# Tempting new Virtual Dynamics power cord-- $50!



## markl

(Note: a condensed and edited version of this 700-post+ thread can be found here: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...825#post218825).

 Haven't tried a fancy power cable (yet), and I remain skeptical. I have a power conditioner (Monster HTS5000), so I question the degree to which the cable is necessary.

 Nevertheless, I came across the Virtual Dynamics Power 3 cord on audiogon:

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.p...owr&1021153912

www.virtualdynamics.ca

 It looks very beefy and will ultimately retail for $200. The $50 deal is an introductory offer. Feedback on audiogon seems quite positive.

 Anyone here try these? Will someone take the plunge and report back? They seem to have a return policy. I'm so tempted...

 markl


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## zspradlin

If you want to try a really nice power cable, try Ensemble. If you go to www.higherfi.com , scroll down and click on cables. He has a 1.5M Ensemble Powerflux cable for $125 used, retails $300. In my system, I use the Ensemble Mega Powerflux, which is the big brother to the Powerflux, and to beat them you need to spend alot more money. I would recommend upgrading ALL power cables in your system.


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## MooGoesTheCow

markl, i have the virtual dynamics basic power cord which i also got on audiogon for the $30 special. it indeed is very beefy, however with 18awg copper, i have a feeling there's gobs of filler in there just to simply make it fatter. as for the sound, it's nothing spectacular, although there are many people who reportedly seem to like the line of cords. the bass is bloated, yet not detailed. forward low midrange, and laid-back everything else. highs are rolled-off and masked.

 i think your $50 can be better spent elsewhere. don't be seduced by a cord merely based on its size. 

 i really really like the Bolder Type 2 power cord. i haven't tried more expensive power cords, but these are something special. very fast sounding. airy, detailed, and makes everything else seem sluggish in comparison. it works extremely well in my system.

 the Bolder Type 1 is also a good cable, but not as good as the Type 2.


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## markl

Thanks Moo. I'm reluctant to spend more than $50 on something as esoteric (to me) as a power cord, so I was hopeful that this was "the one".

 markl


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## markl

Well, after some more research, I've indeed decided to take the plunge on the Virtual Dynamics cables. I have the 14-guage Power 3 coming for my Melos Maestro, and a new early version of a cryogenically-treated version of the Power 3 for $75 for my Sony SCD-333ES with Modwright mods. Apparently, this process improves the "flow of electrons" and is often found on $1000 plus power cords! We'll see....

 I'll post my findings in this thread.

 markl


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## markl

They arrived. Holy crap!!!!!!!!!!!

 These things are HUGE. I know I know "size doesn't matter", but they easily weigh 5 lbs each and are 1" thick. Garden hose thickness, literally!

 I assume even power cables have burn in-- how long til they're really hummin'?

 markl


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## dcg

Mark, 

 I'm eagerly awaiting your review. I need a new cable for my Cambridge D500se, and $50 is pretty much my limit. Trying to decide if I should just grab a quail cord for $10 or so.

 BTW - your link doesn't work. should be www.virtualdynamics.ca


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## markl

GRRRRRR... They took over an hour to "install". These things look impressive as hell but the damn things are so utterly inflexible, it was virtually impossible for me to get them where they had to go. As it is, they're jutting way out behind my rack in full view. If i had a spouse, she would have issued the command to "send them back", and one would be hard-pressed to argue.

 After I have completed my audition, I will write to the manufactuere to complain of their stiffness. Maybe it's essential to the design/performance, but It's just not practical. They've got to make it more flexible.

 They better sound good! I'll let you know.

 markl


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## dcg

Bah, I just had a moment of weakness and placed my order. Now I'm _really_ interested in your findings. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 For the record, I'm not presently a believer in better power cables making a difference, and if the stock cable on the D500SE wasn't such a POS I never would have upgraded. So, this should be interesting....


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## markl

dcg,
 When you see these things, you will agree that, to the MAXIMUM POSSIBLE EXTENT for a power cable to make a difference, these are indeed THE ONE. To say they are OVERBUILT FOR THEIR PURPOSE is the understatement of the Millenium.

 I'm still listening and will take my time making up my mind.

 markl


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## DarkAngel

>>>>>>
 GRRRRRR... They took over an hour to "install". These things look impressive as hell but the damn things are so utterly inflexible, it was virtually impossible for me to get them where they had to go. As it is, they're jutting way out behind my rack in full view. 
 <<<<<<

 This is all part of the learning curve. I purposely have not tried VD cords because I like the ones I have now, and I know I won't use stiff cords. I use bearing isolation and stiff cables are a no-no.
 This is something I quickly learned after trying several AC cords.

 Also stiff/heavy AC cords can put heavy strain on your IEC recepticle unless properly supported to relieve stress.


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## AC1

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*

 I assume even power cables have burn in-- how long til they're really hummin'?

 markl * 
 

Power cables take longer to settle in than IC's... It could take up to a month before they become completely stable, maybe 200 hours for it to sound good.


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## Vertigo-1

Quote:


 When you see these things, you will agree that, to the MAXIMUM POSSIBLE EXTENT for a power cable to make a difference, these are indeed THE ONE. To say they are OVERBUILT FOR THEIR PURPOSE is the understatement of the Millenium. 
 

Actually I think that honor has to go to the custom autographed thingy that Vka uses as his power cord.


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## MooGoesTheCow

The physical size of the Virtual Dynamics cable line is ridiculously overkill. It's just to make your jaw drop and feel you're getting your money's worth. I still believe that the size of the entire cable has nothing to do with the design, or else everyone would be making stuff the size of firemen hoses. It's a gimmick. I mean, c'mon...12awg cable, even wrapped with a gazillion shields, should not take up that kind of space. It's filler. Don't be fooled. I said the same thing when I got it. It's damn impressive, when you first get it. 

 All I can say is, hopefully you'll like the sound. I still conclude that my Basic Power cord is rolled off with a bloated bass. Pleasant for a few cd's, but not acceptable for the rest. Just my opinion.


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## markl

Well Moo..

 The Virtual Power 3 is a 14 AWG cable that is a step up from and different than the Basic, so maybe be cautious about damning the Power 3 just yet. As for the cable's girth, maybe it's overkill, maybe it's extra shielding. No, it's not especially practical. These will be $200 when VD gets up to speed and established. I think yes you will feel that you have gotten your $200 worth. At $50 it's absurd, a bargain.

 This is not my review, but let me say that nothing could have prepared me for what I am hearing straight out of the gate.

 This is by far my best tweak ever. I'm excited. More to come.

 markl


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## dcg

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*

 This is not my review, but let me say that nothing could have prepared me for what I am hearing straight out of the gate.

 This is by far my best tweak ever. I'm excited. More to come.

 markl * 
 

Hmm, now it gets interesting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 A few questions, Mark:

 How long did shipping take?
 Have you noticed any differences between the regular power 3 and the cryogenic?
 Do you really think they're gonna eventually sell these for $200?


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## markl

Shipping was two days, but I think these cables are build to order, so it was over a week total.

 I have no way of comparing the cryo vs. the regular cable due to the difficulty of swapping out this cable. VD recomended the better cable go on the source, not the amp.

 Yes, I do believe these will be $200 when they're out of the preliminary stages. VD does not appear to be just some guy in his basement. There's are at least 3 people involved, and they have apparently invested in a lot of equipment including the cryo unit. They seem very small but serious to me. very good service, answered all questions quickly.

 markl


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## dcg

Sounds good. I actually ordered a b stock cable, so it should be ready to go. Any idea how long the sale is running for?


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## markl

Best $50 I've ever spent in my entire audio career! A "markl Certified No-Brainer Headphone Geek Tweak"*. (*Some restrictions apply, read below, please)

 I was a skeptic, now a believer in power cords. I had never heard any other aftermarket power cable, so I had no idea what to expect. Based on the performance and obvious build quality of the VD Power 3, I am satisfied in my mind FWIW that I have pretty much licked the power cord "problem" in my system. 

 Could other aftermarket power cords sound better than the VD Power 3? Probably. Don't care.

 OK, before my initial reactions, some opening thoughts on power cords:

 1. Someone else said it best when they advised that power cords should be one of the last tweaks in a system you already love. The idea is to add that extra layer of icing on the cake, not to "transform" from a Bose into a Nautilus.

 2. It makes little sense to attach a fancy powercord to a low-cost, mass-produced component that has many cost/performance compromises. Although I'm no electrical engineer, it seem obvious to me that adding "clean power" to "dirty" "noisy" or "cheap" components will do little to erradicate the nasties in the system. 
 My components, a Melos Maestro and a heavily-modified Sony SCD-333ES each have very tricked-out, beefy, well-engineered and thoughtfully constructed power supplies. No, they're not cost no object designs, but they're plenty good, good enough to really allow a good power cable to shine. In fact, the Sony also has Bybee filters at the AC Mains to further reduce distortion in power supply. These components also have higher quality parts in the signal path, components that reject "nasties" and let a clean signal pass.
 OK, bottom line, think about your component. Even if it has a removable IC, how good are the parts in there? Good enough to let a POWER CABLE make them sing? If you have your doubts, money should be spent upgrading that component before you swap its power cable!

 3. I feel silly talking about the power cable's "sound". I think we should adopt a convention of referring only to the effect the cable had on your component, not the cable's inherent "sound". I refuse to believe that power cables have a "sound" of their own They ain't in the signal path. However, they can let your components really operate closer to peak performance. But a cable's performance and effect is going to vary from system to system, making it much harder to characterize a power cord's "sound". Anyway...

 4. Your Headphone Listening Style (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...istening+style), will also determine the degree to which you will notice the power cord's effects. Affects like these are best appreciated by people who close their eyes and focus solely on the music. That said, I still think that the astonishing level of change I've experienced in my system would be readily obvious to even a casual listen.

 5. Power conditioners are good. Monster makes some effective and low-cost solutions. I've recently scaled back from an HTS5000 to the new HTS1100 in anticipation of getting these cables. Again, VD reco'd sticking them straight into the wall. Well, the 1100 has fewer stages of filtartation than the HTS5000 yet it still has the surge protection. So, long story short, these results were obtained with the cables plugged into the conditioner, despite a reco that they go straight to the wall for maximum effect.

 OK, so here's some scattered notes about what I've heard so far in relative order of most noticeable to least noticeable areas of change:

 1. Weight and authority, especially in the bass. This is not "bloated" bass to me, put firm and powerful. Over the rest of the frequency spectrum, the sound itself benefits greatly from a increased sense of solidity and body. This results in an increased "presence" which aids in imaging too.

 2. All sounds and instruments exist clearly in their own space. This translates to better imaging and a bigger soundstage with increased depth.

 3. Music seems "faster" and more nimble. Melos was never a "fast" amp, but it's been given quite a boost.

 4. Detail, detail detail. I'm overwhelmed at the number of things I'm hearing for the first time on very familiar music. Lowered noise floor means more music gets through. This system is blessed now with incredible sensitivity and subtlety as well as brute force.

 OK, that's what I spy right away. I'll post more maybe later. In my history of "tweaks", I would rank the degree of change wrought by the Power 3 in my system thusly:

 1. Power 3
 2. Getting my Modwright mods for my SCD-333ES (that's a BIG difference)
 3. Upgrading to fancy interconnects
 4. Swapping tubes
 5. Adding a power conditioner
 6. Vibrapods (very little, if any noticeable effect)

 However, it should be noted that without that existing foundation of tweaks, the Power 3 would not have had as dramatic and noticeable impact, so it's sort of an arbitrary ranking in a way.

 markl


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## DarkAngel

>>>>>>>>>
 I am satisfied in my mind FWIW that I have pretty much licked the power cord "problem" in my system. Could other aftermarket power cords sound better than the VD Power 3? Probably. Don't care
 <<<<<<<<<





 Heh, heh, heh.......Of course they can, why stop now you know a $50 cord sounds better than stock cord, how would a great $300 cord sound? Once you discover how AC cords change sound, it is just a matter not going overboard and using a cord whose cost is porportional to equipment attached, just like ICs.

 If you have $1,500 - 2,000 piece of gear a $300 AC cord would be wise investment. For a $400 or less headphone amp you need the
 $50 cords.

 You can of course stretch you budget by buying used at Audiogon.


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## markl

Nice try, pal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dig this from the www.virtualdynamics.ca site re: the Power 3:

 "This next step in Virtual Dynamics power cable uses 14-guage conductor with a Schurter IEC and a Hubbell receptacle. It is designed to replace typical stock cord and to compete with the value of the most popular $1000 power cords from the traditional electronic design theories. "

 They have major cajones to compare their $200 cable with $1000 cables, if nothing else. Anyway, based I what I'm hearing, I'm inclined to believe them.

 markl


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## AC1

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*
 1. Power 3
 2. Getting my Modwright mods for my SCD-333ES (that's a BIG difference)
 3. Upgrading to fancy interconnects
 4. Swapping tubes
 5. Adding a power conditioner
 6. Vibrapods (very little, if any noticeable effect)

 However, it should be noted that without that existing foundation of tweaks, the Power 3 would not have had as dramatic and noticeable impact, so it's sort of an arbitrary ranking in a way.

 markl * 
 

Wow, the power cord in first place... thats gotta say something right there... power cords for me do rank high on that scale as well... And so true that the related equipment does play a part in how much difference you hear, which leads me to think how there are people with very good equipment that have not heard the potential of their gear, upgrading their gear yet ignoring the difference a PC can make.


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## markl

That list reflects my perceived value per dollar spent, as much as a measure of the degree of difference they made. At $50 this cable (if you can live with its absurd stiffness) is a home run. That's what I'm trying to convey.

 VD do indeed sell a $1000 power cable themselves. Maybe you could justify that to yourself. If so, you are much much further along in the disease than me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


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## Neruda

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*Nice try, pal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Dig this from the www.virtualdynamics.ca site re: the Power 3:

 "This next step in Virtual Dynamics power cable uses 14-guage conductor with a Schurter IEC and a Hubbell receptacle. It is designed to replace typical stock cord and to compete with the value of the most popular $1000 power cords from the traditional electronic design theories. "* 
 

oh yeah, and no other audio company says things like that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Do you always believe a company's product hype, mark?


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## pigmode

markl, 

 Isn't that the cable that you described as incredibly stiff? How much room do you need behind the component to allow the cable to make a 90 degree bend without stressing the IEC socket?


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## markl

Neruda,
 Of course not. That's why I said they have major cajones to make a statement like that. I would ordinarily ignore marketing speak. However, the build quality is so over-done, and my results were so much greater than I would have expected, that lends it some credence (in my mind).

 pigmode,
 Yes, these are the stiff ones. To get the cable to bend 90 degrees you'd need about a foot of clearance behind the component to the wall. You must also consider where the outlet plug is relative to the component. There is no way to make the cable double back on itself to snake back to plug into the wall. If I didn't have the power conditioner on the floor away from the outlet and components, I wouldn't be able to plug the Power 3's in.

 markl


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## Neruda

From the LAT Cables site:
  Quote:


 First, we are about low prices for cables that our customers tell us are the equal of, or better than the highest priced cables available. How do we back up that statement? WE GUARANTEE IT!! 
 

wow! better buy some of those cables.

 From the nOrh site:
  Quote:


 Le Amp have the speed and resolution only found in the most expensive solid state amplifiers. It has the same smooth sound that most people associate with SE Amps. It has the sort of headroom usually only found in large monster amplifiers and it is built as rugged as the most professional gear. It will provide the quality of high-end sound that audiophiles expect to pay thousands of dollars for. 
 

jeez, sounds like those amps sound like they can compete with just about anything out there! isn't that amazing? And they even named it "le amp!" that must take a lot of cajones! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not saying that either of those products are bad (I haven't even heard them), but I'm just trying to point out that practically every company says things like that. what do you think would happen if they said "our power cable competes solidly with other power cables at the $50 price point, sometimes maybe up to $75," while another company was saying "Our power cables compete solidly with cables costing more than $1,000!" These guys need to make money, and in order to do so they have to make statements like that in hopes that people will prefer them to the competition because of it. When everyone's making cables or amps or speakers that offer better sound at lower prices than the competition, who can you trust?


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## markl

Look, if I compare the level of difference I got from this $200 power cable to the difference I got from adding my $200 interconnects to the signal path, I'd say the Power 3 provides at least 3 times the degree of improvement. A much greater degree of change per dollar than good interconnects. I would therefore say the value of the tweak is much much more than the $200 price tag. I know you understand what I'm saying, Neruda.

 Speaking of ICs, VD also makes them. They're next on my list.

 markl


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## pigmode

Quote:


 jeez, sounds like those amps sound like they can compete with just about anything out there! isn't that amazing? And they even named it "le amp!" that must take a lot of cajones! 
 

Ha! I *dare* you to say that at the NoRH forum.


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## Neruda

Quote:


 I know you understand what I'm saying, Neruda. 
 

believe me, I'm trying. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Look, that's fine that you like your cord. but I think you need to be a bit more careful about quoting a company's comments about its own equipment. it's rather obvious they're biased, and there's a very good chance that they're going to say amazing things in order for people to buy their stuff. Isn't this the only power cord you've ever tried? Maybe you need to try some other cables before thinking that this is as good as they say it is.


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## markl

LOL, OK Neruda, it's irrelevant. Clerk, strike that statement from the court record. 

 markl


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## jerikl

going in another direction, but, are there any other power cords around $50 or less that offer a significant improvement?

 the only ones I have been able to find so far are $100 and up... most cost close to the cost of my components, and there's no way i'm going to pay for a $300 power cord when that's how much my amp costs.

 I'm really curious about how much a power cord will really change the sound.


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## dcg

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*At $50 this cable (if you can live with its absurd stiffness) is a home run.
 markl * 
 

I'm now pretty much convinced that here's no way this cable is going to work in my current setup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Luckily, I'm returning home in a few weeks, so I should be all set then.


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## markl

Well, I was so happy with my VD Power 3's that I ordered a demo version of one of their better IC's, the Reference. This retails for $499. It will go in between my 333ES and the Melos. This model has been cryo-ed by VD for me as well!

 I have high expectations given that VD's power cords (the "give-away" model) sounded so good and aren't even in the signal path. A near top of the line VD IC in the signal path should be quite illuminating! I'll either post a separate review or add comments here.







 Can't wait!

 markl


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## dcg

Mark, 

 Is the "sale" still going on at VD? If so, do you have any idea when they're actually going to implement the retail prices?


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## 2 channel

I just ordered a VD power 3 for my new MG head. Can't wait to get it! What do those interconnects go for?


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## markl

dcg, 
 you should talk to Rick about pricing. He spent a great deal of time with me on the phone, and is clearly very knowledgeable about the cable field. He's doing some things with his cables that are new and innovative. A friendly good guy.

 2 Channel,
 The Reference IC retails for $499, but check with Rick for special pricing. I was lucky to get a demo pair that had just been returned by a chap who was so blown away, he's upgraded to VD's newest top of the line stuff, the Night series.

 As a result, he had a few other demo power cables (his better models) that I really really wanted but just couldn't justify right now.

 Let us know how the Power 3 sounds with the MGHead!

 I'll get the Reference IC's on Saturday, and I can't wait!

 markl


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## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*

 I'll get the Reference IC's on Saturday, and I can't wait!

 markl * 
 

Ha! Another believer (in cables). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also ordered a Power 3. I picked up one of the recalled cables for a modest discount off the discounted price.


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## DarkAngel

Mark
 How about those VD speaker cables, would be nice to have complete matching set of cables.


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## eric343

Are you serious that the Power 3 made more difference than tube rolling?! What kind of tubes did you try?! SOVTEKS?!


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## dcg

Mark would certainly know better than me. It's been more than a week and no cable, and I had the upgraded shipping!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Patience is not one of my virtues.


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## markl

dcg
 Yeah, well FedEx actually sent my new VD ICs to Anchorage Alaska by "mistake". I'm not joking. It may be Tues. before I get them! I feel your pain.

 "Are you serious that the Power 3 made more difference than tube rolling?! What kind of tubes did you try?! SOVTEKS?!"

 I've tried a variety of the best tubes in their class in a variety of very good to excellent tube amps. The Power 3's made a more substantial improvement to the sound than any tube rolling I've done.

 markl


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## eric343

Whoa. I gotta get me one..


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## markl

eric,
 Please read my comments, caveats, and general thoughts on power cables. I don't think they're for everyone or every component. YMMV from mine in terms of results. Bottom line, the better your component to begin with, the more it can benefit from power cable.

 markl


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## dcg

FedEx just stopped by. Seems that while I ordered the cable on April 26 it didn't ship until June 2
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Impressions to follow. I did manage to get the cable hooked up, but it doesn't really work in my present setup. Guess I'll just have to keep the CDP unplugged until I want to use it.


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## dhwilkin

/winces at the title of dcg's last post


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## 2 channel

Hey DCG-
 How about first impressions???
 I'm still waiting for mine to be delivered!


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## markl

Yay! My VD Reference ICs with cryo treatment and something else called "ProTecX treatment" came today back from its vacation in Alaska! This will retail at $600 but i got a break on a demo pair.

 Like the power cables, these things are thick and heavy. Build is great with locking WBT's. I opened them up to check out the soldering inside. Wow! Very nice. You can see that the copper used in this cable is THICK! At least I was able to bend these (they maintain the shape you give them) and get them installed with a bit less fuss than the Power 3's. Outer covering on the cables is off-white/silvery soft mesh that's more attractive than it sounds.

 When I've had a chance to listen, I'll give my impressions here or in a separate thread.

 markl


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## dcg

Well, this is disappointing. I managed to free up an outlet in my apartment, and thanks to the moron who painted over all the outlets, I couldn't get the damn Power 3 cord in! Tried several outlets, no luck with any of them. I'm pissed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At any rate, the only option presently available to me is it plug the power 3 into the crappy power strip I'm using. I'm hesistant to make observations in this configuration, as there seems to be little point to having a good pc plugged into a crappy surge protector. In the limited listening I've done, I haven't really noticed any discernible differences, though obviously this could be the result of my less-than-perfect current configuration. It could also mean that the Cambridge isn't "high-end" enough to benefit from a better cable. I haven't tried the cable plugged into the ZOTL, but certainly will when I'm able to plug the pc directly into an outlet. I'll likely be stopping by Hirsch's place this weekend, and from what I hear Dusty may be coming as well, so I hope to get their impressions.


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## markl

dcg,
 What a bummer man. No, I'm not sure that plugging them in to the power strip is a way to make them "shine" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 I know you're in no mood to hear this right now, but this might be the ideal time to get yourself a Monster Power conditioner. I have the new 1100 and have my Power 3's plugged into that and that combo works great. 

 Anyway, I'm equally blown away with VD's Reference ICs as I was with the Power 3's. My system LOVES these cables. All of the items on the list of areas of improvement I noted about the Power 3's apply to the Refernce cryo as well. These things soundstage like it's a Cecil B. DeMille wide-screen epic. I've now started hearing sounds emmanating from *behind me*. Bass galore. The sound is somehow more forceful and substantial across the spectrum beyond just the bass. You really see into the recording with these cables. 


 markl


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## dcg

Mark, 

 I've actually got a Panamax Max 1000+ back at home. I graduate on the 18th and should be home a day or two after, so I'll likely have to wait until then to really see whether I'll hear a difference with my equipment.


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## pigmode

dcg, I just got my silver plated AC Outlet from Bolder Cable where it sells for about $30. It might be a quick fix to your problem.


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## dcg

pigmode - good idea, but like I said I'm on my way out of this apartment in a couple of weeks, so it's not really worth it. I'll just have to be patient, I suppose.


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## 2 channel

My new VD Power 3 cable arrived today. My oh my that thing is HUGE!!! I need to quit getting this stuff delivered to my office!Once again, a new toy that I will have to look at all day and wonder how good it will sound when I get home.

 BTW, holding off on my review until I get the cable installed and a Sylvania 5751 black plate.











 2


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## dcg

Quote:


 _Originally posted by 2 channel _
*
 BTW, holding off on my review until I get the cable installed and a Sylvania 5751 black plate.











 2 * 
 

Do one at a time! Otherwise, how will you know which one made the most difference?


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## markl

I agree with dcg. Give us your first impressions of the Power 3!

 markl


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## MooGoesTheCow

2 channel -- lemme guess...rolled off highs, lack of detail, and bloated bass.


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## 2 channel

I am doing one at a time, I have been taking notes thus far, will take new notes w/ same material for the p3, and still more notes w/ same material for 5751, then post it all as a comparative review. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Moogoesthecow:

 Quacksaystheduck says you couldn't be moore incorrect up to this point. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 2


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## pigmode

Just got mine. They also made a mistake and are sending me a second cable. (sigh)


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## dcg

What mistake did they make?


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## 2 channel

Here it is, the utimate line conitioner!

http://www.hpower.com/cgi-bin/produc...pid=1&id=4&m=s


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## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by dcg _
*What mistake did they make? * 
 

I order one, but they are sending two. This from a phone order. One's for sale I guess.


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## markl

C'mon guys stop teasing. We want impressions!

 markl


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## pigmode

I called them up this morning. They charged me for two, but sent only one.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


 C'mon guys stop teasing. We want impressions! 
 






 I won't be able to use mine for 6 weeks or so.


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## markl

AAAARRRRRGGGGHHH!!!

 C'mon, somebody say something....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well my Reference cryo ICs are mind-bendingly good. By far the best IC I've owned (yes, it's also the most expensive). The Reference affected the sound in areas very similar to the Power 3, leading me to believe these cables have a basic "house sound", which I think is related to the special cable technology he's developed. 

 Whatever, IMHO these cables are great.

 Now I have to save my pennies to completely re-wire my system. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


----------



## dhwilkin

Quote:


 markl said...

 C'mon, somebody say something.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

"something"


----------



## dcg

Quote:


 _Originally posted by dhwilkin _
*
 "something" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

smartass.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't worry Mark, I'm bringing my power 3 over to Hirsch's place Saturday, so you'll get both of our impressions soon enough.

 Dave


----------



## markl

Oh I see. You don't trust your own opinion. Fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


----------



## dcg

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*Oh I see. You don't trust your own opinion. Fine. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl * 
 

*******it, DO NOT THREATEN ME!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I told you, no use testing out of a ****ty power strip.

 Now that you've pissed me off, I'm considering charging you $5 for my review..........


----------



## dcg

Oh, and by the way, if _you_ trusted your _own_ opinion, you'd have no need for the reviews of others. So there. I'm sure you feel foolish.


----------



## markl

Sorry man, forgot about your power strip situation. I was just teasing!

 markl


----------



## Uncledan

WE WANT REVIEW, WE WANT REVIEW OF Power 3


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Uncledan _
*WE WANT REVIEW, WE WANT REVIEW OF Power 3





















* 
 

Well, it's big, long and black...


----------



## markl

Is that a Power 3 in your pocket or....


----------



## dcg

Quote:


 _Originally posted by MooGoesTheCow _
*rolled off highs, lack of detail, and bloated bass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

Actually yes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tested the cable at Hirsch's today on Dusty's Hap-02 amp, and out of the gate the biggest discernible difference was very bloated bass. I'm not familiar with the amp, but the difference was definitely noticeable, and Dusty agreed with me. Having no good way to connect it at my apartment, I left the cable with Hirsch for further testing. Unfortunately, we were not able to A/B the virtual dynamics cord with the Absolute Power cord that Hirsch uses on much of his equipment, but maybe sometime soon. Hopefully Hirsch and Dusty will chime in with their impressions.


----------



## Hirsch

The problem is that the Absolute Power Cord is well burned-in, while the Power 3 isn't. I should probably wait a couple of months before commenting...

 Nah. 

 The Power 3 is big. It weighs more than the ZOTL I wanted to use it on. Required some twists and turns to get it positioned...it doesn't like to bend. I then listened to some music using the APC I'm used to, then the Power 3, then APC again, then Power 3. Note that these cords are sufficiently different that I couldn't run a blind test
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Initial impression is bass bloat. That seems to diminish quickly, so burn-in seems to have started. However, the next thing that I noticed was cleaner imaging. Hmmm...could be a novelty effect, but a return to the APC definitely muddied the image. Further, the volume level that sounded good was higher on the APC than the Power 3. That's either a lower noise floor, better dynamics or both with the Power 3. I'm impressed. If this cord burns in well, and maintains or betters its current (sic) performance, it's a winner.


----------



## DarkAngel

>>>>>>>
 The Power 3 is big. It weighs more than the ZOTL I wanted to use it on. Required some twists and turns to get it positioned...it doesn't like to bend. 
 <<<<<<<

 Normally I would have demoed VD power cords in my system by now because of favaorable comments and low price etc. But the 
 size/stiffness issue should not be dismissed, especially if you have
 small components to connect like headphone amp, DAC etc. Believe me I have tried some stiff cords in the past, and when you have 4-5 cords used for rack system it can be a real pain in the a**.

 I may still try the more expensive VD Audition cord since it is composed of 3 smaller cords I think it bends easier than VD basic, power 3, power 2. Still it is a big heavy AC cord, wish they could make smaller more flexible design. I know it is the sound that counts, but some attention has to be paid to ease of use.

 For under $100 AC cords if you can live with stiffness/size issue the VD Basic, Power 3 sound like great deals, especially with 14 day trail period.


----------



## markl

dcg and Hirsh,
 Thanks for taking a chance on the Power 3 and for taking the time to compare and post thoughts. 

 It's intersting that Hirsh, who seems to be more impressed than dcg, was able to use the cord in his place on his gear in the environment he was used to. I wonder what Dusty thought?

 Can I ask what source you were using for the tests, whether the music you were using was well-known to all parties, how long you listened, and what was the cord plugged into (wall or conditioner)?

 DarkAngel,
 The Audition and above cords have receptacles that rotate 360 degrees to facilitate making a connection. Let us know what you get, and how it does! If you like what you hear, also check out their ICs, they're incredible.

 markl


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*dcg and Hirsh,
 It's intersting that Hirsh, who seems to be more impressed than dcg, was able to use the cord in his place on his gear in the environment he was used to. I wonder what Dusty thought?

 Can I ask what source you were using for the tests, whether the music you were using was well-known to all parties, how long you listened, and what was the cord plugged into (wall or conditioner)?* 
 

We really didn't get a chance to do any formal A/B testing while we were all here. Too much to listen to, too little time. dcg left the Power 3 with me, and I set it up with the ZOTL later, so the comparisons I posted were mine alone.

 I had both cords plugged into a Monster HTS-2000 power conditioner. Berning MicroZOTL with tubes that have actually stayed the same for a few days 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Amperex Bugle Boys (Holland) in front of Sylvania VT-231's). Source was Rotel 955 and modded ART DI/O. Elco DC-32 digital cable, Homegrown Audio Silver Lace analog cable, Calrad phone to RCA adapter for the DI/O. Listening done with HP-1 and CD3K. Music was very familiar, as it's the same as I had been using to listen to 12AT7's recently. 

 I'm hearing pretty much the same thing today that I did last night, and remain impressed with this cord. It adds authority to sound of the ZOTL, which greatly enhances the impact of this amp. My SHA-1 has a captive power cord, so I can't test the Power 3 with it (could be time for a modification here...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## DarkAngel

<<<<<<
 The Audition and above cords have receptacles that rotate 360 degrees to facilitate making a connection. Let us know what you get, and how it does! If you like what you hear, also check out their ICs, they're incredible. 
 >>>>>>>
 Mark
 Is that for male and female connections on AC cord, or just female end.......very useful feature for stiff cords, never seen that before.

 Someone told me that although VD AC cords are very stiff once they are bent they hold their shape like large piece of pipe cleaner, is this is correct? That would also be very useful trait.(although most stiff cables I've used always want to spring back to unbent position)


----------



## markl

Hirsh,
 As a former owner of a ZOTL, I can imagine having to put weights on the top of it to keep it in place with the Power 3! That cord may weigh more than the ZOTL!


 DarkAngel,
 As far as I know, the rotating connections are on both ends.

 The IC cables I have stay in place when you bend them, but the power cords seem to have a "memory" and want to go back *somewhat* to the original position.

 markl


----------



## dcg

Mark, 

 I should make it clear that my test of the Power 3 was pretty much in the worst of conditions - unfamiliar everything. Source, amp, source material, cables, tubes, basically no break-in, all of it. Add to that the fact that I listened very briefly, and you'll know why I'm slightly disappointed, but not too concerned, at least not yet. In fact, I've got three more of these cords in the mail, so eventually I'll be able to hook up both the cdp and zotl. I'll be interested to hear which is affected more. Until then, I'll reserve judgement. Just wanted to post my initial impressions, and also I'd like to note that even Dusty wasn't really familiar with the Hap-02, as we just found some tubes that worked with it at Hirsch's.


----------



## DarkAngel

Just talked to Ric at VD, and I worked out a deal to get some Signature ICs, more to come 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He did try to sell me some VD power cords, but I'll stick with my AP Power Ovals and PS Audio UO for now...........I hate stiff AC cords!


----------



## markl

Wow, DarkAngel, you don't mess around! Way to go on the Signature, those are a step up from my Reference. are they cyo-ed? Where in your system are you going to put 'em? Please let us know how they perform!

 Say, why stop at the Signature, why not go for the Nite Series, his new reference?

































 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Yes, Ric said there will soon be Nite review issued, wouldn't say where, and it will be rave about Nite cable........we will see.
 The Nites look incredibly bulky.......I had reservations about
 the Ref/Sig cables stiffness, hope I can work it out.

 The Sigs ICs look just like your Refs same size, I have the older ones with the white cable jacket vs new ones with black jacket.
 These are the style shown in pictures at website for Ref IC. Yes these are fully tricked out Sigs (cryo-ed etc) that were dealer demo he just happen to have on hand and cut me good deal.

 Well they will have to go between Bel Canto Dac 1.1 - MF A3cr Preamp, or MF A3cr Preamp - MF Amps........I will have to experiment, if they are too stiff I will have to use between preamp - amp. They are too sweet to use for Preamp- MOHR connection, heh,heh,heh.


----------



## markl

Yeah from that pic, they may be as fat as the Power3's! In talking (complaining 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) to Rick about Power 3 stiffness he went into detail why its necessary to the design, and does actually contribute to performance. 

 When will you get em?

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*Yeah from that pic, they may be as fat as the Power3's! In talking (complaining 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) to Rick about Power 3 stiffness he went into detail why its necessary to the design, and does actually contribute to performance. 

 When will you get em?

 markl * 
 

I won't be getting any VD power cords because of stiffness/size issue, although Power 3 seems to be a real winner and could possibily be the best sounding cord for under $100. I checked with other owners of VD power cords and theirs don't have the rotating plug feature.........maybe this was just very recent addition? 

 Didn't ask Ric today about this


----------



## markl

Sorry, wasn't brow-beating you about the Power 3's. I was just asking when you expect to receive the ICs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Already sent me Fed-x tracking number, but Sigs ship today (tuesday) and have 3 day shipping service so Friday at the latest.
 Although they are demos, I will probably burn them a couple days on system #2 after long trip before installing in main rig.

 This means my spare cable basket gets fuller, or some sales are needed at Audiogon.


----------



## dcg

Wheeee, FedEx dropped off 6 Power 3 cables to me today! 3 of them are Hirsch's, mind you. The box was heavy, I was lucky to get them inside without giving myself a hernia. Meanwhile, I still have no good outlets to plug them into, but I'm having a hell of a good time sitting here looking at them.


----------



## DarkAngel

OMG, did you get the standard power 3 ($50) or the Cryo version ($75) ? I think Hirsch needs some of those VD Audition Cords, very tempting to try, if only they weren't so big/stiff.....


----------



## dcg

Just the standard.


----------



## eric343

Damn, I want one of those cords... but I don't have the space! (I have maybe 6" of clearance behind my MG Head...)


----------



## DarkAngel

Look what just arrived....................

VD Signature


----------



## dcg

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Look what just arrived....................

VD Signature * 
 

Wow, those look like they might be pretty stiff too, particularly around the connectors.


----------



## DarkAngel

Dave
 I think Mark's description of "giant pipe cleaner" is good, since Sigs will hold any shape you bend with little spring back, bends need to be somewhat large but I think it will work for me. You can tell there is a lot of metal in these as they are very heavy for 1 meter pair........also no direction marking on cable and no instructions so I guess a call is in order to determine proper orientation when connecting in system.


----------



## markl

DarkAngel,
 i had the same question about directionality. Rick says his cables are non-directional, but he recommended that you place them in the direction of the lettering on the cable just to be safe and always replace them in the same direction as when you burned them in if you remove them. BTW: Those green dots indicate they were cryo-ed, not necessarily directionality.

 markl


----------



## markl

Wow, great pic. Really shows the quality of the cable. That satiny outer jacket is soft to the touch. I see yours say "cryo" right on there. Mine just has green dots.

 BTW: Did Rick happen to explain to you the diff between the Reference and the Sig?






 I give up, I can't make the pic copy into here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*DarkAngel,
 i had the same question about directionality. Rick says his cables are non-directional, but he recommended that you place them in the direction of the lettering on the cable just to be safe and always replace them in the same direction as when you burned them in if you remove them. BTW: Those green dots indicate they were cryo-ed, not necessarily directionality.
 markl * 
 

HG Silver Laces also originally had no direction markings, new ones now do. That answers my question and is what I suspected,
 I will carefully apply some small self stick dots with arrows when I install and break in cables so in the future when I move them I can re-connect with proper direction established by previous break in process.

 Really the Audition - Reference - Signature ICs are similar designs but each higher model has greater amounts of dynamic filtering capability, didn't get into too much detail here.


----------



## dcg

Just a quick update on my impressions of the power 3 - I dropped off a couple of cables at Hirsch's tonight and took a quick listen to the virtual dynamics on the ZOTL vs the Melos with stock cord (stock cord isn't removeable on the Melos.) 

 Differences were immediately apparent - to me, the Melos sounded grainier, the ZOTL much more airy. Contrary to my intial impressions, bass was far from bloated or sloppy. Whether this is due to burn in or due to the fact that the power 3 just sounds better with the ZOTL than the Hap-02 I don't know, though I tend to believe it's burn in, as Hirsch noted bloated bass with the ZOTL at first.


----------



## Hirsch

The captive power cord on the SHA-1 is a problem, it now appears. The Melos had almost caught up with the ZOTL sonically, IMO, but the Power 3 has the ZOTL pulling away again. Bass response was initially bloated, but has tightened up again. As the cord burns in, the sense that the image is clearer remains. There is still a sense of greater bass extension. A really impressive improvement!

 The next two Power 3's have gone to my Sony 9000ES and Outlaw 950, just tonight. Initial impression of very heavy handed bass, but still there's a greater sense of detail. The Sony has always had a lean midrange, IMO, and the Outlaw to date has had a very dry sound playing music, so much so that I've been playing around with keeping a separate preamp for music. I think I can put that to rest now, if the Power 3 burns in as well as it sounds now. Midrange is now fleshed out. Voices have body to them. However, the high end and bass extension remain better than the previous cord (Absolute Power Cord...much better than normal stock cable). So far, I'm putting these cables as early in the chain as I can. Will they help out with power amps? Hmmmm...


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Hirsch _
*The captive power cord on the SHA-1 is a problem, it now appears. The Melos had almost caught up with the ZOTL sonically, IMO, but the Power 3 has the ZOTL pulling away again. * 
 

Yes it is, I have mentioned before that whenever you send Sony players in for any mod first thing they do is toss the captive generic AC cord and install IEC recepticle to allow aftermarket cord.

 Have you figured out how to connect Power 3 to small headphone amp without pulling it off shelf? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well there is only one logical thing to do.......someone must order the VD Audition cord, any volunteers? Hirsch?

 <<<<<<<<
 Will they help out with power amps? Hmmmm... 
 >>>>>>>>
 Is the pope catholic? heh,heh,heh


----------



## markl

"Well there is only one logical thing to do.......someone must order the VD Audition cord, any volunteers?"

 Believe me, they're calling my name. I want I want I want I want.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Too late now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Took 1/2 hour on phone with Ric to negotiate deal on two demo
 VD Reference AC cords.........more to come.

 BTW he said none of the VD cords have "rotating" plugs, but Auditon, Reference, and Signature are easier to bend like ICs and hold thier shape.


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Well there is only one logical thing to do.......someone must order the VD Audition cord, any volunteers? Hirsch?
* 
 

I was innocently sitting at my desk minding my own business when I felt an enormous pain in my wallet. Looking at DarkAngel's post, it was at the exact time DarkAngel hit "submit reply" ...


----------



## markl

Couldn't resist. Had to grab some Signature Cryo power cords demo models while they still have some. I originally called asking for Auditions, but demand is too high and they had no demo models at the present moment.

 Now this cable should answer the question once and for all, "how much can a power cord improve the sound". Check it out:







 I recognize that these cords are probably meant for gear better than mine, but as I upgrade, I can take the Signature cords with me!

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Yes that is the spirit! At a certain point of course spending more on AC cords is not as effective as upgrading gear, each person must find the balance in their own system. Where will that cable go in your system Mark?

 When you say "some" cords do you mean more than one? If so all I can say is.................OMG!

 I think Hirsch also did some cables buying today, but like the Sphinx he is being mysterious and keeping us guessing as to what........heh,heh,heh


----------



## DarkAngel

BTW Mark that was a fast conversion from AC cord skeptic to owner of VD top of the line AC cord


----------



## markl

"BTW Mark that was a fast conversion from AC cord skeptic to owner of VD top of the line AC cord"

 he he. Didn't you hint I'd do this earlier in this saga? You were right! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "When you say "some" cords do you mean more than one? If so all I can say is.................OMG! "

 One for my Melos Maestro, and another one for my Sony SCD-333ES with Modwright mods and Bybee filters. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Rick sez they will "knock my socks off." Well, I'm still short a sock from the friggin' Power 3. When the Sigs arrive I may need 911!!!!!!!!!

 markl


----------



## eric343

Holy CRAP those cords are MASSIVE!!!

 Are you planning to tow cement trucks with them or something?!


----------



## markl

So far, these VD cables have been the best thing I've done in terms of tweaks for my system. I don't know what better endorsement of their products I can give besides to tell you that I am re-wiring my system top to bottom with VD cables. 

 They're BIG, but damn are they good. They have re-defined for me what an interconnect can do, let alone what a power cable can do. These cables have re-defined what I will consider "good sound" from here on out. I think Rick's literally captured "lightning in a bottle". 

 markl


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*
 I think Hirsch also did some cables buying today, but like the Sphinx he is being mysterious and keeping us guessing as to what........heh,heh,heh * 
 

I did buy today, but not cables (yet). I'm getting one of the GW Labs upsamplers to use in tandem with the DI/O. Should be an interesting experiment...


----------



## DarkAngel

Well after 3-4 days of break-in on system 2 using XLO/Reference
 break-in track VD Sigs are now installed in main system. This process reminds me of a DR Suess book with the strange plumbing pictures. The Sig was pre-bent to approximate shape by holding cable where it was to be installed. After bends are applied
 IC holds the shape and can be installed without stressing or damaging your RCA jacks. 

 The VD Sigs replace a 1m run of HG Silver Laces between preamp-amps, will report my findings after couple days of listening. Sometime this week my VD Ref AC cords should arrive, so more fun to be had.

 Although I got great deal on this demo IC, it is the most money I have ever spent on a single pair of ICs, so I hope I like it. I think if I ever did decide to sell, it would be gone in 1 hr at Audiogon
 so pretty much risk free proposition.


----------



## dcg

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*I think if I ever did decide to sell, it would be gone in 1 hr at Audiogon
 so pretty much risk free proposition. * 
 

Thinking like that is exactly how I convinced myself to buy 4 Power 3s
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank god the Outlaw PCAs came along or I'd be tempted to buy some ICs from VD.

 OT: BTW DarkAngel, I've replied to your PM.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That'll make a nice graduation present to myself!


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*
 Although I got great deal on this demo IC, it is the most money I have ever spent on a single pair of ICs, so I hope I like it. I think if I ever did decide to sell, it would be gone in 1 hr at Audiogon
 so pretty much risk free proposition. * 
 

Going copper DA? Is this for your speakers or headphones? What speakers do you have?


----------



## DarkAngel

Pig
 Don't quote me on this, but I believe Rick said the VD Sigs IC have 9 gauge solid copper (I think) conductor cryo treated with the VD mechanical vibration filter material. I am using PSB Silver-i speakers, look at my webpage you will see pictures of VD Sigs.


----------



## DarkAngel

I am still waiting for my VD Ref AC cords.......must get them before Mark so he will be jealous, heh,heh,heh

 Am getting close to reporting on VD Sig ICs, I will tell you they are excellent at reproducing 3D soundstage with extremely smooth liquid sound, looks like I keep them.......more to come.


----------



## DarkAngel

Well slight delay for VD Ref AC cords, seems last weekend was holiday in Canada, so today was 1st work day of week. Delivery now looks like Thursday-Friday of this week.

 My initial impressions of VD Signature IC are very good indeed. They remind me tonally of Cardas Golden Cross or perhaps AZ Matrix, in that "in my system" thay are very slightly warm, very liquid sound that is completely free of any hardness, very relaxed smooth sounding. Compared to HG Silver Laces or even the copper/silver hybrid HT ProSilway II they do not quite have the upper treble extension and therefore sound more relaxed, similar to almost any other copper cable I have heard vs silver cables. They lack the very high end treble sparkle a good silver design provides.

 That is the only weakness I can find, the remaining 85-90% of the range however surpasses the HG Silver Laces and ProSilway II. VD Sigs present a huge 3D soundstage, slightly bigger than my other ICs, and not only is it bigger it also seems more real or holographic. This is the strongest feature of the VD Sigs for me.
 Coupled with the liquid smoothness is extremely impressive retrevial of fine detail, amazing considering how completely natural and musical the ICs are, don't sound cold or analytical at all which can be the weakness of many silver designs.

 I think these ICs would literally be miracle workers in systems that lean slightly to the bright/cold side, and in a tonally nuetral system they are very impressive. If you have a slightly warm system these might be a bit too warm/dark sounding. When I install the VD AC cords my initial impressions may change a bit.
 Perhaps Mark can add his impressions of the VD Reference ICs.

 BTW, I continue to be amazed/impressed at how good the HG Silver Laces sound for $190 retail, better cables are available but I know of no other IC that offers the price/performance ratio of Silver Laces.


----------



## markl

Quote:


 I am still waiting for my VD Ref AC cords.......must get them before Mark so he will be jealous, heh,heh,heh 
 

My Sig Cryos shipped on Friday via Canadian "Express Mail". I may get mine before you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 "in my system" thay are very slightly warm, very liquid sound that is completely free of any hardness, very relaxed smooth sounding. Compared to HG Silver Laces or even the copper/silver hybrid HT ProSilway II they do not quite have the upper treble extension and therefore sound more relaxed, similar to almost any other copper cable I have heard vs silver cables. They lack the very high end treble sparkle a good silver design provides. 
 

DarkAngel, as I recall you are not listening "directly" to these cables, but there's another set in the signal path, and possibly another component as well, is that correct? That makes judging them a bit more difficult I would guess, or at least it adds some variables to the equation

 Mine are installed directly from my SCD-333ES with Modwright mods to my Melos Maestro. However, I have a Sonic Horizons Daybreak extension cable in my signal path that will soon (if it ever shows up) be replaced by a Sonic Horizons Hurricane headphone extension. The Daybreak is a great extension for $60, but the Hurricane is more than double the price and presumably significantly better. Getting that cable should let me "hear" the VD Reference Cryo ICs better. 

 Right now I think the Daybreak is the weak link in the chain, yet despite this I still got a whopping improvement over my two previous ICs, the AudioMagic Spellcaster ($400 retail) and Stealth Cable FLR (retail $240), both of them were silver and were excellent cables compared to the other better cables I had before (MIT T2 and Monster Z-Series). 

 I've not experienced a loss in the highs at all with the VD Reference ICs compared to those two silver cables. In fact, Rick warned me that some people might find his ICs "bright" as they were not used to full and accurate extension up top that his cables make possible. I've heard the extension in the bass region combined with the more emphatic midrange I noted earlier. I don't doubt that the highs are equally more "present" as well, yet they aren't harsh or etched. I wouldn't describe them as dark up top anyway.

 I also believe that upgrading to the Sig Cryo power cords will further enhance the positive effects of the Reference ICs, but how much remains to be seen.

  Quote:


 That is the only weakness I can find, the remaining 85-90% of the range however surpasses the HG Silver Laces and ProSilway II. VD Sigs present a huge 3D soundstage, slightly bigger than my other ICs, and not only is it bigger it also seems more real or holographic. This is the strongest feature of the VD Sigs for me. 
 

Yes! The VD cables are soundstaging champs and that's a MAJOR hot-button for me. I listen with my eyes closed and visualize the performance in my mind's eye. The VD really enhance this experience.

  Quote:


 Coupled with the liquid smoothness is extremely impressive retrevial of fine detail, amazing considering how completely natural and musical the ICs are, don't sound cold or analytical at all which can be the weakness of many silver designs. 
 

To me, it's not that the VD cables "remove" the edge, they are giving you the truth. To me, the etch, hash, and sharpness of some cables is a coloration, not the VD's "naturalness". These cables are tonally "right" to my ears. They aren't always reminding you that you're listening to a recording-- it sounds more like a real event which helps you again with imaging.

 I would never have thought that a cable could make as much difference as the VD's have in my system. They've completely changed my mind about the relative importance of cables.

 I was recently chatting with Hart from Audio Advancements and he had a set of $700 interconnects that he was trying to sell me. I told him I didn't really put much credence in cables as I had yet to hear a level of difference that really made me go "WOW"! He said to me: "Mark, you must treat interconnects as you would the actual *components* in your system. "Yeah, right" I thought, "thanks but no thanks, you can keep your $700 ICs!"

 Now, I BELIEVE.

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Mark
 Thanks for your impressions, I think you are a bit more impressed with VDs than I am. I am doing all listening though main speakers and yes there are other ICs and speaker cables in my chain, that is why I tend to have a lot of cable sets around, always trying new things.

 Haven't tried any AudioMagic or Stealth cables in my system. We both totally agree on great 3D capabilities of VDs, however after I wrote my previous post I again switched VDs back to HG Silver Laces and noticed beter treble extension with the Silver Laces
 as noted prevously.


----------



## daycart1

OK, head-fiers. I surrender. I phoned Rick and got VD. My dose consists in one Power 3 (b-stock) and one Basic Cryo power cord. Rick said that the Power 3 has better connectors, but that the cryo is really cool (pun), so that it is hard to say which will actually sound better.
 So even though I planned to try only one, I had to get both and commit myself to marathon a/b sessions.

 Thanks Head-Fi, I guess.


----------



## darkclouds

daycart1,
 I've been itching to try one of those cables but still have alot of doubts about their benefits. And if there are any benefits to be had, I would probably not be able to discern.
 In anycase, let me know if you can hear any difference.


----------



## DarkAngel

Still...................waiting for my two VD Ref cords, shipping has not been too efficient for my 2nd order, another call may be necessary as shipping date seems to be constantly changing.

 Daycart.........very clever the Rene Des Cartes avatar.


----------



## daycart1

Darkclouds: are you still in OC? PM me if so, and we can see if we can have coffee or something at UCI.
 My surmise is that powercords make a big difference when there are RFI/EMI problems and not otherwise (since the power comes from a lousy power company line in the first place etc.). But it is hard to know whether you have subtle interference problems until you try stuff with good shielding.

 Darkangel: Your avatar is pretty interesting as well.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Is that "Vampirella"? My kid brother was her assistant (head of fan club or some such) for a while--no kidding! His regular job is being personal assistant to Alice Cooper (no kidding!), but while Alice was in detox at one point, he had to work for Vampirella instead (what's her real name--Cassandra Peters, or some such?)



 Rick seemed like a great guy to deal with; I hope the shipping isn't a problem. How did you decide on the reference cords? I was going to get the cheapest, then asked about demos/returns, then got confused about what was best for me at the price.

 I seem to be conversing with the darkside of head-fi!


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## DarkAngel

*OMG* 
 The heavy artillery has arrived, VD Reference Cryo AC cords:

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/darkangel...iew=t&.hires=t 

 Fortunately as can be seen by picture the VD Audition, Reference, and Signature cords will retain shape they are bent to which makes them easier to use vs lower end VD cords.

 Wow, that smurf blue color matches my cardas smurf cable for Senn 600.............heh,heh,heh


----------



## markl

My Sig Cryos came. They are a foot shorter than the Power 3s, though interestingly, they feel much lighter than the Power 3's than you'd expect even for being a foot shorter. These bent and held their shape, making installation much easier but still not fun. My LEAST favorite thing in the whole wide world of audio is having to fuss with the unreachable tangle of cords behind my gear.

 Anyway, these don't look exactly like DarkAngels's Reference (they're a step up in the line), they're all black and the connectors look slightly different.

 Anyway, after some minimal burn-in I'll post impressions.

 markl


----------



## eric343

What I want to know is, what's the bend radius of one of those cords?


----------



## markl

Eric,
 Where I said the Power 3 could require as much as 12 inches behind the component, the Sig Cryo (and presumably the Audition and Reference) only needs about 6 inches.

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

I agree with 6" bend clearance for 3 cable VD cords.

 Mark even though its only been 1/2 day it is clear the VD Ref AC cords are having much greater positive impact on my sound than the VD Sig ICs did. Mostly thats because the Sigs were replacing an already excellent HG Silver Lace IC while The Ref AC cords were replacing $50 Absolutes.........don't have to listen hard to hear big improvement, more comments to come.

 Also now that you have some expensive AC cords I highly recommend replacing your $1 AC wall recepticle you plug your audio gear into with good aftermarket one for @$50, VD even sells these but I use PS Audio Power Port:

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/darkangel...iew=t&.hires=t


----------



## markl

DarkAngel,
 I'm no electrician 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . How hard is it to replace the receptacle? Is there soldering involved? What sort of tools are required? 

 OK, Can't resist, I have three observations about the Sig Cryos straight off the bat:

 1. If you thought the Power 3 had "too much" bass-- stay away from the Sig Cryo! I have never heard bass like this through my R10s before. Fan-friggin'-tastic!

 2. Someone else observed earlier (Hirsh?) that the Power 3 seemed to cause an apparent increase in volume over the stock cord at same volume setting. I'm not sure I heard that with the Power 3's in my system, but with the Sig Cryo, it's unmistakeable. That's very very interesting to me.

 3. Hmmm... I have to admit that the Power 3 might be "darker" sounding than the Sig Cryo. There's a lot on top and bottom with the new cables. Yet mids are emphasized too as singing voices seem "louder" and more "present" than before, and come through even more clearly with more force than before. Thin-sounding, these cables are NOT!

 More to come...

 markl


----------



## Hirsch

Replacing a receptacle is easy, and requires only a screwdriver (although having a wire cutter and electrical tape nearby doesn't hurt). 

 However step one is critical: Go to your circuit box, and shut off the current to the outlet to be replaced. If you have any trouble with step one, STOP NOW! and let an electrician do it.

 Once there is no current at the outlet, simply unscrew the cover plate and the outlet, and make note of which wires go where. Unscrew and release the wiring, and then put the whole thing back together. You'll have a positive lead, a negative lead, and a ground for a total of three connections to make. Some outlets use the outlet box itself as a ground (improperly, IMO). In that case, you may have to create a ground connect from the outlet to the wall mount, if your replacement outlet isn't self-grounding.

 After making sure that all electrical contacts are screwed into place securely, I wrap electrical tape around the outlet to cover the connections, and then screw everything back into place. The whole process takes about ten minutes, if that. I use a volt meter to make sure I've got the correct current at the outlet before I plug anything back into it.

 My main system is on a dedicated 20 amp circuit of its own.


----------



## daycart1

Time for the next installment.


  Quote:


 _Originally posted by Hirsch _
*My main system is on a dedicated 20 amp circuit of its own. * 
 

 What's involved in THIS step? Major electrician bill? Dedicated "how far out"? Next to the power company's meter?

 Thanks, as always


----------



## DarkAngel

Here are some great instructions with pictures from PS Audio site on how to change wall recepticle........I have no electrical training but I figured even I could handle this job.

http://www.psaudio.com/articles/powe...stallation.asp 

 As Hirsch said you must make absolutley sure power is off before doing any work on outlet, otherwise get professional help. Besides the superior contact surface area the Power Port (really a modified hubbell model 8300) grips your plug much tighter which can be helpful when using big heavy AC cords like the VDs.


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*

 Also now that you have some expensive AC cords I highly recommend replacing your $1 AC wall recepticle you plug your audio gear into with good aftermarket one for @$50, VD even sells these but I use PS Audio Power Port:

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/darkangel...iew=t&.hires=t * 
 

DA, have you compared your recepticle to the ACME silver (non-cryo) recepticle?


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*

 DA, have you compared your recepticle to the ACME silver (non-cryo) recepticle? * 
 

I have read other peoples comments on these but have not tried them myself, only the PS Audio units. There are many aftermarket
 AC recepticles available now from several sources, pretty cost effective upgrade IMO.


----------



## jude

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*DA, have you compared your recepticle to the ACME silver (non-cryo) recepticle? * 
 

I had considered the ACME outlets before, but that their silver creates a maintenance concern for me. I would imagine that it would tarnish after not too terribly long, and so might require regular cleaning -- and that would likely be an involved affair.


----------



## pigmode

Jude,

 I think that is one of the stated advantages of silver over copper--in a nutshell, silver oxidation retains conductive properties whereas copper oxidation does not. I haven't as yet come across any info indicating that that issue (oxidation) would be a problem.

 I already have the ACME outlet, but am about a month or two away from investigating power tweaks. I will avoid, in principle, power conditioners but I am looking for a quality power strip.


----------



## jude

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*Jude,

 I think that is one of the stated advantages of silver over copper--in a nutshell, silver oxidation retains conductive properties whereas copper oxidation does not. I haven't as yet come across any info indicating that that issue (oxidation) would be a problem.

 I already have the ACME outlet, but am about a month or two away from investigating power tweaks. I will avoid, in principle, power conditioners but I am looking for a quality power strip. * 
 

I believe tarnish on silver is silver sulfide, not silver oxide. I'm not sure exactly how conductive silver sulfide is, but I did find this:

  Quote:


 Sulfur-containing atmospheres will produce silver sulfide that increases contact resistance. Silver sulfide, however, is quite soft and easily displaced with adequate contact pressure and wipe or slide. 
 

So maybe just unplugging a plug and ProGold'ing it, and then plugging and unplugging it periodically would be enough as far as maintenance goes with the ACME. I'm not sure. And I'm probably being too cautious anyway.


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by jude _
*

 I believe tarnish on silver is silver sulfide, not silver oxide. I'm not sure exactly how conductive silver sulfide is, but I did find this:



 So maybe just unplugging a plug and ProGold'ing it, and then plugging and unplugging it periodically would be enough as far as maintenance goes with the ACME. I'm not sure. And I'm probably being too cautious anyway. * 
 

Thanks, I had no idea tarnish and oxidation were two different things.


----------



## markl

Hello Jude,
 Would you consider including some VD cables in your up-coming shoot-out? FWIW, I think these cables are well worth your time and effort. I know you've got a pretty full plate of new goodies... Cheers, and thanks as always for Head-Fi!!!!! All my best to you sir....

 markl


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by daycart1 _
*Time for the next installment.

 What's involved in THIS step? Major electrician bill? Dedicated "how far out"? Next to the power company's meter?
* 
 

The dedicated line runs from the circuit breaker box in my condo to a single wall outlet that my sytem plugs into. This must be done by an electrician. The cost would depend on the distance the circuit had to run. I knew the electrician, who did it as a favor to me, so I can't really say what the exact pricing would have been.


----------



## markl

OK, so my VD Sig Cryo power cables now have roughly 50 hrs burn-in and I've logged considerable listening time on them. Here are my conclusions:

 I had been *hoping* that the level of improvement wrought by the Sig Cryos over the Power 3's would equal the jump from stock cable to Power 3's which was a dramatic night-and-day sort of difference. That may not have been a fair expectation, and I acknowledge there are numerous factors that will dictate the performance of a given cable in a given system. 

 I fully recognize that these $1K+ list price cables are more than total overkill for my modified Sony SCD-333ES source and Melos Maestro amp. The SCD-333ES with Modwright mods represents an investment of $1200 plus about $600 for the mods (although I think my modified player competes with much more expensive CDPs) while the Melos Maestro retailed for around $2500 all tweaked out plus some very expensive Siemens NOS tubes. I would imagine that the Sig Cryos are meant for components in the $5K range and above. 

 Overall, I would say that the boost in performance provided by the Sig Cryo cables over the Power 3 *in my unworthy system* was about 50% of the major leap in performance I got from going from the stock cables to the Power 3's. That said, given the sweet deal I got on the demo Sig Cryos I'm still delighted by their performance vs. cost. This was a great tweak over the mighty Power 3's and well worth my money. Plus, as I upgrade, I can take these killer power cords with me!

 Anyway, there are several potential conclusions I *could* draw from my experience:

 1. The VD power cords price/performance curve peaks at about the Audition/Power 1 level. This would be jumping to conclusions, IMO, but can't be ruled out. 

 2. Given the general level of components we use on this site, the Audtion/Power 1 cords are about the apex of what Head-Fi'ers should invest in. Let's face it, most of us do not have have $5K and above components. A $1K power cord does not make much sense for us.

 3. My VD power cords are plugged into my Monster HTS1100 power conditioner. Good as this little $200 power conditioner is, could it be limiting the performance of the Sig Cryos in my system? Again, Rick at VD reco'ed I insert his cables straight into the wall. However, I want surge protection, so I decided to put them in the Monster despite his advice.

 Let me just re-state for the record, I'm floored by the performance of the Sig Cryos in my system. I've reco-ed the VD cables to everyone I know who is seriously into audio. I highly recomend these cables to you. However, please see my original caveats about power cords that I posted earlier in this thread to determine if a power cord upgrade is really rational at all for your system, or whether that cash is better socked away to pay for a better source or amp.

 Rock on!

 markl


----------



## cyclingasronomer

i hope this is the right place to put this in. i just tried a zcable power cord on my audible illusions m3 preamp, and was amazed to find that the difference was comparable to replacing my ics with analysis plus. so i got two more for my quicksilver monoblocks and it made even more difference! the presentation became more forward a bit, much more detailed, strong and solid-sounding, more dynamic,with better hf response,better imaging, less distortion on loud passages. cords, evidentally made a huge difference in MY system. they cost me $130, incidentally.


----------



## Dusty Chalk

Quote:


 _Originally posted by dcg _
 Tested the cable at Hirsch's today on Dusty's Hap-02 amp...Hopefully Hirsch and Dusty will chime in with their impressions. 
 

Sorry, haven't been around.

 And sorry, I don't really feel that my comments would be meaningful. I pretty much agree with everything that's been said, including the preface -- unfamiliar equipment, unfamiliar tubes, unfamiliar source. Bass did seem more bloated than otherwise. Does not mean it's a bad cable. This probably could be tempered with something else (interconnects, other tubes, burn-in?). Does not mean it's a bad amp. Initial impressions of the HAP-02 are _very_ favourable. It just means that it's not used to getting that much juice -- my guess.

 Also wanted to mention an alternative. Krell sell some above-grade replacement power cords for US$18+ -- they're not as juicy as the Virtual Dynamics, but for those who want to take a step up with minimum of expense, this is one alternative that I was considering.

 I was looking at replacing a cord on a Krell KAV300i. Don't know if they will sell them to non-Krell-owners.


----------



## DarkAngel

Mark
 Haven't forgot about me have you, its taking me longer to evaluate the VD Refs because my system requires 5 AC cords and need to switch around to find best combo. The size/stiffness is a royal pain in the a** as I feared, so the Vds are going to have to really sound great to overcome the extra hassle.

 I will say like the VD Sig IC I am getting really great expansion of 3D sound stage which is very important for main system. As you noted and is true in general as your system improves it costs a great deal of money for ever smaller increases in sound quality,
 so some common sense is needed to balance your spending
 priorities to acheive best sound.

 More to come over next several days, any more observations?

 Cycling
 I have been eyeing the Zu Cable AC cords also because of reasonable price, small flexible design, and 60 trail period. Any other info you can provide, what cables did you previously use?


----------



## markl

bkelly said:

 "Mark,
 I just saw your last comments and I wanted to ask if you have yet tried the VD power cables without the Monster Cable Powerbar or if haven't yet whether or not you plan to. It would be interesting to know the results.

 As far as the Zcable stuff goes it's very interesting. They recommend the best power cable to be used on the source rather than the pre-amp or power amp. I'm like you I like the lighter weight and the cost. I wish someone would try them quickly. If you want to share the cost let me know.

 As you know the Headroom Tour is here in Nashville tomorrow. I can't wait."

 No, I haven't tried them without the power conditioner, and given the difficulty of attaching and re-attaching these cables it would be too much work to do A/B type tests to see if it makes a difference. In the end, I'm paranoid anyway and want the surge protection so they go in the Monster.

 DarkAngel,
 Which components of yours have you tried the VD Ref on, and did the level of improvement vary on the different components?

 Mark


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*bkelly said:

 "Mark,
 I just saw your last comments and I wanted to ask if you have yet tried the VD power cables without the Monster Cable Powerbar or if haven't yet whether or not you plan to. It would be interesting to know the results.

 As far as the Zcable stuff goes it's very interesting. They recommend the best power cable to be used on the source rather than the pre-amp or power amp. I'm like you I like the lighter weight and the cost. I wish someone would try them quickly. If you want to share the cost let me know.

 As you know the Headroom Tour is here in Nashville tomorrow. I can't wait."

 No, I haven't tried them without the power conditioner, and given the difficulty of attaching and re-attaching these cables it would be too much work to do A/B type tests to see if it makes a difference. In the end, I'm paranoid anyway and want the surge protection so they go in the Monster.

 DarkAngel,
 Which components of yours have you tried the VD Ref on, and did the level of improvement vary on the different components?

 Mark * 
 

Oppppppppppppssssssss........
 Little confusion I'm afraid between Z cable and Zu Cable, Cycling was referring to Z cable and I was talking about Zu Cable which does have a 5ft Birth AC cord for $130.......sorry for the confusion but nonetheless I have heard some good things about Zu cables especially for the price, remember Dan Wright purchased this cord from his recent AC cord shoot-out at AA.

 Mark
 I would really like to connect VDs to my little Bel Canto Dac but it is just phsically not possible because of the size/stiffness issue. I am also have trouble connecting to my CDP which rests on rack top shelf and 5ft VD cord is very hard to bend and still reach power conditioner on floor


----------



## DarkAngel

Mark
 Look what a mess those VD cables have made behind my rack:

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/darkangel...iew=t&.hires=t


----------



## markl

Links not working for me. How are they doing in your system? You gonna keep em?

 As for me, I think I can say that the Sig Cryos are experiencing much longer burn-in period than I noted with Power 3's. Not sure why that would be, but they are continnuing to improve quite staedily. I'm more enthused about them than I was after 50 hrs in my previous post.

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Dam Yahoo!

 Well I just realized that Yahoo has just changed their free online photo service and you can no longer publically share any high rez photos, without joining premium service......for $25 a year. And you have to set-up Yahoo wallet with all your information so they can automatically bill you, and you have to agree thay are not responsible if your Visa number is stolen.

 Yes the VDs are working well, with some effort as the photo would indicate I have them connected to CDP and preamp currently.....more comments soon


----------



## DarkAngel

I have to say I'm very impressed with the VD reference AC cords,
 they are easily the best cords I have ever had in my system. I almost can't believe the improvement in 3D soundstage and retreaval of fine detail they provide, while at the same time sounding very natural. I was an AC cord advocate before but I think even I underestimated how dramtically they can improve the sound, while at the same time confounding the skeptics that say it can't be so.

 I now believe AC cord upgrades produce more improvement than
 IC or speaker cable upgrades. I wasn't anywhere near as impressed with the VD Signature ICs, the improvement was much smaller than the obvious changes brought on by the Reference AC cords, especially when I placed one on my CDP......WOW!
 I can't remember any other $300 range AC cord I've tried that is even in the same league as the VD reference. Needless to say these are staying in my system, I haven't decided yet if I keep the VD Sigs IC, more listening is needed.

 I can live with the messy cable situation I guess, these AC cords have very low WAF (wife acceptance factor) but I'm not married so I will live dangerously.


----------



## eric343

FYI, if you want me to host some photos, send me an email. I can't gurantee 100% uptime, but I don't charge any money.

 eric343 at 2alpha dot com
 (send photos under 250K as attachment, I'll put them in http://hal9000.drsue.net/images/hosted/[photoname] when I get your email and/or get around to it)


----------



## markl

"I now believe AC cord upgrades produce more improvement than
 IC or speaker cable upgrades."

 Damn! Yes!!!!!! I was very very reluctant to be the one to say this because I thought no one would believe me! Prior to my experience with the VD power cables I wouldn't have believed it either.

 Who'd a thunk that a power cord can alter the sound more than an IC? I concur 100% DarkAngel! 

 Let the chips fall where they may, don't knock it until you've tried it!

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

OMG, please don't let me call Ric next week at VD, someone stop me please. Unfortunately my system requires 5 AC cords in current configuration so I have room for more VDs. 

 It will really be a challange to connect a VD AC cord to my small Bel Canto Dac 1.1, but thats really next on the list for cable upgrade. Mark why not sell me one of those Sig AC cords you're not using? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have more to say about these VD cables in the near future.


----------



## Hirsch

Dammit, my Power 3's are just getting broken in, and it's looking like I'm going to have to upgrade already. Somebody post a downside, so I can at least hold off a couple months...


----------



## DarkAngel

Hirsch
 You already know the downside.......the size & stiffness issue.
 Fortunately the Audition, Reference, and Signatures are actually easier to manage than the lower end AC cords because they retain the shape they are bent to. You just need to pre-bend it to shape for final installation, not too bad unless you have 3-4 cords to deal with then things get crowded.

 You can check my website below for pictures of VD cables installed in my rack system. I know your wallet took a dent recently with the Sony headphones, but you really must join Mark & myself in being amazed at the AC cords.


----------



## markl

The VD power cords were a real "come to Jesus" experience for me. I had always considered power cords to be the absolute height of audio-foolishness. What about the 50 miles of craptacular power cable from the power company leading up to my poorly wired outlet in my noisy apartment with all those other devices "grunging up" my power? How is it possible that the last 5 feet of cable can make a difference? 

 If I could go back in time even 3 months ago and tell myself that I now thought power cords were *more important* than ICs, and then reveal how much I ended up spending on the VD power cords, I would have immediately committed myself. I would now be writing to you from the comfort of the rubber room. 

 Again-- I say for $50 plus a 15-day return policy, the Power 3 is a slam dunk and just might change your mind, too. All you'd be out is the postage back and forth. Of course, once you hear the Power 3, you'll end up upgrading....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Having said that, I want to re-post my caveats and considerations from earlier in this thread for those of you tuning in late:

 1. Someone else said it best when they advised that power cords should be one of the last tweaks in a system you already love. The idea is to add that extra layer of icing on the cake, not to "transform" from a Bose into a Nautilus.

 2. It makes little sense to attach a fancy powercord to a low-cost, mass-produced component that has many cost/performance compromises. Although I'm no electrical engineer, it seem obvious to me that adding "clean power" to "dirty" "noisy" or "cheap" components will do little to erradicate the nasties in the system.
 My components, a Melos Maestro and a heavily-modified Sony SCD-333ES each have very tricked-out, beefy, well-engineered and thoughtfully constructed power supplies. No, they're not cost no object designs, but they're plenty good, good enough to really allow a good power cable to shine. In fact, the Sony also has Bybee filters at the AC Mains to further reduce distortion in power supply. These components also have higher quality parts in the signal path, components that reject "nasties" and let a clean signal pass.
 OK, bottom line, think about your component. Even if it has a removable IC, how good are the parts in there? Good enough to let a POWER CABLE make them sing? If you have your doubts, money should be spent upgrading that component before you swap its power cable!

 3. Your Headphone Listening Style (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showt...listening+style ), will also determine the degree to which you will notice the power cord's effects. Affects like these are best appreciated by people who close their eyes and focus solely on the music. That said, I still think that the astonishing level of change I've experienced in my system would be readily obvious to even a casual listen.

 4. Power conditioners are good. Monster makes some effective and low-cost solutions. I've recently scaled back from an HTS5000 to the new HTS1100 in anticipation of getting these cables. Again, VD reco'd sticking them straight into the wall. Well, the 1100 has fewer stages of filtartation than the HTS5000 yet it still has the surge protection. So, long story short, these results were obtained with the cables plugged into the conditioner, despite a reco that they go straight to the wall for maximum effect.

 markl


----------



## eric343

I wonder... would a good VD power cord make as much or more difference than a BPT Jr?


----------



## dhwilkin

Quote:


 eric343 said...

 I wonder... would a good VD power cord make as much or more difference than a BPT Jr? 
 

I would like to know this too (my rather selfish guess is no 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), as well how much difference it would make in addition to a BP-Jr?

 markl, have you compared the sound of the pc going into the Monster vs the sound going straight into the wall?


----------



## markl

eric,
 As in all things audio the answer is "it depends"...

 In my experience, the VD cables made more of a difference than any power conditioners I've tried. It's also much cheaper than any power conditioner....

 Darkangel,
 Stop teasing and give us your review already!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And no, my Sig Cryos are NOT for sale, and I'm using them both. These cables are now a "permanent" fixture in a system in which nothing is "permanent" outside of my Sony R10s. The VD cables will travel with me everywhere I go in audio from now on. They're that good...

 markl


----------



## markl

Hi dhwilkin,
 I'm paranoid and psychologically *need* the surge protection provided by my Monster HTS1100 (a fine "cheap" power conditioner). So, no, I haven't gone straight to the wall as advised by VD.

 markl


----------



## eric343

markl- I'm sure Vertigo-1 would have said his R10s were a 'permanent' fixture in his system a few months ago, also...


----------



## dhwilkin

Please? Just a quickie half-hour listening test is all I'm asking for. I completely agree w/ the need for surge protection (my BPT unit is plugged into a surge protector), but surely you can risk a half-hour?


----------



## markl

"markl- I'm sure Vertigo-1 would have said his R10s were a 'permanent' fixture in his system a few months ago, also..."

 Yeah but Vert's getting out of the headphone game and I've got nowhere to go but the Orpheus (fat chance of that ending up in my system).

 "Please? Just a quickie half-hour listening test is all I'm asking for. I completely agree w/ the need for surge protection (my BPT unit is plugged into a surge protector), but surely you can risk a half-hour?"

 All you need is $50 and a telephone.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


----------



## daycart1

My cryo basic arrived. I think the woven casing is very attractive. No problem mashing it behind my component console....


----------



## acidtripwow

I received my Virtual Dynamics Power 3 power cord last week and tried it over the weekend. This power cord is huge and heavy. It reminds me of the Tara Labs I had at one time only bigger and heavier. It's as stiff as someone on Viagra! It was like bending a steel cable to get it to go into place. I used it between my Audio Valve RKV II amp and BPT Jr. balanced power conditioner. After that workout I sat down and listened to one of my favorite new DVDs Diana Krall "Live in Paris." The one thing I noticed with the cord in my system was that there was an even blacker background. The amp was dead quiet and all I heard was the clean presentation of the music. My amp now seems to run like a solid state amp but with more warmth and no harshness. The new cord does not take anything away from the music. Everything is clean and crisp as before only more so. From my initial listening sessions I would say that this power cord is definetly worth the investment and I recommend it to anyone looking to tweak their system.


----------



## bkelly

I am going to have to make this as short as possible but I will write more later. First off, after being encouraged by Mark to try the VD cables I called Rick and after a brief discussion I purchased a Power Two for my amp and an Audition for my Pre-amp. This is the the way Rick recommended they be used in my system (Marantz A/V9000 and an ATI power amplifier, both purchased from Mark, BTW). This is a conventional speaker system setup (not headphones) with B&W 605 floor-standing speakers with built in, powered subwoofers in each cabinet. 

 When I first installed them in my system I was shocked at how little they seemed to be doing to improve the sound. The soundstage was a little deeper but almost everything else was no big deal. Within hours though all this had changed and today with about seventy-five hours on them I am beginning to be very impressed.

 Here is where I'd like to address Mark's statement that AC cables are more important than IC's. I think he is right, especially in the sense that IC's can be used to enhance a system sonic features or inhibit some characteristic you don't like. With the VD cables I don't hear many changes like this. In my system everything sounds pretty much the same only better. Much better and more musical. For this reason I think he is also correct in saying that power cables should be the last thing you do to your system.

 The biggest difference is in the soundstage. Not necessarilly bigger as much as it is deeper. Sound emanates from all sides of the speaker now. 

 Another very noticaeble improvement and one I have not really heard before with any other equipment upgrade is the fact the weaker sounding material, FM signals and old big band recordings all of a sudden take a big leap forward in their overall sound making them much more valued recordings. Once again this improvement is in line with what I was saying earlier that they still sound the same only better.

 Got to run.


----------



## daycart1

The Power 3 arrived today. The Basic cryo has the pretty woven clothlike casing. The Power 3 is stiffer and has a black nylon (or some such) outer cover. 
 My wife actually screamed when she saw it around my neck--thought it was a dead snake!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			














 Since y'all have made such a big deal about break in, I've been breaking them in on my computer and monitor. The monitor looks much better--really! (Don't tell me the digital will break it in wrongly...


----------



## DarkAngel

DC1
 I warned readers in this thread that the WAF for the cables was very low........as your story illustrates 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I also like to use my computer to initially breakin AC cords, since they have very large power supply sucking power through the cords. After 4 days in the stereo system they go.

 BKelly
 I also agree that the single biggest improvement these VD AC cords offer is larger 3D soundstage, that is the most obvious
 improvement that I can instantly recognize, and I heard the same thing with VD ICs sound just not as dramatic. The VD References AC cords are also removing some smearing or electronic haze because I am also hearing fine details that were obscured previously.

 I think if you allow 4 days (100hrs) of breakin you will hear the cables at close to peak performance.

 Mark
 You were tough on poor Ricky (all cables sound the same) in that thread, but he deserved to be called out. In all his posts he never once mentioned any cable he has actually owned/compared or tested.........bunch of ivory tower babble.


----------



## bkelly

DarkAngel,

 I'm probaly nearing the 100 hr. point now and everything seems pretty stable but I am paying some attention to comments Mark made to me Saturday about the possibility that his are still breaking in.

 I want to address one of the most important points you bring up in your last thread and that is "detail". My experience seems exactly the same and I remember Mark commenting very early on about hearing things for the first time. It also points to what I was saying yesterday about my system being the same only better. I can definitely hear more detail but it is definitely not because the VD cables highlight some specific frequency that the new details exist in. Instead it sounds to me like somehow the VD cables are bringing out more information. I have been in or around the recording industry all my life so I may be a little more familiar with these things than some others (I know what to look for but do not necessarily hear any better than someone else) but I can hear how the different effects are used on Joni Mitchells's "Dog Eat Dog" CD. Now, instead of hearing the mix as a whole I can hear the layers of effects that were used to put it togehter.

 I don't want to overdue this improvement because I can't hear this all the time but, even still, I've got to think that rather than emphasizing some particular frequency the VD cables are somehow providing more information. I haven't the first clue how they are doing it but that's my read on it.

 I talked (email actually) with Brett at VD and he said that as far as breaking in goes that since the cables provide more current to your equipment you can expect those other components to break in again too. What do you think about that?

 I read somewhere that someone claimed that their amplifier ran cooler after installing the VD cables. I haven't checked mine yet so I don't know but I will soon although that's kind of a difficult test for me because the last time I cecked it I can't remember if was in use or idling so I can only guess as to whether or not in runs cooler.

 That's it for my second installment.

 Talk soon.


----------



## markl

" I talked (email actually) with Brett at VD and he said that as far as breaking in goes that since the cables provide more current to your equipment you can expect those other components to break in again too. What do you think about that?"

 I think that's right on the money. I was thinking about this very thing as I was contemplating how a power cord can affect the sound. The whole system, all the components inside the box, are allowed to operate at a different level with more and better juice at their disposal. I absolutely believe that the component's guts need to "burn in" as much as the cable.

 I would therefore burn my power cable in on the component itself, and that's how I personally approached the burn-in with the power cords.

 markl


----------



## pigmode

How long before the bass bloat goes away with the Power 3?


----------



## Hirsch

The sound takes a while to stabilize (not sure how long). However, the "bloat" that I found problematical in the bass was gone in under a day.


----------



## acidtripwow

It must be PMS pigmode...just kidding.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No bass bloat here just nice clean bass.


----------



## daycart1

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Hirsch _
*Dammit, my Power 3's are just getting broken in, and it's looking like I'm going to have to upgrade already. Somebody post a downside, so I can at least hold off a couple months... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	











* 
 

 When I spoke with Rick, he was inclined to think the Basic Cryo better in most applications than the Power 3. And they are prettier (the casing has a natural linen look instead of the shiny nylon) and they are somewhat more flexible. The Power 3s have more heavy duty terminations.
 So the downside to the Power 3s is that the Basic Cryos might be better and cheaper.


----------



## Crucible

Hmm...I spoke with Brett there this afternoon, who was of a differring opinion: He stated that there is a fairly large (sonic)difference between their Basic in any form, versus the 3 (and the cryo 3 is better than the regular 3 in that repsect as well)...just as there is a difference between at 3 and the other higher models. The primary differences include: the basic is 18 gauge, rather the the 3's solid copper 14 gauge...the level of filtering/shielding that takes place as it's done over the cable and covering itself (hence the size of these models, especially compared to the 'better' models as the shielding on those takes place over the conductors themselves, instead of the conductors and coverings as on the 3 and basic), etc. So, while the Basic is a great cable relatively speaking to stock and many custom cables out there, the 3 is better realtive to the Basic. 

 Whew 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Btw, I'd like to thank him for taking the time to talk to me, a relative newby (on the level that I can appreciate the person who stated something to the effect that they originally thought that buying custom power cords was silly and the height of madness). Brett spoke at length wit me (despite being very busy as thier other service rep's being on their lunch break at the time), answering all my silly questions and educating me about not only their equipment, the difference between them all, and the technical theories behind them-I was impressed enough with the customer service alone to buy right then and there...and of course, the price is surely right too!

 Und zo......I have two Power 3 (cryo's) coming, and my Mg Head is shivering in excitement.

 (Also I'd like to say a good 'damn you, you dirty apes!' to all who's posted their positive experiences here about these cables and other things, especially Markl and Acidtrip. 

 Background: Finding this site originally captured my imagination and desire for sonic excellence....eventually making me obsess enough to buy my Senn 580's and a MG-Head. Knowing the monetary dangerousness of that kind of beginning, I stayed away for some time on purpose. In fact, I thought I'd reached a point where I could, when I had the time, listen to my Senn 580/Mg Head combo and really be satisfied, okay with consciencely ignoring sites like Head-Fi who could change my relative satisfaction with the promise of the latest tweek or toy.

 However, in the last couple of days, having stopped by just to 'check out' the latest info on things (doh!), I've become agian what I feared: an obessive freak, losing sleep with info on all the new tweeks and toys, buying earlier today the 2 system 3 cryos cables, putting down on the list the Wing mod for my MgHead, and seriously looking at new interconnects and a tube CDp. 

 So...damn you all, you dirty apes-my wallet hates you!

 [Looks around to ensure his conscience is taking a break].....Pss....I'll post my experiences when I get the 3's in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 Regards, 

 Cruc


----------



## acidtripwow

Quote:


 (Also I'd like to say a good 'damn you, you dirty apes!' to all who's posted their positive experiences here about these cables and other things, especially Markl and Acidtrip. 
 

Dude, I fell off my chair I was laughing so hard!! The thing that's so funny was that I have a friend and he calls me "dirty ape" all the time.


----------



## markl

Muah hah hah hah hah..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


----------



## bkelly

Well I've had the VD Power Two and the Audirition cables running 24 hrs a day for about ten days now and I think everything is broken in. In fact, in the past few days I cannot really hear any new improvements. So I will stick to what I said in my last thread and that is that the Soundstage improvements are the number one difference I have noticed followed closely by the rendering of a new level of detail. I listened to more Classical music this week than in the first and the soundstage presentation was more beleivable than I had previously thought my system was capable of. You could look right at the speakers and not tell that anything was emerging directly from them.

 The bass would not be as affected in my system as in others since the speakers are bi-amped and those amplifiers are not using the VD cables. Otherwise my system sounds just as before only better. Much better!

 As far as the VD cables being able to deliver more current to the amp thereby causing the amp to run cooler I'm going to say that it's only my best guess since I didn't really measure this scientifically and it's also hard to judge how hard an amp has been working but I feel confident that VD is correct in making this claim (actually it may have been another customer who pointed this out to me).

 Anyhow, I am definitely going to try and work out a deal to get a Reference Power cable for the CD player.

 I hope my comments are helpful. I'll be glad to try and answer anyone's questions if you have any.


----------



## DarkAngel

So we all agree the VD audition, reference, signature AC cords produce excellent enhancement to 3D soundstage creation (best I have ever heard)* as well as the ability to reveal fine details previously obscured by our other AC cords.

 Another good quality is I feel the VD AC cords are very close to nuetral tonally in my system. Other AC cords I have used tend to
 do some of the good things regarding 3D soundstage and detail
 retreval but can do some tonal shifting sounding either warm/rich
 or bright/lean overall. I really can't say the VDs are either, they just sound nuetral which is very good (unless you are trying to
 change your system sound tonally)

 * AC cables I have owned or tried in my system last 4yrs:
 -HT Pro AC11
 -Silver Audio Powerburst
 -Shunyata Sidewinder
 -Shunyata Mamba
 -Synergistic AC master coupler
 -AZ Tsunami
 -Analysis Plus Power Oval
 -Zu Mother
 -Zu Birth
 -Absolute Power Cord

 BKelly
 I have large Classical library and I also was amazed when I played some CDs with huge soundstage like Mahler or Mozart
 Requiem etc, noticeably larger more finely layered 3D soundstage
 that makes listening a real experience!


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 Please ignore that last thread. I don't know what happened.

 Anyhow, I was particularly glad to hear from you again since I thought your experiences paralelled my own very closely. You are absolutely right in pointing out how neutral these cables are. I do not hear any significant tonal differences. This adds weight to Mark's comments about getting your system where you want it before adding the VD power cables. 

 I also appreciate you listing the other cables you have tried. Since I am just getting back into the audio hobby after being absent from it for the past ten years I am not as current on what is what so I can't help but wonder if the kind of improvements we have all noticed are common to other brands of power cables. Your opinion about that would would be very much appreciated.

 Also, do you use a power conditioner?

 I look forward to hearing from you.


----------



## bkelly

I know this is a Headphone oriented website but I can't help but wonder if there is anyone out there ready to try the VD speaker cables. If so, I'd love to hear about your experiences with them.


----------



## Hirsch

I just got an amp, the Grado HPA-1, that may provide some interesting insights on power cords. It has two power options, dual 9v batteries and a regulated AC power supply, along with the ability to switch between them seamlessly. It strikes me as a interesting experiment to try different power cords in front of the power supply, which would allow them to be A/B tested against battery operation (no cord). The umbilical between the power supply and the amp is the Grado Reference cable, which may be a confound of sorts, but so is the internal wiring of an amp...

 In switching from the power supply (original MSRP $125) and battery (2 Plainview 9v rechargeables), the immediate effect is a drop in the noise floor on battery power. Absolutely replicable every time. Would plugging the power supply into the Power 3 make a difference?

 Stay tuned...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (If the VD cord doesn't improve the noise floor on AC power, I AM getting a battery for the ZOTL...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by bkelly _
*I also appreciate you listing the other cables you have tried. Since I am just getting back into the audio hobby after being absent from it for the past ten years I am not as current on what is what so I can't help but wonder if the kind of improvements we have all noticed are common to other brands of power cables. Your opinion about that would would be very much appreciated.

 Also, do you use a power conditioner?

 I look forward to hearing from you. * 
 

You can check my profile button for equipment and see pictures of them at my website button below. Currently using PS Audio High Current Ultimate Outlet for my amps and Monster HTS2000 for front end gear. To answer what I think is your next question, yes
 AC cords do improve sound even when used with power conditioner. Careful audition should be used when choosing power conditioner/surge protector since many restrict dynamics and soften sound, unless you unplug gear though I would always use some type of surge protection. (even then I would still use one!) If I was going to upgrade here I would replace the Monster HTS2000 with used PS Audio P300 for front end gear, @$750 at Audiogon currently.

 Although the AC cords I have owned have all retailed for @$300 or less there is no contest, the VD Reference AC cords are in another league altogether as far as degree of improvement.
 Other cords listed do certain things well and definitely improve sound over stock AC cord (which is why I have tried so many)

 As we have stated here several times you must keep AC cord costs in balance with system value since at a certain point money is more effectively spent on upgrading gear.


----------



## Dusty Chalk

I'm a little confused by two things that seem to be repeated here:

 1 - upgrading power cable provides a bigger improvement than upgrading interconnects;

 2 - upgrade the rest of your system before upgrading power cables.

 Am I missing something? Am I misinterpreting something? Aren't these two contradictory/mutually exclusive?

 Sorry, not meant to be antagonistic, I am legitimately confused.


----------



## markl

Hi bkelly,
 Glad to see the cables worked out for you and that you're thinking of buying a Reference. I'm sure you'll be pleased.

 DarkAngel,
 I, too am now very very very curious about those PSAudio power-regenerating devices, which in the past I thought were over-hyped and over-priced given their function. Now that I understand the importance of power in my system (I now think of it as my system's "life-blood" flowing through all my components 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), I suddenly start to see the potential advantages of completely "perfect" power the PSAudio devices provide.
 I can imagine that the VD cables hooked up into one of those would indeed sound pretty amazing. Let us know if you go that route and how it works with the VDs.

 Dusty,
 I guess I don't see the contradiction. Again, I don't think anyone would reco using $500 ICs between your PCDP and your Altoids amp, that wouldn't make sense. Once you have individual components that can benefit from something like a cable swap, I think that's the time you start looking at fancy ICs, yes? Knowing what I know now, I'd say, once you have your source and amp at the level you want, spend as least as much on your power cord as you do on your ICs, but this should still be proportional to the cost of your source/amp. In other words, don't spend as much on your cables as you did on your components. Does that make sense? 

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Dusty Chalk _
*I'm a little confused by two things that seem to be repeated here:

 1 - upgrading power cable provides a bigger improvement than upgrading interconnects;

 2 - upgrade the rest of your system before upgrading power cables.

 Am I missing something? Am I misinterpreting something? Aren't these two contradictory/mutually exclusive?

 Sorry, not meant to be antagonistic, I am legitimately confused. * 
 

1)Although it sounds ridiculous I got larger improvement in sound from upgrading AC cords to VD Reference Cryo than any cable upgrade I have ever done..........just reporting my results.

 2)That is a bit confusing and I don't really agree with it. I just recommend a balanced approach so you don't spend too much on cables when money would have greater results upgrading gear.
 They both need to be balanced to get maximum effect.

 This is basically what Mark just said above.


----------



## DarkAngel

Mark
 Yes I think ultimately the way to go is used PS Audio P300 (multiwave) for front end gear, and PS Audio High Current Ultimate Outlet (no current limiting) for amps. Now there are the cheaper balanced power units like BPT that Jude bought, but PS Audio 300 does more than clean power. It regenerates power at higher than 60hz which you select or use preset multiwave patterns. This is what makes it unique, at $750 used it is really tempting, I'll have to research more if I seriously want to buy one to see if there are any problems/downside.

 Regardless of what Ric says, I'm sure the VD cords would sound even better coming out of PS Audio P300.


----------



## bkelly

Dusty,

 Sorry, if I said anything to confuse you. First off my comments should be seen more as guidelines rather than rules. I think by saying that you should get your system sorted out before purchasing the VD Power cables I was trying to point out just how neutral these things are. They will not improve the tonal characteristics of a system much in my opinion (bass reproduction I can't speak to as well as others because of my unique situation, see earleir thread) but they will really improve soundstaging and detail in a big way. This effect has been adequately described by myself and others. If you need more top end, mid-range or something like that the VD cables are probably not your next purchase. However, when you finally do call Virtual Dynamics for the icing on the cake you will be very happy you did.

 I hope that makes my comments clearer. You can contact me if you would like.

 Mark,

 Yeah, I'm looking for the Reference Power cable now. I also purchased a set of HD590's and a pair of Koss Porta-Pro's. So you can see you have definitely been a bad influence on me.

 Talk soon.


----------



## DanG

Apparently, the PS Audio power regenerators units claim to provide balanced power but are only balanced to within +/-1V difference, whereas BPT units claim to be better-balanced. Should this sound noticeably worse than a unit with a better balancing scheme but no power regeneration and no multiwave capabilities?


----------



## DarkAngel

The balanced power units use CMR (common mode rejection) to clean the power, but the PS Audio goes one step further completely regenerating perfect AC power "and" allowing you to adjust frequency of power from 60hz, 70hz, 80hz, 90hz etc which is claimed to improve sound even more than standard 60hz AC. The multiwave is a recent uprade which creates pattern of higher frequencies which is supposed to be even more effective, and can sometimes solve the transformer hum/buzz that some gear produces at higher frequencies.

 I have friends that own the PS Audio P300, but I have never tried one in my system. The many reviews for it seem to be extremely positive, and I have seriously considered getting used unit.

 Sorry, don't want to get off topic here. Here is info for P300:
PS Audio P300


----------



## markl

"Mark,

 Yeah, I'm looking for the Reference Power cable now. I also purchased a set of HD590's and a pair of Koss Porta-Pro's. So you can see you have definitely been a bad influence on me."

 Yeah,
 Talking to me is expensive, so think twice before hitting the "PM" button! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nevertheless, I am glad to be of "service". Due to his interaction with me, bkelly went to the Headroom Tour in his area and decided with his own ears that the Senn HD590 was an outstanding headphone, despite its reputation and despite Tyll's warnings, he went ahead and bought it. Good for him! Another headphone innitiate! Welcome to our world, bkelly! As you have seen, headphones indeed have a lot to offer. As I have PM'ed you, if you have any further questions, I am more than happy to help you relieve yourself of your hard-earned dollars!! Cheers and again, welcome!

 markl


----------



## JohnActon

I just wanted to say that you are all bastards! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Everything was fine; I was probably just going to get another PS Audio Mini-lab cable for my CD player (or maybe a Synergistic AC Coupler), but then....

 I read this thread. Dammit, thanks to you guys, it looks like I'll be calling Virtual Dynamics to see what's what. Do you think they are still running any sales? I'm looking at the Audition, but it's pretty expensive. I'd love to try the Reference, but that's TOO expensive. Maybe they have some outlandish sale going.

 Hmmmm.... If I like the sound of the VD going to my player, I'll probably have to upgrade the Mini-lab cables going to my amp and Ultimate Outlet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You guys are killing me!


----------



## bkelly

Mark, 

 Thanks for the vote of confidence!

 Regarding the 590's I've read about them all over the web and every review I can find and they get great reviews and thier owners seem to love them. I'm not sure why Tyll is so hard on them. I was in a rush that day but I liked them immediately and since they do not require an amp they seem to me to about the best buy for me right now. I can't wait to hear what you have to say about them when the "Tour" comes to your area. 

 I sent you an email before I read this so you may have already seen some of these comments but I wanted to let everyone else know that Brett at VD told me generally speaking with their cabling you get more improvement the closer you are to the source. 

 That's my cabling comment for the day.


----------



## bkelly

JohnActon,

 First off, I think Rick or Brett will tell you the straight dope on what is what in the price performance area and Rick told me where to put what level of cable in my system to get the best results. Ask him about the Power Two's with cryo. They seem like a good deal to me.


----------



## qwerty870

Because of this thread I bought a Cryo treated Power 2 on audiogon. I certainly hope it is worthy of all this hype.


----------



## JohnActon

I recently purchased two Reference (Cryo) power cords from Virtual Dynamics. Brett sold them to me for half price!!! That's $375 a piece, as opposed to $750! Amazing deal.

 I understand that this was not just a one-off deal for me specifically. Rather, this seems to be something they're offering customers who call and order from them directly, as opposed to using their burgeoning line of dealers. 

 If anyone has been considering looking in to any of their cables, now is the time to jump on this. Who knows how long this will last?

 I haven't received my cables yet, but will post my impressions once I do.


----------



## DarkAngel

Now you're talking John.......as far as price deals I think VD has several dealers now that is not going to go over well with them, so they will have to choose between direct sell and dealers can't do both.

 The reference cryo is just flat out fabulous AC cord, the 1st place to go is your CDP, I got most noticeable benefit there. Ref Cryo will outperform just about any other $3-400 range AC cord, I am pretty sure your PS Audio mini labs are heading for the bench after 100hrs burn in of the Ref Cryo's

 Put my 2nd one on preamp. I also have PS Audio HC Ultimate Outlet for amps and unfortunately for our wallets not only does AC cord from UO to amp effect sound, also from wall to UO! But I would start at the source and work out from there to amps.

 Have you upgraded wall outlet to PS Audio Power Port?


----------



## JohnActon

Hey Dark Angel,

 Yes, that is a screaming deal, but I think it's just a temporary sale. 

 Yep, I'm going to put the two References on my CD player and amp. Brett said burn-in lasts for about 250 hours on those cables. 

 Not sure what to do about the Ultimate Outlet yet. Virtual Dynamics advocates (strongly) not using power conditioning devices, stating that, in their experience, they quash the very voltage that the VD cords are working so hard to pass. I'm not sure yet whether I agree with that; the UO is supposed to be designed to NOT limit any current and/or voltage delivery. I'll have to try it both ways and see.

 As to the cord for UO, I definitely noticed a difference in upgrading from the stock UO cord to another PS Audio Mini-Lab cable. If I decide to keep with the UO, I suspect that there'll be another phone call to Brett in my near future (sigh). As I'm considering getting back into speakers again, that's just more money to be spent. 

 I have not even thought about upgrading the actual wall outlet itself. Are there sizable benefits to be derived from upgrading the outlet? I live in an apartment and am a little reluctant to upgrade when I won't be staying permanently.

 Hey, I may PM you, as I'm curious about your speaker-based rig, especially the Musical Fidelity stuff. I'm looking into some nice speakers (Thiel, Revel, Meadowlark, etc) and a nice integrated amp (Plinius, Musical Fidelity, Cary, etc). I'd really value your opinions.


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 I'm surpprised that no one else has asked you this question: Since the PS Audio P300 "regenerates" the power wouldn't that negate the need for hi-end power cabling? Since you plan to do both you must believe that you need it. What is your theory here? Thanks!


----------



## DarkAngel

BK
 If only it were true, money could be saved. But unfortunately "if"
 you find a power conditioner that really improves the music signal (they often restrict dynamics) it still sounds better with upgraded AC cord from conditioner to gear, and even more baffling from wall outlet to conditioner (to a lesser degree) in my experience!

 Power Cords definitley affect the sound, but they cannot do the same function that a balanced conditioner or regeneration unit like PS Audio P300 does, since cords are passive devices. The "Dynamic filtering" that VD uses actually tries to eliminate mechanical vibrations that can cause distortion and smearing in gear, this in not addressed at all by any power conditioner.

 However I am still playing with the VD cords in different arrangements, the guys at VD claim that they sound better with no power conditioning and I guess they should know, but personally I would never run my system with no surge protection!

 Sorry BK I have no real scientific theory, I just try differerent things and see how they sound.......I may be fooling myself who knows 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 BTW when people ask this very logical question I always point out that PS Audio also sells expensive after market AC cords to use with their power regeneration units.


----------



## DarkAngel

JA
 You have some nice gear there, didn't realize you had a headphone only set-up. Headphones unfortunately will not really
 showcase the most obvious change the VD cords produce, huge
 3D soundstage, but will still produce great results as Mark indicated for his system.


----------



## markl

Hi bkelly,
  Quote:


 Since the PS Audio P300 "regenerates" the power wouldn't that negate the need for hi-end power cabling? Since you plan to do both you must believe that you need it. What is your theory here? Thanks! 
 

The same question could be asked about using any power conditioner with aftermarket power cords. Indeed, that was my initial reservation-- if, in theory, my power conditioner already provides "clean power" to my components, why do I need better quality power cords?

 Yet my amazing results completely contradicted my expectations. I have to believe that the VD cords hooked up to a PS Audio-style power regenerator would maximize what the VD cords can do, rather than being superfluous. 

 I'm not sure I agree with DA about the effects being more noticeable through non-headphone gear. Granted I'm listening through the R10's which let you hear every upstream upgrade in minute detail, but the results I got (which started all this commotion), were obtained in my headphone rig AND plugged into a Monster HTS 1100 power conditioner, so go figure.

 Sure I'm tempted to plug the VD cords straight into the wall, but, like DA, I psychologically *need* the surge protection.

 markl


----------



## daycart1

My theory (based mostly on nothing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) is that the improvement from good power cords is not from "more power" or the like. It is instead from better shielding which lowers noise.

 If that is right, then it would make perfectly good sense to combine power conditioning with upgrade cords.


----------



## DarkAngel

Mark
 You may be interested to know that my VD Signature Cryo IC has now become my main system IC. After long and careful comparisons with HT ProSilway II, HG Silver Lace etc the VD Sig
 finally showed its mettle and pulled ahead.

 The main strong point, like the VD Reference AC cords, is the ability to expand the perceived 3D soundstage better than any other IC I have tried in my system. The VD "dynamic filtering" must really be removing mechanical vibrations because I got a similar effect the first time I tried bearing isolation in my system. The bass is also deeper without being muddy or boomy, very good detailing of bass region.

 My initial concern with treble extension has been "somewhat" relieved, although not quite as extended as ProSilway II it is close enough when taken as a whole it becomes the superior IC. I'm afraid to try VD speaker cables, where does it end?

 May be time to trim my cable collection, to make room for some more VDs


----------



## markl

Just got an e-mail from VD alerting me to their re-vamped website. Take a look:

www.virtualdynamics.ca

 There was also this note about the special pricing:

 "Every product available on the website is 50% off the shown retail price*. We invite you to try our products again at "dealer cost" and ask that you continue to spread the word and send us your review.

 But HURRY this offer only lasts until June 30th 2002."

 Looks like you better jump if you've been on the fence! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


----------



## markl

Hmmmm..... Now that I read it more closely, I'm wondering if the sale price is for existing customers only. It's not clear...

 markl


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 Of course I was hoping that you'd say just get the PS Audio unit and some lamp cord and you'll be be in hi-fi heaven but I wasn't truly expecting it. Thanks for the nice reply.

 I just bought a VD Reference cable to add to my system and I plan to just keep going until everything is VD. 

 I read your comment about the top end with the VD cable system and I also have some concerns about it. It does seem a little soft but only just a little. You can hear eveything but it does'nt hit as hard as I would like sometimes.

 The soundstage is really big. I just listened to several CD's I hadn't played since I put in the VD cables and I was shocked at how much larger and deeper the soundstage was.

 I can't wait for you to get the speaker cables. You'll be the first that I know of to get them. I can't wait to hear your comments.


----------



## pigmode

Has anyone compare the Luminous Synchestra Signature with the VD Signature Cryo IC? It is another high regarded copper IC.


----------



## JohnActon

Quick question for bkelly and DarkAngel - is it the Virtual Dynamics AC cords that soften the treble (slightly, you said) or is it the interconnects (or both)? I'm a little confused. Just curious.

 Brett e-mailed me a couple of days ago to let me know my Reference AC cords were about ready. Should be here fairly soon, me thinks!

 DarkAngel, thanks for the comments regarding my system. Your observation that I listen to a headphones-only system is correct, but interestingly enough, I've decided to jump back into speakers. I'm currently looking at (and listening to) some nice amps, speakers and cables. It'll have to be one hell of a high-resolution system, however, to match the resolving power of my Stax setup. I'm not sure I can afford that kind of system, but we'll see.


----------



## DarkAngel

JA
 These comments are all relative, the VD Reference AC or IC has good treble performance for a copper cable, but I was comparing to silver IC like ProSilway II, Silver Lace and saying that they had a bit more treble extension which you would expect. This is not major fault, just pointing out differences I hear. 

 The massive 3D sounstage ability of the VD references are their main strength, it is here that they surpass just about any cable in their price range, this is where they will "knock your socks off"

 Keep in mind some systems don't need any additional treble energy or need to reduce it to sound more natural. It is tricky to get good clean extended treble that doesn't sound bright or hard
 with CD playback, latest upsampling Dacs/CDPs however have really improved the treble quality of CD playback. I will still keep some silver cables in my system and mix with VD cables.

 You are correct that it is almost impossible for stereo to match the detail resolution of good headphones, but good stereo blows away headphones in 3D soundstage therefore is my primary listening source.

 BK
 I will not be getting any VD speaker cables, I am very happy with my Analysis Plus Silver Ovals.


----------



## Nezer

Hmm...

 Anyone else weary of a product that has both male and felmale connectors and has the initials 'VD'?


----------



## bkelly

Nezer,

 That's funny!

 JohnActon,

 I almost hated to bring the top-end issue up since I am not truly sure if it has diminished or is just different. How much or how little top-end your system has seems to be the most personal issue between different hi-end owners. Myself, I probably prefer more than most so my comments have to be considered with that in mind.

 I will say this that most people's systems are brighter than the real thing, anyway. If for no other reason than the way modern recordings are EQ'd at mastering. Everbody knows this but it's worth repeating that most recordings are engineered to sound good on your car radio. Since those systems cannot easily reproduce the top and bottom these extremes are emphasized in the recording. No orchestra in the world ever put out the kind of top-end that most hi-fi sytems do.

 So there is that to consider. Noe,back to the VD cables top-end. I hate to use a worn out term like "tubey" but that is the best descriptiom of what I am talking aboput. The differences is that the VD stuff has a ton of detail and that's what makes the cable's sound so hard to describe.



 Don't worry, you are gonna love them. Almost everyone is saying that they are the best of the best


----------



## bkelly

John,

 Sorry about that . 

 I also wanted top add that my system is a mixture of Power Two's and an Audition and would probably sound better yet if everything was the same. I have an Reference on the way.

 My CD player is also no big deal. So keeping all that in mind when considering my opinions.

 I can't wait to hear your what you think of the cables.

 I should add here that I didn't like mine at all when I first got them. They really, really had to break in. Once that happened I was pretty much astounded. I still get a little spooked about the soundstage. You can't help but wonder where it all came from.


----------



## markl

bkelly said:
 "I have an Reference on the way."

 He he. I think I've created a monster!!! Good for you bkelly. Your opinion means a lot to me and I'm so glad that the VD cables have worked out so well for you!

 Now, about your source...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 markl


----------



## JohnActon

DarkAngel, bkelly,

 Thanks for the feedback, especially regarding the top-end extension of the VD cables. I don't mind a _little_ euphonic sweetning in a tubey sort of way, but definitely don't want any significant rolloff of the high-end. 

 BTW, my Reference Power cables arrived today. You guys are right, and I totally agree with Mark and DarkAngel that these things are a fricking nightmare to install. Holy ****, I've never seen anything like these when it comes to being stiff and unwieldy. I felt like Crocodile Hunter behind my rack trying to man-handle these things into place. My CD player weighs 35 pounds so there was no real problem there, but the rest of my equipment is all fairly lightweight - the VD cables kept wanting to either push them all over the place or pop out of the power receptacle. I finally got it taken care of, but the one cord still doesn't seem like it's completely in all the way. What an ordeal.

 They are extremely cool looking, however, and seem to imply visually that they mean business.

 Since they seem to require a lot of break-in, I will wait a day or two to start really listening to them. Is it enough to just leave your gear on to burn them in?


----------



## markl

Yes, they're stiffer than any other cable... But have you ever had a cable that appeared to be better built than the VD cables? No, I thought not. 

 I can't help but think you'll come to see that the cables you have are the best you've ever had... by a large margin.

 Sure they're big and unwieldy... but have you ever owned a cable that well-made? Not likely....

 markl


----------



## markl

"BTW, my Reference Power cables arrived today. You guys are right, and I totally agree with Mark and DarkAngel that these things are a fricking nightmare to install. Holy ****, I've never seen anything like these when it comes to being stiff and unwieldy. What an ordeal.

 They are extremely cool looking, however, and seem to imply visually that they mean business."

 Wait til you hear how incredible they sound.... It's not as though you weren't warned about them...."

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

JA
 The best way to approach the Reference AC cords is to pre-bend them and hold them where they install and keep making bend adjustments till cable is exact shape you want, then plug in.
 Fortunately cord retains shape you bend, so it is manageable.
 You don't want to put undue twisting force on AC outlets in your gear so try to pre-bend as close as possible.

 Then strap in for holographic 3D expansion of soundstage, can you stand to wait a couple days or will you have to listen now


----------



## bkelly

Johm,

 Congratulations! I can't wait to hear yuor comments. 

 Regatding how difficult they are to install I was so about that that I came close to not buying them. When I finally did order 
 them I did just as Dark Angel suggests and pre-bent them and tied them in coils with wire ties (Rick says this is OK). I had it all layed out in my mind exactly how I was going to do it before they even arrived. The good news is that, like Dark Angel points out, once bent to form they pretty much stay that way.

 I know you said you were going to burn them in before listening them but I bet you won't be able to wait very long before giving them a sneak listen. 

 I'm anxiously awaiting your first review.

 Mark,

 Did you find out if the VD sale is for former customers or the general public.

 Talk soon.


----------



## markl

"Mark,

 Did you find out if the VD sale is for former customers or the general public.

 Talk soon."

 Nope don't know if that's it, but folks should go for it just in case.... It's a no-lose proposition. If I needed any other cables prior to the end of June-- I'd order VD cables now... As it happens, I have all the cables I need at the moment...

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

*Don't read this if you value your sanity and your wallet!* 

 I think I will sell my PS Audio Ultimate Outlet and use proceeds to buy another VD Reference AC cord, this will have to connect to Bel Canto Dac 1.1, a very hard challenge if you know how small this unit is:
Bel Canto Dac 1.1 
 This unit although small has elaborate power supplies that respond to AC cord upgrades. I think if I pre-bend carefull I can use the VD Reference here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW step one is complete, Ultimate Outlet is listed at Audiogon, will not last 24hrs there trust me, call to Canada coming very soon..... heh,heh,heh


----------



## DarkAngel

Well it took a whole 6hrs to sell my Ultimate Outlet, Ric gets his call Monday morning for AC Reference Cryo #3.

 I see Mark couldn't resist playing mind games with Ricky


----------



## JohnActon

DarkAngel,

 Just curious - why did you sell your UO to help buy another VD Reference power cord? Are you starting to agree with the boys at Virtual Dynamics that these power conditioning devices should be kept out of the signal path? 

 I was actually considering (assuming I like the sound of the two References that I am currently burning in) another Reference to go between the wall and my UO. But now, I may try it both ways.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by JohnActon _
*DarkAngel,

 Just curious - why did you sell your UO to help buy another VD Reference power cord? Are you starting to agree with the boys at Virtual Dynamics that these power conditioning devices should be kept out of the signal path? 

 I was actually considering (assuming I like the sound of the two References that I am currently burning in) another Reference to go between the wall and my UO. But now, I may try it both ways. * 
 

This is going to sound crazy, but to me the old Monster HTS2000 sounds better vs PS Audio UO. I have tried many power conditioners including new Monster PB2100 nothing sounds better. I think it would take full blown PS Audio P300 to unseat it. I use the Monster HTS2000 in conjunction with 8 Audioprism Quietlines II and I get great results. Plus now I need one less AC cord, but still using 6 cords........costly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So to answer your question, I still use VD cords with Monster 2000. I think part of my treble reservations were caused by running amps through Ultimate Outlet which softened the sound very slightly vs Monster 2000 in my system

 I realize many times people mistake the removal of distortion and grain as softening the sound when in fact there is more detail just cleaner and more relaxed presentation. Many may prefer the Ultimate Outlet effect especially if your current system is a touch bright sounding.


----------



## JohnActon

DarkAngel, hmmmm.... that's interesting to hear you say that your UO was softening the top-end, even if slightly. I'm going to have to play around with mine. At any rate, like Mark, I feel more secure with some kind of power protection, and as I live in an apartment, I enjoy the increased transparency of power conditioning. If I find that the UO DOES soften the treble, and to an unacceptable degree, than maybe I'll look at a used Power Plant.

 I've let the VD Reference AC cables cook for the last few days, and even though I realize that they may not be fully burned-in, I couldn't wait any longer to listen (critically). Here are my brief impressions: these cables sound excellent (especially in light of their current sale price). The soundstage is more expansive and more importantly, the musical images seem to be both more coherent, and more focused, within the soundstage. Sounds that used to seem like they were originating from the "speakers" now seem to be disassociated more from them. The central images float behind the plane of the speakers and are rendered with excellent palpability and solidity. Very convincing. 

 The bass was a little bloated at first, but this has worn off. There is great extension, but no extra muddiness. The midrange is infused with a kind of glow that gives voices and instruments greater realism, and due to the lowered noise floor (at least that's what it sounds like to me), the References seem to render images a little more cleanly. The treble, for me, may be the best part. Cymbals sound more realistic - a little bit of haze I hadn't realized was there previously is gone. Cymbals seem to shimmer more - there's no additional brightness, but I can better hear the stick hitting the metal at the beginning and I can better hear the decay of the cymbal at the end. Sibilance is reproduced more cleanly. There seems to be more extension and air, while paradoxically, glare is reduced. More detail, less harshness.

 Needless to say, I'm extremely pleased. In fact, I'm so pleased, I just called Brett and ordered an additional Reference (at the sale price, I couldn't pass it up). The only problem I'm facing is that of which component on which to install it, the Stax 006t amp or the Ultimate Outlet.


----------



## DarkAngel

JA
 Somehow Mark and I knew you would like the References 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I only wish you had regular speaker stereo system so you could really hear in life size how much 3D soundstage expansion just occurred, you would really be impressed! BTW what AC cords were you using prior to VD References, just PS Audio mini labs or do you have others?

 FYI Ric & Brett said they both read this thread everyday!


----------



## markl

Hi JA,
 Very glad they worked out for you. And sorry about your pocketbook! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe I missed it-- what equipment do you have them plugged into now?

 DA,
 You mentioned you tried the Monster PB2100 which is the replacement for the 2000, yet you preferred the old 2000. Can you comment some more on that? I have the 1100 which is the same as the 2100 but with fewer outlets, so my results were obtained with that. Also, have you asked Ric or Brett about the PS Audio regenerators? If so, what are their thoughts on those in conjunction with their power cords?

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*DA,
 You mentioned you tried the Monster PB2100 which is the replacement for the 2000, yet you preferred the old 2000. Can you comment some more on that? I have the 1100 which is the same as the 2100 but with fewer outlets, so my results were obtained with that. Also, have you asked Ric or Brett about the PS Audio regenerators? If so, what are their thoughts on those in conjunction with their power cords?

 markl * 
 

Mark I carefully compared new PB2100 to old HTS2000 and in my system the 2000 was more extended, detailed and dynamic sounding, its like the spires were rounded and everything smoothed out with PB2100. Also compared the 2000 to old 3500 same result 2000 sounded much better for audio......can't comment on video performance. I know the PB2100 has much better surge protection but for audio I prefer the old 2000 used with Audioprism Quitelines II throughout room.

 I have not asked VD guys about their views on any particular power conditioning system, so no info here.

 The good news is you can still buy new Monster HTS2000 for $105 many places and set of 8 Quietlines II are $179 at Galen Carol


----------



## JohnActon

DA, not to let the cat out of the bag, but I _have_ been using these with speakers. I'm getting back into speakers, so I currently have the VD References on my Cary CD 303/200 player and Bryston B60R integrated amp. The third Reference is either going on my Ultimate Outlet (currently fed by a PS Audio Mini-Lab cable) or on my Stax amp. Prior to the References, I was using the stock cord that came with the Cary on the Cary, and a PS Audio Mini-Lab cable on the Bryston. 

 Mark, thanks for the encouragement - these cables _are_ definitely something special. With the sale prices that VD has going on right now, I'd be a fool not to make sure my cable needs are covered (at least for now).


----------



## markl

JA,
 Glad to be of service. When I come across something that think is special I want to tell the world. The VD cables are indeed in a league of their own.

 "FYI Ric & Brett said they both read this thread everyday!"

 Now... about my commission...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just kidding.

 So... who's next? Time is ticking on the sale.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


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## bkelly

John,

 I see you got hooked quick. Your review was especially well written.

 Mark,

 Thanks to you, it won't be my first at bat for the VD cables. I think I'm up next for a set of Signature interconnects. Point me to the plate.

 By the way, the Melos is here. It's BAAAAAD!!! (in a good way, of course) 

 To Rick and Brett,

 If you really do read this thread everyday I wish I were in you guys shoes because I think you are going to be seriously successful.

 The Very Best To Both Of You And Everyone At Virtual Dynamics. 


 Brian Kelly


----------



## markl

OK, so by my count, so far we have the following Head-Fiers in the "VD-power-cables-make-a-positive-improvement" department:

 1. markl 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 2. DarkAngel
 3. JohnActon
 4. acidtripwow
 5. Hirsch
 6. 2 Channel
 7. dcg
 8. bkelly


 There are a few others who reported purchases, but did not provide any feedback.

 Anyone with enough nerve to call all 8 of us liars, or self-deluded placebo-affected dummies? I'm calling you out Rickster.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Who you gonna believe, folks who've actually taken the time to listen to these cords in their systems, or someone who has never heard a decent cable, probably has a a crappy system, and relies entirely on theory without any first-hand experience? You be the judge.

 markl


----------



## hokiefritz

Just chiming in. 

 I have the Virtual Dynamics Power 3 hooked up to my Sugden Headmaster and have noticed a small improvement in detail and imaging. I think. I have it plugged into a $20 ratshack surge protector though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would plug it straight into the wall but available space is tight and I'd have to rearrange my room because of the cord. The size of these cords is a huge PITA. Perhaps it's time for a fancy power conditioner... 

 Fifty bucks for a big fat pain in the ass cord that impacts the sound of your system in a positive way is a pretty good deal. It might be hard for some to believe it could make a difference, but it's a relatively cheap test and if you don't like 'em you could use them as a weapon against an intruder.


----------



## DarkAngel

*Oh no, I did it again!* 
 Well boys just ordered 2 VD Power Two Cryo AC cords with the new Flexi-twist connectors........these will go on my two Musical Fidelity XAS100 amps. 

 Currently using Zu Mothers here which are a very fast detailed AC cord, be interesting to compare the two.

*Hirsch* 
 It is long past time that you ordered some more VD cables besides those Power Threes........how much longer can you resist


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Hirsch
 It is long past time that you ordered some more VD cables besides those Power Threes........how much longer can you resist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



* 
 

I'm trying to resist until I have money to pay for them...but am not sure I will make it that long


----------



## wacomme

I thought this post is more appropriate here than in the "power cord" thread which has broken down into complaining and bravado. 

 quote:
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Originally posted by markl 
 Hi Michael, 
 Besides the Corda, what are you going to put the other Power 3 on? Did you get the cryo versions? 

 And what's this about "new flexible Power 3's"? Have they changed them? That can only be a good thing as the version I had was a bit unwieldy, to put it gently. 

 What ICs did you get, and where are those going? Please feel free to add your comments (good/bad/indifferent) in the VD thread and maybe answer this post there. Cheers. 

 markl 

 P.S. Ricky can't be in our club. Neener neener. 
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



 I have a SCD-CE775 cdp (the cheap $180 models with SACD) that I may mod by replacing the attached power with a connector that accepts the Power 3 cord. 

 Yes. I got the cryo Power 3's and their new "flexible" Power 3 cable ($100 each). 

 I bought a demo Audition cryo IC for $200. 

 I basically bought these power cords on markl's and others rave reviews. Right now I can't believe I spent $400 on power cords and $525 for a Corda and Senn 600 to use with my CE775. I'm thinking now that this was an insane purchase. The proof will be when I hear the sound. Again, if there isn't a "dramatic" sound improvement, the cables will be return. If I'm totally awed by the Power 3 on the amp and the IC's, I'll mod the cdp. Hey, I'll try anything as long as I can return the products if not satisfied. It's worth the shipping cost to me to give the cables a try, especially when the cords are half price until the end of June. 


 Michael


----------



## DarkAngel

Mike
 Yes, we have stressed this many times that you must take a balanced approach to cable purchases since money can often have better effect upgrading gear. Don't go too overboard buying expensive cables unless you have system value that warrants higher priced cables and can effectively use them.


----------



## wacomme

DarkAngel,

 I suppose I got carried away with my cable purchase. I'll just wait and see how they sound and then decide what I want to do. I do have a 14 day trial period; I can always return the cables. How much an improvement I hear that will determine if I keep the cables or return the cables is undetermined. I really don't know how I'll decide if the improved sound/price ratio is higher in keeping the cables or replacing my cdp. I figure the half price sale at Virtual Dynamics makes purchasing the cables a bit of an incentive at this time. markl seems to think the VD power cords has a bigger improvement in sound than upgrading cdp's and amps? 

 Michael


----------



## markl

"markl seems to think the VD power cords has a bigger improvement in sound than upgrading cdp's and amps? "

 That's not at all what I've said. I've said repeatedly and re-posted repeatedly my "rules" for upgrading power cords. I'll do it again:

 1. Someone else said it best when they advised that power cords should be one of the last tweaks in a system you already love. The idea is to add that extra layer of icing on the cake, not to "transform" from a Bose into a Nautilus.

 2. It makes little sense to attach a fancy powercord to a low-cost, mass-produced component that has many cost/performance compromises. Although I'm no electrical engineer, it seem obvious to me that adding "clean power" to "dirty" "noisy" or "cheap" components will do little to erradicate the nasties in the system.
 My components, a Melos Maestro and a heavily-modified Sony SCD-333ES each have very tricked-out, beefy, well-engineered and thoughtfully constructed power supplies. No, they're not cost no object designs, but they're plenty good, good enough to really allow a good power cable to shine. In fact, the Sony also has Bybee filters at the AC Mains to further reduce distortion in power supply. These components also have higher quality parts in the signal path, components that reject "nasties" and let a clean signal pass.
 OK, bottom line, think about your component. Even if it has a removable IC, how good are the parts in there? Good enough to let a POWER CABLE make them sing? If you have your doubts, money should be spent upgrading that component before you swap its power cable!

 3. Your Headphone Listening Style (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showt...listening+style ), will also determine the degree to which you will notice the power cord's effects. Affects like these are best appreciated by people who close their eyes and focus solely on the music. That said, I still think that the astonishing level of change I've experienced in my system would be readily obvious to even a casual listen.

 4. Power conditioners are good. Monster makes some effective and low-cost solutions. I've recently scaled back from an HTS5000 to the new HTS1100 in anticipation of getting these cables. Again, VD reco'd sticking them straight into the wall. Well, the 1100 has fewer stages of filtartation than the HTS5000 yet it still has the surge protection. So, long story short, these results were obtained with the cables plugged into the conditioner, despite a reco that they go straight to the wall for maximum effect.

 In my history of "tweaks", I would rank the degree of change wrought by the Power 3 in my system thusly:

 1. Power 3
 2. Getting my Modwright mods for my SCD-333ES (that's a BIG difference)
 3. Upgrading to fancy interconnects
 4. Swapping tubes
 5. Adding a power conditioner
 6. Vibrapods (very little, if any noticeable effect)

 However, it should be noted that without that existing foundation of tweaks, the Power 3 would not have had as dramatic and noticeable impact, so it's sort of an arbitrary ranking in a way.

 Since that post I upgraded my power 3's to Signature Cryos which are fabulous, thank you very much.

 As for how much one should spend on Power cables vs. ICs, given the fundamentally larger effects of adding the VD power cords, I would advise spendfing at least as much on the power cord as you would on ICs.

 But again, you wouldn't add a $1000 cable from your portable mp3 player to your Altoids amp, nor should you over-spend on power cables.

 markl


----------



## wacomme

markl.

 I'm sorry for putting words in your mouth. There was no ill-intention. 

 What do you think of my VD purchase for the system I have?

 cdp: Sony CE775 (no mods yet)
 amp: Corda HA-1
 phones: Sennhesiser 600 (regular cable) & Etymotic ER4S
 power: VD Power 3 cryo
 interconnect: VD Audition cryo. 

 Michael

 PS: I'm still waiting on delivery of the VD cables and Corda.


----------



## CRESCENDOPOWER

Just out of curiosity do these cables come with a life time warranty? Is the price for 9 feet of the Signiture Power Cable 1/2 of what is listed? Or, will I pay full retail. Thanks!


----------



## markl

"I'm sorry for putting words in your mouth. There was no ill-intention."

 No sweat.

 "What do you think of my VD purchase for the system I have?"

 cdp: Sony CE775 (no mods yet)

 Are you going to add a detachable IEC socket yourself? You are a braver man than me! I have zero DIY skills. Good luck. If it works out, you will likely get some benefit from the Power 3.

 amp: Corda HA-1

 Everything I've read leads me to believe that the Corda is a fine amp at its price point. I think it would definitely benefit from a Power 3.

 phones: Sennhesiser 600 (regular cable) & Etymotic ER4S

 Both great headphones that will let you hear things like cable upgrades.

 power: VD Power 3 cryo
 interconnect: VD Audition cryo.

 I have the next step up, the Reference between my SACDP and amp and find it to be a terrific IC, better than any other I've heard. I'm sure the Audition is an outstanding cable that you can take with you as you upgrade sources/amps.

 markl


----------



## markl

CRESCENDOPOWER,
 You should just call VD on their toll free #. They are very friendly and will answer all questions. Cheers.

 markl


----------



## bkelly

In support of what DarkAngel has said about the effects of the Virtual Dynamics cable having a more noticeble effect on (speaking of the soundstage improvement) loudspeakjers as opposed to headphones I accidentally came to understand exactly what DK was talking about. When I started the VD cable experiment I didn't have a full headhone system and so except for the headphone input on the Maranz pre-amplifier I used my conventional speakers to test the cables. Since then I have purchased a Melos Sha-1 (un-modified but with Amperex tubes) and a pair of Sennheiser HD 590's (w/stock cable). 

 Yesterday the Reference (non-cryo) I purchased from a private individual arrived in the mail so this gave me the perfect opportunity to test this cable with the Melos and plugged directly in the wall outlet. I was shocked at how little difference there seemed to be in the soundstage with the headphones as opposed to the effect the Audition and Power Two (both cryo) had on my loudspeakers when I first installed them. At first, in the pre-amp, I thought the Reference might somehow be inferior to the Audition or Power Two but on closer listening you could tell and hear what the Reference was doing but, still, there was no way it would compare with the effect the other cables had on the loudspeakers in a large room.


 I haven't yet put the Reference in with the loudspeaker system but I think I know what the results will be. It will be like the earlier cables only better. If not I will inform everyone here.


----------



## markl

bkelly,
 Hi! I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you're saying. If I understand correctly, you are saying that attaching the reference to the Melos SHA-1, had no effect over stock cable. Is that correct?

 markl


----------



## bkelly

Mark,


 Stop the Preses!!! No, I definitely didn't mean that. What I was trying to express was that on loudspeakers the soundstagfing effect is quite a bit more dramatic than on headphones. When I first put the Reference cable on the Melos and started listening I was looking for the same dramatic difference I heard on the loudspeakers to be there on the headphones and it simply isn't.

 The key word here is "dramatic" because technically speaking it's all still there on the headphones but the headphones cannot duplicate the kind of spatial realism that my speakers can. It may be diffeent for you on your R10's since they are renown for there soundstaging abilities. With my speakers I now hear voices and instruments that literally sound as if they are three feet from the speaker. In fact the B&W's I have used to sound a little to clear and clinical to me but now they sound somewhat like electro-statics.

 To make my point easier to understand what I should have said was that if you like your VD cables on your headphones your gonna really love them on conventional speakers. Unless, of course, you own a set of R10's.

 I hope that makes it more clear. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## DarkAngel

Where is everybody?
 I guess everyone has seen the new VD website with better photos and product info. I asked the VD boys what cables they are selling the most now......they said many customers who bought the $50-75 P3 from special at Audiogon are now upgrading to Audition cords and also selling many Nite cables.

 Look at those Nite speaker cables and AC cords, wow those are beautiful cables!
Nite AC Cord 
 The price of $750 direct for Nite cord may seem astronomical to us, but guys with 20-100K systems buy them no problem since many bought those Shunyata King Cobras at $2,000 each so this is a real deal!


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by bkelly _
* Unless, of course, you own a set of R10's.* 
 

Dammit, you would have to add that last sentence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was trying to escape another cord upgrade right now.


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 Well, I'm around and guess what I did? Yesterday I called Rick and Brett and after deciding to break the bank and purchase two Signature interconnects I let Rick talk me into buying two Nite interconnects and testing the Nite Power cable.

 For weeks now both Rick and Brett have ben raving to me about the Nite series stuff continously and in very, very enthusiastic terms so I felt compelled to try it. Myself, I worry that my system is not hi-end enough (about $6,000.00 invested at list prices) to properly evaluate these products but Rick feels very confident.

 I also spent well over an hour on the phone with him asking him every conceivable question I could think of relationg to his products and I was very impressed with his responses. He's into the technology behind his products in a big way. He's also a long way from some guy in his basement playing with wires. There is much more to it than that, I assure you. I won't even begin to explain some of his theories or pretend to understand them either but he's into this stuff all the way down to the nuclear level and maybe well beyond that.

 Well, that's my news.

 Talk soon.



 Brian

 P.S. I keep looking for a spot to get off the hi-fi purchasing merry-go-round but I have found it yet. I hope this is it for me for awhile.


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## bkelly

Hirsch,

 Your reply was funny.

 I looked up your profile and you've got a lot of gear. Still, there is clearly room for a few more exotic power cables. Besides, someone needs to join me in the Nite series quest. I feel all alone in this and truthfully on this website I am the rookie. 

 Help, help, someone throw me a line.

 Where's Mark, anyhow? He usually helps me before I get into water this deep!


----------



## DarkAngel

*OMG BK!* 
 You have cable fever no doubt, lets tally up the total damage:
 Nite 1m IC pair - $700 each 
 Nite AC cord - $750 each
 If you end up keeping all three thats 2K+ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Please let us know your impressions, as I said previously they are beautiful cables plus I like the fact that they are silver vs copper in other VD cables. I have read other owners grumble about the stiffness of Nite cables, let us know how that works out.

 Those calls to Canada are dangerous.......heh,heh,heh

 PS....don't tell Ricky what you just did.


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 I've been trying not to add that up. Hell, I've got three other VD cables already and to be honest I am not rich I'm a well paid technician but this stuff is way out of my league. You don't know it but only three months ago I had been out of the hi-fi hobby for about seven years. I still had some of my eqiupment but most of it was gone. It wouldn't set-up conveniently in our new house so I let it sit or just sold it. On a trip to the local hi-end audio shop with a friend to help him make a selection I fell in love with a set of B&W speakers and about a month or so later I met Mark when I purchased his amplifiers from him. Mark led me to the Headphone Tour, the Head-Fi site, a Dark Angel and Rick and Brett at Virtual Dynamics. The rest, as they say, is history.

 Your turn. 

 By the way Dark Angel it's too bad you are a man because you picture is so cute.



 Best
 Brian


----------



## markl

"By the way Dark Angel it's too bad you are a man because you picture is so cute. "

 He he he he he he he! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "about a month or so later I met Mark when I purchased his amplifiers from him. Mark led me to the Headphone Tour, the Head-Fi site, a Dark Angel and Rick and Brett at Virtual Dynamics. The rest, as they say, is history. "

 And he's still speaking to me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All I can say is I'm very jealous of those Nite ICs. I have no doubt they are as close to a state of the art IC as exists on planet Earth!

 markl


----------



## pigmode

That's some serious equipment you got there bkelly.


----------



## bkelly

pigmode,

 Good to hear from you!


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 The damage was significant but not as high as you figured. One of the interconnects is 1/2 meter and Rick gave me a great deal on all three or truthfully I would have had to pass. The Signature was out of my price range and it took me a week or two to work up enough nerve to attempt to order them. I waited until late in the afternoon on the last day of the sale to even call and, even then, I was still planning to settle for the Refernce Series if the Signature got too high.

 Rick and Brett's confidence in the Nite Series is what finally won me over.

 Another thing that sold me is that my confidence in their product is high enough at this point that I feel confident that they are not going to be surpased or even caught by anyone else for quite a ways into the future so my purchase is not going to go out of style or favor in a year or two. Fact is, I might be where I want to be for a long time with the Nite Series. 

 Talk soon.



 Brian


----------



## markl

Aaaaaaaaargh!!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 bkelly, you make me so very GREEN with ENVY, it's not even funny!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Brett and Rick might just take pity on me,,,,,. Until then I'm jealous, green with ENVY... GRRRRRRRRRRRRR.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 markl


----------



## squirt

i'm also getting envious of everyones new toys...Looks like Virtual Dynamics is really making a statement here...i sure would like to hear some reviews on the Nite series cords even though they're well beyond my price limit (not that that has stopped me before)...

 Buta, whats up? you already sold your VD power 3s...were they that bad?


----------



## pigmode

Squirt, Those Power 3s were snapped up pretty quick. Although I did not give them the full shakedown, I thought they were a worthy improvement to my system. The problem for me was that those PCs are physically too inflexible.


----------



## bkelly

John Acton,

 Where you at? We should be getting an updated review from you. You must be enjoying your VD power cables so much you forgot to write. Hope to hear from you soon.


----------



## DarkAngel

BK
 Should get my two P2s Monday.Tuesday and I will be very interested to see how they compare to the Zu Mother cords I am using on my two amps now. I was very impressed with these till I got the VD References, and they are pretty reasonable price wise
 since they can be had at weekly auctions at Audiogon for $250-300 for 2 meter cord. Here is what they look like:

Zu Mother 

 Also because they are small diameter and flexible can use places VD phsyically won't work/fit. They look pretty cool too.


----------



## pigmode

Two pairs of Zu Varial ICs that should be arriving next week, so I am also interested in the Mother PCs. Good flexibility is a must.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*Two pairs of Zu Varial ICs that should be arriving next week, so I am also interested in the Mother PCs. Good flexibility is a must. * 
 

I would like to try those also, but I have so many ICs now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Uses the same design tech as Mother AC cord, B3 family, also new B3 speaker cable just came out called Ibis.

 Start a new thread when you get those Varials so we can discuss them.

 BTW I think Zu will offer members of Harmonic Discord site 25% discount on cables for month of July. I also like the fact that these guys worked on Kimber Select series cables which are very good but too expensive for me.


----------



## JohnActon

Hi Brian,

 I've been around, it's just that I still have not received my last Reference AC Cord (should be here tomorrow or Tuesday). I wanted to wait until I had incorporated the last cord into my system before commenting additionally. 

 Also, I've been adding new equipment to my system (speakers, amp), and I've been playing around with the differences I hear with the different power cords on the new additions. As if that weren't enough, I'm waiting on still some other stuff to come in, and the new stuff has to burn in, etc.

 Nevertheless, as soon as I'm able, I will post some additional impressions of the Reference AC cords.

 Congrats on the Nite IC's and powercord!!! Like Mark, I think I'm a little jealous; that Nite stuff looks like it will sound amazing. And like DarkAngel, I'm intrigued by the silver as opposed to copper construction. Please let us know how they fare!

 Like yourself, I'm starting to wonder if the amount of money I'm allocating to cables (a VERY sizable percentage of my system's total cost) is out of proportion. Would it have been better to have spent more money on the components, themselves? Boy, that's a tough one. But, I will say that I hear HUGE differences between various interconnects, speaker cables and power cords, and I have come to believe strongly that these things are components in their own rights and can make or break a system just as easily as any other "link" in the chain. Also, if you buy top-notch stuff at the outset, then you don't feel as much necessity to upgrade when you change other elements of your system; certainly, my Kimber Select cabling and now my VD Reference power cords ain't going nowhere, no matter what upgrades to my system I make in the forseeable future. At least, I hope not!


----------



## DarkAngel

Not to stir things up here any more, and Mark and I have both mentioned this, but my upgrading of all my AC cords to VD and Zu
 has produced a bigger improvement in sound quality than any equipment change I have ever made, I am really impressed.

 Previously the biggest jump in sound quality was the addition of my Bel Canto Dac 1.1, made every CD sound better and more realistic even previously poor sounding ones, restored my faith in CDs but not erased the memories of my Linn LP12

 Tonight I was listening to some CDs I haven't heard in a couple months (before current round of AC cord upgrades) and I was just amazed at the uncovering of new details and expansion of 3D soundstage has me doing double takes on a regular basis........I'm almost afraid to touch my system it sounds so good (for now anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )

*Balanced System* 
 I must keep coming back to this important point which has been mentioned many times here. Don't over spend on cables without having equal level of equipment or your money will not get optimum results. Your upgraded cables are just allowing your existing gear to pass more information, so make sure your gear is up to the task of providing a good signal.

 As a matter of fact my next purchase will be new audiophile CDP or Bel Canto Dac 2 since I think my cables are currently matched to my gear and money is better spent to improve music signal with new gear vs upgrading cables anymore.


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel, John Acton,

 I just wrote both of you a lengthy response to your latest comments but before I could post it my computer locked-up and I lost it.

 Anyhow, I didn't know the Nite Series was silver or that silver was even a component part. As I said yesterday when I called Rick and Brett I wasn't even remotely considering the Nite stuff I was only hoping I could afford the Signature pieces in the length I wanted. But, after talking with Rick and Brett for almost two hours I just did it. Rick's passion for this stuff is very inspiring abd truthgfully I think he's onto somerthing. If his claims for the Nite stuff is even half true I am set for life as far as cabling goes. I certainly hope so. 

 I can't wait to hear how you guys rate your latest cable purchases.

 Also, thanks for the nice comments from all of you but there is no need to feel envious of me becasue the tab for this stuff is going to be very sobering.



 Best
 Brian


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 I read your comments about overspending on cables without having comparable equipment to use it with. I believe that too. However, Rick says this is less important with the Nite Series than with the other cables. I hope he's right because what I really would like to hear is the same results I got with the other cables only more of it. I shouldn't speak for Rick but what he's has told me is that the Nite stuff will provide that and more. Much more, even on my current equipment. He's been exactly right so far so I felt I had to try it.

 I like my system now. It is not the best but the list on the pre-amp and amp would be about $3,800.00 and the speakers are $2,200.00 so while I'm only in the mid-fi range, especially when you consider the pre and power are 5 channel home theater gear I am 
 hoping that the Nite stuff will show something like its real potential even at my current level.

 So far one of the things I have liked most about the Virtual Dynamics stuff is that it makes such a noticeable improvement in the "quality" of reproduction that you can't help but feel like your system sounds like the higher priced stuff.

 Talk soon.



 Best
 Brian


----------



## DarkAngel

Hey my P2's just arrived, these have the newest flexi-twist feature at the female end of cable. What VD did was last 5-6 inches of cord at female end has reduced diameter and is very bendable so a tight radius bend is available, also retains shape you bend it to.

 This will be very helpful behind equipment racks requiring much less space to acheive 90 degree bend and removing stress from IEC connector. 

 Am breaking in these cables for next few days, then will compare to my Zu Mothers and see how they fare.


----------



## JohnActon

I also just received my Reference AC cord from Virtual Dynamics. For some reason, I found it considerably less difficult to get the thing installed and plugged in (although it sure doesn't look very nice). I think I'm learning how to deal with these things.

 At any rate, I'm gonna let it cook for a couple of days. I'll let everyone know what I think.


----------



## DarkAngel

*Update* 
 My P2's are now broken in and playing in my main system powering my two Musical Fidelity amps. Will post pics later today
 that flexi-twist female connector is great idea and really works as you will see from photos.

 Will post my impressions over next couple days, I fear one more call to Canada will take place soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 What is everyone else doing, updates and analysis please.......
 inquiring minds want to know.


----------



## DarkAngel

Check out the P2's with flexi-twist female connector:

Virtual Dynamic P2


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel.

 Cool!




 Brian


----------



## squirt

Very cool indeed...will the other VD power cords also use the flexi feature eventually?


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by squirt _
*Very cool indeed...will the other VD power cords also use the flexi feature eventually? * 
 

I believe it is available as an option for P2, P3 but VD should just make it standard feature, since it make these cords much easier to handle behind audio racks.

 The more expensive Audition, Reference, Signature and Nite have different cable design and don't have/need flexi-twist feature.


----------



## DarkAngel

*Call to Canada Today* 
 One more VD Reference on the way to complete my set of AC cords for system. Ric mentioned that they have cable cooker now to break-in cables before shipping.

*BK* 
 Ric is offering very good price on Nite cords to spread the word, but even the "very" good price is too much for me. If my system only used 3 cords then maybe, Ric said I would really like them more vs References. What is your ETA for Nite cords?

*P2 vs Zu Mother* 
 In my system a slight edge goes to P2 for my two Musical Fidelity amps. Slightly better 3D soundstage and deeper bass, although Mother has slightly more extended and detailed treble, and is physically much easier to handle. System matching is key and some may prefer Mother in their system. I will still keep 1 or 2 Mothers around and may use one somewhere in my system since other than slight lack of deep bass they are very good performers.

 What is everyone up to, report in..........


----------



## squirt

I have two Power 3 cryos on order...Dark, did Ric mention if the cable burner will be used for all new cables they make or will it be an extra cost option for thoughs who want it?


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by squirt _
*I have two Power 3 cryos on order...Dark, did Ric mention if the cable burner will be used for all new cables they make or will it be an extra cost option for thoughs who want it? * 
 

Not sure about P3's since they are very inexpensive, but only way to know is ask when ordering. My more expensive Reference
 cord was already "cooked" and ready to ship.

 Did you get the "flexi connect" option for P3?


----------



## squirt

shucks i didn't know the flexi option was available for the P3...Ric didn't mention it or the cable cooker but i ordered last week so maybe it was before these options were available...i'll email them today and ask...


----------



## markl

Well, I wish i could say I had some Nite Series ICs on the way, but I just can't swing them at the moment. I need to chill on my audio purchases for a while. Besides, I'm still completely delighted with my Sig Cryo power cords and Reference Cryo ICs, and I think they're better matched with my current system anyway.

 I am, however, trying to convince kelly to get a Nite Series power cord for his Sony XA777ES SACDP that he's having totally tricked out by Modwright. Now *that's* a component worthy of the Nite Series!

 markl


----------



## JohnActon

What's this? VD now cooks their cables prior to sending them out? Darnit! I still feel my Reference AC cords have some burning in to do (Brett recommended 250 hours). 

 Nevertheless, I'm very happy with the References. This deal on the Nite stuff sounds very intriguing, but I frankly can't afford it right now. Still, if anyone else here wants to take one for the team and make the rest of us jealous, I say have at it.

 Anyone? Kelly, perhaps???


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 I know the Nite Power is supposed to ship on the 12th. That's all I know. I need to call Rick and find out about the interconnects.

 Also, I am going to be out of town the following week and, so, just to see that the Nite stuff gets a fair evaluation I was going to have the Nite Power and the 1 meter inteconnect sent to Mark to evalute. I am not opposed to doing the same thing with you if you would like. All of us have different equipment and different criteria so I think this would be a great test. What do you think? Mark doesn't know a thing about this. I was going to surprise him and just have them shipped to him and let him know they were on the way. We will see how much he is checking in to this website.

 Anyhow, I am excited about the Nite stuff not just for me but in general. If Rick and Brett are to be believed (and I think they are) this stuff must be incredible!



 My comments about the Reference Power in my system goes like this when compared to the Audition Series in my system: More of the same only better!


----------



## markl

Brian,
 What a dirty dirty trick!!!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have no doubt that once I hear the Nite Series IC or the Power Cord, I'd want them. Sadly, I am not in a position to keep them.

 What a dirty dirty trick!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


----------



## squirt

The information i got from VD concering cable burning and the flexi end for the P2&3 power cables is you can have you cable cooked for $10.00 ea. and the flexi end for the Power 2 and 3 can be added for $25.00 ea.


----------



## JohnActon

Brian,

 I just want to say that I think it's really cool that you'd have your stuff sent to Mark for evaluation while you're out of town. Head-fi has always been more than just "Internet", and this is just another example of that community.

 Please don't EVER send anything like this to me, however. I'd HAVE to buy it - I'm too weak.

 Mark, I feel for you, brother!


----------



## bkelly

John Acton,

 Thanks for your kind remarks. I always look forward to reading your comments.

 You are right about Head-Fi, there is definitely something special about this website. Much more of a community feeling than any other site that I am aware of.

 I was considering making the entire round and sending them to you also but that would delay my getting them a little too long. Still, I am unable to be mean about my good fortune and if you yell and scream enough (crying definitely helps) I would consider it. 



 Best
 Brian


----------



## DarkAngel

*BK* 
 You are being too generous, you should put the Nites immediately into your own system and forget about Mark, DA, JA etc since your impressions are the only one that matter for your system.

 Besides I think it really takes @ 2 weeks to really fully know what changes a cable can bring. Takes several days just to settle/break
 in cable and then many days of listening and switching cables back and forth to verify your impressions. It really is a pain to constantly change cables like a reviewer, since our main objective is to listen to music.

 I am very sure for "my system" the VD Reference AC cord is a major step forward, and if you noticed I gradually introduced cables into my system making 3 purchases. I am less impressed with VD ICs and think they are not as impressive vs competition, but still very good.

*Squirt* 
 Thanks for the VD info update.


----------



## JohnActon

Okay, while my latest VD Reference cord (running into the Ultimate Outlet) is perhaps still not fully burnt-in, I'm pretty confident that it sounds close to what it's supposed to.

 I've been switching out the VD cords for the PS Audio Mini-Labs cords, and the VD cords are pretty amazing in comparison. The main reason why I'm posting is that I have to share my experience from last night. I was listening to Bill Frisell's excellently recorded "Blue Dream" CD, and at moderate volume, the boys seemed like they were right in my room. The soundstaging ability of these VD cords is outstanding. The drums were huge and behind the guitars and sax, the guitars floated between my speakers, and when they moved to the far left or right of the soundstage, they appeared to be emanating from behind and slightly beyond the speakers. The sax was dead center, and depending on the track appeared to be either behind the guitars or slightly in front of my speakers. My room is currently not very acoustically friendly; I didn't think it possible for me to realize this kind of holographic imaging. Taking out the VD cords removed a lot of this imaging magic; the performance sounded less live, more "reproduced". And, at least in comparison to the PS Audio cables, I don't feel the VD cords limit the air or extension in the treble at all. Of course, these cables are all copper; I haven't heard any silver power cords. 

 Overall, I'm super pleased. I just need to make sure I stay away from that Nite stuff.


----------



## kelly

Quote:


 _Originally posted by JohnActon _
*What's this? VD now cooks their cables prior to sending them out? Darnit! I still feel my Reference AC cords have some burning in to do (Brett recommended 250 hours). 

 Nevertheless, I'm very happy with the References. This deal on the Nite stuff sounds very intriguing, but I frankly can't afford it right now. Still, if anyone else here wants to take one for the team and make the rest of us jealous, I say have at it.

 Anyone? Kelly, perhaps??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

Argh. I'm tapped. I was previously in contact with Rick about auditioning some cables and trying to do some reviews but I'm deathly afraid that I'll want to purchase and won't be able to just yet.

 First I have the Modwright stuff I have to do and then I have something else I have to take care of. And THEN, I could START working toward that but man... even at a discount, $1400 cables? And I need 1 IC and 2 power cables? And that's just for the headphone rig. Imagine when I actually manage to afford a speaker rig.

 I think John should audition them. He's the one with the fancy CD player and electrostatics. Besides, he's the only one of us with cables decent enough to be compared to the high end VDs.


----------



## markl

kelly,
 OK so maybe Nite Series is too much too soon. I'd say get an Audition/Power1 to start and see how that works out for you.

 I have the Sig Cryo on my SCD-333ES with Modwright mods. The Sig is just one step below the Nite. I've also got a Sig cryo on my Melos Maestro and between the two of them, that's how I got these great, amazing results.

 The longer you wait, the higher the price you'll pay, most likely. Speaking of which, anyone know if the sale is really over now?

 markl


----------



## kelly

Mark
 Unless I catch a leprechan there just isn't any money to be had right now.

 I'll email Rick regardless and tell him about my intentions to move forward with the player mods first. If an audition is still available when I get it back I can do that, but I'll not be able to buy until at least another month or two after that.

 I originally wanted VD to participate in a cable face-off but to tell the truth, I'm pretty convinced the VD outclasses the other stuff I'd have to compare to (or at least any of the VDs I'd be interested in). The only real comparrison I could make here would be to compare to dparrish's Kimber Select 1011 which is the best interconnects I've heard so far.


----------



## JohnActon

Aw no you don't! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If I auditioned the Nite stuff and it was better, I'd have to figure out a way to buy them. Or send them back and subsequently know that I had better sound at one point but don't any longer. That way lies madness. 

 And honestly, I don't have much experience with power cords; aside from the PS Audio stuff, this is my first foray into the AC cord jungle. As for the interconnects, yes I auditioned some really nice cables via the Cable Company (Siltech, AudioQuest, Purist Audio, Synergistic) before finally settling on the Kimber Select. But that was almost two years ago; aside from the only really good cable I have (the Kimber), I have nothing against which to compare the VD interconnects except for the acoustic memories of these other cables (in a completely different system, I might add).

 No, I feel the most qualified person to audition the VD power cords, interconnects and/or speaker cables is Dark Angel. Just judging from some of his posts in this thread, it's obvious that he's had a lot of exposure to different cables, and I think he's long recognized the importance of all this stuff. I'm still very much a newbie in comparison.


----------



## markl

"No, I feel the most qualified person to audition the VD power cords, interconnects and/or speaker cables is Dark Angel."

 Hurrumph! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Given that the only power cords I've tried are VD, I've tried PLENTY of other ICs:
 My experience isn't exhaustive, but in terms of ICs, I have, though, heard the following (and you'll recall I *only* have the VD Reference Cryo ICs), in order from least to most favorite:

 1. Monster 550i ($50)
 2. MIT T4 ($60)
 3. Monster Z-Series ($120)
 4. MIT Terminator 2 ($120)
 5. Music Metre- Signature ($240)
 6. Stealth Cables FLR with copper shielding ($240)
 7. Audio Magic Spellcaster ($400)
 8. VD Signature Cryo ($600 list)

 IMO, the VD Signature is in a whole different class from the rest, but granted it's got a more expensive price tag.

 markl


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 You are being overly generous yourself. My idea here is to get possibly (very possibly) the worlds finest power cables and interconnects reviewed by as many knowledgeable people as I can (there is a limit). This is how this whole thread started. All of us started with Power One's and Two's and have worked our way up detailing every step of the way on this website. Now, with my purchase of the Nite Series cables and interconnercts we have a chance, as a group, to review the best that Virtual Dynamicd has to offer. I admit it is a little silly on my part to send $2,000.00 worth of cables to people I met on a website but I have thought it over and I feel pretty cool about it. 

 Besides that, you have some nice gear and a lot of experience with power cables and interconnects and, so, your opinion means something here.

 No need to decide now. We can get to this when Mark has finished evaluating them.


 Peace
 Brian


----------



## JohnActon

Ooops! Sorry, Mark - I stand corrected. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You HAVE played with a number of IC's. What did you think of the Audio Magic Spellcaster? I've heard good things about their cables, but have never heard them myself. Does the VD Reference IC walk all over it? 

 Brian, again I just want to say that your generosity is amazing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 If I owned cables like those, I'd have a hard time letting them go, as much as I would very much like to hear everyone else's opinions.


----------



## markl

JA,
 No sweat! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The AudioMagic Spellcaster was by far the best IC I'd heard, but still I'd never had that "Oh, WOW..." expereience with an IC until the VD Reference Cryo. Yup-- it's a good deal ahead of the AudioMagic cable.

 bkelly and I have done a bit of business together so there's more than the average amount of trust there. Nevertheless, I am trying to convince him to have the Nite Series sent straight to him... He seems to want me to give you all my opinion first though...

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

I've done something crazy!

 Check out the latest pair of ICs I ordered for 30 day trail:
Mapleshade Ribbon ICs 

 I got the Excalibur model, not too expensive at $240 but the design is about as radical as it gets. I read one review where author preferred these over AZ silver reference.......we will see,
 my fear is they may be thin/bright, one way to find out.


----------



## acidtripwow

DarkAngel, do you have a pair of AZSR for comparison? Those are some very different looking cables that seem that they would break very easily. You should also try getting a top of the line Grado like the RS1 or maybe an HP1000. That may make more of a difference then expensive cables. Just a thought.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by acidtripwow _
*DarkAngel, do you have a pair of AZSR for comparison? Those are some very different looking cables that seem that they would break very easily. You should also try getting a top of the line Grado like the RS1 or maybe an HP1000. That may make more of a difference then expensive cables. Just a thought. * 
 

Here is review I referred to, author previously used AZ silver reference ICs:
Clearview Excalibur Ribbons 
 I am pretty sure that if I used more than 1 of these ICs it would be too much for my system.

 This is not for headphone use, but main system where I am currently using HT ProSilway II and HG Silver Lace ICs, I have not tried AZ Silver References.


----------



## acidtripwow

Quote:


 This is not for headphone use, but main system where I am currently using HT ProSilway II and HG Silver Lace ICs, I have not tried AZ Silver References. 
 

*TRAITOR!!* Just kidding man.


----------



## bkelly

Mark, DarK Angel, John Acton,

 I talked with Rick and he said rather than I send my own cables around he would be glad to send any or all of you a free "trial" of the new Nite Series for you to evaluate. If you like them work out a deal with him or send them back. 

 Mark, because he is the one who got all this going already knows of this and has already been offered the same deal so I just include him here as a member of the group.
 So, I appreciate everyone being concerned about evaluating my own personal cables but now there is no need to worry about that. I'd also urge you to get something going with this now because I am sure Rick would give you a deal on these if even if the "sale" period has ended. It's becaue of their expense and the current unique opportunity to buy them at reasonable prices that I am glad I went ahead and purchased them. I'd hate to buy them next year. 

 I should say that to all of you I appreciate all the kind remarks. 





 Best
 Brian


----------



## kelly

Hear that ghostly female voice whispering on the wind, John?
 "Orrrrderrrr the Nite...." she cries.


----------



## Vertigo-1

DarkAngel...if you end up not liking those Excaliburs, I'd gladly take them off your hands in a heartbeat. I really want to know how those Mapleshade cables do!


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Vertigo-1 _
*DarkAngel...if you end up not liking those Excaliburs, I'd gladly take them off your hands in a heartbeat. I really want to know how those Mapleshade cables do! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

If they don't work out I will return under 30 day trail period, I talked to them in person and they said returns are usually processed in @ 1 week from receipt.

 It takes almost two weeks to get a set because there is no inventory, and they are made as orders come in. Because of recent "buzz" they have many orders.


----------



## JohnActon

Wow, Brian - that's very cool that Rick would let us audition (no pun intended) the VD Nite stuff. Thanks for talking to him! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yes, Kelly - I _more_ than hear her calling. When I got up this morning, she was lying in bed next to me. When I got out of the shower, there she was holding a towel for me. And I'm not sure, but I think she changed the oil in my car while I was at work. She's very tempting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm going to hold out for the time being, though; I just got the References, and I want to take some time to really get to know them. Plus, even though we're not in an exclusive relationship yet, I'm afraid that if I started seeing the Nite cords, the References might get jealous. 

 DA - I'm with Vertigo; please let us know what you think of the Mapleshade interconnects!


----------



## eric343

Just out of curiosity- HOW much are some of these cables costing, that you folks are talking about swapping and buying as if they were, say, headphones?


----------



## DarkAngel

*Hirsch* 
 Will be making the call to Canada soon............with the money from his Melos sale he can get a couple Reference AC cords now.


----------



## bkelly

Originally I only had the VD stuff connected to my power amp and pre-amp and it was from that basic setup all my original comments were made about the effectiveness of the VD cables in my system. In anticipation of getting the Nite Series stuff and after some encouragement from Rick and Mark I made an adapter to hook the standard cord on my CD player to the Reference VD cable. The improvement was very noticeable and as I have said in past it is the same improvements I have experienced with all of the VD cables, only more of it. If I could only use one word to describe it it would be "quality". The VD stuff makes your equipment sould like you bought the more expensive stuff.

 Also, this time I measured (by the feel of it only) the heat my CD player was putting out and I can now say for certain that with the VD cables installed it change from running hot enough to worry about to only slightly warm. I think that alone is incredible and is proof that the cables are doing something significant, at least technically.

 Dark Angel,

 Those are some wild cables.

 Talk soon.





 Best
 Brian


----------



## DarkAngel

*BK or Mark, report in!* 
 Have the Nite cables arrived? Whats going on?

 I should get delivery of my final Reference AC cord today or Monday, this will connect to Bel Canto Dac 1.1 which is only 3.6x3.6x9, will have to take picture because it will really look strange with giant AC cord attached 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*BK* 
 To follow up on your previous post, by far the most dramatic improvement in my system was produced by CDP receiving VD
 Reference cord, I would always put my best cord there. I also had to retire my bearing isolation units (Daruma, Aurious) after hearing the huge Mapleshade brass cones called "big foots" under CDP, best cones I have ever heard! They also come with triple point version for even better performance.


----------



## markl

DA,
 I've had to turn down bkelly's generous offer on the Nite Series for now. I'm not in position to purchase, and I know that once I'd heard them, I'd want them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 I'd like to hear from Mark, too. I haven't emailed him in the last few days so I don't know what he's up to. 

 It took me awhile to get it together to make an adapter to hook up the CDP since it does not have a removable cord but when I finally did it was as significant. Everything locked in.

 You are right and Rick agrees with you also that the best use of the VD power cords is at the source or as close to the source as possible. 

 I'm surprised to hear you have retired the bearing isolators in your system. I know you were a big believer in them. I alsmost bought therm myelf recently. On your recomendation I am going to look into the Mapleshades. I have tried these sort of things in the past (six or seven years ago) and have not been totally convinced. They change the sound alright but I am not always sure its an improvement.

 I definitely do not like spikes on speakers. My speaker are mounted on sand filled boxes on top of absorbothane feet.

 My Nite stuff ships today butr I will be out of town from Sunday thru Thursday so it will be awhile before I know much about them. Rick say the leap in sound quality is going to be huge even when compared to other VD products. I almost can't imagine that. 
 Take care.



 Best
 Brian


----------



## DarkAngel

Check out this recent review at stereotimes.com of Mapleshade support system:

Mapleshade Cones 

 I don't have room in my Target rack for the 2" solid maple shelves,
 (except on very top shelf of rack) but I do use the heavy foot brass cones (2" x 2") and these sound great under CDP. Price is very reasonable (3 for $65) and smaller sure foot (1.5" x 1.5") cones are also great. I never like other cones I've tried before, but these brass beauties are the best sounding I have heard. Also use the brass heavy hats on top of gear.

 Next time you talk to VD boys, ask about brass under audio gear,
 they will wax poetic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you are not going to upgrade CDP soon, you may want to consult local audio repair shop about removing captive AC cord and installing IEC connector on CDP so you can connect VD cords (or any cord) direct to CDP.


----------



## wacomme

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _

 If you are not going to upgrade CDP soon, you may want to consult local audio repair shop about removing captive AC cord and installing IEC connector on CDP so you can connect VD cords (or any cord) direct to CDP. [/B] 
 

I have a VD cable that I'd like to connect to my Sony SCD-CE775 that has a captive AC cord. What's involved in removing this cord and installing an IEC connector? Can any audio repair shop do it? Cost? 

 Michael


----------



## bkelly

As far as changing the connector on a CDP that does not have an IEC connector goes I have this to offer: Yesterday I went to the coolest elecronics store in Nashville and asked what was involved in adding an IEC connector to a CD player that was built with a standard connector and they said that to do it you would have to hand grind the accesss port (hole) that the connector fit into the back of the CD player because as far as they knew there was no punch tool you could use to do it.

 If that is true then you are left with some version of what I did and that was make an adapter by connecting the male IEC fitting to a short cable and putting the female standard 110 fitting on the other . You could also cut your power cord off near the player and instal the IEC connector directly to that cord. You'll need to tape or wire tie the VD cable to the fitting becasue it is too heavy to just hang there.

 If there is a better or easier way to do this I don't know of it yet but I am sure with all the DIY guys around the Head-Fi site someone will have some more ideas.

 Dark Angel,

 How much better are the Mapleshades cones than the bearing isolators you had. I'm also glad that you said you hadn't liked other cones you've tried because that has been my experience. I also need to get a rack. Any recomendations.




 Best
 Brian


----------



## eric343

Go to RadioShack and buy a nibbling tool. IMHO it's one of the handiest tools I've ever used for making holes in things. 

 Nothing else would have let me make the 2.25cm diameter hole needed to mount a locking Neutrik jack in 2.5mm thick die-cast aluminum in 20 minutes...


----------



## bkelly

Eric,

 I knew someone from Head-Fi would have a usefull suggestion. 

 About the nibbling tool. I've seen powered ones but not the Radio Shack unit. How does it work and can you cut the small corners used on the IEC connector? Does it generally do a neat job? Is it easy to use?




 Best
 Brian


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by bkelly _
*How much better are the Mapleshades cones than the bearing isolators you had. I'm also glad that you said you hadn't liked other cones you've tried because that has been my experience. I also need to get a rack. Any recomendations.* 
 

Bearings sound very good but are very hard to use with big stiff cords, the Mapleshade heavy foot cones are the only cones I have ever heard that come near the sound improvement offered by bearings, plus they are much easier to use vs bearings (also much cheaper)

 I use a Target rack, very popular British brand. I had one 15 yrs ago when I had my Linn LP12 also. They work well, look good and are relatively cheap. Come in different sizes, I originally got mine from Audio Advisor but they no longer sell Target racks. AA still has good selection of other racks worth checking out.

Audio Advisor Audio Racks


----------



## markl

As usual, you guys are killing me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 OK, OK, I'll bite... Can you provide a link to these Mapleshade thingys? What do they cost? I currently have Vibrapods under my digital gear (SACDP, and DVD-A player). I confess, I am not convinced they do anything as far as improving sound goes. They are a bitch to install (trying to fit them all evenly under the feet of the player takes FOREVER), and due to the difficulty of removing them and re-inserting them A/B tests are impossible.

 Anyway, for future reference (can't purchase now), any links or additional comments you can provide are appreciated.

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*Can you provide a link to these Mapleshade thingys? What do they cost? I currently have Vibrapods under my digital gear (SACDP, and DVD-A player). I confess, I am not convinced they do anything as far as improving sound goes. They are a bitch to install (trying to fit them all evenly under the feet of the player takes FOREVER), and due to the difficulty of removing them and re-inserting them A/B tests are impossible.* 
 

Mapleshade Cones 

 The "Heavyfoot" cones are the ones I have, also the "Surefoot" cones work almost as well and are cheaper. Isolation of audio gear makes very noticeable difference in sound, especially with CDP. These need to be used in conjunction with a good audio rack.

 I have some Vibrapods in my tweak drawer, but haven't used them in quite a long time.


----------



## markl

Doh!!!!!

 Damn, those things are NOT cheap. I know I was skeptical of friggin' power cords and yet I ended up spending oodles on a tweak I previously thought was totally INSANE, but at the current moment, I am not in a position to accept that these expensive brass cone feet can make a significant difference (although, I concede they surely might). I'll have to live with my Vibrapods.

 DA, you ever try Vibrapods and if so, how'd they compare with the Mapleshade cones?

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*Doh!!!!!
 Damn, those things are NOT cheap. I know I was skeptical of friggin' power cords and yet I ended up spending oodles on a tweak I previously thought was totally INSANE, but at the current moment, I am not in a position to accept that these expensive brass cone feet can make a significant difference (although, I concede they surely might). I'll have to live with my Vibrapods.

 DA, you ever try Vibrapods and if so, how'd they compare with the Mapleshade cones?

* 
 

Brass cones are cheap:
 Heavy foot - $65 set of three
 Sure foot - $38 set of three

 I have many Vibrapods of all sizes, in my system they don't come close to revealing the sound that bearings or Mapleshade brass cones do. That's why they are collecting dust in my tweak drawer.
 Really Vibrapods soften the sound and make it warmer/richer by emphasizing bass. May be useful for systems that sound bright, but better to get a good upsampling Dac/CDP and proper power conditioning.


----------



## markl

*sigh* I was afraid you'd say that! Why do they sell them in sets of 3? You need 4 to go under each foot of your digital source. How many do you have under each component?

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Cones are always used in sets of three, to minimize points of contact. Most people point all three down to shelf, I like the two down one up appraoch as you can see in this picture of my Bel Canto Dac 1.1

Sure Foot Brass Cones 

 Also they are never placed under feet, but directly contact component body.


----------



## markl

Wow!!!! And thanks! 

 Did you take that picture and post it just to answer my question? You rule, DA!! Thanks a million. Damn, I'm now very intrigued by these Mapleshade cones! Do you think a set of three would work on a 20lb or so SACDP? Rock on, DA!!

 markl


----------



## eric343

*nice* photo! With a Nikon digital camera, too...


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*Damn, I'm now very intrigued by these Mapleshade cones! Do you think a set of three would work on a 20lb or so SACDP? * 
 

Of course, they produce biggest improvement under full size CDP.
 Because it is so small the BC Dac gets nowhere near the same benefit from brass cones that my full size CDP does. The VD guys like brass Audio Points brand brass cones, but they have never tried Mapleshade.

 As I said previously bearings devices work very well but are very hard to use with large stiff cords like VD, since they hinder free movement of component placed on bearings. 

*Back to VD AC cords now* 
 My final Reference AC cord has arrived, already cooked and ready to go. I will rearrange cables and mount on Bel Canto today.


----------



## DarkAngel

*Check This Out* 
 With some carefull cable routing I was able to connect VD Reference cord to tiny Bel Canto Dac 1.1:
Reference & Bel Canto 

 Also JA recognizes these beauties:
VD Reference AC Cord

 Finally, things are getting a bit crowded around Monster HTS2000:
Monster 2000


----------



## eric343

Jeez, man, those cables look like firehoses 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 You could probably use them to tow oil derricks...


----------



## geom_tol

Quote:


 _Originally posted by bkelly _
* I talked (email actually) with Brett at VD and he said that as far as breaking in goes that since the cables provide more current to your equipment you can expect those other components to break in again too. What do you think about that?
* 
 

 Post was on 6/4/2002

 The cable provides more current? Cool.

 I'm sure he didn't say that actually. It's a ridiculous statement.
 I just had to comment on that, since no one else did. 

 I'm not saying the cables don't make a difference, I think they can, by filtering and shielding.


----------



## bkelly

Dear geom-tol,

 Well Brett is not the technical one around Virtiual Dynamics but, skipping the particulars, becaue I think I know where you are going with this, can you explain why components run cooler with the VD cables installed? I am not the only one who has noticed this.

 I'd be careful about what you call ridiculous when it comes to power cables since it was not that long ago that people (including the so called experts) claimed that they could not affect the sound.

 To Mark, Dark Angel, John Acton and the rest, 

 I'm out of here until Thursday. When I get back it's onto the Nite Series stuff.



 Best
 Brian


----------



## eric343

I'm guessing the temperature drop is because the cables are shielded better than regular cables. Any decent AC-powered component will have some sort of power regulators, to give the internal bits nice clean power. Regular unshielded cables must pick up all sorts of nasty interference, and so the power supply regulation stages have to work harder. See, whenever there's a voltage spike or change or whatever, the regulating transistors have to either absorb more voltage or let more voltage through, to keep the voltage that Mr. High-End Opamp sees nice and stable. By shielding the cables better, the interference (which would cause small, but very frequent changes in voltage) is partially or entirely eliminated. So the power supply regulators can sit back, relax, put their feet up, and sip a martini.


----------



## geom_tol

Quote:


 _Originally posted by bkelly _
*Dear geom-tol,

 Well Brett is not the technical one around Virtiual Dynamics but, skipping the particulars, becaue I think I know where you are going with this, can you explain why components run cooler with the VD cables installed? I am not the only one who has noticed this.
* 
 

Intuitively more current would create more heat.

 eric343's explanation makes sense. 
 Also the filtering abilities of these cables would add to his theory.


----------



## bkelly

Eric,

 You done good! Now, please explain the difference between voltage and current, especially as it applies to these cables. 

 I should comment that the heat reduction using the VD cables is not slight. My CD player went from being nearly hot to only slightly warm. On my power amp there was a less dramatic drop in temperature but it wasn't that hot to begin with.

 I'm late for Atlanta now so I will read your reply when I get back.



 Thanks
 Brian


----------



## JohnActon

You know, I have not noticed any difference in the operating temperature of any component on which I've installed my Reference AC cords. Nor can I verify that they actually get any more "current" than they were previously. Frankly, I don't really care. What I DO know is that my stuff has never sounded better. 

 They are very good cables, and though I have little previous experience with AC cords, I'm certainly convinced that these things do make a real difference.

 Brian, I can't wait to hear how your Nite stuff sounds once you get back home this week. Have a safe trip! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My next project is to perhaps look into those big ass Mapleshade cones for use under my amp to make inserting speaker cables easier. I'm currently using some Michell cones I ordered from Audio Advisor, but those Mapleshade cones look like they really mean business.


----------



## eric343

Voltage and current? Hmm...

 Voltage is "pressure". For example, if you take a 50,000V DC current, it will jump (arc) across a gap of a certain distance regardless of how many amps are being supplied. (that's why Tesla coils are so cool). For power supply purposes, voltage is always the same, no matter the load.

 Current is "hose diameter". You can have lots of voltage (pressure), however you still can't use it to drive your computer, because your computer needs lots of electricity per second - it needs a relatively fat pipe so enough electricity can reach it. Current (how much electricty is flowing, not how hard it's pushing) varies with the load; your CD player will require more current (draw more amps) when it's playing than when it's in standby. Most power supplies will only supply a certain amount of current (amps), no matter what the load is. For example, most wall sockets have 10-20 amp fuses, which means that if the sum current draw of everything you plug in to them exceeds the amp rating of the fuse, the fuse says to itself, "oh oh! Someone's shorted out the powerline (fuses are designed to protect against shorts; a shorted power line will attempt to draw an infinite amount of current)" and break the circuit, preventing electricity from flowing until you come over and reset the fuse (after checking where the short was, of course!).

 Now, since I just went and measured the resistance of a regular computer IEC cord using my digital multimeter, and got a resistance of ~.1ohms, I somehow doubt that the the resistance of power cords affects the sound of the components (unless your amplifier draws more than 1200 amps!)


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by JohnActon _
*My next project is to perhaps look into those big ass Mapleshade cones for use under my amp to make inserting speaker cables easier. I'm currently using some Michell cones I ordered from Audio Advisor, but those Mapleshade cones look like they really mean business. * 
 

JA, don't want to sound like Mapleshade salesman, but if you get 3 of the heavy foot cones for $65 and put those under your Cary CDP you will be very impressed........I've tried 3 other highly rated brands of different shapes and materials.

 Mapleshade does have 30 trail period if they don't work out.


----------



## pigmode

DA, stability issues aside, do you prefer the Daruma or the Mapleshades best?


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*DA, stability issues aside, do you prefer the Daruma or the Mapleshades best? * 
 

To me the level of improvement is so equal its too close to call, but the Mapleshade heavy foot is preferred because of ease of use and cheaper cost. They are much better than any other cone I have tried.


----------



## DarkAngel

Long review posted at VD site from audiophile and friend detailing discovery of VD cables, good reading material:

VD Review

 BTW, his speakers cost more than all my gear combined


----------



## shorton

DA,

 As a fellow BC DAC-1 user, how much improvement did upgrading the PC make?


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by shorton _
*DA, As a fellow BC DAC-1 user, how much improvement did upgrading the PC make? * 
 

The change is very dramatic improvement, if you saw my pictures a few post ago I have VD references on CDP/Dac/Preamp and the soundstage expansion is most impressive. Check some of the previous posts here.......also if you saw my previous picture you can connect big VD cord to tiny BC Dac.


----------



## shorton

I have checked out the previous post...all 17 pages worth. I just didn't read a seperate report on the effect the VD PC had on the BC DAC-1. (all these abbrevations remind me of military jargon!)

 Thanks for the prompt reply,


----------



## DarkAngel

Just to prove I don't work for VD, I sold my VD Signature ICs today
 after long evaluating vs other ICs I have. I find them lacking just a bit in treble extension, therefore I am going with silver ICs in my system. The Sigs had the same remarkable 3D properties as AC cords, but I need that treble extension. Other peoples systems may match better for these, especially if your system is a bit bright.

 Mark won't like me anymore


----------



## daycart1

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*BTW, his speakers cost more than all my gear combined 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

 So does ONE of those Halcro monoblocks! Yow.


----------



## pigmode

I have a Mother PC flying in before the end of the week.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*I have a Mother PC flying in before the end of the week. * 
 

I think you know how they sound from the Varial ICs. Very tight detailed controlled bass, and great treble extension, this is a fast sounding cord. The VDs are somehow better at 3D presentation but Mother still very good here. When I used all Mother cords my system was lean with a bit too much treble emphasis, seems too analytical. Depending on my ICs used I like to sometimes use a Mother cord with my VD References to further tighten bass and extend treble.

 Keep us posted on Varials, and performance vs Apassionata, AZ Matrix


----------



## markl

"Mark won't like me anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 "

 Oh, I think get over it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

*I was just thinking* 
 With the money from my Signature IC sale, I could now proably get a VD Nite AC cord..........


----------



## markl

DA,
 Yes!!!! What better way to get yourself back into my good graces, as I know that's oh so important to you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I may forgive you for selling your VD ICs but bkelly will be beside himself when he comes back! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The only way to make up for it is to buy (or at *least* try) the Nite Series. Surely Rick will give you the free 30-day trial! bkelly has been very hard on me for not going ahead and getting the Nite Series 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 , and he has written me several e-mails detailing how they are vastly different from the other VD cables.

 Go for it! You know you want to... I would if I could but just can't right now. I know I will regret this later when I have to pay full price! Cheers.

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

*BK..........wasssup!* 
 Did those Nites arrive, what do they look like in person?

 I received my money for VD Sig ICs sale today, and I will return another Zu Mother AC cord tomorrow for refund so I do have the money for another call to Canada.............would have to be either Signature or Nite AC cord 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also got another set of Mapleshade Heavy Foot brass cones to replace the Sure Foot cones already under my preamp. I couldn't believe the improvement I heard under CDP when I did this, and again I got a definite improvement. The difference is SF cones are
 1.5" and HF cones are 2" but they are more than 2x the mass and you can actually hear the difference.

 For $65 set of three this is an essential tweak, I am very impressed with the results!


----------



## markl

It's going to be several days before BK is back and several more before he can report results.

 In that time, you can have easily received the free trial versions of the Nite Series cables from VD... Go for it DarkAngel!

 markl


----------



## bkelly

To Dark and Mark,
 Hell, I am back but the Nite stuff is not here. VD sent me the tracking notice and it went out last Saturday but so far nothing on my end.

 Dark Angel,

 I thought you liked the Signature inteconnects? What happened? I hope you do get the Nite Power but I am kind of interested in the Nite Interconnects because they are made of silver. That should be significatly different at least sonically. Anyhow, you have nothing to loose in trying out the Nite Power. Rick is so proud of them that he will bend over backwards to get you to audition them. It was his runaway enthusiasm for them that led me over the edge to begin with.

 Anyhow, good to be back and good to hear from you guys.





 Best
 Brian


----------



## markl

DA,
 See-- I told you BK would be upset....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BK,
 As I have e-mailed you separately. I can't wait to hear the results from your Nite Series.... Please let us all know how the Nite Series turns out for you..... Cheers.

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by bkelly _
*I thought you liked the Signature inteconnects? What happened? I hope you do get the Nite Power but I am kind of interested in the Nite Interconnects because they are made of silver. That should be significatly different at least sonically. Anyhow, you have nothing to loose in trying out the Nite Power. Rick is so proud of them that he will bend over backwards to get you to audition them. It was his runaway enthusiasm for them that led me over the edge to begin with.* 
 

I guess just to be very general I think the VD AC cords are breakthrough products and are clearly better than any other cord I have heard at their price, capable of making dramatic improvements in system sound. I would definitely get an Audition or higher cord since I think the 3 cable designs are easier to use and provide a big increase in sound from P2, P3 etc.

 The VD Sig IC I feel is good but not a knock out vs the competition like the VD AC cords are. For me I can get similar priced ICs from competitors that are as good or better in my system. I am missing a slight amount of treble extension and dynamic energy that I get with a good silver IC, to me the VD Sig sounds a bit relaxed or laid back, slightly warm sounding. I wish
 VD had an affordable silver IC.

 Now of course in another system this may be perfect match, so it all depends on what system it is used in.

 I am seriously thinking of using money from VD Sig sale to get used AZ Silver Reference ICs at Audiogon. First I will listen to Mapleshade Excalibur Ribbbons, author of recent review was previously using AZ Silver Ref and claimed these much cheaper cables beat them out............we will see.


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 I just have to say that I really appreciate your observations. You really go the extra distance in delineating the differences between products.

 As much as I'm begining to like Rick and Brett personally I do have the same concerns as you about the products I have tried so far. I realize I don't have the experience you have with current products but I am a professional musician so, hopefully, I am not deaf and hopefully I know what things are supposed to sound like.

 With that in mind it's my opinion that the soundstaging of the VD products is Class A all the way and, as you say, they are clearly "breakthrough" products (I defer to your greater experience on this) but I also would like a little more excitement on the top end. As I've said before this is a preference of mine and may not affect others as much so if you are reading this and haven't tried the VD cables yet don't rule them out. I assure you you have not heard anything like these before.

 I've said it before but I'll say it again and that is that the VD stuff provides more detail than anything I've heard or tried so far but, at the same time, to my ears the presentation is just slightly too soft or sophisticated sounding to make me feel 100% satisfied. I need more drama. More excitement. 

 This brings me to a point. To my ears many products which have a reputation for great soundstaging have a similar effect and that is that in order to make it sound big everything is spread out tall, wide and deep but often at the expense of any forwardness. I am sure that there are many audiophiles who like this effect but I am not one of them and I do not believe that this is the way music sounds in the real world. This effect to me is sort of like 2 and 1/2 dimensions rather than 3D. I do not just want to look at the picture I want to jump in and look around a bit. Be there with it -- not just observing.

 This is why I ordered the Nite Series. I am hoping to get the whole picture.

 Now, if they would just show up.





 Best
 Brian


----------



## DarkAngel

BK
 What is the ETA now for those Nite cables? Suspense is growing.

 PM
 Give us update on those ZU Varial ICs and Mother AC cord, how do they sound vs SA Appassionata and AZ Matrix?

 DA
 Will get his Mapleshade Excalibur ribbon ICs tuesday, will post some photos, these are radical design.


----------



## pigmode

I will post at the end of the week, as it is taking longer than I figured to reach 100 hours. I may post at 80 hr. since the Varials have undergone much change very early on.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*I will post at the end of the week, as it is taking longer than I figured to reach 100 hours. I may post at 80 hr. since the Varials have undergone much change very early on. * 
 

Don't wait too long as our 25% harmonic discord discount expires 7/31 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If these Mapleshade ribbon ICs sound as good as reviewer claims,
 then I guess it won't matter.


----------



## bkelly

To Mark, Dark Angel, John Acton and the Rest,

 I just wrote you guys a lengthy and detailed first impression of the Nite Power but my computer locked when I tried to send it. Now I will have to make it short and to the point.

 I was afraid that when I got the Nite stuff I might like it so much that you guys would think I was lying when I wrote in to rave about them but I'm hoping that you won't anyway because there is no way to say it but to say that the Nite Power is absolutely incredible in my system. It is also quite a bit different than the earlier stuff. The differences are also so obvious you don't even have to be listening to hear them. I can stand in the next room and hear the improvements plainly.

 First off the soundstage is even bigger (especially in height) and overall the presentation is much, much more exciting and more dramatic. Drums and percussion sound like the players mean business. They are not just keeping track of time anymore. Mids or bigger and the bass is in a completely different class than before. More seperation down there at the bottom and much tighter. Almost a dry (like dry wine,) sound. Really nice for me because I listen to accoustic jazz most of the time although for this review I was listening to Sting in the 15 minutes I've listened to the Nite stuff so far. See, it doesn't take long to hear these differences.

 Anyhow, I'm off for some further listening. Maybe you guys will have something to say while I'm offline. 

 Overall I am going to have to say that the Nite Series is much better than I expected. Truthfully in my wildest dreams I would have never thought that there could be such an improvement over the other VD cable I was using. 

 Talk soon.




 Best
 Brian


----------



## eric343

*how* much do the Nites cost again?


----------



## bkelly

I'm back,

 Well, I've got to say that this easily the most excited I can ever remember being after purchasing an audio component. The sound of the Nite power is just the way I like to hear it. Exciting, detailed and dramatic. 

 I have now listened to everything from Sting to Miles Davis to Nine Inch Nails and follwed that with classical violinist Maxim Vengerov performing the Sibelius Violin Concerto on DVD. For those of you who don't know him you are in for a shock because at about 27 years of age there are many people who feel that he may already be the greatest violinist who ever lived. I am sure he is an he'd be my candidate for the greatest living musician. If you are at all interested in him email me and Ill help turn you on.

 Anyhow, my system has never sounded anywhere near this good. My daughter was sitting next to me on the couch as I was listeng to "Sketches Of Spain" by Miles Davis and I noticed she had a funny look on her face and I asked her if everything was OK and she said she was fine she was just in deep concentration listening to the music because it sounded so beautiful. That should actually be the difinitive review because she hates Miles Davis and anything remotely jazzy. 

 When I ordered the Nite stuff I was so happy with the Reference, Audition and Power Two cables I had I was only hoping for some mild improvements to what I already recognized as probably the state of the art in power cables. Well Rick blew that hope out of the water by fixing things I didn't even know were broken. The Nite stuff is alive with music. Incredibly alive! I am so happy with this cable that I have not even plugged in my Nite interconnects. And, I am so sold on the power cable even at this point I will not be waiting for 30 days to go by before paying for them I will be sending Virtual Dynamics their money tomorrow and beg Rick to let me trade in my Refence and Audition on more Nite stuff.

 To Dark Angel and John,

 You both should reconsider Rick's offer to let you audition these things becasue you really need to experience this. Don't wait until these things are twice the price. You might even save money in the long run because this is the end of neurotic upgrade-itis for me. My system sounds great and only a few hours ago I thought it sounded good but needed work (upgrade-itis).

 Mark,

 You, on the other, hand were right in feeling like you would have to have them if you tried them because there would be no way you would be able to return them after the audition. No way. A special "thanks" goes to you for getting us all started down this road with VD. Fortunately, I don't think I'm traveling down that road anymore, I think I've finally arrived.


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## JohnActon

Oh boy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Unfortunately, Brian, that was a great review. And I'm sure that, with your breadth of experience with the lower-rung VD stuff, you're not just waxing poetic. Damn you! I knew this would happen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Couple of questions:

 1) Are they inflexible? How do they compare in this regard to the Reference AC cords?

 2) Do you have any means to post pictures of these babies in your system?

 3) Did you opt for to have VD burn 'em in for you before shipment?

 Wow, they really sound like they are beautiful. And you make a very good point; once you own the best, you feel little incentive to upgrade, no matter what components you acquire. I already feel the same way about my Kimber Select interconnect and speaker cable. The Nite interconnects don't appeal to me nearly as much, because I'm confident that I already own some of the best stuff out there. Of course, I haven't seen what you think of 'em yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Alright, then, here's the bottom line (for me, at least). I wonder if Brett and Rick would allow me to trade in my Reference AC cords for credit towards the Nite stuff. It won't take a Nostradamus or Miss Cleo to foresee that a call to the boys at Virtual Dynamics is probably in my very near future. Apparently, my Good Samaritan goal is to single-handedly raise North America out of its economic slump by personally taking on all its debt.


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## bkelly

John,

 I always love reading your comments. you're very funny.

 To answer your questions:

 1. Yes they are more inflexible. They have an outer braided metal (stainless steel I presume) covering. They are really beautul though. They really look like the expensive stuff.

 2. I have one of those all purpose digital recorder cameras but I have no clue how to use it to post pictures on the computer. I may buy a digital camera that is already setup for that purpose but I have spent a lot of money lately so I kind of put the brakes on that. I recently came into a pretty good peice of money by way of back due money at work but I have already spent most of it on audio and stuff for my wife's home (I only own the cars, motorcycle, stereo the garage and the farm equipment and she owns the house, at least that's the way she looks at it).

 3. Yeah, I ordered them already burned in. They still need to burn in with your equipment but the sound great right out of the box.

 I don't know how they compare with the Nite stuff but the Kimber Select is supposed to be some great stuff. At this point I am inclined to keep my system all VD because both Rick and Brett claim that is the way to Nirvana and to their credit they have always told me the truth, and, no matter how much it sounded like a sales pitch they have always been right.

 They made big claims for the Nite Power but in my mind I just couldn't imagine that much difference. Once again their claims were not just an over-hyped sales pitch but the absolute truth. They really are as good as they said they were.

 As far as listening goes I can say with all honesty I am not looking to have the latest most exclusive stuff out there. For one, I can't even afford that but more importantly I've heard some great sounding stuff for a lot less than the the prices the top of the line stuff goes for. There's also a lot to be said for getting your systems components to work in harmony. That helps in a big way. 

 Being a musician I think helps me because I know for sure what the different instruments sound like and with a studio background I know a lot about how they are recorded so when I listen to a particular peice of equipment my method of telling how accurate it is is often based on how well it delineates the actual recording process. Those things are meant to be hidden or disguised but I am aware of them and I look for them. But it doesn't take the latest gear out there to get that close to the music. Only ten years ago Audio Research (I think that's their name) built tube amps that would scare you to death at how beautiful they sounded and how detailed they were. They even made a tube pre-amp that people argued was too detailed. And, you know that that stuff is still out there and probably reasonable.

 My point is once I am staisfied then I am done looking. 

 It's for sure that I do not hear any better than anyone else it's just that I sometimes know better what I am listening to. I also have been around the reocrding business so much and for so long that I know the differences in how each of my ears hears. No two are alike and for critical listening (not musical listening) it helps to know how each ear hears. If you don't know now you could concentrate on finding this out with your own ears by using test records or something like that and you would quickly get it. 

 I apologize for getting long-winded. It's hard to stop sometimes and I just love this stuff and a lot of the people I've met who are involed in it. 

 Talk soon.



 Best
 Brian


----------



## pigmode

bkelly,

 I'm really glad you're happy with that PC. You had me worried for a while. How much is the Nite going for anyway?


----------



## bkelly

To Eric343 and Pigmode,

 The Nite Power lists for for $1,500.00 but Rick is so enthused about the Nite Series he will make anyone from this website an incredible deal just to try them.

 Of course, I listened my system until 2:00 AM and I am still in shock at the difference. It sounds like I bought all new amplification. I am amazed at the difference a single power cable made. I should mention again that I was able to ugrade the pre-amp from Audition to Reference and the power amp from Power Two to Audition at the same time because I had the Nite series in the CDP where the Reference originally was. I don't know what difference that made to the final result but I am sure that what I am hearing is what is being produced by the Nite cable because I never heard these kind of differences with the other cables.

 Dark Angel was absolutely correct in saying that the earlier cables mainly improved the soundstage characteristics. Add to that how much cleaner things get and the increased level of detail with the earlier series and you have pretty much covered the magic that is the Audition, Reference and Power series. I have never tried the Signature so I don't know what they are like but I do know that they are more related technically to the other cables than they are to the Nite series.

 The Nite Series is another animal altogether! They once asked asked guitarist Jeff Beck why he switched from using Gibson guitars to using Fender's and he said that the Gibson's were like fine musical instruments while the Fender's were more like weapons. More lethal! That is the way the Nite Power is. The Nite stuff is so exciting it could be lethal. Might cause heart attacks.


----------



## Ricky

Won't do more posts at this thread, but:

 bkelly, have you talked to any colleague at recording studios about your brand new $1500 power cord? If so, which was their response?

 To finish, just one advice. For a more in-depth burn-in, just make sure to attach a couple of toasters along with your equipment to the cord. Ah! Also, recite some mantras so that the burn-in really settles in. I'm sure you will appreciate the improvement.

 Also, if you can buy them for $3000, they will surely make even a bigger diference!


----------



## pigmode

Why are you trolling this thread, ricky? You know damn well that such comments are not wanted here. What is compelling you to slam a fellow member who has just invested a substantial amount of money and is more than happy with his purchase? Why are you trying to belittle his experience with the Nite PC?


----------



## dhwilkin

Ignore him, since he has nothing worthwhile to contribute. Every other thread he's posted in has come crashing to a halt, simply because people insisted on responding to him. This thread has too much time and information invested in it to let it be brought down.

 Just ignore him, and carry on w/ the discussion.

 bkelly, sorry, I don't remember if you said or not. Are you using any power conditioning as well?


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## bkelly

Ricky,

 I don't know if you are serious but I haven't talked with anyone but the Head-Fi folks for the last 1/2 day. (night actually). But, to answer your question, no one here in the Nashville studios would be surprised. Most studios don't chase the absolute latest wiring technology and truthfully most wire specialty companies don't seem to encourage that business anyway but, otherwise, any reasonable studio uses some form of high tech wiring. They buy it in bulk and have a house tech put it together. I don't know what is currently in vogue since that is not my primary business anymore but G & L was all the rage for wiring together components only a few years ago. It's a Nashville based company so I am sure they still have a strong presence in the pro studios

 I should say that for the most part I don't do much studio work anymore. I am only interested in playing mainstream jazz personally and that is really all I want to do so I don't encourage anyone to hire me for studio work. Also, there are much better people to hire than me for that kind of work. You have to keep real current to do that stuff and I couldn't care less about what is currently happening in pop music, Christian music or country. In fact, I don't even much like country music and have never recorded a whole lot of it except when I was young and just getting started.

 I'm not sure if the toaster comment is supposed to be funny or insulting. Either way it doesn't change anything I have said about the Nite stuff. I expect my closest friends will think I've stepped over the edge but as soon as they hear the Nite stuff there will be no question as to my sanity, on this issue at least. You don't have to be an audiophile to hear the differences these things make. They are just screaming Class A quality. They are so good that I think that they are going to cause people to re-evaluate their preferences and prejudices about what is really real and really important in audio reproduction.

 Read over my reviews of the other VD cables. I was never anywhere near as excited about the other stuff as I am of the Nite. I thought I was heading in the right direction before and had spent my money wisely but with the Nite series cable I feel like I'm not just heading in the right direction, I am already there.

 To everyone concerned I realize that so far most of my comments are subjective but I think that's important and shows better than anything else how strongly I feel about these cables. Before I installed the Nite Power I was kind of ashamed of my stereo. I had spent six or seven thousand dollars (list prices) and had only come close. When my friends asked me if they could come over and listen to my system I used to put them off telling them to wait a few months before coming over because I was still working on getting everything right.

 As soon as I put the Nite Power in I was so proud of the way my system sounded that I wouldn't care if Mark Levinson came by. Of coure, I would have a cardiologist give him a check-up first just to make sure he survived the experience.

 I hope this is helpful to everyone.

 To John and Dark Angel and possibly Mark,

 You guys need to order the Nite Power because, by myself, no one is going to believe me. 

 Talk soon.


----------



## Ricky

This is definitely my last post at this thread, all I want to say that I find this "bkelly" person a little bit suspicious, mostly because of his permanent insistance on VD cables, including how you "must" try the Nite power cord. He seems to know Rick and Brett at VD very well...

 Just my 2 cents to the other people at this forum. Just think a little bit about this.


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## bkelly

To Pigmode and Dhwilikin,

 Man I am having a ton of trouble getting stuff to post. I have rewritten so much stuff in the past 1/2 a day I just can't believe it. Maybe in my excitement I am hitting the wrong key somewhee.

 Anyhow, "thanks" for the support. I feel a little uncomfortable with this anyway since I am returning to the hobby after a five year layoff and I am not as current on what is available regarding audio gear. Never-the-less I do feel confident that the Nite stuff is the best there is. It's hard to imagine anything better than this. It's so much of an improvement that there is no sense in me endlessly describing the top-end improvements in detail or how the bottom end sounds on my system as opposed to some other because, in truth, everything is better. It's more alive. Much more alive. It's a wore out cliche' but it just sounds like the real thing.

 As far as conditioning goes I have about six Triplite Isobars around the house. Two or three of them were modified several years ago but I can't say for positive if the one I am using is one of those or it's stock. It would be difficult to run my system without the multiple inputs because I have two powered subwoofers built into the B&W speakers I use and with the Home theater style setup I have I have a lot of things to plug in. If any of the Head-Fi folks really insist on it I might try to plug it straight into the wall socket (nothing special there, either).

 Again, thanks for the support.

 Once again, I will state that I like stereo reproduction way more dynamic than some audiohiles so anything I say should be considered with that character in mind. 





 Best
 Brian


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## squirt

Personally i'm suspicious of bkelly myself....just think about it...he lives in Music City (Nashville)...this can only mean he's....ELVIS!!!

 But really Ricky, you said you would stop posting in this thread before but we are getting sequels...

 Like any review we all express our impressions, opinions, observation, on the equipment we have and i've been following this thread with great interest and am considering the Night PCs as well as a result of bkelly's and others reviews...and Ricky i also have taken note of your opinions as well though i'm not swayed by them...


----------



## bkelly

Ricky,

 Well, this is going to be my last comment to you since we don't really seem to be comunicating or accomplishing much.

 First off, I am in no way associated with Virtual Dynamics and they in no way pay me or treat me any different than anyone who has been involved in this thread from the begining. I'm not even sure if they would recognize my full name without an address book. However, I get very involved in this personally because I think the technology is so interesting. I mean, how does a power cable make so much of a difference? That's an intereting subject to me. So, when I talk with Rick or Brett I do tend to keep them on the phone as long as possible answering my questions.

 I also like them very much personally and feel they are making serious advances in this field and merit support. If you ever talk to Rick you will see that he is on a mission about this stuff and I have called him late at night, at the office, to leave a message about my order or something and he is still there, breathing heavy, and working the night away.

 I do encourage everyone to try the cables "risk free" (if you hate them, return them) so you will know for yourself whether or not I am lying or maybe it's just possible that you may like something different than I do. It's really that simple and there really is nothing more to it than that.

 I'm done.


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## markl

bkelly,
 Try to ignore "Ricky". He's a useless troll (one of the only if not THE only one on this site) with nothing to contribute to this thread. We all know his un-informed views on cables by now. He also promised to go away due to popular demand, but he seems to be hanging around despite getting our hopes up.

 Ricky,
 Have you even read this whole thread? If you had, you'd know that bkelly was influenced by ME (am I "suspicious" too) to try the VD cables in the first place. He had never even heard of them before we became involved in a transaction via audiogon. bkelly is indeed a "real" person. You, however, are a troll.

 Moderator-- I will NOT allow Ricky to further crap on this thread. Can he be selectively banned from individual threads or must he be banned outright? Much as I dislike him, I am against an outright ban--- I just don't want him in my thread. 

 markl


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## markl

OK, now that house-keeping is done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ,

 I want everyone to know that I got a very excited voice-mail from bkelly late last night. Suffice to say, he was very very enthused about the Nite Series cable, and was so happy-- he couldn't wait to tell me in person! I wasn't around to take the call, but I could tell he was almost speachless about these cables!

 He's had a chance to hear a lot of the VD cables at different price points in the line, so I take him at his word that the Nite Series is really in a different class.

 As soon as I get some things sorted out money-wise, I for one will be in touch with VD about the Nite Series. 

 Thanks for posting your impressions, Brian, and I'm glad they worked out so well for you!

 markl


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## DarkAngel

*New Toys* 
 My Excalibur ribbon ICs have arrived and are getting burned on system 2, check these babies out:
Excalibur Ribbons 

*Call to Canada* 
 BK, don't worry I made the call today and arranged for a Nite AC cord to be sent to me for trail, if I decide to keep I will buy. Will take 1 week to make/cook cable and another week to ship so about two weeks for my Nite to arrive.

 Mark and JA are feeling left out now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 BTW just wanted to clear up a technical detail, the Nite AC cord has copper conductors (no silver conductor) Will be sure and get some sweet photos posted when Nite arrives.


----------



## Nezer

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*New Toys 
 My Excalibur ribbon ICs have arrived and are getting burned on system 2, check these babies out:
Excalibur Ribbons 

Call to Canada 
 BK, don't worry I made the call today and arranged for a Nite AC cord to be sent to me for trail, if I decide to keep I will buy. Will take 1 week to make/cook cable and another week to ship so about two weeks for my Nite to arrive.

 Mark and JA are feeling left out now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

Something tells me those were a LOT more expensive than they look.


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## kelly

I agree with Mark that Mark is suspicious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have to admit, I'm pretty prejudiced against those ribbons. Not like I haven't been wrong before, mind you, but those sure don't look convincing.

 Will look forward to your full report as always, DA.


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by kelly _
*I agree with Mark that Mark is suspicious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have to admit, I'm pretty prejudiced against those ribbons. Not like I haven't been wrong before, mind you, but those sure don't look convincing.
 Will look forward to your full report as always, DA. * 
 

The reason I tried them (besides the recent review at Enjoy the Music) is there is a very long running thread at Audiogon about people using the amazingly simple Sakura OTA cable kits (note the plastic RCA plugs used!)
sakura OTA 
 This is somewhat similar to old Mapleshade design (ultrathin) which are replaced by new ribbons, supposedly much better according to Mapleshade.

 Got to stretch the envelope a bit here, 30 day return policy so nothing to lose. (Vertigo is eager to take them off my hands, heh,heh,heh)


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## pigmode

DA,

 I hope those ribbons work out for you. Although I don't have much experience with copper cables, my guess is you'll be back on silver before long.


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## JohnActon

Alright, I've been thinking. Temperance has raised her beautiful head. I'm now considering holding off on looking into the Nite AC cords, and ultimately may decide to stick with my Reference AC cords. Two reasons:

 1) I've been re-reading the posts on this thread and I also wnt back and re-read the review by Matt on VD's website. It sounds like as you move up through the VD AC cord lineup, the ability to resolve detail increases. Here'e the thing; my system already does very well in presenting detail. My Magnepan speakers are very fast and very adept at uncovering every detail in the recording. My room size dictates that I listen in the nearfield, and I'm concerned that any more "detail" may push the balance forward into stridency. Right now there is no extra emphasis placed on sibilants, and on well-recorded material, cymbals are placed proportionally in the soundstage. Likewise, the Stax Omega II has that rare ability to paradoxically lay bare every detail hiding in a recording but do so in a musically cohesive fashion, without drawing attention to the details themselves. Is it possible that the Nite cords might let through even more detail present in either my system or recordings, to the point that it is overly analytical or fatiguing? 

 2) I've been re-reading Dark Angel's and Mark's posts at the beginning of this thread (way back in the mists of time) regarding proportion and balance in regards to audio system purchasing and synergy. If I purchase the Nite cords, my components will not be much more expensive than all the cords feeding them. That can't be right, can it? 

 Opinions, please? Can anyone talk me out of this disturbing brush with sanity?


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## kelly

Unfortunately for me, I've been converted. I now have to confess a pretty strong belief in the idea that cables make a genuine difference.

 However, I am still very much in the components-matter-more camp.

 In other words, would a 306/200+$300 power cable not be better than a 303/200+$1400 power cable?

 If you already have the best components and have nowhere else to go there, then maybe cables become more worth it. At that point, you're squeasing performance anywhere you can get it. But if you don't already have the best components--and sometimes the best modified components, even--is there not more performance to be gained there instead?


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## bkelly

John and Kelly,

 I know all of those arguments and made some of them myself early on but I kid you not the Nite Series sort of defies logic. You can look it up but my system is nice but no better than quality mid-fi and all of a sudden it sounds quite nearly like the expensive stuff.

 I've been tryng to all day to figure out a formula for upgrading equipment versus VD power cables. Like I said earlier, my system now sounds like I made a serious upgrade in amplifiers. I don't know how much I would have had to spend upgrading amplifiers to get an equal improvement but I am sure it would be more than the amount that a Nite Power lists for.

 Here's where my system stands now. It still sounds wonderful and much better than I was expecting. I am so happy that I called Rick and Brett today and paid off the one I was auditining in my system. I also, ordered another one.

 I am so satisfied with my system just as it is I haven't even put the Nite interconnects in the system yet. I will soon though. 

 John, I still don't see why you wouldn't audition the Nite Series in your own system. You can return it if you don't like it. If you try it you can make an informed decision. No guessing. If you r listening environment is just as you say the Nite series may be a bit much for you because they are intensely dynamic sounding. They are not bright though and there is no edginess what-so-ever. You have to hear them to really understand.

 I hope that helps.


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## pigmode

John, here are my thoughts on cable upgrades after my recent and ongoing program of IC upgrades. This is in reference to any system of a _certain_ quality level, of which your headphone setup definitely qualifies. 

 I think you can go way over the top in terms of cable upgrades, and you will still see a noticable and worth while improvement. To realize a similar or perhaps a greater gain with component upgrades, you will probably have to spend subtantially more. Neither approach is right or wrong. Only you can decide on the value of the upgrade. You are splitting hairs in the pursuit of your own little state of perfection. 

 This can become a somewhat nauseating little game, or at least it has become that way for me. I have found that I am very near the point where upgrade-mania is reaching the point where it is tme to say enough--time to sit back and enjoy the fruits of of all this cosumeristic abandon. Time to take a break. I'm not quite ready yet, but my time is coming up fast.

 As far as how the Nites will intergrate in your system, there is really only one way to find out. I know you know that.


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## DarkAngel

BK
 OMG, another Nite cord! You must realllllllllllllly like these, glad they are working out so well for you, I will join the Nite club in a couple weeks.

 JA
 I understand you concerns, but my understanding of the sound you will get with the Nite is tonally very similar to Reference,
 just greater resolution of fine detail. Supposedly there is not the tonal shifting present that some silver cables produce over emphasizing the treble range and producing a bright sound. Still it is hard to predict how it will sound in someone else's system,
 audition is the only way to really find out. The Nite I get is going right on my CDP, this was easily the component that produced geatest improvement from Reference cord.

 BK may want to give his impressions on this, otherwise I will answer your question in @2 weeks.

 As far as cost, you can get a "very" special price from Ric, just mention this thread and your previous purchases. Not really too much more vs Reference (at least that was my rationale) I have many cables in my collection I can sell to make room for Nite if it stays.

 I know Mark is checking to see what he can sell to budget a Nite audition 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When are you guys going to get those Mapleshade Heavy Foot brass cones?...........they are essential tweak in my system


----------



## Vertigo-1

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Got to stretch the envelope a bit here, 30 day return policy so nothing to lose. (Vertigo is eager to take them off my hands, heh,heh,heh) * 
 

I'm over here praying to the voodoo gods three times a day hoping that they'll put tons of grit and brightness and flabby bass into those Mapleshades in your system. Then you'll hate them and pass them right into my hot little hands. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 So umm, how are they so far? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 How's their build quality and stuff?


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## DarkAngel

Excalibur ribbons
 I will put them in main rig Friday and audition over the weekend, 
 just on first brief listen in system 2 didn't sound bright at all.
 As you can see from my photo the RCAs are very nice, the ultrathin ribbons are almost weightless, reminds me of cassette tape. I will have to make sure these ICs pick up no noise since there is no sheilding or braiding to counteract.


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## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 I do realllllly like the Nites. This is the most excited I have ever been over an audio purchase. I can't tell you how much my system seemed to come to life after installing the Nite Power but it was much more than anyone would have imagined from a power cable and more than all of the other VD stuff I purchased combined. I swear that is true, too! 

 I should add some technical info I got from Rick so you can better evaluate my comments. As I explained in an earlier thread I built an adapter to hook my CDP cable to my VD power cables since the CDP's cable is non-removeable. Rick says that because there is still five feet of stock power cable in my system the Reference would still work but would not operate at 100% efficiency. However, Ricks says the Nite Power would be much less affected by this setup and that would also explain why in my system the leap from Reference to Nite seemes almost unbelevable. So, put that into the equation when considering my comments on the Nite Series in my system.

 I'm going to stick with my observation that the Nite sounds like a different animal than all of the rest of the VD cables. This stuff is DYNAMIC!!! It's ALIVE!!! It is RADICALLY more DETAILED!!! You haven't heard percussion until you've heard this. However, it is not bright nor is it necessarilly more forward or aggressive. In that sense and also in it's soundstage presention it is a lot like like the earlier cables. Like them it provides more detail without any brightness and the soundstage is wonderful. The Nite series is more 3D and, in my system, the soundsatege is quite a bit taller. The warm sophisticated sound of the earlier series is gone. This is no longer a romantic evening for two at a five-star restuarant this is like skipping dinner altogether and going straight to the Wild Sex.

 Thanks for informing me that the cables are not made of silver. I didn't know that and at first I thought the silver may account for much of the dfifference I hear between these cables and the earlier series stuff. 

 I can't wait until you and Mark and John get the Nite Power because there is no way you are going to believe me until youv'e heard it for yourselves.

 I said earlier that the Nite was so much better in almost every category that I was not going to reiview it by detailing all of the differences. Truly that is something you should do for yourself . However, I will say that the mid-range is noticably improved in my system. Voices or lead instruments now really sound like they are what the recording is built around. They sound bigger, fuller and are made more prominent in the recording in a manner similar to the way tubes reproduce mids. 

 I hope that helps.

 Talk soon.


 Best 
 Brian


----------



## acidtripwow

Has anybody tried the Nite digital coax, yet?


----------



## pigmode

DA,

 Just a quick check-in on the Varial ICs. I just finished my comparison with the Silver Audio Appassionata last night. The upshot is the Appassionata is now for sale at Audiogon, and I will be ordering one more Varial.


----------



## markl

Why is this man smiling?

 Because he has just been informed that VD is sending him a complimentary Nite Series power cord, that's why! 

 Yes, winging its way to me from Canada as I type is my very own top-of-the-line VD power cord, just for sharing my experiences with you monkeys!

 Thanks Brett and Rick! I can't wait!

 markl


----------



## shorton

Markl,

 What was the purpose of this last post, Dude?

 Do you just enjoy inflickting pain?

 We lowly "monkeys" have to live with the fact that you just got $800 - $1500 worth of "free" updrade to your system for...for...for what? For making all of the rest of us suffer and drool?

 HAVE YOU NO SHAME, MAN? 






 Hope you enjoy 'em - and sell 'em to me at a substantial profit - say $50 bucks???!!! Huh? Whatdaya say? OK, $75...


----------



## JohnActon

Alright, I've been thinking about this long and hard. Kelly gave me much to think about. But then again, so did DA, Pigmode and Brian. 

 The long and short of it is, I'm pretty happy with my system. Of course, there are always changes I'd like to make (separates instead of integrated, better source, etc). But, making any of these desired changes will cost me more than I can currently spend. The Nite cords are not cheap, but certainly much cheaper than spending the thousands to upgrade my amp and cabling (new interconnect required for preamp) or trade in my Cary at (maybe) half-price towards a mucho-expensive player. From what I'm led to believe, the Nite cords provide improvements that are more than just refinements. And, the kicker is that I'm allowed to return them if I don't realize the benefits from performance vs. cost persepctive (at least with my gear). 

 Here's what I'm going to do, then. Because I'm weak (sorry, Kelly), I'm going to call Brett and Rick to see what's what. But, there's no way I'll be able to resist their pushy, strong-armed car salesman tactics. Lines like "try 'em out for a month, free of charge. If you don't like 'em, send 'em back no questions asked. If you do like 'em, we'll work out a deal". I'll crumble in the face of such Gestapo mind-torture. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll let everyone know how it turns out.


----------



## bkelly

John,

 You are a "freaking" riot. Your humor kills me.

 Mark,

 Congratulations. It's nice to see Rick and Brett reward you for getting all of us started in this. I don't know how much interest you have generated because of this thread but if you look at the numbers of hits on this thread it must be considerable.

 It's also nice to see that you, Dark Angel and now John are going to be joining me in the Nite Series Sanitarium with me. Who is next? Pigmode possibly? How about Kelly?

 This has been about as long a running and intense a thread as I could ever imagine. That along with all the excitement my Nite Power is pushing out of my stereo system has made me dizzy.



 Best
 Brian


----------



## kelly

See Blogg's thread about poor folks and priorities. My priorities are seriously out of whack. Even with that said, I'm still out of money. I mean bigtime out. People have offered me stuff for a good price that I owe them money on. More people have offered me stuff for a good price that I had to turn down. It's bad. I don't even look at Audiogon now.

 Of course, if I could get's Mark's price, I'd take one.

 Then again, Mark may have sold an organ and is just too embarassed to admit it.

 Have them send you the Nite ICs too, John, we wanna hear how they compare to your Kimber Selects -- and after all, the shipping is combined and you can send back what you don't keep, right?


----------



## DarkAngel

Just got my invoice for VD Nite in an e-mail, ship date is estimated
 7/31, lets check Nite AC cord owner list:

 BK - 2 Nites (I think he kinda likes these)
 DA - 1 Nite
 Mark - 1 Nite
 JA - 2 Nites (resistance melted away fast) 

 PM
 I was afraid you would say the Varials beat out your Appassionatas, I have too many cables to try now to take advantage of July special at ZU.........what about the Zu Mothers,
 do you like them and what AC cords do you have now (or have recently tried)


----------



## JohnActon

Well, the deal's done. I have sold my soul! I just hope that Audio Hell is not a Britney Spears 8-track playing over a York all-plastic mini-system. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yep, I caved in record time (even for me). Brett answered the phone with a "Hello, John. Welcome back." I didn't even have to say anything. 

 Okay, in all seriousness, Brett was extremely cool and knowledgeable, and he answered all my questions and provided the advice I was looking for (in a totally objective manner, providing both sides to every issue under discussion). Basically, he provided the information and pros and cons to that information, and I made the decision to go or not go with the Nite, accordingly. 

 So, the good stuff - I asked Brett if I could buy two Nite AC cords. He's going to let me compare them to my References, and if I like them and want to keep them, he will let me return two of my References for credit towards the Nite cords.

 Pretty awesome customer service, yes? I would imagine that if anyone here who already has VD stuff were to ask nicely, this exchange program could probably be arranged for them as well, depending on what you were intending to upgrade to, of course. You'd have to ask, though, as I don't want to speak for Brett and Rick. 

 Lastly, don't think that Brett and Rick don't follow this thread; they do. And they wanted to pass along that they will mark down for grammar and spelling. And you do want a star at the top of your paper, right?


----------



## shorton

Quote:


 Lastly, don't think that Brett and Rick don't follow this thread; they do. 
 

Dear Santa Brett and Santa Rick,

 I have ben...been a very gud...good boy this year.

 all I want is a new bike
 and a tv (easy to spell)
 and 3 VD Nite PC's
 and 1 VD Nite digital
 and 1 VD Nite IC

 all cryo'ed please...except maybe the tv


----------



## dhwilkin

LOL, yeah, I've been as good as shorton! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just wish I didn't have to upgrade my source and interconnects, first. I'm also somewhat skeptical as to how much improvement I would get, seeing as I've already got a balanced power unit.


----------



## eric343

Hmm... Although there's no way I could ever afford them, I may have to call up VD and see if I can get a "loaner" unit of something good- just to convince myself that power cords really *do* make a difference...

 They do seem like nice types, though. Especially since they sent Markl a freebie


----------



## elybry

Hello all

 Brent turned me on to this site and I have read the posts over the past couple of days. I know that this is a head phone site, but I don't have any headphones, so I hope I am allowed to post. I too began my quest to upgrade over the past year. Initially a pre/pro, then a dvd-a player, then a 2 and 3 channel amps,then I added speakers, and then cables. First some interconnects some analysis plus copper, then stealth cws and scr. Then speaker cables, some stealth premier copper. Then I had a dreaded buzz come from my speakers. What was this, ground hum? I then decided I needed a power conditioner. While this was on order, I thought why not try a hospital grade power cord which I had easy access to. Hmmmm, there is a difference here. Maybe there is something to all this hype. I did some research, which power cord to get? I decided to try the Stealth M21 cord which I found at a great price on Audiogon and the Virtual Dynamics power 2. The power 2 arrived first. Wow, this is huge. I plugged it in and was completely blown away. What detail, soundstage, and musicality. A greater improvement than when I upgraded speakers. If this power cord could do this much, just wait until the top of the line stealth. I also noticed that my amps did run significantly cooler to the touch. It arrived and I was disappointed. Nowhere near the sound quality. Both of these cords were broken in before listening. I was now a believer in power cords. I was also amazed at the sound from the vd cords. If their basic power cord is this good, what about their other lines. Which line to chose? Where was the point of diminishing returns? Probably their middle of the line. At this point I had ordered a reference cable package which was made and ready to ship, then I thought how much better can the nite series be? Well, after several discussions with Rick and e-mails with Brian and several other people who have tried the audition, reference, signature, and nite; I have decided to take the ultimate plunge - a nite series package of pc, ic and speaker cables. I will update you when I receive them and hook them up. I can't wait.

 Carl


----------



## JohnActon

Welcome to head-fi, Carl. You'd have to confirm with Jude, who runs this site, but I'm pretty sure there is no cover charge (i.e. you do not have to own headphones) to hang out and contribute. But, if you do continue to hang out here, don't be surprised if you don't get curious and then start buying at least something headphone-related. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Wow, that's some first post! Nite AC, IC and speaker cables in one fell swoop? Good God, man - you certainly don't waste any time. Please let us all know what you think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, I received an e-mail from VD stating that my Nites are anticipated to ship on Aug. 7.

 Kelly, I just couldn't do the Nite IC's. I'm very happy with my Kimber Select, and what happens if I like the Nite better? This kind of theorizing can make your head explode. If I liked 'em, I'd have to buy 'em, see? To do that, I'd have to sell my roommates into white slavery. And I hear that's illegal.


----------



## bkelly

Friends,

 You just missed me writing a scathing review of the Nite IC's. Here's what happened. When I came home tonight I installed the interconnects in my system and sat back to enjoy my latest visit to hi-fi Nirvana but it quickly became apparent that, with the Nite IC's in the system, my system sucked and sucked bad, too. It was dark and hazy and the mids sounded out of phase. I was shocked at the drop in performance and really began to panic. I knew I was going to have to review these things on this site and my extreme disappointment was going to look pretty nutty. And, truthfully I felt a little ill for Rick and Brett who would be hurt personally and professionally by my harsh review.

 At first I thought of calling Mark but I decided to call Rick instead and just to be fair ask him if there was any possibility that the cables were broken or somehow defective. Fortunatley, for this story, Rick could not come to the phone and I told whoever answered to have him call me as soon as possible and that my call was important.

 Well after getting off the phone I didn't even return to the living room to listen to my system I just stayed in the family room and played my guitar while I waited for Rick to call me back. After a wait of about forty-five minutes I went to the kitchen to make a cup of coffee and while I was in there I noticed that my sytem didn't seem to sound quite as bad as before. So, I walked into the living room and checked it out. Damn, it sounded pretyy good so I decided to change a couple of CD's and check it out further and, sure enough, it sounded just like before only a little better, especially in the bottom end. Bass was really tight now.

 I thougt about this for awhile and came to the conclusion that the IC's must not have been burned in like the power cable. 

 Rick finally called and when I asked him about whether or not they had been burned in he said they definitely had been but what he said was happening was that the when cables are burned in it is at very high voltages and when you first get them they are basically "highly "charged" and that this affects the sound for about forty-five minutes. Makes it "hazy" sounding was his description. He also said that the cables are directional and after checking mine it turned out that all of them were in backwards (opposite from the way they were burned in). So, I turned them around and came here to let you guys know what is going on. So far, so good, but at this point it is too early for me to say much about the IC's. In the short period I heard them in my system I think it's safe to say that they are definitley in the same family as the Nite Power. Whether or not the improvement is as dramatic as the installation of the Nite Power I can't say yet for certain.

 I hope that helps.

 Carl,

 You are definitely welcomed here. I didn't have any headpones either when I joined this site. What attracted me here and has kept me here is the quality of the people involed. They're all fanatics about hi-fi and very helpful and freindly. 

 The lastest is that I now have three sets of headphones and a really nice headphone amp and I'm looking for more.

 Talk soon. 




 Best
 Brian


----------



## DarkAngel

*Carl...........OMG* 
 Complete Nite package, that has to cost some coin! Don't worry about the headphone issue, I spend 80% of my time listening to stereo, only use headphones early morning or late night because of neighbors. I am using VD References on front end gear and VD P2s on a pair of Musical Fidelity amps, I have been using various AC cords for last 3-4 years and really think VD cords are fabulous.

 When you get a chance please complete your profile and list equipment, this is very helpful point of reference when discussing cables etc.

 JA
 Looks like Head-Fi is causing Nite backlog, I should get my Nite AC cord ahead of you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thats OK you have some VD References to hold you over.

 BK
 I think also the process of shipping cables requires a day or so for the cable to settle in even though it had been cooked previously. I noticed on my VD Sig ICs there was no directional marking and I had to put small label on them to mark direction, this is something VD should really address on future ICs with graphic label change. Also you need this when you change equipment or ICs so you keep track of direction.


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 All I know is that the Nite Power was swinging from the first moment I hooked it up but the Nite IC's really damped down my system. I don't know how much the newness had to do with that or how much was the result of burning it in at VD or possobly the fact that they were installed backwards but the result was ugly for about an hour.

 It is good that Carl has joined because he wll be the first to have his whole system done out in the Nite Series cables. I'm hoping to do that but it will take me awhile.

 The reason I haven't ordered that Mapleshades Brass Hats is because I can't get them to fit in my current sytems rack (under the TV).

 Man, I didn't know you had two Musical Fidelity amps. I envy that because I love their equipment.

 Anyhow, as usual, it's good to hear from you.

 Got to go.




 Best
 Brian


----------



## acidtripwow

Well, I've decided to pick up a VD Nite digital coax cable. I'll see how it compares to my Acoustic Zen MC2. I should have it next week.


----------



## AC1

Quote:


 _Originally posted by acidtripwow _
*Well, I've decided to pick up a VD Nite digital coax cable. I'll see how it compares to my Acoustic Zen MC2. I should have it next week. * 
 

That should be very interesting... I've been looking for a new digital cable and was seriously considering a Nite (though I do not know if they offer BNCs)... The knock on VD cables in general (not the pc's) has been their "thin" sound, including the Nite digital... Please keep us informed.


----------



## elybry

DA

 I have added my equipment to my profile. It all is a recent upgrade.

 I have a question about the forum. What does DBT-Free forum mean?

 I plan to open a whole new can of worms after I receive the nite series. Anyone interested?

 Anxiously awaiting my nite series.

 Carl


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by elybry _
*DA
 I have added my equipment to my profile. It all is a recent upgrade.
 I have a question about the forum. What does DBT-Free forum mean?
 I plan to open a whole new can of worms after I receive the nite series. Anyone interested?
 Anxiously awaiting my nite series.
 Carl * 
 

DBT - double blind testing
 means no discussions of blind testing cable challenges here.

 What do you mean about can of worms?


----------



## elybry

For all those into HT - video component cables.


----------



## bkelly

AC1,

 I can't imagine anyone claiming that the VD cables have a "thin" sound. Dark Angel and I have both made the observation that on the earlier cables the top end was slightly soft but, as far as I know, no one else has even commented on that. 

 As far as the Nite Series goes, in my sytem this stuff increases the dynamic impact so much that the Nite Series should be thought of as the audio equivalent of a Raging Bull. Still, even with that, it's neither harsh or aggressive. Dynamics is one thing you can't k make up, if it is not on the recording to begin with you can't create it. So, in my opinion, what the Nite Series is doing is just letting you hear how the recording actually sounds. So, I don't know whoever said that originally but in my opinion "thin" is out of the question as far as CD cables go. 

 Let's see what others have to say about that.

 Carl,

 You got my atention with that "can of worms" comment. Is something up?

 What exactly is double-blind testing?

 As far as my comments on the Nite IC's goes they will have to wait another day or two because yesterday I got some new CD's and a DVD about the history of the classical violin and, as you can imagine, I spent the whole evening (at least the late part) checking them out so I have not been able to listen to my system with music I was am familiar with.

 Talk soon.


----------



## DarkAngel

Just for the record:

 I returned my Excalibur Ribbons.

 Next on my IC audition list:
 AZ Silver Reference
 Analysis Plus silver oval
 Fortunately the AZ Silver Ref have never been cheaper used at Audiogon thanks to recent model upgrade.


----------



## JohnActon

I've been playing around with my Ultimate Outlet yesterday and today. Based on Brett and Rick's recommendations that their AC cords be plugged straight into the wall outlet rather than into any sort of power conditioner, I've been experimenting with running my CD player and amp straight into the wall, sans UO. I've gone back and forth a couple of times to be sure of what I'm hearing (I must have looked like Crocodile Hunter manhandling snakes, as I twisted, bent and contorted the Reference cords to make them work for the various arrangements - CRIKEY!) Here are my findings:

 First, the good stuff: when I took the UO out of the circuit, I discerned an immediate increase in dynamics. In fact, it almost sounded like music was louder at the same volume setting. Also, soundstaging was improved - more spacious and enveloping in the macro sense, and there was improved image specificity in the micro sense. The soundstage expanded and also allowed me to better pick out the placement of instruments within the soundstage. Music also just seemed to be more cohesive, and I found myself being able to relax more. It wasn't as much "work" to listen, while at the same time, I was able to hear more of the music. It's like I was able to hear more of the performance, less of the "sound", if that makes any sense.

 Now the bad stuff: with the UO out of the circuit, music seemed more veiled, less clear. I really do think there is something to PS Audio's claims regarding the 40db reduction in noise and grunge. There was more brightness, more clarity with the UO in the path. When I took it out, the treble seemed to drop a db or two. This was actually not bad on poor-sounding recordings. Still not sure whether this is good or bad on well-recorded material. However, I noticed that whenever I put the UO back into the circuit, the musical picture became more disjointed again; the new-found clarity kind of took away from the music, and things didn't flow as well. I seem to enjoy the music more with the UO out of the circuit, even if things are a little duller than I had gotten used to before. I'm going to keep playing with it. Brett and I were talking about this yesterday and I was going to call him and let him know all this, but then I thought I'd post here, so everyone could labor through this (and also to keep the Schultz brothers from filing for a restraining order to keep me from calling constantly).

 BTW, I got a shipment confirmation from VD. No details were provided as to the contents, but as I've only got an order placed for the Nite AC cords, what else could it be? This is considerably ahead of schedule. Pretty awesome. Perhaps Rick has hired neighborhood kids to help with production?


----------



## DarkAngel

Next


----------



## DarkAngel

I think you know what I did with my UO..............
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In my system the UO softened the treble, like a rounding of the spires, or rose colored glasses. Robbed me of slight amount of treble sparkle and dynamic attack, soundstage was slightly smaller also..........needless to say it was sold.

 I think you really have to try different things in your own system,
 hard to make universal statement because of all the variables.


----------



## bkelly

John,

 How about leaving the VA out of the system for long enought that our components get happy together without it.


----------



## bkelly

Friends,

 There has been so little activity at this site in the last couple of days that I can only imagine that Mark, DarkAngel, John and now Carl are all out waiting by their mail boxes for thier Nite cables to come in.

 Talk soon.





 Thanks
 Brian


----------



## DarkAngel

I just bought a 1 meter used pair of Analysis Plus Silver Oval ICs at Audiogon (I think).............had a little trouble understanding sellers English when I spoke to him on the phone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Waiting for him to e-mail me his address so I can send payment
 Monday. This could work very well with my Silver Oval speaker cables.


----------



## Calanctus

What a thread!

 I'm just in the process of putting together my first serious system (I've got 3 pr of good headphones but have been running them out of my computer soundcard), including speakers, good CD player and pre/amp. The lot should cost a bit over $5000.

 I was slightly interested in upgraded power cords, so a friend offered to sell me his 2 unused Audiodyne cords for $50 apiece. When I saw him again, he said that he had reconsidered, and wanted $100 each. I told him I would think about it... and came home to do some research on what I could get for $100 a cord.

 Heh! he did me a big favour by raising the price! To make a long story short, I've now read this entire thread and will be calling VD on Monday. The Audiodynes will stay with him.

 My only question at this point is whether to start off with the VD Power 3 and try how I like it, or get something better right away. With my system I will only need 2 power cords to start.


----------



## pigmode

Calanctus,

 If you are purchasing the entire system all at once (as I did recently), my suggestions would be to set aside a very modest portion for cables. This way, you will maximize the quality of your components, and as you become intimately familiar with their sound characteristics, the upgrading of cables will be the final refinement. 

 If you go for the gold at the start, you will not have a clear understanding of what you have, except that based on the faith of others' impressions. With cables, system synergy is especially important. No one else has your ears, tastes, or listening environment.


----------



## markl

Quote:


 The knock on VD cables in general (not the pc's) has been their "thin" sound, including the Nite digital... Please keep us informed. 
 

Wow, my experience is just the opposite. These are the antithesis of "thin-sounding" in my system, and that's a good deal of what makes them so great.

  Quote:


 Now the bad stuff: with the UO out of the circuit, music seemed more veiled, less clear. I really do think there is something to PS Audio's claims regarding the 40db reduction in noise and grunge. There was more brightness, more clarity with the UO in the path. When I took it out, the treble seemed to drop a db or two. This was actually not bad on poor-sounding recordings. Still not sure whether this is good or bad on well-recorded material. However, I noticed that whenever I put the UO back into the circuit, the musical picture became more disjointed again; the new-found clarity kind of took away from the music, and things didn't flow as well. I seem to enjoy the music more with the UO out of the circuit, even if things are a little duller than I had gotten used to before. I'm going to keep playing with it. 
 

JA, could the apparent decrease in treble actually be a removal of "hash" or nasties potentially introduced by the UO? Your results seem almost counter-intuitive: i would have expected that going straight to the wall would have "opened up" the sound rather than "damping it down". You'd think a power conditioner would restrict dynamics and going straight to the wall would allow more juice to flow. 
 Also, I wonder if burn-in must begin anew when you go straight to the wall after having it burned in to the power conditioner? What do you think?

  Quote:


 There has been so little activity at this site in the last couple of days that I can only imagine that Mark, DarkAngel, John and now Carl are all out waiting by their mail boxes for thier Nite cables to come in. 
 

Mine shipped on 7/26. Should hopefully have it end of next week!

  Quote:


 I'm just in the process of putting together my first serious system (I've got 3 pr of good headphones but have been running them out of my computer soundcard), including speakers, good CD player and pre/amp. The lot should cost a bit over $5000. My only question at this point is whether to start off with the VD Power 3 and try how I like it, or get something better right away. With my system I will only need 2 power cords to start. 
 

First, what components are you buying for the system, and which ones have IEC receptacles for aftermarket cords? I think the answer to your question depends on what gear we're talking about. VD sez (and others here seem to concur) that digital sources benefit most from power cord upgrades. In other words, if you bought two different VD cables, your better power cord should go on your source, the lesser one on the amp/pre-amp.

 markl


----------



## dhwilkin

Quote:


 markl said...

 VD sez (and others here seem to concur) that digital sources benefit most from power cord upgrades. In other words, if you bought two different VD cables, your better power cord should go on your source, the lesser one on the amp/pre-amp. 
 

That seems counter-intuitive to me. I would think the amp would be the most power-hungry and power-dependent component. Not that I doubt your results, I'm just wondering why the source should benefit the most?


----------



## markl

dhwilkin,
 I totally agree. I would have thought that power-hungry HT amps would benefit the most, but it seems its CDP/sources do for whatever reason.

 markl


----------



## pigmode

Why would an amp be more power dependent than a source? Don't they both run on electicity, or do these cables flow more juice than cheapie cables?


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
* 

 First, what components are you buying for the system, and which ones have IEC receptacles for aftermarket cords? I think the answer to your question depends on what gear we're talking about. VD sez (and others here seem to concur) that digital sources benefit most from power cord upgrades. In other words, if you bought two different VD cables, your better power cord should go on your source, the lesser one on the amp/pre-amp.
* 
 

Preamplification and amplification will be via Marantz SR9200 receiver (their top of the line). Digital source will be Sony XA777ES. I have the Marantz and it does accept after market cords, and I believe the Sony does as well.

 Calanctus


----------



## markl

Calanctus,
 With components like those, I'd start at the Audition level. 

 markl


----------



## bkelly

Calanctus,

 I know that reciever. It's a good one! I also agree with Mark go with and Audition, at least. More if you can afford it because in my experience the VD power cables keep on improving all they way up to the top. They don't seem to require the best electronics to show a substantial gain althought I am sure they work even better on the very best equipment. You'll have to decide on the balance you want in terms of equipment and cash outlay. 

 Is there a Headpone amp on that reciever or do you have a stand alone headphone amp?

 As far as why you would use the VD cables on the CDP rather than the amp I am going to guess that it would be in order to reduce any noise or distortion prior to sending it to the amps where it would get amplified just like everything else. That is just my uneducated opinion but it does sound right, don't you think?


----------



## elybry

I agree start with the audition. I started with the power 2 and was amazed at the difference, the only downfall is the stiffness. I believe the audition is more flexible, easier to work with. It also depends on how neuro you are going to be about upgrading - if this sounds this good, then what will the next level sound like. Then you have to figure how far to stretch your budget. I was listening today with my brother and his wife. They both were able to hear the improvement over a hospital grade cord. More musical, the spacial orientation of the instruments was significantly better, the timbre, the detail, the bass, the vocals - all much, much better. All this on 10 yr old book shelf Jamo speakers.

 Now awaiting the nite.

 Carl


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by bkelly _
*
 Is there a Headpone amp on that reciever or do you have a stand alone headphone amp?
* 
 

I've got an Earmax Pro, which does not accept aftermarket power cords 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . And I'm not about to try any 'surgery' on it.

 Any owners of the Audition level cord: Can you confirm that the Audition cord is more flexible and easier to work with than the lower level VD products?

 Calanctus


----------



## bkelly

I've owned everything from Power Two to the Refernece, Audition and Nite and I can tell you for a fact that the Audition is more flexible than the earlier models but none of the VD stuff can really be considered really flexible. It's tuff stuff but easier to manage than some peole make it out to be. You just need to form it befiore you get ready to install it. Also, once it's in there it done, you'll never have to worry about it again.

 It's pretty too!


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*

 I think you know how they sound from the Varial ICs. Very tight detailed controlled bass, and great treble extension, this is a fast sounding cord. The VDs are somehow better at 3D presentation but Mother still very good here. When I used all Mother cords my system was lean with a bit too much treble emphasis, seems too analytical. Depending on my ICs used I like to sometimes use a Mother cord with my VD References to further tighten bass and extend treble.

* 
 

DA,
 I have one Mother PC connected to the cdp, and to tell you the truth, it has much more treble extension than the Varials. There is about 22 hours on it right now, and if it doesn't smoothen out considerably I may have to look for something else. The Mother has other traits such that I am going to give it at least 80 hr. to reveal itself.

 Any suggestions for other great PCs that are reasonably flexible, and are not bright? My system is on delicate edge as far as HF extension is concerned.


----------



## JohnActon

Hi Mark,

 You raise some very interesting points regarding my experiences with the Ultimate Outlet. Yep, I do think the UO was limiting dynamics slightly (despite PS Audio's contrarian claim). But when it comes to the slight loss in clarity/detail with the UO out of the circuit, your guess is as good as mine. Either the UO really was filtering some grunge out of my line, thereby allowing me to hear more of the (especially treble) details, or, like you said, the UO was somehow coloring the sound. Honestly, I'll probably never know for sure. I do know that music sounds a little smoother, a little more dynamic and a little more cohesive with the UO out of the circuit. I'm going to leave it out for now. 

 The only question is, what the heck do I do with the third (extra) Reference AC cord? Hmmmm... I'm actually thinking about sending it to Kelly; I'd love to hear what he thinks of it (especially on his modded '777ES, whenever he gets it back). 

 As for VD's recommendation that the best cables be utilized with one's source components, the reason is simple: everything starts at the source, thus you want the cleanest, most transparent signals you can get, right from the beginning. The old adage "garbage in, garbage out" is very relevant in this situation; if the signal coming from the source isn't the best, then nothing will be able to clean it up down the line. Putting a Nite cord on an amp while putting a Power 3 cord on the upstream CD player is counter-intuitive; the Nite cord will be limited by the Power 3 cord upstream. This is not to malign the (reputedly excellent) Power 3 cord, rather I'm saying that greater benefits would be realized by using the Nite on the CD player and Power 3 on the amp. I would imagine if you ask them, the guys at VD would respond that the hierarchy of component importance is source, preamp, amp (in that order) in regards to cabling. 

 Looking forward to the Nites!!!


----------



## kelly

(Does anyone else think VD should make glow-in-the-dark versions of their high end cables and call them Neon Nites? Maybe it's just me.)

 John
 Would love to audition but wouldn't be able to buy it off of you no matter how much I liked it.

 I'm curious--but do any of you use any kind of surge suppressor? (Am I the only one concerned about that?) It's disheartening to hear the Ultimate Outlet contributing a quality you dislike to your rig. A part of me always wonders whether the Brick Wall I have might be doing the same thing--and another part of me wants to say it doesn't matter because I'm not willing to plug my equipment in without it.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by kelly _
 [B/]I'm curious--but do any of you use any kind of surge suppressor? (Am I the only one concerned about that?) It's disheartening to hear the Ultimate Outlet contributing a quality you dislike to your rig. A part of me always wonders whether the Brick Wall I have might be doing the same thing--and another part of me wants to say it doesn't matter because I'm not willing to plug my equipment in without it. [/B] 
 

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I have mentioned several times here and posted pictures about the Monster HTS2000 and Audioprism Quietlines II (set of 8)...........for me this sounds noticeably better than PS Audio UO or Brickwall, both of which have received great reviews elsewhere.

 This is the same unit that blew away Robert Harley in TAS a few years ago for good reason, the Quietlines II take it to another level. (note other Monsters don't sound as good as this unit)
 Anything better will cost much, much more.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*I have one Mother PC connected to the cdp, and to tell you the truth, it has much more treble extension than the Varials. There is about 22 hours on it right now, and if it doesn't smoothen out considerably I may have to look for something else. The Mother has other traits such that I am going to give it at least 80 hr. to reveal itself.
 Any suggestions for other great PCs that are reasonably flexible, and are not bright? My system is on delicate edge as far as HF extension is concerned. * 
 

That just amplifies what we have been saying in this thread, that AC cords have more dramatic effect on sound than any other cables in your system.......believe it or not. I really think you should get a VD Reference Cryo, can be easily bent to shape and installed, not as much hassle as it sounds. These are much easier to handle than cheaper VD P3 and P2 cords. I think they are almost unbeatable for the factory direct price.

 BTW we must give props to ZU service, you get 60 day trail for cables and when they are returned your visa is credited in 1 day.
 Compare this to the poor service Headroom offers, I am still waiting 2 month's now to get refund on $90 extension cable!


----------



## kelly

DA,
 What sound qualities were different when comparing the Monster to the Brick Wall?

 From what I have read, I'm not sure I could be persuaded to switch, since I've convinced myself that the Brick Wall actually offers some level of protection.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by kelly _
*DA, What sound qualities were different when comparing the Monster to the Brick Wall?
 From what I have read, I'm not sure I could be persuaded to switch, since I've convinced myself that the Brick Wall actually offers some level of protection. * 
 

Well if your main concern is protection vs sound improvement you should stick with Brickwall, of course the Monster 2000 also offfers some protection. In my system Brickwall produced similar results to UO, softened treble which restricted dynamics a bit. Also 3D soundstage sounded smaller vs Monster/Quietlines.
 If you do search at AA you will see similar comments from members with higher end gear who have tried many conditioners.

 Some people may like this softer sound with slightly rolled treble,
 could be system dependent. Also it takes careful listening to discern because when noise/hash is removed sound may initially sound restricted, but is actually more detailed emerging from blacker background. However some conditioners can indeed restrict dynamics so careful auditioning is required.


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 What are Quietlines?




 Best
 Brian


----------



## markl

kelly,
 I have my cords plugged into a Monster HTS1100, the newer version of the 2000. The 1100/2100 have improved surge protection over earlier models, plus the filtering/power conditioning has been updated. DA compared a 2100 to his 2000 and felt the 2000 sounded better, though.

 So, again, my results were obtained with a power conditioner despite potentially better benefits from going straight to the wall.

 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Audioprism Quietlines II 
 They are small shunt filters you place in unused outlet of a wall duplex to create zone of quiet around stereo. You also place on outlets of appliances that generate noise like refrigerator, computer, TV etc. You can get set of 8 for less than $200.

 You can see one in use on my stereo system outlet:
Audioprism Quietlines II


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*
 That just amplifies what we have been saying in this thread, that AC cords have more dramatic effect on sound than any other cables in your system.......believe it or not. I really think you should get a VD Reference Cryo, can be easily bent to shape and installed, not as much hassle as it sounds. These are much easier to handle than cheaper VD P3 and P2 cords. I think they are almost unbeatable for the factory direct price.

 BTW we must give props to ZU service, you get 60 day trail for cables and when they are returned your visa is credited in 1 day.
 Compare this to the poor service Headroom offers, I am still waiting 2 month's now to get refund on $90 extension cable! * 
 

Actually, I had a stronger effect switching the Appassionata in and out, although the Mother brought a level of refinement that took me by suprise. So you think the VD Reference has a smoother treble that the Mother?


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 Thanks for the info. How good are these things?




 Thanks
 Brian


----------



## DarkAngel

PM
 I think the Mother produces more treble energy vs VD Reference Cryo, therefore Mother produces a faster, leaner, tighter sound. I prefer the VD Reference tonal balance in my system, fuller, richer more natural sounding. Also it produces a bigger 3D soundstage vs Mother or any other AC cord I have heard at this price level. It is so strong in this area of performance that other cables I have heard at this price just are not in the same class IMO.

 If your system leans to being slightly warm and has soft or fat bass, the Mother may be just the right match. This may be good match for some tube or mosfet gear.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by bkelly _
*Dark Angel,
 Thanks for the info. How good are these things?
 Thanks
 Brian * 
 

They are "no brainer" good for me, great bang for the audio buck. 
 I can detect no negative trade-off when used (restricted dynamics etc) everything sounds better, Monster 2000/Quietlines gives me very clean grain free extended treble vs other units I have tried which tended to soften/roll-off treble. If you want 2nd opinion I believe Hirsch also got some of these same time I did.


----------



## bkelly

Friends,

 Well I am finally ready to make a few comments about the performance of the Nite Series interconnects First off, I should say that I really like my system now and that the reason I haven't been doing nitely sessions of critical listening is that Id' much rather listen to music.

 As most of you already know simply changing from a Reference cable to a Nite Series cable in my system (I still have other VD cables in my system) was the Holy Grail for me. It was the biggest audio improvement I have ever heard in any system I have ever owned. Nothing could have prepared me for that much of a boost. Since I was already familiar with several of the VD cables in my own sytem I was only expecting an improvement in the same degree or slightly better than I had experienced with their other cables. However what I got was more like a transformation! My system just woke up somehow. It really became ACTIVE in a big way. It was no longer just clean, clear and acceptable sounding it was really happening.

 I have no idea why this happend or how it was accomplished but everyone who has heard the system since has been quickly impressed. It really is that obvious. You don't have to AB it with anything . If you heard my sytem a month before and walked in the room a month later you would know instantly that I had done something significant. 
 So, I was so happy and so sure that I was at or near the top of what my system could ever possibly hope to do I thought the interconnects were probably a waste of time. I could have sent them back without even trying them I was so happy with my sytem after the Nite Power was installed.

 Finally I put in the IC's and low and behold there was an improvement. It was not however anything like the degree I experienced with the power cable. It was also very much like upgrading the earlier power cables in that rather than improve anything or add anything they specifically they just strengthened what was already happening. The only noticeable special improvements I could hear that could be attributable to the IC's was a larger and warmer midrange and a somewhat tighter bass (by this point though the bass is pretty freaking tight, though). Overall the sytem with the IC's installed has an easier feeling to it just like it's no big deal to sound good and even at loud volumes it doesn't break into a sweat.

 I will add that from what I've said to Rick about my experience he said he was kind of surprised at how much improvement I got with the power cable swap alone and he felt that the IC addition should have been bigger.

 Me, I just know what I know.

 My wife says I am very contrary so maybe that's it.

 I do plan to keep on going in the Nite Series though until everything is Nite. Speaker cables and all. It will take awhile but it will happen. 

 I hope you guys find this helpful. It will be very interesting to see what happens in each of your systems with the addition of the Nite Power. If it's like what happened in mine -- lookout!




 Best
 Brian


----------



## DarkAngel

BK
 How are you going to "make things right" with you loving wife after spending all this money on cables? Has there been some hints dropped..........
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sounds like your VD IC experience is half way between mine and Mark (although you had the Nite) Mark was "extremely" impressed
 I was only "mildly" impressed and thought other companies ICs I had for the same price were as good or better. Of course all three of us have different levels of existing ICs we are comparing the VDs to.

 We both agree that the VD AC cords make much more dramatic improvement vs VD ICs..........for that reason I am more than ready for that Nite cord to arrive.


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 I'm sure you have had this happen to you before where you are just going along in life and all of a sudden you just fall right into the groove. Everything seems to go right for you for no apparent reason. Lately, this is how my life has been. No need to envy me becasue, as you know already know, these things don't last.

 Well I did spend a lot of unexpected money on stereo equipment as you know and truthfully my wife never said anything desparaging about it so, when I recently came into a rather significant sum of money (almost as much as I spent on the audio gear) unexpectaedly I spent most of it on things for my wife including a fairly exotic leather couch. I did order another Nite Series Power cable, though.

 As far as our experiences go with the VD cables I still have to repeat myself that the Nite Power was a unexpected leap forward. It was truly the audio equivalent of the Cinderalla effect. Whether or not I could get similar effects using other interconnects as opposed to the Nites is something that any of us would naturally consider primarilly due to the price of the Nite IC's. In think I am a little squemish on this one though for a couple of reasons. The first is that I am extremely pleased with my system the way it is a to much. The second is psychological in that if I did change to another brand I would always wonder if those other cables were really working in harmony with the VD cables especailly when you consider that the VD stuff is supposed to be a proprietary technology. The third is rather more personal and if you like you can add this factor into anything I have say about VD's offerings and that is that I like Rick and Brett very much personally and I do feel a certain loyalty to them and, as a result, I would be a little reluctant to shop elsewhere as long as I am satisfied with them. Fourth is I think VD is way out front on this cable stuff and that's where I want to be with my system.

 Needless to say, if you find something better email me right away.

 As far as my feelings for Rick and Brett goes and whether or not it would cloud my view of their cables I need to say that, in general, I am a very loyal person to everyone who is close to me. But, that would also go for the people at Head-Fi and particularly those invloved in this thread. I can't imagine deceiving anyone and I do the very best I can to be truthful and fair to everyone concerned. 

 That reminds me I forgot to estimate the degree of improvement I experienced with the IC's added in. Last night I likened it to the experience of moving up one level in the earlier power cables. I used this analogy because of the close family connection in the sound of those products (hopefully that makes sense to everyone). What I need to add is that if a jump like that would be 100% the addition of the Nite IC's to the Nite Power was more like an improvement of 40% to 60% in my system. And as I said in my erlier comments it seemed to solidify the other improvemnts more so than add additional improvements. Althought there are those additional improvements to. Number one was a bigger and more realistic sounding mid-range.


----------



## pigmode

I ordered a Ref AC. It's gonna take a looong time to get here though, coming from Canada.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*I ordered a Ref AC. It's gonna take a looong time to get here though, coming from Canada. * 
 

VD will ship by Fedex for a little more green, may be worth it in your case. This may not be your last call to Canada once you hear what the Reference Cryo does for your sound.


----------



## Calanctus

I spoke to VD on the phone and, at Rick's suggestion, ordered something not listed on their website: the Power 1 cord. I understand that this is something new. Rick said that it was better than the Audition cord (though not Nite-level). I anticipate it will take some time to get here, but when it does and I've had a chance to let my system burn in again (as Rick suggests it will), I'll post some impressions.


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*
 This may not be your last call to Canada once you hear what the Reference Cryo does for your sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



* 
 

I like that!

 Calanctus,
 Any info on the power one? How is it priced compared to the Ref, and the Nite?


----------



## acidtripwow

Woohoo, my Nite digital cable shipped today. I hope to have it by the weekend.


----------



## Calanctus

It seems that the Power One is, or will be, priced similarly to the Audition but will include some of the techniques used in the Nite cable.


----------



## DarkAngel

PM
 How is your Zu Mother doing, I think I will keep one since they are very good and can be used to tune sound by tightening up sound and extending treble. I would have been really excited by them if I didn't have the VD Reference Cryo..........but that has really raised the bar now for other AC cords in that price range
 can do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Nite AC Cryo shipped Monday so eta is this Friday or Monday


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*PM
 How is your Zu Mother doing, I think I will keep one since they are very good and can be used to tune sound by tightening up sound and extending treble. I would have been really excited by them if I didn't have the VD Reference Cryo..........but that has really raised the bar now for other AC cords in that price range
 can do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




* 
 


 I agree with your description of the Mother. To that I would say that it also adds a blacker background, increased air and space around instruments, and better defined imaging. In short, it is a great PC worthy of my system except for a slightly excessive amount of HF extension. It basically renders many of my less than excellent CDs in a somewhat unforgiving manner.


----------



## JohnActon

What's this? Rick and Brett have "secret" powercords? Rumor has it that when you call, you have to give the correct password (the phrase "petunia, whistle, groundhog, cryo, sneeze") before they'll even admit to knowing about these new cords. You think the Power 1 is cool? They're working on a new cord called the "Good Night". It uses their newest technology - stealth conductors. When you open it, the box is empty. After "hooking up" this cord, reportedly the biggest advantage over their previous designs is the sheer silence; the blacks are blacker - you hear absolutely nothing. Wow, talk about a lowered noise floor! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 DarkAngel, I took your advice - I now own three of the Mapleshade Ultimate Triplepoints (same as the Heafyfoots you have, with the addition of three tiny points on the base). They're supposed to be better (?), but the reason I got 'em is 'cause that's all the guy had (he's a local dealer of Mapleshade stuff). 

 They're big and brass and heavy. They were a pain in the ASS to install under my 35 pound Cary player. Still, once they were in and positioned correctly, I did hear some improvements. The bass seemed to be a little tighter, and the soundstaging was a little more open and images were a little more focused. Basically, things just sound a little cleaner. I'm going to keep playing with them, though, just to make sure I'm not "hearing" things I want to (aka the placebo effect). The improvements are certainly not as significant as say, utlilizing the VD AC cords. Of course, they cost a lot less. I like what they're doing, and I may buy some for use under my amp. 

 After the Nite cords come, I'm done for awhile. My wallet needs some alone time to recuperate. 

 My Nites should be here in the next couple of days. Looking forward to it. I'm overwhelmingly pleased with the References; if the Nites are that much better than the References, I swear to God I'll probably start crying or something. DA, Mark - it sounds like yours should be arriving any day now too. That's good, as I think Brian is starting to get a bit lonely, what with being the only kid on the block with over a grand invested in power cords.


----------



## eric343

My tweak results: When I put in my DIY ultra-absorbing Vibration Tested(tm) Sorbo-Tempurpedic feet under my CDP, I heard Absolutely No Difference Whatsoever(tm).

 When I put in a Quail power cord, my results were much the same as JohnActon's with his feet. Nothing I couldn't write off as placebo.

 We'll see after I finish doing a DIY Quail-based triple-shielded power cord... 

 *note: It looks like VD doesn't have a flexible powercord to fit my budget, so DIY To The Rescue(tm)! Also, the UVTST feet are made out of a layer of Tempurpedic mattress material with a sorbothane square separating them from the mattress, with a band of scotch tape holding the whole deal together and compressing it a bit. I tested them by using a loud and rather vibrating muffin fan; I placed the fan on the surface of a benchtop power supply along with a vibration sensor (which was hooked up to the 'scope). I then put the UVTST foot between the sensor and the (vibrating) power supply case. The foot attenuated almost completely the vibrations. The vibrations caused by the fan seemed to be similar to what one might expect a CD transport to give out, except they were MUCH stronger.


----------



## pigmode

(Sigh) While I'm highly intrigued by all the comments on the Nite so far, I think they are a bit over the top for my modest system. I may have to pass this way again after further upgrades in other areas.


----------



## DarkAngel

JA
 I didn't know dealers sold Mapleshade cones, I thought they were all sold direct. I think you will like them more and more as you get used to their effect, I use heavyfoot or surefoot cones under all gear. Try putting one cone directly under CD tray where center of motor would be. You can finish the job by getting a set of brass heavy hats for $27 which set on top of gear to damp resonance/vibration.
Heavyhats 
 Of course you could also get the 2" solid maple slab to set CDP on
 15x18x2 unfinished costs $75, if I had enough room I would try one.

 BTW, my deal went through on used Analysis Plus Silver Oval ICs
 and I will have them Monday........love Audiogon for us cable addicts.


----------



## markl

My Nite Series is here! Just installed her on my source and she's burning in for a few hours before I listen. More to come.

 markl


----------



## JohnActon

Woohoo! My Nite cords just showed up too. They look really cool. A kind of "glow-in-the-dark" looking silver. 

 I'm going to wait until tomorrow to actually install them. Today's going to be Reference day; I'm going to listen critically, and then listen again tomorrow just before switching over to the Nite stuff. I want to make sure I really have a handle on the differences between the two models. Of course, when it comes to things audiophilia-related, I have the self-restraint of a heroin addict, so we'll see if I can stick to this. Either way, I'll post my initial impressions after I listen to 'em.


----------



## acidtripwow

Hey, my Nite digital cable just arrived too. Holy crap, is this thing huge!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's silver mesh that is about an inch thick. Just try to picture RCA connections on the end of the VD power cords and you'll get the picture. I'll try it out tonight and posts some thoughts in another thread. I will also post some pics. You have to see this thing.


----------



## bkelly

Damn! Where is my new Nite Power.

 It won't take you a couple of hours to figure out what is going on. You'll know in fifteen minutes! Yyou'll spend the rest of the time trying to tear yourself away long enough to comment here on thisn thread.

 I wonder if anyone else got theirs?






 Best
 Brian


----------



## bkelly

Mark.

 Where you at?. Check in, please. I am waiting anxiously to hear your comments.



 Best
 Brian


----------



## eric343

I guess he's just hooked it up and gotten, er, hooked.


----------



## audioman

I am new to this forum and looking to the various reviews to help me make a final decision on the Nite Series Power Cords, Speaker Cables and Interconnects. Talked to a couple of folks earlier and it sure sounds like they are truely the way to go. 

 It appears there are quite a few people waiting for or just recieving their Nite Series cables and I will be looking forward to their reviews 

 Steve


----------



## bkelly

Steve,

 Welcome. Don't I know you from, somewhere?

 We're anxiously awaiting commentary from Mark but I think he's in a trance.





 Thanks
 Brian


----------



## audioman

Maybe Mark was so impressed he is speechless...

 Steve


----------



## markl

Here I am. I haven't had enough time yet to fully form an opinion, and to figure out exactly what's going on, and it will be tomorrow before I get the chance to really sit down and do some serious listening. I do like what I hear so far. Gotta go...

 markl


----------



## bkelly

Sounds like Mark is letting his personal life get in the way of his obligations to all of us here at Head-Fi. His priorities are out of whack is the way I see it.

 I got my second Nite Series but I am not saying a word until I hear from you guys. Could be good or it could be bad but I'm not saying a word until I hear from the rest of the crew. Not a word. You heard me, not a word!

 Where is Carl, too. I hope he got all if his cables and hooked them up already. If he did he probably died and went to Hi-Fi Heaven. Least he went with his priorites in order.

 Dark Angel. You still with us?





 Best
 Brian


----------



## DarkAngel

Still waiting, should get Monday. How did JA and Mark get their cords before me......must have used Fedex. I will get some good photos posted of these beauties.

 I think I will hit the jackpot Monday and get:
 -VD Nite Cryo AC cord
 -Analysis Plus Silver Oval ICs (used from Audiogon)


----------



## audioman

Has anyone tried or ia anyone planning to try the full Nite series package?


----------



## markl

OK I'm back. The cable has about 20 hrs of burn-in on my Sony SCD-333ES SACDP with Modwright mods and Bybee filters, and I listened some yesterday I've been listening the entire afternoon today.

 As you will recall, I already owned the Signature cryo, which used to be VD's top-of-the-line cord before they intoduced the new Nite Series. I wasn't sure how much difference to expect between the two. Would the difference be audible to me? 

 Hell ya. With each step up I've taken in the VD power cord line, I continue to be amazed at how much more performance there is left to be squeezed out of the components I already own. How can the blackness of the background get any blacker? How can the instruments be separated any more? How can the sound get any more substantial? How can it sound more "real"? Surely there's no more detail to be retrieved from my favorite CDs, haven't I heard it all? Turns out I haven't. You can't really imagine what you're missing until you hear the next step up in the line.

 You may also recall that I said the Signature cryo over the Power 3 provided about 50% of the quantum leap that the Power 3 gave me over the stock cord. If I had to quantify the difference between the Nite Series and the Signature Cryo, I'd say it's equal to the difference between the Signature cryo and Power 3, if you follow. I'll try to illustrate:

 Stock cord----->----->----->----->Power 3----->----->Sig cryo----->----->Nite
 <-------------OH MY GOD--------------><-------WOW------><-------WOW------>

 In other words, I might have expected a larger leap between the Power 3 and the Sig Cryo (given that VD has the Power 2, Power 1, and Reference cords in between the Power 3 and Signature), and a much smaller one between the Sig cryo and the Nite Series (merely the next step up in the line). Don't get me wrong, the difference between the Sig cryo and the Power 3 is easily discernable and very very substantial (I mean look--- "WOW!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ). However, I detect that same impressive leap between the Sig cryo and the Nite Series. What this says to me is that the Nite Series really is a fundamentally different beastie than the rest, providing a much larger leap in performance than you'd expect by simply taking the next step up in the line. 

 To be more specific about the Nite, here's what I spy off the bat vs. the Sig cryo:
 The Nite Series is even "clearer" and more "open" sounding than the Sig, and much more dynamic. The Nite has more "bite" and stronger "attack" than the Sig cryo. Detail retrieval and resolution is improved quite a bit, too. The range of sound presented (frequency response) seems to be even wider with the Nite. Talk about black backround-- they didn't choose the name of this cable by accident! A result of the blacker background is even better 3D soundstaging that the VD cords have become known for here. It's hard to think of any area of the sound that *isn't* improved by the Nite. 

 So, thumbs up, way way up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 markl


----------



## pigmode

Seems like you're in serious need of a new source.


----------



## eric343

Markl: The Marantz SA-1 is calling... 

 ... or better yet, there's this company called "Accuphase"


----------



## pigmode

Well, being that he's a Sony guy, the 777 seems a natch.


----------



## pigmode

Well, being that he's a Sony guy, the 777 seems a natch. That would be like a quantum leap given the claimed transparency of the Nites.


----------



## markl

For the record, I am not a "Sony guy". My allegiance is to good sound, period. If Daewoo made the R10, I'd buy it. If Radio Shack was behind SACD, I'd still support it because it's better than Redbook. If there was a better 5-disc SACD player than the 333ES from Teac, I'd have bought that.

 As it is, I'm confident my modified 333Es is the best 5-disc changer on the planet. From what I've read, the digital section of the 333 is substantially the same, if not identical to that of the SCD-1/777. Modwright upgraded the analog section, added a better power supply and added Bybee filters. Is it as good as the SCD-1? Probably not, but I bet it's not that far off.

 markl


----------



## pigmode

Mmmkay.


----------



## elybry

Hello everyone

 I am still awaiting my nite package. Rick called and said it would be shipped next week. For now, I have to make due with my stealth cables. Nothing new to add at this point. Will let all know when I receive them, because I know where my priorities should be. Keep those reviews and opinions coming.

 Carl


----------



## markl

BTW, we're gaining in post count on "My darkest desires soon to be fulfilled". Think we can take 'em? Only 300 more to go....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 markl


----------



## bkelly

Mark,

 Man! it was great to finally hear from you. Your impressions seem to mirror my own, too. I simply could not believe the amount of improvement I got from jumping up to the Nite Power and Nite Interconnects from the earlier cables (no put down on them either becasue we all said we thought they were state of the art).

 I put my second cable in tonight and I got another big jump. Not as big as the first but BIG and BETTER, too! I love this stuff. I've said it before but I need to repeat it, "the VD stuff (particularly the Nite) is the most impressive audio device I have ever experienced in any system I have ever owned personally.

 Talk soon.





 Best
 Brian


----------



## bkelly

Mark,

 Yeah, we can take the other thread because I think we are jsut gettingt warmed up.





 Best
 Brian


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by elybry _
*Hello everyone
 I am still awaiting my nite package. Rick called and said it would be shipped next week. For now, I have to make due with my stealth cables. Nothing new to add at this point. Will let all know when I receive them, because I know where my priorities should be. Keep those reviews and opinions coming.
 Carl * 
 

Carl, what exactly is included in you Nite "package" and how many cables/cords do you need. Didn't you want to try one of the Nite cables before ordering the whole package? You will be the first person here to get Nite speaker cables, what are you using there now? Keep us posted.

 BK
 I have lost count, how many Nite cables/cords do you have now?
 Any problems with IC size/stiffness when installing?

 Yes, my beloved "dark" thread views will be surpassed because there are so few who participate, still have a ways to go to surpass actual posts.

 Mark
 Next time you go to Headroom meeting, roadshow etc you should take your Nite AC cord. I could not go to any show, but know when talking to Todd on phone they don't believe AC cords affect their gear............I was told "AC cords can have some effect on large power amps, but our headphone amps use so little power
 that AC cords don't matter and they think their generic cheapie AC cord sounds great and can't really be improved.


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 I now have two Nite Power cable and I need one more for the power amp. I'm going to try and work out a deal with Rick and Brett today. They have been very good to me and will take my earlier cables back in trade so if I send my Refernce back maybe I can afford another Nite Power.

 Todd may be at least partially right becasue the VD cables have a seemingly larger effect on my speaker system than they do on my headphone setup. Still they make a diffeence on the Melos, too and I will eventully get one for that amp also. I want to finish out my main system in Nite first and with one more cable and a set of speaker cables I'm done. I'm broke too.

 I hope you love your VD cables as much as I do but I'm sure you will. 
 I really ook forward to hearing your comments -- hopefully by tonight.

 Where in the hell is JA?






 Best
 Brian


----------



## JohnActon

You rang? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry, I've been pretty busy and haven't been able to get to Head-fi for more than a few minutes at a time over the last couple of days. The reason I haven't chimed in on the Nite cables is that I haven't been able to really sit down and listen much yet. I will try to do so tonight, or, at the latest, tomorrow sometime. 

 In the meantime, I will say that they were much easier to install than my References. Either they're a little more flexible, I've become a lot stronger (I'm going to test this by attempting to rip a phone book in half), or I'm starting to acquire the feng shui knack of working "with" the cable instead of "against" it. 

 Like I said, as soon as I get the chance to sit and listen to my system, I'll let y'all know what's what.


----------



## DarkAngel

*ChaaaaChinnnng! I hit the jackpot today!* 
 Just received Nite AC cord and Analysis Plus Silver Oval ICs, will get photos after work and install immediately in main system on CDP (replacing VD Reference Cryo). Listening begins tonight. This
 now frees up a VD Reference Cryo for my MOHR headphone amp.


----------



## DarkAngel

*Photos to Check Out* 

Nite AC 1 

AP Silver Oval ICs 

Nite AC 2 

 Will give some listening impressions tomorrow, hope they sound as good as they look


----------



## audioman

DarkAngel

 I've Never heard of these Silver Oval IC's. Have you tried the VD Nite series IC's or Speaker Cables (I wonder how they compare)

 Steve


----------



## Hirsch

I'm definitely behind the times. Still running the Power 3's that I got when this thread started


----------



## elybry

DA

 My nite series includes: 3 power cords, 2 ICs, 3 runs of speaker cable - one pair for the mains and a single run for the center channel. I decided to take the plunge and get the whole set so I did not have to put myself through misery waiting for each cable to arrive. I will probably need at least one more power cord, and a couple more ICs. Currently I have stealth silver cables - scr and cws - for my ICs and spectron remote sense speaker cable - designed to include the speaker cable in the feedback loop of the amp to theorectically negate any cable effect. We shall see. I was soo impressed with the power 2s over stealth's M21 power cable that I had originally decided on the reference series, but after talking to Rick I decided to go for it. 

 Carl


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by audioman _
*DarkAngel
 I've Never heard of these Silver Oval IC's. Have you tried the VD Nite series IC's or Speaker Cables (I wonder how they compare)
 Steve * 
 

They have been very widely reviewed many places, check stereotimes.com archives for past reviews of Analysis Plus Silver Oval IC. I have not tried VD Nite IC, but have owned VD Signature IC (which was sold), I seem to have a preference for silver ICs in my system now. If you check my profile you will see I own a few different ICs at any given time, next up is AZ Silver Reference.

*Hirsch* 
 You are way behind the curve, I realize that those Sony R10 did major damage to your wallet, but you must get some Reference Cryo AC cords, very noticeable step up from P3, P2. Join the party here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Carl* 
 I know what you mean about "slow misery" of buying cables one at a time, I think I've made 4-5 calls now to Canada. Keep us posted.

 PM
 Are you keeping those Zu Varial ICs and Mother AC cord? I know you have AZ Matrix, but have you tried AZ Silver Reference, used price has come back to planet earth at Audiogon, I must hear it in my system..........enquiring minds want to know.

*Nite AC* 
 Has been playing 24/7 since arriving yesterday, should get some serious listening today.


----------



## audioman

I am also considering an entire VD Nite package to just get this over with so I am looking forward to Carl's review.


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*

 PM
 Are you keeping those Zu Varial ICs and Mother AC cord? I know you have AZ Matrix, but have you tried AZ Silver Reference, used price has come back to planet earth at Audiogon, I must hear it in my system..........enquiring minds want to know.

* 
 

I've decided to settle with the Varials, and will not experiment till the next round of upgrades are finished (AC power, and tubed preamp), if at all. They have brought an unexpected level of balance and coherence to my system.

 The Mother has continued to burn-in and most of the sibilance has gone away. What is left is a very sweet tube sound with a rich and liquid midband, nice HF extension, and a fairly tight bass. Now I'm not saying that these are the characteristics of the Mother, because I think this is what my given component set is supposed to sound like. I'd describe it as transparency and speed.

 The VD Ref should arrive by weeks end, as should the PS juice bar.

 Sorry, no AZ Silver Ref.


----------



## audioman

Also wanted to ask if anyone can help with the balanced vs RCA interconnect issue. Talked to Rick and VD does not make balanced IC's. I am currently using (Synergistic Research Resolurion Reference active) balanced IC's for the Left, Right and Center Channels between my AVP2 and Amp 5. 

 Has anyone moved from balanced to rca to use the VD line? Any regrets?


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by audioman _
*Also wanted to ask if anyone can help with the balanced vs RCA interconnect issue. Talked to Rick and VD does not make balanced IC's. I am currently using (Synergistic Research Resolurion Reference active) balanced IC's for the Left, Right and Center Channels between my AVP2 and Amp 5. 
 Has anyone moved from balanced to rca to use the VD line? Any regrets? * 
 

I have always owned Musical Fidelity equipment and they have never offered balanced connections. But if your ICs are only 1-2 meters long any difference may not be noticeable. People claim the main advantage of balanced design is for ICs that are 5 meters and longer, like when you have side wall audio rack connecting to power amp on floor between speakers, balanced is supposed to be less prone to noise pick-up over long lengths.

 I have always wondered if there is audible difference between a 1 meter pair of RCA and balanced (XLR) ICs which are same design otherwise...........and if there is why don't more audio products offer balanced connections? Apparantly many audio companies feel there is no worthwile difference since balanced option is not offered. (although I'm sure this depends on how the product is designed as to whether noticeable improvement can be acheived)

 PM
 I think I mentioned to you earlier that I am keeping a couple Zu Mother AC cords around for my two systems.


----------



## JohnActon

audioman,

 I hear the Resolution Reference IC (especially with Active Shielding) is supposed to be quite amazing. How do you like it? Have you compared it to any other top-line cables? I auditioned the Designer's Reference .5 when I was looking for a nice interconnect, and actally preferred the Kimber Select KS-1030. However, it was a pretty close call, and the Synergistic did not have Active Shielding (the mini-couplers hadn't been introduced, and I couldn't afford the Master Coupler station). Does Active Shielding make a big difference?

 Brian, Mark, DA, 

 I've finally had a chance to listen to the Nite AC cords. I'm still going to do more listening before coughing up a full review, but here are my initial impressions. The Nites are a definite step up from the Reference cords, but the differeences aren't as great as moving from the stock cords to the References. The References really are great cords. 

 Having said that, the areas that the Nite cords really improve upon (to me) is treble extension (air) and soundstaging. The treble is more extended, with more air around instruments, but paradoxically, there is less brightness and glare to the sound. Things sound a little more real; a good analogy would be to compare digital with analog - CD sounds brighter, but really good analog presents more detail with less harshness. The Nites present "relaxed detail". Totally non-fatiguing. 

 Likewise, soundstaging is improved. Width and depth are both increased (height seems to remain unchanged). Sounds now appear to emanate from beyond the outer edges of my speakers (something I didn't think was possible in my small room). It's not tremendous, but there is a little more width. Depth is likewise better; the soundstage is deeper, but more importantly, the images are more layered - it's easier to place instruments. Lastly, soloing instruments and vocals are more dimensional, more real. The seem more solid, and the illusion that someone is singing or playing right in front of me is increased. 

 Bass appears to be the same, but the References were already very good in this regard. Also, dynamics appear to be better (it's subtle), but I think this is due to the increase in detail moreso than because of any actual betterment of dynamics. More research is needed. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 In short, they really are great cables. I'm going to keep playing with them for a little while, but it looks like the References are definitely going back to Virtual Dyanamics. Rick and Brett have created a truly excellent product. Thanks, guys! Also, my thanks to Mark for starting off this thread; I probably never would have discovered this stuff without you. I love you, man.


----------



## JohnActon

Brian, 

 As today is your birthday and all, what do you think the odds are that Rick and Brett would send you a free VD Nite AC cord to help you celebrate??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just a thought - after all, my birthday's coming up here in a few months.


----------



## bkelly

John,

 You put a pretty good scare into me. It took me about 40 seconds before I figured out how you new it was my birthday. For a minute there I thougt "Big Brother " was whatching.

 What about your Nite stuff. Let's here it. I know you 'bve been checking them, out.








 Thanks
 Brian


----------



## markl

"I love you, man."

 He he. Right back atcha big guy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad they worked out for you.

 Now that I have my Nite cable on my source, I was able to attach a Sig cryo to my Denon 5800 HT receiver, replacing the Power 3 cryo I had on there previously.

 I just got done screening Fellowship of the Ring on DVD (just came out today, big thumbs up), and OH MY GOD, the sound was insane! Maybe the soundtrack to the movie is one of the best ever, or maybe the sig cryo really added to the sound. Whatever, I was utterly blown away! Lucky my neighbors weren't around, that is one BASS-HEAVY mother of a movie. It made the 8" inch cones on my PSB Stratus Goldi's jump out like I've never seen before.

 The battle scenes are just phenomenal-- I felt like I was right in there with the Fellowship! I loved those books as a kid so it was quite a kick to see the first one so fully realized. 

 So, I'd say HT is another great use for these awesome cables!

 markl


----------



## bkelly

Johm, 

 Sorry, I didn't see your earleir post about the Nite Power. The only difference I see from my own experience is in degree. The Nite was a really big leap forward for me. Much more like what "markl" describes. Also, the soundstage increase rather noticably in heght.

 I also have another observation I have made before about the Nite Series and even on the earlier stuff and that is that my system has an electrostatic or ribbon like sound to it almost. Maybe it's because the sounds seems to come from places where there are no speakers. Do you experience that?

 Talk soon.



 Best
 Brian


----------



## bkelly

Mark,

 What are you doing for amps! I thought you were powerless.




 Brian


----------



## markl

Brian,
 The 5800 is a single-box receiver with the amp built in. Not *quite* as nice as the gear you have, but it's still got a surprising amount of juice!

 markl


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*


 The Mother has continued to burn-in and most of the sibilance has gone away. What is left is a very sweet tube sound with a rich and liquid midband, nice HF extension, and a fairly tight bass. Now I'm not saying that these are the characteristics of the Mother, because I think this is what my given component set is supposed to sound like. I'd describe it as transparency and speed.

 The VD Ref should arrive by weeks end, as should the PS juice bar.

 Sorry, no AZ Silver Ref. * 
 

I was in a rush this morninig, so I'll add a short addendum. I believe the Mother in addition to richening the midrange, has somehow closed off the soundstage. I definitey hear a noticeable loss of depth. 

 Anyway, it will be interesting when the VD Ref. arrives.


----------



## elybry

Quote:


 _Originally posted by audioman _
*Also wanted to ask if anyone can help with the balanced vs RCA interconnect issue. Talked to Rick and VD does not make balanced IC's. I am currently using (Synergistic Research Resolurion Reference active) balanced IC's for the Left, Right and Center Channels between my AVP2 and Amp 5. 

 Has anyone moved from balanced to rca to use the VD line? Any regrets? * 
 

audioman, DA

 I recently outfitted my HT system with xlr sealth cws and scr cables to connect the pre/pro to the amps - a spectron 2 channel and a bel canto 6 channel bridged into 3. I also obtained stealth rca ics for the connection of the other components. I did this because of the perception that xlr was a better way to connect. I have not compared the rca to xlr directly but was planning on doing that. Rick talks about the superiority of the rca. John Ulrich at spectron felt that xlr was the way to go. I don't know, but I will compare the nite rca's to the stealth xlr's and the rca's. Will let you know when it arrives. If the nite series makes as much of a difference as I am anticipating then there will be no question as to the switch to rca.

 Carl


----------



## audioman

> _Originally posted by JohnActon _
> *audioman,
> 
> I hear the Resolution Reference IC (especially with Active Shielding) is supposed to be quite amazing. How do you like it? Have you compared it to any other top-line cables? I auditioned the Designer's Reference .5 when I was looking for a nice interconnect, and actally preferred the Kimber Select KS-1030. However, it was a pretty close call, and the Synergistic did not have Active Shielding (the mini-couplers hadn't been introduced, and I couldn't afford the Master Coupler station). Does Active Shielding make a big difference?
> ...


----------



## pigmode

Here's an interesting discussion:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cab...ges/56393.html


----------



## audioman

I just bit the bullet and orderd the full nite series for my HT. I even more anxoius now than ever for reviews, especially on the IC's.


----------



## DarkAngel

*DA will keep the Nite AC cord* 
 Just talked to Ric, and purchased the Nite AC cord I had for trail. The Nite is installed on my CDP replacing a VD Reference. Also made arrangements to return my two P2 AC cords and get another Reference AC cord. This will allow me to have both Musical Fidelity amps using References cords vs P2 cords.

 I think I mostly agree with JA in his asessment, the Nite is a noticeable step up from Reference, but not really a huge advance.
 Tonally it sounds the same as Reference just does everything a bit better (which is quite an acheivement!) As you move up to the top VD cords you hear amazing detail retreval presented in a very natural, unforced way. I listen to recordings I have heard 50 times
 or more and hear new sounds revealed. The best way to descibe
 this recovery of fine detail and musical nuance is that what previously sounded like a single sound/note is now revealed to have leading edge, sustain, decay creating a new complexity and wealth of detail. I think there must be something to this "dynamic filtering" since it seems to be removing a distortion/smearing effect and reveals previously obscured details. All of this is acheived without any obvious tonal shifting, sound is balanced and natural in my system.

 The 3D soundstage again is massive, truely amazing and most impressive..........I love it! If you stereo is properly set up in a nearfield arrangement you get incredibly huge soundstage, the effect here is much more dramatic than any IC or speaker cable change I have ever heard, often has me doing a double take.
 I made my UPS man sit on the couch and listen for a minute,
 played some Tom Petty and his jaw literally dropped, he went on for a couple minutes ranting how real it sounded.......heh,heh.
 Again Nite does this just a little better vs Reference.

 So is the Nite worth the extra cost, obviously if money is no object
 go for it, a definite step up from Reference. But if you have more limited budget, I think the Reference gives the best bang for the buck for most people. Ric is offering good deal on the Nites currently, be sure and mention this thread.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by audioman _
*I just bit the bullet and orderd the full nite series for my HT. I even more anxoius now than ever for reviews, especially on the IC's. * 
 

OMG, what a bold move! Keep us posted, especially want to hear how Nites stack up vs SR Resolution Reference. I'm pretty sure the Nite AC cords will be very hard to beat.


----------



## elybry

The nites are shipping tomorrow!!! Will give feedback when they get here.

 Carl


----------



## DarkAngel

Carl
 I am sure you will find the Nite AC cord a "big" step up from your P2. The P2 is good introduction to VD cords and very competitive for its price, but the magic doesn't begin till you get one of the 3 cable designs like the Reference AC cord IMO. In my system I felt the P2 to be a bit warm sounding, lacking a bit of treble extension and the bass although deep was a bit soft and lacked full detail. You tend to overlook these slight shortcomings though because of the fabulous 3D soundstage the P2 provides.

 The Reference AC however hits on all cylinders correcting the slight shortcomings of P2, and providing the best bang for the buck in the VD AC cord line-up. The Nite AC cord is a real winner taking the Reference one step further yet at the same time sounding very smooth and natural.


----------



## audioman

Carl,

 Can't wait to hear the results, I ordered a similar package, 4 Nite PC's, 5 Nite IC's, 1 Nite Digital Cable, 1 Nite Sub cable and 3 Nite Bi Wire speaker cables for R, L, and C channels.

 I am hopefull that that is it for awhile and they sound as good in my setup as the many reviews. I am going to do a full swap all at once, and since Rick is putting them on the cable cooker, he tells me they only need 1 hour break in at hookup, but I think I will give them a couple of days anyway. I'm hoping for a major leap forward in sound, but we will see, as I already had very good (and expensive) PC's/IC's/Speaker wire in place soo....

 The Power 1 PC's I trialed do not seem to sound the same dynamicly as the active Resolution Reference, but it sounds like the Nites should make a big difference and overtake (I am hoping anyway). I just do not think I was comparing on an equal level.

 Steve


----------



## eric343

[size=medium]HOLY [censored]![/size] 

 That's a lotta Nites! Jeez...


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by audioman _
*
 The Power 1 PC's I trialed do not seem to sound the same dynamicly as the active Resolution Reference, but it sounds like the Nites should make a big difference and overtake (I am hoping anyway). I just do not think I was comparing on an equal level.

 Steve * 
 

Care to expand on your experience of the Power 1 PC's (I've got a couple on order...pretty paltry compared with your order I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )?


----------



## audioman

Dont get me wrong they (the power 1) are built extremly well and fit snuggly. I was so used to the sound of Synergistic Resolution Reference active power cords (but, I could not get them to stay connected so I returned them) sound quality wise they did not seem to compare, I lost bass response and it sounds bright. It may be bringing my system back to true reality, but, after talking over with Rick, it may be the different combinations of cables are part of the problem, and since I returned the all the Resolution Reference cables I needed to find another alternative, so I decided to give the full nite series a try including new speaker cables. 


 My hope is they will be a big step forward. If not then at least I can say I tried and on to plan C.

 Cant wait for Carls review.


----------



## JohnActon

Well, I did it - I called Rick today and arranged to have two of my Reference AC cords sent back for credit towards the Nite AC cords. The Nites are a significant step up from the References, and for me, they are worth the outlay of cash. 

 Upon further listening, I renege on my earlier assertion that there was no change in soundstage height; in addition to increased soundstage width and depth, there is a definite increase in the height of the soundstage (when present in the recording, sounds will appear to emanate from above the speakers). This is more noticeable on the Revel M20 monitors than on the Magnepan MG1.6/QR planars, perhaps because the Magnepans already have a very tall soundstage (being 5'6" in height). Also, as I mentioned before, the increase in detail is substantial, and yet this detail is paradoxically complemented by an increase in smoothness - less grain, less distortion. 

 I also got the chance to talk to Rick for the first time; he is a very nice guy and extremely knowledgeable - he really knows his stuff. Not only can he readily explain all the science behind his own cables, but he can expound at length upon the physics behind major competitors' cables. It was a very interesting discussion. I'm probably screwing this up, and my summation is almost childishly topical (for the sake of brevity, I'm leaving out lots o' stuff), but here is what I took away from our conversation: 

 Basically, Rick has, with his cables, attacked the one area that has been overlooked by other cable manufacturers - mechanical resonance. Electrical components (amps, CD players, etc) contain electronic parts (transformers, capacitors, etc) that vibrate mechanically as the flow of electrical current is passed through them. These mechanical by-products of operation can be manifested in several ways, the most common of which is heat. Manufacturers of these components do their best to mitigate these vibrations electrically, by separating transformers from other sensiteive circuits, etc. Rick comes at it from another angle - he attacks these mechanical resonances mechanically, via his cables. The dynamic filtering (combined with a clever use of Neodymium magnets) serves to dampen the mechanical resonances that are produced by these components. This is, of course, most successful in the Nite series, and the effects are cumulative in nature; one realizes more and more of these benefits as the they include more of the Nite products in their system (AC cords, IC's, speaker cables).

 Secondly, Rick believes in using large gauge solid-core construction in his cables (solid-core construction has been widely discounted by other major cable manufacturers in favor of multi-stranded geometries, due to the lower skin-effect inherent in such designs). Again though, Rick has, through the use of his other techniques, managed to realize the benefits that are theoretically ascribed to solid-core construction, while eliminating the skin-effect that is normally associated with these designs. 

 Thirdly, we discussed copper vs. silver as a conductor. Rick feels that copper is a much better and more linear conductor than silver. Silver has different rates of conductivity depending upon the frequency of the signal it is passing. At high frequencies, it is much faster than at low frequencies, to the point that it is faster at 20KHz than copper, and slower than copper at 60Hz. Because of this, there is an inherent hardness to the sound that cannot be totally abrogated no matter what design wizardy is employed. Rick comments that he has noticed this effect when listening with silver cables most plainly with female vocals, which really seem to exacerbate this phenomenon. 

 Pretty impressive, no? Well, I thought so, enough so that when I can scrounge up some cash, I may call him regarding the chance to try out the Nite IC and speaker cable offerings to see how they fare against my Kimber Select stuff. Now I'm very keen to hear from the guys who've ordered the complete Nite suite of cords to see how they sound.


----------



## Calanctus

Dang! My Power 1's aren't even here yet, but I already feel like upgrading to at least Reference level.


----------



## pigmode

My Reference AC should be in near the end of the week.

*Suprise* 
 It has the new 'Speed of Lite" technology, which I believe is to be found in the Nite series. Fun!


----------



## DarkAngel

JA
 Your will power is weak, you might as well call back now and get the Nite package deal......heh,heh.

 I think I will stick with Nite/Reference AC cord combo throughout system, since I have 5 AC cords all Nite gets very expensive. Also I will not be trading in my silver ICs for copper ones anytime soon,
 despite what VD research shows. I sold some cables this weekend at Audiogon, this week I will try to purchase used AZ Silver Reference for my "collection"

 PM
 Audioman
 Elybry
 Calanctus

 keep us posted on your progress.


----------



## andrzejpw

GOOD LORD! This thread is getting to be a MONSTER! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A question. I'm a big newbie at all of this. . . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 First, is the VD power cord still available for $50? 
 Secondly, where is it of most use? On the amp?


----------



## Calanctus

andrzejpw, the Power 3 seems to be going for $75 (promo offer on Audiogon ). 

 VD says, and other posters on this thread believe, that the most benefit is derived from connecting the PC to the digital source, rather than to the amp (of course a second cord for the amp is even better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).


----------



## JohnActon

DA,

 I can't AFFORD the Nite IC and speaker cable combo right now. Besides, I'm pretty damn happy right now. Sometimes I can't believe what the VD cords are doing for my sounsdstage - it's uncanny in its realism. At any rate, I'm content to not mess with it. Ummmm.... for at least another month, that is. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hey, you've been pretty mum regarding the Analysis Plus Silver Oval ICs (unless I missed your post). What do you think of 'em?

 Anybody received their Nite complete packages yet?


----------



## KR...

Holy Moly, all these posts for a powercord?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gosh, this board now truly feels like a real audiophile board 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


















 Ok,
 I'll stop thread crapping now... as you were gentle fellows!


----------



## JohnActon

Yes, it IS pretty crazy to have all this hoopla over power cords. But, you've gotta hear these things. It's not hype! They can have my Nite's when they pry them out of my cold, dead stereo.


----------



## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Calanctus _
*andrzejpw, the Power 3 seems to be going for $75 (promo offer on Audiogon ). * 
 

Inflation has hit us. When dcg and I got ours somewhere near the beginning of this thread, we were able to get them at $45, IIRC.


----------



## andrzejpw

Hmm, so used is the way to go now, eh? With you guys playing with your expensive cords. . .


----------



## andrzejpw

Hmm, ok, that's done. My denon 370 doesn't have a replaceable power cord. It just goes into the player.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by JohnActon _
*Hey, you've been pretty mum regarding the Analysis Plus Silver Oval ICs (unless I missed your post). What do you think of 'em?
* 
 

JA
 Don't want to hijack this thread too much, but the AP Silver Oval IC sounds very similar to AP Silver Oval speaker cables I have. (strange but 1 meter ICs cost more than 8ft speaker cable!)
 Am trying to get used AZ Silver Reference at Audiogon, then I can do detailed comparison: AZ Silver Reference vs HT ProSilway II vs AP Silver Oval. I will probably sell one of these three after comparing so my "collection" doesn't get too big. I think all three of these will be a notch above the inexpensive HomeGrown Silver Laces used in system 2.

 Did you get some Mapleshade heavy foot cones for your amp yet?
 Ric at VD told me he uses Sistrum Audio rack for his gear, notice that brass cones point up in this system:
Sistrum Audio Rack 

*P3 Cord for $50 and $75* 
 Original version version of P3 listed at Audiogon was $50 a few months ago. Then VD got the Cryo system, and the price for P3 Cryo version went up to $75 and should sound slightly better vs old P3.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

I would just like to ask how this thread got into the running for the Thread With the Most Replies--did Ricky pitch in or what?


----------



## DarkAngel

PM
 Did you see this recent thread at Cable Aslylum comparing various AC cords including VD Sigs and Zu Mother:
AC cords 
 That guy has some very expensive audio gear in his system.
 In my system overall I prefer the VD Reference vs Zu Mother, but I can see where many would like the Zu Mother. If I didn't have the VD Reference & Nite AC cords I would be very impressed with Zu Mothers compared with other AC cords I've tried.


----------



## JohnActon

DA, 

 Wow - that Sistrum rack/implement of torture looks like it really means business! Unfortunately, it's too rich for my blood. Yes, as soon as I get around to it, I think I'm going to order some additional Mapleshade cones for my amp.

 I also saw that VD-related thread over at the Asylum. It looks like VD is finally getting the exposure they deserve.

 Thanks for the info regarding the AP Silver Oval IC.


----------



## bkelly

Friends,

 Mycomputer is in the shop so I have been out of it for a few days. It's great to see the most recent posts. Keep at it! I'll check in from ti,e to time until I get my machine back.

 JA,

 Just like you my soundstage has grown in heigth. I cannot explain it but it is happening although it has diminished slightly over the last few weeks. Let me know if your height seems to settle in or change in any way. I'd be very interested to know. 

 Talk nsoon.





 Best
 Brian


----------



## DarkAngel

BK
 The guys at VD are at it again. I just recently traded my two P2s for a new Reference AC, and the new models have a reduced version of the SOL (speed of light) tech contained in the Nite series. This probably makes the new Reference about as good as the old Signature.............PM mentioned this briefly re his Reference he just ordered.

*OK, who has received their Nite package?*


----------



## 88Sound

In the past week I have received outlaw PCA interconnects, PSC digital cable, and 3 Virtual Dynamics Power 3 cords. None of this is broken in but the outlaws went in first and there was a noticeable but small immediate improvement in definition and soundstage over the AR's I was using before. Based on their cost I think these were worth the money.

 When I put the VD Power 3's in, even though they are not broken in I can only come up with this analogy. You are looking off in the distance and a person comes up to you and says "can you see ok?" you reply I can see just fine, I have 20/20 vision. He say's try these, and hands you a pair of glasses. To humor him you put them on and, WOW!, I thought I could see perfect before but now I can see better! A lot better.

 The power 3's are on my source (DV47-A) and the Grace 901, the 3rd Power 3 is waiting for a new amp which has not arrived yet.

 So I've gone from barely believing in good interconnects and believing that after market AC cords were a bunch of hype, to believing in both!

 And I wanted to post on what's likely to be the largest thread ever!


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by 88Sound _
*When I put the VD Power 3's in, even though they are not broken in I can only come up with this analogy. You are looking off in the distance and a person comes up to you and says "can you see ok?" you reply I can see just fine, I have 20/20 vision. He say's try these, and hands you a pair of glasses. To humor him you put them on and, WOW!, I though I could see perfect before but now I can see better! A lot better.

 The power 3's are on my source (DV47-A) and the Grace 901, the 3rd Power 3 is waiting for a new amp which has not arrived yet.

 So I've gone from barely believing in good interconnects and believing that after market AC cords were a bunch of hype, to believing in both!* 
 

Now you have to be wondering, how much better would those VD Audition AC cords sound......... heh,heh,heh


----------



## andrzejpw

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*
 Now you have to be wondering, how much better would those VD Audition AC cords sound......... heh,heh,heh * 
 

88Sound: I call dibs on the power cord when you sell it.


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*PM
 Did you see this recent thread at Cable Aslylum comparing various AC cords including VD Sigs and Zu Mother:
AC cords 
 That guy has some very expensive audio gear in his system.
 In my system overall I prefer the VD Reference vs Zu Mother, but I can see where many would like the Zu Mother. If I didn't have the VD Reference & Nite AC cords I would be very impressed with Zu Mothers compared with other AC cords I've tried. * 
 

DA,
 My system has gotten considerably sweeter in the midband, although at this point I'm not sure if its the Mother or the PS Audio JuiceBar. I've run across a couple of other posts concerning the Mother and a loss of depth which is what I am experiencing. 

 My Ref hasn't arrived yet believe it or not. I'm loosing faith fast, as this is the second foul up out of two seperate orders. 

 BTW, which AC cords are you running to your amp and source? What are your thoughts as to the importance or priority of AC cords to amplifiers?


----------



## DarkAngel

CDP - Nite AC
 DAC, Preamp, MOHR - Reference AC
 Amps (2) - Zu Mother
 I like to put best AC cord on CDP, and work down to amps last.

 I just recently traded in two P2 AC cords for another Reference AC, this will allow me to have Reference AC on both amps vs Zu Mother. I never really noticed any real negative 3D effects using Zu Mother in my system, the guy from AA post has really high end gear and preferred the JP max Gold & Zu Mothers vs many of the best AC cords around in the $500-1000 price range. For me the VD Nite/Reference is much better than the Mother or any other AC cord I have tried in the 3D soundstage dept.

 Although too late now, I would definitely use Fedex for shipment to Hawaii vs Canada post, would cost a little more but be much faster. I assume you got e-mail from VD when cable shipped? 
 I live in Ohio and takes 7-8 days for delivery from VD when using Canada Post.


----------



## pigmode

I did ask for FedEx. It entered the U.S. via Canadian Post last Sat.


----------



## andrzejpw

anyone know how I'd go around sticking one of these powercords into my denon 370?


----------



## audioman

Sounds like this might be the big week for someone to get their Nite package! Maybe Carl?

 Can't wait to hear the results, I do not think I will get mine until after the 30th...

 Steve


----------



## elybry

I'm hoping it is this week. I saw that it takes 7-8 days to Ohio and I'm in PA. It was picked up in Canada on the 12th and entered the US on the 14th. I don't pick it up on the usps site yet.

 Carl


----------



## Calanctus

My Power 1's have also just entered the US. Anticipaaaaaation....


----------



## DarkAngel

*Well I Did It* 
 I finally was able to puchase a mint used AZ Silver Reference IC
 pair at Audiogon for 50% discount, this will complete my silver collection. I will use these in conjunction with my AZ Mc2 digital cable on Bel Canto Dac 1.1 (soon to be Dac 2)

 Keep an eye out for those Nite deliveries this week.........


----------



## discoman

andrzejpw, I remember VD sells a Power 3 cord w/ 3 prong female plug. Just use it like an extension cord. Give VD a call.


----------



## DarkAngel

*New VD Reference AC cord just arrived*
 (PM don't hate me) 
 It has changed, new label has speed of light graphics. Cable jacket has fine white line criss crossing in black vs all black before. Both ends still have blue connectors.

 Will post some updated photos. Does this mean 2 month old References are already outdated? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I bet the new References are equal or better than old Signatures.


----------



## andrzejpw

Quote:


 _Originally posted by discoman _
*andrzejpw, I remember VD sells a Power 3 cord w/ 3 prong female plug. Just use it like an extension cord. Give VD a call. * 
 

What would the point be then? Wouldn't I still be using my denon's cord?


----------



## JohnActon

DA, that's very interesting. The VD Reference AC cord I kept (the other two went back home to Virtual Dynamics for credit towards the two Nite AC cords I now have) has the crisscrossing white lines on the cable jacket, just as you described. However, I've had my Reference for at least a couple months now. Is it possible VD slipped me a beta version of the upgraded Reference? It's more likely, I suppose, that I just got a new jacket. And since I sent back the other References, I can't do a direct comparison. It sounds very nice, though!!!

 I've had these Nites in my system now for some time, and they continue to amaze me. Their biggest virtue is their astounding 3-D soundstage. Brian, if anything, I've noticed that the height of my soundstage has increased since I've gotten the Nites (I've been fine-tuning my speaker placement, however, so that may be more of a contributing factor than any actual improvements over time in the Nites). Still, this is the first time my system has ever portrayed images beyond the lateral edges of my speakers as well as above them. I can't say enough good stuff. I can't stop listening. It's like a cult - I've been converted! Where's that kool-aid, Jim Jones?


----------



## JohnActon

DA, I've gone ahead and ordered some more of those Mapleshade cones for use under my amp. Curses! Beween these and the power cords, I've become a tweaker!!!


----------



## audioman

Rick tells me the a few Nite packages are in some folks hand as of today. Any comments yet?

 Mine are schd to ship on Thursday. So hopefully next week.

 Steve


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Well I Did It 
 I finally was able to puchase a mint used AZ Silver Reference IC
 pair at Audiogon for 50% discount, this will complete my silver collection. I will use these in conjunction with my AZ Mc2 digital cable on Bel Canto Dac 1.1 (soon to be Dac 2)

* 
 


 What a coincidence. I have the AZ Satori due by the end of the week, or early next week. Congrats on the Silver Ref. You are an audio-animal!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Be sure to post a review as I may be tempted to give those a try (in combo with my AZ Matrix), to see how they will size up to the Varials. This will be after the holidays as my system is about to undergo some very major changes soon.


----------



## discoman

andrzejpw, the VD P3 extension cord will "filter" the power before enter/exit your stock cord, works similar to a power conditioner. Even you replace you stock cords or IEC cords, the internal wire is still there, right. Of course we are talking about voodoo science here.


----------



## discoman

For those using VD cord, a quick question.

 How secure the IEC female is connected to your gear?

 My VD Power 3's IEC can't even hold the cord its own weight! It is sagging! I need to put a small block under the cable.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by JohnActon _
*DA, I've gone ahead and ordered some more of those Mapleshade cones for use under my amp. Curses! Beween these and the power cords, I've become a tweaker!!! * 
 

Might as well get those Mapleshade brass heavy hats as well, place some on top of gear to damp/tune vibrations. Plus they look pretty cool. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*Soundstage*
 The amazing massive 3D soundstage produced by the high end VD cords will have you worshipping at the altar of the audio gods,
 it is an addiction which has no cure, and there is no going back to your old AC cord. I immediately noticed this vs other cords I have tried, this is what makes VD cords special.

 PM
 I have more money invested in cables now as a % of total system cost than ever before with all the VD AC cords, but I've never heard so much improvement before, I have always lusted for AZ Silver Reference but thought price was not worth it (even at 50% retail) I have now changed my opinion as to how much of total system to spend on cables, so it is time to go for it.

*Disco* 
 If you get a P3 or P2 cord definitely get the flex connect feature which makes it much easier to connect to gear behind rack:
P2 Flex Connect 
 If you call VD they can work out upgrade deal for you, if you can swing it try to upgrade to the Audition cord, easier to connect and sounds better.


----------



## discoman

DarkAnge, stop tempting me from upgrading! 

 The IEC female is very very loose, even without the cable's weight. It seems never fully inserted and going to slip off at any time without some assistant.
 My green dot cable hold 100x firmer, even stock cord is 99x firmer.

 BTW, I live only 1 hr from VD !!


----------



## DarkAngel

*Photos New Reference AC cord* 
 Couple photos showing new label and overall appaearance:
VD Reference AC 1 
VD Reference AC 2


----------



## elybry

Well I got it yesterday. And I have not had time to do any real listening. I only have set up a digital cable from my dvd-a player to my pre/pro and have not really listened, but I have noticed more detail and a richer sound and better soundstage. Probably won't get a chance to really listen for a couple of days. I'll keep you hanging on until then.

 Carl


----------



## pigmode

Got my Reference *S*peed *O*f *L*ight. What can I expect as the cable burns in, and what points in time might these changes occur (10hr, 50hr etc)?


----------



## DarkAngel

*PM* 
 VD has cable cooker now and I "think" all cables get cooked before sending out, you may want to verify this with Rick. My new Reference I just got sounded great after 24hrs of play, put yours on the Phiilips SACD and listen to the soundstage expand, keep the VD phone number handy for next call, heh,heh. (JA and BK have it on speed dial)

*Carl* 
 Don't tease us, get those Nites in and take off work. Aren't they beautiful cables, nice audio jewelry for your system.


----------



## audioman

When I get mine I'm putting them in right away (they ship tomorrow!), and take the next day off if I have to! 

 I do not have the patience Carl has...


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*PM 
 VD has cable cooker now and I "think" all cables get cooked before sending out, you may want to verify this with Rick. * 
 

FWIW I asked about cable cooking when I ordered my Power 1's a couple of weeks ago, and it cost a bit extra (I added it to save burnin time).

 I have my Power 1's now but am letting my new speaker cable burn in a bit first before adding them to the system. I want to be able to listen for any changes specifically due to the AC cords.


----------



## pigmode

Same here, mines weren't cooked.

 More questions: Okay I have the Reference SOL connected to my source, and it does x to the soundstage, and x to the bass response, and x to high frequency detail, and background noise. What happens as you add more VD AC cords to the system? Do you just get gobs more of the same stuff or what? How much more soundstaging does one need? 

 Does it seem as though these cords are adding their own voice to the sound? When I asked VD to describe the sonic characteristics of the Ref. they gave me the generic response that they are transparent and as such, will only reveal the truth of the given system. 

 So what do you think is going on? Are we attaining new levels of transparency, or are we just tweaking the sound of our systems this way and that?


----------



## markl

I don't think they're "tweaking" the sound or altering it. When I think of altering the sound, I think of reducing parts of the signal or hyping others unnaturally. I agree with VD that their cables just allow your component to operate closer to it's ultimate potential. You're hearing more of the component, not the cable.

 markl


----------



## elybry

I thought I would post some initial feedback on the nite series. First, I have only been able to listen to the digital cable and a power cable to my pre/pro but I can tell that there is a significant improvement in the timbre of notes, the sound of the instruments and voices, the overall sound is more natural. I have also noticed an increase in the volume at the same setting. I am currently installing one cable at a time and spending some time listening to each. Will keep you up to date. This one is a keeper.

 Carl


----------



## audioman

Talked to Rick and my Nite package shipped on Friday, hopefully I will have by next Friday. Can't wait. 

 Carl, any more news?


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*So what do you think is going on? Are we attaining new levels of transparency, or are we just tweaking the sound of our systems this way and that? * 
 

I think there is much more going on here than just some tonal shifting. This was discussed many posts ago, but there is definitely some smearing/distortion that is removed by these AC cords. The effect sounds similar to upgrading isolation devices or upgading CDP, it reminds me of the first time I tried bearings under my gear. Just an overall increase in fine detail retrieval and big increase in 3D soundstage. 

 The effect is gradually increased as add VD AC cords and/or move up the line to Nite series. In my system the P3,P2 sound a bit too warm/relaxed.....the Reference is much better but just slightly on the warm side.........the Nite is just about perfect tonal balance for me. If you swap a Zu Mother for a VD Reference you will notice much more treble energy, which will be good or bad depending on your system. The VD Reference/Nite however are better at 3D presentation vs Mother (or just about any other AC cord in their price range)

 I will be getting Bel Canto Dac 2 upgrade very soon, which should give me a bit more treble extension, and may cause me to do some more cable swapping. Also AZ Silver Reference ICs arrive Tuesday.

*Carl & PM* 
 How about some more details on sound changes you are hearing.


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*


 The effect is gradually increased as add VD AC cords and/or move up the line to Nite series. In my system the P3,P2 sound a bit too warm/relaxed.....the Reference is much better but just slightly on the warm side.........the Nite is just about perfect tonal balance for me. If you swap a Zu Mother for a VD Reference you will notice much more treble energy, which will be good or bad depending on your system. The VD Reference/Nite however are better at 3D presentation vs Mother (or just about any other AC cord in their price range)


* 
 

Interesting take, DA. I sometimes get the impression that my system lies somewhere from warm to dark, and I have a stong aversion to the slightest hint of brightness.

 I have about 50 hr. on the Ref. SOL. Right off the bat the Reference had a smoother top end than my well broken in Mother PC. At about 30 hours, the midrange has bloomed a little and at 40 hours I noticed that the soundstage has opened up as well. So far I'd say the Reference is more highly resolving of micro-details than the Mother. This is most apparent with well recorded classical discs. My guess is that this is somehow related to a cleaner and quieter background, as well as a more sharply presented sense of image. I'm impressed, although I'll hold judgement till I hit 150 hours or so.

 Rick recommended I move the Ref. over to my amps (I'll need one more) and go to a Nite for the cdp. I'll also need another cord for a new preamp (soon to arrive), but I haven't made the decision yet on whether to go with all VD or not. I still think the Nite is over the top for my system, but we'll see. I'm actually in the process of upgrading my system so maybe a complete set of VD pcs might make sense. I tend to agree with the notion of coherence, and do not want to mix and match a bunch of different brands.

 Question: I like the physical characteristics of the Reference cord--specifically the tight fit of the male IEC plug, and the wires ability to hold a pre-bent shape. Does the Audition also have these same traits?


----------



## DarkAngel

Audiotion
 Reference
 Signature
 Nite
 All these AC cords bend the same way and vary only in amount of filtering and quality differences in male/female connectors.

 Somehow I am not surprised Rick would say get a Nite for your CDP, heh,heh. It is a noticeable step up from the References but you have to keep cost in mind. If you were to get one, put it right on the CDP. As I said previously keep the VD number handy.


----------



## pigmode

In terms of cost, my concern is a sense of scale rather than affordability, since I am replacing a few key components at the same time as upgrading power cords.


----------



## Calanctus

Well, I decided my speaker cable had burned in enough (it came pre-cooked) so I installed the Power 1's. Even though they were also pre-cooked, I'm now hoping that there is still some burn-in going on--since I'm just a bit disappointed.

 There is more bass energy, and instruments seem more well-integrated spatially--the spatial presentation somehow seems to make more sense. However, there is definitely a loss of treble energy--too much to make the exchange worthwhile at this point. This is especially true in my system, because its primary weakness is treble clarity: the system sound is very smooth and non-fatiguing, lots of bass, decent soundstage, nice timbre, but can be a bit muffled-sounding up top. 

 My new speaker cable went a long ways to bolstering the treble, but now some of those gains are apparently gone...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Getting the ACs installed was definitely a wrestling match. Maybe I should have gone for the Reference/Signature level, for better sound and ease of installation?


----------



## DarkAngel

*Cal* 
 I have never seen a P1, so I will have to "assume" it is similar to the P2,P3 AC cords. First if you get any of these be sure and get flex connect feature, much easier to install behind rack, I have posted comments/photos of this many times. I have also commented a few times that in my system the P2 were too warm/relaxed and lacked treble extension I desired, so I traded them for Reference cord which is much better overall. I think the Reference may be just slightly warm toned but much better treble extension vs P2. The Nite seems just perfect for me tonally. If you want to exchange the P1 for better VD cord, no problem just talk to Rick.

 I might mention that my system, although all solid state, may be slightly warm in nature especially with Bel Canto Dac 1.1, I listen to mostly rock/alt which are not the best recordings and don't want too lean/analytical sound which will sound bad with my CDs.
 I have friends who have systems that I couldn't play 75% of my music on, far too bright grainy etc.

 When I go to their house I am forced to listen to Cowboy Junkies, Diana Krall, Jennifer Warnes etc because these are the only type of CDs that sound good..........boring


----------



## CosmicVoid

Hi all,

 I have ordered a P1 and P3 which should arrive in the next week or so. Found out about them while browsing a link at Audiogon. Brett informed me of Head-Fi and I find the community atmosphere comforting. I just hope I don't start the major upgrade path on the cables before getting the rest of my system together.

 Quick question for Dark Angel... I am considering a MF A3.2cr preamp and would like your opinion on your A3cr. I have the A3CD as do you and am happy with it. I also have an option of a used Sonic Frontiers Line 1 for around the same price. The SF includes a supposedly very nice headphone amp built in. Headroom I believe. Email me please. Sorry for the off-topic.

 Thanks to all of you for sharing you observations and opinions. When spending large sums of money it is reassuring to believe that one is spending wisely.

 I will post my observations on the PC's after I have checked them out. I hope I don't wet myself in all my excitement of anticipation.

 T^2


----------



## Calanctus

DA, thanks for the info. The Power 1 is a single massive cable (unlike the multistranded cables I see in your photos of the Reference and Nite versions). Interesting to hear that you thought the other Power series were a touch warm--I suppose I should have read this thread more carefully, since I really need a *neutral* cable. I'll let them burn in for a couple days more, then perhaps (if I still notice muffled treble) call Rick again.

 FWIW my criticisms apply mainly to listening to my system through speakers. I did a little headphone listening last night, and wow--really nice. I can't say it's all due to the AC cords, since I actually have had very little time to listen to my new XA777 through headphones, but whatever the reason was, the sound was just fantastic: black background, fast and clear sound, groooooovy!


----------



## DarkAngel

*Cosmic* 
 I have not tried many different preamps, and no tube ones. I am probably not a very objective source of info since I have had Musical Fidelity gear for last 15yrs. Prior to A3cr preamp/amp I had XAS100 preamp/amp then several different MF integrated amps. You can sometimes find A3cr preamps used for $900-1000 range at Audiogon, they offer great performance for the money and are beautiful looking design as well. Would cost much more to get noticeably better sound. I have no plans to upgrade my A3cr preamp.

 If you have any specific questions you can PM me, it is turned on now.


----------



## pigmode

DA,
 How are those Silver refs going? I'm assuming they are completely burned-in? I know the AZs throw a big soundstage so I was wondering how they will work with the VD cords.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*DA,
 How are those Silver refs going? I'm assuming they are completely burned-in? I know the AZs throw a big soundstage so I was wondering how they will work with the VD cords. * 
 

*Patience Grasshopper!* 
 I should get the AZ Silver Reference ICs Monday/Tuesday and they go right on the Bel Canto Dac 1.1, I think I will also trade in one more VD Reference AC for another Nite AC and forget about the BC Dac 2 for now (saw some used ones for $900-1000 at Audiogon recently)..........my system is really sounding great now playing any type of alt/rock CD, don't want to get so hyper detailed that I loose the musicality on average quality recordings.

 Time to go to local bar for WWE Summer Slam, heh heh.


----------



## CosmicVoid

DA,

 I will probably buy new as by the time I convert monopoly money to US dollars and pay shipping it doesn't cost a whole lot more.

 Anybody with some comments about the Power 1's? Everybody can't be spending their kids' college funds on power (Nite) cables, can they? I do have to say though that VD is very good at giving a good price to all who ask.

 T^2


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by CosmicVoid _
*
 Anybody with some comments about the Power 1's? Everybody can't be spending their kids' college funds on power (Nite) cables, can they? 
 T^2 * 
 

In my system, to my ears, the Power 1's improved the bass and background blackness at the cost of some treble energy--which is why I'm considering calling VD to inquire about the Reference AC cord.


----------



## Calanctus

Isn't anyone going to post a 'featured full review' of one of the VD cords--how about it, markl or DA?


----------



## andrzejpw

Anyone? If I don't have a user replaceable cord on my source, would I still benefit if I plug my cdplayers cord into the power cable, and the power cable into hte power?


----------



## CosmicVoid

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Calanctus _
*

 In my system, to my ears, the Power 1's improved the bass and background blackness at the cost of some treble energy--which is why I'm considering calling VD to inquire about the Reference AC cord. * 
 

I just got my cables this AM at the office. Just had to come home for lunch. My initial impressions are extremely favourable. I am getting all that Calanctus says without the treble roll off. In point of fact the treble seems to have a little more sparkle which I really like. More to come when these puppies are burned in.

 I am extremely impressed with the service from Virtual Dynamics! I ordered on Thursday and received them Monday morning! I can't wait to get home from work. I won't leave the system running as I want to hear how things settle as these cables cook.

 Back to work. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 T^2


----------



## elybry

Just another check in. Still haven't hooked everything up yet I am still amazed at the sound coming out of my system. It continues to improve. I have now got 2 power cords and 1 ic in and am amazed that each time I add a cable the sound improves. More real, more dynamic, more detailed. I can't wait to get the speaker cables in. The power cables are definitely easier to work with than the power 2s.

 Carl


----------



## DarkAngel

*Oh my, what have I done!* 
 Just purchased used Bel Canto Dac 2 from Audiogon, where does it ever end, heh heh.

 Keep the VD cable impressions coming guys, inquiring minds want to know.


----------



## DarkAngel

*PM* 
 Lookwhat just arrived:
AZ 1 
AZ 2 
 these AZ Silver Refs are much stiffer vs ProSilway II, will have to let them break-in for 24hrs before I can assess performance.


----------



## bkelly

Friends,

 My computer is still in the shop so I can only check in from time to time but it looks like the thread is still moving right along. 

 John Acton, 

 Where is your system now that you've had it for awhile?

 Mark,

 Check in more often.





 Best
 Brian


----------



## Joe Bloggs

You guys need to do a summary of this thread for 'inquiring but lazy minds'


----------



## CosmicVoid

Did some more listening tonight and there WAS a treble roll off in my sound with a Power 3 on the amp and a Power 1 on the CD player. This was mostly noted on cymbals. It was if the upper frequencies were veiled. I wouldn't have been able to live with this. So I switched them and put the better cable on my amp and all my treble came back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Note that my CD player is feeding into a surround receiver and may be redigitized by the receiver. I will do more swapping in and out of the cables to find out what's happening here and report back. One thing though - the increase in soundstage and depth is impressive.

 T^2


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by CosmicVoid _
*Did some more listening tonight and there WAS a treble roll off in my sound with a Power 3 on the amp and a Power 1 on the CD player. This was mostly noted on cymbals. It was if the upper frequencies were veiled. 
 T^2 * 
 

AHA! So I wasn't hallucinating after all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad you were able to fix it by a simple cable switcharound. My speakers are rather vulnerable to treble rolloff I think (they are on the borderline between 'smooth' and 'rolled-off') so Power 1's all around just did not work.

 I've contacted VD and they're sending Reference AC cords--still trying to work out the exact details of the refund but I think they will credit me fully for the Power 1's, which I'm sending back.

 I hope the treble rolloff is not a 'house sound'. If it is, it might work really well on most systems (IMHO most speakers and even many headphones are too bright) but not on mine....


----------



## JohnActon

Brian,

 My system is simply singing right now. I'm afraid to touch anything! I'm being sent a pair of speakers for audition (Meadowlark Swift) and I'm afraid that inserting a new component will upset the fragile balance that is so magical (part of this magic is due to the fact that I've finally got my speaker locations perfectly set up, and I'm afraid that I won't be able to get them perfectly positioned like that again).

 The soundstage is pure magic. Sounds emanate from above, beyond and behind the speakers. Sometimes, the central image jumps in front of the speakers, with everything else positioned behind the speakers. The sound is so disassociated from the speakers that I swear sometimes I want to move the speakers out of the way of the music. Incredible realism. Rick's not an audio engineer, he's a friggin' alchemist. These Nites are incredible.

 Calanctus, I just returned my References for credit towards the Nites. I think you'll really like the References. The Nites ARE better, but the References still get you the magic. Probably a better bargain than the Nites. Of course, if you have to have the best....

 DA - still waiting on my Mapleshade cones. I'll try posting some pics when I get 'em.


----------



## DarkAngel

*JA* 
 Yes I do think Cal needs at least one Reference to see what is possible.........but isn't that how we got started and look where we are now, heh heh.

 I forgot to mention another reason I like the big Mapleshade brass cones is they match the gold trim on my Musical Fidelity gear, a real fashion statement. It sure do look purty.....

 I have been buying stuff like crazy at Audiogon, in the last 10 days I have purchased used:
 -AZ Silver Reference ICs
 -Bel Canto Dac 2
 -AZ Matrix ICs (Mk II version, just got these tonight! PM will hate me even more now)

 These AZ cables are great, they blew the HT ProSilway II away but that is another topic, don't get me started.

*Cal* 
 Trust me, you will not regret exchanging the P1 for Reference.
 Treble extension is much more realistic, soundstage even bigger etc.........your wallet may regret it though


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*JA 


 I have been buying stuff like crazy at Audiogon, in the last 10 days I have purchased used:
 -AZ Silver Reference ICs
 -Bel Canto Dac 2
 -AZ Matrix ICs (Mk II version, just got these tonight! PM will hate me even more now)

* 
 

No, I won't hate you. Why? Because I have been listening for the past three days to a well burned-in pair of AZ Satori speaker cables. These cables have painfully revealed the shortcomings of my previous (and much loved) speaker wires--the Cardas Neutral Reference. The Satoris have a more naturally weighted midrange and a much stronger bass reproduction. They are highly detailed in the upper registers, and yet are not so unforgiving of normal CDs. The Cardas, in my system, are ruthless and bass light.

 Re: VD Reference SOL
 Mines are burning in beautifully at about 60 hours now. The midrange has filled in considerably, and I am 80% sure at this point that it will have a pemanent place in my system. The one thing I am wary about is midrange bloat, since my system is weighted so heavily towards midband performance that it will not stand too much more. We shall see. I also have two amps and a pre that are in need of AC cords. Hmmm...


----------



## audioman

OK.... Here goes...

 Got all my Nite package today, with the exception of the 3 Bi-Wire speaker cables. Regular speaker cables were sent by mistake, so I installed them and bridged them for now until the true Bi-Wire cables arrive.

 Here is the setup.

 4 Nite Power Cords

 1 - Proceed AVP2 Pre
 1 - Proceed AMP 5
 1 - Rotel 1080 CD/DVD
 1 - ExactPower H15A

 5 Nite Interconnects to form AVP2 to AMP5 L,R,C,RS,LS.

 1 - Nite Sub Interconnect

 3 Nite Speaker cables L, R, C Non Bi-Wired for now
 Rick is rushing the Bi-Wired replacements,

 All is installed and running as of about 6PM PT. Since these were cooked, I should have alot more to say later tomorrow or this weekend about sound quality. This is a wholesale change of all cables in 1 shot.

 Initial Impressions are that the Nite Power cords fit alot better that my Synergistics did as I had a to tweak the cables to get the proper connection, None of that exists with these and the Nites are easier to mold. They weigh a ton, as do the interconnects, and I like the locking connectors.

 Sound wise I immediately noticed tighter more defined bass and more detail (which seems alittle annoying right now) but its way too early to listen critically, I put on a DVD Jurassic Park 3 (with alot of bass and highs) and I am just letting it play for the next several days.

 I did notice something very interesting but I am not sure what to make of it. Before I made the change I took an amp and wattage reading from my ExactPower unit and it was running at 774 Watts 6amps at room volume with all equipment on, after the change the unit reads 738 Watts and 6 amps at the same room volume (with all equipment on). Very Interesting, I will keep monitering.

 So I will see over the next several days just where this ends up but so far so good. These cables remind me of the braided hoses I used to use on my ski/race Boat. Tough... 

 Carl, any more on your experience?


----------



## bkelly

TO COOK THE CABLES THEY ARE BURNED IN AT HIGHER VOLTAGES SO WHEN YOU FIRST GET THEM THEY SOUND A LITTLE WILD BUT SETTLE DOWN QUICK.


----------



## DarkAngel

*Final CD Playback Upgrade?* 

BC Dac 2 

 It will be very hard to significantly improve on this, Bel Canto Dac 2, AZ Mc2, AZ Silver Reference, VD Reference Cryo AC without spending crazy money (I've said that before though)
 The 3D soundstage I am getting now is amazing, hard to fully describe in words.

*Guys, come on lets hear some more feedback on all those Nite cables!*


----------



## RickG

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Final CD Playback Upgrade? 

 It will be very hard to significantly improve on this, Bel Canto Dac 2, * 
 

Yeah, and there's one available on Audiogon with an _asking_ price of $950. I really want that sucker, but I'm just not willing to part with the moolah at the moment...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.p...onv&1034083598


----------



## audioman

Well the system has been up and running now for about 36 hours at room volume and things have started to settle down alittle. 

 I was listening to the Eagles DVD in DTS and what caught my ear over the Synergistic X series was the clarity of something as simple as cymbals, you could not only tell thats what you were hearing but in watching the DVD I for the first time actually I was looking for them to make sure that is where the sound was from. It almost sounded like I was standing right next to the drummer. Very interesting. 

 I have also noticed better bass response at lower volume levels and hear much more detail as I mentioned in an earlier post. The sound does seem more natural and dynamic. Still not sure where the treble is going, it still sounds extended but its very early, we will see in a couple of weeks where it goes.

 Also I forgot to mention in an earlier post where I described the Nite setup that I also have a Nite Digital cable form the Rotel to the AVP2. 

 Also my ExactPower regenerator still reads 738 (down from 774) watts at room volume, no change... with peaks to 800, still do not know what to make of it. Does that mean everything is running more effecient with these Nites....

 So that is where I am at 36 hours, and we will actually be watching some movies later so I will let you know more. My wife and kids dont think it sounds very different at all but what do they know! 

 Still interested where Carls system is right now, any updates?

 Talk to you all later...


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted some time ago by pigmode _
*Calanctus,

 If you are purchasing the entire system all at once (as I did recently), my suggestions would be to set aside a very modest portion for cables. This way, you will maximize the quality of your components, and as you become intimately familiar with their sound characteristics, the upgrading of cables will be the final refinement. * 
 

I'm rereading this amazing thread, and Pigmode, it turns out you were quite right
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As posted, I had to return the VD Power 1s due to softening of the treble. Now waiting for the Reference cords to show up. 

 Fortunately I seem to have been very lucky with my new speaker cable, relatively inexpensive but just what my system needed: DH Labs Q10 biwire. This silver-plated cable really improved the treble clarity and extension over my DIY 'el cheapo' cable (50' reel of copper cabling with clamp-on banana plugs, $30 or so for the lot).

 DarkAngel's comments have convinced me to try a set of the Mapleshade Ultimate Triplepoint cones under my digital source. The tweaks go on!


----------



## DarkAngel

*Cal* 
 Yes the Mapleshade brass cones are great, JA is using them currently. Check this photo out, I am using Surefoot 1.5" cones under Bel Canto Dac 2 and Bigfoot 2" cones under CDP (all gear on cones currently): 
Mapleshade Cones 

 If you are looking for treble extension from AC cord the VD Reference is better vs P1 but still just slightly on the warm side of nuetral in my system, a very good match for most systems looking for a natural musical sound. The Nite for me strikes the perfect tonal balance. Zu Mother & Shunyata Sidewinder AC cords have more treble extension vs VD Reference, costs are about equal, but I think the 3D soundstage of VD Reference is superior. 

*Audioman* 
 Thanks for the update, keep us posted. Very interesting about slightly lower power consumption.

*PM* 
 How is the VD Reference AC working out for you? What other AC cords do you have besides Zu Mother?


----------



## Calanctus

DA, nice photo. Looks like the Bel Canto just barely fits on your rack, sandwiched between all that heavy brass!


----------



## DarkAngel

*Call made to Canada, Again!* 
 I decided to sell all my other AC cords and go 100% VD, this will give me funds to purchase another Nite AC, which I just did. Total count now is:
 VD Nite - 2
 VD Reference - 4

 Orders are strong, my Nite won't ship for 1 week.


----------



## bkelly

Dark Angel,

 Congratulations!

 I'm also glad to see that business is good at VD because they are definitley a deserving group.



 Best
 Brian


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*

PM 
 How is the VD Reference AC working out for you? What other AC cords do you have besides Zu Mother? * 
 

The Zu Mother was the only other PC that I have tried with my source, and I recently traded it in for a third pair of Varial ICs. I also had two VD Power Threes connected to my amps, which I eventually sold.

 I have about 100 hours on the Ref right now and they will be staying in my system. I will be acquiring another VD cord for my soon to be delivered Fi preamp, and am still considering whether or not to get another pair for the power amps. 

 There is also another set of speakers to be delivered soon so depending on how those work out, the Ref. SOL cords might just be the ticket. I will not be auditioning any other brands of power cords as I am very happy with my Reference SOL, and want to avoid the mix and match game in the interest of coherence.


----------



## DarkAngel

*PM* 
 Quite a spending spree you have there, sounds like almost a complete system makeover, the quest for the absolute sound goes on, heh heh.

 Sounds like you will become owner of multiple VD AC cords soon,
 they can spoil you quickly......ask BK, JA, Mark etc.

*Anymore news on Nite cables?* 
 Waiting to hear more info on all those Nite cables various people here received recently..........


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*PM 
 Quite a spending spree you have there, sounds like almost a complete system makeover, the quest for the absolute sound goes on, heh heh.

 Sounds like you will become owner of multiple VD AC cords soon,
 they can spoil you quickly......ask BK, JA, Mark etc.

* 
 

Yes, this is a planned attempt to compare my current PP tubed system to an SET setup. A pair of Galante Rapsodies are scheduled to arrive next week.

http://www.galanteaudio.com/rhapsody.htm

 Question: Can you provide a more detail description of what the differences are between the Nite and the Ref. SOL?


----------



## Calanctus

I got my VD Reference AC cords today and connected them (they were pre-cooked).

 They are a definite improvement over the Power 1's. The benefits, to my ears, are:
increased soundstage depth (front-back distance). This is the most noticeable change.
enhanced instrument separation.
They may improve the bass a bit; I'm not sure yet but I'll report back again later. 

 They still soften the treble, but it's very slight, and the other changes in the sound make this a worthwhile tradeoff. 

 For me the net benefit was less than from upgrading my speaker cables from $20 DIY to $300 DH Labs silver-plated biwire, but still definitely worthwhile!!


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 They still soften the treble, but it's very slight, and the other changes in the sound make this a worthwhile tradeoff. 
 

That is just one of the traits that I like. I don't miss too much when listening to my (sonically) best CDs, but it lends a degree of forgiveness to lesser discs, which I find important.


  Quote:


 For me the net benefit was less than from upgrading my speaker cables from $20 DIY to $300 DH Labs silver-plated biwire, but still definitely worthwhile!! 
 

Same here. The improvements I've derived so far are about on par to what my Acoustic Zen Satori speaker wires have brought. The main benefits from the VD Ref. has been with its extremely black background which in turn has enhanced instrument seperation and detail resolution. The VD Ref. is definitely worth the price I payed for it.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
* That is just one of the traits that I like. I don't miss too much when listening to my (sonically) best CDs, but it lends a degree of forgiveness to lesser discs, which I find important.

 Same here. The improvements I've derived so far are about on par to what my Acoustic Zen Satori speaker wires have brought. The main benefits from the VD Ref. has been with its extremely black background which in turn has enhanced instrument seperation and detail resolution. The VD Ref. is definitely worth the price I payed for it. * 
 

Before you say the AZ speaker cables made as much difference, wait till you all gear on VD AC cords you may change your mind, I still feel the VD Reference/Nite cords made more improvement than any cable change I have ever made to date.

 As far as difference between Nite vs Reference AC cords this has been discussed by several people previously, some find the improvement larger than others but we all agree there is a noticeable improvement. Tonally to me they sound similar, just incrementally more fine detail revealed and even larger 3D soundstage. Still very musical and natural, does seem to be a bit more treble/bass extension, a reference quality AC cord that I plan on keeping for a very long time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, Ric at VD doesn't care for silver cables, and tells me as I add more Nites to the system my AZ Silver Reference ICs may become less desireable to me. I don't know about that, I will always have some silver in my cable collection, just to hedge my bets though I did just get AZ Matrix Reference II.


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
* 
 That is just one of the traits that I like. I don't miss too much when listening to my (sonically) best CDs, but it lends a degree of forgiveness to lesser discs, which I find important. * 
 

I'm only a budding audiophile, so I'm not sure of the best way to do this--but wouldn't it be easier to add a preamp with a bypassable tone control to your system, for those lesser CDs, and bypass the tone control with the better ones? This would allow you to use equipment with maximum detail and resolving power for the best stuff, yet still smooth out the inferior recordings when you need to.

 I know many people consider tone controls to be 'of the Devil', but is it any better to do this through cables? Just asking--maybe it is....


*DarkAngel* 

 I'm curious: What's your opinion of the Analysis Plus Silver Oval ICs which you tried a while back?


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Calanctus _
*I'm curious: What's your opinion of the Analysis Plus Silver Oval ICs which you tried a while back? * 
 

I like the AP Silver Ovals very much, but they are a bit expensive.
 Picked mine up used (as usual) at 50% retail, but to tell you the truth the new AP Solo Crystals are just as good for 30% less, look for reviews of these soon from several sources. AP cables have a "house" sound that is very natural and relaxed, makes most other cables seem unnaturally hyped by comparison.

 Also want to mention that next I will have to sell my old warhorse
 cables HT ProSilway II, becuase they were smoked by AZ Silver References. The HT PS II have slightly more treble sparkle and extension, but in all other respects they are left in the shade by the AZ SR, especially in size of 3D soundstage. Of course you would expect them to better by the higher price.

 BTW - sold both Zu Mothers in 8 hrs at Audiogon yesterday.


----------



## acidtripwow

Quote:


 Also want to mention that next I will have to sell my old warhorse 
 cables HT ProSilway II, becuase they were smoked by AZ Silver References. 
 

I really like my AZSR cables. They are way expensive but they are awesome in my opinion. The only bad thing is now I want a second set for the tape out on my Receiver. I recently talked to a local dealer who said he doesn't like the AZ cables because they are too bright and lacked bass. I don't know what the heck he was talking about. Don't believe everything you hear you just have to try them out for yourself.


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*
 Before you say the AZ speaker cables made as much difference, wait till you all gear on VD AC cords you may change your mind, I still feel the VD Reference/Nite cords made more improvement than any cable change I have ever made to date.

* 
 

I am definitely in the market for another cable right after I recover from this mornings phone call--I changed my order for a Fi preamp to a 2A3 SET amp with a built-in passive volume control and input selection.

  Quote:


 I'm only a budding audiophile, so I'm not sure of the best way to do this--but wouldn't it be easier to add a preamp with a bypassable tone control to your system, for those lesser CDs, and bypass the tone control with the better ones? This would allow you to use equipment with maximum detail and resolving power for the best stuff, yet still smooth out the inferior recordings when you need to. 
 

Calantus, I am moving in the opposite direction right now by simplifying my electronics in an attempt to get at a more elemental sense of music reproduction (I think). I'm not an audio snob or anything like that, as its just a matter of personal taste. Btw, I notice you have some pretty impressive equipment.


----------



## DarkAngel

*PM, Acid* 
 Recognize these:
Cable 

 >>>>>2A3 SET amp with a built-in passive volume control and input selection<<<<<
 In the old days we called this an integrated amp, heh heh


----------



## Calanctus

PM, I'm fairly happy with my equipment, but there's no end to the upgrades (for as long as the fever lasts)! 
My Mapleshade cones arrived yesterday; I'll put them under the XA777 on Saturday.
I'm looking at selling the Marantz and getting an amp, maybe a Bel Canto EVo, and a preamp (maybe even with tone control!)
If I do that, I'll need another power cord. I lost an auction for Shunyata Viper 2 last night. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But maybe another VD...
Finally, I want to upgrade my headphones (appropriately enough, for this forum). The Beyers are great, but I'd like more midrange clarity without losing too much of the bass.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Calanctus _
*[*]My Mapleshade cones arrived yesterday; I'll put them under the XA777 on Saturday.[*]I'm looking at selling the Marantz and getting an amp, maybe a Bel Canto EVo, and a preamp (maybe even with tone control!)[*]If I do that, I'll need another power cord. I lost an auction for Shunyata Viper 2 last night. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But maybe another VD...[*]Finally, I want to upgrade my headphones (appropriately enough, for this forum). The Beyers are great, but I'd like more midrange clarity without losing too much of the bass.[/list]* 
 

We all must do our patriotic duty to keep the economy going, spend, spend, heh heh 
 The old Shunyata cords still have pretty good resale vaule especially the Black Mamba & Python models.

 Let us know how you like those beautiful shiny Mapleshade brass cones.


----------



## pigmode

DA, 
 Have you paired the Matrix with the Silver Ref yet? I thought the Matrix had great imaging and HF detail along with a considerable midrange/ upper-bass hump. The AZ cables are said to have great synergy together.



 Calanctus,
 My preference is to work on ICs before power cords, simply because they have the more primary function of carrying the actual audio signal.


----------



## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*Have you paired the Matrix with the Silver Ref yet? I thought the Matrix had great imaging and HF detail along with a considerable midrange/ upper-bass hump. The AZ cables are said to have great synergy together. * 
 

That is my plan, I have also heard they sound good together, I believe it is even recommended at AZ site. My plan was to insert the AZ Matrix along with new Nite AC when it arrives, may take 3D presention another step closer to the Absolute Sound.


----------



## acidtripwow

I haven't tried the AZ Matrix interconnects. yet. Maybe I'll try those next.

 Hey, who bought the Mapleshade stuff? I just got a catalog from them. Are those any good?


----------



## audioman

Well one week into the new VD Nite setup it does sound natural and bass response at lower volume levels seems better. I still cant wait for the Bi-wire speaker cables to show up , maybe next week. The treble still sounds extended (for HT) but I need to get the right speaker cables installed to make the final determination. Then once I have the entire package make a final decision, especially if treble still sounds extended. 

 I have heard many say that their experience was more of a muted or roll off in treble. I have had the opposite and do not know why unless the tweeters are out of phase since they are not truely Bi-Wired yet. Time will tell. Has anyone else out there noticed extended treble with their Nite package? Unless its my B&W Nautlis 804's or the AVP2?

 Carl, any more info on your setup?


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by audioman _
*

 I have heard many say that their experience was more of a muted or roll off in treble. I have had the opposite and do not know why...* 
 

When I agreed with the softening of the treble thing, I was a bit unclear. I actually meant that my VD Ref. had a less extended treble than my previous Zu Mother PC. Aren't the Nite ICs supposed to provide a moderate HF extension? I may have to try a pair--let me check the VD site real quick...

 Okay, I guess they go for about 600 bux right?


----------



## bkelly

Friends,

 I have some news to report. I finally got my last Nite series cable and swapped it out with the Reference model that I was using on my power amp. 

 To be brief let me kind of recap the differences that I noticed as I moved up to Nites on my CD player, my pre-amp and finally my power amp.

 When I added the Nite on the CD player I could not really believe the difference between that and the earlier model VD cables I was using in the rest of my system. The dynamic response increased dramatically! I think more so than anything else I could have possibly done. In other words, I don't think buying an incredibly expensive amp or CDP would have made as much difference as this simple cable switch.

 I then changed over to the Nite series interconnect which cleaned up the sound even more but seem to inhibit the dynamics noticeably. It was a clear improvement but it was an unexpected result. Rick has a technical explanation for this but I don't remember it.

 When I added the Nite to the pre-amp the dynamics came back in a big way and the sound stage increased in the same way and to the same degree as the earlier cable swap. I think everyone is familiar with the soundstage characteristics of these cable so I won't go over it again other than to say I have never heard another component do as well in making this much improvement. My B&W's sound like electrostatics and conventional speakers all at the same time. 
 Last week I added the last cable on the amp and the result was a little different this time. The biggest changes were in seperatin between the instruments and the bottom end tightened up in a very noticeable way. More change on the bottom end with this swap than with all the others accept possibly when I first started using the VD power cables.

 Rick say the speakers cable will make a big difference too but they won't really show themselves until everythingn else is changed. Well I'm ready, at least chronologically speaking but financially I am going to have to wait until I recover from all the other audio spending I've done.

 Talk soon.





 Best
 Brian


----------



## bkelly

I forgot to mention that as you move up in the VD cable series the more extended the high frequencies get. Even at the begining of the series they highs are still very much there and they sound good but they don't have the presence they have on the later series cables. 





 Best
 Brian


----------



## Calanctus

I'm beginning to think that the treble difficulties I experienced with the Power 1's (and still have to a minor extent with the Refs) are the result of my system--either the receiver or the speakers. I like my headphones more than ever and don't notice any issue with them. So maybe I have to do more than tweaks like AC cords...e.g. a new pre and amplifier.

 I'm going to wait until I can have someone come over and help me set up the Mapleshade cones. They are really sharp and I don't want to slide my $$$ SACD player around on top of them and get tons of scratches on the finish!


----------



## pigmode

Cal,
 Everytime I look at your profile, I'm absolutely flaberghasted by your great choice of cdp and speakers.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your system is crying, moaning, screaming out for a compatible amplifier. The absolutely last thing I would spend money on is cables. Don't let the gist of this thread fool you into thinking that cables are more important than components. Most all of the major players in this thread had well balanced component sets before they came here.

 But that's just me...


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*Cal,
 Everytime I look at your profile, I'm absolutely flaberghasted by your great choice of cdp and speakers.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your system is crying, moaning, screaming out for a compatible amplifier. 

 But that's just me...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

No, it's not just you! A friend came over yesterday and listened--told me the same thing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't want to crap in this great thread too much, but what do you think might be good with the Offrandes? Here's what I'm considering: Belles 350A, PS Audio HCA-2, Bel Canto Design EVo 2 or 200.4 in bridged mode, Gamut D200, Bryston 7BST or 4BSST, McCormack DNA225. 

 When I get one, I'll definitely need another VD Ref.


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Calanctus _
*


 I don't want to crap in this great thread too much, but what do you think might be good with the Offrandes? Here's what I'm considering: Belles 350A, PS Audio HCA-2, Bel Canto Design EVo 2 or 200.4 in bridged mode, Gamut D200, Bryston 7BST or 4BSST, McCormack DNA225. 

 When I get one, I'll definitely need another VD Ref. * 
 

OMG, the McCormack is rated at 225w and the Gamut at 200W!! Your room must be huge! I'm moving from an EL34 based 25w tube amp to a 3.5w SET amp, so conceptually we are at opposite poles. 

 I will hold off on getting another Ref. till I become familiarized with my new system.

  Quote:


 I then changed over to the Nite series interconnect which cleaned up the sound even more but seem to inhibit the dynamics noticeably. It was a clear improvement but it was an unexpected result. Rick has a technical explanation for this but I don't remember it. 
 

Brian,
 I'm a little confused here. Dynamics were inhibited but it was still a clear improvement? Will you keep those ICs?


----------



## bkelly

Pigmode,

 The VD Nite interconnect still had the nice soundstage and made a noticeable improvemnent in the overall cleanliness of things but it damped the dynamics a bit. I called Rick and he explained what was happening and assurred me as soon as I moved up to the Nites on the next component everything would be fine. Which I did and everything was fine, only much better.

 It proves one thing about the VD stuff and that is that it works as a system even bettr than it does alone. As soon as I put a Nite Power on the next component in line all the dynamics were back in a big way.

 The dynamics of these things are off the charts in my experience. There is no way you would ever consider putting a recording of a jet engine into play in my system because with the Nites installed it would laugh at the dynamics of such a recording and proceed to blow your house down.

 Dark Angle has reported a less dramatic change but I think others have tended to agreed with me.
 I still cannot get over the difference.

 Talk soon.





 Best
 Brian


----------



## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by bkelly _
*Pigmode,

 The VD Nite interconnect still had the nice soundstage and made a noticeable improvemnent in the overall cleanliness of things but it damped the dynamics a bit. I called Rick and he explained what was happening and assurred me as soon as I moved up to the Nites on the next component everything would be fine. Which I did and everything was fine, only much better.

* 
 

*BINGO!!!* VD told me that my Ref. cord didn't have a voice, because it was transparent and could only relay the truth of my components. Here you seem to be saying that the Nite IC is more or less deliberately voiced to compensate for the sonic effects of the Nite PC. We *are* tweaking the sound of our systems with these cables right?

 Why do we have to wade through the lip service paid to audio shibboleths such as transparency in order to get some valid information about a product? I'm not singling out VD for this, and I still plan to acquire another VD cord but it is highly irritating nonetheless.


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by pigmode _
*

 OMG, the McCormack is rated at 225w and the Gamut at 200W!! Your room must be huge! I'm moving from an EL34 based 25w tube amp to a 3.5w SET amp, so conceptually we are at opposite poles. 
* 
 

Heh, actually those are 2 of the weaker amps on my list (PC Audio HCA2 excluded). The Belles is 250 wpc...the Bryston 7BST is 500. My speakers lack some dynamics and are too flat, plus I'm guessing that the impedance curve is mountainous (I haven't actually seen one anywhere, that guess is based on the sound), so I want to make sure I have enough power...plus some in reserve in case I want to change speakers to something harder to drive.

 Some manufacturers are definitely hip to the importance of power cords. The PC Audio folks actually chided a reviewer for not replacing their stock cord with a better aftermarket product. The reviewer compared their product slightly unfavourably to a more expensive Krell amplifier, and they responded by saying that with a better power cord it could have challenged the Krell.


----------



## qwerty870

I have heard the McCormack DNA225 and the Bryston. Both are excellent amps, but I cannot recommend either as I am completely unfamiliar with your speakers. I am considering the McCormack for use with my new B&W 805 signarures which seem to like powerful solid state amps. Although if I had one of the floor standing B&W 800 series speakers I would deffinitely get the Bryston.


----------



## Calanctus

qwerty870, how do you like your Signature 805s? If you are considering changing amps, then you must feel there is room for improvement in your system, but I'd still be very interested in your impressions of this very new speaker.


----------



## qwerty870

I like my B&W 805s very much. I feel that they are an excellent mini-monitors. (I have a small room so I only listened to bookshelfs.) In many aspects I thought the 3A MM Da Capo was better, but they tend to work better with tubes and the B&W 805 seemed to sound better with solid state amps. Since I have a Rotel 1080 I got the B&W. However the B&Ws really deserve a better amp so I have been listening to a number of good solid state amps. So far I preffer the McCormack DNA225. It has less grain, and more clarity than the Rotel RB1080 (which I got for $650 on audiogon.) The DNA225 is also a tad more neutral and soundstages better, so that is probably my next upgrade. I feel guilty about writing about speakers and amps on a site dedicated to headphones, so I will leave it at that for now. However, I am considering upgrading my preamp, so if anyone has any suggestions about preamps under $4000 that might work well in my system I would be glad to hear them.


----------



## bkelly

Pigmode,

 I can't imagine Rick saying the References were the end of the line technically speaking (as far as transparency) because the Nites are a big jump ahead. ALso, you need to talk with Rickk about the interconnect phenomenon I experiencedd. He has a believeable explanation and one that has proven out by my experience. You also have to remember that the power cables and the interconnects are doing different jobs. 

 Anyhow, I think I'll stick with my earlier 
 comment that these things work in harmony with each other,.

 I hope that helps.







 Best
 Brian


----------



## pigmode

Brian, 
 I guess I'm making too a big thing out of it. Thanks for the info though, because It seems the Nite ICs may work best with a complete Nite package. That may explain DA's reaction to the Nite. Did you find the Nite IC to be rolled off at the top before you put in the Nite PC?


----------



## Calanctus

Just got a Zu Mother power cord at a great price. When I get a better amp, it will be waiting....


----------



## elybry

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Calanctus _
*

 No, it's not just you! A friend came over yesterday and listened--told me the same thing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I don't want to crap in this great thread too much, but what do you think might be good with the Offrandes? Here's what I'm considering: Belles 350A, PS Audio HCA-2, Bel Canto Design EVo 2 or 200.4 in bridged mode, Gamut D200, Bryston 7BST or 4BSST, McCormack DNA225. 

 When I get one, I'll definitely need another VD Ref. * 
 

Cal 

 I have the Bel Canto eVo6 bridged into 3 channels - a great amp. I have not noticed any weaknesses. I also have a Spectron another great amp, about 450 per channel, also no weaknesses. I was thinking also about the PS Audio but it was only 150 per channel and not bridgable. They are coming out with a 5 and 7 channel amp I believe.

 Sorry I have not had any new input but I have been slowly burning things in. Work, the Wife, and the kids definitely cramp my listening, although I can always get them to listen to a good movie. The ease and naturalness continue to amaze me. CDs that I had given up as harsh are now listenable. Bass is amazing as well as soundstage.

 I will try to change out more and do some comparisons soon.

 Carl


----------



## bkelly

Pigmode,

 I don't think I would say that the VD Nite interconnects rolled off any of the top end but what I experienced was a difference in cleanliness to thew verall sound but at the expense of some dynamic energy. It sounded better in every respeect but tho over all sound was tamer. When I put in the next Nite Power up the line everyting was screaming dynamics again.. Once again I should say that Rick has an explanation for this but I can' remember it.


 I hope that helps.

 I've thought the same thing about Dark Angels experience. Someday DA will definitely go total Nite series and then we will know for sure. It's just a matter of time before that happens.





 Best
 Brian


----------



## Calanctus

New amp deal closed and it's on its way. Based on inputs in this thread, when it comes I'll put my least expensive AC cord (the Zu Mother, which should also be here by then) on the amp, keeping the VD Ref cords on the source and "preamp" (Marantz SR9200).

 elybry thanks for your comments. I thought about the Bel Canto but could not find a good price on the .4 version...otherwise I might have tried it with bridging.


----------



## audioman

The VD Nite package continues to impress me. I believe that I am now truely seeing improvement over the Synergistic Research X series that I originally tried. I still do not even have the Nite Bi wire speaker cables yet, so more improvements to come I hope. 

 Also I found a cool piece of equipment for those not having enough optical inputs on their pre. I have 2 Satelitte recievers both optical out and only 1 optical imput on my Proceed AVP 2. But there is a Fostex COP-1 that converts optical to spidf, and passes bitstream so you can have Dolby Digital output. Seems to work well. Pretty cool only $50.

 Cant wait fpr the rest of my order as I still think there is a phasing problem since I am not using the Nite bi-wire speaker cables as of yet.


----------



## elybry

I had a chance to compare the nite biwires to my previous cable which was the spectron remote sense cables written up in audio asylum as a very favorable review with the spectron amp. These are designed to incorporate the speaker cables into the amp feedback loop theoretically eliminating the cable influence. I am here to tell you that the nites blew them away; a darker background, more air around instuments and vocals, more separation of instruments and vocalists but also with a more seamless integration, and bigger soundstage. Still have to incorporate another nite pc and ic and the center speaker.

 More to come.


----------



## elybry

Cal

 If your new amp fails to satisfy, I can give you the name of the dealer that I bought mine from. I think that he would give you a good deal.


----------



## Calanctus

Anyone tried the VD digital cable? 

 elybry thanks I'll keep that in mind. My amp is supposed to arrive end of next week and should be partially broken in already.


----------



## markl

"Anyone tried the VD digital cable?"

 acidtripwow had one but sold it recently because it was "too revealing", and had "too much detail" I believe he said. For me, there's no such thing as "too revealing" or "too much detail", so when I get the chance, I'll probably check out this cable too.


 markl


----------



## DarkAngel

Mark
 I don't see a Dac listed in your equipment, what would you need a digital cable for?

 I beleive Acid has gone back to his AZ Mc2 cable then (which is my choice) these can be had for less than $200 used at Audiogon, you would have to spend a small fortune to get significantly better sound IMO.

 Acid
 Give us the scoop on your Nite digital impressions.


----------



## markl

DA,
 I could use a digital cable for two purposes:

 1. Between my DVD player and my Denon AVR 5800 receiver for movies.

 2. For playing out loud through my PSB stratus Goldi's: I'd stick it between my Sony SCD-333ES with modwright transport mods (Modwright "accidentally" gave me the transport mods to my player which includes internal damping and replacement of the digital out section with a souped-up version) and my Denon 5800 which I must admit sounds better on Redbook CDs than the analog outs of my mod-ed 333ES. In Pure Direct stereo mode, the Denon uses 4 of the best DACs available per channel and upsamples to 24 bits. Sadly, there's no way to output this signal to my Melos Maestro for listening to Redbook CDs, so I have to use the mod-ed 333ES's analog outs when listening to Redbook CDs through my R10s (which is still quite nice, thank you very much!).

 markl


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*"Anyone tried the VD digital cable?"
 acidtripwow had one but sold it recently because it was "too revealing", and had "too much detail" I believe he said. For me, there's no such thing as "too revealing" or "too much detail", so when I get the chance, I'll probably check out this cable too.

 markl * 
 

Thanks markl. FYI I notice that acidtripwow's 'For sale' ad for this very cable has resurfaced in the Gear for Sale forum.


----------



## DarkAngel

*New Nite AC just arrived* 
 They have been slightly changed from Nite I got 1-2 months ago.
 Besides new label with "speed of light" graphics, the male plug is different, triangular shaped vs round on old Nite. Hard to keep with all the new changes to product line. Because I bi-amp and have headphone amp & Dac I need 6 AC cords, so this is about all I can afford as far as Nite AC cords go, total now is:
 - 2 Nite Ac
 - 4 Reference AC

 I think I mentioned previously I have sold all my other brands of AC cords, and have gone 100% VD, I really like them!

 I might also mention I now am running a complete AZ chain of IC cables: AZ Mc2 Digital -> AZ Silver Reference IC -> AZ Matrix Reference IC. I really like these also!


----------



## CosmicVoid

DA, what kind of speaker cable are you running and how are they?

 ********
 It's been about two and a half weeks now with the Power 3 and Power 1. There is definitely a treble roll off that is more noticeable with the 3 than the 1. This is especially true when hooked to the amp. The part of my system here under consideration is Musical Fidelity A3CD---> 1/2m Cardas Crosslink-->Onkyo TX DS747 Receiver(as a temporary pre)---> 1.5m Harmonic Technology Truthlink---> Anthem MCA 20 amp---> 10' pair single run Harmonic Technology Pro-11 speaker wire---> Paradigm Reference Studio 100v2.

 Much of what is wrong can be compensated by turning the Treble from neutral to say +.1 to +1 but I prefer to keep tone at neutral so it is switched out. I won't have tone controls once I get a real pre-amp in any case. Before adding the VD cables I wasn't at all unhappy with the treble response on my system as far as amount and timbre are concerned. The VD cables (the 1 to the CD and the 3 to the amp) have improved soundstaging dramatically. The bass has firmed up and most definitely does extend a bit lower now. Or at least I can better hear what is being played in the very low end now. This is probably because the cables (especially the 3) have a somewhat warming effect.

 The problem is that I want my cake and want to eat it too. I want to get back the treble that has been rolled off. I am actually suspicious that the trebe is not in fact as rolled off as I'm thinking but rather that these cables are just a tad warm in the lower frequencies and putting the treble out of balance in relation to everything else. Studio 100's are said by some to be a somewhat bright speaker but I don't find that particulary true and doubly so now. I am not willing to give up my gains made in soundstaging and the firmed up bass. 

 I want my treble back. Any suggestions? Do I get rid of one or both cables and go with the Reference? Nites are out of my budget as I have to pay for all this with Monopoly money (Canadian $$$).

 Thanks to any and all who might respond.

 T^2


----------



## pigmode

CV,
 I can't help thinking that your Onkyo is a major weak link in your system, and it might be the case that the VD PCs are revealing rather than rolled off. If your cdp has a non-digital vol. control, you can experiment with a direct connection to your amp. That should pretty much tell the story, I think.


----------



## CosmicVoid

PM

 I am of a similar mind on that one. Is it just that the VD's are revealing just how limited the receiver is? Problem is that I don't have the $3-$4k it would take to solve the pre-amp dilemma at the moment. But I do know where I can get a nice Sonic Frontiers Line 1 demo unit for C$2495 and maybe I could talk them down closer to two. They seem to have had the unit for a while. This is a decent tube pre. I have also been considering a Musical Fidelity A3.2 CR or 308 depending on which is better. Can't find much info on those two just yet. Problem is that the shop that sells them locally is staffed by a bunch of arrogant twits. I have also been considering a BAT VK3i but that would be down the road as it is a fair bit more expesive with a remote. Also on the wish list is a Simaudio Moon P5.

 Maybe a nice set of silver IC's between the CD and the Receiver to brighten things up again a little... replace the Cardas Crosslinks.

 T^2


----------



## DarkAngel

*Mr Cosmic* 
 Don't read any further if you value your wallet, I am suggesting more ways to spend your money. Also all my cables are listed in my profile if you want to see where I am coming from.

 If you have read previous posts you know I thought the VD P2 was noticeably warm toned and lacked treble extension, I sold mine. The VD Reference is better in all respects including more balanced presentation tonally, the Nite is even a little better.
 So if you can afford it Reference or maybe new Auditions are the way to go on a budget.

 Get some large brass cones from Mapleshade (or other make) to use under gear. This will clear things up and allow a more extended natural presentation.

 Definitely get new (used) preamp and ditch the receiver. Lots of great stuff for @ 1K used:
 -Musical Fidelity A3cr
 -Marsh
 -Blue Circle (tube)
 -Rogue 66 (tube)
 Many others, or get a decent integrated amp from Musical Fidelity, Plinius, Creek, Sim etc. and simplify things.

 I think you should also try to get a "used" set of silver ICs to try,
 for $100-250 you can get Homegrown Silver Lace or HT ProSilway II at Audiogon. If you don't like you can sell again for little cost to you.


----------



## pigmode

A pair of silver ICs can definitely help. The Silver Audio 4.0 and Appassionata ICs have great HF extension.


----------



## Calanctus

CosmicVoid, as you may recall I experienced the same thing. Here is what helped me get good treble again:
exchange Power 1's for Reference AC cords
switch from cheap speaker cables to silver 14/12 gauge DH Labs biwire. Probably it's both the gauge and the silver that's helping.

 I too am planning to sell my receiver and get a decent preamp (Bryston BP25) and amp (Pass Labs X150). Some comments in the thread here helped me to make that decision. Even though the components aren't here yet, I don't think I'll regret it (although my wallet does)
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .


----------



## CosmicVoid

Thanks for the input, most helpful and enlightning. I think I will try a pair of silver IC's between the CDP and the receiver. The speaker cables I already have are an excellant cable - Harmonic Technology Pro-11, a single crystal 11ga wire with excellent sonic characteristics. I wouldn't mind trying an AZ Silver Reference II but the price is way over a $1000 here. In Canada add about 50% in most cases to what you would pay in the USA. That's in Canadian dollars. Also our buying power is about 80% of an American with comparable income. Price is always a major consideration. Canadian made products can be had relatively inexpensively here. I live in a city of around 700,000 and not all audio brands are carried locally. For instance, if I wish to audition Blue Circle I would have to drive 14 hours to the nearest Canadian city that carries it. BC will conduct business by phone but they have a 10% restocking charge if you decide you don't want their product. I did have an opportunity to buy a BP25 not too long ago for a REALY good price - a demo unit - but as good as they are I have heard of too many comments about them being too dry and analytical which is not what I desire. I have been considering a newer Musical Fidelity pre when they finally get straightened out as to what is being produced and start publishig the specs but I haven't heard any reall buzz on the newer products yet - A3.2CR and A308CR. I do have a line on a Sonic Frontiers Line 1 demo unit. It as many know is on the bottle and if it is still withing 5 years of it's build date it will have some remaining warranty. The price they have listed is about 3/4 of regular retail. I was debating offering them 3-400$ less and seeing if they take it. The SF Line 1 was discontinued over a year ago as the SF and Anthem are owned by Paradigm and they no longer will be producing any tube products. There focus now will be on mult-channel products and Sonic Frontiers has be discontinuted altogether (sad). The Line 1 is well regarded by many. I have read a few excellent reviews and the buzz on AudioReview.com is positive. You have the option of cutomizing the sound a little by rolling tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . The Line 1 is said to be very neutral from top to bottom and also very extended on both ends. The ability to resolve detail is excellent. The only real major knock against is a slight dryness in the midrange which is normally the forte of tube gear. This of course can be remedied by changing tubes - there are 6 Sovtek 6922's standard in these pre's. There is an added bonus of a Headroom headphone amp built right in to these pre's! I might have to start listening to headphones again. Then again I may wait a year or two and go with a BAT VK3i or some such.

 My amp - Anthem MCA 20 - is 225 Wpc, I bought it last Easter and am very happy with it. It is priced similarly to the Rotel RB 1080 but doesn't slough off at low volume like the Rotel was reported to do in a Stereophile review. The MCA 20 amp is said to sound very similar to a Bryston amp but likely with out Bryston's legendary bass control but then again the Bryston costs twice as much.

 I find it interesting that Cal and I are complaining of rolled off treble as compared to the rest of us in this forum. Cal and I are both using a receiver as pre-amps. I am happy enough with my receiver when watching movies as I am not listening too critically to the sound. If the sound is good enough to be engaging then the equipment should disappear and the picture would be your focus.

 I am generally very happy with the VD PC's. I may yet order a Reference as suggested by some. My major complaint is not with the Power 1 but with the Power 3. It's just not as good a match for my amp as is the Power 1. But, having the P1 on the CDP does wonders to the soundstage. Perhaps I'll have to give Rick another call. Of course if I take the plunge on a pre I won't be buying any PC's or much of anything for a while including music. Can't let that credit beastie get out of control.

 Again all, thanks for the suggestions. I may not heed them but I will certainly listen and weigh the options!

 Peace,

 T^2


----------



## qwerty870

Hmm, no posts in a couple days. It seems this thread is finally starting to die. Did we make the record for the longest one?


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by CosmicVoid _
*I find it interesting that Cal and I are complaining of rolled off treble as compared to the rest of us in this forum. Cal and I are both using a receiver as pre-amps. I am happy enough with my receiver when watching movies as I am not listening too critically to the sound. If the sound is good enough to be engaging then the equipment should disappear and the picture would be your focus.* 
 

Many movie soundtracks have harsh treble. Receivers may be tuned to roll it off a bit so that movies sound better in the home. In theory, a really good receiver, like mine, should not do that, but maybe it still does and the power cords are just letting it come through...?

 My amp is delayed, annoyingly, and my Zu Mother also has yet to show up.


----------



## Dusty Chalk

Quote:


 _Originally posted by qwerty870 _
*Hmm, no posts in a couple days. It seems this thread is finally starting to die. Did we make the record for the longest one? * 
 

Nope.


----------



## Calanctus

So I got a Zu Mother today and tried it out in place of a VD Reference, connected to my CD player...my impression was that the sound got smaller somehow. No significant treble benefits. I'll stick with the VD cord and use the Zu Mother on the amplifier when (if) it finally arrives.


----------



## eric343

Damn, this thread has gone from $50 power cords to $1500 power cords... 

 So, o purchasers of the great and mind-bogglingly expensive, was it worth it? If you had had an opportunity to audition the Nites before the Power 3s, would you have bought them with the same MasterCard-loving eagerness? Or would you have whipped out the Super-Ultraplatinum-Executive Spendomatic Plastic even faster?

 And the big question - is there anything you _don't_ like? Are they the be-all-end all, or are you going to keep trying new interconnects, damping components, colors of felt tip marker, cable elevators, etcetera to find yet a better synergy?


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by eric343 _
*Damn, this thread has gone from $50 power cords to $1500 power cords... 

 So, o purchasers of the great and mind-bogglingly expensive, was it worth it? If you had had an opportunity to audition the Nites before the Power 3s, would you have bought them with the same MasterCard-loving eagerness? Or would you have whipped out the Super-Ultraplatinum-Executive Spendomatic Plastic even faster?

 And the big question - is there anything you don't like? Are they the be-all-end all, or are you going to keep trying new interconnects, damping components, colors of felt tip marker, cable elevators, etcetera to find yet a better synergy? * 
 

When I picked up this month's issue of Stereophile, I was amazed to see just how many tweaks are in the recommended products listing. Power cords, stands, sprays, markers, etc. etc. If Mike Fremer can hear it, maybe I can too...?


----------



## DarkAngel

Here are some serious brass cones:
Mapleshade Triple Points 

 This is what happens when you have six VD cords:
VD Cords 

*Cal* 
 In my system the Zu Mother had noticebly more treble energy vs VD Reference cord, but I preferred the Reference overall and sold all my other cords including Mothers.


----------



## Calanctus

DA, Nice pictures. Digital cameras are great!

 Without intending to, I will become the proud owner of yet another aftermarket power cord. This is a result of my amp deal falling through--the dealer had a demo for sale, charged my cc but had oversold, so I was going to have to wait for ? amount of time. I cancelled and ordered a PS Audio HCA2 amp...which included a bundled PS Audio Lab II power cord as a free bonus. I was told the power cord costs around $400 retail.

 The HCA2 is said to be very sensitive to the power cord, so I'll try the stock cord first, the Lab II and the VD Reference (my favourite of the 2 serious cords I have tried) to see what I prefer.


----------



## ServinginEcuador

I just checked the Virtual Dynamics web site, and found out that the Power 3, which was $150, is not being sold for $75!!!! Much closer to their original $50 introduction price, and, from what I have read so far, worth every penny!!


 Enjoy!

 Doug


----------



## bkelly

Friends,

 This thread will probably never die. We just need some new blood. Someone with some headroom on their credit cards. The rest of us are maxed out. 

 To eric343,

 I am not kidding you when I say if I had skipped the lower level cables and started with a Nite I would have absolutely stoked at the diffeence in quality. I am still as enthusiastic about these things as the daay I first heard them.

 DA,

 Nice pictures!

 Mark,

 It would be nice to hear from you a little more often.






 Best
 Brian 




 Best
 Brian


----------



## audioman

Still waiting for the Nite Biwire speaker cables hopefully next week. Been on the phone to Rick as I am now fully Nite with the exception of Component video and we have been disussing what the video package might look like. 

 I will once I get my Proceed CVP2 be paring that with the AVP2 an upcoverting all video (S-video and composite as well as HD and component pass thru) to component like in the Levinson No40. So am thinking what better component video cables than Nites? Rick feels they are awsome and giving what I am hearing with all the Nites I have now will just have to try them. 

 Cant wait to get exerything converted to Nites and make the final assesment....


----------



## ROB968323

Audioman,

 I've got a set of component nites and a nite power coming from Rick in about 2 weeks. I'll be using them with my rear projection HDTV. Rick says they're great....I hope so. I'll post my results when I get them. I'm currently using a reference PC to run my Audio Magic Stealth which runs my whole HT. It was a nice improvement over the stock Audio Magic Stealth pc. Let's see what the night pc can do....


----------



## markl

Quote:


 Mark,
 It would be nice to hear from you a little more often. 
 

Here I am BK! All's well (as well as could be, at least). Still greatly enjoying my VD cords. 

 Maybe we need to "fan out" here. How could anyone even contemplate another power cord here at Head-Fi after this thread? Maybe it's too long for the un-initiated after all.

 I could end this thread by starting a new one. I could compile everyone's opinions into a single post proclaiming the virtues of the VD cords. Or, we could just let this one be. What do you think, participants in the second longest thread in Head-Fi history?

 markl


----------



## Calanctus

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*
 I could end this thread by starting a new one. I could compile everyone's opinions into a single post proclaiming the virtues of the VD cords. Or, we could just let this one be. What do you think, participants in the second longest thread in Head-Fi history?

 markl * 
 

Don't end it! If it dies, let it die a natural death...but maybe it will resurface from time to time as someone new buys a VD cord.

 A compilation post (including any new inputs you have) sounds good though--really useful for anyone interested in these cords.


----------



## ServinginEcuador

I just looked at VD's home page and saw that their Audition Series interconnects are 1/2 price !! For those who have waited to upgrade their interconnects, this would seem like the perfect time to do so!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Normally priced at $400 for a meter, they are now only $200!!!!
 Here's the link for quick access:

http://www.virtualdynamics.ca/home/


 Lord Bless,

 doug p.


----------



## acs236

I should be getting one of these cords in the mail this week or next week. I'll probably try it with my home theater receiver first. Has anyone tried it with a powered subwoofer?


----------



## audioman

I now have a complete Nite setup. As a reminder here is the setup once again: 

 4 Nite Power Cords 

 1 - Proceed AVP2 Pre 
 1 - Proceed AMP 5 
 1 - Rotel 1080 CD/DVD 
 1 - ExactPower H15A 

 5 Nite Interconnects to form AVP2 to AMP5 L,R,C,RS,LS. 

 1 - Nite Sub Interconnect 

 1 – Nite Digital Cable

 3 Nite Speaker cables L, R, C Bi-Wired 
 (Just recieved these 9/25/2002)

 All is installed and running and has been now for approx 48 Hours. All I can say is these cables are very impressive!

 This system has come alive and I notice tighter more defined bass, more detail and instruments sound more natural and seperated with a bigger soundstage. Once I added the Bi-Wire Nite speaker cables I have to say the Nites package blew my old cables away hands down.

 Now that I have converted all my audio over to Nites and I will soon be going to Phase 2 and converting all my component video over to VD Nites and can’t wait. Will need a another Nite PC for the CVP2 I will be getting! I have to say that Rick has been great and has been a pleasure talking with him throughout this major uprade. He is now working on amps and I may have to try one when they are availiable.

 Also my previous comment :

 “Before I made the change I took an amp and wattage reading from my ExactPower unit and it was running at 774 Watts 6amps at room volume with all equipment on, after the change the unit reads 738 Watts and 6 amps at the same room volume (with all equipment on)”

 still holds and my amp does seem to be running slightly cooler.

 Any more comments from Carl or Brian or anyone else that may have an entire Nite package?


----------



## CosmicVoid

I have found my high frequency extension and "air"!!! Of course it took a new (used) preamp to get it. I bought a Sonic Frontiers Line 1 pre last night off a guy on Audiogon. Turns out he lived only 10 minutes away - bonus! I now have my Power 1 going to the Line 1 and my Power 3 going to the Anthem MCA 20 amp. This combination sounded better than putting one of these PC's to the Musical Fidelity A3CD CDP. Of course the new purchase means that I will have to get another PC. I will probably get a Reference for the CDP. I am currently using a pair of Straighwire Encore II from the CDP to the pre and will look to replace them down the road with something along the way of HT/Zen/Silver Audio cables. I can run a balanced connection between the pre and the amp so somewhere down the road I will get a silver cable for this as well but it is not urgent. The VD cables make a good noticeable improvement to my sound in the system as I have it now. And, these are two of the more affordably priced PC's available from VD. My conclusion is that using a surround receiver as a pre can get you by but you lose extension and definition on both frequency ends. Bass is also much better definded with the new pre and I can't believe all the detail I am hearing! The SFI Line 1 comes with a HeadRoom amplifier built in but unfortunately I have been unable to try it out as my headphones are kaput and the guy who sold me the pre sold his HD 600's to someone else. But, I have to stop the insanity. I have spent far too much money in the last while. So unless I come across a steal of a used deal I won't be buying anymore hardware for a little while. But I do need a PC for my CDP...

 T^2


----------



## TB1

Well count me in as a new VD fan. Recently I purchased acidtripwow's Nite Digital cable. To cut to the chase I'm enjoying the best redbook playback I've ever had in my system (333ES to Full Nelson Link Dac/PowerBase). I had been going back and forth between AZ mc2 and Synergistic Research resolution reference and found the Nite to easily better them in terms of soundstage (esp. front to back depth) and the bass (much more extension yet still tight and fast). This was a bigger upgrade than adding the DAC, using a Monarcy DIP or upsampling (in my rig). The only drawback is the size of this thing - it's huge and heavy so careful installation is a must. 
 So.....naturally I'm starting to check out more VD stuff. The next to arrive was one of the Basic Cryo Power cords (yup the 35$ one). This is the best entry level PC I've ever seen. Built like a tank - big and heavy- well constructed and dressed in white. Although physically big it is quite flexable in a floppy sort of way and not too bad to install. I hooked up my amp (displacing a PS Audio Lab-also huge but much stiffer and harder to deal with) and dynamics (impact) improved in a -big -way. Unbelieveable performance for such an affordable cable ($35 vs $500). These VD guys are on to something..............


----------



## audioman

Quote:


 _Originally posted by TB1 _
*Well count me in as a new VD fan. Recently I purchased acidtripwow's Nite Digital cable. To cut to the chase I'm enjoying the best redbook playback I've ever had in my system (333ES to Full Nelson Link Dac/PowerBase). I had been going back and forth between AZ mc2 and Synergistic Research resolution reference and found the Nite to easily better them in terms of soundstage (esp. front to back depth) and the bass (much more extension yet still tight and fast). * 
 

I totally agree. I have even tried the new Synergistic Res Ref X-series (and returned them and the VD nites blew them away. I changed my entire system over and am working on the video now with Rick.

 Steve


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

I just ordered VD audition interconnects and a power series one cable... and I have no amp to use them with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Biggie.


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## audioman

sounds expensive to me


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## eric343

Damn, Rick /IS/ a good salesman, isn't he...

 Why'd you get them?


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

I plan on ordering a KG dynamic, just waiting for a little more cash... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hrrrrm I will have a cable worth more then my source... is that wrong?

 Biggie.


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## bkelly

Friends,

 Sorry I have been away for almost a monbth with incredible computer problems but now it looks like it is over. Good to see the thread is still going strong. Keep up the good wortk.

 Mark,

 What is with the new icon? 





 Best
 Brian


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## pigmode

Brian,
 I have a new amp that has just arrived this past Wed. I'll be needing a new PC after I have about 200 hours of burn-in, but have not decided on a Ref. or a Nite. I believe now that my system is finally worthy of the Nite, so we'll see.


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## audioman

What amp did you buy?


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## CosmicVoid

Have ordered the complete Audition package. It should be here Tuesday - Monday is Thanksgiving here. I can't wait to try this out to see how well the synergy that VD talks about works in my system. I will give my impressions once I've had the chance to let everything break in.

 T^2


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## markl

Quote:


 Mark,
 What is with the new icon? 
 

Why, I'm glad you asked! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's Scott Walker, the Existential Frank Sinatra:

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=17806

 Mark


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## pigmode

Quote:


 _Originally posted by audioman _
*What amp did you buy? * 
 

The Fi X. It's a 2A3 SET, and I can't say enough about it, as it is a major step above my Quicksilvers.


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## Hirsch

It's been awhile since I posted to this thread, which has gone way past my Power 3's, but I had a nice conversation with Rick today, and suspect I'll have something to say in the near future...


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## markl

He he.

 Well, Hirsch, let us know what it is and where it's going! Don't be a tease like Vertigo-1!! That's not fair!!!!!

 Mark


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## audioman

Just ordered a nite component video cable and another nite power today. That just about finishes me off with all nite, unless I convert my S video over to nite composite???


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## jude

I tried, and then cut open, one of the Virtual Dynamics Basic Power cords. *Click here* to read about it.


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## bkelly

JUde,

 I just read about cable surgery experience. Pretty interesting and not what I expected, either. I don't think I had any idea how they were made (apparently there is more info on their website than I remember or they've added stuff).) I've listened to Rick's explanations on the VD cables and from my experiences with his cables I figure that he must be on to something but I can't undersand his explanations, either. What is not over my head is how well these things work. 

 Anyhow, I've enjoyed you cable surgery post so far but I can't wait until you hack into a Nite Series cable.






 Best
 Brian


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## DarkAngel

Quote:


 _Originally posted by Hirsch _
*It's been awhile since I posted to this thread, which has gone way past my Power 3's, but I had a nice conversation with Rick today, and suspect I'll have something to say in the near future...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


* 
 

Hirsch will have to come clean soon, I would say his cables either have arrived or will any day now.......I hope he got at least a Reference or higher model AC cord. He is using a P3 now, can you imagine the look on his face when he compares the two, on good stereo system it will take about 30 seconds of one track to realize his P3 is history. (with AC cord broken in properly)


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## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by DarkAngel _
*Hirsch will have to come clean soon, I would say his cables either have arrived or will any day now.......I hope he got at least a Reference or higher model AC cord. He is using a P3 now, can you imagine the look on his face when he compares the two, on good stereo system it will take about 30 seconds of one track to realize his P3 is history. (with AC cord broken in properly) * 
 


 I'm doing a complete system rewire, and wanted to get the best I could. Rick has run them through his cable cooker, and they should be en route. The only problem is I'm not sure what cables I'm supposed to use during the day...


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## markl

Jude,
 I publicly challenge you to try one of VD's better cables-- even a "lowly" Power 1 ($199 retail but actually available for less), or an Audition or Reference power cable. These are much more fair competition for your $350 Tsunami cable (VD marketing hyperbole or no).

 I'm sure you're up to it, and I wouldn't be surprised if VD was up to loaning you any cable of theirs for an evaluation, but again, I do not pretend to speak for them. I know what my ears have heard, and what has been verified by many Head-Fi'ers since-- these cables are special. No one here has tried a Basic Cable-- we've all started at the Power 3 or above, and you should do likewise.

 What do you say?

 Mark


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## bkelly

Jude,

 Take up Mark's challenge, please. While the "magic dust" and Home Depot remarks are funny they do a disservice to what is one of the most significant audio upgrades available. Notice that I don't call this a tweak anymore. It really is more like a major component upgrade. I don't think you could do better by spending the same amount upgrading amplifiers for example. 

 So, put the knife away and call Rick, PLEASE!






 Best
 Brian


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## Hirsch

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*I publicly challenge you to try one of VD's better cables-- even a "lowly" Power 1 ($199 retail but actually available for less), or an Audition or Reference power cable. These are much more fair competition for your $350 Tsunami cable (VD marketing hyperbole or no).* 
 

Grow up. Jude listened to a VD product and posted his impression. That's fair, and VD will survive a negative comment on the Basic. However, your're overrreacting like a manufacturer representative to a bad review. I'm getting some VD cables and will post my impressions. Based on my experience with their entry-level cables, I'm optimistic, but I will say what I hear, not what I expect. Others are of course entitled to their own opinions. If you don't take diversity of opinion quite so personally, it makes forum interactions much more pleasant.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Quote:


 _Originally posted by markl _
*No one here has tried a Basic Cable-- we've all started at the Power 3 or above, and you should do likewise.

 Mark * 
 

Fredpd started with the basic cable and said he couldn't tell the difference. On the other hand, I have not read anyone say anything negative about power 3 or above, so many good comments its crazy. I've got the power 1 just waiting to be used. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Biggie.


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## bkelly

Hirsch,
 Since I don't know you personally but only through your posts here at Head-Fi which have always been very civil I was surprised at your comments to "markl" and thought they were a little harsh. Nothing he said seemed to merit that response but maybe I am seeing things that are not there. I hope so.

 I will add that due to Jude's stature and postion at Head-Fi his comments carry as much weight as anyone at Head-Fi and muh more than most so a negative from him is a little more noteworthy.

 I think Mark is right in suggesting that Jude get another cable and not just an entry level model that would be the least likely to show what the VD cables can really do compared to the rest of those offered in VD's considerable catalog. 

 I will add that I don't necessatilly find anything wrong with Jude's post either but I do think we should keep our eye on the ball here and, even though build quality or engineering principles are an issure, we should keep our opinions focused on what things sound like and forget what falls out of the cable.

 I hope you take this as it is intended. I just thought that since you generally seem like a reasonable person your somewhat harsh comments seemed out of character.

 I should say here that even though I know Mark on a more personal level than I know most Head-Fi'es my opinions here have nothing to do with that relationship. I am not sticking up for him just because we are friendly. I just think we are getting a little off the subject.

 Other than that I need to talk to you about some tubes.





 Best
 Brian


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## audioman

Still waiting for my Nite component video cables and they will hopefully arrive in the next few weeks. Has anyone else tried the component video cables ? I am very pleased with all the recent purchases of the Nite audio cables, so I will let all know just how good the video cables are compared to my expensive Tara Labs cables.
 I am also going to try replacing all the s-video cables with Ricks Night's RCA cables to see exactly the difference is.

 I will be upconverting the svideo and rca signals to component video using the Proceed CVP2 and trying many different combinations.


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## markl

As stated at the start of this thread, there is a consolidated, easy to read, and edited version here: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...825#post218825

 Mark


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