# The Official Sony TA-ZH1ES Hi-Res Headphone Amplifier (Live From IFA 2016)



## thatonenoob

​  ​ *The Sony TA-ZH1ES Hi-Res Headphone Amplifier*​ *A Brand New*​  
  
*A Table of Contents*​  *1. Design/ Philosophy Notes *(Directly Below)​ *2. **Transcription of Technical Interview* (Internal Link)​ *3. General Impressions By This Author *(Coming)​ *4. General Impressions by Other Members* (Coming)​ *5. Event and Release Videos *(Internal Link)​   
​  
 ​ *Links To Related Thread*​  *MDR-Z1R ​**| ​**NW-WM1Z DAP*​  *An Introduction From The Ground ​*  
  Hello all!  It’s thatonenoob here, A little while back, the Sony Singapore Team reached out to me, saying that they had a rather interesting proposition.  I figured that it was probably going to be something along the lines of a new product release, and was naturally quite curious.  A couple of calls and a few emails later, and I found myself booked for a flight to the 2016 IFA in Berlin.   As it is now slightly past 1:15 PM here in Berlin on September 1st, I’m finally able to discuss in an official capacity the immensely exciting new Sony Hi-Res lineup. I know there’s already been some “info” that has arrived beforehand from a Chinese (?) source, but by nature of things I won’t be commenting on that channel.  Rest assured though, everything you see here is official, so speculation begone!   
  
 Currently, the atmosphere here at the press conference is hectic and filled with a great deal of excitement, and in the coming hours I will be posting all my impressions, photos, and videos right here in this thread.  In short, I will be bringing the Sony experience directly to y’all Head-Fi’ers.  Stay tuned.  Also, if you have questions, *just let me know below*, and if it can't already be answered I will try my best to make sure they do.
  
*ETA to Next Update*
  
 I'll be rolling in updates as we go along.  I will eventually be posting the bulk of the the photos and videos in the *coming day*, and will be updating the threads as soon as I can.  Also, if you have questions, *just let me know below*, and if it can't already be answered I will try my best to make sure they do.
  
*USD Prices (Projected For Asia)​*  
 WM1Z - 3199
 WM1A - 1199
 ZH1ES - 2199
 Z1R - 2199
 1000X - 399
  
*Specifications*​  
 *Model Name*
 *TA-ZH1ES Hi-Res Audio Headphone Amplifier*
 _Hi-Res Audio_
 Yes
 _Power Output(32Ω, 1kHz, 1% Distortion)_
 Balanced Connection: 1200mW + 1200mW Unbalanced Connection: 300mW + 300mW
 _Output Impedance_
 8-600Ω
 _Frequency Characteristics_
 4-80,000Hz(-3dB)
 _Gain Switch _
 Yes (High/Low)
 _Headphone Jack_
 Balanced standard (4.4 mm in diameter), 3-pole mini (balanced connection, 3.5 mm in diameter) × 2, XLR4 (balanced 4-pin), Standard (6.3 mm in diameter), Stereo mini (3.5 mm in diameter)
 _Audio Inputs_
 Walkman®/Xperia input, USB-B input, Coaxial input, Optical input, Line Input
 _Supported Sampling Frequencies/Bit_
 PCM: Up to 768kHz /32bit DSD: Up to 22.4 MHz
 _Sound Enhancements_
 DSEE HX™, DSD Remastering Engine, DC Phase Linearizer, LR Balance Adjust
 _Dimensions (WxHxD)_
 Approx. 210 x 65 x 314mm
 _Weight_
 Approx. 4,400g

  

*Design/ Philosophy*​   
*Key Features*
  There's several key aspects of the DAP:

DA Hybrid Amplifier Circuit w/ enhanced S-Master HX Technology
Advanced signal processing technology through further development of DSEE HX and DSD Remastering Engine 
Vibration Reduced Chassis
4.4 mm Balanced Connection
 
  
​


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## thatonenoob

*Technical Interview*​  Our extremely interesting technical interview with the Sony Engineers.  It's got quite a bit of everything, and I've more or less kept track of the conversation via a numbered list of captions.  We had some issues with the translation, and I think I will elaborate more.  Some of the initial concern was that the press info was not as technical as some may have liked. We also didn't have a technical ready translator on hand (i.e. engineer trained etc.) Last, it was rapid fire style as we did not have all that much time. To me, it was still informative, and despite not being too smooth something I'd still like to share.
  
 ​


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## thatonenoob

*Member Impressions/ Reviews*​  Here I will try to compile impressions/ reviews from members as well as external sources.  Feel free to just drop me a PM if you would like to be linked to in this section.  I sometimes have difficulty keeping up with all the thread posts.  Thanks!
  

*Phileweb Review *_by Tadashi Yamanouchi​ (in Japanese)_
*Official Sony Japan Interview *_with __Tsunoda, Inayama, and Sato (sorry, this is what I got from Gtranslate)_
  
*Event and Release Videos*​  The Official Sony Press Video for the TA-ZH1ES.​  ​  ​


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## cthomas

I think all those outputs are overkill. Would've been nice if it had somewhere to connect a pair if speakers too, like the uda-1 but with a lot more power.


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## deafdoorknob

[VIDEO]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_PrU4uEw2GM&itct=CA8QpDAYAyITCPCz8J-g7s4CFREffwod_0kBNzIGcmVsbWZ1SL-jtamw1sCc9gE%3D
[/VIDEO]

publicity video with its chief engineer


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## NPWS

it's supposed to be desktop amp, am I right? or transportable just like the size of bakoon amp HDA 5520


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## AxelCloris

I am very interested in this system and unfortunately it looks like all of the discussion is over the new DAPs and closed headphone. I've been looking for a system that uses the 4.4mm connector Sony announced at RMAF two years ago and it's finally here. Huzzah!


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## Deftone

it uses an FPGA that surprised me alot


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## deafdoorknob

exhibition floor coverage in Japanese 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D925bDIkqa4


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## deafdoorknob

kinda sad that Sony managed to make a desktop amp "sexay" and yet its siblings are getting all the attention lol.


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## fb24601

What is the dac inside?


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## XERO1

fb24601 said:


> WTH is a $21XX+ dac amp without dac chip?


 
  
 Huh?!?


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## fb24601

xero1 said:


> Huh?!?


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## XERO1

Quote:


fb24601 said:


> S-Master, refer to 1st floor


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## fb24601

xero1 said:


>


 

 okay S-Master is for DAP, the dac chip inside TA-ZH1ES is not known yet


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## purk

I thought this is a hybrid digital/analog amp.


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## thatonenoob

purk said:


> I thought this is a hybrid digital/analog amp.


 
 It is.   D w/ error correction from an analog A amp.


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## XERO1

thatonenoob said:


> It is.  D w/ error correction from an analog A amp.


 
  
 I assume you mean _Class_-D and _Class_-A.
  
 If so, this sounds similar to how the Divialet amplifies work, except in reverse.
  
 Very interesting....


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## thatonenoob

xero1 said:


> I assume you mean _Class_-D and _Class_-A.
> 
> If so, this sounds similar to how the Divialet amplifies work, except in reverse.
> 
> Very interesting....


 
 EDIT 2: Yea digital Class-D, w/ analog element correction in the form of the Class-A.  Geez it's getting late.


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## XERO1

thatonenoob said:


> Correction I'm getting mixed up lemme see.  It's getting really late now lol/


 
  
 Get some sleep, bro. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Great job so far.  Thanks again.


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## thatonenoob

fb24601 said:


> okay S-Master is for DAP, the dac chip inside TA-ZH1ES is not known yet


 
 DSD --> DSD remastering engine --> S-Master HX --> Amp section
  
 We're trying to figure out what the S-Master does exactly.


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## XERO1

Quote:


thatonenoob said:


> DSD --> DSD remastering engine --> S-Master HX --> Amp section
> 
> We're trying to figure out what the S-Master does exactly.


 

  
_The world may never know...._


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## deafdoorknob

S-Master HX

"Sony's digital amplifier technology, uniquely developed for Hi-Resolution Audio to reduce distortion and noise at wider frequency ranges. Because S-Master amplifies digital signals directly – rather than converting them to analogue signals first – it maintains the purity of the original signal for more faithful reproduction." - Sony FAQ

technical deets on the tech pages 4-15
https://docs.sony.com/release/ES_STR_05_Final.pdf

seems to be a digital "gain" stage (or more likely attenuation stage) driving an analogue output stage (mosfet?)


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## Deftone

Its the secret sauce indeed


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## fb24601

They used burr brown 1795 in their uda-1 before


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## purk

thatonenoob said:


> It is.   D w/ error correction from an analog A amp.


 
 I don't really understand why you need an analog A amp correction unless you feeding an analog signal.  I have the Audio-Technica DHA-3000.  That amp, released in 2002, is a pure digital headphone amplifier.  It is a great look unit too.


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## thatonenoob

purk said:


> I don't really understand why you need an analog A amp correction unless you feeding an analog signal.  I have the Audio-Technica DHA-3000.  That amp, released in 2002, is a pure digital headphone amplifier.  It is a great look unit too.


 
 Let me try and pull up the diagram later...
  
 On a related note, here's our technical interview.


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## Whitigir

Look like there is some AKM inside

http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/audio-components/ta-zh1es


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## musicdragoon

From sony china the close up images show an Altera cyclone IV FPGA, and two analog device ADSP 21488, seems the S master HX and DSD remaster engine are implemented in the FPGA that also handle the decode of source audio format, and the DSP handle further audio processing. Chord also used FPGA to implement their own decoder in mojo, which also have no on the shelf DAC chips on board.


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## musicdragoon

http://www.phileweb.com/interview/article/201609/03/398.html
Japan phile web had published a more detailed report


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## Deftone

Any pricing on this one?


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## cthomas

deftone said:


> Any pricing on this one?




Yep, around $2k


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## Kitkatqualia

musicdragoon said:


> From sony china the close up images show an Altera cyclone IV FPGA, and two analog device ADSP 21488, seems the S master HX and DSD remaster engine are implemented in the FPGA that also handle the decode of source audio format, and the DSP handle further audio processing. Chord also used FPGA to implement their own decoder in mojo, which also have no on the shelf DAC chips on board.


 
  
 Altera cyclone IV FPGA, Do you have the image is where Sony China site?
 I looked for, but could only be found only ADSP 21488.

 Could you tell me the URL if it is good?


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## deafdoorknob

kitkatqualia said:


> Could you tell me the URL if it is good?




http://www.sony.com.hk/en/electronics/audio-components/ta-zh1es


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## Kitkatqualia

deafdoorknob said:


> http://www.sony.com.hk/en/electronics/audio-components/ta-zh1es


 
  
 Thank you.
  
 Altera until the cyclone has been able to confirm.
 Until later model number could not be read.
 Confirmed by high-quality video on youtube was not possible.

 How did it been identified as IV doing?


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## musicdragoon

kitkatqualia said:


> Altera cyclone IV FPGA, Do you have the image is where Sony China site




http://www.sonystyle.com.cn/products/hifi_component/ta_zh1es.htm?ssid=signature_top_zh1es

Just scroll down and look for picture with FPGA wording

All other sony sites not show much about the chips used, except the FM4 MCU


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## thatonenoob

Pricing USD

WM1Z 3199 
WM1A 1199 
ZH1ES 2199 
Z1R 2199 
1000X 399


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## thatonenoob

To update that was the USD price for Asia.


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## bmichels

*Any listening impression yet ?*   SONY's video made me curious about how it sound....


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## Deftone

i feel like this amp dac combo wont get much love here
  
 people are already favouring the new walkman and Z1R instead


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## thatonenoob

deftone said:


> i feel like this amp dac combo wont get much love here
> 
> people are already favouring the new walkman and Z1R instead


 
 It's hard to say, but it does indeed seem that way.  Perhaps it's because DAPs and the transportable scene is currently the "in" thing.


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## yakkosmurf

It happens this way when a company branches out into a new product.  Sony fans on Head-Fi now are used to using portable products.  It's going to take a while for a new fan base to form for the TA-ZH1ES.  People who use desktop headphone amps don't have Sony on their radar necessarily.  Sony fans, aren't used to using a desktop unit.  Give it time.
  
 I do agree, that it's a shame people aren't paying more attention.  I have a ZX1 Walkman and a pair of Z7 headphones that I love.  I've been debating the purchase of a PHA3. I currently have my setup in my office, and I exclusively use it at my desk. I have no plans to use the PHA3 as a portable unit, so I'm curious to see how good the ZH1ES is when the reviews come out. I want to see how my Z7 headphones open up on a balanced amp before deciding a need a new pair.  Others on this site are taking a different path, which is okay.


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## Whitigir

It comes with a remote


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## thatonenoob

whitigir said:


> It comes with a remote




I'm sold. I love remotes and volume pots...it turns by the power of science!


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## phonomat

Haha, I love that as well! Always reminds me of those self-playing pianos. Magic is real!


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## Deftone

Im guessing the FPGA is responsible for the upscaling to DSD as someone mentioned the Dac(s)? is Asahi Kasei.


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## deafdoorknob

first Japanese (p)review is up

http://www.phileweb.com/sp/review/article/201609/09/2220.html


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## thatonenoob

deafdoorknob said:


> first Japanese (p)review is up
> 
> http://www.phileweb.com/sp/review/article/201609/09/2220.html




Thanks for sharing. Rich text editor is down and will definitely update OPost when it's back up.


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## thatonenoob

Okay rich text back up and OP updated.


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## musicdragoon

China official site renewed a bit, the FPGA picture had been removed, but now the replaced picture stated the AKM chip is an ADC, for convert the analog input.

And the Japanese review seems very positive.


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## thatonenoob

musicdragoon said:


> China official site renewed a bit, the FPGA picture had been removed, but now the replaced picture stated the AKM chip is an ADC, for convert the analog input.
> 
> And the Japanese review seems very positive.




Interesting..thanks for sharing!


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## musicdragoon

http://www.sony.jp/audio/special/interview/ZH1ES/
New Japan official intervew between Sony managers and Japanese audio critic, showed the FPGA chip again


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## thatonenoob

musicdragoon said:


> http://www.sony.jp/audio/special/interview/ZH1ES/
> New Japan official intervew between Sony managers and Japanese audio critic, showed the FPGA chip again


 
 Yup, some parts certainly didn't quite translate that well but it was definitely still an interesting read.  Linked!


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## imac2much

Anyone know if it will be easy to use the ZH1ES with either 110 or 220 voltage inputs?  I think the spec sheet says it's only 220-240V, but I thought most Sony products accept universal voltage.


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## thatonenoob

imac2much said:


> Anyone know if it will be easy to use the ZH1ES with either 110 or 220 voltage inputs?  I think the spec sheet says it's only 220-240V, but I thought most Sony products accept universal voltage.


 
 If it doesn't accept universal, then I would suppose the voltage is region dependent (i.e. TA-ZH1ES for US is 110 etc.)   Shouldn't be an issue I think.


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## imac2much

I prefer universal voltages since I travel between the US and China every year and I don't like having to use a big transformer for something like a headphone amp.  I use an HA-1 right now which is compatible with all voltages so I really hoped the Sony amp would do the same.


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## thatonenoob

imac2much said:


> I prefer universal voltages since I travel between the US and China every year and I don't like having to use a big transformer for something like a headphone amp.  I use an HA-1 right now which is compatible with all voltages so I really hoped the Sony amp would do the same.




I understand m8. Been looking into getting a transformer myself for the US w/ 220 v audio gear. Any recommendations perchance?


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## Gibraltar

Since the transformer is internal on this unit it will most likely be single voltage only, per the usual Sony practice for home amps. 

Aside from cost concerns Sony tries their best to discourage grey market imports (similar to the DAPs/digital cameras where they only put Japanese UI on the JDM models)


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## The Fed

Sony amp is pretty sexy.... Expensive, but sexy.
 The whole release is pretty stunning.
  
 Originally I bugged out at the $2199 asking price for the deck, but then realized (glass houses) I've got that much + in my Luxman amp and a Stello deck around 2/3 it's price sitting in my office and the Stello deck doesn't have nearly as serious a converter.
  
 So maybe not so absurd. Especially when Sony engineering gets taken into account.
  
 Sony TOTL models are ruthlessly perfect in their product execution.
 I wish we still had a Sony store in Costa Mesa.... Damnit!


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## Whitigir

What ? I haven't seen it mentioned the amp have any glasses inside it ?


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## The Fed

Oh BTW.... ACUPWR makes some pretty good Step Up/ Down trafos.... My Luxman is made in/ for Japanese market so I bought a 500 watt step down. Small enough to travel here to there, but stout enough that it gives me some peace of mind that a $40 Amazon unit won't provide.


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## BambiV

Interested in in this DAP... Especially the amp part. 
 How can we have a chance to audit?
 Feels it's hard to have a chance in southeastern part.


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## purk

bambiv said:


> Interested in in this DAP... Especially the amp part.
> How can we have a chance to audit?
> Feels it's hard to have a chance in southeastern part.




I am sure Magnolia Hifi will carry it. They have zx2, z7 as well as the HAP-Z1ES and TA-1AES.


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## BambiV

purk said:


> I am sure Magnolia Hifi will carry it. They have zx2, z7 as well as the HAP-Z1ES and TA-1AES.


 
 Did you mean the Magnolia Home Theater? Any of them works?
 I'll be very appreciated if you can send me an address... Seems that we are in the same area.
 Thanks!


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## Gibraltar

After reading up on the architecture of the amp (S-Master), it looks like the analogue input is converted to digital and then back to analog again. Does anyone have experience using an S-Mater equipped amp with analog signals? Wondering what sort of impact this has on sound quality.
  
 I expect the existing DAC in my home system will outperform the Sony so I would use the analog inputs, and I don't really want to deal with different USB DACs for speakers and headphones anyway.
  
 But I still want this amp


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## purk

gibraltar said:


> After reading up on the architecture of the amp (S-Master), it looks like the analogue input is converted to digital and then back to analog again. Does anyone have experience using an S-Mater equipped amp with analog signals? Wondering what sort of impact this has on sound quality.
> 
> I expect the existing DAC in my home system will outperform the Sony so I would use the analog inputs, and I don't really want to deal with different USB DACs for speakers and headphones anyway.
> 
> But I still want this amp




Yes I have and it doesn't sound as good as digital input. I once ran an analog output from my modified Sony dvd-9100es into my STR-DA9000es and it was clearly a step down in term of fidelity compared to digital input. The 9100es does sound quite good by itself though.


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## Whitigir

purk said:


> Yes I have and it doesn't sound as good as digital input. I once ran an analog input from my modified Sony dvd-9100es into my STR-DA9000es and it was clearly a step down in term of fidelity compared to digital input. The 9100es does sound quite good too.




Thanks for the experiences, Purk.

In another sense, this amp is recommended using as Digital input only ? . That would be one function short eh ?


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## XERO1

bambiv said:


> Did you mean the Magnolia Home Theater? Any of them works?
> I'll be very appreciated if you can send me an address... Seems that we are in the same area.
> Thanks!


 
  
 There are 2 kinds of Best Buy-Magnolia stores.
  
 The more common ones are called Magnolia Home Theater.  They sell mainly mid-fi crap.
  
 Then there are what's called the Magnolia Design Center.  They have all the higher end products, but there are only a few of them around.


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## BambiV

xero1 said:


> There are 2 kinds of Best Buy-Magnolia stores.
> 
> The more common ones are called Magnolia Home Theater.  They sell mainly mid-fi crap.
> 
> Then there are what's called the Magnolia Design Center.  They have all the higher end products, but there are only a few of them around.


 
 Thanks for your info! I might visit one of them during the weekend!


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## purk

bambiv said:


> Thanks for your info! I might visit one of them during the weekend!


 
 The one at Northpoint sure have some nice stuffs.  Go check it out.  The ZX2 & ZX100 and Z7 are there.  They have Mcintosh headphones amp too.


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## audionewbi

I am thinking of getting this for HD800s, it seems to be good value considering all that it has to offer.


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## thatonenoob

Forgot to repost this from the other threads (sorry folks)...So I've been invited to the Singapore country release event.  I think this will be the last time chance we have to ask the engineers (in this case Mr. Nageno) about these products.  Ladies and gentlemen, time to have your questions answered.  Event will be going on at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel on Oct 1st, 12PM -5PM.  

*PS:** *For any Singaporean Head-Fi'ers who would like to come (and anyone who can make it), please do PM me!


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## Tomasz2D

thatonenoob said:


> Forgot to repost this from the other threads (sorry folks)...So I've been invited to the Singapore country release event.  I think this will be the last time chance we have to ask the engineers (in this case Mr. Nageno) about these products.  Ladies and gentlemen, time to have your questions answered.  Event will be going on at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel on Oct 1st, 12PM -5PM.


 
  
 OK, my questions. TA-ZH1ES has two USB ports, one at the back (USB-B) and one at the side (microUSB labeled Walkman). And now:
 1. Can we use both ports for mobile devices?
 2. Can non-Sony Android and iOS mobile devices be connected?
 3. Is powered USB hub required for mobile devices?
 4. Is OTG cable required for Android devices and CCK cable for iOS devices?
 5. Is simultaneous mobile device charging possible from USB port?
 Additionaly:
 1. Can two pairs of headphones be used at the same time?


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## Sanlitun

The Shenzen Audio Facebook has some nice pics of this, including a disassembled view:
  
 https://www.facebook.com/audiofans?hc_ref=NEWSFEED
  
 I certainly want to hear more about this unit.


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## Leviticus

Does the ampifier do native DSD? I'm considering to buy this amp instead of a WM Walkman. The sound quality should be much better, right? Especially when I use the ZX2 as a digital source.


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## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> Does the ampifier do native DSD? I'm considering to buy this amp instead of a WM Walkman. The sound quality should be much better, right? Especially when I use the ZX2 as a digital source.




Should be, and it does native DSD and also upconverted anything into DSD


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## Aida

Does anyone know the Australian release date for this? Or pricing for aus stock?


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## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> Should be, and it does native DSD and also upconverted anything into DSD


 
  
 That sounds quite interesting. Sony was the first company to upconvert lossy and lossless files into 24-bit tracks, and now they've taken this technology to the next level.


aida said:


> Does anyone know the Australian release date for this? Or pricing for aus stock


 
  
 Has Sony ever hinted as to when the amplifier will be released in Asia?


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## Gibraltar

leviticus said:


> That sounds quite interesting. Sony was the first company to upconvert lossy and lossless files into 24-bit tracks, and now they've taken this technology to the next level.
> 
> Has Sony ever hinted as to when the amplifier will be released in Asia?


 
  
 Japan is October 29th along with the headphones and Walkmans. Hopefully it will release at the same time as the other products in the rest of Asia too.


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## thanatosguan

leviticus said:


> Does the ampifier do native DSD? I'm considering to buy this amp instead of a WM Walkman. The sound quality should be much better, right? Especially when I use the ZX2 as a digital source.


 
 This amp should also charge the Walkman / Xperia device when using them as transport. Which means it'd be a perfect match for you.
  
 I'm considering this too because a DAC/amp is what fits my needs. Can't be bothered with two blocks(DAC + amp) of metal sitting on top of my desk.


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## Whitigir

Review from Hongkong. Surprisingly the reviewer seems to be praising the WM1Z sound quality as it is real value of money

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//unwire.hk/2016/09/30/sony-ta-zh1es/review-2/


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## thanatosguan

whitigir said:


> Review from Hongkong. Surprisingly the reviewer seems to be praising the WM1Z sound quality as it is real value of money
> 
> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//unwire.hk/2016/09/30/sony-ta-zh1es/review-2/


 
 No they just said WM1Z is a bit too gooey (too warm), when driving the Z1R and WM1A is a bit too neutral.
  
 They also tested Philips Fidelio X2 and Oppo PM3 from the 6.5 and 3.5 unbalanced output and enjoyed them. It'd be very nice of Sony to not cripple the unbalanced output.
  
 It's not an audiophile site so I'd say this is like those Cnet reviews: "this amp is expensive and it sounds good"
  
 At least it's not one of those reviews that suggest ZH1ES is not driving Z1R well... if a co-developed synergy amp is not driving Z1R well then I don't know what will.


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## audionewbi

I personally look forward to pairing it with HD800s, the sony own headphone appears to be in lust to be paired with a SABRE based than anything.


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## purk

audionewbi said:


> I personally look forward to pairing it with HD800s, the sony own headphone appears to be in lust to be paired with a SABRE based than anything.


 
 If you have HD800s, you should pair with something else I think.  I can't second ECP audio DSHA-2 high enough.  The ZH1ES is after all likely a companion amplifier to the Z1R so its tonal balanced may not work out with something like the HD800s.


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## Revogamer

aida said:


> Does anyone know the Australian release date for this? Or pricing for aus stock?




$2899 for the price in Australia, no eta quite yet but there on order


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## beowulf

Couldn't find prices for the UK.
  
 The MDR-Z1R was launched there substantially cheaper than in the other EU countries (around 2000e instead of 2200). So I'm wondering if the same will happen with this amp.


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## thanatosguan

beowulf said:


> Couldn't find prices for the UK.
> 
> The MDR-Z1R was launched there substantially cheaper than in the other EU countries (around 2000e instead of 2200). So I'm wondering if the same will happen with this amp.


 
 Z1R and ZH1ES bundle costs about 4194 USD in China, and Sony also throws in a MUC-B20SB1(cost about 250USD?) if you order now ;p
  
 Guess we're getting a good deal.


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## beowulf

thanatosguan said:


> Z1R and ZH1ES bundle costs about 4194 USD in China, and Sony also throws in a MUC-B20SB1(cost about 250USD?) if you order now ;p
> 
> Guess we're getting a good deal.


 

 That's not a bad deal because of the cable.
  
 I got the Z1R for 1900 EUR ($2089) and it was the cheapest I could find. Given the high sales tax in Europe, it's hard to find better.
 The TA-ZH1ES I haven't seen on sale yet, but I doubt it will cost less than 2000 at best, so 4090 EUR ($4500) is probably as low as it will go here, with zero freebies.


----------



## thanatosguan

beowulf said:


> That's not a bad deal because of the cable.
> 
> I got the Z1R for 1900 EUR ($2089) and it was the cheapest I could find. Given the high sales tax in Europe, it's hard to find better.
> The TA-ZH1ES I haven't seen on sale yet, but I doubt it will cost less than 2000 at best, so 4090 EUR ($4500) is probably as low as it will go here, with zero freebies.


 
  
 Yes, electronics are often expensive in Europe given the sales tax situation.
  
 I'm not a big believer in amplifier and DACs, unless we're talking about tube rolling ;p I think most amps are powerful enough for headphones, unless we're talking about electrostatics.
  
 ZH1ES has some nice features that I think makes it future proof: ultra-high sample rate PCM & DSD, DSEE HX, FPGA solution and Frame-beam construction.
  
 Some may say all DSPs are bad, but my UDA-1 does wonders with Youtube videos and other compressed formats, so I welcome the addition of DSEE HX to ToTL DAC/Amp models. Unlike ClearAudio, it doesn't create drastic sound signature changes, and DSEE is hardware based.


----------



## beowulf

thanatosguan said:


> Yes, electronics are often expensive in Europe given the sales tax situation.
> 
> I'm not a big believer in amplifier and DACs, unless we're talking about tube rolling ;p I think most amps are powerful enough for headphones, unless we're talking about electrostatics.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I somewhat agree with you regarding amplifier/DACs, going beyond the point of diminishing returns is usually not for me. I also add burn-in and [most] cabling to the topic. But those views aren't always popular here, obviously, which is normal, you don't go preach veganism at barbecue restaurant. 
  
 The TA-ZH1ES seems very well built however and the specs are nice. I can see it being something to age well and like you said be reasonably future-proof. Don't feel like getting one as I just took a hit with the MDR-Z1R, but will definitely keep an eye on it.
 Most likely the Z1R are very easy to drive anyway.


----------



## tradyblix

I'm not really agreeing with what you folks are saying in the thread, being a PHA-3 owner. A good DAC/amp is everything - and it makes headphones way better than they are without amping. This amp is very special, having all kinds of balanced and unbalanced connections, a hybrid amp design, DSD generation on the fly, DSEE HX which is great on the PHA-3... as soon as it is widely available I'm buying. This is something you can have for 10 years.


----------



## Whitigir

I agree about the part that it can last for 10 years...hell, even longer than that. However, Upscaling features are all gimmicks, and I down vote it. We need more details and info on the unit by the way


----------



## thanatosguan

whitigir said:


> I agree about the part that it can last for 10 years...hell, even longer than that. However, Upscaling features are all gimmicks, and I down vote it. We need more details and info on the unit by the way


 
 True. Sony's gotta stop with their DSD thing. PCM to DSD creates so much quantization noise... Luckily we can turn that off.
  
 I'm more interested in how the D.A. Hybrid circuit would work and its advantages against traditional designs.


----------



## Rob49

Now showing available late November, Sony U.K. for £1.649 ( pre-order. )


----------



## beowulf

rob49 said:


> Now showing available late November, Sony U.K. for £1.649 ( pre-order. )


 
  
 That's 1843 EUR at today's rate. A bit less than the retail 2000 EUR for most of Europe.
 Still a lot of money, at least for my use case, and especially considering how good the MDR-Z1R already sounds with a much cheaper DAC/amp.


----------



## svinaik

Folks, Do the European Amp units have any issue like Volume Cap etc, like it is for the Walkmans ? Sincerely appreciate response. If the units are same as in the US, Would pick up the unit in Europe on my next trip as the prices seems to be getting better in UK (Due to exchange).


----------



## Whitigir

svinaik said:


> Folks, Do the European Amp units have any issue like Volume Cap etc, like it is for the Walkmans ? Sincerely appreciate response. If the units are same as in the US, Would pick up the unit in Europe on my next trip as the prices seems to be getting better in UK (Due to exchange).




It is only capped due to the law for portable devices , I don't think this amp is portable device at all


----------



## svinaik

Hi Whitigir.... Thanks much. That does make sense. Now it is just a matter of finding the reason for the trip 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 Funny how things go in life. UK was probably the most expensive and now with the Brexit induced currency moves, has become cheapest ( at least for the stuff we are interested in ).


----------



## Whitigir

svinaik said:


> Hi Whitigir.... Thanks much. That does make sense. Now it is just a matter of finding the reason for the trip  .
> 
> Funny how things go in life. UK was probably the most expensive and now with the Brexit induced currency moves, has become cheapest ( at least for the stuff we are interested in ).




Do pay attention though, UK uses 220-240 V, we are 110-120 in US


----------



## beowulf

whitigir said:


> Do pay attention though, UK uses 220-240 V, we are 110-120 in US


 
  
 Well pointed. The ZH1ES might be 110-220 due to lack of switch or indications on the back panel, but that's definitely something to check.


----------



## purk

whitigir said:


> Do pay attention though, UK uses 220-240 V, we are 110-120 in US


 
 And in the past, it is very region specific in term of voltage.  Knowing Sony love of using R-Core transformer, I doubt that it has a switching PSU inside.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> And in the past, it is very region specific in term of voltage.  Knowing Sony love of using R-Core transformer, I doubt that it has a switching PSU inside.




I also seriously doubt it too, and Sony also will always stick to their regionals thing. Even, pricing is regional as well...lol. I seriously believe the ES Amp will be Regional


----------



## nanaholic

purk said:


> And in the past, it is very region specific in term of voltage.  Knowing Sony love of using R-Core transformer, I doubt that it has a switching PSU inside.


 
  
 It doesn't. I was reading the spec sheet for Japan and Hong Kong and it says Japan is 100V 50/60Hz only and Hong Kong is 220-240V 50/60Hz. If you live in the states you can safely import a Japanese unit without worrying about voltage differences, but in general it's a hassle without a switching PSU for me and the big reason I ended up giving up on the idea of purchasing one (along with the WM1A).


----------



## tradyblix

Why is this thing not widely available yet, anyone know ? Is it not going to hit the mass market ?


----------



## nanaholic

tradyblix said:


> Why is this thing not widely available yet, anyone know ? Is it not going to hit the mass market ?


 
  
 It's widely available in Asian region, but not many people bought it as most went for the Walkmans instead.  Plus obviously Sony is rolling them out in stages.


----------



## tradyblix

DSEE HX makes a big difference when using a phone with the PHA-3. I never turn it off "Gimmick" or not. 
  
 I can see that with real Hi res on this it would probably not be used. You can't even use it with the PHA-3 when it's in Hi-Res mode. 
  
 But DSD Remastering I am interested in.


----------



## thanatosguan

nanaholic said:


> It's widely available in Asian region, but not many people bought it as most went for the Walkmans instead.  Plus obviously Sony is rolling them out in stages.


 
  I think it's only available for demo. Actual shipping will happen in December?


----------



## nanaholic

thanatosguan said:


> I think it's only available for demo. Actual shipping will happen in December?


 
  
 You can definitely buy them in Japan and Hong Kong now. 
  
 EDIT: someone's already sold theirs to the shops
 https://twitter.com/janpara_jsb/status/794793708084310016


----------



## purk

Still curious when it will be available in the States.


----------



## beowulf

They're now listed at Amazon.co.uk at a painful €1836 in today's brexited exchange rate.
Amazon France and Italy seem confused, listing them for a whopping €3326
 Amazon Germany lists the €1999, which if I'm not mistaken is the MSRP. "Dispatched in 1 to 3 months", although the same happened with the Z1R and they shipped a lot sooner Guess they don't have final dates yet.
  
 I was tempted earlier, but considering there's the possibility of having lost the CD3000 sale (still wondering if it is a scam - a dispute is ongoing at PayPal), perhaps it is better to leave the wallet alone. The winds of luck don't seem to be blowing this way at the moment.


----------



## purk

beowulf said:


> They're now listed at Amazon.co.uk at a painful €1836.
> Amazon France and Italy seem confused, listing them for  €3326
> Amazon Germany lists the €1999, which if I'm not mistaken is the MSRP. "Dispatched in 1 to 3 months", although the same happened with the Z1R and they shipped a lot earlier. Guess they don't have final dates yet.
> 
> I was tempted earlier, but considering there's the possibility of having lost the CD3000 sale (still wondering if it is a scam - a dispute is ongoing at PayPal), perhaps it is better to leave the wallet alone. The winds of luck don't seem to be blowing the right way.


 
 Deweet!


----------



## svinaik

Hi Folks
 can someone from UK please reconfirm what the voltage for the units sold in the UK is. If by any chance it is 110-240, I would like to purchase one right away as the prices in UK are much better than the US.
  
 I checked the sony website and it does mention 220-240V but just in case ....
  
 Sanjay


----------



## Whitigir

svinaik said:


> Hi Folks
> can someone from UK please reconfirm what the voltage for the units sold in the UK is. If by any chance it is 110-240, I would like to purchase one right away as the prices in UK are much better than the US.
> 
> I checked the sony website and it does mention 220-240V but just in case ....
> ...




Nope, it will be regional as Sony love doing that and it will be 220-240


----------



## thanatosguan

Mine has arrived. Will be trying it out later today. Will try out SE846/EX1000/Z1R(Balanced & Unbalanced) on this.
  
 Any feature(non audio quality ones) want to be tested out? I'll see if there are any kinks regarding the DSD Remastering Engine and DSEE HX.


----------



## Whitigir

thanatosguan said:


> Mine has arrived. Will be trying it out later today. Will try out SE846/EX1000/Z1R(Balanced & Unbalanced) on this.
> 
> Any feature(non audio quality ones) want to be tested out? I'll see if there are any kinks regarding the DSD Remastering Engine and DSEE HX.




Any finding at all will help, of course


----------



## thanatosguan

whitigir said:


> Any finding at all will help, of course


 
 Well the volume knob is click-less like the aperture/iris ring on a cinema lens. Volume level is directly shown on the screen and therefore there's no stop when you've reached infinity. This design is a bit idiosyncratic.
  
 Of course the knob magically rotates when you use the remote : )  Always loved this feature.
  
 The gap on the top is see-through. I can foresee serious problems with dusty environment. I don't know why Sony chose to have the amplifier to be so open. Their S-Master HX is pretty energy efficient. That being said, there's still a Class-A amp circuit inside working as error correction to the Class-D amp, maybe that one can get hot. After running the ZH1ES for a while the top plate is a little warm. Very hard to tell since the chassis metal feels like leather... could be just the tactile feedback tricking my brain.
  
 Buttons don't feel nice. Well... it is Sony that we're talking about and I feel like this is the same button mechanism they used for their Alpha cameras... plasticky and hard to tap.
  
 The menu is huge. You can adjust DSEE HX, DSD Remaster Engine, DC Phase Linearizer and various pre-out, L/R balance settings and such.
  
 And you'll need to download Sony's driver for Windows. Otherwise an easy setup.
  
 Overall this thing looks gorgeous. The build quality is impeccable. The weight is very substantial and my only complaint would be the lackluster button tactility. *Did I mention the metal feels like leather? Very nice finish.*
  
 I'll need some more time with the amplifier to talk about the sound since... amp improvements are very subtle.
  
 But it's quite noticeable that a balanced Z1R is on a different level from the single ended unbalanced Z1R. Bass is more detailed, this is probably part Z1R and part ZH1ES.
  
 Don't have any other summit-fi headphone lying around so it'd be tricky to test out the pairings...


----------



## Whitigir

I would say summit fi would be Z1R . Great impression on the amp design, thank you ! Keep us updated


----------



## hifihp

> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Does it have EQ setting?


----------



## hugopua

thanatosguan said:


> Well the volume knob is click-less like the aperture/iris ring on a cinema lens. Volume level is directly shown on the screen and therefore there's no stop when you've reached infinity. This design is a bit idiosyncratic.
> 
> Of course the knob magically rotates when you use the remote : )  Always loved this feature.
> 
> ...




Do you use android phone as a transporter?


----------



## beowulf

thanatosguan said:


> Mine has arrived. Will be trying it out later today. Will try out SE846/EX1000/Z1R(Balanced & Unbalanced) on this.
> 
> Any feature(non audio quality ones) want to be tested out? I'll see if there are any kinks regarding the DSD Remastering Engine and DSEE HX.


 
  
 I'm mostly curious about the behaviour with the Z1R, compared to good mid-fi gear. I've become more and more cable/source agnostic these past years and started hating spending a single $ unless I can hear the difference beyond placebo-range. I'm tempted to try this, but my current cheap stack works fine and well, Sony already ripped me off once with the Z1R pricing (and drop). Don't want to go for the amp unless it is epic.


----------



## thanatosguan

hifihp said:


> Does it have EQ setting?


 
  
 Some sort of EQ, mainly DSPs. "DC Phase Linearization" is Sony's DSP for creating analog-like bass response. And there's the DSEE HX which may or may not be snake oil. And you can do some L/R balance settings. That's about all.
  


hugopua said:


> Do you use android phone as a transporter?


 
  
 No. PC/Mac/iPhone. I do have a Walkman and I can use it as transport. ZH1ES charges the mobile device during playback.
  


beowulf said:


> I'm mostly curious about the behaviour with the Z1R, compared to good mid-fi gear. I've become more and more cable/source agnostic these past years and started hating spending a single $ unless I can hear the difference beyond placebo-range. I'm tempted to try this, but my current cheap stack works fine and well, Sony already ripped me off once with the Z1R pricing (and drop). Don't want to go for the amp unless it is epic.


 
  
 I agree. I mainly went for the 4.4 balanced out and for the all-in-on solution. The chassis is well insulated so there's no noticeable interference when you put other devices(esp smartphone) on top of it. Some amps have trouble with this... which is ridiculous in 2016.


----------



## hugopua

I'm curious my onkyo dp-x1 the possibility to link with ta-zh1es. I'm planning to buy one. No demo at the moment. Do you try usb audio player pro before?


----------



## hugopua

thanatosguan said:


> Some sort of EQ, mainly DSPs. "DC Phase Linearization" is Sony's DSP for creating analog-like bass response. And there's the DSEE HX which may or may not be snake oil. And you can do some L/R balance settings. That's about all.
> 
> 
> No. PC/Mac/iPhone. I do have a Walkman and I can use it as transport. ZH1ES charges the mobile device during playback.
> ...




Hi. May I know what audio player you use in computer to link with ta-zh1es?


----------



## Naim.F.C

Any more impressions on these?


----------



## thanatosguan

hugopua said:


> I'm curious my onkyo dp-x1 the possibility to link with ta-zh1es. I'm planning to buy one. No demo at the moment. Do you try usb audio player pro before?


 
 Not sure. But all Android devices should be able to put out digital signal with OTG USB cable.
  
  


hugopua said:


> Hi. May I know what audio player you use in computer to link with ta-zh1es?


 
  
 Foobar. You can choose ASIO output which is a more direct data stream to the ZH1ES. However generally I don't think the choice of player matters unless the player has some hardcoded DSPs.
  


naim.f.c said:


> Any more impressions on these?


 
  
 Haven't got around to listening with these recently. Sorry.


----------



## Dithyrambes

This is an dac/amp right? I am curious because I really like the Sony sound and if I can have that as a DAC, then I'll think about getting it if it sounds better than Schiit Gumby and above. Its just I prefer the zx2 over the mimby as it catches way more detail.


----------



## Gibraltar

dithyrambes said:


> This is an dac/amp right? I am curious because I really like the Sony sound and if I can have that as a DAC, then I'll think about getting it if it sounds better than Schiit Gumby and above. Its just I prefer the zx2 over the mimby as it catches way more detail.


 
  
 Yes, it's a DAC/amp. It's more specifically a 'digital amp', which is like a DAC that also amplifies, so there is no analog amp following the DAC in the signal path. The downside of this design is that you can't use it as just an amp for an external DAC. It has analog inputs but the signal is converted to DSD before being fed to the digital input. So with an external DAC your signal will go digital -> analog -> digital -> analog, which is not ideal.


----------



## hugopua

I recommend you use raspberry pi 3 Volumio as the music transport.


----------



## Dithyrambes

gibraltar said:


> Yes, it's a DAC/amp. It's more specifically a 'digital amp', which is like a DAC that also amplifies, so there is no analog amp following the DAC in the signal path. The downside of this design is that you can't use it as just an amp for an external DAC. It has analog inputs but the signal is converted to DSD before being fed to the digital input. So with an external DAC your signal will go digital -> analog -> digital -> analog, which is not ideal.


as long as the dac is like the sony zx2, don't see why I would feed another dac to it. I guess can use it as a preamp to studio monitors. Lack of xlr sucks though


----------



## thanatosguan

dithyrambes said:


> as long as the dac is like the sony zx2, don't see why I would feed another dac to it. I guess can use it as a preamp to studio monitors. Lack of xlr sucks though


 
 There is an XLR output.


----------



## Dithyrambes

thanatosguan said:


> There is an XLR output.


 I meant like line out dual xlr. Have to get xlr to dual xlr cable . At the price they are asking, I have no need for the amplication  prob go for another dac


----------



## svinaik

Hi Thatonenoob,
  
 Any reviews coming in for this unit from you ? I am very eager to hear your perspective. Will be in Japan in March and will be looking to buy it, provided your review also supports my presumption...
  
 Best


----------



## oliverfoxx

Does anyone know if the output power for this satisfies HD800S? (XLR-4) Thanks


----------



## Whitigir

oliverfoxx said:


> Does anyone know if the output power for this satisfies HD800S? (XLR-4) Thanks




Should be !


----------



## beowulf

oliverfoxx said:


> Does anyone know if the output power for this satisfies HD800S? (XLR-4) Thanks


 
  
 No reason why it would not. Specs are a lot more interesting than the current equivalent Sennheiser DAC/amp lineup; on paper at least... ears still have to confirm it.


----------



## Lord Mike

the fed said:


> So maybe not so absurd. Especially when Sony engineering gets taken into account.
> 
> Sony TOTL models are ruthlessly perfect in their product execution.


 
 Yup, totally agree. I've always loved the Sony aesthetic.
 I've got a lot of their premium portables, like the DD9, E10, RH1, D55, NW-MS.

 This thing does not disappoint. I'll be buying this on looks alone, it is that amazing when I saw it in the flesh a few weeks ago.
 The perforated metal on top gives off an almost lush-premium leather look.
 And that minimalist led display caps it off perfectly. Great to see Sony still  know how to make things looks so damn cool.


----------



## thanatosguan

lord mike said:


> The perforated metal on top gives off an almost lush-premium leather look.


 
  
 Yes and it feels like leather too. Feels kind of warm when touching it.


----------



## Lord Mike

thanatosguan said:


> Yes and it feels like leather too. Feels kind of warm when touching it.


 
 Which is quite a jolting experience if you're vegan. :-D


----------



## TSAVJason

Hello Headfiers,

US Headfiers only!

We've been shipping these amps all day long. However we appologize for not supporting this thread. 

Authorized Dealers in the US that have all Sony Signature Series products are on the list I'm about to give you. 

The Source AV Torrance CA
Natural Sound Boston MA
Listen Up Denver/Boulder/Colorado Springs CO & Albuquerque NM 
Northern Audio/Music to My Ear Pittsburg PA 

Woo Audio is the only authorized online dealer for Sony Signature Series product. They do have a small inventory of MDR-Z1R headphones.


----------



## Whitigir

Merry Xmas guys, thank to Jason and his staff at "The Source AV". They are awesome dealing and doing business with in real life. I am having the best Xmas ever now, and Jason is Santa  with his Elves staff 


Docked version



Walkman features version. It charges the Walkman from the Walkman port too !


----------



## Rob49

whitigir said:


> Merry Xmas guys, thank to Jason and his staff at "The Source AV". They are awesome dealing and doing business with in real life. I am having the best Xmas ever now, and Jason is Santa
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can't wait to hear your first impressions ! ?


----------



## purk

I have some goodies too!  Of course, many thanks to Jason and Wayne of SoureAV for making this an awesome day.  Sadly I have a bad cold and it will take a few more days before my hearing will return to normal.  
  
 The ZH1ES is just a beautiful product.


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> I have some goodies too!  Of course, many thanks to Jason and Wayne of SoureAV for making this an awesome day.  Sadly I have a bad cold and it will take a few more days before my hearing will return to normal.
> 
> The ZH1ES is just a beautiful product.


 
  
 Lucky you, @purk ! I'm so jealous !!! Enjoy them !!!


----------



## svinaik

Folks, Another happy customer of Jason. Got my TA-ZH1ES on Friday and happy as a kid in Candy store. Plugged in the Z1R to the balanced port and was in musical heaven for 30 minutes.
  
 Last piece in the puzzle will be the walkman but I am not in a hurry for that. ZX2 is serving well for the time being.Will pick up 1A when in Japan in early 2017.
  
 Impressions to come in due course.


----------



## Whitigir

Yes, I can not thank Jason enough as I got my hand on the Amp this early  . Even though it needs burn in and all that good stuff, I can tell that the Amp is the best piece of the signature series. If you had been waiting or wanting a Desktop Amp, do not hesitate


----------



## echineko

whitigir said:


> Yes, I can not thank Jason enough as I got my hand on the Amp this early  . Even though it needs burn in and all that good stuff, *. I can tell that the Amp is the best piece of the signature series*. If you had been waiting or wanting a Desktop Amp, do not hesitate



Bold words, that. And having tried the amp several times now (briefly), I'm certainly curious to hear more. My wallet has much to fear in 2017


----------



## svinaik

Jason & Wayne
  
 You have been wonderful to do business with. Thank you. Enjoying the Amp..
  
 Best


----------



## Newport

Fully agree with Whitigir that the amp is the best component of the Signature series....beautiful piece of equipment. I would rank the headphone 2nd while the last is the DAP. The Signature amp make my Lehmann Audio headphone amp look like a DIY/garage project!


----------



## Whitigir

So, the best for using this Amp and the Walkman would be to use it with the Cradle and an upgraded USB cables. I did a brief comparison between Zx2 as a digital transport into the amp by : Cradle and direct supplied cables.

The amp has a built in feature to charge the Walkman directly out of Walkman port and the supplied cables. However, you will be losing out the goodies from extra processing power and hardware. There is another dongle : WMC-NWH10 but it does not allow the Walkman being charged when connected via USB B in the back...even modified one to Walkman port. It has no hardware built in for that.

Back to these differences. BCR-NWH10

The cradle has many tricks up it sleeve and is a well built, well engineered accessory that can be had for around $150 from Japan: built in OS Capacitors, with separated charging circuitry to supply charge to the Walkman. This allows the signal to be more buffered and kept away from the noises generated by the power lines for charging. We get the best of the purity and integrity of the signals out from the USB port on the cradles. Then the ability to have an upgraded USB cables to additionally preserve and keep this purity/integrity even further. Different wires materials has different colorations and impact here. Copper is more warmth, silver-gold is best, then silver which is faster with better clarity.





I am using Silver/gold USB cables now, and it is awesome. I totally recommend the use of Cradle and upgraded USB cables to get the best out of the Amp.


----------



## onlychild

What is the overall tone of the amp? Warm/musical? Neutral? Bright?

Very interested in picking this up. Thanks


----------



## TSAVJason

onlychild said:


> What is the overall tone of the amp? Warm/musical? Neutral? Bright?
> 
> Very interested in picking this up. Thanks


I find the amp to be warm-musical-detailed ....not neutral-not bright. Linear in tonality and kind to many headphones in compatibility


----------



## Whitigir

tsavjason said:


> I find the amp to be warm-musical-detailed ....not neutral-not bright. Linear in tonality and kind to many headphones in compatibility




I second this


----------



## onlychild

whitigir said:


> I second this




Thanks, I'll be picking one up soon. I feel in love with the tone of the Z1Rs so the zh1es was the next logical choice for someone with no desktop equipment


----------



## Whitigir

onlychild said:


> Thanks, I'll be picking one up soon. I feel in love with the tone of the Z1Rs so the zh1es was the next logical choice for someone with no desktop equipment




Do not hesitate, the ES really is the star of the bunch. Especially if you need a desktop piece ? And for the price, it may be stiff. But think about how expensive other manufacturers are making Desktop gears and selling them for. This amp is an integrated DAC and Headphones amplifier which supports so many balanced output. Having the newest generation of S-Master HX with FPGA architecture. Unique S-Master analogue hybrid design. DSD capability of 22.4 MHz 

DSD remastering engine to upscale and upsampling by Sony unique and proprietary technology in DSD alone, who else can do this or understand it better ? It take all sources input and remaster it when needed. When using this, the tonal body became meaty, more analogue like, smoother, with soundstage being more alive but veiled up some sparkling of trebles extensions, and yet not losing any details. I found it being excellent for using with YouTube and online streaming contents. It helps liven up the soundstage with smoothness and analogue feeling. When using with CD quality or high resolution tracks I keep this features off to enjoy better sparkling in my trebles extensions.

For all that said, I enjoy this DSD remastering feature a great deal 

You can argue that "lost details are lost". I agree, but what I am enjoying more here is because it is more analogue like, the harshness from those sacrificed details for compression are rounded and smoothed out further. It makes the experiences of listening from online and compressed contents a much better enjoyment. Also, because the harshness is gone, we are able to listen deeper and immerse ourselves easier so the soundstage became lively. No more dead and flat streaming contents or MP3 anymore 

Finally !


----------



## TSAVJason

onlychild said:


> Thanks, I'll be picking one up soon. I feel in love with the tone of the Z1Rs so the zh1es was the next logical choice for someone with no desktop equipment


You won't be bummed if you get one. I don't think we've sold more than 16. So far all the new owners are raving about it.


----------



## Dithyrambes

So you can say this amp is an extension of the WM1Z, but performing even better because its a desktop unit, with a better amp.


----------



## Whitigir

dithyrambes said:


> So you can say this amp is an extension of the WM1Z, but performing even better because its a desktop unit, with a better amp.




No, lol .... they don't sound similar at all. I call them being Warmth because they are more analogue like than digital like. 1Z has more warmth, and the 1Z is out performed by the amp very obviously.


----------



## Whitigir

Some very serious love for him


----------



## EDN80

purk said:


> I have some goodies too!  Of course, many thanks to Jason and Wayne of SoureAV for making this an awesome day.  Sadly I have a bad cold and it will take a few more days before my hearing will return to normal.
> 
> The ZH1ES is just a beautiful product.


 
  
 I see that you also have the OPPO HA-1. I use it as a DAC for my SPL Phonitor 2, but wonder if I should upgrade to the TA-ZH1ES instead, seeing as I love my Z1R. Looking forwarrd to first impressions and wonder how different they sound....


----------



## Whitigir

edn80 said:


> I see that you also have the OPPO HA-1. I use it as a DAC for my SPL Phonitor 2, but wonder if I should upgrade to the TA-ZH1ES instead, seeing as I love my Z1R. Looking forwarrd to first impressions and wonder how different they sound....





Excuse me to chime-in for your question

HA1 is not in the same class of TA. If you are looking to upgrades ? Your above question would be answered by me "Yes, Defintely". Even though I still need burn-in that I can not give you details impression, but out of the box and the TA is obviously superior to HA1

HA1 has Bluetooth capability and TA doesn't have that. It has DSD remastering engine instead


----------



## EDN80

whitigir said:


> Excuse me to chime-in for your question
> 
> HA1 is not in the same class of TA. If you are looking to upgrades ? Your above question would be answered by me "Yes, Defintely". Even though I still need burn-in that I can not give you details impression, but out of the box and the TA is obviously superior to HA1
> 
> HA1 has Bluetooth capability and TA doesn't have that. It has DSD remastering engine instead


 
  
 Thanks for that! It looks so beautiful and if the sound matches... it looks like this might be my next purchase.


----------



## svinaik

whitigir said:


> I second this


 
  
  


tsavjason said:


> I find the amp to be warm-musical-detailed ....not neutral-not bright. Linear in tonality and kind to many headphones in compatibility


 

 I absolutely third that. After auditioning the signature series in Japan In October, I had no doubt that Amp, Headphones & Walkmans are the stars..... in that order. I picked up the Z1R while in Japan as the pricing incentive was sufficient and the fact that I could buy one in Japan versus not knowing when they will show up in the USA.
  
 My second purchase was the amp from Jason.
  
 Upscaling is enough reason to buy one but the quality / quantity of amplifier section is just a cream on top. Have used both Z1R & Oppo PM1 with TA and they both sound outstanding... of course in that order as well.
  
 Will wait for the 1A to spread the dollars and love over time. I made a decision to buy the 1A as total spend over the 1A & TA versus buying the 1Z was one of the equation that I had to solve earlier on.
  
 All great choices and options. Whatever works for your budget and taste...


----------



## imalter

Is it possible to connect two headphone sets to different outputs, or only one output at a time is active?


----------



## thanatosguan

imalter said:


> Is it possible to connect two headphone sets to different outputs, or only one output at a time is active?


 
  
 One output at a time. You can plug them in and switch output if you're switching headphones frequently. But no simultaneous output.


----------



## Kamil21

*Question for TA owners*

I'm wondering if it is possible to use the internal Analog to Digital converter in this unit to transfer my vinyl and store it in digital on a 1A, or any other such device? 

I know that there is an analog rca input on the TA for listening, but can these be simultaneously recorded/stored?

Thanks!


----------



## svinaik

Only one output can be active


----------



## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> So, the best for using this Amp and the Walkman would be to use it with the Cradle and an upgraded USB cables. I did a brief comparison between Zx2 as a digital transport into the amp by : Cradle and direct supplied cables.
> 
> The amp has a built in feature to charge the Walkman directly out of Walkman port and the supplied cables. However, you will be losing out the goodies from extra processing power and hardware. There is another dongle : WMC-NWH10 but it does not allow the Walkman being charged when connected via USB B in the back...even modified one to Walkman port. It has no hardware built in for that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Where would I get such an upgraded USB cable?


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> Where would I get such an upgraded USB cable?




There are many places that offer USB cables , Pangea ? Audio quest ? After market custom ? Etc ...


----------



## Newport

The one active output at a time is a desired safety feature in my view. This is to avoid potential headphone driver damage from connecting two or more headphones with large differences in sensitivity. The one active output feature also applies to the preamp output (when the preamp output is active, all the headphone outputs are off…and vice versa). 
 
I noticed also there is no difference in sound level (for a given volume setting) between balanced and unbalanced headphone outputs which is a nice feature. On the PHA-3 portable dac/amp, there is about 6dB difference between balanced & unbalanced.


----------



## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> There are many places that offer USB cables
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 And what cable am I looking for exactly when I have a cradle for my Walkman?
  
 The desktop amp doesn't seem to have a 'normal' USB jack, so guess I need a cable that fits the following jacks:

  

  
 Is that correct?


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> And what cable am I looking for exactly when I have a cradle for my Walkman?
> 
> The desktop amp doesn't seem to have a 'normal' USB jack, so guess I need a cable that fits the following jacks:
> 
> ...




No, just any Type A to type B and you are set. On the back of the TA, there is a USB B port. The picture you captured above is for Walkman only


----------



## highfidelity69

gibraltar said:


> After reading up on the architecture of the amp (S-Master), it looks like the analogue input is converted to digital and then back to analog again. Does anyone have experience using an S-Mater equipped amp with analog signals? Wondering what sort of impact this has on sound quality.
> 
> I expect the existing DAC in my home system will outperform the Sony so I would use the analog inputs, and I don't really want to deal with different USB DACs for speakers and headphones anyway.
> 
> But I still want this amp


 
 I own the ZX2 which is a fantastic portable DAC, when I am at my desk I pair it up to my Burson HA-160 Desktop AMP and it sounds fantastic, I have also connected my Burson HA-160 directly to my MSI Notebook which sports a Sabre DAC "which sounds fantastic", they both sound great with the same material, but the Sony ZX2 with S-Master DAC sounds fuller with richer base and is a bit more controlled, on the other hand the MSI Notebook with the Sabre DAC has a bit more juice "a bit less dialing up on the Burson HA-160", the cans I use are the AKG702, in the end I prefer the Sony ZX2 with the S-Master DAC, I am sure this new TA-ZH1ES will sound fantastic.


----------



## EDN80

TA-ZH1ES Headphone Amplifier Writeup/Overview/Review from Audio Advice
  
https://www.audioadvice.com/content/2016/12/15/sony-ta-zh1es-headphone-amplifier-review/


----------



## starblue

I just got mine today and fired it up few mins back with my MDR Z1R in unbalanced mode. Man oh man, trust me, I am not speaking of new purchase love. This amp is very different than Sony PHA-3, Pioneer XPA-700, Woo Audio WA 6Se and DAP's like DP-X1. EXTREMELY revealing but warm. More impressions to come later...!


----------



## highfidelity69

starblue said:


> I just got mine today and fired it up few mins back with my MDR Z1R in unbalanced mode. Man oh man, trust me, I am not speaking of new purchase love. This amp is very different than Sony PHA-3, Pioneer XPA-700, Woo Audio WA 6Se and DAP's like DP-X1. EXTREMELY revealing but warm. More impressions to come later...!


Congratulations on your new toy, I am sure there is a break in period for this DAC/AMP, what source are you feeding it with. I have a ZX2 connected to my old Burson HA-160. How do you like the Sony cans, let us know how they sound in balanced mode with this new AMP/DAC.


----------



## purk

Mine is burning in as we speak and it is one fine sounding amplifier.  It has roughly about 80 hours so far and it sounds quite gorgeous.  It is very very smooth with wide and deep soundstage with plenty of warmth.  It however lacking some dynamic punch currently compared to some of my other balanced solidstate amplifiers that I have such as the original Headamp GSX, ECP DSHA-2 prototype, and Susy Dynahi.  Thanks for Jason at Source AV for shipping it just in time for the holidays.  I will post my impressions later after the 200 hour burn in period.


----------



## Whitigir

For those of you who wonders still, the TA is regionally locked into Power rating. NA is 120 V, Eu and Asia is 240V. Here is a shot of my NA version


----------



## EDN80

whitigir said:


> For those of you who wonders still, the TA is regionally locked into Power rating. NA is 120 V, Eu and Asia is 240V. Here is a shot of my NA version


 
  
 In other words, no scouring over Amazon UK or elsewhere for a better deal


----------



## Leviticus

edn80 said:


> In other words, no scouring over Amazon UK or elsewhere for a better deal


 

 Unless, of course, you're from Europe where we have harmonised voltages/frequencies. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 About to pull the trigger and order a unit from amazon.uk.
  
 Whitgir: Can you provide some of your impressions? How is the synergy between then ZH1-ZX2-Fostex TH900? Have you been able to test the TH-900 in balanced and unbalanced mode?


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> Unless, of course, you're from Europe where we have harmonised voltages/frequencies.
> 
> About to pull the trigger and order a unit from amazon.uk.
> 
> Whitgir: Can you provide some of your impressions? How is the synergy between then ZH1-ZX2-Fostex TH900? Have you been able to test the TH-900 in balanced and unbalanced mode?




I would love to tell you this...but in order to pull off this Trio, I had to let go oh my 900


----------



## EDN80

leviticus said:


> Unless, of course, you're from Europe where we have harmonised voltages/frequencies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lucky!!!
  


whitigir said:


> I would love to tell you this...but in order to pull off this Trio, I had to let go oh my 900


 
  





 Wasn't that one of your favorites? Must have been quite the sacrifice and the new items must be worth it!


----------



## Whitigir

edn80 said:


> Lucky!!!
> 
> 
> :eek:
> ...




Actually since I love warmth and bass strong headphones ....Z1R is almost perfect to my needs


----------



## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> Actually since I love warmth and bass strong headphones
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You sold your TH-900? Damn, I always liked that we have exactly the same gear. But I guess the TH900 will sound great with the ZH1ES as the amplifier is said to be musical-sounding with emphasis on every detail.
  
 By the way, I recently asked you about the cable I need to connect the cradle to the amplifier, you said I need a TypA-TypB USB cable.
 Are you familiar with Audioquest's TypA-TypB cables and maybe own one? (http://www.audioquest.com/usb-digital-audio/carbon)


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> You sold your TH-900? Damn, I always liked that we have exactly the same gear. But I guess the TH900 will sound great with the ZH1ES as the amplifier is said to be musical-sounding with emphasis on every detail.
> 
> By the way, I recently asked you about the cable I need to connect the cradle to the amplifier, you said I need a TypA-TypB USB cable.
> Are you familiar with Audioquest's TypA-TypB cables and maybe own one? (http://www.audioquest.com/usb-digital-audio/carbon)




I am afraid I never used them to answer you this one either. I had always been using my DIY version


----------



## Zarniwoop76

Hya, received the TA-ZH1ES Amp today. I am using a ZX2 walkman as the source and currently using it with a pair of Shure 846's. (my MDR Z1R arrives on thursday). Sounds awesome to my ears. Sorry I'm not an audiophile so my descriptions might be rubbish - but there is clarity but no harshness and very powerful bass through the Shure's on certain tracks (like 'Gosh' by Jamie XX). Can anybody give me a brief (or long!) summary of what the 'DSD remastering' and 'DSEE HX' functions are supposed to do - and whether (in their opinion) it is better to just switch them off? I am playing some High Res Files but mainly using CD quality 16 bit files streamed from Quboz through the ZX2.
  
 Feel free to buzz me with any questions.


----------



## XERO1

Sony sure seems to have knocked it outta the park with the entire Signature Series lineup.  Can't wait to see what new goodies they have to show at CES next week!


----------



## purk

xero1 said:


> Sony sure seems to have knocked it outta the park with the entire Signature Series lineup.  Can wait to see what new goodies they have to show at CES next week!


 
 The TA-ZH1ES is the star of the show IMO.  As good as the NW-WM1Z, it will always be overpriced based on the sound quality.  The Z1R does sound very nice to my ears but I still prefer the HD800s at this point in time.


----------



## XERO1

purk said:


> The TA-ZH1ES is the star of the show IMO.


 

 ​That's really saying something since the Z1R's are getting rave reviews from just about everyone who has heard them.
  
 I plan on making a trip over to TheSourceAV to hear them both in the near future.


----------



## warrior1975

whitigir said:


> Actually since I love warmth and bass strong headphones ....Z1R is almost perfect to my needs




Can you compare the Th900s to the z1r when you have time? Thanks bro.


----------



## starblue

highfidelity69 said:


> starblue said:
> 
> 
> > I just got mine today and fired it up few mins back with my MDR Z1R in unbalanced mode. Man oh man, trust me, I am not speaking of new purchase love. This amp is very different than Sony PHA-3, Pioneer XPA-700, Woo Audio WA 6Se and DAP's like DP-X1. EXTREMELY revealing but warm. More impressions to come later...!
> ...




Hi mate, let me try to answer your questions
- straight of the box the amp sounded very nice but i am also burning in at the moment. Lets see if the sound characteristic changes
- i have mostly flac and some DSD files. Audirvana on iMac to ZH1ES via USB cable
- i do like the Z1R very much. Its quite warm but equally resolving. I am not sure which one of my recent purchases I like better, Z1R or Pioneer SE Master 1. I haven't tried the latter with ZH1ES yet. Both will stay in my stable though

In general, I had very little time with this Amp yesterday. Initially I started it in basic mode with both DSEE HX and DSD upscaling turned off as I wanted to observe sonic differences progressively. Even with both turned off and with Z1R plugged in unbalanced, the amp/headphone combo sounded extremely nice.

Now it might be just my sonic perception and it may not be correct or change with time (burn in) but I found that turning *off* *ON* DSD upscaling of DSEE engine adds a bit of brightness to the sound. The addition was very subtle but unless my ears were betraying me completely, it was there. To reiterate it was very very subtle. Mind you I have very sensitive ears when it comes to brightness.

If above is true and doesnt change with time then likes of ZH1ES + Fostex TH900 will turn out to be an interesting combo to watch. I have the TH900 in balanced mode and will test it out this weekend. From experience, while I enjoy the TH900, it can show its brightness spikes with some recordings due to which they are not my 'go to' headphones. Same for LCD XC which deviated from the typical dark Audeze home signature that I love, keen to see if ZH1ES can mellow it down.

Will post observations as I progress.

EDIT - I noticed a big typo in my post above which I have corrected now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## purk

xero1 said:


> ​That's really saying something since the Z1R's are getting rave reviews from just about everyone who has heard them.
> 
> I plan on making a trip over to TheSourceAV to hear them both in the near future.


 
 Don't forget to leave your credit cards at home.  You will find ways to buy it after you hearing and looking at it.    Highly recommended buying from Jason @ TheSource AV.


----------



## starblue

starblue said:


> Now it might be just my sonic perception and it may not be correct or change with time (burn in) but I found that turning *off* *ON* DSD upscaling of DSEE engine adds a bit of brightness to the sound. The addition was very subtle but unless my ears were betraying me completely, it was there. To reiterate it was very very subtle. Mind you I have very sensitive ears when it comes to brightness.


 
 I take this back. Mine has been burned in about 24 hours now. Listening to same setup today with some known bright tracks I cant find any noticeable brightness jump when switching on DSEE HK and/or DSD upscaling. If at all, the highs sound a bit more controlled from yesterday. Paired with Z1R, this amp pumps in tons of bass!
  
 I will test out with TH900 nonetheless.


----------



## highfidelity69

zarniwoop76 said:


> Hya, received the TA-ZH1ES Amp today. I am using a ZX2 walkman as the source and currently using it with a pair of Shure 846's. (my MDR Z1R arrives on thursday). Sounds awesome to my ears. Sorry I'm not an audiophile so my descriptions might be rubbish - but there is clarity but no harshness and very powerful bass through the Shure's on certain tracks (like 'Gosh' by Jamie XX). Can anybody give me a brief (or long!) summary of what the 'DSD remastering' and 'DSEE HX' functions are supposed to do - and whether (in their opinion) it is better to just switch them off? I am playing some High Res Files but mainly using CD quality 16 bit files streamed from Quboz through the ZX2.
> 
> Feel free to buzz me with any questions.


 go to hdtracks and download some FLAC and DSD files, it will make your CD files sound like MP3's


----------



## Zarniwoop76

highfidelity69 said:


> go to hdtracks and download some FLAC and DSD files, it will make your CD files sound like MP3's


 
  
 Thanks. Just downloaded 24bit FLACs of Nick Caves Skeleton Tree and Leonard Cohens latest (and last) album.
  
 Quick question (and please excuse my ignorance). On the display at the top of the unit the Input is showing as PCM44.1KHZ / 24bit (as you'd expect), but the output on the display shows PCM352.8KHz/32bit.
  
 I've switched off any DSD or DSEE HX scaling etc. Not sure why the output is showing as above? Any ideas? I've connected my Phone via USB to the DAC using the USB Audio Player Pro App on my Samsung. Quality is great by the way as it bypasses the circuitry in the phone itself.


----------



## Whitigir

Nah, smartphone is a lousy source of digital transport. Don't believe all that by-pass myths from smartphone. Why don't you plug in a HDD directly and have the TA do all the job then ? Lol...see my points ?


----------



## purk

highfidelity69 said:


> go to hdtracks and download some FLAC and DSD files, it will make your CD files sound like MP3's


 
 It is all in the mastering of such file.  I'm all for the FLAC & DSD myselfs but a well recorded CD file can sound better than an avg. quality DSD/Hi-Rez Flac.


----------



## Zarniwoop76

whitigir said:


> Nah, smartphone is a lousy source of digital transport. Don't believe all that by-pass myths from smartphone. Why don't you plug in a HDD directly and have the TA do all the job then ? Lol...see my points ?


 

 Thanks. Point noted. I'm still learning. Baby steps


----------



## XERO1

purk said:


> _*It is all in the mastering*_ of such file.  I'm all for the FLAC & DSD myselfs but _*a well recorded CD file can sound better than an avg. quality DSD/Hi-Rez Flac.*_


 
  
 This is a fundamental truth in understanding why most hi-res files sound no better than their CD-res (or even MP3) versions.
  
 If a song is poorly mastered, and the hi-res version uses that same poor sounding master as its source, it will never sound any better than poor.


----------



## highfidelity69

xero1 said:


> This is a fundamental truth in understanding why most hi-res files sound no better than their CD-res (or even MP3) versions.
> 
> If a song is poorly mastered, and the hi-res version uses that same poor sounding master as its source, it will never sound any better than poor.


 
 That is true, but I have not come across any FLAC's yet that sound worse than CD files "might be lucky here", I have come across crappy mastered CD files that is for sure.  
 I use this streaming service for years now http://www.di.fm/   http://www.radiotunes.com/  http://www.jazzradio.com/  http://www.classicalradio.com/ http://www.rockradio.com/ to stream music in 128 AAC on my PC or my ZX2 and any Android ios device "I pay for the premium service which gives you 128 AAC or 320K MP3 and no commercials", they also have apps for the ios and Android app store, in regards to crappy mastering, I have come across this listening to the streaming service, it's not the service but the master of the file.


----------



## nanaholic

highfidelity69 said:


> That is true, but I have not come across any FLAC's yet that sound worse than CD files "might be lucky here", I have come across crappy mastered CD files that is for sure.


 
  
 I have - it's really not that difficult to screw up a hi-res FLAC (just like it's not really that hard to screw up a CD), just dial in enough gain and ignore the volume warnings and some heavy normalization and watch dynamic range go out the window, the results are ugly to say the least.
  
 There's nothing inherently build into hi-res/lossless audio format that makes them automatically better than mp3s, as IT people would say the problem is always the thing that sits between the chair and the keyboard ie the human. Put a bad sound engineer that ignores all common sense practices (like, don't dial in so much volume that the signal clips - that should be common sense!) in the chair and all the best tools/formats won't save a poorly mixed master.


----------



## TSAVJason

nanaholic said:


> I have - it's really not that difficult to screw up a hi-res FLAC (just like it's not really that hard to screw up a CD), just dial in enough gain and ignore the volume warnings and some heavy normalization and watch dynamic range go out the window, the results are ugly to say the least.
> 
> There's nothing inherently build into hi-res/lossless audio format that makes them automatically better than mp3s, as IT people would say the problem is always the thing that sits between the chair and the keyboard ie the human. Put a bad sound engineer that ignores all common sense practices (like, don't dial in so much volume that the signal clips - that should be common sense!) in the chair and all the best tools/formats won't save a poorly mixed master.


There is something inherent in MP3 that causes it to suck. It's called frequency loss.


----------



## nanaholic

tsavjason said:


> There is something inherent in MP3 that causes it to suck. It's call frequency loss.


 
  
 It's not loss if you knowingly filter it out.  It's call science and engineering.  
  
 As a science and engineering person I strongly believe that the human hearing cutoff is measured accurately enough that when applied to things like high bitrate mp3 compression the difference to loosless compression is minimum or near transparent, ergo most studies seems to support that hypothesis anyway, not many (or any) studies has been able to show otherwise that I know of.
  
 The so call "frequency loss" is much MUCH less destructive to sound quality than, say, signal clipping from an overlty hot mix, which are much more easily heard. Instead of the industry pointing fingers at the format which are more than good enough in 99% of the cases, I'd rather they fix their mixing practices.


----------



## TSAVJason

nanaholic said:


> It's not loss if you knowingly filter it out.  It's call science and engineering.
> 
> As a science and engineering person I strongly believe that the human hearing cutoff is measured accurately enough that when applied to things like high bitrate mp3 compression the difference to loosless compression is minimum or near transparent, ergo most studies seems to support that hypothesis anyway, not many (or any) studies has been able to show otherwise that I know of.
> 
> The so call "frequency loss" is much MUCH less destructive to sound quality than, say, signal clipping from an overlty hot mix, which are much more easily heard. Instead of the industry pointing fingers at the format which are more than good enough in 99% of the cases, I'd rather they fix their mixing practices.


Hahaha so let's see if I understand your meaning. Lossless means no loss. And MP3 has no loss because those frequencies (that are now gone in MP3) are deliberately removed, is this what you are saying?

As for a poor mix. There are different processes in which material is mixed. Which part of this are you referring to? Individual track mixing? Production mix? Mastering?


----------



## XERO1

Quote:


tsavjason said:


> As for a poor mix. There are different processes in which material is mixed. Which part of this are you referring to? Individual track mixing? Production mix? Mastering?


  
 Usually, the individual stems, the production mix and the final mix all are properly recorded and mixed by the recording engineers, and are what the musicians hear in the studio with all of the music's full dynamic range still intact.  The worst damage is usually done during the mastering stage, where an excessive amount of additional dynamic compression is applied to the final mix, permanently robbing the mix of the richness and power that the musicians and recording engineers originally captured and intended it to have.  This terrible trend is what is known as The Loudness War, and it has ruined countless recordings.  Although things have started to get a little better, sadly it is still a pretty common practice.


----------



## thanatosguan

nanaholic said:


> Instead of the industry pointing fingers at the format which are more than good enough in 99% of the cases, I'd rather they fix their mixing practices.


 
 It's rather hilarious to see major labels use hi-res FLACs to load their crappy remasterings. Some remastering completely destroys the record into a mess.
  
 If one has live performance experience(preferably acoustic) and has tried to record with recording professionals, one will understand how important mixing is. It's very easy to mess up because of the lengthy workflow and multiple pairs of ears involved.


----------



## nanaholic

tsavjason said:


> Hahaha so let's see if I understand your meaning. Lossless means no loss. And MP3 has no loss because those frequencies (that are now gone in MP3) are deliberately removed, is this what you are saying?


 
  
 The cut-off frequency of mp3 compression is now at 23kHz (with 48kHz sampling - which is considered Hi-res sampling rate), the best human hearing is rated at about 18kHz, so in theory mp3 compression is able to capture all frequencies the human can hear with a bit more headroom.  MP3 uses algorithms to assign which frequencies in the sound it will use more data space to approximate it's volume value, so no frequency that was designed to be captured is technically lost at all - just varying in accuracy in reproduction - the proper term is irreversible compression, but since it's a mouth full people decided that the "lossy" name sticks better.  The so-call "frequency loss" you deliberately worded is not a scientific/engineering term, but rather just made up to make mp3 sound extra bad.


----------



## nanaholic

xero1 said:


>


 
  
 Sadly I can say from experience the loudness war bad mixing practice sometimes rear its ugly head even in Hi-res files.  I have purchased Hi-res Flac files that was mixed even hotter than the CD counterpart. It made me so mad.


----------



## nanaholic

thanatosguan said:


> It's rather hilarious to see major labels use hi-res FLACs to load their crappy remasterings. Some remastering completely destroys the record into a mess.
> 
> If one has live performance experience(preferably acoustic) and has tried to record with recording professionals, one will understand how important mixing is. It's very easy to mess up because of the lengthy workflow and multiple pairs of ears involved.


 
  
 Going by ears is most certainly one way of getting things wrong.  
  
 I have a friend who works in setting up live performance equipment and its acoustics, he complains about the old but established sound engineers who does things by their ears which gets things wrong because their hearing is both getting worse due to old age as well as the continuous exposure to loud music so what their ears tells them is the "right sound" is nearly always skewed towards some awfully off sound setting, but due to their seniority nobody dares to challenge these old engineers so them more junior workers just fix the volumes behind their backs. This is the type of bad practices that often happens behind the scene which us end users have very little control over.


----------



## TSAVJason

nanaholic said:


> Going by ears is most certainly one way of getting things wrong.
> 
> I have a friend who works in setting up live performance equipment and its acoustics, he complains about the old but established sound engineers who does things by their ears which gets things wrong because their hearing is both getting worse due to old age as well as the continuous exposure to loud music so what their ears tells them is the "right sound" is nearly always skewed towards some awfully off sound setting, but due to their seniority nobody dares to challenge these old engineers so them more junior workers just fix the volumes behind their backs. This is the type of bad practices that often happens behind the scene which us end users have very little control over.


Sounds like you have some sort of dislike for older people. In fact some of the best trained ears have excellent hearing and have learned to hear error better than younger ears that are still learning how to pick out errors. To my point digital errors can happen in many different stages of recording. In friendly argument I would say a bad mix is due to a bad engineer having very little to do with age and more to do with the lack of skill. To Xero1's point and subsequent post the most common errors happen at the point of mastering compression as they push the limit of gain. Digital corruption at this juncture is easily avoidable. Again nothing to do with age. Digital corruption can happen at any point in recording from the individual track to the final 2 track master to the mastering compression as it becomes a completed digital file ready for playback. Your focus on the age of an engineer not only seems condescending toward older people but also very narrow in perspective. Rather than point toward age as a negative maybe respecting the talent developed with time like a fine wine. This doesn't mean a young person can't develop the talent to create a quality mix early in life, even in youth you have to learn what the wrong methods are to know what the right methods are.


----------



## XERO1

Hi Jason.
  
 In defense of nanaholic's post, I don't think he meant any disrespect but was just relating an example of improper mixing.  But his example of mixing for a live event has absolutely nothing to do with the overuse of dynamic compression that is happening in the studios by experienced mastering engineers that have excellent hearing and use TOTL equipment.  And in most cases, they are fully aware that they are ruining the sound of the original mix.  But it is usually insisted that they do it by the album's clueless producers, who are the boss, and can tell the mastering engineer what to do.  And if the mastering engineer wants to stay employed, they don't have much of choice in the matter becasue if they refuse to do it, the producers will just find someone else who will.


----------



## TSAVJason

xero1 said:


> Hi Jason.
> 
> In defense of nanaholic's post, I don't think he meant any disrespect but was just relating an example of improper mixing.  But his example of mixing for a live event has absolutely nothing to do with the overuse of dynamic compression that is happening in the studios by experienced mastering engineers that have excellent hearing and use TOTL equipment.  And in most cases, they are fully aware that they are ruining the sound of the original mix.  But it is usually insisted that they do it by the album's clueless producers, who are the boss, and can tell the mastering engineer what to do.  And if the mastering engineer wants to stay employed, they don't have much of choice in the matter becasue if they refuse to do it, the producers will just find someone else who will. :mad:


Live recordings are only different in that the challenge becomes microphone bleed. A good experienced engineer knows how to mitigate most of this challenge. If a live recording isn't planned well it will likely come out badly.


----------



## Rob49

Any more impressions, from owners of this marvellous looking device.....i hope i can acquire the finances one day, to purchase....wonder if it will drop in price sometime in the future ??


----------



## Leviticus

rob49 said:


> Any more impressions, from owners of this marvellous looking device.....i hope i can acquire the finances one day, to purchase....wonder if it will drop in price sometime in the future ??


 
  
 The Walkman products hardly ever see any (meaningful) price reductions, especially the flagship models. The ZX2, for instance, was released here in Germany in April 2015, costing €1,199. Even after the release of its successor models (WM1 A and Z), it still retails for €1,099. I seriously doubt that Sony will change their price policy with the release of their new boutique headphone amplifier. 
  
 In my very humble opinion, you can only make a good bargain by scouring abroad looking for cheap offerings and currency gyrations that you can use to your advantage.


----------



## Rob49

leviticus said:


> The Walkman products hardly ever see any (meaningful) price reductions, especially the flagship models. The ZX2, for instance, was released here in Germany in April 2015, costing €1,199. Even after the release of its successor models (WM1 A and Z), it still retails for €1,099. I seriously doubt that Sony will change their price policy with the release of their new boutique headphone amplifier.
> 
> In my very humble opinion, you can only make a good bargain by scouring abroad looking for cheap offerings and currency gyrations that you can use to your advantage.


 
  
 True what you say, but i boughtt my ZX2, / Amazon deals, so was hoping at some point,, but i think it's very unlikely that "flagship" products will drop in price ?


----------



## TSAVJason

rob49 said:


> True what you say, but i boughtt my ZX2, / Amazon deals, so was hoping at some point,, but i think it's very unlikely that "flagship" products will drop in price ?


You may see slight reductions in price on the headphones but he's right, you likely won't see significant reductions on the Walkman or Amp/DAC. The Amp/DAC is the hottest selling piece of them all here in the US at the moment with the 1Z Walkman close behind. The headphone is likely slow because there are still people hoping to see it sold by Amazon. Amazon in North America is not an authorized dealer for Signature Series product so those folks will be waiting a very long time. AmazonUK has been on/off with a few pieces but it technically is not allowed to ship to the US so that is why you see it as "pre-order" on their system. Sony U.K. elected to stop their supply while they stress the rules to Amazon UK which is simple in that grey market supply is not allowed. As has been stated by others here on headfi, you need to be aware that the Walkman and Amp/DAC are region specific so buying from out of the country could end up a bad experience if you are not fully aware of the differences by region. As an FYI we are getting lots of calls and emails from other countries including the U.K. to purchase the US version of the 1Z Walkman. So just be smart on where and what you're buying because we understand that saving money is often a major reason why or if some people purchase these products. I am so looking forward to Sunday nights Martini!! Have a great New Years!


----------



## dan_can

whitigir said:


> So, the best for using this Amp and the Walkman would be to use it with the Cradle and an upgraded USB cables. I did a brief comparison between Zx2 as a digital transport into the amp by : Cradle and direct supplied cables.
> 
> The amp has a built in feature to charge the Walkman directly out of Walkman port and the supplied cables. However, you will be losing out the goodies from extra processing power and hardware. There is another dongle : WMC-NWH10 but it does not allow the Walkman being charged when connected via USB B in the back...even modified one to Walkman port. It has no hardware built in for that.
> 
> ...


 
 Does dock output DSD from ZX2?


----------



## Whitigir

dan_can said:


> Does dock output DSD from ZX2?




No, ZX2 has no capability to playback native DSD in digital out or analog out. Only WM series can do so, Wm1A or 1Z can output Digital up to 11.2


----------



## musicor

I got mine two days ago.
  
 Connected to a MacBookPro and with the Z1R headphones. Sound was great (to my ears) for the time things worked.
 From the start the Mac was doing weird. Applications that play sound and volume controls started lagging (although everything else was working smoothly) and now it doesn't play through the TA-ZH1ES anymore :/
 Looks like a compatibility or driver issue. When I switch to internal speakers as output source on the Mac, things go back to normal.
 So I am going to assume it's a Mac issue.
  
 I do want to try also my Onkyo DP-X1 with it but I do not have a micro USB (Onkyo) to USB-B (TA-ZH1ES) OTG cable.
 The walkman port on this just looks like micro USB. Will it support any Android device with OTG or is that really just for the Sony Walkman?
  
 Thank you


----------



## dan_can

whitigir said:


> No, ZX2 has no capability to playback native DSD in digital out or analog out. Only WM series can do so, Wm1A or 1Z can output Digital up to 11.2


 
 Does the DAC (TH1EA) take in DoP? I guess ZX2 doesn't even transimit DoP over the USB?


----------



## Whitigir

dan_can said:


> Does the DAC (TH1EA) take in DoP? I guess ZX2 doesn't even transimit DoP over the USB?




 Zx2 has many limitations. Hence the best transport for the TA at an affordable price gotta be WM1A

Walkman micro USB port can be used with other OTG micro USB devices


----------



## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> Zx2 has many limitations. Hence the best transport for the TA at an affordable price gotta be WM1A
> 
> Walkman micro USB port can be used with other OTG micro USB devices


 

 What limitations are you referring to?
  
 Btw, what is DoP?


----------



## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> No, ZX2 has no capability to playback native DSD in digital out or analog out. Only WM series can do so, Wm1A or 1Z can output Digital up to 11.2


 

 But when we use the cradle, native DSD is no problem?


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> But when we use the cradle, native DSD is no problem?




Nope, Zx2 can not output native DSD . The older S-master has no ability to do so


----------



## purk

whitigir said:


> Nope, Zx2 can not output native DSD . The older S-master has no ability to do so


 
 More like previous models can't.  DSD native is only capable on the 1A & 1Z.  I love the TA-ZH1ES and really think it is the star of the Sony Signature released.


----------



## musicday

I would like to know how this amplifier stand against other high end ones like Chord Hugo TT.Have anyone tried it MrSpeakers Ether series in balanced mode yet?
On paper should have mode then enough power to drive them properly.


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> More like previous models can't.  DSD native is only capable on the 1A & 1Z.  I love the TA-ZH1ES and really think it is the star of the Sony Signature released.


 
  
 I've always wondered this....are Sony misleading when music files state "DSD" / 1 bit e.t.c. if you "upsample" ( ZX2 ) ?


----------



## Zarniwoop76

Have been playing a 24 bit 192KHz album called 'Muddy Waters - folk singer' through the TA ZH1ES, via my ZX2 and listening on my MDR Z1R headphones. Wow. Just wow. The fact that this live album has been so beautifully recorded means the 24 bit 192KH stream of music that you get is, well unlike anything I have heard before. The instrument separation is phenomenal. Now I know what it feels like to be able to easily focus on a single instrument. You can hear the strings being plucked right neat to your ears, you can feel the fingers thrumming, you can hear the singers breath, hear his lowly muttering, hear the feet scrape on the floor. This is something wonderful! I never knew music could be so organic and real.
  
 The ZX2 doesn't play DSD256. Will play this through 'USB Audio Player Pro' on my samsung (have downloaded some DSD256's) and see how they sound. Perhaps DSD256 is overkill.
  
 The amp is a gem. A real gem.


----------



## Rob49

zarniwoop76 said:


> Have been playing a 24 bit 192KHz album called 'Muddy Waters - folk singer' through the TA ZH1ES, via my ZX2 and listening on my MDR Z1R headphones. Wow. Just wow. The fact that this live album has been so beautifully recorded means the 24 bit 192KH stream of music that you get is, well unlike anything I have heard before. The instrument separation is phenomenal. Now I know what it feels like to be able to easily focus on a single instrument. You can hear the strings being plucked right neat to your ears, you can feel the fingers thrumming, you can hear the singers breath, hear his lowly muttering, hear the feet scrape on the floor. This is something wonderful! I never knew music could be so organic and real.
> 
> The ZX2 doesn't play DSD256. Will play this through 'USB Audio Player Pro' on my samsung (have downloaded some DSD256's) and see how they sound. Perhaps DSD256 is overkill.
> 
> The amp is a gem. A real gem.


 
  
 So envious ! 
  
 The U.K. Government has stopped my Disability benefit, ( Which they are doing to many disabled people...shameful !! ) So the present chances of being able to afford one, is not something i'll be able to consider, in the near future....or even distant future !


----------



## musicday

They seem to sell well on Amazon Hopefully a price discount will be in near future.


----------



## Leviticus

musicday said:


> They seem to sell well on Amazon Hopefully a price discount will be in near future.


 

 No point in slashing prices when your product is selling well.


----------



## musicday

Anyone yet? Vs Hugo TT, or trying out Ether headphones with this Sony headphone amplifier?
Thank you.


----------



## Sonic Guild

I am interested in this amp, any good reviews yet?
 I have been told that it is a warm amp/DAC. 
 Not sure if it is warm in the good or bad way.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic guild said:


> I am interested in this amp, any good reviews yet?
> I have been told that it is a warm amp/DAC.
> Not sure if it is warm in the good or bad way.




In a good way , and I am going to put up my review soon with some good pictures.


----------



## Sonic Guild

whitigir said:


> In a good way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you don't mind I would like to ask if you have compared it to other amps? Any idea if it pairs well with the Utopia. 
 I am going to see my Neo430 and might get the Sony for 2 reasons. 
 The Neo is heavy and huge and I I want something small. The second reason is tat I like the idea of choosing which headphones output to get the sound from. In this way I can keep all my phones connected and just select which to listen to. 
 The ultimate question is will I loose SQ if I just to Sony's realm?


----------



## purk

sonic guild said:


> I am interested in this amp, any good reviews yet?
> I have been told that it is a warm amp/DAC.
> Not sure if it is warm in the good or bad way.


 
  
 I would totally recommended it.  This is a really great warmer sounding amp with very nice rendering of the soundstage w/ very refined presentation.   I find this amp still a little soft sounding in term of macro dynamics but for the price it is quite a bargain.  I anticipate that Sony will see a lot of success with this amp even more so than the signature DAPs and Z1R.  The warmer nature of the amp also make it a great candidate for driving the HD800/800S.  I still need to test the amp with the HEK V2 and will report back.


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> I would totally recommended it.  This is a really great warmer sounding amp with very nice rendering of the soundstage w/ very refined presentation.   I find this amp still a little soft sounding in term of macro dynamics but for the price it is quite a bargain.  I anticipate that Sony will see a lot of success with this amp even more so than the signature DAPs and Z1R.  The warmer nature of the amp also make it a great candidate for driving the HD800/800S.  I still need to test the amp with the HEK V2 and will report back.


I've tested the HEK v2 and on the Sony amp it is very impressive!


----------



## musicday

What about Ether C Flow Jason, did you get a chance to try this combo?


----------



## dan_can

Since I sold all my other headphones and amplifier, I've been listening to HD800 via HeadAmp Pico Power fed by Sony ZX2. I am really suprised by how musical this set up sounds and I am really enjoying it every day. Since I'm looking for a desktop DAC and an amp, I think the ZH1ES should be a very good choice based on the impressions so far and the sound of Sony ZX2. BTW, I mainly listen to classical.
  
 @purk Can't wait for your impressions of ZH1ES with HD800.


----------



## starblue

I tested out a few headphones while burning in my amp. Here are some observations (all headphones except Pioneer SE M1 paired in balanced mode)
 - no surprise, Z1R pairs with this amp very well
 - Audeze LCD XC and LCD3 - ZH1ES drives both headphones quite easily. No loss of detail on LCD3 which is the darker of the two. Nice pairing with LCD XC as well. I find the bright a bit 'tamed'n compared to driving the same headphone from Audio GD NFB-27 which is more neutral 
 - Pioneer SE -M1 - very musical combo but I give it to SE M1 more than this amp as the M1 sounds musical of any other amp/DAP I have
 - Bigger surprise was pairing with HD800 out of balanced XLR. Actually the amp does a great job taming HD800's bright character. HD800 has never been my favorite to due to brightness and lack of bass but paired with this amp, at least brightness issue gets tamed to some extent
 - Biggest disappointment was pairing with TH900. Even this amp couldn't do much to tame its brighter end. My ears are very sensitive to brightness which is why the TH900 isnt my go to headphone despite its solid bass. I was expecting the combo to be better but (purely for me) it turned out to be a disappointment. I guess amp did a better job with HD800 compared to TH900 due to HD800 being the more neutral of the two. Those accounted to TH900 sound signature may find the pairing better than I did
  
 Which brings me to a question. When pairing with TH900, I would like to reduce the highs a bit using equalizer. Since Audirvana+ does not allow this, I am thinking of using my DP-X1 as the source. Questions
 - can DP-X1 be commected to this amp using OTG cable?
 - if yes, will DP-X1 equalizer setting be effective when audio is out via OTG cable?
  
 Lastly, I tested out NW WM1A and Z few weeks back. Between the two the Z was definitely warmer while A had a colder sound signature. I am very glad that ZH1S is on the warmer end given the apparent variation in Sony's amp/daps.


----------



## starblue

sonic guild said:


> I am interested in this amp, any good reviews yet?
> I have been told that it is a warm amp/DAC.
> Not sure if it is warm in the good or bad way.


 

 Warm and in extremely good way!


----------



## starblue

Deleted duplicate post


----------



## Sonic Guild

Waiting to hear from someone who tested it with the Utopia.
  
 Someone on this thread said that this amp is slow.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic guild said:


> Waiting to hear from someone who tested it with the Utopia.
> 
> Someone on this thread said that this amp is slow.




? This is Sony and S-Master.


----------



## purk

sonic guild said:


> Waiting to hear from someone who tested it with the Utopia.
> 
> Someone on this thread said that this amp is slow.


 
 I'm sure that Jason can fill you in on it.  Personally have not auditioned the Utopia but this amp should be a good match IMO.  It works well with both my Qualia, R10, and HD800 as well as the Z1R...so I would guess that it will work well with the Utopia too.


----------



## Sonic Guild

whitigir said:


> ? This is Sony and S-Master.


 

 Sorry I did not get it?


----------



## TSAVJason

sonic guild said:


> Waiting to hear from someone who tested it with the Utopia.
> 
> Someone on this thread said that this amp is slow.


Slow? Not even. It's true when they accuse me of listening to the ES amp with the Utopia. This ES amp is really a very friendly pairing on many headphones but with the Utopia .....here it comes my last technical term for 2016 .....yummy!!


----------



## Whitigir

sonic guild said:


> Sorry I did not get it?




SMaster is typically different than other DAC and or solid state in senses of speed


----------



## Sonic Guild

tsavjason said:


> Slow? Not even. It's true when they accuse me of listening to the ES amp with the Utopia. This ES amp is really a very friendly pairing on many headphones but with the Utopia .....here it comes my last technical term for 2016 .....yummy!!


 

 Thanks for the clarification.
  
 I am still not quite sure why too many members on Head-fi accuse many different amps of being slow.
 Someone accused the Neo 430 of being slow and somehow dull, which I can not hear such things on my Neo 430. 
  
 I think that the Sony will be on my desk very soon, hopefully it will be different flavour from the Neo (good flavour 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## TSAVJason

sonic guild said:


> Thanks for the clarification.
> 
> I am still not quite sure why too many members on Head-fi accuse many different amps of being slow.
> Someone accused the Neo 430 of being slow and somehow dull, which I can not hear such things on my Neo 430.
> ...


The 430HAD is an awesome amplifier/DAC for those that want a totally neutral sounding amplifier. The Sony is a very smooth and warm amplifier (warm in a positive way)


----------



## musicday

Anyone heard Ether C Flow balanced with this amplifier? Impressions?


----------



## AppleheadMay

So a warmish amp/dac that pairs well with the Z1R, M1 and TH-900 is what I got so far.
  
 Any comparisons with other amps? Not bright and sharp like a GS-X?
 Compared to the Pioneer U-05? Or a Black Widow or Zana?
 What would be it's nearest rivals/alternatives?
  
 And how does it make the Utopia and HD650 sound?
  
 Is it's strong point the Dac or amp?
  
 Sorry for the barrage of questions but I suddenly got rather interested in a neutral(ish) SS amp with top spec dac that doesn't sound bright. I think you got me at "warm". 
  
 Not cheap though.


----------



## Sonic Guild

appleheadmay said:


> So a warmish amp/dac that pairs well with the Z1R, M1 and TH-900 is what I got so far.
> 
> Any comparisons with other amps? Not bright and sharp like a GS-X?
> Compared to the Pioneer U-05? Or a Black Widow or Zana?
> ...


 
 Same here man, I need more info about this amp/DAC.
 There are no good reviews at all on the net, all what I can find are just glorification paid articles here and there!
  
 For example, I would like to know what are the results in terms of sound quality after upscaling to DSD through the built in software?
 Is it a gimmick or it does make the sound better (not artificially).


----------



## TSAVJason

sonic guild said:


> Same here man, I need more info about this amp/DAC.
> There are no good reviews at all on the net, all what I can find are just glorification paid articles here and there!
> 
> For example, I would like to know what are the results in terms of sound quality after upscaling to DSD through the built in software?
> Is it a gimmick or it does make the sound better (not artificially).


Within both your posts there are questions I am not allowed to answer. So I'll answer what I can. The Utopia on the SSS Amp/DAC is great like I've said previously. I own the Utopia, the 1Z and the ES amp/DAC and the are an amazing pairing. 

The amp/DAC is linear, it's warm with lots of detail, it's in no way considered bright or neutral, it does improve MP3 when it receives the MP3 file from the 1Z & 1A. When it does it is a noticable effect. It seems to remove what I would refer to as conjestion in the material. It does not replace any of what is lost during MP3 compression. It is absolutely a very slick feature. 

The amp/DAC does have a great sense of space and doesn't seem to struggle at all or give you that compressed sound like some amps give toward the top of the gain/volume control.


----------



## Sonic Guild

tsavjason said:


> Within both your posts there are questions I am not allowed to answer. So I'll answer what I can. The Utopia on the SSS Amp/DAC is great like I've said previously. I own the Utopia, the 1Z and the ES amp/DAC and the are an amazing pairing.
> 
> The amp/DAC is linear, it's warm with lots of detail, it's in no way considered bright or neutral, it does improve MP3 when it receives the MP3 file from the 1Z & 1A. When it does it is a noticable effect. It seems to remove what I would refer to as conjestion in the material. It does not replace any of what is lost during MP3 compression. It is absolutely a very slick feature.
> 
> The amp/DAC does have a great sense of space and doesn't seem to struggle at all or give you that compressed sound like some amps give toward the top of the gain/volume control.


 

 One last question (I promise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)!
 Is it fully balanced? The whole circuit starting from the USB in to 4 pin XLR?


----------



## Whitigir

sonic guild said:


> One last question (I promise  )!
> Is it fully balanced? The whole circuit starting from the USB in to 4 pin XLR?




How about buying 1 and open it up to see for yourself


----------



## Sonic Guild

whitigir said:


> How about buying 1 and open it up to see for yourself


 

 Done, just placed the order.


----------



## dan_can

I guess it's got be fully balanced. Wait... Then why Sony is not advertising it?


----------



## Sonic Guild

dan_can said:


> I guess it's got be fully balanced. Wait... Then why Sony is not advertising it?


 

 I agree, I checked their website searching for any info to confirm if the whole circuit is balanced BUT no luck.
 I assume it is not fully balanced.


----------



## purk

sonic guild said:


> One last question (I promise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It sure sound like a really good balanced amp.  I would rate the Z1ES as being better than the Senn HDVD-800 and considerably better than the Oppo HA-1.


----------



## Whitigir

dan_can said:


> I guess it's got be fully balanced. Wait... Then why Sony is not advertising it?




Read through the specifications. The Balanced out is 1.2 W and the unbalanced power is 300mW. That is the indications of real balanced circuitry.


----------



## starblue

dan_can said:


> I guess it's got be fully balanced. Wait... Then why Sony is not advertising it?


 

 Perhaps Sony thought not worth stating the obvious..... It can be taken as insult in Japanese culture


----------



## Whitigir

starblue said:


> Perhaps Sony thought not worth stating the obvious..... It can be taken as insult in Japanese culture




No, this is more like a case of Sony trying to not disclose too much about their technology. The following is observations and speculations :

The inner circuitry is S-Master + Analog Hybrid, you can call it Direct Digital and Analog hybrid converter. If you follow Sony WM Walkman, they already stated that they do not use Dual DAC for true balanced out in the Walkman 4.4mm. It is just simply because they revised their technology in S-Master, which allow it to fully act as a Balanced processor itself with the design around true balanced output.

Now, the above means that if someone is using Es9018S (Single DAC chip) and do true balanced out, it still have to be processed by the same single chip. In this case, it is the new S-Master HX.

Beside, I already said that, balanced out is 1200 mW, and unbalanced is 300 mW only. That is the indication of true balanced out. Knowing how well Sony is pushing Balanced connection lately, I say that this is true balanced out. It sounds like one, power output is like 1


----------



## Leviticus

Sony also didn't advertise that the ZX2 supports TRRS and that it's digital output is superb. There are lots of examples where the community had to do some 'digging'. Sony not advertising somthing doesn't mean it's not there.


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> Sony also didn't advertise that the ZX2 supports TRRS and that it's digital output is superb. There are lots of examples where the community had to do some 'digging'. Sony not advertising somthing doesn't mean it's not there.




They don't even advertise Single ended 3.5mm on WM series support TRRS just as much as Zx2


----------



## starblue

To be honest, Japanese companies are quite far behind when it comes to properly advertising their product or achievements. Just think Onkyo/Pioneer released XDP100/DP-X1 when for a while you couldn't find product description or manual in English. Its s shame really. My brother in law (Japanese) works in Hitachi and is doing some really cool stuff on Artificial Intelligence but feels it will all go to dogs as his company doesn't know how to sell it to earn from it...
  
 I am not sure if this is language issue though. Every Japanese product I buy comes with an elaborate paper manual...


----------



## Sonic Guild

starblue said:


> Perhaps Sony thought not worth stating the obvious..... It can be taken as insult in Japanese culture


 

 Maybe Sony assumes it is obvious, but sadly there are many other companies that sell amps with balanced out BUT the circuit is not fully balanced from input to output.
 I don't want to mention names to start a war on this thread, as many members are tied with companies.


----------



## Sonic Guild

whitigir said:


> No, this is more like a case of Sony trying to not disclose too much about their technology. The following is observations and speculations :
> 
> The inner circuitry is S-Master + Analog Hybrid, you can call it Direct Digital and Analog hybrid converter. If you follow Sony WM Walkman, they already stated that they do not use Dual DAC for true balanced out in the Walkman 4.4mm. It is just simply because they revised their technology in S-Master, which allow it to fully act as a Balanced processor itself with the design around true balanced output.
> 
> ...


 

 What is the equivalent of S-Master in other amps companies?


----------



## Sonic Guild

Here is what I found about the S-Master (check bold font):
  
 "S-Master Full Digital Amplifier
Sony’s Systems are equipped with S-Master Digital Amplifier for superb accuracy, clear separation of signals, *and balanced sound reproduction using a digital-to-digital process*. They are designed to be highly efficient, producing minimal heat while taking up about a quarter of the space of conventional amplifiers. 

 S-Master accepts all digital signals in digital and cleanly amplifies the signal in “digital” without needing to convert it into analogue first. Using a simplified signal path and full digital processing, the audio signal is taken directly from DSP stage without additional D/A conversion. This keeps the purity of the digital audio signal right up to the final speaker output, reproducing a realistic sound experience just like the original recording."

Source: http://www.sony.co.in/article/210012/section/product/product/dav-dz150k


----------



## purk

sonic guild said:


> What is the equivalent of S-Master in other amps companies?


 
 Class D amplifier?  The first of such amp in the headphone amplifier segment is the Audio-Technica ATH-DHA3000.  I have that amp and the ZH1ES is definitely more superior sounding to it.  "Balanced Sound Production" is different than a balanced amplifier IMO.  And the ZH1ES has a balanced amplification.


----------



## Whitigir

The ability to follow and trace after a line of sub-bass, guitar, violin, piano....whatever I wanted to from TA-ZH1ES and Z1R is such a privilege. Vividly following a line of play from the beginning to the end and into the power delivery, the energies, the dynamic headroom, reverb, resonance.....etc..... The first time I don't have the feeling of the separations between lines are mixed up, buried underneath another layer or being overpowered by others. WoooooWwwwOoooooo.

Sony, I thank you for having such excellent DAC, Amp such as TA-ZH1ES. This is really Sony, this is a Statement that "Sony is back, and will be stronger than ever". I believe "what doesn't kill you, make you stronger". I think I am seeing it here


----------



## Rob49

whitigir said:


> The ability to follow and trace after a line of sub-bass, guitar, violin, piano....whatever I wanted to from TA-ZH1ES and Z1R is such a privilege. Vividly following a line of play from the beginning to the end and into the power delivery, the energies, the dynamic headroom, reverb, resonance.....etc..... The first time I don't have the feeling of the separations between lines are mixed up, buried underneath another layer or being overpowered by others. WoooooWwwwOoooooo.
> 
> Sony, I thank you for having such excellent DAC, Amp such as TA-ZH1ES. This is really Sony, this is a Statement that "Sony is back, and will be stronger than ever". I believe "what doesn't kill you, make you stronger". I think I am seeing it here


 
  
 What's your thoughts on the DSD Re-mastering ? I wonder if it's the same DSD Re-mastering feature that is found on their HAP - Z1ES player ??


----------



## purk

rob49 said:


> What's your thoughts on the DSD Re-mastering ? I wonder if it's the same DSD Re-mastering feature that is found on their HAP - Z1ES player ??


 
 Not sure if it is the same but I read some where is that the one on here is the 2nd generation of DSD Re-mastering.  It maybe a gimmick but I love mine too.  Every file (beside DSD) just sound a little more analog and a touch more warmth.  I do have mine staying on at all time.


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> Not sure if it is the same but I read some where is that the one on here is the 2nd generation of DSD Re-mastering.  It maybe a gimmick but I love mine too.  Every file (beside DSD) just sound a little more analog and a touch more warmth.  I do have mine staying on at all time.


 
  
 I do have a HAP-S1 player, which doesn't have the DSD Remastering feature, but it sounds excellent, all the same ! I'd love to buy the DAC/ AMP, but wonder how much better it would be, than my HAP-S1 ???


----------



## Dithyrambes

purk how does it compare to the dac section of your yggy?


----------



## purk

rob49 said:


> I do have a HAP-S1 player, which doesn't have the DSD Remastering feature, but it sounds excellent, all the same ! I'd love to buy the DAC/ AMP, but wonder how much better it would be, than my HAP-S1 ???


 
  
 It should be a substantial improvement especially in a balanced mode.  I really really do like the ZH1ES with all my headphones.  
  


dithyrambes said:


> purk how does it compare to the dac section of your yggy?


 
  
 I have not compared but I would say not quite as good but very good as a stand alone DAC; however, as sum of a dac & amp...the ZH1ES is a tremendous all-in-one unit.  For instance, the Yggy into the ZH1ES isn't as good as digital input into the ZH1ES.  However, this is due to the way that the digital amp needing to digitize the incoming analog signal from the Yggy.


----------



## XERO1

​Quote:


whitigir said:


> The ability to follow and trace after a line of sub-bass, guitar, violin, piano....whatever I wanted to from TA-ZH1ES and Z1R is such a privilege. Vividly following a line of play from the beginning to the end and into the power delivery, the energies, the dynamic headroom, reverb, resonance.....etc..... The first time I don't have the feeling of the separations between lines are mixed up, buried underneath another layer or being overpowered by others. WoooooWwwwOoooooo.
> 
> Sony, I thank you for having such excellent DAC, Amp such as TA-ZH1ES. This is really Sony, this is a Statement that "Sony is back, and will be stronger than ever". I believe "what doesn't kill you, make you stronger". I think I am seeing it here


 
 ​I think somebody's in LOVE!


----------



## Sonic Guild

whitigir said:


> The ability to follow and trace after a line of sub-bass, guitar, violin, piano....whatever I wanted to from TA-ZH1ES and Z1R is such a privilege. Vividly following a line of play from the beginning to the end and into the power delivery, the energies, the dynamic headroom, reverb, resonance.....etc..... The first time I don't have the feeling of the separations between lines are mixed up, buried underneath another layer or being overpowered by others. WoooooWwwwOoooooo.
> 
> Sony, I thank you for having such excellent DAC, Amp such as TA-ZH1ES. This is really Sony, this is a Statement that "Sony is back, and will be stronger than ever". I believe "what doesn't kill you, make you stronger". I think I am seeing it here


 

 Not quite sure but what you are experiencing is the headphones (Z1R), not the amp. Right?


----------



## Whitigir

sonic guild said:


> Not quite sure but what you are experiencing is the headphones (Z1R), not the amp. Right?




A combination of both, but no...the TA is the main improvements as I used it with SA5000 and 3000 as well


----------



## Leviticus

If you are living in Europe and want to make a good bargain: Amazon Germany is currently selling the ZH1 for €1698 instead of €1999. Speaking from experience, the price will bounce back to the original price soon. When I pre-ordered the ZX2 from amazon 2 years ago, the price also suddenly dropped by approx. 300 Euros and quickly "recovered". Apparently those price gyrations are normal on amazon.
  
 They told me that units will be shipped between Feb.15 - March 11.
  
 https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01LHGLAQ8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## starblue

whitigir said:


> A combination of both, but no...the TA is the main improvements as I used it with SA5000 and 3000 as well


 

 Echo it! I am listening to Audeze LCD XC with this amp and the combo sounds excellent!


----------



## Whitigir

To TA owners, the TA does benefit a lot from a simple Powercord upgrade. Better dynamic, deeper soundstage and resolutions across the board. You do not have to pay thousands to buy an upgraded Powercord. What I did was following VH recipes and bought the wires, parts, and turned some screws.

Recipes as follows. You can click on the links provided from there to buy wires.

http://www.venhaus1.com/diymains.html

My cables is a larger size of the Summit from what I gathered from recipes and technical aspects of Powercord cables. I made it for 3 leads, and even though the Ta only uses 2 leads, it worked flawlessly. There is an immediate improvements from listening between Power cables, and the main improvements that is noticeable right away was the Bass dynamic and power delivery

For your interests, the stock cables is cheap 2 wires of 18 AWG unshieled, and general rules of thumbs is that Powercord gotta be the least 16AwG per wire.

Also, while you are at it, the stock USB cables is also of very bad quality. It is 2x24Awg for power lines and 2x 28AWG for data transmission lines. To be acceptable, the general rules of thumbs would to have the least of 24 AWG for all wires. It is not only technically speaking, but by using upgraded USB cables and power cord cables, you are doing your TA huge favors and bringing it sound performances into even higher standard. I can observe it, and I am sure you can as well


----------



## purk

whitigir said:


> A combination of both, but no...the TA is the main improvements as I used it with SA5000 and 3000 as well


 
 Great synergy with the HD800, R10, Qualia, and CD3000 too.


----------



## Sonic Guild

whitigir said:


> To TA owners, the TA does benefit a lot from a simple Powercord upgrade. Better dynamic, deeper soundstage and resolutions across the board. You do not have to pay thousands to buy an upgraded Powercord. What I did was following VH recipes and bought the wires, parts, and turned some screws.
> 
> Recipes as follows. You can click on the links provided from there to buy wires.
> 
> ...


 

 Do u recommend a power cable and USB that u tested by yourself?
 I don't want to go through cutting and shielding cables by myself.


----------



## Whitigir

sonic guild said:


> Do u recommend a poor cable and USB that u tested by yourself?
> I don't want to go through cutting and shielding cables by myself.




Neither of my DIY cables is poor....it is only cheaper and I can cater it to what I need. The only thing poor that I would recommend is from audio quest or Pangea for Powercord and USB cables. I am not sure of how much that improvements would be, but it would show improvements as long as you purchase the minimal recommended sizes

This is a good starting out USB cable. It has solid core data lines and affordable with those minimal sizes of 25 AWG if I am not mistaken

https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Cinnamon-Digital-Audio-Cable/dp/B0041E3RLA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1483643282&sr=8-3&keywords=audioquest+usb+cable

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00725BVOK?psc=1&smid=A2XGE4CX5AV74X

Pangea silver 

https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-cable-solid-silver/dp/B005AUH8SM/ref=sr_1_3?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1483643664&sr=1-3&keywords=pangea+audio+-+usb+cable

This one is also very budget friendly and should bring about noticeable improvements and will be good for a starting point as it use Long grain crystal, I believe it is another technology that is very similar to OCC, only because OCC is patented and only 1 company still producing it so far. Those connectors look to be Brass and gold plated which is better than steel in stock cable. It should be 14-16 AWG per wire if I am not mistaken

https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-NRG-2-AC-power-cord/dp/B0006VPP12/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1483643450&sr=1-1&keywords=Audio+quest+power+cord


----------



## Sonic Guild

whitigir said:


> Neither of my DIY cables is poor....it is only cheaper and I can cater it to what I need. The only thing poor that I would recommend is from audio quest or Pangea for Powercord and USB cables. I am not sure of how much that improvements would be, but it would show improvements as long as you purchase the minimal recommended sizes
> 
> This is a good starting out USB cable. It has solid core data lines and affordable with those minimal sizes of 25 AWG if I am not mistaken
> 
> ...


 

 SORRY!
  
 I meant to say POWER not POOR! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sorry again


----------



## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> My cables is a larger size of the Summit from what I gathered from recipes and technical aspects of Powercord cables. I made it for 3 leads, and even though the Ta only uses 2 leads, it worked flawlessly. There is an immediate improvements from listening between Power cables, and the main improvements that is noticeable right away was the Bass dynamic and power delivery


 
 Does your power socket have 2 or three pins? Usually they should have 3 pins, but all pictures show the socket with 2 pins. Maybe it's just an Asian thing?
  
  
  

  
 All aftermarket cable support 3 pins. Can't wait to get my ZH1ES. D


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> Does your power socket have 2 or three pins? Usually they should have 3 pins, but all pictures show the socket with 2 pins. Maybe it's just an Asian thing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That is right, there is only 2 pins. My upgraded Powercord is 3 sockets, but that should not matter because the 3rd one is Ground.


----------



## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> That is right, there is only 2 pins. My upgraded Powercord is 3 sockets, but that should not matter because the 3rd one is Ground.


 

 And we don't need ground?
  
 God, I will spend approx. €900 on cables for the Z1HES (including an Audioquest Diamond cable....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
 How can things get much better in the future?


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> And we don't need ground?
> 
> God, I will spend approx. €900 on cables for the Z1HES (including an Audioquest Diamond cable....:rolleyes: )
> 
> How can things get much better in the future?




No need for ground. It is most often connected to the chassis from the inside anyways. It can get better if you upgrade the inner wires that lead from the female socket into the board pins . This was advertised from EBay and china forum people. This is only example picture, and you can see the 3rd wires go into the chassis. TA does not use it, so we only has 2 main leads.


----------



## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> No need for ground. It is most often connected to the chassis from the inside anyways. It can get better if you upgrade the inner wires that lead from the female socket into the board pins
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 We audiophiles keep coming up with new ideas to spend even more money.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Made my day!


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> We audiophiles keep coming up with new ideas to spend even more money.
> 
> Made my day!




Lol, could be seen that way, but it made a lot of senses. These wires are typically multi stranded tinned copper, and it is no where as good as Ultra pure OCC....let alone pure silver or even silver gold . If Powercord shows that much improvements, then the last bottle neck would be this inner IC


----------



## Whitigir

sonic guild said:


> SORRY!
> 
> I meant to say POWER not POOR!
> 
> Sorry again




The one I have is DIY, and as I linked, VHaudio do sell pre assembled Powercord. You can get it here. For how well mine is worth, yeah I do recommend it

https://www.vhaudio.com/powercables.html


----------



## TSAVJason

whitigir said:


> The one I have is DIY, and as I linked, VHaudio do sell pre assembled Powercord. You can get it here. For how well mine is worth, yeah I do recommend it
> 
> https://www.vhaudio.com/powercables.html


 Maybe try Isotek made in England. $75 and really assist the power supply on any amplifier.


----------



## latestyle

So curious about this amp/DAC! Not looking for any detailed A-B, but wonder if anyone has impressions of Z1HES vs. Grace m902, which seems at a comparable price point. Or even Simaudio Moon Neo 430HA...


----------



## purk

latestyle said:


> So curious about this amp/DAC! Not looking for any detailed A-B, but wonder if anyone has impressions of Z1HES vs. Grace m902, which seems at a comparable price point. Or even Simaudio Moon Neo 430HA...


 
 I don't have the Grace M902 but I can tell you that the Z1HES falls just short of a dedicated top of the line balanced amp such as the GS-X MKII and such but totally best the Oppo HA-1.  It even best the Sennheiser HDVD-800 at driving the Senn HD800.  I am superbly impressed by the Z1HES.  Honest, I don't really think the Grace will stand any chance againt the ZH1ES.  Sony is truly back in the game.  Not only that it sounds great but the build quality is also the best in the business...and that's including Headamp GS-X MKII.


----------



## latestyle

purk said:


> I don't have the Grace M902 but I can tell you that the Z1HES falls just short of a dedicated top of the line balanced amp such as the GS-X MKII and such but totally best the Oppo HA-1.  It even best the Sennheiser HDVD-800 at driving the Senn HD800.  I am superbly impressed by the Z1HES.  Honest, I don't really think the Grace will stand any chance againt the ZH1ES.  Sony is truly back in the game.  Not only that it sounds great but the build quality is also the best in the business...and that's including Headamp GS-X MKII.




Thanks for your input, Purk! You sold me. Perhaps Sony can return to their past form when they used to be the cutting edge, e.g., their VFET amps of yesteryear? If so, sign me up.


----------



## Whitigir

Yes, I agree with Purk. The TA is an immediate and day/night away from the Ha-1. It is very obvious that TA is just ways better than Ha-1. I don't have other desktop system to compare, but I can tell you that I know what good sounds should be like, and the TA is one of the very few that can express it. Especially the soundstage rendering , separations, the vividity of each layer, and that inner circle of the soundstage rendering is to die for. I have heard all kind, and to have the inner circle and the outer stage rendering to be this Spherical, wide, deep with vivid layering ? It is excellent

The TA in my opinion is worth every penny. The ability to follow an instrument from the beginning of a chord to the end of it, into the vibrator, then reverb....echo effects so vividly and so clear .


----------



## dan_can

Don't forget TA is also a DAC. That has to be taken into account when comparing it to other amps and/or dacs.


----------



## AppleheadMay

purk said:


> I don't have the Grace M902 but I can tell you that the Z1HES falls just short of a dedicated top of the line balanced amp such as the GS-X MKII and such but totally best the Oppo HA-1.  It even best the Sennheiser HDVD-800 at driving the Senn HD800.  I am superbly impressed by the Z1HES.  Honest, I don't really think the Grace will stand any chance againt the ZH1ES.  Sony is truly back in the game.  Not only that it sounds great but the build quality is also the best in the business...and that's including Headamp GS-X MKII.


 
  
 Nice to read, that promises a lot. The quality of a GS-X but smoother with some warmth sure is appealing.
  


dan_can said:


> Don't forget TA is also a DAC. That has to be taken into account when comparing it to other amps and/or dacs.


 
  
 Feature/spec-wise a TOTL dac if I got it right?


----------



## Gibraltar

appleheadmay said:


> Nice to read, that promises a lot. The quality of a GS-X but smoother with some warmth sure is appealing.
> 
> 
> Feature/spec-wise a TOTL dac if I got it right?


 
  
 By all accounts it's a very nice DAC. One limitation of the design however is that since the DAC and amp are integrated with each other the analog input is converted to digital then back to analog again. Users have stated that the sound quality suffers if you use an external DAC, so there's no real upgrade path with this amp.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I've expressed to Sony ZH1es engineers to make an ultra high-end full-size version similar to the classic TA-E1es. Fingers crossed tightly.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E1.html


----------



## purk

Nah...what they need to revisit is the Sony TA-ER1.  I think the ER1 was the first equipment to use the ultra expensive ALP RK50 quad.


----------



## AppleheadMay

gibraltar said:


> By all accounts it's a very nice DAC. One limitation of the design however is that since the DAC and amp are integrated with each other the analog input is converted to digital then back to analog again. Users have stated that the sound quality suffers if you use an external DAC, so there's no real upgrade path with this amp.


 
  
 I don't necessarily see these two points as drawbacks. The only thing I'd connect to the analog inputs is an FM tuner.
 And the dac not being upgradable ... well PCM 768 kHz 32 bit and DSD 22.4 MHz certainly doesn't need an upgrade specwise. 
 Combine that with a amp that isn't bright but rather a little warm as I read and I think it might just have what I wish for.
 I ordered it from Amazon and it should be available in the next two months. With Amazon's return policy it's a safe bet.
 I'm hoping not to have to return it though.


----------



## Whitigir

appleheadmay said:


> I don't necessarily see these two points as drawbacks. The only thing I'd connect to the analog inputs is an FM tuner.
> And the dac not being upgradable ... well PCM 768 kHz 32 bit and DSD 22.4 MHz certainly doesn't need an upgrade specwise.
> Combine that with a amp that isn't bright but rather a little warm as I read and I think it might just have what I wish for.
> I ordered it from Amazon and it should be available in the next two months. With Amazon's return policy it's a safe bet.
> I'm hoping not to have to return it though.




I am sure you won't . It melted my heart as soon as I opened that box and hooked it up


----------



## Rob49

How are you guys mainly listening ? With your Walkman device connected ? Or other ?


----------



## AppleheadMay

whitigir said:


> I am sure you won't
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Any amps I have or had you can compare it to?


----------



## EDN80 (Feb 18, 2019)

purk said:


> I don't have the Grace M902 but I can tell you that the Z1HES falls just short of a dedicated top of the line balanced amp such as the GS-X MKII and such but totally best the Oppo HA-1.


 



whitigir said:


> Yes, I agree with Purk. The TA is an immediate and day/night away from the Ha-1. It is very obvious that TA is just ways better than Ha-1.


 

 Interesting indeed, because I use the HA-1 as DAC currently with the SPL Phonitor 2 as amp in my desktop setup.


 Problem is, THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL i'm getting rid of the Phonitor 2 -- which is an analog amp. It's that good an amp to me. In that case, I'd only be able to use the TA-ZH1ES as a DAC in bypass mode, losing the amp section and the ability to use the native TRRRS 4.4mm balanced output with my Z1R.

 Is anyone using the 1ES solely as a DAC with another amp?

 Would you say the DAC is better than the amp or vice versa?

 Should I sell both the HA-1 and Phonitor 2 and use the 1ES as sole DAC and amp?

 I don't feel like parting with the Phonitor and I don't want to see it just sitting there, useless, either.


----------



## Whitigir

Never heard of phonitor 2, but TA is an almost complete package that does everything so well. I really meant it, the DAC is superb and the amping section is also superb. I would replace many stacks for the compact all in one performances and quality of TA. 

IMO, HA-1 is top of mid-tier level only. The TA punches ways deep into the higher end segments. Hell, for an all in one unit like TA, I would go for it all day long instead of any stacking for sure


----------



## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> Never heard of phonitor 2, but TA is an almost complete package that does everything so well. I really meant it, the DAC is superb and the amping section is also superb. I would replace many stacks for the compact all in one performances and quality of TA.
> 
> IMO, HA-1 is top of mid-tier level only. The TA punches ways deep into the higher end segments. Hell, for an all in one unit like TA, I would go for it all day long instead of any stacking for sure


 

 Would you please stop raving about the TA until I get my unit next month?!  You are making it very hard for me.


----------



## Sonic Guild

whitigir said:


> Never heard of phonitor 2, but TA is an almost complete package that does everything so well. I really meant it, the DAC is superb and the amping section is also superb. I would replace many stacks for the compact all in one performances and quality of TA.
> 
> IMO, HA-1 is top of mid-tier level only. The TA punches ways deep into the higher end segments. Hell, for an all in one unit like TA, I would go for it all day long instead of any stacking for sure


 

 HA-1 is bright and cold as Hell's winter!


----------



## Whitigir

sonic guild said:


> HA-1 is bright and cold as Hell's winter!




Lol, if you don't have upgraded USB cables . I should have mentioned that


----------



## EDN80

whitigir said:


> Never heard of phonitor 2, but TA is an almost complete package that does everything so well. I really meant it, the DAC is superb and the amping section is also superb. I would replace many stacks for the compact all in one performances and quality of TA.
> 
> IMO, HA-1 is top of mid-tier level only. The TA punches ways deep into the higher end segments. Hell, for an all in one unit like TA, I would go for it all day long instead of any stacking for sure


 
  
 Thanks! Funny though how SPL pro audio products get little traction on this forum. Not selling that Phonitor 2 (except, maybe to get the new Phonitor X), so that 1ES DAC better be good/better than its amp!


----------



## hypersonic club

I had -- and sold -- the HA-1, and agree that it can really only be considered a mid-tier performer in terms of sound quality, although the build was good and the additional features (such as Bluetooth) can be nice.


----------



## EDN80

I bought the HA-1 because I liked its design and versatility at the time... and thought it would do as both DAC/amp... until I realized its shortcomings and added the Phonitor 2, which really, drastically, improved sound in a night and day kind of way. So yes, the HA-1 is bringing down the Phonitor in that setup, so time for a new DAC.


----------



## AppleheadMay

What about the Pioneer U-05?


----------



## EDN80

That Pioneer would be a lateral move of sorts, or even a step down from the HA-1 though, wouldn't it?


----------



## AppleheadMay

No idea, did you hear it?


----------



## EDN80

Price point and specifications seem to be on par, though the HA-1 has a better amp than DAC and the Pioneer seems to have a better DAC than amp. I don't expect stellar differences between the two. And that Sony looks sweet!


----------



## latestyle

TA looks like the bee's knees for corporate douchebags like myself who's looking to set up a compact, one-in-all head-fi system that doesn't give too much ground to a dedicated home system. Currently chewing on whether to use Z1R vs. Utopias.


----------



## AppleheadMay

edn80 said:


> Price point and specifications seem to be on par, though the HA-1 has a better amp than DAC and the Pioneer seems to have a better DAC than amp. I don't expect stellar differences between the two. And that Sony looks sweet!


 
  
 Indeed, when I see the Pioneer U05 it looks like a run off the mill amp/dac to me as well. I remember reading a while ago people like it a lot though and it's the countrepart of the M1 headphone I have and happen to like a lot.
  
 EDIT: I just looked up the specs and it has a Sabre dac. Not always the best idea but surely the brightest. 
 It does have balanced output as well though, something I miss with the Sony.
 Anyway, I'm looking forward to get the TA in the house and give it a try.


----------



## purk

appleheadmay said:


> Indeed, when I see the Pioneer U05 it looks like a run off the mill amp/dac to me as well. I remember reading a while ago people like it a lot though and it's the countrepart of the M1 headphone I have and happen to like a lot.
> 
> EDIT: I just looked up the specs and it has a Sabre dac. Not always the best idea but surely the brightest.
> It does have balanced output as well though, something I miss with the Sony.
> *Anyway, I'm looking forward to get the TA in the house and give it a try.*


 
 You probably won't let it go afterward.  I'm not easily impressed by new gear, but the TA-ZH1ES really make a positive impression on me.  The HA-1 could have been even better if the soundstage is not so constricted...while the HDVD-800's midbass can be a no-no to bassy headphones such as the Z1R.  The ZH1ES renders the low bass very very well.


----------



## AppleheadMay

purk said:


> You probably won't let it go afterward.  I'm not easily impressed by new gear, but the TA-ZH1ES really make a positive impression on me.  The HA-1 could have been even better if the soundstage is not so constricted...while the HDVD-800's midbass can be a no-no to bassy headphones such as the Z1R.  The ZH1ES renders the low bass very very well.


 
  
 The HA-1 is a Sabre dac as well as I recall. The Sony uses a proprietary dac chip?


----------



## Whitigir

appleheadmay said:


> The HA-1 is a Sabre dac as well as I recall. The Sony uses a proprietary dac chip?




Newest SMaster with Analog hybrid circuitry  for the first time


----------



## AppleheadMay

whitigir said:


> Newest SMaster with Analog hybrid circuitry
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 SMaster is developed by Sony then I suppose?
 Any desigen differences between other dacs and Smaster?
 And what exactly do they mean with analog hybrid?
 I read the marketing but it doesn't tell me that much. I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to tech stuff I'm afraid.


----------



## musicday

Curious how the Sony will compare to the Hugo 2 once released. Sony seem to offer more features at a lower price point, but it's not portable.


----------



## Gibraltar

appleheadmay said:


> SMaster is developed by Sony then I suppose?
> Any desigen differences between other dacs and Smaster?
> And what exactly do they mean with analog hybrid?
> I read the marketing but it doesn't tell me that much. I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to tech stuff I'm afraid.


 
  
 Have a look at this PDF. This was released along with the S-Master Pro home theater receivers but the concept behind the technology remains the same.
 https://docs.sony.com/release/strda3000es_twp.pdf


----------



## Whitigir

gibraltar said:


> Have a look at this PDF. This was released along with the S-Master Pro home theater receivers but the concept behind the technology remains the same.
> https://docs.sony.com/release/strda3000es_twp.pdf




Similar, and not the same. The ES home system has direct digital drive, that is direct S-Master into class D. The TA has S-master which is a direct digital drive, but with an injection of Analog processing circuitry somewhere to accurately reproduce the music even further. That is what they said "correct errors that occurs on loads"


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We have brand new U.S. version TA-ZH1es in stock and ready to ship. Email info@wooaudio.com to buy.


----------



## purk

whitigir said:


> Similar, and not the same. The ES home system has direct digital drive, that is direct S-Master into class D. The TA has S-master which is a direct digital drive, but with an injection of Analog processing circuitry somewhere to accurately reproduce the music even further. That is what they said "correct errors that occurs on loads"


 
 Yes, and the TA-ZH1ES sound a good bit smoother and analog compared to that of a traditional Class D amplifier.


----------



## AppleheadMay

gibraltar said:


> Have a look at this PDF. This was released along with the S-Master Pro home theater receivers but the concept behind the technology remains the same.
> https://docs.sony.com/release/strda3000es_twp.pdf


 
  
 Thanks!
 Seems complicated at first sight but explained at length. I'm printing it out and will read it a bit later before I go to bed.


----------



## ichibahnwrx

Anybody try a Beyerdynamic T1 (first or second gen) on this? I am unsure if it will drive it properly (balanced or single ended). I assume that it will, but I would like to hear other's opinions. Thanks!


----------



## purk

ichibahnwrx said:


> Anybody try a Beyerdynamic T1 (first or second gen) on this? I am unsure if it will drive it properly (balanced or single ended). I assume that it will, but I would like to hear other's opinions. Thanks!


 
 Mine drove the HD800 exceedingly well.  I expect the same for the T1.  I purchased mine from @The Source AV


----------



## Leviticus

Amazon just informed me that, instead of February/May, I will receive the TA this Saturday! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm so looking forward to having this beast!


----------



## purk

leviticus said:


> Amazon just informed me that, instead of February/May, I will receive the TA this Saturday!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Amazon USA?


----------



## Leviticus

purk said:


> Amazon USA?


 

 Germany. Also, they are selling it for €300 cheaper than anyone else.


----------



## AppleheadMay

leviticus said:


> Germany. Also, they are selling it for €300 cheaper than anyone else.


 
  
 Germany? Shipping already? I ordered there for 1699€ as well. Haven't got a mail yet.


----------



## AppleheadMay

leviticus said:


> Germany. Also, they are selling it for €300 cheaper than anyone else.


 
  
 When did you place tour order by the way? Mine was January 5.


----------



## Leviticus

appleheadmay said:


> When did you place tour order by the way? Mine was January 5.


 

 Technically speaking, I ordered the Ta on the 5th of January, too. But on that day I also cancelled my first order for the Ta because it had the 'old' price (€1,999) This order was placed on the 28th of December. Don't know if that matters.
  
 I hope you haven't ordered this unit from America because of the voltage/frequencies difference.


----------



## AppleheadMay

leviticus said:


> Technically speaking, I ordered the Ta on the 5th of January, too. But on that day I also cancelled my first order for the Ta because it had the 'old' price (€1,999) This order was placed on the 28th of December. Don't know if that matters.
> 
> I hope you haven't ordered this unit from America because of the voltage/frequencies difference.


 
  
 thanks for the info!
  
 Nope, Germany just like you and at the same price.


----------



## purk

Good lucks guys...enjoy the burn in.  This is a special sounding amp/dac combination.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> Good lucks guys...enjoy the burn in.  This is a special sounding amp/dac combination.




Very much agreed


----------



## Leviticus

Thank you. Have you guys tested the single-ended circuitry of the TA? I won't be able to use the balanced output for as long as my Fostex don't get recabled. What are your impressions when compared with balanced mode?


----------



## phonomat

appleheadmay said:


> thanks for the info!
> 
> Nope, Germany just like you and at the same price.




I think he meant your location.


----------



## AppleheadMay

phonomat said:


> I think he meant your location.


 
  
 Ah, right, 't was late. 
 Nope, I live in Europe so 240V suits me just fine.


----------



## Sarnia

Hi all, first post on Head-fi 

Thanks to all the posters in this thread, There doesn't seem to be much info on this at the moment, so this thread has been a great help.

I've got one of these coming, should be shipping tomorrow.

I ordered it from advancedmp3players.co.uk (no affiliation or connection etc). They are selling it for £1,600, but also give you a 10% discount coupon when you go to leave the site, making it £1,440. I live in the Channel Islands so also get VAT off for an all in £1,200, which seems a pretty good deal to me 

Just thought I'd give a heads-up on the discount as it's not obvious when checking prices.

Very much looking forward to trying this out. I'm very new to this game, and currently have a Mojo. My main use is desktop from my PC, so the Sony makes a lot more sense to me. 

Headphones will be HD600, HD650, HD800 and X2.


----------



## sonics

sarnia said:


> Hi all, first post on Head-fi
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Sarnia and welcome to the forum! I'm also a newbie myself, but share the same interest in the new Sony Signature Series.
 Waiting for my delivery as well. Have to say that you really got a nice deal


----------



## Rob49

sarnia said:


> Hi all, first post on Head-fi
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats....i think i should move to the Channel Islands !


----------



## purk

sonics said:


> Hi Sarnia and welcome to the forum! I'm also a newbie myself, but share the same interest in the new Sony Signature Series.
> Waiting for my delivery as well. Have to say that you really got a nice deal


 
 The TA-ZH1ES should work wonder with your R10 and CD3000.  I love mine.


----------



## sonics

purk said:


> The TA-ZH1ES should work wonder with your R10 and CD3000.  I love mine.


 
  
 Thanks! Based on your positive comments I can't go wrong here... it's the Signature Series core component supposed to pair perfectly with Z1R and others. Can't wait to hear it.


----------



## purk

sonics said:


> Thanks! Based on your positive comments I can't go wrong here... it's the Signature Series core component supposed to pair perfectly with Z1R and others. Can't wait to hear it.


 
 I personally think it actually pair better with the R10 than the Z1R.  A little too much bass together with the Z1R IMO.


----------



## sonics

purk said:


> I personally think it actually pair better with the R10 than the Z1R.  A little too much bass together with the Z1R IMO.


 
 Even better! I'll be close to get the most out of the R10's with it.


----------



## Rob49

How does the ZX2 Walkman sound connected to this ?


----------



## Zirconn

leviticus said:


> Amazon just informed me that, instead of February/May, I will receive the TA this Saturday!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've ordered on 5th. No email and it still shows Feb 17- March 17 as estimated delivery


----------



## Whitigir

rob49 said:


> How does the ZX2 Walkman sound connected to this ?




Excellent if you use the dock and upgraded USB cables. However Zx2 can not digitally output native DSD where as WM1A can


----------



## Rob49

whitigir said:


> Excellent if you use the dock and upgraded USB cables. However Zx2 can not digitally output native DSD where as WM1A can


 
  
 Can you give any feedback, without the dock & upgraded cables ? ( Seeing as i don't have those. ) Thanks.


----------



## purk

rob49 said:


> Can you give any feedback, without the dock & upgraded cables ? ( Seeing as i don't have those. ) Thanks.


 
 It is a noticeably jump in sound quality.  I have similar setup and @Whitigir made me similar USB cable.


----------



## purk

sonics said:


> Even better! I'll be close to get the most out of the R10's with it.


 
 Make sure you play DSD files...and you will be one happy camper.


----------



## audionewbi

Local orders are backlogged indefinitely. First 5 unit sold within first hour. They can't get enough of it. WM1A is basically sold more that what Sony Australia assumed it will sale within the first quarter of release. Good for them!


----------



## Whitigir

rob49 said:


> Can you give any feedback, without the dock & upgraded cables ? ( Seeing as i don't have those. ) Thanks.




Without the dock and USB cables ? I don't even know how to tell you, but as Purk mentioned, it is a noticeable jump in sound quality. It is enough of the significant that I cannot bare direct connect from Zx2 directly into Walkman port on TA even though it also charge the Walkman as well .


----------



## Rob49

purk said:


> It is a noticeably jump in sound quality.


 
  
 Sorry, purk, just to clarify, is that without the dock & upgraded cables ? If so, this would still be worth it. ( When i can afford one ! )


----------



## purk

rob49 said:


> Sorry, purk, just to clarify, is that without the dock & upgraded cables ? If so, this would still be worth it. ( When i can afford one ! )


 
 With both the dock & upgraded usb cable.  The dock alone is worthwhile and it will keep your player charge up while it is acting as a digital transport.  I would get the dock first and upgraded USB cable.


----------



## Rob49

Thanks purk & Whit, i hope i can get to experience for myself, in the future...


----------



## Leviticus

zirconn said:


> I've ordered on 5th. No email and it still shows Feb 17- March 17 as estimated delivery


 
 Sorry to hear that. Don't want to fuel some fire here, but my unit will be here on Friday and not Saturday. Seems like I got extremy lucky. Also, the price is back at €1,999.
  
 Rob49: Once I have my unit and the dock plus upgraded power and usb cable, I will give you some impressions. I have spent some serious money on cables, so I'm expecting fair value in return. 
  
 But trust me, the ZX2 alone will sound just great with the TA. When members like Whitigir tell you that you need the dock and the upgraded cables to hear the Ta's maximum potential, then he's right. But he is still just talking about the last percentages to reach audio perfection. Not being able to afford these accessories shouldn't discourage you.


----------



## Whitigir

rob49 said:


> Sorry, purk, just to clarify, is that without the dock & upgraded cables ? If so, this would still be worth it. ( When i can afford one ! )




The TA alone is an excellent piece of equipment coming from Sony and is worthy of competitions among those very top end of the segments. The sound quality alone coming from an IPad with camera kit and into TA, streaming movies from Netflix is already too good.

If you question is about whether TA is worth it or not ? Yes, TA is worth every pennies even at the MSRP, but there are deals flying around.

TA not only offer excellent balanced configurations but also is a very clean, high quality performances that is worthy to replace many desktop Stacks of DAC+AMP. A very compact, well rounded with high performances


----------



## Rob49

I SO WANT ONE !!


----------



## Rob49

leviticus said:


> Sorry to hear that. Don't want to fuel some fire here, but my unit will be here on Friday and not Saturday. Seems like I got extremy lucky. Also, the price is back at €1,999.
> 
> Rob49: Once I have my unit and the dock plus upgraded power and usb cable, I will give you some impressions. I have spent some serious money on cables, so I'm expecting fair value in return.
> 
> But trust me, the ZX2 alone will sound just great with the TA. When members like Whitigir tell you that you need the dock and the upgraded cables to hear the Ta's maximum potential, then he's right. But he is still just talking about the last percentages to reach audio perfection. Not being able to afford these accessories shouldn't discourage you.


 
  
 It hasn't. I look forward to your impressions.


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> Sorry to hear that. Don't want to fuel some fire here, but my unit will be here on Friday and not Saturday. Seems like I got extremy lucky. Also, the price is back at €1,999.
> 
> Rob49: Once I have my unit and the dock plus upgraded power and usb cable, I will give you some impressions. I have spent some serious money on cables, so I'm expecting fair value in return.
> 
> But trust me, the ZX2 alone will sound just great with the TA. When members like Whitigir tell you that you need the dock and the upgraded cables to hear the Ta's maximum potential, then he's right. But he is still just talking about the last percentages to reach audio perfection. Not being able to afford these accessories shouldn't discourage you.





Totally agreed, and well said 
That is right, the last final % to get the full potentials out of your system only .


----------



## purk

leviticus said:


> Sorry to hear that. Don't want to fuel some fire here, but my unit will be here on Friday and not Saturday. Seems like I got extremy lucky. Also, the price is back at €1,999.
> 
> Rob49: Once I have my unit and the dock plus upgraded power and usb cable, I will give you some impressions. I have spent some serious money on cables, so I'm expecting fair value in return.
> 
> But trust me, the ZX2 alone will sound just great with the TA. When members like Whitigir tell you that you need the dock and the upgraded cables to hear the Ta's maximum potential, then he's right. But he is still just talking about the last percentages to reach audio perfection. Not being able to afford these accessories shouldn't discourage you.


 
  
  


whitigir said:


> Totally agreed, and well said
> That is right, the last final % to get the full potentials out of your system only
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That last 10% is totally worth it, IMO.  Going direct DSD from the Walkman into the ZH1ES is just pure awesomeness man.


----------



## Leviticus

purk said:


> That last 10% is totally worth it, IMO.  Going direct DSD from the Walkman into the ZH1ES is just pure awesomeness man.


 

 Not possible for me when I use the ZX2, at least not native DSD. Can you guys actually use the cradle in combination with the WM1?


----------



## purk

leviticus said:


> Not possible for me when I use the ZX2, at least not native DSD. Can you guys actually use the cradle in combination with the WM1?


 
 Yes, the cradle will work with both the WM1A & Z.  Yup, DSD too!


----------



## Whitigir

Here is the Zx2 cradle with WM1Z in the stock case too


----------



## Muvieguy

whitigir said:


> Here is the Zx2 cradle with WM1Z in the stock case too


I am strongly considering this amp/dac as I already own the Z1R and the gold Walkman have you had any experience with the simaudio moon 430 and if so how does this compare because I am looking for solid state amp?


----------



## latestyle

Mind already made up 80%, but wanted to take a quick, light-hearted poll. Settling on TA for my office rig. Z1R vs. Utopias, and why?


----------



## Whitigir

latestyle said:


> Mind already made up 80%, but wanted to take a quick, light-hearted poll. Settling on TA for my office rig. Z1R vs. Utopias, and why?




I don't have Utopia but I would say to go for anything that fit your financial needs


----------



## TSAVJason

latestyle said:


> Mind already made up 80%, but wanted to take a quick, light-hearted poll. Settling on TA for my office rig. Z1R vs. Utopias, and why?


Absolutely the Utopia unless you are sharing your space with others. The Sony's don't have any leakage and of course the Utopia does as an openback


----------



## Muvieguy

latestyle said:


> Mind already made up 80%, but wanted to take a quick, light-hearted poll. Settling on TA for my office rig. Z1R vs. Utopias, and why?


Agree the Utopia's to me are superior as I own both headsets but Jason is correct go for the Z1R if you need a can that will not have sound leakage.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Did someone say Utopia? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Not my system. It's Jack Wu's pic. Wish it was my system though. I'm jelly for sure.


----------



## Leviticus

hifiguy528 said:


> Did someone say Utopia?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Colour-wise, that is a perfect match.


----------



## onlychild

hifiguy528 said:


> Did someone say Utopia?
> 
> Not my system. It's Jack Wu's pic. Wish it was my system though. I'm jelly for sure.




Which cable is that, DHC ME22 or ME19?


----------



## LaCuffia

Having the Z1R it makes sense for me to jump on this thread.  I am very intrigued by this amp given all the rave reviews by Z1R owners.  The only amps I have now are the Feliks Elise and O2.  The Elise is a tube amp and sounds quite nice with the Z1R but the TA seems to be the amp that would drive the Z1R to maximum potential.   My only concern is pricing and whether folks here believe $2,199 is a competitive price relative to the amps available on the market.  It seems though that the TA has additional features that justify the price tag.
  
 Also, this might be impossible to answer at this point but do you think the TA would be powerful enough to drive, for example, an AKG K1000?   The reason I ask is that I might have the opportunity to get a K1000 but am hesitant because of its reputation for being ridiculously hard to drive.  Keep in mind I am a novice when it comes to amps and don't know anything about specs.


----------



## Whitigir

lacuffia said:


> Having the Z1R it makes sense for me to jump on this thread.  I am very intrigued by this amp given all the rave reviews by Z1R owners.  The only amps I have now are the Feliks Elise and O2.  The Elise is a tube amp and sounds quite nice with the Z1R but the TA seems to be the amp that would drive the Z1R to maximum potential.   My only concern is pricing and whether folks here believe $2,199 is a competitive price relative to the amps available on the market.  It seems though that the TA has additional features that justify the price tag.
> 
> Also, this might be impossible to answer at this point but do you think the TA would be powerful enough to drive, for example, an AKG K1000?   The reason I ask is that I might have the opportunity to get a K1000 but am hesitant because of its reputation for being ridiculously hard to drive.  Keep in mind I am a novice when it comes to amps and don't know anything about specs.




The TA pricing is lower than it price/performances Ratio when compare to other setup


----------



## LaCuffia

I am seriously considering pulling the trigger on this amp next week...I have a feeling it will further unleash the sound beast that is the Z1R.    It also seems to be very versatile and may pair well with many headphones.


----------



## TSAVJason

lacuffia said:


> I am seriously considering pulling the trigger on this amp next week...I have a feeling it will further unleash the sound beast that is the Z1R.    It also seems to be very versatile and may pair well with many headphones.


 In fact your supposition is totally correct. We've tested the amp on pretty much every major headphone and in all cases the amp was definitely a significant performer


----------



## Daroid

Considering the purchase of an amp/DAC combination for my HD800s, and the ZH1ES just caught my eye. I'm quite impressed with what they have managed to achieve, but as I would want to connect the output of my phono pre-amp to the unbalanced line-in it is kind of counter-intuitive that it needs to be transferred to the digital domain and back to analogue. I suppose this is completely unavoidable, right?
 Has anyone had the chance to compare it to the Violectric V281 and could shed some light on how they differ in sound signature?


----------



## phonomat

daroid said:


> Considering the purchase of an amp/DAC combination for my HD800s, and the ZH1ES just caught my eye. I'm quite impressed with what they have managed to achieve, but as I would want to connect the output of my phono pre-amp to the unbalanced line-in it is kind of counter-intuitive that it needs to be transferred to the digital domain and back to analogue. I suppose this is completely unavoidable, right?
> *Has anyone had the chance to compare it to the Violectric V281 and could shed some light on how they differ in sound signature?
> *


*


That is exactly what I would like to know as well.*


----------



## purk

tsavjason said:


> In fact your supposition is totally correct. We've tested the amp on pretty much every major headphone and in all cases the amp was definitely a significant performer


 
  
  


daroid said:


> Considering the purchase of an amp/DAC combination for my HD800s, and the ZH1ES just caught my eye. I'm quite impressed with what they have managed to achieve, but as I would want to connect the output of my phono pre-amp to the unbalanced line-in it is kind of counter-intuitive that it needs to be transferred to the digital domain and back to analogue. I suppose this is completely unavoidable, right?
> Has anyone had the chance to compare it to the Violectric V281 and could shed some light on how they differ in sound signature?


 
 Like Jason had stated above, the ZH1ES is quite an excellent performer.  Personally speaking, I think the ZH1ES can drive the HD800 better than Sennheiser' s very own HDVD-800.  The Violectric V281 is a great sounding amp but, IMO, is a little more colored with smaller sound field than the ZH1ES,  Al though, I didn't get to hear the two amps side by side but I believe that I'm more impressed by the ZH1ES sound so far.  It's sound signature really work well on wide range of different headphones including the HD800.  The build quality on the ZH1ES is also second to none.  I highly recommended it.  I bought mine from @TSAVJason about three weeks ago and I still can't get enough of it.


----------



## Bikr

How does the DAC of the ZH1ES stack up to an Yggy?


----------



## MisterMoJo

lacuffia said:


> I am seriously considering pulling the trigger on this amp next week...I have a feeling it will further unleash the sound beast that is the Z1R.    It also seems to be very versatile and may pair well with many headphones.



I would like to know if this amp is worth the price as well.


----------



## TSAVJason

mistermojo said:


> I would like to know if this amp is worth the price as well.


 

That might depend on how you make use of the ES amp/DAC. If you own a 1Z or 1A DAP (not to push any buttons here) but ....some might say it's worth more when comparing to other other options. The DAC on its own is pretty sweet. The amp is so smooth and musical .......no doubt it's a great value. It is the darling of the Signarure Series Group no doubt! Really all of the series is great but the amp/DAC is a diamond at the price. I say these things not because I'm a dealer but as an enthusiast that is ecstatic about Sony's new Grand Slam! 4 threat pieces that excel in the relative ranges from moderate to TOTL. It's cool to see the company that really made personal/Portable audio happen come back again with great products. 

Sorry, I digress a bit. It's a great amp/DAC it's worth the money and if you're really in the market let me know where you are and ill give you the name of your closest dealer so you can go check it out. If you want to pull the trigger on one PM me and I'll give you a list of stores that have stock for immediate shipping. You can decide which to purchase from,


----------



## E3E

Do you feel like owning one of the new ES series DAPs from Sony is necessary to get the most out of the TA-ZH1ES? I just imagined that they were great for the sake of high quality audio in a portable package, but I'm curious of opinions here. A good source should do just fine, right?


----------



## TSAVJason

e3e said:


> Do you feel like owning one of the new ES series DAPs from Sony is necessary to get the most out of the TA-ZH1ES? I just imagined that they were great for the sake of high quality audio in a portable package, but I'm curious of opinions here. A good source should do just fine, right?


 I've yet to see how nicely if at all other inputs play in the "DSD Remastering" domain works on alternative digital sources. This particular feature is very cool. Not being able to make use of this feature isn't a deal breaker though because just as an amp/DAC the ES is still an amazing performer. 

There are limitations on what a sponsor is allowed to say on the forum so my hope is other current owners chime in. I am an owner and user and my opinion is based on my experience in using it. Hifiguy598 asked me to try a couple things like the new Sony app but I haven't had time yet. I'll have to check it and see how that works as soon as I get the time. Anyone check it out yet?


----------



## purk

bikr said:


> How does the DAC of the ZH1ES stack up to an Yggy?


 
 Not quite there but it is a little better than the Oppo HA-1 and not as good as the NAD M51 IMO.  A DAC out is usually an after thought for any digital amp IMO.
  


e3e said:


> Do you feel like owning one of the new ES series DAPs from Sony is necessary to get the most out of the TA-ZH1ES? I just imagined that they were great for the sake of high quality audio in a portable package, but I'm curious of opinions here. A good source should do just fine, right?


 
  
 It is not necessary but if you own a lot of DSDs and want to play them natively into the ZH1ES without the use of computer then the 1Z & 1A are your only choice.  With that said, DSD sounds incredibly warm and analog with amazing bass definition through the ZH1ES.


----------



## LaCuffia

If I decide on this amp I would run it through my phono preamp and turntable set up. It would seem that the amp is almost tailor made for vinyl playback.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

tsavjason said:


> I've yet to see how nicely if at all other inputs play in the "DSD Remastering" domain works on alternative digital sources. This particular feature is very cool. Not being able to make use of this feature isn't a deal breaker though because just as an amp/DAC the ES is still an amazing performer.
> 
> There are limitations on what a sponsor is allowed to say on the forum so my hope is other current owners chime in. I am an owner and user and my opinion is based on my experience in using it. *Hifiguy598 asked me to try a couple things like the new Sony app *but I haven't had time yet. I'll have to check it and see how that works as soon as I get the time. Anyone check it out yet?


 
  
 Also try the HAP-Z1es music server with TA-ZH1es via USB. A little bird told me the ZH1es's DAC supersedes the HAP's which is already very impressive. I like the HAP server so much I bought two and it beats my SCD-1. If the ZH1 beats the HAP, I'm sold.


----------



## purk

lacuffia said:


> If I decide on this amp I would run it through my phono preamp and turntable set up. It would seem that the amp is almost tailor made for vinyl playback.


 
 Vinyl can get considerably better than the Yggy.  BTW, you can not listen to headphone & preamp output simultaneously.


----------



## purk

hifiguy528 said:


> Also try the HAP-Z1es music server with TA-ZH1es via USB. A little bird told me the ZH1es's DAC supersedes the HAP's which is already very impressive. I like the HAP server so much I bought two and it beats my SCD-1. If the ZH1 beats the HAP, I'm sold.


 
 The ZH1ES's output is very good but I doubt that it will beat your HAP-Z1ES.  The HAP-Z1ES has a dedicated and full-blown analog output stage without having to share the same PSU with the S-master amp on the ZH1ES.  The same analog stage likely will not even fit in the ZH1ES unit.  The SCD-1 is still very good when playing SACD but is no longer great in today's standard.  I used to own a stock SCD-1 and modified SCD-1 myself.  A beautifully made disc spinner but Yggy should easily outclassed it.


----------



## E3E

purk said:


> It is not necessary but if you own a lot of DSDs and want to play them natively into the ZH1ES without the use of computer then the 1Z & 1A are your only choice.  With that said, DSD sounds incredibly warm and analog with amazing bass definition through the ZH1ES.


 

 Thanks for the insight. I plan for this set up to be stationary for the most part. I didn't see the need for the 1Z or 1A, DAPs for myself. Maybe in the future though.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

lacuffia said:


> If I decide on this amp I would run it through my phono preamp and turntable set up. It would seem that the amp is almost tailor made for vinyl playback.




I have yet to use the Z1R through one of our turn tables here but that sounds like a brilliant idea... this amp and headphone combo already sounds analog to me and I am curious to find out. Has anyone here done that yet?


----------



## gonzfi

Anyone compared this amp with the Hugo tt?


----------



## Whitigir

You don't exactly need WM1A/Z to be a transport into TA, just like Purk mentioned, as long as you have a computer or smartphone that play native DSD you are fine. However, I would say that Walkman WM1A/Z is more of a "dedicated" transport as everything is built for it, and that including the S-Master inside the Walkman WM1A/Z and it built. Together with the dock and the upgraded USB cables will bring the best out of the system. Then, on the go, you can always use WM1A/Z as a Portable player. It can natively do upto 5.8 or 11.2 with dock (unconfirmed)....I don't have 11.2 files

I will repeat it again, the pricing of TA is not cheap, but it is competing among those Top tier of High-end Desktop devices. When we are talking about this, the pricing of TA is cheap for what it can do, DAC and Amplifier in a very compact package.


----------



## Sarnia

Is there any benefit in using one of the new Sony DAPs for DSD playback vs straight from a PC? My ZH1ES will be connected to my PC at all times.

I very rarely listen to music anywhere apart from home at my PC, in my car or when traveling alone, so I hadn't bothered getting a DAP. However I can get the WM1A for £624 (approx $749) which seems a good price. 

I've also got the Z1Rs coming, so I like the idea of having the set, so to speak, but for my limited use outside the home I'm not sure that the money for the DAP isn't better spent elsewhere, like on cables.

Any opinions much appreciated.

Edit: Cross-posted this with Whitigir's post above, which answers a lot of my questions. Any opinions still much appreciated.


----------



## E3E

sarnia said:


> Is there any benefit in using one of the new Sony DAPs for DSD playback vs straight from a PC? My ZH1ES will be connected to my PC at all times.
> 
> I very rarely listen to music anywhere apart from home at my PC, in my car or when traveling alone, so I hadn't bothered getting a DAP. However I can get the WM1A for £624 (approx $749) which seems a good price.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm running the same setup as you and feel the same way about the logic behind holding off on the DAPs. Mainly connected to my computer, which is a high end laptop, so I think it should be fine. I just ordered the kimber/sony balanced cable and I'm eager to try them out. It'll be my first time using aftermarket cables (aside from just replacing the bad cables on my SA5000s and CD3000s). 

 I feel like the DAPs aren't needed to get the most out of the amp/DAC at home, but the features alone are nice, and if you want to take the amp somewhere and don't want to lug around a bulky source or something. I mean, the laptop isn't so bad to bring around, but it can't fit in your pocket like these Walkman players can.


----------



## Whitigir

sarnia said:


> Is there any benefit in using one of the new Sony DAPs for DSD playback vs straight from a PC? My ZH1ES will be connected to my PC at all times.
> 
> I very rarely listen to music anywhere apart from home at my PC, in my car or when traveling alone, so I hadn't bothered getting a DAP. However I can get the WM1A for £624 (approx $749) which seems a good price.
> 
> ...




There are distinctive different when playing DSD files from my laptop and or my Smartphones (USB player pro HTC10) vs Zx2 (only PCM up to 172Khz) vs WM1Z as transport. Hell, even FLAC sounds different. As I mentioned, even the USB cables will bring differences as well.

Laptop Asus (ROG) probably 3 years old...foo bar and such, it is almost similar to my Smartphones sound quality into the TA. Most noticeable the soundstage is more Flat and less holographic, still very spherical but the vertical and 3D is more Flat, then that Bass dynamic and it impacts, it is thinner, and less fluid

Zx2 with Dock and assuming Upgraded USB cables: Zx2 is airy with better sense of speed and layering, more 3D and holographical presentation, the bass is impactful and fluid 

Wm1Z with the same Dock and USB cables: warmer than Zx2 very slightly, but bass is deeper and more impactful , the coherent and it fluidity is just excellent and so smooth without any grains. The soundstage is excellent and holographical presentations are top notch, Better than Zx2 by a bit. But without critically listening, the WM1Z only has more warmth and bass resolutions overall in comparison to Zx2. As I mentioned, Zx2 convert DSD to PCM, and WM1Z does not

If you want just easy performances, TA is excellent out of Desktop and laptop systems or IPad without upgraded cables or such....etc....but there is better. 

For someone who always love to Juice and Squeeze the best out of his system like me, get WM1A, Zx2 Dock and Upgraded USB cables....we are talking about another $1k-1.5k here....you will get the best out of TA, unless you also want to upgrade that Powercord as well.

My favorite setup for TA = Zx2 or WM1Z with Dock and Pure Silver USB cables.


----------



## E3E

I'd better start saving then, or find a better job. I'm bleeding money! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The WM1Z is tempting but there's no way I can afford it right now. I think I'll just stick to my desktop setup (DTR essentially) and enjoy what I have.


----------



## Whitigir

e3e said:


> I'd better start saving then, or find a better job. I'm bleeding money!




It is a curse that stick to me....the kind that once I hear the differences to my liking...I can not go back to what it originally was. Sometimes it gets me sick ...because into higher end gears, the differences could cost an arm/leg ...or all limbs together...LOL. I would recommend to appreciate TA out of the box with any of your sources, or devices, unless you want to upgrade to the better performances, then you may realize that you are also struck by the same "curse" as I do . It is not the best feeling for sure


----------



## Sarnia

Thanks E3E and Whitigir, 

Your excellent posts have made my mind up, definitely getting the WM1A. 

Considering that at the start of this December I hardly ever listened to music this has been a crazy journey!


----------



## Whitigir

sarnia said:


> Thanks E3E and Whitigir,
> 
> Your excellent posts have made my mind up, definitely getting the WM1A.
> 
> Considering that at the start of this December I hardly ever listened to music this has been a crazy journey!




You are very welcome, and I am more than happy that I could help. They will be an excellent combo at your desk and even on the go as Both can use 4.4mm balanced cables and the WM1A is a performer as far as DAP go


----------



## Zirconn

leviticus said:


> Sorry to hear that. Don't want to fuel some fire here, but my unit will be here on Friday and not Saturday. Seems like I got extremy lucky. Also, the price is back at €1,999.
> 
> Rob49: Once I have my unit and the dock plus upgraded power and usb cable, I will give you some impressions. I have spent some serious money on cables, so I'm expecting fair value in return.
> 
> But trust me, the ZX2 alone will sound just great with the TA. When members like Whitigir tell you that you need the dock and the upgraded cables to hear the Ta's maximum potential, then he's right. But he is still just talking about the last percentages to reach audio perfection. Not being able to afford these accessories shouldn't discourage you.


 
  
 Don't worry 
 It seems they are really shipping them earlier. Got the email, Jan. 18-20 is the new delivery date.
  
 Since I don't have a dedicated headphones amp, I'm expecting a good upgrade over my Onkyo DP-X1.


----------



## Gibraltar

mtmecraig said:


> I have yet to use the Z1R through one of our turn tables here but that sounds like a brilliant idea... this amp and headphone combo already sounds analog to me and I am curious to find out. Has anyone here done that yet?




It's would be an interesting experiment, but it seems a bit heretical to run your LP signal through digital conversion and back again


----------



## Leviticus

zirconn said:


> Don't worry
> It seems they are really shipping them earlier. Got the email, Jan. 18-20 is the new delivery date.
> 
> Since I don't have a dedicated headphones amp, I'm expecting a good upgrade over my Onkyo DP-X1.


 

 Are you from Germany? Then pray to god amazon won't choose Hermes to deliver the TA to you. It was supposed to be here yesterday, but it seems to be stuck in a distribution center not too far from here. This is so typical for them...


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

gibraltar said:


> It's would be an interesting experiment, but it seems a bit heretical to run your LP signal through digital conversion and back again




Yeah good point ha. I just was stuck on the sound and not the logic


----------



## LaCuffia

purk said:


> Vinyl can get considerably better than the Yggy.  BTW, you can not listen to headphone & preamp output simultaneously.




Not sure what you mean....the turntable needs a phono stage. I've connected all my headphone amps to it and works perfectly fine. I am not an audio expert but is the TA different ?


----------



## Whitigir

I also would like to report that some of the lower trebles and upper mid very fine and subtles details, textures and edges from Zx2 are not as good as WM1Z when act as a transport into TA using the same Dock and USB cables. So definitely WM1Z is a winner if every nit picking % count 

Both is using internal storage btw


----------



## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> I also would like to report that some of the lower trebles and upper mid very fine and subtles details, textures and edges from Zx2 are not as good as WM1Z when act as a transport into TA using the same Dock and USB cables. So definitely WM1Z is a winner if every nit picking % count
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No, I'm not buying the 1Z. Enough is enough! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Man, it's really taking ages for my dock to arrive from Japan....


----------



## TSAVJason

leviticus said:


> No, I'm not buying the 1Z. Enough is enough!
> 
> Man, it's really taking ages for my dock to arrive from Japan....


 

Buy a 1A. They'll be available in US soon and the ES amp/DAC will enhance its performance .....and at $1200 USD. ...much less of an investment


----------



## Zirconn

leviticus said:


> Are you from Germany? Then pray to god amazon won't choose Hermes to deliver the TA to you. It was supposed to be here yesterday, but it seems to be stuck in a distribution center not too far from here. This is so typical for them...


 
  
 Romania.
 Amazon.co.uk/de usually ships expedited deliveries through UPS. Never had any problems with expedited deliveries but I can't say the same about the standard ones.


----------



## TSAVJason

sarnia said:


> Is there any benefit in using one of the new Sony DAPs for DSD playback vs straight from a PC? My ZH1ES will be connected to my PC at all times.
> 
> I very rarely listen to music anywhere apart from home at my PC, in my car or when traveling alone, so I hadn't bothered getting a DAP. However I can get the WM1A for £624 (approx $749) which seems a good price.
> 
> ...


 That's seriously cheap. If you can really get it for that price you shouldn't be here on headfi, you should be buying it instead. Hurry go get it!!!


----------



## Sarnia

tsavjason said:


> That's seriously cheap. If you can really get it for that price you shouldn't be here on headfi, you should be buying it instead. Hurry go get it!!!


 
 Hi Jason,
  
 I live in Guernsey, Channel Islands, which are part of the British Isles. We don't pay VAT here, so when purchasing from Amazon UK we get the 20% tax removed. At the moment Amazon UK have it for £748.66, which less VAT is £623.88. That is purchased directly from Amazon, not a third-party, so no concerns about warranty, fakes etc.
  
 Amazon UK have some very strange pricing algorithms. I've seen there's been a lot of discussion about it on the MDR Z1R thread. I've been trying to study it for a couple of years, and haven't got it figured out yet. Sometimes it's impacted by third-party sellers prices, but sometimes it moves drastically even when there are no other sellers. Some items never move, others fluctuate like crazy. I've saved myself a small fortune by waiting and buying when it fluctuates down.
  
 I've also got a good deal on the MDR-Z1Rs, when they were just above £1,388, which is (£1,157 ex-Vat) a few days ago. Now they've jumped up to £1,581. They've got a pair on Amazon Warehouse which were around £1,350 this morning, then jumped to £1,454 around lunchtime. Who knows why...


----------



## TSAVJason

sarnia said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> I live in Guernsey, Channel Islands, which are part of the British Isles. We don't pay VAT here, so when purchasing from Amazon UK we get the 20% tax removed. At the moment Amazon UK have it for £748.66, which less VAT is £623.88. That is purchased directly from Amazon, not a third-party, so no concerns about warranty, fakes etc.
> 
> ...




Bottom line is that is a crazy low price. You should be all over that like flies on stink!


----------



## Sarnia

Hi Jason, don't worry, it's ordered


----------



## TSAVJason

sarnia said:


> Hi Jason, don't worry, it's ordered


 :thumbsup_tone1:


----------



## Leviticus

tsavjason said:


> Buy a 1A. They'll be available in US soon and the ES amp/DAC will enhance its performance .....and at $1200 USD. ...much less of an investment


 

 Already have the ZX2. So far people advice against upgrading from the ZX2 to the 1A. This will hold true especially when the Walkman just serves as a transport.


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> Already have the ZX2. So far people advice against upgrading from the ZX2 to the 1A. This will hold true especially when the Walkman just serves as a transport.




If you don't need DSD Native transport, the Zx2 is just fine


----------



## LaCuffia

So could I connect my iPhone via the micro USB port to the TA and listen on the 4.4 balanced input?


----------



## purk

lacuffia said:


> So could I connect my iPhone via the micro USB port to the TA and listen on the 4.4 balanced input?




Not directly I don't think unless u use the camera kit for digital out. 


I am with @ Whitigr as well regarding a Walkman being a better digital transport than computer. I was using jriver and outboard coaxial to USB converter and definitely preferred the Walkman over it.


----------



## LaCuffia

Another way for iPhone connect would be through RCA/3.5 mm cable.


----------



## purk

lacuffia said:


> Another way for iPhone connect would be through RCA/3.5 mm cable.


 
 That is a bad way of doing.  You don't want to feed analog signal into digital amp.  You should feed digital signal into digital amp in order to get the very best result.  Having the amp to digitize an analog signal into a digital domain will yield less than ideal results.  This is well known on any digital amp.


----------



## Newport

Guess Sony made the decision not to make the ZH1ES compatible with Apple iDevices (like iPhone) as they reckon ZH1ES owners will likely not use iPhone as resolution is restricted to 16/44, This will save Sony on licencing fees to Apple with benefit of less circuit/component clutter. Only Sony's portable dac/amps like PHA-3 are iPhone compatible.

I only use the ZH1ES analog input for connecting to phono amp/vinyl or playing SACD.


----------



## Whitigir

newport said:


> Guess Sony made the decision not to make the ZH1ES compatible with Apple iDevices (like iPhone) as they reckon ZH1ES owners will likely not use iPhone as resolution is restricted to 16/44, This will save Sony on licencing fees to Apple with benefit of less circuit/component clutter. Only Sony's portable dac/amps like PHA-3 are iPhone compatible.
> 
> I only use the ZH1ES analog input for connecting to phono amp/vinyl or playing SACD.




You can use Apple Devices such as IPhones and IPad with Camera kit. You can use MAC without driver or camera kit by connecting in the USB B port


----------



## Newport

What I meant is that one cannot connect iPhone directly to ZH1ES for a digital connection like PHA-3.


----------



## sonics

I think one should be able to connect iPhone with CCK cable and OTG USB cable to the micro USB port of ZH1ES.


----------



## LaCuffia

That's what I meant initially - with CCK cable. The way it is done with the Mojo.


----------



## sonics

lacuffia said:


> That's what I meant initially - with CCK cable. The way it is done with the Mojo.



Yes, exactly


----------



## LaCuffia

I am pretty much set on getting the TA. I would get the most out of my Z1R and have it as an option to drive other headphones I am considering in the future, such as the 800S.


----------



## Whitigir

If you have consideration about TA, you have to go for it. It is just that good


----------



## LaCuffia

whitigir said:


> If you have consideration about TA, you have to go for it. It is just that good




Trusted your opinion on the Z1R and that was worth it so I am confident in this too.


----------



## gonzfi

Is the usb galvanically isolated on this amp does anyone know?


----------



## Whitigir

gonzfi said:


> Is the usb galvanically isolated on this amp does anyone know?




I don't get the question ?


----------



## gonzfi

whitigir said:


> I don't get the question ?



Not sure how else to phrase it? Let's try... does anyone know if the usb input is galvanically isolated?


----------



## LaCuffia

I am not sure anyone will know that type of detail. Maybe ask Sony.


----------



## latestyle

Hey, guys, kind of a curveball question here. Am pretty set on using the TA as the center of my office rig, pretty excited. One question - what is the most elegant way to have Tidal Master + Roon interface with the TA without much sonic degradation? As you know, one can now stream hi-rez/MQA via Tidal, but only from the desktop app. This probably means I should maybe upgrade my old laptop with some USB interface from SOtM or Regen to hand the bits off to TA, rather than use something like microRendu? 
  
 Confusing my head, PC-fi is.


----------



## echineko

gonzfi said:


> Not sure how else to phrase it? Let's try... does anyone know if the usb input is galvanically isolated?


 
 I've seen a few people ask that question regarding the new Chord products too, if I may be a bit ignorant, what is the point of galvanic isolation? What benefits does it bring?


----------



## Sarnia

A new member of the family has just arrived


----------



## Whitigir

sarnia said:


> A new member of the family has just arrived




Nice! Enjoy it !


----------



## gonzfi

echineko said:


> I've seen a few people ask that question regarding the new Chord products too, if I may be a bit ignorant, what is the point of galvanic isolation? What benefits does it bring?



I don't actually know!!! I ask the question and then wonder why I ask it because I have no idea what I'm talking about. I think it's a good thing to have it though.


----------



## Leviticus

I'm joining the club, too. Now I have to wait for the cradle and the upgraded cables.


----------



## Sarnia

whitigir said:


> Nice! Enjoy it !


 
 Thanks Whitigir 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Only listened for a few minutes using HD600 and HD650. Now I understand what people mean when they say they scale well. What a difference to a Mojo. I much preferred the HD600 through the Mojo, the bass of the HD650 felt uncomfortable in some way. Through the ZH1ES they both sound fantastic.
  
 Now I just need my Z1R and HD800S to arrive so I can try the balanced output...


----------



## Whitigir

sarnia said:


> Thanks Whitigir
> 
> Only listened for a few minutes using HD600 and HD650. Now I understand what people mean when they say they scale well. What a difference to a Mojo. I much preferred the HD600 through the Mojo, the bass of the HD650 felt uncomfortable in some way. Through the ZH1ES they both sound fantastic.
> 
> Now I just need my Z1R and HD800S to arrive so I can try the balanced output...




Going all out! I see


----------



## Sarnia

whitigir said:


> Going all out! I see


 
 No messing around here (until the Wife sees the bill and tries to make me send it all back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). 
  
 The WM1A should arrive tomorrow too, so looking forward to lots of listening fun. I managed to get a pair of EX1000s for what I think was a good price to use with the Walkman. Just need to figure out how to get them on a balanced cable.


----------



## Sarnia

leviticus said:


> I'm joining the club, too. Now I have to wait for the cradle and the upgraded cables.


 
 Congrats! Be interested to hear what you think, so far I think the best word I can use is WOW.


----------



## phonomat

gonzfi said:


> I don't actually know!!! I ask the question and then wonder why I ask it because I have no idea what I'm talking about. I think it's a good thing to have it though.




Best and most hilarious post I've read here in a while. By this alone, you've won the internet.


----------



## Leviticus

sarnia said:


> Congrats! Be interested to hear what you think, so far I think the best word I can use is WOW.


 
  
 I am already amazed. This thing is pure sex. The soundstage is killer.... . I also think that the DSD Rendering works quite nicely, but I need to investigate further.
  
 Man, I can't wait for the the cradle and the cables. Also, I need to get my TH900 balanced as quickly as possible.


----------



## gonzfi

phonomat said:


> Best and most hilarious post I've read here in a while. By this alone, you've won the internet.



Haha thanks. I've never won the internet before. Will update my CV immediately.


----------



## Whitigir

sarnia said:


> Congrats! Be interested to hear what you think, so far I think the best word I can use is WOW.




Wow is the correct word , and I will say this, anyone who have heard this TA will have the impression of it being worthy of the price tag, period. So in reality, and my experiences, the TA is worth more than it price tag

Welcome guys ! Fill us up ! We need this thread to fly up, high and away above the sky


----------



## LaCuffia

I ordered the TA yesterday....getting it Thursday.  Looking forward to it very much.


----------



## Leviticus

Guess what: the cradle just arrived!


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> Guess what: the cradle just arrived!




Notice the differences yet ?  congratulation ! I love this set up, so compact, so sexy, and the quality is outa this world


----------



## purk

leviticus said:


> Guess what: the cradle just arrived!


 
 Congrats man!!!  Now get the TH900 reterminated with 4 pin XLR to get most out of the TA-ZH1ES.  It is a beauty right?


----------



## Whitigir

I just can never get enough of the TA


----------



## Muvieguy

I really would love to purchase the TA but really want to know if anyone could compare it to the moon 430HA!!!!!


----------



## TSAVJason

sarnia said:


> Thanks Whitigir
> 
> Only listened for a few minutes using HD600 and HD650. Now I understand what people mean when they say they scale well. What a difference to a Mojo. I much preferred the HD600 through the Mojo, the bass of the HD650 felt uncomfortable in some way. Through the ZH1ES they both sound fantastic.
> 
> Now I just need my Z1R and HD800S to arrive so I can try the balanced output...


 My bet is you'll be giving that amp a big hug after spending time with it!


----------



## purk

@ Sarnia,
  
 You may prefer the HD800S out of the ZH1ES even more than the Z1R.  Keep us posted!


----------



## Leviticus

purk said:


> Congrats man!!!  Now get the TH900 reterminated with 4 pin XLR to get most out of the TA-ZH1ES.  It is a beauty right?


 

 I'm still not sure if I should reterminate the TH900 (don't know who could do that for me) or send the headphones to Moonaudio to get a balanced Silver Dragon cable... You got any advice for me?


----------



## AppleheadMay

leviticus said:


> I'm still not sure if I should reterminate the TH900 (don't know who could do that for me) or send the headphones to Moonaudio to get a balanced Silver Dragon cable... You got any advice for me?


 
  
 I personally wouldn't use silver on a TH-900 unless you like superbright. In the TH-900 cables there were a few people not liking that combo as well.
 I'd keep the stock cable and put the Lawton mods on it, much more efficient. If you send the cans to Lawton he can reterminate your cable as well.


----------



## Whitigir

I used silver and it was just fine, however with silver/gold it would be better. Or you can just go with ultra pure copper.


----------



## Leviticus

I just contacted Toxic Cables in the UK. Maybe they can reterminate the TH-900 and leave the stock cable as it is.
  
@Whitigir: The Black Dragon cable would be pretty good then since it uses copper? ("4 x 21.5AWG Teflon insulated stranded conductors using pure single crystallized UP-OCC pure copper with 7N purity 99.99998%.")
  
 Moon Audio actually says that the Black Dragon cables are the most musical sounding ones with lots of bass.


----------



## Whitigir

Yeah, that sounds about rights


----------



## Sarnia

purk said:


> @ Sarnia,
> 
> You may prefer the HD800S out of the ZH1ES even more than the Z1R.  Keep us posted!


 
 Will do. Just wish they'd both hurry up and get here. The Z1R shipped today, so should be here by early next week at the latest. 
  
 The HD600/650 both sound very good out of it. Can't decide which one I prefer. Saying that I have an ear infection at the moment (great timing), so anything with too much bass isn't comfortable, so the HD600 is getting the most playtime.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

anyone try any Gado's out of the amp? I did the SR80e the other day for curiosity and it was very sweet sounding. I liked it personally but then I tried the Grado RS1e and i couldn't tell if it was too syrupy or not ha.


----------



## LaCuffia

I used to have a 80e. It was very good for the price but Grado really needs to update ergonomics and comfort level. They feel like cheese graters on my ears. Had other Grados but issues are same even with higher end headphones.

Anyway, getting the TA today and will give my impressions soon.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

I have a pair of 80e's at home that have the bass mod done to them. I put L cush pads on them and will say that the sound stage is a little wider but definitely doesn't  do any justice for comfort.... I totally agree with you. I just love them so much with classic rock that I just accept it for what its worth. I have yet to hear a ps100e and always wanted to. I just figured if the higher end Grados could have the sharp highs and forceful sound it could be a great combo with this amp.  It's sad to see that they aren't on the list for CanJam NY.
  
 Awesome you get it today!! Bet you are itching for it to arrive. Look forward to hear more impressions


----------



## dreambass

This is actually reviewed on what hi-fi for what it's worth.


----------



## XERO1

http://www.whathifi.com/sony/ta-zh1es/review


----------



## AppleheadMay

xero1 said:


> http://www.whathifi.com/sony/ta-zh1es/review


 
  
 Thanks for that one!


----------



## Whitigir

Do we have new owners ?


----------



## LaCuffia

They seem to say the same thing about all Sony products....

Got the TA today. First, the packaging itself is so well done. The TA itself is so solid and elegantly designed. It feels like it can withstand a missle strike! Just a great look and feel to it. Very impressive. Second, I haven't spend that much time listening but from what I heard it sounds really nice indeed just out of unbalanced output. I'd imagine several hours of burn in is needed to reach full potential. One thing I was surprised about is I had to use the hi gain option and I am not one to listen to ear splitting loud music either. 

Will spend more time with it before posting more impressions....


----------



## purk

lacuffia said:


> They seem to say the same thing about all Sony products....
> 
> Got the TA today. First, the packaging itself is so well done. The TA itself is so solid and elegantly designed. It feels like it can withstand a missle strike! Just a great look and feel to it. Very impressive. Second, I haven't spend that much time listening but from what I heard it sounds really nice indeed just out of unbalanced output. I'd imagine several hours of burn in is needed to reach full potential. One thing I was surprised about is I had to use the hi gain option and I am not one to listen to ear splitting loud music either.
> 
> Will spend more time with it before posting more impressions....


 
 It does produce good but not a great amount of power but it should be enough even for some harder to drive Orthos.


----------



## Whitigir

Yeah, low Gain is relatively.....so little  and high gain is always on for me


----------



## LaCuffia

whitigir said:


> Yeah, low Gain is relatively.....so little  and high gain is always on for me




Good to know I'm not the only one...


----------



## Naim.F.C

whitigir said:


> Yeah, low Gain is relatively.....so little
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 As in low gain isn't loud enough? I find that perplexing because I don't even reach half way on the volume pot with the Z1R's on either my O2, HP-A4BL or V200 on low gain. Either I listen to stuff at lower volume than you guys, or the TA-ZH1ES is not that powerful? Anyone know what sort of power it puts out at 32ohm single ended and balanced?


----------



## nanaholic

naim.f.c said:


> As in low gain isn't loud enough? I find that perplexing because I don't even reach half way on the volume pot with the Z1R's on either my O2, HP-A4BL or V200 on low gain. Either I listen to stuff at lower volume than you guys, or the TA-ZH1ES is not that powerful? Anyone know what sort of power it puts out at 32ohm single ended and balanced?


 
  
 Balanced: 1,200 mW + 1,200 mW (32 ohms 1 kHz 1%) Unbalanced: 300 mW + 300 mW (32 ohms 1 kHz 1%)


----------



## Naim.F.C

nanaholic said:


> Balanced: 1,200 mW + 1,200 mW (32 ohms 1 kHz 1%) Unbalanced: 300 mW + 300 mW (32 ohms 1 kHz 1%)


 
  
 So the V200 and O2 are more powerful in single ended, but the TA-ZH1ES has more power output it in Balanced.


----------



## Whitigir

naim.f.c said:


> So the V200 and O2 are more powerful in single ended, but the TA-ZH1ES has more power output it in Balanced.




Yes, that appear to be the case, the 300 mW is like Pha3 powerful


----------



## AppleheadMay

I don't have the ZH1ES yet but I used low gain almost exclusively on every amp I owned, I always like the sound better on low gain and experienced more distortion on high.
 I usually have mostly cans that are easy to drive though.
  
 A question: what other dac/amps that have both a great dac and quality amp could one consider apart from the ZH1ES? 
 I had a few myself but usually liked separate amps on my Marantz dac better.


----------



## LaCuffia

What strikes me about the TA is it is very much in line with the characteristics of the Z1R. It's so smooth and musical without a hint of glare or harshness. I have pretty good tube amp and even that sounds more aggressive than the TA. That's not to say there is lacking dynamics though. It's just tuned to maximum non-fatiguing enjoyment.


----------



## Whitigir

lacuffia said:


> What strikes me about the TA is it is very much in line with the characteristics of the Z1R. It's so smooth and musical without a hint of glare or harshness. I have pretty good tube amp and even that sounds more aggressive than the TA. That's not to say there is lacking dynamics though. It's just tuned to maximum non-fatiguing enjoyment.




Pretty much for engagements and musicality through and through


----------



## Sarnia

whitigir said:


> Yeah, low Gain is relatively.....so little  and high gain is always on for me


Same for me. Maybe it's my imagination but it has a fuller sound on high gain. 

The HD800S arrived yesterday. Initially they weren't quite what I expected. Within minutes they gave me a headache. Swapping them with HD600, headache gone. Back on, headache back. I also preferred the sound of the HD600. 

Later I turned the volume up and the HD800S really began to shine. On certain tracks the HD600s merged the sounds of the various instruments and the vocals together, whereas the HD800S separated them beautifully 

I need to do a lot more testing. I don't want to feel I have to have the volume cranked up. I want to keep my hearing, plus I have an almost 3 year old daughter so need to be able to hear the baby monitor over the music when she's sleeping. 

Fingers crossed the Z1Rs and the WM1A should arrive today or tomorrow, so looking forward to more comparative listening. 

Even if I love the Z1Rs, I need an open pair too for when I'm on toddler watch duty. 

Regardless of which headphones I'm using, the ZH1ES continues to impress me. The sound is so much richer than my Mojo in a good way. It's also very straight forward to use despite the technology inside.


----------



## Gonzi

Got my TA-ZH1ES.
 Actually don't like it out of the box with Z1R (+ kimber balanced): bass is too boomy, soundstage depth shrinks.
 All compared to Teac UD-503 + external clock.
 Need time to break in.
  
 But contrary it is very good with HD650 balanced. Not as good as tube amp but very close to that.


----------



## Whitigir

Sony, when will you release "Goldplated Copper Chassis TA-ZH1ES" ?????


----------



## Zirconn

Got the thing. It sounds beautifully when combined with MDR-Z1R.
 Money well spent


----------



## Gonzi

gonzi said:


> Actually don't like it out of the box with Z1R (+ kimber balanced): bass is too boomy, soundstage depth shrinks.


 
  
 Interesting... I've changed kimber to stock balanced cable - and now bass is almost perfect.
 Looks like old balanced kimber (MUC-B20BL1) is not ideal for pairing TA-ZH1ES and Z1R.


----------



## LaCuffia

Continue to be impressed by the TA...awesome piece of equipment.
  
 I don't have any experience with balanced cables and wanted to know whether the Sony 4.4 one is comparable to others in the market using the left and right output.  Is there any appreciable advantage to the latter as opposed to the single 4.4, and, if so, what are some other reasonably priced cables besides Kimber?   I actually don't like the feel of the Kimber cable - too stiff and kind of noisy when you move it around.  That's just based on experience on the standard 3.5 mm one.


----------



## LaCuffia

gonzi said:


> Interesting... I've changed kimber to stock balanced cable - and now bass is almost perfect.
> Looks like old balanced kimber (MUC-B20BL1) is not ideal for pairing TA-ZH1ES and Z1R.


 

 I didn't like the Kimber unbalanced cable with the Z1R so perhaps it isn't a good pairing in general.  Too dark sounding as compared to the stock (unbalanced).


----------



## Whitigir

I like stock cables, and I think it is actually pretty good, only lacking here and there. Hence, I am inspired by stock cables configuration with the usage of Silver Plated Copper. This is OCC materials ...only waiting my 4.4m


----------



## Whitigir

lacuffia said:


> Continue to be impressed by the TA...awesome piece of equipment.
> 
> I don't have any experience with balanced cables and wanted to know whether the Sony 4.4 one is comparable to others in the market using the left and right output.  Is there any appreciable advantage to the latter as opposed to the single 4.4, and, if so, what are some other reasonably priced cables besides Kimber?   I actually don't like the feel of the Kimber cable - too stiff and kind of noisy when you move it around.  That's just based on experience on the standard 3.5 mm one.




All balanced sockets shall be the same, different cables will sound different. Ofcourse there are many cables, but good cables never come cheap


----------



## LaCuffia

Just curious about good headphone pairings so far with the TA apart from the Z1R. I think some have commented on the following: Utopia, 800s, SE M1, TH900, and HD600/650. Anybody try the Elear with it?


----------



## AppleheadMay

lacuffia said:


> Just curious about good headphone pairings so far with the TA apart from the Z1R. I think some have commented on the following: Utopia, 800s, SE M1, TH900, and HD600/650. Anybody try the Elear with it?


 
  
 Who tried the SEM1 with it? What was their opinion on the pairing?


----------



## Whitigir

I may want to go for elear since it uses the same plugs


----------



## echineko

whitigir said:


> I may want to go for elear since it uses the same plugs


 
 Try it first.


----------



## Whitigir

echineko said:


> Try it first.




Probably not though , the Z1R is pretty perfect for me, the only thing I would complain is because of how large it is, and the protruded cups is very hard to lay in bed with


----------



## echineko

whitigir said:


> Probably not though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The Elear is nowhere near the same level of enjoyment as the Z1R, differences in the design aside.


----------



## AppleheadMay

whitigir said:


> I may want to go for elear since it uses the same plugs


 


echineko said:


> Try it first.


 


echineko said:


> The Elear is nowhere near the same level of enjoyment as the Z1R, differences in the design aside.


 
  
  
 The Elear isn't all that good, another bit of a hype thing IMO. Get a HD650 along your Z1R instead, I found it more enjoyable.
 With the money saved you can get a nice silver cable for the HD650 and make it a top can.


----------



## echineko

appleheadmay said:


> The Elear isn't all that good, another bit of a hype thing IMO. Get a HD650 along your Z1R instead, I found it more enjoyable.
> With the money saved you can get a nice silver cable for the HD650 and make it a top can.


 
 Something I'm actually curious about, how will the new ZMF dynamic headphones sound with this amp? I've got a lot of affection for Zach's tuning/house sound, so would love to try them out with this amp.
  
 I did spend considerable time with my HD 800S on this amp, I thought it was a really good pairing (normal SE socket though, wonder if the 4.4mm balanced would kick things up a notch).


----------



## LaCuffia

I found the HD650 to be very uncomfortable. Clamping pressure was bad. Ear pads too stiff feeling. I know I am in the minority opinion on comfort.


----------



## AppleheadMay

lacuffia said:


> I found the HD650 to be very uncomfortable. Clamping pressure was bad. Ear pads too stiff feeling. I know I am in the minority opinion on comfort.


 
  
 I usually haven't got much comfort issues with phones unless they're too loose and I'm not a fan of too light either.
 I love a bit of weigh and clamping. The most comfortable headphone I have ever tried is the Utopia.
 I
 don't really have a worst headphone when it comes to comfort but I didn't really find the HD800 comfortable for example. My problem with is was much too big cups, loose and sliding. But I'm probably more in the minority than you on that front. Most people find the HD800 very comfortable and Smyth Research even recommends them for movie watching with their Realiser spcifically for the comfort. I'll be using the Z1R with the Realiser probably.


----------



## phonomat

Wouldn't you want something with a bigger soundstage though? SE-M1 has a nice spacious feel to it, and when I tried the Realiser, I thought it must be a great match. Understand if you need a closed solution for watching/gaming though. Will you use it for music listening as well?


----------



## AppleheadMay

phonomat said:


> Wouldn't you want something with a bigger soundstage though? SE-M1 has a nice spacious feel to it, and when I tried the Realiser, I thought it must be a great match. Understand if you need a closed solution for watching/gaming though. Will you use it for music listening as well?


 
  
  
 I'd prefer closed cans for movies and games, less disturbing when the I'm in the same room with my wife. I'll try the M1 as well for sure though!
 The Realiser? No, only for movies and games. You tried it? What were your impressions?


----------



## Whitigir

The best of being closed back is privacy .


----------



## starblue

appleheadmay said:


> Who tried the SEM1 with it? What was their opinion on the pairing?





I have been using the SEM1 with ZH1ES exebsively alongside the Z1R. Sounds exrenely good even via unbalanced output.


----------



## phonomat

appleheadmay said:


> I'd prefer closed cans for movies and games, less disturbing when the I'm in the same room with my wife. I'll try the M1 as well for sure though!
> The Realiser? No, only for movies and games. You tried it? What were your impressions?




I posted some short impressions somewhere before, but don't remember where it was. Anyhow, incredible experience; I was sure what I heard was the sound seeping in from the outside of the HD800 they were demoing it with, and that the headphone was just dead. Grinned from ear to ear when I realised what was going on. Perhaps the most eerie audio experience of my life, even more stunning than hearing a proper surround system for the first time back when, because it all comes from the freakin' can. Absolutely stunning. Try it with a decent subwoofer or a Subpac if you don't want to disturb the wife, and I'd say you're in for quite a treat.


----------



## Leviticus

There is something odd going on with my TA. Every once in a while the sound from the right cup of my TH900 simply disappears. I can solve the problem by plugging out and then plugging in my headphone cable. This problem first occured 2 days ago. Strange...


----------



## TSAVJason

leviticus said:


> There is something odd going on with my TA. Every once in a while the sound from the right cup of my TH900 simply disappears. I can solve the problem by plugging out and then plugging in my headphone cable. This problem first occured 2 days ago. Strange...


Hit up your dealer. They should exchange it right away.


----------



## MisterMoJo

leviticus said:


> There is something odd going on with my TA. Every once in a while the sound from the right cup of my TH900 simply disappears. I can solve the problem by plugging out and then plugging in my headphone cable. This problem first occured 2 days ago. Strange...


 
 does this happen with different headphones?  Could be your TH900's.


----------



## Naim.F.C

leviticus said:


> There is something odd going on with my TA. Every once in a while the sound from the right cup of my TH900 simply disappears. I can solve the problem by plugging out and then plugging in my headphone cable. This problem first occured 2 days ago. Strange...


 
  
 Make sure it's not the headphone first before returning/replacing the amp itself. Could be a driver failure in the TH900.


----------



## AppleheadMay

phonomat said:


> I posted some short impressions somewhere before, but don't remember where it was. Anyhow, incredible experience; I was sure what I heard was the sound seeping in from the outside of the HD800 they were demoing it with, and that the headphone was just dead. Grinned from ear to ear when I realised what was going on. Perhaps the most eerie audio experience of my life, even more stunning than hearing a proper surround system for the first time back when, because it all comes from the freakin' can. Absolutely stunning. Try it with a decent subwoofer or a Subpac if you don't want to disturb the wife, and I'd say you're in for quite a treat.


 
  
 Thanks! That thing is the one I'm looking forward to most!


----------



## AppleheadMay

starblue said:


> I have been using the SEM1 with ZH1ES exebsively alongside the Z1R. Sounds exrenely good even via unbalanced output.


 
  
 About time A-zon got some stock then.


----------



## Hooster

gonzfi said:


> Is the usb galvanically isolated on this amp does anyone know?


 
 Sorry for late reply, but I have no idea.
  
 Regarding galvanic insulation, the point is to insulate the dac from electric crud coming from your computer through the usb cable. (For more details google usb cable construction and function). If you are not sure whether your dac is galvaniclally insulated or not, then you can insulate it by connecting the usb line from your computer to a powered usb hub and then connect that to your dac.  If it is a proper powered usb hub, then it will isolate the dac from garbage coming out of the computer. 
  
 In some cases a powered usb hub is an incredibly cost effective way to upgrade to a hifi system.


----------



## Whitigir

Finally, I got my cables !


----------



## Leviticus

Is there a reason why there's always a white towel in your pictures?


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> Is there a reason why there's always a white towel in your pictures?




To cover some sensitive wall paper behind


----------



## AppleheadMay

whitigir said:


> To cover some sensitive wall paper behind


 
  
 Pics or it didn't happen.


----------



## Leviticus

appleheadmay said:


> Pics or it didn't happen.


 

 I agree. We would never report any of your posts, would we? 
  
 Good news: My brother who lives in Hamburg (right around the corner from where I live) will re-terminate my Fostex headphones. He has a master's degree in electronics, which raises the following question: Why the heck didn't I think of him ealier?


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> I agree. We would never report any of your posts, would we?
> 
> Good news: My brother who lives in Hamburg (right around the corner from where I live) will re-terminate my Fostex headphones. He has a master's degree in electronics, which raises the following question: Why the heck didn't I think of him ealier?




In ancient China, there is a saying: "your own god is never a miracle !" It can be interpreted that as of us, human being, it is in our nature that we don't appreciate things around us "naturally", and seek for alternative things that may helps. It means even if you have a "Personal god" for your needs, you would seek the helps from other people "personal god" instead.

In Buddhism, us human, we have a mechanism that protect us from under every situations, and that is the mechanism of "equality and normalization". Under the circumstances or environment or situations, we adapt, and we normalize them all, and by that we no longer be pulled deeper into a "depressions from the loss of a partner" , for example. Sadly, this mechanism triggers every where and every time. A rich person never realizes that he is rich, and a poor person never realized that he is poor. A Person who is foolishly in love never realized that he is a fool. It is the same as a person who is being loved , never realized that she is being loved. We never appreciated for our ability to walk, but a person in a wheelchair will dream and trade everything to be able to do so (my apologize, no offends)....etc...etc...this also naturally create "greed" in our nature as well, because what we have is never enough 

So, your situation is normal . Hence, there is a saying, always be grateful for what you have, only until then you would realize how wonderful your life is !

Damn...sorry about the preaching, I just want to share


----------



## Leviticus

Amen, Father. How does your new cable pair with the TA? And what kind of cable is that?


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> Amen, Father. How does your new cable pair with the TA? And what kind of cable is that?




It is a DIY cables that I made and was inspired by Sony Z1R stock cables (copper and silverplated copper hybrid). However, my cables is of larger sizes and is made for the Trio with better wires quality OCC. I have been enjoying too much of my WM1Z, and only listened to TA for a bit.

Let's say I am a cable maniac, and I made cables based on my own experiences and preferences . So you can be sure that it pairs very well with Wm1Z and even TA. This cables preserve the warmth and bass slam, but only balances it out a bit. Because after all I still love authoritative bass slams and that musicality warmth.....I only dislike it when there is too much of it, Stock z1R cables has a lot of it  and also lacks in detail retrieval


----------



## starblue

appleheadmay said:


> About time A-zon got some stock then.


 

 You mean Amazon? Looks like they do have it in stock. Unlike Amazon US, Amazon JP doesn't sell them but you can find plenty on local marketplace (kikaku.com). Not sure about Amazon in other countries.


----------



## AppleheadMay

starblue said:


> You mean Amazon? Looks like they do have it in stock. Unlike Amazon US, Amazon JP doesn't sell them but you can find plenty on local marketplace (kikaku.com). Not sure about Amazon in other countries.


 
  
 I mean Germany, where I preordered it.


----------



## starblue

appleheadmay said:


> I mean Germany, where I preordered it.


 

 Got it. I can always buy and ship from here if you like


----------



## AppleheadMay

starblue said:


> Got it. I can always buy and ship from here if you like


 
  
  
 Would be nice if it wasn't for the voltage difference and about 35% import here. 
 But thank you for the offer, really nice of you!


----------



## starblue

appleheadmay said:


> Would be nice if it wasn't for the voltage difference and about 35% import here.
> But thank you for the offer, really nice of you!


 

 No problem mate. I know how frustrating waiting can be. Hope you get your soon.


----------



## TSAVJason

starblue said:


> No problem mate. I know how frustrating waiting can be. Hope you get your soon.


 

You kind of need to be careful when it comes to amps and such. Some don't have switchable power supplies which is what they are territory specific. EU is on 220v 50hz and it's better power than here in the US or the 100v Japan uses. When components have "Wall Warts" (transformer power cables) it's much less likely to have issues with respect to AC power.


----------



## starblue

Hi mate, Yes, I am aware. Have 2 amps which I really like and weren't available for Japan voltage when I bought. Running them with a 100 to 220V step up transformer .


----------



## Whitigir

starblue said:


> Hi mate, Yes, I am aware. Have 2 amps which I really like and weren't available for Japan voltage when I bought. Running them with a 100 to 220V step up transformer .




Step-up transformer sucks for audio quality, I hope you know that.


----------



## starblue

whitigir said:


> Step-up transformer sucks for audio quality, I hope you know that.


 

 No, I am not aware of it. I have a step up transformer with more than enough headroom and my Line magnetic LM 2018A plugged to it and paired with my Dali Helicons doesn't sound sh!tty to me. 
  
 Could it be better? may be. But then I have other avenues to pursue for refinement


----------



## Whitigir

starblue said:


> No, I am not aware of it. I have a step up transformer with more than enough headroom and my Line magnetic LM 2018A plugged from it and paired with my Dali Helicons doesn't sound sh!tty to me.
> 
> Could it be better? may be. But then I have other avenues to pursue for refinement




Lol , whichever float your boats


----------



## starblue

whitigir said:


> Lol , whichever float your boats


 

 Exactly!


----------



## TSAVJason

starblue said:


> Exactly!


 He is right. You're definitely not getting your money's worth in the performance you paid for. Maybe you can ask the manufacturer if they can change out your power supply to the correct voltage.


----------



## starblue

Hi mate, i get it.

Thing is - i bought these two amps way back in Hong Kong when I wasnt aware of the vacuum tube scenario in Japan. With over 35kgs the LM218A will be a pain to ship back for any kind of change. Not worth IMO. Instead I am slowly phasing these out from Japan to my bro who lives in 220V country. Thats a one way shipping that I can live with given I want to keep the amps.

In Japan, the 100V McIntosh and Denon are my main work horses. But when fired the LM does a great job. Call it tube coloration or what but I i simply like it for some music.

So for now I will keep the 220V amps until I can offload them wothout loss


----------



## purk

tsavjason said:


> He is right. You're definitely not getting your money's worth in the performance you paid for. Maybe you can ask the manufacturer if they can change out you power supply to the correct voltage.




Very true. A 5-year ES North America ultra warranty is why I decide to purchase this amp/DAC from an authorized dealer, which is this case from you. A transformer is a no-no in my book as well.


----------



## Sarnia

Just a heads-up for those in Europe,Amazon UK's price has just dropped to £1,418.65, which is the best price I've seen.


----------



## beowulf

sarnia said:


> Just a heads-up for those in Europe,Amazon UK's price has just dropped to £1,418.65, which is the best price I've seen.




I was just about to post this. Just got a camelcamelcamel notification email. It's the lowest price indeed. 

Had to control myself not to order, but one virtue of the Z1R is sounding good with many amps. I'll wait for the ZH1ES to drop some more.


----------



## AppleheadMay

sarnia said:


> Just a heads-up for those in Europe,Amazon UK's price has just dropped to £1,418.65, which is the best price I've seen.


 
  
 Thanks for the tip man, exact the same price as my preorder in Germany which could take another 1-3 months.
 Canceled Germany, ordered UK and should have it by Tuesday.
  
 Love you!


----------



## Leviticus

appleheadmay said:


> Thanks for the tip man, exact the same price as my preorder in Germany which could take another 1-3 months.
> Canceled Germany, ordered UK and should have it by Tuesday.
> 
> Love you!


 
 When I received my unit from amazon Germany  there was a power cable for the UK and a power cable for Germany included. So you should receive the correct power cable.


----------



## AppleheadMay

leviticus said:


> When I received my unit from amazon Germany  there was a power cable for the UK and a power cable for Germany included. So you should receive the correct power cable.


 
  
 Yep, I know the plugs are different in the UK and since it's the exact same price they might as well come from the same A** warehouse.
 But I wasn't worried about it, I have a few nice powercables lying around gatherings dust so I'll use one of those instead.


----------



## Sarnia

beowulf said:


> I was just about to post this. Just got a camelcamelcamel notification email. It's the lowest price indeed.
> 
> Had to control myself not to order, but one virtue of the Z1R is sounding good with many amps. I'll wait for the ZH1ES to drop some more.


Impossible to know with Amazon's pricing algorithms, but it may not drop much lower, and will go up to full price when the current stock has sold. 

For a couple of weeks they've had 7 in stock. That went to 8 yesterday. It didn't look like they were selling many, if any, which is why the algorithm had dropped the price. But it pretty much always goes back up when the stock runs out. 

They've got 3 left in stock, so sold 5 after this price drop. 




appleheadmay said:


> Thanks for the tip man, exact the same price as my preorder in Germany which could take another 1-3 months.
> Canceled Germany, ordered UK and should have it by Tuesday.
> 
> Love you!


My pleasure mate. I also posted a few days ago for you about advancedmp3players.co.uk where I got mine, as their price with standard discount was just above this. Good to have the Amazon returns etc though.


----------



## AppleheadMay

sarnia said:


> Impossible to know with Amazon's pricing algorithms, but it may not drop much lower, and will go up to full price when the current stock has sold.
> 
> For a couple of weeks they've had 7 in stock. That went to 8 yesterday. It didn't look like they were selling many, if any, which is why the algorithm had dropped the price. But it pretty much always goes back up when the stock runs out.
> 
> ...


 
 Yep, I could get it for a little less here locally, 1699€. Problem is if I don't like it I can't return it. Like the A**** service.
 Just returned the Sony/Kimber by the way. Too stiff and I prefer sleeved cables. Going to order me something Toxic instead.


----------



## emptymt

appleheadmay said:


> Yep, I could get it for a little less here locally, 1699€. Problem is if I don't like it I can't return it. Like the A**** service.
> Just returned the Sony/Kimber by the way. Too stiff and I prefer sleeved cables. Going to order me something Toxic instead.


 

 I know the price difference is huge but how big of a difference will this make compared to Mojo -> Liquid carbon could make? Is the tonality similar(LC is also a warm, is the TA warmer, etc)?
 I'm thinking to pick up the z1r as an all use case kinda headphone and I've heard that it sounds great out of modest setup.
  
 Would be great if a bundle deal pops up, hehe.
  
 thx guys!


----------



## TokenGesture

I'd love some comparisons with the Mojo, Hugo, Violectric. At the moment I don't feel I know much abut how these sound with the Z1R other than "awesome" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I mean, are they so awesome as requiring a Z1R owner to trade in his kit for them?


----------



## phonomat

Judging by the review that was posted earlier, I have no fear of missing out if I stick with my trusty Vio 281. I'll naturally take a listen if the opportunity presents itself, but I'm good for the moment. YMMV, of course.


----------



## Lemieux66

Has anyone tried the TA-ZH1ES with LCD3 yet? I wonder how good it would sound with the LCD3 balanced cable.

I'm using my NW-WM1A via line-out with a Leben CS300XS and the LCD3 and wonder which combo would sound best?

I just managed to restrain myself from buying one as the minutes ran out on Amazon UK for next day delivery! I suppose I could justify it purely as a DAC and still use the Leben but have two great headphone amps in one system?


----------



## TSAVJason

lemieux66 said:


> Has anyone tried the TA-ZH1ES with LCD3 yet? I wonder how good it would sound with the LCD3 balanced cable.
> 
> I'm using my NW-WM1A via line-out with a Leben CS300XS and the LCD3 and wonder which combo would sound best?
> 
> I just managed to restrain myself from buying one as the minutes ran out on Amazon UK for next day delivery! I suppose I could justify it purely as a DAC and still use the Leben but have two great headphone amps in one system?


 Actually by coincidence I just tried that combo last week. It turns out to be a more exciting pairing than I had expected. The ES amp seems to like every dynamic and planar I've tried other than the Abyss. The Abyss demands a lot of power unlike the LCD3 or LCD4


----------



## Lemieux66

tsavjason said:


> Actually by coincidence I just tried that combo last week. It turns out to be a more exciting pairing than I had expected. The ES amp seems to like every dynamic and planar I've tried other than the Abyss. The Abyss demands a lot of power unlike the LCD3 or LCD4




Hmm so it worked well 

On a different note, I keep reading conflicting things about the LCD3. Sometimes I've read that it needs lots of power (e.g. Audeze website says 1-4W, which seems more than most headphone amps offer), and that it's hard to drive. Yet I've read reports that it's easy to drive and that my WM1A will have no problem with it. It's so confusing!


----------



## TSAVJason

lemieux66 said:


> Hmm so it worked well
> 
> On a different note, I keep reading conflicting things about the LCD3. Sometimes I've read that it needs lots of power (e.g. Audeze website says 1-4W, which seems more than most headphone amps offer), and that it's hard to drive. Yet I've read reports that it's easy to drive and that my WM1A will have no problem with it. It's so confusing!


 

Hmmmm interesting. I'd say the 1A is going to be at the top of its output stage to get the LCD3 up and punching but for a low lever volume classical listener it should be ok on the 1A. It will still seem more difficult to push but you'll have a little headroom on the VC if you're not asking the Amp to push the LCD3 to a dynamic punchy level.


----------



## emptymt

lemieux66 said:


> Hmm so it worked well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 This is based on my experience with the Ether series by Mrspeakers, which is another planar.
 I do think that Planars are harder to drive despite the impedance being low.
 Going from a chord Mojo to Cavalli liquid Carbon yield big improvements in dynamic and fullness, with big soundstage and punchier bass.
 These are the part where I think, power makes a good amount of improvements.
 You may say that it is because of the amp, but the difference is quite significant and the mojo by itself should be plenty powerful for the ethers, so this big difference shouldn't be this big.
  
 Audeze cans should be about the same or even harder to drive compared to the Ethers, note that I have never owned the LCD series due to weight problem so, my hypothesis may not be accurate.
 However, the TA-ZH1ES should be powerful enough to drive almost all headphone available since I think it has adequate power.
 Except you're going for the HE-6


----------



## svinaik

Folks, one question I need help on.
  
 I recently got a cable made by Double Helix folks with the TRRS termination for the Sony ZX2 and headphone end is 2.5mm mono for the Oppo PM1.
  
 When I plugged this cable into the TA-ZH1ES, I could only get sound from one side of the can. I checked again and no issues with directly plugging the cable into ZX2 as both Left and right side are perfect but with ZH1ES, it is only working on one side.
  
 Same issue when I plugged the cable into Sony A37 walkman.
  
 Any guidance.
  
 Thanks much


----------



## Whitigir

svinaik said:


> Folks, one question I need help on.
> 
> I recently got a cable made by Double Helix folks with the TRRS termination for the Sony ZX2 and headphone end is 2.5mm mono for the Oppo PM1.
> 
> ...




What are you trying to do ? TA clearly indicated which port support balanced output. There is 0 output for 3.5mm TRRS Balanced of Zx2 style. Stop doing that before you ruin your TA. If you would like, you can buy a 3.5mm TRRS adapter to any Balanced out supported by the TA


----------



## Whitigir

By the way, here is the review on the whole Eco system with a hint into the TA performances. The throughout review on Ta alone will be coming later 

Enjoy 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/829770/new-sony-signature-personal-audio-ecosystem-us-exclusive#post_13202469


----------



## svinaik

whitigir said:


> What are you trying to do ? TA clearly indicated which port support balanced output. There is 0 output for 3.5mm TRRS Balanced of Zx2 style. Stop doing that before you ruin your TA. If you would like, you can buy a 3.5mm TRRS adapter to any Balanced out supported by the TA


 

 Thanks Whitigir... What an error in my thinking. I totally forgot that  I am connecting on the unbalanced port on the TA.
  
 Thank you for reminding me and saving my TA. Truly obliged.


----------



## Gibraltar

svinaik said:


> Thanks Whitigir... What an error in my thinking. I totally forgot that  I am connecting on the unbalanced port on the TA.
> 
> Thank you for reminding me and saving my TA. Truly obliged.




There is no possibility of doing any damage to an amp by plugging a TRRS cable into an unbalanced jack. It'll either work fine or give you one channel of sound. Please don't state guesses as if they're facts.


----------



## Whitigir

gibraltar said:


> There is no possibility of doing any damage to an amp by plugging a TRRS cable into an unbalanced jack. It'll either work fine or give you one channel of sound. Please don't state guesses as if they're facts.




What ? 3.5m, TRS is normally shorter than TRRS sir....I broke my laptop port this way along time ago while I used it for gaming...specifically I plugged a TRRS in ear with mic into it while laptop had 2 ports TRS 1 for audio and another for mic...it was a sad freaking moment


----------



## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> What ? 3.5m, TRS is normally shorter than TRRS sir....I broke my laptop port this way along time ago while I used it for gaming...specifically I plugged a TRRS in ear with mic into it while laptop had 2 ports TRS 1 for audio and another for mic...it was a sad freaking moment


 
 The manuals also state that the device can be damaged when you plug an unbalanced connector into one of the balanced jacks.


----------



## Leviticus

.


----------



## Gonzi

whitigir said:


> What ? *3.5m, TRS is normally shorter than TRRS sir*....I broke my laptop port this way along time ago while I used it for gaming...specifically I plugged a TRRS in ear with mic into it while laptop had 2 ports TRS 1 for audio and another for mic...it was a sad freaking moment


 
 Not necessary. There are 2 different lengths: 15 and 17mm. But there are no one standard for layout of TRRS 3.5 mm and compatibility between different TRRS (and between TRRS and TRS) is not guaranteed.
 TRRS socket used in mobile phones is obviously compatible with TRS plugs. But TRS socket in different amps could be or could be not compatible with TRRS plug (e.g. iems with mic). I've met both cases.


----------



## Gibraltar

leviticus said:


> The manuals also state that the device can be damaged when you plug an unbalanced connector into one of the balanced jacks.




This is correct, but we were discussing plugging a balanced connector into an unbalanced jack. The result in this case is that the ground contact will likely only connect with the - sleeve of one channel on the cable, hence one channel of audio.


----------



## svinaik

whitigir said:


> What ? 3.5m, TRS is normally shorter than TRRS sir....I broke my laptop port this way along time ago while I used it for gaming...specifically I plugged a TRRS in ear with mic into it while laptop had 2 ports TRS 1 for audio and another for mic...it was a sad freaking moment


 

 I will have to agree with Whitigir on this. Brise Audio, who make connector from 4.4mm to 3.5MM clearly state to only plug in TRRS (4 pole) and that plugging 3 pole (TRS) into the connector will damage the WM1 units. So the logic must apply in the situations where the TRRS is being plugged into the unbalanced port.
  
 Either way, why take a chance and in any case plugging TRRS into unbalanced was my mistake and the sound was not coming out of one of the cans. So nothing is to be gained from plugging in TRRS into the unbalanced port.


----------



## GoDiSLoVe

sarnia said:


> Just a heads-up for those in Europe,Amazon UK's price has just dropped to £1,418.65, which is the best price I've seen.


 

 Thnx for this tip Sarnia! 
 Now there is 4 left in the stock


----------



## Rob49

The price is now £ 1.411.74p


----------



## Montage

Has anyone tried the Sony TA-ZH1ES USB input connected to a Sonore microRendu configured in RoonReady or HQ Player NAA mode? Given the improvement I've heard from other DAC's connected to the microRendu I'd be very interested in any feedback, particularly on the connectivity with HQ Player e.g. Direct DSD or DoP, maximum DSD rate supported.
  
Thanks,
Montage


----------



## audionewbi

montage said:


> Has anyone tried the Sony TA-ZH1ES USB input connected to a Sonore microRendu configured in RoonReady or HQ Player NAA mode? Given the improvement I've heard from other DAC's connected to the microRendu I'd be very interested in any feedback, particularly on the connectivity with HQ Player e.g. Direct DSD or DoP, maximum DSD rate supported.
> 
> Thanks,
> Montage


 
 Normally you dont want to do this with 1ES, it already has its own hardware for upsampling.


----------



## Montage

The majority of DAC's utilise upsampling within the chip, the argument for HQ Player is that the upsampling algorithms are often superior and can be tuned to the user preferences. This may or may not be true in this case, hence my question.


----------



## Whitigir

montage said:


> The majority of DAC's utilise upsampling within the chip, the argument for HQ Player is that the upsampling algorithms are often superior and can be tuned to the user preferences. This may or may not be true in this case, hence my question.




TA has only 3 DSP features and that is : DC phase linearization, DSEE HX and DSD remastering. All of these can be turned off


----------



## Zirconn

whitigir said:


> TA has only 3 DSP features and that is : DC phase linearization, DSEE HX and DSD remastering. All of these can be turned off


 
  
 With all DSP off, TA upsamples any PCM data to PCM 384kHz 32bit
 DSD data is played directly.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Anybody got this thing to work on a Mac?
 Have been trying for half an hour now. The device gets discovered in the system and all apps.
 Straight from iTunes the track starts to play in Itunes but no sample rate is displayed on the Sony and no sound.
 With BitPerfect the track doesn't start to play, no sample rate displayed and no sound. These apps hang as well.
 With Roon and Audirvana the track starts to play, the sample rate displays but no sound. Well, I did get sound for a second with Roon though.
 Not sure what to do here. My other Dac just works and any Dac I ever tried was just plug and play.


----------



## Zirconn

montage said:


> Has anyone tried the Sony TA-ZH1ES USB input connected to a Sonore microRendu configured in RoonReady or HQ Player NAA mode? Given the improvement I've heard from other DAC's connected to the microRendu I'd be very interested in any feedback, particularly on the connectivity with HQ Player e.g. Direct DSD or DoP, maximum DSD rate supported.
> 
> Thanks,
> Montage


 
  
 This is my Onkyo DP-X1, outputing DoP. I tried to enable Direct Transfer but the TA displayed PCM as input, so no go.


----------



## Whitigir

zirconn said:


> This is my Onkyo DP-X1, outputing DoP. I tried to enable Direct Transfer but the TA displayed PCM as input, so no go.




Probably your DP-x1 limitation. With Mac user, you need driver ? I don't own a MAC, I know Windows do need driver and the recommended high-res player from Sony

Btw, isn't that picture showing TA 11.2 to 11.2 already ?


----------



## AppleheadMay

whitigir said:


> Probably your DP-x1 limitation. With Mac user, you need driver ? I don't own a MAC, I know Windows do need driver and the recommended high-res player from Sony


 
  
 Nope, no driver needed.


----------



## Zirconn

I'm toying with JRiver. Windows 10, TA on USB, ASIO Driver. Test file is the same 11.2Mhz DSF.
  
 I forced the output as 8xDSD (22.4Mhz) and the sound gets interrupted. Can be JRiver, my motherboard's USB or TA. I suspect it's JRiver. 
 4xDSD(11.2Mhz), as shown in the Onkyo image, works flawlessly.
  
 I can't test it with Sony's Hi-Res Audio Player because I don't have any 22Mhz file.
  
  
 In any case, it seems it supports Direct DSD and DoP @ 11.2Mhz. Probably 22.4Mhz too, since it was displaying DSD22.4Mhz / 1 bit -> DSD22.4Mhz / 1 bit with the aforementioned interrupts.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Hmm, got it to work on my MacBook. Probably too much USB stuff connected to the iMac, the poor thing seems to flip when I connect the Sony.
  
 Not very powerful on unbalanced out is it? On low gain I can bear the Z1R at max volume.
 On high gain I can bear as much as -10db. Ok, that's damn loud but if I would pump any of my EC amps to 90% on a Z1R I think the drivers would be somewhere midbrain.
 From what I read it would be much more powerful balanced but as I have no balanced phones and no interest to go balanced at all since all my other amps are single-ended I'm not sure this amp is for me.
  
 Will try it out tomorrow for SQ and see what I'll decide but it doesn't look like I will keep this.
 If anyone in Europe is interested to get it at the same low price I got it from Amazon UK without having to wait for the preorder you can PM me.
 Else I can return it to Amazon for a full refund as well.


----------



## turbo87

appleheadmay said:


> Hmm, got it to work on my MacBook. Probably too much USB stuff connected to the iMac, the poor thing seems to flip when I connect the Sony.
> 
> Not very powerful on unbalanced out is it? On low gain I can bear the Z1R at max volume.
> On high gain I can bear as much as -10db. Ok, that's damn loud but if I would pump any of my EC amps to 90% on a Z1R I think the drivers would be somewhere midbrain.
> ...


 
 But aren't you connecting your Z1R via the 4.4mm balanced to the TA?


----------



## AppleheadMay

turbo87 said:


> But aren't you connecting your Z1R via the 4.4mm balanced to the TA?


 
  
 I can but I don't see the point. 
 I have 3 other amps: Zana, BW and soon the Realiser. All these will are single ended.
 I have 4 pairs of cans including the Z1R and I want them all to work on all my amps so they all use a 1/4 plug.
 What's more, the Z1R's primary use will be on the Realiser.


----------



## Whitigir

Single ended is about 800mW only...so yeah, it is very weak in SE

Edit: My bad, it is 300mW in SE and 1200 mW in Balanced


----------



## LaCuffia

It's odd because I find the unbalanced output to be louder and punchier than the 4.4 output.


----------



## AppleheadMay

lacuffia said:


> It's odd because I find the unbalanced output to be louder and punchier than the 4.4 output.


 
  
 Haven't tried the 4.4 yet, will do so tomorrow and see how I like the SQ compared to the EC amps.


----------



## Lemieux66

If what Whitigir said is correct and the TA does output SE 800mW, then that sounds like more than enough to drive most headphones to deafening levels - my Leben CS300XS is around that figure and my LCD-3 could destroy my hearing if I turned it up all the way.

The guy above who's playing at full volume and can barely hear it must have a faulty unit. Otherwise it makes no sense.


----------



## Gonzi

Single ended output power is 300 mW per channel at 32 Omh.


----------



## Whitigir

gonzi said:


> Single ended output power is 300 mW per channel at 32 Omh.




You are right, i stand corrected. SE is only 300mW and Balanced is 1200mW. So yeah, that is relatively low level for SE. Anyways, I always had to have that High-Gain on


----------



## zare

Anyone noticed dropouts during USB playback? Connected to my laptop with FooBar or Tidal. Sounds like loosing lock for second. 
  
 Will try different laptop(have jRiver there) and cable tonight.


----------



## Sarnia

zare said:


> Anyone noticed dropouts during USB playback? Connected to my laptop with FooBar or Tidal. Sounds like loosing lock for second.
> 
> Will try different laptop(have jRiver there) and cable tonight.


I get the same, just for half a second or so. That's from Qobuz.


----------



## zare

sarnia said:


> I get the same, just for half a second or so. That's from Qobuz.


 
  
 Tried on different laptop with jRiver and Tidal, no problem. I suggest to try some other source just to confirm.


----------



## svinaik

Folks

Is there any difference in sound quality if 1A or 1Z is feeding the TA-ZH1ES ?

Thanks


----------



## Sarnia

zare said:


> Tried on different laptop with jRiver and Tidal, no problem. I suggest to try some other source just to confirm.


 
 I'm pretty sure it only does it when I receive an e-mail. Need to test and confirm though.


----------



## ross1974

Guys a difficult question: I would like the cable that connects the Walkman to the amp to be longer.
Does a longer cable exist or an extension??


----------



## TSAVJason

ross1974 said:


> Guys a difficult question: I would like the cable that connects the Walkman to the amp to be longer.
> Does a longer cable exist or an extension??


 Not yet but I understand Sony is bringing one out at twice the length it is currently


----------



## ross1974

That would be handful


----------



## ross1974

By the way the sound of the Sony signature series combo is out of this world.


----------



## Leviticus

ross1974 said:


> Guys a difficult question: I would like the cable that connects the Walkman to the amp to be longer.
> Does a longer cable exist or an extension??


 
  
 You could just buy the cradle and a long USB A-B cable.


ross1974 said:


> By the way the sound of the Sony signature series combo is out of this world.


 
 It isn't. It is out of Japan. (...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Lemieux66

Saw this review just now:

http://www.whathifi.com/sony/ta-zh1es/review


----------



## turbo87

It was posted before I believe here. I wish there were more reviews from other sources though. stereophile, Absolute Sound, etc.


----------



## Lemieux66

Ordered the last TA on Amazon UK tonight just before the next-day delivery option ran out. Then I had to cancel because I'd used the wrong card for the transaction. After cancelling, I re-ordered with the right card but it then says it'll take 1-2 months to dispatch! I must have confused their system. Do you think it will actually arrive in the next two days like it said it would (as when I ordered it it was in stock) or will it take 1-2 months?


----------



## AppleheadMay

lemieux66 said:


> Ordered the last TA on Amazon UK tonight just before the next-day delivery option ran out. Then I had to cancel because I'd used the wrong card for the transaction. After cancelling, I re-ordered with the right card but it then says it'll take 1-2 months to dispatch! I must have confused their system. Do you think it will actually arrive in the next two days like it said it would (as when I ordered it it was in stock) or will it take 1-2 months?


 
  
 They'll have one again in a week or so, just sent mine back.
  
 I finally found some time today to try it out and compare it to my setup.
 First of all I have to say that from memory it beats every amp/dac combo I ever had or heard, it's on par with some separate amps and dacs.
 But compared to my Marantz NA-11 S1 combined with the EC Black Widow (I tried the Zana as well but that one was out of the Sony's league) the Sony comes pretty close but has a little less clarity, detail and spaciousness.
 What was most obvious though was bass control and that's mainly amp department. The Sony didn't come close to the control both my EC amps have over the bass, it was a very obvious difference.
  
 Still, if I didn't have the money or space to go with separates I could easily live with this amp, it has all I want. You only notice the difference when comparing.


----------



## Lemieux66

appleheadmay said:


> They'll have one again in a week or so, just sent mine back.
> 
> I finally found some time today to try it out and compare it to my setup.
> First of all I have to say that from memory it beats every amp/dac combo I ever had or heard, it's on par with some separate amps and dacs.
> ...




I'm not too fussy about the nth degree of sound quality from electronics TBH. I've got my LCD-3 and I find they are good enough with whatever I drive them with. The Sony, however, has so many great features and is nice and compact so it seems a good fit for me.

Re: my Amazon order, it was in stock when I ordered it so I don't see how me cancelling and then re-ordering it would cause the difference in delivery time unless I've confused their system and it thought my original order still stood at the time of the new order. That would explain the dispatch estimate as I had ordered the last one the first time.


----------



## E3E

The price of the WM1Z is great on Amazon UK right now. I can't squeeze that purchase just yet, but if it stays that way, I'll be tempted to go full circle with my Signature Series setup.


----------



## beowulf

e3e said:


> The price of the WM1Z is great on Amazon UK right now. I can't squeeze that purchase just yet, but if it stays that way, I'll be tempted to go full circle with my Signature Series setup.


 
  
 I almost got one, and the ZH1ES too but had to control myself since they are solutions for problems I don't have. I want them because they are quite good, but my current player/sources are doing a good job. Decided to direct those funds instead to something I didn't have: A few good IEMs.


----------



## E3E

beowulf said:


> I almost got one, and the ZH1ES too but had to control myself since they are solutions for problems I don't have. I want them because they are quite good, but my current player/sources are doing a good job. Decided to direct those funds instead to something I didn't have: A few good IEMs.


 
 That's a very good point though, beowulf. I still feel like the WM1Z isn't worth the likely marginal improvement from my current setup, considering it's not a meager amount. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## ross1974

e3e said:


> That's a very good point though, beowulf. I still feel like the WM1Z isn't worth the likely marginal improvement from my current setup, considering it's not a meager amount. Decisions, decisions.




I honestly couldn't tell the difference between that and the 1A


----------



## Rob49

lemieux66 said:


> Re: my Amazon order, it was in stock when I ordered it so I don't see how me cancelling and then re-ordering it would cause the difference in delivery time unless I've confused their system and it thought my original order still stood at the time of the new order. That would explain the dispatch estimate as I had ordered the last one the first time.


 
  
 It is possible that someone placed an order, while you were cancelling & re-ordering.
  
 I'd be surprised if you had to wait 1 - 2 months, considering they had decent stock levels previously, but you never know ?


----------



## Whitigir

Wm1Z is more like a luxurious statement to yourself and to others. The differences could be observe if you listen straight from the 1Z itself to 1A as a DAP, I don't know if 1A and 1Z can be so much different as a transport, but I could always be wrong until I have a chance to compare them though.


----------



## Lemieux66

rob49 said:


> It is possible that someone placed an order, while you were cancelling & re-ordering.
> 
> I'd be surprised if you had to wait 1 - 2 months, considering they had decent stock levels previously, but you never know ?




Seems unlikely but certainly possible.

I asked Amazon what happened and got a very long 12 paragraph reply that basically suggested the same as you. The rest was '...our customer focused approach blah blah blah'.

They did say that they spoke to their supply people and will try to get one ASAP specially for me but who's knows when it'll be in stock again?


----------



## Rob49

lemieux66 said:


> Seems unlikely but certainly possible.
> 
> I asked Amazon what happened and got a very long 12 paragraph reply that basically suggested the same as you. The rest was '...our customer focused approach blah blah blah'.
> 
> They did say that they spoke to their supply people and will try to get one ASAP specially for me but who's knows when it'll be in stock again?


 
  
 I don't think they will miss out on a sale, you would expect them to do all they can. I find Amazon to be a very "customer based" company, even though their employers probably don't get the same, treatment !


----------



## Whitigir

Yeah, Amazon is great ! I love Amazon too


----------



## AppleheadMay

Anyone compared the Sony to the Chord Dave by any chance?


----------



## Lemieux66

The plot thickens...

Earlier I wrote about ordering the last TA on Amazon UK, then subsequently cancelling the order and reordering as I'd used the wrong payment card, only to be told it would then take 1-2 months to dispatch.

Just now I canceled the item again as I'd rather wait until they come back into stock and the price might change too, only to find that after cancelling, there is now 1 in stock!

I think Amazon's stock system is going wrong somewhere. If I order it again will it now be despatched from stock?


----------



## Rob49

I was going to post earlier to say there was one in stock ( A returned item ?? )


----------



## Lemieux66

rob49 said:


> I was going to post earlier to say there was one in stock ( A returned item ?? )




I really don't know, it's highly confusing.

They did say in the customer service email that they'd try specially to get one sooner for me. But they never informed me that one came in or that dispatch would be imminent.

My credit card has the funds pending but I guess that's just because I ordered it, rather than any indicator of an imminent charge coming?

Makes no sense.


----------



## Rob49

Have you re-ordered, or cancelled altogether ?


----------



## Lemieux66

rob49 said:


> Have you re-ordered, or cancelled altogether ?




Cancelled altogether now. That's why it's so weird - I'm told it'll take 1-2 months, then as soon as I cancel the order, one appears in stock.

I hope someone here orders it and it turns up quickly for them.


----------



## Rob49

lemieux66 said:


> Cancelled altogether now. That's why it's so weird - I'm told it'll take 1-2 months, then as soon as I cancel the order, one appears in stock.
> 
> I hope someone here orders it and it turns up quickly for them.


 
  
 You're not taking a chance then ?


----------



## Lemieux66

rob49 said:


> You're not taking a chance then ?




It was a bit of a financial leap anyway just now, so maybe I'm better to wait a bit...I'm still not sure if the TEAC UD-501/503 plus Sony charging dock might be a better option, as I still have my Leben to use as a headphone amp. I do like that I could use my LCD-3 with the Sony's 4pin XLR balanced output though...aargh!


----------



## Rob49

lemieux66 said:


> It was a bit of a financial leap anyway just now, so maybe I'm better to wait a bit...I'm still not sure if the TEAC UD-501/503 plus Sony charging dock might be a better option, as I still have my Leben to use as a headphone amp. I do like that I could use my LCD-3 with the Sony's 4pin XLR balanced output though...aargh!


 
  
 I'd like one too, but finances don't allow, sadly.


----------



## Sarnia

lemieux66 said:


> Cancelled altogether now. That's why it's so weird - I'm told it'll take 1-2 months, then as soon as I cancel the order, one appears in stock.
> 
> I hope someone here orders it and it turns up quickly for them.


 
 I'm guessing your order, cancellation and re-order just confused their system and your amp's been in limbo until you just cancelled it again.


----------



## hugopua

Hi, 
 
I found out one issue. The TA-ZH1ES auto upsampling to PCM352.8/32bit when both DSEE HX and DSD remastering are off. This issue is happen when playback PCM files but not problems for dsd format. 
 
Anyone can check their unit got such problem or not? Thank you.


----------



## audionewbi

How are you playing the files? Most likely it's your Music playback software which is set incorrectly.


----------



## hugopua

audionewbi said:


> How are you playing the files? Most likely it's your Music playback software which is set incorrectly.




I tried Sony wm1z, USB audio player pro and foobar2000 all got same results. Not only my unit got such issue. I tried other units also got this problem.


----------



## Whitigir

I never had this problem...you are using the Walkman port on the side ?


----------



## hugopua

whitigir said:


> I never had this problem...you are using the Walkman port on the side ?




Yes. Correct. I had bring this issue to Sony Malaysia.


----------



## Zirconn

hugopua said:


> Hi,
> 
> I found out one issue. The TA-ZH1ES auto upsampling to PCM352.8/32bit when both DSEE HX and DSD remastering are off. This issue is happen when playback PCM files but not problems for dsd format.
> 
> Anyone can check their unit got such problem or not? Thank you.


 
  
 Actually, according to your pics, it seems to be upsampling to 384kHz 32bit except for the 16bit stream, which gets upsampled to 352.8Khz 32 bit.
 To be honest, I never tried 16 bit input but my TA does the same 384kHz upsampling and this seems normal to me.
 I'll check the 16 bit stuff when i get back home.
  
*Whitigir*, press the Display button on the remote and you will see


----------



## hugopua

zirconn said:


> Actually, according to your pics, it seems to be upsampling to 384kHz 32bit except for the 16bit stream, which gets upsampled to 352.8Khz 32 bit.
> To be honest, I never tried 16 bit input but my TA does the same 384kHz upsampling and this seems normal to me.
> I'll check the 16 bit stuff when i get back home.
> 
> ...


----------



## Zirconn

Yes, 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4kHz get upsampled to 352.8kHz. It makes sense from a resource point of view, since the algorithm is almost costless.
You can report it to Sony but I doubt anything will come out of it. It seems the DAC works, internally, with those PCM formats. It's not unheard of and it shouldn't affect quality or anything.


----------



## Whitigir

zirconn said:


> Actually, according to your pics, it seems to be upsampling to 384kHz 32bit except for the 16bit stream, which gets upsampled to 352.8Khz 32 bit.
> To be honest, I never tried 16 bit input but my TA does the same 384kHz upsampling and this seems normal to me.
> I'll check the 16 bit stuff when i get back home.
> 
> *Whitigir*, press the Display button on the remote and you will see




True, it actually did . I never turned off DSEE HX or DSD remastering either


----------



## hugopua

zirconn said:


> Yes, 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4kHz get upsampled to [COLOR=111C24]352.8kHz. It makes sense from a resource point of view, since the algorithm is almost costless.[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=111C24]You can report it to Sony but I doubt anything will come out of it. It seems the DAC works, internally, with those PCM formats. It's not unheard of and it shouldn't affect quality or anything.[/COLOR]




Can we consider this issue is dsee hx can't turn off all the time?


----------



## Whitigir

hugopua said:


> Can we consider this issue is dsee hx can't turn off all the time?




Not sure what is going to be the case here, but some files even get upsampling to 12.1 MHz DSD....doesn't bother me though, what I care about is sound quality


----------



## hugopua

whitigir said:


> Not sure what is going to be the case here, but some files even get upsampling to 12.1 MHz DSD....doesn't bother me though, what I care about is sound quality




Maybe ta-zh1es can get better if they solve this bug. Because I need to listen tidal in cd quality or master quality without upsampling.


----------



## Whitigir

hugopua said:


> Maybe ta-zh1es can get better if they solve this bug. Because I need to listen tidal in cd quality or master quality without upsampling.




I don't know about that, but for me, DSEE HX and DSD remastering engines are just too good to turn off


----------



## buzzlulu

Side question - although perhaps relegated also to this "bug". 

I would be using this box strictly as an amplifier - it would be connected to the preamp out of my two channel system where DAC/streamer duties are performed by a Linn DS. 

I assume this can be used strictly as an amp with the DAC and upsampling features turned off?

In my case, if used strictly as an amp, is it a bit of a waste of money considering that only half of its functionality is being used? Or is the synergy with the headphones enough to merit its use as a stand alone DAC


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> Side question - although perhaps relegated also to this "bug".
> 
> I would be using this box strictly as an amplifier - it would be connected to the preamp out of my two channel system where DAC/streamer duties are performed by a Linn DS.
> 
> ...




TA is a digital DAC integrated amp....it takes analog input and convert into digital and then back to analog again...why don't you try a more pure analog amplifier instead ?


----------



## buzzlulu

Wow- that changes things. I did not know that the DAC component could not be deactivated. You just saved me a demo tomorrow - and some money. 
Yes - in my scenario I will need an amplifier - noting more nothing less

For portable use around the house with the Z1R a Mojo or Hugo2 will perform those duties. 

I guess it's back to listening to amps tomorrow at Can Jam which work well with the Z1R - and the Utopia should I be tempted (!)


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> Wow- that changes things. I did not know that the DAC component could not be deactivated. You just saved me a demo tomorrow - and some money.
> Yes - in my scenario I will need an amplifier - noting more nothing less
> 
> For portable use around the house with the Z1R a Mojo or Hugo2 will perform those duties.
> ...




Coming from z1r and now Utopia...I say, forget listening to Utopia if your wallet disagree with the pricing, because...just because...there will not be any hold back ...lol


----------



## buzzlulu

Thanks for the warning - if it is as good as they say I will be open to temptation

Coming back here after a 14 year absence I sort of fancy a closed back and open back combo. The Z1R seems to nail it for closed - and portable travel duty ( and for me travel duty also means a different room in the house away from my dedicated two channel listening room). 

Something like the Utopia would be nice in my listening room when I can't fire up the big speakers late at night. 

I know from your postings that you have the Sony and just got the Utopia. Are they to keep both or choose between the two?

You are using the complete Sony system with the Z's - what are you using with the Utopia's?


PS nice time to come back to this place as things have really changed since my last visits in 2003/2004. Back then it was only Sennheiser 650's and Grado - and DIY amp builders. To imagine headphones such as the Utopia and Z1R is amazing


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> Thanks for the warning - if it is as good as they say I will be open to temptation
> 
> Coming back here after a 14 year absence I sort of fancy a closed back and open back combo. The Z1R seems to nail it for closed - and portable travel duty ( and for me travel duty also means a different room in the house away from my dedicated two channel listening room).
> 
> ...




I actually let go off z1r for Utopia , that is why ....LOL. Wm1z and TA amp are both excellent pairing with Utopia in my point of view. I made the ultimate silver-gold wires cable for all 3 that I can use Portable with Wm1z or stationary with the whole chain


----------



## Leviticus

I have officially reached audio heaven!!!
  
 Got my reterminated TH900 back and can now use the TA in balanced mode. The difference is night and day! The soundstage+bass literally blew me away when I started with Dream Theater's "Enigma Machine" as my reference song. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I also have to applaud Whitigir for recommending the docking station + upgraded cables. Did some testing the other day and I didn't have to look for audible differences with a microscope, they were there from the beginning. And I even came to that conclusion without having my TH900 around.... . But I admit that I was too lazy to compare the upgraded power cable to the stock cable, it's just too much hassle (you have no idea how stiff that power cable is).


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> I have officially reached audio heaven!!!
> 
> Got my reterminated TH900 back and can now use the TA in balanced mode. The difference is night and day! The soundstage+bass literally blew me away when I started with Dream Theater's "Enigma Machine" as my reference song. :eek:
> 
> I also have to applaud Whitigir for recommending the docking station + upgraded cables. Did some testing the other day and I didn't have to look for audible differences with a microscope, they were there from the beginning. And I even came to that conclusion without having my TH900 around.... . But I admit that I was too lazy to compare the upgraded power cable to the stock cable, it's just too much hassle (you have no idea how stiff that power cable is).




Finally  that is awesome for you to get such combinations. Congratulations, now you are in Audio nirvana . I totally understand how stiff the power cables can be...trust me ! Lol


----------



## buzzlulu

Anyone hear an iPhone 7 into the Sony - lightning port taking digital out into the USB of the TA (assuming there is a USB input?)?


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> Anyone hear an iPhone 7 into the Sony - lightning port taking digital out into the USB of the TA (assuming there is a USB input?)?




That would be a camera adaptor kit into USB cables and into TA. Yeah, I do that all the time when I stream netflix movies into TA and YouTube stuff


----------



## buzzlulu

Right - forgot about the CCK due to the Apple certification chip.
  
 I think I am following you - Utopia's arrived this morning.  WOW


----------



## bmichels

Sorry to ask, but... if there is a real substantial SQ improvement when using the *" **NW-WM1Z dap + TA-ZH1ES amp"   versus the NW-WM1Z dap alone* (with TOL headphone like the MDR-Z1R or Focal...).    The TA-ZH1ES amp is a really BIG amp compared to the DAP alone !!


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> Right - forgot about the CCK due to the Apple certification chip.
> 
> I think I am following you - Utopia's arrived this morning.  WOW




Yeah, Utopia synergy into the TA is freaking amazing. It gets even better with balanced connection and upgraded cables as well  . Sorry about your wallet


----------



## Lemieux66

whitigir said:


> That would be a camera adaptor kit into USB cables and into TA. Yeah, I do that all the time when I stream netflix movies into TA and YouTube stuff




Wait, you watch movies on an iPhone? That's quite funny - tiny screen but magnificent sound!


----------



## Whitigir

lemieux66 said:


> Wait, you watch movies on an iPhone? That's quite funny - tiny screen but magnificent sound!




Nope, IPad Pro  lol, but I tried iPhone 7 plus into it though, and can confirm that it works. Apple CCK and USB cables work from both USB port in the back, and Walkman port on the side


----------



## Lemieux66

whitigir said:


> Nope, IPad Pro  lol, but I tried iPhone 7 plus into it though, and can confirm that it works. Apple CCK and USB cables work from both USB port in the back, and Walkman port on the side




Ah, iPad Pro - that's better!

Oh that's interesting about using the Walkman port with Apple devices - I thought it was some kind of proprietary Sony connector. I notice the Walkman socket has the socket for the cable plus an extra hole next to it, what is that part for?


----------



## Whitigir

lemieux66 said:


> Ah, iPad Pro - that's better!
> 
> Oh that's interesting about using the Walkman port with Apple devices - I thought it was some kind of proprietary Sony connector. I notice the Walkman socket has the socket for the cable plus an extra hole next to it, what is that part for?




Extra stabilizer due to how small the micro USB can be, they can flex and easily be damaged.  any micro USB will fit just fine


----------



## Leviticus

leviticus said:


> There is something odd going on with my TA. Every once in a while the sound from the right cup of my TH900 simply disappears. I can solve the problem by plugging out and then plugging in my headphone cable. This problem first occured 2 days ago. Strange...


 

 **** just hit my fan! I think I have a driver failure in the right ear cup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I hope the seller will help me fix this problem.


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> **** just hit my fan! I think I have a driver failure in the right ear cup.
> 
> I hope the seller will help me fix this problem.




Ok...you just had someone to reterminate your headphones ? Or was it someone else, I couldn't remember lol...if driver failures happen, it just straight out Died, or distortions if it is live


----------



## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> Ok...you just had someone to reterminate your headphones ? Or was it someone else, I couldn't remember lol...if driver failures happen, it just straight out Died, or distortions if it is live


 
 Yes, my brother reterminated the cable. But the problem emergerd first around the time when I received my TA a few weeks ago. Sometimes the music would just disappear from the right ear cup, but it only happened randomly and I was able to fix this problem temporarily by plugging in and out the 1/4 plug. This also happened with the ZX2, I checked.
  
 Yesterday, my headphones worked perfectly. But now there is no sound coming from my right ear cup. Plugging in and out the xlr plug sometimes brings back the sound, but you can actually hear how the sound is getting thinner and then disappears from the right ear cup. So I assume that it has nothing to do with the XLR plug since this problem occured first when I had the stock plug.


----------



## Leviticus

But it shouldn't be ignored that the cable going into the right ear cup is a little twisted (you can actually see that on my pictures). It's been twisted for quite a long time now.


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> But it shouldn't be ignored that the cable going into the right ear cup is a little twisted (you can actually see that on my pictures). It's been twisted for quite a long time now.




Do you have the problem when you plugged in and twisting or moving the right side cables to the headphone


----------



## GoDiSLoVe

Quote:


leviticus said:


> I have officially reached audio heaven!!!
> 
> Got my reterminated TH900 back and can now use the TA in balanced mode. The difference is night and day! The soundstage+bass literally blew me away when I started with Dream Theater's "Enigma Machine" as my reference song.
> 
> ...


 

  
  
  
 Darn... This is the kind of review I was afraid to see 
 I recently purchased NW-WM1Z, MDR-Z1R and TA-ZH1ES.  In other words, spent my 2017 budget (maybe 2018 too? ) 
 However I laid my eyes on TH900 and trying to justify a way to buy or not buy.
 After your review temptation came back 
  
 You got any chance to compare TH900 with MDR-Z1R with TA-ZH1ES ?


----------



## Leviticus

whitigir said:


> Do you have the problem when you plugged in and twisting or moving the right side cables to the headphone


 
  
 Nope, playing around with the cable does not help nor does it create any noise, which, to me, indicates that is has something to do with the driver. And when both cups work, there is a clear imbalanace between the two ear cups. The left one, which seems to be working just fine, is louder. Especially the vocals are imbalanced.


godislove said:


> Darn... This is the kind of review I was afraid to see
> I recently purchased NW-WM1Z, MDR-Z1R and TA-ZH1ES.  In other words, spent my 2017 budget (maybe 2018 too? )
> However I laid my eyes on TH900 and trying to justify a way to buy or not buy.
> After your review temptation came back
> ...


 
 Nope, but whitigir owned both the TH900 and Z1R.


----------



## Imusicman

whitigir said:


> I actually let go off z1r for Utopia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi, I have the Utopia and I was considering pairing it with this amp. Can you describe the synergy/sound. Would you say it adds any warmth to the signature etc


----------



## Whitigir

imusicman said:


> Hi, I have the Utopia and I was considering pairing it with this amp. Can you describe the synergy/sound. Would you say it adds any warmth to the signature etc




It does add more warmth but not much, the synergy is almost perfect that's I can not say that it add warmth. I only know the one thing is that my WM1Z is already warmth, and I have no other lean amps to try it on. From WM1Z to TA, the Utopia get slightly more warmth and smoothness


----------



## TSAVJason

whitigir said:


> It does add more warmth but not much, the synergy is almost perfect that's I can not say that it add warmth. I only know the one thing is that my WM1Z is already warmth, and I have no other lean amps to try it on. From WM1Z to TA, the Utopia get slightly more warmth and smoothness




I'm going to second that. My primary rig is now the ES amp, 1Z DAP and the Utopia.


----------



## Imusicman

whitigir said:


> It does add more warmth but not much, the synergy is almost perfect that's I can not say that it add warmth. I only know the one thing is that my WM1Z is already warmth, and I have no other lean amps to try it on. From WM1Z to TA, the Utopia get slightly more warmth and smoothness


 

 Sounds interesting. Thanks


----------



## Imusicman

tsavjason said:


> I'm going to second that. My primary rig is now the ES amp, 1Z DAP and the Utopia.


 

 Good to know. I think I will like this slight tilt towards warmth/smoothness. This plus one other is exactly the set up I am considering. The other is the Liquid gold. Any thoughts?


----------



## TSAVJason

imusicman said:


> Good to know. I think I will like this slight tilt towards warmth/smoothness. This plus one other is exactly the set up I am considering. The other is the Liquid gold. Any thoughts?




The ES Amplifier has features like it's DAC and connectivity options and has a silkyness where the Cavalli is straight analog with a very sweet sound. Cavalli is down to 1 new Gold and 2 Demo units so that option is getting thin unless you buy one soon or get a used piece.


----------



## Imusicman

tsavjason said:


> The ES Amplifier has features like it's DAC and connectivity options and has a silkyness where the Cavalli is straight analog with a very sweet sound. Cavalli is down to 1 new Gold and 2 Demo units so that option is getting thin unless you buy one soon or get a used piece.


 
  
 I am trying to secure one. I have put an advertisement in the forum for pristine used or demo unit for $3000 all in inc PayPal and shipping.
 Would it be worth contacting Cavalli directly?


----------



## TSAVJason

imusicman said:


> I am trying to secure one. I have put an advertisement in the forum for pristine used or demo unit for $3000 all in inc PayPal and shipping.
> Would it be worth contacting Cavalli directly?




They no longer sell direct and they don't have anymore either.


----------



## purk

tsavjason said:


> The ES Amplifier has features like it's DAC and connectivity options and has a silkyness where the Cavalli is straight analog with a very sweet sound. Cavalli is down to 1 new Gold and 2 Demo units so that option is getting thin unless you buy one soon or get a used piece.


 
 There is no doubt that the Cavalli LG is clearly a better sounding amp.  I was able to audition one a few months back and it is one of the best sounding dynamic amp that I have tried.  Still I find it is a tad aggressive for the Sennheiser HD800 (maybe it is partly due to the HD800's fault) and a perfect match to the HE-1000 V2.  Super powerful amp that generate plenty of heat due to its Class A operation obviously.  The ES can do more obviously but it isn't as dynamic and could be too "soft" and "smooth" for warmer and lusher sounding headphones.  The sense of space and precise imaging are clearly more special on the LG.


----------



## Bikr

tsavjason said:


> They no longer sell direct and they don't have anymore either.


 
  
 Minor correction: Cavalii Audio still sells their Liquid Carbon 2.0 on their site, but I'm pretty sure supply is limited. Not exactly the Liquid Gold, but does have the Cavalli "house sound".


----------



## TSAVJason

bikr said:


> Minor correction: Cavalii Audio still sells their Liquid Carbon 2.0 on their site, but I'm pretty sure supply is limited. Not exactly the Liquid Gold, but does have the Cavalli "house sound".



Nope all gone. Warren and I confirmed with Alex yesterday. The web site needs updating


----------



## Bikr

tsavjason said:


> Nope all gone. Warren and I confirmed with Alex yesterday. The web site needs updating


 
  
 Good to know! I purchased one a few weeks ago which is why I thought it was still available. Seems that many of these high-end audio companies have a hard time keeping their sites up to date, both content- and design-wise! :/

 Back on topic…
  
 Anyone hear the TA-ZH1ES with a pair of Mr Speakers Alpha Primes? Wondering how that pairing would compare with the Primes and a Gungnir Multibit + Liquid Carbon.


----------



## purk

bikr said:


> Good to know! I purchased one a few weeks ago which is why I thought it was still available. Seems that many of these high-end audio companies have a hard time keeping their sites up to date, both content- and design-wise! :/
> 
> Back on topic…
> 
> *Anyone hear the TA-ZH1ES with a pair of Mr Speakers Alpha Primes? Wondering how that pairing would compare with the Primes and a Gungnir Multibit + Liquid Carbon. *


 
 I don't have the Alpha Prime but the the TA-ZH1ES should have no problem outclassing the Gunnir Multi-bit + Liquid Carbon.  The LC is a great sounding little amp but it has relatively shallow soundstage (due to switching PSU here) and some what harsh treble.  The TA-ZH1ES is definitely superior sound wise to it.


----------



## Imusicman

Guys, apologies if this not exactly on topic for this thread but anyone tell me there thoughts on the WM1A vs WM1Z sound differences if any. Basically there's a massive difference is price. can you hear it?


----------



## TSAVJason

imusicman said:


> Guys, apologies if this not exactly on topic for this thread but anyone tell me there thoughts on the WM1A vs WM1Z sound differences if any. Basically there's a massive difference is price. can you hear it?




Commensurate with that massive difference in pricing there is an equally massive difference in sound quality and signature.


----------



## mrtim6

I wonder if anyone here has any opinions regarding sound quality and signature between the TA-ZH1ES and the Grace M920.

I know the Grace is a single ended amp/dac, but I thought there has been an elephant in the room since the start of this thread - because the similarities and versatility of both amp/dacs.

I own the previous Grace M903 which I have had for 5 years and still think is a really nice amp/dac combo for a large variety of headphones. Thinking of buy the Sony as an upgraded all in one solution. 

The main downsides for me personally, regarding the M903 is no DSD support (I like to rip my vinyl to DSD files) and no option for balanced headphone inputs. Sound quality for an all in one unit is excellent IMO.


----------



## mrtim6

tsavjason said:


> Commensurate with that massive difference in pricing there is an equally massive difference in sound quality and signature.




Choo Choo there goes the hype train yet again...


----------



## TSAVJason

mrtim6 said:


> Choo Choo there goes the hype train yet again...


Choo choo there goes the trash talk train  :thumbsup_tone1:. Just because I'm a dealer doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an opinion any different than you.


----------



## buzzlulu

I tried the WM1Z at the Sony booth on Sunday. As an exclusive iOS user I have to admit I was quite disappointed in the "lagginess" of the scrolling and user interface. 

I also did not have that "Wow" experience when listening to the Z1R through the WM1Z when compared to the Z1R through an iPhone into Chord Mojo. Granted my listening was short and show conditions are not ideal however that did not stop me from being blown away by my brief listen of the Stax 009 through the Blue Hawaii tube amp. It is almost a week later and I still cannot forget that one - and I only listened to two songs!


----------



## bmichels

buzzlulu said:


> I tried the WM1Z at the Sony booth on Sunday. As an exclusive iOS user I have to admit I was quite disappointed in the "lagginess" of the scrolling and user interface.
> 
> I also did not have that "Wow" experience when listening to the Z1R through the WM1Z when compared to the Z1R through an iPhone into Chord Mojo. Granted my listening was short and show conditions are not ideal however that did not stop me from being blown away by my brief listen of the Stax 009 through the Blue Hawaii tube amp. It is almost a week later and I still cannot forget that one - and I only listened to two songs!


 
  
 Now you can understand why I have very little sleep since I got my BHSE + SR009


----------



## purk

buzzlulu said:


> I tried the WM1Z at the Sony booth on Sunday. As an exclusive iOS user I have to admit I was quite disappointed in the "lagginess" of the scrolling and user interface.
> 
> I also did not have that "Wow" experience when listening to the Z1R through the WM1Z when compared to the Z1R through an iPhone into Chord Mojo. Granted my listening was short and show conditions are not ideal however that did not stop me from being blown away by my brief listen of the Stax 009 through the Blue Hawaii tube amp. It is almost a week later and I still cannot forget that one - and I only listened to two songs!


 
  
  


bmichels said:


> Now you can understand why I have very little sleep since I got my BHSE + SR009


 
  
 Wait until you hear the SR009 out of the DIY T2...you may not sleep for awhile.


----------



## Imusicman

tsavjason said:


> Choo choo there goes the trash talk train  :thumbsup_tone1:. Just because I'm a dealer doesn't mean I'm not entitled to an option any different than you.



Guys, I think I started this one with an innocent question so apologies if somehow I threw a grenade. On a side note Jason has helped me out on several occasions. He's been very patient and informative with me and he has gained my trust as a head-fier and I value his opinion. Furthermore I would happily do business with him if I was in the US.
I genuinely don't believe he would knowingly mislead anyone or sell any train tickets of any kind lol


----------



## mrtim6

I agree Jason you are entitled to your opinion- I just thought what you said sounded somewhat hyped. 

Now if you had said there was a massive difference between TA-ZH1ES and WM1A that sounds reasonable.

I would question the ability for Sony to make massive differences between their Walkman models. Improvements in the quality of sound sure, improved build quality no argument here, however making the claim that there are massive differences requires some sort of explanation regarding the technology and what sort of files used what tests used etc.

So I stand by what I previously said it sounds like hype - however I'm happy for you to prove me wrong.
However - extraordinary claims require at the very least a decent explanation. 

Cheers,

Tim


----------



## Whitigir

mrtim6 said:


> I agree Jason you are entitled to your opinion- I just thought what you said sounded somewhat hyped.
> 
> Now if you had said there was a massive difference between TA-ZH1ES and WM1A that sounds reasonable.
> 
> ...




Tim,

Not every one can speak in term of Audio engineering design to explain to you why one piece is better than another, and even if someone can, it is more of a speculations than facts. Because companies more often than not, rather keep their secret behind their designs as trade secrets.

You want to know why TA-ZH1ES is substantially better than WM1Z ? Ta-Zh1es is a desktop system and Wm1z is a DAP

On a confirmation note, TA-ZH1ES offer a much better sound performances in comparison to WM1Z. Such comparisons should not happen anyways. However, I do understand why people would ask such thing. My question to people would be, would you rather prefer portability primarily ? Or portability is not important ?

If they answer portability is not important, then my answer to them would be: go for Ta-ZH1ES as the primary piece in the Sony Signature release, and then add in WM1Z for the ability to portably taking the Utopia around with you, and using the same 4.4mm balanced cables that you used with TA-ZH1ES.


----------



## mrtim6

Thanks for the information regarding the TA-ZH1ES much appreciated. Certainly can't disagree with the logical points you make here.

My original comment directed towards Jason was in relation to his statement regarding the sonic differences between the NW-WM1Z/ NW-WM1Z DAP which I thought sounded like hype.


----------



## Sarnia

Hi Whitigir, I think the comparison was between the WM1A and WM1Z. The mention of the ZH1ES was to highlight that it should be much better than the WM1A.


----------



## Whitigir

sarnia said:


> Hi Whitigir, I think the comparison was between the WM1A and WM1Z. The mention of the ZH1ES was to highlight that it should be much better than the WM1A.




I don't have the A to compare to the Z for you. However, from my logical point of view, the same company produced both, and they priced Z to be more expensive than A, then there must be differences in both materials and performances to justify it by themselves. However, how much differences ? I can not tell you that as I don't have them to compare A/B for you


----------



## TnTMaN

How does the Sony compare against the Oppo HA-1? 

Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## Whitigir

tntman said:


> How does the Sony compare against the Oppo HA-1?
> 
> Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk




No contest, TA wins immediately and right away


----------



## TnTMaN

whitigir said:


> tntman said:
> 
> 
> > How does the Sony compare against the Oppo HA-1?
> ...




In what ways? 

Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## Imusicman

tntman said:


> In what ways?
> 
> I'd too would like hear more on this please
> 
> Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## Daroid

So would I.
 I'm not questioning that there's anything at all wrong with the ZH1ES, but all the extra DSP stuff seems to solve a problem that I can't see being there. Meaningless terms such as "DC phase linearization" doesn't help either - so an analog sound means phase shifting of 90 deg. below 40 Hz ?!. And their anti-resonance chassis design? This isn't a turntable. It's snake oil. You're even using it with headphones and not speakers => zero vibration. It might very well be the best-of-the-best, but their marketing of this is no better or honest than their marketing for TV's, which is kind of disappointing to see. This is one reason I can't make my mind up what to think.


----------



## Imusicman

I would like hear more on why the TA vs the HA-1 is no contest. If this is true I want one now.


----------



## TnTMaN

I've recently had the pleasure of going through multiple DAC and amp combos. Chord Hugo TT, Auralic Vega, Taurus Mk2, SimAudio 430HAD and Oppo HA-1 powering my LCD-3. The best combo is a HugoTT and the Taurus. It's a match made in heaven. The Oppo HA-1 functions well as an amp but its digital section lets it down a bit. It's great but compared to the other equipment it's not as good. How much better is the other gear? To My ears it's not worth the 3x asking price. 











Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## Whitigir

tntman said:


> In what ways?
> 
> Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk




My bad, I have not been answering for you. TA-ZH1ES does better than Ha-1 in tonal body, soundstage, layering, and details. You will notice the improvements accross the board from HA-1. Ofcourse, the pricing is higher on TA as well. The TA deliver a more realistic tonal body, warmth and smooth, with super-spherical holographical soundstage

However, I am still keeping my HA1, it has great Bluetooth capability for online streaming from my iPad to the home stereo system . At the desk for music and or gaming, the TA will handle both


----------



## purk

whitigir said:


> My bad, I have not been answering for you. TA-ZH1ES does better than Ha-1 in tonal body, soundstage, layering, and details. You will notice the improvements accross the board from HA-1. Ofcourse, the pricing is higher on TA as well. The TA deliver a more realistic tonal body, warmth and smooth, with super-spherical holographical soundstage
> 
> However, I am still keeping my HA1, it has great Bluetooth capability for online streaming from my iPad to the home stereo system
> 
> ...


 
 I'm with Whitigir here.  The TA-ZH1ES is a solid mid highend product where as the HA-1 is on the lower end of a high end product segment.  Beside the generous features including ins & outs, I heavily preferred the sound of the ZH1ES over the HA-1.  While the HA-1 can be considered dry and clinical tonally, the ZH1ES is warmer, lusher, and with better tones all around.  Soundstage wise is a big step up on the ZH1ES.  The HA-1's soundstage is missing some depth causing the soundstage to be flatter in comparison.  The ZH1ES also has better layering with better sense refinement IMO.  The ZH1ES only fell a tad short when directly compared to a top end dedicated amp such as GS-X MKI or ECP L2 in term of shear sense of dynamics.  It can sound overly smooth and lack bites at times.  Still at the asking price, it is quite a bargain considering the all-in-one package as well as unsurpassed build quality.


----------



## Daroid

Thank you big-time Whitigir and Purk. I know it is hard to describe differences in audio by words only, but it helped me quite a bit. I suppose this was tested with DSEE HX in standard mode?
  
 For those interested, I found this technical manual describing the S-Master Pro principles in much more detail: https://docs.sony.com/release/ES_STR_05_Final.pdf
 It helped clear some stuff up for me like the DC phase linearization, which is still a misleading term, but has to do with how the phase characteristics of conventional amplifiers change at low frequencies when loaded with a low-impedance load (e.g. reactance).
  
 Anyone had a chance to try this with a vinyl setup, e.g. output from the pre-amp into the TA-ZH1ES, or used the analog inputs in general? Any info on how they perform A/D conversion - bit depth, delta/sigma, SAR? discrete IC or proprietary FPGA implementation?
 That's the only thing that I'm questioning right now, and the What Hi-fi review doesn't help, but I can't find out if this is just placebo talk and hearsay from other class D amps.


----------



## Hooster

whitigir said:


> However, I am still keeping my HA1,


 
  
 +1, even though I plan to get another DAC, and I use the headphone output as a pre out for my power amp. It is just beautifully made.
  
 The Sony is really nice though.


----------



## Daroid

Don't know if it has been posted, but I found this page with some pretty nice close up pictures of the PCB:
 http://news.mynavi.jp/news/2016/09/08/255/
  
 The ADC they use is an AKM AK5572EN. It is the TOTL AKM ADC for 2 channel audio, and converts directly to DSD. It is 32 bits, SNR of 121 dB and THD+N at -112 dB.
 So cut me some slack, what again is "wrong" with the analog input? Could anyone please shed some light on this. It really bugs me that What hi-fi made a comment on this without elaborating much on this.


----------



## TnTMaN

Thanks for the comparison! How does the Sony function as a stand alone DAC? I want to know as in the future, I might want to add a tube amp..etc

Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## Gibraltar

daroid said:


> Don't know if it has been posted, but I found this page with some pretty nice close up pictures of the PCB:
> http://news.mynavi.jp/news/2016/09/08/255/
> 
> The ADC they use is an AKM AK5572EN. It is the TOTL AKM ADC for 2 channel audio, and converts directly to DSD. It is 32 bits, SNR of 121 dB and THD+N at -112 dB.
> So cut me some slack, what again is "wrong" with the analog input? Could anyone please shed some light on this. It really bugs me that What hi-fi made a comment on this without elaborating much on this. :evil:




Nothing wrong with it but it's not ideal to convert to digital and back again when all you really want is to amplify the analog signal. I believe someone earlier in this thread also said that the performance of the analog input was not as good as the digital.


----------



## Daroid

gibraltar said:


> Nothing wrong with it but it's not ideal to convert to digital and back again when all you really want is to amplify the analog signal. I believe someone earlier in this thread also said that the performance of the analog input was not as good as the digital.


 

 I can agree. But in what way does it affect it in reality? Is the sound harsh, congested, etc.? What equivalent amplifier would it bring the sound quality down to, just to have a point of reference?


----------



## Whitigir

daroid said:


> I can agree. But in what way does it affect it in reality? Is the sound harsh, congested, etc.? What equivalent amplifier would it bring the sound quality down to, just to have a point of reference?




Well, what I see is that a real DAC has balanced out, and then you need a balanced in amplifier to take advantage of that. The TA can only accept RCA which is SE


----------



## Daroid

whitigir said:


> Well, what I see is that a real DAC has balanced out, and then you need a balanced in amplifier to take advantage of that. The TA can only accept RCA which is SE


 

 My analog source (RIAA pre-amp, THEL Audio Phono-X) only has unbalanced output either way. Right now it is fed to a Ray Samuels XP-7. What I'm afraid of is whether it will sound better or worse with the TA-ZH1ES.


----------



## Whitigir

daroid said:


> My analog source (RIAA pre-amp) only has unbalanced output either way. Right now it is fed to an Ray Samuels XP-7. What I'm afraid of is whether it will sound better or worse with the TA-ZH1ES.




That I can not say, but I think the point of TA is to allow you to listen to Vynil and turn table. My guess is that if you connect SE and find a way to use it, you will find out. But if you want TA to be a very dedicated analog amp, the TA is not. That is because very dedicated analog devices from DAC to Amp will both offer balanced XLR 3 in and out per channel. The TA does not.


----------



## Daroid

whitigir said:


> That I can not say, but I think the point of TA is to allow you to listen to Vynil and turn table. My guess is that if you connect SE and find a way to use it, you will find out. But if you want TA to be a very dedicated analog amp, the TA is not. That is because very dedicated analog devices from DAC to Amp will both offer balanced XLR 3 in and out per channel. The TA does not.


 

 I understand. Thank you, that makes sense. The reason why I'm even considering the TA is that I want to also use it with my Oppo UDP-203, since it does not have any headphone amplifier circuitry and the DAC inside - while good - is not meant to be as good as it could be. I did not consider the UDP-205, which would most likely still lack very much in the headphone amp section.
 Finding integrated headphone amps and DAC combos (with remote control) where the DAC is not an afterthought is really hard.
  
 Anyways, did you try out the analog input yourself?


----------



## Whitigir

daroid said:


> I understand. Thank you, that makes sense. The reason why I'm even considering the TA is that I want to also use it with my Oppo UDP-203, since it does not have any headphone amplifier circuitry and the DAC inside - while good - is not meant to be as good as it could be. I did not consider the UDP-205, which would most likely still lack very much in the headphone amp section.
> Finding integrated headphone amps and DAC combos (with remote control) where the DAC is not an afterthought is really hard.
> 
> Anyways, did you try out the analog input yourself?




I have not tried the analog input myself yet. That is because ATM, I don't have any uses for it.


----------



## fa02

How is the pairing with the Audeze LCD2 ? (I have read some impressions withe the LCD-XC, but not with the LCD2)


----------



## tradyblix

I own a pre-fazor 2013 model LCD-2 and I'll be getting this amp in a week or so, so I'll post impressions if someone hasn't by then.


----------



## fa02

tradyblix said:


> I own a pre-fazor 2013 model LCD-2 and I'll be getting this amp in a week or so, so I'll post impressions if someone hasn't by then.


 
  
 Thank you. I will wait yours impressions.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Does anyone know if the TA-ZH1ES gets recognized as 768PCM/512DSD under Windows players like Roon or ohters? Or in Windows itself?
 I tried on a Mac but there it was 384PCM/256DSD max.


----------



## Imusicman

Patiently waiting for someone to review this beauty. Where's the reviews?


----------



## Whitigir

You can check out my signature for some impression on it. I need more time to do a more detailed review on it .


----------



## Imusicman

whitigir said:


> You can check out my signature for some impression on it. I need more time to do a more detailed review on it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for that. It's was a good read and informative. A dedicated review would definitely be appreciated though.
  
 Can you share the cable upgrade details you refer to. Power and USB please.


----------



## Whitigir

imusicman said:


> Thanks for that. It's was a good read and informative. A dedicated review would definitely be appreciated though.
> 
> Can you share the cable upgrade details you refer to. Power and USB please.




Sure thing, i can not tell you the exact cables that I have though. Because it was custom by me. However, one member here also upgraded to a more affordable brand "Audio Quest" for both Powercord and USB cables, and perceived the improvements as well. Audio Quest makes pretty good and affordable Copper quality one, so I would recommend it for an affordable and perceivable improvement

http://www.head-fi.org/t/818848/the-official-sony-ta-zh1es-hi-res-headphone-amplifier-live-from-ifa-2016/630#post_13234929


----------



## Daroid

Is there any particular reason why so few are selling the TA-ZH1ES in Europe? I would feel a bit unsure ordering from Alzashop.com in Czech Republic .. err.. Czechia, unless anyone can recommend them. The remaining are actually only Amazon (.de as .co.uk do not ship outside UK), AdvancedMP3players (extremely high shipping cost), Saturn/Mediamarkt (only delivery in Germany). None of these have stock at the moment. Local "Sony Center", (franchise) only seem to carry mainstream products. Any recommendations?


----------



## Sarnia

daroid said:


> Is there any particular reason why so few are selling the TA-ZH1ES in Europe? I would feel a bit unsure ordering from Alzashop.com in Czech Republic .. err.. Czechia, unless anyone can recommend them. The remaining are actually only Amazon (.de as .co.uk do not ship outside UK), AdvancedMP3players (extremely high shipping cost), Saturn/Mediamarkt (only delivery in Germany). None of these have stock at the moment. Local "Sony Center", (franchise) only seem to carry mainstream products. Any recommendations?


I guess it's because it's a signature item and also a bit more specialist than a DAP. 

I got mine from advancedmp3players.co.uk. Have you taken into account that their price is £40 below RRP, plus you can get a 10% discount voucher, making it £1,440 including UK VAT. 

Their website says they are getting stock in on 23 February, so just two days to wait. With postage to Czech Republic it's £1,495.85.


----------



## Daroid

sarnia said:


> I guess it's because it's a signature item and also a bit more specialist than a DAP.
> 
> I got mine from advancedmp3players.co.uk. Have you taken into account that their price is £40 below RRP, plus you can get a 10% discount voucher, making it £1,440 including UK VAT.
> 
> Their website says they are getting stock in on 23 February, so just two days to wait. With postage to Czech Republic it's £1,495.85.


 

 Hehe.. it is to be sent to Denmark, that's why I'm a bit afraid of Alza. I mean, there's probably nothing wrong with them, just never did any business in Czech Rep. 
 I'll send you a PM.


----------



## Leviticus

daroid said:


> Hehe.. it is to be sent to Denmark, that's why I'm a bit afraid of Alza. I mean, there's probably nothing wrong with them, just never did any business in Czech Rep.
> I'll send you a PM.


 

 If you have absolutely no chance of getting your hands on a TA, maybe I can help you. I study and live in Denmark (Sonderborg) and bought my TA from amazon Germany (had it sent to my parents place in Germany). Also, amazon.uk sends most products, including the TA, to Germany.


----------



## beowulf

Heads up for Europeans.. just got a camelcamelcamel alert for a drop on Amazon UK.
  
 Sony TA-ZH1ES High-Resolution Audio Headphone Amplifier
 £1,447 / 1707 EUR on Amazon UK


----------



## Daroid

leviticus said:


> If you have absolutely no chance of getting your hands on a TA, maybe I can help you. I study and live in Denmark (Sonderborg) and bought my TA from amazon Germany (had it sent to my parents place in Germany). Also, amazon.uk sends most products, including the TA, to Germany.


 

 Thanks for the very kind offer. I think I will go with advancedmp3players, but I didn't get to pull the trigger/order in time. What Hi-Fi and their comment on the analog input as sounding soft and compressed is making me hesitant. I suppose one does have a 14 days return period, but still... Let me know your thoughts if you had tested the analog input.


----------



## Imusicman

daroid said:


> Thanks for the very kind offer. I think I will go with advancedmp3players, but I didn't get to pull the trigger/order in time. What Hi-Fi and their comment on the analog input as sounding soft and compressed is making me hesitant. I suppose one does have a 14 days return period, but still... Let me know your thoughts if you had tested the analog input.


 
 Same here and the lack of reviews not helping.


----------



## beowulf

imusicman said:


> Same here and the lack of reviews not helping.


 
  
 I expected a lot more by now, but that is even more surprising in the case of the Z1R. Not that many (considering Sony would have put some big $ towards supplying reviewers with same units).
  
 My initial hurry to get the TA was also reduce by how surprisingly good the iFi Micro Black Label turned out to be. This little pocket thingy packs a big punch, been using it as the main source lately, so the TA can definitely wait.


----------



## Imusicman

beowulf said:


> I expected a lot more by now, but that is even more surprising in the case of the Z1R. Not that many (considering Sony would have put some big $ towards supplying reviewers with same units).
> 
> My initial hurry to get the TA was also reduce by how surprisingly good the iFi Micro Black Label turned out to be. This little pocket thingy packs a big punch, been using it as the main source lately, so the TA can definitely wait.


 

 im also hanging on as I am curious about the iFi Pro iCan and new iFi Pro DAC when released in the next month or two. Could be a great combo!


----------



## Daroid

Well, the German magazine AUDIO from this month tested the TA and only received rave comments. They also tested the Z1R in the same magazine. Another German magazine "Audio Test" tested the TA, Z1R and WM1Z in their January issue. Also only very positive words, at least regarding the TA. No word on the analogue inputs, however.


----------



## buzzlulu

daroid said:


> Well, the German magazine AUDIO from this month tested the TA and only received rave comments. They also tested the Z1R in the same magazine. Another German magazine "Audio Test" tested the TA, Z1R and WM1Z in their January issue. Also only very positive words, at least regarding the TA. No word on the analogue inputs, however.


 

 Any link to these?


----------



## Daroid

buzzlulu said:


> Any link to these?


 

 They are printed magazines, excerpt from Audio and a buy option for €1.89 is available at http://www.testberichte.de/p/sony-tests/ta-zh1es-testbericht.html . Audio Test is more expensive at €5.99, but it's the full magazine ( http://www.digitalfernsehen.de/AUDIO-TEST-01-2017.147203.0.html ) . But maybe you can find cheaper resellers/alternatives on Google...
 I don't know Head-fi's policy on this, but it's probably not wise for me to quote parts of the reviews. But quite honestly the reviews are not detailed enough to make an educated choice.


----------



## purk

beowulf said:


> I expected a lot more by now, but that is even more surprising in the case of the Z1R. Not that many (considering Sony would have put some big $ towards supplying reviewers with same units).
> 
> My initial hurry to get the TA was also reduce by how surprisingly good the iFi Micro Black Label turned out to be. This little pocket thingy packs a big punch, been using it as the main source lately, so the TA can definitely wait.


 
 The TA is a much better amp than the iFi micro first gen that I used to have.  We are talking about a unit with a much more robust power supply and much better component here.  The TA will really narrow the gap to a reference level headamp such as the GS-X MKII.  No, it will not match the performance but it will get relatively close for less money and you will not have to worry about the DAC portion.  Honestly, the TA should be compared to iFi Pro highest desktop offering not their top of the line portable units.


----------



## purk

daroid said:


> Thanks for the very kind offer. I think I will go with advancedmp3players, but I didn't get to pull the trigger/order in time. What Hi-Fi and their comment on the analog input as sounding soft and compressed is making me hesitant. I suppose one does have a 14 days return period, but still... Let me know your thoughts if you had tested the analog input.


 
  
  


imusicman said:


> Same here and the lack of reviews not helping.


 
 You really should not hesitate based on the analog input performance.  The analog input will always sound soft and not as good as a digital input in a dedicated digital amplifier of any type.  For instance, the output of my Yggy feeding the  TA via analog input is not even as good as the TA's internal digital processing.  This has nothing to do with TA unit as a whole here because an analog input will need to go thru an additional digitizing stage in order to feed into a digital amp circuit.  This additional process will cause a negative affect to the sound of any digital amp.  A digital amp should be fed by a digital signal only in order to maximize the performance as this is a well-known fact.
  
 I own several top-end amplifiers including the GS-X MKII in the past and I am highly impressed by the TA performance as an all-in-one DAC/AMP unit.  For reference, the TA can drive the HD800 even better than the Senn dedicated HDVD-800 amplifier.


----------



## Daroid

purk said:


> You really should not hesitate based on the analog input performance.  The analog input will always sound soft and not as good as a digital input in a dedicated digital amplifier of any type.  For instance, the output of my Yggy feeding the  TA via analog input is not even as good as the TA's internal digital processing.  This has nothing to do with TA unit as a whole here because an analog input will need to go thru an additional digitizing stage in order to feed into a digital amp circuit.  This additional process will cause a negative affect to the sound of any digital amp.  A digital amp should be fed by a digital signal only in order to maximize the performance as this is a well-known fact.
> 
> I own several top-end amplifiers including the GS-X MKII in the past and I am highly impressed by the TA performance as an all-in-one DAC/AMP unit.  For reference, the TA can drive the HD800 even better than the Senn dedicated HDVD-800 amplifier.


 
  
 Thanks for your opinion. The thing is that I need the analog inputs, but also don't want to miss out on the second-to-none performance of the TA when using a digital input. So comparable alternatives with remotes are about nill. Could you elaborate a bit more on your impressions on the difference in sound quality when feeding the analog output of the Yggy to the TA vs. the TA with digital input? Do you hear any quantization errors, higher noise floor, artifacts, shut-in soundstage etc?
  
 I guess there is no way other than to order it and write a kind note, explaining my doubts/concerns in advance.


----------



## purk

daroid said:


> Thanks for your opinion. The thing is that I need the analog inputs, but also don't want to miss out on the second-to-none performance of the TA when using a digital input. So comparable alternatives with remotes are about nill. Could you elaborate a bit more on your impressions on the difference in sound quality when feeding the analog output of the Yggy to the TA vs. the TA with digital input? Do you hear any quantization errors, higher noise floor, artifacts, shut-in soundstage etc?
> 
> I guess there is no way other than to order it and write a kind note, explaining my doubts/concerns in advance.


 
 I don't hear the any of those honestly...just that the YGGY going into a conventional top end will sound noticeably better...say 20% at least in all counts.  However the TA with digital input is already 85-90% there compared to the YGGY + GS-X MKII and such for significantly less money.  So it is a matter of budget.  If you want the best DAC+amp for under or around 2K then the Sony gets my vote.


----------



## Whitigir

Seems like he needs the analog input preamp of good and capable quality, together with high quality desktop setup. The yggy and gsx MKII is probably his best bet


----------



## purk

whitigir said:


> Seems like he needs the analog input preamp of good and capable quality, together with high quality desktop setup. The yggy and gsx MKII is probably his best bet


 
 The Yggy is a great and very capable DAC.  I love it in my Stax/HE90 setup too.


----------



## buzzlulu

The new Sony portable amp/dac - the PHA2-A - is advertised by Sony as iPhone compatible "made for iPhone".
  
 Is the TA certified and "made for iPhone" or does it require the Apple Camera Connection Kit (CCK) to be able to connect an iPhone to the side USB port (where the WM1Z/A connects)?


----------



## buzzlulu

Ok - some hunting of old posts in this thread indicate that the Apple CCK cable is required.
  
 I have also seen a "OTG" cable mentioned (USB on the go) - excuse the stupid question however can someone please explain how this cable relates to connecting an iPhone with CCK to the TA.


----------



## tradyblix

appleheadmay said:


> Does anyone know if the TA-ZH1ES gets recognized as 768PCM/512DSD under Windows players like Roon or ohters? Or in Windows itself?
> I tried on a Mac but there it was 384PCM/256DSD max.


 
  
 That's interesting. I assume you used Audio/Midi Settings and it wouldn't let you go up to 32/768. Did you try using a Windows 10 Virtual Machine inside the Mac or Boot Camp ?


----------



## tradyblix

buzzlulu said:


> Ok - some hunting of old posts in this thread indicate that the Apple CCK cable is required.
> 
> I have also seen a "OTG" cable mentioned (USB on the go) - excuse the stupid question however can someone please explain how this cable relates to connecting an iPhone with CCK to the TA.


 
  
 It has something to do with whether companies pay Apple or not to be supported. Someone else can probably elaborate, but it's one of those practices I find particularly loathsome of them. (Although I'm not going to Android anytime soon).
  
 One has to ask why you'd really want to connect an iPhone to this tho. All of them are limited to 24/48 when connected this way AFAIK - you cannot get the green 96khz Hi Res light to shine on using the PHA-3 with it and it sounds much better with it on (obviously).
  
 It seems like this is for a desktop audio system and designed to connect to a computer where you have much higher sampling rates and bit rates available.


----------



## AppleheadMay

tradyblix said:


> That's interesting. I assume you used Audio/Midi Settings and it wouldn't let you go up to 32/768. Did you try using a Windows 10 Virtual Machine inside the Mac or Boot Camp ?


 
  
 When I tried the Sony I checked in BitPerfect and Roon and both reported up to 384/256 @32 bits.
 I don't have it anymore so I can't check in Windows.


----------



## beowulf

purk said:


> The TA is a much better amp than the iFi micro first gen that I used to have.  We are talking about a unit with a much more robust power supply and much better component here.  The TA will really narrow the gap to a reference level headamp such as the GS-X MKII.  No, it will not match the performance but it will get relatively close for less money and you will not have to worry about the DAC portion.  Honestly, the TA should be compared to iFi Pro highest desktop offering not their top of the line portable units.


 
  
 The 2nd iFi seems well improved, but no doubt the TA will offer more. It seems to be a beauty in terms of design, both external and in terms of circuit architecture. It's around x4 the price, so that would of couse be expected.
  
 Talking about price, another reason that made me put the TA on hold were the price fluctuations I've seen with the Z1R. Waiting to see a bit, since I don't want to be caught at the peak again if there are major drops, as with the Z1R.


----------



## Daroid

purk said:


> I don't hear the any of those honestly...just that the YGGY going into a conventional top end will sound noticeably better...say 20% at least in all counts.  However the TA with digital input is already 85-90% there compared to the YGGY + GS-X MKII and such for significantly less money.  So it is a matter of budget.  If you want the best DAC+amp for under or around 2K then the Sony gets my vote.


 
  
 It makes sense. Thanks.
  
 Quote:


whitigir said:


> Seems like he needs the analog input preamp of good and capable quality, together with high quality desktop setup. The yggy and gsx MKII is probably his best bet


 
 As it is only be used for vinyl records (and hence limited noise floor, high frequency content) I suppose the Yggy and GSX would be overkill and out of my price league either way. But could the analog input performance be compared to for example the Mjolnir 2 then I would be quite happy with that.


----------



## Sarnia

beowulf said:


> The 2nd iFi seems well improved, but no doubt the TA will offer more. It seems to be a beauty in terms of design, both external and in terms of circuit architecture. It's around x4 the price, so that would of couse be expected.
> 
> Talking about price, another reason that made me put the TA on hold were the price fluctuations I've seen with the Z1R. Waiting to see a bit, since I don't want to be caught at the peak again if there are major drops, as with the Z1R.


The TA price hasn't fluctuated anything like the Z1R. The scam seller on Amazon hasn't put fake prices on it like with the Z1R. There also aren't any other third party sellers offering it on Amazon at lower prices, which would also cause the algorithm to drop the price.

The current price on Amazon UK is about the best they've had, but they are giving 1 to 2 months delivery. They've got a used one in stock for less, but you lose the guarantee.

Advancedmp3players.co.uk have the lowest price when you use their discount codes. They were expecting some today, but have obviously sold them.

I was listening to my new Hifiman HE1000v2 through the TA last night, streaming Qobuz from my iPad Pro. Absolutely stunning!


----------



## Whitigir

The TA performances punches ways beyond it MSRP. So I don't think it will go down as much as Z1R. IMO, TA is the best piece of the signature series. FE, an Yggy, and GSX MKII will cost you a soft 5K with some upgraded cables you will punch beyond that number.

The TA is 1/2 of that, and offer, according to Purk, 80% -/+ of the performances.


----------



## purk

whitigir said:


> The TA performances punches ways beyond it MSRP. So I don't think it will go down as much as Z1R. IMO, TA is the best piece of the signature series. FE, an Yggy, and GSX MKII will cost you a soft 5K with some upgraded cables you will punch beyond that number.
> 
> The TA is 1/2 of that, and offer, according to Purk, 80% -/+ of the performances.


 
 That number is closer to 85% but like you said, it is one heck of product and certainly is the best from the signature series line not counting a 5-year ES warranty in USA.


----------



## beowulf

purk said:


> That number is closer to 85% but like you said, it is one heck of product and certainly is the best from the signature series line not counting a 5-year ES warranty in USA.


 
  
 I should unsubscribe from this thread.
  
 You people stay away from my wallet!


----------



## buzzlulu

sarnia said:


> I was listening to my new Hifiman HE1000v2 through the TA last night, streaming Qobuz from my iPad Pro. Absolutely stunning!




Where are you connecting the iPad to - side or rear USB port? I assume with Apple's CCK cable?


----------



## Sarnia

buzzlulu said:


> Where are you connecting the iPad to - side or rear USB port? I assume with Apple's CCK cable?


To the rear USB port with the CCK. Either the standard USB one or the USB3/Lightning CCK both work, with the latter providing power to the iPad too.


----------



## buzzlulu

Thanks

Please refresh my memory - iPhone 7 lightning out is capable of outputting maximum 24/96 or only 24/48?


----------



## buzzlulu

And continuing with more of my annoying questions:

How about some additional comments using the TA with headphones other than the Z1R? I know that Whitigir uses it with Utopias - I am particularly interested in that (as I have a pair here together it's the Z1R) - is the TA an amp/DAC one can grow with and will work well other cans?


----------



## Sarnia

buzzlulu said:


> And continuing with more of my annoying questions:
> 
> How about some additional comments using the TA with headphones other than the Z1R? I know that Whitigir uses it with Utopias - I am particularly interested in that (as I have a pair here together it's the Z1R) - is the TA an amp/DAC one can grow with and will work well other cans?


So far I've found it to be excellent with the HD800S (although the headphones were not my favorites) and it's stunning with Hifiman HE1000v2. Those are both pretty hard to drive, but it does so with ease. It was also excellent with HD600/650.

The TA has a warmer sound than something like to Mojo, which I had previously, so to me it works brilliantly with more neutral headphones. It doesn't add too much warmth, just gives a very enjoyable sound.


----------



## Whitigir

sarnia said:


> So far I've found it to be excellent with the HD800S (although the headphones were not my favorites) and it's stunning with Hifiman HE1000v2. Those are both pretty hard to drive, but it does so with ease. It was also excellent with HD600/650.
> 
> The TA has a warmer sound than something like to Mojo, which I had previously, so to me it works brilliantly with more neutral headphones. It doesn't add too much warmth, just gives a very enjoyable sound.




The warmth is quiet enjoyable if you upgrade the cables around the TA with silver materials: USB, headphones, Powercord


----------



## Sarnia

I'd be interested to know what volume you use on the TA, using which headphones, balanced or SE and high or low gain. 

I'm convinced I'm not playing music too loud, but I still get a ringing in my ears and sometimes a blocked feeling after that lasts for a day or two.. I've measured the volume using a SPL meter, and don't go above 75db peak, and am usually below 70 db peak. 

I'm worried about damaging my hearing. Maybe I'm measuring wrong and it's louder than I think.


----------



## buzzlulu

Thanks 
 I have rapidly come to the conclusion that I need to consider something like the TA for use at home and relegate the Mojo to portable use.
  
 Too bad there is no way to demo this.  There do not seem to be many dealers which are carrying this amp in the US


----------



## Whitigir

On Z1R, it does bring some ringing and blockage to my ears that isn't too bad, but I unconsciously turned up the volume with the Z1R to around -28db....then after I sold the Z1R and go with Utopia, it took me 2 weeks and some to get back my hearings, now I am listening at -40db around that frame...high gain, balanced out.

It wasn't that I heard the ringing with Z1R though, just my ears that got those after spending sometimes with the Z1R. The only thing I could criticize the Z1R was the warmth and extra sub-bass with some harsh details around upper mid and lower treble spectrum


----------



## Sarnia

whitigir said:


> On Z1R, it does bring some ringing and blockage to my ears that isn't too bad, but I unconsciously turned up the volume with the Z1R to around -28db....then after I sold the Z1R and go with Utopia, it took me 2 weeks and some to get back my hearings, now I am listening at -40db around that frame.


 Thanks Whitigir. Was that on low or high gain with the Z1Rs? I was usually -40 to - 45db on low gain with Z1R, occasionally up to -35db.


----------



## purk

whitigir said:


> On Z1R, it does bring some ringing and blockage to my ears that isn't too bad, but I unconsciously turned up the volume with the Z1R to around -28db....then after I sold the Z1R and go with Utopia, it took me 2 weeks and some to get back my hearings, now I am listening at -40db around that frame...high gain, balanced out.
> 
> It wasn't that I heard the ringing with Z1R though, just my ears that got those after spending sometimes with the Z1R.* The only thing I could criticize the Z1R was the warmth and extra sub-bass with some harsh details around upper mid and lower treble spectrum*


 
 I'm hearing the same thing actually.


----------



## balleklorin

Picked up TA-ZH1ES yesterday.


----------



## WNBC

Congrats, I have one coming next week.
  
 I need to go through this thread in more detail, but would most people agree the best source will be a Sony Walkman?  If one doesn't own a Walkman then coaxial better than USB?
  
 I'm in no rush for more purchases so I think I'll be using a computer as the transport of my digital files or a CD transport.
  
 I currently use the Intona USB isolator and a Singxer SU-1 to convert USB to coaxial or I2S outputs.  Anybody tried to improve USB connection via the same efforts?  Guess I'll try it myself, but curious as to whether others have experimented.  I also have an iFi iUSB3.0 + Gemini cable to try out.   
  
  
 Quote:


balleklorin said:


> Picked up TA-ZH1ES yesterday.


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






>


----------



## tradyblix

The best source would be a mac running Tidal and with MQA tracks or Lossless Hifi tracks. (or 24/192 files if that is really your thing. Or DSD256 files....etc etc). Definitely not a DAP. 
  
 At least, that's how I'm planning on using mine  One more day...


----------



## buzzlulu

tradyblix said:


> The best source would be a mac running Tidal and with MQA tracks or Lossless Hifi tracks. (or 24/192 files if that is really your thing. Or DSD256 files....etc etc). Definitely not a DAP.
> 
> At least, that's how I'm planning on using mine  One more day...


 
  
 Curious why people think this.
  
 I am planning on using an iPhone7 running Tidal and running a UpnP app which accesses my Rips from a downstairs computer.
  
 The iPhone7 lightning port outputs a pure digital signal which can be connected to either the front or back USB port on the TA (using Apples CCK dongle for certification).
  
 Most of my files are straight 16/44 Rips so the iPhone will output the pure digital FLAC's
  
 So how would a Mac running Tidal be different from an iPhone running Tidal?


----------



## buzzlulu

How does the Z1R do running balanced from the TA as compared to SE from a Mojo/iPhone?  How much of an improvement - significant?  a little?
  
 Still on the fence about sending my Z1R back.  I am definitely keeping the Utopia - I was going to keep the Z1R to play with (Amazon UK deal).  I am just afraid it will sit and gather dust while the Utopia gets all the action.
  
 Source will be an iPhone running into a TA which will be ordered next week


----------



## tradyblix

buzzlulu said:


> Curious why people think this.
> 
> I am planning on using an iPhone7 running Tidal and running a UpnP app which accesses my Rips from a downstairs computer.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, my experience with this is based on my experience with the iphone, the PHA-3 and the Mac and the PHA-3.

 First, Tidal iphone app doesn't seem to support MQA at all. So there's no MQA tidal stuff that definately sounds better than the otherwise great Hi-fi stuff. When you go into settings there's no mention of Hifi/ Master output and there's no Masters section, at least that I could find. 
  
 The other reason is that iphone7 never can light up the Hi-Fs light on the PHA-3. When connected to the mac I upsample everything by going to the Audio Midi settings and setting it to 32/192 or 32/384. It's obvious to me that this sounds better, with the Hi-Fs light lit up on any type of source file, 16 bit or not than leaving it in the normal mode or the output via phone. I don't know why it does... All that i know is that definately, it's better this way. 

 Since I have the same music, same app to compare with, I can see.. yes, upsampling is making this sound better. So... That's what I plan on doing with the ZH1ES, since it's a desktop unit that's going to be sitting next to my computer anyway. 
  
 When I get the unit tomorrow, I'll do side by side comparisons involving a Mac Mini 2011 and an iphone 7. Then I'll see if it's the same as my experience with PHA-3 and will report back my findings. Not everyone is going to agree, this is Head-fi. But I've long since learned to trust my own judgement.


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> How does the Z1R do running balanced from the TA as compared to SE from a Mojo/iPhone?  How much of an improvement - significant?  a little?
> 
> Still on the fence about sending my Z1R back.  I am definitely keeping the Utopia - I was going to keep the Z1R to play with (Amazon UK deal).  I am just afraid it will sit and gather dust while the Utopia gets all the action.
> 
> Source will be an iPhone running into a TA which will be ordered next week




TA is a significant improvements away from WM1Z already, not sure how Mojo would be for your tastes, but for mine, I did not like the Mojo soundstage, so I never considered it to be that good. IMO, even Zx2 running TRRS soundstage was better than Mojo, the only thing Mojo did well was the power delivery. When talking about Power delivery, you can say that TA offers plenty of it 

Do mind that you are comparing orange to Apple, a mid-tier portable to a high-end desktop class


----------



## WNBC

Can't speak to THZ1ES as I'm about 2 days away from getting mine, but my experience with Chord Mojo, I always felt that the sound from Macbook to Mojo via USB was better than iPhone/iPad to Mojo via Lightning to USB.  Don't recall if I tried to hear differences using Tidal, but I did try Spotify on Mac to Mojo vs Spotify on iPhone to Mojo.  iPhone as a source always sounded "relatively" more flat, less dynamic when compared to other sources.  Just my experience with FLAC files and "highest/best" quality Spotify files.  No upsampling.  Was not terrible using iPhone as a source, just seemed to me that Coaxial >> USB (Macbook) > USB-Lightning (iPhone).  I had that "aha" moment when I first tried the coaxial input of the Mojo.  I suspect that will be the case with the Sony, but maybe they've done their research on USB implementation and one will not need fancy cleaners or a DDC for coaxial input.  I will be trying all inputs of the THZ1ES and the best sounding one will be the one I will use for my desktop setup at home.  Looking forward to hearing the TA-ZH1ES.        
  
  
 Quote:


buzzlulu said:


> Curious why people think this.
> 
> I am planning on using an iPhone7 running Tidal and running a UpnP app which accesses my Rips from a downstairs computer.
> 
> ...


----------



## tradyblix

I got my TA-ZH1ES today, currently listening to it. 
  
 I got over the initial setup / adjustment reaction which can never be trusted and let my ears settle in on some new favorite tracks without being over analytical. 
  
 Some observations: 
  
 1.) I already knew from the PHA-3 I'd be using DSEE HX. And I'm keeping it here too - nice to see the bit/sample rate restrictions are gone and the 4 additional modes. I'll be using female vocal a lot I'm sure. 
 2.) I'm a fan of the DSD remastering engine. Weirdly, now it's preferable almost to get PCM in and upsample it because on straight DSD connections you can't use DSEE HX or the remastering, which I guess makes sense.
 3.) I'm definitely getting the "I hear something new in all my tracks / headphones again" vibe
 4.) I think I prefer the Phase Linearizer off, but too early to tell. 
 5.) For the person who asked me about how the LCD2.2 pre-fazor sounds - It sounds fantastic. Running in balanced mode. Best these pair of cans have sounded. 
 6.) First impressions are the amp won't go as high as I'd prefer - I kind of expected this from a sony digital amp. But it seems input source dependent as well... all in all - there's plenty of headroom for safe listening levels. I'm at around -14db now. 
 7.) I had some problems with Tidal. It crashed and wouldn't play through the amp. If you run into this, unplugging and replugging the USB corrects the stuck audio stream it leaves. I got it to play a track if I started iTunes first but then it would hang. I'm not sure if this is just my machine or what - probably it is. Currently listening to tidal via Audirvana Plus 2, although I'm frozen out of MQA tracks until I can solve this. I haven't tried my iPhone yet because I don't have the camera kit. I could try that. I could also try one of the 2 other macs I have or Windows. 
 8.) Gorgeous !!!
  
 That's it for now.


----------



## Whitigir

Congratulation and welcome to the. Club! I see you are Already doing balanced out! Enjoy it


----------



## tradyblix

Wow. if the Z7 with Kimber Cables sound this good off this thing... Maybe I really should sell some headphones and get the Z1R


----------



## Whitigir

If you love the Z7, yeah , u should


----------



## fa02

tradyblix said:


> 5.) For the person who asked me about how the LCD2.2 pre-fazor sounds - It sounds fantastic. Running in balanced mode. Best these pair of cans have sounded.


 
  
 Thank you very much for your impressions with the LCD2. I am very tempted now !!!


----------



## buzzlulu

Keep the impressions coming. I am away this week however I will be placing my order for the TA-ZH1ES so that it is there next Monday when I arrive back home. 

I will be using it with my Utopia - and maybe I will dust off my old Grado RS1 from when I was last active on Headfi back in 2003. It has been a while but I am back now!

After much debate I decided to send back the Z1R. Much like Whitigir I found the Utopia to be that much better and all it is cracked up to be. I truly felt that the Z1R would sit and gather dust while the Utopia saw all the action. Once you listen to it everything else pales in comparison. The money can be used for other things - did I hear WM1A or Z?? Or maybe throw caution to the wind and go crazy - I still can't get out of my mind the Stax 009 I heard at CanJam NY. 

Look at me - 14 years since I last prowled this place and I am going crazy again. 

Next thing on my agenda - research a balanced cable for the Utopia which has the new Sony balanced plug - to use on the TA and a potential WM1A/Z


----------



## tradyblix

So, with the TA-ZH1ES it is not necessary for me to go in like I used to do with the PHA-3 and force upsampling to get the best sound. The player in default mode is automatically up sampling to DSD 512 (11.2-12.1 Mhz) anyway. 
  
 So in that respect you can just let your player do it's thing, and hopefully it's outputting the correct format - The display is useful to know exactly what format you're in. 
  
 Here's a list of the support sampling rates on mac for interest :


----------



## Daroid

Thanks for your impressions, Tradyblix.
 I have finally pulled the trigger and ordered from Advancedmp3players in the UK. Going to test it with HD800S and will let you
 you know what I think of it, in particular the analog input performance using my vinyl rig (Thorens TD2001 w/ Benz Micro Silver, with THEL Phono-X RIAA/pre-amp).
 I'll also (more often, I think) use the digital inputs with my PC and Oppo UDP-203, so it's not like the analog input means everything to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  


buzzlulu said:


> Look at me - 14 years since I last prowled this place and I am going crazy again.


 
  
 Funny, it's about 12 years for me. They used to say "sorry about your wallet" and people were often suffering from "upgraditis". I guess this still applies, but I think it has been healthy not following the forums, and just be satisfied with the current state of audio equipment (until it's worn out of course).


----------



## buzzlulu

Why are people using this DAC - and others - to upsample from straight 16/44 cd rips?
Myself, and others I know, have gotten off of the "hi res" train as in hi res files bought from HDTracks and other online sellers. They are not true hi res files but rather simply upscaled- just as this DAC is doing. Most of the time they simply do not sound good. All of the upscaling in the world can't turn a true 16/44 into something it is not. 

Not looking to start a flame war - but rather mine is a serious question looking for some answers and alternative feedback. 

With that said - how does the TA perform as a straight pass through DAC/amp without any upsampling trickery i.e. a 16/44 rip is played exactly as that - 16/44.


----------



## tradyblix

The whole point of this Dacamp is upsampling. Everything is up sampled to DSD 512 by default out of the box. 
  
 To me, up sampling makes a noticeable difference. If you don't like it, or don't think it makes a difference, then this is probably not the amp for you. 
  
 The PHA-3 make a believer out of me in terms of up sampling. This just takes it to another level.
  
 There's a ton of people out there that don't believe in a.) phase linearizers b.) software filters (DSEE HX) or c.) upsampling (DSD, etc). In that case you might want to look at something like a WA22 that doesn't offer any digital enhancement at all. 
  
 I think this hobby is definitely not one size or one approach fits all. Some don't believe in burn in, some don't believe in upgrade cables, some don't believe in usb filters like the uptone regen or aq jitterbug, some do. It's similar with all this tech as well. 
  
 I have actually not run it without up sampling much because to me it sounds better with it on. I had the same experience with PHA-3. YMMV.


----------



## tradyblix

daroid said:


> Funny, it's about 12 years for me. They used to say "sorry about your wallet" and people were often suffering from "upgraditis". I guess this still applies, but I think it has been healthy not following the forums, and just be satisfied with the current state of audio equipment (until it's worn out of course).


 
  
 I think that people generally tend to go to Head-Fi when they're in the market for, or just bought, new equipment.
  
 Because of course they want to validate that they bought something considered good by other music afficionados, and by other people with equipment experience.
  
 The hobby is actually much more fast moving than I realized. The amount of change since 2010 is truly staggering. Still remember when it was all weird boutique stuff and Grados, lol. I certainly thought I knew it all once and realized that I don't... Still don't, probably never will. However, I am a lot more knowledgable now about different equipment and price / performance than I used to be.


----------



## buzzlulu

tradyblix said:


> The whole point of this Dacamp is upsampling. Everything is up sampled to DSD 512 by default out of the box.
> 
> To me, up sampling makes a noticeable difference. If you don't like it, or don't think it makes a difference, then this is probably not the amp for you.
> 
> ...





Wow. As someone who was about to pull the trigger on this amp you have just seriously put me on the fence. Is it true that the whole point of this Sony DAC/amp is upsampling? This is the default setting i.e. Intended use by the designers? 

 I thought I would be getting a phenomenal DAC/amp all in one box which provided stellar performance with the - "option" - of upsampling should one want it. If upsampling was, instead, the whole point of the design and intended to be on all the time than it sounds like I should be looking elsewhere. 

Do other TA owners feel this was the design brief of the TA - to be primarily used for upsampling?


----------



## AppleheadMay

buzzlulu said:


> Wow. As someone who was about to pull the trigger on this amp you have just seriously put me on the fence. Is it true that the whole point of this Sony DAC/amp is upsampling? This is the default setting i.e. Intended use by the designers?
> 
> I thought I would be getting a phenomenal DAC/amp all in one box which provided stellar performance with the - "option" - of upsampling should one want it. If upsampling was, instead, the whole point of the design and intended to be on all the time than it sounds like I should be looking elsewhere.
> 
> Do other TA owners feel this was the design brief of the TA - to be primarily used for upsampling?


 
  
 It sounded better with upsampling indeed.
 Also a bit underpowered if you ask me.


----------



## purk

buzzlulu said:


> Wow. As someone who was about to pull the trigger on this amp you have just seriously put me on the fence. Is it true that the whole point of this Sony DAC/amp is upsampling? This is the default setting i.e. Intended use by the designers?
> 
> I thought I would be getting a phenomenal DAC/amp all in one box which provided stellar performance with the - "option" - of upsampling should one want it. If upsampling was, instead, the whole point of the design and intended to be on all the time than it sounds like I should be looking elsewhere.
> 
> Do other TA owners feel this was the design brief of the TA - to be primarily used for upsampling?


 
 What does it matter if it is upsampled or not if it has proven to sound good?  Some people prefer tubes to color the sound while some others use exotic resistors and capacitors to do that job?  Why people still enjoy the heck out of the Yggy when it down converted DSD into PCM?  Seriously though...you are over thinking this.  You can always audition the TA and use the return policy if it doesn't suit you.


----------



## tradyblix

Well, it's 


buzzlulu said:


> Wow. As someone who was about to pull the trigger on this amp you have just seriously put me on the fence. Is it true that the whole point of this Sony DAC/amp is upsampling? This is the default setting i.e. Intended use by the designers?
> 
> I thought I would be getting a phenomenal DAC/amp all in one box which provided stellar performance with the - "option" - of upsampling should one want it. If upsampling was, instead, the whole point of the design and intended to be on all the time than it sounds like I should be looking elsewhere.
> 
> Do other TA owners feel this was the design brief of the TA - to be primarily used for upsampling?


 

 Well, it is THE ONLY amp that can convert PCM streams on the fly to DSD 11/12 mhz AFAIK.  Or at least the only mainstream amp with that capability. 
  
 So... kinda hard to say it's not intended to be used right ? I mean if you want to turn all that off... why buy the amp ?
  
 As far as underpowered - it's a sony digital amp - it isn't as loud as say, tube amps I have that can push it, for sure. Loudness is also highly source dependent. On my mac, iTunes is louder than the Audirvana 2 / Tidal output. I haven't used a mobile device yet but I could see that it might also not be as loud as some want - especially with the 800 and LCD2. On the Z7 and TH-X00 I could probably blow my ears out. There's a lot of variables at play. 
  
 Nobody should be listening over 85 dbs anyway. Have you ever checked your headphones decibels? that's not that loud. There is a real trend in this hobby to "turn it up" as you enjoy stuff - you'll trash your hearing long term if you listen for 6 hours over 85 dbs that way. Trust me, I already did it in my 20s. I have permanent tinnitus that I just live with. 
  
 If someone writing something on the forums "puts you on the fence" i would urge you to go and have a listen in a hi-fi shop, can meet, or at a friends house and decide for yourself.  I would say you need to have at least 30 minutes with it to settle in tho. Snap judgements on sound quality in the first few minutes really can be deceiving, especially if your expectations are too high.


----------



## tradyblix

And just to be clear - I'm keeping project Ember for that reason. if I want to use this as a pure dac and get a tube amp stage I can. I haven't used it in that config because I'm just exploring the capabilities of this as a dac / amp. Again - one size does not fit all when it comes to audio. Which is probably why I have so many headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 As always - this is just my opinion - subjective experience and YMMV and you may not concur.


----------



## Bren Arden

U could always look into other dac-amp combos such as: RME-Adi2 pro, Grace designs m920, COS Engineering H2, Benchmark Media DAC3 HGC, Antelope Audio Zodiac, Lynx Studio Hilo, Audio-GD master 11/NOS11, Ifi audio PRO IDSD, Goldmund HDA, Questyle CMA800i/600i etc...  Just to provide a few alternatives u might or might not yet know.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> What does it matter if it is upsampled or not if it has proven to sound good?  Some people prefer tubes to color the sound while some others use exotic resistors and capacitors to do that job?  Why people still enjoy the heck out of the Yggy when it down converted DSD into PCM?  Seriously though...you are over thinking this.  You can always audition the TA and use the return policy if it doesn't suit you.




This is too true, either way, every device will be tuned and colored in it own flavor anyways.

Yes, the TS is an superb sounding device with excellent DSD remastering engine. There are noticeably improvements, out it simply, my YouTube 320kpbs now sounds so lively from iPad streaming.


----------



## buzzlulu

Wow - thanks for all of the replies

I might have opened up a can of worms with this one. I did some googling and reading up on DSD upsampling and I am starting to dig myself into a hole trying to get an understanding. 

Anyone care to enlighten me with a "brief" synopsis?

From what I gather it appears that almost all current DAC chips upconvert to DSD internally before outputting an analog signal - so this appears to be pretty universal. 
Software programs such as Foobar, JRiver etc can also upconvert to DSD so that the DAC already receives a DSD signal before hand. 

Finally - I also read some who say that DSD is dead in the water and never gained any real traction. It is logical that Sony has made the TA for DSD conversion - they were the ones who invented DSD with Phillips. 

Can anyone give me a down and dirty primer?


----------



## buzzlulu

bren arden said:


> U could always look into other dac-amp combos such as: RME-Adi2 pro, Grace designs m920, COS Engineering H2, Benchmark Media DAC3 HGC, Antelope Audio Zodiac, Lynx Studio Hilo, Audio-GD master 11/NOS11, Ifi audio PRO IDSD, Goldmund HDA, Questyle CMA800i/600i etc...  Just to provide a few alternatives u might or might not yet know.




Thanks for the list
You forgot to mention the elephant in the room - Hugo 2!!


----------



## tradyblix

I am sure the Hugo 2 is also awesome, although I have not heard it. It's also using an FPGA approach, and Chord is highly regarded, so it's totally worth looking at if you're in the market.
  
 For me personally, I just think the Chord stuff is a little bizarre in terms of it's industrial design. I'm not a fan. And not labelling your outputs is criminal (Dave..looking at you) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 I got some real sparkle out of the Grado RS1i's last night with this thing. I hadn't used those in forever but they're fantastic for older rock / jazz / vocal tracks. Forgot how good their mid/treble can get.


----------



## tradyblix

As far as DSD - I am by no means an expert. It was originally developed for use with Super Audio CD. That format is definitely dead. I think it was used in DVD Audio as well... Also dead. 
  
 Sony has a long history of hanging on to their proprietary formats for a long time. anyone remember ATRAC, developed for the minidisc? And there were 3 versions of it. That predated MP3s. Also, Betamax comes to mind. 
  
 Like others have expressed at the end of the day, all I really care about is sound quality. I don't care how I achieve it.
  
 I bought this amp mainly because I have headphones I enjoy that use and need a balanced connection in the dual 3.5 format. This amp is compatible with that. It's also compatible with 4 pin XLR and a new 4.4mm TRRS standard for balanced, which is pretty neat. 
  
 I had a good experience with the PHA-3 and sound quality and I loved the industrial design of this thing. I've wanted it ever since it was announced and I decided I owed it to myself to get a high quality desktop amp that was solid state, to replace the PHA-3 which, let's face it, won't last forever since it has a battery and is pretty small. I wanted some insurance for home listening and wanted to treat myself. I could have gotten a Chord Hugo - the Hugo 2 is too new to consider. But I liked this and the output options better. 
  
 So as far as whether you need to do this kind of up sampling, well that is up for debate. if you have a great amp and it produces great sound quality, you don't need to. This just goes about it a different way. I just trust my ears. I noticed that up sampling makes a difference on the PHA-3 as well... 192khz sounded better than the identical rate.
  
 I know you cannot create new data. But it makes a difference... it sounds better. At least if you have a clean signal path like the one Core Audio on the Mac provides. Dunno about direct/integer/ASIO modes on Windows, that's a different story and the results might not be the same.
  
 At the end of the day - find a place that will let you demo and demo it yourself, only way to be sure you want something IMO.


----------



## Daroid

bren arden said:


> U could always look into other dac-amp combos such as: RME-Adi2 pro, Grace designs m920, COS Engineering H2, Benchmark Media DAC3 HGC, Antelope Audio Zodiac, Lynx Studio Hilo, Audio-GD master 11/NOS11, Ifi audio PRO IDSD, Goldmund HDA, Questyle CMA800i/600i etc...  Just to provide a few alternatives u might or might not yet know.


 

 That's a nice list, and might come in handy if I don't like the ZH1ES and want to return it.
 For me, a remote is crucial along with compactness (no 19" for me), and prior to the ZH1ES, I was considering the Violectric V281, Audio-GD NFB28 and Oppo HA-1.
  
 Some of the suggestions like the Zodiac and HDA are definitely out of the price bracket of the TA-ZH1ES by far. Interestingly, the German AUDIO magazine rated the Questyle CMA800i one point less than the ZH1ES, so according to them, it should be in the same family, sound wise.


----------



## fa02

appleheadmay said:


> It sounded better with upsampling indeed.
> Also a bit underpowered if you ask me.


 
  
 Can you please explain what do you mean with underpowered ?


----------



## balleklorin

tradyblix said:


> As far as DSD - I am by no means an expert. It was originally developed for use with Super Audio CD. That format is definitely dead. I think it was used in DVD Audio as well... Also dead.


 
  
 SACD and DSD isn't dead. Comes out quite a lot of SACDs on labels like MFSL and Audio Fidelity plus a lot of classical music. It wasn't used on DVD-Audio, that file format is MPL. HDtracks have released many albums on DSD lately.


----------



## Bren Arden

I read a great review of the COS engineering H1 at sixmoons, he compares it to a Goldmund HDA signature and qualitywise iirc. Just because of the 1sec buffer i think it wont work out for films/gaming.


----------



## tradyblix

bren arden said:


> I read a great review of the COS engineering H1 at sixmoons, he compares it to a Goldmund HDA signature and qualitywise iirc. Just because of the 1sec buffer i think it wont work out for films/gaming.


 
  
 This is not a gaming device. I mean what gamer needs a 2,000 dollar audiophile quality device ? Footsteps in DSD12 Mhz ? LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For movies, better players usually allow sync offsets. 
  
 Since we're on the topic I noticed: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/goldmund2/1.html talks about upsampling. Pretty common ! 
  


balleklorin said:


> SACD and DSD isn't dead. Comes out quite a lot of SACDs on labels like MFSL and Audio Fidelity plus a lot of classical music. It was't used on DVD-Audio, that file format is MPL. HDtracks have released many albums on DSD lately.


 
  
 I stand corrected. Physical media to me, is dead. I realize some may still use CDs, and for those SACD is a good option I guess. I certainly cant' get any of the music I listen to in that format. So it's cool that I can upscale PCM using this amp to it. I do have a couple of classical albums I like as DSD / DXD files, that's as close as I come. Well... not anymore I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's all DSD from now on


----------



## AppleheadMay

fa02 said:


> Can you please explain what do you mean with underpowered ?


 
  
 Being able to go easily between -10 and -20 on a scale of -100 to 0 with easy to drive phones. I read some other users reporting that in this thread too.
  
 Connection was straight via USB to a Mac with different software players all with volume control disabled. The same setup connected to other dac/amps I own and owned usually is really loud when nearing 50% of the volume control.


----------



## tradyblix

appleheadmay said:


> Being able to go easily between -10 and -20 on a scale of -100 to 0 with easy to drive phones. I read some other users reporting that in this thread too.
> 
> Connection was straight via USB to a Mac with different software players all with volume control disabled. The same setup connected to other dac/amps I own and owned usually is really loud when nearing 50% of the volume control.


 
  
  
 Most of my headphones I can sit between -15.0db and -1 db and it is plenty loud for me on high gain. Especially on balanced where you are getting 1.2 w to each channel. But there's not a ton of additional headroom like say you might find on a tube amp. I could see how some might want it louder.


----------



## fa02

appleheadmay said:


> Being able to go easily between -10 and -20 on a scale of -100 to 0 with easy to drive phones. I read some other users reporting that in this thread too.
> 
> Connection was straight via USB to a Mac with different software players all with volume control disabled. The same setup connected to other dac/amps I own and owned usually is really loud when nearing 50% of the volume control.


 

 Thank you for your answer. I ask this, while it seems that the Audeze LCD2 pre fazor match very well with the amp and the LCD2 is notoriously difficult to drive,


----------



## Daroid

tradyblix said:


> Most of my headphones I can sit between -15.0db and -1 db and it is plenty loud for me on high gain. Especially on balanced where you are getting 1.2 w to each channel. But there's not a ton of additional headroom like say you might find on a tube amp. I could see how some might want it louder.


 
  
 What is you normal listening level with HD800 and would the ZH1ES still have headroom to allow it to get uncomfortably loud you think?


----------



## TSAVJason

daroid said:


> What is you normal listening level with HD800 and would the ZH1ES still have headroom to allow it to get uncomfortably loud you think?




Absolutely without a doubt


----------



## WNBC

Going to try my HD800S with the TA-Z tonight.  I've been hearing a lot of praise for the combo. 
  
 Out of curiosity, do people hear big changes with any of the settings?  Granted I only got to hear several tracks last night, but quick toggling didn't yield anything I could easily pick up.  Mostly 16/44 and 24/96 FLAC, jazz trios.  Maybe the settings are more apparent with some tracks and genres over others.
  
 Amarra > iFi iUSB3.0 > TA-Z > Z1R


----------



## TSAVJason

wnbc said:


> Going to try my HD800S with the TA-Z tonight.  I've been hearing a lot of praise for the combo.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do people hear big changes with any of the settings?  Granted I only got to hear several tracks last night, but quick toggling didn't yield anything I could easily pick up.  Mostly 16/44 and 24/96 FLAC, jazz trios.  Maybe the settings are more apparent with some tracks and genres over others.
> 
> Amarra > iFi iUSB3.0 > TA-Z > Z1R


 I think you'll like the support the ES amplifier gives the 800. Of course the source is important.


----------



## purk

daroid said:


> What is you normal listening level with HD800 and would the ZH1ES still have headroom to allow it to get uncomfortably loud you think?




Plenty loud and plenty of sound. You will have to use a high gain setting however.


----------



## AppleheadMay

fa02 said:


> Thank you for your answer. I ask this, while it seems that the Audeze LCD2 pre fazor match very well with the amp and the LCD2 is notoriously difficult to drive,


 
  
  
 Never tried it with a planar though in the short time I had the amp.
 I did like its sound signature: detailed, smooth and clean without being bright, a hint of warmth actually.


----------



## purk

bren arden said:


> U could always look into other dac-amp combos such as: RME-Adi2 pro, Grace designs m920, COS Engineering H2, Benchmark Media DAC3 HGC, Antelope Audio Zodiac, Lynx Studio Hilo, Audio-GD master 11/NOS11, Ifi audio PRO IDSD, Goldmund HDA, Questyle CMA800i/600i etc...  Just to provide a few alternatives u might or might not yet know.


 
 Grace is know more about their DAC rather than the head amp.  Same can be said with the Benchmark DAC3 HGC and Antelope Audio Zodiac stuff.  The CMA600i was a mixed bag for me and it isn't the same level as the ZH1ES IMO. The CMA800i is a very nice unit but will not better the ZH1ES's headphone output unless you run a mono-block system.


----------



## Sarnia

tradyblix said:


> Most of my headphones I can sit between -15.0db and -1 db and it is plenty loud for me on high gain. Especially on balanced where you are getting 1.2 w to each channel. But there's not a ton of additional headroom like say you might find on a tube amp. I could see how some might want it louder.


 
  
 What headphones are you using?
  
 With my Hifiman HE1000v2s I'm generally at -35 to +40db on high gain, with a max of -30db. I went to -25db last night and found it too loud to be enjoyable. These seem to be the hardest to drive headphones I've had.
  
 The HD800S I was generally between -35 and -45db on high gain. The Z1Rs I was the same range but on low gain.
  
 I can't imagine taking any of those to anywhere near -15 and -1db, I'd be seriously concerned about damaging my hearing.


----------



## tradyblix

The ones you see in my sig basically. 
  
 I have a pair of 600s right now in balanced at -12db. 
  
 Like I said - it depends on the source. Everyone's hearing sensitivity is different too.
  
 I'm just agreeing with the general sentiments that it could go louder. You are are definatley listening at low levels. Which is good ! I'm more comfortable about 10dbs higher than that in the settings from -20 and up. 
  
 Btw - I have problems with Tidal with all 3 of my macs. It has a hard time talking to the dac properly. 
  
 2 Sierra's and One Yosemite, fresh installs of Tidal on all of them. 

 It's like it fails to be able to open a stream. If I have iTunes playing already through it and then I start Tidal, it will play through it, at least until the track ends or I try to seek lol. I hope they get this fixed, since I want to use Tidal. Tidal has a lot of other bugs tho; its' always crashing (the mac client) so I hope they'll fix it. It's the first time I've had problems like this with it. In the meantime I'm going back to iTunes.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

The TA-ZH1ES has very very low noise floor even at HIGH gain. It is OK to drive it at full throttle to achieve your desired listening level.


----------



## Whitigir

That is true about the TA noise floor. I can't help but wonder if it can be made as a good pre-amp from it headphones out


----------



## WNBC

Sir, you are quite right!
  
 Day 1:  Mac > Amarra > iFi iUSB3.0 > USB > TA > ZR1 (unbalanced)
 Day 2:  Mac > Amarra > Intona > SU-1 > Coaxial RCA > TA > ZR1 (unbalanced) and HD800S (balanced)
  
 Wow, what a difference a day makes.  With the Day 1 setup I was not hearing the magic everyone was talking about with the combo.  I had good success with the iUSB3.0 + iMicro iDSD BL + Z1R so I figured it would be fine with the TA-Z.  The end result was a warm, laid back presentation.  Bass was elevated and mids pushed back.  
  
 However, with the SU-1 DDC in play and using the Coaxial input, the TA-Z really shined.  It wasn't giving me extra warmth and the body was back into the music, mids no longer pushed back.  Plenty of detail and transparency.  No warm blanket any more.  I really like the SU-1 with my other DACs so I think it will have it's place with the Sony DAC/amp.   
  
 The TA-Z does in fact sound great with the HD 800 S.     
  
  
  
 Quote:


tsavjason said:


> I think you'll like the support the ES amplifier gives the 800. Of course the source is important.


----------



## Daroid

whitigir said:


> That is true about the TA noise floor. I can't help but wonder if it can be made as a good pre-amp from it headphones out


 

 Isn't that the purpose of the pre-out RCAs on the back? Or is there any sonic difference between them? Just curious as I have no clue


----------



## Whitigir

daroid said:


> Isn't that the purpose of the pre-out RCAs on the back? Or is there any sonic difference between them? Just curious as I have no clue




RCA is single ended while the headphones are balanced with the unique hybrid circuitry analog-class D amp


----------



## Daroid

whitigir said:


> RCA is single ended while the headphones are balanced with the unique hybrid circuitry analog-class D amp


 

 Single-ended of course. I couldn't find anywhere where it states where pre-out is taken in the chain. Directly after the S-master stage? Anyone know for certain?


----------



## tradyblix

We should probably get in the habit of calling this the ZH1 and not the TA which is shared by a group of other devices in Sony's line or ES, which stands for elevated standard. ZH1 is the actual model identifier. 
  
 The preamp out must come ..... anyone read japanese ?


----------



## tradyblix

> Day 1:  Mac > Amarra > iFi iUSB3.0 > USB > TA > ZR1 (unbalanced)
> Day 2:  Mac > Amarra > Intona > SU-1 > Coaxial RCA > TA > ZR1 (unbalanced) and HD800S (balanced)


 
  
 Yeah... you definately have to be careful how complicated your audio reproduction chain can get. I really do think less is more in these types of cases. 
  
 But... I've seen some wild setups and people swear it sounds great so...who am I to judge. 
  
 Everyone wants to use the equipment they always liked with other devices, but synergy is a real thing and well... yeah.


----------



## Daroid

Hmm by that topology figure, the only places where you can take a pre-amp output is after the low-pass filter (1), or at the output where the headphones are shown (2), but in the latter configuration, the gain of the amplifiers would be 1x. Regardless of whether the pre-amp output is taken at location (1) or (2), the sound is exactly the same. I would imagine that (1) cannot source a lot of current, which is ok, as long as the pre-amp connects to a high impedance load, which is always the case. If it is true that the pre-amp output is taken from (1), the sound cannot be worse than the headphone output.
  
 The figure doesn't tell us more than the one on the US Sony page. The analog amp is a correction amp:
 The signal from the digital amp contains the Signal + Error. The error is distortion created by connecting a load to the output of the amplifier. The analog amplifier, is a difference amplifier that takes the input of the digital amp (Signal + Error) and the (pre-amp) Signal after the low pass. The output of that amplifier would be (Signal+Error-Signal) = Error.
 Would that mean that the Error is output on L- and R-? and Signal+Error on L+ and R+, I'm not sure of that as that would mean the correction amp should be able to drive headphones.


----------



## tradyblix

I have to say Project Ember sounds pretty damn good out of the Pre Out. I am using a Telefunken 12AX7 with it. 
  
 So for me the ZH1 really works well as a dac. I still have all the capabilities just an alternate amp stage, one I can use Project Kameleon with (Headphone filter). 
  
 I have to say tho that as good as it is, the onboard amp is still a little better than it. There's a little more tube harmonics on the Ember but it loses out on some body. 
  
 Mac > iTunes/Tidal > AQ Jitterbug > AQ Evergreen USB B > ZH1ES > AQ Tower > Project Kameleon > AQ Tower > Project Ember > Single Ended > Headphone or 
 Mac > iTunes/Tidal > AQ Jitterbug > AQ Evergreen USB B > ZH1ES > Balanced > Headphone
  
 I'm a pretty happy camper.


----------



## tradyblix

appleheadmay said:


> Never tried it with a planar though in the short time I had the amp.
> I did like its sound signature: detailed, smooth and clean without being bright, a hint of warmth actually.


 
  
 This amp doesn't have any problems driving the LCD-2 in balanced mode. I have all the volume I need at -10.0 db and I'm pretty deaf. *Note: High gain is always on. 
  
 I can def tell you it's a good match at this point. Although the HD800 has more detail, I really think the LCD2 is a better headphone... Audeze has been maligned alot and maybe I got a "good" pair, I dunno, but it you know, you have friggin bass, real bass on the LCD2 where the 800 is sometimes quite thin and sterile. Maybe I should mod it I dunno. I don't like modding headphones, it changes the sound too much. The 800s is not worth 600 bucks more IMO. Not now the Z1R and Utopia exist. 
  
 *tries single ended using the 4 conductor Audeze standard cable*.
  
 Wow. yeah. Man balanced sounds better, but there's still quite a bit of volume here. more than enough IMO. I could not listen at levels above say -5.0db that would be unpleasant.


----------



## WNBC

I will get around to a simple direct USB input into TA-Z.  I've heard enough poor USB implementations over the years that some help is usually needed.  I think we can all name some high end DACs that benefit from a DDC or bridge.  Same goes for USB vs Coaxial input.  I haven't come across many DACs with USB input sounding better than coaxial.  Well, maybe DACs in the price range of "reasonable".  
  
 Maybe the TA-Z will prove that it's USB input is on par with other inputs.  It could very well be that straight USB input sounds best with the Sony.  I think that is this weekend's challenge.  I'm just moving backwards from complex to simple          
  
  
 Quote:


tradyblix said:


> Yeah... you definately have to be careful how complicated your audio reproduction chain can get. I really do think less is more in these types of cases.
> 
> But... I've seen some wild setups and people swear it sounds great so...who am I to judge.
> 
> Everyone wants to use the equipment they always liked with other devices, but synergy is a real thing and well... yeah.


----------



## tradyblix

I want to clarify a statement I made earlier about mobile devices and this amp. What I said only applies to iphones. Sony's series of walkmans that use the connector are able to output hi-res audio, as are some android devices. So those should be better quality than Apple's output. In particular the WM1Z and WM1A as well as the earlier device, I forget it's name atm. NX2 or something.


----------



## tradyblix

I feel like every time I pick new equipment up or upgrade, I learn a little bit more and that sometimes change the beliefs and assumptions I'd had. 

I was listening to the ZH1 tonight with the HD700s, a much maligned pair of headphones, in balanced mode.

I'd previously heard these headphones on the PHA-3 and they left me a little cold. They were sterile, almost TOO sibiliant in the highs and quite annoying on certain tracks. They still sounded good to me. Good enough to know they were better than the 600 even. 

But listening to them on the ZH1, they sound so different. Much better. I might even prefer them to the 800 in some ways like bass response. It really got me thinking how important equipment synergy really is to your listening enjoyment.


----------



## Whitigir

Yes, synergy is everything....and TA does excellent with anything more neutral and balanced like Utopia


----------



## zxathlon

Has it been released in US? Where to buy it?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

zxathlon said:


> Has it been released in US? Where to buy it?


 
  
 Woo Audio has all the Signature Series products. Email info@wooaudio.com


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I am trying to figure out why is this. I have Westone W80 which is a 5 Ohms BA so the "other regions" ZH1es would 'technically' be a better pairing.
  
 For US Region: The impedance of headphones corresponds to 12-600 ohm.

*For Other Regions: The impedance of headphones corresponds to 8-600 ohm*.


----------



## TSAVJason

hifiguy528 said:


> I am trying to figure out why is this. I have Westone W80 which is a 5 Ohms BA so the "other regions" ZH1es would 'technically' be a better pairing.
> 
> For US Region: The impedance of headphones corresponds to 12-600 ohm.
> 
> *For Other Regions: The impedance of headphones corresponds to 8-600 ohm*.


 So does the store that loaned a The ES amp for your review. The Source AV.  We don't quite understand this either.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

tsavjason said:


> So does the store that loaned a The ES amp for your review. The Source AV.


 
  
 That store is awesome!


----------



## TSAVJason

zxathlon said:


> Has it been released in US? Where to buy it?


 Released Dec 19th 2016 @TheSourceAV and we still keep have plenty of them.


----------



## Whitigir

daroid said:


> Hmm by that topology figure, the only places where you can take a pre-amp output is after the low-pass filter (1), or at the output where the headphones are shown (2), but in the latter configuration, the gain of the amplifiers would be 1x. Regardless of whether the pre-amp output is taken at location (1) or (2), the sound is exactly the same. I would imagine that (1) cannot source a lot of current, which is ok, as long as the pre-amp connects to a high impedance load, which is always the case. If it is true that the pre-amp output is taken from (1), the sound cannot be worse than the headphone output.
> 
> The figure doesn't tell us more than the one on the US Sony page. The analog amp is a correction amp:
> The signal from the digital amp contains the Signal + Error. The error is distortion created by connecting a load to the output of the amplifier. The analog amplifier, is a difference amplifier that takes the input of the digital amp (Signal + Error) and the (pre-amp) Signal after the low pass. The output of that amplifier would be (Signal+Error-Signal) = Error.
> Would that mean that the Error is output on L- and R-? and Signal+Error on L+ and R+, I'm not sure of that as that would mean the correction amp should be able to drive headphones.




I could be wrong, and I only speculate.


The way I see it I see that class D and digital processing inevitably invite "noises", and then Sony came up with the idea to get this signal and have it processed by "analog amplification" for generating and filtering on the Negative and return line. In this senses, the "noises" were generated to stay reversed in the exact frequency as the "noises" from the class D amplification. Then, feeding this negative return line into the final processing, the "negative cancel out the positive noises" which results in the "error corrections" that Sony mentioned.

This noises is not just the floor noises, but also the errors even from the digital sources itself as well. Therefore, Sony called it the "error corrections"

The engineers however, admitted that he discovered this by an accident though . 

This is the reason why I really want to try the headphones out as "pre-amp" into any dedicated amp and see how it fair


----------



## tradyblix

That's interesting. I guess it's possible, I mean doing some reading on this online it seems it's only the other way that is a bad idea, and this way (headphone out used as pre-amp) is less of a problem.
  
 I don't have any other equipment atm that requires a balanced in tho - but if someone out there does and has access to this amp, I'd be interested to know if that works or not
  
 This is one of the blackest noise floors I've heard from a device tho.


----------



## Daroid

whitigir said:


> I could be wrong, and I only speculate.
> 
> 
> The way I see it I see that class D and digital processing inevitably invite "noises", and then Sony came up with the idea to get this signal and have it processed by "analog amplification" for generating and filtering on the Negative and return line. In this senses, the "noises" were generated to stay reversed in the exact frequency as the "noises" from the class D amplification. Then, feeding this negative return line into the final processing, the "negative cancel out the positive noises" which results in the "error corrections" that Sony mentioned.
> ...


 
  
 I think we have more or less the same interpretation of this thing actually. The noise/errors in class D is due to switching, which cannot be performed completely well, since a square wave requires infinite bandwidth and it becomes worse when the transistors sees a load. And the noise generated to stay reverse automatically happens when inverting the signal as it occurs on the inverting input on a simple op-amp difference amplifier. But how they keep phase and amplitude under control between both amplifiers, and how they made an ultra-ultra-low-noise analog amplifier is ingenious, accident or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Errors on digital sources cannot be corrected once received as corrupted, unless some sort of forward-error correction is supplied in the protocol, which is not the case as I understand it with SPDIF.
  
 Not sure what would happen when you connect what corresponds to a very high impedance load on the headphone output - it will probably be okay.
  


tradyblix said:


> I have to say Project Ember sounds pretty damn good out of the Pre Out. I am using a Telefunken 12AX7 with it.


 
  
 Excellent, thanks for testing that out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I just can't wait until my ZH1 arrives.


----------



## Paraducks

bren arden said:


> I read a great review of the COS engineering H1 at sixmoons, he compares it to a Goldmund HDA signature and qualitywise iirc. Just because of the 1sec buffer i think it wont work out for films/gaming.


 
 Hello guy, I have the COS H1. If you want to play games or watch movies, just switch off the button of buffer.
  
 I don't have Z1R, yet COS H1 works well with my ATH L3000 & SONY Z7. The COS H1 has very clear and bright sound. Perhaps it will go well with Z1R.


----------



## Bren Arden

K tyvm for the info. I have a Violectric v850 and plan to buy Violectric V280 to combine it with. But i can always sell the dac and go for all in one like tazies  or COS h1. XD


----------



## dan_can

@HiFiGuy528 How is the DAC section of TA-ZH1ES compared to HAP-Z1ES?


----------



## hugopua

dan_can said:


> @HiFiGuy528 How is the DAC section of TA-ZH1ES compared to HAP-Z1ES?


 
 The DAC section compare between TA-ZH1ES and HAP-Z1ES is TA-ZH1ES better than HAP-Z1ES. FYI, HAP-Z1ES doens't support USB audio output support last time but Sony launched new firmware to add this function after TA-ZH1ES launched. This means Sony very confident to their signature TA-ZH1ES.


----------



## dan_can

@hugopua Thanks for the info. I was not concerned about the capability of digital output. In that regard, they should be same, I guess.


----------



## SmileClick

Sometime ago, I was evaluating 2 products mainly Chord Hugo 2 or Sony TA-ZH1ES to purchase basing on SQ and value for money for their Pcba design and components. Since Hugo 2 is not available on the market, and Hugo is used in comparison . The prices on both Hugo 2 and Sony TA ZH1ES is almost close to each other. Guess which products is value for money?


----------



## buzzlulu

smileclick said:


> Sometime ago, I was evaluating 2 products mainly Chord Hugo 2 or Sony TA-ZH1ES to purchase basing on SQ and value for money for their Pcba design and components. Since Hugo 2 is not available on the market, and Hugo is used in comparison . The prices on both Hugo 2 and Sony TA ZH1ES is almost close to each other. Guess which products is value for money?




Which?


----------



## Whitigir

I guess it is SoNy TA that has most value


----------



## Leviticus

I've realised that, when one only possesses mid-tier headphones such as the Sennheiser Momentum (2nd generation), buying the TA is not worth it. Why am I saying this? Because my Fostex TH900 are currently being repaired by Fostex themselves and I have only the Momentum at my disposal, which usually are my go-to cans when I need portability. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 There really is no big difference between the ZX2 alone and the ZX2+TA. Yet, when using TOTL headphones, the difference is quite astonishing, especially when using the balanced out.
  
 I need my headphones back....!


----------



## buzzlulu

Still waiting for original poster to reply 

And- does the best value one also give the best performance???


----------



## TSAVJason

hugopua said:


> The DAC section compare between TA-ZH1ES and HAP-Z1ES is TA-ZH1ES better than HAP-Z1ES. FYI, HAP-Z1ES doens't support USB audio output support last time but Sony launched new firmware to add this function after TA-ZH1ES launched. This means Sony very confident to their signature TA-ZH1ES.


 You should check your software. There should be no problem playing through via USB now


----------



## SmileClick

Sony TA ZH1ES have many custom IC and Looking at the complexity of their design... It is worth more than the current market prices.


----------



## Whitigir

smileclick said:


> Sony TA ZH1ES have many custom IC and Looking at the complexity of their design... It is worth more than the current market prices.




Yupe! I knew it by the performances . Thanks for the confirmation


----------



## buzzlulu

Ok - here is a question for TA owners
I think it is pretty much acknowledged that the SE output is not as powerful or as good as the Balanced output.

I have yet to purchase balanced cables for my Utopia however I do want to test out the TA. I will need to test using its SE output. The device I currently use is a Mojo - obviously also run SE.

I hope that I will be able to see the TA able to show its superiority over the Mojo - even in SE mode??? I am going to hope that it is easily BETTER than the Mojo??

One last question - I am going to assume the Balanced out on the TA is of the same quality level from both the XLR and Sony 4.4mm ports???


----------



## WNBC

I've been using the Z1R with a single-ended Sony Kimber cable.  It's an excellent match.  I would buy the TA even if it were only SE and it probably would be less expensive.  I've been using my HD800S with a balanced cable.  Another excellent pairing.  I'm sure others here can speak to Utopia pairing and synergy.  I don't necessarily believe balanced is better for every amp and headphone, but that's a whole other debate in itself.  I think you'll be happy with the TA in either balanced or single-ended mode.  It's top-notch.  
  
 I have not owned the Mojo in a while so I would be relying solely on memory and I don't necessarily want to do that.  All I can say is that I don't feel the TZ is relatively overpriced for what it does.  Many will argue it is underpriced in comparison to other products even within the Sony lineup.  I do currently have the iDSD BL which is in same price range as Mojo.  Though different in some sonic qualities, I do feel the Mojo and iDSD are equal competitors.  I can easily tell that the TA is a higher end DAC and amp for many qualities already discussed in this thread.  So, better?  Yes.  Worth the price of admission?  I think so, but only you can determine that and you never know, the Mojo + Utopia could have some special magic.  If you can hear the TA + Utopia first then that is of course the best option.    
  
   
  
  
 Quote:


buzzlulu said:


> Ok - here is a question for TA owners
> I think it is pretty much acknowledged that the SE output is not as powerful or as good as the Balanced output.
> 
> I have yet to purchase balanced cables for my Utopia however I do want to test out the TA. I will need to test using its SE output. The device I currently use is a Mojo - obviously also run SE.
> ...


----------



## Whitigir

TA single-ended out is not bad, not as in a sense of their Walkman from SE to Balanced. As much as I observed, the balanced has more power while SE is not, in the mean while SE still offer pretty good quality and performances. I had yet to critically compare, but only doing it leisurely here and there.

So...in a senses....TA is ways better than Mojo...

Can we stop comparing a portable device that fit in your hand to a desktop device that can hardly fit in a big backpack ?....


----------



## buzzlulu

The only reason for comparison is that the Mojo is acknowledged to be a giant killer - and it is the only device I currently have here at the moment!

It is understandable that whatever desktop source I choose I would want it to be better than what I currently have. 

The reality is that I will ultimately have a desktop solution and a portable solution. The TA looks like that something to try for desktop. The Mojo will remain for portable duties - or will be replaced with a Hugo2.

What are people feeding the TA with - aside from a portable i.e. WM1A/Z? I am going to assume a computer - anyone using a Mac Mini? I have been away so long from these forums that I don't know how a MacMini rates these days. If I were to go that route the Mini would be a new purchase. Conversely I have a MacBook Air sitting around unused.

I assume USB out directly to the Mini or Air?


----------



## SmileClick

Milking SQ maximum potential from Sony TA-ZH1ES with :-
Transport Onkyo dpx1 connected into Walkman macro USB input.
Amp. McIntosh MA 5200 Bypass their DAC. 
Speakers Dynaudio contour S 1.4
Cable furutech.


----------



## SmileClick

buzzlulu said:


> Still waiting for original poster to reply
> And- does the best value one also give the best performance???




Yes.


----------



## Leviticus

smileclick said:


> Milking SQ maximum potential from Sony TA-ZH1ES with :-
> Transport Onkyo dpx1 connected into Walkman macro USB input.
> Amp. McIntosh Mac 200 Bypass their DAC.
> Speakers Dynaudio contour S 1.4
> Cable furutech.


 
  
 I really think that your power cables look super cool. If they weren't so bloody expensive, I'd have bought Audioquest's TOTL power cable.


----------



## SmileClick

Diy furutech cable fp314ag power cable from Japan with connector cost us$200


----------



## buzzlulu

If you are going into a Mac amp are you also bypassing the TA amp and just using it as a DAC?


----------



## tradyblix

buzzlulu said:


> If you are going into a Mac amp are you also bypassing the TA amp and just using it as a DAC?


 
  
 Yeah. Except there is little point in doing that unless you have a really great amp. Since the TA's amp is quite good. 
  
 But that's why people are bitching about not having a balanced pre out. Because those with super nice amps want to use this in a balanced stack.


----------



## tradyblix

leviticus said:


> I really think that your power cables look super cool. If they weren't so bloody expensive, I'd have bought Audioquest's TOTL power cable.


 
  
 You can improve the TA-ZH1ES with audioquests' NRG-X2 cable and that's not even too expensive. I noticed immediately that it's better with it.


----------



## Whitigir

tradyblix said:


> You can improve the TA-ZH1ES with audioquests' NRG-X2 cable and that's not even too expensive. I noticed immediately that it's better with it.




Yes, powercables brings improvements, and not only that but USB cables as well


----------



## purk

buzzlulu said:


> If you are going into a Mac amp are you also bypassing the TA amp and just using it as a DAC?




Your are much better off getting the Yggy as a dedicated DAC. Again, a DAC out is an after thought of any Digital amp module.


----------



## tradyblix

whitigir said:


> Yes, powercables brings improvements, and not only that but USB cables as well


 

 Not sure if you're serious or taking the mick but it was noticeable to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Has anyone noticed how ancient the headphones in the emoticons are ? I think we need a new set with focal utopia, HD800, Z1R, et al


----------



## SmileClick

Milking SQ maximum potential from Sony TA-ZH1ES with :-
Transport Onkyo dpx1 connected into Walkman macro USB input of Sony TA-ZH1ES and RCA out into 
Amp. McIntosh MA 5200 Bypass their Mac DAC. ( Mac amp:- modifications with German capacitors and crystal quartz oscillator to improve the clock timings and replace some OEM parts) 
Speakers Dynaudio contour S 1.4
Cable 1.5m ( sheilded) and connectors - furutech. 
All cables and connectors are Diy. 

Footnote :- Too simplify on earlier threads - hope it help now.


----------



## WNBC

Cool, I have one of these that came with the LC2.0 (https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-67-036-02-Audioquest-NRG-X3-3FT/dp/B0055ON00I/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1488989068&sr=1-4&keywords=AudioQuest+NRG-).  I'll try it out, but its a 3 prong grounded cable.  Probably not good to use with the TA-ZH1ES which doesn't need a grounded cable.  Is this correct or would the X3 be ok?  Not sure.  
  
 This one seems to be right way to go... https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-NRG-X2-2-Pole-Power-Cable/dp/B00VMR3UUC
  
 Quote:


tradyblix said:


> You can improve the TA-ZH1ES with audioquests' NRG-X2 cable and that's not even too expensive. I noticed immediately that it's better with it.


----------



## Daroid

Although I personally don't know whether I should laugh or cry when people insist on aftermarket cables, I do admit that they look damn good, and it's not my money so why should I care 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Using a grounded 3-conductor cable would be no problem at all. The third wire is just an extension of the many feet of ground wire already running inside your walls, which again are star-grounded near your circuit breakers and from there terminated at an earth rod somewhere near the building.
  
 I'm not sure why Sony opted for floating ground, but I think it is in order to minimize the risk of ground loops. Since the only analog inputs/outputs are single ended, a ground loop can potentially be created if both the connected equipment and the ZH1 were chassis grounded. I probably wouldn't plug/unplug the RCAs when the ZH1 was on, though.


----------



## tradyblix

If you haven't ever used them. Try it out. You might be surprised. You can always return it. And yes, it does look awesome. 
  
 To me it's part of the fun. Honestly the power cable made a difference to me. USB hasn't really done anything the past I don't think. But I upgrade them all.


----------



## tradyblix

wnbc said:


> https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-NRG-X2-2-Pole-Power-Cable/dp/B00VMR3UUC


 
  
 Yeah that is the one that I got. Not crazy priced and I think, a well made cable. This bad boy deserves it IMO. 
  
 The 3 foot one is pretty damn short tho. It reaches my surge protector, but just barely. And it is right next to the damn thing on a table.
  
 Might be better to go with 6 foot, it's not as long as you think. 
  
 In fact, this is the only one AQ makes that has the C17 connector. Which is good as the other ones are more expensive.
  
 I tend to buy the cheaper AQ stuff as I get the solid conductors, geometry and insulation in those and don't go for you know, DBS or silver stuff, although I probably would if I had the cash. I'd probably not go higher than Big Sur for analog, Evergreen for USB and for power and speaker cables whatever is cheapest.


----------



## Sarnia

The sound was cutting out for a fraction of a second intermittently on music streamed from my PC via Qobuz over USB, so bought a pretty cheap WireWorld Chroma USB cable and an Isotek EVO3 Intium power cable, which is their budget one. The cutting out's gone now, so one of them seems to have done the job.
  
 I'm not sure I can hear a difference in the sound quality, but by the time i've swapped them for the original cables that came with my amp it's hard to tell to be honest.


----------



## Leviticus

tradyblix said:


> You can improve the TA-ZH1ES with audioquests' NRG-X2 cable and that's not even too expensive. I noticed immediately that it's better with it.


 
  
 Already have the X4. But I was too lazy to make a comparison. That cable is stiff as screw.


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> Already have the X4. But I was too lazy to make a comparison. That cable is stiff as screw.




You don't know stiffness yet....until you go there 

Silver-gold USB cables and Solid-Copper conductor of heavy weight champions with each individually shielded strand......yeah, it look like a nightmare, but it sounds like heaven ...I am not much into Looks, but rather sound quality





tradyblix said:


> Not sure if you're serious or taking the mick but it was noticeable to me
> 
> Has anyone noticed how ancient the headphones in the emoticons are ? I think we need a new set with focal utopia, HD800, Z1R, et al




No, I am totally serious as in really really serious  . I have and can make all kind of upgrade cables that I want, depends on the gears signatures and the flavor I want to aim for. Therefore, I know a lot about upgraded cables and stuff. I will be making a Pure Silver Powercord for my Other Amp, which...never hurt for me to try it out on the TA either. I will let you know how it turn out lol....


----------



## Whitigir

Just my ranting here:

I think with the technology on the TA amp, the headphones out as a preamp will be excellent. I will confirm it once I have all my stuff  ready. But why do I think so ?

Class D is very sensitive to EMI/RFI, but Sony had mastered it in the S-Master technology, and then now even as a headphones high-end amp. So we can say that EMI/RFI is a non-issue for the TA.

Class D weakness had always been the clicking from all the Mosfets....etc...etc...oscillator mechanism. Now Sony had implanted a hybrid Analog amplification into the circuitry and genuinely eliminated these clicking as well.

Both of the above reasons made me think that the TA must be an excellent preamp out of headphones out


----------



## SmileClick

daroid said:


> Although I personally don't know whether I should laugh or cry when people insist on aftermarket cables, I do admit that they look damn good, and it's not my money so why should I care  . Using a grounded 3-conductor cable would be no problem at all. The third wire is just an extension of the many feet of ground wire already running inside your walls, which again are star-grounded near your circuit breakers and from there terminated at an earth rod somewhere near the building.
> 
> I'm not sure why Sony opted for floating ground, but I think it is in order to minimize the risk of ground loops. Since the only analog inputs/outputs are single ended, a ground loop can potentially be created if both the connected equipment and the ZH1 were chassis grounded. I probably wouldn't plug/unplug the RCAs when the ZH1 was on, though.




You are right if you were to look from electrical engineering standpoints.

But not on the audio final output. If the powercord materials is not properly sheild and/or different types of materials, materials structures or its wires gauge or length of the cable have influence when they process with different types of pcba circuitry design components, there is some sort of atomic changes on pcba circuitry. 
It is difficult to measure atomic changes and its not essential for us as the most simplest way is to hear the end results built with best optimum materials. 

There are many examples, take for 1 example e.g. Cable Annealing. 

What twisting the audio cable during playback, you will realize that it will some disruption on the speakers sound. 
When you heat up the audio cables in the oven to a certain temperature and let it cool naturally. 
The newly processed audio cables when twisted, it does not cause disruption on the speakers sound during playback. 

Belive that you are beginning to step into the audiophile area .
There is a lot of chance to gain more experience when playing with all these stuffs,then you will know the truth of your comment. 

In this forum, you will find alot of nice peoples sharing their interests and perhaps it might be of some interest to you.


----------



## Daroid

I didn't respond to the other post citing my reply. Not that I didn't like you guys or anything, but because I think that discussion of DBT used to be forbidden on Head-fi and properly still is, and I would have touched this subject too much. So I'm now hoping to write a reply which doesn't get me banned. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am an electrical engineer myself (doing embedded software, but for RF hardware products). Everything from L-band to K-band in frequency. These are frequencies where cable lengths and twists actually matter for losses and reflections and can be easily measured.
  
 A power cable is a cable carrying a 50/60 Hz signal at approx 110 to 240V. They are not coaxial cables, i.e. they are (luckily) not designed nor required to have any characteristic impedance with all the trade-offs this has at higher frequencies. It is as simplistic as it ever gets - no inductance/capacitance to harm the 50/60 Hz sine, although it would be impossible to harm such low frequency (near DC) frequencies. The higher the AWG, the less resistance, the less voltage drop.
 Say there was a difference, how about all the wire leading to the socket outlet? What about the dozen miles or wire running to your local electrical substation?
  
 To be honest I would be more worried about the fact that Sony placed the power supply in the same housing as the rest of the amplifier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Look, I don't mind other people spending their time or money on anything they enjoy and which makes a difference to them - whether it is for looks or for sound. One might argue that we only live once. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 It was my fault when expressing my thoughts on it, and am sorry if someone took offense of it. I think it is better the thread gets back to the topic. You're always welcome to send a PM, not that I think there is anything further to discuss - it's a subject with a lot of subjectivity.


----------



## Whitigir

daroid said:


> I didn't respond to the other post citing my reply. Not that I didn't like you guys or anything, but because I think that discussion of DBT used to be forbidden on Head-fi and properly still is, and I would have touched this subject too much. So I'm now hoping to write a reply which doesn't get me banned.
> 
> I am an electrical engineer myself (doing embedded software, but for RF hardware products). Everything from L-band to K-band in frequency. These are frequencies where cable lengths and twists actually matter for losses and reflections and can be easily measured.
> 
> ...




Unfortunately, what the device is seeing is the voltage drop from your cables to the wall socket, and not the miles and thousands miles of the electricity itself. Unless you are talking about the sizes of some single digit conductor per wires, then sure, the cable power is meaningless. Beside that, cables has inducted capacitance as well. Try it, and you will hear it. What us, human, have discovered, is merely the size of an "atom" of knowledge in the universe. Period.

Why such small voltage drop is critical ? Think of diode and transistor 

The best gift that god granted us human, is the ability to observe, study, and discover this universe. Learning from the book is not an observation.....experiences new things and pay attentions is "an observation"

Have fun


----------



## WNBC

Debate is very healthy.  I am not one to do a lot of A/B'ing.  Just not enough time in the day.  I have friends that do take power cords and cables very serious.  They take a lot of notes while listening.  Even that is faulty and subjective.  But, some of these friends are studio engineers and program editors.  Their job is to critically listen.  They have found differences in cables, with a preference for some over others.  Then I have my electrical engineering friends who make fun of these aftermarket cables.  However, they would not dare listen to them.  Issue is dead in the water for them.  I think I have heard a difference, but I have not really done the homework to make bold statements.  For now they look pretty cool and hopefully are not doing any harm.  
  
  
 Quote:


daroid said:


> I didn't respond to the other post citing my reply. Not that I didn't like you guys or anything, but because I think that discussion of DBT used to be forbidden on Head-fi and properly still is, and I would have touched this subject too much. So I'm now hoping to write a reply which doesn't get me banned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Whitigir

Yes, the best ways to tell the differences between cables are to critical listen to it in a short sessions. Notes down the differences. Once you hear it and observed it...there is no going back...lol...that is me


----------



## purk

whitigir said:


> Yes, the best ways to tell the differences between cables are to critical listen to it in a short sessions. Notes down the differences. Once you hear it and observed it...there is no going back...lol...that is me


 
 To start, you will have to be open minded that there could be a difference.  A more transparent system will also make those improvements more audible.


----------



## Hooster

whitigir said:


> Unfortunately, what the device is seeing is the voltage drop from your cables to the wall socket,


 
  
 Seriously? Audiophile cables have measurably less voltage drop? Even if this voltage drop was real, what difference would it make?
  
 Compared to variations in the power supplied to your house this "voltage drop" is negligible. 
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power_quality
  
 The topic of power cables may be worth discussing, but if we do, then let's keep it real and sensible.


----------



## Hooster

smileclick said:


> Sony TA ZH1ES have many custom IC and Looking at the complexity of their design... It is worth more than the current market prices.


 
  
 So, how much is it worth then?


----------



## Whitigir

hooster said:


> Seriously? Audiophile cables have measurably less voltage drop? Even if this voltage drop was real, what difference would it make?
> 
> Compared to variations in the power supplied to your house this "voltage drop" is negligible.
> 
> ...




Again, we are talking about the "additional voltage drops". It isn't real enough to you ? What does a resistor in series do ?


----------



## Hooster

whitigir said:


> Again, we are talking about the "additional voltage drops". It isn't real enough to you ? What does a resistor in series do ?


 
  
 Ok, keeping it real, how much is this additional voltage drop, in absolute terms and as a percentage of the normal variation in voltage supplied to your house?


----------



## Whitigir

hooster said:


> Ok, keeping it real, how much is this additional voltage drop, in absolute terms and as a percentage of the normal variation in voltage supplied to your house?




The matter is not howmuch, but the matter is "the additional". Hence you are hearing and observing Very fine and subtles changes, and not 30% improvements....no... the problem is that these variations do affect sound performances. End of story. Whether you go for it, spend money on it, or you don't....that is your decision

Again, ask those who have TA and upgraded powercables, they will tell you how it effect the sounds. Further debates into science is supposed to be in science forum


----------



## Hooster

whitigir said:


> The matter is not howmuch, but the matter is "the additional". Hence you are hearing and observing Very fine and subtles changes, and not 30% improvements....no... the problem is that these variations do affect sound performances. End of story. Whether you go for it, spend money on it, or you don't....that is your decision
> 
> Again, ask those who have TA and upgraded powercables, they will tell you how it effect the sounds. Further debates into science is supposed to be in science forum


 
  
 I wasn't asking about this to be a pain. I just think you are barking up the wrong tree. I suspect that the differences people perceive between power cords have a lot more to do with the cord's ability to filter and isolate noise and interference than with any negligible voltage drop.


----------



## Whitigir

hooster said:


> I wasn't asking about this to be a pain. I just think you are barking up the wrong tree. I suspect that the differences people perceive between power cords have a lot more to do with the cord's ability to filter and isolate noise and interference than with any negligible voltage drop.




That too, as everything will affect the sound performances


----------



## Daroid

whitigir said:


> Learning from the book is not an observation.....experiences new things and pay attentions is "an observation"


 
  
 I agree with this, but the problem with some audiophiles is that they never take it to the next step: *Verification of their observations by objective measurements methods or at least removal of bias by blind-tests*. That's what personally would help me in selecting the right equipment in a jungle of products that all look good (not just talking cables).
  
 I did not quote the former of your post, since I think the discussion leads to no where, as Hooster already tried to explain it.


----------



## TSAVJason

whitigir said:


> The matter is not howmuch, but the matter is "the additional". Hence you are hearing and observing Very fine and subtles changes, and not 30% improvements....no... the problem is that these variations do affect sound performances. End of story. Whether you go for it, spend money on it, or you don't....that is your decision
> 
> Again, ask those who have TA and upgraded powercables, they will tell you how it effect the sounds. Further debates into science is supposed to be in science forum




The upgraded AC power cable doesn't have to super high priced. It simply needs to be more copper than the 80 cent cable it comes with. I'd suggest the Isoteck Green EVO. It's about $100 and will change for the better the performance of the ES amplifier dramatically. I know you'll ask what will improve so here is your answer. Dynamics and consistency in output.


----------



## Whitigir

tsavjason said:


> The upgraded AC power cable doesn't have to super high priced. It simply needs to be more copper than the 80 cent cable it comes with. I'd suggest the Isoteck Green EVO. It's about $100 and will change for the better the performance of the ES amplifier dramatically. I know you'll ask what will improve so here is your answer. Dynamics and consistency in output.




You are totally correct Jason, as I have stated this for many posts already . Even audio quest Powercord will do as well


----------



## TSAVJason

whitigir said:


> You are totally correct Jason, as I have stated this for many posts already . Even audio quest Powercord will do as well


 Yeah well the problem is we've both said it and the haters keep hating that we say it. Hahahaha


----------



## buzzlulu

tsavjason said:


> It simply needs to be more copper than the 80 cent cable it comes with.


 
  
 Exactly.  More copper = more juice
 That is what it really is all about
  
 In my two channel world many of us have our electricians do a direct home run of heavy cable directly from the circuit panel where the electricity enters the house to a pair of dedicated hospital grade outlets (or the like) located in the listening room.
 Direct flow of juice - and other things in the house (refrigerators, electronics with switched mode PS's) are not polluting that supply run


----------



## Whitigir

Polluting supply from your appliances are unavoidable ...unless you run a Balanced supply unit for your main house. It cost around $50k for just the box....without installations.

Basically while it transform and split the electric, it will also filter the noises because the fluctuations is minimized

But hey, it is still better than buying a direct line from your utility company


----------



## TSAVJason

whitigir said:


> Polluting supply from your appliances are unavoidable ...unless you run a Balanced supply unit for your main house. It cost around $50k for just the box....without installations.
> 
> Basically while it transform and split the electric, it will also filter the noises because the fluctuations is minimized
> 
> But hey, it is still better than buying a direct line from your utility company


 Well a dedicated circuit is always perferred and wherever possible power conditioning is also very advantageous.


----------



## Whitigir

Here, is the devices I am talking about. Stereophile loves it for their hundred of thousands dollar setup 

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/equitech/1.html



tsavjason said:


> Well a dedicated circuit is always perferred and wherever possible power conditioning is also very advantageous.




Yes, the only main thing about power conditioner is that it actually may negatively affect your performances


----------



## buzzlulu

whitigir said:


> Yes, the only main thing about power conditioner is that it actually may negatively affect your performances


 
  
 Agreed - In Naim world any power conditioning is a NO NO.  The old NANA (Naim Audio US Importer) developed a reasonably priced power strip with Wiremold where they instructed them to remove EVERYTHING - no surge protectors etc. NOTHING
  
 Check out what my friend and some former Naim guys are doing now - reasonably priced power strip and power cables.  Actually just very successfully reviewed in Stereophile
  
 https://www.avoptions.com


----------



## TSAVJason

buzzlulu said:


> Agreed - In Naim world any power conditioning is a NO NO.  The old NANA (Naim Audio US Importer) developed a reasonably priced power strip with Wiremold where they instructed them to remove EVERYTHING - no surge protectors etc. NOTHING
> 
> Check out what my friend and some former Naim guys are doing now - reasonably priced power strip and power cables.  Actually just very successfully reviewed in Stereophile
> 
> https://www.avoptions.com


 At Naim constricted power conditioning is a no no. They actually agree with proper conditioning that doesn't choke the current


----------



## TSAVJason

whitigir said:


> Here, is the devices I am talking about. Stereophile loves it for their hundred of thousands dollar setup
> 
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/equitech/1.html
> Yes, the only main thing about power conditioner is that it actually may negatively affect your performances


No doubt! Many power conditioners are detrimental to any audio/video system but not all manufacturers make cheesy conditioners


----------



## Daroid

tsavjason said:


> Yeah well the problem is we've both said it and the haters keep hating that we say it. Hahahaha


 
  
 I don't know Head-fi's policy of debating with sponsors, but it's probably not wise to start an argument, so I didn't and I don't want to. So I just wanted to say that your posts (or any other posts) don't make me hate you or anyone in the least.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 My take on this remains written in bold in the post above your previous post. But no matter what, I think $100 is much more reasonable no matter what this effect the cable has compared to what you can find out there.
  
 OT: My order that I place for the ZH1 has unfortunately been put for "awaiting stock". Won't have it before about the 21st of this month. Oh well, waiting sucks!


----------



## buzzlulu

daroid said:


> But no matter what, I think $100 is much more reasonable no matter what this effect the cable has compared to what you can find out there.


 
  
 Reasonable prices are in the eye of the beholder.  Someone's Z1R at $2300 is considered unreasonable compared to a Sennheiser 650 at $400
  
 Someone who spends $2300 on the Z1R considers someone who buys the Utopia at $4000 unreasonable - yet the Sennheiser guy thinks the Z1R guy is nuts
  
 When it comes to cables there is a massive range of prices and one must be diligent to differentiate real performance products from SnakeOil.  In terms of measurability there are certain aspects of cable design which are measurable - others are not and that is where blind tests come in.
 I come from a two channel world so I can tell you prices are ALL over the board.  I can also tell you that some of the top cables TRULY do what it says on the tin.  You should check out a UK company called Chord Cables - they are in the UK.  They have a range of interconnects and speaker cables which can range from 500gbp to 5000gbp (for a 1 meter interconnect).  They are an illustrious company in business for many years and are continually pushing the envelope.  I have owned and demoed most of their products - and have demoed extensively with other two channel friends.  It is VERY easy to hear the differences and improvements made by their cables - in blind tests with a number of people sitting in.
  
 The TRUE cable companies are the ones who consistently prove, through demo, that their products are what they claim them to be.
 It is then up to the end consumer to decide what price point he is comfortable with.


----------



## purk

buzzlulu said:


> Reasonable prices are in the eye of the beholder.  Someone's Z1R at $2300 is considered unreasonable compared to a Sennheiser 650 at $400
> 
> Someone who spends $2300 on the Z1R considers someone who buys the Utopia at $4000 unreasonable - yet the Sennheiser guy thinks the Z1R guy is nuts


 
 Well, the HD650 is one of those headphones that scale like nothing else when driven out of a really good balanced amp.  So, all of us are kindda crazy for not owning one...myself included.


----------



## buzzlulu

purk said:


> Well, the HD650 is one of those headphones that scale like nothing else when driven out of a really good balanced amp.  So, all of us are kindda crazy for not owning one...myself included.


 

 Owned one back when I was active on here in 2003/2004.  The Sennheiser veil did me in.  Replaced them with a Grado RS1.
 Back in the day it was only Sennheiser and Grado - and mostly DIY amps built by other HeadFi members.
  
 Still have my LaRocco PPA with Diamond Buffers sitting in the closet - is it worth anything?  Maybe I will put it up at auction at Sotheby's or Christie's - ha ha


----------



## purk

buzzlulu said:


> Owned one back when I was active on here in 2003/2004.  The Sennheiser veil did me in.  Replaced them with a Grado RS1.
> Back in the day it was only Sennheiser and Grado - and mostly DIY amps built by other HeadFi members.
> 
> Still have my LaRocco PPA with Diamond Buffers sitting in the closet - is it worth anything?  Maybe I will put it up at auction at Sotheby's or Christie's - ha ha


 
 The HD-650 needs a silver upgraded cable.  Yes, I have the LaRocco PPA as well.  It is still very competitive with any solidstate amp under $600-700 dollars.  The art of amp design hasn't progressed that much despite what amplifier mfgs are claiming.


----------



## buzzlulu

I seem to recall - back in the day - having a Zu Möbius (?) on it. Still did not like it. 

I have a Kimber Axios coming for the Utopia - hopefully it will be nice (!)


PS to anyone considering - EXCELLENT service from Jason at SourceAV. A true pleasure doing business with him.

PSS I will continue following this thread however for now I have pulled the trigger on a Hugo2 to use with the Utopia
It will tide me over until I get bit by the Stax bug. I am starting to regret returning to this place after such a long absence. My 2 channel system will see less use - and my wallet will start to suffer


----------



## Mizukage

buzzlulu said:


> Reasonable prices are in the eye of the beholder.  Someone's Z1R at $2300 is considered unreasonable compared to a Sennheiser 650 at $400
> 
> Someone who spends $2300 on the Z1R considers someone who buys the Utopia at $4000 unreasonable - yet the Sennheiser guy thinks the Z1R guy is nuts
> 
> ...


 
 I found Chord cables when I bought my Rega Brio R a few years back.  They truly do make great cables.


----------



## buzzlulu

mizukage said:


> I found Chord cables when I bought my Rega Brio R a few years back.  They truly do make great cables.




If it was a few years back you should see what they are doing now - utterly jaw dropping. 

Another bonus and very pro customer service taken right from the playbook at Linn- on certain cables when they come out with improvements you can send your original cable back to them for updating - all at a reduced cost.


----------



## Mizukage

buzzlulu said:


> If it was a few years back you should see what they are doing now - utterly jaw dropping.
> 
> Another bonus and very pro customer service taken right from the playbook at Linn- on certain cables when they come out with improvements you can send your original cable back to them for updating - all at a reduced cost.


 
 Nice!,  I'm in need of a new Amp/Dac combo (Seperates, or  combined), since I moved and my setup no longer works.. So I'll definitely check them out when I've decided what I'm getting.


----------



## Whitigir

Silver powercord ? Why in the hell not. Pictures for references. Cables is completely shielded and sleeved


----------



## tradyblix

buzzlulu said:


> PSS I will continue following this thread however for now I have pulled the trigger on a Hugo2 to use with the Utopia
> It will tide me over until I get bit by the Stax bug. I am starting to regret returning to this place after such a long absence. My 2 channel system will see less use - and my wallet will start to suffer


 

 Enjoy your Hugo2 I am sure that it will be great.


----------



## Whitigir

buzzlulu said:


> I seem to recall - back in the day - having a Zu Möbius (?) on it. Still did not like it.
> 
> I have a Kimber Axios coming for the Utopia - hopefully it will be nice (!)
> 
> ...




Talking about Stax ? I am deep into working on the amp .....I thought Utopia and TA and 1Z would end this game for me....now my 009 arrive next week....hopefully my Carbon will be as good as it supposed to be

Sigh.....expensive freaking hobby

I probably need a gun point from my wife to stop this madness


----------



## buzzlulu

whitigir said:


> Talking about Stax ? I am deep into working on the amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Prey tell more about the 009!
  
 I attended CanJam NY and had a brief 15 minute listen to the 009 at the Headamp booth.  Let me simply say that one month on I still cannot get it out of my mind - what an impression a brief 15 minutes made on me.
  
 Please tell more  - what led you to it and how are you planning to use it
  
 PS  wrong thread however I will ask anyway.  If one wanted and alternative to Solid State with the Utopia (Hugo2 on preorder) how are the WU entry line products - WA8 and WA7?  The WA8 requires you not only to like their amplification but also the flavor of the incorporated DAC they use


----------



## buzzlulu

tradyblix said:


> Enjoy your Hugo2 I am sure that it will be great.


 

 Thank you - I am expecting big things.
 I like the Mojo - and many of my friends in two channel on the Naim forum have ditched $10k Naim digital front ends for the original Hugo


----------



## tradyblix

Tidal seems to have fixed their issues talking to the TA-ZH1ES in the latest update. It's now behaving properly for me again. (on the mac client)
  
 Awesome... back to lossless again.
  
 *Edit*. That lasted literally a day. The very next update they broke it again. I'm giving up on Tidal for now. 
  
 I have a work-around - if I open a browser and start an audio stream from the browser, then mute - say a youtube video.... I can play from Tidal no issues.
  
 But ... really this kind of problems shouldn't be going on. Couple that with the poor search, playlist and discovery options on tidal, as well as spotify/itunes has more music available and I think it's game over. I'll take mqa > lossless > aac > ogg any day tho


----------



## SmileClick

My friend heard my setup and he like the sound signature and brought 1 set at Camjam Singapore 2017. Both of us got a good discount given by sony during the Camjam Singapore. On top of Bundle discounts for both TA ZH1ES and Z1 headphone, I also got balance Kimber cable thrown in - free of charge.


----------



## SmileClick

Currently, TA ZH1ES RCA out carrying both signal and ground out as the chassis is not grounded into earth. 

Existing chassis power connector is a 2 pin connector instead of 3 pins connector. 

We tested it by grounding the TA-ZH1ES chassis into Mac amp which those chassis is grounded into earth pins, it produces a clean sound. 

Suggest to change the existing 2 pins power Connector to 3 pins power connector after the warranty is over. 

Have spoken to Sony designer team in Camjam Singapore, and they are looking into this issues.


----------



## WNBC

I've never been to one of these meets. Pretty cool that discounts are offered by vendors and manufacturers. 



smileclick said:


> My friend heard my setup and he like the sound signature and brought 1 set at Camjam Singapore 2017. Both of us got a good discount given by sony during the Camjam Singapore. On top of Bundle discounts for both TA ZH1ES and Z1 headphone, I also got balance Kimber cable thrown in - free of charge.


----------



## Sarnia

Amazon UK have the TA-ZH1ES for £1,199 right now. Also the NW-WM1A for £680.54 and the MDR-Z1R for £1,191.
  
 If buying only buy from Amazon UK itself, the other low prices are a scam.


----------



## beowulf

sarnia said:


> Amazon UK have the TA-ZH1ES for £1,199 right now. Also the NW-WM1A for £680.54 and the MDR-Z1R for £1,191.
> 
> If buying only buy from Amazon UK itself, the other low prices are a scam.




1300eur for a z1r. Outstanding value. Thats what a new Hd800 costs. Too bad its locked to uk deliveries or I'd might get a second z1r.


----------



## Sarnia

beowulf said:


> 1300eur for a z1r. Outstanding value. Thats what a new Hd800 costs. Too bad its locked to uk deliveries or I'd might get a second z1r.


 
 I've just bought a pair for £992.50. The TA at £1,199 is an amazing price too. By far the lowest i've seen.


----------



## echineko

sarnia said:


> I've just bought a pair for £992.50. The TA at £1,199 is an amazing price too. By far the lowest i've seen.


 
 If only they still shipped outside of the UK. Oh well...


----------



## Sarnia

beowulf said:


> 1300eur for a z1r. Outstanding value. Thats what a new Hd800 costs. Too bad its locked to uk deliveries or I'd might get a second z1r.


 
 What about the Amazon Warehouse ones, do they ship outside UK? No warranty, but they are a good price.
  
 Same goes for the TA-ZH1ES amp.


----------



## TSAVJason

sarnia said:


> What about the Amazon Warehouse ones, do they ship outside UK? No warranty, but they are a good price.
> 
> Same goes for the TA-ZH1ES amp.


 Why would anyone want an ES amplifier using 220v when our power here in the US is 110v. Using converters adds noise


----------



## Sarnia

I said outside the UK, not to the US. There are many other countries using 220v.


----------



## TSAVJason

sarnia said:


> I said outside the UK, not to the US. There are many other countries using 220v.


 

How about Japan? It's 100v or Taiwan is 110v. I'm not sure if you're aware but the US is outside the US. I just checked the exchange rate and cost of money. You are obviously not suspicious of deals under dealer cost? I guess not.


----------



## Sarnia

tsavjason said:


> How about Japan? It's 100v or Taiwan is 110v. I'm not sure if you're aware but the US is outside the US. I just checked the exchange rate and cost of money. You are obviously not suspicious of deals under dealer cost? I guess not.


Jason, not sure what you are getting at here. What do you mean the US is outside the US? That's got me stumped. 

The whole of Europe is 220v for starters. I was talking to to Beowulf who is from Netherlands. 

No I'm not suspicious of Deals when Amazon UK themselves are the seller and I understand exactly why the price has dropped.


----------



## Sarnia

http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plug-voltage-by-country/Not wanting to labour the point, so enough said I hope.


----------



## TSAVJason

sarnia said:


> Jason, not sure what you are getting at here. What do you mean the US is outside the US? That's got me stumped.
> 
> The whole of Europe is 220v for starters. I was talking to to Beowulf who is from Netherlands.
> 
> No I'm not suspicious of Deals when Amazon UK themselves are the seller and I understand exactly why the price has dropped.


 

Not what I said. I said the US is outside the U.K. 

I'm suspicious of any deal below the wholesale price. Even more suspicious when coming from Amazon UK. I'm also saying that using a converter either sucks if it's just a transformer or sucks on expense of it's a real proper converter while still being noisy


----------



## beowulf

sarnia said:


> I've just bought a pair for £992.50. The TA at £1,199 is an amazing price too. By far the lowest i've seen.


 
  
 Sony pricing at amazon.uk is weird. UK is their EU HQ, but still, the difference is huge. If you compare to any neighbouring country (germany, frace, italy, etc) the differece is ridiculous when those drops occur. Next time I want a Sony product at launch I'm definitely going to keep an eye on the UK.


----------



## Sarnia

tsavjason said:


> Not what I said. I said the US is outside the U.K.
> 
> I'm suspicious of any deal below the wholesale price. Even more suspicious when coming from Amazon UK. I'm also saying that using a converted either sucks if it's just a transformer or sucks on expense of it's a real proper converter while still being noisy


Jason, please re-read your earlier post. You said US is outside US. Obviously an error. 

Insinuating that I don't realise the US is outside the UK is pretty insulting. I'll be in the US again next week for the third time in a year... I'll try and remember it's not British. 

I've explained before why Amazon's prices drop. There is a third-party scam seller who posts thousands of bogus very low prices with many seller accounts. Amazon's pricing algorithm drops to be in the same ballpark. No human intervention. 

It's been happening for a year or so and they don't seem to be able to do anything about it. 

The sale is from Amazon with their full warranty, if applicable, which it is for me.


----------



## WNBC

Yeah, I think we quickly respond and sometimes words get lost.
  
 I think he was saying there are US-type voltages outside the US.  We are pretty sure the Brits know where we dumped your tea   Sorry, I'm originally from New England.  Love the Brits in reality.
  
  
 Quote:


sarnia said:


> Jason, please re-read your earlier post. You said US is outside US. Obviously an error.
> 
> Insinuating that I don't realise the US is outside the UK is pretty insulting. I'll be in the US again next week for the third time in a year... I'll try and remember it's not British.


----------



## Daroid

sarnia said:


> The sale is from Amazon with their full warranty, if applicable, which it is for me.


 
  
 Has the offer disappeared? All I see are warehouse deals at that price. I was considering this at some point in time, but honestly when they state that "Please note that used products are not covered by the original manufacturer's warranty." and that they in another paragraph mention they don't really want to hear about any issue outside a 30-day window, then I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Even though Amazon is breaking the law by not offering at least 6 months of warranty, but their lawyers are probably better than mine .


----------



## koroshiya8

hi folks, i've just read up to page 26 but i cant help but have to ask some questions LOL..
 I've gotten the Z1R and TA just less than 24 hours ago, yet to set up anything. The TA arrived very late last night and had not been unboxed yet. But simply by just playing the Z1R using the DP-X1 (vol at 115 or so), the sound was unbelievable.
  
 My use case is mainly my desktop and will be using the USB. I have a DP-X1 as well.
  
 1. In terms of connection will it be better to use my PC Usb or should i try to connect using the DP-X1 (not sure via what connection yet).
  
 2. Would getting a Isotek Initium Power supply improve even further the sound quality ?
  
 3. I have a Denon CD player with both Coaxial and RCA. having read the 2 pin power connector matter, should i just use Coaxial to be 'safe' ?
  
 TIA !!


----------



## nanaholic

koroshiya8 said:


> hi folks, i've just read up to page 26 but i cant help but have to ask some questions LOL..
> I've gotten the Z1R and TA just less than 24 hours ago, yet to set up anything. The TA arrived very late last night and had not been unboxed yet. But simply by just playing the Z1R using the DP-X1 (vol at 115 or so), the sound was unbelievable.
> 
> My use case is mainly my desktop and will be using the USB. I have a DP-X1 as well.
> ...


 
  
 1. If you use your PC and with the appropriate software you can play up to native 11.2MHz DSD files and 382kHz PCM wav, whereas DP-X1 only supports output of 5.6MHz DSD and 192kHz PCM maximum via its USB output. If you don't have any files in those formats, the difference probably won't matter much and it would just be a personal preference of which is more convenient. 
  
 2. No comment

 3. Technically speaking, if you want to use a "pure digital" conversion chain where all amplification and decoding is done inside the TA amp then use optical connection. If you already like the DAC in your Denon CD player and just want to use the TA as a pure amp, use RCA input. Note if you use the TA as an analogue amp it will convert the analogue input signal into DSD digital, amplify, then convert back to analogue. Some people considers all these extra conversion steps degrading to the music, but if you like the sound then who's to question your choice? Heck why not try it first and see which connection you like better?


----------



## koroshiya8

nanaholic said:


> 1. If you use your PC and with the appropriate software you can play up to native 11.2MHz DSD files and 382kHz PCM wav, whereas DP-X1 only supports output of 5.6MHz DSD and 192kHz PCM maximum via its USB output. If you don't have any files in those formats, the difference probably won't matter much and it would just be a personal preference of which is more convenient.
> 
> 2. No comment
> 
> 3. Technically speaking, if you want to use a "pure digital" conversion chain where all amplification and decoding is done inside the TA amp then use optical connection. If you already like the DAC in your Denon CD player and just want to use the TA as a pure amp, use RCA input. Note if you use the TA as an analogue amp it will convert the analogue input signal into DSD digital, amplify, then convert back to analogue. Some people considers all these extra conversion steps degrading to the music, but if you like the sound then who's to question your choice? Heck why not try it first and see which connection you like better?


 
 Thanks for the reply..
  
 cant wait to try them tonight for myself!
  
 Btw to share my purchase i got them for equivalent of $3.2k USD for both the Z1R and TA. Not sure if it's considered a decent price as it's supposed to be 'discounted'.


----------



## Sarnia

daroid said:


> Has the offer disappeared? All I see are warehouse deals at that price. I was considering this at some point in time, but honestly when they state that "Please note that used products are not covered by the original manufacturer's warranty."
> and that they in another paragraph mention they don't really want to hear about any issue outside a 30-day window, then I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Even though Amazon is breaking the law by not offering at least 6 months of warranty, but their lawyers are probably better than mine .


Yes it's gone for the brand new ones I'm afraid. Amazon Warehouse don't need to offer a warranty as they sell as used, which is all above board. 

In reality Amazon Warehouse items often are brand new, with minor damage to the packaging that's happened in their warehouse or during shipping. I usually buy items with a low likelihood of failure from them. 

Saying that I've just bought a Sony RX10m3 from them as the price was so good. I'll take the risk on warranty. It's only 1 year anyway. In all my years of buying way too much stuff I've only ever needed to call on a warranty once, for a failed solid state drive.


----------



## nanaholic

koroshiya8 said:


> Thanks for the reply..
> 
> cant wait to try them tonight for myself!
> 
> Btw to share my purchase i got them for equivalent of $3.2k USD for both the Z1R and TA. Not sure if it's considered a decent price as it's supposed to be 'discounted'.


 
  
 Sounds close to the recommended price - not much cheaper but you certainly didn't get ripped off I would say.
  
 I just got my Z1R yesterday, eventually will get the TA amp, hopefully.


----------



## soundify

smileclick said:


> Sony TA ZH1ES have many custom IC and Looking at the complexity of their design... It is worth more than the current market prices.




The proof is in how it sounds. To me, the hugo 1 is better than the TA amp. More resolution, clarity and life like sound. TA is still good though and more value in terms of physical parts.


----------



## koroshiya8

Finally unboxed the TA and starting out with Melodramma by Andrea Bocelli and a quick comparison with the Schiit Stack.
  
 The Schiit sounded much thinner as compared to the TA with DSD and DSEE HX on (and same without)... The experience can be hugely felt... and i'm still at Unbalanced.
 Gain currently still at default Low -28DB
  
  
 Quick qns: For the TA + Z1R setup. You guys go for Low Gain high volume or High Gain Low Volume ?


----------



## WNBC

Low gain so far for Z1R and HD800.  Low gain is a cleaner sound, less noise, so unless I really need the power, I'll stick to low gain.  I tried the Z1R stock balanced cable.  Really too short for me to use on a  regular basis with the TA-Z1HES, but I tried it anyway.  Balanced was not a significant improvement over unbalanced.  First time I used the cable so not sure if there is some burn-in required with it.      
  
  
  
 Quote:


koroshiya8 said:


> Finally unboxed the TA and starting out with Melodramma by Andrea Bocelli and a quick comparison with the Schiit Stack.
> 
> The Schiit sounded much thinner as compared to the TA with DSD and DSEE HX on (and same without)... The experience can be hugely felt... and i'm still at Unbalanced.
> Gain currently still at default Low -28DB
> ...


----------



## Whitigir

smileclick said:


> Currently, TA ZH1ES RCA out carrying both signal and ground out as the chassis is not grounded into earth.
> 
> Existing chassis power connector is a 2 pin connector instead of 3 pins connector.
> 
> ...




Nice job! It should have been done a while ago . But it doesn't mean it is not working correctly. It only carry the floating ground or so....to speak. However, the body is anodized, so less risk of "electrocution"! I am kidding, there are safety fuse inside. If anything funny happen, you are safe. The TA was designed for floating ground, and having a 3rd lead on upgraded socket doesn't hurt either, but that lead can be left alone without wire

Warranty ? It will take about 5 years. But as long as you don't do anything funny. The warranty can not be declined just due to changing the socket. Unless they can prove it that the socket is the cause of failures (if and when it happened). But according to my knowledges. There is no such thing as a socket causing failure....unless....you don't know what you are doing 

Furutech, Pure copper and goldplated


----------



## Leviticus

Could dust ever be a problem for the TA? The "lid" doesn't cover the entire surface area, and some components are exposed to dust and whatnot.


----------



## Whitigir

leviticus said:


> Could dust ever be a problem for the TA? The "lid" doesn't cover the entire surface area, and some components are exposed to dust and whatnot.




Unless you are talking about Metal debris in dust form....then no


----------



## koroshiya8

A quick difference (based on unbal) between using the Z1R on 
 1. Schiit Stack (Magni 2/Modi 2 both Uber version)  -> Low Gain 27% on knob
 2. TA-ZH1ES  -> Low Gain -27db
  
  
  
 Displaimer:
 It is just for fun as it's not really an apple to apple comparison due to the astronomical price differences. 
 Track played:
  
 a. Hotel California (.dsf)
 b. 下一站 Sampling Title  火車 -> a Mandarin MP3

  
  
 The Schiit is awesome for the price and form factor, but when pit against the Monster TA, the 'flaws' if you may is that the Schiit is powerful but also brighter and generates fatigue more easily.
  
 The TA is warm in the most positive manner possible; it's been  highlighted a thousand times in the thread but you really need to listen to believe how excellent it really is. It is powerful as the Schiit but in a much more controlled manner. The key difference though is that if the stack is 1D, then the TA is 3D, that imaging is 'horrendously' beautiful. The music is never dull and keeps your attention as it brings out how the sound is to be listened in terms of the highs, mids and lows..
  
 The song 下一站  is by a very popular Taiwanese 2 men band, the song starts out with the train moving by the left and for a moment it feels the train physically went pass. All the instruments , drums and bass are so accurate and well separated, clear and fast it was really an enjoyment by itself. i've listened to this track for 3 times LOL, for a mp3 that is upscaled by the DSD remastering feature.


----------



## Imusicman

whitigir said:


> Nice job! It should have been done a while ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 How difficult was this to do? Was it expensive? I was interested in this unit but after recently upgrading my power cord at great expense (which is great btw) the two pin arrangement would not work for me anymore. To be honest until I viewed this thread I didn't even realise Sony had used this kind of 2 pin set up.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

whitigir said:


> Nice job! It should have been done a while ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can you post pics under the hood on the mod?


----------



## Hooster

smileclick said:


> Currently, TA ZH1ES RCA out carrying both signal and ground out as the chassis is not grounded into earth.
> 
> Existing chassis power connector is a 2 pin connector instead of 3 pins connector.
> 
> We tested it by grounding the TA-ZH1ES chassis into Mac amp which those chassis is grounded into earth pins, it produces a clean sound.


 
  
 I would go for it, immediately. Grounding the chassis to give a clean sound is a no brainer. Also safer.


----------



## Whitigir

imusicman said:


> How difficult was this to do? Was it expensive? I was interested in this unit but after recently upgrading my power cord at great expense (which is great btw) the two pin arrangement would not work for me anymore. To be honest until I viewed this thread I didn't even realise Sony had used this kind of 2 pin set up.




Well, it is not that difficult. Just unscrew the screws, then you will find the wires behind it. The stock socket is soldered on with color code for polarity. You can access the "removable plugs" by a tweezers on it clamp. Very easily removed.

The hardest thing would be to find the connectors, and the right size socket to fit it in. I blindly bought Furutech socket because I love Furutech. But then I had to modify it by cutting and sanding it down to fit.



hifiguy528 said:


> Can you post pics under the hood on the mod?




I did not open the whole chassis to do this, so I couldn't post under the hood pic 



hooster said:


> I would go for it, immediately. Grounding the chassis to give a clean sound is a no brainer. Also safer.




I did not ground my chassis to the third lead. However, I could do so by soldering the 3rd to a washer then screw it to the side screw easily  . I modified this for a cleaner and better wires as I upgraded power cables. The socket is connected to the inside by silver wires




Stock wires is connected to a JST connectors (pic above). It is cramped on terminal, you can solder for better joint and I did that


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I don't get the mod of the ground is not connected? 
  


hooster said:


> I would go for it, immediately. Grounding the chassis to give a clean sound is a no brainer. Also safer.


 
  
 Most homes in the U.S. have ground-loop issues. A two-proung AC cord eliminates any buzzing noises if the user's home has wiring issues.


----------



## Sarnia

imusicman said:


> How difficult was this to do? Was it expensive? I was interested in this unit but after recently upgrading my power cord at great expense (which is great btw) the two pin arrangement would not work for me anymore. To be honest until I viewed this thread I didn't even realise Sony had used this kind of 2 pin set up.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you can still use a 3 pin power chord. One of the holes will just be empty.


----------



## Whitigir

hifiguy528 said:


> I don't get the mod of the ground is not connected?
> 
> 
> Most homes in the U.S. have ground-loop issues. A two-proung AC cord eliminates any buzzing noises if the user's home has wiring issues.




The mod does not have the ground connected. I did this because I want better transmission of electricity. Like I mentioned, the socket I used is pure solid copper with gold plated conductors. The wires are pure solid silver. Stock socket has steel conductors and tinned copper wire

I did not ground it for this exact reason: ground loop issues. Not all things connected to chassis ground is considered lower noise floor, sometimes groundloop will bring the worse of it. It depends on the circuitry and it design. The same thing for power cord

The only bad thing about floating ground is risk of electric shock due to live grounds if "short" happen. But according to my knowledge, nothing bad should ever happened from the TA design



sarnia said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you can still use a 3 pin power chord. One of the holes will just be empty.




You are correct, you can use 3 prongs connectors just fine.


----------



## Daroid

hifiguy528 said:


> I don't get the mod of the ground is not connected?


 
  
 The signal ground is (I assume) connected to the chassis at one single point, however, it is likely connected DIRECTLY to the chassis without any kind of in series capacitor and resistor, because Sony assumes that the chassis, when not earthed, is just an extended grounding/shield. So by suddenly earthing the chassis, you may risk frying the amplifier if another earthed component on the same power line fails - again IF signal ground is directly coupled to chassis ground.
  
 Not a risk I'm ever going to take


----------



## Whitigir

That is exactly the way it was designed. To give the ground to earth all of a sudden is asking for trouble. Beside, TA is a beautiful piece of performances. My mod was aimed toward more improvements and not taking risks to reduce performances


----------



## Imusicman

sarnia said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you can still use a 3 pin power chord. One of the holes will just be empty.



No you are understanding me correctly. I'm not very technically minded and didn't realise I would still be able to use it safely. Thank you for clarifying it for me.


----------



## Imusicman

Are there different models with different power connections depending on where you are in the world?

Just curious as to why Sony choose the two pin configuration? It also looks like I'm not the only one based on recent threads.

Are 3 pins better than 2 for safety and sound quality? 

Otherwise why change/upgrade and if it does improve the performance why did someone like Sony miss this after what must have been years of development?


----------



## nanaholic

imusicman said:


> Are there different models with different power connections depending on where you are in the world?
> 
> Just curious as to why Sony choose the two pin configuration? It also looks like I'm not the only one based on recent threads.
> 
> ...


 
  
 There's at least 2 SKUs out there - one that is 110V (2 pin) and another that is 230V (3 pin)
  
 Japan is the same as the US where they use 2 pins for their electrical outlets, so Japanese appliances rarely have a ground pin, so there's that.

 I think this is the place where Sony should have used a transformer to simplify the SKUs, I really don't know why they want to manage two SKUs for a home appliance with different input voltages.


----------



## Sarnia

nanaholic said:


> There's at least 2 SKUs out there - one that is 110V (2 pin) and another that is 230V (3 pin)
> 
> Japan is the same as the US where they use 2 pins for their electrical outlets, so Japanese appliances rarely have a ground pin, so there's that.
> 
> ...


The 230v version is 2 pin too.


----------



## nanaholic

sarnia said:


> The 230v version is 2 pin too.


 
  
 Really? I think the Hong Kong 230V is 3 pin, could be mistaken, I should go check again.


----------



## Imusicman

Anyone bought this unit in the U.K. who can confirm if its 2 or 3 pin thanks


----------



## Leviticus

imusicman said:


> Anyone bought this unit in the U.K. who can confirm if its 2 or 3 pin thanks


 

 Bought it from amazon Germany and the TA came with 2 pins. But so should a British unit because in the box was also a power cable for British sockets, and this power cable has 2 pins (at the end that goes into the amplifier).
  
 I'm not an expert, but the fact that the TA only has 2 pins shouldn't keep people from buying this awesome amplifier.


----------



## Sarnia

imusicman said:


> Anyone bought this unit in the U.K. who can confirm if its 2 or 3 pin thanks


I bought it from the UK, 2 pin.


----------



## Hooster

leviticus said:


> I'm not an expert, but the fact that the TA only has 2 pins shouldn't keep people from buying this awesome amplifier.


 
  
 Absolutely, the mod is simple, so no problem.


----------



## Sarnia

leviticus said:


> Bought it from amazon Germany and the TA came with 2 pins. But so should a British unit because in the box was also a power cable for British sockets, and this power cable has 2 pins (at the end that goes into the amplifier).
> 
> I'm not an expert, but the fact that the TA only has 2 pins shouldn't keep people from buying this awesome amplifier.


I personally am pretty sure that Sony know what they're doing, so not buying it because of that wouldn't make any sense to me. 

People tend to worry about things they don't understand I think.


----------



## asquare3376

leviticus said:


> Bought it from amazon Germany and the TA came with 2 pins. But so should a British unit because in the box was also a power cable for British sockets, and this power cable has 2 pins (at the end that goes into the amplifier).
> 
> I'm not an expert, but the fact that the TA only has 2 pins shouldn't keep people from buying this awesome amplifier.


You either enjoy your music on a device or you don't. 2 pin, 3 pin, no pin, all of that doesn't matter unless you want to focus your mind on everything else but the actual sound itself. People who designed the amp obviously were much knowledgeable folks than us and they knew what they were doing.


----------



## Daroid

sarnia said:


> I personally am pretty sure that Sony know what they're doing, so not buying it because of that wouldn't make any sense to me.
> 
> People tend to worry about things they don't understand I think.


 
  
 I have to agree on this tendency, but it is ultimately up to each individual to make their own choice (rational or not).
 I've actually never seen these 2-pin C17/C18 plugs before - on the other hand C7/C8 is found EVERYWHERE, but maybe that connector isn't "nice" enough, since they didn't just go with that. No matter what, it would be nice to know more about Sony's design thoughts on why they decided opted for a floating ground. Then again, I have seen plenty of hif-amps with a earthed connector that either wasn't internally connected to anything or wasn't connected with any signal ground elsewhere - maybe because it is actually a nightmare to get right.


----------



## Hooster

hifiguy528 said:


> I don't get the mod of the ground is not connected?
> 
> 
> Most homes in the U.S. have ground-loop issues. A two-proung AC cord eliminates any buzzing noises if the user's home has wiring issues.


 
  
 It is worth checking your home's grounding. It could be a hazard if it is not done properly.


----------



## cbf123

I've just picked one of these up to go with a set of Z1R's I snagged off Amazon Warehouse here in the UK last week for £1135. I took a chance on the Warehouse deal for the TA as well, coming in at £1050, it was too big a discount for me to care about that 1 year warranty. The amp is working beautifully, sounding pretty awesome with the Z1R.
  
 I'm not sure that either the TA or Z1R have had much time put on them, so I'm looking forward to hearing where they go from here, but impressions after 24 hours of listening to them together are very strong.


----------



## Imusicman

cbf123 said:


> I've just picked one of these up to go with a set of Z1R's I snagged off Amazon Warehouse here in the UK last week for £1135. I took a chance on the Warehouse deal for the TA as well, coming in at £1050, it was too big a discount for me to care about that 1 year warranty. The amp is working beautifully, sounding pretty awesome with the Z1R.
> 
> I'm not sure that either the TA or Z1R have had much time put on them, so I'm looking forward to hearing where they go from here, but impressions after 24 hours of listening to them together are very strong.



Top result!


----------



## cbf123

Yeah, pretty pleased


----------



## Daroid

Awesome, keep the impressions coming 
 Just curious, do you have any other DAC/amp combo to compare to?
  
 1 year warranty? I thought it said 30 days pretty clearly everywhere, e.g. return if not satisfied. Of course, no matter what price one buys it at, one should always test all the connections (if at all possible) to determine it works as advertised - so yeah, no big deal.


----------



## turbo87

I believe the TA-ZH1ES is covered by 5 year warranty from Sony. At least in the US that is. Not sure about other countries though. In any case, good deal.


----------



## Sarnia

It's 2 years in the UK iirc


----------



## Daroid

Yeah, pretty envious that we don't get the 5 year warranty on the ES series 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But the special thing with Amazon Warehouse deals is this shady practice, stated https://www.amazon.co.uk/sp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B00OB25IQY&isAmazonFulfilled=1&isCBA=&marketplaceID=A1F83G8C2ARO7P&orderID=&seller=A2OAJ7377F756P&tab=&vasStoreID=:
  


> Warehouse Deals is a trading name of Amazon EU Sarl, and is part of the Amazon.com Group. We offer open box, customer returned and warehouse damaged merchandise at reduced prices with the benefits of Amazon.co.uk fulfillment and customer service.
> 
> Due to the unique nature of each Amazon Warehouse Deals item, we unfortunately will be unable to replace any item.
> 
> ...


----------



## cbf123

Hey, thanks for the replies. Sorry, my post should have read that I DON'T care about getting a 1 year warranty at the price I've paid, and I'm probably not covered by Sony for the 5 years. Both products are working perfectly though, and I know that those prices will not be beaten with anything further than the 30 day return policy. I'd be buying directly second hand to get those prices, and even then I'd probably pay a bit more.

 The practice of not supplying a manufacturers warranty with an open-box product is bizarre, though. I work in electrical retail (for my sins) and open-box products still carry the same warranty when we sell them. Typically a manufacturer will have very little idea of what condition a product is sold in by a retailer, nor would they care for the most part. The likeliness of a fault is hopefully slim, but it seems very un-Amazon like almost, for Amazon to not just offer the warranty anyway. They're doing no favours to people by selling at the Warehouse prices. They need to sell the stock either way...
  
 I've had loads of stuff in and out of the house in the past few weeks. I've got a Questyle CMA600i that is on its way out, that was partnered with the Z1R briefly, as well as Oppo PM-3's and some AT ATH-W1000Z's for a while too. I've also used the Chord Mojo and now the TA with the above cans as well as with my Z1R. The TA is a class above all of them, and is definitely a better match than the CMA600i with the Z1R. The Mojo is a great portable option, but it probably won't see much use from me now.
  
 Looking forward to some further listening, but I'll probably be sticking with this setup for the forseeable now.


----------



## Whitigir

TA is beyond Ha-1 and is approaching high-end system easily. I am going to test out RCA out soon. Does anyone have any idea what drive the output on it RCA ? Op-amp ? Which model ? Can someone share the service Manual ?


----------



## L Zhao

Hi Folks,
  
 Just received TA-ZH1ES. It plays fine when using WM1Z walkman as source. However, when chose the "USB-B" as source and connect to mac, none of the audio apps (Tidal, Audirvana+ etc...) able to transit any source, it freezed the mac and force the app to quit. Anybody else have the issue? Pretty sure it's not the mac's problem, i am able to transit source to Schitt DAC...
  
  
 Anybody here able to play music through Mac successfully?
  
 Much appreciated,


----------



## asquare3376

l zhao said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> Just received TA-ZH1ES. It plays fine when using WM1Z walkman as source. However, when chose the "USB-B" as source and connect to mac, none of the audio apps (Tidal, Audirvana+ etc...) able to transit any source, it freezed the mac and force the app to quit. Anybody else have the issue? Pretty sure it's not the mac's problem, i am able to transit source to Schitt DAC...
> 
> ...


 
 Are you able to play anything at all from your Mac? I'm running windows 10 and so far no problems with any of the applications. You may want to check your amp's driver on the Mac. Looks like it needs an upgrade.


----------



## L Zhao

asquare3376 said:


> Are you able to play anything at all from your Mac? I'm running windows 10 and so far no problems with any of the applications. You may want to check your amp's driver on the Mac. Looks like it needs an upgrade.


 
  
 There is no driver for mac. Unless I missed anything?
  
 Nothing worked when choosing TA-ZH1ES as DAC using Mac (OS X 12.6). Tried with iMac 5K and Macbook pro, same issue....
  
 However, "PC/USB source" mode does work when using iphone+camera kit as source. 
  
 I saw a few previous posts states the similar issue when using Mac. One poster said it was resolved on his macbook..
  
 I am wondering if TA-ZH1ES work with mac at all, can anyone confirm that this is a known issue?


----------



## L Zhao

appleheadmay said:


> Hmm, got it to work on my MacBook. Probably too much USB stuff connected to the iMac, the poor thing seems to flip when I connect the Sony.


 
  
 Can you please elaborate what you did to resolve the issue?


----------



## asquare3376

l zhao said:


> There is no driver for mac. Unless I missed anything?
> 
> Nothing worked when choosing TA-ZH1ES as DAC using Mac (OS X 12.6). Tried with iMac 5K and Macbook pro, same issue....
> 
> ...


 
 See this :
 https://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/content/cnt-dwnl/prd-acc/sony-hi-res-audio-player-mac-ver125/TA-ZH1ES#about


----------



## L Zhao

asquare3376 said:


> See this :
> https://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/content/cnt-dwnl/prd-acc/sony-hi-res-audio-player-mac-ver125/TA-ZH1ES#about


 
  
 Looks like the only player works in mac is SONY's own Hi-Res Audio Player (1.2.6)....
  
 All the 3rd party players (JRiver, Audirvana+, Tidal etc...) are suffering hanging issues and force to quit. Apparently SONY has some proprietary way/driver to communicate with the amp that Mac user cannot installed to support 3rd party software.
  
 This is really disappointing.


----------



## DJBaila

Works with 2016 12" MacBook (USB-C) without issues using Sony Hi-Res Audio app and it sounds fantastic. The app is simple, plays EVERY file type, and best sound quality of any audio app I've used.


----------



## AppleheadMay

l zhao said:


> Can you please elaborate what you did to resolve the issue?


 
  
 I returned the amp.
 No matter what I tried I coulcn't get it to work on the iMac, not even with all USB devices unplugged except for KB and mouse. In none of the audiuo players I have.
 On the MBP it worked with all the same audio players.


----------



## L Zhao

appleheadmay said:


> I returned the amp.
> No matter what I tried I coulcn't get it to work on the iMac, not even with all USB devices unplugged except for KB and mouse. In none of the audiuo players I have.
> On the MBP it worked with all the same audio players.


 
  
 "On the MBP it worked with all the same audio players."
  
 Do you mean it works for audio players other than SONY's hi-res audio player? (i.e. Tidal etc...)


----------



## AppleheadMay

l zhao said:


> "On the MBP it worked with all the same audio players."
> 
> Do you mean it works for audio players other than SONY's hi-res audio player? (i.e. Tidal etc...)


 
  
  
 Sure, it's a dac, it works with any audio player you install on your mac, even straight from the OS for sound you play from a browser or whatever you want to play through it.


----------



## WNBC

Interesting, didn't know Sony had a high resolution app for Mac desktop.
  
 All players do work on my 2013 Macbook Pro (El Capitan 10.11.16).  I use Spotify, Tidal, iTunes, HQPlayer (trial) but primarily Amarra 4.
  
 After all cables and connections are made:
 Step 1.  Go to Macbook "sound" setting and click "output" to select DAC 
 Step 2.  Go to "Audio Midi Setup" and select your audio device (probably will already be highlight but check anyway).  
 Step 3.  When the sound app player is open, I have to make sure the settings are correctly highlighted, pointing the app to the audio device (DAC in this case) and buffer size.  
  
 I don't have my Sony with me right now at work, but the above should work.  There should be no problem running the TA-ZH1ES on a Macbook and I assume it is fine for newer Macs.  I don't know if Step 2 is always required but sometimes with my other DACs I wasn't getting the correct output depth and bitrate so I would go into Audio Midi to fix that.  It's a one time fix, you won't have to continually go back.  What I did find is that if I had multiple sound devices installed with their own software, the previous audio device attached could be highlighted and not the current one. 
  
 I do like Amarra but open to hearing about other players people use.


----------



## Daroid

Received mine today - very positive impressions so far.
 One thing struck me a bit by surprise though: The color of the unit isn't exactly what one would call black. It's more copper-black. What does Sony describe this color as? There are not more than one variant, or?


----------



## WNBC

Got home and tried some things after Craig mentioned Tidal desktop wasn't working.
  
 1.)  Tidal Desktop Direct to TA-Z does not work.  Mac could see the TA-Z but the TA-Z could not read the files or at least the LCD panel was indicating no streaming to it
*EDIT: JUST DOWNLOADED A TIDAL DESKTOP UPDATE.  NOW WORKING CORRECTLY.  *
  
 2.)  Tidal Desktop via Singxer SU-1 to TA-Z DOES work (this is how I primarily use the TA-Z) and I could see correct bit rate/depth on TA-Z LCD panel
 3.)  Amarra Desktop direct to TA-Z DOES work (no SU-1 needed) and I could see correct bit rate/depth on TA-Z LCD panel
 4.)  Spotify Desktop direct to TA-Z DOES work (no SU-1 needed) and I could see correct bit rate/depth on TA-Z LCD panel
 5.)  iTunes direct to TA-Z DOES work (no SU-1 needed) and I could see correct bit rate/depth on TA-Z LCD panel
 4.)  Amazon Music Desktop direct to TA-Z DOES work (no SU-1 needed) and I could see correct bit rate/depth on TA-Z LCD panel
  
 Indeed, Tidal desktop is not working unless you have a DDC in place and using the coaxial input of TA-Z.    
  
 Some screenshots to see the settings...


----------



## koroshiya8

Bad news folks.. I start to see what I believe is a defective LCD screen .. today is day 7 of my purchase. 
The first thing i noticed was that the entire lcd was flashing, after a while it stabilised, and i started to notice the top left there is a flashing pixel. 

i'm taking no chances with this and reported to my trusted retailer

[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/U-z9boshMcY[/VIDEO]


----------



## L Zhao

wnbc said:


> Got home and tried some things after Craig mentioned Tidal desktop wasn't working.
> 
> 1.)  Tidal Desktop Direct to TA-Z does not work.  Mac could see the TA-Z but the TA-Z could not read the files or at least the LCD panel was indicating no streaming to it
> *EDIT: JUST DOWNLOADED A TIDAL DESKTOP UPDATE.  NOW WORKING CORRECTLY.  *
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Thanks for sharing the info! Glad to know it's working on some Mac.
  
 Can you post your Mac OS version? Also, is TA-Z1RES set "Exclusive Mode" in Tidal?


----------



## WNBC

2013 Macbook Pro (El Capitan 10.11.16)

Exclusive mode is off. 

I have heard that the Tidal update is not working for everyone, but all those other players should work at least on the older Mac OS.



l zhao said:


> Thanks for sharing the info! Glad to know it's working on some Mac.
> 
> Can you post your Mac OS version? Also, is TA-Z1RES set "Exclusive Mode" in Tidal?


----------



## L Zhao

wnbc said:


> Interesting, didn't know Sony had a high resolution app for Mac desktop.
> 
> All players do work on my 2013 Macbook Pro (El Capitan 10.11.16).  I use Spotify, Tidal, iTunes, HQPlayer (trial) but primarily Amarra 4.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I did some research and found there are lots of Audio DAC issue related to latest Mac OS Sierra - Apparently one of the core audio library is broken in latest mac.
  
 Ref: https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/65232
  
 I followed one of the advise from audirvana forum by replacing the IOAudioFamily.kext with the one from El Capitan, now Mac OS and Tidal can output audio to TA-ZH1ES *via Core Audio layer using the preset sampling rate (e.g. 44khz/16bits) from MIDI setting.*
  
 However, *when enable "Exclusive Mode" / "Direct Mode" it still freeze and quit*. This certainly has an impact to audio quality (e.g. Amp shows 192khz/32bits when playing Tidia with Exclusive mode off, the core audio does the upsampling using midi setting....) .... and without Direct Mode, I will have to switch the sampling rate manually when play different music file, which is a nightware.
  
 Still trying to see if there is a way to resolve this.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

l zhao said:


> I did some research and found there are lots of Audio DAC issue related to latest Mac OS Sierra - Apparently one of the core audio library is broken in latest mac.
> 
> Ref: https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/65232
> 
> ...



I appreciate this. We have it now that we can use Tidal on the web browser but not the app


----------



## tradyblix

l zhao said:


> I did some research and found there are lots of Audio DAC issue related to latest Mac OS Sierra - Apparently one of the core audio library is broken in latest mac.
> 
> Ref: https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/65232
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know this is a problem because Tidal works totally fine on El Capitan machines. I've just given up on Tidal for now and went back to iTunes. Tidal has a lot of missing content anyway.


----------



## Hooster

l zhao said:


> I did some research and found there are lots of Audio DAC issue related to latest Mac OS Sierra - Apparently one of the core audio library is broken in latest mac.


 
  
 Good job. Perhaps people should be returning the mac rather then the TA, since the mac is the component that is working incorrectly.


----------



## tradyblix

hooster said:


> Good job. Perhaps people should be returning the mac rather then the TA, since the mac is the component that is working incorrectly.


 

 One of the problems with large thread on head-fi is that nobody reads the entire thread. We talked about this a little 2 weeks ago, but at the time nobody had this insight as to what the issue exactly was (personally, since iTunes still works, this to me is a Tidal problem, not Apple, they need to change what they're doing)
  
 Every time we get a set of new users talking about this or just getting their box and then the thread is going basically in isolation since people tend to drop off except when buying new equipment or getting into discussions on it. 
  
 I suppose it can't be helped. 
  
 In the meantime, although I look favorably on Tidal's SQ, I decided to end my subscription since I can get most of the same exact music and even more on iTunes and don't want the hassle of maintaining 2 connections. I'll just have to give up on lossless for a while.
  
 A question : Do you guys think it's better with the ZH1 to allow it to do all the up sampling in it's hardware ? so keep a 16/48khz or 16/44.1 stream out and then let the up sampling occur only on the dac side in hardware ? or use the midi settings to change that in core audio to the highest (i.e., one of the 7xx kHz PCM rates) and then upsample to DSD ?


----------



## Whitigir

If anyone in the Us want to buy. A used TA ? I have mine up, I want to get a dedicated stand alone DAC since my Stax sound quality is so addictive......time to stack more and more ! Excellent condition with the socket mod and solid silver wires behind it  easily reversed to stock socket if you desire.

TA is an excellent piece of integrated headphones+amp, but not as a good DAC (never designed in mind). I need something that is more dedicated for my Stax.


----------



## beowulf

tradyblix said:


> One of the problems with large thread on head-fi is that nobody reads the entire thread. We talked about this a little 2 weeks ago, but at the time nobody had this insight as to what the issue exactly was (personally, since iTunes still works, this to me is a Tidal problem, not Apple, they need to change what they're doing)
> 
> Every time we get a set of new users talking about this or just getting their box and then the thread is going basically in isolation since people tend to drop off except when buying new equipment or getting into discussions on it.
> 
> I suppose it can't be helped.


 
  
 Actually it can be helped very easily.
 There's a somewhat discrete link at the top of the page: "SEARCH THIS THREAD".
  
 Adding a few keywords there will get you the posts that mention that. People are either unaware or just want quick answers, ending up not only seeing less information but also adding more noise/repetition in some cases.
  
 That doesn't mean one can't ask. I often ask something that was already discussed, but first I hunt down the info and if it's not enough (or I want something slightly different), then I post.


----------



## tradyblix

Damn, this box is good. There may be better equipment out there, but for me this is my first foray into truly *expensive* (for me) audio gear. Now I'm convinced.


----------



## tradyblix

tradyblix said:


> Damn, this box is good. There may be better equipment out there, but for me this is my first foray into truly *expensive* (for me) audio gear. Now I'm convinced.
> 
> 
> A question : Do you guys think it's better with the ZH1 to allow it to do all the up sampling in it's hardware ? so keep a 16/48khz or 16/44.1 stream out and then let the up sampling occur only on the dac side in hardware ? or use the midi settings to change that in core audio to the highest (i.e., one of the 7xx kHz PCM rates) and then upsample to DSD ?


 
  
  
 Somewhat Sadly I had to answer this question myself. Regardless of whether it's software upsampling or not, 32/768 khz out of the box and upsampled to DSD is obviously best from a SQ perspective. I really don't know why people are afraid of upsampling. I guess it's relatively modern idea. At least at these rates.


----------



## LetsEvolve

Hi guys,
  
 Could anyone, please, tell me if the 'TA-ZH1ES' has the feature that 'NW-WM1A' dap has - the 'Direct source', which disables all the sound enhancements. I've got the 'NW-WM1A' and I like to listen to it with all the sound features off - just straight with 'Direct Sound' turned on. Now I'm planning to buy this desktop dac/amp and wondering if it has same (very useful) feature 'Direct Source' option to turn off all the sound enhancements.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Whitigir

letsevolve said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Could anyone, please, tell me if the 'TA-ZH1ES' has the feature that 'NW-WM1A' dap has - the 'Direct source', which disables all the sound enhancements. I've got the 'NW-WM1A' and I like to listen to it with all the sound features off - just straight with 'Direct Sound' turned on. Now I'm planning to buy this desktop dac/amp and wondering if it has same (very useful) feature 'Direct Source' option to turn off all the sound enhancements.
> 
> Thank you.




Unfortunately, it does not


----------



## LetsEvolve

Oh, that is a real shame ((, because it sounds best when all the sound "features" are off. For the that price tag Sony could add "Direct Source" feature to the unit.


----------



## Whitigir

letsevolve said:


> Oh, that is a real shame ((, because it sounds the best when all the sound "features" is off.




You can turn all sound affects off. However pcm will automatically be upconverted, but it still sound wonderful


----------



## asquare3376

@Whitigir is a genius but I believe he already knows that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Got my dock today, immediately hooked it up with the TA using AQ Cinnamon. Source was ZX100 (Still waiting on WM1A), and, was in for total bliss. Sounds much much better than the USB input for which I've been using Alienware with AQ Carbon. Looking forward to the 1A pairing. Thanks a lot friend ...


----------



## Whitigir

asquare3376 said:


> @Whitigir
> is a genius but I believe he already knows that
> Got my dock today, immediately hooked it up with the TA using AQ Cinnamon. Source was ZX100 (Still waiting on WM1A), and, was in for total bliss. Sounds much much better than the USB input for which I've been using Alienware with AQ Carbon. Looking forward to the 1A pairing. Thanks a lot friend ...




Well, thank you !  I am glad you are enjoying your new found system


----------



## asquare3376

whitigir said:


> Well, thank you !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Your review was the primary reason I got the TA-ZH1ES and Z1R in the first place. Total Awesomeness!!!


----------



## TSAVJason

asquare3376 said:


> Your review was the primary reason I got the TA-ZH1ES and Z1R in the first place. Total Awesomeness!!!


Wait??? What about our showroom allowing your audition??


----------



## asquare3376

tsavjason said:


> Wait??? What about our showroom allowing your audition??


 
  
 Jason, You're way too cool to be mentioning here and I know my flattery is not going to bring me further discounts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But @Whitigir & Mike-@HiFiGuy528 were the main reason I came to know about your wonderful store.


----------



## coke-1

Hi guys. I'm new here. I've been following this thread since the start. Can anyone with the TA post weather the volume knob physically moves when you use the remote to increase or decrease the volume. Thanks!


----------



## Hooster

Have any more people done the three pin mod? Are you seeing any major gains from that?


----------



## tradyblix

No, it does not


----------



## nanaholic

I'd rather want to know if it's possible to source the different voltage transformer units.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

In case you missed it. New v1.03 (bug fixes) firmware was released to on 3/21. Here's link to Mac version download. You can get Windows version on Sony support site.
  
 https://esupport.sony.com/US/p/swu-download.pl?mdl=TAZH1ES&upd_id=11088&os_group_id=3
  


coke-1 said:


> Hi guys. I'm new here. I've been following this thread since the start. Can anyone with the TA post weather the volume knob physically moves when you use the remote to increase or decrease the volume. Thanks!


 
 No, it does not. It's a digital volume control.


----------



## Hooster

hifiguy528 said:


> In case you missed it. New v1.03 (bug fixes) firmware was released to on 3/21. Here's link to Mac version download. You can get Windows version on Sony support site.


 
 Awesome, thanks!


----------



## Rob49

whitigir said:


> If anyone in the Us want to buy. A used TA ? I have mine up, I want to get a dedicated stand alone DAC since my Stax sound quality is so addictive......time to stack more and more ! Excellent condition with the socket mod and solid silver wires behind it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Whit, i'm really shocked at this, even though you've given your clear reasons why, i wouldn't have dreamt that you would have even considered selling it, given that you've expressed, "it's the best thing since sliced bread" ! ( A U.K. phrase. )
  
 PS Is there anything that you own, that you haven't modded ???


----------



## Whitigir

rob49 said:


> Whit, i'm really shocked at this, even though you've given your clear reasons why, i wouldn't have dreamt that you would have even considered selling it, given that you've expressed, "it's the best thing since sliced bread" ! ( A U.K. phrase. )
> 
> PS Is there anything that you own, that you haven't modded ???




I really was going to stop at the TA as an all in one unit, and especially that DSD remastering engine ! I love it so so much for all online contents and streaming

For your question...I only modified for performances gain. Using upgraded power cord already provide better dynamic and all that, upgraded internal wires further enhance the effects. Now, I am selling it because I want to better my Stax  ...this hobby is evil! Utopia, z1r, 009, I wouldn't modify btw


----------



## koroshiya8

For me, as time goes by my requirements changes, for example i used to have a HDVD800 and now that i've change to the TA, i kinda miss the BlancedOutput to speaker because i'm going to change my desktop speakers soon


----------



## Hooster

whitigir said:


> For your question...I only modified for performances gain. Using upgraded power cord already provide better dynamic and all that,


 
  
 That is what I thought, this is a great opportunity to get one with the socket mod.


----------



## Daroid

Yeah, was also kind of shocked about your decision Whitigir, but thinking more and more about it, if one is going the Stax/stats route, the ZH1 is a compromise since the amp part will sit completely unused. I don't think you'll find a better DAC, but with only unbalanced out it is an unnecessary compromise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have another dilemma:
 I need a 6.5m / 21ft USB cable connection from my PC to the ZH1 due to how the ZH1 is placed in my HT setup. I was thinking of something like the Intona USB isolator, as in PC -> 5m USB -> Intona ->1.5m cable -> ZH1. I suppose the point with such a unit is that I can exceed the max of 5 meter/16 ft defined for USB2 with no problem, or have I misunderstood?


----------



## Whitigir

Long USB cables is horrible, period. Keep them civil, and keep them in 2m or below.


----------



## TSAVJason

whitigir said:


> Long USB cables is horrible, period. Keep them civil, and keep them in 2m or below.


 

What USBs are you referring to? We have quite a few that have no issues above 2 meters.


----------



## Whitigir

tsavjason said:


> What USBs are you referring to? We have quite a few that have no issues above 2 meters.




Just theoretically speaking  . Ofcourse when money is no issue, long USB is possible to have it done right. Perhap you should point the guy toward a good solution. I, personally, would re-arrange all the pieces to avoid going in the route of long USB lol


----------



## TSAVJason

whitigir said:


> Just theoretically speaking  . Ofcourse when money is no issue, long USB is possible to have it done right. Perhap you should point the guy toward a good solution. I, personally, would re-arrange all the pieces to avoid going in the route of long USB lol




Hahahaha you're a wildman Whitigir! You knew I'd call you on that one didn't you?

You're mostly right, shorter is better but when there is no option there are longer USB cables that work really well. I'm always willing to give people here help with options to research for purchase.


----------



## tradyblix

rob49 said:


> Whit, i'm really shocked at this, even though you've given your clear reasons why, i wouldn't have dreamt that you would have even considered selling it, given that you've expressed, "it's the best thing since sliced bread" ! ( A U.K. phrase. )
> 
> PS Is there anything that you own, that you haven't modded ???




Head fi sometimes lol


----------



## tradyblix

I truly understand why head fi has such a huge proportion of banned users at this point


----------



## coke-1

hifiguy528 said:


> In case you missed it. New v1.03 (bug fixes) firmware was released to on 3/21. Here's link to Mac version download. You can get Windows version on Sony support site.
> 
> https://esupport.sony.com/US/p/swu-download.pl?mdl=TAZH1ES&upd_id=11088&os_group_id=3



Thanks for clearing that up!


----------



## Daroid

tsavjason said:


> Hahahaha you're a wildman Whitigir! You knew I'd call you on that one didn't you?
> 
> You're mostly right, shorter is better but when there is no option there are longer USB cables that work really well. I'm always willing to give people here help with options to research for purchase.


 
  
 Thanks - do you have a good suggestion? I'm kind of lost as there are also options such as USB over ethernet and optical a long with a plethora of "reclockers" "purifiers" and so on. I must say that I would have no problem purchasing from you if it wasn't for the hefty customs charges and additional VAT that it would include, when importing from the US.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

daroid said:


> Thanks - do you have a good suggestion? I'm kind of lost as there are also options such as USB over ethernet and optical a long with a *plethora of "reclockers" "purifiers" *and so on. I must say that I would have no problem purchasing from you if it wasn't for the hefty customs charges and additional VAT that it would include, when importing from the US.


 
  
 You don't need those with ZH1es or any well designed DACs. Just get a high quality USB cable such as Nordost or Kimber Kable.


----------



## Whitigir

hifiguy528 said:


> You don't need those with ZH1es or any well designed DACs. Just get a high quality USB cable such as Nordost or Kimber Kable.




Exactly, I had been telling people this over and over again, but it is hard to convince them lol. In my experiences, these clock generator or purifier, filter, conditioner, whatever, only color up or veil up your sources and components true signature/performances.

Again, good quality systems only need good USB cables, but don't be mistaken USB cables for your analog cables. They are very hard to make right, let alone Audiophile grade. So they are generally very expensive, but they are worth it ways more than any cheap purifier/conditioner....funky, funny, monkey business, period


----------



## koroshiya8

hi guys my retailer finally replaced a new set for the previous that had faulty LCD.
  
 however the first thing i noticed is that i am not getting any DSD encoding. What is displayed is just PCM @ 44.1khz. i remember the 1st amp, i did not have to do anything to get DSD 11.2 displayed on the LCD.
  
 i am using music bee, and after playing around with the setting i'm still unable to get DSD indicator. My source is via a CHORD usb from computer. tried another cable and still the same.
  
 The songs i play are definitely DSD files.. 
  
 any kind soul can help please. thanks!!


----------



## purk

whitigir said:


> Exactly, I had been telling people this over and over again, but it is hard to convince them lol. In my experiences, these clock generator or purifier, filter, conditioner, whatever, only color up or veil up your sources and components true signature/performances.
> 
> Again, good quality systems only need good USB cables, but don't be mistaken USB cables for your analog cables. They are very hard to make right, let alone Audiophile grade. So they are generally very expensive, but they are worth it ways more than any cheap purifier/conditioner....funky, funny, monkey business, period


 
 I didn't believe in USB cables myself initially and was proven wrong again and again.  The included USB to Walkman cable is very low quality and will muddied up the sound.  I suggest getting a much better USB cable instead.


----------



## asquare3376

purk said:


> I didn't believe in USB cables myself initially and was proven wrong again and again.  The included USB to Walkman cable is very low quality and will muddied up the sound.  I suggest getting a much better USB cable instead.


 But what other option do we have here? Noone seems to be making a cable which connects to the WM port.


----------



## purk

asquare3376 said:


> But what other option do we have here? Noone seems to be making a cable which connects to the WM port.


 
 Get a dedicated Walkman dock and a nice USB cable.  That's the best bet.


----------



## asquare3376

purk said:


> Get a dedicated Walkman dock and a nice USB cable.  That's the best bet.


yep! Got one few days back


----------



## asquare3376

koroshiya8 said:


> hi guys my retailer finally replaced a new set for the previous that had faulty LCD.
> 
> however the first thing i noticed is that i am not getting any DSD encoding. What is displayed is just PCM @ 44.1khz. i remember the 1st amp, i did not have to do anything to get DSD 11.2 displayed on the LCD.
> 
> ...


 
 Were you able to figure it out? You have to turn on the DSD Remastering, and if you're using Analog in, you can specify the incoming bit rate down the line under the Menu options itself.


----------



## koroshiya8

asquare3376 said:


> Were you able to figure it out? You have to turn on the DSD Remastering, and if you're using Analog in, you can specify the incoming bit rate down the line under the Menu options itself.


 
 Thanks. Still figuring out. However when i use the Hi-Res player, it can detect DSD no issue. 
  
 Looks like some configuration on Music Bee, or i should just move to JRiver instead.


----------



## koroshiya8

LOL.. Sony refused to let me give my review.
 Looks like only "wow this product is awesome, best amp i ever used' will be posted.
 Then they should fix their ratings to only 4 and 5 stars instead of having all 5 star option.
  
  
 So far both their response, service and the particular TA i bought have been extremely poor and i had to call a spade a spade


----------



## Hooster

koroshiya8 said:


> LOL.. Sony refused to let me give my review.


 
  
 You could publish it here if you like.


----------



## slingshot80

Hi, I just found out about this amp/DAC today. I have read most of the posts. I have been researching stand-alone head phone amps and combo amps/DACs like this one. I am considering the Trilogy 933, a very high quality amp made in U.K.  I am also considering the Hugo 2, the Hugo TT 2 when it’s released, the Simaudio Neo 430 and Pass Labs HPA-1 among others.
  
 I would like to see some more professional reviews on the Sony. HiFI Choice gave it four stars and gave the original Hugo five stars. I have a high quality DAC; the Aqua La Scala II so it probably makes more sense to purchase an amp. However, there is a lot more flexibility with a combo on where and how can use it.   
  
 Anyway the price of the Sony is very good and this will be a secondary system for me. As far as buying it overseas, the five year warranty is worth the extra money to me unless the difference is more than about $400. If it breaks, Sony probably won't even look at it and you will have to find someone else to repair it or ship it back overseas. Most electronics do not have a five year warranty.  
  
 I am going to Europe in two months and maybe I can buy the Hugo 2, if it is released by then or the Trilogy. I don’t think the Trilogy is sold in the U.S. so they might provide me a warranty. Aqua gave me a warranty because at the time they didn’t have any dealers in the U.S and I purchased it from them.
  
 I purchased a used Reimyo DAC overseas with no warranty and I used a converter. I didn't notice any noise issues. Anyway, I will continue to read the comments here.


----------



## asquare3376

slingshot80 said:


> Hi, I just found out about this amp/DAC today. HiFI Choice gave it four stars and gave the original Hugo five stars. Anyway, I will continue to read the comments here.


 Stop reading reviews and worrying about the "stars". Go for a demo. If it sounds good, bring it home. Everything else is irrelevant.


----------



## Rayon

I would also love to hear some comparisons between Hugo/Hugo2 and TA-ZH1ES. There is no actual possibility to go hear those anywhere nearby where I live. I've actually ordered TA-ZH1ES already, but I've started to hesitate since Hugo2 is coming and also 4 stars vs 5 stars from What Hi-Fi is putting more gas into flames.
  
 The setup will be desktop rig, so portability question is not an issue. Nor am I going to upgrade the system anyhow with any speakers/dedicated amp, because it's coming to an office. What I need is compact dac+headphone amp combo to rip best out of my MDR-Z1R that I love. Only SQ is considered.
  
 I've read from several places that Hugo sounds "rhythmic" and "lively", which to my ears sounds really nice. However I've also understood that the bass side has not been the first thing in their mind when designing Hugo and currently the biggest thing I'm missing when playing Z1R through Beresford TC-7520 is the bass impact that I got out of these when played with RHA L1. However with RHA I missed some details and I'm hoping my DAC/Amp to somehow combine these (bass impact + details) and so take me to closed-back musical heaven.
  
 Based on what I've read about TA-ZH1ES, I've understood that it should do just that. However Hugo is rhythmic and only 4 stars for TA... Am I missing something? Who does prefer Hugo and who TA-ZH1ES and why?
  
 I already have HD800 connected to LA-100+DNA Sonett, so I'm looking something from "the darker side" to complement the package without compromising "liveliness". I guess what I'm afraid is that ZH1ES is boring or missing rhythm since I'm comparing it to Hugo that is said to be lively and rhythmic


----------



## Daroid

I can't help you with a Hugo/Hugo2 comparison. I think you should however compare it to the TT variant, since you are comparing one desktop variant with another. I know there is a crazy difference in price, but I'd personally never opt for such a small/light item for desktop use - you'l pull it all over the table when you move the headphone cable, especially if you are sitting at a far distance from the Chord.
  
 Regarding the 4 stars: That was also worrying me to no end. But I took a chance on the TA-ZH1ES, and I honestly can't tell what it is that What Hi-fi might be hearing on the analog inputs that they don't like. I'm more inclined to think that their analog source is either not up to par with their digital sources, or the ADC is clipping due to incorrect input levels.
 I'm using the ZH1 with a Thorens TD2001 turntable, with Benz Micro Silver MC cart together with a Thel Audio Phono-X RIAA. Prior to the ZH1, I was outputting the Phono-X output to an Emmeline XP-7. The ZH1 produces a much, much cleaner sound - effortless and layered. Nothing less than a day/night difference. You can surely do better, but you are going to pay for it.
 And regarding What Hi-fi and their reviews: At least some of their reviews are biased and with cons that don't make any sense. Especially, if something becomes too mainstream, e.g. Sony, NAD, Onkoy etc. then it isn't "special enough" to receive much critical acclaim. Take a look at some of their other reviews, also for different product categories.


----------



## slingshot80

I agree reviews are not the "end all be all" but they are something to consider. They test a wide variety of products so their opinion does have some weight. 
  
  In an ideal world a dealer would have every amp and headphone and we could test them all at the same time. 
  
 The Sony has a lot to offer in a small package. However, l am leaning towards the Trilogy if I can get one connected to my DAC.


----------



## TSAVJason

slingshot80 said:


> I agree reviews are not the "end all be all" but they are something to consider. They test a wide variety of products so their opinion does have some weight.
> 
> In an ideal world a dealer would have every amp and headphone and we could test them all at the same time.
> 
> The Sony has a lot to offer in a small package. However, l am leaning towards the Trilogy if I can get one connected to my DAC.




Hey! TSAV is that ideal world  :thumbsup_tone1: ......sorry couldn't resist.


----------



## slingshot80

Yes, you have some great product lines but you are too far away.


----------



## Rayon

daroid said:


> I can't help you with a Hugo/Hugo2 comparison. I think you should however compare it to the TT variant, since you are comparing one desktop variant with another. I know there is a crazy difference in price, but I'd personally never opt for such a small/light item for desktop use - you'l pull it all over the table when you move the headphone cable, especially if you are sitting at a far distance from the Chord.
> 
> Regarding the 4 stars: That was also worrying me to no end. But I took a chance on the TA-ZH1ES, and I honestly can't tell what it is that What Hi-fi might be hearing on the analog inputs that they don't like. I'm more inclined to think that their analog source is either not up to par with their digital sources, or the ADC is clipping due to incorrect input levels.
> I'm using the ZH1 with a Thorens TD2001 turntable, with Benz Micro Silver MC cart together with a Thel Audio Phono-X RIAA. Prior to the ZH1, I was outputting the Phono-X output to an Emmeline XP-7. The ZH1 produces a much, much cleaner sound - effortless and layered. Nothing less than a day/night difference. You can surely do better, but you are going to pay for it.
> And regarding What Hi-fi and their reviews: At least some of their reviews are biased and with cons that don't make any sense. Especially, if something becomes too mainstream, e.g. Sony, NAD, Onkoy etc. then it isn't "special enough" to receive much critical acclaim. Take a look at some of their other reviews, also for different product categories.


 
  
 Thanks Daroid. Not going to use those analog inputs though, but instead planning it to be the one and only workhorse between Z1R and PC. What I've heard is that Hugo2 may sound even better than TT so that's why I was interested in it. TT is currently out of my budget. Also I'm going to sit right in front of the desk all the time so I won't have that long chord -issue. Also along with "proper" desktop unit you are always paying extra for more inputs and outputs that I'm not going to need. Just want the most enjoyable sound with 2500€, Z1R and PC - preferably in a "compact" (ie. not several components that occupy a lot of desk space) package.
  
 Good to hear (again) that ZH1ES works for somebody and that someone is questioning the missing star. After listening Z1R with 10+ different sources, I'm now convinced that our friends from Sony know something about sound. But still, why is not everybody with Z1Rs screaming and buying ZH1ESs?


----------



## nanaholic

rayon said:


> But still, why is not everybody with Z1Rs screaming and buying ZH1ESs?


 
  
 I'm guessing it's partially because it is Sony's first attempt at a serious desktop headphone amp, whereas OEMs like Chord has already build quite a reputation for themselves.


----------



## buzzlulu

Some people have said the amp is warm sounding and - combined with an already warm Z1R- might not be an ideal match.

I know it is strange as they are part of an eco system


----------



## Rayon

Hmm... Both true. Myself, I feel like Z1R could have even some more warmness. For example with Dragonfly red, Beresford TC-7520 and LA-100 it's a bit too bright to me to be my fun can. It may be as well that what I'm looking for from Z1R differs from others... Definitely if I was to listen classical with it, I wouldn't consider ZH1ES. To me closed=fun automatically, but it was just my narrow mindedness to think everyone is looking for the same thing here.


----------



## Whitigir

Honestly, it is not the ZH1Es fault, more like the Z1R fault. zH1Es is beautiful with Utopia for that matter


----------



## Rayon

whitigir said:


> Honestly, it is not the ZH1Es fault, more like the Z1R fault. zH1Es is beautiful with Utopia for that matter


 

 Sounds good. Maybe in some point I will sell my HD800 and buy Utopia to enjoy Holy Trinity of Z1R, Utopia and ZH1ES


----------



## koroshiya8

Finally Sony completed my repairs.


----------



## Gonzi

Press "Display" button on remote


----------



## Daroid

rayon said:


> Thanks Daroid. Not going to use those analog inputs though, but instead planning it to be the one and only workhorse between Z1R and PC. What I've heard is that Hugo2 may sound even better than TT so that's why I was interested in it. TT is currently out of my budget. Also I'm going to sit right in front of the desk all the time so I won't have that long chord -issue. Also along with "proper" desktop unit you are always paying extra for more inputs and outputs that I'm not going to need. Just want the most enjoyable sound with 2500€, Z1R and PC - preferably in a "compact" (ie. not several components that occupy a lot of desk space) package.
> 
> Good to hear (again) that ZH1ES works for somebody and that someone is questioning the missing star. After listening Z1R with 10+ different sources, I'm now convinced that our friends from Sony know something about sound. But still, why is not everybody with Z1Rs screaming and buying ZH1ESs?


 

 I think a Hugo 2 TT would be in the works too, and this is what you should probably wait for, if you were considering a Hugo TT today, but it was out of my price range too - and being a 95% Hugo, it is hard to see where the money really went. On the other hand, they are pricing equipment at the amount people still want to pay, and apparently people with desktop setups are willing to spend more money than people seeking a more portable setup.
  
 I think that the reason why people with Z1R or Sony headphones in general don't fly out and buy the ZH1 is the same reason why a lot of people don't just buy their Beyerdynamic T1 with the Beyerdynamic A1 amp or Sennheiser HD800/S owners don't just blindly buy the HDVD800. It is the boring, non-exotic route. One could also say that choosing a combined dac/amp makes the system harder to upgrade than a system with a dedicated amp and dedicated DAC. Not that I really understand the latter argument, because you're forced to pay more than you pay for the ZH1 for either the DAC or the amp to get something that is better - See Purk's opinion previously in this thread.
  
 I guess you could in theory order both the Hugo an ZH1 and return the one you don't want using the store's return policy? The shops may even offer a demo unit you can borrow/rent?


----------



## slingshot80

Yes the Hugo TT seems to be overpriced at $4,700 compared to the Hugo 2 and the new one will cost more.
  
 The failure to upgrade the TT at the same time has caused confusion in the the marketplace;  a real faux pas on Chord's part.   
  
 John Darko by the way ( http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/) compared my DAC, the Aqua LaScala II to the Hugo TT and according to him the LaScala was better. So I lost all interest in buying the TT. If I could find a used one at a bargain price,  I might be interested. It does has some very nice features. It is relatively portable and it has a much better PSU than the Hugo,


----------



## Hooster

slingshot80 said:


> The failure to upgrade the TT at the same time has caused confusion in the the marketplace;  a real faux pas on Chord's part.


 
  
 Call it what you like. They are not really a large company and I don't think they have the capacity to upgrade everything at the same time.
  
 The thing I am waiting for is the Mojo2.


----------



## Daroid

slingshot80 said:


> John Darko by the way ( http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/) compared my DAC, the Aqua LaScala II to the Hugo TT and according to him the LaScala was better. So I lost all interest in buying the TT. If I could find a used one at a bargain price,  I might be interested. It does has some very nice features. It is relatively portable and it has a much better PSU than the Hugo,


 
  
 That might very well be the case. Not saying that Chord do not deserve their praise, but sometimes it "masks" the other relatively unknown products out there which are just as good or better. Not a Chord fan myself simply due to their futuristic (in my eyes lack of taste) design. But luckily we all have different taste. But that horrendous split chassis that leaves a visible horizontal line right in the middle of everything.... Arrgh!
  
 Back to the Sony:
  
 Anyone know of a setup guide to get DSD working in Foobar2k? I have installed AsioProxy, but am only getting sound in DoP mode, which can't be right, or can it?


----------



## Hooster

slingshot80 said:


> I would like to see some more professional reviews on the Sony. HiFI Choice gave it four stars and gave the original Hugo five stars.


 
  
 Me too. I suspect that the Sony is a solid 5 star product with the three prong mod.


----------



## Sarnia

hooster said:


> Me too. I suspect that the Sony is a solid 5 star product with the three prong mod.


I'm pretty sure that the extra prong Whitigir added wasn't connected, so it was still a two prong connection. 

I'm also pretty sure Sony knew what they were doing when they made it two prong.


----------



## Whitigir

sarnia said:


> I'm pretty sure that the extra prong Whitigir added wasn't completely connected,so it was still a two prong connection.
> 
> I'm also pretty sure Sony knew what they were doing when they made it two prong.




Yes. I only wanted to upgrade to better wires and socket quality 

Yes, they do 

Still selling mine if anyone want it. Need to fund my next Stax project


----------



## jirams

I seem to recall seeing a comment that the TA-ZH1ES volume knob rotates when the remote is used to control volume.
  
 Mine doesn't.
  
 Doesn't bother me but should it?


----------



## turbo87

The volume knob on the unit does NOT rotate with the remote.


----------



## coke-1

I does not. I asked the same question when I got mine too.


----------



## jirams

thanatosguan on page 8 of this thread reports that it does rotate with remote.
  
 "
_Well the volume knob is click-less like the aperture/iris ring on a cinema lens. Volume level is directly shown on the screen and therefore there's no stop when you've reached infinity. This design is a bit idiosyncratic._
  
_Of course the knob magically rotates when you use the remote : )  Always loved this feature."_


----------



## turbo87

jirams said:


> thanatosguan on page 8 of this thread reports that it does rotate with remote.
> 
> "
> _Well the volume knob is click-less like the aperture/iris ring on a cinema lens. Volume level is directly shown on the screen and therefore there's no stop when you've reached infinity. This design is a bit idiosyncratic._
> ...


 
  
  I just checked mine again and it does not rotate the volume knob with the remote. Maybe an early unit?


----------



## jirams

From what I can see in images of dismantled units, the volume knob assembly looks quite large and reminds me of a motor driven unit.
  
 Maybe if I have a few more glasses of malt tonight mine will start revolving?


----------



## koroshiya8

Definitely doesn't. I used 2 of them and same behavior. I wouldn't want them to rotate too.


----------



## Sarnia

Mine doesn't rotate either.


----------



## Whitigir

Mine does not rotate, and it is not a motorized knob.


----------



## TSAVJason

They don't rotate. In fact using the remote it deliberately doesn't rotate. It's a digital control and the manual rotation is not actually rotating to control. It's there purely as a tactile affect. But if he has one that does it's got a ghost in it doing the rotation for him.


----------



## Whitigir

tsavjason said:


> They don't rotate. In fact using the remote it deliberately doesn't rotate. It's a digital control and the manual rotation is not actually rotating to control. It's there purely as a tactile affect. But if he has one that does it's got a ghost in it doing the rotation for him.



The name is "Casper"


----------



## TSAVJason

whitigir said:


> The name is "Casper"


 Yup Casper!


----------



## purk

Its a digital attenuation hence no reason for the volume knob to rotate.


----------



## Camelogue

Hi. 
I hope you are fine. I'm new in this forum and also new in the HIFI world.
I just adquired this TAZ and need some help.
The amp will not be connected to a PC. I'll use a Yamaha Streamer WXC-50 connected to the TAZ. Which do you consider is the best way to go, Toslink or Coaxial? When you use the digital output from the streamer would you be bypassing the DAC integrated in the YAMAHA?. Of course this would be my intention as I only want to use the streamer for streaming purposes not as a DAC.

Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## TSAVJason

camelogue said:


> Hi.
> I hope you are fine. I'm new in this forum and also new in the HIFI world.
> I just adquired this TAZ and need some help.
> The amp will not be connected to a PC. I'll use a Yamaha Streamer WXC-50 connected to the TAZ. Which do you consider is the best way to go, Toslink or Coaxial? When you use the digital output from the streamer would you be bypassing the DAC integrated in the YAMAHA?. Of course this would be my intention as I only want to use the streamer for streaming purposes not as a DAC.
> ...


 

Using the toslink or coax you'll be feeding and using the DAC inside the Sony ES amplifier/DAC


----------



## asquare3376

camelogue said:


> Hi.
> I hope you are fine. I'm new in this forum and also new in the HIFI world.
> I just adquired this TAZ and need some help.
> The amp will not be connected to a PC. I'll use a Yamaha Streamer WXC-50 connected to the TAZ. Which do you consider is the best way to go, Toslink or Coaxial? When you use the digital output from the streamer would you be bypassing the DAC integrated in the YAMAHA?. Of course this would be my intention as I only want to use the streamer for streaming purposes not as a DAC.
> ...


 
 Coax max supported bitrate - 16/24 - 192Khz
 Toslink max supported bitrate - 16/24 - 96 Khz
  
 So, Coax is your best bet to bypass the internal DAC of your Yamaha streamer and use TA's unless you've already invested in a Toslink cable


----------



## TSAVJason

asquare3376 said:


> Coax max supported bitrate - 16/24 - 192Khz
> Toslink max supported bitrate - 16/24 - 96 Khz
> 
> So, Coax is your best bet to bypass the internal DAC of your Yamaha streamer and use TA's unless you've already invested in a Toslink cable


 Good call on the recommendation


----------



## Camelogue

Thanks a lot. It worked super great with the Coaxial cable.


----------



## Camelogue

tsavjason said:


> Good call on the recommendation



Yes it was. Thanks


----------



## Camelogue

tsavjason said:


> Good call on the recommendation



Fantastic. Thanks


----------



## asquare3376

camelogue said:


> Thanks a lot. It worked super great with the Coaxial cable.


 Happy to help, always!


----------



## Daroid

Just wanted to chime in with an update regarding using USB cables longer than 5 meters and can only thank TSAVJason for making me look into that direction: I went fully mad and went for ethernet cable extension using a second-hand Icron USB 2.0 Ranger 2201 set and can report that this works wonderfully with the ZH1. No issues at all, and excellent build quality on the Icrons using a 7.5 m Lindy CAT6A S/FTP cable. I cannot really talk about "sonic benefits" as I'm sure I will have some unavoidable "new equipment" expectation bias.
  
 Another thing I just noticed was this recent review, which I think is quite spot on - except that I find the remote highly useful: http://www.themasterswitch.com/review-sony-ta-zh1es
  
 BTW: The Oppo UDP-203 + Sony TA-ZH1ES + Senn HD800S made me pull the trigger and compile a list containing $300 worth of CDs/HRx recordings from Reference Recordings after having re-listened to the two recordings I already have from them - definitely going to place that order tomorrow! (... who said record store day is only for vinyl records 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Sarnia

daroid said:


> Another thing I just noticed was this recent review, which I think is quite spot on - except that I find the remote highly useful: http://www.themasterswitch.com/review-sony-ta-zh1es


 
  
 Thanks for the link to the review. Now that's more like i'm hearing compared to the other couple of reviews I've seen online.
  
 Confirmation bias for the win!


----------



## balleklorin

The big question: TA-ZH1ES + MDR-Z1R. High or low gain? What sound best?


----------



## TSAVJason (May 17, 2017)

It's designed to be used in low output but it really becomes a personal choice as to how you want your gain settings


----------



## GoDiSLoVe

https://www.whathifi.com/news/mqa-confirms-sony-music-and-merlin-hi-res-audio-partners

So, maybe native MQA will come to TA-ZH1ES sooner than i thought


----------



## TSAVJason

GoDiSLoVe said:


> https://www.whathifi.com/news/mqa-confirms-sony-music-and-merlin-hi-res-audio-partners
> 
> So, maybe native MQA will come to TA-ZH1ES sooner than i thought



And Sony told me to keep it secret!


----------



## Sarnia

TSAVJason said:


> And Sony told me to keep it secret!


Awesome news, do you know roughly when they'll add it to the TA-ZH1ES?


----------



## TSAVJason

Sarnia said:


> Awesome news, do you know roughly when they'll add it to the TA-ZH1ES?



I won't know until I meet with the engineers again in 2 weeks


----------



## Sarnia

TSAVJason said:


> I won't know until I meet with the engineers again in 2 weeks


Thanks Jason. If you're able to share it then will look forward to hearing more. Strange they should want to keep it a secret, it's great news that should help them sell more of these excellent DAC/Amps.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Sony Music and Sony Electronics are completely different. IMHO, MQA is overrated....


----------



## flyte3333

TSAVJason said:


> I won't know until I meet with the engineers again in 2 weeks



Hi all

Regarding DSD re-mastering, I've seen this in the manual: 

*"[DSD REMASTERING] Converts all PCM signals to DSD signals of 11.2 MHz or 12.2 MHz."*

Is there a way to up-sample native DSD64 files to DSD256 rates, like happens to PCM (as above)?

Cheers


----------



## TSAVJason

Sarnia said:


> Thanks Jason. If you're able to share it then will look forward to hearing more. Strange they should want to keep it a secret, it's great news that should help them sell more of these excellent DAC/Amps.



I'll be happy to update everyone after I get my next update. It's going to be a while before any MQA updates happen. Sony Music, Sony Electronics and Sony Pictures are very different companies and don't appear to have a lot of dialog between them.


----------



## Sarnia

Wow this thread has really died since the forum migration.

Here's an interesting short review of the TA-ZH1ES. I think he likes it....

https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-16-sony-audioquest-headphones-page-2


----------



## Leviticus (May 31, 2017)

Unfortunately I was unable to make good use of my TA lately because my Fostex headphones are currently being repaired by Fostex (for the second time because the first attempt failed).

So I'm stuck with my Sennheiser Momentum headphones which I usually only use when I'm on the go. And using entry-level headphones just doesn't work with TOTL audiophile products...


----------



## TSAVJason

Em2016 said:


> Hi all
> 
> Regarding DSD re-mastering, I've seen this in the manual:
> 
> ...



The only up-sampling it does is from PCM to DSD


----------



## flyte3333

TSAVJason said:


> The only up-sampling it does is from PCM to DSD



Thanks Jason. So DSD64 stays DSD64? And doesn't get converted to DSD256?

I couldn't find this anywhere in the manual.


----------



## TSAVJason

Em2016 said:


> Thanks Jason. So DSD64 stays DSD64? And doesn't get converted to DSD256?
> 
> I couldn't find this anywhere in the manual.


Correct. It leaves most signals alone.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Other then the Z1R, what are other people's favorite headphone to use with it? I am trying the RS1e with it now to see what synergy is like. Made me curious to hear others findings...


----------



## Camelogue

Man, the Pioneer SE Master 1 is Valhalla with this Amp. Huge soundstage, a lot of details  and  the best bass in any open headphone. Is the best combination I have found in any HIFI equipment.


----------



## dotrunghieu

Is Sony TA-ZH1ES A-Class or D-Class Amp?


----------



## TSAVJason

Camelogue said:


> Man, the Pioneer SE Master 1 is Valhalla with this Amp. Huge soundstage, a lot of details  and  the best bass in any open headphone. Is the best combination I have found in any HIFI equipment.



Yup we've listening to the Master all day. It is a good headphone


----------



## nanaholic

dotrunghieu said:


> Is Sony TA-ZH1ES A-Class or D-Class Amp?



It's a hybrid. There's a Class A section in the design which is used to correct for the noise in output of the Class D section, so the final output is the combination of both.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Listening to "Yr Olaf" by Anian. Plugged into the TA-ZH1ES. With both the Utopia and Z1R it's incredible. The TA-ZH1ES is very musical... thanks @sonicdefender for the music suggestion


----------



## TSAVJason

MTMECraig said:


> Listening to "Yr Olaf" by Anian. Plugged into the TA-ZH1ES. With both the Utopia and Z1R it's incredible. The TA-ZH1ES is very musical... thanks @sonicdefender for the music suggestion



Seeing your pic here frightens me


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

haha @TSAVJason  time to see your mug wearing some good cans!! Also I didn't realize it was going to be that big! ha


----------



## TSAVJason

MTMECraig said:


> haha @TSAVJason  time to see your mug wearing some good cans!! Also I didn't realize it was going to be that big! ha



Oh no! I'm far too ugly


----------



## Whitigir

TSAVJason said:


> Oh no! I'm far too ugly


No one is ugly, especially man, just as long as you have 6 packs ^_^


----------



## TSAVJason (Jun 13, 2017)

Whitigir said:


> No one is ugly, especially man, just as long as you have 6 packs ^_^



If you mean by 6 packs, Beer? I'm not in. Too slow. Give me a martini and I'm a happy camper. If you mean a cut stomach, well mine doesn't look like a pilsbury doe boy either and at my age, it doesn't suck!


----------



## Sarnia

MTMECraig said:


> Listening to "Yr Olaf" by Anian. Plugged into the TA-ZH1ES. With both the Utopia and Z1R it's incredible. The TA-ZH1ES is very musical.


On that other headphone forum a couple of people have called the TA-ZH1ES mediocre. I just don't get that at all, I think it's fantastic.


----------



## Leviticus

Sarnia said:


> On that other headphone forum a couple of people have called the TA-ZH1ES mediocre. I just don't get that at all, I think it's fantastic.



Out of curiosity: What forum is that?


----------



## TSAVJason

Sarnia said:


> On that other headphone forum a couple of people have called the TA-ZH1ES mediocre. I just don't get that at all, I think it's fantastic.[/QUOTE
> 
> No accounting for taste I guess.


----------



## TSAVJason

Leviticus said:


> Out of curiosity: What forum is that?



You need to ask?


----------



## Daroid

Sarnia said:


> On that other headphone forum a couple of people have called the TA-ZH1ES mediocre. I just don't get that at all, I think it's fantastic.


As for many other goods in the world, people are paid to spread FUD. In this case it could be because they are afiliated with dealers who cannot carry a certain product because they would need to carry more products from their product line to become authorized dealers. There may be better amps out there, but mediocre and ZH1ES in the same sentence would only be something that a troll with deceased hearing would say. It is so easy to troll people that even the most lowlife person could do it. 

BTW: Not receiving email notfications of new replies, even though I'm subscribed ?!


----------



## TSAVJason

Daroid said:


> As for many other goods in the world, people are paid to spread FUD. In this case it could be because they are afiliated with dealers who cannot carry a certain product because they would need to carry more products from their product line to become authorized dealers. There may be better amps out there, but mediocre and ZH1ES in the same sentence would only be something that a troll with deceased hearing would say. It is so easy to troll people that even the most lowlife person could do it.
> 
> BTW: Not receiving email notfications of new replies, even though I'm subscribed ?!



That happens to me about twice a week. I have to unsubscribe and resubscribe to get notices on a thread. I've sent that anomaly report to Jude already but received no response as to his being aware of this


----------



## kubig123

Did anybody compared the TA-ZH1ES to the Hugo2?


----------



## nc8000

Gave in and ordered one on UK Amazon. Open box was already reduced £300 and another 20% off with a free 30 days trial Prime membership made it almost affordable


----------



## kubig123

nc8000 said:


> Gave in and ordered one on UK Amazon. Open box was already reduced £300 and another 20% off with a free 30 days trial Prime membership made it almost affordable


Great deal!


----------



## banco-sg

just received mine today, can't be happier... really like how it sounds...


----------



## nc8000

Mine arrives Friday


----------



## Sarnia

Looking forward to your impressions, this thread has been a bit quiet recently.

I love the sound, but also the build and functionality. It's built like a tank, everything works perfectly and it's so simple to use.


----------



## nc8000




----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

looks nice and clean! The combo between Z1R and TA-ZH1ES is something special.


----------



## Whitigir

Fancy, pansy setup for sure


----------



## nc8000 (Jul 12, 2017)

Will get even cleaner when I finish ripping all my cd's and can get rid of the cd player and just have the Auralic Aries Mini as source.

I've fallen so in love with the musical sound sig of the Sony Signature components that I've actually put my HE-6 up for sale as I don't even miss it (have almost not used it the last couple of months).


----------



## nc8000

Any opinion on burn in for this amp, is it the same as with the dap's ?


----------



## Whitigir

nc8000 said:


> Any opinion on burn in for this amp, is it the same as with the dap's ?


Just keep a headphones plugged in and play music with it.  It can run 24/7 without warming up


----------



## nc8000

Whitigir said:


> Just keep a headphones plugged in and play music with it.  It can run 24/7 without warming up



Yep that's what I intended anyway but it sounds so good straight out of the box (though since it's an Amazon open box unit I don't know how much play time it has had before).


----------



## Whitigir

nc8000 said:


> Yep that's what I intended anyway but it sounds so good straight out of the box (though since it's an Amazon open box unit I don't know how much play time it has had before).




That is true, TA-ZH1ES doesn't change too dramatically from burn-in


----------



## Leviticus

Whitigir said:


> That is true, TA-ZH1ES doesn't change too dramatically from burn-in



I agree. While Sony's top-of-the-line DAPs improve with usage, the TA doesn't need to be breaked in from my point of view.

@nc800: That is a lovely setup. If you happen to be in Sonderborg anytime soon, you should come to my place and bring your headphones.

Btw, I am now a happy owner of the TH900 MK2 (after owning the MK1). Got the ForzaAudio Hybrid cable, and I think the entire setup looks pretty nice.


----------



## MH01

nc8000 said:


> Gave in and ordered one on UK Amazon. Open box was already reduced £300 and another 20% off with a free 30 days trial Prime membership made it almost affordable



Ha ha I got the other unit from Amazon warehouse on prime day  

Yet to setup though.


----------



## Wikinaut

I love this amp, but I'm currently listening with a Sennheiser HD700. So I'm in the market to upgrade my headphone to something that can actually reproduce all the magic of the TA-ZH1ES. I love the idea of the Audeze LCD-4, but I worry about its spec of 200ohm and requiring 1-4W of amplification power. Even with balanced, the TA only produces 2.4W max. The alternative is the Focal Utopia with only 80ohm, but I really would like to see if I prefer planar over conventional domes. I wonder if anyone has tried driving the LCD-4 with the TA-ZH1ES and what your experience has been, As far as I can tell, nobody in this thread has shared their experience with this combo.

Thanks!


----------



## nc8000

I tried it with HE-6 balanced before I sold them and they required high gain and max volume and were still not really driven properly but I believe they are harder to drive than LCD-4


----------



## purk

The ZH1ES is a great combo IMO.  It does a lot of everything very well.  My only criticism of it is the overly warmth and smoothness nature of the amp.  I just wish the ZH1ES can have a little more dynamic punch and explosiveness compared to better amplifiers.  Still as a whole package, it is an instant winner if you prefer slightly warmer and extremely smooth sounding amp.  I wouldn't recommend driving HE-6 or HEK  for matter out of this amp.  Yes, it can get the job done but not as well compared to bigger and beefier amplifiers.  The HD800 does sound great out of the this amp.  I personally don't like the Z1R & ZH1ES combination.


----------



## Sarnia

purk said:


> The ZH1ES is a great combo IMO.  It does a lot of everything very well.  My only criticism of it is the overly warmth and smoothness nature of the amp.  I just wish the ZH1ES can have a little more dynamic punch and explosiveness compared to better amplifiers.  Still as a whole package, it is an instant winner if you prefer slightly warmer and extremely smooth sounding amp.  I wouldn't recommend driving HE-6 or HEK  for matter out of this amp.  Yes, it can get the job done but not as well compared to bigger and beefier amplifiers.  The HD800 does sound great out of the this amp.  I personally don't like the Z1R & ZH1ES combination.


Thanks Purk, 

I'm intrigued how much more there is to get out of my HEKv2. Out of the TA-ZH1ES they are fantastic to my ears, but I haven't tried them with a different amp.


----------



## purk

What you will get is even greater sense of dynamics.  The HEK V2 is a smooth and polite sounding headphones so pairing with the TA-ZH1ES maybe a little bit too much of a good thing.  I think you will like it a bit more out of the the GS-X MKII or something like the SuSy Dynahi.  In fact, the SuSy Dynahi is likely the very best amp for it along with my ECP DSHA-4/Ravenswood as well as the Liquid Gold.


----------



## banco-sg

Has anyone tried to pair this amp with HD 6xx? 
Or do you have any recommended open back headphone that can complement Z1R + ZH1ES Combo?


----------



## purk

The hd800 is a good choice.


----------



## banco-sg

purk said:


> The hd800 is a good choice.


Thanks, 800 or 800s?


----------



## purk

I would get a used HD800 with the mod to save money.


----------



## banco-sg

purk said:


> I would get a used HD800 with the mod to save money.


I couldn't find used HD800 for around $600 around here, how about HD6xx? Would it be just a waste of money with my current setup?


----------



## purk

I personally think that the HD800 is a superior headphones if your amplification is good enough.  The HD600/650 just not transparent enough though do scale extremely well with balanced amplification.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig (Jul 18, 2017)

purk said:


> I would get a used HD800 with the mod to save money.


I have the HD800 on my head right now listening to the TA-ZH1ES. I don't think it needs modded to sound great with this. obviously they could do the mod them self if they wish...

Edit:This song just came on and I had to come back to thread to say this- "Tilted" by Christine and the Queens sounds fantastic on this combo. It just came on in Tidal. I am  listening to the playlist "Tidal Masters: Indie excellence vol 1"


----------



## purk

MTMECraig said:


> I have the HD800 on my head right now listening to the TA-ZH1ES. I don't think it needs modded to sound great with this. obviously they could do the mod them self if they wish...
> 
> Edit:This song just came on and I had to come back to thread to say this- "Tilted" by Christine and the Queens sounds fantastic on this combo. It just came on in Tidal. I am  listening to the playlist "Tidal Masters: Indie excellence vol 1"



You don't have to mod it for the Sony amp.  However, modding it will make the hd800 a little bit more versatile with other gears.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

purk said:


> You don't have to mod it for the Sony amp.  However, modding it will make the hd800 a little bit more versatile with other gears.


Smart. I get it now and agree with that. Not all amps can take that edge off for sure.


----------



## Whitigir

This post is related to TA-ZH1ES, here

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/c...d-july-15-16-2017.855275/page-8#post-13619352


----------



## Witcher

Sound Signature-wise, how would you say the TA differs from the PHA3?


----------



## banco-sg

Witcher said:


> Sound Signature-wise, how would you say the TA differs from the PHA3?


You can AB them in Wisma Atria, quite similar imo, but TA is much better in everything.


----------



## Whitigir

banco-sg said:


> You can AB them in Wisma Atria, quite similar imo, but TA is much better in everything.


Yes, they are "a category apart"


----------



## Witcher

banco-sg said:


> You can AB them in Wisma Atria, quite similar imo, but TA is much better in everything.


please don't tell me that... my wallet cannot take any more punishment. lol. I am very happy with the PHA3 though. I really hope I don't fall in love with the TA.


----------



## purk (Jul 26, 2017)

Witcher said:


> Sound Signature-wise, how would you say the TA differs from the PHA3?



The TA-ZH1ES is capable of pretty amazing sound.  It is smooth, lush, and warm with very textured bass.  My criticism of this amp is the overly smooth nature of it.  Some time it just feel a tad soft around edge compared to beefier and dedicated amplifier out there.  The PHA is pretty much the best one can get from a portable DAC/Amp device as long as you willing to spend the money on better USB cable, but the TA-ZH1ES can compete with many highend desktop out there.  The improvement is immediate going from PHA-3 to ZH1ES in every department.  Plus the ZH1ES has very high craftsmanship.


----------



## banco-sg

purk said:


> The TA-ZH1ES is capable of pretty amazing sound.  It is smooth, lush, and warm with very textured bass.  My criticism of this amp is the overly smooth nature of it.  Some time it just feel a tad soft around edge compared to beefier and dedicated amplifier out there.  The PHA is pretty much the best one can get from a portable DAC/Amp device as long as you willing to spend the money on better USB cable, but the TA-ZH1ES can compete with many highend desktop out there.  The improvement is immediate going from PHA-3 to ZH1ES in every department.  Plus the ZH1ES has very high craftsmanship.


Pretty much this, but if you pair the TA with brighter cans, it will sounds quite amazing literally.


----------



## purk

banco-sg said:


> Pretty much this, but if you pair the TA with brighter cans, it will sounds quite amazing literally.



I didn't want to say that but it is true.


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> I didn't want to say that but it is true.



I agree, the whole signature chain in synergy will bring too much of warmth and smoothness.  Both TA and 1z will pair better with Utopia...


----------



## purk

Whitigir said:


> I agree, the whole signature chain in synergy will bring too much of warmth and smoothness.  Both TA and 1z will pair better with Utopia...



Just the Z1R and TA-ZH1ES mainly.


----------



## buzzlulu

Interesting discussions.
I currently have both the Utopia and Z1R.  The Utopia representing the best dynamic can available today - and the Z1R for when I need the best CLOSED can.

The Utopia gets used in my 2 channel Naim/Linn system with a Linn KDS providing DAC/streaming duties and the Moon 430 as headphone amplifier.  For portable use the WM1Z gets used with the Utopia (when it is quiet in the house) and the Z1R when I am in a room with my wife who is watching television - closed can needed.

If I wanted a "toy" to play around am I correct in saying the TA-ZH1ES will not bring anything new to the table - considering my current gear?  One idea for it was to keep it on my bedside table - however it sounds like the Z1R out of the WM1Z will be better than if I added the TA into the mix?

While I know it is still early has anyone played with the Utopia and Z1R out of the new Hugo2?  Or does the 1Z make that new toy unneccessary?


----------



## purk (Jul 28, 2017)

buzzlulu said:


> Interesting discussions.
> I currently have both the Utopia and Z1R.  The Utopia representing the best dynamic can available today - and the Z1R for when I need the best CLOSED can.
> 
> The Utopia gets used in my 2 channel Naim/Linn system with a Linn KDS providing DAC/streaming duties and the Moon 430 as headphone amplifier.  For portable use the WM1Z gets used with the Utopia (when it is quiet in the house) and the Z1R when I am in a room with my wife who is watching television - closed can needed.
> ...



Well, the TA-ZH1ES will be great addition to the Utopia.  I think you will find it to be a decent but not a complete upgrade to the WM1Z.  I personally find the ZH1ES and Z1R combination a tad too much of a good thing meaning too much bass and softer attacks but it will be superior in term of details, and soundstage depth & width compared to the ZH1ES.  More power also means greater headroom and dynamics.  All I'm trying to say is the Z1R does sound better pairing with an amp like the GS-X MKII compared to the warm, rich, and smooth amp likes the ZH1ES.


----------



## buzzlulu

That was the big debate I had - Moon 430 vs. GS-X MKII.  I heard the Utopia paired with the GS-X at CanJam NY - sublime.

In the end I went with the Moon 430 to slot into my 2 channel system.  As I have a dedicated listening room my listening chair is about 3-4 meters from the stereo racks.  The remote control on the Moon sealed the deal.  With the GS-X I would have to get up and out of my chair each time I wanted to change the volume!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

banco-sg said:


> Pretty much this, but if you pair the TA with brighter cans, it will sounds quite amazing literally.


HD800 with the TA is boss. I totally agree with this.



buzzlulu said:


> That was the big debate I had - Moon 430 vs. GS-X MKII.  I heard the Utopia paired with the GS-X at CanJam NY - sublime.
> 
> In the end I went with the Moon 430 to slot into my 2 channel system.  As I have a dedicated listening room my listening chair is about 3-4 meters from the stereo racks.  The remote control on the Moon sealed the deal.  With the GS-X I would have to get up and out of my chair each time I wanted to change the volume!



Moon 430 is great with the Utopia... remote would definitely be key for a long distance listener lol. 

These all in one pieces (like TA,430HA, among others...) are starting to fit the bill for a lot of peoples set ups. Nice to see that you can have a ton of options under one chassis and still get quality sound.


----------



## banco-sg

anyone noticed that the TA need to be warmup for at least 30mins to 1 hour before it can reach its potential? idk, could be just my impression


----------



## purk

banco-sg said:


> anyone noticed that the TA need to be warmup for at least 30mins to 1 hour before it can reach its potential? idk, could be just my impression



I doubt it needs that long.  Perhaps just 15 minutes whenever the voltage has stabilized.


----------



## Shure or bust

How is it with items? Any hiss?


----------



## nc8000

Amadeus123 said:


> How is it with items? Any hiss?



It does not hiss with my JH13 from the 4.4 mm


----------



## svinaik

Dear Folks

Any recommendations on the power conditioning / Surge protection for the TA-ZHiES. I have ZX-2 plugged into for the source and Z1R / Just Ear for the Headphones / IEM.

Sincerely appreciate your guidance


----------



## Whitigir

Honestly, just do an upgraded power cord is good enough.  I was able to observe the degradation in USB regenerators on TA-ZH1ES.  I did observed degradation on power conditioners before too, so I am no longer interested in these stuff.  However, upgraded powercord and or running a straight circuitry from your main panel is another story


----------



## musickid

i'm looking at this sony seriously. two things to my fellow members. does it handle 600 ohm beyer type headphones well and does it stream tidal and spotify flawlessly with no issues. many thanks


----------



## TSAVJason

musickid said:


> i'm looking at this sony seriously. two things to my fellow members. does it handle 600 ohm beyer type headphones well and does it stream tidal and spotify flawlessly with no issues. many thanks



I've only tried it with the 1990 & T1 so far in our store ...it worked just fine but I have to bring the gain up a little higher than normal to get them sounding full voice.


----------



## musickid

and tidal and spotify i read before some issues still a problem with macs?


----------



## TSAVJason (Aug 31, 2017)

musickid said:


> and tidal and spotify i read before some issues still a problem with macs?



Great question! Let's see if we can get @HiFiGuy528 in on this. My bet is he's explored just about anything Apple with it

Ad I just got him by text. He'll get in the thread tonight ....I'd like to know more about Apple with it too


----------



## nc8000

musickid said:


> i'm looking at this sony seriously. two things to my fellow members. does it handle 600 ohm beyer type headphones well and does it stream tidal and spotify flawlessly with no issues. many thanks



Don't know about the headphones, but since this amp has no wifi support and no user interface it does not support any form of streaming, it's a pure amp/dac combo


----------



## TSAVJason

nc8000 said:


> Don't know about the headphones, but since this amp has no wifi support and no user interface it does not support any form of streaming, it's a pure amp/dac combo



Exactly! A pretty nice one   Certainly worth looking into as a nice option. Plug in your source and cans and go!


----------



## banco-sg

TSAVJason said:


> I've only tried it with the 1990 & T1 so far in our store ...it worked just fine but I have to bring the gain up a little higher than normal to get them sounding full voice.


I second that, granted i only tried it with my old DT880 250ohm. I needed to set it to high gain and volume to be around -20db to -25db to get the full voice


----------



## Camelogue (Sep 1, 2017)

I have it with the T1 (First Gen), DT990 and Pioneer SE Master 1.
To be honest, it doesn't have a good synergy with the Beyers (a lot of distortion at the mids in both)  but with with the SEM1 is the best sound I have found. For me even better that the Utopia. It really is fantastic.
For streaming I use  my IPad with this cheap and great solution:
https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/wireless_streaming_amplifiers/wxc-50/index.html

Yes. It has Tidal and all the whistles and bells for connectivity. The C version doesn't have amplifier. Is only Streamer and preamp. It costed 250 £ in UK


----------



## musickid

i meant can the sony TA accept tidal and spotify through its usb input like any normal amp/dac from a mac computer? i read there were some issues here.


----------



## kubig123

musickid said:


> i meant can the sony TA accept tidal and spotify through its usb input like any normal amp/dac from a mac computer? i read there were some issues here.



I cannot immagine any problem with that, this is a basic feature of any DAC, if there were issues it could be due to the computer and or drivers.


----------



## Camelogue (Sep 1, 2017)

kubig123 said:


> I cannot immagine any problem with that, this is a basic feature of any DAC, if there were issues it could be due to the computer and or drivers.


Agree. There is no reason for not working.
I rather to use a streamer because I don't want to depend on any computer and. Is very comfortable. You can control everything with your smartphone.


----------



## TSAVJason

musickid said:


> i meant can the sony TA accept tidal and spotify through its usb input like any normal amp/dac from a mac computer? i read there were some issues here.



Absolutely


----------



## TSAVJason (Sep 1, 2017)

Camelogue said:


> I have it with the T1 (First Gen), DT990 and Pioneer SE Master 1.
> To be honest, it doesn't have a good synergy with the Beyers (a lot of distortion at the mids in both)  but with with the SEM1 is the best sound I have found. For me even better that the Utopia. It really is fantastic.
> For streaming I use  my IPad with this cheap and great solution:
> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/wireless_streaming_amplifiers/wxc-50/index.html
> ...



I had to go back to see if my memory was as I thought. Of course I used the newer version of the T1 but other than the typically crispy nature of Beyerdynamics product in general I must stay with my original posts position. If you're ok with the beyerdynamics high frequency presentation in general I see nothing wrong with the pairing at all. I found no midrange distortion even at -12db on the high gain setting. I couldn't take any more level. Maybe it's the version of the T1 you have specifically.


----------



## musickid

what were all these reports of tidal not working with the sony some pages back. something about the sony not recognising the mac output when using tidal etc? that's what im getting at. many thanks.


----------



## purk

Just got done listening to the ZH1ES and the Utopia.  What a great and musical combo!


----------



## Camelogue (Sep 2, 2017)

TSAVJason said:


> I had to go back to see if my memory was as I thought. Of course I used the newer version of the T1 but other than the typically crispy nature of Beyerdynamics product in general I must stay with my original posts position. If you're ok with the beyerdynamics high frequency presentation in general I see nothing wrong with the pairing at all. I found no midrange distortion even at -12db on the high gain setting. I couldn't take any more level. Maybe it's the version of the T1 you have specifically.


Imdeed. It might be the version. Never had the opportunity to hear the new drivers.


----------



## Leviticus

I have a very stupid question: every once in a while I like to send the signal of my TA to the speakers of my Hi-Fi system via a standard cinch cable. 
I have done this before and it always worked perfectly fine. The thing is that this doesn't work right now and I don't know why. 
I

I suspect that this has to do with the chosen output. Maybe my memory plays a trick on me, but wasn't there an output option for external speakers? But now I can only choose between the headphone outputs (XLR4, Unbalanced, Balanced).


----------



## nc8000

Leviticus said:


> I have a very stupid question: every once in a while I like to send the signal of my TA to the speakers of my Hi-Fi system via a standard cinch cable.
> I have done this before and it always worked perfectly fine. The thing is that this doesn't work right now and I don't know why.
> I
> 
> I suspect that this has to do with the chosen output. Maybe my memory plays a trick on me, but wasn't there an output option for external speakers? But now I can only choose between the headphone outputs (XLR4, Unbalanced, Balanced).



You need to go into the menu and set pre out to fixed or variable. At the moment it must be set to off and then it does not come up as an option for outputs


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Sep 3, 2017)

musickid said:


> and tidal and spotify i read before some issues still a problem with macs?



I don't use Spotify so I can't comment on compatibility.

I use Roon and Audirvana Plus with TIDAL integration, zero issues with this DAC/amp.



Shure or bust said:


> How is it with items? Any hiss?



I use Westone W80 which is very very sensitive (110db) and hard to drive (5 Ohms), TA is dead silent on all outputs. I have TWO Sony TA-ZH1ES amps, both works and sounds the same.


----------



## banco-sg (Sep 9, 2017)

i finally tested the amp with utopia today... oh man... i found utopia and zh1es combo is so much better than z1r and zh1es combo.
zh1es eliminates that metallic high in utopia, everything feels so musical, sparkling but natural, detailed but not fatiguing. and this was tested without balanced cable, i can imagine it will be better with balanced.
z1r feels so veiled after i listened to utopia, but well i might still keep the z1r for the day when i just want to relax. z1r is so unoffensive.


----------



## littlexx26

will ifi iusb3.0 improve the SQ of this amp?


----------



## thanatosguan

Quick question. Does TA-ZH1ES have separate grounds in the 4.4 balanced out?


----------



## banco-sg

thanatosguan said:


> Quick question. Does TA-ZH1ES have separate grounds in the 4.4 balanced out?


i believe so


----------



## purk

thanatosguan said:


> Quick question. Does TA-ZH1ES have separate grounds in the 4.4 balanced out?


Yes, it is a true balanced connector.


----------



## nc8000

thanatosguan said:


> Quick question. Does TA-ZH1ES have separate grounds in the 4.4 balanced out?



No. 

It is fully balanced so R+, L+, R-, L- and therefore no ground at all


----------



## thanatosguan

purk said:


> Yes, it is a true balanced connector.



So the channels don't share ground? Wondering only because one of my friends is asking. Seems like "true balanced" signal chain is very rare in the amplifier world.


----------



## nc8000

thanatosguan said:


> So the channels don't share ground? Wondering only because one of my friends is asking. Seems like "true balanced" signal chain is very rare in the amplifier world.



There is no ground in balanced and there are manny balanced amps but naturally many more single ended amps


----------



## Benni-Mac (Sep 14, 2017)

Has anyone compared the Sony TA-ZH1ES with the new(ish) Sennheiser HDV820? It seems the TA-ZH1ES and HD800s work quite well together so this seems an interesting comparison.


----------



## banco-sg

Benni-Mac said:


> Has anyone compared the Sony TA-ZH1ES with the new(ish) Sennheiser HDV820? It seems the TA-ZH1ES and HD800s work quite well together so this seems an interesting comparison.


I havent compared both amp, but i didn't like how HD800s sound via ZH1ES


----------



## Sarnia

banco-sg said:


> I havent compared both amp, but i didn't like how HD800s sound via ZH1ES


I thought the HD800S sounded very good with it. The warmth of the TA-ZH1ES helped to offset the slightly thin nature of the headphones.

I believe @purk thought it was a very good match too.


----------



## banco-sg

Sarnia said:


> I thought the HD800S sounded very good with it. The warmth of the TA-ZH1ES helped to offset the slightly thin nature of the headphones.
> 
> I believe @purk thought it was a very good match too.


Not for me, or maybe i just don't like how HD800s sounds in general. But, HD800s sounds ok when i listened it via neutral amp (ifi idsd BL)


----------



## Daroid

I agree that it would be nice with a comparison with the HDVD820. As I stated in that thread, I think that Sennheiser missed a great opportunity with the late HDVD820, and I honestly couldn't live without a remote. But that obviously doesn't tell anything about the sound.

When people are pairing the ZH1 with the Utopia and apparently love the combination, then it apparently scales well regarding the quality of headphones you combine it with. I think the HD800S + ZH1 is an excellent match. I did manage to try two other higher-end combos within my 14 days of return period - actually mainly due to other concerns I had. Secondly, I think the "warmth" of the ZH1 is overrated - I at least wasn't able to tell a difference between the Violectric V281 that I wasn't sure was down to placebo or just difference in placement/fit issues of the HD800S, which is my main issue with them. I certainly wouldn't want less warmth.


----------



## banco-sg

Daroid said:


> I agree that it would be nice with a comparison with the HDVD820. As I stated in that thread, I think that Sennheiser missed a great opportunity with the late HDVD820, and I honestly couldn't live without a remote. But that obviously doesn't tell anything about the sound.
> 
> When people are pairing the ZH1 with the Utopia and apparently love the combination, then it apparently scales well regarding the quality of headphones you combine it with. I think the HD800S + ZH1 is an excellent match. I did manage to try two other higher-end combos within my 14 days of return period - actually mainly due to other concerns I had. Secondly, I think the "warmth" of the ZH1 is overrated - I at least wasn't able to tell a difference between the Violectric V281 that I wasn't sure was down to placebo or just difference in placement/fit issues of the HD800S, which is my main issue with them. I certainly wouldn't want less warmth.


Oh yes, i do love how my Utopia sounds with ZH1ES. They are just amazing.


----------



## purk (Sep 15, 2017)

The ZH1ES is one very fine performer as long as you don't plan to drive those inefficient Orthos and overly warmth and bassy headphones.  I still think that the HD800s can go a little further with beefier amplifiers compared to the ZH1ES but the ZH1ES does work really well with both the Utopia and HD800.  I personally don't enjoy the Z1R & ZH1ES pairing - too warmth and bassy of a combo for me.


----------



## banco-sg

purk said:


> The ZH1ES is one very fine performer as long as you don't plan to drive those inefficient Orthos and overly warmth and bassy headphones.  I still think that the HD800s can go a little further with beefier amplifiers compared to the ZH1ES *but the ZH1ES doesn't work really well with both the Utopia and HD800*.  I personally don't enjoy the Z1R & ZH1ES pairing - too warmth and bassy of a combo for me.



Did you mean they do work well with ZH1ES?


----------



## purk

Yes, I do the ZH1ES + Utopia & HD800 combo.  Out of the two phones, I would say the ZH1ES does work slightly better with the Utopia than the HD800 because it is easier to drive.


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> Just got done listening to the ZH1ES and the Utopia.  What a great and musical combo!



Agreed! The ZH1ES really does make a number of headphones perform very well. It scales nicely. It's not just an improvement for the Utopia. Its very nice with Sennheiser 800/800S, Hifiman HEK (both versions) Audeze headphones including the LCD4 love to be fed by the Sony amp/DAC as well.  I haven't tried the Abyss but what I have tried seems to pair nicely. 

One thing I do appreciate about the ZH1ES is that it allows for every streaming choice I've tried. I haven't tried all service providers or software delivery systems but the most common seem to get along well with this amp/DAC ....good for Sony! 

For those asking for comparisons between the ZH1ES and the Sennheiser 820, they are different animals altogether. The 820 is a vast improvement over the 800 but it's still a clinical sounding piece of electronics. Personally I find the ZH1ES warm - detailed and inviting with lots of products while the Sennheiser 820 might be a good call for those that find their headphones a little too heavy in bass presentation.  Hope this helps a little. 

One last thing, the noise floor on the ZH1ES is so low its crazy. The only amps I've heard that quiet is the Cavalli LAu and McIntosh MHA150. I'm sure there are others but I haven't heard them personally yet.


----------



## purk

@TSAVJason 
I agreed for the most part but I find the HEK to require much more power to really reach their potential. The only thing that I like to fault the ZH1ES beside the power rating (not much of an issue unless you want to drive the HEK, Susvara, HE6 or K1000) is the slight softness around the edge.  Still, the ZH1ES is very refined sounding with great sense of soundstage.  Really hard to go wrong when you factoring build quality, ease of operation, multiple output selections, and all-in-one system.


----------



## banco-sg

purk said:


> @TSAVJason
> I agreed for the most part but I find the HEK to require much more power to really reach their potential. The only thing that I like to fault the ZH1ES beside the power rating (not much of an issue unless you want to drive the HEK, Susvara, HE6 or K1000) is the slight softness around the edge.  Still, the ZH1ES is very refined sounding with great sense of soundstage.  Really hard to go wrong when you factoring build quality, ease of operation, multiple output selections, and all-in-one system.


and the remote... lol


----------



## Whitigir

And the Line Out as pre-amp


banco-sg said:


> and the remote... lol


----------



## TSAVJason

Whitigir said:


> And the Line Out as pre-amp



Hahahaha you two crack me up!!! I'm likely not as loud of a listener as Purk or as loaded up with needs as the two of you as I like to stay with the KISS thinking and no I don't mean the band


----------



## purk

TSAVJason said:


> Hahahaha you two crack me up!!! I'm likely not as loud of a listener as Purk or as loaded up with needs as the two of you as I like to stay with the KISS thinking and no I don't mean the band



Not about the loudness Jason but a beefier and more powerful amplifier will also sound more dynamic at lower volume.    I love the ZH1ES and listening to it at work as we speak.


----------



## Whitigir

TSAVJason said:


> Hahahaha you two crack me up!!! I'm likely not as loud of a listener as Purk or as loaded up with needs as the two of you as I like to stay with the KISS thinking and no I don't mean the band


Since the day I got me a Utopia, I think I am getting more deaf overtime....


----------



## TSAVJason

Whitigir said:


> Since the day I got me a Utopia, I think I am getting more deaf overtime....



It's a great Friday! You 2 guys are always a pleasure. Purk I'm not experiencing a lack of fullness or body in the HEKv2 or the Audeze at all, so the only thing I could think of is you like to listen louder.

And Vince be careful, you only get one set of ears brother.


----------



## purk (Sep 15, 2017)

The pleasure is ours to Jason!!  My comments regarding the HEKv2 and ZH1ES was compared to more powerful amps such as the GS-X MKII, SuSy Dynahi, ECP DSHA-3/4, or Liquid Gold.  So the combo is still very good but not the vest best.  Considering the price, build quality, and features, the ZH1ES is a completed package.  Surprisingly the best pairing for the ZH1ES is Sony very own Sony Qualia 010.  The ZH1ES compliments the Q010 perfectly.  I'm grinning ear to ear.


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> The pleasure is ours to Jason!!  My comments regarding the HEKv2 and ZH1ES was compared to more powerful amps such as the GS-X MKII, SuSy Dynahi, ECP DSHA-3/4, or Liquid Gold.  So the combo is still very good but not the vest best.  Considering the price, build quality, and features, the ZH1ES is a completed package.  Surprisingly the best pairing for the ZH1ES is Sony very own Sony Qualia 010.  The ZH1ES compliments the Q010 perfectly.  I'm grinning ear to ear.



Well those are all good amps too. You know I have a special love for my personal LAu


----------



## buzzlulu

Hey Jason
What is your take on the ZH1ES with the Z1R's?
I read someone say they thought he WM1Z did a better job than Sony's desktop amp with them

Gregg


----------



## nc8000

buzzlulu said:


> Hey Jason
> What is your take on the ZH1ES with the Z1R's?
> I read someone say they thought he WM1Z did a better job than Sony's desktop amp with them
> 
> Gregg



I enjoy them from both


----------



## TSAVJason

buzzlulu said:


> Hey Jason
> What is your take on the ZH1ES with the Z1R's?
> I read someone say they thought he WM1Z did a better job than Sony's desktop amp with them
> 
> Gregg



1 if by land 2 if by sea. How are you Gregg?  It's difficult to say why people feel that way but to each his own ....right? 

Both play well with the Z1R. I think it's just a preference thing. It's sort of like the complaint about the Focal cable, some love the extra length and others absolutely hate it. I can't explain it. I mean it's like people don't really know what they are buying until it shows up on their door step and plug it in. I'd suggest finding a relationship like you have.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

I just talked on the Z1R thread about the TA-ZH1ES, and think its a perfect combo... I first listened to it with the HD800 (how I like to listen to all gear first) and from that had a bias that the TA-ZH1ES would be too warm for the Z1R. I then listen to that combo and pretty much said "wow" in my head. That amp really pulls everything out of the Z1R. For me it was perfect synergy. There is another synergistic combo that it reminded me of a lot but since we don't sell the whole combo I am not at liberty to say what it is lol.

Now the HD800s is something that I cant remember now how I felt about it. It really all comes down to personal preference exactly as  @TSAVJason said! I wish we still had our demo of it. We have since sold it, and not sure what we have left. Pittsburgh foot traffic for a piece like that is not what its like in other areas. It is easily worth demoing though if you can find a place near you!


----------



## TSAVJason

MTMECraig said:


> I just talked on the Z1R thread about the TA-ZH1ES, and think its a perfect combo... I first listened to it with the HD800 (how I like to listen to all gear first) and from that had a bias that the TA-ZH1ES would be too warm for the Z1R. I then listen to that combo and pretty much said "wow" in my head. That amp really pulls everything out of the Z1R. For me it was perfect synergy. There is another synergistic combo that it reminded me of a lot but since we don't sell the whole combo I am not at liberty to say what it is lol.
> 
> Now the HD800s is something that I cant remember now how I felt about it. It really all comes down to personal preference exactly as  @TSAVJason said! I wish we still had our demo of it. We have since sold it, and not sure what we have left. Pittsburgh foot traffic for a piece like that is not what its like in other areas. It is easily worth demoing though if you can find a place near you!



Pittsburgh needs to wake up and drop by Music To My Ear to audition gear and develop a relationship with a great customer service based retailer.


----------



## banco-sg

MTMECraig said:


> I just talked on the Z1R thread about the TA-ZH1ES, and think its a perfect combo... I first listened to it with the HD800 (how I like to listen to all gear first) and from that had a bias that the TA-ZH1ES would be too warm for the Z1R. I then listen to that combo and pretty much said "wow" in my head. That amp really pulls everything out of the Z1R. For me it was perfect synergy. There is another synergistic combo that it reminded me of a lot but since we don't sell the whole combo I am not at liberty to say what it is lol.
> 
> Now the HD800s is something that I cant remember now how I felt about it. It really all comes down to personal preference exactly as  @TSAVJason said! I wish we still had our demo of it. We have since sold it, and not sure what we have left. Pittsburgh foot traffic for a piece like that is not what its like in other areas. It is easily worth demoing though if you can find a place near you!


We have the same sentiment, initially i felt that ZH1ES and Z1R is tad too warm and too laid back, but after more hours, i do understand what sony is trying to achieve with their signature series, which i really appreciate. 
the sony combo never harsh and just fun, engaging, not tiring.


----------



## nc8000

Yes for just enjoying and listening to the music rather than listening to the gear or analyzing the music


----------



## UncleMike

As a relative newcomer to Headfi, I have been trying to decide on an amp and or amp/dac for my Utopia headphones.
Is the Sony considered an excellent solution for the Utopias?  I think I would prefer solid state as I don't want to deal with tubes but want the best sound quality I can get.

Unfortunately, I have little available locally to audition.

Reading through this discussion, It seems many folks like the Sony.
Appreciate your thoughts.

Uncle Mike


----------



## ichibahnwrx

I'm considering selling my TA-ZH1ES. I am looking for a more analogue/lively sound. The Sony sounds pretty dull with my A8X monitors, and I have been eyeing a Multibit balanced Schiit for years. My source music is almost never DSD, but plenty of hi-res stuff. I have no idea what I am going to use for a HP amp in its place. I have small power requirements, but I want to stay balanced and keep a large soundstage. I am not in love with the idea of tubes, but I have looked into a Mjolnir 2. Any thoughts from you all?


----------



## Gibraltar

ichibahnwrx said:


> I'm considering selling my TA-ZH1ES. I am looking for a more analogue/lively sound. The Sony sounds pretty dull with my A8X monitors, and I have been eyeing a Multibit balanced Schiit for years. My source music is almost never DSD, but plenty of hi-res stuff. I have no idea what I am going to use for a HP amp in its place. I have small power requirements, but I want to stay balanced and keep a large soundstage. I am not in love with the idea of tubes, but I have looked into a Mjolnir 2. Any thoughts from you all?



The Holo Spring DAC might be just what you're looking for, and it has R2R ladders for both PCM and DSD. If you don't need DSD it looks like Holo will be releasing a mid-range model that only does PCM and has a built-in headphone amp. Details on the last page of that thread. I had the Spring in house for a month or so and 'analog and lively' is almost exactly how I would describe the sound.


----------



## TennRed

Just ordered the H1.  Currently have pha 3 and Z7 with UAPP on my Pixel XL.  What can I expect?


----------



## purk

TennRed said:


> Just ordered the H1.  Currently have pha 3 and Z7 with UAPP on my Pixel XL.  What can I expect?


Great sound of course.  However, the ZH1ES deserves a much better headphones than th Z7.  You probably can't go back to the PHA-3 afterward.


----------



## TennRed

purk said:


> Great sound of course.  However, the ZH1ES deserves a much better headphones than th Z7.  You probably can't go back to the PHA-3 afterward.



Im aware that the Z7 is not on the H1's level.  I have to upgrade on piece at a time.  H1 vs Pha 3?


----------



## purk

TennRed said:


> Im aware that the Z7 is not on the H1's level.  I have to upgrade on piece at a time.  H1 vs Pha 3?



As great the PHA3 is, it is still a portable device so space is limited for good parts.  The ZH1ES is a solid mid highend DAC/AMP combo and a very good one at that.  The jump between the PHA3 to ZH1ES will be substantial in all sonic departments.  The ZH1ES's best quality is its very smooth and holographic presentation.  Bass is textured and go very deep.  The only drawback is that it can be overly smooth and lack dynamic punch some times.  Still, it offers a very refined presentation in one very gorgeous package..


----------



## TennRed (Oct 31, 2017)

Wow!  Just wow.


----------



## TennRed

Guy selling “ Demo” units on eBay for $1529.  I got a brand new sealed unit.  What a great deal.


----------



## TennRed

Streaming from Tidal at 24 bits.  Nice!


----------



## Lemieux66

Well, I've got the WM1A and the Z1R arrived today, now all I need is the Signature amp!

A question though - If I connect the TA-ZH1ES to my laptop with USB, can I just use MediaGo to play tracks into the amp without having to go through complex setup procedures?


----------



## asquare3376

Lemieux66 said:


> Well, I've got the WM1A and the Z1R arrived today, now all I need is the Signature amp!
> 
> A question though - If I connect the TA-ZH1ES to my laptop with USB, can I just use MediaGo to play tracks into the amp without having to go through complex setup procedures?


Sure you can use MediaGo. To enhance performance you can choose bit perfect playback from settings. I don't remember where exactly it is but if you can't find it, message me


----------



## Lemieux66

asquare3376 said:


> Sure you can use MediaGo. To enhance performance you can choose bit perfect playback from settings. I don't remember where exactly it is but if you can't find it, message me



Thanks!

Btw are you connecting the HAP-ZH1ES into the TA-ZH1ES via USB? I was under the impression only the analogue outputs could output music from this unit?


----------



## asquare3376

Lemieux66 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Btw are you connecting the HAP-ZH1ES into the TA-ZH1ES via USB? I was under the impression only the analogue outputs could output music from this unit?


With the latest firmware update, you can use the usb port to output music as well. You have to select this under settings.


----------



## S-O8 (Dec 14, 2017)

I've skim read all the pages of this thread over the last few days and was pleased to see my experiences of this amp are shared by others.  I've only had it a week but paired to Focal Utopia's it is stunning !   Over 100 hrs on both now but tbh after about 6 hours it sounded the same as now to my ears.

I had a Pioneer U-05 and that was great but the Utopia's seemed too bright with it.  I had tried the Utopia's on the Sony amp before buying them and knew if I got them it would have to be a double purchase.   The credit card took a massive hit but I am really happy and the other headphones I have just don't cut it compared. 

It will be bye bye to Grado GS1000e's, Oppo PM-2's and Audeze EL-8's ... all of which sounded great on the Pioneer but sound veiled and foggy in comparison to the Utopia / Sony combo.

*** Edited to add that after 200+ hours the other headphones all sound great too - especially the Oppo PM-2 ... just shows - to me - that a good burn in helps.  Needless to say, the Focal's are sounding even better ! ***


----------



## Boogie7910

I have a Jot and Gumby Schiit stack.  How does that compare to the TA?


----------



## Lemieux66

Anyone using the ZH1ES with the Signature Series DAPs and Z1R headphones? I've got the WM1A and the Z1R and wonder whether its worth getting the dac/amp?


----------



## S-O8 (Dec 14, 2017)

Do people leave the upsampling modes on or off - DSEE HX and DSD RM ?   

Out of the box they are on but I wondered what people's views are - do they make a difference or not ?   I am listening with Focal Utopia's and tbh the unit and these headphones as they are with the settings to 'on' sounds great !

Just wondered what others do ....


----------



## zykorex

How does the Sound signature of ZH1ES compare to WM1Z? Sorry if this has been asked before. I wasn't able to find an answer through a search.


----------



## gsiu33

Any good USB cable recommend for Notebook connect to the AMP?

Thanks


----------



## S-O8

gsiu33 said:


> Any good USB cable recommend for Notebook connect to the AMP?
> 
> Thanks



I'm using a Vertere D-Fi usb cable from my MacBook Pro to the amp.  Very good but costly.


----------



## gsiu33

S-O8 said:


> I'm using a Vertere D-Fi usb cable from my MacBook Pro to the amp.  Very good but costly.


Hi S-O8,

I just checked their web site, seems no online ordering and no pricing.

How much does it cost? I just received the Amp this afternoon and it is my first time to use Win-notebook as a source, so not familiar with the brand names of the USB cable.

Thanks

gs


----------



## Wikinaut (Dec 24, 2017)

Why not try the included USB cable and see if you dislike it. I haven't noticed any issues with it. My setup is Surface Pro -> Surface Hub -> Amp -> Focal Elear.


----------



## gsiu33

Wikinaut said:


> Why not try the included USB cable and see if you dislike it. I haven't noticed any issues with it. My setup is Surface Pro -> Surface Hub -> Amp -> Focal Elear.


I am using the stock USB cable, pre out to my home audio system, the sound is awesome. Just would like to see if there is significant improvement  by replacing the stock USB cable.

Cheers and Merry X'mas to all.

gs


----------



## S-O8

gsiu33 said:


> Hi S-O8,
> 
> I just checked their web site, seems no online ordering and no pricing.
> 
> ...



They do a single cable and a double which separates the power from the signal.   I think it is about £80 for a one metre single and roughly double for the double wired one.  I got a double at 2m long which was £240.  Prob overkill but I'm happy.


----------



## TennRed

gsiu33 said:


> Any good USB cable recommend for Notebook connect to the AMP?
> 
> Thanks


I’m using Audioquest Carbon.  I was skeptical but I must admit there was a clearly identifiable difference between the Carbon and the included cable.


----------



## S-O8

I bought the D-Fi because I am using the amp with Focal Clear's and Utopia's ... so wanted to make sure even if there was not much difference to a std cable I was getting the most out of what I have.   I also have the single version of the D-Fi and tbh I don't hear any difference between the single and double with Tidal Masters ... both are great though I have not done a strict back to back test as cba


----------



## gsiu33

S-O8 said:


> They do a single cable and a double which separates the power from the signal.   I think it is about £80 for a one metre single and roughly double for the double wired one.  I got a double at 2m long which was £240.  Prob overkill but I'm happy.


Thanks S-O8.

How do you order it? Cannot find ordering at the web site.


----------



## S-O8

gsiu33 said:


> Thanks S-O8.
> 
> How do you order it? Cannot find ordering at the web site.


I bought mine from Audio Sanctuary in New Malden, UK.  

https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/


----------



## Cognacbrown

Has anyone compared the ZH1 to the Woo audio WA8? I’ve been using the WA8 for a couple of months but just placed an order for the ZH1 today. I have the Z1R and the HEXv2. I do enjoy both HP when played through the WA8. Different presentation. I bought the WA8 after a fair amount audition vs the Hugo2.


----------



## Cognacbrown

I’ve had a few days on burning in the ZH1 and made some interesting comparisons with the WA8. Over the days of burning in the ZH1, its one amp which managed to highlight some of weak areas i have upstream. The initial listen to the ZH1 (primarily with Z1R) was mediocre - soft sounding and “blurry” even when volume is turned up. Then i took the following steps which each yielded significant improvements to my ears. 

1) Swapped the headphone cable from unbalance phono plug to the Sony Kimber 4.4mm balanced cable. Improved soundstage and separation. 
2) Tried the different USB cables i have and finally settled in the Wireworld Platinum cable. The amp is so sensitive to quality upstream. Also discovered one of the well known cable brand has some weird sound signature (probably due to inferior termination). Diffused soundstage and soft dynamics. Didn’t notice it before. 
3) Added the LPS power supply to the Auralic Aries mini streamer - superb improvement in all areas especially the bass. Strongly recommend this.
4) Added the UpTone USB Regen. I would strongly recommend this. I thought having a TOTL USB cable would suffice but the Regen is able to clean up the sound so much. It sounds so much more musical. Initially i added this at the streamer end. I then moved this to ZH1 end and i thought it further improved the sound by way of clarity and balance. Adds stronger vocals.
5) Swap the stock power cable to Naim Power Lite and the cheap power distributor to the Wireworld Matrix II.

The overall sound (after all the steps taken) has been elevated so much. In a way I feel this is what a good DAC/AMP should do. Its transaparent enough to show how sound can be improved. I’m so pleased with the Uptone USB Regen (bought a while back) in this setup that I’ve just ordered the newer ISO Regen together with the Ultra Caps LPS. Its now a setup I very much look forward to long listening sessions. No glaring highs but superb resolutions and balanced tonality with excellent textures on instruments and vocals. Who knows... might want to try the UltraRendu at some stage. But at the moment, I think I prefer the Auralic package - the DS Lightning app is very useful. UI for Tidal is excellent through the DS Lightning. The Ultra Rendu would require a separate PC running Roon or some other music app. Ive the J River but hardly use it nowadays. Prefer to stay away from PCs - too complicated.

Will post impressions on the comparison with WA8 later and maybe in the WA8 thread....lets see.


----------



## nc8000

That is essentially my rig as well (a different usb cable abd no regen) and I’m extremely happy with it with a 2TB hdd in the Auralic.


----------



## Headampbro

Wondering has anyone ever try this AKG K1000 with Sony TA impression?


----------



## purk

Headampbro said:


> Wondering has anyone ever try this AKG K1000 with Sony TA impression?



I don't think it is a good match.  The K1000 is notoriously difficult to drive, I would get a much beefier amp to drive it.


----------



## buzzlulu

I am using Utopia's and Z1R's with my WM1Z.
Has anyone done an in-depth comparison between the WM1Z and TA?
I recall reading one report which stated the difference was not that big ie not worth the exercise


----------



## Drumonron

Found a good deal on a Sony TA-ZH1ES - demo unit with 1hour on it for 1500.00 - pulled the trigger for 
use with my Z1R.


----------



## buzzlulu

Let us know how you like it - (dog)(ha ha)

PS they claim that the units are new and not really demo.  Let us know how you make out


----------



## jcdreamer

buzzlulu said:


> Let us know how you like it - (dog)(ha ha)
> 
> PS they claim that the units are new and not really demo.  Let us know how you make out


I got one a couple of weeks ago dog, how did that song by Madonna go? Something about being touched for the very first time.


----------



## buzzlulu

And how was Razor - "Dog's" - service?  (as that was the "dog" I was referring to)

 Factory new as they are advertising?  Prompt shipping?

And more importantly - how do you like it?


----------



## jcdreamer (Jan 22, 2018)

I know precisely which dog you were refering to. I've made purchases from him before. I was just trying to use a little discretion. I wish he carried more different brands.
My 'demo' unit was shipped the next day by USPS priority mail and I received it a few days later in pristine condition factory sealed. I couldn't be happier with the purchase.


----------



## Drumonron (Jan 22, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> And how was Razor - "Dog's" - service?  (as that was the "dog" I was referring to)
> 
> Factory new as they are advertising?  Prompt shipping?
> 
> And more importantly - how do you like it?



Pulled the trigger just b4 posting - will let you all know how it is after receiving it.  I have many many headphones but this will be my
first attempt at trying a balanced amp - and I need nothing more - will use the sony mdr-z1r with it's included balanced cable.  For SE, I look forward to trying the HD800, HD700, HD600 on it and
my Grado RS-1, HF-1 and HF-2s.

As for the Sony MDR-Z1R - they are legend - so detailed and yet lush - they deserve a signature amp/Dac.


----------



## jcdreamer

A year ago I was shopping for the Focal Utopia. I first audition it with WM1Z feeding the TA and I found the sound heavenly. I bought the Utopia but always missed the way it sounded with the Sony TA and WM1Z. I've had the TA for two weeks now and I think I need the WM1Z.

One other note, the TA-ZH1ES does not come close to driving my HE1000 correctly.


----------



## buzzlulu

I have a 1Z which I use in a portable scenario.  I also have a Moon 430HA which is connected to my two channel system and allows me to use my Linn DS steamer as source.

For some reason I am intrigued by the TA as an additional amplifier - perhaps on a bedside table.  In that case I would not use a 1Z connected to it but rather an iPhone running TIDAL so I could stream and check out new releases.  There is also the obvious synergy with the Z1R I already own and I have heard it also pairs well with my Utopias

Is the TA wasted with an iPhone running TIDAL rather than a 1Z running ripped files?
It sort of illustrates the one feature lacking in the 1Z imho - the inability to access the streaming services.

And then once again - am I spinning my wheels with a TA as the 1Z on its own is close enough?


----------



## Lemieux66 (Jan 22, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> I have a 1Z which I use in a portable scenario.  I also have a Moon 430HA which is connected to my two channel system and allows me to use my Linn DS steamer as source.
> 
> For some reason I am intrigued by the TA as an additional amplifier - perhaps on a bedside table.  In that case I would not use a 1Z connected to it but rather an iPhone running TIDAL so I could stream and check out new releases.  There is also the obvious synergy with the Z1R I already own and I have heard it also pairs well with my Utopias
> 
> ...



You've touched on my dilemma here. I have a 1A and Z1R - which is a great value combo, relatively speaking - but keep hankering for the TA-ZH1ES...but also the 1Z! They are both such cool devices.

Selling the 1A would help fund the 1Z - which is a lustworthy piece - but the TA would be more useful as it allows other sources to connect for eg. watching movies or streaming audio from my laptop - or even vinyl playback.

I did actually borrow a TA briefly and connected my turntable and tube phono stage to it, running into the analogue input and upsampling to DSD256. It sounded superb via my Z1R and Harbeth speakers.

It would seem logical that the headphone output of the TA is better quality than the output of the 1Z, seeing as there are no compromises due to size and battery characteristics which MIGHT, in theory, subtly hamper the 1Z. Having said that, the output from the 1A is already superb with the Z1R, so maybe just go with your heart! 

PS. on a side note, I find myself not using my main speaker system anymore (apart from movie sound use) since I got the Z1R to go with my 1A. I have a Leben CS300XS here which I used to use with LCD3 and my current Harbeth speakers, but I keep thinking of moving totally over to headphones. I don't use the Leben with my Z1R (although they match well), so the TA-ZH1ES might be a good all round choice as I can use it at my desk in the same way I currently do with my 1A/Z1R.


----------



## Cognacbrown

I’m currently feeding my TA with a Roon endpoint. Playing well recorded (including DSD) classical music. In audio bliss. TA scales very well as you upgrade your source. I’m currently using Auralic Aries Mini (upgraded linear power supply) + UpTone Regen (to clean up USB signal). 

Planning to upgrade further with HQplayer to upsample source and maybe upgrade Auralic to SOtM SMS200ultra + power supply. The upgrade never ends. But all these for a fraction of WM1Z......


----------



## asquare3376

jcdreamer said:


> I got one a couple of weeks ago dog, how did that song by Madonna go? Something about being touched for the very first time.


Like a Virgin


----------



## nc8000

Cognacbrown said:


> I’m currently feeding my TA with a Roon endpoint. Playing well recorded (including DSD) classical music. In audio bliss. TA scales very well as you upgrade your source. I’m currently using Auralic Aries Mini (upgraded linear power supply) + UpTone Regen (to clean up USB signal).
> 
> Planning to upgrade further with HQplayer to upsample source and maybe upgrade Auralic to SOtM SMS200ultra + power supply. The upgrade never ends. But all these for a fraction of WM1Z......



X2 for the TA plus Auralic combo. Have the upgraded power supply but not the Regen.


----------



## GoDiSLoVe

jcdreamer said:


> A year ago I was shopping for the Focal Utopia. I first audition it with WM1Z feeding the TA and I found the sound heavenly. I bought the Utopia but always missed the way it sounded with the Sony TA and WM1Z. I've had the TA for two weeks now and I think I need the WM1Z.
> 
> One other note, the TA-ZH1ES does not come close to driving my HE1000 correctly.



I currently own TA, WM1Z and Z1R.  But every now and then I have the urge to purchase Utopia but can not justify it 
Another alternative is to buy an open back headphone (HD800S) rather than getting a 2nd closed.

Did you have chance to compare Z1R vs Utopia with TA+WM1Z set-up?  I'd like to hear your impressions if you did.


----------



## buzzlulu

Cognacbrown said:


> I’m currently feeding my TA with a Roon endpoint. Playing well recorded (including DSD) classical music. In audio bliss. TA scales very well as you upgrade your source. I’m currently using Auralic Aries Mini (upgraded linear power supply) + UpTone Regen (to clean up USB signal).
> 
> Planning to upgrade further with HQplayer to upsample source and maybe upgrade Auralic to SOtM SMS200ultra + power supply. The upgrade never ends. But all these for a fraction of WM1Z......




Okay maybe you can save me some time researching this out. I also run a ROON server on a downstairs iMac. I'm looking to possibly put the TA on a bedside table upstairs. Is there a way to wirelessly stream from the iMac downstairs (running Roon) to the upstairs TA ? Is the Auralic unit Wifi capable in that it could receive a wireless Roon stream from the downstairs iMac?


----------



## Drumonron (Jan 22, 2018)

FYI, there is a Z1R "demo unit" for
 

 
$1,548.00

IMHO, definitely worth this amount.  YMMV.


----------



## Cognacbrown

Yes the Auralic Aries Mini is WIFI enabled. I did try it initially. It was good as I remember. I didn’t have any problems with it but I subsequently ran a long CAT 7 cable to Ensure max stability and sound quality. Roon recommends LAN connections where possible. 

I’ve order my SOtM SMS200 ultra so I’m eagerly waiting to do some comparison.


----------



## buzzlulu

buzzlulu said:


> Okay maybe you can save me some time researching this out. I also run a ROON server on a downstairs iMac. I'm looking to possibly put the TA on a bedside table upstairs. Is there a way to wirelessly stream from the iMac downstairs (running Roon) to the upstairs TA ? Is the Auralic unit Wifi capable in that it could receive a wireless Roon stream from the downstairs iMac?



Other than the Auralic Mini are there any other units I should be looking at, WiFi capable, which can connect to the TA and grab ROON from my downstairs iMAC


----------



## Witcher

Does anyone know if I can use the line out to pass a signal thru another device before sending it back into the TAZH1ES through the RCA In?


----------



## nc8000

Witcher said:


> Does anyone know if I can use the line out to pass a signal thru another device before sending it back into the TAZH1ES through the RCA In?



I dont think that will work. The amp can only have one active input at a time and this will be the signal that after processing by the amp will be send out from the line out. I assume you want to have the digital signal in then pass it on to somethinh like an equalizer and then send that signal back to the amp. To get that signal to the equalizer has to have digital in selected as input. If you the select RCA in that is the signal the amp receives and passes out and no longer the digital input signal


----------



## S-O8

I have Focal Utopia and Clear going into my Sony TA-ZH1ES ... but wonder how good the Z1R would sound compared to what I have ... does anyone have the Focal's and a Z1R that can comment ?


----------



## zykorex

S-O8 said:


> I have Focal Utopia and Clear going into my Sony TA-ZH1ES ... but wonder how good the Z1R would sound compared to what I have ... does anyone have the Focal's and a Z1R that can comment ?



This is purely my opinion so please take it with a grain of salt. I extensively demo'ed both Utopia and Z1R with the TA, and found Utopia to be the best match. It was so good that I ended up selling my other gear to get the combo. 

For the comparison, I thought Z1R sounded a little congested with less treble air compared to the Utopia. To my ears, there was almost a veil in the Z1R. Both were connected through balanced connectors.


----------



## buzzlulu

zykorex said:


> This is purely my opinion so please take it with a grain of salt. I extensively demo'ed both Utopia and Z1R with the TA, and found Utopia to be the best match. It was so good that I ended up selling my other gear to get the combo.
> 
> For the comparison, I thought Z1R sounded a little congested with less treble air compared to the Utopia. To my ears, there was almost a veil in the Z1R. Both were connected through balanced connectors.



Have you had the chance to listen to the Z1R through the WM1Z?  If so did the TA improve upon the 1Z?


----------



## GoDiSLoVe

buzzlulu said:


> Have you had the chance to listen to the Z1R through the WM1Z?  If so did the TA improve upon the 1Z?


I have all 3.  I can easily say that TA definitely improves the sound.  I almost never listen Z1R through WM1Z but only through TA.
I can write a longer review but long story in short, TA brings out everything out of Z1R.
Is the difference worth 2200$? well....  only you can answer that i guess.


----------



## zykorex

buzzlulu said:


> Have you had the chance to listen to the Z1R through the WM1Z?  If so did the TA improve upon the 1Z?


Sorry I did not. The only test I did with the 1Z was when it was connected to the TA through the walkman port.


----------



## Witcher

nc8000 said:


> I dont think that will work. The amp can only have one active input at a time and this will be the signal that after processing by the amp will be send out from the line out. I assume you want to have the digital signal in then pass it on to somethinh like an equalizer and then send that signal back to the amp. To get that signal to the equalizer has to have digital in selected as input. If you the select RCA in that is the signal the amp receives and passes out and no longer the digital input signal


Got it. Thanks. Sadly it doesn’t work it seems.


----------



## Drumonron

How do you all think that the Z1R with the TA-ZH1ES will compare to my Stax 009 or my 007MK2?

*Just kidding - totally different beasts.  *


----------



## azabu (Jan 26, 2018)

Today I spent the whole day at e earphone in Akihabara testing my WM-1A, the Sony TA-ZH1ES, as well as all the Effect Audio cables. I taken back by the sound quality when upsampling with Roon and the TA-ZH1ES. It's like the amp falls away and all you're left with is the signature of the iems (in my case Nobile Encores) and cables.


----------



## Cognacbrown

buzzlulu said:


> Other than the Auralic Mini are there any other units I should be looking at, WiFi capable, which can connect to the TA and grab ROON from my downstairs iMAC



There is a list of Roon Ready endpoints which you  can look at in the Roon website.


----------



## Cognacbrown

azabu said:


> Today I spent the whole day at e earphone in Akihabara testing my WM-1A, the Sony TA-ZH1ES, as well as all the Effect Audio cables. I taken back by the sound quality when upsampling with Roon and the TA-ZH1ES. It's like the amp falls away and all you're left with is the signature of the iems (in my case Nobile Encores) and cables.



I find the TA very good at showing the quality of quality. I’ve spent a fair amount of time and effort at improving upstream and each time I can hear improvements. 

My impression on First listen (like many people) is that the amp is very soft. But over time the sound signature grows on me and this is the only amp I’ve tried which I can listen for a long time. I’ve now scoured my humble 2000 album collection and added many more hires native DSD recordings. It’s not just the resolution which makes the music more real but sense of ease of music. Is it the lower noise floor - I don’t know.


----------



## azabu

Cognacbrown said:


> I find the TA very good at showing the quality of quality. I’ve spent a fair amount of time and effort at improving upstream and each time I can hear improvements.
> 
> My impression on First listen (like many people) is that the amp is very soft. But over time the sound signature grows on me and this is the only amp I’ve tried which I can listen for a long time. I’ve now scoured my humble 2000 album collection and added many more hires native DSD recordings. It’s not just the resolution which makes the music more real but sense of ease of music. Is it the lower noise floor - I don’t know.



Appreciate your findings a few posts ago. I just set mine up this morning so it still needs quite a bit of burn in. 

I've added the Luxman USB -> Uptone Usb Regen -> PeterSt Lush USB. Also added some TAOC insulation feet, Marigo Audio power cable (will play around with cable with different tunings which change soundstage) and balanced furutech 4.4mm going into Nobile Encore and Sony ex1000 iems. Will open it up and probably replace some fuses with SR Blues. I'll play around with it and make changes over the next few weeks but output stages are quiet.


----------



## Drumonron

Received my TA from Razordogaudio yesterday and let me tell you, they have my vote in terms of communication and shipping.
As far as my listening session - very pleased with this DAC/AMP - it presents the music with a sense of ease.  Been taking it through 
it's paces with the Z1R and the extra layer of details is easily distinguishable and welcomed.  I really do think that at the price I paid - 1498.00 for the demo(wink wink),
it's exceeded my expectations on function, form and sound.  I lost track of time and have been, you know, doing the head-fi thing that we do when a new
link in the chain is added and rediscovering some music - it's the funnest part of the hobby.  The biggest compliment I can give is that it does not make me want 
to study my music, it makes me want to enjoy the music and it does that in spades.  Amazingly, it did not struggle at all with the Senn HD800, either - in low gain, too - 
only took the volume to -24 dB and I was immersed fully and not left wanting.


----------



## buzzlulu

Thanks for that post.  How are you feeding it?

Do you by any chance also have a WM1Z?  I still am trying to wrap my head around how much of an improvement there will be when comparing a:

Z1R fed directly from a WM1Z 

vs. 

Z1R fed by the TA


----------



## Cognacbrown

buzzlulu said:


> Thanks for that post.  How are you feeding it?
> 
> Do you by any chance also have a WM1Z?  I still am trying to wrap my head around how much of an improvement there will be when comparing a:
> 
> ...




I’ll find it soon. Picking up my 1Z this afternoon. I don’t expect it will compete with my source using Roon ROCK and endpoint. But 1Z should be a killer portable DAP. 

Coincidentally I tried the Z5 IEM with the upgrade Kimber 4.4mm. Sounds amazing especially with DSD native content! This cake free with my TA and I wasn’t expecting much. There’s a also a promotion for the 1Z and I’ll be getting a free second Z5.


----------



## purk

jcdreamer said:


> A year ago I was shopping for the Focal Utopia. I first audition it with WM1Z feeding the TA and I found the sound heavenly. I bought the Utopia but always missed the way it sounded with the Sony TA and WM1Z. I've had the TA for two weeks now and I think I need the WM1Z.
> *
> One other note, the TA-ZH1ES does not come close to driving my HE1000 correctly.*



Same here.  For HE1000, I would get the GS-X MKII in a used market for it.


----------



## purk

zykorex said:


> This is purely my opinion so please take it with a grain of salt. I extensively demo'ed both Utopia and Z1R with the TA, and found Utopia to be the best match. It was so good that I ended up selling my other gear to get the combo.
> 
> For the comparison, I thought Z1R sounded a little congested with less treble air compared to the Utopia. To my ears, there was almost a veil in the Z1R. Both were connected through balanced connectors.



I prefer the Utopia out of the TA as well.   I found the the Utopia also sound better out of the WM1Z than Z1R.


----------



## Drumonron (Jan 28, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> Thanks for that post.  How are you feeding it?
> 
> Do you by any chance also have a WM1Z?  I still am trying to wrap my head around how much of an improvement there will be when comparing a:
> 
> ...



The TA is fed by MBP via USB and for this JRiver Mediacenter is employed as the transport of choice.  I do not have nor would I ever contemplate purchasing the 1Z, but I would and have thought about the 1A - it calls to me.  It very well could be a purchase for use as a transport/portable solution.    As far as the congestion on the Z1R comparisons to
the Utopia - could this possibly be due to the Utopia being an "Open" headphone vs the "Closed" form factor of the Z1R?  Now listen to the Utopia with a bit of
noise - bet the Z1R is better now....lol...jk.  I'm just jealous - have never had the honor of demoing the Utopia - I'm sure it's a treat.


----------



## buzzlulu

purk said:


> I prefer the Utopia out of the TA as well.   I found the the Utopia also sound better out of the WM1Z than Z1R.



So with the above preference what do you prefer feeding the Z1R with - if not the WM1Z then through the TA?
And if through the TA what do you use to feed the TA when listening to the Z1R?  Computer?  WM1Z?

I am starting to revaluate things here.  I spent a week away with the Utopia/Axios/WM1Z and was in heaven.
Came back and listened to the Z1R/Axios/WM1Z and also was happy.  Both Axios cables were balanced terminated with a 4.4

The problem was when I returned home to my two channel system and connected the Z1R via the Sony/Kimber unbalanced cable into a Moon 430HA.  After a quick listen I felt the WM1Z sounded better.  Two caveats: the problem is definitely not the source for the Moon 430 as it is a Linn Klimax DS (the big Kahuna in two channel world).  The problem could be balanced vs. unbalanced where listening to the Z1R's was balanced  through the WM1Z but unbalanced through the Moon.

Next test is a comparison of the Utopias via the WM1Z and then the Moon.  Here both cables will be Axios however the Axios for the Moon test will also be balanced this time.  The Z1R's can only connect unbalanced to the Moon while the Utopias can go balanced.

Starting to wonder if I should completely separate my headphone system from the two channel and run a standalone TA fed by a WM1Z and some kind of ROON endpoint when I want to use Tidal?


----------



## buzzlulu

And

1) Most seem to complain about the included cable used to connect the WM1Z to the TA amp.
What cable are people using in its place?

2) Has anyone used an iPad as a Roon endpoint to feed the TA?

3) in general what and how are people feeding the TA?  From a computer?  The WM1Z?


----------



## nc8000

buzzlulu said:


> And
> 
> 1) Most seem to complain about the included cable used to connect the WM1Z to the TA amp.
> What cable are people using in its place?
> ...



I feed it via usb from an Auralic Aries Mini with all my music on an internal 2TB hdd


----------



## Cognacbrown

The Roon system actually allows for multiple end points so Long as they are all connected in the same network. One of such end point can connect to the TA to stream music. 

The advantage of Roon over the WM1Z is that:

1) Roon interface especially Tidal integration. 
2) Access to more music files than you can contain within WM1Z without changing mSD cards. 

Depending on how you set up the Roon system (including endpoints), it can actually compete quite well with WM1Z. The files received at the TA can be bit perfect. But it does take additional effort eg upgrading linear power supply, USB cables, USB RE generators etc. In a way WM1Z is a much easier route to (near) perfection.


----------



## buzzlulu (Jan 29, 2018)

nc8000 said:


> I feed it via usb from an Auralic Aries Mini with all my music on an internal 2TB hdd




That sounds like a nice tidy solution.  It can sit on top of the TA and grab my FLAC files wirelessly from my downstairs iMac via UPnP and Minimserver (which is what I use for my two channel system).  It also functions as a ROON endpoint so I can have a nice control point software interface should I choose to grab files that way.

Do you use ROON or the Auralic app for control?
Any particular USB cable - and why USB instead of Optical or Toslink into the TA?


----------



## buzzlulu

Cognacbrown said:


> The Roon system actually allows for multiple end points so Long as they are all connected in the same network. One of such end point can connect to the TA to stream music.
> 
> The advantage of Roon over the WM1Z is that:
> 
> ...



If an endpoint such as an Auralic Mini (mentioned above) is used does one really need to go through the extremes of upgraded power supply and upgraded USB cable?

Upgraded USB cable has been mentioned quite often - even when using the WM1Z.  The only one I have seemed to find is the Sony NW10.  Is that the only upgraded cable available to connect the WM1Z to the TA?


----------



## nc8000

buzzlulu said:


> That sounds like a nice tidy solution.  It can sit on top of the TA and grab my FLAC files wirelessly from my downstairs iMac via UPnP and Minimserver (which is what I use for my two channel system).  It also functions as a ROON endpoint so I can have a nice control point software interface should I choose to grab files that way.
> 
> Do you use ROON or the Auralic app for control?
> Any particular USB cable - and why USB instead of Optical or Toslink into the TA?



I have all my music on the internal hdd in the Mini and use the Auralic Lightning app on my iPhone for control. Also like the full Spotify integration including full mqa support. I use a 25cm Vertere D-FI Double D V2 usb cable and the sole reason for that is because my previous dac only supported usb.


----------



## buzzlulu

NC8000
Thanks for that - as they say a picture is worth a thousand words!

I am familiar with Vertere cables as many on the Naim forums use them in their systems - and word has it that they manufacture the Naim SuperLumina cables for them.
It looks like you are also using a copper Axios on the Z1R as I am?

A few last questions - I see you use the Sony dock for the WM1Z.  Is that for convenience or do you think it makes a difference?
The Vertere USB cable - I assume that only works between the Sony Dock and TA - and one cannot use it to directly connect the 1Z to the TA  - as the 1Z end of the cable is Sony proprietary.
Are you using the same Vertere cable between the Auralic and TA?
Or do I have it wrong and you are using the Sony supplied USB cable between the Sony dock and TA - and the Vertere cable between the Auralic Mini and TA

And now the $1000 dollar question - how much better is:
WM1Z > Sony Dock > Vertere >TA
vs.
WM1Z > TA


----------



## nc8000

buzzlulu said:


> NC8000
> Thanks for that - as they say a picture is worth a thousand words!
> 
> I am familiar with Vertere cables as many on the Naim forums use them in their systems - and word has it that they manufacture the Naim SuperLumina cables for them.
> ...



Yes it is the short copper Axios on the Z1R, bought as much for look and feel as for actual sound effect although I do belive it makes a difference compared to the stock cable. 

I actually only use the Sony dock for charging convenience (a very expensive convenience), I have never had it or the 1Z connected to the amp as I have far too much music to fit on the 1Z in full resolution and it all sits on the Mini. The 1Z holds all my music downsampled to 16/44 flac for travelling.


----------



## buzzlulu

OK
So still the $1000 question

How much better is the 

Z1R/Auralic/TA

vs.

Z1R/Axios/WM1Z


----------



## nc8000

buzzlulu said:


> OK
> So still the $1000 question
> 
> How much better is the
> ...



My guess would be slightly different flavour rather than outright better/worse.


buzzlulu said:


> OK
> So still the $1000 question
> 
> How much better is the
> ...



With Z1R I would not say one is better than the other, just slightly different flavour. Might be differen with a more demanding headphone that the 1Z might not be able to drive propperly. 

My whole point in setteling with the whole signature line up is that I just enjoy listening to the music rather than trying to analyze it or the gear, and bith combinations let me do that in spades


----------



## buzzlulu

Well - thank you for the candid statement.

It is not the first time I have seen someone state that there might not be much difference between a WM1Z/Z1R/Utopia and a more expensive TA-ZH1ES/Z1R/Utopia setup.  I have even seen several online reviews of the entire Signature lineup where multiple different reviewers have identified the amplifier as the weakest of the three components.  

I guess this is a testament to how good the WM1Z really is.  It also causes me to move slowly/with hesitation about whether or not to incorporate the TA into my setup or simply remain with the WM1Z/Z1R/Utopia setup.  After all I do have a full blown two channel system to listen to.

It really is a shame the "mythical" WM1Z firmware upgrade providing DAC capabilities has not come to fruition.  This would be the best of both worlds and allow me to connect an iPhone to the 1Z and have access to Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify etc.


----------



## Cognacbrown

buzzlulu said:


> Well - thank you for the candid statement.
> 
> It is not the first time I have seen someone state that there might not be much difference between a WM1Z/Z1R/Utopia and a more expensive TA-ZH1ES/Z1R/Utopia setup.  I have even seen several online reviews of the entire Signature lineup where multiple different reviewers have identified the amplifier as the weakest of the three components.
> 
> ...



I find the TA highly sensitive to source due to its resolving nature. Every upgrade I tried eg linear power supply for end point, move to Roon ROCK, USB cable - all improved the sound. On many other equipment, I can’t tell a tangible difference between Tidal and my CD rip. On the TA, I can. So i wouldn’t discount TA unless all efforts are expanded to improve. 

In my view the case for TA addition is to allow access to:
1) more music than you can fit into WM1 - in highest resolution format
2) Access to Tidal, Spotify, Roon which WM1 cannot

If neither applies, I think it’s best to stick to the WM1Z. The WM 1z is the total portable package where the source to DAC to amp is already fully opotimised. 

Hope this helps. 

PS I’m still burning in my WM1Z and it’s already sounding amazing. Using Z5 IEMs which I highly recommend. Separately burning in my TA and z1R too.


----------



## Cognacbrown (Jan 29, 2018)

buzzlulu said:


> If an endpoint such as an Auralic Mini (mentioned above) is used does one really need to go through the extremes of upgraded power supply and upgraded USB cable?
> 
> Upgraded USB cable has been mentioned quite often - even when using the WM1Z.  The only one I have seemed to find is the Sony NW10.  Is that the only upgraded cable available to connect the WM1Z to the TA?



The SQ upgrade from the upgraded power supply is significant to my ears. I got the Auralic LPS. Sbooster is another brand to check. Highly recommended. 

On the USB, I bought the wire world Platinum which I think is overkill. I’ve seen great reports on the Curious USB. Try to check this out. It’s much cheaper than the Wirewolrd and Audioquest flagship USB.  Highly popular among audiophiles. 

The Sony stock cables seem to consistently disappoint. On the Z1R, Z5 etc. Without the upgrade cables, you are missing out on the high SQ they can bring!


----------



## Drumonron (Jan 30, 2018)

Yeah - next upgrade will be my Z1R cables - I did just purchase the 1A though.
Razordog Audio had a price I could not resist.

I'm really digging the Sony Signature series.  I have the MDR-1000x and the 1A will work on many levels - at home: as a source for the TA, portable: bluetooth for the MDR-1000x or the balanced wired Z1R for home - away from listening station.

So has anyone tried the Z1R with different cables - I'm a Stefan Audio Art guy - anyone try the Z1R with the Endorphin?


----------



## zykorex

buzzlulu said:


> Well - thank you for the candid statement.
> 
> It is not the first time I have seen someone state that there might not be much difference between a WM1Z/Z1R/Utopia and a more expensive TA-ZH1ES/Z1R/Utopia setup.



TA setup is definitely cheaper than 1Z, unless I've missed some big sale .


----------



## banco-sg

Good to see that this amp is getting more love recently, TA is so underrated and not many willing to try it. Same goes for Z1R.


----------



## zykorex

banco-sg said:


> Good to see that this amp is getting more love recently, TA is so underrated and not many willing to try it. Same goes for Z1R.


I believe this is a great amp for folks who like plug-and-play devices and don't have time to tinker with every small bit of electronics. I feed mine with a ZX2 / mac mini and am more than happy with the SQ. It does the heavy lifting, has a great synergy with my headphones (Utopia, Andromeda, Vega) and my wife likes it enough for me to leave it outside for everyone to see. Win-Win in my book.


----------



## buzzlulu

zykorex said:


> TA setup is definitely cheaper than 1Z, unless I've missed some big sale .



I actually meant
1Z/TA ($5500)
vs.
1Z stand alone ($3200)


----------



## TSAVAlan

Give us a call at 310-534-9900 to order now!


----------



## Cognacbrown

Wow that’s a good price. What does opened box mean? Seconds, returns?


----------



## Drumonron

Very good price indeed a lovely desktop unit that will not be beat @ the asking price!  Loving mine.  Now when the 1Z comes down to the 1A price - I'll bite.


----------



## TSAVAlan

Cognacbrown said:


> Wow that’s a good price. What does opened box mean? Seconds, returns?


Demo piece, moving some inventory so when I checked the unit it looked great! Just wiped it down!


----------



## buzzlulu

Drumonron said:


> Very good price indeed a lovely desktop unit that will not be beat @ the asking price!  Loving mine.  Now when the 1Z comes down to the 1A price - I'll bite.



Didn't you see their smoking deal on the 1Z on that thread?  If you want one that is an offer not too pass up


----------



## Drumonron

buzzlulu said:


> Didn't you see their smoking deal on the 1Z on that thread?  If you want one that is an offer not too pass up



No, but since I have the 1A coming - I've blown the budget, thanks for thinking of me, though.  Next up SAA Endorphin cable?


----------



## larzy (Feb 8, 2018)

So I just got the TA-ZH1ES today from Amazon.co.uk - both EU and UK power supply was included in the box...

Anyway, just wondering if I should be concerned about damaging the battery in my Sony walkman when it's connected to the amp because it keeps charging when turned on and in use. It's the 1A.


----------



## purk

For $1399 that's a steal for this amp.  All you need is computer and headphones.  No need to worry about a DAC.  Yes, a dedicate setup is better but ZH1ES is a sweet system.


----------



## buzzlulu

Anyone have any experience running ROON endpoints such as the MicroRendu or UltraRendu with the TA??

Before I left home I quickly compared the 1Z vs. my old Sonicorbiter SE acting as a ROON endpoint (discontinued predecessor to the Rendu's).
It was a quick demo however I felt the Sonicorbiter SE was considerably better than the 1Z


----------



## Cognacbrown

I think there can be a few variables here. I see many posts on the relatively poor Sony stock connector cable WM to TA. Secondly I find the sound signature of my Z1R does change when I pair it with WM or TA. I usually leave the Z1R on my TA. 

The role of the end point is to transfer the music digitally and in bit perfect (and timing). Arguably the end point should not be inferior than the WM1Z - unless there is a bottleneck upstream. Having said that, I recently changed my endpoint from Auralic Aries Mini to SOtM SMS200 Ultra and I prefer the SOtM on most genres.


----------



## purk

Cognacbrown said:


> I think there can be a few variables here. I see many posts on the relatively poor Sony stock connector cable WM to TA. Secondly I find the sound signature of my Z1R does change when I pair it with WM or TA. I usually leave the Z1R on my TA.
> 
> The role of the end point is to transfer the music digitally and in bit perfect (and timing). Arguably the end point should not be inferior than the WM1Z - unless there is a bottleneck upstream. Having said that, I recently changed my endpoint from Auralic Aries Mini to SOtM SMS200 Ultra and I prefer the SOtM on most genres.



The supplied Walkman to ZH1ES is indeed holding the ZH1ES.  Same can be said with the Sony Walkman to PHA3 connector.    I would upgrade that cable for even better performance.  Sadly not all digital cables are created equal.


----------



## buzzlulu

Cognacbrown said:


> I think there can be a few variables here. I see many posts on the relatively poor Sony stock connector cable WM to TA. Secondly I find the sound signature of my Z1R does change when I pair it with WM or TA. I usually leave the Z1R on my TA.
> 
> The role of the end point is to transfer the music digitally and in bit perfect (and timing). Arguably the end point should not be inferior than the WM1Z - unless there is a bottleneck upstream. Having said that, I recently changed my endpoint from Auralic Aries Mini to SOtM SMS200 Ultra and I prefer the SOtM on most genres.



Perhaps you misunderstood me.  I found the endpoint - in this case the Sonicorbiter SE - to be SUPERIOR to the WM1Z.  And not by a small margin.  It appears that you found the same based upon your comments of the upgrade from the Aries Mini to the SOtM.

So now the big question - how much better would a MicroRendu or UltraRendu be over my entry level Sonicorbiter SE - specifically on the TA??  Worth the significant investment???  And I guess at this point I might as well ask about the superiority of the SOtM - which I am unfamiliar with - over the Rendu products.

I have also found the sonic character of the Z1R to change from the 1Z to TA.  Like you I have found an improvement when it runs off of the TA.


----------



## buzzlulu

purk said:


> The supplied Walkman to ZH1ES is indeed holding the ZH1ES.  Same can be said with the Sony Walkman to PHA3 connector.    I would upgrade that cable for even better performance.  Sadly not all digital cables are created equal.



I frequently read here about the inferiority of the supplied cable which connects the WM1Z to the TA.  What confuses me is - what are the alternatives??  The cable is proprietary to Sony - what alternatives are there - and where can they be found??


----------



## asquare3376

buzzlulu said:


> I frequently read here about the inferiority of the supplied cable which connects the WM1Z to the TA.  What confuses me is - what are the alternatives??  The cable is proprietary to Sony - what alternatives are there - and where can they be found??


Getting the walkman dock is the alternative. You can then use any USB type A to micro cable of your choice.


----------



## buzzlulu

Ok - got it

In my case I still think the Sonore Rendu products fit my usage case better.
They allow me to use ROON with my Linn DS player while I wait for the two companies to make nice.  Sonore has the UPnP Bridge software which allows for this.

Using ROON over my 1Z also allows for TIDAL streaming to supplement my digital collection.  My brief comparison between the 1Z and Sonicorbiter SE into the TA seemed to confirm the superiority of the Sonicorbiter to me - be it in a short and brief test.

The question remains sticking with what I already have - or stepping up to a MicroRendu or UltraRendu - and with various combinations of PS’s


----------



## burgoboby1

hi i just got the dac and impossible to get sound on windows 10 exept by using foobar and asio ! driver sucks ! do you know if there is a solution ? no sound in games or movies ! and windows detects a headphone with issues ??!!!


----------



## asquare3376

burgoboby1 said:


> hi i just got the dac and impossible to get sound on windows 10 exept by using foobar and asio ! driver sucks ! do you know if there is a solution ? no sound in games or movies ! and windows detects a headphone with issues ??!!!


I believe I did install drivers for it but I could be wrong. Check out Sony's support portal. And if nothing works, call the helpline


----------



## buzzlulu

So how about a survey about the ways people are getting their music/source material to the TA?

Are they using the WM-1Z or 1A as a source - and if so just straight in with the supplied USB cable - or with the dock and aftermarket USB cable - and which brand cable?
Are they using a streamer such as a MicroRendu or AriesMini?
A computer directly connected via USB?  and if so what cable?

You get my point.

Still trying to figure it out myself.


----------



## larzy

Quality wise I’m confused whether it matters if I source a 24 bit audio file directly from my Mac into the TA connect to my Z1R or play it from my 1A Walkman connected to the amp. How much does the Walkman do to the audio - is it overruled by the amp?

Also does it damage the Walkmans battery if it’s connected to the TA all the time because when the amp is turned on it immediately starts charging.


----------



## purk

buzzlulu said:


> So how about a survey about the ways people are getting their music/source material to the TA?
> 
> Are they using the WM-1Z or 1A as a source - and if so just straight in with the supplied USB cable - or with the dock and aftermarket USB cable - and which brand cable?
> Are they using a streamer such as a MicroRendu or AriesMini?
> ...


I have the dock and will use the dock for best performance.  The supplied Walkman to ZH1ES cable is the least transparent and does muddy up the sound somewhat so I always use my upgrade Walkman cable when I don't use the Walkman dock.


----------



## buzzlulu

purk said:


> so I always use my upgrade Walkman cable when I don't use the Walkman dock.



What is this upgraded Walkman cable - is from Sony?  I am not familiar with it - do you have a model number?
and
What  brand USB cable do you use from the dock?

Thanks


----------



## burgoboby1

asquare3376 said:


> I believe I did install drivers for it but I could be wrong. Check out Sony's support portal. And if nothing works, call the helpline



in fact i had to uninstall then reinstall driver. Now it's OK. i have to face another issue, impossible to play DSD bitperfect through foobar. are you able to ?


----------



## asquare3376

burgoboby1 said:


> in fact i had to uninstall then reinstall driver. Now it's OK. i have to face another issue, impossible to play DSD bitperfect through foobar. are you able to ?


Sorry brother! I don't use foobar. Just MediaGo.


----------



## tradyblix

I'm able to use DSD normally using Audirvana Plus on the Mac. I did have problems earlier when manually (software) oversampling which was a behavior I learned using other dacs in the past, but with the Tazzy I don't do that (it makes no sense if you oversample using DSD in hardware anyway) and I use direct mode and integer mode on.

So it's more than likely that you are using some settings that are causing issues, try not doing anythign you're used to and not doing oversampling in foobar, etc and see if that helps


----------



## buzzlulu

What exactly does this cable do?

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH...00FF086HE/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Everyone complains about the USB cable included with the TA-ZH1ES and how it downgrades the 1Z/1A going into the TA Dac/Amp?  Is this any better?


----------



## asquare3376

buzzlulu said:


> What exactly does this cable do?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH...00FF086HE/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
> 
> Everyone complains about the USB cable included with the TA-ZH1ES and how it downgrades the 1Z/1A going into the TA Dac/Amp?  Is this any better?


This will output digital stream in usb type a female. You again have to find a usb type A to type B/micro to use with TA


----------



## buzzlulu

So doesn't the cable supplied with the TA to connect the 1Z to the side of the TA also output digital?  Or does it output analogue which would mean that the side input micro USB port of the TA is analogue in ie the 1Z when using the supplied cable is outputting analogue and not digital


----------



## asquare3376

buzzlulu said:


> So doesn't the cable supplied with the TA to connect the 1Z to the side of the TA also output digital?  Or does it output analogue which would mean that the side input micro USB port of the TA is analogue in ie the 1Z when using the supplied cable is outputting analogue and not digital


Supplied cable also does digital


----------



## buzzlulu

asquare3376 said:


> Supplied cable also does digital



???
So what is the supplied cable outputting from the 1Z to the TA - analogue or digital?

I'm a bit confused


----------



## asquare3376

buzzlulu said:


> ???
> So what is the supplied cable outputting from the 1Z to the TA - analogue or digital?
> 
> I'm a bit confused


Digital. Get the dock my friend, if you're not happy with the supplied cable. Details in my signature


----------



## buzzlulu

asquare3376 said:


> Digital. Get the dock my friend, if you're not happy with the supplied cable. Details in my signature



Yes everyone says get the dock.  I'm surprised Sony shows the 1Z going directly into the TA with the supplied cable in all their marketing materials.  And why they don't suggest the dock - or did not come up with a specific dock for the signature line.


----------



## buzzlulu

Question - the TA can only be used as a Dac/Amp - the two sections cannot be separated I.e. the TA cannot output an analogue signal which go to into a different headphone amplifier such as a Stax system?


----------



## purk

buzzlulu said:


> Yes everyone says get the dock.  I'm surprised Sony shows the 1Z going directly into the TA with the supplied cable in all their marketing materials.  And why they don't suggest the dock - or did not come up with a specific dock for the signature line.



Just get the dock and a good USB cable and u will appreciate the ZH1ES even more.  Simple, they just don't know any better with showing the combo with the supplied cable. The thing is they should have included cable with better quality to bring out even better sound from the signature amp/DAC unit.


----------



## buzzlulu

And a decent USB cable which won't break the bank?  Any recommendations?

I actually have also been using a Sonore SonicOrbiter SE (a cheaper version of the MicroRendu) with a generic USB cable into the TA.  This allows me to use ROON with the TA.  It is quite impressive - IMHO even better than the 1Z into the TA  using the same cheap generic USB cable that I used with the SonicOrbiter.

Any Stateside dealers selling the Sony dock?


----------



## purk

I had to import mine from Japan.  A good investment if you own a Walkman and want to use as a digital transport.


----------



## buzzlulu

Ok on the dock

And a decent USB cable not astronomically priced?


----------



## asquare3376

buzzlulu said:


> Ok on the dock
> 
> And a decent USB cable not astronomically priced?


Audioquest's Cinnamon


----------



## PCheung (Feb 20, 2018)

I will recommend furutech GT2pro USBA TO B cable, if you connect with PC

Btw, as I remember this TA amp have a 'preamp output' option in RCA connector for external connection


----------



## nc8000

buzzlulu said:


> Question - the TA can only be used as a Dac/Amp - the two sections cannot be separated I.e. the TA cannot output an analogue signal which go to into a different headphone amplifier such as a Stax system?



Yes the TA has analog line out


----------



## buzzlulu

nc8000 said:


> Yes the TA has analog line out



I guess what has been "confusing" me is the terminology they use in the manual - "Pre Out".

So by utilizing the Pre Out the TA can be connected via RCA out to a Stax Energizer headphone amplifier - effectively utilizing the Sony as a DAC for a Stax headphone system?


----------



## nc8000

buzzlulu said:


> I guess what has been "confusing" me is the terminology they use in the manual - "Pre Out".
> 
> So by utilizing the Pre Out the TA can be connected via RCA out to a Stax Energizer headphone amplifier - effectively utilizing the Sony as a DAC for a Stax headphone system?



Yes, and you can decide in the settings if you want a fixed or variable output signal. Pre Out means preamp output and is the signal before it goes to the power stage (in this case the headphone amp)


----------



## buzzlulu

nc8000 said:


> Yes, and you can decide in the settings if you want a fixed or variable output signal. Pre Out means preamp output and is the signal before it goes to the power stage (in this case the headphone amp)



Thank you for this - now it makes sense.
It also makes sense that fixed would be the setting for the output signal which would effectively make the TA's volume control inoperative and allow the Stax headphone amp to do its job.

I wonder if the fixed output setting disables and removes the TA's volume control circuitry from the equation?


----------



## nc8000

buzzlulu said:


> Thank you for this - now it makes sense.
> It also makes sense that fixed would be the setting for the output signal which would effectively make the TA's volume control inoperative and allow the Stax headphone amp to do its job.
> 
> I wonder if the fixed output setting disables and removes the TA's volume control circuitry from the equation?



There is no volume control circuitry as everything happens in the digital domain, but since you can only select one output destination at a time I would assume that the volume control is bypassed when pre out and fixed is selected to give a standard 2 volt signal.


----------



## buzzlulu

Yes - forget my terminology as this is what I meant.  I was going to use the word potentiometer however the TA's volume control is "faux" - everything is digital.

Now the only problem with this confirmation of the TA's functionality is that I can spend yet more money to play around with an intro Stax electrostatic system.  Thinking about a Stax Lambda headphone/Stax amp connected to the TA Pre Out with the TA functioning as a DAC.

Putting aside the problems with the poor USB cable connecting the 1Z to the TA I am having nice success with a SonicOrbiter SE (cheaper version of a MicroRendu - Ethernet in USB out)) bringing ROON to the TA.  Even using the cheap USB cable I am finding this solution to be superior to the 1Z as source for the TA.

I am thinking about moving from the SonicOrbiter to a MicroRendu to use with the TA.  The MicroRendu solution is much more flexible (and IMHO better sounding) than the 1Z in that I can access all my FLAC'S and Tidal via ROON


----------



## Lemieux66

@buzzlulu

Do you own a TA? If so, most questions of connectivity are answered in the manual or if not, the product spec page on the Sony site.


----------



## buzzlulu (Feb 20, 2018)

I do own the TA - as well as the 1Z and Z1R - along with others.  It is a recent acquisition (thanks Jason).  They now appear underneath my signature.

It was the term "Pre Out" which fooled/confused me.

Actually in looking back over much earlier postings I keep on being reminded by a post that PURK (?) made - the TA is an extremely versatile all in one Dac/Amp which represents great value.  Today, with the latest price increase of the Hugo2 to $2800, the recent "deals" on the TA make it incredible value based on its versatility.  The Hugo2 - 1/4" and 3.5mm headphone out - the TA can handle just about everything - 1/4", XLR. Pentacon etc.


----------



## sarnhelen

I too went for the great deal from The Source. Some time back I posted my disappointment that my Mytek Brooklyn/linear supply sounded inferior to my WM1A with my Z1Rs – or to be more precise, that it didn't have the magic and made my ears tired quite quickly. Since I'm so happy with the other Sony products I took the risk on this amp, and I'm so glad I did. Just more musical – most obviously so on classical where the strings no longer have the sheen that distracted me. Work is in trouble though... I'm playing from my Mac with Audirvana. Oh, and Lucinda Williams sounds even better if that's possible.


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Feb 23, 2018)

for the best sound with 1Z or 1A Walkman, use the back USB port with Sony USB adapter and a good USB cable.


----------



## larzy

HiFiGuy528 said:


> for the best sound with 1Z or 1A Walkman, use the back USB port with Sony USB adapter.



So it would be better to use to charging usb cable supplied with the Walkman instead of the cable supplied with the amp (that goes in the right side of the amp)?

Also since I’m not very technical how does the sound quality benefit sourcing a track directly from the Walkman instead of playing it connected to my computer? Has the body / technology of the 1A Walkman any influence of the sound quality if the file is a 24 bit FLAC file?


----------



## Cognacbrown

When I have the time, I’ll test this with WM1Z into the TA amp. 

Currently running the SOtM SMS200ultra via Roon.  It’s very good. I’ve also just added the ISO Regen with LPS1.2. Unfortunately the iso function seems not to play well with the TA due to grounding issue. I’ve switched the iso function off. Still burning in the ISO. 

I love the Roon. Don’t think I’ll use the WM1Z as the main player. When used as a DAP, I’m ok with playing from folder or album mode. But Roon crushes this from a user interface. Unfortunately one can’t use Roon on the 1Z


----------



## HiFiGuy528

larzy said:


> So it would be better to use to charging usb cable supplied with the Walkman instead of the cable supplied with the amp (that goes in the right side of the amp)?
> 
> Also since I’m not very technical how does the sound quality benefit sourcing a track directly from the Walkman instead of playing it connected to my computer? Has the body / technology of the 1A Walkman any influence of the sound quality if the file is a 24 bit FLAC file?



I updated the post with more details.


----------



## buzzlulu

Cognacbrown said:


> When I have the time, I’ll test this with WM1Z into the TA amp.
> 
> Currently running the SOtM SMS200ultra via Roon.  It’s very good. I’ve also just added the ISO Regen with LPS1.2. Unfortunately the iso function seems not to play well with the TA due to grounding issue. I’ve switched the iso function off. Still burning in the ISO.
> 
> I love the Roon. Don’t think I’ll use the WM1Z as the main player. When used as a DAP, I’m ok with playing from folder or album mode. But Roon crushes this from a user interface. Unfortunately one can’t use Roon on the 1Z




Similar here.  I am using ROON with a SonicOrbiter SE which is a cheaper version of the Microrendu made for a short time by Sonore.  I had it in use with my 2 channel system as a temporary fix to get ROON on my Linn DS.

I quite like what I am hearing and am thinking about getting a MicroRendu to replace it for use with the TA.


----------



## nc8000

larzy said:


> So it would be better to use to charging usb cable supplied with the Walkman instead of the cable supplied with the amp (that goes in the right side of the amp)?
> 
> Also since I’m not very technical how does the sound quality benefit sourcing a track directly from the Walkman instead of playing it connected to my computer? Has the body / technology of the 1A Walkman any influence of the sound quality if the file is a 24 bit FLAC file?



I don’t think the cable supplied with the Walkman does digital out, only charge and sync. You have to buy a special cable for digital out.


----------



## buzzlulu (Feb 23, 2018)

nc8000 said:


> I don’t think the cable supplied with the Walkman does digital out, only charge and sync. You have to buy a special cable for digital out.



So this is becoming a bit confusing.  It this correct:

1) cable supplied with WM1Z/A is strictly for changing and music transfer - it does not output a digital signal

2) cable supplied with TA-ZH1ES to connect the Walkman to the side micro USB port is not good quality HOWEVER it does output a digital signal

3) the best cable to use is the one linked to above by HiFiGuy528 which will output a digital signal from the 1Z - however a high quality USB cable should then be used from this cable to the BACK panel USB input of the TA


----------



## buzzlulu

And while we are at it are people still maintaining that:

the Sony Walkman Dock with a high quality USB cable is still better than option 3:

3) the best cable to use is the one linked to above by HiFiGuy528 which will output a digital signal from the 1Z - however a high quality USB cable should then be used from this cable to the BACK panel USB input of the TA

or at this point are they more or less the same?


----------



## asquare3376

Dock, and then use something like an AQ Diamond Type A to B to connect  to TA-ZH1ES back.
If you're using any other walkman other than the 1A/Z, the cable probably would cost more than the walkman itself


----------



## azabu (Feb 23, 2018)




----------



## purk (Feb 23, 2018)

A dedicated Sony digital out dock is much better than that USB digital out adapter using the same USB cable.  I have both and hardly use that adapter if I have the dock near by.  Just search around on the web and u will find that the dock also feature much much better parts including os-conn capacitors.


----------



## Cognacbrown

purk said:


> A dedicated Sony digital out dock is much better than that USB digital out adapter using the same USB cable.  I have both and hardly use that adapter if I have the dock near by.  Just search around on the web and u will find that the dock also feature much much better parts including os-conn capacitors.



Is the same dock for the old ZX2? I was told there is no new dock for WM1 (yet) and that the fit is very tight. No chance of fitting in if one uses a Dignis sleeve or case. Is this true?


----------



## nc8000

Cognacbrown said:


> Is the same dock for the old ZX2? I was told there is no new dock for WM1 (yet) and that the fit is very tight. No chance of fitting in if one uses a Dignis sleeve or case. Is this true?



It's the same dock for all wm port devices. And yes Dignis cases don't fit in it but the Benks clear case fits fine


----------



## larzy

When connected to my iMac, is this the correct setting when playing 24/96 bit audio files? By default it's at 44.1 16bit.


----------



## buzzlulu

Is everyone using the included power supply for the dock when commenting on sound quality or are some using an upgraded power supply?  

And once again what are some reasonably priced USB cables people are using (aside from Audioquest)?


----------



## nc8000

buzzlulu said:


> Is everyone using the included power supply for the dock when commenting on sound quality or are some using an upgraded power supply?
> 
> And once again what are some reasonably priced USB cables people are using (aside from Audioquest)?



What would you consider reasonably priced ?


----------



## buzzlulu

??
$300
$400
or less would also be nice


----------



## PCheung (Feb 24, 2018)

The Furutech GT2Pro, if you want something good quality with affordable price
http://www.furutech.com/ja/2014/03/28/8677/


----------



## nc8000

buzzlulu said:


> ??
> $300
> $400
> or less would also be nice



I’m using the Vertere Acoustics D-Fi at £85 in UK and am perfectly happy with that.


----------



## buzzlulu

Vertere - know it well as they make Naim's top of the line cables (branded Naim with Vertere's involvement kept "secret")

I am not quite sure if they are available Stateside?  I will have to google it.  85gbp is quite reasonable


----------



## S-O8

nc8000 said:


> I’m using the Vertere Acoustics D-Fi at £85 in UK and am perfectly happy with that.



Me too ... had both the single and now the twin cable version.  I love it into my Sony amp with Tidal masters via my MacBook.


----------



## nc8000

S-O8 said:


> Me too ... had both the single and now the twin cable version.  I love it into my Sony amp with Tidal masters via my MacBook.



I have the twin cable version but I'm not sure that I actually need that since I'm using it between 2 powered devices so assume I'm not passing the 5 volt power signal in this situation


----------



## buzzlulu

I just emailed the USA distributor and waiting for a reply.  From a Google search it does not appear that they are readily available here in the States.


----------



## S-O8

nc8000 said:


> I have the twin cable version but I'm not sure that I actually need that since I'm using it between 2 powered devices so assume I'm not passing the 5 volt power signal in this situation



I thought it would make no difference ... but it does !   I had the single cable version which was excellent ... and swapped between the two - both good but the twin cable version noticeably fuller ... maybe more oomph ?   I then tried an Amazon £5.99 cable ... technically there should be no difference but OMG a huge difference !!  As I had already bought it that suited me but I was ver surprised tbh.


----------



## goyete

Hi! I have read that stock USB cable affects TA sounds when using WM1A/Z as source. Is this true? A better USB cable improves sounds? The same is expected when TA directly connect to PC? Can someone explain technically how a digital transfer can impact in SQ please? I can’t believe that.


----------



## FangJoker

buzzlulu said:


> I just emailed the USA distributor and waiting for a reply.  From a Google search it does not appear that they are readily available here in the States.



You could always use a forwarding company.


----------



## tradyblix

They are available in the United States. You can buy them on Amazon.com right now. I live in the US and own one, bought it from a hi-fi retailler. They are just not a mass market consumer device, they are elevated standard, so probably there is a limited amount of them.


----------



## TSAVJason

buzzlulu said:


> Vertere - know it well as they make Naim's top of the line cables (branded Naim with Vertere's involvement kept "secret")
> 
> I am not quite sure if they are available Stateside?  I will have to google it.  85gbp is quite reasonable



Doesn’t matter, it’s a cable. $115 US isn’t bad if the cable is good


----------



## buzzlulu

tradyblix said:


> They are available in the United States. You can buy them on Amazon.com right now. I live in the US and own one, bought it from a hi-fi retailler. They are just not a mass market consumer device, they are elevated standard, so probably there is a limited amount of them.




Amazon.com - where?  Just searched and could not find it.

As for emailing the distributor - I did.  They are completely useless.  Score one for how not to do business


----------



## asquare3376

buzzlulu said:


> Amazon.com - where?  Just searched and could not find it.
> 
> As for emailing the distributor - I did.  They are completely useless.  Score one for how not to do business


https://www.amazon.com/Sony-Signatu...e=UTF8&qid=1520743488&sr=8-1&keywords=tazh1es


----------



## TSAVJason

asquare3376 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Sony-Signatu...e=UTF8&qid=1520743488&sr=8-1&keywords=tazh1es



He ownes the amp silly buckaroo


----------



## buzzlulu

Thanks Jason
Referring to the Verterre USB cable
(If they make cables for Naim they must be good!)


----------



## TSAVJason

buzzlulu said:


> Thanks Jason
> Referring to the Verterre USB cable
> (If they make cables for Naim they must be good!)



I don’t doubt it!


----------



## asquare3376

TSAVJason said:


> He ownes the amp silly buckaroo


lol, ok.. li'l knowledge is dangerous !!!


----------



## nc8000

I’m having a strange issue with the Vertere usb cable. I’m using it between an Auralic Aries Mini streamer and the TA-ZH1ES. The issue I have is that about once per hour the connection between the 2 devices is lost and the music stops playing. I can then hit play and the music continues. I never had this problem with the QED cable I used before and I have tried to switch back to the QED cable for some days and the issue didn’t happen but as soon as I switch back to the Vertere cable the issue reoccurs. I have several times e-mailed the company that sold it to me but have so far had no reply from them.


----------



## buzzlulu

nc8000 said:


> I have several times e-mailed the company that sold it to me but have so far had no reply from them.



Sounds like the same problem I am having with the US importer.  It took them one week to reply to my initial inquiry - then coming up on three week's of silence for the follow-up.

If I was Vertere and knew that this was how the importer was handling my USA business I would be PISSED


----------



## audiojr

Hi, have anyone here compared the TA-ZH1ES with the Hugo 2? Would like to get some opinion on these 2. Thanks.


----------



## azabu

audiojr said:


> Hi, have anyone here compared the TA-ZH1ES with the Hugo 2? Would like to get some opinion on these 2. Thanks.



While it not exactly what you're after, I have the Sony TA-ZH1ES and Chord Qutest. The Sony is for iems with 4.4 balanced plug and the Qutest out to the BHSE and Stax 007. I have tested both DACs out to the BHSE and Stax headphones, and it's clear the Qutest is more resolving and transparent (using Roon and upsampling both to DSD256).


----------



## audiojr

azabu said:


> While it not exactly what you're after, I have the Sony TA-ZH1ES and Chord Qutest. The Sony is for iems with 4.4 balanced plug and the Qutest out to the BHSE and Stax 007. I have tested both DACs out to the BHSE and Stax headphones, and it's clear the Qutest is more resolving and transparent (using Roon and upsampling both to DSD256).



Thanks for the input. I’ve tried both the TA-ZH1ES and Hugo before but on separate occasions. From memory the Sony sounds a bit warmer and the Hugo is more transparent and neutral, but I found both to be musical and enjoyable. As I did not manage to A-B both together, can’t really tell which is the better sounding among the 2.

I most likely will only be using the combo as a stand-alone without pairing with another amp, as I’m mainly listening to iems and my HD800. Believe both will be able to suit my needs but can’t decide which will be the better option.


----------



## azabu (Apr 13, 2018)

audiojr said:


> Thanks for the input. I’ve tried both the TA-ZH1ES and Hugo before but on separate occasions. From memory the Sony sounds a bit warmer and the Hugo is more transparent and neutral, but I found both to be musical and enjoyable. As I did not manage to A-B both together, can’t really tell which is the better sounding among the 2.
> 
> I most likely will only be using the combo as a stand-alone without pairing with another amp, as I’m mainly listening to iems and my HD800. Believe both will be able to suit my needs but can’t decide which will be the better option.



I'd say the Hugo 2 in my view sounds better than the Sony. You're right in that the Sony is warmer, whereas the Hugo 2 is more transparent. But here's the thing, the Qutest out to the BHSE and Stax (which are incredibly resolving) is far more tonally correct and satisfying than the Sony. I'll also just mention the great thing about the Hugo is it's portable, especially with one of those nice Dignis cases.


----------



## ltanasom

Can TA-ZH1ES drive Audeze LCD2 to its full potential?


----------



## Lookout57

I don't see why not as it can drive my LCD-X.


----------



## ltanasom

Lookout57 said:


> I don't see why not as it can drive my LCD-X.


You drive from unbalance or balance output?
lcd2 is harder to drive than lcd-x, by the way.


----------



## Lookout57

I'm using the 4 pin balanced with a Moon Audio Black Dragon cable.


----------



## Vokhos

Hello.Can  Sony TA-ZH1ES can replace  Oppo Ha 1?. Or maybe i should buy Audio-GD NFB-29.38 DAC  ES 9038 pro? I am looking for  neutrality,transparency,musicality,big open and rich  sound . I liked very much Oppo HA 1  .I did not like Chord Mojo and Qutest.Thank you.


----------



## purk

Vokhos said:


> Hello.Can  Sony TA-ZH1ES can replace  Oppo Ha 1?. Or maybe i should buy Audio-GD NFB-29.38 DAC  ES 9038 pro? I am looking for  neutrality,transparency,musicality,big open and rich  sound . I liked very much Oppo HA 1  .I did not like Chord Mojo and Qutest.Thank you.


It is superior to the OPPO HA-1 but the zh1es is not neutral sounding.  The sound signature is lush, warm, and bassy and a little soft around edge.  Still it is transparent and capable of providing very wide and deep soundstage.  I still like this amp a lot.  The HA-1 is more powerful than the ZH1ES.


----------



## ltanasom

SInce the TA-ZH1ES was launched in 2016, how does it compare with relatively new dac/amp in the market now?
Is it future-proof?


----------



## jsturess (Apr 23, 2018)

Does it always up scaling PCM (DSEE HX:OFF, DSD REMASTERING:OFF and D:C: PHASE LINEARIZER:OFF)?
To see this you have to have DISPLAY:FORMAT
DSD is not up scaled.
Source is PC(JRIVER) via USB


----------



## Gonzi

jsturess said:


> Does it always up scaling PCM


Yes, always.


----------



## nc8000

ltanasom said:


> SInce the TA-ZH1ES was launched in 2016, how does it compare with relatively new dac/amp in the market now?
> Is it future-proof?



Nothing is future proof, there is always gonna come something better in the future, but that does not mean that the current gear suddenly becomes poorer than it was before the day the new stuff comes out. 

For my use atm. I can’t see any new stuff coming out that would make me upgrade


----------



## ltanasom

nc8000 said:


> Nothing is future proof, there is always gonna come something better in the future, but that does not mean that the current gear suddenly becomes poorer than it was before the day the new stuff comes out.
> 
> For my use atm. I can’t see any new stuff coming out that would make me upgrade


Thank you for your comment


----------



## purk (Apr 23, 2018)

ltanasom said:


> SInce the TA-ZH1ES was launched in 2016, how does it compare with relatively new dac/amp in the market now?
> Is it future-proof?




I think the ZH1ES will continue to be a very good performer for many years to come.  Newer gears aren't supposed to always be better.  In fact, I take my old 2005 Gilmore Ref Balanced over my ZH1ES any day of the week.  It's an amp only however.


----------



## Russell

jsturess said:


> Does it always up scaling PCM (DSEE HX:OFF, DSD REMASTERING:OFF and D:C: PHASE LINEARIZER:OFF)?
> To see this you have to have DISPLAY:FORMAT
> DSD is not up scaled.
> Source is PC(JRIVER) via USB





Gonzi said:


> Yes, always.



I just got this beautiful amp/DAC myself and noticed the same thing. Weird that there’s no mention of it in the manual and that it doesn’t switch off when you set DSEE HX to ‘off’.  Oh well...it still sounds mighty fine.


----------



## ltanasom

Russell said:


> I just got this beautiful amp/DAC myself and noticed the same thing. Weird that there’s no mention of it in the manual and that it doesn’t switch off when you set DSEE HX to ‘off’.  Oh well...it still sounds mighty fine.


I see you are using Audeze LCD3. How does the TA-ZH1ES drive LCD3? Does it have enough power to drive LCD3 well?


----------



## Russell

ltanasom said:


> I see you are using Audeze LCD3. How does the TA-ZH1ES drive LCD3? Does it have enough power to drive LCD3 well?



Absolutely. It really sounds gorgeous. Prior to the Sony I had used much smaller, more portable amps (Mojo, Micro iDSD, Hifi M8), all of which actually drove the LCD-3’s satisfactorily (I listen to mainly classical orchestral music), but there’s now a much greater sense of “ease”, unrestricted dynamics, and limitless headroom with the Sony.


----------



## S-O8

Russell said:


> Absolutely. It really sounds gorgeous. Prior to the Sony I had used much smaller, more portable amps (Mojo, Micro iDSD, Hifi M8), all of which actually drove the LCD-3’s satisfactorily (I listen to mainly classical orchestral music), but there’s now a much greater sense of “ease”, unrestricted dynamics, and limitless headroom with the Sony.



I found my Chord Mojo drives my Focal Utopia's ok 'ish ... but put them on the Sony and they are much more alive.  I only use the Mojo now with my Clears and the Utopia's sit plugged in permanently to the Sony amp ... for more needy headphones a more powerful amp does seem to make the difference.


----------



## ltanasom

Russell said:


> Absolutely. It really sounds gorgeous. Prior to the Sony I had used much smaller, more portable amps (Mojo, Micro iDSD, Hifi M8), all of which actually drove the LCD-3’s satisfactorily (I listen to mainly classical orchestral music), but there’s now a much greater sense of “ease”, unrestricted dynamics, and limitless headroom with the Sony.


thank you. i am sold and will be looking for TA now.


----------



## sarnhelen

Just bought the Ifi xDSD for portability when travelling. Much of the chatter about this amp/DAC (look at the thread) suggests that it exceeds the Mojo and is close to Hugo2. Well, I can tell you it doesn't begin to compare with the Sony (I'm using Z1R phones) – the sound is thin, lacks presence by comparison, I keep turning it up and even loud it's recessed. Of course a $400 gizmo shouldn't sound as good as the Sony, but after the hype I was nervous that the Sony might be showing its age. So it isn't about the latest tech (the xDSD is impressively advanced), it's about using the tech to bring the presence of music. My big system is Naim, so you know what I mean...


----------



## buzzlulu

Hello fellow Naim user!

Shameless plug - for anyone interested PM me - I might be putting my new TA up for sale


----------



## ltanasom

In terms of DAC section by connecting with external amplifier, how does TA-ZH1ES compare with Chord Hugo?
Thanks.


----------



## azabu

ltanasom said:


> In terms of DAC section by connecting with external amplifier, how does TA-ZH1ES compare with Chord Hugo?
> Thanks.



I had the Sony TA-ZH1ES and have the Chord Qutest. I've used both connected to a BHSE and Stax 007. While it's not the Hugo 2, the Qutest was more refined, more alive, more musical and more resolving than the Sony; and that's with the Qutest's standard power supply. Last week, I received the Uptone LPS 1.2 and the sonic improvements have taken a large step forward.


----------



## tradyblix

Russell said:


> I just got this beautiful amp/DAC myself and noticed the same thing. Weird that there’s no mention of it in the manual and that it doesn’t switch off when you set DSEE HX to ‘off’.  Oh well...it still sounds mighty fine.


Did you upgrade the firmware to 1.03 ?


----------



## jsturess (May 7, 2018)

Did it work for you (tradyblix)? I suppose it did otherwise you haven't suggested it or?. I have the 1.0.3 and it still upscale.


----------



## Russell

tradyblix said:


> Did you upgrade the firmware to 1.03 ?



No—I wasn’t aware that I could. Is this in the manual? If not, how can I do it? Thanks.


----------



## Russell (May 7, 2018)

Russell said:


> No—I wasn’t aware that I could. Is this in the manual? If not, how can I do it? Thanks.



Never mind—I found it by Googling “ta-zh1es firmware”. Looks pretty straightforward.


----------



## Sanlitun

I've had my eye on this unit for some time, but here in Canada the pricing is silly and it never goes on sale. However it seems that there are some good prices on these now and I have ordered one to try out. I can't say that I am unhappy with what I am using at the moment, just curious about the Sony.


----------



## Russell

Sanlitun said:


> I've had my eye on this unit for some time, but here in Canada the pricing is silly and it never goes on sale. However it seems that there are some good prices on these now and I have ordered one to try out. I can't say that I am unhappy with what I am using at the moment, just curious about the Sony.



I’ve had the unit for just over 2 weeks now, and I still love it. As others have said here, its sound signature is very warm and analog-like. For me it excels in that elusive quality known as “PRaT” (Pace, Rhythm, and Timing). Until I got the Sony, I’ve always thought that PRaT was another one of those vague, imaginary terms that some audiophiles typically use to describe a component’s sound quality, but darned if I didn’t experience it myself with the Sony. I now find myself listening more to the music itself (and being more involved in it) rather than the sound quality per se, which is what it’s supposed to be all about.


----------



## Sanlitun

Just unpacked mine and set it up and I am finding that while connected to a PC via USB it will only work with the Sony music player. Tidal, iTunes, Jriver etc. wont work. This is a bit weird. Does anyone have it hooked up to a PC?


----------



## Russell

Sanlitun said:


> Just unpacked mine and set it up and I am finding that while connected to a PC via USB it will only work with the Sony music player. Tidal, iTunes, Jriver etc. wont work. This is a bit weird. Does anyone have it hooked up to a PC?



Did you install the appropriate driver?  The Sony requires a driver if connected to a PC. (Mine’s connected to a Mac, so no driver is necessary.)


----------



## Sanlitun (May 15, 2018)

Russell said:


> Did you install the appropriate driver?  The Sony requires a driver if connected to a PC. (Mine’s connected to a Mac, so no driver is necessary.)



It initially installed a Sony driver that didn't work. I cleaned it off and did a re-initialization and got the proper updated driver. The working driver for Win 10 even installs a little ASIO control panel. 

Pretty relieved to get it sorted out as the amp sounded strange and uncoordinated with the Windows USB 2 sound driver.


----------



## 480126

In a few months I plan an upgrade: Sony WM1Z or Sony TA-ZH1ES. At the Moment I have Sony WM1A + Sennheiser HD800S balanced! Does WM1a + TA more improvement than WM1Z direct to Sennheiser? Thanks for help


----------



## One and a half (May 17, 2018)

Windows 10 detects a suitable audio device and loads its own drivers for it. From Microsoft "The driver is automatically enabled when a compatible device is attached to the system. However, if a third-party driver exists on the system or Windows Update, that driver will be installed and override the class driver." I'm not sure if he MS class driver can support something like DSD512

So the trick is to connect the TA-ZH1ES and let Windows load the drivers itself, then install the Sony ASIO drivers. The Sony ASIO drivers will have to be reinstalled if Windows update decides to override that setting. Maybe Microsoft will get it right one day. An alternative is to use Win2016, where the class drivers are not installed.

For Win 2016 installs, use the Windows compatibility checker for Win 8 and it will install no problems. The ASIO driver is far preferable to the WASAPI driver rolled into Windows.


----------



## Rob49

I've been thinking of buying this since it came out, but there doesn't appear to be any price drops anymore ? ( Not that i've noticed many ! ) I think the lowest price i saw was £1.400 + not too long after it was released.


----------



## Rob49

Rob49 said:


> I've been thinking of buying this since it came out, but there doesn't appear to be any price drops anymore ? ( Not that i've noticed many ! ) I think the lowest price i saw was £1.400 + not too long after it was released.



It's now £1.499 on Amazon. Tempting....


----------



## goyete

Rob49 said:


> I've been thinking of buying this since it came out, but there doesn't appear to be any price drops anymore ? ( Not that i've noticed many ! ) I think the lowest price i saw was £1.400 + not too long after it was released.


Hi! I bought mine in a spanish local store: http://www.supersonido.es/p/sony-tazh1es. It's a relly good price!


----------



## Rob49 (May 21, 2018)

goyete said:


> Hi! I bought mine in a spanish local store: http://www.supersonido.es/p/sony-tazh1es. It's a relly good price!



Hi, thanks i need to buy in the U.K. ( I may wait a a day or two, to see if price drops further ? )

Are you pleased with it ?


----------



## ltanasom (May 21, 2018)

Could anyone help me point where I can buy the usb cable connecting walkman and TA-ZH1ES as shown in the pic?


----------



## siamdave (May 24, 2018)

Hi Folks,

Sorry if this has been asked before. I've been reading reviews about the TA-ZH1ES and am interested. Wondering though if anyone can chime in on the performance of the DAC-section when connected via RCA to a stereo amp. I'm looking to upgrade my IFI IDSD Micro and most of my listening is done through my speakers (Dynaudio Emit 10) but I wouldn't mind the excellent headphone amp. I am also considering the Chord Qutest which I presume would be a better dac, but has no headphone amp. Is the DAC in the TA-ZH1ES is a significant improvement over the IFI IDSD Micro and have you maybe compared it to other DACS you have for listening through speakers? Thanks in advance for your replies


----------



## siamdave

Moved my question to the Help & Recommendations Forum...


----------



## emilsoft (Jun 4, 2018)

siamdave said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked before. I've been reading reviews about the TA-ZH1ES and am interested. Wondering though if anyone can chime in on the performance of the DAC-section when connected via RCA to a stereo amp. I'm looking to upgrade my IFI IDSD Micro and most of my listening is done through my speakers (Dynaudio Emit 10) but I wouldn't mind the excellent headphone amp. I am also considering the Chord Qutest which I presume would be a better dac, but has no headphone amp. Is the DAC in the TA-ZH1ES is a significant improvement over the IFI IDSD Micro and have you maybe compared it to other DACS you have for listening through speakers? Thanks in advance for your replies



I recently compared the micro dsd black with the zh1es - the sony is a massive improvement, so much so I won't even look at the micro again. The sony has a smooth,analogue, wide and super low distortion sound - it's amazing. Also beats similarly priced chord DACs which I find a bit clinical sounding. the sony has a romantic sound, like a good vinyl setup - if this is your cup of tea then highly recommended.. although I would also consider the woo audio wa8 then - has anyone had a chance to compare the two?


----------



## One and a half

siamdave said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked before. I've been reading reviews about the TA-ZH1ES and am interested. Wondering though if anyone can chime in on the performance of the DAC-section when connected via RCA to a stereo amp. I'm looking to upgrade my IFI IDSD Micro and most of my listening is done through my speakers (Dynaudio Emit 10) but I wouldn't mind the excellent headphone amp. I am also considering the Chord Qutest which I presume would be a better dac, but has no headphone amp. Is the DAC in the TA-ZH1ES is a significant improvement over the IFI IDSD Micro and have you maybe compared it to other DACS you have for listening through speakers? Thanks in advance for your replies



After a few weeks listening to the Sony as a DAC using the preout, theres a niggly low level distortion that I can’t remove. The USB chain consists of two ifi micro usb and Icron ranger extender, and on a regular DAC , MPD-3, the distortion is not there.

Maybe the USB chain needs something different, but am unwilling to try at this stage. Maybe the pre out is the culprit.

For now, the Sony’s input is the analog RCA from the preamp to balanced HD800s and in this role the Sony does very well indeed.


----------



## siamdave

Thank you One and a Half and Emilsoft for your feedback. I will probably order later today. I`ve read quite few reviews about the TA-ZH1ES but have not come across the niggly low lever distortion mentioned so I am assuming it`s not a common problem. I have heard some other Sony Signature stuff at the Sony store and was well impressed; Emilsoft, the sound you describe sounds just what I heard and exactly what I`m after. I will not have the TA in my main system for another six weeks as I will be traveling but looking forward to using it as a headphone amp in the meantime.

Thanks again for your feedback


----------



## ratrace

I am also thinking getting Sony TA-ZH1ES for my desktop setup. Anyone else tried using with Ultimate Ears Reference Remastered CIEM?? is there any hissing sound?? Cos from time to time, i like switching between headphone and IEM with my desktop setup.. So far my current desktop amp/DAC, M9XX, has no issues with both headphone and IEM.


----------



## cpetrillo

Can someone please explain (or point to a link that does) how you connect the dock to the TA? I've been searching and can't find which connections and what cable I need. I'll be using my WM1A and Z1R with TA when they get here.


----------



## nc8000

cpetrillo said:


> Can someone please explain (or point to a link that does) how you connect the dock to the TA? I've been searching and can't find which connections and what cable I need. I'll be using my WM1A and Z1R with TA when they get here.



Standard A-B usb cable


----------



## pororom

I am very interested in this amplifier but it i*s essential to know one thing*:
Does it work correctly by connecting a Mac Mini or an Imac with Sierra via the rear usb with no jitter problems through Audirvana and Amarra?


----------



## sarnhelen

Certainly does. Or more specifically, I run Audirvana on a MacBook Pro with High Sierra through this amplifier and all is excellent.


----------



## tradyblix (Jun 16, 2018)

pororom said:


> I am very interested in this amplifier but it i*s essential to know one thing*:
> Does it work correctly by connecting a Mac Mini or an Imac with Sierra via the rear usb with no jitter problems through Audirvana and Amarra?



Yeah, I have an iMac 2017 on High Sierra and there are no problems with Audirvana. In fact, this is a great combo. I also used to use it with a mac mini before I upgraded to this gorgeous iMac. 

I can use it with or without software oversampling. You should update the firmware on the Tazzy to 1.03 if you haven't yet tho for a sample rate issue in rare circumstances.

I also use this setup with an AQ jitterbug with no issues.


----------



## Lemieux66

Any news on MQA compatibility for the TA-ZH1ES?


----------



## cpetrillo

Has anyone compared the sound of a wm1a through the ta-zh1es to the sound of an un-amped wm1z?


----------



## Lemieux66

Just got my ZH1ES and it works fine with the Sony Hi-Res player software. But how do I get it to work with anything else? I can't get any sounds out of it other than with the Hi-Res audio player software. Tidal just keeps spinning round and won't play a track and my MediaGo music from ripped CDs just plays through the laptop speakers. The manual is no real help. Any ideas?


----------



## One and a half (Jun 27, 2018)

Lemieux66 said:


> Just got my ZH1ES and it works fine with the Sony Hi-Res player software. But how do I get it to work with anything else? I can't get any sounds out of it other than with the Hi-Res audio player software. Tidal just keeps spinning round and won't play a track and my MediaGo music from ripped CDs just plays through the laptop speakers. The manual is no real help. Any ideas?


Odd, you did install the ASIO drivers, right? Does the Sony appear in control panel sound?

You can’t run mediago and Tidal together at the same time since the Sony can obey only one master at a time.


----------



## Lemieux66

One and a half said:


> Odd, you did install the ASIO drivers, right? Does the Sony appear in control panel sound?
> 
> You can’t run mediago and Tidal together at the same time since the Sony can obey only one master at a time.



I haven't installed anything manually but a window popped up saying something about setting up the TA. I assumed it's done it itself automatically. It's a Windows 10 laptop and the manual says it should be automatic.

Didn't release I couldn't have more than one or two gramme running. That seems a bit weird but fair enough.

So yeah, pretty stuck here tbh.


----------



## tradyblix

I dont think somy will support MQA, theor track record of supporting boutique tech not owned by them is not good. 

Most of us use Audirvana which allows Tidal to unfold MQA to the sony and the sony then can resample that PCM stream to DSD if you have it on. 

As far as mutiple audio apps getting stuck, this can happen if you use apps that use integer mode, direct mode, to stream to the device. I have had my share of issues related to this so it is best sometimes to turn it off and use one app at a time. YMMV. Most of the time its user or computer at fault.


----------



## nc8000

tradyblix said:


> I dont think somy will support MQA, theor track record of supporting boutique tech not owned by them is not good.
> 
> Most of us use Audirvana which allows Tidal to unfold MQA to the sony and the sony then can resample that PCM stream to DSD if you have it on.
> 
> As far as mutiple audio apps getting stuck, this can happen if you use apps that use integer mode, direct mode, to stream to the device. I have had my share of issues related to this so it is best sometimes to turn it off and use one app at a time. YMMV. Most of the time its user or computer at fault.



They support mqa on the WM1 players


----------



## tradyblix

nc8000 said:


> They support mqa on the WM1 players


Oh, I didnt know that. Thats interesting. But perhaps its because of competition with the dragonfly and other MQA dacs in that market. Anyway, it currently isnt supported by this or other desktop dacs AFAIK.


----------



## One and a half

Lemieux66 said:


> I haven't installed anything manually but a window popped up saying something about setting up the TA. I assumed it's done it itself automatically. It's a Windows 10 laptop and the manual says it should be automatic.
> 
> Didn't release I couldn't have more than one or two gramme running. That seems a bit weird but fair enough.
> 
> So yeah, pretty stuck here tbh.



My error here. The Sony won't show up in Control panel sound it uses ASIO drivers.
Add remove programs should look something like this:






If the amplifier driver is missing download it here.


----------



## Lemieux66

One and a half said:


> My error here. The Sony won't show up in Control panel sound it uses ASIO drivers.
> Add remove programs should look something like this:
> 
> 
> ...



Managed to get it working last night. I had to go into MediaGo and change a setting to ASIO Driver instead of the Windows option. Then it worked fine with MediaGo for CD files and DSD alike. After that I went into the TIDAL desktop app and changed the settings there to output Exclusive Mode and then it worked fine with TIDAL too, outputting 24/44.1 to the TA. Hopefully Sony will allow MQA in the next firmware update, but I digress...

It works with any audio played from eg. YouTube or Tidal web client too now, but it seems to pass through the laptop's own processing first. I found a menu in the Settings for Windows where you can specify the PCM output rate (between 16/44 and 32/384). Whatever I set that figure to is what the TA now receives from the laptop when playing YouTube and general websites with audio. I seem to remember from when I last used a USB DAC (Chord Hugo) that there is something called a 'kernel mixer' (at least that was it's name in Windows 7) which I need to adjust to do a pass-through of the raw data to the TA, but I can't find out where that is - if that is indeed what I need to do.

I have to say though, with the very short time I've been able to listen to the TA, it's seriously good-sounding piece of kit.


----------



## One and a half

Lemieux66 said:


> Managed to get it working last night. I had to go into MediaGo and change a setting to ASIO Driver instead of the Windows option. Then it worked fine with MediaGo for CD files and DSD alike. After that I went into the TIDAL desktop app and changed the settings there to output Exclusive Mode and then it worked fine with TIDAL too, outputting 24/44.1 to the TA. Hopefully Sony will allow MQA in the next firmware update, but I digress...
> 
> It works with any audio played from eg. YouTube or Tidal web client too now, but it seems to pass through the laptop's own processing first. I found a menu in the Settings for Windows where you can specify the PCM output rate (between 16/44 and 32/384). Whatever I set that figure to is what the TA now receives from the laptop when playing YouTube and general websites with audio. I seem to remember from when I last used a USB DAC (Chord Hugo) that there is something called a 'kernel mixer' (at least that was it's name in Windows 7) which I need to adjust to do a pass-through of the raw data to the TA, but I can't find out where that is - if that is indeed what I need to do.
> 
> I have to say though, with the very short time I've been able to listen to the TA, it's seriously good-sounding piece of kit.



Don't worry about the windows settings, the ASIO driver walks all over them, nothing to set other than to play the music, really! Whatever music player you have, always select ASIO driver and not the WASAPI, or KERNEL.


----------



## SeeSax

Hi folks, can anyone comment on using this seemingly awesome Sony unit with sensitive IEMs around 10ohms? I can't seem to find the output inpedance spec and the Headfonia review mentioned some "hiss." Maybe on the Shure SE846 or something, but this should be virtually black background with balanced IEMs at 10+ ohms right? 

Really looking to consolidate and if I get this, my huge Audio-GD Master-11 can go to a better home.

-Collin-


----------



## Flash676

SeeSax said:


> Hi folks, can anyone comment on using this seemingly awesome Sony unit with sensitive IEMs around 10ohms? I can't seem to find the output inpedance spec and the Headfonia review mentioned some "hiss." Maybe on the Shure SE846 or something, but this should be virtually black background with balanced IEMs at 10+ ohms right?
> 
> Really looking to consolidate and if I get this, my huge Audio-GD Master-11 can go to a better home.
> 
> -Collin-



No hiss with my SE846.  Not sure about the output impedance, but the bass on the SE846 is without question several dB greater than it is out of most of my other devices with known <1 output impedance.  That's usually my indication of a high(er) output impedance with the SE846, but it could just be the signature of the amp.


----------



## Lookout57

SeeSax said:


> Hi folks, can anyone comment on using this seemingly awesome Sony unit with sensitive IEMs around 10ohms? I can't seem to find the output inpedance spec and the Headfonia review mentioned some "hiss." Maybe on the Shure SE846 or something, but this should be virtually black background with balanced IEMs at 10+ ohms right?
> 
> Really looking to consolidate and if I get this, my huge Audio-GD Master-11 can go to a better home.
> 
> -Collin-


Dead silent with Campfire Andromeda (12.8 Ohms). 

Others have had an issue with hiss when using them with other DAPs/AMPs.


----------



## SeeSax

That's great news on the silent noise floor! I went ahead and ordered one to replace three of my other DAC/amps  Can't wait! Thank you folks for the help.

-Collin-


----------



## SeeSax

So I've had only a day with the Sony, but I love it. First, the packaging, wow. I forgot that when Sony pulls out the stops and puts their mind to their premium product line, they're capable of QUITE high standards and luxury. You can tell the build quality on this thing is shooting for the moon and the accessories, packaging, design, all match. It's so easy to use, had it up and running in 10 minutes or less and it works as expected. 

Sound is special. It's so refined, so controlled, but not "boring." I wouldn't call it a totally uncolored sound, but it is incredibly clean. Very easy sound to love, no complaints whatsoever. I'm using DSEE HX in "standard" mode, Phase Linear-thingy-flux-capacitor off and I think DSD upsampling is off because I cannot hear a difference with it on. 

The only thing I guess I'm less than thrilled with is running it at -25dB in low gain mode for nearly all my IEMs. It's dead silent in the background and very clean sound, but I didn't expect to need 75% of the volume on IEMs. It's not quite as powerful as I thought, but I haven't had to use high-gain so I don't think it matters. Can't wait for my 4.4mm cables to arrive, but for now using the 4.4mm to 2.5mm adapter all is well. I think I have finally found the small footprint "all in one" desktop device I have been in search of. 


 

-Collin-


----------



## Flash676

SeeSax said:


> So I've had only a day with the Sony, but I love it. First, the packaging, wow. I forgot that when Sony pulls out the stops and puts their mind to their premium product line, they're capable of QUITE high standards and luxury. You can tell the build quality on this thing is shooting for the moon and the accessories, packaging, design, all match. It's so easy to use, had it up and running in 10 minutes or less and it works as expected.
> 
> Sound is special. It's so refined, so controlled, but not "boring." I wouldn't call it a totally uncolored sound, but it is incredibly clean. Very easy sound to love, no complaints whatsoever. I'm using DSEE HX in "standard" mode, Phase Linear-thingy-flux-capacitor off and I think DSD upsampling is off because I cannot hear a difference with it on.
> 
> ...



I've noticed that my volume settings are very similar even for headphones of very different sensitivities.


----------



## SeeSax

Flash676 said:


> I've noticed that my volume settings are very similar even for headphones of very different sensitivities.



That is exactly what I'm seeing as well. My hardest to drive and easiest to drive IEMs are at the same volume setting!

-Collin-


----------



## ltanasom

I experience the same thing.
Even the unbalanced 6.3 mm output, which is listed with lower power output than the balanced ones, the volume setting is pretty much the same.


----------



## burgoboby1

i got this DAC with Z1R and i love balanced outputs. Could you tell me wich cable update i should buy for my Z1R with this DAC ?


----------



## Lookout57

Kimber AXIOS-Cu


----------



## burgoboby1

is it better than silver dragon V3 cable ?


----------



## Lookout57

If you want any all silver cable and can afford it the AXIOS-Ag is supposed to be awesome but so is it's price, $3,100 for a 4 foot cable!

I prefer the AXIOS-Ag as it improved the bass and mid-range without sacrificing any of the high end. 

Listening to the Z1R with AXIOS-Cu on the ZH1ES is like listening to a great pair of speakers. It's so easy to get lost in the sound.


----------



## Rob49

SeeSax said:


> So I've had only a day with the Sony, but I love it. First, the packaging, wow. I forgot that when Sony pulls out the stops and puts their mind to their premium product line, they're capable of QUITE high standards and luxury. You can tell the build quality on this thing is shooting for the moon and the accessories, packaging, design, all match. It's so easy to use, had it up and running in 10 minutes or less and it works as expected.
> 
> Sound is special. It's so refined, so controlled, but not "boring." I wouldn't call it a totally uncolored sound, but it is incredibly clean. Very easy sound to love, no complaints whatsoever. I'm using DSEE HX in "standard" mode, Phase Linear-thingy-flux-capacitor off and I think DSD upsampling is off because I cannot hear a difference with it on.
> 
> ...



Hi there, are you continuing to be impressed ? I've been considering to buy for a long time. I just wish the price would come down a little more.


----------



## SeeSax

Rob49 said:


> Hi there, are you continuing to be impressed ? I've been considering to buy for a long time. I just wish the price would come down a little more.



Definitely impressed and now my mind is at ease with the volume/power issue of having to crank it up. Sounds like a fine tuned cohesive sound, no complaints. I might be a Sony fan boy now, I bought a PHA-2A for work!

-Collin-


----------



## Rob49 (Jul 18, 2018)

SeeSax said:


> Definitely impressed and now my mind is at ease with the volume/power issue of having to crank it up. Sounds like a fine tuned cohesive sound, no complaints. I might be a Sony fan boy now, I bought a PHA-2A for work!
> 
> -Collin-



Thanks for your further feedback. I assume you have a Sony Hi Res Walkman ? If so, how would you compare any improvement in sound, connected to the TA ? Is it a "night & day" impression ?

( I have a Sony ZX2....which i love, using TRRS. )


----------



## SeeSax

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for your further feedback. I assume you have a Sony Hi Res Walkman ? If so, how would you compare any improvement in sound, connected to the TA ? Is it a "night & day" impression ?
> 
> ( I have a Sony ZX2....which i love, using TRRS. )



No hi-res Walkman here, sorry. I only use Tidal and Sony refuses to put any effort whatsoever into the Android DAPs and make them work with Tidal 

Okay I guess I am not a Sony fanboy after all LOL

-Collin-


----------



## Rob49

SeeSax said:


> No hi-res Walkman here, sorry. I only use Tidal and Sony refuses to put any effort whatsoever into the Android DAPs and make them work with Tidal
> 
> Okay I guess I am not a Sony fanboy after all LOL
> 
> -Collin-



That's a pity. I'd love to know if it's worth the cost of the TA, for connected Walkman use ? ( With ZX2. )


----------



## Rob49 (Jul 19, 2018)

Sod it, i've just bought one off Amazon. ( I guess i can return with 30 day return period, if i don't think it's worth the money ?? )


----------



## Leviticus

If anyone is interested, I am currently selling my beloved TA-ZH1ES headphone amplifier over in the Amplification for Sale/Trade forum. Might be especially interesting
for potential buyers in Europe. Hope it is ok that I post this here.


----------



## Rob49

Leviticus said:


> If anyone is interested, I am currently selling my beloved TA-ZH1ES headphone amplifier over in the Amplification for Sale/Trade forum. Might be especially interesting
> for potential buyers in Europe. Hope it is ok that I post this here.



"beloved" ? Not so beloved, then ! ?


----------



## Leviticus

Rob49 said:


> "beloved" ? Not so beloved, then ! ?



I listened a little too loud for a little too long to music with headphones, which is why I now have a tiny tinnitus in my right ear (nothing dramatic, though). That is why I simply switch from headphones to speakers. I really enjoyed this amplifier with my Fostex TH900.


----------



## Rob49

Leviticus said:


> I listened a little too loud for a little too long to music with headphones, which is why I now have a tiny tinnitus in my right ear (nothing dramatic, though). That is why I simply switch from headphones to speakers. I really enjoyed this amplifier with my Fostex TH900.



Sorry to hear that. I have it a little, when i'm aware of it. I'll have to try & be more sensible with my listening volumes, when i receive my TA. No doubt, i'll be cranking it up !! ?


----------



## Leviticus

Can anyone tell me if the ZH1ES works in balanced mode when one uses the line in jacks?


----------



## nc8000

Leviticus said:


> Can anyone tell me if the ZH1ES works in balanced mode when one uses the line in jacks?



It is balanced if you use a balanced headphone and single ended if you use a single ended headphone. 

The analog line in signal is immediately converted to digital.


----------



## Leviticus

nc8000 said:


> It is balanced if you use a balanced headphone and single ended if you use a single ended headphone.
> 
> The analog line in signal is immediately converted to digital.


Thanks!


----------



## Rob49

Received my TA-ZH1ES earlier this evening. I've connected my Sony ZX2 Walkman. At first i thought, i prefer the sound signature of my Walkman, on it's own, but after some concentrated listening, i'm loving it. Not at all fatigueing or distortion, just crystal clear. ( & i'm not using balanced or listening to DSD. )
Talking of balanced headphone connection, excuse my ignorance, but am i right in assuming that my TRRS cable has to be plugged into unbalanced connection ?


----------



## Rob49

Could someone kindly explain how i use pre out on the TA please. What can i actually do with it ? I want to get sound to speakers. Sorry for my ignorance !


----------



## Lemieux66

Rob49 said:


> Could someone kindly explain how i use pre out on the TA please. What can i actually do with it ? I want to get sound to speakers. Sorry for my ignorance !



The pre-out can be a fixed output for connection to a preamp or integrated amp, like any standard DAC. You can also set it to be controlled by the TA's internal volume control for conmection to a power amp or active speakers.


----------



## nc8000

Lemieux66 said:


> The pre-out can be a fixed output for connection to a preamp or integrated amp, like any standard DAC. You can also set it to be controlled by the TA's internal volume control for conmection to a power amp or active speakers.



And it needs to be actively enabled in the menu for it to be available as an output


----------



## Rob49

Lemieux66 said:


> The pre-out can be a fixed output for connection to a preamp or integrated amp, like any standard DAC. You can also set it to be controlled by the TA's internal volume control for conmection to a power amp or active speakers.





nc8000 said:


> And it needs to be actively enabled in the menu for it to be available as an output



Thanks for replies, guys. Excuse my ignorance, it's embarrassing !!....but a pre-amp, or integrated amp, is not a bog standard, AVR ? ( I've got a Sony STR-DN1080 amp.

What i'm trying to figure out is ( & i'm not even sure myself, at this point ! ? ) how can i make more use of the TA, other than using it as an headphone amp, i.e. sound through speakers, connected to a source ?


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for replies, guys. Excuse my ignorance, it's embarrassing !!....but a pre-amp, or integrated amp, is not a bog standard, AVR ? ( I've got a Sony STR-DN1080 amp.
> 
> What i'm trying to figure out is ( & i'm not even sure myself, at this point ! ? ) how can i make more use of the TA, other than using it as an headphone amp, i.e. sound through speakers, connected to a source ?



The main point of the pre out (or line out) is when you use the Sony as a dac from a pc or other digital source and want to get the sound via a power amp to speakers (or directly to powered speakers).


----------



## Rob49

nc8000 said:


> The main point of the pre out (or line out) is when you use the Sony as a dac from a pc or other digital source and want to get the sound via a power amp to speakers (or directly to powered speakers).



I'm still not 100% sure what that means ? ( I do suffer from severe M.E. & have been moving equipment around all day. ( I use a line out, on my Sony HAP-S1, for audio to speakers. ) I guess what i'm trying to say, can i do this with the TA ? ( It's obviously not a player ! ) 

In the manual, it says connect sources such as CD player, turntable e.t.c. If you use & understand pre out, is the TA, taking over the job of your amp ( if my Sony -DN1080, falls into this catergory ?? ) I'm overtired & getting more confused & frustrated, in understanding how i can use the connections on the back. i.e. make use of them.


----------



## Lemieux66

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for replies, guys. Excuse my ignorance, it's embarrassing !!....but a pre-amp, or integrated amp, is not a bog standard, AVR ? ( I've got a Sony STR-DN1080 amp.
> 
> What i'm trying to figure out is ( & i'm not even sure myself, at this point ! ? ) how can i make more use of the TA, other than using it as an headphone amp, i.e. sound through speakers, connected to a source ?


 
The inputs on an AVR are functionally no different than those on a $50k preamp. Just set the TA output to Pre-out and any connected source will play through your AVR


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> I'm still not 100% sure what that means ? ( I do suffer from severe M.E. & have been moving equipment around all day. ( I use a line out, on my Sony HAP-S1, for audio to speakers. ) I guess what i'm trying to say, can i do this with the TA ? ( It's obviously not a player ! )
> 
> In the manual, it says connect sources such as CD player, turntable e.t.c. If you use & understand pre out, is the TA, taking over the job of your amp ( if my Sony -DN1080, falls into this catergory ?? ) I'm overtired & getting more confused & frustrated, in understanding how i can use the connections on the back. i.e. make use of them.



You can consider the pre out signal from TA as the signal you would get from a cd player or any other source device so you still need a proper amp to feed your speakers. You could probably feed a digital signal from your Sony HAP-S1 to the TA (don’t know wich would have the better dac) and then pre out to your Sony -DN1080


----------



## Rob49

Lemieux66 said:


> The inputs on an AVR are functionally no different than those on a $50k preamp. Just set the TA output to Pre-out and any connected source will play through your AVR





nc8000 said:


> You can consider the pre out signal from TA as the signal you would get from a cd player or any other source device so you still need a proper amp to feed your speakers. You could probably feed a digital signal from your Sony HAP-S1 to the TA (don’t know wich would have the better dac) and then pre out to your Sony -DN1080



Thanks for your further replies, guys. If i'm understanding this correctly, the TA can "overide" the DAC in other components ? I'll continue to have a "fiddle" & i'll get back to you. ( If  i set to pre out, on the TA, with red & white connections to any audio input on my AVR, is this correct ? Or am i still misunderstanding ?? )


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for your further replies, guys. If i'm understanding this correctly, the TA can "overide" the DAC in other components ? I'll continue to have a "fiddle" & i'll get back to you. ( If  i set to pre out, on the TA, with red & white connections to any audio input on my AVR, is this correct ? Or am i still misunderstanding ?? )



Yes that is correct


----------



## Rob49 (Jul 26, 2018)

For a long time i worried that i couldn't justify spending so much money on a device. All i can say, is that i'm absolutely AMAZED by the TA-ZH1ES ( & i haven't listened to balanced yet, which should be next week. ) I think it's worth every penny. A device that will give you a lifetime of musical pleasure ! I'm hearing details in my music collection that i never heard before !


----------



## GoDiSLoVe

Rob49 said:


> For a long time i worried that i couldn't justify spending so much money on a device. All i can say, is that i'm absolutely AMAZED by the TA-ZH1ES ( & i haven't listened to balanced yet, which should be next week. ) I think it's worth every penny. A device that will give you a lifetime of musical pleasure ! I'm hearing details in my music collection that i never heard before !


 +1000 to that
I sometimes hear my friends saying "you could buy a car with the money you spent on these!"
I don't need/want a car! I want this


----------



## Rob49

GoDiSLoVe said:


> +1000 to that
> I sometimes hear my friends saying "you could buy a car with the money you spent on these!"
> I don't need/want a car! I want this



Couldn't agree more ! I feel for the first time in my life, i'm hearing my music the way i envisaged & it's wonderful ! ( God knows, what i'm going to think when i hear balanced for the first time, going by what i'm already hearing. ) It's absolutely addictive. Haven't had much sleep, listening till well into the night.


----------



## jcdreamer

I really don't care how it sounds. I bought it for its looks.


----------



## sarnhelen

Rob49 said:


> Couldn't agree more ! I feel for the first time in my life, i'm hearing my music the way i envisaged & it's wonderful ! ( God knows, what i'm going to think when i hear balanced for the first time, going by what i'm already hearing. ) It's absolutely addictive. Haven't had much sleep, listening till well into the night.



Heaven forbid I should encourage yet more extravagance, but after loving this amp from my Macbook Pro with Audirvana (and Sony Z1R headphones), I recently decoupled the headphone system from the computer after buying an Ultrarendu and an Uptone Ultracap power supply, using a networked server, and it's another level of total awesomeness. Still using Audirvana despite testing Roon whose sound quality I find very inferior. Anyway, in this hobby there's always another horizon...


----------



## GoDiSLoVe

sarnhelen said:


> Heaven forbid I should encourage yet more extravagance, but after loving this amp from my Macbook Pro with Audirvana (and Sony Z1R headphones), I recently decoupled the headphone system from the computer after buying an Ultrarendu and an Uptone Ultracap power supply, using a networked server, and it's another level of total awesomeness. Still using Audirvana despite testing Roon whose sound quality I find very inferior. Anyway, in this hobby there's always another horizon...


Interesting, i haven't heard Ultrarendu before.  Do i get it right that its basically a  pimped-up microcomputer so that u don't need your computer.  And it can be controlled via a user interface from mobile phone?


----------



## nc8000

GoDiSLoVe said:


> Interesting, i haven't heard Ultrarendu before.  Do i get it right that its basically a  pimped-up microcomputer so that u don't need your computer.  And it can be controlled via a user interface from mobile phone?



Don’t know that one, but I use an Auralic Aries Mini with upgraded power supply and a build in 2TB ssd controlled from an iPad or iPhone app connected to the TA via usb and love it


----------



## Rob49

sarnhelen said:


> Heaven forbid I should encourage yet more extravagance, but after loving this amp from my Macbook Pro with Audirvana (and Sony Z1R headphones), I recently decoupled the headphone system from the computer after buying an Ultrarendu and an Uptone Ultracap power supply, using a networked server, and it's another level of total awesomeness. Still using Audirvana despite testing Roon whose sound quality I find very inferior. Anyway, in this hobby there's always another horizon...



Don't know about Ultrarendu or even what a Uptone Ultracap power supply is, but i doubt whether i ever will. The TA, is more than good enough for me. I'm certainly going to get my money's worth out of it ! ( Although, my hearing could suffer ! ? )


----------



## Rob49

nc8000 said:


> Don’t know that one, but I use an Auralic Aries Mini with upgraded power supply and a build in 2TB ssd controlled from an iPad or iPhone app connected to the TA via usb and love it



You know i had enough problems yesterday ! Don't baffle me with something else ! LOL


----------



## Lemieux66

Loving my TA, sounding great with the 1A here through my speakers and also the Z1R on other occasions.


----------



## Soundizer (Aug 1, 2018)

*SESSION A - HEADPHONE DEALER. *
I will probably get into trouble by saying this, but after first spending over 5 hours in a Headphone Dealer showroom listening to:
DAC/AMP = THE CHORD DAVE.
HEADPHONES = AUDEZE NEW MX4, FOCAL UTOPIA, ETHER C FLOW CLOSED. plus others.
PC = FULL ROON WITH TIDAL HIFI.
System using silly expensive cables between Dave and PC..

*SESSION B - SONY CENTRE. *
Then Later I connected my iPad to the Sony TA-ZH1ES with Sony MDR Z1R.
Apple lightning cable from iPad to Audioquest jitterbug to Audioquest forest green USB Cable to the Sony TA-ZH1ES..
I currently only have Apple Music on my iPad so this was my source. Getting TIDAL HIFI next year.


Anyway here is where Audiophilies will hurt me, because the Sony System to my ears was the best and actually much better. The Headphone Dealer kept saying he could connect an Amp to the DAVE for more power. However I didn’t want that, because in my logic when a DAC/AMP cost this much it should have a super powerful Amp built in.

Let me put my money where my experience and above impressions are. After the Sony Centre experience I have ordered the Sony MDRZ1R. I can’t buy the Sony TA-ZH1ES just yet, but will save up and buy it in 5 months from now. Also later on save and get the Sony Kimber cable.

After years of Headphones and DAC polarised decision making and further confusion post Canjam London 2018 which I attended, I am happy to final find my end game for five years atleast. What a relief. Now I can concentrate on enjoying the music.

Until I can buy the SONY TA-ZH1ES I will use my Chord Mojo.


THE REASON I BECAME INTERESTED IN THE SONY PACKAGE WAS FROM THIS ARTICLE;
https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-16-sony-audioquest-headphones-page-2


----------



## Rob49 (Aug 2, 2018)

I received my Sony MDR-1AM2 headphones, yesterday.....to finally experience balanced connection. I did, very very briefly try the ordinary cable, first thought, quite bloated, boomy bass. I then connected the balanced cable & at first i thought, is this any different to my Oppo PM3, unbalanced ??
Once i got into concentrated listening, what i was hearing was a revelation ! So addictive, i just can't stop listening. ( & i suffer from severe M.E. so i have been pushing way beyond my listening times ! )
I'm hearing even more things, that i've never heard before. Vocals are amazing, like the artist is in my head. Instrumentation, clarity & detail, couldn't be better !!! Never, ever, heard audio like this before. Listening to this, is on a par with SACD / DVD Audio, Multi Channel listening, if not better ! ?
If you're sitting on the fence, like i was for so long, i'd say don't hesitate any further. Just click add to basket now !


----------



## Lemieux66 (Aug 2, 2018)

@Rob49

If you're up to it, try this new DSD download from Pentatone with your Sony kit. Cheapest vendor I found was HD tracks for £19:

https://www.hraudio.net/showmusic.php?title=13073#comments

I'm playing it right now with my WM1A into the TA and Z1R. It's so good. You can detect the other musicians silently waiting to play during the quieter parts!


----------



## Rob49

Lemieux66 said:


> @Rob49
> 
> If you're up to it, try this new DSD download from Pentatone with your Sony kit. Cheapest vendor I found was HD tracks for £19:
> 
> ...



Thanks for that, Greg. @Lemieux66 ( I haven't forgotten to ring you...still no luck with sound through speakers...)

Thanks for that link. I did download a free music sample from bluecoast music, but the download won't open up / play.

Glad you're enjoying your new toy ! ( Can't really afford the expense of a Z1R, e.t.c. just now...


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for that, Greg. @Lemieux66 ( I haven't forgotten to ring you...still no luck with sound through speakers...)
> 
> Thanks for that link. I did download a free music sample from bluecoast music, but the download won't open up / play.
> 
> Glad you're enjoying your new toy ! ( Can't really afford the expense of a Z1R, e.t.c. just now...



If it is a dsd download you might not have a codec installed to play it


----------



## Lemieux66

nc8000 said:


> If it is a dsd download you might not have a codec installed to play it



Surely all Rob needs to do is output the signal to the TA using the free Sony HiRes music player software that comes with the TA? I wonder if he has simply not extracted the files, assuming it came as a zip file. Personally, I transfer everything to my 1A and don't connect my laptop to my TA.


----------



## nc8000

Lemieux66 said:


> Surely all Rob needs to do is output the signal to the TA using the free Sony HiRes music player software that comes with the TA? I wonder if he has simply not extracted the files, assuming it came as a zip file. Personally, I transfer everything to my 1A and don't connect my laptop to my TA.



Possible. Didn’t know that software came with the amp, I have only ever used it with my Auralic Aries Mini


----------



## Rob49

nc8000 said:


> If it is a dsd download you might not have a codec installed to play it





Lemieux66 said:


> Surely all Rob needs to do is output the signal to the TA using the free Sony HiRes music player software that comes with the TA? I wonder if he has simply not extracted the files, assuming it came as a zip file. Personally, I transfer everything to my 1A and don't connect my laptop to my TA.



That's one thing i've forgot to do, i.e. download Sony's Hi Res softwear.....my thought process was that it would open up & play with JRiver Media Centre ?


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> That's one thing i've forgot to do, i.e. download Sony's Hi Res softwear.....my thought process was that it would open up & play with JRiver Media Centre ?



Don’t know if JRiver as default can handle DSD. I know I seperately had to download a DSD plugin for foobar on my pc


----------



## Rob49

nc8000 said:


> Don’t know if JRiver as default can handle DSD. I know I seperately had to download a DSD plugin for foobar on my pc



I'm not sure to be honest ?? There's softwear on there to upsample ( very loose term. ) to DSD / Double DSD. ( but that's not technically correct, or true ! ( Going by the sampling rate showing on my TA.


----------



## Rob49

Lemieux66 said:


> @Rob49
> 
> If you're up to it, try this new DSD download from Pentatone with your Sony kit. Cheapest vendor I found was HD tracks for £19:
> 
> ...



Can you order from HDTracks, if you're in the U.K. ?


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> Can you order from HDTracks, if you're in the U.K. ?



Just go to the UK HDTracks site


----------



## Lemieux66

Rob49 said:


> Can you order from HDTracks, if you're in the U.K. ?



That's where I got my download from. They have some albums that aren't available in the UK. It's very frustrating, there is another site called Acoustic Sounds which has loads of DSD Jazz albums I want but they won't allow you to buy them if you're in the UK. Might have to get a VPN to solve this.


----------



## nc8000

Lemieux66 said:


> That's where I got my download from. They have some albums that aren't available in the UK. It's very frustrating, there is another site called Acoustic Sounds which has loads of DSD Jazz albums I want but they won't allow you to buy them if you're in the UK. Might have to get a VPN to solve this.



VPN might not solve that if they block based on billing address


----------



## Rob49

Lemieux66 said:


> That's where I got my download from. They have some albums that aren't available in the UK. It's very frustrating, there is another site called Acoustic Sounds which has loads of DSD Jazz albums I want but they won't allow you to buy them if you're in the UK. Might have to get a VPN to solve this.



Thanks, Greg. I think i was getting confused with Acoustic Sounds ? Ages ago, i remember a website that said downloads weren't available in the U.K.

Anyway, late last night, i purchased Michael Jackson, "Thriller", from HDTracks. ( DSD 2.8MHz ) I'd already had their download launcher. I registered ages ago. I also downloaded Sony's softwear. ( Also have JRiver, previously mentioned. )

I waited ages for the download to complete, but i knew this would be the case, with size of file. So when completed, i was feeling excited to see. DSD2.8MHz in my TA display window.....to find that this is what i've got. ( With DSD Re-mastering switched off. ) PCM48kHz/16 bit > PCM384kHz/ 32 bit

Is there anything i've got to change in settings, either Sony softwear, or JRiver ? Obviously, PCM, is not DSD, or am i wrong about that ??


----------



## Lemieux66 (Aug 3, 2018)

@Rob49

I'm not an expert in computers and have had issues getting my TA to work correctly too, but I'll say that you need to set up your computer so that the TA is the output device. If using the Sony hi-res audio software to play the DSD tracks you must drag the files onto the HD player window. It should work then. But as I said I'm no expert and without seeing your setup in front of me I really can't help much.

The other option is to use the Sony MediaGo software which is very easy to use. If you have that software you can select Properties and select ASIO driver mode (I think) and then it'll srnd bit perfect data to your TA.


----------



## Rob49

Lemieux66 said:


> @Rob49
> 
> I'm not an expert in computers and have had issues getting my TA to work correctly too, but I'll say that you need to set up your computer so that the TA is the output device. If using the Sony hi-res audio software to play the DSD tracks you must drag the files onto the HD player window. It should work then. But as I said I'm no expert and without seeing your setup in front of me I really can't help much.
> 
> The other option is to use the Sony MediaGo software which is very easy to use. If you have that software you can select Properties and select ASIO driver mode (I think) and then it'll srnd bit perfect data to your TA.



Thank you for your help & suggestions, @Lemieux66 Last night, i had a thought about ASIO, so looked at settings in Sony softwear, but i can't recall the message, but basically i couldn't use it.

I'll try & figure out "drag & drop". I do have Sony Media Go, so i'll look at that too. ( I wish i had knowledge & knew how to do things ! )


----------



## Lemieux66

@Rob49

If I have time I'll try to


Rob49 said:


> Thank you for your help & suggestions, @Lemieux66 Last night, i had a thought about ASIO, so looked at settings in Sony softwear, but i can't recall the message, but basically i couldn't use it.
> 
> I'll try & figure out "drag & drop". I do have Sony Media Go, so i'll look at that too. ( I wish i had knowledge & knew how to do things ! )



If you don't use ASIO you won't get DSD. I can't see any reason why you couldn't use it.


----------



## Rob49 (Aug 3, 2018)

Lemieux66 said:


> @Rob49
> 
> If I have time I'll try to
> 
> ...



I've just sorted it. As you indicated, you have to make the TA, the output, that wasn't clear to me, until i clicked & it gave me two options, JRiver Media Centre & Sony Amplifier.

Thank you, Greg......finally sorted something out !

Now i want to hear if i can hear a difference between a purchased DSD file & using the DSD Remastering ??


----------



## Lemieux66 (Aug 3, 2018)

Rob49 said:


> I've just sorted it. As you indicated, you have to make the TA, the output, that wasn't clear to me, until i clicked & it gave me two options, JRiver Media Centre & Sony Amplifier.
> 
> Thank you, Greg......finally sorted something out !
> 
> Now i want to hear if i can hear a difference between a purchased DSD file & using the DSD Remastering ??



Well, not sure what I did but glad you've made progress!

The DSD Remastering Engine only works with PCM files, of course. DSD at any rate (DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 etc) is played in native format by the TA. So I don't see what you'd be trying to do there.

The best way to test the DSD Remastering is to use a good CD recording and use the TA options to play it without, and then with, the DSD Remastering. I see that the TA upsamples incoming PCM to 32 bit 352.8kHz when DSD Remastering is off, so really it's a test of the sound of different Upsampling options. Just make sure you switch off the DSEE too when testing.

When playing music in PCM format I always use the DSEE and DSD Remastering options. Like right now, I'm playing the newly-found Coltrane album from Tidal at 24/44.1 using the Percussion option on the DSEE with DSD Remastering on.


----------



## Rob49

Lemieux66 said:


> Well, not sure what I did but glad you've made progress!
> 
> The DSD Remastering Engine only works with PCM files, of course. DSD at any rate (DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 etc) is played in native format by the TA. So I don't see what you'd be trying to do there.
> 
> ...



( Well you did mention setting output to TA, even though i do things, mostly by chance ! ) 

My muscic files on my Sony ZX2 are PCM, so i have used the DSD Remastering on these & i think it sounds wonderful. I've switched DSSE off....i haven't really tried that out......i have tended not to use that option on my other audio devices. I'll have to have a look at the DSEE option(s)


----------



## Soundizer

I am saving up to purchase this DAC. I have Tidal Hifi subscription on my iMac Computer. 

I also have about 75 CD’s.

Can anyone recommend how best to connect this DAC to the iMac Computer -choice is USB or Optical?
Also with this DAC is it worth getting Aurdivana Plus?

The reason I ask is because of the complexities around upsampling prevelant in preceding posts, which is way beyond my knowledge and understanding.


----------



## Soundizer

Has the Sony MDR-Z1R thread been closed, if so why?


----------



## nc8000

Soundizer said:


> Has the Sony MDR-Z1R thread been closed, if so why?



No it’s open, but there are at least 2 threads that got locked a long time ago. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-z1r-listening-impressions-only.853330/page-127


----------



## tradyblix

Soundizer said:


> Can anyone recommend how best to connect this DAC to the iMac Computer -choice is USB or Optical?
> Also with this DAC is it worth getting Aurdivana Plus?
> 
> The reason I ask is because of the complexities around upsampling prevelant in preceding posts, which is way beyond my knowledge and understanding.



USB is the connection of choice. AFAIK SPDIF input restricts to 24/96 so if you want to get from computer at higher sampling rate, (like 192) you won't be able to with SPDIF. 

You should try both tho and see which one sounds better to you, just in case. I use USB for convenience.


----------



## Cognacbrown

Sony just announced some new exciting in-ears and headphones. The new IER -Z1R looks exciting. They also have the new digital amp/ player which looks Super high end. I guess the TA is no longer the flag ship?


----------



## Lemieux66

Cognacbrown said:


> Sony just announced some new exciting in-ears and headphones. The new IER -Z1R looks exciting. They also have the new digital amp/ player which looks Super high end. I guess the TA is no longer the flag ship?



The new DMP-Z1 is not a replacement for the TA-ZH1ES. It seems to be an unusual desktop amp/portable DAP hybrid device. It doesn't have the input options or preamp functionality of the TA. So they are not direct competitors for our cash.

The TA stands alone as the Signature Series DAC/headphone amp and so has a special place of its own. The TA also uses all-Sony technologies like S-Master and FPGA processors, whereas the DMP uses thirdparty solutions. It's more expensive so that must count for something, but the two are clearly too different in functionality and approach to be directly compared.


----------



## purk

Well the DMP-Z1 is a flagship and should sound better than the ZH1ES given an obscene price tag.  It is an awkward product if you ask me using a Texas instrument ready made headphone module.  If the DAC out is so great, why not offer XLR out in the form of TRRRS female jack?  Everyone also know that coaxial and I2S are superior input to USB so why not offer that as well?


----------



## PCheung

Cos the DMP-Z1 designed as a carriable player? Mainly play music inside the onboard memory and SD card

coaxial and I2S input are more likely for stationary type like the TA-ZH1ES 

I would like to have XLR4 on DMP-Z1 too


----------



## gorg

I haven't heard it yet, but if looks are an indication, I'd rather buy 6 TAs instead, and I am fan of MQA.


----------



## purk

PCheung said:


> Cos the DMP-Z1 designed as a carriable player? Mainly play music inside the onboard memory and SD card
> 
> coaxial and I2S input are more likely for stationary type like the TA-ZH1ES
> 
> I would like to have XLR4 on DMP-Z1 too



If the DAC section is so great, then they should have included it.  A female TRRRS is cheap and doesn't take much real estate.



gorg said:


> I haven't heard it yet, but if looks are an indication, I'd rather buy 6 TAs instead, and I am fan of MQA.



You can buy the Z1R+WM1Z+TA-ZH1ES for the same price as one DMP-Z1.


----------



## Cognacbrown

I find it’s a strange product with a very niche use. Can’t see myself carrying this “transportable” product for travel use. Lately I find a number of products moving back towards analogue volume control eg Naim Atom. Unfortunately most good analogue controls are expensive and bulky.


----------



## Lemieux66

I really don't want one of these DMP things. The TA is perfect for me. It's the heart of my system - Walkman input, USB for my Roon Nucleus (coming soon), analogue input for Phono stage, HP output for the Z1R and preamp volume control for the Pmc result6 active speakers I'm looking to get. If you can get this much functionality out of the TA, it's a huge bargain. 

I guess the DMP doesn't have XLR4 because it doesn't have the panel space, and 4.4mm does the job with balanced anyway.


----------



## Soundizer

I hope we will see a comparison review between the TA and DMP-Z1 soon.

 If the DMP doesn’t sound better than how can they justify such a higher price. 

Or perhaps a more fair comparison would be : TA + Walkman (as a transport source), vs DMPZ1 (plugged into a power source).


----------



## Soundizer

Also, buy a case for the TA and voila, it is transportable.


----------



## Whitigir

If amplifications means anything.  The TA has discrete class D amplifier circuitry where as Z1 has TPA integrated chip class AB amplifiers


----------



## purk

The TA-ZH1ES may not be the best in everything but it's an excellent product given what it has to offer.


----------



## tradyblix

I'm not afraid. It does have a nice gold plated volume control tho. But it's  
*$7,882*


----------



## Whitigir

Has pricing started to climb down ? Wasn’t it $7,999 ?


----------



## tradyblix

No, I just translated it from the Euro price and got that. It probably is 8k. 

I doubt anyone will pay full retail for it tho, or they shouldn't. 

Although I did on my TA. I did not on my Utopias.


----------



## TSAVJason

tradyblix said:


> I'm not afraid. It does have a nice gold plated volume control tho. But it's
> *$7,882*



Hahaha what a discount!


----------



## purk

TSAVJason said:


> Hahaha what a discount!



half the price...half the price....


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> half the price...half the price....



For you Purk I’ll give it to you for 75% off of something! Hahahaha


----------



## TSAVJason (Aug 16, 2018)

TSAVJason said:


> For you Purk I’ll give it to you for 75% off of something! Hahahaha



But I’ll do it for Vince at 80% Hahahaha 

You know that people are going to take this seriously don’t we Hahahaha


----------



## Whitigir

TSAVJason said:


> But I’ll do it for Vince at 80% Hahahaha
> 
> You know that people are going to take this seriously don’t we Hahahaha


Ok, I will officially toss myself a tequila tonight!! Cheer to Jason . Only tequila can make me this drunk


----------



## purk

TSAVJason said:


> For you Purk I’ll give it to you for 75% off of something! Hahahaha



I'm quoting your post before you can change it.

I love Vince, he can have a better discount.  That dude goes the extra 5% than anyone of us on everything.


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> I'm quoting your post before you can change it.
> 
> I love Vince, he can have a better discount.  That dude goes the extra 5% than anyone of us on everything.



Hahaha you guys are a riot


----------



## Soundizer (Aug 17, 2018)

It has allot of power on battery which is costly to Sony, since they will purchase the 5 x batteries  designed for this unit. Where are you going to take it where there is no power socket, I don’t get it? A coffee shop perhaps, but some one could steal it or drop a coffee on it. I don’t get it?


----------



## Soundizer

Something this expensive would probably stay in the home and maybe mobile in the sense you can move it from room to room. A big house and big wallet. Billionaire bling.


----------



## Whitigir

Soundizer said:


> It has allot of power on battery which is costly to Sony, since they will purchase the 5 x batteries  designed for this unit. Where are you going to take it where there is no power socket, I don’t get it? A coffee shop perhaps, but some one could steal it or drop a coffee on it. I don’t get it?



Airplane? Or Toilet ? Or rural area just sitting on the huge open field with autumn leaves falling around and beautiful Autumn color.  Toss on a Headphones, and some classical music  ?

Under this scenery, play a high quality music such as “you are beautiful in white”, on your knees, and propose to your girl ?


----------



## Soundizer

Whitigir said:


> Airplane? Or Toilet ? Or rural area just sitting on the huge open field with autumn leaves falling around and beautiful Autumn color.  Toss on a Headphones, and some classical music  ?
> 
> Under this scenery, play a high quality music such as “you are beautiful in white”, on your knees, and propose to your girl ?




I suppose in the garden is good, but only with headphones which do not let outside noise in, much..


----------



## Soundizer

If you have the TA, you could just buy a plug extension for 30£ and save £5000..


----------



## LouisL

so exciting, the TA has arrived to accompany with my Z1R and HD800S. what is the burning period as the miracle is not there yet? I am using stock cable in balance.
btw, mine is made in Malaysia, Australia stock, how about you guys?


----------



## Lemieux66 (Aug 18, 2018)

LouisL said:


> so exciting, the TA has arrived to accompany with my Z1R and HD800S. what is the burning period as the miracle is not there yet? I am using stock cable in balance.
> btw, mine is made in Malaysia, Australia stock, how about you guys?



Well done, good choice.

I use the stock single-ended cable with my Z1R as I sit 2 metres + from the TA. I've not noticed any changes in the sound since I've owned it. It's just sounds great - smooth, velvety and very detailed.

Actually does anyone know of a good 4.4mm/XLR4 cable available in the UK for use with the Z1R?


----------



## Donamo

LouisL said:


> so exciting, the TA has arrived to accompany with my Z1R and HD800S. what is the burning period as the miracle is not there yet? I am using stock cable in balance.
> btw, mine is made in Malaysia, Australia stock, how about you guys?




Excited to know your experience with the ta-zh1es with the hd800s I'm also interested in this combination.


----------



## Soundizer

LouisL said:


> so exciting, the TA has arrived to accompany with my Z1R and HD800S. what is the burning period as the miracle is not there yet? I am using stock cable in balance.
> btw, mine is made in Malaysia, Australia stock, how about you guys?



What do you mean that you are not there yet? Does it sound different to another youhave listened to?


----------



## Soundizer

banco-sg said:


> Pretty much this, but if you pair the TA with brighter cans, it will sounds quite amazing literally.



Anyone tried it with Focal Clear?


----------



## TSAVJason

Soundizer said:


> Anyone tried it with Focal Clear?



It works great! It was the first pairing I did when the Clear was getting ready for launch. Any particular question you have feel free to ask and I’ll try to give you an informative answer. ...cheers


----------



## vcmusik

Soundizer said:


> Anyone tried it with Focal Clear?



I don't have the Clear but I do have the Focal x Massdrop Elex that I use with my TA (or Tazzy, as I like to call her). Sounds fantastic. Bass is a little lacking compared to some of my other headphones, but it's not half-bad. I specifically love the treble detail from the Elex.


----------



## TSAVJason

vcmusik said:


> I don't have the Clear but I do have the Focal x Massdrop Elex that I use with my TA (or Tazzy, as I like to call her). Sounds fantastic. Bass is a little lacking compared to some of my other headphones, but it's not half-bad. I specifically love the treble detail from the Elex.



That’s great you like the pairing. The Clear is on a different level of headphone sonically for sure but it’s always nice to hear that people acknowledge the TA as a good choice of amplifiers.


----------



## vcmusik

TSAVJason said:


> That’s great you like the pairing. The Clear is on a different level of headphone sonically for sure but it’s always nice to hear that people acknowledge the TA as a good choice of amplifiers.



Great point, I've read that the Elex was positioned to be in between the Clear and Elear.


----------



## TSAVJason

vcmusik said:


> Great point, I've read that the Elex was positioned to be in between the Clear and Elear.



Being that massdrop is the only reseller of that product I am not allowed to comment either way good or bad. If you’re happy with them, that’s all that matters


----------



## Soundizer

TSAVJason said:


> It works great! It was the first pairing I did when the Clear was getting ready for launch. Any particular question you have feel free to ask and I’ll try to give you an informative answer. ...cheers




Thank you kindly Jason.

I purchased the Sony MDR-Z1R.

I am saving up monthly now to buy the TA, hopefully can purchase in November. 
In addition I really like the Focal Clear and they sound so clear, quite a contrast to the Sony MDRZ1R..

So I hope to also buy the Clear next year some time. 

Then after that I am done with purchasing Audio equipment  for a few years. 

What do you think of the above package. 
 My source is Tidal on a Mac and I am thinking about trying Aurdivana Plus if it is an improvement, but I do like the Tidal interface. 

Any advice or pointers, I really appreciate it


----------



## TSAVJason (Aug 18, 2018)

I’m going to say the TA and Clear might very well be the right combo for you. The TA tends to be warm. The Clear tends to be forward. That kind of rig is a rig to be not just happy with but proud to own as well. Of course that’s just me opinion I’m sure there are orhers with different opinions.


Addendum: I’d suggest a neutral cable like WyWires, WireWorld or Cobra Cables. This will enhance the nice linear presentation that the cans & amp do between each other.


----------



## Soundizer

TSAVJason said:


> I’m going to say the TA and Clear might very well be the right combo for you. The TA tends to be warm. The Clear tends to be forward. That kind of rig is a rig to be not just happy with but proud to own as well. Of course that’s just me opinion I’m sure there are orhers with different opinions.
> 
> 
> Addendum: I’d suggest a neutral cable like WyWires, WireWorld or Cobra Cables. This will enhance the nice linear presentation that the cans & amp do between each other.




Thank you for those points, much appreciated. 

Those cables are for which headphones  - MDRZ1R and/or the Clears? Or are they TA DAC to Computer?


----------



## Soundizer

Does the TA have enough kick - slam - punch, in general.


----------



## purk

Soundizer said:


> Does the TA have enough kick - slam - punch, in general.



It has plenty of punch and slam but it may be too smooth to some headphones.  A dedicated amp such as the GS-X MKII will edge out the TA, but as a package it is a great piece of gear if you prefer warm & smooth sound signature with very wide and deep soundstage.  I have auditioned amp that slam harder and have better resolution but none is as pretty as the TA.


----------



## LouisL

Soundizer said:


> What do you mean that you are not there yet? Does it sound different to another youhave listened to?


What I meant was this is my first hi-end amp (my previous one is budget O2, which was sold after a few months), maybe I am expecting too much (eargasm) from it after when through 100 pgs of this thread. Feeling about 20% better than the Objective!? Just a few days listening, burn-in has not taken into account or cable upgrade is a must?

Listening with HD800S with balanced stock cable now, definitely better than HDVD800 that I have tried on my local store earlier today. Warmer in a good way and harsh treble is gone. Perhaps my mood is better today. Another note is in some epic songs, bass is a bit slow on both cans 

Btw, mine is made in Malaysia. Anyone got made in Japan one?


----------



## Whitigir

I don’t think any of the latest Sony gears is made in Japan, except headphones Z7 and Z1R


----------



## LouisL

Whitigir said:


> I don’t think any of the latest Sony gears is made in Japan, except headphones Z7 and Z1R


Tks for your info. just assume so


----------



## LouisL

purk said:


> It has plenty of punch and slam but it may be too smooth to some headphones.  A dedicated amp such as the GS-X MKII will edge out the TA, but as a package it is a great piece of gear if you prefer warm & smooth sound signature with very wide and deep soundstage.  I have auditioned amp that slam harder and have better resolution but none is as pretty as the TA.


"warm & smooth sound signature with very wide and deep soundstage" i second that


----------



## Soundizer

LouisL said:


> "warm & smooth sound signature with very wide and deep soundstage" i second that



Thank you and your description is providing a consistent impression to me based on others that own or spent allot of time with it. I have listened to DAC/AMPS with plenty of punch/kick/speed, but they often compromise smoothness/resolution/soundstage. 

I have also considered HUGO 2 which is only £200 more than TA in the UK. I can’t find a a dealer that has both here in London and I don’t have a good listening memory.


----------



## S-O8 (Aug 19, 2018)

Soundizer said:


> Thank you and your description is providing a consistent impression to me based on others that own or spent allot of time with it. I have listened to DAC/AMPS with plenty of punch/kick/speed, but they often compromise smoothness/resolution/soundstage.
> 
> I have also considered HUGO 2 which is only £200 more than TA in the UK. I can’t find a a dealer that has both here in London and I don’t have a good listening memory.



I have the Sony amp and love it !  So detailed and well, just superb !  No regrets at all.  It manages my Focal Utopia's superbly and they are not bright at all.  I have said elsewhere the Utopia's were too bright on my Pioneer amp - which I otherwise loved.  The Clears were fine on it but the Utopia's could not perform as they should.  This amp sorted that !  It is such an easy listen without being, IMO, warm.

By chance I have seen your comment mentioning the Hugo2 which I have this weekend to demo ... not to replace my Sony but to see if it is worth upgrading my Mojo.

I have compared the Sony to the Hugo and would not part with it for a Hugo 2.  I prefer the Sony which, to me, feels more controlled and musical.  The Hugo2 is great (and as I am considering it for outside use maybe a comparison with the Sony is unfair).  The Hugo2 compared to the Sony seems far more bass heavy and in your face whilst still being detailed.  It almost makes the Sony seem bright, which it isn't !!  This was with Utopia's and Sony Z1R; so quality open and quality closed to compare.   I tried a variety of stuff from Pink Floyd, Daft Punk, Adele, Dido, Muse and Linkin Park.

I loved the Hugo2 but not enough to buy as a replacement for the Mojo - the difference is, to my ears anyway, minimal.  As to Sony vs Hugo2, sorry Chord, no contest !!

If you want to try the Sony and Hugo2 give Unilet / Sound Sanctuary in New Malden, SW London a ring.   Their Hugo2 is with me at the moment but they are great easy going guys.


----------



## TSAVJason

Soundizer said:


> Thank you for those points, much appreciated.
> 
> Those cables are for which headphones  - MDRZ1R and/or the Clears? Or are they TA DAC to Computer?



I’m sorry you’re right I wasn’t real clear on the wire comment. I meant on the Z1R if you use one of those brands you’ll get the Z1R sounding a bit more detailed.


----------



## Soundizer (Aug 19, 2018)

S-O8 said:


> I have the Sony amp and love it !  So detailed and well, just superb !  No regrets at all.  It manages my Focal Utopia's superbly and they are not bright at all.  I have said elsewhere the Utopia's were too bright on my Pioneer amp - which I otherwise loved.  The Clears were fine on it but the Utopia's could not perform as they should.  This amp sorted that !  It is such an easy listen without being, IMO, warm.
> 
> By chance I have seen your comment mentioning the Hugo2 which I have this weekend to demo ... not to replace my Sony but to see if it is worth upgrading my Mojo.
> 
> ...




Many, many thanks for your detailed reply. I also have the Mojo which i used with my Nighthawks at home in and around the home.
Your post has inspired confidence and reassurance that the TA is a winner over the Hugo 2.

I am guessing the TA is not as popular in Europe/USA due to lack of marketing and general audio dealer demo stock availability. Even in Sony Centers you will struggle to find the TA or MDRZ1R on demo in the UK.
The above points can be realised by a lack of English speaking YOUTUBE Reviews for the TA. i have only seen 3 in total on YouTube. However HUGO 2 is reviewed like crazy.


----------



## Rob49 (Aug 23, 2018)

I've had my TA a month now & i'm totally gobsmacked each time i listen. I find it incredibly hard to remove my headphones, to do anything else ! A lifetime of my music collection, sounds like i never heard it before. I sat on the fence a long time, thinking should i buy one, should i spend so much money, but i don't regret it at all. I just wish i'd taken the plunge sooner !
I recently purchased the Sony MDR-1AM2 & purchased a 10ft balanced cable from LQi. I also use my OPPO PM3's but do not have a balanced cable for those, yet. Very happy with my 1AM2's, but i guess there's balanced headphones that sound even better ?
Anyway, loving my TA ! ( For the rest of my life ! )


----------



## Soundizer

Is it possible to connect a Phono Player to the TA? Most Phono/Vinyl players ofcourse have two rca outputs.


----------



## Daroid

Soundizer said:


> Is it possible to connect a Phono Player to the TA? Most Phono/Vinyl players ofcourse have two rca outputs.


Sure, as long as it is line level, e.g. has been through a phono amplifier. I do this with a Thorens TD2001 and Thel Phono-X and sounds really great, although some may argue it is not the most clean way to do things...


----------



## nc8000

Soundizer said:


> Is it possible to connect a Phono Player to the TA? Most Phono/Vinyl players ofcourse have two rca outputs.



Yes the TA has an analog line in to take the output from your riaa/phono amp


----------



## Soundizer (Aug 28, 2018)

nc8000 said:


> Yes the TA has an analog line in to take the output from your riaa/phono amp



Great. So I can connect a Phono Record Player directly to the TA. No need to purchase another amp. Just need a RCA cable?


----------



## nc8000

Soundizer said:


> Great. So I can connect a Phono Record Player directly to the TA. No need to purchase another amp. Just need a RCA cable?



Yes if your record player has a build in riaa/phono stage. If not you need one of those as well


----------



## TSAVJason

Soundizer said:


> Great. So I can connect a Phono Record Player directly to the TA. No need to purchase another amp. Just need a RCA cable?



You need to  use a phono stage or you won’t get enough signal out of your turntable


----------



## nc8000

TSAVJason said:


> You need to  use a phono stage or you won’t get enough signal out of your turntable



Not just not enough but also screwed frequency without a riaa, but some players now have build in riia and phono stage so delivers a line signal


----------



## TSAVJason (Aug 28, 2018)

nc8000 said:


> Not just not enough but also screwed frequency without a riaa, but some players now have build in riia and phono stage so delivers a line signal



We can have that argument Via PM or email but not in this thread. But your opinion is fair but limited


----------



## Soundizer (Aug 29, 2018)

If you spend more than 1000 dollars on a Desktop DAC, in my unhumble forward opinion it should have a remote control. Great Sony did this. Otherwise you have to sit at arms length from the DAC.

Is ths remote control robust?

Just concerned that it might break when the wife throws it at me (this is inevitable, my sad fate - a sacrifice i am willing to make).


----------



## jcdreamer (Aug 29, 2018)

The remote is robust.  If your wife is on target, facial laceration is highly probable.  You needn't worry about the remote breaking.  It should survive multiple attempts to inflict a great deal of pain on you.


----------



## Soundizer (Aug 29, 2018)

jcdreamer said:


> The remote is robust.  If your wife is on target, facial laceration is highly probable.  You needn't worry about the remote breaking.  It should survive multiple attempts to inflict a great deal of pain on you.



Atleast my ears will be protected by the Sony MDR-Z1R.

. and glad she is not my wife


----------



## Maliken

How do these match up with the HD 800S? I'm looking at these and the Sennheiser HDV 820.


----------



## purk

I would get the TA-ZH1ES.  It is better built and has better technology.  I have to admit that I only had the HDVD800 and preferred the Sony better.


----------



## GoDiSLoVe

I have both the amp and HD800S.
Very very happy with the sound.  I haven't tried HDVD800 but still I wouldn't  go with it.  My educated guess tells me I can use Sony with a lot more variety of headphones.


----------



## smodtactical

Maliken said:


> How do these match up with the HD 800S? I'm looking at these and the Sennheiser HDV 820.



I haven't heard the sony but can tell you the HDV 820 is really superb and pairs so well with the HD 800S. If possible try to audition both.


----------



## smodtactical

Btw how does the sony amp compare to a high end stack like Yggy2 + Rag/Vio V281/beta 22/Wells milo ?


----------



## Alson Chua

Me too.. I’m torn between the hdv 820 and the sony ta-zh1es. HDV820 cost almost 1k more


----------



## smodtactical

Alson Chua said:


> Me too.. I’m torn between the hdv 820 and the sony ta-zh1es. HDV820 cost almost 1k more



If you can get the sony for 1k less im guessing thats the better choice. I mean just look how popular the sony is on these forums. No one talks about the HDV820 except me.. lol.

I'd go sony but i've never heard it.


----------



## Alson Chua

Lol.. I know Sony it’s kind of the way to go especially the 1k difference. Pairing with HD800S should be okay, just that I have other gears that are on the warm side already.


----------



## smodtactical

Alson Chua said:


> Lol.. I know Sony it’s kind of the way to go especially the 1k difference. Pairing with HD800S should be okay, just that I have other gears that are on the warm side already.



Order both new online... they have return policies. Listen to both then decide. Also please post your impressions here. Oh and if you do that keep them both running for as much as you can to break them in.


----------



## Alson Chua

smodtactical said:


> Order both new online... they have return policies. Listen to both then decide. Also please post your impressions here. Oh and if you do that keep them both running for as much as you can to break them in.



I wish I had that kind of money lol


----------



## smodtactical

So this unit retails for $2800 usd. Do you think you can match or surpass its performance with a discrete stack costing the same? I'm thinking  Master 9 + Gumby (about $2650). What do you guys think?


----------



## Alson Chua

And then I want to get the Danacable Lazuli Reference.. So lots of money


----------



## purk

smodtactical said:


> So this unit retails for $2800 usd. Do you think you can match or surpass its performance with a discrete stack costing the same? I'm thinking  Master 9 + Gumby (about $2650). What do you guys think?



Easy to do.  Get the ECP T4 and any DAC u want.


----------



## alphanumerix1

purk said:


> Easy to do.  Get the ECP T4 and any DAC u want.



Your equipment list is incredibly impressive. I'd love a pic if you have posted on head fi


----------



## smodtactical

purk said:


> Easy to do.  Get the ECP T4 and any DAC u want.



Any reviews of t4 yet?


----------



## smodtactical

Maybe la figero 339 and Gumby would better the Sony.


----------



## Alson Chua

Ytd I went to audit the TA, and I feel it’s quite on the netural side and it didn’t bring much warm to my HD800S


----------



## purk (Sep 4, 2018)

alphanumerix1 said:


> Your equipment list is incredibly impressive. I'd love a pic if you have posted on head fi



How about the above picture?



smodtactical said:


> Any reviews of t4 yet?




I heard the prototype and it was already at GSX MKII level so I have no doubt that the final product will be even better.


----------



## alphanumerix1

purk said:


> How about the above



Wow


----------



## Hellraiser86

Hi there, I am ppretty new here and just have read all the posts starting by site one. 
Currently I am searching for a dap/dac/amp for private listening and there starts the trouble with 2 possible scenarios...

1. I've got the WM1A (using it together with my Z1R and Xelento IEM) so it would be a nice match with the TA. On the other hand there is the WM1Z. So my question is how much does the TA outperform the 1Z in soundstage and dynamics?

2. I am using the RME ADI-2 Pro at my studio for listening to my other headphones and I am thinking about using it at home too (and maybe add a Violectric 281). Did you guys a comparison between these two DAC/Amps?


----------



## vcmusik

purk said:


> How about the above picture?



Goddamn, that's a Sony collector's dream right there. I'm only 2/5 with the Z1R and R10, lol. Hats off to you.


----------



## gorg

*@purk*
Which one do you prefer for your classical music ?


----------



## purk

gorg said:


> *@purk*
> Which one do you prefer for your classical music ?


The R10 by far.


----------



## cpetrillo

Has anyone here heard the LCD3 on the ta-zh1es? I'm wondering if it will drive them well and be a good match.


----------



## Soundizer

cpetrillo said:


> Has anyone here heard the LCD3 on the ta-zh1es? I'm wondering if it will drive them well and be a good match.



I have similar question for LCD 2C.


----------



## Soundizer

TSAVJason said:


> You need to  use a phono stage or you won’t get enough signal out of your turntable




I don’t really understand due to my technical knowledge limitations. What is a phono stage and is it already included in some record players?


----------



## Soundizer

Perhaps there is a market for a Turntable that has a high quality headphone output with built in phono/amp etc. Why doesn’t someone design it and make it?


----------



## nc8000 (Sep 20, 2018)

Soundizer said:


> I don’t really understand due to my technical knowledge limitations. What is a phono stage and is it already included in some record players?



Yes some newer record players do have build in phono stage so will be outputting a standard line signal like you would get from a cd player but this is mostly on the lower price entry level record players. Otherwise you need a phono stage. This does 2 things, amplifies the very weak signal that the pick up generates to normal line level and does riia frequency compensation (the signal stored on a record has been processed and without this the sound will sound strange). Riia processing is really a lot like encoding and decoding digital music to flac, alac and other. Unfortunately you cant see from the cable from the record player if it has build in phono stage as the cables look identical


----------



## TSAVJason

Soundizer said:


> Perhaps there is a market for a Turntable that has a high quality headphone output with built in phono/amp etc. Why doesn’t someone design it and make it?



Hahaha you youngsters! There are USB tables and tables with phono preamps built in. I’m personally not impressed but they do exist so I suppose you could check around your neck of the woods to see what’s available in your area. We typically shy away from them from a lack of good sound out of them.


----------



## Russell

cpetrillo said:


> Has anyone here heard the LCD3 on the ta-zh1es? I'm wondering if it will drive them well and be a good match.



Absolutely.  I refer you to post #1395 of this thread, where I answered this very question from another poster.  My feelings haven't changed since then!


----------



## quoji

Just got this today. Is it supposed to click a bit when switching inputs? And one foot is slightly short so it rocks a very tiny bit, oh well. Some driver problems when switching inputs on Win10, had to reinstall in Device Manager, and now things are working. Very nice clarity from the dac.  Nothing special to say about the amp really. I'm on low gain -20 to -17 ish
The housing is incredibly soft and velvety, very nice. 
Still not sure what to think about all the DXEE and phase linearizer, differences are very subtle.


----------



## Soundizer

I wish to only use the SONY TA-Z1ES as a TV dac/amp into the SONY MDR-Z1R headphones. So connect it to the Optical out from the TV.

Is this over kill?


----------



## Lemieux66

Soundizer said:


> I wish to only use the SONY TA-Z1ES as a TV dac/amp into the SONY MDR-Z1R headphones. So connect it to the Optical out from the TV.
> 
> Is this over kill?



Yes, but if you have an unlimited budget, why not do it?


----------



## Soundizer

Lemieux66 said:


> Yes, but if you have an unlimited budget, why not do it?



Thank you. 

Although I don’t have an unlimited budget I am like others here a real enthusiast. Life should be enjoyed.


----------



## TSAVJason

Soundizer said:


> I wish to only use the SONY TA-Z1ES as a TV dac/amp into the SONY MDR-Z1R headphones. So connect it to the Optical out from the TV.
> 
> Is this over kill?



Hahahahaha maybe not! There is another solution I personally use. I bought a set of Sennheiser TR175. Works great, sounds good and keeps the spousal unit from screaming at me to “Turn that crap down!!” I think in the UK they’re about £130.


----------



## Soundizer

TSAVJason said:


> Hahahahaha maybe not! There is another solution I personally use. I bought a set of Sennheiser TR175. Works great, sounds good and keeps the spousal unit from screaming at me to “Turn that crap down!!” I think in the UK they’re about £130.




No seriously. This is going to be my TV set up. TV via Optical to thd Sony TA-Z1HES to SONY MDRZ1R.



My Desktop Computer is Focal Clear with currently a Chord Mojo. Likely to get Questyle CMA 600i.


----------



## Daroid

I'm using my TA-ZH1ES with my TV using optical connection and it works fine - but you'll need to make sure your TV does the conversion to PCM as many channels use dolby digital / ac-3. The TA-ZH1ES obviously doesn't decode this.


----------



## Soundizer

Daroid said:


> I'm using my TA-ZH1ES with my TV using optical connection and it works fine - but you'll need to make sure your TV does the conversion to PCM as many channels use dolby digital / ac-3. The TA-ZH1ES obviously doesn't decode this.



Yes i can switch audio mode to optical - pcm. Tried it with my Chord Mojo.


----------



## Soundizer

Anyone tried connecting a tablet like an iPad to the TA via USB? if so how does it sound?


----------



## Aliv3

Has anyone tried the Audeze lcd-2c with the ta-zh1es? I'm on the market for a headphone amp and the search has been driving me insane lol


----------



## Soundizer

Aliv3 said:


> Has anyone tried the Audeze lcd-2c with the ta-zh1es? I'm on the market for a headphone amp and the search has been driving me insane lol



Also consider Questyle CMA400i or 600i which pair well with LCDC 2C. The CMA400i is black which is a nice cosmetic match. Get a balanced cable 4pin XLR.


----------



## purk

Soundizer said:


> Also consider Questyle CMA400i or 600i which pair well with LCDC 2C. The CMA400i is black which is a nice cosmetic match. Get a balanced cable 4pin XLR.


I take the Z1ES over the 600i.


----------



## Soundizer

purk said:


> I take the Z1ES over the 600i.



Yes so would I. How does Hugo 2 compare with the TA, do you know?


----------



## purk

I don't own the Hugo 2 so I don't know but I tried out the 600i before and it was good but not a great sounding desktop amp/DAC unit.  I would classify the TA-ZH1ES to be a great sounding.  All relative to your benchmark obviously and the pairing.


----------



## Lookout57

You should ask TSAVJason for his opinion since he sells all of them.


----------



## purk

Lookout57 said:


> You should ask TSAVJason for his opinion since he sells all of them.



Jason is a great guy so he will tell you straight but you may still want to audition them yourself because everyone has their own preference.  Jason is an Utopia kind of guy.


----------



## TSAVJason

purk said:


> Jason is a great guy so he will tell you straight but you may still want to audition them yourself because everyone has their own preference.  Jason is an Utopia kind of guy.



It’s true I do like the Utopia but to be fair I use the SR009 and Voce often too. Thx for the compliment Purk ....I’m good striving to be great!


----------



## TSAVJason

Lookout57 said:


> You should ask TSAVJason for his opinion since he sells all of them.



What’s the question?


----------



## Lookout57

Wanted a comparison between the TA-ZH1ES and the Hugo 2 and maybe even the CMA600i. The questions started here Post #1612


----------



## Aliv3

TSAVJason said:


> What’s the question?


I have a question. I am looking an amplifier for my audeze LCD-2c and I am an eye on Sony ta-zh1es and the guys here recommended the cma600/400. from what i've been searching the cma400i presents best value for the money than the 600i. so my question is between the Sony and questyle 400i. what you think?
the difference in price is still quite large


----------



## TSAVJason (Sep 24, 2018)

So I’m not sure who is asking what but let’s see if I can do this in one post anyway.

It would be true at least in my personal opinion that they directly correspond to their price point until we reach the question of which is better between the H2 & the TAES.

So good-better-best is the 400, 600 than the H2 & Sony. If your player or Source is one of the new Sony Walkman DAPs or the HAPZ1ES there is very little contest. The Sony amp does way more very cool and usable functions. If the music source is not a Sony player the H2 is likely the better choice. The H2 can get a little aggressive with lower quality recordings. The TAES is never aggressive even with lower quality recordings. To be sure, both the H2 & Sony TAES are very warm sounding amps and both are very good at detail. The H2 tends to be just a hair warmer depending on how you use the filters.

I will agree with Purk in saying you should still find a way to audition them before you purchase because your question is subjective in nature. My opinion is not the absolute answer but in general you’ll find most responses to your question very similar to mine.


----------



## Soundizer (Sep 24, 2018)

TSAVJason said:


> What’s the question?



Hi Jason,

Do you have an opinion on which is best matched to Focal Clear between SONY TA and Hugo 2?

Also, can I connect the Sony PS-HX500 directly to the Sony TA?
*PS-HX500*


----------



## TSAVJason (Sep 24, 2018)

Soundizer said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> Do you have an opinion on which is best matched to Focal Clear between SONY TA and Hugo 2?
> 
> ...



I’d personally go with the TA since you like the PSHX500.  And yes! The 500 will work nicely with the TA.

The 600 is really nice but more neutral with less emotion in its playback than the H2 or TAES. If you’re in the $2k + price range it really comes down to the H2 or TAES. If you want to consider the more nuetral amp you should be thinking of the 800 not the 400 or 600.


----------



## sne4me

Is anyone here running signal enhancement over USB? I am interested to know if any performance has been seen using say ifi audio igalvanic3 or micro iusb3


----------



## Soundizer

TSAVJason said:


> I’d personally go with the TA since you like the PSHX500.  And yes! The 500 will work nicely with the TA.
> 
> The 600 is really nice but more neutral with less emotion in its playback than the H2 or TAES. If you’re in the $2k + price range it really comes down to the H2 or TAES. If you want to consider the more nuetral amp you should be thinking of the 800 not the 400 or 600.




Hi Jason,

My TA arrived yesterday and I shall post in a few days my impressions. Initially I am shocked how super smooth it is and totally destroys the Questyle CMA600i for pairing with my Focal Clears. 


Can I ask some general questions which I hope would be useful to others on this thread, not just me;

[q1] For movies listening via Optical to my TV (in PCM) is there any benefit in turning on:
- DSD REMASTERING.
- DSEE HX.
- ANALOGUE LINEAR PHASE.

[q2]. If connecting to Sony PSHX500 via RCA. This is shown in the TA manual.
Will this still sound great like a vinyl is, as I understand it will change the analog to digital?


----------



## Lemieux66

In answer to your first question, try it yourself. Not sure why you'd ask someone else that question? Don't you trust your own judgement? Afterall, it's you who will be using the gear.

Personally, I always use DSD Remastering and DSEE. I like these features Sony provides.

In my experience, the TA works great with a vinyl source. Don't forget most music during production goes through numerous A/D and D/A stages, and vinyl is a more distorted medium than high quality digital.


----------



## TSAVJason

Soundizer said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> My TA arrived yesterday and I shall post in a few days my impressions. Initially I am shocked how super smooth it is and totally destroys the Questyle CMA600i for pairing with my Focal Clears.
> 
> ...



There can be benefits if the source signal is good quality. When you use the RCA inputs yes, it will digitize and re-establish the analog. This method should result in improved analog regardless of what analog Source is being used as long as it already a descent recording to begin with. Just like the other poster said (although a little less kind) this is a subjective end result and you should just enjoy what you enjoy, don’t try to force a result that may not exist. Good luck & enjoy your new TA ES Amplifier!  

It’s ok to continue asking questions ....don’t be shy about it if you’d like more answers.


----------



## Soundizer (Sep 29, 2018)

Here are my impressions of the Sony TA-ZH1ES (DAC/AMP) after listening and owning for 3.5 days.

*Devices* *connectivity* *chain*:

LG OLED55C7 (TV) >>>via Optical Cable >>> SONY TA-ZH1ES (DAC/AMP)>>>via Focal 4pin XLR cable>>.FOCAL CLEAR (Headphones, burned in).
APPLE 4KTV (TV Media Streamer)>>>via HDMI Cable>>>LG OLED55C7 (TV) >>>via Optical Cable >>> SONY TA-ZH1ES (DAC/AMP)>>>via Focal 4pin XLR cable>>.FOCAL CLEAR (Headphones, burned in).
Apple iPad (Tablet) >>>via Apple Lighting to USB cable/Audioquest Jitterbug/Sony USB to USB B cable >>> SONY TA-ZH1ES (DAC/AMP)>>>via Focal 4pin XLR cable>>.FOCAL CLEAR (Headphones, burned in).


*For the Optical Cable into the SONY TA-ZH1ES (DAC/AMP) based on connectivity 1 & 2 above, I experienced similar impressions as below.*
Music Source is TIDAL APP (HIFI subscription) playing via Apple TV4K. Movies on Netflix, Amazon Prime on LG OLED TV. Movies purchased on iTunes played on Apple 4KTV.
- Incredibly resolving, picking out every nuance of detail in the source. I watched Movies and Listening to tracks previously experienced and could pick out numerous points of hearing new sounds. Even at low volumes no details are lost, from Wind to Human breathing sounds.
- Very wide Expansive Soundstage = ideal for Movies.Those that say the Focal Clears don’t have very wide Soundstage, they should try listening via the SONY TA.
- Magnificent low end SUB BASE. I have never heard such details in movie explosions.
- Quiet. Based on above set up the Sony TA is dead quiet. Now that’s what we should expect from a £1,500 device.
- Smoothness. It has wonderful Euphoric smoothness to the sound, which I guess is part of the Sony signature sound. This is good for lower quality recordings to eliminate harshness, but it doesn’t compromise on any details. I just don’t know how they have achieved this. Amazing.
- DSD REMASTERING = I am not sure if I can tell a difference with this on or off. However sometimes I think it is better left ON, but never any worse. So I leave it on.
- DSEE HX = I cannot hear a difference ON or OFF.

*

For the USB B into the SONY TA-ZH1ES (DAC/AMP) based on connectivity 3 above, my impressions as below.*
Music Source is TIDAL APP on iPad. Listening to HIFI Quality music. All types of genre.
VERY disappointed compared to the OPTICAL connection above. Sounds very flat, lack of Base and Sound Stage.
PERHAPS THIS IS DUE TO MY IPAD BEING A BAD TRANSPORT DEVICE. MY IPAD IS IPAD PRO - 2016 MODEL. I DON’T UNDERSTAND. 


*BUILD QUALITY *
Exceptional including the packaging. Feels like £1,500 device if not more. Shame on other manufacturers charging so much, but compromise on build design. The design is subjective, in my opinion it is a first class device which looks like it could fit into a high end Luxury Car.
The best remote control I have seen on any DAC. Brushed black metal, with sensibily laid out buttons. The usability test for me is I can - turn it ON/OFF/VOL UP/DOWN, without looking at the buttons. 


*RELATIVE COMPARISONS NOTES*
The above comparisons I make in comparison to 2 other DACS which I have listened to extensively with the same headphones, Focal Clears. They are the CHORD MOJO, which I own and the QUESTYLE CMA600i. The SONY TA sounds completely different via Optical and the impressions above in number 1 show it to be leagues ahead of the Mojo and Questyle CMA600i. However when listening via USB B the Sony is worse than CMA600i, but this might be to do with my iPad.


----------



## TSAVJason

Soundizer said:


> Here are my impressions of the Sony TA-ZH1ES (DAC/AMP) after listening and owning for 3.5 days.
> 
> *Devices* *connectivity* *chain*:
> 
> ...



Good impression thx for sharing. What I find with USB is I’m ok with it on an inexpensive cable in a car or while flying. I hate it otherwise. I’ve only found USB to be good when using a pretty expensive cable. Of course it’s my opinion others may have opposing opinions.


----------



## Soundizer

TSAVJason said:


> Good impression thx for sharing. What I find with USB is I’m ok with it on an inexpensive cable in a car or while flying. I hate it otherwise. I’ve only found USB to be good when using a pretty expensive cable. Of course it’s my opinion others may have opposing opinions.



Thank you Jason,

Can you recommend an alternative cable. I usually use Audioquest cables at their more entry level.


----------



## TSAVJason

AudioQuest is good and we are a dealer for their products. I’d say there are better choices but sadly 1meter USB cables that really work well are in the $400 -$500 price range. I personally went Kimber Axios but it is far more expensive. It wouldn’t be a cost effective buy in your rig. I would suggest looking at the Nordost Heimdal 2 USB or the Kimber KS2416 or better both can be had for under $500. Both are 3.0 verified and certified  ...... still not cheap but they both would make a significant improvement. You’re welcome to send Alan@thesourceav.com an email to see if we have any special deals on any of them. If you have a local store carrying these products see if you can get a loaner deal happening to be able to audition them.


----------



## Soundizer

Lemieux66 said:


> In answer to your first question, try it yourself. Not sure why you'd ask someone else that question? Don't you trust your own judgement? Afterall, it's you who will be using the gear.
> 
> Personally, I always use DSD Remastering and DSEE. I like these features Sony provides.
> 
> In my experience, the TA works great with a vinyl source. Don't forget most music during production goes through numerous A/D and D/A stages, and vinyl is a more distorted medium than high quality digital.



Thank you. May I ask if you use a Record Player with the TA, but if not what model would you suggest be a good pairing at under 600dollars.


----------



## Lemieux66

Soundizer said:


> Thank you. May I ask if you use a Record Player with the TA, but if not what model would you suggest be a good pairing at under 600dollars.



Hi and thanks. Hope I wasn't too dismissive, like an earlier poster suggested. Apologies if so.

I don't use a turntable directly with my TA; I run and Phono stage and the TA each into separate line inputs on my Leben integrated amplifier. I did do a quick experiment a while back by plugging my Croft tube Phono stage into the TA, playing vinyl from my Pro-ject Classic turntable. You can switch the digitisation rate for this analogue input from various PCM rates up to quad DSD.

I tend to prefer DSD, but that's just me. I tend to think that if no further processing is required then DSD is the best option in most applications.

At your budget of £600 which I guess includes the phono stage cost too, I'd try to get a Rega or Pro-ject deck and a basic starter phono stage. Even a basic Rega or Pro-ject will give plenty of vinyl enjoyment.

In the future, I might use my Sony TA as the preamp in my system and use the TA analogue input with my Croft phono stage full time.


----------



## Soundizer

TSAVJason said:


> AudioQuest is good and we are a dealer for their products. I’d say there are better choices but sadly 1meter USB cables that really work well are in the $400 -$500 price range. I personally went Kimber Axios but it is far more expensive. It wouldn’t be a cost effective buy in your rig. I would suggest looking at the Nordost Heimdal 2 USB or the Kimber KS2416 or better both can be had for under $500. Both are 3.0 verified and certified  ...... still not cheap but they both would make a significant improvement. You’re welcome to send Alan@thesourceav.com an email to see if we have any special deals on any of them. If you have a local store carrying these products see if you can get a loaner deal happening to be able to audition them.




Hi Jason,

May I ask what Gain setting you recommend [LOW] or [HIGH] when driving Sony MDRZ1R and Focal Clear?

Many thanks.

I adjust assumed LOW Gain is for IEM’s so have only been using HIGH. However after changing to Low I notice a slightly less sharp sound.


----------



## nc8000

Soundizer said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> May I ask what Gain setting you recommend [LOW] or [HIGH] when driving Sony MDRZ1R and Focal Clear?
> 
> ...



I run the Z1R on low gain


----------



## Lemieux66

nc8000 said:


> I run the Z1R on low gain



Me too. 

Do you know if the 3.5mm output on the TA converts DSD to PCM like the output on the WM1 players does?


----------



## nc8000

Lemieux66 said:


> Me too.
> 
> Do you know if the 3.5mm output on the TA converts DSD to PCM like the output on the WM1 players does?



No idea, I only have 4.4 phones


----------



## Soundizer (Oct 3, 2018)

I just switched to low Gain and have to turn up volume by 10-12 db.

My imaginary wife tells me off, because she thinks it uses more power at higher volume. Electricity bills.


----------



## TSAVJason

Soundizer said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> May I ask what Gain setting you recommend [LOW] or [HIGH] when driving Sony MDRZ1R and Focal Clear?
> 
> ...



The real difference between high and low probably should be considered a personal choice. In the case of IEMs I’d say low is safer for your ears. In the general sense on your over ear cans just use what you like. The primary difference is how fast you reach the top of the amplifier gain.


----------



## Soundizer

TSAVJason said:


> The real difference between high and low probably should be considered a personal choice. In the case of IEMs I’d say low is safer for your ears. In the general sense on your over ear cans just use what you like. The primary difference is how fast you reach the top of the amplifier gain.



Thank you,

When you are Demo’ing the MDRZ1R with the TA, what do you set it to?


----------



## TSAVJason

Soundizer said:


> Thank you,
> 
> When you are Demo’ing the MDRZ1R with the TA, what do you set it to?



I keep it on LOW unless I’m on a hard set of cans to drive like some of the HiFiMAN or Audeze


----------



## purk

If anything a lower gain should produce slightly more dynamic and less back ground noise due to the available power given the same listening volume.


----------



## Rob49

I've only listened on high gain, just very briefly tried low gain, perhaps i should listen on low gain for a longer period.


----------



## Soundizer

TSAVJason said:


> I keep it on LOW unless I’m on a hard set of cans to drive like some of the HiFiMAN or Audeze



Hello Jason.

I have only connected the TA to my TV and iPad so far. Should I connect it to my Mac Computer and download the latest firmware?


----------



## chaiyuta

Hi Everyone,

This is a 2016 product. Is it possible that SONY will release MK2 or a newer one to replace this product soon? Does anyone know insight news?


----------



## TSAVJason

Soundizer said:


> Hello Jason.
> 
> I have only connected the TA to my TV and iPad so far. Should I connect it to my Mac Computer and download the latest firmware?



Sure! The new firmware has some cool features according to my employees. We did the update a couple days ago on our demos


----------



## Lookout57

TSAVJason said:


> Sure! The new firmware has some cool features according to my employees. We did the update a couple days ago on our demos


New firmware? 

The latest on Sony US Support site is 1.0.3 and dated 03-20-2017


----------



## TSAVJason

Lookout57 said:


> New firmware?
> 
> The latest on Sony US Support site is 1.0.3 and dated 03-20-2017



My error I responded before my coffee  ...the new update we just did was on the Players. I apologize ...I wasn’t really all the way awake yet.


----------



## Lookout57

Dizzle77 said:


> Anybody else had problems installing the new firmware on Mac 10.13? I keep getting the following: _*Update will be terminated becuase the firmware data has collapsed. Error 60002*_





TSAVJason said:


> My error I responded before my coffee  ...the new update we just did was on the Players. I apologize ...I wasn’t really all the way awake yet.


LOL, I know what you mean.


----------



## gsiu33

Using AK240 as a source to TA amp is much better than my Windows Laptop, wider sound stage and much silent background.


----------



## jacksontran41

Can you use the TA-ZH1ES as an Amp/DAC for speakers instead of headphones? Is it any good? And I assume the way to connect it to the speakers is by plugging the 3.5 jack (from the speakers) to the single ended headphone port in the TA? I’m planning to get the TA and this is my only concern, cause I want to use it as DAC for my speakers. Thanks guys!


----------



## nc8000

jacksontran41 said:


> Can you use the TA-ZH1ES as an Amp/DAC for speakers instead of headphones? Is it any good? And I assume the way to connect it to the speakers is by plugging the 3.5 jack (from the speakers) to the single ended headphone port in the TA? I’m planning to get the TA and this is my only concern, cause I want to use it as DAC for my speakers. Thanks guys!



I assume you mean for active speakers ?
The Sony has propper line out on the back so will work well for active speakers. For passive speakers you will need a power amp


----------



## jacksontran41

nc8000 said:


> I assume you mean for active speakers ?
> The Sony has propper line out on the back so will work well for active speakers. For passive speakers you will need a power amp



I'm using a pair of Monkey Banana Turbo 6, can it be connected to the TA and if so which ports should I use? Sorry I'm a newbie audiophile bro hehe


----------



## nc8000

jacksontran41 said:


> I'm using a pair of Monkey Banana Turbo 6, can it be connected to the TA and if so which ports should I use? Sorry I'm a newbie audiophile bro hehe



They are active so you would connect them using the rca line out on the back of the Sony


----------



## jacksontran41

Hi guys,
I have finally purchased the TA and so far I’m very happy with the synergy of Ta and HD 800. I have only one question, what is the DC Phase Linearizer? Does having it on sound better or..?


----------



## Uncle Monty

Was thinking of getting a TA-ZH1ES to use with my AK380 (as transport). Just thinking about it - not sure what sort of upgrade (if any) I could expect from the DAP on its own. On another forum, a poster warned that the Sony software might harm the 380 while another said it would work fine. I'm no expert myself, but has anyone tried using the AK380 with this amp?


----------



## nc8000

jacksontran41 said:


> Hi guys,
> I have finally purchased the TA and so far I’m very happy with the synergy of Ta and HD 800. I have only one question, what is the DC Phase Linearizer? Does having it on sound better or..?



Try it and find out


----------



## purk

Uncle Monty said:


> Was thinking of getting a TA-ZH1ES to use with my AK380 (as transport). Just thinking about it - not sure what sort of upgrade (if any) I could expect from the DAP on its own. On another forum, a poster warned that the Sony software might harm the 380 while another said it would work fine. I'm no expert myself, but has anyone tried using the AK380 with this amp?



I still recommend getting the 1A or ZX300 and a dedicated digital out dock for better results.  That Sony digital out dock has a dedicated IC and very nice capacitors to produce very nice sound.  I like it better than my computer as source anyway.   Is the AK380 a coaxial or USB out?  I still think that an I2S and coaxial are still better than most USB digital outputs.


----------



## jacksontran41

nc8000 said:


> Try it and find out


I have tried and really can’t notice any difference.


----------



## nc8000

jacksontran41 said:


> I have tried and really can’t notice any difference.



Then you have your answer.


----------



## Uncle Monty

purk said:


> I still recommend getting the 1A or ZX300 and a dedicated digital out dock for better results.  That Sony digital out dock has a dedicated IC and very nice capacitors to produce very nice sound.  I like it better than my computer as source anyway.   Is the AK380 a coaxial or USB out?  I still think that an I2S and coaxial are still better than most USB digital outputs.


I know but I I just feel that I've already got a DAP I can use as a transport - do I want to buy another DAP just to use this amp? Going down the Hugo TT2 route might be an option - can you point me to any comparison tests between the TA-ZH1ES and the Chord Hugo TT2 (or even Hugo2)?


----------



## purk (Oct 22, 2018)

Uncle Monty said:


> I know but I I just feel that I've already got a DAP I can use as a transport - do I want to buy another DAP just to use this amp? Going down the Hugo TT2 route might be an option - can you point me to any comparison tests between the TA-ZH1ES and the Chord Hugo TT2 (or even Hugo2)?


Can't help with the Chord comparison.  If you already have a AK380, then just stick with it.  Is it a USB or Coaxial out?  Can it output DSD digital out, because Sony NW-A30 series, ZX300, and 1A &  1Z can.

Just found out that the AK380 only have optical output (correct me if I'm wrong).  If that's the case, I recommend you getting the A35 or A45 as a transport.  Optical output has the least fidelity compared to others including USB and most optical output will not handle DSD signal and usually max out at 24/192.

Edited:  I believe the AK380 did receive the USB digital out update last year.  Not sure if it is capable of a DSD digital output or not.  Some older models converted DSD to 24-88.2 digital out signal.  My Fiio X5 does that as well as the AK100.  My ZX2, ZX1, and ZX100 digital out DSD as 24-176.4 signal.


----------



## nc8000 (Oct 22, 2018)

purk said:


> Can't help with the Chord comparison.  If you already have a AK380, then just stick with it.  Is it a USB or Coaxial out?  Can it output DSD digital out, because Sony NW-A30 series, ZX300, and 1A &  1Z can.
> 
> Just found out that the AK380 only have optical output (correct me if I'm wrong).  If that's the case, I recommend you getting the A35 or A45 as a transport.  Optical output has the least fidelity compared to others including USB and most optical output will not handle DSD signal and usually max out at 24/192.



Or get something like the Auralic Aries Mini and put a hdd or ssd of your required size in it, that’s what I have for my home rig and I’m very happy with it. It does however require an iOS device in order to control it. It will also work as a Tidal or Quoboz client and can even handle mqa from Tidal


----------



## Rob49

How many of you have the TA paired with the Z1R ? Thinking of buying the Z1R, but have bever spent this kind of money on headphones before.....i'd never bought anything so expensive, until i purchased my TA. ( Don't regret that purchase, at all, but don't want to pay even more for headphones, to be disappointed in any way. )


----------



## purk

Rob49 said:


> How many of you have the TA paired with the Z1R ? Thinking of buying the Z1R, but have bever spent this kind of money on headphones before.....i'd never bought anything so expensive, until i purchased my TA. ( Don't regret that purchase, at all, but don't want to pay even more for headphones, to be disappointed in any way. )



I would go with the HD800 instead of the Z1R unless you want a closed headphones.  To my ears, the TA-ZH1ES is a better match to the HD-800 compared to the Z1R.  My HD800 has a HDR modded and recabled with Moon-Audio Black Dragon.


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> How many of you have the TA paired with the Z1R ? Thinking of buying the Z1R, but have bever spent this kind of money on headphones before.....i'd never bought anything so expensive, until i purchased my TA. ( Don't regret that purchase, at all, but don't want to pay even more for headphones, to be disappointed in any way. )



I have the pair and love it but would say that you should audition the Z1R before buying as it has a very different sound sig that is rather polarising


----------



## Rob49

^ ^ ^

Thanks guys, for your feedback. I can't audition any headphones, unfortunately. ( I'm basically housebound. )

I've read a fair bit of positive feedback for the Z1R's, but i guess that's probably the same for the HD800, too !


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> ^ ^ ^
> 
> Thanks guys, for your feedback. I can't audition any headphones, unfortunately. ( I'm basically housebound. )
> 
> I've read a fair bit of positive feedback for the Z1R's, but i guess that's probably the same for the HD800, too !



They are both amazing but very different phones


----------



## naynay

Experienced TA-ZH1ES users which Headphone output gives the best sound i have one on order and also ordering headphones so need to know the best suited cable plugs?
Thanks.


----------



## mrtim6 (Oct 22, 2018)

Rob49 said:


> How many of you have the TA paired with the Z1R ? Thinking of buying the Z1R, but have bever spent this kind of money on headphones before.....i'd never bought anything so expensive, until i purchased my TA. ( Don't regret that purchase, at all, but don't want to pay even more for headphones, to be disappointed in any way. )



I have both headphones and it would depend on the type of music you listen too predominately as well. I find the HD800 (not the S version) excellent with really well recorded music - good dynamic range, it excels with classical and jazz. The Sony is a better all rounder in that it is more forgiving with low fi recordings such as edm, pop etc. The HD800 is more realistic, detailed and on some recordings bright and or sterile. The Z1R is warmer, less detailed, still a very good headphone. Remember the HD800 is open and the Z1R is closed, so if your listening environment is noisy the Z1R will have an advantage.
I would try before you buy as you are concerned about the cost. Ah I see you can’t- well that’s hard then because I have no idea what kind of music you like.


----------



## purk

I would get the HD800S version.


----------



## Rob49 (Oct 22, 2018)

mrtim6 said:


> I have both headphones and it would depend on the type of music you listen too predominately as well. I find the HD800 (not the S version) excellent with really well recorded music - good dynamic range, it excels with classical and jazz. The Sony is a better all rounder in that it is more forgiving with low fi recordings such as edm, pop etc. The HD800 is more realistic, detailed and on some recordings bright and or sterile. The Z1R is warmer, less detailed, still a very good headphone. Remember the HD800 is open and the Z1R is closed, so if your listening environment is noisy the Z1R will have an advantage.
> I would try before you buy as you are concerned about the cost. Ah I see you can’t- well that’s hard then because I have no idea what kind of music you like.



Thanks for your feedback. I listen to all kinds of music. What i love about the TA, that every music genre i've listened to, has been so good, amazing, at it's best & i want a headphone that will give me the wow factor. ( Just like the TA. ) The Z1R as an all rounder, sounds promising & what i'm probably veering to ?

( My music collection is mainly pop & rock. )


----------



## Lookout57

The TA and Z1R sound best using a balanced connection and an all copper cable. The stock cable is silver plated and to me had less bass impact and made the highs harsh. If you can go for it, the Kimber AXIOS Cu is a great cable. As it restored the bass impact and smoothed out the highs. Otherwise I would look at the Sony Kimber or another pure copper cable.


----------



## Rob49 (Oct 22, 2018)

Lookout57 said:


> The TA and Z1R sound best using a balanced connection and an all copper cable. The stock cable is silver plated and to me had less bass impact and made the highs harsh. If you can go for it, the Kimber AXIOS Cu is a great cable. As it restored the bass impact and smoothed out the highs. Otherwise I would look at the Sony Kimber or another pure copper cable.



Thanks for feedback. I do use balanced connection & do have pure copper cables, with the headphones i own.

( On a side note, finally sorted out connection, for use with speakers & have to say, ( Just like headphone use. ) i've never heard the detail like this before. ( Just another reason, to buy the TA, for those still sitting on the fence ? )


----------



## purk

If you have a chance, try them out both and report back.  My SDR modded HD800 sure won me over the Z1R on both the 1Z & TA-ZH1ES system.


----------



## Russell

Rob49 said:


> How many of you have the TA paired with the Z1R ? Thinking of buying the Z1R, but have bever spent this kind of money on headphones before.....i'd never bought anything so expensive, until i purchased my TA. ( Don't regret that purchase, at all, but don't want to pay even more for headphones, to be disappointed in any way. )



As long as you’re thinking of spending this amount of $$$$ on headphones, I’d also consider the Audeze line. I’ve got my TA paired with Audeze LCD-3’s, and it’s quite a marvelous sound. (From what I’ve read, I kind of suspect that the Sony ‘phones would sound more like the LCD-3’s than the Senns, but I could very well be totally wrong, as I’ve never heard the Sony’s. FWIW, I’ve never been enamoured by the Senns.)


----------



## Lookout57

When I was auditioning headphones I listened to the LCD-3 and LCD-4 alongside the Z1R on the TA. I found that the Sony had much better bass with details that equaled the Audeze. The only thing that the Audeze did better than the Sony was that it had a larger soundstage.


----------



## Rob49

Russell said:


> As long as you’re thinking of spending this amount of $$$$ on headphones, I’d also consider the Audeze line. I’ve got my TA paired with Audeze LCD-3’s, and it’s quite a marvelous sound. (From what I’ve read, I kind of suspect that the Sony ‘phones would sound more like the LCD-3’s than the Senns, but I could very well be totally wrong, as I’ve never heard the Sony’s. FWIW, I’ve never been enamoured by the Senns.)



I know the most important thing is the sound, but the Audeze line of headphones, look extremely heavy, & i'd imagine uncomfortable to wear, besides a definite contender, of being the ugliest looking. ( Like two housebricks attached to your ears, except they're round. )

Not for me....and even more expensive.


----------



## Lemieux66

@Rob49

If you want to try out the Z1R, just order them from Amazon and return them for a full refund if they're not to your liking. You're well with your rights to do so.


----------



## Rob49

Yes, that is an option @Lemieux66 ( I'm hoping that i wouldn't want to return them ? ) Do you own them ?


----------



## GoDiSLoVe (Oct 23, 2018)

I own HD800S and Z1R.
They are both fantastic headphones. But if I had to pick one i would definitely go with Z1R.
Simply because I enjoy more genres with them. 
In other words it allows me to listen to different types of music. 
Of course that's my taste.

Also a sub-note - even tough HD800S has improved bass (compared to HD800) its still nowhere close to Z1R
So if having a powerful bass is a requirement for you, you might consider that.


----------



## kp297

Keep in mind the Z1R was specifically developed for the TAZH1ES. This combination gives you the best synergy between an amplifier, DAC, and headphone you can get. 
I find the Z1R has the perfect combination of comfort, addicting yet relaxing sound with a speaker like presentation (it was tuned after Duntech studio speakers) and craftsmanship. After the Z1R for several months I’ve found that this headphone is a love letter to jazz, it is far better than the Sennheiser HD800S in this regard. See the video below.


----------



## Russell

Rob49 said:


> I know the most important thing is the sound, but the Audeze line of headphones, look extremely heavy, & i'd imagine uncomfortable to wear, besides a definite contender, of being the ugliest looking. ( Like two housebricks attached to your ears, except they're round. )
> 
> Not for me....and even more expensive.



True, the LCD-3’s aren’t the lightest headphones around, but they are far from uncomfortable. The lambskin material really cushions your head and its weight is well distributed. I often wear mine for 2-3 hours at a time with no issues at all. As for how it looks, well, I guess it’s a matter of personal taste....


----------



## purk

Headphones aside, I think we have to agree how well built the TA-ZH1ES.  Sony really did a great job on this one.


----------



## Lemieux66

Rob49 said:


> Yes, that is an option @Lemieux66 ( I'm hoping that i wouldn't want to return them ? ) Do you own them ?



Yes, I own the TA, Z1R and also the 1A.

Used to use the 1A for most of my listening but now I have a Roon Nucleus with an iPad for control. Sometimes I use the Nucleus headphone Crossfeed function which works well


----------



## Rob49

Lemieux66 said:


> Yes, I own the TA, Z1R and also the 1A.
> 
> Used to use the 1A for most of my listening but now I have a Roon Nucleus with an iPad for control. Sometimes I use the Nucleus headphone Crossfeed function which works well



Don't know what a Roon Nucleus is ? Never heard of that brand. ( I use my ZX2 & have thought of buying a 1A, besides the Z1R. ) Are you happy with the Z1R's ?


----------



## Lemieux66

Rob49 said:


> Don't know what a Roon Nucleus is ? Never heard of that brand. ( I use my ZX2 & have thought of buying a 1A, besides the Z1R. ) Are you happy with the Z1R's ?



Yes, I’m happy with the Z1R. I like the combination with the TA. I only just bought a 3m balanced XLR4 copper cable for it. I sit quite a way from the system and have been using the stock 3m single-ended cable up to now. It was only £58 from eBay, but it allows me to use balanced output so I’m happy with it. I really liked the LCD3 and admired the HD800 but the Z1R with TA is the best option for me. Of course, my memories of STAX 007 ownership play on my mind sometimes too.

[The Roon Nucleus is a small music server to which I’ve fitted a 2TB SSD with all my music inside. The Roon software is very good and the iPad provides a great interface for browsing my music. The Nucleus, SSD and iPad cost me £2000 but I wouldn’t be without Roon now. Plugging in a DAP as source is so limited].


----------



## Rob49

Lemieux66 said:


> Yes, I’m happy with the Z1R. I like the combination with the TA. I only just bought a 3m balanced XLR4 copper cable for it. I sit quite a way from the system and have been using the stock 3m single-ended cable up to now. It was only £58 from eBay, but it allows me to use balanced output so I’m happy with it. I really liked the LCD3 and admired the HD800 but the Z1R with TA is the best option for me. Of course, my memories of STAX 007 ownership play on my mind sometimes too.
> 
> [The Roon Nucleus is a small music server to which I’ve fitted a 2TB SSD with all my music inside. The Roon software is very good and the iPad provides a great interface for browsing my music. The Nucleus, SSD and iPad cost me £2000 but I wouldn’t be without Roon now. Plugging in a DAP as source is so limited].



Thanks Greg, for your feedback. I'm certainly veering towards the Z1R. I think for the fact that i'm so happy with my TA, so i think it's unlikely i'd be disappointed ? I listen balanced all the time, infact if i now listen unbalanced, i soon switch back.

Thanks for explanation of Roon Nucleus. ( I don't own an ipad. ) Love of audio, is a greatly enjoyable hobby, but it can also be expensive, too. ( Which of course, we all know ! )


----------



## ACheah

Hey Guys, after lusting and wanting the TA-ZH1ES, i finally pulled the trigger and got 1. Now my question is what USB cable is good to get for this badboy. Any Suggestions is welcome. Thank you


----------



## purk

ACheah said:


> Hey Guys, after lusting and wanting the TA-ZH1ES, i finally pulled the trigger and got 1. Now my question is what USB cable is good to get for this badboy. Any Suggestions is welcome. Thank you



I go with a silver conductor cable.  A solid silver USB cable will tighten up the bass and add a little more speed to the sound.  A more extended treble doesn't hurt either.  Best to go with silver-gold conductor USB cable but that can be pricey!


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 24, 2018)

kp297 said:


> Keep in mind the Z1R was specifically developed for the TAZH1ES. This combination gives you the best synergy between an amplifier, DAC, and headphone you can get.
> I find the Z1R has the perfect combination of comfort, addicting yet relaxing sound with a speaker like presentation (it was tuned after Duntech studio speakers) and craftsmanship. After the Z1R for several months I’ve found that this headphone is a love letter to jazz, it is far better than the Sennheiser HD800S in this regard. See the video below.




The two join so well together especially with the Sony MUC-B20SB1 cable. Adding the cable takes the Z1R to an extra level both in definition and bass texture. I almost wonder if there would have been better consistency of Z1R opinions if the TA was always used to power the headphones?



ACheah said:


> Hey Guys, after lusting and wanting the TA-ZH1ES, i finally pulled the trigger and got 1. Now my question is what USB cable is good to get for this badboy. Any Suggestions is welcome. Thank you



One suggestion around is the AudioQuest Carbon or Cinnamon USB. Typically they have been used to join the Sony Dock holding a DAP for the TA amp. I have one arriving in two weeks so l’ll post any improvements if they happen.


----------



## Lookout57

I second the Audioquest Carbon or Cinnamon. 

I have the Carbon to attach my WM1Z in the Sony dock to the TA and the Cinnamon to attach my WM1A in the Sony dock on my other TA.


----------



## nghenhac

hi guys,
I remember someone here said this amp sound just so so when using usb. However, he was not sure it might that his ipad/macbook had problem.
So, had anyone using it using usb and listen through headphone?

Please let me know.
thankyou.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 25, 2018)

nghenhac said:


> hi guys,
> I remember someone here said this amp sound just so so when using usb. However, he was not sure it might that his ipad/macbook had problem.
> So, had anyone using it using usb and listen through headphone?
> 
> ...



There are many ways to get music into the Sony TA-ZH1ES DAC/AMP. All the ways sound incredible and are easy as pie to get going. The Sony dock is one of the best regarded ways. One member found a site where they disassembled the dock showing the helpful circuitry. We may be in the realm of placebo or my hearing can't distinguish the difference using the DAPs or a computer?

Truthfully though using regular USB cables it may just sound slightly better using the dock. The included mini-USB joins the 1A/1Z to the side of the Sony TA-ZH1ES DAC/AMP unit. There is also a small additional connection but it serves as physical support for the tiny USB plug.The side connection is regarded as the third best route. The second way is to connect using a regular USB cable with the dongle and Sony DAP, in two weeks I get a AudioQuest Carbon which may make a difference? But the USB cable can be used with the dongle from the bottom of the DAP, or regular USB from a computer to the TA amp in the rear.

The dock has mini USB to go computer in or through, and a full size USB out to the TA amp. In the picture I'm using a mini USB to hook up a Macbook Air to the 1Z using it as a DAC.

_*But using a Sony DAP or a computer seems to sound the same so far?  *_

So rumor has it that the dock and Sony DAP with AudioQuest Carbon is the way to go. One thing I can verify is the Toslink SPDIF RCA going in from a CD transport is miles below using the computer or dock. Don't know why this would be but it's noticeable side by side. So your best ripping your CDs to the computer or loading the DAPs with files. This is quite the statement from me as I have thought CDs in a transport were better than computer audio up until the TA amp arrived.


----------



## One and a half

The main reason for the TA-ZH1ES was for its ability to accept DSD256 on USB, and use the line out to a pre-amp. The HP section was a nice bonus. To have a good shot at USB input, from a Mac mini output, was no go Joe. Far too rough a diamond. Added an ifi microUSB3.0, this smoothed the rough edges out, but not completely. Tried a Xeon computer with usb extender, was a lot better, but did not compare with a rotating CD/SACD from this player.

OK, canned that approach, and used the RCA Line out from the pre-amp to the line in and used the various outputs on either HD800S or HD820. Getting closer. Something is still not right, still that bland non engaging sound, is it the DSD treatment on the line in, had it set to DSD128, DSEE HX was off did very little. On the HD800S, used the XLR4 out on the HD820 the standard 1/4in TRS.

Last night made a lengthy comparison between the SE headphone output  from an Accuphase C-2420 pre-amp to the Sony and found a vast difference between the two, with the pre-amp a lot more _drive_ (with a +10db boost in volume to compensate for the 'high' impedance of the Sennheiser). The pre-amp has an immediate presence of authority that the Sony could not match. I could listen to the pre-amp for a long time with ease, the Sony was only a few minutes and the sound became boring and fatiguing.

What the Sony is good at though is accepting the coax input from a BD player with movies, thumbs up there, but for music, it's not for me. YMMV.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 25, 2018)

One and a half said:


> The main reason for the TA-ZH1ES was for its ability to accept DSD256 on USB, and use the line out to a pre-amp. The HP section was a nice bonus. To have a good shot at USB input, from a Mac mini output, was no go Joe. Far too rough a diamond. Added an ifi microUSB3.0, this smoothed the rough edges out, but not completely. Tried a Xeon computer with usb extender, was a lot better, but did not compare with a rotating CD/SACD from this player.
> 
> OK, canned that approach, and used the RCA Line out from the pre-amp to the line in and used the various outputs on either HD800S or HD820. Getting closer. Something is still not right, still that bland non engaging sound, is it the DSD treatment on the line in, had it set to DSD128, DSEE HX was off did very little. On the HD800S, used the XLR4 out on the HD820 the standard 1/4in TRS.
> 
> ...



The bypass of computer input has been my MO for years. What........... doing away with dirty and unstable USB digital signals. So what your saying with the Accuphase makes complete sense to me. Actually I thought getting DAPs as a file server was a way for me to bypass computers all together. But in my system the computer sounds good going into the TA? I had to climb down from my anti-computer audio soapbox............all those rants...you know.


So when you hooked up the Accuphase as a transport you obtained better results with the DSD up-sampling lowered?


----------



## One and a half

Redcarmoose said:


> The bypass of computer input has been my MO for years. What........... doing away with dirty and unstable USB digital signals. So what your saying with the Accuphase makes complete sense to me. Actually I thought getting DAPs as a file server was a way for me to bypass computers all together. But in my system the computer sounds good going into the TA? I had to climb down from my anti-computer audio soapbox............all those rants...you know.
> 
> 
> So when you hooked up the Accuphase as a transport you obtained better results with the DSD up-sampling off?



The joy of USB is its bandwidth, like DSD1024(!), at the expense of containing or reflecting the noise back to the source which is not easy. I've tried iGalvanic and Intona with very limited effect plus many other method$, so have given up on computer derived playback to try and match CD/SACD and relegate it to the class of radio and I won't be disappointing....

Far as I am aware, the Sony converts the RCA analog in to DSD or PCM (not sure), so it's never a straight wire with gain. Not too sure why they did this, perhaps there's too much digital noise for the analog inputs to reject noise?


----------



## nc8000

One and a half said:


> The joy of USB is its bandwidth, like DSD1024(!), at the expense of containing or reflecting the noise back to the source which is not easy. I've tried iGalvanic and Intona with very limited effect plus many other method$, so have given up on computer derived playback to try and match CD/SACD and relegate it to the class of radio and I won't be disappointing....
> 
> Far as I am aware, the Sony converts the RCA analog in to DSD or PCM (not sure), so it's never a straight wire with gain. Not too sure why they did this, perhaps there's too much digital noise for the analog inputs to reject noise?



They convert to dsd. The reason is that everything inside happens in the digital domain. I’m very happy with the Auralic Aries Mini via usb as source


----------



## Redcarmoose

One and a half said:


> The joy of USB is its bandwidth, like DSD1024(!), at the expense of containing or reflecting the noise back to the source which is not easy. I've tried iGalvanic and Intona with very limited effect plus many other method$, so have given up on computer derived playback to try and match CD/SACD and relegate it to the class of radio and I won't be disappointing....
> 
> Far as I am aware, the Sony converts the RCA analog in to DSD or PCM (not sure), so it's never a straight wire with gain. Not too sure why they did this, perhaps there's too much digital noise for the analog inputs to reject noise?



I don’t have your SACD/CD player, also it sounds like your only using the TA as a preamp? But every system is different as well as each person is looking for something in the signature. 

For years and years I’ve hated computer audio. Something about the timing in Foobar2000 before WASAPI was set up. And.........it set up a phobia in my mind that the timing was not right. CDs off a transport sounded correct, computers no. 

And I’m not using speakers nor other amplifiers, just some headphones with the TA. So the original question about computers sounding off on the TA could absolutely be true. But again, this all comes down to the convoluted timing issues; which you bypass pretty much with a CD player. 

I just seemed to get good authority and detail from the TA, so I started to forget about my USB timing placebo/anti placebo issues.


----------



## Lemieux66

I use the TA via the bundled USB cable with a Roon Nucleus. It's superb. Can't complain at all. Z1R for headphones, plus Leben/Harbeth for speaker sound.

I'd be interested to try a different USB cable but I'm in no rush.


----------



## Rob49

One and a half said:


> What the Sony is good at though is accepting the coax input from a BD player with movies, thumbs up there, but for music, it's not for me. YMMV.



How would you describe the improvement ? I'm assuming you're talking audio wise ?


----------



## Rob49

Guys, i just wanted to look at the manual to the TA & decided to look on their site. ( Sony U.K. ) & the TA isn't showing. ( I could have sworn there was an "amplifier" section, but can't see that either ?? ) Strange, perhaps updating that page ??


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> Guys, i just wanted to look at the manual to the TA & decided to look on their site. ( Sony U.K. ) & the TA isn't showing. ( I could have sworn there was an "amplifier" section, but can't see that either ?? ) Strange, perhaps updating that page ??



https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es


----------



## Rob49

nc8000 said:


> https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es



Thanks for that, but interesting ( or not interesting ! ) that the product page - headphone amplifier page isn't showing.....i think i've got too much time to think ! lol


----------



## Redcarmoose

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for that, but interesting ( or not interesting ! ) that the product page - headphone amplifier page isn't showing.....i think i've got too much time to think ! lol



Just buy one and you will not have to read about them.


----------



## Rob49

Redcarmoose said:


> Just buy one and you will not have to read about them.



I've been the proud owner of one since July 24th, 2018. ( I just couldn't be bothered to get up & get the manual ! lol )


----------



## Soundizer

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for that, but interesting ( or not interesting ! ) that the product page - headphone amplifier page isn't showing.....i think i've got too much time to think ! lol



Yes you are right, there is something strange happening 0n Sony.co.uk website.

The TA, SONY MDRZ1R and 2 premium NW WALKMANS are all gone. Also the Z1R now has 1-3month wait on Amazon website = selling direct and fulfilled by Amazon. The other strange thing is the TA just went up from £1,499 to £1,640 from Amazon.co.uk = sold/fulfilled via Amazon.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Rob49 said:


> I've been the proud owner of one since July 24th, 2018. ( I just couldn't be bothered to get up & get the manual ! lol )



I’ve never read the manual either. With the remote and top buttons it’s easy. Probably the ease of use is my favorite aspect besides the sound........uh and the looks.......uh ...  and the construction...and the feel?


----------



## One and a half

Rob49 said:


> How would you describe the improvement ? I'm assuming you're talking audio wise ?


Of the movies I watch there’s dialogue, bgm and maybe some special effects, that’s about it. The BD player converts the audio to 96. The rich harmonics aren’t there compared to music , speech is very easy for the ear to interpret, gross inaccuracies are easily glossed over. 
Film has the image in front of your eyes, an audio image is created by listening and the craft of the recording.


----------



## Rob49

Soundizer said:


> Yes you are right, there is something strange happening 0n Sony.co.uk website.
> 
> The TA, SONY MDRZ1R and 2 premium NW WALKMANS are all gone. Also the Z1R now has 1-3month wait on Amazon website = selling direct and fulfilled by Amazon. The other strange thing is the TA just went up from £1,499 to £1,640 from Amazon.co.uk = sold/fulfilled via Amazon.



All noted !.....i better order those Z1R's.....before they become, "currently unavailable".


----------



## Rob49

One and a half said:


> Of the movies I watch there’s dialogue, bgm and maybe some special effects, that’s about it. The BD player converts the audio to 96. The rich harmonics aren’t there compared to music , speech is very easy for the ear to interpret, gross inaccuracies are easily glossed over.
> Film has the image in front of your eyes, an audio image is created by listening and the craft of the recording.



I'll have to try connecting to my Blu Ray player, but can't imagine it's better than the typical connection of HDMI ??


----------



## One and a half

Rob49 said:


> I'll have to try connecting to my Blu Ray player, but can't imagine it's better than the typical connection of HDMI ??


HDMI audio is an open ended system, reeks of irregular waveforms, was going to say jitter, but NM. Pioneer are reviving their PQLS audio for their blu-ray players and receivers to lock the chain a lot tighter than open ended signals. You could also use a reclocker to clean up the audio signal on S/PDIF, but for movies, IMHO, not necessary.


----------



## Rob49

One and a half said:


> HDMI audio is an open ended system, reeks of irregular waveforms, was going to say jitter, but NM. Pioneer are reviving their PQLS audio for their blu-ray players and receivers to lock the chain a lot tighter than open ended signals. You could also use a reclocker to clean up the audio signal on S/PDIF, but for movies, IMHO, not necessary.



Thanks for that info. I learn things on this forum. I'm just trying it now, with my Sony 4K X800 player, expecting not to be able to get Dolby Atmos, over coaxial, but it's displaying on my receiver. ( Excuse my ignorance. ) Only tried a couple of movies so far, but the audio sounds excellent.


----------



## One and a half

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for that info. I learn things on this forum. I'm just trying it now, with my Sony 4K X800 player, expecting not to be able to get Dolby Atmos, over coaxial, but it's displaying on my receiver. ( Excuse my ignorance. ) Only tried a couple of movies so far, but the audio sounds excellent.



I also have the X800, it’s a great 4K player! The coax out is programmable for PCM only, currently have this set to 96, sort of 2x BD audio. It will downmix all audio to 2CH, so no sounds are missed out.


----------



## Rob49

One and a half said:


> I also have the X800, it’s a great 4K player! The coax out is programmable for PCM only, currently have this set to 96, sort of 2x BD audio. It will downmix all audio to 2CH, so no sounds are missed out.



I thiught that would be so.


----------



## Soundizer

The new Ether 2 Headphones have a 4.4mm connection. Interesting to see any reviews on how it pairs with the TA.


----------



## naynay (Nov 1, 2018)

.


----------



## Soundizer

naynay said:


> Selling my Sony TA-ZH1ES Headphone Amplifier only 5 months old if anyone interested?
> Thanks.


Why selling?


----------



## Soundizer

Rob49 said:


> I thiught that would be so.



Curious to know why not use Optical Out or Coax Out directly from your TV as that way you can listen to all Audio and not just from the X800 Player?


----------



## Uncle Monty

naynay said:


> Selling my Sony TA-ZH1ES Headphone Amplifier only 5 months old if anyone interested?
> Thanks.


I might have pm'd you but got Hugo TT2 home for a trial. Why selling?


----------



## naynay (Nov 1, 2018)

Soundizer said:


> Why selling?


.


----------



## naynay

Uncle Monty said:


> I might have pm'd you but got Hugo TT2 home for a trial. Why selling?



I am also looking at getting Hugo TT2 with M Scaler.


----------



## Uncle Monty

naynay said:


> I am also looking at getting Hugo TT2 with M Scaler.


I think I'm going in that same direction. Might have to put the MScaler off until next Xmas though!


----------



## naynay (Nov 8, 2018)

.


----------



## vcmusik

For curiosity's sake does anyone know the real output impedance of the TA-ZH1ES? I'm taking the spec of "8-600 Ohms" with a grain of salt, more of an "acceptable headphone impedance range", which holds true given they can power my K240 Sextetts and Beyer T1.2 quite adequately.


----------



## quoji (Nov 21, 2018)

Has anyone used the ZH1 as just a DAC and sent to a tube amp?  It's a solid performing DAC, but thought it might be fun to find other amp synergies if there are any recommendations (especially when you want to dial in a different flavor than the ZH1's smooth default sound).


----------



## adidas128

How does the TA-ZH1ES compare to audio gd master 9?


----------



## zakazak

How does the ZH1ES compare to smth like Schiit Bifrost Mulitbit + Valhalla 2?

I have a lot of Sony ES gear that I mainly use for my speaker setup and wondered if an ES gear also makes sense for my HD600/660S/800 in terms of price vs. performance?
e.g. if I could get similiar/better performance for a way lower price (currently 1800€ in Europe).

What still worries me is all the converting stuff that the Sony ES does or can do. Isn't that falsifying the actual song? Shouldn't it be left original instead of converting it to a "better quality"?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Nov 26, 2018)

zakazak said:


> How does the ZH1ES compare to smth like Schiit Bifrost Mulitbit + Valhalla 2?
> 
> I have a lot of Sony ES gear that I mainly use for my speaker setup and wondered if an ES gear also makes sense for my HD600/660S/800 in terms of price vs. performance?
> e.g. if I could get similiar/better performance for a way lower price (currently 1800€ in Europe).
> ...




That’s is the riddle. In purity of audio concepts, trying to get closer to the actual file or signal should always be the end goal. This is a concept which also keeps the same type of listener from using EQ, as they feel it adds a distortion.

This idea of transparency is in a way simple, so we end with ideas of filters being like reverb and adding an effect which falsifies the reality. Here though the effect is enhancing reality. I leave both settings (DSEE HX) and (The DSD remastering engine) on all the time, though there was a post a couple posts back where he thought in his speaker rig that an adjustment to a different level of DSD upscale sounded better in an instance.


 The DSD upscale is (in my opinion) taking and enhancing reality. Somehow the chip programming is like a little onboard computer which studies the signal, somehow understands harmonic qualities which are the truth for the isolates of instrumentation and adds to each instrument or sound parallel to what a better recording would be in life. In my use it never degrades the sound, like adding a loss of timing or blurring tone.

It’s not like those sunglasses which are a different color, but make stuff look extra clear when your eyes adjust. The effect is the audio equivalent to taking out one degrading step in the recording process, getting us closer to the music.

On a different subject I received the AudioQuest Carbon USB cable and it has added better sound quality with the dock and TA, in tests where I could see I’m using the new cable.

Maybe tomorrow I will do a blind test to see if I can distinguish the $170 cable from regular HP drugstore USB cables. Also this.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/why...uch-a-difference.855479/page-88#post-14621862


----------



## Redcarmoose (Nov 26, 2018)

ACheah said:


> Hey Guys, after lusting and wanting the TA-ZH1ES, i finally pulled the trigger and got 1. Now my question is what USB cable is good to get for this badboy. Any Suggestions is welcome. Thank you





Lookout57 said:


> I second the Audioquest Carbon or Cinnamon.
> 
> I have the Carbon to attach my WM1Z in the Sony dock to the TA and the Cinnamon to attach my WM1A in the Sony dock on my other TA.



In sighted tests the $170 AudioQuest Carbon USB introduces a better bass detail response going from dock to TA amp using Z1R headphones and Kimber Kable. The treble is slightly expanded and more detailed. Overall imaging has been refined and delineated. Everything somehow seems faster. As posted earlier, blind tests will be done soon to see if I could pick the cable out amung three drugstore USB cables being randomly switched in....or not.


----------



## AmusedToD

Is the TA a good match for the Focal Utopia? Trying to decide on a proper DAC/amp for these cans (currently driving them out of the QP2R DAP). 

I have my eyes set on these options:

1. Sony TA-ZH1ES (beautiful, multiple balanced and unbalanced connections, very versatile)
2. Woo Audio WA8 (beautiful, portable, limited availability in Europe)
3. Questyle CMA800i (proven synergy with Focal cans)
4. RME ADI DAC (cheapest of the bunch, not a fan of its looks)

Any opinions of the above options? 

Are there any TA-ZH1ES owners in Europe willing to part with the device? I might be willing to buy one


----------



## danielgregori

Hello! Tell me please which amplifier will be better for z1r - Sony brand TA or Schiit Yggdrasil?


----------



## AmusedToD

Finally got the device, first impressions are phenomenal... The synergy with the Utopia is magical!

Anyways, while it's burning in, I'd like to ask a question in regards to Roon ROCK and TA compatibility. Under ROCK there is no option to set up "native DSD" transfer method, only DSD over PCM.


 

Any ideas?


----------



## Redcarmoose

AmusedToD said:


> Finally got the device, first impressions are phenomenal... The synergy with the Utopia is magical!
> 
> Anyways, while it's burning in, I'd like to ask a question in regards to Roon ROCK and TA compatibility. Under ROCK there is no option to set up "native DSD" transfer method, only DSD over PCM.
> 
> ...



Enjoy!


----------



## tradyblix

AmusedToD said:


> Finally got the device, first impressions are phenomenal... The synergy with the Utopia is magical!
> 
> Anyways, while it's burning in, I'd like to ask a question in regards to Roon ROCK and TA compatibility. Under ROCK there is no option to set up "native DSD" transfer method, only DSD over PCM.
> 
> ...



DSD over PCM is still DSD. It's just the transfer method. It doesn't matter; part of why you paid so much money for your Tazzy is that it can convert PCM to DSD on the fly. Any high quality PCM source will be DSD with DSD remastering on. 

If you're a true purist, you'll want a player that can output DSD to DSD and your device should show that.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Dec 28, 2018)

AmusedToD said:


> Finally got the device, first impressions are phenomenal... The synergy with the Utopia is magical!
> 
> Anyways, while it's burning in, I'd like to ask a question in regards to Roon ROCK and TA compatibility. Under ROCK there is no option to set up "native DSD" transfer method, only DSD over PCM.
> 
> ...





tradyblix said:


> DSD over PCM is still DSD. It's just the transfer method. It doesn't matter; part of why you paid so much money for your Tazzy is that it can convert PCM to DSD on the fly. Any high quality PCM source will be DSD with DSD remastering on.
> 
> If you're a true purist, you'll want a player that can output DSD to DSD and your device should show that.



So when he gets a 1A?

From the Walkman information page:


“Q4: Is native DSD playback possible by USB DAC?

A4: Yes, it is. (DSD 2.8MHz/1bit and 5.6MHz/1bit are supported)
For native DSD playback, a device and an application that support native DSD playback are necessary.
To perform native DSD playback, check the settings and specifications of your playback device and application.”


----------



## tradyblix

Redcarmoose said:


> So when he gets a 1A?
> 
> From the Walkman information page:
> 
> ...



The TA-ZH1ES supports native DSD playback. Unlike every other device on the market, it also can transcode sources in real time to DSD.


----------



## Lemieux66

AmusedToD said:


> Finally got the device, first impressions are phenomenal... The synergy with the Utopia is magical!
> 
> Anyways, while it's burning in, I'd like to ask a question in regards to Roon ROCK and TA compatibility. Under ROCK there is no option to set up "native DSD" transfer method, only DSD over PCM.
> 
> ...



Roon Rock runs on Linux. Native DSD only works with Linux if a driver is written for the specific DAC being used. Thus far, there is no Linux native DSD driver for the TA. But who cares, it makes literally no difference to what data is converted to analogue inside the TA. Chill out!


----------



## AmusedToD

Still running my Utopia's from the 3.5mm unbalanced output. Can't wait for the balanced 4.4mm Axios to arrive.

Is there an uplift in sound quality when using the balanced outputs? Somebody on this thread said he couldn't detect any difference between the two.


----------



## Redcarmoose

AmusedToD said:


> Still running my Utopia's from the 3.5mm unbalanced output. Can't wait for the balanced 4.4mm Axios to arrive.
> 
> Is there an uplift in sound quality when using the balanced outputs? Somebody on this thread said he couldn't detect any difference between the two.



I don’t have your exact headphones but you will most likely notice a significant improvement.


----------



## AmusedToD

Redcarmoose said:


> I don’t have your exact headphones but you will most likely notice a significant improvement.



Certainly hope so! I have a silver cable with a 2.5mm trrs plug, so I ordered a 2.5mm to 4.4mm adapter from Oidio Sound UK to serve me until the Axios arrives. The adapter is rather cheap, but it will do the job hopefully. Probably the worst time of the year for making online orders, but I hope it won't take too long to get to me.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Another review, though not much talk if any talk on sound quality.

https://hometheaterreview.com/sony-ta-zh1es-headphone-amp-reviewed/


----------



## AmusedToD (Dec 30, 2018)

It's remarkable how the TA never sounds bright or harsh, even with low quality files. It provides this phenomenal dark liquidity of sound. It is never dry and never analytical, it presents the music in a liquid and "musical" form, as a whole. It doesn't force you to keep focused on a particular instrument or voice, it always presents the whole piece of music. The details and the soundstage are there, but nothing jumps out to say:"Hey look, I'm here!". It is perhaps a touch slower in terms of PRaT (especially when compared to Questyle's current mode amplification devices like the QP2R). But it's more musical, that's for sure. You can put the cans and enjoy for hours without a hint of fatigue. Really remarkable. These are my initial impressions after two days of listening. Sony do know a thing or two about audio, when they want to do it properly.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Dec 30, 2018)

AmusedToD said:


> It's remarkable how the TA never sounds bright or harsh, even with low quality files. It provides this phenomenal dark liquidity of sound. It is never dry and never analytical, it presents the music in a liquid and "musical" form, as a whole. It doesn't force you to keep focused on a particular instrument or voice, it always presents the whole piece of music. The details and the soundstage are there, but nothing jumps out to say:"Hey look, I'm here!". It is perhaps a touch slower in terms of PRaT (especially when compared to Questyle's current mode amplification devices like the QP2R). But it's more musical, that's for sure. You can put the cans and enjoy for hours without a hint of fatigue. Really remarkable. These are my initial impressions after two days of listening. Sony do know a thing or two about audio, when they want to do it properly.



I feel the best word to describe the sound is natural. 

The fun part for you will be the upgrades. Getting the Kimber cable, getting a Walkman for a source. The TA just keeps going along with the upgrade program, in that refined and slighly out of the way way. Interesting as it can border on too smooth or too almost dark with some IEMs I have. But if I was going to choose a side to be on, I would rather it be on the side the TA is on than the bright and screechy side. 

They smooth out even farther after 100 hours of listening. IMO

You will not believe it when you get the cable and Walkman! I haven’t even heard the Axios or your headphones, but can guess your going to get a nice influx of detail and otherworldly smoothness, like you never heard from headphones.


----------



## AmusedToD

Redcarmoose said:


> I feel the best word to describe the sound is natural.
> 
> The fun part for you will be the upgrades. Getting the Kimber cable, getting a Walkman for a source. The TA just keeps going along with the upgrade program, in that refined and slighly out of the way way. Interesting as it can border on too smooth or too almost dark with some IEMs I have. But if I was going to choose a side to be on, I would rather it be on the side the TA is on than the bright and screechy side.
> 
> ...



Can’t wait for the Walkman and the cradle! My friend is in Barcelona at the moment and he will visit the SuperSonido store on Monday. Hopefully they have it in stock


----------



## Redcarmoose

AmusedToD said:


> Can’t wait for the Walkman and the cradle! My friend is in Barcelona at the moment and he will visit the SuperSonido store on Monday. Hopefully they have it in stock


They only have them in stores in Japan. Picked-up mine in Tokyo. You will need to order it from Amazon or EBay.


----------



## purk

The docking is worth it for sound quality improvements alone if you intend to use Sony Walkmans as a digital transport to amp or DAC.  I have couple of them myself.


----------



## bdjul

Hello, I need help. Bought a ta-zh1es a month ago and was using it with a wm-1a and a doc station while my pc was broken. And few days ago i connect dac to pc on windows without installing any drivers. It works fine with audirvana, but when I try Roon (on trial) I cant turn on asio, it cant see it, only wasapi. I tried installing drivers but it didn’t help. Mb you have some thoughts? Thank you for help. 
P.S I like the sound from the doc more than from pc.


----------



## heysoulman

May I ask the zh1es can use the pre out connect to my newly bought active speaker (adam t5v) ? I have read the manual and guess this should be okay.
Also, the difference between 'fixed' and 'variable' is either the volume control by the TA or the speakers? If I use pre out from TA, this means it only provide DAC function?
Thanks for help and sorry for my bad english


----------



## nc8000

heysoulman said:


> May I ask the zh1es can use the pre out connect to my newly bought active speaker (adam t5v) ? I have read the manual and guess this should be okay.
> Also, the difference between 'fixed' and 'variable' is either the volume control by the TA or the speakers? If I use pre out from TA, this means it only provide DAC function?
> Thanks for help and sorry for my bad english



Yes you can use the pre out to a set of active speakers. If you use fixed you get at standard about 2 volt fixed line signal and control volume on the speakers. If you use variable the TA acts like a pre amp and you can control volume from the TA


----------



## heysoulman

nc8000 said:


> Yes you can use the pre out to a set of active speakers. If you use fixed you get at standard about 2 volt fixed line signal and control volume on the speakers. If you use variable the TA acts like a pre amp and you can control volume from the TA



Thank you for reply first. This means both 'fixed' and ' variable' are ignoring the amp in TA? and for my case, the TA act as DAC only, and the amplifer are using my active speaker inside? In my understanding the DAC cannot control because it only convert the digial source to analog, just like the DAP's line out to a portable amp...

I am new speaker player, and i was afraid the amplifing process twice in TA and Active speaker and cause malfunction..


----------



## Redcarmoose (Dec 31, 2018)

Typically you want to use the line out. You can choose either with the TA. But typically line out in a regular amp bypasses the volume control section and offers a cleaner signal. So different than many DACs there is no digital out. Your choosing line out and using the RCA analog signal. Cheers.

Your not double amping with line out. Only using the TA as a DAC.

Typically if you could use the volume to get stuff louder you know it would be double amping.


----------



## heysoulman

Redcarmoose said:


> Typically you want to use the line out. You can choose either with the TA. But typically line out in a regular amp bypasses the volume control section and offers a cleaner signal. So different than many DACs there is no digital out. Your choosing line out and using the RCA analog signal. Cheers.
> 
> Your not double amping with line out. Only using the TA as a DAC.
> 
> Typically if you could use the volume to get stuff louder you know it would be double amping.



I think I understand what you are talking about...That means the 'variable' and 'fixed' pre out setting in TA are both line out? If I want to have cleaner signal, I should use 'fixed' pre out and control the volume from my active speakers?
Thanks.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Dec 31, 2018)

heysoulman said:


> Thank you for reply first. This means both 'fixed' and ' variable' are ignoring the amp in TA? and for my case, the TA act as DAC only, and the amplifer are using my active speaker inside? In my understanding the DAC cannot control because it only convert the digial source to analog, just like the DAP's line out to a portable amp...
> 
> I am new speaker player, and i was afraid the amplifing process twice in TA and Active speaker and cause malfunction..





heysoulman said:


> I think I understand what you are talking about...That means the 'variable' and 'fixed' pre out setting in TA are both line out? If I want to have cleaner signal, I should use 'fixed' pre out and control the volume from my active speakers?
> Thanks.



There is only one line out setting. You choose line out and the volume knob is non-functional. The other way is preamp out where you can use the remote control or the volume knob to change the volume. You will want to have the line out mode and change the volume on your speakers.

The preamp out would be if you hooked the TA out to a power amp. Power amps are 100% on all the time so the volume would be controlled by the TA in that case. But because your speakers are powered with a separate volume control you choose line out only.


----------



## nc8000

heysoulman said:


> Thank you for reply first. This means both 'fixed' and ' variable' are ignoring the amp in TA? and for my case, the TA act as DAC only, and the amplifer are using my active speaker inside? In my understanding the DAC cannot control because it only convert the digial source to analog, just like the DAP's line out to a portable amp...
> 
> I am new speaker player, and i was afraid the amplifing process twice in TA and Active speaker and cause malfunction..



Yes you are bypassing the amp part of the TA, this part is only used for headphones. Volume control and all other signal processing is done in the digital domain so fixed line out grabs the signal before volume control while variable grabs the signal after volume control


----------



## nc8000

Redcarmoose said:


> There is only one line out setting. You choose line out and the volume knob is non-functional. The other way is preamp out where you can use the remote control or the volume knob to change the volume. You will want to have the line out mode and change the volume on your speakers.
> 
> The preamp out would be if you hooked the TA out to a power amp. Power amps are 100% on all the time so the volume would be controlled by the TA in that case. But because your speakers are powered with a separate volume control you choose line out only.



Either way is equally good as the volume is done digitally, both are line out.  Just a matter of which volume is more convenient to use


----------



## Redcarmoose

nc8000 said:


> Either way is equally good as the volume is done digitally, both are line out.  Just a matter of which volume is more convenient to use


Yes, that’s good to know. I suspected that may be the case. Thank-you.


----------



## heysoulman

nc8000 said:


> Either way is equally good as the volume is done digitally, both are line out.  Just a matter of which volume is more convenient to use



I am completely understand now, for me the variable is more convenientbecause the volume control of my speaker are on the behind. Thanks.


----------



## Redcarmoose

heysoulman said:


> I am completely understand now, for me the variable is more convenientbecause the volume control of my speaker are on the behind. Thanks.



It is good to know, as it’s different than the way we have done it for years and years, before digital volume control.


----------



## gsiu33

Redcarmoose said:


> I feel the best word to describe the sound is natural.
> 
> The fun part for you will be the upgrades. Getting the Kimber cable, getting a Walkman for a source. The TA just keeps going along with the upgrade program, in that refined and slighly out of the way way. Interesting as it can border on too smooth or too almost dark with some IEMs I have. But if I was going to choose a side to be on, I would rather it be on the side the TA is on than the bright and screechy side.
> 
> ...



@Redcarmoose, not sure if you have try to compare, is there any difference in sound quality by connecting 1Z vs 1A to TA with the cradle?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Dec 31, 2018)

gsiu33 said:


> @Redcarmoose, not sure if you have try to compare, is there any difference in sound quality by connecting 1Z vs 1A to TA with the cradle?



There is no difference. How could there be? As audiophiles we can think up stacks of enhancements but if non-scientific, then it’s just speculation.

1Z has a different case 100% copper vs aluminum, a wash.

1Z has different wires in the amp section; a wash.

1Z has different capacitors (I think?) again a wash.

So nothing effecting how a digital transport would perform.

Cheers!


----------



## gsiu33

Redcarmoose said:


> There is no difference. How could there be? As audiophiles we can think up stacks of enhancements but if non-scientific, then it’s just speculation.
> 
> 1Z has a different case 100% copper vs aluminum, a wash.
> 
> ...



This is what I thought.

Thank you and wish you have a happy new year


----------



## Soundizer

Happy New Year all.

Is there a difference in sound quality depending on what input is used on the TA, between:
1. Optical Input. 
2. USB Input. 
3. Sony Walkman Input.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 2, 2019)

Soundizer said:


> Happy New Year all.
> 
> Is there a difference in sound quality depending on what input is used on the TA, between:
> 1. Optical Input.
> ...



Pretty big difference when trying a CD player as transport going SPDIF TOSLINK RCA digital in as in comparison to either regular USB or Walkman input (mini-USB). The CD method results in a sound which is not only lower in volume but seems to offer lower resolution after a volume match?

That difference is a style of sound degradation. That’s using a Rega Planet as a transport. It’s never been explained why there is a major improvement using the DAPs as a source?

So it pretty much means someone needs to rip all their CDs and put them into the Walkman DAPs or a computer. The hierarchy goes:

1) Walkman Cradle then to USB cable TA back
2) Walkman USB adapter to USB cable TA back
3) Walkman included cable to TA side
4) Computer USB to TA back
5) TOSLINK RCA cable TA back CD player as transport

Don’t have a way to listen to CD optical TOSLINK so it’s not on the list. Though take into account others have suggested optical to maybe be a better way. So it’s ironic that people feel the Sony included methodology of mini USB to be the 3rd best way. Sony includes a mini USB cable which has an additional plug which only gets used as physical support running parallel to the plug.

Note:
The dock has the equivalent of a USB filter, so that may explain it’s benefits over the adapter cable with a regular USB? The dock also has PC pass through, though I have never used it that way. The back of the dock has a mini USB input for the computer and a regular USB output for the TA. I assume Sony expects people to run their computers through the dock after switching the rear selection two way switch? If anything I guess the USB filter in the dock would help the computer as a source, though I don’t use it that way.

Remember 1-4 sound fairly close to the same, meaning it could be debatable if there was a difference. IMO Also though at times the computer for what ever reason was noticeable as not as good as the dock. Basically if you have the dock it’s what you use.

Disclaimer:
These are my subjective feelings on sound, but also this is the basic thought here. The DAPs in the cradle offer the best sound.

Also remember this is a fairly difficult thing to test. To figure the TA simply doesn’t have a good methodology for RCA digital off a CD transport would mean testing it against a different DAC/amp or DAC and amplifier. The improvements heard are possibly a result of the TA? I personally only have one other standard DAC (Cambridge Audio DACMagic Plus) and amplifier (Asgard One) to do a direct comparison. But it’s not a fair fight as the Asgard is not balanced. I haven’t gone and tried to compare single ended to single ended. But memeory serves me to realize the difference between the two systems does not warrant a test; as the TA wins.

This is coming from someone who had preferences of using a CD player to a DAC, over a computer to a DAC in the past.


----------



## Soundizer

Redcarmoose said:


> Pretty big difference when trying a CD player as transport going SPDIF TOSLINK RCA digital in as in comparison to either regular USB or Walkman input (mini-USB). The CD method results in a sound which is not only lower in volume but seems to offer lower resolution after a volume match?
> 
> That difference is a style of sound degradation. That’s using a Rega Planet as a transport. It’s never been explained why there is a major improvement using the DAPs as a source?
> 
> ...




Many many thanks for such a detailed and intelligent response. 
Unfortunately I am a little confused.

Can you simplify my options for best audio based on this:
1. I will not be using the Optical connection as it is connected to another device already - my TV.
2. My music is original CD’s which are already RIPPED AS AIFF format on my Apple Computer - iTunes.
3. I don’t think the DOCKING STATION is sold here in the UK.


----------



## Soundizer

I previously connected my iPad to the TA via USB using the Sony USB cable. Played AIFF music on iPad. 
Was very disappointed with this configuration. 

Actually sounds much better when i play music from my TV [YOUTUBE] into the TA - VIA Optical cable.


----------



## AmusedToD

Soundizer said:


> I previously connected my iPad to the TA via USB using the Sony USB cable. Played AIFF music on iPad.
> Was very disappointed with this configuration.
> 
> Actually sounds much better when i play music from my TV [YOUTUBE] into the TA - VIA Optical cable.



Please note that quality od the USB cable plays a major role in my experience.

Regarding different configurations, for example my LG G7 phone via USB to the TA sounds much better than my Roon ROCK server (based on Intel i5 NUC and powered by linear PSU) via USB into the TA. The USB cable is the same, Phasure Lush^2. The battery powered phone sounds noticeably clearer in the midrange, with better defined bass and more extended treble. 

I expect further improvements when both my WM1A and the docking station arrive (not to forget the Kimber Axios balanced cable).

So you should play with different configurations and see which one works best for you.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 3, 2019)

Soundizer said:


> Many many thanks for such a detailed and intelligent response.
> Unfortunately I am a little confused.
> 
> Can you simplify my options for best audio based on this:
> ...




You have to remember that my writing is just my own critical opinion based on experience. If anything we as a group are spending money for audio quality and the quest of.............. otherwise we would be happy with any equipment, and not even look into the TA.

With that said the TA will sound great with your Apple Computer. You may want to try different USB cables, I use the AudioQuest Carbon USB cable. There maybe other software which enables your computer to sound better with the TA? A friend of mine likeshttps://audirvana.com/. They offer a free trial too if your curious!


I probably thought when you listed Walkman input you were thinking of using a Walkman as a source. That is a fairly common question with the use of the TA. Also there is no other way to use the Walkman input unless you somehow find a USB cable with the funny Walkman plug on the other end. They do come around as that’s not a strictly Sony plug. Also I’m pretty sure you could get a USB to Mini usb plug which would fit the side of the TA, your just not getting the side stability plug like the included end Sony includes for the Walkman to TA.

The docking station is a Japan only device, though it can be purchased from Amazon.com or Ebay. Though if you do get interested in getting better sound quality from a computer, a USB filter or the Carbon USB cable may help.

https://www.head-fi.org/members/soundizer.442468/
Note his suggestion.

Now I will point out something that few know about Apple Laptops. The mini analog plug actually has an optical feed. Many have felt this silly $6 cable was miles better than USB. Not sure but simply reposting what others have posted; I don’t use my Apple Laptop for a source. Not sure what the port limits are. Though if your only 16bit/44.1 you should be fine.

https://www.amazon.com/Toslink-Fosmon-Digital-Optical-Chromecast/dp/B01MY2DJUM

Even though your using the optical input, I’m pretty sure there are optical input splitters alowing to use one optical input at a time but not both at once?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XCW78NY/ref=sspa_mw_detail_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Pretty sure this device works in both directions, why would it not?

Note Lawgone is running one in reverse and it works fine and better than a switch because you don’t have to switch it each time, just turn the other device off. https://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/digital-optical-splitter-227763/

Still you will want to do side by side comparisons using the optical splitter to make sure the sound is not altered by the splitter or degraded in any way.



Check your specifications as most Apple laptops do have the optical out; but a few don’t.
——————————————
Only works with the following devices:
-MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013 and later / Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013 and later)
-Mac Pro (Late 2013) / Mini (Late 2014)
-iMac (21.5-inch, Mid 2014)
-Apple Hi-Fi / Airport
————————————


But USB will be fine with a regular USB cable. Though if you get bored try different stuff like the Carbon cable or optical TOSLINK from your laptop audio port. Also I may remember you may have to go into the sound section of your laptop and note what level of sound quality it is at by default? That may only be important to people using their computer for larger bandwidth files like 24/96? I’m also assuming you have an Apple laptop as very few own anything else other than an Apple laptop? Few own full-size Apple computers nowadays. Lol

Cheers!


----------



## Redcarmoose

AmusedToD said:


> Please note that quality od the USB cable plays a major role in my experience.
> 
> Regarding different configurations, for example my LG G7 phone via USB to the TA sounds much better than my Roon ROCK server (based on Intel i5 NUC and powered by linear PSU) via USB into the TA. The USB cable is the same, Phasure Lush^2. The battery powered phone sounds noticeably clearer in the midrange, with better defined bass and more extended treble.
> 
> ...



Cheers, someone else finds the brand of USB cable to make a difference.


----------



## AmusedToD

Redcarmoose said:


> Cheers, someone else finds the brand of USB cable to make a difference.



Absolutely, I have tried many different brands (Audioquest, Wireworld, Chord, etc.) and settled with the Phasure Lush. Another USB cable that is excellent in my opinion is by Transparent Audio.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 3, 2019)

AmusedToD said:


> Absolutely, I have tried many different brands (Audioquest, Wireworld, Chord, etc.) and settled with the Phasure Lush. Another USB cable that is excellent in my opinion is by Transparent Audio.



I have yet to ask my wife to go along and help me do my elaborate blind test with USB cables, but sighted they make a great difference. Maybe it has to do with the level of audio resolution we are now at. Sony would not have added the extra expense of incorporating USB filtering into the dock, if they felt factors could not have a profound impact? They have closed the USB cable discussion thread in SS due to it becoming an emotional and heated topic.

But in the end simply we can do these things due to wild eyed insurance, much as a safety net. Lol

Also it’s interesting to read about people having better luck with TOSLINK optical as a method into the TA. It would not be the first time people reported using optical into the TA as a better choice than RCA TOSLINK digital. It may have to do with how the TA process digital? Though I simply stick with Walkmans and the dock myself.


----------



## Soundizer

Redcarmoose said:


> You have to remember that my writing is just my own critical opinion based on experience. If anything we as a group are spending money for audio quality and the quest of.............. otherwise we would be happy with any equipment, and not even look into the TA.
> 
> With that said the TA will sound great with your Apple Computer. You may want to try different USB cables, I use the AudioQuest Carbon USB cable. There maybe other software which enables your computer to sound better with the TA? A friend of mine likeshttps://audirvana.com/. They offer a free trial too if your curious!
> 
> ...




I am so grateful for your response. Many thanks.

I will not be connecting my iMac Computer to the TA due to location. 
However I could purchase a CD PLAYER or WALKMAN and connect directly to the TA. I can purchase Audioquest USB cable for the SONY WALKMAN if it is be better than the Sony supplied cable. 

All my MUSIC is on CD’s which I can rip again to my iMac Computer and transfer to the WALKMAN or maybe simply copy the AIFF LOSSLESS files directly to it, which are on my Computer.


----------



## Soundizer

AmusedToD said:


> Absolutely, I have tried many different brands (Audioquest, Wireworld, Chord, etc.) and settled with the Phasure Lush. Another USB cable that is excellent in my opinion is by Transparent Audio.



Hello,

Just read your earlier posts about Fical Utopia with TA.

I have the FocalClears and use the 4pin Balanced connection to the TA. It is a great pairing..


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 3, 2019)

Soundizer said:


> Many many thanks for such a detailed and intelligent response.
> Unfortunately I am a little confused.
> 
> Can you simplify my options for best audio based on this:
> ...





Soundizer said:


> I am so grateful for your response. Many thanks.
> 
> I will not be connecting my iMac Computer to the TA due to location.
> However I could purchase a CD PLAYER or WALKMAN and connect directly to the TA. I can purchase Audioquest USB cable for the SONY WALKMAN if it is be better than the Sony supplied cable.
> ...



Well it looked like you wanted to use your computer (note #2)?

Either way getting a Walkman will be an easy way to go, if you feel the Walkman interface is fine? It’s much different than using a computer. Though they also sell a small remote for the Walkmans which is again a Japan import.

But a 1A Walkman and a 400 gigabite card will maybe hold everything. The good thing is the Walkmans play AIFF files. You could get a Walkman and simply hook it to the side of your TA and see if you like the sound quality simply that way. It’s fairly amazing and way better than anything your used to. I would not advise a CD player, though optical could be fine from a CD transport, I have just not tried it? The Walkmans are what has been recommended by others here (especially the 1A/1Z thread) for the best sound.

Remember too the purchase of a $170 USB cable from AudioQuest is really the end-all end-all and not needed unless your looking for insurance that your getting everything possible from the dock and have gone to the last degree of effort.

As you study the build of the AudioQuest Carbon you read that many of the qualities are also redundant to what is being tried to be achieved with the dock electronics. Though both together are a form of insurance.

Edit:
Note too that https://www.head-fi.org/members/amusedtod.466797/ is in the process of getting a dock and 1A so he can help to confirm if us others here are truly on to something or simply delusional and spending cash. Lol.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 3, 2019)

Soundizer said:


> I am so grateful for your response. Many thanks.
> 
> I will not be connecting my iMac Computer to the TA due to location.
> However I could purchase a CD PLAYER or WALKMAN and connect directly to the TA. I can purchase Audioquest USB cable for the SONY WALKMAN if it is be better than the Sony supplied cable.
> ...



Take note, for each of us this journey has been different. It’s not how much you spend but how you like your sound to be. I’m totally a believer in CDs over computer audio, which is one main reason why the 1A DAP as a server source seemed to make more sense than a computer. Though after I started to put my system together and test stuff sighted I seemed to like computer USB over a CD player? So it’s all subjective and can change with each setup. The only thing that remains consistant is the ability of 24/96 files played off the 1A in a dock and Carbon USB to win-out over all other ways.........100% of the time always.

The high resolution files greater than 16/44.1 remained as my test material as they became a baseline to be able in my mind to quantify the sound I was after.


----------



## Soundizer

Redcarmoose said:


> Well it looked like you wanted to use your computer (note #2)?
> 
> Either way getting a Walkman will be an easy way to go, if you feel the Walkman interface is fine? It’s much different than using a computer. Though they also sell a small remote for the Walkmans which is again a Japan import.
> 
> ...




Thank you again and apologies because i was not clear in my previous post..

I plan on buying a Sony Walkman. Do you have a link to the Audioquest Carbon- Sony Walkman Cable?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Soundizer said:


> I previously connected my iPad to the TA via USB using the Sony USB cable. Played AIFF music on iPad.
> Was very disappointed with this configuration.
> 
> Actually sounds much better when i play music from my TV [YOUTUBE] into the TA - VIA Optical cable.



Just noted this post, and have no answers for you other than simply test different configurations. When you reach your goal you will know it. The sound will be the best you have heard and will remain that way day in and day out. I even played my best configurations for non audiophile friends and they could tell, if that means anything?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Soundizer said:


> Thank you again and apologies because i was not clear in my previous post..
> 
> I plan on buying a Sony Walkman. Do you have a link to the Audioquest Carbon- Sony Walkman Cable?



Here is the exact 5 foot Carbon I purchased, though it’s fine and I like the product, they do make a slightly shorter one. Your always supposed to use the shortest one you can make work.
https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Carbon-Cable-Type-1-5m/dp/B0041EDIIW


----------



## Soundizer

Redcarmoose said:


> Just noted this post, and have no answers for you other than simply test different configurations. When you reach your goal you will know it. The sound will be the best you have heard and will remain that way day in and day out. I even played my best configurations for non audiophile friends and they could tell, if that means anything?




Basically I use the TA as a HEADPHONE DAC/AMP from my TV. some thank this is over kill, but I love it. 

So based on my findings and observations here on head fi I will eventually purchase a Sony WALKMAN as a Music transport device.


----------



## Soundizer

Redcarmoose said:


> Here is the exact 5 foot Carbon I purchased, though it’s fine and I like the product, they do make a slightly shorter one. Your always supposed to use the shortest one you can make work.
> https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Carbon-Cable-Type-1-5m/dp/B0041EDIIW




This is why I couldn’t find the cable. I thought you were recommending a Sony Walkman cable by Audioquest.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 3, 2019)

Soundizer said:


> This is why I couldn’t find the cable. I thought you were recommending a Sony Walkman cable by Audioquest.



There are actually people in this thread that only use the TA for home theatre, and say it’s the best application for the amp.

Below is the USB and cradle, though the use of them is redundant as the cradle does for the 1A what the USB adapter does too. It’s just that many think the cradle does it best, maybe because of the USB filter? 

https://www.amazon.com/Walkman-Cradle-BCR-NWH10-NW-ZX2-Japan/dp/B00S94R5RK


https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH...MYSS92E1SM4&psc=1&refRID=ZKY86D8Z6MYSS92E1SM4


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 3, 2019)

Soundizer said:


> This is why I couldn’t find the cable. I thought you were recommending a Sony Walkman cable by Audioquest.



Here is the shorter Carbon USB which is theoretically better to get, though the 5’ works well how I use it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0041EH0WW/ref=psdcmw_464394_t1_B0041EDIIW

The above cable is 2 feet 5.5 inches. Maybe better than 5 feet like what I have theoretically.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Here is the $549 USB cable some use on Head-Fi. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004LR7HP4/ref=sspa_mw_detail_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2XGE4CX5AV74X

Laughably it was too rich for my blood.


----------



## mrtim6

Redcarmoose said:


> Cheers, someone else finds the brand of USB cable to make a difference.




Hi Red these are supposed to be really good

https://curiouscables.com/

Look up John darko he reviewed them.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 5, 2019)

mrtim6 said:


> Hi Red these are supposed to be really good
> 
> https://curiouscables.com/
> 
> Look up John darko he reviewed them.



Thank-you, I'm all set though.

The question is if you personally thought there was a difference between them with use with the Sony TA.

Just noting that AmusedToD thinks he does.


----------



## gsiu33

Redcarmoose said:


> Well it looked like you wanted to use your computer (note #2)?
> 
> Either way getting a Walkman will be an easy way to go, if you feel the Walkman interface is fine? It’s much different than using a computer. Though they also sell a small remote for the Walkmans which is again a Japan import.
> 
> ...


I connected my Wadia 861 to TA via AudioQuest Carbon Optical and the sound is pretty good.


----------



## mrtim6

Has anyone here compared the DSD re-mastering Engine that resamples compressed music files to DSD —  in the TA-z1ES to the hap z1es?

I wondering if they are the same?


----------



## AmusedToD

In anticipation of the Kimber Axios Cu 4.4mm cable, last night was the first time for me to try the 4.4mm balanced output on the TA. I used a cheap 2.5mm to 4.4mm adapter as I already have a pure silver cable terminated with a beautiful Furutech 2.5mm plug. Before that I was exclusively using an unbalanced copper cable with the Utopia, terminated with a 3.5mm plug (as I didn't have any other cable compatible with the TA"s selection of outputs).

To cut the long story short, the sound that came out of the balanced 4.4mm output quite literally blew my mind within the first seconds! As if I changed either the entire amp or the headphones. I couldn't believe the beautiful sonic coherence, the massive sounstage, the clarity and the extension both ways (some of it goes to the cable too). And the PRaT! One of my remarks when I first heard the TA  unbalanced was the lack of PRaT (it was rhythmically rather slow, with no foot tapping sensation, especially compared to Questyle's offerings). But it grew on me to the point I was happy with the unbalanced output before, but now... There is PRaT in spades, my feet started to hurt last night due to tapping  

Balanced is the one and only way to listen to the TA! What can I say, this is such a marvelous piece of audio engineering. 

I don't see myself wanting to upgrade to anything else in the foreseeable future!


----------



## nc8000

AmusedToD said:


> In anticipation of the Kimber Axios Cu 4.4mm cable, last night was the first time for me to try the 4.4mm balanced output on the TA. I used a cheap 2.5mm to 4.4mm adapter as I already have a pure silver cable terminated with a beautiful Furutech 2.5mm plug. Before that I was exclusively using an unbalanced copper cable with the Utopia, terminated with a 3.5mm plug (as I didn't have any other cable compatible with the TA"s selection of outputs).
> 
> To cut the long story short, the sound that came out of the balanced 4.4mm output quite literally blew my mind within the first seconds! As if I changed either the entire amp or the headphones. I couldn't believe the beautiful sonic coherence, the massive sounstage, the clarity and the extension both ways (some of it goes to the cable too). And the PRaT! One of my remarks when I first heard the TA  unbalanced was the lack of PRaT (it was rhythmically rather slow, with no foot tapping sensation, especially compared to Questyle's offerings). But it grew on me to the point I was happy with the unbalanced output before, but now... There is PRaT in spades, my feet started to hurt last night due to tapping
> 
> ...



Totally agree. I’ve been using the TA with Z1R and balanced Axios CU for close to 2 years now and have felt absolutely no desire to change or audition anything else


----------



## Rob49

I just don't use unbalanced connection, once you've gone balanced, it's the only way to go !


----------



## AmusedToD

nc8000 said:


> Totally agree. I’ve been using the TA with Z1R and balanced Axios CU for close to 2 years now and have felt absolutely no desire to change or audition anything else



I understand completely now. I will be getting the Sony WM1A DAP today, I just need the Sony cradle to complete the ecosystem and find myself in sonic bliss


----------



## nc8000

AmusedToD said:


> I understand completely now. I will be getting the Sony WM1A DAP today, I just need the Sony cradle to complete the ecosystem and find myself in sonic bliss



I’m using the Auralic Aries Mini streamer with a build in 2GB ssd as my source for the TA


----------



## Rob49

My sources are a Sony HAP-S1 & Sony Walkman's - ZX2, ZX300. TA doesn't get enough praise for pre-out / speaker listening. It's the best i've heard.


----------



## sne4me

I just watched Interstellar Bluray -> PowerDVD -> ASIO USB -> TAZH1ES -> MDR-Z1R and it was awesome.


----------



## Lucky87 (Jan 10, 2019)

sne4me said:


> I just watched Interstellar Bluray -> PowerDVD -> ASIO USB -> TAZH1ES -> MDR-Z1R and it was awesome.




Yeah I did not to long ago but in UHD 4K > Oppo UDP-205 (DUAL ES9038PRO SABRE DAC  >  Sony XBR-65A8F OLED   >  Audio gd Master 9 > Sony MDR Z1R  =


----------



## AmusedToD

Any chance for the TA to get MQA decoding ability through a firmware update (as have the WM1Z and WM1A)? @*TSAVJason*, any news on your side?


----------



## TSAVJason

AmusedToD said:


> Any chance for the TA to get MQA decoding ability through a firmware update (as have the WM1Z and WM1A)? @*TSAVJason*, any news on your side?



I haven’t heard anything directly as of yet but I know it’s been discussed. It would make sense since they are discussing it with regard to the 1A & 1Z


----------



## Fsilva

Just received my TA-ZH1ES today and would like to know what cables should i get to connect the TA-ZH1ES to my Yamaha Hs7 monitors, XLR > RCA or 6.3mm Jack > Rca?

Also what cables do you guy´s suggest? 
I´m in Europe and would like to spend no more than 100€ on a pair of cables


----------



## nc8000

Fsilva said:


> Just received my TA-ZH1ES today and would like to know what cables should i get to connect the TA-ZH1ES to my Yamaha Hs7 monitors, XLR > RCA or 6.3mm Jack > Rca?
> 
> Also what cables do you guy´s suggest?
> I´m in Europe and would like to spend no more than 100€ on a pair of cables



As the pre out from the TA is single ended RCA you will need 2 wires, each with an RCA plug one end and a 6,3 mm mono plug the other end. I have no idea if such cables can be bought standard or have to be custom made, I've never seen such a cable.


----------



## Fsilva

nc8000 said:


> As the pre out from the TA is single ended RCA you will need 2 wires, each with an RCA plug one end and a 6,3 mm mono plug the other end. I have no idea if such cables can be bought standard or have to be custom made, I've never seen such a cable.


Thanks for the reply, i´m aware that i would need 2 cables, one for each monitor. So i´m assuming that this would do the work, am I correct? 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mogami-2534-Pair-Cable-Neutrik/dp/B07BLL8WJF?th=1

Still waiting for your T.A to be delivered, will let you know once it gets here!


----------



## nc8000

Fsilva said:


> Thanks for the reply, i´m aware that i would need 2 cables, one for each monitor. So i´m assuming that this would do the work, am I correct?
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mogami-2534-Pair-Cable-Neutrik/dp/B07BLL8WJF?th=1
> 
> Still waiting for your T.A to be delivered, will let you know once it gets here!



Yes that seems to be correct. It's been 10 days since the dock was sent so it ought to arrive first half of next week but I must admit it is the first time I've used that shipper outside of Denmark (have used them many times within Denmark)


----------



## Fsilva

nc8000 said:


> Yes that seems to be correct. It's been 10 days since the dock was sent so it ought to arrive first half of next week but I must admit it is the first time I've used that shipper outside of Denmark (have used them many times within Denmark)


Thanks, think i´m gonna order a pair of those Mogami cables then, i know they are good cables for the price paid, since all my guitar cables are Mogami also.
Was not expecting to take so much time yo receive the TA tough.


----------



## Fsilva

Just noticed that they also have XLR to RCA, wouldn´t that be better soundwise? 

https://enoaudio.de/en/product/m2534bk-2rm3xm/


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## nc8000

Fsilva said:


> Just noticed that they also have XLR to RCA, wouldn´t that be better soundwise?
> 
> https://enoaudio.de/en/product/m2534bk-2rm3xm/



According to the Yamaha manual the xlr ports expect to receive a balanced signal and the TA only sends a single ended signal so I don’t think it will work but I really don’t know


----------



## Fsilva

nc8000 said:


> According to the Yamaha manual the xlr ports expect to receive a balanced signal and the TA only sends a single ended signal so I don’t think it will work but I really don’t know


Thanks again for the prompt reply, better safe than sorry, so i´m not gonna take any risks and will order the neutriks to rca!


----------



## AmusedToD

Anyone using a power conditioner with the TA? If yes, does it make sense to invest in such a product?


----------



## Halimj7

Bismillah 

Anyone know how this compares to the Sony HAP-S1? Thanks


----------



## nc8000

Halimj7 said:


> Bismillah
> 
> Anyone know how this compares to the Sony HAP-S1? Thanks



2 entirely different products so I don’t really see how one could compare then


----------



## Halimj7

nc8000 said:


> 2 entirely different products so I don’t really see how one could compare then


Bismillah 

They are both headphone amps and DACS....why can’t they be compared?


----------



## nc8000

Halimj7 said:


> Bismillah
> 
> They are both headphone amps and DACS....why can’t they be compared?



The S1 is a speaker amp that happens to also have a headphone out. It primarily plays music stored on the unit but as an afterthought does have optical and coax in but no usb. 

The TA is a dedicated dac and headphone amp.


----------



## Rob49

Halimj7 said:


> Bismillah
> 
> Anyone know how this compares to the Sony HAP-S1? Thanks



I own both. As said, two different products. My HAP-S1 is connected to the TA & i'd say it's on another level now. Anyone considering buying the TA, i would say don't hesitate. It's so versatile.


----------



## Lemieux66 (Feb 22, 2019)

Guys, my TA is up for sale in the Classifieds now, along with my Z1R. Selling as I need funds for my Garrard 301 project.


----------



## formyears

ifound new use for my ta. its atop the stax srm t8000 powering my stax 009s using the sony walkman’s hires files.  sony in black, stax silver.  you can see the tubes ouline in the saturated pix


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## Fsilva

I´m selling my Sony BCR-NWH10 WM port cradle, if anyones interested just drop me a message.


----------



## Viper Necklampy

Hi, does anyone tried TA-ZH1ES and Pha-3 too? Could someone tell me if treble is at least as good as PHA-3? THX


----------



## tradyblix

Viper Necklampy said:


> Hi, does anyone tried TA-ZH1ES and Pha-3 too? Could someone tell me if treble is at least as good as PHA-3? THX



Yea, I have both. The TA-ZH1ES is a higher quality sound. It is more sophisticated. You’ll be able to tell the difference between the two. It also converts to DSD on the fly which is quite cool, and can mimic an analog amp’s sound, 2 things the PHA-3 cant do. Also it can do a better job driving headphones, which makes some headphones better, the LCD-2 comes to mind. I still enjoy the PHA-3 tho and use it when I listen in bed.


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## Viper Necklampy (Mar 1, 2019)

tradyblix said:


> Yea, I have both. The TA-ZH1ES is a higher quality sound. It is more sophisticated. You’ll be able to tell the difference between the two. It also converts to DSD on the fly which is quite cool, and can mimic an analog amp’s sound, 2 things the PHA-3 cant do. Also it can do a better job driving headphones, which makes some headphones better, the LCD-2 comes to mind. I still enjoy the PHA-3 tho and use it when I listen in bed.


Thanks, interesting.. So, can you confirm to me that the sparkling in the highs is pronunced more or less like the Pha-3 (I think it is's pronunced, at least way more than my desktop setup) .. I heard it have a dark sound signature the TA-ZH1ES.
With the TA-ZH1ES i will have the Advance to ''trasform'' PCM to DSD with optical toslink? (With Playstation 4 for example) and that 'analog sound' ? I have an Audeze EL8 Closed which is an brilliant sounding sound signature HP and i like that sparkly signature that brings the Pha-3


----------



## tradyblix (Mar 1, 2019)

My advice to you is to audition the device at an audio store. Nobody on the internet is going to be able to do what you’re asking as the variables of headphones, hearing and subjective experience are too great. It sounds alot better to me than the PHA-3. The PHA-3 is actually mind of sharp and edgy at times with the high... you’re asking the impossible for strangers to confm your own listening biases and preferences.

Dont own your headphones nor do I use this device with a game console so cannot comment on that, but
 it can upscale all its source input to DSD that is the main feature of the device. Whether that appeals to you or not only you can decide. It has a D and and a circuit, this is called s master and is the analog sound I speak of, also on or off for any source. Also it has DSSE with 3 more settings than PHA-3 and works on hi rea stuff too. 

I use USB tho as optical is an outdated tech limited to 24/96 and I dont find it suitable for my hi res preferences.


----------



## Branduardi

Hello. I just got intersted in this device. It happens I just got a NW-A50 dap, and I've been left impressed with its sound quality and personalization of sound experience, especially in regard to its price (200$ more or less).

If my thoughts are right, the TA should be no less than mind-blowing 

I would use the TA mainly as a DAC for my speaker system for playing liquid music and for when I feel I want to play around with settings and to try hardware-based dsd conversion (computer players are not my thing, plus I found usb output from pc always noisy). It would live alongside my Marantz Hd-dac1 which still I love for its warm analog feeling sound and its dynamic espression.

Just a couple of things aren't clear to me.

1) Can I just use my NW-A50 as source for my music files coupled with Sony docking station and a good usb cable? Will sound quality be exactly the same as using a higher end walkman or will I get better sound by using e.g. WM1A as a transport?

2) Will equalizer and sound effects still available on the player or even better are they directly embedded in the TA?

3) My NW -A50 appears to be compatible with .mqa files, how does the TA manages those? Will get the unfolded files and play them in 24/96 without final rendering or will it reject them tout court?

Thank you very much, I hope you can clear a bit my mind about this amazing piece of kit so that I can buy with some confidence 

PS: While we're at it, anyone compared TA with Hd-Dac1 as a fixed line dac to amplifier?


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## tradyblix (Mar 1, 2019)

TA Doesnt support MQA atm. I use a software solution to unfold those files first - Audirvana. They come in at a high res bitrate and sampl freq and then I upsample those to DSD.

TA has dedicated special input on side for walkmans. I dont use a DAP or walkman as I use it directly from Mac/PC. Typically when using DACs this way you use line out and the TA amplifies this signal, you get the TA sound. 

The TA has no equalizer or settings other than the DSEE presets, DSD upsampling and the DA S Master feature  ( DC Phase Lineraizer) for analog like amp sound. You csn manage Lr balance that is all, and gain.  Your settings pass thru depend on whether your device can apply those in its line out mode or not. They wont be managable from the TA somehow.


----------



## Branduardi

Thank you very much. This is already very useful info. Do you think TA is good value for money and DSD umpsampling has good effect? I've experienced Dsd with SACDs and find it beautiful but unfortunately I don't own many SACDs and my SACD player is obsolete.


----------



## tradyblix

I do, I think it is a fantastic device that is well engineered and built like a tank. But its my main dac/amp so I am biased. You do have alot of choices at that price range, there are alot of quality dacs available that are all good, which is why I recommend auditioning them first.

I hope they add MQA support becuase I use Tidal and it would be cool, but its not a dealbreaker if a device or PC does at least unfolding 1, which to me provides a benefit. Not all music I have is in MQA anyway, its far from ubiquitous. And yes, I leave DSD resampling on. Its hard to tell the difference honestly betweeen DSD and other hi res PCM sources, but I feel its better on DSD. Native DSD is amazing, but its mostly classical music in that format and the file sizes are too large. Its just nice to have the capability. They all sound really good and honestly I feel  headphones are the limiting factor atm anyway, as they make a large difference in the sound reproduction. 

I do feel like small differences, like MQA giving me a 24/88 signal out of a streaming service, and then converting that to DSD... I feel like small differences all add up. Also its just part of our hobby, extracting every last bit of quality possible. 

I mainly got this device because I was impressed with the PHA-3 and Z7, Always liked Sony, Loved all the output support for different jacks meaning I dont need adapters or switch old cables, and was interested in the features which are not common. I also felt like it had a better build quality than boutique devices at this price. It also supported balanced out which I wanted. 

I’ve been happy with it since and hope to get many more years out of it.


----------



## Ricky64

I've just had an interesting experience with the TA Z1. I have the Final D8000 headphone, and I am pleased with it. When running it out of the TA, however, I was very disappointed. It was as if a rounded signature of the HD8000 was superimposed on a round amp signature.
The result was poor imaging and soundstage. 
I run Roon through a PC, and into the TA via USB. I had not adjusted this before, but I switched Roon's DSP to a high sampling DSD output, and adjusted the TA accordingly. The results are remarkable. It turns out that neither headphone or amp has a strictly rounded signature.

I had been looking at upgrading to much more expensive components. Turns out, there are quite a few variables involved, and both my headphones and TA can scale to various adjustments with stunning results.
I'll be hanging onto the TA.


----------



## Branduardi

So, is it true that Ta-ZH1ES doesn't sound as good when fed optical/coaxial compared to usb? I would use it with walkman for Hires audio, but main use would still be as converter for my cd player. I want to enjoy dsd conversion hardware over my cd library and I haven't time nor will to rip them all in the walkman.


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## tradyblix (Mar 2, 2019)

Branduardi said:


> So, is it true that Ta-ZH1ES doesn't sound as good when fed optical/coaxial compared to usb? I would use it with walkman for Hires audio, but main use would still be as converter for my cd player. I want to enjoy dsd conversion hardware over my cd library and I haven't time nor will to rip them all in the walkman.



I don't know if I would say that it doesn't sound good, because I'm sure if you use that you can get great sound from it, but it is not a modern standard, we had it back in the 90s which is coming up on thirty years ago now and it won't support 24/192 or 32/384 sampling rates like USB does.

For example, if I wanted to get a 32/384 software oversampled signal from my Mac, I can with USB, but not with optical. I choose in my case to let the TA do the oversampling (it's doing a form of it by DSD conversation anyway, and I chose to have less software stuff involved by not oversampling in PCM from standard output on the file to 32/384 and then DSD conversion. I felt it was better to have less software sample rate conversions going on... but you must use your ears when it comes to this, what sounds better to you). The TA has a nice monitor on the top that lets you know what form the signal is coming in and what form it comes out, and I like having that displayed all the time so I know what I'm doing. This also helps to determine if MQA unfolding is taking place or not.

Not everyone might want to do that, especially if they paid for an expensive custom software oversampler like Audirvana has, they might prefer using SoX to oversample the frequencies in sofware first and then have the TA do it's thing, or they might not have DSD turned on and want pure software 32/384 PCM (or any other rate they feel is best) and just have the TA amp this out. Which you can do with it.

So for that reason, you would be using USB, not optical. As for optical, Even in home audio it doesn't carry more than 2 PCM channels, or lossless surround signals, so it's application there is being replaced by HDMI. Lastly, as a cable it is kind of fragile and stiff. I still use it there because it's simple out from the TV and I'm a simple man, don't have a state of the art home theatre system. I just have a passion for high resolution audio equipment.

There are also hardware cable upgrades for USB involving exotic solutions and metals whereas fiber is harder to buy premium versions of.... Not wanting to start a Woo war here over any of this info, you know how it is in high end Audio, but this is my take. People like upgrading cables 

Some may need or choose to use it depending on their equipment I guess, or if > 24/96 is not a problem, or if none of this applies to them or they don't care or believe you should do any of this. So if you want to still use it, by all means. It does also have a Coax digital in if you prefer not to use optical cables but don't want to use USB. Everyone can be happy !


----------



## asquare3376

Branduardi said:


> So, is it true that Ta-ZH1ES doesn't sound as good when fed optical/coaxial compared to usb? I would use it with walkman for Hires audio, but main use would still be as converter for my cd player. I want to enjoy dsd conversion hardware over my cd library and I haven't time nor will to rip them all in the walkman.


I am sure you know this already that optical and coax technologies are limited to 24/192 whereas USB can go way beyond that.


----------



## Viper Necklampy

But does it is possible with optical toslink to convert PCM to DSD? Me for example i play mostly on Playstation 2,3 and 4 with 16bit/48khz and 24bit/96 or 176khz, it can be upconverted to DSD?


----------



## asquare3376

Viper Necklampy said:


> But does it is possible with optical toslink to convert PCM to DSD? Me for example i play mostly on Playstation 2,3 and 4 with 16bit/48khz and 24bit/96 or 176khz, it can be upconverted to DSD?


Yes, it does convert all sources to DSD


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## Viper Necklampy (Mar 5, 2019)

asquare3376 said:


> Yes, it does convert all sources to DSD


With that, if i'm playing like 96khz on Playstation 4 for example, that have paying frequencies of about 40khz, could i upsample to max dsd then? Even if i play 16bit/48khz on optical i can to max it to hi-res DSD 22,4 Mhz? So with even 100-200khz playing frequencies instead of 20? Sorry but i don't understand pretty well the upscaling method, i hope it's MAGIC!!


----------



## Branduardi

Viper Necklampy said:


> With that, if i'm playing like 96khz on Playstation 4 for example, that have paying frequencies of about 40khz, could i upsample to max dsd then? Even if i play 16bit/48khz on optical i can to max it to hi-res DSD 22,4 Mhz? So with even 100-200khz playing frequencies instead of 20? Sorry but i don't understand pretty well the upscaling method, i hope it's MAGIC!!



Pay only attention that adding effects like dsd remaster or dsee could add latency and so be unsuitable for gaming. Only just an hyposthesis as I still haven't the TA myself, but I'm getting one in the next few days so I'll let you know if you want. I hope it doesn't any lag as I'm a gamer too, I will be doing tests in this regard. Anyway, even with effects off should sound amazing for games!! I hope as well it is MAGIC!!!!


----------



## Viper Necklampy

Branduardi said:


> Pay only attention that adding effects like dsd remaster or dsee could add latency and so be unsuitable for gaming. Only just an hyposthesis as I still haven't the TA myself, but I'm getting one in the next few days so I'll let you know if you want. I hope it doesn't any lag as I'm a gamer too, I will be doing tests in this regard. Anyway, even with effects off should sound amazing for games!! I hope as well it is MAGIC!!!!


Nice!! Interesting, Let me know! I hope it will not lag, i have a 25ms tv on game mode, that is not very low so, i hope DSD Remastering don't add any lag. You play on Ps4? If that's so you can play only on Toslink optical, tell me if all the TA-ZH1ES have all the options unlocked with game console  And how it sounds of course, and tell me which are your headphones


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## Branduardi (Mar 5, 2019)

Viper Necklampy said:


> Nice!! Interesting, Let me know! I hope it will not lag, i have a 25ms tv on game mode, that is not very low so, i hope DSD Remastering don't add any lag. You play on Ps4? If that's so you can play only on Toslink optical, tell me if all the TA-ZH1ES have all the options unlocked with game console  And how it sounds of course, and tell me which are your headphones



I play on PS4 but I don't connect it directly to the dac, because I have various consoles and I should swap the optical cable every time.

Instead I have the tv optical out connected to the dac, so every source is directly routed there. Furthermore you have the benefit to have the sound automatically perfectly synched with picture, where as you could have the picture lagging behind sound if you separate them because of tv picture processing.

You don't lose anything in sound quality because games afaik don't go over 16bit/48kHz.

Important thing is to have good cables, I have Audioquest Carbon both hdmi and optical they make a world of difference, sound simply come out of the tv screen it's amazing, and hdmi also makes a world of difference in picture quality on my Oled tv. 

My headphones are K712, K550 and various clasic studio Akg models but I also ordered HD660S along the ZH1ES to try out balanced connection. I went a bit crazy with shopping!! Hope I will be wowed!


----------



## Viper Necklampy

Branduardi said:


> I play on PS4 but I don't connect it directly to the dac, because I have various consoles and I should swap the optical cable every time.
> 
> Instead I have the tv optical out connected to the dac, so every source is directly routed there. Furthermore you have the benefit to have the sound automatically perfectly synched with picture, where as you could have the picture lagging behind sound if you separate them because of tv picture processing.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah i have A belkin 2.1 hdmi payed 35€, it made my picture quality a little bit better, and when i had Sony MDR-HW700DS i heard that the sound was more refined, i had 2 of those cables for that.. But, i don't trust to Plug the DAC to tv, and hdmi trough the console, when i had Pha-3 connected to tv and MDR-Z7 the sound was so shouty at average volume that was hurting my ears, strange, don't know why, i have Sony XF90 tv, now i Switch optical cable at Ps2/ps3/ps4 when i wanna change them.. Anyway, if you choose hdmi connection in Ps4 settings, in DAC show 24bit/48khz but it's probably 96khz thanks to Ps4's DSEE HX..


----------



## Branduardi

I don't know. Maybe check your tv if it has a setting about optical output, it must be PCM and 0dB, maybe it was too high level and your amplifier saturated giving you shouty sound (this is typical when you feed a signal too high but this is in analog world, don't know if this also apply to a digital connection).

I have no problem with my tv doing passthrough. I prefer the unadulterated signal to go to the dac without previous treatment and then eventually have it to do his thing... Doesn't sound a good idea to me to process sound twice, inside Ps4 and then in zh1es again. And most important, I wouldn't put that much mechanical stress on my precious dac connector by continuous un-plugging, connection must be ultra steady in optical toslink to assure best transmission, last thing you want is it to become loose. So I connect once and that's all 

Finally, belkin cables could be good as far as construction but they simply don't play in the same league of audiophile cables. If you want to squeeze the last bit of sound quality from your source you have to have a better cable. Source is everything, you can have the best dac and amplifier in this world but if it receives a degraded signal it can't restore it that much. In the grand scheme of things, I think 100€/$ for a good cable is a given, considered how much we spend in equipment. You can not believe me, but I assure you, night and day difference.


----------



## bdjul

I’m using tazh1es basically as my computer soundcard. I don’t notice lag on low gain, you can play FPS games without any problem.


----------



## Branduardi

bdjul said:


> I’m using tazh1es basically as my computer soundcard. I don’t notice lag on low gain, you can play FPS games without any problem.



This is fantastic news!! Do you notice better sound quality with dsd remaster/dsee also in games?


----------



## bdjul (Mar 10, 2019)

My experience is that on high gain I have a little delay in sound and it is annoying, but when I switch on low gain everything is fine. I have dsd remaster and dsee always on but frankly speaking I don’t find any difference in games.

Update: somehow the issue with latency on high gain disappeared. Everything is fine now.


----------



## nc8000

Got a new usb cable a friend of mine has made for me.


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## Branduardi

So I'm listening to my new ZH1ES for a few days, and saying I'm delighted it's an understatement. Truly a masterpiece in my opinion, both when used as a dac with fixed rca output and as a headphone amplifier. Its sound is... a drug.

Dsd remaster function is phenomenal ad Dsee hx is no lesser, I don't know how Dsee works exactly but it appears to me it can somehow restore dynamics in dynamically compressed music... many cds I own become listenable now!

I still have to experiment with the different Dsee options but I'm more than happy with the standard mode.


----------



## Rob49

Branduardi said:


> So I'm listening to my new ZH1ES for a few days, and saying I'm delighted it's an understatement. Truly a masterpiece in my opinion, both when used as a dac with fixed rca output and as a headphone amplifier. Its sound is... a drug.
> 
> Dsd remaster function is phenomenal ad Dsee hx is no lesser, I don't know how Dsee works exactly but it appears to me it can somehow restore dynamics in dynamically compressed music... many cds I own become listenable now!
> 
> I still have to experiment with the different Dsee options but I'm more than happy with the standard mode.



I've had mine since last July & am amazed by it, everytime i listen. So agree with you. It's the best audio product i've ever owned / listened to.


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Mar 15, 2019)

Rob49 said:


> I've had mine since last July & am amazed by it, everytime i listen. So agree with you. It's the best audio product i've ever owned / listened to.


Oh god... Every single one person i read, is astoneshed by it... Every one. I was looking to THX AAA 789 + SMSL D1, but, maybe Sony product are more durable right? I heard that Old Sony product lasted more than 25 years, maybe this TA-ZH1ES could be an endgame that can last 10+ years with any break up? I hope..
I must try it, i will buy it on amazon and if i don't like refund  When i have the Money i'll try, tons of money but very curious about it, hope it pair well with EL8 Titanium! Waiting for Z Review 'review'


----------



## Redcarmoose

Viper Necklampy said:


> Oh god... Every single one i read, i astoneshed by it... Every one.. I was looking to THX AAA 789 + SMSL D1, but, maybe Sony product are more durable right? I heard that Old Sony product lasted more than 25 years, maybe this TA-ZH1ES could be an endgame that can last 10+ years with any break up? I hope..
> I must try it, i will buy it on amazon and if i don't like refund  When i have the Money i'll try, tons of money but very curious about it, hope it pair well with EL8 Titanium! Waiting for Z Review 'review'



It’s hard in a way to find decent TA reviews, as someone really needs to be matching up the DAPs as a source to get the full TA effect in my humble opinion. So a reviewer has to actually have a couple pieces of gear, as the system is designed to work as a group. IMO


----------



## Soundizer

Is it possible to connect some good Sony Speakers to my TA-Z1HES? As it is connected to my TV via Optical I might sell my soundbar and just plug speakers into the TA.


----------



## nc8000

Soundizer said:


> Is it possible to connect some good Sony Speakers to my TA-Z1HES? As it is connected to my TV via Optical I might sell my soundbar and just plug speakers into the TA.



You can connect active/powered speakers via the line out


----------



## Soundizer

nc8000 said:


> You can connect active/powered speakers via the line out



Thank you. Does it mean the TA will still do the DAC Processing work as I like the sound signature?


----------



## nc8000

Soundizer said:


> Thank you. Does it mean the TA will still do the DAC Processing work as I like the sound signature?



Yes


----------



## nc8000

Just got a long optical cable to connect my tv to the TA, excelent job for movie watching


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Mar 18, 2019)

Does anyone tried it with LCD2Classic? 
The TA-ZH1ES pair well with planar headphones?


----------



## Soundizer

nc8000 said:


> Just got a long optical cable to connect my tv to the TA, excelent job for movie watching



That is the only connection I have as use it for TV listening. I don’t connect it to any other device. All my Music is on TV Apps aswell which have video = Tidal and Apple Music on Apple TV.


----------



## Soundizer

Some people have said my £1,500 Sony TA-Z1HES is overkill for a TV headphone dac/amp, but to me it sounds better than many £10,000 plus AV Systems I have listened to and much/much more resolving. I use Focl Clear headphones and Audioquest Cinam Optical cable £79.


----------



## musicday

Anyone can compare this to Nuprime DAC 10 H, Hugo 2, TT2 will be much appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## Viper Necklampy

Oh god i see that DSEE HX on TA-ZH1ES is not 24bit/192k upscaling, but instead is 32bit/384khz!! My question is: Does DSEE HX and DSD Remastering  11,2Mhz works on Optical Toslink? Someone who tried it please


----------



## trappedintime

What’s the best aftermarket 2 hole cable to grab for this? Thinking about picking up a TA soon


----------



## heysoulman

Does anyone connect the TA with the ps4 via opt?
When the game is loading, the 'click' sound occur around 3-5 times. Is that normal?


----------



## audionewbi

I've recently gotten into 32/768 upsampling. I've had much success with Chord Mojo and as a result looking into 1ES, which is about the only DAC/amp I know offers such bitrates and don't cost an arm and a leg. Has any members tried such upsampling?


----------



## Mund1

Thinking about adding the TA-ZH1ES for it's versatility and as told, I can use it as a phone amp as well.  Is this correct?

The other question I had.  I have a Pioneer XDP-30R DAP that I would like to plug into the TA-ZH1ES.  Any advice on effectively doing so?              
(on the Pioneer XDP-30R there is a micro USB port at bottom, a 3.5mm port (unbalanced) and a 2.5mm port (balanced) both at the top)


----------



## Lookout57

You can connect the Pioneer to the TA-ZH1ES via USB and take advantage of it's DAC capabilities which will be much better than the Pioneer's.


----------



## Viper Necklampy

So, still anybody can't answer if TA-ZH1ES works with Dsee hx and DSDre on optical? And if i can ask, it sound good with optical toslink? Even Sony didn't answered me :O


----------



## Viper Necklampy

Do you guys use a power conditioner for TA-ZH1ES? Which, cheap one or expensive one? Do you think can improve to clean the TA-ZH1ES, and preventing damaging for thunders or anyway some sovrattensions? Do you think in 150-500 price range i could improve sound and/or prevent damage for sovrattension? Thanks


----------



## diadack (Apr 10, 2019)

does anybody know how this compares to the Hugo 2? I'm thinking about selling my Hugo 2 and going for a balanced desktop set up.


----------



## tradyblix

Viper Necklampy said:


> So, still anybody can't answer if TA-ZH1ES works with Dsee hx and DSDre on optical? And if i can ask, it sound good with optical toslink? Even Sony didn't answered me :O



I am pretty sure that those features are available on all inputs as long as the source is PCM. If the source is DSD, then neither of these are active. I dont know if DSD can go over toslink tho. I use USB. I have an optical cable and I think my old macbook as optical out so I’ll try when I get home for you if I can find the cable. Again, for most purposes tho, I feel that USB is the most sensible option.


----------



## tradyblix

Viper Necklampy said:


> Do you guys use a power conditioner for TA-ZH1ES? Which, cheap one or expensive one? Do you think can improve to clean the TA-ZH1ES, and preventing damaging for thunders or anyway some sovrattensions? Do you think in 150-500 price range i could improve sound and/or prevent damage for sovrattension? Thanks



I imagine it might have benefits. It would be the last thing I upgraded in any system. Headphones first, then cables and filters, then power after the amp.


----------



## tradyblix

diadack said:


> does anybody know how this compares to the Hugo 2? I'm thinking about selling my Hugo 2 and going for a balanced desktop set up.


 Never heard the Hugo 2 but something i’ve always wondered. I’ve heard it described as more analytical, like a laser on the sound, whereas to my ears the ZH1 is laid back and somewhat warm sounding as dacs go. Definately not sharp like Sabres are.


----------



## diadack

tradyblix said:


> Never heard the Hugo 2 but something i’ve always wondered. I’ve heard it described as more analytical, like a laser on the sound, whereas to my ears the ZH1 is laid back and somewhat warm sounding as dacs go. Definately not sharp like Sabres are.


Yes its very analytical and has exquisite detail, its also not warm at all. The filters however don't really do much besides X PHD which adds some space and soundstage but I don't think it does it very well, at least with my LCD 4zs and focal Utopias I've used on this amp


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Apr 10, 2019)

tradyblix said:


> I am pretty sure that those features are available on all inputs as long as the source is PCM. If the source is DSD, then neither of these are active. I dont know if DSD can go over toslink tho. I use USB. I have an optical cable and I think my old macbook as optical out so I’ll try when I get home for you if I can find the cable. Again, for most purposes tho, I feel that USB is the most sensible option.


I'll be really grateful if you'll try with optical, on game console if you have and can, with Dsee hx and DSDremastering, to see if those amazings functions work even on Optical toslink
I had to ask Sony two times, first, they miscomprended my question, telling me it works in optical. I did know that, it have an optical input! And second, they tell it works with Dsee hx and DSDremastered, wow, what a news. But they didn't tell me if Dsee hx and DSDremastering works with optical, so i asked again.



They responded me - With reference to your communication we cannot guarantee or guarantee functionality on models not yet released.

However we can forward your observation to improve the quality of our products.
(In Italian..) LOL What kinda joke is this? TA-ZH1ES was is out by 2016, do you call this a support? I have no words, Sony Italian support 5-6 Times I needed support they missed so bad everytime i asked, they so bad, that they are easily the World's worst support ever, maybe the worst support-not support ever :S


----------



## TSAVAlan

diadack said:


> Yes its very analytical and has exquisite detail, its also not warm at all. The filters however don't really do much besides X PHD which adds some space and soundstage but I don't think it does it very well, at least with my LCD 4zs and focal Utopias I've used on this amp


The 4Z and Utopia will pair well with the TA-ZH1ES if you are looking to go balanced on it. In a perfect world, I would suggest using the Hugo 2 rca into the TA-ZH1ES so you could get the Dac of the H2 and the amp of the TA-ZH1ES but that would be quite a bit of money.



Viper Necklampy said:


> I'll be really grateful if you'll try with optical, on game console if you have, with Dsee hx and DSDremastering
> I had to ask Sony two times, first, they miscomprended my question, telling me it works in optical. I did know that, it have an optical input! And second, they tell it works with Dsee hx and DSDremastered, wow, what a news. But they didn't tell me if Dsee hx and DSDremastering works with optical, so i asked again.
> 
> 
> ...


Sony is a big company, I have definitely been bounced around the Sony support line before finding the right guy in USA who could help me with the NW-WM1Z question.


----------



## diadack

TSAVAlan said:


> The 4Z and Utopia will pair well with the TA-ZH1ES if you are looking to go balanced on it. In a perfect world, I would suggest using the Hugo 2 rca into the TA-ZH1ES so you could get the Dac of the H2 and the amp of the TA-ZH1ES but that would be quite a bit of money.
> 
> wouldn't it defeat the purpose of a balanced out if the Hugo's dac is not balanced? The Hugo cannot be used as a pure dac anyways, I'm also experimenting right now if an DAC even matters. I've heard arguments on both sides I just want to be sure.


----------



## diadack

TSAVAlan said:


> The 4Z and Utopia will pair well with the TA-ZH1ES if you are looking to go balanced on it. In a perfect world, I would suggest using the Hugo 2 rca into the TA-ZH1ES so you could get the Dac of the H2 and the amp of the TA-ZH1ES but that would be quite a bit of money..



wouldn't it defeat the purpose of a balanced out if the Hugo's dac is not balanced? The Hugo cannot be used as a pure dac anyways, I'm also experimenting right now if an DAC even matters. I've heard arguments on both sides I just want to be sure


----------



## TSAVAlan

diadack said:


> wouldn't it defeat the purpose of a balanced out if the Hugo's dac is not balanced? The Hugo cannot be used as a pure dac anyways, I'm also experimenting right now if an DAC even matters. I've heard arguments on both sides I just want to be sure


You would still be getting the benefit of the Balanced amp of the Sony. Individual amps driving each channel giving you better channel separation, bigger soundstage, more power than single ended, and a slight gain. I am a big fan of the Chord dacs at a personal level.


----------



## nc8000

Viper Necklampy said:


> I'll be really grateful if you'll try with optical, on game console if you have and can, with Dsee hx and DSDremastering, to see if those amazings functions work even on Optical toslink
> I had to ask Sony two times, first, they miscomprended my question, telling me it works in optical. I did know that, it have an optical input! And second, they tell it works with Dsee hx and DSDremastered, wow, what a news. But they didn't tell me if Dsee hx and DSDremastering works with optical, so i asked again.
> 
> 
> ...



I run optical from my tv to the Sony and I assume both features work as the indicator lights on the front are on. Just be aware the dsee only works up to 48khz and 24 bits


----------



## Viper Necklampy

tradyblix said:


> I imagine it might have benefits. It would be the last thing I upgraded in any system. Headphones first, then cables and filters, then power after the amp.





nc8000 said:


> I run optical from my tv to the Sony and I assume both features work as the indicator lights on the front are on. Just be aware the dsee only works up to 48khz and 24 bits


Nice, i need to be sure about it, otherwise probably i will not get TA-ZH1ES, ehm, do you need differences with Dsee and DSDre with optical like it is on usb ? It sound good? tradyblix i would really glad if you try yourself when you can


----------



## nc8000

Viper Necklampy said:


> Nice, i need to be sure about it, otherwise probably i will not get TA-ZH1ES, ehm, do you need differences with Dsee and DSDre with optical like it is on usb ? It sound good? tradyblix i would really glad if you try yourself when you can



I just set it up when I got the amp 2 years ago, have never done any critical listening to detect the effect


----------



## Viper Necklampy

TSAVAlan said:


> The 4Z and Utopia will pair well with the TA-ZH1ES if you are looking to go balanced on it. In a perfect world, I would suggest using the Hugo 2 rca into the TA-ZH1ES so you could get the Dac of the H2 and the amp of the TA-ZH1ES but that would be quite a bit of money.
> 
> Sony is a big company, I have definitely been bounced around the Sony support line before finding the right guy in USA who could help me with the NW-WM1Z question.


I heard the TA-ZH1ES has a very very good dac and the amp was not so good instead.. Did you tried it? You think amp is better?
But god if Sony support suck, such a big company and 0 support value.. 0!!


----------



## TSAVAlan

Viper Necklampy said:


> I heard the TA-ZH1ES has a very very good dac and the amp was not so good instead.. Did you tried it? You think amp is better?
> But god if Sony support suck, such a big company and 0 support value.. 0!!


I like the Dac on the Sony TA-ZH1ES, it is by no means a bad dac. Definitely a warmer sound than the Hugo 2.


----------



## nc8000

Viper Necklampy said:


> I heard the TA-ZH1ES has a very very good dac and the amp was not so good instead.. Did you tried it? You think amp is better?
> But god if Sony support suck, such a big company and 0 support value.. 0!!



I find the Sony to be a better total solution than my previous setup which was the dac in my Audiolab cd player going balanced into a RudiStor RPX-100 quad mono fully balanced amp so both the dac part and the amp part are very good


----------



## Viper Necklampy

nc8000 said:


> I find the Sony to be a better total solution than my previous setup which was the dac in my Audiolab cd player going balanced into a RudiStor RPX-100 quad mono fully balanced amp so both the dac part and the amp part are very good


I'm sold
I just need to make sure Optical Toslink works fine with DSEE HX and DSD Remastering  And if sounds good in it.


----------



## trappedintime

Viper Necklampy said:


> I'm sold
> I just need to make sure Optical Toslink works fine with DSEE HX and DSD Remastering  And if sounds good in it.


It does. Same way it works on the UDA-1. It's just a filter your enabling. It works on all inputs. Personally I think it's one of the most worthless things Sony continually hypes in their hifi marketing.


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Apr 10, 2019)

trappedintime said:


> It does. Same way it works on the UDA-1. It's just a filter your enabling. It works on all inputs. Personally I think it's one of the most worthless things Sony continually hypes in their hifi marketing.


Tried? You can certify me that? I also hope that sound with toslink and dsee and mostly DSDremastering don't lag/retard too much, because i will use mostly for gaming on new and olds Playstations, with DSEE and DSDre on games will be a dream come true 
Well, it depends mostly how you like upsampled sound, i do really like it.. I didn't tried DSD remastering Engine but they talk nice, i did tried native DSD, will be interesting how singleplayer gaming will sound with DSDre lol
Why i say lol
This is no joke stuff


----------



## trappedintime

Viper Necklampy said:


> Tried? You can certify me that? I also hope that sound with toslink and dsee and mostly DSDremastering don't lag/retard too much, because i will use mostly for gaming on new and olds Playstations, with DSEE and DSDre on games will be a dream come true
> Well, it depends mostly how you like upsampled sound, i do really like it.. I didn't tried DSD remastering Engine but they talk nice, i did tried native DSD, will be interesting how singleplayer gaming will sound with DSDre lol
> Why i say lol
> This is no joke stuff


DSD remastering is just more marketing speak. It's a FPGA dac that upsamples in DSD if you so choose. That's how it works, which is why doing DSD upsampling on the source end is counterintuitive to using a DSD upsampling DAC. This is just how the PS Audio Direcstream and DSJ work only with them the DSD upsampling is built-in so even your PCM gets upsampled. 

I will give you this though, never seen someone care SO much about the filters almost everyone ends up ignoring lol


----------



## Viper Necklampy

trappedintime said:


> DSD remastering is just more marketing speak. It's a FPGA dac that upsamples in DSD if you so choose. That's how it works, which is why doing DSD upsampling on the source end is counterintuitive to using a DSD upsampling DAC. This is just how the PS Audio Direcstream and DSJ work only with them the DSD upsampling is built-in so even your PCM gets upsampled.
> 
> I will give you this though, never seen someone care SO much about the filters almost everyone ends up ignoring lol


I care about upsampling because i think is sounds better, and i think that should be the future standard, like the 'revolutionary' HDR remastering on tv's by Sony, and their chip and bla bla..
To you those 'filters' could count as: just waste of money/0/almost 0/little.. To me I care about, and it's amazing that i could do Upsampling to dsd on the fly playing old Playstations 2 and 3 (Yes, i'm an appassionate gamer) Just that, i associate Sony as bringing the future but hey, don't listen the words in this phrase ;p


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Apr 12, 2019)

Ops i replied without purpose my previous post, can't delete this, sorry..


----------



## trappedintime

I think you missed my point cause I have DSD upsampling DAC's and think they're better than PCM dacs for sure. I've just never found filters particularly useful and Sony has a history of marketing gimmicky features like that (DSEE has been their gimmick for a decade).


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Apr 12, 2019)

trappedintime said:


> I think you missed my point cause I have DSD upsampling DAC's and think they're better than PCM dacs for sure. I've just never found filters particularly useful and Sony has a history of marketing gimmicky features like that (DSEE has been their gimmick for a decade).


Yeah i heard that you like that found the DSD upsampling from dac's good actually, good to hear, i was just generalizing before, sorry to not point that  And you never seen any other person to care about those 'filters' because.. It's real, because i really care about them, would be the only way to play old console in toslink optical  with upsampled audio, years ago was unthinkable, as i said i really like 'upsampled audio hi-res' audio and i got almost all Sony stuff, my Xperia maybe can work as hi-res audio player without Spending money on walkman (I don't really know if walkman's got better sound quality to connect the Amp vs PC or smartphones, but my foobar2000 is buzzling a little, i just hope with Xperia or sony hi-res audio player will work nice and without buzz), anyway i don't buy the TA-ZH1ES for music, well it's nice to have some music, but i'll use mostly for gaming, i could probably be the first to buy that for gaming purpose ahah
And yeah, Dsee hx and DSDre filters also really work as a marketing specs, work as their business..
Anyway i only heard great things about this amp, and, his main streght could probably be is durability, Sony is known for that, TA-ZH1ES seems not excepcion, i think even in 10-15 years this amp will work perfectly.. And maybe something like THX 789 and SMSL D1 dac could fall after short years? Maybe that already happened to someone..


----------



## trappedintime

DSD Remastering as Sony calls it is not a filter. Let's be clear about that. Filters shape the sound. DSD upsampling is a completely different way of converting the audio, not just a filter.


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Apr 12, 2019)

trappedintime said:


> DSD Remastering as Sony calls it is not a filter. Let's be clear about that. Filters shape the sound. DSD upsampling is a completely different way of converting the audio, not just a filter.


Ok fine, but DSEE HX as i know is an upsampler too, it brings up to 384khz/32bit, how would you call it? It's a technology/function that apply filters to make it happen, like dsd i think.. Hope to be on the right way ahah  Well i could be wrong too, because i don't get how the Dsee hx can work together with DSDre, is they can


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Apr 12, 2019)

.


----------



## trappedintime

Viper Necklampy said:


> Ok fine, but DSEE HX as i know is an upsampler too, it brings up to 384khz/32bit, how would you call it? It's a technology/function that apply filters to make it happen, like dsd i think.. Hope to be on the right way ahah


https://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound...248k-files-and-true-high-res-audio-wow-437891

This is worth a read about DSEE though...


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Apr 12, 2019)

trappedintime said:


> https://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound...248k-files-and-true-high-res-audio-wow-437891
> 
> This is worth a read about DSEE though...


Already Read that months ago 
Also, same question could go with DSD remastering, converting all PCM signals to their DSD creation, strange but tasty uh? Ahah S-Master HX is the stranger here uuhh, 'what kinda thing is this thing?!' lol


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Apr 12, 2019)

Viper Necklampy said:


> Already Read that months ago
> Also, same question could go with DSD remastering, converting all PCM signals to their DSD creation, strange but tasty uh? Ahah S-Master HX is the stranger here uuhh, 'what kinda thing is this thing?!' lol


 Sorry again, dunno what's happening while i'll just modify my posts..


----------



## trappedintime

It's not a mystery with DSD. It simply sounds better when it doesn't have to go through the SDM/SRC/multibit conversion process that it must go through in most chips that were designed primarily for processing PCM. FPGA DSD upsampling uses a 1bit sample that's then converted. Much better results in comparison to traditional PCM upsampling.


----------



## Automata

My Focal Stellia sounds so much better after I connect it to the ZH1ES compares to my WM1Z. It’s an end game combo to me.


----------



## Mund1

Automata said:


> My Focal Stellia sounds so much better after I connect it to the ZH1ES compares to my WM1Z. It’s an end game combo to me.


 ....  Well that makes everything costlier! LOL

What about the Z1R's hooked up directly to the WM1Z, (anybody with experience), decent sound, sufficient power?

Thinking that perhaps the (2) for now, adding the ZH1ES later...


----------



## Sp12er3 (Apr 15, 2019)

Zeos reviewed the amp, sadly not with the Z1R to try it with.


He very hesitantly not excited about how it sounds (but then again he's more of a Powaaaaaa~! guy when reviewing amp stage, precisely the TA's Achilles heel)

But loves the build and care put into it. 

He said "if it's $1K tho, it's a buy".


----------



## Mund1

Sp12er3 said:


> Zeos reviewed the amp, sadly not with the Z1R to try it with.
> 
> 
> He very hesitantly not excited about how it sounds (but then again he's more of a Powaaaaaa~! guy when reviewing amp stage, precisely the TA's Achilles heel)
> ...





Yes... He doesn't seem very stoked about it does he ?

AND... this was a goal of mine to eventually get.


----------



## nc8000

Mund1 said:


> Yes... He doesn't seem very stoked about it does he ?
> 
> AND... this was a goal of mine to eventually get.



Good goal, stick to it


----------



## TSAVJason

nc8000 said:


> Good goal, stick to it



+1 ...... I think his cost complaints are limited to his pocket book constraints not the quality of the unit. In fact most of his comments appear to be based on his limited budget. Sony must not think much of his review skills or they would have offered to loan him review units.


----------



## Mund1

Get the WM1Z as well, or any other suggestions for a DAP?

Just seems like (as I read about those fortunate enough to have) the WM1Z, Z1R, and the ZH1ES Trifecta is pretty darn SWEET!


----------



## nc8000 (Apr 15, 2019)

Mund1 said:


> Get the WM1Z as well, or any other suggestions for a DAP?
> 
> Just seems like (as I read about those fortunate enough to have) the WM1Z, Z1R, and the ZH1ES Trifecta is pretty darn SWEET!



I use an Auralic Aries Mini as source for the TA as the storage capacity of the 1Z is way too small for my home rig but love the 1Z as my travel (not on the go) rig


----------



## tradyblix

Z... lol whatever. He said it was overbuilt in the comments and I knew right then and there he didn't appreciate the work that went into the ZH1. Maybe he's trying to use Audeze's or other hard to drive cans with it, it didn't have a lot of headroom with my LCD-2 when I had it. 

As far as DSEE HX, I somewhat felt it made more of a difference on the PHA-3 than it does on the ZH1. The ZH1 is a more sophisticated sound to start with and I just leave all it's features on, they all sound good to me and are part of why I bought it. Sometimes I turn them off, but I usually end up with them all on eventually. 

Listening to it with my new Meze Empyreans tonight. Like the Utopia it has a wonderful synergy with it and I can reach the full volume I need around -20 to -15 db on high gain, similar to the Utopia, maybe needing a slight bit more.


----------



## One and a half

Sp12er3 said:


> Zeos reviewed the amp, sadly not with the Z1R to try it with.
> 
> 
> He very hesitantly not excited about how it sounds (but then again he's more of a Powaaaaaa~! guy when reviewing amp stage, precisely the TA's Achilles heel)
> ...



This is the same reviewer for the Gishelli Dac, that review was a total bore, so is this review if it can be called that. Oh it’s expensive, so is the RMS Queen Mary, the point? Gave up after 4 mins with the sticker rant. Hires audio sticker means something as well as 20-20k look it up.


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## Sp12er3 (Apr 16, 2019)

TSAVJason said:


> +1 ...... I think his cost complaints are limited to his pocket book constraints not the quality of the unit. In fact most of his comments appear to be based on his limited budget. Sony must not think much of his review skills or they would have offered to loan him review units.


Well OK the other hand Patron send him stuffs, do Sony even send Demo to anyone? I thought only dealers got them. 
About the review itself, well~
He's not really iffed about the build, he loves it for its simplicity actually, what it can do, plugging 5 headphones at the same time, the remote, etc.

He's just not too cuffed with how underpowered he feels it is for the weight and heat it give off.

He's not really one to use IEM on desktop, and his lightest to drive Fullsize is the AD2000X. Heck he even commented, "plug in a Liquid spark to its RCA out and compare the A/B amp power on it".

For its sound. He ain't wowed by it, "it's. . Good", preferred his own THX789 to it.
DSEEHX, he said " try it out, on off for a couple hours, if you like the change, leave it on, if not, off", he much prefer a self adjustable EQ with clear technical term than the random DSP name like "string", or "acoustic" etc (like I also wonder what the heck does that naming   mean, lol)

Well I know TA's Amp power is its Achilles heel, so I guess it's just not for him in the first place.

Overall I think he gave it quite a fair shake, he also shows basically all the quirk the amp has, in all its built, menu and settings.

Not that I'm really trying to shamelessly defend him, it's just I don't really see that vudeo has much of a bias, just a reviewer giving his opinion.

It's not even a bashing video, he snark at Chord's offerings much, much harder (poor Mojo and Qutest...)


----------



## tradyblix (Apr 16, 2019)

Well, I mean that's all fine. It's not the amp for everyone. There's a ton of great amps out there after all. Including tube amps.

As far as the amps power, I know that it can drive the Utopia, the Empyrean and the HD800 completely adequately and at safe levels for long periods of fatigue free listening....

The only time I noticed that I was close to maxing it out was with the LCD-2, which struggled to be as efficient as other headphones. And even then, I was able to get it amped, for me, well. So it might not be the best pick for say, an LCD-4z unless it's gotten more efficient (never had one).

I also have an HD600 at 300 ohms that has no issues with it, but I never use that headphone anymore for obvious reasons.

I am using it in balanced mode and high gain for everything but IEMs, so maybe it's single ended power is the issue for some ? Dunno.

I guess I've had other more powerful amps - I had a tube amp that I couldn't use the full range of the dial with (nothing past 12 o'clock) or it would be painful -  not sure how useful that is in actual real life tho.

But I really question that it is not powerful enough. Especially since I know that it is great with some of the best cans out there.

Protect your hearing folks ! Don't listen at 100+ db for long periods, you WILL have problems when you get older ! Dont' continue to turn volume up after you have it at a level you feel is good.

Anyway, Z is not my style. He's got a big youtube following of younger people it seems like, I'm more of a Tyll or Currawong type person.


----------



## trappedintime

I've got a brand new TA coming in at the end of the week. Pretty excited.


----------



## TSAVAlan

Sp12er3 said:


> Well OK the other hand Patron send him stuffs, do Sony even send Demo to anyone? I thought only dealers got them.
> About the review itself, well~
> He's not really iffed about the build, he loves it for its simplicity actually, what it can do, plugging 5 headphones at the same time, the remote, etc.
> 
> ...


Sony does send review units but Zeos does get most of his gear from fans. He does get gear from manufacturers to review though.

From a previous experience as a manufacturer sending him gear, he was quite easy to work with and quite professional.


----------



## Automata

Im enjoying the Stellia / TA combo. Pretty good synergy.


----------



## Sp12er3

TSAVAlan said:


> Sony does send review units but Zeos does get most of his gear from fans. He does get gear from manufacturers to review though.
> 
> From a previous experience as a manufacturer sending him gear, he was quite easy to work with and quite professional.


Ah alright, that's good to know, it just thought Sony isn't quite as into review samples as other, more boutique brand, looking at how few did get and make a review of them I didn't think I'was wrong, good to know that there's some means to get a review directly from them then.

(I did remember Tyll said his Z1R was from Sony themselves, but he was kinda late on that review, and seems to be done in a quite a narrow review window)


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Apr 17, 2019)

You know what would be cool? If the TA-ZH1ES could be measured in FR to see if have an actual boost in higher Frequencies up to 80khz like WM1Z
FUN STUFF/TIP, don't judge me: How nice would be that boost, in their DSD creation, with their first implemention of upsampling with Dsee hx, i mean, they create even Toslink connection in audio that i'm using with PlayStations, have we ever seen boosted high frequencies like in WM1Z and Pha-3 before? They have the only headphones marketed as 100 and 120khz, this drive me nuts. Sorry 

Also, would really like to some real measurements! Which don't spoil the real sound but.. Measurements are measurements, and should come with every Amp/dac, but on 99% of product there aren't.. I Read somewhere that with coaxial Dynamic range is 106db, not the best in that repart actually


----------



## Viper Necklampy (Apr 17, 2019)

Sorry, I know why i make double post, probably i reply to mine while i try to modify, there is a method to delete this kinda useless posts?


----------



## tradyblix

amps dont usually get the same attention from reviewers that headphones get, either. Outside of a few very well known brands like chord and schiit. And sony def didnt do what meze did with regard to getting product in “influencer” hands.


----------



## purk

I think the TA-ZH1ES is a strong product from Sony.  You are paying more for the craftsmanship, in/out connections, 5-year ES warranty, preamp, remote control, DSD upsampling, DAC out features and a really good (albeit slightly under power for Orthos) Headamp section.  Yes, the asking price isn’t cheap but the up and coming Headamp GS-X Mini is almost $2000 but offer less in features but likely with better sound.  I think the TA-Z1ES should be reviewed against the Questyle 12/master and see who will come out on top.


----------



## TSAVAlan

Sp12er3 said:


> Ah alright, that's good to know, it just thought Sony isn't quite as into review samples as other, more boutique brand, looking at how few did get and make a review of them I didn't think I'was wrong, good to know that there's some means to get a review directly from them then.
> 
> (I did remember Tyll said his Z1R was from Sony themselves, but he was kinda late on that review, and seems to be done in a quite a narrow review window)


Sony has lot of products and lots of teams so I can sometimes imagine how many steps of approval it can take to get a Sony for review 

The IER-Z1R is super high demand right now from Sony, I can't get any to fill my orders! So anyone asking to review that is probably on a long list...


----------



## ZenErik

Interested in purchasing one of these if anyone has one available. Already have a thread up but figured I would post here too. Thanks!


----------



## gorg (May 1, 2019)

Sp12er3 said:


> Zeos reviewed the amp, sadly not with the Z1R to try it with.
> 
> He very hesitantly not excited about how it sounds (but then again he's more of a Powaaaaaa~! guy when reviewing amp stage, precisely the TA's Achilles heel)
> 
> ...



I don't really know or care who that guy is but I have probably watched some of his videos in the past. And judging by his review tone and hardware and music preferences, it is natural for me to understand that when he bashes something then it is probably something worth buying. But since I trust MY ears over anything else and have listened to TA-ZH1ES I didn't even need to go to that road - the Amp/DAC is really good.


----------



## TSAVJason

gorg said:


> I don't really know or care who that guy is but I have probably watched some of his videos in the past. And judging by his review tone and hardware and music preferences, it is natural for me to understand that when he bashes something then it is probably something worth buying. But since I trust MY ears over anything else and have listened to TA-ZH1ES I didn't even need to go to that road - the Amp/DAC is really good.



+1 .....the guys reviews are more silly than factual or informative.


----------



## ZenErik (May 1, 2019)

Have one of these coming tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how it compares to my nano iDSD BL. I haven't seen many posts about the latency via USB on the ZH1ES. Hope it isn't as bad as what I've heard about the current Sony DAPs. I will be using it with my PC with games and movies/tv along with music.

I have to admit that part of the reason I became interested is to have a full Sony setup. It's a mistake to like the idea of matching things.

If I decide to keep it I'll need to get a nice balanced cable for my ADX5000. Wish it came with one like my MDR and IER Z1Rs.


----------



## bdjul

ZenErik said:


> Have one of these coming tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how it compares to my nano iDSD BL. I haven't seen many posts about the latency via USB on the ZH1ES. Hope it isn't as bad as what I've heard about the current Sony DAPs. I will be using it with my PC with games and movies/tv along with music.
> 
> I have to admit that part of the reason I became interested is to have a full Sony setup. It's a mistake to like the idea of matching things.
> 
> If I decide to keep it I'll need to get a nice balanced cable for my ADX5000. Wish it came with one like my MDR and IER Z1Rs.


I have wm1a and when using it as a dac It a delay for 1 sec approximately, impossible to watch something. I’m using ta-zh1es with pc for music, watching films and gaming and there is no delay or I can’t notice it.


----------



## marvin3003

ZenErik said:


> Have one of these coming tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how it compares to my nano iDSD BL. I haven't seen many posts about the latency via USB on the ZH1ES. Hope it isn't as bad as what I've heard about the current Sony DAPs. I will be using it with my PC with games and movies/tv along with music.
> 
> I have to admit that part of the reason I became interested is to have a full Sony setup. It's a mistake to like the idea of matching things.
> 
> If I decide to keep it I'll need to get a nice balanced cable for my ADX5000. Wish it came with one like my MDR and IER Z1Rs.



I do notice  some latency while watching netflix


----------



## bdjul

marvin3003 said:


> I do notice  some latency while watching netflix


Did you install Sony’s drivers?


----------



## marvin3003

bdjul said:


> Did you install Sony’s drivers?


No is just plug the ta zh1es in.
Does installing the separate sony drivers help?


----------



## bdjul

You can try. My experience was that when I plugged it in 1st time windows 10 just recognized it and set it up, but then I had delay especially on a high gain. After some time I installed a driver and update zh1es firmware and delay was gone.


----------



## ZenErik

I'll be sure to check for the drivers as well as firmware updates. Thanks for the help!


----------



## ZenErik

Ended up trying a few rhythm games to really see how the latency is. Via USB on PC and via optical on PS4 there really isn't much of any additional latency with DSD Remaster and DSEE HX both enabled. It's possible that there is a small number of milliseconds difference, but I'm not really skilled enough to notice.

That said is it worth enabling DSEE HX if 95% of my music files are already at least redbook quality? I've done a little reading about DSEE HX, but it mostly refers to lossy files. I haven't done any critical listening yet to see if I notice anything. Probably will give it a go over the weekend.


----------



## Sp12er3

Those tunings change things, whether you turn it on or not is just really whether you like the cvange or not really, it's easy to A/B it with the quick on off setting on the remote anyway. Give it a go


----------



## adrian.sandu092

Does setting this unit up alongside a Chord 2Qute + LPS (MCRU) make a difference or should I use it as a standalone unit?   
*Probably a silly question.*


----------



## tradyblix (May 5, 2019)

Its primarily designed as an all in one solution, but you can use a separate Dac and just use the amp stage if you prefer. Asking about exotic combinations is usually not fruitful because few have the experience mixing equipment you ask for. So... very few probably know.

Some people have way more powerful amps but my experience with tube amps generally is that the max Watt output quoted isnt accurate. The watts in actuality vary depending on resistance and impedance, so there is a sweet spot. I’m not sure you should go by that, all I know is that the LCD series so far is the only headphone leaving me wanting more out of the amp stage.

There are probably more powerful dedicated amps that might be better choices for a dedicated dac + amp build, but its hard to know until you compare, which makes the hobby exciting.


----------



## Aliv3

Has anyone tried the klipsch hp-3 with the ZH1ES?
Thanks


----------



## tradyblix (May 11, 2019)

I can tell you this... the TA-ZH1ES sounds great and has great headroom (~15-20 db) with both the Focal Utopia and Meze Empyrean headphones. And i'm pretty deaf so I tend to listen louder than I should


----------



## trappedintime (May 10, 2019)

I've been using the TA-ZH1ES for about 3 weeks now. I've run it with my balanced K812's, the MDR-Z1R, and Focal Elears. I'm probably going to stick with this as my daily driver in my office rig with Roon for the foreseeable future. Being able to connect a few different headphones and switch depending on what type of music I'm listening to with the press of a button (on the remote) is a very useful feature.

It smokes the Oppo HA-1 I used for several years, and it's really not far behind the Directstream Jr + Ragnarok combo I was using in my office last year (which retails for almost 3x the price of the TAZ). I just need gear that lets me listen all day at work with little to no fatigue, and this is one of the best sounding products I've used for that purpose. Any level of detail lost in comparison to some higher end solutions is pretty negligible to me and my use cases. My DSD albums sound fantastic as well as any PCM I've thrown at it. I don't really have any mp3's to toss on, but I have done some Spotify listening with the TAZ and it sounded better than Spotify should.

Still wondering if anyone has recs on a good 2-prong power cable that might add a little extra clarity to the TAZ. Anyone have recs?


----------



## tradyblix (May 11, 2019)

I upgraded my power cable to a third party one on eBay I liked. I also used an audioquest cable with good results before that but it was too short.

Anything is better than the stock cable. Search for Audiophile Power cable and try one you like the look of. Also you can use one with a 3 pin plug with ground wire it just wont use the third plug hole.


----------



## Lookout57

I use the Audioquest NRG-X3 which is a 3 prong cable. The NRG-X2 is a 2 prong version of this cable.


----------



## greyscale75

Am having a serious look at this amp for my Senn IE 800 s. Called Sony CS today for two questions. !. Is this discontinued?. NO.  2. where is the TA-ZH1ES manufactured? The CS could not give this info. "Maybe USA" ?.  Ahh no. Would one of the dealers in this forum please answer question No. 2? thanks


----------



## TSAVJason

greyscale75 said:


> Am having a serious look at this amp for my Senn IE 800 s. Called Sony CS today for two questions. !. Is this discontinued?. NO.  2. where is the TA-ZH1ES manufactured? The CS could not give this info. "Maybe USA" ?.  Ahh no. Would one of the dealers in this forum please answer question No. 2? thanks



It’s made in Malaysia..... Sennheiser is good too.


----------



## greyscale75

TSAVJason said:


> It’s made in Malaysia..... Sennheiser is good too.


Thank You Jason.


----------



## SLMStyles

I've got a TA-ZH1ES coming next week to pair with my WM1A, but I have a quick question.  I know the WM1A (digitally) feeds the TA-ZH1ES, but do the DSP settings (DSEE/Vinyl/etc) affect this data being sent out?  Or are these effects applied only when the music is being sent to the Walkman headphones?  Basically, I just want to make sure I'm not applying the filters/effects twice (at the player and at the TA-ZH1ESZ). -- In short, does the Walkman need to be set on "Direct" prior to connecting ?


----------



## Lookout57

No, the the data transmitted via the USB interface is unaltered.


----------



## SLMStyles

Thanks for the response.  I received the unit over the weekend, and it was pretty self-explanatory once I started tinkering with it.  I know I'm late to the party with this, but the sound when paired with the WM1A is fantastic -- noticeably better than the 1A alone.


----------



## purk

I am putting my ZH1ES on sale if anyone want to take if off my hand.  Original owner and in a perfect condition.  Reason for selling is I just bought the DMP-Z1.


----------



## SLMStyles

purk said:


> I am putting my ZH1ES on sale if anyone want to take if off my hand.  Original owner and in a perfect condition.  Reason for selling is I just bought the DMP-Z1.



It'd be a great pick-up for anyone with a WM1Z/WM1A.  I would be interested, but I just bought one a few weeks back.  It's an *amazing* device.  I was on the fence about trading-up to a 1Z from my 1A, or keeping the 1A and getting this (I chose the second option).  I couldn't be happier.  Good luck with the sale.


----------



## asiano

Considering the TA-ZH1ES but mainly as a DAC using the PRE OUT to an Integrated Amp. Does the TA-ZH1ES perform well as a DAC in that scenario? I'm interested in its ability to upsample to DSD, but not if it's either compromised as a DAC or in the PRE OUT section.


----------



## Kitechaser (Jun 29, 2019)

How is the Sony TA-ZH1ES compared to a Benchmark DAC3?
I am looking to get one of these and use them as a DAC/Preamp for my full size speaker setup.
The Sony would be nice as I can also use it as a headphone amp, but I would not want to short my speaker setup if the DAC3 is objectively better.
I am getting a Magnepan 1.7i, running out of a Bryston amp.


----------



## tradyblix

purk said:


> I am putting my ZH1ES on sale if anyone want to take if off my hand.  Original owner and in a perfect condition.  Reason for selling is I just bought the DMP-Z1.



Congrats !


----------



## Soundizer

I own a TA and use it with Focal Clear with TA connected via optical to my TV. i only use for listening to Movies at night. 

Some said this is overkill for the TA, as I don’t use any of the DSD features or speaker connection.

What do you think?


I want to buy another DAC for a different room. Again only for TV Optical connected. Must have a remote control. 

Not sure I could spend another £1500 for a second TA. 
ANYONE have opinion on the RME ADI-2 vs TA? It is £600 less than TA.


----------



## nc8000

Soundizer said:


> I own a TA and use it with Focal Clear with TA connected via optical to my TV. i only use for listening to Movies at night.
> 
> Some said this is overkill for the TA, as I don’t use any of the DSD features or speaker connection.
> 
> ...



I run a usb connection from my Auralic Aries Mini with all my music and an optical connection from my tv for movies and both work great


----------



## Hellraiser86

Soundizer said:


> I own a TA and use it with Focal Clear with TA connected via optical to my TV. i only use for listening to Movies at night.
> 
> Some said this is overkill for the TA, as I don’t use any of the DSD features or speaker connection.
> 
> ...


I can reccomend the ADI-2 if you want a clean sound. The Soundstage is also a bit narrower.


----------



## Jacob ISR

Hi to All.
Need some help here.
Just got the TA-ZH1ES for my Z1R .
Instaled the Driver, instaled the Sony Hi-res PLayer.
Using Jriver -  there is 2 options to configure the output:
1) Headphone TA-ZH1ES  (WASAPI)
2) Sony Headphone Amplifire driver (ASIO)

I dont hear any difference betwin the two and the sound ... not that good.

On the other hand, if i play files through "Sony Hi-Res PLayer" - the sound has 30% more volume and much more dymanic.

What am I doing wrong?

THX

Jacob.


----------



## Sanlitun

I've noticed a couple of interesting things about this unit along the way. It looks like Sony has cooked up their own USB receiver setup using a TI chip. I gather they have done it to be able to receive DSD512 in the manner they want to without conversion. Their setup does use the +5V from the USB and it is by far the device most susceptible to presenting USB issues that I have ever listened to. Cleaning up the USB connection made a big difference in imaging and detail for me and has made a good unit into a great one. I now have it connected to a motherboard that allows me to disable the +5V on the USB connection, and then I have it going through an old iUSB 2.0 that provides an isolated +5. A split cable and a battery works well too so not an expensive tweak. 

The sound is just fabulous like this, liquid silky and detailed. I've compared the Sony to a lot of other units over the past year and while there have been some setups that I have thought sounded fun it's the Sony that has remained on my desk.


----------



## Jacob ISR

Sanlitun said:


> I've noticed a couple of interesting things about this unit along the way. It looks like Sony has cooked up their own USB receiver setup using a TI chip. I gather they have done it to be able to receive DSD512 in the manner they want to without conversion. Their setup does use the +5V from the USB and it is by far the device most susceptible to presenting USB issues that I have ever listened to. Cleaning up the USB connection made a big difference in imaging and detail for me and has made a good unit into a great one. I now have it connected to a motherboard that allows me to disable the +5V on the USB connection, and then I have it going through an old iUSB 2.0 that provides an isolated +5. A split cable and a battery works well too so not an expensive tweak.
> 
> The sound is just fabulous like this, liquid silky and detailed. I've compared the Sony to a lot of other units over the past year and while there have been some setups that I have thought sounded fun it's the Sony that has remained on my desk.



Instead of opening the DAC and..... why not use this litlle device https://usbdisruptor.com/


----------



## Soundizer

Hellraiser86 said:


> I can reccomend the ADI-2 if you want a clean sound. The Soundstage is also a bit narrower.



The Soundstage is narrower on the ADI-2?


----------



## Hellraiser86

Soundizer said:


> The Soundstage is narrower on the ADI-2?


In comparison to the TA definitely in every direction (more focused to the width). But that does not mean the ADI has a small Soundstage. It is more like my Hugo 2 in that regard.


----------



## Kitechaser

Hellraiser86 said:


> In comparison to the TA definitely in every direction (more focused to the width). But that does not mean the ADI has a small Soundstage. It is more like my Hugo 2 in that regard.


Would I be able to use the WM1A as a USB source for the ADI-2? Or is that just a Sony TA-ZH1ES feature?


----------



## nc8000

Kitechaser said:


> Would I be able to use the WM1A as a USB source for the ADI-2? Or is that just a Sony TA-ZH1ES feature?



It should work as a usb source for any usb dac


----------



## Kitechaser (Jul 7, 2019)

nc8000 said:


> It should work as a usb source for any usb dac


Sweet. Thanks
I need 2 dacs for my speaker setups, getting a Buchardt S400 Bookshelf speaker with my Magnepan 1.7i.
I can get 2 ADI-2s for the price of 1 Benchmark Dac3.
Gotta save money wherever I can 

The Bookshelf speakers will only have the WM1A as a source. 
The Magnepans are going to connected to my computer.


----------



## gsiu33

asiano said:


> Considering the TA-ZH1ES but mainly as a DAC using the PRE OUT to an Integrated Amp. Does the TA-ZH1ES perform well as a DAC in that scenario? I'm interested in its ability to upsample to DSD, but not if it's either compromised as a DAC or in the PRE OUT section.



I connected TA-ZH1ES to the integrated amp (which has by pass pre-amp input). For the source, I have AK240 (via USB) and CD player (optical) connected to TA-ZH1ES.

I am quite satisfied with the sound quality, better than the DAC of the CD player.


----------



## Soundizer

Hellraiser86 said:


> In comparison to the TA definitely in every direction (more focused to the width). But that does not mean the ADI has a small Soundstage. It is more like my Hugo 2 in that regard.



I think you are a good person to ask since you have both. 

If you had to keep only one which would it be - TA or AFI?


----------



## Hellraiser86

Soundizer said:


> I think you are a good person to ask since you have both.
> 
> If you had to keep only one which would it be - TA or AFI?


That is a tough one  because I use the ADI just for mastering work and the TA is for my fun listening. To come to a conclusion, if both were for my music listening system I would stick with the TA (I do not need eq or all the extras) just for sound. It depends though which headphones you are using. For example I have got the Sony MDR-Z1R and they sound brilliant with the TA but do loose some fun with the ADI. But this is completely different with my Audeze LCD-X (my mastering headphones) which do sound a bit muddy with the it. But to be fair the most of my headphones sound awesome with the TA (just some of them with the ADI).


----------



## Lookout57

Sanlitun said:


> I've noticed a couple of interesting things about this unit along the way. It looks like Sony has cooked up their own USB receiver setup using a TI chip. I gather they have done it to be able to receive DSD512 in the manner they want to without conversion. Their setup does use the +5V from the USB and it is by far the device most susceptible to presenting USB issues that I have ever listened to. Cleaning up the USB connection made a big difference in imaging and detail for me and has made a good unit into a great one. I now have it connected to a motherboard that allows me to disable the +5V on the USB connection, and then I have it going through an old iUSB 2.0 that provides an isolated +5. A split cable and a battery works well too so not an expensive tweak.
> 
> The sound is just fabulous like this, liquid silky and detailed. I've compared the Sony to a lot of other units over the past year and while there have been some setups that I have thought sounded fun it's the Sony that has remained on my desk.


Is this on the Walkman micro USB or the PC USB-B?


----------



## Soundizer

Hellraiser86 said:


> That is a tough one  because I use the ADI just for mastering work and the TA is for my fun listening. To come to a conclusion, if both were for my music listening system I would stick with the TA (I do not need eq or all the extras) just for sound. It depends though which headphones you are using. For example I have got the Sony MDR-Z1R and they sound brilliant with the TA but do loose some fun with the ADI. But this is completely different with my Audeze LCD-X (my mastering headphones) which do sound a bit muddy with the it. But to be fair the most of my headphones sound awesome with the TA (just some of them with the ADI).



Thank you for the Clear explanation which makes me think I should get another TA. just need to save up a bit for it. 

Does the TA have enough power to drive the Z1R via the quarter inch input/6.35mm?


----------



## Hellraiser86

Soundizer said:


> Thank you for the Clear explanation which makes me think I should get another TA. just need to save up a bit for it.
> 
> Does the TA have enough power to drive the Z1R via the quarter inch input/6.35mm?


Headphones like the Z1R, LCD-X, Sennheiser 660S or Utopias are no problem at all. Even the unballanced connection has more than enough power. You ll probably never reach more than 70% with it (for example I can not listen above 50%)


----------



## Soundizer

I am looking to get some active speakers and connect to the TA. 

I know this is a headphone DAC, but will it do well to connect to active speakers?
I am not very technical so don’t know what type of speakers are compatible.  

My budget is £750.


----------



## Lookout57

I have the Audioengine A5+ powered and S8 Subwoofer connected to the TA in my office, works great.


----------



## Soundizer

Lookout57 said:


> I have the Audioengine A5+ powered and S8 Subwoofer connected to the TA in my office, works great.


Thank you. What is the brand for S8 Subwoofer and is it connected to A5+ or directly to your TA? Thank you. 

Is there a model above the A5+ you could recommend.? What about KEF LSX?


----------



## Lookout57

The S8 subwoofer is also from Audioengine and connects directly to the A5+.

The A5+ is their best wired powered speaker and has had great reviews. So that's why I went with it and the price was right. I didn't look at the KEF LSX since it's wireless.


----------



## trappedintime

Is anyone using the TA as a preamp with USB to a computer? Added some powered speakers and now every time a track starts/stops/is changed, there's a mechanical click heard on the DAC. Pretty much the same sound as when you turn the DAC on and off. Anyone else experiences this? I checked every menu and couldn't find anything that might address this.


----------



## tradyblix

trappedintime said:


> Is anyone using the TA as a preamp with USB to a computer? Added some powered speakers and now every time a track starts/stops/is changed, there's a mechanical click heard on the DAC. Pretty much the same sound as when you turn the DAC on and off. Anyone else experiences this? I checked every menu and couldn't find anything that might address this.



Yeah. I don't have that behavior. But not using powered speakers, using it as a headamp.


----------



## Jacob ISR

i've just made this set-up today.. heard 1 click but didnt pay to much attention to it... but i remmeber that it was when the file on the PC switched from FLAC to DSD.
I will give it more look tomorrow evevning , now it is 02:00 here 



 

Dont judge the set-up.. it was a test to see how the speakers will perform in my balcony (30 meters).... and *** the neighbors  . I'm going to build a nice cabinet for the set-up based on close range sound stage - around 1.5m distance, comfortable chair and legs up ...
Jacob.


----------



## tradyblix

Well, I can hear clicks if I switch to DSD mode, yeah. Then I hear a click, but not on switching tracks.

You don't want the power cable to be close to your speaker wire tho. Just a tip


----------



## trappedintime

tradyblix said:


> Yeah. I don't have that behavior. But not using powered speakers, using it as a headamp.


This isn't an issue using it as a headamp. But every time it changes bit rate, there's the click/switch when used as a preamp. Starting to annoy me hearing the constant click between tracks when shuffling with Roon.


----------



## tradyblix (Jul 19, 2019)

I have heard some extremely tiny click sounds maybe when switching from PCM to DoP or something like that.

Sorry to hear that you have that, I guess what I do would be upsample from Roon, your computer's CPU likely is better at it anyway, and then just have a constant, upsampled bitrate to the Tazzy.

If it sounds good to you, then you maybe you won't switch and have the clicking ?


----------



## Jacob ISR

THanks "tradyblix" , you are right about the power cable , didnt pay attentin to it ... was more excited that the sound was excelent compared to my "in house" set-up (bad acoustics).
Using TA with headphones - i didnt hear any click .... but i had my HP on me all the time  . I will make a thorow check tomorrow.


----------



## Jacob ISR

For pre-amp you need to change the output selector - so i think that it change the AMP section routing inside (vs headphone AMP) , so probably it is biuld to switch "off" when no sound.... try to setup your PC player to gaples playback . Maybe this will stop this.


----------



## trappedintime

Jacob ISR said:


> For pre-amp you need to change the output selector - so i think that it change the AMP section routing inside (vs headphone AMP) , so probably it is biuld to switch "off" when no sound.... try to setup your PC player to gaples playback . Maybe this will stop this.


I have Roon set up for exclusive mode. There's no gaps. It's when the bitrate changes that the switch and click occur. DSD Remastering is on, DC Phase linearizer off, auto volume down off, analog in format dsd11.2MHz, pre-out variable, auto standby off. It's just strange that it kills the connection every time audio stops being fed to the preamp section.


----------



## SLMStyles

I’m pretty sure this is expected behavior when the unit switches clocks (when changing bitrates).  This exact same behavior is seen in the portable Walkman (WM1A and 1Z).  I only really notice it when I’m playing random songs and the bitrates are all over the place).

I don’t even really pay attention to it anymore, but a lot of new Walkman owners ask the same thing.  (I also have a TA-ZH1ES, and sometimes notice this)


----------



## Soundizer (Jul 22, 2019)

Using my Focal Clear I find the audio experience better with 6.35mm output compared to XLR output of my TA.

I am using the stock Focal Clear cables which are not bad.

I only listen to TV Movies connected to digital optical input of the TA.

*Q1. Excuse my lack of knowledge, but I thought XLR output is supposed to be better and more powerful than 6.35mm?
Q2. Can anyone then explain the above in simple terms if possible?
Q3. Perhaps the audio source is supposed to be balanced - whatever that means, to take advantage of XLR?
Q4. OR have others found the XLR not as sweet sounding as the TA’s 6.35mm?*


----------



## nc8000

Soundizer said:


> Using my Focal Clear I find the audio experience better with 6.35mm output compared to XLR output of my TA.
> 
> I am using the stock Focal Clear cables which are not bad.
> 
> ...



It does not matter if the source is single ended or balanced as everything gets converted to digital when entering the TA. I have not used the xlr out but to me the 4.4 out is better than 1/4” out but not night and day, just subtle. Some headphones respond more to balanced than others


----------



## Soundizer

nc8000 said:


> It does not matter if the source is single ended or balanced as everything gets converted to digital when entering the TA. I have not used the xlr out but to me the 4.4 out is better than 1/4” out but not night and day, just subtle. Some headphones respond more to balanced than others


Thank you.

4.4? This is the Pentagon right - unfortunately I don’t have such a cable for it.

Ideally the Z1R Sony Headphones have it, but too expensive in uk.


----------



## nc8000

Soundizer said:


> Thank you.
> 
> 4.4? This is the Pentagon right - unfortunately I don’t have such a cable for it.
> 
> Ideally the Z1R Sony Headphones have it, but too expensive in uk.



Yes that is the Pentacon. However I would have expected the 4.4 and xlr to sound identical


----------



## tradyblix

Soundizer said:


> Using my Focal Clear I find the audio experience better with 6.35mm output compared to XLR output of my TA.



Use what you think sounds best. There are many amps that sound amazing out of 1/4" so I wouldn't worry about it. I tend to use XLR because there's more power there according to the specs.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Furuteck



I once saw a member with a Furutech XLR with a 4.4mm out....no cable. Totally cool.


----------



## Luke Redgen

Hey,

I am trying to find a splitter cable to split either 3.5 or 4.4mm female to 2 * 3.5mm male to connect to that output of the amp, but I'm not sure where to find this cable. Everywhere I look there are cables to split microphone and headphone from such headsets but nothing to split in to mono channels. Am I searching for it wrong?

~ LR


----------



## Soundizer

What is the best way to connect Apple iPad Pro to the TA? 

I use TIDAL HIFI on my iPad Pro. 

It has a USB-C output.


----------



## purk

Redcarmoose said:


> Furuteck
> 
> 
> 
> I once saw a member with a Furutech XLR with a 4.4mm out....no cable. Totally cool.



Easier to do than you think.


----------



## Redcarmoose

purk said:


> Easier to do than you think.


You have one huh!


----------



## purk

Redcarmoose said:


> You have one huh!


Can make one.  The all in one 3.5 TRRS female to 4.4 mm male is more difficult to make.


----------



## One and a half

Soundizer said:


> What is the best way to connect Apple iPad Pro to the TA?
> 
> I use TIDAL HIFI on my iPad Pro.
> 
> It has a USB-C output.



The iPad is best used portable and wireless. You can try USB-C to USB-A cable, but you will soon tire of having the cable, and the driver in the Ipod may not recognise the TA either.

The TA has no wireless protocols built in only wires like Coax and optical. There's only Bluetooth left, if you can find an adapter with a digital out, something like this?

Other than that, the next step up is a computer with Roon, and using that USB out (with all its noise) into the TA.


----------



## sarnhelen

Or if you're as crazy as I am, the next step is you get a Roon server, fed by ethernet to an Ultrarendu streaming to the TA. You can use the iPad to control the Roon app. Roon then sounds far better than from a laptop, as I discovered.


----------



## SLMStyles

Soundizer said:


> What is the best way to connect Apple iPad Pro to the TA?
> 
> I use TIDAL HIFI on my iPad Pro.
> 
> It has a USB-C output.




I use my TA with my 2018 iPad Pro just fine. Usb-C to USB-A cable (non-OTG / on-the-go  connector). I use the setup with Qobuz/Tidal/Apple Music. It sounds fantastic, and works seamlessly.


----------



## Jackotman (Sep 9, 2019)

Hi All
It takes a while to read through 133 pages of posts.

I currently have HD800S, Z7m2 and ier-M9 head/earphone and WM1A as the portable player and looking for the desktop amp/dac.

I have saw few posts here about comparing Zh1es with GS-X mini. I knew that GX-X mini didn't have DAC. If Zh1es got 100 mark, what is the mark for gs-x mini?


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## Erfan Elahi

My senior audiophiles, I am taking interest on the TA. But before that, any quick name suggestions of other desktop DACs to compare with the TA ?


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## kp297

Erfan Elahi said:


> My senior audiophiles, I am taking interest on the TA. But before that, any quick name suggestions of other desktop DACs to compare with the TA ?



SMSL D1, iFi iDSD Pro, Hugo 2/Qutest, RME-ADI2. 

You’d be hard pressed to find better competition.


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## FourT6and2

This thing vs the Sennheiser HDV 820? Just for the pure sound quality as a DAC + headphone amp for music. Source would be Macbook Pro via USB. I've tried the Sennheiser and it sounds good and I like the simplicity. The Sony seems like a worthy comparison.


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## TSAVJason

FourT6and2 said:


> This thing vs the Sennheiser HDV 820? Just for the pure sound quality as a DAC + headphone amp for music. Source would be Macbook Pro via USB. I've tried the Sennheiser and it sounds good and I like the simplicity. The Sony seems like a worthy comparison.



Both are very nice however I’d lay my vote on the Sony


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## purk

TSAVJason said:


> Both are very nice however I’d lay my vote on the Sony


 Much better built quality too!


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## tradyblix

You should definately get the Sony you will not be disapointed. Gorgeous hardware that feels worth every dollar.


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## rosci

Erfan Elahi said:


> My senior audiophiles, I am taking interest on the TA. But before that, any quick name suggestions of other desktop DACs to compare with the TA ?



T+A DAC 8 DSD

the sony is great though.


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## FourT6and2

Grabbed this thing used for $1400 and it arrived today. Tons of features. The standard output sounds good so far. But I don't really hear a difference between all the DSD, DSEE, DC Phase Linearizer settings lol. I mean... the sound cuts out for a split second every time you turn one of them on/off so it's hard to hear a change in sound. But I really don't hear it. DSEE has what I think are subtle EQ tweaks between off/standard/male vocal/female vocal/percussion settings. But I honestly don't hear a difference between each of them. The amp is built well and I love all the various headphone output options so you can basically plug anything you want into it. The screen is great and I like how it displays the sample rate and volume in dB. The volume knob (digital) works in 0.5dB steps. The unit itself is high quality. Heavy metallic surfaces and the buttons/knobs feel high quality. The amp certainly has enough juice to power any headphone. I also grabbed the Sennhieser, and it hsould arrive later this week for me to compare.


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## rosci

FourT6and2 said:


> Grabbed this thing used for $1400 and it arrived today. Tons of features. The standard output sounds good so far. But I don't really hear a difference between all the DSD, DSEE, DC Phase Linearizer settings lol. I mean... the sound cuts out for a split second every time you turn one of them on/off so it's hard to hear a change in sound. But I really don't hear it. DSEE has what I think are subtle EQ tweaks between off/standard/male vocal/female vocal/percussion settings. But I honestly don't hear a difference between each of them. The amp is built well and I love all the various headphone output options so you can basically plug anything you want into it. The screen is great and I like how it displays the sample rate and volume in dB. The volume knob (digital) works in 0.5dB steps. The unit itself is high quality. Heavy metallic surfaces and the buttons/knobs feel high quality. The amp certainly has enough juice to power any headphone. I also grabbed the Sennhieser, and it hsould arrive later this week for me to compare.


I agree, changes are subtle and I also have a hard time hearing any differences.

With one exception: DSD Remastering.

Here to me the change is clearly audible - and I don't like it. To my ears, DSD Remastering makes things sound a tad more bloated and timing gets a bit more sluggish. Unconverted PCM sounds tidier, more rhythmic, better sorted out.

Interested to hear other opinions - but DSD Remastering actually worsens things IMHO.

I have all the "sound improvement" options turned off and I'm totally happy with it.


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## Redcarmoose (Sep 18, 2019)

My TA sounds best using the dock? In comparison to using TOSLINK RCA digital from a transport the differences are pretty big. USB from a computer also sounds jumbled-up? Any sound improvements from the dock far surpass anything from the DSD remastering engine or DSEE?

It sounds the same putting the Walkman 1A or 1Z in the dock. Also going from the dock to the TA was improved using the AQCarbon USB.

https://www.amazon.com/Walkman-Cradle-BCR-NWH10-NW-ZX2-Japan/dp/B00S94R5RK

Though maybe better to get shorter than 5 feet?
https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Carbon-Cable-Type-1-5m/dp/B0041EDIIW

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-NW-WM1A-128GB-Premium-Walkman/dp/B01N1WFAI5


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## Erfan Elahi (Sep 18, 2019)

rosci said:


> I agree, changes are subtle and I also have a hard time hearing any differences.
> 
> With one exception: DSD Remastering.
> 
> ...



I don't own the TA yet, but from WM1Z difference is subtle indeed but hearable on both DSEE and DC Phase Linearizer, or at least through a brain sync to Sony's sound. But I do enjoy simple Direct Sound sometimes when I don't want to add some color.

But I do think the upscaling theory of DSEE is ridiculous. What is chopped off how can it be restored? But it does just add some color just like tuning the EQ slightly.


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## Redcarmoose (Sep 18, 2019)

Erfan Elahi said:


> I don't own the TA yet, but from WM1Z difference is subtle indeed but hearable on both DSEE and DC Phase Linearizer, or at least through a brain sync to Sony's sound. But I do enjoy simple Direct Sound sometimes when I don't want to add some color.
> 
> But I do think the upscaling theory of DSEE is ridiculous. What is chopped off how can it be restored? But it does just add some color just like tuning the EQ slightly.



I use the TA primarily for the Sony full-size headphones. But I listen mostly to IEMs so I use the 1Z the most. I primarily go direct then add slight bass with one pair of IEMs. Though in defense the TA has the best imaging! IMO

The TA takes full size Z1R and full size Z7 headphones to a place the 1Z never could. Though somehow the TA is slightly more laid back than the treble boost and bass boost of the 1Z?


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## Erfan Elahi

Redcarmoose said:


> I use the TA primarily for the Sony full-size headphones. But I listen mostly to IEMs so I use the 1Z the most. I primarily go direct then add slight bass with one pair of IEMs. Though in defense the TA has the best imaging! IMO
> 
> The TA takes full size Z1R and full size Z7 headphones to a place the 1Z never could. Though somehow the TA is slightly more laid back than the treble boost and bass boost of the 1Z?


"best imaging" is more tempting 

Actually for the moment I am considering the TA to pair only with my IEMs and Sony as I already have 4.4 cables. It is just for curiosity even minor 3 - 5% improvement will be enough for me to grab the TA. *But is it good enough to pair IEMs for the impedance factors? *(please excuse my silly question, really a novice technically on audio gears!)

Will carry the 1z on the walk, but an additional one hour musical pleasure at home. Later I will get a headphone may be the Z1R to fully utilize the TA.


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## Redcarmoose (Sep 18, 2019)

Erfan Elahi said:


> "best imaging" is more tempting
> 
> Actually for the moment I am considering the TA to pair only with my IEMs and Sony as I already have 4.4 cables. It is just for curiosity even minor 3 - 5% improvement will be enough for me to grab the TA. *But is it good enough to pair IEMs for the impedance factors? *(please excuse my silly question, really a novice technically on audio gears!)
> 
> Will carry the 1z on the walk, but an additional one hour musical pleasure at home. Later I will get a headphone may be the Z1R to fully utilize the TA.



It’s a spectacular IEM amplifier with some music and IEMs..........and it IS maybe a small percent better at times? I mean it’s a whole different amplifier made by the TA wing of Sony. The Signature Series is designed by completely different people and the two (1Z/TA) sound different. Any improvement is really really small, and I would guess depending on the combination of gear....and that it would depend on the sound signature goals and preferences? But I fell under the impression the TA was made for the MDR-Z1R and Z7 full-size headphones? Plugging the full size headphones into the DAPs just goes so far? I would suggest listening to it somehow first if IEMs are your end goal. There is always the chance it could be 5%-10% in the wrong direction.

The other thing to seriously take into account is the results from the last firmware update. Meaning the 1Z was just updated from 3.01 to 3.02. The IER-Z1R did have a special character with the TA, before. And.....it was debated which was the better system for the IER-Z1R...before.

But now maybe many would agree the 3.02 is taking the IER-Z1R combination to a new and modern Sony House Sound apex. The bass is way different now. The 1Z and the IER-Z1R was maybe clunky and thick with the 3.01 software.....now it’s a whole new world. Big soundstage, fast tight bass and different imaging, maybe better than the TA.

So it’s strange and it could be the new toy effect, it’s like this firmware made the 1Z a different DAP? So there is that loss of objectivity at this point, though I’m pretty sure my ideas are going to stick.


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## Redcarmoose (Sep 18, 2019)

Erfan Elahi said:


> "best imaging" is more tempting
> 
> Actually for the moment I am considering the TA to pair only with my IEMs and Sony as I already have 4.4 cables. It is just for curiosity even minor 3 - 5% improvement will be enough for me to grab the TA. *But is it good enough to pair IEMs for the impedance factors? *(please excuse my silly question, really a novice technically on audio gears!)
> 
> Will carry the 1z on the walk, but an additional one hour musical pleasure at home. Later I will get a headphone may be the Z1R to fully utilize the TA.



The TA is a wonderful amp. All the functionality.....and that it’s so simple. Having the inputs and outputs. Having the low gain and high gain option. The fact that it’s real quite and has a nice set of slow volume increases lets it be a great IEM amp. Though it’s probably stuff like amplifier character and personality which makes decisions for us. And with that said, both the 1Z and TA are both warm and laid back. Though the treble boost and bass boost V signature brings the 1Z up front slightly? You start to forget how warm this gear is if you listen to your IEMs from a flat Apple product then switch back.


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## tradyblix (Sep 18, 2019)

Yeah, its definately warm. I have a Hugo2 as well which does not have a warm amp and although it has a ton of power it really makes me appreciate the TA’s amp. Thats part of the character of this amp tho, it adds a pleasant warmth and laidbackness, esp with the DC Phase linearizer on. 

In my opinion all amp’s filters *should* be subtle. You have parametric eq and other effects in software like audirvana if you wanna go nuts.

By way of comparison the hugo2’s filters and processing effects are similarly subtle. They all give you a small amount of control over the final sound for tweaking.

And they certainly do make a difference, but you might need to train your ear, you might need better headphones or source in order to hear them. They are not ‘nothing’ tho. It took me a while to appreciate what they all do.

Personally to me I like DSD remastering. I think its more fluid with it on. Each person should feel free to do whats best for them. Some people may prefer a pure PCM chain. You should definately test things tho.

For example, I listen to alot of music that contains female vocalists. So I use the female vocal filter. If the vocals are less prominent, I use standard. With classical, I’d use strings. I might use percussion with electronic music. When using the hugo2 as a dac and the TA as an amp, I like to resample the analog in as DSD. I can experiment with crossfeed, ‘warm’ and dsee stuff all together and its all complementary.

To me thats what good headphone amp and dacs should do. Be subtle, not hit over the head with echo chamber dsp like on a 300 dollar yamaha reciever with room mode....


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## FourT6and2

rosci said:


> For example, I listen to alot of music that contains female vocalists. So I use the female vocal filter. If the vocals are less prominent, I use standard. With classical, I’d use strings. I might use percussion with electronic music. When using the hugo2 as a dac and the TA as an amp, I like to resample the analog in as DSD. I can experiment with crossfeed, ‘warm’ and dsee stuff all together and its all complementary.



And you hear a difference between all the presets? Because I literally here zero difference. Not even a subtle change.


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## FourT6and2 (Sep 19, 2019)

Sennheiser HDV 820 arrived today. Sorry to all the Sony fans, but the sound quality is better for the music I listen to. The low end is punchier and snappier. Drums have authority. In comparison I can see how people say the Sony has a soft and warm vibe. The Sony has more features, but I gotta go with what sounds better for my setup.


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## tradyblix

Well, considering you cant tell the difference between DSD and PCM, or any of the DSEE modes or features, then I am not so surprised you’d chose a delta sigma Sabre dac over a custom FPGA 

You gotta do whats best for you tho. See ya !


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## FourT6and2 (Sep 20, 2019)

tradyblix said:


> Well, considering you cant tell the difference between DSD and PCM, or any of the DSEE modes or features, then I am not so surprised you’d chose a delta sigma Sabre dac over a custom FPGA
> 
> You gotta do whats best for you tho. See ya !



No idea what any of those words mean. But yeah, I definitely prefer the Sennheiser's sound over the Sony's, regardless of what acronyms are stuffed inside either one.


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## nc8000

FourT6and2 said:


> No idea what any of those words mean. But yeah, I definitely prefer the Sennheiser's sound over the Sony's, regardless of what acronyms are stuffed inside either one.



And that’s really all that matters. Enjoy


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## FourT6and2

On a related note, I've got one of these available if somebody's looking for one at a discount.


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## Jackotman

Hi
which headphone and source you are using?



FourT6and2 said:


> Sennheiser HDV 820 arrived today. Sorry to all the Sony fans, but the sound quality is better for the music I listen to. The low end is punchier and snappier. Drums have authority. In comparison I can see how people say the Sony has a soft and warm vibe. The Sony has more features, but I gotta go with what sounds better for my setup.


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## tradyblix (Sep 20, 2019)

FourT6and2 said:


> No idea what any of those words mean.



No surprise there. And yes the Sony is a warm and soft dac and amp. It's great for headphones like the Utopia for example which can be sharp with cleaner or sharper sounding dacs.

Some people like that. That's why tube amps are so popular. They are technically worse than SS amps in terms of distortion, noise floor etc but some people prefer their sound because they find it pleasing.

In fact, that's the entire reason behind the Sony's  DC Phase Linearizer.

Also, if you want to sell stuff, you might want to post here: https://www.head-fi.org/forums/amplification-for-sale-trade.6551/


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## antoramp

Hellraiser86 said:


> In comparison to the TA definitely in every direction (more focused to the width). But that does not mean the ADI has a small Soundstage. It is more like my Hugo 2 in that regard.


Hi! In your opinion, in the end, which is better, the Sony TA or the RME ADI-2?  thank you! Because I'm thinking of buying one of these 2 dacs.


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## FourT6and2 (Oct 10, 2019)

antoramp said:


> Hi! In your opinion, in the end, which is better, the Sony TA or the RME ADI-2?  thank you! Because I'm thinking of buying one of these 2 dacs.



The RME seems to be lightyears ahead of the Sony as far as a pure DAC goes. You've got way more control and functionality with the RME. That said, you'll probably spend a lot of time tweaking and messing with all the infinite settings.


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## antoramp

FourT6and2 said:


> The RME seems to be lightyears ahead of the Sony as far as a pure DAC goes. You've got way more control and functionality with the RME. That said, you'll probably spend a lot of time tweaking and messing with all the infinite settings.


Thank you for the fast response  
I see that there are a lot of possibile tunings in the RME and it’s obviously a good thing and it’s one of the pros of this Dac in my opinion! But my question is also about musicality and imaging. I’m asking to this forum because I can’t make an audition of both the Dacs. Thank you for every reply


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## Hellraiser86

There are many things to compare and lots of differences in terms of usability, tuning ins and outs etc... For that just take what you need.

Soundwise I will just comment the differences not the individual qualities:
RMEs ADI is cleaner, more open (from mids to highs) and dynamic sounding from the internal headphone amp. That is why I use it for mastering.
The Sony on the other hand has more focus from the lows to mids. Soundstage is also bigger in width, depth and hight on the TA. That is also the reason why I prefer the Sony for private/fun listening.

These often used terms would typically describe them:
RME is more on the analytical side (compared to Sony; there are still way more analytical sounding ones out there).
Sony is more on the laidback side (not only compared to the RME; it kind of sounds more analogue).

I hope this kind a helps


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## tradyblix (Oct 10, 2019)

FourT6and2 said:


> The RME seems to be lightyears ahead of the Sony as far as a pure DAC goes. You've got way more control and functionality with the RME. That said, you'll probably spend a lot of time tweaking and messing with all the infinite settings.





antoramp said:


> Thank you for the fast response



Don't listen to this guy, he does not know what he's talking about.

He was saying the other day in the empyrean thread that he couldn't hear the difference between a laptop sub 5 dollar/unit dac chip and a dragonfly cobalt.

Please be careful on the forums.


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## antoramp (Oct 10, 2019)

Hellraiser86 said:


> There are many things to compare and lots of differences in terms of usability, tuning ins and outs etc... For that just take what you need.
> 
> Soundwise I will just comment the differences not the individual qualities:
> RMEs ADI is cleaner, more open (from mids to highs) and dynamic sounding from the internal headphone amp. That is why I use it for mastering.
> ...



this is what i was looking for! Thank you so much! Really! You helped me a lot  Only one last thing: Talking about imaging and detail ( in other words, the ability to hear the most possible from a hi-res music file ) do you think that these dacs are more or less on par or, maybe, one is superior to the other?


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## antoramp

tradyblix said:


> Don't listen to this guy, he does not know what he's talking about.
> 
> He was saying the other day in the empyrean thread that he couldn't hear the difference between a laptop sub 5 dollar/unit dac chip and a dragonfly cobalt.
> 
> Please be careful on the forums.


Ok thanks!


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## FourT6and2

tradyblix said:


> Don't listen to this guy, he does not know what he's talking about.
> 
> He was saying the other day in the empyrean thread that he couldn't hear the difference between a laptop sub 5 dollar/unit dac chip and a dragonfly cobalt.
> 
> Please be careful on the forums.



Yeah my ears are broken obviously.


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## tradyblix (Oct 10, 2019)

Well, instead of giving a thoughtful response like Hellraiser86 did, which actually explained the differences in sound, you said something that was kind of not really true, and in any event wasn't particularly helpful.

I'm just calling it like I see it, the other person can make an informed decision will all the information at hand.

On top of that I've seen alot of crazy stuff from you. "No idea what any of those words mean." kind of sums up your knowledge about dacs IMO.

I would not be surprised if you've never owned a TA-ZH1ES or any of the dacs under discussion long enough to make an informed opinion about them, instead using non-sequiturs like "it's light years behind".

I can tell you that while I prefer the Hugo2's Dac unit to the TA-ZH1ES, it's still a very refined Dac that holds it's own. And Chord has some of the best Dacs in the industry. The RME Unit under discussion is also a top of the line dac.


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## FourT6and2 (Oct 10, 2019)

tradyblix said:


> Well, instead of giving a thoughtful response like Hellraiser86 did, which actually explained the differences in sound, you said something that was kind of not really true, and in any event wasn't particularly helpful.



Get lost. I'm not interested in arguing about nonsense with you. All you're doing is following me around trying to start a fight like a kid on a playground. You seem like you don't know how to interact with people. Welcome to my ignore list.


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## tradyblix

I'm not following you at all my friend. You're posting crap in threads that I am subscribed to, and I'm just warning people to take what you say with a grain of salt, because alot of it is wrong.

I actually own the equipment in the threads we're in.


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## Hellraiser86 (Oct 10, 2019)

antoramp said:


> this is what i was looking for! Thank you so much! Really! You helped me a lot  Only one last thing: Talking about imaging and detail ( in other words, the ability to hear the most possible from a hi-res music file ) do you think that these dacs are more or less on par or, maybe, one is superior to the other?


Glad to hear that I could help 

I personally would go for the Sony in that case. The Ta scales a tiny bit better with higher quality files. I do not know why but if I trust my ears it is because of the soundstage which gives some elements more space to shine. But that is not a big jump from the RME. The biggest is really the personal taste.

Do you like the sound of your WM1A? I had it, too. The TA has a lot in comon soundwise (just everything better of course). The tonal balance is right between the 1A and the 1Z. So I guess you could like this sound more. But if you found the 1A somehow lacking (f.e. dynamics) maybe the RME is the better choice. On the other hand you could use the 1A as a transport with the beautiful sony dock to the ta and remote everything with the sony remote . Thats just the „SONY-THING“


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## Hellraiser86

tradyblix said:


> Well, instead of giving a thoughtful response like Hellraiser86 did, which actually explained the differences in sound, you said something that was kind of not really true, and in any event wasn't particularly helpful.
> 
> I'm just calling it like I see it, the other person can make an informed decision will all the information at hand.
> 
> ...


If just the headphone out did not hiss that much with my Solaris 
The TA is way more silent (to be fair both on unbalanced - the Sony hisses a tiny bit in balanced)

But generally I also prefer the Hugo2. It is like a child from RME and Sony


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## tradyblix

Another thing to mention while I'm here about the TA is that although it resamples all analog input (unfortunately) you can control how this is done (PCM at different rates, DSD, etc) and it sounds really really good (to me). Putting a Hugo2 as DAC and using the DA amp stage of the Tazzy is pretty sweet, even if it's not the cleanest signal chain ever. This way you can stay PCM through the DAC phase and sample the analog as DSD at the end. And combing another Dac's features with the TA is pretty interesting as well, lot's of control !

So you can probably rest easy should you want to experiment with standalone dacs later on.


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## Hellraiser86

tradyblix said:


> Another thing to mention while I'm here about the TA is that although it resamples all analog input (unfortunately) you can control how this is done (PCM at different rates, DSD, etc) and it sounds really really good (to me). Putting a Hugo2 as DAC and using the DA amp stage of the Tazzy is pretty sweet, even if it's not the cleanest signal chain ever. This way you can stay PCM through the DAC phase and sample the analog as DSD at the end. And combing another Dac's features with the TA is pretty interesting as well, lot's of control !
> 
> So you can probably rest easy should you want to experiment with standalone dacs later on.


And here we are again. Just another thing I must try now


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## tradyblix

Hellraiser86 said:


> But generally I also prefer the Hugo2. It is like a child from RME and Sony



It takes a bit of geting used to, especially if you like a really warm amp. If I knew I was going to like it's DAC as much as I do, I might have gotten a Qutest instead. 

But this way I can move it between rooms and either link it up or use it standalone.


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## Hellraiser86

tradyblix said:


> It takes a bit of geting used to, especially if you like a really warm amp. If I knew I was going to like it's DAC as much as I do, I might have gotten a Qutest instead.
> 
> But this way I can move it between rooms and either link it up or use it standalone.


Exactly the same here . I am often away from home and the hugo is the perfect solution for having such a soundquality on the go (mostly in hotel or at my girls place - it is still to bulky for my mobile use where I now have the DF Cobalt).


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## antoramp

Hellraiser86 said:


> Glad to hear that I could help
> 
> I personally would go for the Sony in that case. The Ta scales a tiny bit better with higher quality files. I do not know why but if I trust my ears it is because of the soundstage which gives some elements more space to shine. But that is not a big jump from the RME. The biggest is really the personal taste.
> 
> Do you like the sound of your WM1A? I had it, too. The TA has a lot in comon soundwise (just everything better of course). The tonal balance is right between the 1A and the 1Z. So I guess you could like this sound more. But if you found the 1A somehow lacking (f.e. dynamics) maybe the RME is the better choice. On the other hand you could use the 1A as a transport with the beautiful sony dock to the ta and remote everything with the sony remote . Thats just the „SONY-THING“



Yes, I love the sound of the WM1A. I prefer laidback sound instead of analitical one. So I think I’ll go for the Sony Ta. Many thanks for your reply 
My only question is... is Sony ready to release a new upgraded version of the TA or something like that? ( because I see that the TA now turned 3 years old... )


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## nc8000

antoramp said:


> Yes, I love the sound of the WM1A. I prefer laidback sound instead of analitical one. So I think I’ll go for the Sony Ta. Many thanks for your reply
> My only question is... is Sony ready to release a new upgraded version of the TA or something like that? ( because I see that the TA now turned 3 years old... )



Nothing has been announced


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## Sp12er3

antoramp said:


> Yes, I love the sound of the WM1A. I prefer laidback sound instead of analitical one. So I think I’ll go for the Sony Ta. Many thanks for your reply
> My only question is... is Sony ready to release a new upgraded version of the TA or something like that? ( because I see that the TA now turned 3 years old... )


Sony usually took their time for uodating flagship , esp on an ES model like the TA, the last time it was an ES Home Receiver in 2017.


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## Audiofiend1

would getting the Sony TA-ZH1ES be an upgrade over my Oppo HA-1?? I found a deal on one but if i got it then i will have to sell my HA-1 and i don't know much about the sony so any thoughts on what is a better amp/dac combo?


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## antoramp

Is there also a test of this Dac/Amp about the THD, THD+N, SINAD, SNR or something like that? Because I didn't find any of this measurements on the internet.... I'm seriously thinking of buying it but having also this kind of informations could be useful! 
Many thanks


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## purk

Audiofiend1 said:


> would getting the Sony TA-ZH1ES be an upgrade over my Oppo HA-1?? I found a deal on one but if i got it then i will have to sell my HA-1 and i don't know much about the sony so any thoughts on what is a better amp/dac combo?



Yes, I would get ZH1ES over the HA-1.  The HA-1 can be a little harsh from time with less depth in the soundstage department.  The ZH1ES is one smooth sounding analog player.  Just it is a little soft around the edge compared to some better amplifiers out there.  Better amps also able to display greater sense of dynamics compared to ZH1ES.


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## Audiofiend1

purk said:


> Yes, I would get ZH1ES over the HA-1.  The HA-1 can be a little harsh from time with less depth in the soundstage department.  The ZH1ES is one smooth sounding analog player.  Just it is a little soft around the edge compared to some better amplifiers out there.  Better amps also able to display greater sense of dynamics compared to ZH1ES.


Does the ZH1ES get up there in the volume range though? i like to listen to my music loud and am concerned it might not have enough power to say drive a HE-6 comfortably?


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## nc8000 (Oct 21, 2019)

Audiofiend1 said:


> Does the ZH1ES get up there in the volume range though? i like to listen to my music loud and am concerned it might not have enough power to say drive a HE-6 comfortably?



It will be listenable but it won’t drive the HE-6 to their best


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## Hellraiser86

Audiofiend1 said:


> Does the ZH1ES get up there in the volume range though? i like to listen to my music loud and am concerned it might not have enough power to say drive a HE-6 comfortably?


Both DAC/AMPs are not the best solution for this task (I know the Oppo has more power but it isn’t enough for such a demanding can) If driving this headphone is your prior intention, then spend the money in a dedicated headphone amplifier like a Violectric HPA-V281 or something in that class (don’t know the price you can get the TA but in Germany it’s about the same price as the Violectric).


----------



## Audiofiend1

Hellraiser86 said:


> Both DAC/AMPs are not the best solution for this task (I know the Oppo has more power but it isn’t enough for such a demanding can) If driving this headphone is your prior intention, then spend the money in a dedicated headphone amplifier like a Violectric HPA-V281 or something in that class (don’t know the price you can get the TA but in Germany it’s about the same price as the Violectric).


Oh i'm surprised i thought the ZH1ES for sure had a more powerful amp then the Oppo


----------



## Hellraiser86

Audiofiend1 said:


> Oh i'm surprised i thought the ZH1ES for sure had a more powerful amp then the Oppo


The Oppo has 2.000mw at 32 Ohm and the Sony 2.400mw. Sorry I just remembered the single output from the Sony homepage which was 1.200 (and forgot the + sign )
But 400mw are still not much for a HE-6


----------



## Audiofiend1

Hellraiser86 said:


> The Oppo has 2.000mw at 32 Ohm and the Sony 2.400mw. Sorry I just remembered the single output from the Sony homepage which was 1.200 (and forgot the + sign )
> But 400mw are still not much for a HE-6


Yes this is what i thought too, it is nice to have that extra 400mw but yes it might struggle to make the HE-6 sound right. they do sound okay out of my Oppo but it's pretty much at max on the volume dial on high gain with very little headroom left. I suppose the Sony would be better but just.


----------



## Hellraiser86

Audiofiend1 said:


> Yes this is what i thought too, it is nice to have that extra 400mw but yes it might struggle to make the HE-6 sound right. they do sound okay out of my Oppo but it's pretty much at max on the volume dial on high gain with very little headroom left. I suppose the Sony would be better but just.


If you like the more bright sound (in comparison to TA) just upgrade the Amp. A Cayin iHA-6 has definitely the power to drive them and has a great price tag (but on the other hand there are some people who claim you need a speaker amp)


----------



## Audiofiend1

Hellraiser86 said:


> If you like the more bright sound (in comparison to TA) just upgrade the Amp. A Cayin iHA-6 has definitely the power to drive them and has a great price tag (but on the other hand there are some people who claim you need a speaker amp)


The reason i'm considering the TA is because i don't like the bright and clinical sound of the Oppo too much. I heard the TA is much warmer which is why i am considering


----------



## Hellraiser86

Audiofiend1 said:


> The reason i'm considering the TA is because i don't like the bright and clinical sound of the Oppo too much. I heard the TA is much warmer which is why i am considering


In that case the TA is quite on the other end of the spectrum. So maybe it could sound a bit too relaxed for you (that’s just something to consider). Don’t know your budget but Hugo 2 would be a good option too


----------



## Damz87

Hellraiser86 said:


> In that case the TA is quite on the other end of the spectrum. So maybe it could sound a bit too relaxed for you (that’s just something to consider). Don’t know your budget but Hugo 2 would be a good option too



I see that you’re using the AQ jitterbug with your TA. Did you notice much of a difference with it? I currently have AQ carbon cable from my TA direct to my PC and considering adding in a jitterbug.


----------



## antoramp

Ended up ordening this Sony. I was overthinking about measurements and al the things that comes around ( i was also considering the Matrix Sabre Pro and the Rme Adi-2 because of their specs ). But, in the end I decided to buy the Sony because of its focus on the lower spectrum ( My ears are very sensitive to the highs ) and because I’ve found it on Amazon on sale ( not too much, but stil 5% less than usual retail price ). I’ll share my impression when it arrives!
Many thanks to hellraiser86 for his comparison!


----------



## Hellraiser86

antoramp said:


> Ended up ordening this Sony. I was overthinking about measurements and al the things that comes around ( i was also considering the Matrix Sabre Pro and the Rme Adi-2 because of their specs ). But, in the end I decided to buy the Sony because of its focus on the lower spectrum ( My ears are very sensitive to the highs ) and because I’ve found it on Amazon on sale ( not too much, but stil 5% less than usual retail price ). I’ll share my impression when it arrives!
> Many thanks to hellraiser86 for his comparison!


Enjoy it  and I am looking forward for your impressions


----------



## Hellraiser86 (Oct 21, 2019)

Damz87 said:


> I see that you’re using the AQ jitterbug with your TA. Did you notice much of a difference with it? I currently have AQ carbon cable from my TA direct to my PC and considering adding in a jitterbug.


It depends on the source I am using. For example if I connect it with my MacBook Pro I definitely hear an improvement (really funny considering that I didn’t believe in such things before^^). If I am using my iPad Pro the difference is not that noticeable.


----------



## Damz87

Thanks for the info!


----------



## antoramp

Hellraiser86 said:


> Enjoy it  and I am looking forward for your impressions


 
It should arrive in mid November... Do you think that it needs also some time for burning in the components?


----------



## Hellraiser86

antoramp said:


> It should arrive in mid November... Do you think that it needs also some time for burning in the components?


The TA definitely improves over time. I can’t remember how long it took with mine, but I already liked it straight out of the box


----------



## antoramp

Hellraiser86 said:


> The TA definitely improves over time. I can’t remember how long it took with mine, but I already liked it straight out of the box


Ok, Maybe I’ll let him burn in for about a week... ( 200hr like the WM1A )


----------



## rosci

Damz87 said:


> I see that you’re using the AQ jitterbug with your TA. Did you notice much of a difference with it? I currently have AQ carbon cable from my TA direct to my PC and considering adding in a jitterbug.


i have bought both the aq jitterbug and the ifi usb purifier during a moment of weakness (you know... audiophilia nervosa).

i left the jitterbug in my system because it doesn't hurt to have it in there.
but in all honesty... i can't claim that i am able to hear any difference.

and i don't think this is because my hearing is impaired, i definitely can hear differences when swapping headphone cables and analog interconnects for instance. but differences in usb cabling and usb purification on the tazzy...different story imo.

a thing to consider: sony has gone to great lengths when it comes to jitter rejection on their s-master products. (in previous iterations of their s-master architecture they called this their "clean data cycle" which sports an attosecond clock for re-clocking the signal.) the tazzy is built around the s-master hx architecture and a chassis that is supposed to suppress physical interference with the internal timing of the clock through vibration.

so, i believe jitter is not an issue. what other reasons could there be to add usb purification? introduction of noise to the system? i can't hear any improvement in that department either.

i don't think that money spent on usb purification is money spent well. just my humble opinion.

BTW i also found this an interesting read:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/08/musings-demo-why-bits-are-bits-lets-not.html


----------



## quodjo105

Is the Questyle cma twelve a better option if i was looking for something slightly less warm to pair with Utopia ?. Will appreciate other recommendations too


----------



## Hellraiser86

rosci said:


> i have bought both the aq jitterbug and the ifi usb purifier during a moment of weakness (you know... audiophilia nervosa).
> 
> i left the jitterbug in my system because it doesn't hurt to have it in there.
> but in all honesty... i can't claim that i am able to hear any difference.
> ...



Have you compared the USB with the optical input?
Initially I was not that sure about Jitterbugs and others. Then my USB cable broke and I was forced to use my toslink. I have heard a slightly „cleaner“ sound out of it. That made me curious about the reason for this.
I don’t know if my brain plays with me or if someone can or can not hear it. The important part is: if you can benefit from these upgrades, everything is fine 
(otherwise get rid of it)

PS: considering the price tag of a Jitterbug or Purifier everyone should try it for themselves (if interested in this kind of stuff) In relation to the TA just peanuts.


----------



## antoramp

In the end I had to cancel the order because the estimated shipping date shifted to the end of december ( or even after )... too much in my opinion ( that’s my fault )...


----------



## Hellraiser86

antoramp said:


> In the end I had to cancel the order because the estimated shipping date shifted to the end of december ( or even after )... too much in my opinion ( that’s my fault )...


Oh no... that is bad. 
What is your plan now?


----------



## antoramp

Hellraiser86 said:


> Oh no... that is bad.
> What is your plan now?


I've ordered a Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro... I've read some good reviews about it... If it happens that I don't like the sound because it's too sabre-like ( this Matrix unit shoudn't, but who knows... ) I'll eventually buy the Rme ( Adi-2 Dac or the Pro FS ) or the Holo Spring Level 1.
Also, in these days, I've read some not-so-positive reviews about the pre-amp section of the Sony... This is quite important for me because I want to use the dac also for my schiit Lyr 3 and, maybe in the future, for my speakers setup....


----------



## Hellraiser86

antoramp said:


> I've ordered a Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro... I've read some good reviews about it... If it happens that I don't like the sound because it's too sabre-like ( this Matrix unit shoudn't, but who knows... ) I'll eventually buy the Rme ( Adi-2 Dac or the Pro FS ) or the Holo Spring Level 1.
> Also, in these days, I've read some not-so-positive reviews about the pre-amp section of the Sony... This is quite important for me because I want to use the dac also for my schiit Lyr 3 and, maybe in the future, for my speakers setup....


The Matrix is one of the new „secret“ diamonds. I also read some very good reviews.
Hope you like it 

Something to the RME: Soundwise it makes no difference between pro and dac. The only advantage is you can use balanced with the pro (I never had the FS for myself but I heard it a/b at my friends studio and the difference was, if any, very small)


----------



## antoramp

Hellraiser86 said:


> The Matrix is one of the new „secret“ diamonds. I also read some very good reviews.
> Hope you like it
> 
> Something to the RME: Soundwise it makes no difference between pro and dac. The only advantage is you can use balanced with the pro (I never had the FS for myself but I heard it a/b at my friends studio and the difference was, if any, very small)



Thank you  About the Rme I'm in the middle: If a part of me loves to have a balanced headphone out and balanced analog outputs, the other loves as much the possibility to have an IEM Output ( Adi-2 Dac )... 
Talking about the FS or the not-FS version it's only a question of convenience: the price on amazon of the non-FS version is the same as the FS version on Thonmann... so I would pick up the newest one ( FS )


----------



## quodjo105

Can anyone help with a link to a 4 pin xlr female to 1/4 jack adapter ?..


----------



## utopic

Hi, I've searched high and low for this and haven't able to find a definitive, clear answer: 

If I connect, at the same time, headphones and powered speakers to the Sony, can I simply switch between the two outputs (say, using the remote)  and only one will be active? Or will connecting headphones mute the speakers (as on some other DAC/amp models).

Basically, I want to leave my headphones connected all the time and still be able to listen to speakers.

Thanks a bunch!


----------



## Blommen

utopic said:


> Hi, I've searched high and low for this and haven't able to find a definitive, clear answer:
> 
> If I connect, at the same time, headphones and powered speakers to the Sony, can I simply switch between the two outputs (say, using the remote)  and only one will be active? Or will connecting headphones mute the speakers (as on some other DAC/amp models).
> 
> ...



You can change outputs on the remote.


----------



## Lemieux66

utopic said:


> Hi, I've searched high and low for this and haven't able to find a definitive, clear answer:
> 
> If I connect, at the same time, headphones and powered speakers to the Sony, can I simply switch between the two outputs (say, using the remote)  and only one will be active? Or will connecting headphones mute the speakers (as on some other DAC/amp models).
> 
> ...



Yes, you can leave headphones plugged in whilst using an amp or powered speakers. I had my Z1R plugged in whilst using my amp/speakers.


----------



## uzku

Hi,

I have a question regarding the comparisson between the TA-ZH1ES and the combination of TA-A1ES + WM-NW1A.  I currently own the TA-A1ES and I combine it with the walkman NW1A.  I am wondering if buying the TA-ZH1ES is actually an improvement.  I see that the Walkman has more DSPs than the ZH1ES and it could be that the pure analog amplifier (TA-A1ES) actually sounds better than the ZH1ES.  Could someone give me some hints on this comparisson?

I also own the Kimber cable for my Z1R, which is a good reason to get the ZH1ES given its 4.4mm output,,, but maybe that´s not worth investing so much.

Thanks!


----------



## Lookout57

The TA will do a much better job driving the Z1R due to it having a more powerful amplifier.


----------



## uzku

Thanks for your answer, but what TA are you refering to, the TA-A1ES or the TA-ZH1ES, I´m trying to compare 2 TA models basically?

The TA A1ES is a class A amplifier, with the same price tag as the TA ZH1ES.

I could imagine that since the ZH1ES and the Z1R were kinda developed together, makes sense, this combo outpeforms the other.

Thanks!


----------



## tradyblix

They basically serve different market segments. One is a headphone amp designed to sit on a desk and be used for headphone listening. It has features for headphone listening like balanced outputs of every kind. 

The other is designed as more of a rack based amplifier for driving speakers and also, headphones. 

Since they are both Sony elevated standard I’m sure they are both great for slightly different applications. So it depends on your needs. 

The A also doesn’t seem to have the dual DA amp circuitry and DSD remastering features.

Perhaps someone who has owned both can talk about sound quality differences but there are probably few who can or directly compare, perhaps a retailer ?


----------



## purk

uzku said:


> Thanks for your answer, but what TA are you refering to, the TA-A1ES or the TA-ZH1ES, I´m trying to compare 2 TA models basically?
> 
> The TA A1ES is a class A amplifier, with the same price tag as the TA ZH1ES.
> 
> ...



I had the A1ES before and it is a fabulous integrated amp with a really good sounding onboard headphones module.  I say that the TA-ZH1ES is definitely better but not by significant amount.  Can you demo the ZH1ES to compare with the A1ES?


----------



## Pamelaattiz

Thanks Len,
Youve made an interesting point.
Looks like I am toppling off fence and getting the Boss head.
About 18 months ago I had the 100 combo but my mate bought it off me,
The Boss head seems best for me.
Carl.


----------



## Frank Mantek (Nov 20, 2019)

Usage question. I am looking to upgrade my listening experience in my home office. Currently use the Z1R from Sony and drive them with an AK SE100 portable dac/amp. I am looking at buying a headphone amp, but most of them come with their own build in DAC, which is ok. But what's the input to the DAC beside a PC so that it makes sense? Taking the SE100 and piping the line out into the TA so that it splits the analog back into digital seems wrong.

I assume the DAC from the TA is better than the DAC inside the AK SE100. So i want to feed it digital. Is the only real way to use this by either adding a network player, like a cambridge audio CXN to it and use the optical in? Or a PC? (I don't see a way to get a digital out directly from the AK SE100).

Thanks in advance

Frank


----------



## Lookout57

Since it doesn't look like the AK SE100 can work as a transport and output via USB you are stuck using analog out to the TA.


----------



## nc8000

Frank Mantek said:


> Usage question. I am looking to upgrade my listening experience in my home office. Currently use the Z1R from Sony and drive them with an AK SE100 portable dac/amp. I am looking at buying a headphone amp, but most of them come with their own build in DAC, which is ok. But what's the input to the DAC beside a PC so that it makes sense? Taking the SE100 and piping the line out into the TA so that it splits the analog back into digital seems wrong.
> 
> I assume the DAC from the TA is better than the DAC inside the AK SE100. So i want to feed it digital. Is the only real way to use this by either adding a network player, like a cambridge audio CXN to it and use the optical in? Or a PC? (I don't see a way to get a digital out directly from the AK SE100).
> 
> ...



I use an Auralic Aries Mini through usb as my source for the TA and also optical from my tv


----------



## Frank Mantek

nc8000 said:


> I use an Auralic Aries Mini through usb as my source for the TA and also optical from my tv



Curious. With the Cambridge Audio CXN i have, WiFi is pretty much unreliable and not an option (works great wired). How is the Auralic performing with DSD or 192/24 files using WiFi?

Tia

Frank


----------



## nc8000

Frank Mantek said:


> Curious. With the Cambridge Audio CXN i have, WiFi is pretty much unreliable and not an option (works great wired). How is the Auralic performing with DSD or 192/24 files using WiFi?
> 
> Tia
> 
> Frank



It works fine. Wifi is only used to connect to an iOS device used for the gui, music is transferred over usb from the build in 2TB ssd to the TA. It also worked fine for streaming Tidal when I had a subscription


----------



## kingy

Hello, I've connected the TA DAC to the PC via USB interface, and while I can change the sample rate in the Windows sound settings and it displays correctly on the DAC, the output on the DAC display would always show the sample rate of PCM352.8kHz/32 regardless of the input settings. Is it normal? If it is, then I suppose that the Sony DAC upsales any PCM input to PCM352.8kHz/32?


----------



## nc8000

kingy said:


> Hello, I've connected the TA DAC to the PC via USB interface, and while I can change the sample rate in the Windows sound settings and it displays correctly on the DAC, the output on the DAC display would always show the sample rate of PCM352.8kHz/32 regardless of the input settings. Is it normal? If it is, then I suppose that the Sony DAC upsales any PCM input to PCM352.8kHz/32?



It does not. Connected via usb to my Auralic Aries Mini the Sony display shows exactly what the files played are. Analog input on the other hand is converted to digital on input


----------



## Jacob ISR

kingy said:


> Hello, I've connected the TA DAC to the PC via USB interface, and while I can change the sample rate in the Windows sound settings and it displays correctly on the DAC, the output on the DAC display would always show the sample rate of PCM352.8kHz/32 regardless of the input settings. Is it normal? If it is, then I suppose that the Sony DAC upsales any PCM input to PCM352.8kHz/32?



I think that in your Menu the ALL to DSD is turned on.


----------



## kingy (Nov 24, 2019)

I don't have all to dsd option, but DSEE HX and DSD REMASTERING are both OFF... I can see the two sample rates when I set the DISPLAY option to FORMAT.


----------



## Jacob ISR

ye  i ment the DSD remastering... 
so next thing to check is your PC player software - could it be the one that upscale the format?


----------



## kingy

Jacob ISR said:


> ye  i ment the DSD remastering...
> so next thing to check is your PC player software - could it be the one that upscale the format?


It reads the input correctly, whatever I set in Windows, but the output is always stuck in PCM352.8kHz/32 bit format, like in the image above... What.


----------



## Jacob ISR

wellit looks like i have the same thing

    

have to look at the manual...


----------



## kingy (Nov 24, 2019)

Yeah I can set the DSD like that by enabling the DSD REMASTERING. But PCM is always PCM352.8kHz/32 bit... Looks like it upscales, right?
Yeah, and also ASIO playback locks the bitrate to 32 bit, even if the source and windows audio are set to 16 bit...


----------



## Jacob ISR

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads/W0011087

Check your SW version


----------



## Jacob ISR

try to install the original Sony Driver - i will do the same later at night to chack.

Jacob.


----------



## kingy

The SW is the latest 1.0.3. Haven't yet tried installing the drivers, although they should be exactly the same.


----------



## sarnhelen

Mine also upsamples everything regardless. It receives USB input from a Sonore Ultrarendu controlled by Roon, but no upsampling performed in Roon. I wonder if the default upsampling is specific to the USB port? Does anyone output through another amp (e.g. tube) via the pre out, and does the pre out output the same resolution?


----------



## nc8000

sarnhelen said:


> Mine also upsamples everything regardless. It receives USB input from a Sonore Ultrarendu controlled by Roon, but no upsampling performed in Roon. I wonder if the default upsampling is specific to the USB port? Does anyone output through another amp (e.g. tube) via the pre out, and does the pre out output the same resolution?



Analog input gets converted to dsd


----------



## sarnhelen

Don't know why that's relevant to digital input via USB upsampling automatically to PCM352.8kHz/32.


----------



## kingy

sarnhelen said:


> Don't know why that's relevant to digital input via USB upsampling automatically to PCM352.8kHz/32.


I have no idea either, I just bought the DAC. I suppose that it's the frequency at which the internal processor operates, and unlike the rest of the DACs, that converts say 44.1kHz - to their native sample rate, something like 192kHz, - then back to 44.1kHz, Sony cuts the lag by stopping on its internal clock and outputting just that. I just set Windows to PCM352.8kHz/32 and that's it, unless someone comes up with a solution.
BTW, does this DAC have break-in period?


----------



## Lookout57

It has to be something with the Windows driver. I connect my WM-1A/Z to the PC USB port on the TA and it always shows the sample rate of the file being played unless I turn on DSD Remastering (which I always do).


----------



## sarnhelen

Nope. It isn't. No Windows involved anywhere in my system.


----------



## tradyblix

Have you guys upgraded the firmware to the latest one ?


----------



## nc8000

Lookout57 said:


> It has to be something with the Windows driver. I connect my WM-1A/Z to the PC USB port on the TA and it always shows the sample rate of the file being played unless I turn on DSD Remastering (which I always do).



There is an option in the menu to indicate what should be shown in the display, FORMAT, either input port and file format or file format and what it gets upconverted to ( I wasn't aware of this option). The TA always upconvets to either 32/352, 32/384 or DSD11.2 depending on the DSD Remastering setting and the base clock rate of the file. This in order to have the largest headroom for dsp manipulation, remember everything in the TA happens in the digital domain


----------



## tradyblix

Yup. However, There was a bug in early firmware versions tho that incorrectly displayed or used a wrong rate. In any event its nothing to worry about, you want the oversampling anyway.


----------



## sarnhelen

nc8000 said:


> There is an option in the menu to indicate what should be shown in the display, FORMAT, either input port and file format or file format and what it gets upconverted to ( I wasn't aware of this option). The TA always upconvets to either 32/352, 32/384 or DSD11.2 depending on the DSD Remastering setting and the base clock rate of the file. This in order to have the largest headroom for dsp manipulation, remember everything in the TA happens in the digital domain



The lucid answer!


----------



## tradyblix

Or you know, you could just RTFM


----------



## sarnhelen

You could, and reading a manual is always a pleasure, but you would find no mention of this upsampling. Or can you point to the page where it does so?.


----------



## tradyblix (Nov 24, 2019)

sarnhelen said:


> You could, and reading a manual is always a pleasure, but you would find no mention of this upsampling. Or can you point to the page where it does so?.



Literally took me under 30 seconds.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/res/manuals/4598/45982541M.pdf

Pages 26-29 show how to change the input format.

I generally use DSD remastering because it's one of the main reasons to buy this amp.


----------



## nc8000

sarnhelen said:


> You could, and reading a manual is always a pleasure, but you would find no mention of this upsampling. Or can you point to the page where it does so?.



i don’t see the pcm upsampling in the manual. I think it was mentioned in one of the developer interviews back when it was launched


----------



## sarnhelen

tradyblix said:


> Literally took me under 30 seconds.
> 
> https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/res/manuals/4598/45982541M.pdf
> 
> ...


Don't think that was the question.


----------



## sarnhelen

sarnhelen said:


> Don't think that was the question.


The question in this discussion has been the automatic and undocumented upsampling. Method for upsampling to DSD is documented, obvious, easy and pleasant.


----------



## tradyblix

Okay. perhaps I don't understand what problem you're having then. I tried my best to help, telling you about firmware issues that lead to incorrect sample rates being shown in firmwares less than 1.03 and showing you a link to the manual on how to change the format upsampling in case that was the issue.

Sorry I couldn't help. Have a great week.


----------



## nc8000

tradyblix said:


> Okay. perhaps I don't understand what problem you're having then. I tried my best to help, telling you about firmware issues that lead to incorrect sample rates being shown in firmwares less than 1.03 and showing you a link to the manual on how to change the format upsampling in case that was the issue.
> 
> Sorry I couldn't help. Have a great week.



What is not mentioned in the manual is that pcm signals are automatically upsampled to the maximum pcm format for the given base clock. DSD convertion is mentioned as is analog input conversion


----------



## tradyblix (Nov 24, 2019)

Ah, I see. That's not something that would ever bother me, since that's the kind of behavior that I would want anyway. I may not have noticed since I use software oversampling. But generally these days I only use it as an amp, so I usually use analog input with dsd anyway.

If that's just how the TA-ZH1ES works, then I stand corrected. I definately don't remember it that way tho. edit - just checked - it's how it works.

Is this a problem ? I don't think this is a problem, personally. I usually use DSD resampling. Why would not not want to oversample PCM or even resample to DSD when you have an amp with such rare capabillity ? It sounds better.


----------



## nc8000

tradyblix said:


> Ah, I see. That's not something that would ever bother me, since that's the kind of behavior that I would want anyway. I may not have noticed since I use software oversampling. But generally these days I only use it as an amp, so I usually use analog input with dsd anyway.
> 
> If that's just how the TA-ZH1ES works, then I stand corrected. I definately don't remember it that way tho.



DSD remastering on overrules the pcm upsampling and upsamples/converts to the max DSD format for the given base clock and that is what I have used from the first day so had forgotten all about the pcm upsampling


----------



## tradyblix (Nov 24, 2019)

Yeah, ditto.

Anyway, I see this as a case of much ado about nothing. If you are a purist tho, I guess you gotta take it back. Shrug Emoji.

Bigger question is - what do your EARS tell you ? Forget about the rest. My credo.

If you think it damages the sound and you think you know better than sony's engineering department OR you just are peeved about the fact sony didn't give you control over this.... there's only one solution, because i doubt we're getting a new firmware for it.


----------



## Damz87

I hoped Sony would bring MQA support for Tidal listening but doesn't look like that's going to happen.


----------



## tradyblix

MQA requires paying a company a royalty for a dubious scheme designed to lock hi-def behind a software paywall. That would be totes okay if Sony owned that scheme, but they don't so that's why you'll probably not likely see support. They will only support if if it became a defacto standard, and with Amazon HD gettting in the game that's unlikely. Who know knows what 2025 will look like tho. But the TA-ZH1ES will be old news by then. It's already pretty old now.


----------



## Damz87

Yeah, it’s a shame. Oh well, Tidal HiFi sounds pretty great to me with the TA anyway.


----------



## nc8000 (Nov 25, 2019)

tradyblix said:


> MQA requires paying a company a royalty for a dubious scheme designed to lock hi-def behind a software paywall. That would be totes okay if Sony owned that scheme, but they don't so that's why you'll probably not likely see support. They will only support if if it became a defacto standard, and with Amazon HD gettting in the game that's unlikely. Who know knows what 2025 will look like tho. But the TA-ZH1ES will be old news by then. It's already pretty old now.



Well Sony support the mqa file format on the WM dap’s after one of the fw updates


----------



## tradyblix (Nov 25, 2019)

Yeah thats true but those portable players are in like a totally different market segment. I have one that runs android for example, and its more like an android phone than a true sony device. I think in portable it would be considered unbuyable without that support so they are forced to do it.

Why else is it 2020 and they never supported MQA in hardware on this thing ? They dont want to if they dont have to pay royalties. Its been years now.

I usually use Audirvana to do the “first unfolding” when listening to Tidal, and then that gets DSD upscaled so I really dont find it to be a pressing issue, but it would be nice if we got hardware support since I use Tidal for streaming mainly right now. Who know where the market will go tho with Amazon coming out. MQA might not even be around in 5 years or it might be a defacto standard...Pretty sure Qobuz has shown you dont need mqa to stream hi res files.

Anyway the vast majority of music i listen to doesnt even have a “master” or hi res version so most of the time I’m listening to 16 bit 44.1 flacs which still sound great.


----------



## nc8000

tradyblix said:


> Yeah thats true but those portable players are in like a totally different market segment. I have one that runs android for example, and its more like an android phone than a true sony device. I think in portable it would be considered unbuyable without that support so they are forced to do it.
> 
> Why else is it 2020 and they never supported MQA in hardware on this thing ? They dont want to if they dont have to pay royalties. Its been years now.
> 
> ...



The Sony WM players are not Android but Sony’s own OS. 

MQA hardly existed in the market when the TA and the WM players came out so supporting it from the start was not really a priority. 

They obviously can’t implement mqa in hardware on the TA as that would require them to recall all sold amps and do a physical update on them but they might be able to do a fw update on them as they did on the WM players


----------



## tradyblix (Nov 25, 2019)

I have an NW-A105. It's android powered. It supports MQA for Tidal. That is why I mentioned it. I am sure Sony has some other portables that are non android powered that support it. They have one walkman that is 3,000 dollars (!)

I had this same discussion over a year ago in this same thread. Since then sony hasn't supported it.

I've owned my amp since late 2016 or early 2017... I dont' think they'll suddenly support it 4 years in. last update we got was in march 2017 for it. since then nothing. is the team that designed it even still together ? etc.

When I said in hardware I was talking about a firmware update to the FPGA. The FPGA could easily be updated to support MQA through firmware, one assumes.

What do you think the reason Sony hasn't and seemingly isn't going to support it on this device is then, if it's not that they don't want to pay another company royalties ? Sony has historically been the one to come out with proprietary tech. We might still be using ATRAC right now if some of those had succeeded  

Anyway. I recommend Audirvana in the interim or however long it takes sony to do this, if they ever do. Then you can get the higher bit rate and sampling rate sent out to the TA from MQA. It also has a modern interface, works on both windows and mac, and supports Qobuz and a local music library as well as HDtracks as well. It's a one time purchase of 80 bucks. I think Roon can also do something similar.


----------



## nc8000 (Nov 25, 2019)

tradyblix said:


> I have an NW-A105. It's android powered. It supports MQA for Tidal. That is why I mentioned it. I am sure Sony has some other portables that are non android powered that support it. They have one walkman that is 3,000 dollars (!)
> 
> I had this same discussion over a year ago in this same thread. Since then sony hasn't supported it.
> 
> ...



I have absolutely no idea why they have not come out with a fw update for the TA to support mqa when they did it for the Sony OS WM daps. If the TA is capable of supporting mqa and they have paid the license for the Sony OS I can only speculate that they think it is not  relevant for the owners the TA which would be true for me


----------



## Frank Mantek

Curious: I currently drive my Sony Z1R with an AK SE100, and they sound great. If you have a "mobile" setup like that, how much better (if at all) is the sound coming out of your laptop plus the TA? Is the headphone amp part of the TA noticable better than let's say the headphone part of the SONY NW-WM1Z?


----------



## rosci (Nov 25, 2019)

kingy said:


> Yeah I can set the DSD like that by enabling the DSD REMASTERING. But PCM is always PCM352.8kHz/32 bit... Looks like it upscales, right?
> Yeah, and also ASIO playback locks the bitrate to 32 bit, even if the source and windows audio are set to 16 bit...


i believe this is normal behavior for the tazzy.

remember: it's an actual digital amp.

means it pushes a digital bitstream into a class d amp stage.

it's essentially class d with a quantized time domain. (unlike conventional class d which consumes an analog signal with non-quantized time domain.)

in order for it to generate good quality output it has to upscale to ridiculous digital resolution (moves the quantization noise into a frequency range well outside human hearing) and then pass things through a low pass filter in the end. --> s-master hq

and they run a low-power class a in parallel and combine the signals for error correction in the end. a tazzy idiosyncrasy... one that works very well, at that


----------



## tradyblix (Nov 26, 2019)

Frank Mantek said:


> Curious: I currently drive my Sony Z1R with an AK SE100, and they sound great. If you have a "mobile" setup like that, how much better (if at all) is the sound coming out of your laptop plus the TA? Is the headphone amp part of the TA noticable better than let's say the headphone part of the SONY NW-WM1Z?



I can't speak for the WM1Z. Maybe someone here has both or had a chance to compare ?

Generally tho, my experience is that portables can't provide the same power characteristics as a dedicated amp. weight, size and battery considerations all come into play. That is a flagship device that is very expensive tho so I don't know if it's the best comparision to all DAPs.

My Sony A105 can't reach the same levels of power that the Tazzy can tho. In fact it can't even drive my big headphones. And the Tazzy can't reach the same levels of power as the SE Hugo2, although I think it's by design. I can find enjoyable listening levels with all of these as long as I'm using appropriate headphones but they all sound different.

Different use cases, listening situations, equipment. But all great


----------



## Rurouni

Could I ask if there's any sound sync lag on the earphone outputs when using the usb input from a computer on content such as YouTube etc?


----------



## kingy

Rurouni said:


> Could I ask if there's any sound sync lag on the earphone outputs when using the usb input from a computer on content such as YouTube etc?


Absolutely zero lag in games and youtube via USB connection. Acts like a very fast PCIe sound card.


----------



## Frank Mantek

So i got myself the TA ZH1ES as an early XMas present. And i am comparing the sound with the Z1R coming out from the AKSE100 vs the TA. No comparison. The AK is a great portable player, and i will continue to use it (of course) when i am on the road. But for everyone considering the same kind of "upgrade" for their home listening station, the TA offers so much more detail and music, it's a very satisfying step up.

Frank


----------



## Soundizer

Is there a Sony MDR-Z1R discussion thread still going? The main one was closed.


----------



## nc8000

Soundizer said:


> Is there a Sony MDR-Z1R discussion thread still going? The main one was closed.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-z1r-listening-impressions-only.853330/


----------



## Rurouni

May have an opportunity to purchase the TA-ZH1ES to pair with an IER-Z1R, does the amp do well with IEMs as I couldn't find info on the amp's output impedance online. Would primarily be using the TA to drive the IER-Z1R, and very occasionally a HD580.

Also, even though the amp is approx 3 years old now, how do you guys as current owners feel about its performance, has it matured well over the years versus some of the new market offerings? Thanks!


----------



## Damz87

Rurouni said:


> May have an opportunity to purchase the TA-ZH1ES to pair with an IER-Z1R, does the amp do well with IEMs as I couldn't find info on the amp's output impedance online. Would primarily be using the TA to drive the IER-Z1R, and very occasionally a HD580.
> 
> Also, even though the amp is approx 3 years old now, how do you guys as current owners feel about its performance, has it matured well over the years versus some of the new market offerings? Thanks!



No idea how it compares to other desktop amps in its class, but I really love my TA matched with IER-Z1R. They sound fantastic together.


----------



## nc8000

Rurouni said:


> May have an opportunity to purchase the TA-ZH1ES to pair with an IER-Z1R, does the amp do well with IEMs as I couldn't find info on the amp's output impedance online. Would primarily be using the TA to drive the IER-Z1R, and very occasionally a HD580.
> 
> Also, even though the amp is approx 3 years old now, how do you guys as current owners feel about its performance, has it matured well over the years versus some of the new market offerings? Thanks!



It goes very well with both Z1R and it is so good that I have had no desire to explore anything else since I got it 3 years ago


----------



## marvin3003

Here it is also upsampling from 44.1khz 16 bit to 352khz 32 bit.


----------



## Rurouni

Have a few questions for the OS X users on this thread:
1. Could I check if the TA-ZH1ES works on OS X Catalina 10.15 with no issues? 
2. Is it also plug and play through selecting of the TA-ZH1ES as one of the sound outputs? 
3. Specifically for video and YouTube played via browsers such as Safari/Firefox, is there any video / audio sync lag?

My main setup will be from an iMac (iTunes, Spotify etc) -> TA-ZH1ES -> IEM/Headphones

Thanks!


----------



## tradyblix

Theres no problem using it with Catalina. 

You can select it for the system through the usual way in macOS - through Audio Midi settings application. 

However, many applications - like Audirvana - will detect it if its powered on, and you can select from within the application directly. So you will need to see which way is best depending on your use case.

I didn’t notice any sync lag with it.  But I primarily use it for music, although I do watch videos with it without problems.


----------



## Lookout57

Rurouni said:


> Have a few questions for the OS X users on this thread:
> 1. Could I check if the TA-ZH1ES works on OS X Catalina 10.15 with no issues?
> 2. Is it also plug and play through selecting of the TA-ZH1ES as one of the sound outputs?
> 3. Specifically for video and YouTube played via browsers such as Safari/Firefox, is there any video / audio sync lag?
> ...


I'm avoiding Catalina like the plague. Mojave works fine.


----------



## tradyblix

Theres no need to unless you have a lot of 32 bit games or apps, since Catalina removes the old 32 bit subsystems. Catalina works fine.


----------



## Laoconte

I love my TA, but I use 6,3 output. I tried xlr4 and it is lower volume that 6,3 unbalanced. I used the sennheiser ch800s wire, is it normal?


----------



## Laoconte

I want  to test the 4.4 output with my hd800s and compare with the xlr4 output.


----------



## nc8000

Laoconte said:


> I want  to test the 4.4 output with my hd800s and compare with the xlr4 output.



I would assume that it will be identical


----------



## Whitigir

nc8000 said:


> I would assume that it will be identical


Except if the cables have different materials and build


----------



## Laoconte

Maybe is the problem the wire? If I compare  3.5 output and 4.4 with my andomeda s, the 4.4 is stronger. But if I compare the 6.5 output and xlr4 with hd800s, the 6.5 output is similar or lower...I don't undestand...


----------



## Whitigir (Dec 28, 2019)

I am confused, 1/4 is single ended and XLR IS balanced.  Of course XLR is going to sound more powerful than 1/4

3.5 is a Single ended, so it is weaker than 4.4 which is balanced.


----------



## Laoconte

I use 3,5 alo litz cable and 4.4 forza audioworks cable to compare with andrmeda s. Sennheiser ch800s xlr4 cable and 6,3 sennheiser cable with hd800s. 4.4 mm output is stronger that 3,5 in my TA, but I can't say the same when compare xlr4 and 6,3 output with sennheiser hd800s.....


----------



## Whitigir

That can not be possible.  Balanced out is listed to have twice as much power :/


----------



## Laoconte

I can't appreciate it in my TA, tommorrow I wll test again and the last week I will test with a 4.4 cable for hd 800s


----------



## Laoconte

I listen -20 db in low gain with andro with 3,5 output and I have the same volume with -30 db with 4,4 mm output. Now I have not my xlr4 cable at home to compare volmune with hd800s


----------



## Laoconte

I hope my unit is correct, I bought new in october. It has only 3 months


----------



## Fsilva

Is there a way to connect the TA to powered speakers via XLR? 
I´ve been using my TA using the RCA connections, but would like to use it via XLR if possible .


----------



## Lookout57

Get a XLR to RCA adapter for your speakers.


----------



## Fsilva (Dec 30, 2019)

Lookout57 said:


> Get a XLR to RCA adapter for your speakers.



Would´nt that damage the speaker? Since the rca cables are not balanced, and an XLR cable is.
Also would i gain any benefit in terms of sound using that adapter?
My idea was use mainly to use the TA balanced outputs connected to my focal shape twin monitors, in order to see if i would gain any benefit in terms of sound quality.


----------



## Lookout57

Fsilva said:


> Would´nt that damage the speaker? Since the rca cables are not balanced, and an XLR cable is.
> Also would i gain any benefit in terms of sound using that adapter?
> My idea was use mainly to use the TA balanced outputs connected to my focal shape twin monitors, in order to see if i would gain any benefit in terms of sound quality.


A properly made adapter won't be a problem.

The only benefit for using it would be if that was the only input.


----------



## tradyblix

The headphone outs are not line level out and they are not the correct output for any speakers. Use the RCA outs.


----------



## Fsilva

tradyblix said:


> The headphone outs are not line level out and they are not the correct output for any speakers. Use the RCA outs.


I know they´re not, still i would like to try and use them to see the benefits one might get buy using them.


----------



## nc8000

Fsilva said:


> I know they´re not, still i would like to try and use them to see the benefits one might get buy using them.



There would be nothing wrong in making a cable from one of the balanced headphone outs to xlr in on your speakers


----------



## Fsilva

nc8000 said:


> There would be nothing wrong in making a cable from one of the balanced headphone outs to xlr in on your speakers


And what about the sound benefits? Would I notice any improvement over the fixed rca outputs? Would the sound drop using the the balanced headphone outs, or would it increase and aloud the TA to shine a bit more?


----------



## nc8000

Fsilva said:


> And what about the sound benefits? Would I notice any improvement over the fixed rca outputs? Would the sound drop using the the balanced headphone outs, or would it increase and aloud the TA to shine a bit more?



No idea but I'm sure there would be differences


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## tradyblix (Dec 31, 2019)

There would not be any benefits. Balanced is conpletely overrated, a fad, and in many cheaper amps is the worse signal path. Also its at the wrong volume level, line out is not the same as headphone out and you will not get better sound from hooking stuff up incorrectly. There nothing wrong with RCA outs. This amp does not have a proper balanced line level out.

Enough of this madness in the comments.

In fact the only reason to use balanced on this amp is because it has a little more power for some headphones that require it than SE does. There is NOT a big SQ difference.

Changing cables is likely to be a bigger difference.


----------



## rosci

tradyblix said:


> There would not be any benefits. Balanced is conpletely overrated, a fad, and in many cheaper amps is the worse signal path. Also its at the wrong volume level, line out is not the same as headphone out and you will not get better sound from hooking stuff up incorrectly. There nothing wrong with RCA outs. This amp does not have a proper balanced line level out.
> 
> Enough of this madness in the comments.
> 
> ...


i agree. balanced vs. single ended for headphones and consumer audio is mostly  for marketing purposes. using balanced on the tazzy has its advantages because it has more output power. balanced per se in my opinion does not add much in terms of sq.

background: balanced transmission is mostly used in pro audio, both in analog studio and life / pa applications (such as for instance microphone cables) where longer cable distances need to be designed so they reject unwanted interference. balanced designs cancel out interference through common mode rejection. something that is just usually not a concern with 6ft of rca or headphone cables...

so... the tazzy is not the most powerful of headphone amps out there and if you need power reserves then tap into the balanced output. if output power is not a concern then there is a good chance you won't hear a difference between balances vs. se...


----------



## nc8000

rosci said:


> i agree. balanced vs. single ended for headphones and consumer audio is mostly  for marketing purposes. using balanced on the tazzy has its advantages because it has more output power. balanced per se in my opinion does not add much in terms of sq.
> 
> background: balanced transmission is mostly used in pro audio, both in analog studio and life / pa applications (such as for instance microphone cables) where longer cable distances need to be designed so they reject unwanted interference. balanced designs cancel out interference through common mode rejection. something that is just usually not a concern with 6ft of rca or headphone cables...
> 
> so... the tazzy is not the most powerful of headphone amps out there and if you need power reserves then tap into the balanced output. if output power is not a concern then there is a good chance you won't hear a difference between balances vs. se...



Apart from more power I usually find that balanced delivers a cleaner and more defined sound with a darker background with less “noise” due to eliminating the common ground


----------



## Fsilva

Guys thanks for your opinions/suggestions, I do like the balanced output when using my headphones/in ears on both the TA and the wm1a, and thought that I could gain by using the balanced outputs connected to my powered speakers. 

Also I was considering on upgrading my studio monitors and since the ones I was looking from Focal only had xlr inputs i wanted to make sure if the TA would work as it’s fullest on this specific scenario. 
My doubts had been clarified and for now I will keep my actual monitors and use the rca fixed outputs like I’ve always used since day 1.


----------



## rosci

nc8000 said:


> Apart from more power I usually find that balanced delivers a cleaner and more defined sound with a darker background with less “noise” due to eliminating the common ground


i must admit i also go with balanced whenever i can as theory suggests that balanced is superior to se and i surely don't want to miss a thing 

and with sony pushing their 4.4 pentacon my assumption always has been that balanced is the tazzy's "primary" output and se would be its "derivative" / "secondary" output.

so, i can't really claim that i've heard a difference between balanced and se (while i'm sure i've heard a difference between cables) but i nevertheless tend to go for balanced whenever i have a choice - and if it's only to satisfy my "audiophilia nervosa"


----------



## rosci

Fsilva said:


> Guys thanks for your opinions/suggestions, I do like the balanced output when using my headphones/in ears on both the TA and the wm1a, and thought that I could gain by using the balanced outputs connected to my powered speakers.
> 
> Also I was considering on upgrading my studio monitors and since the ones I was looking from Focal only had xlr inputs i wanted to make sure if the TA would work as it’s fullest on this specific scenario.
> My doubts had been clarified and for now I will keep my actual monitors and use the rca fixed outputs like I’ve always used since day 1.


also note that xlr as used for studio monitors has a slightly different design than xlr4 as used for headphones. xlr has balanced audio path plus also dedicated ground.

also voltage levels are different.

i wouldn't blindly recommend to connect xlr monitors to an xlr4 headphone output.


----------



## nc8000

rosci said:


> also note that xlr as used for studio monitors has a slightly different design than xlr4 as used for headphones. xlr has balanced audio path plus also dedicated ground.
> 
> also voltage levels are different.
> 
> i wouldn't blindly recommend to connect xlr monitors to an xlr4 headphone output.



Xlr line cables can have ground but are not required to have it


----------



## kingy

nc8000 said:


> Apart from more power I usually find that balanced delivers a cleaner and more defined sound with a darker background with less “noise” due to eliminating the common ground


Definitely. This is what I hear on my tazzy.


----------



## Andrew Sedgwick

Hi  - is it possible to connect an iPhone to the TA using the camera kit? Also has anyone compared the TA to the Chord Mojo - if so is there a noticeable difference in sound quality. My headphones are HD800S and HD700. Use Apple Music and Tidal as my source onto an iPhone, I always think the sound  direct from the iPhone is pretty good and marginally better with the mojo connected. Considering whether the TA is a good option for me.


----------



## uzku

Andrew Sedgwick said:


> Hi  - is it possible to connect an iPhone to the TA using the camera kit? Also has anyone compared the TA to the Chord Mojo - if so is there a noticeable difference in sound quality. My headphones are HD800S and HD700. Use Apple Music and Tidal as my source onto an iPhone, I always think the sound  direct from the iPhone is pretty good and marginally better with the mojo connected. Considering whether the TA is a good option for me.


Tidal works with 24/96 using a camera kit on an iPad Pro (lightning connection)


----------



## Sp12er3 (Jan 6, 2020)

Laoconte said:


> I hope my unit is correct, I bought new in october. It has only 3 months


as it work as intended on the Andromeda doesnt that point more on the HD800's cable? ah wait the andromeda test is using the 4.4 and the 800 is using the XLR huh.. well that does sounds weird


----------



## Rurouni

Will be receiving my TA at the end of the month, with the ease of input connections, going to be fun testing my small collection of IEMs and full-sized headphones on it  Couple of questions for existing users:

1. Does the Walkman port on the TA charge your mobile phone if you connect it via micro usb? Or it is just for reading the phone/Walkman?
2. Does DSEE up-sample work better on the TA than on the Walkmans? I dont really hear much of a difference on my ZX300


----------



## purk

No and likely yes.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 12, 2020)

Rurouni said:


> Will be receiving my TA at the end of the month, with the ease of input connections, going to be fun testing my small collection of IEMs and full-sized headphones on it  Couple of questions for existing users:
> 
> 1. Does the Walkman port on the TA charge your mobile phone if you connect it via micro usb? Or it is just for reading the phone/Walkman?
> 2. Does DSEE up-sample work better on the TA than on the Walkmans? I dont really hear much of a difference on my ZX300



Here is some information about question 2.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-wm1z-wm1a.815841/page-2068#post-15392340

In short it’s subtle but noticeable.


----------



## Rurouni

Thanks for the info and links all! Looks like it is more noticeable with the newer AI based algorithms.


----------



## tradyblix

It's not supposed to be some crazy filter that radically changes the sound. It's purpose is to give you different subltle improvement presentations depending on the type of music you are listening to. I use percussion setting with electronic music for example. And i use female vocal with most female vocal and guitars stuff. the rest of the time I just use the auto preset.


----------



## Redcarmoose

This may sound like a dumb question but, there are no EQ settings on the TA, right? Normally I don’t use it on other gear.


----------



## tradyblix

No EQ


----------



## Rurouni (Jan 18, 2020)

Received the TA-ZH1ES, and testing it on my M9s first as they are my go to for monitoring.

Really nice sound stage dynamics, and really complements the ability of the M9 to deliver on quiet sections of pieces.

Differences with DSD remastering seem slight, but that to me is a good thing.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Rurouni said:


> Received the TA-ZH1ES, and testing it on my M9s first as they are my go to for monitoring.
> 
> Really nice sound stage dynamics, and really complements the ability of the M9 to deliver on quiet sections of pieces.
> 
> Differences with DSD remastering seem slight, but that to me is a good thing.



It’s great and quiet with IEMs.


----------



## ASIN

I purchased a NW-ZX507 Walkman in the EU not realizing that with the cap it would not drive my headphones. I have purchased the Sony TA-ZH1ES to drive the headphones but the Walkman Port does not seem to work from the NW-ZX507. Does any have ideas of how I can connect them? Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Would a USB C to USB B work for this case?


----------



## tradyblix

cosplayerkyo said:


> Would a USB C to USB B work for this case?



Works fine. But not for his case. His player has a WM Port


----------



## RYCeT (Jan 30, 2020)

I just got the TA-ZH1ES. I'm currently using Mac mini. I connect it through the USB cable. I have updated the firmware to version 1.0.3

This is my current settings

Gain High
DSEE HX Standard
DSD Remastering On
DC Phase Linearizer On
Analog in Format DSD11.2MHz

Is this settings good? I'm using Sony MDR-Z1R with balanced output.

Edit: I tried using Sony Hi-Res Audio Player program vs iTunes. They are both using same files (iTunes burn ALAC files) I found iTunes is muddy compared to Sony Hi-Res Audio Player. Is there any setting I need to adjust on iTunes to play it correctly?


----------



## SupperTime

Is this player better than the wm1a or WM1Z in terms of sound quality alone? 
I will be using Iems with this at home. No longer looking for portability


----------



## Lookout57

It's not a player you will need a transport.


----------



## SupperTime

Lookout57 said:


> It's not a player you will need a transport.


That's fine, I'll have a either a phone, a computer or midfi transport. But I'm looking to spend 2k on a system, I'm under the guess that spending on desktop unit (even if it's for iem) is a beyyer bang for buck when it comes to sound quality, this would be my first desktop amp.


----------



## Lookout57

As a desktop DAC Headphone amp it's better at driving headphones then the WM1A/1Z players as it has higher output. It also offers DSD upsampling for any source which the DAPs can't do (unless you go nuts and get the DMP1).


----------



## Damz87

SupperTime said:


> Is this player better than the wm1a or WM1Z in terms of sound quality alone?
> I will be using Iems with this at home. No longer looking for portability


Which IEM’s will you be using? The TA has a higher output impedance than WM1A/Z so if your IEM’s are sensitive, it may not necessarily be better. For instance my Andromeda’s sound better with my WM1Z than they do with the TA


----------



## SupperTime

Damz87 said:


> Which IEM’s will you be using? The TA has a higher output impedance than WM1A/Z so if your IEM’s are sensitive, it may not necessarily be better. For instance my Andromeda’s sound better with my WM1Z than they do with the TA


U18t iems, what do you think it would be the effect


----------



## fullbass

Anybody tried Kimber Kable USB Bus B Ag or Cu? Any SQ difference?


----------



## tradyblix

RYCeT said:


> I just got the TA-ZH1ES. I'm currently using Mac mini. I connect it through the USB cable. I have updated the firmware to version 1.0.3
> 
> This is my current settings
> 
> ...



Yes. That's the settings I generally use. You should experiment with strings, female vocals tho as appropriate. 

If you want a more digital, faster attacking sound, say if you have a slower pair of headphones and want to compensate, you can turn off the DC Phase Linearizer.


----------



## tradyblix

fullbass said:


> Anybody tried Kimber Kable USB Bus B Ag or Cu? Any SQ difference?



My experience with those is they are tweaker devices. it's not necessary.

You may slightly improve or change the sound. It also might cause problems later on like my Jitterbug did. 

Spend money on nicer cables first.


----------



## fullbass

tradyblix said:


> Spend money on nicer cables first



You mean a cable for headphones? Yeah, I have replaced a stock cable and thought to replace the stock Sony USB cable with Kimber one


----------



## tradyblix

fullbass said:


> You mean a cable for headphones? Yeah, I have replaced a stock cable and thought to replace the stock Sony USB cable with Kimber one



I mean all cables in your system period. Lots of gains to be had there.


----------



## Lookout57

fullbass said:


> Anybody tried Kimber Kable USB Bus B Ag or Cu? Any SQ difference?


I went with the Audioquest Carbon which is a hell of a lot cheaper than the Kimber Kables based on recommendations from people using the Sony Dock and WM1A/Z. It was a big improvement over a standard cable.


----------



## bflat

Anyone know the measured output impedance of the TA-ZH1es balanced?


----------



## fullbass

bflat said:


> Anyone know the measured output impedance of the TA-ZH1es balanced?



32 Ohm - 1200 mW


----------



## tradyblix

Output PowerBalanced: 1,200 mW + 1,200 mW (1% @ 32 Ohms, 1 kHz)
Unbalanced: 300 mW + 300 mW (1% @ 32 Ohms, 1 kHz)Impedance12 to 600 Ohms


----------



## nc8000

tradyblix said:


> Output PowerBalanced: 1,200 mW + 1,200 mW (1% @ 32 Ohms, 1 kHz)
> Unbalanced: 300 mW + 300 mW (1% @ 32 Ohms, 1 kHz)Impedance12 to 600 Ohms



To the best of my knowledge those ohms are loads not output impedance


----------



## bflat

Thanks for the replies, but as @nc8000 mentions, I am hoping someone knows the output impedance and not output power. Best guess I have is from the recommended range of headphone input impedance of at least 12 ohms which would indicate something close to 1.5 ohm output impedance. I hope someone can reference a measurement as my ears tell me it's closer to 2-3 ohms. I'm trying to figure out why my EE Wraith sound best on TA-ZH1es so I can look to match that on a portable device.


----------



## fullbass

bflat said:


> I am hoping someone knows the output impedance and not output power



Take a look page 1 in the current thread


_Output Impedance_ 8-600Ω


----------



## nc8000

fullbass said:


> Take a look page 1 in the current thread
> 
> 
> _Output Impedance_8-600Ω


I think that is recommended loads, not output impedans, which to my knowledge is a fixed number, but Sony traditionally don’t publish that number


----------



## Damz87

bflat said:


> Thanks for the replies, but as @nc8000 mentions, I am hoping someone knows the output impedance and not output power. Best guess I have is from the recommended range of headphone input impedance of at least 12 ohms which would indicate something close to 1.5 ohm output impedance. I hope someone can reference a measurement as my ears tell me it's closer to 2-3 ohms. I'm trying to figure out why my EE Wraith sound best on TA-ZH1es so I can look to match that on a portable device.



I’m interested to know too. I’m sure I read somewhere in this thread that the balanced port is around 5 ohms but I might be wrong.


----------



## tradyblix

How would you go about measuring it ? I can ask an electrician for a meter if there's a way to do it.


----------



## bflat

tradyblix said:


> How would you go about measuring it ? I can ask an electrician for a meter if there's a way to do it.



http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-InputOutputImpedance.htm

Basically, run a 1kHz test tone to the amp and measure the voltage drop with no load compared to load and use the ratios to calculate output impedance. There are other nuances to get an accurate measurement so best to have someone who has done this before. I tried with a cheap multimeter and readings were all over the place so don't have the skills needed to do it.


----------



## TerryGantnerFamilyWorkout

Hi all, 
So I’m very much a newbie to this scene and trying to figure everything out. I’ve read good reviews of the TA-ZH1ES but I was hoping someone could clarify a question. I have a NW-ZX507. It seems that I’d have to connect it with a USB C to USB B connector. I presume this would work but more importantly how would the TA-ZH1ES handle streaming? I’ve been told this wouldn’t work or wouldn’t work well. I appreciate any insight. Thanks!


----------



## bflat

TerryGantnerFamilyWorkout said:


> Hi all,
> So I’m very much a newbie to this scene and trying to figure everything out. I’ve read good reviews of the TA-ZH1ES but I was hoping someone could clarify a question. I have a NW-ZX507. It seems that I’d have to connect it with a USB C to USB B connector. I presume this would work but more importantly how would the TA-ZH1ES handle streaming? I’ve been told this wouldn’t work or wouldn’t work well. I appreciate any insight. Thanks!



I don't think that will work because the rear USB port on the TA-ZH1ES requires power. But you got my curiosity going so I experimented with my iPad Pro and got it working using the WM Port on the side of the TA-ZH1ES. I just used the following:

1) USB C OTG adapter - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077FY7831/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
2) Standard USB micro cable

I'm am posting while listening to streaming from Apple Music. Unfortunately, I don't see the TA-ZH1ES providing power to my iPad Pro so it's not charging. When I use my WM1z with a WM Port cable, it does charge.


----------



## fullbass

Replaced a stock USB-B - USB-A cable with *Kimber Kable USB B BUS* (CU A-B) and never come back

Changes in sound are very noticeable. First of all, this concerns the sound stage, which becomes much more holographic, immersive, with better localization of instruments and vocals, an amazing sense of space. Overall, sound has become more engaging.

I was skeptical that a digital cable could affect sound, but now I have heard it myself.


----------



## Lookout57

fullbass said:


> Replaced a stock USB-B - USB-A cable with *Kimber Kable USB B BUS* (CU A-B) and never come back
> 
> Changes in sound are very noticeable. First of all, this concerns the sound stage, which becomes much more holographic, immersive, with better localization of instruments and vocals, an amazing sense of space. Overall, sound has become more engaging.
> 
> I was skeptical that a digital cable could affect sound, but now I have heard it myself.


Which Kimber Kable USB? USB-CU, USB-AG or KS USB-CU?


----------



## CantScareMe

Hello everyone.

Can I ask please what the part number is for the proprietary supplied walkman cable (connects say a WM1Z to the Tazzy from the input on the side).

I know it's a pretty poor cable but I can't seem to locate it anywhere (sony support is useless)

Thanks to anyone who replies in advance


----------



## CantScareMe

Actually sony got back to me after I seriously chased them 

https://eu.eetgroup.com/i/184977911-Sony-Connection-Cable-For-WM

€119 excluding VAT for the one of the poorest cables you can ever hope to come across.

That's the high-end sony audio division I know!


----------



## Lookout57 (Feb 26, 2020)

CantScareMe said:


> Actually sony got back to me after I seriously chased them
> 
> https://eu.eetgroup.com/i/184977911-Sony-Connection-Cable-For-WM
> 
> ...


You can also use WMC-NWH10 and a normal USB cable. I don't think this setup will charge the DAP.


----------



## CantScareMe

Yea, that's what I'll probably end up doing. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## RYCeT

CantScareMe said:


> Yea, that's what I'll probably end up doing. Thanks for the reply!



The best way to connect WM1A/Z to TA-ZH1ES is using the usb digital output from Sony dock BCR-NWH10


----------



## Damz87

The PHA-2A comes with this little otg style wm cable that can be used to connect WM1Z & TA out of the Walkman port. It also charges the WM1Z. Maybe Sony can provide one of these as a spare part or can get a cheap 2nd hand one?


----------



## nc8000

Damz87 said:


> The PHA-2A comes with this little otg style wm cable that can be used to connect WM1Z & TA out of the Walkman port. It also charges the WM1Z. Maybe Sony can provide one of these as a spare part or can get a cheap 2nd hand one?



Somebody mentioned that this cable cost over 100 USD as a spare part


----------



## Damz87

nc8000 said:


> Somebody mentioned that this cable cost over 100 USD as a spare part



Sorry, I missed that. Yeah not worth paying that much for a cable.


----------



## Fsilva

Hey guy´s i´m gonna put my TA for sale in the upcoming week, just waiting for my new dac to arrive before puting it for sale, if anyone´s interested just sent me a pm.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 2, 2020)

I don’t know if it’s been posted in this thread but I purchased my Sony TA-ZH1ES about a year and a half ago. It came with early firmware and  I just updated..............and firmware 1.03 is noticeably brighter.......most likely better?

Possible that the trends with the TA updates are in reality parallel to our Walkman updates; where Sony does not admit to a sound change but they have been running slightly brighter with each new update? 

Don’t take my words for fact do your own study and come to your own conclusions. 

A word of warning if you are on old firmware and like it, make sure you have a dowloaded copy of you present firmware so you can roll back if needed. I’m not sure the older firmware is around? I also caution that we can roll back the Walkmans to old firmware, not sure the TA rolls back, as I’ve never done it, nor read about someone doing so.

So I’m not sure if it’s even possible to roll back the TA to old firmware. If you can’t roll back and don’t like 1.03 you could be stuck.

Each Sony region will have it’s own firmware update location. Make sure your TA is hooked up to a PC with a USB and you have it on PC in. Strangely I used to use Music Center, which I think will update your TA automatically, but have not used it since this new update came out.

https://www.sony.co.id/en/electronics/support/downloads/Y0015296

Sound quality is a subjective thing, so many are going to like the update with many not.


----------



## Damz87

Redcarmoose said:


> I don’t know if it’s been posted in this thread but I purchased my Sony TA-ZH1ES about a year and a half ago. It came with early firmware and  I just updated..............and firmware 1.03 is noticeably brighter.......most likely better?
> 
> Possible that the trend with the TA updates are in reality parallel to our Walkman updates; where Sony does not admit to a sound change but they have been running slightly brighter with each new update.
> 
> ...



I can’t find a download of 1.02 to test this, unfortunately


----------



## Redcarmoose

Damz87 said:


> I can’t find a download of 1.02 to test this, unfortunately



Right. And that’s the scary part for some. I have not even used my full-size headphones with the TA with the update, it may be slightly bright now? I don’t know. 

That’s why if folks like their old software they should be careful about updates and they change the sound. Lucky we can roll back with the Walkmans. I’ll do a search for old firmwares. But it’s may Ben that even with old firmware the TA does not roll-back. Also maybe this style of update could even happen if someone was to download and start using  Music Center? It would ask them to update, but then it would.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Damz87 said:


> I can’t find a download of 1.02 to test this, unfortunately



I think we will be able to find someone with an old update. Still if it rolls back, that’s the question.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Damz87 said:


> I can’t find a download of 1.02 to test this, unfortunately



I only could find the first one?


https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads/W0010964

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/...dphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads/Z0005644


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 2, 2020)

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH10-Conversion-Cable-Output/dp/B00FF086HE

While the replacement side connector $100 and WMC-NWH10 may cost $38 you can connect your Walkman to the TA on the side combining the NWH10 with a regular mini USB to standard USB. In this configuration you can have a computer hooked to the back and a Walkman hooked up to the side. Still the cradle is the best way to go.


----------



## Rob49 (Mar 2, 2020)

Don't know which firmware i have ? Only ever connected to PC once before. Don't know whether to update ??

I realised i must have the latest update, because this is going back to 2017


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> Don't know which firmware i have ? Only ever connected to PC once before. Don't know whether to update ??


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 2, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> Don't know which firmware i have ? Only ever connected to PC once before. Don't know whether to update ??
> 
> I realised i must have the latest update, because this is going back to 2017



Well, I brought out the MDR-Z1R, as that’s really what the amp is for, not IEMs. And while there may have been a difference..... it was not as noticeable as with the tone of the qdc Anole V3. Though I’m confident the firmware has changed things. At some point I’ll roll back to 1.00 as that’s the only point of going back I have. I have not been able to find 1.02 or 1.01 on line as Sony takes them down, all except 1.00?

If you hook up to Music Center it may tell you your firmware level?

All I can say is there was a silky laid-back style to my firmware before 1.03. To tell you the truth, I don’t even know what I upgraded from? But it was noticeably darker and thicker?

The new 1.03 has a more midcentric focus. The soundstage seems both wider in the mids, but because the mids are slightly more forward, and the lower bass soundstage is noticed less.........it’s maybe missing a little? I would almost think to say there are attributes to both, though they could not co-exist in the same firmware update.


----------



## Rob49

Redcarmoose said:


> Well, I brought out the MDR-Z1R, as that’s really what the amp is for, not IEMs. And while there may have been a difference..... it was not as noticeable as with the tone of the qdc Anole V3. Though I’m confident the firmware has changed things. At some point I’ll roll back to 1.00 as that’s the only point of going back I have. I have not been able to find 1.02 or 1.01 on line as Sony takes them down, all except 1.00?
> 
> If you hook up to Music Center it may tell you your firmware level?
> 
> ...



I've only used the Music Centre, once before, but will check. What we need are 2 TA's side by side, with corresponding firmware, but i'm happy with my TA, regardless of what my firmware is.....i do dream of a DMP-Z1....and it will ONLY ever be a dream !! ( Sadly. )


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 3, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> I've only used the Music Centre, once before, but will check. What we need are 2 TA's side by side, with corresponding firmware, but i'm happy with my TA, regardless of what my firmware is.....i do dream of a DMP-Z1....and it will ONLY ever be a dream !! ( Sadly. )



Or someone could do a blind test where their friend updates to 1.03 or rolls back to 1.00 to see if the can hear a difference un-sighted. But I’m about 99% sure it’s different.


----------



## Fsilva

Just put my TA on the ads for sale. If anyone´s interested just sent me a pm.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 7, 2020)

Reposted from the 1Z/1A Thread here. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-wm1z-wm1a.815841/post-15501908






First off, the quick read is this is a direct comparison between the Sony $2200 TA-ZH1ES against the Sony $1200 Walkman 1A and $3200 Walkman 1Z using the Sony IER-Z1R. It’s a bicycle race against a car of course, but to keep things grounded here it may be important and pertinent? The TA-ZH1ES won out over the 1A with Universal Jupiter Level 3 and Walkman 1Z with regular 3.02 update.

So first off this isn’t a TA hooked up to a computer with a standard power cable. It’s the TA being connected to the 1A as a source in the cradle with the AQCarbon USB, and connected to the wall with a premium power cord. The IER-Z1R is simply plugged into the Walkman 1Z/1A 4.4mm port, then switched over to the TA 4.4mm port.

Files played were both 16bit/44.1 and 24bit/44.1.

I must admit I haven’t tried all the firmware modifications but have used Universal Jupiter3, and Jupiter1, D1.02 and D1.01, Club and Theater as well as Universal Venus 1 and Universal Venus 3. Also maybe my best luck with the IER-Z1R was Ultimate 2 as well amazingly was Universal Jupiter3. So to try and reach a modification software conclusion; Universal Jupiter3 was an all around winner due to it’s synergy with both the Noble Audio K-10 IEM with ZENTOO 4core 4.4mm and Sony stock 4.4mm cable IER-Z1R.

But!


To finish this comparison......the IER-Z1R somehow started to show the limits of what is now possible with the Sony 1A and modification software. And to be less critical, the modification software takes the 1A miles above it’s original Japanese Export Model sound signature with the IER-Z1R. It’s just that firmware update 1.03 for the TA-ZH1ES has taken the IER-Z1R/TA combo to an incredible new place.

What I’m finding is both the 1Z with stock 3.02 firmware and the 1A with firmware modification Universal Jupiter3, offer almost an artistic response.........where it’s not reference at all compared to the TA-ZH1ES.

Before software update 1.03 for the TA-ZH1ES; it could have been called maybe slightly too warm with the IER-Z1R?

But....what has happened now..............the TA has become my new reference in direct comparison to what I hear are actual weakness in the Walkman response. There are places in the Walkman responses where while entertaining and fun, they are simply not as technically proficient nor have as good of imaging or separation. Timbre on the Walkmans is not as accurate nor real.

So where does this leave us?

Probably with the Walkman 1A at $1200, or the 1Z at $3200, there is a good chance someone only wanting a desktop rig would actually benefit not getting the $3200 1Z and adding the IER-Z1R. They would be way better off getting the cradle and 1A and TA.

1A $1200
TA $2200

Vs


Sony 1Z $3200

While my listening tests are fully subjective it’s unarguable the extra amount of correct detail and quality clear response from the TA and IER-Z1R combo simply being better than what is possible with Walkmans.


----------



## Lookout57

My setup is very similar to yours the only difference is that I use the Kimber AXIOS Cu with the MDR-Z1R and don't have the IER-Z1R. I've found with DSD remastering on the TA 1.03 trumps the 1Z with stock 3.02 firmware.

Now that the "Planet" modified firmware for the WM1A/Z has been released, I'll need to see what once comes closest now to the TA with DSD Remastering.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 7, 2020)

Lookout57 said:


> My setup is very similar to yours the only difference is that I use the Kimber AXIOS Cu with the MDR-Z1R and don't have the IER-Z1R. I've found with DSD remastering on the TA 1.03 trumps the 1Z with stock 3.02 firmware.
> 
> Now that the "Planet" modified firmware for the WM1A/Z has been released, I'll need to see what once comes closest now to the TA with DSD Remastering.



New one tonight called Solis. Though I have not tried it, nor attempted to modify firmware the 1Z, nor change destination settings with the new Rockbox mod. 

Though the TA in my use before 1.03 2017 update, had attributes but tone was off, being slightly dark, though now just fine?

1Z has no DSD remastering engine, only DSEE HX. Though it’s interesting to read your positive thoughts on the TA. Many including myself didn’t know about the firmware update.


----------



## Lookout57

Redcarmoose said:


> New one tonight called Solis. Though I have not tried it, nor attempted to modify firmware the 1Z, nor change destination settings with the new Rockbox mod.
> 
> Though the TA in my use before 1.03 2017 update, had attributes but tone was off, being slightly dark, though now just fine?
> 
> 1Z has no DSD remastering engine, only DSEE HX. Though it’s interesting to read your positive thoughts on the TA. Many including myself didn’t know about the firmware update.


On the 1Z I usually alway have Direct Mode on. I have a lot of Hi-Res files in 24/44.1, 24/48, 24/96, 24/192 and DSD along with 16/44.1 CD rips. So DSD Remater makes a difference with all formats unlike DSEE HX.


----------



## Redcarmoose

I leave DSD remaster on all the time. It does seem to improve everything. Where DSEE HX was noted to work particularly better for low quality files and could possibly deter the quality of HD files. 

I’m also 100% direct with the 1Z, except one pair of IEMs that I EQ. 


Lookout57 said:


> On the 1Z I usually alway have Direct Mode on. I have a lot of Hi-Res files in 24/44.1, 24/48, 24/96, 24/192 and DSD along with 16/44.1 CD rips. So DSD Remater makes a difference with all formats unlike DSEE HX.


----------



## ZigyS

hello guys.
I read your discussion and i dont understand what does it mean Bright sound..
My Ta is connected to PC via either Intona USB cable or Neotech Silver USB cable - both with Intona Isolator.
There is a big sound difference between the cables... so all the talk about minor differences can be fixed with personal suitable cabling... and im not talking even about the headphone cable.
Power cable affect Sony  sound too, I use Vandenhul power - not the best but does the job well. Immediate better bass and mid response.
Now that power cable bring me to important topic - this AMP (the TA) needs to run about 20-30 minutes to warm up before anyone start to make any comparisons

Zigy


----------



## tradyblix

Redcarmoose said:


> All I can say is there was a silky laid-back style to my firmware before 1.03. To tell you the truth, I don’t even know what I upgraded from? But it was noticeably darker and thicker?



So... this firmware update came out 3 years ago, shortly after the device was released. All it does is correct a real bug where the inputs on the headphones didn't work right when switching, losing connection to the computer and also a display bug using the side walkman port under rare conditions.

I really don't think that it changed the sound of the device at all (I had no such experience) and I don't think people should be worried about it. However, if you are not experiencing either of those issues, you can stay at your original firmware.

Just my 2 cents. And yes, cables for sure affect sound IMO. Some don't agree and that's fine.


----------



## Redcarmoose

So you had a TA with older firmware and listened for a long time, updated and didn’t notice a sound change? 


tradyblix said:


> So... this firmware update came out 3 years ago, shortly after the device was released. All it does is correct a real bug where the inputs on the headphones didn't work right when switching, losing connection to the computer and also a display bug using the side walkman port under rare conditions.
> 
> I really don't think that it changed the sound of the device at all (I had no such experience) and I don't think people should be worried about it. However, if you are not experiencing either of those issues, you can stay at your original firmware.
> 
> Just my 2 cents. And yes, cables for sure affect sound IMO. Some don't agree and that's fine.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 15, 2020)

ZigyS said:


> hello guys.
> I read your discussion and i dont understand what does it mean Bright sound..
> My Ta is connected to PC via either Intona USB cable or Neotech Silver USB cable - both with Intona Isolator.
> There is a big sound difference between the cables... so all the talk about minor differences can be fixed with personal suitable cabling... and im not talking even about the headphone cable.
> ...



Quite simply Sony has released new firmware for the Walkman. There are over 34,000 posts in the Walkman thread; thousands discuss the firmware changing the sound of the Walkman. Sony made a new update for the TA, though many didn’t know they could update.

It is a generally accepted thing that Sony changes the sound with every Signature Walkman 1A and 1Z firmware update. Sony has never officially explained there is a new sound with every new firmware, though most notice it and graph the changes in tone they are all in agreement with.

I updated and definitely heard a change in tone for the better. The TA with 1.03 had slightly more detail and was just slightly brighter. I’m just posting my experience and theory. It was more noticeable with some headphones than others, but was also a slight difference with everything.

If your on 1.00 or 1.01 or 1.02 you can download 1.03 and plug your USB into a computer and update. Be warned though Sony only offers 1.03 and 1.00 for download now. Normally when Sony releases new firmware they take down the older firmware. Some folks may like the sound of 1.01 or 1.02 better.

Cheers!


----------



## tradyblix (Mar 15, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


> So you had a TA with older firmware and listened for a long time, updated and didn’t notice a sound change?



Yes.

Just because I had that experience tho, doesn't necessarily invalidate your personal experience. However, I have a lot of experience with high end audio over the last 15 years and I can say without a doubt that your brain can definitely play tricks on you that you ascribe to hardware.

For example, there are may times where I decide, no, this <insert hardware combo here> is definately better than <other hardware combo>. Usually after a listening session where I don't achieve what I want from it or I do, etc... and then this totally changes later on where I realize, you know, no, actually it's <original hardware combo> that is best.
I've come to realize that it can be highly subjective based on mood, the user, the track selection, etc. There's really no objective truth in audio. That doesn't mean there aren't differences or things aren't better.... _to you. _

I just wanted to provide my experience and the facts about what that firmware actually does in case it helps others that are reading and have similar or different experiences to ours, is all.



> It is a generally accepted thing that Sony changes the sound with every Signature Walkman 1A and 1Z firmware update. Sony has never officially explained there is a new sound with every new firmware, though most notice it and graph the changes in tone they are all in agreement with.



I don't think that it is, and not only that, Sony DAP firmware updates don't really have any relevance to this product, they're in 2 totally different classes. I can't speak for that device (1Z) since I don't own it. But it's a very slippery slope to claim that sony changes their sound signature of their products on firmware updates post development, and it's done as a matter of course and not revealed in the notes and everyone knows that.

If you think about that critically, it makes very little sense. Think about the work that goes into making a product sound a certain way and how that would jeopardize the end user. Also, I did not hear a big sound difference on my A-105TPS firmware updates. Those did fix some battery life issues I had tho. Now if it adds a new feature that affects the sound, obviously that's different.


----------



## Redcarmoose

tradyblix said:


> Yes.
> 
> Just because I had that experience tho, doesn't necessarily invalidate your personal experience. However, I have a lot of experience with high end audio over the last 15 years and I can say without a doubt that your brain can definitely play tricks on you that you ascribe to hardware.
> 
> ...



I totally agree, that it could be placebo. But strangely I have these $500-$600 qdc Anole V3 IEMs that always sounded slightly too dark with the TA. They are just shy of having all the needed upper midrange and treble detail. Still nice but not quite as involving as other IEMs I own with TA use. They have shown the biggest change and continue to never revert back to their old sound with the TA? 

I agree it’s just slightly noticeable with other headphones and IEMs. But in truth I always wanted the TA to be slightly brighter, as of the 1Z and 1A, TA combo group it was always the darkest, though not now it’s now the same in some ways.


----------



## tradyblix

If you want a bright amp... checkout the Hugo2's onboard amp. That is bright. And I think you might appreciate the darkness of the TA after listening to it, haha.


----------



## Redcarmoose

tradyblix said:


> If you want a bright amp... checkout the Hugo2's onboard amp. That is bright. And I think you might appreciate the darkness of the TA after listening to it, haha.



TA is perfect now. It’s always been the best synergy with the MDR-Z7 and MDR-Z1R. But now it’s a hair better with everything to my ears. I actually used to prefer the 1Z more, but the TA now has taken 1st place. I do have brighter equipment, but I’m not looking for bright so to speak. What I’m looking for IS the TA! That’s what’s so cool finally!


----------



## tradyblix

Yes it was designed to be used with both of those. But it also is great with the Empyrean and the Utopia as well as the HD800 and several other cans I used to own like Grado RS1


----------



## AltoBajo

I've recently bought a ta-zh1es,and couldn't be happier.I come from a Chord system.I much prefer the Sony in every way.I'm very much a believer in aftermarket cables and power supplies,etc.. I have a Audioquest NRG -Y3 mains cable with a Audioquest Carbon usb cable.I've recently bought one of these  https://www.isoteksystems.com/product/discovery/evo3-polaris/
The difference in everything,SQ,volume,detail,and oddly,bass,is astonishing! Worth every,penny,cent,centimo.Truly,a must have!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Congratulations. 
Do you know what firmware your on?


----------



## AltoBajo

Redcarmoose said:


> Congratulations.
> Do you know what firmware your on?


Haven't a clue.The ta was easy enough to set up.I've got to grips with the basics,and am really enjoying what I'm hearing.The Isotek unit arrived on Friday,and I've had a big smile on my face ever since! In the UK,the unit sells for £395.There's a Gemini version,as the name would suggest,a two socket set up,for £295. I'm using a MacBook as source,with CDs ripped to WAV enabling Error Correction.I have a brand new Sony NW1a,with a 256gb card,I plan to use as a future source.The problem is,with the current CV19 crisis,there are more important considerations.I say this,only because I'm not so young,and my son who does understand these things,is in lockdown in his apartment in Granada Spain!.I'll do what I usually do,bumble along.Stay healthy!


----------



## Redcarmoose

AltoBajo said:


> Haven't a clue.The ta was easy enough to set up.I've got to grips with the basics,and am really enjoying what I'm hearing.The Isotek unit arrived on Friday,and I've had a big smile on my face ever since! In the UK,the unit sells for £395.There's a Gemini version,as the name would suggest,a two socket set up,for £295. I'm using a MacBook as source,with CDs ripped to WAV enabling Error Correction.I have a brand new Sony NW1a,with a 256gb card,I plan to use as a future source.The problem is,with the current CV19 crisis,there are more important considerations.I say this,only because I'm not so young,and my son who does understand these things,is in lockdown in his apartment in Granada Spain!.I'll do what I usually do,bumble along.Stay healthy!



The only reason I say this is I had the TA for about a year and one half and loved it but also always thought it would sound better if it was slightly less dark. I later became curious to find out Sony has been updating the firmware. Right now if you go to Sony links you have access to firmware 1.00 and 1.03. 

https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads

They offer downloads for Mac and PC, though I’ve only used the PC download. You simply plug the TA into your computer and go to the Sony site and it will let you update the firmware. Also when you do start using your 1A as a file server you can simply hook-up to the TA side connection with the TA included Walkman cable. Later you may also want the Walkman Cradle which will do active USB filtering along with the AQCarbon USB cable you already have.  Cheers. 

Though a word of caution, Sony does not always offer roll back software so if your TA is in fact on 1.02 or 1.01, you may not be able to roll back to those after updating to 1.03. 

Also of course you may be totally happy not knowing what firmware you use and enjoy the TA just the way it is. The only reason I became interested in different firmware was they actually do change the sound of the Walkmans. 1.03 sounds slightly less warm, but still very smooth and detailed. 

Enjoy!


----------



## Redcarmoose

AltoBajo said:


> Haven't a clue.The ta was easy enough to set up.I've got to grips with the basics,and am really enjoying what I'm hearing.The Isotek unit arrived on Friday,and I've had a big smile on my face ever since! In the UK,the unit sells for £395.There's a Gemini version,as the name would suggest,a two socket set up,for £295. I'm using a MacBook as source,with CDs ripped to WAV enabling Error Correction.I have a brand new Sony NW1a,with a 256gb card,I plan to use as a future source.The problem is,with the current CV19 crisis,there are more important considerations.I say this,only because I'm not so young,and my son who does understand these things,is in lockdown in his apartment in Granada Spain!.I'll do what I usually do,bumble along.Stay healthy!



Cradle 
https://www.amazon.com/Walkman-Cradle-BCR-NWH10-NW-ZX2-Japan/dp/B00S94R5RK


----------



## Rurouni

Does anyone own a HD650 and tried pairing it with the TAZH1ES? Wondering if it pairs well with it?


----------



## AltoBajo

Redcarmoose said:


> The only reason I say this is I had the TA for about a year and one half and loved it but also always thought it would sound better if it was slightly less dark. I later became curious to find out Sony has been updating the firmware. Right now if you go to Sony links you have access to firmware 1.00 and 1.03.
> 
> https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads
> 
> ...


Thanks! I've read your very helpful observations on the various firmware updates for the TA and NW series.The TA is certainly quite warm,especially coming from Chord DACs.I have to be careful.I do favour a more romantic sound,as opposed to reference.John Darko did a comparison review between Campfire Andromeda and Polaris2.He described the Andromeda as being for truth seekers,and the Polaris2 for pleasure seekers.I have a pair of Polaris2,and I'm definitely in the pleasure seeker camp.I thought it was quite a neat way of summing up
the differences.I also have tinnitus.My hearing is fine ,just sensitive to spiky treble or sibilance.I have a pair of Campfire Atlas,which I'm having fit issues with.A pair of Custom Art molds
will be arriving soon.How the Atlas pair with the TA, and whichever firmware is in place at present, will be the acid test for the future.
I really appreciate you taking the time to advise.Thanks again!


----------



## AltoBajo

Rurouni said:


> Does anyone own a HD650 and tried pairing it with the TAZH1ES? Wondering if it pairs well with it?


I had a pair of 650s recabled with a Forza copper series cable.I used them with a Chord 2Qute.I found the combination quite dull to be honest.The TA is quite a bit darker/warmer than the Chord,so I can't imagine it would be a good pairing.The 650s with a hybrid copper/silver cable would be better,or the 660s,from what I have read,could be good with the TA.Everyone's hearing is different though.Good luck!


----------



## Rurouni

Thanks for the tips. Would be interesting to compile a list of iem/headphones that pair well with the TA. So far for me the ierz1r and m9 seems to pair nicely with the TA


----------



## tradyblix (Mar 25, 2020)

Rurouni said:


> Does anyone own a HD650 and tried pairing it with the TAZH1ES? Wondering if it pairs well with it?



I have a HD600 and it sounds great. You're not going to have a problem.

I definately prefer the DAC on my Hugo2. It's a really amazing dac. Obviously the TA has a nicer amp, warmer. It has also has a pretty great DAC as well IMO, right up there, but definately focused on a smoother type of sound than the Hugo. It's nice to have both options. I do think the TA takes the edge off the Hugo2 tho.

There are people that say that there are better amps out there as well, like Rupert Neve's headphone amp. And there are really expensive tube amps out there. So.... there's really no one size fits all in dacs or amps, it's just what works for you. It's always good to have options.


----------



## Imusicman

Hi,

I wonder if anyone is able to help me. I visited the Sony site to download 1.0.3 for Mac and followed the instructions. My Sony showed as connected and then I pressed the update button. It first said erasing, then writing, then failed to update. Now I can't find my Sony on my computer or in JRiver to connect. Basically I am now unable to use the Sony. 

Any suggestions please?


----------



## Lookout57

Imusicman said:


> Hi,
> 
> I wonder if anyone is able to help me. I visited the Sony site to download 1.0.3 for Mac and followed the instructions. My Sony showed as connected and then I pressed the update button. It first said erasing, then writing, then failed to update. Now I can't find my Sony on my computer or in JRiver to connect. Basically I am now unable to use the Sony.
> 
> Any suggestions please?


Is the TA functional? 

I would unplug and plug the TA back into your computer to see if it reappears. Otherwise reboot your computer.


----------



## Imusicman

Restarted the computer & unplugged and pugged the TA. Sony is responding fine to the remote but still not showing in my sound preferences or under audio device in JRiver. It was absolutely fine before trying install the update?

I've connected MO Shanling to the Mac and JRiver & picked it up immediately 

It seems like the driver has been wiped but yet it won't install the update?

Can anyone from Sony chime in if they are on this thread please.


----------



## Imusicman

Hi guys,

Could someone please post a copy of the previous versions of firmware for Mac. Im hoping that might help

Thanks in advance


----------



## Lookout57

Imusicman said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Could someone please post a copy of the previous versions of firmware for Mac. Im hoping that might help
> 
> Thanks in advance


I think someone posted the download links to the older versions somewhere in this thread.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Imusicman said:


> Hi,
> 
> I wonder if anyone is able to help me. I visited the Sony site to download 1.0.3 for Mac and followed the instructions. My Sony showed as connected and then I pressed the update button. It first said erasing, then writing, then failed to update. Now I can't find my Sony on my computer or in JRiver to connect. Basically I am now unable to use the Sony.
> 
> Any suggestions please?



I’ve never updated with a Mac? Do you have any access to a Windows PC? Also Music Center will help you update. Post your success. Sony gear will normally never do that but will simply have failure to update and stay on old firmware.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Imusicman said:


> Hi,
> 
> I wonder if anyone is able to help me. I visited the Sony site to download 1.0.3 for Mac and followed the instructions. My Sony showed as connected and then I pressed the update button. It first said erasing, then writing, then failed to update. Now I can't find my Sony on my computer or in JRiver to connect. Basically I am now unable to use the Sony.
> 
> Any suggestions please?




You do need to unplug and replug in the TA to the wall. Then you should see these screens? 
https://www.sony.co.th/en/electroni...dphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads/Y0015295


----------



## Redcarmoose

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads

Here is 1.03 and 1.00 for Windows and 1.03 for Apple.


----------



## Imusicman

Redcarmoose said:


> You do need to unplug and replug in the TA to the wall. Then you should see these screens?
> https://www.sony.co.th/en/electroni...dphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads/Y0015295



im getting to the stage where it says connected but when I press update it says erasing then failed verify?. I tried on it on my wife's work Laptop with is windows and it worked spot on at first time of asking.

So im guessing its something to do with my Mac?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Imusicman said:


> im getting to the stage where it says connected but when I press update it says erasing then failed verify?. I tried on it on my wife's work Laptop with is windows and it worked spot on at first time of asking.
> 
> So im guessing its something to do with my Mac?



So it worked. Yes, there has been stuff with Apple. Even trying to use the Apple with the 1Z and 1A in DAC mode did not work at first but does now? That’s great your TA is updated. Do you notice any sound changes? For me 1.03 was super noticeable with one IEM, but less noticeable with most of my collection?


----------



## Lookout57

Imusicman said:


> im getting to the stage where it says connected but when I press update it says erasing then failed verify?. I tried on it on my wife's work Laptop with is windows and it worked spot on at first time of asking.
> 
> So im guessing its something to do with my Mac?


Are you running macOS 10.15 Catalina? If so, that would explain it. None of the Sony updaters work due to them not updating their drivers.


----------



## Imusicman

Lookout57 said:


> Are you running macOS 10.15 Catalina? If so, that would explain it. None of the Sony updaters work due to them not updating their drivers.



Yes. This was updated yesterday. I think you made of found the answer fro me. ill just revert my Mac back to the previous


----------



## Lookout57

Imusicman said:


> Yes. This was updated yesterday. I think you made of found the answer fro me. ill just revert my Mac back to the previous


There are no issues if you stay on 10.14 Mojave.


----------



## Imusicman

Good to know but the horse as already bolted!

Apple support say they can't revert back to previous version of Catalina but technically I could back up my entire system to an external hard drive but then install Mojave. What a ball ache!

They advice contacting the manufacturer to update the driver?

Good luck with that I hear you say as Sony don't appear to update their drivers all that often on what was once considered a flagship product.

How ridiculous?

I now own a rather expensive Sony brick!


----------



## Lookout57

Imusicman said:


> Good to know but the horse as already bolted!
> 
> Apple support say they can't revert back to previous version of Catalina but technically I could back up my entire system to an external hard drive but then install Mojave. What a ball ache!
> 
> ...


Luckily I have enough computers that I can keep Mojave running on 1 or 2 for Sony updates. 

The alternative which I've tested is creating a Windows 10 or macOS Mojave VM under VMware Fusion and run the updaters from there.


----------



## Imusicman

Lookout57 said:


> Luckily I have enough computers that I can keep Mojave running on 1 or 2 for Sony updates.
> 
> The alternative which I've tested is creating a Windows 10 or macOS Mojave VM under VMware Fusion and run the updaters from there.



That sounds promising. Would you be able to PM me and explain how its done please. 

Thanks


----------



## tradyblix (Mar 26, 2020)

If that doesnt work and somehow your firmware got bricked you might need to get it repaired by sony. worst case scenario for bricked firmware is that the chip is replaced that you cant flash. Good luck with the other approaches.


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## 528273 (Mar 27, 2020)

Hi everyone,
I'm french (please excuse my poor english...) and new head-fier. I'm a happy user of a denon AHD9200 since 4 weeks. Burn'in them with my Audioquest cobalt (qobuz+audirvana+macbook). I want to upgrade my amp/DAC to get the best of those headphones. Looking for the Fostex HP-A8 MK2 or the Sony TA-ZH1ES. Which one would you advise me? Are those gears really better than the audioquest cobalt ? thank you very much for your answers  !


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## candlejack

Quick question for those using the TA with a Walkman. Can you use any of the DSP options in the Walkman, or is the signal "direct" all the time?


----------



## Lookout57

candlejack said:


> Quick question for those using the TA with a Walkman. Can you use any of the DSP options in the Walkman, or is the signal "direct" all the time?


The Walkman is a transport so the raw data is sent direct to the TA. In the TA you can do DSD Remastering which the Walkman can't do.


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> Quick question for those using the TA with a Walkman. Can you use any of the DSP options in the Walkman, or is the signal "direct" all the time?



Signal is direct so the WM is essentially just acting as a dumb usb storage device and all processing wil be done by the options on the TA


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## Redcarmoose (Mar 31, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Quick question for those using the TA with a Walkman. Can you use any of the DSP options in the Walkman, or is the signal "direct" all the time?










What’s interesting is I have not read people connecting their ZX300 to the TA? Yet the ZX300 has a Walkman Port connection? You could get the Walkman port to USB adapter or even try a Cradle to see if the TA can use the ZX300 as a digital file server. I actually hooked my 1A to the Walkman Port USB adapter once and then used a mini USB to connect the 1A to the side of the TA bypassing the use of the expensive   Included side cable, shown below.




Or of course try the TA included side connector. Lol


----------



## candlejack

Thanks for the answers, guys, it's what I was expected to be honest. But I heard @Redcarmoose and a youtuber say that sound quality is better with a Walkman than a PC, so I was trying to figure out how that _might_ be possible. The answers I came up with are:
- the TA treats data coming from the Walkman in some kind of preferential way (that would mean Sony intentionally crippling the USB in - a bit far fetched);
- the Walkman is doing some pre-processing of the digital data before sending it to the TA (again, very unlikely to produce an increase in quality, unless the TA has a worse DAC than the Walkman).

@Redcarmoose Yeah, I think the ZX300 has the flat "walkman port", so I'll probably use it with the TA as my music collection is there for the most part. Time to get a new HDD for my PC.


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> Thanks for the answers, guys, it's what I was expected to be honest. But I heard @Redcarmoose and a youtuber say that sound quality is better with a Walkman than a PC, so I was trying to figure out how that _might_ be possible. The answers I came up with are:
> - the TA treats data coming from the Walkman in some kind of preferential way (that would mean Sony intentionally crippling the USB in - a bit far fetched);
> - the Walkman is doing some pre-processing of the digital data before sending it to the TA (again, very unlikely to produce an increase in quality, unless the TA has a worse DAC than the Walkman).
> 
> @Redcarmoose Yeah, I think the ZX300 has the flat "walkman port", so I'll probably use it with the TA as my music collection is there for the most part. Time to get a new HDD for my PC.



Logically it should make no difference what feeds the dac as it is “just a stream of 0’s and 1’s” but to many (certainly not everybody) there are audible differences depending on source device and cables used (even how you connect a WM to the TA, via the WM port on the side with the included cable, via the WM to USB adaptor or via the full WM cradle). I have done no experimenti and only ever connected my Auralic streamer so can’t comment


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 31, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Thanks for the answers, guys, it's what I was expected to be honest. But I heard @Redcarmoose and a youtuber say that sound quality is better with a Walkman than a PC, so I was trying to figure out how that _might_ be possible. The answers I came up with are:
> - the TA treats data coming from the Walkman in some kind of preferential way (that would mean Sony intentionally crippling the USB in - a bit far fetched);
> - the Walkman is doing some pre-processing of the digital data before sending it to the TA (again, very unlikely to produce an increase in quality, unless the TA has a worse DAC than the Walkman).
> 
> @Redcarmoose Yeah, I think the ZX300 has the flat "walkman port", so I'll probably use it with the TA as my music collection is there for the most part. Time to get a new HDD for my PC.


Remember the TA is using USB in with the Walkman Port USB adapter and with the Cradle. So as far as reputation goes it’s.

1) USB in the back from the Cradle. (Probably better due to USB filters)
2) USB in the back of the TA with adapter.
3) mini USB on the side.

Note....1 2 and 3 are all using a Walkman as a digital source. 

So it’s really the opposite of your thoughts. The real question is why the Walkmans are indirectly crippled with the Sony directed methodology?

And of course many guess computer USB is noisy?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 31, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Thanks for the answers, guys, it's what I was expected to be honest. But I heard @Redcarmoose and a youtuber say that sound quality is better with a Walkman than a PC, so I was trying to figure out how that _might_ be possible. The answers I came up with are:
> - the TA treats data coming from the Walkman in some kind of preferential way (that would mean Sony intentionally crippling the USB in - a bit far fetched);
> - the Walkman is doing some pre-processing of the digital data before sending it to the TA (again, very unlikely to produce an increase in quality, unless the TA has a worse DAC than the Walkman).
> 
> @Redcarmoose Yeah, I think the ZX300 has the flat "walkman port", so I'll probably use it with the TA as my music collection is there for the most part. Time to get a new HDD for my PC.



But also let us know how the ZX300 sounds with the TA. Remember too, most of us are also admiring the DSD oversampling the TA is doing making it be one of the things the FPGAs don’t do in the Walkmans. And possibly being one of the additional reasons the TA can pull away as better in sound quality than the Walkmans.


----------



## candlejack

@Redcarmoose What are USB filters in this context?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 31, 2020)

candlejack said:


> @Redcarmoose What are USB filters in this context?



There has actually been photographic proof of a cradle being taken apart and analyzed showing active USB filter circuits inside (In the Walkman thread). But remember the Walkmans ARE doing stuff. Crazy as it seems the Walkmans firmware affects the Bluetooth. Meaning that the signal is different per each firmware before the Bluetooth is emitted. Same as the firmware doesn’t affect the digital output quality, but their could be timing issues which are better using a Walkman over a computer. We know the cradle with a quality USB cable sounds better than a computer. If it is just a “less noise signal” who knows? But using a Walkman gets better imaging and better detail. The USB cable seems to add treble clarity and treble soundstage? It’s crazy but many people notice the improvement from the AQCarbon with the Cradle. I had my Cradle for awhile waiting for the AQCarbon USB and it did change the sound?

There is EMF shielding material in the AQCarbon covering  which could also help?


----------



## Lookout57

Also note that the USB TYPE-B PORT in the back of the TA supports:
PCM 2ch; 44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192/352.8/384/705.6/768 kHz (16/24/32 bit) DSD 2ch Native; 2.8/5.6/11.2/22.4 MHz (1 bit) DSD 2ch DoP; 2.8/5.6/11.2 MHz (1 bit)

While the Walkman port only supports:
PCM 2ch; 44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192/352.8/384 kHz (16/24/32 bit) DSD 2ch Native; 2.8/5.6/11.2 MHz (1 bit) DSD 2ch DoP; 2.8/5.6 MHz(1 bit)

That could explain the differences in the sound.


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> There has actually been photographic proof of a cradle being taken apart and analyzed showing active USB filter circuits inside (In the Walkman thread). But remember the Walkmans ARE doing stuff. Crazy as it seems the Walkmans firmware affects the Bluetooth. Meaning that the signal is different per each firmware before the Bluetooth is emitted. Same as the firmware doesn’t affect the digital output quality, but their could be timing issues which are better using a Walkman over a computer. We know the cradle with a quality USB cable sounds better than a computer. If it is just a “less noise signal” who knows? But using a Walkman gets better imaging and better detail. The USB cable seems to add treble clarity and treble soundstage? It’s crazy but many people notice the improvement from the AQCarbon with the Cradle. I had my Cradle for awhile waiting for the AQCarbon USB and it did change the sound?


That's all interesting stuff, but it doesn't answer the question: what is a USB filter? 
Could you please link the post in the walkman thread that you mentioned? 



Redcarmoose said:


> The real question is why the Walkmans are indirectly crippled with the Sony directed methodology?


I missed this part of your reply earlier. Could you please explain a bit more, I don't understand what you mean by this statement?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 31, 2020)

candlejack said:


> That's all interesting stuff, but it doesn't answer the question: what is a USB filter?
> Could you please link the post in the walkman thread that you mentioned?
> 
> 
> I missed this part of your reply earlier. Could you please explain a bit more, I don't understand what you mean by this statement?



What I’m referring to is the 1, 2 and 3 tier system that many of us believe. So it goes the included side cable is the bottom tier which is what is included. Maybe because it lets the Walkmans easily control the songs from a viewable distance. Maybe Sony thought then the users could leave their computer hooked up to the back USB, and have both.

The Cradle does allow both a computer hooked up to the back of the dock with mini USB no doubt, then adds that to the USB signal with the Walkman signal. You switch a small switch on the back of the Cradle to choose.

The adapter is regarded as level 2 because it does bypass the mini side USB with use with the Walkmans but does not have USB filters like the Cradle.

So what’s included ends up the worst methodology.

I’ll look for the pictures.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 31, 2020)

candlejack said:


> That's all interesting stuff, but it doesn't answer the question: what is a USB filter?
> Could you please link the post in the walkman thread that you mentioned?
> 
> 
> I missed this part of your reply earlier. Could you please explain a bit more, I don't understand what you mean by this statement?







                Post #26,139 of 35,464


                Post #26,133 of 35,464



 
                Post #26,131 of 35,464


There are these posts and this picture. But years ago there where pictures of the Cradle taken completely apart. You’ll just have to look. Though this is a good shot of the circuits.
 

Per...Whitigir



I had modified 2 cradles, and so I know them well. The cradles is acting as 2 things.



1/ Charge the Walkman simultaneously

2/ transfer files in and out of Walkman via a switch



The cradles also has reclocking signals and isolation to improve digital signals via USB. It is the Same principal as the dongles but with bigger capacitors such as film capacitors and os-con, and bigger IC. If you know IFI I-purifier, the cradle is similar, but with different technology and implementation using Sony patented design and IC, which also charges the Walkman or transfer files.



The cradles is crazily cheap for what it can do, period.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Lookout57 said:


> Also note that the USB TYPE-B PORT in the back of the TA supports:
> PCM 2ch; 44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192/352.8/384/705.6/768 kHz (16/24/32 bit) DSD 2ch Native; 2.8/5.6/11.2/22.4 MHz (1 bit) DSD 2ch DoP; 2.8/5.6/11.2 MHz (1 bit)
> 
> While the Walkman port only supports:
> ...




That’s right, I forgot about that. Good one!


----------



## candlejack

Lookout57 said:


> Also note that the USB TYPE-B PORT in the back of the TA supports:
> PCM 2ch; 44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192/352.8/384/705.6/768 kHz (16/24/32 bit) DSD 2ch Native; 2.8/5.6/11.2/22.4 MHz (1 bit) DSD 2ch DoP; 2.8/5.6/11.2 MHz (1 bit)
> 
> While the Walkman port only supports:
> ...


That sounds like a bandwidth issue on the Walkman port. Is the USB on the back 3.0 (Edit: certainly doesn't look like it from the pictures)? I'm sure the WMPort is standard USB (except the form factor) with some extra pins thrown in there for additional communication lines (Edit: confirmed by the Rockbox WMPort map), but maybe it's only 2.0?

Edit: So I guess I can't explain it, but I'm still thinking it might be a bandwidth limitation on the WMPort.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 31, 2020)

candlejack said:


> That sounds like a bandwidth issue on the Walkman port. Is the USB on the back 3.0 (Edit: certainly doesn't look like it from the pictures)? I'm sure the WMPort is standard USB (except the form factor) with some extra pins thrown in there for additional communication lines (Edit: confirmed by the Rockbox WMPort map), but maybe it's only 2.0?
> 
> Edit: So I guess I can't explain it, but I'm still thinking it might be a bandwidth limitation on the WMPort.



The Cradle is the recommended way, so remember that’s using the Walkman port on the Walkmans to the back of the TA.  I don’t think those numbers for the back port are only off a computer USB? The Cradle uses the same rear back TA USB.

When he writes Walkman port that’s the side of the TA Walkman port.


----------



## candlejack (Mar 31, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


> What I’m referring to is the 1, 2 and 3 tier system that many of us believe. [...]


Ahh, OK, I see now. Thanks for clearing that up.


Redcarmoose said:


> The cradles also has reclocking signals and isolation to improve digital signals via USB.


I find this intriguing. What are these reclocking signals and the isolation you mention here?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 31, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Ahh, OK, I see now. Thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> I find this intriguing. What are these reclocking signals and the isolation you mention here?



I don’t mention it, https://www.head-fi.org/members/whitigir.378966/ does.
I simply listen.


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> The Cradle is the recommended way, so remember that’s using the Walkman port on the Walkmans to the back of the TA.  I don’t think those numbers for the back port are only off a computer USB? The Cradle uses the same rear back TA USB.
> When he writes Walkman port that’s the side of the TA Walkman port.


Only way to know for sure would be to load one of those higher resolution files (does anyone even have a file in such a sampling format?!) on the WM and see if you can make the TA play them with and without the cradle.


Redcarmoose said:


> I don’t mention it, https://www.head-fi.org/members/whitigir.378966/ does.
> I simply listen.


That's too bad, I doubt I'll get an explanation from him.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 31, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Only way to know for sure would be to load one of those higher resolution files (does anyone even have a file in such a sampling format?!) on the WM and see if you can make the TA play them with and without the cradle.



Right, because the TA will show the bit-rate in the window. But after your using the Cradle there is not much more you can do, aside from simply buying a DMP-Z1, which is what https://www.head-fi.org/members/whitigir.378966/ did.


----------



## Redcarmoose

candlejack said:


> Only way to know for sure would be to load one of those higher resolution files (does anyone even have a file in such a sampling format?!) on the WM and see if you can make the TA play them with and without the cradle.
> 
> That's too bad, I doubt I'll get an explanation from him.



A lot of this we don’t question as it’s beyond our ability to understand. What we do understand is how stuff sounds different. And of course for many of us we made small mistakes wanting to try stuff. I ended buying after-market cables for the IER-Z1R before finding how good the included IER-Z1R cables are. Crazy as the Kimber does do a great job over the included MDR-Z1R headphone cable. IMO


----------



## nc8000 (Mar 31, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


> Post #26,139 of 35,464
> 
> 
> Post #26,133 of 35,464
> ...



Instead of using the WM as source for the TA I went with the Auralic Aries Mini as I can put any size standard 3.5 or 2.5 hdd or ssd in that for much higher capacity. It also acts as a Spotify and Tidal client including mqa support and has a very good app for control (iPhone and iPad only)


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 31, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> Instead of using the WM as source for the TA I went with the Auralic Aries Mini as I can put any size standard 3.5 or 2.5 hdd or ssd in that for much higher capacity. It also acts as a Spotify and Tidal client including mqa support and has a very good app for control (iPhone and iPad only)



That would be interesting as to which would be better sounding. I only have 400GB, a 250GB, a 125GB and a 16GB card around. I could always use more storage. But that thing is getting closer to a computer, which is what I was trying to get away from. I have multi TBs off the computers I have with external drives, but they simply don’t sound the same. And you control that with a computer yes? That’s the thing, I really enjoy everything the Walkmans do. I like using the Walkman interface for the TA.


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> A lot of this we don’t question as it’s beyond our ability to understand. What we do understand is how stuff sounds different.


There are definitely aspects that I can't hope to truly understand given the amount of time and effort I'm willing to invest. However, USB filters sound like something I should be able to wrap my head around it, if presented with adequate information.
Plus, as you probably noticed, I trust the reasoning part of my brain a lot more than the sensory part.


----------



## Redcarmoose

candlejack said:


> There are definitely aspects that I can't hope to truly understand given the amount of time and effort I'm willing to invest. However, USB filters sound like something I should be able to wrap my head around it, if presented with adequate information.
> Plus, as you probably noticed, I trust the reasoning part of my brain a lot more than the sensory part.



The only reason I believe is because my early computer audio sessions had issues that I heard. I came to believe it was timing, though CDs from a transport sounded better. So for me Walkmans as a transport was just a feel-good thing. You could say I became paranoid of USB audio, even though the Walkmans ARE USB audio. Lol. 

What’s funny too is there is not a ton of information on the Cradle and what it does? You would think there would be more in print somewhere? There just is only a few crazies like us.


----------



## Lookout57

Redcarmoose said:


> Right, because the TA will show the bit-rate in the window. But after your using the Cradle there is not much more you can do, aside from simply buying a DMP-Z1, which is what https://www.head-fi.org/members/whitigir.378966/ did.


If you set the TA to display format and turn off DSD Remastering it will show the sampling frequency and bit depth of the input signal as PCM384kHz/32 bit for either port. So does this mean that TA is automatically upsampling the input source?

With DSD Remastering on it shows the sampling frequency and bit depth of the input signal as DSD12.2 MHz/ 1bit which makes sense since it is upsampling the PCM to DSD.


----------



## nc8000

Redcarmoose said:


> That would be interesting as to which would be better sounding. I only have 400GB, a 250GB, a 125GB and a 16GB card around. I could always use more storage. But that thing is getting closer to a computer, which is what I was trying to get away from. I have multi TBs off the computers I have with external drives, but they simply don’t sound the same. And you control that with a computer yes? That’s the thing, I really enjoy everything the Walkmans do. I like using the Walkman interface for the TA.



When you get right down to it the WM is also a computer, just one that is very specialized for portable sound. The Auralic is also a computer specialized for sound. You control it over wifi from an app on an iPhone or iPad. I also have the upgraded power supply for it


----------



## bflat

For optimal performance from a USB output of PC or Mac, you need a low noise or galvanically isolated USB port and bit perfect audio player like Foobar, JRiver, or Audirvana. Also specific to each platform:

Mac - your audio player should support Core Audio which is the API built into Mac OS for bit perfect playback.
PC - your device should have an ASIO driver for bit perfect playback.

I would not be surprised if WM Port digital out and proprietary OS is bit perfect whereas most Android devices are not. Like most things, the less you mess with a digital signal, the better it will sound.


----------



## candlejack

bflat said:


> For optimal performance from a USB output of PC or Mac, you need a low noise or galvanically isolated USB port and bit perfect audio player like Foobar, JRiver, or Audirvana. Also specific to each platform:
> 
> Mac - your audio player should support Core Audio which is the API built into Mac OS for bit perfect playback.
> PC - your device should have an ASIO driver for bit perfect playback.
> ...


Can you please explain what a low noise or galvanically isolated USB port means and how can you identify such a port?


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## bflat (Mar 31, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Can you please explain what a low noise or galvanically isolated USB port means and how can you identify such a port?



You generally get basic USB ports with your PC/Mac so there are a number of USB to USB devices that clean up the power and signals. They generally fall into a few categories:

1) Passive noise suppression - an example is like AQ Jitterbug or iFi iSilencer. These devices just add passive components in the signal path to reduce noise. The devices do not need a power supply since they are passive.

2) Active noise suppression - this is a step up from passive and example is iFi iUSB line of products. They replace the power from the PC/Mac with a low noise external power supply. These have similar passive noise suppression with the data lines as #1, but some also have re-clocking circuitry to lower jitter.

3) Galvanic isolation - this is the highest form of noise suppression as the data signals between PC/Mac and your DAC are electrically isolated so no noise is passed from PC/Mac to your DAC. Intona and iFi are examples.

The price goes up in the same order. As far as TA goes, I could not get iFi iGalvanic to work so I went with a Matrix Element H for my PC and a AQ Coffee USB cable and it sounds great to my ears. Many however would argue that COAX is superior to USB but that would require a USB to coax converter which sort of defeats the purpose IMHO unless you get a really high end digital to digital converter. You are also limited to 192 kHz with coax unless you go with Chord products.


----------



## candlejack

bflat said:


> You generally get basic USB ports with your PC/Mac so there are a number of USB to USB devices that clean up the power and signals. They generally fall into a few categories:
> 
> 1) Passive noise suppression - an example is like AQ Jitterbug or iFi iSilencer. These devices just add passive components in the signal path to reduce noise. The devices do not need a power supply since they are passive.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the comprehensive answer. 

As far as reducing noise on the power lines, I get it, although, in the case of audio devices, I don't know of any audio source that runs directly off of USB power. So, unless you are actively charging your unit's battery as you listen and the noise on the 5V line somehow causes audible artifacts, I see no impact of USB power isolation on the device, let alone its music output.

But more importantly, when it comes to the digital data transmission: data integrity is protected via CRC and jitter is irrelevant because of buffering by the receiver (unless the jitter is so severe that it causes your player to stutter, but in that case no additional in-line component can speed up the transmission to save you).

That means that as far as I can tell, these products are completely useless in the case of PC-to-DAC USB communication, as long as the DAC is not using the USB power supplied by the PC. Am I missing something?


----------



## Fsilva

nc8000 said:


> Instead of using the WM as source for the TA I went with the Auralic Aries Mini as I can put any size standard 3.5 or 2.5 hdd or ssd in that for much higher capacity. It also acts as a Spotify and Tidal client including mqa support and has a very good app for control (iPhone and iPad only)


I went the same way as @nc8000 and bought an Aries mini that i used connected to the TA, audio quality was much better that when i used the TA with the iMac, as for the cradle i´d bought it from @nc8000  and sold it after a couple of weeks.

@candlejack hope you enjoy your new TA very soon!!!


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## bflat (Mar 31, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Thank you for the comprehensive answer.
> 
> As far as reducing noise on the power lines, I get it, although, in the case of audio devices, I don't know of any audio source that runs directly off of USB power. So, unless you are actively charging your unit's battery as you listen and the noise on the 5V line somehow causes audible artifacts, I see no impact of USB power isolation on the device, let alone its music output.
> 
> ...



Certainly the overall benefit of "clean" digital data is a major topic of debate. My own personal view was data is data until I saw Schiit making a big deal on adding galvanic isolation to their USB modules. I've always thought of them as no nonsense, no snake oil type of audio maker. However, there are a couple technical points:

1) CRC does indeed flag data blocks for errors, but audio streams are unable to correct those affected blocks because there is no resending of data blocks. You either get to hear the incorrect data or in most cases, it's simply dropped. Professional mixing DACs have a CRC error light that comes on to notify the audio technician even if they don't hear it.

2) Yes, if DAC USB doesn't need power, there is probably no benefit to clean power. However, I have tried to run TA without USB power since my Element H has a switch for that and when I disconnect USB power, my PC will not detect the TA. I also couldn't get iGalvanic working either. It would detect and give me several seconds of static when playing any stream at any sampling rate. Definitely something not compatible since my iGalvanic works with everything else I have. Lastly, how do I hear static when digital should be perfect sound or no sound?

3) I assume jitter is pretty horrendous out of a general USB port on a PC since no PC maker I know of optimizes USB for audio streaming. Adding a reclocker to an already bad USB port probably does nothing. That's why I decided to go with a separate USB card with a high end USB controller with a femto clock and EMI shielding to make sure my source was as clean and accurate as possible. I then added a high end USB cable to make sure the signal makes the 2M trip without any external EMI. On that note, I live so close to an AM radio tower I can hear the transmission on my AC power lines LOL.  I have neither the skill or equipment to measure jitter so I may have just wasted $250. But for sure, I don't hear AM radio on the TA. And yes, I've heard AM radio on cheaper amps plugged into my house power.

Does any of this make a difference? Well even if it's 1% I think everyone has their own limit to what they want to spend to get that extra percent. It's worth it to me just to keep my OCD in check.


----------



## Whitigir

A human and a monkey DNA is 1% differences.  Look at the differences ?


----------



## bflat

Whitigir said:


> A human and a monkey DNA is 1% differences.  Look at the differences ?



Dammit! That explains why I like bananas...


----------



## candlejack

bflat said:


> Certainly the overall benefit of "clean" digital data is a major topic of debate. My own personal view was data is data until I saw Schiit making a big deal on adding galvanic isolation to their USB modules. I've always thought of them as no nonsense, no snake oil type of audio maker. However, there are a couple technical points:
> 
> 1) CRC does indeed flag data blocks for errors, but audio streams are unable to correct those affected blocks because *there is no resending of data blocks*. You either get to hear the incorrect data or in most cases, it's simply dropped. Professional mixing DACs have a CRC error light that comes on to notify the audio technician even if they don't hear it.
> 
> ...


I'm not judging, just trying to make sense of it.

Most of what you're saying I can understand and agree with, but something stood out (I marked in bold in the quote above). Where did you get the information that USB doesn't resend when used for audio streams? I've never worked with USB for any application, let alone audio, but have experience with other communications protocols, and after reading the relevant part of the Wiki article on USB (Communications), it seemed quite clear that the sender re-transmits a packet that was not acknowledged until it receives the appropriate acknowledgement from the receiver. 
... 
I was about to hit reply, but I had this strange felling that I was missing something obvious. So I did a bit more research and my feeling was confirmed. This more generic Wiki article on USB has a section on Audio Streaming and it looks like I need to do some reading about UAC before I continue typing. It's late here, so I'll have to leave this for tomorrow. Thanks for the thoughtful reply on what is an unnecessarily touchy subject.


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> I'm not judging, just trying to make sense of it.
> 
> Most of what you're saying I can understand and agree with, but something stood out (I marked in bold in the quote above). Where did you get the information that USB doesn't resend when used for audio streams? I've never worked with USB for any application, let alone audio, but have experience with other communications protocols, and after reading the relevant part of the Wiki article on USB (Communications), it seemed quite clear that the sender re-transmits a packet that was not acknowledged until it receives the appropriate acknowledgement from the receiver.
> ...
> I was about to hit reply, but I had this strange felling that I was missing something obvious. So I did a bit more research and my feeling was confirmed. This more generic Wiki article on USB has a section on Audio Streaming and it looks like I need to do some reading about UAC before I continue typing. It's late here, so I'll have to leave this for tomorrow. Thanks for the thoughtful reply on what is an unnecessarily touchy subject.



An audio connection can’t resend for as long as it wants or you would get pauses in the audio. Also I’m not aware of any significant (if any at all) buffering or you would get a significant delay between pressing play and music actually playing


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## candlejack (Apr 1, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> An audio connection can’t resend for as long as it wants or you would get pauses in the audio. Also I’m not aware of any significant (if any at all) buffering or you would get a significant delay between pressing play and music actually playing


Again, I need to do some more reading, but assuming a data payload of 1024 bytes, that would roughly equate to 1.5 ms of playback if the source file was PCM 44.1/16. Buffering 100 packets at the cost of a maximum of 150 ms of delay at the start would be fairly unnoticeable, I suspect. This would imply that the Tx speed is faster than the Rx speed to allow refilling a lost packet along the way and also that Rx is able to ask Tx to pause and resume transmission regularly, instead of negotiating a Tx rate at the beginning and just rolling with that.
This post is not very useful, though, as it might have nothing to do with the reality of audio streaming over USB, just throwing some hypotheticals (which might be flawed as well). But I'm really excited about reading more on the subject today. If anyone has a good link (*not* from an audiphile website) on UAC (or USB audio streaming), please share it on the forum or in a PM. Thanks!


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## candlejack (Apr 2, 2020)

Time to atone for my sins.

Previously I wrote:


candlejack said:


> But more importantly, when it comes to the digital data transmission: data integrity is protected via CRC and jitter is irrelevant because of buffering by the receiver (unless the jitter is so severe that it causes your player to stutter, but in that case no additional in-line component can speed up the transmission to save you).
> 
> That means that as far as I can tell, these products are completely useless in the case of PC-to-DAC USB communication, as long as the DAC is not using the USB power supplied by the PC. Am I missing something?


Yes, I was missing quite a bit.

The USB protocol supports different types of communication. I was only considering _"Bulk"_ (transfer files between your DAP and PC) and _"Control"_ (allows to host and USB device to exchange config info and co-ordinate their actions), and I suppose if you had put a gun to my head I could've figured out that _"Interrupt"_ (keyboard and mouse) also had to exist. But I had no idea about _"Isochronous"_, which is the type used to stream data from the PC to a DAC. In my mind, streaming was also using Bulk, with a few bells and whistles thrown in to ensure the "real-time" aspect of the communication. Bulk indeed supports packet retransmission in case of data error or packet loss, but Isochronous does not. Pretty important difference.

So @bflat had a much clearer picture when he wrote (I wanted to trim the message, but it's worth repeating in its entirety):


bflat said:


> Certainly the overall benefit of "clean" digital data is a major topic of debate. My own personal view was data is data until I saw Schiit making a big deal on adding galvanic isolation to their USB modules. I've always thought of them as no nonsense, no snake oil type of audio maker. However, there are a couple technical points:
> 
> 1) CRC does indeed flag data blocks for errors, but audio streams are unable to correct those affected blocks because there is no resending of data blocks. You either get to hear the incorrect data or in most cases, it's simply dropped. Professional mixing DACs have a CRC error light that comes on to notify the audio technician even if they don't hear it.
> 
> ...


I still have not seen any article discussing what the failure rate is in USB audio transmissions from different types of USB source equipment (still need to look into USB Audio Device Classes), so I have no idea how big the problem is and if it needs fixing (like advertised by these high cost, dedicated USB components). But one thing is clear to me now: it is not ridiculous to be interested/concerned about the quality of your USB DAC connection. Some jitter might be easily offset by buffering, but data corruption is unrecoverable.

From the official USB 2.0 Specification:
_"The timely delivery of isochronous data is ensured at the expense of potential transient losses in the data stream. In other words, any error in electrical transmission is not corrected by hardware mechanisms such as retries. In practice, the core bit error rate of the USB is expected to be small enough not to be an issue. USB isochronous data streams are allocated a dedicated portion of USB bandwidth to ensure that data can be delivered at the desired rate. The USB is also designed for minimal delay of isochronous data transfers."_


----------



## audionewbi

The recent walkman FW mode made me think if it would be possible to mode the FPGA DSP processing of TA, buy a AC power bank an get it use it as a poors man DMP-Z1


----------



## candlejack

audionewbi said:


> The recent walkman FW mode made me think if it would be possible to mode the FPGA DSP processing of TA, buy a AC power bank an get it use it as a poors man DMP-Z1


But don't you have to replace internal cables and capacitors as well?


----------



## audionewbi

candlejack said:


> But don't you have to replace internal cables and capacitors as well?


If it get me close to the sound, I'm okay


----------



## candlejack

audionewbi said:


> If it get me close to the sound, I'm okay


You might be better off just buying the DMP-Z1 at that point. If you do, let us know how it compares.


----------



## Damz87

candlejack said:


> You might be better off just buying the DMP-Z1 at that point. If you do, let us know how it compares.



Honestly the TA sounds fairly close to the DMP in my opinion. The TA has a slightly smoother/mellow sound and narrower soundstage. The DMP also has a blacker background and the DSD remastering sounds more natural. But other than that, they are quite similar sounding. 

Unless you specifically need a transportable dac/amp player, the DMP isn’t worth the 3x price difference.


----------



## Rob49

Damz87 said:


> Honestly the TA sounds fairly close to the DMP in my opinion. The TA has a slightly smoother/mellow sound and narrower soundstage. The DMP also has a blacker background and the DSD remastering sounds more natural. But other than that, they are quite similar sounding.
> 
> Unless you specifically need a transportable dac/amp player, the DMP isn’t worth the 3x price difference.



Was this just an audition ?? I have the TA, which i love, but constantly thinking of buying the DMP-Z1, but as i've posted before, put off by the cost....but i think EVERY owner on here has done nothing but rave about it...


----------



## candlejack

Rob49 said:


> Was this just an audition ?? I have the TA, which i love, but constantly thinking of buying the DMP-Z1, but as i've posted before, put off by the cost....but i think EVERY owner on here has done nothing but rave about it...


Dude, check the signature, it lists his inventory.


----------



## Rob49

candlejack said:


> Dude, check the signature, it lists his inventory.



Never thought about that, of course ! LOL


----------



## Damz87

Rob49 said:


> Was this just an audition ?? I have the TA, which i love, but constantly thinking of buying the DMP-Z1, but as i've posted before, put off by the cost....but i think EVERY owner on here has done nothing but rave about it...



I own both. Don’t get me wrong, the DMP is great, it’s easily the best player I have heard. But is it worth paying that much for the improvements? I guess that depends on how much you value that extra little bit of performance. 

I’m just trying to reassure anyone that’s curious, that their TA is still an excellent device and a better value option


----------



## candlejack

Damz87 said:


> I’m just trying to reassure anyone that’s curious, that their TA is still an excellent device and a better value option


Staying grounded... bravo!


----------



## Damz87

candlejack said:


> Staying grounded... bravo!



I’m just trying to be a voice of reason to help people like myself that suffer from FOMO 

Unfortunately there’s a lot of people on the internet that have a tendency to overstate and hype up their purchases. Maybe to justify to themselves for the crazy amount of money they have just spent. Or maybe I don’t have golden ears. I like to simply enjoy my music as best as I can and not overthink it too much.

The DMP is great if you want something like the TA that is transportable and a slightly improved sound. But you lose the multiple inputs and outputs. Not worth $8k in my opinion.


----------



## Rob49 (Apr 5, 2020)

Damz87 said:


> I own both. Don’t get me wrong, the DMP is great, it’s easily the best player I have heard. But is it worth paying that much for the improvements? I guess that depends on how much you value that extra little bit of performance.
> 
> I’m just trying to reassure anyone that’s curious, that their TA is still an excellent device and a better value option



Thanks.....it is a huge investment !.....you spend that money on a car....which is absolutely crazy !!! I can't audition one, so i hope my sensible head wins out in the end....but knowing moi !! ?? LOL

( Still trying to work out FOMO ??....but haven't thought too hard !! LOL )


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 5, 2020)

Damz87 said:


> I’m just trying to be a voice of reason to help people like myself that suffer from FOMO
> 
> Unfortunately there’s a lot of people on the internet that have a tendency to overstate and hype up their purchases. Maybe to justify to themselves for the crazy amount of money they have just spent. Or maybe I don’t have golden ears. I like to simply enjoy my music as best as I can and not overthink it too much.
> 
> The DMP is great if you want something like the TA that is transportable and a slightly improved sound. But you lose the multiple inputs and outputs. Not worth $8k in my opinion.



I’ve never heard the DMP-Z1....but have spent that same amount on various purchases every year, for a couple years........at times years on end. All I can say is it’s better I’m sure but what 10-15% better than the TA? 30% better? You pay for those improvements and they are at the point of diminishing returns. But they are real improvements and there for sure. It’s just how much value are they? It’s all relevant.

The problem is the curiosity. The not knowing what it sounds like and how much better that small amount is. Humans have this natural ability to find paths for improvements in all kinds of areas. We always spend money in places where improvements in life can be found. I like this post also because it is grounded. Grounded on a forum full of hysteria!


----------



## bflat

On a positive view, you can rest assured that a "upgrade" version of DMP-Z1 will not come out for many years or ever. I have yet to see a used one for sale so that's saying something.


----------



## Rob49

bflat said:


> On a positive view, you can rest assured that a "upgrade" version of DMP-Z1 will not come out for many years or ever. I have yet to see a used one for sale so that's saying something.



You have to factor in the cost though, for such an expensive item. What price would you ask if you were to sell ?? What would any owners want back ?? This is the kind of item you buy new, you wouldn't spend thousand's on used.


----------



## bflat

Rob49 said:


> You have to factor in the cost though, for such an expensive item. What price would you ask if you were to sell ?? What would any owners want back ?? This is the kind of item you buy new, you wouldn't spend thousand's on used.



Using Chord Dave as benchmark - it sells new at around $11-12K and sells used on Headfi classified for around $7500. There is one usually for sale every month or 2.


----------



## Rob49

bflat said:


> Using Chord Dave as benchmark - it sells new at around $11-12K and sells used on Headfi classified for around $7500. There is one usually for sale every month or 2.



That's interesting to know.....but until DMP owners decide to sell,  ( If they ever will ! ?? ) we can't really judge the price of used. It's clear when you pay so much for an item, you treat it so carefully ! As i said, personally i would not pay for used, for such an expensive item....if i ever buy one it will be new.


----------



## Whitigir

The DMP Z1 is built uniquely different than TA.  For all that said, the way how each person perceive the value in price/performances/practicality are different from one another.

Let’s put TA for example.  You will need a good USB cables and you will also need a good digital sources.  You could have (Walkman, usb cables, TA).  Then you can see the cost is no longer just 2K for TA, but rather $4,000 in case of WM1A.  The only thing you can bring on the go would be your Walkman and not your TA.  Where as DMP Z1, you need nothing else and you can still bring it on the go with you.

Both TA and DMP have superb built quality for hardware wise, but I would say the DMP Z1 has a much more exotic built because the volume attenuation is Analog RK501, and TA is digital

the TA has built in PSU which is as good as it can go, where as DMP is on Battery and or External Power Supply of choices .  So there is more room to improvements there.

Before the time when DMP was a reality, many people dreamed for such device.  Likely they all have purchased it.  But I can see why people would be waging their options here as I did before.

I have a curse that I can tell the differences easily , and I keep saying that it is not good....it heavily take a toll on my and my pockets.  Once I hear the differences, I can not unheard it....and it happens so much that I hate it.  The DMP Z1 is much better than TA in a sense that if you take cables differences which could cost multiple thousands. Then the DMP Z1 differences is even more than that.  But then again, even with this point of view, we all perceive the values in a different way.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 5, 2020)

Now, if you have experienced with digital interfaces, and dedicated enough to seek for high performances digital audio, then You have already known that USB is no where near good of an interfaces VS straight I2S.

By using TA, you are using USB as an interface, even with Walkman as a source and using the same in house Sony Chip.  However, on DMP Z1, this chip can communicate directly without additional Interfaces such as USB.  This is yet another quality step to improve your end performances

DMP with 1.5W per channel out of balanced is very powerful.  Some people love it the way it is, and some people would love to see a line out on it.  But many people who love it for what it is, just take it for what it is


----------



## nc8000

I would love to buy the DMP but there is absolutely no way I can afford to do so


----------



## Whitigir

nc8000 said:


> I would love to buy the DMP but there is absolutely no way I can afford to do so


Yes, that is understandable given it pricing , but from my experiences, anyone who loves Sony and everything Audio, especially full-size headphones, and can afford one, don’t hesitate.  Not to mention firmware improvements .  Talk about used unit, I have seen it floating about 6k


----------



## Damz87

For you American folks, you could buy a brand new one from here in Australia for AUD $8,600 which works out to about USD $5,150 with our weak currency. But you’d have to use a mail forwarding service.

https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/sony-dmp-z1r-high-end-digital-audio-player


----------



## Whitigir

Damz87 said:


> For you American folks, you could buy a brand new one from here in Australia for AUD $8,600 which works out to about USD $5,150 with our weak currency. But you’d have to use a mail forwarding service.
> 
> https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/sony-dmp-z1r-high-end-digital-audio-player


That is amazing price!!!! That guy probably is selling it at a losses.  The warranty period is only 1 year or 12 months anyways.  For that much saving, I would buy it in a heart beat


----------



## candlejack

Heavy.. metal..


----------



## candlejack

Let the games begin..


----------



## candlejack

candlejack said:


> Let the games begin..



Initial and rash impressions: I love how my HD600 sounds. Whether it sounds any different compared to the PC will be tested later, but so far, I'm enjoying what I'm hearing. 

Downloaded the Sony app for playing music from the PC (quickly tried VLC and didn't like how volume actually had an effect on the output) and currently enjoying some Genesis.


----------



## candlejack (Apr 6, 2020)

A short and easy to digest article about the impact of USB data streaming in audio: http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5971.


----------



## bflat

candlejack said:


> A short and easy to digest article about the impact of USB data streaming in audio: http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5971.



Interesting. I wonder what sample rate the author was talking about. I can see where 96/24 would be less prone to hear effects from errors while lower rates would be more audible. I also don't know what causes the intermittent static sounds I've experienced when trying iGalvanic or other times in the past when I used really cheap USB cables for higher sampling rates. Every DAC I've owned has featured asynchronous USB input too.


----------



## Fsilva

candlejack said:


> Initial and rash impressions: I love how my HD600 sounds. Whether it sounds any different compared to the PC will be tested later, but so far, I'm enjoying what I'm hearing.
> 
> Downloaded the Sony app for playing music from the PC (quickly tried VLC and didn't like how volume actually had an effect on the output) and currently enjoying some Genesis.


For the best audio experience i would suggest to use either Audirvana + or JM river, or even HQ Player, i used Jriver while using the TA with my iMac.


----------



## Lookout57

I use Audirvana on my Mac mini connected to a Benchmark DAC2 HGC.


----------



## candlejack

Thank you for the suggestion. Will see how much I end up using the PC. All of my music is already on the ZX300.


----------



## candlejack

Finally plugged in the IER-Z1R in 4.4 and played some Johnny Cash. Loving what I'm hearing. But I have a tendency to pump up the volume more when listening to the TA so that might be why I'm enjoying it an amount that might be higher than the ZX300 alone.

Super busy these days (and wasting a lot of time in the wm1a thread) so haven't done any controlled testing. But I'm looking forward to it. 

Edit: Ok, couldn't resist and did a bit of swapping back and forth between ZX300 and ZX300+TA and... they sound pretty much the same to me. But maybe my enjoyment was enhanced by seeing the TA looking pretty on my desk. That counts for something, right?!


----------



## Damz87

candlejack said:


> Finally plugged in the IER-Z1R in 4.4 and played some Johnny Cash. Loving what I'm hearing. But I have a tendency to pump up the volume more when listening to the TA so that might be why I'm enjoying it an amount that might be higher than the ZX300 alone.
> 
> Super busy these days (and wasting a lot of time in the wm1a thread) so haven't done any controlled testing. But I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> Edit: Ok, couldn't resist and did a bit of swapping back and forth between ZX300 and ZX300+TA and... they sound pretty much the same to me. But maybe my enjoyment was enhanced by seeing the TA looking pretty on my desk. That counts for something, right?!



Out of curiosity, what volume are you listening at?


----------



## candlejack

Damz87 said:


> Out of curiosity, what volume are you listening at?


For this "test" it was fairly loud.

TA: High Gain -40dB
ZX300: High Gain 60

Sounded decently well matched for volume. Maybe the ZX300 was a tiny bit quieter.


----------



## Damz87

Okay yeah, that's about the same volume I use when doing "louder" listening (between -30db and -35db low gain)

For me, the most obvious sonic difference between the TA and the WM1Z is the sound staging. I find the TA not quite as wide as the 1Z but taller and deeper. Also on some bass heavy tracks, I sometimes find that the TA has a little more bass definition and clarity.


----------



## Imusicman

Mac + Jriver + curious usb cable + TA + Empyreans 4.4 balanced

Sounding excellent to me


----------



## Imusicman

Guys, 

Thinking about trying out some speakers with the TA

Any recommendations please?


----------



## Redcarmoose

candlejack said:


> For this "test" it was fairly loud.
> 
> TA: High Gain -40dB
> ZX300: High Gain 60
> ...



Sounds like the ZX300 didn’t work with the side Walkman port and supplied cable?


----------



## Damz87

Imusicman said:


> Guys,
> 
> Thinking about trying out some speakers with the TA
> 
> Any recommendations please?


I don’t know much about what’s out there in terms of speakers, but I’m very happy with my Audioengine HD6’s and S8 subwoofer with the TA.


----------



## candlejack

Damz87 said:


> Okay yeah, that's about the same volume I use when doing "louder" listening (between -30db and -35db low gain)
> 
> For me, the most obvious sonic difference between the TA and the WM1Z is the sound staging. I find the TA not quite as wide as the 1Z but taller and deeper. Also on some bass heavy tracks, I sometimes find that the TA has a little more bass definition and clarity.


Didn't really pick up anything in staging, but before A/B'ing, I also thought that perhaps the bass was a bit different on the TA than I was used to hearing. Couldn't confirm it in my quick A/B though. It could've just been the volume bias again. Will definitely try again when I have some time and feel like I'm _in the zone_, if you know what I'm talking about. 

Still, what I take from this quick test is that to my ears there is no obvious difference between the two sources, with the IER-Z1R (an obvious difference would be _obvious_).


Redcarmoose said:


> Sounds like the ZX300 didn’t work with the side Walkman port and supplied cable?


Actually it did, no problems. See the picture in this previous post:


candlejack said:


> Let the games begin..


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 8, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Didn't really pick up anything in staging, but before A/B'ing, I also thought that perhaps the bass was a bit different on the TA than I was used to hearing. Couldn't confirm it in my quick A/B though. It could've just been the volume bias again. Will definitely try again when I have some time and feel like I'm _in the zone_, if you know what I'm talking about.
> 
> Still, what I take from this quick test is that to my ears there is no obvious difference between the two sources, with the IER-Z1R (an obvious difference would be _obvious_).
> 
> Actually it did, no problems. See the picture in this previous post:



That’s so cool. It’s funny as you never read about people doing that (mixing the TA/ZX300).

That’s amazing though that the two players; the TA and ZX300 sound the same to you with the IER-Z1R. Though everyone is different.

Though you should spend time and make sure your truly adjusted to the TA sound, that your not missing anything. In contrast from my 1Z or 1A the TA offers slightly better imaging and deeper backgrounds? Maybe the thickness that was just pointed out in the last post? But the TA is better on most all levels. Even notes have a clear definition over the portables. I notice this and I’m sure I don’t have the greatest hearing. Headphone use heavy since the early eighties and concerts have taken their toll.

Cheers! Hope you enjoy it! There will be more difference with the MDR-Z1R. The TA has to be a new experience with your HD600? It’s probably always going to be a bigger difference with full-size. IMO

The other part of this equation is higher bit-rate files. I seem to notice better improvements from equipment I’m testing with 24bit files. If it’s psychological or what; I don’t know but higher rates show the capabilities of gear to me?

Did you verify your TA is on 1.03 firmware? Also are you keeping the DSD remastering engine engaged?


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 8, 2020)

Not everyone has the same capabilities @Redcarmoose

if everyone was the same, then each one of us would have been Einstein already

it amazes me that people even get involved in a hobby which bring no joys for them, but instead going around bragging about their incompetences as they are proud of it


----------



## Lookout57

Imusicman said:


> Guys,
> 
> Thinking about trying out some speakers with the TA
> 
> Any recommendations please?


I use a WM1A in the Sony dock, Audioquest Carbon USB to TA with the Audioengine A5+ Powered Speaker and S8 Subwoofer in my office.


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> That’s so cool. It’s funny as you never read about people doing that (mixing the TA/ZX300).
> 
> That’s amazing though that the two players; the TA and ZX300 sound the same to you with the IER-Z1R. Though everyone is different.
> 
> ...


I think you're right. No proper test yet, but I don't recall the HD600 sounding this good before. If nothing else, the TA will be a nice experiment in "audiophile psychology".  

FW is v1.0.3. I think it arrived with 1.0.3 already but I re-flashed it because it was not clear from the updater menu if the version it was displaying was the loaded version or the target version. I'll play around with file formats and bit rates, but I don't have a ton of DSD and I think almost all of my hi-res PCM are from ripped vinyl, so not expecting any extra detail there (also a bit deflated about hi-rez in general after watching this: Hi-Rez Music Is A Lie).


----------



## candlejack

Whitigir said:


> Not everyone has the same capabilities @Redcarmoose
> 
> if everyone was the same, then each one of us would have been Einstein already


@Whitigir dropping knowledge.


Whitigir said:


> it amazes me that people even get involved in a hobby which bring no joys for them, but instead going around bragging about their incompetences as they are proud of it


Still salty, I see.


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Imusicman said:


> Guys,
> 
> Thinking about trying out some speakers with the TA
> 
> Any recommendations please?



I use some KEF LS50W hooked up to the TA via aux and it sounds wonderful.  Even though the kef's have their own dac, you can def hear the TA sound and warmness


----------



## Whitigir

Is KEF worth it ? Or should I wait for SA Z1


----------



## Sp12er3 (Apr 9, 2020)

wait what? are you also picking up he SA-Z1?
maybe with WFH being the standard even after the pandemic subsides, speaker sales would go up, near field especially, knowing it take less space (the SA is even better as it need just one cable to connect to the source) for a small dedicated office desk at home.


----------



## Whitigir

Sp12er3 said:


> wait what? are you also picking up he SA-Z1?
> maybe with WFH being the standard even after the pandemic subsides, speaker sales would go up, near field especially, knowing it take less space (the SA is even better as it need just one cable to connect to the source) for a small dedicated office desk at home.


I am only thinking about it for now .  But there is no any information around to be found


----------



## cosplayerkyo

The ls50w's are very worth imo.  They are pretty bright but they sound incredible for its price point.  I would love to hear the SA-Z1 whenever that comes out though


----------



## Tawek

Damz87 said:


> Okay yeah, that's about the same volume I use when doing "louder" listening (between -30db and -35db low gain)
> 
> For me, the most obvious sonic difference between the TA and the WM1Z is the sound staging. I find the TA not quite as wide as the 1Z but taller and deeper. Also on some bass heavy tracks, I sometimes find that the TA has a little more bass definition and clarity.


Hi
try Wm1z 3.02 firmware, E2 region / ex1000
you will be surprised how huge the soundstage is in height and depth


----------



## candlejack (Apr 11, 2020)

I've done some more A/B'ing between the ZX300 and the TA and I think I might have spotted a couple of differences with the IER-Z1R: *bass *and *air*.

The bass on the ZX300 appears flatter in comparison (with more detail in the midbass), while the TA has an emphasis on the sub-bass region (which might not go well with the already sub-bass focused IER-Z1R). The TA has more air, notes and instruments seem better separated and thus clearer.

However, I'm still not sure to what extent these impressions match reality. For me the differences are still very small, but for some reason I'm really enjoying the TA... so much so that I find myself wondering: _is this the best sound I've heard to date_? And then I start A/B'ing and find that the ZX300 sounds (almost) equally as good. So, it seems I haven't made much headway in determining if the TA is "better" than the ZX300 (my enjoyment could still be due to the higher listening volume I tend to use on the TA, or just the psychological effect of seeing this beautiful device on my table), but one thing I know is I'm having fun so far (just as the gods intended).


----------



## candlejack

Quick question guys:
Is the SE output of the TA more powerful than the Bal? 
Or is my HD600 4.4-mm _"upgrade-cable"_ (Aliexpress / 25 Euro) so crap that it makes about 8 dBs just vanish?


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> Quick question guys:
> Is the SE output of the TA more powerful than the Bal?
> Or is my HD600 4.4-mm _"upgrade-cable"_ (Aliexpress / 25 Euro) so crap that it makes about 8 dBs just vanish?



Balanced is 1200mw, single ended 300mw so balanced has 4 times as much power


----------



## candlejack

nc8000 said:


> Balanced is 1200mw, single ended 300mw so balanced has 4 times as much power


I was about to start arguing with you, but opened Sony.com and those are indeed the official specs. The power rating is given for a 32 Ohm load only, though. The HD600 are 300 Ohm, but what the hell?! Unless the cable is broken, you would still expect Bal to get louder than SE, even with a 300 Ohm load, not 8 dB quieter. 

Does anyone here have high impedance headphones that they can test with both Balanced and SE?


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> I was about to start arguing with you, but opened Sony.com and those are indeed the official specs. The power rating is given for a 32 Ohm load only, though. The HD600 are 300 Ohm, but what the hell?! Unless the cable is broken, you would still expect Bal to get louder than SE, even with a 300 Ohm load, not 8 dB quieter.
> 
> Does anyone here have high impedance headphones that they can test with both Balanced and SE?



I honestly don't know, I've only ever used the 4.4 balanced on both the TA and 1Z, never any of the other outputs


----------



## candlejack

nc8000 said:


> I honestly don't know, I've only ever used the 4.4 balanced on both the TA and 1Z, never any of the other outputs


Yeah, and also your headphones are 40 and 64 Ohms I think, so you wouldn't be able to test this even if you used the other terminations. 

But if the TA loses a lot of power on Bal with increased headphone impedance, then that might explain why Joshua Valour (YouTube reviewer) found it very underpowered, especially if he was using the Balanced output.


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> Yeah, and also your headphones are 40 and 64 Ohms I think, so you wouldn't be able to test this even if you used the other terminations.
> 
> But if the TA loses a lot of power on Bal with increased headphone impedance, then that might explain why Joshua Valour (YouTube reviewer) found it very underpowered, especially if he was using the Balanced output.



I would find it very strange if balanced had less effective power than single ended but on the other hand I can't see how a cable could be defective so as to cause this but still play.  My technical knowledge is not at a level where I could speculate as to reasons for your experience


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 18, 2020)

candlejack said:


> I was about to start arguing with you, but opened Sony.com and those are indeed the official specs. The power rating is given for a 32 Ohm load only, though. The HD600 are 300 Ohm, but what the hell?! Unless the cable is broken, you would still expect Bal to get louder than SE, even with a 300 Ohm load, not 8 dB quieter.
> 
> Does anyone here have high impedance headphones that they can test with both Balanced and SE?



I tried the MDR-Z1R (1Z in cradle as digital source) with the included cables with both 4.4mm balanced and single-ended (3.5mm adapter) with the TA at -12.0dB and yes, surprisingly enough single ended IS louder. Lol.

Edit:
Gain set at low. 

The TA is not really considered a loud and powerful headphone amp. It absolutely can not drive my AKG k701 headphones. But for using the MDR-Z1R, the MDR-Z7 or any IEM it’s perfect. It’s great with Sony headphones, but really hard to drive headphones need something else. I did watch that review and the only issue he had was the power output didn’t make amplifier “well rounded”. Meaning it does not work with a super wide variety of headphones due to the power output.  

But he liked everything else a lot, thought it made his MDR-Z1R sound fantastic. He liked the build and features but said the power output was his only issue. If you only have the MDR-Z1R it doesn’t matter. In fact it’s maybe best for my personal use being it drives the Sony headphones as well as my IEMs really well. The only headphone in my collection it has issues with is the AKG k701......so I couldn’t be happier.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 18, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Yeah, and also your headphones are 40 and 64 Ohms I think, so you wouldn't be able to test this even if you used the other terminations.
> 
> But if the TA loses a lot of power on Bal with increased headphone impedance, then that might explain why Joshua Valour (YouTube reviewer) found it very underpowered, especially if he was using the Balanced output.



Still depending on the headphones, you should notice a very small but real improvement using 4.4mm. I would definitely try the 4.4mm cable if I had those Sennheisers. There is also a way to use the XLR4 balanced with an adapter. They have these XLR4 to 4.4mm adapters but they are hard to find. But? I would not be surprised if the XLR4 was the balanced output that was “more”?  

Do the Sony specifications say XLR4 or 4.4mm or simply balanced; as the amplifier has two balanced connections. 

 I’ve never used XLR4 output and have no real need other than a curiosity. Lol

Another route would be to simply get an XLR4 cable for your Sennheisers. Then you would also know if XLR4 was truly louder than single-ended.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 18, 2020)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx9bOYEjkevIDYONBAstK-A


Joshua Valour does recommend the amp in one certain situation.

He is basically making a point that if your headphone buying trajectory was uncertain that the power output could become an issue not being able to power the possible unknown future purchase. He also says that if you were basically retired away from new purchases......and that the amp did power what you already had in your collection........that you would be fine with it. In fact that’s the only way he could recommend it.


----------



## candlejack (Apr 18, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx9bOYEjkevIDYONBAstK-A
> 
> 
> Joshua Valour does recommend the amp in one certain situation.
> ...


Yeah, I watched his video a couple of times (I'm subscribed) and that didn't deter me from getting the TA. In fact, it helped with the decision.


----------



## freeza2001

he is one of my favor headphone reviewer along side the HEADPHONE show...but i found his zh1es review almost useless......

For the entire run time hes spend 70% of the time talking about the build and function....20% of the time complain about how underpower the dac/amp is....he didnt not explain the sound signature or describe the sonic difference between the sony and other amps....

and he said he is maxing out volume with arya on this amp which i found almost impossible....im using my arya at -33db on high gain with 4.4 balance and its quite loud already.....if i turn the volume into max the entire driver is shaking. The arya sounds like a mini speaker without putting it on my head...


----------



## candlejack

freeza2001 said:


> he is one of my favor headphone reviewer along side the HEADPHONE show...but i found his zh1es review almost useless......
> 
> For the entire run time hes spend 70% of the time talking about the build and function....20% of the time complain about how underpower the dac/amp is....he didnt not explain the sound signature or describe the sonic difference between the sony and other amps....
> 
> and he said he is maxing out volume with arya on this amp which i found almost impossible....im using my arya at -33db on high gain with 4.4 balance and its quite loud already.....if i turn the volume into max the entire driver is shaking. The arya sounds like a mini speaker without putting it on my head...


Ok, but the Arya is 40 Ohm. What I observed with the 300 Ohm HD600 is that power was considerably reduced on the 4.4 compared to 3.5*. If he was using the TA with something like the HD800, I could see how he would get close to maxing it out.

* still to be confirmed by other users.


----------



## nc8000

My only experience of totally maxing out the TA and still lacking both power and control was when I first got it with HE-6 but then that was no surprise


----------



## Rurouni (Apr 26, 2020)

candlejack said:


> I think you're right. No proper test yet, but I don't recall the HD600 sounding this good before. If nothing else, the TA will be a nice experiment in "audiophile psychology".



I've had a TA for a few months, primarily using it with my IER-Z1R. Out of curiousity I plugged in an pair of HD598s which I used on an older integrated amp. On the TA's high gain, the 598s really opened up with a nice wow factor. Really enjoying the broad sound staging and smooth delivery of the TA.


----------



## Rob49

Since buying my Sony MDR-Z1R's i haven't really been using my Sony 1AM2's with my TA & i thought i'd go back to them for awhile & i'm enjoying them so much ! I think they sound great, a little bass heavy, but i don't mind that. I think they're great value, for the price too. ( I bought mine nearly two years ago, for £150. )
I won't be giving up on my Z1R's, of course !


----------



## slumberman

Hello all!
I’m thinking of adding a TA to my setup, which in this case consists of a MacBook Pro, WM1Z and MDR Z1R. 
I have been using the WM1Z as a DAC and it’s been great. However, of course , I am looking at the TA to step it up a bit.
Could any WM1 series/TA and MDRZ1R owners chime in on how much of a change there would be ?
Thanks in advance!


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 30, 2020)

slumberman said:


> Hello all!
> I’m thinking of adding a TA to my setup, which in this case consists of a MacBook Pro, WM1Z and MDR Z1R.
> I have been using the WM1Z as a DAC and it’s been great. However, of course , I am looking at the TA to step it up a bit.
> Could any WM1 series/TA and MDRZ1R owners chime in on how much of a change there would be ?
> Thanks in advance!



It’s the last smidge of quality which is actually there but maybe quantifiable to 10% more? Though this may depend on someone’s hearing as well as how much volume they use. The 1Z can only go so far, especially with full-size headphones. It’s the TA DSD upsampling and extra damping factor over the 1Z. To me there was more of a difference with the 1Z having a treble boost, though after updating the TA firmware to 1.03 it became a tad brighter which I felt was great. The other aspects that add to the quality upgrade is a blackness of background and slight wider soundstage and added imaging.

Obviously there will be soundstage differences, but the greatest change for me happens in the lower midrange and bass department. The TA gets everything to a better pace and clarity which adds PRaT. IMO

It’s all how important that last 10% is worth, as to some it’s priceless then there of course is getting the DMP-Z1...........which I can guess is again another level.

You can experiment but some of us felt using the 1Z as a source was better than a laptop. If you do notice (it’s better sounding than a laptop)......using your 1Z connected to the TA with the side connection; then there is always the Cradle and AQCarbon upgrade.

The funny part about the extra 10% is that if you really do focus on it, it seems to get bigger?


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> It’s the last smidge of quality which is actually there but maybe quantifiable to 10% more? Though this may depend on someone’s hearing as well as how much volume they use. The 1Z can only go so far, especially with full-size headphones. It’s the TA DSD upsampling and extra damping factor over the 1Z. To me there was more of a difference with the 1Z having a treble boost, though after updating the TA firmware to 1.03 it became a tad brighter which I felt was great. The other aspects that add to the quality upgrade is a blackness of background and slight wider soundstage and added imaging.
> 
> Obviously there will be soundstage differences, but the greatest change for me happens in the lower midrange and bass department. The TA gets everything to a better pace and clarity which adds PRaT. IMO
> 
> It’s all how important that last 10% is worth, as to some it’s priceless then there of course is getting the DMP-Z1...........which I can guess is again another level.


I'm not ready to comment on the TA myself, but I just want to point out that 10% is not "a smidge" by most people's definition. If you were 10% taller, people would notice.


----------



## Redcarmoose

candlejack said:


> I'm not ready to comment on the TA myself, but I just want to point out that 10% is not "a smidge" by most people's definition. If you were 10% taller, people would notice.



That’s the crazy part of audiophiledom where there is a side like gambling; where your brain asks curiosity questions. What if? How about? If I could? And at how much money?


----------



## Rob49

slumberman said:


> Hello all!
> I’m thinking of adding a TA to my setup, which in this case consists of a MacBook Pro, WM1Z and MDR Z1R.
> I have been using the WM1Z as a DAC and it’s been great. However, of course , I am looking at the TA to step it up a bit.
> Could any WM1 series/TA and MDRZ1R owners chime in on how much of a change there would be ?
> Thanks in advance!



I have the Sony ZX300 & a Sony ZX2 Walkman....i do & have used them, but my main use is the Sony HAP-S1 player, which sounds excellent & what isn't highlighted enough about the TA, is the use of "pre-out" for speaker listening. For me, this is enough reason alone to purchase the TA, alone. ( Obviously, you can also have your Walkman's through pre-out too. )

Of course, i love the MDR - Z1R usage too. ( I've only tried laptop usuage once, very briefly, so can't really comment on that, but i'm sure it sounded fine. )

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a TA, it's so versatile....even though i'd love to hear a DMP-Z1 !.....wouldn't we ALL !!


----------



## slumberman

@Redcarmoose @candlejack @Rob49 thank you all!

Bought one


----------



## Rob49

slumberman said:


> @Redcarmoose @candlejack @Rob49 thank you all!
> 
> Bought one



Great ! You won't regret it, i'm certain of that !


----------



## Damz87

slumberman said:


> @Redcarmoose @candlejack @Rob49 thank you all!
> 
> Bought one


Congrats and welcome to the club


----------



## Redcarmoose

slumberman said:


> @Redcarmoose @candlejack @Rob49 thank you all!
> 
> Bought one



Congratulations.

There are some funny little things I like about the TA, other than the sound. There are LED lights that are on inside that are simply part of the operation  process way down inside the on the circuit board. Just being able to look inside when all the room lights are off and see them is cool. Also the RCA connects (even though I don’t use them) are built like a tank. I’ve never seen as nice RCA connections in 40 years of audio?


----------



## Rob49

Redcarmoose said:


> Congratulations.
> 
> There are some funny little things I like about the TA, other than the sound. There are LED lights that are on inside that are simply part of the operation  process way down inside the on the circuit board. Just being able to look inside when all the room lights are off and see them is cool.



I've never noticed that.....must look tonight.....perhaps i'll think "ALIENS" have landed ! lol ( You really MUST use your RCA's ! ?? )


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 30, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> I've never noticed that.....must look tonight.....perhaps i'll think "ALIENS" have landed ! lol ( You really MUST use your RCA's ! ?? )



The LED IS green, and I did guess that maybe not everyone knows. It’s at about a 45 degree angle looking inside from the right side......and you need total room darkness to see em. 

Must have been over a year till I noticed them.


----------



## candlejack

slumberman said:


> @Redcarmoose @candlejack @Rob49 thank you all!
> 
> Bought one





Rob49 said:


> Great ! You won't regret it, i'm certain of that !



Congrats dude! I'm not quite as certain as Rob, so I'm looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> The DMP Z1 is much better than TA in a sense that if you take cables differences which could cost multiple thousands.



I always value your knowledge & opinions @Whitigir like many forum members, but is the cable(s) and connector's, you use for your DMP-Z1, not very expensive....as seeing on one of your other posts, earlier today....but don't want to scroll through trying to find it....i'd say must be thousand + cost for that....do you see the point i'm making, i.e. just buying the DMP-Z1 still involves expensive costs, if you choose to...and after spending this kind of money, you're obviously not going to use a stock / cheap quality cable / gear.


----------



## Rob49 (Apr 30, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Congrats dude! I'm not quite as certain as Rob, so I'm looking forward to your impressions!



Are you not yet convinced @candlejack ?? You haven't had it too long yet & just acquired your MDR-Z1R's, too. ( I must admit that i've had recent moments where i've thought, "Does this sound so good today" ?? ( Headphone usage. ) That could just be not being quite in the right zone to listen....or just a yearning for a DMP-Z1 !


----------



## slumberman

Please let me receive the TA before I start thinking about selling it all for a DMP 

@Whitigir is already made it tempting, but it’s still a dream for the foreseeable future!


----------



## Rob49

candlejack said:


> I'm not ready to comment on the TA myself, but I just want to point out that 10% is not "a smidge" by most people's definition. If you were 10% taller, people would notice.



Not if you're Ronnie Corbett....God rest his soul !


----------



## Rob49

Hang on in there ! @slumberman


----------



## candlejack

Rob49 said:


> [...] you're obviously not going to use a stock / cheap quality cable / gear.


Cheap does not mean bad, just like expensive doesn't mean good. Also, in audio, cheap doesn't mean cheap.  


Rob49 said:


> Are you not yet convinced @candlejack ?? You haven't had it too long yet & just acquired your MDR-Z1R's, too. ( I must admit that i've had recent moments where i've thought, "Does this sound so good today" ?? ( Headphone usage. ) That could just be not being quite in theright zone to listen....or just a yearning for a DMP-Z1 !


I didn't quite get what you meant there at the end. So far I've just enjoyed listening to music and haven't found the time to do "testing", so that's why I reserve judgement on whether the TA is better and by how much. But one thing's for sure: I have been enjoying myself.


----------



## candlejack

Rob49 said:


> Not if you're Ronnie Corbett....God rest his soul !


Lol, I had to look him up. 1.52 m is not a lot, but for that reason I think an extra 15 cm would actually be more impactful than 17 cm on a 1.70 m tall person.


----------



## Rob49

candlejack said:


> Cheap does not mean bad, just like expensive doesn't mean good. Also, in audio, cheap doesn't mean cheap.
> 
> "Cheap" wasn't quite the right word to use....i love my Sony 1AM2's and those aren't overly expensive.
> 
> I didn't quite get what you meant there at the end. So far I've just enjoyed listening to music and haven't found the time to do "testing", so that's why I reserve judgement on whether the TA is better and by how much. But one thing's for sure: I have been enjoying myself.



I think i took your words a little out of context, trying to cause debate & reaction ! ( Most people don't understand me !....i don't understand myself at times ! Pleased you're enjoying your new purchases...


----------



## Rob49

candlejack said:


> Lol, I had to look him up. 1.52 m is not a lot, but for that reason I think an extra 15 cm would actually be more impactful than 17 cm on a 1.70 m tall person.



Sorry, i'm being awfully wicked !....as i listen to my TA / Sony Hap-S1 & MDR-Z1R's....


----------



## akãjerovia

Redcarmoose said:


> It’s the last smidge of quality which is actually there but maybe quantifiable to 10% more? Though this may depend on someone’s hearing as well as how much volume they use. The 1Z can only go so far, especially with full-size headphones. It’s the TA DSD upsampling and extra damping factor over the 1Z. To me there was more of a difference with the 1Z having a treble boost, though after updating the TA firmware to 1.03 it became a tad brighter which I felt was great. The other aspects that add to the quality upgrade is a blackness of background and slight wider soundstage and added imaging.
> 
> Obviously there will be soundstage differences, but the greatest change for me happens in the lower midrange and bass department. The TA gets everything to a better pace and clarity which adds PRaT. IMO
> 
> ...



To me is like this, comparing the Z7 with the Z1R. 10% more refined bass +10% more clarity +10% more detail +10% more soundstage +10% more comfort


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 30, 2020)

I actually though that the MDR-Z7 and MRD-Z1R were closer together in abilities directly after getting the Z7 home. Though now I think they are different?


----------



## akãjerovia

Redcarmoose said:


> I actually though that the MDR-Z7 and MRD-Z1R were closer together in abilities directly after getting the Z7 home. Though now I think they are different?



As you basically said in your review, the Z1R is refined, and the Z7 is raw (I love both models for what they give). My opinion is that all the 10% improvements must be added. If the Z1R only had 10% more refine bass and all other aspects were the same, i will say that the Z1R was 10% better than the Z7, but to me it also has 10% bigger soundstage, 10% more clarity 10% more detail and at least 10% more comfort. So to me the Z1R is at least 50% better than the Z7, because it does better in many areas, not just one. You could have the Z7 and be very happy, but don't try the Z1R if you aren't saving up. Still there are some albums that i like more on the Z7 than the Z1R. The only loser here is the wallet 

The same can be said about the 1A compared to the 1Z or the 1Z compared to the TA, or the TA compared to the Z1.


----------



## Redcarmoose

I’m not sure how well the MDR-Z7 is always able to perform in any given situation? Meaning.......that you wonder if folks who didn’t like the MDR-Z7 were not driving it right, or simply didn’t like the Sony sound. The MDR-Z7 used with the TA is a fun and capable headphone. I was actually surprised how much ability it has? I acquired them (on close-out) after owning the MDR-Z1R at a 1/5 of the cost. The Z7 does end up complementary maybe while using both with the TA; especially if your already a fan of the Sony sound.


----------



## akãjerovia

Redcarmoose said:


> you wonder if folks who didn’t like the MDR-Z7 were not driving it right, or simply didn’t like the Sony sound.



Sometimes is either and sometimes both, i don't know why some take it personal though, guess they have a lot of time to waste. I don't know about the TA, wish i can afford it one day, but with the ifi BL the Z7 tightens the loose bass and stand on his own, even on SE. The Z1R on the other hand really shine on the balanced output.


----------



## Redcarmoose

akãjerovia said:


> Sometimes is either and sometimes both, i don't know why some take it personal though, guess they have a lot of time to waste. I don't know about the TA, wish i can afford it one day, but with the ifi BL the Z7 tightens the loose bass and stand on his own, even on SE. The Z1R on the other hand really shine on the balanced output.










All this talk of the MDR-Z7 inspired me to pull it out into the above configuration for a listen. Really surprised how complete.... yet truly underrated the Z7 is. Fact is that with the right gear in front it climbs and climbs. In comparison to running the Schitt Asgard single ended even using the outputs of the TA as a DAC, the Asgard leaves much to be desired.

Feeding the Z7 right results in changes to such a grand competitive place.......I can almost see the Sony big wigs and engineers nodding their heads in approval back in 2014. They must have been thinking that this IS the new Sony flagship!


----------



## slumberman

Redcarmoose said:


> All this talk of the MDR-Z7 inspired me to pull it out into the above configuration for a listen. Really surprised how complete.... yet truly underrated the Z7 is. Fact is that with the right gear in front it climbs and climbs. In comparison to running the Schitt Asgard single ended even using the outputs of the TA as a DAC, the Asgard leaves much to be desired.
> 
> Feeding the Z7 right results in changes to such a grand competitive place.......I can almost see the Sony big wigs and engineers nodding their heads in approval back in 2014. They must have been thinking that this IS the new Sony flagship!



hey!

hows the dock connecting to the Walkman port ? Or is if simply to the right and then connecting to the usb in the back ?

thanks!


----------



## akãjerovia

Redcarmoose said:


> All this talk of the MDR-Z7 inspired me to pull it out into the above configuration for a listen. Really surprised how complete.... yet truly underrated the Z7 is. Fact is that with the right gear in front it climbs and climbs. In comparison to running the Schitt Asgard single ended even using the outputs of the TA as a DAC, the Asgard leaves much to be desired.
> 
> Feeding the Z7 right results in changes to such a grand competitive place.......I can almost see the Sony big wigs and engineers nodding their heads in approval back in 2014. They must have been thinking that this IS the new Sony flagship!



How is the cradle holding the player? unfortunately i found a little dent in my wm-port jack and i am thinking of buying a cradle to charge it and connect it to the pc, if i encounter connecting issues


----------



## akãjerovia

This is an old review of the Z7 with it intended dac/amp the PHA-3


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 14, 2020)

https://www.amazon.com/Walkman-Cradle-BCR-NWH10-NW-ZX2-Japan/dp/B00S94R5RK


There are actually a multitude of ways to hook a Walkman to the TA. Note the high resolution Sony USB (as shown coming out of the 1Z in the picture) that cable gets a higher bit rate than the side TA connection. Laughably I (as an experiment to help a member) simply hooked the Sony Walkman with that Hi-Res adapter to the side port with a regular mini USB cable. He wanted to keep his computer hooked to the back of the TA but didn’t want to buy aftermarket the included Sony side mini USB connector for the Walkman. The included Sony has extra an extra stability plug next to a regular mini USB.

But there is also the little Sony USB plug which simply allows you to hook a USB to the back of the TA and join with a Walkman.


With all those options the Cradle is still the ultimate way to go and I will attempt to explain why. These are not my ideas but stuff I have learned over the years here from others.

1) The cradle has USB filters. Using the cradle has ended as the superior way not only due to the USB reclocking but also allowing us to use a high quality USB cable to allow the sensitive digital signal to enter the TA free of EMI. Thus a cable like the AudioQuest Carbon USB is the choice of many.

The cradle reclocks the signal and cleans up the noise like a USB cable purification system.

2) The cradle allows you to also hook up a computer to the back of the cradle and choose with a switch to use the Walkman or computer. It filters the computer too I think.

3) The cradle charges the Walkmans.

This is important to actually not use all the time as for battery safety you don’t really want your Walkman plugged in and charging 24/7.



AudioQuest Carbon USB. Best to find 1 foot  not 5 foot model.


----------



## slumberman

Redcarmoose said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Walkman-Cradle-BCR-NWH10-NW-ZX2-Japan/dp/B00S94R5RK
> 
> 
> There are actually a multitude of ways to hook a Walkman to the TA. Note the high resolution Sony USB (as shown coming out of the 1Z in the picture) that cable gets a higher bit rate than the side TA connection. Laughably I (as an experiment to help a member) simply hooked the Sony Walkman with that Hi-Res adapter to the side port with a regular mini USB cable. He wanted to keep his computer hooked to the back of the TA but didn’t want to buy aftermarket the included Sony side mini USB connector for the Walkman. The included Sony has extra an stability plug next to a regular mini USB.
> ...



Thank you. Very helpful!


----------



## Redcarmoose

slumberman said:


> Thank you. Very helpful!



Yes, not sure about this though? Haven’t used it.


----------



## Redcarmoose

akãjerovia said:


> How is the cradle holding the player? unfortunately i found a little dent in my wm-port jack and i am thinking of buying a cradle to charge it and connect it to the pc, if i encounter connecting issues



Cradle in the photos goes to the back of the TA. But the cradle does also allow PC hook-up with the Walkmans.


----------



## akãjerovia

Redcarmoose said:


> Cradle in the photos goes to the back of the TA. But the cradle does also allow PC hook-up with the Walkmans.



How does the player sits on the base of the cradle? If my 1A stars to lose connection or charge correctly i was thinking of this cradle to sit it tightly to charge it and connect it to the PC. Also it has he option to connect it to a dac/amp which is nice since DSD drains a lot of battery directly from the 1A.


----------



## Redcarmoose

akãjerovia said:


> How does the player sits on the base of the cradle? If my 1A stars to lose connection or charge correctly i was thinking of this cradle to sit it tightly to charge it and connect it to the PC. Also it has he option to connect it to a dac/amp which is nice since DSD drains a lot of battery directly from the 1A.


I would say that the connection would be close to the same. Though if you could imagine a spring loaded plug which then allows the Walkman to slightly shift from side to side all while still being plugged in. Don’t know if your familiar with the Walkman battery reset? You let your Walkman go to zero charge, then try to turn it back on twice to make sure it’s totally drained of juice. You then (with battery saver off) go to 100% charge uninterrupted. Thus before the process you make sure the battery saver is off. Then the Walkman will at times give better battery performance. Still you should not leave your player charging to 100% all the time. So even with the cradle charging, you should unplug it.


----------



## Rob49

Redcarmoose said:


> All this talk of the MDR-Z7 inspired me to pull it out into the above configuration for a listen. Really surprised how complete.... yet truly underrated the Z7 is. Fact is that with the right gear in front it climbs and climbs. In comparison to running the Schitt Asgard single ended even using the outputs of the TA as a DAC, the Asgard leaves much to be desired.
> 
> Feeding the Z7 right results in changes to such a grand competitive place.......I can almost see the Sony big wigs and engineers nodding their heads in approval back in 2014. They must have been thinking that this IS the new Sony flagship!



What headphone cable do you use @Redcarmoose & i've never quite understood what the benefit of the cradle is ?? ( Not that i can easily get one now, in the U.K. )


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 3, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> What headphone cable do you use @Redcarmoose & i've never quite understood what the benefit of the cradle is ?? ( Not that i can easily get one now, in the U.K. )








                Post #2,404 of 2,410 this post explains cradle additive benefits.




 https://www.amazon.com/Sony-MUC-B20SB1-SONY-Headphone-cable/dp/B01LRR04F0

The cable for the 4.4mm balanced output with the TA simply adds some smoothness to the treble and cleans up the bass response a little. It works well with both the MDR-Z1R and MDR-Z7. People also say they notice benefits using the cable with the MDR-Z7MK2. You will also find a few in both this thread and the MDR-Z1R thread which have moved up to the Kimber AXIOS aftermarket cable.


----------



## Damz87

I’ve got one for sale if anyone’s interested 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...anced-kimber-kable-for-mdr-z1r-mdr-z7.931012/


----------



## Redcarmoose

Damz87 said:


> I’ve got one for sale if anyone’s interested
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-...anced-kimber-kable-for-mdr-z1r-mdr-z7.931012/



I never would have purchased an aftermarket Kimber cable but it was free with the MDR-Z1R when I purchased. Later after testing it seemed to really affect the results in use.......now I feel lucky to have one.


----------



## Damz87

Redcarmoose said:


> I never would have purchased an aftermarket Kimber cable but it was free with the MDR-Z1R when I purchased. Later after testing it seemed to really affect the results in use.......now I feel lucky to have one.



Thats a great deal to get it for free with the headphones  it’s not a cheap cable and it certainly looks and feels like a high quality product.


----------



## Rob49

Redcarmoose said:


> Post #2,404 of 2,410 this post explains cradle additive benefits.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link to the posts regarding cradle....last time i looked the Sony Kimber cable was unavailable on Amazon U.K. Although i am considering buying a AXIOS cable....i'm ALWAYS considering buying things !...as @Whitigir says, i'm currently suffering from "upgraditis"


----------



## slumberman

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for the link to the posts regarding cradle....last time i looked the Sony Kimber cable was unavailable on Amazon U.K. Although i am considering buying a AXIOS cable....i'm ALWAYS considering buying things !...as @Whitigir says, i'm currently suffering from "upgraditis"



I purchased an open box Sony Kimber cable on eBay, shipped from the US to Europe. 
really happy with the upgrade... I don’t think you’ll regret it!


----------



## Rob49

slumberman said:


> I purchased an open box Sony Kimber cable on eBay, shipped from the US to Europe.
> really happy with the upgrade... I don’t think you’ll regret it!



I've already spent a fair bit on cables that cost as much as the Sony Kimber cable, but still considering it....or the AXIOS ??


----------



## Whitigir

Axios is the top of the line from Kimber


----------



## Rob49

Whitigir said:


> Axios is the top of the line from Kimber



Yes, my post was even confusing to me !


----------



## akãjerovia

Redcarmoose said:


> I would say that the connection would be close to the same. Though if you could imagine a spring loaded plug which then allows the Walkman to slightly shift from side to side all while still being plugged in. Don’t know if your familiar with the Walkman battery reset? You let your Walkman go to zero charge, then try to turn it back on twice to make sure it’s totally drained of juice. You then (with battery saver off) go to 100% charge uninterrupted. Thus before the process you make sure the battery saver is off. Then the Walkman will at times give better battery performance. Still you should not leave your player charging to 100% all the time. So even with the cradle charging, you should unplug it.



Thanks man


----------



## Donamo

Hi everyone, after many years of saving and craving since launch, I've drop the bomb for this magnificent beauty. 





Been with me for 2 month now and loving it. Its simply just so enjoyable to relax and listen. 

One problem, what's the best way to wireless control the music I play, how you'll overcome it? My playback is from my NAS play through my PC that is connected to the sony. Sometime I'm just lazy to get up and skip/change track on my PC. Nice to meet you'll!


----------



## nc8000

Donamo said:


> Hi everyone, after many years of saving and craving since launch, I've drop the bomb for this magnificent beauty.
> Been with me for 2 month now and loving it. Its simply just so enjoyable to relax and listen.
> 
> One problem, what's the best way to wireless control the music I play, how you'll overcome it? My playback is from my NAS play through my PC that is connected to the sony. Sometime I'm just lazy to get up and skip/change track on my PC. Nice to meet you'll!



If you use foobar as player there is a plug in and companion smart phone app. Can’t remember the name but I used it until I bought my Auralic Aries Mini streamer 3 years ago to replace the pc as source


----------



## candlejack

Donamo said:


> Hi everyone, after many years of saving and craving since launch, I've drop the bomb for this magnificent beauty.
> Been with me for 2 month now and loving it. Its simply just so enjoyable to relax and listen.
> 
> One problem, what's the best way to wireless control the music I play, how you'll overcome it? My playback is from my NAS play through my PC that is connected to the sony. Sometime I'm just lazy to get up and skip/change track on my PC. Nice to meet you'll!


Congrats! Glad you're enjoying it. 

To answer your question, a wireless keyboard might be the cheapest solution.

Or a remote desktop app for your phone like this one (haven't used it myself):


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> Congrats! Glad you're enjoying it.
> 
> To answer your question, a wireless keyboard might be the cheapest solution.
> 
> Or a remote desktop app for your phone like this one (haven't used it myself):



Or TeamViewer


----------



## candlejack

For those who also own the MDR-Z1R (which is probably 80% of the thread, lol), if you volume match the SE and Bal outputs, what numbers do you get (e.g. -30dB SE = -36dB Bal)?


----------



## bflat

Don't know how many use TA line out, but I now have mine going to an ALO Pan Am for a tube option and it works great. Still strange to me that TA hasn't been a bigger hit as a DAC.


----------



## slumberman

hello all,

I have received the TA, however it doesn’t seem to be recognizing the Walkman connected to it. I tried to restart them all but no luck. Is there a setting I am missing, or is this broken?

thanks in advance!


----------



## Rob49

slumberman said:


> hello all,
> 
> I have received the TA, however it doesn’t seem to be recognizing the Walkman connected to it. I tried to restart them all but no luck. Is there a setting I am missing, or is this broken?
> 
> thanks in advance!



Congrats on receiving. I'm certain it's not broken, because i got this message once before & i'm racking my brains what i did to rectify it. I know it was something simple ? Was just trying to replicate it again....i know someone will be able to help you out....if i find out in the meantime...


----------



## slumberman

Rob49 said:


> Congrats on receiving. I'm certain it's not broken, because i got this message once before & i'm racking my brains what i did to rectify it. I know it was something simple ? Was just trying to replicate it again....i know someone will be able to help you out....if i find out in the meantime...



I tried everything to be honest...I think it's a faulty unit: It charges the WM1Z but it doesn't seem to recognize or connect to it while playing music. Oh well. Back it goes!


----------



## Rob49 (May 7, 2020)

slumberman said:


> I tried everything to be honest...I think it's a faulty unit: It charges the WM1Z but it doesn't seem to recognize or connect to it while playing music. Oh well. Back it goes!



As i said, i had this problem & can't recall what i did to rectify it ?? I'm sure it was simple, an input button, or if it was something to do with the Walkman settings, but i think it is something to do with the settings on the TA ?? Have you got another device you can connect to the TA ?....just to see that it's working ?


----------



## nc8000

slumberman said:


> hello all,
> 
> I have received the TA, however it doesn’t seem to be recognizing the Walkman connected to it. I tried to restart them all but no luck. Is there a setting I am missing, or is this broken?
> 
> thanks in advance!



Have you selected the Walkman port as the active input on the TA ?


----------



## slumberman

Rob49 said:


> As i said, i had this problem & can't recall what i did to rectify it ?? I'm sure it was simple, an input button, or if it was something to do with the Walkman settings, but i think it is something to do with the settings on the TA ?? Have you got another device you can connect to the TA ?....just to see that it's working ?


It works if I connect the usb in the back to my Mac. I


nc8000 said:


> Have you selected the Walkman port as the active input on the TA ?


Yes, thank you.

It is not seeing the WM1Z with the cable that came with the TA...that's all.


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 7, 2020)

bflat said:


> Don't know how many use TA line out, but I now have mine going to an ALO Pan Am for a tube option and it works great. Still strange to me that TA hasn't been a bigger hit as a DAC.



Well, it has actually been successful for people using it as a preamp. But speaker set-ups are going to be not normal here as far as emphasis. But over the years I have read about folks saying they were absolutely incredible preamps for high end two channel speaker rigs.

Of my stacks of headphone and regular stereo amplifiers, I’ve used for headphones, the TA is one of the best ever. So it makes sense it would be great with speakers.


----------



## Rob49

slumberman said:


> It works if I connect the usb in the back to my Mac. I
> 
> Yes, thank you.
> 
> It is not seeing the WM1Z with the cable that came with the TA...that's all.



Have you had any luck ? I definitely had the same thing, but can't recall what i did to rectify it ?? ( & i didn't change the USB cable. ) Hope you can sort it, if i do recall i'll obviously post back.


----------



## slumberman

Rob49 said:


> Have you had any luck ? I definitely had the same thing, but can't recall what i did to rectify it ?? ( & i didn't change the USB cable. ) Hope you can sort it, if i do recall i'll obviously post back.


Yeah well, I don't know what happened, but it's working now:

All I think I did was resetting the WM1Z and shuffling cables around.

Right now I have it all connected kind of wonky, along with the Sony dock:

I have the 1Z on the dock, connected via USB to the back of the TA, the Dock mini usb to the Mac in order to mount the SD card when the dock is switched to PC mode, then the Mac connected via mini USB to the TA walkman side port, in order to use the TA as a DAC for my computer.

I don't know if this is the best configuration, but it seems to be working fine for now...sounds very good!

Thank you for helping, btw!


----------



## Rob49

slumberman said:


> Yeah well, I don't know what happened, but it's working now:
> 
> All I think I did was resetting the WM1Z and shuffling cables around.
> 
> ...



I haven't done anything, other than try to calm you ! lol ( I remember i was in a panic ! )  I'm pleased it's sorted now. 

I don't have a dock for my Walkman's ( I don't have the 1Z. ) As i've posted previously, i get a lot of joy out of using pre-out & line out & in, for speaker listening, besides headphone usage of course. It's such a versatile device.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of pleasure out of it. Enjoy !


----------



## ASIN

I finally purchased a Nordost Red Dawn Type C to Type Micro B USB Cable and my Sony NW-ZX507 now sounds brilliant connected through my Tazzy Walkman port and out to Focal Utopias using the new XLR cable. Thank you for all the help and messages, they were very helpful. So what to purchase next... any ideas?


----------



## Rob49

Has anyone used the Sennheiser HD660 S with the TA ( Balanced ) ?


----------



## S-O8

Anyone gone from this to a Hugo TT2 ?   

Just considering that pairing for my Focal Utopia (and looking to get Stellia too).    

I have Z1R and Ether 2 ... all of which are great on the TA-ZH1but I am thinking of treating myself as a retirement present.


----------



## bflat

S-O8 said:


> Anyone gone from this to a Hugo TT2 ?
> 
> Just considering that pairing for my Focal Utopia (and looking to get Stellia too).
> 
> I have Z1R and Ether 2 ... all of which are great on the TA-ZH1but I am thinking of treating myself as a retirement present.



Congrats! How about something really cool like using the line out from your TA for a Raal SR1a with a Schiit Jotunheim R? BTW, I think the Utopia and TA is a wonderful pairing with the TA bringing a more organic fluid sound to the highly clinical Utopias.


----------



## Redcarmoose

bflat said:


> Congrats! How about something really cool like using the line out from your TA for a Raal SR1a with a Schiit Jotunheim R? BTW, I think the Utopia and TA is a wonderful pairing with the TA bringing a more organic fluid sound to the highly clinical Utopias.



I’ve actually gone line out to the Schiit Asgard One. Interesting but maybe futile?


----------



## candlejack

ASIN said:


> I finally purchased a Nordost Red Dawn Type C to Type Micro B USB Cable and my Sony NW-ZX507 now sounds brilliant connected through my Tazzy Walkman port and out to Focal Utopias using the new XLR cable. Thank you for all the help and messages, they were very helpful. So what to purchase next... any ideas?


Time to upgrade the power cable of the Tazzy.


----------



## bflat

Redcarmoose said:


> I’ve actually gone line out to the Schiit Asgard One. Interesting but maybe futile?



The power output on the TA headphone out is great with moderate to low power required headphones. For the harder to drive headphones I think it may actually be better to use an external amp. Certainly viable IMHO if you want to add tubes like I did with the Pan Am. I'm also of the opinion now that SE versus balanced doesn't really matter as long as the implementation is done right.


----------



## nc8000

bflat said:


> The power output on the TA headphone out is great with moderate to low power required headphones. For the harder to drive headphones I think it may actually be better to use an external amp. Certainly viable IMHO if you want to add tubes like I did with the Pan Am. I'm also of the opinion now that SE versus balanced doesn't really matter as long as the implementation is done right.



Yes implementation is certainly key but in all my years with headphone amps I’ve generally found that balanced is better than single ended but the size of the difference varies and some headphones benefit more from balanced than others


----------



## bflat

nc8000 said:


> Yes implementation is certainly key but in all my years with headphone amps I’ve generally found that balanced is better than single ended but the size of the difference varies and some headphones benefit more from balanced than others



Yes, if an amp has both balanced and se, definitely use balanced. However, for high end amps and amp/DACs that only have SE, I think the distinction is negligible, especially with tube amps. Personally, I would love if every headphone output used the 4.4mm Pentaconn since it would simplify cable ownership and can be wired for either balanced or SE. While slightly off topic, if this were to happen I'm not sure most folks would care if the internals were balanced or SE.


----------



## Redcarmoose

The MDR-Z7 is such an amazing experience, using the TA, Cradle and Kimber. I can’t imagine these sounding much better?


----------



## JerryHead

What cable (or cables?) is it that is used to plug the WM1A into the TA-ZH1ES?
Also, my guess is the TA needs to be plugged straight into the wall, and not into an extension cord/surge protector, correct?
thanks.


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 25, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> What cable (or cables?) is it that is used to plug the WM1A into the TA-ZH1ES?
> Also, my guess is the TA needs to be plugged straight into the wall, and not into an extension cord/surge protector, correct?
> thanks.



https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH10-Conversion-Cable-Output/dp/B00FF086HE



https://www.amazon.com/Walkman-Cradle-BCR-NWH10-NW-ZX2-Japan/dp/B00S94R5RK



https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Carbon-USB-B-Plug-0-75m/dp/B0041EH0WW

TA comes with a side connection mini USB. Though the sonic upgrade is the rear USB adapter. The third and final best is the Cradle with the AQCarbon USB. Probably best to get the shortest USB possible.

The Cradle allows charging as well as reclocking and noise USB filters, and has a switch so you can choose to use your computer or Walkman as a digital transport for the TA. 
Cheers.


----------



## JerryHead

Redcarmoose said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH10-Conversion-Cable-Output/dp/B00FF086HE
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would you happen to have a link to that sonic upgrade "rear USB adapter?"


----------



## gsiu33

bflat said:


> Don't know how many use TA line out, but I now have mine going to an ALO Pan Am for a tube option and it works great. Still strange to me that TA hasn't been a bigger hit as a DAC.


I have the TA line out connected to the power amp section of my Gryphon integrated amp in the speakers system. Gryphon amp has function to by-pass the pre-amp section so i just using the volume control of TA. I also connected the optical output of the CD player to TA, and playing redbook CD with DSD Remastering. The sound is pretty good. I am also have AK240 (using AudioQuest Carbon USB) connected to TA, now have the joy of listening to all my hi-res and DSD albums with the speakers system every night. 😊


----------



## JerryHead

gsiu33 said:


> I have the TA line out connected to the power amp section of my Gryphon integrated amp in the speakers system. Gryphon amp has function to by-pass the pre-amp section so i just using the volume control of TA. I also connected the optical output of the CD player to TA, and playing redbook CD with DSD Remastering. The sound is pretty good. I am also have AK240 (using AudioQuest Carbon USB) connected to TA, now have the joy of listening to all my hi-res and DSD albums with the speakers system every night. 😊


Is it the Gryphon Diablo 300 that you're using?


----------



## gsiu33

JerryHead said:


> Is it the Gryphon Diablo 300 that you're using?


I am still using the previous model Callisto 2200, it still functions very well so no intention to change.


----------



## JerryHead

so, if the TA doesn't play MQA files, does that mean that they don't play them at all? Is there just silence if you try and play one through it?  Or does it mean that it doesn't upsample them to DSD quality? and they're still played, but at lower resolution?


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> so, if the TA doesn't play MQA files, does that mean that they don't play them at all? Is there just silence if you try and play one through it?  Or does it mean that it doesn't upsample them to DSD quality? and they're still played, but at lower resolution?



My TA plays mqa files just fine when stored on the internal drive on my Auralic Aries Mini streamer over usb but I assume it is the Auralic that does the unfolding before sending the stream out over usb so it probably depends on your source. However any mqa file will play on any device but only at full resolution if the player is mqa certified just like HDCD discs could be played by any cd player but only at full resolution if the player was HDCD certified


----------



## JerryHead

nc8000 said:


> My TA plays mqa files just fine when stored on the internal drive on my Auralic Aries Mini streamer over usb but I assume it is the Auralic that does the unfolding before sending the stream out over usb so it probably depends on your source. However any mqa file will play on any device but only at full resolution if the player is mqa certified just like HDCD discs could be played by any cd player but only at full resolution if the player was HDCD certified


Ah, okay.  My source would be the WM1A


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> Ah, okay.  My source would be the WM1A



Thw 1A is certified to play mqa so will do the unfolding and then send the resulting bit stream to the TA just like my Auralic does. At least that is my understanding


----------



## JerryHead

nc8000 said:


> Thw 1A is certified to play mqa so will do the unfolding and then send the resulting bit stream to the TA just like my Auralic does. At least that is my understanding


So, the TA will play them in 24/192?


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> So, the TA will play them in 24/192?



It will play them in whatever resolution the file tells the player to play at. I have mqa files that play at any rate from 44.1 to 192 but always 24 bit


----------



## JerryHead

nc8000 said:


> It will play them in whatever resolution the file tells the player to play at. I have mqa files that play at any rate from 44.1 to 192 but always 24 bit


I see. thanks.  Just ordered the TA!  Psyched to get it next week.  So, what would be the best way to connect an Android DAP for Tidal streaming?


----------



## JerryHead

Can the Audio Quest Carbon USB cable be used as an upgraded connection method without the dock?  Or is it intended only for the dock?


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> Can the Audio Quest Carbon USB cable be used as an upgraded connection method without the dock?  Or is it intended only for the dock?



The Carbon is a standard usb A-B cable so will connect anything with those terminals


----------



## JerryHead (May 29, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> The Carbon is a standard usb A-B cable so will connect anything with those terminals


Sorry but can you plug the 1A into the TA with only the Sony WMC-NWH10 cable for a sonic upgrade?  Or must you use the USB A-B cable as well?


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> Sorry but can you plug the 1A into the TA with only the Sony WMC-NWH10 cable for a sonic upgrade?  Or must you use the USB A-B cable as well?



Can’t comment as I never connected my 1Z to my TA


----------



## candlejack

I shed a tear and get one step closer to leaving this forum every time I see someone talk about USB upgrade cables. It's not so much because they make no difference for the sound (which happens to be my position), but because the people interested in them don't really know where the improvement is supposed to come from.


----------



## Lookout57

JerryHead said:


> Sorry but can you plug the 1A into the TA with only the Sony WMC-NWH10 cable for a sonic upgrade?  Or must you use the USB A-B cable as well?


With the Sony WMC-NWH10 adapter you will need a  USB A-B cable to connect to the TA. Just like when using the dock to connect to the TA.

As for which USB cable to use, I wouldn't use a cheap USB A-B cable as they are poorly made with inferior components. A name brand will use quality cable and connectors that will impact performance. Poorly made cables can introduce jitter and noise which can be heard by 99.99% of people.


----------



## JerryHead

Lookout57 said:


> With the Sony WMC-NWH10 adapter you will need a  USB A-B cable to connect to the TA. Just like when using the dock to connect to the TA.
> 
> As for which USB cable to use, I wouldn't use a cheap USB A-B cable as they are poorly made with inferior components. A name brand will use quality cable and connectors that will impact performance. Poorly made cables can introduce jitter and noise which can be heard by 99.99% of people.


Great, much appreciated!  And it sounds like the USB cable will come in handy anyhow when I do eventually get the dock.


----------



## XM3orZ7m2

Redcarmoose said:


> The MDR-Z7 is such an amazing experience, using the TA, Cradle and Kimber. I can’t imagine these sounding much better?



Try using the oratory1990 EQ on them! there's a handy tool called AutoEQ that helps with that


----------



## candlejack

The people who designed the USB made sure to provide a fully spec'ed protocol stack, i.e. including the components of the physical layer, e.g. cable and connectors. Below are a couple of pages from the USB 2.0 specification. 

Of course, audiophiles are known to be intellectually superior to engineers and thus it should come as no surprise that they have been able to ascertain the flaws of the USB design.


----------



## JerryHead

I want to put my TA about eight feet away from the nearest outlet.  My guess is the stock cable won't stretch that far.  Anyone have any recommendations of where to find a longer cable that will be at least as good, if not higher quality?  I'm guessing maybe medical/hospital grade..


----------



## candlejack




----------



## ZigyS

JerryHead said:


> I want to put my TA about eight feet away from the nearest outlet.  My guess is the stock cable won't stretch that far.  Anyone have any recommendations of where to find a longer cable that will be at least as good, if not higher quality?  I'm guessing maybe medical/hospital grade..


In the current Power cable prices ... i think it will be cheaper to move the wall closer than to buy a 3 meter cable..
It really does not matter - just buy an extension cord and that all. From the extension - use a HQ cable , the TA benefit from it in sound.


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 29, 2020)

@https://www.head-fi.org/members/xm3orz7m2.531174/

Thank-you for your intent to somehow help? But obviously your totally clueless as to how the TA and Cradle work together. 

There is absolutely zero EQ possible? 

The TA/AQCarbon/Cradle/MDR-Z7 sounds perfect. I’ve taken years to get to this place, so don’t need EQ anyway?


----------



## JerryHead

ZigyS said:


> In the current Power cable prices ... i think it will be cheaper to move the wall closer than to buy a 3 meter cable..
> It really does not matter - just buy an extension cord and that all. From the extension - use a HQ cable , the TA benefit from it in sound.


HQ cable?  are you referring to the stock cable that came with it?  or if not, do you have link?


----------



## Gadget67 (May 29, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> HQ cable?  are you referring to the stock cable that came with it?  or if not, do you have link?


Here is what you need.  I use this to connect my WM1Z to a usb cable with my TA-ZH1ES.
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH...y+Walkman+adapter+cable&qid=1590801606&sr=8-2

EDIT:  I see Redcarmoose already provided the link!


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 29, 2020)

candlejack said:


> I shed a tear and get one step closer to leaving this forum every time I see someone talk about USB upgrade cables. It's not so much because they make no difference for the sound (which happens to be my position), but because the people interested in them don't really know where the improvement is supposed to come from.



Haha. Why so emotional. Simply lighten up. No big deal. Look at it like being in the supermarket and seeing someone buy something you don’t like. It’s what they are into. If someone was buying a big jar of pickles you wouldn’t get worked up; even though you don’t like pickles.


----------



## Redcarmoose

JerryHead said:


> HQ cable?  are you referring to the stock cable that came with it?  or if not, do you have link?



Congratulations on your new TA. Any noticeable improvements so far. To answer your question about the AQCarbon...... it’s debatable how much improvement it raises? Though yes, it can be used as a USB from a computer to the TA instead of the Cradle while your waiting for the Cradle. 

These improvements with the Cradle and AQCarbon are used by a number of members. Obviously individual results may vary. Though for me the Cradle arrived before the AQCarbon. I made the mistake of getting the 5 foot AQCarbon but really the shorter one is better. Shorter has less opportunity to gather EMF exposure. But when the AQCarbon arrived I noticed a more focused treble imaging as well as better pace.


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 29, 2020)

Gadget67 said:


> Here is what you need.  I use this to connect my WM1Z to a usb cable with my TA-ZH1ES.
> https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH...y+Walkman+adapter+cable&qid=1590801606&sr=8-2
> 
> EDIT:  I see Redcarmoose already provided the link!



That cable allows a higher hit-rate on some files which the side cable will not allow. Somewhere back in this thread a member posted all the bit-rate files that then side cable and rear USB cable adapter provide. Interestingly enough the Cradle will allow the same bit-rates as the adapter but adds USB reclocking and noise filtering. When you combine that with the added transfer effects of the AQCarbon, results can get noticed.....by some.


----------



## Gadget67

Redcarmoose said:


> That cable allows a higher hit-rate on some files which the side cable will not allow. Somewhere back in this thread a member posted all the bit-rate files that then side cable and rear USB cable adapter provide. Interestingly enough the Cradle will allow the same bit-rates as the adapter but adds USB reclocking and noise filtering. When you combine that with the added transfer effects of the AQCarbon, results can get noticed.....by some.


I like the cradle and I believe I am getting better results than the side cable but its a bit clumsy to use when I’m searching through music.  Using the adapter and a usb cable is more convenient.  I’m currently using the TA-ZH1ES as the DAC for my SPL Phonitor 2 and getting spectacular results!  This pic shows the side cable connection but I’ve since switched to a Nordost Blue Heaven with the adapter.


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 29, 2020)

Gadget67 said:


> I like the cradle and I believe I am getting better results than the side cable but its a bit clumsy to use when I’m searching through music.  Using the adapter and a usb cable is more convenient.  I’m currently using the TA-ZH1ES as the DAC for my SPL Phonitor 2 and getting spectacular results!  This pic shows the side cable connection but I’ve since switched to a Nordost Blue Heaven with the adapter.



That’s a good point, some may not like changing songs or albums if the  Walkman angle is not correct. It works for me though, maybe because it’s level at eye sight? Some also feel the Walkmans can be slightly wobbly on the Cradle.


----------



## JerryHead

ZigyS said:


> In the current Power cable prices ... i think it will be cheaper to move the wall closer than to buy a 3 meter cable..
> It really does not matter - just buy an extension cord and that all. From the extension - use a HQ cable , the TA benefit from it in sound.


I was referring to the a/c power cord for the TA.  i wasn't sure what was meant by "HQ"  (high quality?)  Can anyone tell me how long the stock a/c power cord is for the TA, and if it's under 8 feet, has anyone used an aftermarket replacement that is longer?  I'm guessing using an extension cord connected to the stock cord might degrade the power of the amp?  or, maybe using any longer power cable would do so as well?


----------



## Gadget67

Redcarmoose said:


> That’s a good point, some may not like changing songs or albums if the  Walkman angle is not correct. It works for me though, maybe because it’s level at eye sight?


The WM1Z is heavy (as you know) and it just does not feel secure enough in the cradle when changing songs or albums.  The downside of using the USB/adapter is that the device isn’t charging.  i do like the cradle because it is at eye level.  First world problems, but I’ll struggle through it!


----------



## Gadget67

JerryHead said:


> I was referring to the a/c power cord for the TA.  i wasn't sure what was meant by "HQ"  (high quality?)  Can anyone tell me how long the stock a/c power cord is for the TA, and if it's under 8 feet, has anyone used an aftermarket replacement that is longer?  I'm guessing using an extension cord connected to the stock cord might degrade the power of the amp?  or, maybe using any longer power cable would do so as well?


Well, it’s definitely under 8 feet.  A good heavy duty short extension cable or decent quality surge protector will be just fine.


----------



## JerryHead

So, using a surge protector is not going to impact (degrade) the sound in any way?  This is my fear..


----------



## Gadget67

JerryHead said:


> So, using a surge protector is not going to impact (degrade) the sound in any way?  This is my fear..


You are way overthinking this.  There are power fluctuations from your electric grid, your home wiring may br flawed, your wall plugs might be low quality, etc, etc.  if you are that concerned, then consider a power conditioner.  Here’s a link:
https://www.moon-audio.com/bryston-bit15-transformer.html


----------



## JerryHead

Gadget67 said:


> You are way overthinking this.  There are power fluctuations from your electric grid, your home wiring may br flawed, your wall plugs might be low quality, etc, etc.  if you are that concerned, then consider a power conditioner.  Here’s a link:
> https://www.moon-audio.com/bryston-bit15-transformer.html


okay, guess I deserved that, lol! I have a power conditioner for my AVR and other components, but it's a $400 one, not $3k.  And I have Nordost power cords for my Node 2i and Oppo 103D and I'm convinced they make a difference.


----------



## nc8000

I’m using the cheapest IsoTek Powercord for my TA


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> Haha. Why so emotional. Simply lighten up. No big deal. Look at it like being in the supermarket and seeing someone buy something you don’t like. It’s what they are into. If someone was buying a big jar of pickles you wouldn’t get worked up; even though you don’t like pickles.


First of all, I love pickles OK? Don't you dare suggest otherwise!  
Then, it really is no big deal... a few tears here and there make for a healthy stress release.  But your illustration is incorrect. This is more like seeing someone at the supermarket shopping for ingredients to make an apple pie and leaving with a bag of nails.    


Gadget67 said:


> The WM1Z is heavy (as you know) and it just does not feel secure enough in the cradle when changing songs or albums.  The downside of using the USB/adapter is that the device isn’t charging.  i do like the cradle because it is at eye level.  First world problems, but I’ll struggle through it!


The side cable works fine for charging my ZX300. Doesn't it also work for the 1Z? 


JerryHead said:


> So, using a surge protector is not going to impact (degrade) the sound in any way?  This is my fear..


Fears are good. _They keep you sharp, on your toes, where you gotta be._


JerryHead said:


> okay, guess I deserved that, lol! I have a power conditioner for my AVR and other components, but it's a $400 one, not $3k.  And I have Nordost power cords for my Node 2i and Oppo 103D and I'm convinced they make a difference.


They certainly do make a difference... for your wallet.


----------



## JerryHead

candlejack said:


> First of all, I love pickles OK? Don't you dare suggest otherwise!
> Then, it really is no big deal... a few tears here and there make for a healthy stress release.  But your illustration is incorrect. This is more like seeing someone at the supermarket shopping for ingredients to make an apple pie and leaving with a bag of nails.
> 
> The side cable works fine for charging my ZX300. Doesn't it also work for the 1Z?
> ...


Ha!  Very true.  Okay, here’s the cable I settled on:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F7QKARU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1


----------



## JerryHead

Is the XLR output the best balanced connection of em’ all?  Better than the 4.4?


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> Is the XLR output the best balanced connection of em’ all?  Better than the 4.4?



Never tried it but would expect them to be identical


----------



## candlejack

JerryHead said:


> Is the XLR output the best balanced connection of em’ all?  Better than the 4.4?


Better in what way? The 4.4 looks like a great universal design: compact yet sturdy enough.


----------



## JerryHead

candlejack said:


> Better in what way? The 4.4 looks like a great universal design: compact yet sturdy enough.


with regards to SQ


----------



## Gadget67

JerryHead said:


> Is the XLR output the best balanced connection of em’ all?  Better than the 4.4?


They are identical to my ears but you should try both and see which you like best.  Most of my cables are XLR and I sometimes use an XLR to 4.4 converter when using my WM1Z.


----------



## JerryHead

Gadget67 said:


> They are identical to my ears but you should try both and see which you like best.  Most of my cables are XLR and I sometimes use an XLR to 4.4 converter when using my WM1Z.


Great idea.  Can I ask the make of your converter?


----------



## Gadget67

JerryHead said:


> Great idea.  Can I ask the make of your converter?


Moon Audio.  You can configure it here:
https://www.moon-audio.com/moon-audio-silver-dragon-v3-extension-adapter-cable.html


----------



## Redcarmoose

JerryHead said:


> Is the XLR output the best balanced connection of em’ all?  Better than the 4.4?


Some have used that XLR with an XLR to 4.4mm adapter. Strangely we just found out single ended is louder than 4.4mm? So it makes you wonder if XLR is the same output at the same volume # as single ended?


----------



## JerryHead

Redcarmoose said:


> Some have used that XLR with an XLR to 4.4mm adapter. Strangely we just found out single ended is louder than 4.4mm? So it makes you wonder if XLR is the same output at the same volume # as single ended?


but, XLR is clearly louder, and better SQ than 4.4?


----------



## JerryHead

Unless I'm missing something, SE is not balanced though.  Maybe louder but you'd be losing the balanced


----------



## JerryHead

Redcarmoose said:


> Some have used that XLR with an XLR to 4.4mm adapter. Strangely we just found out single ended is louder than 4.4mm? So it makes you wonder if XLR is the same output at the same volume # as single ended?


but, is XLR louder than both 4.4 and SE?


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> but, is XLR louder than both 4.4 and SE?



XLR and 4.4 ought to be identical


----------



## JerryHead

nc8000 said:


> XLR and 4.4 ought to be identical


I see, so it's mixed bag. SE is louder than the other two, but not balanced.  Funny that SE would be louder.


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> I see, so it's mixed bag. SE is louder than the other two, but not balanced.  Funny that SE would be louder.



Single ended is single ended and balanced is balanced, two different things. I have no idea if single ended is louder, have never used any of them nor the xlr, only the 4.4


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> Strangely we just found out single ended is louder than 4.4mm?


I think you are referring to my post a while ago. It only noticed this with the HD600 (300 Ohm), so it's probably impossible to make a universal statement about which output is louder. 

According to the official specs (btw, any idea what the 1% is about?):
Balanced: 1,200 mW + 1,200 mW (1% @ 32 Ohms, 1 kHz) 
Unbalanced: 300 mW + 300 mW (1% @ 32 Ohms, 1 kHz) 

So for low impedance headphones the balanced output is around 4x more powerful (i.e. 6 dB). Not a big deal.


----------



## JerryHead

I realize the TA is made for headphones, not IEMs, but can anyone say how the SE846s sound through the TA?


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> I realize the TA is made for headphones, not IEMs, but can anyone say how the SE846s sound through the TA?



It certainly sounds excelent with the IER-Z1R


----------



## Gadget67

nc8000 said:


> It certainly sounds excelent with the IER-Z1R


Yes, it does!


----------



## Redcarmoose

JerryHead said:


> I realize the TA is made for headphones, not IEMs, but can anyone say how the SE846s sound through the TA?



No it’s also made for IEMs, in fact it’s one of the best desktops for IEMs. No hiss. Haven’t tried the Shure IEMs but it’s great with all of them I own.


----------



## JerryHead

Redcarmoose said:


> No it’s also made for IEMs, in fact it’s one of the best desktops for IEMs. No hiss. Haven’t tried the Shure IEMs but it’s great with all of them I own.


best output for IEMs is probably the 4.4, huh?


----------



## Redcarmoose

JerryHead said:


> best output for IEMs is probably the 4.4, huh?



At times the 4.4mm does seem better, but 3.5mm is fine too. The coolest XLR4 to 4.4mm adapter looked just like a regular XLR4 plug with no cable coming out, and you plugged your 4.4mm where the cable would go.


----------



## Lookout57

Redcarmoose said:


> At times the 4.4mm does seem better, but 3.5mm is fine too. The coolest XLR4 to 4.4mm adapter looked just like a regular XLR4 plug with no cable coming out, and you plugged your 4.4mm where the cable would go.


Like this one? https://wooaudio.com/accessories/4-pin-xlr-to-pentaconn-adapter


----------



## Redcarmoose

Lookout57 said:


> Like this one? https://wooaudio.com/accessories/4-pin-xlr-to-pentaconn-adapter



It was Furutech 
This was all it was.


----------



## JerryHead

LOL!  Well, I suppose those would both be good solutions, depending on which cable you're using in the first place..


----------



## JerryHead

so, I'm a little confused.  Is the TA going to sound exactly the same if it's playing a track off the Sony WM1A, as say, compared to that same track from an Android DAP?  The DAP, or whatever is holding the track, acts simply as a storage drive, correct?  Or, is there some kind of synergy between the source device and the TA that impacts the resulting sound?


----------



## candlejack

JerryHead said:


> so, I'm a little confused.  Is the TA going to sound exactly the same if it's playing a track off the Sony WM1A, as say, compared to that same track from an Android DAP?  The DAP, or whatever is holding the track, acts simply as a storage drive, correct?  Or, is there some kind of synergy between the source device and the TA that impacts the resulting sound?


If you're going to believe that the USB cable makes a difference, then certainly the player will also make a difference. I'm not even trolling this time.


----------



## JerryHead

candlejack said:


> If you're going to believe that the USB cable makes a difference, then certainly the player will also make a difference. I'm not even trolling this time.


Yeh, well Im just asking. Just looking for opinions. I’m reading conflicting information about this.


----------



## candlejack

JerryHead said:


> Yeh, well Im just asking. Just looking for opinions. I’m reading conflicting information about this.


Just some friendly advice: wait for your TA to arrive and then just listen to music, see how much you enjoy it. Leave the worrying about how you can get the best out of it for later.


----------



## Rob49

Guys, i have the Sony MDR-Z1R's & was thinking of buying the Sennheiser HD820's & wondered how they compared with the TA ( & without. ) ?


----------



## JerryHead

candlejack said:


> Just some friendly advice: wait for your TA to arrive and then just listen to music, see how much you enjoy it. Leave the worrying about how you can get the best out of it for later.


no worrying involved.  I'm still within the return period for my WM1A and was thinking about returning it if I get the exact same out of the TA when it's connected to my Android DAP, as I do with my 1A.


----------



## candlejack

JerryHead said:


> no worrying involved.  I'm still within the return period for my WM1A and was thinking about returning it if I get the exact same out of the TA when it's connected to my Android DAP, as I do with my 1A.


If that's going to be your only use for the 1A, then the _reasonable_ thing to do would be to return it.


----------



## Damz87

Redcarmoose said:


> No it’s also made for IEMs, in fact it’s one of the best desktops for IEMs. No hiss. Haven’t tried the Shure IEMs but it’s great with all of them I own.



It's amazing how good the TA is for IEM's. No hiss at all with a Campfire Solaris through 4.4mm.


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> If that's going to be your only use for the 1A, then the _reasonable_ thing to do would be to return it.



Totally agree. I would not buy a 1A if it’s only use is to feed the TA


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 30, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> so, I'm a little confused.  Is the TA going to sound exactly the same if it's playing a track off the Sony WM1A, as say, compared to that same track from an Android DAP?  The DAP, or whatever is holding the track, acts simply as a storage drive, correct?  Or, is there some kind of synergy between the source device and the TA that impacts the resulting sound?



Your now getting to my main motivation for purchases. My main goal was to get away from computer audio. Now many would say using the Walkmans as a digital source IS computer audio as the Walkmans are in essence mini computers.

But my paranoia started around 2010. I had moved and couldn’t take my room size vinyl collection with me. I started to use various computer-audio systems. Though I had troubles with what sounded like song pace. And stuff like adding WASAPI to Foobar2000 actually helped, and made me realize that digital audio did have quality control issues. At the time I had previously thought 0s were 0s and 1s would always be 1s. I also thought that digital audio was more convoluted than I previously believed  as each music player software sounded different to me.

I end up moving to transport and CD as a way to avoid computers, and would basically stay that way for years.

So then I saw the 1Z/1A and realized that they could play music without a computer. Later I also realized that using the Walkmans as sources to the TA would be different than a computer; and it is. Adding the Cradle and AQCarbon was simply refining the process a step farther.

In this hobby there is a lot to be learned by confirming with your ears. In many ways it can be paralleled to cooking. Ingredients make a difference then taste is the judge.

But just like cooking experiments can help, remember the transport? Well it sounds horrible hooking up the RCA digital cable to the back of the TA. So (in my uses) it’s better to rip CDs to the Walkmans. I don’t question the reasons why. Much of this too is like guitars. It doesn’t really matter what the price is, each guitar is different, even from one to another of the same brand/model. The way you know if a guitar is good is by listening. There is no scientific test, no other way to tell how good they are.


----------



## JerryHead

Redcarmoose said:


> Your now getting to my main motivation for purchases. My main goal was to get away from computer audio. Now many would say using the Walkmans as a digital source IS computer audio as the Walkmans are in essence mini computers.
> 
> But my paranoia started around 2010. I had moved and couldn’t take my room size vinyl collection with me. I started to use various computer-audio systems. Though I had troubles with what sounded like song pace. And stuff like adding WASAPI to Foobar2000 actually helped, and made me realize that digital audio did have quality control issues. At the time I had previously thought 0s were 0s and 1s would always be 1s. I also thought that digital audio was more convoluted than I previously believed  as each music player software sounded different to me.
> 
> ...


huh, well, there's a different perspective for you, and I do appreciate hearing some diverse opinions.  This opens up the possibility that the source does in fact matter, can actually impact the resulting sound.


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 31, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> huh, well, there's a different perspective for you, and I do appreciate hearing some diverse opinions.  This opens up the possibility that the source does in fact matter, can actually impact the resulting sound.



It’s maybe easier to hear when folks are given extreme differences? Though the best and most complete theory is that everything matters.

https://www.schiit.com/products/modi-1



https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/dave/



$10,000
VS
$99
 There is a reason one is more than 150X more.

_DAC setup:_
Chord Hugo2 ($2400)
Chord DAVE ($10000)
Chord Blu2 mScaler ($10000)


----------



## Redcarmoose

candlejack said:


> First of all, I love pickles OK? Don't you dare suggest otherwise!
> Then, it really is no big deal... a few tears here and there make for a healthy stress release.  But your illustration is incorrect. This is more like seeing someone at the supermarket shopping for ingredients to make an apple pie and leaving with a bag of nails.
> 
> The side cable works fine for charging my ZX300. Doesn't it also work for the 1Z?
> ...


“Bag of nails! “ “Bag of nails?”


----------



## candlejack (May 31, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


> https://www.schiit.com/products/modi-1
> https://chordelectronics.co.uk/product/dave/
> $10,000
> VS
> ...


There's probably more than one reason, but the main reason is because some people believe there is a reason.


----------



## Gadget67

JerryHead said:


> huh, well, there's a different perspective for you, and I do appreciate hearing some diverse opinions.  This opens up the possibility that the source does in fact matter, can actually impact the resulting sound.


You’ve asked lots of good questions about what to expect from the TA and I am sure you are anxiously awaiting It’s arrival.  I do believe you need to take a step or two back, keep an open mind and just see how you feel about it after evaluating your own set up for at least a few weeks.  My own set up has evolved slowly over time and each change, addition or tweak can have unintended effects on the entire sequence.  Do your own evaluation of your two source devices and see how they sound to you.  We can all give you our opinions but what YOU hear is all that matters.  Otherwise you are asking how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and I really can’t help you with that (I think it’s six BTW).  As Redcarmoose has pointed out, you’ll learn the most from listening with your own ears.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Interesting how Moose points out that it can make a difference just using the 1A and a couple of additives. Perhaps using the 1Z as a source to the TA is not pointless with or without the cradle?


----------



## JerryHead

Gadget67 said:


> You’ve asked lots of good questions about what to expect from the TA and I am sure you are anxiously awaiting It’s arrival.  I do believe you need to take a step or two back, keep an open mind and just see how you feel about it after evaluating your own set up for at least a few weeks.  My own set up has evolved slowly over time and each change, addition or tweak can have unintended effects on the entire sequence.  Do your own evaluation of your two source devices and see how they sound to you.  We can all give you our opinions but what YOU hear is all that matters.  Otherwise you are asking how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and I really can’t help you with that (I think it’s six BTW).  As Redcarmoose has pointed out, you’ll learn the most from listening with your own ears.


Sounds like good advice. Okay, will do so.  It should arrive about mid week next week, and I'm eager to "have a listen."  Will most likely be using the 1A through the included walkman cable for the first several weeks.


----------



## Fsilva

Well i´ve sold my TA, moved to RME with an Aries Mini with a 2TB SSD with all my music...and never looked back...
Although my WM1A still holds the king of daps place for me!


----------



## Gamerlingual

Fsilva said:


> Well i´ve sold my TA, moved to RME with an Aries Mini with a 2TB SSD with all my music...and never looked back...
> Although my WM1A still holds the king of daps place for me!


Wow, so the Sony NW-WM1A can be a substitute for the iFi Hip DAC?


----------



## Fsilva

Gamerlingual said:


> iFi Hip DAC


No idea what his the iFi Hip DAC.
What i´m saying is that the TA didn´t sound as good to me as my RME unit, also the price the TA goes for... and the price of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS....
Not trying to hijack the thread here, but when i read most of your comments about audio quality and using the TA still connected to a PC or MAC...
I´ve been on that route before...


----------



## Gamerlingual (May 31, 2020)

Fsilva said:


> No idea what his the iFi Hip DAC.
> What i´m saying is that the TA didn´t sound as good to me as my RME unit, also the price the TA goes for... and the price of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS....
> Not trying to hijack the thread here, but when i read most of your comments about audio quality and using the TA still connected to a PC or MAC...
> I´ve been on that route before...


If it can be a substitute, I'll give it a try. But from what I sampled with the TA at Yodobashi Camera, it sounded nice.


----------



## nc8000

Fsilva said:


> No idea what his the iFi Hip DAC.
> What i´m saying is that the TA didn´t sound as good to me as my RME unit, also the price the TA goes for... and the price of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS....
> Not trying to hijack the thread here, but when i read most of your comments about audio quality and using the TA still connected to a PC or MAC...
> I´ve been on that route before...



Looks like a nice unit with lots of features for a lot less than the TA. One thing it looks like it is missing is balanced headphone connections wich seem strange considering that it has balanced line out


----------



## adrianm

Hey guys,new member here but been reading head-fi threads for a few years now,i actually owe my current setup to this thread (and the z1r thread) (ta-zh1es + z1r).Since audiophiles are a fickle bunch i know most people don't own both of them anymore but i had the z1r's for 2+ years now (3k serial number) and just got the ta-zh1es a month ago,been using it with a chord mojo up untill now .Learned quite a few things over the past month : burn in is real (never noticed it as much as with the ta-zh1es before) , clean power matters ( using an isotek sirius + power chords improved the TA-ZH1ES drastically,i would say as big of a jump as from the mojo almost ) ,apparently even usb cables make a difference ( had a real tough time believing that one,untill i got a chord c-line 3m usb) im 90% happy with the setup ( though it is a bit bass heavy on some tracks) .I'm waiting on a sony kimber balanced cable from Japan now and considering replacing my power hungry gaming pc as a source with a dedicated streamer.Any experience/suggestion? I'm purely looking for sound quality improvements and considering an Auralic Aries g1 but i don't know if the upgrade will be as huge as people claim it is with speaker systems and considering it costs as much as the dac i'm not sure if a dac upgrade further down the line would make more sense.I'm familiar with all the Rendus and power supplies and Sotm's but they aren't that appealing to me.


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> Hey guys,new member here but been reading head-fi threads for a few years now,i actually owe my current setup to this thread (and the z1r thread) (ta-zh1es + z1r).Since audiophiles are a fickle bunch i know most people don't own both of them anymore but i had the z1r's for 2+ years now (3k serial number) and just got the ta-zh1es a month ago,been using it with a chord mojo up untill now .Learned quite a few things over the past month : burn in is real (never noticed it as much as with the ta-zh1es before) , clean power matters ( using an isotek sirius + power chords improved the TA-ZH1ES drastically,i would say as big of a jump as from the mojo almost ) ,apparently even usb cables make a difference ( had a real tough time believing that one,untill i got a chord c-line 3m usb) im 90% happy with the setup ( though it is a bit bass heavy on some tracks) .I'm waiting on a sony kimber balanced cable from Japan now and considering replacing my power hungry gaming pc as a source with a dedicated streamer.Any experience/suggestion? I'm purely looking for sound quality improvements and considering an Auralic Aries g1 but i don't know if the upgrade will be as huge as people claim it is with speaker systems and considering it costs as much as the dac i'm not sure if a dac upgrade further down the line would make more sense.I'm familiar with all the Rendus and power supplies and Sotm's but they aren't that appealing to me.



I’ve had the TA with the MDR-Z1R with Kimber Axios CU cable fed from an Auralic Aries Mini with a 2TB ssd and the upgraded psu using IsoTeks cheapest power chords for 3 1/2 years now and have had no desire to upgrade. The usb cable is a short 20 cm braided made by a friend of mine (I have no idea what the wire is).


----------



## adrianm

nc8000 said:


> I’ve had the TA with the MDR-Z1R with Kimber Axios CU cable fed from an Auralic Aries Mini with a 2TB ssd and the upgraded psu using IsoTeks cheapest power chords for 3 1/2 years now and have had no desire to upgrade. The usb cable is a short 20 cm braided made by a friend of mine (I have no idea what the wire is).


Did you use the TA with a pc/laptop before the Aries by any chance? I'm curious how big the difference would be.Also do you use any mains filters/sine wave regenerators,etc?


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 1, 2020)

adrianm said:


> Did you use the TA with a pc/laptop before the Aries by any chance? I'm curious how big the difference would be.Also do you use any mains filters/sine wave regenerators,etc?



I used it about 1 month with an ancient Acer netbook with Windows and foobar and consider the Aries a noticable upgrade. However the Acer was feeding the TA optically where the Aries is usb so that could also have an effect. Today my tv is going optical into the TA. 

Don’t use any power conditioning gadgets. Used to have an IsoTek thing (can’t remember the model) but after my house was rewired 10 years ago it’t didn’t make any difference I could detect so I sold it


----------



## adrianm

nc8000 said:


> I used it about 1 month with an ancient Acer netbook with Windows and foobar and consider the Aries a noticable upgrade. However the Acer was feeding the TA optically where the Aries is usb so that could also have an effect. Today my tv is going optical into the TA.
> 
> Don’t use any power conditioning gadgets. Used to have an IsoTek thing (can’t remember the model) but after my house was rewired 10 years ago it’t didn’t make any difference I could detect so I sold it


That's interesting, for me it might make such a huge difference cause i have all my electronics (pc,monitor,router,etc ,etc ) into the same outlet right next to each other. Isn't optical supposed to be jitter free ? Since the mini isn't available anymore and everyone praises the G1 so much i figured i might as well go for it if i get a good discount and it's really that noticeable.I'm exclusively streaming from tidal (been doing it since i've started this journey 3 years ago) but considering switching to amazon ultra hd once it's available here,any suggestions? As a transport, i know the lumin u1 mini has a way to do the second unfold (and get the full 192 khz) and feed it to the TA as if it were an MQA enabled dac.That might be worthwhile vs the G1,but then again the whole MQA lossy debacle might actually make it that irrelevant.


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> That's interesting, for me it might make such a huge difference cause i have all my electronics (pc,monitor,router,etc ,etc ) into the same outlet right next to each other. Isn't optical supposed to be jitter free ? Since the mini isn't available anymore and everyone praises the G1 so much i figured i might as well go for it if i get a good discount and it's really that noticeable.I'm exclusively streaming from tidal (been doing it since i've started this journey 3 years ago) but considering switching to amazon ultra hd once it's available here,any suggestions? As a transport, i know the lumin u1 mini has a way to do the second unfold (and get the full 192 khz) and feed it to the TA as if it were an MQA enabled dac.That might be worthwhile vs the G1,but then again the whole MQA lossy debacle might actually make it that irrelevant.



Yes optical is supposed to be jitter free but I only think it goes up to 24/96 but I’m not sure. My main reason for the Mini was that it supported a build in drive for all my music although I now also have Tidal and the integration of that into the Auralic Lightning DS app is really good and does full mqa unfolding. Be aware that the Lightning DS is only for iOS as far as I know


----------



## adrianm

nc8000 said:


> Yes optical is supposed to be jitter free but I only think it goes up to 24/96 but I’m not sure. My main reason for the Mini was that it supported a build in drive for all my music although I now also have Tidal and the integration of that into the Auralic Lightning DS app is really good and does full mqa unfolding. Be aware that the Lightning DS is only for iOS as far as I know


Oh,i had no idea Auralic had the same MQA implementation as the Lumin. Thanks for the info,this place is awesome


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 1, 2020)

adrianm said:


> Oh,i had no idea Auralic had the same MQA implementation as the Lumin. Thanks for the info,this place is awesome



On top of Tidal these services are also supported






And the Mini seems to be still available from retailers in at least Denmark and UK


----------



## adrianm

Thanks, i know that only IOS is supported and that's fine with me, i'm mostly using apple products,but would rather not get a separate Ipad instead of  the phone (which is kinda small ) I saw on their website you could use some open source software to control the G1 from Windows,which would be much easier since i listen while i'm working from home a lot these days,any experience with that?


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> Thanks, i know that only IOS is supported and that's fine with me, i'm mostly using apple products,but would rather not get a separate Ipad instead of  the phone (which is kinda small ) I saw on their website you could use some open source software to control the G1 from Windows,which would be much easier since i listen while i'm working from home a lot these days,any experience with that?



No I have not tried that but as I understand that only supports the most basic operations and none of the streaming services. I use Lightning DS from both my iPhone8 and my iPad. The Mini seems to still be available from at leadt Danish and UK retailers


----------



## adrianm

Oh,didn't see that part ,thanks .I see the mini + linear psu upgrade is almost 3 times cheaper than the G1,i wonder if the SQ difference would be noticeable with the TA.I want to get the most out of it,but tbh 2.2k euros is a lot for a streamer,plus it's another huge box on my desk that i don't really want.I was just thinking if i eventually go crazy and go for a Dave or something that supposedly blows the TA out of the water,i wouldn't need to upgrade the streamer as well.But i might be reading too many forums at this point.


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> Oh,didn't see that part ,thanks .I see the mini + linear psu upgrade is almost 3 times cheaper than the G1,i wonder if the SQ difference would be noticeable with the TA.I want to get the most out of it,but tbh 2.2k euros is a lot for a streamer,plus it's another huge box on my desk that i don't really want.I was just thinking if i eventually go crazy and go for a Dave or something that supposedly blows the TA out of the water,i wouldn't need to upgrade the streamer as well.But i might be reading too many forums at this point.



It certainly is a big price difference. I don’t know how much better the G1 might be but I’ve not felt the Mini to be lacking.


----------



## adrianm

I've stalked this forum so much i actually know this rig already ) Looks nice and tidy  .I know at one point the thread was going crazy about the portable players and dock combo for sound quality, how would you compare that to the Aries mini?


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> I've stalked this forum so much i actually know this rig already ) Looks nice and tidy  .I know at one point the thread was going crazy about the portable players and dock combo for sound quality, how would you compare that to the Aries mini?



I’ve never tried to connect the 1Z to the TA, it is used with the IER-Z1R as my travel rig and in the garden at home in summer


----------



## adrianm

I found a thread here with someone claiming it's a big upgrade over the mini,so big that he ordered a second one to use with lcd2+qutest: 
https://community.auralic.com/t/ari...-kii-three-improvement-problem-solved/4876/31
Might be a classic case of more money than sense,but seems at least worth an audition.Any impressions on Qutest/Hugo2 with Z1r vs the TA? I mean i like Chord (i've had a Mojo for 3-4 years) but i liked the TA a lot more than the Hugo 2 with the Z1r. When i compared it with the Mojo the upgrade didn't seem worth it to me  but completely different story with the TA,especially balanced.Everyone's making such a big deal about everything Chord that i'm genuinely curious to hear the Dave.


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> I found a thread here with someone claiming it's a big upgrade over the mini,so big that he ordered a second one to use with lcd2+qutest:
> https://community.auralic.com/t/ari...-kii-three-improvement-problem-solved/4876/31
> Might be a classic case of more money than sense,but seems at least worth an audition.Any impressions on Qutest/Hugo2 with Z1r vs the TA? I mean i like Chord (i've had a Mojo for 3-4 years) but i liked the TA a lot more than the Hugo 2 with the Z1r. When i compared it with the Mojo the upgrade didn't seem worth it to me  but completely different story with the TA,especially balanced.Everyone's making such a big deal about everything Chord that i'm genuinely curious to hear the Dave.



Never heard any Chord


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Might be a classic case of more money than sense,but seems at least worth an audition.


Someone who believes in the magic of power cables and burnin really shouldn't judge.


----------



## adrianm

Well i think and noticed that it's more the mains filter making the difference than the cables themselves, they do change the sound a little bit themselves but hard to objectively argue if it's good or bad,whereas the filter made everything objectively better.Was looking for the same kind of information regarding the streamer, but in my experience a lot people on forums just like to show off the latest stuff, which is fine,to each his own.I just don't find those people reliable sources of information.Less so on head-fi vs high end speaker forums


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Well i think and noticed that it's more the mains filter making the difference than the cables themselves, they do change the sound a little bit themselves but hard to objectively argue if it's good or bad,whereas the filter made everything objectively better.Was looking for the same kind of information regarding the streamer, but in my experience a lot people on forums just like to show off the latest stuff, which is fine,to each his own.I just don't find those people reliable sources of information.Less so on head-fi vs high end speaker forums


I hate to be a stickler (do I though?) but "objectively better" would require some kind of measurement, and I really doubt there is one. But I'd love to be proven wrong. 

Btw, don't you thing that an amplifier already has some power conditioning circuitry built-in, or do you think that it isn't as good a separate dedicated component?

If you seek information, Mr. Beekhuyzen on YT has a bunch of videos on streamers. He appears very knowledgeable and is very convincing. It seems to me that his beliefs align well with yours, so you might find his channel useful. However, I have to say that, in my opinion, he uses reasonable arguments to push false conclusions (I've yet to decide if he does it on purpose), but you can judge for yourself.


----------



## Redcarmoose

> Normally 1.00 and 1.03 are easy to find. Here are the other two firmwares.
> http://hav.update.sony.net/UDA/Updater/Win/Sony Headphone Amplifier Updater(Win)_v1.0.1.zip
> 
> http://hav.update.sony.net/UDA/Updater/Win/Sony Headphone Amplifier Updater(Win)_v1.0.2.zip


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> I hate to be a stickler (do I though?) but "objectively better" would require some kind of measurement, and I really doubt there is one. But I'd love to be proven wrong.
> 
> Btw, don't you thing that an amplifier already has some power conditioning circuitry built-in, or do you think that it isn't as good a separate dedicated component?
> 
> If you seek information, Mr. Beekhuyzen on YT has a bunch of videos on streamers. He appears very knowledgeable and is very convincing. It seems to me that his beliefs align well with yours, so you might find his channel useful. However, I have to say that, in my opinion, he uses reasonable arguments to push false conclusions (I've yet to decide if he does it on purpose), but you can judge for yourself.



Well to me the difference was so drastic that i realized i had a problem when i plugged it in and in some areas the TA seemed worse than the Mojo ( midrange clarity,bass tightness,separation).And when i got the Mojo i remember Rob Watts explaining on a thread that most of the improvements of the Mojo can be attributed to lower noise floor.  While i'm sure there's all kinds of engineering going into the Mojo,it is also battery powered and i thought that could be the cause of the difference (Power aside,even the Mojo always seemed to me like it sounded better from my work laptops than my gaming pc at home ).So i figured i'd try an Isotek Sirius since i didn't want to go too crazy and read that the Polaris is not that effective.And it really blew me away, when i said objectively,while it may not be literal,the difference was so big that no a/b testing was required.It might just be cause my apartment building was built in '82 and because i draw so much power from that one outlet where i have the TA plugged in,YMMV,but i think it's worth trying out considering it's less than most headphone cables.This also got me thinking if battery power is part of the reason why some people prefer the Hugo 2 over the TA and the conditions of the testing. I've discovered Hans channel about a week ago researching streamers and he does seem to know what he's talking about,and objective,but i have a hard time believing the 80% differences between some streamers (maybe in his 30 k speaker system? ) What conclusions are you referring to? 
      I've learned to take reviewers opinions with a grain of salt since getting the Oppo pm-3's that Tyll enthusiastically recommended and while they were good, they kinda felt dead to me,and i've used them for over a year.When his review of the Z1R's came out i already had mine and it mostly validated my choice tbh.Same thing with what hi-fi,Johny Darko,etc.Seems like the newest thing is almost always best.


----------



## adrianm

While researching streamers i've also come across this review which measures Jitter on a Mojo and it seems to allign with what i've been hearing,that even through a jitterbug (which seems to make a bit more difference to the TA,but i couldn't A/B it for the life of me on a Mojo) there is a difference between a well constructed streamer and a pc :
https://www.hifinews.com/content/pr...network-bridge-lab-report#OTDIILVVPit26jtz.99
whether or not you can actually hear this is another thing,but if we take Rob Watts and the others for their words...a streamer might make sense.Or going optical,but apparently there are some magic cooties there that need to be addressed too,and someone will gladly sell you a toy for 2k.


----------



## Rob49

Guys ( & Girls. ) i'm looking for feedback from owners of the Focal Stellia headphones with the TA ?? Seriously thinking of buying another headphone to compliment my others, one being the Sony MDR-Z1R's.

Thanks.


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> Guys ( & Girls. ) i'm looking for feedback from owners of the Focal Stellia headphones with the TA ?? Seriously thinking of buying another headphone to compliment my others, one being the Sony MDR-Z1R's.
> 
> Thanks.


+1


----------



## Gadget67

Rob49 said:


> Guys ( & Girls. ) i'm looking for feedback from owners of the Focal Stellia headphones with the TA ?? Seriously thinking of buying another headphone to compliment my others, one being the Sony MDR-Z1R's.
> 
> Thanks.


I own both the Stellia and MDR-Z1R and have used both with the TA.  The Stellia is EASILY the absolute best closed headphone I’ve ever used; the sound is neutral, accurate and there is detail galore.  I’m usually skeptical when it comes to glowing reviews (and I read lots of them before purchasing) but the Stellia lives up to the hype.  I also own the Utopia and the Stellia is it’s equal in my opinion.  The MDR-Z1R is also a really good set of Headphones but it is hard to describe other than to say the sound seems artificial to me.  If you like bass, and what some have described as the Sony house sound, these may be for you.  They are very comfortable but the Stellia comes away as the clear winner to me after extensive comparisons.  Both are easily driven by the TA.  I’d read the Stellia thread for more context:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-stellia-review-measurements-interview-head-fi-tv.899912/

Good luck!  You really can’t go wrong with the Stellia in my opinion.


----------



## nc8000

Gadget67 said:


> I own both the Stellia and MDR-Z1R and have used both with the TA.  The Stellia is EASILY the absolute best closed headphone I’ve ever used; the sound is neutral, accurate and there is detail galore.  I’m usually skeptical when it comes to glowing reviews (and I read lots of them before purchasing) but the Stellia lives up to the hype.  I also own the Utopia and the Stellia is it’s equal in my opinion.  The MDR-Z1R is also a really good set of Headphones but it is hard to describe other than to say the sound seems artificial to me.  If you like bass, and what some have described as the Sony house sound, these may be for you.  They are very comfortable but the Stellia comes away as the clear winner to me after extensive comparisons.  Both are easily driven by the TA.  I’d read the Stellia thread for more context:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-stellia-review-measurements-interview-head-fi-tv.899912/
> 
> Good luck!  You really can’t go wrong with the Stellia in my opinion.



I've never tried the Stelia, but that desctiption would make me not want them as I love the musical, euphonic and yes coloured sound of the MDR


----------



## adrianm (Jun 2, 2020)

[QU


Gadget67 said:


> I own both the Stellia and MDR-Z1R and have used both with the TA.  The Stellia is EASILY the absolute best closed headphone I’ve ever used; the sound is neutral, accurate and there is detail galore.  I’m usually skeptical when it comes to glowing reviews (and I read lots of them before purchasing) but the Stellia lives up to the hype.  I also own the Utopia and the Stellia is it’s equal in my opinion.  The MDR-Z1R is also a really good set of Headphones but it is hard to describe other than to say the sound seems artificial to me.  If you like bass, and what some have described as the Sony house sound, these may be for you.  They are very comfortable but the Stellia comes away as the clear winner to me after extensive comparisons.  Both are easily driven by the TA.  I’d read the Stellia thread for more context:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-stellia-review-measurements-interview-head-fi-tv.899912/
> 
> Good luck!  You really can’t go wrong with the Stellia in my opinion.



That's unfortunate ,lol. Do you perceive the Stellia's as having more resolution,or do you think details are harder to follow on the Z1R's due to the tuning? Are you using them both with the TA at the moment or did you get something else for the Focals? I ,for one, had some Oppo pm-3's which were considered pretty neutral (kinda like the Stellias,but not on the same level ofc) and , while i perceived them as being really detailed, after a year i got bored with them and found myself wanting more bass and more musicality.


----------



## Rob49

Gadget67 said:


> I own both the Stellia and MDR-Z1R and have used both with the TA.  The Stellia is EASILY the absolute best closed headphone I’ve ever used; the sound is neutral, accurate and there is detail galore.  I’m usually skeptical when it comes to glowing reviews (and I read lots of them before purchasing) but the Stellia lives up to the hype.  I also own the Utopia and the Stellia is it’s equal in my opinion.  The MDR-Z1R is also a really good set of Headphones but it is hard to describe other than to say the sound seems artificial to me.  If you like bass, and what some have described as the Sony house sound, these may be for you.  They are very comfortable but the Stellia comes away as the clear winner to me after extensive comparisons.  Both are easily driven by the TA.  I’d read the Stellia thread for more context:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-stellia-review-measurements-interview-head-fi-tv.899912/
> 
> Good luck!  You really can’t go wrong with the Stellia in my opinion.



Thanks for the feedback, i've found it most helpful & i will definitely be reading through the Stellia thread.

I bought my Z1R's about a year ago now & within a short space of time i loved them, but just lately i'm either loving them or really disliking them. There is an harshness there with the treble that i don't think i was aware of in the begining ?? ( & yes i have other cables, other than the stock one. )

I actually like bass & i also own the Sony 1am2's and i love these because of the bass. ( Well, oneof the reasons. ) I'd say more bass than the Z1R's. I thought the Z1R's were good with everything.....now i'm not so sure ??

I'm really looking for that headphone that isn't harsh with the treble or any part of the sound spectrum. I've read plenty of reviews during the last 24hrs or so & i'm being inclined to go for them, even though very expensive, but it's a product for a lifetime, if you like them ??


----------



## candlejack

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for the feedback, i've found it most helpful & i will definitely be reading through the Stellia thread.
> 
> I bought my Z1R's about a year ago now & within a short space of time i loved them, but just lately i'm either loving them or really disliking them. There is an harshness there with the treble that i don't think i was aware of in the begining ?? ( & yes i have other cables, other than the stock one. )
> 
> ...


If you want more muted/smooth treble and like bass a lot, why not Audeze?


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> [QU
> 
> 
> That's unfortunate ,lol. Do you perceive the Stellia's as having more resolution,or do you think details are harder to follow on the Z1R's due to the tuning? Are you using them both with the TA at the moment or did you get something else for the Focals? I ,for one, had some Oppo pm-3's which were considered pretty neutral (kinda like the Stellias,but not on the same level ofc) and , while i perceived them as being really detailed, after a year i got bored with them and found myself wanting more bass and more musicality.


I’m only offering an opinion, not a full fledged review.  Both seem to be equally resolving (slight edge to Stellia) but they sound different.  I prefer the Stellia but I still use the Z1R occasionally.  I’ve recently added an SPL Phonitor 2 and am currently using the Sony as a DAC for the most part.  I like variety, so I do switch to my other headphones for something different (Audeze LCD-X, Utopia, Z1R, Stellia, etc).


----------



## adrianm

I sometime feel the way Rob does,but i wouldn't part with the Z1R's. The Stellia's seem to complement them perfectly, but they are kinda expensive and i've read they do get discoloured easily on the Stellia thread .
Out of curiosity, has anyone heard any of these with a higher end dac like the Dave? is there really a whole other level to be gained by upgrading like people who own it/them like to claim?


----------



## Rob49

candlejack said:


> If you want more muted/smooth treble and like bass a lot, why not Audeze?



Sonic option sounds promising, but they don't look like the kind of headphone i could lay on my side, which i have to. I manage to lay on my side wearing the Z1R's, for a short period, when i didn't think it would be possible....i'd also say they're at a price, briefly looking, that i'm not prepared to pay, but thanks for the feedback / suggestion. ( If i did go for the Stellia's, i wouldn't be laying on my side with them, or risk it. )


----------



## candlejack

Rob49 said:


> Sonic option sounds promising, but they don't look like the kind of headphone i could lay on my side, which i have to. I manage to lay on my side wearing the Z1R's, for a short period, when i didn't think it would be possible....i'd also say they're at a price, briefly looking, that i'm not prepared to pay, but thanks for the feedback / suggestion. ( If i did go for the Stellia's, i wouldn't be laying on my side with them, or risk it. )


For that type of use, IEMs seem like the much better choice.


----------



## Gadget67

Rob49 said:


> Sonic option sounds promising, but they don't look like the kind of headphone i could lay on my side, which i have to. I manage to lay on my side wearing the Z1R's, for a short period, when i didn't think it would be possible....i'd also say they're at a price, briefly looking, that i'm not prepared to pay, but thanks for the feedback / suggestion. ( If i did go for the Stellia's, i wouldn't be laying on my side with them, or risk it. )


I own Audeze LCD-X headphones.  Trust me, you definitely wouldn’t be laying on your side with them!


----------



## candlejack

Gadget67 said:


> I own Audeze LCD-X headphones.  Trust me, you definitely wouldn’t be laying on your side with them!


What if you lose your balance?


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> What if you lose your balance?


Just use balanced cables and it won’t be a problem...


----------



## Rob49

candlejack said:


> For that type of use, IEMs seem like the much better choice.



Unfortunately, i can't tolerate IEM's. Just being in my ear. I've never been able to use ear plugs. ( I'm hypersensitive to noise, hence the attempt at ear plugs, over the years. )

I will stick with my Sony's, i wouldn't part with them, but i am seriously considering the Stellia's.


----------



## Rob49

Gadget67 said:


> I own Audeze LCD-X headphones.  Trust me, you definitely wouldn’t be laying on your side with them!



I know !....they're not very appealing on the eye either !....unlike the Stellia's !


----------



## Lookout57

candlejack said:


> If you want more muted/smooth treble and like bass a lot, why not Audeze?


I find the Audeze LCD-X to have harsher treble than the MDR-Z1R. I rarely use mine anymore. And I'm using a pure copper cable on both with the TA.


----------



## jirams

Are there any opinions of the performance of TA amp section being fed with an external DAC of Chord Qutest quality?
Does the amp give a worthy account?


----------



## adrianm

jirams said:


> Are there any opinions of the performance of TA amp section being fed with an external DAC of Chord Qutest quality?
> Does the amp give a worthy account?


Tbh i don't think so,i've thought about it too,but the TA's role is first a dac so it kinda defeats the purpose from my pov.I do think that in both cases the biggest upgrade would using a qutest with an external liniar power supply (something like Sbooster) or the TA (since it has an internal power supply ) with some quality mains filtering ( i'm using Isotek Sirius and it's amazing) or a power plant type thing ,but that costs more than the TA itself so that defeats the purpose as well.
  I know a lot of people think it's snake oil and etc,but it makes a lot more sense to actually filter the noise than just add 1 meter of copper <enter expensive power cable here> and expect it to filter out dirty electricity.And while more expensive devices might have built in linear psu's or are better equipped to handle noise,from my experience,the TA is not. *shots fired*


----------



## drews

jirams said:


> Are there any opinions of the performance of TA amp section being fed with an external DAC of Chord Qutest quality?
> Does the amp give a worthy account?



I'd avoid that if possible, the amp can't be used on its own (the analog inputs are converted to digital so you're adding another lossy conversion before the amp section)...


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Tbh i don't think so,i've thought about it too,but the TA's role is first a dac so it kinda defeats the purpose from my pov.I do think that in both cases the biggest upgrade would using a qutest with an external liniar power supply (something like Sbooster) or the TA (since it has an internal power supply ) with some quality mains filtering ( i'm using Isotek Sirius and it's amazing) or a power plant type thing ,but that costs more than the TA itself so that defeats the purpose as well.
> I know a lot of people think it's snake oil and etc,but it makes a lot more sense to actually filter the noise than just add 1 meter of copper <enter expensive power cable here> and expect it to filter out dirty electricity.And while more expensive devices might have built in linear psu's or are better equipped to handle noise,from my experience,the TA is not. *shots fired*


It's quite amazing then that your desktop computer is capable of performing all its complex functions with such dirty power.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 3, 2020)

candlejack said:


> It's quite amazing then that your desktop computer is capable of performing all its complex functions with such dirty power.







Right the whole clean power in audio is simply another conspiracy to separate audiophiles from their money too? Just like expensive USB cables? Thank-you for saving us.


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> Right the whole clean power in audio is simply another conspiracy to separate audiophiles from their money too? Just like expensive USB cables? Thank-you for saving us.


I appreciate the support, but you give me too much credit. I haven't saved anyone so far.


----------



## adrianm

I love how taboo this stuff is.And how split the community is.You either believe 20k crystal power cables made with unicorn tears make music sound divine,or that there's no difference between 50 cent cables and 100$ cables.No in between.But people still spend 2k on a dac/amp for some reason.What makes it better than 100$ dacs ? Power clearly doesn't, usb timing doesn't.If you think that sounds ridiculous,can't wait to hear your opinion about how about vibration control in an expensive chasis (say,like the one the TA uses) affects the sound quality. Femto crystal's vibration and all that.Must be down to how magical the elves in each device are.


----------



## candlejack

Well, I spent 1k, not 2k, on a DAC/Amp with a market value of around 1k, so I consider that a fairly low risk maneuver. I did it because it was recommended by the people I normally interacted with on this forum and I thought it's worth a try. Why Sony? Because despite the occasional exaggerated marketing, I believe Sony makes legitimate products with thoughtful design and excellent build quality.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Well, I spent 1k, not 2k, on a DAC/Amp with a market value of around 1k, so I consider that a fairly low risk maneuver. I did it because it was recommended by the people I normally interacted with on this forum and I thought it's worth a try. Why Sony? Because despite the occasional exaggerated marketing, I believe Sony makes legitimate products with thoughtful design and excellent build quality.


Same here,but there has to be something in the design that makes one device better than the other .So pick your (snake) poison.


----------



## Damz87

@candlejack it’s been a while now since you’ve owned your TA, how are you finding it? Are you happy with your purchase? Do you hear any noteworthy improvements over your ZX300?

Would be great to hear your thoughts. Apologies if you’ve already shared impressions, I may have missed it earlier in the thread.


----------



## Jacob ISR

Hi, need some help here please.
I have the TA and started to use it as pre amp for powered speakers.
I connect is via Coax cable to Asus sound card in my PC.
Evevry time there is an audio pause i hear click comming out of the TA - looks like the amp is disconnecting the inner cuircet , when press play again - it clicks again.
So every time there is a stop in the signal it cliks.
Is this normal? - is it possible to leave or dissable this operation ?


----------



## candlejack

Damz87 said:


> @candlejack it’s been a while now since you’ve owned your TA, how are you finding it? Are you happy with your purchase? Do you hear any noteworthy improvements over your ZX300?
> 
> Would be great to hear your thoughts. Apologies if you’ve already shared impressions, I may have missed it earlier in the thread.


Yeah, I think it's close to 2 months now. I've been using it a lot and I really enjoy it, but as far as difference or improvements vs the ZX300, I'm afraid I wasn't able to find much. 

The only "testing" I've done has been with the IER on 4.4. Initially I thought there was something in the bass and clarity, but have not been able to confirm it with further testing. I guess if I wanted to spit hairs I could come up with something, but one thing is for sure: when I switch between the two, back and forth, I never get the feeling that yes, I'm listening to something different now.

I still want to try this with the MDR as well (with the HD600 there's little point as I can almost max it out on the zx300) and depending on the outcome I'll decide whether I want to keep it or not.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> Well, I spent 1k, not 2k, on a DAC/Amp with a market value of around 1k, so I consider that a fairly low risk maneuver. I did it because it was recommended by the people I normally interacted with on this forum and I thought it's worth a try. Why Sony? Because despite the occasional exaggerated marketing, I believe Sony makes legitimate products with thoughtful design and excellent build quality.


I bought the PHA-2A today and it actually had surprising synergy with my IER-Z1R and my 1Z. I tested it with the TA and just found the PHA was better for my ears. Compact yet well built. I’m really happy and hope you love your TA


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> I love how taboo this stuff is.And how split the community is.You either believe 20k crystal power cables made with unicorn tears make music sound divine,or that there's no difference between 50 cent cables and 100$ cables.No in between.But people still spend 2k on a dac/amp for some reason.What makes it better than 100$ dacs ? Power clearly doesn't, usb timing doesn't.If you think that sounds ridiculous,can't wait to hear your opinion about how about vibration control in an expensive chasis (say,like the one the TA uses) affects the sound quality. Femto crystal's vibration and all that.Must be down to how magical the elves in each device are.



I used to have an IsoTek power conditioner (can't remember wich) and it certainly made a difference when my house had 80 year old unbalanced wireing setup but after the whole installation was rewired and load balanced and separated to current standards I could no longer detect any difference with or without it so sold it but kept the IsoTek power cables (their budget range)


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Yeah, I think it's close to 2 months now. I've been using it a lot and I really enjoy it, but as far as difference or improvements vs the ZX300, I'm afraid I wasn't able to find much.
> 
> The only "testing" I've done has been with the IER on 4.4. Initially I thought there was something in the bass and clarity, but have not been able to confirm it with further testing. I guess if I wanted to spit hairs I could come up with something, but one thing is for sure: when I switch between the two, back and forth, I never get the feeling that yes, I'm listening to something different now.
> 
> I still want to try this with the MDR as well (with the HD600 there's little point as I can almost max it out on the zx300) and depending on the outcome I'll decide whether I want to keep it or not.


You should add one of these for a "slightly more relaxed " sound .
https://www.jordanacoustics.co.uk/products/cables/ultimate-dream-1m
For an even more relaxed sound,select the 30 month payment plan


----------



## adrianm

nc8000 said:


> I used to have an IsoTek power conditioner (can't remember wich) and it certainly made a difference when my house had 80 year old unbalanced wireing setup but after the whole installation was rewired and load balanced and separated to current standards I could no longer detect any difference with or without it so sold it but kept the IsoTek power cables (their budget range)


Unfortunately while my apartment building is "only " 50 years old,i think there's also the issue of own house vs sharing it with hundreds of people.I know someone who just moved into a recently finished building and for him it was just as bad as his old place .Aka the isotek had the same impact.But it is highly situational, not saying it's a one solution that fits all.


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> You should add one of these for a "slightly more relaxed " sound .
> https://www.jordanacoustics.co.uk/products/cables/ultimate-dream-1m
> For an even more relaxed sound,select the 30 month payment plan



Just placed an order for a 3m one.


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> Just placed an order for a 3m one.


You're probably going to need some kind of a booster for that kind of length.


----------



## candlejack

Rob49 said:


> Just placed an order for a 3m one.


Please share your impressions after the recommended burnin period.


----------



## Rob49

candlejack said:


> Please share your impressions after the recommended burnin period.



Will do !


----------



## Umwelt

Does this amp seriously not have a voltage regulator? They are effectively region locked (100V for JP, 120V US, 240V CN, etc.)
That's kind of ridiculous in 2020 for a premium product. People do move around the world (well, nowadays not as much... but the point stands).


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> Does this amp seriously not have a voltage regulator? They are effectively region locked (100V for JP, 120V US, 240V CN, etc.)
> That's kind of ridiculous in 2020 for a premium product. People do move around the world (well, nowadays not as much... but the point stands).


It used to,but you must have the new, Covid-19 "stay the **** at home " edition  
It doesn't ,but perhaps we can interest you in a fancy power cable,linked above.It still won't work ,but Candlejack has been raving about it non stop.


----------



## JerryHead

I couldn't immediately find my post a few days back about electrical cords, but I received my TA today and tried it out with several different configurations. The first thing that I have to say is that I did an A/B test, back and forth, and the 8' electrical cord I bought from Amazon definitely did degrade the sound.  Not by much, but enough that it was noticeable with several comparison tests.  Also, the TA is sounding pretty warm right out of the box, much like my 1A did when I first received it, and I'm wondering if there is burn-in period involved?   I'm using a borrowed pair of MDR-Z7M2s through the balanced and the sound is really incredible, but not a wide soundstage with these.  I'm impressed, but those who told me that I'm not going to notice too much of a difference between the TA and 1A were correct.  The difference is not dramatic. I'm actually preferring the sound out of the TA when connected to the my Hiby R5 for some reason, compared to when it's connected to the 1A, even though I'm not to supposed to notice a difference between the source units.  I have the sound turned up almost completely on the Hiby R5 and this is improving the dynamics.  Specs on the R5:  outputs balanced power up to 1040mW+1040mW@16Ω and 564mW+564mW@32Ω.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 4, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> I couldn't immediately find my post a few days back about electrical cords, but I received my TA today and tried it out with several different configurations. The first thing that I have to say is that I did an A/B test, back and forth, and the 8' electrical cord I bought from Amazon definitely did degrade the sound.  Not by much, but enough that it was noticeable with several comparison tests.  Also, the TA is sounding pretty warm right out of the box, much like my 1A did when I first received it, and I'm wondering if there is burn-in period involved?   I'm using a borrowed pair of MDR-Z7M2s through the balanced and the sound is really incredible, but not a wide soundstage with these.  I'm impressed, but those who told me that I'm not going to notice too much of a difference between the TA and 1A were correct.  The difference is not dramatic. I'm actually preferring the sound out of the TA when connected to the my Hiby R5 for some reason, compared to when it's connected to the 1A, even though I'm not to supposed to notice a difference between the source units.  I have the sound turned up almost completely on the Hiby R5 and this is improving the dynamics.  Specs on the R5:  outputs balanced power up to 1040mW+1040mW@16Ω and 564mW+564mW@32Ω.



I don’t get it? Is the Hiby R5 connected with analog connection or are you using the DAC in the TA? Also yes, power cords can make a difference, mine is about two feet long made of gold foil wrapped in EMI shielding. The TA will sound different too after 200 hours. Just run it on medium volume for a solid week. You should also confirm which TA firmware your using? Simply hook the TA to a Windows computer and turn it to PC, after downloading the software. You can simply confirm your firmware without changing anything.

Also take note, that any analog input still gets digital DAC processing. 





You may or may not want to update to 1.03?

https://www.sony.co.id/en/electronics/support/downloads/Y0015296

Not as some have Mac issues. Also 1.03 is a tad brighter. Cheers!


----------



## JerryHead (Jun 4, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


> I don’t get it? Is the Hiby R5 connected with analog connection or are you using the DAC in the TA? Also yes, power cords can make a difference, mine is about two feet long made of gold foil wrapped in EMI shielding. The TA will sound different too after 200 hours. Just run it on medium volume for a solid week. You should also confirm which TA firmware your using? Simply hook the TA to a Windows computer and turn it to PC, after downloading the software. You can simply confirm your firmware without changing anything.
> 
> Also take note, that any analog input still gets digital DAC processing.
> 
> ...


Great, looks like I can update with a Mac laptop.  I want 1.03.  I’m connecting R5 with a usb cable.  I assume I’m using the TA’s DAC.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 4, 2020)

You may want to leave your firmware alone. I don’t use a Mac that much for the TA and only use Walkmans as a file source. Also your not going to be able to ascertain your firmware with a Mac. You may want to read father back a couple pages, one member had issues using Mac based music playing software with the TA, after updating to 1.03 with a PC. Anyway I updated but took only a passing glance as to what firmware I originally was on. I guess 1.02? But I just posted links to Sony TA 1.02 and 1.01 firmware. I have not been able to get the links to work. You do though always have active Sony links for 1.00 and 1.03. But take note; you need a PC to update your TA. 

What I’m saying is if your like the member a couple pages back you may not want to update to 1.03 if your using a Mac for software music playback. Also besides myself there is really no one talking about 1.03 sounding different or better than previous firmwares. As always Sony stays in the dark publicly about firmwares changing sound.


----------



## JerryHead

Anyone listen to the TA through a pair of Focal Clears?  If so, what did you think?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 4, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> I couldn't immediately find my post a few days back about electrical cords, but I received my TA today and tried it out with several different configurations. The first thing that I have to say is that I did an A/B test, back and forth, and the 8' electrical cord I bought from Amazon definitely did degrade the sound.  Not by much, but enough that it was noticeable with several comparison tests.  Also, the TA is sounding pretty warm right out of the box, much like my 1A did when I first received it, and I'm wondering if there is burn-in period involved?   I'm using a borrowed pair of MDR-Z7M2s through the balanced and the sound is really incredible, but not a wide soundstage with these.  I'm impressed, but those who told me that I'm not going to notice too much of a difference between the TA and 1A were correct.  The difference is not dramatic. I'm actually preferring the sound out of the TA when connected to the my Hiby R5 for some reason, compared to when it's connected to the 1A, even though I'm not to supposed to notice a difference between the source units.  I have the sound turned up almost completely on the Hiby R5 and this is improving the dynamics.  Specs on the R5:  outputs balanced power up to 1040mW+1040mW@16Ω and 564mW+564mW@32Ω.



The small but positive change using the Sony MDR-Z7MK2 with TA over the Sony 1A with the Z7 MK2s is simply due to the TA having better damping factor which will clean up the Z7MK2 lower midrange and improve pace. I have never heard the MK2, but own the MK1 Z7 and MDR-Z1R thus coming to a conclusion in your use. Basically a guess.

Using different sources does make a small difference with the TA. In my personal use I found the Walkman in the Cradle with the AQCarbon USB to be the best. Next best is the USB adapter to the Walkman. Next best is the TA side connected. Fourth best is hooking a PC or Mac to the TA.


----------



## adrianm

Redcarmoose said:


> The small but positive change using the Sony MDR-Z7MK2 with TA over the Sony 1A with the Z7 MK2s is simply due to the TA having better damping factor which will clean up the Z7MK2 lower midrange and improve pace. I have never heard the MK2, but own the MK1 Z7 and MDR-Z1R thus coming to a conclusion in your use. Basically a guess.
> 
> Using different sources does make a small difference with the TA. In my personal use I found the Walkman in the Cradle with the AQCarbon USB to be the best. Next best is the USB adapter to the Walkman. Next best is the TA side connected. Fourth best is hooking a PC or Mac to the TA.


Ever tried it with a streamer like a Aries mini ? I'm on my way (with the TA) to an Auralic dealer so i can a/b it with an G1,or another high end transport so i can put this source matters or not to rest once and for all.Even if it does,spending 2k on a streamer for a 2k dac/amp might make less sense than returning my TA and getting a 4k dac/amp/streamer like a Naim.And escape this crazy world of cables and etc.But i'd be missing out on the balanced connection,and that,to my ears made one of the biggest differences.


----------



## adrianm

adrianm said:


> Ever tried it with a streamer like a Aries mini ? I'm on my way (with the TA) to an Auralic dealer so i can a/b it with an G1,or another high end transport so i can put this source matters or not to rest once and for all.Even if it does,spending 2k on a streamer for a 2k dac/amp might make less sense than returning my TA and getting a 4k dac/amp/streamer like a Naim.And escape this crazy world of cables and etc.But i'd be missing out on the balanced connection,and that,to my ears made one of the biggest differences.


To be fair though,any differences i might hear will most likely be due to Auralic proprietary software software that does the full MQA unfold and transports it to the TA .So impossible to isolate usb /clean power/or hardware differences between it and a laptop/pc streaming.So much smoke and mirrors in this hobby


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 4, 2020)

adrianm said:


> Ever tried it with a streamer like a Aries mini ? I'm on my way (with the TA) to an Auralic dealer so i can a/b it with an G1,or another high end transport so i can put this source matters or not to rest once and for all.Even if it does,spending 2k on a streamer for a 2k dac/amp might make less sense than returning my TA and getting a 4k dac/amp/streamer like a Naim.And escape this crazy world of cables and etc.But i'd be missing out on the balanced connection,and that,to my ears made one of the biggest differences.



I haven’t but there are a few who post here regularly who went the streamer route and separated their Walkmans from the TA. It’s what ever you want really. Obviously the Walkmans will be convenient, but then for others if they like the sound.........the network devices are easier.

My whole reason for going to the Walkmans was to get away from computers. So in that essence, I did. Of course the Walkmans are still small computers

It’s hard to leave balanced once your on-board.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> I haven’t but there are a few who post here regularly who went the streamer route and separated their Walkmans from the TA. It’s what ever you want really. Obviously the Walkmans will be convenient, but then for others if they like the sound the network devices are easier.
> 
> My whole reason for going to the Walkmans was to get away from computers. So in that essence, I did. Of course the Walkmans are still small computers.


But comfortable and much more convenient small computers


----------



## adrianm

Convenience aside,i'm curious about the sound quality upgrade over a PC that some seem comes because of...better timed usb signal i guess (i'm 90% sure this is snake oil but want to hear it for myself) and less noise (less sure this is snake oil but also want to hear it for myself),but most likely it's the proprietary software.Since i only stream Tidal a walkman doesn't make sense for me.And i'd rather use my pc if the sound quality is in fact the same.


----------



## adrianm

Just read that there are now walkmans that stream tidal,What.Any opinions on  NW-ZX507 compared to that most ppl here use? WM1A and Z i guess?


----------



## Redcarmoose

adrianm said:


> Convenience aside,i'm curious about the sound quality upgrade over a PC that some seem comes because of...better timed usb signal i guess (i'm 90% sure this is snake oil but want to hear it for myself) and less noise (less sure this is snake oil but also want to hear it for myself),but most likely it's the proprietary software.Since i only stream Tidal a walkman doesn't make sense for me.And i'd rather use my pc if the sound quality is in fact the same.



Using the Cradle and Walkman with the AQCarbon is a small but noticeable improvement that a few folks have had emulated. If the USB noise filters and USB reclocking really do something is of course up for debate. Though you’ll still find folks emotionally committed to both sides of the argument.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 4, 2020)

adrianm said:


> Just read that there are now walkmans that stream tidal,What.Any opinions on  NW-ZX507 compared to that most ppl here use? WM1A and Z i guess?



But many are happy using the TA with streaming. Of course the 1Z and 1A offer very simplistic operation. Many were upset as they can receive and transmit Bluetooth but fail to do so in conjunction with the TA. But that’s a good question if the two new Android Walkmans could be joined to the TA for streaming. Actually you’ll have a somewhat Luddite group of Walkman folks who can come up with a list “even now” why they don’t like streamers. Not being able to hear the bit-rate they want........to companies randomly deleting artists without warning. The list goes on and on. Cheers!


----------



## Redcarmoose

If you read the thread there is really many ways people use the TA. Some use it with a two channel speaker rig as the DAC and pre-out. Actually some only use the TA with optical out of a DVD for movies. Though I do have my curiosity of if/how the TA would handle DTS?


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> To be fair though,any differences i might hear will most likely be due to Auralic proprietary software software that does the full MQA unfold and transports it to the TA .So impossible to isolate usb /clean power/or hardware differences between it and a laptop/pc streaming.So much smoke and mirrors in this hobby


Doesn't Tidal stream FLAC 16/44.1?


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> Doesn't Tidal stream FLAC 16/44.1?



Aac down to 96kb, 16/44 flac and mqa from 24/44 up to 24/192


----------



## candlejack

nc8000 said:


> Aac down to 96kb, 16/44 flac and mqa from 24/44 up to 24/192


So then Adrian can test the streamers with FLAC. That *should* involve no magic software tricks.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> So then Adrian can test the streamers with FLAC. That *should* involve no magic software tricks.


Yeah,im here now with the Ta and a macbook pro 16 and my own cables.like a  crazy person


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Yeah,im here now with the Ta and a macbook pro 16 and my own cables.like a  crazy person


Haha, picture-or-it-didn't-happen!

Let us know what you find.


----------



## adrianm (Jun 4, 2020)

Well they didn't have the Aries G1 ( 2.2k dedicated streamer) ,but they did have the Vega G1 streaming dac (3.8k streaming dac). No way to output to the TA so tested it by itself since i was there already.Plugged the Z1R's in with a 6.3 adapter and used it to stream  Tidal and through  my macbook pro 16 connected to it using a chord signature super array usb cable (around 800 euros) connected to my macbook and  a 2$ lightning to usb adapter (not sure if someone makes a super expensive version of those yet,but that's an idea ).The overall sound was ...disappointing to say the least.While detail was there sound stage disappeared completely and it was all very..in your head.No dedicated headphone amp probably has an impact as well.
      But the point was to compare the sound from it streaming to itself vs the macbook streaming to it via usb.
    Switching between them was a pain in the ass but with all volume normalization disabled, pass through mqa enabled on both and etc...matched for settings.It sounded exactly the same on most tracks,with the exception of 1 or 2 tracks where the sound seemed somehow thinner from the Vega streaming to itself vs the Macbook feeding it .I'd call it within margin of error since switching was cumbersome but overall the macbook sounded slightly better or exactly the same on all tracks.
    So from this little experiment i see no evidence that...digital source to a dac matters (especially since there was no other cable,etc involved,it was literally streaming to itself ).Unless of course there is something else between the source and dac degrading the signal somehow .
   That aside, build quality was miles below the TA even  and software was slow (at least on that ipad mini) and i wouldn't use that interface instead of..the tidal desktop app with a mouse and keyboard even if they paid me the 2k. Especially since i'm at my desk working all day anyway,one less box lying around i guess.


----------



## candlejack (Jun 4, 2020)

@adrianm I'd like to say that I don't have a huge grin on my face right now, but I ain't no liar.

PS: it's a well known fact that $800 USB cables generally have a more intimate soundstage, i.e. they get you closer to the artists you love... very desirable stuff.


----------



## adrianm

I've also managed to isolate the differences between Tidal exclusive mode and system controlled modes.It was basically when it converted to other sample rates set in windows output device bit rate. Also that tidal loudness normalization  ( that kill dynamics,as advanced as tidal claims their new algorithm is ) might have had an impact .Baring some weird windows errors that the Tidal app sometimes has,both sound identical now.Hardware is hardware,all is right with the world again.
I do still think there is a minimum quality to be met for all components in order for things to function/sound as they should.Compared to the cables the TA comes with i'd rather spend 50 -100 euros on a cable and at least buy peace of mind,if not much else .Though the Chord c-line usb cable i got did sound slightly better then the one it came with.It's subtle,unlike the power conditioning and power cable.
 Next stop on the craziness train,i'm thinking of auditioning a Chord Dave tomorrow


----------



## adrianm

Has anyone compared the WM1A/Z to the Chord mojo?


----------



## Gadget67

JerryHead said:


> Anyone listen to the TA through a pair of Focal Clears?  If so, what did you think?


In a week or so, I’ll be able to tell you.  I’m buying a pair along with the Focal Arche Amp/DAC and creating a listening area next to a comfortable couch.  The Clear compares favorably to the Utopia according to a number of reviews but, like anything, I want to experience them for myself.  If it doesn’t work out, my stepson is willing to take them off my hands in exchange for his continuing love and afffection!


----------



## JerryHead

Gadget67 said:


> In a week or so, I’ll be able to tell you.  I’m buying a pair along with the Focal Arche Amp/DAC and creating a listening area next to a comfortable couch.  The Clear compares favorably to the Utopia according to a number of reviews but, like anything, I want to experience them for myself.  If it doesn’t work out, my stepson is willing to take them off my hands in exchange for his continuing love and afffection!


Gee, lucky kid!  I ordered a refurb pair too, coming mid week next week.  These instead of the HD660S which are on back order and so I'm trying to cancel that order. Senn already charged me for the 660 when I ordered them ten days ago, but later told me they're not expected to ship for another three weeks.


----------



## JerryHead (Jun 4, 2020)

turns out my unit already has


Redcarmoose said:


> I don’t get it? Is the Hiby R5 connected with analog connection or are you using the DAC in the TA? Also yes, power cords can make a difference, mine is about two feet long made of gold foil wrapped in EMI shielding. The TA will sound different too after 200 hours. Just run it on medium volume for a solid week. You should also confirm which TA firmware your using? Simply hook the TA to a Windows computer and turn it to PC, after downloading the software. You can simply confirm your firmware without changing anything.
> 
> Also take note, that any analog input still gets digital DAC processing.
> 
> ...


Turns out my unit already has FW 1.0.3.  I just plugged into my Mac and was able to clearly see it.  I'm not too impressed by the sound of the TA with WM1A as the source through a pair of the MDRZ7M2 headphones.  The sound is very dark, no bright highs to speak to off, as if the sound is muffled.  24/192 Flac files sound much, much better than mp3s, unlike on the 1A alone which does an amazing job upscaling the mp3s.  I'm never quite sure whether I want to keep the DSEE on, but I think my default is to leave it off.  I'm wondering whether my issue is my connection method, which with the 1A is the included Walkman cable.  My guess is that there's a noticeable improvement with the AQCarbon cable through USB B, dock or no dock.  I'm listening at -40 - -20 db.  Is this volume range normal?  That it should be in the minuses?


----------



## Umwelt

Welp, ended up pulling the trigger on one of these, even though I still think lacking a switching PSU is BS, and the highest-end product I'll have to use with it is an IER-Z1R, for which this TA may be overkill... but I really couldn't find anything else that offered a similar set of features. Plus, in my limited book this the best-looking DAC in the market. 
What are some other DACs that compete with or even surpass the TA in terms of clean, elegant design?


----------



## JerryHead

Umwelt said:


> Welp, ended up pulling the trigger on one of these, even though I still think lacking a switching PSU is BS, and the highest-end product I'll have to use with it is an IER-Z1R, for which this TA may be overkill... but I really couldn't find anything else that offered a similar set of features. Plus, in my limited book this the best-looking DAC in the market.
> What are some other DACs that compete with or even surpass the TA in terms of clean, elegant design?


Very true. I'm beginning to realize however, that the source unit, connection method, file type, and chosen headphones, can all have a considerable impact on the sound quality.  You have figure out what works best for you, only through trial and error of various combinations.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 4, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> turns out my unit already has
> 
> Turns out my unit already has FW 1.0.3.  I just plugged into my Mac and was able to clearly see it.  I'm not too impressed by the sound of the TA with WM1A as the source through a pair of the MDRZ7M2 headphones.  The sound is very dark, no bright highs to speak to off, as if the sound is muffled.  24/192 Flac files sound much, much better than mp3s, unlike on the 1A alone which does an amazing job upscaling the mp3s.  I'm never quite sure whether I want to keep the DSEE on, but I think my default is to leave it off.  I'm wondering whether my issue is my connection method, which with the 1A is the included Walkman cable.  My guess is that there's a noticeable improvement with the AQCarbon cable through USB B, dock or no dock.  I'm listening at -40 - -20 db.  Is this volume range normal?  That it should be in the minuses?


I don’t know what to tell you. Typically there is not exactly “tone” differences when changing sources. I mean there is a tiny bit, but nothing like you describe. The TA is normally on the slightly dark side. In many ways the Walkman 1A and the TA are opposites in the Sony Signature Line. But the differences are small and normally don’t create an issue. It’s more of a subtle interpretation of the same over-all sound.

Have you tried connecting the TA and using a computer as a source? Never heard the Z7MK2, but it’s too bad you don’t have some other headphone to try also.

Again adding the Cradle and AQCarbon is more of a fine tuning in the same direction the system is going to begin with. The highs are clearer and the timing pace is more refined but the results are super small.

For me the TA was the first set of equipment which showed the 320kbps quality in contrast to 24bit or 16/44.1. I thought I could hear a difference?

But in this situation...........and I even though the TA is regarded as laid-back and slightly dark, I’m more inclined to guess your issue is with the tone of the Z7MK2. I think your set-up is showing you how they really sound, and it may not be your thing.

Typically the MDR-Z1R and MDR-Z7 use a V signature but due to a slight treble boost it seems to pull the headphones away from sounding too dark. The recess in the midrange also adds to give an area where more detail (or the illusion of detail) gets perceived. Take note too, this feeling of stuff being too dark has regularly been noted by lots and lots of both Z7 and Z1R members. Though after about 3 days you adjust to the tone and everything is fine. That’s my story too.


----------



## JerryHead

Redcarmoose said:


> I don’t know what to tell you. Typically there is not exactly “tone” differences when changing sources. I mean there is a tiny bit, but nothing like you describe. The TA is normally on the slightly dark side. In many ways the Walkman 1A and the TA are opposites in the Sony Signature Line. But the differences are small and normally don’t create an issue. It’s more of a subtle interpretation of the same over-all sound.
> 
> Have you tried connecting the TA and using a computer as a source? Never heard the Z7MK2, but it’s too bad you don’t have some other headphone to try also.
> 
> ...


I think you may be right about the headphones.  I listened to the TA with my SE846s, the only other headphones/earphones I have at the moment, and the sound was very similar to the 1A alone.  I have a pair of Focal Clears coming next week and will be trying those out with the included XLR cable.  I'm thinking that even if there are subtle differences, let's say 10% each with the connection choices (both input and output), the cable used (ie AQC USB cable), the file type, and the headphones, that's like a 50% difference, which is pretty huge.  And the headphones I bet could produce more like a 30% difference, so there we have a 70% difference, and I didn't even mention the source device, which I could clearly hear a difference from.  So, as I was saying, there are a lot of variables here to play around with, until you get the sound, YOU are looking for.  Looking forward to getting it right, and then when I do, you won't be hearing from me for a while, because I'll kickin' it!  LOL!


----------



## Redcarmoose

JerryHead said:


> I think you may be right about the headphones.  I listened to the TA with my SE846s, the only other headphones/earphones I have at the moment, and the sound was very similar to the 1A alone.  I have a pair of Focal Clears coming next week and will be trying those out with the included XLR cable.  I'm thinking that even if there are subtle differences, let's say 10% each with the connection choices (both input and output), the cable used (ie AQC USB cable), the file type, and the headphones, that's like a 50% difference, which is pretty huge.  And the headphones I bet could produce more like a 30% difference, so there we have a 70% difference, and I didn't even mention the source device, which I could clearly hear a difference from.  So, as I was saying, there are a lot of variables here to play around with, until you get the sound, YOU are looking for.  Looking forward to getting it right, and then when I do, you won't be hearing from me for a while, because I'll kickin' it!  LOL!



Well just take note that most think the Sony Z1R and Z7 sounded off the first couple days. So much so that they would not have purchased them if demoed in a shop. This hobby is more about the contrast of what your used to and your preconceived ideas as to what is correct coming into contact with a new and possibly better future and leaning to interpret it.


----------



## candlejack

JerryHead said:


> Very true. I'm beginning to realize however, that the source unit, connection method, file type, and chosen headphones, can all have a considerable impact on the sound quality.


I like how the headphones are last on the list. 


Redcarmoose said:


> I don’t know what to tell you. Typically there is not exactly “tone” differences when changing sources. I mean there is a tiny bit, but nothing like you describe. The TA is normally on the slightly dark side. In many ways the Walkman 1A and the TA are opposites in the Sony Signature Line. But the differences are small and normally don’t create an issue. It’s more of a subtle interpretation of the same over-all sound.
> 
> Have you tried connecting the TA and using a computer as a source? Never heard the Z7MK2, but it’s too bad you don’t have some other headphone to try also.
> 
> ...


I don't believe my eyes. @Redcarmoose is actually trying to temper a discussion on the magnitude of SQ differences...  I'm one step further from quitting on this forum.


----------



## Redcarmoose

JerryHead said:


> I think you may be right about the headphones.  I listened to the TA with my SE846s, the only other headphones/earphones I have at the moment, and the sound was very similar to the 1A alone.  I have a pair of Focal Clears coming next week and will be trying those out with the included XLR cable.  I'm thinking that even if there are subtle differences, let's say 10% each with the connection choices (both input and output), the cable used (ie AQC USB cable), the file type, and the headphones, that's like a 50% difference, which is pretty huge.  And the headphones I bet could produce more like a 30% difference, so there we have a 70% difference, and I didn't even mention the source device, which I could clearly hear a difference from.  So, as I was saying, there are a lot of variables here to play around with, until you get the sound, YOU are looking for.  Looking forward to getting it right, and then when I do, you won't be hearing from me for a while, because I'll kickin' it!  LOL!



Basically everyone is in the same boat. There are qualities across the board that everyone wants. Clarity, resolve, imaging, timbre. But between people tone ideas change. Everyone approaches Head-Fi with pre determined ideas of correct tone. If you go to a Head-Fi meet there will be 40 people all proud of their systems; yet each one is different in tone to a point. And at times people will key into actual artifacts as the part they like. As a departure from flat and as a full departure from the tested Harman Curve; Sony has been creative. It’s different and not for all. It’s this color that people will purchase after they have maybe gone a more linear path? There is no right or wrong, but at first new tone can sound strange until your minds ideas get replaced by future enjoyable musical experiences. Most of Sony is like Blue Cheese; it’s an acquired taste in the end.


----------



## Redcarmoose

candlejack said:


> I like how the headphones are last on the list.
> 
> I don't believe my eyes. @Redcarmoose is actually trying to temper a discussion on the magnitude of SQ differences...  I'm one step further from quitting on this forum.



“One day, someone showed me a glass of water that was half full. And he said, "Is it half full or half empty?" So I drank the water. No more problem.”
Alejandro Jodorowsky


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> “One day, someone showed me a glass of water that was half full. And he said, "Is it half full or half empty?" So I drank the water. No more problem.”
> Alejandro Jodorowsky


Nice quote, but what it is supposed to mean here?


----------



## Redcarmoose

candlejack said:


> Nice quote, but what it is supposed to mean here?



He drank the water....so there was nothing to dispute.


----------



## JerryHead (Jun 5, 2020)

can't stress enough, the difference I hear in the TA (using the Z7M2s) when using the two source units I am trying.  The WM1A (through the Walkman stock cable /connection) and the Hiby R5 (via USB B).  They sound very, very different through the TA with these headphones,  The R5 is much, much more to my liking.  Not that I'm not in love with the 1A alone, when listening to it with my iems (SE846s), it's just that connected to the TA this way, and with these headphones, the sound is murky, muddy, dark is a nice word actually.  With the Hiby R5 connected, the headphones come alive, they're crystal clear, brilliant, dynamic, with thundering bass, and bright highs, a joy to listen to.


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> Guys, I can't stress enough, the difference I hear in the TA (using the Z7M2s) when using the two source units I am trying.  The WM1A (through the Walkman stock cable /connection) and the Hiby R5 (via USB B).  They sound very, very different through the TA with these headphones,  The R5 is much, much more to my liking.  Not that I'm not in love with the 1A alone, when listening to it with my iems (SE846s), it's just that connected to the TA this way, and with these headphones, the sound is murky, muddy, dark is a nice word actually.  With the Hiby R5 connected, the headphones come alive, they're crystal clear, brilliant, dynamic, with thundering bass, and bright highs, a joy to listen to.


This is more likely due to the different inputs,more than the actual transporting device. I've been chasing magical sources for a while now and from what i tested yesterday,to me it proved conclusively that ...there is no difference via the same input.You might also want to disable DSEE HX if you're using flac or higher since it's only made to help mp3's along.


----------



## adrianm

adrianm said:


> This is more likely due to the different inputs,more than the actual transporting device. I've been chasing magical sources for a while now and from what i tested yesterday,to me it proved conclusively that ...there is no difference via the same input.You might also want to disable DSEE HX if you're using flac or higher since it's only made to help mp3's along.


Actually never mind.Turns out that the Architecture of the Dac/streamer i've tested allows it to operate independantly of the frequency of the source.So it makes perfect sense that it sounded the same from a Macbook and from it streaming to itself :
https://us.auralic.com/products/vega-g1?variant=34539905351848


*Master Clock DAC*
*The completely redesigned architecture of the VEGA G1 allows it to accomplish something amazing: it is the first DAC ever that operates independently of the source signal’s frequency*

Sorry Candlejack,it seems i've chosen the absolutely worst dac in the world to prove that...source to a Dac has no impact ) .Usb crazyness is still up for grabs.Is it snake oil,is it not snake oil,WHO CAN TELL?


----------



## JerryHead

Noob question: What's the advantage of using your computer (in my case a MacBook) as your storage device?  If I have the same tracks on my 1A or Android DAP, why not just use one of those?


----------



## Gamerlingual

JerryHead said:


> Noob question: What's the advantage of using your computer (in my case a MacBook) as your storage device?  If I have the same tracks on my 1A or Android DAP, why not just use one of those?


Back up your music. Never hurts to do that.


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 5, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> Noob question: What's the advantage of using your computer (in my case a MacBook) as your storage device?  If I have the same tracks on my 1A or Android DAP, why not just use one of those?



In my case using an Auralic streamer (not a  computer) rather than dap is storage capacity. I have near 2TB music when counting hires versions and that will not fit on the dap (on the dap I have it all but downsampled to 16/44 or 16/48 in order to fit)


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 5, 2020)

Umwelt said:


> Welp, ended up pulling the trigger on one of these, even though I still think lacking a switching PSU is BS, and the highest-end product I'll have to use with it is an IER-Z1R, for which this TA may be overkill... but I really couldn't find anything else that offered a similar set of features. Plus, in my limited book this the best-looking DAC in the market.
> What are some other DACs that compete with or even surpass the TA in terms of clean, elegant design?



No it’s not overkill for the IER-Z1R. Not so much on Head-Fi (but at times on Head-Fi) it gets reported that neither the 1Z or 1A are actually powerful enough to drive the IER-Z1R. Owning all three (in my views)really it’s fine driving the IER-Z1R out of the 1Z or 1A.....but....the TA is actually the best. IMO

The TA offers the IER-Z1R a better imaging and separation experience to my ears. A blacker background too.

China audio forums are full of folks saying the Walkmans can’t drive the IER-Z1R.

It really depends on tone preference as some may want the sound of the 1Z? Still the TA is amazing with the IER-Z1R. You'll have your mouth drop upon hearing the combo for the first time!

Congratulations! Cheers!

Another reason I have recommended the TA is because the 1A is $1200 and the TA is $2200. So for $3400 you actually get something better than the 1Z (which is $3200) for $200 more. That is if you wanted to use the 1A as a source. If you just wanted to use a PC, the set-up is $1000 less than a 1Z.....(and it’s better) considering you already had a PC.


----------



## JerryHead

Anyone have any issues with their TA that led to needed warranty repairs?  I bought mine at a ($500USD) discount, not from an auth seller obviously, and it didn't come with much of a warranty.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> You might also want to disable DSEE HX if you're using flac or higher since it's only made to help mp3's along.


I'm not so sure about that, but I don't have time to do the research for a proper counter. Regardless of the theoretical advantage, I don't seem to hear a difference. 


adrianm said:


> *Master Clock DAC*
> *The completely redesigned architecture of the VEGA G1 allows it to accomplish something amazing: it is the first DAC ever that operates independently of the source signal’s frequency*


Am I missing something here? Is this device super old, so that it's _"the first to [...]" _? Because as far as I know all DACs (at least all the ones I've seen discussed on this forum) operate on their own clock, so completely independently of the source frequency (i.e. _asynchronously_)


nc8000 said:


> In my case using an Auralic streamer (not a  computer) rather than dap is storage capacity. I have near 2GB music when counting hires versions and that will not fit on the dap (on the dap I have it all but downsampled to 16/44 or 16/48 in order to fit)


I imagine you mean 2TB.


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> Anyone have any issues with their TA that led to needed warranty repairs?  I bought mine at a ($500USD) discount, not from an auth seller obviously, and it didn't come with much of a warranty.



I’ve had no issues in 3 1/2 years but then it got put in it’s place and has not been moved since and all operation is done via the remote so has hardly been touched either


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> I'm not so sure about that, but I don't have time to do the research for a proper counter. Regardless of the theoretical advantage, I don't seem to hear a difference.
> 
> Am I missing something here? Is this device super old, so that it's _"the first to [...]" _? Because as far as I know all DACs (at least all the ones I've seen discussed on this forum) operate on their own clock, so completely independently of the source frequency (i.e. _asynchronously_)
> 
> I imagine you mean 2TB.



Doooh yes


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> No it’s not overkill for the IER-Z1R. Not so much on Head-Fi (but at times on Head-Fi) it gets reported that neither the 1Z or 1A are actually powerful enough to drive the IER-Z1R.
> 
> China audio forums are full of folks saying the Walkmans can’t drive the IER-Z1R.


Claiming that _X is not powerful enough to drive Y_ without providing any arguments is like a rite of passage for audiophiles. No wonder some call us audiofools.


----------



## Redcarmoose

No issues, though mechanically the volume knob is actually delicate. I had to put it back one time, and I felt it could have been made a little more substantial? Though keep in mind I was most likely 100% responsible. Just don’t let anything hit it or get underneath it. I was able to rejoin the knob myself with zero after-effects.


----------



## Redcarmoose

candlejack said:


> Claiming that _X is not powerful enough to drive Y_ without providing any arguments is like a rite of passage for audiophiles. No wonder some call us audiofools.



If you read my post, I stated that the Walkmans are probably fine. It’s a small difference. Yet Chinese audiophile forums are blanketed with folks feeling the Walkmans are not quite powerful enough for the IER-Z1R. In fact.......to state otherwise is a tell-tale sign of being a noob.


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> If you read my post, I stated that the Walkmans are probably fine. It’s a small difference. Yet Chinese audiophile forums are blanketed with folks feeling the Walkmans are not quite powerful enough for the IER-Z1R. In fact.......to state otherwise is a tell-tale sign of being a noob.


I wasn't referring to you, no worries.


----------



## JerryHead

Anyone heard of someone putting some form of dust cover on the TA?  It's a beautiful piece of equipment, and my preferred location for it, under a side table, gathers a lot of dust frequently down there.  I can't think of what I could use to protect it..


----------



## Redcarmoose

JerryHead said:


> Anyone heard of someone putting some form of dust cover on the TA?  It's a beautiful piece of equipment, and my preferred location for it, under a side table, gathers a lot of dust frequently down there.  I can't think of what I could use to protect it..







The ultimate cover would be to have a craftsman hand make a Lexan cover. Basically you give the dimensions you want and they make it. It’s common for these to be made custom for expensive phonographs. I actually had one at one point, though now I use towels which makes my home atheistic very old aunty in ways.


----------



## JerryHead

Redcarmoose said:


> The ultimate cover would be to have a craftsman hand make a Lexan cover. Basically you give the dimensions you want and they make it. It’s common for these to be made custom for expensive phonographs. I actually had one at one point, though now I use towels which makes my home atheistic very old aunty in ways.


Towels?  As in, you have the entire top surface covered?  Doesn’t the unit need to breathe on top?  Like, have air flow in/out through the top so nothing heats up too much in there?


----------



## adrianm

I just took another trip with the TA to local Hi-fi store and tested a bunch of toys withe MDR Z1R (Dave,Hugo TT2 with and without Mscaler) and i've also tested each of them fed by a 300 euro Node2i vs fed by a 10k streaming solution (naim ndx2 dac used as a transport + power supply).
 Shockingly,they did sound different ,both feeding the TA via coax,the node sounded a lot harsher and more metallic ( worse than what i remembered my pc sounding ,but maybe i was just spoiled by the Dave and Naim at that point and it sounded worse in comparison).
  And it was coax ,not usb, so fancy cables and  reclockers aside,i don't know why the difference,but apparently i was wrong, digital source does make a  diffence. It was kinda negligible  considering the price delta,but all that analog sound and bla bla did ring true to my ears using the TA with both sources.With the Dave it made a lot less of a difference though.
   The point of this exercise was to see if i should return the TA for a Hugo TT2 and add an Mscaler later or just save up and eventually get the Dave.I'm sure all the audiophiles listening to fancy orchestras in DSD while smoking cigars will cry out blasphemy,but here it is : 
   Using Tidal and some of the stuff i've been listening to,the TA sounds better (at least in balanced mode)   than the TT2 . 
   Adding the M-scaler i'd say for those few tracks it sounded about the same (soundstage got wider than with the TT2 alone),maybe ever so slightly better on the combo than the TA,but considering the 1.2k i got the TA for and the price of the TTS2+mscaler combo i think it's laughable. I'm sure your David Chesky will sound better on the Chord combo,it's irrelevant to me though,calm your panties.
 All and all left there crazy happy with the TA and 90% sure i'm going to get a Dave at some point,it really is what the reviews say,clear upgrade in resolution,layering and separation at least.It's the only clear upgrade i could find to the TA , but diminishing returns hit hard.
They offered a 10% discount on the Dave but i've read people getting it for 20-30% off on this forum, idk if that's bs or not.But for that kind of discount i'd seriously consider it.
  All impressions using the MDR-Z1R and Dac's integrated amplification,adding a headphone amp to each of them might make a difference ,i'm sure it would be different with speakers/other headphones.
 Pic this time for Candlejack


----------



## candlejack

Keep in mind that this equipment generates heat so it should be kept pretty airy.

But I have to wonder, if you like the aesthetic so much, why would you want to cover it up?


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> Keep in mind that this equipment generates heat so it should be kept pretty airy.
> 
> But I have to wonder, if you like the aesthetic so much, why would you want to cover it up?


A clear cover could suffice if that’s the case.


----------



## JerryHead

Gamerlingual said:


> A clear cover could suffice if that’s the case.
> [/QUOT





candlejack said:


> Keep in mind that this equipment generates heat so it should be kept pretty airy.
> 
> But I have to wonder, if you like the aesthetic so much, why would you want to cover it up?


Again, just to keep it free of dust, as I have it on a shelf under a side table where it tends to get dusty pretty fast.  And yes, that was my most recent question, if it needed breathe, to prevent from heating up.  okay, I will have find something else to cover it.


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> Again, just to keep it free of dust, as I have it on a shelf under a side table where it tends to get dusty pretty fast.  And yes, that was my most recent question, if it needed breathe, to prevent from heating up.  okay, I will have find something else to cover it.



The TA is probably one of the better pieces of equipment to cover up as it generates very little heat but yes in general electrical equipment needs some airflow around it


----------



## candlejack (Jun 5, 2020)

@adrianm Isn't the Dave like 10 grand? Of course, it's your money, but considering that the headphones are responsible for 90% of the sound quality impact, I see no point in spending that kind of dough on a source. Nothing against the Dave, it's just an issue of balancing the budget.

PS: If you're spending that kind of money, why not stay with Sony and go for the DMP? At least that one you can lug around.


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> @adrianm Isn't the Dave like 10 grand? Of course, it's your money, but considering that the headphones are responsible for 90% of the sound quality impact, I see no point in spending that kind of dough on a source. Nothing against the Dave, it's just an issue of balancing the budget.
> 
> PS: If you're spending that kind of money, why not stay with Sony and go for the DMP? At least that one you can lug around.



I've been happy with the TA plus Auralic Aries Mini and MDR-Z1R for home rig for 3 1/2 years and have absolutely no desire to try or buy anything new, spending money on more music and enjoying the excelent sound


----------



## adrianm

It is,but you can realistically expect a 30% + discount on it.When i said 10% earlier i wasn't aware of the actual retail price.And yes it's still ridiculously expensive.But it seems to be so well designed that it's almost immune problems with sources ,power (seems to have a really good psu) and you can at least forget about fixing a lot of stuff that might end up costing you a lot more while never actually getting you that close to that level of performance.If you can afford it ofc. Idk ,listening to the Hugo TT2 (4k+) and the Mscaler (4k+) i honestly didn't feel like i was missing anything with the TA.But vs the Dave it was kinda mind blowing how analogue it sounded even out of the 300 euro streamer that sounded bad on the TA. I know it's no revelation that a 10k dac sounds better than a 2k dac,and another pair of headphones might be a bigger step up ,but I've just never heard that type of analogue,balanced,layer and textured sound before,even putting tonality aside.And being so neutral with the Z1R'r bass boost seemed like a great fit to me.I just wanted to listen what an endgame would sound like to see if it would make sense to spend more money on high end streamers and other crap or save up for a Dave way down the road. But now i'm seriously considering returning the TA to Amazon and just getting the Dave.First world problems i know.Also don't have money burning a hole in my pocket or anything,i just loved it that much.


----------



## adrianm

nc8000 said:


> I've been happy with the TA plus Auralic Aries Mini and MDR-Z1R for home rig for 3 1/2 years and have absolutely no desire to try or buy anything new, spending money on more music and enjoying the excelent sound


You really have no reason not to be from what i've heard today.I just with i had stopped at the TT2+Mscaler and didn't go up to the Dave .It's not a night and day difference,i just love the little extra separation and layering and more neutral tonality,while not sounding sterile.Especially compared to the 4k Auralic Vega 1 i heard yesterday (a lot worse than all of them) 
   I still think that Sony got it so right with it + Z1R (to my tastes,except a little too much bass on some tracks) .And for a fraction of the cost of the Chord and other gear it's a no brainer. I'm just crazy to be considering returning it for a dac that costs 5 times as much and trying to justify it by deducting streamer and other equipment costs.Might make more sense just keeping it considering the 1.2k i paid for it  and getting the Dave later when it's not such a big financial effort .Can't get it out of my head though.Haven't had that feeling since listening to the Z1R's for the first time in the same place alongside the Audeze XC (im kinda limited to closed hp).
   Regarding the DMP-Z1 i know some people got it and are crazy about it but those same ppl were crazy about the TA when it first came out.And the Z1r's.And now moved on to the Focal Stellias ,DMP-Z1,etc.They probably have more money to burn on flavour-of-the-month gear,but i'd rather just get something i've heard and loved and keep it for a long time.And since there's no way to listen to the Z1....


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> You really have no reason not to be from what i've heard today.I just with i had stopped at the TT2+Mscaler and didn't go up to the Dave .It's not a night and day difference,i just love the little extra separation and layering and more neutral tonality,while not sounding sterile.Especially compared to the 4k Auralic Vega 1 i heard yesterday (a lot worse than all of them)
> I still think that Sony got it so right with it + Z1R (to my tastes,except a little too much bass on some tracks) .And for a fraction of the cost of the Chord and other gear it's a no brainer. I'm just crazy to be considering returning it for a dac that costs 5 times as much and trying to justify it by deducting streamer and other equipment costs.Might make more sense just keeping it considering the 1.2k i paid for it  and getting the Dave later when it's not such a big financial effort .Can't get it out of my head though.Haven't had that feeling since listening to the Z1R's for the first time in the same place alongside the Audeze XC (im kinda limited to closed hp).
> Regarding the DMP-Z1 i know some people got it and are crazy about it but those same ppl were crazy about the TA when it first came out.And the Z1r's.And now moved on to the Focal Stellias ,DMP-Z1,etc.They probably have more money to burn on flavour-of-the-month gear,but i'd rather just get something i've heard and loved and keep it for a long time.And since there's no way to listen to the Z1....



That’s the problem, once you’ve heard something you can’t unhear it


----------



## adrianm

nc8000 said:


> That’s the problem, once you’ve heard something you can’t unhear it


Yes,I really should have listened to people who said not to listen to it until you're ready to buy it.


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> Yes,I really should have listened to people who said not to listen to it until you're ready to buy it.



Sometimes ignorance is bliss


----------



## JerryHead (Jun 5, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> The TA is probably one of the better pieces of equipment to cover up as it generates very little heat but yes in general electrical equipment needs some airflow around it


I found these on Amazon.  I plan to put two rows of three (side by side) on top.  Hopefully the holes are small enough to block dust.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WD2NL8Q/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ASZMAELU59OLS&psc=1
or maybe better yet, some mosquito netting cut to size:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074QKGJ6G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1NEGMSAH1B3EB&psc=1


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> I'm not so sure about that, but I don't have time to do the research for a proper counter. Regardless of the theoretical advantage, I don't seem to hear a difference.
> 
> Am I missing something here? Is this device super old, so that it's _"the first to [...]" _? Because as far as I know all DACs (at least all the ones I've seen discussed on this forum) operate on their own clock, so completely independently of the source frequency (i.e. _asynchronously_)
> 
> I imagine you mean 2TB.


well the usb clock and the dac clock are separate things ,i think this is what causes it to sound different with different sources/cables (or one of the reasons at least) .Found this bit by Rob Watts :

“_No I don't talk about clocks, as it's way way too complex. Jitter is much more complex than simple jitter figures, as different DAC architectures have profoundly different sensitivity to clock jitter. Then there is the issue of source jitter, which I have eliminated through my DPLL. Pulse array is insensitive to clock jitter, plus the active switching elements (something nobody ever talks about) is extremely low jitter. Turning off the noise shaper OP, and having DC on the pulse array outputs, only changes noise by 0.5dB - so jitter simply isn't an issue._”

Not pretending i undestand everything here but the Dave did sound almost the same with the node2i streamer as with the 10k streaming setup,unlike the TA.So it seems whatever he did,works.Though I can say the same about the Vega 1.I know it has 2 identical femto clocks,one for the usb ,1 for the dac ,it probably completely reclocks the signal to be at the same frequency,which would explain why i heard no difference with it streaming to itself vs the macbook streaming to it.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> But now i'm seriously considering returning the TA to Amazon and just getting the Dave.





adrianm said:


> I'm just crazy to be considering returning it for a dac that costs 5 times as much and trying to justify it by deducting streamer and other equipment costs.


Nah, man. just go for it. You might be dead next month. If you can afford it, go for it. Ideally, get it while you still have the TA so you can compare them in the comfort of your own (dirty power) home and decide which one you're going to keep.  


adrianm said:


> well the usb clock and the dac clock are separate things ,i think this is what causes it to sound different with different sources/cables (or one of the reasons at least) .Found this bit by Rob Watts :
> 
> “_No I don't talk about clocks, as it's way way too complex. Jitter is much more complex than simple jitter figures, as different DAC architectures have profoundly different sensitivity to clock jitter. Then there is the issue of source jitter, which I have eliminated through my DPLL. Pulse array is insensitive to clock jitter, plus the active switching elements (something nobody ever talks about) is extremely low jitter. Turning off the noise shaper OP, and having DC on the pulse array outputs, only changes noise by 0.5dB - so jitter simply isn't an issue._”
> 
> Not pretending i undestand everything here but the Dave did sound almost the same with the node2i streamer as with the 10k streaming setup,unlike the TA.So it seems whatever he did,works.Though I can say the same about the Vega 1.I know it has 2 identical femto clocks,one for the usb ,1 for the dac ,it probably completely reclocks the signal to be at the same frequency,which would explain why i heard no difference with it streaming to itself vs the macbook streaming to it.


Oh, of course, the DPLL! Completely forgot about that. Seriously though, source jitter should not be an issue, so it's no wonder he's managed to "eliminate it". I don't see the point of the 2 clocks setup you mention (one for USB and the other for the DAC). Why can't the USB use the same clock as the DAC and why would it need a super accurate clock to begin with?

It's also very possible that I don't have a full picture and that's why I don't _get it._


----------



## Redcarmoose

JerryHead said:


> Anyone heard of someone putting some form of dust cover on the TA?  It's a beautiful piece of equipment, and my preferred location for it, under a side table, gathers a lot of dust frequently down there.  I can't think of what I could use to protect it..



I take the dustcover towel off when I use it.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 5, 2020)

adrianm said:


> I just took another trip with the TA to local Hi-fi store and tested a bunch of toys withe MDR Z1R (Dave,Hugo TT2 with and without Mscaler) and i've also tested each of them fed by a 300 euro Node2i vs fed by a 10k streaming solution (naim ndx2 dac used as a transport + power supply).
> Shockingly,they did sound different ,both feeding the TA via coax,the node sounded a lot harsher and more metallic ( worse than what i remembered my pc sounding ,but maybe i was just spoiled by the Dave and Naim at that point and it sounded worse in comparison).
> And it was coax ,not usb, so fancy cables and  reclockers aside,i don't know why the difference,but apparently i was wrong, digital source does make a  diffence. It was kinda negligible  considering the price delta,but all that analog sound and bla bla did ring true to my ears using the TA with both sources.With the Dave it made a lot less of a difference though.
> The point of this exercise was to see if i should return the TA for a Hugo TT2 and add an Mscaler later or just save up and eventually get the Dave.I'm sure all the audiophiles listening to fancy orchestras in DSD while smoking cigars will cry out blasphemy,but here it is :
> ...



The Coaxial is by far the least quality input in my experience with the TA. They say optical is better, though haven’t tried?


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> It is,but you can realistically expect a 30% + discount on it.When i said 10% earlier i wasn't aware of the actual retail price.And yes it's still ridiculously expensive.But it seems to be so well designed that it's almost immune problems with sources ,power (seems to have a really good psu) and you can at least forget about fixing a lot of stuff that might end up costing you a lot more while never actually getting you that close to that level of performance.If you can afford it ofc. Idk ,listening to the Hugo TT2 (4k+) and the Mscaler (4k+) i honestly didn't feel like i was missing anything with the TA.But vs the Dave it was kinda mind blowing how analogue it sounded even out of the 300 euro streamer that sounded bad on the TA. I know it's no revelation that a 10k dac sounds better than a 2k dac,and another pair of headphones might be a bigger step up ,but I've just never heard that type of analogue,balanced,layer and textured sound before,even putting tonality aside.And being so neutral with the Z1R'r bass boost seemed like a great fit to me.I just wanted to listen what an endgame would sound like to see if it would make sense to spend more money on high end streamers and other crap or save up for a Dave way down the road. But now i'm seriously considering returning the TA to Amazon and just getting the Dave.First world problems i know.Also don't have money burning a hole in my pocket or anything,i just loved it that much.


You can probably buy hundreds of these for the cost of one Dave!  Just sayin...


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> You can probably buy hundreds of these for the cost of one Dave!  Just sayin...


This might be an age thing,but i have no idea what those things are


----------



## Redcarmoose

adrianm said:


> This might be an age thing,but i have no idea what those things are






Predecessor to the Walkman! I actually remember them from the late 1960s. The technology was first adapted by both rock and roll teens and sports fanatics simultaneously!


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> This might be an age thing,but i have no idea what those things are



Transistor radios probably 50’s to 70’s


----------



## adrianm (Jun 6, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


> The Coaxial is by far the least quality input in my experience with the TA. They say optical is better, though haven’t tried?


I was thinking the same thing,going to order an optical cable and give it a shot.
I kinda got sad when i got home and realized the TA sounds worse at home than it did over there.While i was comparing it with the Dave and etc,i was really happy with it (except when it was hooked up to the node2i) Quite a shocker,sounds better connected to a 10k streamer and 10k mains filters.
   Going to try optical and adding the new chord streamer (battery powered) 2yu (well half of a streamer ) when it comes out. Jitter or other magic stuff,it's supposed to sound better. Just curious if i could use it plugged in after the battery dies,because replacing it will be expensive.
  I think returning the TA and getting the Dave now would be crazy ,especially since i love it.I'd rather save up for a bit and eventually (sooner rather than later,knowing me) upgrade to the Dave.
  Plus my Sony Kimber cable just shipped from Japan and no way to cancel/return that order i think.And i won't be able to use it with the Dave,will have to sell it with the TA probably.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 6, 2020)

adrianm said:


> I was thinking the same thing,going to order an optical cable and give it a shot.
> I kinda got sad when i got home and realized the TA sounds worse at home than it did over there.While i was comparing it with the Dave and etc,i was really happy with it (except when it was hooked up to the node2i) Quite a shocker,sounds better connected to a 10k streamer and 10k mains filters.
> Going to try optical and adding the new chord streamer (battery powered) 2yu (well half of a streamer ) when it comes out. Jitter or other magic stuff,it's supposed to sound better. Just curious if i could use it plugged in after the battery dies,because replacing it will be expensive.
> I think returning the TA and getting the Dave now would be crazy ,especially since i love it.I'd rather save up for a bit and eventually (sooner rather than later,knowing me) upgrade to the Dave.
> Plus my Sony Kimber cable just shipped from Japan and no way to cancel/return that order i think.And i won't be able to use it with the Dave,will have to sell it with the TA probably.



It’s a slow and confusing process. Even the few experts I’ve asked were not able to explain why. But my prior process was a Rega Planet which even though old was and kinda is still regarded as a good digital transport. Obviously after getting the 1Z/1A Cradle and AQCarbon I had a baseline of understood sound. So out of curiosity going Coaxial from the Rega with a 16bit/44.1 Redbook CD playing; I thought would be grand and at least as good? Surprisingly not? Not as loud, not as good as soundstage and not as clear and dynamic sounding. Asking member https://www.head-fi.org/members/whitigir.378966/ why the digital from my CD player was not as good as the Walkman, he couldn’t really explain.

And I don’t want to hand you a quest searching for a red herring but in my experience the 1A/1Z are a special source for the TA. I simply don’t know why but use my ears. Also the Walkmans don’t really work for you as you want streaming.

Many don’t know this but many Mac laptops have Toslink Optical out. It’s crazy but it’s actually inside of the laptops 3.5mm analog out? You simply get the Apple optical cable and plug it into the laptop and to the TA bypassing USB. And while I haven’t tried that I’m on the edge of trying the optical out of my 65 inch Samsung smart TV to the TA? In that test (because I’m probably not going to buy the Apple 3.5mm optical) your taking the TV playing files and seeing if the optical file playback from the TV will be any good.

My TV listening normally is fairly simple, using optical out from the TV to an Onkyo receiver then to a pair of AKG k701 headphones, which are perfect for movies.

To me every source sounds different, every playback software sounds different too, so it’s easy to accept that the TA will sound different from every digital source.

Also you have to believe the 10K AC unit is going to do wonders for the TA. If you’ve ever seen the Greek Audiophile Club video on YouTube those maniacs say the final frontier is power filtering.

The thing is maybe it’s hard to compare apples and oranges going to that shop. The oranges are there and the apples at home.







https://www.amazon.com/Toslink-Fosmon-Digital-Optical-Chromecast/dp/B01MY2DJUM

In ending it seems like a try to get streaming from a Mac to your TA? At least an option to investigate. Maybe someone who uses one can report in, along with their streaming service and computer specs?


----------



## nc8000

Redcarmoose said:


> It’s a slow and confusing process. Even the few experts I’ve asked were not able to explain why. But my prior process was a Rega Planet which even though old was and kinda is still regarded as a good digital transport. Obviously after getting the 1Z/1A Cradle and AQCarbon I had a baseline of understood sound. So out of curiosity going Coaxial from the Rega with a 16bit/44.1 Redbook CD playing; I thought would be grand and at least as good? Surprisingly not? Not as loud, not as good as soundstage and not as clear and dynamic sounding. Asking member https://www.head-fi.org/members/whitigir.378966/ why the digital from my CD player was not as good as the Walkman, he couldn’t really explain.
> 
> And I don’t want to hand you a quest searching for a red herring but in my experience the 1A/1Z are a special source for the TA. I simply don’t know why but use my ears. Also the Walkmans don’t really work for you as you want streaming.
> 
> ...



The Acer netbook I used as source before getting the Auralic also had optical in the 3.5 jack as did several Sony discman players I had together with iBasso D1 and D10 dac/amps that used to be my travel rigs


----------



## Redcarmoose

nc8000 said:


> The Acer netbook I used as source before getting the Auralic also had optical in the 3.5 jack as did several Sony discman players I had together with iBasso D1 and D10 dac/amps that used to be my travel rigs



And even though you never picked up the AQCarbon you have basically left using the 1Z/Cradle as a source to your TA, right? Or did you always use a dedicated streaming device? Also what have you plugged into your TA that was good, besides what you use now?


----------



## adrianm

nc8000 said:


> The Acer netbook I used as source before getting the Auralic also had optical in the 3.5 jack as did several Sony discman players I had together with iBasso D1 and D10 dac/amps that used to be my travel rigs


I know some of the new walkmans support streaming.But i'd rather use my pc.I think the simplest explanation for why the walkmans sound so good is that they are battery powered and well designed.That seems to be the cheapest way to design quality audio .Same with the new chord streamer.But considering battery replacements will prob cost 150-200 euros for a 500 euro device  i'm not sure if it makes more sense than to just go for an auralic mini with LPS or a g1.


----------



## nc8000

Redcarmoose said:


> And even though you never picked up the AQCarbon you have basically left using the 1Z/Cradle as a source to your TA, right? Or did you always use a dedicated streaming device? Also what have you plugged into your TA that was good, besides what you use now?



I never used the cradle for anything other than charging stand which is why I sold it and got the cheaper stand. 

I had the Acer connected for a few moths before getting the Auralic and that is the only music sources I have used with the TA and then my tv via optical for watching tv after my wife has gone to bed


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> I know some of the new walkmans support streaming.But i'd rather use my pc.I think the simplest explanation for why the walkmans sound so good is that they are battery powered and well designed.That seems to be the cheapest way to design quality audio .Same with the new chord streamer.But considering battery replacements will prob cost 150-200 euros for a 500 euro device  i'm not sure if it makes more sense than to just go for an auralic mini with LPS or a g1.



I went with the Auralic due to being able to have a build in drive as 90% of the time I play my own files and the 1Z simply hasen’t got big enough storage. That it has an integrated Tidal client was just a bonus


----------



## adrianm

I'm sure this was asked and answered a million times already but does the 1Z sound better than the 1A? isn't it the same internals just gold plating?


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 6, 2020)

adrianm said:


> I'm sure this was asked and answered a million times already but does the 1Z sound better than the 1A? isn't it the same internals just gold plating?



No it is not the same. 1Z has copper chasis, better caps and better internal wires. Now whether one sounds better than the other is up to personal preference


----------



## Redcarmoose

adrianm said:


> I was thinking the same thing,going to order an optical cable and give it a shot.
> I kinda got sad when i got home and realized the TA sounds worse at home than it did over there.While i was comparing it with the Dave and etc,i was really happy with it (except when it was hooked up to the node2i) Quite a shocker,sounds better connected to a 10k streamer and 10k mains filters.
> Going to try optical and adding the new chord streamer (battery powered) 2yu (well half of a streamer ) when it comes out. Jitter or other magic stuff,it's supposed to sound better. Just curious if i could use it plugged in after the battery dies,because replacing it will be expensive.
> I think returning the TA and getting the Dave now would be crazy ,especially since i love it.I'd rather save up for a bit and eventually (sooner rather than later,knowing me) upgrade to the Dave.
> Plus my Sony Kimber cable just shipped from Japan and no way to cancel/return that order i think.And i won't be able to use it with the Dave,will have to sell it with the TA probably.



“Quite a shocker,sounds better connected to a 10k streamer and 10k mains filters.”

This statement from you is sarcasm right? But in truth it’s the only changes which you can attribute to the sound changes when you got home. Though I’m curious, do you have everything now with exception of the Kimber cable? Also what headphones? And may I ask why you didn’t set up your system as it would have been at home before you purchased at the shop? 

My suggestion is when you get the Kimber just let everything run for a solid week. The TA really does smooth out after 200 hours. At the same time you can run-in your network streamer/Kimber Kable and headphones too. You may find even that a simple power filter after all that gets you close to the shop experience?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 6, 2020)

adrianm said:


> I'm sure this was asked and answered a million times already but does the 1Z sound better than the 1A? isn't it the same internals just gold plating?



The 1A is by far the better deal. The 1A for the longest time was fairly bright in my use. Sounded perfect with the IER-Z1R always.......but with the newest firmware from Sony (3.02)...the 1A had a noticeable slightly sterile personality. Still slightly warm, but thinner sounding than the 1Z.

So for us who own the 1A, the new aftermarket 3rd party firmware issues took the 1A much closer to the 1Z. The 1Z with it’s case, capacitors and Kimber Kable offers a thinker more life-like sound. The 1Z has more substantial physicality in both bass and treble. The soundstage is fairly right to left with the 1A, yet better with new firmware and a region change to “J” which is making the player think it’s domestic. Though it’s the full front to back 1Z soundstage where imaging is not just fatter, but more realistic and clearer.

Sony has stated that they have made two distinct sound profiles to cater to the deviation of tone taste in the audiophile community; one flat, one Hi/Fi.


----------



## adrianm

Redcarmoose said:


> “Quite a shocker,sounds better connected to a 10k streamer and 10k mains filters.”
> 
> This statement from you is sarcasm right? But in truth it’s the only changes which you can attribute to the sound changes when you got home. Though I’m curious, do you have everything now with exception of the Kimber cable? Also what headphones? And may I ask why you didn’t set up your system as it would have been at home before you purchased at the shop?
> 
> My suggestion is when you get the Kimber just let everything run for a solid week. The TA really does smooth out after 200 hours. At the same time you can run-in your network streamer/Kimber Kable and headphones too. You may find even that a simple power filter after all that gets you close to the shop experience?



Yes,it was sarcasm. I've had the TA for a month now and the sound did change over the first week or so (gear burn in,brain burn ,i don't know).I'm using it with the MDR Z1R's ,which i've been using with the Mojo for about 2 years at the office.
  I also did buy a mains filter for it,the Isotek Sirius with their Initium cable going into the wall and Premier into the TA.This was a huge improvement in all areas. I have the filter  wall mounted so couldn't take it with me and it seemed too much of a hassle at the shop to ask them to unplug power filters as well since i already tested at least all possible combinations with the streamers in both the TA,the Hugo tt2 with and without the Mscaler and the Dave.Plus Covid and everything i had to make an appointment,get temperature taken,masks,gloves,etc etc.
     They wouldn't even let me try on the Focal Stellias even though they were right there..connected to the Dave.
    I don't have a streamer now,was considering the Aries G1 or Mini.I'm using the TA with a Chord C-line USB cable into my gaming pc.I'm sure this is my biggest problem at the moment after what i've heard (it sounds close to the TA with a node 2i in the shop,a lot worse than the naim setup).
  But spending 2k on a streamer to use with the TA, it makes more sense to just return the TA and get the Dave (it's still 2.5 times the  price of both,i know) since i've heard it isn't as fussy about source/power (better designed i guess,and for that money it better be).
  I can't be sure how the Dave will sound at home though,without the 10k streamer and 10k power filters/regenerators.
     So i'll probably keep the TA untill i get the Dave and i can compare them both at home,like Candlejack suggested.And get a more sanely priced streamer.The dave is a crazy amount of money but if it really is more or less immune to power/source it might make up for it in the long run with less money spend on streamers and filters and etc.Plus it sounded absolutely amazing.
I might be trying to justify it to myself.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 6, 2020)

adrianm said:


> Yes,it was sarcasm. I've had the TA for a month now and the sound did change over the first week or so (gear burn in,brain burn ,i don't know).I'm using it with the MDR Z1R's ,which i've been using with the Mojo for about 2 years at the office.
> I also did buy a mains filter for it,the Isotek Sirius with their Initium cable going into the wall and Premier into the TA.This was a huge improvement in all areas. I have the filter  wall mounted so couldn't take it with me and it seemed too much of a hassle at the shop to ask them to unplug power filters as well since i already tested at least all possible combinations with the streamers in both the TA,the Hugo tt2 with and without the Mscaler and the Dave.Plus Covid and everything i had to make an appointment,get temperature taken,masks,gloves,etc etc.
> They wouldn't even let me try on the Focal Stellias even though they were right there..connected to the Dave.
> I don't have a streamer now,was considering the Aries G1 or Mini.I'm using the TA with a Chord C-line USB cable into my gaming pc.I'm sure this is my biggest problem at the moment after what i've heard (it sounds close to the TA with a node 2i in the shop,a lot worse than the naim setup).
> ...



I totally understand. You heard what you really liked but you would not let yourself buy........just yet (or ever ). But you use it as a reference. So you have the TA and MDR-Z1R and now all of a sudden realize that digital source quality (for whatever reason) has a fairly substantial part. The whole process is highly confusing as your (during the Covid-lockdown no less) attempting to balance your own interpretation of both tone and detail........which normally is super difficult anyway even under the best possible circumstances!!

For a few of us we simply drank the Sony-Walkman Kool-Aid and stopped chasing stuff. Obviously many of us are not done purchasing? Your probably going to keep checking sources...... if not only casually in time.

I would guess you may find the Kimber effect additional and profound, even though I’ll get flamed even here for such a statement!

Good luck!


----------



## adrianm

Redcarmoose said:


> I totally understand. You heard what you really liked but you would not let yourself buy it just yet (or ever ). But you use it as a reference. So you have the TA and MDR-Z1R and now all of a sudden realize that digital source quality (for whatever reason) has a fairly substantial part. The whole process is highly confusing as your (during the Covid-lockdown no less) attempting to balance your own interpretation of both tone and detail........which normally is super difficult anyway even under the best possible circumstances!!
> 
> For a few of us we simply drank the Sony-Walkman Kool-Aid and stopped chasing stuff. But......that not to say our quest will not ever start up again? Your obviously going to keep checking sources...... if not only casually in time.
> 
> ...


Yes,it's a clear upgrade over the TA and anything else i have heard but hard to justify 5X price at the moment with all this uncertainty.I guess the responsible thing to do is give it 6-8 months and listen to it again before i buy it.
  Since i only stream i guess i have to decide on a streamer...and hope that gets me closer to what it sounded like in the showroom.Either the Aries Mini,G1 (2x price) or the battery powered upcoming Chord stremer. Just hope i can continue to use it plugged in after the batteries are dead since i've heard Chord charges ridiculous amounts for battery replacements.This one also has the benefit of fitting into the whole Chord ecosystem and connecting directly to the M-scaler (way down the line).


----------



## candlejack

And awaaay we go...


adrianm said:


> Quite a shocker,sounds better connected to a 10k streamer and 10k mains filters.
> 
> Plus my Sony Kimber cable just shipped from Japan and no way to cancel/return that order i think.And i won't be able to use it with the Dave,will have to sell it with the TA probably.


It certainly is a shocker for me. Well, actually, on second thought, no, it's not. A shocker would be if that got proven to be the case. The fact that someone can get that impression is a lot more in line with expectations.

If you're worried about the Kimber, I may take it off your hands, if the price is right. 


Redcarmoose said:


> [...] Even the few experts I’ve asked were not able to explain why. [...] Asking member https://www.head-fi.org/members/whitigir.378966/ why the digital from my CD player was not as good as the Walkman, he couldn’t really explain.
> 
> [...] I simply don’t know why but use my ears.
> 
> ...


I'm not looking to make it personal, but are you implying this guy is an "expert"?

That's fair, but you're not just using your ears, you're also using your brain. Audiophiles often show interest in how the human ear works, but rarely go the full distance and also look into the brain's role.

I basically know nothing about optical, but that's really cool. 


Redcarmoose said:


> “Quite a shocker,sounds better connected to a 10k streamer and 10k mains filters.”
> 
> This statement from you is sarcasm right? But in truth it’s the only changes which you can attribute to the sound changes when you got home.


I would argue that the 1-2 hours elapsed between the two experiences are more than enough to explain a difference in sound, but I know, that's crazy talk to most audiophiles.


Redcarmoose said:


> Sony has stated that they have made two distinct sound profiles to cater to the deviation of tone taste in the audiophile community; one flat, one Hi/Fi.


That is very interesting. Wonder why they wouldn't simply make it an option in the menu. Where exactly did Sony make this statement?


Redcarmoose said:


> I would guess you may find the Kimber effect additional and profound, even though I’ll get flamed even here for such a statement!


While you might be right, this statement is a lot less flammable than analogous ones made about USB cables, at least in my oh-so-humble opinion.


----------



## candlejack

@adrianm You mentioned that closed-back is the only option for you and that you're using the MDR-Z1R at work. But I imagine you keep the TA at home, with the power filter, etc. So is it really not an option to use a open-back at home? 

I also listen to music at work, but because _it's work_ and I have to focus a lot on what I'm doing, the sound quality doesn't really make much of a difference, since my brain cannot devote a lot of resources to processing the sound. So I imagine that your main priority is your home setup.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> @adrianm You mentioned that closed-back is the only option for you and that you're using the MDR-Z1R at work. But I imagine you keep the TA at home, with the power filter, etc. So is it really not an option to use a open-back at home?
> 
> I also listen to music at work, but because _it's work_ and I have to focus a lot on what I'm doing, the sound quality doesn't really make much of a difference, since my brain cannot devote a lot of resources to processing the sound. So I imagine that your main priority is your home setup.


At home i have my desk right next to my gf and even the Z1R's turned up drive her crazy  It's become a priority since i work exclusively from home now.This is why i was fine with the Mojo for 2 years.But things might change if i have to go back to the office.I almost never listened to music at home before since i was gaming all the time. Now since i got the TA i'd rather listen to it. This is why i'm hesitant to pull the trigger on a Dave for Home.Plus i'm kind of sick of lugging the Z1r around even if i do drive to work .So i might want to get a more portable headphone/in ear to use with the Mojo and leave the Z1r at home.I kinda have trouble with most in ears though. Except Airpods pro which i used at the gym.But from what you've told me the IER Z1R's aren't very comfortable so no idea what i'm gonna do once i go back to the office.
  First world diva problems i know.


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> At home i have my desk right next to my gf and even the Z1R's turned up drive her crazy  It's become a priority since i work exclusively from home now.This is why i was fine with the Mojo for 2 years.But things might change if i have to go back to the office.I almost never listened to music at home before since i was gaming all the time. Now since i got the TA i'd rather listen to it. This is why i'm hesitant to pull the trigger on a Dave for Home.Plus i'm kind of sick of lugging the Z1r around even if i do drive to work .So i might want to get a more portable headphone/in ear to use with the Mojo and leave the Z1r at home.I kinda have trouble with most in ears though. Except Airpods pro which i used at the gym.But from what you've told me the IER Z1R's aren't very comfortable so no idea what i'm gonna do once i go back to the office.
> First world diva problems i know.



Comfort of the IER is a very personal thing so you need to try yourself. I can use them all day no problem and even lie down on my side on a pillow while others have had to give up on them due to comfort or fit issues


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 6, 2020)

candlejack said:


> And awaaay we go...
> 
> It certainly is a shocker for me. Well, actually, on second thought, no, it's not. A shocker would be if that got proven to be the case. The fact that someone can get that impression is a lot more in line with expectations.
> 
> ...



1)
It is good to be suggesting that much money spent in the audiophile world is unfounded and crazy; ahhh because your right, and it is crazy at times. But just remember as far as audio spending goes, we here at Head-Fi are small timers. Meaning that full-size speaker rigs can get expensive fast. So even $30K - $40K systems here are a big deal but does not pay for 1/4 of a set of two channel speakers at times.

And your right, that attitude (expectations) are not scientific nor reliable. We all are always baffled by our assumptions and expectation bias. But it’s difficult and everyone does the best they can. Later when the dust settles truth can emerge. I know for a fact that one pair of IEMs does not sound as good from my IPod Touch as they do from the Walkman 1A or 1Z.

2)
The person I listed is someone who has given mountains of improvement to this community. Someone who I trust to know more than I and someone with a bunch of experiences and inventions. Expert.....yes. The fact that what I purchased was emulating his system at the time. 

3)
It’s not in the menu as an option because not everything can be affected with EQ or firmware. Things like casework, wires and capacitors will also add tone which is of another additional aspect to the end sound personality.

4)
It’s common knowledge the two players were designed to complement each other with two specific sounds. You may run across the Sony literature explaining their motives. I’m actually pretty sure the main engineer has stated it on YouTube videos when introducing the Walkmans.


----------



## candlejack

nc8000 said:


> Comfort of the IER is a very personal thing so you need to try yourself. I can use them all day no problem and even lie down on my side on a pillow while others have had to give up on them due to comfort or fit issues


Exactly what I was going to say. It's not that they're not comfortable in general, they're just less "universal" than other IEM designs. So it becomes a lot more a game of chance if you're going to get a good fit or not. The reason I said you shouldn't bother with it is 25% due to the IER's pickiness and 75% to your general dislike for IEMs.


----------



## nc8000

Redcarmoose said:


> 1)
> It is good to be suggesting that much money spent in the audiophile world is unfounded and crazy; ahhh because your right, and it is crazy at times. But just remember as far as audio spending goes, we here at Head-Fi are small timers. Meaning that full-size speaker rigs can get expensive fast. So even $30K - $40K systems here are a big deal but does not pay for 1/4 of a set of two channel speakers at times.
> 
> And your right, that attitude (expectations) are not scientific nor reliable. We all are always baffled by our assumptions and expectation bias. But it’s difficult and everyone does the best they can. Later when the dust settles truth can emerge. I know for a fact that one pair of IEMs does not sound as good from my iPod Touch as they do from the Walkman 1A or 1Z.
> ...



The 1A is the original design and the 1Z was Sonys take on a modded player


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> The person I listed is someone who has given mountains of improvement to this community. Someone who I trust to know more than I and someone with a bunch of experiences and inventions. Expert.....yes.
> 
> It’s not in the menu as an option because not everything can be affected with EQ or firmware. Things like casework, wires and capacitors will also add tone which is of another additional aspect to the end sound personality.


1. Honest question: can you give an example of an invention attributed to him?

2. Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that the regions were tuned differently. I guess you were referring to the 1A vs 1Z instead.


----------



## candlejack (Jun 6, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> The 1A is the original design and the 1Z was Sonys take on a modded player


Didn't they come out at the same time?


----------



## JerryHead

I'm suspecting my discounted, "brand-new, factory sealed" unit had in fact been opened and possibly used before I received it.  There isn't any way to see the number of hours on the device as there is on the 1A/1Z, is there?


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> Didn't they come out at the same time?



Yes but the 1A was the original design


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 6, 2020)

candlejack said:


> 1. Honest question: can you give an example of an invention attributed to him?
> 
> 2. Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that the regions were tuned differently. I guess you were referring to the 1A vs 1Z instead.



If you wanted me to I could easily show you a quick 40 inventions. Go start with the 1A/1Z Modification Thread. Note all the aftermarket firmwares he has made. Go to the DMP-Z1 thread and note the power supply mod. Take a look at the early modifications he did to his first 1Z, follow to the next 1A and continue with seeking out the changes to his current 1Z. Not to mention cable building, heck I’m pretty sure he modified the Sony Cradle too. There is literally so much stuff his has done I can’t remember it all. He figured out taking the filters out of the IER-Z1R. These ideas go on and on. Custom firmware for the DMP-Z1. It’s almost endless. 

His first Walkman mods have been emulated by others and when they hit the used market he gets mentioned as he is responsible for how they sound. These people have no other way to describe what changes they have done to their device.


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> I'm suspecting my discounted, "brand-new, factory sealed" unit had in fact been opened and possibly used before I received it.  There isn't any way to see the number of hours on the device as there is on the 1A/1Z, is there?



No


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 6, 2020)

.


----------



## JerryHead

If the source device is simply storing the files, and has no bearing at all on the sound output, how come if I adjust the volume on my Android DAP (plugged into the TA through the USB port), the volume level correspondingly goes up/down through my attached headphones?  (Just to clarify, the display of the TA doesn't indicate the volume is being changed while I'm doing this.)


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> If the source device is simply storing the files, and has no bearing at all on the sound output, how come if I adjust the volume on my Android DAP (plugged into the TA through the USB port), the volume level correspondingly goes up/down through my attached headphones?  (Just to clarify, the display of the TA doesn't indicate the volume is being changed while I'm doing this.)



Because the player allows volume adjustment of the digital output. On my Auralic streamer I have an option to allow the Auralic to control volume or not on the digital output


----------



## JerryHead

nc8000 said:


> Because the player allows volume adjustment of the digital output. On my Auralic streamer I have an option to allow the Auralic to control volume or not on the digital output


Ah, okay, thanks.  Then for optimal SQ, I would think the best thing to do is to enable this setting on the storage device, and then turn the volume all the way up on that device, and proceed to adjust to the desired volume level on the TA?


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> Ah, okay, thanks.  Then for optimal SQ, I would think the best thing to do is to enable this setting on the storage device, and then turn the volume all the way up on that device, and proceed to adjust to the desired volume level on the TA?



That at least is what I have done


----------



## JerryHead

nc8000 said:


> That at least is what I have done


Okay, thanks, I have to say, it does sound best this way!


----------



## JerryHead

Soo, no one here has had any problems with their TA that required it to be serviced?


----------



## candlejack (Jun 6, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


> If you wanted me to I could easily show you a quick 40 inventions. Go start with the 1A/1Z Modification Thread. Note all the aftermarket firmwares he has made. Go to the DMP-Z1 thread and note the power supply mod. Take a look at the early modifications he did to his first 1Z, follow to the next 1A and continue with seeking out the changes to his current 1Z. Not to mention cable building, heck I’m pretty sure he modified the Sony Cradle too. There is literally so much stuff his has done I can’t remember it all. He figured out taking the filters out of the IER-Z1R. These ideas go on and on. Custom firmware for the DMP-Z1. It’s almost endless.
> 
> His first Walkman mods have been emulated by others and when they hit the used market he gets mentioned as he is responsible for how they sound. These people have no other way to describe what changes they have done to their device.


Seems we have different definitions for _inventor_ and I'm afraid yours happens to be incorrect.


JerryHead said:


> If the source device is simply storing the files, and has no bearing at all on the sound output, how come if I adjust the volume on my Android DAP (plugged into the TA through the USB port), the volume level correspondingly goes up/down through my attached headphones?  (Just to clarify, the display of the TA doesn't indicate the volume is being changed while I'm doing this.)


It appears that particular source is not simply storing the files. There's no technical reason why a source could not apply processing to the digital data before sending it to the DAC. The Sony desktop software for example has an EQ function, but it can also operate in _bit-perfect_ mode.


JerryHead said:


> Ah, okay, thanks.  Then for optimal SQ, I would think the best thing to do is to enable this setting on the storage device, and then turn the volume all the way up on that device, and proceed to adjust to the desired volume level on the TA?


If possible, I would simply disable any processing, unless it's something you're expressly looking for (e.g. EQ). I don't know how the volume control is implemented, but a trivial solution would be to scale the value of each sample according to the volume ratio. This would have the same effect as reducing the bit-depth of the original data: remove one bit every time you reduce the volume by half. Not a good idea in my opinion.


----------



## Lookout57

Redcarmoose said:


> It’s a slow and confusing process. Even the few experts I’ve asked were not able to explain why. But my prior process was a Rega Planet which even though old was and kinda is still regarded as a good digital transport. Obviously after getting the 1Z/1A Cradle and AQCarbon I had a baseline of understood sound. So out of curiosity going Coaxial from the Rega with a 16bit/44.1 Redbook CD playing; I thought would be grand and at least as good? Surprisingly not? Not as loud, not as good as soundstage and not as clear and dynamic sounding. Asking member https://www.head-fi.org/members/whitigir.378966/ why the digital from my CD player was not as good as the Walkman, he couldn’t really explain.
> 
> And I don’t want to hand you a quest searching for a red herring but in my experience the 1A/1Z are a special source for the TA. I simply don’t know why but use my ears. Also the Walkmans don’t really work for you as you want streaming.
> 
> ...


I have a Rega Saturn CD player and found that using coax to my Benchmark DAC sounded better than using optical. In both cases using quality after market cables.

The reason I think there is a difference is think of what is happening. The CD is an optical source, the laser in the player reads the bits and converts it to an electrical signal. If you are using the optical output it needs to convert the electrical signal back to optical. I think it's this reconversion that is introducing changes to the sound. If you go coax you are eliminating this conversion. Also coax supports higher bits rates than optical, for example on the TA optical is only up to 96 kHz while coax supports up to 192 kHz.


----------



## JerryHead

I just read this on the Sony product page.  What does it mean exactly?  They're not referring to the internal "components" of the TA varying by country/region, are they?  They must be talking about included accessories, no?
TA-ZH1ES
Premium Headphone Amplifier with D.A. Hybrid Amplifier Circuit / Included components may vary by country or region of purchase: RMT-AA250U


----------



## Umwelt (Jun 6, 2020)

Guys, it's all the same stream of 1s and 0s. What would matter is if there is any processing being applied on the source or the output (meaning the data is modified or its reproduction method is modified). In other words, the same data will sound the same regardless of the read method or transmission method (assuming it is compatible with the data format of course).
-This is all assuming the data stays digital until the final digital-to-analog conversion for delivery to the phones. Any digital/analog conversion prior to that can introduce variations.


----------



## Lookout57

Umwelt said:


> Guys, it's all the same stream of 1s and 0s. What would matter is if there is any processing being applied on the source or the output (meaning the data is modified or its reproduction method is modified). In other words, the same data will sound the same regardless of the read method or transmission method (assuming it is compatible with the data format of course).
> -This is all assuming the data stays digital until the final digital-to-analog conversion for delivery to the phones. Any digital/analog conversion prior to that can introduce variations.


In the data conversion if there are any differences in the clock signal you will introduce jitter which can be heard.


----------



## candlejack

Lookout57 said:


> The reason I think there is a difference is think of what is happening. The CD is an optical source, the laser in the player reads the bits and converts it to an electrical signal. If you are using the optical output it needs to convert the electrical signal back to optical. I think it's this reconversion that is introducing changes to the sound. If you go coax you are eliminating this conversion.


This is not correct. The digital data on the CD is read (I don't know the exact method, but it doesn't matter) into binary data in computer storage (RAM, HDD, etc.). From there a dedicated microcontroller can be used to send it to different computers (again, the method doesn't matter). The only requirements for these components is that the data integrity is maintained and that some performance metric is met (e.g. speed). The advantage of digital data is that you can copy it (or convert it to use your term) as many times as you like without any losses.


JerryHead said:


> I just read this on the Sony product page.  What does it mean exactly?  They're not referring to the internal "components" of the TA varying by country/region, are they?  They must be talking about included accessories, no?
> TA-ZH1ES
> Premium Headphone Amplifier with D.A. Hybrid Amplifier Circuit / Included components may vary by country or region of purchase: RMT-AA250U


It might refer to the power cable or to the power supply unit in the amplifier that need to be compatible with a certain country's power network.


Lookout57 said:


> In the data conversion if there are any differences in the clock signal you will introduce jitter which can be heard.


That might be true in the case of Analog <-> Digital conversion, but errors in digital communications require the jitter to be above a certain threshold and have the benefit of being easily detectable by the equipment responsible for the communication.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> At home i have my desk right next to my gf and even the Z1R's turned up drive her crazy  It's become a priority since i work exclusively from home now.This is why i was fine with the Mojo for 2 years.But things might change if i have to go back to the office.I almost never listened to music at home before since i was gaming all the time. Now since i got the TA i'd rather listen to it. This is why i'm hesitant to pull the trigger on a Dave for Home.Plus i'm kind of sick of lugging the Z1r around even if i do drive to work .So i might want to get a more portable headphone/in ear to use with the Mojo and leave the Z1r at home.I kinda have trouble with most in ears though. Except Airpods pro which i used at the gym.But from what you've told me the IER Z1R's aren't very comfortable so no idea what i'm gonna do once i go back to the office.
> First world diva problems i know.


I see... Well, how about this crazy idea? Why don't you take the $7k you think the Dave would cost you and use that to relocate your desk sufficiently far from your unaccommodating girlfriend to satisfy her silence needs and use the remaining money to buy a nice open-back headphone, which is bound to result in a much bigger difference/improvement in sound quality than the Dave could ever provide you?


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> I see... Well, how about this crazy idea? Why don't you take the $7k you think the Dave would cost you and use that to relocate your desk sufficiently far from your unaccommodating girlfriend to satisfy her silence needs and use the remaining money to buy a nice open-back headphone, which is bound to result in a much bigger difference/improvement in sound quality than the Dave could ever provide you?


We have 2 massive desks that we custom made in an L shape so...that would require a new apartment ,which is in the plan (and one of the reasons i'm not jumping at the chance to get the Dave just now).But even then she will sit near me (we even work at the same company ,second one in a row ). And i like that.No complaints here.
  I really doubt the Utopia or <insert open headphone here> would be such a huge improvement over the Z1R , with the TA.Even if it would i'd have to either piss her off or sit alone in a room all day.So pass  .
  I was never a fan of open headphones since you need silence and it's pretty fussy.I mostly listen to music while i'm working (coding) and would most likely hear the sound of my very silent but still mechanical keyboard .So i prefer my music isolated from my environment. And i'm way too hyperactive to just sit in a chair with a tablet and listen anyway.
  I'm really agnostic about cables and sources and a lot of the stuff,but you're a straight up atheist.I don't know why you think the headphones are 90% of the sound quality.I do agree that they matter the most,but considering a high enough level of gear i would split the importance 60-40 between the headphones and the dac and (remains to be tested more in depth) source.
    I guess it depends how much you value subtle things like a dead quiet noise floor,better separation,micro details ,etc.
  The Dave is amazing but if i'm gonna wait another year or so to get it i might as well try and listen to some other things that came out since then.Ideally it would be a one box streamer, dac and headphone amp solution like the Gold Note DS-10 (lower price range) or the DCS Bartok (crazy price range).Plus those have the advantage of being able to be updated via software and sometimes hardware.But no dealer for any of these where we're from anyway. Plenty of time to do more research though.
  Maybe Sony will come up with something similar ,they seem to be serious about  getting back into hi-fi,did you see the 60k statement speakers ?


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> But even then she will sit near me (we even work at the same company ,second one in a row ). And i like that.No complaints here.


Oh, so she reads these forums. Nice. 


adrianm said:


> I really doubt the Utopia or <insert open headphone here> would be such a huge improvement over the Z1R , with the TA.Even if it would i'd have to either piss her off or sit alone in a room all day.So pass .


It will certainly make a much bigger difference (whether it's also an improvement is a personal matter, of course) than the Dave will compared to the TA. 
You know, there's a quote in the music video for MetallicA's One (from the movie "Johnny Has His Gun", I believe) and it goes like this: _"Each man faces death by himself... Alone"_. I think it's the same with listening to music. 


adrianm said:


> I was never a fan of open headphones since you need silence and it's pretty fussy.I mostly listen to music while i'm working (coding) and would most likely hear the sound of my very silent but still mechanical keyboard .So i prefer my music isolated from my environment. And i'm way too hyperactive to just sit in a chair with a tablet and listen anyway.


How much are you able to focus on the music when working? Is it enough to appreciate the subtle differences that you are able to pick up on in carefully set up A/B tests?


adrianm said:


> I'm really agnostic about cables and sources and a lot of the stuff,but you're a straight up atheist.I don't know why you think the headphones are 90% of the sound quality.I do agree that they matter the most,but considering a high enough level of gear i would split the importance 60-40 between the headphones and the dac and (remains to be tested more in depth) source.


Agnostic is to think that nothing *can* be known about the subject. I would say that is a stronger belief than to simply believe something is the way you experience it and can reason about it. 


adrianm said:


> I guess it depends how much you value subtle things like a dead quiet noise floor,better separation,micro details ,etc.


I think I apreciate good music that has been recorded well and played back well. I'm not good with terms like the ones you mentioned (besides noise, of course), I don't really know what micro detail is, and I probably pack separation in with other adjectives in what I call clarity. And yes, I do care about clarity.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Lookout57 said:


> In the data conversion if there are any differences in the clock signal you will introduce jitter which can be heard.



This is the whole agreement and argument theme. There was a USB cable thread that was eventually closed due to insults, that actually covered a lot of ground on the subject. But this is the area of why there are differences . IMO


adrianm said:


> We have 2 massive desks that we custom made in an L shape so...that would require a new apartment ,which is in the plan (and one of the reasons i'm not jumping at the chance to get the Dave just now).But even then she will sit near me (we even work at the same company ,second one in a row ). And i like that.No complaints here.
> I really doubt the Utopia or <insert open headphone here> would be such a huge improvement over the Z1R , with the TA.Even if it would i'd have to either piss her off or sit alone in a room all day.So pass  .
> I was never a fan of open headphones since you need silence and it's pretty fussy.I mostly listen to music while i'm working (coding) and would most likely hear the sound of my very silent but still mechanical keyboard .So i prefer my music isolated from my environment. And i'm way too hyperactive to just sit in a chair with a tablet and listen anyway.
> I'm really agnostic about cables and sources and a lot of the stuff,but you're a straight up atheist.I don't know why you think the headphones are 90% of the sound quality.I do agree that they matter the most,but considering a high enough level of gear i would split the importance 60-40 between the headphones and the dac and (remains to be tested more in depth) source.
> ...



The other thing to try is the DMP-Z1, though again batteries?


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> The other thing to try is the DMP-Z1, though again batteries?


_Nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky..._


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Oh, so she reads these forums. Nice.
> 
> It will certainly make a much bigger difference (whether it's also an improvement is a personal matter, of course) than the Dave will compared to the TA.
> You know, there's a quote in the music video for MetallicA's One (from the movie "Johnny Has His Gun", I believe) and it goes like this: _"Each man faces death by himself... Alone"_. I think it's the same with listening to music.
> ...


Well in that case..that's what Dave has,insane clarity, i think it's due to the extremely low noise floor (The designer says so himself) which allows micro details to be heard and as a result it sounds more "analogue " as some people call it,more realistic voices,etc.Seeing as how through the mixing process itself noise is added to music (dithering) it's kinda ironic spending this much money to get rid of noise though


----------



## adrianm

Redcarmoose said:


> This is the whole agreement and argument theme. There was a USB cable thread that was eventually closed due to insults, that actually covered a lot of ground on the subject. But this is the area of why there are differences . IMO
> 
> 
> The other thing to try is the DMP-Z1, though again batteries?


I don't get the DMP-Z1.Who wants to lug around 3 kg and 8 grand every day.
And i'm sure that battery replacmenet will be 500$ or so every few years even if you have a place where you could have it done.So might be more expensive in the long run.
    I specifically went there and read comparions with other gear.every time it was "THE DMP-Z1 IS A UNIQUE PRODUCT,A CLASS OF ITS OWN,BLA BLA ".
And i said " OK GUYS,IT'S UNIQUE,I KNOW,BUT HOW DOES IT SOUND COMPARED TO THE DAVE ".
guess what reply i got :
"the DMP-z1 is the only product in it's category,you can't compare it " . Mind ****.
Plus still no streaming AFAIK.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 6, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Seems we have different definitions for _inventor_ and I'm afraid yours happens to be incorrect.
> 
> It appears that particular source is not simply storing the files. There's no technical reason why a source could not apply processing to the digital data before sending it to the DAC. The Sony desktop software for example has an EQ function, but it can also operate in _bit-perfect_ mode.
> 
> If possible, I would simply disable any processing, unless it's something you're expressly looking for (e.g. EQ). I don't know how the volume control is implemented, but a trivial solution would be to scale the value of each sample according to the volume ratio. This would have the same effect as reducing the bit-depth of the original data: remove one bit every time you reduce the volume by half. Not a good idea in my opinion.



1) He has invented modifications.

2) Something like WASAPI in Foobar is another example of digital being corrected before the DAC.

https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi


3) I remember meeting someone with an incredibly elaborate and expensive two channel speaker rig. At the time I was still a fan of CD players, which I felt offered a “more pure” noiseless better example as a source to a DAC. But he had found Amerra and was totally happy. So even though I didn’t like USB at the time, his solution was well respected in my eyes. And most of all I respected his completion and happiness.

http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/

In a way I think audiophildom is connected with age; meaning when your young your fighting the world. Everything and every concept gets held onto tightly. After getting older people start to let go. He was letting go and even though had been an audiophile his whole life.......now he tended to accept and not question the place he was at.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Well in that case..that's what Dave has,insane clarity, i think it's due to the extremely low noise floor (The designer says so himself) which allows micro details to be heard and as a result it sounds more "analogue " as some people call it,more realistic voices,etc.Seeing as how through the mixing process itself noise is added to music (dithering) it's kinda ironic spending this much money to get rid of noise though


Do you hear any noise on the TA? Oh, and btw, the TA actually has an analogue option. Have you tried it?


adrianm said:


> I don't get the DMP-Z1. Who wants to lug around 3 kg and 8 grand every day.
> And i'm sure that battery replacmenet will be 500$ or so every few years even if you have a place where you could have it done.So might be more expensive in the long run.
> I specifically went there and read comparions with other gear.every time it was "THE DMP-Z1 IS A UNIQUE PRODUCT,A CLASS OF ITS OWN,BLA BLA ".
> And i said " OK GUYS,IT'S UNIQUE,I KNOW,BUT HOW DOES IT SOUND COMPARED TO THE DAVE ".
> ...


I also don't get it: you complain about the size of the DMP, but the Dave you're fine with?! If the battery dies on the DMP, just keep it plugged in, like you would the Dave. 
There's only one person I know who I would trust to give an honest account of the DMP, and that's @Damz87.


Redcarmoose said:


> He has invented modifications.


Rather, he has modified inventions.  That's a tinkerer, not an inventor. But I'm willing to drop this if you will.


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> Rather, he has modified inventions.  That's a tinkerer, not an inventor. But I'm willing to drop this if you will.


I’m going with Redcarmoose on this one.  Read the definition of inventor.  Trust me, he is WAY beyond tinkering!


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Do you hear any noise on the TA? Oh, and btw, the TA actually has an analogue option. Have you tried it?
> 
> I also don't get it: you complain about the size of the DMP, but the Dave you're fine with?! If the battery dies on the DMP, just keep it plugged in, like you would the Dave.
> There's only one person I know who I would trust to give an honest account of the DMP, and that's @Damz87.
> ...


I complain about being touted as "portable " .About as much as the Dave .purely for comparison's sake.Not married to Dave yet ,i just liked it a lot.I don't mean actual noise you can hear,i mean a lower noise floor = more "clarity "


----------



## candlejack (Jun 6, 2020)

Gadget67 said:


> I’m going with Redcarmoose on this one.  Read the definition of inventor.  Trust me, he is WAY beyond tinkering!


Looks to me like you're the one who didn't bother reading the definition.

_inventor_
noun
Someone who has invented something or whose job is to invent things

_invent_
verb
To design and/or create something that has never been made before


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> I complain about being touted as "portable".


Oh yeah, that's more than fair.


adrianm said:


> I don't mean actual noise you can hear, I mean a lower noise floor = more "clarity".


If you play a passage of dead silence, do you hear any noise? If not, then what are we talking about here? Maybe you mean distortion.


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> _inventor_
> noun
> Someone who has invented something or whose job is to invent things
> 
> ...


An *inventor* is a person who creates or discovers a new method, form, device or other useful means that becomes known as an invention.


----------



## candlejack

Gadget67 said:


> An *inventor* is a person who creates or discovers a new method, form, device or other useful means that becomes known as an invention.


You're really gonna argue this? You quote wikipedia, hardly an authority on anything. My quote was from an actual dictionary (Cambridge). Then even if I accept the wiki definition, what exactly has this inventor done that was *new*. What is his invention?


----------



## Lookout57

Gadget67 said:


> I’m going with Redcarmoose on this one.  Read the definition of inventor.  Trust me, he is WAY beyond tinkering!


He's not an inventor, based on the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition: "to produce (something, such as a useful device or process) for the first time through the use of the imagination or of ingenious thinking and experiment".

The best word to describe him is that he's a hacker based on the origins of the word hacking. "Interestingly, the term “hack” did not originate from computers. Rather, it originated with MIT’s Tech Model Railroad Club way back in 1961 when club members hacked their high-tech train sets in order to modify their functions.". So the original meaning is someone who makes something do or work differently than originally intended. That's what he did when he modified the hardware and/or software to produce a sound signature different than what was originally designed and delivered by the manufacturers.

There are different levels of hackers. So he would be classified an advanced hacker based on what he's done as they are much more extensive modifications to the original design and/or components. If you don't like the word since it's been misappropriated to describe malicious activities, call him a modder.

.


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> You're really gonna argue this? You quote wikipedia, hardly an authority on anything. My quote was from an actual dictionary (Cambridge). Then even if I accept the wiki definition, what exactly has this inventor done that was *new*. What is his invention?


I Think you are being unduly narrow and defensive.  Encyclopaedia Britannica has a more expansive definition:

“Inventor, a person who brings ideas or objects together in a novel way to create an invention, something that did not exist before.”  It goes on to say:
“a large part of inventors’ efforts throughout history have been devoted not to the creation of something new but to the improvement and development of existing devices—traditionally the domain of the engineer. Furthermore, invention and scientific discovery are frequently so closely intertwined that it is difficult to draw any clear-cut distinction between them.“

Here is a link to Britannica:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/inventor


----------



## Lookout57

Gadget67 said:


> I Think you are being unduly narrow and defensive.  Encyclopaedia Britannica has a more expansive definition:
> 
> “Inventor, a person who brings ideas or objects together in a novel way to create an invention, something that did not exist before.”  It goes on to say:
> “a large part of inventors’ efforts throughout history have been devoted not to the creation of something new but to the improvement and development of existing devices—traditionally the domain of the engineer. Furthermore, invention and scientific discovery are frequently so closely intertwined that it is difficult to draw any clear-cut distinction between them.“
> ...


The best test of an invention is there enough differences between the original design and function and the new version to warrant it be called a new invention? 

Most inventors patent their design or concept to protect their intellectual property. Changing the wiring or numbers and types of capacitors is not inventing. It's hacking/modding/tinkering, whatever you want to call it.

Time to move on and get back to the TA.


----------



## Gadget67

Lookout57 said:


> The invention is there enough differences between the original design and function and the new version to warrant it be called a new invention?
> 
> Most inventors patent their design or concept to protect their intellectual property. Changing the wiring or numbers and types of capacitors is not inventing. It's hacking/modding/tinkering, whatever you want to call it.
> 
> Time to move on and get back to the TA.


I want to call it inventing.  Let’s both declare victory and get back to the TA.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> f you play a passage of dead silence, do you hear any noise? If not, then what are we talking about here? Maybe you mean distortion.


I was actually reffering to this,which some people here ,like you, reject as scientific:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/more-rob-wattage.10882/

Not an engineer but i do place some stock in what the designer of a world class product has to say.Maybe it is all bs and he doesn’t want to explain his competitive advantage away,idk.Not qualified to comment on that,just took it in good faith when i first read it years ago


----------



## adrianm

adrianm said:


> I was actually reffering to this,which some people here ,like you, reject as scientific:
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/more-rob-wattage.10882/
> 
> Not an engineer but i do place some stock in what the designer of a world class product has to say.Maybe it is all bs and he doesn’t want to explain his competitive advantage away,idk.Not qualified to comment on that,just took it in good faith when i first read it years ago


Actually you’re right,he does claim distorsion caused ty the noise floor modulation at every step


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Rather, he has modified inventions.  That's a tinkerer, not an inventor. But I'm willing to drop this if you will.


Well if i could chime in before you're done, it's one thing tinkering like a car enthusiast on weekends,another building an engine from scratch.Could most of them do it? Of course not,but some can.
  From a programming point of view i find it's sometimes more difficult to  improve upon existing applications than it would be to start over from scratch.Since it requires you to understand exactly what's happening in the application before you start messing around.Are you less of a programmer when improving upon existing solutions than developing software from scratch? I'm sure those guys only developing new solutions think so.Are there crappy developers on both sides? Ofc. Not every wheel needs to be reinvented though and it depends on the complexity of the problem.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> I was actually reffering to this,which some people here ,like you, reject as scientific:
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/more-rob-wattage.10882/
> 
> Not an engineer but i do place some stock in what the designer of a world class product has to say.Maybe it is all bs and he doesn’t want to explain his competitive advantage away,idk.Not qualified to comment on that,just took it in good faith when i first read it years ago


I do not reject the importance of the power supply in an electronic device (if that is what you meant). I do however believe that there are many devices that are over-engineered when it comes to audiophile equipment, i.e. engineered beyond the point of usefulness for their given application, i.e. beyond the audible threshold. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with having products like this. Excellence is a worthy pursuit in itself. I happen to wear a watch that is water resistant to 1200 m. Is that sort of water resistance needed in any application that I (or any other user for that matter) could ever engage in? Certainly not. It's not the reason why I bought the watch, but it's cool that it is there. I don't understand electronics well enough to judge if the Dave is a case of excellent engineering or excellent marketing or both, but let's say that it is engineered at the bleeding edge of current technology. I can see the appeal in owning such a device. However, claiming that the audible improvement compared to other DAC/Amps is remarkable might be as ridiculous as me saying I make use of the 1200 m water resistance of my watch.


adrianm said:


> Well if i could chime in before you're done, it's one thing tinkering like a car enthusiast on weekends,another building an engine from scratch.Could most of them do it? Of course not,but some can.


A fair point. But if you know the subject of the conversation, you know he hasn't built anything from scratch (at least not according to those who are familiar with his body of work). 

I suspect the reason for this prolonged debate is that people who like and support his think that I'm trying to downplay his achievements. I'm not. Taking apart the things he has and then putting them back together with minimal damage (apart from the "damage" he meant to do - i.e. component substitutions/modifications) is not easy and certainly not something I would be able to do. However, this also doesn't make him an expert on the technology used in those devices, let alone an inventor.


----------



## adrianm (Jun 7, 2020)

candlejack said:


> I do not reject the importance of the power supply in an electronic device (if that is what you meant). I do however believe that there are many devices that are over-engineered when it comes to audiophile equipment, i.e. engineered beyond the point of usefulness for their given application, i.e. beyond the audible threshold.


Here the Chord  engineers seems to agree with your opinion ,hence the decision to add a run of the mill switching power supply and "over-engineer " the Dac so that it actually sounds good without PS upgrades like a lot of the higher end,more expensive brands.Look at the Naim ND555,13k pounds for a dac and 7k for a separate power supply (none included).And they recommend adding a second (7k) power supply for "optimal performance ".That seems like the type of over-engineering you mean.Even if it does in fact sound slightly better with 14k worth of custom PSU's. There are smarter ways to do it.And a lot of people still seem to prefer the Dave.You still need a separate streamer but since it supposedly sounds almost as good from a laptop you can save a lot there (to my ears the streamer did make a tiny bit of a difference,but price-performance wise it was a joke


candlejack said:


> A fair point. But if you know the subject of the conversation, you know he hasn't built anything from scratch (at least not according to those who are familiar with his body of work).


I don't.But the owner of ZMF headphones started by modding Fostex hp's and now people seem to really like his own headphones.Not saying this is the case here, was just arguing a general point.
).


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> I happen to wear a watch that is water resistant to 1200 m


Which watch is that?  Omega Ploprof?


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> Which watch is that?  Omega Ploprof?


Perhaps it’s this.  Good taste if it is!


----------



## adrianm

Nah i knew the deepsea is 4000m-ish


----------



## adrianm

Damz87 said:


> Honestly the TA sounds fairly close to the DMP in my opinion. The TA has a slightly smoother/mellow sound and narrower soundstage. The DMP also has a blacker background and the DSD remastering sounds more natural. But other than that, they are quite similar sounding.
> 
> Unless you specifically need a transportable dac/amp player, the DMP isn’t worth the 3x price difference.


Have you heard the Chord Dave  by any chance ? I'm curious about a comparison that isn't "different categories "


----------



## Damz87

adrianm said:


> Have you heard the Chord Dave  by any chance ? I'm curious about a comparison that isn't "different categories "



I haven’t, unfortunately. But, I like the DMP for it’s form factor more than anything else. If the TA could be used portably then that would be all I’d need.


----------



## adrianm

Damz87 said:


> I haven’t, unfortunately. But, I like the DMP for it’s form factor more than anything else. If the TA could be used portably then that would be all I’d need.


I can imagine, do you have any other desktop dac?


----------



## Gadget67

Damz87 said:


> Honestly the TA sounds fairly close to the DMP in my opinion. The TA has a slightly smoother/mellow sound and narrower soundstage. The DMP also has a blacker background and the DSD remastering sounds more natural. But other than that, they are quite similar sounding.
> 
> Unless you specifically need a transportable dac/amp player, the DMP isn’t worth the 3x price difference.


The person I purchased my TA and WM1Z from sold them to fund a DMP.  I’ll have to follow up with him to see what he thinks.


----------



## Damz87

adrianm said:


> I can imagine, do you have any other desktop dac?



No, just the TA & DMP. I’m more of an IEM listener so these two are perfect for my needs. They both sound great with the IER-Z1R.


----------



## Damz87

Gadget67 said:


> The person I purchased my TA and WM1Z from sold them to fund a DMP.  I’ll have to follow up with him to see what he thinks.


The DMP is definitely still a step up from both the TA & 1Z. But it comes at a much larger step up in cost.


----------



## Gadget67

Damz87 said:


> The DMP is definitely still a step up from both the TA & 1Z. But it comes at a much larger step up in cost.


Oh, I’d definitely like one but I’m leery of “all in one” devices.  I’d rather replace or update an aging DAP, amp or DAC Separately and the cost is a bit high.  Of course none of these devices are cheap so it’s all relative!  The TA is also a very flexible device and obviously the WM1Z is easy to carry around.  I most certainly don’t want to audition a DMP because then I’ll probably want one...


----------



## adrianm

Damz87 said:


> The DMP is definitely still a step up from both the TA & 1Z. But it comes at a much larger step up in cost.


Same story with the Dave,i auditioned it a few days ago against my TA.Biggest step up i've heard up untill now .I imagine the DMP and TA tonalities are close to each other.Someone on youtube said the DMP-Z1 has even more bass .Is that true? Feels to me the TA with the MDR Z1R has plenty already.
   Too bad i have nowhere to listen to the DMP.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Which watch is that?  Omega Ploprof?


A connoisseur, I am impressed. 





Gadget67 said:


> Perhaps it’s this.  Good taste if it is!


Great watch as well, but to keep with the Omega vs Rolex hate stereotype, allow me to draw attention to the end links and lugs.


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> A connoisseur, I am impressed.
> 
> 
> 
> Great watch as well, but to keep with the Omega vs Rolex hate stereotype, allow me to draw attention to the end links and lugs.


I don’t hate Omega...


----------



## candlejack

Gadget67 said:


> I don’t hate Omega...


Beautiful collection! I didn't realize it was your wrist in the Deepsea shot. Makes the "good taste" comment a bit awkward.


----------



## Gadget67

Damz87 said:


> I haven’t, unfortunately. But, I like the DMP for it’s form factor more than anything else. If the TA could be used portably then that would be all I’d need.


The TA is (was) portable enough for in home use; Just unplug and move to a different listening location.  Now I’ve got my Phonitor 2 hooked up to it and I use the TA as a DAC so it’s stationary until I purchase another DAC for the Phonitor.  The DMP seems ideal for moving between home and work but a bit large for just walking around.  I’d really love to listen to one in person, but its best for my wallet if I don’t!


----------



## Lookout57

Gadget67 said:


> I don’t hate Omega...









Those are two of my Omega's.


----------



## adrianm

Wow,really? Screw you guys.Here i was about to blow my Submariner budget on a Dave and this suddenly turns into a watch forum


----------



## darmccombs (Jun 7, 2020)

Well, I have a TA-ZH1E on the way to me.  I plan to use it with my IER-Z1R and/or MDR-Z1R.  I have a lot to learn, so I am reading this thread and the owners manual in preparation.  Currently I have an RME ADI-2 which has an EQ built in.  I don't think the TA does, but the TA has some features the RME doesn't.

Do you have any general setup tips?  I do have some upgraded power cords that  will try with the TA.

Do you have any tips for the IER-Z1r?
   - Which Gain setting (High/Low) I should use?
   - Is there a big advantage to using a balanced cable with the IER?

Do you have any tips for the MDR-Z1R? and the IER?
   - Which Gain setting (High/Low) I should use?
   - Is there a big advantage to using a balanced cable with the MDR?  I am guessing Yes, in the case of the MDR.

Well, any tips you have for a TA noobie, would be appreciated...


----------



## candlejack

Lookout57 said:


> Those are two of my Omega's.


The Speedyorite really is something else. Congrats!


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Wow, really? Screw you guys.


Well appropriate is what I say.


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> Wow,really? Screw you guys.Here i was about to blow my Submariner budget on a Dave and this suddenly turns into a watch forum


Here is the Submariner you need...after this we should move to the watch thread.  This is seriously mesmerizing and very subtle in person; photos don’t do it justice.  Get a Hulk, not a Dave!


----------



## JerryHead

Anyone listen to the Focal Clears out of the TA? I ordered a refurb pair and they're on their way.  this Amazon reviewer (see about half way down) says the Clears are "not nice" with it. I wonder why?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-TA-ZH...ne-Amplifier-black/product-reviews/B01LHGLAQ8


----------



## nc8000

Gadget67 said:


> Here is the Submariner you need...after this we should move to the watch thread.  This is seriously mesmerizing and very subtle in person; photos don’t do it justice.  Get a Hulk, not a Dave!



I’ve just gone with a humble Citizen titanium chronograph that I really like


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> A connoisseur, I am impressed.


Well the wr is pretty specific 


darmccombs said:


> Well, I have a TA-ZH1E on the way to me.  I plan to use it with my IER-Z1R and/or MDR-Z1R.  I have a lot to learn, so I am reading this thread and the owners manual in preparation.  Currently I have an RME ADI-2 which has an EQ built in.  I don't think the TA does, but the TA has some features the RME doesn't.
> 
> Do you have any general setup tips?
> 
> ...


I'm sorry sir,you were redirected to the Watch forum.


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> Here is the Submariner you need...after this we should move to the watch thread.  This is seriously mesmerizing and very subtle in person; photos don’t do it justice.  Get a Hulk, not a Dave!


I have a friend who works at Rolex and he actually got me one about 2 years ago,but i tried it on and ,even though the effect was indeed awesome,i hate green and couldn't get over that.I'm also not a fan of the cyclops.So i turned it down and said i'd wait for a Daytona...and still waiting...i know the "list " is huge,but at least here..there's no list,just big spenders and bribes basically.
    I figured i'd get the 114060 sub for my 30th b-day coming up in a couple of months but Covid came and asking them to take my money or having to buy 2-3 other watches just to get the one i want is kinda insulting.I was also hoping for at least a new movement in the 114060 this year,or even a new Sub... but that probably won't happen until 2023 (70th anniversary of the sub).Plus i'm pretty sure i'd get a lot of negative attention at work from some people (when i do go back).People are judgemental af.


----------



## darmccombs

adrianm said:


> I'm sorry sir,you were redirected to the Watch forum.


No kidding.  I shoulda bought a watch last night, instead of a worthless TA.  What was I thinking?


----------



## Umwelt

darmccombs said:


> Well, I have a TA-ZH1E on the way to me.  I plan to use it with my IER-Z1R and/or MDR-Z1R.  I have a lot to learn, so I am reading this thread and the owners manual in preparation.  Currently I have an RME ADI-2 which has an EQ built in.  I don't think the TA does, but the TA has some features the RME doesn't.
> 
> Do you have any general setup tips?  I do have some upgraded power cords that  will try with the TA.
> 
> ...



Quoting for next page now that the watch show-off may be over (hopefully). As a soon-to-be-owner I'm also interested to hear from vet owners about the TA.

I'm guessing that both the IER and MDR will work with the low Gain setting. They're both able to be driven by even a phone or laptop (even though the results will not be optimal). 

From the TA's specs:
*OUTPUT POWER*​Balanced: 1,200 mW + 1,200 mW (32 ohms 1 kHz 1%)​Unbalanced: 300 mW + 300 mW (32 ohms 1 kHz 1%)​
The balanced output has quite a bit more juice, so I'd use the balanced output whenever possible for both.


----------



## Lookout57

Umwelt said:


> Quoting for next page now that the watch show-off may be over (hopefully). As a soon-to-be-owner I'm also interested to hear from vet owners about the TA.
> 
> I'm guessing that both the IER and MDR will work with the low Gain setting. They're both able to be driven by even a phone or laptop (even though the results will not be optimal).
> 
> ...


I run my TA in low gain balanced mode with the MDR-Z1R and LCD-X.


----------



## Gadget67

Umwelt said:


> Quoting for next page now that the watch show-off may be over (hopefully). As a soon-to-be-owner I'm also interested to hear from vet owners about the TA.
> 
> I'm guessing that both the IER and MDR will work with the low Gain setting. They're both able to be driven by even a phone or laptop (even though the results will not be optimal).
> 
> ...


Well, the whole watch thing did get off the rails.

i agree with all you’ve said; I have both the IER and MDR and both work perfectly using the low gain setting.  I also use balanced output for both.  My WM1Z can Also drive the MDR just fine.  I tend to avoid the audio enhancement features but I would encourage experimenting with them.


----------



## JerryHead

Is there really that much of a difference between the AudioQuest Carbon USB B to C cable and the AudioQuest Cinnamon USB B to C cable?  there's a $110 difference between the two for the length I need (5').


----------



## JerryHead

A shout of thanks to those who helped me come to the conclusion that to own the 1A and the TA was redundant (if no other use for the 1A was intended).  I thought about it long and hard and it was a very difficult decision, but I'm sending back the 1A tomorrow as I'm still within the return period.  I will miss her dearly, but the fact is, I anticipated putting her in a drawer and only infrequently taking her out to listen with my 846s.  90% of my listening will be from the TA with my Android DAP as the source.  I just couldn't justify keeping both.  Maybe one day though.


----------



## zephyrstar

darmccombs said:


> Well, I have a TA-ZH1E on the way to me.  I plan to use it with my IER-Z1R and/or MDR-Z1R.  I have a lot to learn, so I am reading this thread and the owners manual in preparation.  Currently I have an RME ADI-2 which has an EQ built in.  I don't think the TA does, but the TA has some features the RME doesn't.
> 
> Do you have any general setup tips?  I do have some upgraded power cords that  will try with the TA.
> 
> ...


I use mine on low gain with my IER and it is pure bliss! i have noticed that I prefer the sound using the 4.4 balanced output over the 3.5mm. Sounds a little cleaner with better separation and punch to me.


----------



## JerryHead

zephyrstar said:


> I use mine on low gain with my IER and it is pure bliss! i have noticed that I prefer the sound using the 4.4 balanced output over the 3.5mm. Sounds a little cleaner with better separation and punch to me.


But, do you prefer the 4.4 over the XLR4?


----------



## Redcarmoose

JerryHead said:


> A shout of thanks to those who helped me come to the conclusion that to own the 1A and the TA was redundant (if no other use for the 1A was intended).  I thought about it long and hard and it was a very difficult decision, but I'm sending back the 1A tomorrow as I'm still within the return period.  I will miss her dearly, but the fact is, I anticipated putting her in a drawer and only infrequently taking her out to listen with my 846s.  90% of my listening will be from the TA with my Android DAP as the source.  I just couldn't justify keeping both.  Maybe one day though.



To answer your question l’ve only used drug store USB cables before getting the Carbon. I have the 5 foot one.

It’s a great process you did determining what you needed and what would be redundant. I’m glad you like the TA. Cheers!


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> Is there really that much of a difference between the AudioQuest Carbon USB B to C cable and the AudioQuest Cinnamon USB B to C cable?  there's a $110 difference between the two for the length I need (5').


I was in your situation,needing 2m for the cable,so being a usb skeptic i've decided to get a Chord C-line usb,3m long,half the price of the Carbon.Still not cheap but I did notice a slight improvement, but i'm not sure i could be a/b'd on it vs the cheap usb cable and it's not long enough to test now that i've moved it.
   I think there's a minimum spec that cables need to have to sound good (impedance,thickness) and decent shielding.After that it's all placebo.Or i could see a different sound in something like the Chord Shawline which separates the data and the power delivery and would lower jitter .
  I do also have an Igalvanic 3.0 on the way and plan to a/b that with both usb cables and an AQ carbon or higher.I also expect to return the Igalvanic and other potential cables when they don't make much of a difference .
   More on cables here :
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/do-usb-audio-cables-make-a-difference.1887/


----------



## zephyrstar

JerryHead said:


> But, do you prefer the 4.4 over the XLR4?


I can't compare directly, I don't have a way to connect my IER to the XLR4.


----------



## Umwelt

JerryHead said:


> But, do you prefer the 4.4 over the XLR4?



Both should sound identical since all balanced connections get the same power (according to the specs published by Sony at least).


----------



## JerryHead

adrianm said:


> I was in your situation,needing 2m for the cable,so being a usb skeptic i've decided to get a Chord C-line usb,3m long,half the price of the Carbon.Still not cheap but I did notice a slight improvement, but i'm not sure i could be a/b'd on it vs the cheap usb cable and it's not long enough to test now that i've moved it.
> I think there's a minimum spec that cables need to have to sound good (impedance,thickness) and decent shielding.After that it's all placebo.Or i could see a different sound in something like the Chord Shawline which separates the data and the power delivery and would lower jitter .
> I do also have an Igalvanic 3.0 on the way and plan to a/b that with both usb cables and an AQ carbon or higher.I also expect to return the Igalvanic and other potential cables when they don't make much of a difference .
> More on cables here :
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/do-usb-audio-cables-make-a-difference.1887/


oh, gee, then, maybe I should gone for a shorter cable.  perhaps the 1.5 meter (5') length will work against me with regards to ultimate SQ?


----------



## nc8000

This is what I use between the TA and the Auralic. Custom made by a friend of mine 20 cm long


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> oh, gee, then, maybe I should gone for a shorter cable.  perhaps the 1.5 meter (5') length will work against me with regards to ultimate SQ?


Unless it's really cheap and really long i wouldn't expect a difference.Honestly i can only say one sure thing i've learned about usb cables that affects sound quality :
   Ever since i've heard the Dave 2 days ago i've kinda started hating the TA (this was also the case when i got it for the first few days,and i attributed it to "burn in ").
I thought this was just my brain fcking with me and making me biased.But i tried the same thing i did last time : i untangled the usb cable from the other cables (it was semi wrapped around the power chord and a buch of others behind my pc. 
     Both are shielded (Isotek premier and Chord C-line) but i think the electrical current was causing distorsion. 
  I can't imagine if i was biased against the TA it would have resolved in the 30 seconds it took to do this ,and i played all the songs all over again and it all sounded a lot more clear.Or maybe this is also bias.Sure as hell makes more sense than magical usb cable geometry though.And the fact that electrical currents cause distorsion in data transfer is a proven fact.


----------



## JerryHead

adrianm said:


> Unless it's really cheap and really long i wouldn't expect a difference.Honestly i can only say one sure thing i've learned about usb cables that affects sound quality :
> Ever since i've heard the Dave 2 days ago i've kinda started hating the TA (this was also the case when i got it for the first few days,and i attributed it to "burn in ").
> I thought this was just my brain fcking with me and making me biased.But i tried the same thing i did last time : i untangled the usb cable from the other cables (it was semi wrapped around the power chord and a buch of others behind my pc.
> Both are shielded (Isotek premier and Chord C-line) but i think the electrical current was causing distorsion.
> I can't imagine if i was biased against the TA it would have resolved in the 30 seconds it took to do this ,and i played all the songs all over again and it all sounded a lot more clear.Or maybe this is also bias.Sure as hell makes more sense than magical usb cable geometry though.And the fact that electrical currents cause distorsion in data transfer is a proven fact.


interesting, something to keep in mind.  okay, thanks.


----------



## adrianm

Best thing about this hobby :if you're the tiniest bit  scientifically minded,it makes you question your sanity.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 8, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> oh, gee, then, maybe I should gone for a shorter cable.  perhaps the 1.5 meter (5') length will work against me with regards to ultimate SQ?



I’ve actually read AudioQuest recommend the shortest possible cable for the application, even though they would make more profit from selling a longer cable. They also list EMI as the threat with longer cable runs.

I actually wish I would have gone 2.5 feet and not 5 feet.


----------



## JerryHead

Redcarmoose said:


> I’ve actually read AudioQuest recommend the shortest possible cable for the application, even though they would make more profit from selling a longer cable. They also list EMI as the threat with longer cable runs.
> 
> I actually wish I would have gone 2.5 feet and not 5 feet.


Do you think there's an audible difference between those two lengths with the carbon cable?


----------



## Umwelt (Jun 8, 2020)

For analog signals, the build, quality, and run length of the cable are absolutely critical. For digital signals, however, most factors priced into a cable will amount to snake oil (edit: except for cable length, in some cases).


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 8, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> Do you think there's an audible difference between those two lengths with the carbon cable?



The silliest aspect of audio.......the teeth brushing phenomena.

“You can’t see an improvement but you go through the motions and due diligence anyway.”


----------



## Lookout57

Best practice is to keep all AC cords as far away from all signal cables as the RF and EMI from the AC cables will effect the signal cables.


----------



## adrianm

Lookout57 said:


> Best practice is to keep all AC cords as far away from all signal cables as the RF and EMI from the AC cables will effect the signal cables.


I know,but hard to do since i have a desktop pc and a laptop + other gadgets in the same place as the TA.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> More on cables here :
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/do-usb-audio-cables-make-a-difference.1887/


Thanks for the link. A satisfying read, as you might expect.


JerryHead said:


> Do you think there's an audible difference between those two lengths with the carbon cable?


What do you think, is -125 dB audible?


----------



## JerryHead

candlejack said:


> Thanks for the link. A satisfying read, as you might expect.
> 
> What do you think, is -125 dB audible?


can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but, ultimately, it sounds debatable.


----------



## JerryHead

Anyone come across a soft, rubbery, quality set of plugs for the outputs of the TA that you're not using?


----------



## adrianm (Jun 9, 2020)

candlejack said:


> What do you think, is -125 dB audible?


I know this is ironic,but Rob Watts opinion is that in regards to audio processing ,it is :
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-hugo.702787/page-287#post-10620662
And tbh it mirrors what i've heard adding the mains filter to the TA.So while it's not audible noise ,it does induce distorsion of different magnitudes depending on the noise and music frequencies,something that was also explained in your clips


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> Anyone come across a soft, rubbery, quality set of plugs for the outputs of the TA that you're not using?


Why cover them up? Those are the best part of the TA  make it look gorgeous


----------



## Rob49

JerryHead said:


> can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not,



@candlejack puts the "S" in sarcassim. Comparable with his "watch" a "wind up merchant". ( He should chill out a bit more on his "couch" )


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> I know this is ironic,but Rob Watts opinion is that in regards to audio processing ,it is :
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-hugo.702787/page-287#post-10620662
> And tbh it mirrors what i've heard adding the mains filter to the TA.So while it's not audible noise ,it does induce distorsion of different magnitudes depending on the noise and music frequencies,something that was also explained in your clips


I'm afraid I don't quite follow, but if you're able to make sense of it, that's great. I don't know anything about Rob except that he's associated with Chord, so I can't simply accept the stuff he is saying. Unfortunately, looking closer at the likes of Paul McGowan has not helped with my level of trust of industry experts. 


Rob49 said:


> @candlejack puts the "S" in sarcassim. Comparable with his "watch" a "wind up merchant". ( He should chill out a bit more on his "couch" )


Sarcassim? Sounds like something Aladin would have in a small pouch.  I don't get your second sentence though. I'm not a native English speaker, so maybe that's the reason. 
Back to the 125 dB comment, I was only partially trying to be a smartass (for the sake of humor btw - every show needs a Chandler). My main goal was to point out the magnitude of the difference in the article that had @JerryHead concerned and the fact that he might be able to test it himself. I think it's a lot better than to simply reply: yes, you can definitely hear it or no, you can definitely not hear it. Although, for the record, based on what I've read, it should not be at all audible.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> I'm afraid I don't quite follow, but if you're able to make sense of it, that's great. I don't know anything about Rob except that he's associated with Chord, so I can't simply accept the stuff he is saying. Unfortunately, looking closer at the likes of Paul McGowan has not helped with my level of trust of industry experts.
> 
> Sarcassim? Sounds like something Aladin would have in a small pouch.  I don't get your second sentence though. I'm not a native English speaker, so maybe that's the reason.
> Back to the 125 dB comment, I was only partially trying to be a smartass (for the sake of humor btw - every show needs a Chandler). My main goal was to point out the magnitude of the difference in the article that had @JerryHead concerned and the fact that he might be able to test it himself. I think it's a lot better than to simply reply: yes, you can definitely hear it or no, you can definitely not hear it. Although, for the record, based on what I've read, it should not be at all audible.


He's no Paul McGowan, he wrote the software the Chord Dacs use and also designed a lot of the hardware.Proof is in the pudding if you ask me.
   I agree with you that while the noise isn't audible,what he says is that the frequency fluctuations from dirty power causes distorsion.This is also explained in your video  _Can Audio Fidelity Be Measured?_  .In the part where how Jitter can affect sound quality.Interactions between soundwaves.You have the signal of the music and you add another signal which causes distorsion.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> He's no Paul McGowan, he wrote the software the Chord Dacs use and also designed a lot of the hardware.Proof is in the pudding if you ask me.
> I agree with you that while the noise isn't audible,what he says is that the frequency fluctuations from dirty power causes distorsion.This is also explained in your video  _Can Audio Fidelity Be Measured?_  .In the part where how Jitter can affect sound quality.Interactions between soundwaves.You have the signal of the music and you add another signal which causes distorsion.


Are you talking now about the noisy power in the USB cable?


----------



## adrianm (Jun 9, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Are you talking now about the noisy power in the USB cable?


No,mains power,but i guess this could to a much lesser extent be via transferred usb as well.Hence the Galvanic isolation on the Dave and other high-end products,which make them "more immune " to usb cables.From my point of view it seems this forum and a lot of audiophiles aren't crazy,some cables (data,power,etc) and probably digital sources as well  can and do make a difference in some dacs. But this is mostly because of poor dac design (compared to 10k+ dacs,i guess?) not unicorn tears.And they are ridiculously overpriced for the most part.


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> Sarcassim? Sounds like something Aladin would have in a small pouch.  I don't get your second sentence though. I'm not a native English speaker, so maybe that's the reason.
> Back to the 125 dB comment, I was only partially trying to be a smartass (for the sake of humor btw - every show needs a Chandler). My main goal was to point out the magnitude of the difference in the article that had @JerryHead concerned and the fact that he might be able to test it himself. I think it's a lot better than to simply reply: yes, you can definitely hear it or no, you can definitely not hear it. Although, for the record, based on what I've read, it should not be at all audible.


I think Rob49 is suggesting in a helpful way that you need to dial it back a little.  After our recent exchange about the definition of “inventor“ I have to agree.  You have a lot to contribute but being a bit more circumspect would help


----------



## candlejack

Gadget67 said:


> I think Rob49 is suggesting in a helpful way that you need to dial it back a little.  After our recent exchange about the definition of “inventor“ I have to agree.  You have a lot to contribute but being a bit more circumspect would help


I may or may not agree, but I appreciate the thoughtful manner in which you gave the advice.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> I may or may not agree, but I appreciate the thoughtful manner in which you gave the advice.


"You call this a fight? " WE WERE ON A BREAK! -NO WE WEREN'T!! " 
What happened to you guys?"


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> "You call this a fight? " WE WERE ON A BREAK! -NO WE WEREN'T!! "
> What happened to you guys?"


You better hope we don’t gang up on you...


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> No,mains power,but i guess this could to a much lesser extent be via transferred usb as well.Hence the Galvanic isolation on the Dave and other high-end products,which make them "more immune " to usb cables.From my point of view it seems this forum and a lot of audiophiles aren't crazy,some cables (data,power,etc) and probably digital sources as well  can and do make a difference in some dacs. But this is mostly because of poor dac design (compared to 10k+ dacs,i guess?) not unicorn tears.And they are ridiculously overpriced for the most part.


My journey has been as follows:
- Used IE80 and FiiO X1 for 4-5 years. Then they were stolen.
- Blew my entire budget on a great pair of IEMs (Andromeda) and used them with my Galaxy S8 phone.
- Bought a few app for music, but they were quite noisy (some sad a great UI though)
- Bought the UAPP app and the noise went away. Sound quality was fantastic.
- Despite being happy with the results, I did the "audiophile" thing and started looking to upgrade my source
- Tested many different DAPs (up to SP1000)  at my local dealer. Couldn't really tell any significant differences in sound. Did the smart thing and didn't buy anyting.
- Still bought the ZX300 (that I never tested - my guy doesn't carry Sony) used from the forums. Sounded great (but so did my phone). Never really did an A/B, but I'm sure I would've had a very hard time telling them apart. I did enjoy the physical buttons on the Sony and the fact that I could use my phone now without worrying about the cable.
- Bought an IER-Z1R which really impressed me for how natural and powerful it sounded.
- [a year passes with various occasions in which I tested source gear without ever being impressed]
- A few months ago, simply looking for something "new" I asked for suggestions for something that's gonna improve the sound of the IER-Z1R. Since everyone on these threads is a professional Sony shill (myself included), the TA came up. After some deal hunting, I bought one used on the forum (again, untested). 
- The TA sounds great (but so does the ZX300 and the S8 before it). Tried some fairly relaxed A/B tests and again, not much, if anything, between them.

I wouldn't really mind if the problem was my ears. By that I mean that all the different DAC/Amps sound remarkably different, but unfortunately I don't have the hearing acuity to pick up on it. The problem with believing that is that I feel like I hear so much detail and nuance in the music already, where recording/mixing/mastering make a huge difference to how much I enjoy the music. And even on the equipment side, different headphones usually sound profoundly different. So I can't imagine how much more there could be for me to miss.

Anyway, regardless of whether it's true or not, the belief I hold at the moment is: my hearing is fine and there simply isn't much difference in the amount of clarity and accuracy of audio source gear (unless intentionally colored). However, I'm eagerly waiting for this belief to be challenged by some kind of objective argument. And this the point I wanted to get to. I'm starting to think that the absence of such an argument from those who would be most interested in providing it is proof enough that such an argument cannot be made. 

Imagine you're a DAC/Amp manufacturer and you've just created a remarkable new product that sounds much better than the competition. Wouldn't you want to show the world that your product is better for the use of listening to music? They all brag about the technology they put into the product, how it has more X and less Y than ever before, but yet zero reference is made to audible benefit. It's like trying to sell a car by telling the customer how big the engine is, how many cylinders it has and what they are made of, but not giving the miles per gallon.

This post ended up a lot bigger than intended, so apologies for the verbosity.


----------



## candlejack

Gadget67 said:


> You better hope we don’t gang up on you...


I've been ganged up on before (online). I think I can handle it.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> My journey has been as follows:
> - Used IE80 and FiiO X1 for 4-5 years. Then they were stolen.
> - Blew my entire budget on a great pair of IEMs (Andromeda) and used them with my Galaxy S8 phone.
> - Bought a few app for music, but they were quite noisy (some sad a great UI though)
> ...


You still haven't mentioned what genres of music you're listening to and what quality.I'm assuming it's at least flac.Some guy on the Dave forum was using spotify ) .I don't know about IEM's ,but you're not noticing any difference with the MDR Z1R either?


----------



## candlejack (Jun 9, 2020)

adrianm said:


> You still haven't mentioned what genres of music you're listening to and what quality.I'm assuming it's at least flac.Some guy on the Dave forum was using spotify ) .I don't know about IEM's ,but you're not noticing any difference with the MDR Z1R either?


That's a good point. Yes, I'm all FLAC, all the time. With the MDR I haven't been able to do a proper test. Every time I want to do it, I end up just listening to music, lol. However, there has been this one instance where the difference between sources was very evident. I'm hesitant to bring it up, because I noticed almost in passing and didn't really go back to test it, so I could very well be mistaken. 

When I auditioned the Focal Clear, LCD-X and Arya I started with a iDSD Micro BL. I had made up my mind in the first 15 minutes that the Arya was my favorite sound, but it still felt somewhat veiled compared to what I was used to from the IER-Z1R. So I asked the dealer to let me try it with a different amp (so you see, I'm not stuck in thinking there can be no difference ). He gave me the Hugo2 and, as soon as I plugged it in, it was obvious that the veil had disappeared and it sounded as clear as I would've expected/hoped. But I didn't go back and forth to verify this, I just continued with the Hugo2 and tried some other headphones. Maybe I should repeat this experiment the next time I'm there, so I'll know for sure.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Every time I want to do it, I end up just listening to music, lol


That's the magic of the Z1R's and why i'd rather get a Dave for them and not an Utopia (couldn't do it anyway since they're open) or a Stellia for the TA.Difference with the TA vs the Mojo hit me like a truck though.For me the Hugo 2 sounded too much like the Mojo to justify buying it.Better,but too familiar,and i see the TA as a bigger step up.Couldn't do a/b's but it just didn't impress me the way the TA did ,especially balanced.It does have the advantage of being battery powered though,so u can save on mains filtering and get the best out of it straight away.Plus portable.


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> I've been ganged up on before (online). I think I can handle it.


I can see how you could misinterpret...I meant us ganging up on Adrianm But I think he can handle it!


----------



## candlejack

Gadget67 said:


> I can see how you could misinterpret...I meant us ganging up on Adrianm But I think he can handle it!


Oh, @adrianm holds quite agreeable views, why would anyone want to gang up on him?


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Oh, @adrianm holds quite agreeable views, why would anyone want to gang up on him?


Thank you  I was just on the Dave forum earlier and Rob Watts was explaining why usb cables don't matter since Dave is immune to jitter due to a buffer they have implemented.Each merchant selling his wares aside, people were still arguing with each other 2-3 years after that post that HE,the creator of the dac doesn't know what he's talking about and they can hear differences in usb cables.
   Now i just want to get it so i can post a picture over there with the Dave and the usb cable from my toothbrush titled "IT SOUNDS AS GOOD AS YOUR 1k cables".
   That might make me less agreeable


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Thank you  I was just on the Dave forum earlier and Rob Watts was explaining why usb cables don't matter since Dave is immune to jitter due to a buffer they have implemented.Each merchant selling his wares aside, people were still arguing with each other 2-3 years after that post that HE,the creator of the dac doesn't know what he's talking about and they can hear differences in usb cables.
> Now i just want to get it so i can post a picture over there with the Dave and the usb cable from my toothbrush titled "IT SOUNDS AS GOOD AS YOUR 1k cables".
> That might make me less agreeable


Haha, yes, you might lose some fans.  But all DAC use buffers, so that's not really a distinguishing feature for the Dave. 

Btw, I have a little project I'm working on aimed at proving that USB cables (as long as they satisfy the USB spec requirements) make no difference to DAC functionality and hence sound quality. And packet jitter really is no issue whatsoever. Unfortunately I hit a bit of a snag with proving that bit jitter is also not an issue. I think I can gather sufficient circumstantial evidence for that, but I was aiming for direct evidence, so I'm a bit bummed. I'm also bummed that the feature of the USB protocol that I was counting on for this proof doesn't seem to exist. Anyway, enough said for now.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> I've been ganged up on before (online). I think I can handle it.


Do you think having the TA is pointless if the main sources are the 1A and 1Z? I use the stock cable of the IER-Z1R


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> Do you think having the TA is pointless if the main sources are the 1A and 1Z? I use the stock cable of the IER-Z1R


First of all, whatever I say, it's just one man's opinion.

It depends on your motivation. If you're considering the TA for improved sound quality with the IER-Z1R when you already have the 1A and/or 1Z, then yes, I think it's pointless. But if you want a slightly more powerful desktop setup to use with a wider variety of headphones, plus use in combination with your PC, or just want a new toy to play with (as was my case), then a nicely priced TA on the used market can be a very nice addition. And who knows, maybe you'll even find the sound to be better/different and enjoy it more than your Walkm*e*n.


----------



## JerryHead

I'm not quite sure what's going on.  I'm trying out my new refurb pair of Focal Clears on the TA today, and I have my Hiby Dap connected to the TA through the USB B.  Now, while I'm listening to Tidal through the UAPP app, I'm adjusting that software's EQ and MEB and I'm hearing the sound being fully adjusted as I tweak each of the settings.  Now, is it possible I am somehow bypassing the DAC in the TA while I'm listening to my Hiby through it, and actually using the DAC of the HIBY?  I have my Focal Clears connected through the XLR4.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> First of all, whatever I say, it's just one man's opinion.
> 
> It depends on your motivation. If you're considering the TA for improved sound quality with the IER-Z1R when you already have the 1A and/or 1Z, then yes, I think it's pointless. But if you want a slightly more powerful desktop setup to use with a wider variety of headphones, plus use in combination with your PC, or just want a new toy to play with (as was my case), then a nicely priced TA on the used market can be a very nice addition. And who knows, maybe you'll even find the sound to be better/different and enjoy it more than your Walkm*e*n.


Having my windows PC as a source could change everything. For now, I have my PHA-2A which has been solid


----------



## candlejack

JerryHead said:


> I'm not quite sure what's going on.  I'm trying out my new refurb pair of Focal Clears on the TA today, and I have my Hiby Dap connected to the TA through the USB B.  Now, while I'm listening to Tidal through the UAPP app, I'm adjusting that software's EQ and MEB and I'm hearing the sound being fully adjusted as I tweak each of the settings.  Now, is it possible I am somehow bypassing the DAC in the TA while I'm listening to my Hiby through it, and actually using the DAC of the HIBY?  I have my Focal Clears connected through the XLR4.


You are not using the DAC in your Hiby. The output of a DAC is by definition an analog signal. While the TA has analog inputs (which it digitizes btw), the USB is a strictly digital connection (I'm referring here to the data part, not the power part). What is likely happening is that UAPP is applying processing to the digital data before sending it to the TA via USB. I don't have UAPP in front of me right now, but I remember it had a "bit-perfect" setting (I was almost always using that) in which all volume/equalizer/etc. settings are disabled.


----------



## JerryHead

candlejack said:


> You are not using the DAC in your Hiby. The output of a DAC is by definition an analog signal. While the TA has analog inputs (which it digitizes btw), the USB is a strictly digital connection (I'm referring here to the data part, not the power part). What is likely happening is that UAPP is applying processing to the digital data before sending it to the TA via USB. I don't have UAPP in front of me right now, but I remember it had a "bit-perfect" setting (I was almost always using that) in which all volume/equalizer/etc. settings are disabled.


Sorry, I'm obviously ignorant to such matters, but this is very helpful.  So, even though I'm utilizing the DAC in the TA in this way, I'm still able to apply processing to the digital data before sending it through the TA?  That's great.  This so far seems to be the way to get a sound that is most optimal to me.  I think it sounds better this way than bit perfect, at least with the Focal Clears, which otherwise maybe weren't proving to be the best headphones for the TA.


----------



## candlejack

JerryHead said:


> Sorry, I'm obviously ignorant to such matters, but this is very helpful.  So, even though I'm utilizing the DAC in the TA in this way, I'm still able to apply processing to the digital data before sending it through the TA?  That's great.  This so far seems to be the way to get a sound that is most optimal to me.  I think it sounds better this way than bit perfect, at least with the Focal Clears, which otherwise maybe weren't proving to be the best headphones for the TA.


As long as you enjoy the result, go for it!


----------



## JerryHead

candlejack said:


> As long as you enjoy the result, go for it!


I reassessed, and decided the processing via the native Hiby Music App was producing better results on stored files than the UAPP.


----------



## Umwelt (Jun 10, 2020)

Spent some time the past few days with the TA and various input and format combinations, as well as for video applications. A couple of observations that may save future users some time:

1) Checking the sample frequency that the outputting device is feeding the TA is important for DSP settings (DSEE HX Upscaling, DSD Remastering) to take effect. Even if using compressed audio (mp3 files 320kbps or lower, variable bit rate mp3, etc.) and PCM 44.1khz (CD, flac files) sources, if the outputting device is set to a higher sampling frequency, then everything will be software upsampled before it reaches the TA, which may read it as a sampling rate to which DSP does not apply or is implemented differently. Lesson is, check the audio output settings on your PC, sound board, player, etc.

This point may be why some people felt these settings make no difference (though it can indeed be very subtle even when they are in effect).

2) For analog input on the TA, DSP settings only apply when analog input is set to PCM 48khz (the TA cannot automatically recognize the sample rate of the incoming signal from the analog inputs, so it has to be user-selected in the menu). However, when analog input is set to PCM 48khz, audio lags video by about half-second, even if all DSP settings are turned off. I'm guessing that for this setting, the TA has to carry out an additional process in the ADC step to prepare the signal for DSP, even if they are not active. Setting analog input to any other sample rate gets rid of any AV lag.

Other people reported lag also of .5 seconds with video when using a USB connection, though I have not tried this. The only USB input I've tested is an iPhone using a lighting to USB-B cable (BTW, these phones upsample everything to 44.1khz before it reaches the TA, so they can benefit from DSP settings). Optical input does not have this problem regardless of sampling rate or settings. Have not tested Coax.


----------



## nc8000

Umwelt said:


> Spent some time the past few days with the TA and various input and format combinations, as well as for video applications. A couple of observations that may save future users some time:
> 
> 1) Checking the sample frequency that the outputting device is feeding the TA is important for DSP settings (DSEE HX Upscaling, DSD Remastering) to take effect. Even if using compressed audio (mp3 files 320kbps or lower, variable bit rate mp3, etc.) and PCM 44.1khz (CD, flac files) sources, if the outputting device is set to a higher sampling frequency, then everything will be software upsampled before it reaches the TA, which may read it as a sampling rate to which DSP does not apply or is implemented differently. Lesson is, check the audio output settings on your PC, sound board, player, etc.
> 
> ...



Analog input has no sample rate and is not pcm as those terms only apply to digital signals. The analog input signal is immediately converted to digital at the highest bit depth and sample rate as the TA internally operates exclusively in the digital domain


----------



## Umwelt

nc8000 said:


> Analog input has no sample rate and is not pcm as those terms only apply to digital signals. The analog input signal is immediately converted to digital at the highest bit depth and sample rate as the TA internally operates exclusively in the digital domain



Yes, but the TA uses one of the following input settings for the analog input: 
[PCM48kHz]/[PCM96kHz]/[PCM192kHz]/ [DSD2.8MHz]/[DSD5.6MHz]/[DSD11.2MHz]

With the latter as the default. The key point is that for AV use cases, even if the analog source is actually the equivalent of PCM 48khz, it's better to lie to the TA and select a different format to avoid the additional processing step and lag. For pure audio uses it may be better to select 48khz instead if the ability to apply the DSEE HX to the analog input is desired.


----------



## nc8000

Umwelt said:


> Yes, but the TA uses one of the following input settings for the analog input:
> [PCM48kHz]/[PCM96kHz]/[PCM192kHz]/ [DSD2.8MHz]/[DSD5.6MHz]/[DSD11.2MHz]
> 
> With the latter as the default. The key point is that for AV use cases, even if the analog source is actually the equivalent of PCM 48khz, it's better to lie to the TA and select a different format to avoid the additional processing step and lag. For pure audio uses it may be better to select 48khz instead if the ability to apply the DSEE HX to the analog input is desired.



The analog input signal is not equivalent to anything, it is an analog signal and dont care how it was created.

What you select from the list of formats is what digital format the TA should convert the analog signal to for further processing so yes if you want to apply DSEE HX to the signal you must select PCM48 as that is the only one that DSEE HX can work on and yes that will then add an extra processing step that might introduce lag on video.

Generally it is recommended to convert to the highest possible resolution as that gives most headroom for signal processing and volume control without possible loss in sq


----------



## Umwelt

nc8000 said:


> The analog input signal is not equivalent to anything, it is an analog signal and dont care how it was created.
> 
> What you select from the list of formats is what digital format the TA should convert the analog signal to



That's what I meant, or rather, the equivalent on the digital source of the original analog output, for example if it uses the PCM 48khz format and then applies its own DAC where the analog signal goes into the target device (TA), then some may suppose (as I originally did) that it would be better to select the corresponding format on the TA as well, but for the reasons you also mentioned it's generally preferable to not do that.


----------



## darmccombs

Ok, I have read this whole thread, and the owners manual 3 times.  I am ready for UPS to deliver my TA tomorrow.  🤓


----------



## adrianm

darmccombs said:


> Ok, I have read this whole thread, and the owners manual 3 times.  I am ready for UPS to deliver my TA tomorrow.  🤓


Same,should get the kimber cable,ifi galvanic and an optical cable.Time to do some testing with the Ta


----------



## candlejack

darmccombs said:


> Ok, I have read this whole thread, and the owners manual 3 times.  I am ready for UPS to deliver my TA tomorrow.  🤓


But do you have your _upgrade USB cable_ ready as well? 🙃


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> But do you have your _upgrade USB cable_ ready as well? 🙃


I do since i had to get a 3m cable anyway,just a chord c-line though,no aq carbons or diamonds


----------



## iFi audio

adrianm said:


> ifi galvanic



Not a bad idea at all  

It's cool that galvanic isolators work with other USB stuff and don't discard boutique cables.


----------



## darmccombs

candlejack said:


> But do you have your _upgrade USB cable_ ready as well? 🙃


Actually Yes.  I already have  2 upgraded power cabels to try and one upgraded USB cable.

While reading the whole thread, I noticed that you are a big believer in upgraded cables.  I have seen many instances where different cables produce different sounds.  I have even seen this with digital cables.  I won't try to say why, because I don't know why.

Just recently I experienced this with my iPad Pro to RME ADI-2 Dac/Amo connection.  I use a USB-C to USB-A adapter, then a USB-A to USB-C cable.  I had been using the RME stock USB-A to USB-B cable.  A couple nights ago I came across an upgraded USB-A to USB-B cable that I used to with my home (Full size speaker) setup.

The difference wasn't night and day, but it was noticeable.  The sound got tighter (more detail and less boominess in the bass).  

So I'm not trying to start a cable debate, I'm just saying that I am in the camp of those that believe in cables (to a point - of diminishing returns).

Anyway, I am ready for the TA and some testing.


----------



## Umwelt

Maybe USB cables are just a creature of their own category when it comes to digital audio signal delivery, but other popular digital cable types like optical or HDMI simply don't care about "upgrades". The signal is either delivered continuously or its not (in which case there are simply skips in the signal). That's why the only reason to pay a premium on such cables is if very long runs (over 6m/20ft) for a cable construction that can maintain signal continuity over such run. So continuity is all that matters. But maybe there's something special to USB tech that introduces other factors? Though you'd think that the USB-C standard would have already addressed them.
Also, never underestimate the power of placebo.


----------



## darmccombs

Umwelt said:


> Maybe USB cables are just a creature of their own category when it comes to digital audio signal delivery, but other popular digital cable types like optical or HDMI simply don't care about "upgrades". The signal is either delivered continuously or its not (in which case there are simply skips in the signal). That's why the only reason to pay a premium on such cables is if very long runs (over 6m/20ft) for a cable construction that can maintain signal continuity over such run. So continuity is all that matters. But maybe there's something special to USB tech that introduces other factors? Though you'd think that the USB-C standard would have already addressed them.
> Also, never underestimate the power of placebo.


In my example, I am pretty sure it's not placebo.  I already owned both cables, and I really didn't care which sounded better, and I was ok if I didn't hear a difference.  One of the cables was going into my spare cable box either way, and I didnt care which it was.  And, I swapped the cables back and forth on various tracks.  I kept hearing the same things.

There are other times, in other systems, that I tested various cables and could not hear a difference.  I'm ok with that.  And I'm ok with some folks not hearing differences in cables.  I was a non-believer for a while too.


----------



## JerryHead

For those connecting their Mac (or PC) computers to the TA via USB B, What're you using for software?  I'm trying out Amarre Luxe, and really like it.  Just wish it wasn't $100 though.


----------



## darmccombs

JerryHead said:


> For those connecting their Mac (or PC) computers to the TA via USB B, What're you using for software?  I'm trying out Amarre Luxe, and really like it.  Just wish it wasn't $100 though.


Amarra and Audirvana seem to be the sounding and have the best features, overall, for the mac.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 11, 2020)

Model of Samsung Smart TV used as digital source.




Monster ULT I1000FO-4 Ultra 1000 Toslink S/PDIF Fiber Optic Audio Cable
Sony NW-WM1Z Digital Audio Player (Japanese Tourist Edition)
Sony TA-ZH1ES DAC/AMP Firmware 1.03
Sony MUC-B20SB1 Headphone Cable 4.4mm Pentaconn-3.5mm
Sony MDR-Z7 #025676 Over-Ear Headphones
Sony Walkman Cradle BCR-NWH10
AQCarbon USB

Conclusion:

So after all this time I truly was interested to see how fiber-optic would be from a TV in comparison to the Cradle/1Z/AQCarbon USB? The set up with the TA was identical to what I normally use, except using a generic power cord.

Took a 24bit file (noted) directly out of the 1Z, then put it on a USB thumb drive and played it on the TV. Not sure what but-rate the TV sends to the TA? Though interestingly I tried listening to some SACD conversions prior and the TV made the files much louder than the 1Z. Though now using this exact same file shows the two digital sources are equal in volume.

I’m happy to announce both files were identical playing from the 1Z in the Cradle or the TV playing optical.

I was going to do a blind test but the two digital sources were identical.

In ending it’s true that optical seems to be better than coaxial into the TA. This really has me wondering how good optical would be from a laptop? But in my tests the Smart TV optical was parallel in quality to the Walkman DAP on this test.

It should also be noted the TA does really good with the XBA-Z7 for a headphone theater movie experience.

https://www.samsung.com/sg/tvs/uhdtv-mu6100/UA65MU6100KXXS/

For what it’s worth, I’m no expert in what files beyond regular 16/44.1 and 320kbps the TV will put out. I do know that maybe the files it would not play were SACD not yet converted to FLAC. It did play my 24bit files yet I’m not sure of the bit-rate sent to the TA?


----------



## nc8000

Redcarmoose said:


> Model of Samsung Smart TV used as digital source.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I also run a Samsung SmartTV optically into the TA and it works well. Before I got my Auralic streamer I ran an ancient Acer NetBook computer optically into the TA as my main source but it died )why I got the Auralic) so could not do any A/B testing


----------



## Redcarmoose

nc8000 said:


> I also run a Samsung SmartTV optically into the TA and it works well. Before I got my Auralic streamer I ran an ancient Acer NetBook computer optically into the TA as my main source but it died )why I got the Auralic) so could not do any A/B testing



I purchased the Walkmans first. But if someone just wanted a really really good home system there is no reason I can come up with why simply hooking up a Smart TV with an external drive would not work most of the time. Though to be critical here, there is actually some files the TV will not recognize that the Walkman will. But even if somehow had just 16/44.1 and 320 kbps files they would be fine. Along with the fact that they could watch movies too.


----------



## Redcarmoose

nc8000 said:


> I also run a Samsung SmartTV optically into the TA and it works well. Before I got my Auralic streamer I ran an ancient Acer NetBook computer optically into the TA as my main source but it died )why I got the Auralic) so could not do any A/B testing



I try to keep variables to a minimum, so I didn’t fold in USB from a laptop. Though I could be wrong but as of right now I’m thinking optical is a good way to go. The reason I don’t pursue it, is I don’t need to. But for what ever reason I used to downplay optical out of a TV as being good doing FLAC file playback? But now I can say it’s fine? I have other TVs, so I must have been confused? Have you found optical to be better than USB?


----------



## nc8000

Redcarmoose said:


> I try to keep variables to a minimum, so I didn’t fold in USB from a laptop. Though I could be wrong but as of right now I’m thinking optical is a good way to go. The reason I don’t pursue it, is I don’t need to. But for what ever reason I used to downplay optical out of a TV as being good doing FLAC file playback? But now I can say it’s fine? I have other TVs, so I must have been confused? Have you found optical to be better than USB?



Opticals main advantage is that it is electrically seperate between the 2 devices however as I understand it optical can only handle up to 24/96


----------



## Redcarmoose

nc8000 said:


> Opticals main advantage is that it is electrically seperate between the 2 devices however as I understand it optical can only handle up to 24/96



Good point!


----------



## adrianm

Redcarmoose said:


> In ending it’s true that optical seems to be better than coaxial into the TA. This really has me wondering how good optical would be from a laptop? But in my tests the Smart TV optical was parallel in quality to the Walkman DAP on this test.


I can help you here tonight.After i finish work gonna try the new optical cable vs usb with and without igalvanic with my gaming pc (so a lot "noisier" than a laptop,but galvanic isolation should take care of that).With a laptop it depends if you keep it plugged in while running vs battery only .


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 11, 2020)

Sighted tests can be so misleading. Though for me having both be the same volume was not only intriguing but surprising and mandatory. Obviously louder can sound better. Though due to bias I started to think that the TV actually wasn’t as smooth. Then I started to forget which source I was listening to, which helped. Though I may have to do this test again, at this point it seems far superior to my RCA Coaxial test. It also seems better than computer USB, but I’m not sure? But that will be cool if we can get others to confirm optical superiority! Even superiority with a different source. And it’s not the first time optical has been suggested here.

Still though as mentioned, we have an optical ceiling on the big-rate; if someone really needs it.


----------



## adrianm

For me , if the difference isn't glaringly obvious, i chalk it up to bias or margin of error and consider it not worth the hassle.I know some people like the Hugo 2 vs TA more,i can imagine they consider the  TT2 way better,especially with Mscaler. Comparing them side by side with 4-5 tracks each the TT2 sounded worse and adding the M-scaler made it sound the same,to the point where i couldn't a/b which is which (using balanced on the TA and single ended on TT2).So why spend 8x the price? Dave is a whole other story though,and the price delta is actually smaller. For me, it's the only thing that makes sense as an upgrade down the line.But the TA is so good i have a hard time justifying it.Plus the TA is so much better looking  and that matters more than i care to admit.
  While i do hear differences in cables they mostly add or subtract distortion.Some people like it,some people don't.But i think it's silly to go crazy with expensive cables instead of upgrading your dac/headphones.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 11, 2020)

adrianm said:


> For me , if the difference isn't glaringly obvious, i chalk it up to bias or margin of error and consider it not worth the hassle.I know some people like the Hugo 2 vs TA more,i can imagine they consider the  TT2 way better,especially with Mscaler. Comparing them side by side with 4-5 tracks each the TT2 sounded worse and adding the M-scaler made it sound the same,to the point where i couldn't a/b which is which (using balanced on the TA and single ended on TT2).So why spend 8x the price? Dave is a whole other story though,and the price delta is actually smaller. For me, it's the only thing that makes sense as an upgrade down the line.But the TA is so good i have a hard time justifying it.Plus the TA is so much better looking  and that matters more than i care to admit.
> While i do hear differences in cables they mostly add or subtract distortion.Some people like it,some people don't.But i think it's silly to go crazy with expensive cables instead of upgrading your dac/headphones.



Honestly for me it’s the tone and overall authority of sound. Any extra details or special imaging effects are like an added bonus. Today I only used the 2014 MDR-Z7 headphones I spent $360 on. Why? Because I know them, they don’t confuse me, and they are resolving enough to do the test. If everything is musical and even beyond musical somewhat jaw-dropping; then I’m fine with it. At times as audiophiles we don’t respect non-audiophile extras. They don’t come with some style of audiophile symbol of quality, so we question them.

I actually thought about getting a Dave awhile back. It would have been an expensive purchase. But instead I purchased more gear in other directions. But maybe I like not having all my eggs in one basket? I could not have afforded to add to the Dave?


----------



## adrianm

Redcarmoose said:


> Honestly for me it’s the tone and overall authority of sound. Any extra details or special imaging effects are like an added bonus. Today I only used the 2014 MDR-Z7 headphones I spent $360 on. Why? Because I know them, they don’t confuse me, and they are resolving enough to do the test. If everything is musical and even beyond musical somewhat jaw-dropping; then I’m fine with it. At times as audiophiles we don’t respect non-audiophile extras. They don’t come with some style of audiophile symbol of quality, so we question them.
> 
> I actually thought about getting a Dave awhile back. It would have been an expensive purchase. But instead I purchased more gear in other directions. But maybe I like not having all my eggs in one basket? I could not have afforded to add to the Dave?


There are some pretty steep discounts to be had now that make it..almost worth it to me.Did you get a chance to audition it?


----------



## Redcarmoose

adrianm said:


> There are some pretty steep discounts to be had now that make it..almost worth it to me.Did you get a chance to audition it?



No.
It was this thing where I purchased the 1Z and all the talk about it sounding different made me think that I would not like much else. But the main thing for me is I’m not around any gear to try so demos are hard to do. Sony was easy to find. Basically it’s everywhere.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> I can help you here tonight.After i finish work gonna try the new optical cable vs usb with and without igalvanic with my gaming pc (so a lot "noisier" than a laptop,but galvanic isolation should take care of that).With a laptop it depends if you keep it plugged in while running vs battery only .


The iGalvanic only claims to improve the 5V power line of USB right, it does nothing for the data link?


----------



## adrianm

There are a ton of hi-fi stores near where i live,but interestingly enough only one store carries Sony and they never had in the showroom in the 2 years since it came out.The Dave still haunts me though


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> The iGalvanic only claims to improve the 5V power line of USB right, it does nothing for the data link?


It also reclocks and etc,but i'm mostly banking on the galvanic isolation to make a difference.
https://ifi-audio.com/products/nano-igalvanic3-0/


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> It also reclocks and etc,but i'm mostly banking on the galvanic isolation to make a difference.
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/nano-igalvanic3-0/


I wonder how big your cojones need to be to claim the following:
*REclock2, REgenerate2, REbalance2®* – cleaner, clearer music. The 2nd generation of this technology creates an all new signal, eliminates computer jitter and removes noise contamination to restore a ‘balanced’ signal.

I like how they wrote the word _balanced_ to help you visualize the air-quotes.

But anyway, I'm curious to hear about your findings.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> I wonder how big your cojones need to be to claim the following:
> *REclock2, REgenerate2, REbalance2®* – cleaner, clearer music. The 2nd generation of this technology creates an all new signal, eliminates computer jitter and removes noise contamination to restore a ‘balanced’ signal.
> 
> I like how they wrote the word _balanced_ to help you visualize the air-quotes.
> ...


Yes,me too.Have to work atm though .


----------



## Umwelt

Redcarmoose said:


> Took a 24bit file (noted) directly out of the 1Z, then put it on a USB thumb drive and played it on the TV. Not sure what but-rate the TV sends to the TA?



Almost surely the TV samples anything it gets to either 48kHz or 96khHz for its optical output. If you're only using flacs this is all you need. For DSD files, the TA's processing may be able to compensate and produce almost identical results.



Redcarmoose said:


> In ending it’s true that optical seems to be better than coaxial into the TA.



In runs of reasonable length, optical is strictly superior to coaxial.


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> For those connecting their Mac (or PC) computers to the TA via USB B, What're you using for software?  I'm trying out Amarre Luxe, and really like it.  Just wish it wasn't $100 though.


I've tried Audirvana streaming Tidal vs the Tidal desktop app,and to me the Tidal app sounds  better.For playing files i've heard VLC sounds good and it's free.Not sure if audiophile good but maybe others have better suggestions.You could try that free Audirvana trial for a month,see how you like it.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> I've tried Audirvana streaming Tidal vs the Tidal desktop app,and to me the Tidal app sounds  better.For playing files i've heard VLC sounds good and it's free.Not sure if audiophile good but maybe others have better suggestions.You could try that free Audirvana trial for a month,see how you like it.


There's a couple of free Sony desktop apps you can download as well.


----------



## JerryHead

candlejack said:


> There's a couple of free Sony desktop apps you can download as well.


Not for newer version of MacOs.  I have 10.15 and I don't believe Sony high-res software supports any with this version


----------



## Umwelt

Just use VLC. It plays everything cleanly and accurately, it's free, open source, and available for pretty much all operating systems.


----------



## adrianm

iFi audio said:


> Not a bad idea at all
> 
> It's cool that galvanic isolators work with other USB stuff and don't discard boutique cables.


After playing around with inputs it seems the pc doesn't recognize the dac anymore,when connected to it,both leds are on,any ideas?


----------



## adrianm (Jun 11, 2020)

Has anyone played with these settings ? *setting i guess.
Also apparently my update to 1.0.3 didn't work,doing it again now.Not sure if it affects sound quality or it's just that bug fixing mentioned in the patch notes.


----------



## candlejack (Jun 11, 2020)

adrianm said:


> Has anyone played with these settings ? *setting i guess


@morgenstern09 has. Didn't do much for him. He was trying to decrese the audio delay with his wm1a, as far as I remember.


adrianm said:


> After playing around with inputs it seems the pc doesn't recognize the dac anymore,when connected to it,both leds are on,any ideas?


Can you give more details?


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> @morgenstern09 has. Didn't do much for him. He was trying to decrese the audio delay with his wm1a, as far as I remember.
> 
> Can you give more details?


Switched a bit between usb inputs and optical cable while playing music to do a/b tests.Seems to have bugged out not only the Tidal app,but also Windows.Tried restarting and etc but still won't detect the TA when connected via the igalvanic.I know a lot of reviewers had problems when testing since you need to set it up a certain way.Read about it but don't remember.Worked fine in the start though until windows/tidal bugged out.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Switched a bit between usb inputs and optical cable while playing music to do a/b tests.Seems to have bugged out not only the Tidal app,but also Windows.Tried restarting and etc but still won't detect the TA when connected via the igalvanic.I know a lot of reviewers had problems when testing since you need to set it up a certain way.Read about it but don't remember.Worked fine in the start though until windows/tidal bugged out.


Does it detect it without the ifi?


----------



## adrianm

yes but device manager keeps refreshing every second when i connect the Igalvanic ,like in only detects it for a split second


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> yes but device manager keeps refreshing every second when i connect the Igalvanic ,like in only detects it for a split second


Sounds like the igalvanic is the one that got messed up.


----------



## adrianm

adrianm said:


> yes but device manager keeps refreshing every second when i connect the Igalvanic ,like in only detects it for a split second


And my list of connected usb devices gets filed with like 20 devices like it's spamming connections.


----------



## bflat

adrianm said:


> yes but device manager keeps refreshing every second when i connect the Igalvanic ,like in only detects it for a split second



I have tried iGalvanic with TA and it flat out does not work. Neither the iGalvanic or TA are malfunctioning but the combination is a no-go. I also don't expect iFi or Sony to figure out what the problem is.


----------



## adrianm

yeah,too much hassle,tried switching usb ports,restarting,unplugging,different ground connection settings,nothing worked.And there are a ton of other people that had problems.Too expensive for this kinda hassle.Comparing optical and usb today though...couldn't tell one apart from the other,and i tried testing a lot.Optical might have had an ever so slightly cleaner sound in some parts of some tracks (mostly with highs).but 99%+ identical,if not 100.
  The igalvanic ,while it worked,did actually seem to change the sound a bit,very slightly warmer ,bass had a tiny bit less boom. But very marginal.Overall i noticed some of the same changes as i did with the mains filtering,only that was far more noticeable in all areas.This was like..3% vs 15% improvement or more with the isotek sirius and cable.I was curious how much of the changes would be retained if i removed the mains filter out of the equation but...no such luck.
  The isotek stuff is the only worthwhile upgrade i can see that actually benefits the TA considerably.Returning the Igalvanic , and i would've returned the (not very cheap nor very expensive ) usb cable and gone straight for this 20 euro optical cable if i had thought to get it earlier.


----------



## adrianm

bflat said:


> I have tried iGalvanic with TA and it flat out does not work. Neither the iGalvanic or TA are malfunctioning but the combination is a no-go. I also don't expect iFi or Sony to figure out what the problem is.


it worked for me for a few songs,was more of an improvement than the Jitterbug which i'm starting to doubt the effects of.


----------



## Lookout57

JerryHead said:


> For those connecting their Mac (or PC) computers to the TA via USB B, What're you using for software?  I'm trying out Amarre Luxe, and really like it.  Just wish it wasn't $100 though.


Audirvana has the best features and sound to me.


----------



## bflat

adrianm said:


> it worked for me for a few songs,was more of an improvement than the Jitterbug which i'm starting to doubt the effects of.



Same experience for me - works sometimes, sometimes only hear static, sometimes won't even connect. I now use a Matrix Element H which a PCI-e card solution for audio and it works perfectly. For sure the TA USB input needs power because if I shut off USB power on my Element H, TA will not connect. I'm guessing the problem with iGalvanic has to do with power. Maybe adding an iDefender will resolve it, but that is more expense and complexity on a possible solution. On the other hand, I've never had a problem with iGalvanic until trying with the TA. All my DAPs, dongles, and numerous DACs I've had in the past worked fine with iGalvanic.


----------



## adrianm

For me it seems like the Igalvanic is the problem,since even when i connect the igalvanic alone to my pc (No TA) my windows goes crazy and device manager gets spammed with connections on and off every second.Adding the TA,it sometimes detects it for half a second ,then it's gone.


----------



## bflat

JerryHead said:


> For those connecting their Mac (or PC) computers to the TA via USB B, What're you using for software?  I'm trying out Amarre Luxe, and really like it.  Just wish it wasn't $100 though.



IMHO:

JRiver - Great functionality and sound but outdated UI. Has other extra features for other media types that you may or may not need.
Foobar - Most capable of all but need quite of bit of knowledge to configure and UI is by far the worst. But it's free.
Audirvana - Best UI and competitive functionality/sound. Strictly an audio player. Recently ported to Windows so that's what I use.



adrianm said:


> For me it seems like the Igalvanic is the problem,since even when i connect the igalvanic alone to my pc (No TA) my windows goes crazy and device manager gets spammed with connections on and off every second.Adding the TA,it sometimes detects it for half a second ,then it's gone.



For PC, I only used a 3.0 USB port and cable for iGalvanic and did not have a problem other than with TA. I would check to see how much current your USB port provides. There is a minimum for iGalvanic to work. But again, I don't know what good that will do since I don't think TA and iGalvanic work together.


----------



## adrianm

Well since it worked for 10-15 minutes that can't be the problem.I think i'm done chasing unicorns, tomorrow gonna get the Sony Kimber cable finally,and that's probably going to be the last change i do untill i eventually upgrade the TA to the Dave or maybe the DMP-Z1 depending if i get to hear it and where prices land.All these side-grades aren't worth the hassle.


----------



## candlejack

Now that the dust has settled, I just wanted to say that I found it very amusing and quite ironic that a product, whose sole purpose is to offer a solution to a non-existing problem, actually created a new problem instead.


----------



## adrianm

Wouldn't call it non existent,still not crazy happy with the TA.It's not like it (or most dacs) "just works " in a vacuum.The tidal app still can't detect the TA and cuts off sound sometimes.There are also dependencies like mains power.Lights flickered today, powered went out at some point  ,some neighbours were using power tools before i guess.After the  power came back on the sound did improve for a while.I'm sure i'm not imagining it,the TA sounds better later at night than in the morning.This is why i'd consider something like the DMP-Z1 that is self contained.Though i'm sure the Dave would beat it for SQ and is actually cheaper now.It's also supposed to be more or less immune to the power crap.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Wouldn't call it non existent,still not crazy happy with the TA.It's not like it (or most dacs) "just works " in a vacuum.The tidal app still can't detect the TA and cuts off sound sometimes.There are also dependencies like mains power.Lights flickered today, powered went out at some point  ,some neighbours were using power tools before i guess.After the  power came back on the sound did improve for a while.I'm sure i'm not imagining it,the TA sounds better later at night than in the morning.This is why i'd consider something like the DMP-Z1 that is self contained.Though i'm sure the Dave would beat it for SQ and is actually cheaper now.It's also supposed to be more or less immune to the power crap.


I say this jokingly: I'm sick of hearing you gush over the Dave. Just buy it already and redirect your unhappiness towards it.


----------



## adrianm

I did love it.There is complicated math involved though.Is it 1 X TA + 1 X 114060 better? Still working on that


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> I did love it.There is complicated math involved though.Is it 1 X TA + 1 X 114060 better? Still working on that


Given that I'm a bit older and wiser now, I'd say a nice trip to Japan with your better half is probably a better way to spend that kind of dough.  

And btw, I think there's nothing more satisfying when it comes to owning watches than being a one-watch-man. So my advice is to make sure which is the watch you love the most, get it and never look back, at least not for 5 years.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Given that I'm a bit older and wiser now, I'd say a nice trip to Japan with your better half is probably a better way to spend that kind of dough.
> 
> And btw, I think there's nothing more satisfying when it comes to owning watches than being a one-watch-man. So my advice is to make sure which is the watch you love the most, get it and never look back, at least not for 5 years.


Completely agree on both points, that's why i didn't get the omega seamaster 300.Narrowed it down to the 114060 , daytona ,or wait for the next no date since this one is a bit old.Feels a bit like a sub for my dad's generation for some reason.Figured better to spend the dough on travel before kids and get the toys later but with covid...
 Still not an easy decision to make... never regretted getting my car either,even though people said i was kinda crazy.But now that it's been gathering leaves and turds under a tree for 3 months...no regret,but less happy about the money spent  .Dave's not getting any more expensive though (unless maybe Brexit? ) and something better might come along.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> There's a couple of free Sony desktop apps you can download as well.


What are the names of thos Sony Apps?


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> What are the names of thos Sony Apps?


Something like Music Center and Hi-Res Audio Player. Just go to the TA software download page on sony.com.


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> I say this jokingly: I'm sick of hearing you gush over the Dave. Just buy it already and redirect your unhappiness towards it.


The Dave has actually been around for a while (2016 or thereabouts?).  The day after he buys it, Chord will release the Ralph...


----------



## candlejack (Jun 11, 2020)

Gadget67 said:


> The Dave has actually been around for a while (2016 or thereabouts?).  The day after he buys it, Chord will release the Ralph...


Lolololz!

Except that it seems Chord names get more boring as you move up the tiers, so they will probably release the John. 

Except#2, they will release the John 1 month + 1 day after he buys the Dave.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> Something like Music Center and Hi-Res Audio Player. Just go to the TA software download page on sony.com.


I only have Music Center. I'll check out Hi-Res Audio Player. Thanks!


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> Lolololz!
> 
> Except that it seems Chord names get more boring as you move up the tiers, so they will probably release the John.
> 
> Except#2, they will release the John 1 month + 1 day after he buys the Dave.


...or the “Charles” for which they will ask a princely sum...


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> ...or the “Charles” for which they will ask a princely sum...


True ,i know since it’s been out and i was a student,seemed loke something unreacheable at the time,but now,especially with the discounts available,it’s tempting,even when something new comes out in 2-3-4 years,with current hi-fi flagship prices i expect it to be double at least.And it certainly won’t get any worse,unlike my cash drain gaming pc for example


----------



## JerryHead

So, SQ and power from the XLR4 is identical to the 4.4 except it has slightly more bass?


----------



## candlejack

JerryHead said:


> So, SQ and power from the XLR4 is identical to the 4.4 except it has slightly more bass?


----------



## PaulMiami

Recently upgraded from an iPhone with the Apple USB adapter as a USB source for the Sony to a Sonore microRendu with their basic linear power supply.  All with Roon as the source.  I‘m shocked at how much better the Sony sounds with a really clean USB input.


----------



## Umwelt

PaulMiami said:


> Recently upgraded from an iPhone with the Apple USB adapter as a USB source for the Sony to a Sonore microRendu with their basic linear power supply.  All with Roon as the source.  I‘m shocked at how much better the Sony sounds with a really clean USB input.



iPhones do their own sampling and are overall not good source devices, so that's going to be the bigger factor in comparison to another source device more than connection types. The output is not configurable at all besides basic EQ. Phones in general should be avoided for serious listening.


----------



## adrianm

PaulMiami said:


> Recently upgraded from an iPhone with the Apple USB adapter as a USB source for the Sony to a Sonore microRendu with their basic linear power supply.  All with Roon as the source.  I‘m shocked at how much better the Sony sounds with a really clean USB input.


Have to agree with Unwelt,tested the Ta with a 300 euro node2i vs a 25k naim streamer...a bit better but not much in it.


----------



## iFi audio (Jun 12, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> Opticals main advantage is that it is electrically seperate between the 2 devices however as I understand it optical can only handle up to 24/96



Those are fair points. I'll also add that oftentimes coaxial S/PDIF connections sound better. Not always by a lot, but the difference is big enough to notice it.


----------



## iFi audio

darmccombs said:


> In my example, I am pretty sure it's not placebo.



I agree with you, it's not


----------



## candlejack

iFi audio said:


> I agree with you, it's not


Time to bust out the proof. I'm sure you guys have sufficient engineering to be able to do that.


----------



## Umwelt

iFi audio said:


> I'll also add that oftentimes coaxial S/PDIF connections sound better.



There is no reason for them (coax vs. optical) to sound different. The SPDIF standard is the same when employed both in coaxial cables with RCA connectors and fiber optic cables with TOSLINK connectors. It's the same protocol and specs for both, so the output will be identical. Practically, the coax cable is vulnerable to interference from ground loops and RF, whereas the optical cable is not. The only advantage the coax cable has is relatively more durability to physical stress, but that's all.


----------



## adrianm

Well problem is when listening to Tidal via SPDIF ,if a high res song comes along i get an error and output is automatically switched.And i shouldn't since the desktop app does the first unfold,up to 24/96,which is the limit.No problem with usb though.


----------



## iFi audio

candlejack said:


> Time to bust out the proof. I'm sure you guys have sufficient engineering to be able to do that.



What goes through USB cables is an analogue signal, which is a good starting point why it's subject to changes along the road and there's been a lot of talk about it already. But this aside, did you compare any USB cables? If so, did they differ one from another?



Umwelt said:


> There is no reason for them (coax vs. optical) to sound different.



According to the S/PDIF standard there should be no difference, but how various devices interact with each other isn't the same. After quite a few such comparisons at times I noticed no difference at all, but there were cases when coaxial connections were better. Of course that's only my own subjective opinion, you don't have to take my word for it 

Cheers,
Rob


----------



## Umwelt

iFi audio said:


> What goes through USB cables is an analogue signal



It's digital.



iFi audio said:


> Of course that's only my own subjective opinion, you don't have to take my word for it



This one isn't a matter of opinion though. Perhaps the difference you noticed is some RF interference from the environment or power lines leaking into your sound, and you happened to like it. Maybe makes it feel more "rich" and "full-bodied"  Kinda like what some vinyl lovers say.
But seriously, coax cable can be preferred for logistical reasons in industrial use cases, but for home use optical cables should always be chosen instead.


----------



## nc8000

Umwelt said:


> It's digital.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is digital information but while it is in the cable it is an electrical analog signal


----------



## Umwelt (Jun 12, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> It is digital information but while it is in the cable it is an electrical analog signal



This can be said of all electronics (except the analog part)...
To be clear, that's incorrect.

Misinformation is getting out of hand in this thread!


----------



## iFi audio (Jun 12, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> It is digital information but while it is in the cable it is an electrical analog signal



Yup 



Umwelt said:


> But seriously, coax cable can be preferred for logistical reasons in industrial use cases, but for home use optical cables should always be chosen instead.



Many people with findings similar to mine would argue on this one  I'm always up for trying things and seeing what happens. All good though!



Umwelt said:


> Perhaps the difference you noticed is some RF interference from the environment or power lines leaking into your sound, and you happened to like it. Maybe makes it feel more "rich" and "full-bodied"



Whatever this is, it can make a difference to my ears. Sometimes "rich" and "full-bodied" are what a given setup needs. But there are also factors other than those you listed 



Umwelt said:


> This can be said of all electronics (except the analog part)...
> To be clear, that's incorrect.



What's incorrect about it?



Umwelt said:


> Misinformation is getting out of hand in this thread!



I wouldn't go there just yet, we're exchanging what we know in civilized manner after all


----------



## Umwelt

iFi audio said:


> What's incorrect about it?



To call it an analog signal just because it uses electric currents.
Electrons are flowing all over the traces in the IC boards on your computer, phone, etc. Doesn't make them analog devices now does it?

A simple analog v. digital Google search will clear this confusion up for you easily.


----------



## iFi audio (Jun 12, 2020)

Umwelt said:


> To call it an analog signal just because it uses electric currents.



It's factual that electric currents go through USB cables and not rows of 0s and 1s, is it not  ? I understand your message, we're discussing digital data, but the way how it's sent is analog. I tackled this subject just to emphasize that electric currents going thorugh USB cables aren't immune to external factors.



Umwelt said:


> Electrons are flowing all over the traces in the IC boards on your computer, phone, etc. Doesn't make them analog devices now does it?



I think we know the answer to that question 



Umwelt said:


> clear this confusion up for you easily



Naah, there's no confusion


----------



## adrianm

How would you guys compare the IER Z1R with the MDR Z1R? and how big is the difference with the IER using it with the TA vs one of their walkmans? WM1Z vs A vs 
NW-ZX300?
I'm starting to see the value of listening to music away from my desk


----------



## Gamerlingual

@Redcarmoose @nc8000 

Do you guys see any benefit in getting the TA with the current cans I have listed in my signature? I don’t plan on going high price for end game as it seems like the 1AM2 and WH-1000XM3 are my end game over ear cans. IER-Z1R will remain my ultimate treasured audio item regardless of what I have. I did sample it with the MDR-Z1R and saw no major audio difference other than the TA adds the extra juice and you don’t need to raise the volume high to get some good sound.


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> @Redcarmoose @nc8000
> 
> Do you guys see any benefit in getting the TA with the current cans I have listed in my signature? I don’t plan on going high price for end game as it seems like the 1AM2 and WH-1000XM3 are my end game over ear cans. IER-Z1R will remain my ultimate treasured audio item regardless of what I have. I did sample it with the MDR-Z1R and saw no major audio difference other than the TA adds the extra juice and you don’t need to raise the volume high to get some good sound.



The TA is a really nice piece of kit and it works great with both Z1R however if I had gotten the IER together with the 1Z 3 1/2 years ago and had 1TB microSD been available I doubt I would ever have bought the TA and the MDR, 1Z plus IER would have been end game for all my needs. That said it is nice to have a dedicated home rig with a source that has storage enough for all my music in hires format (on the 1TB in the 1Z I can only fit it all downsampled to 16/44 or 16/48) and also being able to connect my tv via optical to the TA and a big full size phone does things the IER can’t


----------



## Umwelt

iFi audio said:


> Naah, there's no confusion



Now I see there was no confusion, just deliberate misinformation in saying that USB cables are analog cables. I hadn't noticed that you're a commercial account for a store that sells unnecessarily overpriced USB cables, so now this makes sense. Hopefully head-fi is still a place where misinformation is called out promptly, especially when posted deliberately for commercial interests. 

Anyway, most head-fiers should be smart enough, but with so much new people coming into the hobby it's better to be more alert and point out stuff like this.


----------



## iFi audio (Jun 12, 2020)

Umwelt said:


> just deliberate misinformation in saying that USB cables are analog cables.



Please re-read what I wrote. The USB standard is digital, but what goes through USB cables is analog in its form and there's no misinformation in this factual thing. It's not really debatable 



Umwelt said:


> for a store that sells unnecessarily overpriced USB cables



Actually, a fair bit more than that. iFi audio is a rather large audio manufacturer with worldwide distribution network and multiple different products in its portfolio, please see here: https://ifi-audio.com/



Umwelt said:


> Hopefully head-fi is still a place where misinformation is called out promptly, especially when posted deliberately for commercial interests.
> 
> Anyway, most head-fiers should be smart enough, but with so much new people coming into the hobby it's better to be more alert and point out stuff like this.



I think you and I wrote enough on the subject that anyone interested can digest this content and know what's what with USB


----------



## Umwelt

iFi audio said:


> Actually, a fair bit more than that. iFi audio is a rather large audio manufacturer with worldwide distribution network and multiple different products in its portfolio, please see here: https://ifi-audio.com/



USB cables are likely at the top of the list for most profitable items you sell though, since they are all ultimately the same cheap Chineseum, but adding a few flares and with ridiculous marketing strategies and claims, they can be overpriced and thus yield a larger profit margin than most other audio products. Any "audiophile" USB cable vendor stands to gain from silly ideas (to put it mildly) such as USB cables being somehow analog. It's too transparent and not welcome in a user-centric forum.

If someone is defending such practice and is not a vendor it has to be because they were also fooled by such tactics and want to justify their misinformed purchases.


----------



## PaulMiami

[
iPhones do their own sampling and are overall not good source devices, so that's going to be the bigger factor in comparison to another source device more than connection types. The output is not configurable at all besides basic EQ. Phones in general should be avoided for serious listening.
[/QUOTE]

Don’t understand your point on iPhone doing its own sampling.   When you have the Roon app running on an iPhone, it can be set up as a RAAT Roon Endpoint.   Using the Apple USB adapter you get bit perfect output for PCM and DSD out of the iPhone, pretty much the same as with a microRendu.  But that aside, the microRendu does sound better even though its the same data As the iPhone, minus perhaps noise and timing error, which theoretically should be irrelevant with asynchronous USB.


----------



## iFi audio (Jun 12, 2020)

Umwelt said:


> Any "audiophile" USB cable vendor stands to gain from silly ideas (to put it mildly) such as USB cables being somehow analog. It's too transparent and not welcome in a user-centric forum.



Being on this forum for several years I think that its users are very good in judging for themselves what's transparent and silly and what isn't. Let's leave this to them and communicate without any unpleasantries, alright? Thanks  !



Umwelt said:


> such as USB cables being somehow analog



Again, what goes through them in fact is. But this aside, I think that you understand the whole context of what I wanted to say but don't agree with me, which is fine. Let's agree to disagree. Enjoy your weekend  !


----------



## Umwelt

PaulMiami said:


> Don’t understand your point on iPhone doing its own sampling. When you have the Roon app running on an iPhone, it can be set up as a RAAT Roon Endpoint. Using the Apple USB adapter you get bit perfect output for PCM and DSD out of the iPhone, pretty much the same as with a microRendu. But that aside, the microRendu does sound better even though its the same data As the iPhone, minus perhaps noise and timing error, which theoretically should be irrelevant with asynchronous USB.



Oh, I was actually referring to the Music app on an iPhone. Totally forgot there's other apps since I don't really use mine for music 
Hard to say what accounts for the difference. For the iPhone I suppose you need one of those lightning to 3.5mm jack adapter. Maybe the lightning protocol doesn't output as much power for headphone out? We'd have to look at the lightning specs for some clues.



iFi audio said:


> Being on this forum for several years I think that its users are very good in judging for themselves what's transparent and silly and what isn't. Let's leave this to them and communicate without any unpleasantries, alright? Thanks  !



Okay, even though it's hard to do it, I'll try to add more sugar and a cherry on top when calling out a corporate account's BS next time.


----------



## Lookout57

Umwelt said:


> But seriously, coax cable can be preferred for logistical reasons in industrial use cases, but for home use optical cables should always be chosen instead.


Coax supports higher data rates than optical. So why would optical be preferred?


----------



## Umwelt

Lookout57 said:


> Coax supports higher data rates than optical. So why would optical be preferred?



No, they both use the same standard and bandwidth limitations (S/PDIF). Do you have a source for this?


----------



## candlejack

Well, it seems I've been dethroned as the obnoxious resident naysayer. 

It's so nice come to the forum and see that the messages I was supposed to write have already been posted by someone else. Saves a lot of time.  

@iFi audio If I may ask, who is the person behind this account? Is it the owner of iFi Audio, multiple random employees of the company or an employee dedicated to engaging the online community?


----------



## iFi audio

candlejack said:


> @iFi audio If I may ask, who is the person behind this account? Is it the owner of iFi Audio, multiple random employees of the company or an employee dedicated to engaging the online community?



The same one person since mid 2016, the name's Rob


----------



## PaulMiami

Umwelt said:


> Oh, I was actually referring to the Music app on an iPhone. Totally forgot there's other apps since I don't really use mine for music
> Hard to say what accounts for the difference. For the iPhone I suppose you need one of those lightning to 3.5mm jack adapter. Maybe the lightning protocol doesn't output as much power for headphone out? We'd have to look at the lightning specs for some clues.
> 
> The adapter that’s needed to use an iPhone as a Roon endpoint is the Apple lighting to camera adapter that has a USB port, not the adapter with a 3.5mm analogue jack. A USB cable connects the lightning camera adapter to the DAC USB port, in my case, the DAC is the Sony.  In this case the Sony sees a bit perfect source from Roon.
> ...


----------



## candlejack

iFi audio said:


> The same one person since mid 2016, the name's Rob


Hey Rob! And what is your official role with the company?


----------



## iFi audio

candlejack said:


> Hey Rob! And what is your official role with the company?



Among many other things, this here. Why  ?


----------



## candlejack

iFi audio said:


> Among many other things, this here. Why  ?


I was just curious what part of the company is the forum spokesperson coming from. Btw, you better claim some overtime, it's 11 PM in the UK.


----------



## Lookout57 (Jun 12, 2020)

Umwelt said:


> No, they both use the same standard and bandwidth limitations (S/PDIF). Do you have a source for this?


https://www.sony.com/electronics/audio-components/ta-zh1es/specifications

COAXIAL INPUT JACK PCM 2ch; 32/44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192 kHz (16/24 bit)
OPTICAL INPUT JACK PCM 2ch; 32/44.1/48/88.2/96 kHz (16/24 bit)

https://benchmarkmedia.com/collecti...rk-dac3-hgc-digital-to-analog-audio-converter

28 to 210 kHz (Coaxial Inputs)
28 to 96 kHz (Optical Inputs)

Those are 2 direct from manufacturers pages.

Google is your friend.


----------



## iFi audio (Jun 12, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Btw, you better claim some overtime, it's 11 PM in the UK.



Nah, Head-fi is a pleasure and a hobby thing, which is partially why I've been doing this for so long pretty much daily. Some disagreements here and there are a part of the package 




darmccombs said:


> A good TA thread used be here, but this thread now seems to be the Watch, USB, and member insulting thread.



That's a fair point, apologies for hijacking it


----------



## darmccombs

Can anyone point me to a good thread or forum about the TA-ZH1ES?  I just got my TA and was hoping to discuss the TA.

A good TA thread used be here, but this thread now seems to be the Watch, USB, and member insulting thread.


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## Umwelt

Lookout57 said:


> Those are 2 direct from manufacturers pages.



This may be manufacturer-specific though. As far as I understand they should have the same limitations in theory. But otherwise I stand corrected.

That said, in practice I wonder how many sources actually support more than 96khz over a digital coax output.


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## candlejack

darmccombs said:


> I just got my TA and was hoping to discuss the TA.


So discuss! What are your first impressions?


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## bflat (Jun 12, 2020)

iFi audio said:


> Nah, Head-fi is a pleasure and a hobby thing, which is partially why I've been doing this for so long pretty much daily. Some disagreements here and there are a part of the package



If you would like to contribute to this thread dedicated to TA, please feel free to get one and try to figure out why it doesn't work with the iFi iGalvanic. If that's not feasible, then I would suggest moving the debate on digital versus analog to the Audio Science thread along with anyone else that wants to debate.


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## darmccombs (Jun 12, 2020)

candlejack said:


> So discuss! What are your first impressions?


Well, I just got the TA yesterday, so I am still adjusting of course.  I currently have (2) RME ADI-2 dac/amp, that has EQ, and similar amp power output.  In comparison, the TA is a breeze to configure. 

Overall, the TA has a huge soundstage and the mid/high end really open up and a re clear expansive.  The RME is more toanaly balanced, IMO, with a little more lower bass range grunt.

I have the MDR-Z1R and the IER-Z1R, and was hoping that the MDR would really shine.  I want to use the IER for mobile use (driven by Ipad Pro, Macbook, or iphone) or in the office (with my mobile devices or the RME since the RME is pretty inconspicuous).  My first impression is that the IER sounds better on the TA, and the MDR sounds about the same on either the TA or the RME (overall SQ wise).

So, if things don't change, the big cans sound better on the small amp, and the little cans sound better on the big amp.  I want small-small and big-big.  LOL   I hope that makes some sense.

I've done a few sounds tests.  Please consider these preliminary.
- IER Balanced slightly better than unbalanced.
- IER better on low gain vs high.
- My old "upgraded" usb cable sounded slightly better to me than the stock one.  Please disregard this statement if you don't believe in cables sounding different.
- MDR, still testing High/Low gain settings.  Right now  have a slight preference with Low Gain, and balanced cable.
- Still playing with DSD upscaling.  Undecided.
- I used my RME as a DAC into the TA using some cheap moster interconnects.  This sounded better to me than using either device by itself with both the MDR and IER,
   - - I will pull better interconnects from my home system to see if this makes the RME->TA setup even better.
   - - I won't leave this setup in place.  I bought the TA for a separate location.  It does tell me that the RME DAC is very good, and that I may want to later by a better amp to go with it.

If anyone has tips/suggestions, let me know.


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## Umwelt

darmccombs said:


> I've done a few sounds tests. Please consider these preliminary.



Thanks for sharing your initial impressions!

It's interesting that the MDR and TA were basically designed for each other, but you don't find the MDR to sound that special on it compared to another amp. The IER came a year or so after, right? I'd imagine they expected the IER to be used mostly on the go, so they may have tuned it more with their portable devices, but it's a nice surprise that it works as well (if not better) with the TA.

I'm also not sure what to make of the DSD upsampling (or DS HXEE upscaling for CDs). But Sony has both on by default, so I figure that whatever Sony tells me is good for me has to be good for me lol. I have them on for now. I did turn on the DC phase linearizer, because why not?

I agree about wanting small-small though. I wish Sony came up with a PHA-4 already.


----------



## darmccombs

Umwelt said:


> Thanks for sharing your initial impressions!
> 
> It's interesting that the MDR and TA were basically designed for each other, but you don't find the MDR to sound that special on it compared to another amp. The IER came a year or so after, right? I'd imagine they expected the IER to be used mostly on the go, so they may have tuned it more with their portable devices, but it's a nice surprise that it works as well (if not better) with the TA.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback.  And please don't put a lot of weight in my initial impressions.  I'm not even putting much weight in them yet.  LOL

The RME has a very good EQ and terrific, detailed, DAC.  It also has similar output power to the TA, so it's a good competitor for the TA.  The RME helps tame bad dips and peaks in the frequency response.

I am surprised like you are, that the Sony and MDR doesn't pair up better.  I want to give this comparison more time though, and try the DSD and other settings.

On the other hand, the IER matched up easily with the TA.  The soundstage is incredible.

I hope people aren't reading this and think that I'm not happy with the TA.  It is doing a lot of things right.  I'm just surprised at how well the RME is doing in comparision, especially with the MDR.


----------



## Redcarmoose

adrianm said:


> How would you guys compare the IER Z1R with the MDR Z1R? and how big is the difference with the IER using it with the TA vs one of their walkmans? WM1Z vs A vs
> NW-ZX300?
> I'm starting to see the value of listening to music away from my desk



Using the TA with firmware 1.03 and the Cradle and AQCarbon, I simply would listen with the IER-Z1R, then take the plug out put it into the 1Z I was using as a source and turn of the TA to activate the 1Z (firmware 3.02 “J” region) amp.

Really the two are sonically very close. I use that definition to illustrate musical enjoyment and contentment. Basically if something is great, even if it is just so very slightly different; it’s a wash. 

Deep down I feel the TA is just slightly technically better. It’s really small but the imaging is clearer and the background blacker. The interestingness was the fact that some notes were placed in slighly different places. So it’s small and almost not noticeable but things are arranged slightly different. I had to go back and forth a bunch of times on the same song. I also chose a song that was very simplistic with just a set of drums at the start and would evolve into singing. So it was the exactly the file played. I have no tester to equalize volume between the two amps but used my ear.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Using the TA with firmware 1.03 and the Cradle and AQCarbon, I simply would listen with the IER-Z1R, then take the plug out put it into the 1Z I was using as a source and turn of the TA to activate the 1Z (firmware 3.02 “J” region) amp.
> 
> Really the two are sonically very close. I use that definition to illustrate musical enjoyment and contentment. Basically if something is great, even if it is just so very slightly different; it’s a wash.
> 
> Deep down I feel the TA is just slightly technically better. It’s really small but the imaging is clearer and the background blacker. The interestingness was the fact that some notes were placed in slighly different places. So it’s small and almost not noticeable but things are arranged slightly different. I had to go back and forth a bunch of times on the same song. I also chose a song that was very simplistic with just a set of drums at the start and would evolve into singing. So it was the exactly the file played. I have no tester to equalize volume between the two amps but used my ear.


I think you indirectly answered my question. Having the IER with the 1Z means the TA isn’t needed, even with the 1AM2, right?


----------



## Redcarmoose

adrianm said:


> How would you guys compare the IER Z1R with the MDR Z1R? and how big is the difference with the IER using it with the TA vs one of their walkmans? WM1Z vs A vs
> NW-ZX300?
> I'm starting to see the value of listening to music away from my desk



The IER-Z1R came later so in many ways it gets thought of as more advanced. Though it’s really apples and oranges. I have given up trying to decide which is better. Also take note people are normally biased to one process or another. IEMs are a different methodology and place the sound inside and outside your head. The generalization has been that the IER does mids better than the MDR? I’m not sure I agree? Also if I’ve been using the IER for a long time and switch to the MDR the MDR seems to effortlessly do more; having the ability to make the music more real. At times when they sound best to me they actually can come off totally mid-centric; which they laughably are not. The IER has a more intense bass. The IER has a different more finite treble; does that make it better? So even though I’m more of an IEM person I defend the MDR; yet I listen to it less. I purchased it as I didn’t want to miss-out and it’s nice. Maybe the best thing about having the MDR with the Kimber cable and TA is being able to not question the sound. It’s unquestionably Sony.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> I think you indirectly answered my question. Having the IER with the 1Z means the TA isn’t needed, even with the 1AM2, right?


Your question I was about to answer.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Your question I was about to answer.


Go ahead. Patience is a virtue. Thank you


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> @Redcarmoose @nc8000
> 
> Do you guys see any benefit in getting the TA with the current cans I have listed in my signature? I don’t plan on going high price for end game as it seems like the 1AM2 and WH-1000XM3 are my end game over ear cans. IER-Z1R will remain my ultimate treasured audio item regardless of what I have. I did sample it with the MDR-Z1R and saw no major audio difference other than the TA adds the extra juice and you don’t need to raise the volume high to get some good sound.





Gamerlingual said:


> I think you indirectly answered my question. Having the IER with the 1Z means the TA isn’t needed, even with the 1AM2, right?



You have to realize I have not heard those headphones. I did hear the 1000XM3 but only for three seconds. I would say using the IER-Z1R and 1Z is spectacular and while slightly bettered by using the TA it’s something that’s not worth the expenditure.

On the other hand if someone had the MDR-Z1R the TA is almost mandatory? We talked about how the MDR is pretty great from the 1Z but the TA brings a damping factor which gets the MDR out of the woods. With the TA the changes in comparison are a cleaner low end. Better overall imaging and better separation. There are those people though that have the TA and 1Z and prefer the 1Z with the MDR-Z1R. I would suspect that they are looking for something in the tone and it would center around the bigger treble response from the 1Z. The 1Z can be looked at as slightly brighter, even with the TA on 1.03 firmware which is slightly brighter. IMO

Also this is dependent on both music genre and volume desired; meaning people who listen on extreme low volume are not going to notice the MDR damping artifacts and much with the IZ.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> You have to realize I have not heard those headphones. I did hear the 1000XM3 but only for three seconds. I would say using the IER-Z1R and 1Z is spectacular and while slightly bettered by using the TA it’s something that’s not worth the expenditure.
> 
> On the other hand if someone had the MDR-Z1R the TA is almost mandatory? We talked about how the MDR is pretty great from the 1Z but the TA brings a damping factor which gets the MDR out of the woods. With the TA the changes in comparison are a cleaner low end. Better overall imaging and better separation. There are those people though that have the TA and 1Z and prefer the 1Z with the MDR-Z1R. I would suspect that they are looking for something in the tone and it would center around the bigger treble response from the 1Z. The 1Z can be looked at as slightly brighter, even with the TA on 1.03 firmware which is slightly brighter. IMO
> 
> Also this is dependent on both music genre and volume desired; meaning people who listen on extreme low volume are not going to notice the MDR damping artifacts and much with the IZ.


Perhaps getting the TA at a closeout price in the future would be a cool idea. Under $1,000 may sound unrealistic, but would sound like cool toy to have. But if not needed at the current price, refraining is no problem at all. But as you said, the 1Z is perhaps like a mini version of the TA, even though playing with the TA it has so many cool functions and it was fun to use.


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## Redcarmoose (Jun 12, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> Perhaps getting the TA at a closeout price in the future would be a cool idea. Under $1,000 may sound unrealistic, but would sound like cool toy to have. But if not needed at the current price, refraining is no problem at all. But as you said, the 1Z is perhaps like a mini version of the TA, even though playing with the TA it has so many cool functions and it was fun to use.



Besides the slightly different tone it really depends on the user how valuable the TA would be. Meaning some are going to fully enjoy the TA from a media server. Many are going to take advantage of it’s 5 outputs  for headphones besides it’s RCA preamp function.

One of my gross oversights is I leave DSEE HX and DSD RE on all the time on the TA and leave the 1Z as direct. So I may be hearing the effects on the TA as well?


----------



## Umwelt

A key missing feature in the TA is recalling separate volume levels for each output. I already have a bunch of different balanced and unbalanced phones plugged on most, and each requires significantly different dB levels. It's a pain to adjust volume manually when switching between phones. Would be so easy to implement. Lazy Sony, they thought it was enough to make it sound amazing!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Perhaps getting the TA at a closeout price in the future would be a cool idea. Under $1,000 may sound unrealistic, but would sound like cool toy to have. But if not needed at the current price, refraining is no problem at all. But as you said, the 1Z is perhaps like a mini version of the TA, even though playing with the TA it has so many cool functions and it was fun to use.



Probably one of the biggest values for some will be the TA zero delay. It can’t be good to have a delay on the 1Z for movies and games, using it strictly as a DAC?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Probably one of the biggest values for some will be the TA zero delay. It can’t be good to have a delay on the 1Z for movies and games, using it strictly as a DAC?


Good point. Since stimulus money is coming, maybe use it on the TA instead of headphones? Would that be a more sensible purchase? Well, maybe nothing about this hobby is sensible


----------



## Damz87

Gamerlingual said:


> Good point. Since stimulus money is coming, maybe use it on the TA instead of headphones? Would that be a more sensible purchase? Well, maybe nothing about this hobby is sensible



Didn’t you A/B test the TA & PHA-2A and chose the PHA-2A?


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


> The TA is a really nice piece of kit and it works great with both Z1R however if I had gotten the IER together with the 1Z 3 1/2 years ago and had 1TB microSD been available I doubt I would ever have bought the TA and the MDR, 1Z plus IER would have been end game for all my needs. That said it is nice to have a dedicated home rig with a source that has storage enough for all my music in hires format (on the 1TB in the 1Z I can only fit it all downsampled to 16/44 or 16/48) and also being able to connect my tv via optical to the TA and a big full size phone does things the IER can’t


When you listen to hi-res format, where do you purchase your music from? Or do you stream hi-res audio?


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> When you listen to hi-res format, where do you purchase your music from? Or do you stream hi-res audio?



I buy from many different sites, probably at least 10. These are some of them


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## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Perhaps getting the TA at a closeout price in the future would be a cool idea. Under $1,000 may sound unrealistic, but would sound like cool toy to have. But if not needed at the current price, refraining is no problem at all. But as you said, the 1Z is perhaps like a mini version of the TA, even though playing with the TA it has so many cool functions and it was fun to use.


They don't come around often but there are deals to be had.You can have mine  in a month or 2 if i decide to get the Dave


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## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> They don't come around often but there are deals to be had.You can have mine  in a month or 2 if i decide to get the Dave


For how much?


----------



## adrianm

No idea at the moment,but i just got it a month ago.Still trying to decide whether it's worth the price hike to upgrade with this uncertainty.But if i do end up giving it up i'm sure we can work something out.I was going to return it to amazon initially,but i only have till the end of this month and it feels a bit rushed.


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> No idea at the moment,but i just got it a month ago.Still trying to decide whether it's worth the price hike to upgrade with this uncertainty.But if i do end up giving it up i'm sure we can work something out.I was going to return it to amazon initially,but i only have till the end of this month and it feels a bit rushed.


Ok. Works for me. If nothing goes through, no problem as well


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Good point. Since stimulus money is coming, maybe use it on the TA instead of headphones? Would that be a more sensible purchase? Well, maybe nothing about this hobby is sensible



Well, you have the PHA-2A isn’t that a DAC with zero delay?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Well, you have the PHA-2A isn’t that a DAC with zero delay?


Will test in a few


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Ok. Works for me. If nothing goes through, no problem as well


I usually keep an eye out for deals, if i find anything in the mean time i'll pm you,you're us based,right?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Good point. Since stimulus money is coming, maybe use it on the TA instead of headphones? Would that be a more sensible purchase? Well, maybe nothing about this hobby is sensible


The reason someone would buy a TA is because they needed to drive full size headphones. But take note; it’s not the most powerful and will not drive many. It’s made to go with Z7 and MDR-Z1R. Also it does so well with the IER-Z1R, but maybe not mandatory? 

Someone would buy it because they love the Sony sound. They want all the outputs and love the sound of the DAC/amp technology. They may admire the build and looks? They like the DSD upsampling and ability to use as a preamp with a power amplifier 2 channel speaker system. Also the fact that not many (or any) headphone amps have all those outputs.


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> I usually keep an eye out for deals, if i find anything in the mean time i'll pm you,you're us based,right?


Im close to Tokyo in Japan now but my hometown is Los Angeles. Can’t find deals in Japan as of now


----------



## adrianm

Has anyone tried the Lcd-i4 with the TA? or compared them to the Ier z1r?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> The reason someone would buy a TA is because they needed to drive full size headphones. But take note; it’s not the most powerful and will not drive many. It’s made to go with Z7 and MDR-Z1R. Also it does so well with the IER-Z1R, but maybe not mandatory?
> 
> Someone would buy it because they love the Sony sound. They want all the outputs and love the sound of the DAC/amp technology. They may admire the build and looks? They like the DSD upsampling and ability to use as a preamp with a power amplifier 2 channel speaker system. Also the fact that not many (or any) headphone amps have all those outputs.


Well, Sony has a headphone amp App but it doesn't work with the PHA-2A and there is no delay. So both a positive and negative thing. On a very strange observation, the PHA-2A can be used in Amp mode AND charge when using either my 1Z/1A and my iPhone 11 Pro, but not with my PC. The TA obviously requires no batteries. Am I missing something here?


----------



## Gamerlingual

I need to look into that DSD upsampling a lot more. How big of a difference is that up sampling?


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## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> I need to look into that DSD upsampling a lot more. How big of a difference is that up sampling?



It’s one setting that is really does something. Makes the music more lush without sacrificing detail.


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## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> It’s one setting that is really does something. Makes the music more lush without sacrificing detail.


I’m going to Akihabara on Monday to meet with my private client, an English student and then going back to E-Earphone to do more testing. What equipment do you recommend I bring to try out as well as settings on the TA? I’m shooting at least for the 4.4mm balanced mode to try and I’ll be able to sample it for about 3 hours. Also, what should I ask them to test while I’m there? Perhaps a played out pun, but I’m all ears for suggestions.


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> I’m going to Akihabara on Monday to meet with my private client, an English student and then going back to E-Earphone to do more testing. What equipment do you recommend I bring to try out as well as settings on the TA? I’m shooting at least for the 4.4mm balanced mode to try and I’ll be able to sample it for about 3 hours. Also, what should I ask them to test while I’m there? Perhaps a played out pun, but I’m all ears for suggestions.


MDR Z1R with the TA and the TA vs a Dave


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## Gamerlingual (Jun 13, 2020)

adrianm said:


> MDR Z1R with the TA and the TA vs a Dave


Already tried with the MDR-Z1R. Didn’t see any improvement from the 1Z

Edit: I take that back. Haven't tried it with the upsampling and maybe I should try different gains, etc. What other modes?


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Already tried with the MDR-Z1R. Didn’t see any improvement from the 1Z
> 
> Edit: I take that back. Haven't tried it with the upsampling and maybe I should try different gains, etc. What other modes?


Did you try it with a balanced cable?


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## Redcarmoose (Jun 13, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> I’m going to Akihabara on Monday to meet with my private client, an English student and then going back to E-Earphone to do more testing. What equipment do you recommend I bring to try out as well as settings on the TA? I’m shooting at least for the 4.4mm balanced mode to try and I’ll be able to sample it for about 3 hours. Also, what should I ask them to test while I’m there? Perhaps a played out pun, but I’m all ears for suggestions.



Obviously we are all here due to the little details right? Meaning it’s the small changes that are of value. Personally I can listen to $29 earbuds from my iPod (out and about only ) and get into the music; because it’s all about the music. But.....this gear (1Z/TA/ IER/MDR) in the end makes the experience more profound.

So what I’m saying is; you already have a 1Z? How much more profound can it be? As far as I’m concerned these settings are small changes. Your just curious because the 1Z does not have DSD upsampling.

Curiosity Killed The Cat.

What happens to us is we get caught up in a contest. At times that contest is needed as it’s finding an audiophile tone that allows us to listen to music and not question the equipment. That’s really it. But what escalates stuff is, due to better SQ getting more enjoyable we think 10% more SQ will make the music 10% more enjoyable. There is no way that can happen.

The flip side is the buying curve; the product lust and curiosity. The cycle of endorphins which take place with a purchase that eventually goes away and requires a new acquisition to get a fix from. That cycle is dangerous because it’s not based on reality but delusions; delusions that the sound is going to get better. In this loop even different tone can get addressed as better, when it’s not better, just different.

The TA (as talked about before) is more of an investment for someone who wants the MDR-Z1R. I would suggest bringing the IER-Z1R only because they are detailed and may show you what the upsampling does. But note too from the past posts; everything matters. The power supply to the TA. The way the source is hooked to the TA. What we truly try to do is optimize everything as far as we can per our budget. Even the tracks you listen to should be ones you know and are the best sounding to you. But in reality..............this ending compared to what you have...........it’s maybe going to be a 5% or 10% improvement at best, maybe 4%. Lol

But if you find something about the overall tone that you like your improvements will seem like more as your getting alignment to your desired tone. Tone seems to take preference over technicality. Not to sound jaded, but I could never really know about gear until I was home with it for a week. I could never really learn that much in shops. I could tell if the product was totally not my thing, but (in public) I could never figure stuff out well.

It’s been mentioned that the qdc Anole VX is really good with the TA.


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> Did you try it with a balanced cable?


Only with the 4.4mm balanced. I didn't use the the 3.5mm.



Redcarmoose said:


> Obviously we are all here due to the little details right? Meaning it’s the small changes that are of value. Personally I can listen to $29 earbuds from my iPod (out and about only ) and get into the music; because it’s all about the music. But.....this gear (1Z/TA/ IER/MDR) in the end makes the experience more profound.
> 
> So what I’m saying is; you already have a 1Z? How much more profound can it be? As far as I’m concerned these settings are small changes. Your just curious because the 1Z does not have DSD upsampling.
> 
> ...


Another way to look at it is why waste my time? I have all the high end audio needed, so why go to the TA step? Just set back and enjoy the 1Z and IER combo or PHA-2A with the IER, etc. It's all there plus with the 1A, I swap between players after charging the batteries so I can have the next one ready to play when the other charges. Perhaps a spoiled brat is what I am


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## Redcarmoose (Jun 13, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> Only with the 4.4mm balanced. I didn't use the the 3.5mm.
> 
> 
> Another way to look at it is why waste my time? I have all the high end audio needed, so why go to the TA step? Just set back and enjoy the 1Z and IER combo or PHA-2A with the IER, etc. It's all there plus with the 1A, I swap between players after charging the batteries so I can have the next one ready to play when the other charges. Perhaps a spoiled brat is what I am



People that collect stuff obtain a comfort from collecting. It makes them seem secure. They use words like need instead of want. There may be never enough. They base their self worth on materialism. Shallow and fun at the same time. Probably better than drink and drugs?

The flip side is enjoying life with luxury.....right? It’s an obsession and a hobby.....it’s a distraction too. Hopefully we all feel lucky and grateful to have what we have in life....I do. I’m pretty spoiled, I’m sure of it.


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## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> People that collect stuff obtain a comfort from collecting. It makes them seem secure. They use words like need instead of want. There may be never enough. They base their self worth on materialism. Shallow and fun at the same time. Probably better than drink and drugs?
> 
> The flip side is enjoying life with luxury.....right? It’s an obsession and a hobby.....it’s a distraction too. Hopefully we all feel lucky and grateful to have what we have in life....I do.


Well, that's partially the reason I was looking into the TA. I didn't buy any end game cans and I found out I was getting the 100,000 yen stimulus package about 3 days ago. So I figured go for cans or the TA? So far, cans nope. If the TA is meh, then save the money even though I have money saved.


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## nc8000

Redcarmoose said:


> People that collect stuff obtain a comfort from collecting. It makes them seem secure. They use words like need instead of want. There may be never enough. They base their self worth on materialism. Shallow and fun at the same time. Probably better than drink and drugs?
> 
> The flip side is enjoying life with luxury.....right? It’s an obsession and a hobby.....it’s a distraction too. Hopefully we all feel lucky and grateful to have what we have in life....I do. I’m pretty spoiled, I’m sure of it.



This is true and I’m sure I would still thourughly ejoy my music with much cheaper and humbler equipment


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## Redcarmoose (Jun 13, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> This is true and I’m sure I would still thourughly ejoy my music with much cheaper and humbler equipment



I spent most of my money on audio equipment. The rest I waisted on important stuff.........I didn’t even really want. That’s why I don’t have a nice watch? I even have a pool I don’t swim in?


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## Gamerlingual (Jun 13, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


> I spent most of my money on audio equipment. The rest I waisted on important stuff.........I didn’t even really want. That’s why I don’t have a nice watch? I even have a pool I don’t swim in?


Not saying anyone is assuming or that is how I am labeled, but if I give off an impression that perhaps I don't appreciate, it's not the case. I can't control what others think, but all I simply am very curious and am hungry to learn more about the hobby. That's why I haven't bought anything. There's much to explore and I do take suggestions to go out an explore and take advantage of Japan's audio setups. I am lucky and will continue to be curious as I like learning new things.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 13, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> Not saying anyone is assuming or that is how I am labeled, but if I give off an impression that perhaps I don't appreciate, it's not the case. I can't control what others think, but all I simply am very curious and am hungry to learn more about the hobby. That's why I haven't bought anything. There's much to explore and I do take suggestions to go out an explore and take advantage of Japan's audio setups. I am lucky and will continue to be curious as I like learning new things.



We are simply both saying that we have (and you will someday) spend a lot. But.......hindsight is 20/20. Meaning your probably young, I’m old. So when you look back, you spent more than you thought you would. I’m not bragging just stating a point. But it’s fun. It is enjoyable. I had a friend who would spend 7K in Vegas in a couple hours. I thought it was crazy? We don’t probably spend money like that but we are also crazy in our own way. IMO


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> We are simply both saying that we have (and you will someday) spend a lot. But.......hindsight is 20/20. Meaning your probably young, I’m old. So when you look back, you spent more than you thought you would. I’m not bragging just stating a point. But it’s fun. It is enjoyable. I had a friend who would spend 7K in Vegas in a couple hours. I thought it was crazy? We don’t probably spend money like that but we are also crazy in our own way. IMO


Yea. That’s why I try to find used deals. Minimize the impact and I figured hey, I did some good shopping with what I found. The MDR-Z1R and the TA havent landed on that great price reach yet. Under $1,000 is a huge stretch, but in the meantime, learn other companies’ sound signatures. Most say the journey is more important. So far, so good


----------



## Umwelt

Gamerlingual said:


> Yea. That’s why I try to find used deals. Minimize the impact and I figured hey, I did some good shopping with what I found. The MDR-Z1R and the TA havent landed on that great price reach yet. Under $1,000 is a huge stretch, but in the meantime, learn other companies’ sound signatures. Most say the journey is more important. So far, so good



I remember seeing a used TA+MDR-z1r+kimber balanced cable combo sell on mercari for around 250,000 yen, which is not a bad deal. Probably can do even better on local shops over there.


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 13, 2020)

Umwelt said:


> I remember seeing a used TA+MDR-z1r+kimber balanced cable combo sell on mercari for around 250,000 yen, which is not a bad deal. Probably can do even better on local shops over there.


Yup and I was a month late before that happened. But who says it can’t happen again? Not a bad idea as a combo. I bought my 1A from Mercari for 80,000 yen and it included a screen protector and case plus it was mint condition. Hmm 🤔


----------



## Lookout57

Redcarmoose said:


> Using the TA with firmware 1.03 and the Cradle and AQCarbon, I simply would listen with the IER-Z1R, then take the plug out put it into the 1Z I was using as a source and turn of the TA to activate the 1Z (firmware 3.02 “J” region) amp.
> 
> Really the two are sonically very close. I use that definition to illustrate musical enjoyment and contentment. Basically if something is great, even if it is just so very slightly different; it’s a wash.
> 
> Deep down I feel the TA is just slightly technically better. It’s really small but the imaging is clearer and the background blacker. The interestingness was the fact that some notes were placed in slighly different places. So it’s small and almost not noticeable but things are arranged slightly different. I had to go back and forth a bunch of times on the same song. I also chose a song that was very simplistic with just a set of drums at the start and would evolve into singing. So it was the exactly the file played. I have no tester to equalize volume between the two amps but used my ear.


I agree and have the same experience.

However, where I think the TA surpasses the 1Z, is when you use DSD Remastering on the TA.


----------



## gsiu33

Redcarmoose said:


> The Coaxial is by far the least quality input in my experience with the TA. They say optical is better, though haven’t tried?


Yes, optical is better than coaxial. I am using AQ Carbon Optical to connect the CD player to TA, though limit to 24,96, more than enough for red book CD. It sounds pretty good.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Lookout57 said:


> I agree and have the same experience.
> 
> However, where I think the TA surpasses the 1Z, is when you use DSD Remastering on the TA.


I need to put into perspective that the 1Z is about another 50,000 to 70,000 yen more expensive than the TA. But the TA runs at the same used price of the 1Z I got for 170,000 yen. It’s going to be hard to reach below that 100,000 yen threshold


----------



## Gadget67

Redcarmoose said:


> The reason someone would buy a TA is because they needed to drive full size headphones. But take note; it’s not the most powerful and will not drive many. It’s made to go with Z7 and MDR-Z1R. Also it does so well with the IER-Z1R, but maybe not mandatory?
> 
> Someone would buy it because they love the Sony sound. They want all the outputs and love the sound of the DAC/amp technology. They may admire the build and looks? They like the DSD upsampling and ability to use as a preamp with a power amplifier 2 channel speaker system. Also the fact that not many (or any) headphone amps have all those outputs.


You read my checklist!  But, seriously the TA Is (in my opinion) the best do everything device out there.  I have been most recently using it as the DAC for my Phonitor 2 headphone amp but just replaced it with a Focal Arche yesterday.  Now I can use the TA as a poor man’s DPM-Z1 by simply moving it where I’m using it, plugging it in and connecting the WM1Z and headphones especially when it’s hot and humid and I can retreat to an air conditioned room.  Obviously not as convenient (or perhaps as good) as a DPM-Z1 but I’ll suffer through it.  I’m just beginning to evaluate the Arche so much too early to even comment on it.


----------



## Gamerlingual

The one headset I’m surprised that hasn’t been mentioned with the TA is the Z7M2. I found a new pair for 68,000 yen. For that price, the headset seems appealing. But I’ve heard people say the price has gone as low as $380 USD. How well does the Z7M2 match with the TA?


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> The one headset I’m surprised that hasn’t been mentioned with the TA is the Z7M2. I found a new pair for 68,000 yen. For that price, the headset seems appealing. But I’ve heard people say the price has gone as low as $380 USD. How well does the Z7M2 match with the TA?


You mentioned you listened to the Mdr Z1r's, why did you decide against getting one since you're looking into the Sony ecosystem?


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 13, 2020)

adrianm said:


> You mentioned you listened to the Mdr Z1r's, why did you decide against getting one since you're looking into the Sony ecosystem?


Bass was too heavy and treble was bouncing all over the place without any consistency. The IER-Z1R checks everyone as I love. Go fig


----------



## Umwelt

I'd be puzzled to hear of someone who didn't enjoy the MDR-Z1R but went on to like the Z7M2. But everything's possible when it comes to taste!


----------



## adrianm

yeah..i love my Z1R's so much i'd rather get rid of the TA after i heard how they sounded with Dave.I thought Guttenberg was wrong when he said they could benefit from a better source than the TA,before i heard it myself.


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> yeah..i love my Z1R's so much i'd rather get rid of the TA after i heard how they sounded with Dave.I thought Guttenberg was wrong when he said they could benefit from a better source than the TA,before i heard it myself.


So you just got the Dave and sampled it and decided to scrap the TA?


----------



## Umwelt

The Dave must be something special if it can outdo the TA with the Z1R to that extent. Too bad it looks like crap, and lacks more balanced output connectors.

The TA still amazes me as almost unique in being a good-looking amp. Pretty much all other high-end amps look like nerdy toys, or stuff that a cheap aluminum factory put together in a week.


----------



## adrianm

Didn’t get it yet,took my TA and a/b’d it with z1r against hugo tt2 +/- mscaler and Dave.Can’t get it out of my head since


----------



## adrianm

Yes ,the Ta is great,on par with tt2 + mscaler from my pov.Dave is a whole different beast though


----------



## JerryHead

I’m forgetting what I was told, if I was, but how does the TA pair up with the HD800S in general?


----------



## adrianm (Jun 13, 2020)

Umwelt said:


> The Dave must be something special if it can outdo the TA with the Z1R to that extent. Too bad it looks like crap, and lacks more balanced output connectors.
> 
> The TA still amazes me as almost unique in being a good-looking amp. Pretty much all other high-end amps look like nerdy toys, or stuff that a cheap aluminum factory put together in a week.


Agreed,it does look like crap.Black is a bit better.But no new one on the horizon apparently


----------



## adrianm (Jun 13, 2020)

Umwelt said:


> and lacks more balanced output connectors.


That's why i opted for the TA instead of other Chord Dacs.While the TA had soundstage balanced vs the chords single ended (the TT2 without Mscaler for example),Dave closed that gap and the instrument separation and layering  was so good it was just ridiculous.I'm sure i wouldn't miss balanced,ev.en though my Sony Kimber cable hasn't even made it through customs yet,i'll have to get rid of it along with the TA.I see the only Sony Kimber unbalanced version is either 1.2 or single ended version is a 3.0M one.Curious if the cable makes as much difference on the unbalanced one as well.


----------



## Fsilva

darmccombs said:


> Well, I just got the TA yesterday, so I am still adjusting of course.  I currently have (2) RME ADI-2 dac/amp, that has EQ, and similar amp power output.  In comparison, the TA is a breeze to configure.
> 
> Overall, the TA has a huge soundstage and the mid/high end really open up and a re clear expansive.  The RME is more toanaly balanced, IMO, with a little more lower bass range grunt.
> 
> ...


I´ve sold my TA in the beginning of the year, after getting an RME ADI-2 DAC fs....


----------



## darmccombs

adrianm said:


> I see the only Sony Kimber unbalanced version is either 1.2 or single ended version is a 3.0M one.Curious if the cable makes as much difference on the unbalanced one as well.


I have the 3 kimber cables and may be able to help, but I'm not sure what you are asking.  Can you re-phrase?


----------



## adrianm

Would you say the improvement vs stock cables is the same for the unbalanced versions as for the balanced cable?


----------



## darmccombs

Fsilva said:


> I´ve sold my TA in the beginning of the year, after getting an RME ADI-2 DAC fs....


I only got a little bit of time to listen to the TA so far, and have done some A/B with the RME, using the IER-Z1R and the MDR-Z1R.  I will be keeping 2 of my 3 dac/amps.  3 dac/amps enter, 2 dac/amps leave (Thunderdome).  I currently have 2 RME and the TA.  Depending on one's use case, I could see a person going either way (RME or TA).

The TA really seems to make the IER shine, but I got the IER for more mobile uses.  I can't carry a TA around.  LOL

I do think the RME DAC is a little better than the TA, and I think the TA amp is better than the RME.  Maybe I need to end up with an RME and a Phonitor in one of my 2 systems.

I think the TA does make the MDR-Z1R also sound a little better than the RME, but with this headphone, the TA and RME battle is much closer.  Which I keep may come down to my use cases.  If the TA made the MDR sound as spectacular as the IER, this would be an easy decision.  I see that some of the folks here do think the TA makes the MDR sing. I'll give things a little more time and keep playing with the setup.


----------



## Umwelt

BTW, how do you check the firmware version currently installed on the TA?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Anyone else with suggestions on what cans with what gains or modes to use tomorrow when I check the TA again? I’ll use with the MDR-Z1R again. Any other cans suggestions as I’ll use in balanced mode. Might try the ATH-AP2000Ti as well


----------



## darmccombs

Gamerlingual said:


> Anyone else with suggestions on what cans with what gains or modes to use tomorrow when I check the TA again? I’ll use with the MDR-Z1R again. Any other cans suggestions as I’ll use in balanced mode. Might try the ATH-AP2000Ti as well


Maybe try the Focal Stellia.  It is another great closed back that some folks like with the TA.


----------



## Gadget67

Umwelt said:


> BTW, how do you check the firmware version currently installed on the TA?


Go to the Sony support area.  The install program shows the current version.  Here is a link for the Mac:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads/W0011088

here is the windows link:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads/W0011087


----------



## Gadget67

darmccombs said:


> Maybe try the Focal Stellia.  It is another great closed back that some folks like with the TA.


Agree completely on the Stellia.  My pair sounds fabulous on the TA.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Gadget67 said:


> Agree completely on the Stellia.  My pair sounds fabulous on the TA.


Roger and thank you both


----------



## Gadget67

So, just connected my TA To my NAD amp which is powering a pair of Totem Arros and a Totem Storm sub.  Wasn’t really sure what to expect; I’ve been using a Gungir DAC with (I thought) good results.  Turns out the TA takes it to a whole new level!  I didn’t realize that 44.1kHz/16 bit upscaled to 352.8kHz/32 bit would sound sooo much better.  In a word—spectacular!


----------



## JerryHead

Is the TA not powerful enough to adequately power the HD800S?  To get the most out of these headphones?


----------



## Gadget67

JerryHead said:


> Is the TA not powerful enough to adequately power the HD800S?  To get the most out of these headphones?


I think the TA works best with lower impedance headphones.  The HD800S is 300 Ohms so the TA might not be the best choice.


----------



## JerryHead (Jun 14, 2020)

Gadget67 said:


> I think the TA works best with lower impedance headphones.  The HD800S is 300 Ohms so the TA might not be the best choice.


You may be right.  I'm wondering if the TA is even sufficient to power the 150 ohm Focal Clear.  I'm listening to the Clear and feeling like it could use a little more power.  The dilemma I'm running into is, I can't tolerate the heat build up around the ears that closed-back phones cause me.  I end up tearing them off in the 15-30 minutes after I put them on.  So, that rules out all the Sony headphones.  And the other open back phones I'm looking at need a more powerful amp.  The exception are the heavier weight (1lb +) open-back phones which I find uncomfortable as well due to the weight.  And i really do like the Sony signature of the TA.  I may just settle on the IER-Z1R, but was hoping on finding some headphones.  I'd be interested in any suggestions if anyone has any ideas.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Umwelt said:


> BTW, how do you check the firmware version currently installed on the TA?



Also someone else here just hooked their TA to a computer and it came up with zero Sony firmware installed. I’m going to try and figure out how.


----------



## Umwelt

Did any firmware updates introduce actual changes to SQ or processing? At least the last one only seems to be small bug fixes.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Umwelt said:


> BTW, how do you check the firmware version currently installed on the TA?





Redcarmoose said:


> Also someone else here just hooked their TA to a computer and it came up with zero Sony firmware installed. I’m going to try and figure out how.


Interestingly I couldn’t find the TA software identified in either the MacBook or Windows 10 PC. What did come up was the Windows drivers, and their edition. But nothing to say TA Firmware 1.03 without downloading the Sony Firmware Updates and going forward with a PC only. 

I don’t use computers for the TA but have noticed bit-rate notifications for both MacBook and Windows. It seems with Windows the TA would have a bitrate bottle neck if someone just went and plugged and played?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Umwelt said:


> Did any firmware updates introduce actual changes to SQ or processing? At least the last one only seems to be small bug fixes.



I sincerely believe when I updated the sound of the TA changed. The firmware installer will show you your current firmware your on. I think mine was on 1.02 when I updated. The issue is only 1.00 and 1.03 seem to be available to download from Sony. This is typical as Sony is known for pulling older firmware when a new edition comes out. I did post links for 1.02 and 1.01 just a few pages back, but have not been able to get the links to work. But primarily on one set of IEMs the change from 1.02 to 1.03 was very noticeable, other IEMs and headphones, not that much but slightly. To me 1.03 makes the TA more bright and not as muddy. Also if you read, yes there was a fix from the first 1.00 firmware. Some ability to recognize certain bit rates.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 14, 2020)

Umwelt said:


> Did any firmware updates introduce actual changes to SQ or processing? At least the last one only seems to be small bug fixes.



Also take note that every Walkman firmware changes the sound. This was never confirmed by Sony but fully noted by most Walkman users. So it’s no surprise that the Walkmans got brighter that also new TA firmware would result in brighter tone. Yet the suspected fact has not been confirmed by the group.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Also take note that every Walkman firmware changes the sound. This was never confirmed by Sony but fully noted by most Walkman users. So it’s no surprise that the Walkmans got brighter that also new TA firmware would result in brighter tone. Yet the suspected fact has not been confirmed by the group.


I thought there was a software amp app that came with the TA. Didn't work for the PHA-2A on Windows


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> I thought there was a software amp app that came with the TA. Didn't work for the PHA-2A on Windows



https://www.sony-asia.com/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/pha-2a/downloads


From the updates, it look s like only drivers for Mac and Windows. Though you may want to ask in the product thread here at Head-Fi?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> https://www.sony-asia.com/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/pha-2a/downloads
> 
> 
> From the updates, it look s like only drivers for Mac and Windows. Though you may want to ask in the product thread here at Head-Fi?


I’ll download these first. Thank you!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> I’ll download these first. Thank you!



Yes, I didn’t even know Sony made a hi-res and DSD file player for MacBooks! 
https://www.sony-asia.com/electroni...eadphone-amplifiers/pha-2a/downloads/00014880


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> Agree completely on the Stellia.  My pair sounds fabulous on the TA.


I take it you pulled the trigger on a Stellia + Arche combo? How does it sound compared to the TA/Stellia MDR Z1r/TA?


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Anyone else with suggestions on what cans with what gains or modes to use tomorrow when I check the TA again? I’ll use with the MDR-Z1R again. Any other cans suggestions as I’ll use in balanced mode. Might try the ATH-AP2000Ti as well


After fiddling around i prefer the Z1r  in balanced mode with low gain ,dsd remastering on and everything else off.


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> After fiddling around i prefer the Z1r  in balanced mode with low gain ,dsd remastering on and everything else off.



That’s also how I run my setup


----------



## Damz87

nc8000 said:


> That’s also how I run my setup



Same here. I feel like the difference between low and high gain is pretty minimal on the TA. I can’t really hear any difference in dynamics, just a -10db loudness reduction.

DSD remastering on, DSEE HX off, happy days


----------



## adrianm

I feel like low gain sounds a bit cleaner for some reason


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> I feel like low gain sounds a bit cleaner for some reason


I wonder if that also applies to the 1A and 1Z


----------



## candlejack

Gadget67 said:


> I think the TA works best with lower impedance headphones.  The HD800S is 300 Ohms so the TA might not be the best choice.


It can get the HD600 (also 300 Ohm) to very loud levels, but whether it gets _the best _out of them I cannot say.


----------



## Umwelt

Redcarmoose said:


> Also take note that every Walkman firmware changes the sound. This was never confirmed by Sony but fully noted by most Walkman users. So it’s no surprise that the Walkmans got brighter that also new TA firmware would result in brighter tone. Yet the suspected fact has not been confirmed by the group.



It would be pretty annoying if new firmwares make undocumented changes to the sound. Some users may be used to the prior sound and even prefer it, so the change may not be welcome for some especially if unexpected. Not sure if it's possible to rollback firmwares by installing a previous one on these Sony devices though. But if this is true then Sony is just not posting proper change logs.


----------



## JerryHead

candlejack said:


> It can get the HD600 (also 300 Ohm) to very loud levels, but whether it gets _the best _out of them I cannot say.


This is what I'm wondering. If the HD800S isn't maximized by the TA, is it even worth purchasing for this amp?  Some say the HD800S is powered sufficiently even by the WM1A.  But, the question is, what is subjectively meant by sufficiently?  If one were to spend $1500 on headphones, I would think they would want them to perform pretty close to what they're capable of.


----------



## adrianm

I take it you're considering an HD800s? Why not a Stellia?


----------



## Gadget67

JerryHead said:


> You may be right.  I'm wondering if the TA is even sufficient to power the 150 ohm Focal Clear.  I'm listening to the Clear and feeling like it could use a little more power.  The dilemma I'm running into is, I can't tolerate the heat build up around the ears that closed-back phones cause me.  I end up tearing them off in the 15-30 minutes after I put them on.  So, that rules out all the Sony headphones.  And the other open back phones I'm looking at need a more powerful amp.  The exception are the heavier weight (1lb +) open-back phones which I find uncomfortable as well due to the weight.  And i really do like the Sony signature of the TA.  I may just settle on the IER-Z1R, but was hoping on finding some headphones.  I'd be interested in any suggestions if anyone has any ideas.


HeyJerry—the Clear is 55 ohms; my TA drives them with no issues.  I’d consider another amp for headphones that are 150 ohms or more.


candlejack said:


> It can get the HD600 (also 300 Ohm) to very loud levels, but whether it gets _the best _out of them I cannot say.


The Sennheiser 600 is infamous for its veiled sound unless driven by an amp with sufficient power.  The TA can drive my 600 to loud levels but it lacked the clarity and definition I experienced with other headphones with lower impedance (less than 100 ohms). When I used the TA as a DAC for the Phonitor 2, the veil totally disappeared; still not on the same level as any of my Focal headphones but very, very pleasant nontheless.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Gadget67 said:


> HeyJerry—the Clear is 55 ohms; my TA drives them with no issues.  I’d consider another amp for headphones that are 150 ohms or more.
> 
> The Sennheiser 600 is infamous for its veiled sound unless driven by an amp with sufficient power.  The TA can drive my 600 to loud levels but it lacked the clarity and definition I experienced with other headphones with lower impedance (less than 100 ohms). When I used the TA as a DAC for the Phonitor 2, the veil totally disappeared; still not on the same level as any of my Focal headphones but very, very pleasant nontheless.


Is the drive output of the TA the same as the 1Z? If I’m using only 4.4mm mode, maybe getting the TA isn’t needed? 🤔


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> I take it you pulled the trigger on a Stellia + Arche combo? How does it sound compared to the TA/Stellia MDR Z1r/TA?


Actually, I purchased the Clear + Arche combination.  I already owned the Stellia and Utopia; the savings was significant and I can gift the Clear to my stepson or sell them.  Fortunately (or, unfortunately depending on your perspective) the Clears are REALLY nice!  I have lots of evaluating to do and the headphones and amp still have to burn in but my initial impressions are very favorable.  I also now have way too many headphones.......


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> Is the drive output of the TA the same as the 1Z? If I’m using only 4.4mm mode, maybe getting the TA isn’t needed? 🤔



The TA has a lot more power than 1A/1Z on balanced


----------



## JerryHead

Gadget67 said:


> HeyJerry—the Clear is 55 ohms; my TA drives them with no issues.  I’d consider another amp for headphones that are 150 ohms or more.
> 
> The Sennheiser 600 is infamous for its veiled sound unless driven by an amp with sufficient power.  The TA can drive my 600 to loud levels but it lacked the clarity and definition I experienced with other headphones with lower impedance (less than 100 ohms). When I used the TA as a DAC for the Phonitor 2, the veil totally disappeared; still not on the same level as any of my Focal headphones but very, very pleasant nontheless.


okay, possibly the TA does power them adequately, however, I wasn't happy with the fit of the Clear on my head. I'm sure it's a subjective matter, but the way it's weighted just didn't feel right.  The ear cups were also a bit small, and although the sound was impressive, the sound signature with the TA isn't what I expected. Perhaps I would've been happier with the Utopia, but again the fit of these just isn't quite right for me.  I'm paying a restocking fee to return them. but serves me right.


----------



## Gadget67

Gamerlingual said:


> Is the drive output of the TA the same as the 1Z? If I’m using only 4.4mm mode, maybe getting the TA isn’t needed? 🤔


Need is a relative thing around here!  My WM1Z will drive any of my headphones but the TA (a much more powerful amp) produces a much better result With all of my headphones.


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


> The TA has a lot more power than 1A/1Z on balanced





Gadget67 said:


> Need is a relative thing around here!  My WM1Z will drive any of my headphones but the TA (a much more powerful amp) produces a much better result With all of my headphones.


What are the output specs for both so I can see what ohms both can handle? Cheers for your follow ups


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> What are the output specs for both so I can see what ohms both can handle? Cheers for your follow ups



As I recal 1A/1Z balanced is 250mw and TA is 1200mw


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


> As I recal 1A/1Z balanced is 250mw and TA is 1200mw


Lord! No wonder the Z7M2 sounded weak with the 1Z plus the MDR-Z1R with the one 1Z. Now I need to see the output for my PHA-2A


----------



## Gadget67

JerryHead said:


> okay, possibly the TA does power them adequately, however, I wasn't happy with the fit of the Clear on my head. I'm sure it's a subjective matter, but the way it's weighted just didn't feel right.  The ear cups were also a bit small, and although the sound was impressive, the sound signature with the TA isn't what I expected. Perhaps I would've been happier with the Utopia, but again the fit of these just isn't quite right for me.  I'm paying a restocking fee to return them. but serves me right.


Best to return them if you aren’t happy with them.  I am not a fan of the microfiber fabric earphone pads; if you go to the Focal Clear headphone thread you’ll see many owners ranting about their lack of durability.  Replacement pads are $190-200 depending on who you buy them from.  I can also tell you that the Utopia is the best headphone I’ve ever experienced; the biggest downside is a really quiet listening environment is necessary.  The Stellia (closed back) is a better choice if low levels of ambient noise bother you but IMHO the Utopia is “better” by a hair.


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> Lord! No wonder the Z7M2 sounded weak with the 1Z plus the MDR-Z1R with the one 1Z. Now I need to see the output for my PHA-2A



165mw


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


> 165mw


Aw dude. I hit the jugular with the PHA-2A. No wonder it wasn’t needed since I had the 1Z. Momma Mia...


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


> 165mw


The ifi HIP DAC is 400mW@32 Ohm ; S-BAL(SE): 280mW@32 Ohm BAL: 6.3V@600 Ohm ; S-BAL (SE): 3.2V@600 Ohm. Looks
Like I might switch roles and make the Ifi my mini desktop app and switch the PHA-2A to my mobile on the go headphone amp


----------



## candlejack

nc8000 said:


> The TA has *a lot more power* than 1A/1Z on balanced





Gadget67 said:


> Need is a relative thing around here!  My WM1Z will drive any of my headphones but the TA (*a much more powerful amp*) produces a much better result With all of my headphones.





nc8000 said:


> As I recal 1A/1Z balanced is 250mw and TA is 1200mw


Yes, the TA is 4x more powerful, but that can be misleading. It only equates to about 6 dB. Move the volume of the TA by 6 dB and see if you think that is _a lot_.


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> Yes, the TA is 4x more powerful, but that can be misleading. It only equates to about 6 dB. Move the volume of the TA by 6 dB and see if you think that is _a lot_.



Yes a doubling of power adds 3dB. 10 times more power adds 10dB which equates to a doubling of percived loudness


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> Yes, the TA is 4x more powerful, but that can be misleading. It only equates to about 6 dB. Move the volume of the TA by 6 dB and see if you think that is _a lot_.


Well, probably like you, I tend to exhaust as many possibilities as I can before reaching a conclusion.  There is no doubt in my mind that the TA produces a “better” result than the WM1Z when switching back and forth including various volume and gain settings but those are my results based on what I hear.  Others may (and probably will) have different outcomes.


----------



## Damz87 (Jun 14, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> 165mw



It’s 320mW for the PHA-2A. 250mW for WM1A/Z


----------



## Gamerlingual

Damz87 said:


> It’s 320mW for the PHA-2A. 250mW for WM1A/Z


Then I didn't short change myself. Good to know.


----------



## candlejack

Gadget67 said:


> Well, probably like you, I tend to exhaust as many possibilities as I can before reaching a conclusion.  There is no doubt in my mind that the TA produces a “better” result than the WM1Z when switching back and forth including various volume and gain settings but those are my results based on what I hear.  Others may (and probably will) have different outcomes.


I've never heard the 1Z so I'm not making any statements about sound quality here. I was merely trying to point out that being 4x more powerful does not equate to being 4 times louder. Of course, this has to do with human perception of sound, which is not linear.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Damz87 said:


> It’s 320mW for the PHA-2A. 250mW for WM1A/Z


Answering your question a while back, getting the 100,000 yen stimulus package changed things up a bit. So trying to decide how to  use it ( or not use it )


----------



## candlejack

There's been a lot of talk recently about comparing different amps. There is one thing I've been wondering for a while now, perhaps you can offer your opinions. 

Imagine you are A/B testing two sources: *B* is the _better _source and *W* is the _worse _source. When do you find it's easier to spot the difference in sound quality: when switching (1) from *B* to *W* or (2) from *W* to *B*?


----------



## Umwelt

candlejack said:


> I've never heard the 1Z so I'm not making any statements about sound quality here. I was merely trying to point out that being 4x more powerful does not equate to being 4 times louder. Of course, this has to do with human perception of sound, which is not linear.



Also output power does more than just affect loudness. With more power the same driver can be more responsive at the same dB relative to a less powerful output. A more responsive driver yields better results everything else being equal.


----------



## candlejack

Umwelt said:


> Also output power does more than just affect loudness. With more power the same driver can be more responsive at the same dB relative to a less powerful output.


This assertion definitely requires some further argumentation or at least a solid reference, because nothing about it obvious. You are essentially saying that 100 mW from a 300 mW amplifier fundamentally sounds different than 100 mW from a 1200 mW amp.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> This assertion definitely requires some further argumentation or at least a solid reference, because nothing about it obvious. You are essentially saying that 100 mW from a 300 mW amplifier fundamentally sounds different than 100 mW from a 1200 mW amp.


For some it could, depends on the person's ears


----------



## candlejack (Jun 14, 2020)

An interesting tidbit about the Sony Music Center.

If you leave the Audio Output section at the "recommended/optimal setting" an interesting thing happens: the app upscales any file that it doesn't recognize as "hi-res" (EDIT: the "hi-res" check mark is a function of bit depth exclusively; the upscaling is done even on 24 bit "hi res" files, as long as they are 44.1 kHz) to 176.4 kHz/32 bit, regardless of the DSEE HX setting. You can verify this by looking at the input stream reported by the TA (top line in the alternative display mode) and also in the Sony Headphone Amplifier Driver.

Yesterday, when I was investigating the USB transfer between the PC and the TA I was surprised to see that it was using 2x the bandwidth for a 16/44.1 file than for a 24/96 one. For the latter I had run the math and the value was correct, so how can a lower resolution file use more bandwidth. Well, I guess this explains it, but, to be honest, I don't like this hidden behavior.


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> For some it could, depends on the person's ears


I disagree. To say that that one amp sounds better than another is something that can argued based just on a person's ears. 

What @Umwelt said was very different. He described a physical phenomenon whereby a more powerful amp will control a headphone better than a less powerful amp at the same output volume (i.e. at the same power level). Such a statement cannot be supported by a person's ears, as the ears only know what they hear, not why they hear it that way.


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> I disagree. To say that that one amp sounds better than another is something that can argued based just on a person's ears.
> 
> What @Umwelt said was very different. He described a physical phenomenon whereby a more powerful amp will control a headphone better than a less powerful amp at the same output volume (i.e. at the same power level). Such a statement cannot be supported by a person's ears, as the ears only know what they hear, not why they hear it that way.


He said more responsive which does not necessarily equate to “better”.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Gadget67 said:


> He said more responsive which does not necessarily equate to “better”.


This sums it up


----------



## candlejack (Jun 14, 2020)

Umwelt said:


> Also output power does more than just affect loudness. With more power the same driver can be more responsive at the same dB relative to a less powerful output. *A more responsive driver yields better results everything else being equal.*





Gadget67 said:


> He said more responsive which does not necessarily equate to “better”.


Above is the entire statement. I had intentionally left out the final sentence in my original quote, because I did not want to challenge the "better results" part, just the description of the underlying phenomenon. And btw, when I wrote "control better" I was referring to "more responsive" not to the music sounding better, which again, I leave out of the conversation.


Gamerlingual said:


> This sums it up


Not quite, please see above.


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> Above is the entire statement. I had intentionally left out the final sentence in my original quote, because I did not want to challenge the "better results" part, just the description of the underlying phenomenon. And btw, when I wrote "control better" I was referring to "more responsive" not to the music sounding better, which again, I leave out of the conversation.



i stand by what I said.  His last sentence is his conclusion; I don’t think it necessarily follows that “more responsive” is “better”.


----------



## candlejack

Gadget67 said:


> i stand by what I said.  His last sentence is his conclusion; I don’t think it necessarily follows that “more responsive” is “better”.


Ok, that's fine. But then I'm confused, which part of what I said are you opposing?


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> Ok, that's fine. But then I'm confused, which part of what I said are you opposing?


You were conflating “more responsive” and “better”.   I can measure “more responsive”; I can’t measure “better”.


----------



## Umwelt

Yep, ignore what I said about it being "better". I said more output power allows the same driver to be more responsive than on a less powerful amp at the same dB (did not say the same power level). The key point is that output power does not translate _only_ to dB/loudness, but also to what extent a driver can approximate its max efficiency. An adequate explanation of the phenomenon with regard to impedance relative to a given level of applied current is beyond by skills, I'm afraid. Maybe someone with more expertise can help.


----------



## Gadget67

Umwelt said:


> Yep, ignore what I said about it being "better". I said more output power allows the same driver to be more responsive than on a less powerful amp at the same dB (did not say the same power level). The key point is that output power does not translate _only_ to dB/loudness, but also to what extent a driver can approximate its max efficiency. An adequate explanation of the phenomenon with regard to impedance relative to a given level of applied current is beyond by skills, I'm afraid. Maybe someone with more expertise can help.


Thanks for the additional clarification.  Time to move on!


----------



## candlejack

Gadget67 said:


> You were conflating “more responsive” and “better”.   I can measure “more responsive”; I can’t measure “better”.


I said "the amp controls the headphone better". I used this as a synonym to "the driver is more responsive with this amp". If this is what you had a problem with, then I don't care to argue any further.


----------



## candlejack

Umwelt said:


> Yep, ignore what I said about it being "better". I said more output power allows the same driver to be more responsive than on a less powerful amp at the same dB (did not say the same power level). *The key point is that output power does not translate only to dB/loudness, but also to what extent a driver can approximate its max efficiency.* An adequate explanation of the phenomenon with regard to impedance relative to a given level of applied current is beyond by skills, I'm afraid. Maybe someone with more expertise can help.


The problem with what you said is that actually _same power = same dB (SPL)_. So if the same headphone is equally loud on 2 different amps, then the power output from both amps is the same. The fact that one amp has more maximum power available is irrelevant, unless you actually use it.

The text in bold from your message, I understand that you might not have all the knowledge required but fully explain it, but maybe you can at least tell me what it was that convinced you that's how things work. It's not the first time I hear something similar mentioned on the forums but it's never with anything scientific to back it up. But you gave me the impression of someone with a generally skeptical attitude, so I imagine there had to have been something very compelling.


----------



## Umwelt

candlejack said:


> so I imagine there had to have been something very compelling.



I saw some math formulae that convinced me lol

Maybe I can find them again, but if this goes against the grain of your understanding then there is a chance I interpreted wrong.


----------



## candlejack

candlejack said:


> There's been a lot of talk recently about comparing different amps. There is one thing I've been wondering for a while now, perhaps you can offer your opinions.
> 
> Imagine you are A/B testing two sources: *B* is the _better _source and *W* is the _worse _source. When do you find it's easier to spot the difference in sound quality: when switching (1) from *B* to *W* or (2) from *W* to *B*?





Gadget67 said:


> Time to move on!


Or perhaps move back a little.  A couple of pages ago I posted the message quoted above and was really hoping to get some answers, but I'm afraid the question got buried by the responsiveness discussion.


----------



## candlejack

Umwelt said:


> I saw some math formulae that convinced me lol
> 
> Maybe I can find them again, but if this goes against the grain of your understanding then there is a chance I interpreted wrong.


I'm starting to think that you saw something regarding the "damping factor" which is the ratio between the headphone impedance and the output impedance of the amp. But that has nothing to do with maximum power rating.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> I'm starting to think that you saw something regarding the "damping factor" which is the ratio between the headphone impedance and the output impedance of the amp. But that has nothing to do with maximum power rating.


I’ll experiment with the TA today. Should be fun


----------



## Umwelt

candlejack said:


> I'm starting to think that you saw something regarding the "damping factor" which is the ratio between the headphone impedance and the output impedance of the amp. But that has nothing to do with maximum power rating.



That could be the case. I also thought it made sense intuitively.

On a separate topic, besides saving volume levels for each of the separate outputs, I really wish the TA could also recall separate volume levels for the inputs. The USB input is definitely louder at the same volume level than optical from the same source. Both analogue and optical are relatively low, and at the same time both of this have a slight hiss audible on one channel when no sound is playing while using IEMs, and more so when DSD remastering is on. USB in contrast is dead silent, as silence should be.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 15, 2020)

Umwelt said:


> It would be pretty annoying if new firmwares make undocumented changes to the sound. Some users may be used to the prior sound and even prefer it, so the change may not be welcome for some especially if unexpected. Not sure if it's possible to rollback firmwares by installing a previous one on these Sony devices though. But if this is true then Sony is just not posting proper change logs.



It’s a change that is not so drastic on the TA. I have a qdc V3 Anole IEM. For the longest time I thought all my headphones; maybe my regular favorite 6 or 7 were fine from the TA. The qdc V3 Anole is a $600 midpriced 3BA IEM. Changing to 1.03 was nice as maybe it’s noticeable what it did in relation to how the qdc Anole V3 chooses to tune the sound? The rest were a slight improvement maybe but generally a wash.

You have to remember that all owners in the Walkman thread enjoy the different history of Sony firmwares available. Before the 30 or so enthusiast made third party firmware, folks each found a historic or current (Sony) firmware which went with their desired tone along with their IEM. It’s generally accepted that firmware changes the Walkman tone and that the progress in tuning has been beneficial? Sony is making stuff better. You can roll the TA back, though I have not tried. Also it’s funny as no one really cares if 1.02 is slightly darker than 1.03? No one talks about this phenomenon but me. It really takes more than one person to substantiate a change. As many changes are purely placebo influenced.


----------



## Damz87

Redcarmoose said:


> It’s a change that is not so drastic on the TA. I have a qdc V3 Anole IEM. For the longest time I thought all my headphones; maybe my regular favorite 6 or 7 were fine from the TA. The qdc V3 Anole is a $600 midpriced 3BA IEM. Changing to 1.03 was nice as maybe it’s noticeable what it did in relation to how the qdc Anole V3 chooses to tune the sound? The rest were a slight improvement maybe but generally a wash.
> 
> You have to remember that all owners in the Walkman thread enjoy the different history of Sony firmwares available. Before the 30 or so enthusiast made third party firmware, folks each found a historic or current (Sony) firmware which went with their desired tone along with their IEM. It’s generally accepted that firmware changes the Walkman tone and that the progress in tuning has been beneficial? Sony is making stuff better. You can roll the TA back, though I have not tried. Also it’s funny as no one really cares if 1.02 is slightly darker than 1.03? No one talks about this phenomenon but me. It really takes more than one person to substantiate a change. As many changes are purely placebo influenced.



Whilst I haven't actually rolled back to 1.02 and tested, you and I had discussed the sound of the TA on multiple threads and concluded that I was perceiving the sound a little brighter than you did with the IER-Z1R, Z5 & N3. Then you updated yours to 1.03 and noticed that it sounded brighter as well. Coincidence?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 15, 2020)

Damz87 said:


> Whilst I haven't actually rolled back to 1.02 and tested, you and I had discussed the sound of the TA on multiple threads and concluded that I was perceiving the sound a little brighter than you did with the IER-Z1R, Z5 & N3. Then you updated yours to 1.03 and noticed that it sounded brighter as well. Coincidence?



Someone posted the links for 1.01 and 1.02 but I was not able to get them to work. Part of our journey was to roll back to 1.02 to really hear how it’s different. I’m so glad you stand beside me in thinking 1.03 is slightly brighter, and better. Still it’s maybe going to take more than just us two. In a lot of ways it doesn’t matter. I just feel neither tuning; 1.02 or 1.03 was so different that it made the TA bad in any way. As we all know there are truly a wider range in the Walkman firmwares and some are not preferable, even Sony old stock firmware are not preferred by many. So we have an improvement.

I do remember I was calling the TA dark then you said it was fine. Then I determined that I could have updated my firmware. Honestly these firmware updates for the TA was never talked about (ever). It was a complete surprise to me.

If you read my Head-Fi review of the qdc Anole V3, I talk about the IEM being nice with everything I own except the TA. Now the TA is perfect with it. In fact the TA is your favorite combo with the 10BA qdc flagship the Anole VX.


----------



## Damz87

Redcarmoose said:


> Someone posted the links for 1.01 and 1.02 but I was not able to get them to work. Part of our journey was to roll back to 1.02 to really hear how it’s different. I’m so glad you stand beside me in thinking 1.03 is slightly brighter, and better. Still it’s maybe going to take more than just us two. In a lot of ways it doesn’t matter. I just feel neither tuning; 1.02 or 1.03 was so different that it made the TA bad in any way. As we all know there are truly a wider range in the Walkman firmwares and some are not preferable, even Sony old stock firmware are not preferred by many. So we have an improvement.
> 
> I do remember I was calling the TA dark then you said it was fine. Then I determined that I could have updated my firmware. Honestly these firmware updates for the TA were never talked about. It was a complete surprise to me.



Yeah, I gave it a try too and had no luck. Also, I feel like the process of trying to firmware roll and A/B would be too long on the TA that it would be very hard to compare with any certainty. Really would need two units plugged into the same source and quickly switching.

In any case, I highly doubt anyone would consider the TA "too bright" - it's still a smooth and mellow sounding dac/amp, even compared to the DMP-Z1 & PHA-2A. So a little extra emphasis in the higher frequencies should be welcomed by most, if not all.


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 15, 2020)

Damz87 said:


> It’s 320mW for the PHA-2A. 250mW for WM1A/Z



OK. The 165mw is what is stated in the specs on the Sony product page


----------



## Damz87

nc8000 said:


> OK. The 165mw is what is stated in the specs on the Sony product page



Maybe you're looking at PHA-2:


----------



## nc8000

Damz87 said:


> Maybe you're looking at PHA-2:



Ahh haden’t spotted that missing A


----------



## Damz87

nc8000 said:


> Ahh haden’t spotted that missing A



I wonder whether Sony will ever bring out another portable dac/amp like these... I suppose they’re a bit redundant with the more powerful modern walkmans


----------



## raymogi

I’ve always had my eyes on the TA for a while now and even after buying every other Sony high end stuff, I kept thinking about the TA.

This past week, my eyes were somehow set on this thread every time there’s a new post so I’ve been reading a bit. Now I think I’m ready to pull the trigger on this.

One question for all owners here, does it lag when you use it to view videos? Cause every other Walkman stuff is laggy when it’s connected as USB DAC.


----------



## Gamerlingual

raymogi said:


> I’ve always had my eyes on the TA for a while now and even after buying every other Sony high end stuff, I kept thinking about the TA.
> 
> This past week, my eyes were somehow set on this thread every time there’s a new post so I’ve been reading a bit. Now I think I’m ready to pull the trigger on this.
> 
> One question for all owners here, does it lag when you use it to view videos? Cause every other Walkman stuff is laggy when it’s connected as USB DAC.


Nope no lag. @Redcarmoose can answer


----------



## nc8000

raymogi said:


> I’ve always had my eyes on the TA for a while now and even after buying every other Sony high end stuff, I kept thinking about the TA.
> 
> This past week, my eyes were somehow set on this thread every time there’s a new post so I’ve been reading a bit. Now I think I’m ready to pull the trigger on this.
> 
> One question for all owners here, does it lag when you use it to view videos? Cause every other Walkman stuff is laggy when it’s connected as USB DAC.



I’ve only used it over optical from my tv and that has no lag I can detect. Don’t kniw about usb from a computer for streaming or gaming, some have mentioned perhaps a 0,1s delay


----------



## Redcarmoose

Damz87 said:


> Yeah, I gave it a try too and had no luck. Also, I feel like the process of trying to firmware roll and A/B would be too long on the TA that it would be very hard to compare with any certainty. Really would need two units plugged into the same source and quickly switching.
> 
> In any case, I highly doubt anyone would consider the TA "too bright" - it's still a smooth and mellow sounding dac/amp, even compared to the DMP-Z1 & PHA-2A. So a little extra emphasis in the higher frequencies should be welcomed by most, if not all.



Yes, that’s the tone now! Just right!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Nope no lag. @Redcarmoose can answer



I was watching movies with optical and no lag. Not sure about USB, but guess no?


----------



## raymogi

This will mainly live alongside my Windows machine so I can use it with optical too I guess.

I asked about USB because I was gonna get Kimber USB for it as well


----------



## adrianm

There is a setting which determines whether there is lag,i the buffer size.Which i changed about a week ago to max and now i can't find anymore ).No other differences sound wise though


----------



## Redcarmoose

adrianm said:


> There is a setting which determines whether there is lag,i the buffer size.Which i changed about a week ago to max and now i can't find anymore ).No other differences sound wise though



That’s the Windows’s buffer setting.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> That’s the Windows’s buffer setting.


Listening to the AP-2000Ti. The highs are too bright and give me a headache from that piercing high. Wow. Weird when the environment gets more quiet


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 15, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


> That’s the Windows’s buffer setting.





Gamerlingual said:


> Listening to the AP-2000Ti. The highs are too bright and give me a headache from that piercing high. Wow. Weird when the environment gets more quiet






See where it says 44.1? That will increase the buffer size if you change the bit-rate Windows sends to the TA. My guess is it’s basic to start with but if you are going to play hi-res files you need to adjust windows or your simply playing 24bit but Windows is sending default 16bit?

@https://www.head-fi.org/members/adrianm.532612/


I’m going to adjust that but I don’t think it has anything to do with lag as there is no lag. It’s Windows preservation of RAM.


----------



## raymogi

adrianm said:


> There is a setting which determines whether there is lag,i the buffer size.Which i changed about a week ago to max and now i can't find anymore ).No other differences sound wise though



Where can I find this setting in Windows?


----------



## Redcarmoose

raymogi said:


> Where can I find this setting in Windows?



Give me a minute and I will write it down.


----------



## raymogi

Just placed an order for the TA. Should arrive by end of the month hopefully. Can’t wait!

Now to order the Kimber USB as well. 

Is there any recommended optical cable for it as well? I have this UK brand one I forgot what it’s called. Not so expensive but not that cheap either.


----------



## Redcarmoose

You go Control Panel then Hardware and Sound. But that’s not where you change bit-rate.


----------



## Redcarmoose

adrianm said:


> There is a setting which determines whether there is lag,i the buffer size.Which i changed about a week ago to max and now i can't find anymore ).No other differences sound wise though





raymogi said:


> Where can I find this setting in Windows?



The buffer size didn’t seem to move the voice sync around at all. It seemed pretty much in-sync with the movie on USB. Maybe a very slight 1/10 of a second delay? Not an issue though and nothing like the lag on the 1A/1Z.


----------



## Redcarmoose

raymogi said:


> Just placed an order for the TA. Should arrive by end of the month hopefully. Can’t wait!
> 
> Now to order the Kimber USB as well.
> 
> Is there any recommended optical cable for it as well? I have this UK brand one I forgot what it’s called. Not so expensive but not that cheap either.



No recommendations for optical. Though AudioQuest makes one. I use an old upgrade Monster optical from 2009.


----------



## Redcarmoose

The way you change the bit-rate is go back to Control Pannel and choose “Sound”. The thing is is it never changes the buffer size? So I was wrong.


----------



## candlejack

Umwelt said:


> On a separate topic, besides saving volume levels for each of the separate outputs, I really wish the TA could also recall separate volume levels for the inputs. The USB input is definitely louder at the same volume level than optical from the same source. Both analogue and optical are relatively low, and at the same time both of this have a slight hiss audible on one channel when no sound is playing while using IEMs, and more so when DSD remastering is on. USB in contrast is dead silent, as silence should be.


There should not be different volume levels for the digital inputs. The fact that there is indicates to me that the different inputs receive data that has had some processing applied to it before it was sent to the TA. And unless you expressly want such processing (e.g. EQ) then you should probably try to disable it.  


Redcarmoose said:


> That’s the Windows’s buffer setting.


It also only equates to about 5-10 ms at the maximum value of the buffer, so really, imperceptible lag.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Holy momma Mia the DSD makes a huge difference with the walkman and Z7M2!! Hooked as the TA is working its magic!!!





The goods


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Holy momma Mia the DSD makes a huge difference with the walkman and Z7M2!! Hooked as the TA is working its magic!!!
> 
> 
> 
> The goods


DSD remastering is real.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> DSD remastering is real.


If the MDR-Z1R sounds as good, or just slightly better, then I’ll get the Z7M2 and just save up for the TA. The remastering is amazing!!!


----------



## Damz87

Redcarmoose said:


> The way you change the bit-rate is go back to Control Pannel and choose “Sound”. The thing is is it never changes the buffer size? So I was wrong.


I have mine set to max bit rate on windows and then allow exclusive mode for tidal, roon etc. which will then play bit-perfect. But for general windows audio it will be in 384khz/32bit


----------



## Damz87

Gamerlingual said:


> If the MDR-Z1R sounds as good, or just slightly better, then I’ll get the Z7M2 and just save up for the TA. The remastering is amazing!!!



DSD remastering is awesome


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> If the MDR-Z1R sounds as good, or just slightly better, then I’ll get the Z7M2 and just save up for the TA. The remastering is amazing!!!


I would listen to the Z1R with the TA before getting the Z7M2


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> I would listen to the Z1R with the TA before getting the Z7M2


I am. And so far the Z7M2 is more to my liking


----------



## Gamerlingual




----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> If the MDR-Z1R sounds as good, or just slightly better, then I’ll get the Z7M2 and just save up for the TA. The remastering is amazing!!!


I'm enjoying the pics from the showroom, please add more!

What exactly do you find amazing in the DSD remastering function?


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> I am. And so far the Z7M2 is more to my liking


Never heard the Z7-2 but the Z1R takes some getting used to. A quick demo will probably not convince too many people. If you can buy it and return it for free, I would take it at home for 2 weeks before making a decision.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> I'm enjoying the pics from the showroom, please add more!
> 
> What exactly do you find amazing in the DSD remastering function?


It plays the instruments eventually across the spectrum, just like the IER-Z1R with my 1Z. Plus the tone is not as aggressive as the MDR-Z1R


----------



## adrianm

Candlejack's here to rain on everyone's parade


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> Candlejack's here to rain on everyone's parade


Nope. He’s asking out of curiosity


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Nope. He’s asking out of curiosity


Give it time


----------



## Redcarmoose

Damz87 said:


> I have mine set to max bit rate on windows and then allow exclusive mode for tidal, roon etc. which will then play bit-perfect. But for general windows audio it will be in 384khz/32bit



I did set it like that as a test and all played fluidly. I don’t use a PC with the TA, but was simply curious if there was a lag.


----------



## adrianm

Then i must've been wathing an out of sync youtube video .


----------



## adrianm

Either way,i get why the bass might be a bit overpowering at times,i feel that too in certain tracks, most people blame it on the Z1R ,but having listened to it out of a more neutral dac i disagree,i think it's just the pairing.Hugo 2 is more neutral but the soundstage on it and the TT2 seems diminished vs the TA in balanced at least.This is i'm 99% sure i'm returning my TA.I kinda feel the combo is too dark.Now it's just a matter of  telling  my imaginary kids we won't have food for a few months because of Dave.Or worst case i'll get a new set of headphones (Stellia or LCDI4) and a Hugo 2 instead for now and call it a day.The new headphones mostly because there are really good deals to be had from my dealer  when getting combos.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Candlejack's here to rain on everyone's parade





adrianm said:


> Give it time


This sounds a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.  

It would be silly of me to question someone's subjective impressions.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> I did set it like that as a test and all played fluidly. I don’t use a PC with the TA, but was simply curious if there was a lag.


The MDR-Z7M2 is much more to my liking so far with the DSD on than the MDR-Z1R. Everything just feels more cohesive and not as spread out as the Z1R. Trying both each for 2 hours before I make my final decision. But I think it is best to save for the TA first before I get the Z7M2


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> This sounds a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.
> 
> It would be silly of me to question someone's subjective impressions.


The bass on the Z7M2 is also not as overpowering on the TA like the MDR-Z1R is


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> The MDR-Z7M2 is much more to my liking so far with the DSD on than the MDR-Z1R. Everything just feels more cohesive and not as spread out as the Z1R. Trying both each for 2 hours before I make my final decision. But I think it is best to save for the TA first before I get the Z7M2


Any Kimber cables laying around?


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> This sounds a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.


It's 100% what it is  i was just being ironic


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Any Kimber cables laying around?


Someone else is using them another Z1R :-/


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Someone else is using them another Z1R :-/



First World problems.


----------



## candlejack (Jun 15, 2020)

@Gamerlingual is accidentally replying to the last post in the thread with a quote, even though he's posting unrelated to the quote. It's excusable, after all, he's providing a live report from the showroom floor.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> @Gamerlingual is accidentally replying to the last post in the thread with a quote, even though he's posting unrelated to the quote.


I was trying to address why the Z7M2 works better for my ears than the MDR-Z1R. I used it on low gain with the DSD and man i was literally dancing in my seat with the Z7M2. I rarely get that impact unless it’s the IER-Z1R with my 1Z/1A


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> I was trying to address why the Z7M2 works better for my ears than the MDR-Z1R. I used it on low gain with the DSD and man i was literally dancing in my seat with the Z7M2. I rarely get that impact unless it’s the IER-Z1R with my 1Z/1A


Have you tried the Z7-2 with the 1A/1Z?


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> Have you tried the Z7-2 with the 1A/1Z?


Yup before using the TA. Overall, the mids and highs were more relaxed and the bass was stronger but didn’t overpower them. The bass feels stronger on the MDR-Z1R, so the Z7M2 has a better bass signature that doesn’t punch my ears out as it still has a solid thunk and I can still feel the instrument separation. The DSD on the TA just brought out everything that wowed me which made me feel like I was at a concert or movie theater. It was that much better than the MDR-Z1R for my ears, but I know others will feel otherwise which I’m all good with.


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> It's 100% what it is  i was just being ironic


Will you still sell your TA?


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Will you still sell your TA?


Most likely yes, but the only things i want to replace it with is the Dave.And 7k is still a tough pill to swallow, i'm still pondering it.If i do decide to do it i figured i'd send it back to Amazon since it's still in the return window and it's less hassle.If i don't make up my mind till then..we'll talk i guess  if you have the patience.I'm still waiting for my Sony Kimber cable to test it out with the MDR and TA before i make a decision.


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> Most likely yes, but the only things i want to replace it with is the Dave.And 7k is still a tough pill to swallow, i'm still pondering it.If i do decide to do it i figured i'd send it back to Amazon since it's still in the return window and it's less hassle.If i don't make up my mind till then..we'll talk i guess  if you have the patience.I'm still waiting for my Sony Kimber cable to test it out with the MDR and TA before i make a decision.


Like I said, I’m saving up for it. So it’s part of the process


----------



## adrianm

You seem to have a lot of gear though, why not reduce the collection?


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> You seem to have a lot of gear though, why not reduce the collection?


Hence the saving up. It’s all part of the process


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Like I said, I’m saving up for it. So it’s part of the process


That's what i said when i went in to audition Dave, i'll save up and get it later, not the time for a purchase this big.Don't have your patience though.Only thing holding me back is some work related uncertainty.Company i work for affected by Covid(like most).


----------



## Umwelt

candlejack said:


> There should not be different volume levels for the digital inputs. The fact that there is indicates to me that the different inputs receive data that has had some processing applied to it before it was sent to the TA. And unless you expressly want such processing (e.g. EQ) then you should probably try to disable it.



Actually I noticed the application I was using for the digital optical had a lower master volume level, so you're most likely right. Digital (optical) definitely has a slight hiss/higher noise floor than the digital (USB), for whatever reason, just like the analogue input does. Again, only noticeable when using IEMs, and the DSD upsampling increases it.


----------



## candlejack

Umwelt said:


> Actually I noticed the application I was using for the digital optical had a lower master volume level, so you're most likely right. Digital (optical) definitely has a slight hiss/higher noise floor than the digital (USB), for whatever reason, just like the analogue input does. Again, only noticeable when using IEMs, and the DSD upsampling increases it.


Very interesting. If it's only noticeable with IEMs, then the errors are not in the data transmission, but in the dac/amp itself. But that doesn't really make sense, since the dac is almost certainly isolated from the IO module. Hmmm...


----------



## Umwelt

candlejack said:


> Very interesting. If it's only noticeable with IEMs, then the errors are not in the data transmission, but in the dac/amp itself. But that doesn't really make sense, since the dac is almost certainly isolated from the IO module. Hmmm...



I think it's definitely the DAC as it's also amplified along with volume steps. I only really start noticing after going above -10dB on low gain. For me it only becomes a bit distracting at around -5dB and above. If DSD upsampling is off it's basically a non-issue.


----------



## candlejack

Umwelt said:


> I think it's definitely the DAC as it's also amplified along with volume steps. I only really start noticing after going above -10dB on low gain. For me it only becomes a bit distracting at around -5dB and above. If DSD upsampling is off it's basically a non-issue.


OMG, YOU LISTEN TO IEMS AT -5 DB?!?! (PARDON THE SHOUTING, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE YOU CAN STILL HEAR ME)


----------



## Umwelt

lol appreciate the concern! I think that was during testing of non-music content, which tends to have significantly lower volume than music files. Besides listening to music, I'm using the TA heavily for other media (video and gaming). In fact, I'm pretty sure I'll end up using it quite a bit more for non-music media. Sometimes the background music on video and games sound so good (paired with Z1Rs) that I start swinging to it and even get distracted from the "main" content.

But yeah, -5dB would be too loud for me also when playing back music. But I could take it if I wanted to rock out hard.


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 15, 2020)

Welp, now hunting for the best prices for the TA and Z7M2. Here’s hoping it works out


----------



## Umwelt

Gamerlingual said:


> Welp, now hunting for the best prices for the TA and Z7M2. Here’s hoping it works out



While you were auditioning this do you know if any DSEE HX upscaling mode was on? It would have applied to the 44.1khz content you were feeding it if so.

 I know you were really impressed by the DSD upsampling. I'm wondering which of the two processes has more impact, and how well they work when both are on at the same time.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Umwelt said:


> While you were auditioning this do you know if any DSEE HX upscaling mode was on? It would have applied to the 44.1khz content you were feeding it if so.
> 
> I know you were really impressed by the DSD upsampling. I'm wondering which of the two processes has more impact, and how well they work when both are on at the same time.


The DSD has WAY more impact than the DSEE HX. I was literally dancing on my chair just humming to the beats. I hardly ever feel that kind of impact when using cans. It was just magical. So the Z7M2 best out the MDR-Z1R only because my ears liked the more relaxed sound signature. I understand now how certain people prefer certain cans. And at least the price will be way better than getting the MDR-Z1R


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> While you were auditioning this do you know if any DSEE HX upscaling mode was on? It would have applied to the 44.1khz content you were feeding it if so.
> 
> I know you were really impressed by the DSD upsampling. I'm wondering which of the two processes has more impact, and how well they work when both are on at the same time.


I've tested them for a few weeks side by side and i agree that DSD upsampling makes a more noticeable difference.The DSEE HX did make a bit of a difference,particularly when selecting "strings" you could actually hear them very slightly accentuated,same with female vocals it seemed.But overall i felt you lost a bit of clarity with it on when playing more complex tracks.
  I read a bit about it after and Sony explains it's made to get the best out of mp3's basically.So it made no sense for me to use it with Tidal.Haven't tried it with lower resolution music though


----------



## darmccombs

I guess I’m the odd man out on the DSD Upsampling.  I think it rolls things off dynamics-wise and it seems to make the voices further away, almost like going from an indoor venue to an outdoor one.  Admittedly, I’m still early in my testing, but I find myself turning the DSD off more and more.

On another note, I have been listening with my iPad Pro (usb-c) mostly.  I used the same Qobuz music, same usb cable, etc from my Macbook Pro today, and the sound was different.  So sources do matter, IME.  While I toy with the idea of getting a nice Streaming DAP (Qobuz is my main music source), I don’t think I’m ready to upgrade from the Ipad or Macbook yet.


----------



## adrianm

darmccombs said:


> I guess I’m the odd man out on the DSD Upsampling.  I think it rolls things off dynamics-wise and it seems to make the voices further away, almost like going from an indoor venue to an outdoor one.  Admittedly, I’m still early in my testing, but I find myself turning the DSD off more and more.
> 
> On another note, I have been listening with my iPad Pro (usb-c) mostly.  I used the same Qobuz music, same usb cable, etc from my Macbook Pro today, and the sound was different.  So sources do matter, IME.  While I toy with the idea of getting a nice Streaming DAP (Qobuz is my main music source), I don’t think I’m ready to upgrade from the Ipad or Macbook yet.


I think there's a whole bunch of software settings you need to rule out before you can reach that conclusion.Was the macbook pro plugged in or running on battery?


----------



## darmccombs

adrianm said:


> I think there's a whole bunch of software settings you need to rule out before you can reach that conclusion.Was the macbook pro plugged in or running on battery?


Battery, of course.  🤓


----------



## nc8000

darmccombs said:


> I guess I’m the odd man out on the DSD Upsampling.  I think it rolls things off dynamics-wise and it seems to make the voices further away, almost like going from an indoor venue to an outdoor one.  Admittedly, I’m still early in my testing, but I find myself turning the DSD off more and more.
> 
> On another note, I have been listening with my iPad Pro (usb-c) mostly.  I used the same Qobuz music, same usb cable, etc from my Macbook Pro today, and the sound was different.  So sources do matter, IME.  While I toy with the idea of getting a nice Streaming DAP (Qobuz is my main music source), I don’t think I’m ready to upgrade from the Ipad or Macbook yet.



For home use the Auralic Aries Mini has a build in Qobuz client (and Tidal, Wimp and HRA)


----------



## darmccombs

nc8000 said:


> For home use the Auralic Aries Mini has a build in Qobuz client (and Tidal, Wimp and HRA)


Yes, I wish I had a way to demo the Auralic.  I do have a Bluesound Node 2i in my full size speaker system.  I guess I could try that with the TA, for fun and another knowledge point.


----------



## adrianm

I'd be curious to see your impressions.When i tested the TA with the Node 2I vs Naim ND 555 there was a slight difference (both coax), but i did know the price of both beforehand so that might have played a part.


----------



## darmccombs

adrianm said:


> I'd be curious to see your impressions.When i tested the TA with the Node 2I vs Naim ND 555 there was a slight difference (both coax), but i did know the price of both beforehand so that might have played a part.


Ok, I’ll post my findings here once I get a chance to run those tests.


----------



## Fsilva

darmccombs said:


> Yes, I wish I had a way to demo the Auralic.  I do have a Bluesound Node 2i in my full size speaker system.  I guess I could try that with the TA, for fun and another knowledge point.


Just get an Aries Mini...you will not regret it!! 
Used the Aries with the TA, and still use the Aries with the RME....


----------



## darmccombs

Fsilva said:


> Just get an Aries Mini...you will not regret it!!
> Used the Aries with the TA, and still use the Aries with the RME....


You're very good at spending my money.  

Can you tell me the sound quality improvement that the Aries will provide over the Bluesound Node 2i, Macbook, or iPad?


----------



## Fsilva

darmccombs said:


> You're very good at spending my money.
> 
> Can you tell me the sound quality improvement that the Aries will provide over the Bluesound Node 2i, Macbook, or iPad?


Never used ipad nor the node 2i...what i can tell you is that your PC/MAC (i´m a Mac user) will not sound as good as a streammer...why?

Because you will need a SW (amarra, jriver,etc) to listen to your music (that will color in some way your music), plus the fact that a PC or MAc will always be running more process in the background with other tasks, plus they have they´re own drivers (asio, etc...) 

Get an Aries Mini, they are cheap, if you´re not happy (i highly doubt it) just return it....or return/sell the TA (which i´ve done) since you already have an RME which is better than most of the "audiophile" balloney that charge you 10 times more....


----------



## Umwelt

For kicks I was playing around hooking up Sony's first 70mm driver phones, the MDR-XB1000, to the TA. I don't think they have the best synergy, but the result is not bad for what those headphones are. I do find that the TA can make even entry-level headphones sound better than I've heard before, like my cheap buy lovely SHP9500s open cans.


Oh, and regarding the RME as a TA alternative... after trying both I'd just say that the RME is definitely a professional tool for professional applications. Not really a device for the simple joy of "fun" listening. I do think the TA beats it for that purpose. On the other hand I'm sure the RME can be tweaked into something close to that.


----------



## Damz87

Umwelt said:


> For kicks I was playing around hooking up Sony's first 70mm driver phones, the MDR-XB1000, to the TA. I don't think they have the best synergy, but the result is not bad for what those headphones are. I do find that the TA can make even entry-level headphones sound better than I've heard before, like my cheap buy lovely SHP9500s open cans.
> 
> 
> Oh, and regarding the RME as a TA alternative... after trying both I'd just say that the RME is definitely a professional tool for professional applications. Not really a device for the simple joy of "fun" listening. I do think the TA beats it for that purpose. On the other hand I'm sure the RME can be tweaked into something close to that.



Agree that the XB1000’s don’t sound great from the TA. It’s too much warmth and I suspect the SE is not quite enough power. Would like to one day get the XB1000’s recabled and hear them balanced


----------



## darmccombs

Fsilva said:


> Never used ipad nor the node 2i...what i can tell you is that your PC/MAC (i´m a Mac user) will not sound as good as a streammer...why?
> 
> Because you will need a SW (amarra, jriver,etc) to listen to your music (that will color in some way your music), plus the fact that a PC or MAc will always be running more process in the background with other tasks, plus they have they´re own drivers (asio, etc...)
> 
> Get an Aries Mini, they are cheap, if you´re not happy (i highly doubt it) just return it....or return/sell the TA (which i´ve done) since you already have an RME which is better than most of the "audiophile" balloney that charge you 10 times more....


Thanks for the suggestion.  Since the Aries Mini and Bluesound Node 2i are similar, I will test with the Node 2i since I have it right here.  That will show me weather an Ipad Pro or $500 streamer will sound better.


----------



## Umwelt

Damz87 said:


> Agree that the XB1000’s don’t sound great from the TA. It’s too much warmth and I suspect the SE is not quite enough power. Would like to one day get the XB1000’s recabled and hear them balanced



It would be cool to hear the XB1000 balanced. Such an interesting headphone. 
And actually I think it doesn't work very well with the TA's digital processing. I turned them off and the XB sounded much closer to what it should (to my ears). I feel like the processing was kind of limiting its otherwise impressive bass capabilities, very refined, especially for a supposedly bass-boosted headphone. The processing was making it sound bloated, but now they're back to the polite but firm performance that I remembered.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Umwelt said:


> For kicks I was playing around hooking up Sony's first 70mm driver phones, the MDR-XB1000, to the TA. I don't think they have the best synergy, but the result is not bad for what those headphones are. I do find that the TA can make even entry-level headphones sound better than I've heard before, like my cheap buy lovely SHP9500s open cans.
> 
> 
> Oh, and regarding the RME as a TA alternative... after trying both I'd just say that the RME is definitely a professional tool for professional applications. Not really a device for the simple joy of "fun" listening. I do think the TA beats it for that purpose. On the other hand I'm sure the RME can be tweaked into something close to that.



It is rather entertaining to find out how the TA makes even $65 IEMs ear-candy.


----------



## Umwelt

Redcarmoose said:


> It is rather entertaining to find out how the TA makes even $65 IEMs ear-candy.



Yup, though to be fair the SHP9500s have no business being only $65 (and they're open headphones rather than IEMs). Definitely belong in a higher tier for both SQ and comfort. Even people with top-end gear should try out a pair, if only just to get one of the most humbling lessons about diminishing returns in audiophilia.


----------



## Gamerlingual

For others, does the DSD make a huge difference that you consider it end game for the sound quality?


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> For others, does the DSD make a huge difference that you consider it end game for the sound quality?



Yes I think dsd is the best but also huge file size and if I just do cassual listening which is the vast majority of my listening rather than critical listening I enjoy anything from 330kb aac and up


----------



## adrianm (Jun 16, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> For others, does the DSD make a huge difference that you consider it end game for the sound quality?


It depends on your budget i guess, it won't make nearly as much difference as a higher end dac. My reasoning is instead of spending more money on the fix (dedicated streamer,cables,power filters,etc) i'd rather just use the money and get a higher end dac. Sure ,the cost upfront is a problem but differences are a lot more profound.That said i haven't heard anything (one box solution) under 4-5 times the prices of the TA that i would call "superior".Different tonality and better matching sure ,your preferences might change though.Some Chord Dacs might have slightly better timing, "sound more musical " reviewers say.Haven't tested enough at the same price range to notice a difference though.

Edit : nevermind i thought u meant DSD Remastering.
I think it's unclear if higher resolution yields more benefits.Sure high res tracks are more recent and benefit from better mastering sometimes.But it mostly comes down to that.I find it hard to believe that tracks recorded with 30-40 year old tech will suddenly sound better when in DSD. For recent recordings it's debatable i guess.


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


> Yes I think dsd is the best but also huge file size and if I just do cassual listening which is the vast majority of my listening rather than critical listening I enjoy anything from 330kb aac and up





adrianm said:


> It depends on your budget i guess, it won't make nearly as much difference as a higher end dac. My reasoning is instead of spending more money on the fix (dedicated streamer,cables,power filters,etc) i'd rather just use the money and get a higher end dac. Sure ,the cost upfront is a problem but differences are a lot more profound.That said i haven't heard anything (one box solution) under 4-5 times the prices of the TA that i would call "superior".Different tonality and better matching sure ,your preferences might change though.Some Chord Dacs might have slightly better timing, "sound more musical " reviewers say.Haven't tested enough at the same price range to notice a difference though.
> 
> Edit : nevermind i thought u meant DSD Remastering.
> I think it's unclear if higher resolution yields more benefits.Sure high res tracks are more recent and benefit from better mastering sometimes.But it mostly comes down to that.I find it hard to believe that tracks recorded with 30-40 year old tech will suddenly sound better when in DSD. For recent recordings it's debatable i guess.


I think my approach has a mix of both critical and casual. I also realized if I was too critical, I would not enjoy the music as much. I think that's what wowed me with the TA and MDR-Z7M2. The tonality was relaxed but it pushed the right buttons to make it sound a movie theater experience. I felt like I was watching Phantom of the Opera live!! (well, I have seen it in person)


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> For others, does the DSD make a huge difference that you consider it end game for the sound quality?



It depends on the master tape. Some DSD albums are good some bad. A pig with lipstick is still a pink dirty farm animal.


----------



## Rob49

Can someone please tell me if you can use other DAP's with the TA, other than Sony one's. ( I have a Fiio X5iii and clearly would need a different USB cable. ) ?


----------



## Lookout57

Rob49 said:


> Can someone please tell me if you can use other DAP's with the TA, other than Sony one's. ( I have a Fiio X5iii and clearly would need a different USB cable. ) ?


Sure you can use any DAP with the TA. You can use either the standard USB A port in the back or a micro USB cable into the Walkman port.

In my office I have my computer plugged into the Walkman port using a micro USB cable and my Sony WM1A in the Sony dock plugged into the USB A in the back.


----------



## Rob49

Lookout57 said:


> Sure you can use any DAP with the TA. You can use either the standard USB A port in the back or a micro USB cable into the Walkman port.
> 
> In my office I have my computer plugged into the Walkman port using a micro USB cable and my Sony WM1A in the Sony dock plugged into the USB A in the back.



Yes, i'm aware of that, i've used the port on the back to connect to my laptop & of course used the side port for my Sony Walkman's, but the end of a charging lead to the Fiio X5iii is smaller, if you follow what i'm trying to say, besides the different type of connection going into the side port, again if you can follow what i'm saying ! ??


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> Yes, i'm aware of that, i've used the port on the back to connect to my laptop & of course used the side port for my Sony Walkman's, but the end of a charging lead to the Fiio X5iii is smaller, if you follow what i'm trying to say, besides the different type of connection going into the side port, again if you can follow what i'm saying ! ??



Both the side port and the rear port are standard usb ports so you just need a dap that can output digital over usb and a cable with the correct terminations and then it should work


----------



## Rob49

nc8000 said:


> with the correct terminations



....and that's what i'm asking.....does anyone have a link to a cable that will "fit" with the FiioX5iii ?


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> ....and that's what i'm asking.....does anyone have a link to a cable that will "fit" with the FiioX5iii ?



The Fiio has microUSB out and I assume a microUSB to usbA cable for charging comes in the box and that ought to work for connecting the Fiio to the rear port of the TA


----------



## Rob49

nc8000 said:


> The Fiio has microUSB out and I assume a microUSB to usbA cable for charging comes in the box and that ought to work for connecting the Fiio to the rear port of the TA



It's a USB B on the back of the TA isn't it ?? So the included micro cable does not fit that port. I do appreciate you trying to help, as you always do ! )


----------



## Lookout57

You would need a USB B to micro USB adapter to use the Walkman port with the Fiio Cable. Or a micro USB to USB A cable to use the rear port.


----------



## Rob49 (Jun 16, 2020)

Lookout57 said:


> You would need a USB B to micro USB adapter to use the Walkman port with the Fiio Cable. Or a micro USB to USB A cable to use the rear port.



Thank you for that. I will look on Amazon this evening. It's all very confusing with all these A, B, ( & C's ! ) So it's an adapter i need inorder to use the Fiio.


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> Thank you for that. I will look on Amazon this evening. It's allvery confusing with all these A, B, ( & C's ! ) So it's an adapter i need inorder to use the Fiio.



Or a cable with the right terminations from the start. And yes there are many different usb terminations, off hand I can think of A, B, C, mini and micro plus various more or less proprietary variants


----------



## Rob49

nc8000 said:


> Or a cable with the right terminations from the start. And yes there are many different usb terminations, off hand I can think of A, B, C, mini and micro plus various more or less proprietary variants



Thanks, but i've only recently dug out my Fiio X5iii and just now had the thought to see if / how it connects.


----------



## adrianm

Does anyone know where one of these might be available in europe? Sony MUCB30UM1. 3m sony kimber 1/4 inch
And did anyone test the Sony Kimber cables vs Axios with the Z1R ?


----------



## Rob49

Sorry again guys, can i just clarify something is the supplied Sony Walkman cable what's known as a USB-C connection, ( into the side port - what i'd describe as "two pronged" )


----------



## Lookout57

Rob49 said:


> Sorry again guys, can i just clarify something is the supplied Sony Walkman cable what's known as a USB-C connection, ( into the side port - what i'd describe as "two pronged" )


It's a microUSB and Sony proprietary. A standard microUSB cable or adapter will plug into the microUSB connector and the Sony proprietary is unused.


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 16, 2020)

Rob49 said:


> Sorry again guys, can i just clarify something is the supplied Sony Walkman cable what's known as a USB-C connection, ( into the side port - what i'd describe as "two pronged" )



No that one is a microUSB plus a Sony addition but a standard microUSB will fit and can be used. 

Here is an article describing all the different usb connector types

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Connectors

I seem to remember something about the rear port accepting higher res music than the side port but can’t find it.


----------



## Damz87

adrianm said:


> Does anyone know where one of these might be available in europe? Sony MUCB30UM1. 3m sony kimber 1/4 inch
> And did anyone test the Sony Kimber cables vs Axios with the Z1R ?



I had both cables for a couple of weeks before I sold the Sony Kimber. I felt that the Axios smoothes out the treble and brought a bit more balance to the overall sound. The bass had a bit better clarity and definition too. Obviously not a night and day difference as to be expected with a cable upgrade, but a nice refinement. Whether that’s worth the huge price difference is questionable if you’re only looking at it from a sq perspective, but I like the look and feel of the axios so to me it was worth it.


----------



## adrianm

Damz87 said:


> I had both cables for a couple of weeks before I sold the Sony Kimber. I felt that the Axios smoothes out the treble and brought a bit more balance to the overall sound. The bass had a bit better clarity and definition too. Obviously not a night and day difference as to be expected with a cable upgrade, but a nice refinement. Whether that’s worth the huge price difference is questionable if you’re only looking at it from a sq perspective, but I like the look and feel of the axios so to me it was worth it.


It's so weird how most of the audible improvements come down to the same thing,smoothing out the treble ,better clarity and definition of the bass,less bloat.Exact same thing i noticed when i've added the mains filter.Makes me wonder if it's not all just reducing EMI/RF.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> It's so weird how most of the audible improvements come down to the same thing,smoothing out the treble ,better clarity and definition of the bass,less bloat.Exact same thing i noticed when i've added the mains filter.Makes me wonder if it's not all just reducing EMI/RF.


Or perhaps neutrino interference. 🙃


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Or perhaps neutrino interference. 🙃


Yes,yes,nothing matters.I'm skeptical as well but i usually like to go with the assumption that not everyone else is crazy .
My cable should finally arrive today and i guess i'll see. what differences i hear,if any.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Yes,yes,nothing matters.I'm skeptical as well but i usually like to go with the assumption that not everyone else is crazy .
> My cable should finally arrive today and i guess i'll see. what differences i hear,if any.


To quote Chapelle: it's jokes, people! 

But to be clear I don't think anyone here is crazy (ok, _most _are not crazy), I just think there are simpler explanations.


----------



## adrianm

Simpler than EMI/RF,while the concept is complicated it's also proven,unlike what? The extra 0.0001% purity in the copper or the silver plating adds so much conductivity that the signal is completely transformed? Most cables above a minimum quality made from the same material measure almost ,if not, identical from what i've read.
   A guy who worked at Kimber explained at one point  on a forum that the Axios line is more or less the same as the one of their more basic lines ,just twice the price.Yet people swear by them.So what's the difference then?


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Simpler than EMI/RF,while the concept is complicated it's also proven,unlike what? The extra 0.0001% purity in the copper or the silver plating adds so much conductivity that the signal is completely transformed? Most cables above a minimum quality made from the same material measure almost ,if not, identical from what i've read.
> A guy who worked at Kimber explained at one point  on a forum that the Axios line is more or less the same as the one of their more basic lines ,just twice the price.Yet people swear by them.So what's the difference then?


I don't have the answer, but I do have an opinion. Hint: the brain also works with electrical signals. 

People are ready to believe that their computer is susceptible to everything imaginable, but they rarely stop to think about their other computer.


----------



## adrianm

I think calling everything under the sun placebo is an over-simplification.Electronics and headphones/speakers aside,most of it probably is though.To some degree.


----------



## adrianm

The cable is here though and it does indeed change the sound,for the better? Hard to say,at the moment it's just weird.It does indeed tame the highs a bit,which never bothered me and i'm not sure i like it on some tracks,but it's really welcome on some tracks which sounded harsh at times.Feels like it's basically more of the Sony sound that i'm trying to get away from,too much of a good thing and all.
   I would be curious to try a pure silver cable with them,has anyone?


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> I would be curious to try a pure silver cable with them,has anyone?



That would be an interesting comparison. Broad general consensus seems to be that the full size Z1R benefits noticeably from using the kimber balanced cable compared to the stock balanced. I'm just using the kimber from the start without comparing just to save myself the trouble and second-guessing.

I'm more interested in that funky large power cable going into the TA. Are you the user who had dirty power issues at their building?


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> That would be an interesting comparison. Broad general consensus seems to be that the full size Z1R benefits noticeably from using the kimber balanced cable compared to the stock balanced. I'm just using the kimber from the start without comparing just to save myself the trouble and second-guessing.
> 
> I'm more interested in that funky large power cable going into the TA. Are you the user who had dirty power issues at their building?


Yes,and that's the single best improvement i could find for the TA,the cable + the mains filter.Difference was far more dramatic to me than with anything else.Hard to a/b it again now because i'd have to move stuff around.
  It's this combo : 
https://www.hifisound.de/en/Hifi-Ac...ower-Socket-incl-Premier-Power-Cable-C13.html


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> I think calling everything under the sun placebo is an over-simplification.


There's no need to go to extremes. 

It would be just as silly of me to deny that there are real differences to be heard, as it would be to think all impressions are based in reality.


----------



## adrianm

Midrange seems improved as well, at first i thought it sounded "smooth " but at the cost of some clarity,but i know we sometimes interpret brightness as clarity.Overall i love it though,well worth the money.  Apparently not "fake news"  .
Just sad that it's balanced and i'll have to let it go if i do send the TA back.


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> Just sad that it's balanced and i'll have to let it go if i do send the TA back.



You could get a 4.4mm to 3.5mm adapter. You wouldn't get the supposed benefits of a balanced output, but you'd still keep the acoustic benefits of the cable material itself.


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> The cable is here though and it does indeed change the sound,for the better? Hard to say,at the moment it's just weird.It does indeed tame the highs a bit,which never bothered me and i'm not sure i like it on some tracks,but it's really welcome on some tracks which sounded harsh at times.Feels like it's basically more of the Sony sound that i'm trying to get away from,too much of a good thing and all.
> I would be curious to try a pure silver cable with them,has anyone?



I've not been following all posts. Is that an AXIOS cable ?


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> The extra 0.0001% purity in the copper or the silver plating adds so much conductivity that the signal is completely transformed? Most cables above a minimum quality made from the same material measure almost ,if not, identical from what i've read.
> A guy who worked at Kimber explained at one point  on a forum that the Axios line is more or less the same as the one of their more basic lines ,just twice the price.Yet people swear by them.So what's the difference then?





adrianm said:


> Midrange seems improved as well, at first i thought it sounded "smooth " but at the cost of some clarity,but i know we sometimes interpret brightness as clarity.Overall i love it though,well worth the money.  Apparently not "fake news"  .


That was quick.


----------



## candlejack

Rob49 said:


> I've not been following all posts. Is that an AXIOS cable ?


Nope, just the _"pleb"_ kimber.


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> You could get a 4.4mm to 3.5mm adapter. You wouldn't get the supposed benefits of a balanced output, but you'd still keep the acoustic benefits of the cable material itself.





Rob49 said:


> I've not been following all posts. Is that an AXIOS cable ?


No,it's a Sony Kimber


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> That was quick.


Well those were some immediate impressions since i still had the impressions of the old cable fresh in my mind and i've been listening to the same 10 songs over and over for a bout a week now.I would've doubted there were any real differences if i had to look for them for a day or two.The most obvious impression is ..it sounds different,and i'm still getting used to it but i like it. Don't have the time  or patience for endless a/b-ing, have to work


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> You could get a 4.4mm to 3.5mm adapter. You wouldn't get the supposed benefits of a balanced output, but you'd still keep the acoustic benefits of the cable material itself.


Unless the material of the adapter (which would be 6.3 in my case) would be the same wouldn't it defeat the whole purpose of the cable?


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> I don't have the answer, but I do have an opinion. Hint: the brain also works with electrical signals.
> 
> People are ready to believe that their computer is susceptible to everything imaginable, but they rarely stop to think about their other computer.


Exactly!  Very perceptive.


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> Unless the material of the adapter (which would be 6.3 in my case) would be the same wouldn't it defeat the whole purpose of the cable?



If it's just a plug adapter, and not a short pigtail cable or the like, I'd say it wouldn't alter the sound much if at all.


----------



## adrianm

I guess i'll tackle that problem when i have it.Kinds reminds me of testing the Auralic Vega dac in a showroom though,1k usb cable that i had to use with a cheap usb to lightning connector for the macbook. That didn't alter the sound either,but then again,neither did me streaming from a macbook vs the Dac streaming to itself.That opens up a whole new can of worms.


----------



## Lookout57

adrianm said:


> The cable is here though and it does indeed change the sound,for the better? Hard to say,at the moment it's just weird.It does indeed tame the highs a bit,which never bothered me and i'm not sure i like it on some tracks,but it's really welcome on some tracks which sounded harsh at times.Feels like it's basically more of the Sony sound that i'm trying to get away from,too much of a good thing and all.
> I would be curious to try a pure silver cable with them,has anyone?


Someone awhile back was raving about the AXIOS Ag. I went for the AXIOS Cu as that was more reasonable cost, $847.50 vs $3,662.50 for a 4.4mm 1.5 meter cable.

I've been thinking about getting either a DHC or Norne pure silver cable as either would be half the cost or less of the AXIOS Ag depending on the cable.


----------



## adrianm

Lookout57 said:


> Someone awhile back was raving about the AXIOS Ag. I went for the AXIOS Cu as that was more reasonable cost, $847.50 vs $3,662.50 for a 4.4mm 1.5 meter cable.
> 
> I've been thinking about getting either a DHC or Norne pure silver cable as either would be half the cost or less of the AXIOS Ag depending on the cable.


There's also the Moon Audio Silver Dragon that's even cheaper i think.And back when i got the Z1R like 3 years ago some people were raving about it.Those prices are ridiculous.


----------



## adrianm

TLDR : Audiophiles are raving lunatics


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> TLDR : Audiophiles are raving lunatics


Not all. Don’t consider myself and audiophile either. Not even close to enough experience to understand that. Ain’t got no time for that


----------



## Umwelt

Lookout57 said:


> was more reasonable cost, $847.50 vs $3,662.50 for a 4.4mm 1.5 meter cable.


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Not all. Don’t consider myself and audiophile either. Not even close to enough experience to understand that. Ain’t got no time for that


Completely understand.N00bs don't PwN themselves


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> There's also the Moon Audio Silver Dragon that's even cheaper i think.And back when i got the Z1R like 3 years ago some people were raving about it.Those prices are ridiculous.


I have several Dragon cables that I purchased from the sales area for half or less of Moon‘s cost.  Yes cable prices ARE high, but that Chord Dave you are looking at isn‘t exactly cheap!


----------



## adrianm

I mea


Gadget67 said:


> I have several Dragon cables that I purchased from the sales area for half or less of Moon‘s cost.  Yes cable prices ARE high, but that Chord Dave you are looking at isn‘t exactly cheap!


I meant the Kimbers  that's why i recommended the Dragons.I might try one when i eventually get the Dave.System synergy and all that.


----------



## darmccombs

adrianm said:


> Midrange seems improved as well, at first i thought it sounded "smooth " but at the cost of some clarity,but i know we sometimes interpret brightness as clarity.Overall i love it though,well worth the money.  Apparently not "fake news"  .
> Just sad that it's balanced and i'll have to let it go if i do send the TA back.


Your impressions of the Sony Kimber match mine and many others.


----------



## adrianm

darmccombs said:


> Your impressions of the Sony Kimber match mine and many others.


Don't tell Candlejack though


----------



## Lookout57

Gadget67 said:


> I have several Dragon cables that I purchased from the sales area for half or less of Moon‘s cost.  Yes cable prices ARE high, but that Chord Dave you are looking at isn‘t exactly cheap!


I have Dragon cables for my LCD-X and HE400i and found them underwhelming.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Don't tell Candlejack though


No worries, man, I've tried my fair share of cables. My whole reality is not about to come crumbling down.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> No worries, man, I've tried my fair share of cables. My whole reality is not about to come crumbling down.


And what were your impressions?


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> And what were your impressions?


Any differences, if present, are insignificant to me.


----------



## Gadget67

Lookout57 said:


> I have Dragon cables for my LCD-X and HE400i and found them underwhelming.


The silver dragon seems to pair well with the Utopia and Stellia.  I also have an LCD-X and found that my ZMF 2K copper is preferable to the silver dragon.  The LCD-X did seem to pair well with a silver dragon V2 dual XLR through my Schitt Mjolnir/Gungir combination but I haven’t used that in a while.


----------



## Lookout57

Gadget67 said:


> The silver dragon seems to pair well with the Utopia and Stellia.  I also have an LCD-X and found that my ZMF 2K copper is preferable to the silver dragon.  The LCD-X did seem to pair well with a silver dragon V2 dual XLR through my Schitt Mjolnir/Gungir combination but I haven’t used that in a while.


In my case I have Black Dragon for the LCD-X as that is what they recommended over the Silver. I have the Blue for the HE400i as and I wanted cheap. But since then and thanks to Head-Fi I've found other vendors that have better cables.


----------



## adrianm

While we're on this subject,there don't seem to be any 4.4 to 6.3mm adapters.Only stuff like this :
https://www.amazon.com/Baoblaze-6-35mm-Female-Adapter-Converter/dp/B07F8XNJ88?tag=headfi-20


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> While we're on this subject,there don't seem to be any 4.4 to 6.3mm adapters.Only stuff like this :
> https://www.amazon.com/Baoblaze-6-35mm-Female-Adapter-Converter/dp/B07F8XNJ88?tag=headfi-20


Go to the moon audio page and select audio cable and then adapter.  Looks like they can make one for you.


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> Go to the moon audio page and select audio cable and then adapter.  Looks like they can make one for you.


Great,thanks! Now all they need to do is send me a Dave to test the adapter with


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> While we're on this subject,there don't seem to be any 4.4 to 6.3mm adapters.Only stuff like this :
> https://www.amazon.com/Baoblaze-6-35mm-Female-Adapter-Converter/dp/B07F8XNJ88?tag=headfi-20



That one should do the job so you can use your 4.4 terminated cable with single ended devices with 6.3mm outputs


----------



## adrianm

nc8000 said:


> That one should do the job so you can use your 4.4 terminated cable with single ended devices with 6.3mm outputs


Yeah but  how would that not affect the sound quality since it's a lower quality material and has none of Ray Kimber's tears in it's construction?


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> Yeah but  how would that not affect the sound quality since it's a lower quality material and has none of Ray Kimber's tears in it's construction?


----------



## adrianm

Seriously though,Kimber and others justify their ridiculous prices by advertising super special soldering techniques and materials (pure ofc copper,not that special),how could a non soldered,occ copper cable adapter connection not undo any benefits.Apparently Moon audio doesn't have this kind of adapter either,i guess 4.4 is not that common yet.


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> Seriously though,Kimber and others justify their ridiculous prices by advertising super special soldering techniques and materials (pure ofc copper,not that special),how could a non soldered,occ copper cable adapter connection not undo any benefits.Apparently Moon audio doesn't have this kind of adapter either,i guess 4.4 is not that common yet.


I was able to configure it at moon’s site.


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> Seriously though,Kimber and others justify their ridiculous prices by advertising super special soldering techniques and materials (pure ofc copper,not that special),how could a non soldered,occ copper cable adapter connection not undo any benefits.Apparently Moon audio doesn't have this kind of adapter either,i guess 4.4 is not that common yet.



Indeed. I terminate for my main use and then have adaptors for secondary use


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> Seriously though,Kimber and others justify their ridiculous prices by advertising super special soldering techniques and materials (pure ofc copper,not that special),how could a non soldered,occ copper cable adapter connection not undo any benefits.Apparently Moon audio doesn't have this kind of adapter either,i guess 4.4 is not that common yet.



Think of such adapters and extensions as potential loss points, but not as gates.

IMO when it comes to analogue audio material and construction make an impact after certain length in the leads. So cables do matter for analogue signals (i.e. what comes out of your DAC), as opposed to what goes into it (digital signals, with the exception of an analogue input of course). But, again, mainly for leads of certain length--above a couple of inches/few centimeters. Connectors themselves don't really matter.

So a very short pigtail with "generic" materials + regular length cable (1m+) of good quality = the benefits of most or all of the "good quality" portion will be preserved. It's not like the other portion acts as a gate that only lets generic level quality through. It's only a potential point of signal degradation at worst--and the longer it is, the more chance of degradation, the shorter, the less risk. Therefore a direct plug adapter is even less reason for concern, regardless of material.


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> I was able to configure it at moon’s site.


Thanks,i was looking for an adapter,not a cable,but tbh at that price + vat+ import fees to EU,it'll end up costing as much or more than another sony kimber 3m cable.If i could only find one in the EU.Or even japan,i barely found this one.


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> Think of such adapters and extensions as potential loss points, but not as gates.
> 
> IMO when it comes to analogue audio material and construction make an impact after certain length in the leads. So cables do matter for analogue signals (i.e. what comes out of your DAC), as opposed to what goes into it (digital signals, with the exception of an analogue input of course). But, again, mainly for leads of certain length--above a couple of inches/few centimeters. Connectors themselves don't really matter.
> 
> So a very short pigtail with "generic" materials + regular length cable (1m+) of good quality = the benefits of most or all of the "good quality" portion will be preserved. It's not like the other portion acts as a gate that only lets generic level quality through. It's only a potential point of signal degradation at worst--and the longer it is, the more chance of degradation, the shorter, the less risk. Therefore a direct plug adapter is even less reason for concern, regardless of material.


Thanks,i was thinking the contact points themselves might be points of signal degradation.


----------



## Umwelt

Really, _any_ analogue signal cable is just a test of signal degradation. Nothing more. It won't _add_ any improvement the signal, it can only take away from it. The cable will simply deliver it with more or less degradation. A premium is paid for minimal degradation, not for improvement or upgrade to the signal.


----------



## adrianm

Yes,ofc,but paying a premium for a cable that supposedly degrades the signal less , just to add another point of degradation hardly makes sense.Especially if said adapter costs almost as much as the cable itself. Isn't it easier to just have the cable reterminated?


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> Yes,ofc,but paying a premium for a cable that supposedly degrades the signal less , just to add another point of degradation hardly makes sense.Especially if said adapter costs almost as much as the cable itself. Isn't it easier to just have the cable reterminated?



Oh definitely, I wasn't suggesting you should buy that stupidly priced $170 patch cable from Silver Dragon. More that if you find an adequately priced adapter, it would be fine. And yes, reterminating the cable is also fine, though that requires having expertise or paying someone that does.


----------



## candlejack

Umwelt said:


> IMO when it comes to analogue audio material and construction make an impact after certain length in the leads. So cables do matter for analogue signals (i.e. what comes out of your DAC), as opposed to what goes into it (digital signals, with the exception of an analogue input of course). But, again, mainly for leads of certain length--above a couple of inches/few centimeters. Connectors themselves don't really matter.


I guess you haven't yet heard of the people who paid in excess of $1,000 to have their walkmans 'modded' to change 3-4 cm of copper cable.


----------



## Lookout57

When looking at upgrade cables you want OCC over OFC.

From norneaudio.com:

"OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast) is the name given to the casting process developed to help defeat annealing issues and virtually eliminate all grain boundaries in copper or silver with a unique patented process. The OCC casting method uses specialized heated moulds in order to draw a single crystal up to 125 meters in length. With only a single crystal in very long lengths, there is an unimpeded free path for the best possible signal transfer. Along with this superior single long crystal structure, OCC provides copper and silver with the least possible oxides and other impurities.

In high contrast to OCC, there are other lower grade coppers such as OFC with a multitude of grain boundaries and other impurities. OFC (Oxygen Free Copper) has around 400 crystals per foot and despite its name has an oxygen content of about 10 ppm. Having less oxygen content and less overall impurities compared OFC. OFC has a plethora of grain boundaries per foot that the signal must route around and pass."

There are more details if you click the link.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> I guess you haven't yet heard of the people who paid in excess of $1,000 to have their walkmans 'modded' to change 3-4 cm of copper cable.


I plan on keeping my Walkman players stock. Don't want to complicate the situation


----------



## Umwelt

This conversation made me want to run a quick test in my setup.

MDR-Z1R + MUC-B20SB1 (Sony kimber 2m cable) going directly into TA balanced-1 output

vs.

Same as above + $22 Youkamoo 4.4mm to two-3.5mm patch cable + two $10 kabeldirekt 3m extension stereo cables into TA balanced-2 output

A/B played back a couple of very familiar songs, frequency response and dynamic range test tracks.

Results: they sound the f'ing same. I guess even cheap cables can be made well enough nowadays to not cause audible degradation. 

Just a quick test with potentially flawed ears though, so don't take this as science


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> This conversation made me want to run a quick test in my setup.
> 
> MDR-Z1R + MUC-B20SB1 (Sony kimber 2m cable) going directly into TA balanced-1 output
> 
> ...


Nice,any chance you can test that with an unbalanced output? I mean there will be clear differences but i'm curious to the extent.


----------



## adrianm

Same cable i got,interesting to hear if you hear any differences vs stock cable as well


----------



## adrianm

Has anyone tried atreaming tidal from an ipad/iphone to the TA via usb? Apparently the ios app even does the first unfold


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> Same cable i got,interesting to hear if you hear any differences vs stock cable as well



I'd have to dig out the stock balanced cable, maybe later. 

And in spite of those results, when possible I'll still use the direct connection, just to appease any small paranoia. But I'll never be afraid to use cheap extensions for convenience, that's for sure.

I do like the rugged feel of the kimber one though. I guess the thing you can say about "upgrade" cables is that they're generally more durable. Then again, if a cheap cable breaks down in a year or two, you're out $10 and just get another one. If your $800 cable does happen to break though...


----------



## candlejack (Jun 17, 2020)

Lookout57 said:


> When looking at upgrade cables you want OCC over OFC.
> 
> From norneaudio.com:
> 
> ...


I'm currently working on a project for a scientific satellite. I should ask the electrical/electronic engineers what kind of copper cables they used in the spacecraft.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Well, the TA auction didn't work out as it went past the price I was willing to get for a used one. Just gotta be patient as Mercari and other shops don't have it in stock.


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> Well, the TA auction didn't work out as it went past the price I was willing to get for a used one. Just gotta be patient as Mercari and other shops don't have it in stock.


How much do you think a used TA is worth?


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 18, 2020)

candlejack said:


> How much do you think a used TA is worth?


It was going for 170,000 yen used with shipping and the warranty was only 1 week. I think the warranty is too short. $1591 and it's in very good condition, minor scratches throughout


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> It was going for 170,000 yen used with shipping and the warranty was only 1 week. I think the warranty is too short. $1591 and it's in very good condition, minor scratches throughout


That seems too steep. Near mint on the forum can be had for $1,200 last time I checked. I would've sold you mine, but Europe to Japan is too inconvenient.  Maybe @adrianm forgets to return his in time and will have to put it up for sale here.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> That seems too steep. Near mint on the forum can be had for $1,200 last time I checked. I would've sold you mine, but Europe to Japan is too inconvenient.  Maybe @adrianm forgets to return his in time and will have to put it up for sale here.


Wow really? In Japan, it's been getting more expensive because of the pandemic with people staying at home and is selling out in some places, especially used


----------



## adrianm (Jun 18, 2020)

For some reason Amazon extended the return window,it's now end of July instead of June.Still keeping it at the moment though. 1200 seems low ,maybe in the us where there's no vat?


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> For some reason Amazon extended the return window,it's now end of July instead of June.Still keeping it at the moment though. 1200 seems low ,maybe in the us where there's no vat?


I purchased mine used in literally like new condition for $1299 in December of last year.  I think $1100-1300 depending on condition is about right.


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> I purchased mine used in literally like new condition for $1299 in December of last year.  I think $1100-1300 depending on condition is about right.


Well like i said,no vat.in europe add 20% basically.i got mine for 1100 something pounds,so like 1400$ open box and it’s the best deal i’ve seen so far


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> Well like i said,no vat.in europe add 20% basically.i got mine for 1100 something pounds,so like 1400$ open box and it’s the best deal i’ve seen so far



Don't they have sales tax in US that varies from state to state ?
in Denmark VAT on EVERYTHING is 25%


----------



## Gadget67 (Jun 18, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> Don't they have sales tax in US that varies from state to state ?
> in Denmark VAT on EVERYTHING is 25%


Well, obviously, the benefit of buying gently used from forums like this is no tax.  Otherwise it’s 8% where I live.  I can imagine that 25% vat must seem truly outrageous, but we pay in many other ways here in the US so it’s not an apples to apples comparison.  Some states in the US also don’t have sales tax but it’s only a few.


----------



## adrianm

19% here.Even more outrageous when you buy a new car/apartment


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 18, 2020)

Gadget67 said:


> Well, obviously, the benefit of buying gently used from forums like this is no tax.  Otherwise it’s 8% where I live.  I can imagine that 25% vat must seem truly outrageous, but we pay in many other ways here in the US so it’s not an apples to apples comparison.  Some states in the US also don’t have sales tax but it’s only a few.



So do we in Denmark with avegage income tax close to 50% and if you buy a new car you have to pay 180% registration tax and then 25% VAT on top of that effectively meaning we have to pay for 3 cars when we buy one. Petrol price is atm. About $1.2 per litre petrol. On the other hand we have high wages and in general loads of “free” benefits like health, elder care, education and so on.

And we have to pay VAT and import taxes on anything that comes from non EU countries, also on second hand items from like this forum


----------



## adrianm (Jun 18, 2020)

Our average income tax is 55%  and 19% vat on everything,not quite as big on cars though.But that's ok though,we have crappy wages 
Edit :  41.5% apparently,still double most EU countries


----------



## Lookout57

nc8000 said:


> Don't they have sales tax in US that varies from state to state ?
> in Denmark VAT on EVERYTHING is 25%


Correct, there are 2 states that have no Sales tax, New Hampshire and Delaware. Others it ranges from 1.76% in Alaska to 9.22% in some parts of Alabama,


----------



## Lookout57

nc8000 said:


> So do we in Denmark with avegage income tax close to 50% and if you buy a new car you have to pay 180% registration tax and then 25% VAT on top of that effectively meaning we have to pay for 3 cars when we buy one. Petrol price is atm. About $1.2 per litre petrol. On the other hand we have high wages and in general loads of “free” benefits like health, elder care, education and so on.
> 
> And we have to pay VAT and import taxes on anything that comes from non EU countries, also on second hand items from like this forum


I remember working with someone who lived in Sweden and I remember him saying the income tax was like 805 but like Denmark has a lot of government provided benefits.

Also is it Sweden where speeding tickets are based on your income?


----------



## nc8000

Lookout57 said:


> I remember working with someone who lived in Sweden and I remember him saying the income tax was like 805 but like Denmark has a lot of government provided benefits.
> 
> Also is it Sweden where speeding tickets are based on your income?



Denmark and Sweden compete for the highest total taxation level in the world

Finland. Up to 1 months wage I think. I recall a Nokia manager who ended up with a speeding ticket of several hundred thiusend USD.


----------



## Lookout57

nc8000 said:


> Denmark and Sweden compete for the highest total taxation level in the world
> 
> Finland. Up to 1 months wage I think. I recall a Nokia manager who ended up with a speeding ticket of several hundred thiusend USD.


I remember reading some rich guy where the fine was something like $1.2 M as he made a couple of hundred million a year.


----------



## adrianm

Yeah i read that too.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


>


I had another look at this photo and just now noticed the headband is starting to show some wear, but it's had to see clearly. Can you take a few more picture that focus on that?

Any more thoughts on the cable? Are you keeping it?


----------



## adrianm

Yes,it is showing wear, they have seen heavy use for the past 3 years,almost daily ,lugged to the office and back,a bit of the gold on the 3.5 jack has worn off as well.


----------



## candlejack (Jun 18, 2020)

adrianm said:


> Yes,it is showing wear, they have seen heavy use for the past 3 years,almost daily ,lugged to the office and back,a bit of the gold on the 3.5 jack has worn off as well.


But is is also flaking or just creasing? 

Kinda makes me rethink my position that Sony build quality it top notch. The design is definitely solid, but to have a material break down after 3 years is not acceptable. 

Something similar is happening to the IER, but there it's such an insignificant part of the overall build that I don't think it matters. With the MDR headband though, this is not user repairable, so it sucks if you have to send it in, pay for repair and not have it for a month or more, simply because you used it for 3 years.


----------



## adrianm

The cable i'm going to keep for now,i was only going to get rid of it because it wouldn't be compatible with Dave but i've chilled a bit on that for now. Tbh i've been doing more research on this stuff than work last few months and it's getting exhausting.For the last few weeks i've been enjoying the TA a lot less (since the Dave comparison) ,until i stopped listening for a day or 2,now i'm enjoying it more again ,and i attributed some of that to the cable.
    But it's probably a reset and i'm starting to forget what the Dave sounds like . Hedonic Adaptation and all.Plus i've got other stuff going on now and it kinda puts things in perspective.
    So i wanted to test the old stock balanced cable again.The differences are there, but less so than i thought,it does improve the midrange a bit and roll off the highs, making it less fatiguing i guess,mellower sounding.But they're really not as big as i had thought.It's like hardware EQ. The main reason i got it though was the build quality and extra length,the 1.2m was kinda short for desktop use.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> But is is also flaking or just creasing?


Mostly creasing,there is a little bit of flaking if you press hard enough


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> But is is also flaking or just creasing?
> 
> Kinda makes me rethink my position that Sony build quality it top notch. The design is definitely solid, but to have a material break down after 3 years is not acceptable.
> 
> Something similar is happening to the IER, but there it's such an insignificant part of the overall build that I don't think it matters. With the MDR headband though, this is not user repairable, so it sucks if you have to send it in, pay for repair and not have it for a month or more, simply because you used it for 3 years.


Go to the Focal Stellia and Clear forums if you want to see complaints about durability.  The Stellia leather discolors from sweat and the clear has pads that appear to wear out quickly.  Relatively speaking, Sony is bullet proof.  I’d suggest using leather bicycle handlebar grip wrap or perforated tennis racquet grip wrapping as a fix.  I think that’s not unacceptable wear for three years of constant use.


adrianm said:


> Mostly creasing,there is a little bit of flaking if you press hard enough


probably too late but there may be leather conditioning cream that might help.


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> Go to the Focal Stellia and Clear forums if you want to see complaints about durability.  The Stellia leather discolors from sweat and the clear has pads that appear to wear out quickly.  Relatively speaking, Sony is bullet proof.  I’d suggest using leather bicycle handlebar grip wrap or perforated tennis racquet grip wrapping as a fix.  I think that’s not unacceptable wear for three years of constant use.
> 
> probably too late but there may be leather conditioning cream that might help.


Yeah i'm not complaining for the kinda wear they've seen.Plus comfort is the same.I was going to try conditioning but from what i've seen,including on the Stellia forums, it only made it worse.That's one of the main things that deterred me from the Stellia.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> so it sucks if you have to send it in, pay for repair and not have it for a month or more, simply because you used it for 3 years.


I'm not sure where i'd even send it to.But considering the 200+$ for the earpads , probably gonna be rough.


----------



## candlejack

The top doesn't feel like leather, so why would leather products work?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Well, found the TA with a 1 month warranty for 155,000 yen used. Good enough for me. Paid and now the wait begins


----------



## Gadget67

candlejack said:


> The top doesn't feel like leather, so why would leather products work?


The Sony site seems to say it’s leather; a replacement headband is available from Encompass, a Sony parts supplier for $158.95 and earpads are $65-75 each from the same supplier.
https://sony.encompass.com/model/SONMDRZ1R


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> Yeah i'm not complaining for the kinda wear they've seen.Plus comfort is the same.I was going to try conditioning but from what i've seen,including on the Stellia forums, it only made it worse.That's one of the main things that deterred me from the Stellia.



I've been seriously considering the Stellia's but that now bothers me. No way should an headphone that costs that much, should wear in that way. I have a pair of white OPPO PM3's....well, they were white !! Now there's hardly any of the white left !


----------



## Gadget67

Rob49 said:


> I've been seriously considering the Stellia's but that now bothers me. No way should an headphone that costs that much, should wear in that way. I have a pair of white OPPO PM3's....well, they were white !! Now there's hardly any of the white left !


Humidity and the resulting sweat are the real killers; my listening area isn’t air conditioned so I’ve moved my TA to a room that is.  I’m using it like a portable by plugging it in where I’m using it.  A bit inconvenient but at least I’m staying cool and not sweating on my headphones!


----------



## Umwelt

Gadget67 said:


> The Sony site seems to say it’s leather; a replacement headband is available from Encompass, a Sony parts supplier for $158.95 and earpads are $65-75 each from the same supplier.



Weirdly, the left pad is $65, but the right pad is $155 

Also I imagine that amount of wear on the headband is not typical after 3 years, and adrianm did mention he took was using them daily and moving them around from home to office. With exclusive home use and good care they should stay in good shape for much longer.


On another note, I kept feeling that direct analogue input into the TA yielded underwhelming volume even when using high gain, but found a good solution. Get analogue audio from my stereo receiver's phone output first and feed that into the TA, using the volume from the receiver as pre-gain. The result is great, rich analogue sound. Makes me even want to do the same with my digital sources by routing them through the receiver, though that would be a D-A-D-A chain.. that'd be double the conversion steps!


----------



## Gadget67

Umwelt said:


> Weirdly, the left pad is $65, but the right pad is $155


Wow—I thought you were joking!  I saw the graphic for the left earpad and assumed (obviously incorrectly) the right would be the same.  I may email them because now I just want to know!


----------



## nc8000

Gadget67 said:


> Wow—I thought you were joking!  I saw the graphic for the left earpad and assumed (obviously incorrectly) the right would be the same.  I may email them because now I just want to know!



In Denmark both pads cost the same at about $100 including our 25% VAT


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


> In Denmark both pads cost the same at about $100 including our 25% VAT


Aren’t there after market ones for cheap so they can be replaced if they wear out? Although using wipes to clean them should maintain them


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> Aren’t there after market ones for cheap so they can be replaced if they wear out? Although using wipes to clean them should maintain them



There don't seem to be. The obvious suspect would be Dekoni but they don't have one


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Aren’t there after market ones for cheap so they can be replaced if they wear out? Although using wipes to clean them should maintain them


There are these but...ew
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Leather-Ea...=z1r+pads&qid=1592548602&s=electronics&sr=1-5


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> There are these but...ew
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Leather-Ea...=z1r+pads&qid=1592548602&s=electronics&sr=1-5


Those are for the Z1R. If there are none for the Z7M2, so be it


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> There are these but...ew
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Leather-Ea...=z1r+pads&qid=1592548602&s=electronics&sr=1-5



Looks like they don’t include the mounting ring so you’ll have to scavenge that from a pair of stock pads


----------



## adrianm

nc8000 said:


> Looks like they don’t include the mounting ring so you’ll have to scavenge that from a pair of stock pads


They don't even look like they would fit anyway and would probably sound bad,I was just showing a "cheap" option.One of my pads is flaking a bit,but since i shave every 2-3 days and my beard is pretty rough ,i'd call this condition after 3 years a win.On my Oppo PM-3 it was a lot worse after 1 year.Not to mention all gaming headsets.


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> Those are for the Z1R. If there are none for the Z7M2, so be it


I heard in a review that the Z7-2 pads are not removable.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> I heard in a review that the Z7-2 pads are not removable.


When you see how the screw is removed, they can be replaced


----------



## Sanlitun (Jun 19, 2020)

darmccombs said:


> I guess I’m the odd man out on the DSD Upsampling.  I think it rolls things off dynamics-wise and it seems to make the voices further away, almost like going from an indoor venue to an outdoor one.  Admittedly, I’m still early in my testing, but I find myself turning the DSD off more and more.



As well I am not a fan of the DSD upsampling. It’s too smooth and slurred and it does remove some of the spatial detail. I think some native DSD files sound really good, but overall I am not really a DSD fan.

What I have been doing is setting Audirvana to upsample 44.1 to 352.6 and 96 to 384 as in doing so you bypass the Sony PCM upsampling and sometimes the result is better.


----------



## adrianm

Btw as a follow up for the cable,the build quality is nicer than the stock one,seems more on par with the Z1r and TA now.Cables and stuff aside,i think the biggest influence on sound quality is whether the windows (even in the next room) are open or not.Fine details are a lot less noticeable with any amount of background noise,even with the Z1R ,which is why i don't really see myself going for open headphones,especially since i don't listen at loud volumes.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Btw as a follow up for the cable,the build quality is nicer than the stock one,seems more on par with the Z1r and TA now.Cables and stuff aside,i think the biggest influence on sound quality is whether the windows (even in the next room) are open or not.Fine details are a lot less noticeable with any amount of background noise,even with the Z1R ,which is why i don't really see myself going for open headphones,especially since i don't listen at loud volumes.


Or if one of your neighbors decides to change the tiles in his bathroom. I bet there's always at least one doing that at any given time in your building.


----------



## candlejack

Posted this twice already with no response. Maybe third time's the charm.


candlejack said:


> There's been a lot of talk recently about comparing different amps. There is one thing I've been wondering for a while now, perhaps you can offer your opinions.
> 
> Imagine you are A/B testing two sources: *B* is the _better _source and *W* is the _worse _source. When do you find it's easier to spot the difference in sound quality: when switching (1) from *B* to *W* or (2) from *W* to *B*?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 20, 2020)

adrianm said:


> Btw as a follow up for the cable,the build quality is nicer than the stock one,seems more on par with the Z1r and TA now.Cables and stuff aside,i think the biggest influence on sound quality is whether the windows (even in the next room) are open or not.Fine details are a lot less noticeable with any amount of background noise,even with the Z1R ,which is why i don't really see myself going for open headphones,especially since i don't listen at loud volumes.



I’m not sure if open headphones or closed-back headphones are better. Though here at Head-Fi the general consensus is open-back are better. Though I’ve had both in my history, I tend to gravitate towards closed back? And it’s not always what is technically best that a person likes. I may have gotten used to cup resonance getting a thicker and slower lower midrange response that I hear as correct? Though if you look at design many closed back designs are getting more open. The Foster/Denon AHD7000 is semi open but looks closed. The MDR-Z7 has giant lower ports the size of thumbs. Many so called closed backs are not exactly pure closed backs anymore and also don’t attenuate outside sound as much either. IMO


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> I’m not sure if open headphones or closed-back headphones are better. Though here at Head-Fi the general consensus is open-back are better. Though I’ve had both in my history, I tend to gravitate towards closed back? And it’s not always what is technically best that a person likes. I may have gotten used to cup resonance getting a thicker and slower lower midrange response that I hear as correct? Though if you look at design many closed back designs are getting more open. The Foster/Denon AHD7000 is semi open but looks closed. The MDR-Z7 has giant lower ports the size of thumbs. Many so called closed backs are not exactly pure closed backs anymore and also don’t attenuate outside sound as much either. IMO


The MDR-Z1R and the Z7M2 also have a HUGE open space for closed backs. They did a good job of increasing the openness in both the cans, with the MDR-Z1R definitely being the more open of the two I mentioned


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 20, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> The MDR-Z1R and the Z7M2 also have a HUGE open space for closed backs. They did a good job of increasing the openness in both the cans, with the MDR-Z1R definitely being the more open of the two I mentioned



I even remember in my early teens.........like in 1975, a friends older brother would put expensive headphone systems on my ears and I would chose. They had these $100 Sennheiser open backs and a set of old old giant Koss closed backs. I still remember hearing Iron Man from the Black Sabbath Paranoid album played really loud on the Koss closed backs. Even from then on I’ve always felt closed backs had a different sound, a more clunky rock sound. It’s funny too are even now all these years later there is still a divide between the two sounds. In some ways the MDR-Z1R becomes a very advanced statement of what the closed back can do. And Sony has played with open headphones, yet historically stuff like the MDR-R10 and MDR-Z1R seem to keep the true flagship status for them?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> I even remember in my early teens.........like in 1975, a friends older brother would put expensive headphone systems on my ears and I would chose. They had these $100 Sennheiser open backs and a set of old old giant Koss closed backs. I still remember hearing Iron Man from the Black Sabbath Paranoid album played really loud on the Koss closed backs. Even from then on I’ve always felt closed backs had a different sound, a more clunky rock sound. It’s funny too are even now all these years later there is still a divide between the two sounds. In some ways the MDR-Z1R becomes a very advanced statement of what the closed back can do. And Sony has played with open headphones, yet historically stuff like the MDR-R10 and MDR-Z1R seem to keep the true flagship status for them?


I tested open cans at E-Earphone and it was too hard to block out all the noise. Even knowing that home is quiet, I would hate an over abundance of sound to get in when I listen to music. the Z7M2 did a great job of blocking out most noise when using the TA and the IER-Z1R did an even better job of doing so (I guess, duh, do to the IEM nature)


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Posted this twice already with no response. Maybe third time's the charm.


Wouldn't that be B/W testing ?


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Posted this twice already with no response. Maybe third time's the charm.


I think it's easier to spot differences going from better to worse.But it depends,i usually listen to each more than once.For example with the Auralic Vega G1 i couldn't a/b against my TA,cuz no streamer, but there was no need to,i just hated it,it sounded thin and digital to the point where i preferred the Mojo going by memory alone.With the TT2 vs TA soundstage diminshed, and only got to the same dimensions using the Mscaler.After that i couldn't tell them apart for the life of me,it was weird how identical they sounded.
  *Here i go again gushing about Dave* even though i listened to it first i had the same feeling like when i first tried the Z1R vs Oppo pm-3s.The amount of information coming in was overwhelming for the first few seconds and my brain was still trying to figure out what was happening.A/b-ing the rest after the pretty much pointless,even after going to them and back to Dave.They just sounded like great digital reproductions,and it sounded like real music.They also sounded a lot more congested in "busy" tracks.It had that instrument separation and layering that i always imagined a high end headphone rig having.




Rip wallet.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> I tested open cans at E-Earphone and it was too hard to block out all the noise. Even knowing that home is quiet, I would hate an over abundance of sound to get in when I listen to music. the Z7M2 did a great job of blocking out most noise when using the TA and the IER-Z1R did an even better job of doing so (I guess, duh, do to the IEM nature)



IEMs have different noise occlusion ratings. Also the ported IEMs can offer less in comparison to fully sealed IEMs.


----------



## Gamerlingual

For the rest who own the TA, since it includes the 6.3mm, should I just try all 3 connections and use all the settings? Any recommended sound to go for besides doing low gain and DSD when I get the Z7M2 and the TA tomorrow?


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> For the rest who own the TA, since it includes the 6.3mm, should I just try all 3 connections and use all the settings? Any recommended sound to go for besides doing low gain and DSD when I get the Z7M2 and the TA tomorrow?


Not sure about the Z7M2 but with the Z1R didn't take too long to settle on the balanced connection.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 20, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> For the rest who own the TA, since it includes the 6.3mm, should I just try all 3 connections and use all the settings? Any recommended sound to go for besides doing low gain and DSD when I get the Z7M2 and the TA tomorrow?



Well we determined that 4.4mm is actually slightly less powered than single ended. Not sure if it would vary between headphones. I either used the Z7 or Z1R full-size, don’t remember? Switched between stock single ended cable and Kimber 4.4mm. Which I still only use 4.4mm Kimber all the time. Try DSEE HX too.

Seemed like the MDR-Z1R took about 2 or 3 days of listening till everything gelled together. Could be 100% mental adaptation?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> For the rest who own the TA, since it includes the 6.3mm, should I just try all 3 connections and use all the settings? Any recommended sound to go for besides doing low gain and DSD when I get the Z7M2 and the TA tomorrow?



Check what firmware it’s on.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Well we determined that 4.4mm is actually slightly less powered than single ended. Not sure if it would vary between headphones. I either used the Z7 or Z1R full-size, don’t remember? Switched between stock single ended cable and Kimber 4.4mm. Which I still only use 4.4mm Kimber all the time. Try DSEE HX too.
> 
> Seemed like the MDR-Z1R took about 2 or 3 days of listening till everything gelled together. Could be 100% mental adaptation?


Yea good point. I’ll try your recommendations. The new tips I bought for my IER-Z1R give the IEMs a more 3D sound. Kinda surprising how changing out tips can dramatically change the sound. I don’t know if it’s necessarily better yet, as I need to sample it more. I’m still not sold on getting Kimber since people have said the stock cables for the IER are wonderful and for now the standard jack on the Z7M2 sounded real good with the TA.

I saw the DMP-Z1 and was wondering why it was so overpriced as the only I see that seemed the asking price was the shiny gold knob and the build quality. The menu is the same as the 1A and 1Z. Just seems nuts to charge $8,000 for that equipment. Wow


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Yea good point. I’ll try your recommendations. The new tips I bought for my IER-Z1R give the IEMs a more 3D sound. Kinda surprising how changing out tips can dramatically change the sound. I don’t know if it’s necessarily better yet, as I need to sample it more. I’m still not sold on getting Kimber since people have said the stock cables for the IER are wonderful and for now the standard jack on the Z7M2 sounded real good with the TA.
> 
> I saw the DMP-Z1 and was wondering why it was so overpriced as the only I see that seemed the asking price was the shiny gold knob and the build quality. The menu is the same as the 1A and 1Z. Just seems nuts to charge $8,000 for that equipment. Wow


Well did you listen to it?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Check what firmware it’s on.


You recommend firmware 1.03, right?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Yea good point. I’ll try your recommendations. The new tips I bought for my IER-Z1R give the IEMs a more 3D sound. Kinda surprising how changing out tips can dramatically change the sound. I don’t know if it’s necessarily better yet, as I need to sample it more. I’m still not sold on getting Kimber since people have said the stock cables for the IER are wonderful and for now the standard jack on the Z7M2 sounded real good with the TA.
> 
> I saw the DMP-Z1 and was wondering why it was so overpriced as the only I see that seemed the asking price was the shiny gold knob and the build quality. The menu is the same as the 1A and 1Z. Just seems nuts to charge $8,000 for that equipment. Wow



Don’t forget to make sure they included the remote. Also the side Walkman connection cable.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Don’t forget to make sure they included the remote. Also the side Walkman connection cable.


It has all the accessories. The pictures showed it was complete. Good point but also need to make sure the cables work


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> You recommend firmware 1.03, right?



Your going to need to download on Windows the firmware update. Then you just need to decide for yourself. I used 1.02 forever. I liked 1.02 but think 1.03 is slightly better. You can still find 1.00 and 1.03 online but Sony has removed 1.02 and 1.01. If you do open the updater it will show you first on the left what firmware your on and ask if you want to move forward for an update or not. Someone posted that you could see the TA firmwares without the Sony update software installed in a Windows machine and I was not able to check. The only firmware it would show was the Windows driver that Windows uses.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> You recommend firmware 1.03, right?



Benefits of Update:


Improve the symptom which misidentifies 32bit/384kHz source as 24bit/384kHz.




https://www.sony.co.id/en/electronics/support/downloads/Y0015296


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Benefits of Update:
> 
> 
> Improve the symptom which misidentifies 32bit/384kHz source as 24bit/384kHz.
> ...


Sony stability works for me! Thanks!


----------



## Gamerlingual

I’m guessing people wanna see the pictures when the packages come in tomorrow?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 20, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> I’m guessing people wanna see the pictures when the packages come in tomorrow?



You sound like an expecting father. 👶


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> Well did you listen to it?


If you did, let me know


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> If you did, let me know


Nope,i was just curious,i have no place to listen to it.Probably wouldn't buy it anyway for multiple reasons.


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> Nope,i was just curious,i have no place to listen to it.Probably wouldn't buy it anyway for multiple reasons.


I’m sure your list may require a thesis. You had lots of reasons for choosing that Dave or whatever it’s called. Tomorrow I’ll be going to Akihabara with my wife for dinner as they have a Carl’s Jr. there. So I’ll check the DMP-Z1 out


----------



## adrianm

Haha ,indeed.I just figured i'd spare everyone. DAVE stands for ‘Digital to Analogue Veritas in Extremis’ pompous,i know.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Haha ,indeed.I just figured i'd spare everyone. DAVE stands for ‘Digital to Analogue Veritas in Extremis’ pompous,i know.


I thought that was a joke, so I laughed. Then I started to have some doubts, so I googled... it's not a joke.

Btw, what's with the display on the D.A.V.E., it looks like something from a 70s B-movie?


----------



## adrianm (Jun 20, 2020)

candlejack said:


> I thought that was a joke, so I laughed. Then I started to have some doubts, so I googled... it's not a joke.
> 
> Btw, what's with the display on the D.A.V.E., it looks like something from a 70s B-movie?


I think i read somewhere a while back that it's based on some old sci-fi movie  i've never heard of (  millennials ) .It also kinda looks like a porthole (probably where the said movie got it's inspiration for the..ship or..robot or whatever).
I do remember the robot or ship's name was also some abbreviation.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> I think i read somewhere a while back that it's based on some old sci-fi movie  i've never heard of (  millennials ) .It also kinda looks like a porthole (probably where the said movie got it's inspiration for the..ship or..robot or whatever).
> I do remember the robot or ship's name was also some abbreviation.


What a poor excuse for such a trash display. I like the mechanical design though and if they managed to make use of the entire disk of the display, it would've been nice. I guess 10k can only get you so much.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> What a poor excuse for such a trash display. I like the mechanical design though and if they managed to make use of the entire disk of the display, it would've been nice. I guess 10k can only get you so much.


HEY! It's was only 2016!


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> HEY! It's was only 2016!


Good point, my bad.


----------



## darmccombs (Jun 20, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


> Some have used that XLR with an XLR to 4.4mm adapter. Strangely we just found out single ended is louder than 4.4mm? So it makes you wonder if XLR is the same output at the same volume # as single ended?


I ran into a similar odd issue the other day when listening to the MDR-Z1R and the TA.  I have the 2m Balanced Sony Kimber, and the 1.2m SE Sony Kimber cables.  I did some test using various songs and came to the conclusion that the SE cable sounded better.  The mids and bass were tighter.  I was surprised by this.  I did the swap back and forth several times.

While I don't care weather the balanced or SE is louder, I did expect the balanced to control the mids and bass batter than than the SE.  I realize that the volume levels change between the outputs, and  tried to match those by ear as best I could.  But even trying both outputs at different volumes, I preferred the SE's control.  The balanced seemed to open the soundstage up, but at the expense of the bass and mids sounding loose.

Does anyone have thoughts on this?  For now, I am using the SE cable despite that output delivering less power to the MDRs.

Edit/Update:  I only see this when using Low Gain.  When I use High Gain, then balanced seems to have more control than SE.


----------



## Umwelt

darmccombs said:


> While I don't care weather the balanced or SE is louder, I did expect the balanced to control the mids and bass batter than than the SE. I realize that the volume levels change between the outputs, and tried to match those by ear as best I could. But even trying both outputs at different volumes, I preferred the SE's control. The balanced seemed to open the soundstage up, but at the expense of the bass and mids sounding loose.



Sounds interesting. What I'll do is I'll connect my sony kimber balanced cable to a 4.4mm to 3.5mm plug adapter and hook the MDR into the unbalanced output to see if I notice a similar difference.


----------



## darmccombs

Umwelt said:


> Sounds interesting. What I'll do is I'll connect my sony kimber balanced cable to a 4.4mm to 3.5mm plug adapter and hook the MDR into the unbalanced output to see if I notice a similar difference.


Great, I'll be curious to hear your findings.


----------



## Umwelt

For the user obsessed with the DAVE DAC, or anyone else interested, there's one up for sale on Yahoo Auctions right now currently at 700,000 yen (~6500 USD): https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m418651539

There's many proxy services that barely charge any fees, so even with international shipping cost and potential customs charges (minimized if the proxy declares a lower value), it may be a pretty good deal. It already has one bid though.

And man, looking at the remote it includes... how does a 10k device like this settle for a remote that looks like the same cheap chinese remote included with any generic electronic? Is Sony the only one that cares about good taste in this field?


----------



## Damz87

Umwelt said:


> Is Sony the only one that cares about good taste in this field?



Chord products are pretty ugly across their whole range imho lol. Especially compared to Sony who are one of the best (arguably the best) at product design


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> For the user obsessed with the DAVE DAC, or anyone else interested, there's one up for sale on Yahoo Auctions right now currently at 700,000 yen (~6500 USD): https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m418651539
> 
> There's many proxy services that barely charge any fees, so even with international shipping cost and potential customs charges (minimized if the proxy declares a lower value), it may be a pretty good deal. It already has one bid though.
> 
> And man, looking at the remote it includes... how does a 10k device like this settle for a remote that looks like the same cheap chinese remote included with any generic electronic? Is Sony the only one that cares about good taste in this field?


Obsessed seems about right). Thanks but i’ve already negotiated a good price with my dealer,probably cheaper than that one all costs considered.and 5 years warranty.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Obsessed seems about right). Thanks but i’ve already negotiated a good price with my dealer,probably cheaper than that one all costs considered.and 5 years warranty.


Oh yeah, how much?


----------



## adrianm

About as much as used ones go for


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> About as much as used ones go for


So all of a sudden you think it's vulgar to talk money?


----------



## adrianm

Around 6.5k euros


----------



## candlejack

@adrianm Unfortunately this is the only way we learn sometimes. If you're not planning to post your experience here, please let me know in private how it goes.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Damz87 said:


> Chord products are pretty ugly across their whole range imho lol. Especially compared to Sony who are one of the best (arguably the best) at product design



I just can’t handle simply the name?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Welp, Part 1 is here


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Welp, Part 1 is here



Cheers!


----------



## Damz87

Gamerlingual said:


> Welp, Part 1 is here



Now all you need is the dock and AQ Carbon cable and you’ll have the Sony TA endgame setup!


----------



## Umwelt

Damz87 said:


> Now all you need is the dock and AQ Carbon cable and you’ll have the Sony TA endgame setup!



Don't.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 21, 2020)

Umwelt said:


> Don't.


Why not? He will have his music files (other than steaming) and with $400 of adds he will have Sony End Game. He has a 1Z and 1A.

Only thing left is a Kimber cable.
https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Carbon-USB-B-Plug-0-75m/dp/B0041EH0WW



https://www.amazon.com/Walkman-Cradle-BCR-NWH10-NW-ZX2-Japan/dp/B00S94R5RK















https://www.amazon.com/Sony-MUC-B20SB1-SONY-Headphone-cable/dp/B01LRR04F0


----------



## Damz87

Umwelt said:


> Don't.



He's this far down the rabbit hole. May as well go the whole way


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 21, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


> Why not? He will have his music files (other than steaming) and with $400 of adds he will have Sony End Game. He has a 1Z and 1A.
> 
> Only thing left is a Kimber cable.
> https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Carbon-USB-B-Plug-0-75m/dp/B0041EH0WW
> ...


Even more end game than the DMP-Z1? That one seems to say it’s an ALL in one solution. Just asking out of curiousity. The charging cradle might be a good idea considering my current listening habits but the cable, still not sure. But yup, already deep in the rabbit hole


----------



## Redcarmoose

Damz87 said:


> He's this far down the rabbit hole. May as well go the whole way


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 21, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> Even more end game than the DMP-Z1? That one seems to say it’s an ALL in one solution. Just asking out of curiousity. The charging cradle might be a good idea considering my current listening habits but the cable, still not sure. But yup, already deep in the rabbit hole



Next month DMP-Z1.


----------



## Damz87

Gamerlingual said:


> Even more end game than the DMP-Z1? That one seems to say it’s an ALL in one solution.



SQ wise, it comes close, but not quite there. Depends on what you're looking for though. The TA has some good features that the DMP doesn't have.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Damz87 said:


> SQ wise, it comes close, but not quite there. Depends on what you're looking for though. The TA has some good features that the DMP doesn't have.


Good. I stay with the TA. I thought the DMP has the same features as the TA and WM1Z minus all the connection types.


----------



## Gamerlingual

I’ll probably be a dope for saying this but, $500 for two cables?? Kimber for the Z7M2 and the USB Carbon?? Woh!! That is a lot! The cradle can be had used for less than $100. That looks better to me


----------



## Damz87

Gamerlingual said:


> Good. I stay with the TA. I thought the DMP has the same features as the TA and WM1Z minus all the connection types.



Yeah, it doesn't have the big range of outputs and inputs of the TA. But the DMP uses two AK4497EQ DAC's, has internal kimber kable wiring on both balanced and SE ports, runs on batteries so has a lower noise floor, has slightly more power etc.

There's a few differences, but, my advice would be not to worry about the DMP for now, considering you just got the TA  enjoy your new toy


----------



## Gamerlingual

Damz87 said:


> Yeah, it doesn't have the big range of outputs and inputs of the TA. But the DMP uses two AK4497EQ DAC's, has internal kimber kable wiring on both balanced and SE ports, runs on batteries so has a lower noise floor, has slightly more power etc.
> 
> There's a few differences, but, my advice would be not to worry about the DMP for now, considering you just got the TA  enjoy your new toy


Will do. Considering the Z7M2 has 3 outputs and my 1AM2 with my IER-Z1R and all my sources, there’s lots to play with


----------



## Redcarmoose

The DMP-Z1 has greater DSD over-sampling, I hear?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Damz87 said:


> Yeah, it doesn't have the big range of outputs and inputs of the TA. But the DMP uses two AK4497EQ DAC's, has internal kimber kable wiring on both balanced and SE ports, runs on batteries so has a lower noise floor, has slightly more power etc.
> 
> There's a few differences, but, my advice would be not to worry about the DMP for now, considering you just got the TA  enjoy your new toy



Is the distance from the TA to DMP-Z1 like the difference from the 1Z to the TA with DSD on?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Is the distance from the TA to DMP-Z1 like the difference from the 1Z to the TA with DSD on?


And I’ll be finding that out later tonight At Akihabara


----------



## Damz87

Redcarmoose said:


> Is the distance from the TA to DMP-Z1 like the difference from the 1Z to the TA with DSD on?



It’s hard to quantify how much better the DMP is. They are very different, yet similar at the same time, lol...

The DMP has a slightly different tonal balance and sounds a little more alive in the higher frequencies compared to the TA that has a smoother, mellow sound in that region. On top of that, the black background of the DMP makes each instrument/sound “pop” a little more so it gives the impression of a bigger stage and better clarity


----------



## adrianm

Damz87 said:


> Chord products are pretty ugly across their whole range imho lol. Especially compared to Sony who are one of the best (arguably the best) at product design


That's true but Sony make consumer audio and are just now getting back into high end.And i don't see any equivalent offering from them. I'd rather the money go into innovation and build quality vs just looks,though i do love the way the TA looks.Considering the consensus for next "step up" is a 30k Dcs Rossini i really don't care about the naming or looks that much.


----------



## adrianm

Redcarmoose said:


> Why not? He will have his music files (other than steaming) and with $400 of adds he will have Sony End Game. He has a 1Z and 1A.
> 
> Only thing left is a Kimber cable.
> https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Carbon-USB-B-Plug-0-75m/dp/B0041EH0WW
> ...


I can tell you for sure the cable is a minor tweak,welcome if you have a problem with some of the highs,but overall i'd consider it least bang-for buck.
The cradle i don't know,don't use it.
The usb cable also have't tested the AQ carbon everyone is raving about,but you could try a "cheaper" but still overpriced audiophile one like i did.Chord C-line (3 meters for me).It did sound like a slight improvement over the stock one at the time but i attribute that to the supplied one being absolute crap and got it mostly for the length.I'm highly doubtful the Aq carbon would make a difference but i might get one and test someday if i find a place where i can return it.

*broken record time*
If you live in an apartment building you might want to try mains filtering since for me that made more of a difference than the cable and usb combined.And cost as much as them combined though.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 21, 2020)

adrianm said:


> I can tell you for sure the cable is a minor tweak,welcome if you have a problem with some of the highs,but overall i'd consider it least bang-for buck.
> The cradle i don't know,don't use it.
> The usb cable also have't tested the AQ carbon everyone is raving about,but you could try a "cheaper" but still overpriced audiophile one like i did.Chord C-line (3 meters for me).It did sound like a slight improvement over the stock one at the time but i attribute that to the supplied one being absolute crap and got it mostly for the length.I'm highly doubtful the Aq carbon would make a difference but i might get one and test someday if i find a place where i can return it.
> 
> ...



The AQCarbon and Cradle combo has simply been a suggestion and historically used by a small group. I seemed to gather an idea of better timing and clarity? Though obviously it’s a number of hoops to jump through if a person only has the TA. I totally agree if one or two jump off the 90 foot bridge it’s not always wise for the whole group to simply.....jump.


I found the Walkman/AQCarbon/Cradle combination better than RCA Coaxial into the TA from a CD a transport. On a quick test bypassing the whole kit-and-caboodle.......optical from a Samsung big screen was fine to the TA. Though in that situation you have the inherent bit-rate ceilings associated with optical. As a side note you have to turn on a TV too.

But there is absolutely a thick element of placebo and placebo is powerful. These changes are small, they also have dramatic interplay with both the headphones a person is using and their hearing. Throw in a persons preferred tone and it makes for convolution... at best.

My test this week was amazing finding that with the TA, the MDR-Z7, Kimber and regular optical, that I could get just as good of results in a short test.

Still there is a fairly large Kimber group here. Not saying that proves anything other than different Kimber cables have found to make a good section of people happy in this thread. Personality I feel the Kimber was mandatory for getting the finishing improvements. The Kimber improvement wasn’t just a high smooth-out like you said, in my experience. For me with both the MDR-Z1R and MDR-Z7; the basic entry Kimber seemed to actively affect bass response and lower midrange detail. It had a dramatic effect on soundstage and overall treble imaging. So after everything was purchased I actually look at the Kimber as a bargain? Other people’s results may vary. I actuality am really suspect of the MDR-Z1R and MDR-Z7 included cables. Though strangely the included Sony IER-Z1R cable beats the Kimber they make for the Sony IER-Z1R. The just mentioned here is widely accepted by a fairly large group here. Group understanding goes a long way at times. Remember there was a time in Europe when they thought tomatoes were poisonous.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Wowsers. A bit off topic but, listening to this now:


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Wowsers. A bit off topic but, listening to this now:



Get one!


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Wowsers. A bit off topic but, listening to this now:


I actually woke up thinking about these this morning, really curious as to how they sound.


----------



## adrianm

Redcarmoose said:


> lower midrange detail


I found this to be the most obvious difference,and it was very welcome as i was pretty dissapointed with the midrange of the TA vs the Mojo.


Redcarmoose said:


> overall treble imaging


This and the bass response were the most dramatic improvements from the mains filtering,which makes me thing it's an emi/rf issue that maybe the cable geometry somehow filter it as well? No idea .Seems like that's what's happening with expensive power cables too.If it is a common fix for the same issues it makes sense i wouldn't hear any further improvement.The imaging became more focused as well.
Which brings me back to the main reason i want to get rid of the TA.Because i have such bad power it sounds considerably better at night than it does during the day.That "black background ,highlighted instruments etc" thing is there during the night (probably not the same extent as the DMP-Z1).But during the day it's a  bit more blurry.(Obsessing over details here,i'm sure the magnitude isn't quite as dramatic as i make it out to be,but it bugs me nonetheless).And it makes no sense to spend 2k+ on mains filtering for a 2k dac.I hope the Dave really is more or less "immune " to power,source,etc as Chord and most people claim it to be so i can be done with this madness and
 * *Hans Beekhuyzen voice** *Enjoy the Music!*


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 21, 2020)

adrianm said:


> I found this to be the most obvious difference,and it was very welcome as i was pretty dissapointed with the midrange of the TA vs the Mojo.
> 
> This and the bass response were the most dramatic improvements from the mains filtering,which makes me thing it's an emi/rf issue that maybe the cable geometry somehow filter it as well? No idea .Seems like that's what's happening with expensive power cables too.If it is a common fix for the same issues it makes sense i wouldn't hear any further improvement.The imaging became more focused as well.
> Which brings me back to the main reason i want to get rid of the TA.Because i have such bad power it sounds considerably better at night than it does during the day.That "black background ,highlighted instruments etc" thing is there during the night (probably not the same extent as the DMP-Z1).But during the day it's a  bit more blurry.(Obsessing over details here,i'm sure the magnitude isn't quite as dramatic as i make it out to be,but it bugs me nonetheless).And it makes no sense to spend 2k+ on mains filtering for a 2k dac.I hope the Dave really is more or less "immune " to power,source,etc as Chord and most people claim it to be so i can be done with this madness and
> * *Hans Beekhuyzen voice** *Enjoy the Music!*



I’m in the same confused place I was 11 years ago. Then changing power cables and interconnects made a world of difference. Now bypassing the AQCarbon/1A/1Z/Cradle for optical from a TV was a wash. Still I actually don’t believe my own sighted tests till I can repeat them a bunch. Even then I’m skeptical? I though I used to hear the power grid clean up from 2AM to 5AM. But yes, it may be the case where clean power is a big upgrade for the TA? It could be true. Watch the Audiophiles of Athens video.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvkes


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> I’m in the same confused place I was 11 years ago. Then changing power cables and interconnects made a world of difference. Now bypassing the AQCarbon/1A/1Z/Cradle for optical from a TV was a wash. Still I actually don’t believe my own sighted tests till I can repeat them a bunch. Even then I’m skeptical? I though I used to hear the power grid clean up from 2AM to 5AM. But yes, it may be the case where clean power is a big upgrade for the TA? It could be true. Watch the Audiophiles of Greece video.


Gonna try their TA here as well and see how it compares vs the DMP-Z1


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Gonna try their TA here as well and see how it compares vs the DMP-Z1


From personal experience, you might be opening pandora's box


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Gonna try their TA here as well and see how it compares vs the DMP-Z1



Ok.....wait? Let me just do a verification here. Your TA arrived at your house a couple of hours ago? And now your inside a store listening to the DMP-Z1? Really?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Ok.....wait? Let me just do a verification here. Your TA arrived at your house a couple of hours ago? And now your inside a store listening to the DMP-Z1? Really?


Yup. My wife wanted to go with me to Akihabara to eat dinner and then shop around. So we split up for the moment. I know, it’s ironic


----------



## adrianm

Redcarmoose said:


> I’m in the same confused place I was 11 years ago. Then changing power cables and interconnects made a world of difference. Now bypassing the AQCarbon/1A/1Z/Cradle for optical from a TV was a wash. Still I actually don’t believe my own sighted tests till I can repeat them a bunch. Even then I’m skeptical? I though I used to hear the power grid clean up from 2AM to 5AM. But yes, it may be the case where clean power is a big upgrade for the TA? It could be true. Watch the Audiophiles of Athens video.
> https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvkes


wow...is this how we sound like to other people?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Yup. My wife wanted to go with me to Akihabara to eat dinner and then shop around. So we split up for the moment. I know, it’s ironic



Directly across from The Big Apple is an old sushi restaurant which offers the Japanese version of Caprese Salad. Wish I could be more descriptive of the place? It’s right at the yellow dot, across the street looking at the Big Apple entrance.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Directly across from The Big Apple is an old sushi restaurant which offers the Japanese version of Caprese Salad. Wish I could be more descriptive of the place? It’s right at the yellow dot, across the street looking at the Big Apple entrance.


That’s about a 3 minute walk to the station. You walk ALL away around that block to teach there. If you ever come to the area, let me know and I’ll guide ya


----------



## adrianm

So how’s the dmp-z1?


----------



## Redcarmoose

adrianm said:


> wow...is this how we sound like to other people?


----------



## adrianm

Redcarmoose said:


>


Well we can convince ourselves of just about anything.


----------



## Damz87

@Gamerlingual try it in battery mode, dsd remastering on. I like the “sharp roll-off” setting on the dac filtering too.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Damz87 said:


> @Gamerlingual try it in battery mode, dsd remastering on. I like the “sharp roll-off” setting on the dac filtering too.


Will do


----------



## Gamerlingual

I came prepared today


----------



## Gamerlingual

If I got the DMP-Z1, this would be the exact combo to get:



The TA sample didn’t have a Kimber cable I could try. But I think the end game for me would be this combo plus the Kimber cable:


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> I’ll probably be a dope for saying this but, $500 for two cables?? Kimber for the Z7M2 and the USB Carbon?? Woh!! That is a lot! The cradle can be had used for less than $100. That looks better to me


If it helps, you wouldn't be a dope in my book.


adrianm said:


> I'd rather the money go into innovation and build quality vs just looks,though i do love the way the TA looks.


What is the innovation and build quality advantage of the D.A. Veritas Extremis?


adrianm said:


> Which brings me back to the main reason i want to get rid of the TA.Because i have such bad power it sounds considerably better at night than it does during the day.That "black background ,highlighted instruments etc" thing is there during the night (probably not the same extent as the DMP-Z1).But during the day it's a  bit more blurry.(Obsessing over details here,i'm sure the magnitude isn't quite as dramatic as i make it out to be,but it bugs me nonetheless).


I thought we had agreed it's psychosomatic, not gear related. I guess it didn't last.  


adrianm said:


> wow...is this how we sound like to other people?


Lol, this is how "you" sound even to some people here. Hahaha.


Gamerlingual said:


> If I got the DMP-Z1, this would be the exact combo to get:
> 
> The TA sample didn’t have a Kimber cable I could try. But I think the end game for me would be this combo plus the Kimber cable:


Ok, so my ancillary conclusions are:
* the DMP did not beat the TA for you
* you tried the Kimber and heard the improvement


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 21, 2020)

So my biggest take away the entire experience Is that the Sony DMP-Z1 is an all-in-one set. It can pretty much be your little walkman, headphones amp,  and even as a mini PC because you can store files easily in the Micro SD card. As far as the sound differences are concerned between the Z1 and TA, the only Pandora’s Box that was revealed was that the Kimber cable made the Z7M2 stand out so much more yet smoothing out all the sounds across the spectrum. The DSD for both the TA and Z1, I would give the edge to the TA, just barely while using the Z2 in both battery and plug in modes. My IER-Z1R did well in also deciphering the little details and it was really close to the Kimber setup. Using the DMP-Z1 with the IER certainly gave it a more 3D feel with my eyes closed and increased the soundstage. But the Z7M2 with the Kimber along with the TA was the champ of choice.

Basically, the DMP-Z1 is vastly overpriced because it packs everything into a smaller package which can be used on sa a long distance train trip. I would consider it ideal with a tray and the carry case that comes with it is very sturdy and easy to carry. So I think it’s better to buy the components separately unless you ABSOLUTELY need the all in one approach to the Z1. The TA offers much more flexibility and options with slightly better sound.

DMP-Z1 = TA-ZH1ES + NW-WM1Z combined. If you got those 2 or the WM1A, don’t get the Z1. The gold volume knob and the casing is where the money went to despite the technological treasures inside. Marketing can be a dangerous tool.

So I’ll try to get the Kimber cable used someday.


----------



## Damz87

Gamerlingual said:


> So my biggest take away the entire experience Is that the Sony DMP-Z1 is an all-in-one set. It can pretty much be your little walk in, headphones in, and even a mini PC because you can store files easily in the Micro SD card. As far as the sound differences are concerned between the Z1 and TA, the only Pandora’s Box that was revealed was that the Kimber cable made the Z7M2 stand out so much more yet smoothing out all the sounds across the spectrum. The DSD for both the TA and Z1, I would give the edge to the TA, just barely while using the Z2 in both battery and plug in modes. My IER-Z1R did well in also deciphering the little details and it was really close to the Kimber setup. Using the DMP-Z1 with the IER certainly gave it a more 3D feel with my eyes closed and increased the soundstage. But the Z7M2 with the Kimber along with the TA was the champ of choice.
> 
> Basically, the DMP-Z1 is vastly overpriced because it packs everything into a smaller package which can be used on saw a long distance train trip. I would consider it ideal with a tray and the carry case that comes with it is very sturdy and easy to carry. So I think it’s better to buy the components separately unless you ABSOLUTELY need the all in one approach to the Z1. The TA offers much more flexibility and options with slightly better sound.
> DMP-Z1 = TA-ZH1ES + NW-WM1Z combined. If you got those 2 or the WM1A, don’t get the Z1. The good volume knob and the casing is where the money went to despite the technological treasures inside. Marketing can be a dangerous tool.
> ...



100% agree. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the DMP is not worth the extra money above the TA on SQ alone. It’s good if you really want the portability. The sound improvement gap isn’t worth the huge price increase.


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 21, 2020)

Damz87 said:


> 100% agree. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the DMP is not worth the extra money above the TA on SQ alone. It’s good if you really want the portability. The sound improvement gap isn’t worth the huge price increase.


I consider the TA about 5% better or more for much cheaper. The Kimber cable jacked up the sound quality at least 30% since I also used it on my WM1Z. That thing is potent!


----------



## Damz87

Gamerlingual said:


> I consider the TA about 5% better or more for much cheaper. The Kimber cable jacked up the sound quality at least 30% since I also used it on my WM1Z. That thing is potent!



It’s good for your wallet that you hear a 30% improvement from the cable rather than the dmp


----------



## Gamerlingual

Damz87 said:


> It’s good for your wallet that you hear a 30% improvement from the cable rather than the dmp


I took a 2 hour listen using the MDR-Z1R, IER-Z1R, and Z7M2 all with and without Kimber cables. Today was a HUGE day of audio learning and despite digesting so much info, I still need to process a bit more of what I learned. I hope I can find the Kimber cable for less than 10,000 yen


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> I took a 2 hour listen using the MDR-Z1R, IER-Z1R, and Z7M2 all with and without Kimber cables. Today was a HUGE day of audio learning and despite digesting so much info, I still need to process a bit more of what I learned. I hope I can find the Kimber cable for less than 10,000 yen



Also give the Axios cable a try if you can and see what you think


----------



## gerelmx1986

Gamerlingual said:


> So my biggest take away the entire experience Is that the Sony DMP-Z1 is an all-in-one set. It can pretty much be your little walkman, headphones amp,  and even as a mini PC because you can store files easily in the Micro SD card. As far as the sound differences are concerned between the Z1 and TA, the only Pandora’s Box that was revealed was that the Kimber cable made the Z7M2 stand out so much more yet smoothing out all the sounds across the spectrum. The DSD for both the TA and Z1, I would give the edge to the TA, just barely while using the Z2 in both battery and plug in modes. My IER-Z1R did well in also deciphering the little details and it was really close to the Kimber setup. Using the DMP-Z1 with the IER certainly gave it a more 3D feel with my eyes closed and increased the soundstage. But the Z7M2 with the Kimber along with the TA was the champ of choice.
> 
> Basically, the DMP-Z1 is vastly overpriced because it packs everything into a smaller package which can be used on sa a long distance train trip. I would consider it ideal with a tray and the carry case that comes with it is very sturdy and easy to carry. So I think it’s better to buy the components separately unless you ABSOLUTELY need the all in one approach to the Z1. The TA offers much more flexibility and options with slightly better sound.
> 
> ...


How would you describe the SQ improvements of using the DSD rastering engine ? How is this DSD compared on the Tazzy vs the DMP-Z1?


----------



## Umwelt

Gamerlingual said:


> I’ll probably be a dope for saying this but, $500 for two cables?? Kimber for the Z7M2 and the USB Carbon?? Woh!! That is a lot! The cradle can be had used for less than $100. That looks better to me



Get the docked if useful. **** overpriced USB cables though. We've been over this.


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 21, 2020)

gerelmx1986 said:


> How would you describe the SQ improvements of using the DSD rastering engine ? How is this DSD compared on the Tazzy vs the DMP-Z1?


You notice the difference when using DSD on either. The difference vs non DSD is huge. When using them both, sure others might find the DMP better? How much? Not sure. But I tested it with both stock cables and Kimber and the Kimber made a huge leap on both the TA and Z1. The TA just edge it out by a smidgen when comparing the DSD of the two alone.

With the Z7M2, the treble was brought to a more even level with the mid and bass when using DSD while giving off a concert experience. The MDR-Z1R had less treble and a smoother sound signature, but the bass was humming without being too heavy and the separation was more apparent in the instruments. I felt like I was in a movie theater. The IER-Z1R with DSD is like a mini MDR-Z1R in terms of soundstage and 3D effects. The DSD really made those IEMs feel like very wide closed back headphones. WAY more 3D space, so it’s a treat for the ears.


----------



## Umwelt

Gamerlingual said:


> You notice the difference when using DSD on either. The difference vs non DSD is huge.



It does make a noticeable difference, but not necessarily for the better. After a week of having it on for everything on my TA, a few things in some familiar songs started sounding slightly off to me, until I turned the DSD remastering off, and then things sounded 100% right again. I'm now thinking that whatever Sony did with this thing, it has the effect of giving the listener an initially stronger and more impactful impression, but it is rather superficial and after long enough and paying attention, you start noticing that too many things are being messed with.

I recall another user said something similar about falling out of love with the DSD remastering.

Also, I actually did more research into the DSD format itself vs. PCM and came out thoroughly unimpressed. Now I don't see the need to either try to obtain "original" DSD sources, and much less to "remaster" PCM into DSD.

DSEE HX, on the other hand, does make an overall positive difference on CD and lossy files without undue distortion. I'm keeping that one on for now.


----------



## gerelmx1986

Gamerlingual said:


> You notice the difference when using DSD on either. The difference vs non DSD is huge. When using them both, sure others might find the DMP better? How much? Not sure. But I tested it with both stock cables and Kimber and the Kimber made a huge leap on both the TA and Z1. The TA just edge it out by a smidgen when comparing the DSD of the two alone.
> 
> With the Z7M2, the treble was brought to a more even level with the mid and bass when using DSD while giving off a concert experience. The MDR-Z1R had less treble and a smoother sound signature, but the bass was humming without being too heavy and the separation was more apparent in the instruments. I felt like I was in a movie theater. The IER-Z1R with DSD is like a mini MDR-Z1R in terms of soundstage and 3D effects. The DSD really made those IEMs feel like very wide closed back headphones. WAY more 3D space, so it’s a treat for the ears.


I got the Sony kimber for the MDR-Z1R  on amazon for €219


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> I hope I can find the Kimber cable for less than 10,000 yen


I got mine for 28.000 yen off amazon japan,also payed like 120 euros or more for shipping and import taxes etc.(more than the initial calculation off buyee)


----------



## Gamerlingual

Umwelt said:


> It does make a noticeable difference, but not necessarily for the better. After a week of having it on for everything on my TA, a few things in some familiar songs started sounding slightly off to me, until I turned the DSD remastering off, and then things sounded 100% right again. I'm now thinking that whatever Sony did with this thing, it has the effect of giving the listener an initially stronger and more impactful impression, but it is rather superficial and after long enough and paying attention, you start noticing that too many things are being messed with.
> 
> I recall another user said something similar about falling out of love with the DSD remastering.
> 
> ...


Everyone will do what makes their ears happy. I love DSD and it works for some and not for others. Whether cables work or not, I won’t judge until I tried. I used the Kimber cables for over 3 hours and was able to gauge an opinion.


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> I got mine for 28.000 yen off amazon japan,also payed like 120 euros or more for shipping and import taxes etc.(more than the initial calculation off buyee)


I’m a cheaparse. If I can’t find it for my targeted price, I can wait.


----------



## adrianm

gerelmx1986 said:


> I got the Sony kimber for the MDR-Z1R on amazon for €219


when was this?


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> I got mine for 28.000 yen off amazon japan,also payed like 120 euros or more for shipping and import taxes etc.(more than the initial calculation off buyee)



When buying from Amazon JP, when their Global shipping is not available, I'd recommend using Tenso (the mail forwarding brother site of Buyee) instead. It ends up being cheaper and you get to enter the item name and value for the customs form, which can help in reducing import taxes. 

For the kimber cable in particular, a better choice would be to look out for a deal on yahoo auctions, I've seen them for around 18,000 yen. 



Gamerlingual said:


> Everyone will do what makes their ears happy. I love DSD and it works for some and not for others. Whether cables work or not, I won’t judge until I tried. I used the Kimber cables for over 3 hours and was able to gauge an opinion.



Of course, that should be taken more as a warning. Just don't get married to the DSD after the initial infatuation stage. 
And the kimber cables should help as they are passing the analog signal the TA lovingly prepared for you. For analog, cables matter. For digital, they don't.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Umwelt said:


> When buying from Amazon JP, when their Global shipping is not available, I'd recommend using Tenso (the mail forwarding brother site of Buyee) instead. It ends up being cheaper and you get to enter the item name and value for the customs form, which can help in reducing import taxes.
> 
> For the kimber cable in particular, a better choice would be to look out for a deal on yahoo auctions, I've seen them for around 18,000 yen.
> 
> ...


I’m in Japan, but I think you knew that already. That’s good advice for people when shopping for the cable. Is the model number *MUC-B20SB1?*


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> I’m in Japan, but I think you knew that already. That’s good advice for people when shopping for the cable. Is the model number *MUC-B20SB1?*



Looks right.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> What is the innovation and build quality advantage of the D.A. Veritas Extremis?


A bunch of stuff explained by Rob Watts on the thread and in interviews,including his proprietary software,besides hardware improvements.Instead of...120 euro off the shelf dac chips as used by the Dmp-z1 for example.There's 2 of them i know,how much more can you ask for 8k.


candlejack said:


> I thought we had agreed it's psychosomatic, not gear related. I guess it didn't last.


It lasted untill i heard the TA during the DA at the showroom with power regenerators and etc.It sounded like it sounds at home after 11-12.Even if it is psychosomatic, and i do decide the Dave is too much of an expense,i might just prefer getting something battery powered like Hugo 2 and call it a day.At least i can get back my sanity and  use it when i go back to the office as well.


candlejack said:


> Lol, this is how "you" sound even to some people here. Hahaha.


I assume said people are you, since the party line here is "Upgraded power cables,usb and kimber are a must ".I can't imagine people recommending power cables have a problems with mains filters..Even if they do, i've wasted enough time testing all this crap myself that i don't really care what the consensus is.
Both the cable and the filter make a difference individually,but the filter is a lot more noticeable i get the bonus of power surge protection.And since my power cuts off for split seconds,sometimes not even long enough for electronics to shut down...i'd call that the best investment.
  If none of this stuff makes enough of a difference to you,or not enough to justify the expense...lucky you


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> It does make a noticeable difference, but not necessarily for the better. After a week of having it on for everything on my TA, a few things in some familiar songs started sounding slightly off to me, until I turned the DSD remastering off, and then things sounded 100% right again. I'm now thinking that whatever Sony did with this thing, it has the effect of giving the listener an initially stronger and more impactful impression, but it is rather superficial and after long enough and paying attention, you start noticing that too many things are being messed with.
> 
> I recall another user said something similar about falling out of love with the DSD remastering.
> 
> ...


Agreed,but i also felt that way about DSEE HX especially with tidal cd quality and high res stuff.


----------



## candlejack

Umwelt said:


> For analog, cables matter. For digital, they don't.


That is incorrect. They matter for both digital and audio. The question is how much? 

For digital, as an example of binary data transmission, you could have 2 nominal bands used to encode 0 and 1 and a middle deadband: [+4,+6] V is 1, [-6,-4] V is 0 and anything outside of these ranges is an error. In this case, assuming a perfect signal on the Tx side the cable needs to be able to keep the absolute error it introduces on the Rx side to below 1 V, because this is the tolerance of the system. Most cables will always satisfy their design requirements. As anecdotal proof, I monitored a USB data transmission of 4 GB of data and not a single packet was flagged as erroneous. 

For analog, the situation is the same, except that the tolerance is not set by a technical specification and decoded by a computer, but instead by your auditory system. It is known that all human sensors have a certain maximum resolution or ability to distinguish between two similar but not equal samples. That is the same as the 1 V tolerance from the digital example. If the error introduced by the cable in the analog signal falls below the threshold of human hearing, then the cable is a perfectly transparent one, just as transparent as a digital cable that reads: +4.5, +5.5, +5.7, -5.1, -4.7....

So my point is that neither a digital computer, nor a human listener requires that the transmission error be zero because of the inherent "truncation" of the incoming data by the user, thus reducing its effective precision.


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> So my biggest take away the entire experience Is that the Sony DMP-Z1 is an all-in-one set. It can pretty much be your little walkman, headphones amp,  and even as a mini PC because you can store files easily in the Micro SD card. As far as the sound differences are concerned between the Z1 and TA, the only Pandora’s Box that was revealed was that the Kimber cable made the Z7M2 stand out so much more yet smoothing out all the sounds across the spectrum. The DSD for both the TA and Z1, I would give the edge to the TA, just barely while using the Z2 in both battery and plug in modes. My IER-Z1R did well in also deciphering the little details and it was really close to the Kimber setup. Using the DMP-Z1 with the IER certainly gave it a more 3D feel with my eyes closed and increased the soundstage. But the Z7M2 with the Kimber along with the TA was the champ of choice.
> 
> Basically, the DMP-Z1 is vastly overpriced because it packs everything into a smaller package which can be used on sa a long distance train trip. I would consider it ideal with a tray and the carry case that comes with it is very sturdy and easy to carry. So I think it’s better to buy the components separately unless you ABSOLUTELY need the all in one approach to the Z1. The TA offers much more flexibility and options with slightly better sound.
> 
> ...


This is basically what i expected.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> That is incorrect. They matter for both digital and audio. The question is how much?
> 
> For digital, as an example of binary data transmission, you could have 2 nominal bands used to encode 0 and 1 and a middle deadband: [+4,+6] V is 1, [-6,-4] V is 0 and anything outside of these ranges is an error. In this case, assuming a perfect signal on the Tx side the cable needs to be able to keep the absolute error it introduces on the Rx side to below 1 V, because this is the tolerance of the system. Most cables will always satisfy their design requirements. As anecdotal proof, I monitored a USB data transmission of 4 GB of data and not a single packet was flagged as erroneous.
> 
> ...


Well, I tested the Kimber Kable on the DMP-1Z and WM1Z using FLAC files. So it is perhaps safe to say that listening to mostly FLAC files, the cable made a HUGE difference for digital files. I'm sure the Kimber helps analog as well. But my experience tells me as far as digital output, it helps a lot.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Part 2 here. Since it’s late here, I’ll just listen to the headphones and open up the TA tomorrow.


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> Agreed,but i also felt that way about DSEE HX especially with tidal cd quality and high res stuff.



Ya, most likely should be always off for stuff like that. I think the only advantage is for lossy audio, and even that is to-be-determined for me. As soon as I notice something weird it's on the chopping block. But I did find that the DSD conversion was introducing the most distortion out of the 3 DSP settings on the TA.



candlejack said:


> That is incorrect. They matter for both digital and audio. The question is how much?



It's correct for practical purposes, which is what I read also in the rest of your post.
I suppose it would be more accurate to say that for digital,_ expensive/upgrade_ cables don't matter. Why? We're fortunate enough that the Chinese production environment for such cables, especially for USB cables, is uniform. The $2 cable packed in with your gear and the $800 (or more) cable from a boutique shop are literally the same Chineseum. There will be differences in durability and reliability over time, but not in the sound that reaches your ear drums. That's the key takeaway.

Now for analog, go nuts getting new cables! Well, it's probably good to keep it within reason still.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> It is known that all human sensors have a certain maximum resolution or ability to distinguish between two similar but not equal samples


What is not perfected is the process by which those limits are met.If the bar is as low as you consider it to be, why does higher end audio gear sound more "real"? I think it's more likely that the bar is higher than you consider it to be than it is that people have been suffering a collective delusion spanning decades. Audiophools aside.And there are a lot of them.


----------



## gerelmx1986

adrianm said:


> when was this?


Beginning this year, before COVID-19 broke out of control


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 21, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> Also give the Axios cable a try if you can and see what you think








Haha. You’ve just showed him another stone to be overturned. Good!


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> A bunch of stuff explained by Rob Watts on the thread and in interviews,including his proprietary software,besides hardware improvements.Instead of...120 euro off the shelf dac chips as used by the Dmp-z1 for example.There's 2 of them i know,how much more can you ask for 8k.
> 
> It lasted untill i heard the TA during the DA at the showroom with power regenerators and etc.It sounded like it sounds at home after 11-12.Even if it is psychosomatic, and i do decide the Dave is too much of an expense,i might just prefer getting something battery powered like Hugo 2 and call it a day.At least i can get back my sanity and  use it when i go back to the office as well.
> 
> ...


1. Not saying either of the Sony's is better than the DA Veritas Extremis, just making a general comment. What's wrong with off-the-shelf stuff? I understand it's hard to justify insane prices when you're mostly an integrator, but in terms of quality, it doesn't have to mean lower quality. I would argue that a well established DAC chip manufacturer is a lot more likely to push the envelope than a guy like Rob Watts (is he really taking sole credit for the Chord DAC designs, doesn't he have a team behind him to write said proprietary software and do FPGA programming?). After all, an in-house-movement is not better than COSC because it's "in house", it's better because it's "Rolex in house" or "JLC in house". Is Chord more advanced in DAC tech than AK?

2. The extra excitement in that showroom environment could easily account for the difference, I reckon.

3. I agree: trust what you know! I would also add: keep enough doubt to reconsider what you know, when appropriate. 

4. I suppose I am lucky. I'm trying to share my good fortune, but I'm not very effective.


----------



## Umwelt

Speaking of keeping things within reason for analog cables, check this out: https://www.ebay.com/itm/153978099252

When the cost of your headphone cable is 100% the cost of your high end headphones, you have to know you're doing something wrong.


----------



## Damz87

Umwelt said:


> Speaking of keeping things within reason for analog cables, check this out: https://www.ebay.com/itm/153978099252
> 
> When the cost of your headphone cable is 100% the cost of your high end headphones, you have to know you're doing something wrong.



That cable is listed here on headfi too. Lots of IEM users say good things about the 1960s cables


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> What is not perfected is the process by which those limits are met.If the bar is as low as you consider it to be, why does higher end audio gear sound more "real"? I think it's more likely that the bar is higher than you consider it to be than it is that people have been suffering a collective delusion spanning decades. Audiophools aside.And there are a lot of them.


I make no assumptions about how low or high the bar is, I simply don't have sufficient knowledge in the subject. Actually, the one assumption I do make is that imperfections in the cable are at least 20 dB closer to this bar than imperfections in the movement of the diaphragm.

Interesting proposition. Do you also believe in god because it's unlikely that a great part of the human population has been suffering a collective delusion spanning millennia? I think I preferred your other argument:


adrianm said:


> [...] I've wasted enough time testing all this crap myself that i don't really care what the consensus is.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Umwelt said:


> Speaking of keeping things within reason for analog cables, check this out: https://www.ebay.com/itm/153978099252
> 
> When the cost of your headphone cable is 100% the cost of your high end headphones, you have to know you're doing something wrong.


$1500+ USD?? Wait what?? I can definitely say the DMP-Z1 isn’t worth its asking price but cannot deny it is a wonderful piece of technology. And a cable going for this price?? I know Kimber is a little expensive, but dang that is 1 to 2 months rent or more for some!!


----------



## candlejack

Umwelt said:


> Speaking of keeping things within reason for analog cables, check this out: https://www.ebay.com/itm/153978099252
> 
> When the cost of your headphone cable is 100% the cost of your high end headphones, you have to know you're doing something wrong.


Hahaha, your inexperience is showing hard. Check out the Axios Ag.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Haha. You’ve just showed him another stone to be overturned. Good!


Nyuk nyuk nyuk. For the $750 asking price for the IER-Z1R, I’m thinking the Kimber is the better way to go. But I gotta test before I judge. And isn’t that the fun part?


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> After all, an in-house-movement is not better than COSC because it's "in house", it's better because it's "Rolex in house" or "JLC in house". Is Chord more advanced in DAC tech than AK?


Rolex in house is definitely better than ..everything in house? Maybe except Omega performance wise.This is a field where pushing the envelope makes no sense because the approach was rendered obsolete by quartz and other tech.But in terms of durability,Rolex in house > most if not all.Smash an AP or Patek into a wall and it's pretty much done,Rolexe durability and ruggedness on the other hand is tried and tested.


candlejack said:


> 2. The extra excitement in that showroom environment could easily account for the difference, I reckon.


Excitement over hearing my own TA that i brought from home to compare with Dave? i've already owned it for a month at this point.And i've never auditioned the TA before buying it.First time i've heard was at home.dirty mains and all.


candlejack said:


> is he really taking sole credit for the Chord DAC designs, doesn't he have a team behind him to write said proprietary software and do FPGA programming?


Yes he's taking sole credit for the Dave at least,software and a lot of the hardware stuff.And he doesn't even work at Chord,he's a consultant.


candlejack said:


> . I agree: trust what you know! I would also add: keep enough doubt to reconsider what you know, when appropriate


I'm was basically Smeagol untill not too long ago.


----------



## Umwelt

candlejack said:


> Hahaha, your inexperience is showing hard. Check out the Axios Ag.



I'm avoiding that as I have a low tolerance for shameless stupidity.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Do you also believe in god because it's unlikely that a great part of the human population has been suffering a collective delusion spanning millennia?


I wasn't arguing for cables.I find they make less of a difference than many here argue.
That's a generalization and oversimplification.Here we are talking about a specific group of people with at least some knowledge on subject.Plus considering the prices for said high end equipment you would have to consider a sizeable chunk of the group is above a certain iq, not " the collective human population throughout history".


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> the DSD really made those IEMs feel like very wide closed back headphones. WAY more 3D space, so it’s a treat for the ears.


Just tested this and it holds true for the MDR as well, soundstage expands pretty noticeably.It may be a bit weird at times but i'd still call it the best feature of the TA.


----------



## Umwelt

Making anything sound like a closed headphone is not a good thing at all lol


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> Watch the Audiophiles of Athens video.
> https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvkes


This was posted before, but I didn't watch it then. I did watch it now. I wonder: what do you take from it, Red?


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> Making anything sound like a closed headphone is not a good thing at all lol


Unless you're not sitting alone in a quiet room.


----------



## Rob49

Is anyone using the Focal Utopia's with the TA & if so, what are your thoughts, please ?


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 22, 2020)

So on my PC and Walkman connect to the TA, and with DSD on, it only outputs to PCM 48kHz or 96kHz. Updated to version 1.03 and still does the same thing. Output is to the MDR-Z7M2. Is the unit a defect? The DSD light is on and the DSEE HX is off.

Never mind. Played with the menu more and got what I wanted! All set!!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> So on my PC and Walkman connect to the TA, and with DSD on, it only outputs to PCM 48kHz or 96kHz. Updated to version 1.03 and still does the same thing. Output is to the MDR-Z7M2. Is the unit a defect? The DSD light is on and the DSEE HX is off.
> 
> Never mind. Played with the menu more and got what I wanted! All set!!



Did you go into control panel and max out your bit-rate on the PC? That will limit what goes to the TA.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Did you go into control panel and max out your bit-rate on the PC? That will limit what goes to the TA.


No, I haven't done that. I will check now. Thank you


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> No, I haven't done that. I will check now. Thank you



Since you seem to be noticing nuances, you should try listening with the file on your PC, then side connected to the Walkman 1Z/1A.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Since you seem to be noticing nuances, you should try listening with the file on your PC, then side connected to the Walkman 1Z/1A.


Ok, so I don't know how to change the bit rate. Should I show where I am on the Control Menu? Pardon the trouble @_@


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 22, 2020)

Ok. Here I am

Edit: I'm playing music from the Sony Music Center


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Ok, so I don't know how to change the bit rate. Should I show where I am on the Control Menu? Pardon the trouble @_@


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ifier-live-from-ifa-2016.818848/post-15678821


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Ok. Here I am
> 
> Edit: I'm playing music from the Sony Music Center





Redcarmoose said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ifier-live-from-ifa-2016.818848/post-15678821



Go to the post I posted it explains go to Sound then Headphone properties.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Remember too, that this is only important with hi-res files. If all your songs are 16/44.1 and it is on that your fine. Interestingly increasing bit-rate or even maxing out the buffer never creates a lag or skip.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Go to the post I posted it explains go to Sound then Headphone properties.


Ok. Will do


----------



## Gamerlingual

Done! Thanks!!


----------



## adrianm

Do you guys use headphone stands? And if so,which?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Actually, I'm wondering how people organize their cables and headphones with the TA. Anyone got a shot of their organization setup so I can learn as well?


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> Actually, I'm wondering how people organize their cables and headphones with the TA. Anyone got a shot of their organization setup so I can learn as well?


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


>


Great idea on the shelf for under my desk! Did you make that headphone rack?


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 22, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> Great idea on the shelf for under my desk! Did you make that headphone rack?



The “rack” is a foldable hook from Ikea. Some say it puts too much strain on the cushion of the head band but I’ve seen no ill effect after 3 1/2 years. 

The shelf is also an Ikea unit turned 90 degrees


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 22, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> The “rack” is a foldable hook from Ikea. Some say it puts too much strain on the cushion of the head band but I’ve seen no ill effect after 3 1/2 years.
> 
> The shelf is also an Ikea unit turned 90 degrees


Would it be ok to provide the link to that hook? I think it'll make the storage for my sets and the TA much easier. Thanks for the feedback

Side note: If someone knows of a headphone organizer thread for collections, etc. Let me know. I looked into the brand Bahutte, but too expensive.


----------



## Umwelt

Gamerlingual said:


> Actually, I'm wondering how people organize their cables and headphones with the TA. Anyone got a shot of their organization setup so I can learn as well?



My solution is simply to orient it sideways, hide it behind my monitor, and have the headphone extension cables come out from the side lol


----------



## Gamerlingual

Umwelt said:


> My solution is simply to orient it sideways, hide it behind my monitor, and have the headphone extension cables come out from the side lol


That won't damage it? How do you clean the dust?


----------



## Umwelt

Gamerlingual said:


> That won't damage it? How do you clean the dust?



What exactly do you think would damage it? By sideways I meant with the cables coming oriented on an X axis instead of Y axis as it normally would, but the unit itself is still sitting flat and not on its side, if that's how it sounded before.

And I just wipe it regularly to keep it dust-free, it's behind a small monitor (another wonderful Sony product, their OLED broadcast monitor) so it's easy to reach.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Umwelt said:


> What exactly do you think would damage it? By sideways I meant with the cables coming oriented on an X axis instead of Y axis as it normally would, but the unit itself is still sitting flat and not on its side, if that's how it sounded before.
> 
> And I just wipe it regularly to keep it dust-free, it's behind a small monitor (another wonderful Sony product, their OLED broadcast monitor) so it's easy to reach.


I’m asking because I’m not sure if the gravity pull would impact the components. It is a big of a heavy amp


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 22, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> Would it be ok to provide the link to that hook? I think it'll make the storage for my sets and the TA much easier. Thanks for the feedback
> 
> Side note: If someone knows of a headphone organizer thread for collections, etc. Let me know. I looked into the brand Bahutte, but too expensive.



It is called Bjärnum 

https://www.ikea.com/dk/da/p/bjaernum-krog-kan-klappes-sammen-aluminium-60152590/

Don't know if it is available in Ikea Japan


----------



## Umwelt

Gamerlingual said:


> I’m asking because I’m not sure if the gravity pull would impact the components. It is a big of a heavy amp



It's not hanging upside down if that's what you're thinking lol. That's just how the pic was taken.

I wish Sony had made this rack and wall mountable though.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Actually, I'm wondering how people organize their cables and headphones with the TA. Anyone got a shot of their organization setup so I can learn as well?



I just drag it around the house?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> I just drag it around the house?


Z7? No MDR-Z1R? Hah cool


----------



## candlejack

Redcarmoose said:


> I just drag it around the house?


That's a sweet photo right there!


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> That's a sweet photo right there!


Makes for a perfect picture in a marketing brochure. Well done @Redcarmoose


----------



## adrianm

No passion for photography here ,but :


----------



## Gamerlingual

Putting my headphones and DAPs away as I’m done listening to music for today. But this is my very cluttered setup. Whew. Need to see what I can get at Amazon or IKEA so the TA can go under the table. But as a stand-alone piece, it fits with the desk no problem


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


>


What is the hook hanging on to? I’m not allowed to nail things to the walls in my
Apartment


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> What is the hook hanging on to? I’m not allowed to nail things to the walls in my
> Apartment



it's one bracket from some modular shelves that used to hang there, can,t be bothered to remove it as it might rip the wall paper and even if it doesn't the wall is a different colour behind. It's my own house so I can do what I please.


----------



## Damz87

adrianm said:


> No passion for photography here ,but :


Nice monitor, I’ve got the same one


----------



## adrianm

Damz87 said:


> Nice monitor, I’ve got the same one


Was thinking of getting a 160 hz lg ,but not if Dave has anything to say about it


----------



## cosplayerkyo

I also like to keep my taz at my computer desk.  PC to Taz via optical.  WM1A in dock via USB to Taz.


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Redcarmoose said:


> I just drag it around the house?



You sure know to nail these photos every time!


----------



## adrianm

cosplayerkyo said:


> I also like to keep my taz at my computer desk.  PC to Taz via optical.  WM1A in dock via USB to Taz.


Sayl,nice i went for the Steelcase Gesture


----------



## Umwelt

cosplayerkyo said:


> I also like to keep my taz at my computer desk.  PC to Taz via optical.  WM1A in dock via USB to Taz.



Nice and clean! I'd like to keep my Tazzie on my desk just to admire how pretty it is all the time, but I use it just as much for movies, TV, and gaming as I do for pure music listening (maybe more?), so it has to stay close to the rest of the entertainment media stuff.

Oh and those new SA-Z1 speakers would sure look nice on this desk too! 


Speaking of the SA-Z1 I'm really looking forward to hearing impressions on those near-field speakers. Hoping they provide the ability to get some loud sound near you without having to worry about bothering neighbors in an apartment building situation (that's one of the main reasons I'm a heavy headphone user).


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> Nice and clean! I'd like to keep my Tazzie on my desk just to admire how pretty it is all the time, but I use it just as much for movies, TV, and gaming as I do for pure music listening (maybe more?), so it has to stay close to the rest of the entertainment media stuff.
> 
> Oh and those new SA-Z1 speakers would sure look nice on this desk too!
> 
> ...


Those look like KEF Ls50's


----------



## cosplayerkyo

adrianm said:


> Sayl,nice i went for the Steelcase Gesture


Ah i was debating on that chair as well.  Its so comfortable!



Umwelt said:


> Nice and clean! I'd like to keep my Tazzie on my desk just to admire how pretty it is all the time, but I use it just as much for movies, TV, and gaming as I do for pure music listening (maybe more?), so it has to stay close to the rest of the entertainment media stuff.
> 
> Oh and those new SA-Z1 speakers would sure look nice on this desk too!
> 
> Speaking of the SA-Z1 I'm really looking forward to hearing impressions on those near-field speakers. Hoping they provide the ability to get some loud sound near you without having to worry about bothering neighbors in an apartment building situation (that's one of the main reasons I'm a heavy headphone user).


Thank you and totally agree!  Taz looks wonderful and it's great for movies and games.  Plus it's so convenient having it right at the desk.
Those SA-Z1 speakers have me very intrigued and I can't wait to hear them whenever they come out  I'm using these kef ls50ws nearfield and they sound wonderful with the taz.  I'd be curious to compare them to the SA-Z1 whenever they come out


----------



## adrianm

cosplayerkyo said:


> Ah i was debating on that chair as well. Its so comfortable!


Yeah,completely cured my back pains.My gf just got one as well.


----------



## Lookout57

I have my TA connected to my computer using USB to Walkman port and WM1A in dock to USB-B port. For speakers I have Audioengine 5+ speakers and Audioengine S8 subwoofer. Makes a great combo.


----------



## gsiu33

Rob49 said:


> Thank you for that. I will look on Amazon this evening. It's all very confusing with all these A, B, ( & C's ! ) So it's an adapter i need inorder to use the Fiio.


I am using AudioQuest micro USB to B adapter to connect AK240 to TA. It shall works for Fiio.

https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-D...59PC3V63YF3&psc=1&refRID=B3VD8WKMT59PC3V63YF3


----------



## Umwelt

Following DSD remastering, DSEE HX upscaling also got the axe for me. D.C. Linearizer is the only processing left standing, for now.

Listening via MDR-Z1Rs, I noticed that some resonances from voice recordings picked up by the source mic were being slightly amplified with the upscaling turned on, and that just feels like a crime against all the engineering that went into reducing resonance on these closes cans. 

I appreciate what Sony did with those two functions, but obviously no algorithm is good enough yet to be trusted for all content. These are best just seen as toys to mess around with for particular content and headphones, but no one should recommend having them turned on for everything. I'm still curious about what the new algorithm in the SA-Z1 can do though, it's supposed to be adaptive (forgot the fancy marketing name they're using for it).


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> Following DSD remastering, DSEE HX upscaling also got the axe for me. D.C. Linearizer is the only processing left standing, for now.
> 
> Listening via MDR-Z1Rs, I noticed that some resonances from voice recordings picked up by the source mic were being slightly amplified with the upscaling turned on, and that just feels like a crime against all the engineering that went into reducing resonance on these closes cans.
> 
> I appreciate what Sony did with those two functions, but obviously no algorithm is good enough yet to be trusted for all content. These are best just seen as toys to mess around with for particular content and headphones, but no one should recommend having them turned on for everything. I'm still curious about what the new algorithm in the SA-Z1 can do though, it's supposed to be adaptive (forgot the fancy marketing name they're using for it).


For me D.C Linearizer got the axe even before DSEE HX upscaling,tbh the only advantage i see vs say...a Hugo 2 is the DSD remastering which seems to me like it increases  the soundstage on the Z1R.Cut them all and i feel you're not left with much,but just for fun i'll pull up my Mojo,see how i feel it sounds now.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Umwelt said:


> Following DSD remastering, DSEE HX upscaling also got the axe for me. D.C. Linearizer is the only processing left standing, for now.
> 
> Listening via MDR-Z1Rs, I noticed that some resonances from voice recordings picked up by the source mic were being slightly amplified with the upscaling turned on, and that just feels like a crime against all the engineering that went into reducing resonance on these closes cans.
> 
> I appreciate what Sony did with those two functions, but obviously no algorithm is good enough yet to be trusted for all content. These are best just seen as toys to mess around with for particular content and headphones, but no one should recommend having them turned on for everything. I'm still curious about what the new algorithm in the SA-Z1 can do though, it's supposed to be adaptive (forgot the fancy marketing name they're using for it).


The SA-Z1 was buttery smooth. CLEAR separation of the instruments and it did well of playing everything individually. Doesn’t need heart pounding bass and nothing comes piercing at you. Seems like it’s worth the money. But not something for me since I’m in an apartment


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> The SA-Z1 was buttery smooth. CLEAR separation of the instruments and it did well of playing everything individually. Doesn’t need heart pounding bass and nothing comes piercing at you. Seems like it’s worth the money. But not something for me since I’m in an apartment


Sounds like the Z1r's from the Dave .Same here with the apartment.As a side note, Mojo's actually not that bad,but still a bit worse than the TA with DSD on,gap closes a bit with it off.I remembered the delta being a lot bigger when i first got the TA.One thing that hasn't changed is that the timing (PRAT people seem to call it),i guess still feels a bit off on the TA ,feels a bit less musical,even if more resolving,separated and larger soundstage.


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> Cut them all and i feel you're not left with much



Yeah, I almost feel bad not taking advantage of these features that Sony surely worked so hard on, but at the end of the day even though on occasion they provide a sense of real "improvement" to the sound (like a sense of increased soundstage), they're undeniably mucking up the original content in one way or another, and just one time of noticing something's off is enough to want it off permanently. Even without these processing features the TA produces an amazing sound anyway, so it's not really a waste.

I'm leaving the DCL on for now since it only really affects the low end (supposedly). It's the one I basically can't really tell what is the difference, which is a good thing I guess. What did you notice with it on that made you cut it?


----------



## Gamerlingual

All I can say, whatever ifs, ands, doubts, nags, quibbles some may have about the TA, I’ve had DSD on for 4 days straight and it’s been amazing. My audio and online games, movies, etc never sounded so good. Super happy camper and was right when I said the DMP-Z1 was way overpriced. Maybe at half the price it would be worth it. Time to go enjoy some more DSD


----------



## Umwelt

I had it on for 7 days until it got the axe. But who knows? In another week it may be back! What's for sure is that it's nice to have options


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Maybe at half the price it would be worth it


Exactly my thoughts,maybe that portability and bling could add up to half the price,but no more for me at least.


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> What did you notice with it on that made you cut it?


I liked it on some tracks that are lacking in bass, older stuff,but on more modern songs the low end just became too much.Options are nice,but it does get exhausting at some point


----------



## Umwelt (Jun 23, 2020)

I wish DCL had a button toggle on the remote like DSEE and DSD do. I guess Sony felt it's the kind of thing that you either like for everything or not.

On another note, after listening to some recent masterings I see why so many pictures show volume level at -20 or even -30dB when I was going to the single digits for my old stuff. Loudness wars are REAL.


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> I wish DCL had a button toggle on the remote like DSEE and DSD do. I guess Sony felt it's the kind of thing that you either like for everything or not.
> 
> On another note, after listening to some recent masterings I see why so many pictures show volume level at -20 or even -30dB when I was going to the single digits for my old stuff. Loudness wars are REAL.


Lol,i listen at -40 to -30 depending on the track,but usually around -35.Sure are.


----------



## Rob49

gsiu33 said:


> I am using AudioQuest micro USB to B adapter to connect AK240 to TA. It shall works for Fiio.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-D...59PC3V63YF3&psc=1&refRID=B3VD8WKMT59PC3V63YF3



Thank you for that. I'll definitely order one.


----------



## JerryHead

Rob49 said:


> Thank you for that. I'll definitely order one.


I don’t get it.  Why not just use a USB B to USB C (or whatever connector end goes into an AK240)?  Why do you need an adapter?


----------



## Rob49

JerryHead said:


> I don’t get it.  Why not just use a USB B to USB C (or whatever connector end goes into an AK240)?  Why do you need an adapter?



I haven't got a AK240. I have a Fiio X5iii and the forum member suggests that this adapter will connect to the TA. in order to use it.


----------



## Rob49 (Jun 24, 2020)

gsiu33 said:


> I am using AudioQuest micro USB to B adapter to connect AK240 to TA. It shall works for Fiio.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-D...59PC3V63YF3&psc=1&refRID=B3VD8WKMT59PC3V63YF3



Sorry to bother again. Just to confirm two things, this definitely fits the FiiO X5iii and i'm assuming it goes into the "back port" of the TA ? ( I've just checked Amazon U.K. & they presently have two in stock. )

Thanks again.

EDIT : All sorted now, thanks to audiovisualonline. It seems that i not only need the adapter cable, but a cable to connect into that.....no wonder i was getting so confused !! ( Placed order now, so hopefully all will be fine..)


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> Sorry to bother again. Just to confirm two things, this definitely fits the FiiO X5iii and i'm assuming it goes into the "back port" of the TA ? ( I've just checked Amazon U.K. & they presently have two in stock. )
> 
> Thanks again.



No this is a converter that plugs into the Fiio one end and then need a stadard usb A-B cable to go from the other end of the converter to the TA


----------



## Rob49

nc8000 said:


> No this is a converter that plugs into the Fiio one end and then need a stadard usb A-B cable to go from the other end of the converter to the TA



Yes aware now....edited my post....i did buy a cable that i thought was correct for the side port a few days back...it was just micro usb cable both ends and it connected into the TA & my FiiO X5iii....unfortunately it will not play or charge....but no big loss because it was only £3.

I think i've got there in the end, thanks to you and @Lookout57 for trying to help.


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> Yes aware now....edited my post....i did buy a cable that i thought was correct for the side port a few days back...it was just micro usb cable both ends and it connected into the TA & my FiiO X5iii....unfortunately it will not play or charge....but no big loss because it was only £3.
> 
> I think i've got there in the end, thanks to you and @Lookout57 for trying to help.



I only think the TA will charge a Sony player and only via the side connection with the special cable but having never tried it I’m not 100% sure


----------



## gsiu33

JerryHead said:


> I don’t get it.  Why not just use a USB B to USB C (or whatever connector end goes into an AK240)?  Why do you need an adapter?


There are two reasons. Firstly, you cannot plug USB C to AK DAP, you have to use micro USB. I can’t find a good USB B to micro USB cable.

Secondly, I can use the same AudioQuest Carbon USB cable if I want to switch to connect WM1A / WM1Z to TA. No need to invest in another USB cable.


----------



## gsiu33 (Jun 24, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> No this is a converter that plugs into the Fiio one end and then need a stadard usb A-B cable to go from the other end of the converter to the TA





Rob49 said:


> Sorry to bother again. Just to confirm two things, this definitely fits the FiiO X5iii and i'm assuming it goes into the "back port" of the TA ? ( I've just checked Amazon U.K. & they presently have two in stock. )
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> EDIT : All sorted now, thanks to audiovisualonline. It seems that i not only need the adapter cable, but a cable to connect into that.....no wonder i was getting so confused !! ( Placed order now, so hopefully all will be fine..)


You also need a standard USB B to USB A cable. I am using AudioQuest Carbon, 0.75m length,  bought it from Yodobashi Osaka


----------



## Rob49

gsiu33 said:


> You also need a standard USB B to USB A cable. I am using AudioQuest Carbon, 0.75m length,  bought it from Yodobashi Osaka



What i've ordered is the item you gave a link for & with that a AudioQuest Pearl USB A to B cable.1.5m ( This was the shortest length available / in stock. ) He assured me these were the correct items, but they don't stock FiiO products, but he looked up device.


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> What i've ordered is the item you gave a link for & with that a AudioQuest Pearl USB A to B cable.1.5m ( This was the shortest length available / in stock. ) He assured me these were the correct items, but they don't stock FiiO products, but he looked up device.



Sounds correct


----------



## gsiu33

Rob49 said:


> What i've ordered is the item you gave a link for & with that a AudioQuest Pearl USB A to B cable.1.5m ( This was the shortest length available / in stock. ) He assured me these were the correct items, but they don't stock FiiO products, but he looked up device.


yes, 1.5m is more common to be found in the market. For me, it is too long as now I am only using the AK240 as one of the transport to TA, it just net to TA. I just found a 0.75m one when I visited Osaka in 2018, around $80, very happy.


----------



## nc8000

gsiu33 said:


> yes, 1.5m is more common to be found in the market. For me, it is too long as now I am only using the AK240 as one of the transport to TA, it just net to TA. I just found a 0.75m one when I visited Osaka in 2018, around $80, very happy.



I had a friend of mine make me a nice 20 cm cable


----------



## Rob49

gsiu33 said:


> yes, 1.5m is more common to be found in the market. For me, it is too long as now I am only using the AK240 as one of the transport to TA, it just net to TA. I just found a 0.75m one when I visited Osaka in 2018, around $80, very happy.



Yes, it is way too long, but it shouldn't be too much of a problem, hopefully. Looking forward to using the back port to see if there's any improvement and to see how my TA sounds with the FiiO. I use my connected Sony HAP-S1 much more than my Walkman's.


----------



## Gamerlingual

So how many people use the Audioquest Carbon? How much of a jump in quality is it? Similar to the Kimber Kable?


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> So how many people use the Audioquest Carbon? How much of a jump in quality is it? Similar to the Kimber Kable?


How much of a jump in quality? So I guess how many bit errors are prevented by the "upgrade" cable? Considering that in my test, the included cable exhibited 0 (zero) rejected packets, I would say a 0 (zero) jump in quality. But, of course, none of this matters when you are affected by FUD.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> How much of a jump in quality? So I guess how many bit errors are prevented by the "upgrade" cable? Considering that in my test, the included cable exhibited 0 (zero) rejected packets, I would say a 0 (zero) jump in quality. But, of course, none of this matters when you are affected by FUD.


Well, for me, the Kimber Kable did help the quality improve. The TA also stabilizes the sound signature in the Z7M2 across the spectrum


----------



## darmccombs

Gamerlingual said:


> So how many people use the Audioquest Carbon? How much of a jump in quality is it? Similar to the Kimber Kable?


I recently tested the stock usb cable, an old custom made usb that previous sounded great in a mac mini based system, and the audioquest carbon.  I listened over several days, and I could hear differences between them all.  The audioquest carbon was the best of the 3.  Things were better defined, especially in the mids and bass area.  I would say it was slightly less noticable than putting in a sony kimber headphone cable, because the kimber seemed to alter the frequency respose, where the usb improved the timing.

Yes, they all transport zeros and ones, but maybe different cables introduce more or less emi, and other noise?  I wont try to explain or justify what I heard.  I’m not selling anything, just providing actual listening experience feedback.


----------



## candlejack

darmccombs said:


> Yes, they all transport zeros and ones, but maybe different cables introduce more or less emi, and other noise?  I wont try to explain or justify what I heard.  I’m not selling anything, just providing actual listening experience feedback.


Of course, they don't actually transport zeros and one, it's still voltages, but the tolerance for error is very high compared to an analog signal. 

I understand you are just providing an honest account of your personal experience, but this is more valuable as a proof of how unreliable listening impressions are in uncontrolled experiments, rather than feedback on the quality differences between digital cables. Thinking that one is hearing differences where there are none is nothing unusual.


----------



## Gamerlingual

darmccombs said:


> I recently tested the stock usb cable, an old custom made usb that previous sounded great in a mac mini based system, and the audioquest carbon.  I listened over several days, and I could hear differences between them all.  The audioquest carbon was the best of the 3.  Things were better defined, especially in the mids and bass area.  I would say it was slightly less noticable than putting in a sony kimber headphone cable, because the kimber seemed to alter the frequency respose, where the usb improved the timing.
> 
> Yes, they all transport zeros and ones, but maybe different cables introduce more or less emi, and other noise?  I wont try to explain or justify what I heard.  I’m not selling anything, just providing actual listening experience feedback.


Good to know. But overall, I would hope to find a sound close to the quality of say, the Focal Stellia. I think the MDR-Z7M2 with the Kimber Kable and the Carbon should seal it enough. Doesn't need to be perfect. The Cradle for the Walkman I'm not sure about as I think charging it with my regular cable by PC is enough. Don't you have the Focal Stellia?


----------



## Umwelt

If you think some USB cables (or digital transmission cables in general) sound different, there's good news and bad news. Bad news is you drank the kool aid, good news is you drank the kool aid (it can taste good, even if it's not healthy!)


----------



## darmccombs (Jun 24, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> Good to know. But overall, I would hope to find a sound close to the quality of say, the Focal Stellia. I think the MDR-Z7M2 with the Kimber Kable and the Carbon should seal it enough. Doesn't need to be perfect. The Cradle for the Walkman I'm not sure about as I think charging it with my regular cable by PC is enough. Don't you have the Focal Stellia?


No, I don’t have the Stellia.  I would love to demo pair though.  If i could find a used set at a very good price, I’d blind buy them.


----------



## Gamerlingual

darmccombs said:


> No, I don’t have the Stellia.  I would love to demo pair though.  If i could find a used set at a good price, I’d blind buy them.


They very good. I was surprised, so I would say if you buy them blindly for a good price you're in for a HUGE treat. Is there any way to get the Audioquest Carbon for less than $100 USD possibly?


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Good to know. But overall, I would hope to find a sound close to the quality of say, the Focal Stellia. I think the MDR-Z7M2 with the Kimber Kable and the Carbon should seal it enough. Doesn't need to be perfect. The Cradle for the Walkman I'm not sure about as I think charging it with my regular cable by PC is enough. Don't you have the Focal Stellia?


I wouldn’t count on it,Stellias seem to be in a different class


----------



## darmccombs

Gamerlingual said:


> They very good. I was surprised, so I would say if you buy them blindly for a good price you're in for a HUGE treat. Is there any way to get the Audioquest Carbon for less than $100 USD possibly?


You may be able to find the carbon usb for $100 used if you are willing to wait.


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> I wouldn’t count on it,Stellias seem to be in a different class


Not as much as my ears detected, and I was super happy with the Z7M2 with the Kimber Kable. People have different experiences, but I would say it's a little better than the MDR-Z1R when using the TA, better treble control and overall soundstage. Where the money mostly goes to is in the superior comfort and the materials.


----------



## Fsilva

Gamerlingual said:


> They very good. I was surprised, so I would say if you buy them blindly for a good price you're in for a HUGE treat. Is there any way to get the Audioquest Carbon for less than $100 USD possibly?


Speak with me dealer, he will get you an awesome deal for the Stellias, i´ve bough a pair last year, but sold it in the beggining of this year and settled with the Heddphone from Hedd Audio.


----------



## Gamerlingual

If I’m in the market, will do. For now, I’m doing small bits with the Kimber and Carbon. For now, just the small finishing touches. Thanks for the heads up, sir


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Not as much as my ears detected, and I was super happy with the Z7M2 with the Kimber Kable. People have different experiences, but I would say it's a little better than the MDR-Z1R when using the TA, better treble control and overall soundstage. Where the money mostly goes to is in the superior comfort and the materials.


What did you test the Stellias with? I’m not crazy with the pairing either but i blame it on the Ta


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> What did you test the Stellias with? I’m not crazy with the pairing either but i blame it on the Ta


To each their own. Yodobashi camera had lots of amps to play with in Akihabara. Too many to list.


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> If I’m in the market, will do. For now, I’m doing small bits with the Kimber and Carbon. For now, just the small finishing touches. Thanks for the heads up, sir


If you want to finish it up for realsies, then you should probably change the power cable too.


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> If you want to finish it up for realsies, then you should probably change the power cable too.


Prolly another $100. To what?


----------



## adrianm

Isotek sirius+initium/premier at least.ajust a cable without a filter doesn’t do much if you ask me


----------



## Gamerlingual

@Redcarmoose or anyone else, is the USB B to USB C carbon cable a good option to the TA?


----------



## adrianm

Doesn’t matter man,you’ll
Be happy with whatever you get anyway,seems this is the audiophile way


----------



## Umwelt

Gamerlingual said:


> @Redcarmoose or anyone else, is the USB B to USB C carbon cable a good option to the TA?



You can use Sony's cable plus this: https://www.amazon.com/Syntech-Adapter-Thunderbolt-Compatible-MacBook/dp/B07CVX3516/

Or if you want a single cable solution this will work exactly like the carbon brand cable: https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Printer-USB-C-Black/dp/B00VKSF39O/


----------



## Gamerlingual

Umwelt said:


> You can use Sony's cable plus this: https://www.amazon.com/Syntech-Adapter-Thunderbolt-Compatible-MacBook/dp/B07CVX3516/
> 
> Or if you want a single cable solution this will work exactly like the carbon brand cable: https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Printer-USB-C-Black/dp/B00VKSF39O/


Isn’t the point to the Carbon the better internals to help smooth the sound out or improve it like the Kimber Kable helps?


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> Doesn’t matter man,you’ll
> Be happy with whatever you get anyway,seems this is the audiophile way


Well, you weren’t happy with the TA. So that doesn’t apply to everyone :-/


----------



## Umwelt (Jun 24, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> Isn’t the point to the Carbon the better internals to help smooth the sound out or improve it like the Kimber Kable helps?



My friend, the Kimber cable helps because it's passing an analog signal from the DAC to your headphones. But the USB cable is just passing digital information from one machine to another, it literally doesn't matter. It's just like copying and pasting a file from one folder to another on your PC.

If you have someone crazy enough to help you A/B digital cables, ask them to randomly swap or not swap them, asking you to tell any difference. Then you'll see how unreliable our senses are!


----------



## Gamerlingual

I’ll test it out at E-Earphone. Another listening adventure awaits. Works for me


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Well, you weren’t happy with the TA. So that doesn’t apply to everyone :-/


Yes but that seems to be a rare thing around here.I am fine with it,i just have crazy high expectations apparently.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Anyway, I’m looking for actual owners with the Carbon cable. Is the USB-B to USB-C another good option or just stick to USB-B to USB-A?


----------



## adrianm

Might want to ask Curious cable owners as well.They’re even more excited than Aq carbon owners


----------



## Gamerlingual

Anyone else with actual helpful advice, thank you in advance. At least it’s easy to know who is actually helpful. Cheers


----------



## Umwelt

Hope that's not a jab at me for suggesting that you don't need to waste time and money on carbon USB cables  Honestly trying to help with fact-based information, but I understand that the quest for something more can be fun in itself, even if you know it's futile in advance. That's what Camus taught after all! So go on and have fun with your next experiment my friend.


----------



## adrianm

Ah yes,helpful advice,i remember when i thought i could get that here.You’re being awfully selective about what you consider helpful,seems you’re only interested in opinions that mirror your own. Candlejack and Umwelt explained why they think the cable makes 0 difference,having bought one to test for myself,a Chord C-line.I think i did notice a slight improvement over the 50 cent one,i recommended it more than once,but you're apparently convinced AQ carbon has some magical synergy with the TA so you're just looking for validation,not advice.As most audiophiles.
   I was also serious that the mains filtering + cable (because What good is just a piece of copper for) did make a much more noticeable difference,to me at least, than the rest of the improvements.It is expensive but still better bang for buck.And that has a lot more backing than usb cables,skeptics and all.This just kinda convinced me that the TA's psu design is lacking.Again,some people here don't believe that matters either.That's fine,to each their own as you said.But i think i'm a lot more of a moderate about these things in the middle,trying to bridge the gap.
   No one seems to care about contradicting opinions though which is what turns places like this into Echo chambers, the breeding ground for misinformation and confirmation bias : 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_chamber_(media)
  So what's the value provided in this case? Just validation and a place to brag about gear because let's be honest,no one else really cares.


----------



## Umwelt

For what it's worth, power definitely matters not just for this, but for pretty much all electronics that receive and/or output analog signals. Dirty power is a real thing. Power conditioning is also real. It definitely is something more worth paying attention to and looking for improvements, though only if issues are detected.

So basically, you do yourself a lot of favor by learning to distinguish between things that make a difference, and things that 100% don't.


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> At least it’s easy to know who is actually helpful.


How can you tell?


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Just my 2 cents but as someone who read through a good chunk of the posts on the TA and both Z1Rs, I did get curious about the dock and the carbon cable.
For me, I always had the mindset too that data cables shouldn't matter, as long as it gets from one point to another.
But I lucked out when i was in e-earphone and had several days to try things out so why not.

Going through the dock sounded much clearer to me on the IER compared to the dedicated walkman dock.
When I tried the audioquest carbon cable on the taz to dock (and compared to a generic amazon usb cable), i did hear some small differences.  When listening to LiSA's chill-chill-dal-da, the cymbals and drums sounded more noticeable (louder?  forward?) to me.  Went back and forth on the usb cables and was genuinely surprised.

Can't explain it but i liked how it sounded so I went with it.  Used price helped too lol.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 24, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> @Redcarmoose or anyone else, is the USB B to USB C carbon cable a good option to the TA?







I’ve never used this cable only the regular AQCarbon that goes from the Cradle to the back of the TA. This is a classic controversial subject. But it concerns itself with casework. One of the main reasons the 1Z sounds different from the 1A is the copper casework. The copper affects what EMI-waves enter to the inside of the player. The TA is also very elaborately encased, thus heavy like the 1Z. Put your 1A with the cable coming out to your IEMs and listen to your 1A while it’s inside a small fire-safe. The body of the surrounding fire-safe will bring the sound of the 1A slightly closer to the 1Z. Obviously the 1Z has different capacitors and Kimber cable, and it’s a combination of everything. Still casework matters. The AQCarbon has EMI protectiveness in the casework of the cable as well as metals in contacts and welds which improves conductivity. The AQCarbon didn’t smooth the highs, it actually made stuff sound more clear and actually brighter in my uses?



Spoiler: New Walkman Case









Disclaimer:
Your results may vary from mine. Obviously the USB cable choice is on the outer perimeter of things that make a difference. Money spent on better file quality and better IEM cables/IEMs are going to produce more dramatic improvements. This is concerning possible improvement in the very last % of sound quality.


----------



## adrianm

cosplayerkyo said:


> Just my 2 cents but as someone who read through a good chunk of the posts on the TA and both Z1Rs, I did get curious about the dock and the carbon cable.
> For me, I always had the mindset too that data cables shouldn't matter, as long as it gets from one point to another.
> But I lucked out when i was in e-earphone and had several days to try things out so why not.
> 
> ...


From what i’ve read usb audio cables need to have a certain impedance at least,i just assume the supplied cable didn’t meet it.Since i thought heard a slight improvement as well.But did you compare it with an aq pearl or cinnamon or “lower spec “ cables?


----------



## Umwelt (Jun 24, 2020)

cosplayerkyo said:


> When I tried the audioquest carbon cable on the taz to dock (and compared to a generic amazon usb cable), i did hear some small differences. When listening to LiSA's chill-chill-dal-da, the cymbals and drums sounded more noticeable (louder? forward?) to me. Went back and forth on the usb cables and was genuinely surprised.



Was this a blind comparison, without you knowing if the cable had been swapped or not? It's been shown in countless studies, usually used to question strongly convinced witnesses in criminal trials, that merely the expectation of a sensory difference is enough to produce a sensory difference without an actual change in stimuli.

Now a dock on the other hand can produce different results from another dock of lower quality, since it's literally a different source. But this is a different beast from digital data  transmission that's no different than moving files around in your computer's storage.

edit: actually scratch that, I don't use docks so I can't say anything based on experience. In theory, as long as a dock does nothing but provide a connection adapter, and as long as it doesn't have any power issues of its own, it should also make no difference. But who knows what lazy manufacturers do with some of them, so this one can remain an open question.


----------



## darmccombs (Jun 24, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> Anyone else with actual helpful advice, thank you in advance. At least it’s easy to know who is actually helpful. Cheers


You are smart to test it for yourself.  So far, you've gotten feedback from people that tested the carbon usb and said it offered some improvement in clarity.  Some others haven't tested the cable and theorized that since the objective of a digital cable is to transmit 0 and 1, that is all that is important.

Most Helpful:  Your own ears.
Next Helpful: Feedback from folks who tested the cable.
Maybe Helpful: People who offer opinion based on theory (without actual testing).

<Rant On>
If someone tests a cable and says they didn't hear a difference (in a system with decent resolution), that is a valid finding.  If someone theorizes a finding without testing, I don't think that feedback is valid when so many others have tested and heard difference.​​There was a time when man didn't know much about air, oxygen, and breathing.  The fact that we couldn't explain the science of air, oxygen, etc., didn't mean that we didn't need oxygen to live.  In similar fashion, there are many things we can't measure or know to measure when it comes to hearing and music.  To say "if we can't measure it, it doesn't exist" is arrogant.  To tell others that something can't be, because we don't understand the science is also arrogant.​​Can people seriously claim that we can measure everything our ears can hear and discern?​<Rant Off>

Gamer: You are wise to go test this for yourself, and let your ears decide.


----------



## Umwelt (Jun 24, 2020)

darmccombs said:


> There was a time when man didn't know much about air, oxygen, and breathing. The fact that we couldn't explain the science of air, oxygen, etc., didn't mean that we didn't need oxygen to live. In similar fashion, there are many things we can't measure or know to measure when it comes to hearing and music. To say "if we can't measure it, it doesn't exist" is arrogant. To tell others that something can't be, because we don't understand the science is also arrogant.



Well, except that in the particular case of USB standards, we're not talking about natural phenomena that we cannot know everything about, but about a product that we can and do know everything about precisely because it's man-made. We have not only the theory for it, but the exact measurements, because the measurements follow the standard that is man-made.

Let's put this to rest once and for all (I know it won't but let's try at least). The TA uses a USB-B connector for its USB output, which means it at most has a 2.0 bus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#2.0). Therefore, it's bus is limited to the 2.0 overhead, which is more than ample enough for the data that can be transmitted for any digital music file in existence. Even 1.1 would be enough. Therefore, there cannot be a USB cable that is "faster" than another. They are either compatible or not, with nothing in between, provided they are of the required standard (which is the case for any cable with a USB-B connector on at least one end).

Meanwhile, there is also both an enormous body not only of theory but of empirical studies that make it evident how unreliable sensory perception is when combined with different expectations.

When you have on the one hand voluminous theoretical and empirical evidence telling you that there is no difference in something, and "your own ears" telling you that there is a difference, I'm sorry, but the choice is easy, a reasonable mind will question the vulnerable and unreliable sensory and perceptual faculties of the human animal before anything else.

I'll try to let this be the last word on this particular subject from me, as I'm sure I'm irritating those who have spent considerable time and money on "premium" USB cables. But pointing out a misinformed purchase choice shouldn't be taken as an attack on one's intelligence, much less on your worth as a human being. We're all vulnerable to this kind of thing. Remember: you are not your purchase choices.

Addendum: UAC (for audio streaming) specs are handled on the device side, not by the cable. The UAC specs take for granted the cable used (i.e. it doesn't matter) given that it is a cable compatible with the USB standard used by the device.


----------



## darmccombs

No the irratating part is where people that are applying theory, tell people that have done listening tests, that what they heard is nonsense.  Terms such as kool-aid, audiofool, etc are especially annoying.  Its fine to put forth differing experiences and differing theories.  Most of us are here to share and learn.  The condescending comments that imply other members are stupid for having another experience or result, are getting old.  You cant mention the use of a cable, even in passing here, without some difficult person stating “cables dont matter”, in a derogatory fashion and de-railing the whole thread with a cable debate.


----------



## Gamerlingual

darmccombs said:


> No the irratating part is where people that are applying theory, tell people that have done listening tests, that what they heard is nonsense.  Terms such as kool-aid, audiofool, etc are especially annoying.  Its fine to put forth differing experiences and differing theories.  Most of us are here to share and learn.  The condescending comments that imply other members are stupid for having another experience or result, are getting old.  You cant mention the use of a cable, even in passing here, without some difficult person stating “cables dont matter”, in a derogatory fashion and de-railing the whole thread with a cable debate.


You, @cosplayerkyo, and @Redcarmoose have tried it plus have offered a bit varied opinions about how it can help or maybe barely help. That’s why I wanted to know others who have used it what they think. And yup, I’ll be testing it out first and you are correct that people using condescending comments does nothing to assist the thread.

I mean, if people recommend a different audio cable that honestly helped them out versus a printer cable, I can understand that. The Kimber Kable made a nice difference using the TA along with DSD which I’m still using and loving. So I’ll stick to that mode even after 4 days later.

And @darmccombs The Focal Stellia was really good. It reminded me of the MDR-Z1R minus the piercing treble and pain inducing clamp force. The comfort was super soft despite being a little heavier because of the better materials and padding, offers more sound isolation along the lines of the Z1R and Z7M2, and testing it on different amps, it was a real treat to listen to. Mid bass might be a little stronger, but the low bass doesn’t pound anything hard. These are my observations while using the TA and other amps while helping with your feedback on the carbon cable use on the TA. Thanks and cheers


----------



## Umwelt

darmccombs said:


> stating “cables dont matter”, in a derogatory fashion and de-railing the whole thread with a cable debate.



I did not say all cables don't matter. The topic is not headphone cables, analog cables, power cables, etc. I have* only been referring specifically to USB cables*. Let that be super clear. Again, we know exactly what they do and how they work because they follow well-defined protocols. That's the whole point of there being a _standard_ in USB standard. If your fallible human perception goes against what the standards and specifications indicate, we know what the answer is. This is not just theory. It doesn't matter what your ears and nervous system tell you in this particular case.

Were some of my earlier comments facetious? Yes, sure, and I'm sorry for this. But the core of the matter really is not up for debate. You can't trust your senses more than the protocols and specifications of how the USB standards work.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Umwelt said:


> I did not say all cables don't matter. The topic is not headphone cables, analog cables, power cables, etc. I have* only been referring specifically to USB cables*. Let that be super clear. Again, we know exactly what they do and how they work because they follow well-defined protocols. That's the whole point of there being a _standard_ in USB standard. If your fallible human perception goes against what the standards and specifications indicate, we know what the answer is. This is not just theory. It doesn't matter what your ears and nervous system tell you in this particular case.
> 
> Were some of my earlier comments facetious? Yes, sure, and I'm sorry for this. But the core of the matter really is not up for debate. You can't trust your senses more than the protocols and specifications of how the USB standards work.


You have your views and we have different views. Whoever is right or wrong doesn’t matter as we decide what approach works best for us. If your approach is the end all be all, then stick to that method because it works for you. Anyhow, time to go play with the DSD more. Thanks for those with the Carbon cable feedback. Cheers


----------



## Umwelt

Gamerlingual said:


> You have your views and we have different views.



This isn't really about differing views, unless you consider the work of the USB working groups a "view". 

What I can agree on is that a lot of what we pay for in this field is perception-based, so if you get more enjoyment out of using a different USB cable because it sounded better to you, even if that is based on an illusion, then technically it was worth it. I'll tell you what though, try to do a blind and randomized comparison and if you can tell the difference every time then, congrats, you proved that even the designers of the USB standards need to reevaluate their own creation, and that you have amazing hearing.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 25, 2020)

.


----------



## Rob49

Fsilva said:


> Speak with me dealer, he will get you an awesome deal for the Stellias, i´ve bough a pair last year, but sold it in the beggining of this year and settled with the Heddphone from Hedd Audio.



You promised deals ( DMP-Z1. ) & we're not seeing them ! ??   Can you point me in the direction of the Stellia's deal, please ! ?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 25, 2020)

darmccombs said:


> No the irratating part is where people that are applying theory, tell people that have done listening tests, that what they heard is nonsense.  Terms such as kool-aid, audiofool, etc are especially annoying.  Its fine to put forth differing experiences and differing theories.  Most of us are here to share and learn.  The condescending comments that imply other members are stupid for having another experience or result, are getting old.  You cant mention the use of a cable, even in passing here, without some difficult person stating “cables dont matter”, in a derogatory fashion and de-railing the whole thread with a cable debate.



Truly the USB cable thing is no big deal. All of us are much closer together on our understanding than apart. The best thing to keep in mind is keep a USB choice open as an experiment to discover for yourself if it works or not. At best it’s a subject that we can agree to respect others opinions.......on. If someone believes they do nothing, I totally respect that viewport. As it truly is close to nothing as a change if any.

As a group new members would benefit by putting their time, money and energy into finding new and better headphones. Some of my favorite headphones were $360. So to think the AQ Carbon USB is $170, which makes it a totally small amount of change in comparison to the headphones.......and not a good value. But in defense these things are small end purchases after it all is in place just trying to milk the last % of sound quality. Yes, money would be better spent in many ways, including power filtering.

The biggest issue too is expectation bias making changes that may do nothing.......do something. That placebo is the most difficult part of trying to ascertain truth.


----------



## Sanlitun (Jun 25, 2020)

The USB interface on the TA-ZH1ES uses the 5V from the computer. I have found that it is susceptible to computer noise and cable differences.

I don’t know why Sony didn’t choose to galvanically isolate their USB implementation. It’s the only DAC I use that doesn’t have an isolated USB interface.


----------



## adrianm

Sanlitun said:


> The USB interface on the TA-ZH1ES uses the 5V from the computer. I have found that it is susceptible to computer noise and cable differences.
> 
> I don’t know why Sony didn’t choose to galvanically isolate their USB implementation. It’s the only DAC I use that doesn’t have an isolated USB interface.


This i can agree on,and it should be the only thing that makes a difference when using different cables.And it should have been isolated,but apparently only higher end products are


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> MDR-Z1R minus the piercing treble


The piercing treble is because of bad Psu design + dirty power which leads to  floor modulation and a brighter sound.Adding mains filtering cured to that point where i would've preferred not to have the roll off the Kimber provides.Half the people complaining about the MDR-Z1R are citing overpowering bass and piercing highs as downsides. I think they're just very revealing of downstream components.If you have bad power and poorly design dacs bass will be boomy and  uncontrolled and the highs piercing.On the other hand most people that have used them with Dave for example didn't complain one bit.


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> You promised deals ( DMP-Z1. ) & we're not seeing them ! ??   Can you point me in the direction of the Stellia's deal, please ! ?


My dealer has like a 500 euro discount on them,you could probably get it up to 1000.Not sure about shipping though.


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> You have your views and we have different views. Whoever is right or wrong doesn’t matter as we decide what approach works best for us


This is exactly the problem.God forbid someone change their views based on evidence.Post truth era and etc.
Kinda reminds me of this Asimov quote:


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> My dealer has like a 500 euro discount on them,you could probably get it up to 1000.Not sure about shipping though.



Being in the U.K. there's always that nasty thing called "import duties".


----------



## nc8000

adrianm said:


> This is exactly the problem.God forbid someone change their views based on evidence.Post truth era and etc.
> Kinda reminds me of this Asimov quote:



Well if somebody believes they can hear a thing then you can’t prove that they can’t, just argue that from your understanding science does not support the existence of said thing, so just let it be


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> Being in the U.K. there's always that nasty thing called "import duties".


You're still in the EU so no import duties.This is why i'm in a hurry to get the Dave before Brexit is finalized


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> You're still in the EU so no import duties.This is why i'm in a hurry to get the Dave before Brexit is finalized



I may be wrong recalling but i thought i had paid import duties from other EU countries ??....dependent on the value...?? ( If i'm wrong i should have taken advantage of that DMP-Z1 deal from Spain...)


----------



## adrianm

nc8000 said:


> Well if somebody believes they can hear a thing then you can’t prove that they can’t, just argue that from your understanding science does not support the existence of said thing, so just let it be


I'm not saying cables don't make a difference,even USB.They do make a difference on poorly designed (non galvanically isolated) devices.And any changes just mean +- distortion. Which some might like,some might not.But it kinda defeats the purpose of paying a lot of money for "good sound".
    My point is,is it really worth spending more on the fix than on the solution itself? I'm pretty happy with my TA as it is,but i did pay like 30% of its price for these slight improvements that added up.And when i will eventually upgrade that's money down the drain.At least the mains filtering comes with added protection so i can justify that.


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> I may be wrong recalling but i thought i had paid import duties from other EU countries ??....dependent on the value...?? ( If i'm wrong i should have taken advantage of that DMP-Z1 deal from Spain...)


I've been buying all my stuff from all over the EU for 5 years or more,including the Z1r from Italy and Ta from amazon uk.No extra fees.If you want i can ask my dealer about the lowest price he can give on the Stellias and if he can ship them to the uk.


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> I've been buying all my stuff from all over the EU for 5 years or more,including the Z1r from Italy and Ta from amazon uk.No extra fees.If you want i can ask my dealer about the lowest price he can give on the Stellias and if he can ship them to the uk.



Thanks that would be good....who is the dealer ?


----------



## nc8000

Rob49 said:


> I may be wrong recalling but i thought i had paid import duties from other EU countries ??....dependent on the value...?? ( If i'm wrong i should have taken advantage of that DMP-Z1 deal from Spain...)



Within EU there is no import duty. What can happen if the sellers sells for a big enough annual value to another country, they have to deduct their country’s vat and add the buyers country’s vat. I can’t remember the limit but it is a number of million Euro. 

Like when I buy from amazon in UK they deduct UK vat of 20% (or lower dependig on the item since UK has variable vat) and then they add Danish vat of 25%.


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> Thanks that would be good....who is the dealer ?


https://www.avstore.ro/cautare/?q=stellia


----------



## adrianm

Pretty good deals for combos as well.


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> https://www.avstore.ro/cautare/?q=stellia



£2.235 approx at current exchange rate...not forgetting postage costs, but a good saving....certainly something to consider ! Thanks.


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> £2.235 approx at current exchange rate...not forgetting postage costs, but a good saving....certainly something to consider ! Thanks.


Any time,there's an even better deal on the Utopias.


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> Any time,there's an even better deal on the Utopias.



Thanks....yes i noticed....


----------



## adrianm

Fresh off the press :


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Fresh off the press :



Are your just going to link that without sharing your top 5?


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Are your just going to link that without sharing your top 5?


I'm sure the people have had enough of my ranting.And i honestly don't care enough to make a list anyway.


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> Fresh off the press :




The "No. 1" is refering to "Narcissism" - "Toxic People".


----------



## Rob49

Rob49 said:


> The "No. 1" is refering to "Narcissism" - "Toxic People".



In other news.....my AudioQuest Pearl cable & Dragon Tail have arrived but i'm getting no sound ?? ( FiiO X5iii ) As someone who is afflicted ( Not Narcissism ! ) can someone possible tell me what i'm possibly doing wrong with my "inputs" & "outputs". please ! ??


----------



## darmccombs

Gamerlingual said:


> And @darmccombs The Focal Stellia was really good. It reminded me of the MDR-Z1R minus the piercing treble and pain inducing clamp force. The comfort was super soft despite being a little heavier because of the better materials and padding, offers more sound isolation along the lines of the Z1R and Z7M2, and testing it on different amps, it was a real treat to listen to. Mid bass might be a little stronger, but the low bass doesn’t pound anything hard. These are my observations while using the TA and other amps while helping with your feedback on the carbon cable use on the TA. Thanks and cheers


Thank you for your feedback on the Stellia.  Its very helpful.  Since I am limited to closed back, the Stellia and ZMF Verite are on my watchlist.  I especially like hearing how those 2 perform with the TA and the RME ADI-2.


----------



## candlejack

Rob49 said:


> In other news.....my AudioQuest Pearl cable & Dragon Tail have arrived but i'm getting no sound ?? ( FiiO X5iii ) As someone who is afflicted ( Not Narcissism ! ) can someone possible tell me what i'm possibly doing wrong with my "inputs" & "outputs". please ! ??


Don't you have to set something on the FiiO to bypass its DAC? And I suppose you're using the correct input for the TA, i.e. USB-B (PC).


----------



## Umwelt

Sanlitun said:


> The USB interface on the TA-ZH1ES uses the 5V from the computer. I have found that it is susceptible to computer noise and cable differences.
> 
> I don’t know why Sony didn’t choose to galvanically isolate their USB implementation. It’s the only DAC I use that doesn’t have an isolated USB interface.



It seems like power in general may be a weak point of the TA. Maybe it's not fully the premium we thought it was!   
I recall earlier in this thread someone posted about some modification to the power socket: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ve-from-ifa-2016.818848/page-20#post-13144957
But the TA would probably benefit from a bit more aggressive power mod, at least replacing the PSU with a better and universal external one. That alone may remove most potential power-related noise concerns (though I imagine they would still be very minor even with everything stock).

BTW, another week, another combination of DSP settings on my TA (DSD on, DSEE HX off, DCL off--maybe DSD combined with any of the other two is bad, but alone it seems to help more than hurt, for now... we'll see!)


----------



## Rob49

candlejack said:


> Don't you have to set something on the FiiO to bypass its DAC? And I suppose you're using the correct input for the TA, i.e. USB-B (PC).



Yes, i've set it to USB-B ( PC ) I've just looked at the FiiO settings of which it has got "USB Mode" - Storage or DAC & there's also "line out" & "coax out" in Multi channel outputs...not that i assume that has anything to do with it ??


----------



## Gamerlingual

darmccombs said:


> Thank you for your feedback on the Stellia.  Its very helpful.  Since I am limited to closed back, the Stellia and ZMF Verite are on my watchlist.  I especially like hearing how those 2 perform with the TA and the RME ADI-2.


The Kimber Kable for the MDR-Z7M2 should arrive by early next week. Should make it closer to the Stellia in quality. But man the Stellia is so good


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> This is exactly the problem.God forbid someone change their views based on evidence.Post truth era and etc.
> Kinda reminds me of this Asimov quote:


Isaac Asimov is one of my all time favorites; haven’t seen this quote before so thanks for sharing.  Makes me think of all the people who aren’t wearing masks in hi risk areas.


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> Isaac Asimov is one of my all time favorites; haven’t seen this quote before so thanks for sharing.  Makes me think of all the people who aren’t wearing masks in hi risk areas.


Sweet collection


----------



## Sanlitun

Umwelt said:


> Maybe it's not fully the premium we thought it was!



Some of it is and some of it isn't. I have some pictures of the board and it looks like they are using an in house USB solution. Maybe they did this as XMOS etc didn't meet their needs, or maybe it was just much cheaper to use their regular _LC89075WA_ setup that they also use in other products. 

There is a part of me that would like to say that a lot of the TA is gimmick, but the way they do the DAC gives it a special sound, and PCM sounds great through this unit. 

The proof is in the pudding and this is the unit that has remained on my desk now for some time. I recently shot it out against my Bakoon and NAD M51 setup and still preferred the TA.


----------



## adrianm

Sanlitun said:


> Some of it is and some of it isn't. I have some pictures of the board and it looks like they are using an in house USB solution. Maybe they did this as XMOS etc didn't meet their needs, or maybe it was just much cheaper to use their regular _LC89075WA_ setup that they also use in other products.
> 
> There is a part of me that would like to say that a lot of the TA is gimmick, but the way they do the DAC gives it a special sound, and PCM sounds great through this unit.
> 
> The proof is in the pudding and this is the unit that has remained on my desk now for some time. I recently shot it out against my Bakoon and NAD M51 setup and still preferred the TA.


Any idea how that M51 would compare to a M12?


----------



## adrianm

In case anyone's interested :
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020/06/25/top-qna-with-digital-guru-rob-watts/


----------



## Fsilva

Rob49 said:


> You promised deals ( DMP-Z1. ) & we're not seeing them ! ??   Can you point me in the direction of the Stellia's deal, please ! ?


When i posted the info from my dealer on the DMP thread it was blocked by one of the mods....
So i will PM you the details as i´ve did to other user from the forum!


----------



## Rob49

Fsilva said:


> When i posted the info from my dealer on the DMP thread it was blocked by one of the mods....
> So i will PM you the details as i´ve did to other user from the forum!



Strange that they had no problem when you posted about the Supersonido deal....thanks i'll check messages...bit late here..


----------



## JerryHead

I'm forgetting who it was here who told me to use my computer as source for the TA, and wanted to say, YOU WERE DAMN RIGHT!  I'm listening to Led Zep (Tidal) MQA tracks EQ'd through Amarra Luxe on my MacBook, connected to the TA with the AudioQuest Carbon and LOVIN' IT!!!  Sounds amazing. I ended up breaking down and purchasing the software.  Just waiting now for my ier-z1r's to ship..


----------



## Gamerlingual

JerryHead said:


> I'm forgetting who it was here who told me to use my computer as source for the TA, and wanted to say, YOU WERE DAMN RIGHT!  I'm listening to Led Zep (Tidal) MQA tracks EQ'd through Amarra Luxe on my MacBook, connected to the TA with the AudioQuest Carbon and LOVIN' IT!!!  Sounds amazing. I ended up breaking down and purchasing the software.  Just waiting now for my ier-z1r's to ship..


So you also notice an improvement with the Audioquest Carbon?


----------



## JerryHead

Gamerlingual said:


> So you also notice an improvement with the Audioquest Carbon?


Well, to be honest, I didn't have anything to compare it to besides my WM1A through the included stock walkman cable, but I'm trusting that it's contributing, at least I like to think it is!  LOL!


----------



## Damz87

JerryHead said:


> I'm forgetting who it was here who told me to use my computer as source for the TA, and wanted to say, YOU WERE DAMN RIGHT!  I'm listening to Led Zep (Tidal) MQA tracks EQ'd through Amarra Luxe on my MacBook, connected to the TA with the AudioQuest Carbon and LOVIN' IT!!!  Sounds amazing. I ended up breaking down and purchasing the software.  Just waiting now for my ier-z1r's to ship..



Nice  that's my main setup too. Tidal on PC connected to TA with Audioquest Carbon usb cable


----------



## Gamerlingual

Damz87 said:


> Nice  that's my main setup too. Tidal on PC connected to TA with Audioquest Carbon usb cable


How about you Damz, does it honestly help your sound?


----------



## Damz87

Gamerlingual said:


> How about you Damz, does it honestly help your sound?



It's been a very long time since I switched to the carbon cable, but I remember at the time feeling like there was an improvement, albeit minor. I bought it purely on the advice here and I don't regret my purchase, even if the improvement is a placebo


----------



## adrianm

Damz87 said:


> Nice  that's my main setup too. Tidal on PC connected to TA with Audioquest Carbon usb cable


Same,people on the Dave forum are trying to convince me i need a 10k Innuos server because "it sounds better " when streaming Tidal.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Same,people on the Dave forum are trying to convince me i need a 10k Innuos server because "it sounds better " when streaming Tidal.


It's gotta be true, right? It can't just be a collective delusion.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> It's gotta be true, right? It can't just be a collective delusion.


I'm trying to assume they're not all crazy.I've narrowed it down to this:
Either they're trying to fill a void in their life by looking for continuous upgrades and convince themselves it's worth it , because who's going to admit 20-30k worth of gear doesn't do anything/much)
They have more money than they know what to do with.
And/Or Said gear is engineered to introduce some distortion people find pleasant,i mean,people like tube amps so...
Either way, what's fascinating is still claiming it's better after the creator of the dac specifically explained the buffering and reclocking mechanism and jitter reduction numerous times,and how it's 99% immune to jitter in the audible frequency range and above (he posted measurements at one point) and any improvements are far beyond the audible range ( as he claimed distortion improvements in that area might affect transients,timing,etc).He also said adding a jitterbug (50$) would get that number to 99.75 or something.So esentially it's 10k for around a .025% improvement ,if any


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> I'm trying to assume they're not all crazy.I've narrowed it down to this:
> Either they're trying to fill a void in their life by looking for continuous upgrades and convince themselves it's worth it , because who's going to admit 20-30k worth of gear doesn't do anything/much)
> They have more money than they know what to do with.
> And/Or Said gear is engineered to introduce some distortion people find pleasant,i mean,people like tube amps so...
> Either way, what's fascinating is still claiming it's better after the creator of the dac specifically explained the buffering and reclocking mechanism and jitter reduction numerous times,and how it's 99% immune to jitter in the audible frequency range and above (he posted measurements at one point) and any improvements are far beyond the audible range ( as he claimed distortion improvements in that area might affect transients,timing,etc).He also said adding a jitterbug (50$) would get that number to 99.75 or something.So esentially it's 10k for around a .025% improvement ,if any


All of this still pales in comparison to what my dealer (great guy btw) told me once: that upgrading the power supply of his home internet router significantly improved the sound of the streamed music. Let that one sink in...


----------



## Gamerlingual

candlejack said:


> All of this still pales in comparison to what my dealer (great guy btw) told me once: that upgrading the power supply of his home internet router significantly improved the sound of the streamed music. Let that one sink in...


I wish I could gauge if you’re being sarcastic or not. Perhaps it’s the choice wording that makes it hard to decipher. Oh well. In my case, I won’t upgrade my power supply


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> All of this still pales in comparison to what my dealer (great guy btw) told me once: that upgrading the power supply of his home internet router significantly improved the sound of the streamed music. Let that one sink in...


I know,they're claming that as well.I think the logic is that high frequency noise gets sent via from the mains to the router and then via the ethernet cables into the Streamer.I can maybe see the logic if you're not talking about wireless and it's a  poorly designed streaming dac.But they are streaming to another Dac via usb,which is galvanically isolated.Either way skpetical about audible improvements,but who knows,mains filtering worked for me.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> I think the logic is that [...]


Nice attempt, but you needn't bother: there is no logic, only imagination.


----------



## nc8000

candlejack said:


> All of this still pales in comparison to what my dealer (great guy btw) told me once: that upgrading the power supply of his home internet router significantly improved the sound of the streamed music. Let that one sink in...



I replaced the power supply for my cable box and that gave me much stabler internet connection with higher throughput. Don’t as me why but that was my cable company’s advice and they provided both psu’s both just wall wart types but different


----------



## candlejack

nc8000 said:


> I replaced the power supply for my cable box and that gave me much stabler internet connection with higher throughput. Don’t as me why but that was my cable company’s advice and they provided both psu’s both just wall wart types but different


That's fine. If the power supply was inadequate for the application then it should've been upgraded. More stable internet is one thing, higher sound quality is another. The only effect that a malfunctioning router can have on sound quality is music skipping or cutting off completely. That's very different from _"the bass is now fuller and the soundstage is expanded."_


----------



## JerryHead

I noticed an improvement (albeit slight) in SQ when I upgraded my power cable on my Oppo 103D.  Anyone here upgrade their TA’s power cable, and if so, which did you choose?


----------



## darmccombs

JerryHead said:


> I'm forgetting who it was here who told me to use my computer as source for the TA, and wanted to say, YOU WERE DAMN RIGHT!  I'm listening to Led Zep (Tidal) MQA tracks EQ'd through Amarra Luxe on my MacBook, connected to the TA with the AudioQuest Carbon and LOVIN' IT!!!  Sounds amazing. I ended up breaking down and purchasing the software.  Just waiting now for my ier-z1r's to ship..


This good to hear.  Can you clarify a couple of things?
1) Do you think Tidal sounds better through the Amarra software, than through the Tidal app?
2) Do you think your Macbook or the wm1a sounds better, when connected to the TA?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 26, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> I noticed an improvement (albeit slight) in SQ when I upgraded my power cable on my Oppo 103D.  Anyone here upgrade their TA’s power cable, and if so, which did you choose?



My cables are laughably.....super old. They work better with tube amps but do improve the TA. Still any improvement is marginal at best? You would maybe be better off with power filtering.....maybe? 

Electra Glide Audio Reference Glide-Reference Standard "Fatboy" Power Cord

Electra Glide Audio Epiphany MK2 Power Cord


----------



## darmccombs

JerryHead said:


> I noticed an improvement (albeit slight) in SQ when I upgraded my power cable on my Oppo 103D.  Anyone here upgrade their TA’s power cable, and if so, which did you choose?


I’ve had positive experience moving away from stock power cables to a decent affordable cable, so when I got the TA I used the stock power cable to test the unit and do a quick listen.  Then I put an aftermarket cable on.  I have several laying around from when my home speaker system was more involved.

I noted an improvement, but didnt take notes.  I was more concerned with getting to know the TA, and later testing the other power cords i have laying around.  I did get to A/B test 2 after market cords yesterday.  One was a DCCA Source 2 cord, and another one was a PI Audio cord (amp).  The dcca was warmer and made the bass sound heavier (due to slower decay).  The PI Audio cord was more detailed which allowed me to hear better seperation between instruments and provided a bigger soundstage.

The differences weren’t huge, more like a tiny bit of salt added to a meal, but they were noticeable.  In this case I think picking the better cable is just a matter of taste as both have clarity and good balance.


----------



## JerryHead

darmccombs said:


> This good to hear.  Can you clarify a couple of things?
> 1) Do you think Tidal sounds better through the Amarra software, than through the Tidal app?
> 2) Do you think your Macbook or the wm1a sounds better, when connected to the TA?


Tidal (including MQA) sounds MUCH better with the Amarra software than with the native OS X app, but you have to tweak the included EQ in the Amarra software to find the specific sound you're looking for.  The EQ makes all the difference. The other thing with Amarra is that the software is a little buggy (unless my settings are interfering with the functioning).  Such as, sometimes, when a new track on the same album begins to play, the EQ automatically shuts off, requiring me to bring it up and toggling the EQ back on.  So, with the Amarra Luxe software, the TA sounds significantly improved than with the WM1A alone.  Even with its quirks, I'd recommend it.  Especially if you have a Tidal Hi-Fi account.


----------



## darmccombs

JerryHead said:


> Tidal (including MQA) sounds MUCH better with the Amarra software than with the native OS X app, but you have to tweak the included EQ in the Amarra software to find the specific sound you're looking for.  The EQ makes all the difference. The other thing with Amarra is that the software is a little buggy (unless my settings are interfering with the functioning).  Such as, sometimes, when a new track on the same album begins to play, the EQ automatically shuts off, requiring me to bring it up and toggling the EQ back on.  So, with the Amarra Luxe software, the TA sounds significantly improved than with the WM1A alone.  Even with its quirks, I'd recommend it.  Especially if you have a Tidal Hi-Fi account.


I use High Res Qobuz on a 2016 Macbook Pro.  I just use the Qobuz app and the Audioquest Carbon Usb-c to Usb-B cable.  I also use my iPad Pro with Qobuz.  The macbook sounds a little better, and I like the setup very much.

Like many of us, I am always looking to improve the sound, so I have considered other sources like the WM1A but I need a streaming source which limits the options.  But I still occasionally look for streaming sources with better SQ than the Macbook Pro.


----------



## JerryHead

darmccombs said:


> I’ve had positive experience moving away from stock power cables to a decent affordable cable, so when I got the TA I used the stock power cable to test the unit and do a quick listen.  Then I put an aftermarket cable on.  I have several laying around from when my home speaker system was more involved.
> 
> I noted an improvement, but didnt take notes.  I was more concerned with getting to know the TA, and later testing the other power cords i have laying around.  I did get to A/B test 2 after market cords yesterday.  One was a DCCA Source 2 cord, and another one was a PI Audio cord (amp).  The dcca was warmer and made the bass sound heavier (due to slower decay).  The PI Audio cord was more detailed which allowed me to hear better seperation between instruments and provided a bigger soundstage.
> 
> The differences weren’t huge, more like a tiny bit of salt added to a meal, but they were noticeable.  In this case I think picking the better cable is just a matter of taste as both have clarity and good balance.


Thanks, I can't find those cords for sale online, but doesn't really matter, I wouldn't pay all that much for one anyhow. Just curious, thanks.  Eager now to get my ier-z1r's (still backordered)  and experience the improvement over my SE846's.


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> Tidal (including MQA) sounds MUCH better with the Amarra software than with the native OS X app, but you have to tweak the included EQ in the Amarra software to find the specific sound you're looking for.  The EQ makes all the difference. The other thing with Amarra is that the software is a little buggy (unless my settings are interfering with the functioning).  Such as, sometimes, when a new track on the same album begins to play, the EQ automatically shuts off, requiring me to bring it up and toggling the EQ back on.  So, with the Amarra Luxe software, the TA sounds significantly improved than with the WM1A alone.  Even with its quirks, I'd recommend it.  Especially if you have a Tidal Hi-Fi account.


I didn't test the tidal app with Amarra,but i did with Audirvana,and to me the Tidal app sounded better.(with the correct settings,exclusive mode on,etc).
If EQ is why you consider it to sound better you can throw all assumptions out the window at that point if you ask me.


----------



## JerryHead

adrianm said:


> I didn't test the tidal app with Amarra,but i did with Audirvana,and to me the Tidal app sounded better.(with the correct settings,exclusive mode on,etc).
> If EQ is why you consider it to sound better you can throw all assumptions out the window at that point if you ask me.


Does, "exclusive mode" mean the Hi-Fi subscription?  You'll need to give Amarra a try before you reach a conclusion, and I know most don't like EQ, but if it results in a sound that is closer to what you're looking for, why not?  With the very few sources I've tried, the TA is a tad too dark for me, although I find the soundstage, separation and tonality otherwise sublime.  Maybe the ier-z1r will make me change my mind and I'll shut that EQ right down.


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 26, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> Does, "exclusive mode" mean the Hi-Fi subscription?  You'll need to give Amarra a try before you reach a conclusion, and I know most don't like EQ, but if it results in a sound that is closer to what you're looking for, why not?  With the very few sources I've tried, the TA is a tad too dark for me, although I find the soundstage, separation and tonality otherwise sublime.  Maybe the ier-z1r will make me change my mind and I'll shut that EQ right down.


The IER-Z1R does really good in smoothing everything out. It helps a lot. On the flip side, if the EQ works for you, keep using it. I’ve used a certain EQ setting with my iPhone 11 Pro with my Sony WH-1000XM3 and it made my listening experience much better than I expected. All the instruments can be heard clearly. Good luck when you get the IER-Z1R. If you have any questions about it since I’m in Japan, let me know


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> Does, "exclusive mode" mean the Hi-Fi subscription?  You'll need to give Amarra a try before you reach a conclusion, and I know most don't like EQ, but if it results in a sound that is closer to what you're looking for, why not?  With the very few sources I've tried, the TA is a tad too dark for me, although I find the soundstage, separation and tonality otherwise sublime.  Maybe the ier-z1r will make me change my mind and I'll shut that EQ right down.


No, click the output devices icon,select you TA  and click more settings, use exclusive mode and force max volume,leave passthrough mqa disabled.


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> With the very few sources I've tried, the TA is a tad too dark for me, although I find the soundstage, separation and tonality otherwise sublime.


Pretty spot on with my feelings,though having heard better soundstage separation and tonality...hard to un-hear it.


----------



## adrianm

Also, under "manage my subscription,settings, you need to disable loudness normalization,tidal uses a supposedly improved algorithm where songs are loudness normalized using an average from the album of each particular song,which is better than other ways of doing it,but it still kinda butchers dynamics.These settings add up to more than all the tweaks combined.


----------



## adrianm

Btw in case anyone else wants to try it :

https://www.whathifi.com/news/save-95-on-hi-res-streaming-90-days-of-tidal-hifi-now-just-pound3


----------



## JerryHead

adrianm said:


> Also, under "manage my subscription,settings, you need to disable loudness normalization,tidal uses a supposedly improved algorithm where songs are loudness normalized using an average from the album of each particular song,which is better than other ways of doing it,but it still kinda butchers dynamics.These settings add up to more than all the tweaks combined.


Thanks, that helped, a little bit.  But still, with the EQ from Amarra, it's like a night/day improvement.  Try it if you don't believe me, Amarra Luxe has a free 2 week subscription.  And make sure you spend ample time playing with the EQ.  You'll see what I mean.  Here's where I like my EQ settings:


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> Thanks, that helped, a little bit.  But still, with the EQ from Amarra, it's like a night/day improvement.  Try it if you don't believe me, Amarra Luxe has a free 2 week subscription.  And make sure you spend ample time playing with the EQ.  You'll see what I mean.  Here's where I like my EQ settings:


Thanks but i'm not a fan of eq,i feel like i'd just be undoing the work of people who know better than me and i don't have the time/patience to play around and go down another rabbit hole  .Plus it kinda takes the "Fi" out of "Hi-Fi"


----------



## JerryHead (Jun 26, 2020)

Unrelated (noobie) question. I'm enjoying my TA (kept in my living room) so much, I want to purchase another desktop amp/dac to use in my bedroom with my SE846's, but one that is of lower cost.  I found this one called the Topping DX7s, and it seems to have what I need, but reviews point out that due to its output impedance being pretty high, you need higher impedance headphones as lower ones won't be driven too well. The SE846's are a pretty low impedance earphone.  What problems am I going to be running into?  Just won't sound so great, huh?


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> Unrelated (noobie) question. I'm enjoying my TA (kept in my living room) so much, I want to purchase another desktop amp/dac to use in my bedroom with my SE846's, but one that is of lower cost.  I found this one called the Topping DX7s, and it seems to have what I need, but reviews point out that due to its output impedance being pretty high, you need higher impedance headphones as lower ones won't be driven too well. The SE846's are a pretty low impedance earphone.  What problems am I going to be running into?  Just won't sound so great, huh?


Just get a Chord Mojo  I'm seriously considering sending my Ta back and using my Mojo untill i decide to take the plunge on the Dave


----------



## Gamerlingual

JerryHead said:


> Unrelated (noobie) question. I'm enjoying my TA (kept in my living room) so much, I want to purchase another desktop amp/dac to use in my bedroom with my SE846's, but one that is of lower cost.  I found this one called the Topping DX7s, and it seems to have what I need, but reviews point out that due to its output impedance being pretty high, you need higher impedance headphones as lower ones won't be driven too well. The SE846's are a pretty low impedance earphone.  What problems am I going to be running into?  Just won't sound so great, huh?


Ifi Zen or Hip DAC might not be a bad route. The Hip sounds really good.


----------



## adrianm

Based on the Igalvanic straight up dying after 10 minutes with the TA ,thus confirming everything i've read online about their products, i wouldn't get any other stuff from them.There's also the Audioquest Cobalt if you want something more portable.


----------



## Sanlitun

adrianm said:


> Any idea how that M51 would compare to a M12?



Never heard the M12. I did look at the specs on the NAD website and they show the M51 measurements as being considerably better.

I still feel the M51 is one of the best sounding DACs available, especially considering you can get them inexpensively now.


----------



## darmccombs

JerryHead said:


> Unrelated (noobie) question. I'm enjoying my TA (kept in my living room) so much, I want to purchase another desktop amp/dac to use in my bedroom with my SE846's, but one that is of lower cost.  I found this one called the Topping DX7s, and it seems to have what I need, but reviews point out that due to its output impedance being pretty high, you need higher impedance headphones as lower ones won't be driven too well. The SE846's are a pretty low impedance earphone.  What problems am I going to be running into?  Just won't sound so great, huh?


The RME ADI-2 works well with low impedance headphones, has a clean sound, lower price, an IME output (very low noise), EQ, and is a good all-around dac/amp.  It's worth checking out.


----------



## JerryHead (Jun 26, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> Ifi Zen or Hip DAC might not be a bad route. The Hip sounds really good.


so, "poorly driven" means a muffled, dampen


adrianm said:


> Based on the Igalvanic straight up dying after 10 minutes with the TA ,thus confirming everything i've read online about their products, i wouldn't get any other stuff from them.There's also the Audioquest Cobalt if you want something more portable.


Thanks, but no, I'm not looking for portable.  I'm looking for desktop, with an XLR4 or 4.4mm balanced output, and usb B input and that has a remote control so I can control volume from a bit of a distance.  Something that has a high output.


----------



## adrianm

Sanlitun said:


> Never heard the M12. I did look at the specs on the NAD website and they show the M51 measurements as being considerably better.
> 
> I still feel the M51 is one of the best sounding DACs available, especially considering you can get them inexpensively now.


That's ..weird..considering the M12's retail price is twice the price of the M51


----------



## Sanlitun

adrianm said:


> That's ..weird..considering the M12's retail price is twice the price of the M51



Twice the retail price. The M12 is ludicrous expensive.


----------



## adrianm

Sanlitun said:


> Twice the retail price. The M12 is ludicrous expensive.


Well i was asking because my dealer has an over 60% discount on it atm.I'd still need a headphone amp though,plus i'm sure transparency will suffer


----------



## adrianm

In case anyone's interested,kimber's back in stock on amazon eu

https://www.amazon.de/Sony-MUC-B20S...=1&keywords=sony+kimber&qid=1593203837&sr=8-1


----------



## JerryHead (Jun 27, 2020)

darmccombs said:


> The RME ADI-2 works well with low impedance headphones, has a clean sound, lower price, an IME output (very low noise), EQ, and is a good all-around dac/amp.  It's worth checking out.


can you confirm that this is what you're referring to? 
https://www.amazon.com/RME-Converte...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Also pls send a link to a balanced cable with MMCX connections for this.  I’m having difficulty finding one. Thx


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 27, 2020)

Wow! Getting an up close and personal look at the SA-Z1 with my WM1Z. Still gonna sample their TA with a few other headphones! Time to dig in!! Hope everyone is well.


----------



## raymogi

Gamerlingual said:


> Wow! Getting an up close and personal look at the SA-Z1 with my WM1Z. Still gonna sample their TA with a few other headphones! Time to dig in!! Hope everyone is well.



I've been waiting for it to be released. So I assumed it's arleady out in Japan now??

Gonna place my order soon


----------



## Joe Bloggs (Jun 27, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> Unrelated (noobie) question. I'm enjoying my TA (kept in my living room) so much, I want to purchase another desktop amp/dac to use in my bedroom with my SE846's, but one that is of lower cost.  I found this one called the Topping DX7s, and it seems to have what I need, but reviews point out that due to its output impedance being pretty high, you need higher impedance headphones as lower ones won't be driven too well. The SE846's are a pretty low impedance earphone.  What problems am I going to be running into?  Just won't sound so great, huh?


I don't believe your question has been answered properly so far.

The main issue with having an amplifier with high output impedance, is that with some earphones with *low and variable* impedance (i.e. it is low down to a few ohms at least at one point, and varies throughout the frequency range), it acts like a passive EQ because of voltage division.

I'll use your SE846 as an example for analysis: (information courtesy of InnerFidelity)




The pink line represents the impedance of the SE846 (vertical axis) over different frequencies (horizontal axis).

Suppose your amplifier has a fixed output impedance of 20ohms (as the DX7s reportedly may have).  the SE846 has about 16ohms impedance at below 100Hz, going down to 5 ohms at around 5kHz, going back up to 16 ohms above 20kHz.

The impedance of the earphones and that of the amplifier will compete for the voltage that the amplifier puts out.  This will reduce the output at the earphones compared to if the amplifier had zero output impedance.

The amount of attenuation is given by (Ei = earphone impedance and Oi = output impedance)
.........................Ei
20*log (----------) dB.
......................Ei+Oi
(where the part in brackets is the voltage division rule and 20*log x is the conversion of voltage ratios to decibels)

Solving for Ei = 16ohms, Oi = 20Ohms gives -7dB while Ei = 5ohms, Oi = 20ohms gives -14dB.

It is the relative difference in decibel that matters, so you can read the above graph as an EQ curve, by looking at the pink curve and roughly replacing the numbers on the left thus:




Now, whether this is good or bad is dependent on the existing FR of the earphones, as well as personal listening preferences.  An EQ curve is just an EQ curve, it could be good, it could be bad.  But in this case, given that the SE846 has a lowest point in the (compensated) frequency response at around 5kHz even before you factor in output impedance, this EQ curve is probably bad.

Anyway, high OI of the amplifier is usually regarded as negative because not many earphones have had their impedance curve all measured out like the SE846 here, making the effect of OI on sound something like a roll of the dice.  But 20 ohms OI is a rather extreme case, whereas the iFi Zen for example has under 1 ohm of output impedance, which makes the aforementioned voltage division effect hardly measurable let alone audible.



Spoiler: Regarding the possibility of audible noise floor



(e.g. on the Hip DAC)

Yes, this can be a problem that comes back to bite you, when you have an ultra powerful amplifier that also has near zero output impedance.  As mentioned above, having a 20 ohm output impedance would cut the output down 7 to 14 dB on the SE846 throughout the frequency range, which is as much as what the iFi IEMatch would cut in sensitivity and hiss in High mode (12dB) !

I don't know which output the reviewer was using on the Hip DAC with the Solaris (which I'd also note is 8dB more sensitive than even the Shure SE846, voltage-wise), but I'd recommend that you use the 3.5mm connection rather than the 4.4mm balanced connection.  Reason for this, is that the balanced connection supplies double the power (which these IEMs don't need, at all) at the cost of almost double the noise floor (which these IEMs need like you need an extra hole in your head)

Note that the 3.5mm port on the Hip DAC is also balanced, with special S-balanced circuitry to supply most of the benefits of balanced output to even a standard SE 3.5mm plug.  You can adapt the port to 2.5mm balanced or 4.4mm balanced with cables like these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/hi-end-4-c...dapter-cable-for-sony-headphone-/112748139768 (4.4mm)
https://www.amazon.ca/KK-Cable-4T-T-Balanced-Female/dp/B07Q5TNDKF (2.5mm)

If you still have problems with hiss (though you shouldn't), you can consider getting the iFi IEMatch separately, which is dedicated to cutting down sensitivity of earphones without increasing output impedance of the amplifier significantly.  It can cut sensitivity (i.e. hiss) down 12dB or 24dB.

The ultimate end-to-end solution would be to get the nano iDSD Black Label, with the quiet S-balanced regular output and the even quieter built-in IEMatched output.



Cheers,
Joe
iFi Audio


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 27, 2020)

raymogi said:


> I've been waiting for it to be released. So I assumed it's arleady out in Japan now??
> 
> Gonna place my order soon


Yup it’s out. The cymbals, electric guitar rifts, and trumpets (at least those brass instruments in particular) pierced my ears a bit. If you select Wide on one of the indicating dials, it reduces it. Overall sound is actually very detailed. The level of separation from left and right is bar none solid. What I liked is how the boxes give off solid bass without rocking the tables. No hollow bass yet it sounds full without the need of a subwoofer. It’s hard to describe, but the thumps in the bass inside the box sound neat. Nothing distorted. I would think this is more of a 350,000 yen speaker. 770,000 for what I heard just doesn’t feel right. But hey, whatever works. They’re awesome, but they need to be half price in my view. I spent about 40 minutes listening to them, but maybe a different source instead of the 1Z may change that. Then again, I tried the new ear tips for my IER-Z1R and they rocked with the TA with the 1Z as the source. They actually stay in place even when you’re jogging so long as you get the size that suits you. They don’t slip out and I’ve been wearing them for 90 minutes. There’s even more synergy and I went back comparing to the old tips, a bit more at least. Plus they don’t hurt my ears. Worth the money


----------



## JerryHead

Joe Bloggs said:


> I don't believe your question has been answered properly so far.
> 
> The main issue with having an amplifier with high output impedance, is that with some earphones with *low and variable* impedance (i.e. it is low down to a few ohms at least at one point, and varies throughout the frequency range), it acts like a passive EQ because of voltage division.
> 
> ...


Hey, thank you!  I never imagined I’d get such a thorough explanation.  You’ve really broken it down. Based on all of the data you provided, it sounds like something like the Zen is a much better way to go, running much lower risk of incompatibility.


----------



## Gamerlingual

JerryHead said:


> Hey, thank you!  I never imagined I’d get such a thorough explanation.  You’ve really broken it down. Based on all of the data you provided, it sounds like something like the Zen is a much better way to go, running much lower risk of incompatibility.


The iFi Hip DAC is dang good, so the ZEN dac should be a safe bet.


----------



## JerryHead

Gamerlingual said:


> The iFi Hip DAC is dang good, so the ZEN dac should be a safe bet.


Actually now I’m going back and forth between the Hip and the Zen.  Seems as if the Hip is a little more powerful.  Not quite sure of other differences if any,


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> Actually now I’m going back and forth between the Hip and the Zen.  Seems as if the Hip is a little more powerful.  Not quite sure of other differences if any,


Might as well keep listening to the ifi rep,he seems to have it figured out


----------



## JerryHead

adrianm said:


> Might as well keep listening to the ifi rep,he seems to have it figured out


Makes sense.


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> Makes sense.


You know what else makes sense? Actually doing research and finding any number of reviews , a lot of which clearly state that the noise floor on the hip dac is bad.That's the one of the main problems with sensitive iems:

_*"EDIT:*_ Upon further testing, I noticed that the hip-dac’s noise floor is actually quite audible on very sensitive IEMs like the Campfire Solaris. Therefore, if your IEM has a sensitivity rating above 110dB, you might want to try this out before buying. " 
Source :
https://www.headphonedungeon.com/ifi-hip-dac-portable-dac-headphone-amp-review/

I'm sure the Ifi guy,with his careful research must have come across the fact that your Shure 846's have an 114 dB SPL/mW sensitivity.Which is one of the reasons why  i recommended the Mojo with Iems in the first place,since it has  an inaudible noise floor.Or an AQ cobalt,though i can't find the measurements for that one,but it's probably better as well.But they apparently lack the remote of the Ifi hip dac.


----------



## JerryHead (Jun 27, 2020)

adrianm said:


> You know what else makes sense? Actually doing research and finding any number of reviews , a lot of which clearly state that the noise floor on the hip dac is bad.That's the one of the main problems with sensitive iems:
> 
> _*"EDIT:*_ Upon further testing, I noticed that the hip-dac’s noise floor is actually quite audible on very sensitive IEMs like the Campfire Solaris. Therefore, if your IEM has a sensitivity rating above 110dB, you might want to try this out before buying. "
> Source :
> ...


Yeh, I found that review right after I wrote that.  My bad for getting us so off on a tangent.  Perhaps we should be getting back to the TA?


----------



## candlejack (Jun 27, 2020)

adrianm said:


> Might as well keep listening to the ifi rep,he seems to have it figured out.


This was a different "iFi guy" than the one who previously posted here and the info he provided is correct and on topic: the question he answered was related to Zout. So his recommendation for one of the iFi products seemed fair if output impedance was the only consideration.

Its good that you brought up the issue of audible noise floor, but this doesn't make the iFi guy's post any less valid or valuable. You know how I feel about some of their products and marketing, but it's important to judge each post on its own merits.


----------



## Gadget67

Gamerlingual said:


> Wow! Getting an up close and personal look at the SA-Z1 with my WM1Z. Still gonna sample their TA with a few other headphones! Time to dig in!! Hope everyone is well.


Wow...wasn’t sure they actually existed in the real world!  They appear larger than I thought they were and I believe they are very overpriced but I’d love to hear them someday.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> This was a different "iFi guy" than the one who previously posted here and the info he provided is correct and on topic: the question he answered was related to Zout. So his recommendation for one of the iFi products seemed fair if output impedance was the only consideration.
> 
> Its good that you brought up the issue of audible noise floor, but this doesn't make the iFi guy's post any less valid or valuable. You know how I feel about some of their products and marketing, but it's important to judge each post on its own merits.


I know ,but it still seems like he was purposely ignoring a larger issue.Or maybe i'm just becoming too jaded.


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> I know ,but it still seems like he was purposely ignoring a larger issue.Or maybe i'm just becoming too jaded.


I think you are being appropriately skeptical based on previous experience, but I’m probably being jaded...


----------



## Fsilva

JerryHead said:


> can you confirm that this is what you're referring to?
> https://www.amazon.com/RME-Converte...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
> 
> Also pls send a link to a balanced cable with MMCX connections for this.  I’m having difficulty finding one. Thx


Thats the RME i own...and i used to own the TA....


----------



## Joe Bloggs (Jun 27, 2020)

adrianm said:


> You know what else makes sense? Actually doing research and finding any number of reviews , a lot of which clearly state that the noise floor on the hip dac is bad.That's the one of the main problems with sensitive iems:
> 
> _*"EDIT:*_ Upon further testing, I noticed that the hip-dac’s noise floor is actually quite audible on very sensitive IEMs like the Campfire Solaris. Therefore, if your IEM has a sensitivity rating above 110dB, you might want to try this out before buying. "
> Source :
> ...





adrianm said:


> I know ,but it still seems like he was purposely ignoring a larger issue.Or maybe i'm just becoming too jaded.



Not at all, that's just me being new to the job and new(ish) to iFi's lineup.  The detailed analysis of OI comes from my existing knowledge about these things in general, whereas knowing whether a particular amp might hiss with a particular IEM would come from experience I don't have atm.  And upon further inspection, you may be right about there being a potential problem, although the Solaris is a heckuva lot more sensitive than even the SE846.  As you may know we of course have plenty of amps / outputs that don't hiss with any IEMs, and products dedicated to killing hiss even on amps that do.  That info is now added to the original post for @JerryHead (in a spoiler, to keep the post short).

And with that, I return you to the regularly scheduled Sony programming


----------



## adrianm

I was getting a bit sad today about sending the TA back and living with the Mojo for a few months untill i get the Dave and i figured i'd do some a/b testing with the stock unbalanced cable.And the results were quite shocking.Not sad about sending the TA back anymore.
   When using the single ended connection Chord Mojo is at least twice as good than my  TA.In absolute ,objective terms.Let that sink in.


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> I was getting a bit sad today about sending the TA back and living with the Mojo for a few months untill i get the Dave and i figured i'd do some a/b testing with the stock unbalanced cable.And the results were quite shocking.Not sad about sending the TA back anymore.
> When using the single ended connection Chord Mojo is at least twice as good than my  TA.In absolute ,objective terms.Let that sink in.



Who would have thought that something that looks like a toddler's toy is actually better than the TA! Well, sold my TA just now as well and ordered a Mojo. 
Now that we aren't TA owners we won't be around this thread anymore  but I'll see you over at the Mojo thread, maybe some day I'll also get to see you over at the Dave thread


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> Who would have thought that something that looks like a toddler's toy is actually better than the TA! Well, sold my TA just now as well and ordered a Mojo.
> Now that we aren't TA owners we won't be around this thread anymore  but I'll see you over at the Mojo thread, maybe some day I'll also get to see you over at the Dave thread


Well in this particular case it's twice as good because on the unbalanced output my TA apparently only outputs to the right channel.I had some issues when i first got it and a/b'd it against the mojo in unbalanced but i chalked it up to switching outputs while playing songs and tidal app going crazy and crashing.Then i switched to the balanced cable and never went back to test that output untill now.Kinda crappy on amazon's part selling it as "open box",unless the first owner never bothered to mention this problem.At least this makes my decision for me regarding keeping it untill i get the Dave.


----------



## JerryHead

Fsilva said:


> Thats the RME i own...and i used to own the TA....


How come you sold the TA and kept the RME?


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> When using the single ended connection Chord Mojo is at least twice as good than my  TA. *In absolute, objective terms*. Let that sink in.


I was about to object to the "absolute, objective" part, but then this happened...


adrianm said:


> Well in this particular case it's twice as good because on the unbalanced output my TA apparently only outputs to the right channel.


Ok, I have to give you that then.


----------



## JerryHead

I realize this has been covered probably multiple times before, but what is the consensus on where to put the settings?  DSEE should be left off, as well as the DC Phase Linearizer, correct?


----------



## candlejack

JerryHead said:


> I realize this has been covered probably multiple times before, but what is the consensus on where to put the settings?  DSEE should be left off, as well as the DC Phase Linearizer, correct?


I have DSEE and DSD Re. both on as neither can hurt. Oh, and I don't hear a difference.  So take that, consensus!


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> I was about to object to the "absolute, objective"  part


I know


----------



## adrianm (Jun 28, 2020)

candlejack said:


> I have DSEE and DSD Re. both on as neither can hurt. Oh, and I don't hear a difference.  So take that, consensus!


I guess it depends on what files you're playing, with Tidal,for me DSEE clearly makes everything sound slightly worse,feels like a decrease in clarity.DC phase linearizer on the other hand doesn't seem to have any downsides,it just adds a bit more low end if you feel like you need it.


----------



## JerryHead

candlejack said:


> I have DSEE and DSD Re. both on as neither can hurt. Oh, and I don't hear a difference.  So take that, consensus!


Yeh, what's up with that?  Why can't we hear a difference?  Why would they even put those settings in there if they don't do anything?  Or, under which circumstances do they have an effect?


----------



## adrianm

I forgot it on from 2-3 days ago when i tested something,didn't listen to it since then and today something sounded off and went in to check the settings,both dsee and dc phase linearizer were on.So it's definitely not placebo.


----------



## Gamerlingual

JerryHead said:


> I realize this has been covered probably multiple times before, but what is the consensus on where to put the settings?  DSEE should be left off, as well as the DC Phase Linearizer, correct?


DSD on. Everything else on. Seems to make my MDR-Z7M2 the smoothest sounding whether the source is my PC or my 1Z and 1A


----------



## JerryHead

Gamerlingual said:


> DSD on. Everything else on. Seems to make my MDR-Z7M2 the smoothest sounding whether the source is my PC or my 1Z and 1A


Anyone hear anything they don't like with DSD on?


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> Anyone hear anything they don't like with DSD on?


Just Umwelt.


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> Yeh, what's up with that? Why can't we hear a difference? Why would they even put those settings in there if they don't do anything? Or, under which circumstances do they have an effect?


maybe you guys  need to ditch the sony players for a laptop and a streaming service


----------



## Umwelt

All the DSP settings are probably a crapshoot. I kept going back and forth with them, for now still have DSEE off (it can definitely hurt) and DCL (probably doesn't hurt as much, but meh). DSD on for now, haven't noticed anything harmful from it yet.

I did think it was harmful at first, but it was on along with the other ones, so I decided to give it another shot.


@darmccombs 
I think it was you who were interested in volume  differences between the balanced and single-ended outputs a few days ago. I finally dug out the MDR-Z1R's SE cable (and I really like that it's long, looks like 3m!) and tested it on both unbalanced outputs, and at least for me there's zero volume differences across the board. The only output I have not tested is the XLR4, since I don't have any cable that uses it.

BTW, I also cannot tell any sound quality difference between balanced and unbalanced, in spite of the large power spec difference that Sony reports. Maybe it makes a difference with more power hungry cables, but not for easy to drive stuff like the big and small Z1Rs.




adrianm said:


> maybe you guys need to ditch the sony players for a laptop and a streaming service



May not be bad advice. For music I'm skipping the potential USB BS by simply using my PC's digital output into the TA's optical input. I don't have any files above 96khz/24bit so the cap on this input doesn't affect me.


----------



## JerryHead

Umwelt said:


> All the DSP settings are probably a crapshoot. I kept going back and forth with them, for now still have DSEE off (it can definitely hurt) and DCL (probably doesn't hurt as much, but meh). DSD on for now, haven't noticed anything harmful from it yet.
> 
> I did think it was harmful at first, but it was on along with the other ones, so I decided to give it another shot.
> 
> ...


What exactly is the potential USB BS?  I didn't think there were any downsides?  both USB and optical are digital anyway..


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 28, 2020)

I would say wait for others’ opinions and then gather your opinions after. @Redcarmoose @darmccombs @nc8000 and whomever else I can think of may provide better feedback that’s more in line with what you think of USB cables. I find there is truth to using different USB cables after sometime at E-Earphone and trying different ones may help find the ideal sound you want for your TA. Best of luck and if you’re happy with what comes out, that’s what matters. Cheers


----------



## Umwelt

JerryHead said:


> What exactly is the potential USB BS? I didn't think there were any downsides? both USB and optical are digital anyway..



Looks like you missed the argument a couple of days ago about whether USB cables matter or not, lucky you  But one point that did come up that may have some validity can be found here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ifier-live-from-ifa-2016.818848/post-15700248

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I'm actually not trying to avoid USB necessarily, it's just that in my setup it's much more convenient to distribute all my video and audio signals via HDMI into an HDMI switchbox, from which I can also extract optical out from any source into the TA, so I use that + the analog input for old analog sources.


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> What exactly is the potential USB BS? I didn't think there were any downsides? both USB and optical are digital anyway..


Usb jitter,Usb cables sounding different because of...reasons? Optical is prone to jitter as well,


JerryHead said:


> What exactly is the potential USB BS?  I didn't think there were any downsides?  both USB and optical are digital anyway..


What Gamerlingual means to say is we're idiots for being USB cable "skeptics " and you should listen to others who mirror his(yours?) opinion.Even though i did mention (maybe) hearing a slight difference.
     I'm sure then i speak for the rest of the idiots when i say we're sick of these arguments and we're going to let the believers debate the different type of Usb elves involved with each cable.


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> What exactly is the potential USB BS?  I didn't think there were any downsides?  both USB and optical are digital anyway..



A potential problem with usb is that at least on the TA it is not galvanic isolated so there is a possibillity of electrical noise from for example a noisy pc to affect the sound. Optical being light and not electrical don’t have that problem but is limited to 24/96


----------



## adrianm

nc8000 said:


> A potential problem with usb is that at least on the TA it is not galvanic isolated so there is a possibillity of electrical noise from for example a noisy pc to affect the sound. Optical being light and not electrical don’t have that problem but is limited to 24/96


For the record my 60 euro usb cable seemed to sound better than the included one,but a 15 euro optical cable from sonorous sounds indistinguishable from the USB.So if you can use optical,i would.


----------



## Umwelt

Is it a particle? Is it a wave? It's both! All praise our photon overlords! Optical master race


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


> A potential problem with usb is that at least on the TA it is not galvanic isolated so there is a possibillity of electrical noise from for example a noisy pc to affect the sound. Optical being light and not electrical don’t have that problem but is limited to 24/96


You mostly listen from your Walkman Cradle to your TA or use your PC at times? I agree I experienced electrical noise from my PC when the fans were on too high. Had to adjust some app settings to help make them quieter and it made a difference. It’s good that my laptop offers different fan speed customizations through its app


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> You mostly listen from your Walkman Cradle to your TA or use your PC at times? I agree I experienced electrical noise from my PC when the fans were on too high. Had to adjust some app settings to help make them quieter and it made a difference. It’s good that my laptop offers different fan speed customizations through its app



I exclusively use an Auralic Aries Mini streamer over a short 20 cm usb cable a friend of mine made. I also have my Samsung tv connected over a 5 meter optical. A few months before I got the Auralic my main source was an ancient Acer netbook over optical. I’ve never done any structured comparison of different connection types or cables


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> You mostly listen from your Walkman Cradle to your TA or use your PC at times? I agree I experienced electrical noise from my PC when the fans were on too high. Had to adjust some app settings to help make them quieter and it made a difference. It’s good that my laptop offers different fan speed customizations through its app


That sounds like noise noise,not electrical noise.No reason why fans would induce any more electrical noise oh higher rpm


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


> I exclusively use an Auralic Aries Mini streamer over a short 20 cm usb cable a friend of mine made. I also have my Samsung tv connected over a 5 meter optical. A few months before I got the Auralic my main source was an ancient Acer netbook over optical. I’ve never done any structured comparison of different connection types or cables


I like the simple design of the white box and it has lots of connections. Just like the TA with lots of flexibility.

Whatever approach people use I think what matters what suits their situation best. People who disregard cables or not, no way is right or wrong and that’s what I like about the hobby. There are many approaches to how we listen to music. My buddy believes USB isn’t the answer and he gave me examples why. I don’t think he’s wrong and I told him that it shows how diverse people are in the Audio hobby. I’ve decided not to get the Audioquest Carbon and just keep the stock cable. The Kimber Kable for my MDR-Z7M2 and the stock cables for my IER-Z1R and MDR-1AM2 provide enough audio variety. Better just to keep the TA on DSD and keep the cable management simple


----------



## candlejack

JerryHead said:


> Yeh, what's up with that?  Why can't we hear a difference?  Why would they even put those settings in there if they don't do anything?  Or, under which circumstances do they have an effect?


Some people hear a difference, or at least they think they do. I'm almost certain that those settings have an effect, but it seems that the effect is very close to the audible limit in my case.

DSEE clearly should have a more noticeable effect the higher the lossy compression of the original file. I don't know how one would go about restore/recover/re-imagining the missing information, but I'm sure Sony has some impressive algorithms to attempt that.

DSD remastering is there either because Sony wants to popularize the DSD format (which they were the pioneers of, btw, with their SACD) or they believe their DSD DAC implementation is superior to the PCM one, so they give you the option to run everything through that. The differences, if any, should be minimal ... after all, it's still the same source data (unless something other than the PCM => DSD conversion is being done, but I haven't seen something like that being advertised).


----------



## Redcarmoose

I did find that in a short term sighted test optical was the same as the Walkmans in the Cradle with an AQCarbon USB. In the short test it seemed that optical from a digital source was better than USB, better timing and clarity? So if people’s files were below the optical bit-rate ceiling it may be the way to go. Strange that Coaxial is also not as good? Not sure why digital sources matter to the TA, but each sounds different, though optical is the leader along with the Cradle. The choice of USB  cable is the smallest extra, and it ends up undetermined as a success at times, and other times a slight improvement. Though I still pretty much believe the AQCarbon gets the sound slightly clearer and slightly brighter. Though this is not always the case? I still want to do a blind test to try and determine the ability of changing USB cables, but I’m pretty sure it would be a failure in hearing differences in a blind test?


----------



## adrianm

Since my Ta is going away soon i'm considering ordering an adapter i was going to go for a 6.35 but no point untill i get the Dave later,since i'm going to be stuck with Mojo for a while.So 4.4 to 3.5 it is.I was curious to use the TA to test any audible differences ,but since i now found out the single ended 3.5 output is busted on it...i guess i'm going to use this adapter into the 3.5 to 6.3 plug supplied with the Z1R's and a/b that against the balanced ,not sure if it's a good way to find any degradation though,since balanced and unbalanced sound inherently different to me.

https://www.amazon.de/FiiO-LL-4-4M-männlich-Pentacon-weiblich/dp/B07Q5ZVBX9/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?dchild=1&keywords=4,4+bis+3,5+fiio&qid=1593382328&sr=8-1-fkmr0

Edit : Nvm,just read the reviews


----------



## iFi audio (Jun 28, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> Actually now I’m going back and forth between the Hip and the Zen. Seems as if the Hip is a little more powerful. Not quite sure of other differences if any,



ZEN DAC and hip-dac share identical analogue and headphone amp circuitry, and also the same output impedance, but their output power is different; 3.7V battery vs 5V USB bus power.

The choice between these two products should narrow down to their different usage scenarios. ZEN DAC is a desktop device, whereas hip-dac is portable


----------



## Umwelt

candlejack said:


> DSEE clearly should have a more noticeable effect the higher the lossy compression of the original file. I don't know how one would go about restore/recover/re-imagining the missing information, but I'm sure Sony has some impressive algorithms to attempt that.



You know what they say about all upscaling in general, you can't recreate lost detail. You can try to fill in the gaps though. Anyway, I found an old 128kbps joint stereo MP3 song, probably something I downloaded from Napster almost two decades ago lol

Toggling the DSEE HX (Standard) on and off, I don't think I could hear any difference. Maybe a tad less of the boxed-in feeling you get from such compressed files? But I didn't blind test it so I'm gonna say it does nothing. But that may also indicate that the upscaling is generally innocuous, so it's probably fine to leave it on even if useless.


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> You know what they say about all upscaling in general, you can't recreate lost detail.


It's true ,but in audio the data is deconstructed in such a way so you could recreate it as close to the original signal as possible.Plus because of the way the filters work upsampling does make sense up to a point,diminishes the margin of error .
    Or you could just add a kick ass usb cable


----------



## darmccombs (Jun 28, 2020)

JerryHead said:


> What exactly is the potential USB BS?  I didn't think there were any downsides?  both USB and optical are digital anyway..


The questions isn't weather USB will transmit 0 and 1s.  It will, and most USB cables do this woithout dropping data.  It's the potential for EMI noise that can make USB cables sound differently.  Some also say differences in impedance, but I'm not smart enough in this are to weigh in.

So shorter USB usually pick up less noise.  Good connectors seem to pick up less noise.  Sheilded cables too.  *Here's a fun test *for folks that don't want to but an expensive cable.  Take you current stock USB cable and put a ferrite on each end, and see if you hear a difference.  Sometimes this cleans up the sound a bit (reduces the noise picked up by the cable).  I think I spent $12 on amazon for 4 ferrites aech, in 4 diameters/sizes (16 in total).


----------



## JerryHead (Jun 29, 2020)

deleted


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 29, 2020)

Testing these two Focal headphones out now and eventually with the TA (TA shot included)


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Testing these two Focal headphones out now and eventually with the TA (TA shot included)


So weird how in japan expensive gear is laid out like in bazaar


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> So weird how in japan expensive gear is laid out like in bazaar


They were behind glass display cases. I asked to sample them. So those were the first two I ask for


----------



## candlejack

darmccombs said:


> So shorter USB usually pick up less noise.  Good connectors seem to pick up less noise.  Sheilded cables too.  *Here's a fun test *for folks that don't want to but an expensive cable.  Take you current stock USB cable and put a ferrite on each end, and see if you hear a difference.  Sometimes this cleans up the sound a bit (reduces the noise picked up by the cable).


An equally fun test for those who did buy an expensive USB cable would be to do a blind test against the stock cable (which btw, does have a ferite element).


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> They were behind glass display cases. I asked to sample them. So those were the first two I ask for


What's the price on the Utopias?


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 29, 2020)

adrianm said:


> What's the price on the Utopias?


366,000 yen

Some pics of the shop:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sony-nw-wm1z-wm1a.815841/post-15708534


----------



## Umwelt

Gamerlingual said:


> Testing these two Focal headphones out now and eventually with the TA (TA shot included)



So what did you think of these two headphones on the TA?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Umwelt said:


> So what did you think of these two headphones on the TA?


I like the Clear much more than the Utopia. The Clear had solid instrument pitches all around having good bass with nothing drowned out. The Utopia had a more open soundstage but sounded too metallic on certain instruments at times. The voices popped out over the instruments, so the overall presentation is not what I would classify as $4,000 headphones. Big win to the Clear.


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> I like the Clear much more than the Utopia. The Clear had solid instrument pitches all around having good bass with nothing drowned out. The Utopia had a more open soundstage but sounded too metallic on certain instruments at times. The voices popped out over the instruments, so the overall presentation is not what I would classify as $4,000 headphones. Big win to the Clear.


What is it with you and flagship headphones?  I assume you'd like the Arya more than the Susvara/He1000 as well.I think these flagships need a Dac/amp better than the TA to shine tbh.Both the Z1r and Utopia are very revealing of downstream components. I've read reviews for both of them mentioning they need really good sources to shine ,and with Utopia even more so.It also kinda mirrors what i've heard with the Z1r.


----------



## Gadget67

Gamerlingual said:


> Testing these two Focal headphones out now and eventually with the TA (TA shot included)


I definitely have an opinion here...


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> What is it with you and flagship headphones?  I assume you'd like the Arya more than the Susvara/He1000 as well.I think these flagships need a Dac/amp better than the TA to shine tbh.Both the Z1r and Utopia are very revealing of downstream components. I've read reviews for both of them mentioning they need really good sources to shine ,and with Utopia even more so.It also kinda mirrors what i've heard with the Z1r.


*upstream.


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> What is it with you and flagship headphones?  I assume you'd like the Arya more than the Susvara/He1000 as well.I think these flagships need a Dac/amp better than the TA to shine tbh.Both the Z1r and Utopia are very revealing of downstream components. I've read reviews for both of them mentioning they need really good sources to shine ,and with Utopia even more so.It also kinda mirrors what i've heard with the Z1r.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> *upstream.


You're right


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


>


Never heard of it but seems like an expensive amp,what's the Dac though?


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> Never heard of it but seems like an expensive amp,what's the Dac though?


It’s an all in one like the TA


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> It’s an all in one like the TA


https://www.cma.audio/en/categories/headphones/headphone-amps/niimbus-us4
Doesn't seem like it


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> https://www.cma.audio/en/categories/headphones/headphone-amps/niimbus-us4
> Doesn't seem like it


That’s the store clerk explained to me in Japanese


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> That’s the store clerk explained to me in Japanese



It does not have a dac, only analog inputs and outputs plus headphone out


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


> It does not have a dac, only analog inputs and outputs plus headphone out


Then he goofed. The source of the audio was an Windows PC. Didn’t bother inspecting further as I was just more focused on the headphones. That was all I wanted to focus on while using the Nimbus and it worked out at least


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> Then he goofed. The source of the audio was an Windows PC. Didn’t bother inspecting further as I was just more focused on the headphones. That was all I wanted to focus on while using the Nimbus and it worked out at least



Not unless it is a different model to the one linked


----------



## adrianm

nc8000 said:


> Not unless it is a different model to the one linked


There are no variations with a Dac of that amp.So it was basically a 5$ windows soundcard into a 5k amp and 4k headphones ?


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> What is it with you and flagship headphones?  I assume you'd like the Arya more than the Susvara/He1000 as well.I think these flagships need a Dac/amp better than the TA to shine tbh.Both the Z1r and Utopia are very revealing of downstream components. I've read reviews for both of them mentioning they need really good sources to shine ,and with Utopia even more so.It also kinda mirrors what i've heard with the Z1r.



Can't speak of the Utopia, but the Z1R is not a very demanding HP, and it should attain at a minimum near-ideal performance with the TA, especially considering that the two products were designed and tuned in parallel by Sony.


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> Can't speak of the Utopia, but the Z1R is not a very demanding HP, and it should attain at a minimum near-ideal performance with the TA, especially considering that the two products were designed and tuned in parallel by Sony.


I don't mean demanding as in throwing Watts at it,i mean as in revealing.I guess it depends how close to ideal you want to get.And how much you value subtleties.I think in terms of instrument separation,layering and overall detail it's a lot better with the Dave (and probably same level dacs) than the TA.Other reviewers tend to agree. Subjectivity aside,can't really judge a headphone without maxing out your sources (files and dac), amps come later and make a far lesser impact for most.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Back view of the setup


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Back view of the setup


Could be going into anything  just check the Windows desktop output device


----------



## Gadget67

Gamerlingual said:


> I like the Clear much more than the Utopia. The Clear had solid instrument pitches all around having good bass with nothing drowned out. The Utopia had a more open soundstage but sounded too metallic on certain instruments at times. The voices popped out over the instruments, so the overall presentation is not what I would classify as $4,000 headphones. Big win to the Clear.


I have listened extensively to the Utopia since I purchased it in February.  After purchasing the Stellia I really wanted to try the Focal Arche and purchased the Arche/Clear combo intending to sell the Clear at a later point or gifting them to my stepson.  After spending a fair amount of time evaluating all three headphones with the TA, Arche and Phonitor with Arche or TA as a DAC, I agree 100% with your assessment.  Could have saved a small fortune if I started with the Clear to begin with!  The biggest downside to the Clear is that the microfiber fabric pads absorb moisture like a dehydrated camel when it’s humid.  I will now only use them in an air conditioned environment or cooler weather.  People complain about this in the Clear thread; replacement pads are $190-200 so keep that in mind but you can buy lots of pads with what you will save over the Utopia!  To sum it up, the Clear is more “musical”, less fatiguing to listen to and is still very revealing.  As you’d expect, all three shine with the Arche when using the headphone specific amp setting in the Arche menu.  The TA however just really goes well with the Phonitor as opposed to the Arche but I’ll need to play more with the Phonitor/Arche combination.  I’m leaning to the Stellia as my overall favorite though...


----------



## Umwelt

There's actually a lot of precedent for people preferring the Clear over the Utopia in absolute terms. Funnily enough, I've read multiple times about people who prefer the Utopia after swapping in the Clear ear pads. 
At the same time, it's not rare to hear of people who prefer the Z1R over both of the Focals.


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> I have listened extensively to the Utopia since I purchased it in February.  After purchasing the Stellia I really wanted to try the Focal Arche and purchased the Arche/Clear combo intending to sell the Clear at a later point or gifting them to my stepson.  After spending a fair amount of time evaluating all three headphones with the TA, Arche and Phonitor with Arche or TA as a DAC, I agree 100% with your assessment.  Could have saved a small fortune if I started with the Clear to begin with!  The biggest downside to the Clear is that the microfiber fabric pads absorb moisture like a dehydrated camel when it’s humid.  I will now only use them in an air conditioned environment or cooler weather.  People complain about this in the Clear thread; replacement pads are $190-200 so keep that in mind but you can buy lots of pads with what you will save over the Utopia!  To sum it up, the Clear is more “musical”, less fatiguing to listen to and is still very revealing.  As you’d expect, all three shine with the Arche when using the headphone specific amp setting in the Arche menu.  The TA however just really goes well with the Phonitor as opposed to the Arche but I’ll need to play more with the Phonitor/Arche combination.  I’m leaning to the Stellia as my overall favorite though...


How come you prefer the Stellia over open backed ?


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jun 29, 2020)

Gadget67 said:


> I have listened extensively to the Utopia since I purchased it in February.  After purchasing the Stellia I really wanted to try the Focal Arche and purchased the Arche/Clear combo intending to sell the Clear at a later point or gifting them to my stepson.  After spending a fair amount of time evaluating all three headphones with the TA, Arche and Phonitor with Arche or TA as a DAC, I agree 100% with your assessment.  Could have saved a small fortune if I started with the Clear to begin with!  The biggest downside to the Clear is that the microfiber fabric pads absorb moisture like a dehydrated camel when it’s humid.  I will now only use them in an air conditioned environment or cooler weather.  People complain about this in the Clear thread; replacement pads are $190-200 so keep that in mind but you can buy lots of pads with what you will save over the Utopia!  To sum it up, the Clear is more “musical”, less fatiguing to listen to and is still very revealing.  As you’d expect, all three shine with the Arche when using the headphone specific amp setting in the Arche menu.  The TA however just really goes well with the Phonitor as opposed to the Arche but I’ll need to play more with the Phonitor/Arche combination.  I’m leaning to the Stellia as my overall favorite though...


Stellia is really good. It was so close, it is more musical than the Utopia in hindsight. The Stellia I found just needed a little more in the bass guitar or instruments in that frequency range. As far as moisture and all, my listening area is at the end of the living room and next to the AC unit. So I would use it at my desk only now that you provided that feedback if I ever decided to go that route. But the Clear was really good with the TA and 1Z. If people don't agree with me, I'm ok with that and they can love whatever headphones suit them, amps and all.


----------



## adrianm (Jun 29, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> Stellia is really good. It was so close, it is more musical than the Utopia in hindsight. The Stellia I found just needed a little more in the bass guitar or instruments in that frequency range. As far as moisture and all, my listening area is at the end of the living room and next to the AC unit. So I would use it at my desk only now that you provided that feedback if I ever decided to go that route. But the Clear was really good with the TA and 1Z. If people don't agree with me, I'm ok with that and they can love whatever headphones suit them, amps and all.


My dealer also has a good deal on the Clears,too bad i'm not sure how you could sort out the shipping to Japan part.1.1k$


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> How come you prefer the Stellia over open backed ?


It’s really all about ambient noise.  For example, my window air conditioner does make enough background noise to be a bit distracting and the Stellias help with that.  After spending plenty of time with the Utopia and Stellia, I’d pick the Utopia in a dead quiet environment but there is almost always some small level of noise.  Unfortunately I have Incredibly sensitive hearing so small background noises are distracting to me.  Makes my wife crazy since her hearing is not nearly as sensitive and she continually accuses me of “hearing things”.  Sometimes I’ll take her to the source of a noise and then she says “you couldn’t possibly be hearing that”...I just can’t win!


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> My dealer also has a good deal on the Clears,too bad i'm not sure how you could sort out the shipping to Japan part.1.1k$


Meaning 1,100 Euros before shipping?


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> It’s really all about ambient noise.  For example, my window air conditioner does make enough background noise to be a bit distracting and the Stellias help with that.  After spending plenty of time with the Utopia and Stellia, I’d pick the Utopia in a dead quiet environment but there is almost always some small level of noise.  Unfortunately I have Incredibly sensitive hearing so small background noises are distracting to me.  Makes my wife crazy since her hearing is not nearly as sensitive and she continually accuses me of “hearing things”.  Sometimes I’ll take her to the source of a noise and then she says “you couldn’t possibly be hearing that”...I just can’t win!


Ha that's exactly why i don't get open backs.There's always something in the background.Plus she'd get annoyed with hearing my music (not that the Z1r's don't leak sound).If i was to get open backed though, they would CLEARly be planars,i loved my Oppo pm-3s up to a point.I don't think there are any closed back planar flagships,right?


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> Meaning 1,100 Euros before shipping?


1052 before shipping ,but i'm not sure if they do ship externally,i could ask if you want.


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> Back view of the setup



It’s got at set of balanced cables going into it so it is probably being fed by some balanced dac


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> Ha that's exactly why i don't get open backs.There's always something in the background.Plus she'd get annoyed with hearing my music (not that the Z1r's don't leak sound).If i was to get open backed though, they would CLEARly be planars,i loved my Oppo pm-3s up to a point.I don't think there are any closed back planar flagships,right?


Closed back headphones have obviously come a long way; the Stellia is absolutely the best I’ve ever heard.  You could try Audeze LCD-XC.  Here’s a link to them:

https://www.audeze.com/products/lcd-xc

i still own the LCD-X open back but they are gathering some dust for now...I’ll have to put them back in my rotation!


----------



## Gamerlingual

adrianm said:


> 1052 before shipping ,but i'm not sure if they do ship externally,i could ask if you want.


It might go for about 1300 euros in Japan. It’s fine if he can’t ship it out. I’ll just keep building my savings if I ever go that route. Thank you kindly, tho


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> Closed back headphones have obviously come a long way; the Stellia is absolutely the best I’ve ever heard.  You could try Audeze LCD-XC.  Here’s a link to them:
> 
> https://www.audeze.com/products/lcd-xc
> 
> i still own the LCD-X open back but they are gathering some dust for now...I’ll have to put them back in my rotation!


This is the first pair of high end headphones i've ever tried, absolutely loved them.But they were so heavy they were super uncomfortable after 15-20 minutes.


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> This is the first pair of high end headphones i've ever tried, absolutely loved them.But they were so heavy they were super uncomfortable after 15-20 minutes.


Everything is a compromise...do some neck exercises!  But seriously, those are the best closed back planar headphones I’m aware of.


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> Everything is a compromise...do some neck exercises!  But seriously, those are the best closed back planar headphones I’m aware of.


Best of i'm aware of as well.


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> Ha that's exactly why i don't get open backs.There's always something in the background.Plus she'd get annoyed with hearing my music (not that the Z1r's don't leak sound).If i was to get open backed though, they would CLEARly be planars,i loved my Oppo pm-3s up to a point.I don't think there are any closed back planar flagships,right?


so, buy open back headphones and get one of these:
https://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/the-personal-space-isolation-helmet/

Or you can cheap out and get this:


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> The Stellia I found just needed a little more in the bass guitar or instruments in that frequency range.


Sounds like a z1r


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> https://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/the-personal-space-isolation-helmet/


this looks amazing for an open space office )


----------



## adrianm

Does anyone know where this might still be available in the EU? 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...&pf_rd_p=e632fea2-678f-4848-9a97-bcecda59cb4e

I can't seem to find a good adapter 4.4 to 6.3 or even 3.5


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> I can't seem to find a good adapter 4.4 to 6.3 or even 3.5


I think this was recommended by a few users: Aliexpress adapters.


----------



## Umwelt

candlejack said:


> I think this was recommended by a few users: Aliexpress adapters.



I wouldn't recommend it actually. I got one and the male connector came off the casing the first time I unplugged it (without using anything remotely close to excessive force). Also it didn't pass both channels' sounds with all headphones.


----------



## candlejack

Umwelt said:


> I wouldn't recommend it actually. I got one and the male connector came off the casing the first time I unplugged it (without using anything remotely close to excessive force). Also it didn't pass both channels' sounds with all headphones.


Thanks for the review... I was thinking of getting this myself, but it was one of those things that I didn't really need (except for testing other equipment) so I kept postponing. Looks like you saved me some money and annoyance.


----------



## Fsilva

JerryHead said:


> How come you sold the TA and kept the RME?



Because the RME is better....


----------



## Umwelt

candlejack said:


> Thanks for the review... I was thinking of getting this myself, but it was one of those things that I didn't really need (except for testing other equipment) so I kept postponing. Looks like you saved me some money and annoyance.



Yeah, next time I'd try one of those short patch cables instead. 



Fsilva said:


> Because the RME is better....



Damn. Rub it in on a thread full of TA owners!


----------



## candlejack

Umwelt said:


> Damn. Rub it in on a thread full of TA owners!


Well obviously because he thinks the RME is better.  A better question would've been: what aspect of the RME is better in your opinion?


----------



## Fsilva

Umwelt said:


> Yeah, next time I'd try one of those short patch cables instead.
> 
> 
> 
> Damn. Rub it in on a thread full of TA owners!


Why not? I used to own the TA...Just shedding some light...as it seems most of you prefer to spend more for less....


----------



## candlejack

Fsilva said:


> Why not? I used to own the TA...Just shedding some light...as it seems most of you prefer to spend more for less....


Someone who lists cables in his signature really shouldn't judge.


----------



## Fsilva

candlejack said:


> Someone who lists cables in his signature really shouldn't judge.


If you´re referring to the Silver Widow 24 V2 OCC Silver Headphone Cable terminated with 4.4mm Furutech... plug i stopped using that cable months ago...i´m using some chi-fi cable and with no idea to swap...


----------



## candlejack

Fsilva said:


> If you´re referring to the Silver Widow 24 V2 OCC Silver Headphone Cable terminated with 4.4mm Furutech... plug i stopped using that cable months ago...i´m using some chi-fi cable and with no idea to swap...


Time to update the sig then I guess.


----------



## Umwelt

Fsilva said:


> Why not? I used to own the TA...Just shedding some light...as it seems most of you prefer to spend more for less....



Your light may be someone else's darkness, my friend. One could also say that the RME is good for the amateur sound engineer doing freelance gigs at home, and for helping a veteran uncle with a broken ear drum from a grenade explosion listen to music with balance again (something like this is actually in the RME manual, no joke!). 
And the TA on the other hand is better for when you just want to sit back and enjoy the pure pleasure of music as God Sony intended


----------



## darmccombs

Umwelt said:


> Yeah, next time I'd try one of those short patch cables instead.
> 
> 
> 
> Damn. Rub it in on a thread full of TA owners!


HAHA, I have the RME and the TA, so I can't be offended however this RME-TA battle turns out.

I enjoy both, but if I had to keep just one, it would be...........    🤣


----------



## adrianm

I know this might come as a shock to most of you,but i think the Dave is also better than the TA AND RME.
 Drop.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> I know this might come as a shock to most of you,but i think the Dave is also better than the TA AND RME.
> Drop.


This is still based on a single audition, right? You're setting yourself up for a massive disappointment.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> This is still based on a single audition, right? You're setting yourself up for a massive disappointment.


You could've assumed that judging by most reviews ,not to mention the price delta.I'll audition it again before sending the TA back,who knows,Dave might have an off day.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Fsilva said:


> Why not? I used to own the TA...Just shedding some light...as it seems most of you prefer to spend more for less....



So you’ve made your point numerous times. We read you loud and clear. Have a great one.........cheers!


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> This is still based on a single audition, right? You're setting yourself up for a massive disappointment.


Still ,i'm curious as to what this is based on.


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> I know this might come as a shock to most of you,but i think the Dave is also better than the TA AND RME.
> Drop.


Everything I’ve read and heard about the Dave leads me to conclude it is an exceptional DAC/amp, but remember that “better” is open to lots of interpretation when it comes to these comparisons.  For example, I assumed my Focal Utopia would be “better” than other headphones until ambient noise reared it’s very ugly head.  You just may find all of that clarity and detail will suffer without absolute quiet along with a great chain of supporting equipment.  That said, I’d buy one!  Can the M-scaler be far behind?


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Still ,i'm curious as to what this is based on.


Oh, it's nothing too interesting. It just seems to me that your memory of the Dave has by now been significantly distorted by your own hype.  I hope it's not the case, but I've had the _pleasure _of burning myself like that before, so I speak from personal experience.


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> Everything I’ve read and heard about the Dave leads me to conclude it is an exceptional DAC/amp, but remember that “better” is open to lots of interpretation when it comes to these comparisons.  For example, I assumed my Focal Utopia would be “better” than other headphones until ambient noise reared it’s very ugly head.  You just may find all of that clarity and detail will suffer without absolute quiet along with a great chain of supporting equipment.  That said, I’d buy one!  Can the M-scaler be far behind?


That's exactly why i never went for open headphones.The M-scaler will have to wait unfortunately for at least a year after the Dave


----------



## adrianm (Jun 30, 2020)

candlejack said:


> Oh, it's nothing too interesting. It just seems to me that your memory of the Dave has by now been significantly distorted by your own hype.  I hope it's not the case, but I've had the _pleasure _of burning myself like that before, so I speak from personal experience.


The hype was pretty much instant the moment i heard it,if anything it's kinda faded away.Plus i was really hoping not to like it,like the TT2.Doesn't hurt to audition again though.


----------



## adrianm

Here's a fun question : 
Since i can't find an adapter or the 6.3mm sony kimber cable i was looking around and i notice Kimber Kable sold separately is actually quite a lot cheaper than their Axios and even the Sony Muc cables.Is is really that hard to find someone to solder on connectors on it? (Properly)


----------



## candlejack (Jun 30, 2020)

adrianm said:


> The hype was pretty much instant the moment i heard it,if anything it's kinda faded away.Plus i was really hoping not to like it,like the TT2.Doesn't hurt to audition again though.


Alright man, cool, looking forward to your followup impressions then!


adrianm said:


> Here's a fun question :
> Since i can't find an adapter or the 6.3mm sony kimber cable i was looking around and i notice Kimber Kable sold separately is actually quite a lot cheaper than their Axios and even the Sony Muc cables.Is is really that hard to find someone to solder on connectors on it? (Properly)


Contact whitigir, he has a PhD in soldering.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Contact whitigir, he has a PhD in soldering.


I'll tell him you sent me since i know you're bffs.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Alright man, cool, looking forward to your followup impressions then!


They will probably be holy crap this sounds amazing ,but over time they will mature like fine wine to "welp,looks like i'm going to be sleeping in my car for a while " to asking people on the Dave forum how you can connect it to 12v car socket


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> Here's a fun question :
> Since i can't find an adapter or the 6.3mm sony kimber cable i was looking around and i notice Kimber Kable sold separately is actually quite a lot cheaper than their Axios and even the Sony Muc cables.Is is really that hard to find someone to solder on connectors on it? (Properly)


Utube is probably your friend; it’s not rocket science.


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> Utube is probably your friend; it’s not rocket science.


Are you telling me companies are charging hundreds of dollars extra for something trivial? MADNESS
Who would've thought this sort of thing possible in the audiophile world?

On the other hand it's sort of hypocritical of me since  i just finished quoting a client 2000+ euros for literally changing 4 words on the screen,though those are my companies rates,i'm just an employee sadly.And it's not as easy as it looks.


----------



## bflat

adrianm said:


> Are you telling me companies are charging hundreds of dollars extra for something trivial? MADNESS
> Who would've thought this sort of thing possible in the audiophile world?
> 
> On the other hand it's sort of hypocritical of me since  i just finished quoting a client 2000+ euros for literally changing 4 words on the screen,though those are my companies rates,i'm just an employee sadly.And it's not as easy as it looks.



There are a few things to consider:

If the wires are litz enameled, you will not know how to make the solder stick unless you've done it before and likely need a solder pot to do it right.
How steady are your hands and how is your near eyesight? The solder pads on audio plugs are pretty small.
Do you know how to properly account for strain relief?
Do you have all the equipment and quality solder?
Do you have a multimeter to double check your wiring instead of using your amp for the literal smoke check?

Yeah, you have everything above, then it's cheap.


----------



## adrianm

bflat said:


> There are a few things to consider:
> 
> If the wires are litz enameled, you will not know how to make the solder stick unless you've done it before and likely need a solder pot to do it right.
> How steady are your hands and how is your near eyesight? The solder pads on audio plugs are pretty small.
> ...


So also not as easy to do as changing text on a screen, i guess the store that sells the wire would be qualified to to it,but i'll ask.


----------



## Gadget67

bflat said:


> There are a few things to consider:
> 
> If the wires are litz enameled, you will not know how to make the solder stick unless you've done it before and likely need a solder pot to do it right.
> How steady are your hands and how is your near eyesight? The solder pads on audio plugs are pretty small.
> ...


Look, I understand if it was THAT easy, we’d all be doing it.  If I’m just making one, I’ll spare myself the aggravation and just buy one.  Otherwise I’ll learn if the economics make it worthwhile.


----------



## bflat

Gadget67 said:


> Look, I understand if it was THAT easy, we’d all be doing it.  If I’m just making one, I’ll spare myself the aggravation and just buy one.  Otherwise I’ll learn if the economics make it worthwhile.



It's not just economics. There is a tremendous value to having a high degree of experience in making audio cables. I had most of the check marks in my list and have done numerous soldering projects around the house. My first headphone cable DIY worked great, but for only about 6 months before I lost sound in one channel because I didn't plan for strain relief from the amount of handling headphone cables take. When I tried my first 2.5mm plug DIY, I just LOL'd when I had my first look at how tiny the solder pads were and couldn't even come close to soldering using a magnifier class that my wife was holding. Also, how do make sure all 4 wires are soldered to the right pad when they are all colored the same? Yep, just shipped my cable and plug to a professional and paid $50 to get it done.


----------



## Gadget67

bflat said:


> It's not just economics. There is a tremendous value to having a high degree of experience in making audio cables. I had most of the check marks in my list and have done numerous soldering projects around the house. My first headphone cable DIY worked great, but for only about 6 months before I lost sound in one channel because I didn't plan for strain relief from the amount of handling headphone cables take. When I tried my first 2.5mm plug DIY, I just LOL'd when I had my first look at how tiny the solder pads were and couldn't even come close to soldering using a magnifier class that my wife was holding. Also, how do make sure all 4 wires are soldered to the right pad when they are all colored the same? Yep, just shipped my cable and plug to a professional and paid $50 to get it done.


Oh, believe me...I totally understand!  For what it’s worth I’m a reasonably accomplished woodworker/renovator with(quite literally) all the tools.  My last project took the better part of two months to make; it would have been cheaper to just contract out the piece but it’s my hobby and I (mostly) enjoyed doing it.  Any time I have a “one time”  job to do I’ll usually hire someone unless the urge moves me to do it myself.


----------



## JerryHead

Fsilva said:


> Because the RME is better....


Someone mentioned the soundstage on the RME wasn’t as wide as with the TA, no?


----------



## bflat

JerryHead said:


> Someone mentioned the soundstage on the RME wasn’t as wide as with the TA, no?



If you want clinical and technical, then yes RME is better. If you want organic and musical, then TA is better. All personal preference. I had the RME, but kept the TA.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Got some interesting feedback to share from Audioquest. I like their honesty. It concerned my TA. They seem to care for their customers:

“
Thank you for your e-mail.
When it comes to choosing cables, there's no one "right" cable - it's a case of going with the best cable you can. This is because cables cannot improve the signal they carry, they can only make improvements by introducing less distortion into the system and doing less harm to the signal. The less distortion, the better. The best cable therefore is the one that introduces the least distortion and affects the signal as little as possible. This is true for all cables. The further up the line you go, the better it gets.

With your headphone amp, Cinnamon or Carbon USB-A-B will be a great starting point. As for the length, technically, shorter is always better. But the difference in sound quality between 0.75M and 1.5M might not be enough to have a bit more freedom to move the components.”


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> Got some interesting feedback to share from Audioquest. I like their honesty. It concerned my TA. They seem to care for their customers:
> 
> “
> Thank you for your e-mail.
> ...


_Honesty_ would've been them showing the differences in _distortion_ between the different cables in their catalogue and associated bit failure rates. So that you can see how much better it gets the higher you go up the line.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> _Honesty_ would've been them showing the differences in _distortion_ between the different cables in their catalogue and associated bit failure rates. So that you can see how much better it gets the higher you go up the line.


Something like this :

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/do-usb-audio-cables-make-a-difference.1887/


----------



## Gamerlingual

Just sharing info. Not being cynical. Take it as you wish. Cheers


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Something like this :
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/do-usb-audio-cables-make-a-difference.1887/


No, not quite. That measures the output of a DAC when fed by different USB cables, it doesn't measure the output of the cable itself, but you knew that already.


----------



## Umwelt

candlejack said:


> _Honesty_ would've been them showing the differences in _distortion_ between the different cables in their catalogue and associated bit failure rates. So that you can see how much better it gets the higher you go up the line.



Yeah that was really just a nice way of them saying "You don't need our expensive cables at all, but you're still welcome to buy them"

BTW, for the USB paranoid, apparently these Supra cables from Sweden are very good, for some people they "sound better" than the carbon ones, are reasonably priced compared to the dumb stuff, and the maker actually posts specs details on them, unlike everyone else:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...supra+usb+.TRS0&_nkw=supra+usb+cable&_sacat=0


----------



## candlejack

Gamerlingual said:


> Just sharing info. Not being cynical. Take it as you wish. Cheers


You provided an _opinion_ that AQ were being honest and cared for their customers.

I personally didn't find much _info_ in their email, although it's nice to see what the PR departments of different companies choose to tell their (potential) customers.


----------



## adrianm

I personally am over this discussion, barely have time to listen to the TA anymore, i'm starting to reconsider even the Dave under these circumstances.I'd maybe keep the TA if that broken unbalanced input wasn't annoying me so much .Even though i don't use it at all.Feels like 1.2k is a lot for a (slightly) defective TA.Maybe with a partial refund i'd consider keeping it,but i'm not sure if they do that with warehouse deals.


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> I personally am over this discussion, barely have time to listen to the TA anymore, i'm starting to reconsider even the Dave under these circumstances.I'd maybe keep the TA if that broken unbalanced input wasn't annoying me so much .Even though i don't use it at all.Feels like 1.2k is a lot for a (slightly) defective TA.Maybe with a partial refund i'd consider keeping it,but i'm not sure if they do that with warehouse deals.


They offered me 25% for some missing accessories, so they definitely offer discounts for warehouse deals, but this is a case of defective product, so it might be different. Doesn't hurt to shoot them an email. Regardless, if you plan to keep the TA, you should have it checked out by Sony. The faulty output might be sign of a bigger issue


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> They offered me 25% for some missing accessories, so they definitely offer discounts for warehouse deals, but this is a case of defective product, so it might be different. Doesn't hurt to shoot them an email. Regardless, if you plan to keep the TA, you should have it checked out by Sony. The faulty output might be sign of a bigger issue


The unbalanced 3.5 seems to be the only one affected though.Wow,amazon customer service replied instantly.I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## adrianm

And you can tell it's a hardware issue since sound bounces from left to center to  right channel when pushing the jack all the day in


----------



## Umwelt

If after all those Dave posts you just end up keeping the TA, I swear to God...! 
just kidding man, hope Amazon offers you a good compromise.


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> If after all those Dave posts you just end up keeping the TA, I swear to God...!
> just kidding man, hope Amazon offers you a good compromise.


For a good price i'd just keep it as a spare and get the Dave as well, or gift it .They offered me a 150 pound discount and 1 year warranty on them, i'm still not sold on..not returning it for a full refund.


----------



## adrianm

Yeah took their deal and i can still return it until the end of the month if i decide to,but the price has come down to 1070 euros and i only use the balanced output anyway so...might as well keep it even if i do get the Dave? Getting even harder to justify the price delta now though.Especially since the memory's faded,definitely going to have to a/b them again


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> They offered me 25% for some missing accessories, so they definitely offer discounts for warehouse deal


Was this on the TA?


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> Was this on the TA?


No, the MDR-Z1R.

Stop obsessing over getting the best deal. Keep it if you like it, sent it back if you don't! Discounts should not play a part at this point. Even 100 Euro is too much to pay for it if you don't use it (unless you're looking to make some money in the sales forum).


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> No, the MDR-Z1R.
> 
> Stop obsessing over getting the best deal. Keep it if you like it, sent it back if you don't! Discounts should not play a part at this point. Even 100 Euro is too much to pay for it if you don't use it (unless you're looking to make some money in the sales forum).





candlejack said:


> No, the MDR-Z1R.
> 
> Stop obsessing over getting the best deal. Keep it if you like it, sent it back if you don't! Discounts should not play a part at this point. Even 100 Euro is too much to pay for it if you don't use it (unless you're looking to make some money in the sales forum).


The search for efficiency is hard coded unfortunately  .
I do use the TA,and i never did NOT like it,even when compared to the more expensive Hugo TT2. I just liked the Dave way more than either of them,it was clearly in a different class.It's hard not to consider a 600% price delta a tough pill to swallow.And i was all for it, but last week i didn't have the time/energy/mood to listen to any music at all since i was too tired and it got me thinking if i wouldn't feel bad about spending all that extra cash and..not using it either.If that makes sense.I get bored with stuff pretty easily.I guess wait and see and audition again in a week or 2.Work is crazy right now so no time to even think about this stuff.
   Also you were wrong btw, i'm not hyping it up as time passes,on the contrary, the memory is fading and i'm going back to the default "how can something sound that much better than the TA " thoughts i had before.Granted this was after a few days of absolutely no music,the Z1r's had this effect with the Mojo as well 
  If i do eventually get Dave i'd just gift the TA to my brother,that's worth more to me than the money i'd get for it.So it kinda makes sense to me just keeping it regardless.


----------



## adrianm

Meanwhile, any good headphone stand recommendations for the Z1R?


----------



## candlejack

adrianm said:


> If i do eventually get Dave i'd just gift the TA to my brother,that's worth more to me than the money i'd get for it.So it kinda makes sense to me just keeping it regardless.


Your brother who only has 3.5 mm SE cables, right? 


adrianm said:


> Meanwhile, any good headphone stand recommendations for the Z1R?


Yes, it's called: _your head_.


----------



## adrianm

candlejack said:


> Your brother who only has 3.5 mm SE cables, right?


You can just use a 3.5 to 6.3 adapter and problem solved .Tested the 6.3 jack extensively and it's fine


----------



## JerryHead (Jul 2, 2020)

It didn't occur to me to test all the outputs.  I'll have to get around to that.  For anyone interested, I found a good solution for an extension cable for the TA.  If you have a 4.4 end to your cable, here's what you could do:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VKMJ95V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YWJ47XC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I realize they sold out of the first, but they'll probably be back in stock before too long.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

candlejack said:


> Your brother who only has 3.5 mm SE cables, right?


🤣


> Yes, it's called: _your head_.


🤣

Ow, my stomach hurts


----------



## Umwelt

JerryHead said:


> It didn't occur to me to test all the outputs.  I'll have to get around to that.  For anyone interested, I found a good solution for an extension cable for the TA.  If you have a 4.4 end to your cable, here's what you could do:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VKMJ95V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> ...



Have you gotten the Delock cable you ordered yet? I got mine last week and it does the job, sound seems to be passed along unaffected, but the female end was extremely tight, really needed to jam the male plug with a lot of force (that's what I wish she said).
Since I switch between headphones frequently it's a big issue that would make me hesitant to recommend it, unless you rarely need to unplug the headphones from the extension end. It does seem to be loosening a bit the more I use it though. On the other hand, the male end of the extension cable doesn't lock nicely into the TA's input, not an issue but it reveals that the measurements on both ends are slightly off.


----------



## JerryHead

Umwelt said:


> Have you gotten the Delock cable you ordered yet? I got mine last week and it does the job, sound seems to be passed along unaffected, but the female end was extremely tight, really needed to jam the male plug with a lot of force (that's what I wish she said).
> Since I switch between headphones frequently it's a big issue that would make me hesitant to recommend it, unless you rarely need to unplug the headphones from the extension end. It does seem to be loosening a bit the more I use it though. On the other hand, the male end of the extension cable doesn't lock nicely into the TA's input, not an issue but it reveals that the measurements on both ends are slightly off.


Thanks, good to know.  I’m surprised about the measurements being off, I didn’t anticipate that.  And I thought Germans were known for their precision. Yes, I would think over time with more use, both ends would fit better.  I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not though. I wouldn’t want to bend anything in the 4.4 output jack of the TA, or the male plug end of my headphone cable for that matter.  I’d still like to give it a try.  I cancelled my Amazon (U.S.) order because it became “unavailable”.  But reordered it on the Amazon UK site and it’s still waiting to ship after 3 days.  Which did you get it from?


----------



## JerryHead (Jul 2, 2020)

Just realized that I have this old Denon 2910 DVD-A/SACD player lying around.  Any reason I can’t plug it into the TA and use it?  If so, would I be better off connecting it with (2 channel) analog cables, or an optical cable?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jul 2, 2020)

.


----------



## Gamerlingual

JerryHead said:


> Just realized that I have this old Denon 2910 DVD-A/SACD player lying around.  Any reason I can’t plug it into the TA and use it?  If so, would I be better off connecting it with (2 channel) analog cables, or an optical cable?


Try both. It's specialty is flexibility as far as I'm concerned. Enjoy!


----------



## JerryHead

Gamerlingual said:


> Try both. It's specialty is flexibility as far as I'm concerned. Enjoy!


Great, thanks, Jeez, guess I should cancel the listings of those three SACDs I’d posted on eBay.  I could end up totally rediscovering them with the TA!


----------



## Umwelt

JerryHead said:


> I cancelled my Amazon (U.S.) order because it became “unavailable”. But reordered it on the Amazon UK site and it’s still waiting to ship after 3 days. Which did you get it from?



I got it from Amazon US, though it was the 2m one instead of the 3m you ordered. I did see that they got another 2m one in stock afterward.
Hopefully the one you get doesn't have the tightness issue, maybe it's just a quality control issue and not a general problem on all of them.



JerryHead said:


> Great, thanks, Jeez, guess I should cancel the listings of those three SACDs I’d posted on eBay. I could end up totally rediscovering them with the TA!



Or you can just rip disc images off them and play them from your computer and still sell the physical discs


----------



## Gamerlingual

JerryHead said:


> Great, thanks, Jeez, guess I should cancel the listings of those three SACDs I’d posted on eBay.  I could end up totally rediscovering them with the TA!


Oh, hope my message came off as positive. Meant no harm, as I really am a TA enthusiast and love all the customization it offers.


----------



## JerryHead (Jul 2, 2020)

Gamerlingual said:


> Oh, hope my message came off as positive. Meant no harm, as I really am a TA enthusiast and love all the customization it offers.


No, I didn’t detect anything negative at all.  Not quite sure what you mean by that actually.


----------



## JerryHead

Umwelt said:


> Have you gotten the Delock cable you ordered yet? I got mine last week and it does the job, sound seems to be passed along unaffected, but the female end was extremely tight, really needed to jam the male plug with a lot of force (that's what I wish she said).
> Since I switch between headphones frequently it's a big issue that would make me hesitant to recommend it, unless you rarely need to unplug the headphones from the extension end. It does seem to be loosening a bit the more I use it though. On the other hand, the male end of the extension cable doesn't lock nicely into the TA's input, not an issue but it reveals that the measurements on both ends are slightly off.


Would you mind providing the link for that 2 m Delock cable?  I can’t find it now on Amazon.


----------



## Umwelt

JerryHead said:


> Would you mind providing the link for that 2 m Delock cable? I can’t find it now on Amazon.



Here's the link, though now it shows as unavailable unfortunately: https://www.amazon.com/Delock-Extension-Cable-Female-Black/dp/B07ZP1JFP3/


----------



## JerryHead

Thanks.  And actually it was the 1 meter version I’d ordered from Amazon UK, and it still says it’s in stock so I’m just waiting for it to ship.


----------



## darmccombs

I'm kinda curious...  What is the best sounding headphone or IEM that you've heard, when using the TA by itself (no additional amp).  I am guessing a lot of folks will mention the IER-Z1R, and the MDR-Z1R.  Have you heard anything better than these with the TA?


----------



## Damz87

darmccombs said:


> I'm kinda curious...  What is the best sounding headphone or IEM that you've heard, when using the TA by itself (no additional amp).  I am guessing a lot of folks will mention the IER-Z1R, and the MDR-Z1R.  Have you heard anything better than these with the TA?



For me its the QDC Anole VX. There's something really special about the TA's smooth sound signature and the VX's high resolution that works so well. The VX's treble can sound quite harsh and a bit plasticky on other sources. Also the VX hasn't got the widest soundstage, but the TA manages to fix these issues.


----------



## raymogi

Been burning in my TA for almost 24 hours now while still listening to music with it along the way.

Currently using my A18t + Code 51 on it. TA itself is upgraded with Kimber PK14 Ascent power cable and Kimber USB CU.

DSD Remastering is on the whole time. Everything else off.

I have to say I love how this thing sounds! I guess this will stay in my home office permanently. I can move my DMP to the bedroom now


----------



## Gamerlingual

darmccombs said:


> I'm kinda curious...  What is the best sounding headphone or IEM that you've heard, when using the TA by itself (no additional amp).  I am guessing a lot of folks will mention the IER-Z1R, and the MDR-Z1R.  Have you heard anything better than these with the TA?


Focal Clear with the 4 pin connector


----------



## darmccombs

Damz87 said:


> For me its the QDC Anole VX. There's something really special about the TA's smooth sound signature and the VX's high resolution that works so well. The VX's treble can sound quite harsh and a bit plasticky on other sources. Also the VX hasn't got the widest soundstage, but the TA manages to fix these issues.





Gamerlingual said:


> Focal Clear with the 4 pin connector


Thanks for the feedback regarding the best sounding headphones you've heard with the TA.

Unexpectedly, I made a trade for a set of ZMF Verite Closed headphones.  Has anyone heard these with the TA?


----------



## raymogi

Spent a lot of time yesterday with the MDR (with Axios Cu) and the TA. I might be imagining things here, but I genuinely think the MDR sounds INCREDIBLE with TA. 

I tried the MDR a lot with DMP in the past but I don't find it engaging which is why my MDR has been hanging in the stand for a while now. I like my Diana Phi with DMP. That's a match made in heaven for sure.

The TA has around 50 hours of playtime by now and I hope it'll get even better in the future.


----------



## zephyrstar

Umwelt said:


> Here's the link, though now it shows as unavailable unfortunately: https://www.amazon.com/Delock-Extension-Cable-Female-Black/dp/B07ZP1JFP3/


I just got the 1m version of it. Sadly I am underwhelmed. The female jack is very tight and yet somehow doesn't make a consistent connection. Twisting it just a bit with a male plug inside it will go from one channel working, to both, to none. I have to futz with spinning it around to get both channels working. 

Sigh, it was my last hope before getting a custom one made for a lot more $$$.


----------



## Rob49

Has anyone used a Hugo M Scaler with the TA & if so what are your thoughts ? I'm assuming you can ??


----------



## Redcarmoose

darmccombs said:


> I'm kinda curious...  What is the best sounding headphone or IEM that you've heard, when using the TA by itself (no additional amp).  I am guessing a lot of folks will mention the IER-Z1R, and the MDR-Z1R.  Have you heard anything better than these with the TA?



Just different not better.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jul 5, 2020)

raymogi said:


> Spent a lot of time yesterday with the MDR (with Axios Cu) and the TA. I might be imagining things here, but I genuinely think the MDR sounds INCREDIBLE with TA.
> 
> I tried the MDR a lot with DMP in the past but I don't find it engaging which is why my MDR has been hanging in the stand for a while now. I like my Diana Phi with DMP. That's a match made in heaven for sure.
> 
> The TA has around 50 hours of playtime by now and I hope it'll get even better in the future.



The TA may smooth out after 200 hours. At least that’s what I thought? I just ran it for a week straight. Bass gets agility and definition, over-all quality increase? IMO


----------



## Gamerlingual

JerryHead said:


> No, I didn’t detect anything negative at all.  Not quite sure what you mean by that actually.


Oh to try both cable connections and let us know the results if there are any differences noted


----------



## Umwelt

zephyrstar said:


> I just got the 1m version of it. Sadly I am underwhelmed. The female jack is very tight and yet somehow doesn't make a consistent connection. Twisting it just a bit with a male plug inside it will go from one channel working, to both, to none. I have to futz with spinning it around to get both channels working.



That sucks, the one I got has the tightness problem as well but the connection always works and I've switched a lot in between MDR and IER. This definitely confirms they have quality control issues.

If you're okay having two extension cables instead of just one, using a 4.4mm female to two-3.5mm male Y splitter works great combined with two regular 3.5mm extension cables. The whole thing can be had for less than $40.


----------



## bflat

Rob49 said:


> Has anyone used a Hugo M Scaler with the TA & if so what are your thoughts ? I'm assuming you can ??



You could, but M Scaler only works in full upsampling mode on Chord DACs which is 2 x 384 kHz. All other DACs only have one coax input and only goes to 192 kHz so you only get 1/4 of the benefit.  Technically it works but really just designed for Chord DACs.


----------



## Rob49

bflat said:


> You could, but M Scaler only works in full upsampling mode on Chord DACs which is 2 x 384 kHz. All other DACs only have one coax input and only goes to 192 kHz so you only get 1/4 of the benefit.  Technically it works but really just designed for Chord DACs.



Thanks for that. I'd actually read that on a review, since posting.


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> Has anyone used a Hugo M Scaler with the TA & if so what are your thoughts ? I'm assuming you can ??


It kind of defeats the purpopse since the TA also does 8x upsampling.Having listened to the M-scaler with the TT2 vs the Dave (without m-scaler) it did make a difference vs stand alone TT2,but it kinda showed me that upsampling is part of the equation.Standalone Dave sounded much better,and a lot more analogue.Haven't listened to HMS Dave for the sake of my sanity,and later my wallet.But i probably will next week when i go do another audition.


----------



## JMR77

I own the TA, Hugo2 and the MScaler. 

For me it was hard to notice a sound improvement (if any) using the MScaler with the TA. 

As it was already mentioned you just take advantage of a 25% of what the MScaler is capable of, plus the TA also makes its own processing. This is not a combination that makes sense in my opinion, very cost-ineffective.

However using the MScaler at 100% with the Hugo2 produces a notable effect, this combination makes sense to me.


----------



## adrianm

JMR77 said:


> I own the TA, Hugo2 and the MScaler.
> 
> For me it was hard to notice a sound improvement (if any) using the MScaler with the TA.
> 
> ...


Isn't HMS+ hugo 2 cost ineffective as well vs standalone TT2?


----------



## Rob49

JMR77 said:


> I own the TA, Hugo2 and the MScaler.
> 
> For me it was hard to notice a sound improvement (if any) using the MScaler with the TA.
> 
> ...



Yes, i think i was definitely having an illogical moment, for sure ! I think it's spending weeks / months trying to decide my next audio purchase & just trying to find something i'd be happy with ?? ( Can't audition anything, without the hassle of sending back. )


----------



## JMR77

Well, YMMV and all that and I don't want to derail the thread, but in short: I think the MScaler + Hugo2 combo could be preferable, at least sound wise . I paid the same or less for this combo (new) than what a new TT2 costs, the sound is supposed to be better with the combo (you get the million taps) than with the TT2 (although I did not make an A/B test) and the Hugo2 is much more transportable. The TT2 has a better amp section though, so depends on what you need.

I already owned the Hugo2 and other desktop DacAmps, so I preferred to seek an upgrade via an MScaler than via a TT2 (which did not sound like a clear improvement to a Hugo2 when I tested it), also I wanted to test the MScaler with my other DacAmps, and the conclusion is that it may not make much sense  for using it with non-Chord Dacs such as the TA. I'm now considering the TT2 to keep the Hugo 2 portable and get a few more inches of sound improvement.


----------



## adrianm

JMR77 said:


> Well, YMMV and all that and I don't want to derail the thread, but in short: I think the MScaler + Hugo2 combo could be preferable, at least sound wise . I paid the same or less for this combo (new) than what a new TT2 costs, the sound is supposed to be better with the combo (you get the million taps) than with the TT2 (although I did not make an A/B test) and the Hugo2 is much more transportable. The TT2 has a better amp section though, so depends on what you need.
> 
> I already owned the Hugo2 and other desktop DacAmps, so I preferred to seek an upgrade via an MScaler than via a TT2 (which did not sound like a clear improvement to a Hugo2 when I tested it), also I wanted to test the MScaler with my other DacAmps, and the conclusion is that it may not make much sense  for using it with non-Chord Dacs such as the TA. I'm now considering the TT2 to keep the Hugo 2 portable and get a few more inches of sound improvement.





Rob49 said:


> Yes, i think i was definitely having an illogical moment, for sure ! I think it's spending weeks / months trying to decide my next audio purchase & just trying to find something i'd be happy with ?? ( Can't audition anything, without the hassle of sending back. )


I know i sound like a broken record here but i honestly think the Dave is a good deal,even at it's crazy price,considering the 30% discount a lot of dealers have on it at the moment.Comparing the TA,TT2 with and without Mscaler the differences were mostly nitpicking,Dave was in a class of it's own.I'd rather just skip the losses from buying and selling gear and return my TA to Amazon and save up for a bit and go straight for the Dave (And and M-scaler later).



Disclaimer : Chord offers me a free Dave for each Dave you guys purchase.


----------



## Senndo

adrianm said:


> I know i sound like a broken record here but i honestly think the Dave is a good deal,even at it's crazy price,considering the 30% discount a lot of dealers have on it at the moment.Comparing the TA,TT2 with and without Mscaler the differences were mostly nitpicking,Dave was in a class of it's own.I'd rather just skip the losses from buying and selling gear and return my TA to Amazon and save up for a bit and go straight for the Dave (And and M-scaler later).
> 
> 
> 
> Disclaimer : Chord offers me a free Dave for each Dave you guys purchase.



What, specifically, does the DAVE do better than the TA, do you think? I have to say, I enjoy the TA's sound just as much myself. In fact, I've been thinking of selling my current $15K streaming DAC and getting a TA instead!


----------



## JMR77

Lol, we all have these moments in this crazy hobby. I think the best way to improve TA's sound would be by upgrading your source (if still possible, depending on what you use now), for instance (and sadly for my wallet) I found that a HAP-Z1EA or an Aries G1 would be notably better than an Ipad for streaming.


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> Disclaimer : Chord offers me a free Dave for each Dave you guys purchase.



Don't tell anyone, but i could buy 2 Dave's.....do you want one ! ??



JMR77 said:


> Lol, we all have these moments in this crazy hobby. I think the best way to improve TA's sound would be by upgrading your source (if still possible, depending on what you use now), for instance (and sadly for my wallet) I found that a HAP-Z1EA or an Aries G1 would be notably better than an Ipad for streaming.



Many moments for moi ! I'm just not always enjoying my TA / MDR-Z1R combo, as much as i use to, originally....i've thought of so many audio products to buy & can't make a decision ?? Besides my Walkman's, my main source with my TA is my Sony HAP-S1....i can't fault speaker listening with the TA.


----------



## adrianm (Jul 5, 2020)

JMR77 said:


> Lol, we all have these moments in this crazy hobby. I think the best way to improve TA's sound would be by upgrading your source (if still possible, depending on what you use now), for instance (and sadly for my wallet) I found that a HAP-Z1EA or an Aries G1 would be notably better than an Ipad for streaming.


While i was there i also a/b'd both the Dave and the TA from a 24k Naim and the Node2I using coax.The difference was  more noticeable on the TA than on the Dave,but it was again in the nitpicking teritory.With a Dave i could live with my pc as a source just for the added convenience.Next time i go i'll a/b them using a macbook and try to take the power regenerators out of the equation as well.
  Don't really think the sources changes that much on well designed dacs.


----------



## adrianm

Senndo said:


> What, specifically, does the DAVE do better than the TA, do you think? I have to say, I enjoy the TA's sound just as much myself. In fact, I've been thinking of selling my current $15K streaming DAC and getting a TA instead!


Dcs Bartok?


----------



## adrianm

Senndo said:


> What, specifically, does the DAVE do better than the TA, do you think? I have to say, I enjoy the TA's sound just as much myself.


I think instrument layering and separation were a lot better (than the TA and TT2) ,it was a lot easier to follow individual instruments in busy songs,voices also sounded better,there was more detail/resolution than the others and it overall sounded more...natural /analog for a lack of better description.The others sounded like really good reproductions.I still like my TA a lot,especially vs the TT2 + HMS.It also sounded better over there than it does at home (better mains filtering i guess?) .Out of the Naim,sounded worse than my pc out of the node2i.
   Not saying it's worth the price delta,but if you're itching for an upgrade and you want better ,not just "different", " arguably better " Dave is the only option i see for a more down to earth price (ironic,i know).
   Then again it was my first time hearing it, i'll do a longer audition next week and see if my impressions change past the initial "shock".Either way it makes more sense to me than to endlessly keep upgrading sources,cables,etc.I just wanna be done with the madness , the Z1R + Dave ,M-scaler later and upgrade the Z1R when the gods bestow us with something (Closed back) that blows if out of the water.


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> Don't tell anyone, but i could buy 2 Dave's.....do you want one ! ??


Only if you engrave it "To my Sugar Baby "


----------



## Senndo

adrianm said:


> Dcs Bartok?



780D (Simaudio)


----------



## adrianm

Senndo said:


> 780D (Simaudio)


Haven't heard of that one up untill now.What are you using as a headphone amp/headphones with it?


----------



## Senndo

adrianm said:


> Haven't heard of that one up untill now.What are you using as a headphone amp/headphones with it?



sorry, yes: 430HA amp and LCD4/HD800S. Previously Abyss 1266 Phi TC and Susvara but got rid of both.


----------



## adrianm

S


Senndo said:


> sorry, yes: 430HA amp and LCD4/HD800S. Previously Abyss 1266 Phi TC and Susvara but got rid of both.


So you think the Lcd4 for example sounds better on the TA than your Simaudio combo?


----------



## Senndo

adrianm said:


> S
> 
> So you think the Lcd4 for example sounds better on the TA than your Simaudio combo?



Switching out the DAC would be just as good, I think. A little more testing left to do. The amp section of the TA is a no go.


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> Only if you engrave it "To my Sugar Baby "



I don't think i'll go quite that far !


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> I don't think i'll go quite that far !


Fine,as long as it's black.


----------



## JerryHead

zephyrstar said:


> I just got the 1m version of it. Sadly I am underwhelmed. The female jack is very tight and yet somehow doesn't make a consistent connection. Twisting it just a bit with a male plug inside it will go from one channel working, to both, to none. I have to futz with spinning it around to get both channels working.
> 
> Sigh, it was my last hope before getting a custom one made for a lot more $$$.


Don't forget this option.  This is what I'm using now and they're great.  There are two items here.  If the first is out of stock, you can get other places as well:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VKMJ95V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YWJ47XC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## zephyrstar

JerryHead said:


> Don't forget this option.  This is what I'm using now and they're great.  There are two items here.  If the first is out of stock, you can get other places as well:
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VKMJ95V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> ...


I thought about it but its two connections instead of one, trying to keep the number of adapters minimal. Have you ever seen a good XLR to 4.4 female that is 1-3 meters long?


----------



## JerryHead

zephyrstar said:


> I thought about it but its two connections instead of one, trying to keep the number of adapters minimal. Have you ever seen a good XLR to 4.4 female that is 1-3 meters long?


No, but for the same reason as you pointed out, lemme know if you do find one as I'd be interested in one as well..


----------



## JerryHead

I was sitting back in my chair in my living room, listening to my TA, and thinking, 'Damn, this sounds so f-king good, I gotta have one for when I lay down in bed, before I fall asleep.  I can't just settle for my (well-powered) DAP, which doesn't give me the bass, soundstage, separation, holographics, and air between instruments, that the TA does..  Damn, I deserve to be hearing sound like that every chance I get, right?  Ha!  Almost talked myself into getting a second one.  I saw that two used TAs were recently sold on eBay through an estate auction.  I can see why the guy who originally owned them had two!!


----------



## zephyrstar

JerryHead said:


> I was sitting back in my chair in my living room, listening to my TA, and thinking, 'Damn, this sounds so f-king good, I gotta have one for when I lay down in bed, before I fall asleep.  I can't just settle for my (well-powered) DAP, which doesn't give me the bass, soundstage, separation, holographics, and air between instruments, that the TA does..  Damn, I deserve to be hearing sound like that every chance I get, right?  Ha!  Almost talked myself into getting a second one.  I saw that two used TAs were recently sold on eBay through an estate auction.  I can see why the guy who originally owned them had two!!


Hah, that's where I have mine, on my nightstand! I listen to it every night with some IEMs to not wake the wife.

Regarding the cable extension, will do. I know places like Moon, Plusound etc will make one but it would be like $200 for 1 meter which is more than I want to pay but I may have to suck it up. I have tried soldering a 4.4 male plug a few times but with an injured hand and aging eyes it didn't go so well


----------



## JerryHead

zephyrstar said:


> Hah, that's where I have mine, on my nightstand! I listen to it every night with some IEMs to not wake the wife.
> 
> Regarding the cable extension, will do. I know places like Moon, Plusound etc will make one but it would be like $200 for 1 meter which is more than I want to pay but I may have to suck it up. I have tried soldering a 4.4 male plug a few times but with an injured hand and aging eyes it didn't go so well


the combination of the two that I included links for doesn't effect the SQ.  I compared with and without, and could barely hear a difference, if any.


----------



## zephyrstar

In case anyone is wondering, the new 64Audio Nio sounds fantastic with the TA. Super smooth and clean. IMHO it sounds similar to the IER-Z1R to my ear.


----------



## Damz87

JerryHead said:


> I was sitting back in my chair in my living room, listening to my TA, and thinking, 'Damn, this sounds so f-king good, I gotta have one for when I lay down in bed, before I fall asleep.  I can't just settle for my (well-powered) DAP, which doesn't give me the bass, soundstage, separation, holographics, and air between instruments, that the TA does..  Damn, I deserve to be hearing sound like that every chance I get, right?  Ha!  Almost talked myself into getting a second one.  I saw that two used TAs were recently sold on eBay through an estate auction.  I can see why the guy who originally owned them had two!!



Or, get a DMP-Z1 and you can move it anywhere you like!


----------



## Gamerlingual

Damz87 said:


> Or, get a DMP-Z1 and you can move it anywhere you like!


Not for its asking price. Nah


----------



## Damz87

Gamerlingual said:


> Not for its asking price. Nah



I was joking. Maybe last year when it was cheaper but definitely not at today’s prices


----------



## Gamerlingual

Damz87 said:


> I was joking. Maybe last year when it was cheaper but definitely not at today’s prices


In hindsight, it is perfect for his purpose. It’s really nice, but I felt the TA offered more sound quality for the money. I was surprised that it sounded better than the DMP-Z1. My 1Z and 1A are good for use in bed


----------



## Damz87

Gamerlingual said:


> In hindsight, it is perfect for his purpose. It’s really nice, but I felt the TA offered more sound quality for the money. I was surprised that it sounded better than the DMP-Z1. My 1Z and 1A are good for use in bed



The TA doesn’t sound “better” than the DMP-Z1 in my opinion, but it is the better price to performance device out of the two.


----------



## Rob49

Gamerlingual said:


> In hindsight, it is perfect for his purpose. It’s really nice, but I felt the TA offered more sound quality for the money. I was surprised that it sounded better than the DMP-Z1.



That's probably a first ! ?? 99.9 % of the feedback i've read is that nothing sounds like the DMP-Z1 ?


----------



## Whitigir (Jul 7, 2020)

I personally do not think TA has better sound performances than DMP.  It is exactly what @Damz87 said, the TA is better considering price performances ratio, but the DMP is definitely better than TA-ZH1ES.

I think many people has not been taking DMP too seriously when they think that it is only a DAP, but in reality it isn’t.  It is a “dedicated systems of an All in One”.  It has a dedicatedly build DAC, a Separated Amp, a luxurious Volume pot, with each unit has different batteries by it own, and it can even run off from a dedicated External Power Supply.  It is totally comparable to a high end desktop that consists of “Digital Transport + Amplifier + interconnect cables”

In the case of TA-ZH1ES, the DMP would be the combination of : Walkman WM1Z + TA-ZH1ES + Docking system + Upgraded USB cables, but even so, the DMP is still far ahead of this little system in engineering.  _Why ? Because it is, for example, it has 5 Super Capacitors, with each one dedicated toward a Signal Path of L+ and L-, R+ and R-, and DAC processing unit._

The DMP was thought of, engineered, and built to be better than many.  It consists of many different cumulative technologies that existed from Sony present team.  It has DAC own chassis with CNC milled Copper + gold plated plate, multiple ground points between chassis and Circuit boards, And even these ground points were carefully measured and listened to observe which and how many can be made too perform.   Too many of them will weaken the dynamic and fluidity delivery but gains better silences in the background, or too little would results in a noisy and muddy performances delivery.

The proof is in it performances, I was originally totally against Sony when they released DMP.  It seems they are following the Price gouging trend from others, but it isn’t.  My mind changed after I met up with SatoSan and then listened to DMP VS Chord DAVE.  This was back when Chord Dave did not have M-Scaler.

*With all that said, different strokes for different folks, we all have different preferences and experiences*.  What sounds better IMO isn’t necessary better for your own unique needs.  Give it a try, and decide for yourself.  Sony team is proud of the DMP, and to others, they simply only follow and try to produce something within this category.....yet, no one would attemp to do what Sony did, even AK

The DMP is a Statement piece from Sony, also is a Dare to challenge to other competitions.  It is a marvelous piece of engineering through and through, from each components being used, to each Little things that are dedicatedly made into the system itself, such as Plenty of ground plane that also serve the cooling purposes, plenty of spaces so each IC chips are not in close proximity to one another that can absorb the radiated interferences from each other, yet minimizing the foot prints.  Everything else is in perfect symmetrical design to avoid any phases abnormally....etc...then it also has many of the Film capacitors all around, which have to be customized and special ordered from someone whose reputation is revered enough to pull it...such as Sony.  The list goes on and on

just my 2 cents


----------



## Gamerlingual

To each their own. That’s what my ears felt after trying it for over an hour and people will disagree. I’m ok with that


----------



## Whitigir

Gamerlingual said:


> To each their own. That’s what my ears felt after trying it for over an hour and people will disagree. I’m ok with that


I agree, because it is different strokes for different folks here.  You are not the only one who dislike the DMP, and taking, holding other Sony products to be superiors.  Regardless of how good anything could have been built, the word “satisfactory“ is priceless for a reason, and that I am happy for you as long as you are “satisfied“, please do not let anything or anyone to sway you away form it.  We are all here to enjoy the music, and so Enjoy the music !!!


----------



## Gamerlingual

Whitigir said:


> I agree, because it is different strokes for different folks here.  You are not the only one who dislike the DMP, and taking, holding other Sony products to be superiors.  Regardless of how good anything could have been built, the word “satisfactory“ is priceless for a reason, and that I am happy for you as long as you are “satisfied“, please do not let anything or anyone to sway you away form it.  We are all here to enjoy the music, and so Enjoy the music !!!


Oh, I like the DMP-Z1 for what it is. I will never disregard it for the wonderful piece of technology it is. Seeing your youtube review was actually the reason my interest piqued. I’m lucky I could sample one in Yodobashi camera as well as the TA


----------



## adrianm

Whitigir said:


> I personally do not think TA has better sound performances than DMP.  It is exactly what @Damz87 said, the TA is better considering price performances ratio, but the DMP is definitely better than TA-ZH1ES.
> 
> I think many people has not been taking DMP too seriously when they think that it is only a DAP, but in reality it isn’t.  It is a “dedicated systems of an All in One”.  It has a dedicatedly build DAC, a Separated Amp, a luxurious Volume pot, with each unit has different batteries by it own, and it can even run off from a dedicated External Power Supply.  It is totally comparable to a high end desktop that consists of “Digital Transport + Amplifier + interconnect cables”
> 
> ...


Out of curiosity how did you find the comparison with the Dave? And what did you listen with?


----------



## Whitigir

adrianm said:


> Out of curiosity how did you find the comparison with the Dave? And what did you listen with?


I did it with HD800S and the favor was into DMP Z1, I Personally prefer the naturalness of liquidity from DMP rather than the DAVE With a little grainy up top


----------



## adrianm

Whitigir said:


> I did it with HD800S and the favor was into DMP Z1, I Personally prefer the naturalness of liquidity from DMP rather than the DAVE With a little grainy up top


   Well i'll take that comparison with a chunk of salt since you tend to get overly excited about most new gear you get.You're actually one of the reasons i got the Z1R and the TA but you seem to be over them both.Having listened to Dave ,but not the DMP-Z1, i kinda doubt i since  I struggle to find any real innovation with the Z1, it's just off the shelf stuff with kimber internal wiring (which is kind of a sad thing to brag about ,says a lot about the rest of the "innovation" if this is so noteworthy) the only real issue tackled seems to be (trans)portability.Which you might care about or not.
     Seeing how the commercials all feature mansions and listening by the pool seems like the product category is "Throwaway electronics for Asian Baby boomers" .Since they're the only baby boomers around.(and i have nothing against baby boomers,some of my best friends are baby boomers  ).+ The gold knob seems like a clear play for the Asian markets.I'm just glad my Z1R's don't have gold cups. Feels like if it was (And could easily be ) less than half the price it might be less of a tough pill to swallow for "lugging around the house " .


----------



## bflat

Here is an interesting situation with my brand new MacBook Pro 16. I mention this here because of some debate as to cables and power conditioners for the TA.

My house is located close to an AM radio relay and also power lines so I've had various issues with EMI. I've heard static and even AM radio noise so I invested in various power conditioning/filtering devices.

Back to MacBook - it seems that the Touch ID is fairly sensitive to EMI. Here is what I found:

1) On battery power - no issues
2) Charger straight from AC outlet - failed 100%
3) Adding $10 basic power strip - failed 100%
4) Using Furman Power Station on "Digital" side - failed 100%
5) Using Furman Power Station on "Analog" side - failed 50%
6) Adding 1 pcs of PS Audio Noise Harvesters - failed about 20%
7) Adding 2 pcs of PS Audio Noise Harvesters - no issues
8) Changing charging cables for all of the above - no change

The above is all repeatable and provable. I was on the phone with Apple support and they confirmed I may have problems with significant noise on my AC lines. Fortunately, where I use the laptop on power, I can easily connect to my Furman Power Station. On a quick stop by my office, I had no issues using the charger straight to the wall socket.

I've experienced similar results using touchscreen on devices while charging from an outlet in my home which is why I was quick to try the above. Lastly, my experience says that a cable by itself cannot remove EMI from the source, it can only shield from additional EMI that is external to the source. However, even in my worse case scenario, I highly doubt there is much EMI that a 2 meter cable is going to pick up. The EMI I am getting is from the collective hundreds of meters of AC wires that are in the walls of my home that act as a very large antennae array to the AM radio and power lines.


----------



## adrianm

bflat said:


> Lastly, my experience says that a cable by itself cannot remove EMI from the source, it can only shield from additional EMI that is external to the source.


This is exactly what i was saying,which is why i also got the Isotek Sirius.Plus the added protection for the gear.Coincidentally,i also have a new Macbook Pro 16,but i haven't had any issues with touch id with it plugged in.Then again i have no radio relays  nearby,just a lot of neighbors in the building and ancient  power infrastructure.


----------



## JerryHead

Damz87 said:


> Or, get a DMP-Z1 and you can move it anywhere you like!


That thing must sound incredible huh?  I don't even see any of those having sold used online anytime recently.  Anyone who could afford one is probably likely to hold onto it.  It''s not like they'll end up needing to sell it for the cash.


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> That thing must sound incredible huh?  I don't even see any of those having sold used online anytime recently.  Anyone who could afford one is probably likely to hold onto it.  It''s not like they'll end up needing to sell it for the cash.


From what i’ve read regarding serial
numbers there haven’t been many  sold  new either.


----------



## JerryHead

adrianm said:


> From what i’ve read regarding serial
> numbers there haven’t been many  sold  new either.


Yeh, I bet. I wonder how the Dave compares to it.


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> Yeh, I bet. I wonder how the Dave compares to it.


I wondered that as well on the DMP-Z1 thread,but all i got was people screaming at me "THE DMP-Z1 IS IN A PRODUCT CATEGORY OF IT'S OWN,YOU CAN'T COMPARE IT TO OTHER DACS".


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> From what i’ve read regarding serial
> numbers there haven’t been many  sold  new either.



Given the price & also that of the Chord Dave, they're not going to sell in large numbers, i wouldn't have thought ??


----------



## adrianm

Well considering the closest competitor for the Dave is the new Dcs Bartok (also a streamer,and a lot of people believe that matters way more than it does) that is 50% more expensive than the Dave(double the Dave if you add current discounts) and is apparently selling like hot cakes...we might just be poor LOL. Or  "not passionate enough ".It's actually pretty cheap considering the cost of high end speaker systems


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> apparently selling like hot cakes...we might just be poor LOL.



This.


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jul 9, 2020)

I could compare the DMP and TA in the amp aspect. I watched a video from Joshua Valour and found this interesting. The headphones are the most important thing to use before branching out to stuff like the TA and other devices. Thought it was a good listen:


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> I could care the DMP and TA in the amp aspect. I watched a video from Joshua Valour and found this interesting. The headphones are the most important thing to use before branching out to stuff like the TA and other devices. Thought it was a good listen:


 
 I actually left him a comment about this, he doesn't seem to have much idea what he's talking about.If you check his review you can see he hasn't tested many dacs,and those he has probably use the same off the shelf chips.Why would they sound different? He also goes on to say the Dac and files are the least important things.Which is pretty hilarious. Sure,spend 100k on a system and listen to Spotify/mp3's out of your phone.Make sure you get those really expensive usb cables though.
   I think it's pretty common sense that no matter how much you believe in magical cables and usb reclockers and all kinds of crap you can't fix problems downstream.Garbage in,garbage out, a gold trashcan isn't going to change that.
  In one of his video he says the best value headphones are the free ones that come with the phone because you get to listen to music for free and it's about the experience.Fair enough.And he rants on about how you shouldn't spend more than a couple of hundred $ on headphones,and high end ones aren't worth it.Either he was ignorant or it was basically just a bait and switch.
    Regardless, after he managed to get his hands on some of them for testing, lo and behold, they're the worth buying.Same thing will follow with dacs as well,and from there to usb reclockers and cables because hey,a channel needs content.Just like Darko.
   I get it, everyone wants to be a streamer/reviewer, having a real job is hard and most of them pay less.But Youtube is flooded with people  giving advice  in all kinds of fields without even having an educated opinion...I can see how this works in the U.S. though, where opinions carry more weight than facts, because "freedom " i guess.
  In his case it doesn't seem like he's owned much equipment,most of the stuff is borrowed from viewers,or that he had any prior connection/interest in audio.Just analytics guided him towards this field.
  I did find some of his videos  at least partially informative when he gave his impressions about headphones but it's clear that  he's just learning this stuff as he goes and with click bait-y titles like "The truth " it seems like he's just chasing clicks and views.Which if you ask me is less dignified than being a cam girl.Or working at Fox news.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Just did a test and it was true how the sound of headphones is important after testing my connections. The TA did give more flavor vs the 1Z and my iPhone 11 Pro using my IER-Z1R. The overall sound quality is there, what I want from the IEMs but I do notice that sparkle as it continues to shine with the higher end equipment. All in all, test the headphones out and THEN build up to the equipment after. My iFi Hip Dac did make them sound warm as well. Choices are good. Hope everyone who owns the TA is loving theirs as much as I do.


----------



## Umwelt (Jul 9, 2020)

adrianm said:


> He also goes on to say the Dac and files are the least important things.Which is pretty hilarious. Sure,spend 100k on a system and listen to Spotify/mp3's out of your phone.Make sure you get those really expensive usb cables though.



He simply mentioned the order the list of factors from most to least significant in the audio experience (and note that the first time he mentions them is not exactly the same as the actual order he goes over a minute later).

Here's the timestamp to make it easier to find: 

So in the end the order is: Speakers/Headphones > Amps > DACs (and he gives a specific reason for why DAC is below Amp in importance) > Files > Cables, etc.

Which makes 100% sense in terms of diminishing returns to improvements in the sound experience. I don't think it can be argued against the order, though there can be an argument about the magnitude. For example, files do matter a lot, especially if you're talking about an extreme case such as 128kbps mp3s vs FLAC or higher. But then again, I'm also 100% sure that once you're talking to someone who is spending time and money on all of these factors you're dealing with someone who actively avoids listening to anything below a 320kbps mp3 file, so this becomes almost a non-factor by that point.


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> He simply mentioned the order the list of factors from most to least significant in the audio experience (and note that the first time he mentions them is not exactly the same as the actual order he goes over a minute later).
> 
> Here's the timestamp to make it easier to find:
> 
> ...



You would be sure,but there are people in the forums listening to Spotify or lower  with 15k-20k worth of gear.Why would a headphone amp be more important than the Dac,for any headphone,not to mention really sensitive ones? By your reasoning someone wouldn't buy Susvara's and run them on an Iphone so volume wouldn't be an issue. I'm not talking about adding distortion that you might like,such as with some cables and etc, i mean actually improving the sound.As in more transparency.And most cheaper amps do color the sound.Once you get to good ones the diminishing returns are greater than spending that on a Dac with a "lesser " amp.


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> Why would a headphone amp be more important than the Dac,for any headphone,not to mention really sensitive ones?



Headphone sensitivity relates to the amplification, not the DAC process, so you're undermining your own argument there if your point is to say that a DAC matters more than the Amp (which it does not, all things being equal). 
The video barely touches on it, but the fact is that a DAC only makes an impact to the sound due to its own amplifying component, further reinforcing the idea that the amplifying is what matters more than the mere digital to analogue conversion, which by this point is a very streamlined process that almost any modern device can do properly. It's not rocket science anymore.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Umwelt said:


> Headphone sensitivity relates to the amplification, not the DAC process, so you're undermining your own argument there if your point is to say that a DAC matters more than the Amp (which it does not, all things being equal).
> The video barely touches on it, but the fact is that a DAC only makes an impact to the sound due to its own amplifying component, further reinforcing the idea that the amplifying is what matters more than the mere digital to analogue conversion, which by this point is a very streamlined process that almost any modern device can do properly. It's not rocket science anymore.


That’s why I liked the video. Generally speaking, it’s pretty easy to understand his points across the board. There really is a point when an expensive set of headphones really can’t sound that amazing. The Focal Utopia were meh when I used the TA and other equipment. It just wasn’t my cup of tea.


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> I wondered that as well on the DMP-Z1 thread,but all i got was people screaming at me "THE DMP-Z1 IS IN A PRODUCT CATEGORY OF IT'S OWN,YOU CAN'T COMPARE IT TO OTHER DACS".


I couldn’t find your post on the DPM-Z1 thread.  Was it deleted?


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> Headphone sensitivity relates to the amplification, not the DAC process, so you're undermining your own argument there if your point is to say that a DAC matters more than the Amp (which it does not, all things being equal).


No.I'm not.The point was on low impedance headphones you don't need a powerful amplifier.So it's contribution is effectively 0 (besides adding distortion so you could call it negative).


Umwelt said:


> but the fact is that a DAC only makes an impact to the sound due to its own amplifying component, further reinforcing the idea that the amplifying is what matters more than the mere digital to analogue conversion, which by this point is a very streamlined process that almost any modern device can do properly. It's not rocket science anymore.


Wow what the actual ****.You do realize that amplification means enhancing what is already there .If what is there is crap amplification won't fix it. If this is what you guys take away after years in this hobby there's really no point in me arguing here.


Gamerlingual said:


> That’s why I liked the video. Generally speaking, it’s pretty easy to understand his points across the board.


Yes because he seems to know as much as you about stuff and mirror your opinions (remember echo chambers?).


Gamerlingual said:


> There really is a point when an expensive set of headphones really can’t sound that amazing. The Focal Utopia were meh when I used the TA and other equipment. It just wasn’t my cup of tea.


And apparently for most people that point is anything above their price target.For example you think that ur Z7's are better than the Z1R,Utopias,etc.
      Either :
1)everyone making/buying more expensive gear than you consider "worth it" is an idiot or
2) it's just a defensive mechanism (denial)  on your part.As most people do.
    It would be like me finally getting Dave and than ranting on around here how people's 20-30-50k dacs are the same or worse than my 10k dac. Ofc for you guys apparently the TA is the Dac benchmark.Why even get it if you think an amp is more important? The Ta is a pretty poor amp when it comes to driving more power hungry headphones. And by that i mean impedance not some mystical unquantifiable quality you think the gods have bestowed upon your favorite toy that make it sound better than everything else.
According to Josh's review of the TA the amp section sucks btw.
  Anyway continuing to argue here is pointless  so i'm going to spare us all and get back to more productive matters.


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> I couldn’t find your post on the DPM-Z1 thread.  Was it deleted?


Probably lost in the excitement,it was a while back.Consensus ranges from "we don't care how much more "technically " better  Dave is, the DMP-Z1 is more " musical" and portable to " the DMP-Z1 is better" It became apparent rather quickly that it's more fanboy-ism than anything else.There was one sensible person admitting it's more of a  convenience/status symbol thing, Kudos to him,i have no problem with that as long as people can admit it and not mislead others that are looking for some objective information.


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> Probably lost in the excitement,it was a while back.Consensus ranges from "we don't care how much more "technically " better  Dave is, the DMP-Z1 is more " musical" and portable to " the DMP-Z1 is better" It became apparent rather quickly that it's more fanboy-ism than anything else.There was one sensible person admitting it's more of a  convenience/status symbol thing, Kudos to him,i have no problem with that as long as people can admit it and not mislead others that are looking for some objective information.


Truthfully, objectivity gets lost in the discussion when passion erupts over all the subjective terms used to describe what we hear and what may be “better”, more “musical”, or “technically“ better, etc.  As my doctor would say “take two aspirin and call me in the morning”


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> Wow what the actual ****.You do realize that amplification means enhancing what is already there .If what is there is crap amplification won't fix it. If this is what you guys take away after years in this hobby there's really no point in me arguing here.



You may have taken that the wrong way. Amplification is a straightforward process too just like DAC, at least in principle. The problem is in practice that most devices are crap at providing good amplification for a wide variety of headphones, so it can kind of become a crapshoot if the amp is not of good quality.



adrianm said:


> Ofc for you guys apparently the TA is the Dac benchmark.Why even get it if you think an amp is more important? The Ta is a pretty poor amp when it comes to driving more power hungry headphones. And by that i mean impedance not some mystical unquantifiable quality you think the gods have bestowed upon your favorite toy that make it sound better than everything else.



This again may just be the wrong takeaway. At least for me and many other TA users, the reason to appreciate it is not because of the amp section, but the fact that amplification is versatile enough for all but the most power-hungry headphones, and it is combined with a good DAC circuit, plenty of input and output connection options, and an attractive design all combined into a single package that happens to sound pretty good at the end. Very few, if any other alternatives offer all of that as a single package.

At least on this side there's no argument going on, this is just a friendly conversation among sound enthusiasts


----------



## Gadget67

Umwelt said:


> .At least on this side there's no argument going on, this is just a friendly conversation among sound enthusiasts


Agree 1,000%!


----------



## Gamerlingual

Gadget67 said:


> Agree 1,000%!


x2


----------



## JerryHead (Jul 10, 2020)

zephyrstar said:


> I just got the 1m version of it. Sadly I am underwhelmed. The female jack is very tight and yet somehow doesn't make a consistent connection. Twisting it just a bit with a male plug inside it will go from one channel working, to both, to none. I have to futz with spinning it around to get both channels working.
> 
> Sigh, it was my last hope before getting a custom one made for a lot more $$$.


I'm happy to say, that I just received the Delock 4.4 (1m) extension cable from Amazon U.K. and it's GREAT!  Works real well, no problems on either end making the correct connections. Tight, but not too tight, and clicks in, and no loss of signal when twisting where my iem cable connects to the extension cable.  The sound is awesome. The only issue is that I wish I'd ordered the 2m length as I could've done with just a little longer, but otherwise, it was a great purchase.


----------



## Sanlitun

darmccombs said:


> I'm kinda curious...  What is the best sounding headphone or IEM that you've heard, when using the TA by itself (no additional amp).  I am guessing a lot of folks will mention the IER-Z1R, and the MDR-Z1R.  Have you heard anything better than these with the TA?



I alternate between LCD-X and HD800S


----------



## cosplayerkyo

Just picked up an 800S and does indeed sound fantastic with the Taz
]


----------



## JerryHead

My MacBook seems to sound the best so far with my TA (especially Tidal via Amarra Luxe).  If I ever get a second TA for another part of the house, what would be an equally as good sounding source (with Tidal too)?  How’s my iPad Mini going to sound with the TA?


----------



## Umwelt

JerryHead said:


> My MacBook seems to sound the best so far with my TA (especially Tidal via Amarra Luxe). If I ever get a second TA for another part of the house, what would be an equally as good sounding source (with Tidal too)? How’s my iPad Mini going to sound with the TA?



Your Mac should be just fine. In pretty much all the fancy speaker setups I've seen people have a Macbook or iMac feeding the data. Honestly I'm a believer that data is data, what you need to pay attention to is whether the data source is applying any sort of filtering or other processing of its own at the software level, whether the operating system or the music player application.


----------



## JerryHead

Umwelt said:


> Your Mac should be just fine. In pretty much all the fancy speaker setups I've seen people have a Macbook or iMac feeding the data. Honestly I'm a believer that data is data, what you need to pay attention to is whether the data source is applying any sort of filtering or other processing of its own at the software level, whether the operating system or the music player application.


And how do feel about such processing?  Vehemently against as some are here, or can’t listen without it like others?


----------



## Rob49

Is anyone using the Abyss Diana Phi with the TA & if so, what are your thoughts ? Thanks.


----------



## raymogi

Rob49 said:


> Is anyone using the Abyss Diana Phi with the TA & if so, what are your thoughts ? Thanks.



During burn in period (as I posted before in this thread), I don't really like how it pairs with Diana Phi. Seems pretty far away from the *magical *combination with the DMP.

Now that I've had my TA burn in for a week straight, I start to notice the difference. Let's just say it's prettttyyy close to the DMP now


----------



## Rob49

raymogi said:


> During burn in period (as I posted before in this thread), I don't really like how it pairs with Diana Phi. Seems pretty far away from the *magical *combination with the DMP.
> 
> Now that I've had my TA burn in for a week straight, I start to notice the difference. Let's just say it's prettttyyy close to the DMP now



Thanks. That's really interesting to know. So the TA is a recent purchase for you ? @coolhand mentioned on the DMP-Z1 thread ( & in private. ) the magic of the DMP-Z1 / Diana Phi combo....saying he feels it is his end game.

I've been trying to decide what audio product i should buy & i'm even more tempted by the Abyss Diana Phi's now.


----------



## Gamerlingual

People were curious how I listened to the Utopia before. Here’s the setup. Like I said, I also used the TA and still found the Clear a better set to go with the 2 setups.


----------



## adrianm

Gamerlingual said:


> People were curious how I listened to the Utopia before. Here’s the setup. Like I said, I also used the TA and still found the Clear a better set to go with the 2 setups.


So the MSB dac? i'm surprised you even needed it since current opinions indicate the Dac is largely irrelevant


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> Thanks. That's really interesting to know. So the TA is a recent purchase for you ? @coolhand mentioned on the DMP-Z1 thread ( & in private. ) the magic of the DMP-Z1 / Diana Phi combo....saying he feels it is his end game.
> 
> I've been trying to decide what audio product i should buy & i'm even more tempted by the Abyss Diana Phi's now.


Why not the AB-1266 PHI TC? People were complaining the Dave's headphone amp doesn't have enough power to drive them properly,but people using a Bartok say the sound great .
Spoiler alert : they have the exact same power.Meanwhile one guy on the Dave forum felt the need to add a 15k amp to the Dave for them and said he lost some transparency but it was worth it because "better dynamics".
Who can tell anything from these forums?
The TA's headphone amp meanwhile is slightly less powerful.Then again i don't know about the Diana phi but i imagine them being close.


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> Why not the AB-1266 PHI TC?



....because i suffer from severe M.E. & need to lay down all the time....obviously not suitable for that purpose....they may claim to be the best sounding headphone ever ??....but they certainly win the "most ugliest ever"....& i think that's why they went down the boutique route, with the Diana / Phi.


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> ....because i suffer from severe M.E. & need to lay down all the time....obviously not suitable for that purpose....they may claim to be the best sounding headphone ever ??....but they certainly win the "most ugliest ever"....& i think that's why they went down the boutique route, with the Diana / Phi.


Sorry to hear that,i take it portability is a factor for the Dac as well,which is why you're looking at the DMP-Z1?


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> Sorry to hear that,i take it portability is a factor for the Dac as well,which is why you're looking at the DMP-Z1?



Thanks. Yes & no, because i tend to stay & sleep in one room....i did take my TA once to my partner's & that caused him ( & i ) a bit of stress, with a water spillage ! lol 

The DAC side of the TA, i don't use much, because of the physical logistics / my positioning to my equipment & i don't store a great deal of music on my laptop...but aware i can use Spotify, e.t.c.

I just got interested in the DMP-Z1, because of the feedback. I actually like the usage of pre-out to my speakers with the TA. more than my headphone usage & i'm just searching for THAT headphone ! ??


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> The DAC side of the TA, i don't use much, because of the physical logistics / my positioning to my equipment & i don't store a great deal of music on my laptop...but aware i can use Spotify, e.t.c.


What do you mean? I assume you use a walkman,but doesn't that work just as a source when connected to the TA? Aka the TA dac is the one that does the processing?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Rob49 said:


> Thanks. Yes & no, because i tend to stay & sleep in one room....i did take my TA once to my partner's & that caused him ( & i ) a bit of stress, with a water spillage ! lol
> 
> The DAC side of the TA, i don't use much, because of the physical logistics / my positioning to my equipment & i don't store a great deal of music on my laptop...but aware i can use Spotify, e.t.c.
> 
> I just got interested in the DMP-Z1, because of the feedback. I actually like the usage of pre-out to my speakers with the TA. more than my headphone usage & i'm just searching for THAT headphone ! ??


Sounds like the DMP-Z1 would suit your need across the board. I would recommend it for your case for sure over the TA


----------



## Rob49 (Jul 11, 2020)

adrianm said:


> What do you mean? I assume you use a walkman,but doesn't that work just as a source when connected to the TA? Aka the TA dac is the one that does the processing?



Yes, i use my Walkman's....was just thinking out loud about laptop useage As a source i use my Sony HAP-S1 the most. There's times when i don't think of it as being a DAC. ....that it's doing all the processing...



Gamerlingual said:


> Sounds like the DMP-Z1 would suit your need across the board. I would recommend it for your case for sure over the TA



Yes, been thinking about the purchase for a long time, but just not sure if the expensive outlay is worth it ?? ( Even though such positive feedback on here. )


----------



## Umwelt

JerryHead said:


> And how do feel about such processing? Vehemently against as some are here, or can’t listen without it like others?



I just prefer to be in control and be able to know if there is any and what it is doing, rather than find out later after having listened to stuff with it unaware. With a PC at least you are able to control what the OS does with the audio data output, and even if certain AV player applications limit what you can control in them, you have a choice of which apps to use.


----------



## Gamerlingual (Jul 11, 2020)

Umwelt said:


> I just prefer to be in control and be able to know if there is any and what it is doing, rather than find out later after having listened to stuff with it unaware. With a PC at least you are able to control what the OS does with the audio data output, and even if certain AV player applications limit what you can control in them, you have a choice of which apps to use.


Would the control be done by the Sound Properties and max out the output at the max bit rate? I think @Redcarmoose taught me that tip

I think the DMP-Z1 at around $5500 would be fair


----------



## Umwelt

Gamerlingual said:


> Would the control be done by the Sound Properties and max out the output at the max bit rate? I think @Redcarmoose taught me that tip



Yep that's one way. My approach is to set the OS to not do any over or under sampling of the content being played back (which in practice means setting it to 44.1khz most of the time), to avoid such process taking place both on the source and external DAC side. I prefer to let the TA do all of it in a single step, though it may not matter. Setting the output bit rate higher than that of the content is fine, it won't make a difference to the sound, it's only useful in certain applications such as allowing gain control.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Umwelt said:


> Yep that's one way. My approach is to set the OS to not do any over or under sampling of the content being played back (which in practice means setting it to 44.1khz most of the time), to avoid such process taking place both on the source and external DAC side. I prefer to let the TA do all of it in a single step, though it may not matter. Setting the output bit rate higher than that of the content is fine, it won't make a difference to the sound, it's only useful in certain applications such as allowing gain control.


I'll make sure to check those settings on Music Center to use on my TA. Thanks for that little tip.


----------



## JerryHead

Umwelt said:


> Yep that's one way. My approach is to set the OS to not do any over or under sampling of the content being played back (which in practice means setting it to 44.1khz most of the time), to avoid such process taking place both on the source and external DAC side. I prefer to let the TA do all of it in a single step, though it may not matter. Setting the output bit rate higher than that of the content is fine, it won't make a difference to the sound, it's only useful in certain applications such as allowing gain control.


Can you tell me, on a macOS, where I would find that setting to change it to 44.1khz?  Are you referring to the Audio Midi Setup?


----------



## Umwelt

JerryHead said:


> Can you tell me, on a macOS, where I would find that setting to change it to 44.1khz? Are you referring to the Audio Midi Setup?



Yes that's where you can set the audio output settings for each output device.


----------



## raymogi

Rob49 said:


> Thanks. That's really interesting to know. So the TA is a recent purchase for you ? @coolhand mentioned on the DMP-Z1 thread ( & in private. ) the magic of the DMP-Z1 / Diana Phi combo....saying he feels it is his end game.
> 
> I've been trying to decide what audio product i should buy & i'm even more tempted by the Abyss Diana Phi's now.



Yup, most recent and *hopefully* last one for a while now 

Oh DMZ and Diana Phi is endgame for sure. I think it's @HiFiGuy528 endgame too.

I'll be honest... when I demoed Phi for the first time, the fit feels weird. Comfortable but weird. But when I own it and use it daily, it disappeared really. Clamping force is very minimal and fit is perfect. It gets even better when I bought this modded earpads inspired by a Youtuber called DMS I think. I just checked again at this time of writing, but it's not available in the Abyss store anymore.


----------



## Rob49 (Jul 12, 2020)

raymogi said:


> Yup, most recent and *hopefully* last one for a while now
> 
> Oh DMZ and Diana Phi is endgame for sure. I think it's @HiFiGuy528 endgame too.
> 
> I'll be honest... when I demoed Phi for the first time, the fit feels weird. Comfortable but weird. But when I own it and use it daily, it disappeared really. Clamping force is very minimal and fit is perfect. It gets even better when I bought this modded earpads inspired by a Youtuber called DMS I think. I just checked again at this time of writing, but it's not available in the Abyss store anymore.



Yes, i've been recently watching DMS video's. His own Diana Phi's look smart.

@coolhand is another gentleman that feels the DMP-Z1 & Diana Phi combo can't presently be bettered. When there's more than one person saying it, you have to believe their feedback.

Let us know how your burn in continues with the TA, please. It may be the route for me to take, i.e. Diana Phi's first, then decide on the DMP-Z1, although i had recently ruled it out, financially.

Forgot to say, that the question of comfort does bother me, mainly regarding the headband, or rather the lack of it, regards any real padding, but it could also prove to be most comfortable ?? Thanks for all your feedback.

Just thinking, i've seen a recent youtube comment that the vocal layers were like nothing they had heard, but i'm not sure if they were referring to the Phi, or the big, idiotic looking beast Abyss, whatever the number is 1266 ??


----------



## Rob49

cosplayerkyo said:


> Just picked up an 800S and does indeed sound fantastic with the Taz
> ]



These have been added to my "considerations" list.

This morning i've been listening to an old pair of Senn's 595 & i'm enjoying them. I'm begining to wonder if i'm coming to the conclusion that the Sony MDR-Z1R's are just too boomy & congested at times, whereas i wonder if Sennheiser's tend to be better balanced across the sound spectrum ??


----------



## Umwelt

Rob49 said:


> This morning i've been listening to an old pair of Senn's 595 & i'm enjoying them. I'm begining to wonder if i'm coming to the conclusion that the Sony MDR-Z1R's are just too boomy & congested at times, whereas i wonder if Sennheiser's tend to be better balanced across the sound spectrum ??



You're noticing the difference between an open and a closed (well, kind of semi-closed) headphone


----------



## Rob49

Umwelt said:


> You're noticing the difference between an open and a closed (well, kind of semi-closed) headphone



I had been thinking that....perhaps my choice of next headphone needs to be open ?? ( So i can cross off the Stellia's from my considerations list then ??  )


----------



## Gamerlingual

Rob49 said:


> I had been thinking that....perhaps my choice of next headphone needs to be open ?? ( So i can cross off the Stellia's from my considerations list then ??  )


Focal Clear would be highly recommended if you like open cans


----------



## Rob49

Gamerlingual said:


> Focal Clear would be highly recommended if you like open cans



Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, aware of the Clears, i am really starting to think to go with open headphones, even they will let noise in more ( & out. ) I'd have to say i' being strongly drawn to the Abyss Diana Phi ?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, aware of the Clears, i am really starting to think to go with open headphones, even they will let noise in more ( & out. ) I'd have to say i' being strongly drawn to the Abyss Diana Phi ?


For closed back, I think the MDR-Z7M2 offers a good performance without going to energetic. You can hear all the detail but it's more relaxed in its nature vs the Clear


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, aware of the Clears, i am really starting to think to go with open headphones, even they will let noise in more ( & out. ) I'd have to say i' being strongly drawn to the Abyss Diana Phi ?


From a comfort pov this makes more sense for you than Utopias for example.If you think the sound signature is something you'd like you should go for it.But also light and in the same league are the Meze Empyrean.Not sure what else would make sense for you.


----------



## dasherzx

weird question but is it possible to hook the pre-out of the zh1es to the TA-A1ES amp's line-in? im thinking of getting a speaker system but im wondering if another dac like the hap-z1es is necessary. and the quality of said configurations?


----------



## Rob49

Gamerlingual said:


> For closed back, I think the MDR-Z7M2 offers a good performance without going to energetic. You can hear all the detail but it's more relaxed in its nature vs the Clear



I have the Z1R's & i want to give another brand a try.



adrianm said:


> From a comfort pov this makes more sense for you than Utopias for example.If you think the sound signature is something you'd like you should go for it.But also light and in the same league are the Meze Empyrean.Not sure what else would make sense for you.



Utopia's were on the list. Haven't looked into Meze Empyrean in any real detail....in answer to your last statement....nor me !   I do think i will shock you ALL soon, though !


----------



## 340519

Rob49 said:


> I have the Z1R's & i want to give another brand a try.
> 
> 
> 
> Utopia's were on the list. Haven't looked into Meze Empyrean in any real detail....in answer to your last statement....nor me !   I do think i will shock you ALL soon, though !


I have both the empys and z1r  but as of now I prefer the z1r over all my cans. Simply stellar headphones and I absolutely love the sound signature.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jul 12, 2020)

dasherzx said:


> weird question but is it possible to hook the pre-out of the zh1es to the TA-A1ES amp's line-in? im thinking of getting a speaker system but im wondering if another dac like the hap-z1es is necessary. and the quality of said configurations?



The TA is used as a preamp in many high quality speaker systems. There is a choice of line out or attenuated RCA output to a power amp.

I don’t do it but it’s reported as first rate. Though keep in mind using the TA DAC is this use is preferred than adding an analog RCA input.

Though with your amplifier I would guess going line out would be the way. Now in essence your simply using the TA as a DAC. But for power-amp users they are using the TA as an attenuated pre-amp.


----------



## Rob49

dasherzx said:


> weird question but is it possible to hook the pre-out of the zh1es to the TA-A1ES amp's line-in? im thinking of getting a speaker system but im wondering if another dac like the hap-z1es is necessary. and the quality of said configurations?



Don't know if this helps, but i have my Sony HAP-S1 hooked up to my TA for speaker listening & it's most impressive !


----------



## adrianm

dmdm said:


> I have both the empys and z1r  but as of now I prefer the z1r over all my cans. Simply stellar headphones and I absolutely love the sound signature.


Have to agree.Can't say i've heard all the competition but since my use case is closed headphones i'd much rather get a better dac/amp (Dave) for the Z1R's and keep them rather than get some other headphones to use with the TA.
  Your opinion is pretty good validation


----------



## 340519

adrianm said:


> Have to agree.Can't say i've heard all the competition but since my use case is closed headphones i'd much rather get a better dac/amp (Dave) for the Z1R's and keep them rather than get some other headphones to use with the TA.
> Your opinion is pretty good validation


I have bryston gear which is my end game dac and amp so I'm set.


----------



## dasherzx

Redcarmoose said:


> The TA is used as a preamp in many high quality speaker systems. There is a choice of line out or attenuated RCA output to a power amp.
> 
> I don’t do it but it’s reported as first rate. Though keep in mind using the TA DAC is this use is preferred than adding an analog RCA input.
> 
> Though with your amplifier I would guess going line out would be the way. Now in essence your simply using the TA as a DAC. But for power-amp users they are using the TA as an attenuated pre-amp.


yes, that was what i'm thinking of, using the TA as a dac. but the a1es is an integrated amp so I would essentially have two preamps in my chain. it's certainly a combo I've never done before.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jul 12, 2020)

dasherzx said:


> yes, that was what i'm thinking of, using the TA as a dac. but the a1es is an integrated amp so I would essentially have two preamps in my chain. it's certainly a combo I've never done before.



But if you set the TA to line out, it’s not a preamp.

RCAs that can either be a fixed 2-volt output or variable via the volume control.


----------



## JerryHead

Has anyone connected an iPhone or iPad to the TA and ended up real happy with the sound?  If so, were you using any processing software on the iOS device?


----------



## dasherzx (Jul 12, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


> But if you set the TA to line out, it’s not a preamp.
> 
> RCAs that can either be a fixed 2-volt output or variable via the volume control.


oh, is that what the ''off'' pre-out setting does?
ok. i think i got it. thanks.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> But if you set the TA to line out, it’s not a preamp.
> 
> RCAs that can either be a fixed 2-volt output or variable via the volume control.


You’re like Mr. Wizard on Nickelodeon. Always with insightful and well constructed dialogue. That’s some good info there with the RCA’s on the TA


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jul 12, 2020)

Thanks, but the second 1/2 was copypasta.


----------



## adrianm

dmdm said:


> I have bryston gear which is my end game dac and amp so I'm set.


One shouldn't say such things out loud here since apparently the lastest research shows all dac's "kinda sound the same "


----------



## 340519

adrianm said:


> One shouldn't say such things out loud here since apparently the lastest research shows all dac's "kinda sound the same "


Yes they do, but I like the bryston aesthetic and incredible build quality.


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> One shouldn't say such things out loud here since apparently the lastest research shows all dac's "kinda sound the same "


So much for the Dave...


----------



## adrianm

Gadget67 said:


> So much for the Dave...


Not yet, i've yet to have the second audition  I'll decide on sending the TA back next week.


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> Not yet, i've yet to have the second audition  I'll decide on sending the TA back next week.


There was (and maybe still is) a two month old Dave for sale here.  He is asking $7500 US; honestly I hate to admit I was actually tempted!


----------



## adrianm

Sounds tempting indeed.You might get that or less from a dealer though,with the whole 5 year warranty.


----------



## Gamerlingual

JerryHead said:


> Has anyone connected an iPhone or iPad to the TA and ended up real happy with the sound?  If so, were you using any processing software on the iOS device?


Standard iTunes app. Twas pretty good considering I have the USB A female to lightning camera adapter for it. The iFi Hip Dac made me go that route and I was curious. Give it a try! You’ll be surprised!


----------



## darmccombs

JerryHead said:


> Has anyone connected an iPhone or iPad to the TA and ended up real happy with the sound?  If so, were you using any processing software on the iOS device?


I use the Macbook Pro, and 2018 12.9" Ipad Pro (with USB-C).  I think the ipad is actually a better match with the TA, as the timing seems more precise out of the iPad.  I'm very happy with the sound.  I am just using teh Qobuz app with High-Res music, no extra processing apps.  I do make it a point to close most of the unused apps on the iPad when listening to music.


----------



## darmccombs

Has anyone tried the TA with the ZMF Verite headphones?  If so, how did they sound?


----------



## JerryHead (Jul 12, 2020)

darmccombs said:


> I use the Macbook Pro, and 2018 12.9" Ipad Pro (with USB-C).  I think the ipad is actually a better match with the TA, as the timing seems more precise out of the iPad.  I'm very happy with the sound.  I am just using teh Qobuz app with High-Res music, no extra processing apps.  I do make it a point to close most of the unused apps on the iPad when listening to music.


And what are YOU using to connect that big iPad to the TA?  Are you saying you're using a USB C to lightening adapter?   I found this on Amazon this morning and wondering if it would work without using the Apple CCK(?)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R623HNJ/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_6?smid=A16KJJAGPD9RRO&psc=1


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> And what are YOU using to connect that big iPad to the TA?  Are you saying you're using a USB C to lightening adapter?   I found this on Amazon this morning and wondering if it would work without using the Apple CCK(?)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R623HNJ/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_6?smid=A16KJJAGPD9RRO&psc=1



As far as I know the CCK is only for the Lightning models


----------



## darmccombs

My ipad pro has a usb-c output, not Lightening.  So I have a Usb-c to Usb-b cable.  https://www.audioquest.com/cables/digital-cables/usb-b-to-usb-c/usb-b-to-c-carbon

If your ipad has a lightening connector, then something like you linked to should work fine.


----------



## JerryHead

darmccombs said:


> My ipad pro has a usb-c output, not Lightening.  So I have a Usb-c to Usb-b cable.  https://www.audioquest.com/cables/digital-cables/usb-b-to-usb-c/usb-b-to-c-carbon
> 
> If your ipad has a lightening connector, then something like you linked to should work fine.


ah okay, thanks, I didn't realize Apple had moved to USB C on their latest iPads.  My iPad Mini 4 still has the lightening.


----------



## adrianm

Better sell your TA's and get the new IFI amp/dac (well amp cuz the dac doesn't really matter) :



I was going to say it sounds like a commercial ,not a review (a la Johny Darko, but less experienced) , but apparently everyone beat me to it even though it was only out for an hour or so :


----------



## iFi audio

adrianm said:


> Johny Darko



John got really good at vid content in recent years. His stuff is a pleasure to watch 



adrianm said:


> cuz the dac doesn't really matter



I beg to differ


----------



## adrianm

iFi audio said:


> John got really good at vid content in recent years. His stuff is a pleasure to watch


Agreed ,he's an artisan at peddling hi-fi,snake oil and ikea furniture 


iFi audio said:


> I beg to differ


I do too but josh apparently doesn't


----------



## LetsEvolve (Jul 15, 2020)

Hi All,

Does anyone know if there are any fuses onboard inside the TA ? How many and what amperage ? Are they soldered-in or replaceable ? Thanks.


----------



## iFi audio

adrianm said:


> I do too but josh apparently doesn't



Apparently 



adrianm said:


> Agreed ,he's an artisan at peddling hi-fi,snake oil and ikea furniture



Yup, it's cool how he repurposed his Aptitlig cutting board!


----------



## adrianm

Welp round 2 happened today, Dave blew my mind all over again, Ta's going back next week , and the Z1R is better built,way more enjoyable and i would argue technically better than the Stellia. IMHO (  just to be politically correct)


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> Welp round 2 happened today, Dave blew my mind all over again, Ta's going back next week , and the Z1R is better built,way more enjoyable and i would argue technically better than the Stellia. IMHO (  just to be politically correct)



Glad to see this saga finally come to a conclusion!  (or has it...? tune in next time)


----------



## adrianm

Umwelt said:


> Glad to see this saga finally come to a conclusion!  (or has it...? tune in next time)


Definitely has  untill Dave 2,i actually can’t begin to imagine how this could be improved upon though.Soundstage on z1r went from 2d from 3d on some tracks( not just left right,but front left,back left ,etc) .In this respect the Stellias had less width and less height than the z1r


----------



## Umwelt

adrianm said:


> Definitely has  untill Dave 2,i actually can’t begin to imagine how this could be improved upon though.Soundstage on z1r went from 2d from 3d on some tracks( not just left right,but front left,back left ,etc) .In this respect the Stellias had less width and less height than the z1r



Z1R on TA sounds totally 3D for me when the track calls for it. That's part of why it's such a good combo for gaming as well. Well, I think the Z1Rs are capable of this on their own regardless of DAC/Amp used, though more power will emphasize things obviously.

BTW, give this a try if you want to check on the "3Dness" of headphones: https://www.sony.com/electronics/360-reality-audio


----------



## adrianm

I will


Umwelt said:


> Z1R on TA sounds totally 3D for me when the track calls for it. That's part of why it's such a good combo for gaming as well. Well, I think the Z1Rs are capable of this on their own regardless of DAC/Amp used, though more power will emphasize things obviously.
> 
> BTW, give this a try if you want to check on the "3Dness" of headphones: https://www.sony.com/electronics/360-reality-audio


I tried gaming on the TA+ Z1R and while the Z1R sounds amazing compared to my Sennheiser Game Zero headset,the Sennheiser GSX 1200 is unbeatable for positional audio,it takes real 7.1 output and converts it to virtual surround on the fly, i haven't heard anything else virtual surround wise that comes close.Comboing the GSX with the Z1R is nice but way too sweaty for shooter gaming sessions 

Tidal has some 360 reality audio music and that's nice but i was just comparing imaging of the Z1R to the Stellia and it was clearly lacking


----------



## adrianm (Jul 16, 2020)

Overall impressions from today's audition:
The Stellia build quality was kinda meh,no real clamp except from the height adjust? The only thing it had going for it over the Z1R was lower mids were a bit more clear since the bass wasn't as pronounced.But overall i'd take the  bass of the Z1R any day.The Stellia's were just..dry. Also the bass on the Dave was a lot tighter and leaner than on the TA,they sounded quite a bit more neutral.
     I've failed to find one other area where the Z1R's aren't superior.Maybe on lower end dacs the delta is smaller? But with the Dave, the Z1R leapfrog them clearly in all aspects.I don't know what some people were talking about when saying Stellias have a better soundstage. It was lacking in both dimension and focus + separation.
   Enough about them ,back to Z1R and dacs:
   Imaging was a lot more focused on Dave vs TA. 3d-ness when recorded as such is one thing,but getting some sense of depth on tracks that i've heard  hundreds of times and were basically 2d (as most music) was kinda perplexing.The Z1R's  became a concert hall.Honestly , as i prefer closed headphones , if my Z1R's died tomorrow i'd just get another pair instead of anything else.Unpopular opinion but i think there are the best closed backs on the market.
   Dave just did a lot of things better : voices,cymbal decays,plucking of strings was a lot more detailed and nuanced,to the point which in some tracks on the TA  i never realized that the guitarist was randomly hitting a different note  with everything going on.Not sure if intentional but they sounded so close together that on the TA it was identical.
      After 20-30 minutes i got so sick of comparing that i didn't want to listen to the TA anymore since i knew exactly how my playlist sounded  on the TA and had confirmed it.The differences were so obvious, i didn't even want to listen the the TT2 since it disappointed me the first time.Or anything else.I just wanted to listen to Dave,shame a couple of hours had passed and i had to go run some other errands.Can't wait till i get it though.It's like crack (i imagine).

I don't want this to come off as me not appreciating the TA.For it's price i honestly think it's amazing, (especially with available discounts) and with more neutral headphones (Such as the Stellias maybe?) to balance out that Sony sound signature i think you'd struggle to find anything better.Case in point,to me the only thing "better " costs 6X as much .And i  honestly consider it worth it over anything i've heard,  not just the TA.

  Some of the tracks used : Agnes Obel's Philharmonics album,Mark Knopfler's Get lucky,Chris Jones' Moonstruck,some Alison Krauss tracks, a few  of Michael Kiwanuka's,
   The Carpenters with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra album .

   In conclusion : The cake is not a lie. I honestly think the price is kinda justified.And i'm the world's oldest 29 year old.


----------



## adrianm

Also used my dell xps 13 laptop and to my surprise there were no power filters, mains regenerators or anything ,just plugged straight into the wall.So there was no 30k streamer or this time or 10k power regenerators as i suspected involved.Just Dave and a laptop + tidal.And my chord c-line usb cable.No fancy 1k cables.


----------



## darmccombs

I know this may sound crazy, but I am thinking of selling my TA.  Right now, I am only using it for my IER-Z1R.  It sounds very good with these, but I feel like I am wasting the TA, using it like this.


----------



## Gamerlingual

darmccombs said:


> I know this may sound crazy, but I am thinking of selling my TA.  Right now, I am only using it for my IER-Z1R.  It sounds very good with these, but I feel like I am wasting the TA, using it like this.


You went from a complete 180 with Sony. Won't be surprised if the IER-Z1R also goes. Best luck in your endeavors.


----------



## darmccombs

Gamerlingual said:


> You went from a complete 180 with Sony. Won't be surprised if the IER-Z1R also goes. Best luck in your endeavors.


We'll see.  I do like the IER-Z1R.  I think I'll be keeping that for a while.

I do like the TA, I just think it should be driving full sized headphones and/or multiple headphones.  the SQ on this and the flexibility provided by the numerous input and output types is crazy good.


----------



## adrianm

darmccombs said:


> I know this may sound crazy, but I am thinking of selling my TA.  Right now, I am only using it for my IER-Z1R.  It sounds very good with these, but I feel like I am wasting the TA, using it like this.


Hope it's not an account of me.Unless you're also going for  a Dave


----------



## adrianm

darmccombs said:


> I do like the TA, I just think it should be driving full sized headphones and/or multiple headphones. the SQ on this and the flexibility provided by the numerous input and output types is crazy good.


What about the Verite?


----------



## darmccombs (Jul 16, 2020)

adrianm said:


> Hope it's not an account of me.Unless you're also going for  a Dave


No LOL, I am not looking to spend that kind of money, and I have no way to demo the Dave.  Dave is safe from me...




adrianm said:


> What about the Verite?


The Verite is 300ohm.  The TA does a decent job job with it, but I think I may eventually need an external amp to get the very best out of the Verite.  With that in mind, folks have said that my RME ADI-2 is a pretty good DAC, and would match up well with a tube amp that is higher impedance (than a Solid state amp like the TA or RME), which is good for the Verites.


----------



## adrianm

darmccombs said:


> No LOL, I am not looking to spend that kind of money, and I have no way to demo the Dave.  Dave is safe from me...
> 
> 
> 
> The Verite is 300ohm.  The TA does a decent job job with it, but I think I may eventually need an external amp to get the very best out of the Verite.  With that in mind, folks have said that my RME ADI-2 is a pretty good DAC, and would match up well with a tube amp that is higher impedance (than a Solid stat amp like the TA or RME), which is good for the Verite's


Well that makes sense .I also considered demo-ing the ifi idsd and ican stack but the dealer felt there was no point in the comparison.You might feel
Differently.Though i’m not an ifi fan considering their ...”marketing”.
  Might also want to check the gold note ds-10? Looks pretty amazing as a streamer dac and headphone amp all
In one.And pretty good reviews.sweet on the eyes 2


----------



## JerryHead

anyone hear of a bluetooth receiver (with Low Latency) dongle or device that you could connect to the TA?  I want to try and transmit TV sound through the TA and my TV is 20 feet away from my listening station.  I already have a BT low latency transmitter which works well connected to my AVR..


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> anyone hear of a bluetooth receiver (with Low Latency) dongle or device that you could connect to the TA?  I want to try and transmit TV sound through the TA and my TV is 20 feet away from my listening station.  I already have a BT low latency transmitter which works well connected to my AVR..



I’ve just run a 20 feet optical cable from my tv to the TA


----------



## Rob49 (Jul 18, 2020)

I have a new pair of headphones, presently plugged into my TA, unbalanced first....George Michael - "Patience"....my go to album for trying out new headphones.....i have already posted what they are. lol Not what i intended to buy, especially as what budget i was prepared to pay, i.e. £3.000 - £4.000.


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> I have a new pair of headphones, presently plugged into my TA, unbalanced first....George Michael - "Patience"....my go to album for trying out new headphones.....i have already posted what they are. lol Not what i intended to buy, especially as what budget i was prepared to pay, i.e. £3.000 - £4.000.


 If you like it, budget is irrelevant , saved some cash,good for you  . People turning these forums into a pissing contest is honestly the best justification i've found for why people spend 10-12 k on a streamer and etc.
  So Diana Phi's are out?


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> If you like it, budget is irrelevant , saved some cash,good for you  . People turning these forums into a pissing contest is honestly the best justification i've found for why people spend 10-12 k on a streamer and etc.
> So Diana Phi's are out?



Yes, i wasn't swayed by budget, completely, but was probably influenced by it & i did want another flagship headphone to try out, but regards the Diana Phi, i couldn't justify the price, if there was a possible fit issue ? Which there clearly is for some.

I always enjoyed ( & still do. ) a pair of old Sennheiser's & was going to pull the trigger on the 800S, but i made a decision yesterday afternoon to buy the 660's after watching some reviews....as you say, saving a considerable amount of money on what i intended & hopefully will prove enjoyable...


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> saving a considerable amount of money on what i intended & hopefully will prove enjoyable...


Well in case you're like me and you'd rather have the toys than the cash...you know what i think would be a good use for it and a genuine upgrade for all your headphones


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> Well in case you're like me and you'd rather have the toys than the cash...you know what i think would be a good use for it and a genuine upgrade for all your headphones



Oh !....a "Davina" !


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> Oh !....a "Davina" !


To think that  untill 3 months ago i thought 2k was too much for a dac and after 2 auditions i'm running around with a tinfoil hat telling everyone  to get a Dave.LOL.
  Depending on disposable income and how much you value really subtle stuff.But i'm assuming most of us do.


----------



## Rob49

adrianm said:


> To think that  untill 3 months ago i thought 2k was too much for a dac and after 2 auditions i'm running around with a tinfoil hat telling everyone  to get a Dave.LOL.
> Depending on disposable income and how much you value really subtle stuff.But i'm assuming most of us do.




Well if someone had told me i would have bought the TA & Z1R two years ago, i wouldn't have believed them.....now i'm looking at £3.000 - £4.000 headphones & DMP-Z1....& even a "Davina".....perhaps that will be Chord Electronics successor to the "Dave" ??   ....and then perhaps they'll have a child....the "Davey" ??

( Buying these Senn 660's has obviously affected me !  )


----------



## adrianm

Rob49 said:


> Well if someone had told me i would have bought the TA & Z1R two years ago, i wouldn't have believed them.....now i'm looking at £3.000 - £4.000 headphones & DMP-Z1....& even a "Davina".....perhaps that will be Chord Electronics successor to the "Dave" ??   ....and then perhaps they'll have a child....the "Davey" ??
> 
> ( Buying these Senn 660's has obviously affected me !  )


Well since DAVE is an abbreviation, probably not  .A successor isn't even in the plans yet apparently ,i obsessed over that for a while as well.Even if it was ,hard to imagine how it could be approved upon.For upgradeability there's the M-scaler.


----------



## Rob49

Into my third day listening to my Sennheiser 660S with the TA ( Sources, ZX300 - Sony HAP-S1 ) At last i feel happy for the first time. The detail extension is so impressive, nothing overwhelms anything else, just a wonderful balanced sound & exceptional value.


----------



## adrianm

Well my TA is back on it's way to amazon finally,after a few days of sorting out the 200 euro transport fee with them.left town and been listening to the Sony wh1000xm2's and airpods pro..kinda prefer the airpods surprisingly.They're both kinda hard to bear though.


----------



## adrianm

If any TA pops up on amazon warehouse deals in a week or so..it's mine,and has a broken 3.5mm output, as i suspect they will "forget to mention ".


----------



## LetsEvolve

Hi All,

I received my TA today and going to replace the stock power inlet, but it seems not a trivial task to remove the top cover.
If someone could achieve this, can you please share the tips ?


----------



## LetsEvolve

Hi, is there anywhere the "TA-ZH1ES" *Service Manual* in Pdf  (not Operating Instructions Manual) ?


----------



## JerryHead (Jul 27, 2020)

..


----------



## adrianm

Well , full refund issued after 3 months of using the TA , Amazon warehouse deals is pretty awesome.When products aren't defective.Back to the Mojo for a week or 2.


----------



## JerryHead (Aug 1, 2020)

(..)


----------



## Gamerlingual

LetsEvolve said:


> Hi, is there anywhere the "TA-ZH1ES" *Service Manual* in Pdf  (not Operating Instructions Manual) ?


Sony’s support site lets you download PDF manuals


----------



## Whitigir

Gamerlingual said:


> Sony’s support site lets you download PDF manuals


Is there any link ?


----------



## Gadget67

Whitigir said:


> Is there any link ?


https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/res/manuals/4598/45982541M.pdf


----------



## Whitigir

Gadget67 said:


> https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/res/manuals/4598/45982541M.pdf


Thank you, but this is user manual and not service manual


----------



## Gadget67

Whitigir said:


> Thank you, but this is user manual and not service manual


Sorry—didn’t read back far enough!  I’ve never been able to find an “official”service manual.


----------



## TheThingGoesSkrrr

can this amp drive inefficient headphone like diana v2 ?


----------



## Gamerlingual

TheThingGoesSkrrr said:


> can this amp drive inefficient headphone like diana v2 ?


600 Ohms max


----------



## sarnhelen

darmccombs said:


> No LOL, I am not looking to spend that kind of money, and I have no way to demo the Dave.  Dave is safe from me...
> 
> 
> 
> The Verite is 300ohm.  The TA does a decent job job with it, but I think I may eventually need an external amp to get the very best out of the Verite.  With that in mind, folks have said that my RME ADI-2 is a pretty good DAC, and would match up well with a tube amp that is higher impedance (than a Solid state amp like the TA or RME), which is good for the Verites.


Damn, you're stiirring my audioneurosis. If you do this, as Verite and TA-Z are what I too have, and maybe go for the ampsandsound Mogwai SE and the RME, well, tell us about it, since that's my fantasy...


----------



## TheThingGoesSkrrr

oof any of the zmf headphones are made for tube amp. Mogwai is definitely a great amp for verite. Curious if TA -> tube amp will be a good pair


----------



## darmccombs

sarnhelen said:


> Damn, you're stiirring my audioneurosis. If you do this, as Verite and TA-Z are what I too have, and maybe go for the ampsandsound Mogwai SE and the RME, well, tell us about it, since that's my fantasy...


Well, I did upgrade my amp from the TA to the GS-X Mini.  The Verite opened up with better soundstage, better definition of instruments, and better control over the bass.  It was a noticeable improvement.

A lot of Verite owners say tubes make for the ultimate amp for the Verites, so the Mogwai is probably an even better choice that the GS-X Mini.  I just didn't want to mess with tubes at this time.

The TA is a fine dac/amp, but if you can afford the Mogwai (with the RME), it will probably bring more out of your Verites.


----------



## gsiu33

JerryHead said:


> ah okay, thanks, I didn't realize Apple had moved to USB C on their latest iPads.  My iPad Mini 4 still has the lightening.


So far only the iPad Pro series come with USB-C, others still using lightening.


----------



## JerryHead

gsiu33 said:


> So far only the iPad Pro series come with USB-C, others still using lightening.


I see, okay, thanks.  Gee, you must've been digging to find that post.  What else did you find back there?  I've had my TA now for about ten weeks, and I'm loving it more than ever (with my IER-Z1Rs).  Wouldn't be able to listen to it though without putting my (local) high-res files through the EQ of Amarra Luxe.  But boy, I'm still finding the end result amazing!


----------



## Bobdonut123

How does this compare to the THX 789? Im thinking of upgrading for my Sony Z1Rs


----------



## hdemico

Hallo to everybody...
The TA Sony is working with any Android system like Samsung Tablets etc?
Anyone compared Sony with new Topping A90 or Benchmark HPA4? 
Anyone have take measurements  of TA (SNR, THD for example)?


----------



## Lookout57

hdemico said:


> Hallo to everybody...
> The TA Sony is working with any Android system like Samsung Tablets etc?
> Anyone compared Sony with new Topping A90 or Benchmark HPA4?
> Anyone have take measurements  of TA (SNR, THD for example)?


The TA will work with anything.
Don't know.
Why? Listening is the best measurement tool.


----------



## gobb

Hello. Would such setup work please? Thanks for advice.
PS-HX500 (LINE OUT) -> TA-ZH1ES (LINE IN) -> TA-ZH1ES (PRE OUT) -> CMT-SX7 (LINE IN)


----------



## Lookout57

gobb said:


> Hello. Would such setup work please? Thanks for advice.
> PS-HX500 (LINE OUT) -> TA-ZH1ES (LINE IN) -> TA-ZH1ES (PRE OUT) -> CMT-SX7 (LINE IN)


Yes


----------



## gobb

Thank you. In specs it says it has 314mm depth lenght. What is the total depth length of TA-ZH1ES, including the inserted (power) cord cable until the point where the cable can be twisted? Anyone having this amplifier, could you measure please as my potential space where to place it is limited.


----------



## drews

gobb said:


> Thank you. In specs it says it has 314mm depth lenght. What is the total depth length of TA-ZH1ES, including the inserted (power) cord cable until the point where the cable can be twisted? Anyone having this amplifier, could you measure please as my potential space where to place it is limited.



14" from the front (not including the volume knob) to the end of a twisted power plug...


----------



## JerryHead (Aug 9, 2020)

hdemico said:


> Hallo to everybody...
> The TA Sony is working with any Android system like Samsung Tablets etc?
> Anyone compared Sony with new Topping A90 or Benchmark HPA4?
> Anyone have take measurements  of TA (SNR, THD for example)?


I‘m real curious about how the Topping DX7 Pro compares to the TA and how the IER-Z1Rs would sound with the Topping.  Can you really get the performance of the TA for much less than 1/3 the price?


----------



## Soundfalls (Aug 9, 2020)

Hi guys, some newbie questions here. 
How do you connect the NW ZX300 Walkman ( I already have) to the TA ZH 1ES (thinking of buying)? Do I need to purchase a new cable (if so, which one) or will it come with the TAZH? 
I have read on some YouTube channel that the TAZH is underpowered for some magnetic planar headphones. Anyone using this with say... the Hifiman Arya or even the He1000 V1, V2 or the latest SE can share their experience?
Thanks in advance for help.


----------



## bflat

Soundfalls said:


> Hi guys, newbie question here. How do you connect the NW ZX300 Walkman ( I already have) to the TA ZH 1ES (thinking of buying)? Do I need to purchase a new cable or will it come with the TA ZH? Thanks for help.



TA comes with a cable to connect your ZX300 to the WM Port on the side of the TA.


----------



## Soundfalls

bflat said:


> TA comes with a cable to connect your ZX300 to the WM Port on the side of the TA.


Thanks!!


----------



## ASIN

Soundfalls said:


> Hi guys, some newbie questions here.
> How do you connect the NW ZX300 Walkman ( I already have) to the TA ZH 1ES (thinking of buying)? Do I need to purchase a new cable (if so, which one) or will it come with the TAZH?
> I have read on some YouTube channel that the TAZH is underpowered for some magnetic planar headphones. Anyone using this with say... the Hifiman Arya or even the He1000 V1, V2 or the latest SE can share their experience?
> Thanks in advance for help.


I had the same problem, I will pm.


----------



## JerryHead

Observation:  the IER-Z1R is a better iem than the SE846 in almost every way, but the soundstage on the SE846 is definitely wider, at least through the TA.


----------



## Damz87

JerryHead said:


> Observation:  the IER-Z1R is a better iem than the SE846 in almost every way, but the soundstage on the SE846 is definitely wider, at least through the TA.



I haven’t heard an SE846, but the IER-Z1R’s soundstage isn’t very wide compared to others I’ve heard in it’s class. It still has a large soundstage but it’s like a spherical presentation around your head. I really like it’s staging, it works well for electronic music


----------



## Gamerlingual

So Sony says the impedance for this amp is 16 to 600 ohms. Is that for the headphone output or for the RCA L and R inputs in the back?


----------



## Whitigir

Gamerlingual said:


> So Sony says the impedance for this amp is 16 to 600 ohms. Is that for the headphone output or for the RCA L and R inputs in the back?


Whenever they stated that, it is for amplified output.  RCA is line out and line in, they are not amplified output, and so it shouldn’t be applicable here


----------



## Gamerlingual

Whitigir said:


> Whenever they stated that, it is for amplified output.  RCA is line out and line in, they are not amplified output, and so it shouldn’t be applicable here


Weird they couldn’t specify despite asking them. What is the amplified output in ohms for the DMP-Z1? The advertisement says they can drive the most demanding headphones


----------



## Gamerlingual

If @Whitigir or someone else knows, I would be interested in knowing.


----------



## Whitigir

Gamerlingual said:


> Weird they couldn’t specify despite asking them. What is the amplified output in ohms for the DMP-Z1? The advertisement says they can drive the most demanding headphones





Gamerlingual said:


> If @Whitigir or someone else knows, I would be interested in knowing.


----------



## Gamerlingual (Aug 13, 2020)

Whitigir said:


>


Right, but it doesn't list the impedance range like the TA-ZH1ES which is between 12 to 600ohms. Any reason for this? Perhaps it doesn't apply to to the DMP-Z1? Can it drive high impedance headphones like the AKG-K240 which has 600 ohms?


----------



## Gamerlingual (Aug 13, 2020)

Update. This is for the DMP-Z1. Doesn’t make sense why no impedance range doesn’t show up


----------



## Gamerlingual

Above post updated with the correct pic. So anyone know why the DMP-Z1 doesn't show the impedance range but the TA does?


----------



## PaulMiami

JerryHead said:


> Has anyone connected an iPhone or iPad to the TA and ended up real happy with the sound?  If so, were you using any processing software on the iOS device?


I used the Apple lightning camera adapter on iPhone 6, X and iPad Pro with the Tidal, Qobuz and Roon app (as Roon endpoint).  It works great.   However now I’m using a Sonore microRendu as a Roon endpoint and it sounds truly amazing with Utopia headphone.


----------



## Bobdonut123

Im finally getting the TAZ1 on Tuesday. No one here could comment on my current setup (THX 789+topping E-30) compared this, so i'm hoping the TA will be a noticeable upgrade. Also getting a new balanced silver cable to go along to test my Z1Rs =) I really hope the placebo is strong enough to qualify this purchase.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Bobdonut123 said:


> Im finally getting the TAZ1 on Tuesday. No one here could comment on my current setup (THX 789+topping E-30) compared this, so i'm hoping the TA will be a noticeable upgrade. Also getting a new balanced silver cable to go along to test my Z1Rs =) I really hope the placebo is strong enough to qualify this purchase.



Haven’t heard your comparisons, but you’ll love it!....I’m guessing.


----------



## JerryHead

Has anyone who owns a TA listened to the Fiio M15?  I need another DAC/Amp for my bedroom and am on the fence about getting either a second TA or the M15.  I'm wondering if the sound of the M15 can measure close to the TA?


----------



## chaiyuta

@JerryHead I'd ever tried both. In my opinion it is impossible to close. Most portable DAP can't outperform to Desktop-sized DAC/AMP.


----------



## Bobdonut123

Does anyone have recommendations for the best settings to use for PC use on the TAZ1? I use tidal


----------



## jirams

I no longer use my TA ZH1ES bought new in April 2017.
Any UK member interested in purchasing from me please PM me.
=== UK only ===


----------



## JerryHead

Bobdonut123 said:


> Does anyone have recommendations for the best settings to use for PC use on the TAZ1? I use tidal


I use Amarra Luxe to EQ my sound going from laptop to TA, and that software incorporates Tidal.  It's buggy, and I know others consider using EQ with the TA sacriledge, but IMHO the EQ feature vastly improves the sound.  If you insist on using only the Tidal desktop app on your PC, there are in fact specific settings within that native Tidal app that you'll want to use.  Someone here suggested them to me, I just can't find those posts right now.


----------



## normie610

Can anyone please tell me whether the TA can accept 4.4mm line out connection from a DAP? If yes, do you connect the DAP’s 4.4mm lineout to TA’s RCA input at the back? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Redcarmoose

normie610 said:


> Can anyone please tell me whether the TA can accept 4.4mm line out connection from a DAP? If yes, do you connect the DAP’s 4.4mm lineout to TA’s RCA input at the back? Thanks in advance.



I’ve read it’s best to go 3.5mm un-balanced to RCA.


----------



## nc8000

normie610 said:


> Can anyone please tell me whether the TA can accept 4.4mm line out connection from a DAP? If yes, do you connect the DAP’s 4.4mm lineout to TA’s RCA input at the back? Thanks in advance.



As the TA don’t have balanced input you have to come from the 3.5 single ended output on the dap to 2 rca on the TA


----------



## normie610

Redcarmoose said:


> I’ve read it’s best to go 3.5mm un-balanced to RCA.





nc8000 said:


> As the TA don’t have balanced input you have to come from the 3.5 single ended output on the dap to 2 rca on the TA



Ok thanks!


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


> As the TA don’t have balanced input you have to come from the 3.5 single ended output on the dap to 2 rca on the TA





Redcarmoose said:


> I’ve read it’s best to go 3.5mm un-balanced to RCA.


Is there a lot about the TA I still don’t know? Seems to have a lot more potential than I’m initially lead to believe


----------



## nc8000

Gamerlingual said:


> Is there a lot about the TA I still don’t know? Seems to have a lot more potential than I’m initially lead to believe



There are a fair number of things one can do with the various connections on the TA. I have usb in from my Auralic streamer and optical in from the bed room tv. I’ve from time to time also had a record player connected to the rca inputs and had active speakers connected to the rca outputs.


----------



## hdemico

Anyone has tryed any impedance below 8 ohm with this amp?
I would like to try the ERGO AMT with the balanced 4 pin output, but the problem is the ERGO AMT are rated at 3,5- 3ohm...
The good news is that the AMT are very sensitive( 100db with 1mw). 
Do you think can be possible to drive the AMT with the Sony???


----------



## slumberman

Selling my TA if anyone is interested! Saving up for DMP 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-eu-sony-ta-zh1es.941170/


----------



## JerryHead

Is there really a true “burn-in” period associated with the TA?  Does Sony say so?


----------



## Aslshark

Hi, posting picture of the bedside rig, sorry if it’s tilted. Just upgraded with a Furutech Flow 28. Goodbye to listening fatigue, I think the slight mudiness I felt was there, is gone. Vocals are more natural and it is easier to follow the instruments. Really happy with it, the MDR-Z1R feels more balanced. I’ve been thinking much about the DMP, but with this level of sound quality  I can wait a bit more.


----------



## JerryHead

Aslshark said:


> Hi, posting picture of the bedside rig, sorry if it’s tilted. Just upgraded with a Furutech Flow 28. Goodbye to listening fatigue, I think the slight mudiness I felt was there, is gone. Vocals are more natural and it is easier to follow the instruments. Really happy with it, the MDR-Z1R feels more balanced. I’ve been thinking much about the DMP, but with this level of sound quality  I can wait a bit more.


What else do you have attached to it?  It looks like an aftermarket power cord?  If so, which one?


----------



## Aslshark

Nordost Brahma power cord.


----------



## Bobdonut123

With the new RTX cards coming out, Im gonna have to open up my budget a bit... Shoot me offers for my TAZ1 if anyone is interested!


----------



## JerryHead

Bobdonut123 said:


> With the new RTX cards coming out, Im gonna have to open up my budget a bit... Shoot me offers for my TAZ1 if anyone is interested!


how old is it, and do you still have a copy of the receipt?


----------



## Bobdonut123

JerryHead said:


> how old is it, and do you still have a copy of the receipt?


Don't have copy of the receipt. It's two weeks old


----------



## JerryHead

Bobdonut123 said:


> Don't have copy of the receipt. It's two weeks old


Just PM'd you.


----------



## JerryHead

Help. How would I connect the TA to a MacBook that has only USB ports and a 3.5mm port?  I'd use a cable to connect the TA's USB B to the MacBook's USB A port, correct?  Or would I connect to the MacBook's 3.5mm instead?  Thanks.


----------



## Damz87

JerryHead said:


> Help. How would I connect the TA to a MacBook that has only USB ports and a 3.5mm port?  I'd use a cable to connect the TA's USB B to the MacBook's USB A port, correct?  Or would I connect to the MacBook's 3.5mm instead?  Thanks.



USB-A on MacBook to USB-B on TA


----------



## JerryHead

Damz87 said:


> USB-A on MacBook to USB-B on TA


Great, thanks, just wanted to be sure before I purchased a cable.


----------



## JerryHead

Which devices for storage are people finding sound the best with the TA?  I mean, besides the 1A/1Z?


----------



## Gamerlingual

JerryHead said:


> Which devices for storage are people finding sound the best with the TA?  I mean, besides the 1A/1Z?


Extreme pro Sandisk


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> Which devices for storage are people finding sound the best with the TA?  I mean, besides the 1A/1Z?



I’m using an Auralic Aries Mini with a 2TB ssd


----------



## JerryHead (Sep 23, 2020)

Anyone know of a good USB B to lightening cable to connect an iOS device to the TA?


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## cosplayerkyo

You seriously take some of the best photos.  These easily can be Sony official photos


----------



## Redcarmoose

You get flowers......


cosplayerkyo said:


> You seriously take some of the best photos.  These easily can be Sony official photos


----------



## Quadfather

Redcarmoose said:


>




Is that an HP Envy X-360? If so, that's the computer I use for all my music stuff.


----------



## nc8000

Quadfather said:


> Is that an HP Envy X-360? If so, that's the computer I use for all my music stuff.



It’s a MacBook Air


----------



## Redcarmoose (Sep 28, 2020)

nc8000 said:


> It’s a MacBook Air


Yes.........
I've had both for years but I may be going over to Apple permanently?


----------



## Quadfather

nc8000 said:


> It’s a MacBook Air



I am surprised by how similar it looks to mine


----------



## Quadfather

The two computers do look very similar.  This HP model must be slightly different than mine, because mine has the little indent in the Front Bottom that the Apple has.


----------



## nc8000

Quadfather said:


> The two computers do look very similar.  This HP model must be slightly different than mine, because mine has the little indent in the Front Bottom that the Apple has.



My Dell XPS13 also looks very much like those 2 though the inside around the keyboard is black


----------



## JerryHead (Oct 2, 2020)

Redcarmoose said:


>


Which cable are using on your iems, and what exactly is it doing to the sound that you like (or don't like)?  Thanks.


----------



## Tsiklon

Does anyone know if further software enhancements are in the works for this?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Tsiklon said:


> Does anyone know if further software enhancements are in the works for this?



The updates are installers, thus not possible for modification.


----------



## der luda

I have the following question, 
please if I want to supply the TA via my DAP (Ibasso DX220), can I do that via the USB cable via USB B on the TA ... or also USB Micro on the WM connection? 
thank you for your help


----------



## nc8000

der luda said:


> I have the following question,
> please if I want to supply the TA via my DAP (Ibasso DX220), can I do that via the USB cable via USB B on the TA ... or also USB Micro on the WM connection?
> thank you for your help



You should be able to use either usb input on the TA


----------



## anayejua

@nc8000 
ask, isn't the digital coaxial output cable the better quality connection to the amp?


----------



## nc8000

anayejua said:


> @nc8000
> ask, isn't the digital coaxial output cable the better quality connection to the amp?



Don’t know as I’ve never used that connection. I use the rear usb to connect to my Auralic streamer and optical to connect to my Samsung tv


----------



## JerryHead

Anyone using an AudioQuest Carbon USB B to C cable to connect a newer Mac laptop  to the TA?  This cable wasn't cheap, and the connection to the Mac with this cable is now loose.  I found indications online that the internals of the C port on newer Macs can become loose after a while, but the Apple OE charging cable fits tight and without issue.  I'm thinking this particular AudioQuest cable isn't made to connect as securely which can become problematic after a while.  A little disappointing.


----------



## Tsiklon

JerryHead said:


> Anyone using an AudioQuest Carbon USB B to C cable to connect a newer Mac laptop  to the TA?  This cable wasn't cheap, and the connection to the Mac with this cable is now loose.  I found indications online that the internals of the C port on newer Macs can become loose after a while, but the Apple OE charging cable fits tight and without issue.  I'm thinking this particular AudioQuest cable isn't made to connect as securely which can become problematic after a while.  A little disappointing.


That sounds like a quality issue with the connector on the audioquest cable, if other cables are behaving in the fashion you expect, this is likely the case


----------



## JerryHead

Tsiklon said:


> That sounds like a quality issue with the connector on the audioquest cable, if other cables are behaving in the fashion you expect, this is likely the case


I have a feeling it has more to do with the design of the cable.  The C ports on newer Macs are known to fail, and I’m thinking this particular cable hastens along this process.


----------



## Lookout57

JerryHead said:


> I have a feeling it has more to do with the design of the cable.  The C ports on newer Macs are known to fail, and I’m thinking this particular cable hastens along this process.


I've had the USB-C ports on my 2018 MacBook Pro fail and had to have them replaced by Apple under warranty. I've also had received bad cables. The Thunderbolt cable that came with my OWC ThunderBay 4 wouldn't stay seated in my Mac mini and I would see drive disconnects randomly. Once I replaced the cable with an Apple Thurderbolt cable no more issues. So I would take it back to the dealer you bought the AQ cable from.


----------



## PaulMiami

Anyone compare the TA to the Focal Arche on Utopia?


----------



## JerryHead (Oct 14, 2020)

Lookout57 said:


> I've had the USB-C ports on my 2018 MacBook Pro fail and had to have them replaced by Apple under warranty. I've also had received bad cables. The Thunderbolt cable that came with my OWC ThunderBay 4 wouldn't stay seated in my Mac mini and I would see drive disconnects randomly. Once I replaced the cable with an Apple Thurderbolt cable no more issues. So I would take it back to the dealer you bought the AQ cable from.


Thanks, I think the cable is fine though, I think it just put's pressure on an already weak port because it doesn't fit as securely into the port as say the OE Apple charging cable.  When the connector end going into the laptop's C port is bending at an angle, say when the laptop is sitting in your lap, it pulls on the port and after time, causes it to fail.  Anyone interested in this not inexpensive USB B to C cable to use with a late model Mac should probably be aware of this issue.


----------



## JerryHead

PaulMiami said:


> Anyone compare the TA to the Focal Arche on Utopia?


I've always been a bit curious about this as well


----------



## adrianm

JerryHead said:


> I've always been a bit curious about this as well


@Gadget67 likes the Arche a lot more afaik


----------



## Gadget67

adrianm said:


> @Gadget67 likes the Arche a lot more afaik


I still own and like the TA but the dual 4490 DAC chips in the Arche produce a superior sound IMHO.  I do not, however, like the Arche single dial control and it occasionally has connectivity issues unless I use the “correct” sequence (turn on the Arche and wait for the default screen and then connect the source).  I own the Utopia and Stellia headphones and the Arche is specifically eq’d for each of Focal’s headphones.  The Focal headphones just plain sound better using the Arche.  The TA has all those nice headphone outputs and since I have a WM1Z i don’t have any connectivity issues with that source.  The Arche has XLR outputs in addition to RCA and that is just significantly better paired with my Phonitor 2.  For convenience and smoother operability the TA has the edge; if you are after cleaner, better sound results, take the Arche even with the issues I mentioned earlier.  If you already own a Focal Utopia, Stellia or Clear, you can get a $1,000 voucher from Focal so the final price is $1,500; it’s a bargain at that price.


----------



## rangerid

I got a question regarding pairing a 1z with the ta.

How does the sound differ if I were to connect it via usb vs line in with the rca? Is on preferred over the other?


----------



## Tsiklon

rangerid said:


> I got a question regarding pairing a 1z with the ta.
> 
> How does the sound differ if I were to connect it via usb vs line in with the rca? Is on preferred over the other?


Connecting the player via USB will bypass any of the processing done on the player - the player will just choose the song to play, the amplifier will handle the decode, post processing and amplification.

3.5mm -> RCA in will go through the player’s decode, post processing and amplification stages and again the amplifier’s post processing and amplification stages.

You’ll want to experiment which sounds best to you, trying out the various options available to you, though a purist may say that USB in to the amp will be the purest version possible.

Try both out! Personally I prefer using my ZX507 with the amp via USB in - the convenience is nice.


----------



## rangerid

Tsiklon said:


> Connecting the player via USB will bypass any of the processing done on the player - the player will just choose the song to play, the amplifier will handle the decode, post processing and amplification.
> 
> 3.5mm -> RCA in will go through the player’s decode, post processing and amplification stages and again the amplifier’s post processing and amplification stages.
> 
> ...



I get the part about bypassing the internal parts of the player when using usb vs rca. I guess I was still a bit confused since I've read in some posts that certain storage is superior to others and wasn't sure how that worked. 

Also, I've read some users said when connecting via usb, it's better to use the port in the back with a dock/dongle as opposed to the supplied the stock usb supplied? Also you should use an ugraded usb cable?


----------



## nc8000

Tsiklon said:


> Connecting the player via USB will bypass any of the processing done on the player - the player will just choose the song to play, the amplifier will handle the decode, post processing and amplification.
> 
> 3.5mm -> RCA in will go through the player’s decode, post processing and amplification stages and again the amplifier’s post processing and amplification stages.
> 
> ...



Analog into the TA gets converted back to digital, then processed internally and then converted back again to analog for the headphone output. I have no idea which way will sound best to you


----------



## nc8000

rangerid said:


> I get the part about bypassing the internal parts of the player when using usb vs rca. I guess I was still a bit confused since I've read in some posts that certain storage is superior to others and wasn't sure how that worked.
> 
> Also, I've read some users said when connecting via usb, it's better to use the port in the back with a dock/dongle as opposed to the supplied the stock usb supplied? Also you should use an ugraded usb cable?



Some people can hear a difference between the different digital input methods and different cables, others cant


----------



## rangerid

nc8000 said:


> Analog into the TA gets converted back to digital, then processed internally and then converted back again to analog for the headphone output. I have no idea which way will sound best to you





nc8000 said:


> Some people can hear a difference between the different digital input methods and different cables, others cant



Got it, yea guess in the end I just gotta try and experiment with different options.


----------



## tradyblix

"The Arche has XLR outputs in addition to RCA and that is just significantly better paired with my Phonitor 2"

I mean that's cool and all, but you have a 5,000 dollar stack there, so it really ought to sound better than a 2,000 dac/amp from Sony.... 

I'd be mad if it didn't lol


----------



## Redcarmoose (Nov 8, 2020)

rangerid said:


> I get the part about bypassing the internal parts of the player when using usb vs rca. I guess I was still a bit confused since I've read in some posts that certain storage is superior to others and wasn't sure how that worked.
> 
> Also, I've read some users said when connecting via usb, it's better to use the port in the back with a dock/dongle as opposed to the supplied the stock usb supplied? Also you should use an ugraded usb cable?



Using the USB adapter or The Cradle can allow the input of a few of the higher bit rate files, which the side connected DAP to the TA does not handle. There may also be slight improvement going to the rear USB with an aftermarket USB cable using the Cradle or adapter but if there is a sound improvement it’s very marginal? But I believe it’s there?  To me playing files off a smart TV going optical to the TA sounded the same? But you have a bit-rate ceiling with optical. 

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH10-Conversion-Cable-Output/dp/B00FF086HE


----------



## sebbaan

Just got this unit the other day and digging it so far. Was wondering about the clicking noise from the DAC when one is switching songs. Seems to only be on the pre-out, and only when one changes tracks manually so to speak. I saw something about this earlier in this thread but there didnt seem to be a conclusion wether this is "normal" behavior.


----------



## nc8000

sebbaan said:


> Just got this unit the other day and digging it so far. Was wondering about the clicking noise from the DAC when one is switching songs. Seems to only be on the pre-out, and only when one changes tracks manually so to speak. I saw something about this earlier in this thread but there didnt seem to be a conclusion wether this is "normal" behavior.



I expect that it is the same as in the WM1 daps where there is a mechanical click from relays when switching between the 44khz and the 48khz clock but I don’t know and it isn’t something I have noticed


----------



## JerryHead

nc8000 said:


> I expect that it is the same as in the WM1 daps where there is a mechanical click from relays when switching between the 44khz and the 48khz clock but I don’t know and it isn’t something I have noticed


I certainly haven't experienced this, switching between 44 and 48 or between any others..  I suppose it could be the MIDI from the source that is making the sound.


----------



## sebbaan (Nov 23, 2020)

What I’m talking about isn’t switching between different sample rates. The mechanical clicking comes from the dac itself even when just switching tracks within the same album.

But it’s only when using pre out. If I connect hp to the Sony directly it doesn’t do this.


----------



## SolarBeaver (Dec 4, 2020)

Hello guys!

I've been using high end DAPs from the beginning of my audioquest, starting from Hifiman HM-801, but I've never used any hi-fi DAC/AMPs for headphones and thought maybe it's the time for me to try one!

I now have Sony wm1z DAP with Sony's mdr-z1r and ier-z1r headphones/IEMs and also considering purchasing Hifiman Arya, for which I've got a good deal for.
Would jumping from wm1z to TA-ZH1ES noticeable enough in terms of SQ or is it just a slight upgrade? Maybe someone has experience with those setups and can share his thoughts on this...
I guess its worth noting than I'm more than satisfied with the performance of my current setup, but going for a new headphones with not the greatest sensitivity (90), although pretty low Ohms (35), I thought maybe I have to get some more power to drive them and my other headphones can also benefit from this...

Also are there any benefits in using wm1z as a source compared to say PC or a phone? And if so, do I just connect them via usb? And is it possible to connect the TA to smart TV (namely LG Oled C8) or Switch/PS4 and is it worth it? Does TA have some kind of bluetooth compatibility? And lastly, is this DAC suitable for gaming, especially competitive FPS, I've tried using my DAP as a DAC, but there was a significant delay, so I just bought Audeze Mobius with internal DAC/AMP for gaming, but would reconsider it if this setup (TA+Arya) will work better.

Sorry for the rant, hope someone can answer some of the questions, would greatly appreciate any help.


----------



## sebbaan

SolarBeaver said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> I've been using high end DAPs from the beginning of my audioquest, starting from Hifiman HM-801, but I've never used any hi-fi DAC/AMPs for headphones and thought maybe it's the time for me to try one!
> 
> ...



I have compared the the 1Z to the TA pretty extensively, using the mdr z1r and the audeze lcd2c. For a portable, all in one package I think that little beats the 1Z, especially paired with the z1r. But when I’m at my desk I prefer the TA.

It’s noticeably better than the 1Z, not significant, but noticeably. I think the low end hits a little harder and is better controlled. I also think that the passages where the 1Z can sound a little nervous in the highs, the TA calms everything down. But this is from A/B ing back and forth. I can easily lie an entire evening on the couch with the 1Z without missing the TA in the slightest.


----------



## SolarBeaver

sebbaan said:


> I have compared the the 1Z to the TA pretty extensively, using the mdr z1r and the audeze lcd2c. For a portable, all in one package I think that little beats the 1Z, especially paired with the z1r. But when I’m at my desk I prefer the TA.
> 
> It’s noticeably better than the 1Z, not significant, but noticeably. I think the low end hits a little harder and is better controlled. I also think that the passages where the 1Z can sound a little nervous in the highs, the TA calms everything down. But this is from A/B ing back and forth. I can easily lie an entire evening on the couch with the 1Z without missing the TA in the slightest.


Thanks a lot, that's actually calmed me and my urge for new equipment quite a bit I must say! 
Do you think 1Z will drive Arya well enough? It has 90 sensitivity and 35 impedance. Would have asked in 1z/1a thread, but it's closed for some reason...


----------



## sebbaan

SolarBeaver said:


> Thanks a lot, that's actually calmed me and my urge for new equipment quite a bit I must say!
> Do you think 1Z will drive Arya well enough? It has 90 sensitivity and 35 impedance. Would have asked in 1z/1a thread, but it's closed for some reason...




The Walkman’s don’t have that much power on tap, I don’t think it is enough to drive the Arya to its full potential. I don’t doubt that it will still sound good though.

Here is the new Walkman thread:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-new-sony-walkman-1z-1a-thread.944508/


----------



## SolarBeaver

sebbaan said:


> The Walkman’s don’t have that much power on tap, I don’t think it is enough to drive the Arya to its full potential. I don’t doubt that it will still sound good though.
> 
> Here is the new Walkman thread:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-new-sony-walkman-1z-1a-thread.944508/


Thanks a lot, that was really helpful!


----------



## sarnhelen

Does anyone have experience of using the TA-ZH with a tube amp, i.e. as a DAC - can you comment on the quality of the DAC? I'm trying to decide whether I need to buy a  DAC when my Linear tube head amp arrives or whether that would be a needless expense and feeding it from the TA-ZH would be good enough...


----------



## Gadget67

sarnhelen said:


> Does anyone have experience of using the TA-ZH with a tube amp, i.e. as a DAC - can you comment on the quality of the DAC? I'm trying to decide whether I need to buy a  DAC when my Linear tube head amp arrives or whether that would be a needless expense and feeding it from the TA-ZH would be good enough...


Well I can’t address the tube amp aspect, but I did use the TA as a DAC with my Phonitor 2 amp.  Subsequently, I purchased a Focal Arche and also used that as a DAC with the Phonitor 2.  If you are satisfied with theTA as a stand-alone amp/DAC I think you will be even happier with the TA DAC.  For me, it worked very well with my Sony WM1Z as the music source and having numerous headphone connections (balanced, 4.4, etc) was a real bonus since I could leave two or three headphones connected to be able to switch back and forth.  I’d say the Arche was a step up in terms of DAC quality and the Arche had the added advantage of balanced out to the Phonitor as opposed to RCA Only from the TA.  There are, of course, “better” DAC’s out there; I recently purchased a Chord TT2/M-Scaler combination which just blows away anything I’ve previously used—-it’s that good.  

The warmth of a tube amp will add a different feel to the listening experience.  I have a preference to the cleaner sharper edge od solid state, but that’s me.  Here are some pics:


----------



## sarnhelen

Gadget67 said:


> Well I can’t address the tube amp aspect, but I did use the TA as a DAC with my Phonitor 2 amp.  Subsequently, I purchased a Focal Arche and also used that as a DAC with the Phonitor 2.  If you are satisfied with theTA as a stand-alone amp/DAC I think you will be even happier with the TA DAC.  For me, it worked very well with my Sony WM1Z as the music source and having numerous headphone connections (balanced, 4.4, etc) was a real bonus since I could leave two or three headphones connected to be able to switch back and forth.  I’d say the Arche was a step up in terms of DAC quality and the Arche had the added advantage of balanced out to the Phonitor as opposed to RCA Only from the TA.  There are, of course, “better” DAC’s out there; I recently purchased a Chord TT2/M-Scaler combination which just blows away anything I’ve previously used—-it’s that good.
> 
> The warmth of a tube amp will add a different feel to the listening experience.  I have a preference to the cleaner sharper edge od solid state, but that’s me.  Here are some pics:


You have succeeded in making me feel restrained when I'd been feeling guilty!


----------



## Gadget67

sarnhelen said:


> You have succeeded in making me feel restrained when I'd been feeling guilty!


Don’t feel guilty; live with the TA/Tube combo for a while and enjoy the result.  They’ll get to your wallet eventually...


----------



## gsiu33

anayejua said:


> @nc8000
> ask, isn't the digital coaxial output cable the better quality connection to the amp?


I compared the optical and coaxial from my CD player to TA, I found that optical is better, not sure if the coaxial output of my CD player is not as good as the optical one.


----------



## Rndm User

What is the 3-pole mini plug x2 used for?


----------



## Tsiklon

Rndm User said:


> What is the 3-pole mini plug x2 used for?



The Sony MDR-Z7 came equipped with a 2x 3.5mm cable for balanced (this was before the 4.4mm Pentaconn was available). This ensures you can use it balanced with all of Sony’s top headphones of the last 5 years.


----------



## Rndm User

Tsiklon said:


> The Sony MDR-Z7 came equipped with a 2x 3.5mm cable for balanced (this was before the 4.4mm Pentaconn was available). This ensures you can use it balanced with all of Sony’s top headphones of the last 5 years.


Aha!


----------



## ming387

Happy New Year & Hello all TA-ZH1ES owners! 

I'm a new audio enthusiast and recently became a TA-ZH1ES owner. I like to know what music player software are you using on the PC/Windows? I have a big collection of songs on storage and am wondering what are the good desktop application to use for Hi-Res audio playback.

I like to know if there is any hearing test or something like that to test our hearing ability? Or help us identify our audio preference? I'm wondering if it makes sense to invest further in this hobby and am not sure if my ears are good enough to detect the sound variations. When can somebody be considered an audiophile? 

What is everybody thought about Sony's upcoming CES show? Will they be announcing any new audio product on Jan. 11?

Sorry for the many questions, just some thought I've been having and wanted to hear your opinions. 

Cheers to all and enjoy your weekend with good sound!


----------



## bflat

ming387 said:


> Happy New Year & Hello all TA-ZH1ES owners!
> 
> I'm a new audio enthusiast and recently became a TA-ZH1ES owner. I like to know what music player software are you using on the PC/Windows? I have a big collection of songs on storage and am wondering what are the good desktop application to use for Hi-Res audio playback.
> 
> ...



Welcome on board! You definitely want to invest in a bit perfect player. For Windows you also want to make sure you get the ASIO driver from Sony and select that as your output device for the player. Here are some options and my opinions:

Foobar2000 - it's free and fully customizable. However, it requires quite a bit of researching on setup and best sound quality.
JRiver - great player that get's updated frequently. UI has nice utility but is pretty outdated aesthetically.
Audirvana - used to be exclusive to Mac, but ported to Windows recently. Best UI IMHO and is what I use.

For the paid apps, they offer free trials so definitely try before buying.


----------



## Roland P

ming387 said:


> Happy New Year & Hello all TA-ZH1ES owners!
> 
> I'm a new audio enthusiast and recently became a TA-ZH1ES owner. I like to know what music player software are you using on the PC/Windows? I have a big collection of songs on storage and am wondering what are the good desktop application to use for Hi-Res audio playback.


 Have you tried the Sony player? https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/downloads/00016441
I used it on my PHA-3. Works fine, the only downside is that it forgets where you left when idling for a while.


----------



## ming387

Thank you @bflat & @Roland P

Yes, I've been using the Sony Music Center for PC and am seeing stability issues. It freezes/crashes often. Will try some of the suggested apps.


----------



## nc8000

ming387 said:


> Happy New Year & Hello all TA-ZH1ES owners!
> 
> I'm a new audio enthusiast and recently became a TA-ZH1ES owner. I like to know what music player software are you using on the PC/Windows? I have a big collection of songs on storage and am wondering what are the good desktop application to use for Hi-Res audio playback.
> 
> ...



I’ve for years been using foobar2000. It is free and extremely customizable but it takes time and effort to set up and the interface is old but does everything I want so I have never tried anything else


----------



## Lookout57

ming387 said:


> Happy New Year & Hello all TA-ZH1ES owners!
> 
> I'm a new audio enthusiast and recently became a TA-ZH1ES owner. I like to know what music player software are you using on the PC/Windows? I have a big collection of songs on storage and am wondering what are the good desktop application to use for Hi-Res audio playback.
> 
> ...


Audirvana on macOS


----------



## Gadget67

Lookout57 said:


> Audirvana on macOS


Absolutely agree!  There is a no hassle free trial too so no cost to try it.


----------



## Halimj7

bflat said:


> Welcome on board! You definitely want to invest in a bit perfect player. For Windows you also want to make sure you get the ASIO driver from Sony and select that as your output device for the player. Here are some options and my opinions:
> 
> Foobar2000 - it's free and fully customizable. However, it requires quite a bit of researching on setup and best sound quality.
> JRiver - great player that get's updated frequently. UI has nice utility but is pretty outdated aesthetically.
> ...



Amarra Luxe! It’s $99 one time fee but it is the best I tried so far and has Tidal, iTunes and Qobuuz interactivity.


----------



## skor

Another vote for Audirvana on MacOS.  I've used this setup for a few years now and it's been bulletproof.


----------



## nc8000

Trying to install Audirvana my Win10 machine refuses to do anything when clicking on the final download link


----------



## Gadget67

nc8000 said:


> Trying to install Audirvana my Win10 machine refuses to do anything when clicking on the final download link


Probably best to go to their support page and use the community forum link.
https://audirvana.com/support/


----------



## nc8000

Gadget67 said:


> Probably best to go to their support page and use the community forum link.
> https://audirvana.com/support/



That’s the one I’ve tried plus the one from the main page. I enter name and email and the next page pops up telling me to click if the installation don’t start automatically which it does not and clicking also does nothing. Oh well I’m happy with foobar so don’t need this, but it is a bad first experience for potential new users that the installation don’t even work


----------



## Gadget67

nc8000 said:


> That’s the one I’ve tried plus the one from the main page. I enter name and email and the next page pops up telling me to click if the installation don’t start automatically which it does not and clicking also does nothing. Oh well I’m happy with foobar so don’t need this, but it is a bad first experience for potential new users that the installation don’t even work


You aren’t the first to have installation issues with win10.  Here’s a link about that; see the reply from Damian (the developer).  
https://community.audirvana.com/t/i-want-to-try-but-not-working-on-windows-10/21127


----------



## nc8000

Gadget67 said:


> You aren’t the first to have installation issues with win10.  Here’s a link about that; see the reply from Damian (the developer).
> https://community.audirvana.com/t/i-want-to-try-but-not-working-on-windows-10/21127



Thanks. I may give that a try one day, but it certainly does not inspire confidence in the product


----------



## Gadget67 (Jan 10, 2021)

nc8000 said:


> Thanks. I may give that a try one day, but it certainly does not inspire confidence in the product


Oh, I totally agree!  I had some minor issues connecting to my library after installation (probably my own ignorance) but we aren’t all programmers so it really needs to be more “transparent” for users who aren’t computer geeks!  Very satisfied now that I’ve been using it.  I also love the Audirvana remote; I can control everything from the comfort of my listening couch.


----------



## nc8000

Gadget67 said:


> Oh, I totally agree!  I had some minor issues connecting to my library after installation (probably my own ignorance) but we aren’t all programmers so it really needs to be more “transparent” for users who aren’t computer geeks!  Very satisfied now that I’ve been using it.  I also love the Audirvana remote; I can control everything from the comfort of my listening couch.



Yes the app remote concept is great, I love it on my Auralic Aries Mini that is the source for my home rig with a 2TB ssd with all my music plus build in Tidal client all controlled from my iPhone and iPad.


----------



## Hinomotocho

nc8000 said:


> That’s the one I’ve tried plus the one from the main page. I enter name and email and the next page pops up telling me to click if the installation don’t start automatically which it does not and clicking also does nothing. Oh well I’m happy with foobar so don’t need this, but it is a bad first experience for potential new users that the installation don’t even work


Foobar has a very dated old school interface but is great to be able to install components to enable SACD/DSD playback and converting etc. Sometimes I've been tempted to get something with a more attractive UI to visually match the high quality sound but the fact Foobar does everything without fault for free wins and I've used it for years.
Audirvana claims to improve the sound? I don't know if that is through onboard sound card or also applies to external dac?


----------



## nc8000

Hinomotocho said:


> Foobar has a very dated old school interface but is great to be able to install components to enable SACD/DSD playback and converting etc. Sometimes I've been tempted to get something with a more attractive UI to visually match the high quality sound but the fact Foobar does everything without fault for free wins and I've used it for years.
> Audirvana claims to improve the sound? I don't know if that is through onboard sound card or also applies to external dac?



Indeed but all I really need gui wise is browsing by folder structure, displaying album art and meta data and playing an album end to end locally on the computer


----------



## LangPoi

Just get my TA and while I am playing with it I noticed I am on 1.0.3 firmware, is there any old version that still available? I'd like to try them out, but there are only 1.0.3 on sony website. Thanks


----------



## Redcarmoose

There is 1.00 and 1.01 I think? 1.02 has been difficult to find.


LangPoi said:


> Just get my TA and while I am playing with it I noticed I am on 1.0.3 firmware, is there any old version that still available? I'd like to try them out, but there are only 1.0.3 on sony website. Thanks


----------



## LangPoi

Redcarmoose said:


> There is 1.00 and 1.01 I think? 1.02 has been difficult to find.


Not on the website? I just found 1.0.3 firmware and 1.0.0.4 driver(For PC)


----------



## Redcarmoose

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads

Looks like only 1.00 now and 1.03?



LangPoi said:


> Not on the website? I just found 1.0.3 firmware and 1.0.0.4 driver(For PC)


----------



## LangPoi

Redcarmoose said:


> There is 1.00 and 1.01 I think? 1.02 has been difficult to find.





Redcarmoose said:


> https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads
> 
> Looks like only 1.00 now and 1.03?


That 1.0.0 is not firmware it's the PC driver.


----------



## Redcarmoose

LangPoi said:


> That 1.0.0 is not firmware it's the PC driver.



oh?


----------



## LangPoi

And I saw there is a post that shared old firmware on the old thread but both are invalid. I heard 1.0.0 is really different from 1.0.3.


----------



## Redcarmoose

They can maybe be found?

Not sure?

Mine came with 1.02? 1.03 is better I think?


----------



## LangPoi

Redcarmoose said:


> oh?


I just download the 1.0.0 driver that is installed on PC not TA


----------



## LangPoi

Redcarmoose said:


> They can maybe be found?
> 
> Not sure?
> 
> Mine came with 1.02? 1.03 is better I think?


spent 2hr on finding them while I enjoy the music, no luck. Probably need someone that has the old updater and shares it, but not even sure TA can row back firmware.


----------



## Redcarmoose

LangPoi said:


> spent 2hr on finding them while I enjoy the music, no luck. Probably need someone that has the old updater and shares it, but not even sure TA can row back firmware.



No you can, I have not but people on this thread have rolled back.


----------



## LangPoi

Redcarmoose said:


> No you can, I have not but people on this thread have rolled back.


at least half good news, now just need to find the firmware. Which I cant


----------



## Redcarmoose

LangPoi said:


> at least half good news, now just need to find the firmware. Which I cant


Well, 1.02 was slightly darker than 1.03. The thing is I maybe have only talked with one person in this thread that would also confirm that? I was on 1.02 for the longest time, then became curious what firmware I was on. Then found out 1.03 was out. I was slightly concerned bringing up (in this thread) about the 1.03 update. Meaning what would happen if someone updated then tried to roll back to 1.02, as there was no 1.02 around. The link we had for 1.02 was not working. Only one IEM really showed me how much 1.03 was different from 1.02.


----------



## LangPoi

Redcarmoose said:


> Well, 1.02 was slightly darker than 1.03. The thing is I maybe have only talked with one person in this thread that would also confirm that? I was on 1.02 for the longest time, then became curious what firmware I was on. Then found out 1.03 was out. I was slightly concerned bringing up (in this thread) about the 1.03 update. Meaning what would happen if someone updated then tried to roll back to 1.02, as there was no 1.02 around. The link we had for 1.02 was not working. Only one IEM really showed me how much 1.03 was different from 1.02.


I am actually really curious about 1.0.1, 1.0.0 to be exact, but there are no 1.0.0 for sure as they were preinstalled on the earliest unit, From what I read 1.0.0 has a better sound stage and a little bit more bass but better separation overall. Not sure if they are true, but why not give it a try


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jan 16, 2021)

LangPoi said:


> I am actually really curious about 1.0.1, 1.0.0 to be exact, but there are no 1.0.0 for sure as they were preinstalled on the earliest unit, From what I read 1.0.0 has a better sound stage and a little bit more bass but better separation overall. Not sure if they are true, but why not give it a try


Well to me the two Walkmans, the 1A and 1Z slowly became more mid-centric as Sony made firmware changes as the years went on. Upon purchase I was downloading and installing 2.00 before my Walkmans were even fully burned-in. What I seemed to notice was Sony was slowly migrating away from slower tube like slower tone to faster more detailed tone. The migration to 2.00 in the Walkmans to 3.01 and 3.02 would then show a continuation in that same direction. So it makes sense that the TA firmware would move that way too.


After using the TA, I actually felt (IMO) it was darker than the Walkmans then went more in line with the Walkman sound after 1.03.


----------



## LangPoi

Redcarmoose said:


> Well to me the two Walkmans, the 1A and 1Z slowly became more mid-centric as Sony made firmware changes as the years went on. Upon purchase I was downloading and installing 2.00 before my Walkmans were even fully burned-in. What I seemed to notice was Sony was slowly migrating away from slower tube like slower tone to faster more detailed tone. The migration to 2.00 in the Walkmans to 3.01 and 3.02 would then show a continuation in that same direction. So it makes sense that the TA firmware would move that way too.
> 
> 
> After using the TA, I actually felt (IMO) it was darker than the Walkmans then went more in line with the Walkman sound after 1.03.


Well, the main reason I like to try the older version is I feel like my mdr-z1r did not do very well on the bass mid separation, also vocal kind of muddy. I don't know how to explain that but the sound overall is kind of closed up. which is bit different from what I heard on DMP-Z1. Using high gain helps a bit, but I don't think Z1R needs high gain? Maybe the hp still needs break in( around 50hr) or I need the sony kimber?(I used sony kimber with Z1).


----------



## Redcarmoose

LangPoi said:


> Well, the main reason I like to try the older version is I feel like my mdr-z1r did not do very well on the bass mid separation, also vocal kind of muddy. I don't know how to explain that but the sound overall is kind of closed up. which is bit different from what I heard on DMP-Z1. Using high gain helps a bit, but I don't think Z1R needs high gain? Maybe the hp still needs break in( around 50hr) or I need the sony kimber?(I used sony kimber with Z1).



Well, cables can be controversial. But.....my MDR-Z1R came with the Kimber as a gift and I’m totally glad it came with it. To me the Kimber totally cleans up the bass “fog”. I recommend it wholeheartedly! After getting aquatinted with the Kimber then going back to stock cables it was like “why”? Why would they have such a bad sounding cable with a TOTL flagship headphone?


----------



## ming387

Hope everybody is having a good weekend.

I just got the TA-ZH1ES recently and am enjoying it with 4.4mm cabled MDR-Z1R. I currently have the volume set at -18.5 dB and had to turn the volume knob for a bit before I felt it was loud enough... 

I like to know what volume level are you listening to?


----------



## Lookout57

ming387 said:


> Hope everybody is having a good weekend.
> 
> I just got the TA-ZH1ES recently and am enjoying it with 4.4mm cabled MDR-Z1R. I currently have the volume set at -18.5 dB and had to turn the volume knob for a bit before I felt it was loud enough...
> 
> I like to know what volume level are you listening to?


Typically -25.0


----------



## bvhme

ming387 said:


> Hope everybody is having a good weekend.
> 
> I just got the TA-ZH1ES recently and am enjoying it with 4.4mm cabled MDR-Z1R. I currently have the volume set at -18.5 dB and had to turn the volume knob for a bit before I felt it was loud enough...
> 
> I like to know what volume level are you listening to?



I'm currently listening to the Sony MDR-Z1R at -55.0dB on High gain. However I find it varies wildly what music I'm listening to where I listen.


----------



## nc8000

With the MDR-Z1R I’m usually on -30dB low gain


----------



## 52203

Anyone tried to drive Beyer T1 1st (600 ohm) with this Sony machine?


----------



## RYCeT

ming387 said:


> Hope everybody is having a good weekend.
> 
> I just got the TA-ZH1ES recently and am enjoying it with 4.4mm cabled MDR-Z1R. I currently have the volume set at -18.5 dB and had to turn the volume knob for a bit before I felt it was loud enough...
> 
> I like to know what volume level are you listening to?



Z1R, low gain around -40db.


----------



## sebbaan

ming387 said:


> Hope everybody is having a good weekend.
> 
> I just got the TA-ZH1ES recently and am enjoying it with 4.4mm cabled MDR-Z1R. I currently have the volume set at -18.5 dB and had to turn the volume knob for a bit before I felt it was loud enough...
> 
> I like to know what volume level are you listening to?



-25 to -30 low gain


----------



## RYCeT

Wow, how loud is the noise around you guys to use it more than -30? -35 low gain is the loudest I can stand with Z1R.


----------



## ming387

@RYCeT  I'm not trying to cancel out noise by bringing up the volume. I just enjoy it more when it's louder for me. Maybe my hearing is just deteriorating...


----------



## sebbaan (Jan 22, 2021)

I have recently found though, before I had to get rid of the Z1R, that it is actually a very good performer on low volume levels. My experience is otherwise that many headphones need volume to come alive. The Z1R is almost the opposite, sounds very good and keeps its dynamics even on lower volume. At least on the ZH1ES.


----------



## sebbaan

Just wanted to capture and share the beautiful morning light we have today here in cold Sweden.


----------



## Quadfather (Jan 31, 2021)

sebbaan said:


> I have recently found though, before I had to get rid of the Z1R, that it is actually a very good performer on low volume levels. My experience is otherwise that many headphones need volume to come alive. The Z1R is almost the opposite, sounds very good and keeps its dynamics even on lower volume. At least on the ZH1ES.




My Shure SRH1540 headphones are definitely way better at lower volumes.  I don't listen loudly, because I love my hearing.  This has me very interested in the Z1R headphones.


----------



## Richard Wray

Hi all,

Can anyone out there answer my question?  Is it correct that the TA cannot decode MQA from Tidal?  I'm looking to upgrade my home set up and primarily listen via Tidal.  I did read that Sony would add MQA to the TA but cannot find anything to say they have.

I'm not looking for comments on if MQA works or not (that's a whole different thread  )

Thanks in advance.

Richard


----------



## bflat

Richard Wray said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Can anyone out there answer my question?  Is it correct that the TA cannot decode MQA from Tidal?  I'm looking to upgrade my home set up and primarily listen via Tidal.  I did read that Sony would add MQA to the TA but cannot find anything to say they have.
> 
> ...



No, TA does not have hardware MQA decoder. Tidal will still play, but only at the minimum unfold (software decoding).


----------



## Richard Wray

bflat said:


> No, TA does not have hardware MQA decoder. Tidal will still play, but only at the minimum unfold (software decoding).


That's a pity.  I'm listening via a Sony ZX507 and loving it.  Any rumours on a TA replacement that does?


----------



## bflat

Richard Wray said:


> That's a pity.  I'm listening via a Sony ZX507 and loving it.  Any rumours on a TA replacement that does?



I wouldn't hold my breadth. Sony is not a fan of MQA.


----------



## Richard Wray

bflat said:


> I wouldn't hold my breadth. Sony is not a fan of MQA.


Is that right?

https://www.hiresaudio.online/sony-unveils-streaming-and-mqa-compatible-walkmans/


----------



## bflat

Richard Wray said:


> Is that right?
> 
> https://www.hiresaudio.online/sony-unveils-streaming-and-mqa-compatible-walkmans/



Sony Walkman is a separate division from TA. If you want the highest quality Walkman with MQA look into the DMP-Z1.


----------



## Richard Wray

bflat said:


> Sony Walkman is a separate division from TA. If you want the highest quality Walkman with MQA look into the DMP-Z1.


Pushing my limit with the TA, let alone something that costs four times as much.  

Sony is a crazy company.  So much division between their devisions (this may not come as news to many of you)


----------



## gsiu33

LangPoi said:


> Well, the main reason I like to try the older version is I feel like my mdr-z1r did not do very well on the bass mid separation, also vocal kind of muddy. I don't know how to explain that but the sound overall is kind of closed up. which is bit different from what I heard on DMP-Z1. Using high gain helps a bit, but I don't think Z1R needs high gain? Maybe the hp still needs break in( around 50hr) or I need the sony kimber?(I used sony kimber with Z1).


Indeed Z1R sounds difference driven by TA-ZH1ES and DMP-Z1. With DMP-Z1, separation is better, have a quiet background and more magnetic vocal.


----------



## tradyblix (Feb 14, 2021)

Richard Wray said:


> That's a pity.  I'm listening via a Sony ZX507 and loving it.  Any rumours on a TA replacement that does?



Just unfold MQA in software and output that to the TA.  You won't get the so called "second unfold" but honestly it's really an ultra tiny, imperceptible difference.

To not pick an amp based on all the work that's gone into it's chassis design, power design, circuit board, dac, and components and instead discard it because you want
a device that supports a money-making scheme for compressing high res audio - it doesn't really make a WHOLE lot of sense.

Consider this - the first unfold of MQA from tidal, in software, gives you 24/96 out and then you're gonna use the TA to oversample it in hardware to DSD anyway because that is the main feature of this device.

Who cares if it has full MQA support ? It's not a DAP where you have less good software options. You can use Audirvana or Roon or whatever and a far more powerful CPU on your machine to do the MQA 1st unfold and get most of the benefits, which are, let's be frank, minimal anyway - some albums that are 16/44.1 sound better than their 24/96 counterparts anyway because of the way they were recorded, the mastering process, the studio equipment used, etc.

MQA is highly overrated. There's no MQA on any vinyl albums for example. Does that mean they're not listenable ? There's no MQA on Qobuz. Does that mean it's worthless ? Marketing....


----------



## Richard Wray

tradyblix said:


> Just unfold MQA in software and output that to the TA.  You won't get the so called "second unfold" but honestly it's really an ultra tiny, imperceptible difference.
> 
> To not pick an amp based on all the work that's gone into it's chassis design, power design, circuit board, dac, and components and instead discard it because you want
> a device that supports a money-making scheme for compressing high res audio - it doesn't really make a WHOLE lot of sense.
> ...



Fair point


----------



## Richard Wray

Hi all,

I'm considering buying the TA-Z and have a ZX-507 as a source.  Unlike the previous ZX-300 it does not have the propriety Walkman connector.  I'm assuming I could go via the USB C but that would rob it of a power supply.  Would connecting via the balanced output work or not do the end to end chain justice?


----------



## nc8000

Richard Wray said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm considering buying the TA-Z and have a ZX-507 as a source.  Unlike the previous ZX-300 it does not have the propriety Walkman connector.  I'm assuming I could go via the USB C but that would rob it of a power supply.  Would connecting via the balanced output work or not do the end to end chain justice?



The balanced output would not work as the TA don’t have balanced input


----------



## bvhme

Richard Wray said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm considering buying the TA-Z and have a ZX-507 as a source.  Unlike the previous ZX-300 it does not have the propriety Walkman connector.  I'm assuming I could go via the USB C but that would rob it of a power supply.  Would connecting via the balanced output work or not do the end to end chain justice?



The Walkman input is just an USB micro B plug. I've tried connecting my Android phone to it and was able to play music over the TA-ZH1ES.


----------



## Richard Wray

nc8000 said:


> The balanced output would not work as the TA don’t have balanced input



That's what I thought.  Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Richard Wray

bvhme said:


> The Walkman input is just an USB micro B plug. I've tried connecting my Android phone to it and was able to play music over the TA-ZH1ES.



Thanks.  Did it provide power back into the phone?  The ZX507 has a shockingly bad battery so it would need it.


----------



## nc8000

Richard Wray said:


> Thanks.  Did it provide power back into the phone?  The ZX507 has a shockingly bad battery so it would need it.



As I understand it the side connection on the TA is a proprietary combi plug that consists of a microUSB for data transfer and then a seperate plug that provides power to the Walkman


----------



## Roland P

Richard Wray said:


> Thanks.  Did it provide power back into the phone?  The ZX507 has a shockingly bad battery so it would need it.


I think it's weird that Sony didn't think of this. When you use your ZX507 with your TA (or any of the external amps) you're required to constantly plug/unplug the device and charge it. I had this problem with my ZX1 and PHA-3 so I bought the BCR-NWH10 cradle (wm-port...), problem solved.
The new Android daps (zx507/a105) clearly aren't made for these situations, which is sad.

HAP-S1 might work though, since it has Spotify Connect, and connects to usb dacs, so that's the only streaming Sony device that connects to a power supply and a dac at the same time?


----------



## bvhme

Roland P said:


> I think it's weird that Sony didn't think of this. When you use your ZX507 with your TA (or any of the external amps) you're required to constantly plug/unplug the device and charge it. I had this problem with my ZX1 and PHA-3 so I bought the BCR-NWH10 cradle (wm-port...), problem solved.
> The new Android daps (zx507/a105) clearly aren't made for these situations, which is sad.
> 
> HAP-S1 might work though, since it has Spotify Connect, and connects to usb dacs, so that's the only streaming Sony device that connects to a power supply and a dac at the same time?



They thought about it for Walkmans. However I think that the USB A/B standards allow only one directional power flow, from the host to the client, and the port on the amplifier is a client port. USB-C probably wasn't really a thing back then.

I am happy they decided to go for a common standard with an additional thingy next to it instead of completely inventing something new.


----------



## Richard Wray

nc8000 said:


> The balanced output would not work as the TA don’t have balanced ok





nc8000 said:


> The balanced output would not work as the TA don’t have balanced input


Can I run a 4.4mm balanced cable (from the zx507's output) into the phono inputs at the back?

Would there be any benefit?


----------



## nc8000 (Feb 21, 2021)

Richard Wray said:


> Can I run a 4.4mm balanced cable (from the zx507's output) into the phono inputs at the back?
> 
> Would there be any benefit?



No as the phono input is single ended


----------



## hdemico

Anybody had ever compared, using the TA as preamp, the pre-out output with the headphones unbalanced output(connected directly to the power amp)? Anybody know the internal differences in the circuit ?


----------



## squadgazzz

Why there are no reviews in Head Gear section?
Does this dac/amp suitable with sensitive Campfire Audio's IEMs?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Never heard a pep out of it. It perfect, but have not tried CA.


----------



## nc8000

squadgazzz said:


> Why there are no reviews in Head Gear section?
> Does this dac/amp suitable with sensitive Campfire Audio's IEMs?



Probably because nobody have ever made one.
No idea about how it works with CA iems but it works great with my IER-Z1R and JH13 though I primarily use it with MDR-Z1R


----------



## Damz87

squadgazzz said:


> Why there are no reviews in Head Gear section?
> Does this dac/amp suitable with sensitive Campfire Audio's IEMs?


CA IEM’s do not hiss at all with TA, however the output impedance is on the high side so you will lose a fair bit of bass quantity from the likes of Andromeda and/or Solaris.


----------



## squadgazzz

Damz87 said:


> CA IEM’s do not hiss at all with TA, however the output impedance is on the high side so you will lose a fair bit of bass quantity from the likes of Andromeda and/or Solaris.


Thanks! But how does bass quantity connect with output impedance?


----------



## nc8000

squadgazzz said:


> Thanks! But how does bass quantity connect with output impedance?



There has to be a match between output impedance on the amp and the headphone. Especially on multi unit balanced armature in ears a high output impedance will skew the frequency response on the headphone


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## kefs

Hi all, im a frequent headfier, i just purchased a TA- Z1HES intending to use with my Z1R's. Firstly can i use my LG V60 into the micro usb/ walkman port?
Secondly i have all my FLAC files on a pc using Media Center 27. Which will be the best way to connect? (I use an ASUS Essence STX 2 soundcard)
Many thanks in advance


----------



## Redcarmoose

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sony-dac-headphone-amplifier-ta-zh1es.22253/reviews#review-25441


----------



## kefs

bvhme said:


> The Walkman input is just an USB micro B plug. I've tried connecting my Android phone to it and was able to play music over the TA-ZH1ES.


How were the results using your phone?
Im not clear as to do this or use the micro usb b on the rear. Any help will be much appreciated (i will purchase a single purpose cable depending on the best outcome)


----------



## Lookout57

kefs said:


> How were the results using your phone?
> Im not clear as to do this or use the micro usb b on the rear. Any help will be much appreciated (i will purchase a single purpose cable depending on the best outcome)


The USB-B on the back supports higher sample rates than the Walkman micro-USB on the side.


----------



## MrWalkman

For anyone interested, the TA-ZH1ES service manual.


----------



## MrWalkman (Mar 7, 2021)

So the FPGA inside is EP4CE55U19I7N, which is one made by Intel.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Our little amp on the front page.


----------



## kefs

What does anyone use to stop dust entering the mesh on the top ?
I will go crazy if i get any in there (and no i'm not ocd)😁


----------



## Redcarmoose

kefs said:


> What does anyone use to stop dust entering the mesh on the top ?
> I will go crazy if i get any in there (and no i'm not ocd)😁


I keep a small cloth over it 100% of time when not in use.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> I keep a small cloth over it 100% of time when not in use.


I better do that right now. Thanks for the tip


----------



## bvhme

Is there anyone here that has tried the Meze Empyrean with the TA-ZH1ES?

I'm considering getting one as it is such a beautiful thing and I hear it complements the MDR-Z1R, however I'm a bit worried about the amp synergy.


----------



## kefs

My first listen, absolutely sublime. If i had to use one word, it would be 'textured', everything has a feeling to it, bass strings are the most obvious. This is going to be a VERY late night !


----------



## Richard Wray

Can anyone comments on the reliability of the TA?

I've found one that is a great deal, but it's warranty expires in May.

Does anyone know if Sony offer extended warranty for a price?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Contact Sony regarding the extended warranty. As far as reliability? It's gem. Very stable and wonderful.


----------



## nc8000

Richard Wray said:


> Can anyone comments on the reliability of the TA?
> 
> I've found one that is a great deal, but it's warranty expires in May.
> 
> Does anyone know if Sony offer extended warranty for a price?


I’ve certainly had no problems after 4 years of nearly daily use


----------



## Divine Fang

Hi all, just got my TA yay! I find the supplied walkman cable is just too short, is there a longer one sold separately? I do not mind third party cable. Thanks!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Divine Fang said:


> Hi all, just got my TA yay! I find the supplied walkman cable is just too short, is there a longer one sold separately? I do not mind third party cable. Thanks!


Congratulations.
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH10-Conversion-Cable-Output/dp/B00FF086HE





This is the way to ether go to the back USB, or take any USB (don’t know the letter C?) and hook to the side.


----------



## Divine Fang

Redcarmoose said:


> Congratulations.
> https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH10-Conversion-Cable-Output/dp/B00FF086HE
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you!


----------



## rohit8

I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on a TA-ZH1ES since my FiiO K5Pro is struggling, and is at 75% volume at high gain. Has anyone found a better DAC/AMP in terms of sound quality as an alternative to the TA-ZH1ES to drive their Z1Rs?


----------



## VladYR

Richard Wray said:


> Can anyone comments on the reliability of the TA?
> 
> I've found one that is a great deal, but it's warranty expires in May.
> 
> Does anyone know if Sony offer extended warranty for a price?


I’ve had mine since 2018 and it hasn’t given me any trouble at all. I often use it to burn in new interconnect cables and headphones, leaving it on for 12 to 14 hours per day. All it really needs is good ventilation, particularly during the summer months. During the fall to spring months it barely gets warm after extended use. Depending on the price, I wouldn’t really be concerned about warranty as Sony products are very reliable.


----------



## VladYR (Mar 22, 2021)

rohit8 said:


> I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on a TA-ZH1ES since my FiiO K5Pro is struggling, and is at 75% volume at high gain. Has anyone found a better DAC/AMP in terms of sound quality as an alternative to the TA-ZH1ES to drive their Z1Rs?


Sure. Chord Dave sounds magnificent if the price is not a consideration 🤣🤣🤣. You won’t even miss the balanced output of the Sony amp. It is really that good even though it’s single ended. The low end on Chord is really insane compared to Sony. On -20dB low gain Sony can be relatively loud. Bass is nice and hard hitting depending on interconnects and power cables and the music choices, of course. On the Dave you actually feel the bass at the same volume levels; your ears get quite a massage without even a hint of distortion. Whether all of that is worth almost $11000 is a personal choice.

Here’s a really funny side note. Before fully settling on the Chord Dave I went to a local shop to check out a DCS Bartok, which I’ve been mildly obsessing  about after a friend mentioned it to me a year ago at Christmas party at our mutual friend’s place who sells really high end hi fi. It was a real disappointment. The Bartok sounded practically mechanical. There was no excitement in the music. At almost $18000 you tend to expect a lot. At $10900 Chord Dave is practically a bargain in comparison while sounding leaps and bounds better while taking up a lot less space.

In any case, try out the TA or anything else that you are considering before buying. Some things can be a real disappointment or a pleasant surprise. Some places even let you take it home for a few days. Home trials are best as you are getting exactly what you’d be keeping as opposed to some dealers hooking up those pieces of equipment with high end cables that drastically improve sound quality that you simply won’t recognize at home with stock cables.


----------



## gsiu33

hdemico said:


> Anybody had ever compared, using the TA as preamp, the pre-out output with the headphones unbalanced output(connected directly to the power amp)? Anybody know the internal differences in the circuit ?


I  have using TA as a DAC+Preamp in my main speaker system for 2+ years, playing red book CD with Wadia 861se and hi-res with AK240. The sound is pretty good. Never consider to use the unbalanced headphone output in the front to amp as the pre-out is good enough, and the connection is more easy.


----------



## PointyFox

Does anyone know why my PC volume control won't change the volume on the line-out when connected to the TA-ZH1ES via USB but will when connected via optical?


----------



## bvhme

bvhme said:


> Is there anyone here that has tried the Meze Empyrean with the TA-ZH1ES?
> 
> I'm considering getting one as it is such a beautiful thing and I hear it complements the MDR-Z1R, however I'm a bit worried about the amp synergy.



To answer my own question here. It is spectacular! Holy moly. The Empyreans are headphones that just sound amazing with everything, whilst also scaling insanely well. The Empy and Taz together is a very, very addictive combination. 

And to the second part. I think the Empyreans are an amazing companion to my MDR-Z1R. They have a bit of a similar sound signature whilst being different enough, are both incredible pieces of design, very well build and very good.

I'm in heaven right now I think. However, I fear for my sleep.


----------



## VladYR

bvhme said:


> To answer my own question here. It is spectacular! Holy moly. The Empyreans are headphones that just sound amazing with everything, whilst also scaling insanely well. The Empy and Taz together is a very, very addictive combination.
> 
> And to the second part. I think the Empyreans are an amazing companion to my MDR-Z1R. They have a bit of a similar sound signature whilst being different enough, are both incredible pieces of design, very well build and very good.
> 
> I'm in heaven right now I think. However, I fear for my sleep.


Yep, you definitely found a very good pairing. Empyreans tend to pair well with quality streamers/headphone amps. The only one I absolutely hated was Dcs Bartok despite its eye watering price tag. The sound was boring. Everything was there but musicality and excitement. I said something along those lines but with considerably more tact to a guy who was demoing it for me at a local Hi fi shop. He was taken aback somewhat. Another dealer who heard it before and decided not to stock it confirmed my opinion. 

By the way, what’s your source for the Sony amp? It tends to perform a lot better through digital inputs rather than line in inputs. Those aren’t bad by any means but digital seems to produce better sound.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Richard Wray said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm considering buying the TA-Z and have a ZX-507 as a source.  Unlike the previous ZX-300 it does not have the propriety Walkman connector.  I'm assuming I could go via the USB C but that would rob it of a power supply.  Would connecting via the balanced output work or not do the end to end chain justice?


Going to this user's question, how about connecting his 507 from USB-C to USB-A at the back of the TA? Does that work?


----------



## VladYR

Gamerlingual said:


> Going to this user's question, how about connecting his 507 from USB-C to USB-A at the back of the TA? Does that work?


That ought to work but it would have to be USB C to USB B since the latter is the type of the USB on the back. Alternatively, the side port could be used also. It’s a micro usb. I routinely connected an iPhone that way through a camera adapter when I didn’t feel like turning on my computer.


----------



## Richard Wray

VladYR said:


> That ought to work but it would have to be USB C to USB B since the latter is the type of the USB on the back. Alternatively, the side port could be used also. It’s a micro usb. I routinely connected an iPhone that way through a camera adapter when I didn’t feel like turning on my computer.



Hi all

The point of the connection is also to charge whilst connected to the TAS.

The 507 has a terrible battery life.


----------



## nc8000

Richard Wray said:


> Hi all
> 
> The point of the connection is also to charge whilst connected to the TAS.
> 
> The 507 has a terrible battery life.


You cant use the 4.4 as a line out to the TA as it only has single ended input so it would have to be from the 3.5


----------



## VladYR

Neither of those ports would charge a Walkman. Those are just data ports without a power line. It was part of the design to minimize electrical noise.


----------



## nc8000

VladYR said:


> Neither of those ports would charge a Walkman. Those are just data ports without a power line. It was part of the design to minimize electrical noise.


The Walkman port on the side does charge but only with the supplied WM port cable for Sony WM port devices


----------



## bvhme

VladYR said:


> Yep, you definitely found a very good pairing. Empyreans tend to pair well with quality streamers/headphone amps. The only one I absolutely hated was Dcs Bartok despite its eye watering price tag. The sound was boring. Everything was there but musicality and excitement. I said something along those lines but with considerably more tact to a guy who was demoing it for me at a local Hi fi shop. He was taken aback somewhat. Another dealer who heard it before and decided not to stock it confirmed my opinion.
> 
> By the way, what’s your source for the Sony amp? It tends to perform a lot better through digital inputs rather than line in inputs. Those aren’t bad by any means but digital seems to produce better sound.



I'm using digital sources, preferably directly from my PC, however the detection seems finicky and often the device is not recognized. As a backup for those situations I use the optical out on my screen which only does 58k for some reason. I don't really have a use for the analog inputs expect when I want to get feedback from my USB mic.

All the features and all the sound this thing has


----------



## Richard Wray

Has anyone hooked up the Audeze XC to the Taz?

On the verge of buying both


----------



## Richard Wray

So the TAZ is getting on for five years old now.

Is there any news of a successor?

I’m about to pull the trigger on one but would hate to see a new version in six months.


----------



## Tsiklon

Richard Wray said:


> So the TAZ is getting on for five years old now.
> 
> Is there any news of a successor?
> 
> I’m about to pull the trigger on one but would hate to see a new version in six months.



If one were to come out tomorrow what features or improvements would you like to see on it?

The things I’d like added to it are a couple more analog inputs or a Bluetooth receiver module, and a dedicated phono in. None of these are dealbreaker for me personally


----------



## Richard Wray

Tsiklon said:


> If one were to come out tomorrow what features or improvements would you like to see on it?
> 
> The things I’d like added to it are a couple more analog inputs or a Bluetooth receiver module, and a dedicated phono in. None of these are dealbreaker for me personally



That’s a great question.  MQA is on my list.  I have the Sony ZX507 and that has it.

Beyond that, it’s really just FOMO.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Tsiklon said:


> If one were to come out tomorrow what features or improvements would you like to see on it?
> 
> The things I’d like added to it are a couple more analog inputs or a Bluetooth receiver module, and a dedicated phono in. None of these are dealbreaker for me personally


Nothing, it’s perfect.


----------



## VladYR

Adding analog inputs to it is not particularly useful since those would be converted to digital anyway. On the other hand, MQA support would be nice but it wouldn’t be a reason for me to upgrade. Bluetooth support seems kind of pointless, even at AptX.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Nothing, it’s perfect.


Seconded. Plus our DAPs have Bluetooth


----------



## Richard Wray

Gamerlingual said:


> Seconded. Plus our DAPs have Bluetooth



Geez!  I’ve opened a can of worms here!


----------



## Gamerlingual

Richard Wray said:


> Geez!  I’ve opened a can of worms here!


I just love it. No harm, no foul


----------



## Tsiklon

Actually one quality of life improvement I should have mentioned would be USB-C ports instead of USB-B on the back and Micro-USB on the side, with the option to choose to charge the ZX507 (et al) from it would be a tremendous convenience, if there is any plans for a new model.


----------



## VladYR

Tsiklon said:


> Actually one quality of life improvement I should have mentioned would be USB-C ports instead of USB-B on the back and Micro-USB on the side, with the option to choose to charge the ZX507 (et al) from it would be a tremendous convenience, if there is any plans for a new model.


UBC-C would definitely be a big plus given that a lot of new devices have it. However, for that to be a meaningful change, premium cable makers like Nordost and ones like it would need to make cables with that termination. Although Nordost does make a cable like it (Frey 2) it’s not exactly a top of the line cable compared to something like Tyr 2 or Valhalla 2.


----------



## gsiu33

rohit8 said:


> I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on a TA-ZH1ES since my FiiO K5Pro is struggling, and is at 75% volume at high gain. Has anyone found a better DAC/AMP in terms of sound quality as an alternative to the TA-ZH1ES to drive their Z1Rs?


I am using DMP-Z1 to drive Z1R after using TA-ZH1ES for 2 years. DMP-Z1 has better sound stage, have a very dark background, better bass control. Of course if you don’t mind to pay the premium. 😊


----------



## VladYR

gsiu33 said:


> I am using DMP-Z1 to drive Z1R after using TA-ZH1ES for 2 years. DMP-Z1 has better sound stage, have a very dark background, better bass control. Of course if you don’t mind to pay the premium. 😊


Is the price difference warranted by the difference in performance between the two devices? I was considering buying the DMP-Z1 but since none of the dealers nearby had one on demo, I went with Chord Dave instead.


----------



## gsiu33

VladYR said:


> Is the price difference warranted by the difference in performance between the two devices? I was considering buying the DMP-Z1 but since none of the dealers nearby had one on demo, I went with Chord Dave instead


At that time I also asked myself why I need a DMP-Z1 if I already have TA-ZH1ES. I try the DMP-Z1 in Sony Demo room with MDR-Z1R in both power mode and battery mode for several times. In power mode, DMP-Z1 outperform TA-ZH1ES, may be 10%, but it is really good in battery mode, particular the sound stage, quiet background, separation and vocal.

There are addtionla incentives made me to go for DMP-Z1. Firstly I would like to play hi-res in the main speaker system, so no need to re-sell TA-ZH1ES. I can move around in my house with DMP-Z1. Also I got a pretty good price on DMP-Z1. BTW, Dave is more expensive.


----------



## VladYR

The portability factor was one of the many things that made DMP-Z1 quite attractive. The thing that made me somewhat hesitant was a lack of USB-B connector on the back and the way that music was controlled on that relatively small screen. Although USB-C has its advantages, the cable maker of my choice doesn’t produce cables with that termination of sufficiently high quality. I was likely going to use it as a Roon end point or with Audirvana since both have a really nice user interface. I tend to trust Sony when it comes to sound quality but one afternoon with Chord Dave was enough to convince me. It sounds fantastic with either Naim or Linn streamers. M Scaler is definitely the next thing on the shopping list. It’s going to be interesting how all of this will sound with the Z1Rs. I only listened to Dave with Meze Empyrean. The burn in period on this thing is substantial at 200 hours.


----------



## gsiu33

VladYR said:


> The portability factor was one of the many things that made DMP-Z1 quite attractive. The thing that made me somewhat hesitant was a lack of USB-B connector on the back and the way that music was controlled on that relatively small screen. Although USB-C has its advantages, the cable maker of my choice doesn’t produce cables with that termination of sufficiently high quality. I was likely going to use it as a Roon end point or with Audirvana since both have a really nice user interface. I tend to trust Sony when it comes to sound quality but one afternoon with Chord Dave was enough to convince me. It sounds fantastic with either Naim or Linn streamers. M Scaler is definitely the next thing on the shopping list. It’s going to be interesting how all of this will sound with the Z1Rs. I only listened to Dave with Meze Empyrean. The burn in period on this thing is substantial at 200 hours.


I never use streaming. I have large amount of redbook FLAC, hi-res FLAC and DSD music, so DMP-Z1 all-in-one is good for me.


----------



## VladYR

I stream occasionally. Most of my collection is on an SSD. The lack of desired usb termination wouldn’t have been a problem if I didn’t jump from one album to another frequently. Doing that on any of the Walkman players isn’t much fun.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Can anyone recommend what song to purchase to really demo everything? I compared the TA at E-Earphone using my cradle and Carbon cable plus my 1Z vs the DMP-Z1 and also brought my MDR-Z1R but could hardly tell a difference. I also brought my 1A and I can see how the sound stage and imaging on the DMP and TA are better. So my ears can find differences from sources. But the TA vs DMP was just too close to call


----------



## VladYR

Gamerlingual said:


> Can anyone recommend what song to purchase to really demo everything? I compared the TA at E-Earphone using my cradle and Carbon cable plus my 1Z vs the DMP-Z1 and also brought my MDR-Z1R but could hardly tell a difference. I also brought my 1A and I can see how the sound stage and imaging on the DMP and TA are better. So my ears can find differences from sources. But the TA vs DMP was just too close to call


That’s a tough one. I doubt that a single song could be used as a reliable test of different aspects. I tend to use a fairly expansive playlist to test audio equipment. I’d suggest making a list of songs/compositions that you are very familiar with and use it in your tests. Differences in equipment ought to become apparent.


----------



## Gamerlingual

VladYR said:


> That’s a tough one. I doubt that a single song could be used as a reliable test of different aspects. I tend to use a fairly expansive playlist to test audio equipment. I’d suggest making a list of songs/compositions that you are very familiar with and use it in your tests. Differences in equipment ought to become apparent.


I did a song list of 23 with different genres and it was still tough to figure out. Guess if my ears are that happy with the TA, Cradle, MDR, Carbon combo, then I should be considered go to go. The 1Z perhaps would be my all in one. The DMP is truly special in its own, but if my ears can’t find the difference, my mind is asking why spend even 550,000 yen on it (as an example). The TA has been really good with my Focal Clear and IER-Z1R as well.


----------



## gsiu33

VladYR said:


> I stream occasionally. Most of my collection is on an SSD. The lack of desired usb termination wouldn’t have been a problem if I didn’t jump from one album to another frequently. Doing that on any of the Walkman players isn’t much fun.


I am lazy. I used to listen from track 1 and to the end of an album. 😬


----------



## VladYR

Gamerlingual said:


> I did a song list of 23 with different genres and it was still tough to figure out. Guess if my ears are that happy with the TA, Cradle, MDR, Carbon combo, then I should be considered go to go. The 1Z perhaps would be my all in one. The DMP is truly special in its own, but if my ears can’t find the difference, my mind is asking why spend even 550,000 yen on it (as an example). The TA has been really good with my Focal Clear and IER-Z1R as well.


23 might be a little much. For me, the difference has to be substantial to the point where I don’t have to do analytical listening to spot the changes between what I have and what has been put in its place in the sound chain. And you are right on the last point; why spend that money if your ears can’t find the difference or if it’s relatively small. I know that this hobby is often about diminishing returns and all and a good deal of subjectivism but we have to be a bit more rational about it.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Could the TA and DMP actually lower more in their respective price brackets in the future, whether used market or not?


----------



## VladYR

While I haven’t seen any used DMP-Z1s for sale, you can easily find a used TA cheaply. After all, it’s a little over $2000 new. Oftentimes some retailers list them as open box items with generous discounts. I got mine back in 2018 for $1800. Not long ago I saw someone on this forum selling both the TA and a pair of Z1Rs for practically nothing (2250). As far as the DMP is concerned, I doubt it will be lowered in price. It’s aimed at a particular buyer whereas the TA has a much larger audience in mind.


----------



## Sanlitun

How many TA-ZH1ES owners use the DSD remastering?

For me it is a mixed bag in that it will subjectively improve lower bitrate media such as YouTube or Spotify but it seems to get weird when I play 16/44 or better. On some tracks it changes the detail emphasis to the point I find it confusing, and on others it improves. I feel the biggest difference is that it has a different treble roll off than their PCM decoding. And as well about 2db softer.

Anyone else hear this?


----------



## Lookout57

I use DSD Remaster all the time and the lowest quality I listen to is 16/44.1 CD rips as FLAC.


----------



## kefs

Sanlitun said:


> How many TA-ZH1ES owners use the DSD remastering?
> 
> For me it is a mixed bag in that it will subjectively improve lower bitrate media such as YouTube or Spotify but it seems to get weird when I play 16/44 or better. On some tracks it changes the detail emphasis to the point I find it confusing, and on others it improves. I feel the biggest difference is that it has a different treble roll off than their PCM decoding. And as well about 2db softer.
> 
> Anyone else hear this?


I don't use it, i have played with it, but find it pinches in the soundstage, and although it sounds clean, it loses realism and airiness.


----------



## nc8000

Lookout57 said:


> I use DSD Remaster all the time and the lowest quality I listen to is 16/44.1 CD rips as FLAC.


Me too


----------



## VladYR

Sanlitun said:


> How many TA-ZH1ES owners use the DSD remastering?
> 
> For me it is a mixed bag in that it will subjectively improve lower bitrate media such as YouTube or Spotify but it seems to get weird when I play 16/44 or better. On some tracks it changes the detail emphasis to the point I find it confusing, and on others it improves. I feel the biggest difference is that it has a different treble roll off than their PCM decoding. And as well about 2db softer.
> 
> Anyone else hear this?


I started using it probably a week after buying and grew used to that sound. I never really paid much attention to what it did with YouTube material as I don’t listen to music there. For the most part, video soundtracks are going to be lower in quality than well recorded studio music so it didn’t really bother me. You could improve it somewhat  by using that other function that upscales lower quality material to cd or near hd level and there are 4 or 5 different settings that you can select from. That can be used in addition to DSD Remastering.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Use it always.


----------



## Gamerlingual

I have it on all the time.


----------



## bvhme

Hey everyone, often when I switch from Pre-out to XLR4 the Pre-out still keeps blasting together with the XLR4. Cycling and selecting XLR4 again works. Are there any others that have this issue? Is there a solution?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Does anyone know where I can buy the extra Walkman cable that you plug on the side that charges and plays the Walkman for the TA? I want to have a spare just in case.


----------



## Tsiklon

bvhme said:


> Hey everyone, often when I switch from Pre-out to XLR4 the Pre-out still keeps blasting together with the XLR4. Cycling and selecting XLR4 again works. Are there any others that have this issue? Is there a solution?



I don’t have anything connected to the pre out of my unit, but I’d reach out to Sony to see if this is expected behaviour


----------



## drews

Gamerlingual said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy the extra Walkman cable that you plug on the side that charges and plays the Walkman for the TA? I want to have a spare just in case.



Encompass has them, unfortunately for $81.94 - I bought one a couple of weeks ago and it arrived quickly.


----------



## kuutan

Hi folks, I own a pair of Z1R and in the process of getting funds for a TA-ZH1ES because I read it's a great pairing. 

But I don't want buyers remorse because I'm currently using an IFI Micro BL. I know I can't compare those two but has anyone jumped between the BL and TA-Z? Is it an improvement worth getting? Or should I just be contempt with what I'm using now? 

Thanks.


----------



## alanjones

Redcarmoose said:


> Congratulations.
> https://www.amazon.com/Sony-WMC-NWH10-Conversion-Cable-Output/dp/B00FF086HE
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the link - this is exactly what I need!


----------



## VladYR (Apr 15, 2021)

kuutan said:


> Hi folks, I own a pair of Z1R and in the process of getting funds for a TA-ZH1ES because I read it's a great pairing.
> 
> But I don't want buyers remorse because I'm currently using an IFI Micro BL. I know I can't compare those two but has anyone jumped between the BL and TA-Z? Is it an improvement worth getting? Or should I just be contempt with what I'm using now?
> 
> Thanks.


TA-ZH1ES is without a doubt a significant improvement over the ifi micro bl. It’s worth buying for sure. It offers a better dac and an amp that’s a lot more flexible in terms of outputs. Also, don’t forget the dsd remastering function that upscales everything to 11.2 MHz. I owned one for around 3 years before trading it in along with a few other things for a Chord Dave.


----------



## kuutan

VladYR said:


> TA-ZH1ES is without a doubt a significant improvement over the ifi micro bl. It’s worth buying for sure. It offers a better dac and an amp that’s a lot more flexible in terms of outputs. Also, don’t forget the dsd remastering function that upscales everything to 11.2 MHz. I owned one for around 3 years before trading it in along with a few other things for a Chord Dave.


Thanks for the input.


----------



## Gamerlingual

VladYR said:


> TA-ZH1ES is without a doubt a significant improvement over the ifi micro bl. It’s worth buying for sure. It offers a better dac and an amp that’s a lot more flexible in terms of outputs. Also, don’t forget the dsd remastering function that upscales everything to 11.2 MHz. I owned one for around 3 years before trading it in along with a few other things for a Chord Dave.


Did you compare the TA to the DMP-Z1? Notice any big difference?


----------



## VladYR

Gamerlingual said:


> Did you compare the TA to the DMP-Z1? Notice any big difference?


I haven’t but I really wanted to.  None of the dealers in the area had one on display. All of them had to put a special order just to buy one. I’m happy with the Dave though, especially after comparing it against dCS Bartok. All I need now is an M Scaler and Roon Nucleus and I think I’ll be all set for the foreseeable future.


----------



## WiseRooster

Don't know if I'm suggesting this to my brain but connected IBASSO DX300 via USB C/B Input on the SONY ZH1ES it seems next Level Resolution and signature with DENON 9200 & Black Dragon.
Really Brainshaking

Is this reality or is the soundstage/resolution trasported through usb?
Have tested about 5 daps through this Setup and I feel this sounds best 'til now...


----------



## VladYR

WiseRooster said:


> Don't know if I'm suggesting this to my brain but connected IBASSO DX300 via USB C/B Input on the SONY ZH1ES it seems next Level Resolution and signature with DENON 9200 & Black Dragon.
> Really Brainshaking
> 
> Is this reality or is the soundstage/resolution trasported through usb?
> Have tested about 5 daps through this Setup and I feel this sounds best 'til now...


It’s entirely possible given that this is a digital headphone amp. It sounded better when I connected it to an Innuos Zenith mk3 not too long ago. It had a more 3D soundstage, definitely with more depth and a considerably blacker background. Try experimenting with better usb cables. Although I’d suggest avoiding Audioquest Diamond and similar cables; way too much treble.


----------



## WiseRooster

VladYR said:


> Try experimenting with better usb cables. Although I’d suggest avoiding Audioquest Diamond and similar cables; way too much treble.


I have for start 1,5m Silver Invictus Cable


----------



## der luda

WiseRooster said:


> Don't know if I'm suggesting this to my brain but connected IBASSO DX300 via USB C/B Input on the SONY ZH1ES it seems next Level Resolution and signature with DENON 9200 & Black Dragon.
> Really Brainshaking



yes that is a very good solution, the TA then plays wonderfully


----------



## VladYR

WiseRooster said:


> I have for start 1,5m Silver Invictus Cable


Something like Nordost Heimdall 2 or Frey 2 may work. If you go with Audioquest, Carbon or Coffee will likely do the trick. Sometimes less is better than more when it comes to silver content in usb cables.


----------



## WiseRooster

VladYR said:


> Something like Nordost Heimdall 2 or Frey 2 may work. If you go with Audioquest, Carbon or Coffee will likely do the trick. Sometimes less is better than more when it comes to silver content in usb cables.


Puh, maybe in the future. Have milked my cashbag for now 🤦


----------



## VladYR

WiseRooster said:


> Puh, maybe in the future. Have milked my cashbag for now 🤦


I know the feeling. Purchasing the Dave was a little less than my current lease of a new Honda Accord 🤣😆


----------



## Gamerlingual

VladYR said:


> I know the feeling. Purchasing the Dave was a little less than my current lease of a new Honda Accord 🤣😆


Double the price of the DMP-Z1? Prolly 20% of the TA


----------



## VladYR

Gamerlingual said:


> Double the price of the DMP-Z1? Prolly 20% of the TA


Around $2000 more than the DMP-Z1. Still, it offers a lot more in terms of connectivity and very likely performance in terms of sound. DMP-z1 has only a usb c on the back. That’s not a whole lot to work with. It wouldn’t really work for me without connecting it to Roon as I like to listen to a song here or there without really settling on an album. Every now and then I might listen to one from start to finish but not usually.


----------



## Gamerlingual

VladYR said:


> Around $2000 more than the DMP-Z1. Still, it offers a lot more in terms of connectivity and very likely performance in terms of sound. DMP-z1 has only a usb c on the back. That’s not a whole lot to work with. It wouldn’t really work for me without connecting it to Roon as I like to listen to a song here or there without really settling on an album. Every now and then I might listen to one from start to finish but not usually.


I used the IER-Z1R with the DMP, TA, and Modded FM 1Z and wow that IEM sounded on all the platforms. But it shocked me that the little portable played so good and it was just in the palm of my hand. At times, I wonder if I need the TA. But it was a spare of the thought moment 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## VladYR

Gamerlingual said:


> I used the IER-Z1R with the DMP, TA, and Modded FM 1Z and wow that IEM sounded on all the platforms. But it shocked me that the little portable played so good and it was just in the palm of my hand. At times, I wonder if I need the TA. But it was a spare of the thought moment 🤷🏻‍♂️



Yes, but the 1Z retails for quite a bit more than the TA. What actually sounded better in comparison? The Z1R are relatively easy to drive so TA’s full power is a bit of an overkill for that pair of headphones. When I had one of those, I played at around 70 or 80 max and that was loud.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 17, 2021)

VladYR said:


> Yes, but the 1Z retails for quite a bit more than the TA. What actually sounded better in comparison? The Z1R are relatively easy to drive so TA’s full power is a bit of an overkill for that pair of headphones. When I had one of those, I played at around 70 or 80 max and that was loud.


Yes, the 1Z has a slight treble boost. But with any IEMs or headphones (regardless which aftermarket software) the TA has a slightly different imaging and separation. The 1Z and TA are made by totally different engineering wings at Sony. Of course there is the DSD upscaling that the 1Z can’t do as well as DEEE HX and DC Phase Linearizer. Added is the TA extra power for full-size headphones.

The reason the TA is not overkill for the IER-Z1R is it actually outperforms the 1Z. There is a damping factor that takes the IER-Z1R is a special place not available with the 1Z. The place can be found a regular listening levels.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Apr 24, 2021)

Can anyone please recommend a bluetooth receiver I can use to connect to my Nvidia Shield to use for movies?
Does anyone have experience with the Fiio BTA30, Topping BC3, Auris BluMe?


----------



## Xinlisupreme

How is with IEMs?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 21, 2021)

@https://www.head-fi.org/members/xinlisupreme.403832/
Well many may not need the power it offers? But for harder to drive IEMs it’s spectacular. Zero noise floor and there is the DSD upscaling as well as DEEE HX and DC Phase Linearizer. It’s one of the best IEM amplifiers in the world.

The DMP-Z1 is probably an improvement, but I myself haven’t heard it?


----------



## nc8000

Xinlisupreme said:


> How is with IEMs?


Very good with both IER-Z1R and JH13


----------



## Xinlisupreme

Maybe dac is a bit old compared to newest dap...


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 21, 2021)

Xinlisupreme said:


> Maybe dac is a bit old compared to newest dap...


You should give it a spin.

Most of us have the Sony IER-Z1R, MDR-Z1R, that it’s meant to have synergy with.


----------



## Xinlisupreme (Apr 21, 2021)

Redcarmoose said:


> You should give it a spin.


It's not easy to find in Italy, i saw it on Amazon for  1726€


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 21, 2021)

Redcarmoose said:


> You should give it a spin.
> 
> Most of us have the Sony IER-Z1R, MDR-Z1R, that it’s meant to have synergy with.





Xinlisupreme said:


> It's not easy to find in Italy, i saw it on Amazon for almost 1800€



Where there is a will there is a way! But really, many of us just find the synergy to be special, if you don’t have the IER-Z1R or MDR-Z1R, you may not need it? Though I find it’s perfect with everything.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> You should give it a spin.
> 
> Most of us have the Sony IER-Z1R, MDR-Z1R, that it’s meant to have synergy with.


Yup, and boy is it some wonderful harmony. Even goes great with the MDR-Z7M2


----------



## Roland P

Xinlisupreme said:


> It's not easy to find in Italy, i saw it on Amazon for  1726€


A while ago it was about 1200€


----------



## kefs

Roland P said:


> A while ago it was about 1200€


Got mine from Amazon UK, a returned model, £1000


----------



## Hinomotocho

JerryHead said:


> anyone hear of a bluetooth receiver (with Low Latency) dongle or device that you could connect to the TA?  I want to try and transmit TV sound through the TA and my TV is 20 feet away from my listening station.  I already have a BT low latency transmitter which works well connected to my AVR..


Did you end up finding one? To get more value out of my TA-ZH1ES I'm looking for the same thing. Please share any options and experiences you might have


----------



## koniotaur

How does the DAC portion of TA-ZH1ES compare to other delta sigma DAC's? Primarly interested in how it compares to RME ADI-2 DAC and Chord Qutest.


----------



## bvhme

Just wanted to say that the Sony TA-ZH1ES sounds absolutely incredbly paired with the Meze Empyrean. The DAC in the Taz has an amazing quality and soundstage to it and seems to resolve most shortcomings the Empy's have in my ears. What a great kit


----------



## Rence

I have browsed through the thread but am wondering if someone is running the TA with the Arya ? Current line up is IER Z1R and shure kse 1200 plus a grado rs2e but I am considering the Arya in the future and looking for an upgrade from the mojo for home office use. I saw and read that the TA does not have that much power but wondering if it is still enough to drive a planar like the Arya at a good level?


----------



## Rence

Just took a gamble and got it used. With ier z1r it is indeed very nice.


----------



## SubL0ck (May 5, 2021)

Hi guys! I am considering the sony TA as dac amp for my 660s and LCD2's. I've had a listening session in a shop and i think i've liked the TA.
Although, i dunno if it's just me or it sounded like it might lack just a tad of oomph in the bass region sometimes. The rest was perfect for my liking.
So... Two questions for owners:
1) Your honest and unbiased opinions on bass presentation are very well welcomed.
2) Should i consider any other equimpment since TA is rather old by today. (Like Topping A90/D90 combo for example).
Thank you!
Ah, and also one question regarding an ASIO driver. Does it use it's own?


----------



## VladYR

Rence said:


> Just took a gamble and got it used. With ier z1r it is indeed very nice.


What was the price? It can be quite a steal if the price is right.


----------



## VladYR

SubL0ck said:


> Hi guys! I am considering the sony TA as dac amp for my 660s and LCD2's. I've had a listening session in a shop and i think i've liked the TA.
> Although, i dunno if it's just me or it sounded like it might lack just a tad of oomph in the bass region sometimes. The rest was perfect for my liking.
> So... Two questions for owners:
> 1) Your honest and unbiased opinions on bass presentation are very well welcomed.
> ...


You won’t go wrong with this dac/amp. In this price range its performance is definitely respectable. I’ve used mine for 3 years before trading way up to Chord Dave and I never thought it lacked in the bass department. If you want or less of it or other aspects of presentation, you could experiment with various cables (power, headphone cables, usb).

Although it might seem somewhat dated as far as modern tech is concerned, it doesn’t really lack anything. The only thing that I could think of is support for MQA since all of its Walkman players support this format. But even then, it’s not a necessity but more of a convenience if you use Tidal or routinely buy MQA albums. You could get around that by using software decoding through the Tidal app or Audirvana, which is great.

Look around the web for deals on it. Some places discount it heavily as either demo or open box.


----------



## Rence

VladYR said:


> What was the price? It can be quite a steal if the price is right





VladYR said:


> What was the price? It can be quite a steal if the price is right.


Around 1100 2 years old but to be honest it is in perfect condition and looks like new.


----------



## bvhme

That sounds like a great price


----------



## Rence

I am wondering if it can drive the ZMF Verite closed. Anyone has that one and happy with the synergy?


----------



## SubL0ck

VladYR said:


> You won’t go wrong with this dac/amp. In this price range its performance is definitely respectable. I’ve used mine for 3 years before trading way up to Chord Dave and I never thought it lacked in the bass department. If you want or less of it or other aspects of presentation, you could experiment with various cables (power, headphone cables, usb).
> 
> Although it might seem somewhat dated as far as modern tech is concerned, it doesn’t really lack anything. The only thing that I could think of is support for MQA since all of its Walkman players support this format. But even then, it’s not a necessity but more of a convenience if you use Tidal or routinely buy MQA albums. You could get around that by using software decoding through the Tidal app or Audirvana, which is great.
> 
> Look around the web for deals on it. Some places discount it heavily as either demo or open box.


And what about Chord Qutest? Will it be a noticable step up compared to Sony? (DAC wise of course).


----------



## VladYR

SubL0ck said:


> And what about Chord Qutest? Will it be a noticable step up compared to Sony? (DAC wise of course).


I believe it could be given its processing power and generally positive reviews it has received from users and reviewers alike. The trick would be to find a well matched amplifier. This process can be somewhat costly since you also need to factor in the cost of quality rca interconnects. Those can easily cost hundreds. Sony is an all in one type device with a removable/upgradable power cord. Personally, I prefer fewer boxes. Sony never really disappointed me. My only experience with Chord Electronics is with its Dave amp/dac.


----------



## VladYR

Rence said:


> Around 1100 2 years old but to be honest it is in perfect condition and looks like new.


That’s about as much as I got for mine as a trade in. After 3 years of use it’s a good value considering that I didn’t have to go through the hassle of listing it somewhere.


----------



## SubL0ck

VladYR said:


> I believe it could be given its processing power and generally positive reviews it has received from users and reviewers alike. The trick would be to find a well matched amplifier. This process can be somewhat costly since you also need to factor in the cost of quality rca interconnects. Those can easily cost hundreds. Sony is an all in one type device with a removable/upgradable power cord. Personally, I prefer fewer boxes. Sony never really disappointed me. My only experience with Chord Electronics is with its Dave amp/dac.


Thanks mate, i think i'll go with the Sony then.


----------



## VladYR

SubL0ck said:


> Thanks mate, i think i'll go with the Sony then.


Good luck with your new toy. Just a few words of advice. If you use it with a streamer, don’t use the rca inputs. This is totally pointless as this dac digitizes incoming signals. You’d be getting Sony’s take on that particular sound. Coax is definitely the way to go. USB arguably sounds the best among its digital inputs.


----------



## SubL0ck

VladYR said:


> Good luck with your new toy. Just a few words of advice. If you use it with a streamer, don’t use the rca inputs. This is totally pointless as this dac digitizes incoming signals. You’d be getting Sony’s take on that particular sound. Coax is definitely the way to go. USB arguably sounds the best among its digital inputs.


I'm gonna use it as a PC soundcard, so USB input only. Question tho... I'm planning to build a speaker set system based on SONY TA as a DAC. And ATM i have a pair of crappy active speakers. Can i switch the output on the TA to RCA WITHOUT the need to unplug the headphones?


----------



## WiseRooster

SubL0ck said:


> Can i switch the output on the TA to RCA WITHOUT the need to unplug the headphones?


Yes, You only have to select the output that You want, the others are muted during playback.


----------



## SubL0ck

WiseRooster said:


> Yes, You only have to select the output that You want, the others are muted during playback.


Thank you!


----------



## Hinomotocho

Mine came with an overseas plug which requires a bulky adapter. I thought I'd take this opportunity to get a better quality one. 
The Isotek EVO3 Initium I'm looking at has a 3 point input, just to be safe I'd like to be sure that this is compatible? The 3rd is ground which is connected to the chassis and hence not required?


----------



## VladYR

Hinomotocho said:


> Mine came with an overseas plug which requires a bulky adapter. I thought I'd take this opportunity to get a better quality one.
> The Isotek EVO3 Initium I'm looking at has a 3 point input, just to be safe I'd like to be sure that this is compatible? The 3rd is ground which is connected to the chassis and hence not required?


Yes, it ought to be compatible. Mine came with a standard US plug with two prongs. I upgraded it to Nordost Frey 2, which has 3. No problems at all.


----------



## WiseRooster

VladYR said:


> I upgraded it to Nordost Frey 2


What could I expect from such a huge upgrade power cable with the ZH1ES?


----------



## VladYR

WiseRooster said:


> What could I expect from such a huge upgrade power cable with the ZH1ES?


If memory serves me right, more hard hitting bass, sharper detail somewhat expanded soundstage. When I first demoed this cable all by itself going straight into the wall outlet, the differences were noticeable but they weren’t  significant enough for me to want to pay the retail price, which is a little over $2000 for a 2 meter cable. Luckily, a dealer friend of mine was selling off a bunch of demo cables at 60% off so I ended up picking up 3 and a power distributor. That’s where the differences begin to accumulate and heighten the effect of this cable on equipment. Honestly, I would recommend getting a better dac/amp than buying this cord at retail value for something like the ZH1ES, unless you can get a very good deal.


----------



## Gamerlingual

VladYR said:


> If memory serves me right, more hard hitting bass, sharper detail somewhat expanded soundstage. When I first demoed this cable all by itself going straight into the wall outlet, the differences were noticeable but they weren’t  significant enough for me to want to pay the retail price, which is a little over $2000 for a 2 meter cable. Luckily, a dealer friend of mine was selling off a bunch of demo cables at 60% off so I ended up picking up 3 and a power distributor. That’s where the differences begin to accumulate and heighten the effect of this cable on equipment. Honestly, I would recommend getting a better dac/amp than buying this cord at retail value for something like the ZH1ES, unless you can get a very good deal.


Too bad Japan only has 2 prongs. Do you recommend another cable to experiment with to see if it changes the sound signature completely? Would it also jack up my electricity bill? Thank you for any info.


----------



## VladYR

Gamerlingual said:


> Too bad Japan only has 2 prongs. Do you recommend another cable to experiment with to see if it changes the sound signature completely? Would it also jack up my electricity bill? Thank you for any info.


Two or three prongs doesn’t really matter in this instance. It’s not merely a Japanese design consideration but rather what sort of device it is. For instance, Apple TV, a charger on a Microsoft Surface Book or any Apple computer charger have two prongs, at least in the US. A microwave oven or a toaster typically have three. So would a washer and a drier or a powerful amplifier. It’s basically the amount of power they draw that determines how many prongs. The third one is the ground.

Given that the TA amp doesn’t consume a lot of electricity, changing a power cable isn’t going to alter that consumption rate. I don’t think it will change the sound signature completely but it will likely change certain aspects of it. In my experience cheaper cables did not change it noticeably. Spending close to TA’s price is not particularly smart, but if you like the results who am I to judge 😁😁😁. From what I hear Ansuz Acoustics makes good cables. They are pricy. Audioquest makes interesting power cables in the 1000+ range that ought to produce audible results but they are very stiff so you’ll need space for them to bend naturally. If you have a dealer nearby, borrow some cables and see what works for you.


----------



## Gamerlingual

VladYR said:


> Two or three prongs doesn’t really matter in this instance. It’s not merely a Japanese design consideration but rather what sort of device it is. For instance, Apple TV, a charger on a Microsoft Surface Book or any Apple computer charger have two prongs, at least in the US. A microwave oven or a toaster typically have three. So would a washer and a drier or a powerful amplifier. It’s basically the amount of power they draw that determines how many prongs. The third one is the ground.
> 
> Given that the TA amp doesn’t consume a lot of electricity, changing a power cable isn’t going to alter that consumption rate. I don’t think it will change the sound signature completely but it will likely change certain aspects of it. In my experience cheaper cables did not change it noticeably. Spending close to TA’s price is not particularly smart, but if you like the results who am I to judge 😁😁😁. From what I hear Ansuz Acoustics makes good cables. They are pricy. Audioquest makes interesting power cables in the 1000+ range that ought to produce audible results but they are very stiff so you’ll need space for them to bend naturally. If you have a dealer nearby, borrow some cables and see what works for you.


Right now, using Sony cradle with my 1Z nested on it, to Carbon Cable USB, to the TA, output to 4.4 with my MDR-Z1R or IER-Z1R. I'm still wondering if there are other little things I can do to maximize the sound. The DMP is ideal and I have the money for it, but can't pull the trigger because who knows what will happen with this pandemic? I do have work, but thinking if just experimenting with my TA in any small sorts of ways till be best to play with what I already have. Kinda crazy to think I can't really discern so many differences between the TA and DMP. If someone could help me identify what to listen for, such as background hiss or something, then I would try again to analyze my music. Perhaps still a noob when it comes to analyzing music, but I do understand instrument separation, hearing the clarity of instruments, where they are placed (side to side, not quite front and back), and how all my headphones have different sound signatures. Thanks for any help so far.


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 7, 2021)

Gamerlingual said:


> Right now, using Sony cradle with my 1Z nested on it, to Carbon Cable USB, to the TA, output to 4.4 with my MDR-Z1R or IER-Z1R. I'm still wondering if there are other little things I can do to maximize the sound. The DMP is ideal and I have the money for it, but can't pull the trigger because who knows what will happen with this pandemic? I do have work, but thinking if just experimenting with my TA in any small sorts of ways till be best to play with what I already have. Kinda crazy to think I can't really discern so many differences between the TA and DMP. If someone could help me identify what to listen for, such as background hiss or something, then I would try again to analyze my music. Perhaps still a noob when it comes to analyzing music, but I do understand instrument separation, hearing the clarity of instruments, where they are placed (side to side, not quite front and back), and how all my headphones have different sound signatures. Thanks for any help so far.



I really think it’s your ultra-low volume level listening that is keeping you from discerning between the two? Though keep in mind, I have not heard the DMP. As you know, I have exactly the same set-up as you with the TA.

I would be grateful you have such very pristine and young ears. Keep the volume at that low-low level and enjoy your youth. You have literally years and years to progress in this hobby. This is not a game of being able to discern everything. It is simply being able to find a “tone” that you can live with. You have every piece of equipment you need, don’t fall for the whole consumerism “thing”.

If you ask me, just find benefits in new music files. Maybe you will notice new recordings as special? Also obviously at any level of detail there may be changes due to power filters. I really don’t know how much power filtration will change the sound of the TA, but as far as standard hobbyist values, it is known as the final frontier!

With the MDR-Z1R I do feel I can hear the damping factor (issue) of the TA, and so have a curiosity if the DMP would “cure” that. But unlike you, I haven’t had the ability to try both back to back. A big part of this is mental. You could maybe even try to arrange the gear you have in a different configuration, and notice improvements. Meaning move the TA to a different part of the house and try to find a new place for it. See if there is some style of rock or wood vibration support that you could introduce.


----------



## VladYR

Gamerlingual said:


> Right now, using Sony cradle with my 1Z nested on it, to Carbon Cable USB, to the TA, output to 4.4 with my MDR-Z1R or IER-Z1R. I'm still wondering if there are other little things I can do to maximize the sound. The DMP is ideal and I have the money for it, but can't pull the trigger because who knows what will happen with this pandemic? I do have work, but thinking if just experimenting with my TA in any small sorts of ways till be best to play with what I already have. Kinda crazy to think I can't really discern so many differences between the TA and DMP. If someone could help me identify what to listen for, such as background hiss or something, then I would try again to analyze my music. Perhaps still a noob when it comes to analyzing music, but I do understand instrument separation, hearing the clarity of instruments, where they are placed (side to side, not quite front and back), and how all my headphones have different sound signatures. Thanks for any help so far.


There’s only so much that you can do with that configuration without spending crazy amounts of money, which may not be the best way to go. Don’t get me wrong, what you have is very nice.  Oftentimes, probably more often than not, this is a game of diminishing returns when you get to a certain level. For instance, when I was recently buying a streamer, the choice was between Linn Selekt DSM with the upgraded Katalyst dac and the Akurate (also Katalyst). They retail for $7000 and $10250 respectively. The dealer offers me 10% off on most things if I’m not trading anything in. The difference between sound quality between the two is maybe 10%. Not the best margin considering the price difference. I went with the former because it offers more expansion options and better connectivity. The difference was spent on better interconnects.

The DMP-Z1 is an interesting device and I would be interested in hearing it some day if I get the chance but it’s not something that I would buy given my current setup, which sounds fantastic. It’s nice to finally get to that place where I’m satisfied. 

ps: What would you do with your current setup if you were to get the DMP?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Keep it at my desk. My DMP could be used in my bedroom or dining room. I could also use it at my desk. The DMP would feel like that little cherished antique to keep. Although I would only buy it used. Not new. Then again, my 1Z is quite the little gold gem for its size. Wow


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## Lookout57

Gamerlingual said:


> Right now, using Sony cradle with my 1Z nested on it, to Carbon Cable USB, to the TA, output to 4.4 with my MDR-Z1R or IER-Z1R. I'm still wondering if there are other little things I can do to maximize the sound. The DMP is ideal and I have the money for it, but can't pull the trigger because who knows what will happen with this pandemic? I do have work, but thinking if just experimenting with my TA in any small sorts of ways till be best to play with what I already have. Kinda crazy to think I can't really discern so many differences between the TA and DMP. If someone could help me identify what to listen for, such as background hiss or something, then I would try again to analyze my music. Perhaps still a noob when it comes to analyzing music, but I do understand instrument separation, hearing the clarity of instruments, where they are placed (side to side, not quite front and back), and how all my headphones have different sound signatures. Thanks for any help so far.


I'm using an Audioquest NRG-X (left over from previous TV) plugged in to a APC LE1200 Automatic Voltage Regulator (leftover from computer before I added a UPS).  My dock (with 1Z) is also plugged into the APC. Not sure of what the improvement is as that is the configuration I've used from Day 1.

I will say that the MDR-Z1R with DHC Prion4 XLR is amazing in this configuration. A couple of days ago I was listening to the Brothers in Arms DSD (SACD rip) and never experienced this recording like I heard it this week.


----------



## Wikinaut

Gamerlingual said:


> Right now, using Sony cradle with my 1Z nested on it, to Carbon Cable USB, to the TA, output to 4.4 with my MDR-Z1R or IER-Z1R. I'm still wondering if there are other little things I can do to maximize the sound. The DMP is ideal and I have the money for it, but can't pull the trigger because who knows what will happen with this pandemic? I do have work, but thinking if just experimenting with my TA in any small sorts of ways till be best to play with what I already have. Kinda crazy to think I can't really discern so many differences between the TA and DMP. If someone could help me identify what to listen for, such as background hiss or something, then I would try again to analyze my music. Perhaps still a noob when it comes to analyzing music, but I do understand instrument separation, hearing the clarity of instruments, where they are placed (side to side, not quite front and back), and how all my headphones have different sound signatures. Thanks for any help so far.



I enjoy the DMP-Z1 with the MDR-Z1R. The fact that it runs on batteries means I can relocate it anywhere in the home and enjoy beautiful music there. While the built-in storage is nice, the art didn't resolve properly for most of my albums, which hampers to user experience. I also like streaming content from my phone to it from time to time using Bluetooth. But usually, it's directly hooked up to by my Roon Nucleus next to my bed where I tend to relax listening to music the most.

In short, I think it's a great device. However, for the money, I would not recommend it. It's just too expensive and you can get more bang for the buck, unless you need one of its features, such as batteries, streaming, or storage. For example, my current go to setup is the SPL phonitor xe w/ DAC using the Focal Utopia headphones. On good material, it makes me grin ear to ear every time. Sometimes, it even fools the mind that music or voices are in the room with me. It's an uncanny feeling and very dependent on the recording. I'm a big fan of vocals and recently discovered this little gem (The World's Greatest Audiophile Vocal Recordings) that is just an utter joy to immerse into and compare equipment with. Of course, it depends on your taste.

While it's an expensive combo, it's still cheaper than the DMP alone. The phonitor xe also works great with the MDR-Z1R once you get an XLR adapter, but the Utopia is in a league of its own. Of course, I need to follow this with the usual disclaimer, what works for me may not work for you. Mostly I'm sharing this as a reminder that there is so much great equipment available for the price of the DMP-Z1 that it really hard to justify recommending it. Just my 2 cents.


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## Wikinaut

I should add that it all started with the TA-ZH1ES. It's a really great dac/amp with excellent performance. I would have been happy with it, but then came 2020 and idle minds became curious about _what if..._ Dangerous territory!


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## Hinomotocho (May 12, 2021)

A year ago I decided to get the WM1A as an upgrade to my ZX300 which pre-Mr Walkman firmwares had left me wanting a different sound. I also sold my portable dac/amp to finance it with the intention of having just one device with an iem upgrade, nice and simple, but a few events since then steered me on to a different course.

I could happily retire on my WM1A, and having the ability to tweak the sound with region changes and the firmwares adds so much value to an aging dap. Everytime I have listened to higher end gear and gone back to my WM1A I am looking to find fault to help  justify spending more, but can't, even with my MDR-Z1R it doesn't lack.
But in saying that there is a joy and value in taking it to the next level, each step onwards and upwards whether it was a new firmware or getting the MDR-Z1R or IER-Z1R has me exploring and appreciating new and often different music or finding a new appreciation for music I already have adding a higher level of enjoyment.

I could never demo the TA-ZH1ES but from following various Sony threads have come to align with some other members and their experiences as we own the same gear and have gone through the evolution of Mr Walkman's firmwares so I almost knew what to expect. Often the term diminishing returns is mentioned but I have a more optimistic view and for all my upgrades have always extracted maximum value and enjoyment and never questioned the choice I made.

The TA-ZH1ES with my IER-Z1R is for me a significant step up from my WM1A, it has literally added another dimension to the music. I'm not particularly good with describing audio experiences but it is like those diagrams that show various stages of zoom in enlarging a component, each instrument in the mix is given a focus and space allowing micro details and textures to be heard.
My recent upgrade to the IER-Z1R took the word soundstage to a whole new experience but with the TA-ZH1ES that has unfolded and expanded out even further.
Recordings differ greatly and there are some albums that just don't impress regardless of gear, others, even old early 80's low budget first albums that sound fantastic, and there are others that can be milked with a higher level of gear and literally blow you away.
I got a good price for a 1 year old unit (AU$1750) which makes it a well worth upgrade to the WM1A (new AU$1200).

* I worked 60 hours last week and realised I haven't even had time to try my MDR-Z1R  yet


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## akãjerovia (May 12, 2021)

Hinomotocho said:


> A year ago I decided to get the WM1A as an upgrade to my ZX300 which pre-Mr Walkman firmwares had left me wanting a different sound. I also sold my portable dac/amp to finance it with the intention of having just one device with an iem upgrade, nice and simple, but a few events since then steered me on to a different course.
> 
> I could happily retire on my WM1A, and having the ability to tweak the sound with region changes and the firmwares adds so much value to an aging dap. Everytime I have listened to higher end gear and gone back to my WM1A I am looking to find fault to help  justify spending more, but can't, even with my MDR-Z1R it doesn't lack.
> But in saying that there is a joy and value in taking it to the next level, each step onwards and upwards whether it was a new firmware or getting the MDR-Z1R or IER-Z1R has me exploring and appreciating new and often different music or finding a new appreciation for music I already have adding a higher level of enjoyment.
> ...



Congratulations Hino! You finally got your signature collection, enjoy it man.


----------



## Hinomotocho

akãjerovia said:


> Congratulations Hino! You finally got your signature collection, enjoy it man.


Thank you - I have tried some other options but as you once referred to it as the 'audio trinity' I felt the Sony synergy was the best way to go for me.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Hinomotocho said:


> A year ago I decided to get the WM1A as an upgrade to my ZX300 which pre-Mr Walkman firmwares had left me wanting a different sound. I also sold my portable dac/amp to finance it with the intention of having just one device with an iem upgrade, nice and simple, but a few events since then steered me on to a different course.
> 
> I could happily retire on my WM1A, and having the ability to tweak the sound with region changes and the firmwares adds so much value to an aging dap. Everytime I have listened to higher end gear and gone back to my WM1A I am looking to find fault to help  justify spending more, but can't, even with my MDR-Z1R it doesn't lack.
> But in saying that there is a joy and value in taking it to the next level, each step onwards and upwards whether it was a new firmware or getting the MDR-Z1R or IER-Z1R has me exploring and appreciating new and often different music or finding a new appreciation for music I already have adding a higher level of enjoyment.
> ...


Happy to hear it worked out.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Redcarmoose said:


> Happy to hear it worked out.


Many of your posts sharing your opinions and experiences have contributed to my purchase - thank you


----------



## Gamerlingual

Hinomotocho said:


> Many of your posts sharing your opinions and experiences have contributed to my purchase - thank you


He’s the Sony doctor and mentor


----------



## Hinomotocho

Gamerlingual said:


> He’s the Sony doctor and mentor


I recently read both the IER-Z1R and TA-ZH1ES threads and can see where many of his 21,000+ posts are - Redcarmoose has hit the nail on the head many times for me


----------



## Gamerlingual

Hinomotocho said:


> I recently read both the IER-Z1R and TA-ZH1ES threads and can see where many of his 21,000+ posts are - Redcarmoose has hit the nail on the head many times for me


He’s been a great influence. The fact that I was lucky to test his recommendations in Japan and how they fell in line with my joy of listening say a lot. DMP is still on my radar. But after what I saw Naim release (some amp, DAC, streaming device for $3200, it is making me pause since the DMP is way less than that. Doesn’t mean I’m buying Naim Uniti Atom. But now I can see why people say that the money can be better spent. The TA is a good example of a great device for the money. So good!


----------



## VladYR

Hinomotocho said:


> A year ago I decided to get the WM1A as an upgrade to my ZX300 which pre-Mr Walkman firmwares had left me wanting a different sound. I also sold my portable dac/amp to finance it with the intention of having just one device with an iem upgrade, nice and simple, but a few events since then steered me on to a different course.
> 
> I could happily retire on my WM1A, and having the ability to tweak the sound with region changes and the firmwares adds so much value to an aging dap. Everytime I have listened to higher end gear and gone back to my WM1A I am looking to find fault to help  justify spending more, but can't, even with my MDR-Z1R it doesn't lack.
> But in saying that there is a joy and value in taking it to the next level, each step onwards and upwards whether it was a new firmware or getting the MDR-Z1R or IER-Z1R has me exploring and appreciating new and often different music or finding a new appreciation for music I already have adding a higher level of enjoyment.
> ...


Enjoy it. It’s a nice combination. Hopefully your eyes and ears won’t be wondering if there’s something even better. At least for a while 😁😁😁


----------



## VladYR

Gamerlingual said:


> He’s been a great influence. The fact that I was lucky to test his recommendations in Japan and how they fell in line with my joy of listening say a lot. DMP is still on my radar. But after what I saw Naim release (some amp, DAC, streaming device for $3200, it is making me pause since the DMP is way less than that. Doesn’t mean I’m buying Naim Uniti Atom. But now I can see why people say that the money can be better spent. The TA is a good example of a great device for the money. So good!


Although the Atom is a great value, one can definitely find better. A used DMP would likely sound superior. Atom’s headphone output is slightly noisy in comparison to TA’s virtually black background. This particular variant could be an improvement  but there’s so much you can do in that price range.


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## Gamerlingual

VladYR said:


> Although the Atom is a great value, one can definitely find better. A used DMP would likely sound superior. Atom’s headphone output is slightly noisy in comparison to TA’s virtually black background. This particular variant could be an improvement  but there’s so much you can do in that price range.


Ah. So Sony is recognized as having no background noise for most of their products? Basically, the cost of the DMP goes to the sound, which I still feel is too close to the TA


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## VladYR

Gamerlingual said:


> Ah. So Sony is recognized as having no background noise for most of their products? Basically, the cost of the DMP goes to the sound, which I still feel is too close to the TA


Well, you could take a different direction If you can’t discern enough differences between the two. Why not try a streamer in the same price range? Linn makes very good ones. I really enjoy the Selekt DSM with the Katalyst dac. It’s very musical. Naim is a bit darker and veiled, even when it comes to its mid and top range streamers, which retail from almost $8k to over $20k. The Sony amp has a coax input and any of the Linn streamers have a digital out also. Unfortunately, I never tried it while I had that amp but with the Dave it works great.

Servers like Innuos Zenith are another option to look at. I tried one of those a few months ago and liked what I heard. I was just not taken with its control app. But from what I heard, they are working on something new. At $4800 for a 1TB model, it’s not a bad proposition at all. It actually pairs well with Sony. Very 3D soundstage and dark background.


----------



## Gamerlingual

VladYR said:


> Well, you could take a different direction If you can’t discern enough differences between the two. Why not try a streamer in the same price range? Linn makes very good ones. I really enjoy the Selekt DSM with the Katalyst dac. It’s very musical. Naim is a bit darker and veiled, even when it comes to its mid and top range streamers, which retail from almost $8k to over $20k. The Sony amp has a coax input and any of the Linn streamers have a digital out also. Unfortunately, I never tried it while I had that amp but with the Dave it works great.
> 
> Servers like Innuos Zenith are another option to look at. I tried one of those a few months ago and liked what I heard. I was just not taken with its control app. But from what I heard, they are working on something new. At $4800 for a 1TB model, it’s not a bad proposition at all. It actually pairs well with Sony. Very 3D soundstage and dark background.


I just hope I’m not the only one who falls into that category of people not being to discern enough of the sound. I have read that some people prefer the WM1A over the WM1Z, so there are cases where people think the lower priced devices do sound better than their higher priced rivals or family members. The TA does everything great all around. Shanling is also coming out with a streamer, but not sure it can pair up with the TA.


----------



## Hinomotocho

VladYR said:


> Enjoy it. It’s a nice combination. Hopefully your eyes and ears won’t be wondering if there’s something even better. At least for a while 😁😁😁


Thanks. I think I've reached my limit   
The DMP-Z1 would be the obvious step up in the Sony realm but even at half the price I don't think I could justify it. 
I was in e earphone in Osaka when they got their first one in store and they offered me a chance to listen to it but I declined - how could I have gone back to the ZX300 I had at the time


----------



## nc8000

VladYR said:


> Well, you could take a different direction If you can’t discern enough differences between the two. Why not try a streamer in the same price range? Linn makes very good ones. I really enjoy the Selekt DSM with the Katalyst dac. It’s very musical. Naim is a bit darker and veiled, even when it comes to its mid and top range streamers, which retail from almost $8k to over $20k. The Sony amp has a coax input and any of the Linn streamers have a digital out also. Unfortunately, I never tried it while I had that amp but with the Dave it works great.
> 
> Servers like Innuos Zenith are another option to look at. I tried one of those a few months ago and liked what I heard. I was just not taken with its control app. But from what I heard, they are working on something new. At $4800 for a 1TB model, it’s not a bad proposition at all. It actually pairs well with Sony. Very 3D soundstage and dark background.


I’ve been using the TA with MDR-Z1R and an Auralic Aries Mini streamer for now over 4 years and have absolutely no desire to try anything else. Alternatively for travels I use the 1Z with the IER-Z1R (also use that at home sometimes and the IER with the TA).


----------



## Redcarmoose

VladYR said:


> Enjoy it. It’s a nice combination. Hopefully your eyes and ears won’t be wondering if there’s something even better. At least for a while 😁😁😁


Wondering when? I purchased mine in 2018? Still satisfied.


----------



## VladYR

Hinomotocho said:


> Thanks. I think I've reached my limit
> The DMP-Z1 would be the obvious step up in the Sony realm but even at half the price I don't think I could justify it.
> I was in e earphone in Osaka when they got their first one in store and they offered me a chance to listen to it but I declined - how could I have gone back to the ZX300 I had at the time


At half price I could have justified it if the sound quality was discernibly a step or two up from the TA, especially if the latter was taken in as a trade. Generally, I don’t audition equipment that I can’t reasonably purchase within a year or two. At the same time, I like to try new things to see if they are actually worth pursuing. Sometimes it helps to stop obsessing over top notch gear. That’s precisely what happened with dCS Bartok. It was rather like meeting one’s idol. It was extremely ordinary and very disappointing.


----------



## VladYR

Gamerlingual said:


> I just hope I’m not the only one who falls into that category of people not being to discern enough of the sound. I have read that some people prefer the WM1A over the WM1Z, so there are cases where people think the lower priced devices do sound better than their higher priced rivals or family members. The TA does everything great all around. Shanling is also coming out with a streamer, but not sure it can pair up with the TA.


As it so happens, lower priced gear can sound a lot better than the more expensive alternatives. Case in point would be Chord Dave vs. dCS Bartok. The difference is roughly $7000. It might be worth it to just stick with what you have and enjoy it. Save the money and use it on something else.


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## Wikinaut

The Naim looks really tempting. I had been looking for a wireless unit that could connect to Roon and this fits the bill.

I love the TA. It's probably the DAC that opened my ears to a world of sound quality I had been ignorant off before. I'm afraid of comparing the DMP directly to the TA, because I fear I can't hear a difference. That's the downside of upgrading in the same product family. Using a different devices like Naim or SPL means it comes with its own signature, which may or may not to more to your liking, just like a fine wine!


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## Gamerlingual

Wikinaut said:


> The Naim looks really tempting. I had been looking for a wireless unit that could connect to Roon and this fits the bill.
> 
> I love the TA. It's probably the DAC that opened my ears to a world of sound quality I had been ignorant off before. I'm afraid of comparing the DMP directly to the TA, because I fear I can't hear a difference. That's the downside of upgrading in the same product family. Using a different devices like Naim or SPL means it comes with its own signature, which may or may not to more to your liking, just like a fine wine!


Nothing to be afraid of. Try it. If it doesn’t match, then it’s all in the marketing. Joshua Valour had a nice video on introduction to audiophile music. The marketing aspect was something I always imagined was true. No matter what excuses they use, they try to use that to their advantage to make the device sound more special than it is. But listening to the TA, I truly found it to be a step up from the 1Z. The DMP, unless my mind has been tricked, about as good as the TA. Even when using my IER-Z1R


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## Hinomotocho (May 15, 2021)

Gamerlingual said:


> Nothing to be afraid of. Try it. If it doesn’t match, then it’s all in the marketing. Joshua Valour had a nice video on introduction to audiophile music. The marketing aspect was something I always imagined was true. No matter what excuses they use, they try to use that to their advantage to make the device sound more special than it is. But listening to the TA, I truly found it to be a step up from the 1Z. The DMP, unless my mind has been tricked, about as good as the TA. Even when using my IER-Z1R


From many of your posts you seem to be peachy keen to get the DMP-Z1, but from other posts referring to your demoing experience you haven't really been able to see the difference for the significant step up in price. I haven't heard it so can't comment on it.
This is not intended to sound belittling or condescending so please don't take it that way - I myself am still learning so much after many years on here, especially the past 9 months as I went for overheads and desktop amps. It is only a year since you joined and started on the path to high end audio which is not really a long time, and you quickly rose through the tiers to TOTL gear. There is no right or wrong way to do it but I wonder if it also took away the usual evolution of having one dap or amp for a longer period of time and really getting to familiarise yourself with it before moving on to the next level? Also you acquired a lot of gear and perhaps saturated yourself with so many different signatures and pairings.
You seemed to have saved the money but are having second thoughts, perhaps it would be better to hold back and take more time ( a couple months) and settle on one pairing like the TA-ZH1ES and Z1R and really familiarise with it, then go and demo the DMP again, this may make the differences more obvious. Also I have found some albums scale well with better gear than others which can highlight soundstaging and instrument textures etc, others seem to sound flat regardless.


----------



## VladYR

It would be kind of interesting for the purpose of comparison to put the DMP against something from Chord in a similar price range and see how it fairs. Maybe a Hugo TT 2 with or without the M Scaler. Dave isn’t exactly playing fair given that it’s several thousand more.

What I found rather curious is that while TA does upscaling and remastering into 11.2 MHz dsd, it’s not exactly night and day when you turn it on and off. On the other hand, when you connect an M Scaler to a Dave or Hugo the difference is unmistakable. Admittedly, this is a nearly $5000 device but it’s addictively transformative.


----------



## Wikinaut

The DMP-Z1 is not just a DAC, it's a portable DAC. And very likely the ultimate portable DAC. I remember when I fell in love with the Oppo HA-SE2. It opened my ears to new possibilities. I had it hooked up to my iPhone at the time and was streaming DSD to it. It was amazing! That's what lead me to buy the TA-ZH1ES, or _Tazzy_ as it is lovingly called. And with that, I started trying out headphones as well. Eventually, I converged onto the Sennheiser brand as my preferred sound with the open design. That was the status quo for a long time until I tried the MDR-Z1R last year. The Z1R combines the best of open and closed headphones. Sony did a really great job with them. The highs are crystal clear and the lows have impact. Right now, they are my go to pair for the DMP-Z1. I tried the Focal Utopia with the DMP, but I didn't like that pairing as much. I wouldn't have gone for the DMP if I hadn't been so impressed by the TZ and Z1R. Right now, I'm eyeing the IER-Z1R as a continuation of my infatuation with Sony audio products. One day...


----------



## Gamerlingual

Wikinaut said:


> The DMP-Z1 is not just a DAC, it's a portable DAC. And very likely the ultimate portable DAC. I remember when I fell in love with the Oppo HA-SE2. It opened my ears to new possibilities. I had it hooked up to my iPhone at the time and was streaming DSD to it. It was amazing! That's what lead me to buy the TA-ZH1ES, or _Tazzy_ as it is lovingly called. And with that, I started trying out headphones as well. Eventually, I converged onto the Sennheiser brand as my preferred sound with the open design. That was the status quo for a long time until I tried the MDR-Z1R last year. The Z1R combines the best of open and closed headphones. Sony did a really great job with them. The highs are crystal clear and the lows have impact. Right now, they are my go to pair for the DMP-Z1. I tried the Focal Utopia with the DMP, but I didn't like that pairing as much. I wouldn't have gone for the DMP if I hadn't been so impressed by the TZ and Z1R. Right now, I'm eyeing the IER-Z1R as a continuation of my infatuation with Sony audio products. One day...


Ok. So this is why I thought the TA was so good with the Z1R and thought the DMP just let it get louder. I don’t plan on buying power demanding headphones. I decided that the Focal Celestee will be my last pair IF my ears like their sound. I’m only able to afford my stuff since I mostly go the used route


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## gerelmx1986

I tried a Ta and DMP in berlin. The DMP-z1 has poisoned my head, what a lovely sound quality. I felt the dsd remaster of smo sis a huge difference esp with 16/44.1 .
This is facinating considering SMP has not the real sony walkman essence as the TA (S-Master DAC is on TA, but AKM now-out-of-print AK4497 on Z1)


----------



## Wikinaut

*Question:* what headphone stands do you use or recommend? I've found some that are okay on Amazon. They feel a bit low and don't let the cords dangle as freely as I like. 

I've tried the following over the years:

Auray HPDS-B Desktop Headphone Stand
Nice single piece stand, but too low for my taste.

AmoVee Acrylic Headphone Stand Gaming Headset Holder/Hanger, Extra Thick
Total piece of junk that I sent back. It's too light for its purpose. Every time you grab your headphones, the stand comes along for the ride. Their solution is to use sticky tape to attach to your table. 🤯

JOKItech Dual Aluminum Headphones Stand Holder
This stand is especially cool if you have more than one headphone connected, such an open and closed back. The TA has both balanced XLR and Pentaconn ports--a rare feature!--which make this stand a perfect fit. Quality is okay.

Casethrone Aluminum Headphone Stand Headset Hanger Stand
This was my first stand and it's still in use. Simple and reliable.


----------



## nc8000

Wikinaut said:


> *Question:* what headphone stands do you use or recommend? I've found some that are okay on Amazon. They feel a bit low and don't let the cords dangle as freely as I like.
> 
> I've tried the following over the years:
> 
> ...


A $4 foldable hook from Ikea


----------



## kefs

nc8000 said:


> A $4 foldable hook from Ikea


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


----------



## nc8000

kefs said:


> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


Yes. It’s been hanging like that for 4 1/2 years now with absolutely no problems


----------



## Wikinaut

nc8000 said:


> Yes. It’s been hanging like that for 4 1/2 years now with absolutely no problems



Well, that would not look good by my desk, bed, or reading table.  Any other opinions?


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## nc8000

Wikinaut said:


> Well, that would not look good by my desk, bed, or reading table.  Any other opinions?


This is what my entire bed side rig looks like (except there is now a different headphone cable), looks fine to me, but something like that is obviously entirely personal


----------



## Rence

nc8000 said:


> This is what my entire bed side rig looks like (except there is now a different headphone cable), looks fine to me, but something like that is obviously entirely personal


Haha, love the Lagavulin. Great choice


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## nc8000

Rence said:


> Haha, love the Lagavulin. Great choice


The Lag is long gone. At present there is a bottle of Glenfracles 105


----------



## Hinomotocho

I have 2 cats and a rescue blackbird that frequently trespass on my desk, plus my partners plants threaten from shelves above so I have come up with a temporary (?) rack set up for protection. 
It consists of a $7 K-Mart metal filing tray with mesh sides and a nice solid piece of 8mm clear acrylic as a cover. 
The photos show the acrylic currently sitting on the edges of the tray but I need to create some spacers to raise it up before using. 
Can anyone please give me an idea of how high they would need to be to avoid heat build up? Bear in mind the sides and back of the tray are mesh and there will be a large gap between the spacers, I don't live in a hot climate and I would listen for an hour maximum. 
The amp seems to run quite cool but if heat is any kind of concern I will hook up a USB fan to create flow.


----------



## Tsiklon

Hinomotocho said:


> I have 2 cats and a rescue blackbird that frequently trespass on my desk…



Completely unrelated, and at the risk of derailing the thread but can you share a photo of the cats and the bird friend?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Tsiklon said:


> Completely unrelated, and at the risk of derailing the thread but can you share a photo of the cats and the bird friend?


Yes, we want to see the blackbird!


----------



## Hinomotocho

Tsiklon said:


> Completely unrelated, and at the risk of derailing the thread but can you share a photo of the cats and the bird friend?





Redcarmoose said:


> Yes, we want to see the blackbird!





Meet Pipi.

Just to keep the posts relevant, the TA-ZH1ES is a beast compared to the RME ADI-2 I had before - it had the depth of my compact keyboard and sat nicely under my monitor stand where as the Sony with the upgrade cable eats a quarter of my small desk.


----------



## nc8000

Hinomotocho said:


> Meet Pipi.
> 
> Just to keep the posts relevant, the TA-ZH1ES is a beast compared to the RME ADI-2 I had before - it had the depth of my compact keyboard and sat nicely under my monitor stand where as the Sony with the upgrade cable eats a quarter of my small desk.


It is all a matter of comparison. I found the TA nice and compact coming from the RudiStor RPX-100 that was almost twice as wide and twice as tall and roughly same depth


----------



## Rence

Hinomotocho said:


> Meet Pipi.
> 
> Just to keep the posts relevant, the TA-ZH1ES is a beast compared to the RME ADI-2 I had before - it had the depth of my compact keyboard and sat nicely under my monitor stand where as the Sony with the upgrade cable eats a quarter of my small desk.


Nice bird. Also, how do you compare the sound between those two?


----------



## VladYR

Hinomotocho said:


> I have 2 cats and a rescue blackbird that frequently trespass on my desk, plus my partners plants threaten from shelves above so I have come up with a temporary (?) rack set up for protection.
> It consists of a $7 K-Mart metal filing tray with mesh sides and a nice solid piece of 8mm clear acrylic as a cover.
> The photos show the acrylic currently sitting on the edges of the tray but I need to create some spacers to raise it up before using.
> Can anyone please give me an idea of how high they would need to be to avoid heat build up? Bear in mind the sides and back of the tray are mesh and there will be a large gap between the spacers, I don't live in a hot climate and I would listen for an hour maximum.
> The amp seems to run quite cool but if heat is any kind of concern I will hook up a USB fan to create flow.


The things that we do to protect/accommodate our toys 😂😄. I’d say a centimeter would do. The sides of that enclosure are mesh. A good deal of ventilation of this amp can happen through the bottom of the unit. If you listen for only an hour you have nothing to worry about. I kept burning in headphones and cables last summer. This thing was sitting in a rack with ventilation not being the best. It got quite warm after 8-10 hours but not hot enough to cook food on.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Rence said:


> Nice bird. Also, how do you compare the sound between those two?


Between the bird and the RME?   
I didn't own at the same time to do a direct comparison, also I have a simplistic approach to gear and don't have a great deal of experience with desktops to give you a qualified opinion - I'll just share my experience when pairing with my MDR-Z1R. 
From the RME my iems sounded fantastic using the iem output with default settings whereas pairing with my MDR-Z1R didn't impress me. I could appreciate the quality of the dac and having a more powerful output than the WM1A I was coming from but it did nothing for me. I tried some PEQ settings from some other members who owned or had tried the same pairing and still didn't find satisfaction. I had read several comments about the RME's dac being highly regarded and the amp being described as too neutral and boring(?) so I figured this was what I was experiencing. I see many people use it as a dac and add an amp for better results. 
The RME has a a lot of settings to tweak the sound but I wasn't up for the task so decided to set my sights again on the TA-ZH1ES for a straightforward match made in heaven plug and play end game set up. 
The TA-ZH1ES is straight up a more pleasing sound to my ears with both my IER-Z1R and MDR-Z1R and in particular has a wonderful holographic soundstage which I find incredibly satisfying and from memory something I couldn't manipulate the RME to achieve. I'm not saying the Sony is all round better as I've also read reviews saying there are better amps than the TA-ZH1ES and highlighting areas it may lack but for me it was an ideal choice. 
I hope this may be of some value.


----------



## Rence

Hinomotocho said:


> Between the bird and the RME?
> I didn't own at the same time to do a direct comparison, also I have a simplistic approach to gear and don't have a great deal of experience with desktops to give you a qualified opinion - I'll just share my experience when pairing with my MDR-Z1R.
> From the RME my iems sounded fantastic using the iem output with default settings whereas pairing with my MDR-Z1R didn't impress me. I could appreciate the quality of the dac and having a more powerful output than the WM1A I was coming from but it did nothing for me. I tried some PEQ settings from some other members who owned or had tried the same pairing and still didn't find satisfaction. I had read several comments about the RME's dac being highly regarded and the amp being described as too neutral and boring(?) so I figured this was what I was experiencing. I see many people use it as a dac and add an amp for better results.
> The RME has a a lot of settings to tweak the sound but I wasn't up for the task so decided to set my sights again on the TA-ZH1ES for a straightforward match made in heaven plug and play end game set up.
> ...


Thank you!


----------



## Gamerlingual

nc8000 said:


> This is what my entire bed side rig looks like (except there is now a different headphone cable), looks fine to me, but something like that is obviously entirely personal


Looks lovely to me. Certainly would like to have such a setup. Keep it up.


----------



## Hinomotocho

The pioneers of electronic music who inspired the early English synth groups before morphing into early 80's synthpop.
These tracks really highlight the traits I love about the IER-Z1R with the TA-ZH1ES.
An example of how higher end gear has me appreciating other recordings that would otherwise not be my cup of tea.


----------



## SubL0ck

Just got myself the device. Wow, sounds amazing, really great there, but...
I'm really dissappointed. TA is pretty much unusable for any online competitive shooters as a sound card. The delay is massive! Tried the low gain trick, didn't work. The delay is may be slightly less noticable, but still there. Any possible solution?


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 22, 2021)

Didn’t know a real-time delay?


----------



## VladYR

SubL0ck said:


> Just got myself the device. Wow, sounds amazing, really great there, but...
> I'm really dissappointed. TA is pretty much unusable for any online competitive shooters as a sound card. The delay is massive! Tried the low gain trick, didn't work. The delay is may be slightly less noticable, but still there. Any possible solution?


That’s really strange. I did a fair amount of gaming and tv watching with mine and never noticed any av sync issues. It was either through usb or optical. Gain wouldn’t make any difference in this situation. I did some av sync tests just to make sure there was no latency. No problems.


----------



## SubL0ck

60 FPS games are fine, but i have a 240Hz monitor. Delay is huge like this.


----------



## VladYR

There’s definitely a noticeable amount of latency with the signature series Walkman players if used as a dac/amp with a computer. It was acknowledged by Sony with the caveat that the players are not intended for video use.


----------



## SubL0ck

Do u think all the Hi-Fi/Hi-End DACs are prone to this problem?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Are you using 1.03 firmware?


----------



## VladYR

That’s hard to say without testing. I’m using the Chord Dave now. No av sync issues so far. However, when using it alongside the Hugo M Scaler there can be problems, but those can be minimized by the av option.


----------



## nc8000

SubL0ck said:


> Just got myself the device. Wow, sounds amazing, really great there, but...
> I'm really dissappointed. TA is pretty much unusable for any online competitive shooters as a sound card. The delay is massive! Tried the low gain trick, didn't work. The delay is may be slightly less noticable, but still there. Any possible solution?


I’ve never had it connected to a pc and don’t do any gaming, but there is no sync issue over optical from my tv watching movies


----------



## SubL0ck

Redcarmoose said:


> Are you using 1.03 firmware?





Redcarmoose said:


> Are you using 1.03 firmware?


Yes.


----------



## SubL0ck

nc8000 said:


> I’ve never had it connected to a pc and don’t do any gaming, but there is no sync issue over optical from my tv watching movies


I don't notive a delay playing 60FPS games or watching YT/Movies. It's the competitive shooters part that is problematic. CS: GO/Quake with FPS over 200/300 aren't playable. Guess i need another pair of headphones to play those using my EVGA soundcard. Shoot


----------



## Redcarmoose

I never had a syncing issue with the TV. The Walkmans have that problem in DAC mode. For the first maybe 4 years they didn’t even offer a DAC mode, then it was introduced later with 3.00 firmware. 
You can use VLC movie player to synchronize vocals.


----------



## VladYR

SubL0ck said:


> I don't notive a delay playing 60FPS games or watching YT/Movies. It's the competitive shooters part that is problematic. CS: GO/Quake with FPS over 200/300 aren't playable. Guess i need another pair of headphones to play those using my EVGA soundcard. Shoot


That may not have been a consideration back in 2016 when this dac/amp came out. Technology tends to change quite a lot in the span of 5 years.


----------



## nc8000

VladYR said:


> That may not have been a consideration back in 2016 when this dac/amp came out. Technology tends to change quite a lot in the span of 5 years.


Apart from the fact the Sonys main focus was music not video/gaming


----------



## nc8000

SubL0ck said:


> I don't notive a delay playing 60FPS games or watching YT/Movies. It's the competitive shooters part that is problematic. CS: GO/Quake with FPS over 200/300 aren't playable. Guess i need another pair of headphones to play those using my EVGA soundcard. Shoot


Wonder if is the TA that has the problem receiving and handling or if is the pc having trouble keeping up sending the signal out


----------



## Gamerlingual

No problems using the TA with Doom Eternal on PC 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## JerryHead

Hinomotocho said:


> Did you end up finding one? To get more value out of my TA-ZH1ES I'm looking for the same thing. Please share any options and experiences you might have


Sorry, just saw this.  Yeh, I ended up going with this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014A676BK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
And this
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z13H4TP/ref=emc_b_5_t
They’re a little finicky to set up, but once paired, they work fine.  I leave both plugged in all the time so I don’t have to re-pair each time.


----------



## kefs

I have come to the conclusion that i prefer the sound of my LG V60 via walkman in, compared to pc via usb b playing both native FLAC files and Qobuz hi-res. Both cables are the same spec, Gothic Audio silver Sempher.


----------



## Hinomotocho

JerryHead said:


> Sorry, just saw this.  Yeh, I ended up going with this:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014A676BK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> And this
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z13H4TP/ref=emc_b_5_t
> They’re a little finicky to set up, but once paired, they work fine.  I leave both plugged in all the time so I don’t have to re-pair each time.


Thank you, the Auris is on my list.
I've only recently bought the TA-ZH1ES and I'm really impressed with the soundstage for music so I'm keen to hear a movie soundtrack.


----------



## VladYR

Hinomotocho said:


> Thank you, the Auris is on my list.
> I've only recently bought the TA-ZH1ES and I'm really impressed with the soundstage for music so I'm keen to hear a movie soundtrack.


Movies sound great with it. I binged most of Vikings and Game of Thrones with it and the Z1R.  Very satisfying.


----------



## Hinomotocho

VladYR said:


> Movies sound great with it. I binged most of Vikings and Game of Thrones with it and the Z1R.  Very satisfying.


I quickly tried my BTR5 (LDAC) using an el cheapo 3.5mm to RCA cable with some discoloured connectors and it still sounded pretty good so a decent bluetooth receiver with optical out should be impressive.


----------



## SubL0ck (May 27, 2021)

Want to thank all of you guys for advice. The device sounds incredible. Unfortunately, there is no way to defeat the lag, so it's unusable for any sort of competetive gaming, but music... Man! Sounds awesome.
One question tho. I'ts my first ever Hi-Fi (Or Hi-End?) device and i'm not that familiar with how the other hardware sounds, so it's hard for me to compare. But is it normal that the soundstage is so HUGE? I mean, i have 660S and these aren't known for impressive staging, but with the TA the sound is SO 3D. I'm coming for a soundcard (EVGA NU Audio with MUSES02 OP Amps) and it sounds like chinese toy in comparison. So is it ok or the sound is artificially widened? Thank you.


----------



## bvhme

SubL0ck said:


> Want to thank all of you guys for advice. The device sounds incredible. Unfortunately, there is no way to defeat the lag, so it's unusable for any sort of competetive gaming, but music... Man! Sounds awesome.
> One question tho. I'ts my first ever Hi-Fi (Or Hi-End?) device and i'm not that familiar with how the other hardware sounds, so it's hard for me to compare. But is it normal that the soundstage is so HUGE? I mean, i have 660S and these aren't known for impressive staging, but with the TA the sound is SO 3D. I'm coming for a soundcard (EVGA NU Audio with MUSES02 OP Amps) and it sounds like chinese toy in comparison. So is it ok or the sound is artificially widened? Thank you.



Those are some beautiful photos.

I think the wide soundstage is due to the DAC being very able and the DSEE and DSD RE also seem to help. But yes, it is incredible. I do however have an DAC/Amp that actually does widen the soundstage (the Phonitor X Matrix) and that is waaaaaay bigger, so that is possible. I think the Taz is just very very capable!


----------



## SubL0ck

bvhme said:


> Those are some beautiful photos.
> 
> I think the wide soundstage is due to the DAC being very able and the DSEE and DSD RE also seem to help. But yes, it is incredible. I do however have an DAC/Amp that actually does widen the soundstage (the Phonitor X Matrix) and that is waaaaaay bigger, so that is possible. I think the Taz is just very very capable!


So it's normal, right? I mean, i would like my music to be delieved in a way that it's been recorded and any sort of enhancing isn't particularry what i'm looking for. But yeah, it's hard for me to judge, i'm not used to this class hardware


----------



## bvhme

SubL0ck said:


> So it's normal, right? I mean, i would like my music to be delieved in a way that it's been recorded and any sort of enhancing isn't particularry what i'm looking for. But yeah, it's hard for me to judge, i'm not used to this class hardware


I think that for it's class the TA-ZH1ES has exceptional sound stage, but it's not uncommon for higher end DAC/Amps to have this kind of sound staging I think (my Phonitor  X 768xs has a similar soundstage without enhancement). My theory right now is that sound staging is a byproduct of an aspect of resolution, something the Taz excels at.


----------



## Hinomotocho

SubL0ck said:


> So it's normal, right? I mean, i would like my music to be delieved in a way that it's been recorded and any sort of enhancing isn't particularry what i'm looking for. But yeah, it's hard for me to judge, i'm not used to this class hardware


I recently got mine and I am really impressed with the soundstage.
Even if your HD660S aren't known to be the best for soundstage they are an open design so when paired with a good amp it has opened up their potential.
I tried a handful of different amps and the TA-ZH1ES is the one that stands out as having the most impressive soundstage. Every amp has different specs and tunings that will impact the sound and enhance different aspects of the sound and depending on synergy either work well with your headphones or not. I don't think the sound has been drastically manipulated to give the soundstage it is just minor enhancements here and there that give it that effect and I actually prefer that - like a photo that has been slightly enhanced by boosting the colours. You may find an amp with the most pure sound to be quite flat and unexciting.


----------



## Wikinaut

I always thought the soundstage was related to two factors: how open the headphones are and how easily the DAC/amp can move the speakers. The more effortless the motion of the headphone speakers, the more airy it will sound. Closed headphone seem to have an upper limit on how wide they can sound, but your partner or colleague will appreciate that you keep your music to yourself!


----------



## VladYR

I’d say your experience is quite normal, especially considering that you are making a comparatively huge leap from a sound card to a more or less high end dac/amp. The soundstage will appear quite large, particularly with open back Sennheiser headphones. I tried the HD800S couple of summers ago with this amp and they sounded like a lot of fun. As far as upscaling is concerned, you can’t really turn it off completely, unless you are playing DSD files. The amount of upscaling isn’t a lot, comparatively speaking. It’s not like connecting a Hugo M Scaler to a Chord Dave. That pairing sounds unmistakably different. Even if you activate the dsd remastering it’s still largely the same recording. How much difference there is between the naturally upscaled version and dsd remastered is hard to tell. I only listened to the latter. Still, you’re definitely going to thoroughly enjoy this. You might want to try getting an Audioquest Jitterbug FMJ. I got one a few days ago and I like the changes that it brings to the sound. Not huge but pleasantly noticeable.


----------



## bvhme

SubL0ck said:


> Unfortunately, there is no way to defeat the lag, so it's unusable for any sort of competetive gaming


I've tried adding multiple DACs to my new amp and making a group in Roon and I had to add a sync of -150ms to the Taz in order for it to be timed the same, so I guess that's about what your delay is. Too bad!


----------



## Roland P (May 28, 2021)

Does the type of connection (coax/toslink vs usb) affect the delay?


----------



## Hinomotocho (Jun 1, 2021)

Originally my quest for the TA-ZH1ES was as a step up from my WM1A for my MDR-Z1R but I have found that my ideal pairing is with the  IER-Z1R.
I don't like keeping gear if it is not being used but as my tastes and perceptions may change I don't want to let the MDR go.
I just bought a bluetooth receiver for my TA-ZH1ES and can get LDAC from my Nvidia Shield for movies etc and have found that I can take advantage of the 2m Sony Kimber to enjoy watching movies and can put my MDR-Z1R to good use. It may be the large drive overhead design makes them good for movies?


----------



## askeladden (Jun 2, 2021)

Why does it lag in gaming? Could it be related to upscaling features being enabled?

*edit* a search through the thread gave differing opinions, but it seems strange that it should lag.


----------



## VladYR

askeladden said:


> Why does it lag in gaming? Could it be related to upscaling features being enabled?
> 
> *edit* a search through the thread gave differing opinions, but it seems strange that it should lag.


It didn’t lag in any game that I played while I owned this amp. However, it might lag for some, as was mentioned above. If it is caused by upscaling, then there is really nothing to be done as one cannot fully disable it.


----------



## nc8000

VladYR said:


> It didn’t lag in any game that I played while I owned this amp. However, it might lag for some, as was mentioned above. If it is caused by upscaling, then there is really nothing to be done as one cannot fully disable it.


The problem seemed to only happen with super high frame rates


----------



## Hinomotocho

I use the recommended Walkman/dock/remote/AQ Carbon cable but find with my listening habits I prefer using PC/Foobar as I can see all artists which inspires to listen to tracks and albums I overlook and to quickly switch albums, also I can easily sample new music online and watch Youtube music videos Facebook friends have shared.
I understand the dock has components that improve the sound, are there any recommended steps to improve on PC as a source? Does a higher grade sound card or solid state hard drive help? AQ Jitterbug or iFi Purifier3? They both seemed to get shot down on that 'other' forum.


----------



## VladYR

Hinomotocho said:


> I use the recommended Walkman/dock/remote/AQ Carbon cable but find with my listening habits I prefer using PC/Foobar as I can see all artists which inspires to listen to tracks and albums I overlook and to quickly switch albums, also I can easily sample new music online and watch Youtube music videos Facebook friends have shared.
> I understand the dock has components that improve the sound, are there any recommended steps to improve on PC as a source? Does a higher grade sound card or solid state hard drive help? AQ Jitterbug or iFi Purifier3? They both seemed to get shot down on that 'other' forum.


I tried Foobar a few times and it just doesn’t really do anything useful for me. For one, it doesn’t seem to have exclusive mode. There were a few other odd things about it, like not playing at a correct frequency. I mainly use it for editing album art. If you really want to improve on the PC as a source, get Audirvana. It really does make a difference. An SSD should help beyond the considerations of speed. AQ Jitterbug makes a pleasant enough difference in my configuration also when playing from a Surfacebook.


----------



## Hinomotocho

VladYR said:


> I tried Foobar a few times and it just doesn’t really do anything useful for me. For one, it doesn’t seem to have exclusive mode. There were a few other odd things about it, like not playing at a correct frequency. I mainly use it for editing album art. If you really want to improve on the PC as a source, get Audirvana. It really does make a difference. An SSD should help beyond the considerations of speed. AQ Jitterbug makes a pleasant enough difference in my configuration also when playing from a Surfacebook.


Thanks for you input. 
I may be wrong but I seem to have Foobar outputting at the correct rates. I've been using it for years as the add on components make it very handy. I've heard great things about Audirvana so I'll look into it. Although relatively minor the TA-ZH1ES and IER-Z1R do show the improvements of the dock set up so I'll weigh up the costs of ssd and Jitterbug.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Do you have WASPI installed with Foobar2000?


----------



## Hinomotocho (Jun 3, 2021)

Redcarmoose said:


> Do you have WASPI installed with Foobar2000?


I did for a past portable amp/dac set up but I believe Sony uses ASIO, and from the memory RME ADI-2.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Now I remember, everytime I look into PC audio it opens a big can of worms, if there are some relatively simple steps I'll look into it, otherwise I'll just take advantage of the set up I have - it doesn't take much to swap from dock to PC. 
It would be a bonus if the dock could pass through the PC output to amp.


----------



## askeladden

How much longer do you guys think they will make these? Almost a 5 year old product now..


----------



## Redcarmoose

Do you remember to use the PC pass through in the dock? That way you can use everything hooked up all the time.


Hinomotocho said:


> Now I remember, everytime I look into PC audio it opens a big can of worms, if there are some relatively simple steps I'll look into it, otherwise I'll just take advantage of the set up I have - it doesn't take much to swap from dock to PC.
> It would be a bonus if the dock could pass through the PC output to amp.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Jun 3, 2021)

Redcarmoose said:


> Do you remember to use the PC pass through in the dock? That way you can use everything hooked up all the time.


You can do that? I bought the dock last year locally for a giveaway price but only started using the it recently. I think the online instructions are only in Japanese which exceeds my simplistic understanding. I assumed that the switch on the back meant it was one or the other.
Can you please tell me how this is achieved?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Do you remember to use the PC pass through in the dock? That way you can use everything hooked up all the time.


I use my TA for gaming and no lag.


----------



## Redcarmoose

@https://www.head-fi.org/members/hinomotocho.145148/

You take a mini-usb and plug it into the Cradle then run the regular USB to your computer. The switch on the back lets you choose if you want Walkman or PC as your input to the TA.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Jun 4, 2021)

Redcarmoose said:


> @https://www.head-fi.org/members/hinomotocho.145148/
> 
> You take a mini-usb and plug it into the Cradle then run the regular USB to your computer. The switch on the back lets you choose if you want Walkman or PC as your input to the TA.


Thank you, I have it hooked up to PC, maybe I misunderstood but I thought you were saying files from PC could be played back through the dock to the TA-ZH1ES? When you said passthrough did you mean transfer?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 4, 2021)

Hinomotocho said:


> Thank you, I have it hooked up to PC, maybe I misunderstood but I thought you were saying files from PC could be played back through the dock to the TA-ZH1ES? When you said passthrough did you mean transfer?


Yes, the Walkman in the Cradle and the PC going into the back of the Cradle. One direction is the Walkman as a source and switch the the other way enabling the PC to pass through. Put your finger into the only moving button on the back.


----------



## Redcarmoose

That is good to know there is zero lag with the TA! I never use it that way.


Gamerlingual said:


> I use my TA for gaming and no lag.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Redcarmoose said:


> Yes, the Walkman in the Cradle and the PC going into the back of the Cradle. One direction is the Walkman as a source and switch the the other way enabling the PC to pass through. Put your finger into the only moving button on the back.


Thank you very much, I had assumed it was purely for transfer of files.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 4, 2021)

It does both, you can add files to the Walkman, or play files on the PC. The Walkman shows up as a drive, though I never use it that way?

It was purportedly able to filter the Walkman to use the Walkman to playback files on the TA. Still I’m pretty sure the Cradle sounds best. Though another member later somehow showed there was no digital filtering, or at best could not find varied reports? Still the Walkman has a reduced noise than the PC. So I guess that is how I hear it as better? Still I can’t believe all that circuitry in for charging inside the cradle? I mean why would they need all that, when they don’t normally?

But maybe thing is what it takes to not use USB to charge?


----------



## nc8000

Redcarmoose said:


> That is good to know there is zero lag with the TA! I never use it that way.


It seems the lag reported earlier was with games at super high frame rates


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 4, 2021)

nc8000 said:


> It seems the lag reported earlier was with games at super high frame rates


Right, but most never have that issue. It was only at one setting, and a FPS. Normally not an issue.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Redcarmoose said:


> It does both, you can add files to the Walkman, or play files on the PC. The Walkman shows up as a drive, though I never use it that way?
> 
> It was purportedly able to filter the Walkman to use the Walkman to playback files on the TA. Still I’m pretty sure the Cradle sounds best. Though another member later somehow showed there was no digital filtering, or at best could not find varied reports? Still the Walkman has a reduced noise than the PC. So I guess that is how I hear it as better? Still I can’t believe all that circuitry in for charging inside the cradle? I mean why would they need all that, when they don’t normally?
> 
> But maybe thing is what it takes to not use USB to charge?


From what another member found from his modding of the dock and from a combination of my understanding of Japanese and Google translating there is some form of filtering from the components in that picture. Someone's measurements may show it does nothing, like the iFi filters and AQ Jitterbug, but I find it to be improved from my PC's USB output.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Hinomotocho said:


> From what another member found from his modding of the dock and from a combination of my understanding of Japanese and Google translating there is some form of filtering from the components in that picture. Someone's measurements may show it does nothing, like the iFi filters and AQ Jitterbug, but I find it to be improved from my PC's USB output.


Nice to know, yes, it’s something!


----------



## Redcarmoose

Hinomotocho said:


> From what another member found from his modding of the dock and from a combination of my understanding of Japanese and Google translating there is some form of filtering from the components in that picture. Someone's measurements may show it does nothing, like the iFi filters and AQ Jitterbug, but I find it to be improved from my PC's USB output.


Also it would be interesting if it filtered the PC too?


----------



## Hinomotocho

Almost all my music are CD flac or SACD dsf files displaying either PCM 44.1 > DSD 11.2 or DSD2.8 specs - connecting my Fiio BTA30 with optical streaming LDAC from my Nvidia Shield seems to show this regardless of the audio specs of the video file played. I checked that the BTA30 has upscaling switched off, does LDAC automatically trigger the 96kHz because that's it's so called maximum rate?


----------



## Tsiklon

Looks like your BTA is resampling the signal before sending it to the optical out.


----------



## VladYR

Hinomotocho said:


> Almost all my music are CD flac or SACD dsf files displaying either PCM 44.1 > DSD 11.2 or DSD2.8 specs - connecting my Fiio BTA30 with optical streaming LDAC from my Nvidia Shield seems to show this regardless of the audio specs of the video file played. I checked that the BTA30 has upscaling switched off, does LDAC automatically trigger the 96kHz because that's it's so called maximum rate?


That’s very strange indeed. When I had one of these, it displayed the frequency accurately, unless I connected a Samsung phone through usb. Those were always stuck on 48kHz regardless. I always used the remastering function. The tv was always connected through optical and it went from the usual 48kHz up to dsd12.2MHz. It might be an issue with your other device rather than the amp.


----------



## Tsiklon

VladYR said:


> That’s very strange indeed. When I had one of these, it displayed the frequency accurately, unless I connected a Samsung phone through usb. Those were always stuck on 48kHz regardless. I always used the remastering function. The tv was always connected through optical and it went from the usual 48kHz up to dsd12.2MHz. It might be an issue with your other device rather than the amp.



Android phones resample everything to 48kHz, what you saw was accurate


----------



## Hinomotocho

VladYR said:


> That’s very strange indeed. When I had one of these, it displayed the frequency accurately, unless I connected a Samsung phone through usb. Those were always stuck on 48kHz regardless. I always used the remastering function. The tv was always connected through optical and it went from the usual 48kHz up to dsd12.2MHz. It might be an issue with your other device rather than the amp.


I'll test with another Bluetooth device. Upsampling is definitely off and I can't see another setting in the app that would cause it. 


Tsiklon said:


> Android phones resample everything to 48kHz, what you saw was accurate


Is that natively, don't apps like USB Audio Player Pro allow bit perfect streaming via USB?


----------



## Hinomotocho

Tsiklon said:


> Looks like your BTA is resampling the signal before sending it to the optical out.


I checked the app settings and the upsampling was off, I'll see what turning it on does, I think upsampling is to 192


----------



## Tsiklon

Hinomotocho said:


> I'll test with another Bluetooth device. Upsampling is definitely off and I can't see another setting in the app that would cause it.
> 
> Is that natively, don't apps like USB Audio Player Pro allow bit perfect streaming via USB?



By default it’s all resampled, but as far as I am aware UAPP does use a different method and will give bit perfect output on supported devices


----------



## SubL0ck

Roland P said:


> Does the type of connection (coax/toslink vs usb) affect the delay?


Didn't test all the outputs, but Line In surely has even more delay than when used as a DAC.



askeladden said:


> Why does it lag in gaming? Could it be related to upscaling features being enabled?
> 
> *edit* a search through the thread gave differing opinions, but it seems strange that it should lag.


That's cos most people play single player games on lower refresh monitors. I have a 240Hz monitor and play fast paced online game like Quake Live. Any delay than is very noticable like this. I still can play lots of games like Witcher, Diablo, Dark Souls w/o any problems at all.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Most players are currently on 144HZ or even 60HZ. So 240HZ is rare, yes? 


SubL0ck said:


> Didn't test all the outputs, but Line In surely has even more delay than when used as a DAC.
> 
> 
> That's cos most people play single player games on lower refresh monitors. I have a 240Hz monitor and play fast paced online game like Quake Live. Any delay than is very noticable like this. I still can play lots of games like Witcher, Diablo, Dark Souls w/o any problems at all.


----------



## askeladden

SubL0ck said:


> That's cos most people play single player games on lower refresh monitors. I have a 240Hz monitor and play fast paced online game like Quake Live. Any delay than is very noticable like this. I still can play lots of games like Witcher, Diablo, Dark Souls w/o any problems at all.


Well that sucks. I have a 240hz monitor as well and mainly play FPS games.


----------



## VladYR

SubL0ck said:


> Didn't test all the outputs, but Line In surely has even more delay than when used as a DAC.
> 
> 
> That's cos most people play single player games on lower refresh monitors. I have a 240Hz monitor and play fast paced online game like Quake Live. Any delay than is very noticable like this. I still can play lots of games like Witcher, Diablo, Dark Souls w/o any problems at all.


The Line In input is actually one of the worst on that amp. Digital inputs work best. It’s there mostly for convenience.


----------



## nc8000

Redcarmoose said:


> Most players are currently on 144HZ or even 60HZ. So 240HZ is rare, yes?


240 probably didn’t even exist when the TA was designed. I’m still wondering if the problem is actually that the computer is the one introducing the delay and not the TA


----------



## Redcarmoose

Yes, I guess it would be an issue for some users who hook it to their computers....and have that refresh rate. That is fascinating that the computer could be somehow buffering to maybe get that rate. I’ll never need to try it, as I don’t play games with the TA. But can agree that it would be disheartening to have that happen.

https://www.head-fi.org/members/gamerlingual.531179/ say no lag ever I assume he doesn’t have that refresh rate?


----------



## larryzotter

Can the ta-zh1es power the 1266?


----------



## Nicolas Yance

larryzotter said:


> Can the ta-zh1es power the 1266?


I don't think so.


----------



## Hinomotocho

VladYR said:


> That’s very strange indeed. When I had one of these, it displayed the frequency accurately, unless I connected a Samsung phone through usb. Those were always stuck on 48kHz regardless. I always used the remastering function. The tv was always connected through optical and it went from the usual 48kHz up to dsd12.2MHz. It might be an issue with your other device rather than the amp.


I had a look at the developer bluetooth settings on my Shield and there is an output trigger rate that was set to 96kHz, changing it to default has it displaying the correct rate. Maybe I had set everything on max when I first got it - I don't know if I should set it on default? Would this affect how the TA-ZH1ES would upscale if it is tricked into receiving a 96kHz signal or does it upscale based on the actual signal?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Yes, I guess it would be an issue for some users who hook it to their computers....and have that refresh rate. That is fascinating that the computer could be somehow buffering to maybe get that rate. I’ll never need to try it, as I don’t play games with the TA. But can agree that it would be disheartening to have that happen.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/members/gamerlingual.531179/ say no lag ever I assume he doesn’t have that refresh rate?


My screen is 120 frames per second. I’ll test something later. Anything in particular? Just any intense game?


----------



## Redcarmoose

No we are just saying it may have problems with the 240 monitors?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> No we are just saying it may have problems with the 240 monitors?


Oh. Then that I can’t confirm


----------



## askeladden (Jun 11, 2021)

CS:GO with low settings and low resolution paired with a relatively new cpu should show any problems if they exist since the game engine is very old and can easily push above 240fps consistently.  Could be a bunch of variables that create the potential problem though. Seeing one post way back saying that he only experienced it with "high gain" and then reported not getting it anymore etc. There just isn't much data on the topic. A web search only gives the little relevant information that exists online from this thread.


----------



## askeladden

bdjul said:


> You can try. My experience was that when I plugged it in 1st time windows 10 just recognized it and set it up, but then I had delay especially on a high gain. After some time I installed a driver and update zh1es firmware and delay was gone.


Wondering if this might be the issue with reported sound lag when gaming.


----------



## SubL0ck

Hi/Lo gain switch didn't make any difference in my case.


----------



## askeladden

SubL0ck said:


> Hi/Lo gain switch didn't make any difference in my case.


It would seem strange if that was the cause. What about USB ports? Could also be a windows thing when coming to think about it.


----------



## askeladden

Umwelt said:


> Spent some time the past few days with the TA and various input and format combinations, as well as for video applications. A couple of observations that may save future users some time:
> 
> 1) Checking the sample frequency that the outputting device is feeding the TA is important for DSP settings (DSEE HX Upscaling, DSD Remastering) to take effect. Even if using compressed audio (mp3 files 320kbps or lower, variable bit rate mp3, etc.) and PCM 44.1khz (CD, flac files) sources, if the outputting device is set to a higher sampling frequency, then everything will be software upsampled before it reaches the TA, which may read it as a sampling rate to which DSP does not apply or is implemented differently. Lesson is, check the audio output settings on your PC, sound board, player, etc.
> 
> ...


This might be related to what we are currently discussing.


----------



## bvhme

If I listen to multiple DACs at the same time the Taz is always half a second or so later than the rest. There definetely is some sort of lag.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 11, 2021)

I don’t notice lag when on TV? If there was some sort of lag, it would make the TA unusable? Half a second? That would  be highly noticeable? I’m going to have to test this? 


bvhme said:


> If I listen to multiple DACs at the same time the Taz is always half a second or so later than the rest. There definetely is some sort of lag.


----------



## VladYR

Hinomotocho said:


> I had a look at the developer bluetooth settings on my Shield and there is an output trigger rate that was set to 96kHz, changing it to default has it displaying the correct rate. Maybe I had set everything on max when I first got it - I don't know if I should set it on default? Would this affect how the TA-ZH1ES would upscale if it is tricked into receiving a 96kHz signal or does it upscale based on the actual signal?


Setting the Shield to output at 96kHz through Bluetooth is kind of pointless given that this protocol is very limited and can’t even support cd quality. AptX comes closer but not quite. Setting it on default would probably work best. Isn’t there an optical output on it that you could use? It would upscale anything to 384 or 12.2dsd regardless of what you put into it.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Jun 11, 2021)

VladYR said:


> Setting the Shield to output at 96kHz through Bluetooth is kind of pointless given that this protocol is very limited and can’t even support cd quality. AptX comes closer but not quite. Setting it on default would probably work best. Isn’t there an optical output on it that you could use? It would upscale anything to 384 or 12.2dsd regardless of what you put into it.


My Shield > TV are across the room from my desk where my TA-ZH1ES is, that's why I got the BTA30 to connect using bluetooth.
For some reason default keeps resetting to LDAC? It seems I can only set SBC, AAC or LDAC - as I was hoping to get the best out of my blu-ray rips I thought LDAC was the highest quality. I know the amp does a fine job upscaling but figured that a higher bit rate signal from the blu-ray soundtrack  would have more info or detail for it to scale up, currently it would appear to be downscaled if using SBC or AAC to 44.1.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Hinomotocho said:


> My Shield > TV are across the room from my desk where my TA-ZH1ES is, that's why I got the BTA30 to connect using bluetooth.
> For some reason default keeps resetting to LDAC? It seems I can only set SBC, AAC or LDAC - as I was hoping to get the best out of my blu-ray rips I thought LDAC was the highest quality. I know the amp does a fine job upscaling but figured that a higher bit rate signal from the blu-ray soundtrack  would have more info or detail for it to scale up, currently it would appear to be downscaled if using SBC or AAC to 44.1.


SBC is just yuck. Hope it works out for you.


----------



## nc8000

Hinomotocho said:


> My Shield > TV are across the room from my desk where my TA-ZH1ES is, that's why I got the BTA30 to connect using bluetooth.
> For some reason default keeps resetting to LDAC? It seems I can only set SBC, AAC or LDAC - as I was hoping to get the best out of my blu-ray rips I thought LDAC was the highest quality. I know the amp does a fine job upscaling but figured that a higher bit rate signal from the blu-ray soundtrack  would have more info or detail for it to scale up, currently it would appear to be downscaled if using SBC or AAC to 44.1.


I run an optical cable along the skirting boards from my tv to the TA


----------



## SubL0ck

askeladden said:


> It would seem strange if that was the cause. What about USB ports? Could also be a windows thing when coming to think about it.


Tried USB 3.0 and USB 2.0. No difference.


----------



## bvhme

bvhme said:


> If I listen to multiple DACs at the same time the Taz is always half a second or so later than the rest. There definetely is some sort of lag.


I was exaggerating, I have my Roon multi-device set up set to -150ms delay the Taz, the delay to my ears seems to be between 100 and 200 milliseconds. I have multiple DACs connected to the same amp so I can switch between them and compare, the Taz is the only one that does this.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Tested my TA using the MDR-1AM2 playing Doom Eternal and Street Fighter 5, and not ONE hint of lag at all.


----------



## SubL0ck

The lag is there nontheless.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jun 11, 2021)

SubL0ck said:


> The lag is there nontheless.


It is only there on your high refresh rate monitor, nowhere else for anyone else. And.....only on one setting on that monitor? For all you know it could even be caused by the computer?

You have witnessed a rare phenomenon......like seeing a ghost!


----------



## Redcarmoose

bvhme said:


> I was exaggerating, I have my Roon multi-device set up set to -150ms delay the Taz, the delay to my ears seems to be between 100 and 200 milliseconds. I have multiple DACs connected to the same amp so I can switch between them and compare, the Taz is the only one that does this.


Why exaggerate?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Gamerlingual said:


> Tested my TA using the MDR-1AM2 playing Doom Eternal and Street Fighter 5, and not ONE hint of lag at all.


Thank-you!


----------



## Hinomotocho

Gamerlingual said:


> SBC is just yuck. Hope it works out for you.


Yes, it would be a crime to feed TOTL gear that, I'll avoid that one at all costs. Sadly when I tested my Samsung S10 the other day that was the only selectable option in the developer settings 


nc8000 said:


> I run an optical cable along the skirting boards from my tv to the TA


Thanks, I saw your post the other day and I looked into the maximum length for optical, I will see if it can work for my situation.


----------



## VladYR

Hinomotocho said:


> My Shield > TV are across the room from my desk where my TA-ZH1ES is, that's why I got the BTA30 to connect using bluetooth.
> For some reason default keeps resetting to LDAC? It seems I can only set SBC, AAC or LDAC - as I was hoping to get the best out of my blu-ray rips I thought LDAC was the highest quality. I know the amp does a fine job upscaling but figured that a higher bit rate signal from the blu-ray soundtrack  would have more info or detail for it to scale up, currently it would appear to be downscaled if using SBC or AAC to 44.1.


I would just get a very long optical cable for this configuration. My tv was across the room from the desk on which my TA was on. It solved the problem quite nicely. I just ran the cable along the walls. Once the tv and the TA were gone I removed the cables and put them in storag.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Absolutely zero lag optical from TV with movies?


----------



## domiji

Hello  

Does anyone know what output power the TA-ZH1ES produce at 300 Ohms? 

I may want to use it with a ZMF Auteur (97db).

Best
Dominik


----------



## VladYR

domiji said:


> Hello
> 
> Does anyone know what output power the TA-ZH1ES produce at 300 Ohms?
> 
> ...


Here are some stats on its power output:


Balanced: 1,200 mW + 1,200 mW (32 ohms 1 kHz 1%) 
0.17" (4.4mm) single balanced headphone jack 
two 3-pole mini headphone balanced headphone jacks
XLR4 balanced 4-pin headphone jack

Unbalanced: 300 mW + 300 mW (32 ohms 1 kHz 1%)
1/8" (3.5mm) unbalanced headphone jack
1/4" (6.3mm) unbalanced headphone jack


----------



## domiji (Jun 13, 2021)

Thank you very much 

Sadly i cant find any information for the Power output at 300 Ohms anywhere on the web 

I am afraid that it does not delive enough Power for my ZMFs 😅


----------



## Rob49 (Jun 13, 2021)

Hi guys, I want to connect my iPad to my TA. There appears to be more than one Apple adapter. Is there one specific one I need & would I need to buy a powered USB Hub, also ?

Edit : I just purchased the multi port adapter.


----------



## nc8000

domiji said:


> Thank you very much
> 
> Sadly i cant find any information for the Power output at 300 Ohms anywhere on the web
> 
> I am afraid that it does not delive enough Power for my ZMFs 😅


As I understand the power halfs every time you double the ohm så would be about 130 mW on balanced. For what it’s worth the TA could not handle the HE-6


----------



## VladYR

domiji said:


> Thank you very much
> 
> Sadly i cant find any information for the Power output at 300 Ohms anywhere on the web
> 
> I am afraid that it does not delive enough Power for my ZMFs 😅


A while back a dealer loaned me a pair of Sennheiser HD800S, which are 300 ohms. They had a single ended plug. I was worried the TA wouldn’t be powerful enough on this output but it wasn’t the case. It was plenty loud and sounded quite nice. It would have likely sounded even better on the balanced where there is about 4 times more power and a few other benefits.


----------



## VladYR

Rob49 said:


> Hi guys, I want to connect my iPad to my TA. There appears to be more than one Apple adapter. Is there one specific one I need & would I need to buy a powered USB Hub, also ?
> 
> Edit : I just purchased the multi port adapter.


The camera adapter works fine for me. If you need just the signal, a powered hub is not necessary or desirable as it would introduce noise.


----------



## Rob49

VladYR said:


> The camera adapter works fine for me. If you need just the signal, a powered hub is not necessary or desirable as it would introduce noise.



Thank you for your reply. I thought the multiple port would obviously give the added usage. Pleased I won’t need a powered hub.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Bit perfect playback or transport of audio files with my WM1A or PC is easily achievable, recently I looked into connecting my TA-ZH1ES to my TV or Nvidia Shield which is 4 metres across the room and have found that achieving the highest bitrate/output of the audio tracks of blu-ray discs or rips is not as easy as I had expected. 
For bluetooth I can connect using LDAC but the developer settings has me unsure of what is actual output vs forced or triggered so I tried optical only to find it is a downscaled 48kHz. Either way it still sounds great but since we own high end gear and we mostly opt to achieve the highest quality we can avoiding too much resampling I am a bit disappointed it is not a straightforward process. I understand android automatically resames to 44.1 or 48 but USB Audio Player can output bit perfect, is there any android video player that can achieve the same for video audio soundtracks?


----------



## JerryHead

Can anyone recommend some nice sounding small desktop speakers that would be powered well by the TA?  Also, what exactly goes between the speaker wire and the TA?  as there are no "+" and "-" terminals on the TA to wrap the wire around..


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> Can anyone recommend some nice sounding small desktop speakers that would be powered well by the TA?  Also, what exactly goes between the speaker wire and the TA?  as there are no "+" and "-" terminals on the TA to wrap the wire around..


You would have to use active speakers as the TA can only supply a line signal not a speaker signal. I have for 6-7 years used Adam A3X for this kind of purpose, though with my pc, not with the TA


----------



## Lookout57

JerryHead said:


> Can anyone recommend some nice sounding small desktop speakers that would be powered well by the TA?  Also, what exactly goes between the speaker wire and the TA?  as there are no "+" and "-" terminals on the TA to wrap the wire around..


I'm using the Audioengine A5+ Powered Speakers and S8 Powered Subwoofer on the TA in my office.


----------



## JerryHead

Lookout57 said:


> I'm using the Audioengine A5+ Powered Speakers and S8 Powered Subwoofer on the TA in my office.


Hey thanks, I like the idea of these speakers, and the affordability too.  So, is the TA providing the amp and DAC when you connect these to the TA with simple analog cables?  Second question:  are you connecting these to your PC?  And if so, what are you using for a mic if you’re speaking to someone through your computer and hearing them through these speakers?  Thanks


----------



## Lookout57

You use the preamp out RCA jacks from the TA to the left speaker. If you go for the subwoofer it also connects to the left speaker via a supplied RCA cable. The right speaker connects to the left speaker via a normal speaker cable.

I have my WM1A in a dock connected to the PC USB in port and my computer to the Walkman micro USB. I don't use a microphone on this computer but you could connect any microphone to the microphone jack on the computer. 

In my setup I either listen to the WM1A or something on the computer.


----------



## JerryHead

Lookout57 said:


> You use the preamp out RCA jacks from the TA to the left speaker. If you go for the subwoofer it also connects to the left speaker via a supplied RCA cable. The right speaker connects to the left speaker via a normal speaker cable.
> 
> I have my WM1A in a dock connected to the PC USB in port and my computer to the Walkman micro USB. I don't use a microphone on this computer but you could connect any microphone to the microphone jack on the computer.
> 
> In my setup I either listen to the WM1A or something on the computer.


Okay, thanks, but sorry, I'm not understanding how you're connecting the TA to your computer.  You have a cable (which?) going from the USB in port on the PC to the Walkman port on the TA?


----------



## Lookout57

JerryHead said:


> Okay, thanks, but sorry, I'm not understanding how you're connecting the TA to your computer.  You have a cable (which?) going from the USB in port on the PC to the Walkman port on the TA?


Correct


----------



## nc8000

JerryHead said:


> Okay, thanks, but sorry, I'm not understanding how you're connecting the TA to your computer.  You have a cable (which?) going from the USB in port on the PC to the Walkman port on the TA?


You can either use the standard usb port at the back of the TA or the Walkman port on the side of the TA (which is a standard micro usb port plus an extra port for power if used with a Walkman)


----------



## Lookout57

FYI, the PC USB port can handle higher bit rates than the Walkman port.


----------



## JerryHead

nc8000 said:


> You can either use the standard usb port at the back of the TA or the Walkman port on the side of the TA (which is a standard micro usb port plus an extra port for power if used with a Walkman)


Ah, okay, got it!  And yes, the USB-B port on the back of the TA will be what I will choose. Thanks for all the explanations!  I think I'll buy those speakers if I decide to go forward with this setup.


----------



## vinz.ang

Hi, have anyone tried on use external DAC (such as Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro MQA) and then the TA act just as an amplifier? I am currently using the MDR-Z1R, source mainly Tidal through Audirvana in iMac.


----------



## nc8000

vinz.ang said:


> Hi, have anyone tried on use external DAC (such as Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro MQA) and then the TA act just as an amplifier? I am currently using the MDR-Z1R, source mainly Tidal through Audirvana in iMac.


You'll go through a lot of conversion as the TA converts incoming analog signals to digital and then back to analog for the headphone out


----------



## vinz.ang

nc8000 said:


> You'll go through a lot of conversion as the TA converts incoming analog signals to digital and then back to analog for the headphone out


Does it affect the sound quality in some way? Or it may improve the sound quality? As TA is DAC/Amp, I guess that’s the path of upgrading to separate DAC and Amp. 😂


----------



## VladYR

vinz.ang said:


> Does it affect the sound quality in some way? Or it may improve the sound quality? As TA is DAC/Amp, I guess that’s the path of upgrading to separate DAC and Amp. 😂


It does affect the sound quality to a degree. Using its rca inputs is measurably worse than the digital inputs. Depending on how you do it, it might sound quite pleasant but TA’s usb or coax input with a really great source will sound better. Separate dacs and amps are not necessarily better. That path is usually more expensive and you really have to match both well for worthwhile results and then find the headphones that work well with those two things. Personally, I prefer fewer boxes and cables.


----------



## Hinomotocho

I have the Walkman dock as my main source set up but for quick listening sessions and being able to utilize androids 'add to queue' and faster playlist feature I was considering using my Samsung S10 with an OTG adapter, I have USB Audio Player Pro which outputs bit prefect. What is the opinion of android as a source playing files off SD card? Better than PC?


----------



## VladYR

Hinomotocho said:


> I have the Walkman dock as my main source set up but for quick listening sessions and being able to utilize androids 'add to queue' and faster playlist feature I was considering using my Samsung S10 with an OTG adapter, I have USB Audio Player Pro which outputs bit prefect. What is the opinion of android as a source playing files off SD card? Better than PC?


Using Samsung phones as a source is not a solution. I spoke with an Audioquest rep when I first got into this hobby with the Dragonfly Red and he told me that Samsung phones have this ongoing issue where they output 48kHz regardless of what the files are. In my experience with the Note 8 there was also a good deal of cracklings noise on high resolution files. It’s not going to be better than pc for sure. Just get Audirvana and you’ll be quite satisfied.


----------



## kefs

Hinomotocho said:


> I have the Walkman dock as my main source set up but for quick listening sessions and being able to utilize androids 'add to queue' and faster playlist feature I was considering using my Samsung S10 with an OTG adapter, I have USB Audio Player Pro which outputs bit prefect. What is the opinion of android as a source playing files off SD card? Better than PC?


I use otg cable from my LG V60 phone into the walkman input, and for me has a very slight edge over the same FLAC files and Qobuz than the USB B from my pc. Both use the same quality cable too.


----------



## Hinomotocho

VladYR said:


> Using Samsung phones as a source is not a solution. I spoke with an Audioquest rep when I first got into this hobby with the Dragonfly Red and he told me that Samsung phones have this ongoing issue where they output 48kHz regardless of what the files are. In my experience with the Note 8 there was also a good deal of cracklings noise on high resolution files. It’s not going to be better than pc for sure. Just get Audirvana and you’ll be quite satisfied.


Between my S10 and Nvidia Shield android audio output has been a disappointment for me - I don't know what Samsung are up to?
I just had a thought that for a quick listen instead of firing up my PC or 1A my phone would offer a quicker way to whip up a spur of the moment playlist. 
I'll keep Audirvana in mind thanks, for now I seem to have Foobar configured well.


----------



## VladYR

Hinomotocho said:


> Between my S10 and Nvidia Shield android audio output has been a disappointment for me - I don't know what Samsung are up to?
> I just had a thought that for a quick listen instead of firing up my PC or 1A my phone would offer a quicker way to whip up a spur of the moment playlist.
> I'll keep Audirvana in mind thanks, for now I seem to have Foobar configured well.


If you have an iPad or an iPhone, those don’t seem to have the problems that Samsung suffers from. All either of those would require is the camera adapter And your choice of either streaming service or a player with built in storage for your files. I’m seriously considering getting an Innuos server for my streamer and perhaps a usb reclocker. Good thing I don’t have kids yet 🤣😂 This hobby is proving to be just as expensive.


----------



## Hinomotocho

VladYR said:


> If you have an iPad or an iPhone, those don’t seem to have the problems that Samsung suffers from. All either of those would require is the camera adapter And your choice of either streaming service or a player with built in storage for your files. I’m seriously considering getting an Innuos server for my streamer and perhaps a usb reclocker. Good thing I don’t have kids yet 🤣😂 This hobby is proving to be just as expensive.


Yep, I've spent the big bucks on the main components, now I'm into the diminishing returns area of sources and cables etc. 
I'm team android, I do have a Mi tablet but prefer to carry all my music on my phone. 
I got home from work and tried my S10 - it showed 48/24 correctly for one album and 192/24 correctly for another. It seems 44/16 gets upscaled to 48/24 and dsf 96/24 display as 192/24. I don't know what is going on there but it wasn't locked on 48/24 like you had experienced and there were no pops or crackling - I only tried very quickly but it didn't seem to sound very good, like some resampling was going on and that was using USB Audio Pro with bit perfect settings.


----------



## Mystyler

VladYR said:


> If you have an iPad or an iPhone, those don’t seem to have the problems that Samsung suffers from. All either of those would require is the camera adapter And your choice of either streaming service or a player with built in storage for your files. I’m seriously considering getting an Innuos server for my streamer and perhaps a usb reclocker. Good thing I don’t have kids yet 🤣😂 This hobby is proving to be just as expensive.



G'day VladYR,

I'm looking to put an old iPad back into use as a streaming device. From what I can gather, you can connect one up to the TA via USB no worries?


----------



## Tsiklon

Mystyler said:


> G'day VladYR,
> 
> I'm looking to put an old iPad back into use as a streaming device. From what I can gather, you can connect one up to the TA via USB no worries?



i use an iPad with mine, using the USB 3 camera connection kit, connecting to the Walkman port on the side of TA-ZH1ES, via a USB A to micro USB cable


----------



## Mystyler

Tsiklon said:


> i use an iPad with mine, using the USB 3 camera connection kit, connecting to the Walkman port on the side of TA-ZH1ES, via a USB A to micro USB cable



Tsiklon, thank you. So it can be done. I've not really dabbled in USB audio in any meaningful way. I guess it's a basic question, but I've been out of this game for a while and to say it has moved on is an understatement indeed.


----------



## VladYR

Mystyler said:


> G'day VladYR,
> 
> I'm looking to put an old iPad back into use as a streaming device. From what I can gather, you can connect one up to the TA via USB no worries?


Yes, it works like a charm for me, but it’s not my main streaming device. I only use it to quickly burn in cables or new components that require 100+ hours to sound their best. I just leave it on for a week and the process takes care of itself. But the sound quality is decent. You can potentially improve it with Audioquest Jitterbug. As someone mentioned, you can do either the Walkman port or the usb b on the back. I tried both.


----------



## Mystyler

VladYR said:


> Yes, it works like a charm for me, but it’s not my main streaming device. I only use it to quickly burn in cables or new components that require 100+ hours to sound their best. I just leave it on for a week and the process takes care of itself. But the sound quality is decent. You can potentially improve it with Audioquest Jitterbug. As someone mentioned, you can do either the Walkman port or the usb b on the back. I tried both.



Thank you VladYR. I had read about 260 pages of this thread before asking the question, only to find it was asked a few pages back...!

I also have a ZX507 DAP. It doesn't have the greatest battery life while you are running the screen and streaming at the same time. I figure since I've got two old work iPads sitting around doing very little, I'd hammer the battery on them over the ZX507. 

It also appears that the TA has been discontinued by Sony in Australia. It's this the case in any other countries? Has a successor been announced? Regardless, I can't find much info. 


M


----------



## VladYR

Mystyler said:


> Thank you VladYR. I had read about 260 pages of this thread before asking the question, only to find it was asked a few pages back...!
> 
> I also have a ZX507 DAP. It doesn't have the greatest battery life while you are running the screen and streaming at the same time. I figure since I've got two old work iPads sitting around doing very little, I'd hammer the battery on them over the ZX507.
> 
> ...


My usual dealer told me a few weeks ago that the Z1R headphones were recently discontinued. Now the TA is being retired? This is truly bizarre unless they have some substantially improved replacements. Honestly though, the TA was great. It didn’t really lack anything. The somewhat noticeable lack of MQA support was not a problem, especially in light of the recent scandal involving Tidal and that utterly useless file format and its creators/owners.


----------



## nc8000

VladYR said:


> My usual dealer told me a few weeks ago that the Z1R headphones were recently discontinued. Now the TA is being retired? This is truly bizarre unless they have some substantially improved replacements. Honestly though, the TA was great. It didn’t really lack anything. The somewhat noticeable lack of MQA support was not a problem, especially in light of the recent scandal involving Tidal and that utterly useless file format and its creators/owners.


What is the scandal ?


----------



## VladYR

nc8000 said:


> What is the scandal ?


Essentially that the format is demonstrably lossy, needlessly upsamples high res files to resolutions in which they were never recorded, and that MQA files stripped of some of the data contained in them will still prompt a blue light. A member of this forum published some tracks on tidal, did some testing and found this format to be utterly fraudulent, which wasn’t really a surprise to many.


----------



## askeladden

VladYR said:


> My usual dealer told me a few weeks ago that the Z1R headphones were recently discontinued. Now the TA is being retired? This is truly bizarre unless they have some substantially improved replacements. Honestly though, the TA was great. It didn’t really lack anything. The somewhat noticeable lack of MQA support was not a problem, especially in light of the recent scandal involving Tidal and that utterly useless file format and its creators/owners.


This explains why a bunch of z1rs got listed brand new for some $1200 a pop on ebay a short while back.. clearance probably, japanese sellers.


----------



## VladYR

askeladden said:


> This explains why a bunch of z1rs got listed brand new for some $1200 a pop on ebay a short while back.. clearance probably, japanese sellers.


I traded in mine towards an M Scaler. It was a good time to get rid of it I suppose.


----------



## Redcarmoose

VladYR said:


> I traded in mine towards an M Scaler. It was a good time to get rid of it I suppose.


----------



## Mystyler

VladYR said:


> My usual dealer told me a few weeks ago that the Z1R headphones were recently discontinued. Now the TA is being retired?



Ah fer f...really?! 

So I'd either better get a wriggle on and stump up for the Z1Rs *and *the TA in one hit or attempt to snag some clearance sales.

I really hope they're just at the end of a product cycle. Their recievers and upper level turntables are listed as discontinued here as well.


----------



## IcYSh0cKz

hi, i would like to ask how long should i use my ta-zh1es? i had a previous model uda-1 and lasted 5 years, using it almost 12hrs daily. i googled up the lifetime of a amp should be around 10years and should b using 2-6hrs per day?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jul 14, 2021)

IcYSh0cKz said:


> hi, i would like to ask how long should i use my ta-zh1es? i had a previous model uda-1 and lasted 5 years, using it almost 12hrs daily. i googled up the lifetime of a amp should be around 10years and should b using 2-6hrs per day?


Some capacitors will start to have issues after twenty years. Often people still use them after that. Still I would guess twenty years before some service needs to be done......then your free to still continue using it. I wound not worry much, even with that daily use. Don’t know what Google is referring too?


----------



## IcYSh0cKz

Thanks
The uda-1 that i owned, having problems connecting(rear usb) to the computer(no sound at all, can't detect device), whereas the other ports like opt and front usb has no problem at all. i mainly using uda-1 for ps4 ps3 and pc. i'm changing to ta-zh1es and hope long hrs of usage won't have the same problem as uda-1.


----------



## Redcarmoose

IcYSh0cKz said:


> hi, i would like to ask how long should i use my ta-zh1es? i had a previous model uda-1 and lasted 5 years, using it almost 12hrs daily. i googled up the lifetime of a amp should be around 10years and should b using 2-6hrs per day?


Just Googled it myself?


----------



## Redcarmoose

https://www.sony.com.my/electronics/audio-components/uda-1


IcYSh0cKz said:


> Thanks
> The uda-1 that i owned, having problems connecting(rear usb) to the computer(no sound at all, can't detect device), whereas the other ports like opt and front usb has no problem at all. i mainly using uda-1 for ps4 ps3 and pc. i'm changing to ta-zh1es and hope long hrs of usage won't have the same problem as uda-1.


Right, that may have been a problem with just the USB connection. But that’s not the whole amplifier? Did you ever take it in for repairs?


----------



## IcYSh0cKz

Redcarmoose said:


> Just Googled it myself?





this is what i get on the 1st result, there're a lot of other reviews and forums stating amp lasting for more then 50 years too. 
anyway thanks, i guess i'll have to take extra care to my amp from now on.


----------



## IcYSh0cKz (Jul 14, 2021)

Redcarmoose said:


> https://www.sony.com.my/electronics/audio-components/uda-1
> 
> Right, that may have been a problem with just the USB connection. But that’s not the whole amplifier? Did you ever take it in for repairs?


the repairs is not worth the price actually. uda-1 cost around 700usd and the repair for it was 200usd(excluding the extra cost as the service centre couldn't quote the exact price). i rather just get a upgrade to ta-zh1es which i'm aimming for years ago. haha.. jus curious on actually how long will it last.. and hopefully not as short as my uda-1

i changed to a different usb cable, tried plugging into 3 different computer and still doesn't work. probably the amp rear usb died


----------



## IcYSh0cKz (Jul 14, 2021)

dbl posting sorry

i just called in sony service centre, they told me that ta-zh1es is build-to-order, and all the upgrade cables (even 4.4mm cables) are all discontinued. omg


----------



## Redcarmoose

@https://www.head-fi.org/members/icysh0ckz.458765/
I believe the USB problem. As a connection maybe it’s not that great, in terms of dependably? But still too bad you can’t have some small town guy just replace the USB socket? So do you still ever use it, use the front USB?


----------



## IcYSh0cKz

Redcarmoose said:


> @https://www.head-fi.org/members/icysh0ckz.458765/
> I believe the USB problem. As a connection maybe it’s not that great, in terms of dependably? But still too bad you can’t have some small town guy just replace the USB socket? So do you still ever use it, use the front USB?


I have no idea where to repair in my country except service centre, front usb can't run thru comp, must be rear usb


----------



## Gamerlingual

Good luck on the amp repair


----------



## Hinomotocho

Tell me, am I the only one who has ever mistakenly plugged a single 3.5mm into one of the twin 3.5mm balanced outputs? In my defence I had recently moved my amp under my desk to gain desktop space, also I had only used 3.5mm once before so lost my bearings in the dim light. I was very relieved when I realised my error - in about 10 seconds my mind raced: this doesn't sound right > ah 3.5mm is so much worse than 4.4mm > Houston we have a problem > oh, wrong output you dick


----------



## Hinomotocho (Jul 29, 2021)

I'm in utter shock after boredom lead me into my local Sony shop and seeing both the TA-ZH1ES and DMP-Z1 (demo only) - I never ever thought I'd see them on these shores.

20 years ago when the Sony shop opened in my city it had everything but in recent years it has scaled down to cameras, TVs and the lower end audio gear, I'm surprised they even have the ZX507.
For all the Sony products I own(ed) and the money I've spent I've had to source from overseas as they won't do special orders or even bulk massdrop-like orders for others like myself so I just don't bother going in.

They said I could demo but as tempting as it is I don't want to take anything away from my TA-ZH1ES as the DMP-Z1 is priced way beyond what I could justify spending.
I had seen it before when I was in Japan when the Umeda e earphone store in Osaka got their first store model, I had also declined an offer to listen. After seeing pictures of it for years I had forgotten how stunning it looks, especially next to the mighty TA-ZH1ES.


----------



## nc8000




----------



## heysoulman

Hi, anyone who know the zh1es is working fine on mac m1?


----------



## werewolff9

heysoulman said:


> Hi, anyone who know the zh1es is working fine on mac m1?


perfect on macbook pro m1 👍


----------



## heysoulman

werewolff9 said:


> perfect on macbook pro m1 👍


Thanks!!!!


----------



## Mystyler

nc8000 said:


>



G'day nc8000, 

Looks like you've done what I'm considering to do: go wireless. 

Would I be correct in thinking that your Auralic is used to stream from your music platform of choice? I've been looking at the Yamaha WXC-50 instead of the Auralic. Have you simply connected it via TOS/COAX to your TA?

I'm currently streaming Deezer via a first gen iPad Air to the TA's rear USB input. 

Thank you! 


M.


----------



## nc8000 (Aug 14, 2021)

Mystyler said:


> G'day nc8000,
> 
> Looks like you've done what I'm considering to do: go wireless.
> 
> ...


My Auralic has a build in 4 TB ssd that holds all my music plus a native full mqa enabled Tidal client all controlled by a really good app on my iPhone. It can also access various off board storage locations though I’ve never tried it, I bought it specifically because it can have on board storage. It is connected to the TA via a short usb cable a friend of mine has build. The optical in on the TA comes from the bed room tv


----------



## Mystyler

Close, but no cigar then! Thank you nc8000. Pretty well all of my collection has been archived. Just on physical a medium called MiniDisc. While I admire what ATRAC managed to do, I don’t fancy converting what is mainly compressed audio to FLAC and using HDD storage. I guess the search continues!

Thanks for your reply. 

M.


----------



## Sanlitun (Aug 23, 2021)

Has anyone ever come across anything about what filter the TA-ZH1ES is using for PCM? It sounds a bit like the linear slow roll off filter of the Sabre 9038 but not just quite as rolled off. Maybe the trademark sound is just due to the upsampling.


----------



## nc8000

Sanlitun said:


> Has anyone ever come across anything about what filter the TA-ZH1ES is using for PCM? It sounds a bit like the linear slow roll off filter of the Sabre 9038 but not just quite as rolled off. Maybe the trademark sound is just due to the upsampling.


I don’t think there is a filter as such. It is Sony’s own S-master and fpga design


----------



## Sanlitun (Aug 23, 2021)

nc8000 said:


> I don’t think there is a filter as such. It is Sony’s own S-master and fpga design


I suppose the way they upsample eveything means the filter is not as crucial. I gather it is a linear filter but I have never seen measurements for the TA.

I am putting together a second system using a newer DAC and a Class A amp and trying to get a similar sound to the Sony. On an ES 9038PRO DAC the slow linear filter is closest, but it is slightly more rolled off than the TA. The fast linear Sabre filter is too bright/brittle.

Doing some comparisons and shootouts you can see how well Sony has tuned the sound. It really shines with lower bitrate media 16/44 and YouTube video etc.

I have a SMSL SU-9 and an older OG Burson Soloist and the sound is pretty impressive and stands as an interesting similar yet different system thean the Sony.


----------



## kefs

Are planars (GL2000) driven ok with the TA?


----------



## nc8000

kefs said:


> Are planars (GL2000) driven ok with the TA?


The HE-6 was not but then again I did not expect it to be


----------



## kefs

nc8000 said:


> The HE-6 was not but then again I did not expect it to be


Just about to pull the pin on some, just need a heads up. Thank you


----------



## Rence

It drives Arya OK. I dont feel I need to upgrade from this because I love the form/convenience factor. I run them through balanced XLR4.


----------



## Rurouni

Sanlitun said:


> I suppose the way they upsample eveything means the filter is not as crucial. I gather it is a linear filter but I have never seen measurements for the TA.
> 
> I am putting together a second system using a newer DAC and a Class A amp and trying to get a similar sound to the Sony. On an ES 9038PRO DAC the slow linear filter is closest, but it is slightly more rolled off than the TA. The fast linear Sabre filter is too bright/brittle.
> 
> ...


Agree. I use the Tazzy with DSD up scaling switched on and spend hours on YT discovering  and enjoying music


----------



## Hellraiser86

I am selling my unit inclusive the walkman cradle and the remote. So if anyone is interested 

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/sony-ta-zh1es-craddle-bcr-nwh10-remote-rmt-nws20.11223/


----------



## askeladden

So no news about a new signature series? I'm considering the tazzy for its myriad of outputs, but if they have something in the works it's probably better to wait a little.


----------



## nc8000

askeladden said:


> So no news about a new signature series? I'm considering the tazzy for its myriad of outputs, but if they have something in the works it's probably better to wait a little.


Nothing has even been rumoured


----------



## askeladden

nc8000 said:


> Nothing has even been rumoured


The leaked photos from a couple of months back makes me think that they are working on something though.


----------



## nc8000

askeladden said:


> The leaked photos from a couple of months back makes me think that they are working on something though.


I never saw those


----------



## askeladden

https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2021/07/possible-sony-wm1-series-successor.html


----------



## nc8000

askeladden said:


> https://thewalkmanblog.blogspot.com/2021/07/possible-sony-wm1-series-successor.html


Those I saw, I thought you were talking about a TA successor


----------



## askeladden

I'm thinking they will probably update the entire signature line, but they could of course skip the tazzy as it does hold up and is an unique product. Seems like Sony is good at hiding their plans.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Sep 22, 2021)

askeladden said:


> I'm thinking they will probably update the entire signature line, but they could of course skip the tazzy as it does hold up and is an unique product. Seems like Sony is good at hiding their plans.


I think the TA-ZH1ES was part of their 70th Anniversary range, if the Walkman leaks are true I wouldn't necessarily expect the TA or DMP to have successors with their track record - I might be wrong.


----------



## askeladden

Somewhat related: The tazzy is out of stock and the mdr-z1r is on sale on sony.com

The walkmen (walkmans?) are clearly the most outdated piece of equipment in their lineup now that everbody expects to use all sorts of streaming services and sony not updating it would be out of character.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Sep 29, 2021)

This is just a TA-ZH1ES appreciation post.
Yesterday I came across an album I hadn't listened to since getting my TA and it sounded incredible and gave me a refreshed love and respect for it.

I'm quite minimalist and historically I was happy keeping it simple with just an iem and Walkman but last year I took that goddamn blue pill and added overheads (MDR-Z1R) and the TA-ZH1ES with add ons (upgraded power and USB cables). Every now and again my minimalist part asks 'shall we sell the amp and upgrade my 1A to the 1Z' but everytime I listen to the TA I absolutely can't let it go. My WM1A with Mr Walkman's firmwares is sounding superb but I get another level of enjoyment with my TA-ZH1ES.

Often upgrades get given the estimated 10% improvement figure eg. ZX300 > WM1A, WM1A > WM1Z, WM1Z > TA-ZH1ES, TA-ZH1ES > DMP-Z1 and I can agree, but then I feel there is another way that that figure can increase, potentially exponentially.

Where attention goes energy flows ie. focus.

Socks are maybe 5% of your overall clothing - I recently bought new ones to replace the ones I usually buy in Japan which are superb quality and low priced. Sure socks are just socks but if you get crappy ones they aren't comfortable and the heel eventually works its way up your calf. I found a decent priced pair from a quality brand store so bought a pair to try.
Probably most people wouldn't even notice their new socks but as I wore them through the day I frequently brought my attention to them and appreciated the material as it was snug and fit well, wasn't thick but offered cushioning, obviously breathed as they kept my feet warm but didn't sweat - I was very happy through the day enjoying my new socks, and still continue to do so.
Dumb sock experience analogy aside, as my focus is on the TA-ZH1ES's qualities, hearing this expanded level of detail across the different frequencies and the expanded staging I am getting well over 10% improvement over my 1A and maximum value for every cent I paid.


----------



## Umwelt

Hey fellow TAZers, if anyone happens to be looking for some 4.4mm extension cables, PM me. I have some nice Delock 2m and 3m F-to-M
 pentaconn cables I won't be using anymore after switching to an SE setup.


----------



## Hinomotocho

I've always used my WM1A/BCR-NWH10 as a source. Does anyone amp the 3.5mm output with the region changes and firmwares offering a different flavour?


----------



## VladYR

Having parted with the TA earlier this spring while trading it in for a Chord Dave and taking it on a weeklong trip, I came to realize how impractical this sort of thing can be. The other day I ended up picking up a Sony PHA-3 dac/amp at a 45% discount. It’s going to take a while to get it past the 200-300 hour burn in mark but so far it sounds quite nice. The only thing that it’s missing is a 4.4 headphone port. I’m planning to use it mainly with the Z7 headphones but it would have been nice to be able to plug in my Meze Empyrean (even with an adapter). Has anyone here have any experience with it?


----------



## Imusicman

VladYR said:


> Having parted with the TA earlier this spring while trading it in for a Chord Dave and taking it on a weeklong trip, I came to realize how impractical this sort of thing can be. The other day I ended up picking up a Sony PHA-3 dac/amp at a 45% discount. It’s going to take a while to get it past the 200-300 hour burn in mark but so far it sounds quite nice. The only thing that it’s missing is a 4.4 headphone port. I’m planning to use it mainly with the Z7 headphones but it would have been nice to be able to plug in my Meze Empyrean (even with an adapter). Has anyone here have any experience with it?


I went the other way. I sold the Dave and purchased the TA


----------



## VladYR

Imusicman said:


> I went the other way. I sold the Dave and purchased the TA


Did you sell the Dave to finance something important outside of this hobby? It’s kind of hard to be satisfied with something that’s of lower quality once you get used to Dave.


----------



## Imusicman

VladYR said:


> Did you sell the Dave to finance something important outside of this hobby? It’s kind of hard to be satisfied with something that’s of lower quality once you get used to Dave.


No. To be honest I enjoyed the Dave very much but in the end I ultimately thought it was a bit overkill for me just to use solely with headphones and not be part of a bigger system.


----------



## VladYR

Imusicman said:


> No. To be honest I enjoyed the Dave very much but in the end I ultimately thought it was a bit overkill for me just to use solely with headphones and not be part of a bigger system.


I see. For now mine is primarily for headphone use but in the near future I plan to get some Chord amplifiers to use with speakers. Initially I was thinking of adding an amp to my Linn Selekt streamer but I’ll use it as a source instead since I’d be missing out on the advantages of the M Scaler.


----------



## KerrangZ

Hi guys, I'm using my TA as a DAC into my Drop AAA 789 via pre out (fixed) and found the sound is quite distorted. Reason for trying this is I have ordered a Burson Soloist 3XP and was hoping to use the TA as a DAC for it. Any ideas why this is happening?


----------



## Lookout57

Why do you need a different amplifier? What does the AAA provide that the TA can't?

Your problem is most likely due to the pre out voltage being too high for the AAA. I use my TA to drive Audioengine A5 Powered Speakers, but I'm using variable output.


----------



## KerrangZ

Lookout57 said:


> Why do you need a different amplifier? What does the AAA provide that the TA can't?
> 
> Your problem is most likely due to the pre out voltage being too high for the AAA. I use my TA to drive Audioengine A5 Powered Speakers, but I'm using variable output.


I'm trying this not specifically for the AAA but rather the Burson as I am after something different from an amp perspective. Interestingly the pre out (fixed) is rated at 2Vrms and I read somewhere that the AAA can take up to 7Vrms SE in. Variable out doesn't have any distortion but I also noticed that it only distorts at higher amplitudes so perhaps its clipping on the AAA?


----------



## yiuyiu

Hi TA owner, just recently get the TA to pair with the Z1R. I want to see any of you have use the TA as a DAC for PC audio through the back USB port. It seems there is a very slight lip sync / audio video sync issue for my setup. Any one has similar experience?

I understand it is not intended for movies, but other than just using portable music player through usb port for music. I connect my laptop for some youtube concert and music video listening as well. It seems there is a very slight audio delay there. Any idea?


----------



## marvin3003

yiuyiu said:


> Hi TA owner, just recently get the TA to pair with the Z1R. I want to see any of you have use the TA as a DAC for PC audio through the back USB port. It seems there is a very slight lip sync / audio video sync issue for my setup. Any one has similar experience?
> 
> I understand it is not intended for movies, but other than just using portable music player through usb port for music. I connect my laptop for some youtube concert and music video listening as well. It seems there is a very slight audio delay there. Any idea?


Yes , I have the same issue here. It is something like a few tenths of a second.


----------



## askeladden

See if the problem remains if you use optical. The issue is discussed a few pages back.


----------



## yiuyiu

marvin3003 said:


> Yes , I have the same issue here. It is something like a few tenths of a second.


exactly.. not a big issue since mostly use this for pure music listening, just kind of annoying if using it for video


askeladden said:


> See if the problem remains if you use optical. The issue is discussed a few pages back.


I see. However most PC does not come with the optical output. Any solutions provided back then? I may try hook up to a blu-ray player and see


----------



## yiuyiu

reading back a few page that the lag / delay seems only affecting on high frequency monitor (240hz) for gaming (maybe movies)? My Monitor has a 165hz frequency as well. Maybe I twill try on the one with 60 hz and see.


----------



## KerrangZ

yiuyiu said:


> reading back a few page that the lag / delay seems only affecting on high frequency monitor (240hz) for gaming (maybe movies)? My Monitor has a 165hz frequency as well. Maybe I twill try on the one with 60 hz and see.


I have a 144hz monitor and am not experiencing any lag/delay.. perhaps try dropping the refresh rate in windows if refresh rate appears to be the issue?


----------



## marvin3003

yiuyiu said:


> reading back a few page that the lag / delay seems only affecting on high frequency monitor (240hz) for gaming (maybe movies)? My Monitor has a 165hz frequency as well. Maybe I twill try on the one with 60 hz and see.


Laptop with 60hz and have that issue.


----------



## askeladden (Oct 10, 2021)

I think the conclusion was that it had to do with upsampling features that can't be disabled and that changing the sample rate to match whatever is being played could solve the issue? might be talking out of my rear end here.


----------



## nc8000

I don’t have any issue going optical from my tv


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 10, 2021)

Zero lag from a TV? I’m using optical? Using all the bells and whistles?


----------



## VladYR

During my time owning that amp I never had this problem regardless of connection method. Some video on the other hand can have av sync issues which speaks to its quality rather than the amp being faulty. Do an AV sync test on YouTube just to be sure.


----------



## askeladden

Maybe an issue with firmware updates or specific production batches?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Remember too my test is simply optical from a smart TV, not trying to watch video from a PC. There is zero lag when watching a smart TV. PC may be a different case? PC can a lot of the time be USB in and syncing from PC video, don’t know about that?

Using firmware update 1.03.


----------



## KerrangZ

Has anyone compared the DAC section of the TA to an R2R DAC?


----------



## Imusicman

KerrangZ said:


> Has anyone compared the DAC section of the TA to an R2R DAC?


I have the TAS and the Cayin N6ii R01.

For me with my gear they are more similar than different in timbre. I’m not sure if it’s the extra power out of the TAS balanced but all my gear, which is all easy to drive btw  sounds just that little bit fuller and slightly more open sounding than with the R01. Tbf both sound great though. I know it’s not quite a fair comparison but it’s the only R2R I have.


----------



## Redcarmoose

What is your TA firmware?


----------



## Imusicman

Redcarmoose said:


> What is your TA firmware?


It’s quite old tbh because I use a iMac via USB and the fact that SONY stopped supporting later versions of IMac with updates several years ago. Quite annoying having to run old version of OS so my TAS still works 😡


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 14, 2021)

Yes, sorry.......I have heard that. You are maybe on 1.0.1 or something? 1.0.3 is the latest and it maybe offers a slight midrange/treble increase? I use it with a MacBook Air.

I know they have many of the firmwares available, but sadly not every past one so you could roll-back if needed.


----------



## Tsiklon

Imusicman said:


> It’s quite old tbh because I use a iMac via USB and the fact that SONY stopped supporting later versions of IMac with updates several years ago. Quite annoying having to run old version of OS so my TAS still works 😡


The TA-ZH1ES appears as a USB sound device, it works on pretty much any OS (I’m using it on Mac OS 11, Windows 11 and Ubuntu without any issue), there should be nothing related to it keeping you on an old version of your OS. 

There hasn’t been a firmware update released for the TA-ZH1ES since 2017


----------



## Imusicman

Tsiklon said:


> The TA-ZH1ES appears as a USB sound device, it works on pretty much any OS (I’m using it on Mac OS 11, Windows 11 and Ubuntu without any issue), there should be nothing related to it keeping you on an old version of your OS.
> 
> There hasn’t been a firmware update released for the TA-ZH1ES since 2017


It’s great that it’s working for you. My iMac auto updated to Catalina probably a couple of years or so ago and my TAS stopped working immediately basically leaving me with a black brick. It took me two days to completely resolve the issue including rebuilding all my playlists on iTunes etc and reversing my IMac OS to the previous operating system with the help of Apple. That’s an experience I never want to have go through ever again just for the sake of an update. This was a common issue discussed at length many pages back in the forum. I had lots of PM’s offering support at the time to help me resolve my issue.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 14, 2021)

There is 1.00, 1.01,1.02 and 1.03. I’ve heard of some people having issues with 1.03 with a Mac? I’m not sure when 1.03 came out. But difference is super small if any. It may even be suggestive, but I think it’s there. Sony has never said any firmware changed tone even on the Walkmans.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 14, 2021)

This is 1.03.
https://www.sony-asia.com/electroni...dphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads/Y0015295


----------



## KerrangZ

Imusicman said:


> I have the TAS and the Cayin N6ii R01.
> 
> For me with my gear they are more similar than different in timbre. I’m not sure if it’s the extra power out of the TAS balanced but all my gear, which is all easy to drive btw  sounds just that little bit fuller and slightly more open sounding than with the R01. Tbf both sound great though. I know it’s not quite a fair comparison but it’s the only R2R I have.


Thanks. Will be interesting to compare warmer sounding R2R DACs like the Ares ii or Bifrost 2 against the TA.


----------



## Lookout57

Imusicman said:


> It’s great that it’s working for you. My iMac auto updated to Catalina probably a couple of years or so ago and my TAS stopped working immediately basically leaving me with a black brick. It took me two days to completely resolve the issue including rebuilding all my playlists on iTunes etc and reversing my IMac OS to the previous operating system with the help of Apple. That’s an experience I never want to have go through ever again just for the sake of an update. This was a common issue discussed at length many pages back in the forum. I had lots of PM’s offering support at the time to help me resolve my issue.


I just dowloaded and ran the updater from https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/headphones-headphone-amplifiers/ta-zh1es/downloads/W0011088 on my MBP running Catalina. The updater recognized my TA showing I had 1.03 installed and offered me to update it.


----------



## KerrangZ

Hi guys,

I recently bought a micro USB to usb-c cable for my ZX507b to plug into my TA-ZH1ES and on screen it will prompt "Allow TIDAL to access TA-ZH1ES?", I select OK and nothing happens. I do the same with the music player and when I play a song, it says "Cannot play". Any idea what's going on?


----------



## MrWalkman

KerrangZ said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I recently bought a micro USB to usb-c cable for my ZX507b to plug into my TA-ZH1ES and on screen it will prompt "Allow TIDAL to access TA-ZH1ES?", I select OK and nothing happens. I do the same with the music player and when I play a song, it says "Cannot play". Any idea what's going on?



I suggest giving a try to USB Audio Player Pro as well - you can connect to Tidal in this app too.

You can get a trial version here: https://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/uapp-trial


----------



## WiseRooster

KerrangZ said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I recently bought a micro USB to usb-c cable for my ZX507b to plug into my TA-ZH1ES and on screen it will prompt "Allow TIDAL to access TA-ZH1ES?", I select OK and nothing happens. I do the same with the music player and when I play a song, it says "Cannot play". Any idea what's going on?





MrWalkman said:


> I suggest giving a try to USB Audio Player Pro as well - you can connect to Tidal in this app too.
> 
> You can get a trial version here: https://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/uapp-tria


Had the same problema with another player, it seems weird and not really logical but try to select no when Tidal asks for access 😬
It worked for me...


----------



## MrWalkman

WiseRooster said:


> Had the same problema with another player, it seems weird and not really logical but try to select no when Tidal asks for access 😬
> It worked for me...



Ah, doing that would let Android handle the sound output instead of Tidal doing that directly. It's at least something different and it might work.


----------



## KerrangZ

MrWalkman said:


> I suggest giving a try to USB Audio Player Pro as well - you can connect to Tidal in this app too.
> 
> You can get a trial version here: https://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/uapp-trial


Thanks. I bought it some time ago but forgot, so thanks for reminding me.


WiseRooster said:


> Had the same problema with another player, it seems weird and not really logical but try to select no when Tidal asks for access 😬
> It worked for me...


I tried the opposite and it worked after I installed UAPP. Weird..


----------



## endless402

Any preference between coaxial and usb?


----------



## nc8000

endless402 said:


> Any preference between coaxial and usb?


I use usb to my streamer and optical to my tv


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 19, 2021)

Coaxial and optical have a bit-rate limit much lower than USB. It just depends on what files you play. If your only 16/44.1 then in a way optical can be better as you bypass all the noise with both coaxial and USB. There is nothing that transfers the noise. But you just have to experiment. Coaxial sounded really bad going CD from a transport, where the same exact file sounded alive coming from a Walkman in the Cradle via AQCarbon USB to the TA? Optical also somehow seemed 2nd too to the Cradle. I really didn’t test it that much. But if I just needed 16/44.1 and wanted to bypass the whole Walkman thing, I would use optical.


endless402 said:


> Any preference between coaxial and usb?



Funny just looked and you have/had much of the same equipment as I!

K701
Cambridge Audio DACMagic/Plus
Rega Planet CD player
Woo Audio 3


----------



## Lookout57

Redcarmoose said:


> Coaxial and optical have a bit-rate limit much lower than USB. It just depends on what files you play. If your only 16/44.1 then in a way optical can be better as you bypass all the noise with both coaxial and USB. There is nothing that transfers the noise. But you just have to experiment. Coaxial sounded really bad going CD from a transport, where the same exact file sounded alive coming from a Walkman in the Cradle via AQCarbon USB to the TA? Optical also somehow seemed 2nd too to the Cradle. I really didn’t test it that much. But if I just needed 16/44.1 and wanted to bypass the whole Walkman thing, I would use optical.
> 
> 
> Funny just looked and you have/had much of the same equipment as I!
> ...


In order of supported sample rates highest to lowest:

USB-B
Walkman USB
Coax
Optical

FYI, I have the Rega Jupiter 2000 CD player.


----------



## askeladden

Can't find the tazzy in stock in stores or on sony.com anymore.. did they pull the plug on it?


----------



## sebbaan (Nov 21, 2021)

Can somebody please confirm if below applies or does not apply to your tazh1es as well:

1. Like 1mm play in the volume knob in both directions. Can be felt just when you begin to turn in the opposite direction.

2. Something rattling inside when turning the tazh1es upside down.

Got mine new a month ago, and would like to send it back while still under warranty should something be wrong with it.

I have captured a video of what I mean by play.
Thanks for helping me check 😉


----------



## nc8000 (Dec 25, 2021)

sebbaan said:


> Can somebody please confirm if below applies or does not apply to your tazh1es as well:
> 
> 1. Like 1mm play in the volume knob in both directions. Can be felt just when you begin to turn in the opposite direction.
> 
> ...


No play. I have no idea if anything is ratteling inside, it has sat in the same place since I got it about 5 years ago


----------



## gerelmx1986

askeladden said:


> Can't find the tazzy in stock in stores or on sony.com anymore.. did they pull the plug on it?


I’ve heard rumors the signture series line is facing an uncertain future. Got also told that the WM1 walkmans as well as the DMP-Z1 will be soon diacontinued. If this is true or not, i don’t really know


----------



## davidmthekidd

gerelmx1986 said:


> I’ve heard rumors the signture series line is facing an uncertain future. Got also told that the WM1 walkmans as well as the DMP-Z1 will be soon diacontinued. If this is true or not, i don’t really know


Weird, Seems like a refresh of some kind is imminent, sony is a leader in Digital Audio, Doubt they will abandon this market; Waiting for CES.


----------



## hdemico

Anybody used some small and simple Sony walkman like NW-A45 with the tazzy? Better Digital stream compared to the computer stream?


----------



## Redcarmoose

hdemico said:


> Anybody used some small and simple Sony walkman like NW-A45 with the tazzy? Better Digital stream compared to the computer stream?








Being that that model shares the same 20 pin connection as the 1Z, 1A, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work, though I personally haven’t tried it. The thing to test is have someone try a computer then the player blindly and have you listen.

In my simple tests it does improve both pace and blackness of background using the Sony players instead of a PC or Apple computer.


----------



## Gamerlingual

NA-55 works like a charm


----------



## hdemico

How much important can be the Digital stream you provide to the input? 
Today i remembered how was good the sound using the analog input, that automatically transform the analog signal to dsd...and of course reverse to analog..
so any suboptimal sound can really depend by low quality Digital audio input???


----------



## Vamp898 (Jan 11, 2022)

Not sure if thas have been posted yet, but there is this french article (Auto Translate works pretty well) about the TA-ZH1ES that shows a lot of in-depth insight

https://www.homecinema-fr.com/test-sony-signature-lorsque-sony-fete-son-70eme-anniversaire/3/

It shows the two power supplies, the separate boards, the downside of the board (containing the Analog Amp), the AKM Chips that are used for A/D Conversion of the Analog input and upscaling and so on.


----------



## Woodlands

Vamp898 said:


> Not sure if thas have been posted yet, but there is this french article (Auto Translate works pretty well) about the TA-ZH1ES that shows a lot of in-depth insight
> 
> https://www.homecinema-fr.com/test-sony-signature-lorsque-sony-fete-son-70eme-anniversaire/3/
> 
> It shows the two power supplies, the separate boards, the downside of the board (containing the Analog Amp), the AKM Chips that are used for A/D Conversion of the Analog input and upscaling and so on.


Yes, a very thorough review. I read it late last year. I find it interesting that they speak highly of the pre-out (into a stellar test system) even though it doesn’t seem to get much respect on this thread. I use the pre-out into a much more modest system and I am very happy with the fidelity.


----------



## Vamp898

To be honest, i never tried the pre-out, but i don't have any device that i could use it with. All i do with my TA-ZH1ES is plug headphones into it and listen to music^^ but i am 100% satisfied with it.


----------



## Woodlands

Vamp898 said:


> To be honest, i never tried the pre-out, but i don't have any device that i could use it with. All i do with my TA-ZH1ES is plug headphones into it and listen to music^^ but i am 100% satisfied with it.


Ah, I see. I didn’t have any plans to but I starting using the unit as a preamp to take advantage of the DSD upscaling on CDs, etc.  I just love the flexibility of this thing.


----------



## Vamp898

I have no strong feelings about DSD Remastering. I tried it on and off like 1000 times and still i can't decide if its better or not. Sometimes i have the feeling that with DSD Remastering Enabled, it sounds more like an Analog Amp. Sometimes i like that, sometimes not.

I have it off because... i don't know... i just don't care enough to turn it on^^ but i heard lots of times that for some people, its the definitive feature for them.

Better having than needing, right?


----------



## Woodlands

Vamp898 said:


> I have no strong feelings about DSD Remastering. I tried it on and off like 1000 times and still i can't decide if its better or not. Sometimes i have the feeling that with DSD Remastering Enabled, it sounds more like an Analog Amp. Sometimes i like that, sometimes not.
> 
> I have it off because... i don't know... i just don't care enough to turn it on^^ but i heard lots of times that for some people, its the definitive feature for them.
> 
> Better having than needing, right?


Agreed. It’s more for fun than anything. At my age (>50) very little chance I’m hearing any difference.


----------



## nc8000

Vamp898 said:


> To be honest, i never tried the pre-out, but i don't have any device that i could use it with. All i do with my TA-ZH1ES is plug headphones into it and listen to music^^ but i am 100% satisfied with it.


The same for me. The TA is my bed side rig so nothing the line out could feed


----------



## hoofman

Vamp898 said:


> Not sure if thas have been posted yet, but there is this french article (Auto Translate works pretty well) about the TA-ZH1ES that shows a lot of in-depth insight
> 
> https://www.homecinema-fr.com/test-sony-signature-lorsque-sony-fete-son-70eme-anniversaire/3/
> 
> It shows the two power supplies, the separate boards, the downside of the board (containing the Analog Amp), the AKM Chips that are used for A/D Conversion of the Analog input and upscaling and so on.


Thanks for sharing. And for someone like me who can't read French here is the English version using Google Translate. It's very understandable.

https://www-homecinema--fr-com.tran...aire/3/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ja


----------



## Vamp898

By the way, the SA-Z1 also uses the D.A. Hybrid Amp from the TA-ZH1ES but in an improved version.

Instead of MOSFET they are using GaN-FET but it's pretty much the same design. The GaN-FET allows them to output more power than the TA-ZH1ES.

https://www.sony.jp/feature/products/200528/?s_pid=jp_audio_product_202005_feature_1

So Sony is still believing in this technology to be the best and is still developing it. Maybe there will be an successor to the TA-ZH1ES with higher output some day


----------



## OCXX

Interesting, how 'the new WM1A\Z series' will connect to TA-ZH1ES AMP?...

new adaper?


----------



## Redcarmoose

Right? Good point!


OCXX said:


> Interesting, how 'the new WM1A\Z series' will connect to TA-ZH1ES AMP?...
> 
> new adaper?


----------



## SubL0ck

Hey guys, does anybody know if GS-X Mini will be a noticable upgrade over the TA? I'm thinking about using the TA as a DAC and hooking up the Mini to it's Line Outs.
P.S. I know that TA is still going to apply some of its own processing to the sound.


----------



## SubL0ck

yiuyiu said:


> Hi TA owner, just recently get the TA to pair with the Z1R. I want to see any of you have use the TA as a DAC for PC audio through the back USB port. It seems there is a very slight lip sync / audio video sync issue for my setup. Any one has similar experience?
> 
> I understand it is not intended for movies, but other than just using portable music player through usb port for music. I connect my laptop for some youtube concert and music video listening as well. It seems there is a very slight audio delay there. Any idea?


The amp has a lag. Somebody notices this, somebody doesn't. But the issue is there and you can't do anything with it. Reason - not too fast FPGA chip.


----------



## nc8000

SubL0ck said:


> The amp has a lag. Somebody notices this, somebody doesn't. But the issue is there and you can't do anything with it. Reason - not too fast FPGA chip.


The lag seems to be with usb connection to pc and games with very high frame rate. I have absolutely no lag on optical from my tv


----------



## hoofman

hoofman said:


> For people with the TA-ZH1ES and wonder how to connect the new NW-WM1AM2 and NW-WM1ZM2 it's fairly simple, a USB-C to micro cable will do the trick, I tested just now it worked perfectly


I posted this in the New walkman thread but I'll quote it here just in case it's helpful to other TA owners.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-sony-nw-wm1z-m2-wm1a-m2.962054/post-16813512


----------



## kefs

I have been using this with my LG V60. Works perfect.
#gothicaudio


----------



## oniel459

kefs said:


> I have been using this with my LG V60. Works perfect.
> #gothicaudio


Does the v60 resample everything to 48k like all other androids? Or did they work around that


----------



## kefs

oniel459 said:


> Does the v60 resample everything to 48k like all other androids? Or did they work around that


I use UAPP app so quad dacs fully utilised


----------



## endless402

Any power cable recommendations? Looking for something relatively flexible and diy is ok too since I have a few furutech and wattgate plugs


----------



## Vamp898

oniel459 said:


> Does the v60 resample everything to 48k like all other androids? Or did they work around that


My Xperia 1 II (With Sony Music Center App) does have bit perfect output. So 96KHz is 96KHz and 192KHz is 192KHz, no resample. And i think its the app.

I'd assume using that app should work the same way on every other Android too.


----------



## Lookout57

endless402 said:


> Any power cable recommendations? Looking for something relatively flexible and diy is ok too since I have a few furutech and wattgate plugs


I'm using an AudioQuest NRG-X3


----------



## nc8000

Lookout57 said:


> I'm using an AudioQuest NRG-X3


I’m using NRG-Y2


----------



## kefs

Russ Andrews reference powercord


----------



## davidmthekidd

Everyone Happy with the TA-ZH1ES and how it sounds with the Z1R? is that the dream combo?


----------



## nc8000

davidmthekidd said:


> Everyone Happy with the TA-ZH1ES and how it sounds with the Z1R? is that the dream combo?


Certainly is for me for now about 5 1/2 years


----------



## davidmthekidd

nc8000 said:


> Certainly is for me for now about 5 1/2 years


I have expressed multiple times in Headfi that the MDR-Z1R full size is my favorite headphone, I've been considering the AK SP2000T quite a lot; I just want to maximize my Z1R to it fullest potential, still not sure about the new WM1Zm2. Anyone's response will help, thanks.


----------



## nc8000

davidmthekidd said:


> I have expressed multiple times in Headfi that the MDR-Z1R full size is my favorite headphone, I've been considering the AK SP2000T quite a lot; I just want to maximize my Z1R to it fullest potential, still not sure about the new WM1Zm2. Anyone's response will help, thanks.


While the MDR sound good with my modded 1Z they sound great with the TA which to me is fine as they are too big for mobile use so the live exclusively in my stationary rig


----------



## Lookout57

davidmthekidd said:


> Everyone Happy with the TA-ZH1ES and how it sounds with the Z1R? is that the dream combo?


Yes, specially when using a pure silver balanced cable.


----------



## Halimj7

davidmthekidd said:


> I have expressed multiple times in Headfi that the MDR-Z1R full size is my favorite headphone, I've been considering the AK SP2000T quite a lot; I just want to maximize my Z1R to it fullest potential, still not sure about the new WM1Zm2. Anyone's response will help, thanks.


To my ears the 1Z and TA are almost identical in sound signature. The TA has a slightly wider sound stage which makes 1Z seem a tad bit warmer with some tasteful bleed into the lower mids from the lows. For it really comes down to utility and whether you value a desktop with more outputs or portability.


----------



## Hinomotocho

My WM1Z was the most I've spent on an audio item. I've had it about 2 months and have denied myself any time with my TA so I can firstly familiarise myself with it, add some listening hours to help justify it, and partly because I know the TA for me is still king. 
I upgrade from my 1A because I get most listening time from a portable set up but the one time I am sitting down is to watch TV/movies so have invested in a 4.4mm extension cable so I can for now still get some value out of my TA. 



Aliexpress: Lunashops


----------



## Vamp898 (Feb 22, 2022)

Halimj7 said:


> To my ears the 1Z and TA are almost identical in sound signature. The TA has a slightly wider sound stage which makes 1Z seem a tad bit warmer with some tasteful bleed into the lower mids from the lows. For it really comes down to utility and whether you value a desktop with more outputs or portability.


I have songs that show only small differences but i also have several songs that, when these small differences are getting added up, result in an completely different experience.

Albums where i found the biggest differences yet have been Nackt II from Subway to Sally where the Album turns into a completely different Experience with the TA-ZH1ES and the Album ユメの喫茶店 where the double bass sounds very different and a lot of small background sounds like triangles get smudged with the WM1Z but sound crystal clear and "like there" with the TA-ZH1ES  ()

Basically you're not really far off, it is mostly the soundstage, but soundstage is a mix of several factors and not one single thing (soundstage actually doesn't really exist). So to increase the soundstage, you need and improvement in a lot of factors like treble and bass extension that adds up to a bigger soundstage in the end.

The FTCAP in the WM1Z can't deliver what the giant capacitors in the TA-ZH1ES can do and they have been designed in a way, that they sound like they are bigger than they actually are. You could say the WM1Z does have the worse sausage and tries to cover that with ketchup and mustard.

Its a bit like a Vegan sausage. Vegans say that if you add the same spices you use for an sausage to Tofu, they will taste the same. And if you're not used to them, to a lot of people who try them (if they are made good) actually "Taste the same". Because the first and most prominent thing you taste are the spices. But if you eat both over weeks, the differences grow bigger and bigger because you're less distracted by the spices.

Eating the Vegan Whopper for the first time and you're amazed, that its almost identical. But eat it 5 times and you'll instantly notice it, if someone gives you the real meat version.

Because they share the same Sound Signature, they do sound very similar in the beginning, but, depending on Song and Headphone/Earphone, there is actually a huge gap between the WM1Z and the TA-ZH1ES and the longer i use both, the bigger this gap gets. The gap is now to the point that when i let people listen to the MDR-Z1R and the WM1Z, i tell them "But this is only the Walkman, it is not the full experience, the TA-ZH1ES actually sounds much better" because i assume they will also hear the gap.

But surprise, to those people, they sound pretty much identical. Because all they taste is ketchup und mustard.


----------



## hleonz (Feb 26, 2022)

Is your TA-ZH1ES making tick/click sound when switching output (XLR4 -> Unbalanced-1, Unbalanced-2 -> Balanced-1, Balanced-1 -> Balanced-2, Preout -> XLR4) ?


----------



## nc8000

hleonz said:


> Is your TA-ZH1ES making tick/click sound when switching output (XLR4 -> Unbalanced-1, Unbalanced-2 -> Balanced-1, Balanced-1 -> Balanced-2, Preout -> XLR4) ?


Yes, it’s mechanical relays


----------



## kefs

hleonz said:


> Is your TA-ZH1ES making tick/click sound when switching output (XLR4 -> Unbalanced-1, Unbalanced-2 -> Balanced-1, Balanced-1 -> Balanced-2, Preout -> XLR4) ?


Yes, they are supposed to do this, its switching


----------



## hleonz

Thanks nc8000 and kefs.

Is the 3.5mm unbalanced jack a bit stucky (it seems to hit something on the way in/out) when plugging in / out? It is not smooth like the 4.4mm balanced or 6.3mm unbalanced jack.

I can't try the other twin 3.5mm balanced jack since I don't have the cable.


----------



## kefs

hleonz said:


> Thanks nc8000 and kefs.
> 
> Is the 3.5mm unbalanced jack a bit stucky (it seems to hit something on the way in/out) when plugging in / out? It is not smooth like the 4.4mm balanced or 6.3mm unbalanced jack.
> 
> I can't try the other twin 3.5mm balanced jack since I don't have the cable.


Try it in those switched off maybe just to check the fit?
I find the sockets are a good snug fit.


----------



## hleonz

How do you connect your macbook (only has USB-C) with the TA? I found not many good alternatives for USB-B to C cable around (and to be below $200).

The other way is to use USB-B to A cable like oyaide or supra and use Apple USB-C to A dongle. Any thoughts?


----------



## kelly200269

I have one For Sale. UK ONLY:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154874538317?mkevt=1&mkcid=16&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0


----------



## nc8000

kelly200269 said:


> I have one For Sale. UK ONLY:
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154874538317?mkevt=1&mkcid=16&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0


£2.500 seems very expensive, about £1.000 more than I paid new for mine in 2017


----------



## kelly200269 (Mar 1, 2022)

nc8000 said:


> £2.500 seems very expensive, about £1.000 more than I paid new for mine in 2017


It was heavily discounted when it was produced, Shame, as it’s a reference-class item.


----------



## nc8000

kelly200269 said:


> It was heavily discounted when it was produced, Shame, as it’s a reference-class item.


In Denmark the list price is DKK 15.000 which equates to £1.700. In US the list price is about $2.100 which equates to £1.600 and both places it is in stock and available however it does not seem to be available in UK so I suppose you might find somebody willing to pay a huge premium, even for a used unit, but I would doubt it. There are many used ones available on eBay for a lot less, but again not in UK. Good luck with the sale


----------



## kefs

nc8000 said:


> £2.500 seems very expensive, about £1.000 more than I paid new for mine in 2017


Hmmmm, yep i paid £1100 from Amazon Marketplace !


----------



## kelly200269 (Mar 1, 2022)

If it doesn’t sell, I’m gonna keep it. It’s beautiful. A masterpiece. Better than my Chord TT2 in many ways.


----------



## nc8000

kelly200269 said:


> If it doesn’t sell, I’m gonna keep it. It’s beautiful. A masterpiece. Better than my Chord TT2 in many ways.


Yes I’m certainly not getting rid of mine


----------



## Halimj7

Has anyone ever tried to drive the Abyss 1266 on the TA-Z1hes? Is it adequate?


----------



## nc8000

Halimj7 said:


> Has anyone ever tried to drive the Abyss 1266 on the TA-Z1hes? Is it adequate?


I tried to drive the HE-6 when I first got the TA and that was not adequate


----------



## nabiscosnack

Would the rca pre outs on the back be able to feed a woo audio headphone amp?


----------



## nc8000

nabiscosnack said:


> Would the rca pre outs on the back be able to feed a woo audio headphone amp?


Should do


----------



## nabiscosnack

nc8000 said:


> Should do


Thank you, was just concerned since the specs said something about a digital pre out. Haha


----------



## Halimj7 (Mar 12, 2022)

What AMP/DAC combo would you guys recommend as a good complement to my collection as a proud TA-Zh1es owner by providing me a different sound and experience? I own Utopia, L5000, R10P, TIA Fourte, and Noble Kahn. Thanks.


----------



## n00b

Is the sound quality affected by the type of Walkman I connect to the Tazzie? Since it acts as both the DAC and amp, it shouldn't matter whether I'm using an NW-A55, WM1A, WM1Z etc right?


----------



## Lookout57

n00b said:


> Is the sound quality affected by the type of Walkman I connect to the Tazzie? Since it acts as both the DAC and amp, it shouldn't matter whether I'm using an NW-A55, WM1A, WM1Z etc right?


Correct.


----------



## Halimj7

n00b said:


> Is the sound quality affected by the type of Walkman I connect to the Tazzie? Since it acts as both the DAC and amp, it shouldn't matter whether I'm using an NW-A55, WM1A, WM1Z etc right?


For the Walkman connection port I didn’t notice any difference. I think the Walkman port is only to use as a transport.


----------



## Redcarmoose

n00b said:


> Is the sound quality affected by the type of Walkman I connect to the Tazzie? Since it acts as both the DAC and amp, it shouldn't matter whether I'm using an NW-A55, WM1A, WM1Z etc right?


Using the rear USB hook-up will offer only one extra bit rate value which the side hook up doesn’t offer. But basically they are the same. The players are simply file servers. Though you can choose the Sony adapter and go to the rear of the TA, use the Cradle and go to the rear, or use included cable and use the side. Really it all sounds pretty much the same.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 14, 2022)

My gosh, I have the Sony WM1Z in the Cradle playing 44.1 kHz-24 bit, going AudioQuest Carbon USB to the back of the TA-ZH1ES DAC/Amp. The power cord: Electra Glide Audio Reference Glide-Reference Standard "Fatboy" Power Cord. The front has the Sony MDR-Z1R hooked up to the (MUC-B20SB1) Kimber cable. My reference system........nothing better! So far the best in my experience? 

Interesting they always talk about headphone placement being critical? How they do slightly change when moved around my head, still there is no big deal if moved forward or back. Maybe it’s more of an issue with other headphones?

*This is all so natural and organic, I wouldn’t change a thing!*

While bass definition is better with the Sony IER-Z1R, the midrange is amazing! Also the treble imaging is something else. I’m listening to music with a lot of whispers and vocal effects to that style. The detail is the best!

Really it’s apples and oranges to compare an IEM to full-size.


----------



## Halimj7

Halimj7 said:


> What AMP/DAC combo would you guys recommend as a good complement to my collection as a proud TA-Zh1es owner by providing me a different sound and experience? I own Utopia, L5000, R10P, TIA Fourte, and Noble Kahn. Thanks.


Anyone?


----------



## kefs

Halimj7 said:


> Anyone?


Sorry, i only use my TAZ


----------



## Vamp898

Halimj7 said:


> Anyone?


Imho, safe the money and/or invest it into Headphone/Earphone.

Right now im thinking about investing into Final. Starting with the E5000 and then going to the A8000 and D8000.

Also the FitEar TG335 is on my list. The least thing im thinking about, after owning the TA-ZH1ES, is getting another Amp.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Vamp898 said:


> Imho, safe the money and/or invest it into Headphone/Earphone.
> 
> Right now im thinking about investing into Final. Starting with the E5000 and then going to the A8000 and D8000.
> 
> Also the FitEar TG335 is on my list. The least thing im thinking about, after owning the TA-ZH1ES, is getting another Amp.


Yes, without want of a different DAC/Amp.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Someone is selling a used Tazh1es for around $1200 on ebay; I would like to extract the best performance out of my MDR-Z1R, my favorite headphone, is there anything that I should look out for when buying a used taz1ies? I'm still considering the WM1ZM2 due in a few weeks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115303965884?hash=item1ad8a6e4bc:g:k0sAAOSw-DhiCXtx


----------



## grabrom

I was also considering a used Taz, as it's sometimes possible to get some with a 6 month warranty (not the Sony one), but I think I might buy a new one.
The price difference amounts to about 350 usd, and all the used ones I have seen until now are about 4 years old. 

And if you think of the fact the life span might be around 20 years, that would be a considerable chunk of it gone already.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 5, 2022)

I am rejoining the club  TA-ZH1ES , here I come ! And possibly some excitements to come too

just FYI

DC-Phase linearizer on TA is a physical circuit with DC decoupling capacitor when enabled, or bypass this when turned off.  It isn’t the same as Walkman, software DSP by algorithms

Also, DSEE HX is physically done by analog devices chip, together with the AI algorithm input by FPGA.  It upscales all pcm upto 384Khz


----------



## Halimj7

Whitigir said:


> I am rejoining the club  TA-ZH1ES , here I come ! And possibly some excitements to come too
> 
> just FYI
> 
> ...


Does anyone use DC Phase linearizer?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 31, 2022)

Whitigir said:


> I am rejoining the club  TA-ZH1ES , here I come ! And possibly some excitements to come too
> 
> just FYI
> 
> ...


_*I*_*t was because of you and your influence that I even got the Cradle and AQCarbon.* I always wanted to let you know that I am grateful for the direction. And maybe it's still relevant? I mean it makes the IEMs I test very different from the Walkmans and other Amp/Dacs? I still hold the TA-ZH1ES in high regard, though I don't go around and try out a bunch of stuff? Thank-you, I hope you enjoy it, again.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sony-ta-zh1es.22253/reviews#review-25441


----------



## Redcarmoose

Halimj7 said:


> Does anyone use DC Phase linearizer?


Yes, I leave all three sweeteners on.

_A) DC Phase Linearizer 
B) DSD Remastering Engine 
C) DSEE HX_


----------



## Whitigir (Mar 31, 2022)

Another fact is that Single ended output amplification is SET output as in using Transformers output.  You may find that to be exciting .  Also, if you burn in, you will need to burn in SE separately as the transformers will burn in separately only on SE output.  See the red arrows here


----------



## Halimj7

Redcarmoose said:


> Yes, I leave all three sweeteners on.
> 
> _A) DC Phase Linearizer
> B) DSD Remastering Engine
> C) DSEE HX_


What do you hear when activate the Dc Phase?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Mar 31, 2022)

It activates a reworking of the bass. Definitely subtle, and if you concentrate your focus on my review I explain it, halfway plagiarizing the Sony propaganda. It's a supposed full-frequency change maybe? But it is subtly noticeable primarily in comprehension of low frequency response. Read my review.


Halimj7 said:


> What do you hear when activate the Dc Phase?


_What does DC Phase Linearizer do?_
All amplifiers like the S-Master design can be highly accurate—in some respects they can even be too accurate. Phase linearity is an issue with analog amplifiers and a contributor to analog sound. When you connect a real-world amplifier to a real-world headphone, the interaction causes significant departure from phase linearity at frequencies below 30 or 50 Hz. Sony studies show a typical deviation from linear phase of about +90 degrees. While not making the bass any louder or softer, this shift does have a subtle effect, creating warmer and more accessible bass.







_The low-frequency phase response of the typical analog amplifier departs from linearity at about 30 to 50 Hz. Because many audiophiles are accustomed to seeing frequency plotted against amplitude decibels, this may look like a bass boost. It is not. It's a change in phase, which is much more subtle. Because this phase shift is common across many brands of amplifiers at many price points, the shift has a broad effect on headphone design. Consciously or not, headphone designers take this phase shift into account when they fine-tune the sound of their products._

This raises an interesting dilemma. Should a new digital amplifier incorporate this phase shift or leave the sound in its original state? After extensive listening tests, Sony decided to give users the choice of applying an equivalent phase shift in the digital domain, using a dedicated Digital Signal Processor. This LSI adjusts low-frequency phase with internal accuracy equal to a 65-bit process. We call this circuit the DC Phase Linearizer, because it "restores" low-frequency phase, emulating the signal that the headphone would get from a top-quality analog amplifier.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Whitigir said:


> Another fact is that Single ended output amplification is SET output as in using Transformers output.  You may find that to be exciting .  Also, if you burn in, you will need to burn in SE separately as the transformers will burn in separately only on SE output.  See the red arrows here


I had no idea ? Glad to have already burned-in the 3.5mm and 4.4mm just as consequence of headphone burn-in........at least 400 hours per 3.5mm and an additional 400 hours per 4.4mm.


----------



## WiseRooster

Whitigir said:


> Another fact is that Single ended output amplification is SET output as in using Transformers output. You may find that to be exciting . Also, if you burn in, you will need to burn in SE separately as the transformers will burn in separately only on SE output. See the red arrows here


Good to know  
So now call me a fool but have you ever tried your dx300 / max with USB-b connection. I Do this till day one because I have no home PC.
You can notice the Difference in sound with every dap.
Best combo and Most Durable Battery life Shows the 300max (about 30-40 hours with Amazon HD)
The Bass is crazy and so am I :-SS 

With dx300 you get more soundstage but the sound is more clinical.

Sa700/dx200-220 are no good because of Battery life.
But the aksa700 gives also really nice Intimate sound for female vocals.

I use Nordost Frey2 USB cable


Redcarmoose said:


> I had no idea ? Glad to have already burned-in the 3.5mm and 4.4mm just as consequence of headphone burn-in........at least 400 hours per 3.5mm and an additional 400 hours per 4.4mm.


----------



## Redcarmoose

If your talking about not using a PC with the TA, yes, that is a huge difference, rotation in of a Walkman as a file server. That was the whole benefit for me was going to the Cradle and USB AQCarbon.

But I don’t use any other thing as a source. 


WiseRooster said:


> Good to know
> So now call me a fool but have you ever tried your dx300 / max with USB-b connection. I Do this till day one because I have no home PC.
> You can notice the Difference in sound with every dap.
> Best combo and Most Durable Battery life Shows the 300max (about 30-40 hours with Amazon HD)
> ...


----------



## nc8000

I feed my TA via a very short custom usb cable a friend of mine has done from the Auralic Aries Mini streamer (with upgraded psu) with a 4 TB ssd drive and have used that setup for over 5 years as my home rig into the MDR-Z1R


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 1, 2022)

It appears that the DSEE-HX is done by the FPGA together with those 2X Analog Devices Chips, there are AKM sample rate converter and Analog to digital converter but they serve the Analog Input purposes. Anyways, the TA still going to upscaling to 384Khz because it has a better built with better dedicated hardware than Walkman, and even DMP Z1.


----------



## gsiu33

Woodlands said:


> Ah, I see. I didn’t have any plans to but I starting using the unit as a preamp to take advantage of the DSD upscaling on CDs, etc.  I just love the flexibility of this thing.


I am also using the pre-out connecting to the pre-in of my integrated amp. Beside DSD upscaling + DSEE HX on CDs, also make use of it to decode Hi-res music to play it in the main speaker system. I agreed that most of the time cannot tell the difference with the DSD Remastering, may be a little analog.


----------



## gsiu33

Redcarmoose said:


> Right? Good point!


I think we need usb-c to usb b cable


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 2, 2022)

gsiu33 said:


> I think we need usb-c to usb b cable


That is correct, yes!

Also that the USB B has a better interface than the Walkman/Micro as it takes DSD512x and pcm 768Khz.

Also this TA-ZH1ES is fully capable of DSEEHX into 768Khz, if Sony allows it


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 3, 2022)

I have been looking into the TA-ZH1ES technical diagrams.  There are some very interesting technologies in the TA-ZH1ES.

Lets talk S-Master.  I asked a friend about being HX and non HX.  So, it means that HX is able to playback high-resolution files including DSD native
Here, Sony said that S-Master is a non feedback processing.  This is very true that S-Master will just carry it on directly from post processing of PWM length data toward digital amplifications.  This is a little different than Class D amplifications.  We were under the impressions that S-Master is Class D amplifications, but it actually isn’t.  Class D amplifications would needs to convert an analog signals into square wave of PWM, which means the original have to be analog first, while S-master is completely Digital.  It only needs bits and binary info with “Sony proprietary DSP + algorithms” to generate PWM.

For music there will be 2 kinds (Pre-post) of PWM which is basically a square waves that carries clock timing with it.  So basically, USB audio is exactly this.  What exactly are these timings ? Why mentioning it ? Isn’t binary code a kind of Morse code of 1 and 0 representations ? Ah yeah....you are probably confused.  While there are only 2 values of information as an encoding, which Morse code is also an encoding of 2 values.  Every data is different.  There are time domain data, and there are non time domain data.  Morse code is a representation Of non time domain binary, which means you can receive a string of code at this exactly 5 seconds to represen “A letter” (bit length), and stop until tomorrow, you get another 5 seconds to represent “B letter”.  You can easily summing both events into a result of AB, where as with music, which is a representations of Hz and frequencies and frequencies is amplitude over time...aka time domain information.  So, in order to encode this correctly, not only the 2 values of 1 and 0 need to represent it, but it also needs the correct timing, imagine you are “rapping” yourself in a rhythm with only “1 and 0” given.  Your timing will change the rhythm.....ever heard of hip-hop that only consist of “Oh - - -Oh” but sounds like music ? Try that ”oh” today and wait until tomorrow for another “oh”, is it music ?




Wait... I am confused now, even more, so what is digital music ? And why is it USB ? Lets just say that USB is universal interface “U”.  So, it is used to represent many different digital info and usages.  Why does different transport, playback apps, devices, even cables and interface effecting my music and it outcome ?  Google will just bring up confusion and further mix into your confusion which leads to nowhere.  You can see this illustrations that your Smartphones (digital transports) are essentially using a DSP processing to play back music, which essentially gather binary codes in packs (which buffers work just fine as it is not bandwidth and timing sensitive yet), then after the DSP, your square waves are now becoming bandwidth encoded and timing sensitive.  It depends on the DSP being used and it algorithms, together with it representations of recovered and input informations, each app/program will have a different representations, together with different DSP, which results in a slightly altered Square waves Afterward (Post square waves).  This Post square wave as said, a timing sensitive square waves, which is exactly frequencies, but it is square and not sin wave.  So, here you will get something that is also related to timing domain, the cables materials, let’s say pure silver is 5% more conductive than copper....does that mean electron travel 5% faster ? Ok, so that is why different cables will also play a role here.  Have your ears been fooling you ?

ok, so, this strings of time domain *Pre PWM* data will flow into your DAC, and the DAC will convert it by whatever meanings and output analog right ?  Sony is also converting digital to analog right ? What is the different ? And what was the class D amp have to do with all of this ?

So, basically,  another confusion.  Traditionally, External DAC will use these strings (*Pre PWM*) fed from (host device) and convert by modulations, interpolations, algorithms, DSP again...whatever.  Then it finally comes out as analog signals output of sin wave.  Then This signals will get amplified to be music and driving your speakers.  during the amplifications, class D amp can be used as the class D will modulate the pulse width from the given analog signals....which is considered analog as well but in square form.

Sony is different, it takes in the strings of square waves (*Pre PWM*), which is time domain, and yet to be processed into music.  Then it will also apply other DSP modulations and related digital processing.  However, instead of coming out as analog signals like traditional DAC, *it comes out as (Post PWM) directly from the results of digital processing (this by passes one important step from class D amplification which requires digital to be analog and to then be generated to pulses)*.  So, no, the S-Master is neither digital amplification, nor Class D amplifications.  It is rather a pulse width generators from the given time domain strings of info.  The result of this translate the post digital music to become Analog in square wave form (how exactly was it done ? Well....I don’t know, can’t tell you).  However, it has a lot of noises from sub harmonic to ultra frequency range, where as Class D amplifier didn’t have to deal with those noises.  So this is where low pass and high pass filters filters are needed, otherwise these will be harmful to everything around it.  For this purpose, Sony designed a passive network of capacitor arrays, resistor, and inductors to trim out all of the excessive noises and only represent the portion of human hearing bandwidth toward the outputs.

Enough with this digital and class D.  What about S-Master ? And TA ?

So, the S-master inside the TA-ZH1ES is the only one that is capable of DSD512/pcm 768KHz right at this moment.  That is why the TA-ZH1ES is very different kind of S-Master, and the story doesn’t just stop there.  *We have Digital-Analog hybrid amplifications (see ? This is why I mentioned that TA_ZH1ES is not Class D amp), because it is a HYBRID-AMP consisting of Digital processing, digital amplification, analog amplifications*
_**_

TA-ZH1ES utilizing this S-Master to another next level, that it not only generate PWM for digital amplifications alone, but also analog amplification too!!  It really turned out that Sony could always use this S-Master toward analog amplifications too...not only digital amplifications.  Anyways, they implemented it this way, so that it helps canceling the switching noises from the result of digital amplification of the post processing from S-Master conversions.

This Hybrid technology was implemented successfully by using Analog amplification under carefully engineering it to represent the Negative signals in the exact same manner as the positive signals that were Being amplified by the digital amplifications.  This is a very complex analog+digital amplification processing.  Voila!! the S-Master inherent flaws of “hisses/noises” from the “switching MOSFET” are canceled (noise cancelLation!!)  From this result, the output power has been upped to a mighty 1200mW@32 ohm.  *Also, under this implementations of Hybrid amp, the S-Master now technically is a True Balanced Amplifier.  I will point out the evidence soon later *

And before people can Yell “Liar!!” It can’t be playing 4-200Khz ....

well, hold your horse.  This is S-Master with Direct digital amplifications, and after the amplifications, the frequencies bandwidth are fully covered completely from 4-200Khz.  This is unlike traditional DAC, which the Low Pass Filters are implemented Before Amplification.  S-Master apply LPF After amplifications, so it is safe, legally, technically means that it playing frequency is literally 4-200Khz

Back to the True Balanced S-Master.  The TA-ZH1ES do offer single ended output, but in order to pull the true balanced amplified signals to be Single ended, the SE output have to use Transformers OutPut !

This is exciting, because this means while it has lower voltage, the current is actually higher ! So you will still be having almost the same power output by ohm laws in single ended, but lower voltage means being lower In volume. Anyways, give it a try, you may like it, especially when some gears will do better with higher current rather than higher voltage. Remember that these *transformers will need to be burnEd-in too!*

Part II will be incoming later


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 4, 2022)

*Analog amplifications:*

This takes directly the Pre PWM clocked, generated pulses as a square waves, then feeding it directly toward analog amplification stage that consists of JRC opamp chips that has high slew rate, dynamic range of 120Db with low noises and THD.  This JRC is Japan Radio Company, and they are best known as producing MUSES product lines.

It is adjustable with a Remote control enabled potentiometers.  Could this be digital attenuations ? After all, a part of the amplifications is Digital.

*Volume controls*

While there is a part of Digital amplification is taking it role, the analog amplification has nothing to do with digital attenuations.  The reasons being that digital info and digital wave form are once again, best not be tampered at this stage as it is a Post-processed PWM.  Even if it has errors, or flaws, it is still the original.  For this purposes, Sony has chosen to implement MUSES72320.  This is an Electronic Analog volume controls.  This is only for the Negative phases, which is only Half of the main amplifications.  Even though it is only half of the amplifications, the TA-ZH1ES is configured to run a full time true balanced out put.  *Also, this is your Preamp output as well.  But how come the preamp output is only RCA or single ended ?*  This is where it is interesting, because Sony stated that this is only half of the hybrid circuitry.  They also literally meant it, and that is why your pre-amp is only Single-Ended.  But this is still the result of S-Master works.  The true balanced configurations then carried on internally toward the next circuitry to help further reinforcing the S-Master Direct Digital performances.

*DC-Phase Linearizer *
unlike the Walkman and DMP-Z1, which is using DSP to induce a small phase shift in the low frequency that is mimicking the analog amplifier sound performances.  Over here, we have Analog amplification, and even if it is Unnecessary, Sony still given us a choice by physically implementing a physical DC coupling Electrolytic capacitor.  This can be enabled by a physical relay by simply choosing to enable DC-Phase Linearizer.  *Lady and gentlemen , presenting dedicated and discrete DC-Phase Linearizer feature!*


*Onto the Digital amplifications*

As the name implicated, it is digital, hence the potentiometer also is digitally adjustable by Analog devices chips.  This is basically the S-Master being the S-Master, and before anyone would question, what about amplitudes, losing dynamic ranges...etc...like Sony mentioned on DMP-Z1 and their usage of RK501 analog pot ?  That is basically a problem for typical DAC chips, not Sony.  Then, allow me to answer with a question that who can understand and design a better S-Master than Sony ? .



*S-Master*

Being advertised as S-Master HX is very confusing, because Walkman also using S-Master HX.  However, the TA-ZH1ES is a Desktop version of it, literally so, and uniquely so.  Just by looking at it ability to DSD512 and PCM768Khz.  This is the first of it kind.

The core of the processing is FPGA based on a powerful Altera Cyclone family, with DSP being done dedicatedly by hardware implementations of DSP Dual Analog devices chips, with the Pulse drives being lay out discretely from chips to chips including the supportive components of resistors, clocking, capacitors....etc...Lady and gentlemen, why worry about Discrete R2R ? _*Presenting Discrete High-resolution S-Master .  Forget about this small S-master chip inside Walkman.  The entire TA-ZH1ES is S-Master itself.*_  You will not find this little small chip inside TA-ZH1ES
**

_*TA-ZH1ES doesn’t rely all on software to DSP, it rely on discrete hardware components!! By building it around the FPGA, the TA can be programmed further to futureproof*_.  But whether Sony will support it ? That is another story.


----------



## nc8000 (May 3, 2022)

While a lot of this info is beyond my technical knowledge and understanding it is none the less fascinating to read and just enhances my respect for the TA as a special piece of kit. I’ve had it for 5 1/2 years and expect to have it for many more years


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 3, 2022)

*DSD Remastering and DSEEHX*

DSD Remastering:  this is also easily confused as well.  *While on the typical sigma delta DAC chips*, all of the modulations will result into a DSD bit stream before it passes onto filterings to become analog signals.  *The S-Master completely stays with digital domain*.  Therefore as mentioned above, the low pass filter networks are different.  However, Sony found that *by using the same direct digital amplifications* and applying it toward S-Master processing, *the sound is very desirable*.  This is why FPGA is the brain of the whole entire system.  It can incorporate the S-Master processing, together with the processing of 1 bit streams, and fully controllable to be directly amplified digitally.  This is very different from using an FPGA, then coding it as a DAC chips that uses delta-sigma modulators or, NOS processing.  We are talking about Sony with digital direct amplifications VS a Conversions that is analog amplification of typical DAC implementations.

The differences between using DSD Remastering VS S-Master processing is that, Sony is amplifying this 1 bit stream by Direct digital amplifications.  While without this features, the S-Master will carry on from it nature of being multibit of Post-PWM and directly amplifying it.  These two demonstrate a very different use cases of Direct Digital amplifications.

DSEE-HX:  using Dual Analog Devices DSP chips, the upscaling is done upto 384Khz by these two dedicated chips.  *This upscaled PCM then can be carried onto by 2 different topology of direct digital amplifications*, whether to be processed with S-Master multibit and Pulse generators, or to apply sigma-delta modulation at 8X and come out at DSD256 (DSD remastering engine).  Either way you chose, the performances are there, and featured, that there is no right and no wrong.  They are both done dedicatedly and discretely, and Sony wants you to enjoy it.


----------



## Whitigir

nc8000 said:


> While a lot of this info is beyond my technical knowledge and understanding it is non the less fascinating to read and just enhances my respect for the TA as a special piece of kit. I’ve had it for 5 1/2 years and expect to have it for many more years


The new signature series are being released..I may be just here to help them selling their next TA-ZH1ES MKII XX....LOL! I am tired typing out all of the name in these posts.  Anyways, I am here again because the TA-ZH1ES is superbly built, and now can be had from the used market at a much lower price.  The potentials of improving it by modifications is “Vast”!


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## nc8000

Redcarmoose said:


>


Is that the Dunu Blanche you are using ?


----------



## Redcarmoose

https://www.dunu-topsound.com/product-page/duw-03

I have two, 2 pin and MMCX.


nc8000 said:


> Is that the Dunu Blanche you are using ?


----------



## nc8000

Redcarmoose said:


> https://www.dunu-topsound.com/product-page/duw-03
> 
> I have two, 2 pin and MMCX.


I've go 2 Blanche MMCX and a set of MMCX to 2-pin adaptors for my JH13


----------



## kefs

I use Blanche and Noble mmxc with my Audiofly's


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 5, 2022)

*TA-ZH1ES Interfaces and power supplies*
The TA-ZH1ES is a digital integrated DAC/Amp for headphones, and can also act as a preamp out (S-Master).  Therefore, the only viable input for the TA is USB connections.  Of course , you can also have Coax or optical.  However,  neither coax nor optical can accept native DSD input.  They are limited at 192Khz and 96Khz respectively.  For anything higher than this, you will need to make use of USB ports.

The best USB port to use is the USB Type B! That is because it not only offers the highest inputs of upto PCM 768Khz and DSD512, it also is a direct on board USB type B connection.

The Walkman or Micro USB port is only about 1/2 of what the Type B in the back can accept.  It also run an interconnecting of a typical generic USB cables from along the side toward the back of the board to get to the usb interface.  If the rates don’t matter, then _It is your choices to whether run an upgraded USB-B cables to the back externally, or having Sony to run a generic one internally from the side to the back_

USB interfaces are very important, because they are pre-PWM waves form. So, everything within this chain will have an impacts *(Host devices operating system, host devices playback app, host devices usb out interfaces, host devices toward TA ZH1ES usb cables) and even the interfaces of a DAC will matter*.

TA ZH1ES is unlike other external DAC that are using the external modules that are being mass produced by Amanero, and that is Amanero 384.  This Amanero module is using a processor from AtMel, which is running of upto 100Mhz top speed.  You can also find similar on all Chord products as well.  The TA-ZH1ES is utilizing a more future proof Texas Instruments Chip that is *capable of 4.5X faster speed*.  It is pretty easy to understand that Sony as a pioneer of digital worlds, they have no problems of implementing their own chips interfaces, where as other makers would have to rely on 3rd party off the shelves, or even to incorporate them into their own boards.  *This is all for the sake of quality digital music and it performances *



*Power supplies*

Being a very compact devices , that many people would find themselves asking, does Sony use switching power supplies similar to that of Chord ? And or other makers ?

The answer is that , No ! Sony is using Linear Regulated Power Supplies (IC chip and not discrete).  Sony had gone a great length to implement what I would call a Local Linear regulated power supplies.  What it means is that they would have a different sections that requires a different voltage rails to be Linear Regulated right next to it, rather than having a separated power supply unit in a section and isolated away from the whole main board.  *Everything is Linear Regulated*, there is no single switching power supply to be found 

*Pros*:  it has the shortest paths, and can be more compacts but with great chassis design and PCB layout.  *Cons*: it is not shielded/isolated away from other components.  IMO, the shortest paths are a more preferable method


----------



## Halimj7

Why do you think Sony made the TA’s output power so low?


----------



## nc8000

Halimj7 said:


> Why do you think Sony made the TA’s output power so low?


I would think it is plenty powerfull enough for 95% af all headphones on the market including anything Sony is offering. The only headphone I’ve tried that it couldn’t drive properly was the HiFiMan HE-6


----------



## Halimj7

nc8000 said:


> I would think it is plenty powerfull enough for 95% af all headphones on the market including anything Sony is offering. The only headphone I’ve tried that it couldn’t drive properly was the HiFiMan HE-6


I agree it drives everything that I own and have owned including Abyss Diana beautifully and I haves loved it for over 3 years but this does seem to be the only complaint about it.


----------



## Whitigir

Even the screws are beautiful Copper alloy screws


----------



## Hinomotocho

Whitigir said:


> Even the screws are beautiful Copper alloy screws


Is the copper purity 99.96% or 99.99%?

Sorry, couldn't resist. 

As the thread activity had faded a bit in recent months I am enjoying these details and refreshed respect for the TA.


----------



## Whitigir

Hinomotocho said:


> Is the copper purity 99.96% or 99.99%?
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist.
> 
> As the thread activity had faded a bit in recent months I am enjoying these details and refreshed respect for the TA.


Possibly 79.99% and some iron nickels mixed up.  So that it is conductive and still resisting oxidization together with a little magnetism !! 

S-Master HX Walkman what ? 
DSEE HX what ? Ultimate to 192Khz ? Here is to 352.8Khz from 44.1Khz


----------



## kefs

Whitigir said:


> Possibly 79.99% and some iron nickels mixed up.  So that it is conductive and still resisting oxidization together with a little magnetism !!
> 
> S-Master HX Walkman what ?
> DSEE HX what ? Ultimate to 192Khz ? Here is to 352.8Khz from 44.1Khz


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 8, 2022)

*TAZ analog input *

Due to the TAZ which is a discrete S-Master category DAC being the analog input is all converted to digital of upto DSD256 or PCM192Khz.  Of course this is done by AKM sample rate converter and analog to digital converter


*TAZ sound softer with bloom and not as punchy or Tight as other amplifiers *

that is because the TAZ is Non-feedback in principle.  So the sound is more mellow and mostly into mid range sweetness rather than being Hi-Fi.  Not only that Sony advertised so, but the design architect is also indicating so



The interesting thing is that the hybrid design actually is using Analog amplification of Post PWM to amplify the Square waves, and taking the feedback from the S-Master digital amplifications which is yet another square waves amplifications , but differently as in a senses that it reclocks and generates pulses, then driving it with current boosting together with higher voltage feed.  It is directly Digital, so the pre PWM signals were not Feedback, hence the Post PWM isn’t feedback and the analog hybrid feedback is actually Purely controlling Noises from the switches noises of the transistors from S-Master output.  This design is ingenious and it is Non Feedback, the evidence is easily observable.

In the PreAmp out, the reason why TAZ only has the RCA or single ended output is due to this design as well, as I mentioned previously

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...-amplifier-live-from-ifa-2016.818848/page-307

The preamp out is from Analog circuitry side of the TAZ, running true balanced, but pre amplifier out to be SE, and the reason is because over the differential stage, using Opamp, incorporating feedbacks, the output is noise free from the S-Master generating pulses and it topology.  Therefore, the best way for someone to enjoy a more Hi-Fi punchiness signature is to utilize the “Pre-amp” output of the TAZ and feeding toward an external Amplifier that has Negative Feedback.  *By doing this, you have some what feedbacks from the unique pre-Amp out by S-Master (which is then canceled by it own amplification for phones out) and then having true analog feedback from your external Amp.*  Once again, the result is easily observable.

One of the reason why Sony stays with S-Master is that the Crystal clocks pulses are more accurate than transistors.  More musical, yet noisy due to the inherent switching of transistors on the output which was also amplified together.  Hence the TAZ hybrid technology canceled it out as stated .  Best of both worlds


Negative feedbacks amplifier has this sound that you will be looking for or craving for and it is in it intentional design.  Why ? Simply put, it extends the bandwidth, reduce distortions and noises. You can read more into the link provided below


https://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/what-is-negative-feedback

Now, why did I mention about S-Master being discrete built on TA-ZH1ES?

Because it doesn’t use any one chip, or Walkman Portable S-Master chip either.  It has the FPGA to be the main processing algorithms , where DSP can also aids it in it progress, and by using dedicated DSP Board which consists of 2X Chips are putting the TAZ in a class of it own, because all current line of S-Master HX or even DMP Z1 are all upscaling with software algorithms.  This is the first reasons that qualifies the S-Master to be Discrete

Secondly, the Pulses and clocking as then being Reclocked and drive directly with IC chips and *not being contained / confined in one single chip as Walkman S-Master HX* .  So, using resistors array qualify a DAC to be discrete resistors ladder.  Then, Sony, using S-Master by FPGA, Crystal oscillators and IC chips clocking + pulses driving will also qualify the TAZ as a Discrete S-Master.

*So, who cares about Discrete resistor ladders ? Sony is doing S-Master discrete and people don’t even pay much attention at all *


----------



## kefs

Personally i turn all off, to my ears all settings change negatively, particularly more closed in sound


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 8, 2022)

*Hi gain and Low gain*

The TAZ offers Hi and Lo Gain as a features

*The TA-ZH1ES performing best with Low gain*, and not in high gain.  The result is very noticeable that the TAZ becomes overly warm and saturated while compromising the dynamic achieved as well.  That is because the TAZ was built and engineered around Discrete S-Master with Low gain, and high-gain is simply an Add on for additional features that raise the voltage rails a bit with trade off.

Current draws and generating Pulses are designed with Low gain, and each time the system have to compromises the current for the amplitudes, there will be trade off.  This is unlike the effect from PHA-3 which is hardly observable as they are Chip based, and not S-Master, let alone discrete S-Master.  You can easily tell them apart.


*High gain:*

The TAZ loses it headrooms, and can even distort in some complex bass passages, it is also observed that there may even be saturation’s similar to tubes saturation’s where the transients and fidelity are degraded, which results in overly warmth and blooming for bass, and sizzling/grainy for highs

*Low gain:*

This mode, the TAZ is showing off all it can do, micro and macro dynamic are not effected even at the complex bass and high passages.  Tonal balances are more accurate, which helps improving imaging, staging and layering.  The compromises is that the amp would need to be pushed toward 75% or so for louder listening during the day.  But not to worry, as it is a switching amplifications, and under this topology, they drive the load better when being pushed rather than the opposite .

*Input selections *

TAZ perform best with USB PC (Type B in the back) as the Walkman on the side is limited at 192Khz/DSD256 which also internally running a generic cables toward the back.

Coax and Optical are both going to feed into the Sample rate converters by AKM, which is similar to (Not staying to the original wave forms and format)

*Once again, similar to Low gain, the TAZ were designed from the ground up revolving around USB type B as the main Input.  The other features seems to be an additional add on for marketing’s and practicality, and not sound quality *



If you asked me whether the HOST or (DAP/Transport/PC) have any effects in the sound performances ? I would say yes, and you can also observe that too! In other systems, this effects isn’t as much as with the TAZ, and it turned out that the TAZ is

*Non feedback direct digital amplifier*

So, the better your HOST devices, and USB cables, the better your TAZ will perform


----------



## Redcarmoose

Halimj7 said:


> Why do you think Sony made the TA’s output power so low?


It’s not really that low power. It plays well with all I own? Though I guess your right there is a bunch of headphones that require juice out there......but I don’t own them.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 8, 2022)

Halimj7 said:


> Why do you think Sony made the TA’s output power so low?


*Size matters!*

First of all, starting out by the compacted design of the TAZ.  It can fit on your hands, and you can even carry it with you from room to room, given that you already have power cables readily at each room, or you can pocket that and bring with you.

Now, with other designs such as

Transformer R-core for main AC, transformers for Line filters, Transformers for USB and DC regulators for digital feeds and Transformers for Single ended output .  You are looking at 1 giant transformer and 4 other smaller one

Then all of the regulators from Main supplies are Regulated Linear power supply, they did not cheat out for the efficiency of switching but noisy Switching type , like Chord stuff.

Next to the main regulators, there are local regulators which is also Linear regulated rails for each of it circuits, which includes : Power Amp, Pre-Amp, Drive stages, Boost stages…etc…no corner cut

Next up is the heat dissipations since the current supplied by the power supply unit will need to be powerful and stable enough to supply everything, but with first and foremost being compact!!  Especially when it is the life line of the S-Master.  They have to be mounted carefully onto the chassis as a heat sink.

Then finally Hybrid amplifications, and that is like 3 technologies cramped into 1.  Discrete S-Master processing , Direct drive digital and Analog amplification.

I gotta say that I am quiet Amazed with this build

You may think that it doesn’t have much of a number references on paper as other stuff , because it only has 1200mW X 2 @32ohms.  *But make no mistake, the TAZ is not only the most powerful S-Master but also the most quiet and lowest noise floor.  *


----------



## Whitigir

If you *Need and want to just stack up your transport device* (Host device).  *The best spot* is to have it onto the Right side and even toward the input right corner.

The reason being is that at this section, the R-Core transformers magnetic field will not effect your host devices as it is canceled out at the top of it core



The Red illustrate the placement of the R-Core transformer, and the Green line illustrate the portions where the Magnetic field completely canceled out


----------



## endless402

Whitigir said:


> If you *Need and want to just stack up your transport device* (Host device).  *The best spot* is to have it onto the Right side and even toward the input right corner.
> 
> The reason being is that at this section, the R-Core transformers magnetic field will not effect your host devices as it is canceled out at the top of it core
> 
> ...


what usb cable is that?!


----------



## Whitigir

endless402 said:


> what usb cable is that?!


DIY solid silver cables Type C - OTG and Type B


----------



## nc8000

Whitigir said:


> If you *Need and want to just stack up your transport device* (Host device).  *The best spot* is to have it onto the Right side and even toward the input right corner.
> 
> The reason being is that at this section, the R-Core transformers magnetic field will not effect your host devices as it is canceled out at the top of it core
> 
> ...


Interestingly that is just about where my Auralic Aries Mini sits


----------



## Woodlands

Whitigir said:


> The preamp out is from Analog circuitry side of the TAZ, running true balanced, but pre amplifier out to be SE, and the reason is because over the differential stage, using Opamp, incorporating feedbacks, the output is noise free from the S-Master generating pulses and it topology.


I use the preamp out as much or more than headphone out.  Very happy Sony included this functionality.


----------



## VancityDreaming

Should I buy TAZH1ES, Hugo 2, or Cayin N8ii for my ier-z1r?🤔


----------



## Whitigir

VancityDreaming said:


> Should I buy TAZH1ES, Hugo 2, or Cayin N8ii for my ier-z1r?🤔


IER Z1R ? I would call N8ii


----------



## endless402

VancityDreaming said:


> Should I buy TAZH1ES, Hugo 2, or Cayin N8ii for my ier-z1r?🤔


woah another vancouver person with a Z1R

ZH1ES is my vote, based on current experience with H2 and ZH1ES.


----------



## VancityDreaming

endless402 said:


> woah another vancouver person with a Z1R
> 
> ZH1ES is my vote, based on current experience with H2 and ZH1ES.


Yes sir. It's defs my end game iem. Interesting, I guess its split between the ta-zh1es and N8ii. 

Does anyone use an amp with the ta-zh1es? The common complaint is that it is lacking power.


----------



## nc8000

VancityDreaming said:


> Yes sir. It's defs my end game iem. Interesting, I guess its split between the ta-zh1es and N8ii.
> 
> Does anyone use an amp with the ta-zh1es? The common complaint is that it is lacking power.


The TA is an execelent amp, where do you get this “common complaint” idea from ?


----------



## VancityDreaming

nc8000 said:


> The TA is an execelent amp, where do you get this “common complaint” idea from ?


Just something I've picked up from reading forums and watching video reviews. But I could/wish to be wrong,


----------



## endless402

VancityDreaming said:


> Just something I've picked up from reading forums and watching video reviews. But I could/wish to be wrong,


people just like a lot of headroom and big specs. no problem with driving the majority of headphones out there

synergy is different question, ppl blame power with lack of synergy 

low gain you'll be at about -35, high gain at about -45


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 11, 2022)

Even if the power output is not as crazy as people would expect it to be.  I don’t find it to be underpowered anyways.  The other great features about TAZ is the Pre-Out, or a True Line Out for S-Master.

I have posted about this previously, just pair it preout with external amplifier.

The TAZ is very sensitive to all things surrounding it.

*Starting off is with The AC outlet*.  If your AC outlet is shared with other devices or appliances that could induce DC back into the AC lines, your TA will have a more muddying, and blooming signatures.  If you have it up to a dedicated outlet which is directly customized from your wall to the Breaker panel, your TAZ will be at it best


*Next up is the power cables. *If you are using stock cables, you will also face similar degradations as the AC outlet.  The performances will see improvements in better articulations, sharper textures or better fidelity, and better clarity overall.  But this isn’t as impactful as the AC outlet.

*If you can’t have a dedicated outlet*.  Then you will be using Power Conditioner.  This will also help your TAZ to get improved performances, but in comparison to the dedicated outlet, the TAZ will have a less blooming bass and faster roll off on the highs.  Anyways, it is still much better than bad and contaminated AC outlets

*Then USB cables*:  If you simply use generic and cheap usb cables, you will also not hearing the best that the TAZ can and do have to offers.  I have compared between Solid Silver USB VS generic one, and the imagings, staging, layerings are all improved.



*Mostly will Be your Transport*, or Host device, or PC/Streamer/DAP.  I have compared different DAP as a digital transports.  However, the best I am settling for is currently Cayin N8ii.

*Finally.*  Everything do really effect your TAZ final performances.  Those variations are more observable in PCM , and will be less observable with DSD-Remastering.

You may hear a “*Myth*” that, _when your DAC and Amps are designed correctly, then nothing should have effected it_.  Let’s alone different cables or transports to greatly varied in performances.  Well! The truth is that *there is no perfection* in the universe.  So, engineerings have different ways to tackles with different situations and scenarios.  _Since nothing is perfect, the claims above is just a “Myth”._

One topology that would greatly allows the engineers to cheat out is Feedback VS Non feedback.  It is similar to Non Over Sampling and Over Sampling.  And since they are all cheating, they would have to opt for which to achieve and which to compromises.

With Feedbacks, the bandwidth and greater dynamic/resolutions can be achieved together with less distortions.  It also render the system being less susceptible toward different changes surrounding it as mentioned above.  However, it may sound “artificial” to some people, while some people would find it to be “HiFi” and desirable.

The same as NOS Vs OS, there are always different preferences.

*Back to TAZ*:  the reason why everything will effect the TAZ is simply the whole system was designed to be *Non Feedback *.  Sony is always aiming toward staying closest to the original signals, regardless of it being with some “errors”.  It is such in a way that, naturally “errors” is still better than artificial enhancements kinda deal.  Though Sony also using some engineering voodoo to allow the TAZ to be what it is.

*Finally*:

After observing the TAZ, it behavior’s, studying it designs, architecture and implementations.  Eventhough Sony had built a great devices here, there are always room for improvements.  Every massively produced products would always face these scenarios

1/ Project budget ceiling (a limit where it production cost can not exceed)

2/ Mechanical design limitations VS Electrical engineerings (a chassis is designed to be too big or too small before both teams can settle down)

3/ Profit and sustainability.  This is pretty easy to understand, the larger the company, the more they would have to sustain.

4/ Easy of serviceability, for example, the main engineers won’t be the one to perform warranty on defected devices.  It would be another team such as technical service teams.  Because of this, the easier to service the devices is the better.  We all know that electronic devices , they can just quit working mysteriously.  One of the service ability I mentioned would be to design the devices such as Modulars, and that allows each module to be replaced entirely, easily.  But the more connections, the more solder joins, is the more degradations, period.

*Upgraded TAZ: *Internal wires upgraded to Pure Solid Silver, and discrete Linear Voltage regulators!  Since the system is Non Feedback, a much more superior in noise rejections, distortions, and transients response Linear Regulators will greatly benefit the system as a whole.


----------



## purk

@Whitigir,

You are my hero!


----------



## Whitigir

purk said:


> @Whitigir,
> 
> You are my hero!


Well, thank you my friend.  There are unique attributes about S-Master that we can not get from anywhere else.  For one example, the sampling and the pulses were done by the computational power and the oscillators rather than being purely calculated and processed like transistors based CPU + a conversion programs.  By doing that, the pulses and it timing are more coherent and able to achieve nuances details.

But for people who have listened to S-Master, there can be no denying that S-Master always has special characteristics to it. 

Being the most powerful and clean S-Master at the moment, and with features that can give us more practicality such as line out toward external systems…etc.  What else can one hoped for ? Beside maximizing the potentials of it ? I am doing this out of pure enthusiasm toward S-Master and Sony.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 12, 2022)

A snapshot of an internal board 

Those are the connectors for the front outputs.  Clearly shown is the SET transformers for Single ended output and Sony favorite Fine Gold.  And the internal connecting wires


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 13, 2022)

Upgrading the Pre-Out with Solid pure silver cores, and braided copper shielding!



This is to be taking advantages of the TAZ “Analog amplifications from S-Master” as a unique features.

This solves 2 problems and a bonus!!

1/ the craving for S-Master sound

2/ more power ! And feeding top of the line amplifier !!

3/ Tubes craving ? Western Electric 300B ? Why not



Why is this feature so special ? And regrettably, not many people realize and or appreciate it

*Analog Pre amplification*

This is 1/2 of the circuit that completes the TAZ as an integrated DAC/Amp.  This side is taking the Pulses of Post-PWM* generated by S-Master *and gone through it own Passive low pass filter which consists of Capacitors, resistors, inductor, and then fed directly toward dedicated dual Op-Amp as Line Buffer Amp! that is from JRC (Japan Radio Company) which is the parent of MUSES.

Yes, this side has completely balanced and dedicated S-Master processing pulses:

That is 4 line of dedicated signals

Left Negative
Left Positive
Right Negative
Right Positive

This renders this side of the circuitry to be true balanced.  They are then fed toward 2X Opamp of Dual Channels.  Finally to be Differentiated and fused together by Pre-Amp side to Eliminate the switching noises of the S-Master and rid off Intermodulation distortions.  Also this is going toward the Hybrid circuitry to then keep on going toward the headphones output

*But what makes it so special ? It is Negative feedback S-Master.  But the phone output is actually Non Feedback !!! That makes TAZ to be a Swiss knife !! *

S-Master with Analog amplification !

S-Master with Feedbacks !

S-Master that is the cleanest from all S-Master by far.  Lady and gentle man ! The desktop discrete S-Master HX !!!

Yet, you can amplify it with your favorite amp !!



Of course then, what is the point in upgrading it throughout ? If I cheap out on Interconnect XLR ?

Dual Neotech UPOCC coppers gold plating with UPOCC 16AWG Solid Silver and OFC copper shielding

Then the output is Cardas directly forged pins connections for adapters from RCA to XLR (rhodium over silver plating)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KNYX1ZV?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details



I have brought and realized my Sony love to the next level ! And I am super duper happy with TAZ


----------



## Gamerlingual

Whitigir said:


> Upgrading the Pre-Out with Solid pure silver cores, and braided copper shielding!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How does the stock sound compare to the stock sound to the DMP when using the MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R?


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 14, 2022)

Gamerlingual said:


> How does the stock sound compare to the stock sound to the DMP when using the MDR-Z1R and IER-Z1R?


Both are warmth signatures, but with the TAZ being warmer and blooming than DMP.  In the while the DMP also has tighter and sharper textures.

*On technicalities, the DMP is both a feedback amplifier together with analog amplifier,  where as the TAZ is a Non feedback and Hybrid amplifier.*

When using preout from TAZ that takes advantages of the feedback circuit, the bloom is less, and the textures are sharper, but then it would depend greatly on the external amplifier.  Any how, this brings the signatures closer to the DMP.  My conclusion is that S-Master has it own uniqueness that can’t be had from other chips, for example, AKM in DMP.  This is due to the much explained differences between generating pulses with Crystal oscillators VS computational power from IC chips.

Just when in stock, the TAZ is constantly blooming and together with warm signature, it isn’t as enjoyable as DMP.  My friends who tried pre-out double confirmed to me that the preout is a lot better VS phones out on TAZ, and another also confirmed that the phones out is with too much bloom, soft textures and hazes compare to other top of the line systems…including DMP.  *Turned out that preout is a feedback output*

While I am thinking that I have been swinging around, just to seek this S-Master signatures.  Looking into M2 Walkman, I was let down that they don’t  offer: true line out, or newer S-Master.  But rather bringing it back to be with an FPGA, while the TAZ has been having it all along.  Therefore, I studied and analyzed it, to improve it at the right places.

The TAZ as it sits now, is addictive, and much better than DMP in many practicalities, and sound signatures, they are both still very different.  The only thing that is resembling Sony house sound on both is just the warm signatures

But regardless of what you do, the fact is that TAZ is the only S-Master that has true LO, remains until the next products to be revealed


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 14, 2022)

Whitigir said:


> Both are warmth signatures, but with the TAZ being warmer and blooming than DMP.  In the while the DMP also has tighter and sharper textures.
> 
> *On technicalities, the DMP is both a feedback amplifier together with analog amplifier,  where as the TAZ is a Non feedback and Hybrid amplifier.*
> 
> ...


What is interesting is you sold your 1st TA prior to the new firmware update. Well......lol......it’s not that new. Still you sold before that. What firmware are you running now?


----------



## Whitigir

Redcarmoose said:


> What is interesting is you sold your 1st TA prior to the new firmware update. Well......lol......it’s not that new. Still you sold before that. What firmware are you running now?


I sold it way early due to those uncontrollable blooms and soft haziness textures .... but I have been craving S-Master all along, holding out, hoping for better Walkman or S-master later......5 years later, and....I am here doing what I can sigh..


----------



## Gamerlingual

Whitigir said:


> Both are warmth signatures, but with the TAZ being warmer and blooming than DMP.  In the while the DMP also has tighter and sharper textures.
> 
> *On technicalities, the DMP is both a feedback amplifier together with analog amplifier,  where as the TAZ is a Non feedback and Hybrid amplifier.*
> 
> ...


Simply speaking, since I own the TA and the 1Z, there's most likely no need for the DMP. All the hours of sampling the DMP-Z1 with the MDR and IER and I could hardly hear a difference. Yet, even I use the same source with the different headphones, I can pick out all the differences in the headphones. So that tells me my ears don't lie. 

Still, TA, 1Z, DMP, etc. All of Sony's audio is amazing no matter how I look at it


----------



## Redcarmoose (Apr 14, 2022)

Whitigir said:


> I sold it way early due to those uncontrollable blooms and soft haziness textures .... but I have been craving S-Master all along, holding out, hoping for better Walkman or S-master later......5 years later, and....I am here doing what I can sigh..


Sony has a latest of 1.03 as the firmware update. I’m thinking you never heard that update? Until now?

I mean to me the older software was darker, and blooming?


----------



## Whitigir

Redcarmoose said:


> Sony has a latest of 1.03 as the firmware update. I’m thinking you never heard that update? Until now?
> 
> I mean to me the older software was darker, and blooming?


That is true, but the newer firmware doesn’t really do all that much.  Firmware is one thing and hardware is just another


----------



## Redcarmoose

Whitigir said:


> That is true, but the newer firmware doesn’t really do all that much.  Firmware is one thing and hardware is just another


But it did change it slightly. I remember when it must have been 2019 when MrWalkman firmware was just starting and I had the idea to check my firmware on the TA. Sure enough it was an earlier one, then I updated and it did make one of my headphones different. Just slightly different. It made it less dark.


----------



## Whitigir

Redcarmoose said:


> But it did change it slightly. I remember when it must have been 2019 when MrWalkman firmware was just starting and I had the idea to check my firmware on the TA. Sure enough it was an earlier one, then I updated and it did make one of my headphones different. Just slightly different. It made it less dark.


It really does, no question about it.  Remember ? This S-Master is a discrete built, and the core processing is the FPGA.  That makes the TAZ future proof, whether Sony continue supporting and developing firmware is another matter.  Yes, I am familiar with Walkman firmware and their performances as well


----------



## purk

I have both the DMP and TAZH1ES and the TA is very good but it has some flaws.  Compared to other amplifiers or desktop DAC/Amp in my collections, the TA has softer sound with slightly bit too much bloom. It is also warmer than most amps and the midrange is a warmer and thicker sounding compared to my reference amps including the DMP.  Another department that the TA falls a little short is the spatial cues.  I still love the TA despite my criticism.  Anyone want to sell one to me for around $1250?


----------



## Whitigir

The mods I upgraded were not aimed toward the sound signature tuning.  But making the TA being more technical and capable.  A lot better transients responds, tighter, better textures, more dynamic, and overall a lot more controlled in the uniqueness of S-master bloom


----------



## Gamerlingual

purk said:


> I have both the DMP and TAZH1ES and the TA is very good but it has some flaws.  Compared to other amplifiers or desktop DAC/Amp in my collections, the TA has softer sound with slightly bit too much bloom. It is also warmer than most amps and the midrange is a warmer and thicker sounding compared to my reference amps including the DMP.  Another department that the TA falls a little short is the spatial cues.  I still love the TA despite my criticism.  Anyone want to sell one to me for around $1250?


No machine is perfect. But if it makes our ears happy, that’s what matters. I felt the TA matched up to the DMP pound for pound. But that doesn’t mean both are flawed. That’s just what my ears analyzed. Whatever anyone has, just love it and cherish it


----------



## kefs

Gamerlingual said:


> No machine is perfect. But if it makes our ears happy, that’s what matters. I felt the TA matched up to the DMP pound for pound. But that doesn’t mean both are flawed. That’s just what my ears analyzed. Whatever anyone has, just love it and cherish it


Yep, less time chasing, more time enjoying


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 17, 2022)

The TA-ZH1ES isn’t really dark and silence in the background.  The haziness can also be observed from upper mid and highs on fine textures.

So I took sometimes and applied noises absorbent sheets.  This is used by the portable S-Master inside Walkman NW-WM1A/Z as well.  However is not used here in the TAZ.

This is not quantum sheets



But this is measured and proven by the Industry as pictured




So, FPGA and Analog Devices chips are all a part of the discrete S-Master, together with amp out and pulses/clock generations, which are highly subjective to EMI noises and radiations from switching IC chips in close proximity.

I have chose to applied these absorbent sheets toward them to further improve the rejections of the noises susceptibility on these components.

The results is a more opened staging/imaging, and blacker background.  Bass is also deeper with better textures

Also, can you spot Fine sound register (resistors) ?


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 20, 2022)

The final stage of my modifications is the *sound tuning of course* .  The output capacitors are through hole, which makes it a breeze to roll different capacitors in and try out before settling down for that direct solder.

Out of all of the capacitors that I have opted for, surprisingly the Kasei one is the best of the match.  Yes, it is a lot larger than the Nichicon fine gold.  But it does a much better job.

The improvements are stunning with Kasei series here in this application.  Vastly improving the width of staging, much blacker back ground, textures is yet taken another step upgraded on it fidelity.  Details are even more vivid with trebles extensions much smoother.  Bass is still super deep but very well articulated, the blooming is also a lot more controlled

Simply put, Nichicon fine gold unleashed the S-Master blooms and ripples like nothing else out there, uncontrollable.  Kasei here has tamed the beast, disciplined it, and transformed it into a super model 

My final stage of modifications in my TA-ZH1EX


----------



## purk

So awesome @Whitigir !!


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 25, 2022)

From this article, I further confirmed that the best S-Master to listen to is the TA-ZH1ES… as of and at this moment.

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:23244/fulltext01.pdf

The reason being is that it is Direct Pulse Drive generators, and with analog Amplifications together with Feedback just for the Pre-amp out, or Line out.

When paired with my Tube amplifier, usually I love Non feedback, but with TAZ as a source, I enjoy Feedback a lot more on my amplifier as well. Tonal balances is pretty amazing


----------



## Redcarmoose

Cheers! 


Whitigir said:


> From this article, I further confirmed that the best S-Master to listen to is the TA-ZH1ES… as of and at this moment.
> 
> The reason being is that it is Direct Pulse Drive generators, and with analog Amplifications together with Feedback just for the Pre-amp out, or Line out.
> 
> When paired with my Tube amplifier, usually I love Non feedback, but with TAZ as a source, I enjoy Feedback a lot more on my amplifier as well. Tonal balances is pretty amazing


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 25, 2022)

Redcarmoose said:


> Cheers!


Just updated my quoted post with the article and it link .  Check it out, it is pretty good and help us understand more about S-Master



Sonywalkmanuser said:


> @Whitigir
> This is a highly technical pdf on direct digital amplifiers(like the S-master HX?), I think this is something that you will enjoy reading:
> 
> https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:23244/fulltext01.pdf


thanks to @Sonywalkmanuser in this post.  I finally found a technical explanations as into why I like pre-out a lot on TAZ

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-sony-nw-wm1z-m2-wm1a-m2.962054/post-16932177


----------



## grabrom

Whitigir said:


> Even if the power output is not as crazy as people would expect it to be.  I don’t find it to be underpowered anyways.  The other great features about TAZ is the Pre-Out, or a True Line Out for S-Master.
> 
> I have posted about this previously, just pair it preout with external amplifier.
> 
> ...


Great explanations thank you.
I was wondering what kind of specs for the power cable you built for the TA-ZH1ES? As i suppose you have tried different ones.


----------



## Whitigir

grabrom said:


> Great explanations thank you.
> I was wondering what kind of specs for the power cable you built for the TA-ZH1ES? As i suppose you have tried different ones.


Those are 14 Awg per wire of pure solid silver for power cables


----------



## grabrom

I guess I'll be giving a go at DIY cable soon. 
I spend full weeks doing minute work, why not a bit on weekends too!


----------



## littlexx26

Whitigir said:


> Those are 14 Awg per wire of pure solid silver for power cables


have you replaced the fuse inside？


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 26, 2022)

littlexx26 said:


> have you replaced the fuse inside？


That I have not, been doing too much in the other more technical stuff such as power supplies , output capacitors, internal wirings , and I have never been much of a fan of the fuses, but since everything effects the TAZ, i may give it a try.  Have you tried any so far ?



grabrom said:


> I guess I'll be giving a go at DIY cable soon.
> I spend full weeks doing minute work, why not a bit on weekends too!


you should start on DIY, if you are capable.  You can get more things done to your desires.


----------



## littlexx26

Whitigir said:


> That I have not, been doing too much in the other more technical stuff such as power supplies , output capacitors, internal wirings , and I have never been much of a fan of the fuses, but since everything effects the TAZ, i may give it a try.  Have you tried any so far?



I don't have Taz but I replaced fuse in lks004. the fuse transformed the dac to another one totally


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 26, 2022)

littlexx26 said:


> I don't have Taz but I replaced fuse in lks004. the fuse transformed the dac to another one totally


Ok, that is good to know.  Thank you, so far VHaudio is the only place that have them hifi fuses.  They don’t even carry much of Furutech fuses either as I always loved Furutech, I would love to try it out

Replacing the fuse In the TAZ isn’t easy though.  Gotta dissemble it to do so 

Fuse size 
T3.15AL 250V

Or 5x20mm


----------



## littlexx26

Whitigir said:


> Ok, that is good to know.  Thank you, so far VHaudio is the only place that have them hifi fuses.  They don’t even carry much of Furutech fuses either as I always loved Furutech, I would love to try it out
> 
> Replacing the fuse In the TAZ isn’t easy though.  Gotta dissemble it to do so
> 
> ...


I use synergistic research orange fuse


----------



## Whitigir

Whitigir said:


> The TA-ZH1ES isn’t really dark and silence in the background.  The haziness can also be observed from upper mid and highs on fine textures.
> 
> So I took sometimes and applied noises absorbent sheets.  This is used by the portable S-Master inside Walkman NW-WM1A/Z as well.  However is not used here in the TAZ.
> 
> ...


Another good technical explanation demonstrated and found by @Sonywalkmanuser here.  It explains a lot more why this step has a lot more improvements , since these radiated noises are kept isolated to each of them IC chips by itself now, and no longer becoming intrusive to other IC at close proximity any more.


Sonywalkmanuser said:


> Will you believe the words of the current Sony head engineer in charge of Sound Quality of the Walkman division, Mr Sato who has said that he can hear differences in microSD cards? Is he a liar?
> 
> The thing is the microSD card has physical electrical connection to Walkman. It is a connected component of the audio circuitry. Can the microSD affect the digital audio signals of the Walkman? Well this depends on how much of the electrical noise generated by the microSD electrical components gets into the Walkman’s high precision highly sensitive digital clocking circuitry and how much it affects its signal timing.
> 
> ...


----------



## davidmthekidd

Wanted to ask, in terms of Bit depth and sample rate, what sets the resolution when connected to a windows PC? lets say if I play a song at 24 Bit 44.1Khz yet windows is set to 24Bit 96Khz as default. Will windows or the taz upscale the sound information to match windows? I am still debating on getting this device as a desktop system, but I would hate to have all audio from my PC to get up sampled to the windows default setting. I am sure it is different on a dap, specially when playing from the sony music player ap, but how would this affect my source files.


----------



## Whitigir

davidmthekidd said:


> Wanted to ask, in terms of Bit depth and sample rate, what sets the resolution when connected to a windows PC? lets say if I play a song at 24 Bit 44.1Khz yet windows is set to 24Bit 96Khz as default. Will windows or the taz upscale the sound information to match windows? I am still debating on getting this device as a desktop system, but I would hate to have all audio from my PC to get up sampled to the windows default setting. I am sure it is different on a dap, specially when playing from the sony music player ap, but how would this affect my source files.


Windows will be the one that resample from original, and then TAZ Will upscale it under TAZ standards toward 384Khz or so


----------



## davidmthekidd

Whitigir said:


> Windows will be the one that resample from original, and then TAZ Will upscale it under TAZ standards toward 384Khz or so


So Taz upscales regardless of resolution? I've heard you mention on other threads that taz internally does all its math at something like 32Bit 384Khz or something similar. I would hate to loose resolution or detail when playing back files from my computer. I am still debating on what to get to get the most out of my MDR-Z1R, specially since the M2 Walkman's are taking forever, I have no rush, but still doing to reading.

Second question, which music app do you guys preffer for playback from your computer, I have mostly flac files and a handful of DSD 64 files.


----------



## Whitigir

davidmthekidd said:


> So Taz upscales regardless of resolution? I've heard you mention on other threads that taz internally does all its math at something like 32Bit 384Khz or something similar. I would hate to loose resolution or detail when playing back files from my computer. I am still debating on what to get to get the most out of my MDR-Z1R, specially since the M2 Walkman's are taking forever, I have no rush, but still doing to reading.
> 
> Second question, which music app do you guys preffer for playback from your computer, I have mostly flac files and a handful of DSD 64 files.


No, TAZ only upscale with DSEEHX turned on, otherwise it stays to the original.  However, you will need to bypass Windows resampler from your PC


----------



## davidmthekidd

Whitigir said:


> No, TAZ only upscale with DSEEHX turned on, otherwise it stays to the original.  However, you will need to bypass Windows resampler from your PC


Is this why people preffer to just hook up a sony dap to the Taz? to bypass the windows re-sampler? can you hook up any kind of dap such as a astell & Kern Kann Alpha to the Taz?


----------



## Lookout57 (Apr 28, 2022)

Whitigir said:


> No, TAZ only upscale with DSEEHX turned on, otherwise it stays to the original.  However, you will need to bypass Windows resampler from your PC


That is incorrect.

I have everything turned off and using the PC USB a 44.1/16 is upsampled to 352.8 kHz / 32 bit or a 96/24 is upsampled to 384 kHz / 32bit. That is also true if DSEE HX is enabled.

If I turn on DSD Remastering it's upsampled to 12.2 MHz / 1 bit.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Lookout57 said:


> That is incorrect. I have everything turned off and using the PC USB a 44.1/16 is being upsampling to 352.8 / 32 bit.


Regardless of the settings within windows? everything is internally re-sampled to 32Bit ?


----------



## Lookout57

davidmthekidd said:


> Regardless of the settings within windows? everything is internally re-sampled to 32Bit ?


Correct, it always upsamples on the PC USB port. I'm pretty sure it's also true on the Walkman port.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 28, 2022)

Lookout57 said:


> That is incorrect.
> 
> I have everything turned off and using the PC USB a 44.1/16 is upsampled to 352.8 kHz / 32 bit or a 96/24 is upsampled to 384 kHz / 32bit. That is also true if DSEE HX is enabled.
> 
> If I turn on DSD Remastering it's upsampled to 12.2 MHz / 1 bit.


That shouldn’t be it, i have not configured TAZ for windows , but I use it with my DAP and it never upscaling without me enabling DSEEHX


----------



## davidmthekidd

Whitigir said:


> That shouldn’t be it, i have not configured TAZ for windows , but I use it with my DAP and it never upscaling without me enabling DSEEHX


Can you play files from those NONE walkman daps from the side USB? or do you need to use the audio AUX when using none sony daps.


----------



## Whitigir

davidmthekidd said:


> Can you play files from those NONE walkman daps from the side USB? or do you need to use the audio AUX when using none sony daps.


Those USB are just USB, you can connect any player to it even as far as iPad , as you have seen me using with different players in pictures


----------



## Lookout57 (Apr 28, 2022)

Do you have Display configured for Format?

Here is my screen:





This is interesting as the song playing is 196/24 according to Detailed song information on the WM1Z. But another song that is also 196/24 is displaying correctly. The incorrect song was downloaded as a WAV and converted to FLAC. The correct song was downloaded as an AIFF and converted to FLAC.

UPDATE: I looked at the incorrect file source again and it's 96/24. I'm going to convert it again but with XiSRC as it looks like XLD mis-converted it.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Lookout57 said:


> Do you have Display configured for Format?
> 
> Here is my screen:
> 
> ...


So the Taz can display the bit depth & sample rate info per song when playing? if hooked up via USB?


----------



## Lookout57

davidmthekidd said:


> So the Taz can display the bit depth & sample rate info per song when playing? if hooked up via USB?


It will display that for any source if it's configured to show format.


----------



## endless402

mine always upsamples as well when DSEE HX is off, as well as DSD Re is off


----------



## kefs

endless402 said:


> mine always upsamples as well when DSEE HX is off, as well as DSD Re is off


Yes mine too


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 29, 2022)

I don’t know what you guys meant.  I tested quickly with my PC and with Asio4All as drivers







If you use windows default drivers which is called TA-ZH1ES as I mentioned, you will be stuck with windows Resampler, which will always resample your files.  The TAZ will only see what the PC put out.  So that is not the TAZ fault

You will need to install Asio4All and use it as a driver to bypass Windows Resampler 

There are 2 Display modes:

Format, it displays the source files and the capability to upscale toward upto PCM 384Khz or DSD256

Normal, it displays the source files as input


----------



## Lookout57

Whitigir said:


> I don’t know what you guys meant.  I tested quickly with my PC and with Asio4All as drivers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is not an issue on macOS which outputs whatever the application outputs.


----------



## Whitigir

Lookout57 said:


> Correct, it always upsamples on the PC USB port. I'm pretty sure it's also true on the Walkman port.


And that was why I mentioned it was windows problems and not TAZ problem


----------



## The1Signature

can anybody share the experience when combining it with the fiio m17?


----------



## Whitigir

All I can say is that the digital transports will play a big role to the signature of TAZ, even the MicroSD or your storage medium.  I have tested it with many other devices that I have, and I can confidently recommend DX300 or the best of it is Cayin N8ii.  Both of these play a respectively 20 hours to 50 hours as a digital transport with amazing performances


----------



## gLer

I think we can also confidently say that Sony designed the Taz to work with the WM1Z/A as digital transports, and optimised the sound/connections accordingly. That would be my starting point.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Whitigir said:


> I don’t know what you guys meant.  I tested quickly with my PC and with Asio4All as drivers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you using the Taz on a mac? also, did sony provide the Asio4All drivers? or that's something that you need to get elsewhere to use with the Taz.


----------



## Whitigir

gLer said:


> I think we can also confidently say that Sony designed the Taz to work with the WM1Z/A as digital transports, and optimised the sound/connections accordingly. That would be my starting point.


I know for the fact that WM1Z/A with a dock, upgraded dock, and usb cables all had a great influences to TAZ each step along the way.  In fact, I always recommended the dock, and the Walkman for TAZ back then.  However, with the new DAP from China, I would say that they are all doing a pretty amazing job at it.  Not sure if M2 will have a newer dock


----------



## Whitigir

davidmthekidd said:


> Are you using the Taz on a mac? also, did sony provide the Asio4All drivers? or that's something that you need to get elsewhere to use with the Taz.


No, I used it as pictured with Windows.  MaC never had problems with Resampler .  The Resampler problems is both Android and Windows

Asio4All is downloaded from it own website.  You can read up on it


----------



## davidmthekidd

Whitigir said:


> No, I used it as pictured with Windows.  MaC never had problems with Resampler .  The Resampler problems is both Android and Windows
> 
> Asio4All is downloaded from it own website.  You can read up on it


Perfect, last question, which app did you use to playback those music files from the pictures above?


----------



## Whitigir

davidmthekidd said:


> Perfect, last question, which app did you use to playback those music files from the pictures above?


That is Quobuz, the easiest way to confirm and take pictures for your confirmations.

I usually use Audacity and Foobar, or Sony music, but mostly Audacity as it has amazing customizable options with beautiful UI.

I configured my PC for my LKS-004 DAC and just stay there.  Hence I only use TAZ with my DAP as transport.  Tinkering with Windows is a horrible experiences


----------



## endless402

I was talking about the format display . The source input rate always matches my source but the zh1es will upsample


----------



## The1Signature

gLer said:


> I think we can also confidently say that Sony designed the Taz to work with the WM1Z/A as digital transports, and optimised the sound/connections accordingly. That would be my starting point.


i will buy soon a wm1zm2 from japan. but at the moment i also enjoy the m17.


----------



## gLer

Only six years late to the party, but hey, let's get this party started! 😎


----------



## Whitigir

gLer said:


> Only six years late to the party, but hey, let's get this party started! 😎
> 
> ​


Welcome to the party, the best USB port to use is the on in the back, aka pc


----------



## gLer

Whitigir said:


> Welcome to the party, the best USB port to use is the on in the back, aka pc


Except I like the convenience of the Walkman port, and that it charges the Walkman at the same time. I'll mainly be using the Walkman as the source.


----------



## Whitigir

gLer said:


> Except I like the convenience of the Walkman port, and that it charges the Walkman at the same time. I'll mainly be using the Walkman as the source.


Use the Docking station for WM OG


----------



## grabrom

gLer said:


> Only six years late to the party, but hey, let's get this party started! 😎
> 
> ​


Welcome my doe.
I'm here too. Slightly late, but oh so satisfied. With the same combo as you, except for the fact I have the cradle for the 1Z.


----------



## gLer

Whitigir said:


> Use the Docking station for WM OG





grabrom said:


> Welcome my doe.
> I'm here too. Slightly late, but oh so satisfied. With the same combo as you, except for the fact I have the cradle for the 1Z.


Does the cradle need to be mains powered?


----------



## nc8000

gLer said:


> Does the cradle need to be mains powered?


Yes


----------



## Hinomotocho

gLer said:


> Only six years late to the party, but hey, let's get this party started! 😎
> 
> ​


Another stunning shot - makes me proud to own them and happy to share that experience with another member.



nc8000 said:


> Yes


I'm currently not using my dock and have it in storage but from memory was able to use it without the power cable attached - is the power only required for charging or is it powering another component (chip) in there? 

@Whitigir where I keep mine it seems to get a lot of dust, does dust easily get inside the unit? Should it be regularly opened to remove the dust?


----------



## nc8000

Hinomotocho said:


> Another stunning shot - makes me proud to own them and happy to share that experience with another member.
> 
> 
> I'm currently not using my dock and have it in storage but from memory was able to use it without the power cable attached - is the power only required for charging or is it powering another component (chip) in there?
> ...


I think power is only required for charging but can't remember since I sold mine 3-4 years ago


----------



## Whitigir

Hinomotocho said:


> Another stunning shot - makes me proud to own them and happy to share that experience with another member.
> 
> 
> I'm currently not using my dock and have it in storage but from memory was able to use it without the power cable attached - is the power only required for charging or is it powering another component (chip) in there?
> ...


Dirt can get in, but not easily.  It is advisable to not be opening it up.  There are risks of electrocutions


----------



## gLer

I think the way the top is perforated means I'll always be keeping it under a dust cloth when not in use.


----------



## nc8000

gLer said:


> I think the way the top is perforated means I'll always be keeping it under a dust cloth when not in use.


I’ve had mine sitting for 6 years next to my bed with no problems


----------



## davidmthekidd

Another one joined the CLUB!!  only 2,065 days late, Workdays should be a lot more fun now!


----------



## grabrom

Damn you guys, my desk is a bit too messy to be able to take a picture and post it. 
I need to do over my cable management :/


----------



## nc8000

Finally got round to installing fw 1.0.3, turned out that I was still on 1.0.0. Will listen tonight to see if I notice any differences


----------



## davidmthekidd

Is there a way to check the firmware version?


----------



## grabrom

If you run the updater from your computer, it will tell you which fw is currently installed on the TA-ZH1ES. And give you the option to update or not.


----------



## Whitigir

davidmthekidd said:


> Is there a way to check the firmware version?


Hold the input button and press enter button 3 times, the TAZ will display it version


----------



## davidmthekidd

Mine says system version v 1.14, I will check to see if there's a newer version.


----------



## Lookout57

davidmthekidd said:


> Mine says system version v 1.14, I will check to see if there's a newer version.


You need to check the USB version which requires you to press the down button. By cycling thru the down button you will see System, USB, DSP, FPGA and Main version.


----------



## nc8000

I get this set of versions, none of which I think are the fw version as I’m fairly sure it showed the same when I was on fw 1.0.0 as it does now I’m on fw 1.0.3


----------



## Whitigir

nc8000 said:


> I get this set of versions, none of which I think are the fw version as I’m fairly sure it showed the same when I was on fw 1.0.0 as it does now I’m on fw 1.0.3


You do see usb version 1.03 right ?


----------



## nc8000

Whitigir said:


> You do see usb version 1.03 right ?


Yes but I don’t think that is the fw version that I just installed as I’m pretty sure it also said 1.03 when I was on fw 1.0.0


----------



## Redcarmoose

Whitigir said:


> Hold the input button and press enter button 3 times, the TAZ will display it version


Cool I did not know that.


----------



## Whitigir

nc8000 said:


> Yes but I don’t think that is the fw version that I just installed as I’m pretty sure it also said 1.03 when I was on fw 1.0.0


USB versions is your USB upgradable versions .  I would love to see someone taking pictures for confirmations


----------



## gLer

Mine says:

CEL 1.14
USB 1.03
DSP 0.09
FPGA 0.32
MAIN 1.11

My Taz was purchased new in 2020 from Amazon UK and I'm the second owner.


----------



## Whitigir

gLer said:


> Mine says:
> 
> CEL 1.14
> USB 1.03
> ...


Wow, a lot of differences, but usb means you are on usb 1.03

May be this is a case for different regions again ? Idk, but tinkering with TAZ firmware may not be possible lol.  At least I don’t know how 🤣


----------



## grabrom

gLer said:


> Mine says:
> 
> CEL 1.14
> USB 1.03
> ...


My Japanese one says exactly the same thing.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Whitigir said:


> Wow, a lot of differences, but usb means you are on usb 1.03
> 
> May be this is a case for different regions again ? Idk, but tinkering with TAZ firmware may not be possible lol.  At least I don’t know how 🤣


When I asked MrWalkman about alternative firmware versions, he stated that due to the way the TA gets on-line updates, that it is simply impossible. Reason being it is a closed loop and the update comes directly from Sony. So the firmware can’t be taken out of the TA and stored anywhere else except the Sony computers and the TA.


----------



## nc8000

I have now done a bit of listening on fw 1.0.3 and if there are any sound differences from fw 1.0.0 they are belowe my auditory memory and since I can’t go back and forth between fw versions there is no way I can investigate further but it still sounds great


----------



## Whitigir

I wonder when Sony will have new firmware for the TAZ lol


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 3, 2022)

nc8000 said:


> I have now done a bit of listening on fw 1.0.3 and if there are any sound differences from fw 1.0.0 they are belowe my auditory memory and since I can’t go back and forth between fw versions there is no way I can investigate further but it still sounds great


Well at least now your TA will not create misidentification of 32bit/384kHz source file as 24bit/384kHz. That’s what Sony says.

Of course Sony never tells of a sound difference!

I only heard an improvement consistently with one IEM, that was too dark on the old firmware. Strangely it was the only IEM I could not use with the TA for being too dark, though with the update it’s fine. Though I thought that the TA was overall slightly better balanced?


----------



## Redcarmoose

That firmware will only come with TA MK2 packaging.


Whitigir said:


> I wonder when Sony will have new firmware for the TAZ lol


----------



## Whitigir

Redcarmoose said:


> Well at least now your TA will not create misidentification of 32bit/384kHz source file as 24bit/384kHz. That’s what Sony says.
> 
> Of course Sony never tells of a sound difference!
> 
> I only heard an improvement consistently with one IEM, that was too dark on the old firmware. Strangely it was the only IEM I could not use with the TA for being too dark, though with the update it’s fine. Though I thought that it was overall slightly better balanced?


Don’t tell me that is ier-Z1R 😂


----------



## Whitigir

Redcarmoose said:


> That firmware will only come with TA MK2 packaging.


You sir....I don’t want to spell out TA-ZH1ES M2 as the name ....


----------



## Redcarmoose

Whitigir said:


> Don’t tell me that is ier-Z1R 😂


Of course not, it was the qdc Anole V3. If you must know.


----------



## nc8000

Redcarmoose said:


> Well at least now your TA will not create misidentification of 32bit/384kHz source file as 24bit/384kHz. That’s what Sony says.
> 
> Of course Sony never tells of a sound difference!
> 
> I only heard an improvement consistently with one IEM, that was too dark on the old firmware. Strangely it was the only IEM I could not use with the TA for being too dark, though with the update it’s fine. Though I thought that the TA was overall slightly better balanced?


I don’t have anything beyond 192/24 so that was never a problem plus about 15 dsd albums


----------



## davidmthekidd

Whitigir said:


> I wonder when Sony will have new firmware for the TAZ lol


I would love DSEE Ultimate on my Taz


----------



## Whitigir (May 3, 2022)

davidmthekidd said:


> I would love DSEE Ultimate on my Taz


DSEEHX ultimate is only upto 192Khz

*DSEEHX from TAZ is more than that,* Sony doesn’t even giving it any names because.  It is superior to all, including DMP Z1

1/ it is done by IC chips made by Analog devices , in DSP Dual chips configurations….*mind you, not by CPU+software*

2/ PCM is upscaling to 384Khz



The next DSEEHX you would want may be 768Khz, but what would Sony name it ? If they do so, how will they sell their portable stuff anymore 😂


----------



## Lookout57 (May 3, 2022)

Whitigir said:


> DSEEHX ultimate is only upto 192Khz
> 
> *DSEEHX from TAZ is more than that,* Sony doesn’t even giving it any names because.  It is superior to all, including DMP Z1
> 
> ...


DSEEHX Nirvana
DSEEHX Mega Ultimate
DSEEHX TOTL
DSEEHX You Can't Top This


----------



## Hinomotocho (May 3, 2022)

I have read the thread a long time ago and can't remember if it was discussed - like the Walkmans do they have different tunings for the different regions? Are we hearing it differently?


----------



## Whitigir

Hinomotocho said:


> I have read the thread a long time ago and can't remember if it was discussed - like the Walkmans do they have different tunings for the different regions? Are we hearing it differently?


They definitely do


----------



## Hinomotocho (May 3, 2022)

Whitigir said:


> They definitely do


Do we know how many different regions/tunings? Would they follow the Walkman ones or are mains AV gear different?
It was never sold in my country so I bought mine secondhand from Australia as it has the same power specs. It was listed as having been originally purchased from Addicted To Audio but came with a European/UK power cable, which is illegal in my country, so I don't know if there was some dishonesty to it's origins or Addicted to Audio was only able to source stock at that time from Sony in Europe?
From memory I did the update to the most recent firmware, if mine was originally a European model would the update be based on those base firmware specs or would downloading automatically detect my location and update it to an Australian/Oceania one?
With those recently shared various firmware versions is it possible to tell any regional differences?
I currently don't have access to my box and manual.


----------



## Whitigir

Hinomotocho said:


> Do we know how many different regions/tunings? Would they follow the Walkman ones or are mains AV gear different?
> It was never sold in my country so I bought mine secondhand from Australia as it has the same power specs. It was listed as having been originally purchased from Addicted To Audio but came with a European/UK power cable, which is illegal in my country, so I don't know if there was some dishonesty to it's origins or Addicted to Audio was only able to source stock at that time from Sony in Europe?
> From memory I did the update to the most recent firmware, if mine was originally a European model would the update be based on those base firmware specs or would downloading automatically detect my location and update it to an Australian/Oceania one?
> With those recently shared various firmware versions is it possible to tell any regional differences?
> I currently don't have access to my box and manual.


You will find those informations in their dedicated thread, and may be pm MrWalkman is a good idea


----------



## Hinomotocho

Whitigir said:


> You will find those informations in their dedicated thread, and may be pm MrWalkman is a good idea


I was talking about the TA-ZH1ES


----------



## Whitigir (May 3, 2022)

Hinomotocho said:


> I was talking about the TA-ZH1ES


Oh, then it was just my assumptions that they may sound different as you can see those pictures above, same UsB firmware versions but System and Main are different.  That could possibly meant that the different regions automatically get updated differently



nc8000 said:


> I get this set of versions, none of which I think are the fw version as I’m fairly sure it showed the same when I was on fw 1.0.0 as it does now I’m on fw 1.0.3





gLer said:


> Mine says:
> 
> CEL 1.14
> USB 1.03
> ...


----------



## hleonz

davidmthekidd said:


> Another one joined the CLUB!!  only 2,065 days late, Workdays should be a lot more fun now!



@davidmthekidd nice set up, what headphone cable is that?


----------



## Whitigir

hleonz said:


> @davidmthekidd nice set up, what headphone cable is that?


Kimber Axios , Copper ?


----------



## davidmthekidd

Whitigir said:


> Kimber Axios , Copper ?


That's the one.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Wanted to ask, do any of you use any sort of power conditioner on the taz? or a different power cable.


----------



## Lookout57

davidmthekidd said:


> Wanted to ask, do any of you use any sort of power conditioner on the taz? or a different power cable.


Yes, I use an Audioquest NRG-X2 power cable and an APC Line-R 1200VA Automatic Voltage Regulator (LE1200).


----------



## Redcarmoose

davidmthekidd said:


> Wanted to ask, do any of you use any sort of power conditioner on the taz? or a different power cable.


I use a stupid expensive power cable but it does more with tube amps. So I not sure I would recommend it with the TA, the Woo Audio 5LE is another story, where it’s worth it.


----------



## Whitigir

Well, power cables and conditioner doesn’t do as much as a real power supply upgrades , after that, you can also get it a new cables and a conditioner, or straight dedicated circuit for itself


----------



## gLer

davidmthekidd said:


> Wanted to ask, do any of you use any sort of power conditioner on the taz? or a different power cable.


I just bought one of these - IsoTek EVO3 Initium. Great 'entry-level' power cable made with three 6N OCC copper. You don't need to spend the earth on power cables, especially if your AC power isn't 'dirty', but I always recommend a solid upgraded power cable over the basic kettle cord, if only to help reject any EMI or minor AC noise at the source. In fact I'm not sure why manufacturers don't include a decent $100 power cable with their $2000 amps in the first place.


----------



## Whitigir (May 4, 2022)

How to benefit from Upscaling and advanced interpolations algorithms ?

Neutron Oversampling 4x so it is under the 8X of Sony one 
+
DSEEHX

😆

Just because I can, and it sounds good

Speaking of overkill ? Is it really ? This amp is 8W per channel 😆


----------



## davidmthekidd

Whitigir said:


> How to benefit from Upscaling and advanced interpolations algorithms ?
> 
> Neutron Oversampling
> +
> ...


so the Taz is the dac and that big ol amp is the amplifier?


----------



## Whitigir

davidmthekidd said:


> so the Taz is the dac and that big ol amp is the amplifier?


Yes sir !! Not exactly old amp, product of 2020


----------



## kefs

This is my PC options used for Qobuz or JRiver Media Centre


----------



## davidmthekidd

Oh man, I just came across the Hi-res player app for windows by sony. wow, it sounds amazing  plz remember to install the Taz Drivers for windows if you plan to use the hi-res app. A++++


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 4, 2022)

Edit


----------



## camera (May 6, 2022)

Guys, do you think that Taz is powerful enough to drive Sennheiser HD 650 which impendance is 300 Ω?  I love my combo of WM1A & HD650 and want to buy a powerful amp to drive the cans.  I have checked with the Sony Store in my city to see if I can bring HD650 to see how they are going but there is no Taz being displayed there, so I need to get the advice here.

ETA:  The cables of the HD650 are not balanced & I prefer low gain.


----------



## Whitigir (May 6, 2022)

It can deafen me on HD800S


----------



## Whitigir (May 6, 2022)

Deleted


----------



## camera

Whitigir said:


> It can deafen me on HD800S





Whitigir said:


> It can deafen me on HD800S


Oh...I was horrified but excited.  Thanks for your reply sir.


----------



## camera

Whitigir said:


> It can deafen me on HD800S





Whitigir said:


> It can deafen me on HD800S


Oh...I was horrified but excited. to learn that.  Thanks for your reply sir.


----------



## The1Signature

gLer said:


> Only six years late to the party, but hey, let's get this party started! 😎
> 
> ​


your pictures look always like straight form the sony music studios


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 8, 2022)

Look what I found!
https://www.linsoul.com/products/ddhifi-xlr44b

4 pin to 4.4mm!




Legend has it, it’s better than 4.4mm output! Only one post by one member who already has the adapter.


----------



## Hinomotocho (May 9, 2022)

I've been keeping mine under my desk with a laptop twin fan cooling pad raised just above it for airflow but want to put it back on top of my desk. As there are shelves around my desk I fear something falling on it so I want to create a protective case, similar to a turntable lid. I know a person who makes acrylic goods so need to come up with a design. Does anyone have a similar form of protection for their amp and could share a picture please?
I was thinking 10mm clear acrylic in a basic flat U-Shape (upside down obviously), the front and back will be open with cut-outs along the sides and if needs be perhaps mount a small PC fan to help airflow. What would be the minimum clearance between the top of the TA to the cover?


----------



## gLer

Hinomotocho said:


> I've been keeping mine under my desk with a laptop twin fan cooling pad raised just above it for airflow but want to put it back on top of my desk. As there are shelves around my desk I fear something falling on it so I want to create a protective case, similar to a turntable lid. I know a person who makes acrylic goods so need to come up with a design. Does anyone have a similar form of protection for their amp and could share a picture please?
> I was thinking 10mm clear acrylic in a basic flat U-Shape (upside down obviously), the front and back will be open with cut-outs along the sides and if needs be perhaps mount a small PC fan to help airflow. What would be the minimum clearance between the top of the TA to the cover?


You probably wouldn't need too much clearance because the structure of the Taz is one big heatsink. Also S-Master doesn't get dangerously hot. Maybe @Whitigir can confirm? I'd be more concerned about dust getting in, which is why I keep a dust cover on mine, even though it's on a coveted shelf next to my bed.


----------



## Whitigir (May 10, 2022)

gLer said:


> You probably wouldn't need too much clearance because the structure of the Taz is one big heatsink. Also S-Master doesn't get dangerously hot. Maybe @Whitigir can confirm? I'd be more concerned about dust getting in, which is why I keep a dust cover on mine, even though it's on a coveted shelf next to my bed.


The TAZ as a whole design doesn’t get too much heat and need cooling, only small parts of it needs cooling and that is the power supply.  The power supply do indeed dissipate heat by using the TAZ chassis.

About dirt getting in, though the TAZ look like it is perforated, is actually is not perforated top.  Only the outline around the top panel is perforated with honeycomb mess, and that is to help air venting, keeping the internal ambient temperature to an optimized design during operation of after 1 hour, and constant.  The reason being is that it is discrete S-Master, so every other discrete components will need to be under a similar ambient temperature in order to be working more harmoniously.

In a short answer, no, you do not need to cover it up with anything, just use a tooth brush and lightly brush it or so to clean it.  If you are really worried about the dirts to sneak in around that outline , after uses, use a large panel or whatever to cover those outline up, and you should be fine, like 2 books or so….don’t cover it during operation.  *But even so, that is not necessary*.  It would take many decades to hopefully accumulated dirt can do damage or hinder the operation of the TAZ, because that outline don’t actually expose the internal that much open and exposed


----------



## davidmthekidd

I cover mine with a kid size t-shirt when not in use.


----------



## Vamp898

I have an air blower i use to clean my camera lenses, i use that to blow off any dust that might cover it. Its fine so far


----------



## camera

Not until visiting Sony store in my city last Friday did I realize that TAZ had been discontinued.  Then I sent a mail to Sony Japan to inquire if a new headphone amp equipped with S-Master would be launched, they replied and said that no info was available if there would be a new headphone coming out.

To me, maybe Sony will launch a new headphone amp but they do not want to disclose it now.


----------



## Whitigir

camera said:


> Not until visiting Sony store in my city last Friday did I realize that TAZ had been discontinued.  Then I sent a mail to Sony Japan to inquire if a new headphone amp equipped with S-Master would be launched, they replied and said that no info was available if there would be a new headphone coming out.
> 
> To me, maybe Sony will launch a new headphone amp but they do not want to disclose it now.


They are on the cycle of a new signature series, logically, the TAZ will get a new irritation.  I just hope that it will be something more interesting rather than. Just a modified/glorified one


----------



## camera (May 10, 2022)

Whitigir said:


> They are on the cycle of a new signature series, logically, the TAZ will get a new irritation.  I just hope that it will be something more interesting rather than. Just a modified/glorified one


In fact, I chatted with one local distributor of Sony yesterday and the guy said that Sony might launch one headphone amp in the coming Dec....

I am struggling if I should buy the current one.


----------



## Whitigir (May 10, 2022)

camera said:


> In fact, I chatted with one local distributor of Sony yesterday and the guy said that Sony might launch one headphone amp in the coming Dec....
> 
> I am struggling if I should buy the current one.


I can’t judge there for your specific circumstances.  For me, personally, I bought TAZ, because I am a huge DIY and love modding.  The TAZ can currently be bought for 40% discount in a used market.  And when a properly upgrades are installed, it isn’t a simple TAZ anymore.  Therefore, IMO, I love seeing TAZ being on the used market at this price, loving the potentials that could be unleashed.  _*And with modifications, we can cater to things that huge company with mass productions that look to be sustainable can not achieve (by economy reasons and not engineering reasons)*_

In all of my experiences, the TAZ when modified, can easily be sitting at $7-8K desktop tier of performances.  That is when I quantifying the performances.  But when looking into other unique aspects, a modified TAZ is uniquely of it own.  Unless the next successor is released and modifications are developed , and that is assuming Sony to be using the same Hybrid design.

I am guessing that the next successor will be also different, by using GAN-FET developed by Sony and so on, opening a new market for all of their other electronic products.  If that happens, it would put the new one on a flagship tier, and it wouldn’t be cheap or priced as TAZ does.  Sony already tested the market with SA-Z1.

There are 2 ways to upgrades TAZ

1/ technically improving it foundations, and that is to improve the signal integrity for output sockets with high-performing cables.  Then upgrading the power supplies.  Improving shielding and radiated noises isolations.  This way, sound signatures stays Original with improvements

2/ improving it with sound performances tuning, which steers it toward a different sound signature than original but with more technicalities in it signatures

Ultimately, doing all of them is the best


----------



## Vamp898

camera said:


> Not until visiting Sony store in my city last Friday did I realize that TAZ had been discontinued.  Then I sent a mail to Sony Japan to inquire if a new headphone amp equipped with S-Master would be launched, they replied and said that no info was available if there would be a new headphone coming out.
> 
> To me, maybe Sony will launch a new headphone amp but they do not want to disclose it now.


This Information is new to me. According to Sony Japan and e-earphone, the TA-ZH1ES not discontinued and in stock


----------



## camera

Whitigir said:


> I can’t judge there for your specific circumstances.  For me, personally, I bought TAZ, because I am a huge DIY and love modding.  The TAZ can currently be bought for 40% discount in a used market.  And when a properly upgrades are installed, it isn’t a simple TAZ anymore.  Therefore, IMO, I love seeing TAZ being on the used market at this price, loving the potentials that could be unleashed.  _*And with modifications, we can cater to things that huge company with mass productions that look to be sustainable can not achieve (by economy reasons and not engineering reasons)*_
> 
> In all of my experiences, the TAZ when modified, can easily be sitting at $7-8K desktop tier of performances.  That is when I quantifying the performances.  But when looking into other unique aspects, a modified TAZ is uniquely of it own.  Unless the next successor is released and modifications are developed , and that is assuming Sony to be using the same Hybrid design.
> 
> ...


Yes, I notice that you like modding your gadget; to me, I may resort to some audio shops as I don't have an engineering background.  

I am living in Asia and TAZ is never a highly sought-after amp in my city, so it is not easy for me to get a used one.  It just happened that I had managed to find a brand new one (only one left) in a store.  

If I don't get this one & have someone purchase it and wait for the successor but it turns out to be of my budget or a mediocre one, I will be at a loss.


----------



## camera

Vamp898 said:


> This Information is new to me. According to Sony Japan and e-earphone, the TA-ZH1ES not discontinued and in stock


Interesting.  You are right; I have just checked out the webpage of Sony Japan & TAZ is still available for order.

However, Sony Australia says that it was discontinued.

https://store.sony.com.au/archived-headphones-amplifiers/TAZH1ES.html


----------



## Whitigir (May 10, 2022)

camera said:


> Yes, I notice that you like modding your gadget; to me, I may resort to some audio shops as I don't have an engineering background.
> 
> I am living in Asia and TAZ is never a highly sought-after amp in my city, so it is not easy for me to get a used one.  It just happened that I had managed to find a brand new one (only one left) in a store.
> 
> If I don't get this one & have someone purchase it and wait for the successor but it turns out to be of my budget or a mediocre one, I will be at a loss.


I see, yeah, the TAZ is separated by regions, and it is due to the main transformers voltages 110/220V.  I understand why TAZ is not well received, preferences aside, when talking about stock performances, it leaves a lot to be desired.  Under your situations, it is best to wait for the new one.  Unless you are very sure that you have listened to TAZ and love it.

Modifying TAZ is a high risk process, hence I don’t post up for DIY, while building cables and smaller DAP is easy, an amplifier can kill you in (mS).  Not to mention that one wrong move can be catastrophe. 

Potentials people who possess the skills would have already known enough to do it themselves from my previous posts 😍


----------



## camera

Whitigir said:


> I see, yeah, the TAZ is separated by regions, and it is due to the main transformers voltages 110/220V.  I understand why TAZ is not well received, preferences aside, when talking about stock performances, it leaves a lot to be desired.  Under your situations, it is best to wait for the new one.  Unless you are very sure that you have listened to TAZ and love it.
> 
> Modifying TAZ is a high risk process, hence I don’t post up for DIY, while building cables and smaller DAP is easy, an amplifier can kill you in (mS).  Not to mention that one wrong move can be catastrophe


Sir, I have not listened to TAZ yet & understand that many of you speak highly of it...so I take a leap of faith.


----------



## Whitigir (May 10, 2022)

camera said:


> Sir, I have not listened to TAZ yet & understand that many of you speak highly of it...so I take a leap of faith.


I don’t know your stands of references, but TAX signatures is very Warmth, slower transients, long decays with that S-Master analog liquidity.  That is the best I can sum up for you .  That is in comparison to LKS-004 and Audio GD R2R-7 as desktop DAC.  Even if you compare to Walkman signatures and DMP-Z1


----------



## camera (May 10, 2022)

Whitigir said:


> I don’t know your stands of references, but TAX signatures is very Warmth, slower transients, long decays with that S-Master analog liquidity.  That is the best I can sum up for you .  That is in comparison to LKS-004 and Audio GD R2R-7 as desktop DAC.  Even if you compare to Walkman signatures and DMP-Z1


Pardon me sir, I forgot to mention that I was not a person in favour of warm sound signature (thanks for letting me know).  Before considering TAZ, I wanted to purchase a dac (Audio-GD) and an amp (Phonitor) and my WM1A would be the source.  The beauty of TAZ, to me, is a compact and a hassle-free setup.


----------



## Whitigir

camera said:


> Pardon me sir, I forgot to mention that I was not a person in favour of warm sound signature (thanks for letting me know).  Before considering TAZ, I wanted to purchase a dac (Audio-GD) and an amp (Phonitor) and my WM1A would be the source.  The beauty of TAZ, to me, is a compact and a hassle-free setup.


Yes, the form and the s-master are the unique features from TAZ.  It is my pleasure


----------



## camera

Whitigir said:


> Yes, the form and the s-master are the unique features from TAZ.  It is my pleasure


How do you say the sound of DMP-Z1?  I have listened it in the Sony Store and am fond its clarity.  Does TAZ sound like Z1? 

One funny thing is that I have already purchased the cradle for my WM1A in anticipation of TAZ; haha.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Vamp898 said:


> This Information is new to me. According to Sony Japan and e-earphone, the TA-ZH1ES not discontinued and in stock


I just bought mine a week ago, it is in stock in the USA, if any announcements are made this year, it might be around IFA, usually late summer, thats when the 2016 Taz was unveiledl; I fully agree with Whitigir, the next gen TAZ will be way more expensive.


----------



## Gamerlingual

camera said:


> How do you say the sound of DMP-Z1?  I have listened it in the Sony Store and am fond its clarity.  Does TAZ sound like Z1?
> 
> One funny thing is that I have already purchased the cradle for my WM1A in anticipation of TAZ; haha.


They’re very close, down to the T. And adding the carbon cable with the Cradle makes the sound that much closer to the DMP-Z1. The DMP can boost power hungry headphones, but both offer wonderful performance


----------



## Vamp898

camera said:


> Interesting.  You are right; I have just checked out the webpage of Sony Japan & TAZ is still available for order.
> 
> However, Sony Australia says that it was discontinued.
> 
> https://store.sony.com.au/archived-headphones-amplifiers/TAZH1ES.html


It's the same for Sony Germany.

Here, you can't buy pretty much anything right now.

Everything is either out of stock or discontinued.

A lot of Japanese companies did give up on non Japanese markets.

Earphones like the ones from Acoustune never got released and even the IER-M7/9 or the XBA-Z5 did not get a release here

Surprisingly, Europe (especially Germany) is the only market, beside Japan, where Sony is focusing on their Smartphones.

It's an confusing mess so I just gave up to understand this and accept it the way it is.

Walkman have the volume cap, so the only thing you can buy here is crap


----------



## davidmthekidd

Not sure if any of you came across this article, a nice read:

https://www.sony.jp/audio/special/interview/ZH1ES/


----------



## Kiats

davidmthekidd said:


> I just bought mine a week ago, it is in stock in the USA, if any announcements are made this year, it might be around IFA, usually late summer, thats when the 2016 Taz was unveiledl; I fully agree with Whitigir, the next gen TAZ will be way more expensive.


Interesting thing happened to me Thursday/Friday: the TA-ZH1ES which was listed as out of stock on the online Sony Store for the longest time (as well as their distributors) suddenly reappeared with a modest 10% discount (which is about as much discount you’d get from their retailers cos of the strict control Sony maintains here). I asked one of the retailers to enquire from Sony but they were told that there was not any stock for wholesale. So, I pulled the trigger and ordered on the Sony store. 

Fast forward to yesterday evening and I had a call from Sony Singapore. The staff wanted to let me know that because it has to be pre-ordered from overseas, it will not be delivered overnight as with their other stock. It will take about a week for the stock to be delivered to me. Which is fine. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Vamp898

Kiats said:


> Interesting thing happened to me Thursday/Friday: the TA-ZH1ES which was listed as out of stock on the online Sony Store for the longest time (as well as their distributors) suddenly reappeared with a modest 10% discount (which is about as much discount you’d get from their retailers cos of the strict control Sony maintains here). I asked one of the retailers to enquire from Sony but they were told that there was not any stock for wholesale. So, I pulled the trigger and ordered on the Sony store.
> 
> Fast forward to yesterday evening and I had a call from Sony Singapore. The staff wanted to let me know that because it has to be pre-ordered from overseas, it will not be delivered overnight as with their other stock. It will take about a week for the stock to be delivered to me. Which is fine. Fingers crossed.


So you're soon diving into the probably best sound quality that exists in this planet (imho of course^^)


----------



## Kiats

Vamp898 said:


> So you're soon diving into the probably best sound quality that exists in this planet (imho of course^^)


Hahah! Thank you! Well, I do enjoy the Sony sound signature. Funny thing was the lady asked me: do you have our other Sony products? I just went and listed what I had… 😆


----------



## davidmthekidd

Do any of you plug the Taz directly to the wall or to a surge protector? I would like to reduce the changes of degrading the sound quality, I heard surge protectors can reduce SQ. Any thoughts?


----------



## Whitigir

davidmthekidd said:


> Do any of you plug the Taz directly to the wall or to a surge protector? I would like to reduce the changes of degrading the sound quality, I heard surge protectors can reduce SQ. Any thoughts?


That is correct, the best is to hook it to a dedicated circuit for itself.  Just ask any electrician and install a new outlet that has it own breaker to your panel.  That is the best way to spend your money


----------



## kefs

Whitigir said:


> That is correct, the best is to hook it to a dedicated circuit for itself.  Just ask any electrician and install a new outlet that has it own breaker to your panel.  That is the best way to spend your money


 Biggest change ever for my system!


----------



## davidmthekidd

Currently I'm considering plugging my taz to the wall using one of these devices, until I can get an electrician to help out; any thoughts? 

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_299MD2/Panamax-MD2.html?tp=568


----------



## Redcarmoose

davidmthekidd said:


> Not sure if any of you came across this article, a nice read:
> 
> https://www.sony.jp/audio/special/interview/ZH1ES/








That’s some cool stuff, thank-you! Not that I understand it or anything! Lol


----------



## Kiats

Redcarmoose said:


> That’s some cool stuff, thank-you! Not that I understand it or anything! Lol


Thanks! I am really looking forward to Sony Singapore sending me one of the last TA-ZH1ES. If it needs a week or so, I suspect it will be stock from Sony Japan itself. I am just glad that I managed to secure one. Fingers crossed until it arrives.


----------



## Redcarmoose (May 16, 2022)

@https://www.head-fi.org/members/kiats.340584/

It’s unique maybe? But one of the coolest pieces I have had the opportunity to obtain. Simply sounds great and offers a lot for what it is. Somehow it plays every IEM and headphones great? Also I use the cradle 1A/1Z combo to send files to it with the AQCarbon USB. It offers a silky smooth window into my music.........never letting me down with every input and output imaginable. I leave DSD Remastering, Phase Linearizer and DSEE HX on all the time.


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## gLer

Kiats said:


> Thanks! I am really looking forward to Sony Singapore sending me one of the last TA-ZH1ES. If it needs a week or so, I suspect it will be stock from Sony Japan itself. I am just glad that I managed to secure one. Fingers crossed until it arrives.


Congrats mate, holding thumbs for you! The only (small) issue I have is not with the Taz, but with the WM1Z, which won't allow me to input LDAC while it's connected to the Taz, so I can't 'stream' to it from my phone. It's a shame, because now I need to hook up my phone to the Taz if I want to use streaming with it. Such a small tweak would have made a huge usability difference for me. The other option is to buy an external streamer and connect it to the Taz, but I'd really prefer not to do that. #simpleisbest


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## Kiats

gLer said:


> Congrats mate, holding thumbs for you! The only (small) issue I have is not with the Taz, but with the WM1Z, which won't allow me to input LDAC while it's connected to the Taz, so I can't 'stream' to it from my phone. It's a shame, because now I need to hook up my phone to the Taz if I want to use streaming with it. Such a small tweak would have made a huge usability difference for me. The other option is to buy an external streamer and connect it to the Taz, but I'd really prefer not to do that. #simpleisbest


Not quite decided how I am going to use it as yet. I suspect one way is to have it as a USB DAC from the MacMini. Because it would be such a shame not to use the Sony DAC.


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## nc8000

Kiats said:


> Not quite decided how I am going to use it as yet. I suspect one way is to have it as a USB DAC from the MacMini. Because it would be such a shame not to use the Sony DAC.


I use mine with an Auralic Aries Mini streamer (with a build in 4TB ssd and integrated Tidal client) connected via usb and an optical connection from my TV


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## Hinomotocho

gLer said:


> Congrats mate, holding thumbs for you! The only (small) issue I have is not with the Taz, but with the WM1Z, which won't allow me to input LDAC while it's connected to the Taz, so I can't 'stream' to it from my phone. It's a shame, because now I need to hook up my phone to the Taz if I want to use streaming with it. Such a small tweak would have made a huge usability difference for me. The other option is to buy an external streamer and connect it to the Taz, but I'd really prefer not to do that. #simpleisbest


I don't stream music so never considered bluetooth but realised I could take advantage of the TA's fine sound qualities for movies. I too prefer a simple all in one set up and was disappointed I couldn't output the streamed LDAC to the TA using the 1Z. I got myself a Fiio BTA30 which was one of lowest priced options and it does a fine job, perhaps a step up might be the iFi version.


----------



## gLer

Hinomotocho said:


> I don't stream music so never considered bluetooth but realised I could take advantage of the TA's fine sound qualities for movies. I too prefer a simple all in one set up and was disappointed I couldn't output the streamed LDAC to the TA using the 1Z. I got myself a Fiio BTA30 which was one of lowest priced options and it does a fine job, perhaps a step up might be the iFi version.


Was thinking of this. How do you have them connected? And how's the quality?


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## Hinomotocho

gLer said:


> Was thinking of this. How do you have them connected? And how's the quality?


To be honest I have been a bit lazy to research the best method - my Nvidia Shield outputs LLDAC so I think I'm not losing anything using optical? It also has coax and line out. 
As I have only used with movies I'm satisfied with the results but couldn't give you a critical opinion of the quality with music and if I could achieve better with the different outputs. When I have some time I can try some music but as I don't stream I might not be able to compare to other methods. The TA does such a good job I think you wouldn't be disappointed. Before I got the BTA30 I tried my BTR5 using the 3.5mm output into the TA and it still sounded decent.


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## Kiats

nc8000 said:


> I use mine with an Auralic Aries Mini streamer (with a build in 4TB ssd and integrated Tidal client) connected via usb and an optical connection from my TV


I used to use the Auralic Aries. And then Tidal stopped working on the Aries. Does it work again? Anyway, the reason I started using the MacMini was as a Roon Core. Which does the same thing: my music in my Melco NAS and tidal. Alternative for me is to connect thru the the Melco NAS which is Roon Ready. But I already use that to stream Roon into the DMP. 🙊 You can tell it is getting a wee bit crowded around here.


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## Kiats (May 16, 2022)

Hinomotocho said:


> To be honest I have been a bit lazy to research the best method - my Nvidia Shield outputs LLDAC so I think I'm not losing anything using optical? It also has coax and line out.
> As I have only used with movies I'm satisfied with the results but couldn't give you a critical opinion of the quality with music and if I could achieve better with the different outputs. When I have some time I can try some music but as I don't stream I might not be able to compare to other methods. The TA does such a good job I think you wouldn't be disappointed. Before I got the BTA30 I tried my BTR5 using the 3.5mm output into the TA and it still sounded decent.


Fascinating! So, the BTA30 works well and its with BT LDAC? How do you connect from the BTA30 into the TAZ? I see there is even a BTA30 Pro now…


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## Vamp898 (May 16, 2022)

Kiats said:


> Fascinating! So, the BTA30 works well and its with BT LDAC? How do you connect from the BTA30 into the TAZ? I see there is even a BTA30 Pro now…


Using COAX.

I connect my TA-ZH1ES using an COAX cable directly to my Bluray Player which i also use for YouTube, Prime Video and so on.

You have to remember that the TA-ZH1ES is from 2016, i think the use case for streaming with LDAC was tiny as Bluetooth Sender/Receiver were very very rare and pretty much exclusively from Sony.


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## nc8000

Kiats said:


> I used to use the Auralic Aries. And then Tidal stopped working on the Aries. Does it work again? Anyway, the reason I started using the MacMini was as a Roon Core. Which does the same thing: my music in my Melco NAS and tidal. Alternative for me is to connect thru the the Melco NAS which is Roon Ready. But I already use that to stream Roon into the DMP. 🙊 You can tell it is getting a wee bit crowded around here.


Yes for some time over 50% of Tidal tracks would not play through the Aries but it seems to work again now, the last week I’ve been playing several Tidal albums with no problems


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## Vamp898

But i would love to Stream to the TA-ZH1ES directly from my Notebook via LDAC, that'd be awesome. Right now i always have to use the USB Cable which is okay too but way less comfortable.

So if there is going to be an successor, i hope it will have LDAC


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## Hinomotocho

Kiats said:


> Fascinating! So, the BTA30 works well and its with BT LDAC? How do you connect from the BTA30 into the TAZ? I see there is even a BTA30 Pro now…


I use the optical connection. My TV only seems to do SBC but my Nvidia Shield does LDAC. I bought the last of the original BTA30 before the Pro version was released as covid and shipping was going to push the prices up, I don't know in real world use what the differences are. 
I didn't want to spend a lot of money so it was a great low price option, my next choice would have been the iFi one but I actually prefer the smaller size of the Fiio.


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## Kiats

nc8000 said:


> Yes for some time over 50% of Tidal tracks would not play through the Aries but it seems to work again now, the last week I’ve been playing several Tidal albums with no problems


Nice! With software unfolding of MQA and all?


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## Kiats

Vamp898 said:


> But i would love to Stream to the TA-ZH1ES directly from my Notebook via LDAC, that'd be awesome. Right now i always have to use the USB Cable which is okay too but way less comfortable.
> 
> So if there is going to be an successor, i hope it will have LDAC


Looking at the DMP, I think that would be likely.


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## nc8000

Kiats said:


> Nice! With software unfolding of MQA and all?


Yes I think so


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## Kiats

Hinomotocho said:


> I use the optical connection. My TV only seems to do SBC but my Nvidia Shield does LDAC. I bought the last of the original BTA30 before the Pro version was released as covid and shipping was going to push the prices up, I don't know in real world use what the differences are.
> I didn't want to spend a lot of money so it was a great low price option, my next choice would have been the iFi one but I actually prefer the smaller size of the Fiio.


Which iFi one is this? The iFi Zen Blue?


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## Gamerlingual

I swear I feel the TA is so underrated and not appreciated enough. Nice to see this thread shows that there's lots of love for it.


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## Kiats

Gamerlingual said:


> I swear I feel the TA is so underrated and not appreciated enough. Nice to see this thread shows that there's lots of love for it.


Indeed… I am a bit late in the game but I am happy to have time now to look at this. And, fingers crossed, get to own a TAZ as well.


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## camera

Kiats said:


> Indeed… I am a bit late in the game but I am happy to have time now to look at this. And, fingers crossed, get to own a TAZ as well.


Congrats, I wish I could get a new TAZ as you did.  I really wanted to fly to Singapore to order one.


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## Kiats

camera said:


> Congrats, I wish I could get a new TAZ as you did.  I really wanted to fly to Singapore to order one.


Thanks! It was very much fortuitous. I am not sure where you are based, but I suspect that Sony is making one last push to run down the stock of the TAZ. Hence, it suddenly reappeared in its online store in Singapore after being out of stock for more than a year. So, you might want to keep your eye out that the local Sony may also offer the TAZ.


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## gLer

Hinomotocho said:


> To be honest I have been a bit lazy to research the best method - my Nvidia Shield outputs LLDAC so I think I'm not losing anything using optical? It also has coax and line out.
> As I have only used with movies I'm satisfied with the results but couldn't give you a critical opinion of the quality with music and if I could achieve better with the different outputs. When I have some time I can try some music but as I don't stream I might not be able to compare to other methods. The TA does such a good job I think you wouldn't be disappointed. Before I got the BTA30 I tried my BTR5 using the 3.5mm output into the TA and it still sounded decent.


Thank, just so we're on the same page, if I connect the BTA30 to the Taz via optical/coax, and send music to the BTA30 via LDAC, it will pass that through 'bitperfect' to the Taz via digital input, and the music will output from the Taz? The BTA30 won't do any digital processing itself? If so, that's a very workable solution...


----------



## camera

Kiats said:


> Thanks! It was very much fortuitous. I am not sure where you are based, but I suspect that Sony is making one last push to run down the stock of the TAZ. Hence, it suddenly reappeared in its online store in Singapore after being out of stock for more than a year. So, you might want to keep your eye out that the local Sony may also offer the TAZ.


I may ask my friend who lives in SG & gets me one and let him keep it till my visit.......but I don't have a plan to travel there in the coming 6-9 months.  It is really a rare opportunity and I don't want to miss the boat.


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## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> Indeed… I am a bit late in the game but I am happy to have time now to look at this. And, fingers crossed, get to own a TAZ as well.


I felt minor regret thinking I should have gotten the DMP-Z1. Then I see a bunch of people sell it off and I’m not active in the thread or the site for a couple of weeks and realized, I didn’t think about getting the DMP. From a practical standpoint, I just use mostly the 1Z/1A with my TA and wireless music is for my iPhone and A55. The damping factor in the TA is legit with the MDR-Z1R


----------



## Kiats

Gamerlingual said:


> I felt minor regret thinking I should have gotten the DMP-Z1. Then I see a bunch of people sell it off and I’m not active in the thread or the site for a couple of weeks and realized, I didn’t think about getting the DMP. From a practical standpoint, I just use mostly the 1Z/1A with my TA and wireless music is for my iPhone and A55. The damping factor in the TA is legit with the MDR-Z1R


That is true. I suspect in part it is due to the 1ZM2. I actually took over the DMP from someone who had it for a while. It is something else that is not easy here to get our hands on. Any regrets? No. Cos it is another special project from the Sony engineers. I use the DMP running the 2 microSD cards, streaming via LDAC as well as USB DAC to my Melco NAS as a Roon end point. 

I have come to the conclusion for house sound, I do very much enjoy the Sony sound signature. The two other main makes I enjoy very much are Luxury & Precision and Shanling. I think with these pre-Android Sony products, at least I will not have to worry about whether they will be left behind by the new android versions. The TAZ and the DMP have their place in my desktop rig.


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## gLer

Kiats said:


> I think with these pre-Android Sony products, at least I will not have to worry about whether they will be left behind by the new android versions.


This is one of the reasons I decided to go all-in on the S-Master Signature Series players. I can now sit back and enjoy them for a good few years without ever having to worry about redundancy creeping in. If someone can figure out how to enable LDAC input during USB out for the WM1Z, it's be a virtually flawless system for my use case and sound preferences (paired with the Z1R twins).


----------



## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> That is true. I suspect in part it is due to the 1ZM2. I actually took over the DMP from someone who had it for a while. It is something else that is not easy here to get our hands on. Any regrets? No. Cos it is another special project from the Sony engineers. I use the DMP running the 2 microSD cards, streaming via LDAC as well as USB DAC to my Melco NAS as a Roon end point.
> 
> I have come to the conclusion for house sound, I do very much enjoy the Sony sound signature. The two other main makes I enjoy very much are Luxury & Precision and Shanling. I think with these pre-Android Sony products, at least I will not have to worry about whether they will be left behind by the new android versions. The TAZ and the DMP have their place in my desktop rig.


Oh do you mean if I have the TA the DMP isn’t quite a necessity?


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## Kiats

Gamerlingual said:


> Oh do you mean if I have the TA the DMP isn’t quite a necessity?


Haha! Not at all! I think each is built for different purposes. I have no intention of letting my DMP go, even when the TAZ comes In. Same reason why I will still have my original 1A and 1Z DAPs.


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## Kiats

gLer said:


> This is one of the reasons I decided to go all-in on the S-Master Signature Series players. I can now sit back and enjoy them for a good few years without ever having to worry about redundancy creeping in. If someone can figure out how to enable LDAC input during USB out for the WM1Z, it's be a virtually flawless system for my use case and sound preferences (paired with the Z1R twins).


Indeed. In the meantime i shall explore the FiiO BTA30 Pro and the iFi Blue v2.


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## Vamp898

Gamerlingual said:


> Oh do you mean if I have the TA the DMP isn’t quite a necessity?


This is a question you have to ask your wallet.


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## nc8000

Vamp898 said:


> This is a question you have to ask your wallet.


My wallet has answered resoundingly that no way is the DMP needed. Now my heart and curiosity has a different answer but that will not happen


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## Gamerlingual

Vamp898 said:


> This is a question you have to ask your wallet.


Money isn’t an issue. It’s the practicality aspect of it


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## Kiats

Gamerlingual said:


> Money isn’t an issue. It’s the practicality aspect of it


I think it's also a question of whether you will get sufficiently different a sound signature for this. As well as whether it suits your use case.


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## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> I think it's also a question of whether you will get sufficiently different a sound signature for this. As well as whether it suits your use case.


I hardly heard any differences and this was after over 20 hours of testing. And all I could tell, it makes headphones louder. That’s all


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## davidmthekidd (May 16, 2022)

gLer said:


> This is one of the reasons I decided to go all-in on the S-Master Signature Series players. I can now sit back and enjoy them for a good few years without ever having to worry about redundancy creeping in. If someone can figure out how to enable LDAC input during USB out for the WM1Z, it's be a virtually flawless system for my use case and sound preferences (paired with the Z1R twins).


Don't sleep on APTX-HD, it is very good sounding  Plus you can find countless APTX-HD transmitters online.


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## covgyw

I am looking to upgrade my DAC/AMP (currently running Centrance Dacmini CX) setup and I'm looking at the TA-ZH1ES as a prospect. My headphones are pretty drivable so I am not too worried on the AMP side, so I am focusing on convenience and build quality of the DAC/Amp. I like how the tazzy have multiple outputs and you have to manually choose your output. Build quality of Sony is superb, especially their high end lines so I am not too worried about it. A few questions I have:
1. Any other DAC/AMP combo I with multiple outputs like the Tazzy that I should be looking into (~$1500 price range +/- 500)? Any new development/tech since the Sony came out?
2. Have any one uses Iphone / Apple music lossless as an input? Does it run correctly? The lossless apple music was just released last year. I dont know if the Tazzy is too old?
3. Does it play nice with Mac? Sony was infamous before Apple took over about their walled garden approach, not sure if they are still doing it. Does it have any issues with Intel or M1 Macs?

Thanks!


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## Tsiklon

covgyw said:


> I am looking to upgrade my DAC/AMP (currently running Centrance Dacmini CX) setup and I'm looking at the TA-ZH1ES as a prospect. My headphones are pretty drivable so I am not too worried on the AMP side, so I am focusing on convenience and build quality of the DAC/Amp. I like how the tazzy have multiple outputs and you have to manually choose your output. Build quality of Sony is superb, especially their high end lines so I am not too worried about it. A few questions I have:
> 1. Any other DAC/AMP combo I with multiple outputs like the Tazzy that I should be looking into (~$1500 price range +/- 500)? Any new development/tech since the Sony came out?
> 2. Have any one uses Iphone / Apple music lossless as an input? Does it run correctly? The lossless apple music was just released last year. I dont know if the Tazzy is too old?
> 3. Does it play nice with Mac? Sony was infamous before Apple took over about their walled garden approach, not sure if they are still doing it. Does it have any issues with Intel or M1 Macs?
> ...



I can’t answer question 1, but I can answer the other two - you can plug an iPhone or an iPad directly into the TAZ and it will work properly with Apple Music Hi-Rez Lossless. 

I also use a Mac Studio, and it works without issue, but you have to manually set the sample rate globally in MacOS if you want to use the high res features in music.app.


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## Hinomotocho (May 16, 2022)

Kiats said:


> Which iFi one is this? The iFi Zen Blue?


I just checked, yes the Zen Blue.
In a year I had given myself the green light on going for the Signature Series (secondhand) MDR-Z1R, IER-Z1R and TA so was looking for the best low priced option which was the BTA30, but possibly the Blue is rated above it? (Also the BTA30 is quite small which works well for my limited space).



gLer said:


> Thank, just so we're on the same page, if I connect the BTA30 to the Taz via optical/coax, and send music to the BTA30 via LDAC, it will pass that through 'bitperfect' to the Taz via digital input, and the music will output from the Taz? The BTA30 won't do any digital processing itself? If so, that's a very workable solution...


I recommend that you ask on the thread to confirm this. As my use is only with heavily compressed Youtube, Netflix and movie rips I wasn't going to stress too much about quality.
The BTA30 has an upscaling feature available through the app so I might assume it does bitperfect?
This was a while ago so I can't remember exactly, and possibly I asked several months ago on this thread, when I was watching an uncompressed rip of my blu-ray concert discs the TA was showing a different bitrate, also with a couple of hi-res test tracks. I could never work out if it was to do with the android of my Nvidia Shield interfering with the output signal, the BTA30 or the TA just misinterpreting the file data - I don't think it was the BTA.


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## Woodlands (May 16, 2022)

covgyw said:


> 2. Have any one uses Iphone / Apple music lossless as an input? Does it run correctly? The lossless apple music was just released last year. I dont know if the Tazzy is too old?
> 3. Does it play nice with Mac? Sony was infamous before Apple took over about their walled garden approach, not sure if they are still doing it. Does it have any issues with Intel or M1 Macs?


2.  All my music is ripped in ALAC, Apple’s lossless equivalent to FLAC, and the TAZ plays it fine. If Apple Music streams lossless in ALAC then you’re good. According to an Apple support page this might be the case “In addition to AAC, the entire Apple Music catalog is now also encoded using ALAC in resolutions ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to 24-bit/192 kHz.”

3. My TAZ is connected via the USB input to a 2015 MacBook Pro.  Again, works flawlessly. I just make sure to restart the Mac with the TAZ connected if I disconnected them for some reason.


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## Kiats

Woodlands said:


> 2.  All my music is ripped in ALAC, Apple’s lossless equivalent to FLAC, and the TAZ plays it fine. If Apple Music streams lossless in ALAC then you’re good. According to an Apple support page this might be the case “In addition to AAC, the entire Apple Music catalog is now also encoded using ALAC in resolutions ranging from 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD Quality) up to 24-bit/192 kHz.”
> 
> 3. My TAZ is connected via the USB input to a 2015 MacBook Pro.  Again, works flawlessly. I just make sure to restart the Mac with the TAZ connected if I disconnected them for some reason.


Thanks for the insights @Woodlands . For (2), then you'd be using the USB DAC input for the TAZ then? Good to know. Then I can use my MacMini (which I use as a Roon core) to be connected to the TAZ.


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## Woodlands

Kiats said:


> For (2), then you'd be using the USB DAC input for the TAZ then?


You bet. I also use the optical input from a CD player when I feel like playing physical media but I was delighted with the ease of use with the Mac and the USB input.


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## covgyw

Thanks all!


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## Vamp898 (May 17, 2022)

Gamerlingual said:


> I felt minor regret thinking I should have gotten the DMP-Z1. Then I see a bunch of people sell it off and I’m not active in the thread or the site for a couple of weeks and realized, I didn’t think about getting the DMP. From a practical standpoint, I just use mostly the 1Z/1A with my TA and wireless music is for my iPhone and A55. The damping factor in the TA is legit with the MDR-Z1R


I really like the DMP-Z1 (even though some people here think different), but I tested it again today (mostly with the IER-M9)

And I still stand behind my opinion, that the TA-ZH1ES sounds better.

There is one song called プラトー from サカナクション



And the drums just sound so much more realistic and authentic on the Tazzy. And the bass after the first refrain just sounds too soft on the DMP-Z1

That is one song where you can really hear and that shows that Sony tried everything to make the DMP-Z1 sound as fast as possible, but the TA-ZH1ES just beats it


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## davidmthekidd (May 17, 2022)

Vamp898 said:


> I really like the DMP-Z1 (even though some people here think different), but I tested it again today (mostly with the IER-M9)
> 
> And I still stand behind my opinion, that the TA-ZH1ES sounds better.
> 
> ...



The question is, how can sony improve from Taz? Computational Audio (Ai DSEE)?? Anyways, I connected mine straight to the wall and man, I was missing almost all my low end, I had it connect it to a surge protector before, I cant go back regardless of safety lol.


----------



## Vamp898

davidmthekidd said:


> The question is, how can sony improve from Taz? Computational Audio (Ai DSEE)?? Anyways, I connected mine straight to the wall and man, I was missing almost all my low end, I had it connect it to a surge protector before, I cant go back regardless of safety lol.


They can only improve the output power and maybe fine tune the capacitors.

But don't fix what's not broken. I assume there won't be an successor to the TA-ZH1ES in the near future and mine still works and sounds perfect, so I don't need one


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## gLer

davidmthekidd said:


> The question is, how can sony improve from Taz? Computational Audio (Ai DSEE)?? Anyways, I connected mine straight to the wall and man, I was missing almost all my low end, I had it connect it to a surge protector before, I cant go back regardless of safety lol.


Interesting, are you saying a surge protector dampened the sound? Which protector were you using?


----------



## davidmthekidd

gLer said:


> Interesting, are you saying a surge protector dampened the sound? Which protector were you using?


Yes, it killed the dynamics, less bass (life), I had my taz connected to this:

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/prod...-charging-ports-5V-2-4A-in-total-120V/P-P11U2

What I experienced was something along these lines:


----------



## askeladden

This thread reminds me of a video i saw a while back where an elderly japanese gentleman had his own transformator connected to the grid in order to get the purest sound.. to some this quest for perfection can become an obsession (for the disco freaks).


----------



## davidmthekidd

askeladden said:


> This thread reminds me of a video i saw a while back where an elderly japanese gentleman had his own transformator connected to the grid in order to get the purest sound.. to some this quest for perfection can become an obsession (for the disco freaks).


----------



## endless402

davidmthekidd said:


> The question is, how can sony improve from Taz? Computational Audio (Ai DSEE)?? Anyways, I connected mine straight to the wall and man, I was missing almost all my low end, I had it connect it to a surge protector before, I cant go back regardless of safety lol.


yup better from the wall! unless you have a fancy power distributer. wait till you change the wall outlet!


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## Kiats

The Sony online store updated me today: they've managed to source and secure, within the Sony network, a unit of the TAZ. ETA 3rd week of June.


----------



## Tsiklon

davidmthekidd said:


> The question is, how can sony improve from Taz? Computational Audio (Ai DSEE)?? Anyways, I connected mine straight to the wall and man, I was missing almost all my low end, I had it connect it to a surge protector before, I cant go back regardless of safety lol.


Improved output power would be nice, and replacing the microUSB and USB-B ports with USB-C ports would be fabulous


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## gLer

Tsiklon said:


> Improved output power would be nice, and replacing the microUSB and USB-B ports with USB-C ports would be fabulous


I'll also add: LDAC Bluetooth receiver, Ethernet port (for lossless streaming), and galvanic isolation on the power supply. These are smallish tweaks, but they add up to a more modern, robust device. Whether or not Sony will see fit to release an updated Taz is anyone's guess, however. And if they don't, so be it. The original should last a lifetime.


----------



## camera

Kiats said:


> The Sony online store updated me today: they've managed to source and secure, within the Sony network, a unit of the TAZ. ETA 3rd week of June.


Lucky you.
Few mins ago, I wanted to place an order but it was out of stock.


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## Kiats

camera said:


> Lucky you.
> Few mins ago, I wanted to place an order but it was out of stock.


Sorry to hear that man. It took them a week to track down the remaining stock. My suspicion is when it went back online, there was perhaps some demand. It was still on the last time I had looked.


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## Whitigir

They can started improving the TAZ the way I did

1/ First and foremost, improving the Power regulators, with lower noises and faster transient respond

2/ improving the noises isolations from the switching MOSFET and FET

3/ improving solder used

4/ improving internal wires

5/ improving the output capacitors

But seeing as Walkman M2 is a modified Walkman, I sincerely hope that the TAZ won’t be another modified device but branding as an M2


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## kefs

Whitigir said:


> They can started improving the TAZ the way I did
> 
> 1/ First and foremost, improving the Power regulators, with lower noises and faster transient respond
> 
> ...


Hey i will send mine for an upgrade😉


Whitigir said:


> But seeing as Walkman M2 is a modified Walkman, I sincerely hope that the TAZ won’t be another modified device but branding as an M2


----------



## camera

Whitigir said:


> They can started improving the TAZ the way I did
> 
> 1/ First and foremost, improving the Power regulators, with lower noises and faster transient respond
> 
> ...


I also hope that TAZ 2 is coming soon.


----------



## gLer

I was taking some pics of my new Kimber Axios CU cable this afternoon and Taz got involved, so just had to share...


----------



## davidmthekidd

gLer said:


> I was taking some pics of my new Kimber Axios CU cable this afternoon and Taz got involved, so just had to share...
> 
> ​


Gorgeous, A++


----------



## Hinomotocho

Whitigir said:


> They can started improving the TAZ the way I did
> 
> 1/ First and foremost, improving the Power regulators, with lower noises and faster transient respond
> 
> ...


Nayparm for Walkman modding, Whitigir for TA-ZH1ES modding? There could be a market there.


----------



## The1Signature

having the mdr-z1r, wm1a and wm1z, i might wanted to buy the taz from a friend of mine.



Redcarmoose said:


> If your talking about not using a PC with the TA, yes, that is a huge difference, rotation in of a Walkman as a file server. That was the whole benefit for me was going to the Cradle and USB AQCarbon.


i could use the digital walkman cable which you plug in from the side of the taz.

however, since i like to play around with qobuz and tidal on my lenovo laptop, i wanted to connect it directly with it and use the windows 10 qobuz or tidal app



WiseRooster said:


> I use Nordost Frey2 USB cable


but i didn't want to spend 500+ euros for an usb cable - at least right now 

would be an AQ cinnamon usb-a/c to usb-b cable ok, any experience?

@Redcarmoose 
will i do lose a lot of SQ due to skipping the "rotation in of a walkman as a file server"?


----------



## Whitigir

AQ cables is completely just fine and an upgrade to many others


----------



## Redcarmoose

The1Signature said:


> having the mdr-z1r, wm1a and wm1z, i might wanted to buy the taz from a friend of mine.
> 
> 
> i could use the digital walkman cable which you plug in from the side of the taz.
> ...


Play around with sources and you may find a slight difference in that using the Walkmans brings a quietness over the PC.


----------



## The1Signature

kefs said:


> What does anyone use to stop dust entering the mesh on the top ?
> I will go crazy if i get any in there (and no i'm not ocd)😁


there are companies which doe dust covers only. for scanners, printers, screens, and any individual size you tell them. we have a premium dust covers company in germany where you pay around 10 euro for the size of a printer, scanner, or the taz and you get premium quality, that fits perfectly.


----------



## Lookout57

The1Signature said:


> having the mdr-z1r, wm1a and wm1z, i might wanted to buy the taz from a friend of mine.
> 
> 
> i could use the digital walkman cable which you plug in from the side of the taz.
> ...


I use the AQ Carbon USB cable from the Sony dock to the TAZ.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Lookout57 said:


> I use the AQ Carbon USB cable from the Sony dock to the TAZ.


Ditto.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Redcarmoose said:


> Ditto.


x3. Per your wisdom


----------



## Kiats

The1Signature said:


> having the mdr-z1r, wm1a and wm1z, i might wanted to buy the taz from a friend of mine.
> 
> 
> i could use the digital walkman cable which you plug in from the side of the taz.
> ...


Have you had a look at the iFi Stream? I was looking at it as an option and it looked interesting.


----------



## tombrisbane

Kiats said:


> Have you had a look at the iFi Stream?


I use one with my Taz, highly recommend it!  So so convenient, run everything from my phone now.


----------



## The1Signature (May 24, 2022)

thank you my friends,

@Kiats i didn't know about the streamer, i like the idea and great reviews as always for ifi products.

i bought the audioquest carbon usb-c to usb-c cable. for my fiio m17 and maybe due to the fact that i wanted to sell my wm1z and buy the m2 soon.

for the current wm1z combo, i may buy the audioquest usb-c to usb-a adapter or simply another carbon cable.



tombrisbane said:


> I use one with my Taz, highly recommend it! So so convenient, run everything from my phone now.


i put that on my list, already. but having the powerful fiio m17 with streaming options, dedicated DC power, 2x usb c and 1x coaxial... makes the ifi stream - at least in my case - a little bit obsolete.


----------



## iFi audio

tombrisbane said:


> I use one with my Taz, highly recommend it! So so convenient, run everything from my phone now.


Thanks, that's awesome to hear that you like it


----------



## The1Signature

gLer said:


> You probably wouldn't need too much clearance because the structure of the Taz is one big heatsink. Also S-Master doesn't get dangerously hot. Maybe @Whitigir can confirm? I'd be more concerned about dust getting in, which is why I keep a dust cover on mine, even though it's on a coveted shelf next to my bed.


do you have a link of that dust cover?


----------



## gLer

The1Signature said:


> do you have a link of that dust cover?


It's literally just a sheet of thin porous cloth a bit larger than the Taz itself.


----------



## The1Signature

gLer said:


> It's literally just a sheet of thin porous cloth a bit larger than the Taz itself.


OK, i will buy a custom made one for around 10 euros by rotri - high quality, perfect fit, and custom cut-outs possible as well.


----------



## WiseRooster

The1Signature said:


> OK, i will buy a custom made one for around 10 euros by rotri - high quality, perfect fit, and custom cut-outs possible as well.


Or maybe this one for 16 Euros and it will fit in perfection for the sides and the front... I think I will do this.
Thx for the link 👌

Btw til now I have a towel as protection 😂


----------



## kefs

WiseRooster said:


> Or maybe this one for 16 Euros and it will fit in perfection for the sides and the front... I think I will do this.
> Thx for the link 👌
> 
> Btw til now I have a towel as protection 😂


Yes, i use a microfibre cloth when not in use


----------



## Kiats

iFi audio said:


> Thanks, that's awesome to hear that you like it


@iFi audio quick question: how does it work with QQ Music? That would make it of great interest to me


----------



## kefs

Listening to my iems via balanced 4.4mm last night............WOW. Never heard them sound so good!


----------



## The1Signature

kefs said:


> Listening to my iems via balanced 4.4mm last night............WOW. Never heard them sound so good!


which IEMs do you have?


----------



## Hinomotocho

kefs said:


> Listening to my iems via balanced 4.4mm last night............WOW. Never heard them sound so good!


I bought my WM1Z in December and have only been listening to music with it since to settle in with the 1Z sound, a couple of nights ago I listened to the TA with my IER-Z1R for the first time in 6 months and felt the same thing.


----------



## kefs

The1Signature said:


> which IEMs do you have?


Audiofly AF1120. Spinfit tips, Dunu Blanche silver cable with swappable connectors for 3.5se, 2.5mm bal and 4.4mm pentacon. Very convenient and sounds great


----------



## The1Signature

kefs said:


> Audiofly AF1120. Spinfit tips, Dunu Blanche silver cable with swappable connectors for 3.5se, 2.5mm bal and 4.4mm pentacon. Very convenient and sounds great


sounds versatile, nice.


----------



## nc8000

kefs said:


> Audiofly AF1120. Spinfit tips, Dunu Blanche silver cable with swappable connectors for 3.5se, 2.5mm bal and 4.4mm pentacon. Very convenient and sounds great


Yes I love the Blanche and the swappable connectors, have one both on my Z1R and JH13


----------



## The1Signature

nc8000 said:


> Yes I love the Blanche and the swappable connectors, have one both on my Z1R and JH13


i thought that balanced cables have 2x more power = 2x more cable wires inside. so you cannot just change the connectors. i will check the dunu later.


----------



## nc8000 (May 26, 2022)

The1Signature said:


> i thought that balanced cables have 2x more power = 2x more cable wires inside. so you cannot just change the connectors. i will check the dunu later.


A balanced headphone can be used from both balanced and unbalanced sources with the correct connector. An unbalanced phone can not be used from a balanced source.

Unbalanced headphones have 3 wires R, L and common ground.

Balanced headphones have 4 wires L+, R+, R- and L- and you can then via a connector join R- and L- together and use that as common ground.

On the other hand if you via a connector join the common ground wire from a single ended phone to R- and L- on a balanced source you are likely to short out the source.

The 4.4 plug actually supports 5 wires so the 4 balanced wires plus a ground so depending on how the 4.4 output of the source is wired it could support both balanced and single ended. The 4.4 output on Sony daps does not have the ground connected.

All headphones have 2 wires to each driver but on single ended phones one wire from each side is joined together, typically in the Y-join or inside one cup if there is only one cable entry, but all 4 wires might continue all the way to the terminating trs plug.

There are 2 reasons for going balanced, one is that you get more power by doubling the voltage swing, the other is that you eliminate the possibillity of cross talk and noice that is inherrent in the common ground so typically balanced will have a darker background. 

Some phones benefit a lot from going balanced while for others it makes little if any difference. So you can’t say that balanced will always be better than single ended


----------



## kefs




----------



## Pillsburydough

Some advice please guys - I'm a newbie to the TA-ZH1ES having just recently bought one. I've been listening to it with the WM1Z (Walkman input) and IER-Z1Rs. Sounds sublime  .
My questions that I would appreciate peoples advice:
1) How would I get the best out of the TAZ using my PC and Tidal plus? I've got the TAZ driver on my PC, and on the Tidal advanced settings, I've allowed for 'force volume' and 'use exclusive mode'. Are these the best settings or are there any other ones I should be using? 
2) How much of a difference would a usb cable such as the Audioquest carbon make over the stock usb cable that comes with the unit?


----------



## Whitigir

The TAZ has Ground connected inside the Balanced ports including 4.4mm!!  Yes, you can use a properly shielded 4.4mm.  Even-though the MDR and IER Z1R have no shield or ground connected from stock cables.

Balanced output from TAZ is not simply more power.  The TAZ is dedicatedly a Balanced system.  That means you extract the utmost performances of the TAZ by using Balanced connections.  From the moment the Digital signals are decoded and converted to the Amplifications stages of the TAZ, it is all done in 4 dedicated signal lines and a Ground isolation that is connected toward the Ground pin of all Balanced ports.

Matter of Fact, due to this native balanced build, the Single Ended ports are using Transformer output coupled stages.  This is a stage where technically the phases of the balanced output got merged into 2 active lines and ground connections.  Therefore, the output transformers will be carrying the current potentials of balanced output, but total voltage will be reduced.  

Some gears, iems or phones, love higher current feeding it VS higher voltages.  With the TAZ, you have the options.  If your connected gears love the current delivery, then use it with SE connections.  If it loves balanced, then using Balanced will extract the most performances and purity of the design.

Judge it with your gears and ears !!


----------



## Nicolas Yance

Whitigir said:


> The TAZ has Ground connected inside the Balanced ports including 4.4mm!!  Yes, you can use a properly shielded 4.4mm.  Even-though the MDR and IER Z1R have no shield or ground connected from stock cables.
> 
> Balanced output from TAZ is not simply more power.  The TAZ is dedicatedly a Balanced system.  That means you extract the utmost performances of the TAZ by using Balanced connections.  From the moment the Digital signals are decoded and converted to the Amplifications stages of the TAZ, it is all done in 4 dedicated signal lines and a Ground isolation that is connected toward the Ground pin of all Balanced ports.
> 
> ...


I mainly use my TAZ as a dac with the pre out output and I always wonder if the DSEE HX, DC Phase Linearizer, etc, are working.


----------



## Whitigir (May 28, 2022)

Nicolas Yance said:


> I mainly use my TAZ as a dac with the pre out output and I always wonder if the DSEE HX, DC Phase Linearizer, etc, are working.


I posted about this previously.

In shorts, all enhancements and effects will work.

The best way to use TAZ is as you are using, a DAC that uses Line Out from RCA in the back.  I use this mode often as well because I feed it toward my tube amplifier.  This is a wet dream set up, the liquidity of S-Master, the lush and linearity of Tube amplifiers together with the lowest floor noises from the implementations of *TAZ Active noise cancelling by Analog OpAmps 

This is also why I upgraded my Internal interconnect wires into Pure solid silver with a proper ground shield as well *(_stock is a cheap OFC wires).  You can see the picture, _the yellow wires is the upgraded one.  The stock one is similar to the black cables next to it, which is the USB micro cables (Walkman ports), a generic cables


----------



## The1Signature (May 28, 2022)

Pillsburydough said:


> Some advice please guys - I'm a newbie to the TA-ZH1ES having just recently bought one. I've been listening to it with the WM1Z (Walkman input) and IER-Z1Rs. Sounds sublime.
> My questions that I would appreciate peoples advice:
> 1) How would I get the best out of the TAZ using my PC and Tidal plus? I've got the TAZ driver on my PC, and on the Tidal advanced settings, I've allowed for 'force volume' and 'use exclusive mode'. Are these the best settings or are there any other ones I should be using?
> 2) How much of a difference would a usb cable such as the Audioquest carbon make over the stock usb cable that comes with the unit?


i finally got my taz, too.

i would have the same questions like you as well.

just to let you know: the right usb-c host port of the fiio m17 works very well with the sony taz using the aq carbon usb-c / usb-b cable.

can i clean the outside of the taz simply with a disinfection wipe?


----------



## Whitigir

The1Signature said:


> i finally got my taz, too.
> 
> i would have the same questions like you as well.
> 
> ...


I don’t see any harm in doing that as it is aluminum chassis


----------



## The1Signature

Pillsburydough said:


> Some advice please guys - I'm a newbie to the TA-ZH1ES having just recently bought one. I've been listening to it with the WM1Z (Walkman input) and IER-Z1Rs. Sounds sublime  .
> My questions that I would appreciate peoples advice:
> 1) How would I get the best out of the TAZ using my PC and Tidal plus? I've got the TAZ driver on my PC, and on the Tidal advanced settings, I've allowed for 'force volume' and 'use exclusive mode'. Are these the best settings or are there any other ones I should be using?
> 2) How much of a difference would a usb cable such as the Audioquest carbon make over the stock usb cable that comes with the unit?


don't forget the bitperfect / passthrough mqa in the tidal advanced settings.


----------



## endless402

Pillsburydough said:


> Some advice please guys - I'm a newbie to the TA-ZH1ES having just recently bought one. I've been listening to it with the WM1Z (Walkman input) and IER-Z1Rs. Sounds sublime  .
> My questions that I would appreciate peoples advice:
> 1) How would I get the best out of the TAZ using my PC and Tidal plus? I've got the TAZ driver on my PC, and on the Tidal advanced settings, I've allowed for 'force volume' and 'use exclusive mode'. Are these the best settings or are there any other ones I should be using?
> 2) How much of a difference would a usb cable such as the Audioquest carbon make over the stock usb cable that comes with the unit?


1) settings are correct. I do mqa passthtough since I dont like the sound of the first software unfold. 
2) usb cables are all different. You don’t know what sound you like till you try. I’d skip the aq carbon. It’s quite underwhelming. The only aq usb worth trying is the diamond.


----------



## The1Signature

endless402 said:


> 1) settings are correct. I do mqa passthtough since I dont like the sound of the first software unfold.
> 2) usb cables are all different. You don’t know what sound you like till you try. I’d skip the aq carbon. It’s quite underwhelming. The only aq usb worth trying is the diamond.


so if you would skip the carbon - which is highly recommended in any sub-forum here - which one would you recommend other than the diamond?


----------



## Whitigir

The1Signature said:


> so if you would skip the carbon - which is highly recommended in any sub-forum here - which one would you recommend other than the diamond?


IMO and from experiences, USB cables do hugely influencing the sound performances, as much as headphones cables do, depends on the DAC, but it is true for TAZ.

The best USB ports to use is the one in the back (Pc ports)

The best USB cables is DIY 😂


----------



## endless402 (May 29, 2022)

The1Signature said:


> so if you would skip the carbon - which is highly recommended in any sub-forum here - which one would you recommend other than the diamond?



Really depends on price point.

For me, AQ only gets good when you get to their full silver cables, assuming it’s the sound signature you’re looking for. I find their copper lineup underwhelming. I think people like carbon because of the price point more than anything.

From experience, I’m happy with Sablon, curious, siltech, vertere, tellurium Q. At the price of aq carbon, I find the curious cable more musical. 

 Problem is that you don’t know what you prefer till you try, so I’ve had to buy many cables at the same time to test.


----------



## gLer

Hi guys, has anyone tried using Chromecast Audio (the discontinued version) via optical to stream to the Taz?


----------



## Whitigir

The TAZ has DC-Phase linearizer feature as mentioned, via a relay that will route the signals toward bypass capacitors before going toward either preamplifier or phones out.

I found out that with phone out and Dc phase engaged, I don’t have as good sub bass extensions and vertical plane as if I was to turn it off.  The DC phase feature is actually more enjoyable with preamp out


----------



## endless402

gLer said:


> Hi guys, has anyone tried using Chromecast Audio (the discontinued version) via optical to stream to the Taz?



chromecast audio optical out is jittery...so prob not the best for any critical listening


----------



## gLer

endless402 said:


> chromecast audio optical out is jittery...so prob not the best for any critical listening


Yeah I've read conflicting reports about that. Most say the jitter is beyond audible range. I'd love to hear some first hand experience from someone who's tried it. Can only be better than BT I'd think?


----------



## Whitigir

gLer said:


> Yeah I've read conflicting reports about that. Most say the jitter is beyond audible range. I'd love to hear some first hand experience from someone who's tried it. Can only be better than BT I'd think?


Technically, jitters, noises, switching noises, are all beyond human hearing ranges.  However, you are not listening to the source that creates jitters, or switching noises alone

FE, power supply switching noises, there are a huge differences between a switching power supply (PSU) Vs a Linear PSU.  Once you have compared them, you will realize that the linearity and dynamic are much better with a Linear PSU.  Also the liquidity and nuances details.

That is the result of the switching power supplies creating it own noises, that has ripples in voltages, which creates errors in the whole circuitry, which in turn triggering the errors corrections algorithms to work harder, and it also triggers other DSP filters to work harder, such as antialiasing (which is also out of human ranges)….and the end result of everything working to compensating another would be A+B+C+D, and the result is very noticeable as I mentioned

The conclusions is that, just don’t buy into anything with inferior specs in jitters, noises, and switching noises.  All of their excuses is that all the noises are beyond human ranges….but is it really ? 

Hearing is believing, I have shared my experiences, you don’t need to believe me, just do some comparisons for yourself and witness it.  Then decide for yourself


----------



## gLer

Whitigir said:


> Technically, jitters, noises, switching noises, are all beyond human hearing ranges.  However, you are not listening to the source that creates jitters, or switching noises alone
> 
> FE, power supply switching noises, there are a huge differences between a switching power supply (PSU) Vs a Linear PSU.  Once you have compared them, you will realize that the linearity and dynamic are much better with a Linear PSU.  Also the liquidity and nuances details.
> 
> ...


In the case of hunting down the now discontinued Chromecast Audio, I'd like to hear some actual feedback on it before wasting time and money. It seems to be a quick, easy and cost effective way to add wireless streaming to Taz without much fuss.


----------



## Whitigir

gLer said:


> In the case of hunting down the now discontinued Chromecast Audio, I'd like to hear some actual feedback on it before wasting time and money. It seems to be a quick, easy and cost effective way to add wireless streaming to Taz without much fuss.


I don’t use wireless, so I can’t comment here.  But the TAZ can even take IPhone for a streaming devices from the subscribers based apps, such as Tidal, AmazonHD, a Quobuz…etc.


----------



## endless402

gLer said:


> Yeah I've read conflicting reports about that. Most say the jitter is beyond audible range. I'd love to hear some first hand experience from someone who's tried it. Can only be better than BT I'd think?


gotta try  
BT isn't a high bar to beat. 
maybe a ifi zen stream? but then you'll have to invest in usb or coaxial  cable


----------



## Whitigir

There are also a lot of DAP that has wireless to use those streaming apps as well


----------



## gLer

endless402 said:


> gotta try
> BT isn't a high bar to beat.
> maybe a ifi zen stream? but then you'll have to invest in usb or coaxial  cable





Whitigir said:


> There are also a lot of DAP that has wireless to use those streaming apps as well


ifi Stream is an option. Though I'd like to keep it simple. I can connect my phone to Taz with usb and stream that way, but I'd prefer to cut the wires, makes it much easier and more convenient. 

If I can grab a CA for a good price I'll take one for the team and report back here.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Is anyone else using the Pre-outs from their taz? I own the Klipsch R-15PM, which are powered, I would like to know if anyone would recommend this for powered speakers.


----------



## Whitigir

I do use the pre-out as posted previously.


----------



## Lookout57

davidmthekidd said:


> Is anyone else using the Pre-outs from their taz? I own the Klipsch R-15PM, which are powered, I would like to know if anyone would recommend this for powered speakers.


I use them to connect to my Audioengine A5+ Powered Speakers. Works great.


----------



## Whitigir

The best way to use TAZ is actually from Pre-out.  These signals come from the analog amplifications circuitry, which is supposedly being the cleanest, and also have it own feedbacks Design for an even cleaner signals, together with acting as an errors corrections for the phones out from TAZ as well.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Whitigir said:


> The best way to use TAZ is actually from Pre-out.  These signals come from the analog amplifications circuitry, which is supposedly being the cleanest, and also have it own feedbacks Design for an even cleaner signals, together with acting as an errors corrections for the phones out from TAZ as well.


ok, in this case, would the Taz control the volume? or the speakers? also, should either one bet set all the way up? I have never done this before.


----------



## Whitigir

davidmthekidd said:


> ok, in this case, would the Taz control the volume? or the speakers? also, should either one bet set all the way up? I have never done this before.


You can choose to allow TAZ o control the vol, or fixed.  It is under menu setting


----------



## VancityDreaming

Whitigir said:


> You can choose to allow TAZ o control the vol, or fixed.  It is under menu setting


Whats a good amp to pair with the taz? Solid state or tubes?


----------



## Whitigir

VancityDreaming said:


> Whats a good amp to pair with the taz? Solid state or tubes?


That is upto your preferences.  I use 300B tubes amplifier with feedbacks and output transformers


----------



## Kiats

Whitigir said:


> You can choose to allow TAZ o control the vol, or fixed.  It is under menu setting


So I could use it into any of the desktop amps using this pre-amp function?


----------



## Lookout57

Kiats said:


> So I could use it into any of the desktop amps using this pre-amp function?


Yes


----------



## Whitigir

Kiats said:


> So I could use it into any of the desktop amps using this pre-amp function?


Yes, definitely, and totally recommended.

This is the cleanest digital music you can get from any of the S-Master as a DAC technology , by and from Sony.  This is a wet dream for anyone who love S-Master signatures


----------



## Kiats

Whitigir said:


> Yes, definitely, and totally recommended.
> 
> This is the cleanest digital music you can get from any of the S-Master as a DAC technology , by and from Sony.  This is a wet dream for anyone who love S-Master signatures


Thanks! Yes, I can then run it into my Stax rig as well.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Jun 2, 2022)

gLer said:


> ifi Stream is an option. Though I'd like to keep it simple. I can connect my phone to Taz with usb and stream that way, but I'd prefer to cut the wires, makes it much easier and more convenient.
> 
> If I can grab a CA for a good price I'll take one for the team and report back here.


Minimalism is good for my mind and wallet, and that forever increasing spaghetti-like mass of cables accumulating under my desk.
I don't stream from music services but looked into the Chromecast Audio as an easy way to stream local audio files and video audio but it didn't look to serve my needs. I hope the Chromecast works as a small easy option but was thinking you might just be better off with the iFi option - they both require the same USB/wall power plug and an audio cable to connect tot he TA, and if you're anything like me you will eventually wonder how much better quality the iFi will provide and end up with it anyway. Before getting my BTA30 I tested my BTR5 using a budget 3.5mm to RCA cable and the TA still worked wonders with the less than ideal source method but it will serve you well to go for a higher quality component.
I wanted the iFi Zen Blue (bluetooth) but I didn't have the budget but also chose the BTA30 as it can transmit which I intend to use with my blu-ray player.


----------



## Kiats

Excellent news today. Since I was reminded about the incoming TAZ today when Sony Online sent me an email for a review of the TAZ, I pinged the Sony Online WhatsApp channel to ask about the progress of the shipment. It transpires that it will arrive in Singapore tomorrow and should be ready for delivery next week.


----------



## Whitigir

Kiats said:


> Excellent news today. Since I was reminded about the incoming TAZ today when Sony Online sent me an email for a review of the TAZ, I pinged the Sony Online WhatsApp channel to ask about the progress of the shipment. It transpires that it will arrive in Singapore tomorrow and should be ready for delivery next week.


Congratulations!!


----------



## The1Signature (Jun 3, 2022)

Whitigir said:


> I do use the pre-out as posted previously.


you did post it here:


Whitigir said:


> The preamp out is from Analog circuitry side of the TAZ, running true balanced, but pre amplifier out to be SE, and the reason is because over the differential stage, using Opamp, incorporating feedbacks, the output is noise free from the S-Master generating pulses and it topology. Therefore, the best way for someone to enjoy a more Hi-Fi punchiness signature is to utilize the “Pre-amp” output of the TAZ and feeding toward an external Amplifier that has Negative Feedback. *By doing this, you have some what feedbacks from the unique pre-Amp out by S-Master (which is then canceled by it own amplification for phones out) and then having true analog feedback from your external Amp.* Once again, the result is easily observable.






Whitigir said:


> This is the cleanest digital music you can get from any of the S-Master as a DAC technology , by and from Sony. This is a wet dream for anyone who love S-Master signatures


i am learning so much here from you all. thank you.

i needed to watch 2 videos to understand the difference between pre-amp and power amp and why a "high quality pre-amp" is better than the always integrated pre-amp in a power amp.

video 1: The difference between preamps and power amps

video 2: Do preamps enhance sound quality?

my understanding so far:

*scenario 1: speakers*
i can use the taz as a dac + pre-amp.
result: warm sony signature s-master sound characteristics.

this goes into a power amp for speakers.

q1)
but this power amp "does not?!" change the sound characteristics anymore but give the necessary power?

*scenario 2: headphones*
i use the dac / amp combo of my taz to enjoy music via headphones.

however, i could also use the dac of the taz only and connect it with a Burson Soloist 3X GT - a pure amp.

q2)
in such a case, what happens with the sound characteristic? do we have still the warm sony signature s-master sound characteristics or the burson or a mix?


----------



## Whitigir

You will always get S-master sound, just more or less, depend on the amplifier, and with some of the amp own tuning


----------



## Kiats

Whitigir said:


> Congratulations!!


Thank you! Most excited! It does come earlier than expected and stock of the FiiO BTA 30 Pro will not be in yet. But it is fine. Will do USB out of the Mac Mini and run Roon in the meantime.


----------



## nc8000

The1Signature said:


> you did post it here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A seperate pre-amp is not necasarily better or worse than the pre-amp part of an integrated amp, it all depends on the individual components in question. 

Any power amp (and pre-amp) will impress it’s own signature on the final sound, but some amps have less signature than others. The ideal (and non existing) power amp is the famed “wire with gain” that does nothing more than adjust volume


----------



## Whitigir

nc8000 said:


> A seperate pre-amp is not necasarily better or worse than the pre-amp part of an integrated amp, it all depends on the individual components in question.
> 
> Any power amp (and pre-amp) will impress it’s own signature on the final sound, but some amps have less signature than others. The ideal (and non existing) power amp is the famed “wire with gain” that does nothing more than adjust volume


That is a way too simplistic to say, in reality, amplifier is like inflating an air balloon.  Original balloon is as big as a thumb, and when inflated can be as huge as can be.  So the amplifications is actually the air that utilized to inflate the balloon.  One can use oxygen, or helium….etc…so depends on the air, the differences will be there.

If one say, amplifier should do nothing more than adjusting the volume, then where does the volume potentials coming from ? And from this perspective, it is non existent.


----------



## The1Signature

nc8000 said:


> A seperate pre-amp is not necasarily better or worse than the pre-amp part of an integrated amp, it all depends on the individual components in question.


they say that a high quality pre-amp makes the difference.

an example is the Aesthetix Calypso


----------



## Kiats

I am hoping some one would be able to help. I was reading about the Walkman port on the side of the TAZ. Browsing the online manual. From what I can see, to use that with the 1A/1Z, I would need a WM dock? 

I was also reading that it can be used with the Sony Xperia mobile phone. Would it work with other makes of mobile phones? 

Thanks in advance for any help.


----------



## Whitigir

The1Signature said:


> they say that a high quality pre-amp makes the difference.
> 
> an example is the Aesthetix Calypso


But why would you need a preamp ? The preamp is where it tampers with the sound signature the most, so the preamp will bring a great different.  The TAZ is already a pre-amp by itself, should you choose to opt for the volume controllable options while using preout


----------



## The1Signature (Jun 3, 2022)

Kiats said:


> I am hoping some one would be able to help. I was reading about the Walkman port on the side of the TAZ. Browsing the online manual. From what I can see, to use that with the 1A/1Z, I would need a WM dock?


no, just the sony walkman cable, see here:


----------



## Whitigir

The1Signature said:


> no, jut the sony walkman cable,


That is simply a micro-usb port, you can use any micro-usb cable and devices


----------



## Lookout57

Kiats said:


> I am hoping some one would be able to help. I was reading about the Walkman port on the side of the TAZ. Browsing the online manual. From what I can see, to use that with the 1A/1Z, I would need a WM dock?
> 
> I was also reading that it can be used with the Sony Xperia mobile phone. Would it work with other makes of mobile phones?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.


The PC-USB port supports higher resolutions than the Walkman port is the recommended port to use.


----------



## The1Signature

Whitigir said:


> But why would you need a preamp ? The preamp is where it tampers with the sound signature the most, so the preamp will bring a great different.  The TAZ is already a pre-amp by itself, should you choose to opt for the volume controllable options while using preout


i am still learning from you all and the 2 scenarios i wrote were just out of curiosity and to check my understanding of the different combinations and influences.


----------



## The1Signature

Whitigir said:


> *Input selections *
> 
> TAZ perform best with USB PC (Type B in the back) as the Walkman on the side is limited at 192Khz/DSD256 which also internally running a generic cables toward the back.
> 
> Coax and Optical are both going to feed into the Sample rate converters by AKM, which is similar to (Not staying to the original wave forms and format)


@Lookout57 as written here.


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 3, 2022)

The1Signature said:


> i am still learning from you all and the 2 scenarios i wrote were just out of curiosity and to check my understanding of the different combinations and influences.


Preamp is only used when the volumes need to be adjustable.  For some equipments, the power amplifiers don’t have any volume adjustments, and therefore the preamp will need to be used.  However, with many modern DAC, the Pre Out lines are adjustable and that the DAC itself is also considered a Preamp

Most of the use case scenario for Preamp is coming from vynil set up.  The turn tables will go to a phono stages which provides a fixed output, and with power amplifier that has no volume attenuations, you will need a preamp inserted in the chain


----------



## The1Signature

Whitigir said:


> Preamp is only used when the volumes need to be adjustable.  For some equipments, the power amplifiers don’t have any volume adjustments, and therefore the preamp will need to be used.  However, with many modern DAC, the Pre Out lines are adjustable and that the DAC itself is also considered a Preamp
> 
> Most of the use case scenario for Preamp is coming from vynil set up.  The turn tables will go to a phono stages which provides a fixed output, and with power amplifier that has no volume attenuations, you will need a preamp inserted in the chain


this is what i learned from the videos as well. plus the impedance issue and the power such a large speakers needs.


----------



## Kiats

Lookout57 said:


> The PC-USB port supports higher resolutions than the Walkman port is the recommended port to use.


Thanks! I will use that for MacMini to the TAZ. Using a mobile phone is a temporary state of affairs until stocks of the FiiO BTA30 Pro comes in


----------



## Kiats

Kiats said:


> Thanks! I will use that for MacMini to the TAZ. Using a mobile phone is a temporary state of affairs until stocks of the FiiO BTA30 Pro comes in


I just realised an alternative is to use the Spdif out of a iBasso DX300 into the TAZ.


----------



## Whitigir

Kiats said:


> I just realised an alternative is to use the Spdif out of a iBasso DX300 into the TAZ.


What are you trying to accomplish?


----------



## Kiats

Whitigir said:


> What are you trying to accomplish?


Just having music streaming into the TAZ prior to getting my hands on a BT receiver like the FiiO BTA30 Pro.


----------



## Willis

Kiats said:


> Excellent news today. Since I was reminded about the incoming TAZ today when Sony Online sent me an email for a review of the TAZ, I pinged the Sony Online WhatsApp channel to ask about the progress of the shipment. It transpires that it will arrive in Singapore tomorrow and should be ready for delivery next week.


Do you mind sharing where you bought your TAZ. I am very interested but the TAZ is out of stock in SG.


----------



## Kiats

Willis said:


> Do you mind sharing where you bought your TAZ. I am very interested but the TAZ is out of stock in SG.


I actually fortuitously came across it on Sony Online Store where they had it listed for a slightly discount. But someone else checked and it is now out of stock again.


----------



## Willis

Kiats said:


> I actually fortuitously came across it on Sony Online Store where they had it listed for a slightly discount. But someone else checked and it is now out of stock again.


omg! I checked the Sony online store dozens of time in the past 6 months. Congrats to your new purchase.


----------



## gLer

Kiats said:


> Just having music streaming into the TAZ prior to getting my hands on a BT receiver like the FiiO BTA30 Pro.


I'm looking to do the same. I have a Chomecast Audio on the way. I was going to go the BT route but figured lossless WiFi to spdif would be better quality than LDAC. I'll know soon enough.


----------



## Kiats

gLer said:


> I'm looking to do the same. I have a Chomecast Audio on the way. I was going to go the BT route but figured lossless WiFi to spdif would be better quality than LDAC. I'll know soon enough.


Let us know how it goes. But iFi has a Zen Stream v2 if I recall correctly which can do streaming via wifi too.


----------



## The1Signature

Kiats said:


> Let us know how it goes. But iFi has a Zen Stream v2 if I recall correctly which can do streaming via wifi too.


Zen Stream, not V2.


----------



## gLer

Kiats said:


> Let us know how it goes. But iFi has a Zen Stream v2 if I recall correctly which can do streaming via wifi too.


Yes it does, but it's also a bigger, bulkier and more cumbersome solution. If the quality via CA matches what I expect from lossless Redbook streaming, I'll be over the moon. Will let you know as soon as I get it.


----------



## Kiats

gLer said:


> Yes it does, but it's also a bigger, bulkier and more cumbersome solution. If the quality via CA matches what I expect from lossless Redbook streaming, I'll be over the moon. Will let you know as soon as I get it.


I can understand. Which is why the FiiO BTA30 Pro is a more attractive option for me vs the iFi Zen Blue v2.


----------



## The1Signature

gLer said:


> Yes it does, but it's also a bigger, bulkier and more cumbersome solution. If the quality via CA matches what I expect from lossless Redbook streaming, I'll be over the moon. Will let you know as soon as I get it.


i will wait what you say. maybe i will buy it as well.


----------



## iFi audio

endless402 said:


> maybe a ifi zen stream? but then you'll have to invest in usb or coaxial cable



That's true, either one or the other are mandatory, thanks!


----------



## Kiats

The TAZ has landed!


----------



## Kiats

Just setting up the TAZ right next to the DMP.


----------



## gLer

Kiats said:


> The TAZ has landed!


Congrats! Look forward to your feedback, and some comparisons to 1Z and DMP 🤗


----------



## Kiats

gLer said:


> Congrats! Look forward to your feedback, and some comparisons to 1Z and DMP 🤗


definitely so! Funny thing: I was wondering where was the up and down button for the menu. When I read the manual again, I realised that the mysteriously placed screws above and below the button were the up and down buttons...


----------



## Kiats

Chilling to Roon on the TAZ and Final D8000.


----------



## iFi audio

Kiats said:


> Chilling to Roon on the TAZ and Final D8000.



These are awesome cans, please enjoy the heck out of them  !


----------



## camera

Kiats said:


> The TAZ has landed!


Congrats! Time to play with your new toy.


----------



## Kiats

Just moving on to the HD800S. Love the saturation on It Wouldn’t Have Made Any Difference by Alison Krauss “Forget About It”.


----------



## audiojr

gLer said:


> Congrats! Look forward to your feedback, and some comparisons to 1Z and DMP 🤗ome comparisons between the zh1es and dmp.





Kiats said:


> Just setting up the TAZ right next to the DMP.


Appreciate if you could share some comparisons between the 2. Contemplating whether to get the DMP.


----------



## Kiats (Jun 6, 2022)

audiojr said:


> Appreciate if you could share some comparisons between the 2. Contemplating whether to get the DMP.


Do you already have the TAZ? Will try to give the DMP a bit more listen as well.


----------



## Wikinaut

I gave my TAZ with my MDR-Z1R to my 12 yo son. It was either that or selling it. At least, he'll get a taste of good audio! I loved using it at the office, but my taste has changed since. Still, it was too much pain to just let it go to stranger.


----------



## Kiats

audiojr said:


> Appreciate if you could share some comparisons between the 2. Contemplating whether to get the DMP.



Been spending some time earlier today using the DX300 spdif out into coaxial input of the TAZ. With streaming apps.

This evening, I decided to switch back to the DMP using the HD800S. Streaming via LDAC.

At this early stage, my initial impressions when I first heard the TAZ yesterday were correct. Same Sony house sound. But the TAZ is richer and has more saturation. The DMP on the other hand has more separation. Not as dense, and consequently it sounds like it has a bigger soundstage.

I think it really is a matter of juxtaposition and context. It’s all relative. Prior to listening on the TAZ and then comparing with the DMP, I would never have thought of the DMP as being more reference or transparent sounding.

Which is better? Well, I think it will depend on the sort of music you listen to, your headphones and your personal preferences. What is clear to me: no regrets picking up the TAZ as well.


----------



## nc8000

Kiats said:


> Been spending some time earlier today using the DX300 spdif out into coaxial input of the TAZ. With streaming apps.
> 
> This evening, I decided to switch back to the DMP using the HD800S. Streaming via LDAC.
> 
> ...


I’ve certainly been so satisfied with the TA plus Auralic Aries Mini streamer that I have not really felt any desire to try the DMP (apart from the fact that it has never been available in Denmark to buy or even try).


----------



## Kiats

nc8000 said:


> I’ve certainly been so satisfied with the TA plus Auralic Aries Mini streamer that I have not really felt any desire to try the DMP (apart from the fact that it has never been available in Denmark to buy or even try).



I can understand why. The TAZ has much to commend itself. Versatile too. I have the USB input via my Melco NAS, which is roon ready and so I use Roon (incl Tidal) that way. I will use the BT route into the coaxial input in course for other streaming services. Even now, using the DX300 as digital source for streaming services into the coaxial input works very nicely too.


----------



## nc8000

Kiats said:


> I can understand why. The TAZ has much to commend itself. Versatile too. I have the USB input via my Melco NAS, which is roon ready and so I use Roon (incl Tidal) that way. I will use the BT route into the coaxial input in course for other streaming services. Even now, using the DX300 as digital source for streaming services into the coaxial input works very nicely too.


The Auralic has integrated Tidal client with mqa support and I have a 4TB ssd in it. The optical in is fed from my tv


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 7, 2022)

Kiats said:


> Been spending some time earlier today using the DX300 spdif out into coaxial input of the TAZ. With streaming apps.
> 
> This evening, I decided to switch back to the DMP using the HD800S. Streaming via LDAC.
> 
> ...




Agreed, and that was why I worked on and modified the TAZ .

People keeps telling me that sound is subjective, which it is as a fact.  However, once you started to have a references points, then you will understand the differences and comparisons.  Then among those differences and comparisons, you will need to realizes there are pitches between instruments, and if the pitches and the tonal is correct, then it doesn’t matter if the signature is warm, bright or neutral, all the pitches and tones will be staying with those imbued signatures.  I am speaking for both the headphones or iems and Amplifiers, DAC…etc…In my opinions, a good systems is where you can spot right away which tone, bridges, instruments, notes, pitches are right away and not confused, again, regardless of being warmer or brighter.  The reason why I enjoy all sound signatures is because in real life, instruments can also be different in tuning, adjusting to harmonizes with the rest of the gig as well.  At least, audiophiles are loving those.  They also strives for neutral-sterile signatures because they believe that it brings the intentions of the whole recordings and atmosphere to the experiences as original as can be.  I, myself, is just an enthusiast as I enjoy what moves me.

I know the TAZ is too warm and boomy when comparing to other systems, together with the pitches and tonal balances to be out of whack tilting toward bass and warmth as a signatures.  I studied it schematic, followed every one of Sony engineering team interviews, and I found out the reason, why and how to improve it, which I am glad I did.

Among the TAZ and MDR-Z1R, I can say that the MDR-Z1R is a more balanced but with strong sub bass and mid bass presenting.  I know and have friends who criticizes the MDR-Z1R to be too warmth and bass focused, they don’t even care about the dynamic and soundstage of the MDR Z1R at all.  But IMO, the MDR-Z1R is actually very well made full-sizes, being closed back, with such powerful and clean bass performances like this, I am sure Sony is the king among closed back for this aspect.  Yes, there are different way to also tune it an tweak it as I just did to bring improvements to it according to my experiences and references.  However, in stock form, the MDR-Z1R isn’t as bad as people making it out to be.  The TAZ on another hand, is a bit out of hand in warmth and bass saturations as you mentioned.

But then again, sound is subjective, and your subjective opinions will scale with the experiences as you go.  That is why I keep telling people to just listen to believe it.  The most important part is to know what and how you like it, staying with it.  Remember! It is you who do the listening and enjoying, not someone else


----------



## Kiats

Whitigir said:


> Agreed, and that was why I worked on and modified the TAZ .
> 
> People keeps telling me that sound is subjective, which it is as a fact.  However, once you started to have a references points, then you will understand the differences and comparisons.  Then among those differences and comparisons, you will need to realizes there are pitches between instruments, and if the pitches and the tonal is correct, then it doesn’t matter if the signature is warm, bright or neutral, all the pitches and tones will be staying with those imbued signatures.  I am speaking for both the headphones or iems and Amplifiers, DAC…etc…In my opinions, a good systems is where you can spot right away which tone, bridges, instruments, notes, pitches are right away and not confused, again, regardless of being warmer or brighter.  The reason why I enjoy all sound signatures is because in real life, instruments can also be different in tuning, adjusting to harmonizes with the rest of the gig as well
> 
> ...



Indeed. Hence, I enjoy both iterations of the Sony house sound. And I am glad that I do have both the DMP and the TAZ.


----------



## gLer

I find bass on Taz spot-on perfect for my taste, especially with IER-Z1R. With MDR I can actually use a touch more sub-bass with Taz, but that's only compared to IER, which for me is the king of sub-bass. Treble on the MDR, however, could be a touch smoother and less emphasised, especially the peak around 8-10kHz (and that's even with the Axios CU cable upgrade). Pity that Taz doesn't have tone controls like the WM1Z.


----------



## Whitigir

Kiats said:


> Indeed. Hence, I enjoy both iterations of the Sony house sound. And I am glad that I do have both the DMP and the TAZ.


Another thing is that I think, and at least seen that Sony always developed their signature 15-20 years before the market can catch up.  Hence the reason why most of Sony legendary products were never welcomed at the release….until 15-20 years down the road, it isn’t produced anymore, and things got trashed, tossed around, can’t find them any longer, and inflation with demand for them will just surface up out of the blues.

I think the one reason why Sony fell behind Apple was because they didn’t think, and or believed that people would be enjoying “noises” coming from “mp3” files rather than CD quality LOL!  Guess what ? They were right, but that is only for a small minority, the majority of people just jam on in a noisy environment going to work and commute.

But now, it seems they are back


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 7, 2022)

gLer said:


> I find bass on Taz spot-on perfect for my taste, especially with IER-Z1R. With MDR I can actually use a touch more sub-bass with Taz, but that's only compared to IER, which for me is the king of sub-bass. Treble on the MDR, however, could be a touch smoother and less emphasised, especially the peak around 8-10kHz (and that's even with the Axios CU cable upgrade). Pity that Taz doesn't have tone controls like the WM1Z.


The MDR with TAZ, the reason why you don’t feel that sub bass is because it bled and overwhelm the lower bass, so they kinda blurred their lines.  The IER-Z1R is better because it is a more neutral tuning than MDR.  When you have too much of the goods on top of too much of other goods….you will be overwhelmed.  But when you compare between MDR VS IER on a more neutral system, the MDR is a sub bass and bass monster, where as the IER is just a little brother in a good dress .

That bothersome trebles is from the internal wires as I can confirm.  It isn’t bad, and I found out it is possible the best that Sony could source and implemented into the MDR with all engineering concerns.  It took me a great efforts to upgrades it.  This bothersome peaks will be smoothed out better with upgraded cables, such as quality silver or copper.


----------



## Kiats

Whitigir said:


> Another thing is that I think, and at least seen that Sony always developed their signature 15-20 years before the market can catch up.  Hence the reason why most of Sony legendary products were never welcomed at the release….until 15-20 years down the road, it isn’t produced anymore, and things got trashed, tossed around, can’t find them any longer, and inflation with demand for them will just surface up out of the blues.
> 
> I think the one reason why Sony fell behind Apple was because they didn’t think, and or believed that people would be enjoying “noises” coming from “mp3” files rather than CD quality LOL!  Guess what ? They were right, but that is only for a small minority, the majority of people just jam on in a noisy environment going to work and commute.
> 
> But now, it seems they are back



That is true. I am sure now that the TAZ has been discontinued and soon the DMP will disappear, there will be more people hunting them down.  

Anyway, although the arrival of the TAZ and, before that, the DMP has brought a different perspective of music into my listening repertoire, I am still happily enjoying some of the older systems like the Shanling M30.


----------



## camera

Kiats said:


> That is true. I am sure now that the TAZ has been discontinued and soon the DMP will disappear, there will be more people hunting them down.


I hope that there is a TA-ZH2ES to be announced in the coming IFA.


----------



## Whitigir

camera said:


> I hope that there is a TA-ZH2ES to be announced in the coming IFA.


While I do hope so, but I will wait for when price drop before 3ES come out.  I have seen what Sony have been doing, massive produced products will have some kind of water-down just for the sake of either better service-ability, or profit margin possibilities.

at least with MDR Z1R I saw that it was for better service ability , and TAZ was for profit margin lol!


----------



## Xanderman

The TAZ is sold out in Singapore and the wait time for the next shipment is indefinite. Does this mean ...


----------



## Kiats

Xanderman said:


> The TAZ is sold out in Singapore and the wait time for the next shipment is indefinite. Does this mean ...


Unfortunately, it means Sony is not certain when they will be able to procure stock. It has been sold out for the longest time. I just happened to be fortunate to see it come back online with a discount. I ordered and then it was sold out. The team then contacted me to tell me that they needed to bring it in from outside Singapore.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> Unfortunately, it means Sony is not certain when they will be able to procure stock. It has been sold out for the longest time. I just happened to be fortunate to see it come back online with a discount. I ordered and then it was sold out. The team then contacted me to tell me that they needed to bring it in from outside Singapore.


They’re still available in Japan. That’s a surprise


----------



## Vamp898 (Jun 9, 2022)

Some stores in germany have it in stock too
https://www.galaxus.de/de/s1/produc...chalter-usb-dac-kopfhoererverstaerker-5983905

According to kakaku, its in Stock in 27 Stores in Japan right now, so if someone really wants an TA-ZH1ES, it should be possible to get one


----------



## Xanderman

Maybe the TAZ with 220v power supply are sold out?


----------



## Vamp898

Xanderman said:


> Maybe the TAZ with 220v power supply are sold out?


The one that is in stock in germany is 220V


----------



## Kiats

Trying the Focal Utopia with the TAZ. Gorgeous. Adds that richness of tonality and depth of soundstage.


----------



## Whitigir

Kiats said:


> Trying the Focal Utopia with the TAZ. Gorgeous. Adds that richness of tonality and depth of soundstage.


It actually match and pair better than MDR Z1R lol! Probably just me though


----------



## Kiats

Whitigir said:


> It actually match and pair better than MDR Z1R lol! Probably just me though


Not you. I agree. Great synergy!


----------



## davidmthekidd

Taz is fully stocked in USA doubt, we'd see taz2 this year.


----------



## tradyblix (Jun 9, 2022)

The one thing I would like to see improved on the Tazzy if they do do another version is better power on SE connections. It's fine in balanced but I find the SE output lacking a bit with some headphones.

Also devices like this really ought to have a Sony Headphones Connect like mobile app experience as well. Especially at that price point. And a visualizer. Give us some eye candy.


----------



## Roland P

I would like to see a matching cd player.


----------



## Kiats

Rotating to the MySphere 3.2 on the TAZ today. Using the DX300 to stream QQ Music via Spdif into the coaxial input on the TAZ.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> Rotating to the MySphere 3.2 on the TAZ today. Using the DX300 to stream QQ Music via Spdif into the coaxial input on the TAZ.


Need to get my Focal Clear someday


----------



## Kiats

Gamerlingual said:


> Need to get my Focal Clear someday


Is that a closed can? I can’t say I have followed the Focal product line up much.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> Is that a closed can? I can’t say I have followed the Focal product line up much.


Open cans


----------



## Kiats

Gamerlingual said:


> Open cans


Ah OK. If it is anything like the Utopia, it will be a fantastic pairing with the TAZ


----------



## Kiats

Whilst I do love the MySphere 3.2, my head doesn’t always agree with the headband. 

Hence moved on to the Meze Empyrean, with Eletech Inferno cable courtesy of @Eric Chong.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> Ah OK. If it is anything like the Utopia, it will be a fantastic pairing with the TAZ


I actually chose the Clear over the Utopia. Even I questioned my own sanity. After some time and listening to the Utopia on the TA, they do sound really good. But there was more synergy for my ears. Who knows? Maybe I’ll get these or the Stellia someday


----------



## tradyblix (Jun 10, 2022)

Clear is a much better bang for the buck than Utopia is anyway. Unless money's no object, some of the flagships are just priced high to anchor a product line and then they can sell lower end cans underneath it. That's my feeling lately. once you go over 3 grand it's really hard to justify the cost. Nobody can convince me Diana is worth 4500 or Susvara is worth 6k.

Pretty sure that's how Hifiman sells Aryas like hotcakes as people think they're getting a no-frills HEK lite for half off


----------



## Kiats

tradyblix said:


> Clear is a much better bang for the buck than Utopia is anyway. Unless money's no object, some of the flagships are just priced high to anchor a product line and then they can sell lower end cans underneath it. That's my feeling lately. once you go over 3 grand it's really hard to justify the cost. Nobody can convince me Diana is worth 4500 or Susvara is worth 6k.
> 
> Pretty sure that's how Hifiman sells Aryas like hotcakes as people think they're getting a no-frills HEK lite for half off


Well, it is like the Sony 1Z and 1ZM2: it is the engineers unleashed to showcase what they are capable of. 

All the talk about Hifiman got me to dig up my Hifiman HE1000v2 for a listen on the TAZ.  Nice easy going way to start the weekend.


----------



## VancityDreaming

Kiats said:


> Well, it is like the Sony 1Z and 1ZM2: it is the engineers unleashed to showcase what they are capable of.
> 
> All the talk about Hifiman got me to dig up my Hifiman HE1000v2 for a listen on the TAZ.  Nice easy going way to start the weekend.


TAZ drives the hifimans well?


----------



## nc8000

VancityDreaming said:


> TAZ drives the hifimans well?


It might with these ones, it could not drive the HE-6 that I had when I first got the TA


----------



## VancityDreaming

nc8000 said:


> It might with these ones, it could not drive the HE-6 that I had when I first got the TA


I got my TA coming in the mail. Excited to listen to it. Hopefully it will play well with my hd600 and ier-z1r.


----------



## gLer

VancityDreaming said:


> I got my TA coming in the mail. Excited to listen to it. Hopefully it will play well with my hd600 and ier-z1r.


It's possibly the best source ever made for the IER-Z1R imo. 😎


----------



## Vamp898

gLer said:


> It's possibly the best source ever made for the IER-Z1R imo. 😎


Absolutely agree, but if the same is true for the HD600 :X we'll see^^


----------



## Kiats

VancityDreaming said:


> TAZ drives the hifimans well?


No issues with these. I would not try the HE-6 or Susvara.


----------



## Kiats

Decided to take out an old favourite for a spin with the TAZ. I recall when the Fostex TH900 first came out, everyone was marveling at 1 Tesla driver in a closed can. @Uncle Wilson and his team at Jaben even wore white gloves to unbox to show the headphone. Because the urushi cups were finger print magnets. Plus I recall it was then one of the most expensive pair of headphones around. 

Now that price point no longer raises eyebrows. But the TH900 still gives joy.


----------



## Kiats

I don’t suppose anyone has tried the Audio Technica AWKT headphone with the TAZ?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> I don’t suppose anyone has tried the Audio Technica AWKT headphone with the TAZ?


I did at E-Earphone. Give it a try. It shines brightly


----------



## Kiats

Gamerlingual said:


> I did at E-Earphone. Give it a try. It shines brightly


Thanks man. What do you mean by “shines brightly”? Good or bad thing?


----------



## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> Thanks man. What do you mean by “shines brightly”? Good or bad thing?


The treble shines. Bass not as much. I prefer warmer, but these sound very good for the type of sound it gives


----------



## Kiats

Gamerlingual said:


> The treble shines. Bass not as much. I prefer warmer, but these sound very good for the type of sound it gives


Ah. Got it! I read that the trebles are excellent without being screechy. Will give them a try tomorrow at the Audio Technica showroom. I thought they’d be a great companion to the DMP and TAZ which are on the warmer side of neutral.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Kiats said:


> Ah. Got it! I read that the trebles are excellent without being screechy. Will give them a try tomorrow at the Audio Technica showroom. I thought they’d be a great companion to the DMP and TAZ which are on the warmer side of neutral.


Nope. They won’t shatter your hearing. You’ll be ok


----------



## Vamp898

Kiats said:


> Ah. Got it! I read that the trebles are excellent without being screechy. Will give them a try tomorrow at the Audio Technica showroom. I thought they’d be a great companion to the DMP and TAZ which are on the warmer side of neutral.


Comparing to my M11 Plus (which is considered dead neutral), the TA-ZH1ES is much better, but not warmer.

I'd say they have the same level of natural, but the TA-ZH1ES sounds much more 3D/authentic/real, especially in terms of soundstage and is significantly faster.

But to my ears, it's not warmer.


----------



## Nicolas Yance

VancityDreaming said:


> TAZ drives the hifimans well?


I also have a pair of v2s and a Taz, for me it doesn’t drive them well. I feel my pro iCan and WA5 do a much better job.


----------



## tradyblix (Jun 11, 2022)

VancityDreaming said:


> TAZ drives the hifimans well?



For Hifiman Arya V3, Taz only, SE stock cable I was at -9 (which is high). On balanced (XLR) I'm around -14 to -13 on average. High gain mode.

My hearing: I can't hear frequencies above 14k.

I usually start new headphones at around -20 which is always a safe volume for me. Lower than that is quiet.


----------



## Vamp898

tradyblix said:


> For Hifiman Arya V3, Taz only, SE stock cable I was at -9 (which is high). On balanced (XLR) I'm around -14 to -13 on average. High gain mode.
> 
> My hearing: I can't hear frequencies above 14k.
> 
> I usually start new headphones at around -20 which is always a safe volume for me. Lower than that is quiet.


As I only have the MDR-Z1R (and the HD820 in the past) i never touched the high gain button 

I mean I did for testing but never for actual listening.

But -9 on low gain seems like there is still some headroom even on low Gain.

I wonder what headphones max out low gain without being loud enough


----------



## nc8000

Vamp898 said:


> As I only have the MDR-Z1R (and the HD820 in the past) i never touched the high gain button
> 
> I mean I did for testing but never for actual listening.
> 
> ...


HE-6 maxed out high gain


----------



## The1Signature

Vamp898 said:


> As I only have the MDR-Z1R (and the HD820 in the past) i never touched the high gain button
> 
> I mean I did for testing but never for actual listening.
> 
> ...


i just bought the taz and had only high gain so far. after reading here in this forum that is was made for low gain actually... to get the max of the sq... i will test it tomorrow.


----------



## davidmthekidd (Jun 11, 2022)

Vamp898 said:


> As I only have the MDR-Z1R (and the HD820 in the past) i never touched the high gain button
> 
> I mean I did for testing but never for actual listening.
> 
> ...


So you prefer low gain for the MDR-Z1R?? On high, I usually listen between -32 / -44. Some CDs mastered In the 80s or mid 90s might require -29. I wonder if low gain is suggested for the MDR-Z1R, I drive mine via 4.4mm pentacon.


----------



## tradyblix

Vamp898 said:


> As I only have the MDR-Z1R (and the HD820 in the past) i never touched the high gain button
> 
> I mean I did for testing but never for actual listening.
> 
> ...



Everyones ears are different, but I only ever use low gain mode for sensitive IEMs.


----------



## Kiats

tradyblix said:


> Everyones ears are different, but I only ever use low gain mode for sensitive IEMs.


Agree. That’s why there are so many options on the TAZ. And which is why I find it so useful, other than I am loving the Sony house sound. 

Whether it drives any particular pair of cans well or not mostly could be down to what you are looking for from the can.


----------



## The1Signature

davidmthekidd said:


> So you prefer low gain for the MDR-Z1R?? On high, I usually listen between -32 / -44. Some CDs mastered In the 80s or mid 90s might require -29. I wonder if low gain is suggested for the MDR-Z1R, I drive mine via 4.4mm pentacon.


somewhere back in this forum it was written that the taz gives you the best sq via low gain.

see here the post from @Whitigir.


----------



## Kiats

This is really a blast from the past: the Final Audio Sonorous X. Will need to replace the earpads though. Does not detract from the listening pleasure though.


----------



## Vamp898 (Jun 12, 2022)

The1Signature said:


> somewhere back in this forum it was written that the taz gives you the best sq via low gain.
> 
> see here the post from @Whitigir.


Every Amp that exists gives best sq via LowGain.

That HighGain sounds better is an myth that have been disproven countles times by now.

But there is no physical law that would back that claim in the first place. There is absolutely no reason why high gain should sound better.

Example (attention, fake numbers for the sake of simplicity)

Low Gain -10db = 5V
High Gain -20db = 5V

5V are 5V, the volts don't know if they are from high gain or low gain

U / R = I

You don't change the voltage, you don't change the resistance (same capacitors, same Headphone), so the result is the same.


----------



## The1Signature

Vamp898 said:


> But there is no physical law that would back that claim in the first place. There is absolutely no reason why high gain should sound better.


so this would mean that the information below is wrong?



Whitigir said:


> *The TA-ZH1ES performing best with Low gain*, and not in high gain. The result is very noticeable that the TAZ becomes overly warm and saturated while compromising the dynamic achieved as well. That is because the TAZ was built and engineered around Discrete S-Master with Low gain, and high-gain is simply an Add on for additional features that raise the voltage rails a bit with trade off.


----------



## Vamp898 (Jun 12, 2022)

The1Signature said:


> so this would mean that the information below is wrong?


It's not, you increase distortion.

But that's something different because the distortion is caused, long before the signal goes to the headphone.

High gain does change the quality of the sound in a negative way, but it does not influence how good it can drive your headphones other than volume.

If you listen at the same volume, you still push the same amount of Volts out to the Headphone.

There is this myth that amps with higher output voltage can drive Headphones like the Susvara better.

This is true, but only when you listen at very high volume.

If you listen at the same volume, the output power plays no role because at that moment, both have the exact same output power.

If you drive 50km/h with am Ferrari, you won't get faster to you destination then driving 50km/h with an Golf.

Just because the Ferrari does have the potential in driving faster, doesn't give it an advantage when you're driving 50km/h


----------



## Vamp898

To prevent any misunderstanding/make that more clear.

That doesn't mean that other amps can't drive Headphones better or worse.

What I mean is, if the TA-ZH1ES would have 5000mW, it would drive the Headphones in the exact same way than the current 1300mW version.

At the same volume, it would sound identical.

A different amp with an different technologies and different capacitors can of ourse make an difference, but not because their output power but their overall design.

As long it can make your headphones loud enough, the output power plays no role.

And the TA-ZH1ES can make almost all Headphones loud enough even in low gain.

If it can't drive an headphone well, that's unrelated to output power


----------



## StephanSchiller (Jun 13, 2022)

Is it possible to connect the WM1Z with a cable to the usb-b Port as well?
Directly without the Cradle? WM Port to usb-b


----------



## nc8000

StephanSchiller said:


> Is it possible to connect the WM1Z with a cable to the usb-b Port as well?
> Directly without the Cradle? WM Port to usb-b


Yes if you can find a cable with those terminations but then it won’t charge the player


----------



## The1Signature

Vamp898 said:


> It's not, you increase distortion.
> 
> But that's something different because the distortion is caused, long before the signal goes to the headphone.
> 
> ...


i have to dig deeper into the relationships of U R I of daps and what a change in one are means for the overall sound. you have any video you could recommend to start with?


----------



## Vamp898 (Jun 13, 2022)

The1Signature said:


> i have to dig deeper into the relationships of U R I of daps and what a change in one are means for the overall sound. you have any video you could recommend to start with?


This is an extremely complicated topic and most vendors don't tell you much.

The by far biggest influence on the sound is by the capacitors.

But good luck trying to find out what capacitors in what constellation are used by which vendors. Sony for example develops its own capacitors, they are proprietary and they don't provide any information about them.

Panasonic who is selling their capacitors to a lot of customers is luckily providing Information and as far as i know, even though they have been developed by Sony, their FTCAP are manufactured by panasonic. They are based on Panasonics OS-CON.

The main thing is that impedance is not linear. Headphones that say 64Ω @ 1kHz do have exactly that, 64Ω at 1kHz., But they have a completely different impedance at higher and lower frequencies.

Its the same with capacitors. That is what is called ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance). The Resistance is not flat.

And this is key. Because I is U / R.

If you have the same volume, you have the same U, all the time. That means if R changes, I changes.

That is why i say, output power is not from relevance. If you listen at the same volume, you have the same U. The only way to influence the sound is by the capacitors and their ESR

But also the ESR of the capacitor changes depending on how much it is charged, how old it is, its temperature and so on.

So there is no easy/simple answer. Capacitors that run at 14°C do have an different ESR than capacitors than when they have 50°C or 70°C. So if they heat up over time (what big capacitors do) the sound changes. That is why there is a big discussion about "Do you leave your gear on"

The WM1Z for example uses an 500mF capacitor as power source for 250mW. The FiiO M17 uses an 470mF capacitor as power source for 3000mW.

The Capacitors of the WM1Z can output more power than the capacitors inside the M17. The S-Master HX only has 250mW, but has consistent performance in the whole range.

The M17 will sound different when you push it to its limit because the capacitors will run at their limit and so the ESR changes.

And if you chnage R, you change I and so you change the Sound.

But this is just one of many aspects and already heavily simplified.

But it is a fact that if you tell someone an Amp does have 100mW (even though it has 3000mW) they will suddenly start to tell, that their headphones aren't driven good enough.

Some people say the DMP-Z1 drives Headphones better because it has 1500mW

But the DMP-Z1 1500mW are @ 16Ω while the TA-ZH1ES 1300mW are at 32Ω

So the DMP-Z1 does have roughly the half of the power of the TA-ZH1ES. But because the number on the paper is bigger, people will start to hear how it drives their headphones better.

That is why an blind A/B is the only thing that matters.

Sony is putting gigantic and totally oversized capacitors into their deivces. So the only thing you have to worry about is the volume.

Most Chinese companies only use the capacitors that are needed for the power output without headroom.

That is why a lot of people think you need headroom. With Chifi, you actually do. With the TA-ZH1ES, you dont. If you have to go to -3db until its load enough, why not? Just do it. The capacitors have more than enough power to back that.

Capacitors have the biggest influence to the sound in an amp and are the key aspect if it can drive your headphones well.

More Informations here: https://eu.industrial.panasonic.com/sites/default/pidseu/files/downloads/files/id_oscon1309_e.pdf

On Page 27 you can see the characteristcs depending on the frequency, temperature and so on


----------



## Kiats

Gamerlingual said:


> Nope. They won’t shatter your hearing. You’ll be ok


So, I went to the Audio Technica Flagship Store in Singapore and gave the ATH-AWKT a try. I see what you mean. But gosh! It has been a while since a transparent, airy and nuanced pair of cans have been so enjoyable since the HD800S, Susvara. I do look forward to listening to it on my home rig.


----------



## Woodlands

StephanSchiller said:


> Is it possible to connect the WM1Z with a cable to the usb-b Port as well?
> Directly without the Cradle? WM Port to usb-b


Sony offered this cable for pre-USB-C Walkmans: WMC-NWH10 (‘A’ in the diagram below ).


----------



## StephanSchiller

Woodlands said:


> Sony offered this cable for pre-USB-C Walkmans: WMC-NWH10 (‘A’ in the diagram below ).




Yes, but it is hard to find an online Shop to buy.


----------



## Vamp898

StephanSchiller said:


> Yes, but it is hard to find an online Shop to buy.


You can get it in Japan, but other than that, it's going to get complicated


----------



## SubL0ck

Hi guys. I think i have already asked this question before but didn't get an asnwer, so here we go again.
I'm thinking about purchasing GS-X Mini to hook it up to TA via RCA. What do you think? Worth it?


----------



## Woodlands

StephanSchiller said:


> Yes, but it is hard to find an online Shop to buy.


Many available on a popular online auction site. Most shipping from Japan, and some with sane shipping prices.


----------



## Vamp898

Woodlands said:


> Many available on a popular online auction site. Most shipping from Japan, and some with sane shipping prices.


Use an forwarding service. Don't of someone else to import it for you, it's too easy to just import yourself

Checkout tenso and buyee


----------



## StephanSchiller

Vamp898 said:


> Use an forwarding service. Don't of someone else to import it for you, it's too easy to just import yourself
> 
> Checkout tenso and buyee



Do you have more Informationen about the forwarding Service?


----------



## Vamp898

StephanSchiller said:


> Do you have more Informationen about the forwarding Service?


You register there, get an Japanese address and use that to shop in Japan.

Everything that gets send to that Japanese address will be forwarded to your real address


----------



## StephanSchiller

Vamp898 said:


> You register there, get an Japanese address and use that to shop in Japan.
> 
> Everything that gets send to that Japanese address will be forwarded to your real address


Thank you


----------



## Hinomotocho (Jun 15, 2022)

StephanSchiller said:


> Thank you


Zenmarket is another option, I've use once, for the WMC-NWH10 actually, and was satisfied with their service.
I've seen a picture somewhere on these threads with a WM-Port to USB-B cable, possibly from AliExpress.
* found it:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...84cb11e924de3b78146eb21a8d167&ck=in_edm_other


----------



## davidmthekidd

Hey Guys! question, does the Taz require USB 2.0 or 3.0? I bought a Audioquest Cinamon cable for my taz, USB b - USB C, and its USB 2.0. I would like to know of that would be a problem, speed wise.


----------



## WiseRooster

davidmthekidd said:


> Hey Guys! question, does the Taz require USB 2.0 or 3.0? I bought a Audioquest Cinamon cable for my taz, USB b - USB C, and its USB 2.0. I would like to know of that would be a problem, speed wise.


You have made the right choice 👂
Enjoy


----------



## The1Signature

davidmthekidd said:


> Hey Guys! question, does the Taz require USB 2.0 or 3.0? I bought a Audioquest Cinamon cable for my taz, USB b - USB C, and its USB 2.0. I would like to know of that would be a problem, speed wise.


no worries. we all have the same cable. you don't need the ultra fast speed of usb 3.0 for playing music and shifting files via the dap / transporter to the dac / amp.


----------



## Vamp898

davidmthekidd said:


> Hey Guys! question, does the Taz require USB 2.0 or 3.0? I bought a Audioquest Cinamon cable for my taz, USB b - USB C, and its USB 2.0. I would like to know of that would be a problem, speed wise.


USB2 is totally fine


----------



## VancityDreaming

SubL0ck said:


> Hi guys. I think i have already asked this question before but didn't get an asnwer, so here we go again.
> I'm thinking about purchasing GS-X Mini to hook it up to TA via RCA. What do you think? Worth it?


I think @Whitigir connects his to a tube amp. Depends on what headphones you have I guess would be the real answer


----------



## Nicolas Yance

VancityDreaming said:


> I think @Whitigir connects his to a tube amp. Depends on what headphones you have I guess would be the real answer


Me too, I only use my TA as a dac.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Nicolas Yance said:


> Me too, I only use my TA as a dac.


Is the dac in Taz that good? As opposed to other stand alone options.


----------



## Nicolas Yance

davidmthekidd said:


> Is the dac in Taz that good? As opposed to other stand alone options.


I can't answer that, the only other dac I've listened to is a Magni 2 Uber. I was thinking of getting a Lampizator dac to have a fully tube system.


----------



## The1Signature

davidmthekidd said:


> Is the dac in Taz that good? As opposed to other stand alone options.


i asked myself the same question. what more experienced people will tell you that sony gives its own signature in the d-a process.

however, technically speaking, having a solo dac like the pontus ii or a burson composer should do a "better / cleaner job" as far as my colleagues who own the pontus / buson as well as the taz.


----------



## endless402

davidmthekidd said:


> Is the dac in Taz that good? As opposed to other stand alone options.


It’s more about synergy with your headphones. It’s not as detailed and fast as my Hugo 2, but it has a warmer mid and slightly more bass slam. 
But when you pair the zh1es with z1r, the musical engagement is off the charts!


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 15, 2022)

davidmthekidd said:


> Is the dac in Taz that good? As opposed to other stand alone options.


TA is amazingly engineered, especially for S-Master HX as a DAC.  There is no other better S-Master HX at the moments.  The TA has a lot of potentials for upgrades and so on .  On my upgraded TA, it can easily be on the DAVE level if not better.  But that is just my opinions alone


----------



## Vamp898

Whitigir said:


> TA is amazingly engineered, especially for S-Master HX as a DAC.  There is no other better S-Master HX at the moments.  The TA has a lot of potentials for upgrades and so on .  On my upgraded TA, it can easily be on the DAVE level if not better.  But that is just my opinions alone


In my experience, the stock TA-ZH1ES is already at that level  but I'm not a big fan of the Dave so that's taken with a grain of salt


----------



## The1Signature

Vamp898 said:


> This is an extremely complicated topic and most vendors don't tell you much.
> 
> The by far biggest influence on the sound is by the capacitors.
> 
> ...


thank you so much. i saved this post in my evernote.

but i have to admit: although i love music, i do lack the technical knowledge you have. i would like to go deeper into this topic to understand each component and its interlinkages. but i do not know where to start to get structured knowledge about it.


----------



## Vamp898

The1Signature said:


> thank you so much. i saved this post in my evernote.
> 
> but i have to admit: although i love music, i do lack the technical knowledge you have. i would like to go deeper into this topic to understand each component and its interlinkages. but i do not know where to start to get structured knowledge about it.


My knowledge is only scratching the surface.

My recommendation: you have the best already. Enjoy it and invest your time into finding new music you'll love. Maybe get an BluRay Player, some nice live BluRay and/or DVD and enjoy them with the MDR-Z1R

It's not going to get any better anytime soon. So it's not worth caring that much. That is the boring answer most people don't like, but it's an honest one. Never forget to enjoy and appreciate what you already have.

Most people would die for your setup, it's something they can only dream off.


----------



## tradyblix (Jun 16, 2022)

davidmthekidd said:


> Is the dac in Taz that good? As opposed to other stand alone options.



Yeah, I think that it is. If you have heard a lot of high end Sony audio devices, like the DAPs they have, it's a bit better than most of those that I've heard but similar. People have said it's a Sony house sound, but I think it's a bit more refined than usual.

It is a little bit for me on the laid back and warm side tho, compared to something colder like Chord. I think the Chord Hugo 2 is the best dac I've ever heard, so I'm pretty much a fan of theirs and prefer to use the Hugo 2 as my dac and pipe the analog out of it into the Tazzy and then use the Tazzy's superior amp circuitry to amplify it.

I resisted doing it for a long time because I didn't like the idea of re-digitizing an analog input since it doesn't seem like a good idea and or the cleanest way, but my ears don't lie. It definitely sounds the best compared to using the Tazzy's dac or the Hugo2's amp. So I trust my ears. It warms up the Hugo2 a lot and sometimes I like the Hugo2 alone, but it's amp circuitry, while quite powerful for a portable, isn't like how the Tazzy makes things sound. It's a good combo.

Also it's pretty weird in that most amps don't do what this amp does, in fact maybe no other amp does it, not sure. It's a cool feature of the TA, although the display of DSD 11.2 Mhz -> DSD 11.2Mhz is kind of puzzling when I do this, since the input is analog, but I guess when they engineered it they didn't have a way to say the input is analog so they just repeated the DSD ? I'm not sure on that, but it's not the question you asked. Also technically the max input is 2vrms and the Hugo2 outputs 3vrms in line out mode but it doesn't seem to be a problem.

I feel like the Hugo2's dac in comparison has better pace rhythm and timing and has something special going on. Anyone that has used Chord knows what's up there.
But the Tazzy's DAC is no slouch and some might even prefer it as it's a lot more chill and relaxed vs analytical. There's no edgy pain points like with some delta-sigma dacs. It's good with headphones that skew bright, like the Focal Utopia and the HD800, and to a lesser extent the Arya Stealth Magnets version. So yeah. that's my 2 cents based on my experiences.

As far as other recent dacs I use, It's better than the Dac in the A105, it's better than the DAC in the PHA3, it's better than the apple dongle, and it's better than everything else I've heard thats portable and wireless like the Sony WF-1000XM4. And it's better than other cheap dacs like the ifi stuff I've heard, sabre based dacs like the dragonflies, etc.  But there are lot of expensive and boutique Dacs on the market and I haven't heard most of them, things like Holo Audio May and Spring 3 and Burson Conductor and all kinds of other stuff in the 1 to 2000 price range+, so those might be better, not sure.


----------



## The1Signature

Vamp898 said:


> My knowledge is only scratching the surface.
> 
> My recommendation: you have the best already. Enjoy it and invest your time into finding new music you'll love. Maybe get an BluRay Player, some nice live BluRay and/or DVD and enjoy them with the MDR-Z1R
> 
> ...


i absolutely agree with your points.

however, it is just out of curiosity that i would like to understand the function and interrelation of the parts of a dap in a more structured way.


----------



## jirams

Vamp898 said:


> ……………………
> 
> *Most people would die for your setup*, it's something they can only dream off.


Not much use to them then.


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 16, 2022)

tradyblix said:


> Yeah, I think that it is. If you have heard a lot of high end Sony audio devices, like the DAPs they have, it's a bit better than most of those that I've heard but similar. People have said it's a Sony house sound, but I think it's a bit more refined than usual.
> 
> It is a little bit for me on the laid back and warm side tho, compared to something colder like Chord. I think the Chord Hugo 2 is the best dac I've ever heard, so I'm pretty much a fan of theirs and prefer to use the Hugo 2 as my dac and pipe the analog out of it into the Tazzy and then use the Tazzy's superior amp circuitry to amplify it.
> 
> ...


Transients responses! This is where I aimed to further improve TAZ.   There is Sony house sound, and there is that slower transients that Sony wanted.  It could have been audio engineerings intentions or executive intentions, we don’t know.  But the potentials are always there, you just need to push it


----------



## gLer

Whitigir said:


> Transients responses! This is where I aimed to further improve TAZ.   There is Sony house sound, and there is that slower transients that Sony wanted.  It could have been audio engineerings intentions or executive intentions, we don’t know.  But the potentials are always there, you just need to push it


Seems to me you're tweaking it towards your preferences, rather than making it 'better' (although by definition your preferences are better for you lol). 

Faster transients, reduced bass...this is pushing the warmer, slower Sony sound towards a faster, cooler, more 'reference' tuning. I know you like the sound of the brighter/faster N8ii, so I suppose you're tweaking the Taz in that direction? 

My personal preference is to leave it exactly how it is, which to my ears is just about _perfect_.


----------



## Whitigir (Jun 16, 2022)

gLer said:


> Seems to me you're tweaking it towards your preferences, rather than making it 'better' (although by definition your preferences are better for you lol).
> 
> Faster transients, reduced bass...this is pushing the warmer, slower Sony sound towards a faster, cooler, more 'reference' tuning. I know you like the sound of the brighter/faster N8ii, so I suppose you're tweaking the Taz in that direction?
> 
> My personal preference is to leave it exactly how it is, which to my ears is just about _perfect_.


Of course it is, my preferences is built upon my experiences over the journey from both DIY and listening through different devices

Better is a subjective terms in all of us .  The same goes for audio engineering and tunings.

*But better on technicalities is an objective term and parameter, which I improved TAZ.  There is no question about it

FE,* Hugo 2 is a portable devices, technically it is inferior to TAZ.  But how does both get designed is the question.  The same as DAVE, using switching supplies is inferior to Linear PSU on the TAZ.  But that don’t meant TAZ is better than them.  Technically, it is, but subjectively, the sound may not be.  *What I improved with TAZ is the technicality, and on top of that, a tuning to my preferences (2 separate mods)*

No, better transients doesn’t meant less bass.  Definitely not. Could even be more


----------



## gLer

Whitigir said:


> No, better transients doesn’t meant less bass. Definitely not


Yes I know, but you've said in the past how you find Taz and/or MDR-Z1R a bit too bassy, so I was just making that point. Glad you're able to tweak it so effectively. I wouldn't have a clue! 😅


----------



## Whitigir

gLer said:


> Yes I know, but you've said in the past how you find Taz and/or MDR-Z1R a bit too bassy, so I was just making that point. Glad you're able to tweak it so effectively. I wouldn't have a clue! 😅


That is in comparison to a reference point, yes.  For example to hd800s
But on the other hand, I also enjoy that signature as well


----------



## endless402

tradyblix said:


> It is a little bit for me on the laid back and warm side tho, compared to something colder like Chord. I think the Chord Hugo 2 is the best dac I've ever heard, so I'm pretty much a fan of theirs and prefer to use the Hugo 2 as my dac and pipe the analog out of it into the Tazzy and then use the Tazzy's superior amp circuitry to amplify it.
> 
> I resisted doing it for a long time because I didn't like the idea of re-digitizing an analog input since it doesn't seem like a good idea and or the cleanest way, but my ears don't lie. It definitely sounds the best compared to using the Tazzy's dac or the Hugo2's amp. So I trust my ears. It warms up the Hugo2 a lot and sometimes I like the Hugo2 alone, but it's amp circuitry, while quite powerful for a portable, isn't like how the Tazzy makes things sound. It's a good combo.
> 
> ...


I thought the analog input isn't really analog since it goes through a conversion process on the tazzy


----------



## nc8000

endless402 said:


> I thought the analog input isn't really analog since it goes through a conversion process on the tazzy


The input is analog but the signal gets immediately converted to digital


----------



## Gamerlingual

Vamp898 said:


> My knowledge is only scratching the surface.
> 
> My recommendation: you have the best already. Enjoy it and invest your time into finding new music you'll love. Maybe get an BluRay Player, some nice live BluRay and/or DVD and enjoy them with the MDR-Z1R
> 
> ...


Perhaps I’m in that category and don’t really see it


----------



## Whitigir

nc8000 said:


> The input is analog but the signal gets immediately converted to digital


This is exactly it, the analog input get converts by AKM chip and upto DSD256.  Then it get processed by S-Master.

The best way to listen to TAZ is using the best digital source instead of analog

Then the cleanest signals is from preamp output


----------



## davidmthekidd

Whitigir said:


> This is exactly it, the analog input get converts by AKM chip and upto DSD256.  Then it get processed by S-Master.
> 
> The best way to listen to TAZ is using the best digital source instead of analog
> 
> Then the cleanest signals is from preamp output


Whitigir,

The other day, I hooked up my Klipsch powered speakers to the taz via pre-amp out (USB B Rear), I noticed a lot of buzzing and a slight his whenever I set the pre amp to Variable specially if I move the mouse of my PC; the noise goes away if I switch it to fixed, any thoughts?


----------



## tradyblix (Jun 16, 2022)

endless402 said:


> I thought the analog input isn't really analog since it goes through a conversion process on the tazzy



You can choose in the Tazzy's settings which digitial input format you want. It does force re-digitizing an analog signal before amplification, there's no way around that on the Tazzy. But it's still an analog input. The Hugo 2 is a DAC, so the entire purpose of it is to output an analog signal, and in "line out" mode it skips the Hugo2's amp stage. On paper, this isn't ideal because it's a lossy operation, you've already decoded once and now you're re-encoding again.

When you do this tho, the DSEE HX light and the DSD Re light don't stay on, even tho you can have them "on" in the settings, which is different from when you have a digital input and the Tazzy's dac does the decoding.

So although it has to re-digitize it before amplification, (I use DSD 11.2) It does seem to act as a straight digital amp in this situation without further processing once that is done.

It sounds like a nightmare when discussing it, but it actually sounds really good in real life.  I don't notice any loss of quality even when comparing to the digital in chain on Tazzy. And I get my Hugo2 sound with a warmer tone and a nice volume control.

I do use a very expensive and nice silver plated RCA cable when doing this, so that might help. But then some people don't believe cables make a difference so we don't need to go there 

Moral of the story is, it's worth experimenting with your gear. Don't be afraid to try just in case you discover a nice synergy. Even if it's not the "optimal" way on paper.

To me, it says a lot about the engineering on the Tazzy that the analog RCA inputs aren't just an afterthought.


----------



## Whitigir

davidmthekidd said:


> Whitigir,
> 
> The other day, I hooked up my Klipsch powered speakers to the taz via pre-amp out (USB B Rear), I noticed a lot of buzzing and a slight his whenever I set the pre amp to Variable specially if I move the mouse of my PC; the noise goes away if I switch it to fixed, any thoughts?


You may have experienced ground loops.  The klipsch has rca input got line and phono together, not sure if there is a ground lift within itself.  Using single Ended can create ground loops easily.

Sometimes the cables with mismatching impedance will also cause ground loops problems as well


----------



## jirams

I am using my TA ZH1ES  in a new configuration and thoroughly enjoying the result.

Qobuz into Roon 

Chord 2Go as Roon end point.

2Go into 2Yu into Digital Coax of TA.

Into Senn HD800s or Sony Z1R via XLR balanced out.

I tried feeding TA analog in, some time back, from Qutest DAC but was never convinced of the logic or sound using this setup. The internal digital conversion never made sense to me.

I now rate the TA DAC as outstanding.


----------



## The1Signature

jirams said:


> I am using my TA ZH1ES  in a new configuration and thoroughly enjoying the result.
> 
> Qobuz into Roon
> 
> ...


welcome to the club. the same for me. i have it relatively new and enjoy every moment with it.


----------



## gLer

jirams said:


> I am using my TA ZH1ES  in a new configuration and thoroughly enjoying the result.
> 
> Qobuz into Roon
> 
> ...


Speaking of new configurations, I promised to report back here as soon as I found a way to turn Taz into a wireless streamer. Success! 





This little puck arrived at my doorstep today. I managed to find a sealed-in-box Chromecast Audio on eBay, and despite the fact that it cost me $50 more than its original $35 retail price, I can happily report it's an absolute _steal_ for the money, if you can find one. 

I've been testing it for the past few hours, switching between 24/96 optical input and Walkman USB input with the IER-Z1R, and I have to say, if there's a difference in SQ between the two, I can't hear it. 

Anyone concerned that CA via optical would be too jittery, fear not. It's _absolutely not_. Well, it may be on an oscilloscope, but if there's any sound degradation due to jitter, it's well beyond my hearing range. 

Now, instead of relying on my WM1Z as source, I can simply fire up Tidal or Plex on my phone, and have full access to lossless wireless digital streaming, or DLNA access to my entire music library. 

Sure, it's not a full hi-res streamer, in that CA doesn't support DSD (or bitrates over 24/96), but that really doesn't matter. If I must listen to DSDs or super hi-res files, I'll just pop them on my Walkman. 

So, if anyone wants to add lossless streaming to Taz, go hunt down a Chromecast Audio. I'm thinking I might get a second one as spare, seeing they're already as rare as hen's teeth. Definitely better SQ than Bluetooth, even LDAC.


----------



## jirams

I tried this with Neet streaming gadget. It worked but was a faff to get connected to my network each time.


----------



## VancityDreaming

Just got my TA. Using wm1a as a transport, defs sounds better than tidal master streamed off my phone. 

I think I've reached my end game with IER-Z1R and TA-ZH1ES. Stayed up until 2am listening to music. Too addicting to stop.


----------



## askeladden

Roland P said:


> I would like to see a matching cd player.


Had this thing in my posession a short while ago.


----------



## endless402

VancityDreaming said:


> Just got my TA. Using wm1a as a transport, defs sounds better than tidal master streamed off my phone.
> 
> I think I've reached my end game with IER-Z1R and TA-ZH1ES. Stayed up until 2am listening to music. Too addicting to stop.


It’s an ear opening experience for sure. Unmatched level of engagement


----------



## davidmthekidd

TAZ is so much fun, I use it daily for work 10am-8pm nonestop lol


----------



## tradyblix (Jun 17, 2022)

jirams said:


> I am using my TA ZH1ES  in a new configuration and thoroughly enjoying the result.
> 
> Qobuz into Roon
> 
> ...



In this setup you're just using the Tazzy's DAC. Roon sends digital, undecoded info from Qobuz unchanged into the 2go/2yu streamer and that goes into the digital coax (it's digital - not yet decoded) and the Tazzy's DAC does the actual digital to analog conversion. The shortest, least complex signal path is usually - but not always - the best.

The only reason to use the Tazzy as a digital amp only is if you have a better DAC, and it's either a pure DAC or a dac/amp with an amp section that isn't better than Tazzy's amp. Probably I would think that the Qutest is a better DAC than the Tazzy, so I'd probably be using it, but it might be a matter of taste for you.

I mean the Qutest as a DAC alone is about the same price as the entire TA itself, which has a lot more hardware cost and components. It's numbers are absolutely stellar at *THD:* <0.0001% 1kHz 3v RMS 300Ω and *THD and noise at 3v RMS:* 117dB at 1kHz 300ohms ‘A’ weighted (reference 2.5v). Hell, that's something that's going to sound really really good, even if it was re-captured as quad data rate DSD.

In some analog amp situations, an analog in would just be passed through as an analog signal, (like in the case of a tube amp) and it would be amplified that way. 

However, due to the design of the D.A Hybrid Amplifier Circuit in this amp, it requires analog inputs to be digitized again. This isn't really typical and you can be forgiven for thinking it's probably not optimal, but I want to tell everyone that Sony did a really good job if you have a reason to use this type of signal path with the amplifier.

If you were just to look at numbers, Analog amps can't perform on paper anywhere close to a digital amp or even a hybrid amp design like the TA. But some people pay thousands of dollars for the top ones because people don't mind if there's some distortion in their output as long as it's the right kind of distortion, lol.

Always use what sounds best to you tho, not what you think *should* be the best. The TA's DAC has it's own character, for sure. I just don't think it's quite as good as what Chord does. But it's really a matter of taste. I switch back and forth all the time myself. It's as simple as changing my output on Tidal from Hugo2 to TA-ZH1ES and moving the input from Analog to USB.


----------



## The1Signature

VancityDreaming said:


> Just got my TA. Using wm1a as a transport, defs sounds better than tidal master streamed off my phone.
> 
> I think I've reached my end game with IER-Z1R and TA-ZH1ES. Stayed up until 2am listening to music. Too addicting to stop.


same for me my friend. it is such a great device!

but having this on the table like...


davidmthekidd said:


> TAZ is so much fun, I use it daily for work 10am-8pm nonestop lol



... feels amazing during the day and wish i could use it during my work. but the sound is so good, that i simply get lost in moments where i need full focus and concentration.


----------



## Kiats

VancityDreaming said:


> Just got my TA. Using wm1a as a transport, defs sounds better than tidal master streamed off my phone.
> 
> I think I've reached my end game with IER-Z1R and TA-ZH1ES. Stayed up until 2am listening to music. Too addicting to stop.


Ooh… need to find time to try this combination out.


----------



## Kiats

Giving the LCD3 a run out with the TAZ. Streaming input from the iBasso DX300 as digital transport. Coaxial into the TAZ.


----------



## endless402

VancityDreaming said:


> Just got my TA. Using wm1a as a transport, defs sounds better than tidal master streamed off my phone.
> 
> I think I've reached my end game with IER-Z1R and TA-ZH1ES. Stayed up until 2am listening to music. Too addicting to stop.


Any special cables being used? Power or usb wise


----------



## nc8000 (Jun 19, 2022)

Had a chance to try the DMP in the Sony Store in Berlin with my IER-Z1R but was not allowed to put my own memory card into it so could only try the 50 tracks that were loaded none of which I’m familiar with and all were pop/rock. It’s indeed a lovely piece of kit but based on that far from ideal audition it certainly didn’t blow me away so I’m happily sticking with my Auralic plus TA.


----------



## gLer

It never ceases to amaze me how sometimes the smallest, simplest and (often) least expensive devices are disproportionately valuable in this hobby. This little guy is easily one of the best audio purchases I've made to date, at any price. I've only had it for a few days, and it's already paid for itself ten times over. How easily basic yet advanced functionality like this can be baked into each and every DAC worth its salt nowadays.


----------



## Kiats

nc8000 said:


> Had a chance to try the DMP in the Sony Store in Berlin with my IER-Z1R but was not allowed to put my own memory card into it so could only try the 50 tracks that were loaded none of which I’m familiar with and all were pop/rock. It’s indeed a lovely piece of kit but based on that far from ideal audition it certainly didn’t blow me away so I’m happily sticking with my Auralic plus TA.


I think it ultimately depends on whether you like the difference in tonality between the DMP and the TAZ and your use cases.


----------



## Kiats

gLer said:


> ​It never ceases to amaze me how sometimes the smallest, simplest and (often) least expensive devices are disproportionately valuable in this hobby. This little guy is easily one of the best audio purchases I've made to date, at any price. I've only had it for a few days, and it's already paid for itself ten times over. How easily basic yet advanced functionality like this can be baked into each and every DAC worth its salt nowadays.


Quick question: how do you connect the Chromecast Audio device to the TAZ?


----------



## nc8000

Kiats said:


> I think it ultimately depends on whether you like the difference in tonality between the DMP and the TAZ and your use cases.


I would probably have needed a longer audition and with music I’m familiar with to make a fair comparison. My use case is exclusively bed side rig for home listening


----------



## gLer (Jun 19, 2022)

Kiats said:


> Quick question: how do you connect the Chromecast Audio device to the TAZ?


Via optical. It supports the full 24/96 bandwidth of Taz's optical input. You just need to buy a separate optical cable with a 3.5mm optical adapter on the one end. And because it uses Wi-Fi, there's no lossy compression on the digital transfer from source (Tidal, Plex, UAPP etc.) to the Taz.


----------



## Kiats

gLer said:


> Via optical. It supports the full 24/96 bandwidth of Taz's optical input. You just need to buy a separate optical cable with a 3.5mm optical adapter on the one end. And because it uses Wi-Fi, there's no lossy compression on the digital transfer from source (Tidal, Plex, UAPP etc.) to the Taz.


Ah OK. Thanks! Yes, you have mentioned optical before. But I just saw a 3.5mm output. Forgetting that the AK DAPs use the same connector for optical out. Thanks!


----------



## VancityDreaming

endless402 said:


> Any special cables being used? Power or usb wise


Nope. Everything stock, connected the walkman with the stock wmport to micro usb cable that came with the TA. It charges my wm1a while connected which is perfect.

Then TA with IER-Z1R with the stock balanced cable. I don't have the trained ears to justify the additional costs of expensive cables unfortunately. 

Mountains by Hans Zimmer is phenomenal. Got me smiling like an idiot when the crescendo hits.


----------



## nc8000

Kiats said:


> Ah OK. Thanks! Yes, you have mentioned optical before. But I just saw a 3.5mm output. Forgetting that the AK DAPs use the same connector for optical out. Thanks!


Sony also used 3.5 optical on many of their cd Walkmen (I used it for travel rig with the first iBasso portable dac/amp) and my old Acer AspirOne 11” netbook (that I used as source with foobar before getting the Auralic) also had 3.5 optical out


----------



## Redcarmoose

VancityDreaming said:


> Just got my TA. Using wm1a as a transport, defs sounds better than tidal master streamed off my phone.
> 
> I think I've reached my end game with IER-Z1R and TA-ZH1ES. Stayed up until 2am listening to music. Too addicting to stop.


Congratulations!


----------



## Gamerlingual

VancityDreaming said:


> Just got my TA. Using wm1a as a transport, defs sounds better than tidal master streamed off my phone.
> 
> I think I've reached my end game with IER-Z1R and TA-ZH1ES. Stayed up until 2am listening to music. Too addicting to stop.


Here I thought the DMP-Z1 was end game. But I just can’t get impressed with the sound since the TA and WM1Z have been wonderful marvels.  Not taking anything away from the DMP, but I need to realize myself that what I have now is enough. Digging down that rabbit hole is deadly


----------



## VancityDreaming

Gamerlingual said:


> Here I thought the DMP-Z1 was end game. But I just can’t get impressed with the sound since the TA and WM1Z have been wonderful marvels.  Not taking anything away from the DMP, but I need to realize myself that what I have now is enough. Digging down that rabbit hole is deadly


Definitely a rabbit hole, but thats what we all seem to love here haha. I got hd600, ier-z1r, TA, and WM1A. Can comfortably walk away now. If i was to buy anything else. It would probably be Sony's next flagship headphones or focal utopias.


----------



## Vamp898

VancityDreaming said:


> Definitely a rabbit hole, but thats what we all seem to love here haha. I got hd600, ier-z1r, TA, and WM1A. Can comfortably walk away now. If i was to buy anything else. It would probably be Sony's next flagship headphones or focal utopias.


Seeing how aggresively Sony advertised the MDR-Z1R with the new Walkman, i don't expect a new flagship soon.


----------



## Gamerlingual

VancityDreaming said:


> Definitely a rabbit hole, but thats what we all seem to love here haha. I got hd600, ier-z1r, TA, and WM1A. Can comfortably walk away now. If i was to buy anything else. It would probably be Sony's next flagship headphones or focal utopias.


The Utopia are good. But the MDR-Z1R are better. Whatever you decide, enjoy!


----------



## Kiats

All the talk about the Utopia vs the MDR sort of reminded me that I should give the MDR a run out with the TAZ. I only had a cursory listen previously.


----------



## VancityDreaming

Kiats said:


> All the talk about the Utopia vs the MDR sort of reminded me that I should give the MDR a run out with the TAZ. I only had a cursory listen previously.


Would love to know your thoughts.


----------



## gLer

Kiats said:


> All the talk about the Utopia vs the MDR sort of reminded me that I should give the MDR a run out with the TAZ. I only had a cursory listen previously.


I've just done that exact matchup this past weekend. Will await your thoughts and follow with mine.


----------



## Kiats

My initial thoughts listening to Roon streaming via the Melco N10P into the TAZ: the MDR actually has great synergy with the TAZ. I initially thought that the warmth of the TAZ X the warmth of the MDR would mean that it would be sticky thick. Actually, I am finding myself enjoying The Look of Love, Burt Bacharach Songbook, by Trijntje Oosterhuis. One of my all time favourites. Although the sub bass of the MDR is ever present, I don’t think it overwhelms the vocals, the strings, the percussion or the wind instruments.

Whilst I will say that the Utopia is unsurprisingly more transparent, and therefore seems more dynamic whilst giving the TAZ full play of its fuller and more musical character, I cannot say that I would give up the MDR. Especially now that in South East Asia, stock of the MDR is starting to be really difficult to come by. 

I will just say that I am a lucky boy…


----------



## Kiats

This is what I am listening to. But on Roon. Gorgeous music!


----------



## davidmthekidd

Wanted to ask, do we know any further info on the different profiles of DSEEHX on Taz? Such as Percussion vs standard, or even which profiles suits jazz and classical best?


----------



## kefs

davidmthekidd said:


> Wanted to ask, do we know any further info on the different profiles of DSEEHX on Taz? Such as Percussion vs standard, or even which profiles suits jazz and classical best?


Personally i turn all the options off, to me it takes the 'life' out of performances, it may sound 'cleaner' but ambiance around instruments is quashed. Imho


----------



## StephanSchiller

Do i need a special cable to connect my WM1Z to the TA?
I used the WMPort to USB-A and an adapter from USB-A to MicroUSB. But it does not work.


----------



## nc8000

StephanSchiller said:


> Do i need a special cable to connect my WM1Z to the TA?
> I used the WMPort to USB-A and an adapter from USB-A to MicroUSB. But it does not work.


You should use the cable that is included with the TA


----------



## StephanSchiller

nc8000 said:


> You should use the cable that is included with the TA



I dont have that cable ☹️


----------



## nc8000

StephanSchiller said:


> I dont have that cable ☹️


Sony also have wmport cable that you can then connect a standard usb a to b cable to and then use the rear port of the TA


----------



## StephanSchiller

Yes, i will try to get one of this. its hard to find in germany


----------



## jirams

I have been using the Pre Out on the TA to drive an external amp (Stax Energizer).  This is first time I have used this output and notice that there are relay clicks from the TA when there is any interruption to the input signal to TA such as pauses or between album tracks.  What is going on? Is the TA muting the Pre Out or something else?
I find these clicks are a bit irritating even though they don’t occur during actual music. I am using the Digital Coax input from a Chord 2Go2Yu.


----------



## davidmthekidd

jirams said:


> I have been using the Pre Out on the TA to drive an external amp (Stax Energizer).  This is first time I have used this output and notice that there are relay clicks from the TA when there is any interruption to the input signal to TA such as pauses or between album tracks.  What is going on? Is the TA muting the Pre Out or something else?
> I find these clicks are a bit irritating even though they don’t occur during actual music. I am using the Digital Coax input from a Chord 2Go2Yu.


Yep, I get that too.


----------



## Woodlands

jirams said:


> I have been using the Pre Out on the TA to drive an external amp (Stax Energizer).  This is first time I have used this output and notice that there are relay clicks from the TA when there is any interruption to the input signal to TA such as pauses or between album tracks.  What is going on? Is the TA muting the Pre Out or something else?
> I find these clicks are a bit irritating even though they don’t occur during actual music. I am using the Digital Coax input from a Chord 2Go2Yu.


I use the optical input (from a Sony CD player) with the pre out (fixed) and there are no clicks between the tracks. Only when I turn on/off the CD player does the TA relay click. And ditto for when I use the USB-B input from a MacBook Pro: no relay clicks between the tracks. Could it be the Chord causing this?  Trying with a CD player would determine if this your TA or the Chord.


----------



## Whitigir

I use my DAP into usb B and has no such issues


----------



## Kiats

Whitigir said:


> I use my DAP into usb B and has no such issues


Not tried using DAPs Into USB for a while now. Will try one day. I’ve only been using the DX300 Spdif out into the coaxial in.


----------



## Kiats

Woodlands said:


> I use the optical input (from a Sony CD player) with the pre out (fixed) and there are no clicks between the tracks. Only when I turn on/off the CD player does the TA relay click. And ditto for when I use the USB-B input from a MacBook Pro: no relay clicks between the tracks. Could it be the Chord causing this?  Trying with a CD player would determine if this your TA or the Chord.


I have been using my MacMini (as Roon core) USB-B into the TAZ with no issues. Though I have yet to try the TAZ as a pre out into my other amps. Will do so when I get home in a few days. Certainly would love to hear the synergy with the KGSSHV Carbon and the Stax headphones.


----------



## tradyblix

I just hooked up my long unused Project Ember Tube Amp to the TA's Output to see if I could hear this issue. I didn't have any issues like this between tracks. Using Fixed Pre amp out to the Tube Amp.


----------



## Kiats

tradyblix said:


> I just hooked up my long unused Project Ember Tube Amp to the TA's Output to see if I could hear this issue. I didn't have any issues like this between tracks. Using Fixed Pre amp out to the Tube Amp.


Nice! Not tried the pre amp out function on the TAZ yet.  But what is the difference between fixed and otherwise? Ability to control volume? SQ wise, is it the same?


----------



## tradyblix

Kiats said:


> Nice! Not tried the pre amp out function on the TAZ yet.  But what is the difference between fixed and otherwise? Ability to control volume? SQ wise, is it the same?



Yeah I want the volume control at the tube amp only.


----------



## jirams

My comments on relay clicking do not depend on which input is selected.
It only occurs when Pre Out output is selected.


----------



## Whitigir

Kiats said:


> Nice! Not tried the pre amp out function on the TAZ yet.  But what is the difference between fixed and otherwise? Ability to control volume? SQ wise, is it the same?


It is the same, the signals goes through the electrical volume controls from the TAZ regardless , because it is implemented after the input buffer stage, which is before preamp, and amp stage.  It depends on many situations but in this set up toward a tube amp (I know people like to adjust their amp volume as a normal thing to do, and so do I), the best to use it is actually to max out the amp volume AKA by passing the amp volume pot, and then adjusting the sound with the TAZ as a preamp (*the TAZ is literally built as a Preamp and not a Line Out source*)


----------



## tradyblix (Jun 26, 2022)

jirams said:


> My comments on relay clicking do not depend on which input is selected.
> It only occurs when Pre Out output is selected.


Are you using fixed or variable output in the TA settings ? Maybe that's your issue ?

Seems obvious, but you should output a fixed signal if you're using it as a proper pre-amp signal and amplifiying it afterwards.

Otherwise, there is a problem with your TA unit because I don't hear anything like that. Unless it has to do with the equipment on the other end, did you try different equipment on the other end and see if it's TA related ?

What software are you using to output ? Are you using exclusive mode ? we need more details to help


----------



## tradyblix

Whitigir said:


> It is the same, the signals goes through the electrical volume controls from the TAZ regardless , because it is implemented after the input buffer stage, which is before preamp, and amp stage.  It depends on many situations but in this set up toward a tube amp (I know people like to adjust their amp volume as a normal thing to do, and so do I), the best to use it is actually to max out the amp volume AKA by passing the amp volume pot, and then adjusting the sound with the TAZ as a preamp (*the TAZ is literally built as a Preamp and not a Line Out source*)



I prefer not to do it this way only because i really like the volume pot on my tube amp more  All about them volume pot feels lol


----------



## Whitigir

tradyblix said:


> I prefer not to do it this way only because i really like the volume pot on my tube amp more  All about them volume pot feels lol


Oh for sure! Especially if it is an RK50 from Alps


----------



## Kiats

Guess what arrived today? 

@gLer Quick Q: when I do a chromecast from my DX300 whether it be Tidal or Apple Music, it only casts at PCM 44.1 kHz. Should I be expecting a higher resolution or is this right?


----------



## endless402

Kiats said:


> Guess what arrived today?
> 
> @gLer Quick Q: when I do a chromecast from my DX300 whether it be Tidal or Apple Music, it only casts at PCM 44.1 kHz. Should I be expecting a higher resolution or is this right?


It would be 41 and 48 on tidal with mqa passthrough on, depending on the song of course. 
88 and 96 if your device does the first unfold


----------



## Kiats

endless402 said:


> It would be 41 and 48 on tidal with mqa passthrough on, depending on the song of course.
> 88 and 96 if your device does the first unfold


Hmm... the dX300 doesn't seem to do any unfold for Chromecast


----------



## Vamp898

Kiats said:


> Hmm... the dX300 doesn't seem to do any unfold for Chromecast


Consider yourself lucky, the unfolding actually worsens the quality by introducing audible noise.


----------



## endless402

Kiats said:


> Hmm... the dX300 doesn't seem to do any unfold for Chromecast


then it's prob running on hifi quality, not master. so you'll get 41 and 48. if it doesnt go to 48, then the stream isn't bitperfect


----------



## nc8000

endless402 said:


> then it's prob running on hifi quality, not master. so you'll get 41 and 48. if it doesnt go to 48, then the stream isn't bitperfect


Should be 44 or 48


----------



## Kiats

endless402 said:


> then it's prob running on hifi quality, not master. so you'll get 41 and 48. if it doesnt go to 48, then the stream isn't bitperfect


Yes it runs on hifi quality when Chromecast is used. Why would that not be bit perfect?


----------



## endless402 (Jun 28, 2022)

Kiats said:


> Yes it runs on hifi quality when Chromecast is used. Why would that not be bit perfect?


let me see if i can find a 48khz song on tidal only on hifi.

turns out on HIFI mode, it's all 44.1
Only on master mode it can be 44.1/16, 44.1/24, 48/16 and 48/24

DX300 should be able to run masters quality though


----------



## Kiats

endless402 said:


> let me see if i can find a 48khz song on tidal only on hifi.
> 
> turns out on HIFI mode, it's all 44.1
> Only on master mode it can be 44.1/16, 44.1/24, 48/16 and 48/24
> ...


Of course it does. So does the Shanling M9 but when they do a Chromecast, it goes down to hifi quality.


----------



## equalspeace

Evening,

One word gents and ladies:

Viborg

Glorious and surprisingly affordable cables I have on the Tazzy at the power and USB B inputs. Added layers and agility in the sound that is unmistakable. 

The amp is fantastic too btw haha. But the cables are the finishing touches. Really happy.


----------



## endless402

Kiats said:


> Of course it does. So does the Shanling M9 but when they do a Chromecast, it goes down to hifi quality.


Weird implementation by google. Good enough anyway.


----------



## Kiats

In any event, the FiiO BTA30Pro has arrived. Enjoying it with the TAZ and HD800S. LDAC out of the DX300.


----------



## Kiats (Jun 29, 2022)

jirams said:


> My comments on relay clicking do not depend on which input is selected.
> It only occurs when Pre Out output is selected.


OK. Finally back to my desktop rig yesterday after a short trip.

I am running the TAZ as a pre-amp (fixed). Streaming LDAC through the FiiO BTA30Pro from the DX300 into coaxial input into the TAZ. I am listening to the Stax 009S off the Moljnir KGSSHV Carbon. There is no relay clicking in between songs. Trying with Apple Music has the same results.

What I will say is this: Gosh! This is a wonderful combination! As enjoyable as the Shanling M30 pre-amp on tube output into the Carbon.


----------



## equalspeace

Pic from the rocking that was done yesterday:


----------



## VancityDreaming




----------



## Kiats

For the past few days I have been running the TAZ as a pre-amp (fixed). Streaming LDAC through the FiiO BTA30Pro from the DX300 into coaxial input into the TAZ. Amplification through the Moljnir KGSSHV Carbon. I cycled through the Stax 009S, 007 Mk 1 and now the 007 Mk 2. I will say that I have absolutely enjoyed the combination.


----------



## Gamerlingual

I’m wondering how the FiiO BT30A Pro can be used with the TA out to my MDR-Z1R. Pointless approach perhaps?


----------



## Kiats (Jul 1, 2022)

Gamerlingual said:


> I’m wondering how the FiiO BT30A Pro can be used with the TA out to my MDR-Z1R. Pointless approach perhaps?


It depends on what you want to do. I use the FiiO BTA30 Pro as BT receiver in LDAC from my DX300. To stream music services. I use coaxial in.

Alternative is to use the Chromecast Audio like @gLer also has set up for wifi streaming. I am trying that too. Optical into the TAZ.

I am waiting for the iFi Zen Stream to arrive and I will try it into the TAZ with USB DAC connection.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Ah streaming. That’s what’s key. My source may need to be my PC, then


----------



## Kiats

Gamerlingual said:


> Ah streaming. That’s what’s key. My source may need to be my PC, then


If you use your PC, you might as well use USB into the USB DAC input for the TAZ. You get lossless input with much higher limits on resolution of the music files.


----------



## equalspeace

Big and little brother are quite a pair:


----------



## kefs

Feeling under the weather. Only one thing to do!


----------



## The1Signature

equalspeace said:


> Big and little brother are quite a pair:


is this connection between the walkman and taz better than just using it with the digital cable that gets directly connected to the side port of the taz?


----------



## Whitigir

The1Signature said:


> is this connection between the walkman and taz better than just using it with the digital cable that gets directly connected to the side port of the taz?


According to the schematics , the PC port in the back is superior to the side port, and I have posted about this several times

The side port is using a cheap generic internal usb cables to route to the back in the while the back port is directly soldered onto the PCB board


----------



## nc8000

Whitigir said:


> According to the schematics , the PC port in the back is superior to the side port, and I have posted about this several times
> 
> The side port is using a cheap generic internal usb cables to route to the back in the while the back port is directly soldered onto the PCB board


The one advantage the side port has is that it will charge the dap if used with the cable that comes with the TA


----------



## Whitigir

nc8000 said:


> The one advantage the side port has is that it will charge the dap if used with the cable that comes with the TA


Yes, it has a detection switches inside as well.  Is it convenient ? Absolutely!! But is it the best sound performances ? Not technically…can you tell the differences ? Well…


----------



## Lookout57

Best sound is using the Sony dock and high quality USB cable (I'm using AQ Carbon) to the rear USB port.


----------



## equalspeace

The1Signature said:


> is this connection between the walkman and taz better than just using it with the digital cable that gets directly connected to the side port of the taz?



What Whitgir said.

I haven't used the side port because the input in the back is the way to go.


----------



## gLer

Kiats said:


> Guess what arrived today?
> 
> @gLer Quick Q: when I do a chromecast from my DX300 whether it be Tidal or Apple Music, it only casts at PCM 44.1 kHz. Should I be expecting a higher resolution or is this right?


Apologies for the late reply, been away on vac and decided to disconnect from HF for the week. Can't say exactly why you're not getting 24/96, but if you CC a 24/96 track from your phone (via UAPP) it should appear as 24/96 on Taz. 

As an aside, let us know what you think of SQ between CCA and BTA-30 please? Lossless optical vs lossy coax, both at 24/96 (or 16/44.1).


----------



## equalspeace (Jul 5, 2022)

One of the things I noticed about the Tazzy is how it sounded with my Oracle pre update versus after the update. On the Oracle before i updated this amp they were almost unlistenable on the Tazzy - just too bloated and warm sounding with really poor technicalities. It was like the sound was one big blob.

After the update when I went back to the Oracle all of the above was fixed. Huge difference. The Oracle made a beautiful synergy with the Tazzy. So it seems like the update was really a necessity in this regard, although I'm not sure how much this issue is generalizable to other IEMs. Maybe others had a similar experience. i was very happy with this change as this kind of completed the Tazzy for me in terms of my use cases.


----------



## Kiats

gLer said:


> Apologies for the late reply, been away on vac and decided to disconnect from HF for the week. Can't say exactly why you're not getting 24/96, but if you CC a 24/96 track from your phone (via UAPP) it should appear as 24/96 on Taz.
> 
> As an aside, let us know what you think of SQ between CCA and BTA-30 please? Lossless optical vs lossy coax, both at 24/96 (or 16/44.1).


No worries at all! Ah… I see you are using UAPP. I was just using the Tidal app. 

I use the BTA30Pro on the setting on priority on SQ and elect to have it stream at 24/96. It sounds none the worse than via CCA. The advantage or convenience is that I can then play all the streaming services including QQ Music, Apple Music. KKBox interestingly will show the exact 24/48 bit rate for the HR category of songs on the CCA. No dumbing down like for Tidal. 

Today, I got my hands on the iFi Zen Stream. I am using it primarily for its Roon ready status. So, I have USB out of the the ZS into the TAZ. For QQ Music, I use Q Play. Well done but still has some bugs to iron out. But SQ is great. KKBox also works well for casting to the ZS. 

So my TAZ is currently gone from no connection to now having wifi via the CCA, the ZS and BT via the BTA30Pro. 

These couple of days I am running the TAZ as pre-amp out into the Mjolnir KGSSHV Carbon. Trying out a few pairs of 30 yo Stax earspeakers.


----------



## musicisthekey

If someone has previous versions of TA firmware, please PM me. I'm on v1.03 and would like to try previous ones. Thank you.


----------



## Vamp898

musicisthekey said:


> If someone has previous versions of TA firmware, please PM me. I'm on v1.03 and would like to try previous ones. Thank you.


Uhm? I don't really understand. The Versions contained errors that have been fixed. Do you really want these errors back?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jul 12, 2022)

Are you for real?


Vamp898 said:


> Uhm? I don't really understand. The Versions contained errors that have been fixed. Do you really want these errors back?


Each version of the software has a distinctive sound. Such errors were almost nothing in contrast to the excitement in tone. Though if that darker tone is wanted, remains to be seen.

Literally those small fixes were nothing?


----------



## obzilla

Redcarmoose said:


> Literally those small fixes were nothing?


‘

‘Corrects a condition where the headphones are misidentified as a 24bit/384kHz source when playing 32bit/384kHz content from a Walkman® player’
pretty inconsequential for v 1.0,3. Like all driver and firmware updates the changes are documented


----------



## sebbaan

Made a mistake earlier this year and sold my zh1es. Looking to buy another one, anyone here thinking about selling? EU.


----------



## kefs

sebbaan said:


> Made a mistake earlier this year and sold my zh1es. Looking to buy another one, anyone here thinking about selling? EU.


Keep your eye out on Amazon marketplace. Great savings when they come up, full Sony warranty as new. Win win


----------



## jjss

Hello,
Has anyone heard news saying that the TAZ is discontinued as when I checked with local Sony dealer they said this product is discontinued and no longer available for order!

Is this the case?


----------



## Kiats

kefs said:


> Keep your eye out on Amazon marketplace. Great savings when they come up, full Sony warranty as new. Win win


Yup. I picked up one with a discount on the Sony online store in late May.


----------



## Kiats

jjss said:


> Hello,
> Has anyone heard news saying that the TAZ is discontinued as when I checked with local Sony dealer they said this product is discontinued and no longer available for order!
> 
> Is this the case?


It appears so. The odd stock will turn up once a while.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Has anyone had any experience powering the HiFiman Sundara or Sennheiser HD599 SE? Do they work ok with them?


----------



## Kiats (Jul 15, 2022)

Just as everyone is looking for this, a friend just picked this up in Wisma Atria Sony Centre in Singapore. It’s a pre-order. Very limited stock.  PSA.


----------



## obzilla

Amazon has some in stock (US)


----------



## Gamerlingual

I wonder if this will be considered an heirloom in due time


----------



## Hinomotocho (Jul 15, 2022)

Kiats said:


> Just as everyone is looking for this, a friend just picked this up in Wisma Atria Sony Centre in Singapore. It’s a pre-order. Very limited stock.  PSA.


The old timer with the new kid on the block.
Unfortunately the demo model wear along the front adds to the impression of age when in fact it is a timeless piece of audio gear.
I don't know where the future is headed but I would expect to see these pop up many years in the future like you sometimes see those old 70's amps still being shown some love.


----------



## obzilla

Kiats said:


> Just as everyone is looking for this, a friend just picked this up in Wisma Atria Sony Centre in Singapore. It’s a pre-order. Very limited stock.  PSA.


I want to know where I can get the cable they’re using here. the powered micro USB to USB C


----------



## camera

Kiats said:


> Just as everyone is looking for this, a friend just picked this up in Wisma Atria Sony Centre in Singapore. It’s a pre-order. Very limited stock.  PSA.


Thanks for the heads-up.  I wish I could go there and fetch one.


----------



## gLer

obzilla said:


> I want to know where I can get the cable they’re using here. the powered micro USB to USB C


Yes me too! Anyone know if and where it's available?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Jul 20, 2022)

Well, well....


----------



## Sanlitun

I saw that in the dcs Lina video as well.


----------



## equalspeace

Redcarmoose said:


> Well, well....



You just can't go wrong w the TA. It sounds just about perfect


----------



## davidmthekidd

My signature series almost complete, only missing pieces are: USB Cradle and the packaging box for my 1ZM1, seller tossed it.


----------



## Hinomotocho

davidmthekidd said:


> My signature series almost complete, only missing pieces are: USB Cradle and the packaging box for my 1ZM1, seller tossed it.


Looking good.
Does that stand provide a solid support for your 1Z? Usually they are designed for phones so look to be a bit narrow for the thicker 1Z design.
I have the dock but as I can frequently change albums and tracks it concerns me the constant movement causing wear of the port/connector so was looking for a stand for playback when not feeding that TA.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Hinomotocho said:


> Looking good.
> Does that stand provide a solid support for your 1Z? Usually they are designed for phones so look to be a bit narrow for the thicker 1Z design.
> I have the dock but as I can frequently change albums and tracks it concerns me the constant movement causing wear of the port/connector so was looking for a stand for playback when not feeding that TA.


Yeah, stand works perfectly for the 1z, you'd need push it to bring the 1z down.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z82895W?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details


----------



## VancityDreaming

davidmthekidd said:


> Yeah, stand works perfectly for the 1z, you'd need push it to bring the 1z down.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z82895W?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details


I have the same one and it works perfectly with WM1A + the wmport.


----------



## VancityDreaming

gLer said:


> Yes me too! Anyone know if and where it's available?


Looks like the Fiio CL06.


----------



## Hinomotocho

I've just upgraded my computer and have the task of reinstalling everything and as it was so long ago I can't recall everything I need. Can anyone please guide me to what exactly I need to install for Windows 11, specifically for Foobar including sacd/dsf playback? Is it Asio or Wasapi?


----------



## davidmthekidd

on windows 10, I would install the asio drivers provided by sony.


----------



## Hinomotocho

davidmthekidd said:


> on windows 10, I would install the asio drivers provided by sony.


Simple, thanks. As my computer was about 9 years old and I've installed various add ons for Foobar and had portable amp/dacs in the past I couldn't remember if there were any other specific tweaks etc. My back up didn't go well so now I just have to remember about 50 passwords


----------



## davidmthekidd

in order to avoid over-charging the 1z, which cables are you guys using to connect it via the rear of the TAZ.


----------



## Lookout57

davidmthekidd said:


> in order to avoid over-charging the 1z, which cables are you guys using to connect it via the rear of the TAZ.


AQ Carbon to Sony Dock.


----------



## The1Signature

Lookout57 said:


> AQ Carbon to Sony Dock.


as 99% of the headfiers do


----------



## nc8000

The1Signature said:


> as 99% of the headfiers do


Probably only of the one who use a WM as source for the TA


----------



## Vamp898

davidmthekidd said:


> in order to avoid over-charging the 1z, which cables are you guys using to connect it via the rear of the TAZ.


The power safe feature should stop charging at 90%, no matter the cable


----------



## davidmthekidd

Vamp898 said:


> The power safe feature should stop charging at 90%, no matter the cable


ok, so it should be ok to leave it connected via the walkman side port, I did enable safe charging on the 1Z.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Seems like TAZ Can't do DSD over the Fiber Optical Input, anyone has any info on this?


----------



## Kiats

davidmthekidd said:


> Seems like TAZ Can't do DSD over the Fiber Optical Input, anyone has any info on this?


I don’t think you can do DSD over coaxial or optical input. Anyway, here is the extract from the TAZ specifications page:


----------



## equalspeace (Aug 4, 2022)

Has anyone played around with connecting another DAC to the analogue inputs on the TA, just for a different flavor or out of curiosity?

Really fun being able to toggle the format to what i want on up to DSD 11.2 from the analogue input being fed from the Tradutto DAC that's being streamed to. The TA is an amazing device. Some serious wizardry happening in side this thing. DSD 11.2 sounds ridiculous.


----------



## kefs

Picked up a Sony/ Kimber 3.5-3.5 balanced for a cracking price on auction.swapped out with stock 4.4. 
A great sound change, i had an enjoyable evening! Z1R put you into a personal performance with the artist. Sublime


----------



## endless402

kefs said:


> Picked up a Sony/ Kimber 3.5-3.5 balanced for a cracking price on auction.swapped out with stock 4.4.
> A great sound change, i had an enjoyable evening! Z1R put you into a personal performance with the artist. Sublime


Hopefully not fake?


----------



## kefs

endless402 said:


> Hopefully not fake?


No, from a Sony fan, had good communication throughout


----------



## The1Signature (Aug 5, 2022)

kefs said:


> No, from a Sony fan, had good communication throughout


hopefully the sony fan didn't buy a fake without knowing it


----------



## The1Signature

does anybody have a case with foam when traveling and taking the taz with you? which one would you recommend?


----------



## mang72

I posted this on the walkman thread but had no luck, posting here to see if anyone has some insight. I am a new Tazzy owner so still learning. ”For TA-ZH1ES owners, are you able use the WM-NW1AM2 to stream from app bases services? I can play via the walkman app but not Apple Music. Have given Apple Music permission to Files and media but still can’t stream. Using the rear USB-B to USB-C cable. I can stream fine from my iPad in this way Fine”. Cheers!


----------



## Gamerlingual

mang72 said:


> I posted this on the walkman thread but had no luck, posting here to see if anyone has some insight. I am a new Tazzy owner so still learning. ”For TA-ZH1ES owners, are you able use the WM-NW1AM2 to stream from app bases services? I can play via the walkman app but not Apple Music. Have given Apple Music permission to Files and media but still can’t stream. Using the rear USB-B to USB-C cable. I can stream fine from my iPad in this way Fine”. Cheers!


I’ve used my A105 for streaming and worked no problem


----------



## endless402 (Aug 15, 2022)

finally plugged in an upgraded power cable for my ZH1ES. transformed the sound for sure...!
I used to listen at around -30db...with the new PC, i'm at -26db oddly


----------



## gLer

endless402 said:


> finally plugged in an upgraded power cable for my ZH1ES. transformed the sound for sure...!
> I used to listen at around -30db...with the new PC, i'm at -26db oddly


Which one did you get, and are you plugged direct to wall socket? What differences do you hear?


----------



## endless402

gLer said:


> Which one did you get, and are you plugged direct to wall socket? What differences do you hear?


Picked up an Esoteric 7N-PC5500se plugged directly into wall. I own a lot of these japanese Acrolink/Esoteric power cords for my 2 channel (8n-PC8800 and 7N-PC7500) but I've never plugged them into the ZH1ES because they cost more than the zh1es...

placement of instruments are much more well defined especially the center image and gives the impression of a wider soundstage as a result, slightly more leading edge speed/attack, tighter bass but less bloat (i found the fatter bass more fun sounding), blacker background during the quiet passages


----------



## Gamerlingual

Here I’m just fine with having a TA with my MDR-Z1R and I just call it a day. I can see how this hobby has a very deep rabbit hole to dig into.


----------



## kefs

Gamerlingual said:


> Here I’m just fine with having a TA with my MDR-Z1R and I just call it a day. I can see how this hobby has a very deep rabbit hole to dig into.


Same for me. No wish to look any further


----------



## gLer

kefs said:


> Same for me. No wish to look any further


I replaced the stock power cord on mine, but nothing crazy, just a good shielded large gauge IsoTek cord. Clean power, like clean USB input, is just one of those things we have to look out for with desktop gear. Doesn't have to be expensive, but spending a few hundred bucks to make sure your $2000 Sony player has good shielded cables feeding it isn't too much to ask, I would think.


----------



## mang72 (Aug 15, 2022)

Gamerlingual said:


> I’ve used my A105 for streaming and worked no problem


Did you have to do anything in the andriod settings to get it to work? I did talk to Sony but the poor dude on the 24/7 chat didnt even know about the TA.....so not much help there!


----------



## Hinomotocho

gLer said:


> I replaced the stock power cord on mine, but nothing crazy, just a good shielded large gauge IsoTek cord. Clean power, like clean USB input, is just one of those things we have to look out for with desktop gear. Doesn't have to be expensive, but spending a few hundred bucks to make sure your $2000 Sony player has good shielded cables feeding it isn't too much to ask, I would think.


Agred. My secondhand TA although the correct power rating came with an overseas plug so it was an excuse to go for an entry level Isotek. Needless to say I have the Audioquest Carbon USB. 
The talk of the diminishing returns area of cables etc can cause some strong opposition. I get it, a penny saved is a penny earned and there are other areas you can spend your money getting better results but I figure if you're at a certain tier your gear is more likely to benefit from it and even the small links in the chain overall will have some positive effect.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Hinomotocho said:


> Agred. My secondhand TA although the correct power rating came with an overseas plug so it was an excuse to go for an entry level Isotek. Needless to say I have the Audioquest Carbon USB.
> The talk of the diminishing returns area of cables etc can cause some strong opposition. I get it, a penny saved is a penny earned and there are other areas you can spend your money getting better results but I figure if you're at a certain tier your gear is more likely to benefit from it and even the small links in the chain overall will have some positive effect.


I got the carbon cable and Sony cradle right when I bought the TA. So in my case, I’m fully loaded.


----------



## Gamerlingual

mang72 said:


> Did you have to do anything in the andriod settings to get it to work? I did talk to Sony but the poor dude on the 24/7 chat didnt even know about the TA.....so not much help there!


USB-C behind the USB connector of the TA. Special cable. Looks like the printer end of the cable.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Aug 15, 2022)

Gamerlingual said:


> I got the carbon cable and Sony cradle right when I bought the TA. So in my case, I’m fully loaded.


Cradle 
Seems to be the TA-ZH1ES HeadFi thread standard upgrade combo.
I mostly end up using the WMC-NWH10 adapter as my 1Z can sit flat on my desk and doesn't wiggle around stressing the WM-Port of the dock with my chronic track changing.


----------



## Gamerlingual

Hinomotocho said:


> Cradle
> Seems to be the TA-ZH1ES HeadFi thread standard upgrade combo.
> I mostly end up using the WMC-NWH10 adapter as my 1Z can sit flat on my desk and doesn't wiggle around stressing the WM-Port of the dock with my chronic track changing.


I use the NW-A55 on the cradle mostly


----------



## mang72

Gamerlingual said:


> USB-C behind the USB connector of the TA. Special cable. Looks like the printer end of the cable.


Yep thats the one I have been using. The rear USB-B port to the USB-C on the walkman. It works with the Walkman app but not Apple music App. I can stream from my ipad pro (USB-C) so its a bit strange the new walkman wont do it. Another strange thing when streaming for Apple music, the TA does not match what apple music is saying for the sampling rate and bit depth.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Aug 17, 2022)

A few factors have changed recently allowing me to reconfigure my desk set up so finally my TA-ZH1ES is back on my desktop ready for action. Also having only owned my WM1Z since December I was devoting my minimal listening time to getting used to that, and probably somewhere in my mind help justify the purchase.
After deciding to let my MDR-Z1R go favouring my IER-Z1R I decided for movies that overheads would be a good idea so got myself a mint Z7 which has now given me a new appreciation of overheads so now I feel an MDR-Z1R (secondhand) might be a future purchase if I can raise the funds
.


----------



## Gamerlingual

You had to sell your MDE-Z1R due to needing funds?


----------



## Hinomotocho (Aug 16, 2022)

Gamerlingual said:


> You had to sell your MDE-Z1R due to needing funds?


Not covid related, funds for a WM1Z.
Iems suit me more for various reasons and hence get more useage so after getting the IER-Z1R I felt they were wasted. As the new Walkmans were being released a store in Australia did a very low price on the WM1Z so I felt my money would be put to better use there (selling on my 1A too to cover it).
I knew I could replace a secondhand Z1R but when the WM1Z stock was gone I would have to buy secondhand. Going back to the lower tier Z7 has given me a new insight on overheads, and if I do get them again I'll maybe have a new appreciation and perspective of them.
I am open to others but the Sony Z1R range tick some big boxes for being light and comfortable and seal well.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Hinomotocho said:


> Not covid related, funds for a WM1Z.
> Iems suit me more for various reasons and hence get more useage so after getting the IER-Z1R I felt they were wasted. As the new Walkmans were being released a store in Australia did a very low price on the WM1Z so I felt my money would be put to better use there (selling on my 1A too to cover it).
> I knew I could replace a secondhand Z1R but when the WM1Z stock was gone I would have to buy secondhand. Going back to the lower tier Z7 has given me a new insight on overheads, and if I do get them again I'll maybe have a new appreciation and perspective of them.
> I am open to others but the Sony Z1R range tick some big boxes for being light and comfortable and seal well.


Full size Z1R sounds great, specially when paired with the rest of the signature series, but what makes the Z1R really stand above other's is comfort. I usually use the Z1R during work hours from 10am-7pm nonstop, try that with the IER-Z1R.


----------



## mang72 (Aug 17, 2022)

Hinomotocho said:


> Not covid related, funds for a WM1Z.
> Iems suit me more for various reasons and hence get more useage so after getting the IER-Z1R I felt they were wasted. As the new Walkmans were being released a store in Australia did a very low price on the WM1Z so I felt my money would be put to better use there (selling on my 1A too to cover it).
> I knew I could replace a secondhand Z1R but when the WM1Z stock was gone I would have to buy secondhand. Going back to the lower tier Z7 has given me a new insight on overheads, and if I do get them again I'll maybe have a new appreciation and perspective of them.
> I am open to others but the Sony Z1R range tick some big boxes for being light and comfortable and seal well.


I have both the Z7 and Z1R. The Z7 was my first introduction to an audiophile headphones that me gave so much more enjoyment when listening to music and I love them for that reason. I still regularily swap between the Z7 and Z1R and both really suit my listening setup and am planning to hand these over as part of my estate when I am dead!


----------



## nc8000

davidmthekidd said:


> Full size Z1R sounds great, specially when paired with the rest of the signature series, but what makes the Z1R really stand above other's is comfort. I usually use the Z1R during work hours from 10am-7pm nonstop, try that with the IER-Z1R.


I have no problem using the IER 8 hours straight


----------



## gLer

nc8000 said:


> I have no problem using the IER 8 hours straight


Same, as long as I don't move around too much. I generally prefer the IER to the MDR for pure sound quality, especially with the Taz, but the MDR has a unique presentation IEMs can't quite replicate, so having both is the best of both worlds, especially with Signature Series sources.


----------



## nc8000

gLer said:


> Same, as long as I don't move around too much. I generally prefer the IER to the MDR for pure sound quality, especially with the Taz, but the MDR has a unique presentation IEMs can't quite replicate, so having both is the best of both worlds, especially with Signature Series sources.


Indeed


----------



## KZCloud89

Hey guys,

Super late to the party but just got a second hand TA for my bedside rig driving mainly custom IEMs and Fostex 900/909.  The build quality is amazing compact and substantial.  

It's connected to the 2022 MacBook Pro M1 with USB A to B cable with no problem whatsoever.  Read the manual this morning and apparently no driver needed for Mac.

Initial impressions TA slightly warm mid-centric signature which has great synergy with the Fostex 900/909.  Great highs and sweet airy female vocal and more forward than my Audio-gd R28.  Bass is all there just a touch less impactful than the R28.  To be honest the R28 paired with the 900/909 with bass heavy tracks sometimes a little overwhelming and would give me headache lol.  Better power cable and USB cable are coming so I'm expecting some minor improvements ahead.

Anyone knows how to check for the installed FW version on the TA (can't find it on the manual)?  Also the remote control is not working with new batteries. Anyone had same problem and found a solution?

Thanks


----------



## nc8000

KZCloud89 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Super late to the party but just got a second hand TA for my bedside rig driving mainly custom IEMs and Fostex 900/909.  The build quality is amazing compact and substantial.
> 
> ...


I think the only way you can check the fe version is to connect it to a pc and try to install the latest version. As I recall that shows what is currently installed


----------



## KZCloud89

nc8000 said:


> I think the only way you can check the fe version is to connect it to a pc and try to install the latest version. As I recall that shows what is currently installed


It was mentioned somewhere in this thread that the older version 1.0 is warmer and 1.03 is more transparent/analytical.  For the headphones I'm using probably prefer to keep the older version if possible since we can't roll back the firmware update.  Thanks.


----------



## nc8000




----------



## hleonz

KZCloud89 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Super late to the party but just got a second hand TA for my bedside rig driving mainly custom IEMs and Fostex 900/909.  The build quality is amazing compact and substantial.
> 
> ...


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...e-from-ifa-2016.818848/page-314#post-16945421


----------



## KZCloud89

hleonz said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...e-from-ifa-2016.818848/page-314#post-16945421


Many thanks!!!


----------



## obzilla

KZCloud89 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Super late to the party but just got a second hand TA for my bedside rig driving mainly custom IEMs and Fostex 900/909.  The build quality is amazing compact and substantial.



this sounds familiar


----------



## KZCloud89 (Aug 19, 2022)

obzilla said:


> this sounds familiar


Looks familiar too lol.  Just compared the TA vs R28 with the Foxtex 909 and 100% sure the TA has much better synergy even the R28 has the DDC in front of it.  Finally I'm hearing that beautiful vocal and the bass impact is just right (love my bass).  Thanks for all the help guys.

Btw @obzilla what settings you applied for the 909?

Here's my so far
Gain High
DSEE HX Female Vocal
DSD Remastering On
DC Phase Linearizer On


----------



## mang72

hleonz said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...e-from-ifa-2016.818848/page-314#post-16945421


I just bought a new remote, was $50 aud shipped. Pretty good value I thought….or is my value meter all stuffed up from buying all this super cheap headphone gear?


----------



## KZCloud89

mang72 said:


> I just bought a new remote, was $50 aud shipped. Pretty good value I thought….or is my value meter all stuffed up from buying all this super cheap headphone gear?


I'm looking a new/used remote.  Do you mind sharing where you got it?  Btw $50 Aud is a bargain...


----------



## obzilla

KZCloud89 said:


> Looks familiar too lol.  Just compared the TA vs R28 with the Foxtex 909 and 100% sure the TA has much better synergy even the R28 has the DDC in front of it.  Finally I'm hearing that beautiful vocal and the bass impact is just right (love my bass).  Thanks for all the help guys.
> 
> Btw @obzilla what settings you applied for the 909?
> 
> ...


Balanced cable so high gain not needed. Otherwise same settings except the DSEE, I don’t use it.

I also use it as a DAC/digital preamp to a GSX mini for my more power hungry cans. The TAZ sounds lovely but doesn’t have the beans for inefficient cans unfortunately


----------



## mang72

KZCloud89 said:


> I'm looking a new/used remote.  Do you mind sharing where you got it?  Btw $50 Aud is a bargain...


IKR $50. Have not spent that little in a long time. Sort of worry’s me!

https://www.speedyspares.com/shop/sony/4630-sony-ta-zh1es-audio-remote.html 

Not sure if they ship outside Oz.


----------



## KZCloud89

mang72 said:


> IKR $50. Have not spent that little in a long time. Sort of worry’s me!
> 
> https://www.speedyspares.com/shop/sony/4630-sony-ta-zh1es-audio-remote.html
> 
> Not sure if they ship outside Oz.


Shipping within Australia only.  Bummer!


----------



## Sp12er3

Redcarmoose said:


> Well, well....


The output of the Tazzy is too versatile for a reviewer to have, as long as you like its sound and it has enough to power the transducers. 
They can just first test it there and just move to their bigger amp when they think it's underpowered.


----------



## Sp12er3

Might have this coming. 😇


----------



## KZCloud89

obzilla said:


> Balanced cable so high gain not needed. Otherwise same settings except the DSEE, I don’t use it.
> 
> I also use it as a DAC/digital preamp to a GSX mini for my more power hungry cans. The TAZ sounds lovely but doesn’t have the beans for inefficient cans unfortunately





Sp12er3 said:


> Might have this coming. 😇


Resistance is futile 😃


----------



## Sp12er3

is there any need to install ASIO or WASAPI driver when running the TA with Foobar2k? right now im using default (exclusive), is it good enough?


----------



## Hinomotocho (Aug 24, 2022)

Sp12er3 said:


> is there any need to install ASIO or WASAPI driver when running the TA with Foobar2k? right now im using default (exclusive), is it good enough?


I wanted to ask this question again as I recently got a new PC with Windows 11. I installed foobar and the official TA-ZH1ES Sony drivers but when going to install ASIO from the foobar add-on component page the comment said it may degrade the sound in certain scenarios.
Does that mean WASAPI is the way to go or these are no longer required?
I noticed when selecting either of the TA-ZH1ES output options in Foobar there was a difference in sound when switching, on my previous PC there was no noticeable difference between these options. These options were different from the Windows 10 options.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Aug 24, 2022)

Hinomotocho said:


> I wanted to ask this question again as I recently got a new PC with Windows 11. I installed foobar and the official TA-ZH1ES Sony drivers but when going to install ASIO from the foobar add-on component page the comment said it may degrade the sound in certain scenarios.
> Does that mean WASAPI is the way to go or these are no longer required?
> I noticed when selecting either of the TA-ZH1ES output options in Foobar there was a difference in sound when switching, on my previous PC there was no noticeable difference between these options. These options were different from the Windows 10 options.
> Excuse the poor pic.


I thought WASAPI was automatically installed now?


----------



## Hinomotocho

Redcarmoose said:


> I though WASAPI was automatically installed now?


Via Windows OS or Sony drivers? I'm not knowledgeable about these things and it was many years ago I last set up foobar on my old PC. I had both WASAPI and ASIO before but it looks like there was a warning about ASIO on the foobar component page? Should I just manually install WASAPI or is it already a part of the Windows 11 stock install?


----------



## mang72

I have a quick question to anyone that has recently bought an AQ Carbon cable for their TA. I just bought one, got delivered yesterday and have my suspicions regarding its authenticity. The AQ website shows the cable with carbon lettering both ends, mine is only on the USB C end. It aslo seems fairly light and the white lines on the cable are very faint and not how it looks in the picture. It came from a local dealer so I hoping its legit, paid a fortune for something I wasnt too sure about to begin with so if anyone has one it would be great to hear from you on how yours looks.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Aug 23, 2022)

Hinomotocho said:


> Via Windows OS or Sony drivers? I'm not knowledgeable about these things and it was many years ago I last set up foobar on my old PC. I had both WASAPI and ASIO before but it looks like there was a warning about ASIO on the foobar component page? Should I just manually install WASAPI or is it already a part of the Windows 11 stock install?


When I started with Foobar2000 back about 12 years ago, I ran it without WASAPI. You had a choice and I didn’t know what WASAPI was. I noticed extreme timing issues in relation to CD playback with a standalone CD player. I don’t use Foobar2000 any longer, but as I understand.....it comes with WASAPI now? You should be fine with not installing WASAPI.

The Sony firmware is only concerned with the amplifier playback.


mang72 said:


> I have a quick question to anyone that has recently bought an AQ Carbon cable for their TA. I just bought one, got delivered yesterday and have my suspicions regarding its authenticity. The AQ website shows the cable with carbon lettering both ends, mine is only on the USB C end. It aslo seems fairly light and the white lines on the cable are very faint and not how it looks in the picture. It came from a local dealer so I hoping its legit, paid a fortune for something I wasnt too sure about to begin with so if anyone has one it would be great to hear from you on how yours looks.


My AQCarbon has totally different writing? I would ask AudioQuest if they changed the writing. Never is the Carbon word length-wise? Also “audioquest” is in 3D relief embossed across the lower end of the plug.

Edit:
After research it seems many of the plugs look like yours?

This is mine: someone else’s photos.






Edit:
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/04/23/audioquest-assortment-with-graig-neville-review/?amp

Here is a review of the AQCarbon that is exactly like mine,  though it seems AudioQuest may have changed the look of the cable, as there are way too many versions like yours to be counterfeit?






The actual cable above provided by the Director of Communications for AQ. Very small chance of it being fake.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-mejias-79b23b16a

I would contact AQ if you have worries.


----------



## mang72 (Aug 23, 2022)

Redcarmoose said:


> When I started with Foobar2000 back about 12 years ago, I ran it without WASAPI. You had a choice and I didn’t know what WASAPI was. I noticed extreme timing issues in relation to CD playback with a standalone CD player. I don’t use Foobar2000 any longer, but as I understand.....it comes with WASAPI now? You should be fine with not installing WASAPI.
> 
> The Sony firmware is only concerned with the amplifier playback.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks, how old is your cable? I did talk to AQ and the repsonse was that they are happy to inspect the cable at the factory but if they have doubts you agree that they destroy the cable with no refund. Mine is not braided like yours, it is much thinner and like a normal cable plastic. I will post some photos of my actual cable. I was going to ask the seller but they will always say its legit. Man I hope I didnt just blow $250 on a $3 cable!


----------



## Redcarmoose

mang72 said:


> Ok thanks, how old is your cable? I did talk to AQ and the repsonse was that they are happy to inspect the cable at the factory but if they have doubts you agree that they destroy the cable with no refund. Mine is not braided like yours, it is much thinner and like a normal cable plastic. I will post some photos of my actual cable. I was going to ask the seller but they will always say its legit. Man I hope I didnt just blow $250 on a $3 cable!


Mine is from 2019. The thing is most of the cables on the internet look like yours? Maybe I have an earlier model? I would have actually suspected mine as being fake, but the cables given to the reviewer were identical to mine, so I have no question as to it’s authenticity. Funny that AQ wouldn’t just substantiate that they changed writing, as it would simply clear-up any confusion?


----------



## mang72 (Oct 19, 2022)

Redcarmoose said:


> Mine is from 2019. The thing is most of the cables on the internet look like yours? Maybe I have an earlier model? I would have actually suspected mine as being fake, but the cables given to the reviewer were identical to mine, so I have no question as to it’s authenticity. Funny that AQ wouldn’t just substantiate that they changed writing, as it would simply clear-up any confusion?


Maybe its ok on a more thorough look, still not quite the same as the online pics. I hate the rip off fake stuff, I waited till I went to Japan on holidays to buy all my Sony Kimber Kables to help ensure they were not fakes. Anyway sorry this was a bit off topic, I did sneak a pic of the TA to make the post more relevant! And the whisky is helping the paranoia….


----------



## Redcarmoose

That looks authentic, I mean who would go to the trouble to emboss the AQ trademarks. But still I’m not familiar with the aq trademark? Sending simply those pictures to AudioQuest would be enough to prove it’s real. Funny though, I don’t see any weave in the sheathing?


mang72 said:


> Maybe its ok on a more thorough look, still not quite the same as the online pics. I hate to rip off fake stuff, I waited till I went to Japan on holidays to buy all my Sony Kimber Kables to help ensure they were not fakes. Anyway sorry this was a bit off topic, I did sneak a pic of the TA to make the post more relevant! And the whisky is helping the paranoia….


----------



## gLer

I'm using a generic but good quality (ugreen) $8 USB-C to B cable for listening with my LG V60 as source, and honestly, if there's a difference between that and listening via the WM1Z and Walkman port, I can't hear it. Taz is deliciously noise free it seems.


----------



## mang72

Redcarmoose said:


> That looks authentic, I mean who would go to the trouble to emboss the AQ trademarks. But still I’m not familiar with the aq trademark? Sending simply those pictures to AudioQuest would be enough to prove it’s real. Funny though, I don’t see any weave in the sheathing?


I think AQ may have changed at some stage to a less premium look and feel to the one I have now. At least thats what I can see from their website. Thanks for the help Redcarmoose. I think I will give up now and just enjoy the tunes.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Aug 24, 2022)

gLer said:


> I'm using a generic but good quality (ugreen) $8 USB-C to B cable for listening with my LG V60 as source, and honestly, if there's a difference between that and listening via the WM1Z and Walkman port, I can't hear it. Taz is deliciously noise free it seems.


I agree I’ve done some back to backs with the AQCarbon used with a MacBook Air, vs the Cradle with the 1Z/1A, and at times I thought I heard a difference, then at other times not? Though I learned of this set-up from Whitigir, so I simply emulated his setup?

With the side Walkman port, the back (USB) gets one level of DSD resolution better. It’s only one  DSD file frequency. Not that I ever use that. Still your comparing Apples and Oranges, and not even doing a comparison with what I’m talking about.

No AQCarbon USB?
No Cradle?
No Walkman?

So?

Do you see how your not really comparing?

Going with the AQCarbon from a 1A/1Z from the Cradle has at times proven itself to be remarkably better than any other file server quality to the TA? Obviously it could be psychological? But it all has to do with even if you buy into USB cord qualities affecting audio.


It seemed to be that only certain music would show differences? I of course could be totally wrong though? 


mang72 said:


> I think AQ may have changed at some stage to a less premium look and feel to the one I have now. At least thats what I can see from their website. Thanks for the help Redcarmoose. I think I will give up now and just enjoy the tunes.


Cheers!


----------



## Hinomotocho (Aug 24, 2022)

.


----------



## gLer

Redcarmoose said:


> I agree I’ve done some back to backs with the AQCarbon used with a MacBook Air, vs the Cradle with the 1Z/1A, and at times I thought I heard a difference, then at other times not? Though I learned of this set-up from Whitigir, so I simply emulated his setup?
> 
> With the side Walkman port, the back (USB) gets one level of DSD resolution better. It’s only one  DSD file frequency. Not that I ever use that. Still your comparing Apples and Oranges, and not even doing a comparison with what I’m talking about.
> 
> ...


I guess for me I'm past the stage of obsessing over fractions of a percentage point of noise or other differences a cable makes. The Taz sounds so clean and clear, even compared directly to the more expensive WM1Z (which already sounds better to me than any other DAP I've used), that any difference a cable would make is so minuscule as to not even register. YMMV of course, but I think with the Sony Signature Series we're already at such an extremely high quality level, I'm not sure I could ever complain about SQ again.


----------



## Redcarmoose

Yes! Well, it would maybe be more important if you had a single headphone and you thought you could hear a slight difference? Where with me I listen to many IEMs, so it’s a wash. But there was a time back in 2019 when I was making a run for single best quality with the MDR-Z1R. Of course perception is fickle and varies! 

Though you have to have a level of “care” to even purchase the AQCarbon. Though some of it is like insurance, that you have done your best for sound quality. 


gLer said:


> I guess for me I'm past the stage of obsessing over fractions of a percentage point of noise or other differences a cable makes. The Taz sounds so clean and clear, even compared directly to the more expensive WM1Z (which already sounds better to me than any other DAP I've used), that any difference a cable would make is so minuscule as to not even register. YMMV of course, but I think with the Sony Signature Series we're already at such an extremely high quality level, I'm not sure I could ever complain about SQ again.


But I guess I’m that way too, in that after a certain point it’s fractions of percentages? The Sony base is really the foundation! 

Though back when I purchased, it was like......let’s just see how far this stuff can go.


----------



## Sp12er3

Sp12er3 said:


> God..... Now I know who to blame when I find myself clicking the buy button on a TA-ZH1ES in the next couple of days.


@gLer @Kiats Yeah....



First Pic of the full family, on a messy desk.
Gonna take better picture sometime in the future, but for now...
Is the Cradle really THAT necessary?
Still mostly using USB in from my PC as my main source, so not sure how I'd even equip the Cradle even if I have it.


----------



## nc8000

Sp12er3 said:


> @gLer @Kiats Yeah....
> 
> First Pic of the full family, on a messy desk.
> Gonna take better picture sometime in the future, but for now...
> ...


The cradle does improve sound and convenience if you use a Walkman as source and as I remember pass through to a pc so the Walkman can be connected both ways but whether it is necassary is up to each person


----------



## Redcarmoose

Yes, PC pass though.


nc8000 said:


> The cradle does improve sound and convenience if you use a Walkman as source and as I remember pass through to a pc so the Walkman can be connected both ways but whether it is necassary is up to each person


----------



## Kiats

Sp12er3 said:


> @gLer @Kiats Yeah....
> 
> First Pic of the full family, on a messy desk.
> Gonna take better picture sometime in the future, but for now...
> ...


very nice! It is called organised chaos. Of the Sony universe kind. 🤗


----------



## Hinomotocho

Sp12er3 said:


> @gLer @Kiats Yeah....
> 
> First Pic of the full family, on a messy desk.
> Gonna take better picture sometime in the future, but for now...
> ...


It wasn't until you said mess that it began to appear.
I use PC sometimes if I don't have much time and want to navigate quickly through parts of songs that blow me away, otherwise the Walkmans connecting through the dock or WMC-NWH10 seem to have a cleaner pleasant sound with a blacker background. Either way the sound of the TA will be a sprinkle some magic on your music.


----------



## gLer

Redcarmoose said:


> Yes, PC pass though.


What do you mean by PC passthrough?


----------



## Redcarmoose (Oct 12, 2022)

gLer said:


> What do you mean by PC passthrough?


The extra usb connection in the back of the Cradle allows three things to be all hooked up at once.

1) Walkman
2) Cradle
3) Mac or PC

The cable runs from the PC/Mac then hooks to the back of the Cradle then the Cradle continues the signal into the TA. This feature allows for files to be added or subtracted from the PC/Mac to the Walkman and additional files onboard the PC/Mac to be played back through the Cradle into the TA. It passes through a small amount of electronics inside the Cradle. A switch (on back) is two way which allows you to choose your source to the TA.






Cheers

Edit:

The PC does not pass through.


----------



## gLer

Redcarmoose said:


> The extra usb connection in the back of the Cradle allows three things to be all hooked up at once.
> 
> 1)Walkman
> 2)Cradle
> ...


Ooh, that's an interesting benefit indeed. I'll likely be getting the cradle soon, this suggests I may actually use it.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Aug 24, 2022)

gLer said:


> Ooh, that's an interesting benefit indeed. I'll likely be getting the cradle soon, this suggests I may actually use it.


Well, the Cradle can offer a strangely precarious method of holding the Walkman? Meaning some have given up on it as there (in-a-way) is no way to fully know your Walkman is truly joined, except by the addition on the Walkmans charge light going on. Meaning your placing your Walkman device on a recessed multi-pin. That multi-pin is on a spring to allow the Walkman to tilt from right to left. Only even if it is not fully mounted, the Walkman will also tilt from right to left. So there is always a chance you will let go of the Walkman and it will topple over. I use the charge light to as to verification of mounting. Also after a while you kinda of understand that it’s mounted without using the looking at charge light method. But newly acquired, it’s use can be sketchy!


----------



## gLer

Redcarmoose said:


> Well, the Cradle can offer a strangely precarious method of holding the Walkman? Meaning some have given up on it as there (in-a-way) is no way to fully know your Walkman is truly joined, except by the addition on the Walkmans charge light going on. Meaning your placing your Walkman device on a recessed multi-pin. That multi-pin is on a spring to allow the Walkman to tilt from right to left. Only even if it is not fully mounted, the Walkman will also tilt from right to left. So there is always a chance you will let go of the Walkman and it will topple over. I use the charge light to as to verification of mounting. Also after a while you kinda of understand that it’s mounted without using the looking at charge light method. But newly acquired, it’s use can be sketchy!


Will the Walkman fit with a silicone cover in place? If not it's a no-go for me regardless of utility.


----------



## Hinomotocho

gLer said:


> Will the Walkman fit with a silicone cover in place? If not it's a no-go for me regardless of utility.


I never tried before assuming it was too thick. When using the dock I would switch to the TPU case, but it does actually fit, and have the benefit of providing a secure fit preventing movement when using the screen. 

Pardon my dust


----------



## Redcarmoose (Aug 24, 2022)

gLer said:


> Will the Walkman fit with a silicone cover in place? If not it's a no-go for me regardless of utility.


I would not know, as I only have the included case and another leather case. The included case fits onto the Cradle while joined with the Walkman. Maybe someone who has a silicone cover could chime in? There is room it seems, but you know how stuff like that is, where it only fits if it fits.


----------



## Kiats

Enjoying a lazy Saturday evening with the Focal Utopia off the TAZ. I find that the Utopia benefits from the sweet tonality and slight warmth of the TAZ, while maintaining its great transparency.


----------



## Sp12er3

Hmmm for some reason when I run my 420ohm 100db/mW Audio Technica ADX5000 on Unbal with the stock cable, Its on the same dB level as on the 4.4 Bal out. 
About -37 to -27 dB for movies and music and -25 to -19dB for gaming. 
Kinda weird.


----------



## gLer

Hey guys, for you who use the NWH10 cradle, do you use it with a spacer when connecting the OG WM1Z or 1A? I have a cradle but didn't get it with the spacers and there's a bit of wiggle room with the WM1Z that I'm concerned might stress/damage the connector over time.


----------



## Hinomotocho

gLer said:


> Hey guys, for you who use the NWH10 cradle, do you use it with a spacer when connecting the OG WM1Z or 1A? I have a cradle but didn't get it with the spacers and there's a bit of wiggle room with the WM1Z that I'm concerned might stress/damage the connector over time.


Same, I think the spacer is for the thinner profile Walkmans. As the post above: with the silicon case it's a tight fit but seems to keep it stable.


----------



## Kiats

Hinomotocho said:


> Same, I think the spacer is for the thinner profile Walkmans. As the post above: with the silicon case it's a tight fit but seems to keep it stable.


I actually have this dock as well. I can’t recall why but I suspect it was irrational exuberance when I first got the TAZ. 🙊 But my TAZ is about 6 feet away from where I sit, I am just not sure if I could meaningfully control the 1A/1Z in the dock.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Aug 29, 2022)

gLer said:


> Hey guys, for you who use the NWH10 cradle, do you use it with a spacer when connecting the OG WM1Z or 1A? I have a cradle but didn't get it with the spacers and there's a bit of wiggle room with the WM1Z that I'm concerned might stress/damage the connector over time.





Hinomotocho said:


> Same, I think the spacer is for the thinner profile Walkmans. As the post above: with the silicon case it's a tight fit but seems to keep it stable.


Spacers are for other devices other than the 1A/1Z, as far as I know. The wiggle is the spring action of the multi-pin, normal. The Walkmans don’t fit firm as that would put too much pressure on the connection pins. Thus the wiggle is good, but you have to make sure it’s the right style of wiggle and not the loose style, which means your Walkman is not actually mounted.

Which means don’t let go of the Walkman until your positive it’s seated. I used the charge light, or the fully charged indicator at the beginning. Later you kind of know when your Cradle and Walkman are joined.

Enjoy!


----------



## Kiats

Sp12er3 said:


> Hmmm for some reason when I run my 420ohm 100db/mW Audio Technica ADX5000 on Unbal with the stock cable, Its on the same dB level as on the 4.4 Bal out.
> About -37 to -27 dB for movies and music and -25 to -19dB for gaming.
> Kinda weird.


Same pair of headphones on 4.4 balanced out?


----------



## gLer

Hinomotocho said:


> Same, I think the spacer is for the thinner profile Walkmans. As the post above: with the silicon case it's a tight fit but seems to keep it stable.


For me there's still some wiggle room even with the silicone case. Excuse the dust but you can see the 1-2mm gap in the pic below. It's probably fine, just being overly cautious. Thanks for the other replies above.





Also, I thought read somewhere that PC audio passthrough (from PC to Taz) was possible, but try as I may I can't see how it is. What is nice is being able to manage files on the Walkman by connecting my smartphone to the PC socket.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Kiats said:


> I actually have this dock as well. I can’t recall why but I suspect it was irrational exuberance when I first got the TAZ. 🙊 But my TAZ is about 6 feet away from where I sit, I am just not sure if I could meaningfully control the 1A/1Z in the dock.


I actually got the dock before getting my TA, it popped up on a local auction listing for about a third of what I would have had to pay to import a secondhand one from overseas. 
The remote is useful with dock usage but as I often change albums a lot I still need to frequently navigate using the screen.


gLer said:


> For me there's still some wiggle room even with the silicone case. Excuse the dust but you can see the 1-2mm gap in the pic below. It's probably fine, just being overly cautious. Thanks for the other replies above.
> 
> ​
> Also, I thought read somewhere that PC audio passthrough (from PC to Taz) was possible, but try as I may I can't see how it is. What is nice is being able to manage files on the Walkman by connecting my smartphone to the PC socket.


I have that clear case but acknowledge it as the tpu case, I thought you were talking about the silicon one like I posted at the top of the page which is thicker.
From memory you can only transfer from PC to Walkman, I had hoped for passthrough but I don't think it is possible unfortunately.


----------



## Redcarmoose (Aug 29, 2022)

You have to switch the switch over. Either the PC to Walkman or PC to TA. You can’t have it both ways simultaneously.


Hinomotocho said:


> I actually got the dock before getting my TA, it popped up on a local auction listing for about a third of what I would have had to pay to import a secondhand one from overseas.
> The remote is useful with dock usage but as I often change albums a lot I still need to frequently navigate using the screen.
> 
> I have that clear case but acknowledge it as the tpu case, I thought you were talking about the silicon one like I posted at the top of the page which is thicker.
> From memory you can only transfer from PC to Walkman, I had hoped for passthrough but I don't think it is possible unfortunately.


----------



## gLer

Redcarmoose said:


> You have to switch the switch over. Either the PC to Walkman or PC to TA. You can’t have it both ways simultaneously.


There is no PC to TA, it's either PC to Walkman (bidirectional micro USB port), or Walkman to TA (USB-A port).


----------



## Redcarmoose

I’m positive that I used a micro-USB and hooked the PC to my TA? Wow? Let’s check? 


gLer said:


> There is no PC to TA, it's either PC to Walkman (bidirectional micro USB port), or Walkman to TA (USB-A port).


----------



## gLer

Redcarmoose said:


> I’m positive that I used a micro-USB and hooked the PC to my TA? Wow? Let’s check?


What I mean is, via the cradle...


----------



## Redcarmoose (Aug 29, 2022)

gLer said:


> What I mean is, via the cradle...


No, I know. So sorry...........as I thought that was why you were buying it. To run the Walkman/PC (into TA) or load songs onto the Walkman. I just tried it, and I was wrong.....actually both nc8000 and I were wrong! It only loads songs from your PC/Mac (to the Walkman) and allows the Walkman to play directly into the TA. But no PC/Mac to TA? So sorry I  suggested it would work.  

*No PC/Mac pass through!

I could have sworn it worked? *

Hopefully you will hear a difference in running your Walkmans into the TA, especially with a different USB cable! There are groups of people who believe in that difference. That’s what I use it for.


----------



## gLer

Redcarmoose said:


> No, I know. So sorry...........as I thought that was why you were buying it. To run the Walkman/PC (into TA) or load songs onto the Walkman. I just tried it, and I was wrong.....actually both nc8000 and I were wrong! It only loads songs from your PC/Mac (to the Walkman) and allows the Walkman to play directly into the TA. But no PC/Mac to TA? So sorry I  suggested it would work.
> 
> *No PC/Mac pass through!
> 
> ...


Hi, thanks for confirming and no stress! It'll be convenient to hook it up to my smartphone and do my file management without having to connect directly to the Walkman. I didn't buy it for sound improvement, I'm more than happy with the sound as-is with the stock and inexpensive aftermarket USB cables.


----------



## Sp12er3 (Aug 29, 2022)

Kiats said:


> Same pair of headphones on 4.4 balanced out?


Yeah same headphone, about same volumes on both Unbal and bal out.


Redcarmoose said:


> *No PC/Mac pass through!
> 
> I could have sworn it worked? *
> 
> Hopefully you will hear a difference in running your Walkmans into the TA, especially with a different USB cable! There are groups of people who believe in that difference. That’s what I use it for.


So it won't work for me sadly. Well no matter, I've already fully utilizing all the inputs and outputs of the TA anyway. 

The front outputs is so convenient I'm tempted to never disconnect the cables from the amp and instead disconnect from the headphone part when I store them. So it's more convenient when swapping cans. 
The winding and unwinding of the cables were always the longest part about switching headphone for me.


----------



## Redcarmoose

I heard that before about the TA. 


Sp12er3 said:


> Yeah same headphone, about same volumes on both Unbal and bal out.
> 
> So it won't work for me sadly. Well no matter, I've already fully utilizing all the inputs and outputs of the TA anyway.
> 
> ...


----------



## Redcarmoose

Sp12er3 said:


> Yeah same headphone, about same volumes on both Unbal and bal out.
> 
> So it won't work for me sadly. Well no matter, I've already fully utilizing all the inputs and outputs of the TA anyway.
> 
> ...


Also you don’t have to use that expensive special cable Sony includes. A regular micro USB will work.


----------



## Sp12er3

Yeah been wanting to try connecting other DAPs or even my phone to it.
Sadly can't use the USB dac mode while Bluetooth receiver mode is on huh, I wonder, does @MrWalkman 's FW able to lift that limitation?


----------



## gLer

Sp12er3 said:


> Yeah been wanting to try connecting other DAPs or even my phone to it.
> Sadly can't use the USB dac mode while Bluetooth receiver mode is on huh, I wonder, does @MrWalkman 's FW able to lift that limitation?


Sadly no, I asked him for the same thing. That would have been a killer feature.


----------



## Sp12er3

gLer said:


> Sadly no, I asked him for the same thing. That would have been a killer feature.


Yeah right now just using my old BTR3 to the line in for Bluetooth use, it has LDAC support and everything from it is gonna be upsampled again by the TA anyway. 
Small Bluetooth USB dac/amp like these are so versatile, I'd recommend this type more than trying any dongle DAC.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Sp12er3 said:


> Yeah right now just using my old BTR3 to the line in for Bluetooth use, it has LDAC support and everything from it is gonna be upsampled again by the TA anyway.
> Small Bluetooth USB dac/amp like these are so versatile, I'd recommend this type more than trying any dongle DAC.


When I had the idea to get more listening time with my TA by using it for movies I realised my 1A/1Z wouldn't output while streaming a bluetooth signal unfortunately. I tested with my BTR5 which didn't sound half bad using a budget 3.5mm to RCA cable but wanted a more quality method so got myself a BTA30. It offers a stronger range and a choice of ways to connect that would be a step up from the 3.5mm output.


----------



## Sp12er3

Hinomotocho said:


> When I had the idea to get more listening time with my TA by using it for movies I realised my 1A/1Z wouldn't output while streaming a bluetooth signal unfortunately. I tested with my BTR5 which didn't sound half bad using a budget 3.5mm to RCA cable but wanted a more quality method so got myself a BTA30. It offers a stronger range and a choice of ways to connect that would be a step up from the 3.5mm output.


Yeah right now just using a simple AudioQuest Evergreen RCA to 3.5mm to connect it, I have no use for BTA30's other connections and the reason I bought the Tazzy is to consolidate everything into one system solution anyway. More range would be nice tho. Early metal housing Fiios has a bit of a range issue.


----------



## Hinomotocho

Sp12er3 said:


> Yeah right now just using a simple AudioQuest Evergreen RCA to 3.5mm to connect it, I have no use for BTA30's other connections and the reason I bought the Tazzy is to consolidate everything into one system solution anyway. More range would be nice tho. Early metal housing Fiios has a bit of a range issue.


Before being able to source a TA I tried the iFi Neo iDSD and the Topping DX7 Pro which had bluetooth built in and I thought I'd never use it, after a month of owning the TA I was looking for a bluetooth solution 

The BTR3 gave me connection issues so went for the BTR5 which still had the same weak range but always auto-connected and was a decent step up for SQ. At the time I got my MDR-Z1R I wasn't up for spending a lot more money so I tried just amping my WM1A with some low cost amps using the Evergreen cable. I'm actually thinking of buying it again to try a different flavour amping my WM1Z through my TA. The thing with amping the Walkman is you have to remember to turn the volume back down, gave myself a shock the next time I used with volume at 100


----------



## gLer

I now have:

- Chromecast Audio connected to optical in for 24/96 lossless WiFi playback

- USB-C to B cable connected to PC in for full range lossless pairing to my smartphone (which has UAPP, Plex and other ways to access my 6TB UPnP library)

- Sony cradle connected to Walkman in for WM1Z pairing

I reckon I have just about every input method covered I could ever need! 🤭


----------



## nc8000

gLer said:


> I now have:
> 
> - Chromecast Audio connected to optical in for 24/96 lossless WiFi playback
> 
> ...


I’ve got my Auralic Aries Mini with 4TB ssd and build in Tidal client connected to the rear usb and optical from the bed room tv


----------



## Hinomotocho

gLer said:


> I now have:
> 
> - Chromecast Audio connected to optical in for 24/96 lossless WiFi playback
> 
> ...


Have you used for movie audio? For convenience I often use my BTR5 but when I have a decent soundtrack or blockbuster I'll use the BTA30/TA - the bass and soundstage take it up a notch.


----------



## gLer

Hinomotocho said:


> Have you used for movie audio? For convenience I often use my BTR5 but when I have a decent soundtrack or blockbuster I'll use the BTA30/TA - the bass and soundstage take it up a notch.


No, I have a Yamaha full size 5.1 HT system for movies. I rarely watch movies anywhere else.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Aug 29, 2022)

gLer said:


> No, I have a Yamaha full size 5.1 HT system for movies. I rarely watch movies anywhere else.


Haha, nice, forget I asked. I share a wall so headphones are my only world.


----------



## Kiats

Hinomotocho said:


> Have you used for movie audio? For convenience I often use my BTR5 but when I have a decent soundtrack or blockbuster I'll use the BTA30/TA - the bass and soundstage take it up a notch.


I have actually been using my BTA30 Pro to receive audio from the TV when I watch Youtube MVs late at night. and it's great to listen to them via my HPs.


----------



## Kiats

For me, I have been using the following connections to the TAZ:

1. Chromcast Audio into the optical input
2. FiiO BTA30 Pro into the coaxial input
3. iFi Zen Stream into the USB DAC input

Works pretty well for me. No complaints.


----------



## Sp12er3

It ain't any cleaner but just had fun jamming to some tunes early in the morning. 
Literally able to plug any headphones I want and swapping them on the fly 😁 just so convenient! 
Was surprised at how good the ADX5000 is on Lo-Fi 🤣


----------



## Sp12er3 (Aug 30, 2022)

Me I'm still with:
1.PC through USB
2.PS4Pro through Optical
3.TV through Coax
4.BTR3 through RCA
5.WM1A through Walkman port

Haven't found any need for the Bluetooth connection yet as I can play YouTube and Spotify through either the PS4 or TV very quickly. but it's handy to know it's there when I need it by just turning on the Fiio.


----------



## Vamp898

TA-ZH1ES have been officially discontinued in Japan. It is now listed under the "Past" products on the Sony Website.

https://www.sony.jp/audio/lineup/past.html

And is no longer sold at no retailer.


----------



## Kiats

Vamp898 said:


> TA-ZH1ES have been officially discontinued in Japan. It is now listed under the "Past" products on the Sony Website.
> 
> https://www.sony.jp/audio/lineup/past.html
> 
> And is no longer sold at no retailer.


Yeah... that sounds about right. I suspect I bought one of the last in the wild in Asia... A good friend of mine ordered his from Sony and then they had to refund cos they just could not find stock. 

Excuse me while I go and I show the TAZ some TLC.


----------



## Vamp898 (Aug 30, 2022)

Kiats said:


> Yeah... that sounds about right. I suspect I bought one of the last in the wild in Asia... A good friend of mine ordered his from Sony and then they had to refund cos they just could not find stock.
> 
> Excuse me while I go and I show the TAZ some TLC.


But here is the thing.

It went out of stock very abrupt, like over nigh... that is usually not a good thing with Sony.

Normally they release, announce or at leaste tease an successor.

The experience of the last 10 year has shown that, if Sony discontinues an product, without at least announcing an succesor, means there will be none.

The Japanese Homepage now just shows, that Sony doesn't offer Headhpone Amps. The whole section is gone.

I hope im wrong though, but i am still waiting for an successor to the STR-DN1080 for like 3 years since it has been discontinued, my hopes are slowly going.

Also therei is no successor to the TA-A1ES. So Sony offers neither an Headhpone Amp, nor an Speaker Amp right now.

Maybe Sony considers the new Walkman good enough to replace the TA-ZH1ES and sees no need to prodcuing it any further with the competing offers on the market.


----------



## gLer

Vamp898 said:


> TA-ZH1ES have been officially discontinued in Japan. It is now listed under the "Past" products on the Sony Website.
> 
> https://www.sony.jp/audio/lineup/past.html
> 
> And is no longer sold at no retailer.





Vamp898 said:


> But here is the thing.
> 
> It went out of stock very abrupt, like over nigh... that is usually not a good thing with Sony.
> 
> ...


Interesting, makes me feel very fortunate to have a Taz. Could also mean the desktop market in Japan is shrinking, or Sony sees no value in desktop products in Japan. They really mainly cater to the Japanese market nowadays, and there's likely too much cheap competition from China for a $2000-level desktop device.


----------



## Vamp898

gLer said:


> Interesting, makes me feel very fortunate to have a Taz. Could also mean the desktop market in Japan is shrinking, or Sony sees no value in desktop products in Japan. They really mainly cater to the Japanese market nowadays, and there's likely too much cheap competition from China for a $2000-level desktop device.


Yes, in my experience, the Desktop Market is pretty much not existing in Japan. Everyone is about portable devices because you can carry them with you and listen anywhere.

It is not just Sony, a lot of other big and namefull brands stopped developing their Headphone Amps except for the most expensive/largest version.

LUXMAN also stopped pretty much all of its products and most Japanese don't care about Over Ear Headphones anyway.

The only reason to get an desktop amp, for the most japanese i've met so far, was the higher sound quality. But with the current portable offerings, the only differnce is the power output.

Most Desktop Amp these days are insane. Some of the options on the Market can blow the Hifiman Susvara on Low-Gain. Some people even plug the Susvara into 20W Speaker Amps, one slip on the volume dial and these things just burst into flames... i don't understand people these days. Maybe im getting to old. Some of the Headphone Amps can even drive Bookshelf Speakers.

Anyway^^ i think since the release of the WM1ZM2, the advantage in sound quality (at least what i've read in reviews) of desktop amps is pretty much gone.

So with power beeing the main reason to buy these, and nobody needs their power, they are pretty much doomed to day.

We even have portable players these days with 2.5x the output power of the TA-ZH1ES


----------



## Kiats

gLer said:


> Interesting, makes me feel very fortunate to have a Taz. Could also mean the desktop market in Japan is shrinking, or Sony sees no value in desktop products in Japan. They really mainly cater to the Japanese market nowadays, and there's likely too much cheap competition from China for a $2000-level desktop device.


Yeah… have to agree. The myriad of desktop amps from the mainland at low prices are shocking.


----------



## kefs

Vamp898 said:


> TA-ZH1ES have been officially discontinued in Japan. It is now listed under the "Past" products on the Sony Website.
> 
> https://www.sony.jp/audio/lineup/past.html
> 
> And is no longer sold at no retailer.


Lets face it, in this market, how many products sell unchanged for over 6 years, quite a feat really


----------



## Vamp898

Kiats said:


> Yeah… have to agree. The myriad of desktop amps from the mainland at low prices are shocking.


Most of these are not sold in Japan though. Even though Japan is the biggest Market, for whatever reason, the only one so far that really got into this market was FiiO with their K9 Pro.


----------



## mang72

Kiats said:


> Yeah… have to agree. The myriad of desktop amps from the mainland at low prices are shocking.


I am pretty late to theTAZ party but also feel very fortunate to have one and enjoy using it. Even tho I have the 1AM2 walkman I still nearly always go to the TAZ for an at home session. I enjoy both products very much.


----------



## camera

I hope that the successor of TAZ will be exhibited in the coming IFA (Sep 2 to Sep 6).


----------



## Gamerlingual

camera said:


> I hope that the successor of TAZ will be exhibited in the coming IFA (Sep 2 to Sep 6).


The DMP could be a considered a current headphone amp. I expect that they’ll have one here in the future. There many kinds of pricey headphones I’ve seen at yodobashi camera and E-Earphone. There’s still a big demand for headphone amps of any size. So never say never with Sony


----------



## Kiats

mang72 said:


> I am pretty late to theTAZ party but also feel very fortunate to have one and enjoy using it. Even tho I have the 1AM2 walkman I still nearly always go to the TAZ for an at home session. I enjoy both products very much.


As do I. Heck! I even enjoy the TAZ as a DAC for my KGSSHV Carbon amp for my Stax earspeakers, especially the 009/009S. And the TAZ is gorgeous for the HD800S/HD800 and Utopia.


----------



## iFi audio

Kiats said:


> 3. iFi Zen Stream into the USB DAC input



If I may ask, how was our ZEN Stream in your setup? Any good  ?


----------



## Vamp898

I still have high hopes for the GaN S-Master HX from the SA-Z1 which no longer needs the analog amp.

So I'm the list person who does not want an successor to the TA-ZH1ES, it's, imho, the best Sound you can get


----------



## Vamp898

camera said:


> I hope that the successor of TAZ will be exhibited in the coming IFA (Sep 2 to Sep 6).


I've read that Sony is not attending the IFA due to COVID19


----------



## iFi audio

Vamp898 said:


> GaN S-Master HX



Do you by any chance know what the acronym GaN stands for? No too much info about the device itself from what I can see. Any help is appreciated!


----------



## Vamp898

iFi audio said:


> Do you by any chance know what the acronym GaN stands for? No too much info about the device itself from what I can see. Any help is appreciated!


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium_nitride

Infineon also uses GaN for some Digital Amps, but it is used in lots of things, especially in space equipment.

It switches faster than MOSFET, that means it has higher output power with lower distortion at the same time.


----------



## Gamerlingual

iFi audio said:


> Do you by any chance know what the acronym GaN stands for? No too much info about the device itself from what I can see. Any help is appreciated!


It’s used a lot in fast charging plugs that are USB-C


----------



## camera

Vamp898 said:


> I've read that Sony is not attending the IFA due to COVID19


Oh, 1-2 weeks ago, Sony was still in the list of exhibitors; minutes ago, it was not there; too bad.


----------



## Kiats

iFi audio said:


> If I may ask, how was our ZEN Stream in your setup? Any good  ?



I pretty much enjoy the Zen Stream: I use it for Roon as well as Q Play (DLNA). Pity the Chromecast feature has not been turned on yet. That would be a killer feature I suspect.


----------



## Vamp898

camera said:


> Oh, 1-2 weeks ago, Sony was still in the list of exhibitors; minutes ago, it was not there; too bad.


But I doubt that this will keep them from releasing new stuff.


----------



## Kiats

Enjoying a evening of music on the HD800 with Crystal Piccolino balanced cables off the TAZ. Love the synergy!


----------



## iFi audio

Kiats said:


> I pretty much enjoy the Zen Stream: I use it for Roon as well as Q Play (DLNA). Pity the Chromecast feature has not been turned on yet. That would be a killer feature I suspect.



Thanks for the feedback and I hear you re Chromecast. If we can add this feature, we will, but there are no news on the subject at the moment 



Vamp898 said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium_nitride
> 
> Infineon also uses GaN for some Digital Amps, but it is used in lots of things, especially in space equipment.
> 
> It switches faster than MOSFET, that means it has higher output power with lower distortion at the same time.



I suspected galilium-nitride transistors in the product, but needed some confirmation, so thanks


----------



## Kiats

Giving the HD800S a run out with the TAZ on a sunny Saturday.


----------



## Kiats

The ES-R10 arrived yesterday. Gave it a good run out out on the TAZ. :Great synergy with the TAZ. Not surprising, considering the ES-R10 is an attempt to replicate the legendary MDR-R10.


----------



## gsiu33

nc8000 said:


> I think the only way you can check the fe version is to connect it to a pc and try to install the latest version. As I recall that shows what is currently installed


you can also hold the input button and press enter button 3 times, it will show the version number.


----------



## emilsoft

mang72 said:


> I am pretty late to theTAZ party but also feel very fortunate to have one and enjoy using it. Even tho I have the 1AM2 walkman I still nearly always go to the TAZ for an at home session. I enjoy both products very much.


Possible to provide a brief comparison between the two sound quality wise please? Is the TAZ substantially better - detail/separation/natural etc?


----------



## mang72

emilsoft said:


> Possible to provide a brief comparison between the two sound quality wise please? Is the TAZ substantially better - detail/separation/natural etc?


I am not very good at describing what I can hear, so sorry in advance. I have only had both of these units for a few months and came from my only listening device being a PHA-3 (which is now in the draw).  From my experience the TAZ seems to be better in most areas but particularly in detail retrieval, everything seems more open, there seems to be more space between the different sounds. The TAZ also seems to control the lower frequencies better, seems tighter and has better extension. The differences are more apparent when I have been listening to the TAZ for extended periods (like over a week) then come back to the M2. All listening is mostly on the MDR-Z1R. Also, I think at this level of gear the differences are small to me and enjoy both devices alot. Younger/Better ears may find a bigger difference, as well as someone who has a lot of experience with criticle listeing. So in summary I can definitely hear benifits from the desktop amp but both are great units. Sorry again for not being overly descriptive, I find it quite hard to articulate what I hear.


----------



## jonathan c

mang72 said:


> I am not very good at describing what I can hear, so sorry in advance. I have only had both of these units for a few months and came from my only listening device being a PHA-3 (which is now in the draw).  From my experience the TAZ seems to be better in most areas but particularly in detail retrieval, everything seems more open, there seems to be more space between the different sounds. The TAZ also seems to control the lower frequencies better, seems tighter and has better extension. The differences are more apparent when I have been listening to the TAZ for extended periods (like over a week) then come back to the M2. All listening is mostly on the MDR-Z1R. Also, I think at this level of gear the differences are small to me and enjoy both devices alot. Younger/Better ears may find a bigger difference, as well as someone who has a lot of experience with criticle listeing. So in summary I can definitely hear benifits from the desktop amp but both are great units. Sorry again for not being overly descriptive, I find it quite hard to articulate what I hear.


Nice job!


----------



## equalspeace

mang72 said:


> I am not very good at describing what I can hear, so sorry in advance. I have only had both of these units for a few months and came from my only listening device being a PHA-3 (which is now in the draw).  From my experience the TAZ seems to be better in most areas but particularly in detail retrieval, everything seems more open, there seems to be more space between the different sounds. The TAZ also seems to control the lower frequencies better, seems tighter and has better extension. The differences are more apparent when I have been listening to the TAZ for extended periods (like over a week) then come back to the M2. All listening is mostly on the MDR-Z1R. Also, I think at this level of gear the differences are small to me and enjoy both devices alot. Younger/Better ears may find a bigger difference, as well as someone who has a lot of experience with criticle listeing. So in summary I can definitely hear benifits from the desktop amp but both are great units. Sorry again for not being overly descriptive, I find it quite hard to articulate what I hear.



Yeah the TA-ZH1ES is the best audio purchase I've made. It is my precious... ha


----------



## camera

Hi guys, I'm going to test and buy a used TAZ.  Is there anything that I should pay attention to see if the TAZ is without problems?


----------



## mang72 (Sep 17, 2022)

camera said:


> Hi guys, I'm going to test and buy a used TAZ.  Is there anything that I should pay attention to see if the TAZ is without problems?


When I bought mine I made sure the voltage rating on the bottom of the unit matched my local power supply. These were sold internationally and had various voltage specs to suit. As far as other problems, none that I know of but I am a fairly new owner. Oh and watch your bank balance as these units have been known to increase non essential spending, it happened to me…


----------



## Kiats

@camera Not sure how critical this is to you, but you may want to check on the state of the remote. I have always thought that it is very convenient.


----------



## camera

mang72 said:


> When I bought mine I made sure the voltage rating on the bottom of the unit matched my local power supply. These were sold internationally and had various voltage specs to suit. As far as other problems, none that I know of but I am a fairly new owner. Oh and watch your bank balance as these units have been known to increase non essential spending, it happened to me…


Got it.  Thx.


Kiats said:


> @camera Not sure how critical this is to you, but you may want to check on the state of the remote. I have always thought that it is very convenient.


Oh, that is right, I was to forget the remote control.  Thanks for your reminder.


----------



## davidmthekidd

oh I did not know that the TAZ was discontinued recently according to the Sony website, also B&H is out of stock, any rumors of the next version anyone?


----------



## mang72

davidmthekidd said:


> oh I did not know that the TAZ was discontinued recently according to the Sony website, also B&H is out of stock, any rumors of the next version anyone?


I haven't heard or read anything. Will be interesting to see what Sony does with development of the new TAZ, thats if they do it at all.


----------



## askeladden

davidmthekidd said:


> oh I did not know that the TAZ was discontinued recently according to the Sony website, also B&H is out of stock, any rumors of the next version anyone?


It seems to be unobtanium in Europe these days.. even on the used market.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

davidmthekidd said:


> oh I did not know that the TAZ was discontinued recently according to the Sony website, also B&H is out of stock, any rumors of the next version anyone?


Crutchfield seems to still have them in stock. I just got mine from them about a month ago.


----------



## xenithon

I'm mostly enjoying the Tazzy with my headphones (Elite and SolP). Great clarity, detail retrieval, and stage size / width in particular. It does come across as a little lean and dry though; does not quite have the body and oomph / impact that I know the headphones are capable of (having listened to them on other amps).


----------



## endless402

xenithon said:


> I'm mostly enjoying the Tazzy with my headphones (Elite and SolP). Great clarity, detail retrieval, and stage size / width in particular. It does come across as a little lean and dry though; does not quite have the body and oomph / impact that I know the headphones are capable of (having listened to them on other amps).


Try a different power cable? Make sure you plug directly to the wall


----------



## Vamp898

xenithon said:


> I'm mostly enjoying the Tazzy with my headphones (Elite and SolP). Great clarity, detail retrieval, and stage size / width in particular. It does come across as a little lean and dry though; does not quite have the body and oomph / impact that I know the headphones are capable of (having listened to them on other amps).


You most likely mean the slower bass from analog amps.

There is an ""emulation"" for that called DC Phase Linerazior. Try enabling that and make sure you're on low gain unless the volume isn't sufficient enough


----------



## equalspeace

endless402 said:


> Try a different power cable? Make sure you plug directly to the wall



This.. And the cable at the USB can also make a difference.


----------



## bauce

Hey guys, I just joined the crew by getting one of these new on eBay for $1750. So far so good with my pair of Z1R's I bought a few weeks ago. I mostly listen to EDM, specifically DnB and some other stuff like Boris Brejcha. Im pretty new to high end audio stuff, does this amp require burn-in till it sounds optimal like the headphones? I couldn't believe how heavy this thing is compared to my Hifiman ef400.


----------



## bauce

I just found out that I can't play mqa through this. I see that some people have used an app called Amara Luxe but you need to EQ for it to sound right? Im new to this stuff and have no idea how to EQ. Is there an easier way to get this up and running with my Mac? I dont have any of my own music and would love to use the high quality music from Tidal.


----------



## nc8000

The TA does not have EQ so your source needs to do the EQ. Likewise the source needs to unfold the mqa stream as the TA is not a mqa renderer


----------



## Kiats

bauce said:


> I just found out that I can't play mqa through this. I see that some people have used an app called Amara Luxe but you need to EQ for it to sound right? Im new to this stuff and have no idea how to EQ. Is there an easier way to get this up and running with my Mac? I dont have any of my own music and would love to use the high quality music from Tidal.


The Tidal app itself would do the first unfold in any event. I primarily play music from my NAS and Tidal using Roon. Works nicely with the TAZ.


----------



## camera

I also got one TAZ in pristine condition today and it came with the dock, nice. I have been keeping an eye in the used market for few months but those TAZ are either in medicore condition or without box and remote etc. I am going to order one Curious cable soon.


----------



## bauce

nc8000 said:


> The TA does not have EQ so your source needs to do the EQ. Likewise the source needs to unfold the mqa stream as the TA is not a mqa renderer





Kiats said:


> The Tidal app itself would do the first unfold in any event. I primarily play music from my NAS and Tidal using Roon. Works nicely with the TAZ.


Just downloaded Audirvana and like it so far. Does something like Plex work for music too? I use plex for all my 4k movies and love it. Guessing even if it does music it won’t be as good as Roon or Audirvana.


----------



## Doug2507

Do any of you guys know if there's an audio delay present if you used a USB-C to USB-B OTG from external source running through TAZ? Wondering if I can plug my tablet in and use TAZ for movie duty....


----------



## gLer

Doug2507 said:


> Do any of you guys know if there's an audio delay present if you used a USB-C to USB-B OTG from external source running through TAZ? Wondering if I can plug my tablet in and use TAZ for movie duty....


Very, very slight delay using my phone and YT with USB-C to B. Hardly noticeable.


----------



## The1Signature

Doug2507 said:


> Wondering if I can plug my tablet in and use TAZ for movie duty


i tried the same and yes, there is a slight delay. especially once you recognize it, you focus only on the lips and delay of sound


----------



## jonathan c

The1Signature said:


> i tried the same and yes, there is a slight delay. especially once you recognize it, you focus only on the lips and delay of sound


….the kung fu flicks of the 1970s….🥋….


----------



## The1Signature

now after i sold my mdr-z1r, i connected today my meze elite with the taz and it sounds just amazing, really. i am doing the burn-in right know and feel like being in heaven


----------



## davidmthekidd

Anyone paired ifi Zen streamer with Taz? I would like to integrate Roon with my Taz, any thoughts or comments. If yes, which cable our outputs would you suggest.


----------



## gLer

davidmthekidd said:


> Anyone paired ifi Zen streamer with Taz? I would like to integrate Roon with my Taz, any thoughts or comments. If yes, which cable our outputs would you suggest.


Should work fine. Just use USB-B for best compatibility.


----------



## Kiats

davidmthekidd said:


> Anyone paired ifi Zen streamer with Taz? I would like to integrate Roon with my Taz, any thoughts or comments. If yes, which cable our outputs would you suggest.


I've been using it via USB DAC into the TAZ.


----------



## endless402

Try both coax and usb…see which One you like more


----------



## Sp12er3

I've been consistently feeling the optical in is worse than the coax, anyone feeling the same? or is it simply the source? But neither are "good" source, the optical is a ps4pro and coax is a smart TV, but the ps4 often sound drier, more lean and harsh to me.


----------



## Lookout57

Sp12er3 said:


> I've been consistently feeling the optical in is worse than the coax, anyone feeling the same? or is it simply the source? But neither are "good" source, the optical is a ps4pro and coax is a smart TV, but the ps4 often sound drier, more lean and harsh to me.


That might be due to the optical supporting lower bit rates than the coax.


----------



## endless402

My experience, when I was using a matrix spdif 2, where it outputs both coaxial and optical from a usb input,  I found optical provided slightly more dynamic bass but the overall presentation was lean and therefore less engaging. 

Optical cable was aq diamond and coaxial was kimber d60


----------



## davidmthekidd

My current flow with taz is to plug it directly to the PC using the DIGITAL (Optical) input, or via the walkman port. I would love to use USB for better integration with TAZ and the PC, but man, my 3080 bleeds a ton noise, whenever I switch to power speakers and raise the volume, I can hear the CPU , hence why I use Optical, all that goes away with optical. Recently I came across this little device called IFI iSilencer+, I wanted to if any of you have used this device. My old Audioquest Jitterburg helps but not enough, it cuts down the CPU/GPU noise by half but still audible.

https://ifi-audio.com/products/isilencer-plus/
or
https://ifi-audio.com/products/idefender-plus/


----------



## Vamp898

Sp12er3 said:


> I've been consistently feeling the optical in is worse than the coax, anyone feeling the same? or is it simply the source? But neither are "good" source, the optical is a ps4pro and coax is a smart TV, but the ps4 often sound drier, more lean and harsh to me.


When i watch an BluRay and directly compare the COAX BluRay Player to the Opitcal from the TV, there is like an 0.5% difference but it could be just my brain.

I use COAX because its the more stable connection (the optical easily gets loose) for sound important things like live BluRay and optical for everything else including games and so far, the difference is too small so i would say i really hear it.

So it most likely is a source issue


----------



## Sp12er3 (Oct 4, 2022)

Yeah, thing is the smart tv is a Chinese super cheap one, so I wonder how the ps4pro can be worse than it, it might also be because of software tho, like somehow the PS4 Spotify app are streaming at lower bit rate? Don't think either version of the app are that well made seeing how old they are.

I also only first heard the difference on transparent gear like my ADX5000 and KSE1200, I hear nothing of it with my T1 and Z1Rs before then.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Speaking of Optical, do you guys get the bit depth information? currently I can only see the sample rate, but the Bit depth is dashed, any thoughts? Source PC/via Optical Cable.


----------



## gLer

davidmthekidd said:


> Speaking of Optical, do you guys get the bit depth information? currently I can only see the sample rate, but the Bit depth is dashed, any thoughts? Source PC/via Optical Cable.


Have you tried changing display type with your remote?


----------



## davidmthekidd

gLer said:


> Have you tried changing display type with your remote?


I have, But that doesn't show the audio Bit Depth, weird isnt? I can see it via walkman or USB, I dont have spdif.


----------



## gLer

davidmthekidd said:


> I have, But that doesn't show the audio Bit Depth, weird isnt? I can see it via walkman or USB, I dont have spdif.


What's your input source?


----------



## davidmthekidd

gLer said:


> What's your input source?


My PC, via Digital Optical. I triple checked all the settings under the control panel for audio and nothing helps, wonder if any of you are using Optical; if answer is yes, can you see the sample rate Plus the Bit Depth information?


----------



## gLer

davidmthekidd said:


> My PC, via Digital Optical. I triple checked all the settings under the control panel for audio and nothing helps, wonder if any of you are using Optical; if answer is yes, can you see the sample rate Plus the Bit Depth information?


Same here, only the sample rate (44.1/88.2/96) not the bitrate.


----------



## davidmthekidd

gLer said:


> Same here, only the sample rate (44.1/88.2/96) not the bitrate.


OK, so its not just me. Sad, Optical sounds very clean, I can Crank up the volume to 11 via my Klipsch powered speakers and no HISS or noise, via USB i can hear my CPU doing math, every time I move the mouse I can hear noise; Thanks for replicating this for me gLer.


----------



## endless402

davidmthekidd said:


> Speaking of Optical, do you guys get the bit depth information? currently I can only see the sample rate, but the Bit depth is dashed, any thoughts? Source PC/via Optical Cable.


how did you get 192khz on optical? I thought sony was spec to 96khz max


----------



## davidmthekidd

endless402 said:


> how did you get 192khz on optical? I thought sony was spec to 96khz max


No it can go all the way up to 192Khz, might be motherboard dependent.


----------



## nc8000

davidmthekidd said:


> No it can go all the way up to 192Khz, might be motherboard dependent.


According to the official Sony spec optical in is limited to 96kHz and 24 bit, coax to 192kHZ and 24 bit, rear usb to 768kHz and 32 bit and Walkman side entry to 384kHz and 32 bit


----------



## davidmthekidd

nc8000 said:


> According to the official Sony spec optical in is limited to 96kHz and 24 bit, coax to 192kHZ and 24 bit, rear usb to 768kHz and 32 bit and Walkman side entry to 384kHz and 32 bit


Ic, not sure, I am getting 192Khz tho, maybe it was expended with later firmware's such as 1.03.


----------



## davidmthekidd

Here's another pic indicating the signal flow of DSD64 - PCM conversion from Roon to Taz via Optical Toslink.


----------



## bauce

Lookout57 said:


> Best practice is to keep all AC cords as far away from all signal cables as the RF and EMI from the AC cables will effect the signal cables.


Ive been reading this thread over a week or so and just ran into this post. Im hoping reading this fixes my new issue I ran into today that's been driving me mad. I re-ran my cables yesterday to be more streamlined and didnt know the power cable could cause problems. For this first time I let me TA run overnight with my ZR1. All day I was thinking I did some harm to the amp because I am getting weird distortion after running it over night. Hoping for the best tomorrow after I separate the USB and power cable.


----------



## Sp12er3

Anyone know what's the output impedance of the 3.5mm and 4.4bal is? Tried plugging Andromeda to the 3.5mm and damn its thin and bright.


----------



## nc8000

Sp12er3 said:


> Anyone know what's the output impedance of the 3.5mm and 4.4bal is? Tried plugging Andromeda to the 3.5mm and damn its thin and bright.


Sony never publishes output impedance numbers. Don’t know if anybody has tried to measure it


----------



## Sp12er3

The 4.4 Is good tho, but I've also changed the cable to a pure copper one hmm. 
The problem of very low Impedance Multi BAs.


----------



## nc8000

Sp12er3 said:


> The 4.4 Is good tho, but I've also changed the cable to a pure copper one hmm.
> The problem of very low Impedance Multi BAs.


I’ve actually never used the 3.5 as all my phones support 4.4


----------



## Kiats

nc8000 said:


> I’ve actually never used the 3.5 as all my phones support 4.4


True… Since the 1A/1Z, where the 4.4mm output was where the Sony team seems to focus their work on, I’ve moved over to 4.4mm balanced plugs.


----------



## Sp12er3

I still use SE connections as my ADX' only long cable is on 6.3mm jack, that headphone is also where I find the anomaly where I need the same volume driving it on SE as I do on Balanced, for some inexplicable reason.


----------



## Sp12er3 (Oct 8, 2022)

Edit: Nevermind, found the model number of the spinfit. 


Sp12er3 said:


> Anyone know what's the output impedance of the 3.5mm and 4.4bal is? Tried plugging Andromeda to the 3.5mm and damn its thin and bright.


Well seeing how bright and thin the Andromeda are on SE I can be pretty sure it's above 2 ohm
While the 4.4 it can be 1ohm and up


----------



## davidmthekidd

Wanted to ask, is the cradle model for wm1z BCR-NWH10? I ordered one used from ebay, just wanted to make sure.


----------



## nc8000

davidmthekidd said:


> Wanted to ask, is the cradle model for wm1z BCR-NWH10? I ordered one used from ebay, just wanted to make sure.


Yes that’s the one and as I understand it the only Sony cradle. They have a simpler stand where you just route a normal WM port cable


----------



## Hinomotocho

Kiats said:


> True… Since the 1A/1Z, where the 4.4mm output was where the Sony team seems to focus their work on, I’ve moved over to 4.4mm balanced plugs.


I just upgraded from my Fiio BTR5 with 2.5mm balanced to the BTR7 with 4.4mm so I am now 4.4mm all the way. My Linkbuds S cater for my S10 phone and tablet that still have 3.5mm. I got the ZX300 when it was first realeased and started the transition back then. It is a nice solid connector, that has now made its way to dongles.


----------



## tonimccloud

Is it possible to connect the TA-ZH1ES to ps5 via usb? Does the console recognize it? Thanks


----------



## Wikinaut

tonimccloud said:


> Is it possible to connect the TA-ZH1ES to ps5 via usb? Does the console recognize it? Thanks


No, if you Google you'll find that PS4/5 require a UAC1 DAC. You can bridge it via optical. I'm just in the process of doing that myself. Will report back on the results.


----------



## Sp12er3

Ps4pro Optical with Tazzy is just fine, sadly the playstation Spotify app are just bad. Sound thin, harsh and sibilant. 
Just use it for gaming and it's fine.


----------



## Wikinaut

Sp12er3 said:


> Ps4pro Optical with Tazzy is just fine, sadly the playstation Spotify app are just bad. Sound thin, harsh and sibilant.
> Just use it for gaming and it's fine.


Unfortunately, they got rid of the optical out on the PS5. So you have to use USB and it needs to be UAC1. But then it supports immersive 3D sound which is awesom.


----------



## davidmthekidd

PS3 used tp play SACD, too bad the newer consoles dont support the format -_-


----------



## ManoucheMH

I am using PS4 HDMI to Sony TV and 
Sony TV (w/ Spotify) Optical to TA ZH1ES.
(and TA ZH1ES to speakers)


----------



## Sp12er3

Yeah that should work also


----------



## The1Signature (Oct 31, 2022)

i am thinking of buying the naim uniti atom - headphone edition

does anybody have had the chance to test the combo with the taz?

i think the connection would be via cinch to cinch or any other way?!


----------



## nc8000

The1Signature said:


> i am thinking of buying the naim uniti atom - headphone edition
> 
> does anybody have had the chance to test the combo with the taz?
> 
> i think the connection would be via cinch to cinch or any other way?!


Are you intending to use it as a source into the TA or the TA as a source into this, I'm confused ?


----------



## The1Signature

nc8000 said:


> Are you intending to use it as a source into the TA or the TA as a source into this, I'm confused ?


i should hae written that: source = naim. naim has the internal streamer for qobuz and tidal etc. naim's output towards the taz. from taz to my earphones.
naim > taz > headphone


----------



## davidmthekidd

The1Signature said:


> i should hae written that: source = naim. naim has the internal streamer for qobuz and tidal etc. naim's output towards the taz. from taz to my earphones.
> naim > taz > headphone


Why this unit, for streaming you could use a ifi zen stream for cheaper.


----------



## nc8000

The1Signature said:


> i should hae written that: source = naim. naim has the internal streamer for qobuz and tidal etc. naim's output towards the taz. from taz to my earphones.
> naim > taz > headphone


The only output is rca which would have to go to the rca in on the TA so that would mean the Uniti would do digital to analog and then the TA would do analog to digital and then dital to analog so unless the Uniti has a specic feature you really need it seems to not be a good solution. I use a much cheaper Auralic Aries Mini as source for local files plus with the integrated Tidal client usb out to usb in on the TA.


----------



## The1Signature (Oct 31, 2022)

davidmthekidd said:


> Why this unit, for streaming you could use a ifi zen stream for cheaper.


yes, the zen streamer is cheaper. but the atom looks beautiful and is very well-made.



nc8000 said:


> The only output is rca which would have to go to the rca in on the TA so that would mean the Uniti would do digital to analog and then the TA would do analog to digital and then dital to analog so unless the Uniti has a specic feature you really need it seems to not be a good solution. I use a much cheaper Auralic Aries Mini as source for local files plus with the integrated Tidal client usb out to usb in on the TA.


indeed, this sounds not optimal. i thought there might be a way for: naim (digital) > taz (analog) or naim (digital to analog) > taz (amp).

but i have to confess, i would do nothing else with it than using i with the taz. i like focal and naim in general for their very high-quality standards, and it looks great, too.

the auralic aries mini and ifi zen stream do not support qobuz. so i will try another solution.


----------



## gLer

The1Signature said:


> yes, the zen streamer is cheaper. but the atom looks beautiful and is very well-made.
> 
> 
> indeed, this sounds not optimal. i thought there might be a way for: naim (digital) > taz (analog) or naim (digital to analog) > taz (amp).
> ...


Can't you connect Naim USB out to Taz USB in? There's no point connecting line in to Taz because line in signals get processed through Taz's 'DAC' anyway, from what I understand.


----------



## The1Signature

gLer said:


> Can't you connect Naim USB out to Taz USB in? There's no point connecting line in to Taz because line in signals get processed through Taz's 'DAC' anyway, from what I understand.


naim's usb is input (storage) only.

i may start with the ifi or auralic and tidal - quick and easy solution.


----------



## Whitigir

The1Signature said:


> naim's usb is input (storage) only.
> 
> i may start with the ifi or auralic and tidal - quick and easy solution.


I would stream with IPad Pro, mac book pro.  From all of my experiences, Apple OS must have done something crazy to the sound performances in their OS.  The Apple products always have better performances than any other devices that I have tried.


----------



## gLer

The1Signature said:


> naim's usb is input (storage) only.
> 
> i may start with the ifi or auralic and tidal - quick and easy solution.


That's bizarre. Why would you not provide a digital out from a streamer to a DAC!?


----------



## nc8000

gLer said:


> That's bizarre. Why would you not provide a digital out from a streamer to a DAC!?


Because it is mainly designed as a source/headphone amp stand alone unit just like the TA so only has analog out to power amp or active speakers


----------



## gLer

nc8000 said:


> Because it is mainly designed as a source/headphone amp stand alone unit just like the TA so only has analog out to power amp or active speakers


Fair enough, I wouldn't bother using it with the Taz then, personally.


----------



## nc8000

gLer said:


> Fair enough, I wouldn't bother using it with the Taz then, personally.


Neither would I unless it has a feature I need/want and can’t find in a more suitable device


----------



## Whitigir

Who knows ? May be the Naim is an improvement from TAZ ?


----------



## nc8000

Whitigir said:


> Who knows ? May be the Naim is an improvement from TAZ ?


Could be but then I’d just use it alone rather than feeding it into the TA. But I bet the 2 have very different sound sigs


----------



## Whitigir

nc8000 said:


> Could be but then I’d just use it alone rather than feeding it into the TA. But I bet the 2 have very different sound sigs


Yeah! That is what I meant.  I would be listening to both and then decide.  If I wanted to stream anything, I honestly would get a Mac Pro and do with TAZ


----------



## davidmthekidd

Now that the TAZ is discontinued, I am still holding off on a streaming device, I really hope there's a TazM2 with Roon support, I will wait until july 2023.


----------



## Whitigir (Oct 31, 2022)

davidmthekidd said:


> Now that the TAZ is discontinued, I am still holding off on a streaming device, I really hope there's a TazM2 with Roon support, I will wait until july 2023.


It may, or May be longer due to the on going circumstances around the globe, including supplies constrains, lock down….etc..


----------



## The1Signature

gLer said:


> That's bizarre. Why would you not provide a digital out from a streamer to a DAC!?


i thought i could use the naim later in a different setup, too. in this regard, i wanted to try a combo where i use the dac of the naim and amp of the taz.



nc8000 said:


> Because it is mainly designed as a source/headphone amp stand alone unit just like the TA so only has analog out to power amp or active speakers


but indeed, this solution does not make sense. the naim is a standalone device in my case.



nc8000 said:


> Neither would I unless it has a feature I need/want and can’t find in a more suitable device


it does not have any super specific feature that is unique.



Whitigir said:


> Who knows ? May be the Naim is an improvement from TAZ ?


i tried the naim only. no, it is really not an improvement. it is more about the convince of having an all-in-one device with a very nice finishing and screen.



Whitigir said:


> Mac Pro


i am in the windows world. i have the audioquest usb carbon cable thanks to your recommendation. and i will now buy the aq jitterbug fmj for my lenovo x1 carbon laptop and try this. plus i will buy the before mentioned streamer from ifi or auralic.


----------



## Hinomotocho (Nov 6, 2022)

Although I very rarely listen to my TA-ZH1ES it is a keeper and one day a lifestyle/job change will allow for regular listening time.
I had an opportunity to give the 1Z a rest and enjoy some sweet sounds, reconfirming it's 'keeper' status.







* crappy smartphone camera pic


----------



## davidmthekidd

I feel bad for my taz, it has to endure 12 hours a day from Monday to Friday of nonstop listening 😂😂😂😂😂


----------



## The1Signature

davidmthekidd said:


> I feel bad for my taz, it has to endure 12 hours a day from Monday to Friday of nonstop listening 😂😂😂😂😂


i think your taz is happy because this machine is exactly made for this


----------



## Kiats

The1Signature said:


> i think your taz is happy because this machine is exactly made for this


Yeah… means it is well loved. I am just using my TAZ as a source for KGSSHV Carbon into the Stax Omega. Although I have the Bricasti M1, I still enjoy the sound signature of the TAZ.


----------



## The1Signature (Nov 6, 2022)

Kiats said:


> I am just using my TAZ as a source


where comes the music from and how is it connected to the taz?


----------



## Kiats

The1Signature said:


> where comes the music from and is it connected to the taz?


I use the iFi Zen Stream and FiiO BTA30 Pro. Alternative I have is via USB DAC from a Melco NA100 (which is Roon Ready). 

Of course, I use TAZ for normal headphones as well.


----------



## iFi audio

Kiats said:


> I use the iFi Zen Stream and FiiO BTA30 Pro.



I trust that this works well for you  ?


----------



## Kiats

iFi audio said:


> I trust that this works well for you  ?


No complaints thus far. Well, for the iFI ZS, the USB goes into the TAZ (for Roon and QPlay), whilst the coaxial goes into my Bricasti and I use it primarily for QQ Music via QPlay. Would Chromecast be a welcome addition? Absolutely!


----------



## The1Signature

windows 10 laptop > aq carbon (uscb-c) > taz

waspi exlusive, directsound, asio = 48hz / 16 bit
wasapi = 48hz / 32 bit

is there a way to change it to the actual sq from qobuz? the album / playlist is actually 192hz / 24 bit.


----------



## iFi audio

Kiats said:


> No complaints thus far. Well, for the iFI ZS, the USB goes into the TAZ (for Roon and QPlay), whilst the coaxial goes into my Bricasti and I use it primarily for QQ Music via QPlay. Would Chromecast be a welcome addition? Absolutely!



I hear you re Chromecast and many people would like to have it, but we have no news on the matter. Thanks for your feedback nonetheless


----------



## davidmthekidd

The1Signature said:


> windows 10 laptop > aq carbon (uscb-c) > taz
> 
> waspi exlusive, directsound, asio = 48hz / 16 bit
> wasapi = 48hz / 32 bit
> ...


I would use Audirvana or Roon for strictly streaming, and then enable exclusive audio access, that way taz can re-clock depending on the source.


----------



## The1Signature

i waned to buy roon lifetime. my friends paid 500 and once i saw that they increased to 700, i was confused.... and forgot until today to buy a lifetime license.


----------



## Vamp898

The1Signature said:


> windows 10 laptop > aq carbon (uscb-c) > taz
> 
> waspi exlusive, directsound, asio = 48hz / 16 bit
> wasapi = 48hz / 32 bit
> ...


You can change that somewhere in the Qobuz app

https://help.qobuz.com/hc/de/articles/360028514012-Wie-kann-ich-Musik-in-Hi-Res-auf-dem-PC-hören-


----------



## The1Signature (Nov 8, 2022)

The1Signature said:


> windows 10 laptop > aq carbon (uscb-c) > taz
> 
> waspi exlusive, directsound, asio = 48hz / 16 bit
> wasapi = 48hz / 32 bit
> ...


this picture is from the qobuz app actually.




Vamp898 said:


> You can change that somewhere in the Qobuz app
> 
> https://help.qobuz.com/hc/de/articles/360028514012-Wie-kann-ich-Musik-in-Hi-Res-auf-dem-PC-hören-


technically i am not listening on the computer, just a pass-through to the taz which i wanted.


----------



## Vamp898

The1Signature said:


> this picture is from the qobuz app actually.
> 
> 
> 
> technically i am not listening on the computer, just a pass-through to the taz which i wanted.


Ah yes, I meant that.

There is also somewhere an setting in which quality Qobuz is downloading the files. So Qobuz seems to not stream the Hi-Res version for whatever reason.

You can change that to somewhere in the settings.

But it does work, I did test that in the past with the TA-ZH1ES and the WM1Z and it worked with both


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## The1Signature (Nov 9, 2022)

Tsiklon said:


> By default it’s all resampled, but as far as I am aware UAPP does use a different method and will give bit perfect output on supported devices


so while i am not able to get bit perfect via windows laptop > taz, t works great with any android device, in my case samsung tab s8 ultra with uapp > taz.

uapp recognizes the taz and via bit perfect, i see the quality on qobuz for each song equals what is written on the taz screen.


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## kefs

Yes Windows is very strange how it (apparently) outputs different file size dependent on which output setting you select. I downloaded asios but cant configure it. Also there is a definite audible difference in the 3 settings on windows


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## Vamp898

The1Signature said:


> so while i am not able to get bit perfect via windows laptop > taz, i works great with any android device, in my case samsung tab s8 ultra wtih uapp > taz.
> 
> uapp recognizes the taz and via bit perfect, i see the quality on qobuz for each song equals what is written on the taz screen.


I just tried it with my Notebook and the Sony Music Center, it outputs bit perfect.

I can also output bit perfect from several apps from my phone (Sony Music Center, FiiO, UAPP and so on), but that never was an issue here anyway.

I don't have an streaming account for Qobuz but the Qobuz App also plays local files bit perfect. So i still assume, that it is related to the streaming and so to the quality of the file.


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## The1Signature

Vamp898 said:


> I just tried it with my Notebook and the Sony Music Center, it outputs bit perfect.


it do also have bitperfect with sony music center.

i was talking exclusively about the qobuz windows desktop app which doesn't wrok as i wish.


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## SoundJedi (Nov 12, 2022)

I just acquired this wonderful amp and I love the sound. Unfortunately I am having trouble connecting the USB DAC to my Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S20+).

I am using UAPP. It does seem to recognise the device but the sound still plays through the phone.

Any help would much appreciated!

I am also experiencing something strange with some iems/HPs when using my R2R DAC (connected to my phone via USB). When I push the volume all the way up on the phone, I get some persistent and quite disturbing static noise. I haven't experienced this with any other amp.


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## Hinomotocho

SoundJedi said:


> I just acquired this wonderful amp and I love the sound. Unfortunately I am having trouble connecting the USB DAC to my Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S20+).
> 
> I am using UAPP. It does seem to recognise the device but the sound still plays through the phone.
> 
> Any help would much appreciated.


Might it be a setting in Developer options? Perhaps the Disable USB audio routing setting?


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## SoundJedi

Hinomotocho said:


> Might it be a setting in Developer options? Perhaps the Disable USB audio routing setting?



That setting is turned off. I assume it should be kept off?


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## Hinomotocho

SoundJedi said:


> That setting is turned off. I assume it should be kept off?


The wording of those settings always confuses me, but I think off is the setting you want. I'm sure it has changed over the years from being on for automatic USB routing. The only other thing I can think of is having the TA-ZH1ES correct input setting. 
It was just a thought I had, someone else may be able to help you out.


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## SoundJedi

Hinomotocho said:


> The wording of those settings always confuses me, but I think off is the setting you want. I'm sure it has changed over the years from being on for automatic USB routing. The only other thing I can think of is having the TA-ZH1ES correct input setting.
> It was just a thought I had, someone else may be able to help you out.



Thank you, I'll try switching the setting on and see what happens.


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## gLer

Also try a different cable. I know it sounds silly but some devices are very precious about cables. And you may want to try a micro USB to USB C cable and connect your phone to the Walkman port on the side of the Taz.


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## The1Signature

SoundJedi said:


> I just acquired this wonderful amp and I love the sound. Unfortunately I am having trouble connecting the USB DAC to my Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S20+).
> 
> I am using UAPP. It does seem to recognise the device but the sound still plays through the phone.
> 
> ...


USB C cable? 

I have the S22 Ultra and just tried and. It works without any problems.


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## SoundJedi

The1Signature said:


> USB C cable?
> 
> I have the S22 Ultra and just tried and. It works without any problems.



Yes I am using a USB C cable. Tried two different cables with the exact same result.


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## gLer

SoundJedi said:


> Yes I am using a USB C cable. Tried two different cables with the exact same result.


Try the side port, trust me.


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## SoundJedi

gLer said:


> Try the side port, trust me.



Interesting, you mean the walkman port?


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## gLer

SoundJedi said:


> Interesting, you mean the walkman port?


Yes, but you'll need a micro USB adapter or USB-C to micro cable.


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## SoundJedi

gLer said:


> Yes, but you'll need a micro USB adapter or USB-C to micro cable.



Will try and report back. Thank you!


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## SoundJedi (Nov 13, 2022)

gLer said:


> Yes, but you'll need a micro USB adapter or USB-C to micro cable.



I updated the firmware and things are looking rosier. Thanks everyone for the help.


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## The1Signature

SoundJedi said:


> I updated the firmware and things are looking rosier. Thanks everyone for the help.


the last firmware update of the taz is relatively old and i didn't think about that you may have still the stock firmware 1.0.0 on it . indeed, they improved the usb connectivity with the firmware update.


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## SoundJedi

The1Signature said:


> the last firmware update of the taz is relatively old and i didn't think about that you may have still the stock firmware 1.0.0 on it . indeed, they improved the usb connectivity with the firmware update.



This thing sounds so good! One of the best synergies with my Diana (it can drive it but have to push the volume almost all the way up).


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## The1Signature

SoundJedi said:


> This thing sounds so good! One of the best synergies with my Diana (it can drive it but have to push the volume almost all the way up).


high or low gain?


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## SoundJedi

The1Signature said:


> high or low gain?



High 😅.


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## mang72

The1Signature said:


> the last firmware update of the taz is relatively old and i didn't think about that you may have still the stock firmware 1.0.0 on it . indeed, they improved the usb connectivity with the firmware update.


I have also had the same problem with the new walkman. Won't play via streaming apps when plugged in the rear USB but works on the micro port on the side. The walkman native app works fine on all. I will check my firmware version and see if its still on the 1.0.0 version.


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## Huckle

Hi guys! Just got a second-hand Ta ZH1ES today and it sounds gorgeous! I noticed my firmware was stuck on 1.0.0.. I tried to update it on my Mac through the Sony Headphone Amplifier Updater app. The app can connect to the amp but once I hit the "update" button the software tells me it cannot write the new OS on the amp ("écriture impossible" in French). Can anyone help me? Thanks!


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## Tsiklon

Huckle said:


> Hi guys! Just got a second-hand Ta ZH1ES today and it sounds gorgeous! I noticed my firmware was stuck on 1.0.0.. I tried to update it on my Mac through the Sony Headphone Amplifier Updater app. The app can connect to the amp but once I hit the "update" button the software tells me it cannot write the new OS on the amp ("écriture impossible" in French). Can anyone help me? Thanks!


There’s been so much change in the back end software with MacOS in recent editions since this last firmware came out (2017) - it may be the case that the firmware update program no longer works on newer versions of MacOS. Do you have access to a Windows machine to try this from?


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## Bdogg

Huckle said:


> Hi guys! Just got a second-hand Ta ZH1ES today and it sounds gorgeous! I noticed my firmware was stuck on 1.0.0.. I tried to update it on my Mac through the Sony Headphone Amplifier Updater app. The app can connect to the amp but once I hit the "update" button the software tells me it cannot write the new OS on the amp ("écriture impossible" in French). Can anyone help me? Thanks!


I also had this problem recently and thought I had bricked the Taz - borrowed my wife’s laptop using Windows and it worked first time perfectly.
Mac OS doesn’t really work well with Sony items from my experience. 
Try using a PC if at all possible.


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## Huckle

Thank you so much guys, I quickly installed Parallels desktop on my Mac and I apparently was able to update the TAZY. At least it's now recognized by Roon on the Apple system. Many thanks ! Do you know how can I check on the device if I'm on 1.0.3. ?


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## Bdogg

Huckle said:


> Thank you so much guys, I quickly installed Parallels desktop on my Mac and I apparently was able to update the TAZY. At least it's now recognized by Roon on the Apple system. Many thanks ! Do you know how can I check on the device if I'm on 1.0.3. ?


Pretty certain it’s viewable via some button sequence but can’t for the life of me remember how to view it. 
May be worth searching this thread.


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## Huckle

yeah ! I read it this afternoon but can't find it now...


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## Lookout57 (Nov 17, 2022)

USB Version will match the installer version.


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## Huckle

thanks! Main version 1.11! Cheers guys, have fun with your TA ZH1ES!


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## kefs

I think i like the Sony 'house' sound


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## Kiats

kefs said:


> I think i like the Sony 'house' sound


Nice! Perhaps a Sony DAP or even a DMP to round it off.


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## Hinomotocho

Kiats said:


> Nice! Perhaps a Sony DAP or even a DMP to round it off.





and a t-shirt.
My home is tiny so all boxes go straight into a pain-in-the-neck-to-access roofspace storage so I forget what they look like. 
I love the packaging, makes you proud to own some of them and is upselling me on the others.


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## roadcykler

kefs said:


> I think i like the Sony 'house' sound


You should try these sometime. They sound pretty good to my ears.


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## Sp12er3

The WF actually have a pretty compelling c
Sound for its usage case, same sony house sound and pretty comparable to my XBA A3, booming bass, I love it most for movie watching. 


kefs said:


> I think i like the Sony 'house' sound


I have the exact same problem. But I've trimmed down my collection a tad by letting go of my Z7 and MA900, 2/3 of Sony's 70mm I owned with the latter being their last Open Back headphone. I'm missing them but I just aren't using them often enough, other people hopefully can take better care of them better than I did.


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## xenithon

Bit of a long shot but was wondering if anyone has compared the Taz versus the DX300 Max (SS and / or Ti)?


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## kefs (Nov 26, 2022)

Hey what a nice choice of headphones you own xenithon


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## gLer




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## Mykola

kefs said:


> I think i like the Sony 'house' sound



🍻👍


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## tonimccloud

Any news about a new version of ta-zh1es? It's nearly impossible to buy a Tazzy in Europe. Regards


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## Kiats

tonimccloud said:


> Any news about a new version of ta-zh1es? It's nearly impossible to buy a Tazzy in Europe. Regards


None that I have heard.


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## turbo87

so i just got a macbook air m1 with Ventura OS and the Amazon and Apple Music streaming Apps are not recognizing the Amp as a high rez DAC/Amp. Even when I play high rez files from those Streaming Apps. Its defaulting to 44.1khz on the Amp. With my old 12 inch Macbook, both Apps reconized my Sony Amp. When I play the Audiravana App on the M1, it reconizes it. So is this the issue with the Streaming Apps or do I need to update firmware on the Sony Amp? I am on 1.09. Thanks


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## Kiats

turbo87 said:


> so i just got a macbook air m1 with Ventura OS and the Amazon and Apple Music streaming Apps are not recognizing the Amp as a high rez DAC/Amp. Even when I play high rez files from those Streaming Apps. Its defaulting to 44.1khz on the Amp. With my old 12 inch Macbook, both Apps reconized my Sony Amp. When I play the Audiravana App on the M1, it reconizes it. So is this the issue with the Streaming Apps or do I need to update firmware on the Sony Amp? I am on 1.09. Thanks


Like the previous took control and controlled the bitrate of the playback. the AM and Amazon apps do not for the Mac. Ditto for Roon which takes control.


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## turbo87

So is this related to latest Mac OS? Because my previous MacBook 12 inch from 2015 with Big Sur was working fine. Both AM and Amazon passed bit rates up to 192khz to my Mac.


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## equalspeace

Do these new R2R DACs beat the Tazzy as a standalone DAC? It's hard to believe they can. It amazes me how good Tazzy sounds in to my Cavalli amp.


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## xenithon (Dec 18, 2022)

.


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## LORDROOTMAN

Has anyone compared IFI XDSD GRYPHON vs ZH1ES by using IER-M9, IER-Z1R or any IEM ?


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## mildmannered (Jan 3, 2023)

SubL0ck said:


> I don't notive a delay playing 60FPS games or watching YT/Movies. It's the competitive shooters part that is problematic. CS: GO/Quake with FPS over 200/300 aren't playable. Guess i need another pair of headphones to play those using my EVGA soundcard. Shoot


I know a few folks were looking into this in 2021 and it seems like there’s no way around this lag but I wanted to double-check to see if anyone figured anything out? I’m debating a Taz but I’m also at 200-300fps when gaming and on a 244hz monitor so if this is an issue then I cannot get a Taz. I wonder if it’s still an issue when optical or coax in?

What other Dacs / Amps are recommended that are similar to the Taz? I’m assuming R2R would be similar


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## davidmthekidd

mildmannered said:


> I know a few folks were looking into this in 2021 and it seems like there’s no way around this lag but I wanted to double-check to see if anyone figured anything out? I’m debating a Taz but I’m also at 200-300fps when gaming and on a 244hz monitor so if this is an issue then I cannot get a Taz. I wonder if it’s still an issue when optical or coax in?
> 
> What other Dacs / Amps are recommended that are similar to the Taz? I’m assuming R2R would be similar


I game all the time using my taz, plugged to headphones or power speakers, no delays, via Optical.


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