# Schiit Gungnir DAC



## WarriorAnt

http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=11
   
   

   
 Estimated shipping date August 2012.   
   
$749.00 / $849 with USB


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## MorbidToaster

I might end up with this pair when the DAC hits in August.
   
  Good track record from Schiit and this just looks fantastic...The lack of AES is a little disappointing, but screw it...I want one...
   
  EDIT: *Completely Buzzword Compliant* (I laughed)
   
  Also...The amp has a pre-out _-squee-_


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## clarknova

I just ...Schiit my pants.
   
  Can't wait.


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## elwappo99

Interesting... looks like theyll have a balanced amp to go with it. This is quite a hefty price point for a DAC. Schiit has done well in the midrange, let's see how they do in the upper tiers.


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## DarknightDK

Schitt is heading in the right direction, I can't wait to see what they bring with their statement line of DACs / amps.


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## sonq

I'm getting one. With audio veteran Mike Moffat helming the design, sound quality should be top notch and reliable. 

The industrial design is top notch & is important to me too. I just find it difficult to pay for tacky looking stuffs - over the top styling or graphics, and dated design passing off as retro.


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## Mauricio

XLR line out?


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## Maxvla

Also getting one when they release. Will upgrade from Bifrost or perhaps will have something else in the mean time that is a step up from that.


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## Mauricio

There's always the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC-A.


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## Vargtass

No one has heard it yet, righto? 
   
  I'm SO on the fence between this one and the Nad M51 dac. Can get a damn good deal on the NAD, but it's still more expensive than the Gungnir. To add to this, I've got a Mjolnir in the post coming my way, and it would be damn nice to have a matching set of amp / dac. Not that the M51 is ugly or very far from the Mjolnir in design, but it's not the same. 
   
  So ... sonically, can we expect them to perform pretty equal, or would you guys think that the Gungnir will seriously outgun the M51?


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## nigeljames

Quote: 





vargtass said:


> No one has heard it yet, righto?
> 
> I'm SO on the fence between this one and the Nad M51 dac. Can get a damn good deal on the NAD, but it's still more expensive than the Gungnir. To add to this, I've got a Mjolnir in the post coming my way, and it would be damn nice to have a matching set of amp / dac. Not that the M51 is ugly or very far from the Mjolnir in design, but it's not the same.
> 
> So ... sonically, can we expect them to perform pretty equal, or would you guys think that the Gungnir will seriously outgun the M51?


 
   
  I don't know how any one could expect the Gungnir to outgun the Nad given the difference in price and the very good reviews the Nad has been getting but the Gungnir should be a sure thing with your Mjolnir with regards synergy.
   Have you had any Schiit before?


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## Vargtass

Hey Nigeljames - and thanks for the response. 
   
  I've previously owned the Lyr - an excellent amp paired with my LCD-2's. Only sold that to make way for the Mjolnir, really. 
   
  And well, I guess there is still a price difference between the M51 and the Gungnir, but couldn't that be attributed to all the (in my opinion) silly bells and whistles on the M51? I'm pretty much after good stereo sound, that's it. Not HDMI, not a preamp - nothing of that. 
   
  If you're saying that the NAD actually delivers at least "on pair" with the Gungnir I'll have to sit down and ponder. Can get rid of my DacMagic right now, but that would mean I'd need another dac - and the M51 is available now. Hrmf - hard to make a decision.


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## nigeljames

Quote: 





vargtass said:


> Hey Nigeljames - and thanks for the response.
> 
> I've previously owned the Lyr - an excellent amp paired with my LCD-2's. Only sold that to make way for the Mjolnir, really.
> 
> ...


 
   
  If you don't want the 'bells & whistles' then I agree I would not spend the extra on the Nad.
  I was in the same situation when I was buying a DAC. Was considering the Anedio D1 and Audio-gd NFB7. Even though the D1 was slightly cheaper it also had extras like pre-amp and headphone amp neither of which I wanted or needed so I went with the NFB7 and could not be happier. So I agree don't waste your money on features you don't want or need.
   
  I would at least wait until some opinions on the Gungnir are available. I am looking forward to the Schiilt statement gear especially the hybrid amp, could be interesting.
  Have you considered any other DAC's?


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## Vargtass

Thing is - I can (as I may have stated previously) get a pretty good discount on the M51. We're talking 20% off, making it just a tad more expensive than the Gungnir. 
   
  I can't really see any other dacs I want per now. It's either the Gungnir matching my Mjolnir amp, or it's the M51 because it seems to get raving reviews, is available in a store 10 minutes away from me by foot and because I can have 20% off at that store.


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## grokit

From where I sit 20% off is still $1600, more than 2x a Gungnir. I like the aes/ebu input and the volume control of the M51, but not that much.


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## Vargtass

The price in Norway is apparently radically different. I'll pay 1300ish usd for the M51 in Norway with my discount. 
   
  The Gungnir is 850 with usb, plus 150ish usd shipping we're talking 1k. Then I have to add 25% tax taking it into Norway. Oh lord, what a gimpy country I live in ...


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## grokit

That is radically different


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## ishmael

I like how quickly we are to assume this Schiit unit will be in the same league as the NAD M51, which by all accounts is one of the best (affordable) dacs out there right now. I won't rehash the Asgard incident but I have some serious doubts about the Schiit designers and their attention to detail. I mean, it could be an amazing dac. But let's not automatically assume so.


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## wkhanna

Early impressions on the Mjolnir appear favorable, and Schitt is delayed 1 – 2 weeks on current orders. Could this be foretelling delays for the Gungnir release date? I have heard nothing on the status of the new DAC.
   
  I am on the pre-order list & my Bifrost will be on the used market the second the Gungnir hits my doorstep. Realistically, I am hoping it ships by mid to late Sept. I will not be upset in the least though. My Bifrost recently went up against my best friend’s CA 840 CDp & his new B&W 802di’s.  Keep in mind the finite detail & resolution provide by the B&W’s brings V small differences between sources into clear view. Minor variances would be V difficult to decern in lesser systems.
   
  Quote from my friend;
  “_I had Bill’s Bifrost hooked up in my system for a day and I’d say it’s about 85% of my Cambridge Audio 840c as a DAC. It’s so similar that when I’d go back and forth while the same song was playing (had both outputted at the same time from the computer so all I did was change inputs on the Pre) that I was easily able to tell where the differences were. The CA 840c just had a slightly better soundstage and focus and was like a “snapping” of everything in focus over the BiFrost. This is on the minute scale mind you, sort of that lifting of a veil over to speakers type of thing._
   
_I told Bill I’m very impressed that BiFrost (for the cost) is almost everything my 804c is at 3x the price of it!?!? Pretty cool. In Fact, I’m waiting to see if the new Schiit dac is either better than my 840c, or the Schiit Statement DAC is better (guessing it will be) and I’m going to move to that. If not, then I’ll probably drop the money on a new NAD M51 DAC since everyone says there’s none better under $5k or possibly $10k…”_
   
  So whenever the Gungnir makes its debut is fine with me, I can easily live with my Bifrost till then.


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## Solude

For me it comes down to how the Mjolnir performs.  If its great, like beats everything that came before it great, then I'll get a Gungnir too.  If its simply another $750 amp in a long line of competent amps in that range... then no the Gungnir won't come in and I'll wait for the 'statement' gear to release.  My hope is that they are world beaters, but until I hear it... meh.


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## .Sup

solude said:


> For me it comes down to how the Mjolnir performs.  If its great, like beats everything that came before it great, then I'll get a Gungnir too.  If its simply another $750 amp in a long line of competent amps in that range... then no the Gungnir won't come in and I'll wait for the 'statement' gear to release.  My hope is that they are world beaters, but until I hear it... meh.



I will do the other way around though your decision makes more sense but I am more in need of another dac (flavour) than amp.


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## wkhanna

Why so quiet here?
  Is there another Gungnir thread?
  Only two days till the expiration on the predicted ship date and not word on the status.


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## wkhanna

OK
  I just found this post from over two weeks ago at the 'Neck Deep' thread
   
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Still slated for August, but it will just squeak in, it looks like. We're not going to announce orders until we actually have stock--new policy thanks to the Mjolnir


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## wkhanna

From the Schitt web site 1 Sep:
   
*NOTE: Production of Gungnir has begun. We will open a very short pre-order next week, and expect to be shipping that same week.*


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## Solude

Photos please.


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## adrianpkms

Quote: 





wkhanna said:


> From the Schitt web site 1 Sep:
> 
> *NOTE: Production of Gungnir has begun. We will open a very short pre-order next week, and expect to be shipping that same week.*


 
  Do they mean that I will have to wait for a longer time after that very short pre order period?


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





adrianpkms said:


> Do they mean that I will have to wait for a longer time after that very short pre order period?


 
  I believe they're trying not to be backordered as badly as in the past. With Mjolnir they seemed to barely stay ahead, same idea here.


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## grokit

It would be nice to have some details re the statement DAC's features and price point before deciding on the Gungnir.


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





grokit said:


> It would be nice to have some details re the statement DAC's features and price point before deciding on the Gungnir.


 
  +1 I think pricing is the only relative info we've gotten, which is around $1400 or so. But anything is subject to change.
   
  Edit: Maybe this states all the difference. " Even though the statement stuff will redefine everything, and will have technology not available elsewhere, at any price."


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## wkhanna

Quote: 





adrianpkms said:


> Do they mean that I will have to wait for a longer time after that very short pre order period?


 
  [size=medium]IIRC, there were a set # of pre-orders being accepted.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]If you signed up on the pre-order list, you will have a limited opportunity to place your order.[/size]
  [size=medium]I’m guessing at the end of the pre-order time period, all other orders will be accepted in chronological order. [/size]
   
  [size=medium]So in answer to your question, _I guess_ we will get our Gungnirs about the time Helheim freezes over.  ; )[/size]
   
  [size=medium](edit in _italics_)[/size]


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## Roscoeiii

And it is out (shipping begins next week according to this order page link):
   
   
  http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=11


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## paradoxper

Finally. Order in. #2406


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## wkhanna

Order# 2408 confirmed.


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## jackiedh

Order # 2401
   
  Jack


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## DarknightDK

Its finally shipping! Looking forward to the impressions.


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## Maxvla

Ordered one with a Mjolnir. Looking forward to seeing what they can do.


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## Audiolic

wow now they should make a low cost but perfect Statnir to power my ESP950 and others stats..


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## Maxvla

Stat amps are a no go for Schiit, already asked.


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Stat amps are a no go for Schiit, already asked.


 
  Too niche or did Jason simply say na?


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## Maxvla

Cited worker hazard, IIRC.


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## grokit

^ Lol. Personally I wouldn't want that kind of voltage near my head either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I decided not to wait around on this one. My Gungnir's all paid up, looking forward to a shipping notice!


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## RedBull

What voltage? It's only 600 volts, no?


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## paradoxper

BHSE is 400 volts, 1600V PP, IIRC.


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## RedBull

1600V? No kidding ....


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





redbull said:


> 1600V? No kidding ....


 
  Hahaha yea. I think it was said that EC Electra is over 2000.


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## Argo Duck

Hesitating. The few hints about the statement dac are awfully tantalizing!


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## bensl

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> Hesitating. The few hints about the statement dac are awfully tantalizing!


 

 care to share those 'hints'?  very interested...


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## paradoxper

Aren't the only few hints about statement DAC price and new technology?


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## Argo Duck

Look here. HeroKid did a great job pulling Jason's comments together in that first post. To this Maxlva (IIRC) just added in the Mjolnir thread there are some issues they're working on with the statement DAC. It's not a finalized product by any means.
   
  So yep, not much to go on. It's the new technology, ground-breaking talk that interests me.
   
  Then again, a DAC in the hand is probably worth a multitude on the design pad...


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## wkhanna

[size=medium]My credit card co. froze my account and sent me an email telling me to [/size][size=medium]call them right away[/size][size=medium].[/size]
   
  [size=medium]When I did, they said there had been recent suspicious activity regarding the account.[/size]
  [size=medium]It seems some company called 'schit’ had posted a transaction in an amount higher than typically seen by the account. They wanted me to confirm that I was aware of the purchase and it was in fact a legitimate purchase. [/size]
   
  [size=medium]True story, I schiit you not![/size]
   
  [size=medium]I am still laughing to myself hours later.[/size]


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## tdockweiler

Quote: 





wkhanna said:


> [size=medium]My credit card co. froze my account and sent me an email telling me to [/size][size=medium]call them right away[/size][size=medium].[/size]
> 
> [size=medium]When I did, they said there had been recent suspicious activity regarding the account.[/size]
> [size=medium]It seems some company called 'schit’ had posted a transaction in an amount higher than typically seen by the account. They wanted me to confirm that I was aware of the purchase and it was in fact a legitimate purchase. [/size]
> ...


 
   
  This doesn't mean that banks will flag an account just because of Schiit. Banks are stupid. I once bought postage stamps at the post office (run by the government!) and got a call for verification! I swear that if I bought a Twinkie in another state my bank (Chase) would want to verify it.
  Every time I buy something from Japan I get a call for verification. It's not a service, but more like harassment. I've had my Credit Card info stolen once and they never caught the bad transactions.


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## wkhanna

[size=medium]I felt bad for the poor girl on the other end of the line.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]She is like, "Yes Sir, there is a charge from a company called SH.....ahhh.....Sheeee......errr...ah.....i'm not sure how to say......shhhhhyyyy".[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I politely interrupted, but only after I left her floundering for longer than I should have, curmudgeon that I am. At least I did not laugh out loud at her.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I told her, "It is OK. And yes, it is pronounced just like you think. Don't worry. It is an honest company & I am aware that the order was placed".[/size]


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## wkhanna

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> This doesn't mean that banks will flag an account just because of Schiit. Banks are stupid. I once bought postage stamps at the post office (run by the government!) and got a call for verification! I swear that if I bought a Twinkie in another state my bank (Chase) would want to verify it.
> Every time I buy something from Japan I get a call for verification. It's not a service, but more like harassment. I've had my Credit Card info stolen once and they never caught the bad transactions.


 
  [size=medium]I did not intend to imply that the ‘name’ only was the trigger.[/size]
  [size=medium]Only that I found it quite funny.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I am not upset that their algorithm flagged my activity. Still, I would never let it provide a false sense of security.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Last time I went to Europe, I called my (different) bank to let them know I would be out of the country and using my card. They acted all snotty saying that the card worked all over the world (like I was stupid not to know & I was basically wasting their time).[/size]


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## RedBull

wkhanna said:


> I felt bad for the poor girl on the other end of the line.
> 
> She is like, "Yes Sir, there is a charge from a company called SH.....ahhh.....Sheeee......errr...ah.....i'm not sure how to say......shhhhhyyyy".
> 
> ...




This is very funny, surely I will tell my friends about this. Cheers!!!


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## Bolardito

Quote: 





wkhanna said:


> [size=medium]My credit card co. froze my account and sent me an email telling me to [/size][size=medium]call them right away[/size][size=medium].[/size]
> 
> [size=medium]When I did, they said there had been recent suspicious activity regarding the account.[/size]
> [size=medium]It seems some company called 'schit’ had posted a transaction in an amount higher than typically seen by the account. They wanted me to confirm that I was aware of the purchase and it was in fact a legitimate purchase. [/size]
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





wkhanna said:


> [size=medium]My credit card co. froze my account and sent me an email telling me to [/size][size=medium]call them right away[/size][size=medium].[/size]
> 
> [size=medium]When I did, they said there had been recent suspicious activity regarding the account.[/size]
> [size=medium]It seems some company called 'schit’ had posted a transaction in an amount higher than typically seen by the account. They wanted me to confirm that I was aware of the purchase and it was in fact a legitimate purchase. [/size]
> ...


 
  You made me laugh..funny story.


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## adrianpkms

Quote: 





wkhanna said:


> [size=medium]I felt bad for the poor girl on the other end of the line.[/size]
> 
> [size=medium]She is like, "Yes Sir, there is a charge from a company called SH.....ahhh.....Sheeee......errr...ah.....i'm not sure how to say......shhhhhyyyy".[/size]
> 
> ...


 
  Rofl
  The name sure sounds suspicious, and I have once in a similar situation.
  It took quite some time to get the money wired.


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## RedBull

Yeah, the name sounds like hacker kind of activity.


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## bensl

have any reviews surfaced yet??


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## paradoxper

No shipments yet.


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## grokit




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## Maxvla

grokit said:


>



Interestingly the first two have the fingers operating in the wrong order.


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## grokit

That's the way I do it too, but perhaps robot guys are different than animators (which would make us robot guys).


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## niten

Looking forward to first impressions and reviews on the gungnir.
  I've got to keep an eye on this thread.


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## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Interestingly the first two have the fingers operating in the wrong order.


 
  It's a picture of a cat wearing a backward baseball cap and impatiently shuffling his fingers......and the order of the finger shuffle is the thing you find difficult to accept? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  You're either highly OCD, or you've been owned by a lot of cats.....


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## Maxvla

Well the theme of each picture is the tapping of the fingers...


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## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Well the theme of each picture is the tapping of the fingers...


 

 There's no way way can save yourself...the finger tapping rapper cat seems normal to you, the order he rotates his 4 fingers is what bothers you.  There's no graceful way to spin that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  To really get into your head, I'll agree with grokit...that _is_ the order I do it too...the one on the bottom is the backward one to me


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## Questhate

Maybe the order of finger tapping has to do with southern vs. northern hemisphere, like which way your toilet water flushes? I do it the robot way (bottom picture) as well.


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## grokit

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> To really get into your head, I'll agree with grokit...that _is_ the order I do it too...the one on the bottom is the backward one to me


 
   
  Actually I was agreeing with *Maxvla* that the top two are wrong, in that I do it the bottom/robot way!


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## Maxvla

iemcrazy said:


> There's no way way can save yourself...the finger tapping rapper cat seems normal to you, the order he rotates his 4 fingers is what bothers you.  There's no graceful way to spin that :tongue_smile:
> 
> To really get into your head, I'll agree with grokit...that _is_ the order I do it too...the one on the bottom is the backward one to me :bigsmile_face:



Actually he said he does it the same way as me. You are the only one so far going the other direction.

Err... Guess I should read all replies before I post.


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## wkhanna

Per this conversation I recenlty had over at the Mjolnir thread, Gungnir may begin shipping as soon as tomorrow.
   
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/603218/schiit-mjolnir-headphone-amplifier/1170#post_8696363


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## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Actually he said he does it the same way as me. You are the only one so far going the other direction.
> Err... Guess I should read all replies before I post.


 
   
  I just learned that if I do it with my right hand, I do it the robot way.  If I do it with my left hand I do it the top way.  And I'm more prone to do it with my left hand.  It's a fascinating study of the human brain.
   
  The Mjolnir thread: Come for the DAC, stay for the neurology!
   
  Does that count toward expectation bias?


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## Maxvla

It's Friday, anyone get a shipping notice? I was #10 on interest list. Haven't gotten a notice yet.


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## wkhanna

Me either.
N*ope, * nein, nicht, *[size=12pt]も…ない, Não, [/size]*[size=12pt]Nej,[/size][size=12pt] *لا*, Nada.[/size]
  [size=12pt]Have not heard a word.[/size]


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## paradoxper

Nope. I bugged Alex, havent' received a response. My order is overnighted so I may be one of the first to receive their orders.


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## paradoxper

They won't be shipping this week. They are stress testing them through the weekend.


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## Argo Duck

Thus stress-testing expectant Gungir owners too!  Here's hoping DACs and head-fiers both make it through


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## niten

I wonder what they are using to stress test the new DAC.


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## wkhanna

That is fine with me.
  If there are issues, I prefer they are found & corrected BEFORE I get my DAC, not after.
  I have been in quality engineering for a while, so I apprciate the the steps they are taking.
  Thanks for the update, Paradoxper.


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## wkhanna

Quote: 





niten said:


> I wonder what they are using to stress test the new DAC.


 
  [size=medium]I can just imagine 10 or 20 poor Gungnirs locked up in room for days with Mike Moffat, being interrogated and water-boarded ala Guantanamo Bay. [/size]


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





wkhanna said:


> [size=medium]I can just imagine 10 or 20 poor Gungnirs locked up in room for days with Mike Moffat, being interrogated and water-boarded ala Guantanamo Bay. [/size]


 
  But it's not just Mike, there's also some of his knuckle-draggers. Double the trouble.


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## grokit

Hmm... wondering what's up with this Schiit. Hopefully the stress test hasn't been _too_ stressful.


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## wkhanna

7:00 pm est & just saw this on the Schiit site:
   
*STATUS: Shipments begin today, September 17, with good supply by the end of the week. Orders placed now will ship in 1-2 weeks.*


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## wkhanna

Just checked my account at Shiit........
   
  My order# 2408 still listed as  "*Processing*" as opposed to 'Shipped'.


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## Maxvla

Jason told me Wed. Looking forward to comparing the Mjolnir.


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## grokit

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Jason told me Wed. Looking forward to comparing pairing with the Mjolnir.


 
   
  Fixed!


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## Maxvla

Guess I should have been more clear. I ordered the pair of mid tier. Upgrading from Bifrost to Gungnir but then deciding between the Mjolnir and Bryston.


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## m2man

Mine Shipped, woot!


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## paradoxper

Quote: 





m2man said:


> Mine Shipped, woot!


 
  Ah, congrats. I guess the one picked out for me failed sound check. So here's to another week of push-back.


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## wkhanna

Quote: 





m2man said:


> Mine Shipped, woot!


 
  Excellent!
  What was your order#?


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## m2man

2423, though it may have more to do with when you signed up for email as interested. Who knows.


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## Questhate

Yep -- the pre-orders are being shipped according to wait list, not order number. 
   
  Sucks for me because I took my sweet time joining the wait list, although I knew I was going to get the Gungnir from day one. Oh well, can't make everyone happy. I'm sure we'll all be happy once we're plugged in and enjoying our new rigs. 
   
  Glad to hear they're taking time to stress test everything. I'd rather wait a bit longer than increase the likelihood of RMA's. Here's hoping to be plugged in by this weekend.


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## wkhanna

Yep, I got on the wait list very early, but I have no idea how many are in front of me.


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## paradoxper

Funny I can't remember how early or late I got on the list. Early enough I suppose, if it wasn't for a weak Gungnir
  I'd be listening to my new Schiit stack by now. But no!


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## SourceGuy

I'm dying here. Mine is still in 'pre-order' status. Haven't anxiously awaited a product like this since my Clearaudio Concept.


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## bensl

Looking forward to reading some reviews. Can't bring myself to order unheard!


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## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Funny I can't remember how early or late I got on the list. Early enough I suppose, if it wasn't for a weak Gungnir
> I'd be listening to my new Schiit stack by now. But no!


 
   
  Look on the bright side, Jason's doing the burn-in for everyone.  That way the magic bits will be warmed up already when they arrive!


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## SourceGuy

Anyone receive theirs yet?


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## grokit

I think that only one unit has been shipped.


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## paradoxper

Mine is shipping for sure today.


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## wkhanna

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I think that only one unit has been shipped.


 
  I think it is not mine, seeing as how my order# 2408 status still reads as 'Preorder'.
  I wonder if Mike & team found a 'weak link', & some component re-work/replacement is in progress?
  I was hoping to have my unit before next weekend, but being that I am on the East coast, that seems highly unlikely at this point.


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## wkhanna

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Mine is shipping for sure today.


 
  Were you having yours shipped' Next Day'?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





wkhanna said:


> Were you having yours shipped' Next Day'?


 
  Wkhanna, did you send Alex a message to see if your Gungnir failed the testing? Mine was in the batch that was burned-in over last weekend.
  Alex found mine emitting a click, and so it didn't ship.
   
  I was having mine overnighted, but seeing as this weekend I won't have any free-time, I opted for 2-day shipping.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


wkhanna said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote:


m2man said:


> Mine Shipped, woot!


 
   
  This is who I was referring to.


----------



## wkhanna

Hey paradoxper!
  No sooner had I hit the 'submit' button on my 'Belly-Ache' post than got an email.
  My Schitt hit the road today.
  I did not bother anyone there with emails.
  I figured it would ship when it shipped.
  Looks as though I may have it before next weekend after all, if all goes well.
   
  Sorry you don't have time to come out and play this weekend.
  I may be in same fix next weekend myself.
   
  Bill


----------



## Maxvla

Got my shipping notice today as well.


----------



## wkhanna

Looks as though we will be neck deep in it shortly.
   
  Sorry, I could not resist. ; )


----------



## m2man

Mine made it. Listening as I type...


----------



## hmouse

Quote: 





m2man said:


> Mine made it. Listening as I type...


 
  Congratulations! Waiting for you first impressions.


----------



## Questhate

Not gonna lie, I'm totally hating on you guys right now.


----------



## SourceGuy

I'm jealous.  So M2Man, what are the initial impressions?  Or are you going to give it a thorough listen before jumping to any conclusions?


----------



## nowis

> Mine made it. Listening as I type...


 
   
  We need impressions and pictures. Stat.


----------



## jackiedh

Got mine also--Initial thoughts with the MOLJNIR & LCD 2 Rev2 WOW--more to follow...
   
  Can't figure out the #6 Light though---
   
  Jack


----------



## jackiedh

Never mind on the # 6 light--manual has #5 listed twice---
   
  Jack


----------



## m2man

sourceguy said:


> I'm jealous.  So M2Man, what are the initial impressions?  Or are you going to give it a thorough listen before jumping to any conclusions?



I'm not sure I have anything good/fair to compare it with. It easily beats my Fostex HP-P1. More extension and less distortion. Not as good as my Eximus, though the Gunjnir does go lower (damnit). Clearly there is a bass head over there at the factory headquarters. It doesn't seem colored in any way, though it's not as bright as the Eximus (which arguably could be too bright). Good detail but not harsh or gritty anywhere. 

Hope that gives you a taste of what to expect.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ That's helpful.
   
  Detailed comparison with the Eximus could be pretty useful and not unfair at all, given Schiit think Gungnir could be an endgame DAC for many. Await your thoughts as they develop.
   
  I see you have a good set of gear - interested in any comments you have to offer about the Gungnir/Mjolnir combination too...
   
  TIA


----------



## grokit

Yes, that's helpful. After reading the initial impressions of the Bifrost, I was worried that the Gungnir would be a bit clinical-sounding and maybe some thinness down low since it uses the same DAC chip(s). So those concerns have been somewhat alleviated. It sounds like it should be an ideal match for the Mjolnir (like Bifrost>Lyr but in the opposite fashion), can't wait to hear how it fits into my system!


----------



## m2man

argo duck said:


> Detailed comparison with the Eximus could be pretty useful and not unfair at all, given Schiit think Gungnir could be an endgame DAC for many. Await your thoughts as they develop.
> 
> I see you have a good set of gear - interested in any comments you have to offer about the Gungnir/Mjolnir combination too...




Well, the easiest difference to hear is that the Eximus is smoother. Detail-wise they are pretty close. The Eximus has more forward mids and the high treble is a hair crispier so it seems more detailed at times. Like I said before the Gungnir isn't grainy or harsh. If you picture the Eximus as having a solid smooth waveform, the Gungnir is more like a dotted smooth line. Probably too visual an analogy, but it's the best I can come up with at the moment. The Eximus is a bit more delicate perhaps.

More significantly, while the Gungnir has reasonable instrument separation, on the Eximus I can easily follow 6-8 melodies going on in a song without trying at all. Even on the muddy mixes, it's real easy to pull out what's going on. It's just super enjoyable. The Gungnir has just enough detail that you want to follow along, but my feeble brain has to work at it. I'm usually not up for work when I put my headphones on.

Pairing wise I would say that the LCD-3/Mjolnir can handle a much nicer source if you want to go that way. $800 is probably a pretty good price for the DAC. The Mjolnir is a steal though.

As always, YMMV


----------



## olor1n

Hope mine arrives early next week. When is Schiit releasing the balanced PYST cables?


----------



## rwelles

I asked Jason about balanced PYST cables the other week. He said they had been ordered, but that they didn't have a firm date when they would be in stock. Still no listing (as of this morning) for them on their web site.


----------



## grokit

Mine's finally en route!


----------



## wkhanna

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Mine's finally en route!


 
  Excellent!
  Mine is due to arrive in Pgh next Wednesday


----------



## SourceGuy

How is the AdaptiClock working?  Does it do a good job of recognizing poor quality sources and high quality sources?  It will be interesting to see which transports make the 'buy better gear' light turn on.


----------



## m2man

I updated my Eximus vs. Gungnir comments regarding detail. They are pretty damn close. The Eximus has more forward mids and crispier upper treble so on some songs they sound a little different. I will dig up some suggested songs to A/B and update some more.


----------



## m2man

Oh, and since someone asked... I would get the Mjolnir/Gungnir way way way before thinking about getting the Eximus with built-in HPA.


----------



## bensl

does anyone ordering the gungnir have a ref 5?  i would be very interested to hear how these 2 compare as i am in the market for a balanced dac.
   
  cheers


----------



## guitardave

I have a ref5se and ref150, and ordered a gungnir last week. I also was looking for a balanced dac. I am using a Metrum Octave now, which I find to be excellent. For comparison, I have had a few pricy dacs in the past, and tried a Bifrost for a bit. I did like the Bifrost for several attributes, but preferred the Octave overall for its increased resolution and lack of any signature.


----------



## earwaxxer

Does anyone know if the Gungnir is non-upsampling like the Bifrost?


----------



## SourceGuy

I don't think Gungnir upsamples.  Something about white guys not being able to dance.


----------



## paradoxper

Gungnir doesn't upsample.
   
   
  So far impressed with both Schiit stacks. It's still early on, but these are keepers.


----------



## .Sup

paradoxper said:


> Gungnir doesn't upsample.
> 
> 
> So far impressed with both Schiit stacks. It's still early on, but these are keepers.



How do you reach the volume know if you are right handed? Cable seems to be in the way


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





.sup said:


> How do you reach the volume know if you are right handed? Cable seems to be in the way


 
  Left handed here, but use my right hand for volume control. There's about a 2 finger spacing between the pot and cable.
  It has posed no issue for me, being non-fat-fingered.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Gungnir doesn't upsample.
> 
> 
> So far impressed with both Schiit stacks. It's still early on, but these are keepers.


 
   
  Stack looks good! That thing really needs a turntable on top....in silver of course.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Still has my favorite volume pot of all time...
   
  Quote: 





sourceguy said:


> I don't think Gungnir upsamples.  Something about white guys not being able to dance.


 
   
  As far as I know, upsampling causes Mike to break out in hives....


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Stack looks good! That thing really needs a turntable on top....in silver of course.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  How can one argue with that. The pot is really nice, glad Schiit stepped it up from Lyr.
   
   
   
  Here I thought it caused him to turn green. *HULK SMASH!*


----------



## Loevhagen

Looking very nice, paradoxper.  Thumbs up. And more important; hope it suits your ears as well.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Looking very nice, paradoxper.  Thumbs up. And more important; hope it suits your ears as well.


 
  Thanks Loevhagen. There's some needed smoothing out still. Other than that, I'm quite enthralled.


----------



## Questhate

Hey guys,
   
  Silly question, but which side of the back are the XLR output jacks? My XLR plugs just reach to the left side, so if they're on the right side (same side as the LED lights), then I'll need to order longer XLR cables. 
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





questhate said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Silly question, but which side of the back are the XLR output jacks? My XLR plugs just reach to the left side, so if they're on the right side (same side as the LED lights), then I'll need to order longer XLR cables.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
  They are on the right side.


----------



## grokit

I had already checked that, as I have the same issue and the right side is good for me. But now I am thinking of going out through a physical EQ so things are changing...


----------



## Kremer930

Have I just been de-sensitised to expensive headphone gear....or is that Schiit stack a bargain for what it does? 

Looks great. Now trying to visualise a higher statement stack.


----------



## Maxvla

kremer930 said:


> Have I just been de-sensitised to expensive headphone gear....or is that Schiit stack a bargain for what it does?
> Looks great. Now trying to visualise a higher statement stack.



Then start thinking bigger, much bigger. The statement stuff will be in a similar style but larger chassis for both devices. So far I think we're still on target for about $1500 each, so bigger in the pocketbook as well.


----------



## Kremer930

I hadn't heard any solid changes on price, especially for the amp. The main price variance that I had come across was for the options.


----------



## paradoxper

I had heard if you don't have speakers, then the statement gear isn't for you.


----------



## Jono338

Could someone please post a pic of the back (connections). Pretty please! 
   
  Thanks
  J


----------



## Jono338

Quote: 





guitardave said:


> I have a ref5se and ref150, and ordered a gungnir last week. I also was looking for a balanced dac. I am using a Metrum Octave now, which I find to be excellent. For comparison, I have had a few pricy dacs in the past, and tried a Bifrost for a bit. I did like the Bifrost for several attributes, but preferred the Octave overall for its increased resolution and lack of any signature.


 

 Dave, would be especially interested in comparisons between Gungnir and the Octave.
   
  J


----------



## paradoxper




----------



## Yuceka




----------



## Jono338

lol. What he said! Thanks Para.
   
  J


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I had heard if you don't have speakers, then the statement gear isn't for you.


 
   
  HE6?  Did you say HE-6?  I swear I heard someone say HE-6....


----------



## RedBull

paradoxper said:


> I had heard if you don't have speakers, then the statement gear isn't for you. h34r:




^ myth!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





redbull said:


> ^ myth!


 
  Orly. His words not mine. Seriously. I mean it.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Orly. His words not mine. Seriously. I mean it.


 
   
  HE-6! HE-6! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Now I'm excited


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> HE-6! HE-6!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm sorry, Wallet.


----------



## SourceGuy

On the back, is there a switch to toggle between SE and balanced output?
   
  Also, what is the reason for having two sets of SE outputs?


----------



## .Sup

iemcrazy said:


> HE6?  Did you say HE-6?  I swear I heard someone say HE-6.... :atsmile:



lol exactly what I was thinking


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





sourceguy said:


> On the back, is there a switch to toggle between SE and balanced output?
> 
> Also, what is the reason for having two sets of SE outputs?


 
   
  The switch is on Mjolnir.
   
  Yep, It ships in SE, so if you're running balanced make sure to toggle to BAL.
   
  Two sets of SE...maybe for looping.. I don't really know. Won't be using the SE for a while.


----------



## jackiedh

There is NO switch on the GUNGIR for SE/BALANCED-there is this switch on the MOLJNIR!!
   
  Jack


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> There is NO switch on the GUNGIR for SE/BALANCED-there is this switch on the MOLJNIR!!
> 
> Jack


 
  Hahah. That's right,  Redacted ^.


----------



## jackiedh

Don't know why there are 2 sets of Single Ended outs but in talking to Jason you can use both SE out and Balanced outputs at the same time...
   
  Jack


----------



## rawrster

A lot of balanced amps have both RCA and XLR outputs


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> A lot of balanced amps have both RCA and XLR outputs


 
  Yea, but 2 sets of RCA...


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> There is NO switch on the GUNGIR for SE/BALANCED-there is this switch on the MOLJNIR!!
> 
> Jack


 
   
  I was going to say....that sound weird and undesirable.  Makes much more sense now!
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Yea, but 2 sets of RCA...


 
   
  I like the idea.  You can split the signal to two unbalanced amps without the need for a Y cable as I've been using on my Bifrost.  It's only a -3dB loss over a y cable supposedly, and that may be an advantage if you're running a hot source.  But the fear of losing magic sounds (and the sheer unattractiveness of y cables) still makes it kind of a cool feature.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> I was going to say....that sound weird and undesirable.  Makes much more sense now!
> 
> 
> I like the idea.  You can split the signal to two unbalanced amps without the need for a Y cable as I've been using on my Bifrost.  It's only a -3dB loss over a y cable supposedly, and that may be an advantage if you're running a hot source.  But the fear of losing magic sounds (and the sheer unattractiveness of y cables) still makes it kind of a cool feature.


 
  Yea. Y cable's are nasty. I believe Justin is doing the same for the GS-X. Makes sense now.


----------



## smoothlondoner

I am haing this quandry too !
  I have a £2000 Cyrus Audio DacX+ & Offboard Cyrus power supply combo.But I'm drawn to th gungnir especially with schiits growing giant killer reputation.
  Jason Stoddard of Schiit tells me it's his Ferrari 
  But respectfully won'y comment on other makers equipment......


----------



## bensl

Quote: 





jono338 said:


> Dave, would be especially interested in comparisons between Gungnir and the Octave.
> 
> J


 

 as would i.
   
  anyone else with a gungnir have a audio-gd ref5?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Yea, but 2 sets of RCA...


 
   
  Wouldn't it be cool if one of the RCA sets were actually inputs for ADC functionality!


----------



## wkhanna

That would be a dream come true for me.
  I am ripping my vinyl collection for storage on my NAS.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Wouldn't it be cool if one of the RCA sets were actually inputs for ADC functionality!


 
  Don't go on giving anyone ideas.


----------



## SourceGuy

It arrived!!!

It's a lot bigger than I thought. Pretty incredible build quality.... It's a tank.

Listening to some 192 files through Pure Music with USB. I wont provide a review yet... It takes me forever to understand how a new piece of gear sounds before I can describe it's sonic qualities. So far it blows away my v-dac ii and modded parasound d/ac-1000 but that was expected. Much more full-bodied sound and not at all hollow.


----------



## .Sup

bensl said:


> as would i.
> 
> anyone else with a gungnir have a audio-gd ref5?



I would be interested in this as well. Can you connect a balanced and unbalanced amp to Gungnir at the same time?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





.sup said:


> I would be interested in this as well. Can you connect a balanced and unbalanced amp to Gungnir at the same time?


 
  Yep, you can use them simultaneously.


----------



## .Sup

paradoxper said:


> Yep, you can use them simultaneously.



thanks para, this is good news


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





.sup said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  One balanced and two unbalanced from the look of things.


----------



## wkhanna

[size=12pt]I am hesitant to make any comments seeing as I have only had the Gungnir  for about two hours, & I know how sometimes off-the–cuff statements get micro-analyzed & over-vetted…….but I just wanted to share a few immediate impressions:[/size]
  [size=12pt]The first thing I did was play some tracks from some albums I was listening to just last night on the Bf.[/size]
   
  [size=12pt]Blue Train - Blue note re-issue LP rip @ 96k:[/size]
  [size=12pt]Bass[/size]
  [size=12pt]More air around the sax, notably better image detail on all the instruments, more of an ‘in the studio’ feel. Sort of like being at the mixing console.[/size]
   
  [size=12pt]Ry Cooder , Election Special - Perro Verde / Nonesuch Records LP rip @ 96k:[/size]
[size=medium]Voices not clear or defined via the Bifrost are present and clear as a bell.[/size]
[size=medium]Maybe a tad bright in HF right now, not quite sure. Maybe a tad, but I bet it mellows out some with time if it is anything like the Bf.[/size]
   
[size=medium]Oh, and BASS[/size]
[size=medium]Lots of clean, balanced, musical BASS[/size]
[size=medium]Did I mention the BASS? The clean smooth natural & musical BASS?[/size]
   
[size=medium][size=small]Everything seems more immediate, too. Like noise that had been cluttering up the signal has been removed. Sort of like a bottle neck being removed allowing the music to flow at a more even & quicker pace. Maybe something to do with Janson's reference to the Gungnir being his Ferrari?[/size][/size]

   
   
[size=medium][size=11pt]For reference, I run from a custom built 8 TB RAID NAS using foobar ASIO4ALL > Siltech TosLink > Gungnir > heavily modified Carver C-19 tube hybrid pre > modified Rotel RB-1090 > DIY 65 liter ported towers w/ crossovers designed by the creator of the Avalon brand (voicing V similar to B&W 703) along with an HSU sub[/size][/size]


----------



## SourceGuy

^^^^ I agree 100%. The gungnir delivers an incredible flow. It's fast and takes you along with the music (if that makes any sense). And the bass is very very tight.

Again, I'm only comparing the gungnir to entry level dacs so .... With a grain of salt please.


----------



## grokit

Just getting my first listen in as well, it does seem to be an upgrade rather than a sidegrade which was my biggest concern. I am noticing more detail from both ends of the spectrum than with my previous DAC setup, and increased depth to the soundstage. This is with the USB input, I'm looking forward to trying the others plus I need to get my reference playlist back online. I'm using the HD800 now but when I switch to LCD-2 it will be an all-American* audio chain, rah rah!
   
  *At least when I have the EQ defeated: Gungnir > (EQ) > WA22 > DHC cable > LCD2.


----------



## rawrster

Good to hear about people liking the Gungnir dac on first listen. I'm a bit torn as to what I should be doing. I bought the Mjolnir amp kinda on impulse (actually all impulse as I had a good setup) and thinking the possibility of a balanced dac and then Gungnir is definitely on the list and would give me the combo. It probably will take some time before there's more info since these are new.
   
  Any thoughts on the adaticlock?


----------



## paradoxper

The Gungnir is neutral and transparent. Bass is very tight and very fast. Very good imaging, it's effortless.  I also concur on the Bifrost seeming veiled in comparison.
   
  Gungnir and Mjolnir is a very strong combo. Can't wait to hear how your results are Grokit. WA22 and Gungnir, very exciting!


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> The Gungnir is neutral and transparent. Bass is very tight and very fast. Very good imaging, it's effortless.  I also concur on the Bifrost seeming veiled in comparison.
> 
> Gungnir and Mjolnir is a very strong combo. Can't wait to hear how your results are Grokit. WA22 and Gungnir, very exciting!


 
  Compared to my other DACs the first thing I noticed with the Bifrost was its transparency and if you say that Gungnir is even better at that, boy do I need one ASAP. This is very very good news. 
   
  I'm looking forward to hearing more impressions on the different inputs and as well as comparisons with the DACs within the $1K-2K price range.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





yuceka said:


> Compared to my other DACs the first thing I noticed with the Bifrost was its transparency and if you say that Gungnir is even better at that, boy do I need one ASAP. This is very very good news.
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing more impressions on the different inputs and as well as comparisons with the DACs within the $1K-2K price range.


 
  These are just some initial thoughts. Have about 60 hours on both Schiit stacks, will post impressions at hour 100.


----------



## Rodzt

Quote: 





bensl said:


> ...
> anyone else with a gungnir have a audio-gd ref5?


 
   
  Quote: 





.sup said:


> I would be interested in this as well.


 
   
  Another one here.  
   
  On the market for a new DAC and considering GUNGNIR, Audio-GD Ref 5.32 and Woo Audio's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Anyone ever listened to these? Impressions will be much appreciated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Rodrigo


----------



## SourceGuy

I'm leaving mine on until it reaches at least 100 hours. I remember my buddies Bifrost smoothening out over the initial couple of weeks. There is a slight level of HF harshness right now but it's not too bad.

The Gungnir is running into my parasound p/ld (balanced). I have my eyes on the mjolnir but not until I upgrade from my q701's. i'm thinking LCD-2.

I plan on experimenting with different sources .... I want to see what turns on the "buy better gear light". So far my MacBook's USB and optical outs are locking with the vcxo's and thats with and without pure music. The sbt is also high end enough for vcxo.


----------



## hp300plus

Late 2009 iMac 27" with optical out locking on VCXO here as well -- no hiccups at all. All previous comments hold true with my experience thus far (coming from Bifrost).  Only have 20 hours on it so letting it 'bake' a little before posting additional commentary.


----------



## grokit

As I sit here evaluating the USB input of the Gungnir, I find my mind wandering to the possibility of _what to connect _to the second set of RCA outs...


----------



## grokit

Poor photo of my new monitor stand; I had to move the EQ anyways to make room for an incoming WEE so now I have much better access to it. The EQ also lets the Gungnir breath with its add-on isolation feet while actually supporting my monitor.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Poor photo of my new monitor stand; I had to move the EQ anyways to make room for an incoming WEE so now I have much better access to it. The EQ also lets the Gungnir breath with its add-on isolation feet while actually supporting my monitor.


 
  Very nice, Grokit. What is sitting under the EQ on top of the Gungnir?


----------



## Solude

Look like the manual.  More importantly... how's the MF V192 treating you?  On the Gungnir, to keep it on topic


----------



## grokit

Yep, that's the manual. I haven't tried the V192 on the Gungnir yet, looking for that RCA>BNC cable. Ordered a Belkin RCA, not sure if the USB will reach, etc. Will report back on the USB adapters (have a Bravo too) and toslink. Just slipped on the LCD2 for a bit, again later.


----------



## SourceGuy

I've tried three other sources that I thought would turn on the 'upgrade ur gear' light and none of them did.

Used a Sony Walkman d-ej855 with optical, a Sony bdp-s350 with coax and a Sony dvps-300 with coax. All of them got vcxo.


----------



## hp300plus

In that case, the "upgrade your gear" light should be re-coined to "what sort of schiit did you just plug into me?"


----------



## SourceGuy

I have a super-budge Samsung DVD player that ill have to dig up and try on gungnir. If that doesn't turn on the Lofi light then ill be surprised. I bet satellite tv receiver boxes turn it on.... At least that's what the site references.


----------



## SourceGuy

The dual RCA outputs are ideal for A/B comparing with different interconnects, preamps, amps, headphones, and speakers.


----------



## RedBull

I specifically request Audio Gd for dual RCA out to easily switch between 2 different amp when I get bored of the sound from one of my amp.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





sourceguy said:


> I have a super-budge Samsung DVD player that ill have to dig up and try on gungnir. If that doesn't turn on the Lofi light then ill be surprised. I bet satellite tv receiver boxes turn it on.... At least that's what the site references.


 
   
  We've also now found that some USB-SPDIF converters light the "Buy Better Gear" light reliably as well. Even some that are supposedly asynchronous.


----------



## fr45er

Anyone tried SPDIF directly from a PC (my laptop dock has an SPDIF out),  trying to decide whether I need the USB card or not.....


----------



## earwaxxer

Hey grokit - do you notice any difference between the USB and SPDIF inputs? I know its early, but we are all kind of anxious to pull the trigger and buy one!


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





earwaxxer said:


> Hey grokit - do you notice any difference between the USB and SPDIF inputs? I know its early, but we are all kind of anxious to pull the trigger and buy one!


 

 +1


----------



## Ric Schultz

Would love to see the inerds.......Someone please take off the cover and give us some closeups.


----------



## livewire

Innards!


----------



## Solude

Also love to see some high res inside love from Schiit.  Both the Mjolnir and Gungnir.  Statement information would be great too now that the mid tier is out the door.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





yuceka said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Yes it's early, and most of us are aware that there are limitations to these kind of comparisons; I am not employing DBT techniques, yadda yadda. But I will say that I am firmly on the side of the USB input being less appealing than the Gungnir's other inputs, and accordingly less capable than the USB to Spdif converters that I am auditioning with it.
   
  I will also say that the difference isn't as great as it was with my Mini-i, but when I put the converters in the loop a slight veil was definitely lifted. I am still glad I have the USB input on the Gungnir, it offers USB compatibility at 24/192 and give the unit a fourth input for flexibility. Plus who wants a dead input to skip by with their selector button.
   
  From my Mac Mini, using the same Furutech USB cable, I tried a Firestone Bravo with their optional Supplier PSU, along with my MF Vlink 192. I first listened to the V192, and then the Bravo, using a low-end GE RCA digital coax cable. They sound very similar to each other, as I have noticed previously using my Mini-i. Then I tried the optical input using a high-quality glass toslink cable, again very similar. All three flavors sounded noticeably better than the USB input of the Gungnir.
   
  I am still getting used to the Gungnir's sound signature, but if any of you are concerned (as I was) that the Gungnir is clinical, or thin sounding, allow me to put those concerns to rest. I am coming from what is by consensus an extremely smooth-sounding DAC, and the Gungnir seems even less fatiguing overall. It offers better detail at the extreme ends of the frequency spectrum, excellent musicality, and very good transparency overall when using the Spdif inputs.
   
  As far as USB to Spdif converters go, I will say that while the V192 and the Bravo both sound excellent with the Gungnir, there are probably better matches out there for this DAC. The Gungnir can't take advantage of one of the the V192's best features, which is its "balanced digital" AES/EBU output. Also the V192 doesn't offer optical/toslink. The Bravo is an excellent unit with more Spdif flexibility, but it only goes up to 24/96.


----------



## grokit

That's right, there's more detail in the extended treble while being overall less fatiguing. Quite a feat.
   
  Also, the Gungnir seems to minimize many of the vast differences between the HD800 and the LCD2. The HD800 sounds fuller, the LCD2 r.1 more even in its FR. Another admirable accomplishment.


----------



## Solude

That description makes the Gung, Mjol combo a natural match since I felt the Mjol could use more help in the bottom end.  If the tonal balance can be restored for a measly $750, win.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Mjolnir and Gungnir are out for photos (including boards) right now, so all will be revealed soon.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





solude said:


> That description makes the Gung, Mjol combo a natural match since I felt the Mjol could use more help in the bottom end.  If the tonal balance can be restored for a measly $750, win.


 
   
   
  Yes that's pretty much what I was thinking from the Mjolnir impressions.


----------



## earwaxxer

Thanks grokit for taking the time to update with comments. I tend to think I will go SPDIF out from my Transporter. Much appreciated!


----------



## Roscoeiii

Yes, thanks all for the comments. If anyone with a Mac has a Gungnir, I would love to hear a comparison on the Mac's optical output vs. USB (vs. external USB-SPDIF converter).
   
  Great to hear all of these super impressions of this DAC. Very, very tempting...
   
  This and the Musical Fidelity M1 are the big contenders for becoming my next DAC.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





roscoeiii said:


> Yes, thanks all for the comments. If anyone with a Mac has a Gungnir, I would love to hear a comparison on the Mac's optical output vs. USB (vs. external USB-SPDIF converter).


 
   
  That's what I did, I'm using a 2011 Mac Mini and compared the USB to two different spdif converters, one with optical and both with coax.


----------



## hp300plus

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That's right, there's more detail in the extended treble while being overall less fatiguing. Quite a feat.


 
   
   
  Same experience here. Using JH16s which can easily get harsh around 8-10khz; the Gungnir has smoothed that out by about 50% and added extended detail further up in the frequency band as well as greater instrument separation across the spectrum. It's all very pleasing to the ear and non-fatiguing.


----------



## SourceGuy

At about 85 hours right now. The optical out on my new MacBook is sounding better than the USB out. I've been switching back and forth with pure music set to upsample only to 96 w/ USB so it's an even comparison. Maybe it's my setup but the USB is too edgy.... I keep wanting to turn the volume down. The optical on the other hand is much more involving. It's pretty incredible.

Would a USB to spdif converter out-do the optical out on the MacBook when using pure music with the Gungnir?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sourceguy said:


> Would a USB to spdif converter out-do the optical out on the MacBook when using pure music with the Gungnir?


 
   
  It really depends on the converter. And Spdif is optical (toslink) _or_ coaxial (RCA/BNC). So your MacBook has an Spdif optical out. Some think that coaxial is better, and sometimes it is.


----------



## Loevhagen

Maybe a slim chance, but if anyone has heard the NAD M51 and the Gungnir - a brief comparison would be nice in terms of 3D and balance between bass, mids and treble. 
   
Edit: Overriding spelling sugestions in OSX.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Maybe a slim chance, but if anyone have heard the NAD M51 and the Gungnir - a brief comparison would be nice in terms of 3D and balance between bass, miss and treble.


 
  ^ But doubtful.


----------



## SourceGuy

I should rephrase my question. I'm just curious to find out if a standalone USB to spdif converter (like audiophilleo 2) would be superior to the MacBook's spdif out. Or would gungnir not warrant that?


----------



## Loevhagen

Hi, paradoxper. Still enthralled? 
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Thanks Loevhagen. There's some needed smoothing out still. Other than that, I'm quite enthralled.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Hi, paradoxper. Still enthralled?


 
  Hey Loevhagen. Indeed, I am. The harshness has smoothened out quite nicely.
   
  I'm still quite surprised by how transparent and detailed the Gungnir is.
   
  For as much early on talks were going on about the Mjolnir being very good,
  I think Gungnir is going to garner just the same attention.


----------



## Loevhagen

Sounds good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  If you should pick one headphone in your portfolio for a marathon music session (4-6 hours straight); which one of the one you own would you choose for the Gungnir/Mjolnir combo? Not taking comfort issues into account.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Sounds good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Haha. I took my LCD-3's for a ride that lasted over 20 hours, comfort is not an issue. So it would be the LCD-3. The HE-6 can fatigue me.
   
  Before the sound smoothed out it would have been the Mad Dog or LCD-2 for their darker tone. The sound was pretty aggressive and fast to fatigue.


----------



## Loevhagen

What you just said resonated with me, so that adds value to me when reading your impressions (past, present and future).


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Maybe a slim chance, but if anyone has heard the NAD M51 and the Gungnir - a brief comparison would be nice in terms of 3D and balance between bass, mids and treble.


 
   
  Perhaps *purrin* or *anaxilus* has heard both?
   
  These two units use very different approaches in regards to how they convert, so a comparison would not be apples to apples but should be interesting.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> What you just said resonated with me, so that adds value to me when reading your impressions (past, present and future).


 
  Very gracious, sir.


----------



## Stekos

Hopefully not a dumb question:
   
  Would the Gungnir make a good match to the Woo Audio WA2 pre-amp/headphone amp?  I was previously considering the Bifrost, but since the Gungnir seems like such a huge upgrade in hardware, I thought it might be a better option, even if it was used only with the single ended outputs?
   
  For inputs, I would be using a laptop for the USB jack, and an Oppo player for CD/SACD connected to the COAX jack.
   
  Thx.


----------



## SHYood

I have been intending to add my two cents or so, but the sound of the my Gungnir has continued to evolve till yesterday, so I held off a bit.  It's been crunching numbers for a good 120 hours at this point, and I've had it in several situations, so I think I have a fair measure of it by now.  First, I'll preface with some listening biases and a dirty confession.  I listen mostly to Classical music and am one of those Luddites who believes that the measure of a system is its ability to recreate the illusion of live, unamplified  music.  I do listen to a wide range of pop, rock and progressive fare.  Hip Hop, Rap and Electronica are not my things.  My dirty secret is that I listen mostly in pen air with speakers.  I haunt Head fi for the quality of the commentary on digital sources and portable music.
  I fed the Gungnir via a Macbook Pro Retina using Pure Music.  The computer refused to recognize the Gungnir connected directly to its USB 3.0 ports, but saw it when I connected it via a USB 2.0 hub.  I got very prompt replies to my concerns from Schiit.  They had not tried Macs with native USB 3.0 ports, yet, but were mystified that there seemed to be a compatibility issue since USB 3.0 should be totally backward compatible.  It may be a hardware issue to take into account.  However, I cannot discount the possibility that the fault may lie with Mountain Lion which is the buggiest Apple OSX that I have ever seen, thus far.  Playback has been through a variety of preamps and transducers, but, mainly Symphonies Magnums, VXT 8's for near field listening and Wilson Sophias for the main system.  
  On first inspection, the Gungnir does nothing but impress.  The fit and finish is superb, and it is solid and heavy as a billet of solid aluminum.  On first listen, however ... As Doug Adams said so well, "Don't panic".  It does sound harsh and strident and, well, a bit raspy out of the box.  There was detail, aplenty, but at the expense of a very fatiguing high end.  I turned the output off and went away for 24 hours.  When I returned to listening, the top end has smoothed out a good bit and the jaggedness that a prior poster had referred to was fading nicely.  It was another 48 hours till I really had time to listen, and, then, the Gungnir was a revelation.  More on comparatives later. but I'll get the obvious one out of the way now.  It is a CLEAR upgrade over the Bitfrost that I had borrowed.  The later was nice, but the Gungnir improves on it in clarity, upper and lower end extension, and, especially in imaging abilities.  Gungnir gives a very solid, but not overblown bass foundation with pipe organ pedals very firmly and cleanly enunciated.  The highs are very nice and airy without the annoying harshness that I came to associate with digital in its early days.  So, tonal balance seemed nailed for me, but this isn't what sets Gungnir appart from the rest, IMO.  Gungnir portrays a sense of space and dimensionality of the instruments better than ANY digital source that I have heard to date.  (Sadly, I haven't heard the M51, yet.)  Gone is the spectacle of paper instruments on a cardboard stage.  The orchestra has deapth as well as width.  Instruments occupy a three dimensional space.  Janos Starker's cello blooms with a body that rivals my analog setup.  Concert halls reverberate and one hears the walls reflect the voices of massed choirs.  Well done, indeed.  What really delayed my comments is that Gungnir has another remarkable trick up its sleeve.  To an astounding degree, it makes mediocre recordings sound very nice indeed.  Sadly, not every great performance got a good recording, but Gungnir somehow helped me forget that and I ended up whiling away the weekend seeing what old warhorses sounded like.  I've been at the audiophool business for a good quarter of a century, and this hasn't happened to me in a long time.  If this is the midrange unit, I can't stand the anticipation for the reference.
  On a few ballpark comparisons... Well, it was sort of sad.  The Bitfrost wasn't bad, but couldn't begin to do the spatial magic that the Gungnir could.  Dacmagic Plus need not apply.  My venerable, and much loved CAL Tempest can't compare on the frequency extremes.  My prior champ, the frightfully inexpensive Ross Martin Dual Bare Beast was also bettered, mostly in the realm of imaging and body.  I am sort of looking forward to borrowing some 1k plus DACs to see how they do in my system versus the Gungnir, but I doubt I'll feel any regret returning them.
  The final test, for me was to compare a 24/192 download of Janos Starker's Bach cello sonatas with the vinyl version from my collection with a table, arm, cartridge combo costing a good 10 times the cost of the Gungnir.  It was disturbingly close, and the Gungnir/Macbook Pro is sure a lot less fiddly.
  A couple of final notes.  I did compare USB to Audiophileo 2 provided SPDIF.  The later was marginally smoother, I think, but I really cannot convince myself for sure.  I did not use an optical input.  Cables do matter, but I'm still sorting that out.  Finally, Gungnir did benefit from good isolation feet.  My current fav for bang for the buck are the Tenderfeet from Herbie's Audio Lab.  Good stuff.
  This has been an embarrassing gush.  I consider myself a pretty harsh critic of digital music reproduction, but I am rethinking that.  Higher sampling rates and gear like this make the expense and trouble of maintaing turntables increasingly tough to justify.  Many congrats to the fellows at Schiit.  Consider me a fan boy.


----------



## mikek200

Can anyone give me alink to getting some close up pictures of the Gungnir...front-,rear.,top,,side
  Especially the rear panel..
   
  There is nothing on the Schiit website.
   
  Thanks
  Mike


----------



## Maxvla

There are pictures of the rear.. here or in the Mjolnir thread, I forget which, posted in the last week. Schiit's site should be updated with all of those viewpoints soon. They have units out at professional photographers right now.


----------



## mikek200

For those needing the pics,
   
  Alex from Schiit ,says pictures will be available ..next week ,or so???


----------



## paradoxper

Spoiler: %3A%20Spoiler



 


> shyood said:
> 
> 
> > I have been intending to add my two cents or so, but the sound of the my Gungnir has continued to evolve till yesterday, so I held off a bit.  It's been crunching numbers for a good 120 hours at this point, and I've had it in several situations, so I think I have a fair measure of it by now.  First, I'll preface with some listening biases and a dirty confession.  I listen mostly to Classical music and am one of those Luddites who believes that the measure of a system is its ability to recreate the illusion of live, unamplified  music.  I do listen to a wide range of pop, rock and progressive fare.  Hip Hop, Rap and Electronica are not my things.  My dirty secret is that I listen mostly in pen air with speakers.  I haunt Head fi for the quality of the commentary on digital sources and portable music.
> ...


   


 

  Very good impressions


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> For those needing the pics,
> 
> Alex from Schiit ,says pictures will be available ..next week ,or so???


 
  Mike, if you go back a few pages, I posted pics of the backside of Gungnir.


----------



## livewire

But no gutz? *Need 2-C them gutz!*


----------



## earwaxxer

Thanks! SHYood - very comprehensive opinions and comparisons. I will pull the trigger now!


----------



## rated1975

Thanks for the impressions SHYood


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





livewire said:


> But no gutz? *Need 2-C them gutz!*


 
  I'm not going to lie. I'd post some internals, if I could force myself to shut the damn thing down....


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





shyood said:


> I have been intending to add my two cents or so, but the sound of the my Gungnir has continued to evolve till yesterday, so I held off a bit.  It's been crunching numbers for a good 120 hours at this point, and I've had it in several situations, so I think I have a fair measure of it by now.  First, I'll preface with some listening biases and a dirty confession.  I listen mostly to Classical music and am one of those Luddites who believes that the measure of a system is its ability to recreate the illusion of live, unamplified  music.  I do listen to a wide range of pop, rock and progressive fare.  Hip Hop, Rap and Electronica are not my things.  My dirty secret is that I listen mostly in pen air with speakers.  I haunt Head fi for the quality of the commentary on digital sources and portable music.
> 
> I fed the Gungnir via a Macbook Pro Retina using Pure Music.  The computer refused to recognize the Gungnir connected directly to its USB 3.0 ports, but saw it when I connected it via a USB 2.0 hub.  I got very prompt replies to my concerns from Schiit.  They had not tried Macs with native USB 3.0 ports, yet, but were mystified that there seemed to be a compatibility issue since USB 3.0 should be totally backward compatible.  It may be a hardware issue to take into account.  However, I cannot discount the possibility that the fault may lie with Mountain Lion which is the buggiest Apple OSX that I have ever seen, thus far.  Playback has been through a variety of preamps and transducers, but, mainly Symphonies Magnums, VXT 8's for near field listening and Wilson Sophias for the main system.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  What an excellent first post, very useful impressions! I have a hard time reading walls of text though, so I "fixed" it for you. This is much easier...
  Also I agree, that the Gungnir really benefits from burn-in


----------



## Argo Duck

^ They are indeed. And yes, easier to read now too.
   
  Gungnir looks like a serious improvement over Bifrost. The latter was great value for money, with detail and clarity but a 'lightness' or bass-shy character Gungnir seems to have amply fixed.
   
  In a comparison with the Eastern Electric Dac (original version), I found the EE erred the other way - large quantities of bass and lower mids tended to wash out harmonic detail higher up, and (comparatively) injure textural detail important to naturally rendering some instruments., e.g. piano, cello.
   
  If Gungir produces bass _and_ texture, together with extended highs and a natural midrange, then in my book it sounds like a winner...
   
  Except, well - there's the statement to come!


----------



## grokit

The Gungnir continues to improve. I'm falling in love with my HD800 all over again!


----------



## tokendog

Looks like I know what I'll be adding to my chain next...
   
  I'm currently caressing my brand new Mjolnir and I'm not sure if that's a healthy thing to be doing....


----------



## grokit

Listening to My Little Basquiat by the Cowboy Junkies, which combines really distorted electric guitar with piano. I don't think I've ever heard distortion this clearly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The piano sounds are crystal clear and separated into their own space even though they are about the same Hz as the guitar. The drums sound almost binaural from gentle panning.  The bass guitar is distinct and is laying a solid foundation.
   
  And Margo's voice sounds so distinct, it's like she's singing directly into my ears from heaven. Life is good...


----------



## tokendog

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Listening to My Little Basquiat by the Cowboy Junkies, which combines really distorted electric guitar with piano. I don't think I've ever heard distortion this clearly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You stop that!  My poor wallet... it's so afraid of Head-fi!  Just kidding.  Happy to hear it's a good experience for you.  I shall be joining the Gungnir club soon enough.  I've held off because all reports state that the Titanium HD is good enough as a DAC.  If the Gungnir is superior enough to upgrade, it'll be next on my list.


----------



## grokit




----------



## wkhanna

[size=medium][size=medium]I’m listening to an LP ripped @ 94k [/size][/size]
  [size=medium][size=medium]Vattensaga by Tingvall Trio[/size][/size]
  [size=medium][size=medium]Piano, bass and standard drum kit[/size][/size]
  [size=medium] [/size]
  [size=medium][size=medium]I have heard this a few times both on my system & my friend’s who has B&W 802di’s.[/size][/size]
  [size=medium] [/size]
  [size=medium][size=medium]The imaging, detail, micro-dynamics & range I hear now are V similar to what I heard on my friend’s $14k speakers.[/size][/size]
  [size=medium][size=medium]My system has never sounded this good.[/size][/size]
   
   
  [size=medium][size=medium]edit: I would never have believed my system _could_ sound this good.[/size][/size]


----------



## PewterTA

Bill... Do you want to just bring the Gungnir over.... we can test it out on the 802D2s!!!
   
  I can't wait to put it through the paces against the CA 840c.


----------



## wkhanna

Ha!
  Dan, I do not think the 840 will hold a candle next to this schiit.
  Once we try it through your system, I do not think you will be be able to hold off for the Statemant!


----------



## PewterTA

No, that'll give me more reason to wait for the statement... remember, I was thinking NAD M51.... as the final point for my DAC... So the Statement will be the way to go.

 If the Gungnir is heads above the 804c, then maybe I will think about it and sell it as soon as the Statement is available.  
   
  I still think the 840c will be pretty darn close... all the reviews on the differences of the Gungnir over the BiFrost is basically what I noticed with the 840c over the Bifrost... so I'm thinking these will be pretty similar with hopefully the better going towards the Gungnir.  Which it should since the 840c is already 3 years old.  
   
  Can't wait for tomorrow to hear it!!!


----------



## wkhanna

Ha! (again)
  Then just get the Nad & let us have an old fashion shoot out!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Because that is the referance point now that many of us want the answer to.
  Gungnir vs M51.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





wkhanna said:


> Ha! (again)
> Then just get the Nad & let us have an old fashion shoot out!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Someone answer the challenge!!!!


----------



## earwaxxer

Pulled the trigger on the Gungnir today. I feel good about it. I dont buy kit very often. I have had my Maggie MMG's, Squeezebox Transporter, Bottlehead Preamp for years. I even have an old MSB Link DAC lll in service, running optical off the Transporter. I'm also really happy to be buying great American audio kit. ****, we do it right when it comes to audio! (pun intended).


----------



## Questhate

Just popping in to say that I've had my Gungnir since last Thursday and have NOT been able to pull myself away from my system. I've been neglecting all my daily chores -- my house is a mess, dishes piling up in the sink, trash can is overflowing, my plants are all withering, and I forgot to eat dinner on Sunday night. True story. 
   
  The bass does jump out on first impression. It's big, bad and feels almost deviant. Not sure I'd describe the low-frequencies as boosted, though. It's just very clean, defined and dynamic. It's a lack of congestion in the way the Gungnir renders music that lets bass lines stand out without being buried by the rest of the spectrum. It conveys a great sense of PRaT and musicality, so it's almost no wonder that the bass is what leaps out at me as I groove along. This helps lend a great sense of body and weight to the music as well.
   
  Another quality I love is the way it renders detail without that digital hardness (Bifrost did this well too, from what I remember). There is nothing clinical about the way the Gungnir sounds. It passes my "does a muted trumpet with the HD800 induce pain" test. Cymbals decay naturally without overstaying their welcome. Everything seems natural and effortless. 
   
  And lastly, spatiality is great. It feels open and uncluttered -- each element in the music is well-defined and has space to breathe. I have yet to get the feeling that an instrument is stacked on top of another (even on my Grados). 
   
  So far so good. I'll reserve any criticisms for when I get more accustomed to its qualities. I wish I had more experience with high-end DACs to compare to for you all, but not sure if that'll help anyway because so far this DAC has not been conducive to critical listening (and that's a _good_ thing). I haven't gushed on about a new purchase of mine in a while, but feel compelled to share how much I'm enjoying my Gungnir.
   
  TLR, in conclusion, _Jason killed my plants. _


----------



## olor1n

Thanks for the impressions QH. The comparison to the Bifrost is very encouraging. Your setup is enviable and looks complete. If the Gungnir lives up to these accolades I may very well be done myself as well.
   
  edit: just got notification my Gungnir has shipped. Should be here tomorrow. Finally!


----------



## Jono338

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> edit: just got notification my Gungnir has shipped. Should be here tomorrow. Finally!


 
   
  It's happening all over ... mine just shipped too. Might even have it tomorrow!!


----------



## PewterTA

That'd be an awesome to do a shoot out like that!!!!
   
  Unfortunately, I don't want to get the M51 if the Statement is going to be the same or better...  
   
  So I don't know if that'll happen...but if I come into some more money (still paying off the 802D2s)... then you know I'll be willing to do the shoot out of any and the M51!


----------



## wkhanna

[size=medium]I am not well informed with regards to the M51, but I really do not think using it as a bench mark is unfair.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Consider that it is packed with a bunch of features like volume control, a slew of extra channels & did not they have to absorb some licensing costs, too? What I am getting at is, if you subtract the cost of all the other fluff from the NAD & simply compare the 2ch DAC performance, it may not be that big of stretch. [/size]
   
  [size=medium]I would not expect the Gungnir to dominate the M51, but I do hope it has nothing to be ashamed of in a fair head-to-head comparison. [/size]


----------



## BournePerfect

Are there any indications that the Statement dac will have HDMI inputs? That's one reason I've lusted for the Nad for a while as I can pretty much hook all of my components into it simultaneously.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## wkhanna

Just guessing........
  But I do not think you will see HDMI inputs on any Schiit anytime soon......
  Like the next century or so.......


----------



## earwaxxer

Questhate - thanks for the mini review!


----------



## Questhate

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Thanks for the impressions QH. The comparison to the Bifrost is very encouraging. Your setup is enviable and looks complete. If the Gungnir lives up to these accolades I may very well be done myself as well.
> 
> edit: just got notification my Gungnir has shipped. Should be here tomorrow. Finally!


 
  No prob. I know impressions are fairly limited without comparisons to other references/bechmarks because of the subjectivity of this hobby -- but I've been so smitten with what the Gungnir has brought to my setup that I had to sing its praises. I can't definitively say right now that it has more resolution than DAC X or throws a wider soundstage than DAC Y or has better spatial cues than DAC Z. But after days of intense listening, nothing seemed odd, weird, out-of-place, or jars me back to reality. It hasn't committed any major flaws. Quite the opposite actually, as I'm finding it very involving and musical.
   
  I'd like to compare it to DACs that local Head-Fi'ers here have in the near future though, just to get more comparative impressions out there. Don't think anyone I know here has the M51 though. 
   
  And I listened to your exact setup at the Schiit table at the meet a month ago. I'd have no problem riding off into the sunset with that.


----------



## dermott

Any thoughts on how the Yulong D18 would compare?


----------



## olor1n

Gungnir came in today. Initial impressions straight out of the box confirms what others have stated. The Gungnir is on a whole other level from the Bifrost. I only have it connected to the Mjolnir single ended via rca at the moment (waiting for balanced PYST cables), but the improvement over the Bifrost is evident. It seems to have the same signature, though the frequency extremes extend further. There's more air from the smooth top end, and better separation and placement of elements as a result. It makes the Bifrost seem flat and "veiled" in comparison. The most apparent improvement though is in the bass. The HD800 at the end of this chain is glorious.


----------



## Loevhagen

Based on feedback in this thread and the Mjolnir thread; would it be fair to say that a Gungnir + Mjolnir will give _too much_ bass to e.g. a pair of LCD-2 / LCD-3? I know this is a subjective matter, but i find the question prudent to ask.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Based on feedback in this thread and the Mjolnir thread; would it be fair to say that a Gungnir + Mjolnir will give _too much_ bass to e.g. a pair of LCD-2 / LCD-3? I know this is a subjective matter, but i find the question prudent to ask.


 
   
  From everything I've heard it sounds like it just gives more bass _control_, not necessarily quantity.
   
  Of course I haven't heard them yet; really want to though.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Based on feedback in this thread and the Mjolnir thread; would it be fair to say that a Gungnir + Mjolnir will give _too much_ bass to e.g. a pair of LCD-2 / LCD-3? I know this is a subjective matter, but i find the question prudent to ask.


 
  No, it gives plenty of bass, but it's not overdone. There's great control. Bass is full, deep, extended all while
  remaining balanced. Meaning, it doesn't overtake the rest of the spectrum.


----------



## Solude

If anything I thought the Mjolnir could use more bass weight and presence so it would have to be overcooked to fall into bass head mud territory.


----------



## SourceGuy

I wouldn't say it's bass-heavy at all.  It has a very clean and tight low-end.  I think everyone keeps commenting on the bass because of the tightened-up, fast, and punchy sound the Gungnir is delivering.


----------



## paradoxper

I've reached just over 200 hours on the Gungnir and feel I've given enough time
  for everything to smooth out and settle down. While I've listened to a ton of DACs
  both over and under $!k, I thought it best to keep my comparisons to the Bifrost,
  which was my most recently owned DAC.
   
  The Mjolnir bests the Bifrost across the entire spectrum in every way.
  Bass, instrument separation, clarity and details. Most noticeably, I found the
  Bifrost veiled details more often and had a more bloated low end.
  In certain passages the Bifrost revealed a harshness that wasn't apparent in the 
  Gungnir, completely smooth and clear. This is something I've not noticed until now.
   
  Bass is one of the biggest additions needed,
  Plenty of weight and extension with good control. Nothing muddy or 
  unnatural about it, just plentiful, musical and clean.
  There's an overall fast pace to things, less congestion or clutter.
   
  In the Beginning the top end was detailed, but retained some harshness.
  This has completely smoothened out. Very musical, non-metallic or 
  clinical sound to it. Instruments sound natural without over emphasis.
   
  There's more air to instruments, great sense of space, very easy to follow
  a single instrument along. Clutter is non existent.
   
   
   
  I tend to dislike full blown reviews as they don't feel like real world experiences.
  (With all their audiophile jargon nonsense.)
  So the biggest quality I've come to enjoy about Gungnir is its ability
  to make bad recordings very enjoyable. While retaining an overall 
  transparent tonality, everything is rendered as musical. The last time
  I enjoyed a DAC this much was my time with the PW DAC.


----------



## Yuceka

Any comparisons with the Audio-GD DACs like their similarly priced models or NFB 11.32 ?


----------



## mikek200

Excellent mini review Para.
  Which headphones did you use???
   
  Any impressions ,with the He-6's??


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Excellent mini review Para.
> Which headphones did you use???
> 
> Any impressions ,with the He-6's??


 
  Thanks Mike.
   
  I've been using the LCD-3's and HE-6's mostly. But I'll save impressions for the Mjolnir thread.


----------



## Argo Duck

Great stuff Para, and thanks for your first impression olor1n. Look forward to more.
   
  On the "full blown reviews" thing, and speaking from my very limited experience, one gets into quite a weird, intense, detached space. Tiny differences become large (or disappear) - quite different from normal listening. Afterward, they become tiny again.
   
  Well, there are some very encouraging reports here from people I trust and one or two newcomers who obviously listen carefully.
   
  I look forward to more comparison with Bifrost, simply because it's a familiar reference point for many of us. In my case, comparisons with the original Eastern Electric DAC (stock; tube switched out) or Meier Corda Stagedac also welcome. I'm especially interested in what it does in terms of portraying the natural character (timbre; balance of harmonics and fundamentals) of each instrument/voice at the same time it's separating these instruments.
   
  Cheers.


----------



## wkhanna

Thanks Paradoxper (and all others who posted their observations).
   
  I like the style you used for your report.
   
  My unit is still burning in, so I will wait a while to update my findings.
  But I would like to add that the base is full, fleshed out, clean, crisp, fast, tight & V musical.
  I listen mostly to acoustic jazz & pay great attention to string bass.
  Gungnir is musical in its bass production.
  It does not over power or distract.
  It is a natural bass missing from lower performing DACs.
  Those familiar with the Bifrost will notice it right away.
  Do not misinterpret this as being overly bass-heavy.
   
  I find it interesting that in total, all the opinions so far are very constant.


----------



## PewterTA

Okay... so my friend WKHANNA (BFF LMAO) just lent me his Gungnir for the next say 5 days or so... and here's my initial impressions with about an hour or two of going back and forth with it and my Cambridge Audio 840c....
   
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  [size=medium]So far… here’s the “facts”…[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Gungnir is -3dB over the CA 840c.[/size]
  [size=medium]Gungnir has about 25 hours on it possibly (Wkhanna isn't really sure)[/size]
  [size=medium]CA840c is almost 3 years old and has been slightly modified (all wires silver soldered)[/size]
  [size=medium]Gungnir makes a clicking sound when switching different Sample Rates (small click sound, but loud enough to be heard about 9 feet away at listening position), CA840c does not make any sound.[/size]
  [size=medium]Gungnir price and specs -- you know.[/size]
  [size=medium]Cambridge Audio 840c - $[/size][size=medium]1200 or $1400 when I bought it (can't remember), Adaptive Time Filter, Asynchronous upsampling to 24-384kHz, 32-bit Analog Devices "Black Fin" DSP, Dual Differential DACs (2x Analog Devices AD1955 24-bit running at 384kHz), Fully differential output stage, Anti-Aliasing Filter based on linear phase Bessel filters for constant group delay and minimum phase shift, DC Servo with no capacitors in the signal path.  http://cambridgeaudio.com/assets/documents/840Cspecsheet.pdf[/size]
   
  [size=medium]-------------------------------------------------------------------[/size]
  [size=medium]Signal Path:[/size]
  [size=medium]Data located on a 40TB Raid 6 Win2k8r2 Server with 4GB connection (1GBx4) streamed to Win7 64bit laptop -> Foobar2000 -> ASIO4ALL -> WireWorld UltraViolet USB Cable -> Musical Fidelity V-Link (original one, 192 is on order) -> [/size]
   
  [size=medium]Path Splits here:[/size]
  [size=medium]Lifatec Glass Optical -> Cambridge Audio 840c -> [/size]
  [size=medium]Silver Cat Interconnect -> Schiit Gungnir ->[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Silver Cat Interconnects -> Rotel RSP-1098 (modified) -> Silver Cat Interconnects -> Rotel RB-1090 (modified) -> Cat Cables CatTails bi-wired (2 pair) -> Bowers & Wilkins 802D2.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I tried swaping the Optical and Digital Coax cables and honestly my opinions are completely identical... I couldn't even tell any differences that would've moved with the cable swap...so I left them as I normally have it (and it made it easier to demo both).[/size]
   
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  [size=medium]Music:[/size]
  [size=medium]Melody Gardot - My One and only Thrill (CD and 24/96K Vinyl Rip)[/size]
  [size=medium]Melody Gardot - Worrisome Heart (CD and 24/96k Vinyl Rip)[/size]
  [size=medium]Dave Brubeck - Time Out (24/96K Vinyl Rip)[/size]
  [size=medium]Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (200g 24/96K Vinyl Rip) -- is the best sounding thing I have period.[/size]
  [size=medium]Various other Genres will be played over the next few days.[/size]
   
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  [size=medium]And now... here’s the Opinions…[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Gungnir over the CA840c:[/size]
  [size=medium]-Slightly sharper, maybe clearer and/or slightly more detail.  Also seems slightly thinner sounding because of this.[/size]
  [size=medium]-Highs are slightly more detailed and crisp… almost to the point of being harsh.[/size]
  [size=medium]-Midrange and vocals seem thinner, a little more detailed (especially brush work on a snare), but thinner almost harsh at points (listening to Melody Gardot especially).  At times I noticed almost an echo to the voices that I could not hear on the 840c.  Not sure if it's detailing the actual reverb/echo used at points to help make the voice sound better or what.  It seemed like it belonged...but it also sounded odd at the same point.[/size]
  [size=medium]-Bass is more emphasized in the lower range, probably in the 20 – 40hz is more prominent.  Slight more detail.[/size]
  [size=medium]-Sound Stage is smaller and not as deep, placed slightly further back only sounding to come right at the plane of the speakers.[/size]
  [size=medium]-Instruments will jump out with a little more life to them and might have a slight bit more detail and realistic-ness to them (on a very very small scale).[/size]
   
  [size=medium]CA840c over the Gungnir:[/size]
  [size=medium]-Sound stage is bigger and instruments are in a slightly different place (perhaps more focused in a location).  Soundstage depth is deeper, still feels like my room has another 10ft beyond the wall.[/size]
  [size=medium]-Highs are almost identical, with ever so slightly softer possibly every-so-slight less detail, sustain is identical.[/size]
  [size=medium]-Midrange and vocals seem fuller and warmer (silky still) and slightly lower octive wise (could be the fuller effect though)… and maybe over all slightly ever-so-slightly “over-emphasized" and I did not notice the echoing effect that seemed to happen at points with the Gungnir.  Voices are 'forward', more pronounced, louder, or "in your face" more.[/size]
  [size=medium]-Bass is more emphasized in the upper lower range, probably in the 35 to 60Hz range.[/size]
  [size=medium]-Soundstage is wider and deeper and is placed right at the speakers and sometimes comes more forward in presentation (slightly in front of the speakers)[/size]
  [size=medium]-Instruments don’t jump out quite as much and seem to stay more in with the sound stage unless really called upon.  It almost reminds me of the statement where when an amp can’t produce a sound properly (doesn’t have the power) the sound will come out sounding over emphasized vs. being more coherent with the whole soundstage.  Not saying that’s the reason here AT ALL…just that is what it reminds me of… that type of thing.[/size]
   
  -----------------------------------------------------------------
  [size=medium]Conclusion…[/size]
   
  [size=medium]They are almost the same identical DAC.  LOL.  Each one has slightly different things it does slightly better/emphasizes more.  Of course the Gungnir is still breaking in with an estimated 25ish hours on it, so I think the midrange should come around a lot and the highs will actually smooth out, but hopefully not lose the detail.  I’m also figuring the soundstage should open up and be very similar to the 840c’s width and depth.[/size]

 [size=medium]Both have impressed me.  Gungnir for the price is AMAZING!!!!  If I didn't have anything it would definitely be my DAC of choice.  CA840c... the old dog STILL impresses!!!!  It makes me feel really good that 3 years ago I picked out such a winner and my ears haven't failed me in knowing what sounds good.  ha ha.  This also brings up two more things... what will the Statement be like... I'm guessing on par with the NAD M51.  [/size]
   
  [size=medium]I wish Cambridge Audio's DACs were exact mirrors of what they are doing with the 800 series CDp's... well except for this new one which is a pre-amp as well... not sure if I like that, and the only updated the ATF, not changing the 2 Analog Devices DACs...  So oh well, don't think that's a good purchase at the price raise of ~$400.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]The only way I could quantify things at the moment is with numbers…  lol[/size]
   
  [size=medium]Gungnir:[/size]
  [size=medium]High: 90[/size]
  [size=medium]Mid: 86[/size]
  [size=medium]Bass: 90[/size]
  [size=medium]Soundstage: 86[/size]
  [size=medium]Detail: 88[/size]
  [size=medium]Total: 88[/size]
   
  [size=medium]CA 840c:[/size]
  [size=medium]High: 88[/size]
  [size=medium]Mid: 88[/size]
  [size=medium]Bass: 90[/size]
  [size=medium]Soundstage: 90[/size]
  [size=medium]Detail: 85[/size]
  [size=medium]Total: 88.2[/size]
   
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
  [size=medium]Pictures:[/size]
  [size=medium][/size]
  [size=medium][/size]
  [size=medium][/size]


----------



## Questhate

I feel like part of it is that it's a very un-congested presentation, so bass seems to slam harder as it jumps out of a blacker background and from a clearly defined area in space. I've heard other setups where you need to focus to hear the bass lines, as it runs up against other elements in the music. 
   
  The first time I really heard the HD800's with great bass slam was on Purrin's PS Audio PWD --> Balancing Act setup at the last Bay Area meet. I don't think anyone could walk away from that set up and think the HD800 was bass-light, or thin, or clinical. I use James Blake's "There's a Limit to Your Love" as one of my bass test tracks, and that song _really hits _on that system. It's not like the bass was overwhelming or boosted either, it was still supremely balanced and natural. It's just that the bass was so dynamic, and could seemingly jump from one to ten instantly from out of nowhere if the music called for it. 
   
  I don't have $8K to drop on DAC+amp (from what I understand, he's using $1K+ in tubes), but that has been my unicorn dynamics system since. Sort of an "endpoint" in mind. 
   
  It's been one week since I got the Gungnir, but I feel like my system now shares a lot of the same qualities as that reference (from memory). Sure, it may not match the resolution, or micro-detail, or dynamic shifts of the PWD-->BA  -- but it ticks a lot of the same boxes. Musical, involving, analog and natural, very smooth treble, lots of warmth and atmosphere.
   
  One thing it does match the PWD --> BA system in is its ability to make me NOT want to listen critically. It has a way of just sucking you into the music. Seriously, the other night I just got my Magnums back from a long term loan from another member. I plugged them in just to check if they were still in working order, and ended up sucked into a 4-hour session with them.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Gungnir doesn't upsample.
> 
> 
> So far impressed with both Schiit stacks. It's still early on, but these are keepers.


 
   
  The LEDs on my Gungnir are brighter/whiter than the one on my Mjolnir. The one on the amp is more opaque. Yours seem to be like mine. Is this the same for everyone else?


----------



## Maxvla

Yes


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> The LEDs on my Gungnir are brighter/whiter than the one on my Mjolnir. The one on the amp is more opaque. Yours seem to be like mine. Is this the same for everyone else?


 
  Same was for my Lyr and Bifrost. I didn't notice on the mid-tier stack, until you brought it up. Interesting.


----------



## olor1n

I still have my Bifrost and the LEDs are just like they are on the Gungnir. My Lyr is long gone but I recall it being the same opaque white as on the Mjolnir.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I still have my Bifrost and the LEDs are just like they are on the Gungnir. My Lyr is long gone but I recall it being the same opaque white as on the Mjolnir.


 
  Yep, it has always been on the amp side. Very funny. But it doesn't bother me.


----------



## ceausuc

Quote: 





pewterta said:


> Okay... so my friend WKHANNA (BFF LMAO) just lent me his Gungnir for the next say 5 days or so... and here's my initial impressions with about an hour or two of going back and forth with it and my Cambridge Audio 840c....


 
   
  Does the Gungnir have an usb input? It would be interesting to test against the Vlink.


----------



## wkhanna

No, I ordered my unit without the USB module.
  That is why Dan is using the V-Link in his system.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Yep, it has always been on the amp side. Very funny. But it doesn't bother me.


 
  It's either a voltage thing, or intentional subliminal design....the DAC is clear and crisp, the amp is warm and smooth


----------



## PewterTA

From everything I've read the USB input doesn't sound as good as the SPDIF... so I'm guessing the USB isn't worth getting unless one needs it.  I think the MF V-Link 192 will be a nice upgrade once it arrives (in the mail now).  Can't wait for that to get here and try it out... though I'm guessing the Gungnir will have to go back to it's owner by that point.


----------



## wkhanna

I am sure we can arrange to have time for you to make the comparison.


----------



## Currawong

How many hours did the Gungnir have on it? I tend to find that transistors and capacitors need 350 hours or so of use before they settle down.
   
  I have owned the 840c and, like you, I found it made zero difference how it was fed a digital signal. Nowadays, I'd say its second-hand value of $800 or so is about right considering the stiff competition.


----------



## earwaxxer

Yep - thats why I HATE haveing to sell anything that I found was a 'mistake'. Some items are 'hot' and sell well. I have had a couple of those. Most of the time I settle for half of what i paid for it. I cant afford that any more. I bought the Gungnir and I am looking forward to its arrival. I feel good about this one. I am quite confident it will be a keeper no matter what. Just like I kept my MSB LInk DAC lll. I'm glad I did. It was, and still is, a great DAC. I believe the Gungnir will be one of those.


----------



## grokit

I can vouch for the V192 with the Gungnir, it works nicely and sounds better than the USB input (to me with my system), but it makes me wish the Gungnir had an AES/EBU input to work with the V192's "Balanced Digital" output.


----------



## PewterTA

The Gungnir now has a good 50 hours on it, I'm leaving it run basically 24/7 these next couple days feeding it with every type of music one can find (I have over 155K songs to choose from) so I'm all over the place with Bill's Gungnir.
   
  My favorite so far has been Nitin Sawhney, I have all his albums and they are some of the best produced albums out there in my opinion.
   
  Now that I'm over the 50hr mark, I have to say some of the midrange is coming in now sounding fuller.  Some of the simbilance I was hearing in voices has basically gone away now.  It's definitely a great DAC that's all there is too it.
   
  I will say that it's almost 95% identical to the CA840c now. Only thing the CA840c does better is it has a bigger overall soundstage still.  As an example there's the one Nitin Sawhney song, Anthem without Nation off the Beyond Skin album where there's these brush/bucket beats that are really pushed out of phase and sound like they are coming from behind you.  The Gungnir produces them and they are about at your sitting plane.  With the 840c, those same things sound like they are litterally behind you and at points almost like someone comes up from behind and flicks your right ear.  It'll get you at times.
   
  The Gungnir is a little bit narrower and definitely not as deep (behind the speakers).  All instruments seem to be, more or less, on about 1 or 2 planes.... where the CA840c has about 4 or 5 planes going back beyond the speakers.  I'm still thinking with more time, the Gungnir is going to get there.  At least that's been my experience with new equipment is the soundstage takes time to really come together.
   
  Definitely having a blast with the songs on random which I don't do too often as it's pulling some things I've not heard in forever and some I've never heard before.  ha ha!
   
  If only I had a good way to hook up my B&W C5s to it, but alas I don't have any good headphone amp for them to test out the Gungnir with.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





pewterta said:


> If only I had a good way to hook up my B&W C5s to it, but alas I don't have any good headphone amp for them to test out the Gungnir with.


 
   
  Thanks for the impressions, but to help us gauge them please share what headphone and amp that you are listening with.
   
  Also thanks for telling me about Nitin Sawhney! I just ordered used copies of Beyond Skin and Prophesy


----------



## tokendog

Gungnir ordered.  
   
  So this week hopefully, I'll have upgraded my amp to the Mjolnir, my DAC to the Gungnir, and my cable to the Q cable.  I'll have my LCD-2s back and I think I should have requested a vacation from work cause I don't think I will be very motivated to go any where once I start burning in that new combination.


----------



## earwaxxer

Quote: 





tokendog said:


> Gungnir ordered.
> 
> So this week hopefully, I'll have upgraded my amp to the Mjolnir, my DAC to the Gungnir, and my cable to the Q cable.  I'll have my LCD-2s back and I think I should have requested a vacation from work cause I don't think I will be very motivated to go any where once I start burning in that new combination.


 

 It should be a very sweet combo from all that I have read about the above. Its a great time to be an audiophile! I cant wait for my Gungnir to arrive. I think it will mate up well with my gear. Especially with the Emotiva. What I am expecting is that the Gungnir should tighten things up a bit, give a bit more clarity in complex scores, and a bit more 'realism' in the highs and mids. We will see!


----------



## mikek200

"Especially with the Emotiva."
   
Which Emotiva are you using??
   
I'm seriously looking to get the gungnir,but using a emo,not sure it will make that much of a difference,I know with the mjolnir ,it must.
   
Looking forward to your input.


----------



## Yuceka

Any Wyred4Sound or M-DAC owners using Gungnir now? They're relatively in the same price range and reported to have performed really well


----------



## earwaxxer

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> "Especially with the Emotiva."
> 
> Which Emotiva are you using??
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Mike - I have the XPA-2. I use a bottlehead tube preamp. My take on the XPA-2 is very much like those who have reviewed it - tight well behaved sound. Great bass. Great damping and control. Smooth on top without being 'rolled off'. No emphasis on certain frequencies. Very likeable and real sound, with of course tons of headroom. I also find the emo to be quite nicely 'analog' sounding. I'm very happy with it, and it has gotten better with time. One other thing, warm up seems to improve sound as well.
   
  I expect a modern DAC with very low jitter etc. would improve imaging from the emo. Also I would expect that a DAC such as the Gungnir would/should help with smear especially at higher volumes. Thats what I am dealing with now. I'm going to start with SPDIF input and 'grow' from there with advances in USB.


----------



## mikek200

Earwaxxer,
   
  Thanks for your reply.
   
  Yes,I'm getting the same  neutral sq on my emo 100,actually I like it,and gives a good balance against the mjolnir..
  ,I'm only using the emo,with my he-6's.
   
  " help with smear especially at higher volumes"
What is this?...like a veiling sound?
Not sure ,how you are able to go to high volume levels--even with my emo,which has half the power of your amp,I can't go past 10 o'clock,even that's too loud...on some of my newer cd's,{Albert Cummings},it's set to 8-9 o'clock
   
   
  Is there another dac,you might consider,other than the Gungnir..in the same price bracket?.I can't seem to find one.
   
  I've looked at a few of the audio-gd dacs,which got good reviews...but dollar vs. quality ,the Gungnir seems to fit the bill.
   
  Look forward to your emo/gungnir impressions.
   
  Tnx


----------



## earwaxxer

Quote: 





mikek200 said:


> Earwaxxer,
> 
> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Mike - There are quite a few DAC's out there that I feel would compete with the Gungnir. Audio-gd being one, Metrum is another. Eastern Electric Mini DAC comes to mind. April Music, Peachtree etc.
   
  It kind of depends on what sound you are looking for. I like the Gungnir for its upgrade-ability. I also know a bit about the ak43xx DAC chip. I have one in my Transporter. What Schiit is doing seems to make sense to me. No BS, just good engineering.
   
  The 'smearing' I was talking about is where it seems the distinctness of the different parts of the music seem to overlap at some point, especially as the volume goes up. Of course, only the very best and most expensive systems can play at concert levels and maintain their composure. Thats not the goal. I'm talking about moderate sound pressure levels. Such that you can listen with minimum fatigue for extended periods is desired.
   
  I am also looking forward to forming some impressions of the Gungnir! I dont expect that much, although if I get what I am looking for I will be pleased.


----------



## wkhanna

Quote:


pewterta said:


> If only I had a good way to hook up my B&W C5s to it, but alas I don't have any good headphone amp for them to test out the Gungnir with.


   
   
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thanks for the impressions, but to help us gauge them please share what headphone and amp that you are listening with.
> 
> Also thanks for telling me about Nitin Sawhney! I just ordered used copies of Beyond Skin and Prophesy


 
   
   
  Please do not ban us from Head-Fi.......
  Neither Dan or I are headphone aficionados.
  We come here cuz we appreciate the knowledge & no BS of the members, & cuz we are both impressed with the Schiit DACs.
  There is more discussion on Schiit here than anywhere else.
   
Dan is using a Rotel RB-1090 (modified) amp & Bowers & Wilkins 802D2's speakers.
I use the same modified RB-1090 & DIY speakers that are very, very similar in voicing to B&W 703's.
   
My system:

   
Dan's system:


----------



## earwaxxer

I'm like you guys. I'm pretty much agnostic when it comes to kit. - If it sounds good I will give it a try. My bank account is what keeps me grownded in 'reality'. Thats a good thing.
   
  Weather you are using headphones, cone speakers, plannar speakers, open baffle, horns, electrostats, subwoofers, towers, monitors or all of the above together at the same time, it doesnt matter. They all do the same thing. Vibrate air molecules. Now, when we get to where we can send a signal directly to auditory center in the brain, that will be a game changer!


----------



## scootermafia

I just ordered a USB Gungnir.  Hopefully it will beat my AudioGD RE-7...and I'd still be very hesitant to sell the RE-7 since it's not a common DAC.


----------



## earwaxxer

That will be a curious comparison! What dont you like about the RE-7?


----------



## 333jeffery

For folks that went from the Bifrost to the Gungnir, was there a dramatic improvement, or was it just an incremental one? I like my Bifrost/Lyr/HE500 combo but am wondering if I can squeeze a good bit more out of it with the Gungnir.


----------



## grokit

Quote:  
   
  Welcome to the club!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





> Please do not ban us from Head-Fi.......
> Neither Dan or I are headphone aficionados.
> We come here cuz we appreciate the knowledge & no BS of the members, & cuz we are both impressed with the Schiit DACs.
> There is more discussion on Schiit here than anywhere else.
> ...


 
   
  When asked that question, just say "HE-6"....no one will question the rest of that rig as a "headphone rig" after that ...it would appear normal...if not a little underbuilt


----------



## wkhanna

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> When asked that question, just say "HE-6...........


 
   
  [size=medium]Ha…[/size]
  [size=medium]So I take it the HE-6's are a tad bit on the power hungry side of the spectrum….???   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size]


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





wkhanna said:


> [size=medium]Ha…[/size]
> [size=medium]So I take it the HE-6's are a tad bit on the power hungry side of the spectrum….???
> 
> 
> ...


 

 They're best if plugged right into the breaker panel.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Nicknamed "earspeakers" after the AKG K1000 which was similar but less demanding,  it's common wisdom that they're not meant for headphone amps.  Most HE-6 owners are running them on speaker gear ranging from vintage stereo receivers through dual monoblocks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   The blocks are almost certainly overkill, but you get the idea...  It's a great headphone for stereophiles that want to wear their speakers on their ears but find Martin Logans a little on the heavy side for their heads.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  In fairness, even Lyr drives them....and they even sound good on it (but far from potential!)  And initial reports are that Mjolnir does a fantastic job! Then again Mjolnir is rated at 2x output of Lyr....so about 12wpc...it effectively _is_ a low power speaker amp.


----------



## themouse

iemcrazy said:


> In fairness, even Lyr drives them....and they even sound good on it (but far from potential!)  And initial reports are that Gungnir does a fantastic job! Then again Gungnir is rated at 2x output of Lyr....so about 12wpc...it effectively _is_ a low power speaker amp.




You mean Mjolnir? Gungnir is a DAC only.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





themouse said:


> You mean Mjolnir? Gungnir is a DAC only.


 

 Whoops, slip off the mind.  I fixed it in the post so it won't draw confusion later!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Whoops, slip off the mind.  I fixed it in the post so it won't draw confusion later!


 
  Gungnir helps things out a bit though.


----------



## earwaxxer

Gungnir shipped today! 6 days after I ordered it. Not bad at all! Very good turn around compared to the last 3 components I bought via internet. So far so good!


----------



## tmandry

Newbie head-fi'er here. Do you guys think that the benefit of a Gungnir would be wasted with Asgard or Valhalla amps? I recently picked up an Asgard to drive my ATH-M50's and was tempted to jump straight to a Gungnir for a DAC after reading about it here, though I can't afford to get a Mjolnir at the same time.


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





tmandry said:


> Newbie head-fi'er here. Do you guys think that the benefit of a Gungnir would be wasted with Asgard or Valhalla amps? I recently picked up an Asgard to drive my ATH-M50's and was tempted to jump straight to a Gungnir for a DAC after reading about it here, though I can't afford to get a Mjolnir at the same time.


 
  What are you using as a DAC right now? 
   
  If I were you, I'd start with something like Bifrost and get better cans with the rest of the money that you may set aside for a Gungnir.


----------



## justie

Quote: 





tmandry said:


> Newbie head-fi'er here. Do you guys think that the benefit of a Gungnir would be wasted with Asgard or Valhalla amps? I recently picked up an Asgard to drive my ATH-M50's and was tempted to jump straight to a Gungnir for a DAC after reading about it here, though I can't afford to get a Mjolnir at the same time.


 
  Wondering the same but with a Lyr instead of Asgard/Valhalla.


----------



## earwaxxer

I think its always tough to decide how much to spend when you have some options.
   
  I, personally, spend the most that I feel comfortable with, but only after EXHAUSTIVE research. I don't look back after that. To save a few hundred bucks when it really doesn't mean that much to you at the time, can turn out to be regrettable.


----------



## 45longcolt

Quote: 





tmandry said:


> Newbie head-fi'er here. Do you guys think that the benefit of a Gungnir would be wasted with Asgard or Valhalla amps? I recently picked up an Asgard to drive my ATH-M50's and was tempted to jump straight to a Gungnir for a DAC after reading about it here, though I can't afford to get a Mjolnir at the same time.


 
   
  Good question, and the answer will depend on your cans (I'm not familiar with the M50s) and budget. I was blissfully happy with the Bifrost/Lyr. But when I went to the Mjolnir, I noticed much music sounding slightly harsh with the Bi/Mj. Then I got the Gungnir, and all that went away. Not to mention even more detail, and a sense of relaxation and flow to the music (sorry for the imprecise audiophile blather, but hopefully you get the point.) I use Audeze LCD-3s, BTW.
   
  So, I would recommend the Gungnir if you can at all afford it (and you can hook it up to your speakers system as well, with the multiple outputs) because I suspect you'd have to spend a metric ton more money to really better it. In other words, buy it now and don't be tempted to upgrade in a few months, as you might be with the Bifrost.
   
  Haven't tried the Gun/Lyr combo, but must remember to do that if I ever get tired of the Mjolnir.


----------



## kwlinca

Anyone try the Gungnir/Mjolnir combo with sensitive iems?  Usable volume range?  Noise level?  Thanks!


----------



## Maxvla

I'll try my balanced UERM when I get home in about an hour.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





tmandry said:


> Newbie head-fi'er here. Do you guys think that the benefit of a Gungnir would be wasted with Asgard or Valhalla amps? I recently picked up an Asgard to drive my ATH-M50's and was tempted to jump straight to a Gungnir for a DAC after reading about it here, though I can't afford to get a Mjolnir at the same time.


 
   
  Do you have speakers? Are you planning on upgrading from the M50? The Gungnir is overkill for that headphone imo. I doubt you'd appreciate the improvement it presents over the cheaper Bifrost if you had such a limited transducer at the end of the chain. I suspect the baby Schiit amps would present a bottleneck as well. You'll reap more tangible rewards by upgrading your headphones first.


----------



## Maxvla

Sound on UERM is very good. No hiss or buzzing.


----------



## justie

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Do you have speakers? Are you planning on upgrading from the M50? The Gungnir is overkill for that headphone imo. I doubt you'd appreciate the improvement it presents over the cheaper Bifrost if you had such a limited transducer at the end of the chain. I suspect the baby Schiit amps would present a bottleneck as well. You'll reap more tangible rewards by upgrading your headphones first.


 
   
  Hmmm, then would hte lyr in a gungnir>lyr>LCD2 pose as a bottle neck as well? main reason is because the lyr was supposed to be a good compliment to the audezes and i need to upgrade my dac and im debating between getting a gungnir now and waiting for statement which was supposedly estimated to be revealed end of year


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





justie said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The LCD-2 is a lot of fun from the Lyr and you can tweak it to be more balanced with the right tubes. However the Lyr is nowhere as capable as the Mjolnir in terms of transparency, as refined in bass control and extension, or as accurate in imaging. If you're upgrading from the FiiO E7 in your profile the Gungnir will be an eyeopener. You just won't hear its best with the Lyr in the way.


----------



## justie

Thanks for that. Because im debating if I should just upgrade my entire chain or just the DAC. Also because rumors are going around that Schiit flagships coming around end of year and its ard october. Im worried im going to regret upgrading so soon :/ (or maybe I should wait until the flagship comes out and get a second hand gungnir if the flagship is over my budget. Hopefully 2nd hand prices drop when ppl rush to upgrade to the flagship hehe)
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> The LCD-2 is a lot of fun from the Lyr and you can tweak it to be more balanced with the right tubes. However the Lyr is nowhere as capable as the Mjolnir in terms of transparency, as refined in bass control and extension, or as accurate in imaging. If you're upgrading from the FiiO E7 in your profile the Gungnir will be an eyeopener. You just won't hear its best with the Lyr in the way.


----------



## olor1n

Why would you regret jumping on the Mjolnir/Gungnir when the statement gear is released? Schiit's TotL will be more expensive. Do you expect those components to be the same price as the mid-tiers?


----------



## justie

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Why would you regret jumping on the Mjolnir/Gungnir when the statement gear is released? Schiit's TotL will be more expensive. Do you expect those components to be the same price as the mid-tiers?


 
  Of course not the same price but im hoping that the price increase isnt too substantial like double or triple price of gungnir/mjolnir


----------



## olor1n

I doubt you'll see a mass exodus from the mid-tiers once the statement gear is released. Summit-Fiers and those who've held off on the mid-tiers will flock to the statement stuff, but the praise for the mid-tiers is unanimous. Performance beyond what I'm hearing now would be well in the realms of diminishing returns. I suspect marginal improvements with the TotL gear but also extra features to warrant the asking price (e.g. ability to drive speakers with the amp).
   
  The release of top tier components won't diminish what Jason and Mike have achieved with the Mjolnir/Gungnir. I anticipate the opposite, where people who don't require the extra bells and whistles will be referred to the mid-tiers for best value.


----------



## justie

Hmm, u make a compelling argument there. Im really tempted to get the gungnir mainly BECAUSE it has improvements in all the right places and everyone seems to agree on its benefits. Just not too sure on the mjolnir front though because i just recently started tube rolling the lyr haha XD


----------



## mackat

Well, I'm quite excited, I just ordered the Gungnir with USB this morning! I have been in the process of selling stuff that I don't need, so I have at least enough extra to pay for part of it! I also splurged and went with the AudioQuest Cinnamon USB cable and bought the full Audirvana+ and am using the new beta version with integer mode. So I am very happy! It will arrive only tomorrow since I'm lucky to live in such close proximity to Schiit!


----------



## Questhate

justie said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

From the early speculation, double is about right. I think it even mentions this on the Schiit website. 



mackat said:


> Well, I'm quite excited, I just ordered the Gungnir with USB this morning! I have been in the process of selling stuff that I don't need, so I have at least enough extra to pay for part of it! I also splurged and went with the AudioQuest Cinnamon USB cable and bought the full Audirvana+ and am using the new beta version with integer mode. So I am very happy! It will arrive only tomorrow since I'm lucky to live in such close proximity to Schiit!




Congrats Mackat! Looking forward to hearing how it pairs with your Crack --> HD650 rig. I think you'll like it.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





justie said:


> Hmm, u make a compelling argument there. Im really tempted to get the gungnir mainly BECAUSE it has improvements in all the right places and everyone seems to agree on its benefits. Just not too sure on the mjolnir front though because i just recently started tube rolling the lyr haha XD


 
   
  Tube rolling is fun but costly. No tube will elevate the Lyr to the level of the Mjolnir.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> The release of top tier components won't diminish what Jason and Mike have achieved with the Mjolnir/Gungnir. I anticipate the opposite, where people who don't require the extra bells and whistles will be referred to the mid-tiers for best value.


 
   
  Bingo.
   
  Aaannd...
   
  Expect the top of the line to cost 2X+ for the DAC and just under 2X for the amp, and expect to wait quite a while--development of the DAC got reset to zero this summer because of a new DSP platform (the old one went end-of-life, in electronics-speak). Q1 2013 is the new guess. I've stopped saying "anticipated" or "expected" because it seems to get translated into "promised" far too often.
   
  On the good news side, the new DSP platform is far more capable, which makes the statement DAC even more interesting. But it also does take us into new realms, which means more uncertainty, which means more time...


----------



## earwaxxer

Hey Justie - I understand your conundrum quite well! IMO, the sota for low to mid range priced DAC's is here with us now, for the choosing. When the economy starts showing some solid improvement those choices may 'evolve' to fancier kit and of course go northward in price. When you start talking about $1.5K and up to $3K the field starts getting very thick. This is not 'impulse buy' land. These companies are going to need to make higher profits on those. I say - go where the value is now.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Bingo.
> 
> Aaannd...
> 
> ...


 
   
  HDMI inputs this time? Black finish? I'll give you a deposit right now if that's the...case. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  -Daniel


----------



## earwaxxer

Well, I got the Gungnir today!
   
  I happen to be one of those audiophiles that likes to torture myself and experience the piece throughout the entire 'burn in'. In some cases that process can be painful (ex. JPS Labs speaker wire). In others its quite a joy. Good sound and smiles from the get go, only gets better with time.
   
  The Gungnir is one of those smiles from the get go pieces of kit! It bested my current rig out of the box! Thats nice! I can say that it bests my Transporter (Stereophile rated Class A by the way) for several reasons - 1. No op amps. 2. Re clock that signal outside of that noisy ass box! 3. Better power supply 4. Multi DAC chip approach. Bottom line - good, clean enjoyable MUSIC! I put music in caps because it different than sound. Thats the difference. I can quickly tell when the sound is better when it sounds better THROUGHOUT the room, not just the sweet spot. These are subtle differences for sure. Very much influenced by subjective variables. Is the sound 'going in the right direction' - most definately. Thats all I really care about anyway.
   
  Question now is: I have a decent 75 ohm RCA but I now have the option of using BNC out from my Transporter. Any recommendations would be much appreciated!

   
   
  thanks - Eric


----------



## dleblanc343

Add me to the club too!


----------



## BournePerfect

Nice! What else have you heard the HE6's on?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Roscoeiii

Quote: 





earwaxxer said:


> Question now is: I have a decent 75 ohm RCA but I now have the option of using BNC out from my Transporter. Any recommendations would be much appreciated!
> 
> 
> thanks - Eric


 

 In general, BNC seems to be thought of as a better digital interface.


----------



## dleblanc343

bourneperfect said:


> Nice! What else have you heard the HE6's on?
> 
> -Daniel




Ive heard them on all of the rotel integrated's and two mono, a roksan integrated, some audiolab integrated's, vintage quad 303 and quad preamp feeding it, a vela audio integrated and for headphone amps, the mjolnir, bha-1, b22, ef-6, wa22 and little dot mk vi...

I settled for the mjolnir as its less cumbersome and did "more things better" than most of the speaker amps. The quads (which are completely modified and slightly modernized) sounded so amazing and musical, but resolution really took a hit because of its age. And they didnt stage very well unfortunately. Rotel was too sharp.

I wish i could try some emotiva monos locally, curious about the hype around them and the he-6


----------



## earwaxxer

Ok - 24hs + on the Gungnir now.
   
  Sitting down for some listening. Nice 'timber'. More flesh on the bones. A good example - at the end of Supertramp 'Dreamer' there are some tinkling 'bells'. At least I always thought they were bells as in metal. Now I'm hearing clearly that these are made of glass! Very cool.
   
  Also less fatigue at higher volumes. One other observation - transients are the best I have heard, with what I might call very good decay. I'm likin it!


----------



## Solude

Anyone unhappy with the Mjolnir & Gungnir stack?  I originally thought the Mjolnir was quite excellent but a little overly lively, top tilted and less precise imaging wise from the Peak.
   
  That said I've since changed DACs and now would consider my previous DAC shouty and having average imaging in comparison but still darker than neutral.
   
  So tonally is the Gungnir more shifted down or up?  Anyone have comparisons to DAC in the 2K+ range?


----------



## dleblanc343

I'd say the gungnir is tilted a bit more down, but I can't compare with many dacs unfortunately.


----------



## earwaxxer

Quote: 





solude said:


> Anyone unhappy with the Mjolnir & Gungnir stack?  I originally thought the Mjolnir was quite excellent but a little overly lively, top tilted and less precise imaging wise from the Peak.
> 
> That said I've since changed DACs and now would consider my previous DAC shouty and having average imaging in comparison but still darker than neutral.
> 
> So tonally is the Gungnir more shifted down or up?  Anyone have comparisons to DAC in the 2K+ range?


 

 I wouldnt say that the Gungnir is either shifted up or down, Its cleaner and more defined, and shall I say 'boulder' than my $2K Transporter. My Transporter is a bit anemic. Also much more 'refined' than my 10 yr old MSB. The MSB was a bit raw compared to the refinement of the Transporter, but has a nice analog quality to the sound. There is a bit less of that digital sharpness that tends to cause fatigue. I'm not sure I would call that a shift down. I am also using tubes for a preamp. Its battery powered and now, with the Gungnir, I can very subtly hear the difference between my 50V pack and my 30V
  pack. I didnt hear that difference before.


----------



## BenchmarkGrado

Any experience / comment with Gungnir >> Lyr >> ????


----------



## Solude

By tonally shifted I mean frequency balance.  Ie does the Gungnir have monster bass or piercing treble


----------



## Jono338

Hi All,
   
  has anyone had any success running the gungnir from a squeezebox touch with the Enhanced Digital Output app?
   
  Which is to say I'm not ... the sound is completely distorted. Some tracks are almost recognisable, but must are pretty much just musical static.
   
  Jon


----------



## wkhanna

Quote: 





earwaxxer said:


> Ok - 24hs + on the Gungnir now..........................
> ................... I'm likin it!


 
  Agreed. Same experiance here.


----------



## mwindham08

This is probably a no brainer but would there be a noticeable difference between the Gungnir and the Asus Essence one? I'm currently using the E1 as my DAC and amp for the T1 but hopefully will be receiving the Woo Audio WA2 in the next few weeks. I use FLAC files as my source so I'm thinking the E1 will most likely be the weak link in my chain so to speak.


----------



## earwaxxer

solude said:


> By tonally shifted I mean frequency balance.  Ie does the Gungnir have monster bass or piercing treble




Hey Solude - As far as any frequency peaks or valleys with the Gungnir, I cant really hear any. If anything, the bass is 'better' than my other 2 DAC's. I would say mid bass to low mids are quick, clear and well defined without bloat or smear.

 My system is not a good judge for low bass because my maggies only go down to about 60hz, so I will take all the bass i can get from my mains. My Emotiva also does bass very well. Great combo for bookshelf or small speaker as well. My sub runs off its own DAC so it gets a different signal. 

What I can comment on is the mids and highs. Very happy camper there. No sibilance. Big sound, but not puffy or smearing. Not rolled off either. 

I was also considering the Metrum Octave. I went with Schiit due to made in USA and I like the name! I would expect the Metrum to sound very much like the Gungnir according to the reviews. It will be interesting to see a comparison between those.


----------



## Solude

My hunt for a PWD2 isn't going well so I might well have the Schiit stack soon.  Promised myself I would wait for the internal shots to be posted but my Audiophilleo trial isn't until the end of time so I have to get on with it.


----------



## Loevhagen

The Burson Soloist sounds more "bright" than the Schiit Mjolnir - and that using the same DAC / headphone / music.
   
  I have ordered the Gungnir and hope it is not too tuned to "the dark"...


----------



## Double F

I'm looking for a less piercing DAC.  The ESS Sabre Tooth chip in my current set up is very shrill at the top end.  I would like to get a view of the Gungnir's internals.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> The Burson Soloist sounds more "bright" than the Schiit Mjolnir - and that using the same DAC / headphone / music.


 
   
  Wow really?  Do you leave your gear on?  I found neither terribly bassy, but the Soloist was clearly more laid back in my rig.  Like a better B22 with slightly worse bass extension.  The Mjolnir I found clearly more energetic, and though not tonally tilted up it was more fatiguing in comparison.  Interesting.


----------



## Loevhagen

OT Warning:
   
  The Soloist is less fun than the Mjolnir. I could fall asleep listening to the Soloist with some good music playing (i.e. a good thing actually). I would really strive to get some sleep using the Mjolnir. 
   
  Having switched back and forth between the Soloist and the Mjolnir (using the LCD-3 and DAC V800), the difference in the amplifiers sound signature is significant. I would dare to say that the Soloist is "boring" and the Mjolnir is "engaging". And in addition, the Soloist is de facto tuned a tad more bright than the Mjolnir. That does not mean the Soloist is bright.
   
  The soundstage depth of the Mjolnir is less than the Soloist. The width not that different - if you listen carefully. The "lack" of depth of the Mjolnir tends to impose the impression that the Mjolnir sounds wider...
   
  Disclaimer: Long time listening impressions.


----------



## Solude

Agreed.


----------



## Loevhagen

Phew.


----------



## earwaxxer

solude said:


> My hunt for a PWD2 isn't going well so I might well have the Schiit stack soon.  Promised myself I would wait for the internal shots to be posted but my Audiophilleo trial isn't until the end of time so I have to get on with it.




I see - so thinking about a used PWD2? They might be hard to find - cheap that is. New ones are pricey, by the time you add the 'lenses' etc. You can get into some of the new 'femto' DAC's up around that price (ex. MSB, CAYLX FEMTO DAC). I would probably look at Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC ll if I was in the PWD2 ballpark. 

IMO, Gungnir is in that audiophile 'impulse buy' price range. Lets just say, as much of what you would call an impulse buy for an audiophile, who is most likely extremely calculating and obsessive with their purchases!


----------



## Argo Duck

+1 - if Gungnir supplies the 'natural' sound the Octave is reported to have, together with the detail and top and bottom extension reported about the Gungnir, this makes Schiit's new dac a winner in my book...
   
  Quote: 





earwaxxer said:


> I was also considering the Metrum Octave. I went with Schiit due to made in USA and I like the name! I would expect the Metrum to sound very much like the Gungnir according to the reviews. *It will be interesting to see a comparison between those*.


----------



## Loevhagen

I expect the Gungnir to show up on the doorstep in a couple of days - and it will be benchmarked towards the Violectric V800 and the NAD M51.
   
  I really "hate" the NAD because it sounds like gold / winner. Crap. I bought the NAD to serve as pre-amplifier to a pair of active Dynaudio Focus 110A. 
   
  Anyway; looking forward to listen to the Gniungenir.


----------



## olor1n

A detailed comparison to the M51 is one I've been waiting for. Bonus that you'll have the Mjolnir in place as well.
   
  Is your Dynaudio Focus 110A a recent acquisition? They were on top of my list when considering actives but they don't seem to be available in Australia anymore. Can you recommend a source that may ship overseas? Do you have pics to further torment my desire for them?


----------



## Argo Duck

Given Loevhagen's excellent camera skills, your torment will know no bounds olor1n!


----------



## earwaxxer

loevhagen said:


> I expect the Gungnir to show up on the doorstep in a couple of days - and it will be benchmarked towards the Violectric V800 and the NAD M51.
> 
> I really "hate" the NAD because it sounds like gold / winner. Crap. I bought the NAD to serve as pre-amplifier to a pair of active Dynaudio Focus 110A.
> 
> Anyway; looking forward to listen to the Gniungenir.




Wow! That will be interesting! Cant wait to hear what you think!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> I expect the Gungnir to show up on the doorstep in a couple of days - and it will be benchmarked towards the Violectric V800 and the NAD M51.
> 
> I really "hate" the NAD because it sounds like gold / winner. Crap. I bought the NAD to serve as pre-amplifier to a pair of active Dynaudio Focus 110A.
> 
> Anyway; _looking forward to listen to the *Gniungenir*._


 
  This is what we've been waiting for! 
   
  LOL!


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





earwaxxer said:


> I see - so thinking about a used PWD2? They might be hard to find - cheap that is. New ones are pricey, by the time you add the 'lenses' etc. You can get into some of the new 'femto' DAC's up around that price (ex. MSB, CAYLX FEMTO DAC). I would probably look at Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC ll if I was in the PWD2 ballpark.


 
   
  Super easy to find new for $2600, used for $2300 all day.  But I want one for $1900


----------



## earwaxxer

solude said:


> Super easy to find new for $2600, used for $2300 all day.  But I want one for $1900




Oh, ok - for under 2 grand. That doesnt sound to bad. I would probably go for that as well. I already have the transport part of that in the Transporter. If I didnt have that then, for sure, the PWD would be a good way to go.


----------



## scootermafia

First impressions:
  Mjolnir/Gungnir combo is clean, refined, bright, and spacious.  It is a lot of fun to listen to, and it may be better than my previous setup, I'm still deciding.  It has a crapton of detail and seems to have much more noticeable treble.  The built in USB is very good but I'm sensing that my Audiophilleo 1 + BNC sounds a little better.  The previous combo of B22 and RE-7 is very laid back by comparison.  The Mjolnir is broken in but the Gungnir I just now took delivery on, so it could be a while...


----------



## olor1n

I find usb to be a tad grainy compared to optical. I use a Furutech Formula 2 (usb) and Silflex glass toslink, fwiw. The difference is minuscule, though slight fatigue after extended use is what keeps me from preferring usb.


----------



## Solude

Anyone else using the Gungnir with an AP2 or JKSPDIF?


----------



## SourceGuy

I agree. The USB is a touch grainy/edgy compared to the optical and it's quite noticeable.


----------



## 45longcolt

Quote: 





earwaxxer said:


> IMO, Gungnir is in that audiophile 'impulse buy' price range. Lets just say, as much of what you would call an impulse buy for an audiophile, who is most likely extremely calculating and obsessive with their purchases!


 






 x2 ...expensive impulses...
   
  Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> OT Warning:
> 
> The Soloist is less fun than the Mjolnir. I could fall asleep listening to the Soloist with some good music playing (i.e. a good thing actually). I would really strive to get some sleep using the Mjolnir.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Loevhagen, I think you'll find that with the Gungnir, the Mjolnir can be relaxing, given the right recording of course...


----------



## mackat

I'm having a bit of a problem with my Gungnir, you can read about it here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/audirvana-plus-direct-mode-12261/index36.html


----------



## Loko-Pillo

Quote: 





mackat said:


> I'm having a bit of a problem with my Gungnir, you can read about it here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/audirvana-plus-direct-mode-12261/index36.html


 
  Yeah! I get that too.
   
  Not so often, but it does happen (maybe in extended listening sessions, not sure).
   
  The sound gets quite weird with lots of distortion, quite disturbing. lol
   
   
  So it's only the USB connection then?
   
   
  Also, I have to add from reading your link (and my experience, definitely) that Schiit's costumer service is quite special. Jason answers so quickly, and doing his best to help. Respect.


----------



## SourceGuy

Hey Mackat - I get the same thing through my USB (AQ Cinammon) with files upsampled to 192 or playing native at 192. I use Pure Music. It happens every now and then and yes it is a very disturbing sound. Screechy yet extremely muddled with lots of echo. Could be the computer getting bogged down. It comes and goes and sometimes never occurs. I like the optical or coax input best so it doesn't really matter to me.


----------



## wkhanna

Quote: 





mackat said:


> I'm having a bit of a problem with my Gungnir....


 
  I have had the Bifrost since Feb, & the Gungnir for 3 weeks.
 I only use the Toslink output from my NAS with both Foobar & JRiver with ASIO2ALLv2.
 Never had Any issues.


----------



## earwaxxer

Wow! Those are bizarre and disturbing problems. Its the first I am reading of it. I'm glad I didnt order the USB.


----------



## plsvn

Quote: 





mackat said:


> I'm having a bit of a problem with my Gungnir, you can read about it here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/audirvana-plus-direct-mode-12261/index36.html


 
   
  ... same here with a Bifrost connected via USB to a MacMini, but very sporadic: it can happen many times in a day or never in one/two weeks and usually the issue only lasts a few seconds
   
  on Audirvana's forum there's another customer reporting the same issue but he is not using a Schiit dac
   
   
  I bought the Bifrost without USB card then... found that Mac (minis for sure) optical out doesn't go beyond 24-96 so...*had* to add it afterwards :-/


----------



## mackat

Yeah, I'm almost wishing I didn't order it with USB either...I sent Tim Cook an email today asking him to please up the optical to 192...the hardware is quite capable. Hopefully someone on his staff is an audiophile...


----------



## olor1n

I've owned 2 Bifrosts that have exhibited the same screeching usb issue mackat has outlined. The first had other problems that was diagnosed as requiring a board replacement. In the end that unit was replaced by a brand new Bifrost that has worked without the serious sync issues I could no longer tolerate. However, the screeching usb would still randomly occur but come good after a few seconds like it did with the previous Bifrost. The usb issue occurred regardless of software (iTunes/Fidelia/BitPerfect). Changing cables did not isolate the issue and I've had it happen on a number of different MacBooks running different os'. It was sporadic and I could go weeks without it rearing its head. Never had this issue with other dacs (Audio-GD) via usb.
   
  It has happend a few times via usb with my Gungnir as well. I now mainly use toslink so it's not a pressing matter for me, with usb there for versatility. I suspect a driver issue, but it is a concern many others have experienced the same thing (as per mackat's link). If it's deemed a hardware issue with the usb interface I'd want that problem addressed.


----------



## Questhate

Just to add another data point, I haven't run into the issue that mackat described at all yet. Not even once after two weeks of heavy listening. 

Running exclusively though USB on Windows 7.


----------



## mackat

Lucky!!! Apparently many people have.


----------



## Loevhagen

The aforementioned screeching issue have also happened using other DACs - and Audirvana. I put my 2 cents on Audirvana being the root cause here.


----------



## Solude

And Jason agrees...
   
_"Jason responded and told me to use Amarra or BitPerfect."_


----------



## Loevhagen

I guess it's too late - the damage is done. In about 3 weeks time, the Gungnir will be a screeching urban legend. That's just the way it is.


----------



## Solude

Joys of not using a common USB solution.


----------



## plsvn

Quote: 





solude said:


> And Jason agrees...
> 
> _"Jason responded and told me to use Amarra or BitPerfect."_


 
   
  actually when I asked Jason about this, he just told me they do not use/have tested Audirvana, not that A whas the culprit
   
   
  oh... and Damien (Audirvana's developer) *never* said a single word on this matter :-/


----------



## rwelles

I've experienced the same issue (upper freq. screeching/unearthly resonance) on my Gungnir. I'm using Mac Pro with Pure Music via USB (AudioQuest cable). It's very infrequent. I'm waiting for it to happen again to verify that it's the Gungnir and not the Mjolnir, but based on this thread, the Gungnir is the likely suspect. *Never* happened with my previous DAC (DacMagic Plus). If I stop the track and go back to the beginning of the track, it goes away. 
   
  Hope there's a resolution....


----------



## dleblanc343

It seems to only  be happening to mac users..


----------



## Loevhagen

... since Audirvana is for OSX only, that's quite obvious.


----------



## plsvn

... but, it seems, not only with Schiit DACs: another user, on Audirvana support forum, is using the M2TECH Hiface EVO
   
  and not only with Audirvana, as others have reported in this thread
   
   
  the mistery goes on


----------



## Loevhagen

I have had the same issue using NAD M51 and Audirvana. Almost got a heart attack. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I converted to TOS-link.


----------



## mackat

It's really interesting, some people say the screeching happens with other DACs using Audirvana+, some say it happens on the Bifrost/Gungnir using anything, some say it never happens, some say it always happens. I'm going to keep it...if it only recurs once a day of less, it's a manageable glitch, that might eventually be fixed when better USB technology is out and they offer a USB upgrade card.

So I say go buy it guys!!!

P.S. Sorry Jason, I didn't mean to cause any bad reputation for it, just was curious as to others' experiences.


----------



## earwaxxer

mackat said:


> y
> So I say go buy it guys!!!
> P.S. Sorry Jason, I didn't mean to cause any bad reputation for it, just was curious as to others' experiences.




+3
Oh, absolutely! USB is EVOLVING. SPDIF has been around FOREVER in comparison. Lets not be in a hurry! 

Same thing with good audiophile grade class D amps. There are many out there, but few that do it right (you can probably count them on one hand). 

Schiit has never claimed to have the best USB tech out there, and even if they did, its probably still going to have some bugs. It was a lot worse say, 5+ years ago, when USB was very young. Us ethernet squeezebox guys were just sitting back and watching the show. We still are. If it aint broken, dont fix it!

Too bad Logitech is ditching the whole thing! 

If I were to switch to USB now, I would expect MANY hurdles to cross before I was 'settled' with it. Most likely spending hundreds of dollars in the process.


----------



## grokit

mackat said:


> Schiit has never claimed to have the best USB tech out there




It would be nice to know a little more about it, like is it XMOS or Tenor-based:

_"one of the most advanced asynchronous USB 2.0 input sections available"_

_edit: _nvm, here's more:

_"Gungnir’s USB input is one of the most advanced implementations available today, featuring a high-speed USB 2.0 interface (not 1.1) and asynchronous data transfer to 24/192, based on the C-Media CM6631 USB receiver."_

I haven't read much about this USB receiver chip, but MHDT's USB Bridge is built around it:

_"Since USBridge is in asynchronous operation, additional oscillators are used for USBridge as the more accurate clock sources and to achieve lower digital signal jitter. 49.152MHz is for 48/96/192KHz sample rate data and 45.1584MHz is for 44.1/88.2/176.4KHz data. These oscillators are specially ordered by Mhdt Labs for 10 ppm status."_

I wonder if the Shiit version uses these additional oscillators or something else...


----------



## plsvn

Quote: 





mackat said:


> I'm going to keep it...if it only recurs once a day of less, it's a manageable glitch


 
   
  ... it actually is a very random glitch (that only lasts a few seconds then goes away by itself) and it may never happen in weeks
  (but when it happens... it's very unlikely it is only once  )
   
  my solution is... use optical for everything but 24-192 files 
   
  and I'm actually much more upset by Apple limiting its optical out, than with Jason or Damien


----------



## earwaxxer

All I am saying is that, early on, it appeared to me that Schiit did not set out to dominate the USB interface DAC. I believe what they said initially about USB being the junk food of DAC convenience. Of course these kind of 'kinks' are unacceptable in a finished product. I just dont think you should through the baby out with the bath water. 

The squeezebox server, back in the day, was a clunky POS software that was constantly being revised. You were constantly uninstalling and installing new versions. People complained like hell about it - as they should! You learned your workarounds.


----------



## .Sup

anyone tried USB with camera connection kit / ipad?


----------



## Solude

I love how a software has errors and all of a sudden its Schiit's fault.  Apple people have problems in iTunes?  No?  Not Schiit's problem


----------



## mackat

.sup said:


> anyone tried USB with camera connection kit / ipad?


 Someone on Computer Audiophile, everyone else (including Jason) says it doesn't work.


----------



## darinf

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *plsvn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> my solution is... use optical for everything but 24-192 files


 
  I don't have a Schiit DAC, but have any of you that do done any comparison with 24/192 files via USB and the same file downsampled an fed through optical?
   
  Can you really hear the difference? If optical is done right, in theory, shouldn't it sound better than USB?
   
  Not trying to start a troll post, but just curious if that has been discussed here about the Gungnir.


----------



## mackat

Yes, In fact I just did last night, and the difference was surprisingly noticeable to me-I thought it would've been much more minor. I don't like downsampling much anyway, but I definitely heard a difference for the worse!


----------



## .Sup

mackat said:


> Someone on Computer Audiophile, everyone else (including Jason) says it doesn't work.



thanks for info. Odd cos every dac I tried works


----------



## grokit

solude said:


> I love how a software has errors and all of a sudden its Schiit's fault.  Apple people have problems in iTunes?  No?  Not Schiit's problem




Agreed, the problems seem to be isolated to Macs running Audirvana Plus: Direct Mode. Also the C-Media CM6631 seems to have been around for a while now and has worked without problems other than this. I wouldn't be surprised if it was limited to Lion/Mountain Lion Users either


----------



## plsvn

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Agreed, the problems seem to be isolated to Macs running Audirvana Plus: Direct Mode


 
   
  nope: a little up this thread a user reported the same issue using BitPerfect


----------



## mackat

I love Macs, (especially my brand-new iMac that was much too expensive), but do agree, that at times PCs do music better. Do they always automatically change sample rate, or do you still have to change it manually? The only way to do it automatically on a Mac is with Audirvana+ and some other even fancier programs. Also, if I put Windows on a partition of the iMac, I can use the 192kHz on the Optical Out. I'll be installing Windows 8 trial version and buying it if I like it. I do admit, Windows 7 is almost on par with Mac OS X in functionality for me, I just like the Mac interface so much better. And the tank-ness of the iMac, it's 30.5 pounds, and feels like its built like a brick...you get the picture.


----------



## grokit

plsvn said:


> grokit said:
> 
> 
> > Agreed, the problems seem to be isolated to Macs running Audirvana Plus: Direct Mode
> ...




I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with both of them not playing well with the new Mac OS. 

OT but I just had to give up on my Drobo and I'm not the only one :mad:


----------



## plsvn

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with both of them not playing well with the new Mac OS.


 
   
  I wouldn't be surprised if it has, instead, something to do with USB implementation on Lion and ML: when the first was introduced I got mad for months with my external HDs (which, probably, has no relation with this matter)


----------



## wkhanna

[size=12pt]I just got my Gungnir back from Dan (PewterTA) who was using it while I was out of town.
 It has well over 200 hrs on it now.[/size]
 [size=12pt]It is even more balanced, musical & just plain sweet at everything.[/size]

 [size=12pt]Big revelation, though……….[/size]

 [size=12pt]Dan also brought his brand new MF V-Link2.[/size]
 [size=12pt]We compared it to the SoundBlaster Audigy 2 XS Sound Card in my NAS using Toslink output.
 ASIO4ALLv2 & Foobar used for both during the comparison.[/size]
 [size=12pt]I am ordering the V-Link this week.[/size]
 [size=12pt]The difference was immediately obvious as we toggled back and forth.[/size]
 [size=12pt]Better definition, clarity, improved 3D soundstage, like the proverbial veil being lifted. [/size]

[size=12pt]The improved performance well exceeds the $200 investment.[/size]


----------



## Solude

Well duh, the Audigy resamples everything to 48K 
   
  Do get the V-Link 192 though, not the 2.  Its only $250 and its an XMOS.
   
  Back on the bug people are blaming Schiit for.  Even if it was the USB, thats on C-Media to fix up the driver.  But like I experienced with my AP2... its the program.  For example, I thought it pretty lame that the AP2 didn't support event style wasapi.  And then I tried it on JRiver and low and behold, its a foobar problem.
   
  Same thing here.
   
  Now how's about some reviews


----------



## plsvn

Quote: 





wkhanna said:


> [size=12pt]I am ordering the V-Link this week.[/size]


 
   
  ... so... you buy a non-upsampling DAC then you feed it with an upsampling device? =


----------



## earwaxxer

Ok, time for a deep breath! 

Listening update....100+ hrs on the Gungnir now. Coax out from the Transporter. Near-field listening through the maggies. Nice 'body'. No digital 'hash'. I'm listening to some old, rather crappy recordings - ex. really old Genesis, Jimi Hendrix. Albums that tend to sound a bit 'thin'. Can be a bit harsh on the high peaks. I'm quite comfortable listening here. The speakers positioned about 5' from my listening position. Much like having headphones on. I can hear EVERYTHING that comes from the speaker. Nice staging between and behind the speakers. 

I must add.. I have upsampled ALL of my files to 24/96, apodizing filter etc. etc. etc. That makes a difference. The Gungnir takes advantage of it! 

If you are sick of 'hash' for breakfast, lunch and dinner - use your computer for what it is good at - process your redbook!

"I heard the old man tell his tail...."


----------



## wkhanna

Quote: 





solude said:


> Do get the V-Link 192 though, not the 2.  Its only $250 and its an XMOS.


 
   
   
  My bad.....I meant the 192.
  And it is only $200 now at Music Direct & Audio Advisor.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





wkhanna said:


> And it is only $200 now at Music Direct & Audio Advisor.


 
  ORLY? Time for some AP2 comparisons


----------



## judmarc

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with both of them not playing well with the new Mac OS.
> OT but I just had to give up on my Drobo and I'm not the only one


 

 - The feedback/screeching happens only with my Bifrost, not once in hundreds of hours of listening to my Dragonfly.
   
  - It happens with all players, not just Audirvana Plus.
   
  - It happened with Snow Leopard as well as Lion and Mountain Lion.
   
  - I don't recall whether any of the people who posted about this some months ago re the Bifrost over in the huge Schiit DAC info and anticipation thread were using Windows.
   
  - I tried the other inputs, liked USB better, so I don't know whether it happens with coax or optical.  But it does happen with USB.  (For me, I'd say once or twice a week.)  I consider this a defect, so the question is whether it's bothersome enough to put you off using the Bifrost or Gungnir.  I've still got my Bifrost, so there's my answer.  Would be a good thing if Jason and Mike figured out what was going on and how to stop it, though.


----------



## earwaxxer

judmarc said:


> I've still got my Bifrost, so there's my answer.  Would be a good thing if Jason and Mike figured out what was going on and how to stop it, though.




+1

Some answers would be good!


----------



## Maxvla

Compared the Gungnir and Audiolab MDAC at Dallas meet today. I and a few others tried it both balanced and unbalanced and the result was a unanimous win by the Gungnir though the differences were slight. The MDAC is ~$900, the Gungnir $750.


----------



## Darkbeat

maxvla said:


> Compared the Gungnir and Audiolab MDAC at Dallas meet today. I and a few others tried it both balanced and unbalanced and the result was a unanimous win by the Gungnir though the differences were slight. The MDAC is ~$900, the Gungnir $750.




Mostly due to the cost to import. The Gungnir is considerably more expensive than the M-DAC in Europe.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Compared the Gungnir and Audiolab MDAC at Dallas meet today. I and a few others tried it both balanced and unbalanced and the result was a unanimous win by the Gungnir though the differences were slight. The MDAC is ~$900, the Gungnir $750.


 
   
  In Australia, the Gungnir with usb is $1039 and the M-DAC is $948. The comparison you've posted actually favours the M-DAC in my estimation, considering it has a built in HP amp, remote, selectable filters, display etc.
   
  Still enjoy the Schiity stack though.


----------



## olor1n

HeadphoneAddict posted this Gungnir/Mjolnir impression from RMAF, for those still on the fence about these components -
   
   
  Quote:


headphoneaddict said:


> Impressions Part 2 - Day Three RMAF 2012  [...]
> 
> (1)  I revisited the *Schitt Audio Gungnir and Mjolnir *with the LCD-3 today, focusing more on the source and amp this time - For $749 each, this balanced DAC and amp combo is almost a no-brainer, even with spending the extra $100 to add the USB DAC.  I'm not all about specs as the sound is more important, and as soon as I started listening I forgot about anything but the music.  Jason Stoddard had some great music on his Macbook, that revealed the depth and clarity of this gear to demonstrate what seemed to be the full capability of the LCD-3 headphones.  Last year after RMAF I posted that I would be buying the LCD-3 over the SR-009, and then a month later ordered the 009, but I never ruled out the LCD-3.
> 
> ...


----------



## Blurpapa

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Compared the Gungnir and Audiolab MDAC at Dallas meet today. I and a few others tried it both balanced and unbalanced and the result was a unanimous win by the Gungnir though the differences were slight. The MDAC is ~$900, the Gungnir $750.


 
  Hi Maxvla! Thanks for this. I am particularly interested in this pair as I own the MDAC, and was wondering if the Gungnir would be an upgrade for my stack. May I have more details on why the Gungnir bests the MDAC pls? Thanks in advance!


----------



## Solude

Audiolab has always been Schiit like in delivering high value, no nonsense products so its not surprising that the two are neck and neck.
   
  Any impressions from W4S DAC-2 owners?


----------



## jackiedh

Originally Posted by *.Sup* 



 anyone tried USB with camera connection kit / ipad?
  Quote: 





mackat said:


> Someone on Computer Audiophile, everyone else (including Jason) says it doesn't work.


 
_ I use my IPAD & CCK USB to the GUNGIR all the time--Absolutely no problems!!!_
   
_Jack_


----------



## Maxvla

olor1n said:


> In Australia, the Gungnir with usb is $1039 and the M-DAC is $948. The comparison you've posted actually favours the M-DAC in my estimation, considering it has a built in HP amp, remote, selectable filters, display etc.
> 
> Still enjoy the Schiity stack though.



I don't need a subpar amp and remote or a display. I tried all the filters and none of them sounded as good as the Gungnir.


----------



## Maxvla

blurpapa said:


> Hi Maxvla! Thanks for this. I am particularly interested in this pair as I own the MDAC, and was wondering if the Gungnir would be an upgrade for my stack. May I have more details on why the Gungnir bests the MDAC pls? Thanks in advance!



Most agreed the highs were somewhat smeared on the MDAC and that detail overall was just not as good. People were also complaining about the volume knob not responding correctly to input. It's a digital volume control so the knob is there mostly for show and it was working oddly for sure. Turn it slightly and it jumps up in volume, turn it a lot and nothing happens, etc. Typical digital volume from a knob.


----------



## Darkbeat

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> *I* don't need a subpar amp and remote or a display. I tried all the filters and none of them sounded as good as the Gungnir.


 
*You* might not, but others might find these features endearing or even useful.
   
  FWIW, in the UK, the Gungnir with USB is £300 ($500ish) more than the M-DAC.


----------



## Blurpapa

maxvla said:


> Most agreed the highs were somewhat smeared on the MDAC and that detail overall was just not as good. People were also complaining about the volume knob not responding correctly to input. It's a digital volume control so the knob is there mostly for show and it was working oddly for sure. Turn it slightly and it jumps up in volume, turn it a lot and nothing happens, etc. Typical digital volume from a knob.




Thanks for taking the time to reply Maxvla!


----------



## .Sup

jackiedh said:


> Originally Posted by *.Sup*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for this info Jack!


----------



## Maxvla

Also at the Dallas meet yesterday, everyone who compared the Gungnir with the Bifrost said the Gungnir was a clear upgrade even when using unbalanced output.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Also at the Dallas meet yesterday, everyone who compared the Gungnir with the Bifrost said the Gungnir was a clear upgrade even when using unbalanced output.


 
  One would hope so...
   
  Mighty tempted by this DAC


----------



## preproman

Only M-DAC comparisons?


----------



## ceausuc

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Most agreed the highs were somewhat smeared on the MDAC and that detail overall was just not as good. People were also complaining about the volume knob not responding correctly to input. It's a digital volume control so the knob is there mostly for show and it was working oddly for sure. Turn it slightly and it jumps up in volume, turn it a lot and nothing happens, etc. Typical digital volume from a knob.


 
   
  What transport was used to compare the DACs? Thank you.


----------



## Blurpapa

--double post--


----------



## Blurpapa

Quote: 





solude said:


> Audiolab has always been Schiit like in delivering high value, no nonsense products so its not surprising that the two are neck and neck.


 
   
  Plus the fact that both brands share a similar lean and detailed sound signature.
  OK, maybe the new king goes deeper.....


----------



## earwaxxer

I wouldnt call the Gungnir sound lean.

In comparison my Transporter is for sure lean sounding. I'm not surprised about that though. I have known for awhile the Transporter was lean, thats why adding tubes to the preamp was a big help. My old MSB is also meatier and has better timber than the Transporter. I think that has to do with op amps or lack there of.


----------



## tokendog

At the end of this week, I should have my Gungnjir to pair with my Mjolnir.  I'll be using a Q cable for the LCD-2.2s and a Lifatec optical cable from my computer.
   
  I've heard the HD-800 from the Gungnir / Mjolnir is a great match up and now am wondering if any one has experience with those two that can do a comparison to hold me over until I'm able to afford the cables for the HD-800s.  Basically, I'm wondering how the LCD-2.2s vs the HD-800s sound coming out of the Schiit stack.


----------



## Maxvla

ceausuc said:


> What transport was used to compare the DACs? Thank you.



Rotel RDD980 Coaxial


----------



## totacelasi

maxvla said:


> Also at the Dallas meet yesterday, everyone who compared the Gungnir with the Bifrost said the Gungnir was a clear upgrade even when using unbalanced output.




Can you detail more the differences from Bifrost and Gungir. I want to buy Bifrost and I want to know what I lose ...


----------



## Maxvla

As you found my amp review you'll see my comments on the difference in dacs.


----------



## justie

Guys, im thinking of getting the gungnir in 2 weeks but i need to ask about the cables i should use for these. My desktop has toslink so ill be looking for one to connect between the gungnir and desktop. Can anyone recommend me a decent toslink cable that doesnt break the bank?
   
  Whats important here isnt top performance but more bang for buck. Ideally it will be below $100. Can anyone pls give me suggestions? Thanks


----------



## earwaxxer

justie said:


> Can anyone recommend me a decent toslink cable that doesnt break the bank?
> 
> Whats important here isnt top performance but more bang for buck. Ideally it will be below $100. Can anyone pls give me suggestions? Thanks




I like the glass ones myself. I dont know why, I just sleep better knowing I have them. You can get them online. Pretty cheap. I dont think it matters, quite frankly with optical. Its like ethernet - packets. I havent noticed a difference in sound. Coax is another story.


----------



## Maxvla

justie said:


> Guys, im thinking of getting the gungnir in 2 weeks but i need to ask about the cables i should use for these. My desktop has toslink so ill be looking for one to connect between the gungnir and desktop. Can anyone recommend me a decent toslink cable that doesnt break the bank?
> 
> Whats important here isnt top performance but more bang for buck. Ideally it will be below $100. Can anyone pls give me suggestions? Thanks



I bought the silver jacketed one from monoprice. I think it was like $8. Works great for me.


----------



## smoothlondoner

GUNGNIR vs the Synthesis Matrix DAC?
  Does any one have an opinion on these two or have heard them side by side??
  I'd be very interested in the results.......


----------



## cizx

So, about the screeching problem: I had the issue with my Bifrost when using Audirvana and while watching a movie with mplayer.  I emailed Schiit and Jason said it was probably the cable.  I tried a couple of different USB cables, and one of them, which was certified 2.0, seemed to work better.
   
  This was last weekend.  I've since sold it and purchased a Gungnir.  I hope the issue doesn't come back; I have a decent number of 192khz files, I hate using Windows, Amarra is too pricey, and I don't even know where to begin if it's happening with mplayer as well as Audirvana.
   
  May be time for another optical transport... but I ordered Gungnir with USB, so that's not ideal.


----------



## RedBull

Any comparison to Ref 7.1, Calyx 24/192, Eximus DP1 or Invicta? 
Please forget about the price factor for a moment ok? As I don't believe more expensive is always better.


----------



## earwaxxer

Another observation with Gungnir... I have tried both toslink and coax, back and forth, and I didnt notice a difference in sound between the two. Thats interesting because with my old MSB DAC connected to the Transporter, there is clearly a difference in sound. The toslink is cleaner and better focused than the coax. I assume that might be due to reduced jitter from the toslink. Dont know.

Next up - JPS Labs BNC digital cable compared to the above. I'm waiting for that one to arrive!


----------



## Solude

Kind of bummed with the Gungnir internal shot.  We see the USB board got a rework, now version 1.2 but the power supply saw the addition of a separate transformer but no extra anything that I can see.  DAC board are way more complex but the analog output is covered so... sigh.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Lots of extra everything. Don't be so quick to judge.


----------



## Solude

Hehe ya ya, what can I say, big fan of [size=small]μF   I agree if it mattered it probably would be uber.  Any chance at an underboard shot?  Is 6moons getting a stack to review?[/size]


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





solude said:


> Hehe ya ya, what can I say, big fan of [size=small]μF   I agree if it mattered it probably would be uber.  Any chance at an underboard shot?  Is 6moons getting a stack to review?[/size]


 
   
  The 32 aluminum organic polymer caps are much more important than big cans.
   
  And yes, 6Moons is getting a stack.


----------



## Solude

Woot!  Loves me my Srajan.  As for the caps, touche


----------



## Solude

What can I say, I like to poke Jason from time to time but compared to the very well received PWD2, the Gungnir is actually more overbuild...
   

   

   
  The PWD2 uses 1 transformer for digital and analog.  The other power supply is for the bridge.  Which brings another point.  PSA, please release a PWD3 in a small case with no bridge option


----------



## earwaxxer

jason stoddard said:


> The 32 aluminum organic polymer caps are much more important than big cans.
> 
> And yes, 6Moons is getting a stack.




Looking forward to that review. Since I already have mine, I can sort of predict how it will go. I think it will be a very positive review.


----------



## Solude

Buying my PWD2 tomorrow, but keep getting a nagging feeling to snap up a M/G stack.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





solude said:


> Buying my PWD2 tomorrow, but keep getting a nagging feeling to snap up a M/G stack.


 
   
  haha solude youre my hero, just the other day you said you were waiting to find a better price, but it seems you have no will power lol so now we get to hear your impressions of it alot sooner 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 im happy you finally decided to start dac rolling too, after you finished amp rolling, and your quick stint with headphone rolling.


----------



## Solude

Oh I got my better price, two at the lower price   Hoping to close tonight on the MkII with bridge for just north of 2K.  To be fair, when you get the right price, there really is nothing to lose.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





solude said:


> Oh I got my better price, two at the lower price   Hoping to close tonight on the MkII with bridge for just north of 2K.  To be fair, when you get the right price, there really is nothing to lose.


 
   
  Oh very nice. You should have started a DAC comparison thread, i would love to see what you have to say about the PWD, but i dont see any reason to follow that thread 
   
  Have you ever though about trading dacs with people? that way you could both hear something new, though i guess you wouldnt have them both with you then to compare directly...


----------



## Solude

Yep and that's the clincher.  I am not a fan of audio memory.  Side by side, as little variables as possible or its a crap shoot.  If I had to do it again, I'd bring in sources and amps at the same time since synergy is so important.


----------



## earwaxxer

solude said:


> Buying my PWD2 tomorrow, but keep getting a nagging feeling to snap up a M/G stack.




Sounds like you got your price! - Its going to be great piece of kit. More versatile than the Gungnir.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





solude said:


> Yep and that's the clincher.  I am not a fan of audio memory.  Side by side, as little variables as possible or its a crap shoot.  If I had to do it again, I'd bring in sources and amps at the same time since synergy is so important.


 
   
  I was thinking the same thing, you're gonna have to reaquire all those amps so you can make sure it wasnt your dac making them not sound good


----------



## Solude

Afraid so, though I might need someone to hold my wife back from smashing me


----------



## Raksasa

Well, I just bought a Bifrost from a fellow HeadFier to try. Should be here tomorrow.
   
  But all the consistent praise for the Gung, inc. in SE mode and as an U/G over Bifrost, got me salivating.
  So I checked if it was in stock at one of Schiit's Ozzie dealers (_Addicted to Audio_). It was. So I grabbed one.
  Ordered yesterday, arrived today. Big mofo, tho'.
   

   
  Already hooked up to Asgard, driving Mad Dogs, whilst running in. Just using a std. USB cable from Ivy Bridge PC.
   
  So tomorrow I will have 4 DACs !!! Doh !!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  After burn-in, main shootout will be the Gung vs StageDAC.
   
  Will also compare BF vs the Gung & StageDAC. DACMagic is out of the running, as I much prefer the StageDAC.
  Also will compare thru BH Crack/Speedball & DT880s (600 ohm Manufaktur). Winner will drive my SR-507/Woo GES I'm waiting for.
   
  Now, where are those buy/sell rulez ???  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  2 DACs are gunna have to go  
   
  Cheers,
   
  Raksy


----------



## Argo Duck

I am looking forward to this comparison!
  Quote: 





raksasa said:


> *After burn-in, main shootout will be the Gung vs StageDAC.*


----------



## Raksasa

Quote: 





> *Originally Posted by AiDee /img/forum/go_quote.gif*
> 
> _*I am looking forward to this comparison!*_


 
   
  Thanks AiDee. I enjoyed reading your Minimax / Bifrost / StageDAC comparo.
   
  I don't have an SPL meter. Can anyone suggest a reasonable one w/o breaking the bank ?
  Or else my old codger ears will have to do !! Does that invalidate my findings ??  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I read in another thread where someone preferred a TC Konnekt 6 to the StageDAC !!!
  Well, guess what, I have one of those too. It's out on loan to a guitarist friend to check as a recording interface.
  Suppose I better include it.
   
  So that makes it 4 DACs and an A/D/A I have.  
   
  Geez, I'll be irritable if a $300 AUD F/wire interface sounds better than my DACs !!!      
   
   
  Cheers,
   
  Raksy


----------



## Argo Duck

Cheers Raksy.
   
  An SPL meter is essential IMO. Mine was cheap - a Digitech QM-1589. Definitely not laboratory grade - e.g. the 80dBA I obtained with pink noise might really have been 78 or 82 - but readings remained consistent within each listening session. Of course, take care to measure in the same way each time, however you do it.


----------



## Raksasa

Quote: 





> *Originally Posted by AiDee /img/forum/go_quote.gif*
> 
> _*Cheers Raksy.*_
> 
> _*An SPL meter is essential IMO. . . *_


 
   
  Thanks, I'll see what's available in Oz.
   
  I think an ear wax clean out should be done as well . . . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  R


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





raksasa said:


> So tomorrow I will have 4 DACs !!! Doh !!


 
   
  Hey its mini me   The SPL thing is very important.  And yes, any metre will do.  Think my RadioShack one ran $20.  And it gets a ton of use around here


----------



## Raksasa

Quote: 





> *Originally Posted by Solude /img/forum/go_quote.gif*
> 
> _*Hey its mini me   .  .  . *_


 
   
  Hahahahaaaa .  .  . been down the same path ???
  The DAC setup in your sig is another I'd be interested in hearing (_AP2 -> Octave_).
   
  There's just way TOO many frackin' DACs these days !!!!  I wanna hear them all  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  Maybe I need to setup Dacaholics Anon . . . .  hmmm, I think I could drum up some membership here at HF.
   
  The first standalone DAC I ever remember hearing directly was a friend's Theta waaaaayyyy back in the day (_late 80s or early 90s??_). DS Pre ??? Into a Classe Audio amp. Can't believe I just bought a DAC designed by the same guy in 2012. Hey Mike, we must BOTH be gettin' old . . . hope you've cleaned the wax out  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  The first integrated DAC I heard was the original Sony CD player in 83 (?), I think one of the first ones in a retail shop in OZ.
  Kept me listening to LPs for the next decade or 2 . . .  
   
  Cheers,
   
  Raksadacoholic


----------



## Blurpapa

raksasa said:


> Thanks AiDee. I enjoyed reading your Minimax / Bifrost / StageDAC comparo.




That was a real good review. It didn't seem so long ago too. But we wouldn't have guessed, judging by the amount of new DACs which have been launched since the BiFrost. 

AiDee. Will you get some new gear and treat us to more quality reading already?!  Please?


----------



## Roscoeiii

If you have a smart phone (iPhone or Android) you can download an SPL meter app.


----------



## Argo Duck

Cheers John 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But there's my sanity to think of. And wife-factor. She thinks I already spend too much time/money on all this.
   
  A Bifrost - Gungnir - statement comparison is a tempting thought though...
  Quote: 





blurpapa said:


> Will you get some new gear and treat us to more quality reading already?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Jmstrmbn

Quote: 





roscoeiii said:


> If you have a smart phone (iPhone or Android) you can download an SPL meter app.


 
  Has anyone verified the accuracy of these apps?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jmstrmbn said:


> Has anyone verified the accuracy of these apps?


 
  Well, ya know, Cardas and other's alike verify it for us. No worry.


----------



## Loevhagen

OK. Finally Gungnir in the house and hooked to Mjolnir and HE-6. I wouldn't say it's lean at all.


----------



## Argo Duck

Well, here's a quick comparison of three apps (iPhone 4S) with pink noise generated into T1 phones.
   
  These are averaged figures taken over at least 30 seconds:
   
  TestProVol - 80.4dBA
  dB Meter Pro - 84-85 dBA
  SPLnFFT - 90.1 dBA
   
  Finally, the 'gold standard', my cheap Digitech SPL meter showed 74.1-74.5 dBA both pre- and post- the above readings.
   
*So no - these apps are not 'accurate'.*
   
  That said, all three claim they can be calibrated. Even lab-grade equipment needs constant re-calibration, as my wife (who works with uber-expensive medical equipment) reminded me the other day.
   
  The point is not to trust any of these apps - nor a cheap, uncalibrated SPL meter like mine - as reporting _accurate_ SPL levels.
   
  For our purposes (listening tests in a review/comparison setting), we don't need to know whether the levels are accurate, only that given the same input signal to the same headphone measured in the same position with the 'same' ambient noise level, the reading will be "the same" (are repeatable) within some reasonable tolerance.
   
  My Digitech achieves this. Do these? What I plan to do is adjust these apps to match the Digitech, and check how 'stable' they are over a day or two. I will report back.


----------



## .Sup

is the analog stage discrete? I can't tell from that image.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





.sup said:


> is the analog stage discrete? I can't tell from that image.


 
  Schiit has never used opamps in the signal path, as evident from their site
   
*[size=12.727272033691406px]Simple, Discrete Circuit Topologies[/size]*[size=12.727272033691406px][/size]
 [size=12.727272033691406px]Everything we make uses simple, discrete design on the analog side, and innovative bitperfect management systems on the digital side to avoid asynchronous ample rate conversion. We use Class A designs where practical and single gain stages when possible. We typically don’t use op-amps, integrated or discrete (well, except as DC servos.)[/size]


----------



## .Sup

souprknowva said:


> Schiit has never used opamps in the signal path, as evident from their site
> 
> *[size=12.727272033691406px]Simple, Discrete Circuit Topologies[/size]*
> [size=12.727272033691406px][/size]
> ...



okay thanks, I did read that but a while ago and forgot. I wasn't asking about opamps though, when I saw the above image all the SMD components got me worried, I have bad experience with SMD components sound wise. Cold and analytical comes to mind


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





.sup said:


> okay thanks, I did read that but a while ago and forgot. I wasn't asking about opamps though, when I saw the above image all the SMD components got me worried, I have bad experience with SMD components sound wise. Cold and analytical comes to mind


 
   
  I think you can understand my confusion, you specifically asked whether it was discrete, using SMD parts doesnt stop it from being discrete. There are through hole discrete and IC parts, as well as SMD discrete and IC parts.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





.sup said:


> okay thanks, I did read that but a while ago and forgot. I wasn't asking about opamps though, when I saw the above image all the SMD components got me worried, I have bad experience with SMD components sound wise. Cold and analytical comes to mind


 
   
  There are good and bad ways to do SMD. Bottom line: it can be much better for some things, especially if you're using thin-film resistors (most surface-mount is thick-film.) Actually, surface mount is great for cascoding, because it eliminates a lot of the stray inductance--and surface-mount offers some really cool parts that aren't available in through-hole form. 
   
  It's like everything else. You can have good implementations and bad implementations. It's just a matter of learning what works best for both. We're going to be doing a lot more surface-mount in the future, based on what we're learning.


----------



## .Sup

Okay thanks for replies Soup and Jason. Sorry for the confusing questions, admittedly I don't know much about audio designs. I was actually worried an SMD based unit would sound "thin" compared to a non SMD unit. But what you said about implementation sounds reasonable Jason.


----------



## mackat

It just did it again, but I've learned to live with it. I think it sounds great, and again, If you can overcome the glitch on USB that happens every few days, it's very worth it.


----------



## earwaxxer

One, or two other observations re. said Gungnir. I'm finding myself listening to my system more now, and also with my speakers in other positions beside 'near-field' (I usually position them in a 5-6ft equilateral triangle. I didnt like the reflections in my large living space when the speakers are 15ft away or so up against the entertainment area. I'm listening to them now, back against the wall. Very good, very relaxing. 

The dipolar maggies tend to need some space away from the wall to do their thing. What I identified is that my maggies seem to have 'grown'. Still directional of course, but they play bigger and better with my quite large room. Integration with sub is better as well due to better bass response.


----------



## Jono338

I *finally* got my Gungnir in action. It kept me up till after midnight last night with "oh, I want to hear what that will sound like" over and over. Bliss. It's doing wonderful things to my music collection. But it's doing terrible things to my speakers (yeah, I'm not a head-fi-er): they keep disappearing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Just an FYI, I'm using the Logitech Touch with the Enhanced Digital Output plugin. Coax works with everything. Yeah! TOSLink works but only upto 96/24 files: 192/24 files look like they're playing but all you get is slience. USB doesn't work at all - it plays, but I now know what music sounds like in hell.
   
  J


----------



## Raksasa

Quote: 





> *Originally Posted by mackat /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It just did it again, but I've learned to live with it. I think it sounds great, and again, If you can overcome the glitch on USB that happens every few days, it's very worth it.*


 
   
  Hi Mackat,
   
  RE USB glitch - what source ? Mac ?
   
  I haven't heard any glitch over USB on a Windows 7 64 machine (yet).
   
  Cheers,
   
  R


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





raksasa said:


> Hi Mackat,
> 
> RE USB glitch - what source ? Mac ?
> 
> ...


 
  The glitch is a problem with Macs and it's not only Schiit DAC's. I don't believe there's a conclusive answer to what causes the problem.


----------



## Raksasa

Quote: 





> *Originally Posted by paradoxper /img/forum/go_quote.gif*
> 
> _*The glitch is a problem with Macs and it's not only Schiit DAC's. I don't believe there's a conclusive answer to what causes the problem.*_


 
   
  I thought so, but wanted to confirm as source wasn't stated.
  Good new for me, as no Apple PC / laptop products at my place.
   
  Also, can anyone recommend a Toslink cable, w/o spending megabucks ??
  Want to try it out and see if there is any diff. to USB.
   
  Cheers,
   
  R


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





raksasa said:


> I thought so, but wanted to confirm as source wasn't stated.
> Good new for me, as no Apple PC / laptop products at my place.
> 
> Also, can anyone recommend a Toslink cable, w/o spending megabucks ??
> ...


 
  Since the problem doesn't seem rampant with other DAC's and Macs, it'd be interesting to know what do the Schiit DAC's and 
  the other's that have the same problem have in common.
   
  The Silfflex toslinks are quite popular and don't break the bank. Lifatec


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Regarding the USB glitch:
   
  We're looking into what's causing it, but we have no conclusive answers yet. Despite the forum chatter, it is an extremely rare phenomenon--about 30 confirmed instances out of 2600 USB boards shipped to date. Let us know what's going on via email, and it will help us find the answer.
   
  Here's what we know:
   
  1. Its not related to Macs or PCs in any case--it doesn't matter what computer you're running it with.
  2. It is usually associated with audiophile USB cables, or long USB cables. Try a short, non-audiophile, true USB 2.0 rated cable, preferably with ferrites, and let us know how that does. It solves the problem in about 80% of cases, as far as we can tell.
  3. Believe it or not, it may be solved simply by changing USB ports. We don't know why, but it does work in some cases.
  4. In almost all cases, replacing the USB board solves it. In a couple, it doesn't. That's why we're looking into it now.
   
  We'll let you know more as we know more--in the meantime, email us and let us know what's going on with your system.
   
  All the best,
  Jason


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> 3. Believe it or not, it may be solved simply by changing USB ports. We don't know why, but it does work in some cases.


 
  Not surprising since all devices on a USB hub share the bandwidth and power.  Big problem is though most stacks on the back of the PC are separate hubs, the separate controller is usually directed to the case's front USB ports.  If nothing else, keep the DAC on a separate stack on the back of the PC.


----------



## mackat

jason stoddard said:


> Regarding the USB glitch:
> 
> We're looking into what's causing it, but we have no conclusive answers yet. Despite the forum chatter, it is an extremely rare phenomenon--about 30 confirmed instances out of 2600 USB boards shipped to date. Let us know what's going on via email, and it will help us find the answer.
> 
> ...




Great news Jason!

For the record, I use a mac for you people who want to know. A brand new iMac (month and a few days old) that I'll probably be begging Apple to exchange come the rumoured new iMac on the 23rd or 24th. 'Tis a very nice computer though!


----------



## Yuceka




----------



## Maxvla

raksasa said:


> Also, can anyone recommend a Toslink cable, w/o spending megabucks ??
> Want to try it out and see if there is any diff. to USB.
> 
> Cheers,
> ...



http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022904&p_id=2764&seq=1&format=2

What I use.


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





raksasa said:


> Also, can anyone recommend a Toslink cable, w/o spending megabucks ??
> Want to try it out and see if there is any diff. to USB.


 
   
  Also http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/index.htm


----------



## Raksasa

Thanks for all the toslink recommendations  .
   
  Might try the Silflex, as another member mentioned it to me as well.
   
*FYI - re USB:*
  I recently built a new PC. I use USB DACs (_one at a time_) on the Intel USB 2.0 chipset of an Asrock Z77 Extreme6 mobo (_rear port_). Mouse goes into USB 3.0 rear, keyboard into PS/2, all other USB devices get plugged into front USB 3.0.
  So hopefully DAC is only thing on it's stack. Don't know about voltage feeds (_ie shared or separate_).
   
  I also use a Seasonic 560w PSU (_gold_) that tests very well for DC.
   
  Took delivery today of a Furutech Formula 2 USB cable. Only purchased it coz it _seems_ really well made and if anyone asks what I'm using I can tell them (_as opposed to nameless thing I had lying around_). No idea if different USB cables make a difference or not to sound. And I'm too lazy to do A/Bs with USB cables. Gotta enough DACs to check out !!
   
  Cheers,
   
  R
   
*PS* - thanks to Jason for setting things straight. If I ever have any probs I'll email Schiit. None so far.


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Also http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/index.htm


 
   
  Loves me my BlueJeans, actually dumping my Silways for them but no, just no.  Glass or use coax.


----------



## jackiedh

Jason don't know if it correlates but I use my IPAD 2 thru a Camera Connection Kit USB to the GUNGIR/MJOLNIR combo>LCD 2Rev2 and I have had not one single problem----
   
  Also it sounds pretty darn good to me!!
   
  Jack in Disco Bay


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





jackiedh said:


> Jason don't know if it correlates but I use my IPAD 2 thru a Camera Connection Kit USB to the GUNGIR/MJOLNIR combo>LCD 2Rev2 and I have had not one single problem----
> 
> Also it sounds pretty darn good to me!!
> 
> Jack in Disco Bay


 
   
  Wait, what?
   
  It works with a CCK? We've never actually had it working that way. I wonder if the CCK we used to test was dead. We never tried it for anything else, just bought it for USB testing.
   
  Now, I definitely feel like an idiot, because I've been telling everyone it doesn't work with a CCK. I'll pick up another today and try it out.


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Regarding the USB glitch:
> 
> We're looking into what's causing it, but we have no conclusive answers yet. Despite the forum chatter, it is an extremely rare phenomenon--about 30 confirmed instances out of *2600 USB* boards shipped to date. Let us know what's going on via email, and it will help us find the answer.


 
   
  2600 USB Gungnir shipped to date? I would dare to assume that about 60-70% of your Gungnirs have USB (cos some people don't need it), that means you sold like 3500-4000 Gungnirs in like 2 months. These figures are scarcely believable. Impressive job Schiit!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Regarding the Gungnir, despite being interested for a while, Im actually gonna wait for the reference one.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> 2600 USB Gungnir shipped to date? I would dare to assume that about 60-70% of your Gungnirs have USB (cos some people don't need it), that means you sold like 3500-4000 Gungnirs in like 2 months. These figures are scarcely believable. Impressive job Schiit!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Since Bifrost and Gungnir use the same USB board he's probably referring to 2600 USB boards between them.


----------



## earwaxxer

Still.... Thats impressive customer service! I got mine without delay. That means a lot these days, when it usually takes a month to get a component from a small growing company.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> Since Bifrost and Gungnir use the same USB board he's probably referring to 2600 USB boards between them.


 
   
  Yep, it's a shared board.


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> Since Bifrost and Gungnir use the same USB board he's probably referring to 2600 USB boards between them.


 
   
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Yep, it's a shared board.


 
   
  Oh... this i didnt know, and yea 4000 Gungnirs sounded pretty wild. But still, Schiit is doing very well I believe (business wise).


----------



## Blurpapa

argo duck said:


> And wife-factor. She thinks I already spend too much time/money on all this
> 
> A Bifrost - Gungnir - statement comparison is a tempting thought though...




I tell my wife that guys will not be guys without our "serious" hobbies  
Yes, that statement DAC is def worth a serious look into when it arrives.


----------



## kLevkoff

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> It works with a CCK? We've never actually had it working that way. I wonder if the CCK we used to test was dead. We never tried it for anything else, just bought it for USB testing.
> 
> Now, I definitely feel like an idiot, because I've been telling everyone it doesn't work with a CCK. I'll pick up another today and try it out.


 

 I'm not a Mac person, but supposedly USB audio from the iPad *used* to work through the CCK then, at some point several months ago, it stopped. Rumors had it that Apple disabled the functionality at some particular O/S update revision. (Apple really wants everything that can receive digital input from an Apple product to need an Apple license chip in it; to them, being able to use a $30 CCK to connect digital audio to another DAC would seem to be a "workaround" to get around their requirement - so it makes sense that they would kill it.) It might now only work with certain revisions of the Apple O/S, or even with only some older iPads.
   
  I've also heard various claims about iPads working with the iPure i20 iPod dock (which is really intended for an iPod and not an iPad). Some folks have claimed to have gotten it to work with the iPad even though it officially isn't supposed to.
   
  On another subject, I've heard of several cases of where "audiophile" USB cables failed to work for ordinary things (like firmware updates) and replacing them with a regular cable solved the problem. Regular USB cables are required to be able to handle very high frequency signals very cleanly, and I'd bet that most of the small-scale audiophile "tweak" cable makers have neither the engineering ability to "design" cables that meet the real spec, nor the equipment to test whether it does or not. Computer data is not someplace where you want to rely on "I like the way it sounds" to prove your design or production standards.
   
  Also, USB Audio Class 2 has the distinction of requiring that you install drivers on the PC - and this brings up the possibility of those drivers conflicting with other drivers or Windows internals. Windows 7 seems to have trouble delivering a clean data stream with some drivers (especially in WASAPI mode), even when the CPU utilization is quite low. If you have it available, Windows XP actually seems a bit more solid for USB audio with many applications. Of course, Macs have the UAC2 drivers built in, but since AUC2 and asynchronous operation require quite a bit of code residing in the USB interface on the receiver, it's not unreasonable to suspect that certain DACs will work better with certain sources than others.)
   
   
  Keith


----------



## Loevhagen

Enjoying the Schiit big time.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Enjoying the Schiit big time.


 
  And winner of best photography again..goes to...
   
  Stunning as always. Thanks.


----------



## Blurpapa

paradoxper said:


> Stunning




Hi Paradoxper! Just an update. I gave up the idea of placing the Mjolnir vertically and built interconnects long enough to have the amp live under my bed (no worries its a high bed frame so plenty of ventilation there). So while my fingers can roam to the volume knob quite easily, this arrangement doesn't allow me to see my amp 

In fact, I didn't notice the screws around the XLR outputs until I saw Loevhagen's pics!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





blurpapa said:


> Hi Paradoxper! Just an update. I gave up the idea of placing the Mjolnir vertically and built interconnects long enough to have the amp live under my bed (no worries its a high bed frame so plenty of ventilation there). So while my fingers can roam to the volume knob quite easily, this arrangement doesn't allow me to see my amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey Blurpapa,
   
  Hahah. You probably have the most obscure setup around these parts.
  Post up some photos!


----------



## Loevhagen

Thanks, paradoxper. 
   
  Mjolnir under the bed? Huh. Hm. It will be soaked in dust in 2 weeks...due to the heat leading to under pressure and sucking the dust on the floor into tha chassis. No Schiit.


----------



## Blurpapa

loevhagen said:


> Mjolnir under the bed? Huh. Hm. It will be soaked in dust in 2 weeks...due to the heat leading to under pressure and sucking the dust on the floor into tha chassis. No Schiit.




Ha yes there was that worry but I thought I'll give it a shot and check in a few weeks. My room gets a daily vacuum so I have my fingers crossed.


----------



## jackiedh

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> It works with a CCK? We've never actually had it working that way. I wonder if the CCK we used to test was dead. We never tried it for anything else, just bought it for USB testing.
> 
> Now, I definitely feel like an idiot, because I've been telling everyone it doesn't work with a CCK. I'll pick up another today and try it out.


 

 Jason yes it definitely works-no problems-with both the last IOS and the newest version IOS recently released--
   
  The CCK has to be inserted just right though and it can be a little finicky--but if you are in the Music App and you see the Volume control go to MAX setting it's connected correctly--just don't jiggle it around especially with the IPAD 2/3 the Case & the Dock connector is angled slightly and the fit is not as good as the IPAD 1 which was square--
   
  By the way I did have a CCK that did have issues connecting consistently-But a new one fixed the problems--
   
  It has been reported of some issues with some of Apple's CCK's
   
  Also it can be finicky about the USB cable-some I had did not work well at all-Using the Audioquest Forest about $30 now no problems whatsoever....
   
  I also have the PURE I20 and it works perfectly with the IPAD connected directly regardless of IOS version--
   
  Actually the PURE is really cool as I use it to pull the Digital Signal out of my I-Devices both Toslink & Coax to the GUNGIR--
   
  Sounds phenomenal......
   
  Jason any more questions Please feel free to call me I am sure you have my # --If not Email I know you have that
   
  Jack


----------



## Blurpapa

paradoxper said:


> Hey Blurpapa,
> 
> Hahah. You probably have the most obscure setup around these parts.
> Post up some photos!




Roger that! Will do so when I have some light in the room. It's 3am here!


----------



## earwaxxer

blurpapa said:


> I tell my wife that guys will not be guys without our "serious" hobbies




Yep the 'WAF' is a tricky formula to master! Its good to bone up on your calculus from time to time. 

I found some good 'techniques' to use when 'preparing' her for an upcoming purchase. 1. Combine the purchase with a holiday (ex. Birthday, Christmas, hanukkah, etc - sometimes you have to make one up). 2. Whatever you do, dont reveal the price until asked! Let her think about it. She will probably expect a higher price than it costs - if she didnt, than you have some additional work ahead of you!


----------



## Argo Duck

^ LOL. Seriously good advice. Obviously you have had lots of practise.
   
  I'm sure she has her tricks too


----------



## .Sup

jackiedh said:


> Jason yes it definitely works-no problems-with both the last IOS and the newest version IOS recently released--
> 
> The CCK has to be inserted just right though and it can be a little finicky--but if you are in the Music App and you see the Volume control go to MAX setting it's connected correctly--just don't jiggle it around especially with the IPAD 2/3 the Case & the Dock connector is angled slightly and the fit is not as good as the IPAD 1 which was square--
> 
> ...




Hey jackie is there a way to charge the ipad while connected to CCK? Like a connector with dual 30 pin output or something?

Regarding the ipad and CCK- it has always worked, it works with both of my DACs the Audio GD Ref5 and Odac. The ipad also works with my Onkyo ND-S1 dock. ipad gen3, latest iOS


----------



## Roscoeiii

Well, I caved. Needed multiple inputs and so good-bye to my Tranquility DAC. Will report back as soon as it arrives. Sadly, Tranquility will be heading to its new home before the Gungnir arrives.


----------



## Loevhagen

Preliminary conclusion: The Violectric V800 beats the Gungnir marginally on SQ. E.g. transparancy, bass texture and vocal cleanness. The difference is not very significant - but it's there. Adding the V800's flexibility (if you want it), that adds another pluss in the right column. I keep both, though. For the sake of good order, the Gungnir is very, very good. 
   
  As for the NAD M51: The V800 is closer to the NAD than the Gungnir.
   
  Disclaimer: No volume matching. No academic approach. Just subjective - for now.


----------



## tokendog

My Schiit arrived today and it is beautiful as I expected.  Unfortunately, my PYST cables were not in the box but no big deal.  I'm sure it will follow shortly.  Jason and Alex are amazing to deal with.  I'm letting it burn in with my Mjolnir at the moment.  So far, even without burn-in, I'm impressed.  It sounds better to my ears than the Titanium HD soundcard I've been using thus far.  Nice upgrade - if it improves with burn-in, which I suspect it will, then consider me highly satisfied.  
   
  Now I just need my Q-cable to come in for my LCD-2.2 and I'll be in my audio nirvana.


----------



## earwaxxer

loevhagen said:


> Preliminary conclusion: The Violectric V800 beats the Gungnir marginally on SQ. E.g. transparancy, bass texture and vocal cleanness. The difference is not very significant - but it's there. Adding the V800's flexibility (if you want it), that adds another pluss in the right column. I keep both, though. For the sake of good order, the Gungnir is very, very good.
> 
> As for the NAD M51: The V800 is closer to the NAD than the Gungnir.
> 
> Disclaimer: No volume matching. No academic approach. Just subjective - for now.




Interesting - yet another company I have never come across! Thats always fun. Duly bookmarked. 

I noticed the V800 doesnt have a BNC digital in. Did you notice any difference between the toslink and coax digital inputs? How about upsampling in the V88? What do you prefer?

thanks - Eric


----------



## Loevhagen

I use the 1x. The "best" option sounds a bit "darker". OK for some headphones. 
   
  If you haven't browsed Violectric - I would encourage you to do so.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Preliminary conclusion: The Violectric V800 beats the Gungnir marginally on SQ. E.g. transparancy, bass texture and vocal cleanness. The difference is not very significant - but it's there. Adding the V800's flexibility (if you want it), that adds another pluss in the right column. I keep both, though. For the sake of good order, the Gungnir is very, very good.
> 
> As for the NAD M51: The V800 is closer to the NAD than the Gungnir.
> 
> Disclaimer: No volume matching. No academic approach. Just subjective - for now.


 
   
   
  Hmm so you think the V800 is better than the Gungnir, are you able to say whether the Mjolnir or the V200 is better? or which stack do you think is better?


----------



## jackiedh

Quote: 





.sup said:


> Hey jackie is there a way to charge the ipad while connected to CCK? Like a connector with dual 30 pin output or something?
> Regarding the ipad and CCK- it has always worked, it works with both of my DACs the Audio GD Ref5 and Odac. The ipad also works with my Onkyo ND-S1 dock. ipad gen3, latest iOS


 

 Unfortunately no--I have tried many other CCK alternatives and found none that would charge at the same time as playing..
   
  Jack


----------



## Loevhagen

I would choose the Mjolnr to the LCD-3 and the V200 to the LCD-2, but:
   
  - If I were to choose one amp to all my headphones; I would have chosen the Mjolnir
  - If I would chose one amp to the LCD-2; I would have chosen the V200
   
  Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> Hmm so you think the V800 is better than the Gungnir, are you able to say whether the Mjolnir or the V200 is better? or which stack do you think is better?


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Preliminary conclusion: The Violectric V800 beats the Gungnir marginally on SQ. E.g. transparancy, bass texture and vocal cleanness. The difference is not very significant - but it's there. Adding the V800's flexibility (if you want it), that adds another pluss in the right column. I keep both, though. For the sake of good order, the Gungnir is very, very good.
> 
> As for the NAD M51: The V800 is closer to the NAD than the Gungnir.
> 
> Disclaimer: No volume matching. No academic approach. Just subjective - for now.


 
   
  It'll be interesting if you revisit these impressions after some time. Like my Bifrosts, the Gungnir smoothed out after about 50 hours. Unlike the Bifrost though, the Gungnir seemed to fluctuate around the 200 hour mark. There were times at this stage when the initially impressive low end went MIA and the high mid, treble range became a bit rough around the edges. The sound became thinner, accentuated further by the HD800. It seems to have stabilised now with 300+ hours, with the sub bass returning and the hardness in the higher frequencies smoothening out beyond where it was at that 50 hour mark.
   
  These are obviously highly subjective findings, with various factors that could have affected sound at different points. There were no strict controls, just noted shifts in my reaction to what was heard over a 3 week period. YMMV and all that jazz.


----------



## Loevhagen

Jazz is cool - and I might alter my views (cf. preliminary as disclaimer). I really hope I do. Some of the things you mention makes sence - and that is partly reason for my preliminary impressions. 
   
  And, for the sake of good order - I just want to underpin that the Gungnir is a good DAC.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> I would choose the Mjolnr to the LCD-3 and the V200 to the LCD-2, but:
> 
> - If I were to choose one amp to all my headphones; I would have chosen the Mjolnir
> - If I would chose one amp to the LCD-2; I would have chosen the V200


 
  Thanks for the info. its reassuring, makes me think that my Anedio D2 going into a Mjolnir, into a LCD-3 will be pretty spectacular


----------



## justie

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Jazz is cool - and I might alter my views (cf. preliminary as disclaimer). I really hope I do. Some of the things you mention makes sence - and that is partly reason for my preliminary impressions.
> 
> And, for the sake of good order - I just want to underpin that the Gungnir is a good DAC.


 
  This would be interesting and hopefully we get to see a full review some time. I can get both DACS locally at approximately the same price ($150 difference) so it would be interesting to see how they compare


----------



## grokit

So I've been burning in the USB port separately for a few days, and am now listening to it. When I get a better RCA coax cable I will compare again to the XMOS converter (V192) going in to coax/bnc (I have a Bluejeans RCA/BNC cable). The BJ cable is too sturdy for the V192's wimpy RCA port, I've said it before but dangit I wish the Gungnir had a AES/EBU input. For a balanced DAC, this is starting to seem like a huge omission to me. Who else makes a good RCA to BNC digital coax cable besides BJC?


----------



## Solude

I went with 1695A for that reason, little more money but flexible.  On the AES thing, its for long runs not a better run.  SPDIF is a single ended signal, using a twisted, 3 wire config instead of a coax isn't going to give good results.  Someone has a good writeup on it, can't find it right now though.


----------



## grokit

It's not what I would call a long run (12') so the cable type doesn't matter so much, but AES/EBU is the better output on the V192 according to MF ("balanced digital output", whatever that means), and it's by far a better physical connection to the V192.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> On the AES thing, its for long runs not a better run.


 
   
   
  If you have longer runs - it will be better.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Grokit, 

Can you remind me whether you got the USB option? And were you able to compare toslink and coax direct vs via v192?


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





preproman said:


> If you have longer runs - it will be better.


 
   
  True but it needs to be long, not shelf one to shelf two   Also consider that AES standard call for higher voltage, so the rise times will be slower, meaning less open eye pattern.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





solude said:


> True but it needs to be long, not shelf one to shelf two   Also consider that AES standard call for higher voltage, so the rise times will be slower, meaning less open eye pattern.


 
   
  Right.  Now how long is the question.  When does Coax and USB start to fad or distort or whatever happens?


----------



## Solude

5 metres, 16 feet


----------



## 333jeffery

One thing the Gungnir does really well is vocals. They sound a good bit better than on the Bifrost. Also, drums sound a good bit more forward on it, too.


----------



## Argo Duck

Hi 333jeffery - could you explain? Vocals sound better because... (e.g. more cohesive? better microdynamics? tone/texture? etc)
   
  TIA


----------



## earwaxxer

argo duck said:


> Hi 333jeffery - could you explain? Vocals sound better because... (e.g. more cohesive? better microdynamics? tone/texture? etc)
> 
> TIA




I could probably chime in on that one... If I could put my finger on it, I would say that vocals are 'better' in the sense that they are more 'accurate'. 

I feel the sound is more accurate in two ways. 1. Accurate transient peaks and troughs, in terms of natural gain and decline. That was one of the first things I noticed with the Gungnir. I would venture to guess that vinyl does this very well, in that the signal is not quantized, but infinite in volume changes. 2. Good frequency separation ie. 'definition'. Less sloppiness in terms of accurate retrieval/reproduction of frequency data.

Exactly in line with what one would expect from significant and meaningful advancement in DAC technology and techniques. I believe the Gungnir and other budget DACs like it are the wave of the future. Very good digital techniques for the masses! Forget EMM etc. and their $30K DAC'.


----------



## grokit

roscoeiii said:


> Grokit,
> 
> Can you remind me whether you got the USB option? And were you able to compare toslink and coax direct vs via v192?




Yes I have the USB option. I liked the optical (Bravo) and coax (V192/Bravo) connections better but have been re-visiting the USB to see if it can catch up with some burning in. I will re-visit the V192 coax again soon, as the Bravo is being re-located to iPad land. Between the Bravo and the V192 they sound very similar via coax but the AES/EBU output of the V192 sounds superior to me, and of course it has 192k capability.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yes I have the USB option. I liked the optical (Bravo) and coax (V192/Bravo) connections better but have been re-visiting the USB to see if it can catch up with some burning in. I will re-visit the V192 coax again soon, as the Bravo is being re-located to iPad land. Between the Bravo and the V192 they sound very similar via coax but the AES/EBU output of the V192 sounds superior to me, and of course it has 192k capability.


 

 Were you able to use some sort of adaptor for AES/EBU into the Gungnir, or was this into a different DAC?
   
  And in general are the 24/96 vs 24/192 capabilities of toslink usually source or DAC related?


----------



## 333jeffery

AiDee, it's hard to put into words, but I'll try. Vocals on the Gungnir have a richer, more full-bodied sound than they do on the Bifrost. I don't know the technical terms for this, just the differences I've heard with the two DACs so far.


----------



## grokit

roscoeiii said:


> grokit said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I have the USB option. I liked the optical (Bravo) and coax (V192/Bravo) connections better but have been re-visiting the USB to see if it can catch up with some burning in. I will re-visit the V192 coax again soon, as the Bravo is being re-located to iPad land. Between the Bravo and the V192 they sound very similar via coax but the AES/EBU output of the V192 sounds superior to me, and of course it has 192k capability.
> ...




It was with my Matrix Mini-i. Like the Gungnir it's a superb value but not quite in the same class. At some point I will have to re-visit it in this system for comparison.

I've been looking at some 110 to 75 ohm, AES/EBU to BNC adapters, but I'll probably just stick with coax. I sure wish I could trade the 2nd set of SE outputs for an AES-EBU input!


----------



## Roscoeiii

Oh, I am fine with the 2 SE and a pair of XLR outputs. That takes care of my main stereo, my Little Dot VI & HE5LE balanced bedroom rig and a SE headphone amp in the living room. Awesome.


----------



## RedBull

333jeffery said:


> AiDee, it's hard to put into words, but I'll try. Vocals on the Gungnir have a richer, more full-bodied sound than they do on the Bifrost. I don't know the technical terms for this, just the differences I've heard with the two DACs so far.




You mean more forward, intimate and more weight to the vocal?


----------



## SourceGuy

I love this dac and almost prefer it to my turntable setup.


----------



## rdsu

This seems to be a fantastic upgradable DAC for a great price! It will be a huge upgrade to my current Leema Pulse III DAC (a bit better than first DACMagic)...
   
  My target DAC was Leema Elements DAC, but for now I'm wait to see how Schiit Statement DAC will be, and then decide between these three... 
   
  And maybe at that time the USB glitch will be fixed...


----------



## rdsu

Gungnir is a Non-Oversampling (NOS) DAC?


----------



## earwaxxer

rdsu said:


> My target DAC was Leema Elements DAC, but for now I'm wait to see how Schiit Statement DAC will be, and then decide between these three...
> 
> And maybe at that time the USB glitch will be fixed...




Interesting stuff! Yet another company this gringo has not seen before. Not sure if I could even purchase one of those in the US?


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





rdsu said:


> Gungnir is a Non-Oversampling (NOS) DAC?


 
   
  No. It's an 8x oversampling DAC (with reference to the digital filter); the SD modulator runs at 128x oversampling.
   
  That said, the AKM DACs I've heard are the closest SD DACs to NOS, but they definitely don't have a stereotypically NOS sound. I haven't heard the Gungnir though. Would love to. I'll probably pick one up if I can't decide on an Audio-GD PCM1704 DAC.


----------



## wkhanna

Quote: 





rdsu said:


> Gungnir is a Non-Oversampling (NOS) DAC?


 
  Gungnir (& Biforst) are non-Up-Sampling.
  What is the differance?
  Depends on who you ask.......


----------



## earwaxxer

Maybe Jason could clear that up - I though I understood the difference, but now that I think about it... I dont!


----------



## MoonUnit

The reason there's often confusion about this is because there's no functional difference what happens in a DAC that uses oversampling + a digital filter and the process of _synchronous_ upsampling, which may also be performed in an external box, like a computer. When most people use the term "upsampling", they're usually referring to _asynchronous_ upsampling using a sample rate converter. The Gungnir does not do that, and it's fairly clear from their website that Schiit's design philosophy is opposed to asynchronous sample rate conversion.
   
  If this is confusing, make it simpler by just asking whether a DAC incorporates a digital filter or not. NOS DACs do not use digital filters.


----------



## mackat

It's OVERsampling, but not UPsampling.


----------



## wkhanna

can someone vet this statement.......?
   
  UP-sampling adds data that is not on the source....
   
  OVER-sampling verifies the data is correct.......
   
  Thanks..


----------



## paradoxper

Both oversampling and upsampling are sample rate conversions, just different in implementation.
   
  Oversampling is done via hardware, upsampling is done in both software and hardware.
   
  Oversampling multiplies the original sample rate by integers x2, x16 for example.
  Upsampling stretches the sample rate.
   
  Correct me if I'm mistaken here.


----------



## Solude

Big difference is oversampling fills in the spaces but retains the original samples.  Upsampling throws out the entire sample and builds a new stream.


----------



## Maxvla

I'm guessing one of those is supposed to be different.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> I'm guessing one of those is supposed to be different.


 
  You being facetious?


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





solude said:


> Big difference is oversampling fills in the spaces but retains the original samples.  [Upsampling] throws out the entire sample and builds a new stream.


 
   
  Yes, this is a really nice and concise way of putting it.
   
  (Note that synchronous upsampling, such as what you get by upsampling in a player like Foobar, doesn't always retain the original samples, because depending on the ratio of input to output sample rate you need two filters in a particular ratio. But it's still the same thing in spirit. Asynchronous upsamplers rebuild the sample stream based on a continously varying series of filter coefficients.)


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





earwaxxer said:


> Interesting stuff! Yet another company this gringo has not seen before. Not sure if I could even purchase one of those in the US?


 

 It seems that you only have it in Canada:
  http://www.leema-acoustics.com/dealers/world-distributors/north-america


----------



## wkhanna

Quote: 





solude said:


> Big difference is oversampling fills in the spaces but retains the original samples.  Upsampling throws out the entire sample and builds a new stream.


 
  Thanks, Solude!
   
  From the Schiit web site:
*I heard about this fancy new upsampling stuff, where they take 16/44.1 and magically make it into 24/192. Does your DAC do that?*
 Not just no but _hell no._ None of our DACs will ever do sample rate conversion. Our goal is to perfectly reproduce the original music samples, not to throw them away and turn everything into a mystery-meat soufflé. Sample rate conversion destroys all the original samples. What goes in _isn’t_ what comes out.


----------



## rawrster

Have there been any comparisons with the Gungnir to other dacs in around the 1k price range? I know it's still fairly new but just wondering. I'm contemplating getting a balanced dac and probably a usb to spdif since I'd rather not pay for usb esp if I may try different dacs where some do not have usb.


----------



## Maxvla

I compared it to the Audiolab MDAC a page or three ago.


----------



## MoonUnit

How does the Gungnir sound on loud passages (e.g. crescendos in orchestral music, loud parts in rock)? Does it get a little tiring/harsh or does it maintain smoothness/enjoyability?


----------



## grokit

Even if I ultimately use outboard USB converters for most of my listening, I'm still glad I have the USB input for flexibility with secondary devices.

That said, if Schiit ever releases an upgraded USB module with XMOS/Streamlength or equivalent, I'm in like sin :veryevil:


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> I compared it to the Audiolab MDAC a page or three ago.


 

 Audiolab M-DAC is a great DAC, but I was expecting Gungnir to be much better...


----------



## Blurpapa

rdsu said:


> Audiolab M-DAC is a great DAC, but I was expecting Gungnir to be much better...




Same here. The Audiolab has not been reviewed by many of the familiar names on HF, and I was quite pleased that Maxvla declared the Gungir better by just a nose. Hopefully I didn't read his words wrongly.


----------



## Blurpapa

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Hey Blurpapa,
> 
> Hahah. You probably have the most obscure setup around these parts.
> Post up some photos!


 
   
   
  Paradoxper...here you go! 
  Sorry for being OT and the crumpled sheets guys.


----------



## .Sup

do you use the power strip to turn off the Mjolnir? the switch on the back is really inconvenient.


----------



## Maxvla

blurpapa said:


> Same here. The Audiolab has not been reviewed by many of the familiar names on HF, and I was quite pleased that Maxvla declared the Gungir better by just a nose. Hopefully I didn't read his words wrongly.



You are correct.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Quote: 





rdsu said:


> Audiolab M-DAC is a great DAC, but I was expecting Gungnir to be much better...


 

 Why would you expect the Gungnir to be much better than a more expensive DAC? We need to not get carried away in our searches for "giant-killers." IME, there are a number of great DACs out there. It is great when a lower price DAC is competitive with a higher priced DAC. But to expect higher priced DACs to be blown out of the water seems a bit unreasonable.
   
  And in DACs there are many flavors of sound, much like any other audio component. Rather than a "giant killer" hunt, it might be more realistic to search for the flavor that works best for your preferences in your system at up to a particular price point that works for you. And nothing beats trying a DAC in your own system for determining what flavor (and features) is preferable and synergistic with your rig. That's why the Schiit return policy is so fabulous.


----------



## tokendog

Quote: 





roscoeiii said:


> Why would you expect the Gungnir to be much better than a more expensive DAC? We need to not get carried away in our searches for "giant-killers." IME, there are a number of great DACs out there. It is great when a lower price DAC is competitive with a higher priced DAC. But to expect higher priced DACs to be blown out of the water seems a bit unreasonable.
> 
> And in DACs there are many flavors of sound, much like any other audio component. Rather than a "giant killer" hunt, it might be more realistic to search for the flavor that works best for your preferences in your system at up to a particular price point that works for you. And nothing beats trying a DAC in your own system for determining what flavor (and features) is preferable and synergistic with your rig. That's why the Schiit return policy is so fabulous.


 
   
  By my calculations, Audiolab's M-DAC is comparable in price?
   
  But your point still stands...just figured if we're basing part of the comparison off of value, it'd be good to know they are priced the same from what I can find online.


----------



## Blurpapa

[VIDEO]U[/VIDEO]





tokendog said:


> , it'd be good to know they are priced the same from what I can find online.




Really depends which country we are buying it from right? But in most places, Roscoeiii is right about the MDAC being more expensive.…but it does comes with a half decent HP amp for head-fi'ers saving up for a proper one.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Oh, and I posted without having any idea what the other DAC costs. Just a good chance to get my feelings about the search for "giant killers" off my chest. Not that they don't exist, and not that there aren't likely real bang-for-your-buck advantages to buying direct from manufacturers without a dealer mark-up. But I think it makes much more sense to be thinking about flavor at or below a certain price point that you are comfortable with.


----------



## earwaxxer

moonunit said:


> How does the Gungnir sound on loud passages (e.g. crescendos in orchestral music, loud parts in rock)? Does it get a little tiring/harsh or does it maintain smoothness/enjoyability?




I would say that, at least in my system, the Gungnir maintains its 'listen-ability' very well as the volume increases. The harshness/smearing etc. is much less. Much better than my Transporter or my 'long in the tooth' MSB. I would expect that characteristic from a current day DAC company that has rated well in those, and other important areas. To get this kind of performance for under $1K is why everyone is getting excited about it.

As others have said above, you do still, get what you pay for. The higher priced kit makers are also upping their game, with new technology, techniques, parts etc. You cant really compare a 5 yr old DAC to a 6 mo. old DAC. Better to look at them like you would a PC.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Quote: 





earwaxxer said:


> You cant really compare a 5 yr old DAC to a 6 mo. old DAC. Better to look at them like you would a PC.


 
   
  +1. THis segment of the market seems to be changing faster than most others. There are likely exceptions out there for older DACs (with certain sound characteristics that haven't seen as much improvements, or with totally kick-ass power supplies and analog output stages), but in general there seem to be lots of improvements in DACs at a faster clip than for most other components.


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





roscoeiii said:


> Why would you expect the Gungnir to be much better than a more expensive DAC? We need to not get carried away in our searches for "giant-killers." IME, there are a number of great DACs out there. It is great when a lower price DAC is competitive with a higher priced DAC. But to expect higher priced DACs to be blown out of the water seems a bit unreasonable.
> 
> And in DACs there are many flavors of sound, much like any other audio component. Rather than a "giant killer" hunt, it might be more realistic to search for the flavor that works best for your preferences in your system at up to a particular price point that works for you. And nothing beats trying a DAC in your own system for determining what flavor (and features) is preferable and synergistic with your rig. That's why the Schiit return policy is so fabulous.


 
  A more expensive DAC!?
   
  Audiolab M-DAC is a DAC and Pre-Amplifier, and without shipping it costs +/- $960. Gungnir with USB costs $849, so I think they are comparable if we only talk about the price.
   
  Another think is that a lot reviewers said Bifrost can be comparable with < $1000 DAC's, so I thought Gungnir can be comparable with more expensive DAC, like < $2000... 
   
  The problem here could be the fact that Audiolab also offer great products for less money.


----------



## Roscoeiii

$960>$850 or $750
   
  So yes, a more expensive DAC. But this post makes my more general point:
  
  Quote: 





roscoeiii said:


> Oh, and I posted without having any idea what the other DAC costs. Just a good chance to get my feelings about the search for "giant killers" off my chest. Not that they don't exist, and not that there aren't likely real bang-for-your-buck advantages to buying direct from manufacturers without a dealer mark-up. But I think it makes much more sense to be thinking about flavor at or below a certain price point that you are comfortable with.


 
   
  Synergy and differing individuals tastes should not be overlooked. Just because some prefer these DACs over more expensive DACs does not mean you will in your system. Flavors of DACs and listeners' tastes differ, and synergy between components matters (though perhaps less in the DAC realm than in the preamp/amp/headphones (or speakers), or in the vinyl source realm.


----------



## earwaxxer

wkhanna said:


> Thanks, Solude!
> 
> From the Schiit web site:
> *I heard about this fancy new upsampling stuff, where they take 16/44.1 and magically make it into 24/192. Does your DAC do that?*
> ...




Ok - so I did an audition this AM between native 16/44.1 and my 'super sauced' converted redbook, this time with the Gungnir. With the Squeezbox Server its easy. I can play one file then the other in quick succession, back and forth. Same file, native, then upsampled. 

One thing I can say for sure. The Gungnir handles 16/44.1 very well. With my Transporter DAC and the MSB DAC, there was a CLEAR lack of digititis with the 'massaged' files. Clearly 'smoother', less irritating, more 'musical', 'better' more natural highs etc. 

With the Gungnir the task of finding a 'difference' was much, much harder. When I thought I noticed one, then on the next repeat try I heard something else that canceled that previous observation. There is NO WAY I could tell them apart in a blind test. At least now, with only about 60 min. of trying. Possibly with hours of exhaustive testing I could find a difference that I could pick out. 

I'm sticking with the upsampled files only because I 'think' I liked them better. I think they were ever so slightly more 'musical'. Probably purely psychological. I even took the 16/44.1 and applied the same filters, dither, aliasing, and smart limiter to make for a more even comparison. I was hoping the 16/44.1 would sound better. There was no change. 

The take away is that I dont completely agree with the above statement bashing upsampling techniques. I agree it shouldnt be done in the DAC. That doesnt make it all 'bad'. 

Summary of my upsample 'formula' - Windows 7, Foobar with Sox SRC, output - WAV, 24bit, dither (always), resampler - quality (best), passband 95%, phase response minimum (0%), allow aliasing. Followed by advanced limiter (senses digital clipping).


----------



## Darkbeat

roscoeiii said:


> $960>$850 or $750
> 
> So yes, a more expensive DAC. But this post makes my more general point:
> 
> ...




As I posted earlier, the M-DAC is the equivalent of $500 cheaper than the Gungnir in Europe, so yeah I'd say they are comparable.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Regardless, if both are within a person's budget, listen to both if possible and decide which better suits your preferences and your system.
   
  Though of course reviews and threads like this will be helpful in narrowing down choices. Online reviews are a weak substitute for actual listening.


----------



## Jon Snow

I've been looking at the Gungnir as my next audio component. If I decide to go this way, it will be my first external dac. As I research various dacs within my budget, I find that the process becomes both tedious and confusing, but I think the Gungnir may be a good fit with my system and intended use. I plan on using the Gungnir attached to both my Logitech Touch and my TV via the RCA coax and optical inputs. However, it just dawned on me that the Gungnir has two RCA outputs. My question is, can the two RCA outs be used simultaneously? If so, this would be a bonus in that I could run an additional amp to power outdoor speakers. Am I on the right track in thinking this could be done?


----------



## grokit

earwaxxer said:


> Ok - so I did an audition this AM between native 16/44.1 and my 'super sauced' converted redbook, this time with the Gungnir. With the Squeezbox Server its easy. I can play one file then the other in quick succession, back and forth. Same file, native, then upsampled.
> 
> One thing I can say for sure. The Gungnir handles 16/44.1 very well. With my Transporter DAC and the MSB DAC, there was a CLEAR lack of digititis with the 'massaged' files. Clearly 'smoother', less irritating, more 'musical', 'better' more natural highs etc.
> 
> ...




Love your "what me worry" avatar 

I agree that upsampling has it's place in software, but not necessarily in hardware. I use Pure Music to control iTunes' output, with "DSP turned off except for upsampling, mono and invert". I do kinda wish the Gungnir's chip could handle 176K, so I could try and suss if there's a difference with "power of two" upsampling.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Yes, all of the outputs are active simultaneously. I plan to make use of all three (bedroom headphones via balanced, living room headphones and speakers through the 2 RCAs)


----------



## tokendog

I got my Q-cable in and am now listening to the LCD-2.2 with the Mjolnir and Gungnir...let's just say it's rather sexy.  I am going to give it more time, of course, but... some naughty Schiit going on with this pairing...and it has me smiling.  Just a bit.


----------



## Jon Snow

roscoeiii said:


> Yes, all of the outputs are active simultaneously. I plan to make use of all three (bedroom headphones via balanced, living room headphones and speakers through the 2 RCAs)




That's good news! So, three outs on the Gungir and 2 on the Touch...lots of options.


----------



## earwaxxer

grokit said:


> Love your "what me worry" avatar
> I agree that upsampling has it's place in software, but not necessarily in hardware. I use Pure Music to control iTunes' output, with "DSP turned off except for upsampling, mono and invert". I do kinda wish the Gungnir's chip could handle 176K, so I could try and suss if there's a difference with "power of two" upsampling.




Thanks grokit! - I remember some moons ago someone telling me that 'multiples' doesnt matter with software SRC's. Something having to do with the way the algorithms work, being that its not in realtime etc. Unfortunately for me, the Transporter only goes to 24/96, so I cant experiment anything higher than that. That fact will gnaw at me until I splurge for a stand alone USB to SPDIF converter, or possibly an updated Schiit USB board. I figure I will let the technology settle a bit more. Maybe a year from now. Something to look forward to. I'm running out of mods etc!


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





earwaxxer said:


> I would say that, at least in my system, the Gungnir maintains its 'listen-ability' very well as the volume increases. The harshness/smearing etc. is much less. Much better than my Transporter or my 'long in the tooth' MSB. I would expect that characteristic from a current day DAC company that has rated well in those, and other important areas. To get this kind of performance for under $1K is why everyone is getting excited about it.
> As others have said above, you do still, get what you pay for. The higher priced kit makers are also upping their game, with new technology, techniques, parts etc. You cant really compare a 5 yr old DAC to a 6 mo. old DAC. Better to look at them like you would a PC.


 
   
  Thanks! That's very promising. I felt the Transporter was actually pretty good (relatively speaking, in DAC terms) at handling crescendos, so if the Gungnir is better that's great.


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





earwaxxer said:


> Thanks grokit! - I remember some moons ago someone telling me that 'multiples' doesnt matter with software SRC's. Something having to do with the way the algorithms work, being that its not in realtime etc. Unfortunately for me, the Transporter only goes to 24/96, so I cant experiment anything higher than that. That fact will gnaw at me until I splurge for a stand alone USB to SPDIF converter, or possibly an updated Schiit USB board. I figure I will let the technology settle a bit more. Maybe a year from now. Something to look forward to. I'm running out of mods etc!


 
   
  It's asynchronous sample conversion where multiples don't matter (and in fact, you don't want multiples). For computer use, you'll probably find you get better sound quality by upsampling to 88.2 kHz, rather than 96 kHz. The math is _way_ cleaner.


----------



## earwaxxer

moonunit said:


> It's asynchronous sample conversion where multiples don't matter (and in fact, you don't want multiples). For computer use, you'll probably find you get better sound quality by upsampling to 88.2 kHz, rather than 96 kHz. The math is _way_ cleaner.




Hey moonunit - it was my understanding that software up-samplers are always asynchronous, or does it depend on the software?


----------



## rx79ez08

I had a chance to compare MDAC and the Gungnir for about an hour, both driven using an Audiophilleo 1.  Comparing the two, their sound signatures are quite different.  To me Gungnir is shaper, brighter and more forward, with a bit more detail.  At first instance that does give a favourable sound, but to me I feel might be more fatigating to listen to in the long run.  In comparison, the MDAC is more layback and easy to listen to, but not as exciting.  To me the two compliment each other, but doesn't necessarily make one better than the other.  It depends on personal perference and the music that is playing.  I quite like the sound of the Gungnir and was ready to buy one to try something different, but ultimately decided to get a NAD M51 which is only about $300 more in Australia, which I felt was a better product and also easier to sell even if I don't like it (it is going like hot cake in first and second hand market in Australia at the moment).
   
  Interestingly I found the DAC section of the Gungnir has a similar signature to CEntrance DACmini, so maybe that is an option for people who do not need the balance output and want a decent headphone amp.
   
  One thing that I am quite disappointed with the Gungnir is the build quality.  The one that I listen to have a bended coaxial input right out of the box.  To me that is not very professional for a product that price, and I was not impressed.  Also comparing the two I feel that the build quality of the MDAC is much better and more professional.  I also like the smaller form factor of the MDAC.
   
  In terms of input and output MDAC have a larger range of input and output with 2 coaxial and 2 optical input, plus 1 USB in.  It also got 1 each of optical and coaxial output.  These IO options are very convient for connection to other equipments like PS3 and Xbox.  The added headphones amp is also decent (not the best but good enough for casual listen) which can be useful for some people.  The Gungnir in comparison is a bit limited.  However, the USB implementation of the Gungnir is arguably better.
   
  Lastly some reason MDAC (~ $950) is actually cheaper in Australia than the Gungnir (~$1030), but I guess it is neither here nor there.


----------



## olor1n

Hey rx, PM me if you decide to offload the M51.


----------



## ceausuc

Quote: 





rx79ez08 said:


> I had a chance to compare MDAC and the Gungnir for about an hour, both driven using an Audiophilleo 1.


 
   
  What setup was used? Speakers? Headphones? Have you considered/tested Audio Gd dacs in the same price range? Reference-5 looks so sweet...


----------



## earwaxxer

@RX - "I had a chance to compare MDAC and the Gungnir for about an hour, both driven using an Audiophilleo 1. Comparing the two, their sound signatures are quite different. To me Gungnir is shaper, brighter and more forward, with a bit more detail. At first instance that does give a favourable sound, but to me I feel might be more fatigating to listen to in the long run. In comparison, the MDAC is more layback and easy to listen to, but not as exciting. "


Interesting take on the Gungnir. That observation really does add up. Especially in the detail. I think thats why it performs well at higher volumes. The music doesnt 'break apart'. It amazes me how a DAC can have a certain sound!


----------



## rx79ez08

Quote: 





ceausuc said:


> What setup was used? Speakers? Headphones? Have you considered/tested Audio Gd dacs in the same price range? Reference-5 looks so sweet...


 
   
  I used a number of headphones with the Violectric V200 amp the test.
  I had considered Audio-GD stuff, but the fact that their product cycle is so short (as short as a few weeks) means I don't want to consider them (I don't want an old model after only a few weeks).


----------



## .Sup

rx79ez08 said:


> I used a number of headphones with the Violectric V200 amp the test.
> I had considered Audio-GD stuff, but the fact that their product cycle is so short (as short as a few weeks) means I don't want to consider them (I don't want an old model after only a few weeks).



you should get a vintage DAC that will never get upgraded again with that kind of thinking

Thank God AGD is upgrading with the latest and greatest, its not their fault they want the latest tech if the latest tech was just released.


----------



## MoonUnit

Quote: 





earwaxxer said:


> Hey moonunit - it was my understanding that software up-samplers are always asynchronous, or does it depend on the software?


 
   
  No, it's the other way around. Upsamplers in music playing apps are always synchronous. So doubling the sampling rate can be done by doubling the number of samples and applying a clean, simple FIR filter. Going to a non-integer multiple sample rate is much more involved. Ironically, this means it's often more audible, but the audible difference may not be an improvement, especially compared to upsampling to an integer multiple.


----------



## earwaxxer

cool


----------



## judmarc

Quote: 





moonunit said:


> No, it's the other way around. Upsamplers in music playing apps are always synchronous. So doubling the sampling rate can be done by doubling the number of samples and applying a clean, simple FIR filter. Going to a non-integer multiple sample rate is much more involved. Ironically, this means it's often more audible, but the audible difference may not be an improvement, especially compared to upsampling to an integer multiple.


 

 Could be either, actually (sync or async sample rate conversion, not to be confused with async or adaptive USB input).


----------



## earwaxxer

interesting - how does a sync and async SRC work? Just curious.


----------



## rx79ez08

Quote: 





.sup said:


> you should get a vintage DAC that will never get upgraded again with that kind of thinking
> Thank God AGD is upgrading with the latest and greatest, its not their fault they want the latest tech if the latest tech was just released.


 
   
  I have no problem with them releasing latest tech.  What I have a problem with is that they seem to have no confidence in their product. 
  If they are comfortable with their technology and have designed, tested and manufactured them properly, they should not need to revise their product so rapidly.  For example, in the last few months they have revised their flagship product multiple times, from the Ref 7 to Ref 7.1 to Master 7.  This is to the point where the reseller can almost not keep up.
  Are they that radically differene?  Probably not, if that is they case why don't you wait until more mature technology to come along for a major revision.  To me audio products are are hobby items, if I buy a flagship product that better be what the company is confident that it is the best they got, not something that they know is sub-optimal.


----------



## .Sup

rx79ez08 said:


> I have no problem with them releasing latest tech.  What I have a problem with is that they seem to have no confidence in their product.
> If they are comfortable with their technology and have designed, tested and manufactured them properly, they should not need to revise their product so rapidly.  For example, in the last few months they have revised their flagship product multiple times, from the Ref 7 to Ref 7.1 to Master 7.  This is to the point where the reseller can almost not keep up.
> Are they that radically differene?  Probably not, if that is they case why don't you wait until more mature technology to come along for a major revision.  To me audio products are are hobby items, if I buy a flagship product that better be what the company is confident that it is the best they got, not something that they know is sub-optimal.



Audio is the same as computers. A 1k quad extreme will only be a flagship so long until in a couple months a new quad with smaller build process, better heat dissipation and higher frequency is released. The Master 7 and ref 7.1 might not be very different in sound flavour or SNR but Master 7 has i2s input and a lot of people wanted that. If Kingwa released i2s on Ref 7.1 there might be bugs or errors because he takes his time testing which is how it should be. 

I wish Apple would already update the Mac mini so I can buy one with USB3, hopefully.


----------



## rwelles

Quote: 





.sup said:


> Audio is the same as computers. A 1k quad extreme will only be a flagship so long until in a couple months a new quad with smaller build process, better heat dissipation and higher frequency is released. The Master 7 and ref 7.1 might not be very different in sound flavour or SNR but Master 7 has i2s input and a lot of people wanted that. If Kingwa released i2s on Ref 7.1 there might be bugs or errors because he takes his time testing which is how it should be.
> I wish Apple would already update the Mac mini so I can buy one with USB3, hopefully.


 
  Your wish has been granted! The Mac Mini with USB3 was announced yesterday.


----------



## .Sup

rwelles said:


> Your wish has been granted! The Mac Mini with USB3 was announced yesterday.



I love you. I thought it was a prank so I went to the Apple's site and its true along with the ipad mini and possible a new Imac. I have waited long. Thank you!


----------



## Girls Generation

Where might your Soloist fit in?
  Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> I would choose the Mjolnr to the LCD-3 and the V200 to the LCD-2, but:
> 
> - If I were to choose one amp to all my headphones; I would have chosen the Mjolnir
> - If I would chose one amp to the LCD-2; I would have chosen the V200


----------



## Loevhagen

- If I would chose one amp to the LCD-3 of those I have - and the Mjolnir was out of the equation - I would have chosen the Soloist.
   
  But that's theory, since the Mjolnir is live 'n' kicking. I guess I should be wise and sell the Soloist. Not because it is not good. Far from it. It's just that I hardly use it since the Mjolnir passed the door step.


----------



## tokendog

The Gungnir and Mjolnir with the LCD-3 is wonderful.  Very clear and lively.


----------



## Girls Generation

Where does your soloist fit in with the LCD2? 
  Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> - If I would chose one amp to the LCD-3 of those I have - and the Mjolnir was out of the equation - I would have chosen the Soloist.
> 
> But that's theory, since the Mjolnir is live 'n' kicking. I guess I should be wise and sell the Soloist. Not because it is not good. Far from it. It's just that I hardly use it since the Mjolnir passed the door step.


----------



## justie

Im about to buy a new DAC next week and right now there are three contenders which are available locally:
  NAD m51, MDAC and gungnir.
 Can anyone give me a brief comparison between these 3 amps? Looking for something with more detail and imaging if that helps.
   
  THanks for ur help guys


----------



## Maxvla

Compared MDAC and Gungnir. Detail and imaging were superior on the Gungnir. I have not heard the NAD DAC.


----------



## thecourier

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Compared MDAC and Gungnir. Detail and imaging were superior on the Gungnir. I have not heard the NAD DAC.


 
   
  Anyone compared the Gungnir to the DA-160?


----------



## turboglo

So far with just three hours on the Gungnir I can say without a doubt that it bests a Moon 100d, a Wadia 121, and an Altmann DAC, the latter two by a large margin.


----------



## earwaxxer

turboglo said:


> So far with just three hours on the Gungnir I can say without a doubt that it bests a Moon 100d, a Wadia 121, and an Altmann DAC, the latter two by a large margin.




That is interesting. I would have thought the Wadia 121 would be stiff competition. Given the pedigree and all. How would you say the Gungnir bests the Wadia? 

The Altman DAC performance is probably very sensitive to the quality of the digital signal. IMO, the Gungnir seems to be the least sensitive DAC I have come across when it comes to various digital inputs and sources, bit rates etc.


----------



## turboglo

I may have overstated it a bit by saying "by a large margin." This is still a new unit with only 4 hours on it now, although I can usually tell what direction a new unit is heading.
   
  That said, I think that the Gungnir is more textured and open than either the Wadia or the Altmann. Its bass is also tighter and weightier. I've owned the Altmann for 5 years, and although it's quite good (especially when left powered up at all times -- I use a wall wart for that purpose, and listen using 12 volt battery), the Gungnir has more micro and macro dynamics, more detail, more depth.
   
  I thought the little Simaudio Moon 100d was quite good. The Gungnir seems like its got a similar signature, only more of the good stuff, especially a more realistic weight to instruments, which I personally find to be an important characteristic.
   
  My system is Merlin Master VSM's and an ARS Filarmonia.


----------



## rdsu

Gungnir has StandBy? If yes, what is it's Power Consumption?


----------



## earwaxxer

turboglo said:


> That said, I think that the Gungnir is more textured and open than either the Wadia or the Altmann. Its bass is also tighter and weightier. I've owned the Altmann for 5 years, and although it's quite good (especially when left powered up at all times -- I use a wall wart for that purpose, and listen using 12 volt battery), the Gungnir has more micro and macro dynamics, more detail, more depth.
> 
> I thought the little Simaudio Moon 100d was quite good. The Gungnir seems like its got a similar signature, only more of the good stuff, especially a more realistic weight to instruments, which I personally find to be an important characteristic.
> 
> My system is Merlin Master VSM's and an ARS Filarmonia.




I would have to agree. I found the same differences in comparison to my Transporter. I thought from the get go that the Transporter was a bit 'lean', but clean and well behaved. The Gungnir brings out the tubes in my preamp. Lets the tubes do their thing!


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





rdsu said:


> Gungnir has StandBy? If yes, what is it's Power Consumption?


 
  Not to be rude or anything but that's one of the most interesting question I have ever seen around here  
   
  Are you afraid of getting a huge electric bill if you forget to turn it off?


----------



## turboglo

Quote:  





> The Gungnir brings out the tubes in my preamp. Lets the tubes do their thing!


 
   
  Good point. My integrated is tubed and my sense is that I have the best of both worlds here. The clarity of SS and the musicality and texture of tubes.


----------



## turboglo

Ok, twelve hours, and I can say what I'm now hearing is WAY better than any of the three DACs mentioned above. In fact, it's some of the best digital I've ever heard.
   
  BTW, using a Mac Mini, 8 GB RAM, Audirvana Plus.


----------



## turboglo

Oh yeah, and glass Toslink cable.


----------



## Loevhagen

Having listened to the V800, Gungnir and the NAD M51 - the relative differences I detect when using balanced cables, LCD-3 and Mjolnir are:
   
  The M51 (compared to the Gungnir) portrays a cleaner  - and most important difference; an impressive coherent soundscape. I would underpin the latter. It is on the other hand twice the price, but I would say that is first and foremost due to the M51's impressive flexibility / remote / HDMI, etc. The Gungnir on the other hand has a sound signature that I would say is more tilted to the fun factor.
   
  At this level there is no "best". They are all very capable DACs, bit there are differences.
   
  Bottom-line: Want fun and party factor? Go for Gungnir. Want a sound that is every thing else? Go for NAD M51 (or V800). 
   
  These are relative descriptions and the Gungnir is really good - but not as true to the soundscape as M51 and V800. IMHO.
   
  Does all this mean that I use the M51 daily in the head-fi rig? No. It is doing a good job as DAC / pre combo to a set of active Dynaudio Focus 110A speakers at the televison corner of the living room. "Best" is not always de facto best.


----------



## rated1975

Impressive flexibility / remote / HDMI / and soundscapes aside, how does the Gungnir stack up SQ wise with the V800 and M51.
  The cost of these DACs in AU is a lot closer than in Europe. (Gungnir - $1,039, V800 - $1,193, M51 - $1,500)
  Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> M51's impressive flexibility / remote / HDMI, etc.


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





yuceka said:


> Not to be rude or anything but that's one of the most interesting question I have ever seen around here
> 
> Are you afraid of getting a huge electric bill if you forget to turn it off?


 
  The power button is not on front panel, and this seems to be made to be always on...
   
  I'm seeing a lot of companies making their products to waste the least possible energy when the component is not in use, so why not Schiit too?
   
  At least the power button should be on front!
   
  Glad to see you are a Dream Theater fan!


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





turboglo said:


> Ok, twelve hours, and I can say what I'm now hearing is WAY better than any of the three DACs mentioned above. In fact, it's some of the best digital I've ever heard.
> 
> BTW, using a Mac Mini, 8 GB RAM, Audirvana Plus.


 
  Really great!


----------



## justie

Quote: 





rated1975 said:


> Impressive flexibility / remote / HDMI / and soundscapes aside, how does the Gungnir stack up SQ wise with the V800 and M51.
> The cost of these DACs in AU is a lot closer than in Europe. (Gungnir - $1,039, V800 - $1,193, M51 - $1,500)


 
   
  Exactly. So far 2 people have posted that M51 is technically superior to the gungnir and loevhagen said that the gungnir has a more fun factor. Wat do u mean by fun factor though? Could u elaborate on that?


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Bottom-line: Want fun and party factor? Go for Gungnir. Want a sound that is every thing else? Go for NAD M51 (or V800).


 
   
  But do you think Gungnir is neutral?


----------



## Loevhagen

Neutral needs a reference point - or the neutral is per definition the reference. I would say that the Gungnir presents a tad more coloration than the V800 and the M51 from NAD. I.e. among these three, I would not say the Gungnir is neutral.
   
  Coloration can often be a good thing and for many head-fiers they seek exactly the right amount of coloration. Others don't. What to prefer, is not solely up to the listerner's preferences, but also what kind of music they listen the most to. Some like the HD800. Some the LCD-2. And so one.
   
  I would put the V800 and the M51 in the "HD800" segment - and the Gungnir in the LCD-2 segment of sound coloration. Stupid analogy - I know - but better than none.
   
  Fun factor = the right amount of coloration = toe tapping experiences. The NAD M51, or the V800, in a combination with the right amp will of course make toe tapping happen, but for me they needs to be combined with some coloration. Cf. the V200/V800 + LCD-2 combo.
   
  If I was allowed to keep one DAC of the V800, M51 and Gungnir: The two latter had to go. Not because they are not good. They are very good, but the V800 would be a one-stop-DAC to both the V200/LCD-2 and the Mjolnir/LCD-3 for me.
   
  That simple. That complex. That subjective.
   
  PostScript: I know that opinions on the internet are easily blown out of proportions, so I'll say this: I find all these 3 DACs to be very good. I like the versatility / flexibility the M51 and V800 has over the Gungnir - and that fact does not clutter my view of them sound wise.


----------



## earwaxxer

rdsu said:


> But do you think Gungnir is neutral?




To add to Loevhagen's assessment... I think its helpful to take a look at the other gear that a high end audio manufacturer makes and understand that there will most definitely be a certain 'house sound' to that companies kit. They work hard at that. That is their branding, their signature. It becomes what good high end companies are known for. If your sound is all over the map, audiophiles will not trust you.

If you like a good pint of Guinness for example, you expect it to taste as good when you pour it from a can, a bottle, or straight from the tap.

I dont know what Schiit's other gear sounds like, but the fact that they use tubes tells me what sort of sound the designers like, and it doesnt at all appear to be an afterthought or marketing stunt!


----------



## Girls Generation

Do you think the Mjolnir/Gungnir is too much for vocals and alternative? I'm aiming for engaging yet somewhat relaxed. A bit slower decay but with adequate PRaT.
   
  I'm aiming for balanced over SE so no V200 or Soloist.
   
  Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Neutral needs a reference point - or the neutral is per definition the reference. I would say that the Gungnir presents a tad more coloration than the V800 and the M51 from NAD. I.e. among these three, I would not say the Gungnir is neutral.
> 
> Coloration can often be a good thing and for many head-fiers they seek exactly the right amount of coloration. Others don't. What to prefer, is not solely up to the listerner's preferences, but also what kind of music they listen the most to. Some like the HD800. Some the LCD-2. And so one.
> 
> ...


----------



## Loevhagen

Quote: 





> I'm aiming for balanced over SE so no V200 or Soloist.


 
   
  First, just for the record, the V200 have both XLR and RCA inputs. The Soloist "just" RCA.
   
   


> Do you think the Mjolnir/Gungnir is too much for vocals and alternative? I'm aiming for engaging yet somewhat relaxed. A bit slower decay but with adequate PRaT.


 
   
  Good question. The LCD-3 have a more shy vocal presentation than e.g. the LCD-2. The rest of the LCD-3 is just spot on for me. So, in order to make the LCD-3 fit my preferences, the Mjolnir / Gungnir removes the LCD-3's vocal shyness. Perfect match.
   
  I know you are not assessing the Soloiist, but others might - so I just want to add that the Soloist has the same ability to make the LCD-3 less shy wrt. vocals. And, the biggest difference between the Mjolnir and the Soloist is that it is impossible to fall asleep with the Mjonir - but with the Soloist that is actually possible. I.e. "relaxed" = Soloist.
   
  Regarding PRaT; the Mjolnir/Gungnir will probably increase the level of lactic acid in your foot by far margin.


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





rdsu said:


> *The power button is not on front panel, and this seems to be made to be always on...*
> 
> I'm seeing a lot of companies making their products to waste the least possible energy when the component is not in use, so why not Schiit too?
> 
> At least the power button should be on front!


 
  Not really, Mac Mini power button is at the back, and this does not mean to suggest we always have to leave the computer ON.
   
  The reason could be just as simple as aesthetic reason.  Don't think too far guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . 
  The world it not always as complicated as we want it to be.
   
  I like Epica, by the way.


----------



## mackat

It says in the manual that leaving it on won't do anything to the lifespan- other companies even go so far as to say it stabilizes the components!

Any Mac of mine rarely turns off, it always goes to bed!


----------



## justie

Proud new owner of gungnir here! Went to A2A, did a comparison between the gungnir and the V800. The V800 i feel is technically superior than the gungnir. More detail and clarity from the V800. The gungnir has alot of detail as well but its not as crystal clear as the V800. The gungnir however is exaclty like loevhagen said, more fun. The bass has more impact and texture. Treble and mids are roughly equal but V800 wins in detail and clarity.
   
  It should be noted I asked and I was told that the gungnir in Addicted to Audio doesnt get played as much so that might mean that alot more burn in is required.
   
  I ran both via USB to a Schiit Lyr (because thats wat i have at home) and a pair of LCD2r1.
   
  The V800 beats the gungnir in detail and clarity but the gungnir is no slouch either. Everything is CRYSTAL CLEAR. Reverb and depth is portrayed clearly and realistically. Very very impressive. It was an intense session for me, being constantly wowed everytime i change a track!
   
  Ultimately, I want my music more enjoyable so I went with the gungnir (plus it matches with my Lyr in looks better) but I can definitely understand why someone would prefer the V800 over the gungnir. Both very very impressive DACs!


----------



## Girls Generation

Oh, I'm actually looking for balanced output. So, if the Mjo/Gung removes LCD-3's vocal shyness, would it overwhelm the vocals on the LCD2 rev2?
   
  I'm torn between fun and relaxing... Wish I can have both 
  Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> First, just for the record, the V200 have both XLR and RCA inputs. The Soloist "just" RCA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Not really, Mac Mini power button is at the back, and this does not mean to suggest we always have to leave the computer ON.
> 
> The reason could be just as simple as aesthetic reason.  Don't think too far guys
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is just my opinion, because the rear button will not be accessible for me and other people...


----------



## 333jeffery

The Gungnir beats the Bifrost pretty handily when it comes to pipe-organ music. My Virgil Fox cd's always sounded anemic on the Bifrost, but the Gungnir makes them sound vibrant and powerful. With no shrillness, either.


----------



## buson160man

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> First, just for the record, the V200 have both XLR and RCA inputs. The Soloist "just" RCA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   If you want an amp that really awakens the lcd 2 v2 and makes them shine you need to listen to them with the bryston balanced amp. I do own the lcd2 v2 and auditioned them in a local audio salon with the bryston and I must say I have never heard them sound tighter and when I mean tigther I mean a lot tighter and the bass was just awesome and I was only listening single ended.I can only imagine what the bryston can do with the audezes in balanced mode. If you are looking for a good partnering amp for audezes I think you should give the bryston an audition.


----------



## justie

Anybody have problems so far with toslink and 24bit 88khz tracks? I cant seem to get it to work in foobar with wasapi toslink to gungnir
   
  If i use direct non wasapi, it works but thats because windows upsamples the track to 96khz (which does work with gungnir) before being sent to gungnir


----------



## RedBull

rdsu said:


> This is just my opinion, because the rear button will not be accessible for me and other people...




Incovenience, I agree.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





buson160man said:


> If you want an amp that really awakens the lcd 2 v2 and makes them shine you need to listen to them with the bryston balanced amp. I do own the lcd2 v2 and auditioned them in a local audio salon with the bryston and I must say I have never heard them sound tighter and when I mean tigther I mean a lot tighter and the bass was just awesome and I was only listening single ended.I can only imagine what the bryston can do with the audezes in balanced mode. If you are looking for a good partnering amp for audezes I think you should give the bryston an audition.


 
   
   
  +1


----------



## 45longcolt

Possible reasons for putting the power switch on the back (same as on my power conditioner, btw...)
   
  1. More efficient citcuit board layout.
   
  2. Ultimate in clean aesthetics on the front panel.
   
  3. Easier and cheaper to punch a hole in the rear sheet metal than to machine a hole on the front aluminum.
   
  4. Uses a more, shall we say cost-efficient switch you don't see rather than a nicer button on the front.
   
  5. To aggravate me.
   
  In an ideal world, Schiit would move the switch to the front (maybe on their statement gear, pretty please?) Or they could at least position the switch outboard of the power cord socket, as close to the edge of the amp/dac as possible and a bit more accessible.
   
  All that said, I've bought their last four products so it obvously doesn't bother me that much. Just nit-picking.


----------



## earwaxxer

I personally like the switch on the back! 

I have my gear on the floor, and I have about 7 different things to do to fire up my system. I hard boot my Transporter by plugging it in on the back of the unit, switch the Gungnir on, switch on the preamp, throw the main rocker switch on the back of the Emotiva, push the on/standby switch on the front of the Emotiva, push the power button on my Crown sub amp. Of course, before all of this, I have to wake up my laptop and plug in the ethernet cable. Reverse order on shutdown. I kind of like the ritual!


----------



## grokit

The only switches I use are on a power strip for the chain, and amp switches depending on what headphones I plan to use, or no amps if I'm listening with speakers or burning in other gear. I never touch the Gungnir switch but I can totally relate to "backside switch frustration", as the preamp switch to my WA22 is on the back the and I find that frustrating.


----------



## justie

Interestingly, how do u guys burn in a dac? do u let the dac>amp>headphones play music or just leave the dac running?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





justie said:


> Interestingly, how do u guys burn in a dac? do u let the dac>amp>headphones play music or just leave the dac running?


 
  You can just leave the DAC on.


----------



## rdsu

Quote: 





45longcolt said:


> Possible reasons for putting the power switch on the back (same as on my power conditioner, btw...)
> 
> 1. More efficient citcuit board layout.
> 
> ...


 
   
  On a Power Conditioner that is very normal, since it doesn't use any energy. It's just to power off or protect all the components connected to it...


----------



## rdsu

I really doubt power button will change it's current position on Statement DAC, since all Schiit components use the same layout...
   
  If I buy it, I will have to find a way to insert something between the IEC and power cord...


----------



## 333jeffery

^This would be a good use for the "Clapper".


----------



## turboglo

Quote: 





333jeffery said:


> ^This would be a good use for the "Clapper".


 
   
   
  Of course, applause during live performances would then present a problem.


----------



## turboglo

Unless you're listening through headphones, that is.


----------



## turboglo

BTW, I'm afraid I'm becoming a fanboy. This is four full days of being powered up continually, with about 50 hours playing time, and I'm very impressed with this DAC. Extremely musical and accurate/detailed at the same time.
   
  It's going to be a very tough call for me as to whether to hold onto the Gungnir or to hold out for the little bun of Schiit that's in the oven.


----------



## kLevkoff

About USB screeches.
   
  First, I have a Bifrost and I've never heard it do anything like that, but I can shed some light on the subject overall.
   
  When you start and stop the data stream on a computer (which happens whenever you start or stop a track, and whenever you change the sample rate), you sometimes end up with what amounts to a little bit of bad data in the computer's buffer. When the new track starts, the computer "clears its throat" and dumps this bad data. The result is a really nasty burst of not quite white noise that sounds like a click or screech. Most DACs mute this, but sometimes a little bit manages to get by. (You have to pick a mute time: if it's too short then sometimes you hear a screech; if its too long, you bite off some of the music.) I've heard similar occasional screeches or clicks with quite a few different USB DACs. I suspect that you only hear it when the particular computer and software happens to send out a longer burst than usual, or the DAC gets "caught out" and doesn't mute like it should. Of the half dozen DACs I use often, three or four of them do it - at least occasionally......
   
   
  Quote: 





plsvn said:


> ... it actually is a very random glitch (that only lasts a few seconds then goes away by itself) and it may never happen in weeks
> (but when it happens... it's very unlikely it is only once  )
> 
> my solution is... use optical for everything but 24-192 files
> ...


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

So I went and pulled the trigger on a Gungnir tonight. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I've had this creeping feeling that I've been too cozy with my Grace m903 and want to put it up against something new and shiny. The Grace is a fantastic all-in-one with a DAC section that I found to compare favorably to the W4S DAC2. Let's see if it can keep it's Schiit together when a new contender is placed on the rack next to it!


----------



## earwaxxer

olias of sunhillow said:


> So I went and pulled the trigger on a Gungnir tonight.
> 
> I've had this creeping feeling that I've been too cozy with my Grace m903 and want to put it up against something new and shiny. The Grace is a fantastic all-in-one with a DAC section that I found to compare favorably to the W4S DAC2. Let's see if it can keep it's Schiit together when a new contender is placed on the rack next to it!




Should be interesting! Looking forward to your impressions. I think you will be pleased. The Gungnir has SOUL, much different than a Benchmark or Grace. At least that my prediction!


----------



## rwelles

Quote: 





klevkoff said:


> About USB screeches.
> 
> First, I have a Bifrost and I've never heard it do anything like that, but I can shed some light on the subject overall.
> 
> When you start and stop the data stream on a computer (which happens whenever you start or stop a track, and whenever you change the sample rate), you sometimes end up with what amounts to a little bit of bad data in the computer's buffer. When the new track starts, the computer "clears its throat" and dumps this bad data. The result is a really nasty burst of not quite white noise that sounds like a click or screech. Most DACs mute this, but sometimes a little bit manages to get by. (You have to pick a mute time: if it's too short then sometimes you hear a screech; if its too long, you bite off some of the music.) I've heard similar occasional screeches or clicks with quite a few different USB DACs. I suspect that you only hear it when the particular computer and software happens to send out a longer burst than usual, or the DAC gets "caught out" and doesn't mute like it should. Of the half dozen DACs I use often, three or four of them do it - at least occasionally......


 
  Does that mean the "screech" would happen at the beginning of a track? I'm hearing it in the middle of tracks (using Memory Play in Pure Music).


----------



## judmarc

Quote: 





rwelles said:


> Does that mean the "screech" would happen at the beginning of a track? I'm hearing it in the middle of tracks (using Memory Play in Pure Music).


 
   
  Agreed (using Audirvana Plus, which is also a memory player).  To me, it sounds more like the DAC is beginning to be overdriven (a sibilance or harshness), then goes all the way into something similar to feedback, though not as harsh or loud as, say, the guitar feedback sounds most of us are familiar with.


----------



## korzena

Not much has been said in regards to Gungnir's soundstage.
  How does its soundstage compare to other DACs (Bifrost, V800, MDAC)?


----------



## earwaxxer

korzena said:


> Not much has been said in regards to Gungnir's soundstage.
> How does its soundstage compare to other DACs (Bifrost, V800, MDAC)?




Soundstage is a weird one to assess. When my speakers are positioned just right they disappear. Its funny, but compared to my MSB and Transporter I dont think the Gungnir is much, if at all different. That could be a good thing. The staging is what I would call 'believable'. Dont worry, for the bux, its good!


----------



## LCfiner

I just ordered one of these from headphone bar in Canada. USB version was all they had in stock. I don't really need the input as I intend to use optical out from the Mac but I suppose it'll be good to have just in case.
   
  I'll be curious to compare this with the ODAC in my system now.
   
  I had previously bought a JKDAC32 in the late summer and the sound was a nice improvement over the ODAC (it was subtle, but noticeable to me at the time) but the necessary drivers introduced noticeable and unacceptable audio lag for every application on the Mac. So I had to return it which was disappointing as I liked the sound. I'm hoping that the Gungnir will provide a meaningful upgrade to the ODAC and I can stop DAC hopping.


----------



## SourceGuy

I finally got the 'buy better gear light' to turn on.  The Gungnir does not like the Airport express' optical signal.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





sourceguy said:


> I finally got the 'buy better gear light' to turn on.  The Gungnir does not like the Airport express' optical signal.


 
   
  Fascinating. I know my Bifrost plays nicely with the Apple TV, but I've not tried it with the AE. I'll try multiple combinations once the Gungnir arrives.
   
  I know the DacMagic was basically useless with the AE... dropouts every 10 seconds or so. Unlistenable.


----------



## Girls Generation

Interesting, I go there often to bother Travis and interrupt his business by sitting there for hours listening to stuff. 
  Quote: 





lcfiner said:


> I just ordered one of these from headphone bar in Canada. USB version was all they had in stock. I don't really need the input as I intend to use optical out from the Mac but I suppose it'll be good to have just in case.
> 
> I'll be curious to compare this with the ODAC in my system now.
> 
> I had previously bought a JKDAC32 in the late summer and the sound was a nice improvement over the ODAC (it was subtle, but noticeable to me at the time) but the necessary drivers introduced noticeable and unacceptable audio lag for every application on the Mac. So I had to return it which was disappointing as I liked the sound. I'm hoping that the Gungnir will provide a meaningful upgrade to the ODAC and I can stop DAC hopping.


----------



## grokit

olias of sunhillow said:


> sourceguy said:
> 
> 
> > I finally got the 'buy better gear light' to turn on.  The Gungnir does not like the Airport express' optical signal.
> ...




Are you guys running lossless files through the AE? I remember reading that it streams much better with compressed music.


----------



## Roscoeiii

Hi folks,
   
  I have streamed  video twice with the audio goign through the Gungnir, and both times I have had a lag between the audio and the video. The first time was using a M2Tech HiFace that I thought was likely producing the lag. But last night I had an optical cable from my Mac MIni straight to the Gungnir. I haven't tested this with physical media like a DVD yet (on my to-do list for today), but I wanted to see if anyone else had experienced this.


----------



## earwaxxer

Thats not the Gungnir. There is buffering going on with the audio. 

I say, the best way to handle video is use a blu-ray player with some digital outputs and connect the DAC through that. I have used my Gungnir with my blu-ray player. Sounds great of course!


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Are you guys running lossless files through the AE? I remember reading that it streams much better with compressed music.


 
   
  I've never personally experienced a difference with lossless vs. lossy files using the AE or Apple TV. My library is about 75% lossless and streaming via Apple TV > Bifrost > Outlaw RR2150 receiver is my primary method of speaker listening.


----------



## SourceGuy

Yes, I am running apple lossless files through the AE. The light only comes on after a few minutes of listening.... Sometimes longer. I don't think the file type would matter but more so the digital transport itself.


----------



## korzena

Will Gungnir be a big upgrade from Bifrost in the following setup:
  PC laptop > USB/SPDIF converter (JKSPDIF mk3) > *Bifrost OR Gungnir* > Schiit Lyr > LCD2 rev.2
  What does Gungnir do much better than Bifrost?


----------



## grokit

The Bifrost may be a better match for the Lyr, as the Bifrost is reportedly a leaner sounding DAC and the Lyr has a warmish sound to somewhat offset that. The Gungnir > Mjolnir combo is reportedly somewhat the opposite, where the DAC has more body and the amp is fast and lean.


----------



## Loevhagen

This. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






> the DAC has more body and the amp is fast and lean.


----------



## korzena

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The Bifrost may be a better match for the Lyr, as the Bifrost is reportedly a leaner sounding DAC and the Lyr has a warmish sound to somewhat offset that. The Gungnir > Mjolnir combo is reportedly somewhat the opposite, where the DAC has more body and the amp is fast and lean.


 

 Has anybody actually experienced it, meaning auditioned Bifrost and Gungnir with Lyr, ideally with LCD-2?
  Theoretically your suggestion makes perfect sense, but I want to be sure it works in practice like this.


----------



## korzena

Does less body in Bifrost translates to more analytical and less musical?
  I am looking for an emotional response in the music, more heart - less mind Can it be the problem with Bifrost vs Gungnir with LCD-2?

 How do they sound together in practice? Could anybody share their experience of Bifrost (or Gungnir) > Lyr > LCD2.


----------



## earwaxxer

I would experiment with different interconnects/wires if you are still looking to change your sound. After that has been done, and you are still not where you want to be, possibly try a different DAC. For the price of the Gungnir ($750), you can do some major system tweaks.


----------



## Loevhagen

My humble opinion is that focusing on IC to significant change sound signature, is a dead end.


----------



## korzena

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> My humble opinion is that focusing on IC to significant change sound signature, is a dead end.


 

 I think so, too. I've gone this way with my previous setup. It turned out to be quite expensive and not very effective. I am not saying that it must always be the case, but I wouldn't like to go this way after my previous experiences.


----------



## LCfiner

I would think if someone were willing to spend a lot of money on cables to tweak the sound, wouldn't it be much more effective to invest in a decent hardware EQ? Or perhaps a some good software EQ if the source is a computer.


----------



## 333jeffery

I had a Bifrost/Lyr/HE500 setup and went to a Gungnir/Lyr/HE500 setup. The Gungnir has a good bit more "full bodied" sound to it than the Bifrost. Vocals are particularly lush through it compared to the Bifrost. The HE500's sound wonderful with it. Keep in mind that I have some awesome tubes in my Lyr, which definitely helps, too.
  I also have a Mjolnir on it's way, but that is a few weeks off.


----------



## plsvn

Quote: 





klevkoff said:


> About USB screeches.
> 
> First, I have a Bifrost and I've never heard it do anything like that, but I can shed some light on the subject overall.
> 
> When you start and stop the data stream on a computer (which happens whenever you start or stop a track, and whenever you change the sample rate), you sometimes end up with what amounts to a little bit of bad data in the computer's buffer. When the new track starts, the computer "clears its throat" and dumps this bad data. The result is a really nasty burst of not quite white noise that sounds like a click or screech. Most DACs mute this, but sometimes a little bit manages to get by. (You have to pick a mute time: if it's too short then sometimes you hear a screech; if its too long, you bite off some of the music.) I've heard similar occasional screeches or clicks with quite a few different USB DACs. I suspect that you only hear it when the particular computer and software happens to send out a longer burst than usual, or the DAC gets "caught out" and doesn't mute like it should. Of the half dozen DACs I use often, three or four of them do it - at least occasionally......


 
   
  ... it's a really hard to track-down issue as... it's completely random: it can happen on almost every track *that* day/session (but, at least here, never when a track starts) or never in days/weeks
   
  my first hypothesis has been that buffering was triggering it (as *that day* it represented every 20-30 minutes) but I've been proven wrong the next time it happened: no "fixed" time interval between instances
   
  so... :-/


----------



## plsvn

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Are you guys running lossless files through the AE? I remember reading that it streams much better with compressed music.


 
   
  lossy, lossless... whatever the original file is, it's re-enconded on the fly to ALAC 16-44.1 as AirTunes protocol only handles this
  (... probably, but I'm not sure, 16-48 too. ALAC, anyway)


----------



## justie

Burn in seems to help the gungnir in terms of soundstage. My gungnir now has a wider out of head soundstage compared to the one i tested in the headphone store. They said their gungnir didnt get much use but I have been burning in mine for the past week. Soundstage is bigger in mine ever so slightly. Listening to Gadamaylin by I Ching from the Open Your Ears Chesky album. Both times using my LCD2r1 and a Schiit Lyr


----------



## rwelles

Quote: 





plsvn said:


> ... it's a really hard to track-down issue as... it's completely random: it can happen on almost every track *that* day/session (but, at least here, never when a track starts) or never in days/weeks
> 
> my first hypothesis has been that buffering was triggering it (as *that day* it represented every 20-30 minutes) but I've been proven wrong the next time it happened: no "fixed" time interval between instances
> 
> so... :-/


 
  FWIW, I switched from an "audiophile-grade" USB cable to a generic, cheap one. This was at Jason's suggestion. It's been a couple of weeks, and—knock wood—no screeching so far.
   
  I don't believe that the cable is the root cause, since I'd been using it for months with my previous DAC without any issues. It must be in the way the Gungnir interfaces with it. One possibility is mechanical: first cable is much heavier which puts more stress on the input. Don't know. If/when screech re-appears, I'll post.


----------



## plsvn

Quote: 





rwelles said:


> FWIW, I switched from an "audiophile-grade" USB cable to a generic, cheap one. This was at Jason's suggestion. It's been a couple of weeks, and—knock wood—no screeching so far.
> 
> I don't believe that the cable is the root cause, since I'd been using it for months with my previous DAC without any issues. It must be in the way the Gungnir interfaces with it. One possibility is mechanical: first cable is much heavier which puts more stress on the input. Don't know. If/when screech re-appears, I'll post.


 
   
  ... following Jason's advice, I switched too from a Wireworld Ultraviolet to an USB cable *with* ferrite filters on both ends
  (... but, please, don't tell him it's the Kimber USB. I swear: it's the only *short* cable with ferrites on both ends I could find ;-p )
   
   
  so far (10 days since)... it still happens but a) less frequently and b) with less instances, when it happens, in the same session/day
  but when it happens, each "screeech" seems to lasts longer (30 sec versus 10-15 with the old cable)


----------



## mackat

It's happened 2 or 3 times in the past week to me, but I've kinda gotten used to it.


----------



## grokit

After more extensive burn-in of the USB input I still feel that the external XMOS-based V192 provides improvement, which was my original impression. It's not huge but it's there. 

My USB cable is a Furutech ADL Formula 2, I've never had any screeches or anything at all like that.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





plsvn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Have you advised Jason of your findings with a ferrite choked cable? Recommending a usb cable with ferrite chokes is the standard response from Schiit. Providing them with this info should go towards isolating the issue if they are working on a solution.


----------



## rx79ez08

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Have you advised Jason of your findings with a ferrite choked cable? Recommending a usb cable with ferrite chokes is the standard response from Schiit. Providing them with this info should go towards isolating the issue if they are working on a solution.


 

 If that is the case, then this is truely disturbing.  From an engineering point of view if you cannot solve the problem , then you add filter and hope for the best.  Filtering does not solve the problem most of the time, it just hide the effect so hopefully no one can see.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Have you advised Jason of your findings with a ferrite choked cable? Recommending a usb cable with ferrite chokes is the standard response from Schiit. Providing them with this info should go towards isolating the issue if they are working on a solution.


 
  Yep, we're aware of it. Like I said, this is a tough one to find--and very rare, only about 30 known instances out of 2600 USB boards (well, now about 2700-2800) shipped. And all but a handful have been fixed by changing the cable or swapping the USB board.
   
  We're working on it, and may have an update soon, but in the meantime, the vast majority (about 99%) of the USB board shipped have had no problem. Because of the rarity, and because of the difficulty in triggering it on our side, expect a longer development cycle. We have to run each proposed solution for days on multiple systems to see if it has an effect.


----------



## Robsan

Hi Jason,
  I didn't even know it was a known problem until now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I can confirm that I've had it happen to me a number of times on both the Bifrost + Lyr and again with the Gungnir + Mjolnir. Switching from USB to another input and back clears the noise problem immediately. It's exactly the same behavior on both DACs with the Bifrost "clearing its throat" in about 10s compared to 20s+ on the Gungnir.
   
  Should I ask for a replacement USB board or something like that? TBH, I didn't happen frequently enough to bother me but if it can be fixed...
   
  Thanks,
  Rob
   
  PS: That said, they're both great DACs, I love mine! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Yep, we're aware of it. Like I said, this is a tough one to find--and very rare, only about 30 known instances out of 2600 USB boards (well, now about 2700-2800) shipped. And all but a handful have been fixed by changing the cable or swapping the USB board.
> 
> We're working on it, and may have an update soon, but in the meantime, the vast majority (about 99%) of the USB board shipped have had no problem. Because of the rarity, and because of the difficulty in triggering it on our side, expect a longer development cycle. We have to run each proposed solution for days on multiple systems to see if it has an effect.


----------



## earwaxxer

It must be frustrating! I guess we are continuing down that path of refinement when it comes to audio over USB. Its fun to watch the dual between SPDIF and USB!


----------



## mackat

Geez, it just did it four times in a row and counting...


----------



## mackat

Now 6 times


----------



## rx79ez08

Out of curosity are you using the USB 2.0 driver or the stock Windows driver?


----------



## mackat

Mac mini


----------



## MoonUnit

Just out of curiosity, how much RAM is in your Mac mini?


----------



## mackat

16GB


----------



## Erukian

Out of curiosity, have you tried BitPerfect, Amarra or Audiravna?
   
  Amarra and Audirvana have demo trials you can use to test, while BitPerfect has the cleanest implementation (but not the best SRC's, if you're into that kind of thing).


----------



## paradoxper

Isn't the problem W/hardware in one way or another. If so, other software such as Amarra or BP would do nothing.
   
  And Amarra is really nice when it works.


----------



## Solude

Pray the problem is software since that's all Schiit can help change. Mac's don't have a driver as far as I know so nothing to change there.  
   
  In the meantime, what I haven't heard is 'iTunes screeches!'.  C-Media doesn't test their hardware against audiophile niche products.  Don't expect them to rework a chipset for obscure software so that Schiit can replace a handful of boards 
   
  Not to be rough but I get the impression people think Schiit builds the USB>SPDIF chipset or has something to do with the driver... they don't.  You should be bugging C-Media.


----------



## SourceGuy

I went ahead and purchased a V-Link 192.  It beats out the Gungnir's onboard USB in that it is less edgy.  Also, I have yet to encounter the screeching defect with the V-link using PureMusic.  However, I still prefer the optical out on the mac over the v-link.  The USB just sounds choppy in comparison to the soft, smooth sound of the optical.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





solude said:


> Pray the problem is software since that's all Schiit can help change. Mac's don't have a driver as far as I know so nothing to change there.
> 
> In the meantime, what I haven't heard is 'iTunes screeches!'.  C-Media doesn't test their hardware against audiophile niche products.  Don't expect them to rework a chipset for obscure software so that Schiit can replace a handful of boards
> 
> Not to be rough but I get the impression people think Schiit builds the USB>SPDIF chipset or has something to do with the driver... they don't.  You should be bugging C-Media.


 
  And it's still only affected a few % of Gungnir/Bifrost owners. Nothing is conclusive as to why it happens or how to fix it.


----------



## earwaxxer

sourceguy said:


> I went ahead and purchased a V-Link 192.  It beats out the Gungnir's onboard USB in that it is less edgy.  Also, I have yet to encounter the screeching defect with the V-link using PureMusic.  However, I still prefer the optical out on the mac over the v-link.  The USB just sounds choppy in comparison to the soft, smooth sound of the optical.




Interesting observation! thanks


----------



## Jmstrmbn

Quote: 





sourceguy said:


> I went ahead and purchased a V-Link 192.  It beats out the Gungnir's onboard USB in that it is less edgy.  Also, I have yet to encounter the screeching defect with the V-link using PureMusic.  However, I still prefer the optical out on the mac over the v-link.  The USB just sounds choppy in comparison to the soft, smooth sound of the optical.


 
  Have you tried the Audirvana Plus beta with integer/direct mode?  I feel it beats the optical of my macbook.


----------



## olor1n

The screeching also occurs when running iTunes by itself. I mainly use optical from my MBP but I'm listening via usb at the moment. I've only observed the screeching from my Gungnir once before but it has just occurred a number of times in the last 10 minutes.


----------



## Girls Generation

Do you hear any sonic differences between the two inputs? I've read USB is grainier, but I've also read optical in MBPs are sub-par. I don't think my rMBP will be an exception if this is true, but it'd be nice to free up a USB port since I only have two.
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> The screeching also occurs when running iTunes by itself. I mainly use optical from my MBP but I'm listening via usb at the moment. I've only observed the screeching from my Gungnir once before but it has just occurred a number of times in the last 10 minutes.


----------



## Erukian

It's sub-par in the sense that OSX limits optical out to 24/96, but if you load up windows in bootcamp, you can output 24/192. I don't have many 192khz recordings that aren't audiophile specific, which is usually not the type of music I listen to, so for me.. no big deal. I'm not aware of it being subar on any other level. Maybe schiit could comment on any issues with Mac optical out.
   
  Personally, I don't think USB is necessary when every Mac pretty much does optical out. There were rumors that the Retina models wouldn't but those were based on leaked specs, all new models do (except the Air, probably due to additional space requirements for transmitting optical).


----------



## SourceGuy

I have not tried Audirvana so maybe I should trial it.  The Gungnir's USB implementation might excel in dynamics and other areas but I favor the more natural and analog sound I get from my MBP's optical.  I'll continue to listen and compare although I think my ears have made up their mind.


----------



## Robsan

If that's of any use: it happened both using PureMusic as well as BitPerfect. (And of course direct from iTunes too)


----------



## mcstain

I'm experiencing USB screeching on my setup as well, which includes a late 2007 Macbook connected to a Schiit Bifrost. The issue has occurred during playback of a video via Plex and whilst playing music via iTunes and Audirvana +. I'd be interested to know whether anyone has experienced this issue with a Mac that is newer than 2009. Audirvana + states in the FAQ that pre-2009 Macs have a different USB board which results in separate issues. I had been thinking of buying a new Mac Mini for my rig, and was hoping that it would also prevent the USB screeching issue.


----------



## justie

Has anyone tried comparing toslink and spdif? Just curious if the 2 optical outs will have any differences. Assuming both are outputting at the same bit rate/depth


----------



## earwaxxer

justie said:


> Has anyone tried comparing toslink and spdif? Just curious if the 2 optical outs will have any differences. Assuming both are outputting at the same bit rate/depth




I briefly compared them. I didnt notice a difference. I found that encouraging, because my with my old MSB the toslink was clearly cleaner. I was comparing a glass toslink with a Better Cables .5m digital coax. 

What I am using now is a BNC cable from JPS Labs (Transporter has BNC output). When I first popped it in, I thought that it was noticeably better. I haven't gone back and forth because I'm leaving it in just because it makes sense to. Plus I'm using my toslink out to my MSB dac for my sub amp. 

IMO, ANY of the SPDIF/optical digital inputs on the Gungnir are very good.


----------



## Loko-Pillo

I'm sure this is a very silly question.
   
  But, where the hell is the optical output on the macbook pro!?
   
  Is it the headphone out?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





loko-pillo said:


> I'm sure this is a very silly question.
> 
> But, where the hell is the optical output on the macbook pro!?
> 
> Is it the headphone out?


 
  Yes.


----------



## Loko-Pillo

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Yes.


 
  Thanks!


----------



## Yorke1

You need a special cable though, right?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





yorke1 said:


> You need a special cable though, right?


 
  You need a toslink cable.


----------



## livewire

To clarify - a toslink cable with a 1/8" male connector on one end that will fit into your mac's headphone jack
  and the other end with the squarish male plug that fits into the jack on the backside of the DAC.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





livewire said:


> To clarify - a toslink cable with a 1/8" male connector on one end that will fit into your mac's headphone jack
> and the other end with the squarish male plug that fits into the jack on the backside of the DAC.


 
  Sorry, yea, you'll just want toslink to miniplug (toslink).
   
  Or a toslink cable and then a toslink 3.5mm mini adapter.


----------



## Yorke1

Do you guys know if there is a location in the PNW where someone can listen to Schiit amps / dacs?


----------



## earwaxxer

yorke1 said:


> Do you guys know if there is a location in the PNW where someone can listen to Schiit amps / dacs?




You should really trial one in your home. I dont think you will beable to appreciate the subtitles that such equipment offers until/unless you swap component 'A' for component 'B'. Too many other variables in listening to a piece in an entirely different system. 

I know, I hate to send stuff back as well! The only piece of equipment that I had to send back was a Musical Fidelity V-DAC. The original. Just couldnt like it.


----------



## JMelvin

Hi guys .. first post. 
   
  I've been considering an upgrade recently and found this thread after searching for info on the Gungnir. I've been a happy Bifrost user for almost a year now but wondered if the Gungnir would be a significant enough upgrade to warrant the expense. After reading the entire thread I thought I'd briefly share my experience with the screeching issue. I'd say it started about a month after I took delivery of the Bifrost. I exchanged emails with Schiit, Jason actually (to my surprise). Simply changing ports seemed to solve the problem for me although it would still occasionally happen. I haven't thought of this in a while because in the meantime I purchased a SOtM converter, loved what it has added to the equation, and haven't used the Bifrost USB connection since.
   
  What struck me as I read this thread was the idea that the screeching issue might be also cable related. I say this because I experienced screeching with my Tranquility DAC as well. The cable I was using at that time (and no longer use) was the Essential USB Cable. I used this cable when I first purchased the Bifrost as well. I no longer use it simply because I felt it was too heavy and rigid. It seemed to stress the ports .. perhaps it didn't, I just didn't like it for that reason. Even more important, there was no change in SQ in my system with it either. I've also swapped the Tranquility for the Bifrost several times & used a generic USB cable without issue. 
   
  So what does this mean to me? Seems this screeching _could_ have something to do with the cable. I'm not an engineer so it's beyond me. My experience does show the issue in 2 different DACs from 2 different manufacturers so unless they use the same boards ...
   
  For the record, I think dB Audio Labs make some excellent products and intend on keeping my Tranquility well into the future. I do like a NOS DAC. 
   
  Here's my gear:
   
  Mac Mini 2010 using Audirvana Plus
  Bifrost w/USB
  SOtM dX-USB HD converter
  SOtM mBPS-d2s battery ps
  Odyssey Cyclops Extreme/SE Integrated (w/ps upgrade)
  Mark & Daniel Ruby loudspeakers
  Better Cables ICs and speaker cables
  Monster coax cable
  generic USB cable


----------



## turboglo

Quote: 





yorke1 said:


> Do you guys know if there is a location in the PNW where someone can listen to Schiit amps / dacs?


 
  I live in Portland. I have the Gungnir only. Would be happy to host a listening session.


----------



## rwelles

Quote: 





jmelvin said:


> Hi guys .. first post.
> 
> I've been considering an upgrade recently and found this thread after searching for info on the Gungnir. I've been a happy Bifrost user for almost a year now but wondered if the Gungnir would be a significant enough upgrade to warrant the expense. After reading the entire thread I thought I'd briefly share my experience with the screeching issue. I'd say it started about a month after I took delivery of the Bifrost. I exchanged emails with Schiit, Jason actually (to my surprise). Simply changing ports seemed to solve the problem for me although it would still occasionally happen. I haven't thought of this in a while because in the meantime I purchased a SOtM converter, loved what it has added to the equation, and haven't used the Bifrost USB connection since.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I switched form a heavy "audiophile" USB cable to a generic cable about 3 weeks ago. This morning, the screech returned. I tend to doubt it's the cable. I'd used the previous cable for several months with a different DAC without any incident. I've emailed Schiit for an RMA number to get the USB board swapped out.
   
  This is a very difficult issue to troubleshoot or isolate because it is so intermittent. I can go weeks without it screeching. Then it can happen several times within an hour. When the Gungnir behaves, I love the SQ. When it doesn't, it feels like someone is jabbing an icepick in my ear. I sure hope they are able to uncover the root cause.


----------



## JMelvin

Quote: 





rwelles said:


> I switched form a heavy "audiophile" USB cable to a generic cable about 3 weeks ago. This morning, the screech returned. I tend to doubt it's the cable. I'd used the previous cable for several months with a different DAC without any incident. I've emailed Schiit for an RMA number to get the USB board swapped out.
> 
> This is a very difficult issue to troubleshoot or isolate because it is so intermittent. I can go weeks without it screeching. Then it can happen several times within an hour. When the Gungnir behaves, I love the SQ. When it doesn't, it feels like someone is jabbing an icepick in my ear. I sure hope they are able to uncover the root cause.


 
  Interesting .. makes me wonder (again) if it's one of the USB ports on my Mac Mini.


----------



## rwelles

Quote: 





jmelvin said:


> Interesting .. makes me wonder (again) if it's one of the USB ports on my Mac Mini.


 
   
  It is considered a best practice to have a USB DAC on its own high-speed bus. It should not be shared with other devices, _esp. hard drives_.
   
  To verify this on a Mac, hold down the Option key, click on the Apple logo in the upper-left corner of the screen, and select "System Information..." Then select "USB" in the left column. If your DAC is turned on, it should show up. I've attached a screen shot from my Mac Pro as an example. 
   
  Based solely on my personal experience (your mileage may vary), the root cause of the "screech" issue lies within the Schiit USB board. But,again, that's just me...


----------



## Solude

Quote: 





rwelles said:


> Based solely on my personal experience (your mileage may vary), the root cause of the "screech" issue lies within *the C-Media chipset*.


 
  Fixed


----------



## earwaxxer

rwelles said:


> It is considered a best practice to have a USB DAC on its own high-speed bus. It should not be shared with other devices, _esp. hard drives_.
> 
> To verify this on a Mac, hold down the Option key, click on the Apple logo in the upper-left corner of the screen, and select "System Information..." Then select "USB" in the left column. If your DAC is turned on, it should show up. I've attached a screen shot from my Mac Pro as an example.
> 
> ...




That makes a lot of sense. I guess the same would hold true for a PC. My question would be, on a Windows laptop, are all the USB ports shared?


----------



## Solude

Typically each 'stack' is a separate hub.


----------



## JMelvin

Quote: 





rwelles said:


> It is considered a best practice to have a USB DAC on its own high-speed bus. It should not be shared with other devices, _esp. hard drives_.
> 
> To verify this on a Mac, hold down the Option key, click on the Apple logo in the upper-left corner of the screen, and select "System Information..." Then select "USB" in the left column. If your DAC is turned on, it should show up. I've attached a screen shot from my Mac Pro as an example.
> 
> Based solely on my personal experience (your mileage may vary), the root cause of the "screech" issue lies within the Schiit USB board. But,again, that's just me...


 
   
  It is a good practice and I've done so for the past couple of years.


----------



## crossjeremiah

before i go and buy the toslink cable is this the toslink cable on my pc.
  i'm thinkin of switching my order from the usb one to the non usb . cause i keep hearing bad things about the usb.


----------



## wuwhere

crossjeremiah said:


> before i go and buy the toslink cable is this the toslink cable on my pc.
> i'm thinkin of switching my order from the usb one to the non usb . cause i keep hearing bad things about the usb.




Yes, that's the output. The toslink cable looks like this.


----------



## crossjeremiah

do you recommend me just get the model without the usb then. save like $100


----------



## wuwhere

If you're asking me, I can't answer that since I don't have a Gungnir. Perhaps one of the owners here can.


----------



## paradoxper

You should get what you want, firstly. Most reports are considering the USB good,
  but still the Toslink is favored.


----------



## wuwhere

Actually, my preference is neither USB nor toslink. I prefer coax.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Actually, my preference is neither USB nor toslink. I prefer coax.


 
  I think for PC users coax should be used. I've heard the coax through a 
  converter box and couldn't discern any difference between coax and toslink


----------



## crossjeremiah

so toslink it is. i've never used toslink before. always used to usb. right now i'm using a ibasso D7 with SinglePower mpx 3 tube amp for my lcd2 setup. I'm thinking Gungnir would be a good step up. I did order a gungnir last night and i'm going to ask to get the one without usb . and save $100


----------



## wuwhere

Coax tend to have lower jitter than toslink but toslink is immune to rfi and emi. As long as you buy a good coax cable this should not be an issue.


----------



## crossjeremiah

i would have to buy a new sound card


----------



## wuwhere

I wouldn't if I were you. Just use toslink for now and save a $100. Get a good toslink cable. There should be recommendations in the cable forum.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

I have the non-USB Gungnir and am perfectly happy with toslink from my MacBook Pro. No regrets in going without the USB card.
   
  I use a Lifatec glass toslink cable. Be sure you get the correct terminations for your setup.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> I use a Lifatec glass toslink cable. Be sure you get the correct terminations for your setup.


 
  ^


----------



## crossjeremiah

I bought the TOSLINK / TOSLINK PREMIUM SILFLEX GLASS CABLES
with OPTISILK JACKETING 
   
   
  So I should be alright does anyone know how long they take to ship. i won't get the order shipped till dec 3 for the gungnir cause they on backorder


----------



## sensui123

I got the USB option as well...I prefer the digital out (using coax) from the PC.....but damn myself for checking this thread, just bought the same cable for my marantz cd player for the toslink for the gungnir lol.....


----------



## crossjeremiah

don't really feel like shelling out $100 more for sound card that has coax. honestly don't know what the difference between the optisilk and armored jacking toslink to toslink option. i think i'm going to be broke and be in 1,000s of debt if I don't get off this forum. past month bought $2,500 worth of audio equipment. also the customer service for schiit is awesome
  quote:
[size=11.0pt]I was having your Gungnir built tonight. I will let our board tech know to build yours without USB.  No need to reorder, I will make a note on your order.[/size]
   
[size=11.0pt]Alex Martin[/size]
[size=11.0pt]Operations Manager[/size]
[size=11.0pt]Schiit Audio[/size]
   
   
  pretty good people right there.


----------



## grokit

The USB option is for those that don't have coax/toslink, and don't want a separate box. Or for dumb@sses like me that want it for comparative or resale purposes.

It's better than most USB converters out there but not as good as some, subjectively and according to developing consensus.


----------



## crossjeremiah

Has anyone tried moonaudio blue dragon toslink cables?


----------



## earwaxxer

crossjeremiah said:


> Has anyone tried moonaudio blue dragon toslink cables?




One thing I noticed with my Gungnir, it appears to be relatively insensitive to toslink, coax, BNC. I tried all three. I'm now using a JPS Labs BNC from my Transporter. I could not tell the difference between coax and toslink, using a glass toslink. IMO, Schiit has the clock lock thing down on this thing. I wouldnt spend a bunch of bucks on a good cable. I'm not sure if I could put my finger on if/how the BNC bests the other two. I just use it because I sleep better at night!


----------



## turboglo

i'm using the $60 Silflex Toslink cable with a Mac Mini.
   
  Do some deep breathing, CJ. I know what it's like to spend more $$$ than I have on audio equipment. But you are getting an extremely high value in the Gungnir, IMO. I have a very high end system, and it sounds bloody fantastic. Sounds better in my system than a 5 year old reference CD player. I don't think you'll be needing to spend more money on a DAC for a long, long time.
   
  Just give it lots of time to settle in.


----------



## crossjeremiah

Thanks I have a ibasso d7 and its running with a triode tube amp . I have turn it up to 85% for good listening level. Should I buy a mjolnir or wait till I hear the gungnir with the tube amp


----------



## turboglo

I would wait just because I would be curious about how the Gungnir sounds paired with the triode amp. I have an ARS Sonum-Filarmonia driving a pair of Merlin Master VSM's. The Filarmonia is an integrated tube amp using  E34L Pentode output tubes. I like the combination of the Gungnir and the tube amp. What I have sounds like a synthesis of the best qualities of tubes and s/s.


----------



## grokit

The Gungnir sounds great with the balanced WA22 transformer-coupled tube amp.


----------



## crossjeremiah

I listen to alot of post-rock it drove my 250 hr burn in on my ibasso d7 but when I played with the new gungnir no burn in time. just a little grainy a first . but i thought to my self, this is what it would sound like at the actual concert then i'm starting to like it. but i'll let it time to burn


----------



## MoonUnit

I've had my Gungnir for about two weeks now. In short, I think it's fantastic... it's the best sigma-delta DAC I've ever heard. The sound doesn't jump out at you at first, but there's an ease and rightness to the sound that is addictive.
   
  It's less sensitive to sources than some other DACs, but I find that it is still somewhat source sensitive. Right now I'm running it from a 2011 Mac Mini's optical out through a DIY dejittering device based on the WM8804. I think this is better than the USB input, though the USB input is not bad. The sound does have a bit of glare directly out of the Mac Mini.


----------



## turboglo

I've had mine for a bit over a month now. It truly has continued to improve over this entire time. Seems like the process has been lots of increasingly good listening session, interrupted by some harsh sessions. But the overall arc is toward increasing effortlessness and ease. The coolest aspect has been increasing emergence of a kind of natural layered texture that good analogue will give you, but has often been elusive with digital.
   
  Recordings that I used to think were unlistenable are now listenable, even engaging. They're still not great recordings, but they don't hurt my ears.
   
  Guess what I'm saying is that you should hear a definite improvement during the 15 day audition period, especially if you keep it playing. But there's even more improvement after that. Keep us up to date on your own impressions.
   
  Oh, one more thing. My experience is that good DAC's are very sensitive to what's upstream. Audirvana and Pure Music have put out new versions this past week. Very noticeable improvements in SQ.


----------



## rwelles

There is a "bug" with the new version (1.88a) of Pure Music when using the NetSend feature. It keeps creating new broadcasts on the fly. The receiving computer loses connection with each new broadcast. They are aware of the issue.
   
  There is also an issue with iTunes 11 (link). It appears that Apple has changed the way iTunes deals with gapless albums. The info isn't consistent between the web resources I've checked, so I'm not positive of the details. In any case, Channel D is recommending that you not upgrade to iTunes 11.
   
  So I'm using PM 1.86a with iTunes 10.7. At least until things get sorted out.


----------



## plsvn

Quote: 





rwelles said:


> It appears that Apple has changed the way iTunes deals with gapless albums


 
   
  ... first thing I noticed in iTunes 11 is, in fact, that "Gapless Album" option has vanished from "file infos". but Audirvana+ seems to not care at all


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





plsvn said:


> ... first thing I noticed in iTunes 11 is, in fact, that "Gapless Album" option has vanished from "file infos". but Audirvana+ seems to not care at all


 
  I noticed that as well. It appears all iTunes tracks are now gapless by default.
   
  One neat trick I noticed is that if you use crossfade, it now only works when on shuffle or when using a playlist (genius or otherwise) and when playing songs in sequential order from a record, it plays them gapless. Just the way I want it


----------



## crossjeremiah

Figures that tube amps aren't my forte. Too smooth and romantic for me . The single power it self


----------



## plsvn

Quote: 





crossjeremiah said:


> Figures that tube amps aren't my forte. Too smooth and romantic for me . The single power it self


 
   
   
  ... yes: many tube amplifiers are smooth indeed, but... just the *bad* ones


----------



## doberman78

Hello!
  I'm Polish and I'm sorry for my english
  August also appear periodically in my problem with the noise. The longest lasted for about 30 minutes. I noticed that this has nothing to do with the used connection (I used a USB cable, coaxial and optical) If you have already occurred connectivity, the changes do not lead to improvement. It had the effect of your software (MacBook Pro, Audirvana, iTunes) The problem appeared after playing continuously for about 48 hours. Resigned after excluding DAC few minutes, then appeared sporadically after a few seconds. From about 3 weeks nothing alarming not happening. Maybe it's all a matter of Warm-up device?


----------



## plsvn

Hi everyone
   
  got a non-USB Gungnir yesterday (I'm one of the "lucky" ones who's Bifrost USB board sometimes "screeches" :-/ )
  I'll be using it with an Audiophilleo USB/SPDIF bridge (already on its way here from the USA) but in the while I have to use Toslink out from a MacMini
   
  question: instead of the usual "clicks" (when first track begins to play, on resolution changes and a few seconds after the end of last track) I hear a (nasty) "tac-tac" from my speakers :-/
   
  anyone else?
  thanks
   
   
  btw: apart from this... it sounds just great and it is a big step-up from the Bifrost 
  (just don't listen the first 30 minutes


----------



## Defiant00

plsvn said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> got a non-USB Gungnir yesterday (I'm one of the "lucky" ones who's Bifrost USB board sometimes "screeches" :-/ )
> I'll be using it with an Audiophilleo USB/SPDIF bridge (already on its way here from the USA) but in the while I have to use Toslink out from a MacMini
> ...




I believe you're the first one to report audible feedback through their speakers instead of just the relay click. I'd definitely get in touch with Schiit about that.


----------



## plsvn

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> I believe you're the first one to report audible feedback through their speakers instead of just the relay click. I'd definitely get in touch with Schiit about that.


 
  ... I know, I know: I'm always the lucky one =:-/
   
  thanks: I'm already in touch with the italian reseller I bought it from. but he didn't even know of *regular* clicks so...


----------



## plsvn

... ok... conquered my laziness and tried
  (both via Toslink, using Audirvana Plus and the very same tracks: a 24-88.2 and a 24-96 one)
   
  - Bifrost: mute relay clicks and anything but the music comes from the speakers
  - Gungnir: mute relay clicks (I was wrong on this) and I also hear "tac... tac" from the (right) speaker
   
  definitely a lemon!


----------



## Maxvla

Try a replacement from your dealer. Schiit has great service so don't worry if your dealer is a dunce.


----------



## plsvn

yes: monday I'll call and send this unit back :-/
   
  thanks


----------



## plsvn

update: today I also have a continuous "buzz" from the speakers
  disconnect the Gungnir, connect my Bifrost and buzzing disappears. reconnect this Gungnir... buzz is back (tried both RCA outs)
   
  unit is already back in its box and tomorrow goes back to reseller
  and I'm planning a visit to Lourdes for myself


----------



## earwaxxer

update....
   
  Just got some balanced cables from Blue Jeans Cables. Holly Shister! Patching the Gungnir to the the Emotiva over balanced is mucho grande! Took the tube preamp out of the picture. Using the Transporter as preamp. You HAVE to try the Gungnir over the balanced outputs. I was a non-believer in regard to balanced. No more!


----------



## earwaxxer

More info on the balanced outs on the Gungnir. I have got some feedback from others on the Emotiva site, and they DO NOT feel that the XPA-2 sounds noticably better through the balanced input.
   
  I guess I'm wondering if anyone has experienced sonic differences with the single ended vs. balanced outputs on the Gungnir?
   
  thanks much - Eric


----------



## plsvn

update 2: the italian reseller tested the replacement Gungnir (the last one he has in stock) before sending it to me and... had to turn it off immediately as only a very loud buzz was coming from the speakers :-/
   
  so... I pass on this one and I'll wait for the "reference".... keeping my fingers crossed


----------



## earwaxxer

Thats a bummer! Sounds like some quality control issues, or is this just a USB thing?


----------



## plsvn

I ordered, and got, a non-USB unit. the only available replacement, instead, was a USB one
   
  buzzing (on both) starts when playing begins, is still there when in pause and stops 2-3 seconds after quitting the player
  (plus, mine, also had the "pop" from right speaker on resolution changes)
   
  given I also have the "screeching" USB card on my Bifrost... I suspect Schiit stuff doesn't like Italy 
  (I purchased a non-USB Bifrost in the USA, the card afterwards here. the Bifrost itself works great)


----------



## grokit

plsvn said:


> I suspect Schiit stuff doesn't like Italy




Perhaps a voltage conversion issue?


----------



## dleblanc343

earwaxxer said:


> update....
> 
> Just got some balanced cables from Blue Jeans Cables. Holly Shister! Patching the Gungnir to the the Emotiva over balanced is mucho grande! Took the tube preamp out of the picture. Using the Transporter as preamp. You HAVE to try the Gungnir over the balanced outputs. I was a non-believer in regard to balanced. No more!




Wait what emotiva are you using? You're going from the gungnir direct into the amp without a preamp?


----------



## earwaxxer

Yep - I use the Transporter as a digital preamp. BNC to the Gungnir. The Gungnir direct to the power amp. I know, much said about digital attenuation. I upsample redbook to 24/96 with Sox so I dont notice any problems with loss of S/N ratio, dynamic range etc. Very happy, and surprised. Next step is to upgrade the balanced interconnect. I'm sure I can get some mileage out of that.


----------



## sachu

getting a code 10 error on the driver installation for the USB version of the DAC.
   
  ANyone else experiencgin this with their gungnir? OS is WIn 7 64 bit
   
  edit: got this sorted out.. was a stupid windows issue.


----------



## pelli

A few quick questions I was hoping to get some help with... 
   
   
  1) The BNC SPDiF uses the same digital signal as the RCA SPDiF, correct?
   
  2) If so, I can get a BNC to RCA cable or adapter and run a second RCA digital source to a Gungnir, correct?
   
  3) If the above are correct, anyone have any recommendations in the  <$50 range?
   
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## HeyWaj10

x2...any impressions from W4S dac owners?
   
  Quote: 





solude said:


> Audiolab has always been Schiit like in delivering high value, no nonsense products so its not surprising that the two are neck and neck.
> 
> Any impressions from W4S DAC-2 owners?


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





pelli said:


> A few quick questions I was hoping to get some help with...
> 
> 
> 1) The BNC SPDiF uses the same digital signal as the RCA SPDiF, correct?
> ...


 
   
   
  I decided to go straight to the source (no pun intended)...  According to Jason over at Schiit, the digital signal through BNC is identical to the RCA digital.  A BNC to RCA adaptor/cable can allow for a second RCA SPDIF input into the Gungnir.  I figured I would post this in case anyone was wondering or is looking for this info in the future...
   
  Cheers!


----------



## earwaxxer

The whole point of going BNC is that it can comply with 75ohm, and RCA mostly cannot! No other difference.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





earwaxxer said:


> Yep - I use the Transporter as a digital preamp. BNC to the Gungnir. The Gungnir direct to the power amp. I know, much said about digital attenuation. I upsample redbook to 24/96 with Sox so I dont notice any problems with loss of S/N ratio, dynamic range etc. Very happy, and surprised. Next step is to upgrade the balanced interconnect. I'm sure I can get some mileage out of that.


 
   
   
  Wow maybe the new XDA-2 would work better as a pre amp?


----------



## gakaudio

Hello, the Gungnir is one of the DAC's I'm considering. I plan to go USB out from my computer to the DAC. I will use single ended at first from the DAC but want balanced capability as a potential upgrade path. I am considering Musical fidelity M1, Audio-GD Ref 5.32, Audio-gd NFB-1.32 , and Yulong Sabre D18. I would love to hear comparisons between these DAC's and the Gungnir if anyone has had them in their system. Thanks, Garth


----------



## Loko-Pillo

Well, I have this problem!
   
  What did you do?


----------



## Loko-Pillo

^
    
  Quote:


sachu said:


> getting a code 10 error on the driver installation for the USB version of the DAC.
> 
> ANyone else experiencgin this with their gungnir? OS is WIn 7 64 bit
> 
> edit: got this sorted out.. was a stupid windows issue.


----------



## jronan2

I ordered the gungnir and mjolnir on december 3rd, going on a month now. Anyone else patiently waiting for them to come out of backorder? The wait wasn't that bad at first but now with the crazy holidays over I really want my Schiit.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> I ordered the gungnir and mjolnir on december 3rd, going on a month now. Anyone else patiently waiting for them to come out of backorder? The wait wasn't that bad at first but now with the crazy holidays over I really want my Schiit.


 
  Orders won't ship until the end of December. Per Schiit's website. Give in 1-2 weeks.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

jronan2 said:


> I ordered the gungnir and mjolnir on december 3rd, going on a month now. Anyone else patiently waiting for them to come out of backorder? The wait wasn't that bad at first but now with the crazy holidays over I really want my Schiit.




I feel you, I've been checking the status on the website nearly every morning recently. My current setup iphone->lcd3. Needless to say I'm ready for the mjolnir/gungnir combo to ship out


----------



## zachchen1996

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> My current setup iphone->lcd3.


 
  oh my......
   
   
   
   
  hope you get that schiit stack soon!


----------



## elwappo99

dailydoseofdaly said:


> I feel you, I've been checking the status on the website nearly every morning recently. My current setup iphone->lcd3. Needless to say I'm ready for the mjolnir/gungnir combo to ship out




I don't know why you're impatient. Seems like your current set up should be fine


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

elwappo99 said:


> I don't know why you're impatient. Seems like your current set up should be fine




Yeah it's ok,but your right about that impatient part


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Yeah it's ok,but your right about that impatient part


 
   
  You'll understand how much of a joke I was making when you finally get that pair. You'll be a world of bliss.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

elwappo99 said:


> You'll understand how much of a joke I was making when you finally get that pair. You'll be a world of bliss.



I like this!

However totally not helping my patience issue


----------



## jronan2

Yeah I forgot to mention that I also bought a pair or LCD 3's, ordered Sunday, gonna be at my door on Thursday. That's probably another reason I'm getting really anxious. I'm anxious to find out about the next level of Schiit since I have and used all of their products, and I'm especially anxious the difference between the LCD 2 and LCD 3. Hopefully I get to do all this in another week or so.


----------



## Girls Generation

Not much to be anxious about imo.
  Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Yeah I forgot to mention that I also bought a pair or LCD 3's, ordered Sunday, gonna be at my door on Thursday. That's probably another reason I'm getting really anxious. I'm anxious to find out about the next level of Schiit since I have and used all of their products, and *I'm especially anxious the difference between the LCD 2 and LCD 3*. Hopefully I get to do all this in another week or so.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Yeah I forgot to mention that I also bought a pair or LCD 3's, ordered Sunday, gonna be at my door on Thursday. That's probably another reason I'm getting really anxious. I'm anxious to find out about the next level of Schiit since I have and used all of their products, and I'm especially anxious the difference between the LCD 2 and LCD 3. Hopefully I get to do all this in another week or so.


 
   
  Quote: 





girls generation said:


> Not much to be anxious about imo.


 
   
  Ouch, that's just cold


----------



## Pudu

dailydoseofdaly said:


> ... My current setup iphone->lcd3. Needless to say I'm ready for the mjolnir/gungnir combo to ship out




Apologies for the schadenfreude, but that part was great. Thanks for the good chuckle.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I feel you, I've been checking the status on the website nearly every morning recently. My current setup iphone->lcd3. Needless to say I'm ready for the mjolnir/gungnir combo to ship out


 
   
  Haha, ouch, didn't realize you sold your previous setup before the Mjolnir/Gungnir arrived. I suppose that'll make the difference a bit more obvious though when they do get there though.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

defiant00 said:


> Haha, ouch, didn't realize you sold your previous setup before the Mjolnir/Gungnir arrived. I suppose that'll make the difference a bit more obvious though when they do get there though.




Yeah the previous setup funded the new combo but it should be in for the Charlotte meet on the 20th I hope. Then we can have a all solid state schiit combo throw down, magni/modi vs asgard/bifrost vs mjolnir/gungnir.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Yeah the previous setup funded the new combo but it should be in for the Charlotte meet on the 20th I hope. Then we can have a all solid state schiit combo throw down, magni/modi vs asgard/bifrost vs mjolnir/gungnir.


 
   
  That'll be some good fun, although I expect to then end up wanting to save for Mjolnir/Gungnir. The Magni and Modi have turned out to be quite impressive though.


----------



## Jon Snow

jronan2 said:


> I ordered the gungnir and mjolnir on december 3rd, going on a month now. Anyone else patiently waiting for them to come out of backorder? The wait wasn't that bad at first but now with the crazy holidays over I really want my Schiit.




I'm waiting too. It's a little frustrating. Ordered a Gungnir on 12-06.


----------



## jronan2

Did you end up contacting Schiit during the wait? With the wait time for me I asked if they could add the usb option after some thought so if I needed to use the gungnir with my macbook air I could. They told me hoping to ship in about 10 days, and that was 12/26. I expect it to be more than that tho.


----------



## Jon Snow

jronan2 said:


> Did you end up contacting Schiit during the wait? With the wait time for me I asked if they could add the usb option after some thought so if I needed to use the gungnir with my macbook air I could. They told me hoping to ship in about 10 days, and that was 12/26. I expect it to be more than that tho.




I did contact them and was told they were looking at the end of December for shipment. At the time I placed my order, the Schiit website stated an estimated shipping date of 12-10, IIRC. My guess is that the production of the new DAC and amp recently released bumped the production of our orders back a bit. 

Thanks for relaying the updated shipping estimate.


----------



## Audiolic

that suck, i wanted to buy one but now I think i'll go with musical paradise mp-d1... 
   
  I really wish somebody could compare those two... 
   
  I really like the idea of having all tube analog stage with the ak4399... since ak4399 i found that the bifrost was missing a little in the midrange against CS4398 dac... 
   
  but i wonder how good the analog stage, power, clock and reclocker is in the gungnir against that mp-d1... 
   
  wish somebody could compare both in a real true fight !!


----------



## paradoxper

What's the rest of your chain look like?


----------



## Barry S

audiolic said:


> that suck, i wanted to buy one but now I think i'll go with musical paradise mp-d1...
> 
> I really wish somebody could compare those two...
> 
> ...




I don't quite get tube DACs. It seems like the ideal DAC should be as detailed and transparent as possible, so you can tailor the output using an amp stage and leave your future options open. The Gungnir is very transparent and nicely detailed and feeds a clean source to my Mjolnir and Lyr. The VCXOs lock onto even my flakey ipad like the tractor beam on the Death Star. If I want some tubey warmth, I'll listen to the Lyr. If I want something even warmer, I'll tube roll the Lyr. I value the Mjolnir for it's energetic detailed presentation; I sure don't want to feed it a warm less-detailed signal and have those dynamics applied to anything less than the cleanest source I can find.

Skylab's Innerfidelity review of the MP-D1 damns it with faint praise, calling it lush and warm, but less detailed than the Bifrost. Not sure why everything you want in the signal chain needs to be shoehorned into the DAC stage.


----------



## zachchen1996

Quote: 





barry s said:


> I don't quite get tube DACs. It seems like the ideal DAC should be as detailed and transparent as possible, so you can tailor the output using an amp stage and leave your future options open.


 
  Completely agree with this, warmth and coloration should definitely happen with the amp and headphones not the dac.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





zachchen1996 said:


> Completely agree with this, warmth and coloration should definitely happen with the amp and headphones not the dac.


 
  Have you heard the EE MiniMax DAC? One of the only experiences
  where I found the coloration rather enjoyable.


----------



## Audiolic

Koss ESP-950 and planing to buy Eminent Technology LFT-16a with planar midrange  from 250hz to 7.5khz.. 
   
  i like fast, clear, creamy but well balanced, analog sound with great imaging and good 3d soundstage not to big..


----------



## Audiolic

Quote: 





audiolic said:


> Koss ESP-950 and planing to buy Eminent Technology LFT-16a with planar midrange  from 250hz to 7.5khz..
> 
> i like fast, clear, creamy but well balanced, analog sound with great imaging and good 3d soundstage not to big..


 
   
  Not sure about the speaker amplifier.. looking in the 500$ range i would say..


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





audiolic said:


> Koss ESP-950 and planing to buy Eminent Technology LFT-16a with planar midrange  from 250hz to 7.5khz..
> 
> i like fast, clear, creamy but well balanced, analog sound with great imaging and good 3d soundstage not to big..


 
   
  the Gungnir will be the better DAC if you're looking for transparent and detailed (not thin sounding at all), with a good bottom end. But the D1 might be suited to your taste if your're looking for warmth.
   
  I would just worry about being too warm and muddying things.


----------



## AlphaChicken

Hey guys I have been reading through this thread for the last few hours. I have been looking at purchasing the Gungnir and Mjolnir. I almost have enough money saved up to buy what I would need.
   
  There is a lot of good information here. It has left me with some questions though. I plan on feeding the DAC in two different ways. One is from my Macbook Pro with USB, the second way is from my desktop PC using SPDIF out (either optical or coaxial) from my HT Omega Claro+ sound card.
   
  So I read in this thread somewhat early on that the USB input on the Gungnir does not sound as good as the other inputs. Read in bold below.
   
    
  Quote:


sourceguy said:


> At about 85 hours right now. *The optical out on my new MacBook is sounding better than the USB out. I've been switching back and forth with pure music set to upsample only to 96 w/ USB so it's an even comparison. Maybe it's my setup but the USB is too edgy.... I keep wanting to turn the volume down. The optical on the other hand is much more involving. It's pretty incredible.*
> Would a USB to spdif converter out-do the optical out on the MacBook when using pure music with the Gungnir?


 
   
  Quote:


grokit said:


> Yes it's early, and most of us are aware that there are limitations to these kind of comparisons; I am not employing DBT techniques, yadda yadda. But *I will say that I am firmly on the side of the USB input being less appealing than the Gungnir's other inputs, and accordingly less capable than the USB to Spdif converters that I am auditioning with it.*


 
   
  So my first question is, in order to get audio from my Macbook Pro to the Gungnir whether I should get a USB to SPDIF converter and skip out on buying the USB card from Schitt. It seems like converting from USB to SPDIF and then having the DAC convert that digital signal to analog could introduce more potential for degradation of audio quality. Obviously I do not want to spend too much on the USB to SPDIF converter as the Gungnir is only 750 bucks.
   
  My next question is what exactly the "buy better gear light" means as referenced in bold in the quote below. Is the Adapticlock something that is specifically part of the purchased USB add-on for the Gungnir? Does this mean that "source" as referenced below means USB sources only?
   
  From the reading that I have been doing it seems to generally be a bad strategy to buy a USB to SPDIF converter if the DAC already has an integrated USB input option. However, I only read this in reference to a lot more expensive DACs. Thoughts on what the best strategy for feeding audio to the Gungnir from a computer that only has USB as an option for digital output? Schitt's USB module or a USB to SPDIF converter?
   
  The converter I've been looking at is the MF V-Link192. Is there a better option for under 250 bucks?
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> All I can share is my experience, as I have tried a couple of mid-fi converters as well as a cheap one with three different DACs, and I experienced three different results:
> 
> 
> With the Bel Canto DAC2, a converter is required as it only has coax and toslink inputs. But the DAC2 has a rock-solid master clock, and as its [size=x-small]asynchronous sample rate converter[/size] upsamples it takes care of jitter. According to one reviewer, it "[size=x-small]employs the latest SPDIF receiver technology and a dual PLL reference clock recovery scheme using both analog and FIFO-based digital phase-lock circuitry for the lowest possible jitter performance. A local crystal oscillator drives the DAC directly.[/size]" There was no benefit to using my Firestone Bravo 24/96 Tenor TE0722-based converter with separate Supplier PSU, as it didn't sound any better than an inexpensive eBay 16/48 Burr-Brown PCM2902E-based USB-powered converter.
> ...


 
   
  My last question is in regards to audio from my PC. I have an HT Omega Claro+ sound card. It has SPDIF optical and coaxial outputs @ 24bit/192kHz. Will this work well for feeding audio from my desktop to the Gungnir? Does the soundcard affect how the digital outputs sound? 
   
  What is the most optimal way to feed digital files to the Gungnir? The only one I am aware of is through USB or a desktop soundcard with SPDIF out options. I have read about people doing this in other ways but I dont really understand them.
   
  I'm really loving the positive responses that the Gungnir and Mjolnir are getting, especially for their price. I'm hoping that I can manage to integrate them into my system because they sound facking awesome.


----------



## Audiolic

The dac-s from APL HIFI is supossely one of the best dac on the planet if not the best.. and the analog stage is similar to mp-d1 but it use 12 per channel AK4399 dac chip instead of one for mp-d1...
   
http://www.aplhifi.com/index.php?op=DAC_S
   
  of course there is also passive stepped attenuator and crazy clocking but still
   
  I think some like tube output stage better than jfet.. but i wonder.. i guess only direct comparaison could do it
   
  (sorry it actually use [size=13.142857551574707px] Lundahl Amorphous Core audio transformers for output stage[/size]


----------



## Audiolic

What do you think of Parasound A23 amp to power the eminent tech lft-16a?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





alphachicken said:


> Hey guys I have been reading through this thread for the last few hours. I have been looking at purchasing the Gungnir and Mjolnir. I almost have enough money saved up to buy what I would need.
> 
> There is a lot of good information here. It has left me with some questions though. I plan on feeding the DAC in two different ways. One is from my Macbook Pro with USB, the second way is from my desktop PC using SPDIF out (either optical or coaxial) from my HT Omega Claro+ sound card.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  After I re-compared, the difference was still there; the USB input is good but not as good as the Gungnir's other three spdif inputs. The difference is pretty subtle however.
   
  The V192 matches up well with the Gungnir but makes me wish for an AES/EBU input as I mentioned. A decent spdif RCA coax cable that offers tight, solid connections to both devices is a must.
   
  Also, _your Macbook Pro has a combo audio output jack_; it is both analog 3.5mm headphone and Mini-Toslink (spdif optical). If it was me I would use the coax from the PC, and the optical from the Mac. The Gungnir's USB input is still worth it for comparison's sake, and for "guest" source devices but you don't really need it.
   
  In most cases, the "buy better gear light" will not light up, but it's nice to have just in case.
   
  IME, IMO, etc etc.


----------



## AlphaChicken

Quote: 





grokit said:


> After I re-compared, the difference was still there; the USB input is good but not as good as the Gungnir's other three spdif inputs. The difference is pretty subtle however.
> 
> The V192 matches up well with the Gungnir but makes me wish for an AES/EBU input as I mentioned. A decent spdif RCA coax cable that offers tight, solid connections to both devices is a must.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for your reply man. I'm not sure if my Macbook Pro has that capability. Its generation 4,1. 
   
  NVM I looked it up just now and it says the headphone jack doubles as an optical out! Well ****...I never knew that. How do I implement the optical out? Does it just work automatically when I plug in a mini toslink cable or are there settings I need to set for it to work? Suggestions on a high quality mini toslink cable?
   
  Does the quality of the macbook pro's soundcard matter with the mini toslink or with digital audio in general? And do the digital outputs of soundcards color the sound?
   
  Does the buy better gear light pertain to just USB or all inputs?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





audiolic said:


> What do you think of Parasound A23 amp to power the eminent tech lft-16a?


 
  Parasound makes solid products, however I've had no experience with the A23. I'd surmise it would be fine (even more power than needed).


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





alphachicken said:


> Thanks for your reply man. I'm not sure if my Macbook Pro has that capability. Its generation 4,1.
> 
> NVM I looked it up just now and it says the headphone jack doubles as an optical out! Well ****...I never knew that. How do I implement the optical out? Does it just work automatically when I plug in a mini toslink cable or are there settings I need to set for it to work? Suggestions on a high quality mini toslink cable?
> 
> ...


 
  Toslink requires no setup. However the Audio MIDI is there to specify settings if needed.
   
  Many use the Silflex glass toslink. There are many options.
   
  If you're using an external DAC to bypass it all it doesn't matter.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  On your Mac, you will be able to easily select the correct output in Sound Preferences, and Audio Midi Setup is there in case you need to tweak further.
   
  I would not worry about coloration, the main quality issue when doing USB to spdif conversion is jitter (timing errors).


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





alphachicken said:


> Thanks for your reply man. I'm not sure if my Macbook Pro has that capability. Its generation 4,1.
> 
> NVM I looked it up just now and it says the headphone jack doubles as an optical out! Well ****...I never knew that. How do I implement the optical out? Does it just work automatically when I plug in a mini toslink cable or are there settings I need to set for it to work? Suggestions on a high quality mini toslink cable?
> 
> ...


 
  Hi,
  I use a MB Pro S/PDIF optical to a Schiit Bifrost.
  I bought this little right angle swivel adapter that allows use of a vanilla Toslink cable.
  I gets the cable out of the way and is nice for a MB Pro.
  Does it degrade the signal..... I can't tell. It sounds good to me.
  Common sense tells my straight is better than right angle... but the cable doesn't get whacked on a laptop.
   
  On my stationary Mac Mini in the closet for the room system I use a straight cable.
   
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002J24OO/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





alphachicken said:


> Thanks for your reply man. I'm not sure if my Macbook Pro has that capability. Its generation 4,1.
> 
> NVM I looked it up just now and it says the headphone jack doubles as an optical out! Well ****...I never knew that. How do I implement the optical out? Does it just work automatically when I plug in a mini toslink cable or are there settings I need to set for it to work? Suggestions on a high quality mini toslink cable?
> 
> ...


 
  I don''t know if this was covered.
  USB let's you clock up to 192kHz
  S/PDIF optical is 96kHz max.
   
  Does it matter?
   
  IMO no.
  I ...me.. I can't tell the difference between 96 flac source and 192 flac source.  Plus 96 flac content costs less.
  Can you play 192 kHz flac over optical Toslink?  Yes.  The DAC will down sample  192 to 96.


----------



## Iamnothim

I came here to research Gungnir vs Bifrost.
   
  I have a Lyr / Bifrost w/o USB.  
   
  I need another setup.
  I ordered the Lyr / Bifrost w/ USB
  They're backordered.
   
  Thinking.... do I cxl the Bifrost and get the Gungnir ?
  LCD2 rev 2 cans.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I came here to research Gungnir vs Bifrost.
> 
> I have a Lyr / Bifrost w/o USB.
> 
> ...


 
  Interesting dilemma. I found the Gungnir to be a considerable step up from Bifrost.
  However this was running out of a fully balanced setup. I too would be interested
  in hearing how the Gungnir and Lyr pair together.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Interesting dilemma. I found the Gungnir to be a considerable step up from Bifrost.
> However this was running out of a fully balanced setup. I too would be interested
> in hearing how the Gungnir and Lyr pair together.


 
  Like other audio component and accessories (that shall not be mentioned in this thread)  discussions, I have a difficult time
  believing one digital processor can sound better than another.  Bits is bits.  If you have enough horsepower to drive data over an interface, you are good to go.
   
  That said DAC has the word analog in it, so I guess that would be where the rubber meets the road.
   
  Obviously I can't run balanced and I have no intention of giving up my tube addiction even if something else sounds better.
  If I were to have a balanced amp, that would make sense.  So it's clock lock and perhaps better analog outputs than the Bifrost has.


----------



## grokit

Those right-angle adapters work surprisingly well, they're pretty simple just a mirror inside.


----------



## Barry S

iamnothim said:


> I came here to research Gungnir vs Bifrost.
> 
> I have a Lyr / Bifrost w/o USB.
> 
> ...




I haven't had a chance to listen to the Bifrost, but the Gungnir is a significant step up from the Modi as an source for the Lyr and the LCD2s. Overall, the Gungnir>Lyr> LCD2.2 is a great system, emphasizing the dark and warm character of the LCD2.2, whole providing very good detail and air. The Mjolnir takes things to another level with the LCD2.2, so if it might be in your future, the Gungnir would be a good step. If you don't want to breed any discontent, it may be best to stick with the Bifrost/Lyr, since you already like it.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





alphachicken said:


> ...
> 
> Does the buy better gear light pertain to just USB or all inputs?


 
   
  Pretty sure it applies to all inputs _but_ USB.


----------



## Barry S

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> Pretty sure it applies to all inputs _but_ USB.


 

 It's all inputs--including USB.  I occasionally get it when first hooking up to my ipad via USB, but reconnecting always allows the VCXOs to lock.


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Hi,
> I use a MB Pro S/PDIF optical to a Schiit Bifrost.
> I bought this little right angle swivel adapter that allows use of a vanilla Toslink cable.
> I gets the cable out of the way and is nice for a MB Pro.
> ...


 
   
  It's digital, so it either works or doesn't.  In the computer network business that I'm in, these data rates are low and the distances short.  We monitor the BER (bit error rate) on links and if we see ANY errors "it's broken."  It would be nice if the S/PDIF input processing had an error counter/light.  Replace cable if it blinks.
   
  Lot's of interesting stuff to learn here:  http://www.hardwarebook.info/S/PDIF
   
  One thing that jumped out is that toslink uses cheesy plastic fiber and visible red light and is limited to 10meters.
  All a nice glass fiber should do is give you distance - less attenuation.  Jitter is solely a function of the electronics, not the cable.
   
  So, a question:  Does anyone know which MACs support S/PDIF(toslink) > 96 Khz?
   
  There was a comment earlier about not caring about > 96Khz, but if the original source is > 96k, then the biggest sound quality hit will be the down sampling from the higher rate to the lower.
   
  Cheers - Frank


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





barry s said:


> It's all inputs--including USB.  I occasionally get it when first hooking up to my ipad via USB, but reconnecting always allows the VCXOs to lock.


 
   
  Ah neat, didn't know that.


----------



## Iamnothim

Great stuff guys.  Thanks for the replies.
 Rather than make a bunch of quoted replies, I'll aggregate my thoughts / opinions / queries into one post.
  
 1) I've got, pretty much, the newest MacBook Pro.  15" Retina, 2.6 GHz, Core i7. The optical S/PDIF will not clock above 96kHz.
  
 2) Yup.  Toslink optical uses crap plastic fiber and a low power laser. 
  Why?  Probably cost, engineering, and, maybe, not wanting a consumer product with a more powerful laser.
 Standardized Commercial F.O. interfaces (eg. Cisco) use ST, SC, and other derivations to terminate 50 micron multimode F.O. glass.  The lasers are quite powerful and the distances are much greater.  Single mode fiber distances are far greater and much faster. Using 50 micron mm fiber would be cost prohibitive to consumer electronics.  I do not know if any devices, with optical S/PDIF interfaces, Macs, PC's, DAC's, or pre-amps, can clock faster than 96kHz.  Is it a standards limitation?  That would be good to know…. I haven't gone to Wiki. 
  
 3)Downsampling.  Agreed, no doubt. Any added process to the delivery adds complexity and potentially degrades the music quality.  My comment / opinion is that A) It does work. B) I personally can't distinguish between 96kHz and 192kHz sources and C) 96kHz sources, at least on HD Tracks, are less expensive.  So if you use USB, cool, it'll redline at 192kHz.  If you use optical S/PDIF you're maxed at 96kHz but can at least listen to 192kHz content.  
  
 4)Right angle connectors.  Yup, I haven't had a problem.  It's good to know someone else uses them without a problem.
  
 5)Barry, That's the thing…. I'm happy with my Bifrost.  However my fear of loss is greater than my desire to gain.  Will my life be awful without a Gungnir ?


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Great stuff guys.  Thanks for the replies.
> Rather than make a bunch of quoted replies, I'll aggregate my thoughts / opinions / queries into one post.
> 
> 2) I do not know if any devices, with optical S/PDIF interfaces, Macs, PC's, DAC's, or pre-amps, can clock faster than 96kHz.  Is it a standards limitation?  That would be good to know…. I haven't gone to Wiki.


 
   
  It's a limitation of the current Mac implementation (meaning, Macs in general can go above 24/96, but that's what the combo jack implementation is limited to). S/PDIF is not limited to 24/96.


----------



## Barry S

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Iamnothim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ...5)Barry, That's the thing…. I'm happy with my Bifrost.  However my fear of loss is greater than my desire to gain.  Will my life be awful without a Gungnir ?


 
   
  I'd ask my therapist if I had one, but I decided head-fi is a less expensive alternative!


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> It's a limitation of the current Mac implementation (meaning, Macs in general can go above 24/96, but that's what the combo jack implementation is limited to). S/PDIF is not limited to 24/96.


 
  I thought the newer Mini would do > 96Khz?  The question is which models.  I'm surprised that the newest MacBook will not.  My 15" dual-core i5 model6,2 will not, and I've not tried on my 17" quad-i7 model 8,3.
   
  S/PDIF-toslink spec is to 768kHz


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





frankty said:


> I thought the newer Mini would do > 96Khz?  The question is which models.  I'm surprised that the newest MacBook will not.  My 15" dual-core i5 model6,2 will not, and I've not tried on my 17" quad-i7 model 8,3.
> 
> S/PDIF-toslink spec is to 768kHz


 
  Hold on....  I'm testing right now with my Mac Mini 2011 to a DAC Magic Pro and my MB Pro to my Bifrost.
  I'm using Amarra to tell the MAC's how to handle the clocks.  Core Audio or theDAC's
   
  I figured I better know for certain before I open my big yap.


----------



## Iamnothim

My Clocking Tests using:
   
*Amarra 2.4.5 *configures the clock source.  (DM+ or Core Audio).  Amarra supports a sample rate up to 384kHz  Apple Mac Mini early 2011  2.3GHz Intel Core i5 and MacBook Pro Retina.  2.6 GHz  Intel Core i7
   
  1.0) *USB*:  *Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus* to Mac* Mini*
   
      1.1)Amarra configured to use DM+ as clock source. Set to 192kHz. (MAX allowable rate)
      24 bit/192kHz HD source files and slower sample rates work great.  Clock auto adjusts to      match the source file.
   
     1.2)Amarra configured to use Mac Mini Core Audio as clock source. Set to 192kHz.
      24 bit/192kHz HD source files and slower sample rates work great. Clock auto adjusts to      match the source file.
   
  2.0) *S/PDIF* Optical:  _*Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus*_ to Mac *Mini*
     
     2.1)Amarra configured to use DM+ as clock source. Set to 96kHz. (MAX allowable rate)
     24 bit/192kHz HD source files and slower sample rates work great. Clock auto adjusts to match the source file.
  
    1.2)Amarra configured to use Mac Mini Core Audio as clock source. Set to 96kHz.
     24 bit/192kHz HD source files and slower sample rates work great.  Clock auto adjusts to match the source file.
  
  3.0) *S/PDIF Optical*:  *Schiit Bifrost* to *MacBook* Pro
   
      2.1)Amarra configured to use Bifrost as clock source. Set to 96kHz.  (MAX allowable rate)
      24 bit/192kHz HD source files and slower sample rates work great. Clock auto adjusts to match the source file.
   
     1.2)Amarra configured to use MacBook Pro Core Audio as clock source. Set to 96kHz.
      24 bit/192kHz HD source files and slower sample rates work great.  Clock auto adjusts to match the source file.
   
*My Findings:*
  Unlike using a DAC with a USB interface, (DM+), neither the DM+, Bifrost, Mac Mini, nor the MacBook Pro could configure the S/PDIF optical interface to clock faster than 96kHz.  All source files 192kHz and slower play nicely with all configurations.  It is my understanding that 178kHz files do not work.
   
*Frankty*.... Very interesting that the S/PDIF specification is 768kHz
   
  Read disclaimer below...


----------



## budget minded

OK... drooled over benchmark, havana, minimax & D18 until reading about units being too clinical or too warm at high prices, then decided i might get the bifrost as it has nice transparency but with low listener fatigue at half the price or less than the other $700+ units, but now think i might wait a little longer and go with the gungnir as "the last DAC i ever need". so what if the NAD & violectric sound a little better, they're more than a little bit more expensive too.
   
  the gungnir sounds like it strikes a nice balance between transparency and musicality, and as i'm listening to 5 1/4" 2 ways with my ports plugged, the extra bass weight of the gungnir sounds like a nice synergy and i don't like rolled off treble that softens metallic percussion either.. the popular yulong unit and even eastern electric just sound too warm & forgiving for my tastes. i like speed and detail.
   
  it would be nice if there were comparisons to the similarly priced yulong D-18 which uses the current rage ESS sabre chip just to help those considering that unit too, but in reading the reviews of the gungnir here, it sounds like it leans more towards detail and transparency which i find more enjoyable than overly romantic sound. with my new energy RC-10n speakers, i can clearly hear differences between my sony DVD player and panasonic internal DAC and prefer the latter's treble extension and pinpoint imaging over the sony's warmer and more diffuse sound, but a high end unit that has a little of each quality would be an even nicer balance, so my budget is now back up to the $750 that seems about necessary for "giant killing resolution". someone here poopooed on the idea of giant killing gear, but for those of us that can't rationalize spending $1,000 or even more insane amounts on gear, stuff that compares favorably at reasonable prices is what us cheapskates and poor folks need.
   
  i already have acceptable sound in my system, but would expect the difference between a highly regarded external DAC and one from a 5 years old or more japanese receiver or 10 year old DVD player to be dramatic as all of the contenders sound better than other externals which should all sound better than even current consumer electronics, in theory.
   
  this upgrade will be the first time i spend over $300 on any piece of gear.
   
  while i'm posting, is there any difference between the sound of the gungnir's RCA outs and the balanced outs converted to RCA? the yulong D-18 is supposed to sound better through it's balanced outs.


----------



## Maxvla

The reason for 178khz not working is because of a chipset limitation. Perhaps Schiit's new DAC will be free from this.


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> My Clocking Tests using:
> 
> *Amarra 2.4.5 *configures the clock source.  (DM+ or Core Audio).  Amarra supports a sample rate up to 384kHz  Apple Mac Mini early 2011  2.3GHz Intel Core i5 and MacBook Pro Retina.  2.6 GHz  Intel Core i7
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, it also says (I read *someplace* today) that there is no speed limit either. 
   
  Also, Jason Stoddard said to me in an email: "Unfortunately, Toslink is artificially limited to keep it safe for plastic fiber. Some Macs will output 24/192, some of them won't."
   
  Jason, which Macs do > 96kHz?  Hackery required?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





budget minded said:


> while i'm posting, is there any difference between the sound of the gungnir's RCA outs and the balanced outs converted to RCA? the yulong D-18 is supposed to sound better through it's balanced outs.


 
  There shouldn't be any difference between the RCA and XLR. Other than power.


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> The reason for 178khz not working is because of a chipset limitation. Perhaps Schiit's new DAC will be free from this.


 
   
  Jason also said this will be fixed "soon" - it's an issue with a board and some vendor device/ASIC that was supposed to work ...  It will do 192kHz but not 176.4Khz.
  And why is 176.4 important?  It's a multiple of 44.1/88.2 and it's what *might* be the native speed of an SACD.  So if you have a way to rip SACD to your NAS, then the DAC would need to support that rate or up/down convert to some other rate.  And yes, I do have some disks now at this speed!  These sound better with my Oppo BDP105 than with the DAC, because the Oppo will do 176.4
   
  Cheers - Frank


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> There shouldn't be any difference between the RCA and XLR. Other than power.


 
   
  My AMP (Wyred4sound STI-1000) has one set of balanced inputs and several RCA.  I *think* the balanced sound better, but I'm comparing apples to oranges.  I used to have the Bifrost on RCA inputs and the Oppo on balanced and if I A/B the same content, the Oppo sounded better (SACD vs rip of same).  Now I have the Oppo on RCA and the Gungnir on balanced and I think the DAC sounds better (unless the disk is encoded @ 176.4).  The Gungnir sounds better than the Bifrost for sure.  One of my back-burner projects is to add balanced inputs to my headphone amp (http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/linestages/ventus.aspx + http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/power/placid.aspx ) and listen with the Sennheiser HD800s.
   
  Frank


----------



## Stormfriend

Quote: 





frankty said:


> Jason also said this will be fixed "soon" - it's an issue with a board and some vendor device/ASIC that was supposed to work ...  It will do 192kHz but not 176.4Khz.
> And why is 176.4 important?  It's a multiple of 44.1/88.2 and it's what *might* be the native speed of an SACD.  So if you have a way to rip SACD to your NAS, then the DAC would need to support that rate or up/down convert to some other rate.  And yes, I do have some disks now at this speed!  These sound better with my Oppo BDP105 than with the DAC, because the Oppo will do 176.4
> 
> Cheers - Frank


 
   
  How do you find the Oppo 105 compared to the Gungnir at other sample rates, particularly 44.1?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





frankty said:


> My AMP (Wyred4sound STI-1000) has one set of balanced inputs and several RCA.  I *think* the balanced sound better, but I'm comparing apples to oranges.  I used to have the Bifrost on RCA inputs and the Oppo on balanced and if I A/B the same content, the Oppo sounded better (SACD vs rip of same).  Now I have the Oppo on RCA and the Gungnir on balanced and I think the DAC sounds better (unless the disk is encoded @ 176.4).  The Gungnir sounds better than the Bifrost for sure.  One of my back-burner projects is to add balanced inputs to my headphone amp (http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/linestages/ventus.aspx + http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/power/placid.aspx ) and listen with the Sennheiser HD800s.
> 
> Frank


 
  I actually agree with you. Bal sounds fuller to me. This is just where subjectivity takes off (same w/cables), etc.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> There shouldn't be any difference between the RCA and XLR. Other than power.


 
  Dox,
  That is good to know. My derstanding was a balanced interface could be driven further ( Concert Equipment) and was less susceptible to interference.
   
  Right now my room system has a problem using the XLR interfaces between the DacMagic Plus and my Anthem AVM20.  It was working fine, then suddenly the sound would get clipped.
  The only fix was flipping to RCA.
   
  I don't know how to isolate the problem to the Anthem or the DM+ because I don't have anything else with XLR.  The cables worked fine.  Nothing changed.  I purchase the DM+ new mid Oct 2012.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





stormfriend said:


> How do you find the Oppo 105 compared to the Gungnir at other sample rates, particularly 44.1?


 
  I checked the Manual of my Oppo BDP-103 and is says the max output for Coax / Optical is 192
   
  The Cambridge DAC Magic Plus output for Coax / Optical is also limited to 192


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





frankty said:


> Yeah, it also says (I read *someplace* today) that there is no speed limit either.
> 
> Also, Jason Stoddard said to me in an email: "Unfortunately, Toslink is artificially limited to keep it safe for plastic fiber. Some Macs will output 24/192, some of them won't."
> 
> Jason, which Macs do > 96kHz?  Hackery required?


 
  I suspect all the consumer grade A/V gear has the limitation as well.  Both ends of the link need to be 192kHz for that clock to be negotiated.   Well duh !  on me.
   The chipset probably cost too much when 95% of the equipment has a chip with a max clock of 96kHz.  Where's the incentive to put in a better chip when you don't know what's on the other end.
   
  My speculation.
  Everything I have maxes out at 192.  AVM20, BDP-103, DM+.  The Bifrost is 96.
   
  I just looked it up.
  iMac, Late 2012.  Max sample rate 96kHz


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I actually agree with you. Bal sounds fuller to me. This is just where subjectivity takes off (same w/cables), etc.


 
  +1
  when mine worked


----------



## grokit

http://www.head-fi.org/t/532293/mac-audio-midi-setup-for-24-bit-96-192khz-files


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





grokit said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/532293/mac-audio-midi-setup-for-24-bit-96-192khz-files


 
  I agree with "almost" everything on that thread, including the link to the article about the human ear being able to detect the difference between 96kHz music files and 192kHz files.
  I certainly can't, hence I'm happy with 96.
   
  What I think is misinformation is a Mac optical s/pdif being able to clock at anything above 96.  Mine certainly can't.  One is a Mid 2011 mini and the one I'm typing on is a MBP 2012 Retnia, Thunderbolt, with SSD.  I went to apple.com and pulled the spec for a late 2012 iMac.   Max 96kHz.    The post that mentioned an Intel "Thunderbolt" audio is, at the moment, not true.
   
  Warning, Warning to folks that Post / Read this thread.
  I just ordered an Gungnr, so you are stuck with me.
   
  I hope to be able to pronounce the name and spell it in the near future.


----------



## jronan2

I got the stack ordered also. I hope it comes in a week or two. I ended up adding usb so I can use it with my new Macbook Air. I ordered on Dec. 3, probably a few days before they became backordered. I have a feeling this thread will take off again once the new batch of buyers finally take possession.


----------



## paradoxper

Do the air's not have toslink?


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





stormfriend said:


> How do you find the Oppo 105 compared to the Gungnir at other sample rates, particularly 44.1?


 
  I play very few disks anymore.  The only Redbook disk (16/44.1) I have done much listening to is the sampler CD that came with my speakers.  Every CD I've ever owned is now on my NAS (lossless flac) and usually I use one of the Sonos (2 in the house) to play CDs.  When I'm in a HiFi mood It's always 24 bit content and very little of that is 44.1.  Having said that, there is very little difference I can detect (if any) between the NAS->DAC->Amp and Oppo->Amp paths.  The Oppo is an awesome machine and I've only begun to explore it's features.  I'm hoping it will replace my Boxee for playing ad-hoc video content.
   
  Frank


----------



## budget minded

the nice thing about an external DAC is that you can do room correction with software if you're using a PC or hardware as in a behringer DEQ 24/96 with the best possible DAC. the oppo has been rated class A by stereophile (if that really even means anything beyond "thanks for advertising with us"), but if you want to do room correction with it, you need to burn CDs, and then burn more if you so much as add acoustic treatment to your room or even move the speakers, if, like me, you still listen to speakers like an old school barbarian. (i do have several headphones and earphones though) that the gungnir has RCA jacks is a big plus to me against the yulong D18. it'd be nice if someone could do a direct comparison between those two as they're very close in price and respectability from everything i've read here so far.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Do the air's not have toslink?


 
   
  Nope. Only the Pro's have optical. I really wanted a rMBP but don't really need it not a a huge photographer or anything like that. I use optical on my imac and usb on my air I cannot tell a difference. But I do try to use optical if I can, just because from what I have read its supposed to be better, my ears cannot notice a SQ difference though.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Nope. Only the Pro's have optical. I really wanted a rMBP but don't really need it not a a huge photographer or anything like that. I use optical on my imac and usb on my air I cannot tell a difference. But I do try to use optical if I can, just because from what I have read its supposed to be better, my ears cannot notice a SQ difference though.


 
  +1


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Nope. Only the Pro's have optical.


 
  I think you mean all current mac's have optical out except the Air.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





erukian said:


> I think you mean all current mac's have optical out except the Air.


 
   
  And the Retina Pros.
   
  It seems like Apple is moving away from SPDIF out, at least on notebooks.


----------



## Erukian

http://www.tuaw.com/2012/06/14/attention-world-the-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-does-have-o/
   
  Can someone who actually owns one confirm?


----------



## jronan2

I'm gonna say yes they have optical. http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs-retina/


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Oops! It didn't show up in the first set of specs released by Apple. Guess I should have upgraded, but I want a 13" and quad i7 before changing up.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





erukian said:


> http://www.tuaw.com/2012/06/14/attention-world-the-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-does-have-o/
> 
> Can someone who actually owns one confirm?


 
  Typing on one now.... and listening to Bifrost/Lyr/LCD2... via 96kHz S/PDIF Optical.
  15" MBP Retina 2.6GHz Intel Core i7


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Typing on one now.... and listening to Bifrost/Lyr/LCD2... via 96kHz S/PDIF Optical.
> 15" MBP Retina 2.6GHz Intel Core i7


 
  It's just a matter of time before we see the 13" retina. Probably by summer which is when the rMBP came out.
   
  Apple seems to have no rhyme or reason when it comes to scheduling mac releases, unlike iPhones and iPads.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





erukian said:


> Apple seems to have no rhyme or reason when it comes to scheduling mac releases, unlike iPhones and iPads.


 
  Yea. Like releasing The New Ipad just months before The New New Ipad.


----------



## judmarc

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Like other audio component and accessories (that shall not be mentioned in this thread)  discussions, I have a difficult time
> believing one digital processor can sound better than another.  Bits is bits.  If you have enough horsepower to drive data over an interface, you are good to go.


 
   
  'Tain't so.  
   
  If you've ever been listening to your system when it's lost signal lock, you've heard the actual digital bits, and it's really unpleasant - sounds like a loud burst of static.  All DACs have to filter those bits to make music out of them (it's called "decimation").  The vast majority of DACs, including the Schiit DACs, make the sample rate higher (interpolation) before the decimation step in order to avoid certain forms of distortion.  Both interpolation and decimation are done by means of filters.  Those filters use math known as Fourier transforms.  Fourier transforms cannot optimize frequency and time domain response at the same time.  When you make one better, the other gets worse.  That's just the way the math works.  So the filtering in each and every DAC represents a compromise by the maker of the DAC, or the maker of the DAC chip, between best time response and best frequency response.  The sound you hear, which is the result of that filtering, is based on the designer's judgment (possibly aided by other listeners) as to which compromise provides the best overall sound quality.  So different DACs can and do sound very different based on the different filter designs the DAC makers or DAC chip makers chose.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





judmarc said:


> 'Tain't so.
> 
> If you've ever been listening to your system when it's lost signal lock, you've heard the actual digital bits, and it's really unpleasant - sounds like a loud burst of static.  All DACs have to filter those bits to make music out of them (it's called "decimation").  The vast majority of DACs, including the Schiit DACs, make the sample rate higher (interpolation) before the decimation step in order to avoid certain forms of distortion.  Both interpolation and decimation are done by means of filters.  Those filters use math known as Fourier transforms.  Fourier transforms cannot optimize frequency and time domain response at the same time.  When you make one better, the other gets worse.  That's just the way the math works.  So the filtering in each and every DAC represents a compromise by the maker of the DAC, or the maker of the DAC chip, between best time response and best frequency response.  The sound you hear, which is the result of that filtering, is based on the designer's judgment (possibly aided by other listeners) as to which compromise provides the best overall sound quality.  So different DACs can and do sound very different based on the different filter designs the DAC makers or DAC chip makers chose.


 
  Now that is an excellent response.
  You've done a great job explaining the process.
  Thank you.


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Yea. Like releasing The New Ipad just months before The New New Ipad.


 
  Not to be too off topic, but apple seems to have clearly shifted to 6 month release cycles with iOS devices to keep pace with android. I'd expect the iPad 5th gen and iPhone 5S to be here in the next few months.


----------



## AlphaChicken

Thanks to Grokit and Paradoxper and all others who responded for helping me figure things out as far as interfacing goes. I will hopefully soon be purchasing a Gungnir and Mjolnir combo. After hearing all the positive feedback for this combo, I dare say I am extremely excited.


----------



## budget minded

method of digital conversion and filtering (with no mention of bitstreaming or dithering yet either) aren't the only factors that affect sound quality either... after analogue conversion, the signal still needs an amplification stage which also imparts a signature on the sound. the bifrost and gungnir both use different amplification stages for the same DAC, though the gungnir apparently has a better jitter reduction circuit which also affects sound too.
   
  the "bits is bits" line of thinking sounds like it's a holdover from the "perfect sound forever" hype used to sell CDs at twice the price and 1/4 tthe manufacturing cost of LPs with actually inferior sound even to this day and if you heard the sound of even "high end" CD players like an $800 carver i tried to listen to in the 80s, DACs were hideous then, and even in the early 90s, i heard some "high end" player on a $20,000 pair of B&Ws sounding quite metallic.
   
  if you want some proof that different dacs have different sound, if you already have a home theater receiver and a DVD player of a different brand or "era", switch back and forth between your player's analogue outs and digital outs into your receiver. i'll tell you right now, circa 2000 sony and 2005 panasonic sound VERY different, and even my former onkyo sounded different switching between PCM & bitstream modes.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





erukian said:


> Not to be too off topic, but apple seems to have clearly shifted to 6 month release cycles with iOS devices to keep pace with android. I'd expect the iPad 5th gen and iPhone 5S to be here in the next few months.


 
  Still kind of screwed over customers. Or at least many did seem outraged.
  We'll see if Apple keeps up the 6 month iteration of new products.
   
  And I'm of the opinion that Apple doesn't need to saturate the market or fragment it
  by releasing side-grades or holding out on key features for next year, this way 
  they'll have something "new" to release.
  Quote: 





alphachicken said:


> Thanks to Grokit and Paradoxper and all others who responded for helping me figure things out as far as interfacing goes. I will hopefully soon be purchasing a Gungnir and Mjolnir combo. After hearing all the positive feedback for this combo, I dare say I am extremely excited.


 
   
  Antsy, antsy! I'm sure you'll love the combo. Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## olor1n

Did Schiit ever get to the bottom of the screeching usb issue some have encountered? I've had my NAD M51 running for weeks from usb and not once has it skipped a beat. Same could't be said of the Bifrosts and Gungnir I've had connected to the same source (MBP).


----------



## judmarc

Re screech, supposed to be an updated USB board to resolve that and allow 176.4 USB input in the very near future (weeks or even days).


----------



## Jon Snow

judmarc said:


> Re screech, supposed to be an updated USB board to resolve that and allow 176.4 USB input in the very near future (weeks or even days).



The SPDIF inputs do 176.4, right?


----------



## grokit

jon snow said:


> judmarc said:
> 
> 
> > Re screech, supposed to be an updated USB board to resolve that and allow 176.4 USB input in the very near future (weeks or even days).
> ...




Good question, I was under the impression that the AKM4399 DAC chip was where the limitation is re 176.4.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Good question, I was under the impression that the AKM4399 DAC chip was where the limitation is re 176.4.


 
Correct. Or at least thus far. The only way to achieve it would be upsampling


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Correct. Or at least thus far.


 
  The C-Media chip is the limitation for 176.4, not the AKM. SPDIF does 176.4 just fine.
   
  And yes, there is a new USB input board coming in a couple of weeks, to solve the handful of remaining "screeching" problems (literally like 30 out of 3000.) Contact us (or your distributor) if you need a board.


----------



## Jon Snow

​


paradoxper said:


> Correct. Or at least thus far.



So, do I understand correctly that the Gungnir will do neither DSD nor 176.4?

Edit: I missed Jason's remark above.


----------



## Maxvla

It will do 176.4 over spdif, not over USB until the new USB modules are ready. No to DSD, that's an entirely different animal.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> The C-Media chip is the limitation for 176.4, not the AKM. SPDIF does 176.4 just fine.
> 
> And yes, there is a new USB input board coming in a couple of weeks, to solve the handful of remaining "screeching" problems (literally like 30 out of 3000.) Contact us (or your distributor) if you need a board.


 
  Ah, thanks for the correction. I know coax and optical take PCM resolutions, but Mac is limited to 96 on optical.


----------



## judmarc

maxvla said:


> It will do 176.4 over spdif, not over USB until the new USB modules are ready. No to DSD, that's an entirely different animal.




Right, but with some players (Audirvana+ on Mac is what I use), you can convert DSD to PCM on the fly. I'm pretty happy with the sound I get from DSD files that way.


----------



## judmarc

jason stoddard said:


> The C-Media chip is the limitation for 176.4, not the AKM. SPDIF does 176.4 just fine.
> 
> And yes, there is a new USB input board coming in a couple of weeks, to solve the handful of remaining "screeching" problems (literally like 30 out of 3000.) Contact us (or your distributor) if you need a board.




Only 3000? People need to buy more!


----------



## budget minded

Quote: 





> I'm of the opinion that Apple doesn't need to saturate the market or fragment it  by releasing side-grades or holding out on key features for next year, this way
> they'll have something "new" to release.


 
  so far, that strategy has worked fine for them... whatever overpriced gear apple puts out, there will be hoardes of poseurs willing to camp out to be the first to have whatever, even if it's just a new color. i was reading an article about apple users, ipods in particular (talk about overpriced and under-performing) and that many who buy them merely want to make fashion statements.
   
  i've always wanted to switch to the apple OS just to be rid of windows glitches and viruses, but a proper desktop has never fallen under $1200 that i've ever seen, where you could get a custom built PC compatible for half that. i'm thinking of switching to linux, especially now that windows' forced upgrades path (no different than apple's except apple owners are EAGER to upgrade maybe) has turned windows 8 into crapware of the lowest order that's no longer a "real" desktop OS, but a clunky tablet interface in the way of one.
   
  i think i'll convert this old dinosaur into a linux web browser and eventually get a new custom PC and a "final version" of XP and updates to run multimedia software that's all compatible and run that system into the ground for 20 years the way PCs SHOULD work without the industry wide planned obsolescence few seem too concerned about, but that i've always hated. if i had my way, i'd still be using 98 and get my sound mixer back and all of my text documents XP "broke" to make me need word to still read.


----------



## alexcs

Has anyone with a Gungnir also had experience with the Stello DA100? Im currently using that with the mjolnir/lcd2's and was interested in personal experience with both. Cheers..


----------



## jfoxvol

Hey folks,
   
  My first post here.  Just ordered a Gungnir (well actually back in early December) and its on its way.  Proud Mjolnir owner and looking forward to hearing the pair together.  How many folks here run this setup with Audezes?  I've got a pair of LCD3s and I'm just in love.
   
  Fox


----------



## jronan2

I'm also waiting for my Gungnir and Mjolnir that shipped out yesterday. I will be using the LCD 2 rev. 2 and LCD 3 with a Norse Reign 8 cable and either pyst xlr's or Norse Reign xlr's. I have been waiting a long time for this set up cannot wait to use it.


----------



## paradoxper

Congrats, dudes!
   
  LCD-3's are a sublime combo.


----------



## jfoxvol

Thanks. I'm running mbp w pure music --> dac magic w/ Pangea via toslink --> mjolnir. I've got a pair of balanced 650s and denon 7000s. LCDs blow them away but the amp sounds great. I've been reading great reviews on the Gungnir and can't wait to hear the improvement.


----------



## budget minded

my system:
 AKG K44 closed cans with a couple feet wound
 Art DualPre AD/DA preamp
 2x 4 foot Radio Shack grey plastic 1/4 monos twisted & looped out of the preamp and back in for PC listening

 backup cans are an old pair of JVC semi-opens with the headband glued that aren't as efficient as the AKGs or have as much bass, but were the best sounding around $40 when i demoed them in the early 90s.

 i have a bunch of earbuds and the cube i'm listening off right now had some nice sounding earbuds, but mine had a shorted channel so i use my cowon earbuds for traveling or the AKGs.

 i have a nice sounding creative labs audigy gold sound  card that they busted the drivers on collecting dust that i had to get the ART for as well as it's phantom powered mic inputs.

 i'd get a short cable pair of AT50s if AKG would make them.

 i like the out of head imaging of speakers better than in your head cans sound and have a 2002ish sony DVD player, a panasonic SA-XR55 class D receiver, 10 gauge monster cables with bananas soldered to the receiver end and soldered, wired or gold pinned into energy RC-10 5 1/4" mini-monitors with the ports plugged as seen in my avatar in a nice sized and proportioned living room 4 feet or more from the back wall and about as close together as i can fit around my TV stand and 42" widescreen on 4 cinder blocks stacked to 24" which is about right for tweeter height. i listen at under 70dB usually and maybe mid 70s for TV watching.
   
  i do my loud listening on the PC AKG system, like now listening to zapp's dance floor.
   
  the best sounding cans i've owned were a nice pair of sampson AKG clones i got in a cheap package with a large diaphragm mic. they weren't the most efficient or had much bass, but you could crank them loud with little distortion.
   
  i really liked the efficiency and bass of of my cheap head clamping sennheiser 202s i think until the wires got pulled by a duffle bag of groceries. they fared well against up to $100 cans including grados. not a fan of those swivel mounts either. they came with a nice cable winding oval bobbin that made them portable friendly. i'd get another pair if i needed to.


----------



## jfoxvol

jronan2 said:


> I'm also waiting for my Gungnir and Mjolnir that shipped out yesterday. I will be using the LCD 2 rev. 2 and LCD 3 with a Norse Reign 8 cable and either pyst xlr's or Norse Reign xlr's. I have been waiting a long time for this set up cannot wait to use it.




Let me know how those cables work. I've just ordered some cardas fat pipe. Always looking for something a little closer


----------



## budget minded

they really should offer 30 day testing of the gear as the consensus seems to say it takes 300 hours to break in, and that's just 12 days if run constantly.


----------



## jfoxvol

Gungnir came in today and it's leaps and bounds above the Dac Magic.  However, it is a bit bright out of the box and these LCD3s are pretty laid back headphones.  I've had it running about 6 hours. So, I'll reserve any criticisms until it's had time to burn in some more.  I do really notice quite a bit more detail and more natural sound with this addition to my setup.  So far happy but ready to see what the steady state operation will be once its had some time.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





jfoxvol said:


> Gungnir came in today and it's leaps and bounds above the Dac Magic.  However, it is a bit bright out of the box and these LCD3s are pretty laid back headphones.  I've had it running about 6 hours. So, I'll reserve any criticisms until it's had time to burn in some more.  I do really notice quite a bit more detail and more natural sound with this addition to my setup.  So far happy but ready to see what the steady state operation will be once its had some time.


 





  Can't wait


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jfoxvol said:


> Gungnir came in today and it's leaps and bounds above the Dac Magic.  However, it is a bit bright out of the box and these LCD3s are pretty laid back headphones.  I've had it running about 6 hours. So, I'll reserve any criticisms until it's had time to burn in some more.  I do really notice quite a bit more detail and more natural sound with this addition to my setup.  So far happy but ready to see what the steady state operation will be once its had some time.


 
  Things will definitely smoothen out. I find it curious that soo many of us have found it bright out of the box. And congrats!


----------



## frankty

judmarc said:


> Unfortunately the Mac minis and BookPro won't do S/PDIF > 96. It look like its time to build a PC to do the job - as much as I hate the idea.


----------



## budget minded

Quote: 





> Things will definitely smoothen out. I find it curious that soo many of us have found it bright out of the box.


 
  then it definitely makes sense to warm my already thin and clinical sounding system up with an amp change first. it might not get a fair testing on my panasonic SA-XR55 that i'm trying to upgrade from. that would be a bad synergy at the start. that the unit can sound a little more liquid and analogue after a break in is why i'm interested though. just not liking the sound descriptions of overly warm & "musical" yulong and eastern electric competitors. EE in particular is out of the $700 game though as is MDHT labs too i think.
   
  the "ideal balance" for me is simply effortless without too much warmth and thickness or cold hard edge and grain. everything i've read makes me think that the gungnir is pretty neutral like that overall


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





frankty said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Or you should be able to install windows on your Mac as the windows audio drivers I believe should allow 24/192.


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





erukian said:


> Or you should be able to install windows on your Mac as the windows audio drivers I believe should allow 24/192.


 
  Uh, no.  I can put together some piece of junk for cheap enough.  I run Win7, Linux, whatever, but only as virtual machines.  Not worth wasting my MacBook on this task.
  If it really is the software in the OSX Kernel or a Driver, then I'll start hacking when I find time.


----------



## judmarc

If you're talking about optical out from Mac, 24/96 is a hardware limit, so don't waste your time.

And how'd you (or someone you quoted from) make it look like I was saying I'd build a Win machine? I already have one (run Linux and FreeBSD also), but my main rig with the Bifrost I run Mountain Lion on a MacBook Pro with Audirvana+ over USB, and that's not changing soon.


----------



## Erukian

There is so much misinformation out there.
   
  The DAC chips in modern macs are completely capable of 24/192 but the optical output is limited under Mac OS X to 24/96. This has nothing to do with building a PC because it's more economical, that's not even relevant to this technical discussion.
   
  If you don't believe me - install windows 8/7/Vista with the latest audio drivers on your mac in bootcamp and look for yourself. You can easily blow away the partition when you're done.


----------



## judmarc

erukian said:


> There is so much misinformation out there.
> 
> The DAC chips in modern macs are completely capable of 24/192 but the optical output is limited under Mac OS X to 24/96. This has nothing to do with building a PC because it's more economical, that's not even relevant to this technical discussion.
> 
> If you don't believe me - install windows 8/7/Vista with the latest audio drivers on your mac in bootcamp and look for yourself. You can easily blow away the partition when you're done.




Almost completely right. The 24/96 hardware limitation is not in the DAC chip, it is in the optical output hardware. So that's where I was saying not to waste time trying to get resolutions above 24/96 - from the optical SPDIF output. Other outputs are perfectly capable, as you say, of 24/192 (or over) to external DACs, or up to 24/192 using the internal DAC.


----------



## frankty

I've been searching continuously for a way to get 24/196 (non-USB) out of a Mini or MacBook.  It looks like the only hope is Thunderbolt.  There is professional gear heading down that path.  A bit pricy when one could build a complete cheap PC to do the same.
   
  Anyway, check this out:  64 channels of 24/192.  Maybe someone will take pity and give us just one channel of S/PDIF coax ..
  http://apogeedigital.com/products/symphony-io.php#thunderbridge
   
  At least this means the parts are probably available off the shelf.
   
  Has anyone really/actually been successful at getting bootcamp to run the toslink @ 24/192 (with a decent cable at least), or has this all been speculation?
   
  Cheers,
  Frank


----------



## judmarc

frankty said:


> I've been searching continuously for a way to get 24/196 (non-USB) out of a Mini or MacBook.  It looks like the only hope is Thunderbolt.  There is professional gear heading down that path.  A bit pricy when one could build a complete cheap PC to do the same.
> 
> Anyway, check this out:  64 channels of 24/192.  Maybe someone will take pity and give us just one channel of S/PDIF coax ..
> http://apogeedigital.com/products/symphony-io.php#thunderbridge
> ...




I've run Boot Camp on my MBP to try out Windows players with the Bifrost. For Toslink on Mac, 24/96 is a *hardware limitation*. It is not physically possible to get 24/192 out of the optical digital connection on a Mac.

Why all the searching for a non-USB solution? On my system USB sounded best, so why not try it?


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





judmarc said:


> I've run Boot Camp on my MBP to try out Windows players with the Bifrost. For Toslink on Mac, 24/96 is a *hardware limitation*. It is not physically possible to get 24/192 out of the optical digital connection on a Mac.
> 
> Why all the searching for a non-USB solution? On my system USB sounded best, so why not try it?


 
  Bummer.  Do the bootcamp drivers just not work, or is the toslink reporting that it can't do those rates?  The native windows drivers supposedly do not work on any toslink above 96k, but there are out drivers out there that do.
   
  As for USB - I do, I have.  I've both a Bifrost and Gungnir.  The USB adds an extra layer to the signal path.  Our favorite vendor says "our USB is better than most, but still .."
   
  It's like climbing a mountain, you can't see the view until you're at the top.  Well, I want to be able to truly A/B coax vs USB at any rate.  And NOT using a USB to coax adapter - adding stuff to the signal path, how stupid is that?  Except for maybe .. a FIFO that re-clocks the signal, check out:
  http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/192465-asynchronous-i2s-fifo-project-ultimate-weapon-fight-jitter.html
   
  Cheers, Frank


----------



## judmarc

frankty said:


> Bummer.  Do the bootcamp drivers just not work, or is the toslink reporting that it can't do those rates?  The native windows drivers supposedly do not work on any toslink above 96k, but there are out drivers out there that do.
> 
> As for USB - I do, I have.  I've both a Bifrost and Gungnir.  The USB adds an extra layer to the signal path.  Our favorite vendor says "our USB is better than most, but still .."
> 
> ...




Hi, Frank. The I2S looks mighty interesting, and has even drawn the attention of Demian Martin, a designer of some extremely fine audio equipment (just as Mike and Jason are, which is what initially drew me to the Schiit DACs). I wonder if Twisted Pear might have something DIY that at least outputs I2S, don't know about the async though.

When I say the 24/96 is a hardware limit, I mean no matter what drivers you use, the optical module in a MacBook can't output a signal over 96k.

BTW, what makes you think USB intrinsically has more "layers"? Have a look at Audirvana+ and "integer mode" and "direct mode."


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





judmarc said:


> Hi, Frank. The I2S looks mighty interesting, and has even drawn the attention of Demian Martin, a designer of some extremely fine audio equipment (just as Mike and Jason are, which is what initially drew me to the Schiit DACs). I wonder if Twisted Pear might have something DIY that at least outputs I2S, don't know about the async though.
> 
> When I say the 24/96 is a hardware limit, I mean no matter what drivers you use, the optical module in a MacBook can't output a signal over 96k.
> 
> BTW, what makes you think USB intrinsically has more "layers"? Have a look at Audirvana+ and "integer mode" and "direct mode."


 
   
  Yeah, I use A+, direct and integer.  As for USB and "layers" ..  The object is to take the DSD or PCM bit stream from some file and dump it into the DAC.  I2S, DSD and to some extent PCM are fundamentally similar protocols.  You pull the (say flac) blocks from a file, uncompress, DSD->PCM as required and pump it directly out S/PDIF or I2S to the DAC.  To get to USB the physical layer (look up the ISO stack) is very much different so you need to munge the stream into USB.  Then the DAC gets the USB and munges it back to something more like I2S, DSD.
   
  THE engineers can comment about exactly the flow and transformations.  There is a reason that the Schiit DACs have the USB board as an option.  It's the extra layer in HW.
   
  Jason - did I get that sorta right?


----------



## judmarc

Thanks, Frank, the info is much appreciated. Learning new stuff is a pleasure. Time for some research.


----------



## budget minded

the reader's digest version of the first nineteen pages would be:
   
   
  Quote: 





> *m2man*
> 
> I'm not sure I have anything good/fair to compare it with. It easily beats my Fostex HP-P1. More extension and less distortion. Not as good as my Eximus, though the Gunjnir does go lower (damnit). Clearly there is a bass head over there at the factory headquarters. It doesn't seem colored in any way, though it's not as bright as the Eximus (which arguably could be too bright). Good detail but not harsh or gritty anywhere.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





> *SourceGuy*
> 
> Listening to some 192 files through Pure Music with USB. I wont provide a review yet... It takes me forever to understand how a new piece of gear sounds before I can describe it's sonic qualities. So far it blows away my v-dac II and modded parasound d/ac-1000 but that was expected. Much more full-bodied sound and not at all hollow.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





> *wkhanna*
> 
> I just wanted to share a few immediate impressions:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





> *grokit*
> 
> Just getting my first listen in as well, it does seem to be an upgrade rather than a sidegrade which was my biggest concern. I am noticing more detail from both ends of the spectrum than with my previous DAC setup, and increased depth to the soundstage. This is with the USB input
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





> *paradoxper*
> 
> The Gungnir is neutral and transparent. Bass is very tight and very fast. Very good imaging, it's effortless.  I also concur on the Bifrost seeming veiled in comparison.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





> *SHYood*
> 
> On first listen, It does sound harsh and strident and, well, a bit raspy out of the box.  There was detail, aplenty, but at the expense of a very fatiguing high end.  I turned the output off and went away for 24 hours.  When I returned to listening, the top end has smoothed out a good bit and the jaggedness that a prior poster had referred to was fading nicely.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





> *Questhate*
> 
> Just popping in to say that I've had my Gungnir since last Thursday and have NOT been able to pull myself away from my system.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





> *olor1n*
> 
> Gungnir came in today. Initial impressions straight out of the box confirms what others have stated. The Gungnir is on a whole other level from the Bifrost. I only have it connected to the Mjolnir single ended via rca at the moment (waiting for balanced PYST cables), but the improvement over the Bifrost is evident. It seems to have the same signature, though the frequency extremes extend further. There's more air from the smooth top end, and better separation and placement of elements as a result. It makes the Bifrost seem flat and "veiled" in comparison. The most apparent improvement though is in the bass.


 
   
  Quote: 





> *PewterTA*
> 
> *Gungnir over the CA840c:*
> -Slightly sharper, maybe clearer and/or slightly more detail.  Also seems slightly thinner sounding because of this.
> ...


 
   
  the info is much easier to digest like that


----------



## SnookAU

I have about 150 hours on my Gungnir now.
   
  At first I was dissapointed.as the high's sounded really fake & shrill & raspy. At first the Dac Magic Plus I upgraded from beat it for the highs.
   
  However, after 150 hours this thing is smooth as, spacious as. Pink Floyd sounds rediculously good.
   
  I found something that sounds absolutely AMAZING is this. https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD603497941032
   
  It is just rediculous how good 'Dreams' sounds. It actually sounds perfect to my ears. The bass is so punchy and tight, it sounds like perfect vinyl without the hiss!!! Check it out...
   
  So far so good with the Gungnir. I am running VAF DCX-35's on an NAD 351BEE 2 Channel Amp.


----------



## Jon Snow

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *SnookAU* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> At first I was dissapointed.as the high's sounded really fake & shrill & raspy. At first the Dac Magic Plus I upgraded from beat it for the highs.
> 
> However, after 150 hours this thing is smooth as, spacious as. Pink Floyd sounds rediculously good.


 
   
  I had a similar experience.  The higher frequencies sucked at first listen.  I A-B the Gungnir with my Logitech Touch and I could not tell the difference between the two.  After about 200 hrs the Gungnir is slightly better in the upper frequencies and clearly better in the lower range.  Of course, the Touch also has about $500 in mods done to it.
   
  Currently, I'm comparing the Gungnir to the new TEAC UD-501.  So far, the only definitive conclusion I've drawn is that they are both good DACs.


----------



## budget minded

interesting heads up on the teac DAC. they do take their high end gear seriously. if the two DACs sound similar, then the gungnir has to be the better deal as it's $100 cheaper. though probably about the same street value, but it just looks so much cooler than the teac in either color. looks might not be the most important part for a piece of gear, but they do matter, especially when you're paying close to $1,000.
   
  let us know how the two DACs compare when you've done more listening to them. if the teac's that good, it deserves recognition too. no giant killing bargain should suffer obscurity. that 1980s retro look with ugly red LEDs isn't my cup of tea at all though.


----------



## zerodeefex

budget minded said:


> interesting heads up on the teac DAC. they do take their high end gear seriously. if the two DACs sound similar, then the gungnir has to be the better deal as it's $100 cheaper. though probably about the same street value, but it just looks so much cooler than the teac in either color. looks might not be the most important part for a piece of gear, but they do matter, especially when you're paying close to $1,000.
> 
> let us know how the two DACs compare when you've done more listening to them. if the teac's that good, it deserves recognition too. no giant killing bargain should suffer obscurity. that 1980s retro look with ugly red LEDs isn't my cup of tea at all though.




You can get the TEAC for $777 shipped from some dealers. That's how I got mine.


----------



## SnookAU

But you still own a Teac... who also make every other cheap consumer item in the world. Even if it sounded decent that would bug me forever....


----------



## Jon Snow

Quote: 





snookau said:


> But you still own a Teac... who also make every other cheap consumer item in the world. Even if it sounded decent that would bug me forever....


 
   
  One word...Esoteric.


----------



## Jon Snow

Quote: 





budget minded said:


> interesting heads up on the teac DAC. they do take their high end gear seriously. if the two DACs sound similar, then the gungnir has to be the better deal as it's $100 cheaper. though probably about the same street value, but it just looks so much cooler than the teac in either color. looks might not be the most important part for a piece of gear, but they do matter, especially when you're paying close to $1,000.
> 
> let us know how the two DACs compare when you've done more listening to them. if the teac's that good, it deserves recognition too. no giant killing bargain should suffer obscurity. that 1980s retro look with ugly red LEDs isn't my cup of tea at all though.


 
   
  Actually, I got the same deal on the TEAC as Zerodefex, and with free shipping the TEAC was a little less.  I think the TEAC looks pretty cool, but maybe it's not for everybody.  At this point, I'm not even close to wrapping my head around the sound difference between these two DACs, but they are definitely different sounding - the TEAC having a more laid back and darker presentation.  My apologies, but those are the best adjectives I have at the moment.  I'll try to make a better comparison in time, but for now I will reiterate that these are both very good DACs.  However, personal tastes would probably dictate which would be preferable.
   
  Oh yeah, I should mention that I'm not a headphone guy, although I do own a pair of Shure SHR 840s.


----------



## budget minded

Quote: 





> they are definitely different sounding - the TEAC having a more laid back and darker presentation


 
   
  that sounds like an adequate description of the differences to me, and would make the teac preferable to many who might lean towards the yulong D18 or eastern electric DACs.
   
  Quote: 





> But you still own a Teac... who also make every other cheap consumer item in the world. Even if it sounded decent that would bug me forever....


 
   
  as someone mentioned, teac esoteric is their high end line, and their ceramic driver $20k magnesium driver speakers got a serious rave review in stereophile for world class sound and freedom from distortions. yes, teac makes consumer gear, but they also make studio recording gear where lofi is NEVER an option, and back when they were still making cassette decks, theirs had the absolute best specs, particularly in the wow & flutter category. if you want to use the japanese consumer product analogy, honda makes cheap civics, but also made the NSX which was reviewed as the best balanced supercar in the world plus they at least make engines for formula 1 racing too. if anything, being a giant corporation gives teac a huge advantage in R&D dollars.
   
  biases are hard to shake. back when the sonic impact amp was first released, no one wanted to accept that a $15 plastic amplifier could sound "tubelike" or even "high end". i'm having to shake my own bias against NAD after the terrible synergy my receiver had with soft dome tweeters as the general consensus seems to be that their M51 DAC is one of the best in the world. gear is what it is, and not what we label it in our heads, but i still can't get past how ugly the teac DACs are. LOL red LEDs always look cheap and tacky to me reminding me of the 1st generation made in russia giant digital watch i was given in the 70s. i don't like red LEDs one bit.
   
  if teac reboxed the DAC in an esoteric line with an appropriate high end looking aluminum enclosure with blue or white LEDs, i might consider it. green LEDs look cheap to me too, but red are the worst. i'd have to tape over them which creates a different kind of ugly.


----------



## deluxman

Hey guys,
   
  Need some input here. I am thinking of getting the Gungnir but wondering which one is better:
  1) Gungnir with USB input
  or
  2) Gungnir with no usb + Musical Fidelity V-link 192
   
  My laptop has no spdif out so only USB but from what I was reading the coax on the Gungnir sounds  better. Do you guys think the Gungnir+V-link 192 combo sounds better or the Gungnir with USB is better? Price wise is about the same. Please advise.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





deluxman said:


> Do you guys think the Gungnir+V-link 192 combo sounds better or the Gungnir with USB is better?


 
   
  I prefer the V192 into the coax input to the USB input.


----------



## SourceGuy

I also prefer the V192 over the Gungir's USB implementation.  I would go with the non-USB version.


----------



## grokit

The USB input can be convenient for guest devices, it's doesn't sound bad or anything.


----------



## Raksasa

Quote: 





> _*Originally Posted by grokit /img/forum/go_quote.gif*_
> 
> _*I prefer the V192 into the coax input to the USB input.*_


 
   
  Can you expand on that please ? What are the improvements ?
   
  Cheers,
   
  R


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





raksasa said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  We discussed it a bit, a while back...
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/603219/schiit-gungnir-dac/195#post_8735446


----------



## Raksasa

Quote: 





> _*Originally Posted by grokit /img/forum/go_quote.gif*_
> _*We discussed it a bit, a while back...*_
> 
> _*http://www.head-fi.org/t/603219/schiit-gungnir-dac/195#post_8735446*_


 
   
  Cheers, Grok-san,
   
  Musta missed it. Will now try a V192 as da' Gung is my goto DAC and I want it to sound it's best.
   
  Cheers,
   
  R


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





raksasa said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Howdy John! I'd suggest foregoing the extra expense of an adapter. Just ditch the Gungnir and go the M51. You won't regret it.


----------



## Raksasa

Quote: 





> _*Originally Posted by olor1n /img/forum/go_quote.gif*_
> 
> _*Howdy John! I'd suggest foregoing the extra expense of an adapter. Just ditch the Gungnir and go the M51. You won't regret it.*_


 
   
  Hey Jon,
   
  Great to hear you're enjoying the NAD. I'll send you a PM.
   
  R


----------



## deluxman

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Howdy John! I'd suggest foregoing the extra expense of an adapter. Just ditch the Gungnir and go the M51. You won't regret it.


 

 Hey Olor1n,
   
  How different is the M51 over Gungnir? Is the 3x price warranty the difference? Is the difference very significant?
  Thanks.


----------



## Raksasa

Quote: 





> _*Originally Posted by deluxman /img/forum/go_quote.gif*_
> 
> 
> _* . . . .   Is the 3x price warranty the difference?  . . . .  .*_


 
   
   
  FYI deluxman - the NAD M51 is approx. *1.5x* the price of a USB Gungnir in Australia, not 3x.
   
  R


----------



## grokit

If the price difference was that small here, I would have probably given the M51 serious consideration. Not because of any difference in its sound signature, but for its additional features:


 HDMI and AES/EBU inputs
 DSP volume control that "does not truncate bits"


----------



## deluxman

I thought the M51 is priced at $2000 while the Gungnir is about $750, so almost like 3x. Has anyone compared the M51 to the Gungnir by the way?


----------



## Raksasa

As stated: *"Not in Australia" -* NAD is $1500 AUD - *USB* Gungnir is $1039 AUD.
   
  Haven't heard it myself. Not enough outputs for me. Day-am...
   
  R


----------



## grokit

I'm trying to run an older Mac Mini (G4, 10.4) into the Gungnir's USB input, and when I go to Sound Preferences Output, I get two copies of "Schiit USB Interface", and I get three copies of it in the Input section. Then System Preferences crashes. Has this happened to anyone else?
   
  edit: when I select one of them and try to play back a system sound, the Gungnir clicks and the Mac Mini crashes.


----------



## Currawong

10.4 probably doesn't have new enough drivers for the USB chipset in the Gungnir, so you'd have to update the machine or use something else.


----------



## grokit

The V192's XMOS chipset works fine with 10.4 but switching cables is a hassle, so I'll have to find my RCA/BNC cable and another USB converter so I can use the Gungnir's input selector. I sure hope that its USB input will work with an iPad/CCK.


----------



## Erukian

Try upgrading or doing a clean install of 10.5 (Leopard)? Could be worth a shot.
   
  Hard to believe Leopard is over 5 years old.


----------



## grokit

I found the cable, but not the converter so I poached an older V96 from elsewhere and no worries with 10.4.
  Also the Gungnir's USB input works beautifully with the iPad/CCK, I'm currently listening to a fully balanced HE6 out of it


----------



## jackiedh

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The V192's XMOS chipset works fine with 10.4 but switching cables is a hassle, so I'll have to find my RCA/BNC cable and another USB converter so I can use the Gungnir's input selector. I sure hope that its USB input will work with an iPad/CCK.


 

 I can tell you the Gungir's USB input will work with the IPAD/CCK --I use it all the time...
   
  Jack


----------



## mac336

i have a macbook pro.
   
  thinking about picking up a gungnir soon and was wondering if I should get usb or not.  ignoring difference in price, which input method would be superior ?
   
  is jitter something i should be concerned with by using optical ?
   
   
  also, is the macbook soundcard automatically bypassed when using the gungnir ?


----------



## SnookAU

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> i have a macbook pro.
> 
> thinking about picking up a gungnir soon and was wondering if I should get usb or not.  ignoring difference in price, which input method would be superior ?
> 
> ...


 
  I think you need to read this regarding your last comment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to-analog_converter
   
  Short answer, yes. It is your soundcard.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> i have a macbook pro.
> 
> thinking about picking up a gungnir soon and was wondering if I should get usb or not.  ignoring difference in price, which input method would be superior ?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Schiit's USB implementation is good enough that some users have reported preferring it over optical, and some have preferred the other when using a Mac.
   
  When using the Gungnir, yes, you're bypassing the built-in DAC and amp in your Macbook.


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> i have a macbook pro.
> 
> thinking about picking up a gungnir soon and was wondering if I should get usb or not.  ignoring difference in price, which input method would be superior ?
> 
> ...


 
   
  If you want to go "faster" than 96Khz without downconverting - or another way of saying it, if you have content > 24bit/96khz (or intend to get some), then you need the USB as the MacBook and Mini S/PDIF(Toslink) will only do 96khz at most.  Apparently due to a hardware limitation of the chip that does the actual optical transmission.  Note that a lot of newer SACD are 176.4 khz.  So if you have a way to rip SACD (i.e. an old PS3) then you will have to convert to play those thru your DAC.
   
  I'm on a mission to solve this by getting either an old Mac Pro (deskside) or a PC that can run "hackintosh" and utilize the S/PDIF Coax.
   
  Cheers,
  Frank


----------



## grokit

Or get a standalone USB to Spdif converter that will go up to 196k. I have both but was disappointed recently that the Gungnir's optional USB input didn't support OS 10.4 for a legacy Mac Mini. It worked out fine though, now I am using two converters into the coax inputs, 96k and 192k, feeding my Vizio monitor's optical out into the Toslink input, and using the USB input for an iPad via Apple's CCK.
   
  So now all my Gungnir's connections are _occupado_ except for the extra set of SE outputs, which seem to be begging for a stand-alone electrostatic amplifier. But I have my ears plugged (with headphones) and am singing out loud, continuously, so I can't hear them


----------



## frankty

Why would someone want to add additional components to the signal path? 

Sorry, it's simply stupid to add USB->S/PDIF when one can remove USB from the signal path entirely.


----------



## Questhate

EDIT: screw it, not worth it.


----------



## Girls Generation

If they want 24/192, Macs don't have SPDIF out, and their toslink is limited to 24/96.
  Quote: 





frankty said:


> Why would someone want to add additional components to the signal path?
> 
> Sorry, it's simply stupid to add USB->S/PDIF when one can remove USB from the signal path entirely.


----------



## judmarc

frankty said:


> Why would someone want to add additional components to the signal path?
> 
> Sorry, it's simply stupid to add USB->S/PDIF when one can remove USB from the signal path entirely.




I just put the new USB board in my Bifrost after listening through optical for a while. In my particular system, the USB sounds quite a bit (no pun intended) better.

So hey, YMMV.


----------



## frankty

That's really good to hear (no pun intended) - I need to get both my Bifrost and Gungnir out to Jason to get the USB boards replaced.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





frankty said:


> Why would someone want to add additional components to the signal path?
> 
> Sorry, it's simply stupid to add USB->S/PDIF when one can remove USB from the signal path entirely.


 
  Because some prefer USB over x no matter what.
   
  And some converters are simply vastly superior to optical or coaxial.
   
  Heard an OR recently and was quite impressed.


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Because some prefer USB over x no matter what.
> 
> And some converters are simply vastly superior to optical or coaxial.
> 
> Heard an OR recently and was quite impressed.


 
   
  Well, I "prefer" USB at the moment because at least it works for all clock rates on the MacBook I use to drive the DAC.  The designers of the my DAC HW say that USB is an inferior transport, and I believe that, as I think that source I have at 96khz or lower sounds better with S/PDIF than USB.  Where it gets "silly" is to start with USB (or other physical layer) and convert to some other physical layer protocol and believe the signal can be improved.  That just ain't gonna happen unless you are doing something a bit more involved like the project that has a SRAM FIFO and super-accurate clocks to re-buffer the stream and eliminate the jitter (and assuming no bits are lost in the process).  It's no different than with vinyl - if you start with an inferior cartridge (or a worn out record) you can't make the sound "better" no matter what electronics you add and how much $ you spend.  You can make it sound different, more pleasing, but not more accurate.  From the source file up to the analog domain (DAC output interface to your preamp) it's all about accuracy (no lost bits, minimal jitter) and the fewer components in the signal path, and fewer conversions (with possibly the FIFO as an exception) the more accurate.  I've been a computer/computer-networking engineering professional for 33 years and a HiFi enthusiast for longer, this is simply fundamental engineering.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





frankty said:


> Well, I "prefer" USB at the moment because at least it works for all clock rates on the MacBook I use to drive the DAC.  The designers of the my DAC HW say that USB is an inferior transport, and I believe that, as I think that source I have at 96khz or lower sounds better with S/PDIF than USB.  Where it gets "silly" is to start with USB (or other physical layer) and convert to some other physical layer protocol and believe the signal can be improved.  That just ain't gonna happen unless you are doing something a bit more involved like the project that has a SRAM FIFO and super-accurate clocks to re-buffer the stream and eliminate the jitter (and assuming no bits are lost in the process).  It's no different than with vinyl - if you start with an inferior cartridge (or a worn out record) you can't make the sound "better" no matter what electronics you add and how much $ you spend.  You can make it sound different, more pleasing, but not more accurate.  From the source file up to the analog domain (DAC output interface to your preamp) it's all about accuracy (no lost bits, minimal jitter) and the fewer components in the signal path, and fewer conversions (with possibly the FIFO as an exception) the more accurate.  I've been a computer/computer-networking engineering professional for 33 years and a HiFi enthusiast for longer, this is simply fundamental engineering.


 
  The OR converter I heard was maxed out with dual turboclocks.
   
  IME, there are some terrible converters out there that do muck up the signal.
  However with some of these top fleet converters, it just doesn't get any better.
   
  I will say the rig used was a M51, which by itself is a good DAC,
  marginally  better than the Gungnir.
   
  Out of the OR, I have to admit I was quite impressed, with perfomance
  exceeding that of the PWD which has been one of the best USB implementations
  I've heard thus far.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

paradoxper said:


> The OR converter I heard was maxed out with dual turboclocks.
> 
> IME, there are some terrible converters out there that do muck up the signal.
> However with some of these top fleet converters, it just doesn't get any better.
> ...




Is it possible to borrow the OR like you did with all those dacs, to get a quick impression with the gungnir?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Is it possible to borrow the OR like you did with all those dacs, to get a quick impression with the gungnir?


 
  The OR I heard wasn't a demo unit, but you could contact Empirical Audio and ask.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Man I would definately like to check it out but I have a hard time spending 2k on converter for a 750 dac. I'm sure it would sound great but I get to thinking $2750 would buy the statement dac or pwd. 

Although I do remember a member that use to frequent another schiit thread who used an audiophilleo2+pure power (1k) and a bifrost and said it made a big difference so my dac vs converter price difference bias maybe unwarranted


----------



## grokit

USB digital audio has the potential to be superior to both forms of spdif, just like it has the potential to be inferior to them.
   
  Coaxial spdif has the potential to be superior to both USB digital audio and optical spdif, just like it has the potential to be inferior to them.
   
  Optical spdif may not have the potential to be superior to both USB digital audio and coaxial spdif because of inherent jitter limitations, but it can be an affordable, noise-free solution.
   
  It all depends on the quality of the implementation.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Man I would definately like to check it out but I have a hard time spending 2k on converter for a 750 dac. I'm sure it would sound great but I get to thinking $2750 would buy the statement dac or pwd.
> 
> Although I do remember a member that use to frequent another schiit thread who used an audiophilleo2+pure power (1k) and a bifrost and said it made a big difference so my dac vs converter price difference bias maybe unwarranted


 
  I wish I would have had my Gungnir on hand to try with the OR.
   
  But I definitely wouldn't consider the OR for anything but "SOTA."
   
  That was Mrrogers, yea? I've heard the A2+ and didn't find it to be exceptionally better,
  meaning, at sub $500 I would most likely just look at upgrading the DAC.
   
  Where as if you've got a $2k+ DAC, that's pretty endgame and any upgrade thereafter is subtle.
  The OR provided a pretty big step up in performance with the M51 that I'd easily consider going that upgrade path.
   
  Further, I could only imagine what the OR could do with something like the PWD, for example.
   
  But as said before past converters I've heard were meh, where as the OR is truely special.
   
  And again, I think it's all comparative. The M51's USB sounds fine,
  I would look at it as being similar to cables, as an last upgrade in the chain to squeeze that last % out of your rig.


----------



## judmarc

Quote: 





frankty said:


> Where it gets "silly" is to start with USB (or other physical layer) and convert to some other physical layer protocol and believe the signal can be improved.  That just ain't gonna happen unless you are doing something a bit more involved like the project that has a SRAM FIFO and super-accurate clocks to re-buffer the stream and eliminate the jitter (and assuming no bits are lost in the process).  It's no different than with vinyl - if you start with an inferior cartridge (or a worn out record) you can't make the sound "better" no matter what electronics you add and how much $ you spend.  You can make it sound different, more pleasing, but not more accurate.
> 
> * * *
> 
> I've been a computer/computer-networking engineering professional for 33 years and a HiFi enthusiast for longer, this is simply fundamental engineering.


 
   
  Actually a USB-to-SPDIF converter is a very good example of where digital, unlike analog (e.g., vinyl) can be improved.  Converters allow signals into an SPDIF input to be de-jittered less expensively than trying to do it running a Toslink out of a typical Mac, for instance, direct to the DAC.  (A decent converter will provide jitter specs from a couple hundred picoseconds to much lower, while many Mac optical outputs have jitter in the nanosecond range, i.e., 1000 picoseconds or above).  If your optical signal is lower jitter than Mac hardware tends to be, different story.
   
  Jitter of course is not the only piece of this.  There's electrical noise, where Toslink is obviously superior to coax and USB, and bandwidth, where the reverse is true.  (That's one reason you often see Toslink limited to 24/96 resolution, and one reason why when Mike Moffat designed an optical connection for Theta it wasn't Toslink.)


----------



## smileallways

Hi DAC gurus,
     Does anybody have experience with Mobile Fidelity V-Link II vs Yulong U18 using with Gungnir? I am interested in hearing  opinions about this.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I am also interested in this question. I am getting ready to purchase a new USB to SPDIF converter and am leaning toward a new v-link 192 for $200 unless anyone can remember a better option for the price. I used to have an Ap2 and PurePower but sold them off and don't have the budget for a high end converter this go around. Btw, I found the AP2/PP to be remarkable. 



smileallways said:


> Hi DAC gurus,
> Does anybody have experience with Mobile Fidelity V-Link II vs Yulong U18 using with Gungnir? I am interested in hearing  opinions about this.


----------



## EraserXIV

I've heard the new Musiland SPDIF interfaces are pretty good. Particularly the 03USD and the new 2012 01USD with the red PCB. Haven't had any personal experience with them but I was planning on giving it a try in the near future as they are quite affordable. 

http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2013/02/06/reader-contribution-musiland-review/

http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/musiland-devices-reader-review/


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks for the suggestions and links! I hadn't heard of the new 2012 01USD yet so I look forward to reading up on it. I just bought a Gungnir tonight on the for sale forums without USB so I need to order something within the next day or so. 



eraserxiv said:


> I've heard the new Musiland SPDIF interfaces are pretty good. Particularly the 03USD and the new 2012 01USD with the red PCB. Haven't had any personal experience with them but I was planning on giving it a try in the near future as they are quite affordable.
> 
> http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2013/02/06/reader-contribution-musiland-review/
> 
> http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/musiland-devices-reader-review/


----------



## Sid-Fi

Wow, just read the claims that the Musiland 03 bested the Evo with linear power supply and AP2 - bold words indeed. 



eraserxiv said:


> I've heard the new Musiland SPDIF interfaces are pretty good. Particularly the 03USD and the new 2012 01USD with the red PCB. Haven't had any personal experience with them but I was planning on giving it a try in the near future as they are quite affordable.
> 
> http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2013/02/06/reader-contribution-musiland-review/
> 
> http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/musiland-devices-reader-review/


----------



## EraserXIV

Yes very bold words, take it all with a grain of salt, but I think there may be some smidgen of truth as he was able to compare some of these units side-by-side. It's pretty hard to find someone who can get their hands on all of those interfaces at the same time.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I ordered the Musiland 03 USD with expedited shipping. I should get it and the Gunginir by the end of next week. It will be hard to separate the performance of the musiland though since I don't have a nice transport and the gungnir doesn't have the USB option.

The reviews gave me just enough confidence to try it. He seemed credible in that he trashed them as DACs and seemed even handed. Other factors in taking the plunge are that I compared a musiland 02usd to the AP2 I used to have a long time ago directly and the difference in SQ was subtle upon brief A/B which surprised and impressed me. Another reason is that the V-Link seems to be on back order at the places that have it and wouldn't arrive any quicker. 

Thanks again for sharing the links. 



eraserxiv said:


> Yes very bold words, take it all with a grain of salt, but I think there may be some smidgen of truth as he was able to compare some of these units side-by-side. It's pretty hard to find someone who can get their hands on all of those interfaces at the same time.


----------



## judmarc

Just another viewpoint: When I first got my Bifrost with the old USB board, the Bifrost's own USB input was much better than my old (24/96) V-Link into the coax or optical input.. The Schiit USB implementation, particularly the new board, is IMO very nicely done and can more than hold its own with inexpensive converters.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Thanks for the other viewpoint. I didn't know there was a new board. I knew that they would occasionally release updated boards, but didn't think it had happened yet. I also didn't see any mention of the new board on their website. Is there a certain place it is on their site?



judmarc said:


> Just another viewpoint: When I first got my Bifrost with the old USB board, the Bifrost's own USB input was much better than my old (24/96) V-Link into the coax or optical input.. The Schiit USB implementation, particularly the new board, is IMO very nicely done and can more than hold its own with inexpensive converters.


----------



## EraserXIV

I think there was a fixed board because the original one was sent out with some issues. Wouldn't really call it an 'updated' board. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## judmarc

eraserxiv said:


> I think there was a fixed board because the original one was sent out with some issues. Wouldn't really call it an 'updated' board. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.




It's updated (for example you can play 176.4kKz resolution files into the USB input now; also, it does seem to me the sound quality has improved, though I can't be certain) and it also takes care of the issue experienced by a small number of customers.


----------



## Sid-Fi

I just hope Schiit Audio will have a place on their website to clearly announce official board upgrades as they occur over time. I would think that is the plan since they have announced they plan to sell upgraded boards to make them "future proof". I know that was a big part of the product strategy and marketing.


----------



## grokit

Has anybody tried the NuForce U192S converter? It's at the same price point as the Schiit USB upgrade.


----------



## rwelles

Quote: 





eraserxiv said:


> I think there was a fixed board because the original one was sent out with some issues. Wouldn't really call it an 'updated' board. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


 
  I'm one of those few Gungnir owners who experienced the dreaded "screech" (intermittent loud metallic resonance). They replaced the USB board with a new design. Two months later, the "screech" reared up its ugly head once more. Jason offered me the choice of a full refund or replace it with a 3rd design (based on the Modi). In spite of my problems, I love their customer service!! I've had the 3rd board about a month, no "screeching" so far. I'm waiting another month or so before I conclude a successful resolution of the problem. 
   
  I don't believe there are specific sonic improvements, just the resolution of the original problem. That's probably why it hasn't been offered as an upgrade. I'm confident that they would offer it as an upgrade if they felt it was an audible improvement over the original USB board. As I remember, the original USB board does do 176.4 KHz, but I could be wrong; it was a while ago.


----------



## Sid-Fi

Nice, thank you for clarifying.



rwelles said:


> I'm one of those few Gungnir owners who experienced the dreaded "screech" (intermittent loud metallic resonance). They replaced the USB board with a new design. Two months later, the "screech" reared up its ugly head once more. Jason offered me the choice of a full refund or replace it with a 3rd design (based on the Modi). In spite of my problems, I love their customer service!! I've had the 3rd board about a month, no "screeching" so far. I'm waiting another month or so before I conclude a successful resolution of the problem.
> 
> I don't believe there are specific sonic improvements, just the resolution of the original problem. That's probably why it hasn't been offered as an upgrade. I'm confident that they would offer it as an upgrade if they felt it was an audible improvement over the original USB board. As I remember, the original USB board does do 176.4 KHz, but I could be wrong; it was a while ago.


----------



## paradoxper

And to add. Jason has said: He doesn't think there's much difference in sound w/ new boards.
   
  BUT!
   
  He also says the new USB boards shipping with 24/176 capability do sound better.
   
   
  So....
   
   
  Haha.


----------



## judmarc

paradoxper said:


> And to add. Jason has said: He doesn't think there's much difference in sound w/ new boards.
> 
> BUT!
> 
> ...




The original USB board did not work with 176.4kHz resolution. Any of the other common resolutions including 192kHz, yes. The board I now have (version 1.20, if I remember correctly from looking at the board when I installed it) does take 176.4kHz input, and I do have the general impression the new one sounds better. I can't be certain, because I sent in the old one and there was a gap of a few days before I installed the new one.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





judmarc said:


> The original USB board did not work with 176.4kHz resolution. Any of the other common resolutions including 192kHz, yes. The board I now have (version 1.20, if I remember correctly from looking at the board when I installed it) does take 176.4kHz input, and I do have the general impression the new one sounds better. I can't be certain, because I sent in the old one and there was a gap of a few days before I installed the new one.


 
  Oh no, I wasn't debating the capability.
   
  I have a very early production unit as well, however it's non USB,
  so not a cause for worry, personally.
   
  I do find it curious that the newer boards sound better, all things being so subjective
  I'm betting it's hard to really nail down the "truth" without DBT.


----------



## judmarc

paradoxper said:


> Oh no, I wasn't debating the capability.
> 
> I have a very early production unit as well, however it's non USB,
> so not a cause for worry, personally.
> ...




Yep, the mention of 176.4 was regarding an earlier comment in the thread rather than yours - apologies for the confusion. I think even DBT has its problems, so I'll leave aside any claims to any sort of objective truth, and just say I'm really enjoying the music.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





judmarc said:


> Yep, the mention of 176.4 was regarding an earlier comment in the thread rather than yours - apologies for the confusion. I think even DBT has its problems, so I'll leave aside any claims to any sort of objective truth, and just say I'm really enjoying the music.


 
  No problem. I also agree with you on DBT. Furthermore, I am too lazy and not a purist science
  lover to even bother with DBT. If it sounds good, cool. If you find it better than x, cool, too.
   
  No reason to inject objectivity into such a subjective experience anyways, methinks.


----------



## Questhate

For anyone interested, here's a review of the Gungnir in comparison to the new X-Sabre and vaunted PWD2: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0ArbLaKZd_-FsdGpvaWxoV2NtaEZYaWQ1ZHZsWkZtWUE#gid=0


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





judmarc said:


> Actually a USB-to-SPDIF converter is a very good example of where digital, unlike analog (e.g., vinyl) can be improved.  Converters allow signals into an SPDIF input to be de-jittered less expensively than trying to do it running a Toslink out of a typical Mac, for instance, direct to the DAC.  (A decent converter will provide jitter specs from a couple hundred picoseconds to much lower, while many Mac optical outputs have jitter in the nanosecond range, i.e., 1000 picoseconds or above).  If your optical signal is lower jitter than Mac hardware tends to be, different story.
> 
> Jitter of course is not the only piece of this.  There's electrical noise, where Toslink is obviously superior to coax and USB, and bandwidth, where the reverse is true.  (That's one reason you often see Toslink limited to 24/96 resolution, and one reason why when Mike Moffat designed an optical connection for Theta it wasn't Toslink.)


 
   
   
  Yup, agreed.  I'm just a serious fan of KISS (Keep it Simple/Stupid) when it comes to Engineering.  And with a decent cable of short length no reason to limit Toslink to 96khz.  The bandwidth on optical *should* be better than coax unless you design for crappy plastic fiber and visible light - aka Toslink.
  I shipped both my USB boards back today (Bifrost and Gungnir) and was asking (and have asked many others) about what model of Mac Pro (deskside) will support S/PDIF at any speed (or build a "Hackintosh" with generic x86-64 HW with high quality S/PDIF).  Jason's response is that with the new USB board I might not need to worry about S/PDIF anymore .. This as opposed to comments he made many months ago (and I paraphrase) that all USB suck compared to S/PDIF and ours is just better than most ..


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

are the usb boards something i can put in myself? i have a non usb version and may want to add it. is it tough to do?


----------



## frankty

The party line is that: "there are no user serviceable parts inside."  The company (Schiit) is held accountable in case the executor of your estate decides to sue them after you open the case whilst still plugged in while taking a shower.  
  I'm sure you can send it back and have it added although it's not at all difficult.  In my case I left a $20 bill under the units at night, to wake up and find the USB boards in anti-static bags.  The Electrician Fairy (a cousin of the Tooth Fairy) takes care of these jobs for me ..


----------



## judmarc

frankty said:


> The party line is that: "there are no user serviceable parts inside."  The company (Schiit) is held accountable in case the executor of your estate decides to sue them after you open the case whilst still plugged in while taking a shower.
> I'm sure you can send it back and have it added although it's not at all difficult.  In my case I left a $20 bill under the units at night, to wake up and find the USB boards in anti-static bags.  The Electrician Fairy (a cousin of the Tooth Fairy) takes care of these jobs for me ..




I had the impression from somewhere that the boards were something customers could install on their own, unlike, for example, individual components (other than tubes). Installing a new USB board is not difficult. Just use due care in getting the contacts seated properly and in removing and refastening the approximately 300 screws.


----------



## SnookAU

Trying to get a new board in Aus... taking fkn ages. Mine screeches and drops in out and through USB (pauses the music really really annoying)


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





smileallways said:


> Hi DAC gurus,
> Does anybody have experience with Mobile Fidelity V-Link II vs Yulong U18 using with Gungnir? I am interested in hearing  opinions about this.


 
   
  I had the Yulong U18 - I returned it and got my money back..


----------



## cradon

Quote: 





questhate said:


> For anyone interested, here's a review of the Gungnir in comparison to the new X-Sabre and vaunted PWD2: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0ArbLaKZd_-FsdGpvaWxoV2NtaEZYaWQ1ZHZsWkZtWUE#gid=0


 
  This really discouraged me as I really like fine detail and he said the Gungnir is week in that area. Just got one in today and gotta say fresh out the box it sounds great, but this is my first source upgrade coming from a Wadia 16 CD player.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ you need to understand how purrin reviews, and what aspects he and anaxilus have come to focus on over many years. A clarification purrin made about this review: "DACs are a very personal thing", something I strongly agree with. He added that the gungnir has grown on him the more he's listened, not something he's experienced with certain others.

If gungnir sounds great to you, take this as a terrific starting point with the bar already set higher than many other dacs.


----------



## grokit

Right, the Gungnir is plenty detailed. It's all about relative context and the level of the competition, and the Gungnir reportedly reaches well above its price class. Slight differences in things like background detail become magnified in comparisons like this, but the Gungnir holds its own when put up against more expensive units.


----------



## Maxvla

grokit said:


> but the Gungnir holds its own when put up against more expensive units.



Except when it doesn't, or even against cheaper units. :wink_face:


----------



## Questhate

Yes, +1 to what AiDee and grokit said. I found the Gungnir review very encouraging actually. I actually regret having to sell mine, but I did so for reasons not related to the sound. Like Purrin said, the Gungnir gets the major things _right_, which is much more than can be said about lots of gear I've heard since I got into this hobby.
   
  Actually, when he found out I sold my Gungnir and "upgraded" to a DAC that retails for over twice as much, he said "What, you sold your Gungnir for _that_ POS?"


----------



## rawrster

What DAC do you have now?


----------



## paradoxper

I also agree with the above, very much so. I have a bit of regret selling Gungnir as well, but have decided
  to upgrade my DAC.
   
  Gungnir didn't do much wrong and closely competes with everything double its price range. IMO.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  How about an example of a less expensive DAC that you think out-performs the Gungnir


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





grokit said:


> How about an example of a less expensive DAC that you think out-performs the Gungnir


 
  Why does it really matter? It's all subjective. He's leaning towards the Concero btw.


----------



## grokit

Nothing really matters in threads like this, but I would like to know what his subjective criteria was for making that statement.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Nothing really matters in threads like this, but I would like to know what his subjective criteria was for making that statement.


 
  Gotcha.


----------



## Questhate

Quote: 





rawrster said:


> What DAC do you have now?


 
   
  I got a Mytek 192 and X-Sabre incoming. I'll likely try that Concero with DSD capabilities whenever that comes out as well. I just needed something with a smaller footprint that I could fit onto my desk. 
   
  To be fair, the jury is still out on the Mytek. I'll probably post comparative impressions once it gets here, but it's a shame I won't have them side-by-side. I didn't expect the Gungnir to sell as fast as it did.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





questhate said:


> *I got a Mytek 192 and X-Sabre incoming.*


 
   
   
  This is the comparison i've been waiting for..   Lets get it on..


----------



## JWahl

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Why does it really matter? It's all subjective. He's leaning towards the Concero btw.


 
  Speaking of, I already have a Concero but I'm considering getting a Gungnir and using the Concero as a USB/SPDIF converter to the Gungnir.  I've read that individually, the Concero and Gungnir as DACs are comparable in overall performance but I'm wondering if combining them in this fashion would yield a reasonable gain, albeit somewhat diminishing?  
   
  The Concero on it's own sounds decent but is essentially a high end converter /w custom FPGA attached to the "DAC on chip" ES9023.  Even the analog output is integrated into the DAC chip.  I imagine there has to be some reasonable improvement by adding the Gungnir to it.  The ES9023 can't be "that" good.  
   
  I'd be using with HD800 and my SA-31 amp btw.  I was considering trying another amp like the Soloist, but I'm not sure there would be much improvement if any for the money, at least without hearing one in my setup first.


----------



## rawrster

Quote: 





questhate said:


> I got a Mytek 192 and X-Sabre incoming. I'll likely try that Concero with DSD capabilities whenever that comes out as well. I just needed something with a smaller footprint that I could fit onto my desk.
> 
> To be fair, the jury is still out on the Mytek. I'll probably post comparative impressions once it gets here, but it's a shame I won't have them side-by-side. I didn't expect the Gungnir to sell as fast as it did.


 
  That's definitely a shame. A comparison with the three would be nice. Actually more so the Matrix dac than the Mytek for me at least.


----------



## redmagic

How is the Gungnir compared to the Bifrost? I will be using the DAC with the Woo Audio WA6-SE as an amp, the LCD-2s and DT-880s as my headphones.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Quote: 





redmagic said:


> How is the Gungnir compared to the Bifrost? I will be using the DAC with the Woo Audio WA6-SE as an amp, the LCD-2s and DT-880s as my headphones.


 
  it was a pretty big upgrade for me. i noticed it right away but it took a little time to blow me over. gungnir needs over 100 hrs of play to start sounding like itself. you'll be able to hear deeper into the music, and the stage is considerably wider. also you'll see that the bass production between the two is no contest. it's a really nice change that was well worth it's cost to me. but please note that it may not hit you right away, like on the first song you play. spend a decent amount of time with it before making any judgments. i didn't and i ate some crow.


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





uncle00jesse said:


> it was a pretty big upgrade for me. i noticed it right away but it took a little time to blow me over. gungnir needs over 100 hrs of play to start sounding like itself. you'll be able to hear deeper into the music, and the stage is considerably wider. also you'll see that the bass production between the two is no contest. it's a really nice change that was well worth it's cost to me. but please note that it may not hit you right away, like on the first song you play. spend a decent amount of time with it before making any judgments. i didn't and i ate some crow.


 
   
  I agree completely on the differences - but maybe because I did not have so many hours on the Bifrost when the Gungnir arrived I noticed the differences *immediately*  I still have both DACs.  The Bifrost is for my "Backpack iPod" (Macbook, BiFrost, Twisted Pear Ventus, Etymotic ER4 or Sennheiser HD800) the other for my Media room: Macbook, Gungnir, Wyrd4sound STI-1000, Philharmonic Audio 3.
   
  Has anyone heard the new Meridian?  (USB powered 24/192 DAC+amp)
  http://www.meridian-audio.com/en/collections/products/explorer-1000/4/
  That would make a "Backpack iPod" exquisitely portable and no more requirement for AC mains power - for 2-3 hrs anyway.
   
  Cheers!
  Frank


----------



## eantala

i just got my mjolnir on Friday, just burning it in haven't done any serious listening yet.
  but wondering if I should try out the Gungnir.  Would the Gungnir be a big upgrade over a Havana (unbalaned version)?


----------



## dan0987

Hey guys. I just got my MAD HD Super II for my rs1i and about to upgrade my DAC. Wondering if gungnir is a good combination for my amp and headphones...
   
  To me the amp sounds great but I expect more non-subtle improvements from the amp which there isn't. So I assumed I should get rid of my weakest link and get a descent DAC, and gungnir costs and has been reviewed like the kind of amp that I'm willing to invest in. But just curious anyone listens to gungnir with rs1i or mapletree amps and how is the combination?


----------



## dan0987

Quote: 





dan0987 said:


> Hey guys. I just got my MAD HD Super II for my rs1i and about to upgrade my DAC. Wondering if gungnir is a good combination for my amp and headphones...
> 
> To me the amp sounds great but I expect more non-subtle improvements from the amp which there isn't. So I assumed I should get rid of my weakest link and get a descent DAC, and gungnir costs and has been reviewed like the kind of amp that I'm willing to invest in. But just curious anyone listens to gungnir with rs1i or mapletree amps and how is the combination?


 
  Also I have to consider getting an interface or something after I get the DAC  I currently use that Musicland 02US as my interface and DAC.


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

Newbie question I'm almost embarrassed to ask:
   
  Does the Gungnir handle SACD?  In other words, if I take my SACD player and plug it into the Gungnir using coax rca (or optical for that matter) will it work?
   
   
  I was probably being naive but It didn't even occur to me when purchasing a $700+ well regarded DAC from a manufacturer that makes a fuss about "high quality sources" on their website but doesn't list out the specific supported sources that it would not handle SACD stereo.
   
   
  I only realized this was even a question worth asking because I stumbled upon Jason's "Schiit SACD/DSD Research Thread" where he says "The topic of SACD and its associated DSD datastream have come up in questions about our DAC products" but he doesn't actually answer it.
   
  I've searched Head-fi for this but failed to come up with anything that states this explicitly.  Schiit's otherwise great FAQ completely skips it.  
   
  Is there a basic assumption across the board that DAC's in general do not handle stereo SACD?  I know my little Fiio E7 doesn't but does this apply to higher end ones as well?  Does the spec "Input Capability: up to 24/192 for all inputs" mean something related to SACD?


----------



## Maxvla

SACD players are restricted from outputting a digital signal for copyright protection. You will find that SACD players will only output analog music when playing an SACD. It is possible, though complicated, to rip an SACD to your computer and play it back on DSD capable DACs in SACD's native format, DSD.


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> SACD players are restricted from outputting a digital signal for copyright protection. You will find that SACD players will only output analog music when playing an SACD. It is possible, though complicated, to rip an SACD to your computer and play it back on DSD capable DACs in SACD's native format, DSD.


 
   
  Thanks for the explanation!
   
  That also explains why it was so darn hard to search on the forum; because everyone is talking about DSD but not SACD players since they are feeding (or wanting to feed) the SACD format to a DAC via a computer (referring to it as DSD) and not straight from an actual SACD player.
   
  It will be interesting to see how CD's fed through the Gungnir via coax from one of my (non-reference) CD players compares to the analog output from my old (also non-reference) DVD/SACD/CD player fed straight into my Woo WA2 compares.  Waiting for both the Gungnir and WA2 to arrive from UPS Friday.


----------



## BokononVolta

As was mentioned, the SACD player connected digitally to the Gungnir (or any DAC) will output silence when you try to play the SACD layer.  If you play a regular CD on that, it will output through the digital port.  I was bummed to discover that a couple years back as well.  My home system DAC ended up being better than the built-in DAC in my SACD player.  I ended up going the probably-not-legal route of getting a specific PS3 that will rip the DSD layer off the SACD.  I converted that DSD to 24/96 (or 24/192) and fed that to my nice DAC from my computer, and that worked well.  
   
  My guess (as was my experience) is that your SACDs (through the SACD player DAC) will sound inferior to your regular CDs (through the Gungnir).  
   
  I, too, am waiting for my Gungnir to arrive hopefully soon.  I am curious how it will work from the Macbook Pro.  Does it consider the toslink optical to be subpar?  If so, then I will probably output via an M2Tech HiFace to coax optical and then out to the Gungnir.  But if I can save the $200 on the M2Tech I definitely would like to!
   
  Good luck!
   
  Quote: 





caffeinatedx42 said:


> Newbie question I'm almost embarrassed to ask:
> 
> Does the Gungnir handle SACD?  In other words, if I take my SACD player and plug it into the Gungnir using coax rca (or optical for that matter) will it work?
> 
> ...


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





bokononvolta said:


> As was mentioned, the SACD player connected digitally to the Gungnir (or any DAC) will output silence when you try to play the SACD layer.  If you play a regular CD on that, it will output through the digital port.  I was bummed to discover that a couple years back as well.  My home system DAC ended up being better than the built-in DAC in my SACD player.  I ended up going the probably-not-legal route of getting a specific PS3 that will rip the DSD layer off the SACD.  I converted that DSD to 24/96 (or 24/192) and fed that to my nice DAC from my computer, and that worked well.
> 
> My guess (as was my experience) is that your SACDs (through the SACD player DAC) will sound inferior to your regular CDs (through the Gungnir).
> 
> ...


 
   
  I too "backup" my SACD via a PS3.  It is not illegal to make backup copies for personal use - I don't *think* that law has changed but who knows there has been a lot of churn in DRM related law recently.  I know that the high-end Oppos used to be able to play SACD rips but that capability was removed "at the request of the studios" about a year ago.  However there *IS* software you can run on your PC or Mac that will either translate the DSD to PCM (.wav, which can be compressed to FLAC).  And also some software that will simply play the SACD ISO rip out some digital interface to your DAC directly.
  So, as long as you can find an old PS3 or a friend nearby who has one, you're still okay.
   
  No toslink I've been able to find will play at > 96khz.  Not on any MacBook-Even Pros, nor Minis.  It *may* be possible to find a Soundcard to fit a Mac Pro (deskside) that can do S/PDIF (coax and toslink are both S/PDIF) if you can get drivers.  The other alternative is to monitor the "Hackintosh" community to find a Motherboard or MB/Soundcard combo which can run OS X and also have the drivers to deal with S/PDIF.  I believe this to be possible but have not run this to ground.
   
  Note that there is no technical reason that toslink is limited to 96k.  I work in the Networking biz and all the best interfaces are optical.
  The problem is the toslink specifications are CRAP.  The light frequency (red visible) and the fiber spec as cheap plastic.  3 meter distance limitation.  Compare this with Long Haul Single Mode Optical fiber which can reliably carry 10gigabit for 80 kilometers!  The signal on these fibers is actually dangerous.  It can burn retinas and (I'm told) even skin.
  See:  *http://www.arcelect.com/fibercable.htm* for all you want to know about optical fiber.
   
  I currently run both my Bifrost and Gungnir on USB.  USB is much improved of late - so I'm told!
   
  "Don't look into the laser with your remaining good eye"
   
  Cheers,
  Frank


----------



## tgx78

I am running 35ft of coaxial cable from v-link192 to gungnir and it works great. Before i had it connected through 40ft optical cable and SQ wasn't as good


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

Quote: 





tgx78 said:


> I am running 35ft of coaxial cable from v-link192 to gungnir and it works great. Before i had it connected through 40ft optical cable and SQ wasn't as good


 

 That is very good information, thanks!


----------



## redmagic

Anyone done a comparison between the Audiolab M-DAC and the Gungnir? I can't decide between the two.


----------



## grokit

Get them both and let us know


----------



## Maxvla

redmagic said:


> Anyone done a comparison between the Audiolab M-DAC and the Gungnir? I can't decide between the two.



I preferred the Gungnir to the M-DAC in a direct A/B.


----------



## redmagic

maxvla said:


> I preferred the Gungnir to the M-DAC in a direct A/B.



What did you like about the Gungnir?


----------



## Girls Generation

Upgrading, have mine for sale. Searching for capable DAC upgrades... I'm realizing Gungnir is a super bargain... My wallet...


----------



## Maxvla

redmagic said:


> What did you like about the Gungnir?



Don't have notes for that meet unfortunately so I can't be precise, but I thought they were pretty close. If you like the AIO aspect of the M-DAC it is still a nice unit, and it looks fantastic, and you should get it. If you only need a DAC I think the Gungnir is better between the two.


----------



## EraserXIV

Quote: 





bokononvolta said:


> SACD player connected digitally to the Gungnir (or any DAC) will output silence when you try to play the SACD layer.  If you play a regular CD on that, it will output through the digital port


 
   
  This is an interesting solution for those who have capable players: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2
   
  My Oppo 980H also silences the digital outputs with you try to play the SACD layer, but it will play the SACD through the HDMI output. This device converts that audio HDMI output to PCM which you can then put into your DAC. I'm sure there may be some stuff lost in translation, it's not ideal, but for that price it's a nifty solution. I haven't personally done it myself yet, but I do know that it works with my Oppo.


----------



## justie

Just to throw it out there, comapring the Violectric V800 and the gungnir, the V800 has better separation and detail extraction but the gungnir has a more (but just slightly) prominent, exciting bass region.


----------



## judmarc

justie said:


> Just to throw it out there, comapring the Violectric V800 and the gungnir, the V800 has better separation and detail extraction but the gungnir has a more (but just slightly) prominent, exciting bass region.




I once knew a girl like that...


----------



## BokononVolta

I just posted about my Mjolnir upgrade over here:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/603218/schiit-mjolnir-headphone-amplifier/2610#post_9309257
   
  The day after my Mjolnir arrived, I received my Gungnir.  I previously was using the Mjolnir (unbalanced) with the Bifrost.  I immediately found the differences apparent in this upgrade to a balanced and upgraded DAC.  The most striking for me was the airiness and atmosphere present in the mid-highs.  Less graininess all through the range as well.  Bass was a bit tighter and more controlled.  I will be going about my work and be hit with a song I have heard 100s of time, but sounding like new. It sounds cheezy, but this DAC upgrade was definitely more noticeable for me than the Amp upgrade.  It really sweetens everything you listen to, but it doesn't thin anything out - it provides the richness and the meat.  A balanced meal!
   
  I am letting the DAC break in with continuous play all weekend and I am anxious to hear how it sounds when I return to work on Monday


----------



## AlphaChicken

Can anyone give me impressions/advice/input on pairing the gungnir/lyr with a pair of HD800s? Will it sound really good? And I do not wanna know if there are tons of things that would sound better with hd800...I already have lyr and gungnir. I would much rather spend my money on a new pair of cans than replace the amp/dac (which I like very much btw) to match the hd800s.
   
  Right now I have akg q701s as my cans. Just wanna know if the hd800s pair well with the amp/dac that I have and if it will be a large improvement over the cans i currently have.


----------



## x838nwy

Enjoying my Gungnir tremendously from my mbp.
I'm just toying with the idea of getting a mjolnir - which brings me to the question for the colllective:

Will the gungnir work if i connect both the unblanced (to my original amp) and the balanced output (to the mjolnir) *at the same time*? If i switch both on, would that kill the gungnir or have strange consequnces?

Thanks

C


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





x838nwy said:


> Enjoying my Gungnir tremendously from my mbp.
> I'm just toying with the idea of getting a mjolnir - which brings me to the question for the colllective:
> 
> Will the gungnir work if i connect both the unblanced (to my original amp) and the balanced output (to the mjolnir) *at the same time*? If i switch both on, would that kill the gungnir or have strange consequnces?
> ...


 
   
  Yes, it will work, no it will not kill the dac.


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

In an effort to save space I'm trying to figure what components can be stacked without danger to sound quality and also without danger to each other (overheating).
   
  Would it likely be fine to stack my Gungnir on top of a Sony cpd-m555es (one of those early 00's 400 disc jukeboxes)?  If yes what about a Woo Audio WA2 on top of the Gungnir?
   
  It might just be that my search-fu is weak today but I wasn't able to find the answer to this elsewhere on the site.  Lots of pics showing other members setups makes me think its probably ok though.


----------



## Maxvla

Gungnir on Sony is fine. WA2 on Gungnir is probably OK, but I've never felt the temperature of a WA2 so you'd have to answer that one. If it's warm by itself you may need some spacer blocks for some underneath airflow.


----------



## smileallways

Quote: 





smileallways said:


> Hi DAC gurus,
> Does anybody have experience with Mobile Fidelity V-Link II vs Yulong U18 using with Gungnir? I am interested in hearing  opinions about this.





   
  I had the Yulong U18 - I returned it and got my money back..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Hi,
      What USB to SPDF converter are you using now?


----------



## mrteal

Please forgive the "noobie" question.....after reading thru this tread I'm wondering:
   
  Should I purchase a SACD or just a CDP if I am planning on upgrading my DAC to a Grace 903? It seams I would not be able to play a SACD thru the DAC to headphones...is that correct?
   
  Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I will reply and advise.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Quote: 





mrteal said:


> Please forgive the "noobie" question.....after reading thru this tread I'm wondering:
> 
> Should I purchase a SACD or just a CDP if I am planning on upgrading my DAC to a Grace 903? It seams I would not be able to play a SACD thru the DAC to headphones...is that correct?
> 
> Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I will reply and advise.


 
  Ok I'll try and keep this some what relevant to the thread
   
  like the gungnir the grace will not process the sacd signal, however you could use a cdp digital out to your dac of choice to allow ced dac to process the digital info.
   
  unlike gungnir you can run se/balanced analog out of a sacd player into the grace and use the unit as a headphone amp


----------



## frankty

Search on PS3 - as in the Sony game console.  It's possible to "backup" your SACD to an .iso file and then play the .iso through your DAC.  The main dependency for this (beside the PS3 hackery) is the software on your computer (mac, pc, linux, whatever) being able to decode the "Orange Book" structure of the .iso then convert the DSD file to PCM.  At one time the Oppo BDP-95 was able to do this until the studios whinged enough, so Oppo blocked it in the firmware.
   
  Good luck!


----------



## mrteal

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Ok I'll try and keep this some what relevant to the thread
> 
> like the gungnir the grace will not process the sacd signal, however you could use a cdp digital out to your dac of choice to allow ced dac to process the digital info.
> 
> unlike gungnir you can run se/balanced analog out of a sacd player into the grace and use the unit as a headphone amp


 
  Forgive me if I'm off topic (maybe I should start a new thread)...but am an "old school" CD guy....spend about 70% of my time listening to my large CD collection.......as I was considering an upgrade  to both my CDP and DAC/Headphone amp....is there any benefit to a SACD-type player? Or just put more dollars to a better DAC(like the Gungnir, etc) and just get a CDP....?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Yeah you might want to make a new thread, I'll pm you here in an hour or so when I get off work about your ?s


----------



## grokit

You're better off with hi-res downloads than with SACD, which has been on the way out for some time now just my opinion.
   
  edit: HDtracks.com seems to be the most popular.


----------



## Maxvla

There is a small but significant library of SACD titles, some 8000. I wouldn't discount them so readily.


----------



## grokit

Just saying that SACD's peak was eons ago in tech years, while there's more and more hi-res downloads every day. Nothing wrong with that--unless you're considering a new SACD player that won't even offer a digital output to your shiny new hi-res DAC, so you'll need to buy a good player to get similar performance in an (almost) duplicated processing effort--maybe those dollars could be better spent.
   
  This coming from a guy with Laserdisc, HD-DVD, and vinyl collections


----------



## judmarc

grokit said:


> Just saying that SACD's peak was eons ago in tech years, while there's more and more hi-res downloads every day. Nothing wrong with that--unless you're considering a new SACD player that won't even offer a digital output to your shiny new hi-res DAC, so you'll need to buy a good player to get similar performance in an (almost) duplicated processing effort--maybe those dollars could be better spent.
> 
> This coming from a guy with Laserdisc, HD-DVD, and vinyl collections :rolleyes:




Just personally - what you say may well be true, probably is. But depending on what you personally like in music, an investment in an old PS3 to hear your SACDs at their best may be worthwhile. I have Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab SACDs and Japanese SHM-SACDs of albums like The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds and The Who's Tommy, and even non-"native" - i.e., converted by my player software to play through my Bifrost - they're the best versions of this music I own. There are also a limited number of DSD downloads available, great-sounding but often expensive. (DSD is the name used for the digital file format on SACDs, but that format can also be stored as downloadable files or on a hard drive, etc.). So to me, where to spend your money is to some extent a question of what music you personally like, whether it is available on SACDs, and whether DSD sounds different enough to you to make the price premium worthwhile.


----------



## frankty

Agree 100% with judmarc - I did/am doig the same thing.  My investment in the PS3 is < $250.  You never know when you'll come across an SACD "bargain" or want some disc that's out-of-print.  I've ordered several (used out-of-print) from around the world because I "had to have" some particular recording or the disc was unavailable in the USA.
   
  It seems HDTracks (or the like, are there any like?  Haven't really found any ..) is the way to go and *usually* new SACD releases end up available there.  Recent example:  "Yes - Close to the Edge."  Amazon (and others) put the SACD up for pre-order MONTHS ago - delayed release several times.  There was no hint it would be available as a download and the day it shipped it magically appeared (with no announcement) on HDTracks.  It just showed up in their catalog - about $10 cheaper.  I've learned.  You can't tell me there was no agreement on NOT publicizing the DL releases until enough of the SACD were sold ..  Gotta curb that "gotta have it now!" and not succumb to the "limited edition, numbered disc" BS.


----------



## preproman

I'm I understanding you right?  Are you saying HDtracks has SACD downloads?  I didn't think they did.


----------



## frankty

No, what I'm saying is that in this case (at least) the minute the SACD was available, the HDTracks DL was also available.  I believe that there may be 2 choices in khz rates, 96khz and 192khz.  SACD are always a multiple of 44.1: 88.2, 176.4 and I don't remember off hand which clock rate this Yes album was on SACD.  Probably 176.4.
   
  So, the bottom line, is that SACD(DSD) was available and PCM versions at 2 clock rates were also (quietly) made available nearly simultaneously.
   
  Needless to say I was a bit annoyed as I'd rather have saved $10 and gotten the non-DRM @ 192 Khz.  I supposed if I had complained Amazon would have let me return it.


----------



## George55

I'm a bit late to this gungnir thread, and am new to the forum.  I wondered if anyone could give me some thoughts about how it sounds?  I have a British amp / power amp which is a little on the lean, slightly bright, revealing side of things.  It sounds great and very detailed, but am looking for a little warmth from whatever DAC I end up with.  I know there is the 15 day return period, but would like to try and get it right first time if possible.  Others have suggested the Rega DAC as it has some of the warmth I probably need to partner with my amp.
   
  Really appreciate any thoughts or feedback people have.


----------



## grokit

The Gungnir does best with a balanced amp, if yours only has single-ended inputs it won't be able to take advantage of this.


----------



## George55

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The Gungnir does best with a balanced amp, if yours only has single-ended inputs it won't be able to take advantage of this.


 
   
  Thanks for the reply.  There are other advantages to the gungnir over, say, the bifrost than balanced outputs though right?  
   
  How would you describe the sound of the gungnir, or is it pretty neutral?


----------



## grokit

Yes. Although I haven't listened to a Bifrost, many have reported comparative improvement with the Gungnir over the Bifrost even when using it single-ended.
   
  I would say it's pretty neutral for how musical it is, some might say it's a bit on the warm side or has an emphasized low end.


----------



## paradoxper

Bifrost and Gungnir share the same sound. Gungnir is definitely a step up. I would say it's also definitely got a emphasized low end, I would not say it's warm.


----------



## elwappo99

Any comparison of this DAC to any of the higher end Audio-GD units? I'm thinking about getting a Mjolnir and I wonder if it wouldn't be too much of a compromise to get this unit too, in order to have that nice looking stack!


----------



## grokit

Other units with an emphasized low end: J-Lo, Christina, ...
   
  Sorry I couldn't resist


----------



## Argo Duck

^LOL

I've heard (and reviewed) Bifrost but not Gungnir. It is definitely neutral, with a slight tendency toward a lighter, brighter sound - clarity rather than warmth. The above-mentioned reviewers also note a slight mid-bass bump and possibly a touch of top-end sibilance - both of which Gungnir does not have they say.


----------



## George55

Quote: 





argo duck said:


> ^LOL
> 
> I've heard (and reviewed) Bifrost but not Gungnir. It is definitely neutral, with a slight tendency toward a lighter, brighter sound - clarity rather than warmth. The above-mentioned reviewers also note a slight mid-bass bump and possibly a touch of top-end sibilance - both of which Gungnir does not have they say.


 
   
  Wow, that's great.  Thanks so much.  Interesting that the gungnir more than held its own against DACs costing significantly more.  As always, there's no substitute for a home demo, but it seems like the gungnir is definitely worth auditioning.  (It's also the DAC I really _WANT_ to like, as the guys there are very responsive and I love the idea that it's upgradeable.  Technology is moving so quickly at the moment in this area that this is a huge plus for me).


----------



## Argo Duck

Yes. These are the best of times, and the worst of times for DACs. The former because there's so much to choose from, the latter because there's so much to choose from 

Among them all, the Schiit guys make a statement (pun intended, new DAC hopefully for release in the next few months)., e.g. read Jason's recent words about discrete versus opamp outputs.

They have firm positions on stuff, and yet could not be better to deal with. Gotta admire that.


----------



## eantala

I just became a proud owner  of a Gungnir today!  sound lovely just using rca's cable.
  have XLR cables coming in next week.
   
  I also have the Mjolnir, how are you suppose to stack it amp on bottom or the dac? 
  I notice the amp has vents on the top but the bottom is what gets toasty...


----------



## BokononVolta

Amp on top. Still runs a lot cooler than my Asgard did.


----------



## Cebolla

Is there any word from Schiit as to how they'll be sorting out the lack of 176.4kHz sample rate via the USB DAC input? Are they going to replace the C-Media CM6631 chip for the officially 176.4kHz capable CM6631A chip (which otherwise has the same spec as the CM6631) or will they continue to look for a solution via new firmware and USB drivers?


----------



## eantala

im pretty happy with my new gungnir..using it with mjonir with some lcd2.2
   
  I thought of getting the HRT HD as its balanced but the thought of usb powered was a turn off.
  I had hrt streamer 2+, and while a great unit for what it was
  it would pop click , etc unless I powered it with a usb hub.
   
  anyway right now its not bad at all using rca cables, how big an improvement can I expect when my balanced cables come in next week?


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





cebolla said:


> Is there any word from Schiit as to how they'll be sorting out the lack of 176.4kHz sample rate via the USB DAC input? Are they going to replace the C-Media CM6631 chip for the officially 176.4kHz capable CM6631A chip (which otherwise has the same spec as the CM6631) or will they continue to look for a solution via new firmware and USB drivers?


 
   
  It's fixed!  Just get an RMA and get your USB upgraded.  I did it for both my Bifrost and Gungnir.  Not only do you get 176.4 but the new USB board definitely SOUNDS better.  I was extremely pleased!  I recommend you ship the unit back to have the board changed.  I changed them myself and it wasn't hard, but there must be some trick to lining up all the LEDs into their *tiny* little holes (especially the Gungnir).  It was more time-consuming than I anticipated.  They have a bazillion screws and are built like brick Schiit houses.  You could drive a truck over one and it wouldn't notice - not that I recommend that ...  
   
  Cheers!
  Frank


----------



## disastermouse

eantala said:


> im pretty happy with my new gungnir..using it with mjonir with some lcd2.2
> 
> I thought of getting the HRT HD as its balanced but the thought of usb powered was a turn off.
> I had hrt streamer 2+, and while a great unit for what it was
> ...



I have an MSII+ and it never clicks or pops. I've run it on two consecutive iMacs with no problems.


----------



## claud W

Would a Gungnir be over kill to use with my Lyr? My Bifrost is nice, but would Gungnir be that much better. I don't want to go balanced.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





claud w said:


> Would a Gungnir be over kill to use with my Lyr? My Bifrost is nice, but would Gungnir be that much better. I don't want to go balanced.


 
  Margins of improvement would be much more noticeable running balanced, but still even using single-ended would yield a step up from Bifrost.


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Margins of improvement would be much more noticeable running balanced, but still even using single-ended would yield a step up from Bifrost.


 
   
  I agree.  When I bought the Gungnir I was going to sell the Bifrost, but it's so much smaller that I held on to it.  They are very similar, the Gungnir most definitely better even with RCAs.  If you can only get one, get the Gundnir.  You won't regret it.


----------



## eantala

Quote: 





disastermouse said:


> I have an MSII+ and it never clicks or pops. I've run it on two consecutive iMacs with no problems.


 
  yes your're correct my post was somewhat misleading, I should of mentioned that what I experienced definitely was dependent on the PC I was using.


----------



## zackzack

A few questions to annoy you guys:
   
  Does Gungnir pair well with 3rd party amp like Burson Soloist or Musical Fidelity?
   
  Would you waste Gungnir potential by pairing it with lower end Asgard 2?


----------



## eantala

just want to report back Im quite happy with the with the Gungnir/Mnolnir stack balanced,  I think I'm done with buying stuff for a while.  for at least a year in not a few..


----------



## commtrd

Quote: 





eantala said:


> just want to report back Im quite happy with the with the Gungnir/Mnolnir stack balanced,  I think I'm done with buying stuff for a while.  for at least a year in not a few..


 
  +1 Totally happy with my Mjolnir/Gungnir. Maybe some LCD3 someday but for now all good.


----------



## eantala

Quote: 





commtrd said:


> +1 Totally happy with my Mjolnir/Gungnir. Maybe some LCD3 someday but for now all good.


 
  lol, having the lcd2 & he500, I heard the lcd3 and he6 at a show and while they were really quite good.
  The stax 009 blew my mind with acoustics genre's but having to buy a separate amp for it and everything seems like a lot of time and money.
   
  I still went home and was satisfied with what I have.


----------



## Jones Bob

Installed the updated USB in my Gungnir a week or so ago, and also noted a slight increase in SQ. Good job, Jason. 

But the biggest improvement is in supporting 32/176.4 datastreams. Especially in Audirvana v1.4.9.9 with 4x upsampling via Izotope. 

I have had several NOS DACs in the past (Audionote, Altmann) and enjoyed the edgless natural sound reproduction they made. With my current rig, I had played around with the Izotope software 2x upsampling at 24 bit, earlier and was not at all impressed, considering it a step back in SQ. Now using at 4x at 32 bit, and playing with the parameters, the sound of my LCD-3s have opened up the soundstage substantially, and any digital edge can be adjusted out. More details are naturally reproduced. Have not played around with it enough yet to give any specific pointers to others, except to try it with your Gungnir (if you have the new USB, a Mac and Audirvana). There is a thread on Computer Audiophile about setting the parameters.

The non-ASRC front end of the Gungnir makes this possible. Another good job, Jason.


----------



## dleblanc343

Time to start saving up for statement dac, anyone need a gungnir with usb?


----------



## EraserXIV

dleblanc343 said:


> Time to start saving up for statement dac, anyone need a gungnir with usb?



Has there been an announcement?


----------



## zackzack

Quote: 





zackzack said:


> A few questions to annoy you guys:
> 
> Does Gungnir pair well with 3rd party amp like Burson Soloist or Musical Fidelity?
> 
> Would you waste Gungnir potential by pairing it with lower end Asgard 2?


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





zackzack said:


>





> A few questions to annoy you guys:
> 
> Does Gungnir pair well with 3rd party amp like Burson Soloist or Musical Fidelity?
> 
> Would you waste Gungnir potential by pairing it with lower end Asgard 2?


 
   
  Purrin at changestar compared the Gungnir and it was in his opinion the second best DAC only to the PS Audio Perfectwave 2 ($3995 DAC). He praises it's neutrality and the fact that it does nothing offensive, so I think it would be an awesome pair with any amp.
   
  As for wasting it's potential, this HIGHLY depends on what gear you're driving. HD-800's would be revealing of gungnir vs lower end DAC's and HD-650's maybe not so much. YMMV.


----------



## neo0617

I have a problem with the Gungnir DAC. Let's see if anyone can input more thoughts into this ..
   
  My setup:
PC (Optical Out) / Notebook (USB) -> Gungnir -> Meier Corda Classic -> HD650 / ES5
 
  When I left the Gungnir open for about 10 ~ 30 mins, it will have a slight hum (like a ground loop noise).
  It will grow louder and louder and reach a point I could not tolerate (about 1 hour later).
  Then I switch the unit off for a night and the noise will go away.
  However when I turn it on again it will repeat the same loop. 
   
I have sent the unit back to Jason and they have checked there is no problem. 
   
  What I have swapped so far and they do not help ..
  1. cabling 
  2. power outlet 
  3. amp (cheap China amp + some portable amp from RSA / Pico)
  4. source file (no matter 16/44.1 / 16/48 / 24/96 )
  5. DAC (again cheap China DAC, no problem with these setup)
   
  Any thoughts / input are appreciated. Thanks all !!


----------



## Jones Bob

Electronic hum through the headphones, or a mechanical hum from the Gungnir?


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





eraserxiv said:


> Has there been an announcement?


 
   
  There was a hint at one today. 
   
   
  Also, I'd still love input if anyone has compared this unit to the higher end Audio-GD Dacs.


----------



## EraserXIV

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> There was a hint at one today.
> 
> 
> Also, I'd still love input if anyone has compared this unit to the higher end Audio-GD Dacs.


 
   
  Which thread?


----------



## Jones Bob

eraserxiv said:


> Which thread?




http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/2145


----------



## neo0617

Quote: 





jones bob said:


> Electronic hum through the headphones, or a mechanical hum from the Gungnir?


 
  electronic hum through the headphone
   
  tried 2 pairs of ground loop isolator - the hum remains


----------



## Sonic Defender

I just received my Gungnir today, love the sound, but I may have found a deal breaker. I'm shocked to find that Schiit elected not to support WASAPI Event Style and only supports WASAPI. As I'm sure you know, WASAPI has problems with playback delays as it pushes instead of pulls from JRiver. Suddenly I am getting these stutters when my Audiolab 8200 never, ever, had any such issue at all. I am not thrilled with this as it seems to me to be a design error. If my 8200 can support both WASAPI modes I fail to see why the Gungnir can't, or doesn't. Now Jason suggested that push works with all systems where the pull style of Event Style WASAPI is less reliable, but my experience might suggest otherwise (yes I know I am drawing a conclusion from a sample of one). My computer is an older Dell, but it is just a music server, and with the 8200 it was flawless, never a stutter under JRiver or Foobar 2000. I might have to turn around and sell the Gungnir simply over this as playback delays should be unacceptable. Maybe I'm being unrealistic, have any of you experienced these playback delays? Might ASIO work to give me bitperfect playback with the Gungnir? Thanks.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Just wanted to add that Jason and Schiit have always been a class act and very responsive, and I do not wish my comments which are fueled by frustration to sound like I think Schiit is in anyway less than a stellar company. And damn does the Gungnir sound good! I just hope I can get this stutter problem taken care of. I should also retract the use of the term design flaw as that is very presumptious of me to use as I posses zero real knolwedge about how these devices are designed and built. It sounds like I can just go ASIO and my computer will be getting upgraded soon. Thoughts still welcome.


----------



## dleblanc343

sonic defender said:


> Just wanted to add that Jason and Schiit have always been a class act and very responsive, and I do not wish my comments which are fueled by frustration to sound like I think Schiit is in anyway less than a stellar company. And damn does the Gungnir sound good! I just hope I can get this stutter problem taken care of. I should also retract the use of the term design flaw as that is very presumptious of me to use as I posses zero real knolwedge about how these devices are designed and built. It sounds like I can just go ASIO and my computer will be getting upgraded soon. Thoughts still welcome.



I feel bad it's not A1for you, unfortunately I'm not good with technical stuff so I can't really help you. I too use Jriver and never had playback issues; maybe it's the cruddy usb cable.


----------



## grokit

I had issues going into the Gungnir's USB input with an old Power-PC Mac Mini running Tiger, but one of these did the trick:
   

   
  Actually this one did not work but an older one that looks identical except it is blue did. The Gungnir doesn't seem to like older USB (1.1?) audio standards.
   
  Anyways my point is to try a converter, you don't have to spend much and the Gungnir's coax inputs are better anyways.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Hi grokit, thanks for the suggestions, which I will try in the very near future. In the meantime I have a few questions for you if I might. Computer audio isn't my strength so I'm learning.
   
  (1) Is the USB standard on the computer implemented via the OS (I'm using Win 7), or is it a firmware thing (in which case my 7 year old Dell is certainly an issue). I am about to upgrade it to a 4 year old Dell that at least has a dual core CPU. That said, I only use this as a music server and my Audiolab 8200 had no issues at all with either WASAPI mode.
   
  (2) Where did you source that converter, and at the risk of sounding ignorant, how is it used? I know there is a COAX input on the Gungnir, but does the USB out from the computer interface with the converter?
   
  (3) I was planning to upgrade to the newer USB card from Schiit, might this and a newer computer help/eliminate the playback delay issue?
   
  I am currently using ASIO and it is better, I do still get a few hiccups (one just happened now) perhaps one every 5 - 6 minutes which does suck. I'm tempted to try a dual OS machine with a Linux partion to see if that helps (Jason says their testing indicates that Linux provides the best audio).
   
  Any and all thoughts/suggestions welcome. I really like the sound of the Gungnir, I would need to do more testing, but I think it has better bass in terms of control than the 8200, but not completely sure as of yet. I am sure that the mids are more forward (in a good way) through the Gungnir.


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





sonic defender said:


> Hi grokit, thanks for the suggestions, which I will try in the very near future. In the meantime I have a few questions for you if I might. Computer audio isn't my strength so I'm learning.
> 
> (1) Is the USB standard on the computer implemented via the OS (I'm using Win 7), or is it a firmware thing (in which case my 7 year old Dell is certainly an issue). I am about to upgrade it to a 4 year old Dell that at least has a dual core CPU. That said, I only use this as a music server and my Audiolab 8200 had no issues at all with either WASAPI mode.
> 
> ...


 
  It's the hardware in the old laptop.  Firmware and/or drivers will not help.  USB 2.0 is a minimum.
  You will also want to use something other than the stock Windows USB driver so as to get speeds above 24bit/96khz.
  I did the USB upgrade on both Bifrost and Gungnir.  Better sound quality, and support of 176.2khz
   
  Cheers,
  Frank


----------



## Sonic Defender

Hi Frank, thanks for the input. It actually is a desktop (retired government work station). I will be getting a newer (4 year old Dell soon). I found a link that will lead to a Microsoft fix that might help people experiencing similar problems. Essentially there is a common problem where Win 7 users have issues with their USB interfaces being unsigned which results in them being operated as 1.1 rather than 2.0. The link I am about to post was a free test/fix, but the author updated the page to reflect that MS finally fixed the problem and he has posted a link to the proper update page on Microsoft.com. I ran the update and so far my ASIO mode is working without any playback issues (didn't help my WASAPI sadly).
   
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/24666-The-Windows-7-SP1-USB-Driver-Bug-(what-it-is-and-how-to-fix-it


----------



## frankty

Ah, cool.  So it *is* really a USB 2 device that just has the wrong drivers.  Sounds like progress.  Bon chance!


----------



## Sonic Defender

Well, strike that, the playback hitches still occur, but seemingly less so. I can only hope that the newer hardware/USB update helps. Does anybody know if I can get a Linux build that allows JRiver 18 to run? If I understand Jason correctly I should not have these issues under Linux or Mac, but I won't get a Mac machine (Not going to pay those premium prices just to have a machine you can't do anything to).


----------



## grokit

I will just chime in on #2, the pictured converter has a USB "B"input on the other side, it cost < $50 on eBay, and will limit you to 16/48. There are some great $200 converters that will do 24/192, which is what I use with I use my modern Mac Mini. I will also add that the (early version at least) USB input of the Gungnir works great with an iPad/CCK.


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





sonic defender said:


> Well, strike that, the playback hitches still occur, but seemingly less so. I can only hope that the newer hardware/USB update helps. Does anybody know if I can get a Linux build that allows JRiver 18 to run? If I understand Jason correctly I should not have these issues under Linux or Mac, but I won't get a Mac machine (Not going to pay those premium prices just to have a machine you can't do anything to).


 
   
  Check out:   http://quocomputer.com/
   
  You can make it as cheap, or as fast as you want.  "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?"
   
  I have one of these boards inbound from the original KickStarter crowdfunding with the sole purpose of being my media center appliance.  I have Audirvana+ and I bought a copy of JRiver for the MAC at the intro price.  Currently I use a MacBook pro 15" which is "borrowed."


----------



## BokononVolta

Quote: 





sonic defender said:


> (Not going to pay those premium prices just to have a machine you can't do anything to).


 
   
  Then again, the mac users aren't posting any problems with music streaming ;-p
   
  Seriously though, Ideally you shouldn't have to resort to switching OS for your music playback.  Hopefully you can get things working on your preferred Windows platform...


----------



## Sonic Defender

Quote: 





bokononvolta said:


> Then again, the mac users aren't posting any problems with music streaming ;-p
> 
> Seriously though, Ideally you shouldn't have to resort to switching OS for your music playback.  Hopefully you can get things working on your preferred Windows platform...


 
   
  I hear you, but Mac users pay through the teeth for that very small benefit, at least from what I can tell. While this is counter-intuitive I took Jason's suggestion and tried setting the buffer time in ASIO to a lower as opposed to higher setting and based on a solid half hour of play time without a playback pause, I would say it seems to help. I am looking forward to the updated USB card and newer computer hardware. I am very happy with the Gungnir's sound so far, certainly different than the very good Audiolab 8200. By the way, at the $650 I'm selling mine at, that is a stupid deal. The DAC in it seems so good that I am going to have to have a shot-out with the Gungnir before I actually let the 8200 go. As well you get a very good transport and analog stage. I know, selling stuff in a non-sales forum, slightly un-cool, but the 8200 is so nice it deserves the attention. How many people have had a chance to hear the 8200?


----------



## Sonic Defender

I could just freakin scream. I wrote a nice, detailed review/impression of this amazing DAC, and when I was spell checking it, the damn site kicked me out of the editor and lost my work. Damn that is frustrating after writiing away. I'll have to hope I can recapture the words which really conveyed and fit my impressions.


----------



## petitrouge

About Linux Mint Maya:
   
  Hello
 yesterday it was time my Gungnir has arrived.
 It harmonizes perfectly with the Bryston and the source files are easily transferred via USB.
 My Lapptopp runs Linux Maya13 and when I use the player Audacious where the DAC is easily recognized.
   

   
  Thanks to Schiit for this great job!
   
  Greetings from Germany
   
  Jens


----------



## judmarc

Sonic Defender, just a word of general advice: if you haven't tried Linux before , do it prior to making a decision to use it with your Gungnir. This would be just for purposes of familiarizing yourself a little, so you're not trying to learn Linux and resolve any little playback issues at the same time.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Quote: 





judmarc said:


> Sonic Defender, just a word of general advice: if you haven't tried Linux before , do it prior to making a decision to use it with your Gungnir. This would be just for purposes of familiarizing yourself a little, so you're not trying to learn Linux and resolve any little playback issues at the same time.


 
  Good advice, and I briefly had a dual-boot with Linux before. This will just be on a music server so deep knowledge of Linux will likley not be necessary. So far the playback stutter issue has been resolved by using ASIO, and counter-intuitively, I set the buffer time lower which Jason suggested sometimes helps. I have had a few long sessions in this configuration with no issues. Love the DAC, really well designed, but I'll be more detailed about my impressions later. Just came back from a wedding where I kind of drank hard with some friends so certainly feeling that. Cheers.


----------



## Sonic Defender

What I think most stands out to me about the Gungnir is that for me this DAC does detail properly (not meaning others don't of course). What I find is that while there is a deep resolution of detail, subtle and nuanced, the detail isn't supreme unto itself. Gungnir doesn't seem to present detail as an isolated thing, rather the details all fit well, they reinforce each other in a very balanced, and articulate presentation. When comparing to the 8200 the most obvious difference is that the Gungnir produces really well scaled bass. The 8200 has plenty of bass extension, however it is slightly warmer and to my ears perhaps a little less controlled. As I have been so accustomed to the 8200's sound at first I felt the Gungnir bass was significantly less, however it didn't take me long to realise what was really going on here. The Gungnir is very controlled and detailed in the bass, it remains tight and controlled throught the range of lows. I here more detail that is unmistakeable, there is overall more detail, plus a micro detail that is very, very impressive. It is unfortunate that words often fail us when we are trying to convey something as intricate as perception, and sadly I can't do justice with words to what I am hearing. Without a doubt this is the most compelling and musical interpretation of what a properly designed and implemented lower frequency response should sound like that I have heard. I am sure that somebody with a very experienced and gifted ear (Mike Schiit) had his hands all over the DAC itself. You would need a very, very experienced ear to be able to present such a "right sounding" lower frequency signature like this. You would have to be a music fan who listens to and enjoys a huge variety of music and who equally wants to share that appreciation.
   
  I think the language of art that I am using is very fitting as this DAC seems to me to be sonic art, The mids are very rich and just forward enough to reinforce the depth and presence of the music. I am hearing a more 3 D presentation, not massively so, but nonetheless, a very good stage that includes depth. Vocals sound more natural and oriented better in the sound, there is a richness that comes from being forward enough, but not over-presented. It also seems to me that the lower-mids, and the upper-lows remain distinct and in very good balance to one another, additive and not in competition. I do not want to represent these qualities as this landslide, night and day improvement over the 8200, that wouldn't be at all correct, but the differences are for me, quite apparent, and to the point where the return on investment with the Gungnir is quite favourable. I always have a hard time describing how I respond to the higher frequencies. I think highs by their nature are frequencies that our brain will not lock onto as easily and for as long without effort. I always find that if I really want to be able to talk about what I hear up high, I have to actually work to focus and listen intently, and even then I find it hard to remain locked into them. I think these frequencies would have the most potential to be perceived as an irritant, and perhaps that is why I have such a hard time. Lets face it, while there is some wonderful musical impulses in the high frequencies, we all know that a significant amount of any punishment a recording will deliver to our brain, will be here. Okay, done trying to make sense there, not working well. I find the Gungnir to be smartly respectful of the high-frequency tight-rope that needs to be kept in mind, to little emphasis and focus here and you have an overly rolled off and perhaps boring signature, too much energy and you may have a fatiguing, and strident sound. There doesn't seem to be a great margin for error here as almost every thread I have read here and elsewhere on the subject indicates to me that most people are quite sensitive to the high-frequencies. The Gungnir is very detailed, but again, a skilled hand and ear struck that proper balance. Highs are rewarding and enagaging, not punishing or boring. I will need more time with the Gungnir to really get a handle on this aspect of the sound, but I know enough already to know that it is a very, very nice sounding DAC. I couldn't be happier with the sound and I am equally happy to report that even with my 7 year old Dell music server, I am currently not experiencing those horrible playback stutters.


----------



## Erukian

It's always interesting to see what other people think. If I were you I'd compare what you think of the DAC with changestar's spreadsheet comparison and see where your thoughts align.
   
  I don't brag or really even talk about my gear but when friends and family ask, I always invite the listen and they're usually blown away by the sound. Also with how huge/ugly the LCD-2's are, lol.


----------



## smileallways

Hi DAC Gurus,
    I  have a Schiit Gungnir without USB. I am trying to decide between the new Schitt USB card , M2Tech hi face 2 and Musiland 2012  03 USD  USB 3.0 Digital sound card to SPDIF device.  Please share if you have any experience with using these devices.  Any suggestions are appreciated.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Quote: 





smileallways said:


> Hi DAC Gurus,
> I  have a Schiit Gungnir without USB. I am trying to decide between the new Schitt USB card , M2Tech hi face 2 and Musiland 2012  03 USD  USB 3.0 Digital sound card to SPDIF device.  Please share if you have any experience with using these devices.  Any suggestions are appreciated.


 
  Welcome to head-fi. I wish I could offer you any suggestions/thoughts, but I can't. I'm sure others will be more than happy and able to help.


----------



## joebobbilly

I'm bout to get my Gungnir tomorrow, and just wondering... I currently run foobar2000 with WASAPI event SPDIF into my DAC via TOSLINK from my motherboard. 
   
  ... if WASAPI "event" mode is about the device "pulling" then doesn't it need to communicate with the computer? If so, how is SPDIF via TOSLINK able to handle event mode?!?!
   
  Sorry if I seem to be asking an insanely stupid noob question. I really am not familiar with this and would like better understanding.


----------



## Sonic Defender

You can't use event mode with Gungnir so don't waste your time. Just use ASIO as it is also bitperfect.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Quote: 





erukian said:


> It's always interesting to see what other people think. If I were you I'd compare what you think of the DAC with changestar's spreadsheet comparison and see where your thoughts align.
> 
> I don't brag or really even talk about my gear but when friends and family ask, I always invite the listen and they're usually blown away by the sound. Also with how huge/ugly the LCD-2's are, lol.


 
  Finally had time to look at the spreadsheet, thanks for the suggestion. I would in general concur, but I don't actually try and analyze sound on such a detailed level, so agree with his really micro-focused points would be impossible for me, at least at this point. Very good guide, and I am glad that some people have, and take the time to write such detailed impressions. Very helpful, albeit very subjective one would suspect.


----------



## justie

Quote: 





sonic defender said:


> You can't use event mode with Gungnir so don't waste your time. Just use ASIO as it is also bitperfect.


 
  Wasapi event mode with foobar2000 works fine on my gungnir. using TOSLINK as well


----------



## joebobbilly

WASAPI event seems to work for me... though it's through TOSLINK, not USB... could that be why?


----------



## Sonic Defender

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> WASAPI event seems to work for me... though it's through TOSLINK, not USB... could that be why?


 
  That must be it. I was trying USB and Jason at Schiit told me it wasn't supported with Gungnir. I didn't think he meant only via USB, but I guess that is what he must have meant. My bad, glad to hear it is working for you and others. Exits room with egg still on face, the silent crowd feels sorry for him ....


----------



## justie

Hey guys, has anyone tried using a USB 3.0 cable with the gungnir before? Also, is there even a difference between a usb 2 and usb 3 cable?
   
  EDIT: nvm, just realised the usb3.0 male B plug is different.


----------



## zackzack

Let me ask you a newbie question:
  Is a balanced DAC like Gungnir wasted if hooked up
  to a single ended amplifier?


----------



## Sonic Defender

The benefit of the balanced DAC design is still passed through to the amplifier, however at that point your audio signal will become will be a single channel signal. My understanding is that whatever difference seems to be detected with fully balanced rigs is modest. I have heard from experienced posters that there is very little if any difference, others feel there is a difference that they can hear. Hopefully a few members who run balanced designs can chime in. I would think the effect might be in the magnitude of a biwired speakers versus single wired speakers, again here the difference if at all noticeable is minor, at least in my experience.


----------



## zackzack

Quote: 





sonic defender said:


> The benefit of the balanced DAC design is still passed through to the amplifier, however at that point your audio signal will become will be a single channel signal. My understanding is that whatever difference seems to be detected with fully balanced rigs is modest. I have heard from experienced posters that there is very little if any difference, others feel there is a difference that they can hear. Hopefully a few members who run balanced designs can chime in. I would think the effect might be in the magnitude of a biwired speakers versus single wired speakers, again here the difference if at all noticeable is minor, at least in my experience.


 
   
  You are saying the benefit of a fully balanced DAC can only be heard through a balanced amplifier


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





zackzack said:


> You are saying the benefit of a fully balanced DAC can only be heard through a balanced amplifier


 
   
  I believe in theory that is correct (EDIT: at least from what other more educated engineers and experienced individuals have taught me). I've only tried two balanced rigs... my own, and another from a meet (was older balanced amp from Headroom I believe... don't remember the DAC, but that was balanced too). To my ears, the biggest difference was the soundstage and imaging improvement that I heard. Of course, with most balanced amps being very well designed in the first place, the improvements to overall transparency and resolution were noticeable too.
   
  I A/Bed my Gungnir with a friend's Lyr and my Mojo and still found the soundstage and imaging to be better when balanced... however, the difference was not huge (could be an amp difference or simply cause of the tubes in the Lyr? He was using the JJs). In the end, it's best if you can demo one @ a meet or something. Gotta let your own ears decide for your wallet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Worst case scenario... you could do the Schiit 15 day return policy and try out their balanced stack (just remember you can only do that once per year 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





zackzack said:


> You are saying the benefit of a fully balanced DAC can only be heard through a balanced amplifier


 
  This could be a pretty simple A/B if you connect a Mjo/Gun stack with both balanced and single ended ICs and switched the Mjolnir between SE and balanced.  You could even enlist a friend for a blind test to see if there is a placebo free difference.


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





justie said:


> Hey guys, has anyone tried using a USB 3.0 cable with the gungnir before? Also, is there even a difference between a usb 2 and usb 3 cable?
> 
> EDIT: nvm, just realised the usb3.0 male B plug is different.


 
  Bits is bits. They are either there "1" or absent "0" -- if the existing cable does not "lose" bits, then no amount of cable improvement will make any sonic difference.  Period.  
   
  I'm not sure if there are any cable eval tools.  One way to do it would be to hang a large disk drive off your USB and test cable and turn on disk driver debugging (using some sort of Linux) to see if there are any read/write errors, then pump data to it all day long.  A 6MB/sec disk or SSD would be the best.
   
  Cheers,
  Frank


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





pelli said:


> This could be a pretty simple A/B if you connect a Mjo/Gun stack with both balanced and single ended ICs and switched the Mjolnir between SE and balanced.  You could even enlist a friend for a blind test to see if there is a placebo free difference.


 
   
  I have both the Gungnir and an Uber Bifrost.  When either drive my single ended headphone amp (Twisted Pear Ventus) I can NOT tell the difference.  I CAN tell the difference when I A/B them to my Wyred4sound STI-1000 as it has both balanced and single ended inputs.  Before I upgraded the Bifrost to Uber, I could tell the difference between the two DACs on phones.
   
  Phones are Sennheiser HD800, DACs are USB driven with 24/192khz material via a MacBook Pro and Audirvana+
   
  Cheers,
  Frank


----------



## judmarc

"Bits is bits. They are either there '1' or absent '0' -- if the existing cable does not 'lose' bits, then no amount of cable improvement will make any sonic difference. Period." Without wanting to get into this time-honored disagreement yet again, let me gently suggest a couple of potential considerations. I am no expert, so what I'm suggesting could just be trash and ignorable, in which case, go ahead and ignore it. - Thought experiment: No music playing through the cable. Lots of electrical noise, though. Can you hear it? If we're not talking about an optical cable, then sure, it's an electrical wire. The fact that someone slaps the label "USB" on it doesn't make it suddenly immune to electrical noise. So if one cable deals with noise better than another, there's a potential difference. - Reading through a white paper by the former ESS SABRE DAC developers (now Resonessence), I saw a paragraph about how it is critical for the DAC chip to have a constant voltage level for comparison when it's evaluating whether a bit is 1 or 0 and the time when changeover occurs. So electrical noise in the power used by the DAC chip might potentially result in jitter. - Electrical noise into the DAC's clock(s) might also conceivably cause jitter. A link to some pictures and text (not by a native English speaker) that might be of interest in this connection: http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2557.msg26459#msg26459


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





judmarc said:


> "Bits is bits. They are either there '1' or absent '0' -- if the existing cable does not 'lose' bits, then no amount of cable improvement will make any sonic difference. Period." Without wanting to get into this time-honored disagreement yet again, let me gently suggest a couple of potential considerations. I am no expert, so what I'm suggesting could just be trash and ignorable, in which case, go ahead and ignore it. - Thought experiment: No music playing through the cable. Lots of electrical noise, though. Can you hear it? If we're not talking about an optical cable, then sure, it's an electrical wire. The fact that someone slaps the label "USB" on it doesn't make it suddenly immune to electrical noise. So if one cable deals with noise better than another, there's a potential difference. - Reading through a white paper by the former ESS SABRE DAC developers (now Resonessence), I saw a paragraph about how it is critical for the DAC chip to have a constant voltage level for comparison when it's evaluating whether a bit is 1 or 0 and the time when changeover occurs. So electrical noise in the power used by the DAC chip might potentially result in jitter. - Electrical noise into the DAC's clock(s) might also conceivably cause jitter. A link to some pictures and text (not by a native English speaker) that might be of interest in this connection: http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2557.msg26459#msg26459


 
   
  I DO NOT disagree with judmarc's caveat.  Yes, noise and other interference CAN make a difference.  I'm sure there is some threshold where suddenly - and it WILL be suddenly - the cable causes errors.  Or a super-cheap or damaged cable is simply not up to snuff.  Whether the noise causes jitter or loss, the plot of where the loss/jitter occurs will be a step, not some nice curve on a graph.
   
  The data wires in USB are twisted pair - this eliminates most noise.  Compare to speed and reach of Gigabit Ethernet where the spec is 100 meters on twisted pair.  USB also includes grounded shielding whereas GigE does not.  Some USB cables have ferrite cores on each end, this will also help.
   
  One interesting factoid is that USB2.0 is limited to 5 meters simply because the spec requires a 1.5 micro-second response (turn-around time) to a command, else it considers the command lost.
   
  There is a lot of good info on Wikipedia (take with grains of salt): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus
   
  This site has a fairly coherent description of async USB:  http://audiophilleo.com/definitions.aspx?Asynchronous%20USB
   
  The bottom line is that there are LOTS of other places that are more likely to cause audio degradation than the USB cable!
   
  That being said, if using Windoze there is a tool:  http://www.usblyzer.com/  that could help.  It has a 33 day free trial.
   
  Cheers,
  Frank


----------



## CaffeinatedX42

Is there a way to connect an iphone (either 4 or 5) to the Gungnir successfully?
   
  I have the Apple Camera Connection Kit, and it works great with my 3rd gen iPad connected to the Gungnir.  It doesn't, however work with the iphone, which is mentioned in other threads.
   
  I've searched this thread pretty thoroughly and couldn't find an answer so hopefully this question isn't a repeat.


----------



## Erukian

You need a airplay compatible device to get digital out of iPhones. I'd suggest the Apple TV or AirPort express. If you do pick up one of those devices, make sure you look out for the "buy better gear" light (far right).
   
  That's the easy solution, the probably better but more difficult one is installing XBMC and enabling it's AirPlay services to stream music from your phone, to your PC and out it's digital port.
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrSfqOWETv8
   
  Good luck!


----------



## grokit

Don't forget about the Pure i20, it will extract the spdif signal from an iPod/iPhone and send it to the Gungnir via toslink or coaxial and includes a remote for $99.


----------



## Gerzom

As of last night I'm the proud owner of a Gungnir. This is an upgrade from my beloved Bifrost and even after one hour of listning I'm really glad I decided to move up to the Gungnir. This is a big step forwards in sound quality


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Don't forget about the Pure i20, it will extract the spdif signal from an iPod/iPhone and send it to the Gungnir via toslink or coaxial and includes a remote for $99.


 
  For the iPhone 5 you will need the lightning to 30 pin adaptor to hook up to the Pure i20 or wadia 170i


----------



## catspaw

Hi guys!
   
  Forgive my ignorance but, this thing can be connected to non-balanced equipemnt right?
  I have the HE-400 headphones and the Schiit asgard 1 and im wonderig if I should aim for this or the Bifrost (im much more inclined to get this, thou i know Ill have to save cash for a few months).


----------



## BokononVolta

Quote: 





catspaw said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Forgive my ignorance but, this thing can be connected to non-balanced equipemnt right?
> I have the HE-400 headphones and the Schiit asgard 1 and im wonderig if I should aim for this or the Bifrost (im much more inclined to get this, thou i know Ill have to save cash for a few months).


 
  Yup.
  I have the HE-4 and previous had the Valhalla connected to my Gungnir before I ponied up for the Mjolnir...
  -terry


----------



## catspaw

Quote: 





bokononvolta said:


> Yup.
> I have the HE-4 and previous had the Valhalla connected to my Gungnir before I ponied up for the Mjolnir...
> -terry


 
  Cool, thx.
  Now only to save up cash . My wallet has been too sorry for the last months.


----------



## nilov

Hi.
  Sorry for my english...
  Which connection Gungnir playing better,with coax or usb gen 2.Who may tell me?
  Thanks..


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





nilov said:


> Hi.
> Sorry for my english...
> Which connection Gungnir playing better,with coax or usb gen 2.Who may tell me?
> Thanks..


 
   
  Usually coax, although some prefer USB depending on the quality of their other options.


----------



## the8o88y

I recently paired my LCD2.2s with Mjolnir/Gungnir and am enjoying the setup immensely. I'm running optical from amp/DAC to XPS Dell desktop, which I've found isn't a great option because the ports don't provide a solid connection, and I've experienced popping/crackling noise and music cutting in and out from the LCD's.
   
  I'm considering either sending in the Gungnir for the usb 2.0 upgrade, or getting the MF V-Link 192. I e-mailed Jason at Schiit, and he suggested that if I were to go usb, to get the upgrade, as their usb is better than most of the converters out there. Can anyone who's tried both suggest the better route to take? Thanks.


----------



## judmarc

Tried Schiit's earlier USB in the Bifrost vs the earlier V-Link, and no contest: Bifrost's own USB was better.


----------



## HeyWaj10

I was wondering the same thing: whether the USB upgrade to the Gungnir was better than using an external USB-S/PDIF converter.  If the new USB implementation is truly better (or at least equal to), would you guys consider the Gungnir an end-game DAC?  I have a Bifrost now (non-USB, non-Uber), and want to believe that due to Schiit's upgradeable design, the Gungnir would be a good fit as an end-game DAC (for someone who can't go above the $1K mark for any one component).
   
  Is there a possibility of Schiit coming out with something in between the Gungnir and the Yggdrasil?


----------



## grokit

Don't forget their have been three different versions of the V-link, and the original had the most room for improvement. The newest V192 has the XMOS chipset and is better than the Gungnir's original USB receiver. I have not heard Schiit's newer USB receiver however.


----------



## the8o88y

Hmm, so I take it not many have heard both the newest V-Link 192 AND the newer USB 2.0 receiver with Gungnir? I'm torn between both options, as Jason from Schiit told me the new USB beats most USB-SPDIF converters, but I'm not sure about V-Link 192 specifically..


----------



## huberd

That could not be further from the truth. The Gungnir is a fantastic sounding DAC. I know what I am talking about because I have sat with Stereo Reviewers form the Magazines and listened to many top notch stereo systems. It has the best build quality. If you open it up it is beautiful inside with quality components oversize power supplies discrete output stage fully balanced. Try to get that at the same price point as the Gungnir. My Gungnir stays on 24/7 for 6 months now without issue and with Florida thunderstorm. Usually for $600-$700 you will get opamps in the output stage...LOL


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





huberd said:


> My Gungnir stays on 24/7 for 6 months now without issue and with Florida thunderstorm.


----------



## Gneiss

I am considering moving from my current KingRex UD384 to the Gungnir, but have a few question as to my options. 
   
  I would be using the Gungnir with my desktop computer. I could get(or try to) a used Gungnir without USB and use the UD384 as a USB to SPDIF converter, although I am less happy with that because I was hoping to get some money from selling the UD384. My computer also does have an optical out so I could go straight from my computer to Gungnir via optical, I could also send in a non-USB Gungnir for an upgrade later I suppose but $150 plus shipping is not too cheap. Or I could go straight for a factory new USB Gungnir. I know very little about optical performance and wonder what others had to say about the various input options. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Sonic Defender

My understanding is that the second generation USB interface that the Gungnir has, or can be upgraded to have will have excellent performance. Why don't you e-mail Jason at Schiit and ask him? He is very responsive and in my experience answers questions without a bunch of sales hype. info@schiit.com. I love my Gungnir and currently it is only running through the original USB interface, soon I will be doing the upgrade to the second version which Jason feels confident that it is a significant audio improvement. Good luck and let us know what you decide.


----------



## zackzack

Quote: 





heywaj10 said:


> I was wondering the same thing: whether the USB upgrade to the Gungnir was better than using an external USB-S/PDIF converter.  If the new USB implementation is truly better (or at least equal to), would you guys consider the Gungnir an end-game DAC?  I have a Bifrost now (non-USB, non-Uber), and want to believe that due to Schiit's upgradeable design, the Gungnir would be a good fit as an end-game DAC (for someone who can't go above the $1K mark for any one component).
> 
> *Is there a possibility of Schiit coming out with something in between the Gungnir and the Yggdrasil?*


 
   
  There may be that possibility, yes. I keep hearing how there may be intermediate models in between Gungnir/Mjolnir & Yggdrasil/Ragnarok


----------



## Jason Stoddard

No, nothing between Gungnir and Yggy planned.


----------



## grokit

That's too bad. I would be quite interested in upgrading to a _Gungnir Pro_ with an AES/EBU input


----------



## joebobbilly

No, I'd rather see an uber upgrade for the Gungnir.


----------



## SoulFan84

I've recently acquired the Mjolnir/Gungnir combo and I am enjoying it immensely. It still hasn't fully burned in but is sounding better everyday. I also want to say to those who are experiencing the crackling, popping and brief drop outs in sound that this should disappear after a few dozen hours of play.


----------



## commtrd

My stack has always performed flawlessly. Still not a problem to date however I might send the G back to get the latest USB update. Has anyone here gotten the update done?


----------



## walteroly

I've had the Mjolnir/Gungnir combo for about 3 months now. I'm torn between the feeling that I made a mistake in buying it and the feeling like I got a great combo. They do sound great but when going from track to track the Gungnir has an annoying habit of emitting an anoying, high-pitched crackling sound whenever the source material changes bit rates or sampling rates. I don't feel the muting circuit is doing it's job well enough. Is this a problem for anyone else?


----------



## zackzack

Quote: 





walteroly said:


> I've had the Mjolnir/Gungnir combo for about 3 months now. I'm torn between the feeling that I made a mistake in buying it and the feeling like I got a great combo. They do sound great but when going from track to track the Gungnir has an annoying habit of emitting an anoying, high-pitched crackling sound whenever the source material changes bit rates or sampling rates. I don't feel the muting circuit is not doing it's job well enough. Is this a problem for anyone else?


 
   
  Not on my unit, no. Some nice clicking noise, which I love, when my Mac Mini is restarting. But no "annoying high pitched noise", no.


----------



## commtrd

No noises at all out of my stack except every so often I will hear the very faint click of a relay. Almost never though.


----------



## Gerzom

No strange noises here either, just some clicks when a cd starts or stops, that's all


----------



## sceleratus

I am just loving this DAC.
  It slays my recently departed Bifrost/ûber.
   
  Beautiful


----------



## Sonic Defender

Just to add weight to the sample size, no clicks or pops from my Gungnir either.


----------



## rwelles

Quote: 





walteroly said:


> I've had the Mjolnir/Gungnir combo for about 3 months now. I'm torn between the feeling that I made a mistake in buying it and the feeling like I got a great combo. They do sound great but when going from track to track the Gungnir has an annoying habit of emitting an anoying, high-pitched crackling sound whenever the source material changes bit rates or sampling rates. I don't feel the muting circuit is doing it's job well enough. Is this a problem for anyone else?


 
  If you haven't done so all ready, please contact Schiit! I had a problem with  my Gungnir that they went to great lengths to correct. Their customer service is second to none!!!


----------



## G1Snd

Here is something fun that I don't think anyone has posted about (I searched this thread only).
   
  I read a review online that mentioned they used a native C-Media ASIO driver when using the Gungnir. This made me curious because it seemed this C-Media ASIO was not installed with the Windows driver package. The only way I knew of using ASIO was with ASIO4All (or ASIO2ks).
   
  Here is how to use the C-Media ASIO. Note: Try this at your own risk, I doubt this driver is officially supported.
   
    1. If you didn't keep the Shiit Audio driver package ZIP then download it from their website.
   
    2. Unzip the package, open the folder and you'll find 4 folders corresponding to different Windows versions. Open the folder for your version of Windows. Inside that folder should be a folder named SoftwareDriver, open that folder to find a folder named DLL.
   
    3. The CMUACWOASIO.DLL and CMUACWOASIO64.DLL files inside the DLL folder are what you want. Copy those two files and paste them into your Windows folder (probably C:\Windows\).
   
    4. Open a Command Prompt (click Start button, click Run, type cmd.exe OR find it in All Programs - Accessories).
   
    5. At the Command Prompt type:   regsvr32 "C:\Windows\CMUACWOASIO.DLL"
        then press enter and type:  regsvr32 "C:\Windows\CMUACWOASIO64.DLL"
        and press enter again. If you pasted the two .DLL files somewhere else you'll have to change the C:\Windows path accordingly.
   
  Now if you open foobar, xmplay, ulilith or whatever your using you should find another available output probably called ASIO for C-Media USB. If you don't see the output listed, restart your computer. The control panel only has two options: bit-depth and latency (4 ms works for me).
   
  If the step-by-step instructions left you a little confused the basic process to use the C-Media ASIO driver is: Copy the CMUACWOASIO.DLL and CMUACWOASIO64.DLL files from the driver package to your system folder and register those two .DLL's from a command prompt.
   
  If you want to uninstall the C-Media ASIO driver then enter these two commands from a command prompt: 
           regsvr32 /u "C:\Windows\CMUACWOASIO.DLL"
           regsvr32 /u "C:\Windows\CMUACWOASIO64.DLL"
       Then delete the two .DLL files.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Is there some advantage to doing this, or just for the sake of trying something different?


----------



## bareian

I agree, burn-in is legit. I wasn't satisfied with the sound of my bifrost for the first few days after receiving it, but something happened that changed my mind. The only thing I can attribute the change to is time used. I was ready to return it but the sound just gets more real with time. My only problem now is should I return it and get the Gungnir? Somebody help.


----------



## sceleratus

bareian said:


> I agree, burn-in is legit. I wasn't satisfied with the sound of my bifrost for the first few days after receiving it, but something happened that changed my mind. The only thing I can attribute the change to is time used. I was ready to return it but the sound just gets more real with time. My only problem now is should I return it and get the Gungnir? Somebody help.




I had a Bifrost Über for some time. It was great. That said, I don't regret replacing it with a Gungnir at all. It's that good.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ You were great? Cool! How was the bifrost uber?


----------



## sceleratus

Thanks for proofing my manuscriff.
  Ûber good


----------



## G1Snd

sonic defender said:


> Is there some advantage to doing this, or just for the sake of trying something different?



 
 I was having trouble with Foobar and ASIO. All recent versions of Foobar have been giving me errors when using ASIO4ALL. A box pops up during playback that says something about a timeout. It got very annoying as the music would suddenly stop every few minutes and I'd have to close the box and whatever song was playing would restart at the beginning.
  When I saw mention of the C-Media chip having it's own ASIO driver I thought I would see if it would remedy the problem. It helped, but didn't fix it completely; so I went back to XMPlay, which I'd used years ago. I have absolutely no problems with XMPlay. Another player I like that I recently discovered and hasn't given me any problems yet is uLilith.
  Anyway, back to ASIO, I've continued using the C-Media ASIO because I like that it offers me the exact settings the chip was designed for (latency specifically). I figure that any driver that is made for a specific product would be the better option than something that is a general or fits all driver.


----------



## Argo Duck

My pleasure  Actually, people like me are a PITA! Years of marking students' essays, studies and exam papers I'm afraid.

But seriously, what were the key differences going from UB to Gungnir? Was the comparison single-ended, or were the benefits with Gungnir's balanced mode?

Cheers



sceleratus said:


> Thanks for proofing my manuscriff.
> Ûber good


----------



## sceleratus

Jason let me try one with my amp at the LA meet.
  That was single ended.  I felt there was more music with more life that I ordered one the next day.
   
  Since I have converted my amp to XLR balanced.  I am extremely pleased.


----------



## sceleratus

Add....
   
  Yes, having a balanced interface was a big factor in making the jump, as I had planned to add one to my amp.
  However,  I auditioned it with a single ended interface and I was very impressed.


----------



## sceleratus




----------



## Arven

Is the new USB board for the gungnir better than the toslink optical? 
I'm deciding if it's worth it to pay the extra 100 for USB since I can always use the optical out on my MacBook and on my AK100


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





arven said:


> Is the new USB board for the gungnir better than the toslink optical?
> I'm deciding if it's worth it to pay the extra 100 for USB since I can always use the optical out on my MacBook and on my AK100


 
  For me.
  Tough to say.
  I was operating my Bifrost toslink from my Mac for about a year.
  I ordered the USB for the LA meet so others could plug in their source.  Then a week later I ordered my Gungnir and installed  the USB 2.
   
  I've been on USB ever since.
  If you wish I can easily switch to Toslink for a bit to provide a comparison from a Neanderthal.
  I suspect I won't be able to tell.
   
  The Gungnir will support 192kHz on Toslink, but that doesn't matter because the Mac will only go to 96kHz optical.
  Again, I doubt you'll hear a difference, but it's a heck-of-a interface.
   
  Keep this in mind.  Adding a USB2 to the Gungnir is twice as difficult as a Bifrost Uber upgrade.  The board is larger and harder to handle.
  The LED's were a challenge to put back in the Bifrost.   Double that for the Gungnir.
   
  If you decide on the USB2 get it from the factory.


----------



## G1Snd

arven said:


> Is the new USB board for the gungnir better than the toslink optical?
> I'm deciding if it's worth it to pay the extra 100 for USB since I can always use the optical out on my MacBook and on my AK100



 
 Hmm, I think I hear a difference, but I couldn't tell you exactly what it is (Note: My Gungnir has the updated USB board). What I can tell you is that when I want to listen to 24 bit files stored on my computer; I use the USB connection. When I want to listen to an album that I have on CD and stored on the computer at the same (CD quality) resolution; I listen to it with a CD-player on the optical connection. Even though the USB playback would be more convenient, I still go find the CD and load it in the player; so the optical interface must sound better to me or I wouldn't bother using it.
  As sceleratus said, it is better to just get USB installed from the factory if your going to get it. I would say that for now you would be fine without USB and just use the optical connection. Remember this though: If you want or need a USB connection in the future it may cost more than $100 to add it either as an external USB to SPDIF converter or Schiit add-in board.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





g1snd said:


> Hmm, I think I hear a difference, but I couldn't tell you exactly what it is (Note: My Gungnir has the updated USB board). What I can tell you is that when I want to listen to 24 bit files stored on my computer; I use the USB connection. When I want to listen to an album that I have on CD and stored on the computer at the same (CD quality) resolution; I listen to it with a CD-player on the optical connection. Even though the USB playback would be more convenient, I still go find the CD and load it in the player; so the optical interface must sound better to me or I wouldn't bother using it.
> &nbsp  As sceleratus said, it is better to just get USB installed from the factory if your going to get it. I would say that for now you would be fine without USB and just use the optical connection. Remember this though: If you want or need a USB connection in the future it may cost more than $100 to add it either as an external USB to SPDIF converter or Schiit add-in board.


 
  To add it later it's $100 to do it yourself and $150 plus shipping to send it in and have Schiit do it.  If you are handy it's certainly doable, but you have to be very methodical and watch the bank of LED's.  They are exposed and easy to forget and smash.  You'll need very long needle nose pliers to seat them back in the holes in the case.   The Bifrost was pretty easy because it is half the size.  THe Gungnir board is another thing.  I wasn't ready for that.


----------



## Erukian

We're just talking about an interface here right? I would think one of the only reasons you'd buy the USB module is if you have no toslink/coax/bnc spdif source.
   
  I'm sure the Gungnir doesn't care as much as some people probably do over the kind of cable and interface. It's getting 1's and 0's and as long as it's not inherently too jittery everything should be the same. 
   
  My two cents, buy it if you need the interface, or save your money and use the (very solid) spdif interfaces.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





erukian said:


> We're just talking about an interface here right? I would think the only reasons you'd buy the USB module is if you have no toslink/coax/bnc spdif source.
> 
> I'm sure the Gungnir doesn't care as much as some people probably do over what kind of cable and interface it's getting it's 1's and 0's from as long as it's not inherently too jittery.
> 
> My two cents, buy it if you need the interface, or save your money and use the (very solid) spdif interfaces.


 
  +1


----------



## x838nwy

Came across the iUSB by iFI. Does anyone know if this will affect improvement on the Gungnir? Has anyone tried it?
   
  Thanks
   
  C


----------



## sceleratus

I looked up iFi products.  Although interesting, IMO, the biggest feature of the Gungnir is the Adapti Clock, or the ability to fix marginal inbound signals.  I love gadgets, but IMO, again, I think the return would be marginal with a Gungnir and you have an extra box to put someplace and an extra cable.  
   
  I'm not the sharpest tack in the box, but I didn't get the Gemini Cable.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





g1snd said:


> Hmm, I think I hear a difference, but I couldn't tell you exactly what it is (Note: My Gungnir has the updated USB board). What I can tell you is that when I want to listen to 24 bit files stored on my computer; I use the USB connection. When I want to listen to an album that I have on CD and stored on the computer at the same (CD quality) resolution; I listen to it with a CD-player on the optical connection. Even though the USB playback would be more convenient, I still go find the CD and load it in the player; so the optical interface must sound better to me or I wouldn't bother using it.


 
   
  The difference that you are hearing may not be from the interface, but the transport. Have you tried the CD player with a coaxial connection to the Gungnir?


----------



## x838nwy

sceleratus said:


> I looked up iFi products.  Although interesting, IMO, the biggest feature of the Gungnir is the Adapti Clock, or the ability to fix marginal inbound signals.  I love gadgets, but IMO, again, I think the return would be marginal with a Gungnir and you have an extra box to put someplace and an extra cable.
> 
> I'm not the sharpest tack in the box, but I didn't get the Gemini Cable.




The iUSB i think stabilizes the 5V part of things and offers also another port with just the 5V DC. One cable in the Gemini cable pair takes only the data from the former (the data + 5V port) while the other takes only the 5V and ground from the latter (5V only port) . The cable then combines these at the USB B plug at the DAC.

I wonder if this might improve the Gungnir... Does it use the 5/0V from the conputer at all? I doubt it would do much if the dac doesn't need 5V from the pc...?


----------



## grokit

That's a great path to go down, I think high-end usb _cables_ should all isolate the power if they cost real $ but what do I know.


----------



## G1Snd

grokit said:


> The difference that you are hearing may not be from the interface, but the transport. Have you tried the CD player with a coaxial connection to the Gungnir?



 
 At first I thought you were calling the CD player a transport; but I guess you mean the cable as the transport of data. I have only briefly tried it just to check functionality. I don't have a coaxial cable that's as good as my optical; so if you believe in cable differences then my significantly better optical cable will give it an advantage anyway. My USB cable is "audiophile grade", but might not be as good as the optical cable either. All I know is that, with this equipment, my ears/brain prefer the CD played over optical instead of the ripped CD played over USB.


----------



## TK277

Bought the Gungnir w/ USB board the other day! Excited for it to get here. I'm guessing it doesn't come with a USB cable (I haven't read anything about including one). I'm not cable crazy or interested in super expensive cables at the moment. I'm just looking for a recommendation for a good shielded cable. "Audiophile grade" would be interesting to me, but one under or around $30 is preferable.
   
  Thanks all!


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





tk277 said:


> Bought the Gungnir w/ USB board the other day! Excited for it to get here. I'm guessing it doesn't come with a USB cable (I haven't read anything about including one). I'm not cable crazy or interested in super expensive cables at the moment. I'm just looking for a recommendation for a good shielded cable. "Audiophile grade" would be interesting to me, but one under or around $30 is preferable.
> 
> Thanks all!


 
   
  I recommend you read this.


----------



## G1Snd

tk277 said:


> Bought the Gungnir w/ USB board the other day! Excited for it to get here. I'm guessing it doesn't come with a USB cable (I haven't read anything about including one). I'm not cable crazy or interested in super expensive cables at the moment. I'm just looking for a recommendation for a good shielded cable. "Audiophile grade" would be interesting to me, but one under or around $30 is preferable.
> 
> Thanks all!



 
 Nope, no USB, just a power cord included. The "cheaper" USB cable I have is 1 meter of Wireworld Starlight 7; but I think it was $100. You could perhaps try a Wireworld Ultraviolet 7, but 1 meter will still be about $50 (and yes, 1 meter can be a bit short for some needs). I hear the Belkin Gold USB gets good reviews and I think it's under $30. The Wireworld USB cables have an isolated power wire and I prefer the sound quality of my Starlight 7 rather than an old generic USB I tried for whatever that's worth.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





erukian said:


> I recommend you read this.


 
  Very interesting.  Thanks for the link.
  I don't want to join a cable unicorn hunt but a ferrite wrap anomaly makes some sense to me.
  Wouldn't any ferrite wrap be in an external "bulge" near a connector?  That the only implementation I've ever seen.
   
  With the recent addition of a Gungnir I was giving my heavy gray "Smelkin" cable the evil eye.
  Like TK227, I wanted to get a recommendation for under .... max $50.


----------



## TK277

Thank you Erukian and G1Snd for your posts! I've avoided cable discussions for awhile due to my inexperience. Part of me wants to go for the expensive cables so that I don't miss the full potential of my set-up. And of course, all of me wants the most economical quality solution. I need a cable here the same day as the DAC, so I read your material and went with an Amazon basics USB cable (shielded, no ferrites, gold-plated) for a negligible $7.00. My existing RCA cables are about the same grade (gold plated with good thickness, but nothing labeled with audiophile terms). I'll see if I have any problems when everything is set up. That starlight cable looks gorgeous. I'll keep reading more, too, of course... but for now I thank you all for the help!
   
  I figure the cable debate will get more and more relevant as I move up in the audio world. The Gungnir will be the most sophisticated piece in my chain when it arrives. Right now I use bitperfect with iTunes (320 mp3s to ALAC CD rips, 16 bit / 44.1kHz) > Dragonfly DAC > Pico Slim > W4R / ATH-CK100PRO


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





g1snd said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Sorry if I was unclear, you were right the first time. I was speaking of the differences between the actual transport mechanisms not the cables.


----------



## judmarc

AQ Forest is a nice USB cable which, depending on length, is around that $30 price range.


----------



## ru4music

Quote: 





judmarc said:


> AQ Forest is a nice USB cable which, depending on length, is around that $30 price range.


 

 Also look into the (Pangea Audio - USB cable - PCOCC & 4% silver), it's also around $30 for 1 meter length.  I use the pure silver version with my Matrix X-sabre DAC.


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





ru4music said:


> Also look into the (Pangea Audio - USB cable - PCOCC & 4% silver), it's also around $30 for 1 meter length.  I use the pure silver version with my Matrix X-sabre DAC.


 
  I could not find a USB cable on the Pangea site.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





sceleratus said:


> I could not find a USB cable on the Pangea site.


 
  They're everywhere else. Link


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> They're everywhere else. Link


 
  thanks


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> They're everywhere else. Link


 
  Ordered.


----------



## TK277

My DAC arrived right before I left for work! Killer having to wait, but I got home and unboxed it as soon as I could. So gorgeous in appearance and construction. I don't want to comment on the sound until I get more hours on it (it's got about 6 right now). Nope, I should definitely wait to share how it sounds as good as it looks and how I am already enjoying my music experience more... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The $7.00 amazon USB cable is pretty nice. If I'm going to pick a side, I'm leaning toward the argument that digital cables don't affect the sound because it's transferring data, not sound. I did, however, place an order for some Blue Jeans Cable RCA to replace my run-of-the-mill RCA cables, because that's a different story...right? Forgive me if I'm wrong!
   
  Cheers, guys.


----------



## earwaxxer

Quote: 





judmarc said:


> AQ Forest is a nice USB cable which, depending on length, is around that $30 price range.


 
  I bought a 5 meter Forest from The Cable Company. They didnt have it in stock so they sent me a Carbon for the same price! I'm a happy camper!


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





earwaxxer said:


> I bought a 5 meter Forest from The Cable Company. They didnt have it in stock so they sent me a Carbon for the same price! I'm a happy camper!


 
  i could only afford algea


----------



## Stealer

Quote: 





g1snd said:


> Here is something fun that I don't think anyone has posted about (I searched this thread only).
> 
> I read a review online that mentioned they used a native C-Media ASIO driver when using the Gungnir. This made me curious because it seemed this C-Media ASIO was not installed with the Windows driver package. The only way I knew of using ASIO was with ASIO4All (or ASIO2ks).
> 
> ...


 
  can you direct me to the page on the website. I unable to find it the download page..


----------



## paradoxper

http://schiit.com/drivers/
   
  If you wanted the ASIO drivers a simple Google search does the trick.


----------



## Stealer

thanks Paradoxper...


----------



## halfrican

schitt.com has some "new" USB drivers listed, link is broken at this time, but perhaps we'll be seeing support for WASAPI "event mode"?


----------



## Stealer

yes.
   
  before that was U6631_U6631A-1.01 and now is U6631_U6631A-1.03.
   
  Any difference???
   
  rgds


----------



## x838nwy

After some light browsing it appears that the dac chips in the gungnir (ak4399) can actually do dsd.

Unfortunately the usb chip CM6631A cannot.

The interesting part is the CM663*2*A is dsd capable. And while I haven't studied them much, they look like pretty direct replacements.

Interesting...

P.s. sorry if this has been previously posted.

P.p.s. I'm not really interested in dsd. But some of you guys seems to be.


----------



## halfrican

stealer said:


> yes.
> 
> before that was U6631_U6631A-1.01 and now is U6631_U6631A-1.03.
> 
> ...




I can confirm that the new driver supports WASAPI event mode.


----------



## G1Snd

paradoxper said:


> http://schiit.com/drivers/
> 
> If you wanted the ASIO drivers a simple Google search does the trick.



 
 An update for everyone: Driver downloads are now under the download tab on each product's page on the Schiit website. 

 If you try the installation of the C-Media ASIO drivers that I posted about http://www.head-fi.org/t/603219/schiit-gungnir-dac/1125#post_9668371 it looks like the path to the .dll files is the same in the new Schiit_USB_1_03 driver pack. I'll try them tonight to find out if they still work fine.
  


x838nwy said:


> After some light browsing it appears that the dac chips in the gungnir (ak4399) can actually do dsd.
> 
> Unfortunately the usb chip CM6631A cannot.
> 
> ...



 
 If you look at http://schiit.com/products/bifrost and click on the FAQ tab one of the question/answers is "How about DSD? We will have DSD solutions for all of our DACs in the near future."   That's interesting info on the chips. I guess adding DSD over USB will need an upgrade board rather than just a driver; but soon we might have DSD functionality for coaxial.


----------



## BournePerfect

Got one of these en route to try out. I'm thinking of getting the Gen 2 USB upgrade but Jason isn't sure if it's compatible with my SBT/EDO. Anyone used this combo?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## sceleratus

I have something weird going on with my MacBook Pro Retina and Gunginr.
  The Gungnir not work when plug into the USB on the right side of the MBP.  Every other USB device works just fine there.  
   
  The Gungnir will work on the left side port or any port on my Apple Display.
   
  Very odd.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Quote: 





halfrican said:


> I can confirm that the new driver supports WASAPI event mode.


 
   
  Not sure if it matters, but for the next few months I am still going to have the first USB board in my Gungnir so I hope this new driver works with the older board. Does anyone know if this is actually the case? I would love to use WASAPI event as currently to eliminate any plaback stutters I have to disable my network connection (I'm using ASIO under Win 7 as WASAPI wasn't surported before). I use JRiver 18 as my media player, and I would love to know if it is Windows or JRiver that causes the playback stutters I get when connected to the Internet. Not really a huge deal as I like to keep the machine as just a music server, but it would be nice to have the choice.


----------



## x838nwy

sceleratus said:


> I have something weird going on with my MacBook Pro Retina and Gunginr.
> The Gungnir not work when plug into the USB on the right side of the MBP.  Every other USB device works just fine there.
> 
> The Gungnir will work on the left side port or any port on my Apple Display.
> ...




Have you looked at what's on the same bus as your rh port? Could be something like an isight camera or something...?


----------



## Stealer

Quote: 





x838nwy said:


> After some light browsing it appears that the dac chips in the gungnir (ak4399) can actually do dsd.
> 
> Unfortunately the usb chip CM6631A cannot.
> 
> ...


 
  So is the new usb gen2 upgrade DSD compatible?
  If I'm not wrong, you are saying the older usb pcb is not DSD compatible..


----------



## Stealer

Quote: 





halfrican said:


> I can confirm that the new driver supports WASAPI event mode.


 
  Hmm, not sure I get what you mean...
   Can only remember that I used to run wasapi event mode and after the JRMC upgrade in ver 18.x.xx , something happened and wasapi event style no longer can be used with schiit & JRMC.
  So I had switch to ASIO... till now with JRMC19. I am running in ASIO with my Teac UD501..
   
  PS : still do  not understand what the deal about this "wasapi event style", can still run in ASIO..
  maybe can clarify this...


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





stealer said:


> So is the new usb gen2 upgrade DSD compatible?
> If I'm not wrong, you are saying the older usb pcb is not DSD compatible..


 
   
  What I _think_ is the case is that the DAC _chip_ in the Gungnir is actually DSD capable but the USB input _controller chip_ is not. But the same manufacturer who makes the USB controller chip also makes one that _is_ DSD capable and it's at least the same physical dimensions as the one on the current board.
   
  Please note that my understanding of all this is rather limited and I may be quite, quite wrong.


----------



## G1Snd

stealer said:


> Hmm, not sure I get what you mean...
> Can only remember that I used to run wasapi event mode and after the JRMC upgrade in ver 18.x.xx , something happened and wasapi event style no longer can be used with schiit & JRMC.
> So I had switch to ASIO... till now with JRMC19. I am running in ASIO with my Teac UD501..
> 
> ...



 
 The Schiit drivers wouldn't work with waspi event style, only the push style; but now they work with both styles. Media players like Foobar let you choose waspi event or push style. Many people prefer the event style. For the reasons behind it just google waspi event vs push. Considering which output type to use, ASIO or Waspi, just use whichever one works the best for you.


----------



## BournePerfect

*Gagnir**
   
  *trademarked by BournePerfect
   
_Any unauthorized use is prohibited unless by authorized, expressed written consent of BournePerfect._
   
  That's all I'll say about that. Don't worry Jason-I'm still all aboard for the Yggy.
   
  Un-sub'd.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23




----------



## TK277

Did I miss something?


----------



## sceleratus




----------



## h.rav

Quote: 





heywaj10 said:


> x2...any impressions from W4S dac owners?


 
  I like the W4S better, but the differences are marginal.
   
  Maybe when Schiit comes out with a new module, it will equal/trounce the W4S DAC.
   
  I really like the Schiit, If I were to start over, I would choose the Gungnir, not to mention the upgradability of the Gungnir, looks much more easier to change boards and cost much less than the W4S.


----------



## huberd

Does anyone know if Schiit will be offering a different USB module other than the C-Media? I seem to be having a lot of trouble with my setup. Have a Gungnir and I am using JRiver with the latest USB drivers in ASIO mode. I am not able to play songs that are sampled at 176000 khz and sometimes 24 bit recordings get down sampled stating there is not enough bits. I am about ready to sell this thing. I have tried using the ASIO4ALL driver with it and it gets choppy. If I down grade the drive to the old version it seems to work better but the sound is not as good. I don't know what to do. If anyone would like to buy it please let me know I will give it to you for $600. Maybe you can make it work properly.


----------



## DarKen23

huberd said:


> Does anyone know if Schiit will be offering a different USB module other than the C-Media? I seem to be having a lot of trouble with my setup. Have a Gungnir and I am using JRiver with the latest USB drivers in ASIO mode. I am not able to play songs that are sampled at 176000 khz and sometimes 24 bit recordings get down sampled stating there is not enough bits. I am about ready to sell this thing. I have tried using the ASIO4ALL driver with it and it gets choppy. If I down grade the drive to the old version it seems to work better but the sound is not as good. I don't know what to do. If anyone would like to buy it please let me know I will give it to you for $600. Maybe you can make it work properly.



Lol, not surprised.. Anyways, consider a external converter, youll get much much better results both in sonics and glitchy issues


----------



## huberd

Thanks that gave me and idea maybe I will change my motherboard to one that has a coax out. I believe I tried this in the past and it even sounded better. Or I can get on external converter to convert it from USB to Coax.


----------



## huberd

I have having trouble playing some songs that are sampled at 178000 khz the songs jump and skip. When I look at JRiver the bandwidth of the song is 8200+ kbs which is above the S/PDIF specifications. I think the limitations are around 6000 kbs. When I use my Gungnir with a USB cable I have the same issue. I am wondering if Schiit is converting USB to S/PDIF and that is what is causing the issue? USB 2.0 should have a lot more available bandwidth and should not have a problem with a song with that much bandwidth. I wonder if any engineers can maybe shed some light on the subject?


----------



## DarKen23

huberd said:


> Thanks that gave me and idea maybe I will change my motherboard to one that has a coax out. I believe I tried this in the past and it even sounded better. Or I can get on external converter to convert it from USB to Coax.



Apparently you thought I was joking. Hate to break the bad news, but ya shouldnt have went with the usb implementation. 100.00 for a USB to spdif converter, you should expect those problems. Just sayin..


----------



## DarKen23

huberd said:


> I have having trouble playing some songs that are sampled at 178000 khz the songs jump and skip. When I look at JRiver the bandwidth of the song is 8200+ kbs which is above the S/PDIF specifications. I think the limitations are around 6000 kbs. When I use my Gungnir with a USB cable I have the same issue. I am wondering if Schiit is converting USB to S/PDIF and that is what is causing the issue? USB 2.0 should have a lot more available bandwidth and should not have a problem with a song with that much bandwidth. I wonder if any engineers can maybe shed some light on the subject?



Its not rocket science bud.


----------



## DarKen23

So are you using only a USB cable from your pc straight to the gagnir, oops I meant gungnir.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> So are you using only a USB cable from your pc straight to the gagnir, oops I meant gungnir.


 
   
   
  *tsk tsk*
   
  Where are my royalties? Reported. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  -Daniel


----------



## DarKen23

bourneperfect said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > So are you using only a USB cable from your pc straight to the gagnir, oops I meant gungnir.
> ...



LOL, still up Dan?


----------



## huberd

I found out that it must be the driver. I switched to Linux and everything works fine. I just don't like using Linux because the lack of a good music player. But this is a solution for now.


----------



## x838nwy

huberd said:


> I found out that it must be the driver. I switched to Linux and everything works fine. I just don't like using Linux because the lack of a good music player. But this is a solution for now.




I was going to suggest you try another device/os. Seems you did that already.


----------



## Stealer

Quote: 





huberd said:


> Does anyone know if Schiit will be offering a different USB module other than the C-Media? I seem to be having a lot of trouble with my setup. Have a Gungnir and I am using JRiver with the latest USB drivers in ASIO mode. I am not able to play songs that are sampled at 176000 khz and sometimes 24 bit recordings get down sampled stating there is not enough bits. I am about ready to sell this thing. I have tried using the ASIO4ALL driver with it and it gets choppy. If I down grade the drive to the old version it seems to work better but the sound is not as good. I don't know what to do. If anyone would like to buy it please let me know I will give it to you for $600. Maybe you can make it work properly.


 
  I'm also using JRiver, now in 19.0.32 version with the latest -1.03 schit usb driver.
  No problem playing 24bit 192kHz... using wasapi...
   
  no sure any problem with 176kHz... cause I don't have 176kHz file
   
  why not try wasapi..


----------



## DarKen23

huberd said:


> I found out that it must be the driver. I switched to Linux and everything works fine. I just don't like using Linux because the lack of a good music player. But this is a solution for now.


Investigate "jitter"


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Lol, not surprised.. Anyways, consider a external converter, youll get much much better results both in sonics and glitchy issues


 
   
  Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Apparently you thought I was joking. Hate to break the bad news, but ya shouldnt have went with the usb implementation. 100.00 for a USB to spdif converter, you should expect those problems. Just sayin..


 
   
  Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Its not rocket science bud.


 
   
  Quote: 





darken23 said:


> So are you using only a USB cable from your pc straight to the gagnir, oops I meant gungnir.


 
   
  Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Investigate "jitter"


 
   
  Dude, seriously, what is it you are trying to imply with your replies here? It seems to me that you're saying that because the USB upgrade board is $100 that it shouldn't work or something? I know there are converters out there that are more expensive than the gungnir itself, but just because it's cheaper does not imply that it won't work, surely? Mine has been working since I got it, if that's anything to go by (and I have a number of hi-res files here, not many, but they cover a whole range of sample rates and bit depths ). Perhaps Schiit should be selling the board for $500 so that it will stand a better chance of working.
   
  To the OP, as some may have said, it'd be best to contact Schiit or try Jason. His replies are short but normally to the point. I get the impression that they know what they're talking about when it comes to their USB board so it'd be really weird if they dropped the ball on this one - one of the things the new board is supposed to be able to do over the previous version is 24/176.4


----------



## DarKen23

x838nwy said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, not surprised.. Anyways, consider a external converter, youll get much much better results both in sonics and glitchy issues
> ...



All I'm saying is that there are other options and that I personally believe that going with an external unit is a better choice, no need to get worked up about it.
If yours works fine, great. If not, there are other options.


----------



## x838nwy

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> All I'm saying is that there are other options and that I personally believe that going with an external unit is a better choice, no need to get worked up about it.
> If yours works fine, great. If not, there are other options.


 
   Didn't appear to me that's "all you're saying" and as for "getting worked up" I wan't the one writing 5 posts saying basically the same thing.
   
  Anyhow, what converter are you using? And I'm kindda suspecting that Schiit's one-box "solution" (to a problem that I don't think exist) might well be an external converter...


----------



## DarKen23

x838nwy said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > All I'm saying is that there are other options and that I personally believe that going with an external unit is a better choice, no need to get worked up about it.
> ...


Right, if yours does not have any problems, I congratulate you. The other person was experience problems and I suggested that an external converter be used, given that he was experiencing similar problems to "cheaper" converters I thought it would be a good opportunity to try other options like audiophilleo, ilink, and many others.


----------



## sceleratus

Hi Dan:
   
  Here's x838nwy's question:
  Quote: 





x838nwy said:


> Didn't appear to me that's "all you're saying" and as for "getting worked up" I wan't the one writing 5 posts saying basically the same thing.
> 
> *Anyhow, what converter are you using?* And I'm kindda suspecting that Schiit's one-box "solution" (to a problem that I don't think exist) might well be an external converter...


 
  Here's your answer:
  Quote: 





darken23 said:


> Right, if yours does not have any problems, I congratulate you. The *other person* was experience problems and* I suggested* that an external converter be used, given that he was *experiencing similar problems to "cheaper" converters* I thought it would be a good opportunity to try other options like audiophilleo, ilink, and many others.


 
*Anyhow, what converter are you using?*


----------



## DarKen23

sceleratus said:


> Hi Dan:
> 
> Here's x838nwy's question:
> 
> ...



I am using a particular unit where the usb audio is converted to a spdif


----------



## totacelasi

Some days ago I started to use the my Gungnir and I noticed something weird. The output from single ended pairs are totally different. On one output pair the sound is with much bass and height, like having a loudness function. It should be noted that I tested the dac in two different systems and the result is the same : the sound is different on the two output (SE) pairs. Did somebody notice the same difference ?


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





darken23 said:


> I am using a particular unit where the usb audio is converted to a spdif


 
   
   
*. . . *?


----------



## Sonic Defender

g1snd said:


> The Schiit drivers wouldn't work with waspi event style, only the push style; but now they work with both styles. Media players like Foobar let you choose waspi event or push style. Many people prefer the event style. For the reasons behind it just google waspi event vs push. Considering which output type to use, ASIO or Waspi, just use whichever one works the best for you.


 
  
 WASPI Event Style works perfectly now with the new drivers (and I Have the first gen USB board). I used ASIO without issues for the most part, but when the Internet wasn't disabled I would have some playback stutter issues with JRMC. Not now with WASPI.


----------



## DarKen23

sonic defender said:


> g1snd said:
> 
> 
> > The Schiit drivers wouldn't work with waspi event style, only the push style; but now they work with both styles. Media players like Foobar let you choose waspi event or push style. Many people prefer the event style. For the reasons behind it just google waspi event vs push. Considering which output type to use, ASIO or Waspi, just use whichever one works the best for you.
> ...



I believe ASIO provides the best sound, could be wrong.


----------



## x838nwy

darken23 said:


> I believe ASIO provides the best sound, could be wrong.


 
  
 Okay - sinde comments aside, it seems you're using an iLink+iUSB and you've owned an audiophilleo in the past. I have a couple of questions for you and would very much appreciate your thoughts:
  
 1.) How much of an improvement did the iUSB add (to the Gungnir) on its own? (I had a chance to try this, but the plan fell through).
 2.) How would you rate (iUSB+iLink) vs (AP1/2 + PP)?
  
 I've been itching to try the iUSB for a while (as above) but the local dealer does not have an iLink to loan. Your thoughts would be much appreciated.


----------



## DarKen23

x838nwy said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > I believe ASIO provides the best sound, could be wrong.
> ...


I'd be happy to give you my thoughts. I've never owned a gungnir, I did own a Yulong D18 Dac, which actually forced me to go down the converter route since a usb input was non existent nor was it an option. Thinking back now, I actually feel like an idiot! See, I bought that d18 without thinking about how I'd get music from my pc to the dac, thank god a friend on head fi asked me "hey which converter are you going with", otherwise I would have been with the D18 scratching my head.

Anyways, the ap1 or ap2 is a great unit, very well regarded. I've tried a handful of different converters and found the ifi audio ilink>iusb going to my D18 using a special oyaide DR-510 cable to be the best. Ap1/2 with its psu or even the iusb yields a significant upgrade in sq. The ap1/2 renders vocals unbelievably well. The reason I settled with ifi is the way it disappears in the chain, the balance is perfect to my liking, nothing stood out and grabbed my attention. Converters all have a different sound, some love the ap1/2--and they should, it really is a great unit but the ifi combo was much more pleasing to me. Keep in mind though, I would never use a converter without a power supply, the difference is night/day. 

If you've been on the fence with a converter, I'd say--go for it, it could possibly turn your gungnir into a killer sounding dac. As for the USB imp in the gungnir vs something like ap+psu, ilink combo, and others--you'll see a significant gain. You'll get a much smoother overall presentation especially with the ifi setup I've got (so smooth and grain free) visceral bass, larger sound stage list goes on..


----------



## DarKen23

Oh and I've recently made a purchase with a flagship dac from Yulong, DA8.

A lot people are saying the USB is so good that I might as well just sell my ilink. The DA8 also has its own built-in power supply juicing the 5v. I am anxiously waiting for the DA8 to arrive to compare.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all,
  
 To clear a few things up:
  
 1. The new USB Gen 2 input is really, really good. I'll put it up against any converter under $500, and many over that price. Why? Because even with the best USB-SPDIF converter, you're still dependent on how good the DAC is at SPDIF. Now, Gungnir is VERY, VERY good at SPDIF due to the unique Adapticlock system--it is the only DAC out there that assesses the input center frequency and jitter in order to assign it to the best clock regeneration system. But the USB Gen 2 measures even better. Now, measurements are not everything, but the fact remains: USB can outperform SPDIF, at least in measured performance.
  
 2. The Gungnir's USB input doesn't need any conditioning, auxiliary power, cables that cost more than Gungnir itself, plutonium rectifiers, magic faerie dust, rituals involving swinging a dead chicken by the light of the full moon, or any other quantum arcana in order to achieve top performance. Get a good USB 2.0 cable. Connect it. Done.
  
 Hope this brightens everyone's day!
  
 All the best,
 Jason


----------



## Stealer

jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> 
> To clear a few things up:
> 
> ...


 
 Jason,
  
 are you able to tell us from which serial no onward  is this new USB2 install & what the different between them.
  
*"The Gen 2 USB board ships standard with every new Bifrost USB or Gungnir USB. ...*."
  
 Just wondering is mine come with the new USB2...
  
 rgds


----------



## Sonic Defender

Couldn't agree more with Jason. Despite still running with a 1st gen USB in my Gungnir, I found that using a USB cable from an external Yamaha CD writer (yes I still own such a thing) produces such an amazing result that I have no doubt that my system sounds even better than it did with the well done Sabre 32 DAC in my Audiolab 8200CD, which was no slouch at all.


----------



## x838nwy

jason stoddard said:


> rituals involving swinging a dead chicken by the light of the full moon


 
  
 I believe the chicken must be plucked for best results.


----------



## Arven

Anybody got a Loki and tried it with a Gungnir yet?


----------



## h.rav

arven said:


> Anybody got a Loki and tried it with a Gungnir yet?




Loki is a standalone DAC, pairing it with any DAC won't make any difference.


----------



## frankty

I just used a different USB port on the MAC to avoid using the switch and all the cables. I've powered it up and checked that Audirvana sees it - yes. 

I've a request for Schiit Engineering. Please have the DACs "name" themselves to the OS by their product name instead of the Company Name. OS X sees two USB devices with the same name currently. It would be nice to see "Loki" and "Gungnir" instead. I should have a report soon. Will probably pull the DSD out of an existing SACD ISO rip. Too bad Audirvana can't do this automagically instead of converting to PCM. 

Cheers 
Frank


----------



## sceleratus

I'm certain this has been covered, but I'm too lazy to read all 80 pages.
  
 Why on earth does the Gungnir have three feet instead of four?
 To prevent stacking?
 Do I need to contribute to the Disabled DAC Foundation to get a fourth foot?


----------



## paradoxper

sceleratus said:


> I'm certain this has been covered, but I'm too lazy to read all 80 pages.
> 
> Why on earth does the Gungnir have three feet instead of four?
> To prevent stacking?
> Do I need to contribute to the Disabled DAC Foundation to get a fourth foot?


 
  
 Even 3 feet stack just fine. If you didn't know Gungnir is a budget piece of gear. So no fourth foot for you, er, unless you pony up the big bucks.


----------



## sceleratus

paradoxper said:


> Even 3 feet stack just fine. If you didn't know Gungnir is a budget piece of gear. So no fourth foot for you, er, unless you pony up the big bucks.


 
  
 Please help Gungnir's around the world become stable and have a long and sturdy life, free from scratches.
 Donate to the "Crippled DAC Foundation" today.
 Operators are standing buy.


----------



## paradoxper

sceleratus said:


> Please help Gungnir's around the world become stable and have a long and sturdy life, free from scratches.
> Donate to the "Crippled DAC Foundation" today.
> Operators are standing buy.


 
  
 Stop fussing with your Schiit or become stack free to be scratch free. 
  
 Also, keep your behemoth a full arms length away.


----------



## sceleratus

paradoxper said:


> Stop fussing with your Schiit or become stack free to be scratch free.
> 
> Also, keep your behemoth a full arms length away.


 
  
 fuss, fuss.  sniff, sniff.  mean old poster, stop picking on me.
  
  
 But they play together.


----------



## x838nwy

sceleratus said:


> I'm certain this has been covered, but I'm too lazy to read all 80 pages.
> 
> Why on earth does the Gungnir have three feet instead of four?
> To prevent stacking?
> Do I need to contribute to the Disabled DAC Foundation to get a fourth foot?




From geometry - 3 points in space will always lie in the same plane. A group of 4 points may not. In fact, it's more likely than not that they do not share the same plane whereas with 3 point, it's an absolute certainty.

This means that the 3 footed gungnir will be a lot less likely than the 4 footed gungnir to... Umm... Wibble (you know, like when one leg of a table is shorter than the other three). This is of course providing that the centre of mass, projected on to the plane containing the 3 points, lies within the triangle fromed by said points. If you want to stack something on the gungnir, just make sure the centre of mass (projected on the blah, blah, blah...) doesn't venture outside the triangle and all should be fine.


----------



## srisaikat

neo0617 said:


> I have a problem with the Gungnir DAC. Let's see if anyone can input more thoughts into this ..
> 
> My setup:
> PC (Optical Out) / Notebook (USB) -> Gungnir -> Meier Corda Classic -> HD650 / ES5
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
 If you still have the Gungnir, my story might help you to trouble shoot the humming noise. I went crazy for the humming noise when I installed Gungnir as a replacement of "Audio-gd" DAC. With Audio-Gd there was no humming, but with Gungnir I experienced humming noise with random or intermittent pattern with different loud level at different point of time within a day. I immediately made contact with Jason and as usual he pointed there might be a ground loop. But after many many hours of observation with different tricks and tips later I found it was due to poor voltage regulation or tolerance inside Gungnir. My Gungnir was 230V model, when my main voltage drops near 225V it's start to create noise with it's single ended output (XLR of course remain noise free). There is no problem of humming if voltage raise to 235 to 240 Volt, but on the lower side Gungnir is generating noise when mains is decreasing just by -5V from the rated 230V. It is totally unacceptable, I never found any international brand which failed just at 225V which manufactured with rated 230V. For example my NAD, DENON, Marantz, Audio-Gd never shown any sign of noise even at 205V. There are many countries where 220V is found to be standard Domestic Voltage, so in those countries with the present design Gungnir will fail to operate normally if some kind of extra voltage conditioning is not used. I have mailed Jason about this. He agreed to look into this matter.


----------



## Sonic Defender

srisaikat said:


> Hi,
> If you still have the Gungnir, my story might help you to trouble shoot the humming noise. I went crazy for the humming noise when I installed Gungnir as a replacement of "Audio-gd" DAC. With Audio-Gd there was no humming, but with Gungnir I experienced humming noise with random or intermittent pattern with different loud level at different point of time within a day. I immediately made contact with Jason and as usual he pointed there might be a ground loop. But after many many hours of observation with different tricks and tips later I found it was due to poor voltage regulation or tolerance inside Gungnir. My Gungnir was 230V model, when my main voltage drops near 225V it's start to create noise with it's single ended output (XLR of course remain noise free). There is no problem of humming if voltage raise to 235 to 240 Volt, but on the lower side Gungnir is generating noise when mains is decreasing just by -5V from the rated 230V. It is totally unacceptable, I never found any international brand which failed just at 225V which manufactured with rated 230V. For example my NAD, DENON, Marantz, Audio-Gd never shown any sign of noise even at 205V. There are many countries where 220V is found to be standard Domestic Voltage, so in those countries with the present design Gungnir will fail to operate normally if some kind of extra voltage conditioning is not used. I have mailed Jason about this. He agreed to look into this matter.


 
  
 I hope you report here what Jason finds out about your situation. My experience with Schiit products has been that they are of the highest quality so I am surprised to hear what you are experiencing. That said, there will always be some units that have problems no mater who produces them.


----------



## srisaikat

What I wrote is based on my personal experience. Problem and solution both indicates Voltage Regulation problem. If you ask me about sound quality of Gungnir, after solving the humming problem it has made my rock music collection alive and enjoyable with it's transparent and high resolving sound signature. With Audio-Gd and Marantz my satisfaction was only limited to Jazz. Rock music was not listenable before. Now I am very happy with this upgrade. Speed, details, textures all improved a lot with Gungnir. I requested Jason to see if other 230V model have same problem, so that I can replace the unit.


----------



## srisaikat

*Here is situation update:*
  
 As per mail from Jason,
  
 "_We tested several Gungnirs to see what the raw DC voltages are before the regulators, and all have 30V before the 24V regulator at 220V in--so, there's plenty of regulation still left even at 220V, which is how the product was designed. _
  
_If yours measures differently, then it probably has a bad transformer. I'm copying Alex so he can arrange a return/exchange. You'll need to ship us your Gungnir back, and when it has been dropped off at the shipper and is showing in their tracking system, we'll send a replacement. We'll pay for return shipping by the least cost option that has tracking, up to the cost of shipping it to you in the first place._"
  
 I am really appreciate and grateful with such offer from Schiit. Where as these days most of the time with same situation (based on previous experiences) sellers like to shift the undue responsibilities on buyers. I positively hope, my future upgrades will be from Schiit.


----------



## x838nwy

srisaikat said:


> *Here is situation update:*
> 
> As per mail from Jason,
> 
> ...


 
  
 Jason is a terrific guy. Concise and helpful. No BS. And I think that really translates well into how Schiit works as a company. Hope your issues get sorted out soon, dude.
  
 C


----------



## Sonic Defender

Just finished putting in the second gen USB board (very easy, however the diodes are slightly off, but I like that the lights seem less bright due to this). Damn do I like this DAC, just sounds right to me.


----------



## Sonic Defender

What a difference having that new driver to finally support WASPI Event Style output!! I'm so happy I could **** myself. Prior when stuck with ASIO I couldn't have the Internet running as I would get playback stutters with an annoying degree of regularity. No longer a problem, and the sound with the new USB is sublime. Hey, post 500, how sweet is that.


----------



## Solude

So it seems somewhere along the way I fell on my head.  Gungnir on route :O
  
 Be interesting to hear how it compares/contrasts to the PWD2.  It's from January of this year so I believe Gen1 USB but not bank breaking to replace it with Gen2 should it surprise me.  Also got another Mjolnir in the deal so it should be an interesting couple of weeks.
  
 Someone refresh my memory, was Schiit offering any swaps to Gen1 owners?


----------



## paradoxper

Space restraints must be forcing your hand at this point.
  
  
 But why Mojo? Is GS-X taking up too much space too?


----------



## Solude

Nope.  I think the Mjolnir is slightly bigger if I remember correctly.  Was a package deal.  If I sell the Mjolnir the day it gets here... no loss.  Didn't try to get the gent to split them because part of me wants to see how much my old W4S resulted in my view of the Mjolnir.  The Gungnir and PWD2 will give me two other data points.


----------



## Solude

The other hurdle for the Mjolnir is being balanced only if I do go the CIEM route I'm pooched.  Even if I get a cable mod the gain would be awful high for something that spits 110dB+@1mW


----------



## paradoxper

solude said:


> Nope.  I think the Mjolnir is slightly bigger if I remember correctly.  Was a package deal.  If I sell the Mjolnir the day it gets here... no loss.  Didn't try to get the gent to split them because part of me wants to see how much my old W4S resulted in my view of the Mjolnir.  The Gungnir and PWD2 will give me two other data points.


 
  
 Didn't know if you stacked the PS or not. That's a good point, but I can't really see the PWD hitting the door.
  
 Nonetheless, looking forward to your thoughts.


----------



## x838nwy

solude said:


> Nope.  I think the Mjolnir is slightly bigger if I remember correctly.  Was a package deal.  If I sell the Mjolnir the day it gets here... no loss.  Didn't try to get the gent to split them because part of me wants to see how much my old W4S resulted in my view of the Mjolnir.  The Gungnir and PWD2 will give me two other data points.


 
  
 For some strange reason, I've just measured my PWD and Gungnir.
  
 PWD ~17.5" x 14"
 Gungnir ~ 16" x 8"
  
 Might be of some use...?


----------



## Solude

Hopefully it competes because I'd love those inches back =)  Loaded into the FedEx truck yesterday, should see them next week.


----------



## dbfreak

Really lov'n the Valhalla with the PS Audio Nuwave...


----------



## x838nwy

dbfreak said:


> Really lov'n the Valhalla with the PS Audio Nuwave...




I'm not quit with you here...


----------



## Sonic Defender

It isn't likely, but I thought I would ask if anybody wants/needs a first gen USB board for their Gungnir for free (you would just pay shipping). It seems like such a waste. Frankly, whatever difference there is between the first and second gen boards must be very modest in terms of SQ anyway. If anybody wants it for free let me know, happy to send it to you.


----------



## commtrd

sonic defender said:


> It isn't likely, but I thought I would ask if anybody wants/needs a first gen USB board for their Gungnir for free (you would just pay shipping). It seems like such a waste. Frankly, whatever difference there is between the first and second gen boards must be very modest in terms of SQ anyway. If anybody wants it for free let me know, happy to send it to you.


 
  
 I was really wondering how much difference there really was between the 2nd gen USB board and first gen. If it is quite minimal I prolly won't get in a big hurry changing unless I can just get the board and install it myself. Which I would rather do if possible. Please some feedback from those who have the 2nd gen boards in their Gungnir dacs?


----------



## Solude

I thought the main reason was the chip swap to support 24/176?  Also has some power supply filtering but the main change is to a more supported chip.


----------



## Stealer

removed...


----------



## Sonic Defender

stealer said:


> removed...


 
  
  
 ??? Is the implication that this thread isn't "on-topic" enough?


----------



## Stealer

actually I was "removing" my post cause I found the same question asked..
  
 nothing to do with this thread..


----------



## Sonic Defender

stealer said:


> actually I was "removing" my post cause I found the same question asked..
> 
> nothing to do with this thread..


 
  
 Gotcha, my bad.


----------



## Solude

Gungnir and Mjolnir in house and warming up :O


----------



## TK277

solude said:


> Gungnir and Mjolnir in house and warming up :O


 
  
 Interested in what you think later this week. 
  
 and what HPs you're using.


----------



## Solude

Only have the LCD-3 so... LCD-3 
  
 Speaking of warming up.  I swear this Mjolnir is running hotter than the one I had from the first run.  Likely not the case but it certainly feels that way.  The Gungnir is nice and toasty too.  Loves me some class A bias warmth =)


----------



## TK277

My Gungnir doesn't run too warm, but I don't have an amp running on top or below it, either. 
 Pico slim is a baby in comparison.
  
  
 Also, definitely interested in what you think if you have the LCD-3... was looking at getting the Mjolnir and LCD-2 or 3 to buffer the wait time it takes for me to save up for the Stax SR-009 (or whatever is the latest model is when I have the luxury to drop ~$10,000 at once) and accompanying amp.


----------



## paradoxper

solude said:


> Only have the LCD-3 so... LCD-3
> 
> Speaking of warming up.  I swear this Mjolnir is running hotter than the one I had from the first run.  Likely not the case but it certainly feels that way.  The Gungnir is nice and toasty too.  Loves me some class A bias warmth =)


 
  
 Good to hear it didn't take 4 days this time 'round.


----------



## Solude

I think you are referring to my first time out with the Mjolnir.  In that case, that was more about burn in time than warm up time.  Soloist on the other hand is so slow to warm up.


----------



## Solude

Keeping in mind they're very early impressions but... the Gungnir is quite good.  Surprisingly good performance given the price tag.  The bad however, still early mind you, but the Mjolnir and I still don't get along.  I still need to try it with the PWD2 but that will have to wait until tomorrow.


----------



## srisaikat

srisaikat said:


> *Here is situation update:*
> 
> As per mail from Jason,
> 
> ...


 
  
*Situation Update:*
  
 Here is the quote I got through email from Alex & Jason.
  
 Alex: "We refunded you your return shipping costs."
  
 Alex: "The unit was received in good condition.  The mainboard was replaced and it is currently burning in."
  
 I asked Jason: "if you have sorted out the issues regarding humming at SE output of Gungnir at or below 220V" [230V version]
  
 Jason: "Yes, we have added it to the test procedure. So far, only your Gungnir was affected."
  
 So it seems to be Schiit has added a standard test procedure to avoid any such issues in future regarding voltage regulation due to bad transformer. I also overwhelmed by their service response.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Schiit knows what it takes to build a following, and to build quality devices. These guys and this company are the real deal.


----------



## Bolardito

Im looking for a new DAC to replace my Yulong D18 since i find it too warm paired with the Luxman P1-u.. I'm looking for a more detailed DAC and I wonder if the Gungnir would be what im looking for..I might also consider an Anedio (either 1 or the 2).


----------



## Sonic Defender

The Gungnir is quite detailed, but not at all sterile or lifeless. Everyday I use it I am extremely impressed by how musical it sounds while still getting right under the musics hood.


----------



## cardboardpig

Hi guys, i'm looking to unshackle myself from my desktop computer's sound card (Asus Xonar d2x) and upgrade my amp/cans. My eventual goal is a Gungnir/Mjolnir with a set of Beyerdynamic T1/Audeze LCD-2/Sennheiser HD800 depending on which I end up liking the most.
  
 I read in the Yggdrasil/Ragnarok thread (which are regrettably out of my price range ) some comments that suggested Schiit 'voice' their gear using Audeze cans. I presume this means they do their testing/tuning etc. with Audeze equipment. Will this make a difference to my headphone selection? It doesn't seem like it would but as I haven't managed to Google up any info I thought I would ask.
  
 Thanks


----------



## paradoxper

Don't even try to Pickup Solude's Schiit stack F/S. Call it a day.
  
  
 I wouldn't worry too much as Schiit uses a handful of different headphones throughout their process.
 The Mjolnir does pretty well with all of those aforementioned headphones.
  
 Consensus says: The Audez'es are Mjolnir's little bitch.


----------



## Barry S

cardboardpig said:


> Hi guys, i'm looking to unshackle myself from my desktop computer's sound card (Asus Xonar d2x) and upgrade my amp/cans. My eventual goal is a Gungnir/Mjolnir with a set of Beyerdynamic T1/Audeze LCD-2/Sennheiser HD800 depending on which I end up liking the most.
> 
> I read in the Yggdrasil/Ragnarok thread (which are regrettably out of my price range ) some comments that suggested Schiit 'voice' their gear using Audeze cans. I presume this means they do their testing/tuning etc. with Audeze equipment. Will this make a difference to my headphone selection? It doesn't seem like it would but as I haven't managed to Google up any info I thought I would ask.
> 
> Thanks




The signal chain feeding your headphones can make a big difference in the sound quality. I think you're better off choosing the headphone first and doing some research to find the best dac/amp pairings based on your preference in sound. The Mjolnir/Gungnir is great with the LCD-2's and brightens their warm signature. The HD800 sounds too bright for me with the same combination, but if you prefer a brighter sound, it might work for you.


----------



## Solude

paradoxper said:


> Pickup Solude's Schiit stack F/S. Call it a day.
> 
> Consensus says: The Audez'es are Mjolnir's little bitch.


 
  
 Stack didn't last long... gone west.
  
 And yes the stack and Audeze get along nicely.


----------



## cardboardpig

paradoxper said:


> I wouldn't worry too much as Schiit uses a handful of different headphones throughout their process.
> The Mjolnir does pretty well with all of those aforementioned headphones.
> 
> Consensus says: The Audez'es are Mjolnir's little bitch.


 
  
 Cool. Thanks for the reassurance .
  


barry s said:


> The signal chain feeding your headphones can make a big difference in the sound quality. I think you're better off choosing the headphone first and doing some research to find the best dac/amp pairings based on your preference in sound. The Mjolnir/Gungnir is great with the LCD-2's and brightens their warm signature. The HD800 sounds too bright for me with the same combination, but if you prefer a brighter sound, it might work for you.


 
  
 Good advice and If I were a patient person or had sufficient money to buy everything in quick succession I'd probably do this! Unfortunately I can't really listen to music much at the moment as my wife complains about being able to hear my music when using her computer so I'm keen to get away from my desktop.


----------



## paradoxper

cardboardpig said:


> Cool. Thanks for the reassurance .
> 
> 
> Good advice and If I were a patient person or had sufficient money to buy everything in quick succession I'd probably do this! Unfortunately I can't really listen to music much at the moment as my wife complains about being able to hear my music when using her computer so I'm keen to get away from my desktop.


 
 First order of business is picking up a Mad Dog. They'll sound pretty good out of whatever built-in amp you'd be using.
 And will only scale with better gear. This will offer the isolation it seems you need.


----------



## Zoom25

solude said:


> Stack didn't last long... gone west.
> 
> And yes the stack and Audeze get along nicely.


 
  
 How did you like the Mjolnir/Gungnir in comparison to Soloist/Conductor with LCD-3?


----------



## Solude

Never had the Conductor, only Soloist.  Soloist is more towards the GS-X mk2 side of laid back vs forward.  Which is to say laid back.  That said for the money the Schiit stack meshes really well.  Gungnir to Soloist might be too dark for some though.


----------



## cardboardpig

paradoxper said:


> First order of business is picking up a Mad Dog. They'll sound pretty good out of whatever built-in amp you'd be using.
> And will only scale with better gear. This will offer the isolation it seems you need.


 
 At the moment I have Xonar d2x > Einar vc-01 i > DT990. I quite like the sound of the DT990's I just need to get them away from our PC area so I can raise the volume a bit.


----------



## Zoom25

solude said:


> Never had the Conductor, only Soloist.  Soloist is more towards the GS-X mk2 side of laid back vs forward.  Which is to say laid back.  That said for the money the Schiit stack meshes really well.  Gungnir to Soloist might be too dark for some though.


 
  
 How would you describe the bass response between those three? Which one had the most quantity/presence?


----------



## Solude

GS-X mk2 has bottomless bass.


----------



## Zoom25

I would certainly hope so at it's price point. What about the bass between the Mjolnir and Soloist? I keep hearing that Mjolnir is faster and aggressive and the Soloist is more relaxed and slower, but I've heard mix things about it's bass. Which one has more of a body.


----------



## Solude

Soloist but Mjolnir has quite a bit more swing. Depth or attack, pick your poison.


----------



## tremolo

Has anybody gone from a LD DAC_I to the Gungnir? Would it be an upgrade?
  
 Thx


----------



## harrinj

I'm thinking about selling my UDH-100 and getting a Gungnir. I'm so sick of the problems with this CRAP nuforce DAC and driver issues and it's started popping every 3-10 seconds now on music (adjusting the buffers does not help or different USB cords/ports). I wish I could get a refund...

 I've been wondering since the Gungnir has four RCA out's if it could be set up in ASIO to output discreet 4-Channel FLAC files to a Quad Receiver. I have several Quad Marantz Receivers 4400/4240/4270 and have always wanted to hear them in Quad.


----------



## zackzack

cardboardpig said:


> Hi guys, i'm looking to unshackle myself from my desktop computer's sound card (Asus Xonar d2x) and upgrade my amp/cans. My eventual goal is a Gungnir/Mjolnir with a set of Beyerdynamic T1/Audeze LCD-2/Sennheiser HD800 depending on which I end up liking the most.
> 
> I read in the Yggdrasil/Ragnarok thread (which are regrettably out of my price range ) some comments that suggested Schiit 'voice' their gear using Audeze cans. I presume this means they do their testing/tuning etc. with Audeze equipment. Will this make a difference to my headphone selection? It doesn't seem like it would but as I haven't managed to Google up any info I thought I would ask.
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 I have listened to Audeze LCD 3 before and my feeling is that Schiit Audio loves orthodynamic cans. 
 They are powerful enough to drive high Ohm Senns & Beyers but they pair better
 with Audeze


----------



## Sonic Defender

The Gungnir is a sick DAC, plus it can be upgraded which in my view is a very important consideration. A stack of Schiit would look uber sexy dude.


----------



## sceleratus

This is a little off topic, however, it has to do with digital files going into a gungnir, but more about speakers than HP's
  
 Has anyone tried "Dirac Live Room Correction Software" ?  Using a mic the software records and make an acoustic profile for the room.  The second software component applies the profile to the music going into the DAC, correcting it for the room.
  
 I downloaded the 14 day trial but discovered I had to have a preamp for my mic going into my Mac Mini music server.  I ordered "iMic" from Griffin and I should have it in a couple days.  My mic is a Røde Stereo mic pro.   I played the measurement sounds.  The my speakers slammed and the floor vibrated like I have never experienced.  
  
 I not real keen on torquing with a source file, flac or otherwise, but I thought this might be an nice alternative to acoustic wall panels.


----------



## Oklahoma

Something like that program cannot replace accoustic panels as they actually cut out the reflections. What the program is doing is listening to what frequencies are reverberating and then eqing them out so you don't hear them they still exist you just won't hear them as they are output lower. Works similar to when sound techs eq a room so they don't get feedback with mics. If your intent is to cut bleed to other rooms this will do nothing but if you are looking for the audio to not sound reverberating in uour room this will work somewhat.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk 4


----------



## olor1n

I upgraded from the Gungnir to the M51. It's an improvement in every aspect. Better connectivity, a remote, and a great preamp with volume control that alleviates bit truncation. Set and forget. You won't worry about it being the bottleneck in your chain. It also looks great with the MJ.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

paradoxper said:


> I'd recommend the M51 if you're going with orthos. M51 made the HD800 boring, while the Gungnir was a bit too exciting.
> 
> And I wouldn't pay the M51's asking price, no way no how, it's not worth it.




I think gung pairs well with orthos, or a least the lcd3 with the mojo worked well with the 3's layed back nature. Gung also seems to be pairing well with 007 I'm using now which is also layed back.
Now if there was only a circlotron stat amp to pair with it.....


----------



## paradoxper

dailydoseofdaly said:


> I think gung pairs well with orthos, or a least the lcd3 with the mojo worked well with the 3's layed back nature. Gung also seems to be pairing well with 007 I'm using now which is also layed back.
> Now if there was only a circlotron stat amp to pair with it.....


 
 I should have said only get the M51 if you're not using HD800. Both M51 and Gun pair well with ortho's. The LCD-2 was very good though less resolving than the LCD-3,
  
 If I were to do it again, I'd pass on the M51 as the Gun/Mojo is just the better value.
  
 Yessss, I think there are many that would love some venerable electro-schiit.


----------



## olor1n

The M51 strikes a good balance with the HD800 IMO and I know others that share the view. Don't quite get how it could be construed as "boring", but that's your take.

Also, there are markets outside of the US where the Gungnir is a $1000+ dac and the M51 can be had for a little more. A no brainer when you factor in the sonic improvements and additional features.


----------



## paradoxper

olor1n said:


> The M51 strikes a good balance with the HD800 IMO and I know others that share the view. Don't quite get how it could be construed as "boring", but that's your take.
> 
> Also, there are markets outside of the US where the Gungnir is a $1000+ dac and the M51 can be had for a little more. A no brainer when you factor in the sonic improvements and additional features.


 
 Right, IYO it's a good balance, IMO it's too warm and boring. 
  
 It's also clear I'm in the U.S. hence the price of the M51 being overpriced, IMO. I've long sold the M51, but it's a good DAC, poor value.


----------



## Sonic Defender

While there are likely measureable differences between the M51 and the Gungnir I would be willing to bet in a blind testing situation over enough trials to account for chance, it would be very difficult to reliably pick the two DACs apart. We all think our “audio-memory” is that good, but that isn’t really how the brain works. We can store certain gross concepts of a sound in memory, but we are unable to actually “warehouse” any sound which ultimately means that once you stop listening to a piece of equipment, whatever detailed sound characteristics you noticed before will have to be re-detected by your brain each time. So when we sell our gear and have a period of time until the new gear arrives suddenly we hear the new gear as being so much better, but how accurate do you really think your auditory memory of your past equipment really was? Is it possible that you don’t actually have an accurate mental representation of that equipment left in memory? 
 I know when I sold my Audiolab 8200 to fund the Gungnir purchase I had a period of time with no DAC. Sure I believed the Gungnir to sound better, but how confident should I be in my musical memory? There is a huge difference between remembering general sonic characteristics as opposed to the granular level of detail retrieval and musicality we evaluate with gear like a DAC. Does our brain really store a super detailed sonic memory of sound? Why would it do that? Sure we remember voices, but the differences between voices are often striking, and sometimes we hear somebody’s voice and say man did that guy ever sound like Bill. The brain stores general chunks of information, some of the chunks are more detailed than others, but the final, and main auditory picture is put together by the brain while you are listening, it isn’t based on pure retrieval from memory. This implies that we do not have flawlessly detailed sonic maps in our memory from which to draw. I also will acknowledge the factor of individual difference, so there may be some people with more specialized memory circuits who indeed might remember more detail than the average, but these people should statistically be in the significant minority, and it would require properly designed blind testing procedures to confirm.
 I know we do sometimes hear detail that we didn’t hear before, and while I think that may be true in some instances, it can just as easily be explained by our attentiveness to our new equipment. You’re primed to detect differences as you have created an expectation in your mind of a difference or you wouldn’t have bothered buying the new gear would you? It doesn’t matter if you have been in this hobby for 40 years and have tons of experience, and feel you don’t have expectations anymore, we all do, our brains are essentially the same and we can’t just turn off evolutionary factors. I believe auditory differences between a budget DAC with a less than stellar analogue section as compared to a very good DAC would be reasonable to say are detectable; however, the differences between two quality DACs would be quite another story unless they were engineered in such a way as to have very different sonic characteristics, which I have to admit is possible, but I don’t know if that is the case frequently. I would have to think that the sonic characteristics people respond to are essentially fairly similar so I can’t imagine engineers taking huge risks and making their gear really, really different sounding.
 My point in saying all this is that if you believe you will hear a big difference for those extra hundreds of dollars, then you probably will. But, in my mind the well-designed DACs will probably sound quite a bit the same over much of the sound spectrum. I would love for head-fi to finally set-up some well-designed blind listening tests at a meet.  While I am a skeptic of the uber “golden-ear” that can detect minute differences, I am not so full of myself as to think I know the answers, and I could end up looking like an opinionated fool. It actually would be very easy to design a testing protocol and environment and I wonder why this isn’t done at big meets and industry shows?


----------



## olor1n

I lived with the Gungnir for some weeks under the scrutiny of the HD800. It was still in the stable when the M51 arrived and I was able to compare both for a few weeks. I don't entirely discount the unreliability of auditory memory when you have to mine the depths to recall an experience. Conclusions arrived at after prolonged exposure trumps that doubt for me though. The difference was pronounced and reflected in the heightened enjoyment I experienced listening to music over that period of time. There was no struggle to perceive minute improvements. The M51 sounded right in my system. The Gungnir presented issues that distracted. It was a clear and easy choice.
  
 The Gungnir is a good dac that presents exceptional value in some markets. It's not at the pinnacle, nor is it of a quality to bring into question a preference to another. This applies to the M51 as well.


----------



## dleblanc343

sonic defender said:


> While there are likely measureable differences between the M51 and the Gungnir I would be willing to bet in a blind testing situation over enough trials to account for chance, it would be very difficult to reliably pick the two DACs apart. We all think our “audio-memory” is that good, but that isn’t really how the brain works. We can store certain gross concepts of a sound in memory, but we are unable to actually “warehouse” any sound which ultimately means that once you stop listening to a piece of equipment, whatever detailed sound characteristics you noticed before will have to be re-detected by your brain each time. So when we sell our gear and have a period of time until the new gear arrives suddenly we hear the new gear as being so much better, but how accurate do you really think your auditory memory of your past equipment really was? Is it possible that you don’t actually have an accurate mental representation of that equipment left in memory?


 
 Hey there, it's definitely not worlds of a difference, but it is indeed noticeable. I tried both DAC's on my headphone system and a speaker system.
  
 I had both dacs outputting into the same stereo amp and could A/B at the turn of a knob. What surprised me the most was that going from one to another was like running different crossfeed settings. With the M51, voices became more centered and sense of space hightened a bit, while the overall sound mellowed down a bit.
  
 As an HD800 and HE6 user, that pleased my ears a bit more, but again, it wasn't day and night.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I'm not coming at this trying to say that the Gungnir DAC is as good as it gets; however, I still feel that there is a great deal of reliance on memory that likely is mostly unsupported. For me, I like to think I have a very good ear for detail, but I don't think in blind testing I could really pick my Gungnir from my former 8200. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't think our memory for sound is that detailed and accurate. I have a great degree of respect for other peoples opinions, but without any kind of controls that blinds the listener to what they are listening to, we can't consider our impressions as anything but influenced impressions. I think I am taking this thread out of its intended purpose too much, and I am sorry for that. I guess I ran off on a tangent. My bad, thanks for having been respectful of my ramblings. That is why this is such a great community, the members here are always willing to engage in constructive conversation and not get their egos into things.


----------



## dbalvo

Hey all, looking for a little advice.  I'm trying to decide between the Burson Conductor, and a pairing of the Burson Soloist with the Schiit Gungnir (not considering Mjolnir because I want SE output.)  I want to drive a pair of T5ps, Mr. Speaker Mad Dogs, and eventually (hopefully) the LCD-3s.  I like the sound of the Sololist with the Bifrost Uber, but I want to use that DAC elsewhere and trying to figure out what to replace it with.  Thanks!


----------



## sceleratus

I can't speak to the Burson gear.
 I had a Lyr / UberFrost combo. Then I built a 300B amp.
 I upgraded from the UberFrost to a Gungnir.
 This is vague.....  I am very happy with the upgrade and from the Bifrost, not that it sounded bad.
 My headphones are LCD2's


----------



## cardboardpig

I ended up buying a Gungnir, but as it's close to Christmas my missus confiscated it to give to me as a present. Argh .


----------



## Zoom25

Has anyone paired these with the Emotiva mini + LCD-3?


----------



## doberman78

Hello
if any of you tried to use Gungnir with iUSB Power?i any experience?


----------



## x838nwy

doberman78 said:


> Hello
> if any of you tried to use Gungnir with iUSB Power?i any experience?




I almost did, but my plans didn't work out in the end. I may get get another chance in a couple of weeks time, but I cannot promise anythibg. If you get to try, please let me know how it goes. Thanks


----------



## harrinj

would the Gungnir be better than my Nuforce UDH-100? I am so sick of the POS acting up on my computer that I want to sell it and am looking at the Gungnir. No one ever answers this question not even Schiit themselves will but I'll ask again. since the Gungnir has four RCA stereo outs, could it be set up in custom ASIO mapping to output discreet Quadraphonic FLAC files such as the BD DSOTM and WYWH Quad mixes and I have a Live at Pompeii in discreet 4 channels? If the Gungnir can do this than I am sold.


----------



## TK277

I don't know how many hours the Gungnir takes to burn-in, but I got a pleasant surprise out of listening a few weeks ago when it seemed like more details were presenting themselves (no change in gear through this process). I bought it back in September, but it's probably just now getting to 150–200 hours.


----------



## Solude

harrinj said:


> since the Gungnir has four RCA stereo outs, could it be set up in custom ASIO mapping to output discreet Quadraphonic FLAC files such as the BD DSOTM and WYWH Quad mixes and I have a Live at Pompeii in discreet 4 channels?


 
  
 No.


----------



## cizx

Just got my Gungnir w/ gen 2 USB and I'm getting some horrible thudding noise whenever it's connected to a USB port, via any of the USB2 cables I have, to any of my PCs.  I recorded the sound through my LCD-X (and Mjolnir) with Audacity on my Macbook (held the laptop between the LCD-X cups)... you can hear it here.
  
 I emailed Schiit, but as it's xmas eve I'm sure I won't be getting a reply anytime soon.  Looks like I'm sending it back to Amazon... unless anyone has any ideas.  I've tried different power cables, different wall outlets, different rooms, different computers, different USB cables.  Only have Mjolnir and LCD-X to connect with it, so I can't change those... but the LCD-X works fine with my centrance dacport so I know it's not that.


----------



## Solude

Which driver are your using and what bit and rate?  Can you try coax or toslink?


----------



## cizx

I'm not using any drivers.  
  
 I'm trying Optical now, and it's giving me the same problem.


----------



## Solude

Time to call Schiit then.  Last thing you could try is while music is playing cycle inputs and use something like iTunes or Windows Media Player depending on the OS.


----------



## cizx

Yeah, already sent them an email.  I got a return auth from Amazon, so I'll send it back tomorrow and look for something else.  Maybe that Master-7 I've been eyeing.


----------



## harrinj

cizx said:


> Yeah, already sent them an email.  I got a return auth from Amazon, so I'll send it back tomorrow and look for something else.  Maybe that Master-7 I've been eyeing.




I'm glad the seller on amazon didn't send me yours!!!


----------



## cizx

I got it from Audio Advisor... I assume they're pretty good, as they have a really nice catalog and stuff.
  
 Anyway, Amazon is pretty awesome for returning stuff.  I wish they carried more  audiophile brands.


----------



## harrinj

cizx said:


> I got it from Audio Advisor... I assume they're pretty good, as they have a really nice catalog and stuff.
> 
> Anyway, Amazon is pretty awesome for returning stuff.  I wish they carried more  audiophile brands.




Yeah same sold by audio-advisor. There were only 3 left when I bought it so that's why I said I'm glad I didn't get yours :/ yeah I wish amazon carried more audiophile stuff, I don't understand why these companies don't sell on amazon (with Amazon PRIME!!!) if anything they'd get more customers because of the amazon store card. 

The one thing I hate about Audio-Advisor is they send me these stupid magazines. I didn't ask to be sent them, I just throw them straight into the trash.


----------



## Chesterfield

I can't really write a review of the Gungnir since I have nothing with which to compare it: it's my first DAC other than the one in my Pure I-20 (well, and the one in my iPad...). I bought it when Schiit was considering a balanced-in, single-ended-out tube amp to go with the Gungnir. Sadly, much to my disappointment, that project was scrapped, and Schiit left a gap in its product line: no tube amp with Gungnir's footprint. Since I wanted a tube amp, not the solid state Mjolnir, and I didn't have the funds for a fully balanced tube amp, I ended up buying a WA2, which can stack on the Gungnir. But when I first bought the Gungnir, I was using a Valhalla with HD-700s, then HD800s. I'm not sure how to describe the effect of the Gungnir--it's as if I had a gorgeous old oil painting: the Gungnir instantly wiped away centuries of grime. Suddenly my sound was clean and gorgeous, but at first, much too sparkly. Listening to rock, high hats and cymbals were just too present--distractingly so. Fortunately, after about 150 hours of burn in, the high treble spike mellowed considerably. As I said, I really don't have a frame of reference, but even just using the Gungnir's single-ended output, I couldn't be more pleased. The Dac seems very neutral overall, perhaps tending warm after it's been burned in. It goes wonderfully well with both the WA2 and HD-800s.


----------



## harrinj

chesterfield said:


> I can't really write a review of the Gungnir since I have nothing with which to compare it: it's my first DAC other than the one in my Pure I-20 (well, and the one in my iPad...). I bought it when Schiit was considering a balanced-in, single-ended-out tube amp to go with the Gungnir. Sadly, much to my disappointment, that project was scrapped, and Schiit left a gap in its product line: no tube amp with Gungnir's footprint. Since I wanted a tube amp, not the solid state Mjolnir, and I didn't have the funds for a fully balanced tube amp, I ended up buying a WA2, which can stack on the Gungnir. But when I first bought the Gungnir, I was using a Valhalla with HD-700s, then HD800s. I'm not sure how to describe the effect of the Gungnir--it's as if I had a gorgeous old oil painting: the Gungnir instantly wiped away centuries of grime. Suddenly my sound was clean and gorgeous, but at first, much too sparkly. Listening to rock, high hats and cymbals were just too present--distractingly so. Fortunately, after about 150 hours of burn in, the high treble spike mellowed considerably. As I said, I really don't have a frame of reference, but even just using the Gungnir's single-ended output, I couldn't be more pleased. The Dac seems very neutral overall, perhaps tending warm after it's been burned in. It goes wonderfully well with both the WA2 and HD-800s.


 
 I agree. I noticed this DAC seems to 'slow' music down and almost like it lifts a layer off the music to deliver beautiful neutral sound. I use mine in Single ended mode too. I'm using it with my Valhalla and HE-500 (The HE-500's actually go very well with this amp even though lots of people disagree) right now but mostly with my Vintage receivers it sounds so nice. I want to get a balanced amp at some point to try these HE-500's balanced. 

 I noticed a difference right away from my Crapforce UDH-100.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Anyone tried one of those external usb power supplies, eg. iusb or similar device with the gungnir? Any impressions good/bad/indifferent. Thanks ddod


----------



## srisaikat

cizx said:


> I'm not using any drivers.
> 
> I'm trying Optical now, and it's giving me the same problem.


 

 Though I think it is really late to reply your post as I was not in touch with forum, still I will share my experience. My Gungnir had same problem as yours, I wrote Jason about it and at first he indicated the cause might be due to Ground Loop. Later it was found due to a bad power transformer, which was replaced by the SCHIIT after sending the unit back. I think as a company they should more careful and strict inspecting and selecting their components. For details you may visit this link - http://www.hifivision.com/dac/46949-schiit-gungnir-my-experience-my-dilemma.html
  
 Regards


----------



## schneller

Have any of your Gungnir owners compared it against the ARCAM irDAC? Given their similarity and rave reviews of the latter (by WhatHiFi) I find myself cross-shopping them.


----------



## cizx

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Anyone tried one of those external usb power supplies, eg. iusb or similar device with the gungnir? Any impressions good/bad/indifferent. Thanks ddod


 
 Gungnir doesn't get power from the USB port, so why would this have an effect?  I'm not saying it wouldn't, just that I don't see how it would.  I think you could get the same effect by taping the power pins on the USB cable.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

cizx said:


> Gungnir doesn't get power from the USB port, so why would this have an effect?  I'm not saying it wouldn't, just that I don't see how it would.  I think you could get the same effect by taping the power pins on the USB cable.




Thanks for the info. Yeah may have no affect what so ever, was curious if anyone had tried one since I've been seeing them around hf more


----------



## Sonic Defender

cizx said:


> Gungnir doesn't get power from the USB port, so why would this have an effect?  I'm not saying it wouldn't, just that I don't see how it would.  I think you could get the same effect by taping the power pins on the USB cable.


 

 Just curious where you are going in your DAC journey as I notice you are selling your current DAC?


----------



## cizx

sonic defender said:


> Just curious where you are going in your DAC journey as I notice you are selling your current DAC?


 
 I'm not sure yet.  I'm scaling back, or trying to, until I'm done with school in May.  Then I'll be able to spend more time listening... hopefully.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Alright been messing around with taping pin 1 (power) on my usb cable tonight. Unfortunately the pin does seem to need contact for the macbook pro to recognize the gungnir(or vise versa). Pull the tape off and the gungnir is immediately recognized.


----------



## Defiant00

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Alright been messing around with taping pin 1 (power) on my usb cable tonight. Unfortunately the pin does seem to need contact for the macbook pro to recognize the gungnir(or vise versa). Pull the tape off and the gungnir is immediately recognized.


 
  
 Pretty sure that Schiit's USB board is powered through the USB connection. Otherwise it wouldn't be found by the computer until you turned the DAC on.


----------



## neoresin

harrinj said:


> I agree. I noticed this DAC seems to 'slow' music down and almost like it lifts a layer off the music to deliver beautiful neutral sound. I use mine in Single ended mode too. I'm using it with my Valhalla and HE-500 (The HE-500's actually go very well with this amp even though lots of people disagree) right now but mostly with my Vintage receivers it sounds so nice. I want to get a balanced amp at some point to try these HE-500's balanced.
> 
> I noticed a difference right away from my Crapforce UDH-100.


 

 I noticed this too! Jumping from one source (like the Cowon J3 or even the Bifrost) then coming to the Gung "slows" the timing down (or probably speeds it up depending on the source you're listening to) - likely due to the "Adapticlock™ clock regeneration system", yeah? It also allows (for lack of a better word) "texturing" of the sound to happen more often. I'm continually astounded at the feel of the timing, and how appropriate it is, regardless of the song I'm listening to. It's truly a great feat!


----------



## schneller

Wish I knew how well the Gungnir would pair with a musical integrated amp with PRaT from NAIM.


----------



## schneller

Has anyone here owned the Gungnir with Gen2 USB and done extensive comparisons with the Yulong DA-8?
  
 Can anyone comment on the upgrade given the modest $350 price difference?
  
 (Note: DSD is not that important to me.)
  
 I am looking for a stand-alone DAC that will act as a transport between an HTPC source and an integrated amp.


----------



## the8o88y

Does anyone know if the Gungnir pairs well balanced with a Violectric 181, and if they'd have enough juice to power orthos?
  
 I'm considering this combo for my LCD-X, since my Mjolnir and Gungnir were stolen. I think the DAC is great, but  the amp made the highs too aggressive imo.


----------



## rnadell

Is anyone here using the gungnir with an otl? How does it mate with tubes?
 thanks


----------



## Barry S

the8o88y said:


> Does anyone know if the Gungnir pairs well balanced with a Violectric 181, and if they'd have enough juice to power orthos?
> 
> I'm considering this combo for my LCD-X, since my Mjolnir and Gungnir were stolen. I think the DAC is great, but  the amp made the highs too aggressive imo.


 
  
 V181 owners have confirmed it powers the LCD-2s with no problem, and I find the LCD-Xs are not only more efficient, but easier to pair than the LCD-2s. I agree that the Mjolnir is at the upper end of brightness for the LCD-X and makes for a detailed and airy, but slightly lean presentation. 
  
 If I was starting over with the LCD-Xs, I'd consider the Dangerous Source instead of the Gungnir. Why? The DS sounds nearly identical to the Gungnir--which is to say, clean, neutral, detailed, and dynamic, *and *it has a very good amp built-in, along with some good preamp features. From what I've read, the V181 is a slightly warm-sounding amp with moderately-sized soundstage. The DS amp is very clean, powerful neutral-sounding amp with moderately-sized soundstage. You might buy the DS, listen to the amp with the LCD-X--and call it a day. I think the LCD-X sounds pretty nice out of the DS. The Gungnir (with USB) is $850 vs. $900 for the DS--so the amp is just gravy.
  
  


rnadell said:


> Is anyone here using the gungnir with an otl? How does it mate with tubes?
> thanks


 
  
 No OTL, but I've used the Gungnir with the Lyr and the Vali--and they both sound great. No reason it wouldn't be terrific with any tube amp--it's a first-rate DAC.


----------



## huberd

I have the Gungnir and paired with the Valhalla. I think it sounds great. To tell you the truth I don't think you could get any better. I use them with the Beyerdynamic T90. I have the Heimdall cables and Nordost USB cable.


----------



## earwaxxer

I bought the Gungnir without the USB and added the Gen2 later. For sure, the USB Gen2 sounds as good or better than their SPDIF inputs, but I disagree that it blows away other separate USB/SPDIF converters. I have the Wyrd4snd ULink and the Gen2 does not sound noticeably better than the ULink doing the USB/SPDIF duties, IMO. What I have also noticed about the Gungnir is that in the persuit of an 'analog' sound they may have over done it with too much emphasis on midrange, or DE-emphasis of highs (roll off). Not sure. Probably system dependent. Throwing some tubes after it is a definate plus though IMO. I used a tube pre with it and really liked it. Tubes add some 'sparkle' to the highs and a bit more 'punch'. IMO the Gungnir is a bit too flabby. It may be that I use an Emotiva XPA-2 that tends to be a very 'well behaved' high power amp. A bit 'analog' to begin with...


----------



## Sonic Defender

It isn't often that you hear of tubes adding sparkle, but I haven't tube rolled myself so perhaps this is more common. My experience with tubes, and my reading here seems to suggest that tubes have an overall smoothing effect as compared to solid state amplification topologies. I find plenty of high frequency energy with my Gungnir, so perhaps that can be taken as some evidence of the system dependency you are alluding to.


----------



## Carlitos

hi guys!  is the gungnir compatible with 32khz sample rate?


----------



## earwaxxer

carlitos said:


> hi guys!  is the gungnir compatible with 32khz sample rate?


 
 I doubt it, but why? Anything that is 32khz needs to be upsampled a tad.


----------



## rnadell

Has anyone compared the Gungnir with the Concero? I am seriously considering 
 the Gungnir and just curious before I pull the trigger. Thanks


----------



## Barry S

rnadell said:


> Has anyone compared the Gungnir with the Concero? I am seriously considering
> the Gungnir and just curious before I pull the trigger. Thanks


 
 I've directly compared them, and they're both top notch DACs. If you're super tight on space, the Concero is a good option. Otherwise, I like the three outputs on the Gungnir, the warranty, and the upgrade ability.


----------



## futurecity

Does anybody know if I need a preamp between my gungnir and powered focal monitors?  If so, what preamp would be good under 1k?  The mjolnir?  Or is there something better around a similar price range.


----------



## Barry S

futurecity said:


> Does anybody know if I need a preamp between my gungnir and powered focal monitors?  If so, what preamp would be good under 1k?  The mjolnir?  Or is there something better around a similar price range.


 

 I've gone directly out from my Gungnir to powered monitors without a pre-amp. The only drawback is there's no way to set the volume without adjusting it on each speaker. The Mjolnir can used as a preamp, but you could probably find something less expensive, if you don't plan to use the Mjolnir as an amp.


----------



## futurecity

barry s said:


> I've gone directly out from my Gungnir to powered monitors without a pre-amp. The only drawback is there's no way to set the volume without adjusting it on each speaker. The Mjolnir can used as a preamp, but you could probably find something less expensive, if you don't plan to use the Mjolnir as an amp.


 
  
 Thanks.  Does the Mjolnir sound good as a pre?  Any recommendations for something else?


----------



## futurecity

Also, if I use the volume control on JRiver, is there going to be a noticeable decrease in sound quality?


----------



## Barry S

futurecity said:


> Also, if I use the volume control on JRiver, is there going to be a noticeable decrease in sound quality?


 

 The Mjolnir sounds fine as a preamp.  I don't really have any reccs for a preamp only.  If I needed I preamp, I'd be tempted to sell the Gungnir and buy a Dangerous Source--which has nice preamp capabilities, sounds excellent as a DAC, and has a pretty decent headphone amp circuit. Try the JRiver volume control and see if that works for you--it might be all you need.


----------



## earwaxxer

futurecity said:


> Also, if I use the volume control on JRiver, is there going to be a noticeable decrease in sound quality?


 
 I havent noticed a difference using the JRiver volume control. There have been many, including the iDSD designers who shun the digital volume control no matter what. I upsample my redbook to 24/192 before hand with foobar, then JRiver bumps it up to 64bit and does the attenuation there. - Personally I think the opinions for and against are not based on much of a perceived difference. EVERY method of attenuation is going to have consequences. Even if you choose the best resistors in a stepped attenuator there will be consequences.


----------



## futurecity

Thanks.  It's either that or a used pre (maybe Mjolnir).


----------



## rwelles

futurecity said:


> Does anybody know if I need a preamp between my gungnir and powered focal monitors?  If so, what preamp would be good under 1k?  The mjolnir?  Or is there something better around a similar price range.


 
 I'm using a passive preamp, Luminous Audio Axiom II. It's fully balanced going into an Emotiva amp to Mini Maggie's. I ordered a second output on the Axiom to drive a sub (also fully balanced. Their balanced models start at $300.


----------



## futurecity

Ok, I have my Gungnir going directly into my Focal CMS50 powered monitors.  I have the input set at +4 on the focals, which seems better as the gain going into the speakers seems too much.    The volume control on the speakers is not continuous, rather it moves in notches. Therefore I have it set up at the second notch and I am using the digital volume control in JRiver.  Anything higher and I have to set the digital attenuation very low in Jriver.
  
  I'm wondering would a Preamp like the Mjolnir help with this volume control issue?  Also, would it improve the sound in anyway?  I have heard people say that a preamp will improve the sound going into the amp vs directly.  I'm still waiting for it to break in fully, got around 40 hours on it so far.  I am using monoprice XLR cables and an AudioQuest Cinnamon USB cable.  Is it true that the USB is inferior to the Coax?  I have the USB2 version.  I'll also consider the passive preamp above, thank you.
  
 Also, will upgrading my XLR cables and USB cable result in a decent improvement in sound?
  
 Also, just for laughs, how much would a DAC with a significant increase in sound quality over the Gungnir go for?  Or should I upgrade my monitors ?  
  
 Thanks
 Future


----------



## blitzxgene

futurecity said:


> Ok, I have my Gungnir going directly into my Focal CMS50 powered monitors.  I have the input set at +4 on the focals, which seems better as the gain going into the speakers seems too much.    The volume control on the speakers is not continuous, rather it moves in notches. Therefore I have it set up at the second notch and I am using the digital volume control in JRiver.  Anything higher and I have to set the digital attenuation very low in Jriver.
> 
> I'm wondering would a Preamp like the Mjolnir help with this volume control issue?  Also, would it improve the sound in anyway?  I have heard people say that a preamp will improve the sound going into the amp vs directly.  I'm still waiting for it to break in fully, got around 40 hours on it so far.  I am using monoprice XLR cables and an AudioQuest Cinnamon USB cable.  Is it true that the USB is inferior to the Coax?  I have the USB2 version.  I'll also consider the passive preamp above, thank you.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd say get a preamp just to not have to reach over and adjust each monitor individually every song. I run a similar setup but with audio-gd stuff. As for usb inferior to coax, it comes down to implementation. I wouldn't worry too much about that with the gungnir though, as it's some good schiit. See purrins 21 dac shootout thread. (My master 7 is ranked lower than the gungnir solely due to usb implementation, even though it's more than double the price.) 
  
 As for the cable debate... I personally lean towards the "it can make a difference" side of the whale, but it's also really expensive in most cases just to hear any potential gains. If you go that route try to find occ copper or occ silver and stay away from anything plated (silver plated copper, etc) as a general rule. 
  
 As for a dac with a significant increase in sound quality, you're at the tip top percentage of how good sound can possibly sound. Most things beyond this point come down to subtle differences in how sound is presented. Just go for nicer monitors and revel in some awesome sound.


----------



## futurecity

What would be a good upgrade for my monitors?  I am usually going to be listening nearfield/desktop and I doubt I can have a sub (apartment).  I'm thinking focal cms65, event opal, dynaudio.  Or should I be looking at passives?


----------



## Sonic Defender

I would agree with blitzxgene, speakers make far more of a difference once you reach this level of sound reproduction quality. I would love to see if people can in blind testing actually tell the difference between a $800 DAC like Gungnir, and a $2000 DAC. Personally, I would be quite shocked if anybody could reliably tell the difference. Speakers on the other hand are well known to make the most noticeable impact on the sound quality of a system. Of course, speakers are no different than any other component in that there will always be a point of diminishing returns. If you buy a $5000 pair of speakers or a $10 000 pair, does it seem reasonable that the more expensive speaker will sound twice as good?
  
 Recently I purchased a pair of Neat Motive 1 speakers and augmented them with a small, but capable REL subwoofer. I feel this change has had a significant impact by increasing the sound quality of my system. If you are in doubt about your monitors that might be the target you can most reasonably expect to benefit from an upgrade. The Gungnir sounds fantastic, and is widely felt to be a stellar performing DAC with upgrade potential so that might not have much impact on your system if you opt to change the DAC.


----------



## earwaxxer

Adding a tube pre to the Gungnir is a good match from my experience. The Gungnir needs some sex appeal IMO. Its a bit too honest.


----------



## futurecity

Would adding an active pre like the mjolnir to my active speakers be a good idea for sound quality?


----------



## Mr.Sneis

You could set the volume on your active speakers to one spot and then control on the mjolnir so it would be a great idea for convenience at least.


----------



## Erukian

rwelles said:


> I'm using a passive preamp, Luminous Audio Axiom II. It's fully balanced going into an Emotiva amp to Mini Maggie's. I ordered a second output on the Axiom to drive a sub (also fully balanced. Their balanced models start at $300.


 
  
 Super jealous of this setup.
  
 How do you like the mini maggies and have you heard the full size maggies for comparison?


----------



## earwaxxer

futurecity said:


> Would adding an active pre like the mjolnir to my active speakers be a good idea for sound quality?


 
 This is the classic question that we all ask ourselves, and wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat. Its never ending... Its synergy. The purist's among us believe less is more. I'm one of those. I also like the sound of tubes! I'm not using them now though... See the iFi iDSD posts...


----------



## rwelles

erukian said:


> Super jealous of this setup.
> 
> How do you like the mini maggies and have you heard the full size maggies for comparison?


 
 I've not had a chance to experience full-sized maggies. The minis are very interesting. I've always been a "point-source" kinda guy. These are my first bipolar speakers. Wonderful sense of depth. Room placement and treatment are critical. I've raised the DWM off the floor to get more direct sound from it. Since I'm running a Rythmik sub with them, I'm not worried about loss of bass from raising the DWM.


----------



## futurecity

rwelles said:


> I'm using a passive preamp, Luminous Audio Axiom II. It's fully balanced going into an Emotiva amp to Mini Maggie's. I ordered a second output on the Axiom to drive a sub (also fully balanced. Their balanced models start at $300.


 
 Would this work well going into active monitors direct from the gungnir?


----------



## rwelles

futurecity said:


> Would this work well going into active monitors direct from the gungnir?


 
 To be clear, the preamp goes in between the Gungnir and the active monitors. (Seems obvious, but the question is a bit ambiguous.) 
  
 If your monitors have balanced inputs, then get the balanced version and use the Gungnir's balanced outputs.
  
 If your monitors only have RCA inputs, then get the unbalanced version, using the Gungnir's RCA outputs.
  
 Don't try to go from balanced to unbalanced or vice versa with a passive preamp. Should work great!


----------



## futurecity

Thanks.  I'm considering that xlr passive pre over the mjolnir, given the latter may color the sound.  
  
 Any recommendations for decent XLR interconnects that would offer an improvement over monoprice?  I'm looking at spending no more than aprox. $200 on XLR pairs. Something on the neutral/musical side given i have active studio monitors.  i dont want to make the system sound brighter than it is.
  
  I'm planning on buying the audioquest coffee or the mapleshade clear plus for my USB cable.


----------



## TK277

futurecity said:


> Thanks.  I'm considering that xlr passive pre over the mjolnir, given the latter may color the sound.
> 
> Any recommendations for decent XLR interconnects that would offer an improvement over monoprice?  I'm looking at spending no more than aprox. $200 on XLR pairs. Something on the neutral/musical side given i have active studio monitors.  i dont want to make the system sound brighter than it is.
> 
> I'm planning on buying the audioquest coffee or the mapleshade clear plus for my USB cable.


 
 Ever try Blue Jeans Cable? I have no experience with XLRs since my system isn't balanced, but they made me a beauty of a RCA to 3.5mm that I use to connect my Gungnir to my Pico Slim (seems odd maybe, but my headphone of choice is actually a pair of IEMs).


----------



## Erukian

futurecity said:


> Thanks.  I'm considering that xlr passive pre over the mjolnir, given the latter may color the sound.


 
  
 I wouldn't buy the mjolnir with the intent of using it as a balanced passive pre, it's primary job is to be a kickass headphone amplifier first, the fact it has balanced pre-outs is a bonus. It uses a high quality pot so I don't think you'd notice much difference. Just my two cents.


----------



## earwaxxer

Instead of using a preamp - especially a 'passive' one, try the iFi iDSD. I have not listened to the headphone output. From what I have heard from the line outs its nothings short of fantastic. --- I'm loving this new trend in digital - I call it the DAC du jour. Very inexpensive and great for experimenting and mix and match. Its a no brainer at less than $200...


----------



## zachchen1996

tk277 said:


> Ever try Blue Jeans Cable? I have no experience with XLRs since my system isn't balanced, but they made me a beauty of a RCA to 3.5mm that I use to connect my Gungnir to my Pico Slim (seems odd maybe, but my headphone of choice is actually a pair of IEMs).


 

 mind posting a pic of your gungnir/pico rig? Also thinking about getting a desktop dac for my earphones xp


----------



## TK277

zachchen1996 said:


> mind posting a pic of your gungnir/pico rig? Also thinking about getting a desktop dac for my earphones xp


 
 Heh, it started out as a pursuit for a black background on my music. And I don't take my expensive toys on the go, nor do I listen to music on the go or during frequent activity. Shared living spaces mean no speakers, and open headphones aren't much more private. I don't like people hearing my music anymore than they like to hear it. So, I settled on earphones and worked my way up to the ES5s.
  
 
  
 Someday I'll get a balanced amp (Mjolnir most likely) and nice set of Audeze or Senns. Then the desktop DAC will make more sense.


----------



## noebelino

Does the Gungnir need the 5v from the USB cable? The question was asked before, but i cannot find the answer...
  
 Someone using the Gungnir without 5V line? Improvements?


----------



## huberd

No the Gungnir has its own power supply.


----------



## Defiant00

noebelino said:


> Does the Gungnir need the 5v from the USB cable? The question was asked before, but i cannot find the answer...
> 
> Someone using the Gungnir without 5V line? Improvements?


 
  


huberd said:


> No the Gungnir has its own power supply.


 
  
 Unless someone has tested otherwise, I'm almost positive that Schiit's USB card is powered via USB, which is why it doesn't disconnect from your computer if you turn your DAC off.


----------



## huberd

This is true. I just did the test. The USB card is powered by your computer. Not good in my opinion but it sill sounds better than my optical cable. I would like to get a computer with coax out. There are a few motherboard out there that have one.


----------



## Defiant00

huberd said:


> This is true. I just did the test. The USB card is powered by your computer. Not good in my opinion but it sill sounds better than my optical cable. I would like to get a computer with coax out. There are a few motherboard out there that have one.


 
  
 What's wrong with that? It seems like the ideal way to do it since:
 1) You don't have to worry about it connecting/disconnecting from your computer.
 2) The USB portion likely draws very little power and is just doing digital -> digital, so quality shouldn't be dependent on the power quality coming from USB.


----------



## BeyerMonster

*EDITED 2014/04/10 - After further investigation, I can only reproduce the proble with Gungnir + Foobar. I could not reproduce the problem with 2 other USB Audio devices + Foobar. I could not reproduce the problem using **Gungnir + **MusicBee. As such, I think it's only 50/50 as to who is really at fault. Added more detail below, but leaving this post here since the only other posts I see on the Gen 2 **USB claim that everything is working flawlessly with WASAPI(Event).*
  
 Hi all, just received my Schiit stack including a Gungnir w/ USB Gen 2 today and I've noticed a recurring problem. Every time I start up a USB audio stream there's either a few very noticeable crackles/pops or a stutter in the first 3 seconds or so. Can easily be reproduced by simply pressing pause then play or pressing play when music is already playing. Has anyone else experienced this?
  
 The problem seems to appear when I combine Foobar + Gungnir. I can't reproduce the problem when using MusicBee or other USB Audio devices. I'm almost positive that the source is somewhere between the Gungnir drivers and the Gungnir's USB inputs. I don't think it's the Mjolnir, cabling, or anything else, because it does not appear to happen with the Gungnir via Optical or with any other gear using the same cabling.
  
 Here's my whole setup which should hopefully be enough information to diagnose/confirm the issue.
  
 This setup reliably makes several snap/crackle/pops in the 1.5-2s after music starts flowing about 90% of the time:
 PC->*Schiit USB(WASAPI Event)->USB->Gungnir*->SE cables->Mjolnir->Audeze stock balanced cables->Audeze LCD-3
  
 This setup reliably makes several snap/crackle/pops in the 1.5-2s after music starts flowing about 10% of the time:
 PC->*Schiit USB(WASAPI Push)->USB->Gungnir*->SE cables->Mjolnir->Audeze stock balanced cables->Audeze LCD-3
  
 This setup occasionally makes the noises snap/crackle/pops in the 1.5-2s after music starts flowing < 5% of the time, but it will happen:
 PC->*Schiit USB(ASIO)->USB->Gungnir*->SE cables->Mjolnir->Audeze stock balanced cables->Audeze LCD-3
  
 All of the following reliably do NOT make a similar snap/crackle/pop:
 PC->*S/PDIF Pass-Through->Optical->Gungnir*->SE cables->Mjolnir->Audeze stock balanced cables->Audeze LCD-3
 PC->*Tenor USB->USB**->V800*->SE cables->V200->Audeze stock unbalanced cables->Audeze LCD-3
PC->*S/PDIF Pass-Through*->*Optical**->V800*->SE cables->V200->Audeze stock unbalanced cables->Audeze LCD-3
 PC->*SPDIF ALO(Pan Am) USB->USB**->ALO Pan Am*->Audeze stock unbalanced cables->Audeze LCD-3
  
 PC is Windows 7 with an Asus Xonar DX running Foobar communicating via WASAPI(event) with a 5s buffer and basically nothing else going on (Core i7 with tons of spare CPU, so computer shouldn't be the problem). I tried buffers of 1s, 1.5s, and 5s, but it didn't seem to make a difference.
 USB Cable is a random 6 ft USB cable that came with my V800 (Not sure this was even supposed to be in there, as I bought a demo model).
Also note that the "Buy better gear" light never came on at any time in this process.
  
 I did go through all the FAQs and Troubleshooting steps in all of the following:
 http://schiit.com/faq/usb-problems
 http://schiit.com/faq/dac-problems
  
 Gungnir is isolated to a USB controller by itself.

  
 Due to lack of available desk space the Mjolnir is on top of Gungnir on top of an Onkyo Receiver (turned off) and next to a small bookshelf loudspeaker. I don't think this is related to placement, but I'll let someone chime in.
  
 No power conditioning in this setup, but the computer is plugged into an APC UPS and all audio gear is plugged into a surge protector going into the same outlet. However, nothing except the 2 Schiit pieces are powered on atm.


----------



## BeyerMonster

beyermonster said:


> Hi all, just received my Schiit stack including a Gungnir w/ USB Gen 2 today and I've noticed a recurring problem. Every time I start up a USB audio stream there's either a few very noticeable crackles/pops or a stutter in the first 3 seconds or so. Can easily be reproduced by simply pressing pause then play. Has anyone else experienced this?


 
 I've been slogging my way through this thread (not entirely sure why I'd put myself through this) looking for similar issues and noticed someone mention a problem using WASAPI(event). I hadn't really considered that a possiblity, so I went ahead and tried the other output device types and tried my pause or restart test and I found:

With WASAPI(event): I can get the artifacts to happen 80-90% of the time.
With WASAPI(push): It goes down to maybe 10%
WIth ASIO for CMedia: I haven't heard it.
  
 Also wanted to add that the sound I hear is NOT the relay click. I'm familiar with that noise already.


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## dailydoseofdaly

Reading beyermonster's first post above made wonder, has anyone successfully got the buy better gear light to turn on? I remember Jason saying some converters would but I've yet to see it


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## Jason Stoddard

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Reading beyermonster's first post above made wonder, has anyone successfully got the buy better gear light to turn on? I remember Jason saying some converters would but I've yet to see it


 
 Try it with an Airport Express--this is the most reliable way to get BBG to light.
  
 Or a 10-year-old CD player--they're frequently off frequency by that time...


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Ok your on, I'm pretty sure I have a cheap old CD player around somewhere I'll try it after work 

follow up
alright i found a toshiba dvd player from 98 that also plays cd's. I hooked the player via optical and coaxial to see if maybe one would trigger the bbg light. AND!!!! no light, the gungnir worked fine with optical and coax during cd playback. However the gungnir was not totally happy about it, when the music was paused the relay in the gung would click like crazy on either input but immediately stop during playback. So the search for really crappy gear continues...


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## TK277

beyermonster said:


> Hi all, just received my Schiit stack including a Gungnir w/ USB Gen 2 today and I've noticed a recurring problem. Every time I start up a USB audio stream there's either a few very noticeable crackles/pops or a stutter in the first 3 seconds or so. Can easily be reproduced by simply pressing pause then play. Has anyone else experienced this?
> 
> I'm almost positive that the source is somewhere between the Gungnir drivers and the Gungnir's USB inputs. I don't think it's the Mjolnir, cabling, or anything else, because it does not appear to happen with the Gungnir via Optical or with any other gear using the same cabling.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm wondering... why do you opt to use SE cables to connect the Schiit Gungnir and Mjolnir? 
  
 ---

 I rec'd my PYST XLR cables today. Tomorrow my Mjolnir and LCD-3 should arrive via FedEx from their previous owner.


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## BeyerMonster

tk277 said:


> I'm wondering... why do you opt to use SE cables to connect the Schiit Gungnir and Mjolnir?


 
 I have 2 sets of balanced interconnects on order, but I don't currently have any with me right now.


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## TK277

beyermonster said:


> I have 2 sets of balanced interconnects on order, but I don't currently have any with me right now.


 
 Ah. I hope you will write a little blurb on the sound difference, if any. ^^


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## StefanJK

I received my Gungnir+Mjolnir stack last week.  The Gungnir came with an incorrectly configured and non-functional USB card, with jumpers that were not soldered correctly (which Schiit notified me about before the Gungnir arrived, offering a helpful discount).  I got the replacement USB card two days ago and set up the system.  
  
 One question that I've not seen answered here: what are the correct C-Media Asio driver settings?  If you click on the driver settings, you get a pop-up that looks like this:
  

  
 There are settings for bit-depth and latency.  What is the correct setting for bit-depth?  There are three offerings: 16/16 bits, 24/24 bits and 32/32 bits.  Why two numbers?  Why no option for bit-depth of the file?  Is this a max bit-depth for the device?  I've checked for the Gungnir clicks when you switch between files of different bit-depths, and I get them going from 16 to 24 bit-depth and the other way around independent of this setting.  In particular, I can play 24 bit files and I get the click between 16 and 24 bit files even with the 16 bit-depth setting.   Does the driver settings panel do anything at all for bit depth?  How could I tell?  I assume that 24/24 is the best setting, but I'd like to know that my driver install and USB card configuration is correct to start with.  There is one link I found from last fall where the driver settings look slightly different.  I have a Win 7 machine.  
  
 UBS input is much better than toslink.  Which may be just my toslink out being horrible?  
  
 Update (April 13): on the DSD settings page, Schiit recommends setting the C-Media Asio driver to 24/24 bit and a latency of 50ms.  So I'm going with that.  I emailed Schiit as well, heared from Laura that she passed it to their tech, nothing since then.


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## BeyerMonster

stefanjk said:


> I received my Gungnir+Mjolnir stack last week.


 
   
Looks like you're using Foobar in a setup that is very similar to mine. Out of curiosity, can you take a peek at my post and see if you get the same crackles and/or pops:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/603219/schiit-gungnir-dac/1350#post_10439947
  
Despite being unable to reproduce my problem when using different devices, I was able to eventually reproduce the problem in WASAPI and ASIO modes. However, it only happened in Foobar. I tried MusicBee and I can't reproduce the problem. While I definitely prefer Foobar to MusicBee at this point and I couldn't get the problem to occur with any other USB output device, I can't really fault Schiit if I can find a music player that does work properly. Now it's just a matter of whether I think the Gungdir is worth the $850+.

  
 I'm updating my original post now.


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## StefanJK

beyermonster said:


> Looks like you're using Foobar in a setup that is very similar to mine. Out of curiosity, can you take a peek at my post and see if you get the same crackles and/or pops.


 
 I did have some crackling when I started up Chrome with my 70+ tabs loading at once, even some drop outs, and occassional crackling at other times too.  After some snooping around, installing new WLAN drivers etc., I ended up with the suggested first simple solution, switching USB ports (from an Intel USB bus to an ASmedia USB bus).  That took care of most of it.  Not 100%, but nothing serious is left besides minor crackling during Chrome startup.  I only start up Chrome once per session.  I'll probably mess around more with it in the future, but for now I'll just listen to what I have -- I'm not investing hours into fixing this until I feel like it.  My machine is overclocked and has 14 HDDs on it, including 4 external HDDs on USB ports, so some issues are to be expected and there are more fixes to try.  For instance, just unplug the external HDDs?  NDIS 6.2 seems the main culprit, but knowing that hasn't lead to any 100% solutions yet.  
  
 Update: messing around with the latency setting in Foobar2000 (not the C-Media Asio driver settings) got rid of the remaining noise.


----------



## BeyerMonster

stefanjk said:


> I did have some crackling when I started up Chrome with my 70+ tabs loading at once, even some drop outs, and occassional crackling at other times too.  After some snooping around, installing new WLAN drivers etc., I ended up with the suggested first simple solution, switching USB ports (from an Intel USB bus to an ASmedia USB bus).  That took care of most of it.  Not 100%, but nothing serious is left besides minor crackling during Chrome startup.  I only start up Chrome once per session.  I'll probably mess around more with it in the future, but for now I'll just listen to what I have -- I'm not investing hours into fixing this until I feel like it.  My machine is overclocked and has 14 HDDs on it, including 4 external HDDs on USB ports, so some issues are to be expected and there are more fixes to try.  For instance, just unplug the external HDDs?  NDIS 6.2 seems the main culprit, but knowing that hasn't lead to any 100% solutions yet.


 
 Glad the port swap worked out for you. There's no way I would be willing to live with continued crackling every time I pressed play or picked a new track. I'd rather just go back to lugging CDs around.


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## dailydoseofdaly

beyermonster said:


> Glad the port swap worked out for you. There's no way I would be willing to live with continued crackling every time I pressed play or picked a new track. I'd rather just go back to lugging CDs around.


 
 I have a 98 toshiba player that works almost perfect with the gung,i could make you a killer deal


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## brokenthumb

Received the Gungnir today!  The first word that popped in my head when I heard it was smooth.  It's so detailed without a hint of harshness, I may have just retired my turntable.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 I'm only using rca cables to the Mjolnir right now because the PYST XLR cables should arrive Friday or Saturday.  I'm using coaxial from my PC.


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## brokenthumb

Picked up the PYST XLR cables today.  Wow, the Gungnir is amazing running balanced... best sound I've heard yet!  This has to be the smoothest most detailed sound, I don't know how they did it but I like it.
 The bass is so deep and extended, yet it's controlled so well.  The clarity is amazing, it's like someone took a layer of film off my whole music collection.  Another awesome thing is it makes my poorly recorded material sound amazing without any hint of harshness.  I can't seem to pull myself away from this setup it's so addictive!


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## commtrd

The schiit stack gung/mjo are a really nice combo especially for the money spent. Pair them with a really good headphone and the result can be a re-awakening to the recorded music you have. We are fortunate to have access to good quality electronics that are also affordable (not everyone operates with a stax budget LOL). I know there is better out there but I darn sure know this is some good quality stuff too and at the end of the day do you love what you're hearing or not?


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## dailydoseofdaly

brokenthumb said:


> Picked up the PYST XLR cables today.  Wow, the Gungnir is amazing running balanced... best sound I've heard yet!  This has to be the smoothest most detailed sound, I don't know how they did it but I like it.
> The bass is so deep and extended, yet it's controlled so well.  The clarity is amazing, it's like someone took a layer of film off my whole music collection.  Another awesome thing is it makes my poorly recorded material sound amazing without any hint of harshness.  I can't seem to pull myself away from this setup it's so addictive!




I agree with what your hearing, I've had mine over a year now and grow more and more impressed with it. The only reason I would considering changing it is out curiosity of the statement dac but even then I don't see how they can extract much more detail.


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## TK277

dailydoseofdaly said:


> I agree with what your hearing, I've had mine over a year now and grow more and more impressed with it. The only reason I would considering changing it is out curiosity of the statement dac but even then I don't see how they can extract much more detail.


 
 Exactly how I feel. I've had the Gungnir for about 8 months and honestly I don't know how it could be improved upon enough to justify replacing it. From my ES5 CIEMs to my newly acquired LCD-3, I don't know how much the Gungnir could be improved upon.
  
 I'm curious how the reviews on the statement DAC will compare.


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## Mr.Sneis

The Gungnir is a fine DAC but you guys need to stretch out your DAC legs a bit more!  Detail retrieval is OK but can be much better in other DACs.


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## earwaxxer

mr.sneis said:


> The Gungnir is a fine DAC but you guys need to stretch out your DAC legs a bit more!  Detail retrieval is OK but can be much better in other DACs.


 

 I agree... Be curious if anyone else here has the iDSD as well as the Gungnir, and what their impressions of each of them are...


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## tin

i agree people need to look at other DACs, so does anyone have one with gen2 they want to sell me ?


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## TooPoor

Honest question: Why should I buy the Gungnir over the Emotiva DC-1? B Stock DC-1 are at $400 shipped from Emotiva. I have a USB to SPDIF convertor so I don't _need _the USB version of the Gungnir, but that's still a few hundred more than the Emotiva. I'd be pairing it with a La Figaro 339 and HE-500...


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## Erukian

toopoor said:


> Honest question: Why should I buy the Gungnir over the Emotiva DC-1? B Stock DC-1 are at $400 shipped from Emotiva. I have a USB to SPDIF convertor so I don't _need _the USB version of the Gungnir, but that's still a few hundred more than the Emotiva. I'd be pairing it with a La Figaro 339 and HE-500...


 
 That's a good question, I hope someone who understands some of the technicalities between these two DAC's can jump in.


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## Barry S

toopoor said:


> Honest question: Why should I buy the Gungnir over the Emotiva DC-1? B Stock DC-1 are at $400 shipped from Emotiva. I have a USB to SPDIF convertor so I don't _need _the USB version of the Gungnir, but that's still a few hundred more than the Emotiva. I'd be pairing it with a La Figaro 339 and HE-500...


 

 I've compared the Gungnir with the DC-1 and they're both excellent DACs. If Emotiva has B-stock DC-1's for $400--that's a great deal. The Gungnir has a nicer chassis, and both the DAC and USB boards are upgradeable. The DC-1 can be used as a preamp and also has an amp (albeit crappy) built in.


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## TooPoor

One more question! How is the Gen2 USB implementation on the Gungnir compared to my MF VLink 192? Or should I just go with the non-USB version and coax to the Gungnir via the VLink? Is it a $100 different?


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## paradoxper

That is actually the key. Haven't heard the DC-1, but I've heard the prior XDA line and I'd take Bifrost over 'em. Never been a fan of converters and the Gen 2 USB has stepped up the performance.
 So to me, Gun seems like the clear choice.


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## boatheelmusic

Then you may want to listen to the DC1.


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## paradoxper

boatheelmusic said:


> Then you may want to listen to the DC1.


 
 I personally have no interest in the Emotiva DAcs. Plus, comparatively I simply like the AKM sound.


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## fishski13

toopoor said:


> One more question! How is the Gen2 USB implementation on the Gungnir compared to my MF VLink 192? Or should I just go with the non-USB version and coax to the Gungnir via the VLink? Is it a $100 different?




I would recommend getting the USB version. Its also board swappable down the road if Schitt decides to make upgrades.

Not apples to apples, but I preferred the Gungnir's USB to the original V-Link into the Gung. The MF reduced dynamics and resolution.


----------



## huberd

Has anyone tried the IFI USB power supply with the Gungnir? Does is make a positive difference? I am worred that the Shiit USB board is powered by my computer instead of using the power supply of the Gungnir.
  
 Everyone knows a computer power supply is very dirty. Not sure why they would have designed it that way. Are most USB boards in DAC's powered by the computer? I found this out by another post I read. I then turned the unit off then plugged in the USB cable. It would detect and load the driver even though the unit was off.


----------



## Defiant00

huberd said:


> Has anyone tried the IFI USB power supply with the Gungnir? Does is make a positive difference? I am worred that the Shiit USB board is powered by my computer instead of using the power supply of the Gungnir.
> 
> Everyone knows a computer power supply is very dirty. Not sure why they would have designed it that way. Are most USB boards in DAC's powered by the computer? I found this out by another post I read. I then turned the unit off then plugged in the USB cable. It would detect and load the driver even though the unit was off.


 
  
 Since only the USB portion of Gungnir is powered by USB (digital to digital, before feeding it to the DAC), it likely doesn't matter much/at all how clean the USB power is. It's not like they're running the gain stage off of USB power.


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## earwaxxer

I hate to say it, but I have the Gungnir with the gen 2 USB and the iFi iDSD, and the iDSD sounds MUCH better. I kick myself for it in some ways, but I have subbed the Gungnir in and out several times, and the iDSD is just MUCH more natural. The Gungnir sits in a corner. I refuse to sell it because I like to put it back in every so often just to convince myself that I'm not hallucinating!


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## rnadell

earwaxxer said:


> I hate to say it, but I have the Gungnir with the gen 2 USB and the iFi iDSD, and the iDSD sounds MUCH better. I kick myself for it in some ways, but I have subbed the Gungnir in and out several times, and the iDSD is just MUCH more natural. The Gungnir sits in a corner. I refuse to sell it because I like to put it back in every so often just to convince myself that I'm not hallucinating!


 

 So, can you use it as a dac only?


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## earwaxxer

rnadell said:


> So, can you use it as a dac only?


 

 Not sure what you mean?


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## rnadell

earwaxxer said:


> Not sure what you mean?


 

 I thought it included an amp as well.


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## earwaxxer

rnadell said:


> I thought it included an amp as well.


 

 Nope - its just the DAC..


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## listen4joy

how gungnir compares to auralic vega anyone know?


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## Mr.Sneis

Not really that useful of a comment for comparisons but if I were in the market for an Aurilic Vega why would I be looking at the Gungnir??


----------



## paradoxper

Because around that sub $2-3k bracket there just really isn't all that much that offers the performance that beats Gun.
 The real question should be why isn't he considering Yggdrasil.


----------



## BeyerMonster

paradoxper said:


> The real question should be why isn't he considering Yggdrasil.


 
 At this point, it's just vaporware. I've been trying to follow Yggdrasil, but I don't believe there has been a single sighting of even a non-functional "fake"(non-working branded enclosure), yet.


----------



## kothganesh

toopoor said:


> One more question! How is the Gen2 USB implementation on the Gungnir .........


 
 Don't know about the VLink but in my experience, I used the BNC Halide USB-SPDIF converter. I switched to the USB and never looked back. Better detail retrieval, more extended top and bottom end. Heck even the BIfrost Uber with USB that I have in the office seems to be better direct than using these sort of converters, in my experience.


----------



## rodomo

listen4joy said:


> how gungnir compares to auralic vega anyone know?


 
 Gungnir is not on the same level of vega, I tried both at a friend, vega is definitley the winner without any doubt.


----------



## Neuromance

futurecity said:


> Thanks.  I'm considering that xlr passive pre over the mjolnir, given the latter may color the sound.
> 
> Any recommendations for decent XLR interconnects that would offer an improvement over monoprice?  I'm looking at spending no more than aprox. $200 on XLR pairs. Something on the neutral/musical side given i have active studio monitors.  i dont want to make the system sound brighter than it is.
> 
> I'm planning on buying the audioquest coffee or the mapleshade clear plus for my USB cable.


 
  
 This is a tad late, but I use Mogami XLR cables with.  I haven't A/Bd with other cables (given they're so affordable), but they've gotten good reviews here and on Agon.  Can get them at any pro audio site (I bought from Markertek for $60 for a pair (6 ft) including shipping).


----------



## blitzxgene

neuromance said:


> This is a tad late, but I use Mogami XLR cables with.  I haven't A/Bd with other cables (given they're so affordable), but they've gotten good reviews here and on Agon.  Can get them at any pro audio site (I bought from Markertek for $60 for a pair (6 ft) including shipping).


 
 http://www.redco.com/Custom-Cable.html?cableid=QW8A2w
  
 I've made my own from here for real cheap, but i'm in the middle of upgradis.


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## Nuttinbutair

earwaxxer,
  
 I am curious to hear a little more about the iDSD to Gungnir comparison.  Does the iDSD provide better, clarity, imaging, tonal balance, frequency extension,..?  Is the comparison for PCM or DSD music?  Any further impressions are welcome.
  
 Thanks


----------



## earwaxxer

nuttinbutair said:


> earwaxxer,
> 
> I am curious to hear a little more about the iDSD to Gungnir comparison.  Does the iDSD provide better, clarity, imaging, tonal balance, frequency extension,..?  Is the comparison for PCM or DSD music?  Any further impressions are welcome.
> 
> Thanks


 
 Well, with my system, the iDSD is much more precise than the Gungnir, but not in the way of being harsh and thin like some precise DAC's can be.
  
 I wouldnt go as far as to say that the iDSD is tube like, but it is certainly more tube like than the Gungnir, to the extent that the notes and instruments are better fleshed out, with no real emphasis on any certain part of the note and timber. More 'real' is how I would put it. IMO the Gungnir is just a bit messy in trying to be more 'analog'. It doesnt do it for me.
  
 Like I said before, it wasnt the iDSD that kind of woke me up to what the Gungir sound was like. I think we all try to make up for limitations in a particular piece of kit by adding tubes in the pre-amp etc, when we should just go with a different piece of kit from the get go. - Again - its my opinion with my gear. Personally, I have not kept my Gungnir in the DAC position for long since I have had other alternatives to it, especially the iDSD. For those with no good alternatives I can understand how others would 'like' the Gungnir. I'm not knocking them, its just that we have choices.


----------



## earwaxxer

As far as the question about PCM vs. DSD and the iDSD, I dont have any native DSD recording, but from my experimentation with upsampling PCM to DSD etc., I 'like' the way DSD sounds with the iDSD, but PCM done 'right' sounds just as good IMO. I would get the iDSD for either PCM or DSD, but I wouldnt get it only because it does DSD. Its a better DAC than that IMO.


----------



## BeyerMonster

> Originally Posted by *Neuromance* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> This is a tad late, but I use Mogami XLR cables with.  I haven't A/Bd with other cables (given they're so affordable), but they've gotten good reviews here and on Agon.  Can get them at any pro audio site (I bought from Markertek for $60 for a pair (6 ft) including shipping).


 
 I went this route via proaudiola and it took about a week, but I've been very happy with the end result so far.
  
 Gear Slutz (forum for recording studioes/engineers/enthusiasts? seemed to have a lot of positive comments on proaudiola, redco, and 1 or 2 others. Proaudiola seemed to be  ahair cheaper, so I decided to just go for it.
  
 I don't know if the raw materials from Belden/Canare are more expensive than say Mogami, but pricing on custom cables from Blue Jeans Cables was not competitive when I priced them out.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Raw materials alone are not that cheap... Figure $4 per connector plus wiring per foot plus shipping and your time.... It costs me around $30-35 to diy a pair of IC balanced or single ended pretty much same cost.


----------



## BeyerMonster

mr.sneis said:


> Raw materials alone are not that cheap... Figure $4 per connector plus wiring per foot plus shipping and your time.... It costs me around $30-35 to diy a pair of IC balanced or single ended pretty much same cost.


 
 Sounds like I made the right call then. While I'm relatively handy with a soldering iron, I'm not that fast and I value my time.  I think Proaudiola and Redco sell the raw materials if you do end up wanting to DIY.
  
 After S/H, it was ~$40 for my balanced cables and ~$30 for single-ended through proaudiola. IIRC, Redco was about 5-10% more expensive. BJC pricing was roughly 1.5x-2.5x. Monoprice was way cheaper than both, but I read a large number of reviews where people were unhappy with the XLR plugs on the Monoprice. Things like tolerance being off by enough that they had a hard time plugging/unplugging the cables. In the end, that was enough for me to pay a bit more for "name brand" wire w/ Neutrik connectors.
  
 FWIW, I have bought products from proaudiola and BJC in the past, but have no commercial interest in either. Just trying to pass on what I learned from pricing it out.


----------



## Nuttinbutair

earwaxxer said:


> As far as the question about PCM vs. DSD and the iDSD, I dont have any native DSD recording, but from my experimentation with upsampling PCM to DSD etc., I 'like' the way DSD sounds with the iDSD, but PCM done 'right' sounds just as good IMO. I would get the iDSD for either PCM or DSD, but I wouldnt get it only because it does DSD. Its a better DAC than that IMO.


 
  
 Thanks for the feedback.  Now I am contemplating what to sell to make room, and try one for myself ...


----------



## KLJTech

Is it fine to stack either the Lyr or the Asgard 2 on top of the Gungnir? I could shift the amp to the top left side of the Gungnir to leave some of the vents uncovered. 
 Thanks!


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Yep, definitely. I've run my Lyr on top of the Gungnir and now a Mjolnir.
  
 The Gungnir doesn't actually have any vents on top -- what looks like venting is just a cosmetic detail. Venting would prevent it from being FCC compliant.
  
 Cheers


----------



## KLJTech

Well there ya go...it won't matter then. I've never seen the Gungnir in person, but that makes sense. I'll have one at some point next week...if you're running a powerful tower PC should there be any issue via its USB with the "buy better gear" light? Haven't had any issues with asynchronous DAC's running USB thus far.
  
 Hopefully, it'll work just fine (direct/bit perfect) with JRiver Media version 19.


----------



## TK277

I run the Mjolnir on top of my Gungnir too. Like Indie said, there aren't any vents on top of the Schiit DAC.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

I'd be very surprised if your PC turns on the buy better gear light. From what I gather, it is actually pretty rare to have equipment that lights it. I've heard an Airport Express via optical is one way but haven't tried it.


----------



## chalkdust

Hi all!

 Great discussions over at this forum so i decided to join to ask a question.
  
 I recently bought the Schiit Gungnir to replace an ODAC (which i thought was very good).  My initial impressions of the Gungnir was that it made everything sound 'brighter' and snappier but removed or hid some of the bass.  So much so that i thought maybe something was wrong but i guess i'm getting used to it.  
  
 I ran into an issue and first contacted support about it but i wanted to run it by the group to see if anyone else has had this issue before i send it back for a swap or refund.
  
 I have a Mac Mini running OS X 10.9 (Mavericks) connected via USB to the Gungnir with output to a Onkyo A-9555 integrated Amp.  Everything worked fine out of the box with this connection and i was enjoying music straight away.  I left the amp with the volume low and the Gungnir on over night with music playing to give it some 'burn in' and get it warmed up.  When i came from from work later that day i turned the volume on the amp up to listen and all i heard was a loud BUZZZZ sound coming out of the speakers.  I checked the computer and paused the music but the buzzing continued.  i cycled inputs and the buzzing continued.  i unplugged the USB and plugged it back in and the buzzing continued.  I then shut the Gungnir off and turned it back on and it was back to normal playing music.  This happened the next day as well but with the amp OFF all night and no music playing.
  
 I contacted support and they informed me of some sort of "Power Management" issue with Mavericks. As found on http://schiit.com/faq/dac-problems  i googled the issue they outline and couldn't really find any documentation of it other than their own references.  It MAY be related to "app nap" feature but my computer is 'always on' with no power down or sleep mode allowed.
  
 So i bought a powered USB 2.0 Hub and connected the Gungnir to it and everythign seemed to be working for a few days, however today i get home from work and turn on my amp and press play, i hear some music very low but i also hear that loud buzzing.  I had to turn the Gungnir off and on again to restore function.
  
 Anyone else have or seen this issue?  Is my unit faulty and should i get a replacement or should i just get a refund?


----------



## paradoxper

chalkdust said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Great discussions over at this forum so i decided to join to ask a question.
> 
> ...


 
 App nap is program by program basis. You could check to see if, say, Itunes has App Nap enabled. (So locate Itunes app and click get info and it should be under general.)
  
 I will say, for my playback rig I don't use Mavericks, but 
 It's just been one buggy system no matter what kind of machine I've put it on.


----------



## earwaxxer

chalkdust said:


> Anyone else have or seen this issue?  Is my unit faulty and should i get a replacement or should i just get a refund?


 
 Well, If you are within the return/get your money back time frame, I would do that. From my experience, Schiit is not real good about honoring the warranty. I sent my broken Gungnir back and also had them add the gen 2 USB to it. They added the gen 2 USB but didnt fix the problems, and they were not forthcoming about it at all. I even asked them in an email what was wrong with it, and I got a reply that the technician would get back to me on it. Never heard from him, just got the piece in the mail - still broken (Coaxial and BNC inputs would not work), with the new gen 2 USB. No charge was requested, but I would rather have a fully functioning piece.


----------



## chalkdust

Thanks for the input.  I forgot to mention, i did disable app nap for itunes but it seemed not to help.  
  
 I think i will do a replacement swap and give a new one a try.  They said i would have 15 days to audition that one so i can make sure it works right before i have to decide.
  
 I have had no other issues at all with Mavericks.  My ODAC (USB powered) worked flawlessly at all times.  
  
 I have had no issues with tech support or customer service so far so i cant comment on that.  They have been very helpful and quick to respond to me.


----------



## paradoxper

chalkdust said:


> Thanks for the input.  I forgot to mention, i did disable app nap for itunes but it seemed not to help.
> 
> I think i will do a replacement swap and give a new one a try.  They said i would have 15 days to audition that one so i can make sure it works right before i have to decide.
> 
> ...


 
 It could be a faulty unit. With the quantity Schiit moves, it happens. I've had nothing but stellar experiences with Schiit. But some people are whiny little -------.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

earwaxxer said:


> Well, If you are within the return/get your money back time frame, I would do that. From my experience, Schiit is not real good about honoring the warranty. I sent my broken Gungnir back and also had them add the gen 2 USB to it. They added the gen 2 USB but didnt fix the problems, and they were not forthcoming about it at all. I even asked them in an email what was wrong with it, and I got a reply that the technician would get back to me on it. Never heard from him, just got the piece in the mail - still broken (Coaxial and BNC inputs would not work), with the new gen 2 USB. No charge was requested, but I would rather have a fully functioning piece.


 
  
 If we didn't fix the problems, you should have contacted us--we would have fixed it under warranty, of course. However, everything is tested twice--by two different techs, using instruments and ears, before it goes out from repair, so it was certainly working when it left the building.
  
 Did you contact us, say it wasn't fixed, and request us to fix it again?


----------



## Mr.Sneis

chalkdust said:


> I recently bought the Schiit Gungnir to replace an ODAC (which i thought was very good).  My initial impressions of the Gungnir was that it made everything sound 'brighter' and snappier but removed or hid some of the bass.  So much so that i thought maybe something was wrong but i guess i'm getting used to it.
> 
> .....
> 
> ...


 
  
 To the first bit, I didn't dislike the Gungnir but I too found it a bit of a pushy and up-front listening experience; one could say very engaging and energetic I suppose. I also found that when it came to subtle details of the DAC it had a tendency to smooth over some of the nuances I was used to hearing when compared to other DACs.  Like I said I did find it a great listen in the grand scheme of things as it was still quite musical and dynamic when called for, but in many regards was quite distracting due to the pushy tendency which was something I have not run in to in my history.  I've actually been contemplating giving the Gungnir another try as I have been on the hunt for a solid performing - lower priced DAC.
  
 About OSX Mavericks, I really regretted making the jump to the latest OS.  Have had new issues arise with my playback software and odd glitches with my USB/SPDIF adapters that I never had prior.  I would believe it if Schiit is saying it may have something to do with the OS itself and possibly needing a new driver.  Look at it this way, m2tech has only very recently provided a working Mavericks driver for their interface... this affected not only their few products but the many 3rd party manufacturers who use their usb interface in their dacs.  Luckily we have some smart guys and supportive 3rd parties who have figured out a few workarounds way before m2tech did but for them to take what 6 months+ to release something?  Crazy!
  
 I'd say stick with the Schiit, they have proven to many others they have great customer service when it's needed.


----------



## paradoxper

Really excellent point about m2tech, Mavericks is really a POS.


----------



## BeyerMonster

chalkdust said:


> When i came from from work later that day i turned the volume on the amp up to listen and all i heard was a loud BUZZZZ sound coming out of the speakers.  I checked the computer and paused the music but the buzzing continued.  i cycled inputs and the buzzing continued.  i unplugged the USB and plugged it back in and the buzzing continued.  I then shut the Gungnir off and turned it back on and it was back to normal playing music.  This happened the next day as well but with the amp OFF all night and no music playing.


 
 Happened once with my Modi, but didn't happen to my Gungnir during my trial period. Both were hooked up to Windows PCs, my best guess is that it had something to do with static electricity.
  
 Might not be helpful, but thought I'd mention it, just in case.


----------



## KLJTech

My Gungnir will be arriving later today, does it have 3 or 4 feet on the bottom (the pic in Audio Advisor makes it appear that there are 3) and are they screwed on or stuck on? I'd like to use a new pack of Sorbothane Hemisphere feet that I bought IF its easy to remove the stock feet. I don't know that the Sorbothane feet will improve the sound at all, but I have seen them work in other applications in my home to know that they do help minimize vibration and I have a Velodyne DD-10 in the room that the Gungnir will be used. 
  
 How much burn in time is required (ballpark) for the Gungnir to sound its best? I've seen anywhere from 100 to 200 hours. 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Neuromance

My unit has 3 feet (2 in the front, one in the back) that are screwed on. I haven't tried removing them, so no claims as to ease or difficulty.
  
 I didn't do a scientific evaluation, but i would agree with the timeframe in terms of ease and liquidity. Right off the bat though you already get the bass and dynamics that the DAC is known for.  


kljtech said:


> My Gungnir will be arriving later today, does it have 3 or 4 feet on the bottom (the pic in Audio Advisor makes it appear that there are 3) and are they screwed on or stuck on? I'd like to use a new pack of Sorbothane Hemisphere feet that I bought IF its easy to remove the stock feet. I don't know that the Sorbothane feet will improve the sound at all, but I have seen them work in other applications in my home to know that they do help minimize vibration and I have a Velodyne DD-10 in the room that the Gungnir will be used.
> 
> How much burn in time is required (ballpark) for the Gungnir to sound its best? I've seen anywhere from 100 to 200 hours.
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## Barry S

kljtech said:


> ...
> How much burn in time is required (ballpark) for the Gungnir to sound its best? I've seen anywhere from 100 to 200 hours...


 
  
 I'd estimate roughly, 100 to 200......milliseconds.


----------



## madwolfa

tk277 said:


> Ever try Blue Jeans Cable? I have no experience with XLRs since my system isn't balanced, but they made me a beauty of a RCA to 3.5mm that I use to connect my Gungnir to my Pico Slim (seems odd maybe, but my headphone of choice is actually a pair of IEMs).


 
 I've got a pair of balanced XLR interconnects from BJC. They're great! Highly recommended.


----------



## earwaxxer

jason stoddard said:


> If we didn't fix the problems, you should have contacted us--we would have fixed it under warranty, of course. However, everything is tested twice--by two different techs, using instruments and ears, before it goes out from repair, so it was certainly working when it left the building.
> 
> Did you contact us, say it wasn't fixed, and request us to fix it again?


 

 The reason I let it go was that I was not impressed with the sound of the gen2 USB input compared to some of my other DACs, so I decided to move on to one of my other DAC's. I cant tell you why it got sent out not fixed, but the gen2 USB input does sound better than the SPDIF inputs, so I wasnt too motivated to go the extra yard to get the SPDIF inputs fixed.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

earwaxxer said:


> The reason I let it go was that I was not impressed with the sound of the gen2 USB input, so I decided to move on to one of my other DAC's. I cant tell you why it got sent out not fixed, but the gen2 USB sounds better than th


 
 If you don't let us know there's a problem, it's impossible for us to fix it. I'd contact tech@schiit.com or alex@schiit.com to get it brought back and fixed.


----------



## rwelles

jason stoddard said:


> If you don't let us know there's a problem, it's impossible for us to fix it. I'd contact tech@schiit.com or alex@schiit.com to get it brought back and fixed.


 
 Guessing you meant "possible", not "impossible". You were very diligent in fixing my Gungnir when it was misbehaving!!


----------



## KLJTech

barry s said:


> I'd estimate roughly, 100 to 200......milliseconds.


 
  
 Who has that kind of time on their hands? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 I like how they used 3 feet to support the DAC...saves them money and makes the Gungnir sit firmly balanced on my desk/bench.


----------



## KLJTech

I see in the new HomeTheaterHiFi review of the Birost Uber and Asgard 2 that the reviewer uses J.River MC (as do I in my office system) yet he has the bit depth "padded to 24 bits" and "sampling rate set to 176.4 kHz or 192 kHz"
  
 Anyone else using J.River with the Gungnir?
  
_I'm setting my new Gungnir up this weekend_ and I've always set the J.River's Bitdepth to "Automatic" and the Sample Rate to "No Change" and this gives me an Audio Pathirect (which is what I thought we were shooting for).
  
 Anyone using J.River or another player to upsample the feed to the Gungnir? I thought the whole point was to bypass as much of the computer's OS and/or software as possible. Obviously the main objective is to enjoy your music and if upsampling via software helps that's fantastic. Now I'm very curious if others are upsampling the signal to their Schiit Audio DAC's.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

kljtech said:


> I see in the new HomeTheaterHiFi review of the Birost Uber and Asgard 2 that the reviewer uses J.River MC (as do I in my office system) yet he has the bit depth "padded to 24 bits" and "sampling rate set to 176.4 kHz or 192 kHz"
> 
> Anyone else using J.River with the Gungnir?
> 
> ...




+1


----------



## commtrd

earwaxxer said:


> chalkdust said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone else have or seen this issue?  Is my unit faulty and should i get a replacement or should i just get a refund?
> ...




My Mjolnir amp died a year after I owned it so sent back for repair plus the USB upgrade. Got them back and even though there was a note in the box that said they found nothing wrong, it is now sounding fine. USB upgrade helped. Have never compared any other dacs though so I can't comment on if it's better or worse than anything else.


----------



## Sonic Defender

kljtech said:


> I see in the new HomeTheaterHiFi review of the Birost Uber and Asgard 2 that the reviewer uses J.River MC (as do I in my office system) yet he has the bit depth "padded to 24 bits" and "sampling rate set to 176.4 kHz or 192 kHz"
> 
> Anyone else using J.River with the Gungnir?
> 
> ...


 

  I use JRiver 18 with a Gungnir and like you I want nothing done to the signal. I leave the bitdepth alone as I haven't heard any reason to not do so. Love the Gungnir. I was very tempted by the new Oppo as I needed a headphone amp, but the Gungnir is just so pleasing to me that I just ordered a Schiit Asgard 2 and I'm good.


----------



## commtrd

Using J River 19 with Mj/G and leaving bit rate set to automatic. I did get the USB upgrade done on Gungnir and all is well. I suppose I could play with that some but always busy with price bar studies and market analysis so long as it sounds good I don't fool around with it. Guess that indicates I am not a true hi-fi-er. ;0)


----------



## KLJTech

sonic defender said:


> I use JRiver 18 with a Gungnir and like you I want nothing done to the signal. I leave the bitdepth alone as I haven't heard any reason to not do so. Love the Gungnir. I was very tempted by the new Oppo as I needed a headphone amp, but the Gungnir is just so pleasing to me that I just ordered a Schiit Asgard 2 and I'm good.


 
  
 You're going to enjoy the Asgard 2, that's what I'll be using with the new Gungnir but I've had the Asgard 2 for a couple months and I absolutely love it.


----------



## Sonic Defender

kljtech said:


> You're going to enjoy the Asgard 2, that's what I'll be using with the new Gungnir but I've had the Asgard 2 for a couple months and I absolutely love it.


 
  
 Good to hear, and I can assure you that the Gungnir will knock your socks off. I had an Audiolab 8200CD with the vaunted Sabre DAC chip which I sold to fund my Gungnir. No regrets at all. The Audiolab was quite nice, but the Gungnir is in my view quite a bit more capable and refined. Just now listening to Adham Shaiki - Peace to the Middle East, very sweet.


----------



## KLJTech

I've been listening to the Gungnir for the past couple hours through speakers (B&W 805's) and the past hour or so with the Asgard 2 driving the HE-500's and B&W P7's and it sounds incredible.
  
 I've been listening to "Arne Domnerus - Jazz At The Pawnshop 24.88" (Love this album) and while I've always heard things being moved on tables in the background now its almost stunning how much detail is coming through perfectly clear. It would simply be a neat trick if one only noticed more small goings on in the background, but there's more presence to instruments...thus far it sounds more convincingly real than my other DAC's. So far I'm impressed. 
  
 I've got my Asgard 2 sitting atop the left side of the Gungnir...I guess this way the transformers of both pieces are on the same side (both power cables on one side), but I actually chose that side due to my cables between the Gungnir and A2 being a tad too stiff to make the sharper bend to place the A2 on the right side. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I've got to say that I've yet to regret (far from it) any purchase from Schiit Audio...they're quickly becoming my favorite brand of audiophile/music lover gear. Now, as far as speakers go I don't think they're going to catch my two favorites in that category...B&W and Magnepan.


----------



## JoelT

kljtech said:


> I've been listening to the Gungnir for the past couple hours through speakers (B&W 805's) and the past hour or so with the Asgard 2 driving the HE-500's and B&W P7's and it sounds incredible.


 
 Cool! Thanks for the early impressions/thoughts. Do you feel the treble is too present at first listen? There seems to be quite a few comments regarding burn-in. My Gungnir is supposed to arrive on Monday, and I'm definitely stoked to hear it.


----------



## KLJTech

To me it doesn't sound like too much treble through speakers or headphones. I generally listen at first (to see if anything is majorly wrong) and then let some music play through a new piece of gear for a few days before truly giving it my full attention. This way I won't simply get accustomed to its sound during this time.
  
 I too have heard many say that it can take several days for the Gungnir to reach its full potential...I don't know, this is my first Gungnir but thus far I'm very impressed. That Asgard 2 is getting pretty warm/hot to the touch along the sides, I know many others stack this gear so I have to assume that I can't harm either piece by doing this. Sure is a sweet sounding combination.
  
 I think you're going to love the Gungnir!
 Best of luck.


----------



## JoelT

kljtech said:


> To me it doesn't sound like too much treble through speakers or headphones. I generally listen at first (to see if anything is majorly wrong) and then let some music play through a new piece of gear for a few days before truly giving it my full attention. This way I won't simply get accustomed to its sound during this time.
> 
> I too have heard many say that it can take several days for the Gungnir to reach its full potential...I don't know, this is my first Gungnir but thus far I'm very impressed. That Asgard 2 is getting pretty warm/hot to the touch along the sides, I know many others stack this gear so I have to assume that I can't harm either piece by doing this. Sure is a sweet sounding combination.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks. Yeah, that makes sense. I plan on doing the same - i.e. listen to it a bit when I get it, to ensure sure it's not completely "off" and then let it run for burn-in. 
  
 What other DAC's do you own? I've only used considerably cheaper DAC's, so I suspect it will sound pretty stellar to my ears. Enjoy!


----------



## Sonic Defender

I am going to stand my Asgard up on an end like a reviewer at 6 Moons did to maximize how much heat is dissipated. I would think stacking class A gear ontop of one another a great deal of heat for the units to contend with.


----------



## madwolfa

sonic defender said:


> I am going to stand my Asgard up on an end like a reviewer at 6 Moons did to maximize how much heat is dissipated. I would think stacking class A gear ontop of one another a great deal of heat for the units to contend with.


 
  
 I think there's no issue in stacking Asgard 2 on top of a DAC like Bifrost or Gungnir.


----------



## KLJTech

joelt said:


> Thanks. Yeah, that makes sense. I plan on doing the same - i.e. listen to it a bit when I get it, to ensure sure it's not completely "off" and then let it run for burn-in.
> 
> What other DAC's do you own? I've only used considerably cheaper DAC's, so I suspect it will sound pretty stellar to my ears. Enjoy!


 
  
 The DAC's I'm mainly comparing it to is the Bryston BDA-1 and Benchmark DAC 1 USB, both pretty nice DAC's in my opinion. I was very interested in the newer Bryston BDA-2 but its more than I'd like to spend right now and there appear to be some similarities between it and the Gungnir. I certainly have a great deal of  respect for Mike Moffat and Jason Stoddard...Mr. Moffat was the man behind those great Theta DAC's that I wanted but couldn't afford at the time. 
  
 I like the Benchmark DAC1 USB a lot too yet I prefer the sound of Schiit's headphone amps to the one built into the DAC1. There's a lot of very nice sounding digital/audio gear out there now, but I don't know that anyone is offering as much for the money as Schiit.


----------



## Sonic Defender

madwolfa said:


> I think there's no issue in stacking Asgard 2 on top of a DAC like Bifrost or Gungnir.


 
  
 Perhaps, but at least for me no need to take a chance so I'll avoid the heat sandwich.


----------



## KLJTech

Those of you that are using the Gungnir with JRiver MC (I'm using 19.0.128), in the Control Panel of JRiver are you using "Schiit Audio Device WASAPI" or some other setting? 
 This is what was selected automatically after I installed the Windows 7 USB drivers from Schiit. (using Windows 7 x64)
  
 Thanks in advance for any input you may be able to provide.


----------



## madwolfa

kljtech said:


> Those of you that are using the Gungnir with JRiver MC (I'm using 19.0.128), in the Control Panel of JRiver are you using "Schiit Audio Device WASAPI" or some other setting?


 
  
 I have no experience with JRiver, but it sounds right. Unless you wanna use ASIO or something.


----------



## JoelT

kljtech said:


> Those of you that are using the Gungnir with JRiver MC (I'm using 19.0.128), in the Control Panel of JRiver are you using "Schiit Audio Device WASAPI" or some other setting?
> This is what was selected automatically after I installed the Windows 7 USB drivers from Schiit. (using Windows 7 x64)
> 
> Thanks in advance for any input you may be able to provide.


 
 Yeah, WASAPI is what you want (rather than direct sound): http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WASAPI
  
 Giving my Gungnir a first listen right now (using "Schiit Audio Device WASAPI" as well)..._really _impressive!


----------



## KLJTech

joelt said:


> Yeah, WASAPI is what you want (rather than direct sound): http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WASAPI
> 
> Giving my Gungnir a first listen right now (using "Schiit Audio Device WASAPI" as well)..._really _impressive!


 
  
 When I installed The Gungnir's USB driver WASAPI was automatically selected by JRiver _but I wasn't sure if most users prefer to use ASIO or not_.
  
 I've always used WASAPI (in JRiver MC 19) with my other USB DAC's yet I thought I had read somewhere that the Bifrost and Gungnir are meant to be used with its ASIO driver. I could my be mistaken...it wasn't on this forum.
  
 I listened to the Gungnir and Asgard 2 late last night for about 20 minutes or so with headphones and the music sounded incredible. I much prefer to have a DAC and headphone amp stack rather than having the headphone amp built into the DAC. Schiit Audio is certainly kicking ass and taking names right now.


----------



## JoelT

kljtech said:


> I much prefer to have a DAC and headphone amp stack rather than having the headphone amp built into the DAC.


 
 Generally speaking, I completely agree with you. That said, there are a few potential benefits to an integrated DAC - for example: Less initial up-front cost if one doesn't already own a DAC, a smaller footprint, the ability to use the combo as a secondary listening device in another room, a simpler entry point in to head-fi if one doesn't already own a DAC. Obviously a major downside is that integrated DAC's are generally not great performers. For example, the integrated in my WA7 is about on par with the Audioquest Dragonfly. The Gungnir is in a different league, no question or dispute there.


----------



## amnesiac75

I also have questions about jriver 19 settings for my gungnir. Currently I am using ASIO with no boxes checked, buffering set to 50ms and in ASIO control panel I have bit depth set to 32/32 bits and latency set to 10 ms. For the first month or so with the gungnir I was using WASAPI with bit depth set to automatic (32 bits) and buffering set to 100 ms and it sounded fine but going back and forth tonight I prefer ASIO not a huge difference but better sounding to my ears. I would love it if anyone else could compare these two settings and see what they think or maybe suggest something better.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Okay so, using FLAC files and WASAPI with foobar 2000, I cannot tell a difference between my modi and gungnir, is something broken?


----------



## Barry S

oicwutudidthar said:


> Okay so, using FLAC files and WASAPI with foobar 2000, I cannot tell a difference between my modi and gungnir, is something broken?




Can you describe your setup ( amp, headphones) and configuration? The Modi is pretty good and from my own A/B testing with the Gungnir, it may be hard to tell them apart with some amp/headphone combinations.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

asgard 2 amp, headphones ive used are the dt990 600ohm, he500, he400, hd650


----------



## Defiant00

I'd expect you to hear a difference, but it's also rather music-dependent whether you actually do.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

defiant00 said:


> I'd expect you to hear a difference, but it's also rather music-dependent whether you actually do.


 
  
 hmm, what type of music exactly? Im not even doing blind testing, just switching the sound output right in front of my eyes and I still can't hear a difference. Maybe I just don't have the golden ear? Seems like if the DAC is well engineered and neutrally transparent any difference is negligible. I found the same thing with amps, I honestly can't tell a difference between two well engineer amps (magni,o2, etc) The only I difference I can tell is there power output and gain, which is why i went the asgard 2, i like how much driving power it has as well as the gain switch. That being said, I honestly can't tell them apart from the o2,magni or even the burson soloist. I am also considering getting a valhalla 2 since it pushes almost 400mw in 600ohms, thats gotta be beautiful.
  
 It seems to me like a lot of the folks on here has expectation bias and make things up in their own head to justice there purchases, or whos knows, maybe my ears are just broken lol.


----------



## Defiant00

oicwutudidthar said:


> hmm, what type of music exactly? Im not even doing blind testing, just switching the sound output right in front of my eyes and I still can't hear a difference. Maybe I just don't have the golden ear? Seems like if the DAC is well engineered and neutrally transparent any difference is negligible. I found the same thing with amps, I honestly can't tell a difference between two well engineer amps (magni,o2, etc) The only I difference I can tell is there power output and gain, which is why i went the asgard 2, i like how much driving power it has as well as the gain switch. I am also considering getting a valhalla 2 since it pushes almost 400mw in 600ohms, thats gotta be beautiful.
> 
> It seems to me like a lot of the folks on here has expectation bias and make things up in their own head to justice there purchases, or whos knows, maybe my ears are just broken lol.


 
  
 Personally I have a hard time hearing a difference between any reasonable quality DAC as well, so you won't get any argument about that from me. With that said, I'd just suspect in general that it might be easier to hear differences on well-mastered music.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

defiant00 said:


> Personally I have a hard time hearing a difference between any reasonable quality DAC as well, so you won't get any argument about that from me. With that said, I'd just suspect in general that it might be easier to hear differences on well-mastered music.


 
  
 Yes I agree, the main issue now is a lot of the music is poorly mastered, espeicially the mainstream stuff.
  
 That being said, when changing headphones, I can hear a dramatic difference as opposed to switching amps,dacs.


----------



## madwolfa

amnesiac75 said:


> I also have questions about jriver 19 settings for my gungnir. Currently I am using ASIO with no boxes checked, buffering set to 50ms and in ASIO control panel I have bit depth set to 32/32 bits and latency set to 10 ms. For the first month or so with the gungnir I was using WASAPI with bit depth set to automatic (32 bits) and buffering set to 100 ms and it sounded fine but going back and forth tonight I prefer ASIO not a huge difference but better sounding to my ears. I would love it if anyone else could compare these two settings and see what they think or maybe suggest something better.


 
  
 There shouldn't be any difference, both are bit-perfect.


----------



## madwolfa

oicwutudidthar said:


> Yes I agree, the main issue now is a lot of the music is poorly mastered, espeicially the mainstream stuff.


 
  
 And that's why people think vinyl is superior to CD when in fact it's NOT. It's just the recordings are _mastered_ much better for vinyl.
 But yeah, nowadays I have to download vinyl rips mostly, because 90% of CDs are garbage. Which is a bummer, really.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

madwolfa said:


> There shouldn't be any difference, both are bit-perfect.


 
  
  
 I don't think I can tell a difference between bitperfect and not bitperfect windows audio manger does a really good job of sample rate conversion to the point where nothing is distorted.
  


madwolfa said:


> And that's why people think vinyl is superior to CD when in fact it's NOT. It's just the recordings are _mastered_ much better for vinyl.
> But yeah, nowadays I have to download vinyl rips mostly, because 90% of CDs are garbage. Which is a bummer, really.


 
  
 sadly a lot of the vinyl really isnt really vinyl, its still a digital master transfered on to vinyl


----------



## madwolfa

oicwutudidthar said:


> sadly a lot of the vinyl really isnt really vinyl, its still a digital master transfered on to vinyl


 
  
 I don't have anything against a _good_ digital master. My point is they're usually prepared much better for vinyl (no compression/much higher dynamic range).
  
 Bad compression artifacts/loudness war is not an inherent issue of digital mastering. It's an issue of sound engineers and recording companies.
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

madwolfa said:


> I don't have anything against a _good_ digital master. My point is they're usually prepared much better for vinyl (no compression/much higher dynamic range).
> 
> Bad compression artifacts/loudness war is not an inherent issue of digital mastering. It's an issue of sound engineers and recording companies.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war


 
  
 ya I agree but what im saying is a poorly mastered digital track transfered onto vinyl isnt going to fix it.


----------



## madwolfa

oicwutudidthar said:


> ya I agree but what im saying is a poorly mastered digital track transfered onto vinyl isnt going to fix it.


 
  
 Of course not, but they usually don't do that. Vinyl guys normally have much better equipment to start with, so the engineers orient on much higher common denominator.
  
 Also it's naturally much harder to cut something very loud and compressed onto the master lacquer. It's physically hard for playback too. 
So the media itself is more demanding on the mastering quality, whereas CD would allow putting any garbage on it without any physical limitations....


----------



## Sonic Defender

madwolfa said:


> Of course not, but they usually don't do that. Vinyl guys normally have much better equipment to start with, so the engineers orient on much higher common denominator.
> 
> Also it's naturally much harder to cut something very loud and compressed onto the master lacquer. It's physically hard for playback too.
> So the media itself is more demanding on the mastering quality, whereas CD would allow putting any garbage on it without any physical limitations....


 
  
 Without any physical limitations? What exactly do you mean? To the best of my knowledge CDs as a physical media certainly have limitations.


----------



## madwolfa

sonic defender said:


> Without any physical limitations? What exactly do you mean? To the best of my knowledge CDs as a physical media certainly have limitations.


 
  
 Yes, but the data is recorded digitally, hence the only limitation is defined in Red Book encoding standard: 2-channel LPCM at 44/16, which allows 96dB of dynamic range and full audible frequency range of 20–20,000 Hz. 
  
 You could master the audio at the point of clipping and compressed to 1-2 dB of dynamic range and CD wouldn't care (and this is what they do so your crappy iPod with Beats sounds good enough). Vinyl cutter would just blow itself up...


----------



## Sonic Defender

madwolfa said:


> Yes, but the data is recorded digitally, hence the only limitation is defined in Red Book encoding standard: 2-channel LPCM at 44/16, which allows 96dB of dynamic range and full audible frequency range of 20–20,000 Hz.
> 
> You could master the audio at the point of clipping and compressed to 1-2 dB of dynamic range and CD wouldn't care (and this is what they do so your crappy iPod with Beats sounds good enough). Vinyl cutter would just blow itself up...


 

 Gotcha, totally agree. I remember talking to a very experienced recording engineer about this and he reminded me that even vinyl was on occasion overdone with records so loud that the needle couldn't track and would just be blasted out of the grooves! Not something I expected to hear about vinyl, but it makes sense that it would happen.


----------



## madwolfa

sonic defender said:


> Gotcha, totally agree. I remember talking to a very experienced recording engineer about this and he reminded me that even vinyl was on occasion overdone with records so loud that the needle couldn't track and would just be blasted out of the grooves! Not something I expected to hear about vinyl, but it makes sense that it would happen.


 
  
 Yes, with vinyl you have to be really careful with what you do, regarding levels and such. And "vinyl people" just won't buy it if it sounds like crap.
 CD as a recording media is much more forgiving, so they're mastered poorly most of the times with levels near clipping and compressed to hell.
  
 But hey, at least it sounds good from your iPhone speaker, right?


----------



## madwolfa

There are CDs recorded so well, that no LP can even touch them (due to physical limitations). Most of them are ruined by bad mastering, though. That's making a lot of bad press for CDs as a recording media. But it has nothing to do with the media itself. Red Book is an excellent standard.


----------



## Sonic Defender

What are a few of your favourite well mastered CDs?


----------



## jchandler3

Hey Fellas, I just got my Gungnir today and so far I love it! Question about Audio MIDI setup:
  
 All of my music is 44.1/16, with a few exceptions. I have a few albums in 44.1/24 and one or two in 96/24. Since the vast majority of my music is 44.1/16, would it be best to leave it on that and switch when I'm going to listen beyond that, or should I put it on 96/24 and always upsample? I know there's no _benefit_ to upsampling, but is there a downside?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## kothganesh

jchandler3 said:


> Hey Fellas, I just got my Gungnir today and so far I love it! Question about Audio MIDI setup:
> 
> All of my music is 44.1/16, with a few exceptions. I have a few albums in 44.1/24 and one or two in 96/24. Since the vast majority of my music is 44.1/16, would it be best to leave it on that and switch when I'm going to listen beyond that, or should I put it on 96/24 and always upsample? I know there's no _benefit_ to upsampling, but is there a downside?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 Gungnir does not need switching, I don't think. I use Gungnir with my Macbook (Amarra is the player) and switching between 44.1/16 or 96/24 or even 192/24 happens automatically.


----------



## jchandler3

I think Amarra is doing the switching for you. I'm just using iTunes, so I need to open Audio MIDI every time... Not a big deal. Just wondering if upsampling is an issue or not.


----------



## madwolfa

sonic defender said:


> What are a few of your favourite well mastered CDs?


 
  
 Oh, I have quite a few.. like anything from Sara K or Allan Taylor (Stockfisch Records). Al Di Meola is recorded extremely well. Anything by Jacques Loussier, his CDs are amazing as most other Telarc stuff. Original pressings of "Dark Side of the Moon" (Japanese Black Triangle is the best) or "Wish You Were Here" by Pink Floyd (my reference CDs for most audio systems). Anything mastered by DCC/Steve Hoffman. Most of the stuff mastered in 80-90s is pretty decent, I am very wary of recently "remastered" old stuff because usually it's much worse than original pressings.


----------



## kothganesh

jchandler3 said:


> I think Amarra is doing the switching for you. I'm just using iTunes, so I need to open Audio MIDI every time... Not a big deal. Just wondering if upsampling is an issue or not.


 
 Thanks for the clarification. In terms of up sampling, I think you can ask 3 people to get 4 opinions! IMO, unless your ears can discern the subtleties, I would leave it at 44.1/16.


----------



## BeyerMonster

oicwutudidthar said:


> That being said, I honestly can't tell them apart from the o2,magni or even the burson soloist.
> ...
> It seems to me like a lot of the folks on here has expectation bias and make things up in their own head to justice there purchases, or whos knows, maybe my ears are just broken lol.


 
 Add "your music isn't very demanding" to the list of possibilities.
  
 IMO, getting other people's opinions is great for helping to guide which items to demo or purchase. However, if you already have the actual gear in hand and you can't tell the difference, just call it a day, save some money, and go listen to some tunes.
 Go spend it on something that makes a tangible difference to you.


----------



## jchandler3

kothganesh said:


> Thanks for the clarification. In terms of up sampling, I think you can ask 3 people to get 4 opinions! IMO, unless your ears can discern the subtleties, I would leave it at 44.1/16.


 
  
 Yeah, I think you're right. 44.1/16 it is!
  
 Quick Gungnir first-impressions anecdote:
  
 Is that interference I'm hearing? Clicking? Nope... bass strings slapping that I had never heard before!


----------



## madwolfa

beyermonster said:


> Go spend it on something that makes a tangible difference to you.


 
  
 Like a bottle of wine.


----------



## paradoxper

jchandler3 said:


> I think Amarra is doing the switching for you. I'm just using iTunes, so I need to open Audio MIDI every time... Not a big deal. Just wondering if upsampling is an issue or not.


 
 Amarra will do it automatically. A little app BitPerfect works with itunes and also does it for you.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

can you guys actually tell a difference between bit perfect and non? I swear I can't.


----------



## madwolfa

oicwutudidthar said:


> can you guys actually tell a difference between bit perfect and non? I swear I can't.


 
  
 Maybe not, but why let a bug in your head?


----------



## Sonic Defender

madwolfa said:


> Maybe not, but why let a bug in your head?


 
  
 So funny, and so true. Just wondering if there might be a difference can really detract from the joy! No wonder audio bliss is so expensive. I would be willing to bet that detecting non-bit perfect would be extremely challenging for anybody, but why bother trying?


----------



## chalkdust

just to update everyone on my situation, my replacement Gungnir has arrived and i've used it (the same way i did before) and i've had no issues with that buzzing or any disconnects or any USB power issues with this one.  i think i'll keep it!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

chalkdust said:


> just to update everyone on my situation, my replacement Gungnir has arrived and i've used it (the same way i did before) and i've had no issues with that buzzing or any disconnects or any USB power issues with this one.  i think i'll keep it!




Great news, how does she sound?


----------



## chalkdust

It sounds clearer and has ALOT more separation than my well used ODAC. I'm not used to so much separation. There also is much less bass. It also required me to turn up the volume on my amp quite a bit to achieve the same sound, but I'm getting used to it.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

chalkdust said:


> It sounds clearer and has ALOT more separation than my well used ODAC. I'm not used to so much separation. There also is much less bass. It also required me to turn up the volume on my amp quite a bit to achieve the same sound, but I'm getting used to it.




What is the output of the ODAC, is it higher that the Schiit's 2V?


----------



## chalkdust

I think it's 2.0v. I got it from http://www.jdslabs.com/products/46/standalone-odac/

One other thing I noticed is when I play music via audirvana I can not control the volume from the computer. It's locked. If I just play in iTunes I can adjust volume. What's up with that?


----------



## madwolfa

chalkdust said:


> I think it's 2.0v. I got it from http://www.jdslabs.com/products/46/standalone-odac/
> 
> One other thing I noticed is when I play music via audirvana I can not control the volume from the computer. It's locked. If I just play in iTunes I can adjust volume. What's up with that?


 
  
 If you want a bitperfect output to your DAC, your digital volume has to remain locked at 100%.


----------



## jchandler3

Is anyone currently running their Gungnir through a USB hub without issue? Due to my setup, I really need to use a hub, but my current hub is sending frequent clicks through the audio chain. I'm using the older version of D-Link's DUB-H7, pictured below. I'm positive it's _not_ my cables or the Gungnir itself (tested in various configurations, confirming it's the hub). 

  
 Any recommendations on a reasonably priced hub ($40 or below) that you know provides clean power to the Gungnir? Or should I just wait for the arrival of the Wyrd, since this is exactly what it's supposed to clear up?
  
 Thanks guys!


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Why wouldn't you wait for the wyrd?  it seems perfect for what you need and Schiit's done pretty good at bumping new releases in short order.  The ifi iusb is twice as much and would probably get the job done today; not in the budget I suppose!


----------



## kothganesh

mr.sneis said:


> Why wouldn't you wait for the wyrd?  it seems perfect for what you need and Schiit's done pretty good at bumping new releases in short order.  The ifi iusb is twice as much and would probably get the job done today; not in the budget I suppose!


 
 My reaction exactly. I've made do without a hub for so long...waiting for that Wyrd (and don't we love the name !!)


----------



## jchandler3

Yup, you guys are right. The Wyrd will likely fit the bill. I don't mind being one of the guinea pigs. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks!


----------



## Empty Flower

I have a question, I heard Mike Moffat say that the Gungnir has a total of four DACs in there (one DAC per phase, per channel), but as far as I know spec-wise it's listed with two AKM4399s. I don't know much about how these things work so can someone explain to me what that is so?


----------



## jchandler3

empty flower said:


> I have a question, I heard Mike Moffat say that the Gungnir has a total of four DACs in there (one DAC per phase, per channel), but as far as I know spec-wise it's listed with two AKM4399s. I don't know much about how these things work so can someone explain to me what that is so?


 
  
 It has two (2) AKM4399s, which are stereo (2 channel) DACs. Ergo, 4 channels. 
  
 Is that what you were asking?


----------



## Empty Flower

jchandler3 said:


> It has two (2) AKM4399s, which are stereo (2 channel) DACs. Ergo, 4 channels.
> 
> Is that what you were asking?


 
  
 This must be it, or what it means, I heard the original explanation here starting around 4 minutes:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Eu1LyPZ090


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

anyone looking to sell their gungnir? looking for one, w or w/o usb, both are fine
  
 send me a pm / post in my bst thread if you do
  
 thx


----------



## reddog

Hello hope everyone is well. I have a friend who has offered to sell me his oppo bpd 103 for cheap, can I hook this unit up to a gungnir, and use the gungnir dac, instead of the oppo's dac?. Thanks.


----------



## jchandler3

reddog said:


> Hello hope everyone is well. I have a friend who has offered to sell me his oppo bpd 103 for cheap, can I hook this unit up to a gungnir, and use the gungnir dac, instead of the oppo's dac?. Thanks.




Yes, it has multiple digital outs. You could use basically any DAC but specifically yes, you can use the Gungnir.


----------



## reddog

Thanks for the information, I will most likely pick up the oppo 103.


----------



## Maven86

So I just got a Gungnir after switching from a DA8 and have a bit of a problem.  When I run it balanced using XLR interconnects and a 4 pin XLR out for my headphones, the left and right channels get inverted.  However, when I use the same balanced interconnects with a single ended headphone, the L & R channels become normal again.  The single ended out is also normal when I use regular RCA cables (as it should be).  I haven't had this problem with my DA8 and was wondering if anyone else has had this issue with the Gungnir.  My setup is:
  
  
 iMac=>Gungnir==>Master 9==>Balanced HE-560
  
  
 Any help would be great.  Thanks!
  
 Edit:  I also checked the cables several times, everything is in it's proper place.


----------



## Solude

Define inverted?  Polarity or left and right?


----------



## Maven86

By inverted I mean that the sound from the left and right channels have been switched.  On another note, if you use balanced interconnects between a fully balanced DAC and amp, would you get this channel inversion when plugging in a single ended headphone (e.g. 1/4th connector).


----------



## Solude

If the channels are swapped that would be the headphone cable or the M9 cabling.  Everything on the Gungnir is surface mount, no hand soldering.  The Audio-GD is hand soldered.   Without a 4pin to trs adapter it would be difficult to tell which it is.  The Gungnir it is not though.


----------



## Maven86

Thanks for the reply Solude.  Yea, I contacted Schiit and they gave me the same response so it's most likely not the gungnir.  For now I just swapped the channels via software on the computer so it's fine.  Although I was still just curious as to why a headphone connected via single ended, does not have the channels swapped when the M9 and Gungnir are connected using balanced cables.  The channels would be swapped when I would do this using my old Yulong DA8.


----------



## Solude

Meaning the DA8 into the M9 the same headphones single ended or balanced are fine?


----------



## Maven86

Meaning with the DA8 connected in balanced mode with the M9, the single headphone is NOT fine, the L and R channels are inverted.  The balanced headphone is fine though (as it should be?). 
  
 I guess what I'm trying ask is if this is normal for a balanced setup, or should a single ended headphone not have channel inversion when plugged into a balanced setup.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

maven86 said:


> So I just got a Gungnir after switching from a DA8 and have a bit of a problem.  When I run it balanced using XLR interconnects and a 4 pin XLR out for my headphones, the left and right channels get inverted.  However, when I use the same balanced interconnects with a single ended headphone, the L & R channels become normal again.  The single ended out is also normal when I use regular RCA cables (as it should be).  I haven't had this problem with my DA8 and was wondering if anyone else has had this issue with the Gungnir.  My setup is:
> 
> 
> iMac=>Gungnir==>Master 9==>Balanced HE-560
> ...


 
  
 Granted everything in the chain is as it should be... why don't you just swap the cable entries going into the HE-560?
  
 If you can get a multimeter (which you should try to get just to have one around) you can check for continuity of your cables.  It's also pretty easy to undo the jackets on an XLR cable to check how it's wired if you don't have a multimeter... should be pins 1 Shield 2 (+/hot) 3 (-/cold) for the most part.


----------



## Maven86

Yea, switching the cable entries was another solution, I just opted to switch the channels via software (midi app, J-river ect.).  I'm not sure if this is a worse option. 
  
 I'll take your advice on getting a multimeter, should come in handy, thanks Mr.Sneis.


----------



## adamaley

Well, fellas, it'll soon be time for me to receive my Gungnir in the mail directly from Schiit via Amazon. I got the USB version, and will be using that connection primarily. I will be using a Windows 7 PC ----> USB ----> Gungnir ----> Bottlehead Crack (Speedplay) ----> Sennheiser HD-650s. I was wondering if anyone here uses this combo, and how it works for them. Please drop a line with impressions, suggestions, potential hurdles etc. A couple of years ago, I had an LCD 2 Rev. 2 coupled with a Red Wine Audio Isabellina HPA/DAC. I really enjoyed that setup but had to take a hiatus from it due to travel. Now, I am back, looking to obtain that same level of sound, but economically smarter. Reading the comments on here and around the web, I get the impression the Gungnir should punch above its price point to the level of the Isabellina DAC. I also suspect it will have the same sound signature; very organic, realistic timbre, great palpable mid-range, tamed highs. Any input would be appreciated.


----------



## KLJTech

I think you'll find that the Gungnir absolutely preforms beyond its price point. I'm using one in my office system with Windows 7 x64 and it ended up beating out my Bryston BDA-1 and Benchmark DAC1 USB. Good digital gear has become VERY good so I don't hear the night and day differences between better DAC's like I would just around 4-5 years ago. Yet over the period of a couple weeks, while relaxed and simply enjoying my music (not trying to listen to the gear for differences be they good or bad differences) I found that I enjoyed the less expensive Gungnir over the two other well regarded DAC's. I certainly enjoy many aspects of both the Bryston and the Benchmark but if I could only keep one of the three it would be the Gungnir.
  
 I don't have any MP3's other than Audiobooks so the music I'm listening to is as well recorded as I can find which "should" help and to my ears the Gungnir sounds outstanding. I listen via speakers (Magnepan 1.7's or B&W 805's...both with a Velodyne DD series sub) more often than headphones and to me, in my rooms, the Gungnir has a beautifully natural midrange, tight powerful bass with a very, very clean yet detailed treble. You have to be careful when choosing your source/DAC with the B&W's or the Nautilus tweeter can become a tad bright (at least in my office that's carpeted but without much on the walls...a lot of hard surfaces) yet the Gungnir allowed all the detail (if not more) to flow that I'm accustomed to without any harshness and soundstage is outstanding. I understand that some will argue that a soundstage is B.S yet with well recorded material I'm able to hear all the musicians spread out across the room behind the speakers and at times beyond the side walls and almost always deeper than the back wall. 
  
I haven't heard the Bottlehead Crack (I've heard good things about it) so my bet is that you're going to truly enjoy the combination of it and the Gungnir. 
Best of luck!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^^Anybody that argues against the soundstage provided by an excellent stereo system is either very ignorant, or full of Schiit.


----------



## Solude

To be fair, a lot of sources paint a fuzzy mess of a soundstage.  The Gungnir imaging is on the other hand precise.


----------



## gameon

Has anyone compared a Gungnir to the Dac in the New Oppo HA-1 ?


----------



## reddog

Hello I a set of alpha dogs and the lyr2 amp, I was wondering which dac should I get, either the Gungnir or the Bifrost. Which of these dacs has the better synergy with the AD'S. Thanks for your time.


----------



## Solude

If you can swing it the Gungnir is the better dac even single ended.


----------



## reddog

solude said:


> If you can swing it the Gungnir is the better dac even single ended.


Thanks I shall next save up for the Gungnir dac. And early next year, I shall go for the Ragnarok and balanced cables and see how alpha dogs sound in balanced mode. Thanks again.


----------



## kothganesh

adamaley said:


> Well, fellas, it'll soon be time for me to receive my Gungnir in the mail directly from Schiit via Amazon. I got the USB version, and will be using that connection primarily. I will be using a Windows 7 PC ----> USB ----> Gungnir ----> Bottlehead Crack (Speedplay) ----> Sennheiser HD-650s. I was wondering if anyone here uses this combo, and how it works for them. Please drop a line with impressions, suggestions, potential hurdles etc. A couple of years ago, I had an LCD 2 Rev. 2 coupled with a Red Wine Audio Isabellina HPA/DAC. I really enjoyed that setup but had to take a hiatus from it due to travel. Now, I am back, looking to obtain that same level of sound, but economically smarter. Reading the comments on here and around the web, I get the impression the Gungnir should punch above its price point to the level of the Isabellina DAC. I also suspect it will have the same sound signature; very organic, realistic timbre, great palpable mid-range, tamed highs. Any input would be appreciated.


 
 I use the Bifrost Uber at the office and the Gungnir at home. I use the Crack exclusively with the 650 and the Senn 800. There is no doubt in my mind that Gungnir punches way above its price although that is more an emotional statement. The Gungnir is the most expensive DAC I own so take the previous statement with some salt!


----------



## adamaley

Thanks KLJTech and Kothganesh. Also, I'm glad to hear that the Gungnir, Crack, HD-650 combo synergises. It should arrive soon and I'm proper stoked. Having everything in place without a DAC is pretty painful. My EMU 0404 USB is holding things down for now.


----------



## Syan25

I have to wait until Christmas before I can buy one of these!


----------



## kothganesh

adamaley said:


> Thanks KLJTech and Kothganesh. Also, I'm glad to hear that the Gungnir, Crack, HD-650 combo synergises. It should arrive soon and I'm proper stoked. Having everything in place without a DAC is pretty painful. My EMU 0404 USB is holding things down for now.


 
 Welcome aboard! And let us know when you want the Mjolnir
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. A great pairing with the Gungnir for your Audez'e. Now what was the saying again on Head-fi?


----------



## adamaley

Sadly the Audezes were sold years ago ( I do need to update my profile). Since I am assembling an HD-650/BH Crack system now, I may look to obtain one of the better LCDs (3 or X) with a statement amp someday. Not in the near future though.


----------



## adamaley

Well, the Gungnir is in the house and so far I like what I am hearing. It has the attributes I am looking for. Also, the build quality....WOW! 
@kothganesh- I doubt I'll be looking at the Mjolnir. I am a slave to the tube. I don't live without them. Now, if we could only get Ragnarok to.......I'll stop dreaming.
 I understand the Gungnir needs a lot of time to burn-in, so I won't bore/mislead anyone with early impressions, since things are bound to change for the better. 
  
 Night, fellas.


----------



## kothganesh

adamaley said:


> Well, the Gungnir is in the house and so far I like what I am hearing. It has the attributes I am looking for. Also, the build quality....WOW!
> @kothganesh- I doubt I'll be looking at the Mjolnir. I am a slave to the tube. I don't live without them. Now, if we could only get Ragnarok to.......I'll stop dreaming.
> I understand the Gungnir needs a lot of time to burn-in, so I won't bore/mislead anyone with early impressions, since things are bound to change for the better.
> 
> Night, fellas.


 
 Understand and share your reluctance to write about anything before at least 20 hours of listening (IMO, of course). Enjoy !


----------



## chewynuts

Dear Sirs,
  
 Are the outputs of the Gungnir all active at the same time? I.e. does it output to both the balanced out and the single ended rca outs at the same time? Thank you.


----------



## Gerzom

chewynuts said:


> Dear Sirs,
> 
> Are the outputs of the Gungnir all active at the same time? I.e. does it output to both the balanced out and the single ended rca outs at the same time? Thank you.


 
Nope, I found it is either XLR or RCA, not both at the same time.
 Sorry that was with my Mjolnir!


----------



## kothganesh

chewynuts said:


> Dear Sirs,
> 
> Are the outputs of the Gungnir all active at the same time? I.e. does it output to both the balanced out and the single ended rca outs at the same time? Thank you.


 
 I think they are. If my memory serves me right, I tried using the balanced out to the Mjolnir and the SE outs to the Emotiva mini-X.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Yep, they are -- I regularly use balanced out to Mjolnir and SE out to Rega Brio-R.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Random thought.  It's super legit that the Gungnir sports 3 sets of outputs --  I haven't really seen other DACs that can do that so far.


----------



## adamaley

chewynuts said:


> Dear Sirs,
> 
> Are the outputs of the Gungnir all active at the same time? I.e. does it output to both the balanced out and the single ended rca outs at the same time? Thank you.


 
 I can speak only for the single ended outputs, which do output simultaneously.


----------



## Turn&cough

Has anybody compared EE Minimax or Yulong DA8 with Bifrost or Gungnir?


----------



## adamaley

In this review a comparison is made against the EE Minimax Plus, :
 http://yourfinalsystem.com/dac-reviews/167-schiit-gungnir-usb-dac-review


----------



## Turn&cough

Thanks for the link. 
  
 Quote:


> Specifically, how did the two DAC's compare? The Minimax Plus gave us a little more pronounced snare hit and a little more air in the top end of the frequency response compared to the Gungnir...
> 
> ...The real icing on the cake was the fact that we couldn't tell which DAC we were listening to once we listened for more than a minute or two without looking at our input selector.


 
  
 The Gungnir seems like a pretty nice DAC.
  
 I already have the original Minimax ($650 at the time). It has quite a few mods including rectifier bridge, diodes, Belleson regulators, caps, Dexa discrete opamps on the input stage and Mullard tube. I feel the Gungnir would be a lateral move at best. I guess there really is no free lunch. Looks like I'll have to move up a few price brackets to get that last iota of diminished returns improvement.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^^If for namesake and QC, too many variables. In the MinMax, and it sounds like a device to assist episodic, monthly bleeding.....just sayn'....:


----------



## adamaley

http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/ranking-of-21-dacs-and-dac-configurations-and-why-chocolate-ice-cream-must-die/1020
  
 This is where you need to go to determine what's up at the next tier of DACs. A very good comparison, albeit very contentious, was had there.


----------



## Barry S

turn&cough said:


> Has anybody compared EE Minimax or Yulong DA8 with Bifrost or Gungnir?


 

 I've directly compared the Gungnir with the DA8. They're equivalent in quality, but the feature sets differ considerably. The DA8 sounds like the Gungnir in the sharp filter mode. In the slow mode, the DA8 offers a softer presentation--may be good if you're trying for a rounder sound.


----------



## Gerzom

Hi, I want to add the USB option to my Gungnir. I'm no wizzard with electronics, but I was wondering of this would be an "easy" job I can do my self. Anybody has got any experience doing it themselves? any tricky things I should be watching out for, or is it all straight forward plug and play?
  
 Thanks in advance for your replies!!


----------



## Solude

The hard part is getting the LEDs lined up when you put the case back together.  It was not fun.


----------



## davidflas

solude said:


> The hard part is getting the LEDs lined up when you put the case back together.  It was not fun.




Not to mention keeping track of all the screws. I was surprised by how fully I had to disassemble my Gungnir to update from USB 1 to USB 2.


----------



## TK277

With my luck I'd strip the screws and accidentally scratch the case when I put them back in. 
  
 Luckily, my Gungnir came with gen 2.


----------



## Gerzom

mmmm, I got mine initially without USB, so it will be new install for me. Does the board come with installation instructions?
 Anyway, board should be here next couple of days, see if I can manage to not screw it up


----------



## joebobbilly

A more handy buddy of mine was over to supervise me doing it. It wasn't too complicate... just a bit hard to maneuver something so large to line up the LEDs and the button. So an extra pair of trusted hands is definitely helpful.


----------



## reddog

joebobbilly said:


> A more handy buddy of mine was over to supervise me doing it. It wasn't too complicate... just a bit hard to maneuver something so large to line up the LEDs and the button. So an extra pair of trusted hands is definitely helpful.
> [/quotes
> Hmmm sounds easy enough, however I think I will get the Gungnir with the gen 2 usb already installed. I would love to install it myself my hands have nerve damage and I feel I would screw up. But it is great to know most people could do the installation themselves.


----------



## Gerzom

Well..... received my USB gen 2 board today, installed it (went pretty smooth, even the LED's lined up nicely) installed the drivers on my laptop, plugged everything in and then......... nothing, no sound from the Gungnir/Mjolnir 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 I could see the laptop speakers are using the "Schiit USB Audio Gen 2" driver and the little dials are moving up and down in there, but no music from either Spotify, Youtube, Mediaplayer, etc.
  
 Opened the Gungnir again to see if I missed something, re-installed the drivers, used different USB port, all with the same results, dead silence. I tried it on another laptop and hooked it to my Samsung Chromebook, all with the same result.
  
 Any idea what might have gone wrong here?
 I use my Modi/Magni on the same USB port with the same Schiit USB cable and they still work, so can't be any of those I guess (and yes, all volume settings have been checked and I selected the USB input on my Gungnir, as suggested by Schiit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## kodger

I assume you have lights on your gungnir
I assume you gave everything an extra push to make sure socket was connected properly
Did you try an cable switching?

I hate it when things do not work

Good luck


----------



## G1Snd

Quote:


gerzom said:


> Well..... received my USB gen 2 board today, installed it (went pretty smooth, even the LED's lined up nicely) installed the drivers on my laptop, plugged everything in and then......... nothing, no sound from the Gungnir/Mjolnir
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you hear the usual relay clicks when playing songs of different sample rates over USB? If you don't, then I suspect the signal isn't reaching the Gungnir due to a driver or setting problem or there is something wrong with the USB board.


----------



## Gerzom

g1snd said:


> Quote:
> 
> Do you hear the usual relay clicks when playing songs of different sample rates over USB? If you don't, then I suspect the signal isn't reaching the Gungnir due to a driver or setting problem or there is something wrong with the USB board.


 
 Hi, I only hear the relay clicks when I reboot my laptop (with the usb cable connected) after that no more clicks.
 I've removed and re-installed the driver and I've done another install of the driver on a different laptop and tried it on Chromebook (not sure if that is even supported)
  
 I'm waiting for a response from my local Schiit dealer to respond now. See where this goes.........


----------



## Solude

Email or PM Schiit directly.  Jason has an account on Head-Fi.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

solude said:


> Email or PM Schiit directly.  Jason has an account on Head-Fi.




Or tech@schiit.com, Nick is extremely helpful..


----------



## KLJTech

Under Device Manager / Sound, Video and Game Controllers: do you see Schiit USB Audio Device listed? 
  
 I'm sorry for asking such a basic question, but I didn't see if you had checked for it under Device Manager yet.
  
 I hope you're able to get it worked out very soon, I know issues like these are a pain. 
  
 We had one office PC (running Windows 7 x64) and for whatever reason it had trouble at first with both the Gungnir Gen 2 USB and Bryston BDA-1. The ONLY way we got it up and running was to go to the Device Manager and one by one remove/uninstall every USB Root Hub and Generic Hub and then restart then PC and having it reinstall all of them (automatically) on that next bootup. Once that was done we plugged in the Gungnir and it worked perfectly...may be worth a shot. 
  
*Good luck! *


----------



## Gerzom

wildcatsare1 said:


> Or tech@schiit.com, Nick is extremely helpful..


 
 I bought the USB board from Schiit-Europe (Sonority Audio here in the Netherlands are authorized Schiit dealer) so I was asked to contact them by Nick. Makes sense to me.


----------



## Kiwikat

Something weird just happened, not sure if it had to do with Gungnir or Audirvana.  Music was playing back at about 90-95% normal speed.  I restarted them both and it is back to normal.  Just curious if it has happened to anyone else or if anyone has any ideas of what may have caused it.


----------



## kothganesh

kiwikat said:


> Something weird just happened, not sure if it had to do with Gungnir or Audirvana.  Music was playing back at about 90-95% normal speed.  I restarted them both and it is back to normal.  Just curious if it has happened to anyone else or if anyone has any ideas of what may have caused it.


 
 It happened to me with Gungnir and Amarra. I think I was clicking very quickly between songs(16/44.1 to 24/192 and back) and I seem to remember Amarra was indicating a rate different than the recording. I quit Amarra and restarted it. Things came back to normal.


----------



## G1Snd

kiwikat said:


> Something weird just happened, not sure if it had to do with Gungnir or Audirvana.  Music was playing back at about 90-95% normal speed.  I restarted them both and it is back to normal.  Just curious if it has happened to anyone else or if anyone has any ideas of what may have caused it.



 


Just a second confirmation that, yes, it was playing at an incorrect sample rate. If you don't hear the Gungnir click then it probably hasn't switch sample rates. Foobar and XMPlay always switch sample rates as needed. In uLilith I usually have to stop playback then click play to get the sample rate to change. Actually everything I just said may only apply if using ASIO output. I remember different types of outputs behaving differently.


----------



## G1Snd

I don't know how it double posted?
I also keep finding that I'm logged out after about 1 minute. It's making me a faster typer.


----------



## MattTCG

Has the gungnir undergone any usb upgrades since release or has it remained the same? Same question for the uber upgrade on this dac.
  
 thanks...


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> Has the gungnir undergone any usb upgrades since release or has it remained the same? Same question for the uber upgrade on this dac.
> 
> thanks...


 
 There has been one USB upgrade since the Gungnir was originally released.... there has been no uber-type upgrades that I know of..in fact the uberFrost was based on the Gungnir (if I recollect correctly)...


----------



## commtrd

adamaley said:


> Well, fellas, it'll soon be time for me to receive my Gungnir in the mail directly from Schiit via Amazon. I got the USB version, and will be using that connection primarily. I will be using a Windows 7 PC ----> USB ----> Gungnir ----> Bottlehead Crack (Speedplay) ----> Sennheiser HD-650s. I was wondering if anyone here uses this combo, and how it works for them. Please drop a line with impressions, suggestions, potential hurdles etc. A couple of years ago, I had an LCD 2 Rev. 2 coupled with a Red Wine Audio Isabellina HPA/DAC. I really enjoyed that setup but had to take a hiatus from it due to travel. Now, I am back, looking to obtain that same level of sound, but economically smarter. Reading the comments on here and around the web, I get the impression the Gungnir should punch above its price point to the level of the Isabellina DAC. I also suspect it will have the same sound signature; very organic, realistic timbre, great palpable mid-range, tamed highs. Any input would be appreciated.


 

 It will but should get the USB upgrade if using USB. Well worth it.


----------



## adamaley

I don't believe there is a USB upgrade to the Gungnir, at least not since I bought it less than two months ago.


----------



## kothganesh

adamaley said:


> I don't believe there is a USB upgrade to the Gungnir, at least not since I bought it less than two months ago.


 
 The question was whether there was an upgrade from release?  The one you bought would not have one.


----------



## adamaley

commtrd said:


> It will but should get the USB upgrade if using USB. Well worth it.


 
  
 My answer was in response to this, which quoted me. It sounded more like a suggestion than a question.


----------



## kothganesh

adamaley said:


> My answer was in response to this, which quoted me. It sounded more like a suggestion than a question.


 
 Right, sorry mate.


----------



## adamaley

Ok, I see the confusion based on the posts prior to me being quoted.


----------



## adamaley

No worries.


----------



## adamaley

If anyone was wondering how I'm getting along with my Gungnir, since I never got back on here to followup..............I'm loving it. I also got the Wyrd in the mix, and it definitely improves things even further. Of course, this is IMO, YMMV etc.


----------



## joyway

Hi, can Gungnir used with Macbook OSX?
  
 Any reply will be appreciated.


----------



## kothganesh

joyway said:


> Hi, can Gungnir used with Macbook OSX?
> 
> Any reply will be appreciated.
> [/quote
> Yes.


----------



## Defiant00

joyway said:


> Hi, can Gungnir used with Macbook OSX?
> 
> Any reply will be appreciated.


 
  
 Yes, using USB or optical, your choice.


----------



## joyway

defiant00 said:


> Yes, using USB or optical, your choice.


 
  


kothganesh said:


> joyway said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, can Gungnir used with Macbook OSX?
> ...


 
 Many thanks


----------



## kothganesh

joyway said:


> Many thanks


 
 Just one heads-up...If you're using the Macbook Air, there is no optical out. The USB is very good though.


----------



## jchandler3

joyway said:


> Hi, can Gungnir used with Macbook OSX?
> 
> Any reply will be appreciated.




If you care about hi-res stuff, use USB. Macs only go up to 96k via optical. Not something I care about, but FYI.


----------



## forkliftHIFI

I'm trying to decide between an Uber Bifrost and a Gungnir.  Can anyone with firsthand experience of both shed some light?  I can't find much online.  I understand Gungnir has XLR outs but I would mostly be using it single ended through a tube preamp.


----------



## madwolfa

forklifthifi said:


> I'm trying to decide between an Uber Bifrost and a Gungnir.  Can anyone with firsthand experience of both shed some light?  I can't find much online.  I understand Gungnir has XLR outs but I would mostly be using it single ended through a tube preamp.


 
  
 Just get a Bifrost.


----------



## huberd

Sorry this go posted in the wrong forum.


----------



## forkliftHIFI

madwolfa said:


> Just get a Bifrost.


 
 Any particular reason?


----------



## madwolfa

forklifthifi said:


> Any particular reason?


 
  
 Think about it the other way - is there any particular reason to get a Gungnir? From what you said it doesn't seem so.


----------



## Solude

madwolfa said:


> Think about it the other way - is there any particular reason to get a Gungnir? From what you said it doesn't seem so.


 
  
 The Gungnir has a better digital board while the Bifrost Uber shares the same analog board.  Think PS Audio PerfectWave DAC versus a PerfectWave DAC2.  Same analog section, different digital.  Gungnir also has the better power supply and tighter timing for the digital side.  Like they say... if you can afford the Gungnir, even single ended, get the Gungnir.


----------



## Nhubley

I want one of these bad boys soo bad for my WA2.


----------



## amnesiac75

I've been using the gungnir for about 7 months using only the se outputs and it sounds great no doubt an improvement over the modi but if I could go back I would get the uber frost and save 330 bucks . The main reason for this is the space it takes up on my desk second is knowing now that I may never use balanced it seems kind of overkill.


----------



## commtrd

The Gungnir is well worth the money IMHO. Looking forward to the Yggy though. Balanced is the way to go.


----------



## kothganesh

commtrd said:


> The Gungnir is well worth the money IMHO. Looking forward to the Yggy though. Balanced is the way to go.


 
 +1. IMO, the improvement in SQ from SE to balanced is noticeable.


----------



## Nhubley

Is it better than the wds-1?


----------



## Solude

nhubley said:


> Is it better than the wds-1?


 
  
 Yes.  Same answer for Bifrost... non uber.


----------



## Nhubley

solude said:


> Yes.  Same answer for Bifrost... non uber.


 
 Schhhiiit really! Well looks like I am getting one than.


----------



## mthucs

I've got a Concero HD at the moment. Think it's worth upgrading to the Gungnir now or holding off for the Yggy?
  
 Mind you, it'll be a while until I can afford the Yggy. The Gungnir is well within my budget atm.


----------



## mthucs

Hey guys,
  
 The balanced output for the Gungnir, does it use gold or silver contacts?


----------



## richbass

questhate said:


> I got a Mytek 192 and X-Sabre incoming. I'll likely try that Concero with DSD capabilities whenever that comes out as well. I just needed something with a smaller footprint that I could fit onto my desk.
> 
> To be fair, the jury is still out on the Mytek. I'll probably post comparative impressions once it gets here, but it's a shame I won't have them side-by-side. I didn't expect the Gungnir to sell as fast as it did.


 
 No impressions yet ?


----------



## KLJTech

mthucs said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> The balanced output for the Gungnir, does it use gold or silver contacts?


 
  
 The pins on the LXR outs are gold plated.


----------



## mthucs

kljtech said:


> The pins on the LXR outs are gold plated.


 
 Cheers mate.


----------



## rohitharsh

Sadly these are backordered due to parts shortage. I ordered mine and am waiting. The Mjolnir arrived today. Audeze LCD3 by Friday. But sadly will have to wait a while.
 Cannot wait to start listening to this set up.


----------



## KLJTech

rohitharsh said:


> Sadly these are backordered due to parts shortage. I ordered mine and am waiting. The Mjolnir arrived today. Audeze LCD3 by Friday. But sadly will have to wait a while.
> Cannot wait to start listening to this set up.


 
  
 The Gungnir beat out the more than twice as expensive Bryston BDA-1 in my system (Parasound A21, (preamp varies) Magnepan 1.7 and Velodyne DD-12) I think you'll find it well worth the wait. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
*Good luck and I hope you get yours soon!*


----------



## rohitharsh

kljtech said:


> The Gungnir beat out the more than twice as expensive Bryston BDA-1 in my system (Parasound A21, (preamp varies) Magnepan 1.7 and Velodyne DD-12) I think you'll find it well worth the wait.
> 
> *Good luck and I hope you get yours soon!*



Ah..nice...you know now I want it even more.


----------



## commtrd

My M/G stack are really nice sounding. I have used them for many thousands of hours of listening with all the Audeze cans I have ownedand always performed flawlessly. IMHO for the money spent, just can't beat these two components. Even though I have a Ragnarok on order, IF I was not up grading (out of curiosity more than anything else) there really is no reason to HAVE to upgrade. I am sure there is better to be had but not for the money spent. You get right into the point of rapidly diminishing returns I think. I think I will keep my Mjo when I get the Rag and then when I can  get the Yggy will use the Gungnir/Mjolnir as a second system in the RV. That says a lot that I would rather keep my G/M stack than sell them... BTW might want to lookinto adding the Wyrd for a c-note as it really helps clean up [possible] less than perfect data flow via USB. Made a really noticeable difference to SQ from my chain.


----------



## Solude

Nods, the Gung Mjol combo really hits the spot.  The Gung is slightly dark, the Mjol slightly bright but together... magic.


----------



## reddog

commtrd said:


> My M/G stack are really nice sounding. I have used them for many thousands of hours of listening with all the Audeze cans I have ownedand always performed flawlessly. IMHO for the money spent, just can't beat these two components. Even though I have a Ragnarok on order, IF I was not up grading (out of curiosity more than anything else) there really is no reason to HAVE to upgrade. I am sure there is better to be had but not for the money spent. You get right into the point of rapidly diminishing returns I think. I think I will keep my Mjo when I get the Rag and then when I can  get the Yggy will use the Gungnir/Mjolnir as a second system in the RV. That says a lot that I would rather keep my G/M stack than sell them... BTW might want to lookinto adding the Wyrd for a c-note as it really helps clean up [possible] less than perfect data flow via USB. Made a really noticeable difference to SQ from my chain.



I would like to hear your impressions on your Gungnir and Ragnarok ( when it arrives) combination.


----------



## commtrd

Yeah I am curious as to how the G will pair up with the rag also. Right now the G/M with the X are just a really sweet setup. Very happy with the SQ...


----------



## kothganesh

commtrd said:


> Yeah I am curious as to how the G will pair up with the rag also. Right now the G/M with the X are just a really sweet setup. Very happy with the SQ...


 

 +1. And with the Wyrd arriving today, a very nice combo became not-subtly better.


----------



## paladinm

Hey, guys, I'm using uber'd Bifrost + wa2 right now, is it worth it to spend another $330 to upgrade to Gungnir? (I contacted Schiit, I still can return my uber bifrost), or Gungnir it's just for balanced systems? (I read that they use the same DAC chip, only Gungnir has two of them...and with uber upgrade I got the same analog stage...but I also read that Gungnir is a great DAC...I just don't know if there is any other difference between them --- if I go with single ended amps like wa2)


----------



## Solude

Single ended the Gungnir has a better power supply and digital board.  So yes if you have enough to cover the difference, worth it.


----------



## KLJTech

I'm using the Gungnir via its RCA outputs in my system, only you can decide if its worth it or not. I realize that isn't a great answer so I can tell you that I've never regretted buying the more expensive/or better of my two choices. I've never heard the Bifrost though its received GREAT reviews, but I can tell you that the Gungnir sounded better to me than more expensive DAC's (twice as expensive). Good luck with whatever you decide.


----------



## kothganesh

FWIW, I have the Bifrost Uber and the Gungnir. To my ears, the Uber actually sounds a little more grainy than the Gungnir. The latter is my DAC at home and the former is what I use at work (due to smaller footprint). Gungnir delivers a relatively more forceful lower end extension and as Solude pointed out somewhere, is ideally suited to pair with the Mjolnir amp. But I also use the Gungnir SE with the HD 800 and the BH Crack amp or the Schiit Vali (both of which are SE). No issues there at all.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Personally, I found the Bifrost Uber to sound very much like what I remembered the first gen Gungnir's SE output to sound like. Neither DAC is particularly detailed or bright, but they're quite musical and non-fatiguing.
  
 Take this for what it's worth, since it's based on audio memory (I still own the Bifrost Uber, but not the Gungnir and did not have them at the same time).


----------



## Solude

Pretty much comes down to how much lower jitter, tighter timing and clean supply means to you.  To me it's a no brainer if money is a non issue.  Or to put it in Schiit terms, the Bifrost runs in "buy better gear" mode all the time while the Gungnir only drops down to that if the light comes on.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

solude said:


> Pretty much comes down to how much lower jitter, tighter timing and clean supply means to you.  To me it's a no brainer if money is a non issue.  Or to put it in Schiit terms, the Bifrost runs in "buy better gear" mode all the time while the Gungnir only drops down to that if the light comes on.


 
  
 Agreed. If it were my money -- and it was, when it came time to buy another Schiit DAC -- the differences were small enough to _not_ warrant the extra $$$. Others may disagree.


----------



## bisonthecruiser

Pretty sold on running this with Equator D8 speakers using XLR via USB on my computer. Also want to use my turntable (RCA) to push it through the DAC. What's the best method to do this since the Gungnir RCA aren't input?
  
 Cheers.


----------



## Defiant00

bisonthecruiser said:


> Pretty sold on running this with Equator D8 speakers using XLR via USB on my computer. Also want to use my turntable (RCA) to push it through the DAC. What's the best method to do this since the Gungnir RCA aren't input?
> 
> Cheers.


 
  
 Your turntable is already analog, so no reason to jump through extra hoops to use it with the Gungnir. If  you really want to though, you'd need an ADC to convert your turntable's output to digital, then run that into the Gungnir.
  
 The more typical scenario would be to just keep it analog and hook it up to your phono preamp and then your powered speakers or amp.


----------



## bisonthecruiser

defiant00 said:


> Your turntable is already analog, so no reason to jump through extra hoops to use it with the Gungnir. If  you really want to though, you'd need an ADC to convert your turntable's output to digital, then run that into the Gungnir.
> 
> The more typical scenario would be to just keep it analog and hook it up to your phono preamp and then your powered speakers or amp.


 
 Cheers. Was just hoping to run my PC and my Turntable off the same set of speakers. Thanks for setting me straight!


----------



## Defiant00

bisonthecruiser said:


> Cheers. Was just hoping to run my PC and my Turntable off the same set of speakers. Thanks for setting me straight!


 
  
 Well, if you just want to do that it should be pretty easy, all you need is an input switcher. You can then hook up, for example, Gungnir to input 1 and your TT to input 2 (or the output from your phono preamp), and the output to your speakers.
  
 A cheap switch would probably run you $10; the closest Schiit sells is the SYS, which is also a passive volume control, but is only for unbalanced connectors.


----------



## StefanJK

How hot does your Gungnir get?  With all the discussion about how hot the Ragnarok gets, I've noticed that my Gungnir gets as least as hot as Ragnarok or Mjolnir.  I assume this is normal...but somehow it never gets mentioned, with all the 'hot' amp talk.  I have Gunnir on my disktop under the amp, but there's lot of free airflow.


----------



## KLJTech

Mine gets pretty warm while sitting atop a desk with an Asgard 2 sitting on it. They're sitting out in the open will cool air all around them and most of the time the A2 is set on Low Gain. I think most Schiit gear runs pretty warm...I don't trust audio gear that stays cool to the touch.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Mine gets only slightly warm only after some extensive use (it is actually cool to the touch now), but I have my Lyr and Gungnir sitting on each side of my computer monitor. Perhaps stacking the amp on the Gungnir is making it hotter.
  
 Edit: Also, I am not running balanced. I wonder if using the balanced output would further accentuate its heat output.


----------



## StefanJK

liu junyuan said:


> Edit: Also, I am not running balanced. I wonder if using the balanced output would further accentuate its heat output.


 
 I'm running balanced.  I can't imagine that matters.  Not radiating the heat off the top must be the main difference.   The amp is on the top and can radiate heat up.


----------



## hodgjy

Does anyone here use the Pure i20 iPod dock to feed the Gungnir?  If so, does it run in "buy better gear mode" or the better alternative? In other words, how good is the timing the i20 sends to the DAC?


----------



## smileallways

Dear Head-Fi Gurus,
        I have Schitt Gungnir with USB input that works well with the Windows XP PC and foobar2000 software that I have. I have recently bought a Lenovo 64 bit I3 Flex 15.2 laptop.  This laptop does not recognize the Schitt Gungnir from the foobar after I install the Schitt USB drivers.  Schitt Technical support recommended getting external powered USB Hub. Will the Wyrd device help in this case?  Any advice is appreciated.
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Puurple

I'm thinking since tech support said it would work that's the way I would go. You can always return it if it doesn't work. However I feel like it makes logical sense. The Gungnir is their top DAC but I don't see the difference between the desktops USB and the laptops USB unless it's 1.0 if that's the case then you need a motherboard that supports usb 2.0 or 3.0 It also could be a problem with foobar. Try messing around with different usb ports on the laptop if you haven't already and if all fails just try out the Wyrd you can always take it back.
  
 How do you like the Gungnir? I'm about to purchase some T200c's and will need a DAC because my audio source is trash coming from my computer. Not sure if I would be fine with just the Modi or not. Not really looking at the Biofrost because after adding the upgrades to it its close in price to the Gungnir and I would really appreciate the balanced XLR ports as balanced is better than unbalanced and my speakers will support it. Plus an additional out for a sub that I may get in the future.


----------



## kothganesh

puurple said:


> I'm thinking since tech support said it would work that's the way I would go. You can always return it if it doesn't work. However I feel like it makes logical sense. The Gungnir is their top DAC but I don't see the difference between the desktops USB and the laptops USB unless it's 1.0 if that's the case then you need a motherboard that supports usb 2.0 or 3.0 It also could be a problem with foobar. Try messing around with different usb ports on the laptop if you haven't already and if all fails just try out the Wyrd you can always take it back.
> 
> How do you like the Gungnir? I'm about to purchase some T200c's and will need a DAC because my audio source is trash coming from my computer. Not sure if I would be fine with just the Modi or not. *Not really looking at the Bifrost because after adding the upgrades to it its close in price to the Gungnir and I would really appreciate the balanced XLR ports as balanced is better than unbalanced and my speakers will support it. Plus an additional out for a sub that I may get in the future.*


 
 Exactly why you should get the Gungnir. IME, the Bifrost Uber is a little grainer than the Gungnir as well.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

kothganesh said:


> Exactly why you should get the Gungnir. IME, the Bifrost Uber is a little grainer than the Gungnir as well.




Just get the Gungnir. My logic for skipping over the Uberfrost was similar to yours, and I have so far been quite pleased with its sound, an upgrade very noticeable coming from the Modi.


----------



## Puurple

Finally meeting some people helping me out thank you so much @kothganesh and @Liu Junyuan going with the gungnir definitely.


----------



## kothganesh

puurple said:


> Finally meeting some people helping me out thank you so much @kothganesh and @Liu Junyuan going with the gungnir definitely.


 

 Any time. While you're doing the order, consider getting the Wyrd as well. It makes a slight difference to the SQ (for the better of course).


----------



## hodgjy

It seems as if my post somehow got lost...I've been noticing some glitches lately. If it still appears to you, I apologize for double posting.
  
 Does anyone here use the Pure i20 iPod dock to feed the Gungnir?  If so, does it run in "buy better gear mode" or the better alternative? In other words, how good is the timing the i20 sends to the DAC?


----------



## BobG55

Ok my fellow Head-fiers I dearly need your help/input because I'm not familiar with all of the DAC differences so please help me out.
  
 I have a Teac PD-H600 CD player with a built in DAC.  I will paste the specifications below; therefore my question is :  based on the specs is the built in DAC as good as a Schiit Gungnir or even a Bifrost Uber or is it worth getting one of the two Schiit DACs.
  
 The DAC is a *Burr Brown PCM1796 D/A converter, a 192kHz/24-bit component*

*Compatible Discs: CD-DA, CD-R/RW, MP3, WMA*
*Frequency Response: 20Hz - 20,000Hz (±0.5dB)*
*Total Harmonic Distortion: Less than 0.003% (1kHz)*
*Signal-to-Noise Ratio: more than 110dB (1kHz, 0dB, A weight)*
*D/A Converter: 24bit/192kHz Delta-sigma (PCM1796)*
*Oversampling Rate: 8-times*

 *Would even the Bifrost Uber DAC outperform the Burr Brown built-in DAC in my CD player ?*
  
 Thanks.


----------



## totacelasi

hodgjy said:


> It seems as if my post somehow got lost...I've been noticing some glitches lately. If it still appears to you, I apologize for double posting.
> 
> Does anyone here use the Pure i20 iPod dock to feed the Gungnir?  If so, does it run in "buy better gear mode" or the better alternative? In other words, how good is the timing the i20 sends to the DAC?


 

 It is not good enough, the sound is better from my macbook pro than pure I20. The sound with pure as transport is a bit bright and mids are recessed. Also, the sound is different if you use ipod nano (gen 4), iphone 4, or iphone 4s. Don't ask me why ... sorry for my english.


----------



## Puurple

It is not as good as the Biofrost/Biofrost Uber/Gungnir if I were you I would get the Biofrost Uber unless you plan on using balanced XLR connections. Then get the Gungnir. The best part about buying audio equipment is that it last a long time and with Schiits upper end DACs theyre upgradeable. Plus the DAC is somewhat portable. Not the carry it with you while going for a run for your iPhone and IEMs but portable as in not built into the CD player so you can use it on multiple devices.
 But yes from what I read on the Biofrost Uber and Gungnir they are the equivalent to DACs 3 times their price. By the way the Biofrost Uber is basically the same thing as the gungnir without the XLR outputs. And theres some other small things too im not sure. Like power output


----------



## hodgjy

totacelasi said:


> It is not good enough, the sound is better from my macbook pro than pure I20. The sound with pure as transport is a bit bright and mids are recessed. Also, the sound is different if you use ipod nano (gen 4), iphone 4, or iphone 4s. Don't ask me why ... sorry for my english.


 
  
 Thanks for the info.  When outputting the i20 into the Gungnir, is it running in VCXO mode or VCO mode?


----------



## m50man

Could I use the Gungnir DAC with my laptop through a simple usb plug?  
  
 I have been considering buying the Wa7 Fireflies amp/dac combo by Woo Audio but I am not sure if the quality will be that great (from the DAC).  Would you guys recommend instead going with the Gungnir + amp?  I am using AKG K712 pro's


----------



## flailure

m50man said:


> Could I use the Gungnir DAC with my laptop through a simple usb plug?
> 
> I have been considering buying the Wa7 Fireflies amp/dac combo by Woo Audio but I am not sure if the quality will be that great (from the DAC).  Would you guys recommend instead going with the Gungnir + amp?  I am using AKG K712 pro's




The only reason I would buy the wa7 would be for an all in one solution, it's dac is not as bad as people say it is. And what is the point of an aesthetically pleasing and space saving solution if you add redundant items to it


----------



## m50man

flailure said:


> The only reason I would buy the wa7 would be for an all in one solution, it's dac is not as bad as people say it is. And what is the point of an aesthetically pleasing and space saving solution if you add redundant items to it


 
 So the DAC on the Gungnir would definitely be better than the Wa7 for the AKG K712 pro's then you think?  Also, would I be able to use it with a simple usb output from my computer? Just trying to figure out how to use this, looks like tons of inputs and outputs and I am new to this stuff.  A recommendation for an amp to pair with the Gungnir would also be appreciated.  Mjolnir is intriguing because it is solid state but I have no experience with tube amps


----------



## totacelasi

hodgjy said:


> Thanks for the info.  When outputting the i20 into the Gungnir, is it running in VCXO mode or VCO mode?


 
 sorry for the delay, VCXO mode.


----------



## hodgjy

totacelasi said:


> sorry for the delay, VCXO mode.


 
  
 Excellent. Thanks for the information!


----------



## amnesiac75

Tonight I unplugged my gungnir for the first time in 7 months and hooked my modi back up just to see if the modi was a "good enough" dac and maybe I should just sell the gungnir but was very surprised how much sound quality I lost using the modi. The modi was my only dac for over a year I used it with the magni for over 200 hours and the vali for 150+ hours and always thought it sounded good but now I think I would just as soon go back to plugging straight out of my iPod touch for the convenience rather than go back to the modi. The modi is a great $99 dac it's just to me the point of a desktop rig it to be clearly better than a DAP not just a little better in other words the gungnir is here to stay.


----------



## joebobbilly

Yea, I could see how that would be the case. I had done some A/B comparisons when I had upgraded from my Fiio E09K/E17 to the balanced Schiit stack. I made a point or feeding both the E09K and Mjolnir with the same DAC (either E17 or Gungnir) and the sound signature difference was quite noticeable. Switching amps from E09K to Mjolnir gave more authority to the sound, more control and a backer blackground (along with the soundstage/imaging improvement of going balanced). However, in terms of just tonal signature and detailing... the DAC definitely made a bigger difference to my ears.


----------



## m50man

*Any suggestions on the best amp to pair with the Gungnir??  *
  
 Right now I am looking at the Lyr 2 - my heart was set on the Mjolnir, but I am unable to use with my AKG K712 Pro's as those headphones are unbalanced, they just use a regular headphone jack....
  
 I have a couple concerns with the Lyr 2 - it isn't solid state.  I don't like the fact that you have to change the tubes, and I have no idea how to do this.  I also am concerned with the sound quality of the Lyr 2 - I hear it is noticeably a step down from the Mjlonir. 
  
 I don't mind spending around $1,000 for a top quality amp to use with my Gungnir. Most important things to me are soundstage, audio quality (detail retrieval, airiness, etc), but a strong low end is also extremely important to me...


----------



## Solude

Burson Soloist or Schiit Asgard 2.


----------



## joebobbilly

Yea, an Asgard 2 should give you a nice clean sound if you're not into rolling (trying various) tubes.
  
 Lyr though is no slouch at all and it is a wonderful amp. It gives the flexibility of being able to roll tubes to fine-tune your sound signature. Depending on what tubes you roll in... it can sound very clean, or buttery, etc. Don't be afraid of tubes... they are easy to remove and swap (basically they just plug in via some pins) and there are plenty of people here who could advise you on how to do it and what tubes are good to try. Tubes do need to be changed eventually, but they usually last thousands of hours.
  
 I would seriously recommend you give both a listen if possible (via a meet or a local store).


----------



## m50man

I think I've settled on the Gungnir DAC and the Lyr 2 for my amp.  I realize I could just go with the 2nd gen Bifrost for my DAC, but I want to be futureproof.  I may have an amp or headphones in the future that use balanced so the Gungnir provides me with that flexibility.
  
 Wondering though if there is some kind of EQ system (on the interface on the computer perhaps) where you can adjust the sound settings, for instance if you wanted to add more bass or treble to the setup


----------



## joebobbilly

I'm personally not a believer of EQing... tube rolling would be the way I would rather do it.
  
 However, if you must... you can do it through your media player. The resulting sound quality will then be dependent on how good your media player software is. I'd recommend JRiver or Foobar2000 as they seem to be the most trusted media players around here.


----------



## m50man

joebobbilly said:


> I'm personally not a believer of EQing... tube rolling would be the way I would rather do it.
> 
> However, if you must... you can do it through your media player. The resulting sound quality will then be dependent on how good your media player software is. I'd recommend JRiver or Foobar2000 as they seem to be the most trusted media players around here.


 
 Thank you.  I agree with your first statement, just wanted to see my options.  Will look into those media players as well. thanks!


----------



## m50man

I was reading an old Gungnir thread where they mentioned A V-link 92 and how much it improved the Gungnir performance.  Anyone know what that is and what it's purpose is ?


----------



## Solude

VLink 192 is a XMOS based usb to spdif converter.  Basically replaces the internal usb input.  Money wasted with the v2 usb card Schiit now has.


----------



## m50man

How big is the difference in sound quality between the Gungnir and the Bifrost Uber with gen 2 USB upgrades?
  
 I have ordered myself a Lyr 2 and a Gungnir, but I've waited 3 weeks now and there is no end in sight for the wait on the Gungnir.  I just spoke with Schiit customer service about switching the Gungnir for a Bifrost with the upgrades I listed above.  
  
 At this point in time, I do not have a balanced amp nor balanced headphones so I am wondering if I would be pretty much just as good with the Bifrost (saving myself around 300 as well).  Primarily going to use via USB.  I did like how the Gungnir provided me options in case I wanted to upgrade to balanced in the future, but it really isn't necessary at this moment.  Does the Gungnir provide noticeably better separation, sound staging, detail retrieval etc?
  
 By the time I may need balanced, they may have a new DAC entirely or there might be something better.
  
 So what's the verdict on the Bifrost 2nd gen usb + uber analog upgrade compared with the Gungnir (2nd gen usb) with a Lyr 2???  Is it worth the extra $ and wait??


----------



## madwolfa

I think that Gungnir would make the most sense in pair with similarly balanced Mjolnir. With Lyr 2 you'd be 100% fine using Bifrost.


----------



## Solude

m50man said:


> How big is the difference in sound quality between the Gungnir and the Bifrost Uber with gen 2 USB upgrades?
> 
> Does the Gungnir provide noticeably better separation, sound staging, detail retrieval etc?


 
  
 Think PS Audio PWD, good dac, to PS Audio PWD2, world class.  In that case only the digital board changes.  In Schiit's case, while sharing an analog section is important, not sharing a power supply or digital section is also important.  In cars it would be like comparing the Camaro and Corvette in the years they shared an engine and transmission.  Up to you whether the better performance is worth it for you.  It is for me.


----------



## m50man

solude said:


> Think PS Audio PWD, good dac, to PS Audio PWD2, world class.  In that case only the digital board changes.  In Schiit's case, while sharing an analog section is important, not sharing a power supply or digital section is also important.  In cars it would be like comparing the Camaro and Corvette in the years they shared an engine and transmission.  Up to you whether the better performance is worth it for you.  It is for me.


 
 So using the fully upgraded Gungnir in non-balanced mode is still better than the Bifrost?  IE: A fully upgraded Gungnir in non-balanced mode isn't exactly the same as a Bifrost right?  Because if it is the EXACT same, I may just go with the Bifrost (since I am not using balanced amp or headphones)


----------



## madwolfa

m50man said:


> So using the fully upgraded Gungnir in non-balanced mode is still better than the Bifrost?  IE: A fully upgraded Gungnir in non-balanced mode isn't exactly the same as a Bifrost right?  Because if it is the EXACT same, I may just go with the Bifrost (since I am not using balanced amp or headphones)


 
  
 With Lyr 2 it's kinda pointless to go with Gungnir. They also don't stack nicely.


----------



## Defiant00

m50man said:


> So using the fully upgraded Gungnir in non-balanced mode is still better than the Bifrost?  IE: A fully upgraded Gungnir in non-balanced mode isn't exactly the same as a Bifrost right?  Because if it is the EXACT same, I may just go with the Bifrost (since I am not using balanced amp or headphones)


 
  
 Correct, Gungnir using either of its outputs is still better than Bifrost.


----------



## m50man

defiant00 said:


> Correct, Gungnir using either of its outputs is still better than Bifrost.


 
 I got the same response from the people at Schiit too - who seem like very honest people but of course would rather have me buy the Gungnir... but they do seem trustworthy judging from their no nonsense description of their products.  Someone at tech support at Schiit sent me an e-mail and said: Gungnir murders Bifrost on every system. If you have the space and budget it is a no brainer".
  
 Thanks for your help peoples.


----------



## KLJTech

The Gungnir was impressive enough in my system that it replaced my Bryston BDA-1 which is a good bit more expensive than the Gungnir. This isn't to say that you wouldn't be very pleased with the Bifrost Uber as I've only heard and read great things about it. Good luck with whatever you decide. 
  
 By the way, I was told that "the Gungnir murders Bifrost" as well but not the "in/on every system" part. I did ask for an opinion and was given one...so nothing wrong with that as I'm VERY pleased with the Gungnir.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

m50man said:


> So using the fully upgraded Gungnir in non-balanced mode is still better than the Bifrost?  IE: A fully upgraded Gungnir in non-balanced mode isn't exactly the same as a Bifrost right?  Because if it is the EXACT same, I may just go with the Bifrost (since I am not using balanced amp or headphones)




Please check out Purrin's first post in his comparison thread. Just search his name if you cant find it. He clearly states that that the upgraded Gungnir is superior to the Uberfrost even on single-ended output. He had five others with confirming the comparison. Whether you think it is worth the extra money is up to you. I can see a good argument for both sides. You could save money and buy yourself another pair of midfi headphones. 

I decided to buy the Gungnir after much deliberation. I have a Lyr and could care less about an even stack as I have each piece on either side of my monitor. I am extremely satisfied with its performance so far, but I could see myself happy with the Uberfrost as well. One thing that is certain is that it has a very strong resale value on these forums if you decide to upgrade later.


----------



## m50man

liu junyuan said:


> Please check out Purrin's first post in his comparison thread. Just search his name if you cant find it. He clearly states that that the upgraded Gungnir is superior to the Uberfrost even on single-ended output. He had five others with confirming the comparison. Whether you think it is worth the extra money is up to you. I can see a good argument for both sides. You could save money and buy yourself another pair of midfi headphones.
> 
> I decided to buy the Gungnir after much deliberation. I have a Lyr and could care less about an even stack as I have each piece on either side of my monitor. I am extremely satisfied with its performance so far, but I could see myself happy with the Uberfrost as well. One thing that is certain is that it has a very strong resale value on these forums if you decide to upgrade later.


 
   I've decided to stick with the Gungnir.  Will be using with a Lyr 2. Can't wait till the end of the month.


----------



## amnesiac75

Monoprice monitor stand less than 25 bucks it made stacking the smaller size amp on top of the gungnir much easier for me and it keeps the amp cooler since the gungnir does get a little warm after a couple of hours. Also don't regret the extra 330 dollars for the gungnir over the bifrost I did that for a few months and even made a few post about it but after the dust has settled I'm happy I went for the better dac.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

amnesiac75 said:


> Monoprice monitor stand less than 25 bucks it made stacking the smaller size amp on top of the gungnir much easier for me and it keeps the amp cooler since the gungnir does get a little warm after a couple of hours. Also don't regret the extra 330 dollars for the gungnir over the bifrost I did that for a few months and even made a few post about it but after the dust has settled I'm happy I went for the better dac.


 

 Wow, that's really nice looking. Thanks.


----------



## Byrnie

m50man said:


> So using the fully upgraded Gungnir in non-balanced mode is still better than the Bifrost?  IE: A fully upgraded Gungnir in non-balanced mode isn't exactly the same as a Bifrost right?  Because if it is the EXACT same, I may just go with the Bifrost (since I am not using balanced amp or headphones)



Yes, it would yield you an increase in SQ and also provide you with many more outs in case you want to hook up other amps in the future or a pair of studio monitors.


----------



## kcazbarach

so I read that the gungnir has simultaenous outputs.
  
 Does this mean I can use two amps at the same time with it?
  
  
  
 i.e. like one for me and one for my friend to test out another amp (we'd be hearing the same audio signal though I suspect right?)
  
 ex: Gungnir---->vali>>>headphone
  
 & (at the same time)
  
 Gungnir---->lyr2-->headphone
  
  
 Thanks for the help


----------



## kothganesh

^.. that is correct. Makes it easy to compare headphones.


----------



## kodger

I have the balanced output to my desk monitors and unbalanced to my Vali 2 and I can hear both at the same time


----------



## If6was9

I already know that I am about to ask a question unlikely, if not impossible,
are looking for a dac, that sounds simply better of the my my old and poor DVD player, a *Sony DVP-S715*,
as it may seem impossible, but I have already tried two dac (a iFi Micro iDSD, and now a Bifrost),
but still my old dvd player sounds better: more music, liquid, full-bodied, round, more airy, more analog,
another particular,the beating of the piano keys with DVD player, feels the finger touch the key, even in pianissimo, the little touch of the key is fuller bodied,
with Bifrost instead seems a slight ticking, without presence,
always with DVD player, the voices seem to come from the mouth and chest, with the Bifrost instead, seem to come from the mouth to the nose,
and overall with DVD player, there is a most live event, three-dimensional and soul, characteristics that are lost with the other two DAC.
 
Now I wanted to try to take the Gungnir, but I can not listen to it anywhere, and here the question/request impossible:
There is someone here who as at home the old Sony Dvd player DVP-S715 ?
and maybe can make comparison with Gungnir?
 
or however, is it possible that all these features come out with Gungnir compared to Bifrost?
 
Thanks to all
 
 
P.s.
Sorry for my bad English


----------



## Solude

If you love the sound of older players then hold onto your current Sony.  Newer, good, models are more precise, have lower jitter, tighter timing and things that comes along as technology improves.  But not everyone likes pinpoint imaging or starting and stopping on a dime.  I do, but you seem to favour a full round sound.  While the Gungnir is quite a bit warmer than my PWD2, compared to the Sony it's going to be razor sharp.


----------



## If6was9

solude said:


> If you love the sound of older players then hold onto your current Sony.  Newer, good, models are more precise, have lower jitter, tighter timing and things that comes along as technology improves.  But not everyone likes pinpoint imaging or starting and stopping on a dime.  I do, but you seem to favour a full round sound.  While the Gungnir is quite a bit warmer than my PWD2, compared to the Sony it's going to be razor sharp.




I do not know why, but to me, it seems that with these dac, he's talking about a bit of "fried air", a few years ago, before the advent of dac, a player who played as dac I've heard so far, it was simply a player to throw.

any other player I've heard so far, he has played better than my old Sony, instead with dac, I could not find one that came near to my Sony.

*But someone here has ever tried to compare their dac with a whatever old player?*

I can not believe we got to this point, here is not a matter of taste, here we are distorting reality.

but it is possible, that there is no a dac around $1000 which is as close to the sound of an old and common DVD player from $200 ?


Sorry for my bad English


----------



## Erukian

if6was9 said:


> but it is possible, that there is no a dac around $1000 which is as close to the sound of an old and common DVD player from $200 ?


 
  
 Could it be that newer DAC's resolve more information from the digital domain and can preserve it when converting to analog?
  
 This is a double edged sword IMHO, you get more detail which is a pro, but you hear all the faults that the audio engineer might of missed on his studio monitors.
  
 I relate it to people preferring the pleasing distortion that tube amplifiers provide. Less detail, less clean, but it emotionally involves them more because they're not distracted by a less than perfect mix.
  
 Just my 2c.


----------



## If6was9

erukian said:


> Could it be that newer DAC's resolve more information from the digital domain and can preserve it when converting to analog?
> 
> This is a double edged sword IMHO, you get more detail which is a pro, but you hear all the faults that the audio engineer might of missed on his studio monitors.
> 
> ...




I do not know, but now I'm listening a MSB Link III of my friend, side by side to the Bifrost, is another planet, with the MSB the scene opens dramatically, seems to listen to multichannel, you are surrounded by sound.
Tell me that the Gungnir sounds very best of Bifrost, because I would buy, 
with Gungnir, you can reach the wide stage, the analog sound and liquidity of the MSB ?

Tell me yes please.


Sorry for my bad English


----------



## Solude

The Gungnir will sound nothing like the L3.  Today's DACs just don't sound like those of yesteryear.  Good news is you can buy those old DACs on AudioGon pretty much all day.  You could go even deeper into that time period with the likes of Adcom, Classe or Meridian models that are great examples of the technology at the time.


----------



## joyway

Hi, all, I have a question about usb version . If the computer reports " schiit usb interface" , is it gen1 or gen 2? Schiit audio told me that the computer should report " schiit usb audio device". I'm not sure. Thank you.


----------



## KLJTech

I haven't used the USB Gen 1 version, but my Gen 2 Gungnir reads "Schiit USB Audio Device" and "C-Media Inc" underneath that on a Windows 7 x64 machine. Hope that helps.


----------



## joyway

Hi, KLJTech, thank you for your reply. It seems that "schiit usb interface" should be gen 1.


----------



## conquerator2

I am considering pulling the trigger... To exchange it for my NFB7


----------



## TK277

kljtech said:


> I haven't used the USB Gen 1 version, but my Gen 2 Gungnir reads "Schiit USB Audio Device" and "C-Media Inc" underneath that on a Windows 7 x64 machine. Hope that helps.


 
 My mac says something equivalent on my Gen 2. "Speaker-Schiit USB Audio Device."


----------



## conquerator2

I'll be joining this party very soon. Just ordered a Gungnir myself. Can't wait


----------



## Liu Junyuan

conquerator2 said:


> I'll be joining this party very soon. Just ordered a Gungnir myself. Can't wait




Congrats. What DAC are you using now?


----------



## conquerator2

liu junyuan said:


> Congrats. What DAC are you using now?


 
 The Audio-gd NFB-7, which I just sold


----------



## Liu Junyuan

conquerator2 said:


> The Audio-gd NFB-7, which I just sold




Oh okay. I would be interested in hearing how you compare this to the A-GD if you dont mind.


----------



## conquerator2

liu junyuan said:


> Oh okay. I would be interested in hearing how you compare this to the A-GD if you dont mind.


 
 I intend to. I'll be obviously going by auditory memory but I'll do my best


----------



## grokit

Just to clarify, gen 2 usb is xmos and gen 1 is not? I'm using an xmos box but don't like using the gungnir's coaxial input, because physically it doesn't seem secured to the chassis very well compared to the others. I just found a bluejeans rca/bnc cable that I will probably switch out with my rca/rca cable soon, it probably won't make an audible difference unless my rca/rca isn't actually 75 ohm. But it will free up the rca port for whatever that's worth. I'm an early gen 1 owner and have always been very pleased with the audio performance of my gungnir. My only complaint ever has been regarding the lack of an aes/ebu (xlr) input and now I've noticed this rca input could be more physically robust, but these are very minor issues that do not detract from the overall value and performance of the gungnir, which is damn near _universally regarded_ as fantastic. And with this crowd, that's really saying something!


----------



## Solude

Gen2 is the same company as Gen1 but their newer mode.  CMedia I believe, not XMOS.  From their site...
  
* Featuring the C-Media CM6631A receiver and additional isolation and filtering, *


----------



## JackarlTwo

Has anyone used this with Fostex TH900 (and with what amp)? Looking to upgrade soon, and this seem to be a really good DAC for under 1k.


----------



## kothganesh

jackarltwo said:


> Has anyone used this with Fostex TH900 (and with what amp)? Looking to upgrade soon, and this seem to be a really good DAC for under 1k.


 

 Used the TH 900 with the Gungnir/Mjolnir for over a year. Put succinctly, an explosive combination all round. I listen to rock only and this was a very very good combination.


----------



## lele0108

Anybody looking to sell their Gungnir? Looking to purchase one to pair with my Mjolnir collecting dust on my table.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

lele0108 said:


> Anybody looking to sell their Gungnir? Looking to purchase one to pair with my Mjolnir collecting dust on my table.




Why is the Mjolnir collecting dust? Just curious...


----------



## lele0108

liu junyuan said:


> Why is the Mjolnir collecting dust? Just curious...


 
 I sold my old DAC but can't find a Gungnir to purchase so there's no audio source. Also my Audeze Balanced cable didn't come yet.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

lele0108 said:


> I sold my old DAC but can't find a Gungnir to purchase so there's no audio source. Also my Audeze Balanced cable didn't come yet.




Yeah, they do not go used very often...I think Schiit's primary specialty is DACs to be honest.


----------



## notsimar

liu junyuan said:


> Yeah, they do not go used very often...I think Schiit's primary specialty is DACs to be honest.


 
 What makes you say that?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

liu junyuan said:


> Yeah, they do not go used very often...I think Schiit's primary specialty is DACs to be honest.




Huh I've always thoughts their amps were on par with the dacs, I mean they are the only ones really utilizing circloton topology to the consumer market atm


----------



## Solude

dailydoseofdaly said:


> I mean they are the only ones really utilizing circloton topology to the consumer market atm


 
  
 Only SOLID STATE circlotron.  But yes the amps and dacs are on par with each other.  Which is not to say that you will like the signature.


----------



## notsimar

solude said:


> Only SOLID STATE circlotron.  But yes the amps and dacs are on par with each other.  Which is not to say that you will like the signature.


 
  
 Well you didn't


----------



## Solude

Didn't what?
  
 The Gungnir is awesome with the Mjolnir.  They balance each other out... FOR ME.  Some people will love the darkness of the Gungnir or the brightness of the Mjolnir.  Hell some people even like doubling up and using the Mjolnir with the HD800


----------



## notsimar

didn't endup with the gungnir


----------



## Liu Junyuan

It is just a hunch of mine I have had for a while. I do not claim to have experienced most of Schiit's offerings. I am, however, very familiar with my Lyr. I do like it a great deal, but when I read about some saying they found their Schiit amp too aggressive, I do understand what they are talking about. I actually like it most of the time, but on a few recordings its almost like the amp is hitting my Senns with a sledge hammer. I really do want to try out the Asgard and especially the Valhalla though. 

By contrast, I absolutely love my Gungnir without any exception. Since it is a smoother and more dynamic Bifrost Uber, I can conclude the Gungnir's nearest sibling is probably great too. My Modi was fantastic for the year I had it, preferring it to the ODAC. Reading impressions about the upcoming Yggdrasil that make it sound like the best DAC below $10k also doesn't mitigate the force of my hypothosis. 

In other words, I just have a hunch (without knowing for certain) that Schiit does DACs really really well and that they do amps really well (with exceptions). Another point to consider is how rare one finds their DACs for sale in comparison with their amps. Again, I like their amps that I have heard a lot, so please dont get the wrong idea. I just think that perhaps their primary specialty is in their DAC department, based on my experience with their DACs and amps I have heard and the impressions I have read that correspond with some of my own in certain instances. I really want to try out their new uber lineup though. And It is very possible I will get a Val 2 if I dont get a Crack for my HD-650s somewhere down the road. 

Hope I didnt offend anyone.


----------



## David Aldrich

I picked up a Gungnir on Friday, loving this thing. It replaced a HRT Music Streamer HD which developed a nasty habit of losing it's connection to my computer when asleep forcing a physical power cycle which annoyed me to the point of replacing it.
  
 I'm glad I did, the Gungnir is an excellent DAC, I have yet to take advantage of the balanced output but my next amp will definitely be a balanced amp, either a Mjolnir or a Ragnarok most likely. I lean towards the Ragnarok as I prefer it to the Mjolnir sound signature despite the doubled cost.
  
 After a couple of years of liking Schiit I'm finally a customer.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

david aldrich said:


> I picked up a Gungnir on Friday, loving this thing. It replaced a HRT Music Streamer HD which developed a nasty habit of losing it's connection to my computer when asleep forcing a physical power cycle which annoyed me to the point of replacing it.
> 
> I'm glad I did, the Gungnir is an excellent DAC, I have yet to take advantage of the balanced output but my next amp will definitely be a balanced amp, either a Mjolnir or a Ragnarok most likely. I lean towards the Ragnarok as I prefer it to the Mjolnir sound signature despite the doubled cost.
> 
> After a couple of years of liking Schiit I'm finally a customer.




Thanks for reminding me to ask this: I am also currently limited to single ended output and am wondering what I am missing by not using the balanced output.


----------



## David Aldrich

Probably not a whole heck of a lot. However it certainly doesn't hurt anything.


----------



## conquerator2

Some people say there's a difference between SE and BAL, some say there isn't. No big deal I think as it is pretty small if any. It also depends on the amplifier. If it is SE only, then that is running to its full potential, if it is BAL then once should use BAL. I believe Gung does BAL -> SE conversion.
 The difference between Bifrost Uber and Gungnir is much bigger than Gung SE vs Gung BAL, for example. If there's a difference.


----------



## KLJTech

I'm running the Gungnir single ended rather than balanced and it STILL beat out the Bryston DAC (and the Bryston is very good) in my system. I wouldn't worry about it at all, if your system can be run with all balanced cables then give it a try and see which way YOU prefer it, if not, don't worry about it. Enjoy your music and try to forget about the gear, easier said than done I know, but too much focus on the gear (once you have your system together) can steal some of that enjoyment you'd be having with your music and its supposed to be about the music. Go online and order yourself a new album, CD or High-Rez download and enjoy the music. 
 Good luck!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

When my rig was Gungnir>Mjolnir>lcd3 a little while back I swapped out the bal interconnects for se out of curiosity. The changes where not super obvious. If I was to do a blind test I don't think I would fair too well. Like KLJTech was saying, how your hooked up to your amp shouldn't have bearing on your musical enjoyment.


----------



## hodgjy

My amp outputs dual mono into a single 1/4" jack, but it is capable of receiving either a balanced or unbalanced signal.  Currently, my DAC is the Bifrost Uber, and since I recently picked up the LCD-2.2F, the itch to upgrade my DAC has arisen.  I'm trying to squash that temptation.
  
 My question is: will the Gungnir be a noticeable upgrade over the Bifrost?  Also, would I receive any benefit of using the balanced connections from the Gungnir over the SE outputs since my amp converts to dual mono output?
  
 I'm not too familiar with the Gungnir sound and the conversion process of dual mono.


----------



## Solude

Sounds like your amp just has XLR inputs for convenience and that only the + taps are used internally.  What is it?
  
 And yes the Gungnir is better than the Bifrost Uber.


----------



## hodgjy

solude said:


> Sounds like your amp just has XLR inputs for convenience and that only the + taps are used internally.  What is it?
> 
> And yes the Gungnir is better than the Bifrost Uber.


 
  
 TEAC HA-501.  Dual mono.


----------



## Solude

Dual mono is pure marketing is this case and yes internally it is single ended.  It is dual mono in the same way every two channel amp that shares a pot and power supply is which is to say... not.


----------



## hodgjy

solude said:


> Dual mono is pure marketing is this case and yes internally it is single ended.  It is dual mono in the same way every two channel amp that shares a pot and power supply is which is to say... not.


 
  
 I didn't get it because it was labeled as dual mono.  I got it because it sounds awesome.  Great pair with the LCD-2.2F.


----------



## Solude

Didn't say it didn't.


----------



## hodgjy

solude said:


> Didn't say it didn't.


 
 I know. Sometimes meanings are hard to convey over messages. I knew it wasn't "true" dual mono since it didn't have two separate power supplies.


----------



## fishski13

i've owned my Gung now for nearly a year. i recently had a Wyrd on loan and decided to buy one yesterday. fed via a newer Lenovo laptop with W8.1, i found my rig to be more resolving and detailed. messing around with different amps and HPs, this definitely falls under the category of "YMMV".


----------



## bwmarrin

Just moving a discussion here, since it seems more appropriate.  I've been discussing with conquerator2 rather it's "normal" for the Gungnir DAC to generate any static noise into an amp at 80-100% volume when no music is playing.  In my example, connecting my new Gungnir > Lyr 2 > HE-500 headphones I'm getting static/hiss/noise at about 65% volume and it progressively gets worse all the way up to 100% volume.   Maybe members of this thread would have an idea if that's at all normal, or not.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip/555#post_11289668
  


conquerator2 said:


> Ok. I have not really tested it before because I never reached those volumes before. I have some real quiet tracks myself and I never go above 60 on them, especially since the Gungnir puts through a bit more voltage than my previous DAC.
> Regardless, we both have orthos, which are even more insensitive to noise. If I put them on at 80% and started playing, both the drivers and my ears would be toast.
> Do test different sources if you can and report back. I have no other sources for testing and the PS4 is esentially a small PC.
> I have it on 35 via PS4 and it is silent untill 80. My amp has a very high gain (custom 6db low , high 26db) and it stays at 30 - 35 most of the time with all sources on high gain. That is about 40% to 80


 
  
 I'll try to do a bit more testing if I can.  Another issue I had with the Gungnir is very specific and also rather odd.
  
 While playing the Diana Krall The Look Of Love Bluray on my Oppo 105D > Gungnir (coax) > Lyr2 > HE-500:
  
 On the second song the Gungnir is doing something really odd.  There's a background tambourine playing and at about 1:13 into the song the Gungnir makes that sound into a really harsh and distorted sound.  Almost hurts the ear.  It does it again at 1:16, and a few other times thoughout the disc but I didn't pay attention to the times on all of them.  I switched back and forth to the Oppo/Gungnir as the DAC to make sure and it never happens when using the Oppo as the DAC > Lyr2 > HE-500.


----------



## conquerator2

bwmarrin said:


> Just moving a discussion here, since it seems more appropriate.  I've been discussing with conquerator2 rather it's "normal" for the *Gungnir DAC to generate any static noise into an amp at 80-100%* volume when no music is playing.  In my example, connecting my new Gungnir > Lyr 2 > HE-500 headphones I'm getting static/hiss/noise at about 65% volume and it progressively gets worse all the way up to 100% volume.   Maybe members of this thread would have an idea if that's at all normal, or not.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip/555#post_11289668
> 
> ...


 
 I don't think generate is the right term... Rather transmits, It has to do with the noise floor, source and the amplifier [amp's gain] to a degree as well.
 Still, am curios what others think.
 Mine does not transmit any noise floor or noise until 70 - 80%, but my HE-560 is harder to drive and might be slightly more insensitive to such noises than bwmarin's HE-500.
 Certainly interesting to see what others think. I wish a had another desktop DAC to test whether Gungnir is more sensitive to this.
  
 I am very happy with the Gungnir myself. Excellent value for the price, IMO. Love it so far, form tis brilliant USB implementation to the authoritative drive and musicality it brings to my music.


----------



## bwmarrin

conquerator2 said:


> I don't think generate is the right term... Rather transmits, It has to do with the noise floor, source and the amplifier [amp's gain] to a degree as well.
> Still, am curios what others think.
> Mine does not transmit any noise floor or noise until 70 - 80%,* but my HE-560 is harder to drive* and might be slightly more insensitive to such noises than bwmarin's HE-500.
> Certainly interesting to see what others think. I wish a had another desktop DAC to test whether Gungnir is more sensitive to this.
> ...


 
  
 Actually, the HE-560's are easier to drive.


----------



## David Aldrich

I've noticed non-descript noise when set to an active input with nothing playing and the amp volume very high. I'll give that track a listen tonight and see if I notice anything. I would be surprised if the Gungnir was causing a specific sound in a song to be distorted but otherwise perform normally.


----------



## conquerator2

bwmarrin said:


> Actually, the HE-560's are easier to drive.


 
 They're about on par in reality. As someone who's been following the HE-560 thread from the start, many even seem to agree that the HE-560 is harder to drive in the end. But case in point, the difference is not major either way


----------



## Solude

bwmarrin said:


> Actually, the HE-560's are easier to drive.


 
  
 For a HiFiMAN ortho but it is still takes 11x the power an LCD-X does to hit 90dB output.


----------



## bwmarrin

solude said:


> For a HiFiMAN ortho but it is still takes 11x the power an LCD-X does to hit 90dB output.


 

 Oh, probably true.  I was saying that in response to the HE-500 vs HE-560 statement and I guess I might even be wrong but I was just going off the listed specs, HE-500 89db, 38ohm, and the HE-560 is 90db, 35ohm.  So it should be slightly easier but maybe those numbers are misleading as conquerator2 has implied.


----------



## bwmarrin

david aldrich said:


> I've noticed non-descript noise when set to an active input with nothing playing and the amp volume very high. I'll give that track a listen tonight and see if I notice anything. I would be surprised if the Gungnir was causing a specific sound in a song to be distorted but otherwise perform normally.


 
  
 That'd be fantastic, I was hoping someone else might have that disc too   My test was Oppo > Gungnir via Coax > Lyr2 > HE-500 and it was very obvious difference compared to the sound Oppo > Lyr2 > HE-500 at those exact times in the song.  It was "normal" sounding with the Oppo as the DAC and harsh and "wrong" sounding with the Gungnir.  Also playing the sound from the Oppo > Emotiva UPA-200 > Monitor Audio speakers doesn't make the "harsh" sound.  So I was pretty sure it was a problem with the Gungnir.
  
 I already have a return auth for my Gungnir though as Schiit seems to agree somethings not right.  Once I get a replacement I'll try all this again and see if I still have any problem.


----------



## David Aldrich

Upon reflecting on my calendar, listening and component testing will have to wait until Friday as these evening and all of tomorrow are jam packed.
  
 One thing I have noticed in comparing the Gungnir to my HRT Music Streamer HD is that I'm noticing harshness in certain sounds that I never noticed in the Music Streamer HD, however I also discontinued the use of my Meyer Audio Corda Cross when I switched between the DACs so that may well explain it, the Corda Cross on the setting I used introduces a 100µs delayed attenuated signal from each channel into the other so that could muddle a small band of frequencies around 5kHz if my mental math is correct.


----------



## hodgjy

bwmarrin said:


> Just moving a discussion here, since it seems more appropriate.  I've been discussing with conquerator2 rather it's "normal" for the Gungnir DAC to generate any static noise into an amp at 80-100% volume when no music is playing.  In my example, connecting my new Gungnir > Lyr 2 > HE-500 headphones I'm getting static/hiss/noise at about 65% volume and it progressively gets worse all the way up to 100% volume.   Maybe members of this thread would have an idea if that's at all normal, or not.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip/555#post_11289668


 
 I have the same issue with my Bifrost Uber, which has a similar output stage as the Gungnir.  If I mute the music and crank the volume to 75%, I hear background static noise.  The only thing that comes to mind is Schiit uses FETs for outputs and not opamps, so there will be more noise.  At normal listening volumes, the static is gone.  So, I don't worry about it much.


----------



## David Aldrich

hodgjy said:


> I have the same issue with my Bifrost Uber, which has a similar output stage as the Gungnir.  If I mute the music and crank the volume to 75%, I hear background static noise.  The only thing that comes to mind is Schiit uses FETs for outputs and not opamps, so there will be more noise.  At normal listening volumes, the static is gone.  So, I don't worry about it much.


 

 That's exactly my experience with my Gungnir, silent at listening levels.


----------



## davidvanderbilt

Just wanted to share my opinion on the Gungnir (Gen 2 USB). I have been looking for a DAC in the 500-1000 dollar range for quite some time now to go with my Bottlehead Crack and HD600s. I have purchased and returned an Emotiva DC-1 (twice actually the first one was defective) and Resonessence Labs Concero both of which I spent about a month with. I've also tried the NAD D1050 extensively. In my opinion the NAD D1050 was marginally better than my ODAC. I didn't really see the value. I had the same opinion for the Concero, I didn't like it at all. The sound signature was too close to the ODAC. I think the ODAC and Concero sound unnatural with harsh treble. The DC-1 was a lot more pleasing to listen to compared to the ODAC. It was more natural and full with more detail. The treble sounded less metallic and artificial. However, I just wasn't satisfied after a month of listening to it. I just felt like I was missing something. I guess I had "upgraditis" as they call it. 
  
 I know the Gungnir is $350 more than the DC-1 but in my opinion it is definitely worth the price. It is substantially more detailed and a clear step up. I'm noticing details in most of my music collection that I've never noticed before. The sound stage is larger. An overall fuller sound. The bass is more defined and clear. Mids are amazing. Treble sounds more natural and pleasing. Cymbals sounds like cymbals. Background is completely silent, which I never noticed before in any other DAC. Even material that I have cringed listening to before sounds better on the Gungnir. I don't feel like anything is missing. I'm truly wowed by this DAC and would recommend it to anyone. It's definitely worth the money, especially over the other DACs I've tried.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

davidvanderbilt said:


> Just wanted to share my opinion on the Gungnir (Gen 2 USB). I have been looking for a DAC in the 500-1000 dollar range for quite some time now to go with my Bottlehead Crack and HD600s. I have purchased and returned an Emotiva DC-1 (twice actually the first one was defective) and Resonessence Labs Concero both of which I spent about a month with. I've also tried the NAD D1050 extensively. In my opinion the NAD D1050 was marginally better than my ODAC. I didn't really see the value. I had the same opinion for the Concero, I didn't like it at all. The sound signature was too close to the ODAC. I think the ODAC and Concero sound unnatural with harsh treble. The DC-1 was a lot more pleasing to listen to compared to the ODAC. It was more natural and full with more detail. The treble sounded less metallic and artificial. However, I just wasn't satisfied after a month of listening to it. I just felt like I was missing something. I guess I had "upgraditis" as they call it.
> 
> I know the Gungnir is $350 more than the DC-1 but in my opinion it is definitely worth the price. It is substantially more detailed and a clear step up. I'm noticing details in most of my music collection that I've never noticed before. The sound stage is larger. An overall fuller sound. The bass is more defined and clear. Mids are amazing. Treble sounds more natural and pleasing. Cymbals sounds like cymbals. Background is completely silent, which I never noticed before in any other DAC. Even material that I have cringed listening to before sounds better on the Gungnir. I don't feel like anything is missing. I'm truly wowed by this DAC and would recommend it to anyone. It's definitely worth the money, especially over the other DACs I've tried.


 
 Thanks for the in-depth comparison. At one point I also seriously considered the Concero.


----------



## conquerator2

davidvanderbilt said:


> Just wanted to share my opinion on the Gungnir (Gen 2 USB). I have been looking for a DAC in the 500-1000 dollar range for quite some time now to go with my Bottlehead Crack and HD600s. I have purchased and returned an Emotiva DC-1 (twice actually the first one was defective) and Resonessence Labs Concero both of which I spent about a month with. I've also tried the NAD D1050 extensively. In my opinion the NAD D1050 was marginally better than my ODAC. I didn't really see the value. I had the same opinion for the Concero, I didn't like it at all. The sound signature was too close to the ODAC. I think the ODAC and Concero sound unnatural with harsh treble. The DC-1 was a lot more pleasing to listen to compared to the ODAC. It was more natural and full with more detail. The treble sounded less metallic and artificial. However, I just wasn't satisfied after a month of listening to it. I just felt like I was missing something. I guess I had "upgraditis" as they call it.
> 
> I know the Gungnir is $350 more than the DC-1 but in my opinion it is definitely worth the price. It is substantially more detailed and a clear step up. I'm noticing details in most of my music collection that I've never noticed before. The sound stage is larger. An overall fuller sound. *The bass is more defined and clear.* Mids are amazing. *Treble sounds more natural and pleasing.* Cymbals sounds like cymbals. Background is completely silent, which I never noticed before in any other DAC. *Even material that I have cringed listening to before sounds better on the Gungnir.* I don't feel like anything is missing. I'm truly wowed by this DAC and would recommend it to anyone. It's definitely worth the money, especially over the other DACs I've tried.


 
 I feel these three things sum up the differences between my previous DAC and the Gungnir, The Gungnir is not as detailed and airy, though still sufficient... Certainly not lacking. I feel though where it absolutely crash the Sabre is bass, naturalness, treble and tonal balance with less stellar recordings, The Sabre can sound eerily real but that's with instrumental and well mastered tracks only. The Gungnir is a much better all-rounder for sure. The bass is stunning too.
 Nonetheless, it seems like the Yggdrasil would be the only step-up in that price range right now... It seems to to combine the strengths of the AKM and ES chips, which, quite frankly, no other DAC currently in the market can do for that price.
 I too feel the Gungnir is a very good investment. The only thing I really miss from the Sabre is air, which it seems to do best, but brings about that analytic signature along with it. The Gungnir simply is musical


----------



## nigeljames

conquerator2 said:


> I feel these three things sum up the differences between my previous DAC and the Gungnir, The Gungnir is not as detailed and airy, though still sufficient... Certainly not lacking. I feel though where it absolutely crash the Sabre is bass, naturalness, treble and tonal balance with less stellar recordings, The Sabre can sound eerily real but that's with instrumental and well mastered tracks only. The Gungnir is a much better all-rounder for sure. The bass is stunning too.
> Nonetheless, it seems like the Yggdrasil would be the only step-up in that price range right now... It seems to to combine the strengths of the AKM and ES chips, which, quite frankly, no other DAC currently in the market can do for that price.
> I too feel the Gungnir is a very good investment. The only thing I really miss from the Sabre is air, which it seems to do best, but brings about that analytic signature along with it. The Gungnir simply is musical


 
  
 I am always amazed at this hobby with the totally different opinions people can have of the same gear.
  
 I managed to get my hands on the Gungnir for the weekend a few months ago and compared it with my NFB-7 using XLR cables. Firstly I will say that the Gungnir is a very good DAC at the price and well worth the money, however it was not in the same class IMO as the NFB7. It was not a massacre but the only area where I felt the Gungnir could be considered better was tonality as it was warmer sounding which some people like.
 However treble was of similar quality but the NFB7 had more extension. Both sounded very natural so could not pick a winner there.
 However I felt the bass was better on the NFB with greater control, speed and depth where the Gungnir had a fuller bass which sounded better only on bass light material.
 As you mentioned the NFB had a clear advantage in air and detail which suited me better as I am a detail freak 
  
 These differences were slightly greater when the NFB was used via ACSS as it was intended to be.
  
 However it does not distract from the fact that the Gungnir is half the price of the NFB-7 and sounded very good and I was surprised it sounded as good as it did.
  
 Makes me wonder about the Yggdrasil.


----------



## conquerator2

nigeljames said:


> I am always amazed at this hobby with the totally different opinions people can have of the same gear.
> 
> I managed to get my hands on the Gungnir for the weekend a few months ago and compared it with my NFB-7 using XLR cables. Firstly I will say that the Gungnir is a very good DAC at the price and well worth the money, however it was not in the same class IMO opinion as the NFB7. It was not a massacre but the only area where I felt the Gungnir could be considered better was tonally as it was warmer sounding which some people like.
> However treble was of similar quality but the NFB7 had more extension. Both sounded very natural so could not pick a winner there.
> ...




Well said!
I mostly agree with what you say 
I think the headphones play a big part in it , more than anything no doubt.
I imagine the NFB would be an absolute killer with the Audeze. Less so with the Hifimans. It made them super detailed and airy, which I love, but it was simply to revealing for them. Not a good match w/ the HFM IMO. They are nicely detailed even with the Gungnir.
Also do note that my amp is SS not tube, which has an impact too.
For what it is worth, I think the NFB is an amazing DAC no doubt and I could see myself being happy with it for years if I owned a different headphone or maybe a tube amp even.
I will watch the Yggy closely then


----------



## nigeljames

conquerator2 said:


> Well said!
> I mostly agree with what you say
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is something we will have to disagree on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Of the phones I have my favorite are the HE6 and HD800's even though I use a SS amp as well with all silver cables.
 The HD800's are massively detailed and fast but also have a pretty full and very dynamic lively sound. I don't find them thin or bright at all.
 The HE6's are very full bodied and musical but also with high levels of detail. Tonally they sound closer to the LCD2.2's than they do the HD8800's. I actually bought a silver cable to brighten them up because initially I found them to warm and reserved.
  
 Did you use your Audio-gd amp as your main amp for the Hifiman's? and use ACSS for the NFB7?


----------



## conquerator2

nigeljames said:


> That is something we will have to disagree on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I used the Audio-gd SA31SE. I still have the C10 but I no longer have any speaker taps. Also, that thing is heavy and impractical. Plus, I really like the SA31SE.
 I run all my gear single-ended for now. The difference between SE/BAL/ACSS varies greatly from person to person,.. I won't put too much weight  on that for now.
 The differences between the NFB-7 and Gungnir are very clear with the HE-560. I would certainly love a best-of-both-worlds DAC eventually. The Yggdrasil perhaps.
 Gungnir it is for now though


----------



## Liu Junyuan

conquerator2 said:


> I used the Audio-gd SA31SE. I still have the C10 but I no longer have any speaker taps. Also, that thing is heavy and impractical. Plus, I really like the SA31SE.
> I run all my gear single-ended for now. The difference between SE/BAL/ACSS varies greatly from person to person,.. I won't put too much weight  on that for now.
> The differences between the NFB-7 and Gungnir are very clear with the HE-560. I would certainly love a best-of-both-worlds DAC eventually. The Yggdrasil perhaps.
> Gungnir it is for now though :wink_face:




Are you liking this better than NGB-7?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

liu junyuan said:


> Are you liking this better than NFB-7?


----------



## conquerator2

In some ways very much, like lower midrange, lower treble and bass in other ways, like upper midrange, upper treble and detail/resolution, not so much 
It is a great DAC but I can see myself getting the Yggdrasil eventually, if existing impressions are any indication


----------



## Liu Junyuan

conquerator2 said:


> In some ways very much, like lower midrange, lower treble and bass in other ways, like upper midrange, upper treble and detail/resolution, not so much
> It is a great DAC but I can see myself getting the Yggdrasil eventually, if existing impressions are any indication




The detail/resolution point is what bothers me because I also love those aspects. What exactly do you mean in terms of how they differ. Am I listening through a veil, a blanket, an impenetrable cloak with the Gungnir, or am I hearing details faintly though less prominently presented?


----------



## Solude

The resolution of the Gungnir is stunning BUT the tonal balance is shifted down.  It really takes something naturally bright to balance it out IF the goal is air and not warmth.


----------



## conquerator2

liu junyuan said:


> The detail/resolution point is what bothers me because I also love those aspects. What exactly do you mean in terms of how they differ. Am I listening through a veil, a blanket, an impenetrable cloak with the Gungnir, or *am I hearing details faintly though less prominently presented?*




Pretty much. I feel the Gungnir smooths over things a bit, missing some nice extension. Instruments lack a bit of energy to me, even vocals sometimes and threre is not much air. The Sabre is definitely clearer and more aggressive, with plenty of air. The Gungnir does sound veiled next to the Sabre. I would love to have those attributes of the Sabre with Gungnir's mixed in as I said.
Guitars, pianos, violins and female vocals could sound absolutely stunning on the NFB7... The Gungnir does not seem like it can reach that.
The advantages are obviously there - at times a more natural sound, never fatiguing and the bass is hands down better. But the trade-offs are there... On both sides. :rolleyes:
The Gungnir is still a very solid DAC IMO and it's a keeper for now for sure  I think I prefer it overall to the NFB-7 because the subjective flaws affect my overall listening experience less. Say harsh vocals vs little air... The first is obviously worse. Just the things I miss now  Also, the headphones play a major point IMO, as I pointed out 
Overall, I think at the peak I enjoyed the NFB-7 a bit more but at the bottom I enjoy the Gungnir more... Or the Gungnir is more forgiving and thus a better all-rounder, while the NFB-7 is more 'reference' and only sound best with good -> very good tracks... The bread and butter of it 
I will be watching the Yggdrasil very closely... I still don't think tubes are the way to go 

Also - I am still adjusting to the Gungnir after the NFB-7. So, take the impressions as are... Can only get more positive  But the general consensus won't change much, tonality and stuff. Also, still a possible burn-in phase at play.


----------



## conquerator2

Well, I am definitely starting to enjoy the Gungnir more and more!
 Going PC - Wyrd - U12 - coax to Gungnir. USB Gungnir is very good too btw.
 Anyway, burn-in or brain burn-in or not, really starting to enjoy it a lot more. All the musicality coming back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 The post above is still accurate, of course. Just saying I like what I currently have too


----------



## NoxNoctum

So I have both the Gugnir and Bifrost (non uber) at the moment (auditioning both, will return one), I've come across a few posts on the net about people with tinnitus responding negatively to the Gugnir but not the Bifrost. Can anyone comment on this? I have so little time to get the feel for both that I'd love to hear thoughts on this. For now I'm just alternating days listening to one then the other.
  
 If I do end up going with the lower-end Bifrost, will it "bottleneck" my set-up? I will probably end up with ~$2-3K invested in just the amp/headphones so I would hate for it to be bottlenecked.


----------



## David Aldrich

What are you other components that will be going with the DAC? You can't really call out an "investment" amount and get good responses.
  
 From everything I've come across the Bifrost has a deeper warmer sound signature, I find it difficult to claim the Gungnir is empirically better than the Bifrost. The Gungnir may well be more technically accurate and overall resolving because of that character I think the difference between the two is ultimately going to have to come down to your own needs and subjective opinion of which you like better from a purely signature standpoint.
  
 If you're strictly concerned with getting a analytical accurate DAC just keep the Gungnir, it's a no brainer, it's more expensive so you can feel like you didn't cheap yourself out sticking with it right? That last bit was purely tongue in cheek. I'm very happy with my Gungnir here's why it's the better choice for me.
  
 I prefer an accurate DAC and don't miss any low end emphasis that the Bifrost or others may have over the Gungnir, I like low end but only when well balanced with the rest of the spectrum and never overpowering.
  
 I know that I will be pursuing balanced amps in the future which I prefer to feed with a balanced DAC, I also like XLR connectors much more than RCA so I am happy to use them instead.
  
 I like heavy equipment, it's just doesn't get scooted around so easily which is a peeve of mine admittedly. 
  
 Consider the difference in features and focus on wether or not any differences in I/O, size, or weight can make an important mark on your decision checklist.


----------



## NoxNoctum

Sorry --- other components will likely be:
  
 Mjolnir amp
 LCD-2.2 or possibly LCD-X or -3.
  
 I'm also trying out some HE-6s but the LCD2.2 in my possession ATM is much closer to the sound I want to go for (though admittedly I've been told that the Mjo is not a good match for the HE-6). I just want to add some kick/bite to the sound -- which I hope the Mjo will deliver. If not I will probably look into trying a LCD-X.
  
 I asked about bottlenecking just because I usually see Mjo paired with Gungnir and Bifrost with Lyr.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

Well, do you hear a difference between them yet? 

As far as I am aware, the Bifrost not any richer or bassy than the Gungnir. From what I have read, the Gungnir is slightly less grainy up top and has better dynamics, even on single ended. I think the extra dynamics may be what would fatigue someone over the Bifrost. Both possess the same natural sweet tone and neither will be as resolving as a good Sabre implementation or other more high end DACs. 

First step is to figure out whether you can tell a difference or not. No use keeping the more expensive model if you cant tell?!


----------



## NoxNoctum

My impressions after ~6 hours on the Bifrost and ~15 on the Gungnir is the Gungnir is more detailed and has more instrument separation while the Bifrost has more low end emphasis and is less fatiguing. 
  
 Maybe it's all in my head though after reading opinions expressing the above  (I don't think so though...) We'll see how they both feel after hours of break in (speaking of which --- does the DAC need to actually be playing music to burn in or can it just be on?) Honestly I might just end up keeping both. If I end up selling one down the road I'd be out what-- $150 maybe? Not a huge loss if I'm looking for the best audio experience possible.
  
 If anyone on here has experience with tinnitus and could comment on how they reacted with one vs the other that'd be awesome as well.


----------



## David Aldrich

The Uber Bifrost shares a similar if not identical analog output stage. If you don't have the need for a BNC S/PDIF input or balanced outputs and you can't hear a difference yourself there is no harm in saving a few bucks.
  
 They run in those units prior to shipping for function testing don't expect them to change. What you can expect to change is your ears/mind which will either grow to like the sound or dislike it.


----------



## Solude

noxnoctum said:


> My impressions after ~6 hours on the Bifrost and ~15 on the Gungnir is the Gungnir is more detailed and has more instrument separation while the Bifrost has more low end emphasis and is less fatiguing.
> 
> If anyone on here has experience with tinnitus and could comment on how they reacted with one vs the other that'd be awesome as well.


 
  
 Answered your own question.  Keep the Gungnir.  
  
 Not sure how a piece of gear could affect your tinnitus one way or another.  About the only thing that ever bugs mine is if the material is played loud and has stuff going on at the same frequency as my mild tinnitus.


----------



## joebobbilly

I have the M/G stack with the LCD2.2 and it is an excellent combo. I have compared the bifrost vs gungnir on the mjolnir before on the HD650 and I definitely preferred the better resolution and soundstage on the Gungnir. As such, I would suggest that the LCD2.2 should be seen in a similar manner since it shares a similar darker sound signature as the HD650.


----------



## hodgjy

joebobbilly said:


> I have the M/G stack with the LCD2.2 and it is an excellent combo. I have compared the bifrost vs gungnir on the mjolnir before on the HD650 and I definitely preferred the better resolution and soundstage on the Gungnir. As such, I would suggest that the LCD2.2 should be seen in a similar manner since it shares a similar darker sound signature as the HD650.


 
 Is your LCD Fazored?


----------



## joebobbilly

hodgjy said:


> Is your LCD Fazored?


 

 No it is not. It was measured 2013 October... making it just a few months shy of the fazor ones. I am in fact curious about the fazor so I'm looking to see if anyone has a fazor one that they would be willing to trade with me.


----------



## hodgjy

joebobbilly said:


> No it is not. It was measured 2013 October... making it just a few months shy of the fazor ones. I am in fact curious about the fazor so I'm looking to see if anyone has a fazor one that they would be willing to trade with me.


 
 I have the Fazor, and it's my understanding that it's not as dark as the non-Fazored.  It has a similar frequency response as the HD650, but with less midbass bloom and more treble presence.


----------



## davidvanderbilt

davidvanderbilt said:


> Just wanted to share my opinion on the Gungnir (Gen 2 USB). I have been looking for a DAC in the 500-1000 dollar range for quite some time now to go with my Bottlehead Crack and HD600s. I have purchased and returned an Emotiva DC-1 (twice actually the first one was defective) and Resonessence Labs Concero both of which I spent about a month with. I've also tried the NAD D1050 extensively. In my opinion the NAD D1050 was marginally better than my ODAC. I didn't really see the value. I had the same opinion for the Concero, I didn't like it at all. The sound signature was too close to the ODAC. I think the ODAC and Concero sound unnatural with harsh treble. The DC-1 was a lot more pleasing to listen to compared to the ODAC. It was more natural and full with more detail. The treble sounded less metallic and artificial. However, I just wasn't satisfied after a month of listening to it. I just felt like I was missing something. I guess I had "upgraditis" as they call it.
> 
> I know the Gungnir is $350 more than the DC-1 but in my opinion it is definitely worth the price. It is substantially more detailed and a clear step up. I'm noticing details in most of my music collection that I've never noticed before. The sound stage is larger. An overall fuller sound. The bass is more defined and clear. Mids are amazing. Treble sounds more natural and pleasing. Cymbals sounds like cymbals. Background is completely silent, which I never noticed before in any other DAC. Even material that I have cringed listening to before sounds better on the Gungnir. I don't feel like anything is missing. I'm truly wowed by this DAC and would recommend it to anyone. It's definitely worth the money, especially over the other DACs I've tried.


 
  
 Update:
  
 Okay I have to admit at first I was pretty blown away by this dac, but after I've listened to more of my music collection (I mainly listened to rock at first) and let the dac burn in for a couple weeks, certain things are starting to annoy me. For one thing, in my setup (hd600s and bottlehead crack) I feel like the bass is too much at times and distracts from the rest of the music. Also, because of this, or just the dac character in general, certain songs sound too dark and don't have enough treble extension. I removed some of the bass using the equalizer in foobar, but when I switch to a track that has a decent amount of treble, or even worse a bright track, it sounds too bright. It's completely track dependent and unfortunately I have a huge music collection including everything from electronic to rap to rock.  
  
 I've been messing with the equalizer constantly and I can't seem to find a happy medium. It's driving me insane! haha. I don't have a ton of experience with other dacs besides the above mentioned, but it's crazy how completely different certain tracks sound on this dac in terms of bright/dark/bass/treble. I guess dynamic would be the technical term. Also I should mention that I am a bit of a perfectionist, and I'm sure that plays into my impressions of the dac.


----------



## AudioBear

It may be that what is happening is that you are hearing exactly what's on the recording and the mixing just doesn't suit your tastes.  The fact that you liked Gungnir at first and then started finding the warts suggests when you get past listening to the DAC and start listening to the music you are not happy with what you hear.  That's perfectly ok, there many poorly mixed recordings out there.  Sometimes I hear one and think "what were they thinking".  I'd be the first to admit that I have felt that way about big hits that everybody seems to like.
  
 You may end up equalizing many of your tracks to match your preferences.  Try that before you keep swapping DACs.  It's less expensive and you have a good chance of liking what you re-equalized.
  
 I'm saving up for a Gungnir and when I buy it I have decided it WILL make me happy for a long time.  And I haven't even heard it yet.


----------



## davidvanderbilt

audiobear said:


> It may be that what is happening is that you are hearing exactly what's on the recording and the mixing just doesn't suit your tastes.  The fact that you liked Gungnir at first and then started finding the warts suggests when you get past listening to the DAC and start listening to the music you are not happy with what you hear.  That's perfectly ok, there many poorly mixed recordings out there.  Sometimes I hear one and think "what were they thinking".  I'd be the first to admit that I have felt that way about big hits that everybody seems to like.
> 
> You may end up equalizing many of your tracks to match your preferences.  Try that before you keep swapping DACs.  It's less expensive and you have a good chance of liking what you re-equalized.
> 
> I'm saving up for a Gungnir and when I buy it I have decided it WILL make me happy for a long time.  And I haven't even heard it yet.


 
  
 That's a good point, I have considered that too. Can you EQ specific tracks in foobar or any other software like jriver?


----------



## Byrnie

davidvanderbilt said:


> That's a good point, I have considered that too. Can you EQ specific tracks in foobar or any other software like jriver?


 
 There's also a bass boost settings in the cmedia driver that you can use to adjust the bass.  Just a thought.


----------



## AudioBear

I think you need to find software that does this track by track. Could be a cool hobby to create tracks the way you like them. I use Audacity on a Mac and it does quite a bit. It's free and it's available for Windows and other OS. There may be many other programs used in producing music that would be appropriate. Anybody know?

Google Audacity


----------



## KLJTech

One of the things that simply drives me crazy these days in this passion/hobby is how many poorly made some CD's/albums/music files are. I can play a CD's for you that are so clean and transparent that you can hear every little detail, like taking a breath before singing the next verse and the soundstage is huge, deeper than my back wall and wider than the room's side walls. Other's are so compressed that the music lacks dynamics and most everything is hanging there between my speakers with no life/spark to it.
  
 In my opinion, compared to other DAC's in and around its price range, the Gungnir does the best job being faithful to the signal its feed. Give it a great sounding signal and you'll be more than pleased, but feed it a compressed, lifeless signal and that's what you will hear through either your speakers or headphones. Recordings vary greatly in sound quality and the best we can hope for is that the recording industry will someday soon get their acts together. In the meantime, I simply do my best to overlook the poorly recorded music that I still love and hope that a better copy will be available soon.  Good luck!


----------



## AudioBear

amen.

I was listening to a 320 mp3 today that sounded better than some 192/24 flacs because it was incredibly well produced. I was surprised it could sound so good.


----------



## Solude

davidvanderbilt said:


> For one thing, in my setup (hd600s and bottlehead crack) I feel like the bass is too much at times and distracts from the rest of the music.


 
  
 The Gungnir has a very dark tonal balance compared to a lot of DACs.  Great match for bright amps or cans, not so much if you pair it to also warm gear.  For me it paired really well with the Mjolnir but on the GS-X mk2 it was too dark.  Long story short, I believe there is a reason a lot of a the HD800 fans are also Gungnir fans and that reason is the Gungnir really balances out the otherwise thin HD800.


----------



## davidvanderbilt

solude said:


> The Gungnir has a very dark tonal balance compared to a lot of DACs.  Great match for bright amps or cans, not so much if you pair it to also warm gear.  For me it paired really well with the Mjolnir but on the GS-X mk2 it was too dark.  Long story short, I believe there is a reason a lot of a the HD800 fans are also Gungnir fans and that reason is the Gungnir really balances out the otherwise thin HD800.


 
  
 That makes sense, however, everything I've read actually says that the gungnir isn't a good pair with the HD800s due to harsh treble. I think it's just entirely track dependent. I guess it's all personal preference though.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

davidvanderbilt said:


> That makes sense, however, everything I've read actually says that the gungnir isn't a good pair with the HD800s due to harsh treble. I think it's just entirely track dependent. I guess it's all personal preference though.




The harsh treble? That is interesting. If anything, the Gungnir's treble might be accused of being too smooth for some setups. I wonder if it is because of its strong dynamics that may be interpreted as being aggressive by some.


----------



## Solude

davidvanderbilt said:


> That makes sense, however, everything I've read actually says that the gungnir isn't a good pair with the HD800s due to harsh treble.


 
  
 That's not the Gungnir, that's the HD800 lower treble "definition" boost.  The Gungnir is butter smooth.


----------



## davidvanderbilt

solude said:


> That's not the Gungnir, that's the HD800 lower treble "definition" boost.  The Gungnir is butter smooth.


 
  
  
 Yeah you're right, it was more the interaction between the two rather than the Gungnir itself from what I read.


----------



## Byrnie

liu junyuan said:


> The harsh treble? That is interesting. If anything, the Gungnir's treble might be accused of being too smooth for some setups. I wonder if it is because of its strong dynamics that may be interpreted as being aggressive by some.



I ahree the treble is not harsh at all. Now I have heard some say that the HD800 has harsh treble.


----------



## Byrnie

I also don't find the Gungnir to be dark.


----------



## AudioBear

I wasn't going to say anything because I don't own Gungnir and I have never heard one playing but I wondered about that comment.  I have been researching the unit and plan to buy one soon.  Having read all the reviews and user comments I noticed a distinct trend in a few selected recent comments here that Gungnir is "dark."  This view did not appear in earlier reviews.  I was going to ask "which is it?"
  
 I did notice that in the reviews listed on the Schiit website Kevin O'brien in YourFinalSystem does comment that the Gungnir is "a slightly darker and more laid back than the minimax plus"  Elsewhere in the review Kevin says he can't tell the difference between the two DACs.  He highly recommends Gungnir as the new king of affordable DACs.
  
 I would like to see this explained.  I guess it's always fair to say any piece of equipment is dark depending on what you compare it to.


----------



## davidvanderbilt

I think it just boils down to which equipment you are using and what you are listening to. I'm going to try my friends he-500/emotiva setup tomorrow and see how I like it.


----------



## Solude

audiobear said:


> I would like to see this explained.


 
  
 As simple as... what else is in the chain.  The Gungnir/Mjolnir combination is pretty dead neutral.  The Gungnir/GS-X mk2 is dark.  The PWD2/Mjolnir is bright.  The PWD2/GS-X mk2 is dead neutral.  Take from that what you will


----------



## AudioBear

Point taken and it was what I hoped to hear.


----------



## DSNORD

solude said:


> As simple as... what else is in the chain.  The Gungnir/Mjolnir combination is pretty dead neutral.  The Gungnir/GS-X mk2 is dark.  The PWD2/Mjolnir is bright.  The PWD2/GS-X mk2 is dead neutral.  Take from that what you will


 

 So the math looks like this:
  
 Gungnir = Neutral
 Mjolnir = Neutral
 PWD = Bright
 GS-X = Dark
  
 So paraphrasing an earlier poster, I too "have no desire to add defective equipment to neutralize the other defective equipment in my system."
  
 As an EXTREMELY happy G/M stack owner, it just seems natural to me that everything in the chain should add ZERO flavor to the sauce when all I want is the music AS RECORDED, any warts and all.
  
 DSN


----------



## Solude

dsnord said:


> So the math looks like this:
> 
> Gungnir = Neutral
> Mjolnir = Neutral
> ...


 
  
 Except no one is going to agree that the PWD2 is bright, most believe it is tilted towards warmth and likewise very few are going to hear the GS-X mk2 and think dark.
  
 Gungnir is dark
 Mjolnir is bright


----------



## KLJTech

In my home system (Parasound A21 & Magnepan 1.7) and office system (A23 & B&W 805N/CDM 1NT, Velodyne sub) the Gungnir Gen2 USB does not sound "dark" at all..nor does it sound bright. Obviously opinions will vary and while we're all using different gear with the Gungnir I've never heard it sound anything but clean/neutral, transparent and dynamic. I find the way many recordings nowadays are being mastered far more concerning than the components I'm using, especially the Gungnir. Of course, if you feel that the Gungnir sounds dark or bright in your setup it's easy enough to simply use a different DAC.


----------



## Solude

In comparison to what though?  Do you think the Gungnir has less bass presence than say your previous Benchmark DAC1?
  
 I should add... I don't consider the tonal balance of the Gungnir to be a bad thing.  It's performance in other metrics are awesome, easily going toe to toe with the PWD2.  Just a matter of whether you need/want the tonal balance shifted one way or the other.  Putting it to numbers the PWD2/GS-X mk2 and Gungnir/Mjolnir share a tonal balance and the G/M combo is ~90% of the P/G for WAY LESS $ =)


----------



## KLJTech

In my system, the DAC1 had good bass impact but I wasn't too fond of the highs, I prefer the Gungnir. In some else's system, with their gear who knows? I listen to my HE-500's several times a week, but most of my listening is through speakers. The room itself can have a large effect on sound too, but I've yet to hear either system sound "dark" when fronted by the Gungnir. _What's important is what you're hearing in your setup_, if yours sound dark with the Gungnir then I'd certainly try another DAC. 
  
 I do have very good bass impact/presence with the Gungnir.


----------



## Solude

Dark might be too extreme.  Warm, smooth, natural also works.  Point being it isn't bright or harsh.  People tend to think of dark as more than what it is... a tonal shift towards bass.  Nothing to do with detail or attack.  Just the warmer side of warm.


----------



## AudioBear

The discussion is pointing toward an rationale for why many of us need to buy and try new equipment frequently.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 As a total non-expert and noob to DACs, I have a question about something that I have never understood.  Almost all the DACs mentioned here have flat frequency response, very low distortion and harmonics, and on paper measure identically (or at least beyond the resolution of human hearing to distinguish differences) on almost all parameters .  Yet careful listeners can discern differences and have distinct preferences.  Why is that?  Is there something that engineers are not measuring that makes one sound warm and the other harsh?  It's for sure that you can't just go by the numbers.
  
 I'm not sure I want an answer because as long as I can't tell with numbers what something sounds like I can just keep upgrading and swapping into new equipment.


----------



## conquerator2

It is certainly dark compared to most Sabre implementations, which are on the brighter side IMO.
What is better? That I leave to the others to decide. I am a bit torn myself...
The rest of the chain obviously matters too...
All things being equal, the Gung is certainly not bright nor is it harsh. And the bass is excellent. I doubt anyone would argue these points.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

conquerator2 said:


> It is certainly dark compared to most Sabre implementations, which are on the brighter side IMO.
> What is better? That I leave to the others to decide. I am a bit torn myself...
> The rest of the chain obviously matters too...
> All things being equal, the Gung is certainly not bright nor is it harsh. And the bass is excellent. I doubt anyone would argue these points.




Yes, and it also has a natural tone.


----------



## KLJTech

I would never claim to be an expert, I'm simply someone that is addicted to music and have been buying components and speakers to play said music on since the mid-80's. In my opinion, most (not all) of your better DAC's and amps have gotten pretty damn good, so unless you are _very_ aware of how your system sounds, (and you're not making changes to it all the time) you may not even be able to tell the difference between two pretty good DAC's. With a firm grasp on how your setup sounds and with recordings you're _very familiar_ with, it's easier to pick up what one DAC is doing when compared to another. It's very seldom (almost never) a night and day type of difference and "a difference" isn't always for the better. 
  
 As far as measurements go, I not so sure that we always know what to measure or how to measure it, beyond the obvious, a flat frequency response. I think the best thing to do is, make a short list of components to audition, based on as much information as possible, from reviewers you've already found to have tastes that are similar to yours. Once you have your system together and you're happy with the results then you should try like Hell to forget about the gear and simply focus on enjoying your music. 
  
 It's very easy and often a lot of fun to get caught in the trap of constantly "upgrading" your gear, but if you're not careful you'll end up chasing the rabbit down the hole and forgetting what this was all about in the first place...music. 
  
 <sorry for all the typos>


----------



## conquerator2

Yeah, except when you either get something that supposedly sounds like X, but actually sounds like Y a bit or actually end up missing the X characteristic that the Y won't give you... If there's a perfectly synergetic DAC/amp/HP system, I sure hope I will find mine for myself 
Though I admit that it is fairly close now and so it was before as well... Just not exactly the pinnacle I hoped it'd reach.


----------



## AudioBear

KLJTech
  
 Thanks. I shall heed your advice.  Very well said.
  
 I suspect many of us have another challenge which is that there are no longer showrooms to go listen to a variety of DACs (if ever there were).  I happen to live in far Northern Idaho, the woods and mountains are great but there aren't a lot of good audio shops around.  Most of them don't carry the models most of us would like to look at anyway.  At the end of the day shopping doesn't help much because you can't hear the DACs plugged into the rest of your system with your room and speakers or your cans.  Nor can you listen critically for hours in most stores.  Jason Stoddard talks about this phenomenon in book/blog.
  
 Direct sales has really changed the whole ethos of buying.  You order something and try it out and if it works for you, you keep it, if not you send it back.  Most direct sales companies encourage customers to try their equipment out and send it back if they don't like it.  That's what I am going to do for Gungnir.  
  
 I don't know if it exists anywhere but wouldn't it be nice if there were a rental or free lending library for electronics?  I'll bet most of us have some pieces we could donate.  It's an interesting concept for someone who wants to put in the work to set it up and run it.  Which is not me.
  
 Thanks again KLJTech....


----------



## Eee Pee

audiobear said:


> I don't know if it exists anywhere but wouldn't it be nice if there were a rental or free lending library for electronics?


 
  
 Close:  http://www.thecableco.com/Product/NEW-Headphone-Lending-Library


----------



## reddog

kljtech said:


> I would never claim to be an expert, I simply someone that is addicted to music and have been buying components and speakers to play said music on since the mid-80's. In my opinion most (not all) of your better DAC's and amps have gotten pretty damn good so unless you are _very_ aware of how your system sounds (and you're not making changes to it all the time) you may not even be able to tell the difference between two pretty good DAC's. With a firm grasp on how your setup sounds and with recordings you're _very familiar_ with its easier to pick up what one DAC is doing when compared to another. It's very seldom (almost never) a night and day type of difference and "a difference" isn't always for the better.
> 
> As far as measurements go, I not so sure that we always know what to measure or how to measure it, beyond the obvious flat frequency response. I think the best thing to do is make a short list of components to audition, based on as much information as possible, from reviewers you've already found to have tastes that are similar to yours. Once you have your system together and you're happy with the results then you should try like Hell to forget about the gear and simply focus on enjoying your music.
> 
> It's very easy and often fun to get caught in the trap of constantly "upgrading" your gear, but if you're not careful you'll end up chasing the rabbit down the hole and forgetting what this was all about in the first place...music.



Well said sir. I think the happy audiophile is one who is content with their set up and does not chase the rabbit into the hole. I am planning on jumping into the hole and get a Yggdrasil. However I think a Gungnir could make me as happy, and save me money. But my ego wants a Yggdrasil lol and the ego over rules the diminutive cries of my wallet.


----------



## KLJTech

reddog said:


> Well said sir. I think the happy audiophile is one who is content with their set up and does not chase the rabbit into the hole. I am planning on jumping into the hole and get a Yggdrasil. However I think a Gungnir could make me as happy, and save me money. But my ego wants a Yggdrasil lol and the ego over rules the diminutive cries of my wallet.


 
 reddog,
  
 The Gungnir is a sweet sounding DAC that competes_ well above its price point in my opinion_. I will say that the best sound I've had achieved was when I had an R-2R/ladder type DAC and a nice transport as my front end so I have very high hopes for the upcoming Yggdrasil (It's difficult not to have a ton of faith in an end-game DAC designed by Mike Moffat). Though it was the best sound I've ever been able to squeeze out of my system, it's really an unfair comparison. Rather than a room I shared with others (God forbid) it was a dedicated listening room with room treatments, one lone leather chair, and the flexibility to move my speakers wherever needed to sound their best. I haven't had that kind of flexibility for a few years and I imagine most here don't, but simply being able to take over the room, and set your gear and listening chair up wherever it sounds best is a HUGE advantage. I have no doubt that it made my gear sound a lot better than it would have in many normal rooms. Good luck with whichever DAC you decide on! 
  
  
  
 AudioBear,
  
 When I mentioned auditioning components in your home I meant buy it, see if you like it and if not send it back. I realize that's not nearly as easy as driving to and from a store, but there are advantages to buying factory direct...like getting more for your money. Plus, with some gear, like speakers it really doesn't matter much what it sounds like in the showroom as they may sound like an entirely different animal in your house/room. I can only speak to what I've experienced, but the folks at Schiit Audio have been great to me. I hope you have a similar experience and end up with gear that you truly enjoy and then your only focus is on buying new CD's/albums! 
 Good Luck!


----------



## AudioBear

KLJTech,
  
 Thanks again for the input. Totally agree on about rooms and speakers. One of the attractions of cans is getting away from room effects so that you can enjoy the music even if you don't have a magic listening room. The people around the house seem to appreciate this as well.   I used to build and test speakers and IMHO they are the really weak link in the sound reproduction system, followed by recording and then mixing/production.  I was so focused on those parts of the system I never even really thought about DACs and only a little about amps and playback devices.  Now that I use cans and IEMs, it makes sense to focus more on the electronics.
  
 As far as auditioning in the home, I get it the world is a changing place.  Yes for sure it's the best way to try gear out -- and you can listen for extended periods.  I do like the factory direct system but what has been hard to adjust to is returning a lot of stuff.  I'm fine with returning stuff when they send the wrong thing, when it's less than perfect, or when it just doesn't meet my needs.  Returns also were once a big hassle. In today's on-line world with overnight shipping it's no big deal to make your living room the showroom of the world.  Direct-sellers like Schiit expect and want you to try and return or keep.  I have started to get with the program and will certainly do that with the Gungnir.


----------



## Downrange

My short review of the Gungnir.  I ordered this thinking that it must be pretty damn good to garner the acclaim it has here and elsewhere in the high end press.  I was hoping that the newer technology it carried would propel it over my 2002-era DAC, albeit one that cost much more initially, and had also been modified some years ago by Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio (Electrocompaniet ECD-1, with Turbomod).
  
 The Gungnir is amazing, for its price point.  I must admit, after reflection, perhaps I asked a bit too much of it - pitting it directly against the ECD-1+.  Here's the lowdown:
  
 Gungnir significantly improves bass response and slam over the ECD-1+, especially through the big Maggies and Velodyne F15 servo-sub.  It also at least equals the musical soundstage as presented through either the Maggies or the Stax Omega IIs, with slightly better placement of sonic components along the horizontal and front-to-back axes.  It does so many things so frickin' well, I was almost ready to say it was THE budget replacement for the old Electrocompaniet.  For most of a week it just kept impressing me.
  
 Then, I kept listening, and... it finally ran up against its match.  This happened when it came to Lisa Gerrard's subtle vocals (kind of buried under the percussive mix in "In The Beginning Was The Word' ("Departum" album))  I A/B'ed the two DACs with the Stax Omega IIs in very near real time.  To put it bluntly, Lisa just kind of _disappeared_ when I switched in the Gungnir.  All the rest of the tracks of this complex mix were fine, but she just kind of lost her sense of palpable 3d within the vocal mix there.  Sort of an upper midrange suck-out.  I could hear something of her voice track in there, but it wasn't really fully present, properly rendered, as it was through the ECD-+.  The only way I can describe it, it was kind of like a paper doll cut-out rendering of Lisa's voice, to be brutally frank.   The bass still was a bit _better and tighter_ through the Gungnir, but the presence was definitely missing in that vital upper midrange.  If I just listened to the rest of the mix, the Gungnir actually held its own, or even bested the old Electrocompaniet.  There are some absolutes this Gungnir gets so very right.  But it just didn't quite deliver the full package.  So this isn't so much a slam of the Gungnir, as it is my affirmation that the Schiit folks really do have their schiit together, missing only that very narrow band of female vocal rendering in this mid-priced DAC - and now - - I can't wait to hear the Yggy!
  
 Really, in case this sounds harsh against the Gungnir, I'm saying this DAC pretty much rocks most of the bandwidth of most music (and, honestly, it took me more than a week to parse this weakness out.)   For most users, listening to _most_ music, it would be difficult to improve upon the sound of this DAC without spending a helluva lot more money.
  
 I, however, will wait for the Yggy.  From what I hear, I expect that it will not disappoint me.  I would give the Gungnir a *solid B+ overall*.  Truly a great effort at this price point.


----------



## Erukian

I've had my Gun+Mjo for a couple years and recently picked up a Audioquest Dragonfly for a portable work rig when I'm in the office. I can't believe how smooth and natural the Sabre DAC in it sounds. Hopefully Jason/Mike consider creating a ESS Sabre DAC board option for the Gungnir in the future, if it's even possible.
  
 Is the consensus that the AKM Dacs more analytical in nature?


----------



## Solude

AKM DACs are very warm and natural sounding.  What you're hearing is the Mjolnir.  Schiit won't touch the ESS since upsampling is evil!


----------



## conquerator2

Sold the Gungnir... Purchased an X12 today. Shipping out one while waiting to receive the other.
 Don't forsake me, the Gungnir just wasn't for me even though I really wanted to like it


----------



## auvgeek

^^I'm VERY interested in the comparison between the X12 and Gungnir. One of those two will likely be my next DAC.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

auvgeek said:


> ^^I'm VERY interested in the comparison between the X12 and Gungnir. One of those two will likely be my next DAC.




+1


----------



## conquerator2

Sure. I expect them to be quite different though


----------



## Arnotts

I'm pretty intrigued myself, seeing as both the Gungnir and X12 get rated very highly by those who own them.
  
 I've never properly auditioned other DACs in the X12's price range to properly compare any myself. I'd like to once I (finally) receive the Geek Pulse, though!


----------



## conquerator2

I'll make sure to report back on that. I also wonder how I find them to compare


----------



## EscritorJuan

I heard rave reviews on the Gungnir from a dealer that sells the Meitner MA-1 and EMM Labs DAC 2X.  He said that, frankly, he couldn't understand how they could pack such performance in for their relatively low price.  He also pointed out that Schiit is slated to put out a reference level DAC at some point.  My interest piqued, I contacted Schiit, and their contact person said that they were working on it and were planning on coming out with it soon.  It's been a while.  When and if they come up with their reference DAC, I will be curious to hear how that fares!
  
 In the meanwhile, I'm enjoying a very good DAC, myself.


----------



## reddog

conquerator2 said:


> I'll make sure to report back on that. I also wonder how I find them to compare



Sweet looking forward for your impressions.


----------



## Byrnie

escritorjuan said:


> I heard rave reviews on the Gungnir from a dealer that sells the Meitner MA-1 and EMM Labs DAC 2X.  He said that, frankly, he couldn't understand how they could pack such performance in for their relatively low price.  He also pointed out that Schiit is slated to put out a reference level DAC at some point.  My interest piqued, I contacted Schiit, and their contact person said that they were working on it and were planning on coming out with it soon.  It's been a while.  When and if they come up with their reference DAC, I will be curious to hear how that fares!
> 
> In the meanwhile, I'm enjoying a very good DAC, myself.


 
 yea you're referring to the Yggdrasil that has been talked about and heard by a lot of people so far


----------



## EscritorJuan

Thanks for the tip.  It's too bad Schiit didn't update their listing of products to reflect their creation of their new reference DAC.  This is what I've been checking on and off for the last year and, as of yet, it's still not listed under their existing product offerings.  _That's why I didn't see it.  _


----------



## HeyWaj10

Smart manufacturers do not post products on their website (or lineup) that, to everyday consumers, does not yet exist. If it can't be bought, why include it to the public universe on their page?


----------



## DSNORD

EscritorJuan,

Check out this review link on their site. It's the only info I can find that they have posted to date. 

http://schiit.com/news/review/yggdrasil

Mike talks details about the Yggie here as well as on a couple pages previously:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/667711/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil/4950

DSN


----------



## LilAdamMCLA

Hey guys!  Ive been lurking around Head-Fi for quite some time and now Ive finally got myself a nice setup put together.  Was running a pair of T1's on a Valhalla/Modi stack up until about two weeks ago when I was fortunate enough to have acquired myself a broken Gungnir secondhand on eBay.  The poor thing had been dropped, the BNC jack broke and one of the transformers snapped clean off the mainboard.  Ive actually managed to repair it with a little dumb luck, solder, a zip tie, and more than a few painful finger tips!  So now my modi is sitting aside while Im rocking out on my sub-$250(!!) Gungnir! =D
  
 Now that Im done bragging, I do have a question.  Ive tried searching the thread and there were a few answers but no definite way of telling that I could find.  Im looking to find out if Im running USB Gen 1 or Gen 2 in this thing.  How would would go about finding out?  I have photos of the unit opened up so if someone can show me something to compare the USB board to it would be extremely helpful!
  
 Thanks!  Enjoying reading up on the forums and seeing how deep the rabbit hole goes!


----------



## RCBinTN

Hi All,
 New to the thread.  I own the M/G stack and love the sound.
 However, I am experiencing issues with the Gungnir DAC dropping out on USB.
 The DAC will k/o for a couple of seconds, and then will kick back on, by itself.  Nothing is being touched during this event.  Just listening to the music.
 I've tried to make it happen, by shaking the USB cable around, wiggling the plugs, and etc.  Can't make it happen on my own.
 This behavior has been observed with both the PYST USB cable and AQ Evergreen and Cinnamon USB cables.
 The driver is a 2014 MacBook pro with 3.0 series USB ports.  No powered USB hub in between.
  
 Any theories or advice?  Thanks for your help -
  
 Cheers,
 RCBinTN


----------



## LilAdamMCLA

Well, strictly from a diagnostic point of view, I'd see about hooking it up to a Windows PC and see what it does.  If it works okay then that narrows it down to either an issue with your computer or with macs in general. Another thing that's good to look into(I'm a windows guy so bear with me), is to see if your system has some sort of power saving setting buried somewhere that turns off the power to your usb ports after a set time.  It's been known to affect some things and not others so worth trying.
  
 One last thing worth trying just for the sake of argument is to see if you can somehow run it off one of the other inputs and see if they have the same issue.  Not sure how you'd have to go about trying that part out though.  Suppose it could always be the USB interface card on the Gungnir that's failing.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## AudioBear

No issue with that model of Mac in general but your suggestion to swap the computer out and see if the problem persists is a good one.  If it does the same thing on another computer (Windows or Mac) that would suggest it's the DAC.  
  
 As suggested, check the settings in the energy saver control panel.  Mine doesn't shut down ports but settings could be different.
  
 In the worst of worlds the computer and DAC both work perfectly but not with each other. Just hope it's not that gremlin.


----------



## RCBinTN

Thanks for the tips.
 I've divorced myself from Windows (for music) and only using the Mac now.
 Kinda nice - no Schiit driver required 
 Any advice about Mac settings to make the USB's more powerful?  I fished around but am hesitant to start making changes to the OS...
  
 Best -
 RCB


----------



## David Aldrich

Do you notice if the audio output device of the Mac changes when the Gungnir drops out?
  
 Shouldn't be a power issue, my Gungnir only pulls 100mA off the port.
  
 What player are you using?


----------



## RCBinTN

david aldrich said:


> Do you notice if the audio output device of the Mac changes when the Gungnir drops out?
> 
> Shouldn't be a power issue, my Gungnir only pulls 100mA off the port.
> 
> What player are you using?


 
  
 No, haven't been watching the Mac display, but the sound comes out of the Mac speakers for a second or two, then back to the DAC.
 Player - iTunes
 Tonight I'm using the Toslink optical connection - w/o issues.
  
 Thanks -
 RCB


----------



## davidflas

I don't know if this is helpful, but I have been a Gungnir and Mac owner for a couple of years, and have never had issues when connecting the DAC to my 2012 MacBook Pro with USB 3.0 via a 10' Monoprice USB cable. I've also used Monoprice optical cables to good effect, but moved to USB so that I could listen to 24/192 tracks.


----------



## DSNORD

RCB,

Do yourself a favor and check out Pure Music by ChannelD. $129. Phenomenal player which sits on top of iTunes and plays just about any format imaginable including DSD and FLAC from memory so there is no issue with quality loss by the Mac/iTunes doing things on the fly. I DEFINITELY hear a HUGE difference in quality when I A/B between the two or when I upsample or not. It wins most reviews I've read comparing it to other players. Upgrading to it compared to native iTunes has done as much for my SQ as upgrading any individual piece of audio hardware in my system. I'm presently outputting from it to a Wyrd to a Gungnir to a Ragnarok to KEF LS50s and LCD-X. I'm just outside Heaven. The talk on the street is that the Yggdrasil gets me finally through the Gates!!!!

DSN


----------



## David Aldrich

Somethings wrong if there is a sonic difference between iTunes and ChannelD. ChannelD may be adding some EQ or DSP effects, that's weird to me.


----------



## Khragon

Just received my Gungnir, and comparing it to the Modi 2 Uber.  I'm surprise the M2U can hold it's own, when I listen to slow vocal tracks I'll be hard press to find any differences between Gungnir and M2U.  However when I switched to classical with multiple instruments going on a medium to fast pace, the Gungnir shines, clear instrument separations, more weight to the lower frequencies, and just over paint a more vivid picture.  I like the Game of Thrones sound track and listening to the main title I can feel the drums and the other instruments (don't know their names) better.  Hope that make sense, I'm not very good at describing what I hear.
  
 One question, I read some where on the forum that Gungnir USB background noise is noticeable at around 75% volume, I do experience that when cracking up to volume to that level.  Modi 2 Uber has a lower noise floor.  Is what I'm hearing consistent with what you guys are observing?


----------



## David Aldrich

The Gungnir does have much higher voltage rails, an increased noise floor wouldn't be inconsistent with that.
  
 I would expect that the noise floor is not noticeable at normal listening to high listening levels.


----------



## DSNORD

There's nothing "wrong" with there being a difference with iTunes output being inferior to that by Pure Music. Spend some time reading up on what it does compared to iTunes alone at Channel D's website as well as reading the multiple reviews by various publications. 

I don't work for either company. I can tell you there is a major difference if you have QUALITY components down stream. 

DSN


----------



## David Aldrich

As long as you know that it's using DSP to change the sound and you like that, it's fine, it is not however bit perfect from the recording.


----------



## vc1187

Just got a second hand Gungnir with Gen 2 USB.
  
 I must say that it is fantastic when paired with the Zana Deux and HD650.  In this configuration, I prefer it over the NAD M51 as a DAC.  I think the PRAT is really what gives the Gungnir an edge over the M51 in this instance.  It's also extremely easy to listen to without a hint of harshness.
  
 I didn't like the Gungnir as much with the HD800.  I feel like it lacks the finesse and soundstage that the M51 provides.  While there is more body to its sound, it doesn't sound as natural as the M51 does.  The Gungnir is also pretty good at revealing micro-detail, but it does so in a way that is sort of unnatural.  Instead of giving a hint of micro-detail, it makes it very evident to where it almost seems like the volume on these minute details is heightened and brought center stage.  Don't get me wrong, the Gungnir and HD800 combo is not bad and had I not heard the M51 paired with the HD800, I'd be perfectly okay with this setup. 
  
 All in all, the DAC is fantastic, and for its price tag, a steal!


----------



## coinmaster

Anyone compared this dac to the audio-gb nfb-1 ?


----------



## olor1n

vc1187 said:


> Just got a second hand Gungnir with Gen 2 USB.
> 
> I must say that it is fantastic when paired with the Zana Deux and HD650.  In this configuration, I prefer it over the NAD M51 as a DAC.  I think the PRAT is really what gives the Gungnir an edge over the M51 in this instance.  It's also extremely easy to listen to without a hint of harshness.
> 
> ...




Your findings mirror my own. For me, the NAD M51 was a clear upgrade over the Gungnir. More finesse and more natural. I found the Gungnir too lively for the HD800. It's impressive on initial listen, particularly when listening with warmer, more mellow cans like the HD650 or LCD-2. For the HD800 I ultimately found it grating. I felt it was shouting all the time, lacking a deft touch when the recording called for it. And like you, I also felt the rendition of micro-details a bit forced.


----------



## Khragon

Solved my noise problem with the Gungnir for $15 bucks:
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4784&seq=1&format=2
  
 Apparently the XLR out is alot cleaner than the RCA out, look like schiit went cheap on their SE circuit.


----------



## LilAdamMCLA

Ooh those cables are really nice. Think Im gonna order two of the 1.5ft ones for mine and see how they go!


----------



## AudioBear

Monoprice has great stuff.  I use their XLR interconnects on my HT system and they are incredibly well made and a steal at the price.


----------



## conquerator2

Is there any benefit in using a cable though? The connection is still unbalanced in the end, even when using a balanced output prior. Is such a connection safe?
 I guess there's no harm in doing it as long as there's some gain


----------



## Khragon

For me the benefit is a heck of a lot lower noise floor.  Been listening to it all night, no issue.


----------



## LilAdamMCLA

And myself, I really just think they look cool. haha


----------



## David Aldrich

I don't hear the noise floor at my normal listening levels but I grabbed some cables and ran the left channel from the balanced out and the right channel from single ended. It's a world of difference.
  
 I'm not sure this'll change my setup until I pick a balanced amp but it's interesting no less.


----------



## hodgjy

david aldrich said:


> I don't hear the noise floor at my normal listening levels but I grabbed some cables and ran the left channel from the balanced out and the right channel from single ended. It's a world of difference.
> 
> I'm not sure this'll change my setup until I pick a balanced amp but it's interesting no less.


 
 Noise or other difference?  My amp accepts balanced even though it's a SE out, so if the Gung is better as balanced out, I may consider migrating from my Bifrost.


----------



## David Aldrich

Only noticed a noise difference but it was a very brief test. I haven't actually checked a Bifrost to compare it.


----------



## hodgjy

david aldrich said:


> Only noticed a noise difference but it was a very brief test. I haven't actually checked a Bifrost to compare it.


 
 If it's only noise at non-listening levels, I'm not going to worry too much about it.


----------



## David Aldrich

I would be concerned about damaging the headphones if I played music at the levels I get noise at. Not to mention deafening myself.


----------



## conquerator2

I believe XLR does have higher noise rejection and double the output V. Anyway, I'll get myself an RCA-XLR cable and see 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 I am not expecting anything but I guess the XLR outputs might be better in case cases than RCA output, even though they're going into an RCA input,
 Should have probably tried that with my Gungnir. Oh, well


----------



## Liu Junyuan

I have always wondered this too. Both the Schiit site and Purrin's review say that the Gungnir tops the Bifrost "even in single ended mode", which seems to imply that xlr would be an improvement. 

Since I am getting the Gustard H10 with balanced inputs, I will finally be able to test this myself and shall report back my findings. 

A thanks for the Monoprice endorsement as I don't want to spend a lot on interconnects.


----------



## conquerator2

I am not exactly sure where the H10 lies but I think gear designed to be used balanced is _supposed to_ sound better that way. Dunno, as as I said, my amp is SE. I just wonder whether giving the 'balanced' amp an XLR-RCA cable can trick it into the _better performance mode._
 I am curios about what you think about the H10 though. I am still happy with my SA31SE


----------



## Liu Junyuan

After checking back at the site, I misspoke. I could not find any information comparing SE and XLR output from the Gungnir. I know that Purrin did say that though. 
  
 Yes, I would imagine that too, but I usually read that in regards to XLR output from a balanced amp designed to run balanced (i.e. NFB-28, Oppo HA-1, Master 9, Ragnarok).


----------



## Liu Junyuan

olor1n said:


> Your findings mirror my own. For me, the NAD M51 was a clear upgrade over the Gungnir. More finesse and more natural. I found the Gungnir too lively for the HD800. It's impressive on initial listen, particularly when listening with warmer, more mellow cans like the HD650 or LCD-2. For the HD800 I ultimately found it grating. I felt it was shouting all the time, lacking a deft touch when the recording called for it. And like you, I also felt the rendition of micro-details a bit forced.


 
 Thank you for your helpful comparison of the Gungnir and the NAD M51, which I promptly researched after reading this and the penultimate post. 
  
 I am just curious if you had the USB gen 2 upgrade for the Gungnir before you switched?


----------



## Khragon

david aldrich said:


> I don't hear the noise floor at my normal listening levels but I grabbed some cables and ran the left channel from the balanced out and the right channel from single ended. It's a world of difference.
> 
> I'm not sure this'll change my setup until I pick a balanced amp but it's interesting no less.


 
 Good to know you can hear the difference too.  To me, difference between XLR and RCA out is higher volume, much lower noise, and wider sound stage, which could comes from the higher volume, but I tried to volume match switching back and forth between XLR<->RCA and still hear wider sound stage.


----------



## RCBinTN

dsnord said:


> RCB,
> 
> Do yourself a favor and check out Pure Music by ChannelD. $129. Phenomenal player which sits on top of iTunes and plays just about any format imaginable including DSD and FLAC from memory so there is no issue with quality loss by the Mac/iTunes doing things on the fly. I DEFINITELY hear a HUGE difference in quality when I A/B between the two or when I upsample or not. It wins most reviews I've read comparing it to other players. Upgrading to it compared to native iTunes has done as much for my SQ as upgrading any individual piece of audio hardware in my system. I'm presently outputting from it to a Wyrd to a Gungnir to a Ragnarok to KEF LS50s and LCD-X. I'm just outside Heaven. The talk on the street is that the Yggdrasil gets me finally through the Gates!!!!
> 
> DSN


 
  
 Thanks for the idea.  Will check it out.
  
 Most of my music is compressed into 256 AAC or 320 MPG formats, to save space on the computer.  I have some music that is 1411 AIFF ripped directly from CD's but not much.  I do hear a difference between the 256/320 files and the 1411 files, but not much difference.
  
 I have not noted a difference in the DAC k/o's between the different music formats.
  
 Just for my info, can you please describe how the Pure Music system can improve the SQ from the AAC or MPG formats, that are already compressed files on my computer?
  
 Best regards,
 RCBinTN


----------



## olor1n

liu junyuan said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > Your findings mirror my own. For me, the NAD M51 was a clear upgrade over the Gungnir. More finesse and more natural. I found the Gungnir too lively for the HD800. It's impressive on initial listen, particularly when listening with warmer, more mellow cans like the HD650 or LCD-2. For the HD800 I ultimately found it grating. I felt it was shouting all the time, lacking a deft touch when the recording called for it. And like you, I also felt the rendition of micro-details a bit forced.
> ...




I was an early Gungnir adopter - so gen 1. The person I replied to has the gen 2 upgrade and still came to the same conclusion.


----------



## DSNORD

RCB,

In my studies, one of the hotly contested items I've come across is hearing a difference with music being read off a disc and being output on the fly versus reading music into memory first before outputting it. The thought process is that all the disc activity going on during the read/output cycle is eliminated by getting everything into RAM first which cuts down on the potential badness. This is something that I can hear as an obvious improvement when I have done careful A-B testing with my setup. 

Using a solid state drive and different buses for input and output are also felt by many to be better ways to go, ie, use FireWire in and USB out or vice versa but never both the same. 

Read the FAQs and System Setup pages on Pure Music's site to get better explanations than I am providing. I personally just use USB for both input to and output from the Mini, and I haven't gotten so anal as to dedicate the Mini solely to music running a stripped down system like some do. I do notice dropouts at times though if I'm doing computationally intensive stuff while listening at the same time, so I shut down my SETI at Home screen saver to cut down on the hiccups. Surfing the net or writing a Word doc doesn't create any issues though. 

Would things be even better if I did all the little tweaks suggested? Maybe. But things sound so good to me now that I haven't felt the need to try to squeeze out 2 more drops of goodness for these 58.5 year old ears that can't hear anything over about 10.5 kHz and have some holes in the remaining spectrum because of barotrauma from scuba diving and aging. 

DSN


----------



## David Aldrich

If thats true my setup must be just shy of perfect.
  
 Sata to PCIe connected RAID 0 HDD array
 USB to DAC
 6 cores with hyper threading and 16GB of RAM.


----------



## LilAdamMCLA

It seems we've moved on from my original post which was asking how to tell if my Gungnir was usb gen 1 or 2.  I have finally found the answer here on head-fi in a separate thread from Jason Stoddard himself.
  
*How can I tell if I have the Gen 2 USB board?*
 When using the Schiit Unified drivers on our site with PCs, or plugged into a Mac, it will give you the 24/176.4 output option.
  
 How I missed this before is on me but hey if anyone was wondering, here ya go!


----------



## conquerator2

^ So, which is it?


----------



## LilAdamMCLA

I am happy to say I have the Gen 2! =D


----------



## davidvanderbilt

Sadly I'm parting ways with my Gungnir and am selling it in the for sale forum. I can definitely see why some would love this DAC but in the end it just wasn't for me.


----------



## vc1187

davidvanderbilt said:


> Sadly I'm parting ways with my Gungnir and am selling it in the for sale forum. I can definitely see why some would love this DAC but in the end it just wasn't for me.






I love this DAC with the HD650


----------



## Khragon

liladammcla said:


> It seems we've moved on from my original post which was asking how to tell if my Gungnir was usb gen 1 or 2.  I have finally found the answer here on head-fi in a separate thread from Jason Stoddard himself.
> 
> *How can I tell if I have the Gen 2 USB board?*
> When using the Schiit Unified drivers on our site with PCs, or plugged into a Mac, it will give you the 24/176.4 output option.
> ...


 
 Are you sure this is the way to check, I'm on a Windows machine and I don't see 24/176.4 from the driver properties.
 I do see 16/176.4.


----------



## amnesiac75

khragon said:


> Are you sure this is the way to check, I'm on a Windows machine and I don't see 24/176.4 from the driver properties.
> I do see 16/176.4.


same here on a windows 7 machine I have 16/176400 but no 24/176400 and mine is Gen 2 usb


----------



## Solude

Windows 7 does not show that rate.  I believe they mentioned Windows 8.  Or you could set your player to 24/176 and WASAPI and you either get sound... or you don't.


----------



## Khragon

I use win7 on the desktop, glad to hear you guys are seeing the same thing. I connected the gungnir to my win8 laptop and still don't see 24/176.4, I do see additional 32bit output though, still only 16/176.4 as as far as 176.4 is concern


----------



## Khragon

Schiit cleared the issue for me with the following instruction:
  
*Gen 1:*
  

  

  
  
  
  
*Gen 2:*


----------



## Liu Junyuan

khragon said:


> Schiit cleared the issue for me with the following instruction:
> 
> *Gen 1:*
> 
> ...




That is very helpful. Thank you for asking and reporting back.


----------



## LilAdamMCLA

Wow it seems there are actually multiple differences we can look for. sweet. mine is definitely gen 2 and this double confirms it which is always fun


----------



## purrin

liu junyuan said:


> After checking back at the site, I misspoke. I could not find any information comparing SE and XLR output from the Gungnir. I know that Purrin did say that though.
> 
> Yes, I would imagine that too, but I usually read that in regards to XLR output from a balanced amp designed to run balanced (i.e. NFB-28, Oppo HA-1, Master 9, Ragnarok).


 
  
 Difference between SE and balanced outs does exist, but is not huge and varies by amplifier. Some amps like true balanced inputs more than others. So lots of variables. I hear more fine microdetail and imaging is more precise.
  
 The comparison with M51 by others is accurate. M51 has more finesse with the softer sounds. Gungnir tends to drop or render the softer sounders louder. Gungnir stage is also more compact. I found these much alleviated by Wyrd. Also I do not like Gungnir HD800 combination, but that could be that I don't really care for HD800 any in combination. Gungnir slams hard with strong attacks. In combination with the HD800's 6k peak, not a good thing. Too aggressive - sort of glare and hard sound. I like the Gungnir for its vocal rendering and smooth non-grainy high-end. The M51's high-end is grainier, but is rendered with a silky quality which isn't too bothersome unlike many other delta-sigma DACs. The Gungir is a little behind in terms of resolving capability compared to other DACs in its price range.
  
 Gungnir should be left on at all times. The sound is less aggressive - warmer/more laid-back if left on for a long period of time.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

purrin said:


> Difference between SE and balanced outs does exist, but is not huge and varies by amplifier. Some amps like true balanced inputs more than others. So lots of variables. I hear more fine microdetail and imaging is more precise.
> 
> The comparison with M51 by others is accurate. M51 has more finesse with the softer sounds. Gungnir tends to drop or render the softer sounders louder. Gungnir stage is also more compact. I found these much alleviated by Wyrd. Also I do not like Gungnir HD800 combination, but that could be that I don't really care for HD800 any in combination. Gungnir slams hard with strong attacks. In combination with the HD800's 6k peak, not a good thing. Too aggressive - sort of glare and hard sound. I like the Gungnir for its vocal rendering and smooth non-grainy high-end. The M51's high-end is grainier, but is rendered with a silky quality which isn't too bothersome unlike many other delta-sigma DACs. The Gungir is a little behind in terms of resolving capability compared to other DACs in its price range.
> 
> Gungnir should be left on at all times. The sound is less aggressive - warmer/more laid-back if left on for a long period of time.


 
 Thank you for responding; that was very helpful. I will be able to try balanced input in two weeks when I receive my Gustard H10 amplifier. 
  
 Does the Bifrost Uber also have this quality of rendering softer sounds louder, or is it a feature of Gungnir only?
  
 Also, which headphones do you prefer to the HD800, if I may ask?


----------



## LilAdamMCLA

khragon said:


> Solved my noise problem with the Gungnir for $15 bucks:
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4784&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Apparently the XLR out is alot cleaner than the RCA out, look like schiit went cheap on their SE circuit.


 

 I don't know if Im crazy or not but I feel like using these cables from the XLR output even though they go to RCA on my Valhalla seems to have taken away some of the harshness to a lot of rock music that I would normally have stayed away from.  Will have to do a comparison later and see if its just placebo effect.  Either way, love these cables so far so Im sticking with them.  Great length for this setup and surprisingly flexible compared to the RCA's I was running previously.   Very well made.


----------



## joebobbilly

purrin said:


> Difference between SE and balanced outs does exist, but is not huge and varies by amplifier. Some amps like true balanced inputs more than others. So lots of variables. I hear more fine microdetail and imaging is more precise.
> 
> The comparison with M51 by others is accurate. *M51* has more finesse with the softer sounds. Gungnir tends to drop or render the softer sounders louder. Gungnir stage is also more compact. I found these much alleviated by Wyrd. Also I do not like Gungnir HD800 combination, but that could be that I don't really care for HD800 any in combination. Gungnir slams hard with strong attacks. In combination with the HD800's 6k peak, not a good thing. Too aggressive - sort of glare and hard sound. I like the Gungnir for its vocal rendering and smooth non-grainy high-end. The M51's high-end is grainier, but is rendered with a silky quality which isn't too bothersome unlike many other delta-sigma DACs. *The Gungir is a little behind in terms of resolving capability compared to other DACs in its price range.*
> 
> Gungnir should be left on at all times. The sound is less aggressive - warmer/more laid-back if left on for a long period of time.


 
  
 Correct me if I'm wrong... but doesn't the NAD M51 cost over twice as much as the Gungnir? Please do enlighten us as to which bitperfect balanced DAC is available for under $1000 with more resolving capability. It would be nice to know if I can have the next upgrade in sight.


----------



## David Aldrich

I don't understand why Windows has such awful USB audio support.
  
 USB Gen 2 on OS X.


----------



## olor1n

joebobbilly said:


> purrin said:
> 
> 
> > Difference between SE and balanced outs does exist, but is not huge and varies by amplifier. Some amps like true balanced inputs more than others. So lots of variables. I hear more fine microdetail and imaging is more precise.
> ...




The NAD M51 was the same price bracket as the Gungnir when I upgraded a few years ago. The M51 is now available below $1k in Australia making it a cheaper option than the Schiit dac.

So while your post implies the amazing value of the Gungnir in light of NAD's pricing in the US, the inverse is true in Australia given the M51's pricing and the markup on other dacs in this market.


----------



## vc1187

olor1n said:


> The NAD M51 was the same price bracket as the Gungnir when I upgraded a few years ago. The M51 is now available below $1k in Australia making it a cheaper option than the Schiit dac.
> 
> So while your post implies the amazing value of the Gungnir in light of NAD's pricing in the US, the inverse is true in Australia given the M51's pricing and the markup on other dacs in this market.


 
 Wow, that is news to me.  I think in terms of technicalities and features, the M51 has the upper hand... That makes the M51 an extremely good budget performer in AUS.
  
 While I say this, I'm contemplating selling my HD800 (again!)  I built another Crack this past weekend, the last one being in 2012.  Upon listening to it with the HD650 and the Gungnir as the DAC, I can say that with all of the poorly recorded music I listen to that I mostly enjoy this setup over my main, which consists of the M51 -> ZD -> HD800.  The Gungnir certainly gives the HD650 the energy that it needs, and the BHC just builds upon that for a superb pairing.  I've come to the conclusion that my relationship with the HD800 is a love/hate relationship. 
  
 I still won't be selling the M51 though, as that serves its purpose far better than the Gungnir for a speaker setup


----------



## purrin

joebobbilly said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong... but doesn't the NAD M51 cost over twice as much as the Gungnir? Please do enlighten us as to which bitperfect balanced DAC is available for under $1000 with more resolving capability. It would be nice to know if I can have the next upgrade in sight.


 
  
 If under $1000, I would be stumped., X-Sabre at $1099 (which I consider same price braket) is definitely more resolving than Gungnir, but also a different almost opposite sound. For some reason, I thought NAD M51 was within playing field of Gungnir at $1500. I guess it's still $2000 in the USA.


----------



## korzena

purrin said:


> If under $1000, I would be stumped., X-Sabre at $1099 (which I consider same price braket) is definitely more resolving than Gungnir, but also a different almost opposite sound. For some reason, I thought NAD M51 was within playing field of Gungnir at $1500. I guess it's still $2000 in the USA.


 
 Do you mean M51 is not more resolving than Gungnir? I've just been considering buying this DAC used (as an upgrade replacing my Bifrost).
 Or should I better look for another DAC within $1000 price range?


----------



## joebobbilly

Yea sadly in Canada the NAD M51 is way more costly. Otherwise I would have easily considered it as an upgrade back then. Just right now for double the asking price of Gungnir it's hard for me to even consider in the same league.


----------



## purrin

korzena said:


> Do you mean M51 is not more resolving than Gungnir? I've just been considering buying this DAC used (as an upgrade replacing my Bifrost).
> Or should I better look for another DAC within $1000 price range?


 
  
  I mean M51 is more resolving, in the same playing field in terms of price if $1500 - but I guess that's not true in Canada/USA. I had been hoping NAD would price it well at $1500 here.


----------



## RCBinTN

olor1n said:


> The NAD M51 was the same price bracket as the Gungnir when I upgraded a few years ago. The M51 is now available below $1k in Australia making it a cheaper option than the Schiit dac.
> 
> So while your post implies the amazing value of the Gungnir in light of NAD's pricing in the US, the inverse is true in Australia given the M51's pricing and the markup on other dacs in this market.


 
  
 The M51 is US$ 2,000 new in the US.
  
 http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Jj89cMRamgw/p_745M51/NAD-Masters-Series-M51-Silver.html


----------



## RCBinTN

Just received my Wyrd in the last days, and tested it yesterday with the Macbook Pro and Gungnir.  No issues with the Gung dropping out like in the past with USB feed.  Seems that Nick at Schiit was right - the USB signal from the Mac wasn't strong enough to consistently run the DAC.  Now I'm a happy camper.


----------



## Mr Rick

rcbintn said:


> Just received my Wyrd in the last days, and tested it yesterday with the Macbook Pro and Gungnir.  No issues with the Gung dropping out like in the past with USB feed.  Seems that Nick at Schiit was right - the USB signal from the Mac wasn't strong enough to consistently run the DAC.  Now I'm a happy camper.


 
  
 Nick knows his Schiit. LOL


----------



## David Aldrich

rcbintn said:


> Just received my Wyrd in the last days, and tested it yesterday with the Macbook Pro and Gungnir.  No issues with the Gung dropping out like in the past with USB feed.  Seems that Nick at Schiit was right - the USB signal from the Mac wasn't strong enough to consistently run the DAC.  Now I'm a happy camper.


 

 I've been noticing that Apple USB 3.0 XHCI drivers have troubles enumerating the USB device sometimes, a hub between the computer and DAC seems to fix the issue.


----------



## RCBinTN

david aldrich said:


> I've been noticing that Apple USB 3.0 XHCI drivers have troubles enumerating the USB device sometimes, a hub between the computer and DAC seems to fix the issue.


 
  
 Yeah, I was very surprised my Mac with the 3.0 USB's would not provide a consistent feed into the Gungnir 2.0 USB.
  
 I sent back two Audio Quest USB cables as being defective, Nick advised that it's not clearly-stated on the AQ web site that the cables are fully USB 2.0 compliant.  Now, I regret that decision.  I don't believe it was the cables' fault.  Just an interesting learning experience...
  
 Enjoy your music!!
 RCBinTN


----------



## David Aldrich

In my book you're better off spending that extra money on music and buying Monoprice, Amazon Basic, or Belkin Gold USB 2.0 cables.


----------



## RCBinTN

david aldrich said:


> In my book you're better off spending that extra money on music and buying Monoprice, Amazon Basic, or Belkin Gold USB 2.0 cables.


 
  
 Don't disagree, but the DAC drops were bothering me.  It even dropped with the PYST cable that Schiit claims is USB 2.0 capable.  One thing's for sure - I will not be purchasing expensive USB cables going forward...


----------



## David Aldrich

rcbintn said:


> Don't disagree, but the DAC drops were bothering me.  It even dropped with the PYST cable that Schiit claims is USB 2.0 capable.  One thing's for sure - I will not be purchasing expensive USB cables going forward...


 

 Definitely understandable, I find intermittent functionality far more frustrating than complete non-functionality.


----------



## porridgecup

Would the Gungnir work well with the Bryston BHA-1? I plan on using the BHA-1 and Gungnir (or whichever DAC I choose) with my LCD-2.2 and likely several future headphones.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

porridgecup said:


> Would the Gungnir work well with the Bryston BHA-1? I plan on using the BHA-1 and Gungnir (or whichever DAC I choose) with my LCD-2.2 and likely several future headphones.




I have no experience with that well-regarded amp, but I would imagine the pairing would work well. Perhaps equally important is the headphone youre pairing it with and your sonic preferences.


----------



## KLJTech

My best friend has the Bryston BHA-1 and we've used it in his system and mine (with the Gungnir) and they work very well together.


----------



## David Aldrich

Sounds like you need a Mjolnir to go head to head with his Bryston.


----------



## KLJTech

david aldrich said:


> Sounds like you need a Mjolnir to go head to head with his Bryston.


 
  
 Well, I prefer the Mjolnir but he was asking about the Gungnir DAC with the Bryston headphone amp.


----------



## porridgecup

Quote:


kljtech said:


> Well, I prefer the Mjolnir but he was asking about the Gungnir DAC with the Bryston headphone amp.


 
  
 Out of curiosity, what headphones have you used to compare the BHA-1 and Mjolnir, and what about the Mjolnir do you like more? I'm still deciding between the Mjolnir and BHA-1, but the majority of comments seem to suggest preference for the BHA-1.
  
 Also, I just ordered the Gungnir a few seconds ago. Should be a nice upgrade to my Modi.


----------



## Solude

porridgecup said:


> I'm still deciding between the Mjolnir and BHA-1, but the majority of comments seem to suggest preference for the BHA-1.


 
  
 Not what I've read but to each their own.  What I have read, only owned the Mjolnir, is that they are similar in tone and performance but the Mjolnir costs a lot less and can be snagged used pretty much any day.  Design wise it's important to remember that the Bryston is not balanced in to out, where the Schiit is even from a single ended input.


----------



## KLJTech

Bryston BDA-1Quote: 





porridgecup said:


> Out of curiosity, what headphones have you used to compare the BHA-1 and Mjolnir, and what about the Mjolnir do you like more? I'm still deciding between the Mjolnir and BHA-1, but the majority of comments seem to suggest preference for the BHA-1.
> 
> Also, I just ordered the Gungnir a few seconds ago. Should be a nice upgrade to my Modi.


 
  
 I've only listened to the two amps for a short period of time with the LCD-2's and HE-500's and _truly_ not long enough to make a fair decision between the two.
  
_I meant to type_ "I'd probably prefer" (my screw-up) based on what I heard, part of that is also because the rest of my source gear being from Schiit Audio...which truly isn't a great reason. I did replace a Bryston BDA-1 with a Gungnir Gen2 USB, I preferred the Gungnir in a system with a Parasound A21 driving Maggie 1.7's. 
  
 I'm sure that the BHA-1 is a great amp (Bryston makes quality gear) and I seriously doubt that you can go wrong with it or the Mjolnir. _I apologize for my typo_, I shouldn't try and chime in while working on something else at the same time.


----------



## hodgjy

porridgecup said:


> Also, I just ordered the Gungnir a few seconds ago. Should be a nice upgrade to my Modi.


 
 Did you get a delivery estimate? Their site has said they have been clearing backorders for months.


----------



## porridgecup

hodgjy said:


> Did you get a delivery estimate? Their site has said they have been clearing backorders for months.


 
  
 I did not get a specific estimate. However the message does say "STATUS: In production. Clearing backorders. Orders placed now are expected to ship in 5-7 business days." And the built-in shipping tool said around 5-7 business days for my location. If it still hasn't shipped after 7 business days, I'll probably ask for a refund.


----------



## hodgjy

porridgecup said:


> I did not get a specific estimate. However the message does say "STATUS: In production. Clearing backorders. Orders placed now are expected to ship in 5-7 business days." And the built-in shipping tool said around 5-7 business days for my location. If it still hasn't shipped after 7 business days, I'll probably ask for a refund.


 
 Thanks for the update.


----------



## porridgecup

Update 2: I received notification today that it has been shipped. So about 2 business day turnaround. Definitely a pleasant surprise.


----------



## hodgjy

porridgecup said:


> Update 2: I received notification today that it has been shipped. So about 2 business day turnaround. Definitely a pleasant surprise.


 
 Fantastic. Thanks for the update.


----------



## porridgecup

Probably a dumb question:
  
 I also bought the Bryston BHA-1 amp, which has balanced inputs and outputs. I know nothing of cabling or amps/DACs in general. I've already purchased a cable for my headphones to the amp.
  
 What balanced XLR cable would you guys recommend for connecting the Gungnir to it? Doesn't have to be very long.


----------



## DSNORD

Schiit Pyst or Monoprice XLR. I have both in various systems and they work well for minimal bucks.


----------



## hodgjy

Hosa makes decent and cheap XLR cables as well.


----------



## notsimar

wish the pyst xlr and rca cables from schiit were just a bit longer. Stacking the Gungnir and Ragnarok was a bit challenging with shelving so I had to stack them on top of each other.


----------



## reddog

notsimar said:


> wish the pyst xlr and rca cables from schiit were just a bit longer. Stacking the Gungnir and Ragnarok was a bit challenging with shelving so I had to stack them on top of each other.



Yes I wish the pyst XLR cable was longer. I will most likely by some longer XLR cables from mediabridge or from blue Jean cable company. How does your Gungnir sound with the Ragnarok?. I hope you have a good one jamming out.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

notsimar said:


> wish the pyst xlr and rca cables from schiit were just a bit longer. Stacking the Gungnir and Ragnarok was a bit challenging with shelving so I had to stack them on top of each other.




Just buy some Monoprice XLR interconnects. 3 foot and 5 foot are both going for $20 for 2 at amazon. I think the Pyst cables are more for the smaller stacks of Schiit.


----------



## reddog

liu junyuan said:


> Just buy some Monoprice XLR interconnects. 3 foot and 5 foot are both going for $20 for 2 at amazon. I think the Pyst cables are more for the smaller stacks of Schiit.



+1 What he said.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Just got my Gungnir w/ gen 2 USB working with a Raspberry Pi running shairport-sync. AirPlay streaming for about $50 in parts and a few hours of work. I'm thrilled with this -- quite a bargain compared to low-jitter streamers.
  
 My plan is to use this to bypass the AirPort streamer built-in to my Marantz, outputting to both the Marantz and a headphone amp -- avoiding the A-to-D-to-A in the Marantz.


----------



## Cheebamaster

*Can someone recommend a good Amplifier to go with the Gungnir? I was using the HDVA600 and the sound was WAY too bright for my taste. I'm selling the HDVA but want to keep the gungir if I can find a good match. Headphones will be the TH900. I also have the HD800 but they hurt my ears on this setup...thus the reason I want to try a different pairing.*
  
*Thanks!*


----------



## KLJTech

I'm using the Asgard 2 with the Gungnir, don't let the low price fool you into thinking it's not worthy. If you're looking for something with tubes and a ton of power you may want to try the Lyr 2. The original Lyr was the only amp I've ever used that truly brought my AKG K701's to life. I still have the Lyr, but I use the Asgard 2 every day, works great with IEM's on Low Gain and can drive most planar's when switched to High Gain. Great amp, very little money.


----------



## joebobbilly

In my experience testing out diff configurations with my friend's DACs and amps, it might likely be Gungnir that is a bit too energetic/bright. At least out of my stack, the Mjolnir is not the one at fault here for being a bit on the bright side.
  
 Perhaps then you're looking for a slightly warmer amp to mitigate some of the sharpness of the Gungnir?


----------



## Cheebamaster

joebobbilly said:


> In my experience testing out diff configurations with my friend's DACs and amps, it might likely be Gungnir that is a bit too energetic/bright. At least out of my stack, the Mjolnir is not the one at fault here for being a bit on the bright side.
> 
> Perhaps then you're looking for a slightly warmer amp to mitigate some of the sharpness of the Gungnir?


 
  
 Correct


----------



## joebobbilly

Personally, I borrowed my friend's HD800 for a good 2-3 weeks and found the superb with the M/G stack. Another option I suspect would be various tube amps simply cause tube rolling would allow you to tune and find your desired sound.


----------



## KLJTech

I believe that Jason Stoddard has stated that the Valhalla 2 works well with the HD800's and though it doesn't have the classic tube sound I'm willing to bet that the Valhalla 2 would give you the added warmth you seak. The Lyr is a hybrid yet it still gives me more warmth (and power/punch/dynamics) than "most" solid state amps.
  
 Don't forget that the version 2 of the Asgard, Valhalla and Lyr all offer high and low gain (great for using IEM's) and preamp outputs. That may not sound like a big deal, but I've found the Asgard 2 makes for a sweet sounding preamp in a full-size home stereo system. You can use also use any of these amps to drive powered speakers directly. 
  
 Gotta say that I've never found the Gungnir to sound bright. Obviously were all using different components and speakers/headphones but as the source to either my Magnepan 1.7's or one of my stand mount speakers, the B&W CDM-1NT's or 805N's (both use the Nautilus tweeter) I've never had any issues with the tonal balance of the Gungnir. 
  
 Adding tubes may be the best way to go in your situation. Good luck, I hope you find an amp that gives you what you're looking for.


----------



## Cheebamaster

kljtech said:


> I believe that Jason Stoddard has stated that the Valhalla 2 works well with the HD800's and though it doesn't have the classic tube sound I'm willing to bet that the Valhalla 2 would give you the added warmth you seak. The Lyr is a hybrid yet it still gives me more warmth (and power/punch/dynamics) than "most" solid state amps.
> 
> Don't forget that the version 2 of the Asgard, Valhalla and Lyr all offer high and low gain (great for using IEM's) and preamp outputs. That may not sound like a big deal, but I've found the Asgard 2 makes for a sweet sounding preamp in a full-size home stereo system. You can use also use any of these amps to drive powered speakers directly.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for that, you're the second person to tell me the Gungnir isn't a bright DAC. I think the issue just has to do with the combination and the Senns being picky. Will probably go with a WA6 SE and call it a day!


----------



## AudioBear

Everybody's ears and hearing are different.  When people hear something is bright, it sounds bright to them.  That doesn't mean it will sound bright to everyone. It's quite possible that the majority don't hear it as bright.
  
 I have often wondered after reading all the reviews on the forum if there are bigger differences between our ears than there is between audio gear. People on the forum acknowledge this when they say they prefer a particular reviewer's preferences so they listen to them.  I'd suggest you find a reviewer whose reviews seem to match your reactions to the same gear.


----------



## Solude

kljtech said:


> Gotta say that I've never found the Gungnir to sound bright.


 
  
 Because it isn't.  The Gungnir is bordering on dark.  Great match to an HD800 not so much for LCD.  Remembering of course that bright means a tonal balance shifted towards treble and not related to aggression or attack.


----------



## Gadget67

solude said:


> kljtech said:
> 
> 
> > Gotta say that I've never found the Gungnir to sound bright.
> ...




Interesting. I am using a mjolnir/gungir stack with LCD-X's and Moon balanced silver dragons (dual 3 pin XLR termination) and I am amazed at some of the results. For example, when I listen to Eva Cassidy "Live at Blues Alley" I literally feel like I'm there. I can close my eyes and feel the club atmosphere. I've not had an opportunity to listen to this combo with HD 800's so I can't comment on that. I've read other posts suggesting the Audeze headphones pair well with this combination and I obviously agree!


----------



## gefski

solude said:


> Remembering of course that bright means a tonal balance shifted towards treble and not related to aggression or attack.




YES!!! 

This jumped out at me because I've tried to explain it (frequently without success) to people many times.


----------



## Solude

gadget67 said:


> Interesting. I am using a mjolnir/gungir stack with LCD-X's and Moon balanced silver dragons (dual 3 pin XLR termination) and I am amazed at some of the results.


 
  
 The two really balance each other out.  Where the Gung is dark, the Mjol is bright... together neutral.  If you are running balanced headphones the combo is near impossible to beat $ for $.


----------



## Gadget67

solude said:


> gadget67 said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. I am using a mjolnir/gungir stack with LCD-X's and Moon balanced silver dragons (dual 3 pin XLR termination) and I am amazed at some of the results.
> ...




You've got that right!!! Nothing else I've tried is as good as this combination.


----------



## Khragon

liladammcla said:


> I don't know if Im crazy or not but I feel like using these cables from the XLR output even though they go to RCA on my Valhalla seems to have taken away some of the harshness to a lot of rock music that I would normally have stayed away from.  Will have to do a comparison later and see if its just placebo effect.  Either way, love these cables so far so Im sticking with them.  Great length for this setup and surprisingly flexible compared to the RCA's I was running previously.   Very well made.


 
 How's the XLR -> RCA cable been working out for you.  So far so good for me.   My problem now is I want to get a balanced SS amp to complement my WA5, and I'm not sure how I am going to use one XLR output to feed two amps.  Any ideas?


----------



## Solude

Y cable splitter or if the balanced amp has a pass through then you can connect it to the DAC and then continue on to the other amp.


----------



## Khragon

My tube amp isn't balanced, if I split it like that would it defeat the balanced capability going into the balanced SS amp?  Maybe it doesn't really matter, beside power I haven't really heard any difference at all between SE and balanced amp.


----------



## bflat

New Gungnir owner here,
  
 Any word on USB Gen 3 availability and rumors of DAC upgrades as well?


----------



## NoxNoctum

So I was reading through the Yggdrasil thread and a lot of people were saying it sounds signicantly better after being left on for several days. Has anyone noticed the same effect with the Gungnir?


----------



## Solude

Schiit has to be wishing they did not put that page in the manual.  I'll parrot what Moffat already said since... it's always been true of any audiophile product whether it be a dac or amp.  If you want the best out of your whatever... leave it on.  This is not a new revelation and I believe Pass has a white paper on it somewhere.  That said, it doesn't take days to warm up a conductive material with a constant heat source.  Overnight is more than enough.


----------



## KLJTech

I leave ALL my gear on all the time, the DAC, preamp, headphone amp and stereo amp. The subwoofer powers down on its own after 15-20 minutes or so. The Gungnir doesn't require much juice so I would just leave it on all the time. No worries.


----------



## NoxNoctum

So I wouldn't see a jump in my electric bill leaving it on like if I started using say, a window AC unit? 
  
 I split rent/utilities with a couple other people so I don't want to cause any problems there.


----------



## Jono338

Or you could not worry and just enjoy the music: it sounds bloody amazing from power on. I turn mine off if I'm not going to listen for more than an hour.
  
 I have a power monitor ... I'll check it on the weekend for its power draw and post the results.
  
 Jon


----------



## Solude

noxnoctum said:


> So I wouldn't see a jump in my electric bill leaving it on like if I started using say, a window AC unit?
> 
> I split rent/utilities with a couple other people so I don't want to cause any problems there.


 
  
 It's pennies a day to keep your entire audio system and pc running 24/7.  If it makes you feel bad throw them a $5 bill every couple of months


----------



## KLJTech

noxnoctum said:


> So I wouldn't see a jump in my electric bill leaving it on like if I started using say, a window AC unit?
> 
> I split rent/utilities with a couple other people so I don't want to cause any problems there.


 
  
 If I remember correctly, the Gungnir only consumes 20 watts...I doubt you'd notice a difference on your light bill if you left a 20 watt light bulb on so you should be fine. Good luck man, enjoy your music!


----------



## bflat

kljtech said:


> If I remember correctly, the Gungnir only consumes 20 watts...I doubt you'd notice a difference on your light bill if you left a 20 watt light bulb on so you should be fine. Good luck man, enjoy your music!


 

 I was going to ask how warm should the chassis get on a Gungnir, but at 20 watts, that answers my question. It should be normal to be pretty warm but not uncomfortably hot.


----------



## politbureau

Hey all,
  
 Gungnir owner here, and looking for some help getting an iPad mini (v1) working through USB with the Gen2 board. I get the 'too much power' message whenever I connect via the Apple Camera Adapter to either the Gungnir directly or through the Wyrd. Ditto on my iPhone 5s.
  
Looking for recommendations on a powered USB Hub that will allow me to use the iPad for streaming music, but also have enough power to charge it while in use.
  
I have a Gen1 802.11n Airport Express (A1264) that I've setup on it's own 5GHz network, and although it streams rock solid without dropouts, I get the "Buy Better Gear" light come on within 30s-2m after starting up a stream.
  
Thanks!


----------



## hifimckinney

Not sure if this would help but I bought http://www.ebay.com/itm/291272047369?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT and is connected to Gungnir via Toslink and I use AirPLay.


----------



## LilAdamMCLA

khragon said:


> How's the XLR -> RCA cable been working out for you.  So far so good for me.   My problem now is I want to get a balanced SS amp to complement my WA5, and I'm not sure how I am going to use one XLR output to feed two amps.  Any ideas?


 
 The cables have worked out great! Sound really doesn't seem to have been affected but I just plain like them better than the rca's I had. they just feel higher quality to me.  ive actually been looking at upgrading to mjolinir and having my T1's reterminated to XLR but really, I just don't need it yet lol. no idea how youd go about feeding two amps, id have to assume theres an xlr splitter or switchbox available that would do the trick.


----------



## LilAdamMCLA

bflat said:


> I was going to ask how warm should the chassis get on a Gungnir, but at 20 watts, that answers my question. It should be normal to be pretty warm but not uncomfortably hot.


 

 my gungnir gets a little warm but not remotely what id consider hot.  half the time I think the warmth is more caused by the Valhalla sitting on top of it. Now THAT gets HOT alright lol


----------



## politbureau

hifimckinney said:


> Not sure if this would help but I bought http://www.ebay.com/itm/291272047369?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT and is connected to Gungnir via Toslink and I use AirPLay.


 
 That's actually a great little box - thanks for the link! Do you know if the USB is an output and actually carries signal?
  
 I was also considering the Airenabler (http://airenabler.qnology.com/Home) which is the same thing, but works exclusively over USB. Not sure if this is an advantage or not (airplay is limited to 16/44.1 afterall), but it could be interesting as I can route the signal through my Wyrd to potentially remove some additional jitter, and reviews are pretty good.


----------



## hifimckinney

Since I do not have a USB DAC, I cannot tell you but based on my assumption as to how/why would somebody offer an USB out for $25, I would say 'no' to answer your question.


----------



## toddrhodes

I picked up a used Gungnir from a HF member the other day and have been using it in my listening room. It replaces a Loki (using JRiver upconverting all to DSD) and while it's a clear winner over the Loki, I did feel like it lacked a little life. It's very resolving, I'm hearing "deeper" into the music as they say. Soundstage is deeper and instrument separation is improved. So I've liked it all along but had been wondering about SPDIF inputs. I was running USB straight from my motherboard to the USB in on the Gung. I just went and grabbed an optical cable from the parts bin and tossed it in and so far, I like what I'm hearing! It's not a night and day difference but it does feel a bit more musical, if that makes any sense. I'd still like to try either an Uptone Regen or a Musiland USB/SPDIF converter at some point. Any suggestions as to what would be the better route? I've also thought of going with a decent PCIe sound card and using the SPDIF out of that but it seems you have to spend a great deal of money to get a card that clocks better than, say, the Musiland USD3. I am not using cans to listen, but rather a 2.1 conventional loudspeaker setup.


----------



## bflat

toddrhodes said:


> I picked up a used Gungnir from a HF member the other day and have been using it in my listening room. It replaces a Loki (using JRiver upconverting all to DSD) and while it's a clear winner over the Loki, I did feel like it lacked a little life. It's very resolving, I'm hearing "deeper" into the music as they say. Soundstage is deeper and instrument separation is improved. So I've liked it all along but had been wondering about SPDIF inputs. I was running USB straight from my motherboard to the USB in on the Gung. I just went and grabbed an optical cable from the parts bin and tossed it in and so far, I like what I'm hearing! It's not a night and day difference but it does feel a bit more musical, if that makes any sense. I'd still like to try either an Uptone Regen or a Musiland USB/SPDIF converter at some point. Any suggestions as to what would be the better route? I've also thought of going with a decent PCIe sound card and using the SPDIF out of that but it seems you have to spend a great deal of money to get a card that clocks better than, say, the Musiland USD3. I am not using cans to listen, but rather a 2.1 conventional loudspeaker setup.


 

 What USB version of Gungnir are you running? Purrin on the the infamous DAC thread mentioned a major improvement going from Gen 1 to 2. If you have 1, you can upgrade through Schiit, although they are likely to release Gen 3 at some point since it's already on the Yggy. If you decide to go all optical then you won't have to deal with USB and that must be just as good since Schiit sells with and without USB.


----------



## Solude

toddrhodes said:


> Any suggestions as to what would be the better route?


 
  
 It's important to know what can change when you go from one digital input to another.  Long story short... jitter and noise.  Jitter sounds fuzzy, a reduction in stage and instrument focus.  Also attack from things being slightly out of sync.  It's a subtle thing.  Noise is noise.  Optical of course has no noise.
  
 Now if what you want is more focus, more attack, less fuzz then make sure you have the Gen 2 USB and get a Wyred or as you said snag a better toslink capable soundcard like an ESI.  
  
 The other thing you can do is remove the noise your pc puts out by plugging it into a ground loop breaker like a HumX.  No tweak I've ever done did as much as that little thing.  Now all my computers that connect to audio whether it be the stereo or tv get one and the noise floor just drops off.


----------



## toddrhodes

I have the Gen2. In an ideal world I'd like for USB to sound like the optical input does, the only reason I say that is apparently the optical input is incapable of reading 88.2k sample rates so I have to downsample those (would rather downsample to an even multiple as opposed to upsample to 96k, but this is still probably pretty minor). 
  
 It's my understanding that while Wyrd and Regen do similar things, the Regen actually improves the USB stream, rather than just cleaning up the 5v power lead which is my understanding of the main use case for Wyrd. Since Gungnir is not powered by USB, would Wyrd really help much? I ask due to ignorance, so any insight is helpful. I have searched but my head's a bit full of computer-audio nomenclature right now 
  


solude said:


> It's important to know what can change when you go from one digital input to another.  Long story short... jitter and noise.  Jitter sounds fuzzy, a reduction in stage and instrument focus.  Also attack from things being slightly out of sync.  It's a subtle thing.  Noise is noise.  Optical of course has no noise.
> 
> Now if what you want is more focus, more attack, less fuzz then make sure you have the Gen 2 USB and get a Wyred or as you said snag a better toslink capable soundcard like an ESI.
> 
> The other thing you can do is remove the noise your pc puts out by plugging it into a ground loop breaker like a HumX.  No tweak I've ever done did as much as that little thing.  Now all my computers that connect to audio whether it be the stereo or tv get one and the noise floor just drops off.


 
  
   
 I will check out the sound cards you mentioned Solude, I'm not familiar with ESI, nor am I familiar with HumX. At this point I need to figure out how to kill the noise from my lights in the room, I quieted the PC down completely but I can hear the light bulbs. This is truly first world problems, I know.
  
 Thank you!!


----------



## Solude

The toslink input can absolutely take 88 and 176 assuming the sender can send it cleanly.
  
 Wyred is also a reclocker as are all usb hubs.  The Gungnir USB is powered by the cable not the internal power supply.
  
 Can't overstate how awesome the HumX is.  Not subtle at all and if you have iems you can easily hear the difference it makes by just listening to silence or what should be with and without it in place.


----------



## toddrhodes

solude said:


> The toslink input can absolutely take 88 and 176 assuming the sender can send it cleanly.
> 
> Wyred is also a reclocker as are all usb hubs.  The Gungnir USB is powered by the cable not the internal power supply.
> 
> Can't overstate how awesome the HumX is.  Not subtle at all and if you have iems you can easily hear the difference it makes by just listening to silence or what should be with and without it in place.




Thanks for the clarification! The 88k issue must be due to the onboard realtek output then, not the Gungnir. I admittedly was scratching my head on that last night.


----------



## shabta

Anyone try installing a USB board into  the gungnir? How hard is it?


----------



## David Aldrich

It's not hard but there are a few things you need to pay attention to.
  
 Take that with a grain of salt I've worked as an electronics technician for a few years professionally and for myself for a decade.


----------



## Solude

shabta said:


> Anyone try installing a USB board into  the gungnir? How hard is it?


 
  
 Installing the board is trivial.  Get the LEDs lined up to slide the case back on... no fun.


----------



## StefanJK

shabta said:


> Anyone try installing a USB board into  the gungnir? How hard is it?


 
 As people say, snapping the USB board in is trivial.  Watch out to unscrew the right screws opening up the case (i.e. don't detach any boards).  Getting the LEDs lined up was easy for me working alone, but you it did seem like it could get messed up if you bent them out of alignment somehow.   Lots of space and good big screws, so much easier than most electronics tinkering.


----------



## hodgjy

shabta said:


> Anyone try installing a USB board into  the gungnir? How hard is it?


 
 Another issue to consider is electromagnetic discharge. Make sure you're properly grounded and even wear a grounding wrist strap. One little discharge can fry a chip.


----------



## NzAudezey

shabta said:


> Anyone try installing a USB board into  the gungnir? How hard is it?


 
  
 I did the gungnir upgrade myself (i hope schitt is not reading this) and it is really easy, Take your time and wear a wrist discharge thingy.  A handy tip i would recommend is getting a piece of cardboard and stabbing all the screws in to it as you take them out and write where each one came from ( not really necessary for this but still handy).
  
 The hardest part of the entire is thing is those damn LED lights on the front. They are nearly impossible to get all correctly lined up so here's what i did to get most of them lined up (takes a few tries)
  
 Once the case is off you will see that the LEDS are on very long bendy legs with a 90 degree bend. Sort of bend them to line up the best you can or at least when the chassis is back on you can see part of the LED. I then used a pin and to sort of flick the LEDS so that they pop in to their holes on the chassis. Its quite hard to visualize so if you need i can PM you some images to help.


----------



## politbureau

politbureau said:


> That's actually a great little box - thanks for the link! Do you know if the USB is an output and actually carries signal?
> 
> I was also considering the Airenabler (http://airenabler.qnology.com/Home) which is the same thing, but works exclusively over USB. Not sure if this is an advantage or not (airplay is limited to 16/44.1 afterall), but it could be interesting as I can route the signal through my Wyrd to potentially remove some additional jitter, and reviews are pretty good.


 
 Answering my own question here...
  
 AirEnabler ordered, installed and working like a charm. Running via a custom 4" USB cable into an iPurifier, then into my Wyrd and into my Gungnir Gen2. Limited by Airplay to 16/44.1, but sounds fantastic so far. I'm not sure I hear a clear difference from the Airport Express, but 2 things are instantly noticeable: the "Buy Better Gear" light no longer comes on, and audio streams start and stop more instantaneously.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Jono338

noxnoctum said:


> So I wouldn't see a jump in my electric bill leaving it on like if I started using say, a window AC unit?
> 
> I split rent/utilities with a couple other people so I don't want to cause any problems there.


 

 I checked my G ... it runs at 20W. For me, my kWh rate is $0.255 (I'm in Australia). That's $44.60 per year to run it 24/7. Not much I guess, but my amp runs at about 35W on standby, (and 200W on even not playing). Plus the bit from the Squeeze box, and the pre amp. It all adds up. Money I'd rather have in my pocket, for the sake of some sonic improvement I probably couldn't hear. I turn it all off when I'm not listening.
  
 J


----------



## HeyWaj10

A bit of an update for Gungnir owners, at least it seems. Per John Darko's report:
  

  
 While I don't actually understand the significance of multi-bit, it's nice to see that the Gungnir (and Bifrost) will be receiving some new trickle-down tech from the Yggy!
  
 Source: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/06/t-h-e-show-newport-2015-multi-bit-from-multi-schiit/


----------



## bflat

Thanks for the article!
  
 Pretty amazing statement by the AQ guy. I hope the upgrade isn't too expensive I would guess it will be $150 for Gen 3 USB and maybe $400 for the DAC upgrade? However those Analog chips at $80 each can't be good for cost LOL.


----------



## KLJTech

I love that Schiit Audio continues to offer upgrades to their gear! Far too many companies say their stuff is upgradeable, but not all follow through with the promise of future upgrades. My hats off to the guys at Schiit Audio...they never fail to impress.


----------



## theblueprint

I think Mike mentioned that they hardly make money (if any) off the upgrades. That's why they are considering a loyalty program where people who bought their Schiit directly from the site will be offered a cheaper rate than those who buy their gear used. 

Yeah, the DAC chips are a bit pricey, but bifrost only requires one, while gungnir two. Keeping my fingers crossed for a substantial improvement with these new boards.


----------



## Solude

theblueprint said:


> Yeah, the DAC chips are a bit pricey, but bifrost only requires one, while gungnir two. Keeping my fingers crossed for a substantial improvement with these new boards.


 
  
 Do don't believe they are stereo DACs so it would be 2 and 4.


----------



## KLJTech

theblueprint said:


> I think Mike mentioned that they hardly make money (if any) off the upgrades. That's why they are considering a loyalty program where people who bought their Schiit directly from the site will be offered a cheaper rate than those who buy their gear used.
> 
> Yeah, the DAC chips are a bit pricey, but bifrost only requires one, while gungnir two. Keeping my fingers crossed for a substantial improvement with these new boards.


 
  
 If that's the case I'm glad I bought the Gungnir directly from Schiit's website. I'm looking forward to it. I haven't owned a R-2R DAC since my Monarchy 22A in the 90's that was feed via a top-loading CD transport. Some things change and apparently some things shouldn't change so much.


----------



## theblueprint

A multibit bifrost seems unreal. Even though I am really excited, I wonder how schiit is going to fit it inside a bifrost chassis, let alone that modular upgrade card.


----------



## bflat

theblueprint said:


> A multibit bifrost seems unreal. Even though I am really excited, I wonder how schiit is going to fit it inside a bifrost chassis, let alone that modular upgrade card.


 

 Good question - but the Tera Player claims to be a bit perfect DAC and its the size of pocket watch. Maybe the tiny SMT type resistors are so small now, that an R2R design will fit in a small space.


----------



## David Aldrich

bflat said:


> Good question - but the Tera Player claims to be a bit perfect DAC and its the size of pocket watch. Maybe the tiny SMT type resistors are so small now, that an R2R design will fit in a small space.


 

 The resistor ladders are on chip.


----------



## bflat

david aldrich said:


> The resistor ladders are on chip.








Ah, good to know. I thought that they all looked like this:


 


https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2014/10/12/r2r-for-the-rest-of-us/


 


Lots of SMT resistors on that DAC board.


----------



## Erukian

david aldrich said:


> The resistor ladders are on chip.


 

 Is that like the audio quest dragonfly which claims volume control in the analog domain using windows/mac digital volume control?


----------



## KLJTech

erukian said:


> Is that like the audio quest dragonfly which claims volume control in the analog domain using windows/mac digital volume control?


 
  
 Nope, totally different.
  
 The Dragonfly doesn't use an R-2R DAC, some DAC's do have analog or digital volume controls built-in (the same box), but that's not the DAC itself. The DAC's that do simply have the output volume/voltage being controlled before it leaves the output jacks by a volume pot or a chip. Hope that makes sense, trying to post this with half a dozen people talking at the same time and it's making it difficult to think. <grin>  In other words just because a D/A Converter has a volume control, be it analog or digital doesn't make it an R-2R Ladder DAC. They are VERY few and far between...I can't think of another one off the top of my head. 
  
 The last R-2R DAC I had was in the 90's...a Monarchy 22A. Can't recall the exact DAC chips it used, they were Burr-Brown "something" PK versions. It's been too long.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

I was wondering is any Gungnir owners have tried using an iPad/iPhone as an input for this DAC?  If it did work I'm assuming it would be with Apple's CCK adapter.  I'd like to be able to play hi-res stuff using the Onkyo App.
  
 I ask because I'm debating on DACs and I just found out the Matrix X-Sabre can go this route...


----------



## theblueprint

buttuglyjeff said:


> I was wondering is any Gungnir owners have tried using an iPad/iPhone as an input for this DAC?  If it did work I'm assuming it would be with Apple's CCK adapter.  I'd like to be able to play hi-res stuff using the Onkyo App.
> 
> I ask because I'm debating on DACs and I just found out the Matrix X-Sabre can go this route...




I don't own the gungnir, but I have the a bifrost and modi and tried it with the fulla, and yes the CCK adapter works on all of them. Jason even mentioned this on the website. It's super handy and it's awesome to not have to turn on your computer to listen to music... I simply lounge on my couch and use my phone and spotify app to listen.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

theblueprint said:


> I don't own the gungnir, but I have the a bifrost and modi and tried it with the fulla, and yes the CCK adapter works on all of them. Jason even mentioned this on the website. It's super handy and it's awesome to not have to turn on your computer to listen to music... I simply lounge on my couch and use my phone and spotify app to listen.


 
  
 Oh I see it now on the Schiit web page, thanks.
  
 Do you listen to hi res stuff that way too?  Onkyo app or something similar?


----------



## theblueprint

buttuglyjeff said:


> Oh I see it now on the Schiit web page, thanks.
> 
> Do you listen to hi res stuff that way too?  Onkyo app or something similar?




I use a stream service that gives me 320 kbps, but I could easily play anything out of my phone. The cable simply bypasses the DAC and feeds the schiit wyrd I have (so I don't get the power draw warning) which finally inputs to the bifrost.


----------



## bflat

theblueprint said:


> I use a stream service that gives me 320 kbps, but I could easily play anything out of my phone. The cable simply bypasses the DAC and feeds the schiit wyrd I have (so I don't get the power draw warning) which finally inputs to the bifrost.




Just tried CCK from my iPhone to Gen 2 USB on my Gungnir and it works. No need for Wryd or powered hub. Per my Mac system info the power draw is only 100 mA which is right at the max CCK will allow.


----------



## theblueprint

bflat said:


> Just tried CCK from my iPhone to Gen 2 USB on my Gungnir and it works. No need for Wryd or powered hub. Per my Mac system info the power draw is only 100 mA which is right at the max CCK will allow.




Oh good to know! I've always had the wyrd around, so might as well use it. It does wonders for my lower tier USB DACs, but I never blind tested the bifrost uber with it. 

But it does allow me to "extend" my USB cord without having to really physically extend it, if you know what I mean


----------



## Poimandres

Any info on the Gungnir upgrade, time wise? Will it use the same r2r dacs that the yggy does?


----------



## theblueprint

poimandres said:


> Any info on the Gungnir upgrade, time wise? Will it use the same r2r dacs that the yggy does?




Darko from DAR has reported that Jason told him that the Gungnir boards have been completed, so it's only a matter of time (late this year???). And with the successful implementation of the AD5791bruz chip in Yggdrasil, I don't see why they wouldn't keep the same DAC chip in Gungnir. Very exciting news!


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

theblueprint said:


> Darko from DAR has reported that Jason told him that the Gungnir boards have been completed, so it's only a matter of time (late this year???). And with the successful implementation of the AD5791bruz chip in Yggdrasil, I don't see why they wouldn't keep the same DAC chip in Gungnir. Very exciting news!


 
  
 Do you think it will get a USB update too?


----------



## reddog

theblueprint said:


> Darko from DAR has reported that Jason told him that the Gungnir boards have been completed, so it's only a matter of time (late this year???). And with the successful implementation of the AD5791bruz chip in Yggdrasil, I don't see why they wouldn't keep the same DAC chip in Gungnir. Very exciting news!



It pays to be calm and wait, this is great news indeed.


----------



## Solude

I just don't see how they can bring much across.  The DAC board is much larger than the Gungnir/Bifrost ones and needs the DSP board to even work.  The USB3 should be plug and play though.  Guess we'll see sometime later in the year.


----------



## theblueprint

solude said:


> I just don't see how they can bring much across.  The DAC board is much larger than the Gungnir/Bifrost ones and needs the DSP board to even work.  The USB3 should be plug and play though.  Guess we'll see sometime later in the year.




Haha. Yeah, that part boggles my mind too. It'll be very interesting to see how they'll fit all that yggy on a DAC card, or perhaps, they might be building a new board from the ground up? Who knows. Whatever happens, I'm sure minds will be blown nonetheless.


----------



## bflat

solude said:


> I just don't see how they can bring much across.  The DAC board is much larger than the Gungnir/Bifrost ones and needs the DSP board to even work.  The USB3 should be plug and play though.  Guess we'll see sometime later in the year.


 

 If Tera Player can squeeze an R2R DAC into the size of a matchbook, I'm sure Schiit can do something inside the Gungnir and Bifrost chassis.


----------



## Solude

R2R by itself means nothing as far as space requirements.


----------



## reddog

theblueprint said:


> Haha. Yeah, that part boggles my mind too. It'll be very interesting to see how they'll fit all that yggy on a DAC card, or perhaps, they might be building a new board from the ground up? Who knows. Whatever happens, I'm sure minds will be blown nonetheless.



And I am sure my wallet will be weeping, when I get the new upgraded Gungnir.


----------



## Dimitrisvensson

Is it confirmed it will be an upgrade and just not Gungnir 2 or something stupid?


----------



## bflat

dimitrisvensson said:


> Is it confirmed it will be an upgrade and just not Gungnir 2 or something stupid?


 

 Nothing has been confirmed as to upgrades, but I highly doubt it will be Gungnir 2. All of the "2" models were never designed to be upgradeable. Also, they have already created one upgrade without changing the model and that was for USB Gen 1 to USB Gen 2.
  
 We just need to wait to see what the upgrades are, but I think it's a safe bet that one of those will be USB Gen 3. As for the DAC's there's only been speculation.


----------



## Dimitrisvensson

bflat said:


> Nothing has been confirmed as to upgrades, but I highly doubt it will be Gungnir 2. All of the "2" models were never designed to be upgradeable. Also, they have already created one upgrade without changing the model and that was for USB Gen 1 to USB Gen 2.
> 
> We just need to wait to see what the upgrades are, but I think it's a safe bet that one of those will be USB Gen 3. As for the DAC's there's only been speculation.


 
 Is it really?  www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/06/t-h-e-show-newport-2015-multi-bit-from-multi-schiit/


----------



## RCBinTN

dimitrisvensson said:


> Is it really?  www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/06/t-h-e-show-newport-2015-multi-bit-from-multi-schiit/


 
  
 Thanks for the link / information.  Will be interesting to see where this goes.
 I'm a happy Gungnir 1 owner but when I heard the Yggr at the Nashville meet, it was quite a bit better.


----------



## bflat

My new WA7+WA7tp eagerly await the DAC upgrades to my Gungnir. SF Meet up was a blast! Sorry nobody at Schiit really had anything new to say about the upgrades.


----------



## warrenpchi

​


----------



## wahsmoh

warrenpchi said:


> ​


 
 I'm flying home from Peru and will be arriving in San Diego at 9:50 PM on August 15th 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Take some nice pictures and make an impressions thread for me


----------



## NoxNoctum

Does it matter if I have something on top of the holes on the top of the Gungnir? I know people have been stacking the Mjolnir on top of it but just want to make sure... I mean aren't those holes for ventilation?


----------



## theblueprint

noxnoctum said:


> Does it matter if I have something on top of the holes on the top of the Gungnir? I know people have been stacking the Mjolnir on top of it but just want to make sure... I mean aren't those holes for ventilation?




Those holes don't go through. They're only for show haha.


----------



## marcoarment

Excellent timing. I suspect my Gungnir's USB input might be flaky and came here to see if there was a USB Gen 3 coming soon. I can definitely go optical for a few weeks while the product line sorts itself out.


----------



## Eee Pee

Just noticed they have the Gungnir in black.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://schiit.com/products/gungnir-bblk


----------



## Shembot

Has anyone noticed any differences using upgraded power cords with Gungnir? No cable debates, just personal experiences.


----------



## David Aldrich

shembot said:


> Has anyone noticed any differences using upgraded power cords with Gungnir? No cable debates, just personal experiences.


 

 Made a huge difference, now my cable is the perfect length and looks nice in my setup, before that it was long and ugly.


----------



## Dalgas

shembot said:


> Has anyone noticed any differences using upgraded power cords with Gungnir? No cable debates, just personal experiences.


 
 I never use standard powercords - have heard too many times what a good powercable can do....
  
 Have just recieved my new Schiit Gungnir yesterday - after a long 3 weeks wait.
  
 Straight out of the box it sounds every bit as good as the Stello DA220 mk2 I have on loan. The bas i strong but a bit fat - I have read that burn-in is essential with the Gungnir - so I have to be patient again.


----------



## JamesBr

dimitrisvensson said:


> Is it really?  www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/06/t-h-e-show-newport-2015-multi-bit-from-multi-schiit/


 
 Hehe, Gold "Steve Silberman, orchestrator of the JitterBug, told me in Berlin that he can no longer listen to his home system without Schiit’s Wyrd USB de-crapifier in the chain."


----------



## hodgjy

And to think the Wyrd uses a crappy wall wart and a crappy high gauge metal cable.


----------



## RCBinTN

Do you DAC folks out there have an idea what the multi-bit upgrade will do to the Gungnir's sound?
 The original Gungnir already sounds pretty damn good, to me.


----------



## Shembot

rcbintn said:


> Do you DAC folks out there have an idea what the multi-bit upgrade will do to the Gungnir's sound?
> The original Gungnir already sounds pretty damn good, to me.


 

 I'm not someone who would be included in a list of anyone's "DAC folks," but I'd wager it'll make it sound better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can't wait. Even if I get Yggdrasil (eventually -- once they figure out how to make enough of them), I'll still probably upgrade Gungnir and use it in another room or at work.


----------



## RCBinTN

shembot said:


> I'm not someone who would be included in a list of anyone's "DAC folks," but I'd wager it'll make it sound better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, me too, but it would be nice to justify the several hundred $$ expenditure.


----------



## BobFiggins

Subscribed, and breathing heavily in anticipation of all the multibit reviews!


----------



## Dalgas

It is here!
  
http://schiit.com/products/gungnir-multibit


----------



## Dalgas

Damn - can hardly wait for the first reviews.....
  
 But so far I am very pleased with my - delta-sigma - Gungnir. Just recieved it 3 week ago and it has put a big smile on my face.


----------



## jfoxvol

dalgas said:


> Damn - can hardly wait for the first reviews.....
> 
> But so far I am very pleased with my - delta-sigma - Gungnir. Just recieved it 3 week ago and it has put a big smile on my face.



I have owned a Gungnir for several years and loved it. I have had an Yggdrasil for the last few months and it's blown my mind. Completely. This upgrade should be a big step up in performance for the Gungnir. I'm glad I haven't sold mine. I will upgrade later this year and put in my other system.


----------



## Noirkw91

I hope schiit allows customers to buy the board and sent it to a dealer locally to upgrade. It's gonna cost me ~200 in shipping costs back and forth to upgrade 

Sent from my 2014817 using Tapatalk


----------



## cskippy

noirkw91 said:


> I hope schiit allows customers to buy the board and sent it to a dealer locally to upgrade. It's gonna cost me ~200 in shipping costs back and forth to upgrade
> 
> Sent from my 2014817 using Tapatalk


 
 Well, first thought is it beats buying a new one, and from what I've read this is the DAC to get.  Although I know that Schiit staff are very reasonable and have excellent customer service.  I'm sure they will do everything in their power to accommodate your needs.


----------



## Stillhart

noirkw91 said:


> I hope schiit allows customers to buy the board and sent it to a dealer locally to upgrade. It's gonna cost me ~200 in shipping costs back and forth to upgrade
> 
> Sent from my 2014817 using Tapatalk


 
  
 My understanding is that they have to update the firmware in the unit so it's not just a board swap and that's why you have to send it in.  They'd love to not have to deal with it (from a logistical standpoint), but seems that's not an option.
  
 Oh and subbed!  Hoping to get a GMB soon.


----------



## Jozurr

Hmmmm. $500 to upgrade to the multibit and $200 for shipping etc. Price wise it's so much closer to getting a DAC-19.


----------



## cskippy

jozurr said:


> Hmmmm. $500 to upgrade to the multibit and $200 for shipping etc. Price wise it's so much closer to getting a DAC-19.


 
 And then sell the stock gungnir and now you have the money for the multibit gungnir.  Just sayin...


----------



## kdejonge

Can you use the balanced and RCA out at the same time so I can feed two amps?


----------



## kothganesh

Yep.


----------



## Dimitrisvensson

cskippy said:


> And then sell the stock gungnir and now you have the money for the multibit gungnir.  Just sayin...


 
 Holy balls, you are probably right. It would get CHEAPER as the demand for gungnirs is huge atm. 100 usd extra for getting it as an upgrade instead of buying new + a huge increase in shipping cost. You could easily sell a used gungnir and buy a new one for less. Mind blown.


----------



## Jozurr

dimitrisvensson said:


> Holy balls, you are probably right. It would get CHEAPER as the demand for gungnirs is huge atm. 100 usd extra for getting it as an upgrade instead of buying new + a huge increase in shipping cost. You could easily sell a used gungnir and buy a new one for less. Mind blown.


 
  
 Not to forget the now renewed warranty on the new GMB. The upgrade seems pretty pointless at the moment price wise..


----------



## Shembot

jozurr said:


> Not to forget the now renewed warranty on the new GMB. The upgrade seems pretty pointless at the moment price wise..


 
  
 I wish I had thought of this before ordering the upgrade. I could've had the GMB and Mjolnir 2 shipped and in hand on the same day and not been without my system while shipping it away to be upgraded, which will likely take longer and will cost more in the end (warranty aside).


----------



## Stillhart

Yeah but the economics will work themselves out... used prices on Gungnirs will drop now because people will realize that buying used to upgrade doesn't make sense at current market prices.  So I mean... while your plan might be good right NOW, it won't in a couple weeks once the market adjusts.


----------



## Jozurr

stillhart said:


> Yeah but the economics will work themselves out... used prices on Gungnirs will drop now because people will realize that buying used to upgrade doesn't make sense at current market prices.  So I mean... while your plan might be good right NOW, it won't in a couple weeks once the market adjusts.


 
  
 Or not. The Gungnirs are in demand without the upgrades as well. I doubt the prices on used gungnirs will fall by $200 or more considering a used one can be had for $650-$700 or so. At $450, a gungnir is hard to beat. If the upgrade costs $700, it'll have to come to that price for it to be a reasonable buy (assuming everyone is considering upgrades), otherwise people can just pay $100 more and get a new one. I feel used ones would still  be bought by people who are not considering upgrades, at prices not much lower than now.
  
 I'm very interested in impressions of the GMB vs the DAC-19. Considering a DAC-19 is much cheaper with a 10 year warranty, and how good it sounds, the GMB would have to beat it sound wise. I understand diminishing returns etc, but it's still a competitive price point for it not to have enough of an upgrade sound wise for people to consider it.


----------



## Stillhart

jozurr said:


> Or not. The Gungnirs are in demand without the upgrades as well. I doubt the prices on used gungnirs will fall by $200 or more considering a used one can be had for $650-$700 or so. At $450, a gungnir is hard to beat. If the upgrade costs $700, it'll have to come to that price for it to be a reasonable buy (assuming everyone is considering upgrades), otherwise people can just pay $100 more and get a new one. I feel used ones would still  be bought by people who are not considering upgrades, at prices not much lower than now.
> 
> I'm very interested in impressions of the GMB vs the DAC-19. Considering a DAC-19 is much cheaper with a 10 year warranty, and how good it sounds, the GMB would have to beat it sound wise. I understand diminishing returns etc, but it's still a competitive price point for it not to have enough of an upgrade sound wise for people to consider it.


 
  
 I doubt it'll fall that low, but I suspect it will drop in the long term.  Short term, people will be trying to save a buck but not doing the math so the prices may even go up.  Long term, they'll drop.  Maybe only a little, but I think equilibrium price will be lower for the GSB than it is today.
  
 And yeah, I agree with your analysis in general.  The GMB is almost 50% more expensive than the DAC-19 so one would expect notably better sound.  As you said, with diminishing returns, it doesn't have to be amazing, but it should definitely be better at that price.  My impressions with unfamiliar amp and unfamiliar headphones didn't give me enough information to make any conclusions about that so we'll have to see in a few days...


----------



## lukeap69

stillhart said:


> I doubt it'll fall that low, but I suspect it will drop in the long term.  Short term, people will be trying to save a buck but not doing the math so the prices may even go up.  Long term, they'll drop.  Maybe only a little, but I think equilibrium price will be lower for the GSB than it is today.
> 
> And yeah, I agree with your analysis in general.  The GMB is almost 50% more expensive than the DAC-19 so one would expect notably better sound.  As you said, with diminishing returns, it doesn't have to be amazing, but it should definitely be better at that price.  My impressions with unfamiliar amp and unfamiliar headphones didn't give me enough information to make any conclusions about that so we'll have to see in a few days...


 

 Dan - are you going to receive a review unit? GMB (Gunggy) is diverting my interest with Master 11 and Yggy. So your comparison with DAC-19 will be influential to my DAC buying decisions in future... ​


----------



## Stillhart

lukeap69 said:


> Dan - are you going to receive a review unit? GMB (Gunggy) is diverting my interest with Master 11 and Yggy. So your comparison with DAC-19 will be influential to my DAC buying decisions in future... ​


 
  
 Nope, they were short on review units and I was impatient so I just bought one.  :-D  Fedex says it'll be here tomorrow.  And obviously, burn-in will be a factor.  But fear not, I'll be posting impressions and comparisons with all my gear.  I'll probably do a formal review too.


----------



## lukeap69

stillhart said:


> Nope, they were short on review units and I was impatient so I just bought one.  :-D  Fedex says it'll be here tomorrow.  And obviously, burn-in will be a factor.  But fear not, I'll be posting impressions and comparisons with all my gear.  I'll probably do a formal review too.


 
 Tomorrow? Wow! That was quick. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I will start pressing refresh tomorrow night then.


----------



## Stillhart

lukeap69 said:


> Tomorrow? Wow! That was quick.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 They were not joking when they said they were in stock and ready to ship.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'm sure plenty of other folks will be getting theirs tomorrow as well.  Expect a flood of impressions.  
  
 And remember that DAC's usually require burn-in time so initial impressions aren't always the final impressions.


----------



## bflat

Upgrader here and #6 on the list. Got my request to send my Gungnir to Schiitt on Monday 8-17. They should receive by Wed 8-19 so will update on how long they take for the upgrade path.


----------



## joebobbilly

Looking forward to impressions!
  
 Definitely gonna consider an upgrade once the stupid Loonie (CAD) catches up closer to the USD... as of right now it's ludicrous to think of the exchange, shipping, and import/customs charges. (I'd estimate it would run me $800-900 CAD for this upgrade after all those costs.)


----------



## happyrabbit

FedEx just dropped off a Multibit Gungnir


----------



## jfoxvol

happyrabbit said:


> FedEx just dropped off a Multibit Gungnir


 
 happy dance.  congrats.  Can't wait to hear about how it sounds.


----------



## mikoss

joebobbilly said:


> Looking forward to impressions!
> 
> Definitely gonna consider an upgrade once the stupid Loonie (CAD) catches up closer to the USD... as of right now it's ludicrous to think of the exchange, shipping, and import/customs charges. (I'd estimate it would run me $800-900 CAD for this upgrade after all those costs.)


 
 I don't think we will have to pay customs/import or GST charges, as this should fall under repair/warranty... Sent mine in today (#4 on the upgrade list), so I'll post whenever it comes back and let you/other Canucks know if I get charged extra.
  
 Sorry guys, I also don't see the logic in selling a Gungnir and buying a new MB Gungnir. The price new is $849; why would anyone pay any more than $749 for a used one? They typically sell for around $700 used, with Uber. Maybe you'll save on shipping, if you can convince someone to pay $750 + shipping + paypal fees (or bank transfer the cash...). 
  
 Used Gungnir's have always been in demand... I think people who upgraded to Yggy's put their Gungnir's for sale, so there has been more for sale recently. Also, they weren't for sale long because some people were aware the upgrade was coming... but I still wouldn't pay the same amount for a used one after Paypal fees and shipping when I could buy new and pay the tax.


----------



## sheldaze

(#7 on the upgrade list) I am watching you guys very closely


----------



## jfoxvol

I'm halfway torn between selling my current gungnir or keeping and upgrading to multibit for my den system.  The Yggdrasill is absolutely amazing.  I have no doubt this will be 90% ish of that and am very curious to hear how it goes.


----------



## mikoss

90%ish, where'd you come up with that figure? Just curious... Just a guess that the MB Gungnir would be 90% of the Yggy?


----------



## jfoxvol

mikoss said:


> 90%ish, where'd you come up with that figure? Just curious... Just a guess that the MB Gungir would be 90% of the Yggy?


 
 Having not heard, it's mostly speculation but based upon actual engineering.  You take the Yggdrasil.  An end game product.  No holds barred.  Then, as production engineers, they determine post-game what is critical and what is not and what can be revised.  Let's take what we've learned from this development and find a way to make the most of this trickle into a more affordable product.  So, the filter? it stays.  same burrito (but at 18 bits).  The power supply? same as original Gungnir board.  USB?  Let's keep Gen2 still? ok.  The DAC and DSP combined onto a much smaller footprint, using more surface mount and less discrete components.  The DAC chips are 18 versus 20 bit so we're looking at a 19 bit versus a 21 bit DAC.  In practical terms, that's a difference but not A BIG difference.  So, add all these things up and then shoot it through the human ear.  In technical terms, the DAC has 1/4 the resolution but we hear in logarithmic terms so 1 or 2 bits is not really huge in how we hear things.  If the essence of what was done for the Yggdrasil is translated to the Gungnir multibit, then yes, I would expect a 90% translation (or something like that).  These numbers are all relative and subject to interpreation.  However, my inference was that this DAC would give a lot of people a lot of what the Yggdrasil imbibes.


----------



## AudioBear

Since it's ok to speculate about products you've never heard I will be audacious and suggest that Gungnir MB will be virtually indistinguishable from Yggy to mere mortals like myself.  Only golden ears and Norse Gods can tell the difference.  [I have never heard either].
  
 Seriously, for all practical purposes I would expect them to be very close.  I have never understood how people come up with arbitrary percentages so I'll avoid that.


----------



## Mediahound

audiobear said:


> Since it's ok to speculate about products you've never heard I will be audacious and suggest that Gungnir MB will be virtually indistinguishable from Yggy to mere mortals like myself.  Only golden ears and Norse Gods can tell the difference.  [I have never heard either].
> 
> Seriously, for all practical purposes I would expect them to be very close.  I have never understood how people come up with arbitrary percentages so I'll avoid that.


 

 Why do you think it will sound exactly the same when it uses different DAC chips? Granted, they're the same brand, but still different chips.


----------



## AudioBear

mediahound said:


> Why do you think it will sound exactly the same when it uses different DAC chips? Granted, they're the same brand, but still different chips.


 

 The chips are identical architecture.  The designer and design is the same.  The megaburrito filter is the same.  And, I doubt that most people will  hear any difference between 18 and 21 bits.  Except golden ears and Norse Gods.


----------



## reddog

I will compare the Yggdrasil to the Gungnir multibit, when it arrives this Friday.


----------



## AudioBear

Great idea.  Looking forward to hearing your impressions...


----------



## lukeap69

reddog said:


> I will compare the Yggdrasil to the Gungnir multibit, when it arrives this Friday.




Looking forward to it!


----------



## mikoss

Yggy vs reDACted. Should be interesting. 

The way I figure, as long as I never listen to the Yggy again, I won't know what I'm missing...


----------



## Mediahound

mikoss said:


> The way I figure, as long as I never listen to the Yggy again, I won't know what I'm missing...


 
  
 That's sorta what I think-what I don't know can't hurt me. I've never heard the Yggy but the GungMB sounds great to me.


----------



## mikoss

I heard the Yggy... I have high expectations of the MBG.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Does anyone know when Schiit Europe will have the MBG in stock?


----------



## Dimitrisvensson

mikoss said:


> I don't think we will have to pay customs/import or GST charges, as this should fall under repair/warranty... Sent mine in today (#4 on the upgrade list), so I'll post whenever it comes back and let you/other Canucks know if I get charged extra.
> 
> Sorry guys, I also don't see the logic in selling a Gungnir and buying a new MB Gungnir. The price new is $849; why would anyone pay any more than $749 for a used one? They typically sell for around $700 used, with Uber. Maybe you'll save on shipping, if you can convince someone to pay $750 + shipping + paypal fees (or bank transfer the cash...).
> 
> Used Gungnir's have always been in demand... I think people who upgraded to Yggy's put their Gungnir's for sale, so there has been more for sale recently. Also, they weren't for sale long because some people were aware the upgrade was coming... but I still wouldn't pay the same amount for a used one after Paypal fees and shipping when I could buy new and pay the tax.


 
 Nope nope nope. The supply of gungnirs have not gone up since the Yggy. Not at all. I've been looking for it ever since the yggdrasil was released. There was one like two or three weeks ago, US voltage, sold in less than one day I believe. People would pay a lot for a used one atm.


----------



## mikoss

Alright, I won't argue with you. I bought mine in August used here, there were also at least four others that sold this month, two of which were Yggy owners. Eight others that sold since May used, four of which were Yggy owners. Good luck selling yours and saving money on the upgrade.


----------



## Dimitrisvensson

mikoss said:


> Alright, I won't argue with you. I bought mine in August used here, there were also at least four others that sold this month, two of which were Yggy owners. Eight others that sold since May used, four of which were Yggy owners. Good luck selling yours and saving money on the upgrade.


 
 Us voltage in that case. I have not seen a single 230v except for This: http://www.head-fi.org/t/748505/uk-schiit-gungnir


----------



## AudioBear

I couldn't wait for the reviews.  I just ordered a Gungnir MB (Order #35314).  Hope they still have some in stock and that Fedex is quick.


----------



## bflat

I don't see an updated user's manual for the GMB. I assume we should leave it on 24x7 like Yggy?


----------



## theblueprint

bflat said:


> I don't see an updated user's manual for the GMB. I assume we should leave it on 24x7 like Yggy?




Yes. Mike recommends always leaving your DACs on.


----------



## PATB

Initial impressions of my GMB:  warm, smooth, and detailed.  A perfect match for my KGSSHV/Stax SR-009 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Also, sounds good even without warm up!


----------



## Stillhart

patb said:


> Initial impressions of my GMB:  warm, smooth, and detailed.  A perfect match for my KGSSHV/Stax SR-009
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, I disagree completely (EDIT - about the warm-up).  I thought it sounded thin and bright without warm-up and the sound improved noticeably after the recommended warm-up time.  Even 4-5 hours in, it still wasn't as good sounding as it is now that it's been on for over a day.
  
 Initial impressions are an impressively low noise floor and more upper treble/air than any of my Burr Brown R2R DACs (Audio-GD DAC-19, Theta Basic II, Adcom GDA-600).  I'll be doing more A/B in the coming days.


----------



## BobFiggins

stillhart said:


> Initial impressions are an impressively low noise floor and more upper treble/air than any of my Burr Brown R2R DACs (Audio-GD DAC-19, Theta Basic II, Adcom GDA-600).  I'll be doing more A/B in the coming days.


 
  
 Since I have a rather extreme sensitivity to the 9khz region, would you say its smooth enough to be alright? I find that any Delta Sigma DAC sounds very sibilant and etched in the upper treble, basically takes a case of beer to sound enjoyable.


----------



## Stillhart

bobfiggins said:


> Since I have a rather extreme sensitivity to the 9khz region, would you say its smooth enough to be alright? I find that any Delta Sigma DAC sounds very sibilant and etched in the upper treble, basically takes a case of beer to sound enjoyable.


 
  
 I'll be honest, I don't have the ability to call out the frequency response by ear.  Can you suggest a song that's got a noticeable peak in that area and I can listen to see?
  
 FWIW, I have some treble sensitivity too.  Wherever the spike is on the HD700, I can't deal with it.  Also...******* cicadas.  The GMB doesn't bother me at all.  It's not bright on an absolute level.  The others can feel almost rolled off when you're used to D-S DAC's.  This manages to have the smooth treble of R2R without rolling it off.  It's a nice trick and one of its most immediately noticeable features compared to the old BB chips.


----------



## AudioBear

bobfiggins said:


> Since I have a rather extreme sensitivity to the 9khz region, would you say its smooth enough to be alright? I find that any Delta Sigma DAC sounds very sibilant and etched in the upper treble, basically takes a case of beer to sound enjoyable.


 

 Is that a problem or a good reason to have a beer?


----------



## BobFiggins

audiobear said:


> Is that a problem or a good reason to have a beer?


 
  
 Yes


----------



## cskippy

stillhart said:


> Wow, I disagree completely.  I thought it sounded thin and bright without warm-up and the sound improved noticeably after the recommended warm-up time.  Even 4-5 hours in, it still wasn't as good sounding as it is now that it's been on for over a day.
> 
> Initial impressions are an impressively low noise floor and more upper treble/air than any of my Burr Brown R2R DACs (Audio-GD DAC-19, Theta Basic II, Adcom GDA-600).  I'll be doing more A/B in the coming days.


 
 Just remember that his impressions are based on whatever his previous DAC was.  If it was a Sabre DAC then, compared to that, the GMB might be warmer and smoother already, with the best yet to come.


----------



## Stillhart

cskippy said:


> Just remember that his impressions are based on whatever his previous DAC was.  If it was a Sabre DAC then, compared to that, the GMB might be warmer and smoother already, with the best yet to come.


 
  
 Yep, sorry, I meant specifically about the warm-up.  I can see how that was unclear now.  I edited, thanks!
  
 And yeah, I don't find it particularly warm, but that's because I'm coming from the BB DAC's.  I think it's pretty neutral overall.


----------



## BobFiggins

stillhart said:


> I'll be honest, I don't have the ability to call out the frequency response by ear.  Can you suggest a song that's got a noticeable peak in that area and I can listen to see?


 
  
 Fool - Perfume Genius
 (7/10 Pain Level)
 (0:37 where he says "titter and coo", the titter is very painful for me)
  
 The Killing Moon - Echo And The Bunnymen (This song is not well recorded, but this is the most blatant example)
 (10/10 Pain Level. By 10 I mean I can't make it through a quarter of the song.)
 (Any "s" and "t" sound in the entire song is unbearable)
  
 Get Lucky - Daft Punk
 (4/10 Pain Level)
 (Yeah this one is probably surprising, but any "s" sound is sibilant, however not that painful, but still noticeable)
  
 From the Start - Koven
 (9/10 Pain Level)
 (1:32 the word "see". This continues on, this track feels not so well recorded/mastered but not as poor as Echo And The Bunnymen)
  
 Tried to include some variations, well recorded, not well recorded etc.
  
 The only DAC I've used so far to eliminate any treble issues is the Ayre QB-9 DSD. So I hold out hope the DAC19/Gungnir Multibit/Ayre Codex can save me. I hear this sibilance on every headphone I've tried except the Sennheiser HD 650. Not a fan of its sound signature sadly, otherwise I'd be using that forever.
  
 I appreciate the help sir!


----------



## Stillhart

bobfiggins said:


> Fool - Perfume Genius
> (0:37 where he says "titter and coo", the titter is very painful for me)
> 
> The Killing Moon - Echo And The Bunnymen (This song is not well recorded, but this is the most blatant example)
> ...


 
  
 Okay yep, I got it now.  I don't have a particular sensitivity to that range so I can't say how bad it is compared to anything but the two DAC's I have hooked up currently (the GMB and DAC-19).  Neither seems particularly bad to my ears, but the DAC-19 is definitely a bit less peaky on those than the GMB.
  
 EDIT - HA!  Just noticed that the album name on that Perfume Genius song is "Too Bright".  :-D


----------



## kdejonge

Anyone knows if using a voltage step down converter would be bad? I can imagine it would but I don't know the science..


----------



## jimmypowder

bobfiggins said:


> Fool - Perfume Genius
> (7/10 Pain Level)
> (0:37 where he says "titter and coo", the titter is very painful for me)
> 
> ...


 
 Im not a fan of the HD650 sound signature too but I bought a replacement cable that improved the situation a lot.


----------



## PATB

stillhart said:


> Wow, I disagree completely (EDIT - about the warm-up).  I thought it sounded thin and bright without warm-up and the sound improved noticeably after the recommended warm-up time.  Even 4-5 hours in, it still wasn't as good sounding as it is now that it's been on for over a day.
> 
> Initial impressions are an impressively low noise floor and more upper treble/air than any of my Burr Brown R2R DACs (Audio-GD DAC-19, Theta Basic II, Adcom GDA-600).  I'll be doing more A/B in the coming days.


 
  
 I heard a just powered-up Yggy with the same KGSSHV/SR009, and that cold Yggy sounded thin and bright.  I expected the GMB to sound the same when cold, and was surprised it was warm.  Actually, a little too warm and could use more treble.  I thought Schiit erroneously sent me the old Gungnir 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I immediately checked the box, and it says "GUMB" and the unit has a little sticker indicating it is a multibit.  I will listen more over the weekend and see what changes.
  
 Prior to this, I have been listening to a TEAC UD-301, and prior to the TEAC, I have been listening to a Meridian G08 for 10+ years (currently out for repair).
  
 I am looking forward to other members' impressions to compare notes.


----------



## jimmypowder

patb said:


> I heard a just powered-up Yggy with the same KGSSHV/SR009, and that cold Yggy sounded thin and bright.  I expected the GMB to sound the same when cold, and was surprised it was warm.  Actually, a little too warm and could use more treble.  I thought Schiit erroneously sent me the old Gungnir   I immediately checked the box, and it says "GUMB" and the unit has a little sticker indicating it is a multibit.  I will listen more over the weekend and see what changes.
> 
> Prior to this, I have been listening to a TEAC UD-301, and prior to the TEAC, I have been listening to a Meridian G08 for 10+ years (currently out for repair).
> 
> I am looking forward to other members' impressions to compare notes.




According to many here , the delta sigma Gungnir was without question warmer sounding than the Yggy . My problem with this Gungnir was a minor lack of treble resolution . 

I have sent my unit back for the multibit upgrade . 

I will let you know how it sounds when I get it back compared to the delta sigma Gungnir .


----------



## bflat

Hmmmm, I don't know about leaving the GMB on 24x7. I'm trying to be green. Can I just keep it wrapped up in a blanket so it doesn't get cold? I suppose I could also give it a sip of my scotch too. That usually gets me warmed up pretty quickly. Better yet, I think I can train my cat to sleep on top of the GMB and I can tell you that my cat puts out some serious heat!


----------



## reddog

bflat said:


> Hmmmm, I don't know about leaving the GMB on 24x7. I'm trying to be green. Can I just keep it wrapped up in a blanket so it doesn't get cold? I suppose I could also give it a sip of my scotch too. That usually gets me warmed up pretty quickly. Better yet, I think I can train my cat to sleep on top of the GMB and I can tell you that my cat puts out some serious heat!



+1 Lol My cat loves to sleep on my hot Ragnarock, so it should be easy to get your cat to sleep on your GMB.


----------



## mikoss

Schiit lists the power draw at 20 watts, which is nearly nothing... Cook one less dinner on the stove once and you'll offset running the Gungnir 24/7 for a decade.


----------



## Stillhart

bflat said:


> Hmmmm, I don't know about leaving the GMB on 24x7. I'm trying to be green. Can I just keep it wrapped up in a blanket so it doesn't get cold? I suppose I could also give it a sip of my scotch too. That usually gets me warmed up pretty quickly. Better yet, I think I can train my cat to sleep on top of the GMB and I can tell you that my cat puts out some serious heat!


 
  
 Dan Clark says he warms up his Yggy by putting it on top of the Rag.  lol


----------



## reddog

I just go my GMB has arrived. I will compare the Gungnir Multibit to the Yggdrasil, after I burn/ warm up the GMB, for 12 hours. 




I have the GMB hooked up to the Ragnarock, and my mac is hooked up to the GMB. I have the HE1K'S hooked up to the Rag, listening to Dave Brubeck. I will let the GMB warm up.


----------



## AxelCloris

reddog said:


> I just go my GMB has arrived. I will compare the Gungnir Multibit to the Yggdrasil, after I burn/ warm up the GMB, for 12 hours.


 
  
 Hope you don't mind if I live vicariously through you over the next 72 hours.


----------



## lukeap69

reddog said:


> I just go my GMB has arrived. I will compare the Gungnir Multibit to the Yggdrasil, after I burn/ warm up the GMB, for 12 hours.


 
 This is exciting!


----------



## reddog

Pictures of the GMB being warmed up.


----------



## MattTCG

My GungMB got here at lunch time. Been warming it up for about three hours now. Impressions to follow...


----------



## screwdriver




----------



## AudioBear

Mine was shipped this morning....probably won't be here until next Wednesday.....


----------



## Dalgas

fegefeuer said:


> Does anyone know when Schiit Europe will have the MBG in stock?


 
  
 I asked them if - and when - they were ready to upgrade  - and got an answer yesterdays: 
  
"Yes we will be able to do this, I expect a price of 450 -500 euro, but we need to receive the items first etc. Nobody has them so far in EU, but we expect them in a few days till weeks.  the upgrade section on our website will be updated when possible..."
  
 But they will contact my as soon as they are ready to do the upgrade.


----------



## lukeap69

matttcg said:


> My GungMB got here at lunch time. Been warming it up for about three hours now. Impressions to follow...


 
 Nice! Popcorn time!


----------



## Mediahound

FWIW - I burned my Gungnir MB in initially for 12 hours and listened for while. It sounded great. Then I turned it off for the night.
  
 Today I powered it on and began listening within 10 minutes of power up. It sounded great. I couldn't tell any difference. 
  
 It may be exaggeration that you should leave it on constantly. I don't plan to do that, especially if I know I won't use it in say 12 hours or something like that. 
  
 Amp: Mjolnir 2 w/LISST's


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> My GungMB got here at lunch time. Been warming it up for about three hours now. Impressions to follow...



Looking forward to your impressions sir.


----------



## bflat

Is that a hot plate I see under one of the new GMBs?
  
 On a serious note, my upgrade took 1 business day to turn around from receiving on Schiitt's end. Of course this may get worse if more upgrade requests come in. Unfortunately, once you get the notice to ship, you no longer can see the queue so I have no idea how many more they received after the 12th order.


----------



## joebobbilly

reddog said:


> Looking forward to your impressions sir.


 

 +1
 +2
 +3
 .
 .
 .
 .


----------



## Puzzles

Now I finally got the Gungnir MB but it won't work with my Macbook. My decade-old PC does find it, but whatever I do on my Mac, it won't recognize the Gungnir. The Schiit support says to do an SMC reset and to use an externally powered USB hub, but all that doesn't seem to work. This is the first time I ever had problems with a DAC though. Has anyone else had similar problems and managed to resolve it?


----------



## AudioBear

Mine arrives next week and I will be using it with a MacPro and a MacBookPro so I hope you work this out.
  
 It is sort of surprising since I have never had a problem with macs recognizing USB devices. 
  
 Does it play on an iPhone or iPod set-up for digital output?  Just curious, knowing this won't help your problem.


----------



## Hardwired

They've been plugged in for less than an hour so no formal opinions yet. I'll just say so far I LIKE them.


----------



## JK-47

hardwired said:


> They've been plugged in for less than an hour so no formal opinions yet. I'll just say so far I LIKE them.


 
  
  
 Nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Looks like you have socket savers in the MJ2???


----------



## bflat

hardwired said:


> They've been plugged in for less than an hour so no formal opinions yet. I'll just say so far I LIKE them.


 

 Hate to tell you, but you got a lot of Schitt on your desk!


----------



## sheldaze

puzzles said:


> Now I finally got the Gungnir MB but it won't work with my Macbook. My decade-old PC does find it, but whatever I do on my Mac, it won't recognize the Gungnir. The Schiit support says to do an SMC reset and to use an externally powered USB hub, but all that doesn't seem to work. This is the first time I ever had problems with a DAC though. Has anyone else had similar problems and managed to resolve it?


 


audiobear said:


> Mine arrives next week and I will be using it with a MacPro and a MacBookPro so I hope you work this out.
> 
> It is sort of surprising since I have never had a problem with macs recognizing USB devices.
> 
> Does it play on an iPhone or iPod set-up for digital output?  Just curious, knowing this won't help your problem.


 
 I too will be doing the majority of my testing, when my Gungnir Multibit arrives next week, on a MacBook from 2008. Everything I have plugged into it thus far has been simply plug-and-play.
  
 And I suspect I will not have an issue as my current Bifrost Uber works fine.


----------



## bflat

sheldaze said:


> I too will be doing the majority of my testing, when my Gungnir Multibit arrives next week, on a MacBook from 2008. Everything I have plugged into it thus far has been simply plug-and-play.
> 
> And I suspect I will not have an issue as my current Bifrost Uber works fine.


 

 Pretty sure that Schitt re-programmed the USB card inside the GMB so it can communicate what bit rates it supports to Mac OS. This was something I was wondering myself - does the new GMB still display 24/192 like the old model or does R2R DACs display something completely different? I am a little worried too that something may not work without a driver in Mac OS.


----------



## Hardwired

jk-47 said:


> Nice
> 
> Looks like you have socket savers in the MJ2???




Correct. Makes tube rolling MUCH easier and keeps the tubes cooler.


----------



## Baldr

Gungnir Multibit uses the same USB PCB utilized in the original Gungnir and all Bifrosts.  There are thousands of these boards out in the wild without especially Mac, PC, or even in most cases, Linux problems.  Please try you Macbook, if possible, with another USB DAC.


----------



## AustinValentine

puzzles said:


> Now I finally got the Gungnir MB but it won't work with my Macbook. My decade-old PC does find it, but whatever I do on my Mac, it won't recognize the Gungnir. The Schiit support says to do an SMC reset and to use an externally powered USB hub, but all that doesn't seem to work. This is the first time I ever had problems with a DAC though. Has anyone else had similar problems and managed to resolve it?


 
  
 A few preliminary support questions: 
  
 1. What playback/media program are you using with your Macbook? 
  
 2. When you say that it won't work, is it visible at all in System Preferences > Sound? It should show up as "Speaker-Schiit USB Audio Device".
  
 3. Do you have the proper input selected via the input select button on the front of the unit? Sometimes it gets bumped to one of the other inputs on accident.


----------



## Stillhart

I did notice that my GMB was clicking a bit when I used a front-port on my PC.  Moving to a back port (directly connected to MB) cleared it up.  Thing is, my Audio-GD DAC's worked fine in the same port.  The GMB seems to be a bit more sensitive to USB noise than my other DAC's.
  
 Not sure how this relates to the problem with the Mac (I'm using Win 7) but some food for thought.


----------



## BDM-Fi

puzzles said:


> Now I finally got the Gungnir MB but it won't work with my Macbook. My decade-old PC does find it, but whatever I do on my Mac, it won't recognize the Gungnir. The Schiit support says to do an SMC reset and to use an externally powered USB hub, but all that doesn't seem to work. This is the first time I ever had problems with a DAC though. Has anyone else had similar problems and managed to resolve it?



Have you tried both USB ports? My left MBPro port stoppen working with my DAC recently... .


----------



## reddog

My mac works just fine with the Gungnir MULTIBIT.


----------



## AxelCloris

puzzles said:


> Now I finally got the Gungnir MB but it won't work with my Macbook. My decade-old PC does find it, but whatever I do on my Mac, it won't recognize the Gungnir. The Schiit support says to do an SMC reset and to use an externally powered USB hub, but all that doesn't seem to work. This is the first time I ever had problems with a DAC though. Has anyone else had similar problems and managed to resolve it?


 


bdm-fi said:


> Have you tried both USB ports? My left MBPro port stoppen working with my DAC recently... .


 
  
 What BDM-Fi said could be accurate for you, Puzzles. My "top" USB port doesn't work with USB DACs for whatever reason, but the "bottom" works no issue. I have an older mid-2012 MBP and the one slot stopped recognizing audio devices several months ago. It still recognizes USB memory cards and external drives, so it's not a bad port. Maybe you are having a similar issue.


----------



## Puzzles

austinvalentine said:


> A few preliminary support questions:
> 
> 1. What playback/media program are you using with your Macbook?
> 
> ...


 
  
 1. Amarra, but it doens't find the GMB either.
 2. Nope, it doesn't turn up there. 
 3. Yes. I've even tried all other modes.
  
  


axelcloris said:


> What BDM-Fi said could be accurate for you, Puzzles. My "top" USB port doesn't work with USB DACs for whatever reason, but the "bottom" works no issue. I have an older mid-2012 MBP and the one slot stopped recognizing audio devices several months ago. It still recognizes USB memory cards and external drives, so it's not a bad port. Maybe you are having a similar issue.


 
  
 I've tried both ports. Nothing. But they do work with my other DACs.
  
  
  
 Since the GMB does appear in Windows (however that worked out), there might be actually a problem with my Macbook. But it's clear at whom those guys at the genius bar will be pointing to when I say that all USB devices work fine except the Gungnir.


----------



## Mediahound

bflat said:


> Pretty sure that Schitt re-programmed the USB card inside the GMB so it can communicate what bit rates it supports to Mac OS. This was something I was wondering myself - does the new GMB still display 24/192 like the old model or does R2R DACs display something completely different? I am a little worried too that something may not work without a driver in Mac OS.




 Everything works for me with my Mac. No issues at all.


----------



## AustinValentine

puzzles said:


> 1. Amarra, but it doens't find the GMB either.
> 2. Nope, it doesn't turn up there.
> 3. Yes. I've even tried all other modes.


 
  
 Hmmmmmm. Well, that rules out my next chain of inquiry (checking the Audio MIDI settings to make sure nothing is muted). As far as pickles go this one's a dilly.


----------



## AndreYew

If you look in System Information (click on the Apple logo on the upper left corner, select About This Mac, and then click on System Report in the window that pops up), click on USB in the left column in the Hardware section, can you find the Gungnir or more likely some kind of unrecognized USB device in the USB tree on the right column?


----------



## MattTCG

I had lot's of trouble with the GMB during the driver install. (I fix pc's for a living so I do know my way around windows)  I have windows 10 on a new custom pc. Downloaded the driver from the Schiit site and I've never had any trouble with any of the Schiit dacs or any dacs for that matter with regard to driver installs. 
  
 The first three times the software would call for the dac to be connected but would not recognize when I did. Restarted the pc and tried again. This time the installation completed so I thought I was good. But when I cued up some music with jriver it started and then froze. Had to manually shut the pc down. Then I had to install the driver in compatibility mode and all seems to be working. 
  
 This GMB does not get as hot as the original. Can't explain why...


----------



## Dalgas

matttcg said:


> I had lot's of trouble with the GMB during the driver install. (I fix pc's for a living so I do know my way around windows)  I have windows 10 on a new custom pc. Downloaded the driver from the Schiit site and I've never had any trouble with any of the Schiit dacs or any dacs for that matter with regard to driver installs.
> 
> The first three times the software would call for the dac to be connected but would not recognize when I did. Restarted the pc and tried again. This time the installation completed so I thought I was good. But when I cued up some music with jriver it started and then froze. Had to manually shut the pc down. Then I had to install the driver in compatibility mode and all seems to be working.
> 
> This GMB does not get as hot as the original. Can't explain why...


 
 Hopefully you were "just" unlucky" with the installment....But this is the only good thing about living i europe and having to wait longer for the possibility of an upgrade - You guys get to try the GMB first but you also have to deal with the problems....and help find the solutions.
  
 The delta-sigma Gungnir gets quite hot for my taste....so thats good news


----------



## David Aldrich

This is an issue more an issue with Windows 10. The Gungnir and Gungnir Multi-Bit use the same USB card and same drivers.
  
 If you are looking for a painless system I would recommend against Windows 10. It's too new and is so far not 100% reliable.
  
 Quote:


dalgas said:


> Hopefully you were "just" unlucky" with the installment....But this is the only good thing about living i europe and having to wait longer for the possibility of an upgrade - You guys get to try the GMB first but you also have to deal with the problems....and help find the solutions.
> 
> The delta-sigma Gungnir gets quite hot for my taste....so thats good news


 
  
  


matttcg said:


> I had lot's of trouble with the GMB during the driver install. (I fix pc's for a living so I do know my way around windows)  I have windows 10 on a new custom pc. Downloaded the driver from the Schiit site and I've never had any trouble with any of the Schiit dacs or any dacs for that matter with regard to driver installs.
> 
> The first three times the software would call for the dac to be connected but would not recognize when I did. Restarted the pc and tried again. This time the installation completed so I thought I was good. But when I cued up some music with jriver it started and then froze. Had to manually shut the pc down. Then I had to install the driver in compatibility mode and all seems to be working.
> 
> This GMB does not get as hot as the original. Can't explain why...


----------



## Dalgas

I will keep my win 7 then


----------



## reddog

Hello here are my first impressions of the Gungnir Multibit, after 18 hours of warm up. The GMB sounds very nice, though not as detailed or resolute as the Yggy. The bass is nice, its just not as detailed or textured as the Yggy. Likewise the mids are smooth as lush, very musical, just not as detailed and revealing as the Yggy. The highs sound very nice, yet again not at detailed as the Yggy. The soundstage is nice but not as large, nor detailed as the Yggy, thus not as holographic. I feel the GMB is a good dac that has a lush, musical sound, and it should compliment the Liquid Carbon. I used the HE1K and the Ether, for my initial impressions and they both sounded fantastic through the GMB and Rag.


----------



## MattTCG

reddog said:


> Hello here are my first impressions of the Gungnir Multibit, after 18 hours of warm up. The GMB sounds very nice, though not as detailed or resolute as the Yggy. The bass is nice, its just not as detailed or textured as the Yggy. Likewise the mids are smooth as lush, very musical, just not as detailed and revealing as the Yggy. The highs sound very nice, yet again not at detailed as the Yggy. The soundstage is nice but not as large, nor detailed as the Yggy, thus not as holographic. I feel the GMB is a good dac that has a lush, musical sound, and it should compliment the Liquid Carbon. I used the HE1K and the Ether, for my initial impressions and they both sounded fantastic through the GMB and Rag.


 
  
 Thank you kindly sir! I appreciate that you've got a rare combo and many people here are looking for impressions to help make their decision between the two. I have few questions:
  
 *Can the yggy be used on the desktop or is it rack only? (the gun fits on my desk by barely)
  
 *Are there any perceived differences in sound staging width or depth?
  
 *What hp's are you testing with?
  
 *Ultimately do you feel the extra cash is justified if you've got it to spend?
  
 *Which dac does your cat prefer?


----------



## MattTCG

Even after 20 hours the GMB is not nearly as hot as the original Gun.


----------



## Puzzles

andreyew said:


> If you look in System Information (click on the Apple logo on the upper left corner, select About This Mac, and then click on System Report in the window that pops up), click on USB in the left column in the Hardware section, can you find the Gungnir or more likely some kind of unrecognized USB device in the USB tree on the right column?




Again, nothing.


Guess I'll return it and see what Schiit says.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> Thank you kindly sir! I appreciate that you've got a rare combo and many people here are looking for impressions to help make their decision between the two. I have few questions:
> 
> *Can the yggy be used on the desktop or is it rack only? (the gun fits on my desk by barely)
> 
> ...



I think its best to use the Yggdrasil on a rack, it big and bulky, and will eat your desktop space.
The sound staging on the Yggy is both wider and deeper, thus it has a better three-dimensional holographic soundstage. I think this is do to the Yggy's ability to be more detailed and revealing. I really like the yggy for it detail and what not, however the Gungnir Multibit is a great buy, it sounds very nice, the overall sound signature is smooth and lush. If one has the cash, go for the Yggy, but the GMB is a fine alternative, if one once to spend the money towards better cans.
P.s my cat prefers a warm Ragnarock to sleep upon. But my cat mostly sleeps on my stuff during winter. I hope everyone has a great day jamming out.


----------



## Stillhart

david aldrich said:


> This is an issue more an issue with Windows 10. The Gungnir and Gungnir Multi-Bit use the same USB card and same drivers.
> 
> If you are looking for a painless system I would recommend against Windows 10. It's too new and is so far not 100% reliable.


 
  
 I agree completely, this seems pretty self-evident to me.  There's an old rule of thumb when deciding whether or not to upgrade your OS:  if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
  


dalgas said:


> I will keep my win 7 then


 
  
 Yup, Windows 7 is the best Windows OS Microsoft has ever made.  I'll "upgrade" once people stop making drivers for it.


----------



## pzwief

Is the Gungnir Multibit a NOS (non over sampling) no upsampling bit perfect DAC like the Yggdrasil?


----------



## Stillhart

pzwief said:


> Is the Gungnir Multibit a NOS (non over sampling) no upsampling bit perfect DAC like the Yggdrasil?


 
  
 The Yggy and the GMB both do 8x oversampling as I understand it.


----------



## US Blues

stillhart said:


> pzwief said:
> 
> 
> > Is the Gungnir Multibit a NOS (non over sampling) no upsampling bit perfect DAC like the Yggdrasil?
> ...


 

 Yes, and the key is they retain the original data, unlike other DAC's.


----------



## artemart

Hey guys,
  
 I just placed my order to upgrade my Gungnir to GMB.
  
 I was wondering should I also place an order for an upgrade to "USB GEN 2"? I am currently using "optical spdif" and would like to know if "USB GEN 2" will make any difference.


----------



## MattTCG

artemart said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I just placed my order to upgrade my Gungnir to GMB.
> 
> I was wondering should I also place an order for an upgrade to "USB GEN 2"? I am currently using "optical spdif" and would like to know if "USB GEN 2" will make any difference.


 
  
 When I had the original gungnir with the first iteration of usb, I used optical. The original usb implementation did not compete with optical IMO. When usb gen 2 upgrades came out to good reviews, I decided to give it a try. Now I'd never go back to optical. It was an appreciable upgrade. 
  
 FWIW, the GMB needs 24 not 12 hours of warm up IMO.


----------



## Youth

How do you guys think Beyer A2 amp would pair with this?


----------



## schneller

Two Questions:
  
 1. Would the Gungnir MB benefit from the addition of a Wyrd into the chain?
 2. Has anyone compared the MB against the Chord 2Qute? $1250 vs. $1800... $550.00 is not a lot for for the build quality, brand reputation, etc. of a Chord product, IMO. We also know which one would better hold resale value. But what about SQ?


----------



## Youth

schneller said:


> Two Questions:
> 
> *1. Would the Gungnir MB benefit from the addition of a Wyrd into the chain?*
> 2. Has anyone compared the MB against the Chord 2Qute? $1250 vs. $1800... $550.00 is not a lot for for the build quality, brand reputation, etc. of a Chord product, IMO. We also know which one would better hold resale value. But what about SQ?


 
  
 I would also like to know this.


----------



## JK-47

youth said:


> I would also like to know this.


 

 People on another forum have said the Wyrd does help the GMB


----------



## jimmypowder

schneller said:


> Two Questions:
> 
> 1. Would the Gungnir MB benefit from the addition of a Wyrd into the chain?
> 2. Has anyone compared the MB against the Chord 2Qute? $1250 vs. $1800... $550.00 is not a lot for for the build quality, brand reputation, etc. of a Chord product, IMO. We also know which one would better hold resale value. But what about SQ?




I can tell you that the Chord 2qute is significantly better than the delta sigma Gungnir . I have sent the Gungnir in for the MB upgrade and will reevaluate and give my impressions hopefully this upcoming week .


----------



## Stillhart

schneller said:


> Two Questions:
> 
> 1. Would the Gungnir MB benefit from the addition of a Wyrd into the chain?
> 2. Has anyone compared the MB against the Chord 2Qute? $1250 vs. $1800... $550.00 is not a lot for for the build quality, brand reputation, etc. of a Chord product, IMO. We also know which one would better hold resale value. But what about SQ?







youth said:


> I would also like to know this.







jk-47 said:


> People on another forum have said the Wyrd does help the GMB



The benefits of the Wyrd are dependent on how crappy your USB is, not the DAC. 

FWIW tho, I found the GMB to be very sensitive to bad USB. More so than any of my other DAC's.


----------



## Erukian

I only turn on my Gungnir when I use it, and don't run int 24/7 like what seems like some of you folks do.
  
 Are there any solid reasons on why running it warmed up makes a difference? Someone earlier said Mike Moffat said to leave it on, this is news to me.


----------



## MattTCG

erukian said:


> I only turn on my Gungnir when I use it, and don't run int 24/7 like what seems like some of you folks do.
> 
> Are there any solid reasons on why running it warmed up makes a difference? Someone earlier said Mike Moffat said to leave it on, this is news to me.


 
  
 If Moffat said to leave it on, then it's for a good reason. Most likely being that as the components come up to operating temperature the sonics improve.


----------



## schneller

jimmypowder said:


> I can tell you that the Chord 2qute is significantly better than the delta sigma Gungnir . I have sent the Gungnir in for the MB upgrade and will reevaluate and give my impressions hopefully this upcoming week .


 
  
 Thanks. Looking forward to that.


----------



## deadie

> Originally Posted by *jimmypowder*
> 
> 
> I can tell you that the Chord 2qute is significantly better than the delta sigma Gungnir . I have sent the Gungnir in for the MB upgrade and will reevaluate and give my impressions hopefully this upcoming week.
> ...


 
  
 Same here -- as a Hugo owner now looking for a standalone DAC, I look forward to the comparison between the 2Qute and the GMB.


----------



## Jozurr

Well once you spend another $550 and go for the Chord, then it's another $600 away to the Yggy. Slippery slope really..


----------



## PATB

Weird, the warm sound is now gone after 24+ hours of burn-in.  The treble has opened up, and is now quite resolving.  But I am not sure I like the change.
  
 I A/B with my lowly TEAC UD-301 and I am beginning to appreciate the warmer, thicker sound of the TEAC; the TEAC is definitely not in the same league as the GMB in terms of resolution, but the TEAC is more fun to listen to.  
  
 The GMB may not be the best pairing with my KGSSHV-SR009 after all -- most of my CDs are not perfect, so the GMB accentuates the hiss and other artifacts.  I hear the artifacts even on recordings that I thought were good; the artifacts are also there with the TEAC (I had to double check), but I never noticed them until now.  With the GMB, the artifacts get annoying. Too much of a good thing, I guess.

 Also, there is no GEN 2 USB driver for my Windows Vista laptop, so I have to use the GEN 1 USB driver, which does not support WASAPI event style. The TEAC UD-301, by comparison, has an excellent ASIO driver that works on all Windows versions.  So I am mainly using optical with my GMB, using a TASCAM CD-200 as a transport.  I hope Schitt offers the GEN 3 USB as an upgrade later on, and provide better drivers.
  
 I still have a couple of days to decide whether to ship this back or not.  I am leaning towards keeping it, as I really think it is an excellent value.  I am just not sure it is a good match for my electrostat rig.


----------



## jimmypowder

patb said:


> Weird, the warm sound is now gone after 24+ hours of burn-in.  The treble has opened up, and is now quite resolving.  But I am not sure I like the change.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If you want warm , buy an tube amp . You want your Dac to be highly resolving .

I will be pairing the MB Gungnir with a Rogue Cronos Magnum tube amp


----------



## PATB

jimmypowder said:


> If you want warm , buy an tube amp . You want your Dac to be highly resolving .
> 
> I will be pairing the MB Gungnir with a Rogue Cronos Magnum tube amp


 

 My next AB session is to put the GMB in my balanced tube amp rig (SDS-XLR/HD650), that should be a better pairing.  I am just too lazy to rearrange my rigs at the moment, too much fun drinking on a lazy Sunday afternoon.


----------



## Stillhart

Yes, I've found the GMB to be pretty unforgiving of poor recordings, thanks to its highly resolving nature.  As the other fellow said, if you want to tone that back a bit, try a tube amp.  I agree, I don't think a DAC can ever be too resolving.


----------



## PATB

I don't mind resolving, what I don't like is the presentation of the extra resolution.  There is something very digital about the GMB sound.  I have heard very resolving DACs at the California Audio Show two weeks ago, and they are not obtrusive.  The Bricasti M1, for instance -- too bad I can't afford it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  The other is the Ayre QB-9 DSD.  
  
 Stillhart, looking forward to your comparison with the AudioGd DAC-19.


----------



## jimmypowder

patb said:


> I don't mind resolving, what I don't like is the presentation of the extra resolution.  There is something very digital about the GMB sound.  I have heard very resolving DACs at the California Audio Show two weeks ago, and they are not obtrusive.  The Bricasti M1, for instance -- too bad I can't afford it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have found that my Delta Sigma Gungnir is a little too warm for my tastes.That's why I sent it in for the MB upgrade ,particularly considering I'm using tube 
 amps like Primaluna and Rogue. 
  
 I want extra resolution paired with tube amps.With a SS amp maybe not so much depending on the quality of the amp.  I will certainly never pay 9K for a Bricasti .An Ayre I have considered.


----------



## Youth

I'm a bit confused, is this a warmish or bright DAC?


----------



## US Blues

patb said:


> I don't mind resolving, what I don't like is the presentation of the extra resolution.  There is something very digital about the GMB sound.  I have heard very resolving DACs at the California Audio Show two weeks ago, and they are not obtrusive.  The Bricasti M1, for instance -- too bad I can't afford it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I own 3 Schiit products: Gungnir (D-S), Yggy and a Ragnarok. Each of them required a good 200+ hours of burn in to really find their "final" sound. I counsel you to be patient with your GMB for a couple of weeks at least before concluding that it has reached it's sound.


----------



## Mediahound

us blues said:


> I own 3 Schiit products: Gungnir (D-S), Yggy and a Ragnarok. Each of them required a good 200+ hours of burn in to really find their "final" sound. I counsel you to be patient with your GMB for a couple of weeks at least before concluding that it has reached it's sound.


 

 Is that with something playing through them and not just powered on?


----------



## US Blues

mediahound said:


> us blues said:
> 
> 
> > I own 3 Schiit products: Gungnir (D-S), Yggy and a Ragnarok. Each of them required a good 200+ hours of burn in to really find their "final" sound. I counsel you to be patient with your GMB for a couple of weeks at least before concluding that it has reached it's sound.
> ...


 

 The DAC's were powered up but not playing continually, although I did my best to listen a lot. The Rag I turned on and off due to it's heat output, and the instructions from Schiit that said to power down when not in use.
  
 I like to live with a piece of gear for a while before coming to conclusions, because the changes over time are unpredictable.


----------



## Stillhart

youth said:


> I'm a bit confused, is this a warmish or bright DAC?


 
  
 I think it's pretty neutral, personally.  lol


----------



## Liu Junyuan

The DS version was slightly warm yet remained very energetic. I am curious to see how the MB compares tonally to the DS version.


----------



## jimmypowder

liu junyuan said:


> The DS version was slightly warm yet remained very energetic. I am curious to see how the MB compares tonally to the DS version.



Here's hoping its a split between the warmer Gungnir and the very high resolution Yggy ! If so I will be happy . That's what I'm looking for .


----------



## Liu Junyuan

jimmypowder said:


> Here's hoping its a split between the warmer Gungnir and the very high resolution Yggy ! If so I will be happy . That's what I'm looking for .




Me as well.


----------



## AudioBear

Mine should be here Wednesday, Fedex willing.  I am hoping for neutral, transparent, and highly resolving.  Maybe one of us will get their wish.  Or does beauty still lie in the eye of the beholder?  If so we could all be happy, or not.


----------



## Mediahound

Near as I can tell so far, this is exactly what the Gungnir MB is. That said, I have not heard the regular Gungnir nor the Yggy but am listening to the MB as we speak.


----------



## AudioBear

nor I,  everything i know about them i learned on these forums which is pretty scary.
  
 I always wanted to spend $1300+  on a piece of Schiit,


----------



## Topspin70

patb said:


> I don't mind resolving, what I don't like is the presentation of the extra resolution.  There is something very digital about the GMB sound.  I have heard very resolving DACs at the California Audio Show two weeks ago, and they are not obtrusive.  The Bricasti M1, for instance -- too bad I can't afford it
> 
> 
> 
> ...




+1 +2


----------



## lukeap69

patb said:


> Weird, the warm sound is now gone after 24+ hours of burn-in.  The treble has opened up, and is now quite resolving.  But I am not sure I like the change.



 


FWIW, I've experienced the same with my DAC-19. It was warm the first day I used it and the difference between it and the NFB-1DAC is very noticeable. After a DAC, I felt it became less warm, more resolving, etc. The difference with the NFB-1DAC is still noticeable but not as much. 

Question. GMB is oversampling, right? Is there a way to turn that off (i.e. change to 1X oversampling in Audio-gd's term?)


----------



## Stillhart

lukeap69 said:


> patb said:
> 
> 
> > Weird, the warm sound is now gone after 24+ hours of burn-in.  The treble has opened up, and is now quite resolving.  But I am not sure I like the change.
> ...


 
  
 Nope, there's no way to turn that off.  FWIW, when I asked Mike Moffatt about NOS DAC's he made a face and remarked as to how he doesn't like NOS.  lol


----------



## lukeap69

stillhart said:


> Nope, there's no way to turn that off.  FWIW, when I asked Mike Moffatt about NOS DAC's he made a face and remarked as to how he doesn't like NOS.  lol


 

 Thanks Dan. What Mike doesn't want maybe others do. There are still others who prefer NOS DACs.​ I wish there was an option so we can play with it.


----------



## Stillhart

lukeap69 said:


> Thanks Dan. What Mike doesn't want maybe others do. There are still others who prefer NOS DACs.​ I wish there was an option so we can play with it.


 
  
 Yeah, I feel ya.  Can't blame the guy for making what he likes to hear tho.  :-D


----------



## Mediahound

Can anyone tell me what are the optimal settings in Amarra for the Gungnir MB? Do I want dithering on or off? How about brickwall limiter?
  

  
 Update, got my answer regarding dither. It's not on unless using the volume slider which I don't.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

patb said:


> I don't mind resolving, what I don't like is the presentation of the extra resolution.  There is something very digital about the GMB sound.  I have heard very resolving DACs at the California Audio Show two weeks ago, and they are not obtrusive.  The Bricasti M1, for instance -- too bad I can't afford it    The other is the Ayre QB-9 DSD.
> 
> Stillhart, looking forward to your comparison with the AudioGd DAC-19.




While I completely concur it best to allow the Gungnir to run for some time prior to drawing too many conclusions, I may know what you mean, coming from my Theta. Are you referring primarily to non-acoustic music? The Theta sounds amazing with most natural instruments, voices, and live recordings. It made me decide at last to part with my dear DS Gungnir. Some electronic music, especially ambient, excelled on the Theta over the DS Gungnir. Yet it also has this propensity to sound harsh and almost glassy with other electronic music I previously enjoyed on other DS DACs. I recall reading somewhere here Moffat admitting this to be the case, accompanied with a characteristically wry comment that his R2R DACs are meant for "real" music and not some "artificial" sound-waves concocted on a machine. I wonder if this is what is going on in the Gumby as well. Your comment on the digital nature of the sound is interesting. 

Perhaps the 1704 chip in the AGD R2Rs have less of an issue here, given their different flavor from those of the Schiit DACs. 

I would try to play some acoustic music and A/B between your TEAC to see which comes out better. For me the Theta is anything but harsh with such recordings and surpassed the DS Gungnir by a significant margin in terms of raw enjoyment. I would expect the Gumby to then surpass the 25 year-old Theta here. 

Also, not sure if your connection via optical is the best for Schiit's gear. I have heard mixed reports, usually on the negative side, but have yet to try myself.


----------



## Baldr

A clarification --
  
 NOS DACs are fine -- it is the analog reconstruction filter "brick-wall" proper to those designs which add significant time-domain anomalies to the output.
  
 An Yggy or MB Gungnir really behaves as a NOS DAC in the sense that it preserves all original samples,but also interpolates to 8x the original sample rate, so that proper time-domain performance is passed to the output.  A quasi-hybrid, if you please.


----------



## lukeap69

baldr said:


> A clarification --
> 
> NOS DACs are fine -- it is the analog reconstruction filter "brick-wall" proper to those designs which add significant time-domain anomalies to the output.
> 
> An Yggy or MB Gungnir really behaves as a NOS DAC in the sense that it preserves all original samples,but also interpolates to 8x the original sample rate, so that proper time-domain performance is passed to the output.  A quasi-hybrid, if you please.




Thanks for the clarification Mike.


----------



## MattTCG

baldr said:


> A clarification --
> 
> NOS DACs are fine -- it is the analog reconstruction filter "brick-wall" proper to those designs which add significant time-domain anomalies to the output.
> 
> An Yggy or MB Gungnir really behaves as a NOS DAC in the sense that it preserves all original samples,but also interpolates to 8x the original sample rate, so that proper time-domain performance is passed to the output.  A quasi-hybrid, if you please.


 
  
 Thanks Mike, I appreciate the clarification. I was also wondering why the GMB doesn't get nearly as hot as the DS Gungnir. Not that it matters but I found it curious.


----------



## hodgjy

Hey Matt,
  
 How does the HD650 pair with the GMB? Is the added resolution and neutrality easily apparent? I love the HD650 except for some loss of detail and its slight problems with congestion.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Dalgas

matttcg said:


> Thanks Mike, I appreciate the clarification. I was also wondering why the GMB doesn't get nearly as hot as the DS Gungnir. Not that it matters but I found it curious.


 
 I too wonder why that would be the case...


----------



## jimmypowder

hodgjy said:


> Hey Matt,
> 
> How does the HD650 pair with the GMB? Is the added resolution and neutrality easily apparent? I love the HD650 except for some loss of detail and its slight problems with congestion.
> 
> Thanks.




Have you bought a replacement cable for the 650's ? I did and noticed significant improvement in resolution . The stock cable stinks .


----------



## hodgjy

jimmypowder said:


> Have you bought a replacement cable for the 650's ? I did and noticed significant improvement in resolution . The stock cable stinks .


 
 I don't believe in cable replacement magic. I use replacement cables for strength and aesthetics, but I've never heard a difference between them.


----------



## jimmypowder

hodgjy said:


> I don't believe in cable replacement magic. I use replacement cables for strength and aesthetics, but I've never heard a difference between them.


 
 Try it .There is no doubt after I did that it improved resolution with the 650's


----------



## hodgjy

jimmypowder said:


> Try it .There is no doubt after I did that it improved resolution with the 650's


 
 No fancy cable will overcome these little wires connected to the drivers. 

  
 Besides, I want to know about the GMB, not aftermarket cables. I hate how every thread gets hijacked by cable talk.


----------



## drc73rp




----------



## MattTCG

hodgjy said:


> Hey Matt,
> 
> How does the HD650 pair with the GMB? Is the added resolution and neutrality easily apparent? I love the HD650 except for some loss of detail and its slight problems with congestion.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Well, I've only put about 72 hours on GMB so far. But I'd say that there is an appreciable upgrade from the DS gun. The GMB resolves incredibly well and the detail I'm hearing with the 650 is both impressive and enjoyable. 


dalgas said:


> I too wonder why that would be the case...


 
  
 Still wondering. 


jimmypowder said:


> Have you bought a replacement cable for the 650's ? I did and noticed significant improvement in resolution . The stock cable stinks .


 
  
 I have a Norne Zoetik and like it a lot. But mostly for the flexibility and custom length.


----------



## BRCMRGN

hodgjy said:


> No fancy cable will overcome these little wires connected to the drivers.


 
  
 That's a great theory, but not always true in the real world. I was at the Networld/Interop show where 100Mb Ethernet was first introduced, many, many years ago.  One of the demonstrations had a 100 meter spool of twisted pair cable connected to 1 meter of rusty barbed wire (1 strand per conductor) nailed to a piece of plywood and connected to a short twisted pair cable on the other end.  They were running 100mbps of traffic error free over that rig, including the barbed wire. I doubt that they could have had much more than one meter of barbed wire and have it still work, but it demonstrated clearly how much headroom the twisted pair cable spec has.  Maybe an inch of copper wire won't undo all of the goodness of the 4-10ft fancy cable preceeding it.


----------



## porridgecup

Has anyone here tried using a Jitterbug and/or REGEN with the Gungnir (w/ Gen 2 USB)? Curious if they're worth trying. I also know lots of people seem to be combining both the REGEN and Jitterbug.


----------



## Mediahound

porridgecup said:


> Has anyone here tried using a Jitterbug and/or REGEN with the Gungnir (w/ Gen 2 USB)? Curious if they're worth trying. I also know lots of people seem to be combining both the REGEN and Jitterbug.


 

 IMO, the Schiit Wyrd will do more than a Jitterbug.


----------



## MattTCG

I have the Wyrd on my radar and have for some time. I think that initially I felt that it was not for me because I don't have issues with jitter or noise over usb. BUT...I keep hearing that people are getting better low level details regardless using Wyrd, so it may need to be something that I have to try.


----------



## Mediahound

matttcg said:


> I have the Wyrd on my radar and have for some time. I think that initially I felt that it was not for me because I don't have issues with jitter or noise over usb. BUT...I keep hearing that people are getting better low level details regardless using Wyrd, so it may need to be something that I have to try.


 

 Initially I bought because I'm running a 10 foot USB from my mac to DAC. I wasn't getting dropouts, but did hear occasional noise. The Wyrd cleard that right up and added bonus for me, the presentation just seems a bit clearer over all. Very happy with it.


----------



## mikoss

I will be using the Wyrd with my Gumby. Will report back whenever the Gumby arrives. Shipped it in last week for MB goodness.


----------



## Hardwired

mediahound said:


> Initially I bought because I'm running a 10 foot USB from my mac to DAC. I wasn't getting dropouts, but did hear occasional noise. The Wyrd cleard that right up and added bonus for me, the presentation just seems a bit clearer over all. Very happy with it.


 
  
 That's interesting. A 10-foot USB cable will work on my GMB about 20% of the time and then just drops out and loses the connection for good until I reboot my PC. Going back to a 6-foot cable fixed that, but it's interesting the Wryd helps out a longer cable. Hmmm...


----------



## Stillhart

mikoss said:


> I will be using the Wyrd with my Gumby. Will report back whenever the Gumby arrives. Shipped it in last week for MB goodness.


 
  
 My understanding is that the value of the Wyrd kinda depends on your whole system, not just which DAC you're using.  So a Wyrd may help you but have no effect for someone else even if you're both using the same DAC.


----------



## Mediahound

hardwired said:


> That's interesting. A 10-foot USB cable will work on my GMB about 20% of the time and then just drops out and loses the connection for good until I reboot my PC. Going back to a 6-foot cable fixed that, but it's interesting the Wryd helps out a longer cable. Hmmm...


 
  
 It's not ideal, they (Schiit) recommend you use no longer than 2 meter cables ideally. But, the longer cable and the Wyrd is working for me, no issues at all. 
  


stillhart said:


> My understanding is that the value of the Wyrd kinda depends on your whole system, not just which DAC you're using.  So a Wyrd may help you but have no effect for someone else even if you're both using the same DAC.


 
  
 It can depend a lot on how good the USB card/chipset in your DAC is. The CMedia ones that Schiit uses are quite good. I've had a DAC in the past with a Tenor USB card in it that seemed weaker and cut out a lot more. 
  
 IMO, if I'm running USB, I'm running the Wyrd no matter what from now on. It just primes the connection for me so I don't have to worry about it at all.


----------



## TubemanRQ

Hi everyone,
  
  
    I use not one, not two, but THREE WYRDs in my main system! 
  
     OK, so I am using a two PC setup running JPlay. The audio PC feeds a PeachTree 24/192 USB/SPDIF converter. I originally tried one WYRD, and the improvement was NIGHT and DAY. I immediately heard a lower noise floor, more detail and focus, and things just seemed to gel as a whole much better. I then tried a second one back to back and things got a little better still. Then I tried a third, and it was ever so slightly better. A fourth one did not yield any improvements.
    The WYRD reminds me of the Theta Timebase Linque Conditioner which was essentially a jitter reducer inline with the digital cable and that unit WITH the high current power supply option was mind-blowing how much it improved people's systems.
  
 -TRQ


----------



## Mediahound

tubemanrq said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> I use not one, not two, but THREE WYRDs in my main system!
> ...


 

  Do you mean you run 3 Wyrd's inline in the same USB line? This seems sorta over the top OCD and frankly I sorta doubt doing this would make a difference.


----------



## Stillhart

mediahound said:


> Do you mean you run 3 Wyrd's inline in the same USB line? This seems sorta over the top OCD and frankly I sorta doubt doing this would make a difference.


 
  
 I believe he's using 3 or 4 Gungnirs in his system.


----------



## MattTCG

stillhart said:


> I believe he's using 3 or 4 Gungnirs in his system.


 
  
 Wouldn't that be kind of expensive? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I'd take one yggy any day over multiple GMB's.


----------



## Stillhart

matttcg said:


> Wouldn't that be kind of expensive?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 He's got some crazy speaker setup with different DAC's driving different frequency ranges and manual crossovers and stuff.  You can go read about it in the Schiit Show impressions thread.  It's way over my head.  lol


----------



## hodgjy

tubemanrq said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> 
> I use not one, not two, but THREE WYRDs in my main system!
> ...




How do you split the digital audio signal coming out of your computer over USB? Do you ever have timing issues?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Multibit Gungnir has landed. After an hour or so of warm up, I already prefer it to my Bryston BDA-2. More air, more detail, firmer bass and basically more enjoyable. Very curious to see what it sounds like after a few days.
  
 MacBook Pro > USB > GMB > Ragnarok > LCD-X


----------



## leafs

Exciting day for me. Just receive Gungnir Multibit, my first Schiit. It's been 2.5 hrs connected to Soloist > LCD2 r2. Received Ether too, but was disappointed with the quality control. Trying to get things sorted out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Can't wait to hear after burn-in sound to see how Gungnir Multibit perform.


----------



## Topspin70

olias of sunhillow said:


> Multibit Gungnir has landed. After an hour or so of warm up, I already prefer it to my Bryston BDA-2. More air, more detail, firmer bass and basically more enjoyable. Very curious to see what it sounds like after a few days.
> 
> MacBook Pro > USB > GMB > Ragnarok > LCD-X




Do u immediately notice the R2R difference? More realistic timbre, tones and cymbals sounding like real cymbals? Say yes and I might just say good bye to Sabre for good.


----------



## MattTCG

leafs said:


> Exciting day for me. Just receive Gungnir Multibit, my first Schiit. It's been 2.5 hrs connected to Soloist > LCD2 r2. Received Ether too, but was disappointed with the quality control. Trying to get things sorted out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What was the quality control issue?


----------



## US Blues

> Do u immediately notice the R2R difference? More realistic timbre, tones and cymbals sounding like real cymbals? Say yes and I might just say good bye to Sabre for good.


 
  
 Friend- I'll save you the wait, go multibit and never look back.


----------



## jfoxvol

us blues said:


> Friend- I'll save you the wait, go multibit and never look back.


 
 Same


----------



## leafs

matttcg said:


> What was the quality control issue?


 

 Sent you a PM mate.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

topspin70 said:


> Do u immediately notice the R2R difference? More realistic timbre, tones and cymbals sounding like real cymbals? Say yes and I might just say good bye to Sabre for good.


 

 Well, I'm going to be a little cautious with words after an hour of warm up and an hour of listening.... but yes, I do believe I heard a sort of meta-level difference between R2R and D-S. Whether that's new toy syndrome, the cumulative effect of years of Mike Moffat posts, or a bona fide "R2R Difference(R)" will require more listening.
  
 Tonight.
  
 The minute I get home.


----------



## Topspin70

us blues said:


> > Do u immediately notice the R2R difference? More realistic timbre, tones and cymbals sounding like real cymbals? Say yes and I might just say good bye to Sabre for good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm pretty certain I'll be joining the club soon. Question is which one. GMB or Audio GD Dac 19 or the coming Metrum Musette (though that's likely to cost as much as the Yggy which is out of my reach)


----------



## Arnotts

The GMB could potentially be a double edged sword - so far ahead of DS DACs that it's an incredible improvement, but in the process making DS DACs immediately noticeably inferior.
  
 As someone who is keeping a delta-sigma DAC in my secondary system, I'm not sure how I feel about this!


----------



## AudioBear

leafs said:


> Sent you a PM mate.


 

 Send me one too, I am thinking about buying an Ether.  Can't wait for your impressions of Ether on the Gungnir MB.


----------



## conquerator2

audiobear said:


> Send me one too, I am thinking about buying an Ether.  Can't wait for your impressions of Ether on the Gungnir MB.


 
 Send me three, please


----------



## bflat

GMB upgrade currently waiting for me to pickup at the Fedex store tonight. I am trying to convince them to take the box to the Dominos across the street and to keep it next to the pizza ovens so I can get a head start on the warm up time.


----------



## sheldaze

Delivery a day early 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Just checked mine - I missed it


----------



## Dalgas

hodgjy said:


> No fancy cable will overcome these little wires connected to the drivers.
> 
> 
> Besides, I want to know about the GMB, not aftermarket cables. I hate how every thread gets hijacked by cable talk.


 
 No offence but what is the diffence between wire and cable?


----------



## Dalgas

topspin70 said:


> I'm pretty certain I'll be joining the club soon. Question is which one. GMB or Audio GD Dac 19 or the coming Metrum Musette (though that's likely to cost as much as the Yggy which is out of my reach)


 
 The Musette is Metrums new entry-level dac - replacing Octave. Should be same price as Octave.


----------



## Puzzles

topspin70 said:


> I'm pretty certain I'll be joining the club soon. Question is which one. GMB or Audio GD Dac 19 or the coming Metrum Musette (though that's likely to cost as much as the Yggy which is out of my reach)


 
  
  
 It's all speculation, but I think that the Musette will be designed to sound rather liquid (or put negatively: dynamically laid-back, unexciting). Cees Ruijtenberg deliberately aims for such a turntable sound. I had the Metrum Octave for a month but its character annoyed me so much that I considered switching DACs already. There was just no R2R stuff in this price range that would do better in this regard. Fortunately, the GMB came out. If you prefer liquidity, the Musette might be worth a shot though. Just one more month to wait...


----------



## JK-47

mediahound said:


> IMO, the Schiit Wyrd will do more than a Jitterbug.


 
  
 My GMB will be here tomorrow, but my Wyrd got here today, so I tried it with my TEAC UD-301 DAC. It did make a difference with the TEAC, blacker background on needle drop FLAC's, slighlty improved the overall clarity. Almost like cleaning your car windows inside and out, everything is crisp and clear...


----------



## Topspin70

puzzles said:


> topspin70 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm pretty certain I'll be joining the club soon. Question is which one. GMB or Audio GD Dac 19 or the coming Metrum Musette (though that's likely to cost as much as the Yggy which is out of my reach)
> ...




Hmmm if that's the case Musette is off my list. I know what u mean. I had a Unico CD feeding a Audio Analogue Puccini via VDH IC for my speaker system once and while it's seductive it's also too sweet and restrained for me. 

Anyone compared the GMB and Dac 19?


----------



## porridgecup

What sort of differences are people noticing when upgrading to multibit? Is anyone else dissatisfied with the change? (For example, becoming brighter or warmer than they anticipated.)
  
 Still deciding if it's worth shelling the extra $500 for a partial improvement to what's basically the least important part of my gear chain.


----------



## AudioBear

Il est arrivée! Fedex came through a day early.  My new Gungnir MB is now turned on and playing files.  I had to listen a bit to get the inputs/outputs right and make sure it was playing.  I didn't really listen at any length because the Cavalli LC it pairs with isn't here yet and it's connected to a Micro iDSD as a single-ended amp.  What I did hear sounded fine.  I'll give it overnight to warm up and break in but that's about all.  I don't really much believe in breaking in solid state devices.  A little warm-up maybe.  Haven't decided if I will keep it on.  Probably will....
  
 More later.


----------



## bflat

LOL, just got my GMB plugged in and warming started. $500 for a tiny sticker on the back that says "Multi Bit". Make sure you don't lose that sticker in case you decide to sell later! No other way to know except opening the GMB up. Even the USB ID in Mac OSX is the same.
  
 Did a sound check and no issues with getting all the sampling rates to show up in Audirvana. Will have a real listen tomorrow.


----------



## AudioBear

Should have noted that mine was plug and play on a mac and also shows up to 24/192


----------



## money4me247

bflat said:


> LOL, just got my GMB plugged in and warming started. $500 for a tiny sticker on the back that says "Multi Bit". Make sure you don't lose that sticker in case you decide to sell later! No other way to know except opening the GMB up. Even the USB ID in Mac OSX is the same.
> 
> Did a sound check and no issues with getting all the sampling rates to show up in Audirvana. Will have a real listen tomorrow.


 
 hahaha thats an expensive sticker


----------



## Mediahound

bflat said:


> LOL, just got my GMB plugged in and warming started. $500 for a tiny sticker on the back that says "Multi Bit". Make sure you don't lose that sticker in case you decide to sell later! No other way to know except opening the GMB up. Even the USB ID in Mac OSX is the same.


 
  
  


money4me247 said:


> hahaha thats an expensive sticker


 
  
 Maybe they're not actually any different inside.


----------



## Stillhart

mediahound said:


> Maybe they're not actually any different inside.


 
  
 If you can't tell the difference between R2R and DS right away, you may be using 96k MP3's...


----------



## mikoss

bflat said:


> No other way to know except opening the GMB up.



... Or by listening to it and hearing the apparent difference


----------



## Dalgas

porridgecup said:


> What sort of differences are people noticing when upgrading to multibit? Is anyone else dissatisfied with the change? (For example, becoming brighter or warmer than they anticipated.)
> 
> Still deciding if it's worth shelling the extra $500 for a partial improvement to what's basically the least important part of my gear chain.


 
 Me too! I have only had my DS-Gungnir for about a month now and sound is still improving. I much prefer it over a Stello DA 220 Mk2 i have on loan. Hard to believe the GMB is that much better.....but maybe it is.


----------



## TubemanRQ

I heard the DISTINCT difference between the DS-Gungnir (which had probably 700 + hours on it)  and the new multibit (brand-new right out of the box)  on the very first note to the very first song I played through it. That was actually Jean Michelle Jarr and it was Oxygene 7 part 1. The first note had a much more palpable and extended treble that was much more cohesive and started from back behind the plane of the speakers, to decaying back behind the listening position to the far left. The DS Gungnir did NOT do that. I WAS HOOKED! So yes, you SHOULD be able to hear a difference right away.
  
    I am also using the new multibit Gungnir on the tweeters only for now, until I get the other Gungnir D-S DACs upgraded. So I suspect I am in for a real treat.  I use an all-active digital crossover, MiniDSP Nano-Digi 2x8 feeding four other Gungnirs.  The signal path is as follows: PC (using JPlay with a dual-PC setup) -USB-Wyrd 1-WYRD 2-WYRD 3- Peachtree USB/SPDF 24/192 converter -Behringer SRC 24/96 (used as a digital input patch bay because it accepts three digital inputs via AES/EBU, SPDIF, and TOSLINK), MiniDSP 2x8 - Gungnir Multibit 1 from 1kHz and up, Gungnir 2 D/S from 900Hz to 544 Hz, Gungnir 3 D/S from 544Hz to 100 Hz, Gungnir 4 D/S from 100Hz to 40Hz, then a Behringer DCX 24/96 feeding sealed stereo subs from 40Hz down  (and I actually am getting some room gain and a spike at 16Hz because of room gain.) My room is not very big though, so that really cool 16Hz wave does not even have a chance to fully crest, so you really don't "feel" it, but it shows up in Room EQ Wizard when I do measurements with the Dayton Audio UMM 6 measurement microphone at the listening position.
  
    Yes, it's a LOT of work, but I enjoy it. On a side note, I was seduced into listening to music yesterday when I was doing a few things online and the system  was playing in the background. I was listening to some Patrick O'Hearn and 3rd Force, and there was some really cool high frequency details and harmonics that were just GORGEOUS coming through that I hadn't so easily and readily noticed before, so I had to stop what I was doing and listen to music for about 30 minutes. I was IMMERSED in a 3-dimensional soundscape that was just addicting. Nuances of music were POPPING out to the side of the listening position and it seems ( now I'm at about the 175 hour mark for the Gungnir multibit burn-in) that it is opening up a bit more. I suspect there is still more room for improvement. You have to consider that being new, the multibit has all those capacitors, resistors, regulators, the transformers, the DAC chips, etc. All of that needs burned-in so I suspect the upgraded units I will be getting will have less burn-in time because the motherboard components will have already been burned-in, and the only thing needed to be burned in would be the actual upgrade multibit board itself.
  
    Aint this hobby FUN!!??
  
 Cheers!
 -TRQ
  
 P.S. My setup is entirely open-baffle, except for the sealed stereo subs. It is all DIY by me. I cannot listen to box speakers anymore. They all seem to sound closed-in. I really like the simplicity and openness of open-baffle speakers. Together with all active line-level crossovers in the digital domain, you can have a VERY revealing system without all the phase-shift that power-robbing passive crossover parts bring with it.  I had a lot of inspiration from my friend Monte. His website is www.mfk-projects.com . And of course to speaker designer Siegfried Linkwitz of linkwitzlab.com for his Orion open baffle design. Monte has a home theater with custom full reclining leather chairs, AND all active digital crossovers, with 12, YES 12, 15" woofers PER SIDE in open-baffle configuration. So that's 24 15" woofers in open-baffle in a stereo configuration fro his home theater. I have never heard (felt) such amazing bone-ratlling low frequency, yet it doesn't hurt your ears.


----------



## thomascrown

tubemanrq said:


> I heard the DISTINCT difference between the DS-Gungnir (which had probably 700 + hours on it)  and the new multibit (brand-new right out of the box)  on the very first note to the very first song I played through it. That was actually Jean Michelle Jarr and it was Oxygene 7 part 1. The first note had a much more palpable and extended treble that was much more cohesive and started from back behind the plane of the speakers, to decaying back behind the listening position to the far left. The DS Gungnir did NOT do that. I WAS HOOKED! So yes, you SHOULD be able to hear a difference right away.
> 
> I am also using the new multibit Gungnir on the tweeters only for now, until I get the other Gungnir D-S DACs upgraded. So I suspect I am in for a real treat.  I use an all-active digital crossover, MiniDSP Nano-Digi 2x8 feeding four other Gungnirs.  The signal path is as follows: PC (using JPlay with a dual-PC setup) -USB-Wyrd 1-WYRD 2-WYRD 3- Peachtree USB/SPDF 24/192 converter -Behringer SRC 24/96 (used as a digital input patch bay because it accepts three digital inputs via AES/EBU, SPDIF, and TOSLINK), MiniDSP 2x8 - Gungnir Multibit 1 from 1kHz and up, Gungnir 2 D/S from 900Hz to 544 Hz, Gungnir 3 D/S from 544Hz to 100 Hz, Gungnir 4 D/S from 100Hz to 40Hz, then a Behringer DCX 24/96 feeding sealed stereo subs from 40Hz down  (and I actually am getting some room gain and a spike at 16Hz because of room gain.) My room is not very big though, so that really cool 16Hz wave does not even have a chance to fully crest, so you really don't "feel" it, but it shows up in Room EQ Wizard when I do measurements with the Dayton Audio UMM 6 measurement microphone at the listening position.
> 
> ...


 
 Please post a picture of your set up if you don't mind. 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## artur9

jk-47 said:


> ... my Wyrd got here today, ... It did make a difference with the TEAC, blacker background on needle drop FLAC's, slighlty improved the overall clarity.


 
 Are you saying you used the Wyrd on the input side of an A/D to improve a needledrop?  Or just on playback of needledrops?
  
 Anyone tried the Wyrd to improve A/D performance?  If so, and it makes a difference, that would be a 2fer for me.


----------



## mikoss

Tubemanrq - you're describing the difference I heard the first time I auditioned the Yggy. It was crazy discovering how much musical information was always hidden, and then being presented. Notes coming from a much different place, with much more detailed textures... They also seemed to last longer, as if they'd been cut off abruptly without me even knowing so in the past. 

If you're hearing the same experience on Gumby, sounds like the multibit magic is definitely in full swing.


----------



## shabta

Not sure where to really post this... For give my ignorance: What does it mean that there are 19 bits in terms of hi-res audio files? I have a lot of hi-res audio, so do DS dacs in reality give the full 24 bit experience or are all DACs limited to less than full 24 bit reproduction? WHat is the implication for digitally recorded music, if they also use DACs that aren't truly 24 effective bits?  Does my question make any sense?


----------



## mikoss

Here is some info that I hope may help...

The bit depth of the music will translate into dynamic range... The difference between the lowest level of noise in the recording, and the highest. 

16 bit recordings offer around 96dB of dynamic range at best. In order to appreciate the scale of dB, you may need to appreciate the level of ambient noise, and our threshold of hearing. 

Your musical files may contain 24 bits, however the music information contained within them may never approach the entire dynamic range available (approximately 144dB). Also, your speakers/gear may never be able to properly transduce that information/signal into noise of that entire range, and even if they could, your ears would most likely be damaged in the process. 

A lot of DACs can play 24 or 32 bit files, however, it's certainly unlikely that most are capable of resolving much more than 110dB or so of dynamic range. The limitation is based on their design, components used, noise, etc. 

My take on what you may hear with a DAC such as the Yggdrasil (measuring over 121dB) and the MB Gungnir, which are actually *finally* capable of resolving at least 19 bits of resolution completely and fully? You just need to hear yourself. Suffice to say that these DACs are fully capable, no BS from Schiit.


----------



## JK-47

artur9 said:


> Are you saying you used the Wyrd on the input side of an A/D to improve a needledrop?  Or just on playback of needledrops?
> 
> Anyone tried the Wyrd to improve A/D performance?  If so, and it makes a difference, that would be a 2fer for me.


 
  
 Just the playback of needle drops...


----------



## shabta

mikoss said:


> Here is some info that I hope may help...
> 
> The bit depth of the music will translate into dynamic range... The difference between the lowest level of noise in the recording, and the highest.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks! I think I get it now.


----------



## TubemanRQ

mikoss said:


> Tubemanrq - you're describing the difference I heard the first time I auditioned the Yggy. It was crazy discovering how much musical information was always hidden, and then being presented. Notes coming from a much different place, with much more detailed textures... They also seemed to last longer, as if they'd been cut off abruptly without me even knowing so in the past.
> 
> If you're hearing the same experience on Gumby, sounds like the multibit magic is definitely in full swing.


 
 YEP! things are just coming out that were not really "realized" before. It's pretty cool. This 3d magic is starting to emerge more now. I fully expect to have increased sound quality as it burns in more.
  
 Cheers!
 -TRQ


----------



## US Blues

shabta said:


> Not sure where to really post this... For give my ignorance: What does it mean that there are 19 bits in terms of hi-res audio files? I have a lot of hi-res audio, so do DS dacs in reality give the full 24 bit experience or are all DACs limited to less than full 24 bit reproduction? WHat is the implication for digitally recorded music, if they also use DACs that aren't truly 24 effective bits?  Does my question make any sense?


 

 Along with the well-articulated description of increased dynamic range upthread, the is another important factor with higher resolution recordings (by which I mean bit depth, like 24 bits, along with the sampling rate, such as 96 kHz). The other factor is information density, the number of data points being sampled into the digital domain for eventual playback. In plain terms- Hi Res recordings can provide a quantity of detail that bring out the small things in the music, just as Hi Res can offer larger scale dynamics.
  
 I have in my music collection analog recordings transferred into Hi Res formats (24/96), that were also downsampled to rebook CD (16 bit/44.1 kHz). The sonic differences between them are clearly discernible to my ear, and from my experience the depth of detail, spatial cues (hall ambience, placement of sounds within the soundstage, etc.), instrument and vocal resonances, and so forth, are what separate well mastered Hi Res sources from their Redbook counterparts.
  
 Baldr had to work with 'secret math' to get Hi Res recordings to work with his new DAC's. The implication for Hi Res recordings is that there is a bit of trickery at work- the musical signal is being interpolated up to a certain bit depth, because there is no analog > digital converter on this planet that can do 24 accurate bits (Area 51 may have access to such technology, but we don't).
  
 And all that said- Yggy brings out detail from 16/44 sources that is mind boggling. Plus the early reviews of the GMB indicate that it is doing much the same.


----------



## porridgecup

Well, you guys have sold me. Don't think I have any choice but to upgrade.


----------



## gevorg

us blues said:


> Baldr had to work with 'secret math' to get Hi Res recordings to work with his new DAC's. The implication for Hi Res recordings is that there is a bit of trickery at work- the musical signal is being interpolated up to a certain bit depth, because there is no analog > digital converter on this planet that can do 24 accurate bits (Area 51 may have access to such technology, but we don't).




Yet, MSB claims to have DACs that go beyond 24 effective bits. Dunno if they're playing with math here to imply effective bits = accurate bits. Maybe they got the math for "perfect approximation"?  Anyway, most non-synthesized music captured via ADC rarely exceeds 20 bits of resolution.


----------



## mikoss

May I also add that I find a huge difference in the presentation of treble with R2R DACs in general vs delta sigma chipset DACs...

If you listen to vinyl and find that cymbals/percussion sound different than digital music, perhaps you'll have the same findings. I also think this may be where some people have coined the "digititus" syndrome. I thought there was an inherent difference simply because of the format, but now I understand that this simply isn't 100% the case. Cymbals and percussion carry a much different presentation to me on the Yggdrasil. 

I hear a compressed, unnatural sound on other delta sigma DACs that isn't present listening on vinyl. The multibit technology also seems to sound much closer to me to a vinyl rig than the other DACs I had previously enjoyed.

Yet another reason that hearing is believing.


----------



## Youth

Please don't say anymore, I'm just gonna buy it


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## jfoxvol

youth said:


> Please don't say anymore, I'm just gonna buy it


 
 Wise choice.


----------



## JK-47

mikoss said:


> May I also add that I find a huge difference in the presentation of treble with R2R DACs in general vs delta sigma chipset DACs...
> 
> If you listen to vinyl and find that cymbals/percussion sound different than digital music, perhaps you'll have the same findings. I also think this may be where some people have coined the "digititus" syndrome. I thought there was an inherent difference simply because of the format, but now I understand that this simply isn't 100% the case. Cymbals and percussion carry a much different presentation to me on the Yggdrasil.
> 
> ...


 

 Well said, I concur


----------



## sheldaze

Listening to my Gungnir Multibit for the first time. And I'd like to add one thing to the comments already written.
  
 The difference in sound, my previous DAC being a Schiit Bifrost Uber, need not be heard exclusively on high end equipment. I'm currently listening to a headphone and amp that each retail for $350. The difference, Delta-Sigma to R2R, is astounding. Personally, I've not felt much inclined to upgrade my other equipment because I did not feel there was something at the source I truly wanted to hear in higher fidelity. Now I do!


----------



## shabta

Thanks for all the explanations. I think I am going to have to buy one of these and drag it back to my home in France. Unfortunately I am still a month away from being able to listen to it....


----------



## TubemanRQ

I was speaking today with Ric Schultz of Electronic Visionary Systems, www.tweakaudio.com , and what we are listening to with the multibit upgrade, and Yggy, is also Mike Moffat's proprietary digital filter that he has been working on since the 80's! It's his personal proprietary filter, not the stock one that comes with these DAC chips. There have been previous R2R DACs that used the stock digital filters and they sounded. well, not as good. It seems the innovative new thing with DACs is to use a DAC designer's own digital filter. So it's just as much Moffat's filter as it is the DAC chips.
  
 Cheers!
  
 -TRQ


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Yes Mike and Jason have written many times in several head-fi threads about the filter. It truly is unique in its origin (an early 1900s mathematical paper), objectives and execution. I'm sure you would find it worthwhile hunting out these posts.


----------



## Mediahound

I'm really enjoying the Gungir Multibit so far. It's difficult for me to compare it to other DACs I've had because this is the first balanced DAC I've ever owned. 
  
 I had a Bifrost Uber, Burson Conductor and OPPO HA-1 before. The latter 2 are Sabre DACs, which I learned I really do not like the sound signature of.
  
 After leaving it on for about 5 days straight and listening to it a lot during that time too, it seems to be settling into a really sweet spot.  
  
 I'm hearing micro details with the Gungir MB that I've not heard before for sure.


----------



## Hardwired

I too moved from a Bifrost Uber to a GMB, and the only way I can describe the difference is I hear "more". More what? Just more. There's more music in the music, if that makes any sense. It's not more bass, or more treble, or more detail, or maybe it's all of those, but I just hear more meat/depth/quantity/quality in the music.
  
 The music sounds better loud, especially. Before, I had an upper limit to the volume before it got tiresome or overwhelming or whatever. Now I'll turn it up to hear a certain song, then another song I like plays and I'll turn it up some more. And again. The sound is so clean it never becomes noise. Good thing my wife has been out of town the past few days.


----------



## money4me247

hardwired said:


> I too moved from a Bifrost Uber to a GMB, and the only way I can describe the difference is I hear "more". More what? Just more. There's more music in the music, if that makes any sense. It's not more bass, or more treble, or more detail, or maybe it's all of those, but I just hear more meat/depth/quantity/quality in the music.
> 
> The music sounds better loud, especially. Before, I had an upper limit to the volume before it got tiresome or overwhelming or whatever. Now I'll turn it up to hear a certain song, then another song I like plays and I'll turn it up some more. And again. The sound is so clean it never becomes noise. Good thing my wife has been out of town the past few days.


 
 do you still have the bifrost uber for direct comparison?


----------



## JK-47

mediahound said:


> I'm really enjoying the Gungir Multibit so far. It's difficult for me to compare it to other DACs I've had because this is the first balanced DAC I've ever owned.
> 
> I had a Bifrost Uber, Burson Conductor and OPPO HA-1 before. The latter 2 are Sabre DACs, which I learned I really do not like the sound signature of.
> 
> ...


 
 I have the TEAC UD-301 (ran it balanced to the MJ2), and after 3 hours of up time on the Gumby, I have to say it is a real treat. I'm listening to songs I've listened to thousands of times before, and I'm picking up new sounds and subtleties.
  


hardwired said:


> I too moved from a Bifrost Uber to a GMB, and the only way I can describe the difference is I hear "more". More what? Just more. There's more music in the music, if that makes any sense. It's not more bass, or more treble, or more detail, or maybe it's all of those, but I just hear more meat/depth/quantity/quality in the music.
> 
> The music sounds better loud, especially. Before, I had an upper limit to the volume before it got tiresome or overwhelming or whatever. Now I'll turn it up to hear a certain song, then another song I like plays and I'll turn it up some more. And again. The sound is so clean it never becomes noise. Good thing my wife has been out of town the past few days.


 
 I agree, I'm simultaneously feeding my MJ2 balanced and my Elelkit TU-8200DX by way of the RCA's. There is a smoothness that really makes me want to keep listening and trying familiar songs to see if I can pick up new stuff. The first thing I noticed was how the treble has more texture, and was easier on my ears (I'm sensitive to hot treble, and upper mids). The whole frequency range seems to have another layer of sound... if that makes any sense.
  
 I have to add, songs that previously sounded a little strained in the upper mids to lower treble  (nasally, shouty) have now been made much more enjoyable.


----------



## dmhenley

Thought I'd share some feedback on my first days with the Gmb. Hopefully it will be useful to those who - like me - are at times overwhelmed with the amount of information available on the forums. There are many well spoken contributors who can provide the technical knowledge - that's not me.
 
A note on forum crawling:
It's both fantastic, and potentially confusing for a new kid like me. What I've learned - trust your ears, and learn which forum dwellers are closely aligned with your own tastes. That said, those who come from opposite poles are equally informative at times. There's so much noise out there, it can be difficult to get to the critical readings. 
Thanks to all who contribute. I pulled the trigger last week due in part to my reading of your comments here.
 
 My bottom line...there are (I assume) a lot of dacs that sound good/great, and/or are 'accurate'. I've heard a couple. 
 When a combination of gear can do things the others do - better - and, transfer the energy of a performance to the listener, I'd say it's something special. I'm leaning toward the romantic now, so I'll likely annoy you more analytical folk. I worked playing drums for 20+ years, so it's an example I'll often fall back on...I don't know (I mean, I've read all of it - but information is not knowledge, ya?) chips and digital filters, but I know music so it's the language I have to use.

 
*On to the important stuff...*
Approximately 100 hours in, about half of those with music playing. Still early. I've left it powered on the entire time. 
Even with the humble (but excellent!) ALO Pan Am driving analytical headphones I am having new experiences with records I've loved for decades. 
 
I originally chose a range of recordings that are complex, dense, or potentially challenging listens to attempt to illustrate what the Gmb does for me. I've left just one, in the interest of getting to the point.
 
Mikoss previously made mention of cymbals and the presentation of upper mid and high frequencies...
 
 Joshua Redman - Trios Live (a _fantastic performance/recording of an acoustic trio recorded live in a club_)
 Sax, bass and drums in a small venue - recorded very well. Overall, the presentation is cohesive, and maybe one or two tables from the stage. So, drums...
 Here, the stick definition is so natural. That sound of wood on alloys with the wash of lower register tones carrying the swing pattern forward. Momentum. Holy crap. There is palpable shove here...I can almost 'feel' the air moving.
 Drums have this sympathetic resonance that is often squeezed out of recordings, ya? Here, I can 'see' the kit (and the bass and sax) in the space. Spatial cues and staging are fantastic. The kick drum exists as a large-ish round object on the stage. And when Hutchinson smacks his ride cymbal hard, all those lovely tones wash back and forth with the swing of the cymbal. This dac got me moving, while listening on 'phones - normally that only happens when listening to speakers. I can't wait to get the new amp and rock this proper.

 
While listening(enjoying) is about the music as a whole -  I normally try to avoid dissecting it -  this (one of many) example sets this dac apart, in my experience. 
 
All of these things are difficult to reproduce convincingly, and the Gmb is doing this with one hand and making a sandwich with the other  Or, a milkshake. Or, doing all the other cool things it actually does.


----------



## wahsmoh

hardwired said:


> I too moved from a Bifrost Uber to a GMB, and the only way I can describe the difference is I hear "more". More what? Just more. There's more music in the music, if that makes any sense. It's not more bass, or more treble, or more detail, or maybe it's all of those, but I just hear more meat/depth/quantity/quality in the music.
> 
> The music sounds better loud, especially. Before, I had an upper limit to the volume before it got tiresome or overwhelming or whatever. Now I'll turn it up to hear a certain song, then another song I like plays and I'll turn it up some more. And again. The sound is so clean it never becomes noise. Good thing my wife has been out of town the past few days.


 
  
  
 I own Bifrost Uber and old 1994 Theta DS Pro Progeny A and I would compare the difference to the change from Gungnir D-S to Yggy or even Gungnir MB for a single ended DAC. This is 20 year old technology with a precision R2R hybrid 18-bit PCM67P-k and Motorola DSP with Theta proprietary filter algorithm. (Moffatt sauce) and it blew away the Uber..
  
 the Uber fits a nice middle-ground and sounds incredible for the price but it doesn't have the immense soundstage that the DSP brings or the natural timbre and ability to crank up volume without "ear bleeding" <------ just wanted to confirm with someone else what I was hearing


----------



## RCBinTN

I've owned the uberBiFrost and now the Gungnir DAC's.  Love them both.  
  
 My listening experience today with the non-upgraded Gungnir - Mojo - LCD-XC stack:  I can clearly hear the difference between the cymbals - high-hat - snare drum - cowbell.  They come across very clearly.  
  
 So, just how will the MB upgrade improve this sound?  
  
 Thanks -
 RCBinTN


----------



## sheldaze

One more comment - this is not at all the sound I was expecting to hear from the Multibit. The problem is I have never heard this sound before coming from speakers. I didn't expect it because I didn't know it. When passages became loud or cymbals became tizzy (on Delta-Sigma), I did not realize it was simply my brain getting confused by poorly converted digital information. There is just so much clear, concise information (on R2R), so many sonic clues as to what the musicians are doing, walking around the stage, striking the drums and cymbals in differing ways. I just cannot explain it.
  
 And being a piano player, listening to piano recordings is just amazing!


----------



## JK-47

sheldaze said:


> One more comment - this is not at all the sound I was expecting to hear from the Multibit. The problem is I have never heard this sound before coming from speakers. I didn't expect it because I didn't know it. When passages became loud or cymbals became tizzy (on Delta-Sigma), I did not realize it was simply my brain getting confused by poorly converted digital information. There is just so much clear, concise information (on R2R), so many sonic clues as to what the musicians are doing, walking around the stage, striking the drums and cymbals in differing ways. I just cannot explain it.
> 
> And being a piano player, listening to piano recordings is just amazing!


 
  
 I'm not trying to be condescending, but I assume you haven't listened to vinyl... but so far for me, the Gumby has come very close to the same feeling...


----------



## sheldaze

jk-47 said:


> I'm not trying to be condescending, but I assume you haven't listened to vinyl... but so far for me, the Gumby has come very close to the same feeling...


 
 Yes. I have a turntable and vinyl.
  
 Perhaps I posted in one of the other threads about my multiple copies of Dark Side of the Moon, including one on vinyl. I use the vinyl as the last version because it is simply the best option, when I have people by who are interested in listening.
  
 I will get to A-B-C this coming weekend the original Gungnir against the Multibit and Yggy. I may or may not share my experiences from the event though because my personal focus at the meet is not comparing DAC options. If you need to know, my personal journey is more comparison between dynamic and planar drivers, which is quite off topic from this thread. Point being, I'll have to see how similarly we can setup our systems, but I have doubts we'll truly be able to A-B-C. And it's not my focus - sorry.
  
 Probably poor timing, because I wasn't posting to answer your question. I was simply sharing a point.


----------



## JK-47

sheldaze said:


> Yes. I have a turntable and vinyl.
> 
> Perhaps I posted in one of the other threads about my multiple copies of Dark Side of the Moon, including one on vinyl. I use the vinyl as the last version because it is simply the best option, when I have people by who are interested in listening.
> 
> ...


 

 Then, the sound should be familiar...


----------



## bflat

okay 24 hrs of warm up and here is what I have to add. Common assessment as others - higher resolution and detail with no added sibilance. Just an overall cleaner sound and yes I do hear a some loss of warmth in the mid to lower mids on down. But bass is tightened up and drums sound more accurate to me. I would agree that GMB is closer to neutral now.
  
 What I find most noticeable is how the GMB scales with source. Redbook sound is improved overall, but my 24/96 and up sources really shine on the GMB. I thought Jazz at the Pawnshop was good before, but WOW, GMB is so much richer, detailed, spacious, and soooo clean and smooth. Rush "Time Stand Still", Geddy Lee and Aimee Mann's voices are so clearly separate, they were sort of blended together before. Eagles "Hotel California", best I've heard out of my system so far, can't say this enough, but such wonderful detail and clarity. Steven Wilson "Luminol", just incredible, this time just marveling at the bass line detail.
  
 Speaking of Steven Wilson, the redbook tracks that have good mastering also scale really well with GMB. I don't have any poorly mastered albums but lots of average ones and good thing is I don't think GMB penalizes the sound for so-so mastering. It just rewards you more for good masters and higher resolution files. Currently listening to modern remastered Pink Floyd Animals and Dark Side of the Moon redbook and just a whole new level of sound.
  
 Back to the loss of warmth. I may have to do some more tube rolling on my WA7TP, but not sure I miss it either. One last thing - before I was using Audirvana's up sampling iZotrope processing and I have disabled this for the GMB as recommended by Schitt.


----------



## Mediahound

bflat said:


> okay 24 hrs of warm up and here is what I have to add. Common assessment as others - higher resolution and detail with no added sibilance. Just an overall cleaner sound and yes I do hear a some loss of warmth in the mid to lower mids on down. But bass is tightened up and drums sound more accurate to me. I would agree that GMB is closer to neutral now.
> 
> What I find most noticeable is how the GMB scales with source. Redbook sound is improved overall, but my 24/96 and up sources really shine on the GMB. I thought Jazz at the Pawnshop was good before, but WOW, GMB is so much richer, detailed, spacious, and soooo clean and smooth. Rush "Time Stand Still", Geddy Lee and Aimee Mann's voices are so clearly separate, they were sort of blended together before. Eagles "Hotel California", best I've heard out of my system so far, can't say this enough, but such wonderful detail and clarity. Steven Wilson "Luminol", just incredible, this time just marveling at the bass line detail.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It will get warmer too over time, without losing the details. At least that has been my observation so far.


----------



## seb7

olias of sunhillow said:


> Multibit Gungnir has landed. After an hour or so of warm up, I already prefer it to my Bryston BDA-2. More air, more detail, firmer bass and basically more enjoyable. Very curious to see what it sounds like after a few days.
> 
> MacBook Pro > USB > GMB > Ragnarok > LCD-X


 
  
 I have the Bryston and Rag also, so I'm really looking forward to comparisons with GMB as you get more hours on it.


----------



## reddog

I have burned in the GMB for about 75 hours now and the sound signature has become more detailed and revealing. However the GMB has lost some of its tube like quality. The sound is still sweet, its just lost its tube like lushness, but the detail and resolve has increased some. I am starting to miss the Yggdrasil and will hook up my Ragnarock to it soon. I can imagine what the GMB must sound with good tubes through the Mjolnir 2. If I did not have a LC coming, I would order the Mjolnir 2 immediately and bask in the balanced power of the Mjolnir 2.


----------



## porridgecup

reddog said:


> I have burned in the GMB for about 75 hours now and the sound signature has become more detailed and revealing. However the GMB has lost some of its tube like quality. The sound is still sweet, its just lost its tube like lushness, but the detail and resolve has increased some. I am starting to miss the Yggdrasil and will hook up my Ragnarock to it soon. I can imagine what the GMB must sound with good tubes through the Mjolnir 2. If I did not have a LC coming, I would order the Mjolnir 2 immediately and bask in the balanced power of the Mjolnir 2.


 
  
 So would you say the GMB is slightly more bright than the original Gungnir, then?
  
 Also, has anyone tried the GMB with either of these:
  
 Bryston BHA-1
 LCD-2.2


----------



## reddog

porridgecup said:


> So would you say the GMB is slightly more bright than the original Gungnir, then?
> 
> Also, has anyone tried the GMB with either of these:
> 
> ...



I have never listened to the original Gungnir, so I do not find the treble to be bright. I feel the micro detail comes from the 4 dac chips, found within the GMB. The treble is very nice on the GMB but not bright at all. I feel the midds become a bit less smooth, but at the same time, they become more revealing and transparent. Overall the sound signature becomes less musica and more detailed, textured and transparent.


----------



## Mediahound

Yeah, I wouldn't call it bright. I've definitely heard brighter DACs. I'd call it accurate. 
 
It's more detailed/revealing than bright. Bright to me means male vocals would sound thin and overly breathy. This is not the case with the Gungnir 2. Vocals sound very smooth. 
 
Yet I'm hearing Maracas and triangles in some songs that I never knew where there before. I'm also hearing fingers strumming over guitar strings when before I would just hear the note being played. Details galore.  
 
Certainly if you were to hold back these details, one would probably then get an impression of an overall darker signature, but you'd then not hear these details.


----------



## JK-47

12hrs in with the Gumby and MJ2, listening with LCD 2.2F's and everything is niiiiiice....
  
 The first thing I noticed was the increased texture and smoothness of the treble. Now that detail is gradually working it's way down into the mids, on both the MJ2 and the Elekit TU-8200DX... 
  
 Only one word to describe the sound...Magnificent !!!


----------



## lukeap69

reddog said:


> I have burned in the GMB for about 75 hours now and the sound signature has become more detailed and revealing. However the GMB has lost some of its tube like quality. The sound is still sweet, its just lost its tube like lushness, but the detail and resolve has increased some. I am starting to miss the Yggdrasil and will hook up my Ragnarock to it soon. I can imagine what the GMB must sound with good tubes through the Mjolnir 2. If I did not have a LC coming, I would order the Mjolnir 2 immediately and bask in the balanced power of the Mjolnir 2.




Cancel the LC and buy the M2?


----------



## Dalgas

dmhenley said:


> *On to the important stuff...*
> Approximately 100 hours in, about half of those with music playing. Still early. I've left it powered on the entire time.
> Even with the humble (but excellent!) ALO Pan Am driving analytical headphones I am having new experiences with records I've loved for decades.
> 
> ...


 
 Your description simply nails my experience with the *delta-sigma *Gungnir. Only had it for a month (has 40 hours on it) and I am not ready to go multibit. Reading the other posts on loss of warmth/lushness (going from DS to Multibit) - I am far from convinced that the upgrade is worth the extra costs. But the night is still young -  as they say


----------



## Dalgas

tubemanrq said:


> I heard the DISTINCT difference between the DS-Gungnir (which had probably 700 + hours on it)  and the new multibit (brand-new right out of the box)  on the very first note to the very first song I played through it. That was actually Jean Michelle Jarr and it was Oxygene 7 part 1. The first note had a much more palpable and extended treble that was much more cohesive and started from back behind the plane of the speakers, to decaying back behind the listening position to the far left. The DS Gungnir did NOT do that. I WAS HOOKED! So yes, you SHOULD be able to hear a difference right away.


 
 That is interesting - but would you (be able to - given your setup is not fully upgraded) say that the GMB sounds "less warm" than the DS-Gungnir?


----------



## TubemanRQ

dalgas said:


> Your description simply nails my experience with the *delta-sigma *Gungnir. Only had it for a month (has 40 hours on it) and I am not ready to go multibit. Reading the other posts on loss of warmth/lushness (going from DS to Multibit) - I am far from convinced that the upgrade is worth the extra costs. But the night is still young -  as they say


 
 Hi Dalgas,
  
      When I referred to the Gungnir multibit sounding less warm after about the 75 hour mark or so, it wasn't in relation to the D/S Gungnir. It was in relation to how the multibit upgrade sounds "right out of the box" compared to what it was sounding like after the 75 hour mark. I would definitely say the multibit sounds more lush overall compared to the D/S Gungnir, yet NOT sacrificing detail and inner nuance. The D/S Gungnir is actually a lot harder sounding in the treble and nowhere near being as fleshed out or natural as the multibit. In my system, compared to the D/S Gungnir DAC, things are just much more relaxed in the treble and more open, which portrays a more natural and convincing musical portrait. The D/S Gungnir DAC would actually hurt my ears at times the way it portrayed high frequency energy and detail. The highs sound more "forced" on the D/S Gungnir, almost like it's trying to be detailed, yet misses the mark compared to the multibit upgrade which conveys MORE detail while retaining a relaxed presentation that does not sacrifice transparency or neutrality. Yeah, it's a $500 upgrade, but to me and what I'm hearing, it is HUGE value in terms of what you get for that $500.
  
 -TRQ
  
 P.S. What will be interesting is hearing the difference in the other frequency bands from 900Hz to 544Hz, from 544Hz to 100Hz,  100Hz to 40Hz, and 40Hz to 20HZ.


----------



## reddog

lukeap69 said:


> Cancel the LC and buy the M2?



Lol I am a audophile fool, and one can never have enough amps lol. But I will wait till later this year, to throttle my wallet.


----------



## Dalgas

Hi TRQ!
  
 Thanks for clarifying things. I can recognize your description of the treble of the DS-gungnir. Sometimes it just falls short of the target (due to lack of resolution) and this is consistent with other users (Purrin and his Ninjas) comments. I am sure you now the tread:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-delta-sigma-kinda-sucks-just-to-get-you-to-think-about-stuff
  
 -if not, it is highly recommendable reading


----------



## TubemanRQ

To further clarify, it's not to say the D/S Gungnir is NOT warm. It is a GREAT DAC! But compared to the multibit upgrade....once you've heard it, you don't want to go back!
  
 -TRQ


----------



## sheldaze

jk-47 said:


> Then, the sound should be familiar...


 
 No,
  
 Perhaps I have a low-end turntable, and this is why I have not heard the same soundstage from it? It did not present to me the same three-dimensional quality that I'm hearing from the Gungnir. To my ears the digital has always had the attempt at depth and space, only it has always been "uncomfortable". So to my ears, the sound I am hearing from the Gungnir with Multibit is the same digital sound-stage I have heard in past, but now all the sonic clues are "locked" in. I don't have to "filter" the digital noise in my head. It's been pre-filtered for me. So it sounds like the analog, only on a bigger digital stage.


----------



## Dalgas

tubemanrq said:


> To further clarify, it's not to say the D/S Gungnir is NOT warm. It is a GREAT DAC! But compared to the multibit upgrade....once you've heard it, you don't want to go back!
> 
> -TRQ


 
 True! I really really enjoy my DS Gungnir. So I am ok with the fact that the multibit has not landed i europe yet.


----------



## MattTCG

From my experience after 150 hours of burn in and having lived with the D/S Gungnir for the past year, there is no question that the GMB is worth the cost of admission. The GMB offers a new level of resolution that results in instruments and voices having a more natural and believable tonality...which for me, equals a more enjoyable experience listening to music. Plus I have a nice little sticker on the back that D/S owners don't have. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Now, the question becomes if one has the means is the upgrade from GMB to yggy justifiable? Reddog?


----------



## TubemanRQ

matttcg said:


> From my experience after 150 hours of burn in and having lived with the D/S Gungnir for the past year, there is no question that the GMB is worth the cost of admission. The GMB offers a new level of resolution that results in instruments and voices having a more natural and believable tonality...which for me, equals a more enjoyable experience listening to music. Plus I have a nice little sticker on the back that D/S owners don't have.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That would definitely be THE question to ask!  ??


----------



## Youth

dalgas said:


> True! I really really enjoy my DS Gungnir. *So I am ok with the fact that the multibit has not landed i europe yet.*


 
  
 I'm not


----------



## schneller

Any comparisons to the 2Qute yet?


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> From my experience after 150 hours of burn in and having lived with the D/S Gungnir for the past year, there is no question that the GMB is worth the cost of admission. The GMB offers a new level of resolution that results in instruments and voices having a more natural and believable tonality...which for me, equals a more enjoyable experience listening to music. Plus I have a nice little sticker on the back that D/S owners don't have.
> 
> 
> Now, the question becomes if one has the means is the upgrade from GMB to yggy justifiable? Reddog?


If one has the money and wants a very detailed, natural sounding dac, that is very musical too, then go for the Yggdrasil. However. The Gumby presents great value, for the money. The gumby sounds pretty detailed and transparent but not as musical sounding as the Yggy. If I was on a budget, I would not hesitate to get the GMB. However if you can afford a dac that is so musical and yet so bloody detailed and faithful to the music go for the Yggy.


----------



## Youth

Does Audio-GD have any R2R DACs that can compete arround the same level as the GMB?


----------



## sypderman88

Hi,
  
  Just wonder GMB is a big improvement over Audio GD DAC 19 10th Annivesarry ?


----------



## TubemanRQ

reddog said:


> If one has the money and wants a very detailed, natural sounding dac, that is very musical too, then go for the Yggdrasil. However. The Gumby presents great value, for the money. The gumby sounds pretty detailed and transparent but not as musical sounding as the Yggy. If I was on a budget, I would not hesitate to get the GMB. However if you can afford a dac that is so musical and yet so bloody detailed and faithful to the music go for the Yggy.


 
 Don't tell that to my wallet!! LOL! I'd have to get FOUR of 'em to complement my all active 2-channel system.


----------



## conquerator2

youth said:


> Does Audio-GD have any R2R DACs that can compete arround the same level as the GMB?


 
 Audio-gd DAC19.


----------



## lukeap69

sypderman88 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just wonder GMB is a big improvement over Audio GD DAC 19 10th Annivesarry ?


 
@Stillhart
  
 Somebody is looking for you...


----------



## Stillhart

lukeap69 said:


> Cancel the LC and buy the M2?



I have heard both amps with the Gumby and I haven't ordered an M2. Just saying...



sypderman88 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just wonder GMB is a big improvement over Audio GD DAC 19 10th Annivesarry ?



Sonically, no, its not. Sonically they're very similar with subtle "flavor" differences. My writeup is incoming tonight hopefully.


----------



## lukeap69

stillhart said:


> My writeup is incoming tonight hopefully.


----------



## MattTCG

I kind of nice to see this type of excitement for DAC technology. It was always going to be how to get to the next level sonically. The yggy is certainly on my radar, but it would be a big stretch get there financially plus the wait is pretty substantial I believe. 
  
 I love what I'm hearing from the GMB. It would be very difficult for me to give it up now that it's burned in and giving this level of aural bliss.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> I kind of nice to see this type of excitement for DAC technology. It was always going to be how to get to the next level sonically. The yggy is certainly on my radar, but it would be a big stretch get there financially plus the wait is pretty substantial I believe.
> 
> I love what I'm hearing from the GMB. It would be very difficult for me to give it up now that it's burned in and giving this level of aural bliss.



+1 Well said sir.


----------



## TON13

My GMB has landed in town.  Can't wait to get it home and try it out.  Only piece missing is the LC (for now).  Thanks for all the opinions on the GMB so far.  I'm ready to make my own.


----------



## Youth

stillhart said:


> I have heard both amps with the Gumby and I haven't ordered an M2. Just saying...
> Sonically, no, its not. Sonically they're very similar with subtle "flavor" differences. My writeup is incoming tonight hopefully.


 
  
 Where will this writeup be posted? I'm very curious since my next DAC is probably gonna be either GMB or Audio GD DAC 19 10th Annivesarry. Does the DAC 19 also work with USB?


----------



## Stillhart

youth said:


> Where will this writeup be posted? I'm very curious since my next DAC is probably gonna be either GMB or Audio GD DAC 19 10th Annivesarry. Does the DAC 19 also work with USB?


 
  
 I was going to do a big "shootout" kind of writeup of the two but decided against that format.  It kinda sucks because there's always a winner and loser of a shootout and both of these are fantastic DAC's.  So instead I'm going to write up two full reviews and mention some comparisons in each review.
  
 Until then, I'll probably list out some bullet points on pros and cons for folks who are champing at the bit.  Not sure where yet, maybe in the LC DAC thread since that seems like a nice impartial location.  :-D


----------



## lukeap69

stillhart said:


> I was going to do a big "shootout" kind of writeup of the two but decided against that format.  It kinda sucks because there's always a winner and loser of a shootout and both of these are fantastic DAC's.  So instead I'm going to write up two full reviews and mention some comparisons in each review.
> 
> Until then, I'll probably list out some bullet points on pros and cons for folks who are champing at the bit.  Not sure where yet, maybe in the LC DAC thread since that seems like a nice impartial location.  :-D




Boo! I vote for a shootout.


----------



## Stillhart

Here's something fun for the GMB owners out there:  if you have a transport besides USB, try it out.  I'm pretty sure it sounds better through coax.  But I'm curious what you all think.
  
 I tested mine with the Audio-GD DI-2014 digital interface.  It's what I use to drive my vintage DAC's that have no USB ports.


----------



## Youth

stillhart said:


> I was going to do a big "shootout" kind of writeup of the two but decided against that format.  It kinda sucks because there's always a winner and loser of a shootout and both of these are fantastic DAC's.  So instead I'm going to write up two full reviews and mention some comparisons in each review.
> 
> Until then, I'll probably list out some bullet points on pros and cons for folks who are champing at the bit.  Not sure where yet, maybe in the LC DAC thread since that seems like a nice impartial location.  :-D


 
  
 Can you link me to the LC DAC thread? I can't seem to find it.
  
 Also, how much does the DAC 19 cost? I looked on their website but couldn't find any prices.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ $850...


----------



## Youth

matttcg said:


> ^^ $850...


 
  
 Thanks. I just doublechecked, and see now where I missed the price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 This thing is alot cheaper than GMB. Can't wait for the comparison now.


----------



## AudioBear

youth said:


> Can you link me to the LC DAC thread? I can't seem to find it.
> 
> Also, how much does the DAC 19 cost? I looked on their website but couldn't find any prices.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/forum/newestpost/763905
  Finding a DAC for the Cavalli Liquid Carbon Only 4 Months to Go
  
 I have one on order and it's slightly delayed but maybe in Sept I can try it with my Gumby


----------



## leafs

Hi all,
  
 Just to do a brief share of my impressions of Gungnir Multibit after 32 hours. (Gungnir Multibit > Soloist > LCD2 r2). I feel that it started out thin when I hear it shortly after plug in. I simply left it to burn in after that. I stick to several songs (all flac) and revisit the same songs throughout the burn-in. It helps me to pick out the differences. My impression appears similar to many impressions that other folks have already shared. Highly detailed, revealing, easy to hear tiny details in the music, smooth mids, bass is textured.
  
 Note that I have been using odac for nearly 3 years, and only start to look out for a new dac early this year. I must say that after switching to Gungnir Multibit, the overall differences is very apparent to me. Hidden musical information that I didn't hear before, suddenly starts popping out. The soundstage becomes big as I heard and in depth as well. Several songs that I enjoy and have been repeating now are "Spanish Harlem" by Rebecca Pidgeon, "Somethin' Else" by Cannonball Adderley, Marvin Gaye's What's Going On album, Distance, Light & Sky album, "Skyfall", "Set Fire to the Rain" and "I Can't Make You Love Me" by Adele, "Riverside" by Agnes Obel, "Aerial Boundaries" and "Ritual Dance" by Michael Hedges, Yosi Horikawa's Vapor album, Sophie Zelmani album, "Time" and "Us and Them" by Pink Floyd, "Dance With My Father" by Luther Vandross, Joe Hisaishi album.. and many many more. 
  
 I didn't hear Yggy before, but overall I find Gungnir Multibit is clean, smooth, and musical. I will continue to burn-in Gungnir Multibit and observe. Hopefully by early next week, I can start to burn-in my ETHER and get drown in music. I'm tempting to get Mojo 2 despite having preordered a LC.


----------



## Stillhart

Might I suggest we take talk of the DAC-19 to the DAC-19 thread?  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/759872/new-audio-gd-dac-19-10th-anniversary-edition


----------



## TubemanRQ

Waiting my turn for my next two Gungnir multibit upgrades..........waiting.................................................................waiting........................................................waiting..
  
 Meanwhile, the Gungnir multibit on my tweeters is sounding ohhhh soo sweeeett!! Very 3-dimensional and enveloping! It is starting to sound warmer and lusher again, yet more detailed and nuanced without sacrificing transparency.
  
 -TRQ
  
 P.S. I have always used the Gungnirs via coax in. My PC transport is USB out to 3 WYRDs in series, then to the Peachtree 24/192  USB/SPDIF converter. I am in the works of building new digital cables that will have RCA 75-ohm connectors on one end, and the Gungnir end 75-ohm BNC. I think this will sound even better than the coax RCA input on the Gungnirs.


----------



## Hardwired

stillhart said:


> Here's something fun for the GMB owners out there:  if you have a transport besides USB, try it out.  I'm pretty sure it sounds better through coax.  But I'm curious what you all think.
> 
> I tested mine with the Audio-GD DI-2014 digital interface.  It's what I use to drive my vintage DAC's that have no USB ports.


 
  
 As a "because I can" I ran a coax cable out of my DX90 into the GMB and my eyebrows went up at the quality of the sound. I'm not sure it was better than the USB, but it was certainly good enough for me to take notice. Now I'm wondering about the optical quality.


----------



## sheldaze

stillhart said:


> Here's something fun for the GMB owners out there:  if you have a transport besides USB, try it out.  I'm pretty sure it sounds better through coax.  But I'm curious what you all think.
> 
> I tested mine with the Audio-GD DI-2014 digital interface.  It's what I use to drive my vintage DAC's that have no USB ports.


 
 I have to stop the music to switch from straight USB to my Peachtree X1, which is connected to both COAX and Optical ports of the GMB. The difference (if any) between the three input options is very subtle (and likely attributed to different cables and the X1). I like the sound of all three 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Perhaps if I listen to the COAX for a while, I might note a difference when switching back to the USB?


----------



## Mediahound

stillhart said:


> Might I suggest we take talk of the DAC-19 to the DAC-19 thread?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/759872/new-audio-gd-dac-19-10th-anniversary-edition


 

 Yeah really. I could care less about some made in China DAC. I'm hear to talk about Schiit USA made goodness.


----------



## TubemanRQ

sheldaze said:


> I have to stop the music to switch from straight USB to my Peachtree X1, which is connected to both COAX and Optical ports of the GMB. The difference (if any) between the three input options is very subtle (and likely attributed to different cables and the X1). I like the sound of all three
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have the Peachtree X1 also. GREAT piece of gear isn't it!!! I have only listened to the Gungnirs downstream from this via coax RCA. I couldn't really tell if USB or TOSLINK, or BNC were better. I think the new digital cables I'm building with true 75-Ohm RCA connectors on one end, and the Gungnir ends having true 75-Ohm BNC connectors will sound best.
 -TRQ


----------



## Stillhart

mediahound said:


> Yeah really. I could care less about some made in China DAC. I'm hear to talk about Schiit USA made goodness.


 
  
 Actually, it was more just about keeping the conversation on track.  I want to be clear that I don't share your xenophobic opinion.


----------



## Mediahound

stillhart said:


> Actually, it was more just about keeping the conversation on track.  I want to be clear that I don't share your xenophobic opinion.


 
  
 Liking Schiit or Audeze (or any other US based manufacturer) is not being xenophobic. I resent that comment. 
  
 Look up the word "Xenophobic" in a dictionary. It means one has a fear of people from other countries. Choose your words wisely lest you accuse someone of being something they are not.  
  
 Preferring US-made stuff does not mean you are xenophobic. Geez.


----------



## joe

Guys, let's get back to the Gungnir.


----------



## TubemanRQ

All I can say is, if you aren't listening to Gungnir via balanced out, you "aint" seen nothin' yet!!! 
  
 OK, so background: A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away......I had some old Transparent Audio Ultra 2 meter single-ended interconnects. I still used them on the open-baffle woofers I have going from 100Hz to 40Hz. Well, I had to use balanced XLR to RCA adapters in order to use the Transparent Audio Ultra interconnects connecting from Gungnir to one of the Crown K2 amplifiers I have. Well, I "thought" Transparent cabling was always "really good" at doing bass, so I have had them like that for YEARS!!! Well, on a whim, I was thinking about this, and the balanced signal has the hot and inverted signal, and the ground. Well converting to singled-ended, even though I was using the balanced output of the Gungnir, I was essentially throwing away half the signal.
  
 Well folks, what I thought was good bass, became THUNDEROUS bass!!!! My woofer boxes and the Crown K2 LOVE the true balanced feed they are getting now, and I can hear and FEEL it!!! The  balanced cables are 30AWG silver-plated DIY cables I made a few years ago. Probably cost me about $20 to make and in this instance they TROUNCE the expensive Transparent Audio single-ended cables I was using. The Gungnir has TREMENDOUS bass! Phenomenal!!!
  
 I'm like a kid who just got a new toy!!!!  Silly me!! The rest of my system is balanced, utilizing balanced cables, EXCEPT for the small chip amp feeding my planar magnetics panels which go from 544Hz to 900Hz.
  
 Lovin' my Gungnirs!!!
  
 -TRQ


----------



## Mediahound

tubemanrq said:


> All I can say is, if you aren't listening to Gungnir via balanced out, you "aint" seen nothin' yet!!!
> 
> OK, so background: A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away......I had some old Transparent Audio Ultra 2 meter single-ended interconnects. I still used them on the open-baffle woofers I have going from 100Hz to 40Hz. Well, I had to use balanced XLR to RCA adapters in order to use the Transparent Audio Ultra interconnects connecting from Gungnir to one of the Crown K2 amplifiers I have. Well, I "thought" Transparent cabling was always "really good" at doing bass, so I have had them like that for YEARS!!! Well, on a whim, I was thinking about this, and the balanced signal has the hot and inverted signal, and the ground. Well converting to singled-ended, even though I was using the balanced output of the Gungnir, I was essentially throwing away half the signal.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, when running balanced, the cabling is not as important, IMO. You get built in common mode interference rejection already. You can even run much longer distances with say a balanced extension cable before noting any degradation of audio quality.


----------



## TubemanRQ

I can't stop listening!!  I gotta go to bed for work!!  My multibit Gungnir is becoming more liquid, lush , 3-dimensional and tube-like AGAIN, yet detailed and transparent. I'm at about 225 hours of burn-in.  WOW WOW WOW!
  
 -TRQ


----------



## neogeosnk

To burn in the multibit gungnir dac does it need to be outputting to a source or can it sit idle but on?  Thanks!


----------



## Stillhart

neogeosnk said:


> To burn in the multibit gungnir dac does it need to be outputting to a source or can it sit idle but on?  Thanks!


 
  
 Warm up should have much more noticeable effect than burn-in.  Most people don't have the ears or the system that Tubeman does.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

tubemanrq said:


> Waiting my turn for my next two Gungnir multibit upgrades..........waiting.................................................................waiting........................................................waiting..
> 
> Meanwhile, the Gungnir multibit on my tweeters is sounding ohhhh soo sweeeett!! Very 3-dimensional and enveloping! It is starting to sound warmer and lusher again, yet more detailed and nuanced without sacrificing transparency.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm I bit surprised by your description of the DAC starting off "tubey", then getting less so, then more so again.  Is that what you're experiencing?


----------



## JK-47

Did a quick A/B of the USB and Coax input (Fiio X3II), and I couldn't tell a difference. The Fiio isn't the best source to test coax though, I'm sure.
  
 A little over 24hrs on the Gumby so far and the clarity continues to trickle down from the hi frequencys to the mids, and slowly into the upper bass...


----------



## TubemanRQ

neogeosnk said:


> To burn in the multibit gungnir dac does it need to be outputting to a source or can it sit idle but on?  Thanks!


 
  
 Hi Neo,
     I run the XLO/Reference Recordings test/Burn-in CD  Burn-in track with the amps off.


buttuglyjeff said:


> I'm I bit surprised by your description of the DAC starting off "tubey", then getting less so, then more so again.  Is that what you're experiencing?


 
 Hi BUJ,
  
      Well, when I say tubey, maybe I should say enveloping and liquid-sounding. It reminds me of the Manley Reference 350 monoblock tube amps I used to have in the 90's. They were HUMONGOUS soundstage beasts that were very alive and powerful sounding. THAT'S what I'm hearing with the Gungnir multibit WITHOUT the tube amps. It also seems to be fleshing out and opening up more, while also becoming more transparent and revealing.


----------



## Mediahound

> Originally Posted by *TubemanRQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I am in the works of building new digital cables that will have RCA 75-ohm connectors on one end, and the Gungnir end 75-ohm BNC. I think this will sound even better than the coax RCA input on the Gungnirs.


 
  
 I doubt that will make any difference. It's just a connector. The only benefit of BNC is that it's a locking connector so a bit more secure from getting pulled loose.


----------



## jfoxvol

mediahound said:


> I doubt that will make any difference. It's just a connector. The only benefit of BNC is that it's a locking connector so a bit more secure from getting pulled loose.


 
 I have to disagree.  The BNC maintains the 75 Ohm impedance all the way through the connector.  An RCA cable does not and the slight impedance mismatch can cause line reflections.  Some Canare RCA connectors come close but they're big and bulky and can cause strain relief issues on your gear.  All things being equal, a BNC connected cable will be able to transmit at a higher bandwidth than an RCA connected.  For most practical purposes, they are both probably ok.  However, always go with BNC if you have the chance.  You will be much less likely to have data transmission issues with higher bandwidth signals (i.e. high bitrate/sample rate flacs)


----------



## Mediahound

jfoxvol said:


> I have to disagree.  The BNC maintains the 75 Ohm impedance all the way through the connector.  An RCA cable does not and the slight impedance mismatch can cause line reflections.  Some Canare RCA connectors come close but they're big and bulky and can cause strain relief issues on your gear.  All things being equal, a BNC connected cable will be able to transmit at a higher bandwidth than an RCA connected.  For most practical purposes, they are both probably ok.  However, always go with BNC if you have the chance.  You will be much less likely to have data transmission issues with higher bandwidth signals (i.e. high bitrate/sample rate flacs)


 

 We're talking digital here. Show me one case where a digital signal didn't work with RCA but did with BNC.


----------



## jfoxvol

mediahound said:


> We're talking digital here. Show me one case where a digital signal didn't work with RCA but did with BNC.


 
 Yes, I know.  I saw loads of times in electrical engineering school.  We learned all about characteristic impedance and transmission lines so yes.  There is a difference in how the signal propagates through the connector.  If there is enough distortion at high enough bandwidth, there is a possibility that a bit or more may not decode properly because of line reflections


----------



## Mediahound

jfoxvol said:


> Yes, I know.  I saw loads of times in electrical engineering school.  We learned all about characteristic impedance and transmission lines so yes.  There is a difference in how the signal propagates through the connector.  If there is enough distortion at high enough bandwidth, there is a possibility that a bit or more may not decode properly because of line reflections


 

 I still doubt it will make a any difference. He posted that he hopes it will sound better, I'm doubtful of that. Especially since he's still using RCA on the other end.


----------



## jfoxvol

mediahound said:


> I still doubt it will make a any difference. He posted that he hopes it will sound better, I'm doubtful of that.


 
 Like I said in my original post, for most practical purposes it will be fine either way.  It's possible that there will be a sound difference if previously distortion was causing decoding errors.  If you can go BNC, though, always do and you're less likely to have issues.


----------



## Mediahound

> If you can go BNC, though, always do and you're less likely to have issues.


 
 Even if he's still using RCA on the other end of the cable? I would have to disagree that it will actually do anything, other than secure the BNC end a bit better.


----------



## jfoxvol

mediahound said:


> Even if he's still using RCA on the other end of the cable? I would have to disagree that it will actually do anything, other than secure the BNC end a bit better.


 
 Well, one set of reflections is better than two.  So, yeah.  That's half the distortion from impedance mismatches.


----------



## jlangholzj

Just out of curiosity, for the ney-sayers......anyone ever seen an oscilloscope with RCA connectors?
  
  
 ....they might be onto something.


----------



## Mediahound

jfoxvol said:


> Well, one set of reflections is better than two.  So, yeah.  That's half the distortion from impedance mismatches.


 

 Not to go off topic in this thread but in that case you'd have worse impedance mismatches by having different connectors on either end of the cable. Isn't it better to have the same impedence on each end of the cable for a sync signal?


----------



## jfoxvol

mediahound said:


> Not to go off topic in this thread but in that case you'd have worse impedance mismatches by having different connectors on either end of the cable. Isn't it better to have the same impedence on each end of the cable for a sync signal?


 
 The BNC connector maintains the 75ohm impedance of the cable.  RCA connectors, by design, don't.  Some can get close.  The less impedance variation the better.  The more BNC the merrier.  As much can be 75 as possible.


----------



## jfoxvol

I don't want to derail this thread any more.  So, if you have any other technical questions, please feel free to PM me.  I'd be happy to discuss.


----------



## Mediahound

Regarding burn-in/break-in, it would seem to me a few over night power downs would be good to help exersize all the circuitry in terms of cooling down and getting back up to temp. when the DAC is new. Am I wrong?


----------



## bflat

mediahound said:


> Regarding burn-in/break-in, it would seem to me a few over night power downs would be good to help exersize all the circuitry in terms of cooling down and getting back up to temp. when the DAC is new. Am I wrong?


 

 LOL, I think it's easier taking care of a polar bear cub in Hawaii than using GMB!


----------



## reddog

I rehooked up my Ragnarock to my Yggdrasil and was struck dumb by the dqc of god. I listened to Rebecca Page's "Spanish Harlem" and. The level of detail revealed by the yggy/ rag combo never fails to impress me Her voice, the instruments and the holographic soundstage are simply magical. Next I listened to Kate Bush Babuskka and that track never sounded so nice Kate Bush is a song bird, her notes never sound fatiguing or overly bright, but just right to my ears. I truly like my Gumby but the yggy is top of its game.


----------



## leafs

reddog said:


> I rehooked up my Ragnarock to my Yggdrasil and was struck dumb by the dqc of god. I listened to Rebecca Page's "Spanish Harlem" and. The level of detail revealed by the yggy/ rag combo never fails to impress me Her voice, the instruments and the holographic soundstage are simply magical. Next I listened to Kate Bush Babuskka and that track never sounded so nice Kate Bush is a song bird, her notes never sound fatiguing or overly bright, but just right to my ears. I truly like my Gumby but the yggy is top of its game.


 

 I love "Spanish Harlem" via my Gungnir Multibit too. The soundstage depth is WOW. I guess Yggy must be really superb based on your comment. Cheers


----------



## pldelisle

Hi all.

I'm currently looking for a new pair of headphones. sennheiser momentum are just not enough to show all the potential of my Gungnir and Asgard 2.

I want planar magnetic headphone. I'm currently hesitating between the Audeze LCD-2 (because LCD-3 are too pricey) and HE-560.

Some say the Gungnir is on the warm side. I like details in sound and the "wow" effect when I've never heard something in the soundstage. I simply want the best headphone for 1000$ for my rig. But as I read reviews of the LCD-2, it seems to be on the warm side too. Would the kit be too warm ? I like treble but not in excess like the Beyer 990. I want to be able to listen for long period of time (programming session can last quite long with cafeine !). 

Mr Speaker Alpha are not impressing me. I read on it and it's sure good headphones but they are closed back and lack in high frequencies. I like the "tishhh" in cymbals, you know... Hard to say since english is not my first language, but I like de detail in higher frequencies.

So, which headphones is the best mix with Gungnir and Asgard 2?

Thanks !


----------



## reddog

pldelisle said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I'm currently looking for a new pair of headphones. sennheiser momentum are just not enough to show all the potential of my Gungnir and Asgard 2.
> 
> ...



I would try to audition a set of he-560's, and a set of Audeze LCD-2, and choose whatever can pleased you more.


----------



## Dalgas

reddog said:


> I rehooked up my Ragnarock to my Yggdrasil and was struck dumb by the dqc of god. I listened to Rebecca Page's "Spanish Harlem" and. The level of detail revealed by the yggy/ rag combo never fails to impress me Her voice, the instruments and the holographic soundstage are simply magical. Next I listened to Kate Bush Babuskka and that track never sounded so nice Kate Bush is a song bird, her notes never sound fatiguing or overly bright, but just right to my ears. I truly like my Gumby but the yggy is top of its game.


 
 Rebecca Page = Rebecca Pidgeon?


----------



## LarsP

pldelisle said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I'm currently looking for a new pair of headphones. sennheiser momentum are just not enough to show all the potential of my Gungnir and Asgard 2.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I really like my LCD-2's, but I'm probably going to sell them in the future as I've grown tired of the fact they feel like a medieval torture device after a couple of hours. Just a heads up since you are going to use them while working.


----------



## pldelisle

reddog said:


> I would try to audition a set of he-560's, and a set of Audeze LCD-2, and choose whatever can pleased you more.




In best of worlds, yes, this would be the ideal thing to do, but in Montreal you can't find a Hifiman dealer, while there is one Audeze. And ordering both and return one is not really an option.


----------



## Amictus

reddog said:


> I would try to audition a set of he-560's, and a set of Audeze LCD-2, and choose whatever can pleased you more.




It might be worth listening to a pair of Grado PS500e. My best cans are Sennheiser HD800 with a Cardas Clear cable, but I often use the Grados, which are easier to drive, with pleasure (although mine are the the earlier PS500). If you can audition them, you might find them to your taste... Good luck!


----------



## jrflanne

I'm running a Gungnir to Valhalla2 into LCD-2. Extremely smooth sounding with no touch of that "digital sound" but the amp could use some more umph. I just ordered a Lyr2 yesterday, so that should be solved. But the Gungnir is sweet with the Lcd-2's.


----------



## Mediahound

larsp said:


> I really like my LCD-2's, but I'm probably going to sell them in the future as I've grown tired of the fact they feel like a medieval torture device after a couple of hours. Just a heads up since you are going to use them while working.




Try the "planar pad" that someone here sells in the cables classifieds area. It makes the audeze a lot more comfortable.


----------



## LarsP

mediahound said:


> Try the "planar pad" that someone here sells in the cables classifieds area. It makes the audeze a lot more comfortable.


 
  
 Thanks for the advice. 
  
 I'm probably going the closed headphone route some time in the future anyways, but you never know.


----------



## reddog

pldelisle said:


> In best of worlds, yes, this would be the ideal thing to do, but in Montreal you can't find a Hifiman dealer, while there is one Audeze. And ordering both and return one is not really an option.



+1. I know how you feel, its hard to audition most headphones, where I live. I might have to start using the Cable Company's headphone loan program.


----------



## TON13

I have virtually no place to audition anything here in Missouri and everything I have purchased has been either researched through this site and the helpful members or several other places.  Money really isn't an issue but I don't want to buy a bunch of stuff that won't suit me. 
  
 Received my Gungnir Multibit last night and fired it up.  I only got to listen to it for an hour or so before bed and left it on all night so I'll listen more this evening.  I ran it SE last night just because it was late and didn't want to go look for my balanced cables and hook everything up.  I know most here probably don't have the same music taste as I and even mine varies but I popped in "Mike Garrigan - Live at the Evening Muse" and it was amazing.  For me, this is one of the best recorded live cd's I have.  I'm not real good with explaining everything like most here but I know what I like and this is winner.


----------



## Stillhart

ton13 said:


> I have virtually no place to audition anything here in Missouri and everything I have purchased has been either researched through this site and the helpful members or several other places.  Money really isn't an issue but I don't want to buy a bunch of stuff that won't suit me.
> 
> Received my Gungnir Multibit last night and fired it up.  I only got to listen to it for an hour or so before bed and left it on all night so I'll listen more this evening.  I ran it SE last night just because it was late and didn't want to go look for my balanced cables and hook everything up.  I know most here probably don't have the same music taste as I and even mine varies but I popped in "Mike Garrigan - Live at the Evening Muse" and it was amazing.  For me, this is one of the best recorded live cd's I have.  I'm not real good with explaining everything like most here but I know what I like and this is winner.


 
  
 If you thought it sounded good with no warm-up and SE, you're going to be blown away later...


----------



## earnmyturns

pldelisle said:


> Mr Speaker Alpha are not impressing me. I read on it and it's sure good headphones but they are closed back and lack in high frequencies. I like the "tishhh" in cymbals, you know... Hard to say since english is not my first language, but I like de detail in higher frequencies.
> 
> So, which headphones is the best mix with Gungnir and Asgard 2?


 
 Listening to Charles Lloyd's "Mirror" lossless > Bifrost Uber > Asgard 2 > Alpha Primes. Obviously, if your listening conditions allow you to use open back headphones, you should, but if not, the Alpha Primes don't lack in high frequencies for me (but then at my age, I'm probably at -50dB @ 10kHz). Anyway, I'm getting plenty of "tishhh" from Eric Harland's cymbals.


----------



## money4me247

from my personal experience, the Primes are not a bad pair of headphones especially considering the relative lack of competent closed neutral-orientated flagship options out there.
  
 However, I think nowadays there are quite a lot of open mid-tier headphones that really get you relatively close to the flagship performance. Many of the open options out there will be more revealing of that airy upper treble extension and subtle micro-detail. I would recommend getting an open pair of headphones if your listening situation allows for it


----------



## schneller

Some very positive initial comments about the MB vs. the Chord 2Qute over at ComputerAudiophile...


----------



## schneller

Is anyone using a Wyrd with the MB at the moment?
  
 For me this is the debate of the moment.
  
 Schiit Gungnir MB + Schiit Wyrd + 2x PYST USB cables + S&H = $1420 USD
  
 vs.
  
 Chord 2Qute + Chord Silver Plus USB + S&H = $1895 USD


----------



## Mediahound

schneller said:


> Is anyone using a Wyrd with the MB at the moment?
> 
> For me this is the debate of the moment.
> 
> ...


 

 Is the Chord balanced? I wouldn't even consider running single ended myself, after going balanced, I cannot go back, it's that good.


----------



## schneller

No it is not. But would it matter? My DAC will feed my NAIM SuperNait2 IS via a RCA-DIN interconnect.


----------



## JK-47

schneller said:


> Is anyone using a Wyrd with the MB at the moment?
> 
> For me this is the debate of the moment.
> 
> ...


 

 Yup, Wyrd ---> Gumby by way of the PYST USB cables. I tried the Wyrd with my TEAC-UD301 DAC, while the GMB was warming up, and it had a noticebale improvement in sound (tighter, detailed). My 5 year old laptop was the source, so the USB ports are well worn. Maybe with a newer computer the difference would be smaller, or none at all.


----------



## pldelisle

I have the Gungnir first gen with the Wyrd USB. I bought the kit in April. Consider at least a full 2 weeks to get the full potential. It seems to have a burning time or something like this with this DAC. You may hear the high frequencies getting better as the burning process goes on. At least it was my feeling. Could potentially come from my Asgard 2 being burned too.

I don't know if the Wyrd really improves anything. I don't have good enough headphones at the moment to really tell you if there is a difference. But it's always a nice add-in.



> Listening to Charles Lloyd's "Mirror" lossless > Bifrost Uber > Asgard 2 > Alpha Primes. Obviously, if your listening conditions allow you to use open back headphones, you should, but if not, the Alpha Primes don't lack in high frequencies for me (but then at my age, I'm probably at -50dB @ 10kHz). Anyway, I'm getting plenty of "tishhh" from Eric Harland's cymbals.




I already have a pair of closed HP (my Momentum). Sure my mechanical keyboard makes a lot of noise when programming, but in many review I read open headphones are simply better on multiple aspect. I'm willing to try an open design.


----------



## JK-47

pldelisle said:


> I have the Gungnir first gen with the Wyrd USB. I bought the kit in April. Consider at least a full 2 weeks to get the full potential. It seems to have a burning time or something like this with this DAC. You may hear the high frequencies getting better as the burning process goes on. At least it was my feeling. Could potentially come from my Asgard 2 being burned too.
> 
> I don't know if the Wyrd really improves anything. I don't have good enough headphones at the moment to really tell you if there is a difference. But it's always a nice add-in.
> I already have a pair of closed HP (my Momentum). Sure my mechanical keyboard makes a lot of noise when programming, but in many review I read open headphones are simply better on multiple aspect. I'm willing to try an open design.


 
 I don't know if it's me, but my GMB seemed to work it's way down from top to bottom clarity wise. The first thing I noticed was the treble, then the mids started to gain detail, now on day 4 it's the low end. Could be the jump I made from my previous DAC...


----------



## Mediahound

schneller said:


> No it is not. But would it matter? My DAC will feed my NAIM SuperNait2 IS via a RCA-DIN interconnect.




Probably not, if you're not running a balanced amp and don't have plans to.


----------



## mikoss

Gumby has arrived. First impressions... It's very quiet, fits nicely on the Zana Deux...


----------



## JK-47

mikoss said:


> Gumby has arrived. First impressions... It's very quiet, fits nicely on the Zana Deux...


 

 Lol..I just ordered one for myself too. The rubber Gumby that is.


----------



## Mediahound

jk-47 said:


> Lol..I just ordered one for myself too. The rubber Gumby that is.


 

 I guess that's a 'buy' if you want to have a Gumby on top of your Mjolnir 2. That's the only way it's gonna work.


----------



## JK-47

mediahound said:


> I guess that's a 'buy' if you want to have a Gumby on top of your Mjolnir 2. That's the only way it's gonna work.


 
 I think I'll have him escaping up the headphone cable chased by Lego's and GI Joe's (80's version).


----------



## TubemanRQ

Hey everybody!
  
 Approximately 280 hours of burn-in on the multibit Gungnir.
  
 Well,  worked over 13 hours today, got home and have been listening to my Gungnir-based 5-way active system for the last 4 hours. M..U..S...T       G...E......T       R...E....S......T...........  
  
 So far, only ONE of my 5 Gungnirs is multibit, the one I use for the tweeters. I sent two more Gungnirs in to get upgraded yesterday as my queue came up!!!!
 The bass frequencies from 100Hz to 40Hz, and 40 Hz to 20Hz  are being handled in the interim by the Behringer DCX2496.....I know I know....., not exactly high-end but they fill the bill for now. Balanced out of course.
  
 My impressions of the Gungnir multibit are based on using it ONLY on the tweeters!! I cannot wait to hear the multibit detail, soundstage, focus, inner detail, holographic, fluid, 3-dimensional, finesse and nuance that this will bring to the frequencies between 100Hz to 544Hz, and from 544Hz to 900Hz. WOW!
  
 I will let you all know my impressions of each of those ranges through the Gungir multibit as things burnin-in!
  
 -Cheers!
 -TRQ


----------



## mikoss

Wow TRQ... Talk about an army of sound! I can only imagine how nice that would be.


----------



## StefanJK

tubemanrq said:


> my Gungnir-based 5-way active system ....
> 
> So far, only ONE of my 5 Gungnirs is multibit, the one I use for the tweeters. I sent two more Gungnirs in to get upgraded yesterday as my queue came up!!!!
> The bass frequencies from 100Hz to 40Hz, and 40 Hz to 20Hz  are being handled in the interim by the Behringer DCX2496.....I know I know....., not exactly high-end but they fill the bill for now. Balanced out of course.
> ...


 
  
 Want to know more....Please!


----------



## TubemanRQ

In regards to the Gungnir multibit, I have simply been so enamored with the music that I thought I'd share a little and perhaps quantify on a more global scale what I am hearing, and how what I am hearing is affecting me.
  
 Having a tendency toward being a perfectionist, and my love for high-end audio reproduction in the home, I was always fascinated by two speakers that "disappeared" sonically, and projected a soundstage with performers on it. We can go into all the buzzwords: soundstaging, imaging, focus, depth, layering, liquidity, smoothness, air, decay, transients, micro dynamics, macro dynamics.......on and on.
  
 When Mike Moffat said, "The result is a D/A converter that images like nothing I have ever digitally heard. The promise is that with better recordings (Cowboy Junkies, for example) you hear the entire environment. If you check it against photos of the original session (often available as part of the LP/CD documentation or online), you may be shocked."  You can find that quote here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-delta-sigma-kinda-sucks-just-to-get-you-to-think-about-stuff/1800#post_11023066
  
 That is exactly my impressions of the Gungnir multibit, over a 2-channel audio system."  FINALLY, I can relax and enjoy the soundstage, imaging, focus, detail, resolution, etc. etc.  I am no longer straining to adjust speaker positioning or psyching out about a different amplifier because "maybe I can get more stable imaging." I can finally rest and chill out and enjoy the music BECAUSE the imaging is SOOOOO stable, and the focus is AMAZING! The soundstage is HUGE!!!! All I know is, now my system images GREAT and sounds AMAZING  at 1PM in the afternoon, or at 1 or 2AM.  BEFORE Gungnir multibit, listening in the afternoon didn't sound as good because the power grid is more in demand and dirtier. With multibit and the ability to resolve inner detail and imaging and soundstaging, the speakers disappear at 1PM just as good as they do at 2am ( well maybe a little bit better at 2AM.) Those of you who have stayed up late at night listening to your 2 channel systems know what I'm talking about. The power grid is much cleaner in the wee hours of the night/morning than in the middle of the day, therefore our gear sounds better too as a result.
  
 There is just a whole new dimension to the cohesiveness of the music that really is enjoyable.
  
  
 Cheers!
 -TRQ


----------



## johndean

Right now I think the MB Gungnir is one of the best dacs under 2k period . And that's after 5 hours of use . 

I would certainly tell anyone to pay the extra 400 bucks for the MB Gungnir over the delta sigma version.

If this is what Multibit sounds like I'm all in and will likely buy 
a Yggy next year .


----------



## US Blues

tubemanrq said:


> All I know is, now my system images GREAT and sounds AMAZING  at 1PM in the afternoon, or at 1 or 2AM.  BEFORE Gungnir multibit, listening in the afternoon didn't sound as good because the power grid is more in demand and dirtier. With multibit and the ability to resolve inner detail and imaging and soundstaging, the speakers disappear at 1PM just as good as they do at 2am ( well maybe a little bit better at 2AM.) Those of you who have stayed up late at night listening to your 2 channel systems know what I'm talking about. The power grid is much cleaner in the wee hours of the night/morning than in the middle of the day, therefore our gear sounds better too as a result.
> 
> There is just a whole new dimension to the cohesiveness of the music that really is enjoyable.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you are noticing sonic differences at different times of day, it is time to consider proper power conditioning.


----------



## johndean

us blues said:


> If you are noticing sonic differences at different times of day, it is time to consider proper power conditioning.



It could be humidity levels in the residence too . I find that when my house gets more humid , the audio quality declines 
Dry is good .


----------



## Mediahound

It could also just be your imagination.  
  
 Ducks.


----------



## Argo Duck

Let me just say I and my species take issue with the suggestion we are imaginary 



mediahound said:


> It could also just be your imagination.
> 
> Ducks. :blink:


----------



## johndean

The Schiit folks are pretty smart in bringing out a MB Gungnir . I heard talk that there was serious consideration in not offering it because 
they felt it would cannibilize Yggy sales . 

But guess what . Since I had a taste of the MB Gungnir , now I am a lot more interested in hearing the Yggy which I haven't yet . By the way 
I upgraded my Gungnir to MB . I did not buy a new MB Gungnir. 

Yes I am now a potential Yggy buyer .


----------



## mikoss

johndean said:


> But guess what . Since I had a taste of the MB Gungnir , now I am a lot more interested in hearing the Yggy which I haven't yet .


 
  
 I'm in the other boat... I heard the Yggy, fell in awe/love with the presentation, but just couldn't bring myself to spend that much. I waited happily for the MB Gungnir, and if it approaches the quality of the Yggy, I will be a happy man for years to come (provided that I forget about the Yggy, of course). My Gungnir is with Schiit at the moment getting the upgrade...
  
 I've auditioned the Yggy a couple of times, and each time it absolutely blew me away. Just the sheer amount of detail and resolution in 16 bit 44.1kHz files is astounding... it might be blasphemy, but I will say that in my opinion, the Yggy is as close to an end game vinyl rig as I've ever heard. I have yet to audition any 5 $ figure DACs, but I also don't think it's entirely necessary. These multibit offerings from Schiit are serious performers for their price.


----------



## AudioBear

I thought long and hard about ordering a Gungnir MB or an Yggy.  I wanted to be sure I wouldn't turn around and buy an Yggy after hearing Gumby.  I don't think I will because Gumby is so so good and I promised myself not to do that.  So while there may be some loss of sales to Gumby, there will probably be an off-setting addition to sales by Gumby trade-ups to Yggy.  Yggy is very hard to resist but there are some of us who have upper limits and Yggy was just too much for me.


----------



## wahsmoh

I have to hear this Gungnir MB for myself. My next chance to audition and compare against my own rig will be in November at the annual San Diego meet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I really enjoy my Theta so much and maybe I think Gungnir MB will be the more resolving DAC with better leading edges for the bass and treble.
  
 The Theta has that remarkable ability to sound truly "analog" and without any harshness or grain.
  
 The treble presentation I have always wanted to compare. The Theta never gets "hairy" and when the volume turns up the highs never seem to shift out of place like they do with my Bifrost Uber.
  
 I'm thinking this Gungnir MB will be a slightly more neutral and less forgiving DAC than my Theta DS Pro Progeny. I would like to make the next leap forward towards a balanced chain but my money is fearful of the diminishing returns and spirally road towards minor gains.
  
 Maybe if I get myself a Liquid Carbon the next logical step will be to go fully balanced R2R Gungnir.


----------



## AudioBear

My search for a DAC started with buying an LC. Makes sense to me.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

wahsmoh said:


> I have to hear this Gungnir MB for myself. My next chance to audition and compare against my own rig will be in November at the annual San Diego meet
> 
> I really enjoy my Theta so much and maybe I think Gungnir MB will be the more resolving DAC with better leading edges for the bass and treble.
> 
> ...




I will be able to compare both soon. I own the Theta Pro Progeny (which I found was actually Zach's of ZMF prior to my seller) and have the MB Gungnir otw, which is actually my former DS Gungnir now upgraded. I am looking forward to the comparison. It is likely the MB Gungnir will be a significant leap forward.


----------



## TubemanRQ

liu junyuan said:


> I will be able to compare both soon. I own the Theta Pro Progeny (which I found was actually Zach's of ZMF prior to my seller) and have the MB Gungnir otw, which is actually my former DS Gungnir now upgraded. I am looking forward to the comparison. It is likely the MB Gungnir will be a significant leap forward.


 
 I would say so. I owned a Theta DSPro Progeny A revision in the 90's. Unfortunately, I sold it, and regretted it ever since, but that's another story...  the Theta Progeny had AMAZING dynamics and had this really cool heft and weight to the bottom end, and it was very driving and tuneful. I am not sure how the Multibit Gungnir will stack up to that, HOWEVER I can say that I feel the Gungnir multibit will surpass the Theta Progeny in terms of soundstaging, inner detail, resolution, tonality and timbre, and probably quite significantly. it may also be more dynamic and driving, but without the two side by side I can't say exactly. But then again every system is unique and it would be interesting to hear your comparisons of the two!  
  
 Cheers!
 -TRQ
  
 BTW, the standard Gungnir is no slouch when it comes to dynamics and tuneful bass, but then again without the Progeny and Gungnir side by side to compare, I couldn't say for sure what the differences would be between them. I have not tried the Gungnir multibit in the bass woofers of my system yet, but I have heard the standard D/S Gungnir in the bass and it is GREAT!!


----------



## johndean

tubemanrq said:


> I would say so. I owned a Theta DSPro Progeny A revision in the 90's. Unfortunately, I sold it, and regretted it ever since, but that's another story...  the Theta Progeny had AMAZING dynamics and had this really cool heft and weight to the bottom end, and it was very driving and tuneful. I am not sure how the Multibit Gungnir will stack up to that, HOWEVER I can say that I feel the Gungnir multibit will surpass the Theta Progeny in terms of soundstaging, inner detail, resolution, tonality and timbre, and probably quite significantly. it may also be more dynamic and driving, but without the two side by side I can't say exactly. But then again every system is unique and it would be interesting to hear your comparisons of the two!
> 
> Cheers!
> -TRQ
> ...



The bass with the MB Gungnir it is tighter and worlds better 
than the D/S Gungnir


----------



## TubemanRQ

Actually, what is really cool about the multibit Gungnir, is that it gives you that detail that you crave, but don't realize you crave, when you are listening to the standard Gungnir. The immense soundstage also captivates you and is much more involving with the multibit Gungnir, as opposed to the more intimate soundstage that the standard D/S Gungnir presents.


----------



## TubemanRQ

johndean said:


> The bass with the MB Gungnir it is tighter and worlds better
> than the D/S Gungnir


 
 very cool! Can't wait!!


----------



## RCBinTN

Great to read all the positive comments about the Gungnir MB upgrade.  My upgraded Gumby shipped today from Schiit Audio.  Overnight to Tennessee.  The people at Schiit are just a delight to deal with - highly professional.  Can't wait to hear the improvement in sound afforded by the MB technology!
  
 Enjoy your Music,
 RCB


----------



## wahsmoh

tubemanrq said:


> I would say so. I owned a Theta DSPro Progeny A revision in the 90's. Unfortunately, I sold it, and regretted it ever since, but that's another story...  the Theta Progeny had AMAZING dynamics and had this really cool heft and weight to the bottom end, and it was very driving and tuneful. I am not sure how the Multibit Gungnir will stack up to that, HOWEVER I can say that I feel the Gungnir multibit will surpass the Theta Progeny in terms of soundstaging, inner detail, resolution, tonality and timbre, and probably quite significantly. it may also be more dynamic and driving, but without the two side by side I can't say exactly. But then again every system is unique and it would be interesting to hear your comparisons of the two!
> 
> Cheers!
> -TRQ
> ...


 

 That is something I can definitely agree on as an owner of one of these. The dynamics, heft, and impact of instruments is something you can really feel with this DAC. This is a very engaging DAC and I'd imagine one of the best single-ended DACs ever made. Other owners of Theta Prime II/Progeny have commented about how it sounds very similar to the Audio-GD DAC-19 DSP which uses PCM1704-Ks. I'm hoping that is the case and that the Gungnir MB will surpass the Theta in those categories. I just want to see if more resolution is possible at this price range or I have to move to the Yggy or find a Gen V.
  
 However, the Theta is assembled of some parts that are no longer manufactured. The GMB is modern and uses the lower model of the same DAC chip used in the Yggy from Analog Devices. Some of those old products were designed right.. no amount of time and technology can always improve upon what was achieved. If you look at the power supply area of the GMB versus the Theta you will see a similarity. Also if you look at the Berkeley Alpha DAC <--one of the better sounding DACs I have ever heard, it uses double transformer power supplies. The power supply I am told is one of the most important components to designing a good DAC. Look at MSB Diamond DAC IV and any other DAC that uses a separate power base like the EAD DSP9000mkiii.


----------



## Mediahound

Anyone else notice their Gungnir MB clicking sometimes when you are not playing music? Even if the computer is off, but the DAC is on, it sometimes clicks internally. It's a different click then when changing sample rates, a bit more quiet.


----------



## JorgeGVB

For those who have upgraded to the MB, has long has the turnaround time been? I have really been enjoying my Gungnir, so I hate to give it up. However, it sounds like the upgrade is worth the wait.


----------



## mikoss

jorgegvb said:


> For those who have upgraded to the MB, has long has the turnaround time been? I have really been enjoying my Gungnir, so I hate to give it up. However, it sounds like the upgrade is worth the wait.



Schiit received mine Monday morning and it was put in the mail back to me this afternoon.

Too bad it took Canada Post 13 days to get it down to Schiit. Aside from the posting, looks like about 24 hours of time for Schiit.


----------



## Mediahound

mikoss said:


> Schiit received mine Monday morning and it was put in the mail back to me this afternoon.


 
  
  
 Sounds like their 'scheduled upgrade' service works well. 
  
 Out of curiosity, do you have to pay shipping both ways?


----------



## JorgeGVB

mikoss said:


> Schiit received mine Monday morning and it was put in the mail back to me this afternoon.
> 
> Too bad it took Canada Post 13 days to get it down to Schiit. Aside from the posting, looks like about 24 hours of time for Schiit.




Thanks. Sounds like they have a good system set up to handle the upgrade in an expedient manner. I think I will submit my order after this weekend.


----------



## money4me247

quick question. for those shipping out for the upgrade, I am assuming that shipping costs both ways are not included in the upgrade board pricing and buyers are responsible for those?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

money4me247 said:


> quick question. for those shipping out for the upgrade, I am assuming that shipping costs both ways are not included in the upgrade board pricing and buyers are responsible for those?




That is correct. Shipping is on the buyer.


----------



## Shembot

mediahound said:


> Anyone else notice their Gungnir MB clicking sometimes when you are not playing music? Even if the computer is off, but the DAC is on, it sometimes clicks internally. It's a different click then when changing sample rates, a bit more quiet.


 

 Yes.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, windows 10 users...question. I've been having significant trouble with drivers since getting GMB and Win10 upgrade at the same time. Music will only play for 30 minutes or sometimes an hour and then the player, doesn't matter which, will freeze. Have to use task manager to end task. Then I can start up the music again and it will play for another 30 minutes. I'm using the latest driver from the Schiit site. 
  
 Please don't tell me to do stupid things like restart the computer or switch to a Mac. I work on PC's for a living so it would insult me and I'd have to call you names. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The event viewer is not recording any problems that would clue me in on why this is happening. Maybe it's just a bugging driver, but it should still show up in the event viewer. I have not tried a powered usb hub and really don't want to add more crap to my system, but I will as a last result. A powered hub has never been required for perfect playback before with any dac I've owned including the original Gungir that I just replaced. 
  
 Intelligent suggestions are appreciated.


----------



## Mediahound

matttcg said:


> Okay, windows 10 users...question. I've been having significant trouble with drivers since getting GMB and Win10 upgrade at the same time. Music will only play for 30 minutes or sometimes an hour and then the player, doesn't matter which, will freeze. Have to use task manager to end task. Then I can start up the music again and it will play for another 30 minutes. I'm using the latest driver from the Schiit site.
> 
> Please don't tell me to do stupid things like restart the computer or switch to a Mac. I work on PC's for a living so it would insult me and I'd have to call you names.
> 
> ...




Just making sure-did you download the driver from the Schiit website?


----------



## Mediahound

shembot said:


> Yes.




Thanks, I guess it normal. I wonder what it's doing when it clicks like that.


----------



## money4me247

ur not likely going to get any intelligent answers here that you havent tried alrdy if u r tech savy. contact schiit cs. gluck! hope it works out for you.


----------



## sheldaze

The most I can do, regarding the Windows 10 issues, is attempt to parallel what you have tried. I'll try to install the drivers tonight, and play some music for a while. I'd most likely be streaming though because I do most of my downloaded or ripped to hard drive music listening on my Mac.


----------



## MattTCG

mediahound said:


> Just making sure-did you download the driver from the Schiit website?


 
  
 Now I'm going to have to start the name calling.


----------



## TubemanRQ

matttcg said:


> Okay, windows 10 users...question. I've been having significant trouble with drivers since getting GMB and Win10 upgrade at the same time. Music will only play for 30 minutes or sometimes an hour and then the player, doesn't matter which, will freeze. Have to use task manager to end task. Then I can start up the music again and it will play for another 30 minutes. I'm using the latest driver from the Schiit site.
> 
> Please don't tell me to do stupid things like restart the computer or switch to a Mac. I work on PC's for a living so it would insult me and I'd have to call you names.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi!  Have you tried the WYRD? I use 3 of them back to back. The USB power coming off most of your typical PC motherboards is sub-par and very noisy. I also am using the MiniDSP NanoDigi 2X8B feeding the various frequency ranges to each of the Gungnirs, and they don't click. IF I just connect the Gungnir to my PC via USB or optical, it clicks. With the WYRD or MiniDSP it doesn't click...
  
 Sorry, I'm tired and I was trying to answer the other person's question about clicks.  Sorry... About Windows 10, not sure. I try to stay away from Windows.


----------



## Shembot

tubemanrq said:


> Hi!  Have you tried the WYRD? I use 3 of them back to back. The USB power coming off most of your typical PC motherboards is sub-par and very noisy. I also am using the MiniDSP NanoDigi 2X8B feeding the various frequency ranges to each of the Gungnirs, and they don't click. IF I just connect the Gungnir to my PC via USB or optical, it clicks. With the WYRD or MiniDSP it doesn't click...
> 
> Sorry, I'm tired and I was trying to answer the other person's question about clicks.  Sorry... About Windows 10, not sure. I try to stay away from Windows.




Wait a sec....you use THREE Wyrds in series? ...Why?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

matttcg said:


> Okay, windows 10 users...question. I've been having significant trouble with drivers since getting GMB and Win10 upgrade at the same time. Music will only play for 30 minutes or sometimes an hour and then the player, doesn't matter which, will freeze. Have to use task manager to end task. Then I can start up the music again and it will play for another 30 minutes. I'm using the latest driver from the Schiit site.
> 
> Please don't tell me to do stupid things like restart the computer or switch to a Mac. I work on PC's for a living so it would insult me and I'd have to call you names.
> 
> ...


 

 Powered hub almost certainly will resolve it. Windows 10 has different port power management than other versions of Windows.


----------



## MattTCG

jason stoddard said:


> Powered hub almost certainly will resolve it. Windows 10 has different port power management than other versions of Windows.


 
  
 Okay, and thanks Jason/everyone. I didn't want to add more schiit to my setup but I will try the hub first and then the Wyrd if necessary. I finally have all the amazing gear that I've ever wanted and I can't get my music to stop dropping out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Does it making a difference on whether using a usb 2 or usb 3 port?


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

matttcg said:


> Okay, and thanks Jason/everyone. I didn't want to add more schiit to my setup but I will try the hub first and then the Wyrd if necessary. I finally have all the amazing gear that I've ever wanted and I can't get my music to stop dropping out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd try the USB port that you know is directly attached to the motherboard first.  Usually there a "best" USB, then the rest.  Or better yet, test the voltages of each port, then use the best one...


----------



## Mediahound

buttuglyjeff said:


> I'd try the USB port that you know is directly attached to the motherboard first.  Usually there a "best" USB, then the rest.  Or better yet, test the voltages of each port, then use the best one...


 

 Does higher USB voltage mean better?


----------



## MattTCG

mediahound said:


> Does higher USB voltage mean better?


 
  
 Good question. 
  
 I've done a low level uninstall of the drivers including a manual registry cleanup. This time when I installed the driver for GMB it picked it up right away and initiated the install. Last time I installed it, there were several attempts before I had any success. This is using a powered hub. 
  
 Fingers are crossed. 
  
 Edit...didn't last five minutes before the connection dropped.


----------



## FlySweep

As a fellow IT engineer.. my expert advice:  Looks like you're gonna have to format your hard drive, Matt.


----------



## Hardwired

matttcg said:


> Good question.
> 
> I've done a low level uninstall of the drivers including a manual registry cleanup. This time when I installed the driver for GMB it picked it up right away and initiated the install. Last time I installed it, there were several attempts before I had any success. This is using a powered hub.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You'd think the powered hub would address this issue, but I'll ask anyway because it happened to me. How long is your USB cable? I tried a 10-footer and it would work for a few minutes and drop out. Went to a six-footer of the same brand and quality, haven't had a problem since.


----------



## MattTCG

flysweep said:


> As a fellow IT engineer.. my expert advice:  Looks like you're gonna have to format your hard drive, Matt.


 
 A good tech NEVER reformats...they resolve the actual problem. Techs who reformat work for the Geek Squad.


----------



## neogeosnk

matttcg said:


> A good tech NEVER reformats...they resolve the actual problem. Techs who reformat work for the Geek Squad.


 
 I concur.


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

mediahound said:


> Does higher USB voltage mean better?


 
  
 I believe clean even current is more important.  A nice smooth 5 volts...


----------



## TON13

Speaking of computers.  ESET popped off about a virus from the Schiit drivers I downloaded from their site for the GMB.  I have been working too much to look into or care but wasn't sure if anyone else had that issue.


----------



## Mediahound

buttuglyjeff said:


> I believe clean even current is more important.  A nice smooth 5 volts...


 

 Thanks. I just measured mine on my Mac. They all measure 5.09v consistently so I guess for me it doesn't matter which port I use.


----------



## Mediahound

ton13 said:


> Speaking of computers.  ESET popped off about a virus from the Schiit drivers I downloaded from their site for the GMB.  I have been working too much to look into or care but wasn't sure if anyone else had that issue.


 

 There was talk about this about a week ago. It's apparently a false error.


----------



## FlySweep

matttcg said:


> A good tech NEVER reformats...they resolve the actual problem. Techs who reformat work for the Geek Squad.


 


neogeosnk said:


> I concur.


 
  
 Oh dear.. looks like my sarcasm/troll face didn't make contact.  We've got a case of the Wednesdays!


----------



## MattTCG

flysweep said:


> Oh dear.. looks like my sarcasm/troll face didn't make contact.  We've got a case of the Wednesdays!


 
  
 It is hump day after all.


----------



## schneller

Multibit owners: what are you doing to improve USB and/or power coming into the DAC? Wyrd? UpTone Regen? AudioQuest JitterBug? Something else? Combo of these? All three? Buying Jitterbugs for all your unused USB ports for the USB devices in your house?


----------



## Mediahound

schneller said:


> Multibit owners: what are you doing to improve USB and/or power coming into the DAC? Wyrd? UpTone Regen? AudioQuest JitterBug? Something else? Combo of these? All three? Buying Jitterbugs for all your unused USB ports for the USB devices in your house?


 

 Wyrd here. Working well for me.  I've even A/B tested with and without it and yes, it does sound better with.


----------



## Shembot

schneller said:


> Multibit owners: what are you doing to improve USB and/or power coming into the DAC? Wyrd? UpTone Regen? AudioQuest JitterBug? Something else? Combo of these? All three? Buying Jitterbugs for all your unused USB ports for the USB devices in your house?


 

 Just Wyrd here. I don't think anyone actually has JitterBugs for sale yet? My local AQ dealer doesn't, and the sites I've bought from don't seem to.


----------



## schneller

So what does a Regen do that the Wyrd doesn't or vice versa?


----------



## JorgeGVB

schneller said:


> So what does a Regen do that the Wyrd doesn't or vice versa?




You might find this article interesting. 

http://www.audiostream.com/content/usb-accessory-roundup-uptone-audio-usb-regen-audioquest-jitterbug-schiit-wyrd


----------



## gevorg

schneller said:


> So what does a Regen do that the Wyrd doesn't or vice versa?




John Swenson described the differences here:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/uptone-audio-regen-22803/index16.html#post417237


----------



## cskippy

Felt like my wallet was getting too fat so I just splurged on a Gumby.  Should be here this weekend!


----------



## Liu Junyuan

My upgraded Gungnir has arrived. I have used it constantly since. I can definitely the hear the filter resemblance between the Theta and the Gungnir MB, but otherwise the latter is head and shoulders above the former thus far. 

I would defintely recommend the upgrade from the DS Gungnir.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Good to know. Does the 'DS' in 'Theta Digital DS Pro Progeny' mean delta-sigma or is it multi-bit?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

argo duck said:


> ^ Good to know. Does the 'DS' in 'Theta Digital DS Pro Progeny' mean delta-sigma or is it multi-bit?


 
 Good question. The Progeny uses a hybrid between multi-bit and single-bit: "*a combination DAC *that operated as a multi-bit DAC for the upper portion of its range and as a one bit DAC for the lower portion," according to the Theta Digital's "Legacy Product History" page, specifically employing two Burr-Brown PCM 67 DACs. Although it would seem like DS refers to delta-sigma, many of the unequivocally multibit DACs in Theta's lineup, including their Generation V flagship, feature the acronym "DS" in their names.
  
 I definitely can hear the family resemblance between the MB Gungnir and the Progeny. Both are great DACs, but I'm obviously still fresh to the MB Gungnir, and it hasn't had time to fully "heat up" yet.


----------



## Arnotts

First impressions of the GMB make me think that it does absolutely nothing wrong. Treble has no glare/edge/harshness whatsoever. 
  
 Has not blown me away compared to the M-DAC or X12, though. But it's only been on for a couple of hours. No time for me to really get used to it, or for it to warm up for the recommended amount of time.
  
 Wyrd > GMB > Valhalla 2 (i.e. I'm not using the balanced outputs) > HD650/HD800
  
 EDIT: The above setup sounds amazing with the DT250's. Yes, look at how much they cost.


----------



## sheldaze

arnotts said:


> First impressions of the GMB make me think that it does absolutely nothing wrong. Treble has no glare/edge/harshness whatsoever.
> 
> Has not blown me away compared to the M-DAC or X12, though. But it's only been on for a couple of hours. No time for me to really get used to it, or for it to warm up for the recommended amount of time.
> 
> ...


 
 I've not personally head the DT250 - do they have more air? To my ears, the upgraded sound is definitely in the air. It is the subtle stuff that happens around the instruments that makes the upgrade worthwhile. If your ears are picking up more of the air, the plucks, the sizzles, the singer's breathing, that's the best way to hear the upgrade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It's also in the black space between the sounds. The sounds are so "visually" stimulating that the black space between the sounds becomes that much blacker. Like when the band, as a whole, suddenly stops, changes volume, changes pace, it is all that much more sudden and less subtle.


----------



## TubemanRQ

Hey everyone!
  
    OK, fired up the next two Gungnir Multibit upgrades I received back from Schiit yesterday. and I replaced the standard Gungnir from the midrange frequency set of drivers (544Hz to 100Hz) and played a few familiar tracks. I also plugged the other multibit upgrade into my other PC and was running a burn-in track through it, but had not hooked it up to the main system yet. So after an hour or so, I knew there was more detail, and more openness, but I thought to myself, "Well, maybe the Gungnir multibit upgrade just really shines in the treble and upper frequencies."
  
 24 HOURS LATER:
  
    HOLY MOLY!!!! HOLY SCH##T!! The midrange grunt and guts just EXPLODED out of source material. The dynamic shading, especially choral pieces, like Festival te Deum from Chesky Records Ultimate Demonstration Disc. The ambient cues of the hall, the stage was SOOOOO much larger, The dynamic range was THUNDEROUS!! That piece goes from very quiet passages to LOUD, and it's not compressed!
  
  I cued up a few tracks from Fleetwood Mac, Rumours.  OHHH MYYYY! It sounded LIVE. The upper bass and lower midrange GRUNT of the piano keys striking the strings, the strumming on the guitars, and the KICKDRUM!!! It's these dynamics and the shading between soft and loud passages that pulls our heart strings. It's what you hear in a live venue, the micro and macro dynamics of REAL instruments and REAL people singing. It's ONLY been the first 24 hours!!
  
 In the range from 544Hz to 100Hz, the Gungnir multibit has incredible bass weight and grunt, growl and grit! Along with lower midrange palpability, and the detail and immersion in the soundstage just followed from what I am hearing with the tweeter multibit Gungnir.
 I can definitely tell that the lower bass will be much better, when I get the last two Gungnirs upgraded.
  
 I am running an all-active system, so there's no passive, power-robbing crossover parts in between the speaker drivers and the amps, which in my opinion not only lowers power requirements, but gives TREMENDOUS dynamics, micro and macro, along with much more inner detail, than an equivalent speaker designed with a lot of passive crossover parts.
  
 -TRQ


----------



## Mediahound

tubemanrq said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> OK, fired up the next two Gungnir Multibit upgrades I received back from Schiit yesterday. and I replaced the standard Gungnir from the midrange frequency set of drivers (544Hz to 100Hz) and played a few familiar tracks. I also plugged the other multibit upgrade into my other PC and was running a burn-in track through it, but had not hooked it up to the main system yet. So after an hour or so, I knew there was more detail, and more openness, but I thought to myself, "Well, maybe the Gungnir multibit upgrade just really shines in the treble and upper frequencies."
> 
> ...




Can you post pictures of your system? Very curious to see what it looks like.


----------



## AudioBear

I fully concur on the benefits of active X-over systems.  I built a system around DEQx processors that was just way beyond anything I had every heard from electronics and speakers.  Passive crossovers just mess up the sound.
  
 Good to hear that Gumby sounds so good when  played thru a more optimal system.  That said, I was listening to a cut on the Amber Rebarth Tales from the 17th Ward (can't remember which track) using my 1964Ears A12s straight from the LO thru a SYS and I was stunned by the impact, separation of instruments and voices and the size of the sound stage.  I don't normally think about all those audiophile terms and I just listen to th music but this just was so obvious and impressive I was stunned into paying attention to what Gumby could do.  cIEMs are not known for their sound stage but I ended up totally impressed with both the A-12s and the Schiit Gungnir.  I am loving this combo.   Don't know if not having an amp helps here.


----------



## FlySweep

audiobear said:


> I fully concur on the benefits of active X-over systems.  I built a system around DEQx processors that was just way beyond anything I had every heard from electronics and speakers.  Passive crossovers just mess up the sound.
> 
> Good to hear that Gumby sounds so good when  played thru a more optimal system.  That said, I was listening to a cut on the Amber Rebarth Tales from the 17th Ward (can't remember which track) using my 1964Ears A12s straight from the LO thru a SYS and I was stunned by the impact, separation of instruments and voices and the size of the sound stage.  I don't normally think about all those audiophile terms and I just listen to th music but this just was so obvious and impressive I was stunned into paying attention to what Gumby could do.  cIEMs are not known for their sound stage but I ended up totally impressed with both the A-12s and the Schiit Gungnir.  I am loving this combo.   Don't know if not having an amp helps here.


 
  
 This is an interesting setup.. Gumby > Sys > cIEM.  If I understand correctly, the Sys is attenuating the Gumby's line-level output (which is more than enough to power IEMs), correct?  Are there any impedance (since most cIEMs.. especially multi-driver/crossover-heavy BA-based designs that tend to have very low impedance levels in certain areas of the freq. curve) and/or noise level issues with this?


----------



## schneller

My question remains: GMB at $1250 vs. 2Qute at $1800? We're talking bare here...before the former "needs" a Wyrd/JitterBug/Regen BS...


----------



## Arnotts

Alright so the GMB has had about 14 hours warm-up so far, which is enough iirc. 
  
 First of all let me say that the M-DAC is still an absolute pleasure to listen to.
  
 But the GMB had me giggling for a few minutes straight while listening to music. Everything sounds... almost perfectly real. It's so real that it almost feels tangible. It's an extraordinary experience for someone who is heavily into audio, listening to such an excellent DAC.
  
 Every single track I have played has sounded so much more real. Every single type of music there is, from electronic to rap, rock, pop, heavy metal, classical to whatever else you can think of. If it's in the recording, this will show you. That's the big picture without needing to resort to way too many adjectives and too much hyperbole. My enjoyment for music has increased a fair bit 
  
 Using Wyrd > GMB > Valhalla 2 > HD650's


----------



## cskippy

Don't know how much of an effect the impedance mismatch would be but sys output impedance says 50k Ohm maximum.  that is 50,000 times as much as most headphone outputs!


----------



## AudioBear

flysweep said:


> This is an interesting setup.. Gumby > Sys > cIEM.  If I understand correctly, the Sys is attenuating the Gumby's line-level output (which is more than enough to power IEMs), correct?  Are there any impedance (since most cIEMs.. especially multi-driver/crossover-heavy BA-based designs that tend to have very low impedance levels in certain areas of the freq. curve) and/or noise level issues with this?


 

 Back when I was talking to someone at Schiit about buying a Bifrost for my A-12s I mentioned not having an amp and what did they think would be a good amp given that I didn't want tubes--too 19th century for my tastes.  They responded try a Sys with the Bifrost and forget the amp.  I responded with some drivel about damping factor and impedance mismatches and they said with IEMs i didn't need to worry about all that--just try it.  Then I got into headphones and never bought anything although I did order a Cavalli Liquid Carbon amp which should arrive soon.  So when Gumby was announced I ordered it.  I have a Micro iDSD that I can use as an amp and it sounded great with Gumby feeding it.  Then I remembered my previous discussions with Schiit about using the LO of a DAC and tried it.  I nearly fell off the chair when I heard a drum strike isolated in space at a specific spot in fine detail, and then a guitar string plucked on the left side closer to me but equally specifically placed that sounded like a real string being struck, and on and on.  Just so detailed, real, and spatially located it was amazing.  So, no, I can't see how impedance levels are important in this case -- t least with 1964Ears A-12s.  [forgot to directly answer, YES i am using the line out to Sys which you could look at as a cheap passive pre-amp or an attenuator and it works just fine.  SO much for theory--just try it sometime and let me know what you think.]
  
 Edited to respond to the question about noise:  one of the things that is so amazing about this set-up is the absolutely black background of total silence which I think helps pinpoint the instruments in space and reveals greater detail.   Frankly I never believed IEMs would allow large outside your head 3-D sound stages to be heard until I heard this.  Gumby is excellent and so are the A-12s.  I feed the system with a Mac Pro using Audirvana or Fidelia and 24/96 FLACs.  The USB goes through an iFi Micro iUSB.  I never thought things like the iUSB or the Wyrd would make much difference and was very skeptical when I bought the iUSB.  Suffice it to say I am no longer a skeptic.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

arnotts said:


>


 

 Congratulations on your new DAC. Your impressions mirror my own. How would you compare MB Gungnir with the X12?


----------



## ericr

You've got my attention! What are you using to convert the RCA on the Sys to 3.5mm for the A12?


----------



## AudioBear

ericr said:


> You've got my attention! What are you using to convert the RCA on the Sys to 3.5mm for the A12?


 

 A cheap little adaptor that has two RCAs at one end of one foot leads that join into a female 3.5mm plug into which the A12s plug.  Cannot remember where I picked this up along the long odyssey of  audiophilia but I have a drawer plugs and adaptors like that.  It would say it often seems to have just the adaptor I want were it not for the fact that it never has what I'm looking for if you know what I mean.  This time I found what I wanted.  Try Monoprice. 
  
 I'm not a big believer in the balanced thing but I have an A12 balanced to cable to fit the LC when it comes and I have balanced cables for the Gumby to the LC.  It's just that Sys is RCA all the way (which is fine with me) so I couldn't go balanced.  Do I care?  No not after having heard Gumby and the A12 make single-ended music together.


----------



## johndean

The MB Gungnir destroys the Mdac . The Chord 2Qute destroys the Mdac as well . 

Now MB Gungnir Vs Chord 2Qute ? Hmmmm. . 



I don't know if I have a winner in my judgement . I haven't listened long enough to both . 

Both are very good .


----------



## cskippy

So I only have about 6 hours on the Gumby so far but man!  The one word that comes to mind is realism.  There is this sense of just correctness that I hear.  Details just manifest themselves where I never heard anything before.  Some of my chain needs an upgrade.  Current listening setup that sounds the best is Gumby -> Pioneer Spec 2 using dual mono vol pots -> speaker taps HE-6 open grills vegan pads.


----------



## Arnotts

johndean said:


> The MB Gungnir destroys the Mdac . The Chord 2Qute destroys the Mdac as well .
> 
> Now MB Gungnir Vs Chord 2Qute ? Hmmmm. .
> 
> ...


 
 If it's not a clear step up, then imo the differences are too subtle to even care about. Keep the cheaper one and sell the more expensive one.
  
 GMB vs M-DAC is a clear step up, but only for those who spend as much time critically/actively listening as people like us. The M-DAC still makes me very happy, and it gives me a good illusion of realism (albeit less convincingly than the GMB) as well .


----------



## H-town-ear

Have had my GMB running for only 12 hours and I can tell this is going to be fun come middle of next week.  Everything is just crisper, more open and revealing of what is in the music compared to the regular gungnir.
 Very glad that I upgraded and thanks to the initial postings about the upgrade and impressions, they pushed me over the edge to upgrade.  Cheers Head-Fi'ers


----------



## RCBinTN

I have about 12-hours on my Gumby, and had experienced some less than consistent SQ.  I'd always powered down overnight, then saw a post from @Ableza that said just leave the DAC powered on and hot all the time, no music just AC power.  So last night I tried that, and it did seem to improve the sound quality.  Much more consistent today.  Thanks -
  
 Regarding the USB problem that @MattTCG had, my old Gungnir would also drop out after a short time, fed by either the USB2 or USB3 from my MacBook Pro.  Added the Wyrd and it solved the drop-outs, but also added another component.  Then I switched to using the optical feed, so no more issues with drop-outs.  I have not A/Bed the SQ difference between an optical or USB feed  - anybody have comments on that question?
  
 Thanks -
 RCB


----------



## Ableza

rcbintn said:


> then saw a post from @Ableza that said just leave the DAC powered on and hot all the time, no music just AC power.  So last night I tried that, and it did seem to improve the sound quality.  Much more consistent today.  Thanks -


 
  
 You are welcome, but the suggestion actually came from Mike Moffat ( @Baldr ) who designed it.  I was only repeating wisdom from the master.


----------



## RCBinTN

ableza said:


> You are welcome, but the suggestion actually came from Mike Moffat ( @Baldr ) who designed it.  I was only repeating wisdom from the master.


 
  
 Prost, sir.
 That's always a wise idea, especially when coming from the DAC master @Baldr.


----------



## H-town-ear

Beautiful stinking ear Schiit!  Only 36 hours into power on and music just keeps openning up and becoming Schiit eating grin good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Happy I made the upgrade!  MJ2 ordered for more aural enjoyment to come with the pair I'm sure


----------



## MattTCG

I thought that I'd update my earlier post about problems with the installation of drivers and playback issues with GMB.
  
 1. When I first got the GMB I had trouble with the installer. I downloaded drivers from Schiit for the win10 driver. When I got to the section of the install where you are prompted to plug in the device, nothing was recognized. After the third attempt the installer quits automatically. 
  
 2. Also it should be noted that Windows Defender falsely identifies some files of the installer as potentially viral. 
  
 3. Next I uninstalled any and every usb driver related to sound on the pc. I did registry edits to be sure that the process was complete. 
  
 4. Next I disabled Windows defender and restarted the installer for the driver. This time when prompted to plug in the device the installer was able to complete. At this point I thought all was well. It wasn't. 
  
 5. Using the DAC over the next few days, occasionally the music/player would freeze. I use jriver, foobar and musicbee. It did not matter which player was being used. 
  
 6. On advice from Schiit I installed a powered usb hub. This made no difference. 
  
 7. Finally as a last resort I ordered a Wyrd from Schiit...just today. 
  
 Also there are a couple of side notes here:
  
 *I used an original Gungnir prior to purchasing the GMB and it never skipped, paused or froze...not once.
  
 *I am now using an ifi dac for the past two hours. It plays perfectly. 
  
 *I've also gone through the advanced section of windows power management and disabled any power saving features related to usb. 
  
 *I attempted to install the driver and dac with my laptop. I got the exact same results indicated above.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Now all I have to do is read as many GMB vs. Yggy reviews to see whether or not the extra $1000 is worth it!


----------



## Pirakaphile

matttcg said:


> I thought that I'd update my earlier post about problems with the installation of drivers and playback issues with GMB.
> 
> 1. When I first got the GMB I had trouble with the installer. I downloaded drivers from Schiit for the win10 driver. When I got to the section of the install where you are prompted to plug in the device, nothing was recognized. After the third attempt the installer quits automatically.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds like what you need to do is send the Gungnir back for an operation..


----------



## MattTCG

pirakaphile said:


> Sounds like what you need to do is send the Gungnir back for an operation..


 
  
 I'll be honest...my frustration level is high, very. When it works, the GMB is fantastic. But as it is now, it's unusable. Using my portable ifi dac has given me an even better appreciation for how good the GMB is, when it works.


----------



## schneller

matttcg said:


> I'll be honest...my frustration level is high, very. When it works, the GMB is fantastic. But as it is now, it's unusable. Using my portable ifi dac has given me an even better appreciation for how good the GMB is, when it works.


 
 What OS is your laptop running? 
  
 Have you tried an OS besides Win10?


----------



## MattTCG

schneller said:


> What OS is your laptop running?
> 
> Have you tried an OS besides Win10?


 
  
 All of my pc's are win10. I could take one back to win8 as a last resort. I'd rather try the Wyrd first though tbh.


----------



## TubemanRQ

matttcg said:


> All of my pc's are win10. I could take one back to win8 as a last resort. I'd rather try the Wyrd first though tbh.


 
 I use Win8.1 Pro on my two-PC setup running JPlay. The audio PC streams the audio via USB, through the 3 WYRDs I have, then to a Peachtree X1 USB/SPDIF converter. The Audio PC sees the Peachtree USB/SPDIF converter only and I use the Thesycon drivers for it. Maybe you could try a USB/SPDIF converter? Perhaps Win 10 would like that better than trying to directly drive the GMB? Just a thought. Also, from some posts I have read, the Gen2 USB is not quite as good as the SPDIF coax or BNC input anyway.  Some people may have a different experience though, because everyone's system is unique.


----------



## MattTCG

tubemanrq said:


> I use Win8.1 Pro on my two-PC setup running JPlay. The audio PC streams the audio via USB, through the 3 WYRDs I have, then to a Peachtree X1 USB/SPDIF converter. The Audio PC sees the Peachtree USB/SPDIF converter only and I use the Thesycon drivers for it. Maybe you could try a USB/SPDIF converter? Perhaps Win 10 would like that better than trying to directly drive the GMB? Just a thought. Also, from some posts I have read, the Gen2 USB is not quite as good as the SPDIF coax or BNC input anyway.  Some people may have a different experience though, because everyone's system is unique.


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestion. I believe that the ifi dac that I have can be used as a usb/spdif converter, so I might try that. Also I've got a pc laying around that I forgot about. It has an optical out for sound and it's win8. It would need a few parts and a rebuilt. But hey, what the hell, we do what we must to get the music playing.


----------



## Stillhart

matttcg said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I believe that the ifi dac that I have can be used as a usb/spdif converter, so I might try that. Also I've got a pc laying around that I forgot about. It has an optical out for sound and it's win8. It would need a few parts and a rebuilt. But hey, what the hell, we do what we must to get the music playing.


 
  
 You could buy a RPi and put together a Volumio player for cheaper than buying a Wyrd or using another computer.  Curious if the Wyrd solves it for you tho.


----------



## RCBinTN

matttcg said:


> I'll be honest...my frustration level is high, very. When it works, the GMB is fantastic. But as it is now, it's unusable. Using my portable ifi dac has given me an even better appreciation for how good the GMB is, when it works.


 
  
 Youch.  Painful.
 I'm running the GMB via optical feed from the Mac.  No drops, but there have been four incidents where the playback froze for 3-5 seconds and then resumed, or the music played at about 1/3 the normal speed.  All of these episodes cleared themselves with no intervention by me.  One episode happened today so I'm watching the DAC to see what's next...
  
 Jason - are you hearing about issues like me and Matt are having?


----------



## XenHeadFi

matttcg said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I believe that the ifi dac that I have can be used as a usb/spdif converter, so I might try that. Also I've got a pc laying around that I forgot about. It has an optical out for sound and it's win8. It would need a few parts and a rebuilt. But hey, what the hell, we do what we must to get the music playing.


 
 Turn off any power management/sleep mode for the USB hub/ports that your are connecting to your Gungnir. Windows8 and 10 are pretty aggressive in turning off "unused" USB hubs. Unfortunately, pretty bad at determining if a hub is in use or not.
  
 Could that USB hub be overloaded? Try another bank of USB ports.
  
 Since the iFi doesn't seem to have issues and adding a powered hub didn't help, the probability of an issue with Gumby's USB increases.


----------



## cskippy

I've been using the Gumby with a 6 foot usb cable going to Wyrd.  From Wyrd to Gumby I use a usb A male to usb b male converter for as direct a connection as possible.  
  
 Running Windows 10 zero drops or freezes.  The only time I had an issue was with one abysmally schiity quality song that was 32kHz 32 bit lol.  Jriver stopped playback and asked if I wanted to convert or leave alone.  Doesn't matter which I choose Gumby just keeps on working.
  
 I hope others figure out the issues that they are having.


----------



## MattTCG

It may be a windows 10 issue but it's very tough to say. My computer is solid...I do build them for a living after all. I keeping thinking about that false positive that windows defender had with the driver files. That may not be the answer to my problem, but it's an issue nonetheless. 
  
 I'm putting together a windows 7 box as we speak. My guess is that it will work fine but that won't solve my issue. I need to get back to my primary desktop pc with win10. Anyway, I feel like I'm clogging up this thread. I'll spend a few days trouble shooting and let you guys get back to impressions on this great DAC.


----------



## cskippy

matttcg said:


> It may be a windows 10 issue but it's very tough to say. My computer is solid...I do build them for a living after all. I keeping thinking about that false positive that windows defender had with the driver files. That may not be the answer to my problem, but it's an issue nonetheless.
> 
> I'm putting together a windows 7 box as we speak. My guess is that it will work fine but that won't solve my issue. I need to get back to my primary desktop pc with win10. Anyway, I feel like I'm clogging up this thread. I'll spend a few days trouble shooting and let you guys get back to impressions on this great DAC.


 
 FWIW, I disabled Norton Antivirus before I did the install as it was flagging the files and removing them.  Installed the drivers, restarted the computer, and then everything was fine.  Did you say you got a Wyrd yet?  I haven't tried without mine but I could.


----------



## Hardwired

matttcg said:


> It may be a windows 10 issue but it's very tough to say. My computer is solid...I do build them for a living after all. I keeping thinking about that false positive that windows defender had with the driver files. That may not be the answer to my problem, but it's an issue nonetheless.
> 
> I'm putting together a windows 7 box as we speak. My guess is that it will work fine but that won't solve my issue. I need to get back to my primary desktop pc with win10. Anyway, I feel like I'm clogging up this thread. I'll spend a few days trouble shooting and let you guys get back to impressions on this great DAC.


 
  
 My music server is a Windows 10 machine plugged into my Gumby, using the oldest version of the Schiit USB driver and works fine, if the USB cord is 6 feet or less.  This was with the USB driver installed under Windows 7 and then upgraded to 10, so maybe that makes a difference.  Hard to tell with all the moving parts.


----------



## MattTCG

cskippy said:


> FWIW, I disabled Norton Antivirus before I did the install as it was flagging the files and removing them.  Installed the drivers, restarted the computer, and then everything was fine.  Did you say you got a Wyrd yet?  I haven't tried without mine but I could.


 
  
 Just ordered the Wyrd today. So it will be a little while before I can test with it. Logic tells me the issue is with the drivers and my particular computer/setup. The ifi dac that I have has no external power and pulls what's necessary over the usb port. I would suspect that this dac would also be cutting out if it were a noise issue or power over usb issue. So now that I've thought it through a bit, I don't expect the Wyrd to fix my problem. 
  
 If it's truly a driver issue, then there is nothing I can do, expect change computers and or operating systems. That would be a tough call. I need to be on win10 for work purposes.


----------



## MattTCG

hardwired said:


> My music server is a Windows 10 machine plugged into my Gumby, using the oldest version of the Schiit USB driver and works fine, if the USB cord is 6 feet or less.  This was with the USB driver installed under Windows 7 and then upgraded to 10, so maybe that makes a difference.  Hard to tell with all the moving parts.


 
  
 So did you use the new win10 driver or just let win10 use what it wanted?


----------



## Hardwired

matttcg said:


> So did you use the new win10 driver or just let win10 use what it wanted?


 
  
 The old version 1.01 Schiit driver is the only one I've gotten to work on Windows 7 or 8.1, so that's what was installed and I'm still using it.
  
 Edit: Ok, that's a lie. I just checked and I'm running 1.03, even though the Schiit download page says to use 1.01 with Windows 10. I'm breaking the rules.


----------



## MattTCG

hardwired said:


> The old version 1.01 Schiit driver is the only one I've gotten to work on Windows 7 or 8.1, so that's what was installed and I'm still using it.
> 
> Edit: Ok, that's a lie. I just checked and I'm running 1.03, even though the Schiit download page says to use 1.01 with Windows 10. I'm breaking the rules.


 
  
 Schiit list the 1.03 specifically for users having trouble with the standard driver. I'll give it a shot. 
  
 Edit...just loaded the 1.03. The computer picked up with no trouble at all when the cable was plugged. I had turned real time protection "off" for windows defender, BUT I still got spyware notification from defender. I proceeded with the install and restarted. Now playing music. 
  
 Let me stop here and say that after being on my old ifi dac for several hours today and then switching back to the GMB the improvement is nearly shocking. So despite all the trouble I've had, it has been somewhat worth it to really put how good the GMB is to these ears. 
  
 So now the music has been playing for 10-15 minutes and no freezes yet. Fingers are crossed. If the music plays fine for the next hour, I'll leave it playing over night and hopefully get up tomorrow with the tunes still playing.
  
 Many thanks to all those who've chimed in with support. Much appreciated...
  
 kindly,
  
 Matt
  
 Edit #2...just over an hour with perfect playback. Fingers still crossed. May not need the Wyrd after all. I would be interested in those using the Wyrd with GMB to let me know if they think it's a worth purchase.


----------



## mikoss

matttcg said:


> Let me stop here and say that after being on my old ifi dac for several hours today and then switching back to the GMB the improvement is nearly shocking. So despite all the trouble I've had, it has been somewhat worth it to really put how good the GMB is to these ears.



Sometimes I can't beleive the hype from all the Schiit fanboys on this site!!!!!

JK, of course  GMB is the real deal. 

As for the other DAC, send it on a sailing trip...  hope your driver keeps working.


----------



## TubemanRQ

matttcg said:


> Schiit list the 1.03 specifically for users having trouble with the standard driver. I'll give it a shot.
> 
> Edit...just loaded the 1.03. The computer picked up with no trouble at all when the cable was plugged. I had turned real time protection "off" for windows defender, BUT I still got spyware notification from defender. I proceeded with the install and restarted. Now playing music.
> 
> ...


 

 Just an FYI, for free, no cost, you may want to try a Linux LIVE session and see if there are any issues with Linux and the GMB USB. My daily driver PC runs Linux Mint Cinnamon version 17.1.
  
 A live session means you do not install it, it runs from a USB stick or DVD totally in RAM, and doesn't even touch the hard drive or SSD installed. You can try it and see if Linux gives any issues. I have always run my Gungnirs via Linux and had no issues.
  
 My main audio system is a DEDICATED two-PC setup, ONLY for music playback, no internet, no connectivity, no wifi, no email, NOTHING but music, that runs Win 8.1 PRO because the JPlay developers will not port an open-source version of JPlay for Linux.
  
 Just a suggestion that doesn't cost anything except a free download, create a bootable USB stick or bootable DVD of the Linux iso file, and try it. You can check it out at www.linuxmint.com  there are also several other versions of Linux, MOST that are free, no licensing verification, no activation needed, unlike Windows, and NO anti-virus. For the MOST part, Linux does not need it, but there are anti-virus programs for Linux. 
  
 My GMB in Linux has never had an issue like what you are experiencing in Windows 10. Just a suggestion that doesn't cost you anything.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## TubemanRQ

shembot said:


> Wait a sec....you use THREE Wyrds in series? ...Why?


 

 Hello,  Yes, I use three WYRDs in series. One WYRD sounded GREAT!! Lower noise floor, improved soundstaging and imaging, and a MUCH more emotional, musical presentation with a sweeter top-end. I then tried the next WYRD in series and it was even better.
  
 My thinking is that being a consumer-grade PC I am using, with a standard PC switching power supply which is VERY NOISY, the WYRD is OBVIOUSLY addressing the dirty USB power, and I would imagine is reducing data jitter also as it reclocks the USB signal. So if one WYRD is dramatically cleaning up the USB signal, two are cleaning it up even more. My experiment indeed shows that two in series sounds better than one. Jitter can dramatically affect and degrade the sound quality of your system, as long as the resolution of your system is capable of conveying thee changes.
  
 So, then I tried a third WYRD and the improvement was actually a teeny weeny bit better, but because it was better, in my system, I choose to keep it in. A fourth one actually didn't sound as good, so I keep it to three.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Dalgas

Have you tried using two wyrds in parallel? Use one USB-port for data and another USB-port for 5V - you have to buy/make a cable with two USB A plugs connected to one USB B-plug.
  
 The DS Gungnir do need 5 V - without it, there is no "hand-shake" with the PC. Guess the GMB must be the same (same USB-Card)


----------



## TubemanRQ

dalgas said:


> Have you tried using two wyrds in parallel? Use one USB-port for data and another USB-port for 5V - you have to buy/make a cable with two USB A plugs connected to one USB B-plug.
> 
> The DS Gungnir do need 5 V - without it, there is no "hand-shake" with the PC. Guess the GMB must be the same (same USB-Card)


 

 Hi,  I use a Peachtree X1 USB/SPDIF converter after the WYRDs, which feeds the MiniDSP Nano-digi 2x8Bs which then feed the multiple Gungnirs in my system to the various drivers for the various frequency ranges, all SPDIF interface.  I do not use USB inputs into the Gungnirs. It may improve the feed into the USB/SPDIF converter, but honestly, it sounds so good right now, and the system is complicated enough as it is, I may or may not look into it in the future. Thanks for the suggestion, and I think it is a viable suggestion to improve sound quality. 
  
 There are USB cables that distinctly separate the power wires from the data wires, but right now, I am enjoying amazing sound quality with the WYRDs, the USB cables that Schiit sells from StraightWire, and the Gungnir multibits!
  
 Cheers!
 -TRQ


----------



## RCBinTN

Hello All,
  
 Wanted to share my impressions on the new equipment - Gumby and Bryston BHA-1 - fun getting to know new equipment...
  
 Rig 1:  Gumby - BHA-1 - LCD-X
 Rig 2:  Gumby - HDVA600 - HD800
  
 The testing started after I let the Gumby's temperature stabilize for about 18 hours overnight.  At this point, the Gumby had about 15 hours on it (powered up and down) and the BHA-1 had about 10 hours.  Until I let the Gumby stabilize, the SQ had been somewhat inconsistent. After leaving it powered on, the SQ has been very even and consistent.
  
 Rig #1 on Saturday - the X sound better than ever before.  Well-defined bass slam, nice decay not too fast just right, very defined instrument sound and separation at all frequencies.  The soundstage is wider.  In addition to the bass improvement, I also noticed a really big change in the sound of the percussion.  More detailed that with the G/M rig.  I'm also hearing music that I didn't hear before - specifically in the rhythm guitars and background vocals - the music is more full.  Music tested - Abbey Road, Allen Toussaint, Amy Winehouse, 3 Doors Down, The Flecktones, Blues Brothers, Carole King, Santana, Yes, CCR, Doobie Brothers, Jeff Buckley, George Strait, New Grass Revival.
  
 Rig #2 on Sunday - here's where it got really interesting.  The HD800 sound Way better than ever before.  The sound stage was already wide with great instrument separation, now with the Gumby it's just over the top.  Rivals what I heard at the last Music City meet with the Yggr/Rag driving.  Maybe not quite as smooth, but not far away either.  I learned a valuable lesson - I don't need a new amp for this rig, the HDVA600 is just fine.  All I needed was a better DAC.  There is plenty of bass (on those songs that have bass to begin with) and the instrument clarity is exceptional.  Like with Rig #1, the music is more full - the mids are rich and the treble is not at all bright - just right.  The sound of the guitars is perfect.  These cans had been lacking bass fullness/punch but now they have it.  Music tested:  Albert King & SRV "In Session," Abbey Road, Winton Marsalis & Lincoln Center Orchestra "Live in Cuba" (Wow, this is great music), Abraxas, BB King "Blues Summit," Chesky Vocal Artists.
  
 I listened to Abbey Road (16/44) all the way through with both rigs.  That's the music David was playing with the Yggr so my best comparison.  My SQ is now closer to his - especially with Rig #2 and the HD800.
  
 Enjoy your music -
 RCBinTN


----------



## MattTCG

Okay gentleman...I've spent the entire day trouble shooting the issues with the GMB. To test the problem I did two things.
  
 1. Built a stock windows 7 box from scratch. Clean install of the OS. Drivers, updates and patches...nothing else. 
  
 2. Setup my laptop Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro with the GMB. This laptop has Win10. 
  
 Much to my dismay, neither of these solutions worked. The win7 desktop that I put together had noise problems right out of the gate. I tried different ports that the dac was plugged into and was sure to use the right driver in the right sequence. This computer is about three years old and is an HP. The power supply is stock and maybe it was causing the noise. 
  
 Second I setup everything with my laptop. I have used my laptop more like a desktop before on the original Gungnir with no issues whatsoever. Cued up the music and it sounded great for 10 minutes, and then the music froze. 
  
 I am simply at a loss at this point. The GMB does not work for more than an hour on three different computers using different operating system. Even when using a powered hub. Do I have a lemon? I don't know. I NEVER had a single issue with the original Gungnir. While I absolutely love the new DAC, it has become an exercise in frustration of the highest order. Music is my therapy. It's how I unwind and recharge. Unfortunately there has been no enjoyment for my since the new dac got here. 
  
 I have a Wyred on the way I guess as a last resort. If that does not eliminate the problem, then I really just don't know.


----------



## XenHeadFi

matttcg said:


> The GMB does not work for more than an hour on three different computers using different operating system. Even when using a powered hub. Do I have a lemon? I don't know.


 
  
 Try SPDIF and/or SPDIF/TOSLINK. If they fail, then your Gumby's internals might need servicing. If they work, then your Gumby's USB might need servicing. Your next step is probably sending it back to Schiit for repairs. I'm guessing they did the upgrade, so it should have some warranty left.
  
 You done a thorough job of testing and the common component has been the Gumby.


----------



## MattTCG

xenheadfi said:


> Try SPDIF and/or SPDIF/TOSLINK. If they fail, then your Gumby's internals might need servicing. If they work, then your Gumby's USB might need servicing. Your next step is probably sending it back to Schiit for repairs. I'm guessing they did the upgrade, so it should have some warranty left.
> 
> You done a thorough job of testing and the common component has been the Gumby.


 
  
 This was not an upgrade. It's a brand new unit (sold the old Gungnir).


----------



## ButtUglyJeff

matttcg said:


> Okay gentleman...I've spent the entire day trouble shooting the issues with the GMB. To test the problem I did two things.
> 
> 1. Built a stock windows 7 box from scratch. Clean install of the OS. Drivers, updates and patches...nothing else.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you by chance have an iPad or iPhone and a Camera Connection Kit?


----------



## MattTCG

buttuglyjeff said:


> Do you by chance have an iPad or iPhone and a Camera Connection Kit?


 
  
 Nope...don't on an apple product.


----------



## schneller

I would suggest that anyone having driver issues, esp. with Win10, that the problem lies with the driver/OS and not with the Schiit.
  
 If you are having problems in Windows, then try the Live Linux Distro option mentioned a page or two ago. Download the distro image file, install it onto a USB stick, boot into Linux, and try listening that way.
  
 Perhaps this option: http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/Downloads


----------



## money4me247

@MattTCG, why don't you just contact schiit customer support? just get a replacement one


----------



## mikoss

matttcg said:


> This was not an upgrade. It's a brand new unit (sold the old Gungnir).



Have you tried different usb cables?


----------



## MattTCG

money4me247 said:


> @MattTCG, why don't you just contact schiit customer support? just get a replacement one


 
  
 I've had an ongoing conversation with Schiit since the beiginning of the issue. I'm over the 14 day return policy. Not sure that I'm still entitled at this point. 


mikoss said:


> Have you tried different usb cables?


 
 yup...tried several. Mostly wanted to trying shorter ones. My primary LH labs cable is 6 feet so I wanted to be sure that I wasn't pushing the limit. 
  
 As much as I appreciate Schiit products and truly love the sound of this dac. I am looking at other options. 
  
 Edit...I was reluctant to keep posting here about the problem, but I thought there might be someone else going through the same issue and if there was a resolution then someone else could benefit.


----------



## AustinValentine

matttcg said:


> I've had an ongoing conversation with Schiit since the beiginning of the issue. I'm over the 14 day return policy. Not sure that I'm still entitled at this point.
> yup...tried several. Mostly wanted to trying shorter ones. My primary LH labs cable is 6 feet so I wanted to be sure that I wasn't pushing the limit.
> 
> As much as I appreciate Schiit products and truly love the sound of this dac. I am looking at other options.
> ...


 
  
 Pretty sure that the 14 day return policy is only for refunds. You should be able to RMA it for a repair or exchange at any point that it stops working during Schiit's warranty period (which is five years IIRC, since you bought it new). 
  
 This definitely seems like a RMA situation.


----------



## money4me247

matttcg said:


> I've had an ongoing conversation with Schiit since the beiginning of the issue. I'm over the 14 day return policy. Not sure that I'm still entitled at this point.
> 
> As much as I appreciate Schiit products and truly love the sound of this dac. I am looking at other options.


 
 5 year warranty. if you want to get it fixed, shouldn't be an issue. If you are regretting your gungnir purchase, shouldn't be too hard to sell.
  
 sorry to hear about your issues though.


----------



## Mediahound

matttcg said:


> I've had an ongoing conversation with Schiit since the beiginning of the issue. I'm over the 14 day return policy. Not sure that I'm still entitled at this point.
> yup...tried several. Mostly wanted to trying shorter ones. My primary LH labs cable is 6 feet so I wanted to be sure that I wasn't pushing the limit.
> 
> As much as I appreciate Schiit products and truly love the sound of this dac. I am looking at other options.
> ...




It does seem sorta disingenuous to post about your issues with it so much here, then refuse to let Schiit actually take care if it under their warranty.


----------



## MattTCG

mediahound said:


> It does seem sorta disingenuous to post about your issues with it so much here, then refuse to let Schiit actually take care if it under their warranty.


 
  
 Who said that I wouldn't let them take care of it? What I actually said was I was past the return period and wasn't sure where that left me.


----------



## Mediahound

matttcg said:


> Who said that I wouldn't let them take care of it? What I actually said was I was past the return period and wasn't sure where that left me.


 
  
 You did, here:
  


matttcg said:


> As much as I appreciate Schiit products and truly love the sound of this dac. I am looking at other options.


----------



## Khragon

It should still be cover under the 5 year warranty.  Schiit will want it back to test it, hopefully they are willing to send you a replacement before asking for the defective one back.  If they haven't offer you the exchange option already even after all those time troubleshooting, it maybe time to insist for an exchange.


----------



## leafs

mediahound said:


> It does seem sorta disingenuous to post about your issues with it so much here, then refuse to let Schiit actually take care if it under their warranty.


 

 I don't think that is Matt intention. I suppose Matt is trying to do what he could to narrow down the where/what might be the possible causes.
  
  
@MattTCG, those tests that you have already done might provide some useful information to Schiit. You might want to send it back to Schiit and let them figure out. I think you like this DAC and I hope it will work out for you.


----------



## MattTCG

mediahound said:


> You did, here:


 
  
 I'm not sure what your problem is or why you are so defensive. That is not what I said with regard to what you were calling me "dis-ingenious" over. I actually said...
  
 "I've had an ongoing conversation with Schiit since the beiginning of the issue. I'm over the 14 day return policy. Not sure that I'm still entitled at this point. "
  
 But I'd be more than happy to take this to pm if you still feel unclear.


----------



## Mediahound

matttcg said:


> I'm not sure what your problem is or why you are so defensive. That is not what I said with regard to what you were calling me "dis-ingenious" over. I actually said...
> 
> "I've had an ongoing conversation with Schiit since the beiginning of the issue. I'm over the 14 day return policy. Not sure that I'm still entitled at this point. "
> 
> But I'd be more than happy to take this to pm if you still feel unclear.


 

 You posted like 20x about your issue with the dac here and then you said, basically, I'm looking at something else now:
  


matttcg said:


> As much as I appreciate Schiit products and truly love the sound of this dac. I am looking at other options.


 


 ​ 



 At least give Schiit the opportunity to fix or take a look at your issue. Why not go through that process to see if it would be a positive outcome for you? 
  
 Tons of people are probably running the DAC just fine under Windows, if there was some widespread issue with it, I'm sure we'd be hearing from others also posting about the same problem you're having, but it's been pretty much radio silence. This leads me (and the others who posted) to think that it's likely a defect with yours and you should use their warranty and at the very least give them the opportunity to fix it for you.


----------



## MattTCG

mediahound said:


> You posted like 20x about your issue with the dac here and then you said, basically, I'm looking at something else now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have faith that Jason and the crew will tend to this issue in good time. I think you misinterpreted my comments about looking at other options. To be clear, if I can't get a reasonable resolution from Schiit I will indeed look at another product. Does that give you any right to refer to me personally as disingenious? It's trolling comments like yours that make productive threads difficult.


----------



## MattTCG

@Mediahound Now what I didn't do is blatantly try to publicly embarrass a company that I was having issues with and throw an infantile little hissy fit. As it turns out, you really can't say the same...
  
 "Wow, AudioEngine's customer service sure sucks. I placed an order on Monday, everything showed 'in stock' on their site. They email me Wednesday saying the items were not actually in stock but they would be in today, the 3rd and would be shipped out and I would get a shipment confirmation on the 3rd.

 Well, no shipment confirmation was emailed today and no one answered their phone. Meanwhile back on Monday, my credit card was charged the full order amount.."


----------



## earnmyturns

matttcg said:


> I am simply at a loss at this point. The GMB does not work for more than an hour on three different computers using different operating system. Even when using a powered hub. Do I have a lemon? I don't know. I NEVER had a single issue with the original Gungnir. While I absolutely love the new DAC, it has become an exercise in frustration of the highest order. Music is my therapy. It's how I unwind and recharge. Unfortunately there has been no enjoyment for my since the new dac got here.


 
 I don't use Windows and I don't have (yet) a Gumby. But I've seen enough weirdness on digital music data paths that I've taken to break the route from the stored music bits to the DAC into the smallest controllable units. In particular, I've given up using generic computers and operating systems to drive my DACs. Instead, I store my music on a NAS (Synology) connected by a pro-quality router (Ubiquiti EdgeRouter PoE-5) to two UPnP/DLNA streaming setups: 1) SOtM sMS-100, connected by a short, good quality USB cable to a Bifrost Uber; 2) CuBox-I2eX with Volumio open source software connected by short USB to a Bel Canto mLink connected by S/PDIF high-quality coax to either the Bifrost Uber (for a headphone chain) or to a Bel Canto C7R (still burning in) driving KEF LS50 speakers. I control the streamers with the great Android app BubbleUPnP. No problems all all with either setup, except for the inevitable configuration tweaks and occasional streamer reboot after power outages or network reconfigurations. The mLink definitely improves definition and stereo imaging when interposed between the CuBox-I and the Bifrost, and it also improved over the built-in streamer in the Naim Unitiqute I traded in for the C7R, but it doesn't do much interposing between the sMS-100 and the Bifrost. But the main thing for this thread is that I don't try to use laptop or desktop USB drivers to connect directly to a DAC, general-purpose machines just run too much crap concurrently for me to trust their ability to drive a DAC reliably. Yes, both the sMS-100 and the CuBox-I+Volumio run Linux distros and drivers and variants of well-known Linux audio stacks, but they are just doing a lot less while streaming than your average general-purpose computer so there are fewer chances for failure.


----------



## kothganesh

Matt
  
 this might be a long shot but what you are describing happened to me with my Yggy. It would work and suddenly it would stop. Tried USB, optical, coax etc....same result. A friend of mine opened up the Yggy and started checking meticulously.... turned out some of the connector pins on the cable connecting the inputs to the output were bent/broken...replaced the cable and touch wood, no problems thereafter (this was 3 weeks ago).... may work for you if you choose to do so... obviously, you may not have a similar problem...


----------



## MattTCG

kothganesh said:


> Matt
> 
> this might be a long shot but what you are describing happened to me with my Yggy. It would work and suddenly it would stop. Tried USB, optical, coax etc....same result. A friend of mine opened up the Yggy and started checking meticulously.... turned out some of the connector pins on the cable connecting the inputs to the output were bent/broken...replaced the cable and touch wood, no problems thereafter (this was 3 weeks ago).... may work for you if you choose to do so... obviously, you may not have a similar problem...


 
  
 Thanks for sharing this. I'm waiting to hear back from Schiit. If they give me the green light to take a look around, I'll check for what you've described. Many thanks!!


----------



## RCBinTN

matttcg said:


> Thanks for sharing this. I'm waiting to hear back from Schiit. If they give me the green light to take a look around, I'll check for what you've described. Many thanks!!


 
  
 Matt - have you experienced the problem with optical feed in addition to the USB?


----------



## Barry S

matttcg said:


> Thanks for sharing this. I'm waiting to hear back from Schiit. If they give me the green light to take a look around, I'll check for what you've described. Many thanks!!


 
 I had all sorts of USB issues with my Gungnir when I first got it. Was convinced it was a computer, cable or driver issue until Schiit replaced the USB board and the problem was 100% fixed. Good luck.


----------



## MattTCG

rcbintn said:


> Matt - have you experienced the problem with optical feed in addition to the USB?


 
  
  


barry s said:


> I had all sorts of USB issues with my Gungnir when I first got it. Was convinced it was a computer, cable or driver issue until Schiit replaced the USB board and the problem was 100% fixed. Good luck.


 
  
 I decided to build a brand new pc with components of very high quality. I was planning to do this anyway without the issues I've had. It will one take a day or two. I'll dual boot windows and a linux distro. If there are still problems with the dac I'll ask Schiit to take a look at it and send it back. 
  
 I wanted to apologize if I used this thread to vent inappropriately. My intention was to share the details of the problem so that others might benefit. But if I regurgitated too much of my frustration, then I'm sorry about that.


----------



## bflat

matttcg said:


> I decided to build a brand new pc with components of very high quality. I was planning to do this anyway without the issues I've had. It will one take a day or two. I'll dual boot windows and a linux distro. If there are still problems with the dac I'll ask Schiit to take a look at it and send it back.
> 
> I wanted to apologize if I used this thread to vent inappropriately. My intention was to share the details of the problem so that others might benefit. But if I regurgitated too much of my frustration, then I'm sorry about that.


 

 What is your BIOS setting for USB EHCI? What brand of motherboard is it?  If it is disabled Windows will load it's own USB driver. If you have it enabled, it means the BIOS is forcing the driver. "Auto" is generally the best choice, but you may want to try different settings.


----------



## TubemanRQ

Hey everyone,
  
    All I can say is, I worked over 10 hours yesterday, came home, and listened to three Patrick O'Hearn CDs straight!! I finally implemented the 5th Gungnir into my system, a standard Gungnir- not multibit,  into my system, to fill in the duty of the stereo subs, from 40Hz to below 20Hz.
  
   Before this, I was using the Behringer DCX2496 for bass duties. I really don't have a hi-end reference DAC to compare to the standard Gungnir. All I can say is, I now understand my audiophile friend who told me how important good digital is in the low end. There was a captivating, tuneful bass presentation. I didn't have to play the system loud to hear and FEEL the bass notes being portrayed through O'Hearn's masterful repertoire. The bass didn't drown out the upper midrange or treble either, but that is also the result of careful system setup with my fully active system. I was in AWE! There was a much lower noise floor that allowed me to hear, and feel, the bass notes' suttle nuances.
  
 Cheers!!


----------



## artur9

tubemanrq said:


> The bass didn't drown out the upper midrange or treble either, but that is also the result of careful system setup with my fully active system. I was in AWE! There was a much lower noise floor that allowed me to hear, and feel, the bass notes' suttle nuances.
> 
> Cheers!!


 
 I wish I could hear it.  Sounds too elaborate for a traveling show?


----------



## rwelles

Thanks to all for your feedback on the MB upgrade. Mine is being shipped back now. Can't wait for some Gumby Goodness!!
  
 The whole process is pretty quick. When I placed my order, they let me know that I was 6th in the queue. The next day I received the email with an RA # and shipping instructions. My Gumby was shipped back to me the day after it arrived.


----------



## RCBinTN

rwelles said:


> Thanks to all for your feedback on the MB upgrade. Mine is being shipped back now. Can't wait for some Gumby Goodness!!
> 
> The whole process is pretty quick. When I placed my order, they let me know that I was 6th in the queue. The next day I received the email with an RA # and shipping instructions. My Gumby was shipped back to me the day after it arrived.


 
  
 Don't forget to let it heat-up w/ the AC power on (no music) for about 12-hrs or overnight.  It will improve the SQ.  I listened to mine cold, out of the box, but found the sound improved after I started leaving it hot.  Enjoy the music!!


----------



## Mediahound

Question: do you think it would be better to connect to powered desktop speakers (unbalanced) via the Gungnir MB RCA outs, or the preamp RCA outs of the Mjolnir 2? 
  
 I realize if I connect directly out of the DAC, I would have to control the volume on the speakers themselves and also would lose the tube sound. But generally, which of the above is a better practice?


----------



## BeatsWork

thomascrown said:


> Please post a picture of your set up if you don't mind.
> 
> Thanks!




I'm still adding up the wattage consumption and heat dissipation. 4 ton AC dedicated to listening room?!


----------



## H-town-ear

@Mediahound, I have the same speaker setup and have not tried setup out of Gumby pre outs but have always used preamp outs on Lyr 2 and also Asgard to the speakers. It is nice to have one set volume on speakers and then adjusting volume through amp. 

Have Mjoliner 2 arriving tomorrow and will try it against the other amps for sound quality, but I have found less of a difference between the amps going to speakers than I would have thought. So tend to use speakers with company over and then LCD-2 when want to get into the music. 

Post if you try the Gumby pre out and it sounds better. Cheers!


----------



## Wingtip

I don't own a Gungnir, but I've looked at the user manual and still can't figure out whether there is an output selector switch. I'd like to run a pair of single-ended RCA outputs to my main stereo amp, and run the balanced outputs to my Mjolnir 1. Is there a switch, or does the Gungnir send a signal to all three (2 SE, 1 Bal) outputs at all times?


----------



## sheldaze

wingtip said:


> I don't own a Gungnir, but I've looked at the user manual and still can't figure out whether there is an output selector switch. I'd like to run a pair of single-ended RCA outputs to my main stereo amp, and run the balanced outputs to my Mjolnir 1. Is there a switch, or does the Gungnir send a signal to all three (2 SE, 1 Bal) outputs at all times?


 

 Output to all three, all the time.


----------



## Ableza

sheldaze said:


> Output to all three, all the time.


 

 ... like most preamps.


----------



## JamesBr

sheldaze said:


> Output to all three, all the time.


 
 Pretty much all are like that hehe


----------



## Peaceofmind

This is my first post here, hoping to order a Gumby multibit in a few months. I have two Questions. Does anyone know if the Gumby multibit can be converted to accept foreign or domestic input voltage by moving a jumper inside the DAC? Second question, why doesn't Schiit Audio offer a USB Gen 3 upgrade for the Gumby multibit?


----------



## MattTCG

peaceofmind said:


> This is my first post here, hoping to order a Gumby multibit in a few months. I have two Questions. Does anyone know if the Gumby multibit can be converted to accept foreign or domestic input voltage by moving a jumper inside the DAC? Second question, why doesn't Schiit Audio offer a USB Gen 3 upgrade for the Gumby multibit?


 
  
 The option for voltage is selectable when you order the dac. The usb 3 implementation was reserved for the Yggy dac, I do believe.


----------



## Peaceofmind

I was just wondering if the user can change the input voltage himself as I do like to travel oversea every once in a while.


----------



## Peaceofmind

I guess I can always buy a 220V to 110V transformer to power the 115V input Gumby multibit if I take it oversea.


----------



## schneller

I think I read on a different (praising a different DAC) someone argues that the RCA outputs of the GMB are crap compared to the XLR. Did Schiit gimp the RCA outputs in some way?


----------



## Ableza

peaceofmind said:


> I was just wondering if the user can change the input voltage himself as I do like to travel oversea every once in a while.


 
 Why would you want to travel with a Gungnir?
  
 Looking at the photos of the back on the Schiit website, no.
  
 http://schiit.com/products/gungnir


----------



## mikoss

schneller said:


> I think I read on a different (praising a different DAC) someone argues that the RCA outputs of the GMB are crap compared to the XLR. Did Schiit gimp the RCA outputs in some way?


 
 I don't think they gimped them... I think the balanced outputs aren't summed, and thus have been reviewed to sound better. This is an architecture thing, and the reason why it's priced like it is. You're always welcome to use a converter with the balanced outputs, but the good converters are nearly $500, which would bring up the price. Personally, I will stick with SE for now, and try balanced once I'm used to the sound.


----------



## Peaceofmind

"Why would you want to travel with a Gungnir?" Because I have a house in California and a house in the Philippines.


----------



## sheldaze

FWIW,
  
 When the guys bring the smaller Schiit to the headphone meets, they usually leave it out of the box. That's because it small, and it'll fit comfortably in something. I brought a Valhalla and Bifrost Uber to my first meet, and did the same. I simply put it in a plastic container and had no problems.
  
 I just brought my GMB to my second meet, and it's huge. I did not feel comfortable bringing it without packing it back in the original box. The original box is 21 x 12.5 x 7.5 inches. It's not something I'd really want to bring on the plane as my onboard luggage.
  
 I'm personally looking at smaller options, like an Arcam irDAC or simply keeping my Bifrost (in hopes they add some R2R goodness to it). Yes, these are not balanced options (in case you, like me, are looking forward to a nice Cavalli balanced headphone amplifier). But they are much smaller options.


----------



## johndean

mikoss said:


> I don't think they gimped them... I think the balanced outputs aren't summed, and thus have been reviewed to sound better. This is an architecture thing, and the reason why it's priced like it is. You're always welcome to use a converter with the balanced outputs, but the good converters are nearly $500, which would bring up the price. Personally, I will stick with SE for now, and try balanced once I'm used to the sound.




What type of converter would you recommend ?


----------



## AustinValentine

johndean said:


> What type of converter would you recommend ?


 
  
 This would be a pretty safe bet: http://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/pc-2xr/


----------



## johndean

austinvalentine said:


> This would be a pretty safe bet: http://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/pc-2xr/




Yeah and passive too !


----------



## TubemanRQ

mikoss said:


> I don't think they gimped them... I think the balanced outputs aren't summed, and thus have been reviewed to sound better. This is an architecture thing, and the reason why it's priced like it is. You're always welcome to use a converter with the balanced outputs, but the good converters are nearly $500, which would bring up the price. Personally, I will stick with SE for now, and try balanced once I'm used to the sound.


 
  


johndean said:


> What type of converter would you recommend ?


 
 I use 5 Gungnirs in my active system. One of them is hooked up to a single-ended amplifier. I use the balanced outputs for that amplifier with a pair of simple XLR to RCA connector adapters. The amplifier has a volume control (input gain attenuator), but because the adapter is throwing away half the signal anyway, the inverted signal, the output levels are relatively safe for single-ended gear. I have never used converters. Soem of these convereters look like they are simply using a transformer to lower the output voltage, but then you are still going through a transformer. The balanced output stages of the Gungnir and Gungnir multibit are very good. I prefer them. If you feel the need to use the RCA single-ended outputs, by all means use them, but I feel the sound quality of using an XLR to RCA adpater is better because you are not listening to the summing circuit that is in the RCA output stage.
  
 -TRQ


----------



## johndean

tubemanrq said:


> I use 5 Gungnirs in my active system. One of them is hooked up to a single-ended amplifier. I use the balanced outputs for that amplifier with a pair of simple XLR to RCA connector adapters. The amplifier has a volume control (input gain attenuator), but because the adapter is throwing away half the signal anyway, the inverted signal, the output levels are relatively safe for single-ended gear. I have never used converters. Soem of these convereters look like they are simply using a transformer to lower the output voltage, but then you are still going through a transformer. The balanced output stages of the Gungnir and Gungnir multibit are very good. I prefer them. If you feel the need to use the RCA single-ended outputs, by all means use them, but I feel the sound quality of using an XLR to RCA adpater is better because you are not listening to the summing circuit that is in the RCA output stage.
> 
> -TRQ




Thanks for your input . What xlr to rca adapter would you recommend . My integrated amp has only rca inputs and I would like to check out the xlr outputs of my Gungnir .


----------



## TubemanRQ

johndean said:


> Thanks for your input . What xlr to rca adapter would you recommend . My integrated amp has only rca inputs and I would like to check out the xlr outputs of my Gungnir .


 
 I simply use the XLR/RCA adapters from Guitar Center, here locally. It is the female XLR on one end, obviously, and the female RCA on the other end.
 Frys Electronics also has them, or you can purchase them online. There are a few companies that make them. You can also make one from actual XLR connectors, then terminate the other end in RCA, then you won't be listening to an extra adapter! That should sound even better! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 P.S. All they do is tie the inverted signal and ground together at the RCA ground. Pretty simple.


----------



## Ableza

peaceofmind said:


> "Why would you want to travel with a Gungnir?" Because I have a house in California and a house in the Philippines.


 
 Ah.  Well that's different from "traveling" in my book.  I travel half the time for my work, which means flights and hotels and on the move and yes, all over the world.  I would never think of lugging along something as large and non-portable as a Gungnir.


----------



## Peaceofmind

If I go to Schiit website and look at the a close up picture of the Gungnir circuit board, I can read this "6A 120V/250V, 50-60HZ" where the power cord connects to the board. And what I see that appears to look like a rectangular black jumper right next to each large transformers. It would make sense financially for Schiit to use power supply transformer with multiple 120V or 250V taps rather then to built two voltage specific power supplies.


----------



## MattTCG

Update on my problems with drop out over usb. I received the Wyrd this morning and the music has been playing for about four hours with perfect playback. Also, call me crazy but resolution is better and the noise floor is noticeably lower. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I know that there are bias involved here but I swear I hear an improvement using the Wyrd. 
  
 Even with a new pc built from scratch with a high end Corsair psu, I still got drop prior to adding the Wyrd. I'm not sure how I feel about a $1250 dac that drops out at least once an hour over usb. My something is wrong with the usb board in my GMB and the Wyrd is able to alleviate the problem. Not sure. I do know that the sound is the GMB is the real deal and the best improvement I've made to my chain in a long time. 
  
 At this point I'm glad to be listening and enjoying music again frustration free.


----------



## KarlMoody

Hello to everybody! 
  
 My first post on Head-Fi.
  
 Has anyone compared the Schiit GMB to the Exasound E12/22? I'm looking to get a new DAC and would love to hear about your impressions. 
  
 I'm running a HE-560/Lyr2 combo right now. ( My current DAC is the tiny M2Tech Hiface DAC ).
  
 Thanks
 Charles


----------



## TubemanRQ

matttcg said:


> Update on my problems with drop out over usb. I received the Wyrd this morning and the music has been playing for about four hours with perfect playback. Also, call me crazy but resolution is better and the noise floor is noticeably lower.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Matt!
  
 Ummmmmmmmm, you are NOT crazy! The digital data signal rides on an analog waveform, and the analog waveform is susceptible to noise. Even a "high-end" Corsair power supply is still a digital switching power supply, and those are just NOISY! Also, I would venture to say that my experience with the WYRD proves out that MOST consumer grade PC motherboards have VERY noisy USB outputs, along with mediocre capacitors, regulators, etc. Your GMB was trying to lock onto a signal and probably was getting overwhelmed with dirty power. There was probably a TON of data jitter on the USB output, which the WYRD has cleaned up considerably.
  
 Do you use a power conditioner in your system also? If not I would HIGHLY recommend one. I use 4 Powervar power conditioners, 2 are 16-amp rated and 2 are 20-amp rated, and wouldn't listen to my system without  them!
  
 Cheers!
  
 P.S. There's a REASON I use THREE WYRDs in my system back to back. It sounds better!


----------



## Shembot

tubemanrq said:


> P.S. There's a REASON I use THREE WYRDs in my system back to back. It sounds better!


 
  
 I'm having trouble understanding why this would improve the sound quality based on how the Wyrd works. The Wyrd simply replaces the incoming dirty USB power and replaces it with its own linear power, and it reclocks in the incoming signal with a high-precision crystal oscillator. Once the power and signal come out of the Wyrd, they're already cleaned and reclocked...doing it again would just be throwing away clean power and replacing it with equally clean power and then reclocking an already precisely clocked signal.


----------



## thomascrown

peaceofmind said:


> If I go to Schiit website and look at the a close up picture of the Gungnir circuit board, I can read this "6A 120V/250V, 50-60HZ" where the power cord connects to the board. And what I see that appears to look like a rectangular black jumper right next to each large transformers. It would make sense financially for Schiit to use power supply transformer with multiple 120V or 250V taps rather then to built two voltage specific power supplies.



I have your same problem, so I asked schiit for a solution,they suggested me to buy a transformer or buy another brand.


----------



## Peaceofmind

It's easy enough to buy a 220V to 110V transformer in a foreign country and plug your 115V Gungnir into that. Most companies that have a jumper to switch a component between foreign and domestic input voltage are reluctant to say so because they're afraid their component can be bought domestically then changed to a foreign voltage and sold oversea on the black market.


----------



## Peaceofmind

If these are jumpers, the plastic rectangular things right next to each transformer on the Gungnir circuit board then it should be easy to pull straight off the the circuit board. On the circuit board itself, under where the jumper was removed, you should see 4 pins sticking straight up. Now with the small plastic jumper in your hand test each connection on the jumper itself with a multimeter set to Continuity Beep. I only speculating now but I think you will find for 120V usage, pins 1-2 are shorted or beeping on the multimeter as well as pins 3-4 are shorted on the jumper. Again this is only speculation, for 230V usage, on those small plastic jumpers probably only the middle pins 3-4 are shorted.

We will never know until someone here removes the metal casing, removes the jumpers (if they are jumpers) and test for continuity. Schiit is not going to release that information.


----------



## Peaceofmind

So much bull of Schiit Audio being the people DAC or a populist audio company. They can tell you to look elsewhere because they know they have a hot product. Sorry Schiit Audio wasn't more helpful in your asking for a solution to your foreign and domestic input voltage usage.


----------



## wahsmoh

thomascrown said:


> I have your same problem, so I asked schiit for a solution,they suggested me to buy a transformer or buy another brand.


 

 Nothing wrong with that idea. I use a Goldsource 220V-120V step down transformer for my 1995 EAD CD-1000 Series III (240V) that I bought from Europe. It's better than going through the effort to get it modified and switched.


----------



## cskippy

Schiit is just doing like any company and covering their butts.  It's also better for you, the customer, so you don't accidentally damage your Gungnir.  Just buy a step up or step down transformer.  Like $30.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ +1 to cskippy's post.

And...where and when has Schiit claimed they produce the "people DAC" or that they are "populist". They claim (paraphrasing) to provide good engineering at sensible prices, produced in the USA. If others have used terms like "people DAC" and "populist" of Schiit, that's other people. Don't confuse the two.

Reading Jason's very revealing 'story of Schiit' thread, they (sometimes) suggest to some potential customers to consider another product because they don't believe any company can be all things to all people and survive. Reduced options keep costs down.

This has nothing to do with thinking either they or their products are "hot".


----------



## Peaceofmind

"Schiit audio really is a populist audio company. We want to offer the best value products. It therefore has limited products in its line; simplifying the line makes us more efficient. We try to pack in as much as possible at every price point. Understand, we make DACs from $100 to $2300. Generally, our products are compared to products selling for much more. We do not offer multi-colors or D/A converters with volume controls built-in. The Yggy has high enough output to be used with an external attenuator. So get one if that is what you want. We cannot please everyone.". Quote posted today from Mike Moffat at a Computeraudiophile forum.

I myself am planning on getting a Gungnir multibit by early next year. I'll take a look under the hood for those jumpers.


----------



## AndreYew

peaceofmind said:


> If I go to Schiit website and look at the a close up picture of the Gungnir circuit board, I can read this "6A 120V/250V, 50-60HZ" where the power cord connects to the board. And what I see that appears to look like a rectangular black jumper right next to each large transformers. It would make sense financially for Schiit to use power supply transformer with multiple 120V or 250V taps rather then to built two voltage specific power supplies.


 
 Those are not jumpers. They're bridge rectifiers: the first component of a circuit that turns AC into DC.
  
 The label on the power cord jack means the jack itself can handle both voltages, not that the circuit is designed to handle both.


----------



## Peaceofmind

Thanks for that info, will buy a transformer in that case.


----------



## ToTo Man

Apologies if this observation has already been made, because I'll admit that I haven't read all 165 pages of this thread, however I'm going to put my neck on the line and risk ridicule by revealing that in my main stereo system, using SINGLE-ENDED, Bifrost Uber sounds better than Gungnir Multibit.  
  
 I am in a fortunate position to have an old school amplifier that has seamless switching between inputs with no latency or silences, so I can A/B back and forth between two DACs in real-time, making any subtle differences easy to detect.  
  
 I will preface by saying that these two DACs are extremely close sound-wise, and that if I didn't have the facility to A/B back and forth in real time, then I would have no hope of differentiating between the two models.  
  
 However when A/B-ing, Bifrost Uber sounds livelier and more exciting than Gungnir Muiltibit.  Gungnir Mulibit is slightly smoother and more laid back, but ultimately sounds slightly distant and veiled compared to Bifrost Uber.  
  
 Identification of these differences required some concentration, and was made harder due to the fact that Bifrost Uber sounds fractionally louder to my ears than Gungnir Multibit (not by much though, perhaps only 0.5dB max difference), but after accounting for this I remain confident in my findings.
  
  
 I was wondering if anyone else shared this opinion, and had a possible explanation of why Bifrost Uber would sound preferable to Gungnir Multibit?  The only logical explanation I can think of is because I am using the single ended outputs, which are reputed to be worse than balanced (sadly my main system amplifier does not accept balanced inputs so I am unable to put this theory to the test).  Either that or it is just my ears that prefers the sound of Bifrost Uber.  
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## sheldaze

^ Lucky you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I do agree that the Bifrost Uber sounds more lively, and a tad louder. But that's it - in every other conceivable way, the Gungnir Multibit sounds considerably better, to my ears, than does the Uberfrost.
  
 And yes, I'm using it currently in single-ended mode. I will either need to update all my electronics to balanced, or find a different DAC for single-ended use in my stereo system. I'm working on a different DAC option, as I feel the GMB will be permanently connected soon to a Liquid Carbon, in balanced mode.
  
 What style of music do you listen to? I'm not sure what to suggest


----------



## Argo Duck

^ @ToTo Man it really is critical to check SPL levels with either an SPL or multi-meter. I remember comparing two amps and - _by ear_ - getting them equal in volume. This particular pair sounded very similar. Until I took an SPL meter to them!  My by-ear equalization sucked!
  
 But assuming they really are matched within 0.5 dBA as you assert I don't think this finding exposes you to ridicule. There are many, many variables and hence few absolutes. In fact, it's not uncommon to hear of (even sub $1000) components that 'outperform' others "many, many times their price".
  
 And no doubt they do for some listeners with some gear combinations at some points in their journeys. I've been there once or twice. I've also found what sounds good one year may not do the next


----------



## Liu Junyuan

toto man said:


> Apologies if this observation has already been made, because I'll admit that I haven't read all 165 pages of this thread, however I'm going to put my neck on the line and risk ridicule by revealing that in my main stereo system, using SINGLE-ENDED, Bifrost Uber sounds better than Gungnir Multibit.
> 
> I am in a fortunate position to have an old school amplifier that has seamless switching between inputs with no latency or silences, so I can A/B back and forth between two DACs in real-time, making any subtle differences easy to detect.
> 
> ...




Nice comparison, and it is cool you can switch so easily. In addition to what the previous replies already said, I would add that you actually need to be able to switch to the balanced outputs on the GMB as well in order to attribute this to the SE on the GMB. It could just be matter of preference, that you prefer the Bifrost Uber sound, or it could be that your amp and transducers interact better, to your ears, with the "more lively" ds DAC.


----------



## mikoss

andreyew said:


> Those are not jumpers. They're bridge rectifiers: the first component of a circuit that turns AC into DC.
> 
> The label on the power cord jack means the jack itself can handle both voltages, not that the circuit is designed to handle both.



Also, the fusing would be different. Half the current would be producing the same power at double the voltage... Leaving the fuse sized for the lower voltage and applying a higher one means that a fault could destroy your equipment. 

It's kind of silly to make speculations about how products are wired, and then to suggest modifications to people blindly. I understand trying to help people, so the easiest/best way is to simply suggest buying a step down transformer, as suggested above by others. 

I don't understand the hostility towards companies for designing products with one voltage in mind... I would prefer to pay less myself and have an owner who wants to use a different supply foot the bill for buying the transformer. They aren't terribly expensive, and it isn't like Schiit is trying to make anyone buy two models. 

With regards to a more lively sounding presentation, I'm wondering if this is because of a more compressed sounding noise floor. I have a couple of amps that definitely sound more lively themselves, at the cost of overall dynamics. Everything seems to have a bit of snap, whereas comparing vocal presentation allows me to understand where they're less natural sounding. I also have a tough time with the treble of some DS dacs. This is where the Gungnir pulls ahead into deal breaker territory in my opinion. How do you find the vocals and treble in comparison?


----------



## ToTo Man

sheldaze said:


> ^ Lucky you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Quite a wide variety of stuff, mainly melodic rock, folk rock, some easy listening, basically anything that's been well recorded and is not a victim of the loudness wars!
  


argo duck said:


> ^ @ToTo Man it really is critical to check SPL levels with either an SPL or multi-meter. I remember comparing two amps and - _by ear_ - getting them equal in volume. This particular pair sounded very similar. Until I took an SPL meter to them!  My by-ear equalization sucked!
> 
> But assuming they really are matched within 0.5 dBA as you assert I don't think this finding exposes you to ridicule. There are many, many variables and hence few absolutes. In fact, it's not uncommon to hear of (even sub $1000) components that 'outperform' others "many, many times their price".
> 
> And no doubt they do for some listeners with some gear combinations at some points in their journeys. I've been there once or twice. I've also found what sounds good one year may not do the next


 
  
 Point taken regarding SPLs, I'll need to check more closely.  Then again, if Bifrost Uber is more 'lively' in certain frequencies, then you would naturally expect this to push up overall SPL levels, hence SPL matching becomes a moot issue (i.e. "chicken or egg" argument)?
  


liu junyuan said:


> Nice comparison, and it is cool you can switch so easily. In addition to what the previous replies already said, I would add that you actually need to be able to switch to the balanced outputs on the GMB as well in order to attribute this to the SE on the GMB. It could just be matter of preference, that you prefer the Bifrost Uber sound, or it could be that your amp and transducers interact better, to your ears, with the "more lively" ds DAC.


 
  
 I've listened to the balanced outputs on the GMB through the Mjolnir 2 and ETHER headphones and it does sound better than the SE.  Hard to put into words but the overall sound is more floaty and holographic and spacious, particularly in the mids.  But this comparison is pretty useless unless I pull my Bifrost Uber out of my main system and connect it to my headphone rig!
  


mikoss said:


> With regards to a more lively sounding presentation, I'm wondering if this is because of a more compressed sounding noise floor. I have a couple of amps that definitely sound more lively themselves, at the cost of overall dynamics. Everything seems to have a bit of snap, whereas comparing vocal presentation allows me to understand where they're less natural sounding. I also have a tough time with the treble of some DS dacs. This is where the Gungnir pulls ahead into deal breaker territory in my opinion. How do you find the vocals and treble in comparison?


 
 The vocals and treble do seem slightly clearer and more 'up front' on the BifrostUber and with more ambience.  Perhaps I'm mistaking this for compression, which would be embarrassing as I am anti-compression!


----------



## sheldaze

Diving back into my cranium, I do recall now that the difference was subtle. That is, I have low-end amp and headphone collection (to be upgraded later), and I only heard a significant difference on one of my four primary headphones. For example, I did not hear much difference on my HD650, which already sounded fantastic to my ears through the Uberfrost. The difference was much more noticeable, however, on my speaker system, which has vastly higher grade components. It was also fantastic on that one headphone, which was the first I randomly selected to use.
  
 If you plan to eventually move in the direction of the Ether and Mjolner grade of components, I think the DAC upgrade makes sense.


----------



## ToTo Man

sheldaze said:


> Diving back into my cranium, I do recall now that the difference was subtle. That is, I have low-end amp and headphone collection (to be upgraded later), and I only heard a significant difference on one of my four primary headphones. For example, I did not hear much difference on my HD650, which already sounded fantastic to my ears through the Uberfrost. The difference was much more noticeable, however, on my speaker system, which has vastly higher grade components. It was also fantastic on that one headphone, which was the first I randomly selected to use.
> 
> If you plan to eventually move in the direction of the Ether and Mjolner grade of components, I think the DAC upgrade makes sense.


 
 I currently have Ether[size=x-small], Gungnir Multibit and Mjolnir 2 on home trial.  I think Ether sounds fantastic, by far the best headphone I have heard to date (but that's probably not saying much as I've not heard that many high-end headphones!)  My main reference headphone until now has been Sennheiser HD600 but Ether is a clear step up in clarity, soundstage and transparency (to be expected of course given the huge price difference!).  HD600 is still amazing for the price though.  Ether has sounded stunning on every source/amp I have tried with it, even directly through my iPod it is excellent!  Sadly I cannot afford to upgrade (yet!)...[/size]
  
 [size=x-small]I have tested [GMB -> single ended -> Mjo2 -> Ether] vs [GMB -> balanced -> Mjo2 -> Ether], and after correcting for the significant SPL difference, balanced sounds better with more 3D presence and ambience in the mids, put simply it is like moving forward a row or two in a concert hall, a very subtle effect but noticeable nonetheless.  [/size]
  
 [size=x-small]I have also repeated the same test but taking the single ended output of Mjo2 into my hifi power amp and main speakers, and again [GMB -> balanced -> Mjo2] sounds better than [GMB -> single ended -> Mjo2] with the same differences I observed when comparing the two methods of connection using the Ether headphones.  I wish I had a balanced hifi power amp to test the FULL potential of GMB and Mjo2 using balanced throughout the entire chain.[/size]


----------



## reddog

That was a very informative impression , thanks for sharing. And agree the ETHER sounds superb out of the Gungnir Multibit and Mjolnir 2. I hope you have a good day jamming out.


----------



## Peaceofmind

Sheldaze is right, you can hear more clues on your home stereo system than on headphones. Here is another part of Mike Moffat quote "Those users with good time domain response speakers are well equipped to hear spatial cues should be impressed if imaging is a priority for them. Such cues are far more difficult to hear on headphone systems, but should be audible with the best phones."


----------



## Wildcatsare1

matttcg said:


> Update on my problems with drop out over usb. I received the Wyrd this morning and the music has been playing for about four hours with perfect playback. Also, call me crazy but resolution is better and the noise floor is noticeably lower. :blink:   I know that there are bias involved here but I swear I hear an improvement using the Wyrd.
> 
> Even with a new pc built from scratch with a high end Corsair psu, I still got drop prior to adding the Wyrd. I'm not sure how I feel about a $1250 dac that drops out at least once an hour over usb. My something is wrong with the usb board in my GMB and the Wyrd is able to alleviate the problem. Not sure. I do know that the sound is the GMB is the real deal and the best improvement I've made to my chain in a long time.
> 
> At this point I'm glad to be listening and enjoying music again frustration free.




Glad to hear that your back in business Matt! That Wyrd is a magic little box, ain't it (grammar thrash purposeful).


----------



## thomascrown

wahsmoh said:


> Nothing wrong with that idea. I use a Goldsource 220V-120V step down transformer for my 1995 EAD CD-1000 Series III (240V) that I bought from Europe. It's better than going through the effort to get it modified and switched.


 
 Absolutely, at the beginning I wasn't happy about the idea as most of the trasformers are big, bulky and heavy, but after I bought the Taurus (I couldn't wait any longer the LC ), it's the only solution I have. I just wonder if they could introduce some noise or buzz.


----------



## kdejonge

I actually asked Schiit this a while ago:


> As long as it is a transformer converter and not a switching supply it won’t change anything sonically.


 
 So should be good.


----------



## thomascrown

kdejonge said:


> I actually asked Schiit this a while ago:
> So should be good.


 
 Lovely!


----------



## Barry S

matttcg said:


> ...I'm not sure how I feel about a $1250 dac that drops out at least once an hour over usb. My something is wrong with the usb board in my GMB and the Wyrd is able to alleviate the problem...




There's something wrong here--I'd still send your Gungnir in for service (and likely USB board replacement). The USB Gen 2 board shouldn't need a Wyrd (or any other accessory) to function correctly. Sometimes, the mindset around here makes my head spin. It's great that the Wyrd fixed the issue, but what happens when you want to sell the GMB?


----------



## Ableza

Absolutely.  Quit messing around and get your Gungnir repaired properly.  That's why there are warranties.


----------



## MattTCG

barry s said:


> There's something wrong here--I'd still send your Gungnir in for service (and likely USB board replacement). The USB Gen 2 board shouldn't need a Wyrd (or any other accessory) to function correctly. Sometimes, the mindset around here makes my head spin. It's great that the Wyrd fixed the issue, but what happens when you want to sell the GMB?


 
  
  


ableza said:


> Absolutely.  Quit messing around and get your Gungnir repaired properly.  That's why there are warranties.


 
 Thanks guys and duly noted. I'll get it send in.


----------



## TubemanRQ

shembot said:


> I'm having trouble understanding why this would improve the sound quality based on how the Wyrd works. The Wyrd simply replaces the incoming dirty USB power and replaces it with its own linear power, and it reclocks in the incoming signal with a high-precision crystal oscillator. Once the power and signal come out of the Wyrd, they're already cleaned and reclocked...doing it again would just be throwing away clean power and replacing it with equally clean power and then reclocking an already precisely clocked signal.


 
 I can understand where your thinking is coming from. Yes, the signal is reclocked, AND replaced with a high-quality, very clean, low-noise power supply behind it. The Gungnir also reclocks the incoming data signal with the Adapticlock clock analysis and regeneration system which reclokcs and lowers jitter according to Schiit: "
  
*Adapticlock™: Unique Clock Analysis and Regeneration*
 Both versions of Gungnir include our proprietary Adapticlock system, which provides for both exceptional jitter performance and rock-solid, glitch-free connectivity. Adapticlock analyzes the incoming signal quality and automatically routes it to the best clock regeneration system—either VCXO or VCO-based. And, it does all of this without altering the bit depth or sample rate of your original music."
  
 So, according to your logic, WYRD shouldn't improve the sound quality because the signal is already being reclocked by Gungnir?
  
 I don't want to say your wrong, or I'm right, all I know is, the WYRD improves upon the Gungnir's jitter-reduction/reclocking with the Adapticlock system.
  
 If you look into Theta Digital's Timebase Linque Conditioner (TLC), which was a product Theta Digital produced in the 90's, many audiophile associates of mine were using multiple TLCs back-to-back and having improved sound quality. I think the real question to look into, is, why does data jitter lower sound quality, and how do we lower data jitter in the first place?
  
 ALSO, the Theta TLC had a high-current power supply option, which was around $200 more, which was in addition to the TLC's retail price of around $200 at the time. THAT high-current power supply made the improvements to sound quality with the TLC MUCH MUCH greater! In my system, the TLC made an amazing improvement in sound quality, which is similar to what I hear with WYRD. The high-current power supply option added to my TLC made the improvement VERY SUBSTANTIAL in every aspect of sound reproduction. The TLC was only a SPDIF-based interface, SPDIF in, SPDIF out.


----------



## TubemanRQ

matttcg said:


> Thanks guys and duly noted. I'll get it send in.


 
 You are up and running now, enjoying music. Awesome!!
  
 Question, does your Gungnir's "Get Better Gear" light come on when it is hooked up? Does that light up with the WYRD AND without the WYRD? My gut tells me it probably lights up without the WYRD, and does not light up WITH the WYRD. Just curious....
  
 I still think a dirty power/ high-jitter issue was existant in your system that the WYRD helped to clean up. This allows the Gungir to "lock" onto the incoming data signal better and is benefitted with the reduction in data jitter.
  
 Do you also have an isolation transformer/power conditioner for your system?


----------



## Shembot

tubemanrq said:


> I can understand where your thinking is coming from. Yes, the signal is reclocked, AND replaced with a high-quality, very clean, low-noise power supply behind it. The Gungnir also reclocks the incoming data signal with the Adapticlock clock analysis and regeneration system which reclokcs and lowers jitter according to Schiit: "
> 
> *Adapticlock™: Unique Clock Analysis and Regeneration*
> Both versions of Gungnir include our proprietary Adapticlock system, which provides for both exceptional jitter performance and rock-solid, glitch-free connectivity. Adapticlock analyzes the incoming signal quality and automatically routes it to the best clock regeneration system—either VCXO or VCO-based. And, it does all of this without altering the bit depth or sample rate of your original music."
> ...


 

 You're right about Adapticlock -- Wyrd really _shouldn't _do anything. My understanding is that the 5V on the USB is only used for the handshake, so dirty power shouldn't matter (the Gungnir is powered by its own power supply), and the reclocking shouldn't matter because the Gungnir already has an advanced clock regeneration system. And yet...Wyrd improves Gungnir, not only in my experience or collective community experience, but even in Jason's experience (he says in his chapter on Wyrd that he uses it with his Gungnir/Mjolnir system). 
  
 So I do see your point. If one Wyrd doesn't make sense, then two (or more) Wyrds doesn't really make less sense. While the engineer in me feels silly doing it, I'll have to bring home my Wyrd from work and try two in series at home tonight.


----------



## TubemanRQ

shembot said:


> You're right about Adapticlock -- Wyrd really _shouldn't _do anything. My understanding is that the 5V on the USB is only used for the handshake, so dirty power shouldn't matter (the Gungnir is powered by its own power supply), and the reclocking shouldn't matter because the Gungnir already has an advanced clock regeneration system. And yet...Wyrd improves Gungnir, not only in my experience or collective community experience, but even in Jason's experience (he says in his chapter on Wyrd that he uses it with his Gungnir/Mjolnir system).
> 
> So I do see your point. If one Wyrd doesn't make sense, then two (or more) Wyrds doesn't really make less sense. While the engineer in me feels silly doing it, I'll have to bring home my Wyrd from work and try two in series at home tonight.


 
 Yes, I'd like to hear what your experiment with two WYRDs in series does!  As a side note, I also use several Powervar power conditioners in series, back to back and it sounds better than just using one.
  
 This day and age, everybody has cell phones, most homes are using wifi routers...everything is going wireless and we are being bombarded with more and more RF interference and noise. I feel that anything we can do to lower noise, especially in power supplies and from the incoming AC will improve the sonics of our systems.


----------



## Shembot

tubemanrq said:


> Yes, I'd like to hear what your experiment with two WYRDs in series does!  As a side note, I also use several Powervar power conditioners in series, back to back and it sounds better than just using one.
> 
> This day and age, everybody has cell phones, most homes are using wifi routers...everything is going wireless and we are being bombarded with more and more RF interference and noise. I feel that anything we can do to lower noise, especially in power supplies and from the incoming AC will improve the sonics of our systems.


 

 I haven't tried expensive power conditioning, but I've tried a Tripp Lite Isobar Ultra 8 and a Brickwall, and I found that my system sounds best plugged into my plain Wiremold hospital grade power strip _without_ any filtering or surge suppression. I've done this test over and over with different headphones at different times of day, and I keep coming to the same conclusion. It really shouldn't make any difference, and if it does, you'd think it'd be positive, so it's strange...but it's got me sticking with the regular strip. I'm currently using very nice, effective EMI/RFI shielded power cables, but they don't sound any different than the cords that come with the gear (they just make me feel better). Perhaps I just don't have any real noise issues going on with my power.


----------



## TubemanRQ

shembot said:


> I haven't tried expensive power conditioning, but I've tried a Tripp Lite Isobar Ultra 8 and a Brickwall, and I found that my system sounds best plugged into my plain Wiremold hospital grade power strip _without_ any filtering or surge suppression. I've done this test over and over with different headphones at different times of day, and I keep coming to the same conclusion. It really shouldn't make any difference, and if it does, you'd think it'd be positive, so it's strange...but it's got me sticking with the regular strip. I'm currently using very nice, effective EMI/RFI shielded power cables, but they don't sound any different than the cords that come with the gear (they just make me feel better). Perhaps I just don't have any real noise issues going on with my power.


 
 Yeah, MOST power conditioners are touted as such and really do not do much to address noise on the AC, even more importantly, noise on the neutral line. I have found, in my experience, that Powervar power conditioners are the REAL deal. You can find them relatively inexpensive on Ebay for around $250-$300 or so. If you buy them new, they can run around $2500 or so. I would recommend the 10-amp versions and up. The Powervar ABC1000 and up.
  
 They have a HUGE toroidal isolation transformer, and an industrial-grade pi filter after the isolation. They use heavy gauge wiring. 12 AWG wiring on the toroidal transformer for the 10-amp versions, and 10AWG wiring on the toroidal transformers for the 16-amp and up. They also have a VERY low output impedance, and can legally tie neutral to ground and eliminate noise on the neutral leg because of this.
  
 I cannot listen to my system without my Powervars. Here is aYoutube video describing and demonstrating Powervar's philosophy and how their products work to lower noise on the neutral and hot, compared to a few other products: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOO89uHEprM  this is Part 2, also check out Part 3 which should show on the right.  
  
 Cheers!


----------



## TubemanRQ

peaceofmind said:


> Sheldaze is right, you can hear more clues on your home stereo system than on headphones. Here is another part of Mike Moffat quote "Those users with good time domain response speakers are well equipped to hear spatial cues should be impressed if imaging is a priority for them. Such cues are far more difficult to hear on headphone systems, but should be audible with the best phones."


 
 That is EXACTLY what I hear with GUMB vs D/S Gungnir. Better spatial and ambient cues, along with GOBS and GOBS more inner detail and music "within the music."


----------



## Argo Duck

I agree it seems silly. Yet - certainly in science - silly things sometimes pay off.  for your finding...



shembot said:


> So I do see your point. If one Wyrd doesn't make sense, then two (or more) Wyrds doesn't really make less sense. While the engineer in me feels silly doing it, I'll have to bring home my Wyrd from work and try two in series at home tonight.


----------



## ToddRaymond

tubemanrq said:


> That is EXACTLY what I hear with GUMB vs D/S Gungnir. Better spatial and ambient cues, along with GOBS and GOBS more inner detail and music "within the music."




Good to know, thanks! I just ordered one two nights ago, and I very much look forward to implementing it into both my two channel and headphone setups.

You know, in case you were all wondering.


----------



## RCBinTN

I have about 80-hours on the Gumby and love the sound, but today I sent it back to Schiit Audio for repairs (Gumbye).
  
 Seems I was able to ham-fist the optical connector and break off a piece of the connector to the DAC, so it would no longer accept an optical cable.  Oops.  Played it for awhile on USB and it didn't drop out, but IMO it doesn't sound as good (didn't try it with the Wyrd).  Hope to have it back next week.  I also advised the Schiit Techs about the 5-6 drop-outs I've experienced running on 100% optical input from the Mac, maybe they can find something.  Different problem than what MattTCG experienced.


----------



## Mediahound

rcbintn said:


> I have about 80-hours on the Gumby and love the sound, but today I sent it back to Schiit Audio for repairs (Gumbye).
> 
> Seems I was able to ham-fist the optical connector and break off a piece of the connector to the DAC, so it would no longer accept an optical cable.  Oops.  Played it for awhile on USB and it didn't drop out, but IMO it doesn't sound as good (didn't try it with the Wyrd).  Hope to have it back next week.  I also advised the Schiit Techs about the 5-6 drop-outs I've experienced running on 100% optical input from the Mac, maybe they can find something.  Different problem than what MattTCG experienced.


 

 Sorry that happened. Yeah, note to anyone reading, never force in any connector whether it be optical, usb, or whatever.


----------



## reddog

mediahound said:


> Sorry that happened. Yeah, note to anyone reading, never force in any connector whether it be optical, usb, or whatever.



I started using a gold plated optical cable, so I could easily see how to hook up the optical cable properly. For some reason, I have a difficult tome properly aligning the black optical cable to the whole properly..


----------



## Mediahound

reddog said:


> I started using a gold plated optical cable, so I could easily see how to hook up the optical cable properly. For some reason, I have a difficult tome properly aligning the black optical cable to the whole properly..


 
 It helps to shine a flashlight on it in order to better see the alignment of the curved side of the jack to the plug.


----------



## reddog

mediahound said:


> It helps to shine a flashlight on it in order to better see the alignment of the curved side of the jack to the plug.



Yes using a pin light is a must for most tasks.


----------



## RCBinTN

reddog said:


> Yes using a pin light is a must for most tasks.


 
  
 Yea, I think that was my problem.  I would get the cable lined up (to the hole) and then spin it around until the notches matched.  Not very delicate.  But, I think it broke when I removed the cable with a bit excess and side force.  I asked the Schiit rep if they can make the DAC connector out of metal so it's more robust, the answer was no.  So, will just have to be more careful going forward.  The optical connection is probably the most delicate of all the connectors.


----------



## mikoss

Finally home to hear my MB Gungnir, which has been powered up for 170 hours.
  
 Sounds like it has a huge set of balls... it hits hard, but it also has an extremely elegant, clear presentation. A touch of warmth as well, but a very even keeled presentation. 
  
 I've never heard bass sound this tight and deep on the HD-650's. Details are starting to translate from a different place as well. I have to give this DAC a lot more ear time to wrap my head around it. I'm thinking this could be a match made in heaven with the Cavalli LC, but I would really have to hear... seems to me it would really bring out what the LC does best. Just my initial impressions.


----------



## schneller

Are people using the XLR or RCA outputs? Please compare sound signature. Thanks.


----------



## cskippy

schneller said:


> Are people using the XLR or RCA outputs? Please compare sound signature. Thanks.


 
 Direct from the man himself:
  
  


> Originally Posted by *Baldr*
> 
> Any rumor that the SE out on the Gumby has been gimped is pure bullschiit.  The implementation is as on the Yggy, where the individual balanced outputs are summed algebraically.  This inherently cancels common mode artifacts.


----------



## Mediahound

cskippy said:


> Direct from the man himself:


 

 Is it the same for the MJ2?


----------



## cskippy

I have no idea.  That would be a question for Schiit.  Just email them, they are very responsive and informative.


----------



## schneller

cskippy said:


> Direct from the man himself:


 
  
 I saw that.
  
 But that doesn't change the opinion of several (many?) here who have compared the output of the XLR and SE outputs and have posted their (negative) opinions.


----------



## MattTCG

schneller said:


> I saw that.
> 
> But that doesn't change the opinion of several (many?) here who have compared the output of the XLR and SE outputs and have posted their (negative) opinions.


 
  
 Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've compared the xlr and se out on the GMB and find them both outstanding. I can not pass a blind A/B test when the levels are matched. So I have no sense that i'm "downgrading" when using this dac over the RCA outs. ymmv


----------



## sheldaze

Not to change topics or anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I was A-B-C listening to three different DAC through my system. I came across a song I truly enjoyed, and stopped to listen to it just on the GMB. The song is by J.S. Bach: PRELUDE from the Unaccompanied Cello Suite No. 1 in G Major, BMW 1007. It sounded so visceral that it reminded me more of modern Hip-Hop than what I've become accustomed to hearing in terms of recorded Classical music. It made me reflect that there was a time, prior to recorded music, that people would listen to such things only live. And I suppose, Bach was the Pop or Hip-Hop artist of his day.
  
 Anyway, just saying through the GMB, the sound changed into a very dramatic, energetic performance. I like


----------



## mikoss

matttcg said:


> Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've compared the xlr and se out on the GMB and find them both outstanding. I can not pass a blind A/B test when the levels are matched. So I have no sense that i'm "downgrading" when using this dac over the RCA outs. ymmv


 
 Which amp were you testing on Matt?
  
 My opinion of blind testing kind of echoes what was posted recently around HF and IF... I find that spending a decent amount of time with gear, then swapping to a different setup and comparing initial impressions to be the best indicator. (Apologies to objectivists who insist on dbt, but this seems far more revealing to myself).
  
 I plan to eventually (before xmas) buy that XLR to SE transformer setup, and feed the Zana Deux which is not balanced from the XLR outputs of the MB Gungnir myself. I believe that the XLR outputs of the MB Gungnir have potential to sound subjectively better than the single ended outputs, however I would not be surprised if the difference is very minimal, like you say.
  
 I will say that the I also agree about the SE outputs of the Gungnir. They are not flawed, or gimped. Probably a statement with poor wording, or just unintentionally ignorant.
  
 One other point; I'm actually scratching my head wondering why anyone would suggest to buy a warmer sounding DAC over Gumby... the MB Gungnir has plenty of warmth. If anything, the Yggdrasil is an example of the perfect DAC to buy to feed tube gear; whereas I am personally finding that the warmth of the Gumby, and a tube amp accounts for the difference in ability to resolve micro detailing between the two setups. 
  
 My advice- if you are feeding a good tube amplifier and can afford the Yggdrasil, absolutely go for it. If you are thinking that the Gumby will sound too sharp/resolving/not "musical" or warm enough, I don't think you would have any regrets going for the Gumby... I would take it any day over a DAC that sounds warmer and offers slightly less resolution. The Gumby pulls off a hell of a lot of resolution, while still presenting an overall warmth.
  
  
 Last comment - it's hilarious, but I've never felt as compelled to just crank my music and dance as I do with the Gumby. It's just an exhilarating, fun experience. Thoroughly enjoyable.


----------



## MattTCG

My testing for GMB was done with the cma800r x2 used as dual mono blocks. Then for single ended I just used one of the Que style amps.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've compared the xlr and se out on the GMB and find them both outstanding. I can not pass a blind A/B test when the levels are matched. So I have no sense that i'm "downgrading" when using this dac over the RCA outs. ymmv



+1 Well said sir. I likewise find the XLR and SE out of my GMB to be equally good.


----------



## sheldaze

mikoss said:


> Last comment - it's hilarious, but I've never felt as compelled to just crank my music and dance as I do with the Gumby. It's just an exhilarating, fun experience. Thoroughly enjoyable.


 
 Agreed,
  
 It was whilst standing, listening to the Bach this morning, I felt the urge to move. Hence I made the comment regarding the energy flow, more like modern music than what I was used to listening to. I've never felt the energy of a singular Cello in a recording translate into "dance" or desire to move, myself.
  
 Very odd, true - but I do have odd sense of Classical music. I get inspired to run faster, while listening to Beethoven piano sonatas in my head


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Bach & Beethoven go together 

In terms of your "dance" comment I did read somewhere Bach's cello sonatas are essentially dances - forget where.


----------



## AndreYew

argo duck said:


> ^ Bach & Beethoven go together
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Almost all of the movements of the cello suites are named after dance forms: allemande, gigue, sarabande, etc. but Bach being Bach, he took them to the next level musically, so often the rhythms of the original forms are hard to hear. He didn't mean for them to be danced to, but they did come from dance forms, and he was inspired by them.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Thanks...they have been among my favorite pieces for 20 years and I didn't know that!


----------



## Baldr

Slightly OT - in the 70's I used to have a bumper sticker (vinyl, pre-digi era) that said Mahler grooves.


----------



## kstuart

baldr said:


> Slightly OT - in the 70's I used to have a bumper sticker (vinyl, pre-digi era) that said Mahler grooves.


 

 I'm currently half way through the 1974 film "Mahler" (ran out of time and will return to it sometime this weekend).  Much better than I expected - and I was pleasantly surprised to find that it featured almost entirely Mahler music in every scene, conducted by my favorite conductor - Bernard Haitink.  I think it is an excellent introduction to Mahler, because the music is accompanied by the sort of visuals that inspired him for that piece.  (There is also a bit of surreal 70's cinema that keep it from being dry, dull and academic.)


----------



## TubemanRQ

shembot said:


> You're right about Adapticlock -- Wyrd really _shouldn't _do anything. My understanding is that the 5V on the USB is only used for the handshake, so dirty power shouldn't matter (the Gungnir is powered by its own power supply), and the reclocking shouldn't matter because the Gungnir already has an advanced clock regeneration system. And yet...Wyrd improves Gungnir, not only in my experience or collective community experience, but even in Jason's experience (he says in his chapter on Wyrd that he uses it with his Gungnir/Mjolnir system).
> 
> So I do see your point. If one Wyrd doesn't make sense, then two (or more) Wyrds doesn't really make less sense. While the engineer in me feels silly doing it, I'll have to bring home my Wyrd from work and try two in series at home tonight.


 
 Anxiously awaiting to hear the results of your experiment with two WYRDs in series!


----------



## Brubacca

A couple of things...
  
 Does the Gungnir Multibit sound like real instruments?  I was a drummer and am very sensitive to the accurate sound of Stick hitting Drum Head.  I have only heard this with a $7,000 CD player (which I can't afford).  Does GMB get the sound correct?
  
 Also, if 2 or three Wyred in series is helping the sound you may want to try a couple of Ferrite Chokes on the USB cable.  One at each end, they are cheap and available at Radio Shack.  Schiit doesn't even say that one wyred improves the sound.


----------



## Shembot

tubemanrq said:


> Anxiously awaiting to hear the results of your experiment with two WYRDs in series!


 

 I have both Wyrds at home now and I've gone back and forth a little, but it's inconclusive so far. I'll update when I have time to test more thoroughly.
  
  
  


> Does the Gungnir Multibit sound like real instruments?  I was a drummer and am very sensitive to the accurate sound of Stick hitting Drum Head.  I have only heard this with a $7,000 CD player (which I can't afford).  Does GMB get the sound correct?
> 
> Also, if 2 or three Wyred in series is helping the sound you may want to try a couple of Ferrite Chokes on the USB cable.  One at each end, they are cheap and available at Radio Shack.  Schiit doesn't even say that one wyred improves the sound.


 
  
 GungnirMB will reproduce the timbre of real instruments quite accurately. The bigger issue would be whether your headphones can do so.
  
 Regarding ferrites: I've used quality USB cables with ferrites. They work just fine, but they don't sound any different from USB cables without ferrites. The USB standard recommends ferrites *only* be used if there are known problems because they degrade the signal, so in the absence of any demonstrable problems in my system, I use USB cables without ferrites.


----------



## mikoss

brubacca said:


> A couple of things...
> 
> Does the Gungnir Multibit sound like real instruments?  I was a drummer and am very sensitive to the accurate sound of Stick hitting Drum Head.  I have only heard this with a $7,000 CD player (which I can't afford).  Does GMB get the sound correct?



I was a drummer as well, and mentioned previously how I immediately noticed how the treble response of the Yggdrasil had cleaned up what I'd been hearing from digital music for years. Percussion finally sounded natural and correct- open hi-hats, closed hi-hats, cymbals - no more crunchy digital garbage, just a clean, clear response. 

I couldn't afford the Yggdrasil, so I bought a vintage 90's Angstrom DAC with an R-2R chipset, also designed by Mike Moffatt. The treble sounded much the same on this DAC, although overall the Yggy was light years ahead. I waited anxiously for the MB Gungnir, and I can finally say that I'm glad I went for it. 

It offers the same natural sounding response, although I do find the MB Gungnir to be warmer overall than the Yggdrasil. I like a bit of warmth, however I do believe that DACs shouldn't be noticeably warm. Just my opinion and a small nitpick of the MB Gungnir. 

I also read others suggesting to go other routes because the MB Gungnir wasn't warm enough... I disagree. Added warmth means less overall resolution and ability to accurately present details. The MB Gungnir hits hard- the bass is super tight and deep... While at the same time, the midrange sounds extremely liquid smooth and full bodied. Vocals are also crystal clear and resolved; I imagine that the comments made about the Gungnir sounding somewhat shouty are because of this clarity. This would have to do in my opinion with the source material... If the vocals are mastered to be up front and personal, you definitely get that presentation. As for percussion, it has the same ability as the Yggdrasil to sound natural and resolved, however I do find the slight warmth to gloss over a touch of the details found in the Yggdrasil presentation- this is replaced with an overall sense of clarity, linear response, and smoothness. Not a bad thing, and if you've never heard the Yggdrasil, you would never know what the source was capable of capturing. 

TLDR; Yes, absolutely. This is the technology for natural sounding percussion. R-2R in general offers this, and multibit with the filter developed by Mike Moffatt really shines through. All in my opinion.


----------



## TubemanRQ

mikoss said:


> I was a drummer as well, and mentioned previously how I immediately noticed how the treble response of the Yggdrasil had cleaned up what I'd been hearing from digital music for years. Percussion finally sounded natural and correct- open hi-hats, closed hi-hats, cymbals - no more crunchy digital garbage, just a clean, clear response.
> 
> I couldn't afford the Yggdrasil, so I bought a vintage 90's Angstrom DAC with an R-2R chipset, also designed by Mike Moffatt. The treble sounded much the same on this DAC, although overall the Yggy was light years ahead. I waited anxiously for the MB Gungnir, and I can finally say that I'm glad I went for it.
> 
> ...


 
 I concur!  What has always bothered me also, about digital, is the high frequency hardness, much like a strained portrayal of high frequency material. Not natural sounding, but after awhile you get used to it. Of course, I was listening to a Behringer DCX2496 because my system is entirely active using active digital crossovers, with ten channels of amplification, in a 5-way two-channel stereo setup. This is also in comparison to the D/S Gungnir, whose top end was MUCH MUCH more improved over the Behringer, but still had a hard edge to the highs that is hard to describe, until I didn't hear that, but instead the naturalness of the GUMBY.
  
 The FIRST thing I noticed about the MB Gungnir is the relaxed and yet highly resolving, natural aspect of the high frequency reproduction. I just got done listening to the ENTIRE CD of Andreas Vollenweider "Magic Harp."  Track 14 is Moonday, recorded live in Tokyo in 1987. WOW, it sounded LIVE, like I was perhaps 6 or 7 rows back, center stage.
  
 Since the Gungnir multibit, I have sat down and found myself listening to ENTIRE ripped-tohard-drive CD collections, lossless WAV or AIFF of course. Before the MB Gungnir (GUMBY) I would upgrade my sytem here and there, listen to a few familiar tracks to see how much "better" it sounded. I never sat and just listened to ENTIRE CDs one after another like I do now.


----------



## Brubacca

Thanks. I had read your post, but just needed to hear it again. I know my Amp can resolve. Now i just need to determine if Gungnir MB or Yggdrasil is a better match for my Tube Amp... Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum. Gungnir MB is more my price range and since the Rogue is not a syrupy presentation the Gungnir may still be a good fit.


----------



## TubemanRQ

brubacca said:


> A couple of things...
> 
> Does the Gungnir Multibit sound like real instruments?  I was a drummer and am very sensitive to the accurate sound of Stick hitting Drum Head.  I have only heard this with a $7,000 CD player (which I can't afford).  Does GMB get the sound correct?
> 
> Also, if 2 or three Wyred in series is helping the sound you may want to try a couple of Ferrite Chokes on the USB cable.  One at each end, they are cheap and available at Radio Shack.  Schiit doesn't even say that one wyred improves the sound.


 
 Schiit's website definitely stays out of the "WYRD improves the sound" territory. They choose to stay objective and simply offer WYRD for lowering the noise floor of the USB power supply, and reclocking the USB data feed.
  
 In my system, three WYRDs in series sounds best. And that is after extensive power conditioning via 4 Powervar 16-amp and 20-amp power conditioners! I feel the weak link is the consumer-grade Asus motherboard's onboard power supply caps, resistors, etc. that my audio PC feeds the signal out of that the WYRDs really clean up.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

brubacca said:


> Schiit doesn't even say that one Wyrd improves the sound.


 
  
 We don't say that ANY of our equipment improves the sound, because we consider that to be a hard sell, speculative, and in poor taste: schiit.com/about/principles
  
 We leave subjective assessments to owners and reviewers. We do not have ANY salespeople or anyone else who will promise audio nirvana.
  
 Yes, that makes us a very strange company.


----------



## jfoxvol

jason stoddard said:


> We don't say that ANY of our equipment improves the sound, because we consider that to be a hard sell, speculative, and in poor taste: schiit.com/about/principles
> 
> We leave subjective assessments to owners and reviewers. We do not have ANY salespeople or anyone else who will promise audio nirvana.
> 
> Yes, that makes us a very strange company.


 
 READ THE BOOK.  It's not dianetics, guys.  But there is some discussion on this exact thing.


----------



## mikoss

jason stoddard said:


> We don't say that ANY of our equipment improves the sound, because we consider that to be a hard sell, speculative, and in poor taste: schiit.com/about/principles
> 
> We leave subjective assessments to owners and reviewers. We do not have ANY salespeople or anyone else who will promise audio nirvana.


 
 But if you did, they'd be called Schiitheads...


----------



## TubemanRQ

jason stoddard said:


> We don't say that ANY of our equipment improves the sound, because we consider that to be a hard sell, speculative, and in poor taste: schiit.com/about/principles
> 
> We leave subjective assessments to owners and reviewers. We do not have ANY salespeople or anyone else who will promise audio nirvana.
> 
> Yes, that makes us a very strange company.


 

 Strange indeed, and I LIKEY!!!!
  
 Every time I have emailed Schiit's customer service, they have ALWAYS maintained this posture to NOT speculate or say one way or the other how their products will sound in my system, and I really appreciate that! Their customer service is AMAZING, very nimble, fast to respond, and, well, they got their Schiit together!!!


----------



## Brubacca

Actually I am a customer owning a Wyred and a SYS. I was just pointing out that they do not claim any sonic improvement,


----------



## dmhenley

brubacca said:


> A couple of things...
> 
> Does the Gungnir Multibit sound like real instruments?  I was a drummer and am very sensitive to the accurate sound of Stick hitting Drum Head.  I have only heard this with a $7,000 CD player (which I can't afford).  Does GMB get the sound correct?
> 
> Also, if 2 or three Wyred in series is helping the sound you may want to try a couple of Ferrite Chokes on the USB cable.  One at each end, they are cheap and available at Radio Shack.  Schiit doesn't even say that one wyred improves the sound.


 
 I've come from very modest components to the Gungnir mb, and with my current system I am getting the most natural presentation of live acoustic instruments yet. I spent years playing and know the touch, texture, and shove of an un-mic'd kit. This is as close as I've come to feeling that kind of energy, listening at home.


----------



## johndean

jason stoddard said:


> We don't say that ANY of our equipment improves the sound, because we consider that to be a hard sell, speculative, and in poor taste: schiit.com/about/principles
> 
> We leave subjective assessments to owners and reviewers. We do not have ANY salespeople or anyone else who will promise audio nirvana.
> 
> Yes, that makes us a very strange company.


 
 But the Yggy means the Tree of Life! Doesn't that imply an aura of audio otherworldliness! 
  
 Just kidding Jason. Keep making great products and I'll keep buying.I just hope I don't end up like the customer from hell 
 you had who redirected that Fed Ex shipment back to himself  after you cancelled it.LOL.


----------



## RCBinTN

kstuart said:


> I'm currently half way through the 1974 film "Mahler" (ran out of time and will return to it sometime this weekend).  Much better than I expected - and I was pleasantly surprised to find that it featured almost entirely Mahler music in every scene, conducted by my favorite conductor - Bernard Haitink.  I think it is an excellent introduction to Mahler, because the music is accompanied by the sort of visuals that inspired him for that piece.  (There is also a bit of surreal 70's cinema that keep it from being dry, dull and academic.)


 
  
 I am very interested in this movie, but the reviews indicate the DVD's released in the US are of poor visual and audio quality.  Do you find that to be true?  The movie is listed at US$38 on Amazon.  Thanks for your help -
  
 RCBinTN


----------



## kstuart

DVR-ed from a premium movie channel showing.  So I have no idea about the disks.  Also, older movies are often available to stream from services like Netflix.


----------



## RCBinTN

kstuart said:


> DVR-ed from a premium movie channel showing.  So I have no idea about the disks.  Also, older movies are often available to stream from services like Netflix.


 
  
 Thanks for the tip.  I'll check out Netflix.


----------



## dmhenley

I have some more impressions now that I've settled in with the new gear. I swapped amps recently, so was adjusting to it's more linear presentation. I went from a PL amp with 6CA7-Z's to my Bottlehead set, so midrange textures were recessed in comparison. Not a bad thing - just different. Anyhow, here's my update -
  
 I've spent extended time with only a handful of dacs - all under $500 - at home, so don't have a wealth of experience for comparison. I must rely on my memory to compare the Gmb, since the others are not currently in house. As you would expect  (_based on Schiits reputation for high performance gear_), the Gmb far outperforms these dacs, but there is something more here. Of course, the design is different from those dacs, and it is very much apparent, even at first listen.
  
 I fall back on my experience playing music - live in acoustic settings - as a reference for comparison. Of course, this is subjective, and a personal choice. If I have a goal with system building, it's to get as close to the recorded event as I can - to gain a high level of emotional engagement. I suppose I have a purist streak, so go for set amps and high sensitivity speakers - fewer components the better. I like to be immersed in to music, and try to avoid this type of forensic analysis, but it's the only way to provide useful feedback. I do most of my critical listening through speakers.
  
*Short story:* if you are serious about listening to music, desire an immersive, honest, engaging experience - and digital audio is your source - this is a fantastic contender.
 There are many technical reasons why the Gungnir mb sounds so much like music, but I am not qualified to discuss them. There are others who will do that for you.
 Use the 15 day return (5% transaction_ fee)_ window to audition one, and I'd bet it is a challenge to send it packing. While this is not inexpensive gear, I would call it a bargain based on my limited time with it.
  
 On to the music.
 There is _gravity_ to the Gmbs delivery. The lower mids have a tactile presence, and bass extends deep, but both are so textured and defined that I wouldn't choose descriptions another than...linear. Neutral. A true neutral - not detailed because upper freqs are boosted.  This gravity is not only attributed to the stellar low frequency output, but to the soundstage solidity, definition and depth.
  
 For instance, with rock music, the drums often anchor the tune, and there is the inevitability of the downbeat when everything comes together - rhythm, tone, volume - Timing, and spatial cues. This is true for great drummers, and true for the Gmb - it is transferring that irresistible pulse to the listener. No small feat. There's been a lot of chatter about the incredible amount of detail the Gmb reveals - it's true, and this ability combined with others (texture, tone and touch) equals an ecstatic listening experience.
  
 Layering of instruments within the stage is remarkable, and it holds up with complex material. There's an openness that appeals to me on a deep level.
 And, the energy is palpable.
  
 This grin inducing, contagious energy is transferred to the listener when there aren't distractions. Like distortion. High frequency distortion, digital hash, etc - it's like too much hot sauce on your plate - drowning all the earthy flavors of those key ingredients. It masks those lovely mids, natural highs, and commanding low end. And, the space in between vanishes. The Gmb, with the right material, delivers this kind of uninterrupted flow.
  
 Rhythm and momentum are tangible - again, with the right recording there is a liquidity and flow. I think this is due in part to the Gmbs neutrality and timing. No frequency spikes or subtle timing shifts that interrupt the rhythm and drive of the tune.This presentation isn't created by the overlay of the Gmbs character on to the music. Again, neutral. The recording is revealed as it is, or as close as I'll get today.
  
 I'm stopping here. I could give more examples, and reference specific songs, but I've had enough of me. I expect I'll live with the Gungnir multibit for a long time to come.
 This is the most natural, dynamic and musical system I've had at home.


----------



## mikoss

Nice description. The very first thing I wrote was a very linear, resolving sound. I think you've elaborated even more on the same impressions. Truly a great DAC.


----------



## gevorg

Just posted a mini review/impressions of Gumby here:

http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-gungnir/reviews/14079


----------



## Liu Junyuan

gevorg said:


> Just posted a mini review/impressions of Gumby here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-gungnir/reviews/14079




Nice review: short and sweet. I also appreciated your comparisons to other DACs. You got a black one!


----------



## schneller

gevorg said:


> Just posted a mini review/impressions of Gumby here:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-gungnir/reviews/14079


 
  
 You mention the Audio GD product in the opening text but nowhere else. How does the GMB stack up? And is the NFB-28 better or worse than the DAC-19 (10th Anniversary Edition)?
  


> The sigma-delta Gungnir is a good DAC overall, but relatively to Audio-GD NFB-28 & Matrix X-Sabre DAC, the sigma-delta Gungnir has a more noticeable "digititis" that sounds too aggressive/harsh, especially with HD80


 
  
 I also feel you should knock down the "value" score or the GMB as it needs a $150+ Regen to reach its full potential.
  
 Did you review the GMB using the SE or XLR outputs? Did you compare the two outputs?
  


> If only someone would design a USB DAC interface that would make transport jitter/voodoo/etc irrelevant, as long as bits come in bitperfect.


 
  
 I believe this is the Chord 2Qute? I guess you haven't heard it.


----------



## gevorg

schneller said:


> gevorg said:
> 
> 
> > Just posted a mini review/impressions of Gumby here:
> ...




I do not own the NFB-28 anymore so I cannot do a direct/specific comparison, but back when I compared it to Matrix, they sounded very similar, with Matrix being a bit better. Gumby is clearly better than both. I haven't heard the DAC-19 10th, but it would be an apple to orange comparison with the Sabre based NFB-28. The Audio-GD PCM1704 DACs are smoother and more mellow sounding DACs, not necessarily better or worse, just different. On the other hand, Gumby and Yggy were able to improve on Sabre by staying neutral without added smoothness/etc. This is something Schiit AKM based DACs couldn't accomplish.




schneller said:


> I also feel you should knock down the "value" score or the GMB as it needs a $150+ Regen to reach its full potential.




My take of the value score is the stock performance you get for the asking price. At $1250 and relatively to competition, stock Gumby is a very high value DAC. The fact that its performance can be improved with a Regen is even better.




schneller said:


> Did you review the GMB using the SE or XLR outputs? Did you compare the two outputs?




Only XLR.




schneller said:


> gevorg said:
> 
> 
> > If only someone would design a USB DAC interface that would make transport jitter/voodoo/etc irrelevant, as long as bits come in bitperfect.
> ...




Not the 2Qute, but some time back I compared Chord Hugo to Auralic Vega, and Vega was the better DAC.


----------



## porridgecup

Sent my Gungnir in for the multibit upgrade and received it the other day.
  
 Definitely an awesome improvement. It's really hard to describe exactly _how_ it sounds different, but things do sound more musical and more enjoyable.
  
 My Uptone REGEN also came in yesterday. The GMB sounds fantastic with or without it, but it sounds better with it.


----------



## johndean

porridgecup said:


> Sent my Gungnir in for the multibit upgrade and received it the other day.
> 
> Definitely an awesome improvement. It's really hard to describe exactly _how_ it sounds different, but things do sound more musical and more enjoyable.
> 
> My Uptone REGEN also came in yesterday. The GMB sounds fantastic with or without it, but it sounds better with it.


 
 Yeah ,the 500 buck upgrade was the best audio upgrade Ive ever done. 
  
 1,250 for the multibit Gungnir is a freakin steal imho. 
  
 I have listened to a ton of dacs and this is the best dac under 2K .Period


----------



## kenman345

Anyone opened up a GMB yet? I feel like maybe the hint about RMAF might be USB Gen 3 module in the GMB and Bifrosts....


----------



## earnmyturns

kenman345 said:


> Anyone opened up a GMB yet? I feel like maybe the hint about RMAF might be USB Gen 3 module in the GMB and Bifrosts....


 
 What's so exciting about USB 3 from a sound quality point of view?


----------



## kenman345

earnmyturns said:


> What's so exciting about USB 3 from a sound quality point of view?


 
 Not entirely sure since I have not read any comparisons between the other versions since it does not exist in anything besides the Yggy


----------



## XenHeadFi

kenman345 said:


> Not entirely sure since I have not read any comparisons between the other versions since it does not exist in anything besides the Yggy


 
 The Yggy does not have USB 3. The Yggy has Gen 3 (3rd upgrade) of Schiit's USB 2.0 module.
  
 From the Yggy manual: "3 USB Input. This is a USB digital input. Connect to your computer source with a short (2m or less), USB 2.0-rated cable."


----------



## Mediahound

Are you all leaving your GuMBy on all the time? I haven't yet heard if that for sure improves it like it does with the Yggy.


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## mikoss

Yep, I've heard 48 hours is all it takes for the Gumby to be warmed up. I've left mine on, but will be turning it off/on in a couple of weeks. Just on vacation in the UK right now, so I can give impressions when I return.


----------



## AudioBear

I never turn mine off but I don't actually believe any of this burn in or warm-up mythology.  Circuits almost always fail with the start-up surge so leaving it on is a good idea anyway.  In my research lab the only instruments we ever turned off were those with things like Deuterium lamps which had a finite lifetime, but even these we wouldn't turn off unless we were done with it for the day.  Almost all electronics are better off being left on.  All of this said we also had instruments which required a warm-up because there were thermal effects and they needed time to come to equilibrium. I have not spent 10 sec trying to listen to Gumby cold versus hot.  Don't care, never will.


----------



## Mediahound

audiobear said:


> I never turn mine off but I don't actually believe any of this burn in or warm-up mythology.  Circuits almost always fail with the start-up surge so leaving it on is a good idea anyway.  In my research lab the only instruments we ever turned off were those with things like Deuterium lamps which had a finite lifetime, but even these we wouldn't turn off unless we were done with it for the day.  Almost all electronics are better off being left on.  All of this said we also had instruments which required a warm-up because there were thermal effects and they needed time to come to equilibrium. I have not spent 10 sec trying to listen to Gumby cold versus hot.  Don't care, never will.




20 watts all the time though.

I guess I'll leave in on unless I'm pretty sure I won't use it for like a day.


----------



## schneller

Does anyone use the GMB with SE/RCA output to an integrated amp/preamp?


----------



## money4me247

just curious if there is any marker for mb vs s/d gungnirs. thank you!


----------



## cskippy

schneller said:


> Does anyone use the GMB with SE/RCA output to an integrated amp/preamp?


 
 I have my Gumby hooked up to a Project Ember as a preamp, then to my Spec 2 power amp.  Sounds fantastic!


----------



## Stillhart

money4me247 said:


> just curious if there is any marker for mb vs s/d gungnirs. thank you!


 
  
 Small sticker on the back tells you it's multibit.


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## AudioBear

Listenting to it proves it's awfully good so it must be multibit....


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## murrays

audiobear said:


> Listenting to it proves it's awfully good so it must be multibit....


 
  
 You left the smiley off.


----------



## AudioBear

Right, thanks.


----------



## ToddRaymond

Got my new (black) Gungnir Multibit connected, and Ho Lee Schiit!!! @baldr is the digital effin' maestro! I can't wait to listen to everything! Got it connected to my two channel system. (Also got a fancy new power amplifier.) Did some listening last night with my special lady, and we teared up from the beauty of it all at one point. It will more than do until I can afford a Yggdrasil.


----------



## sheldaze

turdski said:


> Got my new (black) Gungnir Multibit connected, and Ho Lee Schiit!!! @baldr is the digital effin' maestro! I can't wait to listen to everything! Got it connected to my two channel system. (Also got a fancy new power amplifier.) Did some listening last night with my special lady, and we teared up from the beauty of it all at one point. It will more than do until I can afford a Yggdrasil.


 
 It certainly conveys the emotions of what you're listening to. There were a lot of drums and high spirits in the Celtic music I was playing when my friend came by. We spoke of raindrops in daylight and dancing in a country meadow. It truly draws you in.


----------



## daverich4

turdski said:


> Got my new (black) Gungnir Multibit connected, and Ho Lee Schiit!!! .




How do you order one in black? I don't see an option to do that on the website.


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## Brubacca

Look for the Gungnir B-Stockk. Actually it says B/Blk Stock. 
The 4th option in the drop down window is Gungnir Black Multibit-A Stock

The black ons are not annodized, but I don't know why you would or wouldn't want that. I just checked and it is still there.


----------



## sheldaze

brubacca said:


> Look for the Gungnir B-Stockk. Actually it says B/Blk Stock.
> The 4th option in the drop down window is Gungnir Black Multibit-A Stock
> 
> The black ons are not annodized, but I don't know why you would or wouldn't want that. I just checked and it is still there.


 
 Everything else in my stack is/was/will be black:
  

Cavalli Liquid Carbon (will be)
JDS Labs The Element
Schiit Bifrost Uber w/ USB
Schiit Gungnir Multibit
Schiit Mjolnir (will be)
Schiit Valhalla (was)
  
 It's a color 'thang!


----------



## kenman345

sheldaze said:


> Everything else in my stack is/was/will be black:
> 
> 
> Cavalli Liquid Carbon (will be)
> ...


 
 I cannot wait to see pictures when the stack is completed with the Cavalli Liquid Carbon and Mjolnir in there. Can you post pictures of the Gungnir, not enough of the black version have been posted and its really sexy that way.


----------



## reddog

sheldaze said:


> Everything else in my stack is/was/will be black:
> 
> 
> Cavalli Liquid Carbon (will be)
> ...



I can not wait to see your great black stack of heaping hot schiit sir, I imagine it will be superb to behold.


----------



## Doneko

sheldaze said:


> Everything else in my stack is/was/will be black:
> 
> 
> Cavalli Liquid Carbon (will be)
> ...


 

 Why both Mjolnir and Cavalli in your stack?


----------



## sheldaze

doneko said:


> Why both Mjolnir and Cavalli in your stack?


 
 I know a guy at a recent headphone meet who has both a Cavalli Liquid Crimson and a Schiit Ragnarok. I asked him exactly that question - his answer was basically that the Schiit amp could often sound correct, but sterile relative to the Cavalli. In that respect, I may end up keeping both - I do not know at this point? I'm actually waiting (one more day) for the Mjolnir. It definitely satisfies my need to hear balanced input from the Gungnir and to have a balanced headphone amplifier. I will need to compare using my own ears the Liquid Carbon against the Mjolnir to see if I feel the same sentiments as the guy at the headphone meet.


----------



## Doneko

Don't forget to share your findings!


----------



## gwitzel

Hello everybody,
  
 I have a question that is maybe more general and does not only apply to the Gungnir. I have the following situation: I am using my Gungnir DS in my main loudspeaker rig, feeding Parasound Amps via XLR interconnects. I had a separate headphone rig next to my sofa, Uberfrost + Lyr 2 + HD650. I tried the Lyr 2 with the Gungnir and liked it so much more that I decided to sell the Uberfrost and use the money for the MB upgrade of the Gungnir (still waiting to send it in). Now, the Lyr 2 stands on top of the Gungnir in my main rig, several meters (yards? I am European  ) away from my preferred listening position. So I bought a headphone extension cord (single ended), but I realized that the extension, although it is pretty high quality, makes the sound dull and less refined. This is for my ears by no means a subtle effect, I was surprised. So the extension cord is not the solution.
  
 My questions:
  
 - Do you think it would make sense to buy a MJ2 (yes, this alone probably makes a whole lot of sense  ), buy long (15 ft) XLR interconnects, put the MJ2 next to me, connect it with the GMB via the long XLR cables, and use a short good quality balanced cable for the headphones?
  
 - Is it sufficient to use single ended outputs for the Parasound Amps? I don't think the P5 preamp is intrinsically balanced. Or would you recommend to use an XLR splitter? Maybe a Y-splitter? 
  
 How nice it would be if the Gungnir would have 2 balanced outputs. A MJ2 would be still in my budget, but a second GMB is out of question. The cheapest solution of course is to keep the Lyr 2, move the whole Schiit-stack with computer next to my sofa, and use the XLR cables to connect the main rig. So I guess it all comes down to:
  
 - What do you know/think about 15 ft XLR interconnects?
  
 Thank you very much!


----------



## daverich4

brubacca said:


> Look for the Gungnir B-Stockk. Actually it says B/Blk Stock.
> The 4th option in the drop down window is Gungnir Black Multibit-A Stock
> 
> The black ons are not annodized, but I don't know why you would or wouldn't want that. I just checked and it is still there.




Is someone besides Schiit selling black ones? When I go to the Schiit site I only get two choices, Gungnir and Gungnir Multibit. It sounds like you're getting two extra choices. I'd much prefer to have a black one. My entire stack is black and silver would stick out like a sore thumb. Thanks.

Oops, I went back and found it but it looks like the black Multibits are gone. Thanks again.


----------



## money4me247

daverich4 said:


> Is someone besides Schiit selling black ones? When I go to the Schiit site I only get two choices, Gungnir and Gungnir Multibit. It sounds like you're getting two extra choices. I'd much prefer to have a black one. My entire stack is black and silver would stick out like a sore thumb. Thanks.
> 
> Oops, I went back and found it but it looks like the black Multibits are gone. Thanks again.


 
 http://schiit.com/products/gungnir-bblk
  
 still there for me. Lowest option: Multibit, A-Stock, Black Finish


----------



## Ableza

Gone now


----------



## Brubacca

Bummer...  I had been considering Black also since all my other gear is black..  If you really want black I would call them and have them check for you.  It was there this morning, maybe the e-commerce app had the wrong available quantity.  Maybe they'll tell you something like - "we'll have more later or soon or never." 
  
 If I decide that I want black that is exactly what I will do. 
 (I'm assuming that they have a phone number to contact)
  
 I will not have funding for about a month so I have to wait anyway.  I also may still go for the Chord 2Qute, haven't decided.


----------



## schneller

brubacca said:


> Bummer...  I had been considering Black also since all my other gear is black..  If you really want black I would call them and have them check for you.  It was there this morning, maybe the e-commerce app had the wrong available quantity.  Maybe they'll tell you something like - "we'll have more later or soon or never."
> 
> If I decide that I want black that is exactly what I will do.
> (I'm assuming that they have a phone number to contact)
> ...


 
  
 Please do. Would like more GMB vs. 2Qute comparisons.


----------



## schneller

Did anyone cross shop with the Audio-GD 19 (10 Anniv. Ed.)? 
  
 I've asked over there and of course they prefer it...and say the RCA inputs aren't...hampered...


----------



## johndean

schneller said:


> Please do. Would like more GMB vs. 2Qute comparisons.




They are close . You can't go wrong with either . I feel the MB Gungnir is slightly better . 
Tighter bass , more analog ,less treble harshness . 

The 2qute may have better rhythm . 

I have both . The D/S Gungnir is not near as good as either the MB Gungnir or 2qte

The Yggy is better than all of these Dacs


----------



## Noirkw91

Is the USB Gen 2 worth the upgrade with USB Gen 3 board potentially on the way? I'd have to ship it internationally from Schiit. Won't want a situation where I finally got the board and they released a gen 3 upgrade


----------



## Dalgas

I dont Think there will come a gen. 3 USB. Where did you hear that?

Schiit have a European division and are also sold in Great Brittan- Google it!


----------



## AustinValentine

dalgas said:


> I dont Think there will come a gen. 3 USB. Where did you hear that?
> 
> Schiit have a European division - Google it!


 
  
 Yggdrasil uses a Schiit Gen 3 USB board. It is likely that Gungnir and Bifrost will get it *eventually*. 
  
 Re: Noirkw91's question - I'd hold on a purchase until RMAF and then pull the trigger after they announce whatever they're going to announce. I think it's _highly, highly unlikely _that they'll release USB 3.0 for Bifrost so soon after issuing the multibit upgrade, but its not impossible. No harm in waiting out the weekend.


----------



## kenman345

austinvalentine said:


> Yggdrasil uses a Schiit Gen 3 USB board. It is likely that Gungnir and Bifrost will get it *eventually*.
> 
> Re: Noirkw91's question - I'd hold on a purchase until RMAF and then pull the trigger after they announce whatever they're going to announce. I think it's _highly, highly unlikely _that they'll release USB 3.0 for Bifrost so soon after issuing the multibit upgrade, but its not impossible. No harm in waiting out the weekend.


 
 Schiit has teased an announcement to their digital line. This should mean either the gen 3 USB board or multi-bit Bifrost


----------



## Astral Abyss

kenman345 said:


> Schiit has teased an announcement to their digital line. This should mean either the gen 3 USB board or multi-bit Bifrost


 
  
 A multi-bit Bifrost upgrade would be the perfect match for my ETHER C that I'm anxiously awaiting.  It'd be like Christmas.


----------



## AustinValentine

kenman345 said:


> Schiit has teased an announcement to their digital line. This should mean either the gen 3 USB board or multi-bit Bifrost


 
  
 Or an update to the Wyrd (which would make sense given the huge amount of attention both the Uptone Regen and Audioquest Jitterbug are getting), or to the Fulla (which is getting a bit long in the tooth vs its competition). Or all of the above, and Mike & Jason are just going to go nuts with new products again.
  
 I think that multibit Bifrost (Bumby, or Beefroast) is the most likely. Probably availability prior to Xmas. But knowing Schiit there's quite a few possibilities.


----------



## kenman345

austinvalentine said:


> Or an update to the Wyrd (which would make sense given the huge amount of attention both the Uptone Regen and Audioquest Jitterbug are getting), or to the Fulla (which is getting a bit long in the tooth vs its competition). Or all of the above, and Mike & Jason are just going to go nuts with new products again.
> 
> I think that multibit Bifrost (Bumby, or Beefroast) is the most likely. Probably availability prior to Xmas. But knowing Schiit there's quite a few possibilities.


 
 I think this is true since Baldur teased that people at the Schiit Show did not know what they were really hearing. It wouldnt surprise me though about the Gen 3 boards though, they are obviously already producing them for the Yggy, and its been long enough they have probably made large orders of them/ramped up production of them so its a no brainer to release whenever some big event is that you have nothing else ready for yet.


----------



## crazychile

austinvalentine said:


> I think that multibit Bifrost (Bumby, or Beefroast) is the most likely. Probably availability prior to Xmas. But knowing Schiit there's quite a few possibilities.


 
 Beefroast mmmmmm.


----------



## gevorg

schneller said:


> Did anyone cross shop with the Audio-GD 19 (10 Anniv. Ed.)?
> 
> I've asked over there and of course they prefer it...and say the RCA inputs aren't...hampered...




Gumby is is not really comparable to DAC-19 since it is balanced while DAC-19 is only SE. The upcoming multibit Bifrost should be more comparable to DAC-19, while Gumby and Yggy compete with Master 7 and older balanced variants (Reference 7.1, etc).


----------



## sheldaze

kenman345 said:


> Schiit has teased an announcement to their digital line. This should mean either the gen 3 USB board or multi-bit Bifrost


 

 Do you mind sharing your source? I mentioned this to a friend, and neither of us located the tease


----------



## kenman345

sheldaze said:


> Do you mind sharing your source? I mentioned this to a friend, and neither of us located the tease


 
 Its within the post Jason made regarding being sick and unable to attend RMAF.


----------



## sheldaze

kenman345 said:


> Its within the post Jason made regarding being sick and unable to attend RMAF.


 

 Thanks


----------



## JK-47

crazychile said:


> Beefroast mmmmmm.


 
 Bimby get's my vote


----------



## RCBinTN

I think an upgrade to the USB Gen 3 would be a good move for the Gumby.  There are issues with the Gen 2.
 But, they're right in the middle of the Gungnir MB upgrade.  Seems more likely now for an upgrade to the BiFrost.


----------



## AustinValentine

Bumby is up: http://schiit.com/products/bifrost-multibit


----------



## wahsmoh

This is going to be very interesting.. R2R DAC shootout of Bumby, Theta, and EAD


----------



## jfoxvol

wahsmoh said:


> This is going to be very interesting.. R2R DAC shootout of Bumby, Theta, and EAD


 
 16 Bit R2R for a low low price.  That's very cool.


----------



## wahsmoh

jfoxvol said:


> 16 Bit R2R for a low low price.  That's very cool.




I think it's interesting cause I own two older R2R DACs and one uses an 18-bit chip and the other uses two 20-bit chips. I wonder if the number of bits will matter or if in the end the Schiit filter is what is important? I want to bring the glory back to the Bifrost since all my head time had been consumed by my EAD or Theta. If you really thinks about it though, the Theta DS Progeny is what the Bifrost Uber should have been. $1000 and you get 18-bit R2R and DSP and two transformers. I bought my Bifrost Uber brand new so mine will be worth about $750 + shipping when all is said and done. 

I picked up my Progeny A for $276 in a rare eBay auction. If the Bifrost MB can sound anything like the DAC-19 I will be happy. I just think the DAC-19 might have the edge in design since it wasn't designed as a D-S DAC but as a smaller form factor Master 7. According to DAC-19 owners and Theta owners they sound very much alike if not nearly identical in sound (weird cause one is 90s Hifi the other is Chinese R2R hifi). So for $750 will it come anywhere close to DAC-19 territory? I really hope so or an extra $100 could have scooped me a DAC-19


----------



## jfoxvol

wahsmoh said:


> I think it's interesting cause I own two older R2R DACs and one uses an 18-bit chip and the other uses two 20-bit chips. I wonder if the number of bits will matter or if in the end the Schiit filter is what is important? I want to bring the glory back to the Bifrost since all my head time had been consumed by my EAD or Theta. If you really thinks about it though, the Theta DS Progeny is what the Bifrost Uber should have been. $1000 and you get 18-bit R2R and DSP and two transformers. I bought my Bifrost Uber brand new so mine will be worth about $750 + shipping when all is said and done.
> 
> I picked up my Progeny A for $276 in a rare eBay auction. If the Bifrost MB can sound anything like the DAC-19 I will be happy. I just think the DAC-19 might have the edge in design since it wasn't designed as a D-S DAC but as a smaller form factor Master 7. According to DAC-19 owners and Theta owners they sound very much alike if not nearly identical in sound (weird cause one is 90s Hifi the other is Chinese R2R hifi). So for $750 will it come anywhere close to DAC-19 territory? I really hope so or an extra $100 could have scooped me a DAC-19


 
 Yeah, I was hoping they'd have gone with 18 bits but that may have been too close in performance to GMB and too much to cram in that small  chassy.  I think these are priced right as entry level and I understand why they went 16 bits.  Most music still is 16 bits but this can handle higher sample rates still.  I have an Yggy and CDs never sounded so good through it.  This can hopefully capture some of that.  Digital filter implementation is likely the more important of the two in this case.


----------



## elnero

Ha! I just placed an order for a Bimby and Asgard 2 about 5 minutes ago and just now got a shipping notification!


----------



## hodgjy

I placed an order for the Gumby today, and it shipped out in about 46 minutes. Impressive. Should have it Tuesday.


----------



## MattTCG

hodgjy said:


> I placed an order for the Gumby today, and it shipped out in about 46 minutes. Impressive. Should have it Tuesday.


 
  
 Prepare the be impressed. This is an outstanding dac. Just can't get enough of mine.


----------



## hodgjy

matttcg said:


> Prepare the be impressed. This is an outstanding dac. Just can't get enough of mine.


 
 That's what I'm expecting. I'm upgrading from Uberfrost. I'll probably send that in at some point for MBifrost upgrade, but I'm hearing that it's not in the same league as Gumby. The step up to Gumby is still huge, unlike from Uberfrost to Gungnir DS.


----------



## MattTCG

The Gumby really changed my perception of the importance of the dac in the chain.


----------



## hodgjy

matttcg said:


> The Gumby really changed my perception of the importance of the dac in the chain.


 
 That's what I like to hear. I have no complaints with the Uberfrost, but I'm looking forward to top tier gear and experiences.


----------



## MattTCG

I finally turned off my GMB last night when the thunderstorms started rolling in. I got up this morning, plugged everything back in and cued up some tunes. Now I have a clear picture of why Moffet says to let this DAC warm up. Things are just starting to sound right again. I won't be turning this dac off unless absolutely necessary from here on out.


----------



## hodgjy

How long did it take to return to normal? What did it sound like cold?


----------



## MattTCG

hodgjy said:


> How long did it take to return to normal? What did it sound like cold?


 
  
 The sound from a cold start was just a bit thinner and not as dynamic. The wow factor and analogue sound was just not present. But now I'm almost completely back.


----------



## ToTo Man

matttcg said:


> The sound from a cold start was just a bit thinner and not as dynamic. The wow factor and analogue sound was just not present. But now I'm almost completely back.


 
 I must admit I'm a bit disappointed by the reports that Gumby and Yggy must be powered on for several, if not tens, of hours to reach optimum sound performance.  I can appreciate that many hifi components benefit from some warm-up time, indeed every amplifier I've ever owned has done to some extent, but they don't need hours and hours, certainly not left on 24/7.  I'd imagine this is going to be an inconvenience for a lot of people, including those like myself with slight OCD safety tendencies who don't like to leave their house unoccupied for half the day with all of their electronics left switched on.  What is it exactly about a multibit DAC that requires so much time come to thermal stability?


----------



## MattTCG

toto man said:


> I must admit I'm a bit disappointed by the reports that Gumby and Yggy must be powered on for several, if not tens, of hours to reach optimum sound performance.  I can appreciate that many hifi components benefit from some warm-up time, indeed every amplifier I've ever owned has done to some extent, but they don't need hours and hours, certainly not left on 24/7.  I'd imagine this is going to be an inconvenience for a lot of people, including those like myself with slight OCD safety tendencies who don't like to leave their house unoccupied for half the day with all of their electronics left switched on.  What is it exactly about a multibit DAC that requires so much time come to thermal stability?


 
  
 I really can't explain the science behind that warm process with these Schiit dacs. But I have experienced it several times with yggy at the last two meets in Nashviile. And now first hand with my GMB. 
  
 I'm listing to the same album that I played early this morning almost 12 hours later. Vocals and instruments have a noticeably improved natural quality, particularly with guitar and percussion.


----------



## murrays

toto man said:


> I must admit I'm a bit disappointed by the reports that Gumby and Yggy must be powered on for several, if not tens, of hours to reach optimum sound performance.  I can appreciate that many hifi components benefit from some warm-up time, indeed every amplifier I've ever owned has done to some extent, but they don't need hours and hours, certainly not left on 24/7.  I'd imagine this is going to be an inconvenience for a lot of people, including those like myself with slight OCD safety tendencies who don't like to leave their house unoccupied for half the day with all of their electronics left switched on.  What is it exactly about a multibit DAC that requires so much time come to thermal stability?


 
  
 When you first turn on your refrigerator it takes several hours to reach a stable temperature.
 After that it must be left on 24/7 continuously to best preserve the freshness of the contents.
 Most people I know leave their refrigerator on overnight and even when they leave the house.
  
 The circuitry of the the Schiit multi-bit DACs (like many others) benefit from thermal stability.
 Many hi-fi manufacturers recommend leaving their products on continuously for best performance.
  
 Your refrigerator would most likely use more power and be a higher fire risk than your DAC.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I like your analogy and answer.


----------



## Hardwired

I just figure Schiit Audio is the very antithesis of snake oil, so when they say something needs to be warmed up to sound its best, that must be advice from their own testing of the equipment. I keep mine turned off overnight and turn it on when I get home from work, and the music generally sounds better the longer the Gumby is on. Is that really the case or am I just fooling myself? I don't really care, so I turn it on and off as desired and deal with the consequences. Feel free to make your own decisions.


----------



## RCBinTN

Personally, when I received my GMB upgrade it sounded great right out of the box, cold.  Then the SQ kind of took a dip after a couple hours. While I was trying to figure that out, I saw posts by Baldr and Ableza that the DAC's should be left hot on AC power all the time.  Not playing music, just powered.
 When I tried that the next day, leaving the Gumby on overnight, the SQ was much more consistent.  Exactly like the experience MattTCG just posted up above.
 I know - this is new for me too.  I always powered-down all components when I was done listening.  Feels kinda Wyrd leaving it on, but it does sound better.


----------



## naish

Guys, I have a luxury problem.

I've tested the normal Bifrost on my set. It sounded great! 

Now I am gonna buy a Schiit dac this week, but I don't know wich one:

Bifrost multi bit, Gungir or Gungnir multibit? I had already decided to buy the Gungnir and upgrade later.

My source for now is the Bluesound Node. 

Thanks!


----------



## MattTCG

naish said:


> Guys, I have a luxury problem.
> 
> I've tested the normal Bifrost on my set. It sounded great!
> 
> ...


 
  
 We would need a little more information. 
  
 *what headphones do you have or plan to purchase? Or is this for a speaker purchase?
  
 *what amp are you using/planning to buy?
  
 *Is the Gungnir MB in your budget now or would you have to upgrade later?
  
 *what do you mean by "on your set?"
  
 General advice is to get the very best dac you can afford. Ultimately the quality of the music will ALWAYS come down to source.It is the foundation for your system and can be for many years.


----------



## US Blues

matttcg said:


> General advice is to get the very best dac you can afford. Ultimately the quality of the music will ALWAYS come down to source.It is the foundation for your system and can be for many years.


 
  
 +1 It will also save you money long-term because you won't be trying to correct DAC deficiencies by trying a variety of down-signal gear.


----------



## naish

*what headphones do you have or plan to purchase? Or is this for a speaker purchase? *Mainly I use my speakers*

*what amp are you using/planning to buy? I *use a Yamaha A-S2000*

*Is the Gungnir MB in your budget now or would you have to upgrade later? *The MB is not in my budget but I cam easely affort one. But how big is the diifference between a MB and delta?*

*what do you mean by "on your set?"* I ment:
My set. Stupid autocorrection. *


----------



## AustinValentine

naish said:


> *Is the Gungnir MB in your budget now or would you have to upgrade later? *The MB is not in my budget but I cam easely affort one. But how big is the diifference between a MB and delta?*


 
  
 Pretty damn huge IMO: more microdetail, better tonality, better sense of space (go go Mike Moffat's Supermegaburrito filter). It also loses the remaining shoutiness from the DS Gungnir but without losing dynamics. This was a huge plus to me. 
  
 If you can swing Gumby, do it. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Go straight to Gumby.


----------



## johndean

austinvalentine said:


> Pretty damn huge IMO: more microdetail, better tonality, better sense of space (go go Mike Moffat's Supermegaburrito filter). It also loses the remaining shoutiness from the DS Gungnir but without losing dynamics. This was a huge plus to me.
> 
> If you can swing Gumby, do it. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Go straight to Gumby.




I agree with you . I upgraded my DS Gungnir to the Gumby and wow . There is significant improvement across the board 

Get the Gumby .


----------



## ZoNtO

Anybody feeding the Gumby with the coax output from an Oppo blu-ray player? I'm considering adding a Gumby to my video 2.0 / headphone setup and possibly getting a preamp with two balanced inputs so that I could use balanced outputs from both the Gumby and the Oppo (to get the high-resolution audio from SACD and Blu-ray when I use those discs).


----------



## sheldaze

zonto said:


> Anybody feeding the Gumby with the coax output from an Oppo blu-ray player? I'm considering adding a Gumby to my video 2.0 / headphone setup and possibly getting a preamp with two balanced inputs so that I could use balanced outputs from both the Gumby and the Oppo (to get the high-resolution audio from SACD and Blu-ray when I use those discs).


 
 I am feeding my Gumby from an Oppo BDP-105. Though I do not know how high the resolution will be from things like DSD or DVD-Audio discs, if that's what you're asking? It'll pass PCM, but it will generally lower the output resolution.


----------



## ZoNtO

sheldaze said:


> I am feeding my Gumby from an Oppo BDP-105. Though I do not know how high the resolution will be from things like DSD or DVD-Audio discs, if that's what you're asking? It'll pass PCM, but it will generally lower the output resolution.


 
 Because of licensing, when you pass high resolution audio streams from SACD through the coaxial output, it downsamples to 24-bit, 88.2 khz.
  
 From the manual:
  
 NOTE:

Due to bandwidth limitations, high resolution audio formats such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution and DTS-HD Master Audio cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. A reduced resolution version of the same audio track will be output instead. To listen to high resolution audio formats in their best quality, please use the HDMI connection if you have a receiver that handles HDMI audio (see page 11) or use the multi-channel analog outputs if you do not (see page 18).
Due to copyright restrictions, SACD audio cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. To listen to SACDs, please use the HDMI or analog audio connections.
Due to copyright restrictions and bandwidth limitations, full resolution audio from DVD-Audio discs cannot be sent through the coaxial or optical digital audio output. To listen to DVDAudio in full resolution, please use the HDMI or analog audio connections.
  
 Have you compared using the Oppo's analog outputs vs. piping the data through coax to the Gumby? I use the 105 mostly for Netflix and regular CDs, but it would be nice to retain the flexibility for other formats. Otherwise, may as well sell the 105D and just get a 103 to use the coaxial output. I've just been so intrigued by what I've read about the Gumby and Yggy...


----------



## sheldaze

kenman345 said:


> I cannot wait to see pictures when the stack is completed with the Cavalli Liquid Carbon and Mjolnir in there. Can you post pictures of the Gungnir, not enough of the black version have been posted and its really sexy that way.


 
 My Uberfrost is on its way back to the factory to become a Bimby. Here is a picture of the Mojo warming up:

 And once I took the picture, I found it interesting (to me at least) how common the black/silver/tan is for audio component colors. Here's a picture of _what_ I'm warming up (along with the Mojo) and a larger view of the other colors in the system:

 No choice on the purple dongle plugged into the front of the Oppo


----------



## sheldaze

zonto said:


> Because of licensing, when you pass high resolution audio streams from SACD through the coaxial output, it downsamples to 24-bit, 88.2 khz.
> 
> From the manual:
> 
> ...


 
 I really liked the Oppo for about 3-weeks. Then my ears started to get tired of DAC implementation. I've heard other DAC that use D-S and make my ears much less tired, probably the Arcam irDAC is closest in detail retrieval. But for my taste, I really much prefer the DAC implementation in the Gungnir Multibit. The detail retrieval is top notch, but without any glare.
  
 EDIT: And yes, I do still use the analog outputs from the Oppo. It simply plays everything under the Sun. And I have everything under the Sun connected through it, so I cannot get away from using its outputs. I just much prefer the Schiit DAC sound.


----------



## wahsmoh

us blues said:


> +1 It will also save you money long-term because you won't be trying to correct DAC deficiencies by trying a variety of down-signal gear.


 

 I agree.. DAC makes a bigger overall improvement than switching amps or playing around with cables. It is the single most important component for getting the most out of your headphones (as long as you have good power)


----------



## MattTCG

@sheldaze just love the black stack of Schiit. If you want a matching volume knob, pm me.


----------



## US Blues

zonto said:


> From the manual:
> 
> NOTE:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting info about DVD-A. I feed the digital coax output of an Oppo 93 to an Yggy, and have burned 24/192 DVD-A's from flac files purchased on HDTracks, and I get full resolution on playback according to the indicators on the Yggy.
  
 And the Gumby will sound far better to the built-in DAC of any Oppo machine.


----------



## naish

austinvalentine said:


> Pretty damn huge IMO: more microdetail, better tonality, better sense of space (go go Mike Moffat's Supermegaburrito filter). It also loses the remaining shoutiness from the DS Gungnir but without losing dynamics. This was a huge plus to me.
> 
> If you can swing Gumby, do it. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Go straight to Gumby.




Thnaks for your answers. i'll go for the Gumby, although it is €400 than a DS.


----------



## AudioBear

You have also avoided having to ship the Gungnir back to get the board updated.  That adds cost, chance of damage, and loss of the kit for some period of time.  If you're going to buy a Gumby it's better do it now.  
  
 I thought about buying the Gungnir DS last November but decided to wait since I was sure there would be a little brother to Yggy.  I'm glad I did it that way and I love my Gumby.
  
 Goforit.


----------



## Billheiser

sheldaze said:


> No choice on the purple dongle plugged into the front of the Oppo


 
 You got a problem with purple?


----------



## johndean

audiobear said:


> You have also avoided having to ship the Gungnir back to get the board updated.  That adds cost, chance of damage, and loss of the kit for some period of time.  If you're going to buy a Gumby it's better do it now.
> 
> I thought about buying the Gungnir DS last November but decided to wait since I was sure there would be a little brother to Yggy.  I'm glad I did it that way and I love my Gumby.
> 
> Goforit.


 
 Look the DS Gungnir is very good but the MB Gungnir is incredible.


----------



## naish

johndean said:


> Look the DS Gungnir is very good but the MB Gungnir is incredible.




Thanks! Here in the Netherlands many people don't have the Gumby yet. So there not much experience about the sound and the improvement.

The Schiit importeur for Europe is nearby my house and I was there last week. It was raining Gungnir Delta Sigmas there. People all over europe send their DS to them to upgrade. It gonna be a busy time for them...


----------



## Dalgas

Interesting! I am one of the many Europeans that have sent in my Gungnir for upgrade. May be a while before I get it back.....


----------



## naish

dalgas said:


> Interesting! I am one of the many Europeans that have sent in my Gungnir for upgrade. May be a while before I get it back.....



When I visited them this week I 'll have a look where your baby is.. Maybe he is already transformed to a Gumby..?


----------



## Dalgas

Hopefully it is - I Can Hardly wait. I am impressed by the DS Gungnir. And so was three of my friends who borrowed it. It was beaten by a 7000 USD DAC - but not by much....

If Gumby is that much better I think I will let them borrow it for a new test.


----------



## rush2049

I ordered a gungnir multibit and a mjolnir 2 with lisst about a week ago.
  
 Received my gungnir on friday, sadly I think it is defective, as the single ended outputs are significantly louder on the left channel. (Tested with asgard 2 amp). I am talking with Schiit tech Nick about it, I think its going to end in a replacement being shipped out.
  
 Anyone else have similar issues?
  
  
 Tomorrow when the mjolnir shows up I will test the balanced outputs as well, but I want all the output to function as they should.


----------



## Mr Rick

rush2049 said:


> I ordered a gungnir multibit and a mjolnir 2 with lisst about a week ago.
> 
> Received my gungnir on friday, sadly I think it is defective, as the single ended outputs are significantly louder on the left channel. (Tested with asgard 2 amp). I am talking with Schiit tech Nick about it, I think its going to end in a replacement being shipped out.
> 
> ...


 
 Schiit happens. I have no doubt Nick will handle the problem in a professional manner.


----------



## johndean

dalgas said:


> Hopefully it is - I Can Hardly wait. I am impressed by the DS Gungnir. And so was three of my friends who borrowed it. It was beaten by a 7000 USD DAC - but not by much....
> 
> If Gumby is that much better I think I will let them borrow it for a new test.


 
 It is much better the the DS version .Trust me.


----------



## Mediahound

rush2049 said:


> I ordered a gungnir multibit and a mjolnir 2 with lisst about a week ago.
> 
> Received my gungnir on friday, sadly I think it is defective, as the single ended outputs are significantly louder on the left channel. (Tested with asgard 2 amp). I am talking with Schiit tech Nick about it, I think its going to end in a replacement being shipped out.
> 
> ...


 

 Keep in mind that most recording actually have vocals mixed slightly to the left:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/501948/stereo-imaging-vocals-towards-left-side/15#post_11864217
  
 So that's what you are hearing, it may be normal.


----------



## rush2049

mediahound said:


> Keep in mind that most recording actually have vocals mixed slightly to the left:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/501948/stereo-imaging-vocals-towards-left-side/15#post_11864217
> 
> So that's what you are hearing, it may be normal.




I tested with a bunch of different tracks. When I switched back to the bifrost they sounded fine. My theory is that a board is loose inside from shipping, or a chip is bad.... it's not simply lower volume. It's like certain frequencies are missing, but it just sounds really quiet overall (right channel). But I'm not willing to open and diagnose myself. I'd rather just cross ship a new one.


----------



## Mediahound

rush2049 said:


> I tested with a bunch of different tracks. When I switched back to the bifrost they sounded fine. My theory is that a board is loose inside from shipping, or a chip is bad.... it's not simply lower volume. It's like certain frequencies are missing, but it just sounds really quiet overall (right channel). But I'm not willing to open and diagnose myself. I'd rather just cross ship a new one.


 

 Yeah, sounds like a defect then in that case unfortunately.


----------



## Brubacca

Does Gumby remember the last input when powered off? or what input does it default to?  My intended use would be BNC.
  
 (Not my intention to power it off often, but storms happen.)


----------



## Mediahound

brubacca said:


> Does Gumby remember the last input when powered off? or what input does it default to?  My intended use would be BNC.
> 
> (Not my intention to power it off often, but storms happen.)


 

 Seems to.


----------



## hodgjy

My Gumby arrived today.


----------



## yinyang69

Can someone tell me the bnc input on gungnir... is male or female?


----------



## gevorg

male female!


----------



## murrays

BNC panel sockets are female as standard. BNC plugs on cables are male as standard. 
I suggest you double check with Schiit themselves.


----------



## Mediahound

Look at the rear panel picture, the BNC is clearly a male connector:


----------



## jfoxvol

It's female. The little hole in the middle. The male end is on the cable and has the pointy "male" copper bit that goes into the hole


----------



## Mediahound

murrays said:


> BNC panel sockets are female as standard.


 
 Not true, they're normally male:


----------



## jfoxvol

Also female


----------



## Mr Rick

Cheers.


----------



## Mediahound

My mistake. Sorry about that. I was assuming it was a pin but looked at my Gungnir closer and it's actually a hole, so it is female.
  
 They should invent a transgender connector. They could call it a Caitlyn connector.


----------



## yinyang69

Nick from Schiit Audio just confirmed that BNC socket on Gungnir is female side.
 Thanks for checking everyone


----------



## jfoxvol

We aim to please!


----------



## yinyang69

jfoxvol said:


> We aim to please!


----------



## jlangholzj

Ya'll had me worried for a sec.
  
 Was wondering if we were going to have to have "the talk"


----------



## yinyang69

jlangholzj said:


> Ya'll had me worried for a sec.
> 
> Was wondering if we were going to have to have "the talk"


----------



## yinyang69

yinyang69 said:


>


 
 Lol


----------



## jfoxvol

I just spilled my beer. Hahaha


----------



## daverich4




----------



## yinyang69

Does anyone have direct comparison between the Bryston BDA-2 and the Gungnir Multibit?
 I would love to hear your thoughts & opinions on both.


----------



## seb7

yinyang69 said:


> Does anyone have direct comparison between the Bryston BDA-2 and the Gungnir Multibit?
> I would love to hear your thoughts & opinions on both.


 
  
 +1
  
 I have the BDA-2 and I am curious how they compare as well.


----------



## johndean

seb7 said:


> +1
> 
> I have the BDA-2 and I am curious how they compare as well.




I can compare it to the 2qute,benchmark 2hgc , Yggy . 

The Yggy is the only dac that's better . 

The MB Gungnir is the best dac I've listened to under 2 k . The only ones that are close are near 2k . 

The Dacs around the same price are destroyed by the Mb Gungnir . 

I've spent the last 1 1/2 years testing Dacs to get the perfect sound . The Schiit Gungnir and Yggy were the best , 

I have listened to Parasound , Benchmark , Marantz , Peachtree , Nad , Audiolab, Arcam ,Ifi ,Chord .


----------



## sheldaze

See post above!
  
 Quote:


schneller said:


> Please do. Would like more GMB vs. 2Qute comparisons.


----------



## artur9

johndean said:


> I can compare it to the 2qute,benchmark 2hgc , Yggy .
> 
> The Dacs around the same price are destroyed by the Mb Gungnir .
> 
> I have listened to Parasound , Benchmark , Marantz , Peachtree , Nad , Audiolab, Arcam ,Ifi ,Chord .


 
 What do you mean by destroyed?  Timbre? Sound stage width/depth?  Accuracy?  Neutrality?  Or something else?
  
 Details!


----------



## mitch_o

How many of you have tried the Gumby with an Airport Express?
  
 Jason and the Schiit website claim the AX should trigger the "buy better gear" light, though mine doesn't. Has anyone noticed the same? I believe I'm using the first generation AX.


----------



## pzwief

Sonos connect does not trigger my Gumby's buy better gear light.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

mitch_o said:


> How many of you have tried the Gumby with an Airport Express?
> 
> Jason and the Schiit website claim the AX should trigger the "buy better gear" light, though mine doesn't. Has anyone noticed the same? I believe I'm using the first generation AX.


 

 I haven't tried Gumby yet with an AX, but I have tried non-MB Gungnir and the "buy better gear" light would come and go at about 1 minute intervals. Each change resulted in some muting and relay clicking. This led me to replace the AX with a Raspberry PI with coax out.


----------



## pzwief

Was thinking of replacing my Sonos connect with a Bluesound Node.  Anybody know if Bluesound Node will trigger Gumby's buy better gear light?  Thanks.


----------



## daverich4

jfoxvol said:


> It's female. The little hole in the middle. The male end is on the cable and has the pointy "male" copper bit that goes into the hole


 

 Not to bring this up again because everyone including Schiit says it's female but this is from the picture on their web site and that's not a female connector. Any chance they changed it at some point and never updated the picture?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

daverich4 said:


> Not to bring this up again because everyone including Schiit says it's female but this is from the picture on their web site and that's not a female connector. Any chance they changed it at some point and never updated the picture?


 

 Yes, it IS female:
  
 http://www.vetco.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=657
  

  
 If the confusion is because of the pin SOCKET sticking out from the insulation, maybe this will clarify:
  
 http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/48-454_CANFORD-BNC-HD-SDI-Female-panel-75-ohm-double-sided-insulated


----------



## robm321

.


----------



## sheldaze

Has anyone used a UPS, for transport of their "warm" Multibit to a headphone meet?


----------



## mikoss

sheldaze said:


> Has anyone used a UPS, for transport of their "warm" Multibit to a headphone meet?



Used one for the Angstrom DAC I have, and I also plan on using it for the Gumby whenever a meet comes along. It's a cheap APC UPS I bought second hand and lasts for a very long time with the DACs in standby.


----------



## sheldaze

mikoss said:


> Used one for the Angstrom DAC I have, and I also plan on using it for the Gumby whenever a meet comes along. It's a cheap APC UPS I bought second hand and lasts for a very long time with the DACs in standby.


 
 Thanks.
 I suppose I'll just have to do the math: xxxVA = Gumby x 60 minutes drive to meet


----------



## Billheiser

Or just run it all night, and wrap it up in a blanket or insulated food bag.  I think it's the thermal status that's important, not necessarily that the electrons are flowing.


----------



## sheldaze

Ok…ok...
 I'm putting way too much thought into this. I'll just go with the one that's on sale down the street


----------



## hodgjy

I posted a mini-review of the Gumby.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-gungnir/reviews/14228


----------



## sheldaze

hodgjy said:


> I posted a mini-review of the Gumby.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-gungnir/reviews/14228


 
 Excellent review!


----------



## hodgjy

sheldaze said:


> Excellent review!




Thank you!


----------



## RCBinTN

hodgjy said:


> I posted a mini-review of the Gumby.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-gungnir/reviews/14228


 
  
 Well done.  Fully agree with your SQ impressions, and really Love your point #4.


----------



## jfoxvol

hodgjy said:


> Thank you!




Great review. I felt extremely similar results with my Yggy. The gap between hires and red book has greatly narrowed. I attribute a lot to the filter implementation. Phase is as important as frequency.


----------



## 333jeffery

Does the Gumby require much burn-in? I've got 40 hours on mine and it's still a little harsh sounding. My old Gungnir was nice and smooth after this much time.


----------



## sheldaze

333jeffery said:


> Does the Gumby require much burn-in? I've got 40 hours on mine and it's still a little harsh sounding. My old Gungnir was nice and smooth after this much time.


 
 Are you leaving it powered on the entire time? Looking through the threads, I've seen people report very good sound by 40 hours. It's kind of a blur in my history - I do not recall at what hour I heard what quality of sound. And honestly, I was rather happy out of the box - relative to previous DAC I had owned.


----------



## hodgjy

sheldaze said:


> Are you leaving it powered on the entire time? Looking through the threads, I've seen people report very good sound by 40 hours. It's kind of a blur in my history - I do not recall at what hour I heard what quality of sound. And honestly, I was rather happy out of the box - relative to previous DAC I had owned.


 
 I was happy out of the box as well. Things settled down after 6 hours, but that's not to say it was rough before then. It wasn't.


----------



## TubemanRQ

333jeffery said:


> Does the Gumby require much burn-in? I've got 40 hours on mine and it's still a little harsh sounding. My old Gungnir was nice and smooth after this much time.


 
 As an owner of 3 Gumby's and two D/S Gungnirs, my first multibit  Gungnir was changing from hour 1 through hour 500. I heard dramatic changes as my first Gumby was burning in from about 40-75 hours, then more changes from about 250 to 500 hours and settling into it's final state, always with a burn-in signal or music flowing through it.
 I always leave them on, and never turn them off. I would say, to my ears, in my system, it was always smooth, but really smoothed out even more after about 200 hours.
 I have a fully-active 5 way system with digital crossovers and ten channels of amplification, utilizing 3 Gumbys and two D/S Gungnirs.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## TubemanRQ

BTW, I use the 3 Gumbys for the tweeters, upper midrange, and midrange respectively. I use the two D/S Gungnirs for the bass and subwoofers respectively.


----------



## Billheiser

tubemanrq said:


> BTW, I use the 3 Gumbys for the tweeters, upper midrange, and midrange respectively. I use the two D/S Gungnirs for the bass and subwoofers respectively.


 

 you need to show us a photo of that setup, holy moly!


----------



## Mediahound

billheiser said:


> you need to show us a photo of that setup, holy moly!


 
 Yeah, at this point, I don't think anyone really believes his setup is real.


----------



## Billheiser

Ah, ok, thanks.


----------



## 333jeffery

After 50 hours, mine is starting to mellow out. The treble on the Gumby is a good bit brighter than on my old Gungnir. The detail it reveals is awesome, though, especially on guitars and voices.


----------



## sheldaze

333jeffery said:


> After 50 hours, mine is starting to mellow out. The treble on the Gumby is a good bit brighter than on my old Gungnir. The detail it reveals is awesome, though, especially on guitars and voices.


 
 Not to try to add words, but brightness on most digital implementations implies harshness - in my history of DACs. Would you characterize the brightness as a good brightness, as you seem to have elaborated on in your second sentence - or would you say it adds too much detail, glare, hardness, sibilant, metallic, etc.
  
 The reason I am specifying is I do not think people understand, until they have heard the sound for themselves, what it means to add more detail on the high end of the frequency spectrum in a good R2R implementation. In my experience with the Multibit Gungnir, it is the first time I have liked the high frequency sounds. And I am curious if you are finding it to be the same?


----------



## thomascrown

mediahound said:


> Yeah, at this point, I don't think anyone really believes his setup is real.


----------



## TubemanRQ

mediahound said:


> Yeah, at this point, I don't think anyone really believes his setup is real.


 
 OK, when I get home from work, I will post a few pics.
  
 I have been VERY reluctant because my setup is messy, wires ALL over the place, and it isn't exactly pretty. I have been planning on building some new racks to house the 5 Gungnirs, 3 WYRDS, my dual PC setup, etc. and the two MiniDSP digital crossovers I use in order to have 10 active channels. 
  
 I have been enjoying music too much to bother about it.
  
 My messy setup has been the main reason I have not posted anything, BUT to put to rest any doubt, I'll post a few pics for the WORLD to see my messy setup. LOL!
  
 I'm willing to help anyone who wants to pursue an all-active open baffle system, and can share how I developed the crossover slopes and addressed driver resonances utilizing notch filters.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## TubemanRQ

Before I post these pictures of my system, I'm curious, what is it about my system that some find unbelieveable? Is it the use of 5 Gungnirs in ONE system? Is it the unbelief that I actually HAVE 5 Gungnirs?
  
 I'm curious why the naysayers or unbelief?
  
 Mediahound? ThomasCrown???


----------



## XenHeadFi

tubemanrq said:


> Before I post these pictures of my system, I'm curious, what is it about my system that some find unbelieveable? Is it the use of 5 Gungnirs in ONE system? Is it the unbelief that I actually HAVE 5 Gungnirs?


 
 Not a naysayer, but ever since you described your system, I have wanted to actually visualize 5! count them 5! Gungnirs used in a 2-channel system. I think it will look glorious even if it's "messy." Also how you got your drivers set up.


----------



## vocalstrance

Not a naysayer, but some expensive inspiration is always welcome. My simple stuff can get complicated with wiring alone.


----------



## MattTCG

tubemanrq said:


> OK, when I get home from work, I will post a few pics.
> 
> I have been VERY reluctant because my setup is messy, wires ALL over the place, and it isn't exactly pretty. I have been planning on building some new racks to house the 5 Gungnirs, 3 WYRDS, my dual PC setup, etc. and the two MiniDSP digital crossovers I use in order to have 10 active channels.
> 
> ...


----------



## thomascrown

tubemanrq said:


> Before I post these pictures of my system, I'm curious, what is it about my system that some find unbelieveable? Is it the use of 5 Gungnirs in ONE system? Is it the unbelief that I actually HAVE 5 Gungnirs?
> 
> I'm curious why the naysayers or unbelief?
> 
> Mediahound? ThomasCrown???


 
 Actually I starting being skeptical after the 2nd wyrd...


----------



## crazychile

xenheadfi said:


> tubemanrq said:
> 
> 
> > Before I post these pictures of my system, I'm curious, what is it about my system that some find unbelieveable? Is it the use of 5 Gungnirs in ONE system? Is it the unbelief that I actually HAVE 5 Gungnirs?
> ...




Yeah this. Ever since you started posting about your system I was thinking about the potential for this to be a pretty awesome system. While not cheap, if its half as good as you say it is, I'll bet it beats a lot of systems that cost quite a bit more. I'm pretty curious is all.


----------



## joseph69

Anyone here heard/have the Gungnir USB2>BHSE>SR-009? I recently picked one up to use with a different set-up balanced, but have since cancelled that set-up and went with the BHSE/SR-009 so it wasn't intended to use with this system thats why I'm asking for some impressions/opinions even though I may feel differently when I hear it for myself.
 if it pairs well with the BHSE/SR-009.
 Thank you.


----------



## Dalgas

tubemanrq said:


> Before I post these pictures of my system, I'm curious, what is it about my system that some find unbelieveable? Is it the use of 5 Gungnirs in ONE system? Is it the unbelief that I actually HAVE 5 Gungnirs?
> 
> I'm curious why the naysayers or unbelief?
> 
> Mediahound? ThomasCrown???


 
 I dont find that your system unbelieveable - rather I find it exciting. I dont need a picture to support this. 
  
 Check out BeoLab 90: 18 driverunits, 18 d/a converters and 8.200 w of power - and that is just one speaker!!!


----------



## shutterbox

333jeffery said:


> After 50 hours, mine is starting to mellow out. The treble on the Gumby is a good bit brighter than on my old Gungnir. The detail it reveals is awesome, though, especially on guitars and voices.


 
  
 hi,
  
 I'm trying to understand.
  
 So as the Gumby mellows out, the treble got a good bit brighter (than the old Gungnir)?
  
 Is that suppose to mean Gumby's treble got clearer, treble comes with more detail or you mean the treble has gone more blaring and stood out from the rest of the spectrum?


----------



## hodgjy

99% of any gear's "burn in" is in our brains. Ever notice how burn in always improves sound? This is because our brain is learning to accept it. There would have to be some instances where burn in degraded the sound to provide any support for actual hardware changes.


----------



## NinjaHamster

I've certainly experienced degradation of the initial sound quality of a component during the burn in process before sound quality has improved.


----------



## TubemanRQ

ninjahamster said:


> I've certainly experienced degradation of the initial sound quality of a component during the burn in process before sound quality has improved.


 
 I experienced this with Gunngir AND Gungnir multibit. I remember that it was glorious, real open sounding, and had a tube-like liquidity, then after about 75 hours it went away and didn't quite sound as good, then it started opening up again after around 200 hours, and seemed to smooth out and flesh out more till around the 500 hour mark which is where it seemed to setlle at..
  
 BTW, for all wondering, I'm compiling pictures to post of my 5 Gungnir, all-active, ten channel amplification- two-channel stereo setup. BADA BING BADA BOOM!!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## mikoss

hodgjy said:


> 99% of any gear's "burn in" is in our brains. Ever notice how burn in always improves sound? This is because our brain is learning to accept it. There would have to be some instances where burn in degraded the sound to provide any support for actual hardware changes.



You're entitled to your opinion, however capacitors can dramatically alter the presentation from initial power up well into the 100 hour mark. I have personally heard this, and capacitor dielectric changes/aging is the reason older gear is sometimes taken in for recapping. 

Dynamic drivers also alter their response in time from brand new, pad wear also accounts for dramatic FR changes throughout the life of headphones. 

I think it's a dangerous statement to suggest that 99% of perceived changes are in our brains, especially with a DAC that has documented results correlating accuracy and thermal temperature. 

Fwiw my Gumby sounded "crisp" out of the box, then became (overly) warm with brightness up top, then the warmth subsided as details became more and more apparent. This took well over 50 hours, and there were two dramatic changes as others have mentioned as well (for me, after 24 hours, then after over ~350 hours). It always sounded accurate and authoritative though. I'll be plugging it back in from cold tomorrow and I'll subjectively note how it sounds, and if it changes again.


----------



## hodgjy

mikoss said:


> You're entitled to your opinion, however capacitors can dramatically alter the presentation from initial power up well into the 100 hour mark. I have personally heard this, and capacitor dielectric changes/aging is the reason older gear is sometimes taken in for recapping.
> 
> Dynamic drivers also alter their response in time from brand new, pad wear also accounts for dramatic FR changes throughout the life of headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice post; sound opinions. Thanks for not making it personal.
  
 But my original thesis is asking why changes always end up in a positive light. Why is the multi-hundred hour burn in always an improvement? Also, Schiit burns their gear in at their place, so that just adds to my opinion that burn in is mostly mental.


----------



## mikoss

I actually don't believe it's always better... The impressions myself and others gave mentioned brightness. I also believe 1dB of frequency response in a certain area can be described as dramatic by some, while others may not even notice the change. 

In the case of the Multibit Schiit DACs, the chips themselves become more accurate as they reach thermal equilibrium. This results in higher dynamic range, and less jitter; both which may be responsible for the audible improvements. (See the Yggdrasil measurements available from Atomicbob). 

If you ever get a chance to experiment, try swapping some amplifier capacitors with ELNA Silmic II capacitors. Their burn in behavior results in changes all over the place for a very long while... I don't find the gear to be incrementally better sounding throughout their first 60 hours, but they have a very signature response once they're settled in that sounds very nice in my opinion.

Oh also Schiit burns in their DACs for 24 hours I believe. Probably results in changes from brand new, but in my opinion, the sound continues to change with further burn in.


----------



## jfoxvol

The primary purpose of burn in for electronic components is to minimize any component failure after it leaves the shop.  Most components that fail will fail within the first few days.  This really applies to all electronics.  Secondly, for DACs, it ensures the components reach thermal stability, measure, and sound like they're supposed to.  This all happens in the shop before it gets to us.  Lastly, it gets thrown on a truck and can take up to a week to reach its recipient.  Any turn on time to reach thermal stability has been essentially washed.  These multibit DACs are a peculiar breed.  They're precise instruments that do require time to settle thermally.  I personally noticed degradation after a certain period with my Yggy then back to good again then better. The chips are finicky and require very precise regulation to perform at their spec.  
  
 For amps, especially tubes, just turn it on a few minutes before you're ready to listen.  They take far less time to reach their quiescent operating state.  These DACs tho.  Yes, it does take time and sound does vary a good bit over that settling time (good and bad).


----------



## TubemanRQ

Ok everyone, a few pics of my setup, for those inquiring minds!!  LOL!


----------



## TubemanRQ

mediahound said:


> Let's face it, his so-called 5 Gungnir system is all in his mind. He has not posted pictures of it and would rather go on and on pontificating about it than post  pictures.
> 
> I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong,  but I'm not holding my breath.


 

 YEP! It's all in my mind, and it sounds GLORIOUS! Movies are pretty sweet too!!
  
 Cheers!
  
 P.S. My Yggy is on order too! Hopefully it will ship soon, as they are now in stock. I will DEFINITELY be using Yggy on the tweeters.
 I feel Yggy will give the best bang for the buck there, as high frequency information is predominantly, but not ENTIRELY, where we process focus, soundstaging and imaging, and ambient cues and decay comes from. Bass also can play a vital part in soundstaging and ambient cues.
 Did you know that bass actually starts at the tweeters? A friend of mine did some impulse response measurements of a kick drum, and that the kickdrum actually started out in the high frequencies. I forget exactly, but it was well over 20kHz. Interesting....
 Maybe in the future, after I save a few more pennies and dimes, I can upgrade the other 4 DACS to Yggys as well!


----------



## Mediahound

tubemanrq said:


> YEP! It's all in my mind, and it sounds GLORIOUS! Movies are pretty sweet too!!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry I doubted you. That looks like quite a esoteric setup.


----------



## jfoxvol

Very cool setup.  Never doubted you.  You always sounded like you knew what you were talking about from tech standpoint.  Next step: cable management! Ha.  Very nice setup.


----------



## Mr Rick

mediahound said:


> Sorry I doubted you. That looks like quite a esoteric setup.


 
 I'm willing to bet it sounds like Schiit.


----------



## jlangholzj

Interesting what you've all got going on...just...wow hahaha. Also the cable management makes me want to beat you over the head with a stick! If not for the management but just to be there in order to hear that....*drool*
  
 I don't know if i should laugh, cry, or otherwise. First thought was "this guys nuts....just nucking futz" and then I remember how much money I've got tied in across three cars....I'll go back in my corner now hahahaha.


----------



## jfoxvol

tubemanrq said:


> YEP! It's all in my mind, and it sounds GLORIOUS! Movies are pretty sweet too!!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 
 I'd be interested to know details on your approach in the digital crossovers.  A lot of potential there.  Given how many you're using, I'd love to know how you optimized the phase coherence between them all.  Sorry if I'm getting off topic on the Gungnir thread.


----------



## vocalstrance

With a setup like that, I hope you never have to move. Setting it all up again would be a nightmare.


----------



## Billheiser

I accept now that it exists.  Hope it sounds great.  This is a system that is certain to be replicated by - no one ever.  That's not a putdown, just that your system is "sui generis".


----------



## thomascrown

TubemanRQ thanks for posting them, I can see now why you were so reluctant


----------



## AndreYew

TubemanRQ, thanks for posting the pictures. That looks like a similar driver config to the Linkwitz Orion, except with an extra midrange and a different tweeter. Did you base your speaker on Linkwitz's dipole speaker work?


----------



## XenHeadFi

tubemanrq said:


> YEP! It's all in my mind, and it sounds GLORIOUS! Movies are pretty sweet too!!


 
 It sure is GLORIOUS!  I would love to hear how your system came about especially the thought process. Ever think about starting a thread in the DIY section? 
  
 I have no idea what the function of those things that look like metal shutters are, heat sinks? Baffles?
  
 Thanks for posting pix. It was messier than I imagined, but about what I expected.


----------



## US Blues

Bravo! It's a kludge, but I'd love to spend the day listening.


----------



## TubemanRQ

andreyew said:


> TubemanRQ, thanks for posting the pictures. That looks like a similar driver config to the Linkwitz Orion, except with an extra midrange and a different tweeter. Did you base your speaker on Linkwitz's dipole speaker work?


 
 Hi! Yes, Siegfried was an inspiration, and I acquired these drivers originally to do an Orion-inspired design with an extra 8" driver. I used Seas Millenium tweeters for years in this system, which is the hole you see in the main baffle. I then purchased the Dayton Audio AMT-PRO 4 air-motion transformers. I feel they perform better than the Seas Millenium tweeters. They are also dipole! No need to have two tweeters with one wired out of phase and firing backwards. The distortion is very very low, and they measure very smooth within their designed frequency range.
  
 This system has allowed me to appreciate what the Schiit Gungnirs do, D/S or multibit.


----------



## TubemanRQ

xenheadfi said:


> It sure is GLORIOUS!  I would love to hear how your system came about especially the thought process. Ever think about starting a thread in the DIY section?
> 
> I have no idea what the function of those things that look like metal shutters are, heat sinks? Baffles?
> 
> Thanks for posting pix. It was messier than I imagined, but about what I expected.


 

 I think you are talking about the 24" tall midrange planar magnetic drivers. ATC is the company that makes them. Their frequency response is 300Hz to about 15kHz, but I use them from 550Hz to 900Hz. ATC also makes the LRAD and other public-address systems.
  
 They are very efficient at 97db/ 1 Watt/ 1 Meter, so they only need that 25 watt small class-T amp on top of the one multibit Gungnir.
  
 When I first heard an open-baffle system, it was because I was too lazy to build the boxes for the Hammer Dynamics Super 12 kit I purchased. The drivers sounded SOOO amazing with just a baffle board with a hole cut out for them, and mounted with simple brackets, that I never bothered finishing the cabinets.
  
 Every thing I do to my system, the Gungnirs, especially the multibit, conveys audible changes. I feel that there is MUCH more improvement I can do to this system with further tweaking of the crossovers, and doing more testing with polar response, and phasing relationship. It's a LOT of work but is my passion.


----------



## TubemanRQ

jfoxvol said:


> Very cool setup.  Never doubted you.  You always sounded like you knew what you were talking about from tech standpoint.  Next step: cable management! Ha.  Very nice setup.


 
 Cable management, easier said than done! haha.  What I don't want is to just lay all the cabling so that the audio-carrying cables start being infected by the power cables. At the least you should cross signal-carrying cables and power cables at a 90 degree angle. With 5 amps, and 5 DACS, 3 WYRDS, and 3 Behringer SRC 2496s, there's a lot of cables everywhere, and the dual-PC setup utilizing JPlay hihg-end playback software.


----------



## Doneko

tubemanrq said:


> Maybe in the future, after I save a few more pennies and dimes, I can upgrade the other 4 DACS to Yggys as well!


 
  
 Let us know when that time comes, we will buy your used Gumbys. I only need one though


----------



## TubemanRQ

doneko said:


> Let us know when that time comes, we will buy your used Gumbys. I only need one though


 
 Wellllllll, thanks for the offer!  I probably won't have a need to "recoup" money and will certainly want the AMAZING Gumbys for probably a second system, or use one for my PC gaming, etc. Also have one sitting around to schlep over to friends houses to let them hear this amazing DAC in their OWN systems.
  
 Soooo, I will probably be hanging onto my audio gear. I learned about 18 years ago to be very careful about selling audio gear. I wish I NEVER EVER EVER had sold my Theta DSPRO Progeny A Revision DAC! I had regretted it ever since, until I got these Gumbys.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Billheiser

tubemanrq said:


> Wellllllll, thanks for the offer!  I probably won't have a need to "recoup" money and will certainly want the AMAZING Gumbys for probably a second system, or use one for my PC gaming, etc. Also have one sitting around to schlep over to friends houses to let them hear this amazing DAC in their OWN systems.
> 
> Soooo, I will probably be hanging onto my audio gear. I learned about 18 years ago to be very careful about selling audio gear. I wish I NEVER EVER EVER had sold my Theta DSPRO Progeny A Revision DAC! I had regretted it ever since, until I got these Gumbys.
> 
> Cheers!


 

 I happen to have just come from a meeting about how public and private agencies can help address hoarding, when it reaches dangerous levels in a community.  Watch out for that mindset!  ("Oh, I'll keep a few more _____'s around in case 'someone else', not me, wants it...")


----------



## reddog

billheiser said:


> I happen to have just come from a meeting about how public and private agencies can help address hoarding, when it reaches dangerous levels in a community.  Watch out for that mindset!  ("Oh, I'll keep a few more _____'s around in case 'someone else', not me, wants it...")



I be a happy audio hoarder, yea can not have enough amps lol


----------



## MattTCG

reddog said:


> I be a happy audio hoarder, yea can not have enough amps lol


 
  
 You're not a hoarder RD. Nah, more of a connoisseur collector.


----------



## Billheiser

matttcg said:


> You're not a hoarder RD. Nah, more of a connoisseur collector.


 

 I'm sure you're right about that.  BTW, most hoarders think they are collectors.  Most collectors are NOT hoarders.
 My test:  a collector is proud of their collection and would like to show it to you, in part because they organize and take care of it.  But a hoarder does not want to show you his stuff, he/she is usually ashamed to show it.
 Back to topic: Schiit rocks!


----------



## gwitzel

Yes, Schiit rocks...
  
 I just came home and listened for the first time to my Gumby that came back from Schiit today after upgrade. I am completely satisfied, everything I hoped for became reality. It is somehow more precise and more present, as far as I can tell, even cold out of the box. At the same time it is smoother and less aggressive. There were recordings, especially piano, where I could hear clearly digital artifacts with the old Gungnir. Whenever a rather percussive beginning of a note had to develop all the harmonics in order to sound natural, I could hear something that I would describe as a digital shadow... maybe some people understand what I mean.
  
 However, this is gone. In the case of not so perfect recordings the Gumby does not slap the imperfections in your face. Better recordings are breathtaking. I am very happy how natural everything sounds.
  
 Just for reference, I use a Parasound P5/A23 combo and Brocksieper Minara loudspeakers, and a Lyr 2 with Amperex Bugle Boys and HD650 headphones.
  
 In the spirit of Jason Stoddard's latest chapter I can say: I arrived, no more improvements necessary. I have heard better gear, but this is as perfect and natural as I can hope to achieve. Done.
  
 Also, the service of Schiit was outstanding!! I created a logistic nightmare: I wanted to have the input selector checked out while the Gungnir was at Schitt, wanted the upgrade, ordered an European power supply for my Wyrd (I am giving it to my dad in Germany) that I wanted to have sent with the upgraded Gungnir, and needed everything to be sent to a Fedex location because people steal packages from my doorsteps. Schiit did it all, very professional and quickly. Thank you for the great support!!!!


----------



## KLJTech

I need to send in my Gungnir...I just have too many hobbies, but I will get around to it before long. 
 
Since it's still USB Gen 2 there are no driver changes when used with a PC correct? Any setting changes required with J.River MC 21? 
Thanks!


----------



## jcn3

kljtech said:


> I need to send in my Gungnir...I just have too many hobbies, but I will get around to it before long.
> 
> Since it's still USB Gen 2 there are no driver changes when used with a PC correct? Any setting changes required with J.River MC 21?
> Thanks!


 
  
 no changes required!


----------



## maxedfx

So I'm planning to get the Gumby, as far as cables go, I have zilch. So for the xlr balanced and USB cables, any monoprice cable would do or shall I order PYST along with the Gumby??

 Also I have no idea about my USB quality from my PC or laptop, so do I get a WYRD too??


----------



## vocalstrance

Any monoprice cable will do. If your USB connection is longer than the standard PYST USB cable, then you will most likely benefit from a WYRD. I have an extended USB cable, and am thinking about getting a WYRD, or switching to optical out.


----------



## lukeap69

maxedfx said:


> So I'm planning to get the Gumby, as far as cables go, I have zilch. So for the xlr balanced and USB cables, any monoprice cable would do or shall I order PYST along with the Gumby??
> 
> 
> 
> Also I have no idea about my USB quality from my PC or laptop, so do I get a WYRD too??



 


I suggest you get the Wyrd also. And cables you need. Schiit cables are reasonably priced.


----------



## TubemanRQ

maxedfx said:


> So I'm planning to get the Gumby, as far as cables go, I have zilch. So for the xlr balanced and USB cables, any monoprice cable would do or shall I order PYST along with the Gumby??
> 
> Also I have no idea about my USB quality from my PC or laptop, so do I get a WYRD too??


 

 Yes yes yes! Get the WYRD. Those are an amazing value for what they do. PC USB power is very dirty, even if you use high quality power conditioners. The PYST USB cables are also a great value and highly recommended.


----------



## TubemanRQ

OK, got Yggy in yesterday and hasn't even been 24 hours since using Yggy. Will keep you posted about Gungnir multibit vs Yggy impressions, in my system, according to my bias, with my ears.
  
 It's been about 22 hrs, and I can tell there's a greater sense of transparency and neutrality vs Gungnir multibit, focus is also very very good, but so far Yggy vs Gungnir multibit is not knocking my socks off. The two are DEFINITELY of the same familial signature.
  
 Cold out of the box Yggy  sounded open, and focused, but I've only been watching movies this last day off I had, not much music. Listened to Lorde's album in hi-res just now and there's definitely more inner detail and greater transparency than Gungnir multibit, but it's not a HUGE difference between Yggy and Gumby, but it's there. Sorry if this is a little OT.


----------



## Amictus

FWIW, I got my Gungnir back today after surgery performed by Mark Dolbear of www.electromod.co.uk to turn into a multibit version. I was very happy with the Gungnir as it was, but the difference is astounding. There is so much more to the music. Mark is also delightful to deal with.


----------



## mikoss

tubemanrq said:


> OK, got Yggy in yesterday and hasn't even been 24 hours since using Yggy. Will keep you posted about Gungnir multibit vs Yggy impressions, in my system, according to my bias, with my ears.
> 
> It's been about 22 hrs, and I can tell there's a greater sense of transparency and neutrality vs Gungnir multibit, focus is also very very good, but so far Yggy vs Gungnir multibit is not knocking my socks off. The two are DEFINITELY of the same familial signature.
> 
> Cold out of the box Yggy  sounded open, and focused, but I've only been watching movies this last day off I had, not much music. Listened to Lorde's album in hi-res just now and there's definitely more inner detail and greater transparency than Gungnir multibit, but it's not a HUGE difference between Yggy and Gumby, but it's there. Sorry if this is a little OT.


 
 Excellent impressions. I hear exactly what you describe between the two... to my ears, Gumby is slightly warmer, and has just very slightly less ability to flesh out the insane detail and atmosphere Yggy is capable of.
  
 One thing Yggdrasil did for me that I'd never heard from another DAC is an ability to allow me to hear differences in volume to a degree I never thought that the recording had captured. I heard it in voices first; being able to notice how a singer would lean into a microphone; something I'd never heard differentiated before from other DACs. It extends far beyond just vocals with the Yggdrasil though - it becomes this resolution that brings out all of the nuances in the volume and timbre of details throughout the music.
  
 Going to the Gumby, in my personal first week of listening, I had a tough time hearing that particular phenomenon. I found Gumby's warmth to smooth over that resolution... however things changed after a week for me, and Gumby started offering more and more glimpses into what I heard with the Yggy.
  
 Fast forward to now.. I went on a three week vacation and lent Gumby to a friend. Just got it back yesterday and it's been on less than 24 hours. Things are sounding very, very good to my ears. I dare say that it sounds better than it did the first week I had of listening. Any further improvements are simply musical bliss at this point. Anyway, enjoy Yggdrasil!


----------



## 333jeffery

So far, I have mixed feelings about my Gumby. On some recordings, it sounds amazing. Percussion and horns have never sounded so good to me before. However, other recordings sound so harsh it's almost painful to listen to them. These are recordings that were fine on my old Gungnir, even good sounding on it. I have 80 hours on the unit so far, and wonder if additional time will smooth out the harshness.


----------



## jfoxvol

333jeffery said:


> So far, I have mixed feelings about my Gumby. On some recordings, it sounds amazing. Percussion and horns have never sounded so good to me before. However, other recordings sound so harsh it's almost painful to listen to them. These are recordings that were fine on my old Gungnir, even good sounding on it. I have 80 hours on the unit so far, and wonder if additional time will smooth out the harshness.


 

 I have a Bimby and an Yggy.  I had similar experiences with mine initially.  The Bimby harshness went away after a day or two (hard to tell since I didn't listen to it during that period after day 1).  The Yggy took a while.  At the 1-2 week mark somewhere it stopped and hasn't been back.  Smooth sailing every since.


----------



## mikoss

333jeffery said:


> So far, I have mixed feelings about my Gumby. On some recordings, it sounds amazing. Percussion and horns have never sounded so good to me before. However, other recordings sound so harsh it's almost painful to listen to them. These are recordings that were fine on my old Gungnir, even good sounding on it. I have 80 hours on the unit so far, and wonder if additional time will smooth out the harshness.


 
 Can you explain how the recordings are sounding harsh? What amp and headphones are you using?
  
  
 I would imagine that the harshness will go away... as others have noted, there seem to be two distinct points of change with the MB Gungnir presentation from initial power up, to where it's sounding as good as it gets. I'd give it at least a good week of play time and see if things change.


----------



## 333jeffery

I have a Zana Deux and HD800's. The recordings that sound bad have a bright almost metallic edge to them. They are also very loud, I have to turn the volume way down just to stand them.


----------



## cskippy

333jeffery said:


> I have a Zana Deux and HD800's. The recordings that sound bad have a bright almost metallic edge to them. They are also very loud, I have to turn the volume way down just to stand them.


 
 They were probably mastered way to loud and pushed the limiter/limiters WAY to hard.  I've heard this too many times.  There is distortion as the waveforms are being clipped, literally chopped off at their peaks, to increase the average SPL.  Modern Pop songs are the worst at this but there are a few gems out there.


----------



## mikoss

333jeffery said:


> I have a Zana Deux and HD800's. The recordings that sound bad have a bright almost metallic edge to them. They are also very loud, I have to turn the volume way down just to stand them.


 
 I have the same setup... list some tracks if you'd like. You can also check out if it's the mastering fairly easy by taking a look at the waveform, or watching the volume using a peak meter in your player. If it's hitting 0dB like @cskippy mentioned, it will sound bad. 
  
 I've also noticed that one of my USB ports has a tendency to do this to my music after I play files with different bitrates. I have an idea this is what may be happening to you... try unplugging your USB cable going to the Gungnir, and plug it back in. Also try other ports... one of my USB ports will play music for about 1 minute and then die. The other does this "metallic" sound to the treble like you mention if I go from say 16/44 to 24/96 and then back. Unplugging/replugging is the only solution for me.
  
 I should also mention this happens on this USB port with all DACs that I have. I literally have no idea why it does this, but the computer must be altering the data or something. The Wyrd doesn't fix it, and the effect can be subtle.


----------



## edwardsean

I’m interested in both the Gumby and Yggy. The consensus seem to be that the Yggdrasil has slightly better resolution, but reports seem to contradict each other in terms of soundstage. Can anyone verify which has the overall larger soundstage?


----------



## alvin sawdust

333jeffery said:


> So far, I have mixed feelings about my Gumby. On some recordings, it sounds amazing. Percussion and horns have never sounded so good to me before. However, other recordings sound so harsh it's almost painful to listen to them. These are recordings that were fine on my old Gungnir, even good sounding on it. I have 80 hours on the unit so far, and wonder if additional time will smooth out the harshness.


 
 I am with you on this. I have around 200 hrs on my GMB and up to the 175 hr mark I didn't have a problem with the highs, but now they can be unpleasant on some tracks.
 I always give my new components and cables 500 hrs cooking time so hopefully there is time for improvement yet.


----------



## sheldaze

edwardsean said:


> I’m interested in both the Gumby and Yggy. The consensus seem to be that the Yggdrasil has slightly better resolution, but reports seem to contradict each other in terms of soundstage. Can anyone verify which has the overall larger soundstage?


 
 Yggy, but I am hesitant to answer your question.
  
 Most persons in the market for a DAC a more likely to question the value of one DAC versus another, particularly two DAC from the same manufacturer. Of course the Yggdrasil is the highest resolving, most accurate DAC from the Schiit lineup. The advantages of the Gungnir Multibit are a little less heft (if you are planning to bring to a headphone meet, or move to various places in your home - it also takes up less space), a little more warmth (very slight, but if you need that), and it consumes slightly less power (again, helps if say you're trying to attach to a UPS to bring to a headphone meet, or you plan to leave on all the time, it will consume less electricity).
  
 But the largest difference is the Yggdrasil is twice the cost of the Gungnir Multibit. If you can afford it, go for the Yggdrasil - you will regret nothing.


----------



## TubemanRQ

edwardsean said:


> I’m interested in both the Gumby and Yggy. The consensus seem to be that the Yggdrasil has slightly better resolution, but reports seem to contradict each other in terms of soundstage. Can anyone verify which has the overall larger soundstage?


 
 Well, all I can say is, 48 hours later, comparing Gumby to Yggy, the Yggy being only 48 hours old, HOLY SCHIIT!!!  It may only be "an incremental improvement" of 10% people are claiming with Yggy vs Gumby. ALL I KNOW.......is there is an immediacy, intimacy, and greater tangibility and emotional connection with the instruments, the performers, and the music as a whole with Yggy vs Gumby. Along with a greater emotional connection, the transparency and the "there in the room with you" aspect has jumped up considerably!
  
 Both are AMAZING DACs, but Yggy is in another league! This is only 48 hours in, I'm looking forward to 500 HOURS IN! I will eventually upgrade all my Gumbys to Yggys, the way this is going, I can see that right now.....but until I save my pennies and dimes, I am thoroughly enjoying Yggy on the tweeters, and Gumbys from 900Hz to 40Hz, and D/S Gungnir from 40Hz to below 20Hz.
  
 Gotta get back to listening to music!
  
 Cheers!!


----------



## edwardsean

Right, the greater transparency and immediacy of Yggdrasil is consistent with a lot of impressions circling around. Would you be able to comment on which has the greater overall soundstage dimensions?


----------



## Starchild1

I just hooked up my new Gungnir multibit.  The first disk I played (still listening to it as I type) was the 24/48 Wallflower by Diana Krall.  An excellent album that 's very well recorded.  Right out of the box, the Gumby soundstages well, strings are lush and vocals are still a little recessed but that will improve; remember this is the first 20 minutes.  My peripherals are a little different but I think they will allow the Gumby to put its best foot forward.  I'm using a YFS USB Reference data only cable feeding a Bryston Buc-1 USB to spdif converter which is in turn connected to the Gumby with a Zu Audio Ash digital cable; power cable is a Silnote Poseidon GL.  I have great expectations and I'll keep you posted.


----------



## grokit

I've got an OG Gungnir, and have been enjoying it with a V-Link 192 (XMOS). I'm about to try a different flavor of USB conversion, as I would like to use the V-Link with another DAC that accepts its AES connection. So now I have a Halide S/PDIF Bridge coming, which I've always wanted to try out. It's only 24/96, but most of my listening is via Red Book and it uses the Streamlength USB code that I've always wanted to listen to. One of these days I may upgrade my Gungnir's USB input but this is fun!


----------



## wahsmoh

tubemanrq said:


> OK, got Yggy in yesterday and hasn't even been 24 hours since using Yggy. Will keep you posted about Gungnir multibit vs Yggy impressions, in my system, according to my bias, with my ears.
> 
> It's been about 22 hrs, and I can tell there's a greater sense of transparency and neutrality vs Gungnir multibit, focus is also very very good, but so far Yggy vs Gungnir multibit is not knocking my socks off. The two are DEFINITELY of the same familial signature.
> 
> Cold out of the box Yggy  sounded open, and focused, but I've only been watching movies this last day off I had, not much music. Listened to Lorde's album in hi-res just now and there's definitely more inner detail and greater transparency than Gungnir multibit, but it's not a HUGE difference between Yggy and Gumby, but it's there. Sorry if this is a little OT.


 

 dude I never noticed the pictures you posted. I'll be honest I was a skeptic but I wasn't in complete doubt that you could own like 5 Gungnirs. I just saw the pictures and was like!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 HAHA all the disbelievers and doubters calling you out just got shut up


----------



## wahsmoh

tubemanrq said:


> Wellllllll, thanks for the offer!  I probably won't have a need to "recoup" money and will certainly want the AMAZING Gumbys for probably a second system, or use one for my PC gaming, etc. Also have one sitting around to schlep over to friends houses to let them hear this amazing DAC in their OWN systems.
> 
> Soooo, I will probably be hanging onto my audio gear. I learned about 18 years ago to be very careful about selling audio gear. *I wish I NEVER EVER EVER had sold my Theta DSPRO Progeny A Revision DAC*! I had regretted it ever since, until I got these Gumbys.
> 
> Cheers!


 
  
 If you ever go to an LA or San Diego Head-fi meet you can have your chance to hear one. I love mine to death and Mike M just recently replied to my comments in the Bifrost MB thread saying the Theta output voltage is 4V versus the standard 2V. That is why it adds volume and has a great rhythm and drive and musicality like no other.
  
 Maybe someday I'll end up selling it if I can finally win an eBay Theta Gen V-A for a good price. If I do sell it I will remember the name and the man with 5 Gungnirs: *TubemanRQ*


----------



## TubemanRQ

Thanks for the kind words!  With Yggy now, I don't miss the Theta Progeny Rev-A I used to own, and am sure I don't need to look at the Gen V-A, but those are amazing pieces and certainly have collector/vintage value and mystique. 
  
 Cheers!


----------



## bouch24

Is there some special reason why you don't split the outputs?


----------



## ahnafakeef

Hi everyone. Has anyone used a D-S Gungnir with STAX SR-009? If yes, do they pair well? Thank you.


----------



## LFC_SL

ahnafakeef said:


> Hi everyone. Has anyone used a D-S Gungnir with STAX SR-009? If yes, do they pair well? Thank you.



The Stax is an electrostatic headphone and requires an electrostatic amplifer.

Please please do further reading before buying anything and risk wasting money.


----------



## maxedfx

lfc_sl said:


> The Stax is an electrostatic headphone and requires an electrostatic amplifer.
> 
> Please please do further reading before buying anything and risk wasting money.



You are right! But he is asking about the gungnir d-s which is a dac, which can be fed into an electrostatic amp!!


----------



## mikoss

ahnafakeef said:


> Hi everyone. Has anyone used a D-S Gungnir with STAX SR-009? If yes, do they pair well? Thank you.



IMO yes, DS Gungnir can make the SR-009's sing, however I think the MB version is much better. Very linear, detailed, with beautiful, full bodied bass which really does wonders for Stax setups. The DS version really does a wonderful job with vocals in particular, but the MB version just sounds more refined, detailed and natural. All in my opinion of course. 

As for special amping, it really has nothing to do with the DAC... Swing and a miss, lol.


----------



## Chikolad

Seriously considering getting a Gumby...
  
 Received a Geek Pulse (standard) about a week and a half ago and really not happy with the sound. Mind you it's still breaking in, and I am noticing the sound changing, but as it is now, even my Modi sounds better.
  
 Is anyone using the single-ended outputs of the Gumby?
 My amp (Burson Soloist) is only single-ended and I'm wondering if there's a noticeable difference between the balanced and se outputs.


----------



## Starchild1

I've got over 125 hours in on the Gumby. It has not been turned off and has been fed signal constantly either from me playing music or a steady repeat of various burn in and test sources (Frybaby audio track, Xlo Test & Burn-In CD, Tara Lads - Cascade Noise Burn In Disk and Stereophile Test CD). I'm also using 4 Herbies Tenderfeet with one Supersonic Stabilizer on top of the dac. Signals are originating from my Dell desk top pc which is deriving power from my Furman conditioner via a Zu Audio Mother power cable (don't laugh, it make s a huge difference). The desktop also sits on 4 Herbies Tenderfeet on my component stand. I've become a firm believer in usb converters so my pc is connected to a Bryston Buc-1 USB to spdif converter via a YFS USB Reference data only cable. The BUC-1 also has a Zu Audio Mother power cable and the Gumby is using a Silnote Poseidon GL power cord. The Gumby receives its signal from the Bryston via a Zu Audio Ash spdif rca digital cable. 
  
 Now that all of that's out of the way, let say that the Gumby is awesome. The bass is very extended and articulate. Some may call it warm sounding but not detrimentally so. If you'll recall back in the day, many we're attracted to Theta dacs because of how they reproduced bass; I suspect the family lineage is shining through with the Gumby. Cymbals are metallic with plenty of air. Vocals are holographic with background singers clearly spread across the soundstage (background singers are easily understood as well). Strings are lush and acoustic guitarists are right in front of you. Pianos have the appropriate amount of percussive attack and decay (i.e. they sound like real pianos). The soundstage is deep and extended. No digital glare and no listener fatigue. The suddenness of handclaps on live disks are scary and immmersive. I know I'm writing in short clipped sentences but all I can say is I haven't heard anything I don't like. The Gumby is a musical and enjoyable piece that's worthy of your consideration. Back to the listening chair, I've been away too long already. 
  
 One more observation, I've never heard 44.1/16 standard resolution sound this good before. The music has body and makes you want to shake the proverbial booty (the real one too). Sound improvements from hirez, where present, are clearly discernible. I'm rediscovering my music collection because the resolution of the Gumby keeps pulling stuff out of the mix I hadn't heard before. For example, listening to Cassandra Wilson's Harvest Moon on New Moon Daughter in the dark can be spooky as you go deeper into the swamp like mix of cricket sounds. Great stuff!!
  
 Mike


----------



## ahnafakeef

lfc_sl said:


> The Stax is an electrostatic headphone and requires an electrostatic amplifer.
> 
> Please please do further reading before buying anything and risk wasting money.


 
 See below. And I am getting an electrostatic amplifier, the STAX SRM-323S.
  


maxedfx said:


> You are right! But he is asking about the gungnir d-s which is a dac, which can be fed into an electrostatic amp!!


 
  
  


mikoss said:


> IMO yes, DS Gungnir can make the SR-009's sing, however I think the MB version is much better. Very linear, detailed, with beautiful, full bodied bass which really does wonders for Stax setups. The DS version really does a wonderful job with vocals in particular, but the MB version just sounds more refined, detailed and natural. All in my opinion of course.
> 
> As for special amping, it really has nothing to do with the DAC... Swing and a miss, lol.


 
 Ordered the D-S Gungnir. Oh well, it's going to be my first "high-end" DAC. Not gonna regret it as long as it's not a horrible pairing with the rest of my equipment. Thanks.


----------



## sheldaze

ahnafakeef said:


> Ordered the D-S Gungnir. Oh well, it's going to be my first "high-end" DAC. Not gonna regret it as long as it's not a horrible pairing with the rest of my equipment. Thanks.


 
 Great thing about the Schiit products is you can always upgrade later, if you have the itch.
 And if you don't, you can stay happy with what you've got


----------



## vocalstrance

^ That is the route I decided to go. Replace my Modi, that feeds a Valhalla 2 and a Rag. I will get the DS and use both outputs instead of using the Valhalla 2 as a preamp and hp amp. Sometimes I prefer it and the tubes to straight up clarity. The Valhalla 2 just puts a smile on my face, I swap tubes to music and enjoy the experience. Yet as I wait for my Ragnarok's return (wouldn't turn on), I know I'll benefit from going from Modi to Gungnir DS for the Rag balanced would be great and I can upgrade later if I get the itch instead of buying a new DAC.


----------



## Sinter

I have a newbie question that I hope can be answered here.
  
 My chain:    Mac > Bifrost > HDVA 600 > Forza balanced cable > HD800.
  
 What could I expect from replacing the Bifrost with a Gungnir and running balanced into the amp? I realize that the Gungnir is the better dac and I would benefit in that regard but would the balanced connection in itself cause any improvement in sound quality?  Thanks.


----------



## thomascrown

sinter said:


> I have a newbie question that I hope can be answered here.
> 
> My chain:    Mac > Bifrost > HDVA 600 > Forza balanced cable > HD800.
> 
> What could I expect from replacing the Bifrost with a Gungnir and running balanced into the amp? I realize that the Gungnir is the better dac and I would benefit in that regard but would the balanced connection in itself cause any improvement in sound quality?  Thanks.


 
  
 Based on my experience (hrt hd and nad m51) you won't have any improvement from the balanced connection.


----------



## Dalgas

Finally! My Gungnir is back from upgrade to Gumby.
  
 I only have about 10 hours on it so far, but it is clearly better than DS Gungnir. Better separation of instruments/vocals and a better resolved and more powerfull bass. Vocals/instruments sounds more natural too.
  
 Btw the DS dac boards was returned to me and I am now wondering if I can somehow put them to use....
  
 18 hours: The Gumby sounds more musical and better resolved now. At 10 hours the treble was still a little harsh and it did not sound so involving.


----------



## hodgjy

Stupid question. Don't laugh.

I want to hook up two amps simultaneously to the Gumby, one from XLR and the other from RCA. I will only turn on one amp at a time.

What happens to the audio signal from the output trying to enter the amp that's turned off?


----------



## vocalstrance

The output will still be sent to the amp with no power, but the signal will do nothing until the amps are on. The dac and signal from it will no be effected either.


----------



## hodgjy

vocalstrance said:


> The output will still be sent to the amp with no power, but the signal will do nothing until the amps are on. The dac and signal from it will no be effected either.


 
 Thank you.
  
 So, does the amp "pull" the signal or does the dac "push" the signal? Does the signal actually enter the amp in any way while the amp is turned off?
  
 I'm mainly curious about how things work more so than any degradation in sound quality.


----------



## jcn3

hodgjy said:


> Thank you.
> 
> So, does the amp "pull" the signal or does the dac "push" the signal? Does the signal actually enter the amp in any way while the amp is turned off?
> 
> I'm mainly curious about how things work more so than any degradation in sound quality.


 
 there is voltage on the output of the dac that is also present on the input of the amp.  since there is no power to the circuit of the amp, the signal basically dies in the amp.  no harm, no noise degradation.


----------



## crazychile

hodgjy said:


> Stupid question. Don't laugh.
> 
> I want to hook up two amps simultaneously to the Gumby, one from XLR and the other from RCA. I will only turn on one amp at a time.
> 
> What happens to the audio signal from the output trying to enter the amp that's turned off?


 

 I asked Schiit about this exact issue a couple of months ago. This was Nick at Schiit said:
  
 "No problem at all as long as neither amp shorts the inputs when off. This will cause the other output to potentially not work properly."


----------



## KLJTech

Anyone know how the new multibit Gungnir DAC (the AD5781BRUZ chip itself ) compares to the Burr Brown PCM63P-K? Is the tech behind/inside them very different? I know that the PCM63 is a 20 bit DAC but should the sound quality be in the same league...in the same ballpark? 
  
 I do realize that the sound of the component is based on more than just the DAC chips used yet I'm curious as I haven't had a multibit DAC since the early 90's and it used the BB PCM63P-K's. That was the best sounding setup I've ever put together, but it was also a dedicated listening room which gave you a lot of freedom to move the speakers wherever needed to sound their best (Maggies need room to breath) so it's impossible to compare to my current system.
  
 If this is a stupid question or impossible to answer _I apologize_...love my Gungnir but I planning on updating it soon as was simply curious.


----------



## hodgjy

jcn3 said:


> there is voltage on the output of the dac that is also present on the input of the amp.  since there is no power to the circuit of the amp, the signal basically dies in the amp.  no harm, no noise degradation.


 
 Excellent, thank you!


----------



## hodgjy

crazychile said:


> I asked Schiit about this exact issue a couple of months ago. This was Nick at Schiit said:
> 
> "No problem at all as long as neither amp shorts the inputs when off. This will cause the other output to potentially not work properly."


 
 Thanks for the reply. Good information.


----------



## rigo

hodgjy said:


> Thanks for the reply. Good information.




Rookie question. How do we ensure that the amps don't short the inputs when off?


----------



## crazychile

rigo said:


> hodgjy said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the reply. Good information.
> ...


 

 Talk to the company that built your amp and ask them.
 I'm going to make the assumption that Schiit doesn't do this or Nick at Schiit would have mentioned it


----------



## porridgecup

dalgas said:


> Finally! My Gungnir is back from upgrade to Gumby.
> 
> I only have about 10 hours on it so far, but it is clearly better than DS Gungnir. Better separation of instruments/vocals and a better resolved and more powerfull bass. Vocals/instruments sounds more natural too.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just as a counter-point, I didn't notice the bass being more powerful, but I did definitely notice more instrument separation and a more "musical" sound. I feel like the bass had more impact due to some of the separation, though I didn't perceive a change in bass quality.


----------



## wahsmoh

kljtech said:


> Anyone know how the new multibit Gungnir DAC (the AD5781BRUZ chip itself ) compares to the Burr Brown PCM63P-K? Is the tech behind/inside them very different? I know that the PCM63 is a 20 bit DAC but should the sound quality be in the same league...in the same ballpark?
> 
> I do realize that the sound of the component is based on more than just the DAC chips used yet I'm curious as I haven't had a multibit DAC since the early 90's and it used the BB PCM63P-K's. That was the best sounding setup I've ever put together, but it was also a dedicated listening room which gave you a lot of freedom to move the speakers wherever needed to sound their best (Maggies need room to breath) so it's impossible to compare to my current system.
> 
> If this is a stupid question or impossible to answer _I apologize_...love my Gungnir but I planning on updating it soon as was simply curious.


 

 I own an EAD CD-1000 Series III which I recently got re-capped and repaired by Greg Palma at noble electronics. It uses 2x Burr Brown PCM63P-k but I think has a DF1704 filter or PMD100 HDCD filter. All I know is that I don't think it is a proprietary filter like the one in the Theta or new Schiit.(which makes it sound special, not just the multi-bit chip)
  
 Even if I compared it to the Gungnir MB it wouldn't be entirely fair because the Gungnir uses a filter like the one in the Theta DACs but upgraded. I'm going to the San Diego Head-fi meet on November 7th which is next Saturday and I can compare it to the Gungnir MB and tell you what I think.


----------



## Dalgas

porridgecup said:


> Just as a counter-point, I didn't notice the bass being more powerful, but I did definitely notice more instrument separation and a more "musical" sound. I feel like the bass had more impact due to some of the separation, though I didn't perceive a change in bass quality.




I have a NAD M3 amp and the fairly small but very potent Dynaudio Contour 1 mk 2 speakers. The dyns are a semiclosed konstruktion with vario-vent and they go deep (30 hz) and bass is extremly tight and dry. I Can easily tell that the Gumby-bass i very resolved, tight and powerfull - and more so than DS Gungnir. The latter I find a bit fat in the bass - probably due to lack of resolution.

But I respect your opinion....


----------



## Argo Duck

^ porridgecup does not list their gear. I wonder if the difference arises there., e.g. headphones versus speakers


----------



## gwitzel

I would like to share some experiences I had in the last two weeks with the Schiit Gungnir Multibit. Anybody who read my posts here on Head-Fi has probably realized by now that I am a huge fan of the Gumby since my first exposure to it at the Schiit-Show*. In the meantime I have substantiated my initial impression.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



#I actually won the Schiit-Show impressions competition, many thanks again to Warren, and Denise and Amy from Schiit: that was quite a surprise!


  
 I had my own Gungnir merely 3 days when I had to leave for a trip to Europe. At my parents home back in the old world, luckily, a European Gumby was waiting to be examined, which we bought for my dad as a birthday gift. Now, the exciting part is that my dad’s equipment is a whole different level, really allowing for in-depth comparison. And anyway, comparing gear is only real fun if you are with some similarly crazy people - like my dad and his friends 
  
 So we used as a testbed his 
  
 Accuphase A-100 power amps, the 
 Accuphase C-290 pre-amp, the 
 Accuphase DP-75V CD player and DAC, and the 
 Brocksieper Arabeske.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



#The Arabeske is an exquisite hand-build loudspeaker from a small German company that is… well, really good… you need to hear it, that’s all I want to say for now.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



#I don’t want to get into a discussion here if one can justify the price of Accuphase gear, if one really needs that stuff at all, or if this is indeed the ultimate test of the Gungnir; I believe the opinions about this are very wide spread and can become highly emotional. But I hope that many agree that this former top-of-the-line Accuphase equipment is very revealing. For me and my dad it was - and still is - THE setup that sound-wise does not need any improvement anymore. Sure, there are better and more expensive things. But we never again (for more than 15 years) felt the sting to seriously look into anything else, let alone had the funding to do so.
  


  
 In particular, the DP-75V is a very transparent and authoritative, but smooth, natural, warm and beautiful sounding DAC. It doesn’t produce any distractions from the music, and crates a fantastic stage with precise focus. It uses 12(!) D/S converter, 6 per channel, I believe, and was the most analogue sounding DAC I had heard at the time; almost up to par with our Transrotor turntable.
  
 However, for an independent headphone stack, and to be able to stream from a harddrive, the Gumby seemed a good solution. And boy, this turns out not only to be a contender for the headphone stack (which, by the way, consists of an HD-800 and a Brocksieper Earmax Pro).We tested:
  
 DP-75V (drive and DAC) vs. 
 DP-75V drive with Gumby (BNC coax. input) vs. 
 Mac mini + Audirvana + Wyrd + Gumby
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



#The Gumby was connected to the pre-amp with some balanced cables (I don’t know any specifics), the DP-75V single ended with very good MIT cables.


  
 We were very surprised to find that the Gumby, fed by the DP-75V drive, is just as excellent and almost identical in sound signature. The two DACs do sound very slightly different, the Accuphase a bit smoother, the Gumby a tiny bit better defined in the bass and a bit more transparent. But these differences are not in quality, they are rather a question of taste.
  
 We were furthermore almost shocked to find how much worse the USB input fed by the Mac and Audirvana sounded. I was already considering the possibility that the USB receiver just cannot replace the SPDIF input, but then remembered that Audirvana has a lot of parameters. After quite some adjustment I found a much better suited set that almost perfectly reaches the sound quality achieved by the DP-75V drive as digital source. The differences are again a slightly higher transparency for USB + well adjusted Audirvana, potentially slightly harder and colder than the Accuphase drive.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



#The parameters are:
  
 Integer Mode 1 (Mode 2 was always MUCH worse for us)
 Steepness 180
 Filter max length 1,400,000
 Cutoff freq 1,00
 Anti-aliasing 200.0
 Pre-ringing 0.97
  
 It would be great if we could make this a resource for Gumby + Audirvana owners; what is your best parameter setting? Also, can someone explain what the parameters exactly do?





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



#We also tested an older Sony CD drive as digital input for the Gungnir and were very disappointed. The source of the digital signal is indeed key.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



#One comment about high resolution files: We listened to a good recording of Dvorak’s New World Symphony with the LSO in 96kHz, 24Bit. It sounds very impressive, but not quite analogue, a bit artificial. I recently heard one DAC that clearly is in a different league than the Accuphase or the Gungnir: the Brocksieper DAW. It is the most vinyl like DAC one can imaging. Here the highres file sounds overwhelmingly like a good record. But it costs 8 times the price of the Gumby. It seems that the Gumby is optimized for red book.
  


  
*CONCLUSIONS:*
  
 1) The Gumby (at least for red book CD) is a world class DAC on an absolute scale, not only for its price, even with the most discriminating equipment. It should be able to satisfy every music enthusiast. For me it doesn’t have to be better. The price speaks for itself.
  
 2) The digital source is very important and defines if the DAC can live up to its potential. The combination of Mac, Audirvana, Wyrd, and USB2 receiver operates at virtually the same level as a state-of-the-art CD drive.


----------



## earnmyturns

gwitzel said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was puzzled by your description, as I could not conceive of any reason why a digital bit-perfect could be improved by source software settings (hardware improvements to reduce jitter or RF interference are another matter). So I checked the Audionirvana Plus 2.2 manual to understand those settings, as I don't use Audionirvana.
  
 (I stream from a NAS via UPnP and dedicated Linux/MPD-based USB renderers, here's a typical setting for the USB driver


Spoiler: SOtM sMS-100>Bel Canto mLink USB>S/SPDIF isolator/reclocker



Bel Canto uLink Bel Canto uLinkUSB Audio 2.0 at usb-orion-ehci.0-1.3, high spee : USB Audio
Playback:
Status: Stop
Interface 1
Altset 1
Format: S32_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000
Data packet interval: 125 us 


 )
 Audionirvana's Integer Mode 1 bypasses the higher levels of OS/X's Core Audio, which do signal processing intended for lower quality USB audio systems. But the rest of the settings are for the digital filter used in rate conversion, and I don't understand why your USB chain would need rate conversion at all, as the Gungnir can handle the rates/bit depths in your experiments. I wonder if there's some problem in the rate negotiation between Audionirvana+ OS/X and the Gungnir.


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## gwitzel

earnmyturns said:


> I was puzzled by your description, as I could not conceive of any reason why a digital bit-perfect could be improved by source software settings (hardware improvements to reduce jitter or RF interference are another matter). So I checked the Audionirvana Plus 2.2 manual to understand those settings, as I don't use Audionirvana.
> 
> (I stream from a NAS via UPnP and dedicated Linux/MPD-based USB renderers, here's a typical setting for the USB driver
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting... Yes, I have to admit that I don't understand this at all. I just realized it has an impact. That there are sometimes problems in the rate negotiation becomes obvious always when it plays a track too fast or slow. Restarting it helps then. Maybe I am doing something wrong here... Maybe someone who uses Audirvana + Gungnir can comment.
  
 Thanks for pointing this out.


----------



## gwitzel

Also: I don't use any forced up-sampling or so. You are right, the rate conversion should not be needed. I played mainly files with 44.1 kHz.
  
 I don't know...


----------



## Vanquisher

I'm looking to upgrade my dac equipment now. Been reading through here and it seems the Gumby is the way to go from the start. Considering that I have a Modi 2 Uber at the moment I'm sure even the DS Gungnir would be a significant upgrade. Both the DS and Gumby are within budget but I was thinking i'd go with the DS and see if that works. Upgrading is always an option it looks like. Any thoughts? Or should I just got for the Gumby?


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## US Blues

vanquisher said:


> I'm looking to upgrade my dac equipment now. Been reading through here and it seems the Gumby is the way to go from the start. Considering that I have a Modi 2 Uber at the moment I'm sure even the DS Gungnir would be a significant upgrade. Both the DS and Gumby are within budget but I was thinking i'd go with the DS and see if that works. Upgrading is always an option it looks like. Any thoughts? Or should I just got for the Gumby?


 

 Gumby.


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## Vanquisher

us blues said:


> Gumby.


 
  
 Thanks. I was hoping someone would say DS because its in stock haha. Guess I'll wait for the Gumbys to be back in.


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## reddog

us blues said:


> Gumby.



+1 Gumby would be a better choice for you.


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## jfoxvol

Gumby. Mulitbit is such a step up in performance. If it's in your budget, definitely go for it.


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## joseph69

I have the DS Gungnir USB2…would the MB be an upgrade even thoughI only listen to Cd's which are 44.1khz 16bit and imported to     my MBP into (ALAC) files? Or would the MB just benefit if you listen to SACD/Hi-Rez downloads?
 Thanks.


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## jfoxvol

Yes. I have an Yggy and a Bifrost mulitbit. The red book cd performance is unreal. CDs never sounded so good. Previous DAC was a DS gungnir. You'll be surprised the information in those CDs with a really well implemented digital filter and accurate DAC


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## joseph69

jfoxvol said:


> Yes. I have an Yggy and a Bifrost mulitbit. The red book cd performance is unreal. CDs never sounded so good. Previous DAC was a DS gungnir. You'll be surprised the information in those CDs with a really well implemented digital filter and accurate DAC


 
 Thanks for the reply.
 I guess my DS will be off to become a MB soon.


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## jfoxvol

You're welcome. I'm a giver. Don't forget to turn it on and leave it on. After a few days it'll settle in and Tada


----------



## joseph69

jfoxvol said:


> You're welcome. I'm a giver. Don't forget to turn it on and leave it on. After a few days it'll settle in and Tada


 
 Thanks for the heads-up!


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## Vanquisher

Sigh...Gumbys just had to be to OOS right now lol.


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## jfoxvol

I'm debating on upgrading mine. Maybe once I change offices and have room for my bifrost at work.


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## jfoxvol

Not to throw a monkey wrench in your plans but if you only listen to 16/44 tracks the Bifrost mulitbit would also work great. It has a ever so slightly more euphonic and warm signature. Different architecture but plays CDs great and you'd still have a DS gungnir as a spare. Just food for thought. Had this discussion on Yggy forum yesterday. Another member who made tech measurements of all three mulitbit DACs said how musical the MB bifrost was. Gungnir is no doubt a better DAC but the Bifrost was no slouch.


----------



## Vanquisher

jfoxvol said:


> Not to throw a monkey wrench in your plans but if you only listen to 16/44 tracks the Bifrost mulitbit would also work great. It has a ever so slightly more euphonic and warm signature. Different architecture but plays CDs great and you'd still have a DS gungnir as a spare. Just food for thought. Had this discussion on Yggy forum yesterday. Another member who made tech measurements of all three mulitbit DACs said how musical the MB bifrost was. Gungnir is no doubt a better DAC but the Bifrost was no slouch.


 
  
 Was thinking about picking up a MB Bifrost as well. A shame I can't find a black unit since it would go with my black mjolnir. You think MB Bifrost would be better than a DS Gungnir? I mean even if I got the DS for now and upgraded it down the road?
  
 Would you still pick the MB Bifrost if you knew you'd upgrade the DS Gungnir?


----------



## jfoxvol

Black ones pop up on occasion. Just gotta keep eyes open and check site regularly. Once I got my Yggy, my DS Gungnir for put back in its box. I haven't compared it to the MB Bifrost but did compare to uber Bifrost (close to DS gungnir sound) and not even close. MB wins. Digital filter in that thing optimizes phase and frequency so everything just sounds more real and natural. My electrical engineer mind also just gets excited about the tech inside.


----------



## jfoxvol

I don't think you'll be disappointed with either. The Gumby and Yggy are so clear and transparent. They're warts and all. The Bifrost is still clear but not as clear. It errs slightly on the side of warmth and musicality. But is its slight. There are more detailed reviews and comparison floating around here.


----------



## Vanquisher

jfoxvol said:


> I don't think you'll be disappointed with either. The Gumby and Yggy are so clear and transparent. They're warts and all. The Bifrost is still clear but not as clear. It errs slightly on the side of warmth and musicality. But is its slight. There are more detailed reviews and comparison floating around here.


 
  
 Yeah. I hear you. I think I'd end up feeling like I was leaving something on the table going with the MB Bifrost. Especailly since the DS Gungir can be upgraded. I'm debating just ordering it or holding out maybe there will be some black friday sales lol.


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## Chikolad

Everybody's talking about 16/44 with the Gumby. Is it not as good with hi-res?


----------



## shabta

chikolad said:


> Everybody's talking about 16/44 with the Gumby. Is it not as good with hi-res?


 
 I was wondering the same... If you listened to hi-res on gumby, please mention what recordings you used. Thanks!


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## Dalgas

I just upgraded my DS Gungnir USB2 to Gumby. Yes the Gumby is clearly better! I am glad i upgraded.

I have ripped all my CD's to flac. Some of the older recordings actually sounds way better than the few 96 kHz/24 bit recordings (some free downloads and one full album: Carmen Gomez - Thousand shades of blue) that I have.


----------



## Dalgas

There is a couple of comments on the USB being the weak link of the Gumby. Others that Can comment on that?

I only use USB and thought that a wyrd or audioquest jitterbug was my next upgrade, but maybe I should start looking for a good USB/spdif (or even better USB/BNC) converter instead?


----------



## Starchild1

I use a Bryston Buc-1 Usb converter.  It provides Spdif-rca (the one I use), BNC and AESBU outputs.  I actually bought 6 it months or so before I bought the Gumby. After much research, I saw the merits of doing the conversion from USB outside of the DAC box.  I also use a YFS Referenced data only USB cable to as I don't need the 5v feed from the computer..  I think this combination provides as clean a digital source as I can generate.  The Bryston is kind of pricey (I managerd to find a used one on Audiogon in excellent condition), but there are numerous good converters you can consider.  However, I would strong recommend that you look at converters that have their own power supply and don't use the 5v from the computer to power the usb converter.  You can find a reasonably current list at this link at the Well Tempered Computer.
  
  http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_SPDIF.htm


----------



## jfoxvol

dalgas said:


> There is a couple of comments on the USB being the weak link of the Gumby. Others that Can comment on that?
> 
> I only use USB and thought that a wyrd or audioquest jitterbug was my next upgrade, but maybe I should start looking for a good USB/spdif (or even better USB/BNC) converter instead?


 

 The Gen 2 USB on all current Bifrost and Gungnirs is exceptionally good.  Any improvements with Wyrd, Regen, or Jitterbug are purely source dependent.  I use Wyrd with my Bifrost and noticed some improvement.  The USB implementation in thse DACs is far better than many USB-SPDIF converters out there.  I use USB with my Bryston BDP instead of BNC SPDIF.  I found it performed just as well.  It measures very well too.  I believe there are some measurements floating around on this forum somewhere.
  
 From Schiit site: "This new USB input card for Bifrost and Gungnir improves USB performance across the board, and allows you to enjoy music encoded in 24/176.4. Featuring the C-Media CM6631A receiver and additional isolation and filtering, the Gen 2 USB input outperforms external USB-SPDIF converters that cost several times as much."


----------



## jfoxvol

chikolad said:


> Everybody's talking about 16/44 with the Gumby. Is it not as good with hi-res?


 
  
 I have a Yggy which is purportedly quote close indeed.  It works exceptionally well with hi rez recordings.  The more you feed it, the better it is (all things being equal).  The point I was making earlier was that most people haven't heard what 16/44 recordings are truly capable of.  With the proper filter and DAC, it can be truly exceptional.  Hi rez can be even better.


----------



## jfoxvol

starchild1 said:


> I use a Bryston Buc-1 Usb converter.  It provides Spdif-rca (the one I use), BNC and AESBU outputs.  I actually bought 6 it months or so before I bought the Gumby. After much research, I saw the merits of doing the conversion from USB outside of the DAC box.  I also use a YFS Referenced data only USB cable to as I don't need the 5v feed from the computer..  I think this combination provides as clean a digital source as I can generate.  The Bryston is kind of pricey (I managerd to find a used one on Audiogon in excellent condition), but there are numerous good converters you can consider.  However, I would strong recommend that you look at converters that have their own power supply and don't use the 5v from the computer to power the usb converter.  You can find a reasonably current list at this link at the Well Tempered Computer.
> 
> http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_SPDIF.htm


 

 You can never go wrong with Bryston gear.  I'm a little biased.  A dear friend of mine is one of their main designers.  Just for full disclosure.  Fully agree on the separate power.  USB power is often quite dirty.  That's why I use a Wyrd on my USB audio to get the cleanest power possible.


----------



## Starchild1

jfoxvol said:


> The Gen 2 USB on all current Bifrost and Gungnirs is exceptionally good.  Any improvements with Wyrd, Regen, or Jitterbug are purely source dependent.  I use Wyrd with my Bifrost and noticed some improvement.  The USB implementation in thse DACs is far better than many USB-SPDIF converters out there.  I use USB with my Bryston BDP instead of BNC SPDIF.  I found it performed just as well.  It measures very well too.  I believe there are some measurements floating around on this forum somewhere.
> 
> From Schiit site: "This new USB input card for Bifrost and Gungnir improves USB performance across the board, and allows you to enjoy music encoded in 24/176.4. Featuring the C-Media CM6631A receiver and additional isolation and filtering, the Gen 2 USB input outperforms external USB-SPDIF converters that cost several times as much."


 
  
 Hi Jfoxvol,
  
 Far better than many but not all.  The Bryston Buc-1 is the usb impementation from the Bryston BDP's in a separate box.  That's why your unit performs so well.
  
 Mike


----------



## jfoxvol

starchild1 said:


> Hi Jfoxvol,
> 
> Far better than many but not all.  The Bryston Buc-1 is the usb impementation from the Bryston BDP's in a separate box.  That's why your unit performs so well.
> 
> Mike


 

 Yup.  Unfortunately I only have one and use with my Yggy.  The Bifrost has to deal with my 7 year old mac as a source.  The wyrd helps a lot, even with the system optimizations that Audirvana makes while performing playback.


----------



## johndean

jfoxvol said:


> The Gen 2 USB on all current Bifrost and Gungnirs is exceptionally good.  Any improvements with Wyrd, Regen, or Jitterbug are purely source dependent.  I use Wyrd with my Bifrost and noticed some improvement.  The USB implementation in thse DACs is far better than many USB-SPDIF converters out there.  I use USB with my Bryston BDP instead of BNC SPDIF.  I found it performed just as well.  It measures very well too.  I believe there are some measurements floating around on this forum somewhere.
> 
> From Schiit site: "This new USB input card for Bifrost and Gungnir improves USB performance across the board, and allows you to enjoy music encoded in 24/176.4. Featuring the C-Media CM6631A receiver and additional isolation and filtering, the Gen 2 USB input outperforms external USB-SPDIF converters that cost several times as much."


 
 I completely agree on the USB tweakers being source dependent. With my 2009 imac the Regen makes a huge improvement with my Gungnir. 
 With my Auralic Aries,not so much.


----------



## gwitzel

earnmyturns said:


> I was puzzled by your description, as I could not conceive of any reason why a digital bit-perfect could be improved by source software settings (hardware improvements to reduce jitter or RF interference are another matter). So I checked the Audionirvana Plus 2.2 manual to understand those settings, as I don't use Audionirvana.
> 
> (I stream from a NAS via UPnP and dedicated Linux/MPD-based USB renderers, here's a typical setting for the USB driver
> 
> ...


 
  
 I really have to say that I am troubled about this; I mean, several people, who didn't know that I am playing with the parameters, asked what I had changed... I see that the file is 16bit/44.1khz, but Audirvana plays it as 24bit. Does it mean Audirvana changes the bit depth according to the abilities of the DAC? Is there iZotope involved as well?


----------



## jfoxvol

gwitzel said:


> I really have to say that I am troubled about this; I mean, several people, who didn't know that I am playing with the parameters, asked what I had changed... I see that the file is 16bit/44.1khz, but Audirvana plays it as 24bit. Does it mean Audirvana changes the bit depth according to the abilities of the DAC? Is there iZotope involved as well?


 

 I won't be back to my Mac for another day or so.  PM me and I can take some screenshots of my settings and send to you.  Maybe it will help.  The way mine is setup is sending precisely to the DAC what the file contains.


----------



## jfoxvol

johndean said:


> I completely agree on the USB tweakers being source dependent. With my 2009 imac the Regen makes a huge improvement with my Gungnir.
> With my Auralic Aries,not so much.


 

 I'm tempted to try a regen and see if it works better than the wyrd.  Not much in a hurry as the Wyrd helps a good bit and it sounds just fantastic.


----------



## Peaceofmind

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of the super combo burrito filter in the multibit Schiit DACs is that this filter does it's magic for anything less than 24/192. For 24/192 files, the super combo burrito filter is not engaged and the multibit DAC passes this file unchanged or should I say, without the close form upsampled calculations.


----------



## jfoxvol

peaceofmind said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of the super combo burrito filter in the multibit Schiit DACs is that this filter does it's magic for anything less than 24/192. For 24/192 files, the super combo burrito filter is not engaged and the multibit DAC passes this file unchanged or should I say, without the close form upsampled calculations.


 

 That's only in the Bifrost.  The MB Gungnir and Yggy upsample 192 and 176 to 384kHz and 352kH, respectively.


----------



## schneller

So RCA only: BMB vs. GMB? Who wins?


----------



## jfoxvol

schneller said:


> So RCA only: BMB vs. GMB? Who wins?


 
  
 GMB gives a much more neutral and revealing nature.  BMB is slightly (I mean a tad) more of warm/euphonic presentation.  I can't compare directly but I have an Yggy running balanced (mostly) and a BMB.  It GMB still has 19 versus 16 bits so higher res recordings will resolve better.  It also has higher oversampling rate than BMB.  Short answer, it depends.
  
 edit - GMB should still be more resolving in single ended than the BMB.


----------



## Baldr

chikolad said:


> Everybody's talking about 16/44 with the Gumby. Is it not as good with hi-res?


 

 The way the megaburrito filter works iis that it converts all 16 bit 44.1/48 files to 352.8/384 19 bit hi-res files of its own.  The reason it sounds the way it does is because our filter is better than the filter used to convert up16 bit 44.1/48 to hi-res.  Native 96K and 192K hi-res files will still benefit from the megaburrito filter.


----------



## schneller

It's almost as if you're saying musical vs analytical? BMB vs. GMB.


----------



## sheldaze

schneller said:


> So RCA only: BMB vs. GMB? Who wins?


 
 Are you looking for consensus, or just anyone who has heard both to chime in?
 I bought GMB, and listened to it single-ended. I upgraded my Bifrost to BMB, placed it into the same music system as the GMB was, and sold it. GMB wins to my ears.
  


schneller said:


> It's almost as if you're saying musical vs analytical? BMB vs. GMB.


 
 BMB, GMB, and YGGY are all very musical. I would not call any of these DAC analytical. They are all resolving yet moving, human and passionate - you feel the music. It takes much effort to start thinking about the music in an analytical way.


----------



## schneller

I am looking for consensus among those who have extensive listening time with the BMB and GMB, especially with RCA (SE) output only. Which do they prefer? Cost is not an issue. XLR/balanced output not an issue.


----------



## prismstorm

When will USB Gen 3 Input Modules trickle down to Gungnir Multibit? I live in Asia and would of course want to avoid ordering it waiting for it to ship from the US then sending it back just to have the USB upgraded, especially since it is already used in the Yggy and is an actual existing thing. Can USB 3 be ordered as an extra option?


----------



## Chikolad

baldr said:


> The way the megaburrito filter works iis that it converts all 16 bit 44.1/48 files to 352.8/384 19 bit hi-res files of its own.  The reason it sounds the way it does is because our filter is better than the filter used to convert up16 bit 44.1/48 to hi-res.  Native 96K and 192K hi-res files will still benefit from the megaburrito filter.


 
  
 Thanks for the clarification Mike!


----------



## vrapan

Hello everybody , stupid question from a newbie, is it possible to connect an iPhone to the biifrost MB? I'd like to use tidal with it and output through my Vorzuge Pure II+. Any comments much appreciated.


----------



## sheldaze

vrapan said:


> Hello everybody , stupid question from a newbie, is it possible to connect an iPhone to the biifrost MB? I'd like to use tidal with it and output through my Vorzuge Pure II+. Any comments much appreciated.


 
 Do you have the CCK? And is it still not recognizing it?
  
 What I do not know is if you need some kind of a powered hub between the phone and the Schiit DAC. I know a person at our meet does this, but I did not look to see if it he also used a hub.


----------



## sheldaze

schneller said:


> I am looking for consensus among those who have extensive listening time with the BMB and GMB, especially with RCA (SE) output only. Which do they prefer? Cost is not an issue. XLR/balanced output not an issue.


 
 Also there is a meet this Saturday, where we should have at least one of each, BMB, GMB, and YGGY. PM me if you do not have the link.


----------



## MattTCG

Anyone with jriver and Gumby? What settings are recommended for jriver?


----------



## jcn3

matttcg said:


> Anyone with jriver and Gumby? What settings are recommended for jriver?


 
  
 i use my gumby with jriver.  i'm using mostly the default setting -- schiit usb device (wasapi), left bit depth as "auto" (note that jriver send 32 bit to the dac in this mode), but have changed the output sampling rate to 88.2k for 44.1k sources.   i know schiit thinks leaving in native resolution is best, but i find the soundstage is a bit more defined and instruments a bit more textured.


----------



## hodgjy

Going back to a question posed earlier--
  
 Is the "normal" design for an amp to not short the inputs on power off? Or, is it completely random and variable depending on the design? 
  
 I want to hook up my Gumby to two different amps at the same time, but will only power one on a time.


----------



## jcn3

hodgjy said:


> Going back to a question posed earlier--
> 
> Is the "normal" design for an amp to not short the inputs on power off? Or, is it completely random and variable depending on the design?
> 
> I want to hook up my Gumby to two different amps at the same time, but will only power one on a time.


 
  
 you can use both outputs simultaneously.  i have the balanced outputs going to my integrated and the single ended going to my headphone amp.  only use one at a time and there's no problem.


----------



## hodgjy

jcn3 said:


> you can use both outputs simultaneously.  i have the balanced outputs going to my integrated and the single ended going to my headphone amp.  only use one at a time and there's no problem.


 
 Awesome, thank you. I'm following up the question from earlier because Nick at Schiit said it will work as long as the off amp doesn't short the inputs when off. I'm not sure how to tell if an amp shorts the input.


----------



## JK-47

I have my Gumby's balanced outputs feading my MJ2, and SE outputs feeding my Elekit simultaneuosly, both powered on with no troubles.


----------



## schneller

sheldaze said:


> Also there is a meet this Saturday, where we should have at least one of each, BMB, GMB, and YGGY. PM me if you do not have the link.




Where does it take place?


----------



## vocalstrance

SF at Massdrop.


----------



## kstuart

jcn3 said:


> matttcg said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone with jriver and Gumby? What settings are recommended for jriver?
> ...


 

 Your advice is contrary to everyone else's.
  
 One of the big advantages of the Gungnir Multibit is the custom closed form oversampling filter.  Its output is correct at every point.
  
 Comparisons have been done of the Jriver upsampling vs Schiit's closed form oversampling filter and the Schiit internal filter was found clearly better.
  
 Note that minor inaccuracies can give apparently "improved" sound (much like boosting the treble can sometimes make recordings sound clearer).
  
 All Jriver Output Format settings should be set to "No change" (except the ones below 44.1, and above 384).


----------



## sheldaze

schneller said:


> Where does it take place?


 

 Sent you PM.


----------



## jcn3

kstuart said:


> Your advice is contrary to everyone else's.
> 
> One of the big advantages of the Gungnir Multibit is the custom closed form oversampling filter.  Its output is correct at every point.
> 
> ...


 
  
 hey, ymmv.  welcome to the internet and the world of opinions.


----------



## jfoxvol

Sorry, but you must conform.  Go Vols.


----------



## jcn3

jfoxvol said:


> Sorry, but you must conform.  Go Vols.


 
  
 definitely, Go Vols!


----------



## TubemanRQ

hodgjy said:


> Awesome, thank you. I'm following up the question from earlier because Nick at Schiit said it will work as long as the off amp doesn't short the inputs when off. I'm not sure how to tell if an amp shorts the input.


 
 Hi!
  
     You can take a multimeter with the "continuity" setting and, assuming you are testing single-ended inputs, connect one lead to the ground of the input, outer part of the RCA connector, and the other lead to the center "hot" and see if you have continuity. Check this when you turn the amp off without any other connections to the inputs. This should give you an indication if they are shorted when you turn the amp off. I think it's rare that an amp does this, but I guess it is a possibility.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## hodgjy

tubemanrq said:


> Hi!
> 
> You can take a multimeter with the "continuity" setting and, assuming you are testing single-ended inputs, connect one lead to the ground of the input, outer part of the RCA connector, and the other lead to the center "hot" and see if you have continuity. Check this when you turn the amp off without any other connections to the inputs. This should give you an indication if they are shorted when you turn the amp off. I think it's rare that an amp does this, but I guess it is a possibility.
> 
> Cheers!




Awesome, thank you. Now I need to dig up my multimeter and see if it has those settings.


----------



## kstuart

This sentence from today's Computer Audiophile review of Yggdrasil, more eloquently explains why the Jriver upconverting might be more initially "pleasing" than the more accurate Gungnir internal filter oversampling:
  
 " Another impression I received when comparing the Yggdrasil to the sound of other DACs, is that the other DACs reminded me of an old boombox I had in the 1980s that had a setting called ST-WIDE. The Toshiba boombox had a setting for Mono, Stereo, and ST-WIDE (Link). When using the ST-WIDE setting the sound grew much larger in an inauthentic manner that was pleasing for a little while and would have been really neat had I never heard what the normal Stereo setting sounded like. "
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/670-schiit-audio-yggdrasil-multibit-dac-review/


----------



## Cha Cha Cha

Gungir competitors?
 Is there a DAC with similar characteristics (balanced/dual chip/ XLR/ upgraable) within the price range of the Schiit's?
  
 Have only read about a Rotel model (though not much info about it) and out of my price range DACs like the Da Vinci or the MSB line.


----------



## Cha Cha Cha

*edit


----------



## hodgjy

cha cha cha said:


> Gungir competitors?
> Is there a DAC with similar characteristics (balanced/dual chip/ XLR/ upgraable) within the price range of the Schiit's?
> 
> Have only read about a Rotel model (though not much info about it) and out of my price range DACs like the Da Vinci or the MSB line.




Not quite all of your wants, but look into Wyred 4 Sound.


----------



## Cha Cha Cha

All the more impressive of the Schiit as a bargain, considering it's features.


----------



## jcn3

kstuart said:


> This sentence from today's Computer Audiophile review of Yggdrasil, more eloquently explains why the Jriver upconverting might be more initially "pleasing" than the more accurate Gungnir internal filter oversampling:
> 
> " Another impression I received when comparing the Yggdrasil to the sound of other DACs, is that the other DACs reminded me of an old boombox I had in the 1980s that had a setting called ST-WIDE. The Toshiba boombox had a setting for Mono, Stereo, and ST-WIDE (Link). When using the ST-WIDE setting the sound grew much larger in an inauthentic manner that was pleasing for a little while and would have been really neat had I never heard what the normal Stereo setting sounded like. "
> 
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/670-schiit-audio-yggdrasil-multibit-dac-review/




Of course, that quote was not referring to jriver, up sampling, bit depth, over sampling or anything resembling that . . . The quote is comparing perceived air in sigma-delta converters vs. the Multibit architecture of the Yggy.


----------



## kstuart

It's an explanation of *pleasing sound improvement that is not in the original recording .  *The example is from an entirely analog device, the point is that it is a good example.
  
 Only hours ago, the designer of the Gungnir stated in this very thread:
  
 " The way the megaburrito filter works iis that it converts all 16 bit 44.1/48 files to 352.8/384 19 bit hi-res files of its own.  The reason it sounds the way it does is *because our filter is better than the filter used to convert up* 16 bit 44.1/48 to hi-res. "
  
 I don't think he did hours of work so people could bypass his filter.


----------



## jfoxvol

kstuart said:


> It's an explanation of *pleasing sound improvement that is not in the original recording . * The example is from an entirely analog device, the point is that it is a good example.
> 
> Only hours ago, the designer of the Gungnir stated in this very thread:
> 
> ...




This and your last several posts are quite argumentative. Now we are at red and bold. Honestly, dude just said agree to disagree and then two more argumentative posts. Honestly, I think this is in bad taste and probably in violation of some forum rules. Let's keep it clean and polite.


----------



## kstuart

jfoxvol said:


> This and your last several posts are quite argumentative. Now we are at red and bold. Honestly, dude just said agree to disagree and then two more argumentative posts. Honestly, I think this is in bad taste and probably in violation of some forum rules. Let's keep it clean and polite.


 
 I just think it is counterproductive, when someone asked for a recommendation on what to do with the Gungnir, and the answer was to bypass one of the most important features.
  
 My post with the analogy taken from the Yggdrasil review did not mention any other posters.
  
 At this point, I'm happy to let it stand at this, but I also am fine with everyone saying whatever they like in reply.


----------



## jfoxvol

Let's all have a beer and listen to some music


----------



## reddog

jfoxvol said:


> Let's all have a beer and listen to some music



Yes a good beer and listen to some great music. I am going to have a can of circus city IPA and shot of dark rum. Single malt scotch is getting to expensive lately.


----------



## jcn3

kstuart said:


> I just think it is counterproductive, when someone asked for a recommendation on what to do with the Gungnir, and the answer was to bypass one of the most important features.
> 
> My post with the analogy taken from the Yggdrasil review did not mention any other posters.
> 
> At this point, I'm happy to let it stand at this, but I also am fine with everyone saying whatever they like in reply.




Dude, if you go read my original post, I didn't give a recommendation, I just said what I did. I even said it was contrary to what was recommended by Schiit.

This is not a black and white hobby.

BTW - you haven't said whether you have a Gumby or heard one or have compared the settings in jriver. What's the story?


----------



## ToTo Man

jcn3 said:


> The quote is comparing perceived air in sigma-delta converters vs. the Multibit architecture of the Yggy.


 
  
 A few weeks ago I had Gungnir Multibit, Mjolnir 2, and Ether, on home demo (lucky me!).  The combination of all three provided me with by far the finest listening experience I've had to date.  
  
 However when I installed Gumby into my main HiFi system along side my existing D/S Bifrost Uber and performed real-time A/B switching between the two, the results were mixed.  Gumby sounded more relaxed and fluid, with increased space and depth (the soundstage moved backward behind the speakers), but Bifrost Uber had more immediacy and sparkle which gave the impression of superior crispness and clarity.  I didn't know why this was at the time, but my findings would appear to be consistent with those of the author of the CA review of Yggy, who notes the lack of perceived air in multibit DACs compared to D/S due to the absence of pre- and post-ringing in the former.  
  
 I'm not disputing that the multibit presentation is the more accurate one, but it seems that in my system the flaws of the D/S presentation are actually beneficial in livening things up.  I don't know if this is due to inadequate resolving capabilities in my amplification, loudspeakers, or the possibility that I have over-treated my room with absorption to lower reverb times and thus reduce bass boom.  
  
 To those who have been fortunate enough to audition Bimby, Gumby and Yggy, what differences are there in the tonal presentations between all three?  Which is the perceived crispest/clearest/airiest sounding, if not the most accurate, of the three?  I've heard people describe Gumby as "warmer and more euphonic" than Yggy, but I don't know how to interpret this with regards to how the high frequencies are presented.


----------



## reddog

toto man said:


> A few weeks ago I had Gungnir Multibit, Mjolnir 2, and Ether, on home demo (lucky me!).  The combination of all three provided me with by far the finest listening experience I've had to date.
> 
> However when I installed Gumby into my main HiFi system along side my existing D/S Bifrost Uber and performed real-time A/B switching between the two, the results were mixed.  Gumby sounded more relaxed and fluid, with increased space and depth (the soundstage moved backward behind the speakers), but Bifrost Uber had more immediacy and sparkle which gave the impression of superior crispness and clarity.  I didn't know why this was at the time, but my findings would appear to be consistent with those of the author of the CA review of Yggy, who notes the lack of perceived air in multibit DACs compared to D/S due to the absence of pre- and post-ringing in the former.
> 
> ...



I have listened to the GMB and the Yggdrasil. And thev Yggy has more detailed high frequency sound, that allows the overall sound signature to be so neutral, resolving and detailed, yet remain so musical and engaging. I agree the Gumby is warmer and more euphoric sounding do to the lack of such fine micro high frequency detail. The Gumby is not as crispy and resolving sounding as the Yggy. The Yggy has better overall tonality and transparency of the sound than the Gumby.


----------



## ToTo Man

reddog said:


> I have listened to the GMB and the Yggdrasil. And thev Yggy has more detailed high frequency sound, that allows the overall sound signature to be so neutral, resolving and detailed, yet remain so musical and engaging. I agree the Gumby is warmer and more euphoric sounding do to the lack of such fine micro high frequency detail. The Gumby is not as crispy and resolving sounding as the Yggy. The Yggy has better overall tonality and transparency of the sound than the Gumby.


 
 Thanks for that reddog, I fear my wallet is going to be taking a huge hit in the near future!...


----------



## johndean

reddog said:


> I have listened to the GMB and the Yggdrasil. And thev Yggy has more detailed high frequency sound, that allows the overall sound signature to be so neutral, resolving and detailed, yet remain so musical and engaging. I agree the Gumby is warmer and more euphoric sounding do to the lack of such fine micro high frequency detail. The Gumby is not as crispy and resolving sounding as the Yggy. The Yggy has better overall tonality and transparency of the sound than the Gumby.


 
 I have a GMB and Yggy and I agree with everything you say here. That's not saying the GMB is a slouch .It is much better than the Delta Sigma version
 and at its price point I dont know of any dac that can beat it. 
  
 Is it worth spending an extra 1 k for the Yggy? Absolutely ,if you have the extra 1 k .


----------



## schneller

johndean said:


> I have a GMB and Yggy and I agree with everything you say here. That's not saying the GMB is a slouch .It is much better than the Delta Sigma version
> and at its price point I dont know of any dac that can beat it.
> 
> Is it worth spending an extra 1 k for the Yggy? Absolutely ,if you have the extra 1 k .


 
  
 Yes, but the value equation is always tricky. Does the GMB buy 75% of the Yggy for $1K less? 25%? 90%? 50%?  And then enter the Mojo for $600. How does it stack up?


----------



## Vanquisher

Bumping back up my Q. So I've decided I'd probably like to keep my next dac upgrade probably around the DS Gungnir $ range. I'm leaning towards just picking up the DS Gungnir will full intentions probably within the next few months of sending it back for an upgrade to multibit. I'm also hoping if I do that and hold out they'll have a USB3 upgrade option as well.
  
 Guess my Q is would you guys go for the DS Gung if you had full intentions of upgrading or go Bimby? My only reservation of going with the Bimby is I know i'd be leaving a bit on the table. But IMO coming from my Modi 2 Uber i'm sure either will be significant upgrades.


----------



## kstuart

All of these questions are relying on the issue of money ($$).
  
 The three DACs offer increasing sound quality for increasing price.  Which one to buy is dependent solely on your *budget *- not on the DACs.
  
 It's just a question of whether you want to spend $600 on a DAC or $1250 or $2200 - and what that means for everything else in your life that also requires money.
  
 From atomicbob's reviews of all three DACs, it is clear that spending more gets you improved sound, but the Multibit Bifrost still gets you the "multibit sound" - atomicbob was happy to spend hours listening to the Multibit Bifrost, even though he had the other ones on hand.  atomicbob states:
  


> Then there is the Bimby. For the last seven days I've spent almost all of my disposable time listening to the Bifrost MB and asking myself, do I really need the extra resolution of Gumby for most of my listening enjoyment? Plenty to enjoy about this DAC. So get a Bimby and go explore your library. Be prepared to hear things you never experienced before.


 
  
 Other than that, you will have to go to a Meet (you can find announcements here on head-fi) to hear for yourself.
  
_@Vanquisher- If you get a DS Gungnir and then update it to MB, the total cost is more.  Jason said that USB3 is only for Yggy (and it's possible that there are logistical reasons for that - it may not fit the connectors on other DACs or it may be too big for them)._


----------



## Vanquisher

kstuart said:


> All of these questions are relying on the issue of money ($$).
> 
> The three DACs offer increasing sound quality for increasing price.  Which one to buy is dependent solely on your *budget *- not on the DACs.
> 
> ...



 
Makes sense. Again its not the loot that is the issue for me its more than coming from a Modi 2, yeah I could buy a 1200 dollar dac but who knows what i'd be missing if I never heard it. Bimby probably is a nice upgrade. I only say that too because frankly there is a lot of percieved value between bimby and gumby for me anyway. Looking for those that have had both to chime in on the worth of that upgrade taking into consideration the majority of my listening is done on casually. Mainly on spotify but I do have my stash of flac. I mean I'm a bit new to this so at some point if your not increasing the quality of the music your listening to does the more expensive hardware still make as noticeable a difference as it could say on lossless material?
 
I was thinking though would there be any benefit to running balanced out of gungnir into my mjolnir?


----------



## hodgjy

vanquisher said:


> I was thinking though would there be any benefit to running balanced out of gungnir into my mjolnir?


 
 From my review of the Gumby:
  
*3. The unbalanced outputs are not crippled at all. *Several are reporting the Gumby's unbalanced outputs "clearly" lack behind the balanced ones. This is false. My Teac HA-501 is a single-ended amp, but can accept both unbalanced and balanced connections. I tried them both when using the Gumby. So, I had either the Gumby or the Teac do the summing. I could tell no difference between the connection type, and assuming my Teac isn't a piece of junk (it's not, it's a fabulous amp), it's because there isn't a difference at the human hearing level. Obviously, use balanced if you have an amp that receives them. Otherwise, use unbalanced without any fears at all.


----------



## Vanquisher

hodgjy said:


> From my review of the Gumby:
> 
> [COLOR=3B3B3B]*3. The unbalanced outputs are not crippled at all. *Several are reporting the Gumby's unbalanced outputs "clearly" lack behind the balanced ones. This is false. My Teac HA-501 is a single-ended amp, but can accept both unbalanced and balanced connections. I tried them both when using the Gumby. So, I had either the Gumby or the Teac do the summing. I could tell no difference between the connection type, and assuming my Teac isn't a piece of junk (it's not, it's a fabulous amp), it's because there isn't a difference at the human hearing level. Obviously, use balanced if you have an amp that receives them. Otherwise, use unbalanced without any fears at all.[/COLOR]




Thanks!


----------



## Turn&cough

I've been holding off buying a new DAC since last spring. The idea of paying $2000-2500 was the main reason.
  
 I had been looking mainly at Chord 2Qute and Aqua La Voce being under the impression that the Yggy was a bit of a letdown. Thin sounding, needing long warm ups, and lacking bass. I was off the forums all summer and have only recently started looking again. The Computer Audiophile rave review kind of surprised me and got me digging for more opinions which of course landed me here. 
  
 To me the Yggy is definitely out of my budget but the Gumby is starting to look really good and about $500 less than the 2Qute. In addition comparisons of the two seem to slightly favor the Gumby. Seems like a no brainer and considering the law of diminishing returns I figure it's probably closer to the Yggy than its price suggests. I suspect it's more than 75% as good as a previous poster mentioned.
  
 What I'm now wondering is if it's in a different league as my aging modded EE Minimax or is it just marginally better and the money could be better spent elsewhere...
  
 End of ramblings


----------



## sheldaze

vanquisher said:


> I was thinking though would there be any benefit to running balanced out of gungnir into my mjolnir?


 
  
  


hodgjy said:


> From my review of the Gumby:
> 
> *3. The unbalanced outputs are not crippled at all. *Several are reporting the Gumby's unbalanced outputs "clearly" lack behind the balanced ones. This is false. My Teac HA-501 is a single-ended amp, but can accept both unbalanced and balanced connections. I tried them both when using the Gumby. So, I had either the Gumby or the Teac do the summing. I could tell no difference between the connection type, and assuming my Teac isn't a piece of junk (it's not, it's a fabulous amp), it's because there isn't a difference at the human hearing level. Obviously, use balanced if you have an amp that receives them. Otherwise, use unbalanced without any fears at all.


 
 I understand that the unbalanced outputs of the Gungnir are in no way crippled. I ran this way happily 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 But if you're running from a balanced DAC into a balanced amplifier, why connect them via single-ended cables? Even if it is not crippled?
  
 The benefit I think would just be shorter electronics path. Instead of first being converted back to single-ended for output from the Gungnir, then in the Mjolnir being converted back to balanced again, just connect to the two boxes via a balanced cable - good to go


----------



## Liu Junyuan

jfoxvol said:


> Sorry, but you must conform.  Go Vols.


 
  
  


jcn3 said:


> definitely, Go Vols!


 
 Lol. I am currently at UT as a graduate student. Go Vols! I mean...go Gumby!


----------



## Dalgas

vanquisher said:


> Bumping back up my Q. So I've decided I'd probably like to keep my next dac upgrade probably around the DS Gungnir $ range. I'm leaning towards just picking up the DS Gungnir will full intentions probably within the next few months of sending it back for an upgrade to multibit. I'm also hoping if I do that and hold out they'll have a USB3 upgrade option as well.
> 
> Guess my Q is would you guys go for the DS Gung if you had full intentions of upgrading or go Bimby? My only reservation of going with the Bimby is I know i'd be leaving a bit on the table. But IMO coming from my Modi 2 Uber i'm sure either will be significant upgrades.


 
  
 I bought my Gungnir DS a few weeks before the Multibit was launched and had it for several months before I upgraded. I really like the DS and was very much in doubt if I should upgrade or not.
  
 Now I have the Gumby and it is really good, but rather than just being an upgrade I feel I've got a totally different DAC now. The DS had a charming - allthough not correct - way of reproducing music. It is hard to explain but I guess it is the "DS sound" and I understand why some like it.
  
 The Gumby has a totally different approach to things. It reproduces music more correct - instruments and voices sounds more natural, more resolved and far better defined. I really really love the Gumby - but sometimes I miss a little of that special something that the DS Gungnir possess. But I don't miss anything else...especialy not the little yet distinctive harshness of the treble.
  
 So far my Gumby only has about 60 hours on the clock so mayby - probably - it will get even better.


----------



## Starchild1

My experience has been that you really don't visit the fields of Elysium until you get past about 350 hours or so.  I've been using a variety of burn in signals but I think the Tara Labs Cascade noise burn in disk has been most effective.  You can down load it from there website here:
  
 http://www.taralabs.com/cascade-noise-burn-in
  
 If your using a computer as your source, it's a pretty painless way to send constant signal to the Gumby.


----------



## johndean

dalgas said:


> I bought my Gungnir DS a few weeks before the Multibit was launched and had it for several months before I upgraded. I really like the DS and was very much in doubt if I should upgrade or not.
> 
> Now I have the Gumby and it is really good, but rather than just being an upgrade I feel I've got a totally different DAC now. The DS had a charming - allthough not correct - way of reproducing music. It is hard to explain but I guess it is the "DS sound" and I understand why some like it.
> 
> ...




There is nothing that the DS Gungnir possesses that trumps the MB Gungnir .


----------



## vocalstrance

Except price, or we'd all have a Yggy.


----------



## P4UL

Actually I read a blind test of MB Gungnir vs the Yggdrasil, and 2 out of three test put the MB Gungnir ahead! Granted this was on a speaker system. The review stated that the Gungnir MB had a better sound stage and more warmth. Where the Yggdrasil has more accuracy and less sound stage. Just some food for thought!


----------



## P4UL

The reviews concluded that if they didn't already own the Yggdrasil that they would buy the Gungnir MB and pocket the extra cash. Not saying one was better than the other. Just that they excel in different areas!


----------



## Dalgas

Link please!


----------



## ToTo Man

p4ul said:


> Actually I read a blind test of MB Gungnir vs the Yggdrasil, and 2 out of three test put the MB Gungnir ahead! Granted this was on a speaker system. The review stated that the Gungnir MB had a better sound stage and more warmth. Where the Yggdrasil has more accuracy and less sound stage. Just some food for thought!


 
  
 Would it be valid to liken the differences in spatial presentation between Gumby and Yggy to the differences in spatial presentation between Mjolnir 2 running tubes and Mjolnir 2 running LISST?  Or is this an apples vs oranges comparison?  I must preferred the sound of Mjolnir 2 with the stock tubes than with LISST.  The tubes presented a far more engaging/enveloping/immersive sound IMO.  The LISST, on the other hand, whilst being very neutral and fast, had flattened dimensionality.


----------



## P4UL

dalgas said:


> Link please!




http://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/12178-schiit-yggdrasil/?page=8


----------



## P4UL

toto man said:


> Would it be valid to liken the differences in spatial presentation between Gumby and Yggy to the differences in spatial presentation between Mjolnir 2 running tubes and Mjolnir 2 running LISST?  Or is this an apples vs oranges comparison?  I must preferred the sound of Mjolnir 2 with the stock tubes than with LISST.  The tubes presented a far more engaging/enveloping/immersive sound IMO.  The LISST, on the other hand, whilst being very neutral and fast, had flattened dimensionality.




I believe the amp they used was a solid state, so it would be like apples to oranges.


----------



## P4UL

In the review they have a black Yggdrasil. I only wish they offered their products in black all the time, it's oh so sexy!!


----------



## ToTo Man

p4ul said:


> I believe the amp they used was a solid state, so it would be like apples to oranges.


 
 Sorry for the confusion, I was trying to obtain a hypothetical comparison.  I've heard Mjolnir 2 with stock tubes and LISST.  I've also heard Gumby.  But I haven't heard Yggy.  So I was wondering if Gumby sounded a bit like Mjolnir 2 with tubes, and Yggy sounded a bit like Mjolnir 2 with LISST?


----------



## Peaceofmind

The blind test used the Placette Audio Passive Line Stage which is single ended RCA, just wondering if results would have been different if they used a fully balance system. The Yggy is suppose to shine using balance output.


----------



## P4UL

peaceofmind said:


> The blind test used the Placette Audio Passive Line Stage which is single ended RCA, just wondering if results would have been different if they used a fully balance system. The Yggy is suppose to shine using balance output.




That's interesting because both systems are said to run better balanced. Actually, I have heard that the GMB run worse single ended due to the architecture. So this test is like fighting with one arm tied behind your back! Good observation.


----------



## P4UL

And just to clarify the GMD running worse single ended statement. I read a review about Bifrost MB sounding better single ended than the GMD single ended.


----------



## gevorg

Worse measurements than balanced does not necessarily mean subpar sonic performance. I use Gumby's SE outputs for Airmotiv 5s monitors and the sound is sublime, very easy to stop thinking about specs and just enjoy the music.


----------



## P4UL

gevorg said:


> Worse measurements than balanced does not necessarily mean subpar sonic performance. I use Gumby's SE outputs for Airmotiv 5s monitors and the sound is sublime, very easy to stop thinking about specs and just enjoy the music.



I'm not talking about measurements. The statement was in regards to a comparison of sound between the BMB and GMB, where the reviewer stated the BMB sounded better single ended than the GMB single ended, where the balanced out of the GMB blew away the BMB (granted tiny differences in audio quality tend to get blown up in reviews).


----------



## gevorg

Link to said review? 





p4ul said:


> gevorg said:
> 
> 
> > Worse measurements than balanced does not necessarily mean subpar sonic performance. I use Gumby's SE outputs for Airmotiv 5s monitors and the sound is sublime, very easy to stop thinking about specs and just enjoy the music.
> ...




Yep!


----------



## P4UL

gevorg said:


> Link to said review?
> Yep!




Looking for it, but it's on this site under one of the Bifrost Threads. I'll try to find it but it's a lot of pages to go thru.


----------



## MattTCG

reddog said:


> Yes a good beer and listen to some great music. I am going to have a can of circus city IPA and shot of dark rum. Single malt scotch is getting to expensive lately.


 
  
 Point taken. I'm having a shot of Patrone and pint of Yeungling. Makes me feel warm, fuzzy and happy all over.


----------



## prismstorm

Looking to gradually purchase a Gumby-Mjolnir 2 stack to drive some Audezes, but want to take it one step at a time. Aside from eased financial strains, it would allow me to truly appreciate the margin of upgrade for each component acquired. 
  
 As I'm looking to get the Chord Mojo first (for iem usage and driving light cans) is it better to to get Mjolnir 2 first because Mojo can already be used as the DAC portion and line out to MJ2, but if I get Gumby first I can't bypass the Mojo's DAC and I will still be left under-powered for hungry cans?  
  
 What I worry about though is the discrepancy in burn-in this will result in. My MJ2 would be burned in for months before a fresh Gumby is added to the stack, and if I proceed to use them together the Gumby would always be behind. Would this be a problem? Should I acquire and use both from the get-go?


----------



## Liu Junyuan

You should not worry about burning in components at the same time. Each will plateau/reach their max potential within a finite number of hours. Also, the tubes you buy for the Mjo2 will probably need the most time for burn-in anyways. And since people buy aftermarket tubes all the time while other components have in chain have already stabilized, this question should be the least of your concerns. With the Schiit multibit DACs, its less a matter of burning in than it is for internal components to reach their optimal temperature, which may be more or less reset upon turning the unit off. 

Tough call on which you buy first. Im tempted to say get the amp first, but I say so reluctantly, as the Gumby has been arguably the most noticeable change in my chain other than the transducer itself.


----------



## hodgjy

I spent years trying to cure my system of digititus. I tried all kinds of different tube dacs, buffers, and amps themselves. Then I even tried headphones with rolled off treble. None of them cured the problem. 

The Gumby did immediately. Music sounds like music again. Cymbals sound like cymbals. 

The dac would be suggestion for first purchase.


----------



## wahsmoh

p4ul said:


> That's interesting because both systems are said to run better balanced. Actually, I have heard that the GMB run worse single ended due to the architecture. So this test is like fighting with one arm tied behind your back! Good observation.


 
 Anyone know the output voltage of the Gungnir MB RCAs? That might explain why you are hearing what you are hearing. I know my Theta has a 4V output on the single-ended RCAs which is much higher than normal. Also the Questyle CMA800i I heard at the San Diego Head-fi meet supposedly has a 4V output on the RCA single-ended and 6.3V balanced output voltage. The Bifrost MB is standard 2V and doesn't have the passive preamp boost of my Theta.


----------



## prismstorm

liu junyuan said:


> You should not worry about burning in components at the same time. Each will plateau/reach their max potential within a finite number of hours. Also, the tubes you buy for the Mjo2 will probably need the most time for burn-in anyways. And since people buy aftermarket tubes all the time while other components have in chain have already stabilized, this question should be the least of your concerns. With the Schiit multibit DACs, its less a matter of burning in than it is for internal components to reach their optimal temperature, which may be more or less reset upon turning the unit off.
> 
> Tough call on which you buy first. Im tempted to say get the amp first, but I say so reluctantly, as the Gumby has been arguably the most noticeable change in my chain other than the transducer itself.


 


hodgjy said:


> I spent years trying to cure my system of digititus. I tried all kinds of different tube dacs, buffers, and amps themselves. Then I even tried headphones with rolled off treble. None of them cured the problem.
> 
> The Gumby did immediately. Music sounds like music again. Cymbals sound like cymbals.
> 
> The dac would be suggestion for first purchase.


 
 Thanks both, noted both of your advice. I still feel like the amp should be acquired first unless the Mojo has sufficient juice to power Audezes to satisfactory levels, notwithstanding that the Gumby might make more overall SQ improvements. A lack of driving power seems more 'fatal' and harder to compensate and the Mojo itself should be a decent DAC ...


----------



## Sam Lord

wahsmoh said:


> Anyone know the output voltage of the Gungnir MB RCAs? That might explain why you are hearing what you are hearing. I know my Theta has a 4V output on the single-ended RCAs which is much higher than normal. Also the Questyle CMA800i I heard at the San Diego Head-fi meet supposedly has a 4V output on the RCA single-ended and 6.3V balanced output voltage. The Bifrost MB is standard 2V and doesn't have the passive preamp boost of my Theta.


 

 The specs give *normal*, safe output voltages for both DS and MB flavors of Gungnir:
 "*Maximum Output: *4.0V RMS (balanced), 2.0V RMS (single-ended)"


----------



## ToTo Man

Does anyone know if, in general, you can split a balanced output?  I have split my Bifrost's SE outs with a passive RCA Y-splitter into two different SE amps, and was wondering if I could do the same with Gumby's balanced outs?


----------



## artur9

toto man said:


> Does anyone know if, in general, you can split a balanced output?  I have split my Bifrost's SE outs with a passive RCA Y-splitter into two different SE amps, and was wondering if I could do the same with Gumby's balanced outs?


 

 They do make splitters for them but, AIUI, it's not as simple as it is for RCA.  I have used them in the past.


----------



## gilency

you can build a small box. Quite easy to do.


----------



## Vtsailor

I understand what balanced I/O is, but equipment I can afford is not balanced internally for all that it has balanced inputs. Would I still receive benefit from using the balanced outputs of Gumby in this situation?

Thanks


----------



## hodgjy

vtsailor said:


> I understand what balanced I/O is, but equipment I can afford is not balanced internally for all that it has balanced inputs. Would I still receive benefit from using the balanced outputs of Gumby in this situation?
> 
> Thanks


 
 My amp is SE, but can receive a balanced signal and sum it. I can't hear any difference at normal listening volume when letting my amp sum the balanced signal over using the Gumby's summed unbalanced signal.
  
 I suppose if you pause the music and turn your amp to full blast, the balanced signal might have lower noise. But that's about it. 
  
 Saying that, though, I'm still using the balanced signal into my amp because I like the sturdiness of good XLR cables.


----------



## ZoNtO

vtsailor said:


> I understand what balanced I/O is, but equipment I can afford is not balanced internally for all that it has balanced inputs. Would I still receive benefit from using the balanced outputs of Gumby in this situation?
> 
> Thanks


 

 Yes. http://tinyurl.com/qg7swzq


----------



## Cha Cha Cha

Does the Gungnir come with those schiit-y rubber feet?
  
 Had the Modi/Magni stack about a year ago and they sounded good, but here's hoping sound upgrade also means parts quality upgrade too.


----------



## Mediahound

cha cha cha said:


> Does the Gungnir come with those schiit-y rubber feet?
> 
> Had the Modi/Magni stack about a year ago and they sounded good, but here's hoping sound upgrade also means parts quality upgrade too.


 

 No, they're built in. Per the manual:
  
 "
     IN THE BOX 
*ONE *
 Gungnir DAC 
*ONE *
 Power cord (for, like, well duh) 
*ZERO *
 Stick-on feet (because the amp already has screw-in feet—you’ve reached the big leagues now, guys) "
  
 http://schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/gungnir_owners_manual_2_1.pdf


----------



## Cha Cha Cha

WOW great!
 Thank you


----------



## Mediahound

Note- it's 3 feet in a triangle configuration.


----------



## Cha Cha Cha

Uhhhh, OK.
 A bit odd, don't you think?


----------



## Argo Duck

3 is definitely odd. 4 would be even. So would 2, but unbalanced.


----------



## jcn3

argo duck said:


> 3 is definitely odd. 4 would be even. So would 2, but unbalanced.


 
  
 edit:  removing comment.  just got the pun . . . .


----------



## Cha Cha Cha

So I guess the Gungnir/Mjolnir stack is not a real fully balanced setup... shame shame, I know your name


----------



## Mediahound

Interestingly, the Mjolnir 2 has 4 feet.


----------



## Bazile

I'd think the advantages of only 3 feet (think of them as points) would be plane to see. Spelling intended.


----------



## JGreen08

mediahound said:


> http://schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/gungnir_owners_manual_2_1.pdf


 
  
 Random, but I noticed they accidentally said Mjolnir is Odin's spear under the Welcome to Gungnir section.


----------



## Brubacca

Anyone here compare Gumby to Rega DAC or Naim UnitiQute DAC? 

If I got Gumby I would use digital out of the UnitiQute to feed the Gumby. Convince me, please. Is Gumby noticably better than Rega Dac/Qute DAC?

My amp in use is a Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum (Tube Amp). The Qute isnused as a source only with the amp section turned off.


----------



## earnmyturns

I used to own a UnitiQute feeding KEF LS50s, streaming from a Synology NAS. When I got my Bifrost upgraded to multibit, I experimented with bypassing the UnitiQute streamer and DAC with a Linux-based streamer feeding the Bifrost MB into the UnitiQute line input, and I got better soundstage and a generally bigger presence and clarity than the somewhat muffled UnitiQute (relatively speaking, the UnitiQute gave me a couple of years of enjoyable listening). I've never heard the Gungnir MB, but multiple reviewers say that the Bifrost MB is pretty close to the Gungnir MB single-ended. I can't repeat these experiments because I traded in the UnitiQute for a Bel Canto C7R which also has a bigger soundstage and clarity than the UnitiQute. One of these days I'll try to bypass the Bel Canto's DAC with the Bifrost MB to see what kind of difference it makes.


----------



## Dalgas

Anyone tried Jitterbug, Wyrd and/or Uptone Regen with Gumby?
  
 Read a report (somewhere on this site) that wyrd is no good with Yggy, whereas Regen gives an improvement. Given that Yggy and Gumby are similar "beasts"   - mayby thats true for the Gumby as well.


----------



## Punch Leez

Here is the jitterbug, to buy it with $39 or not, you call.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Damn, that Gungnir still remains out of stock in the EU.


----------



## sheldaze

dalgas said:


> Anyone tried Jitterbug, Wyrd and/or Uptone Regen with Gumby?
> 
> Read a report (somewhere on this site) that wyrd is no good with Yggy, whereas Regen gives an improvement. Given that Yggy and Gumby are similar "beasts"   - mayby thats true for the Gumby as well.


 
 I tried Wyrd with Gumby - I did not find any advantage. However my USB source for that setup is fairly good. From my laptop, I have found many DAC and USB AMP to sound considerably better through the Wyrd.
  
 I would also advise that Gumby and Yggy are considerably different, in that the Yggy has what Schiit is calling USB version 3 implementation. It is supposedly a significant upgrade over the USB version 2 that is in both the Gungnir and Bifrost. I have had all three DAC, and IMHO the USB implementation (no Wyrd) is fantastic in all three.


----------



## gevorg

dalgas said:


> Anyone tried Jitterbug, Wyrd and/or Uptone Regen with Gumby?
> 
> Read a report (somewhere on this site) that wyrd is no good with Yggy, whereas Regen gives an improvement. Given that Yggy and Gumby are similar "beasts"   - mayby thats true for the Gumby as well.




I use Regen with Gumby and it gives it a nice improvement.


----------



## jcn3

dalgas said:


> Anyone tried Jitterbug, Wyrd and/or Uptone Regen with Gumby?
> 
> Read a report (somewhere on this site) that wyrd is no good with Yggy, whereas Regen gives an improvement. Given that Yggy and Gumby are similar "beasts"   - mayby thats true for the Gumby as well.


 
  
 i use a caps v3 topanga as a server feeding my gumby.  i found the jitterbug gave more clarity and better soundstage.  i think it's really a question of the noise in the server more than the dac as to whether you get a benefit.


----------



## Dalgas

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on Gumby and wyrd/regen/jitterbug. 

I would expect that Regen is better than jitterbug. But two jitterbugs are still a lot cheaper....

Think I'll wait until mr. Darko has testet all three


----------



## crazychile

Has anyone ordered a Gungnir Multibit in the last week or two and received a shipping confirmation? The website says they will begin shipping  in early November again. It is past early November now...
  
 The only reason I ask is because I was hoping to buy a B-stock to save a few $$ and they don't have any in stock. My thoughts were that after the new batch is ready, maybe there would be a blemished or returned unit that I could pick up as B-stock.
  
 Thanks,


----------



## schneller

I had the chance to audition the BMB, GMB, and YGB about a week ago. The B and G were both SE. Otherwise similar source and setup all around. I found the differences between the B and G to be less discernable esp. given the price difference. But the YGB was a revelation to my ears. Loved it. So if your needs are just SE, either go for the best value DAC around arguably with the BMB or go big and go home with the Yiggy and never worry about a DAC purchase for a while.


----------



## cishida

crazychile said:


> Has anyone ordered a Gungnir Multibit in the last week or two and received a shipping confirmation? The website says they will begin shipping  in early November again. It is past early November now...
> 
> The only reason I ask is because I was hoping to buy a B-stock to save a few $$ and they don't have any in stock. My thoughts were that after the new batch is ready, maybe there would be a blemished or returned unit that I could pick up as B-stock.
> 
> Thanks,


 

 I bought a MB about 10 days ago and it has *not* shipped yet.
 "Early Nov" is out of date, but I decided not to bother them about it. I assume they are doing what they can. Probably really busy.


----------



## crazychile

cishida said:


> crazychile said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone ordered a Gungnir Multibit in the last week or two and received a shipping confirmation? The website says they will begin shipping  in early November again. It is past early November now...
> ...


 

 Thanks cishida. I know they don't always keep those status notes perfectly up to date. Maybe they'll have a b-stock within the next month. Otherwise I'll probably just go for A-stock.


----------



## P4UL

Ordered mine October 25th and I just received it yesterday. Hope that helps out.


----------



## cishida

crazychile said:


> Thanks cishida. I know they don't always keep those status notes perfectly up to date. Maybe they'll have a b-stock within the next month. Otherwise I'll probably just go for A-stock.


 

 Ordered Nov 7. Just got my shipment notice.


----------



## zackzack

johndean said:


> I can compare it to the 2qute,benchmark 2hgc , Yggy .
> 
> The Yggy is the only dac that's better .
> 
> ...


 

 Better than Marantz & Audiolab, very possible.
 NAD & Chord? Harder to believe.
 Parasound, Benchmark? Sure?


----------



## johndean

zackzack said:


> Better than Marantz & Audiolab, very possible.
> NAD & Chord? Harder to believe.
> Parasound, Benchmark? Sure?


 
 Of course this is subjective but the top 3 imo would be 
  
 1) Yggy - it is better than the 2qute which I have 
 2) MB Gungnir or Chord 2 qute depending on preferences -imo MB Gungnir
 slightly better. 
 2qute is easily better than the Delta Sigma Gungnir.


----------



## Vanquisher

johndean said:


> Of course this is subjective but the top 3 imo would be
> 
> 1) Yggy - it is better than the 2qute which I have
> 2) MB Gungnir or Chord 2 qute depending on preferences -imo MB Gungnir
> ...


 
  
 How did it stack against the arcam? irdac? I couldn't say I thought the DS Gungnir is a better dac than the arcam at half the price.


----------



## johndean

vanquisher said:


> How did it stack against the arcam? irdac? I couldn't say I thought the DS Gungnir is a better dac than the arcam at half the price.


 
 I believe i liked the Arcam irdac better than the Delta Sigma Gungnir . I though it had better resolution .It is absolutely not better
 than the MB Gungnir. 
 I liked the Irdac better than the Audiolab Mdac .


----------



## Vanquisher

johndean said:


> I believe i liked the Arcam irdac better than the Delta Sigma Gungnir . I though it had better resolution .It is absolutely not better
> than the MB Gungnir.
> I liked the Irdac better than the Audiolab Mdac .


 
  
 Agree with you. I'm very impressed with the irdac and was able to snag one from that seller one bay for 400 bucks. Quite a steal for the $. Could be happy with that unit for some time. What are you noticing differences between Gumby and irdac. Curious to hear.


----------



## schneller

johndean said:


> Of course this is subjective but the top 3 imo would be
> 
> 1) Yggy - it is better than the 2qute which I have
> 2) MB Gungnir or Chord 2 qute depending on preferences -imo MB Gungnir
> ...


 

 I auditioned the GMB and BMB (and Yiggy) and found the BMB vs. GMB differences to be slight (SE output only).
 Have you compared the BMB ($600) to the 2Qute ($1800)?
  
 I personally think if you are willing to spend $1800 on the 2Qute then what is an additional $300 for the Yiggy at $2099? I was blown away by the Yiggy. It seems like everyone is.
  
 As I said before, I think the decision for most should be easy: either the best value DAC in the industry (BMB) or the best DAC period for under $15K (Yiggy). The GMB occupies an interesting middle ground for those who need value and balanced output.


----------



## ToTo Man

schneller said:


> I auditioned the GMB and BMB (and Yiggy) and found the BMB vs. GMB differences to be slight (SE output only).
> Have you compared the BMB ($600) to the 2Qute ($1800)?
> 
> I personally think if you are willing to spend $1800 on the 2Qute then what is an additional $300 for the Yiggy at $2099? I was blown away by the Yiggy. It seems like everyone is.
> ...


 
 +1, go Yggy or go home!  
  
 Nah just joking, I haven't heard Bimby or Yggy yet, only Gumby, so I'm in no place to comment.  But I appreciate your post in so much as it swaying me further towards going for the Yggy (when funds permit!)...


----------



## sheldaze

As much as I admire the enthusiasm for Yggdrasil, I still feel there is a place for each of the three DACs - Yggdrasil, Gungnir Multibit and Bifrost Multibit.
  
 However I have great pause to inject my own personal opinions and choice of purpose for each. In my case, I could not justify keeping the Bifrost Multibit - but I hear it is happily doing desk duties elsewhere in the country. I kept both my Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil. I can say if you want it all, the unrelenting realism of the sound, then by all means go Yggdrasil. But there is still great enjoyment to be had in _both _the other options.


----------



## srisaikat

I am also eager to know comparison between Arcam irDAC and GMB or BMB. I had ds Gungnir, but now I am more satisfied with irDAC. So it will be interesting if anybody really compared irDAC with MB schiit (Gungnir or Bifrost).


----------



## sheldaze

srisaikat said:


> I am also eager to know comparison between Arcam irDAC and GMB or BMB. I had ds Gungnir, but now I am more satisfied with irDAC. So it will be interesting if anybody really compared irDAC with MB schiit (Gungnir or Bifrost).


 
 I had all three, so I'll post my thoughts. The irDAC could certainly be end-game. However the order in which I purchased these was:
  

Gungnir Multibit
Arcam irDAC
Bifrost Multibit (upgraded from Uber)
  
 As previously stated by multiple people, the Gungnir Multibit is an upgrade over both options 2 and 3. I already had it, which is why I sold both options 2 and 3.
  
 My opinion is neither options 2 or 3 are better - just different. If you like the Schiit Multibit house sound (and obviously I do), go for the Bifrost. I personally found more depth and dynamics (and obviously I like this too) with the irDAC in my system, but note you will only notice this once you have a significantly resolving system (i.e. high end speakers/headphones and amplifier). Without a significantly resolving system, you may not even notice a difference between the Bifrost and Gungnir, as has also been previously reported. Of the 4 headphones I was using when I first purchased the Gungnir, on only one did I notice a significant difference in depth and dynamics. But you will likely notice what has been referred to as the smooth, analog nature (Schiit Multibit house sound) on the less expensive Bifrost.
  
 TL;DR - Gungnir Multibit will be an upgrade over irDAC. And as it has been suggested, Yggdrasil gets you even more


----------



## Vanquisher

sheldaze said:


> I had all three, so I'll post my thoughts. The irDAC could certainly be end-game. However the order in which I purchased these was:
> 
> 
> Gungnir Multibit
> ...


 
  
 Heard Yggy at NYC meet and was just like:


----------



## DougD

vanquisher said:


> Heard Yggy at NYC meet and was just like:


 
 Sad. Scary. True.
  
 I'm 3/4 afraid to give it a listen anywhere, for exactly that reason. 
  
 The other 1/4 of me .... see cartoon.


----------



## 333jeffery

I sent my Gumby back, never could get the harshness to go away. Got an Yggy and have been in audio heaven ever since. Horns, drums and guitar have never sounded this good to me. But as said before, the rest of your system must be up to the task of handling what the Yggy puts out, or it's capabilities are wasted.


----------



## sheldaze

333jeffery said:


> I sent my Gumby back, never could get the harshness to go away. Got an Yggy and have been in audio heaven ever since. Horns, drums and guitar have never sounded this good to me. But as said before, the rest of your system must be up to the task of handling what the Yggy puts out, or it's capabilities are wasted.


 
 I spoke to another Head-Fi'er just yesterday who did the exact same thing. He said he could put in hours of listening on the Yggy because it was less harsh than his previous Gungnir. I personally attribute it to less mental fatigue - the sound is that much closer to analog, and there's less digital hash that your brain must filter through to recreate the analog picture in your mind.
  
 I must admit I never personally had the Gungnir (Delta Sigma version), but was more relating it to the difference going from Arcam irDAC (reported to sound similar to the Gungnir) versus my current setup with the Yggdrasil. Sometimes when the music starts to play, you just know you're butt isn't moving until the music stops. Happened to me just last night with Yggy > Rag > HE1K and some good music.
  
 Happy listening


----------



## ToTo Man

333jeffery said:


> I sent my Gumby back, never could get the harshness to go away.


 
 This confuses me, as the majority of folk say that Gumby is warmer and less revealing than Yggy.  I'd assumed this meant Gumby was more forgiving of harsh source material, but your experience suggests the opposite?


----------



## johndean

toto man said:


> This confuses me, as the majority of folk say that Gumby is warmer and less revealing than Yggy.  I'd assumed this meant Gumby was more forgiving of harsh source material, but your experience suggests the opposite?




Yeah confuses me too . I find the Gumby less resolute than the Yggy but it is warmer . I will say the Gumby doesn't flow as 
naturally as the Yggy . 

The Yggy is the better dac but for 1,250 I don't think you can find a better dac than the Gumby .


----------



## sheldaze

toto man said:


> This confuses me, as the majority of folk say that Gumby is warmer and less revealing than Yggy.  I'd assumed this meant Gumby was more forgiving of harsh source material, but your experience suggests the opposite?


 


johndean said:


> Yeah confuses me too . I find the Gumby less resolute than the Yggy but it is warmer . I will say the Gumby doesn't flow as
> naturally as the Yggy .
> 
> The Yggy is the better dac but for 1,250 I don't think you can find a better dac than the Gumby .


 
 Whoops...
 Perhaps I was mis-reading his post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I assumed he meant the original Gungnir without the Multibit, although his post clearly said Gumby. No way a Yggdrasil is going to be more relaxed than a Gungnir Multibit. Just...not...possible!


----------



## joseph69

333jeffery said:


> I sent my Gumby back, never could get the harshness to go away. Got an Yggy and have been in audio heaven ever since. Horns, drums and guitar have never sounded this good to me. But as said before, the rest of your system must be up to the task of handling what the Yggy puts out, or it's capabilities are wasted.


 


sheldaze said:


> Whoops...
> Perhaps I was mis-reading his post
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have the Gungnir DS USB2 and find it a but harsh, plus it doesn't play well with my Cd payer due to the muting relay in the Gungnir opening/closing in-between each song, so I miss the first second or two of the music. I had considered the Yggy but I would have had the same issue with the muting relay while using my Cd player, so in the end I purchased a PWDll which I'm waiting to receive.


----------



## sheldaze

joseph69 said:


> I have the Gungnir DS USB2 and find it a but harsh, plus it doesn't play well with my Cd payer due to the muting relay in the Gungnir opening/closing in-between each song, so I miss the first second or two of the music. I had considered the Yggy but I would have had the same issue with the muting relay while using my Cd player, so in the end I purchased a PWDll which I'm waiting to receive.


 
 I've noticed the muting relay issue (on my Gumby), but not on all disc spinners. I had assumed it was the fault of the spinner. Marantz SA9260 has no mute issue. Toshiba SD-9200 has the mute issue, depending on how close to the start of the song the music begins to play. However I also noticed the Yggdrasil is quicker to select the correct sample rate.
  
 Anyone have both Yggy and Gumby (or Gungnir) and noticed the same? I suppose I'll try the same Toshiba disc spinner on the Yggy and report back in a few...


----------



## joseph69

sheldaze said:


> I've noticed the muting relay issue (on my Gumby),* but not on all disc spinners*. I had assumed it was the fault of the spinner. Marantz SA9260 has no mute issue. Toshiba SD-9200 has the mute issue, depending on how close to the start of the song the music begins to play. However I also noticed the Yggdrasil is quicker to select the correct sample rate.
> Anyone have both Yggy and Gumby (or Gungnir) and noticed the same? I suppose I'll try the same Toshiba disc spinner on the Yggy and report back in a few...


 
 This is correct, not all Cd players have the issue with the muting relay, but I'm using a
 Sony CDP-C701ES which does. I had the Bitfrost at one time, and the muting relay would open/close continuously so I had to get rid of it…I couldn't even put the disc on pause, the relay would go nuts, but the Gungnir's muting relay dosen't open/close nearly as much as the Bitfrost did with my Sony, but it is still a bit annoying for me.


----------



## sheldaze

joseph69 said:


> This is correct, not all Cd players have the issue with the muting relay, but I'm using a
> Sony CDP-C701ES which does. I had the Bitfrost at one time, and the muting relay would open/close continuously so I had to get rid of it…I couldn't even put the disc on pause, the relay would go nuts, but the Gungnir's muting relay dosen't open/close nearly as much as the Bitfrost did with my Sony, but it is still a bit annoying for me.


 
 No problems... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just trying to report for the rest of the people. Would be nice to have a list of the spinners that combine best with the Bifrost/Gungnir. And sorry, I had to wait for Yo Yo Ma to leave the room before I came back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 From my little experiment, Schiit seems to have addressed the issue with the Yggdrasil. I'd be most interested to hear back directly from Jason or Mike. But my disc spinner is not causing the issue with the Yggy.


----------



## joseph69

sheldaze said:


> No problems...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Another member also has a vintage Sony Cd player (not sure which model) and we both had the Bitfrost at the same time and he didn't have the issue with his player.


----------



## hodgjy

I had some time on my hands today, so I decided to set up an A-B test. It wasn't blind, so take it anyway you like.

I hooked up my Gumby and Uberfrost to my Trafomatic. My ipod dock has two digital outputs, so I could run both DACs simultaneously into my amp and flip the source selector during the song while it was playing uninterrupted. 

Results were slightly surprising. 

First, the differences between both DACs are smaller than I initially expected, but they are there and can be heard with a trained ear. The main difference is the Uberfrost is more shouty with more spitty treble. The treble is sharper and more pronounced from the Uberfrost. Furthermore, the entire spectrum is more balanced on the Gumby.

Also, when switching from the Gumby to the Uberfrost, the differences in sound weren't as immediately as noticeable as when switching from the Uberfrost to the Gumby.


----------



## money4me247

toto man said:


> This confuses me, as the majority of folk say that Gumby is warmer and less revealing than Yggy.  I'd assumed this meant Gumby was more forgiving of harsh source material, but your experience suggests the opposite?


 
 They are talking about the Gumby (which is the new gungnir multibit). A lot of people here are referring to the old Gungnir delta-sigma in comparison to the Yggy.
  
 I've demoed both the Gumby and Yggy and the Gumby does seem a bit warmer than the Yggy. The Yggy may be a bit more resolving, but the differences were not extreme enough to justify the price tag difference for my ears. I was really glad to be able to do a side-by-side comparison. It really illuminates which option fits your own personal needs the best.


----------



## money4me247

hodgjy said:


> I had some time on my hands today, so I decided to set up an A-B test. It wasn't blind, so take it anyway you like.
> 
> I hooked up my Gumby and Uberfrost to my Trafomatic. My ipod dock has two digital outputs, so I could run both DACs simultaneously into my amp and flip the source selector during the song while it was playing uninterrupted.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is not surprising. The sonic differences between DACs are much marginally smaller than the difference between headphones in my personal experience. I did a similar experiment with the Gumby and the Yggy, and I was personally happy with the level of sound quality the Gumby achieved and did not personally feel the need to go any higher.
  
 I am surprised that it was easier to hear the difference going from the Uberfrost to the Gumby. Typically it is easier to hear the difference downgrading rather than upgrading.
  
 I do think that most sonic differences between dacs will not be as pronounced in real life as it appears in writing, so just something to keep in mind.


----------



## joseph69

money4me247 said:


> Typically it is easier to hear the difference downgrading rather than upgrading.


 
 +1
 I always compare this way!


----------



## hodgjy

money4me247 said:


> I am surprised that it was easier to hear the difference going from the Uberfrost to the Gumby. Typically it is easier to hear the difference downgrading rather than upgrading.




This was why it was very surprising for me. But, it's the way my ears and brain wanted to behave today.


----------



## money4me247

hodgjy said:


> This was why it was very surprising for me. But, it's the way my ears and brain wanted to behave today.


 
 heh... we'll just chalk it up to you unlocking a new level of audiophile mastery with your ability to hear both upgrades & downgrades very clearly now 
  
 Always fun to find improvements in our critical listening abilities. Especially when blinded! I find blind-testing pretty fun, but often quite different results than what I was initially expecting. So surprising results often more common!


----------



## 333jeffery

I suspect my Gumby was defective. The treble was so bright that it was painful to listen to some recordings. These same recordings are fine on the Yggy. Hope this clears things up.


----------



## money4me247

333jeffery said:


> I suspect my Gumby was defective. The treble was so bright that it was painful to listen to some recordings. These same recordings are fine on the Yggy. Hope this clears things up.


 
 I actually recall my Gumby sounding a bit bright upon first listen. It was pre-owned, so already burned in. Just needed a few days to adjust to its sound signature. I do think that the Yggy sounded relatively brighter and more detailed from my comparisons though, so I don't doubt people who say the Gumby is warmer than the Yggy.
  
 I didn't have issues with the treble presentation on either set-up.


----------



## gwitzel

earnmyturns said:


> I was puzzled by your description, as I could not conceive of any reason why a digital bit-perfect could be improved by source software settings (hardware improvements to reduce jitter or RF interference are another matter). So I checked the Audionirvana Plus 2.2 manual to understand those settings, as I don't use Audionirvana.
> 
> (I stream from a NAS via UPnP and dedicated Linux/MPD-based USB renderers, here's a typical setting for the USB driver
> 
> ...


 
  
  


gwitzel said:


> Interesting... Yes, I have to admit that I don't understand this at all. I just realized it has an impact. That there are sometimes problems in the rate negotiation becomes obvious always when it plays a track too fast or slow. Restarting it helps then. Maybe I am doing something wrong here... Maybe someone who uses Audirvana + Gungnir can comment.
> 
> Thanks for pointing this out.


 
  
 I just would like to follow up on my short exchange with earnmyturns and jfoxvol about Audirvana settings and bit-perfect streaming to Gumby. jfoxvol kindly shared the necessary Audirvana settings with me, and now I indeed cannot hear any difference anymore with changing the filter parameters, as it should be the case. I am convinced now that while using integer mode 1 improved sound for me significantly, my imagination was playing tricks on me when I thought I improve things by changing the filter parameters (I never used any up-sampling that makes use of the filter).
  
 However, this does not change my point:
 If Audirvana is setup correctly, Audirvana + Wyrd + USB2 receiver can replace the Accuphase CD-drive that we used in our tests.
  
 I am sure this does not come as a surprise to many here. But I had the impression that my post was a bit unsettling for some and fostered the suspicion that the Schiit USB 2 receiver doesn't work that well, so I thought I correct myself and clarify.


----------



## ZoNtO

Might be beneficial to post the settings in the thread so others can implement if they have the same issue.


----------



## Chikolad

Just curious... has anyone compared the Gumby with a Geek Pulse Infinity (EDIT - an Xfi would suffice too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)?


----------



## sonorsnoopy

What would you recommend: better streamer or better dac?
  
 Bimby + Auralic Aries Femto (better)
  
 or
  
 Gimby + Auralic Aries LE (lower model)
  
 I would use them in a STAX setup with fully balanced amps (RCA+XLR input)
  
  
 (...and dont say Gimby+ Femto !


----------



## earnmyturns

sonorsnoopy said:


> What would you recommend: better streamer or better dac?


 
 Better DAC, for sure. If the DAC's digital input stages are well designed, they should provide good insulation from clocking issues or analog RF interference from the source. I have a really cheap streamer (CuBox-i with Volumio open-source streamer software) that I have tried direct USB to a Bimby and to a Bel Canto C7R. If I play close attention I may detect subtle differences between that direct connection and one via a Bel Canto mLink and a Nordost S/PDIF cable, but it could be placebo effect. In comparison, the difference between the Bimby and its Buber predecessor is *very* noticeable. Same with a 4x more expensive streamer, the now discontinued SOtM sMS-100. Honestly, I have a lot of difficulty believing all the hyperbole about multi-k$ streamers, but that's maybe because I'm a mere computer scientist who has worked with digital devices since the days of discrete transistor gates and core memory.


----------



## vocalstrance

Makes me think that you know what you like, and like what you know. Save the money. As for me, I am saving up for the gungnir now that I got my fiance to say "Go ahead."


----------



## KLJTech

jcn3 said:


> can you provide more info about your system?  my experience with schiit products is completely different -- for me, they've done an excellent job of faithfully re-producing the essence of recordings.


 
  
 I agree and can't think of another Audio company other than Magnepan (if you love planar speakers like I do) that offers as much for the money as Schiit Audio. On top of that, Schiit Audio doesn't hype their products, they'll tell you what it is, what parts are used and the basic circuit design, but never say it's better than this or than.


----------



## Currawong

Guys, I've deleted a bunch of posts. Please don't reply to thread-crapping in the future, but either ignore it or ignore it and report it.


----------



## Nalor

I just got a gumby and hope to have some time this week to listen to it. (Well I had my gungnir upgraded to multibit, and just got it this weekend. Just too many chores to get done for the holiday season.  )


----------



## Maconi

Would the GMB benefit any from something like the iFi Micro iUSB 3? I know they also make their own Wyrd and the GMB has "Adapticlock" built in for regeneration. I didn't know if iFi's version (REclock/REgenerate/REbalance) would interfere with the GMB's processes (digitally altering the signal somehow before the GMB had a chance to do its R2R magic)?


----------



## gevorg

Maybe, since it benefits from Uptone Regen.


----------



## Rockcoon

In Russia you can buy secondhand M51 almost new, for 50k rub. It's about 735 bucks.

1) http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?app=classifieds&module=core&do=view_item&item_id=14021
2) http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?app=classifieds&module=core&do=view_item&item_id=14911

I'm just trying to say, that people not rely happy with their Nad...


----------



## thomascrown

rockcoon said:


> In Russia you can buy secondhand M51 almost new, for 50k rub. It's about 735 bucks.
> 
> 1) http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?app=classifieds&module=core&do=view_item&item_id=14021
> 2) http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?app=classifieds&module=core&do=view_item&item_id=14911
> ...


 
 Here in nz you can buy a new one for 1k usd... I'd say it's kinda a normal/good price for a used unit.


----------



## jjacq

My Gungnir MB is arriving tomorrow but I am wondering, do most people here leave it on like the Yggy? I'm kind of worried about the power consumption costs though I don't think it'll be that much at the same time...


----------



## reddog

jjacq said:


> My Gungnir MB is arriving tomorrow but I am wondering, do most people here leave it on like the Yggy? I'm kind of worried about the power consumption costs though I don't think it'll be that much at the same time... :confused_face_2:



Yes I leave my Gumby on all the time, like I do my Yggdrasil. I only turn my dacs off, during thunder storms.


----------



## crazychile

jjacq said:


> My Gungnir MB is arriving tomorrow but I am wondering, do most people here leave it on like the Yggy? I'm kind of worried about the power consumption costs though I don't think it'll be that much at the same time...


 

 I think I read a comment once from Baldr or Jason that they wouldn't even put a power switch on their dacs except they have to for UL certification or some regulatory compliance issue. I believe some of the old Thetas didn't have power switches, but that was 20+ years ago. The point is that if you have any Schiit dac, leave it on all the time.


----------



## jcn3

jjacq said:


> My Gungnir MB is arriving tomorrow but I am wondering, do most people here leave it on like the Yggy? I'm kind of worried about the power consumption costs though I don't think it'll be that much at the same time...


 
  
 i leave mine on all of the time, too.  it consumes 20w of power so costs less than $20 per year to leave it on all of the time.


----------



## Dalgas

Just had an eye-opening experience this weekend. Until now I have played back ripped cds on my labtop, which I connect to Gumby via USB. I had no other sources....
  
 This weekend I took a trip down nostalgia road and bought a 30 years old Philips 304 mkII cd-player! It weighs 20 pounds and have the everlasting CDM1 drive. The digital section is no longer original - seller has replaced it with a non oversampling DIY-dac based on the TDA1543 chip.The new dac also have a better RCA Spdif-out.
  
 The rest of my system is NAD M3 amp and Dynaudio Contour mkII speakers.
  
 So I played some music - comparing the original cd played on the Philips directly to the laptop/Gumby. The Philips did not get the same amount of detail accross nor was the stereoimage as big. But the Philips sounded more smooth and coherent. The labtop/Gumby had a bloated upper bass and vocal had more digital glare.
  
 Yesterday I made a RCA spdif digital cable - long enough to connect the Philips to the Gumby. Oh boy - the sound I now heard was "out of this world" Now I had all the good stuff and none of the bad.
  
 Conclusion: The USB 2 is not that good! RCA spdif is way better. BNC spdif perhaps even better??


----------



## joseph69

dalgas said:


> Conclusion: The USB 2 is not that good! RCA spdif is way better. BNC spdif perhaps even better??


 
 I've always used the SPDIF (optical) input.


----------



## Brubacca

You have stumbled on a fact that people have been ignoring for years. A standard PC with a USB cable is a crap source. The minimum you need to do is a USB conditioner like the Wyred. If you want a PC to be a really solid source you need something like the SOTM - USB card, preferably with the Battery Power Supply. A linear power supply would also be advisable.

The difference in adding a decent network client is amazing. Several are available at various price points.... Sonis, Bluesound, Marantz, Cambridge Audio, bel Canto, Sim Audio etc...

Been down that PC Road, life is better with a dedicated renderer.


----------



## Bazile

I use optical with my Gumby because I don't have a 20 ft long usb cable, but was under the impression that all of the Gumby inputs sounded pretty much the same. Have I misread all the "Schiit" threads I'm following? Is there a consensus on what input sounds better?


----------



## Maconi

Most people use a USB cleaner thing if they're using USB. I'm just confused as to which is the best (the iFi Micro iUSB 3.0 looks nice, albeit expensive).


----------



## earnmyturns

brubacca said:


> The difference in adding a decent network client is amazing. Several are available at various price points.... Sonis, Bluesound, Marantz, Cambridge Audio, bel Canto, Sim Audio etc...
> 
> Been down that PC Road, life is better with a dedicated renderer.


 
 I agree that dedicated renderers are the ticket, but the nosebleed prices and/or the ridiculous feature creep of the brands you mention should give one pause. Being a fan of Bel Canto's gear, the price of a REFstream, for instance, seems absurd compared with the price of their other products, except if my theory expressed elsewhere is the real reason: streamers are so expensive to support because of the nightmarish complications of UPnP/DLNA that manufacturers have to charge a lot more for the hardware upfront to cover support costs. Cambridge Audio streamers have a multitude of software features that are just a bundle of bug opportunities. Simaudio, Linn, ... crazy. I've spent a lot more on speakers, amps, headphones, DACs, but what is being charged for streamers gives me heartburn, they just teeny computers with good power supplies and clocks, after all. SOtM's sMS-100 was the exception, but SOtM found some pretense to kill it, probably because it was too good for the $500 price. So, I'm paying the price in time and patience of $100 CuBox streamers with Volumio + a good USB>S/PDIF converter/reclocker, which I don't recommend to the uninitiated but that keeps my bile under control over absurd prices for small computers.


----------



## Dalgas

brubacca said:


> You have stumbled on a fact that people have been ignoring for years. A standard PC with a USB cable is a crap source. The minimum you need to do is a USB conditioner like the Wyred. If you want a PC to be a really solid source you need something like the SOTM - USB card, preferably with the Battery Power Supply. A linear power supply would also be advisable.
> 
> The difference in adding a decent network client is amazing. Several are available at various price points.... Sonis, Bluesound, Marantz, Cambridge Audio, bel Canto, Sim Audio etc...
> 
> Been down that PC Road, life is better with a dedicated renderer.


 
 I think (know) you are right! But will a USB conditioner do the Work. Or will I be better of with a USB/SPDIF converter?


----------



## Dalgas

bazile said:


> I use optical with my Gumby because I don't have a 20 ft long usb cable, but was under the impression that all of the Gumby inputs sounded pretty much the same. Have I misread all the "Schiit" threads I'm following? Is there a consensus on what input sounds better?


 
 I would think that optical is inferior to RCA or BNC - solely based on the fact that in optical you need to convert spdif to light and back again!
 Every conversion risk introduction of jitter.


----------



## Brubacca

My Personal experience was that a USB conditioner alone was not enough of an improvement. I now use a Naim UnitiQute that I purchased for $1,000 preowned. This was after i built a dediacted PC with a Pro quality spdif sound card. Ditched the card tried just using the Wyred. Then got Schiit USB cables. Also tried adding a Musical Fidleity V-Link to my PC setup. 

My whole system came together when I added the Qute. I even tried just using the Qute as a renderer into the DAC that I was using at the time (Rega). I can honestly say the the best the DAC sounded was when the dedicated renderer was feeding the DAC. 

Now I am considering the Gungnir as an upgrade. I would use the Qute to feed it the digital signal.


----------



## schneller

I would appreciate more GMB vs. Yiggy comparisons (using SE output if possible) from those who own both.
  
 As someone who only needs SE output, I am torn between going for the value option (BMB) or go all out on an amazing DAC (Yiggy). Those for the same price of the latter, the updated NAIM DAC V1 is getting more praise.


----------



## AudioBear

I'd like to read some objective Gumby vs Yggy reviews by people who have extensive experience with each.  At $1000 more I would expect Yggy to sound better than Gumby. Given the familial relationship there ought to be a lot of similarities as well.  Over in the Yggy threads I keep reading posts which claim there is a huge difference between the two and the real comparison is Bimby to Gumpy because Gumby just doesn't compare to Yggy.  Yggy is Nirvana, Gumby just another DAC.   I frankly find that hard to believe.  It makes me want to round up some of the people who say that and subject them to the forbidden words: double blind testing.
  
 I'm very impressed by and happy with my Gumby.  Just what am I missing?


----------



## sheldaze

audiobear said:


> I'd like to read some objective Gumby vs Yggy reviews by people who have extensive experience with each.  At $1000 more I would expect Yggy to sound better than Gumby. Given the familial relationship there ought to be a lot of similarities as well.  Over in the Yggy threads I keep reading posts which claim there is a huge difference between the two and the real comparison is Bimby to Gumpy because Gumby just doesn't compare to Yggy.  Yggy is Nirvana, Gumby just another DAC.   I frankly find that hard to believe.  It makes me want to round up some of the people who say that and subject them to the forbidden words: double blind testing.
> 
> I'm very impressed by and happy with my Gumby.  *Just what am I missing?*


 
 Nothing...
 Perhaps just a little clarity on the Yggdrasil 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Objective...subjective...I dunno?
  
 ::
  
 I do know that I have two systems - my goal, after reading how horrible the Gungnir Multibit sounded out of the single-ended outputs, was to upgrade my Bifrost to Multibit and use it in my speaker system, as it would naturally be best at single-ended output and my speaker system (limping along, according to what I read, fed from the unbalanced outputs of the Gungnir) would be greatly improved. After the upgrade to Bifrost Multibit, I listened about 3 days to my speaker system, and simply decided I was missing too much - it turned out I had downgraded from the Gungnir (single-ended) to the Bifrost, and it was simply too much of a downgrade.
  
 My systems today...
  
 1) My Gungnir is now in a balanced desktop headphone system, through a Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon.
 2) My Yggdrasil is now in a balanced speaker/headphone system, through the Ragnarok. This is the replacement for my previously unbalanced speaker system.
  
 Oh, and I also listened to the Yggdrasil on my previous unbalanced speaker system, before getting the Ragnarok - I loved it too! Like I started this post, the difference between Gungnir single-ended and Yggdrasil single-ended was just a little clarity.
  
 ::
  
 The difference, to my ears, between Gungnir and Bifrost is about the same as the difference between Yggdrasil and Gungnir, but the difference is, well...different! One upgrade is simply clarity (Yggy -> Gumby), and the other upgrade (Bimby -> Gumby) to me adds dynamics, space and stage presence. My ears, my gears, yadda yadda, and YMMV!
  
 And sorry for the wandering, longish, post...


----------



## bigro

This Was Posted By Atomic Bob in the Schiit happens Thread. He Has Access to all three and does a great job summing up his impressions of each.
  
 Quote:


atomicbob said:


> What follows is deep in personal preference territory, so purist objectivists be forewarned (not aimed at you  @FrivolsListener .)
> 
> I use the yggdrasil and an Auralic Vega for day job audio research and production work as neutral, exemplary representatives of multibit and delta-sigma DACs. When it comes time for recreational listening I like to turn off the analytical section of my brain and just enjoy music. GuMB and BiMB both are better for this purpose, for me, with their slight loss of resolution and slight leaning towards euphonic presentation. If listening to well recorded and transferred hi-res format music, then the GuMB has more to offer than the BiMB. GuMB also has balanced outputs which have technical advantages. However, I have a lot of CDs in my collection that date back to the beginning of digital time and were played originally on a CDP101 (yeah, I'm a fossil.) Many of these benefit from the multibit magic combined with just a touch less resolution. Last night I listened (on the system pictured here) to four CDs I hadn't heard in 20 years:
> 
> ...


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/8700#post_12074706


----------



## AudioBear

sheldaze said:


> My systems today...
> 
> 1) My Gungnir is now in a balanced desktop headphone system, through a Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon.
> 2) My Yggdrasil is now in a balanced speaker/headphone system, through the Ragnarok. This is the replacement for my previously unbalanced speaker system.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, not longish, useful!  Just the kind of thoughtful musing I was curious about.  When my Liquid Carbon arrives late this week or next, I will have your system 1).   Your system 2) is what I am considering adding to the mix so you were the perfect responder for me.  Hope others add to what you have stated.  It may be confirmation bias on my part but the differences you report are about what I expected.


----------



## Dalgas

Well - I could not forget the sweet TDA1543 sound.
  
 So I bought a ready-made DIY DAC based on 8 TDA1543 chips, with reclocking and NOS (non oversampling). The thing ONLY accept 16/44 but - WOW - it blew the Gumby out of the water! Vokals in particular are much more natural and the bass (always been the weak point of the Gungnir) is more punchy!
  
 The Gumby still presents more details and a bigger stereoimage - but has more digital glare than the DIY NOS. Unbelievable - since I find the Gumby very strong here.


----------



## Dalgas

.


----------



## Dalgas

.


----------



## Dalgas

.


----------



## Dalgas

.


----------



## Dalgas

Sorry for the multible posts - nothing happend when i klicked on "Submit" - except somthing did


----------



## mikoss

dalgas said:


> Well - I could not forget the sweet TDA1543 sound.
> 
> So I bought a ready-made DIY DAC based on 8 TDA1543 chips, with reclocking and NOS (non oversampling). The thing ONLY accept 16/44 but - WOW - it blew the Gumby out of the water! Vokals in particular are much more natural and the bass (always been the weak point of the Gungnir) is more punchy!
> 
> The Gumby still presents more details and a bigger stereoimage - but has more digital glare than the DIY NOS. Unbelievable - since I find the Gumby very strong here.


 
 Really... I've always found the Moffatt bass to deliver. I think it's one of the strong points of both the Yggdrasil and MB Gungnir (haven't heard the MB Bifrost, so can't comment on it).
  
 The TDA1543 has less dynamic range, rated at 16 bits... has anyone measured what that TDA1543 DIY DAC is actually capable of delivering for noise floor? I think the Schiit DACs delivering >16 bits of actual performance is phenomenal, and this is one of many reasons why they sound superb.


----------



## Argo Duck

Dalgas' post is only the 2nd I have seen that states Moffat bass is a "weak point". It seems clear Schiit DACs are not the best fit for Dalgas' listening whereas the TDA1543 DIY DAC fits very well.

As Jason and Mike have noted that building the perfect DAC (amp etc) for _everyone_ is not possible.

For sure. This is one of the most personal, subjective hobbies around. It's also one with many stages. Listening skills, preferences, what sounds 'right'...all seem to change often.

The gear I used to think sounded 'good' or 'bad', and the flaws (and strengths!) I didn't notice in past years...


----------



## reddog

argo duck said:


> Dalgas' post is only the 2nd I have seen that states Moffat bass is a "weak point". It seems clear Schiit DACs are not the best fit for Dalgas' listening whereas the TDA1543 DIY DAC fits very well.
> 
> As Jason and Mike have noted that building the perfect DAC (amp etc) for _everyone_ is not possible.
> 
> ...




Well said sir, well said indeed. I am sure how a person hears changes, as that person ages. Plus this hobby is very subjective. What one likes may be disliked by another person. I just hope I can try out other equipment, so I offer more subjective opinion .


----------



## Maconi

mikoss said:


> Really... I've always found the Moffatt bass to deliver. I think it's one of the strong points of both the Yggdrasil and MB Gungnir (haven't heard the MB Bifrost, so can't comment on it).
> 
> The TDA1543 has less dynamic range, rated at 16 bits... has anyone measured what that TDA1543 DIY DAC is actually capable of delivering for noise floor? I think the Schiit DACs delivering >16 bits of actual performance is phenomenal, and this is one of many reasons why they sound superb.


 
 I think testing revealed the Yggdrasil is really only capable of 13 bits (it looks like the MB Gungnir has an advantage @ -90dB vs -78dB). atomicbob said he would eventually retest it to make sure that was correct but never did (it's been months) and he posted on another forum that he's been withholding some of his test info on the Yggdrasil because he's afraid people will judge it by its numbers rather than its sound.
  
 I have my eyes set on a Yggy but I want a black one and am willing to wait however long it takes to snag one lol (and who knows, an even better DAC may pop up before then).


----------



## atomicbob

maconi said:


> I think testing revealed the Yggdrasil is really only capable of 13 bits (it looks like the MB Gungnir has an advantage @ -90dB vs -78dB). atomicbob said he would eventually retest it to make sure that was correct but never did (it's been months) and he posted on another forum that he's been withholding some of his test info on the Yggdrasil because he's afraid people will judge it by its numbers rather than its sound.
> 
> I have my eyes set on a Yggy but I want a black one and am willing to wait however long it takes to snag one lol (and who knows, an even better DAC may pop up before then).


 
 That is counter to my measurements. If you look at the dynamic range measurement (3rd graph) in the original post 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/764787/yggdrasil-technical-measurements
  
 you will see this graph (also included below) clearly indicating 122 dB dynamic range. That is a lot more than 78 dB.
  
 The only retest necessary affected the THD measurement below 500 Hz due to a driver issue in Windows during the test. The graph indicates yggdrasil a higher THD below 500 Hz than it actually will measure when the driver issue doesn't interfere. I haven't returned to this particular graph for the yggdrasil as performing a suite of measurements typically involves several hours of setup and then 4 ~ 8 hrs of actual measurement and graphing. My corporate life has been very busy for the last several months.
  
 As to the data reserved, that had to do with the Bifrost MB which does have 16 good bits, a little lower than the more expensive Gungnir MB and Yggdrasil. I published the data but voiced my reservations. People who worry over single numbers too obsessively might miss out on a great listening experience. I also did not wish to publish some graphs that take considerable explanation to non-engineering types as to their interpretation. The ones published have kept my inbox busy enough.
  
 yggdrasil dynamic range:


----------



## Maconi

atomicbob said:


> That is counter to my measurements. If you look at the dynamic range measurement (3rd graph) in the original post
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/764787/yggdrasil-technical-measurements
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was referring to the Yggdrasil's THD measurement, 0.01169% which is 78dB or 13 bits right? I'll admit I don't even fully understand the measurement (how 13 bits is derived from it). A lot of people like to bring it up when talking about the Yggy because it seems to be one of the only marks against it (for those who are obsessed with the numbers).
  
 Do you think the technical difficulties you had with the measurement is why the THD measured higher on the Yggy than the GMB, or is that just a trait of the GMB?
  

  
 Personally it doesn't bother me, especially since so many (trustworthy) people still seem to gravitate towards the Yggy. Which is why I'm still holding out for a black one (to go with my Cavalli Liquid Carbon) soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks for all you do BTW. Obviously someone with your knowledge/tools is going to stay busy.


----------



## atomicbob

maconi said:


> I was referring to the Yggdrasil's THD measurement, 0.01169% which is 78dB or 13 bits right? I'll admit I don't even fully understand the measurement (how 13 bits is derived from it). A lot of people like to bring it up when talking about the Yggy because it seems to be one of the only marks against it (for those who are obsessed with the numbers).
> 
> Do you think the technical difficulties you had with the measurement is why the THD measured higher on the Yggy than the GMB, or is that just a trait of the GMB?
> 
> ...


 
  
 From the title of that graph:
 THD and THD+N - unweighted - update 20150603 - this measurement is not correct - update coming soon
  
 From the commentary I wrote at the end of that post:
 Commentary:
  
By now, some of you probably have noted the THD+N graph may not be the lowest ever seen.
  
 The THD+N graph measures artificially high due to a driver / OS interaction on my computer. An update will be forthcoming.
  
 I haven't made the updated yggdrasil THD measurement. Each set of measurements that I have published on these forums have been made on borrowed time. They consume a fair amount of time and I really just haven't revisited the yggdrasil. By the time I measured the Gungnir MB I had worked out the os driver interaction issues and the Gungnir THD measurement is correct. *The yggdrasil THD measurement is not correct.* Those numbers reported in the graph should be IGNORED. They are due to measurement error. When I find time to work in the yggdrasil measurements again I am confident they will measure as good as or better then the Gungner MB.
  
 One last time, my THD measurement of the yggdrasil is in error. Would everybody please ignore the numbers associated with that graph such as the 0.01169%.
  
 When I have re-measured I will post the updated graph and numbers and also note on the post that the graph has been corrected.


----------



## AudioBear

I'm a long time audio hobbyist who lacks a degree in EE. When I look at a discussion like the above I have a lot of trouble getting my mind around why 0.01169%THD would be of any concern at all since the transducers that the sound comes out of are doing well to have 0.1% THD if we're lucky and often are a lot worse. I've also read that when masked by music we can't hear much higher levels of distortion.  I admit I may be missing something here but it's always seemed to me that most modern DACs test out on paper way better than differences we actually hear between them.  I've come to believe in my blissful ignorance that there are other differences between them than what is measured that makes one DAC sound distinctly good like Yggy and others with great specs which sound, well, "meh."  My suspicion is it has to do with timing, jitter, and phase errors, and a bunch of stuff like that--but what the heck do I know?  I just read forums..  As a research scientist I am into data and objectivism so I have no problem with measurements as long as they are meaningful.  I even believe in double-blind testing.  Like many of you I have concluded that while the measurements need to be good and that's why we ask for them, they are simply not measuring whatever it is that makes a difference between DACs so I use my ears.  I think someone has already said this.
  
 Please look on this post as more of a plea to have someone explain this all to me rather than a criticism of anything anybody has said above. I have read a lot about how to interpret measurements  and still come up empty.


----------



## atomicbob

My own experimentation and the work of others has suggested a high level of 2nd order harmonic distortion may be tolerated and possibly viewed as a positive enhancement to our auditory experiences, but even slight amounts of 3rd harmonic distortion bother us, detracting from the experience. Unfortunately THD combines both and worse rolls it all up into a single number. Graphs are far more informative, especially when 2nd and 3rd harmonic are independently reported. In the future I may write scripts for my measurement systems to produce these graphs a bit more automatically rather than the very manual method I employ suffer.
  
 Here is a good presentation on the topic from Rocky Mountain Audio Fest by a very knowledgeable fellow from Audio Precision Jonathan Novick:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V6YN-mshmY
  
 It is a one hour presentation and will tell you much more than I can type in a short post.


----------



## Nalor

Another approach in learning about what we hear is to read about Perceptual Audio Codec developments and patents. Many years ago I read some of the patents in the area, but sadly its been so long that I've forgotten the details. There was a lot of research also done by the phone company about what we hear.
  
 I'm only putting this forward as a method of learning about accoustics, and I'm not advocating for Perceptual Audio Codec's (I listen to FLAC). But there is a lot of information about how we hear and how sound interacts from that research.


----------



## atomicbob

nalor said:


> Another approach in learning about what we hear is to read about Perceptual Audio Codec developments and patents. Many years ago I read some of the patents in the area, but sadly its been so long that I've forgotten the details. There was a lot of research also done by the phone company about what we hear.
> 
> I'm only putting this forward as a method of learning about accoustics, and I'm not advocating for Perceptual Audio Codec's (I listen to FLAC). But there is a lot of information about how we hear and how sound interacts from that research.


 
 That is a really good suggestion. May I recommend books and articles written by:
 Harvey Fletcher, Speech and Hearing in Communications
 James L. Flanagan, Speech Analysis, Synthesis and Perception
 James D. Johnston, various IEEE and AES presentations and papers


----------



## AudioBear

Thanks all.  Much more to learn which is good.


----------



## atomicbob

maconi said:


> I was referring to the Yggdrasil's THD measurement, 0.01169% which is 78dB or 13 bits right? I'll admit I don't even fully understand the measurement (how 13 bits is derived from it). A lot of people like to bring it up when talking about the Yggy because it seems to be one of the only marks against it (for those who are obsessed with the numbers).
> 
> Do you think the technical difficulties you had with the measurement is why the THD measured higher on the Yggy than the GMB, or is that just a trait of the GMB?
> 
> ...


 
 The THD and THD+N measurement in the yggdrasil technical measurements post has been updated with a correct measurement today. 2015.12.12.


----------



## Maconi

atomicbob said:


> maconi said:
> 
> 
> > I was referring to the Yggdrasil's THD measurement, 0.01169% which is 78dB or 13 bits right? I'll admit I don't even fully understand the measurement (how 13 bits is derived from it). A lot of people like to bring it up when talking about the Yggy because it seems to be one of the only marks against it (for those who are obsessed with the numbers).
> ...


 
  
 Nice. Thanks for everything you do. Now the naysayers don't have much ammo left and can see why the Yggy is so loved.


----------



## mikoss

FWIW, I have yet to see another DAC with a measured output DR of 122dB. Anyone?

Edit: also listening to John Coltrane - A Love Supreme: the Complete Masters on Gumby. Check the percussion on disc 1, track 3. Unbelievably clear and expressive with Gumby. A knockout.


----------



## Nalor

atomicbob said:


> That is a really good suggestion. May I recommend books and articles written by:
> Harvey Fletcher, Speech and Hearing in Communications
> James L. Flanagan, Speech Analysis, Synthesis and Perception
> James D. Johnston, various IEEE and AES presentations and papers


 
 Thanks  I've made a note of those articles to read them someday when I have more time. There is a lot though on my reading queue right now, so it will be a while.


----------



## tonykaz

Mr. Atomicbob,
  
 I took your recommendation and watched the Audio Precision segment of RMAF 2015, wow, quite an eye-opener.
  
 I also had a look at the other Seminars ( yawners ).   Novick was the Keynote of the entire bunch.
  
 This Novick presentation pretty much scared me off trying DIY Amp building ( or DIY DAC building, for that matter ). 
  
 I have a renewed appreciation for the detail work being done by Designers navigating the complex world of Electronic components and the levels of Testing Gear needed to properly evaluate work results. 
  
 Jason Stodard just wrote a chapter on the development of the new Vali 2 amp which falls right in line with the careful work you report being involved with.  It seems the Project Sunrise 3 now has a Schiit 'fellow traveler' for us curious folks to play around and explore with.  
  
 2015 is closing out as a great year of discovery for me:  Audiologist Testing, Multi-bit DACs, Direct Axis Equalization with little Tubes being the Grand Finale.  I can now evaluate transducers with confidence.   
  
 You have proved to be a reliable source of information.  
  
 Thank you,
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## atomicbob

mikoss said:


> FWIW, I have yet to see another DAC with a measured output DR of 122dB. Anyone?
> 
> Edit: also listening to John Coltrane - A Love Supreme: the Complete Masters on Gumby. Check the percussion on disc 1, track 3. Unbelievably clear and expressive with Gumby. A knockout.


Excellent! I need to hear this. Guess what is on my wish list for the holidays.


----------



## atomicbob

@tonykaz - the vali 2 is intriguing. Hope to hear one of these. Have a Magni 2 and Asgard 2 in for evaluation. Hope to make measurements in near future. My ears tell me these are also high performance / price amps.


----------



## tonykaz

Mr. AB again,
  
 Mr.mikoss is talking 122db of Dynamic Range, I think.  
  
 Are there recorded musics out there with that kind of Dynamic Range?, I though our Vinyl had about 60db, at it's best.  
  
 My personal listening environment starts well below 50db ambient, maybe in the 35db range.  How could I experience the full 122db range?, I'd be listening at the 150db peaks with my head exploding, wouldn't I?  
  
 Is it a kind of "it'll do it but it'll kill you in the process" sort of bragging thing? 
  
 Am I missing something here? 
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## Baldr

Why not?  You get it for free with the DACs anyway, as long as you match it in the rest of the design (power supply, etc).
  
 The real deal is the mega combo burrito filter together with the DACs


----------



## tonykaz

Mr.Baldr,
  
 I understand the Gear delivers it but is there recorded music out there with this kind of Dynamic Range? 
  
 I guess my question is about the Mastering Studios building-in that much Dynamic Range.
  
 I was at the Detroit Symphony last weekend, they played Mahler2 which I'm told never exceeded 120db in the Audience area, it was thunderously loud, louder than anything I've ever heard.  I wonder if I ever owned transducers capable of that level.
  
 By the way, I love your work.
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## atomicbob

tonykaz said:


> Mr. AB again,
> 
> Mr.mikoss is talking 122db of Dynamic Range, I think.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Tony,
  
 I measured 122 dB for the yggdrasil dynamic range, to which mikoss refers. You can indeed use all of the range, but not in the way you are thinking. First, it is more than desirable to have a margin of signal to noise floor at the low end of the range. 20 dB margin is good, more is better. Think of it like the contrast ratio on displays of the faintest image vs. complete black. At the top end of the range we need headroom to accommodate peaks that come with crest factor, if the music hasn't been compressed and limited all to hell, loudness wars style. Assuming 10 dB for crest factor, we now have 122 - (20 + 10) = 92 dB for actual average SPL range. A quiet concert hall may achieve 40 dB SPL during a dramatic pause, with a cooperative and quiet audience. During a thunderous loud passage, an orchestra may achieve 120 dB, amplified groups 130 dB SPL. That is 80 to 90 dB of dynamic range.
  
 yggdrasil is particularly good for well recorded classical music given a very black, noise free lower limit and plenty of headroom at the high end, when the playback system is capable and gain staged properly. Many headphones are easily capable of producing over 130 dB SPL at the ears.


----------



## tonykaz

Professor AB,
  
 I'm flabbergasted, I've never read of nor heard an explanation like this.  Phew!  I expect other Audio Engineering folks already have this as a Given, it's news to me. 
  
 The concept of Consumer Audio reproductions system having a latent capability of performing 92db is astonishing, loudspeaker Amp capabilities must be staggering considering typical efficiencies of 82db for the 'first' watt, wattage doubling for each additional 3db. will quickly take us well past the 1,000 Watt levels.
  
 I guess I can now begin to understand the importance of your headphone Amplifier measurements and headphone efficiency ratings, we're getting close to maxing out our little Amps with headphones trying to accurately reproduce at these incredible levels.
  
 You're pulling back the curtains on the technicalities of all things headphone & digital reproduction.  This last four weeks of your posts could be weaved together into a One Hour Seminar at RMAF, I'd be spellbound sitting in the Audience.   
  
 This post from you begins to explain my personal experience with my phenomenal HD580s, I've never owned a Large Loudspeaker system as musically capable.  I'll ask my Cardiologist if I can risk venturing into the 24 bit world, Mahler 2 at Detroit Symphony last weekend was frightening for me, I felt like I was Over-dosing on drugs, it was hitting 120db in my seating area.  
  
 I have to think about all this, I'll re-read your explanation a couple more times over the next two or three days.  This seems profound.
  
 Thank you,
  
 Tony in MIchigan
  
 ps.  I think OPPO is the only headphone maker claiming musical abilities greater than 100db., I forget which model but there's only three. ( your statement of headphone abilities is Big News! )


----------



## Nalor

atomicbob said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> I measured 122 dB for the yggdrasil dynamic range, to which mikoss refers. You can indeed use all of the range, but not in the way you are thinking. First, it is more than desirable to have a margin of signal to noise floor at the low end of the range. 20 dB margin is good, more is better. Think of it like the contrast ratio on displays of the faintest image vs. complete black. At the top end of the range we need headroom to accommodate peaks that come with crest factor, if the music hasn't been compressed and limited all to hell, loudness wars style. Assuming 10 dB for crest factor, we now have 122 - (20 + 10) = 92 dB for actual average SPL range. A quiet concert hall may achieve 40 dB SPL during a dramatic pause, with a cooperative and quiet audience. During a thunderous loud passage, an orchestra may achieve 120 dB, amplified groups 130 dB SPL. That is 80 to 90 dB of dynamic range.
> 
> yggdrasil is particularly good for well recorded classical music given a very black, noise free lower limit and plenty of headroom at the high end, when the playback system is capable and gain staged properly. Many headphones are easily capable of producing over 130 dB SPL at the ears.


 
 And this is where you give the hearing warning. 130dB SPL at the ears is more than enough for permanent hearing loss. I'm always amazed by the dynamic range, and people forgetting that at the top end, if you use it, its going to hurt.


----------



## Dalgas

argo duck said:


> Dalgas' post is only the 2nd I have seen that states Moffat bass is a "weak point". It seems clear Schiit DACs are not the best fit for Dalgas' listening whereas the TDA1543 DIY DAC fits very well.
> 
> As Jason and Mike have noted that building the perfect DAC (amp etc) for _everyone_ is not possible.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think you have a strong point there! I am going to test the two DACs once more with a friend of mine. He has a different setup with full range floorspeakers and a USB/SPDIF converter. I am not ready to rule out - and sell - my Gumby just yet.
  
 Also the digital cables I used is of mediocre quality - and maybe the Gumby is more sensitive/revealing here.
  
 Finally I will definately try a different source - USB/SPDIF converter and my labtop.


----------



## jcn3

tonykaz said:


> Professor AB,
> 
> I'm flabbergasted, I've never read of nor heard an explanation like this.  Phew!  I expect other Audio Engineering folks already have this as a Given, it's news to me.
> 
> ...


 
  
 i think the point that's being lost here is that dynamic range is different from volume level.  there's also signal to noise ratios and speaker sensitivities.  all happen to be measured in decibels (db) and mean different things.
  
 dynamic range of a dac or music files represents the ability to discern between a range of sounds -- it's sensitivity.
  
 the volume at which we listen to something is entirely different.  listening for prolonged periods to sounds with a volume of as little as 95 db can result in hearing loss.  i would bet few of us listen to music at levels consistently over 90 db.


----------



## atomicbob

nalor said:


> And this is where you give the hearing warning. 130dB SPL at the ears is more than enough for permanent hearing loss. I'm always amazed by the dynamic range, and people forgetting that at the top end, if you use it, its going to hurt.


 
  
  


jcn3 said:


> i think the point that's being lost here is that dynamic range is different from volume level.  there's also signal to noise ratios and speaker sensitivities.  all happen to be measured in decibels (db) and mean different things.
> 
> dynamic range of a dac or music files represents the ability to discern between a range of sounds -- it's sensitivity.
> 
> the volume at which we listen to something is entirely different.  listening for prolonged periods to sounds with a volume of as little as 95 db can result in hearing loss.  i would bet few of us listen to music at levels consistently over 90 db.


 
  
*Both very good points for everyone to note.* Indeed, long listening sessions to Sound Pressure Levels (SPL) above 85 dB is a recipe for hearing loss. I prefer to gain stage my setup for 78 dB SPL average, 88 dB SPL peak listening and let the DAC have an exceedingly black background, very low noise floor, for most of my listening. Occasionally I allow myself some higher levels for brief periods.
  
 Unfortunately I have observed some others that listen at much higher levels, and this concerns me for their long term hearing ability.


----------



## atomicbob

tonykaz said:


> <edit>
> 
> I guess I can now begin to understand the importance of your headphone Amplifier measurements and headphone efficiency ratings, we're getting close to maxing out our little Amps with headphones trying to accurately reproduce at these incredible levels.
> 
> ...


 
 Just because one has the capability doesn't mean one need use it. Gain staging for an 85 dB experience and listening at lower levels in general has the benefit of preserving one's hearing and letting the system have an astonishing black background. The playback isn't obvious as being recorded when there is no residual hiss, hum or other extraneous noise.
  
 Most manufacturers avoid mentioning an upper limit as it is a function of distortion. People love to compare numbers, even if they don't fully appreciate how those numbers were measured. So one mfg can say 107 dB (fine print 0.02% distortion at 1 KHz) while another publishes 130 dB (probably 10% at 1 KHz.) so 130 is larger than 107. Easy. Except they were measured to different distortion specs. The former may be far more transparent a headphone, and 107 dB is plenty LOUD. BTW, the 107 dB example is for Sennheiser HD800. The spec is 0.02% THD at 1 KHz for 1Vrms and one needs to calculate the SPL using the sensitivity of 102 dB/mW and the 300 ohm nominal impedance. 1Vrms will produce 3.33 mW into 300 ohms. 3.33 mW will drive the HD800 5.22 dB higher than at 1mW so we have 102 + 5 = 107 dB SPL at 0.02% distortion at 1 KHz.


----------



## ToTo Man

atomicbob said:


> Just because one has the capability doesn't mean one need use it. Gain staging for an 85 dB experience and listening at lower levels in general has the benefit of preserving one's hearing and letting the system have an astonishing black background. The playback isn't obvious as being recorded when there is no residual hiss, hum or other extraneous noise.


 
 Loudspeakers can be measured using an SPL meter at the listening position, but how does one easily measure how loud they are listening on their headphones without specialist equipment?  [EDIT - It's ok I found this thread: www.head-fi.org/t/507953/what-do-you-use-to-measure-sound-levels].
 
 I have to fight the urge to crank my headphones little by little as the listening session goes on (I start off quiet but almost always finish up loud as my ears get used to the SPLs and don't think it's as loud as it really is!).  Anyone else have this problem?
  
 PS - I know you were referring to end-user playback equipment induced noise, but the presence of hiss is reassuring if it is present on the original recording.  There's nothing worse than those remasters that have been "de-noised" with noise reduction and have had the life and air sucked out of them!...


----------



## ToTo Man

.


----------



## tonykaz

Dear AB,
  
 phew, that is a relief, I don't think I could handle the emotional stress of high SPL levels.
  
 I find myself dialing-down on many Classical Recording's thunderous passages.  I'm probably listening at much lower levels than those you just quoted because my HD580s never seem stressed to the point of breaking-up, I've heard and admired the HD800s which seem to have greater 'headroom' than my stuff.  
  
 And, thanks for the explanation about the Yggy dynamic range being comfortably greater than the Music it's playing, I think I get the picture of it having room on either side of the actual music's dynamic range which leaves me pondering the capabilities of the DAC I'm using.
  
 Well, I'm seeing a developing image of the requirements behind being able to reproduce digital music. Back in the day we seemed to have gear designed by Ear, now engineers have precise and accurate measurement tools.  I'm suspecting that Audio Design is no longer in the Dark Ages.  I'm lov'n it!  
  
 Mr Novick at Audio Precision offered to test anyones gear ( at the RMAF room ), which has me contemplating sending my stuff off to be properly tested.  After all, I'm having my own hearing accurately evaluated, why not my audio gear?  Tyll has a large catalog of graphs for hundreds of Audiophile headphones, I wonder if someone will develop a catalog of graphs of Amplifiers and DACs?
  
 I feel like I'm watching the knowledge Genie escaping the Consumer Products Bottle.  
  
 250 years ago Ben Franklin gave us the Lightning Rod and we've come this far!,  what would our life be like if god gave Moses the lightning rod along with the 10 Commandments, at least 4,000 years ago? Phew, the Romans might've invited the iPhone for krice'sake. 
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## mikoss

I also don't listen at high volumes, but can easily hear the ability of the Multibit DACs to resolve micro details. They are quite revealing, without sounding sterile or overly crisp. 

Also, nice to see paragraphs Tony. You've come a long way sir...


----------



## tonykaz

Hello mikoss,
  
 At times I only have a tiny keypad to peck out bullet points.
  
 plus, I'm nearly blind so composing properly whilst in a time constraint creates brevity. 
  
 My official communications would have one or two editors putting on a nice flowing polish to things.
  
 I am typically coming or going a long way but that work is nearly tapered down, I'm having time for Tony now, except for my wife needing constant attention.
  
 Tony in Michigan
  
 ps.  Canada is wonderful!


----------



## atomicbob

toto man said:


> <edit>
> 
> PS - I know you were referring to end-user playback equipment induced noise, but the presence of hiss is reassuring if it is present on the original recording.  There's nothing worse than those remasters that have been "de-noised" with noise reduction and have had the life and air sucked out of them!...


 
 Oh, I totally agree. If the tape hiss from the original session is present, I'd rather that then even the best of de-noisers (Cedar comes to mind.) Yes, I am referring to the playback system not adding anything to the original recording.


----------



## Nalor

atomicbob said:


> *Both very good points for everyone to note.* Indeed, long listening sessions to Sound Pressure Levels (SPL) above 85 dB is a recipe for hearing loss. I prefer to gain stage my setup for 78 dB SPL average, 88 dB SPL peak listening and let the DAC have an exceedingly black background, very low noise floor, for most of my listening. Occasionally I allow myself some higher levels for brief periods.
> 
> Unfortunately I have observed some others that listen at much higher levels, and this concerns me for their long term hearing ability.


 
 And then you forget the high transient in the recording, have the volume raised for those mostly quiet passages... then boom! Happens too many times for me.


----------



## tonykaz

Tape Hiss and all the other little things like rumble and stage noises that one can hear are fascinating.  
  
 I was just listening to a Jascha Heifetz recording from 1959 where all manner of sounds were captured on the released recording, a Joshua Bell recording of the same music from 2013 seems wonderfully clean by comparison. Both are delightful!   
  
 It seems magical to me that I can reproduce these musical experiences at such a low cost, it would've cost a fortune to have this capability 30 years ago and I can still have it whilst sitting in an Airport Lounge or a Park Bench overlooking the Bosphorus Straights. 
  
 I wonder what it would be like to be selling AK240 digital players to my customers back in 1984? ( for $3,000 ),  could a Conrad-Johnson Premiere Amp or Preamp survive that kind of competition? 
  
 The next two years are going to get exciting for us Audiophiles if this last year is any indication ( I think it is ).
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## ahnafakeef

Hello everyone. Do Gungnirs come with XLR cables? Thank you.


----------



## sheldaze

ahnafakeef said:


> Hello everyone. Do Gungnirs come with XLR cables? Thank you.


 

 Just the DAC and a power cord.


----------



## ahnafakeef

sheldaze said:


> Just the DAC and a power cord.


 
 Bummer. I didn't order XLR cables but just figured out that I should be running balanced and not single-ended for the best performance.
  
 Sorry for the rant. Thank you for the prompt response. Much appreciated.


----------



## Nalor

I use mine in Single Ended Configuration, and it works great. (Connected to a Lyr 2 and Valhalla 2) So do not fret too much


----------



## atomicbob

nalor said:


> I use mine in Single Ended Configuration, and it works great. (Connected to a Lyr 2 and Valhalla 2) So do not fret too much


 
 Also use mine in SE config with a Liquid Crimson. Sounds excellent. I agree with @Nalor ,  don't worry, be happy.


----------



## tonykaz

Dear AB,
  
 While we're at it,  where did folks get the idea that Balanced was better than SE?
  
 Pro Audio folks use it for Loooooooong runs and it's considered better for it's noise canceling but we never used it in Consumer installations ( did we? ), nor do we have noisy environments to contend with.  
  
 Back in 1980 Meridian gave us the choice of using either Balanced or SE with the M2, M3 and M10s  we were Importing. We chose SE which allowed Cable choices of Monster Reference Interconnects and a wide range of other Outfits Interconnects including MIT Interface interconnects. If we'd limited ourselves to Balanced we'd only had Pro Audio Wire which was considered less musical.  All the Meridian Active loudspeakers could be configured either way because they were designed for Pro applications as well as Consumer.     
  
 In the headphone world : Balanced is some sort of Sacred Cow.  
  
 Maybe I'm just not a Hindu! or Jewish for that matter ( didn't the Jews make a Gold Cow while Moses was up in the Mountains? )
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## Dalgas

ahnafakeef said:


> Hello everyone. Do Gungnirs come with XLR cables? Thank you.


 
 No - it don´t!
  
 Tip: Check out Grimm Audio TPR. The best XLR i have EVER heard!


----------



## Dalgas

tonykaz said:


> Dear AB,
> 
> While we're at it,  where did folks get the idea that Balanced was better than SE?
> 
> ...


 
 Come on! Why use twice the number of components making a balanced DAC, if it is not better than SE??
  
 Besides I have come across a reply from Jason saying exactly that.


----------



## sheldaze

tonykaz said:


> While we're at it,  where did folks get the idea that Balanced was better than SE?


 
 This post:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/763905/finding-a-dac-for-the-cavalli-liquid-carbon-only-four-months-to-go/1005#post_11872598
  
 Not sure about all the other philosophy stuff you wrote 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But it has been _generally_ said because it was _once_ said in the above post that Gungnir sounds better through balanced. I had to unsubscribe from the DAC19 thread because there was a large quantity of merciless Schiit-bashing going on there. If you got it and you like it, keep it! No need to accuse the other guys of doing something wrongly. Single-ended from Yggdrasil and Gungnir sound just fine to my ears.


----------



## ToTo Man

To re-iterate a post I made several pages ago in this thread, I was lucky enough to have the Gumby + Mjol2 + Ether on home demo, during which time I had wired both single-ended and balanced so that I could flip back and forth between the two circuits.  To my ears, and after adjusting for the obvious difference in SPLs, balanced sounded superior to SE.  There were subtle improvements in clarity, presence, separation, spaciousness and dynamics, particularly in the mids.  Overall the sound became more holographic with more space between the layers.  Switching from SE to balanced between DAC and amp, and SE to balanced between amp and headphones, each made a contribution to this small improvement.  So IME of Gumby + Mjolnir2 + Ether, all-balanced > part-balanced > all-SE.  However I would not go as far as Stillhart's opinion that it's not worth buying Gumby if you are limited to SE.  The differences are not as stark as that IMO.


----------



## sheldaze

toto man said:


> To re-iterate a post I made several pages ago in this thread, I was lucky enough to have the Gumby + Mjol2 + Ether on home demo, during which time I had wired both single-ended and balanced so that I could flip back and forth between the two circuits.  To my ears, and after adjusting for the obvious difference in SPLs, balanced sounded superior to SE.  There were subtle improvements in clarity, presence, separation, spaciousness and dynamics, particularly in the mids.  Overall the sound became more holographic with more space between the layers.  Switching from SE to balanced between DAC and amp, and SE to balanced between amp and headphones, each made a contribution to this small improvement.  So IME of Gumby + Mjolnir2 + Ether, all-balanced > part-balanced > all-SE.  However I would not go as far as Stillhart's opinion that it's not worth buying Gumby if you are limited to SE.  The differences are not as stark as that IMO.


 
 Sorry, I missed this - thanks for the repost!
 My current setup is Gumby > Liquid Carbon > HE-1000. I guess I'll have to A/B to compare the outputs from Gumby too


----------



## shabta

toto man said:


> To re-iterate a post I made several pages ago in this thread, I was lucky enough to have the Gumby + Mjol2 + Ether on home demo, during which time I had wired both single-ended and balanced so that I could flip back and forth between the two circuits.  To my ears, and after adjusting for the obvious difference in SPLs, balanced sounded superior to SE.  There were subtle improvements in clarity, presence, separation, spaciousness and dynamics, particularly in the mids.  Overall the sound became more holographic with more space between the layers.  Switching from SE to balanced between DAC and amp, and SE to balanced between amp and headphones, each made a contribution to this small improvement.  So IME of Gumby + Mjolnir2 + Ether, all-balanced > part-balanced > all-SE.  However I would not go as far as Stillhart's opinion that it's not worth buying Gumby if you are limited to SE.  The differences are not as stark as that IMO.


 
 It is really hard to determine from either test, the one above or stillhart's, whether the issue was SE vs. Balanced is DAC or amp. It seems more likely the issues was the amp. Most amps that run balanced, sound better balanced no matter what the input is...


----------



## crazychile

tonykaz said:


> Dear AB,
> 
> While we're at it,  where did folks get the idea that Balanced was better than SE?
> 
> ...


 

 Tony,
 Back in the day, I think it was more of an economic consideration to go with single ended over balanced, rather than the lack of cable choices. To do balanced (correctly) significantly increases the cost of the product, which would have put a lot of gear out of budget for many people. For consumer stuff the standard RCA cable was the defacto connection since what?...the 50's? So there was little incentive to buck the trend. Mark Levinson and Naim were a few that decided to use non-standard connections, but not many others.
  
 The first balanced gear I ever owned was some Bryston stuff from the very early 90's. I worked for a dealer at the time and remember getting the story from one of the owners of Bryston, that they sort of fell into the home market. During the 80's, Pro was their core business but people kept wanting to use it in their home systems because it sounded good and (at that time) was reasonably priced. Then in the 90's Stereophile started giving them great reviews and the brand took off. I can't help but think we have to give Bryston some credit for being one of a few that  woke up other high end companies to the possibilities of going balanced.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Thanks for the responses, everyone.
  
 As it turns out, my amp is limited to SE only. So unfortunately, I won't be able to avail the bells and whistles of balanced.
  
 OT question: do cables really make a huge difference in SQ? I got a cheap monoprice RCA cable, but would like to upgrade if it makes a major difference.
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## sheldaze

ahnafakeef said:


> Thanks for the responses, everyone.
> 
> As it turns out, my amp is limited to SE only. So unfortunately, I won't be able to avail the bells and whistles of balanced.
> 
> ...


 
 Really cheap cables - yes.
 Monoprice is plenty of goodness


----------



## ahnafakeef

sheldaze said:


> Really cheap cables - yes.
> Monoprice is plenty of goodness


 
  
 Alright. I'll stick to these cables for now then. Thank you.


----------



## tonykaz

Mr. CrazyChile and Mr. AtomicBob,
  
 I might be getting-it about balanced and SE. 
  
 I've always had problems with little RCA connectors, even high quality RCAs.  The Pro level connectors are far more robust and allow cable options.  
  
 I suppose RCAs have their place in a Consumer products that never ( or rarely ) get un-plugged and are price driven low-end devices. 
  
 Any "active" hobbyist would value the reliable nature of connectors that "work" every time, as Pro level Balanced devices are designed to do.
  
 I'd also 'assume' ( a dangerous thing ) that a product featuring Balanced Connectivity would feature higher levels of circuit 'qualities' since it's end purchaser would be thought to be a more demanding user.
  
 As to Schiit Bashing that Someone referred to,   I don't understand it!  Schiit is my "Company of the Year" ,  Sennheiser is my "Transducer Company of the last Decade"  and the Multibit DACs are my "Product of the Year" 
  
 Other Outfits have worthy products :  JDS, Garage1217, Cavalli, Bottlehead,  MSB,  Genelec, Apple, Shure, Etymotic, Astel & Kern. plus a few more.  
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## ETanner

.


----------



## ETanner

tonykaz said:


> As to Schiit Bashing that Someone referred to,   I don't understand it!  Schiit is my "Company of the Year" ,  Sennheiser is my "Transducer Company of the last Decade"  and the Multibit DACs are my "Product of the



The rediscovery of headphone audio and Schiit's quality/economy ratio at the end of 2015 gives this guy hope for 2016.


----------



## huberd

I have the Gungnir and a friend brought over a Meridian Explorer 2 to compare. The Meridian at less than half the price sounds much much better. It is smoother with a larger sound stage with better instrument placement and smooth as silk. The Gungnir is not very good.


----------



## robm321

Meridian makes good DACs.


----------



## US Blues

tonykaz said:


> In the headphone world : Balanced is some sort of Sacred Cow.
> 
> Tony in Michigan


 
 Tony- the best hamburgers come from Sacred Cows.


----------



## AudioBear

huberd said:


> I have the Gungnir and a friend brought over a Meridian Explorer 2 to compare. The Meridian at less than half the price sounds much much better. It is smoother with a larger sound stage with better instrument placement and smooth as silk. The Gungnir is not very good.


 

 Huber,
  
 It's kind of silly to come on a Gumby thread and make a statement like that about what is a very high quality good sounding (to most) and well-built DAC at a bargain price.  You are free to say you don't like it or that you like the Meridian much more if that's what you're hearing.  That's why there are a zillion DACs out there which probably all sound slightly different and all have their fans.
  
 To make a flat statement it isn't very good without stating your criteria or evidence is just trolling for flames.  
  
 FWIW, I thought the Meridian Explorer 2 sounded good like all Meridian products, but to my taste it didn't come close to Gumby (based on my audio memory--not an A-B comparison).


----------



## Maconi

audiobear said:


> huberd said:
> 
> 
> > I have the Gungnir and a friend brought over a Meridian Explorer 2 to compare. The Meridian at less than half the price sounds much much better. It is smoother with a larger sound stage with better instrument placement and smooth as silk. The Gungnir is not very good.
> ...


 
  
 He said Gungnir (probably meaning the D-S version), not GuMBy (which is short for Gungnir MultiBit as far as I know). So you could both be right (Meridian might sound better than the D-S but not the MB).


----------



## huberd

You have the right to your opinion and so do I. The Gungnir is a great DAC but it's just not up the the sound quality of the Meridian Explorer 2. Sorry if you don't agree but I have both and listen to the Meridian (DAC portion only). I am just making a statement that is what I found and may help other. No need to call me silly I only state the truth. No need to discredit others because of your own views.


----------



## AudioBear

huberd said:


> You have the right to your opinion and so do I. The Gungnir is a great DAC but it's just not up the the sound quality of the Meridian Explorer 2. Sorry if you don't agree but I have both and listen to the Meridian (DAC portion only). I am just making a statement that is what I found and may help other. No need to call me silly I only state the truth. No need to discredit others because of your own views.


 
 hubert:
  
 Macon is correct, you said Gungnir but didn't specify if it's DS or MB.  I assumed you meant the newer MB Gungnir.  You and I might agree about the original Gungnir but I've never heard it. Then too I never heard anyone else say it was "not very good" but you're entitled to your opinion for sure.  Which Gungnir did you mean?
  
 I would point out that if your meant the new Multi-Bit model you are going to get a lively argument here.  And while we are on the topic who is discrediting who, you would be discrediting the almost unanimous positive opinions found here and by external reviewers none of whom found Gumby "not very good."  Some have preferred other gear that they thought better but none of them said 'not very good."
  
 You have not responded to my suggestion that you state your criteria and explain what is not very good.  It might be useful to know the source material and the other associated components.  It may be that you found a niche where the Meridian just buries the Gungnir. We'd all like to know the specifics if for no other reason than to avoid the bad combination.
  
 It just isn't useful to come on the thread and say Gungnir sounds like, well, Schiit.


----------



## KLJTech

I preferred the DS Gungnir (Gen 2 USB) to the far more expensive Bryston BDA-1 in a system with a Parasound A21 amp driving Magnepan 1.7's and a Velodyne DD10 sub. Does that mean that the Bryston isn't very good?...well, no it doesn't, simply that I prefer the Gungnir DAC over the Bryston. Opinions will vary though I would be careful about making bold statements like "component A, B or C isn't very good."


----------



## mikoss

huberd said:


> ... I am just making a statement that is what I found and may help other. No need to call me silly I only state the truth. No need to discredit others because of your own views.


 
 It isn't a truth, it's your impression and view, much like you've pointed out about others having their own views 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also, FWIW, I much prefer the HD-650's vs the HE-400's, and find the HD-700's intolerable. So I appreciate your impressions, but we seem to favour different presentations. The only DAC I'd personally consider vs MB Gungnir would be Yggdrasil. If you're talking Meridian vs Gungnir, I'd personally just recommend MB Gungnir over both.


----------



## Dalgas

dalgas said:


> Well - I could not forget the sweet TDA1543 sound.
> 
> So I bought a ready-made DIY DAC based on 8 TDA1543 chips, with reclocking and NOS (non oversampling). The thing ONLY accept 16/44 but - WOW - it blew the Gumby out of the water! Vokals in particular are much more natural and the bass (always been the weak point of the Gungnir) is more punchy!
> 
> The Gumby still presents more details and a bigger stereoimage - but has more digital glare than the DIY NOS. Unbelievable - since I find the Gumby very strong here.


 
 I stand corrected.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 After using the DIY DAC for a week the Gumby went back into my system yesterday. I have made it a habbit to go back a step after some time and boy am I glad I did.
  
 Now it is clear to my that the NOS is easy on the ears ONLY because it ommits a lot of details. The Gumby serves up so many details that your brain (and the rest of your system) is challenged. I now suspect that my digital source (old phillips cd player) is no where good enough to show the full potential of the Gumby.
  
 I still like this DIY DAC a lot - but a DAC should not leave out that much information.
  
 But Again the Gumby is worldclass in putting it all out there. Read a comment a while back: "Sometimes I think there are strangers in my house but it turns out to be new information in the music that I have never noticed before....."


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Cheers Dalgas for the follow-up and very useful description of what changed and why. Yes, I've certainly experienced gear that sounded 'worse' than something I compared it to at first, yet later the new gear sounded much 'better'. Part of what keeps this hobby interesting


----------



## atomicbob

dalgas said:


> I stand corrected.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 New Sound Syndrome(TM)  NSS, we all experience it. Glad to see that you are diligent in your listening to determine if NSS was a contributing factor to your impressions. On live recordings there are stage sounds with people moving about, usually not audible clearly with other DACs. Even the Bifrost MB presents these clearly enough to warrant headphone removal while looking about to see if anyone is nearby. Very spooky until one acclimates to the occurrence by backing up on the track an listening a second time.


----------



## bigro

atomicbob said:


> New Sound Syndrome(TM)  NSS, we all experience it. Glad to see that you are diligent in your listening to determine if NSS was a contributing factor to your impressions. On live recordings there are stage sounds with people moving about, usually not audible clearly with other DACs. Even the Bifrost MB presents these clearly enough to warrant headphone removal while looking about to see if anyone is nearby. Very spooky until one acclimates to the occurrence by backing up on the track an listening a second time.


 
  
 Atomic Bob did you just coin and trademark the Term New Sound Syndrome (NSS)? It's Perfect. Mike Moffat Had a post a while back which was about the comparisons between audio gear. The gist of it was that one really has to spend some time with each setup to really get a good grasp of its capabilities and it's shortcomings.
  
 I am running into a dilemma with my music collection. most of it is flac ripped from cd's that I have had for some time. Albums I have listened to for years on lesser systems all of a sudden don't sound very good through a Bimby. However their are many albums that I am blown away by, and I mean knocked off the chair on my ass blown away. Because the detail I hear in some tracks I did not know existed. So I would venture to say that the MB Dacs present a level of detail which not only can bring out the yummy goodness that is generally lost in a track but can unmask the rotten egg that is sub par mastering that also masked by DACS that may not present the same level of detail. I suspect that the the Higher MB lines like the Gungnir MB and The Yggy may make this more apparent.


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## Dalgas

NSS - Yep that sounds about right!
  
 And atomicbob is right - It happens quite often. So be on your guard!


----------



## sheldaze

mikoss said:


> It isn't a truth, it's your impression and view, much like you've pointed out about others having their own views
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I did the Meridian versus Gungnir experiment a while back - only it was Meridian Director versus Gungnir Multibit. This was the _only _time I have ever heard a DAC that 100% outclassed my previous DAC - that is the Gungnir Multibit did _everything _better than the Meridian Director. Up to that point, I had been making sacrifices. I had been keeping a Bifrost Uber connected to my headphones and Meridian Director connected to my speakers.
  
 I eventually upgraded my Bifrost Uber to Bifrost Multibit, and it too was outclassed by _everything _the Gungnir Multibit did. In summary, Gungnir Multibit, per my DAC upgrade history, replaced three DACs:
  

Arcam irDAC (which I have read it similar to Gungnir Delta-Sigma)
Meridian Director
Schiit Bifrost Multibit
  
 And those are the only three DACs, which I no longer have, and I miss. But each, in a way, was a subset or a compromise of the qualities of the Gungnir Multibit.
  
 ::
  
 Just wanted to say, I could see how someone would like certain attributes of a Meridian DAC over certain attributes of a Delta-Sigma Schiit DAC. I hope this helps, and doesn't add any fuel.


----------



## Vanquisher

sheldaze said:


> I did the Meridian versus Gungnir experiment a while back - only it was Meridian Director versus Gungnir Multibit. This was the _only _time I have ever heard a DAC that 100% outclassed my previous DAC - that is the Gungnir Multibit did _everything _better than the Meridian Director. Up to that point, I had been making sacrifices. I had been keeping a Bifrost Uber connected to my headphones and Meridian Director connected to my speakers.
> 
> I eventually upgraded my Bifrost Uber to Bifrost Multibit, and it too was outclassed by _everything _the Gungnir Multibit did. In summary, Gungnir Multibit, per my DAC upgrade history, replaced three DACs:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd say +1 for the irDAC info here. Can echo the same feedback. GMB was much better. Unfortunately for my wallet I heard a Yggy though LOL. It really is that much better than GMB imo, although GMB in the price range is probably one of the tops. Only thing in the price range I heard I liked more than GMB was the Metrum Acoustics Musette. Which is why I have that arriving Monday .


----------



## Dalgas

My presentiment was right!
  
 Today I heard my Gumby with a high-class USB-SPDIF converter - the Stello U3. The Stello (with an outboard powersource) was far surperior to the "onboard" USB gen 2 of the Gumby. The increment in sound quality surpasses that of upgrading from DS to multibit. You just have to hear it to believe it!
  
 The rest of the system (belonging to a friend of mine) was Belles 350a reference poweramp (man! that is a killer-amp), Linn preamp, homebuild floorspeakers (he has done so for 10+ years). Source was a laptop feeding the Gumby through the Stello U3.
  
 The only time he has heard anything this good, was when he had a $ 6.000 MSB DSD dac on loan. Oh yes he was sad to let me - ehm - my Gumby go.
  
 I had also brought the tda 1543 NOS DAC along. But it did not benefit much from the Stello and was left far behind.....but (as was my previous experience) in fact not that far behind the USB gen 2 - the loss in detail aside.


----------



## artur9

dalgas said:


> The rest of the system (belonging to a friend of mine) was Belles 350a reference poweramp (man! that is a killer-amp),


 
 I have a Belles HotRod (FS) and Belles is some nice stuff!


----------



## Starchild1

dalgas said:


> Today I heard my Gumby with a high-class USB-SPDIF converter - the Stello U3. The Stello (with an outboard powersource) was far surperior to the "onboard" USB gen 2 of the Gumby. The increment in sound quality surpasses that of upgrading from DS to multibit. You just have to hear it to believe it!


 
 I use a usb to spdif converter as well; a Bryston Buc-1.  I'm very pleased with it though I must confess that I bought the Bryston before I bought the Gumby.  They work extremely well together.


----------



## schneller

So what would be the best option for someone who can output using SE only RCA to a NAIM SuperNait2?
  
  
 Option 1: BMB ($600) fed by a Audiophilleo 1 MkII SE ($600) = $1200
 Option 2: Chord 2Qute = $1800
 Option 3: GMB ($1250) fed by a Audiophilleo 1 MkII SE ($600) = $1850
 Option 4: Yiggy = $2100


----------



## sheldaze

schneller said:


> So what would be the best option for someone who can output using SE only RCA to a NAIM SuperNait2?
> 
> 
> Option 1: BMB ($600) fed by a Audiophilleo 1 MkII SE ($600) = $1200
> ...


 
 I assume you're not using this for your headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 What kind of speakers do you have or plan to use? When I mentioned I could easily hear the differences between the Schiit DACs (Bifrost Multibit, Gungnir Multibit, and Yggdrasil) it was feeding into B&W Nautilus speakers, which are pretty high end and quite demanding of a good source. I found the difference to be less discernible via headphones.
  
 EDIT: You could also host a headphone party! We've got three of your 4 options covered


----------



## Starcruncher

Fixed to proper quote reply below


----------



## Starcruncher

atomicbob said:


> New Sound Syndrome(TM)  NSS, we all experience it. Glad to see that you are diligent in your listening to determine if NSS was a contributing factor to your impressions. On live recordings there are stage sounds with people moving about, usually not audible clearly with other DACs. Even the Bifrost MB presents these clearly enough to warrant headphone removal while looking about to see if anyone is nearby. Very spooky until one acclimates to the occurrence by backing up on the track an listening a second time.




The first time I listened to The Beatles' "Revolution 9" with my first (and only) setup - Modi 2, Vali, HD600 - it scared me like the best psychological horror films. Definitely hearing things for the first time and with striking detail. I kept looking over my shoulder. Spooky indeed. I am interested in GuMBy, but I'm afraid I might be frightened to death! BTW, does anyone else like this track for a detail test? They put a lot of surprises in there


----------



## schneller

Dynaudio Focus 260

When is the next meetup?


----------



## sheldaze

schneller said:


> Dynaudio Focus 260
> 
> When is the next meetup?


 
 Saturday, February 27
  
 I'll have to read up on your speakers. I have heard only good things about the company. More specific though, I was trying to say it makes sense to match components in the same range. For me, Yggdrasil and Ragnarok were actually a step down in price (not that price is equal to quality, but generally so) from what I was using. And the "statement" setup (from the same company I was using, single-ended) ballooned to well over $7,000. After trying to go with Bifrost, based on my concerns for SE versus balanced (and already owning the Bifrost, so why not use it), I started to feel kinda stupid to play _cheap_ - just get the statement products, and be done. So I did, and I'm happy.
  
 I'm guessing your system is very HiFi - and it will be instantly obvious the difference going from a Bimby to a Gumby, and a Gumby to a Yggdrasil (single-ended or otherwise). My quick summary:
  

Bimby - very nice, small and intimate
Gumby - dynamics, where things that can get bigger DO!
Yggdrasil - music is not supposed to be able to sound the way it does through this DAC. It truly captures your attention, and sends the sound into your synapses in a way sound should not be able to do. If music could be considered a weapon, this would be the first salvo.
  
 I still feel a little silly watching the Today show through a Yggdrasil, but it sounds really good when I get back to playing music


----------



## US Blues

schneller said:


> So what would be the best option for someone who can output using SE only RCA to a NAIM SuperNait2?
> 
> 
> Option 1: BMB ($600) fed by a Audiophilleo 1 MkII SE ($600) = $1200
> ...


 

 Iggy. With your speaker set-up, and the level of the gear you are using, go right to the top of the pile. Then you can just sit back and enjoy the *music.*


----------



## Brubacca

I just ordered a Gumby. I hope I did myself right. Hopefully it will be an improvement on my UnitiQute DAC and sound good with my Rogue Cronus. 

Just couldn't justify IGGY. 

I like drums to sound like drums and to find my toe tapping to the music.


----------



## AudioBear

I love my Gumby, hope you will too.


----------



## earnmyturns

dalgas said:


> \Now it is clear to my that the NOS is easy on the ears ONLY because it ommits a lot of details. The Gumby serves up so many details that your brain (and the rest of your system) is challenged.


 
 Just out of curiosity: how often do you listen live to the music (genre, artist) that you used for those tests? I listen to a lot of live jazz and some classical, and I find the multibit detail and stage (even in the lower cost Bifrost MB) closer to the live experience than the "smoother," edges-filed-off renderings of, for example, the DAC in the Naim UnitiQute I used to own.


----------



## jole68

Dear members if anyone experienced similar problem, and has solution for that, please let me know. I wrote to Jason and waiting for answer but this is very long list of gungnir owners so let me try.
 I have crackling on speakers, My source is *Marantz UD5007 *(for DVDA and SACD) connected via hdmi to *Kanex pro de-embeder* ( keep hires output 2.0 stereo) connected via coax to *gungnir* and finaly *naim nait 5i-2* amp.
 Cracks are present even when i press pause on Marantz and there is no music -just silence and crack on 30-40 seconds are repeated. sometimes I hear 2 in second. I changed all cables that i have....still present.
  
 With Arcam rdac i didnt have this problem. I like gungnir sound and I would like to keep it that's why i am writing this.....
 PS: whatever, solution or some methods to try is welcome.
 Thanks in advance


----------



## sheldaze

jole68 said:


> Dear members if anyone experienced similar problem, and has solution for that, please let me know. I wrote to Jason and waiting for answer but this is very long list of gungnir owners so let me try.
> I have crackling on speakers, My source is *Marantz UD5007 *(for DVDA and SACD) connected via hdmi to *Kanex pro de-embeder* ( keep hires output 2.0 stereo) connected via coax to *gungnir* and finaly *naim nait 5i-2* amp.
> Cracks are present even when i press pause on Marantz and there is no music -just silence and crack on 30-40 seconds are repeated. sometimes I hear 2 in second. I changed all cables that i have....still present.
> 
> ...


 
 It probably will not matter, due to the holiday. But Jason is not the best person to contact at Schiit. Here is what he posts at the bottom of each of his thread postings:


> Hey all, I'd really love to answer PMs, but I really can't guarantee any response time anymore. If you have questions, it's best to talk to Nick at tech@schiit.com (for tech stuff) or to Laura or Amy at orders@schiit.com (for, well, like, orders.)


 
 I do not have an answer for your question - I am however concerned with all the pass-thru you have between the source Marantz and the DAC. I have used an Oppo source fed into both a Schiit Gungnir and Arcam irDAC, as shown below:
  

Oppo > Toslink > irDAC
Oppo > COAX > Gungnir
  
 I had no issues with the connections. But I could also (today) run as follows:
  

Oppo > HDMI > TV > Toslink > Yggdrasil (replaced Gungnir in my setup today)
  
 But that would be kind of a weird way to pass the audio, and I would expect there to be degradation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Instead, when I want to feed something from the Oppo that I do not want my Schiit DAC to process, I just pass it directly to the analog portion of the system:
  

Oppo > HDMI > TV (video)
Oppo > Ragnarok (audio for BluRay and SACD)
Oppo > COAX > Yggdrasil > Ragnarok (audio for CD)
  
 I could be way off base though, not understanding what you're trying to do?


----------



## jole68

[color=#000000]sheldaze first thanks on respond - why i use de-embeder i will explain in short.[/color]
Marantz as output has rca and hdmi only. Hdmi is only way to output DVDA 24/96/192 or 24/88 that is down converted onboard in the case from sacd. (rca output is 16/44).
As dac isnt equiped with hdmi input only way to keep signal is de-embeder (i read, try and it works) i go from marantz in it via hdmi than from it with coax to Gungnir.
  
With rdac everything was ok without this crackling that sounds like electrical discharge or scratched vinyl. I have to try coax output from TV receiver.....
Once again only in my set up what was changed is dac. rdac gone gungnir arrived. I suppose I should look in marantz-kanex first as a potential source of problem. Noway to check how marantz and gungnir likes each other (without deembeder) because no way to connect them.
Thats it.
Again appreciation for respond.


----------



## Brubacca

Naim amps are very sensitive to grounding. They employ a star topology where the Source is expected to be grounded and the Amps are not. The arcam uses a wall power supply with no ground I believe. The Kanex probably has a wall power supply too. 

The big difference you have between the Gungnir and IrDac is that the Gungnir is grounded and has a real power supply built in. Also the Gungnir reportedly is more resolving than the IrDAC. It could be showing a problem that has been there all the time. It could be a new interaction between the components. 

You could have created a ground loop causing this. Can you try eliminating the Kanex just to test the sound?


----------



## bigro

Have you tried using the Gungnir with a Different Known good source that natively outputs Coax? If this works then its probably not the Gungnir, your amp or Speakers. Time to start looking Upstream of the Gungnir.
  
  I just Looked at the Marantz. I guess they are fully on the HDMI Bandwagon. That Really stinks. You would think I Brand Like Marantz would give you at least a Coax out


----------



## jole68

Brubacca I understood....I can try only analog out on Marantz to Naim but it will be without gungnir.
Bigro on Naim cd is also only analog outputs din and rca.
Hypothetically: at least I will bring some coax source from friends. If it is OK than probably to try with Kanex and without again. if it is Kanex or Marantz what is reason and what could be solution.


----------



## Brubacca

jole68 said:


> Brubacca I understood....I can try only analog out on Marantz to Naim but it will be without gungnir.
> Bigro on Naim cd is also only analog outputs din and rca.
> Hypothetically: at least I will bring some coax source from friends. If it is OK than probably to try with Kanex and without again. if it is Kanex or Marantz what is reason and what could be solution.




That is a shame, I went through groundung hell with my Naim only to find out it was my cheap turntable. I got a different Turntable and problem solved. You may have to make a hard decision. You may have to either send the Gungnir back or get a different source. I love my Oppo 103. 

Good luck and I hope you find a suitable resolution. 

In another week I'll have my Gungnir in my system with a Naim Unitiqute (i don't use the amp). I'll let you know if I develop any issues.


----------



## jole68

Brubacca thanks on your good willing....With new source I can try tomorrow and try it with and without kanex. But again if we conclude what we presume how to eliminate that ground loop -is it possible? i will try to find another PS for kanex this is pretty ugly and serve for 50/60hz and for 100/240v if that is worth. New universal player is big investment for me.


----------



## Starchild1

Mark Waldrep of Real HD-Audio has used that unit and had a similar issue.  He resolved it by changing the source to an Oppo 95.  You can read his comments below.
  
 http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=2287
  
 I hope that's helpful.


----------



## bigro

When


jole68 said:


> Dear members if anyone experienced similar problem, and has solution for that, please let me know. I wrote to Jason and waiting for answer but this is very long list of gungnir owners so let me try.
> I have crackling on speakers, My source is *Marantz UD5007 *(for DVDA and SACD) connected via hdmi to *Kanex pro de-embeder* ( keep hires output 2.0 stereo) connected via coax to *gungnir* and finaly *naim nait 5i-2* amp.
> Cracks are present even when i press pause on Marantz and there is no music -just silence and crack on 30-40 seconds are repeated. sometimes I hear 2 in second. I changed all cables that i have....still present.
> 
> ...


 
 WHen you say a "Crack on 30- 40 seconds" is this just like a random popping noise or is it static?  Ground loop usually produces a droning hum.


----------



## jole68

Random...it was on begining in that interval I could not say it is always.. Some were after minute than two cracks in one second. It sounds like electric charging but last part of second. Starchild1 thanks. Ufff in this moment don't have that option to change Marantz.


----------



## bigro

Cracks do not seem to be a ground loop. If you leave everything as is and power off the Kanex does the issue still happen? Also Have you tried the Optical output of the Kanex to the Optical Input of the Gungnir?


----------



## jole68

Bigro no I don't both. I will ( younger son sleeps...I mention that cause I don't want that u have wrong impression - that Iv asked for help and after I am lazy). Good way to check Kanex in total although optical is as I remember limited more than coax for signal but I don't care if works so. Very soon I will check and post here.


----------



## bigro

jole68 said:


> Bigro no I don't both. I will ( younger son sleeps...I mention that cause I don't want that u have wrong impression - that Iv asked for help and after I am lazy). Good way to check Kanex in total although optical is as I remember limited more than coax for signal but I don't care if works so. Very soon I will check and post here.


 
  We all have lives to live. No worries here get to it when you can. Optical can be limited but the Kanex website says it will output 24/192 and the Gungnir page says it will accept 24/192 on all inputs. So in this Instance It might bea moot point.
  
 My thinking is even If with optical you get at least 16/44.1 and no weird issues then it's a good band aid until you can verify the coax input on the Gungnir is ok.  If it is 24/192 Then you can figure out if you like the optical enough to stick with the Marantz or decide to Give it the boot a year from now.


----------



## jole68

I found problem Kanexpro de-embeder.Brubacca was right. Optical out from TV and coax from TV receiver both works without crackling. For Marantz I don't know I can't connect it to dac without kanex.
I will check with professionals could we detect what exactly in Kanex could create problems. Charger or who knows.... bigro: If unfortunately DE embedding and gungir are not friends in term of data transfer misunderstanding than I don't need Marantz because I can't connect it to dac, even that I can for 16/44 I have naim cd player. Regards to all and one more time thanks.


----------



## b14cx0ut

Proud new owner of a Gumby. 
  
 Oh. Freakin. My.
  
 Loved my Uberfrost/Lyr stack. Tried Bimby. Meh.
  
 Waiting on a Liquid Carbon, so I'm currently running Gumby via RCA into JDS Element amp portion into FosDrop TH-X00. 
  
 24/48 Moving Pictures by Rush is giving me chills. 
  
 Gumby has only been alive for 6 hours.
  
 Amazing stuff.
  
 *Edit*
  
 Now listening to everything I can that was recorded at Sound City. Good lord.


----------



## disastermouse

b14cx0ut said:


> Proud new owner of a Gumby.
> 
> Oh. Freakin. My.
> 
> ...


 

 Isn't it amazing when something new makes you re-discover your music? It's the best part of this hobby, really. Tidal is pushing through stuff that I had on Spotify and I'm finding details that weren't there in Spotify. Little things like very deeply buried background percussion 'ticks' and, hell, sometimes instruments that I didn't even know were in the mix. I'm not even doing close listening - just listening in the background while I write (First novel - good lord, this is hard work!).


----------



## AudioBear

b14cx0ut said:


> Proud new owner of a Gumby.
> 
> Oh. Freakin. My.
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome to the Gumby Liquid Carbon club.  They are truly amazing together.  Enjoy!


----------



## sheldaze

b14cx0ut said:


> Proud new owner of a Gumby.
> 
> Oh. Freakin. My.
> 
> ...


 
 I had a similar setup when I first heard my Gumby, which was fed into The Element and Denon AH-D2000 headphones.
 I have since acquired a Liquid Carbon and TH-X00 headphones, and - well, I still spin, so a disc of Moving Pictures. I guess I have some listening to do! Enjoy!
  
 ::
  
 And...make sure you burn-in your Liquid Carbon headphone-less or balanced.


----------



## earnmyturns

brubacca said:


> In another week I'll have my Gungnir in my system with a Naim Unitiqute (i don't use the amp). I'll let you know if I develop any issues.


 
 I've used Bifrost>UnitiQute with no issues. -- F


----------



## jole68

I am happy to inform that my problem with crackling is solved. In sea of option I forget that my deembedder has Chinese charger for Us market with cheap plastic as plug end.... after many hours it's come to my mind and went to buy Legrand additional part/connector and voila everything was OK. Who could presume this.
Now I am ready to enjoy in gungnir finally!!!!!. Probably there are members that use this hdmi "things" with BDP and dacs so if ever meet problem like mine they will know reason.
Regard to gungnir society and particular to people that try to help me.


----------



## bigro

jole68 said:


> I am happy to inform that my problem with crackling is solved. In sea of option I forget that my deembedder has Chinese charger for Us market with cheap plastic as plug end.... after many hours it's come to my mind and went to buy Legrand additional part/connector and voila everything was OK. Who could presume this.
> Now I am ready to enjoy in gungnir finally!!!!!. Probably there are members that use this hdmi "things" with BDP and dacs so if ever meet problem like mine they will know reason.
> Regard to gungnir society and particular to people that try to help me.


 

 Glad to hear you have it Resolved. Thanks for the update


----------



## gwitzel

gwitzel said:


> I would like to share some experiences I had in the last two weeks with the Schiit Gungnir Multibit. Anybody who read my posts here on Head-Fi has probably realized by now that I am a huge fan of the Gumby since my first exposure to it at the Schiit-Show*. In the meantime I have substantiated my initial impression.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Quote:


gwitzel said:


> I just would like to follow up on my short exchange with earnmyturns and jfoxvol about Audirvana settings and bit-perfect streaming to Gumby. jfoxvol kindly shared the necessary Audirvana settings with me, and now I indeed cannot hear any difference anymore with changing the filter parameters, as it should be the case. I am convinced now that while using integer mode 1 improved sound for me significantly, my imagination was playing tricks on me when I thought I improve things by changing the filter parameters (I never used any up-sampling that makes use of the filter).
> 
> However, this does not change my point:
> If Audirvana is setup correctly, Audirvana + Wyrd + USB2 receiver can replace the Accuphase CD-drive that we used in our tests.
> ...


 
  
  


zonto said:


> Might be beneficial to post the settings in the thread so others can implement if they have the same issue.


 
  
 I am very sorry that I have not responded to the request above for so long. It's Christmas (in Germany 12/26 is still a holiday), so finally I find enough time.
  
 The settings that jfoxvol kindly shared are as follows:
  


Spoiler: Audirvana settings



I try to only list the settings relevant to me:  
 General
 Misc.:  check Prevent screen from going to sleep
  
 Audio System
 Native DSD Capability: Automatic Detection
 DSD to PCM Algorithm: 64bit Multistage
 with boost of: +6dB
 Low level playback options: check all three boxes, use Integer Mode 1
 Max sample rate limit: No Limit
 Spl rate switching latency: None
 Limit max bit depth and Mute during sample rate change unchecked
  
 Audio Filters
 Forced Upsampling: None
 [size=1em]Audio Signal Polarity: invert globally unchecked, invert tracks with comment checked[/size]
  
 Audio Volume
 Volume control type: DAC only
  
 Audio Units:
 nothing checked
  
 SysOptimizer:
 everything checked and priority: Extreme


  
 I think the setting in Audirvana that caused my problem was indeed related to the oversampling option. I used Forced Upsampling: Custom, and then mapped each sampling rate onto itself except for 192 kHz which I down-sampled to 96 kHz. I assumed that this provides bit-perfect streaming, but it looks (or sounds) like only Forced Upsampling: None provides the best results.
  
 I don't know if it makes sense that Audirvana sounds different with the above custom settings. I don't know enough about Audirvana or computer audio (I am as I realize still a noobie, although I play around with these things for more than a year now), and I am a bit insecure now if the differences between different settings are real or just happening in my mind. For my earlier tests I might have done additional settings wrong, hard to trace now.
  
 However, I am sure about the fact the the Gumby fed by Audirvana and Wyrd with bit-perfect settings sounds unbelievably great. With more time spent with my dad's Accuphase setup over Christmas I can clearly say that the Gumby fed from my Macbook is significantly more transparent and detailed than the Accuphase drive. It is very smooth and natural at the same time, I just love it.
  
 I also prematurely made a statement about the slightly artificial sound of high-res files. With the right settings this is not the case anymore. Dvorak's New Wold symphony with the LSO and Sir Colin Davis is breathtakingly impressive, and everything sounds smooth and natural (especially the brass instruments).
  
 I also listened to Gumby + Earmax Pro + HD 800 and HD 650. All really excellent!
  
 I feel a question growing back in my head: how would the Yggy sound. I guess I'll start saving up... and then there will be loudspeaker amps in 2016... help!


----------



## gwitzel

Also: happy holidays to everybody! Thank you very much for all the useful information and support here. Without this I would not have converged so quickly. I even could convince my dad of computer audio. He is a rather analogue person, but thanks to our experience with the Gungnir we are now in a family-wide project of building up a music archive and server.


----------



## ahnafakeef

Bitfrost Multibit vs Gungnir D-S - which is better?


----------



## US Blues

ahnafakeef said:


> Bitfrost Multibit vs Gungnir D-S - which is better?


 

 I have a Gungnir D-S in my second system, with Yggy in my main system. I was doing some extensive listening last night to my second system, and I can hear the D-S signature of the Gungnir, and am now planning to upgrade it when the time is right. My point being- my ears tell me the multiunit technology, at whatever level of implementation we can afford, is a better listening solution than a D-S implementation.


----------



## sheldaze

ahnafakeef said:


> Bitfrost Multibit vs Gungnir D-S - which is better?


 
 They would do _different_ things well. It's not like a pure upgrade from Bifrost Multibit to Gungnir Multibit. From my listening, Bifrost to Gungnir is more about dynamics and the size of the musical image. And Delta-Sigma to Multibit is more about making the music sound natural, and more real.
  
 If you think at any time in the future, you may want to upgrade a Gungnir to Multibit, or you have need for balanced outputs, get the Gungnir. Though I suppose it would be difficult to send it back to the states for the upgrade? Otherwise, you'll probably be plenty happy with the Multbit sound of the single-ended Bifrost.


----------



## earnmyturns

gwitzel said:


> However, I am sure about the fact the the Gumby fed by Audirvana and Wyrd with bit-perfect settings sounds unbelievably great. With more time spent with my dad's Accuphase setup over Christmas I can clearly say that the Gumby fed from my Macbook is significantly more transparent and detailed than the Accuphase drive. It is very smooth and natural at the same time, I just love it.


 
 Thank you for the detailed reports, very informative. I'm contemplating putting a multibit DAC on my main speaker system, which is currently Bel Canto C7R > KEF Reference 1. I like it a lot, a solid improvement on my earlier Naim Unitiqute > KEF LS50, but there's a certain detail and depth that I hear sometimes on my headphone setup Bifrost Multibit > Asgard 2 > MrSpeaker Alpha Prime that I'd like to bring to the speaker system. I'll first do the obvious experiment of bypassing the Bel Canto internal DAC with the Bifrost, but I'm wondering whether a balanced setup consisting of a Gungnir Multibit and some balanced input amp (such as the Bel Canto REF500S, or the hinted at new goodies from Schiit) might be worth considering, or balanced does not have much to offer over single-ended for speaker systems with short cables between DAC and amp. Did you try single-ended connections in your tests?


----------



## cishida

Many of the tracks on "Tormé" (1958 studio album) are magical through the Gungnir MB.


----------



## gwitzel

earnmyturns said:


> Thank you for the detailed reports, very informative. I'm contemplating putting a multibit DAC on my main speaker system, which is currently Bel Canto C7R > KEF Reference 1. I like it a lot, a solid improvement on my earlier Naim Unitiqute > KEF LS50, but there's a certain detail and depth that I hear sometimes on my headphone setup Bifrost Multibit > Asgard 2 > MrSpeaker Alpha Prime that I'd like to bring to the speaker system. I'll first do the obvious experiment of bypassing the Bel Canto internal DAC with the Bifrost, but I'm wondering whether a balanced setup consisting of a Gungnir Multibit and some balanced input amp (such as the Bel Canto REF500S, or the hinted at new goodies from Schiit) might be worth considering, or balanced does not have much to offer over single-ended for speaker systems with short cables between DAC and amp. Did you try single-ended connections in your tests?


 
  
 I don't think I can answer your question generally for all systems. 
 For the fully balanced Accuphase system here the short answer is: yes, in my opinion the balanced output of Gumby is significantly better than the single-ended output. 
  
  
My long answer (I am sorry, this is really a long one):
  
 I took my time to do some more tests in order to be able to answer your question. I spend very enjoyable 8 hours with my dad yesterday. We listened to different setups until 3:30 am. In the following I try to describe precisely what we did and what we listened to. I had the experience for several times now that I did valid tests but jumped to premature conclusions because I didn't know enough about some technical aspects. I will also provide my opinion, but in this way I hope this post might be useful independent of my conclusions.
  
 We used in our tests:
  
 Accuphase A-100 power amps
 Accuphase C-290 pre-amp with phono amp
 Accuphase DP-75V CD player and DAC
 Brocksieper Arabeske loudspeakers
 Schiit Gumby
 Schiit Wyrd
 Transrotor ZET 3 turntable with SME arm and Accuphase magnet system
 Mac Mini late 2014 + Yosemite
 Audirvana + (bit-perfect settings)
 RME Fireface UC
 Reaper
 Freecom Firewire harddrive
 Brocksieper Earmax Pro
 HD650 + HD800
  
  
 We started with a set of questions:
  
 Can we produce digitalizations of vinyl records with our RME music interface that are better than the available CDs when played via Gumby?
 Does the sampling rate matter when making the digital copy?
 Is there a difference when playing a good digitalization (our own one or a good CD) via Gumby single-ended vs. balanced?
 How does Mac + Gumby compare to the Accuphase drive? (I basically answered that already in my earlier post. But listening means to integrate over time and many recordings)?
 Are there differences between the single-ended and the balanced outputs of the Accuphase drive? (As a baseline test and in order to determine if differences arise from the preamp circuitry)?
  
  
 We connected the tape record output of the C-290 with an RCA to jack adapter to the RME music interface. We used our turntable and recorded the signal coming from the phono amp module inside the C-290 with Reaper (a semi professional recording software, a little bit better than Audacity, not very expensive). We use a good record of which we have a CD version which is ok, nothing breathtaking, pretty standard. We recoded 4 tracks in 44.1, 96, and 192 kHz each. The comparison resulted in a number of conclusions:
  
 1) All our digitalizations were better than the CD... by far.
 2) In our opinion the differences between the sampling rates were very evident. How? The sound was more 'analogue' for the higher sampling rate, 192kHz significantly smoother and with better spatial presentation than even 96kHz. If this is due to fundamental reasons (as denied by many), or because of the A/D converter implementation in the music interface, I don't know and I don't care.
 3) Our own 192 kHz digitalization played trough the Gumby (balanced) is very close to the original analogue. This is beyond satisfying.
  
  
 We then used this file, a 96 kHz recoding (again LSO with Dvorak) and a couple of other (very good) red book files to compare the outputs of the Gumby. We connected both outputs to the C-290. I convinced myself with the manual: the C-290 and the A-100 mono blocks are completely symmetric designs, i.e. running the Gungnir with balanced outputs and connecting the preamp and amps with balanced cables creates a balanced system all the way to the speakers, as far as I understand. We tried to match the volume between both outputs carefully, but we didn't have any objective means to do so. We conclude:
  
 4) For our own 192 kHz digitalization we preferred the single-ended output. Both sounded beautiful, but single-ended was slightly smoother and had an even more analogue presentation.
 5) For all other files we preferred the balanced output by far and without any doubt. The presentation of the single-ended output was veiled, less detailed, more compressed in the highs. The balanced connection sounded exciting, lots of spatial information and atmosphere. When trying to hear these details with single-ended connection we had to turn up the volume to a point where forte moments became almost painful and compressed.
  
  
 We compared the Accuphase drive. Again this beautiful detail and atmosphere, a bit nobler than the Gumby, but a bit less detailed (e.g. in resolving the development of complex harmonics in sequences of piano chords). Here we tested the drives balanced output vs. single-ended as well (Accuphase promised that the single-ended input of the C-290 is as good as balanced). We conclude:
  
 6) The differences for the Accuphase drive were very, very small, but of a similar nature (more transparent for balanced). But we actually prefer the slightly smoother presentation of the single-ended connection. We also used different cables here: a standard balanced (I think a 20 year old Audioquest), but expensive MIT cabels single-ended. I don't know if this can be responsible for these minor differences. 
  
 7) There seems to be a significant difference between Gumby's outputs. If you insist on maximum detail, transparency, and space go balanced.
  
 Concluding remarks: I was prepared to defend the single-ended outputs here, but our tests showed the contrary. My statements earlier about the Earmax and the Sennheiser headphones and how excellent they sounded is no contradiction. The headphone amp is connected to the tape outputs of the preamp, so here we make use of the summer in the C-290. However, I don't think these differences become so evident with headphones. The HD650 (I love them dearly) is intimate, but doesn't stage very well. The HD800 is really great in simulating a speaker setup. But listening to speakers is a different sport. I am also questioning my use of the Gumby in my own setup. I am feeding a Lyr 2 single-ended, and my preamp (Parasound P5) balanced. The P5 is not a symmetric design, so I am listening to the Parasound summer, and not to the balanced Gumby. With this setup I was not able to hear a big difference between single-ended and balanced when I compared it months ago before my multibit upgrade. There Gumby D/S single-ended was clearly better than Bifrost D/S. All together, I am still super impressed with Gumby and happy to know that I have a DAC that will sound even better when I finally own better and symmetric amps myself.


----------



## artur9

gwitzel said:


> There Gumby D/S single-ended was clearly better than Bifrost D/S. All together, I am still super impressed with Gumby and happy to know that I have a DAC that will sound even better when I finally own better and symmetric amps myself.


 
  
 Great review/impressions.  Thanks so much for that.  Even to satisfy myself I know these things can be a lot of work - can't imagine how much more work it must be to create something for the public.
  
 Have you heard the Yggdrasil?


----------



## gwitzel

artur9 said:


> Great review/impressions.  Thanks so much for that.  Even to satisfy myself I know these things can be a lot of work - can't imagine how much more work it must be to create something for the public.
> 
> Have you heard the Yggdrasil?


 
  
 Just very shortly at the Schiit Show, and it was cold. I would really love to listen to it thoroughly. As I said, I need to save up for my next steps


----------



## Argo Duck

It's a shame you couldn't match, but these are fine impressions all the same: good detail and well presented.



gwitzel said:


> We tried to match the volume between both outputs carefully, but we didn't have any objective means to do so.


----------



## schneller

gwitzel said:


> 7) There seems to be a significant difference between Gumby's outputs. If you insist on maximum detail, transparency, and space go balanced.


 
  
 Pretty sad for those of us who have a high-end setup that either accepts RCA (SE) or DIN input. I am talking NAIM Pre-Amps here.
  
 If Teddy Pardo can accept custom orders for his DACs with different outputs (RCA, XLR, Balanced, DIN, etc.) then it makes you wonder why Schiit can't do the same?
  
 One Yiggy with a DIN output for NAIM please! (I wonder how this implementation would compare to balanced XLR?)
  
 Perhaps Schiit doesn't have the DAC I want?


----------



## RCBinTN

schneller said:


> Pretty sad for those of us who have a high-end setup that either accepts RCA (SE) or DIN input. I am talking NAIM Pre-Amps here.
> 
> If Teddy Pardo can accept custom orders for his DACs with different outputs (RCA, XLR, Balanced, DIN, etc.) then it makes you wonder why Schiit can't do the same?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't think Schiit accepts custom orders for their equipment.  Check their website home page for more details.
 I believe it's just their policy.


----------



## Brubacca

schneller said:


> Pretty sad for those of us who have a high-end setup that either accepts RCA (SE) or DIN input. I am talking NAIM Pre-Amps here.
> 
> If Teddy Pardo can accept custom orders for his DACs with different outputs (RCA, XLR, Balanced, DIN, etc.) then it makes you wonder why Schiit can't do the same?
> 
> ...




Naim does their own thing with the DIN connectors. Also Teddy Pardo built his business selling to Naim Customers. 

Try contacting a Chord Cable Co distributor, I believe that they will make you a Naim DIN to XLR cable.


----------



## earnmyturns

gwitzel said:


> [snip superbly detailed experiments and impressions]


 
 Wow, thank you so much, that's VERY interesting, your dad has a veritable audio lab! This helps me to think through the experiments I want to do when the ski season is over and I have free leisure time to devote to messing around with audio gear. Thanks again!


----------



## gwitzel

argo duck said:


> It's a shame you couldn't match, but these are fine impressions all the same: good detail and well presented.


 
  
 One more update: I realized that we do have a more objective way to level the volume (please correct me if I am wrong). The A100 mono blocks have those nice power peak meters. I matched the volume in the following way:
  
 1) I adjusted the volume for single ended to a comfortable listening level for the test music and marked the position of the pot.
 2) At this level I played pink noise and wrote down the position of the power meter: -44 db with an RMS error of ~ 1 db.
 3) I switched to the balanced output, matched -44 db for the pink noise and marked the second position of the pot.
  
 With this method I can match the volume with an conservative uncertainty of <1 db. Our results remain the same.
  
 I listened more to my HD650 and the little Earmax Pro (single-ended) fed by Gumby through the preamp. The differences between single-ended and balanced Gumby are also there, but much less so than with the loudspeakers. To put it in perspective (if my recollection works properly): for me the differences between Bifrost D/S and Gungnir D/S, and between Gungnir D/S and Gumby were much larger (all compared single-ended with Lyr 2 and HD650).


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Good I think. Thanks for the updated results


----------



## Nicholasheadfi2

I am fairly new to tube amps just purchased the mk11 and am using my ibasso dx50 as a source
I know that the ibasso has a built in DAC but my newbie question is 
Is the dx50 the best choice as a source what would be better 
And can I connect a DAC to the mk11 and use the dx50 still as the source.
How do these things connect together please post a pic if someone has this set up .
Thanks people .


----------



## Brubacca

Just got my Gumby. I have had limited time with this product, but my initial impression is very good. 

First if all, the noise floor is much lower than my current DAC (Naim Unitiqute). Music just kind of appears in space. Instruments sound absolutely real. Ahh that is what a muted trumpet really sounds like. And that snare drum head is a little loose in that song. Can I hear the string being plucked on that bass?

I need to put more time on it, but alot of what i've read about this DAC is true. 

It does seem "better" than the DAC in my Unitiqute, Rega DAC, xDA-1, Meridian Explorer. By better I mean sounds more like live musicians in my room than just a good copy of musicians in my room. I jeed some time alone at home with this DAC to really push it with Rock and Grunge.


----------



## schneller

brubacca said:


> Just got my Gumby. I have had limited time with this product, but my initial impression is very good.
> 
> First if all, the noise floor is much lower than my current DAC (Naim Unitiqute). Music just kind of appears in space. Instruments sound absolutely real. Ahh that is what a muted trumpet really sounds like. And that snare drum head is a little loose in that song. Can I hear the string being plucked on that bass?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Which outputs are you using? Balanced or SE?


----------



## earnmyturns

schneller said:


> Which outputs are you using? Balanced or SE?


 
 Even the Bifrost Multibit, which is SE, beats the Unitiqute in the two settings I tried: 1) Bifrost MB > Asgard 2 vs Unitiqute powering MrSpeakers Alpha Primes; 2) Bifrost MB >RCA>Unitiqute> KF LS50 speakers vs Unitiqute > KEF LS50s. Mostly jazz, world (think Bill Frisell, Dave Holland, Toumani Diabaté).


----------



## Brubacca

schneller said:


> Which outputs are you using? Balanced or SE?




All my gear is single ended.


----------



## Brubacca

it is an absolute nightmare getting the USB driver loaded. I have two different computers both Win 7 Pro 32-Bit. I have tried both with a total of 5 different USB ports and always the same. The auto loaded driver says " the device will not start". Also if i remove all USB devices and try to load the Schiit driver (both the current and last one" the driver will not finish loading and i get a windows error. Very frustrating. I don't intend on using PC as main source, but I'd like to know it works.


----------



## b14cx0ut

brubacca said:


> it is an absolute nightmare getting the USB driver loaded. I have two different computers both Win 7 Pro 32-Bit. I have tried both with a total of 5 different USB ports and always the same. The auto loaded driver says " the device will not start". Also if i remove all USB devices and try to load the Schiit driver (both the current and last one" the driver will not finish loading and i get a windows error. Very frustrating. I don't intend on using PC as main source, but I'd like to know it works.




The latest drivers don't work for me either. On the download page there is a link to the older drivers that should work.


----------



## Dalgas

brubacca said:


> it is an absolute nightmare getting the USB driver loaded. I have two different computers both Win 7 Pro 32-Bit. I have tried both with a total of 5 different USB ports and always the same. The auto loaded driver says " the device will not start". Also if i remove all USB devices and try to load the Schiit driver (both the current and last one" the driver will not finish loading and i get a windows error. Very frustrating. I don't intend on using PC as main source, but I'd like to know it works.


 
  
 If you are not planing on using the USB-input - don´t waste time on getting it working! The USB-card is not bad - but it is far inferior to using a good USB-SPDIF converter like f.ex. the Stello U3.
  
 I am saving up for a Stello U3 - or maybe an future upgrade of the Gungnir USB-card???. I the meantime I am using an older USB-SPDIF converter (Music Fidelity V-link 24/96) - this is however not significantly better than the Gumbys own USB-interface.
  
 But I understand that you are curious....


----------



## Brubacca

I have moved a Squeezebox Touch over to that system, it does work on USB with the EDO App. I want to test this out because this is a possible configuration going forward. This would enable me to move the Qute to my TV system. 

I'll do some extended listening. 

I have mixed feelings about the Gungnir. It is the best digital that I have had in my system. It sounds great paired with my Tube Amp and Speakers. I think that I may really want Yggy, but realistically I can not afford it. The extra $1k might as well be $5k. I also don't think that I can go back to my Dac before. This sounds so much like real music.


----------



## DWbirdseye

Can anyone tell me who owns an Ibasso DX100 weather or not the Gungnir MB is vastly superior to Ibasso's implementation of the ES Sabre 9018 chip; and if so, why? Thanks


----------



## earnmyturns

dwbirdseye said:


> Can anyone tell me who owns an Ibasso DX100 weather or not the Gungnir MB is vastly superior to Ibasso's implementation of the ES Sabre 9018 chip; and if so, why? Thanks


 
 I own a DX90 (dual Sabre ES9018K2Ms) and a Bifrost MB. The Bifrost MB is better is every respect: deeper bass, cleaner upper range, bigger soundstage. I especially love the more precise onset, decay and soundstage placement of percussion and piano with the Bifrost MB. I've not heard the Gungnir MB, but all reports suggest it is at least as good at the Bifrost MB single-ended, and a good step up balanced. But the DX90 is still a very worthy companion for travel.


----------



## DWbirdseye

earnmyturns said:


> I own a DX90 (dual Sabre ES9018K2Ms) and a Bifrost MB. The Bifrost MB is better is every respect: deeper bass, cleaner upper range, bigger soundstage. I especially love the more precise onset, decay and soundstage placement of percussion and piano with the Bifrost MB. I've not heard the Gungnir MB, but all reports suggest it is at least as good at the Bifrost MB single-ended, and a good step up balanced. But the DX90 is still a very worthy companion for travel.



Thanks!! I too own a dx90 and it is a great dap.


----------



## grokit

So I have an old DSG and I feel like a neglected stepchild around here! It bugs me that it's only $250 more to just buy the MBG than to get mine upgraded, and well less than $200 once I pay shipping both ways. I'm about to re-up my electrostatic game and I was wondering why Schiit even still sells the DSG, at the same price even, alongside the MBG.
  
 I don't care about the USB upgrade so much, even though my Gen 1 status in that department also gives me an inferiority complex. I would probably still go to Gen 2 for the extra $100, and it bugs me that we can't get a Gen 3 upgrade for the DSG. But really, if the gumby is that superior, why would anybody still choose the DSG? Why isn't that one on close out?
  
_edit:_ I just realized that they're _not_ the same price. I wasn't running scripts when I checked before. Sorry, my bad


----------



## sheldaze

@grokit, I saw your original post and your edit. I'm glad you made the edit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But I'm still only partially feeling you. Understood, the shipping cost to upgrade your DAC is expensive. But you knew, at initial purchase, the DAC would be upgradeable. It's part of the appeal of owning a Bifrost, Gungnir, or Yggdrasil. And I feel that the Multibit is a significant upgrade, worth the effort in my opinion. This is where I got in on the Gungnir lineup. Perhaps you wait until USB 3 is released (and there is a chance that will be never) - it is also possible that you could just order and self-install any future USB upgrades yourself. So I'm not buying that either.
  
 Here's where I agree with you - Modi 2 Uber was released. While the streams never crossed (it still uses the AKM4396 - the Bifrost Uber used the AKM4399) it brought the feature sets between the Modi and Bifrost lineup really close. And it made people question the value of the Bifrost Uber w/ Gen 2 USB, which I owned at the time. But the Bifrost was soon upgraded to AKM4490. I decided to upgrade mine to Multibit, yet I was always curious what the 4490 version of the Bifrost would sound like. While I've not heard it, I've heard the CEntrance and Grace Design implementations of the 4490, and they're really good. I trust Mike Moffatt and assume his design is quite excellent too!
  
 So it is in this last paragraph where I feel your pain. The 4490 in the Bifrost is user-replaceable, solving your shipping costs if it were implemented at the Gungnir level. And it's not an option in the Gungnir. Thus the streams have crossed, in that the Bifrost 4490 now has a newer chip than the base Gungnir, which still uses the same AKM4399 chip as the older Bifrost Uber. C'est la vie! There must be a reason. Perhaps the upgrade could not have been user-replaceable? And if so, anyone who was willing to pay shipping fees would be much more likely to buy the Multibit versus the 4490. Perhaps the sonic upgrade was insignificant? Perhaps the upgrade, though costing Mike Moffat time and energy to implement in the Bifrost, was a cost savings in the long term per the price of the new chip. And that cost savings did not translate to sales at the price point of the Gungnir.
  
 I think there are always considerations, and many other thought processes in the house of Schiit, that we consumers will never be aware of. I still have faith that Jason and Mike will implement things as best they can given their full list of cost and performance goals.


----------



## bigro

Sheldaze, I agree with your comparison of the Modi 2 U and the Bifrost Uber. The gap became a lot smaller between the two.As Far as the Non MB Gungnir and the 4490 Bifrost, The Ability to do Balanced outputs with Gungnir is probably one of the big differences and I am sure there is a lot more that can be done before and after the DAC chip that could give the Gungnir a performance edge. I am curious if any one has compared the 4490 Bifrost and the DS Gungnir. Some have said the MB Bifrsot and the Gungnir  MB used with the SE out sounds similar. But when using the Balanced outpust the Gungnir MB quickly jumps ahead. I wonder if the same holds true for the Non MB versions.


----------



## grokit

Thanks for the detailed explaination @sheldaze, I haven't been following along as well as I should have been over the years and I feel caught up now
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Agreed after the edit my issues weren't as intractable! It sounds like my best bet is to get the upgrades done; I can take some kind of sick comfort that it would cost me ~$600 (not ~$200) more to just buy the Gumby outright. I trust that you guys aren't all deluded and there is a genuine leap in transparency (so there's no need to A/B), so the upgrade makes the most sense. With my new (to me) amp coming, this will need to happen sooner than later.
  
 And yes I knew this going in, it's fantastic that I can upgrade my DSG to a Gumby; I wouldn't have it any other way. But ~$675 is almost like buying a whole new DAC! So please forgive the rant. I do have a couple more questions. You alluded to maybe never on USB3 for Gungnir, but with my luck the moment I get it back it will become available. And because I'm planning on A/B'ing a couple of good Spdif converters (and have always used one in my DSG), the USB is mostly unused anyways. So it may make sense to wait for the USB3 and do it myself if it ever happens.
  
 Do you guys see another upgrade path coming sooner than later for the Gungnir? For example do you think they might be inclined to combine the multibit technology with the 4490 chipset, or is that not technically feasible? The other thing I was wondering is if the warranty gets any kind of re-set by Schiit after they are done doing the upgrade, since I've had my DSG since the first year of release it's getting close to expiring.


----------



## RCBinTN

grokit said:


> Thanks for the detailed explaination @sheldaze, I haven't been following along as well as I should have been over the years and I feel caught up now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi grokit,
  
 My experience has been UberBi - DSG - GMB.  I can verify that Sheldaze is correct, the upgrade from DSG to GMB is an amazing improvement.  To me, it was well-worth the time and expense, I would do it again in a heart beat.  My music really opened up and, in particular, my combination of GMB - BHA-1 - HD800 turned out to be a real winner.  Incredible instrument clarity / soundstage / bass quality - it's now all good. With the DSG, the BHA-1 amp sounded dark and closed with the HD800.  The multibit upgrade opened up the sound.
  
 BTW, I do not use the USB connection.  I only use optical from the computer into the GMB.
  
 Hope this helps,
 RCBinTN


----------



## hrq12345

Do you guys think there's a big difference between gumby and bimby when only using the SE output? Some people said there's very little difference.


----------



## XenHeadFi

What temperatures do your Gungnirs stabilize at? My Multibit runs +12C or +21F above ambient. At 20C (68F), the top of my Gumby by the "holes" is 32.2C (90F). Definitely warm, but no were close to hot. Not worrying, just wondering.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm curious to hear even more opinions on Multifrost vs. delta-sigma Gungnir. I got the uberfrost in June, and am weighing the $250 + shipping upgrade versus the $1250 + shipping gumby, but continue to be fascinated by the question of just how significantly the standard Gungnir outperforms the multifrost—both in single ended and in balanced—even though I don't see myself going for a gungnir without the MB upgrade.
  
 Are there more insights?


----------



## tjl5709

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm curious to hear even more opinions on Multifrost vs. delta-sigma Gungnir. I got the uberfrost in June, and am weighing the $250 + shipping upgrade versus the $1250 + shipping gumby, but continue to be fascinated by the question of just how significantly the standard Gungnir outperforms the multifrost—both in single ended and in balanced—even though I don't see myself going for a gungnir without the MB upgrade.
> 
> Are there more insights?


 

 I moved from uber bifrost to gumby. (and lyr2 to mojo2)
  
 No looking back. SQ, detail, sound stage........
  
 Seeing such a dramatic effect, I am now searching out moving to yggy.
  
 My music collection has moved closer to live. Very musical. Listen for hours.


----------



## Zyklonius

I am contemplating upgrading my delta-sigma Gungnir to multibit, but was wondering whether it would make that big of a difference and be advisable since I mainly listen to extreme metal (black, death, doom, grind, crust) which comes with idiosyncrasies such as oft-brickwalled production and low dynamic range (that said, I do prefer well-produced metal and try to avoid albums with lo-fi production)? 
  
 I imagine the benefits of multibit reported here are genre-wise universal in nature and would thus improve the listening experience also with the aural chaos and distortion associated with metal, with extra clarity, detail, realism etc without diminishing the in-your-face factor of the genre or exacerbating the poor production. 
  
 Apart from DSG, other links in the chain are Burson Soloist (most likely to be replaced by Mjolnir 2) and Audeze LCD-2F (with Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable).


----------



## DWbirdseye

Just placed my order for the Gungnir Multi Bit to complement my Mjolnir hybrid. MJ is fully burned in so all sonic improvements will be attributed to the Gungnir -super pumped!


----------



## US Blues

zyklonius said:


> I imagine the benefits of multibit reported here are genre-wise universal in nature and would thus improve the listening experience also with the aural chaos and distortion associated with metal, with extra clarity, detail, realism etc without diminishing the in-your-face factor of the genre or exacerbating the poor production.


 
  
 Your imagining of the benefits is accurate. Your music will sound better in every way, and it will not lose it's essence.


----------



## RCBinTN

Speaking from experience, when I upgraded my Gungnir to the MB technology, it was like purchasing a totally new DAC.  The SQ is vastly improved.  That upgrade cost me $500 plus shipping.  It was done in a week.  A bargain.
  
 All my music sounds better.  My source is MacPro - JRMC21 - optical - GMB.  Much of my music is 16/44.1 FLAC or ALAC - it sounds great. Some of my music is 24/96 or higher - sounds simply exceptional.
  
 I do not have experience with the SQ improvement when upgrading from the Bifrost to the Bimby, but have read on Head-Fi (there's a thread for it), I would expect the SQ improvement to be similar to what I've heard with my Gungnir.
  
 The biggest difference in the two DAC's is that the GMB has balanced capability.  Again, I'm not sure that makes a big difference in SQ either.
  
 Hope this helps -
 RCB


----------



## RCBinTN

zyklonius said:


> I am contemplating upgrading my delta-sigma Gungnir to multibit, but was wondering whether it would make that big of a difference and be advisable since I mainly listen to extreme metal (black, death, doom, grind, crust) which comes with idiosyncrasies such as oft-brickwalled production and low dynamic range (that said, I do prefer well-produced metal and try to avoid albums with lo-fi production)?
> 
> I imagine the benefits of multibit reported here are genre-wise universal in nature and would thus improve the listening experience also with the aural chaos and distortion associated with metal, with extra clarity, detail, realism etc without diminishing the in-your-face factor of the genre or exacerbating the poor production.
> 
> Apart from DSG, other links in the chain are Burson Soloist (most likely to be replaced by Mjolnir 2) and Audeze LCD-2F (with Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable).


 
  
 I'm not familiar with extreme metal, but if you suggest some links I will test it out and send back impressions...
 My rig is GMB - Bryston BHA-1 - LCD-X or HD800.
 I would be interested in how death metal sounds on the HD800 .


----------



## RCBinTN

zyklonius said:


> I am contemplating upgrading my delta-sigma Gungnir to multibit, but was wondering whether it would make that big of a difference and be advisable since I mainly listen to extreme metal (black, death, doom, grind, crust) which comes with idiosyncrasies such as oft-brickwalled production and low dynamic range (that said, I do prefer well-produced metal and try to avoid albums with lo-fi production)?
> 
> I imagine the benefits of multibit reported here are genre-wise universal in nature and would thus improve the listening experience also with the aural chaos and distortion associated with metal, with extra clarity, detail, realism etc without diminishing the in-your-face factor of the genre or exacerbating the poor production.
> 
> Apart from DSG, other links in the chain are Burson Soloist (most likely to be replaced by Mjolnir 2) and Audeze LCD-2F (with Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable).


 
  
 Hello - I'm not familiar with the music, but if you send a link or two I will gladly evaluate it, and send my impressions -
 Rig:  MacPro - optical - GMB - Bryston BHA-1 - LCD-X or HD800.  You can choose which headphones I use.
  
 I'm interested to hear some extreme metal death, doom, or crust, with which I have no experience.  I'm open to all new music genre.  My guess (?) is the music will sound Great with the Gungnir MB DAC.
  
 Thanks -
 RCB


----------



## disastermouse

rcbintn said:


> Hello - I'm not familiar with the music, but if you send a link or two I will gladly evaluate it, and send my impressions -
> Rig:  MacPro - optical - GMB - Bryston BHA-1 - LCD-X or HD800.  You can choose which headphones I use.
> 
> I'm interested to hear some extreme metal death, doom, or crust, with which I have no experience.  I'm open to all new music genre.  My guess (?) is the music will sound Great with the Gungnir MB DAC.
> ...



Please do not listen to death metal with HD800s. I'm trying to prevent pain here. Please.


----------



## Deftone

zyklonius said:


> I am contemplating upgrading my delta-sigma Gungnir to multibit, but was wondering whether it would make that big of a difference and be advisable since I mainly listen to extreme metal (black, death, doom, grind, crust) which comes with idiosyncrasies such as oft-brickwalled production and low dynamic range (that said, I do prefer well-produced metal and try to avoid albums with lo-fi production)?


 
  
 its a hard one for us metal heads, the drums are going that fast and the guitars are so fuzzy and distorted and then add the dynamic range compression and clipping.
  
 my system only sounds average to great when im listening to metal (thrash,heavy,black,death) but if listen non metal, acoustic, live recorded or goups with small amount of instruments you can really hear the space, clarity, decay and timbre. its excellent.
  
 there are exceptions though. i have 2 of opeths albums that i downmixed from 5.1 and the dynamic range meter clocks them in at 11/12 instead of the original 4/5 and they sound amazing. sadly 87% of my whole library is dynamicly crippled and dont come any where near their sound.
  
 so i do i think its worth it? imho not really not for us. but the guys who like classical and jazz i envy you it must be a treat.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

disastermouse said:


> Please do not listen to death metal with HD800s. I'm trying to prevent pain here. Please.


 
  
  
 #audeze


----------



## Zyklonius

rcbintn said:


> Hello - I'm not familiar with the music, but if you send a link or two I will gladly evaluate it, and send my impressions -
> Rig:  MacPro - optical - GMB - Bryston BHA-1 - LCD-X or HD800.  You can choose which headphones I use.
> 
> I'm interested to hear some extreme metal death, doom, or crust, with which I have no experience.  I'm open to all new music genre.  My guess (?) is the music will sound Great with the Gungnir MB DAC.
> ...


 
  
 Sweet, I'll PM you some links of gateway bands and well-produced albums.
  
 If you are curious to learn more, there's a vibrant thread discussing the actual music (http://www.head-fi.org/t/397407/lets-talk-metal) as well as headphones best suited for metal and its myriad sub-genres (http://www.head-fi.org/t/715478/headphones-for-metal-music-ultimate-solution).
  
  


deftone said:


> its a hard one for us metal heads, the drums are going that fast and the guitars are so fuzzy and distorted and then add the dynamic range compression and clipping.
> 
> my system only sounds average to great when im listening to metal (thrash,heavy,black,death) but if listen non metal, acoustic, live recorded or goups with small amount of instruments you can really hear the space, clarity, decay and timbre. its excellent.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, good to know. Indeed, the low dynamic range and insane brickwalling prevalent in metal is somewhat frustrating, but on the other hand, I've noticed that good production (e.g. clear instrument separation and sense of space despite heavily distorted strings and overall density) can salvage a lot despite low DR. I have some records with DR5-6 that sound absolutely fantastic from the point of view of musicality. And the other way round: some of the early 90s black metal is ridiculously lo-fi and sounds like it was recorded in a tin can but can nonetheless have DR10+.


----------



## RCBinTN

zyklonius said:


> Sweet, I'll PM you some links of gateway bands and well-produced albums.
> 
> If you are curious to learn more, there's a vibrant thread discussing the actual music (http://www.head-fi.org/t/397407/lets-talk-metal) as well as headphones best suited for metal and its myriad sub-genres (http://www.head-fi.org/t/715478/headphones-for-metal-music-ultimate-solution).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, please do send the links, because even if I don't care for the genre my grandkids likely will LOL.
 Just a thought but I believe the LCD-X can handle any genre of music - seems like this might be a good test of that statement!
  
 Cheers -
 RCB


----------



## joeexp

Hey guys -  My Gumby is playing up! For some reason - since yesterday - it doesn't play  files with 48Khz, 96Khz and 192Khz sample rates any longer.
 Any other sample rate like 44.1, 88.2 and 176.3 is playing nicely. I have tried this with my iMac and MacBook Pro - same result.
 Needless to say that this situation is annoying the Schiit out of me.
  
 I have already contacted the Schiit Customer Service but they only suggested rebooting both Computer and the Gumby thus far.
 Is there a way to completely resetting the Gumby??
  
 Any other helpful suggestions are welcome!
  
 Thank you ...
  
 PS: Mac OSX El Capitan, Audirvana, Amarra > USB > Gumby


----------



## NA Blur

Try another USB port of you are using USB. I think older USB ports do not support higher bit rate files.
 Also go into your sound manager, if you use one like the Realtek manager, and play around with the bit depths and bit rates. See if that helps.


----------



## DougD

joeexp said:


> Hey guys -  My Gumby is playing up! For some reason - since yesterday - it doesn't play  files with 48Khz, 96Khz and 192Khz sample rates any longer.
> Any other sample rate like 44.1, 88.2 and 176.3 is playing nicely. I have tried this with my iMac and MacBook Pro - same result.
> Needless to say that this situation is annoying the Schiit out of me.
> 
> << snip snip >>


 
  
 I was getting some gawd-awful stuff out of my Bimby the other day. I was bouncing around, sampling a lot of stuff for a minute or two, and suddenly it was sounding like fingernails on a chalkboard. if I cycled through the sources a few times, the Bimby would (eventually) get its groove back, so to speak. Very puzzling, had not encountered anything like it before, in the few months I've had the Bifrost MB. 
  
 After a while, I realized this was being triggered whenever the "new [play immediately] tune" had a different sample rate than the previous tune. JRiver was doing a "smooth blend" transition ... which I think is its default. I changed the JRMC settings to force a 0.4 sec gap between songs, and that cured the problem for me. 
  
 This may or may not have any bearing on your particular problem, of course. Good luck!


----------



## RCBinTN

dougd said:


> I was getting some gawd-awful stuff out of my Bimby the other day. I was bouncing around, sampling a lot of stuff for a minute or two, and suddenly it was sounding like fingernails on a chalkboard. if I cycled through the sources a few times, the Bimby would (eventually) get its groove back, so to speak. Very puzzling, had not encountered anything like it before, in the few months I've had the Bifros MB.
> 
> After a while, I realized this was being triggered whenever the "new [play immediately] tune" had a different sample rate than the previous tune. JRiver was doing a "smooth blend" transition ... which I think is its default. I changed the JRMC settings to force a 0.4 sec gap between songs, and that cured the problem for me.
> 
> This may or may not have any bearing on your particular problem, of course. Good luck!


 
  
 Yeah, I've had some goofy moments with my GMB as well.  It usually happened when the computer was changing files to a different bitrate and the GMB couldn't keep up and got lost.  I would just power down the devices and start back up - this solved the issues.  I had many more issues while running USB.  Since going to the optical I've had no issues.  FYI, RCBinTN.


----------



## grokit

I've been getting dropouts on my DSG, I think it may be HDD/USB-related though. I'm hoping a Firewire drive solves the issue, I need to back-up my library anyhow. I am also going to audition a different Spdif converter, in case that's the issue. I hope it's not the DAC itself; it's happening at random during songs it's not changing bit-rates. It does seem to happen more often during demanding passages which has me worried. But only during HDD playback.


----------



## sheldaze

grokit said:


> I've been getting dropouts on my DSG, I think it may be HDD/USB-related though. I'm hoping a Firewire drive solves the issue, I need to back-up my library anyhow. I am also going to audition a different Spdif converter, in case that's the issue. I hope it's not the DAC itself; it's happening at random during songs it's not changing bit-rates. It does seem to happen more often during demanding passages which has me worried. But only during HDD playback.


 
 What is a "demanding passage"?
  
 I don't mean to ask silly questions, but I honestly do not know what this means in terms of computer audio playback 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Lots of instruments playing at the same time? Lots of volume?


----------



## grokit

sheldaze said:


> Lots of instruments playing at the same time? Lots of volume?


 
  
 Yes, that. Dynamically demanding with many frequencies happening at the same time.


----------



## disastermouse

dougd said:


> I was getting some gawd-awful stuff out of my Bimby the other day. I was bouncing around, sampling a lot of stuff for a minute or two, and suddenly it was sounding like fingernails on a chalkboard. if I cycled through the sources a few times, the Bimby would (eventually) get its groove back, so to speak. Very puzzling, had not encountered anything like it before, in the few months I've had the Bifrost MB.
> 
> After a while, I realized this was being triggered whenever the "new [play immediately] tune" had a different sample rate than the previous tune. JRiver was doing a "smooth blend" transition ... which I think is its default. I changed the JRMC settings to force a 0.4 sec gap between songs, and that cured the problem for me.
> 
> This may or may not have any bearing on your particular problem, of course. Good luck!



This is a known issue for BiMBy in the BiMBy thread. Sample rate changes can cause weirdness, especially in Windows (although Macs are maybe not immune). Sometimes it's a matter of time for the switch to loosen or something. Full restart fixes.

The problem is that it's hard to replicate by Schiit.

I just got a BiMBy because I really only listen to ALAC and Tidal.

Are you running Windows or Mac?


----------



## DougD

disastermouse said:


> This is a known issue for BiMBy in the BiMBy thread. Sample rate changes can cause weirdness, especially in Windows (although Macs are maybe not immune). Sometimes it's a matter of time for the switch to loosen or something. Full restart fixes.
> 
> The problem is that it's hard to replicate by Schiit.
> 
> ...


 
 Windows.
  
 95% of the time, I listen to full albums end to end, and have never seen the issue when doing that. 
  
 Since it only happens when I (1) force the music player to start a tune from a different folder before it had completely played the "now playing" song, and (2) I'm being "active DJ" to make that happen, adding a small gap between songs was a very easy cure. Easier and more satisfactory to me than doing a shutdown/restart of either the DAC or the music playing software.
  
 Cycling through the source button (push push push) also works faster than a restart, that seems to cause the Gimby to check "what is the sample rate I'm seeing here" when it gets back to the USB input.
  
 I've never understood the great emphasis some people put on gapless playing ... maybe because I don't listen to much classical music ... so I'm 100% happy with the solution of simply adding a small between-song gap. 
  
 I don't think of it as a bug or flaw, it's more a little quirk of personality.


----------



## XenHeadFi

grokit said:


> I've been getting dropouts on my DSG, I think it may be HDD/USB-related though. I'm hoping a Firewire drive solves the issue, I need to back-up my library anyhow. I am also going to audition a different Spdif converter, in case that's the issue. I hope it's not the DAC itself; it's happening at random during songs it's not changing bit-rates. It does seem to happen more often during demanding passages which has me worried. But only during HDD playback.


 
 How old is the drive? The drive can be failing, and what you are experiencing is bottleneck in Input/Output. The HDD is having trouble reading and the computer has to wait for the HDD to respond. I usually experience this after 4-5 years of active use. Only Seagate drives have failed on me between 1-3 years...
  
 Just replaced my 5 year old Mac laptop drive because every little request brought up the Spinning Wheel of Annoyance and Frustration. Put in an SSD and now what took 1 minute with the failing drive, takes 3 seconds with the SSD.


----------



## earnmyturns

grokit said:


> I've been getting dropouts on my DSG, I think it may be HDD/USB-related though. I'm hoping a Firewire drive solves the issue, I need to back-up my library anyhow. I am also going to audition a different Spdif converter, in case that's the issue. I hope it's not the DAC itself; it's happening at random during songs it's not changing bit-rates. It does seem to happen more often during demanding passages which has me worried. But only during HDD playback.


 
 I'd test with a different HDD. HDDs can get "sticky" (lots of read retries) on their way to final demise. In my experience, every HDD on a heavily used (Mac) laptop goes belly-up after a few years of use. Delicate mechanical devices with very fast-moving parts in hot enclosures subject to frequent mechanical shocks from movement. It's amazing they last as long as they do.


----------



## grokit

Quote:


xenheadfi said:


> How old is the drive? The drive can be failing, and what you are experiencing is bottleneck in Input/Output. The HDD is having trouble reading and the computer has to wait for the HDD to respond. I usually experience this after 4-5 years of active use. Only Seagate drives have failed on me between 1-3 years...
> 
> Just replaced my 5 year old Mac laptop drive because every little request brought up the Spinning Wheel of Annoyance and Frustration. Put in an SSD and now what took 1 minute with the failing drive, takes 3 seconds with the SSD.


 
  
 It's from when USB3 first became affordable (Mac is the last Mini with USB2), and it's a 3tb with 2/3 of it devoted to movie rips that take _forever_ to come up because I never play them. I was on track to convert the whole mess to a NAS at one point, I can barely remember why that project got aborted but I do need to get back to that.
  
  


earnmyturns said:


> I'd test with a different HDD. HDDs can get "sticky" (lots of read retries) on their way to final demise. In my experience, every HDD on a heavily used (Mac) laptop goes belly-up after a few years of use. Delicate mechanical devices with very fast-moving parts in hot enclosures subject to frequent mechanical shocks from movement. It's amazing they last as long as they do.


 
  
 I'm getting a Firewire 800 drive online ASAP as mentioned, I will use that as a backup and stopgap for now until the NAS ultimately takes over. And then I will have a choice between 10/100 vs. wifi vs. f/w 800 vs. USB etc. to be able to compare for myself what kind of data to convert, if there's any difference in sound or errors.


----------



## ufospls2

Depending on a few factors it might be time for a new DAC soon. Coming from a Resonessence Labs Concero HD, do you think I would notice an improvement in SQ by using the GMB? I have a chance to buy a Sim Audio Moon 300d for a decent price, has anyone heard this DAC? Impressions vs the GMB? The amp I would be using is an Auralic Taurus mk2.


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## earnmyturns

grokit said:


> I'm getting a Firewire 800 drive online ASAP as mentioned, I will use that as a backup and stopgap for now until the NAS ultimately takes over. And then I will have a choice between 10/100 vs. wifi vs. f/w 800 vs. USB etc. to be able to compare for myself what kind of data to convert, if there's any difference in sound or errors.


 
 Forget about wifi unless you live in the woods with no nearby competing networks. Sounding like an old-time deeply scratched record: get yourself a dedicated streamer with a wired connection to your NAS and a good USB out. Add a decent reclocking USB > S/PDIF converter between your dedicated streamer and your DAC in case you feel it helps with jitter. If you are willing to mess around with open-source software, you can get a good streamer for $100: CuBox-i2eX (got mine from NewEgg) with Volumio.


----------



## Ttenu

Got the Gumby last week. I didn't like the sound at first and preferred the Bimby (burned-in). After burn-in, the Gumby is clearly superior especially over balanced cable (solid copper Anticables).
  
 Only one issue I had was an ear shattering blast due to a missed sample switch. I was using Jriver to stream my collection from a media server and upsample to 176.4 in integer mode. When Jriver is in exclusive mode, it changes your mac OS sound output from Schiit to something else like internal speaker. Jriver crashed and closed but continued holding onto the exclusive access to the Schiit. I wasn't able to change the system sound output back to the Schiit even though Jriver wasn't open. I opened Amarra for Tidal which gives direct access to the Schiit without going through CoreAudio system. This was a big mistake.
  
 Seems like Amarra for Tidal tried sending through a 44.1 sample into the Schiit which was stuck on 176.4 from Jriver gaining exclusive access and crashing. What came from the output of my amp was the most unholy, horrid, digital noise I have ever heard. I don't think I've ever moved that fast to turn it off.
  
 Beware... if your Gumby seems stuck in place, don't play around...


----------



## grokit

earnmyturns said:


> I'd test with a different HDD.


 


grokit said:


> I'm getting a Firewire 800 drive online ASAP


 
  
 I just "won" this "barely-used" drive on the bay, hopefully it will be a good stop-gap until the NAS is online.
  

 Not only will I be using a different drive, but the data will bypass the USB bus as well


----------



## RCBinTN

ttenu said:


> Got the Gumby last week. I didn't like the sound at first and preferred the Bimby (burned-in). After burn-in, the Gumby is clearly superior especially over balanced cable (solid copper Anticables).
> 
> Only one issue I had was an ear shattering blast due to a missed sample switch. I was using Jriver to stream my collection from a media server and upsample to 176.4 in integer mode. When Jriver is in exclusive mode, it changes your mac OS sound output from Schiit to something else like internal speaker. Jriver crashed and closed but continued holding onto the exclusive access to the Schiit. I wasn't able to change the system sound output back to the Schiit even though Jriver wasn't open. I opened Amarra for Tidal which gives direct access to the Schiit without going through CoreAudio system. This was a big mistake.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Total Ouch!  Hope your ears, and the gear, are OK.
 FYI, many folks leave their GMB (and other Schiit MB DACs) powered on all the time.  Keep 'em warm - makes the sound more consistent.  A reco from Mike himself, and it works for me...


----------



## Ttenu

rcbintn said:


> Total Ouch!  Hope your ears, and the gear, are OK.
> FYI, many folks leave their GMB (and other Schiit MB DACs) powered on all the time.  Keep 'em warm - makes the sound more consistent.  A reco from Mike himself, and it works for me...




Yes, I do leave it on all the time. My best description for the Gumby compared to my old steadfasts, ESS Sabre 9018 of which I have many, is that it sounds real. Like I am in a studio. The Sabre always sounded digital to me.

I do stack my Gumby with the MJ2 which raises its temperature. Hopefully that doesn't alter its temperature enough to have a negative effect. I doubt it does.


----------



## RCBinTN

ttenu said:


> Yes, I do leave it on all the time. My best description for the Gumby compared to my old steadfasts, ESS Sabre 9018 of which I have many, is that it sounds real. Like I am in a studio. The Sabre always sounded digital to me.
> 
> I do stack my Gumby with the MJ2 which raises its temperature. Hopefully that doesn't alter its temperature enough to have a negative effect. I doubt it does.


 
  
 Me neither.  I think that helps the GMB stay warm, stacked up.  Personally, I leave my Macbook on top of the GMB.  Gives me a warm feeling whenever I pick up the Mac.


----------



## yinyang69

Has anyone tried audiophile grade fuse swap for gumby?


----------



## gevorg

Nope. :blink:


----------



## grokit

I just completed an outdated comparison, between two outdated spdif converters, with my outdated delta sigma Gunginr. I had been using the XMOS based MF V192, and compared it to the Streamlength based Halide Brddge. The V192 is noticbly better to my ears, and to my surprise. The differences were subtle, but when I switched back to the V192 the 'veil' lifted and muscicality improved. It was like the Bridge took me further away from the music, and not in a good soundstage way. I wonder if I would experience the same results with a Gumby, and how these may compare to Schiit's USB.2 or even .3 inputs. All I know is that the V192 smoked the OG USB input on my Gungnir. Does my model even have a nickname, because dsg keeps getting autocorrected.


----------



## jole68




----------



## jole68




----------



## Uchiya

Even something like the Bose Mini Soundlink speaker can benefit from the lineout of this wonderful dac.  The soundlink serves conveniently as a speaker bar for my pc monitors and it's satisfying.


----------



## Ableza

I just set up my Gungnir MB.  Compared to my previous office head phone rig DAC, a Wavelength Proton, I much prefer the Schiit.  The Wavelength is now for sale, send ma a PM if interested.  This after noon I will compare the Gungnir to my Yggdrasil.


----------



## AudioBear

Can't wait to hear your results on the comparison!


----------



## Peaceofmind

Ableza, please try and give your overall opinion percentage wise. Is the Gumby 90% or more like 70% to the Yggy. Some say they are very close, other say Yggy is in a different league.


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## AudioBear

Ablaza,
  
 You don't need to give percentages for me because they are so subjective.  How about just telling us what Yggy adds or subtracts to what Gumby sounds like?  In your subjective opinion is the added size, cost and heat of the Yggy worth it to you?  Obviously you can't be expected to decide whether it's worth to us.


----------



## Peaceofmind

All I want to know is can you tell a difference between the two or are they so similar SQ wise that you can't tell them apart.


----------



## Ableza

Gungnir MB vs Yggdrasil: USB output from my music server, feeding my new Mjolnir 2 amp via balanced cables.  There is a definite difference between the two DACs.  It is subtle, not as obvious as the very marked difference when moving to Schiit's MB technology from, well, every D/S DAC I have ever used.  The difference between Yggy and Gumby is in the texture and detail.  The Yggdrasil reveals more subtle details and sounds more dynamic.  Gungnir is actually a little warmer sounding to me and reminds me of the sound I enjoy in many tube-buffered preamps.  Gungnir will be a fine replacement to the Wavelength I was using at my desk.  Yggdrasil will return to my main 2-channel system, where it excels driving a loudspeaker-based system.  But, for half the cost, the fact that Gungnir achieves nearly the sound of Yggdrasil is an amazing feat and points to the quality and innovation of the Schiit MB filters.  I think it is very much worth whatever they decide to charge for it.


----------



## Peaceofmind

I'm going to speculate the main difference between the two is the use of the USB Gen 2 on the Gumby vs USB Gen 3 on the Yggy.


----------



## Ableza

peaceofmind said:


> I'm going to speculate the main difference between the two is the use of the USB Gen 2 on the Gumby vs USB Gen 3 on the Yggy.


 
  
 I suspect it has more to do with the different DAC topology between the two.


----------



## Baldr

peaceofmind said:


> I'm going to speculate the main difference between the two is the use of the USB Gen 2 on the Gumby vs USB Gen 3 on the Yggy.


 

*Much* better power supply and compartmenting as well.


----------



## Ableza

Very nice work on both devices, Mr. Moffatt.  Thank you.


----------



## schneller

I invited some Headfiers over to my place last weekend. We did extensive A/Bing of GMB and Yiggy on my system: HTPC source (JRiver/FLAC files from NAS; TIDAL HIFI, etc.) > DAC > NAIM SuperNait2 amp > Dynaudio Focus 260 speakers. 
  
 The differences between the two were clear on such a resolving system. 
  
 (SE output was used in each case.)
  
 The Yiggy clearly...
 -Was more resolving
 -Was more nuanced
 -Offered more insight and detail into the music
 -Offered better "black" levels / lower noise
 -Perhaps a tad better imaging
 -Offers a detailed, yet non-fatiguing and addictive sound
  
 The GMB...
 -Offers less detail
 -Sounds a tad "warmer" than Yiggy
 -Is cheaper
 -Has a more manageable footprint
 -Is available in black
  
  
 Other thoughts:
 -I too wondered how much of Yiggy's advantages come down to its USB 3 implementation. 
 -I prefer either to the Audio-GD 19 (10th Anniversary edition)
 -Other DACs that fall in between the two GMB and Yiggy price points that still may be strong competitors: Ayre CODEX and Chord 2Qute
 -By the time you spend $1250 on the GMB, what's another $800 for the Yiggy? 
 -In hindsight, I still think the Yiggy is the one I want. It is addictive.


----------



## prismstorm

Speaking of which, will the GMB ever get upgrades to USB gen 3? I live overseas and am holding off buying waiting for the GMB to get this 'meaningful upgrade', since it will be a hassle to get it now and then having to send it back to the States just to get the USB upgraded once it's announced.


----------



## Peaceofmind

Yes the USB Gen 3 will be available for the Gumby as an upgrade once Schiit secures a larger quantity of USB Gen 3 boards. Right now the quantity at hand are being reserved for the Yggy. When that will be, I don't know.


----------



## Peaceofmind

By the way, the word "addictive" to describe the Yggy keeps popping up which has me leaning to buy that DAC.


----------



## tjl5709

peaceofmind said:


> By the way, the word "addictive" to describe the Yggy keeps popping up which has me leaning to buy that DAC.


 

 Having moved from a bifrost/lyr2 stack to a gumby/mj2 stack I can tell ya the multibit platform is very addicting. Where as I enjoyed listening to the bf uber/lyr2, I am completly addicted to the gb/mj2. I can't get enough.
  
 My music collection sounds completly different. I hear stuff I never knew was there. My old favorites that I have listened to for years are revealing new details.
  
 Prior to getting the new stack, I never understood the benefits of a good dac and the impact it could play. But spending time here, and other forums, I kept seeing people list the upgrade path and impact as headphone>dac>amp. I now get it.
  
 What ever one you end up with, you will not regret it.


----------



## artur9

prismstorm said:


> Speaking of which, will the GMB ever get upgrades to USB gen 3?


 
 I thought either Jason or Mike said USB 3 is reserved for the Yggy.


----------



## prismstorm

artur9 said:


> I thought either Jason or Mike said USB 3 is reserved for the Yggy.


 
 Well here's to hoping that it trickles down just like the multibit thing did ... 
  
 They also said Gungnir would be fully upgradeable and they would do so when 'meaningful upgrades' present themselves, certainly hoping that USB 3 is a meaningful upgrade ...


----------



## Peaceofmind

Mike said once the circuits that go into making the USB Gen 3 become more availability, a USB Gen 3 upgrade will be offer.


----------



## Dalgas

peaceofmind said:


> I'm going to speculate the main difference between the two is the use of the USB Gen 2 on the Gumby vs USB Gen 3 on the Yggy.


 
 Good point!
  
 I have tried my Gumby with a Stello U3 USB/spdif converter and it totally blew the USB gen 2 out of the water!!! The sound via USB gen 2 was dull and boring and the soundstage a lot smaller than via the Stello U3.
  
 The gen 2 USB is not bad but the Stello U3 is just a totally different beast!


----------



## Dalgas

I have been looking for an "outboard" USB/spdif for a while and have just settled for a Yellowtec PUC Lite. The Yellowtec should be better than the Stello U3 and even better than the Audiophilleo + purepower.
  
 Only problem is that Yellowtec ONLY has AES output. But a simple XLR to RCA (or BNC) cable should do the trick. I contacted Schiit about it and Nick T. replied: "I  would recommend using the Neutrik or similar balance to single ended transformer to get the impedance correct.
 
Otherwise it should work."
 
Anyone tried the Yellowtec???


----------



## artur9

dalgas said:


> I have been looking for an "outboard" USB/spdif for a while and have just settled for a Yellowtec PUC Lite.


 
 I'm using a wyred4sound link + wyrd.  Loving the sound.


----------



## Peaceofmind

I don't think AES and RCA/BNC are interchangeable, not only are the impedance different but the so are the voltage. The AES voltage can be 10 time higher.


----------



## RCBinTN

tjl5709 said:


> Having moved from a bifrost/lyr2 stack to a gumby/mj2 stack I can tell ya the multibit platform is very addicting. Where as I enjoyed listening to the bf uber/lyr2, I am completly addicted to the gb/mj2. I can't get enough.
> 
> My music collection sounds completly different. I hear stuff I never knew was there. My old favorites that I have listened to for years are revealing new details.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have followed a similar path and arrived at the same conclusion about the importance of the DAC in my rig.
  
 My progression was:  UberBi - Gungnir - GMB.  Every step improved the SQ.  The last one improved it so much that I realized the DAC plays a primary role in the rig vs. the amplifier.  I mean, I already had decent amps, but the MB upgrade made everything sound much better.  By much better, I mean more instrument clarity and resolution / lower floor / much better sound stage.
  
 Net - the music sounds more realistic.
  
 However, based on the Yggr posts, it may be time to take the next (final) step...
  
 In the meantime, I am really enjoying my music.  That's what it is about.


----------



## tjl5709

rcbintn said:


> I have followed a similar path and arrived at the same conclusion about the importance of the DAC in my rig.
> 
> My progression was:  UberBi - Gungnir - GMB.  Every step improved the SQ.  The last one improved it so much that I realized the DAC plays a primary role in the rig vs. the amplifier.  I mean, I already had decent amps, but the MB upgrade made everything sound much better.  By much better, I mean more instrument clarity and resolution / lower floor / much better sound stage.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep. I cuncur. Mines on order..............


----------



## Sandvol

New to HeadFi and new to Schiit. Just bought a Modi Uber and already thinking of upgrading to a Gungnir MB. Not a Head Fi guy per se in reality although I do have an Audioengine DAC and B&W headphones. I listen to music from my laptop but mostly consider myself a speaker guy. I have a tube amp. I really enjoy reading all the comments on this forum. A lot of good information here.  Anyway, just amazed at the Modi. I have a Micromega stage two I use as transport that I used with the MSB Link DAC  for years that finally  went kaput. Can't imagine how the Gungnir MB will sound. The DAC is the most important piece in anyone's set-up. Amp is second and speakers or headphones are last IMO.


----------



## tjl5709

sandvol said:


> New to HeadFi and new to Schiit. Just bought a Modi Uber and already thinking of upgrading to a Gungnir MB. Not a Head Fi guy per se in reality although I do have an Audioengine DAC and B&W headphones. I listen to music from my laptop but mostly consider myself a speaker guy. I have a tube amp. I really enjoy reading all the comments on this forum. A lot of good information here.  Anyway, just amazed at the Modi. I have a Micromega stage two I use as transport that I used with the MSB Link DAC  for years that finally  went kaput. Can't imagine how the Gungnir MB will sound. The DAC is the most important piece in anyone's set-up. Amp is second and speakers or headphones are last IMO.


 

 Welcome to the club. I can only speak for myself, but moving from bifrost uber to gumby was a revelation.


----------



## Dalgas

peaceofmind said:


> I don't think AES and RCA/BNC are interchangeable, not only are the impedance different but the so are the voltage. The AES voltage can be 10 time higher.


 
 Connecting should be no problem:
  
http://grizzlyaudio.blogspot.dk/2015/08/yellowtec-puc2-lite-comparisons-made-to.html


----------



## lukeap69

A limey review from Darko

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/01/zesty-and-sweet-the-stunning-schiit-gungnir-multibit-dac/


----------



## artur9

lukeap69 said:


> A limey review from Darko
> 
> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/01/zesty-and-sweet-the-stunning-schiit-gungnir-multibit-dac/


 

 I think he's a kiwi, not a limey.


----------



## US Blues

artur9 said:


> lukeap69 said:
> 
> 
> > A limey review from Darko
> ...


 

 Aussie. 
  
@lukeap69 thanks for linking the review.


----------



## Argo Duck

^ Yes. A kiwi is an entirely different kind of fruitiness than a lime


----------



## AudioBear

lukeap69 said:


> A limey review from Darko
> 
> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/01/zesty-and-sweet-the-stunning-schiit-gungnir-multibit-dac/


 

 I can't get the link to work.  Is it just a problem with my network or computer or have others had a problem?


----------



## lukeap69

It seems there is a problem with Darko's site at the moment. Please try it later.


----------



## AudioBear

1000 Head-fiers are trying to log on....


----------



## reddog

audiobear said:


> 1000 Head-fiers are trying to log on....



Yep I will try the site again later.


----------



## joeexp

lukeap69 said:


> It seems there is a problem with Darko's site at the moment. Please try it later.


 
  
 There is definitely a problem with Darko's site - and I am not talking about the network issue


----------



## gevorg

joeexp said:


> lukeap69 said:
> 
> 
> > It seems there is a problem with Darko's site at the moment. Please try it later.
> ...




Maybe those Vodka ethernet cables that DAR reviewed some time back have better synergy with audio systems, rather than website hosting.


----------



## yinyang69

Does anyone know the fuse values on the gungnir?


----------



## Dalgas

Google told me 1A slow blow - but also 2 A slow blow. Guessing that 1 A is for 230 V and 2 A for 110 V???
  
 Ask Schiit - or even better: Open the darn thing....


----------



## Ableza

yinyang69 said:


> Does anyone know the fuse values on the gungnir?


 
 Why, did you blow a fuse?


----------



## Argo Duck

Yep if blown definitely send back to schiit for troubleshooting


----------



## yinyang69

Not blown. Thinking of fuse swap. that's all.


----------



## Dalgas

I have swapped fuses in my NAD M3 - nice improvement! I have the same plan with my Gumby - but not until the guarantee expires.
  
 I did however find a very interesting post about fuse-swap in Gungnir:
  
http://www.stereophile.com/comment/538070#comment-538070


----------



## sceleratus

Yesterday the upgraded multibit Gungnir arrived. So how does it sound? 

 Like walking through a garden filled with many varieties of flowers, fruit trees and vegetables, where every bloom, every piece of fruit, every plant are perfectly shaped and ripe for the picking. Sweet scents filling the whole garden. 

Is it worth $500? Hell yes!!

It was real nice that Schiit returned it in a new factory box. The shirt and coffee mugs were a nice touch.


----------



## RCBinTN

sceleratus said:


> Yesterday the upgraded multibit Gungnir arrived. So how does it sound?
> 
> Like walking through a garden filled with many varieties of flowers, fruit trees and vegetables, where every bloom, every piece of fruit, every plant are perfectly shaped and ripe for the picking. Sweet scents filling the whole garden.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great post!
 I agree 100%.  The DAC gets better as it gets older, just like you and me .
  
 However, I didn't get no free stuff - I'd be happy with a travel mug.


----------



## sceleratus

rcbintn said:


> Great post!
> I agree 100%.  The DAC gets better as it gets older, just like you and me .
> 
> However, I didn't get no free stuff - I'd be happy with a travel mug.


 

 You must not have entered Promo Code "MUCKNAJER"


----------



## Argo Duck

The Schiit engineer who put his shirt and coffee mugs down somewhere then couldn't find them would like them back


----------



## RCBinTN

sceleratus said:


> You must not have entered Promo Code "MUCKNAJER"


 
  
 No, I tried FREESCHIIT but it didn't work.  LOL.
 Reply and get your 1000th post.  I just got mine tonight.  No better place to be, than talking Schiit.
  
 Prosit -
 RCB


----------



## DWbirdseye

sceleratus said:


> Yesterday the upgraded multibit Gungnir arrived. So how does it sound?
> 
> Like walking through a garden filled with many varieties of flowers, fruit trees and vegetables, where every bloom, every piece of fruit, every plant are perfectly shaped and ripe for the picking. Sweet scents filling the whole garden.
> 
> ...



Congratulations! I purchased the MJ2 in December and the Gungnir MB in January and just got 2 boxes filled with schiit. Not that I'm complaining. Music has never sounded so good. Enjoy.


----------



## Nautrachkfriend

After saving some cash for the last 5 months I have finally placed my Gumby order. The Gumby will be replacing my Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD soundcard, so I am expecting to be absolutely floored. I can't wait to hear how the Gumby will sound paired with the Mjolnir 2!


----------



## RCBinTN

nautrachkfriend said:


> After saving some cash for the last 5 months I have finally placed my Gumby order. The Gumby will be replacing my Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD soundcard, so I am expecting to be absolutely floored. I can't wait to hear how the Gumby will sound paired with the Mjolnir 2!


 
  
 Congratulations!  You will love the sound.


----------



## US Blues

nautrachkfriend said:


> After saving some cash for the last 5 months I have finally placed my Gumby order. The Gumby will be replacing my Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD soundcard, so I am expecting to be absolutely floored. I can't wait to hear how the Gumby will sound paired with the Mjolnir 2!


 

 You may wish to lay out some snacks on the floor, because once the Gumby puts you down there, you likely won't get up for a while.


----------



## Nautrachkfriend

us blues said:


> You may wish to lay out some snacks on the floor, because once the Gumby puts you down there, you likely won't get up for a while.


 
 I've got the almonds and water ready, bathroom near by! (Hopefully it shows up by Saturday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## jimdandy

I really hope someone answers my question. Did not know where to ask so I put it here because this is about the Gungnir. I'm going to upgrade my DAC from Modi 2 Uber. Maybe even the amp later. I'm torn between the Gungnir Multibit or the Bifrost Multibit. If I upgrade the amp I'm leaning toward the Lyr 2 LISST. So I really don't need balanced but the SQ is my main concern. It will take a little longer to get the Gungnir because it cost more but that is fine for me. Once I do the upgrades then this is it. The headphones I will be using is HE-400i. Just got them. I feel the DAC is important in the line or,most important because it translates the signal. From digital to analog. I want the best bang for my buck. I'm using the Magni 2 Uber for a amp right now. I have been over the specs of the amps on the website and the specs of the Magni to the other amps is pretty good. However, I know that specs do not always relate to sound. But still could not help to compare. So if the difference between the sound SQ between the Gungnir and Bifrost Multibits is my concern. Thank you. One note I have been all around the site here and did not see anything on this. Bifrost Uber yes but not the BM.


----------



## joeexp

Definitely get the Gumby, even if you have to wait longer.  The price difference is justified. I tried both and find that decision very easy. ...


----------



## nordkapp

Does anyone here have any real life experience with the Gungnir multi-bit vs. the Resonessence Labs Concero *HD? I own the Concero HD and am now considering the Gungnir MB. Any input is appreciated. Thanks.*


----------



## nordkapp

nordkapp said:


> Does anyone here have any real life experience with the Gungnir multi-bit vs. the Resonessence Labs Concero *HD? I own the Concero HD and am now considering the Gungnir MB. Any input is appreciated. Thanks.*


*
I have no intentions of parting ways however with the Concero HD as it does afford me DSD & DXD play back as well as portability. Just wondering about the gumbys sonic presentation.*


----------



## jimdandy

joeexp said:


> Definitely get the Gumby, even if you have to wait longer.  The price difference is justified. I tried both and find that decision very easy. ...


 

 Thank you for the reply. I'm really on the fence. Can you tell me if there is a difference between running balanced or unbalanced? Mjolnir 2 maybe too expensive for me to get.


----------



## joeexp

The issue isn't balanced or unbalanced - It's just that the Gumby is better on retrieving detail.
 However the Bimby is a fine machine and is a fantastic bargain if you want to venture in to the realm of R2R Dacs.


----------



## jimdandy

joeexp said:


> The issue isn't balanced or unbalanced - It's just that the Gumby is better on retrieving detail.
> However the Bimby is a fine machine and is a fantastic bargain if you want to venture in to the realm of R2R Dacs.


 

 LOL That is what I'm on the fence about. Schiit Audio puts quality into all the products and I like their ethic that is way I'm staying with them. I guess I don't fully understand R2R Dacs though. So the Bifrost Multibit is R2R and the Gungnir is not. Correct?


----------



## Ableza

It's easy.  If you can afford a Gungnir Multibit, get it.  If you can't, but you can afford a Bitfrost Multibit, then get that one.


----------



## jimdandy

ableza said:


> It's easy.  If you can afford a Gungnir Multibit, get it.  If you can't, but you can afford a Bitfrost Multibit, then get that one.


 

 Yes sir, I'm leaning toward the Gungnir just wanted a comparison of what they sound like so I might be able to save a little money. I have been all over the internet looking for comparisons on sound and I come up with one or the other but never really a comparison. I have read the differences on delta sigma compared to multibit and choose to go the multibit which seems to have more detail to the music. From what I have read. Just curious the sound between these two one from the other. It seems they my be pretty close to SQ. Tonal qualities maybe different.


----------



## RCBinTN

jimdandy said:


> LOL That is what I'm on the fence about. Schiit Audio puts quality into all the products and I like their ethic that is way I'm staying with them. I guess I don't fully understand R2R Dacs though. So the Bifrost Multibit is R2R and the Gungnir is not. Correct?


 
  
 The Gungnir has an upgrade from DS to R2R.  So you could have either.  The upgrade is, I think, around $500.  So the GMB winds up at about $1,250.  I owned the DS Gungnir and loved it, then I upgraded to the GMB.  It was the best decision I've made regarding my HP hobby.  The SQ is much better with the MB technology.  I haven't heard the BMB but there are very favorable reviews on this site.  One thing to remember, the BMB is SE only while the GMB has balanced capability.
  
 Hope this helps,
 RCB
  
 ps. Just checked the Schiit website, and the BMB is $599.  The GMB is indeed $1,249.  Just for comparison.


----------



## tjl5709

jimdandy said:


> Yes sir, I'm leaning toward the Gungnir just wanted a comparison of what they sound like so I might be able to save a little money. I have been all over the internet looking for comparisons on sound and I come up with one or the other but never really a comparison. I have read the differences on delta sigma compared to multibit and choose to go the multibit which seems to have more detail to the music. From what I have read. Just curious the sound between these two one from the other. It seems they my be pretty close to SQ. Tonal qualities maybe different.


 

 My take after spending lots of hours reading various posts came down to this (for me). The multibit platform was geared by Schiit to focus on the current redbook standard (typical CD's) and pull out as much info as possible and make it sound musical. The three DAC's share this focus. They each do it at different levels, and the levels are in regards to accuracy and details. The common comment you will hear or read about in each units thread is that they are easy and fun to listen to. Although I have not listened to the bimby ( I have the uber) , I did originally get the Gumby. It was such an amazing upgrade to me, that I have since moved on to yggy. I hear schiit in my old favorite CD's (FLAC files now) that I did not know was even there. It's a given that the redbook standard is obsolete in that there are much higher levels of quality of recordings that could be provided to consumers , but the implementation of them is limited. I have a few 24/96 samples myself, but 98% of what I have is redbook. There is allot (amazing amount) of information in that standard that this platform reveals. The revelation for me in moving to the multibit platform was in validating all the previous comments that I had read over the years about DAC's being second only to the headphone (speakers) in the audio chain in regards to impact on sound quality. I never wanted or understood the need to commit that much $$ to a piece of audio equipment that just "converted" digital information into analog. I just never understood this as well as I do now. My suggestion is to get the gumby as it has SE and balanced input/outputs and it will be a good foundation for you moving forward if your goal is to continue to grow and obtain higher quality sound. What ever you end up selecting, it will be a noticable move. (JMHO)


----------



## bigro

jimdandy said:


> Yes sir, I'm leaning toward the Gungnir just wanted a comparison of what they sound like so I might be able to save a little money. I have been all over the internet looking for comparisons on sound and I come up with one or the other but never really a comparison. I have read the differences on delta sigma compared to multibit and choose to go the multibit which seems to have more detail to the music. From what I have read. Just curious the sound between these two one from the other. It seems they my be pretty close to SQ. Tonal qualities maybe different.


 

 Some have said the Gumby and Bimby in SE mode sound similar. I cannot confirm or deny this. but here are a few posts that may help. I searched for his detailed comparison but could not find it. I have the Bimby because at this point there is no plans to going Balanced . From what I read some say that the Bimby and Gumby sound similar In and SE config with the gumby edging out in some details but in balanced mode the Gumby Grew its horns.. er I mean sprouted wings.
  
 Atomicbob has/ the Yggy, Bimby and Gumby.  Look through his posts, he has also done some great work taking measurements and posting them. He seems to really enjoy the Bimby.  The last I read Mike Moffat was using the Bimby and Vali 2 for one of his listening stations. (That's a great combo by the way.)
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/785367/bifrost-mb-technical-measurements
http://www.head-fi.org/t/785365/gungnir-mb-technical-measurements
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/785369/yggdrasil-gungnir-mb-bifrost-mb-a-terse-ribald-comparison#post_12015806
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/785369/yggdrasil-gungnir-mb-bifrost-mb-a-terse-ribald-comparison#post_12012998


----------



## jimdandy

Thanks to all of you really helps out. I had looked ALL OVER the net reading everything I could. Including the differences between DS and Multibit or R2R, as it is also called. The details and musical aspect of multibit is the reason why I want to upgrade. Also the reason I went with the headphones I did. Just did not have enough money to spend a grand on headphones then a grand on a dac. So I read all the reviews on here and decided to go with the 400i. As far as a dac I figured I would stick with something I know. I have had my Magni 2 U for almost 3 years using it off  my sound card then got the Modi 2 U. All I have done I have seen improvement. Improvement in detail and channel separation mostly but still improvement.  So when I read that a multibit dac brings even more out I figured I would take my tax refund and save a little and jump to the next level. Always wished for equipment like this when I was young but money seemed to slip through my fingers. Partying takes money when one is young and foolish. I think I will go ahead and get the Gungnir MB. Have to wait a little but it will be worth it. Rather do that than set and wonder what it would have sounded like. The quality of sound I have now is better than I have ever had. With speakers or headphones from the past. The 400i and M&M stack is like a open window compared to a closed window. I can't wait to here the Gungnir MB if it take things to another level. Wow.


----------



## jimdandy

bigro said:


> jimdandy said:
> 
> 
> > Yes sir, I'm leaning toward the Gungnir just wanted a comparison of what they sound like so I might be able to save a little money. I have been all over the internet looking for comparisons on sound and I come up with one or the other but never really a comparison. I have read the differences on delta sigma compared to multibit and choose to go the multibit which seems to have more detail to the music. From what I have read. Just curious the sound between these two one from the other. It seems they my be pretty close to SQ. Tonal qualities maybe different.
> ...


 

 Thanks I will read them. I have searched and read a lot. Just did not come up with these. Hard to find things sometimes. Even have done reading on other forums for information. Once again appreciate it. I will post what I think when I get it on here.


----------



## sheldaze

jimdandy said:


> Thanks to all of you really helps out. I had looked ALL OVER the net reading everything I could. Including the differences between DS and Multibit or R2R, as it is also called. The details and musical aspect of multibit is the reason why I want to upgrade. Also the reason I went with the headphones I did. Just did not have enough money to spend a grand on headphones then a grand on a dac. So I read all the reviews on here and decided to go with the 400i. As far as a dac I figured I would stick with something I know. I have had my Magni 2 U for almost 3 years using it off  my sound card then got the Modi 2 U. All I have done I have seen improvement. Improvement in detail and channel separation mostly but still improvement.  So when I read that a multibit dac brings even more out I figured I would take my tax refund and save a little and jump to the next level. Always wished for equipment like this when I was young but money seemed to slip through my fingers. Partying takes money when one is young and foolish. I think I will go ahead and get the Gungnir MB. Have to wait a little but it will be worth it. Rather do that than set and wonder what it would have sounded like. The quality of sound I have now is better than I have ever had. With speakers or headphones from the past. The 400i and M&M stack is like a open window compared to a closed window. I can't wait to here the Gungnir MB if it take things to another level. Wow.


 
 I do not feel you have to defend your choice of the 400i - it is an extremely scalable headphone. One of my favorite setups with it is:
  
 Gumby > Liquid Carbon > 400i
  
 With the foundation of the Gungnir MB and a good amplifier, this is second only to HE1K - at 10X the cost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Gungnir Multibit is a fantastic foundation! HiFiMan HE400i is a fantastic headphone! You will appreciate the multibit benefits with this setup.


----------



## mikoss

One thing that is really pissing me off about the Multibit Gungnir...
  
 In the last couple months of listening, I'm beginning to now hear how most of my music is compressed. 85% of what I listen to was released within the last 15 years or so, and a lot of it is mastered with little dynamic range. I've noticed it a lot more in vocals especially... it's a real downer. I enjoy the quality of presentation Gumby brings, but it's also very capable of exposing crappy recordings.
  
 I have no idea how/why these artists allow their music to sound the way it does on their albums. What is the point of butchering things this way? A lot of music I enjoy is acoustic... I feel for people who enjoy harder stuff as well.
  
 I can also appreciate 'audiophile' recordings, and it gives me the urge to collect well recorded/mastered, more natural sounding music, but on the other hand, I don't think an appreciation of music needs to solely be based on the technical aspects of the recording. This pisses me off immensely. Thanks Schiit.
  
 Also, it's not like my music has a DR of 4-6... I'm talking a DR of 7-10 or so...


----------



## ToTo Man

mikoss said:


> [size=xx-small]...I'm beginning to now hear how most of my music is compressed…..85% of what I listen to was released within the last 15 years or so, and a lot of it is mastered with little dynamic range…..it's a real downer[/size]…[size=x-small].What is the point of butchering things this way?[/size]…[size=x-small].This pisses me off immensely[/size]…[size=x-small]..[/size]


 
 Welcome to my world!...


----------



## DougD

mikoss said:


> One thing that is really pissing me off about the Multibit Gungnir...
> 
> In the last couple months of listening, I'm beginning to now hear how most of my music is compressed. 85% of what I listen to was released within the last 15 years or so, and a lot of it is mastered with little dynamic range. I've noticed it a lot more in vocals especially... it's a real downer. I enjoy the quality of presentation Gumby brings, but it's also very capable of exposing crappy recordings.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Maybe a soon-to-arrive Schiit product will include an adjustable de-compress controller, where volumes near some 0dB reference point are passed at 100%, but with lower incoming volumes, proportionately larger cuts in volume are made. Sounds easy in principle to non-EE me. (Almost everything seems simple, when you know next to nothing about it.)


----------



## DWbirdseye

Alcohol helps


----------



## acguitar84

gumby or yggi. Decisions...decisions...


----------



## Brubacca

Let me help you...
It is actually simple..

If you can afford it, buy Iggy.. If you can't afford Yggy get Gumby..

I love my Gumby, but if I had the funds I woukd have gone Yggy. 
Gumby is amazing. I have zero regrets about getting Gumby, but...


----------



## acguitar84

brubacca said:


> Let me help you...
> It is actually simple..
> 
> If you can afford it, buy Iggy.. If you can't afford Yggy get Gumby..
> ...


 
 I hear ya sir! I've got my heart set on Yggy, but having one of those wavering moments.


----------



## crazychile

acguitar84 said:


> brubacca said:
> 
> 
> > Let me help you...
> ...


 

 I've been in the same boat. I have the money for a Gumby, but  another ~2 mos. and Yggy should be mine. I can't tell you how many times I wavered back and forth thinking I should just go for instant gratification. I keep telling myself this:
  
 1. If I don't buy the Yggy It will always nag me as to how much better it could have gotten.
 2. Yggy is a steal at the price and probably gets you to 99% of the most expensive, esoteric DACs - that I would never buy even if I had the money.
 3. Any sweet future digital upgrades will likely hit the Yggy before the rest of the line.


----------



## US Blues

acguitar84 said:


> I hear ya sir! I've got my heart set on Yggy, but having one of those wavering moments.


 
  
 Stay strong Brother!


----------



## RCBinTN

I have a GMB and would love to own the Yggy but I don't have a dedicated listening space (yet).  It's quite big and heavy, while I can move the GMB around from storage to the listening area.  I know that's just my personal heartache but it may be relevant.  The Yggy does sound better - one day....


----------



## tjl5709

brubacca said:


> Let me help you...
> It is actually simple..
> 
> If you can afford it, buy Iggy.. If you can't afford Yggy get Gumby..
> ...


 

 +1
  
 I have stated it before, and I'll state it again. The Gumby was an eye openner for me in understanding the role of a good DAC in your chain. I now agree that DAC's are only second to the effect of a new set of cans on improving the sound. I rethought my inventory as I was going to keep my bifrost uber/Lyr2 after going gumby/MJ2. I'm now in the process of getting rid of the bifrost having moved to a yggy. My gumby is being paired with my lyr2. Yggy / MJ2 is wonderful. (not that gumby was bad mind you)
  
 Put the money in the DAC. Your old favorites will sound new agin. Really.


----------



## B-Dawk20

Hi guys, new to the club lol. I'm set to receive my Gumby tomorrow after I got overnight shipping haha. I guess I'll say a bit about how I got here.

A few months ago I did some radical changing to my inventory and bought an HE-500 (which I sold), a Q701, and later a Lyr 2. Then I got my LCD-2 and have been really satisfied with my setup but something was always off or dissatisfying and I realized it was my old Maverick D1 DAC/Amp combo. It was a decent deal at $200 back in 2010 and did the job but I now just knew it really couldnt keep up with my equipment.

I asked around and everyone talked me down from going in really hard and getting an Yggy or other 2K DACs and said just go for a Bifrost and other stuff around that price. Honestly I just wanted a DAC that stood up to my equipment now and what I'll be getting in the future.

Then I decided I'll just go somewhere in-between and get the Gumby so now I'm here! I am kinda glad I didnt go Yggy so I can spend that money on another pair of phones if I want or a new amp.


----------



## mikoss

Cool @B-Dawk20 - just a question... why use Winamp when you can use WinPlay3? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Enjoy Gumby... give it plenty of time to warm-up as well... the presentation changes quite a bit over the course of the first week.


----------



## B-Dawk20

mikoss said:


> Cool @B-Dawk20
> - just a question... why use Winamp when you can use WinPlay3?
> 
> Enjoy Gumby... give it plenty of time to warm-up as well... the presentation changes quite a bit over the course of the first week.




Hahaha way before my time! Well. Kinda lol. I do still use classic skin on winamp though. Gotta love that interface. I've gone through foobar, mediamonkey, and a few other players but nothing matches the simplicity and versatility of Winamp imo.


----------



## johndean

acguitar84 said:


> gumby or yggi. Decisions...decisions...


 
 Yggy is better. Is it 1k better .with out a doubt.


----------



## joeexp

Go buy the Gumby = 95% SQ if the Yggy, smaller Footprint, more euphonic sounding - fantastic price to value ratio.
 Most people would't not know the difference between the two DACS if somebody were to  sneak into their house and swap one for the other.
  
 If you already buy "the best" where will go from there ….
 So you still can dream of having something better one day.


----------



## johndean

joeexp said:


> Go buy the Gumby = 95% SQ if the Yggy, smaller Footprint, more euphonic sounding - fantastic price to value ratio.
> Most people would't not know the difference between the two DACS if somebody were to  sneak into their house and swap one for the other.
> 
> If you you already buy "the best" where will go from there ….
> ...



I completely disagree . I had the Gumby and Yggy on the same system for months . While the Gumby is very good , it is not at the Yggy level . I won't put a % on it but it is worth the 1 k additional cost . I sold my Gumby for another Yggy I felt so strong about it .


----------



## mikoss

joeexp said:


> Most people would't not know the difference between the two DACS if somebody were to  sneak into their house and swap one for the other.



Please feel free to come to my house and do this!


----------



## joeexp

johndean said:


> I completely disagree . I had the Gumby and Yggy on the same system for months . While the Gumby is very good , it is not at the Yggy level . I won't put a % on it but it is worth the 1 k additional cost . I sold my Gumby for another Yggy I felt so strong about it .


 

 Feel free to disagree.  I think differences in DACs are not as big as people would want to believe. I'd rather spend the 1K on better Headphones  or a better Amp. Would make make much more of a difference and sense.  Or go and buy a turntable!


----------



## joeexp

mikoss said:


> Please feel free to come to my house and do this!


 

 Careful what you wish for -


----------



## nordkapp

Or you guys could just go buy the Resonessence Labs Concero HD and call it a day. Just saying.....Lol.


----------



## johndean

joeexp said:


> Feel free to disagree.  I think differences in DACs are not as big as people would want to believe. I'd rather spend the 1K on better Headphones  or a better Amp. Would make make much more of a difference and sense.  Or go and buy a turntable!


 
 It depends on how resolving your equipment is . With Genelec monitors I could tell that the Yggy was a better dac than the Gumby which I also like a lot. 
  
 Oh, I won't be buying a turntable in my lifetime .


----------



## joeexp

johndean said:


> It depends on how resolving your equipment is . With Genelec monitors I could tell that the Yggy was a better dac than the Gumby which I also like a lot.
> 
> Oh, I won't be buying a turntable in my lifetime .


 
  
 I am not saying that the Yggy isn't better then the Gumby in certain areas. What I am saying is that it doesn't matter. Like they are going to send the Resolution-Police over - or what! 
  
 Ad Resonessence Labs Concero HD - no thank you - I'd rather stick a needle in my eye! LOL


----------



## nordkapp

joeexp said:


> I am not saying that the Yggy isn't better then the Gumby in certain areas. What I am saying is that it doesn't matter. Like they are going to send the Resolution-Police over - or what!
> 
> Ad Resonessence Labs Concero HD - no thank you - I'd rather stick a needle in my eye! LOL


Be my guest with that needle. Lighten up bro.


----------



## joeexp

nordkapp said:


> Be my guest with that needle. Lighten up bro.


 

 Never heard of i·ro·ny??


----------



## nordkapp

joeexp said:


> Never heard of [COLOR=222222]i·ro·ny??[/COLOR]


I am stalking this thread. Approximately 2 months away from a gungnir multibit. Since you obvously know each DAC well, and I already know which one you prefer, could you please explain to me why you like the gumby? I find the Concero HD to be the hands down the most accurate and resolving DAC I have owned. Really otherwordly on DSD too. I wholeheartedly agree with your rationale for purchasing an gungnir over the yaggdrasil. It's again another "law of diminishing returns" scenario as far as I am concerned. Is the MB much better than the delta sigma version?


----------



## joeexp

nordkapp said:


> I am stalking this thread. Approximately 2 months away from a gungnir multibit. Since you obvously know each DAC well, and I already know which one you prefer, could you please explain to me why you like the gumby? I find the Concero HD to be the hands down the most accurate and resolving DAC I have owned. Really otherwordly on DSD too. I wholeheartedly agree with your rationale for purchasing an gungnir over the yaggdrasil. It's again another "law of diminishing returns" scenario as far as I am concerned. Is the MB much better than the delta sigma version?


 

 I think it's got something to do with the 3d, almost holographic, presentation of Multibit DACs that I like. Even the Multibit Bifrost has this, so it's not necessarily  correlating to resolution. 
 Again, if you are happy with the Concero HD,  save the money and get better Amp/Headphone (They guys from InnerFidelity like the Concero very much!)
 At a certain level it is: Transducer>Amp>DAC with regards to influence on SoundQuality.
  
 The only  Problem is that Yggy and Gumby take about a week to properly warm up to sound their best and my Gumby just came back from repair ;-(


----------



## acguitar84

nordkapp said:


> I am stalking this thread. Approximately 2 months away from a gungnir multibit. Since you obvously know each DAC well, and I already know which one you prefer, could you please explain to me why you like the gumby? I find the Concero HD to be the hands down the most accurate and resolving DAC I have owned. Really otherwordly on DSD too. I wholeheartedly agree with your rationale for purchasing an gungnir over the yaggdrasil. It's again another "law of diminishing returns" scenario as far as I am concerned. Is the MB much better than the delta sigma version?


 
 I'm kind of in the same situation. I have a concero HD, and so far, I love the thing. It's wiped out the silly soundcards I was using before. BUT...I'm really interested in hearing/owning a yggi now. Just saving for it for now. I'm wondering just how much better it would be (than the concero). Would it be night and day? Heck, does the gumby sound better than the concero? Lots of questions.
  
 Knowing how I am, I can see myself getting a yggi. That's what I've got my heart set on now.


----------



## nordkapp

joeexp said:


> I think it's got something to do with the 3d, almost holographic, presentation of Multibit DACs that I like. Even the Multibit Bifrost has this, so it's not necessarily  correlating to resolution.
> Again, if you are happy with the Concero HD,  save the money and get better Amp/Headphone (They guys from InnerFidelity like the Concero very much!)
> At a certain level it is: Transducer>Amp>DAC with regards to influence on SoundQuality.
> 
> The only  Problem is that Yggy and Gumby take about a week to properly warm up to sound their best and my Gumby just came back from repair ;-(


My Bryston BHA-1 is my end game amp. Neutral and natural. Using the Beyerdynamic T1.2s now, which I am satisfied with but do know the planars in general could sound better. I am really torn about the gumby MB though. Knowing me I suspect I will give it a go.


----------



## nordkapp

acguitar84 said:


> I'm kind of in the same situation. I have a concero HD, and so far, I love the thing. It's wiped out the silly soundcards I was using before. BUT...I'm really interested in hearing/owning a yggi now. Just saving for it for now. I'm wondering just how much better it would be (than the concero). Would it be night and day? Heck, does the gumby sound better than the concero? Lots of questions.
> 
> Knowing how I am, I can see myself getting a yggi. That's what I've got my heart set on now.


Haha. Such a dilema we are in. One thing I know for sure is I will never part ways with my Concero HD. Especially since the software is always upgradable via FPGA and it has the DSD/DXD capability. Gumby MB will have to be very special to best that little black box.


----------



## B-Dawk20

Ugh a week of burn in? I unfortunately can only use my Gumby on the weekends as its home and I'm up at school all week. It'll be interesting to see the sound change over the course of what I guess will be a month @_@


----------



## joeexp

b-dawk20 said:


> Ugh a week of burn in? I unfortunately can only use my Gumby on the weekends as its home and I'm up at school all week. It'll be interesting to see the sound change over the course of what I guess will be a month @_@


 

 It's more of a warm-up then a burn in. Best not to switch the thing off!


----------



## B-Dawk20

joeexp said:


> It's more of a warm-up then a burn in. Best not to switch the thing off!




Ah I wouldn't trust it without me home or at least not without me home for a few days. Plus my room gets really warm and the Gungnir seems to run hot, just like every other Schiit product lol.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I'm attracted to the visual symmetry of GMB and MJ2, but I think I'm going to get a multifrost short term and then go straight for the Yggy when money permits...GMB seems great, but I'd rather go all-in.


----------



## crazychile

b-dawk20 said:


> joeexp said:
> 
> 
> > It's more of a warm-up then a burn in. Best not to switch the thing off!
> ...




Where did you get the idea that Schiit DACs run hot? The amps do, but the Modi and Bifrost I own stay at about room temp. I was under the impression that the Gungnir and Yggdrasil are about the same.


----------



## prismstorm

bosiemoncrieff said:


> I'm attracted to the visual symmetry of GMB and MJ2, but I think I'm going to get a multifrost short term and then go straight for the Yggy when money permits...GMB seems great, but I'd rather go all-in.


 
 I am also attracted (from all the pics on Schiit's site and press) to the symmetry of GMB and MJ2, aesthetically I think both looks the best in the whole Schiit lineup. They are the only ones that have the width to look the business without being overly tall and thick and heavy like the Yggy/Rag. The Yggy / Rag simply looks like an old XBOX to me, or an alienware computer. The GMB and MJ2 looks sleek when stacked together and seems to have matching dimensions and thickness. 
  
 However, the logical side of my brain tells me this is the wrong aspect to be focusing on. That SQ should come first and I should go for end game Yggy/Rag and not leave myself wondering what could have been, but I also favor the MJ2 over the Rag at this time because I don't have to drive speakers, and I do like the versatility of MJ2 as a hybrid tube / Solid State amp. And if I get the MJ2, I feel that I should pair it with its natural partner: the GMB... 
  
 Of course there are reports of the GMB sounding 90-95% of the Yggy while being even more euphonic and warm and musical, which is something I like over sheer analytical power, and that seems to be pushing me over the edge ... until I also come across posts that say the Yggy is definitely more resolving and detailed, and I am back to being indecisive. 
  
 The worst thing is I have no chance to hear any Schiit being overseas so I am buying blind here, really hope that with whatever I choose I would not have regrets.


----------



## B-Dawk20

crazychile said:


> Where did you get the idea that Schiit DACs run hot? The amps do, but the Modi and Bifrost I own stay at about room temp. I was under the impression that the Gungnir and Yggdrasil are about the same.




By feeling it? Now it may be exasperated by the Lyr 2 writing on top of it but its definitely way warmer than my D1.


----------



## joeexp

My Gumby get quite warm too. Nothing to worry though. Power Consumption 20W; that needs to go somewhere!


----------



## XenHeadFi

crazychile said:


> Where did you get the idea that Schiit DACs run hot? The amps do, but the Modi and Bifrost I own stay at about room temp. I was under the impression that the Gungnir and Yggdrasil are about the same.


 
 My Gumby runs between 90 F and 100 F measured using one of those IR thermometers. Definitely not room temperature, but not that hot, either. Ygg is in a much larger case. The Ygg thread has some thermal data in it...somewhere.


----------



## B-Dawk20

xenheadfi said:


> My Gumby runs between 90 F and 100 F measured using one of those IR thermometers. Definitely not room temperature, but not that hot, either. Ygg is in a much larger case. The Ygg thread has some thermal data in it...somewhere.




I'd say that's about where mine floats too if I had to estimate. It's not as hot as the Lyr that is for sure. The knob on the Lyr gets uncomfortable to touch after awhile lol.


----------



## mikoss

b-dawk20 said:


> I'd say that's about where mine floats too if I had to estimate. It's not as hot as the Lyr that is for sure. The knob on the Lyr gets uncomfortable to touch after awhile lol.


 
 If Gumby runs warm... Zana Deux is on fire. During warm up and also cool down, the 6C33C-B tubes actually make popping noises from the glass expanding and contracting.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

My Gumby is barely even warm. Right now it is in fact cool, and I haven't unplugged it in two months...
  
 I wonder if something is wrong with my power now.


----------



## joeexp

liu junyuan said:


> My Gumby is barely even warm. Right now it is in fact cool, and I haven't unplugged it in two months...
> 
> I wonder if something is wrong with my power now.


 

 That doesn't sound right - Are you sure you have  a  Gumby and are you sure it's switched on … LOL


----------



## gevorg

My Gumby runs from barely warm to somewhat hot, depending on room temps. Right now, room temp is about 65F and its barely warm to touch. Seems quite normal to me.


----------



## SuperDuke

b-dawk20 said:


> I'd say that's about where mine floats too if I had to estimate. It's not as hot as the Lyr that is for sure. The knob on the Lyr gets uncomfortable to touch after awhile lol.


 
 B-Dawk20  is that the Prism sound Lyr-2 you have?   How do you think it compares to the Gumby?  I just received the Gumby MB and am hesitant to state an impression w/ only a few hours on it.   I am hoping "Burn in" will change things.


----------



## B-Dawk20

superduke said:


> B-Dawk20  is that the Prism sound Lyr-2 you have?   How do you think it compares to the Gumby?  I just received the Gumby MB and am hesitant to state an impression w/ only a few hours on it.   I am hoping "Burn in" will change things.




Nope, I have the Schiit Lyr 2 amp.


----------



## SuperDuke

My mistake on the Lyr question-  This is my first piece of Schitt and now I realize you were talking about the Schitt Lyr and not the Prismsound Lyra 2 DAC.


----------



## joeexp

superduke said:


> B-Dawk20  is that the Prism sound Lyr-2 you have?   How do you think it compares to the Gumby?  I just received the Gumby MB and am hesitant to state an impression w/ only a few hours on it.   I am hoping "Burn in" will change things.


 

 Give it a few days. The sound changes quite a bit. It's on the treble harsh side in the beginning - mellows out a lot and the imaging improves ...


----------



## SuperDuke

Will give it some time and let it run around the clock.


----------



## thomascrown

Here a thermal pic I managed to get of my gungnir mb above my nad (both on)


----------



## B-Dawk20

Lawd


----------



## Ableza

41C is 105F.  That seems about right.


----------



## joeexp

The left-hand-side where the transformers are is hotter then the right-hand-side   -    which is to be expected. ...


----------



## zabzaf

Not to totally hijack this thread but I just returned from holiday to my wonderful Gumby/M2 combo and was wondering about aiming I know this group is knowledgable about. 

Let the hijack begin...I have been reading posts by baldr for some time now regarding anomalies found in the time domain on some DACs. While in California, it came to me while listening to my iPhone 6 Plus with my Momentums near the pool about identifying these anomalies. 

Here's my question (I searched the threads but couldn't identify a good answer...admittedly, I may have missed it), how does one identify these time domain problems when listening to digital music?

Any help is appreciated!


----------



## joeexp

Wrong Thread - There is a lot of information about the subject you want to know about elsewhere if you'd care to look for it. …..


----------



## zabzaf

Nevermind. I found it on an external site. Thanks for your help.....


----------



## mapletree

Did anyone make the mistake of ordering the wrong voltage like me?? 
 What did you guys do to fix the problem?


----------



## sheldaze

mapletree said:


> Did anyone make the mistake of ordering the wrong voltage like me??
> What did you guys do to fix the problem?


 
 Contact Schiit.
  
 No, I did not make that mistake. And there are no user-serviceable parts. You will need to work out an exchange through Schiit.


----------



## B-Dawk20

Good thing you live in the US I assume and it just didn't blow up lol.


----------



## thomascrown

you can buy an external voltage transformer and keep using your dac, but usually those things are bulky and rather smelly in the first days of use.


----------



## mikoss

thomascrown said:


> you can buy an external voltage transformer and keep using your dac, but usually those things are bulky and rather smelly in the first days of use.



So Gumby works on 50 and 60 Hz? The reason I ask is because I recommended going the step up or step down transformer route to others and never got a clear answer if it is built to work at either frequency...

I would recommend to ask Schiit about this. I imagine it's fine, as the AC is probably just going through a full wave bridge rectifier anyway and charging up a DC bus.


----------



## pavement714

Hey everyone, just wanted to say that I recently went from the Bimby to the Gumby for my HE1000 and it was absolutely worth the upgrade. I honestly wasn't expecting the upgrade to be as big as it was, as I loved the sound of the Bimby. It's the most "holographic", accurate sound I've ever gotten from a digital source into a pair of headphones. It's incredible, to be honest. Highly recommended.


----------



## DWbirdseye

pavement714 said:


> It's the most "holographic", accurate sound I've ever gotten from a digital source into a pair of headphones. It's incredible, to be honest. Highly recommended.


 
 ^ +++++


----------



## joeexp

I did exactly the same: Bimby>Gumby>Bliss
  
 Nothing wrong with the Bimby though!


----------



## theaterdesign

Wanted to share impressions, having taken delivery of the Gungnir Multibit just this Thursday! It went in my main 2.1 setup with MK Sound S-300 mains, MK X-10 sub, Wireworld interconnects with Parasound Halo pre/A-21 power amp fed by J River bit perfect WAV. Was previously using the onboard USB DAC in the P5 pre, which is a great DAC that we have enjoyed very resolving/musical results with, an amazing value to get that great of DA conversion in that nice pre and it has been enjoyed. 
  
 Unpacked Gungnir, downloaded USB drivers and installed per instructions- was painless and I had playback on the first try. Just went with the WASAPI that J River presented, as had gotten home late and just wanted to get it running for the "cook dinner" playlist. Had the same report as many others, Gungnir sounded good, but not mind-blowingly so: soundstage was immediately different dimensionally, vocals sounded great, detailed and the biggest immediate benefit heard was a tightening of the bass and an improved sense of rhythm/motion in the low end. It also sounded overly dense and a touch hard/brite/slightly strident/intense? A few times we commented among ourselves that it sounded correct, cymbals nice, we were wondering if we liked it better than the Parasound...........
  
 As the music listening progressed, you did have to admit the vinyl-ness others have talked about with this DAC, a song like the Stone's Brown Sugar that you maybe first heard on vinyl presented like that...... enjoyable! The big surprise was just from streaming an episode of Vikings on Roku via PCM stereo over optical though. It was a freaking amazing connected huge, huge, huge soundstage rich with spatial cues and scary good!! Left J River shuffling bits into Gungnir next 24 hr while sleeping, working etc, can't wait to get home!!
  
 Good 1st day, for my sensibilities/life and the price of this DAC, Gungnir MB will have to be very good to justify not taking advantage of Schiit's 15 day return window. But if it lives up somewhat to the legend many claim it to be, they will have me very gladly paying about twice what I would really want to spend in this area as an investment in enjoyment.....


----------



## nordkapp

theaterdesign said:


> Wanted to share impressions, having taken delivery of the Gungnir Multibit just this Thursday! It went in my main 2.1 setup with MK Sound S-300 mains, MK X-10 sub, Wireworld interconnects with Parasound Halo pre/A-21 power amp fed by J River bit perfect WAV. Was previously using the onboard USB DAC in the P5 pre, which is a great DAC that we have enjoyed very resolving/musical results with, an amazing value to get that great of DA conversion in that nice pre and it has been enjoyed.
> 
> Unpacked Gungnir, downloaded USB drivers and installed per instructions- was painless and I had playback on the first try. Just went with the WASAPI that J River presented, as had gotten home late and just wanted to get it running for the "cook dinner" playlist. Had the same report as many others, Gungnir sounded good, but not mind-blowingly so: soundstage was immediately different dimensionally, vocals sounded great, detailed and the biggest immediate benefit heard was a tightening of the bass and an improved sense of rhythm/motion in the low end. It also sounded overly dense and a touch hard/brite/slightly strident/intense? A few times we commented among ourselves that it sounded correct, cymbals nice, we were wondering if we liked it better than the Parasound...........
> 
> ...


A+++. Great stuff.


----------



## rnros

pavement714 said:


> It's the most "holographic", accurate sound I've ever gotten from a digital source into a pair of headphones. It's incredible, to be honest. Highly recommended.


 
 Oh yeah. Keeps me smiling. Makes you wonder about Yggy, but really, no rush.


----------



## mikoss

pavement714 said:


> Hey everyone, just wanted to say that I recently went from the Bimby to the Gumby for my HE1000 and it was absolutely worth the upgrade. I honestly wasn't expecting the upgrade to be as big as it was, as I loved the sound of the Bimby. *It's the most "holographic", accurate sound I've ever gotten from a digital source into a pair of headphones*. It's incredible, to be honest. Highly recommended.


 
 Just don't ever listen to the Yggdrasil and I'm sure that statement will remain true...


----------



## theveterans

Does Yggy's or Gumby's single ended output sound much better than Bimby's? Or Yggy and Gumby are not worth it unless all of analog chains are balanced? I could've gotten the Yggy, but decided to stay with SE since I like my AKG headphones a lot and I cannot use speakers due to volume constraints.


----------



## joeexp

theveterans said:


> Does Yggy's or Gumby's single ended output sound much better than Bimby's? Or Yggy and Gumby are not worth it unless all of analog chains are balanced? I could've gotten the Yggy, but decided to stay with SE since I like my AKG headphones a lot and I cannot use speakers due to volume constraints.


 
 Yggy/Gumby does sound better then the  Bimby. It doesn't matter what output you are using.
 The downside is that they take a long time to warm up to sound their best.


----------



## theaterdesign

DAY 2 Gungnir MB-
  
 I found other Head-Fi'ers commentary to be very helpful in the recent DAC upgrade decision, so am attempting to add to the discussion:
  
 Ah, day 2 sucked! Was supposed to be a home office day where there would be a few opportunities for critical listening while working with a quiet background. Instead I was onsite at a client's till late trying to fix the quirkiest network issues ever know to man! Could not wait to get home and hear some good Schiit!
  
 Got home, was at least a decent human being and said hi/hugged my beautiful wife before turning on the amps! That was hard as you have to walk right by the system as you walk in the door..................
  
 Immediately noticed a more balanced presentation, tons of detail and HUGE soundstage, the slight over-intensity/slight glare had burned away and music sounded very correct/accurate in the top to bottom spectrum. It is very musical, and dare I say analog/vinyl-like, even though I want to stop short of saying it sounds like a TT setup. Lesser recordings sound lesser as they are, but it's not really annoying/disappointing you just hear what they really did. No critical listening tonight, all listening was done with dinner cooking and the normal family background noise of all types. Comments from the fam when discussing: "You can really hear what the musicians are going for with this" I agree. The previously mentioned bass pace and tightening was even nicer, more cohesive.
  
 Then the TV, had plugged optical back into normal signal chain to see if anyone noticed. They did, it was still nice, warm, natural; the Parasound DAC is very listenable you know. Asked everyone if they wanted me to pause a sec and switch to Gungnir just to see? I did and the difference was amazing, my wife later commented, "It's really clear that is a significant improvement". I agree, we're mostly music listeners around here, don't even have cable as we hate the "programming" and the way Gungnir enhances the AV experience is an unexpected surprise.......
  
 Later as everyone is going to bed had a bit of time to work on things. Setup Gungnir for ASIO instead of WASAPI in J River as previous non-scientific testing showed that as the way to go. You could hear the difference immediately, some of the boldness had transformed to warmer, liquid musicality. That was listening quiet with people asleep + still quite a few background noise events from one person or another doing their life things. Looking forward to day 3 with a few opportunities to really listen with quiet background at more engaging levels.................... Seems like my experience mirrors others, that the Gungnir really does require a long burn in times. Can you tell that it is getting less and less likely that the Schiit boys will need to process a return from me???????????


----------



## theaterdesign

Gungnir MB Day 3, always on with music playback streaming 24/7 even if amps are off..........
  
 Engaging, spacious, musical. That's it, no more descriptors. The experience with this DAC and it's ability to deliver a fully engaging music experience on this system is truly beyond words on Day 3. I'll talk about a few observations, but really words cannot express! It is no longer that I have a really cool reference system that is very tactile. You just have music and you are there in it! And it takes you beyond the room, if you wanted a dangerous obsession.................... this is it. That is how dramatic the Gungnir MB experience is on a system that will deliver that resolution to the physical realm. So a few things:
  
 Mike and Jason's multibit theory- was very interesting to read/learn about and it made enough sense that it really made me curious as to how much of a point they had. I have done computer audio since my pro audio days in 1990, so have a fair amount of experience in the accurate handling of audio and how sometimes the smallest computer config setting can affect fidelity. What they say makes a lot of sense. Having now experienced their theories in action I must say: I can't F'ing believe how much detail, inner dynamics and musical information is present in the 44.1/16bit format when it is accurately retrieved and presented like this. Every song, regardless of genre, is a complete new experience unto itself. Haven't even played an HD track yet, 44.1 is so satisfying and I agree with others who have stated this. Glad the Schiit boys and others doing multibit are getting great reception and market penetration, I think that they are supporting the superior digital audio theory.
  
 The warm thing must be clarified: to read whole/organic/complete. IMO, Gungnir is not warm tonally as there is loads of pure high frequency detailed info. It just sounds right at this point. 
  
 Turned on the amp this AM to whatever was shuffling, was Black Sabbath listened for a second and hit skip. Next up Rush's LaVillaStrangiato, an old favorite for a Rush head like me. OMG, it was startling and I got a whole other perspective of how skilled of a bassist Geddy really is. That is one of the Gungnir's best qualities is the way it presents inner dynamics/pace, especially the detailed play between bass and drums in a way most have not gotten to hear.
  
 Jackson Browne- makes some great recordings and I was trying a few of his to get a greatly recorded grand piano sound to hear. Oddly enough, most of the tracks I played for a sec weren't the right choice and I ended up on Lives in the Balance, a very layered dynamic track with of course no grand! It sure put you there, and you could sure tell that it was a studio recording. The amount of detail and care and musicianship that went into this production + the skill level of the engineers to present like this was stunning! Fluid, layered audio-musical bliss! 
  
 Then I wanted to hear detail in a very dense soundscape, King Crimson's "Level 5" was a nearly overwhelming sonic landscape where the now un-missing inner detail really amazed at these boy's virtuosity and care in their arrangements.
  
 Next up: Man Needs A Maid/Heart of Gold from Neil Young's live at Massey Hall. Damn I am glad they released this record! It seems like a field recording done right, with nice hall ambiance and a magical performance. In the wandering, rambling intro I heard every word Neil said for the first time, which gave a cooler backstory to the tune that before had always escaped notice, you were just waiting for him to start to sing! The incredible dynamic context with detail that this performance was presented in is not something I will soon forget. Guess I have seen Neil Young live now after all!!
  
 Old and In The Way Title track from the self titled gem recorded on a 2 track Nagra. It's such a unique, honest and endearing performance and it was wonderful to hear it presented in the type of scale that made it seem even more like you were there! The revealed dynamics in the performance were all the more natural like I said, levels of detail + range I did not know 44.1/16 could do.
  
 Pink Floyd Welcome to the Machine. Well, if you like it, sounds cool as hell on almost any system. In this rendition I was treated to an inner-dynamic fest of detail I had never heard, including spoken word and musical parts I did not know were there.
  
 Still missing: experience of all the other genres, Mile Davis sextet era, more of some of the wonderful live recordings collected over the years, awesome fusion like DiMeola and Return to Forever, Classical and some ethnic stuff like Chieftains, etc. Well, this will be a fun assignment! 
  
 Oh, and the music emerging out of a black background thing others rave about? I agree, totally true and something to enjoy.
  
 Well clearly it only took three days to brainwash me into becoming a ridiculously gushing fanboy member of the Schiit cult! It will certainly not be a return to them: "You can take my Schiit when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands........boy".
  
 Seriously, I hope this rambling bunch of info is helpful to others researching just like other Head Fi'ers possibly more coherent and detailed postings is a great resource to me,
  
 I was originally going to go the used route and get a deal on a DS Gungnir and upgrade, but they sell really quick. I am very glad that I was "forced" to buy new, sprung for MB as well.  Thanks.


----------



## captblaze

I agree with not only your observations, but with your choice in music. I am running a Gumby/Rag combo and am amazed at how every detail of the music is presented to you and not just thrown at you. Some DACs have a harsh tone to them for my hearing and my current rig doesn't have that issue no matter which set of headphones I am listening with. I only have one curiosity... Can Yggy be an even better experience and will my aging ears even be able to tell?
  
 I think that question will have to wait until my headphone collection grows by a few. As for right now... the HD650 and 800S along with a set of LCD2s will suffice.
  
 thanks for the interesting take on your experience it seems to mirror mine in many ways
  
  
 Quote:


theaterdesign said:


> Seriously, I hope this rambling bunch of info is helpful to others researching just like other Head Fi'ers possibly more coherent and detailed postings is a great resource to me,
> 
> I was originally going to go the used route and get a deal on a DS Gungnir and upgrade, but they sell really quick. I am very glad that I was "forced" to buy new, sprung for MB as well.  Thanks.


----------



## theaterdesign

Thanks Captblaze-
  
 Yes I have wondered the same if should have just went no holds barred with Yggy. It's sort of weird how experiencing a presentation at this level of amazing on one hand makes you feel that you are at a suitable pinnacle of enjoyment forever and on the other hand you are still wondering "what would better be like??" Guess that's why they warn you to watch your wallet when you sign up for HeadFi!
  
 It's unbelievable to me, but in the days from the last post seems that we still have been noticing subtle/meaningful improvements from burn in still. Which doesn't seem possible, but I'll take it!! I totally agree: "music is presented to you, not thrown at you." And continue to be amazed at the level of detail/dynamics/musicality available at CD resolutions. A few of the first tracks added to library, non bit-perfect rips, are very disappointing.You could hear that easily before too but now the bad, interpolated math on those rips makes you wanna re-buy/re-rip important albums. Have a good one!


----------



## captblaze

theaterdesign said:


> A few of the first tracks added to library, non bit-perfect rips, are very disappointing.You could hear that easily before too but now the bad, interpolated math on those rips makes you wanna re-buy/re-rip important albums. Have a good one!


 
  
 I have been happily re ripping my entire CD collection as a result of Gumby exposing more detail in the music. I have been chasing an audio experience like this since I was a young man and now that technology has progressed my journey might possibly go from a chase to a long stop over until the next "eureka" moment in digital sound reproduction. As much as I want Yggy to round the system out, Gumby is going to do the heavy lifting for the near term and my budget is being pointed toward some more headphones.
  
 btw... if you haven't already, check out Beck's Mutations. The entire album is a mix of acoustic / psychedelic sounds with Beck's voice doing an occasional tremble. (I never noticed it before my current setup)


----------



## RCBinTN

Just wondering...
  
 If I connect my AK120ii via toslink into the GMB's optical input, will the digital signal from the AK simply pass through the Gumby to the amp, or will the Gumby transform the AK's input in some (magical) way?  I have the rig connected this way at the moment, and the SQ is really damn good!  Most of the time, I'm using my Macbook Pro as the digital source to the Gumby.
  
 The rig is:  AK120ii - AQ evergreen optical - GMB - BHA-1 - HD800
  
 The SQ seems to be better when connected this way.  Is there a chance that now the Mac apps aren't getting in the way of true digital bliss?
  
 @Baldr 
  
 Thank you -
 RCB


----------



## DougD

theaterdesign said:


> .... << snip snip >>
> 
> Old and In The Way Title track from the self titled gem recorded on a 2 track Nagra. It's such a unique, honest and endearing performance and it was wonderful to hear it presented in the type of scale that made it seem even more like you were there! The revealed dynamics in the performance were all the more natural like I said, levels of detail + range I did not know 44.1/16 could do.
> 
> ... << snip snip >>


 
  
 Well there's some music I have not listened to in a while!  Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## theaterdesign

Cool, I'll have to try the Beck, I also liked the delightfully weird "Midnite Vultures", some pretty humorous lyrics. It took me 3X re-ripping the music library to finally get bit perfect + WAV tagging to work right. The WAV tagging was a pain, but I wanted to know I was dealing with lossless files for certain, storage is cheap! I don't really want to throw this out there as it is very subjective, but when getting serious re-ripping, I tried FLAC vs WAV on my studio monitors and swore I heard an undesirable (to me) difference. I know that FLAC is technically lossless audio in a compressed container, guess I would rather be sure. WAV is what we always used for studio masters too.
  
 I just have a few albums with the originals lost that are non secure rips. Anymore, I don't keep the originals, just rip, copy over to a NAS drive for backup/Sonos and go trade in the CDs at the local record shop for more! Agree with you that right now we are enjoying a pinnacle in sound reproduction with digital, but also with transducers, preamp and power amps as well. There is some nice accurate equipment these days.


----------



## theaterdesign

Yep, Old and in the Way is cool and unique! One I have not been able to find is Kingfisher in a somewhat similar vein, a friend in school recorded that from vinyl for me and I really liked it back then. That TDK cassette is long since worn to nothing! Ahh, so much music, so little time without ambient noise to enjoy it properly!


----------



## theaterdesign

rcbintn said:


> Just wondering...
> 
> If I connect my AK120ii via toslink into the GMB's optical input, will the digital signal from the AK simply pass through the Gumby to the amp, or will the Gumby transform the AK's input in some (magical) way?  I have the rig connected this way at the moment, and the SQ is really damn good!  Most of the time, I'm using my Macbook Pro as the digital source to the Gumby.
> 
> ...


 
 I am not an expert on portable gear, but connecting via optical to Gumby would have Gumby doing the DA conversion, and I would guess it's a nicer DAC than the onboard one in your AK120ii............


----------



## 1800yolk

I'm nowhere near pulling the trigger on a dac, but this is sort of at the top of my list right now. A big part of me is saying, yo don't do it, this thing costs as much as your amp and headphones combined! but at the same time, the DAC is probably the most important piece in a complete audio setup. Also, having balanced outputs could end up saving me money in the long run, if i ever decide to pick up a balanced amp to pair with it.
  
 Setup so far:
 Gemtune APPJ PA1502A (will swap tubes after more research)
 Hifiman HE-400i
  
 Am I blowing up the golf course for the gopher, so to speak? Or is this actually a reasonable setup?
  
 related:


----------



## theveterans

1800yolk said:


> I'm nowhere near pulling the trigger on a dac, but this is sort of at the top of my list right now. A big part of me is saying, yo don't do it, this thing costs as much as your amp and headphones combined! but at the same time, the DAC is probably the most important piece in a complete audio setup. Also, having balanced outputs could end up saving me money in the long run, if i ever decide to pick up a balanced amp to pair with it.
> 
> Setup so far:
> Gemtune APPJ PA1502A (will swap tubes after more research)
> ...


 
  
 You also need an amp capable of keeping up with the performance of the Gumby and your speakers/headphones IMO so you get the best out of your Gumby as well.


----------



## sheldaze

1800yolk said:


> I'm nowhere near pulling the trigger on a dac, but this is sort of at the top of my list right now. A big part of me is saying, yo don't do it, this thing costs as much as your amp and headphones combined! but at the same time, the DAC is probably the most important piece in a complete audio setup. Also, having balanced outputs could end up saving me money in the long run, if i ever decide to pick up a balanced amp to pair with it.
> 
> Setup so far:
> Gemtune APPJ PA1502A (will swap tubes after more research)
> Hifiman HE-400i


 
 I agree with the post above that the entire chain, amplifier and all, is important. Below is a chain I like:
  
 Gungnir Multibit > Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon > HE-400i (balanced cables)
  
 Note that the headphone is $300 (when I purchased), the amplifier is $600, and the DAC is around $1200. But in my opinion, they make for a good match. I would not agree that the price tells the whole story in the components used in this chain. Meaning I do not feel that the goodness in the Gumby is lost in the HE-400i simply because it is an inexpensive headphone. It is a headphone that performs way above its expected capability, and is quite suitable to play with the Gumby.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

joeexp said:


> That doesn't sound right - Are you sure you have  a  Gumby and are you sure it's switched on … LOL




Yes. It is on and it is a Gumby. Right now, for instance, it is actually cool to touch, though I havent turned it off for several weeks. It seems to sound just fine though.


----------



## Ableza

Multibit DACs work best if you turn them on and leave them on.  No matter if you are using it or not.


----------



## joeexp

liu junyuan said:


> Yes. It is on and it is a Gumby. Right now, for instance, it is actually cool to touch, though I havent turned it off for several weeks. It seems to sound just fine though.


 
  
 This is very odd. My Gumby does get quite warm.  
 And so it should as there is a lot of electronics packed into some very tight space.
  
 The Bimby, that I used to have for 3 weeks on the other hand, did not get warm at all.


----------



## pavement714

sheldaze said:


> I agree with the post above that the entire chain, amplifier and all, is important. Below is a chain I like:
> 
> Gungnir Multibit > Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon > HE-400i (balanced cables)
> 
> Note that the headphone is $300 (when I purchased), the amplifier is $600, and the DAC is around $1200. But in my opinion, they make for a good match. I would not agree that the price tells the whole story in the components used in this chain. Meaning I do not feel that the goodness in the Gumby is lost in the HE-400i simply because it is an inexpensive headphone. It is a headphone that performs way above its expected capability, and is quite suitable to play with the Gumby.


 

 Absolutely agree. Before I sold my 400i for the 1000, I used it with the Bimby and it was an amazingly apparent upgrade. They really are powerhouse headphones for the price.


----------



## swspiers

sheldaze said:


> 1800yolk said:
> 
> 
> > I'm nowhere near pulling the trigger on a dac, but this is sort of at the top of my list right now. A big part of me is saying, yo don't do it, this thing costs as much as your amp and headphones combined! but at the same time, the DAC is probably the most important piece in a complete audio setup. Also, having balanced outputs could end up saving me money in the long run, if i ever decide to pick up a balanced amp to pair with it.
> ...




+1000 the 400i's have the chops to keep up with gear priced way out of their range.


----------



## B-Dawk20

swspiers said:


> +1000 the 400i's have the chops to keep up with gear priced way out of their range.


 
  
  
 You guys are making me get the itch to try out HiFiMAN again
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I sold my HE-500 because it just didn't stand out in my collection and got no head time, but everyone adores the 400i!


----------



## RCBinTN

Just adding a bit to the discussion about the impact of a good DAC in your rig...
  
 I had a nice rig and showed it off at meets:  D/S Gungnir - BHA-1 - LCD-X.  I thought the SQ was great.  Then, I upgraded the D/S Gungnir to the Gumby.  The upgrade made a world of difference to my rig's SQ, without changing any other components.  It literally made my music come alive.  
  
 I became convinced that the quality of the DAC is a very key component, maybe the most important component, in the overall SQ of the rig.
  
 I think this upgrade idea could apply to any rig.  The only negative I see - a better, more resolving, DAC could reveal flaws in your music source that you may not have heard before.  The SQ will become more reference, which I personally want and like.  If you are listening to compressed music, or lower-quality music files, you may have a different experience.  Therefore, YMMV.
  
 As a friend of mine once stated:  I have been, and will always be, a fan of the Schiit MB technology.  
  
 FWIW, my friends.
 RCBinTN


----------



## rnros

rcbintn said:


> I became convinced that the quality of the DAC is a very key component, maybe the most important component, in the overall SQ of the rig.




+1 Especially true with the Gumby.


----------



## Ableza

The transducers are the most important components of any audio chain.  For recorded playback of digital signals, there are three: the DAC changes the signal from digital to analog; the speaker (or headphone) changes the signal from electrical to mechanical; the brain interprets the signal from mechanical to neural impulses and perception.  I argue it's the last one, the brain, which has the largest impact.


----------



## DWbirdseye

rcbintn said:


> Just wondering...
> 
> If I connect my AK120ii via toslink into the GMB's optical input, will the digital signal from the AK simply pass through the Gumby to the amp, or will the Gumby transform the AK's input in some (magical) way?  I have the rig connected this way at the moment, and the SQ is really damn good!  Most of the time, I'm using my Macbook Pro as the digital source to the Gumby.
> 
> ...



The schiit dac is responsible for the conversion. I'm doing this with my dx100.


----------



## RCBinTN

ableza said:


> The transducers are the most important components of any audio chain.  For recorded playback of digital signals, there are three: the DAC changes the signal from digital to analog; the speaker (or headphone) changes the signal from electrical to mechanical; the brain interprets the signal from mechanical to neural impulses and perception.  I argue it's the last one, the brain, which has the largest impact.


 
  
 LOL, and for sure I agree.  An oft overlooked component is the listener's mood and audio ability (hearing effectiveness) - that stuff will certainly affect the experience.  Conditions like tinnitus, which we are recently discussing on the LCD-4 thread, can really affect the listener's experience. 
  
 Thx, @Ableza 
  
 Cheers -
 RCB


----------



## 1800yolk

ableza said:


> ...the brain interprets the signal from mechanical to neural impulses and perception.  I argue it's the last one, the brain, which has the largest impact.


 
 very true! part of why my favorite piece of audiophile equipment is my vape xD
 also, never ever going to a concert without earplugs
  
  


> Originally Posted by *RCBinTN* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I think this upgrade idea could apply to any rig.  The only negative I see - a better, more resolving, DAC could reveal flaws in your music source that you may not have heard before.  The SQ will become more reference, which I personally want and like.  If you are listening to compressed music, or lower-quality music files, you may have a different experience.  Therefore, YMMV.


 
 very true! cd/vinyl rips for life! though i do use spotify to explore new music.
  
  


sheldaze said:


> I agree with the post above that the entire chain, amplifier and all, is important. Below is a chain I like:
> 
> Gungnir Multibit > Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon > HE-400i (balanced cables)
> 
> Note that the headphone is $300 (when I purchased), the amplifier is $600, and the DAC is around $1200. But in my opinion, they make for a good match. I would not agree that the price tells the whole story in the components used in this chain. Meaning I do not feel that the goodness in the Gumby is lost in the HE-400i simply because it is an inexpensive headphone. It is a headphone that performs way above its expected capability, and is quite suitable to play with the Gumby.


 
 glad to hear the 400i's swing as hard as the fanboys in the 400i thread claim! and i agree that having a balanced amp is the way you should go when your dac has the hardware to go balanced. Which brings me to a few questions.
  
 scenario: i am interested in balanced audio
 my only question here is, i've seen people mention that it is better to use a S/PDIF cable to feed audio to your DAC as opposed to a USB cable, in order to reduce electrical interference. However, the S/PDIF input on the gumby wouldn't be balanced, nor would my sound card's output. So USB would prevail in this situation, correct? If I felt that the usb cable was interfering (which i honestly can't imagine happening with such a pricey piece of equipment), i wonder what i would have to do.
  
 other scenario: i am not interested in balanced audio
 this is the main thing i wanted to discuss. balanced audio might be something i love, but maybe i feel like it isn't something i need in the next five years. but i still would like a great dac with unbalanced output. Are there DACs out there that skimp on features but deliver the kind of sound I'd come to expect from the gumby? My guess is no, but if i'm wrong it could really save me some big money.
  
  


b-dawk20 said:


> You guys are making me get the itch to try out HiFiMAN again
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 everyone does adore them. allow me to preemptively welcome you back to the hifiman club xP
  
  
 My last thought in this monster post, is regarding the sale going on for the Vioelectric V800 V2 for $700 on massdrop: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/violectric-audio-dac-v800
 i've seen a few people compare it to the gungnir, saying it is less fun but more clarity, soundstage, detail.. but i don't think i've seen it compared to the gumby. i wonder how it stacks up to that?
  
 Thanks guys!


----------



## tjl5709

rcbintn said:


> LOL, and for sure I agree.  An oft overlooked component is the listener's mood and audio ability (hearing effectiveness) - that stuff will certainly affect the experience.  Conditions like tinnitus, which we are recently discussing on the LCD-4 thread, can really affect the listener's experience.
> 
> Thx, @Ableza
> 
> ...


 

 My music always seems to sound really good after a few malted beverages.


----------



## sheldaze

@1800yolk, I started to reply to your post. Then I realized I was quickly getting off topic, talking about balanced topologies and such unrelated to the Gungnir. Feel free to PM me if you have interest in direct answers.
  
 On topic answers - Schiit hardware is a good way to go balanced. You can enter the world of balanced at a reasonable price. However there is nothing wrong with the unbalanced outputs (both of them - it has two) from the Gungnir. I have used both Gungnir and Yggdrasil to feed sound to single-ended amplifiers, such as the DNA and MicroZOTL2. You could easily use the same unbalanced RCA connection between the Gungnir and the Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon - that is because the amplifier has an excellent internal conversion from unbalanced to balanced. However on the output from the Carbon, you should use the balanced connection because it is inherently a balanced amplifier and will lose both power and audio quality when using the 1/4" phono.
  
 You have no idea how tough it is to stay on topic - balanced is in the analog domain. Other than how the Gungnir uses the 4 chips internally to create a balanced signal, there really is no correlation in the digital domain to balanced. It is not that USB will provide a balanced signal - a digital signal is a digital signal, all the way to the DAC. You can use USB, S/PDIF, COAX, etc. This will in no way impact the ability of the Gungnir to generate a balanced output in the analog domain.


----------



## 1800yolk

sheldaze said:


> ...a balanced signal - a digital signal is a digital signal, all the way to the DAC. You can use USB, S/PDIF, COAX, etc. This will in no way impact the ability of the Gungnir to generate a balanced output in the analog domain.


 
 ok cool, i'm glad there wasn't anything weird with how that works. When I'm unfamiliar with how a setup will work, i create all kinds of possible scenarios for how it could work, so it is nice to have one less thing to worry about in my decision making process.
  
 Also, feel free to talk it up as far as balanced vs unbalanced go! my main point of bringing up the unbalanced thing, is if there is a comparable sounding DAC that is just missing features but saving me a considerable amount of money, i would at least like to consider it in my decision. I am researching around, hoping to get a feel for what is available so that i can answer that question myself as well. But I really like the idea of going balanced, even if i don't get the required amp and cables right away.


----------



## 1800yolk

> if there is a comparable sounding DAC that is just missing features but saving me a considerable amount of money, i would at least like to consider it in my decision. I am researching around, hoping to get a feel for what is available so that i can answer that question myself


 
  
 Such as the Anedio D1 DAC, for example, which sold on ebay for $350 yesterday. don't you love finding great listings a day late?
  
 I think my purchase may come down to finding the right used hardware, so I'll scour the sales threads here as well as ebay, and just research things as I come across them. Information overload ahoy!


----------



## rnros

ableza said:


> The transducers are the most important components of any audio chain.  For recorded playback of digital signals, there are three: the DAC changes the signal from digital to analog; the speaker (or headphone) changes the signal from electrical to mechanical; the brain interprets the signal from mechanical to neural impulses and perception.  I argue it's the last one, the brain, which has the largest impact.




I've been told I had " schiit for brains." I don't know if that's an audiophile advantage...


----------



## mikoss

1800yolk said:


> Such as the Anedio D1 DAC, for example, which sold on ebay for $350 yesterday. don't you love finding great listings a day late?
> 
> I think my purchase may come down to finding the right used hardware, so I'll scour the sales threads here as well as ebay, and just research things as I come across them. Information overload ahoy!



I would say that an R-2R DAC would be more comparable, at least in tonal presentation. The Sabre DACs seem to have a different way of illuminating details, which in my opinion sounds unnatural once you've had a chance to spend some time with a Multibit such as Gumby. 
As for features, honestly I think the only function a DAC requires is quite simple... Musical presentation. If another DAC has more outputs, a volume control, remote, coloured LEDs, isolating feet, etc BUT sounds inferior, I don't see the point in considering it. 

The DAC is there to convert your digital files into an analogue stream to your amp. It should be judged merely on how that stream sounds, at least in my opinion.


----------



## DougD

ableza said:


> The transducers are the most important components of any audio chain.  For recorded playback of digital signals, there are three: the DAC changes the signal from digital to analog; the speaker (or headphone) changes the signal from electrical to mechanical; the brain interprets the signal from mechanical to neural impulses and perception.  I argue it's the last one, the brain, which has the largest impact.


 
  
 Also, Transducer #3 aka The Brain stands in judgement of the other transducers in the chain.
  
 I came from the factory equipped with a medium-fi Transducer #3, which I have managed to keep from being upgraded significantly. This has saved me a lot of money over the years. (That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.) I have more money invested in tunes than in audio gear, or at least I think I do.


----------



## 1800yolk

mikoss said:


> If another DAC has more outputs, a volume control, remote, coloured LEDs, isolating feet, etc BUT sounds inferior, I don't see the point in considering it.


 
 i should have been more specific when mentioning features, what i really meant to say is balanced vs unbalanced. There is a lot of love for balanced headphones on these forums, and while it intrigues me, choosing a dac that performs as well (or nearly so) as the gumby or even just gungnir's unbalanced outputs, i imagine it will be considerably cheaper if it is missing the balanced hardware. a new contender has hit my research list, which is the Concero.
  
 my search continues!


----------



## mikoss

The Concero is yet another Sabre based DAC... IMO, same sh-- different pile.


----------



## nordkapp

mikoss said:


> The Concero is yet another Sabre based DAC... IMO, same sh-- different pile.


Opinions vary.


----------



## fperra

I love my Gungnir MB which I've only had for about a month, but I just ordered a Yaggdrasil so I may be selling the Gungnir soon if the Yaggi sounds a lot better. Or maybe I'll use it to bypass my Oppo 105 DAC.


----------



## mikoss

nordkapp said:


> Opinions vary.



If you prefer DS Sabre implementations, there are lots and lots and lots. For the sake of comparison, at least give the DAC a fighting chance and try an R-2R.


----------



## nordkapp

mikoss said:


> If you prefer DS Sabre implementations, there are lots and lots and lots. For the sake of comparison, at least give the DAC a fighting chance and try an R-2R.


True that.


----------



## 1800yolk

mikoss said:


> If you prefer DS Sabre implementations, there are lots and lots and lots. For the sake of comparison, at least give the DAC a fighting chance and try an R-2R.


 

 i've seen this term mentioned a few times, and know it has to do with how the dac was electrically implemented, but am not sure how to determine if a DAC is R-2R! Do they even use chips in their design?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## sheldaze

1800yolk said:


> i've seen this term mentioned a few times, and know it has to do with how the dac was electrically implemented, but am not sure how to determine if a DAC is R-2R! Do they even use chips in their design?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 R2R is not that common - you're not likely to accidentally purchase one. The Theta DACs are R2R, but you can only find those used. The higher end Schiit DACs can be R2R - Bifrost and Gungnir have R2R options and Yggdrasil is only R2R. There are a few options from AudioGD such as the DAC-19, Master 7 and Master 11. And the Metrum Acoustics Musette is R2R.
  
 I'm not sure there are more... (there likely are a few at much higher prices, outside of my budget so outside of my knowledge base too). But it just shows you how few options for R2R that are available.


----------



## lukeap69

MHDT Havana, Stockholm, Pagoda, Atlantis, Monarchy Audio NM24, Lite-DAC, and there are few more...


----------



## 1800yolk

sheldaze said:


> R2R is not that common - you're not likely to accidentally purchase one. The Theta DACs are R2R, but you can only find those used. The higher end Schiit DACs can be R2R - Bifrost and Gungnir have R2R options and Yggdrasil is only R2R. There are a few options from AudioGD such as the DAC-19, Master 7 and Master 11. And the Metrum Acoustics Musette is R2R.
> 
> I'm not sure there are more... (there likely are a few at much higher prices, outside of my budget so outside of my knowledge base too). But it just shows you how few options for R2R that are available.


 
  


lukeap69 said:


> MHDT Havana, Stockholm, Pagoda, Atlantis, Monarchy Audio NM24, Lite-DAC, and there are few more...


 
  
 very nice list! thanks guys. Also, when you say bitfrost and gungnir have r2r options, is that simply when you upgrade to multibit?


----------



## theveterans

> very nice list! thanks guys. Also, when you say bitfrost and gungnir have r2r options, is that simply when you upgrade to multibit?


 
  
 Yep. They use completely different DAC chip, I/V stage and filters. What remain the same are the power supply and source inputs.


----------



## earnmyturns

1800yolk said:


> very nice list! thanks guys. Also, when you say bitfrost and gungnir have r2r options, is that simply when you upgrade to multibit?


 
 You can buy Bifrost and Gungnir as delta-sigma ($399, $849) or multibit ($599, $1249). Also keep in mind that there are different approaches to dealing with the high-frequency noise from switching in a multibit (R2R) DAC. Schiit uses their own proprietary low-pass filter (nicknamed the "combo burrito filter") based on an exact solution of the relevant filter equations. Others use other techniques, including NOS (no-oversampling) which is simply not to filter and let downstream components, including your ears, do their own low-pass filtering (I guess that would work well if downstream components were all perfectly linear, but they won't quite be, so it's possible that the high-frequency noise passing through would contaminate the audible spectrum).


----------



## 1800yolk

earnmyturns said:


> You can buy Bifrost and Gungnir as delta-sigma ($399, $849) or multibit ($599, $1249). Also keep in mind that there are different approaches to dealing with the high-frequency noise from switching in a multibit (R2R) DAC. Schiit uses their own proprietary low-pass filter (nicknamed the "combo burrito filter") based on an exact solution of the relevant filter equations. Others use other techniques, including NOS (no-oversampling) which is simply not to filter and let downstream components, including your ears, do their own low-pass filtering (I guess that would work well if downstream components were all perfectly linear, but they won't quite be, so it's possible that the high-frequency noise passing through would contaminate the audible spectrum).


 
  
 this whole multibit vs delta sigma, & balanced vs unbalanced game has had me all over the internet this weekend. you guys have helped me a bunch with this decision. Yet it will still be wildly difficult to make!
  
 for about 24 more hours, the vioelectric v800 v2 will be on sale for $700. the bimby is $600.
  


sling5s said:


> Violectric V800 used to be the best Dac I owned, but now it's been replaced by the Bimby. This thing does everything right to my ears. Such a pleasure to listen to.
> Best $250 I spent. Sure, it makes me want to own the Yggy someday, but I could be easily happy with the Bimby.


 
  
 I've read a lot of review of both individually, so I know they are both unique from each other, and both great DACs. The big difference is that one is balanced and the other is not. I'm not set on just these two DACs, but if I want to go with the V800 now would be a good time to do it.
  
 So what I get to decide is whether or not the extra $500-600 is worth the upgrade to balanced (selling my current amp, getting new headphone cables, ~$500 balanced amp, and v800 price difference)
  
 suppose in both scenarios I decided to spring for a balanced amp. How big of a factor is the DAC being balanced when the amp is? does it defeat the purpose of going balanced? Do I need to go big with the Gumby to get a balanced DAC that can even make it worthwhile? or maybe going multibit will pay off more than my source being balanced, as sling5s discovered.
  
 the reading continues..


----------



## captblaze

1800yolk said:


> suppose in both scenarios I decided to spring for a balanced amp. How big of a factor is the DAC being balanced when the amp is? does it defeat the purpose of going balanced? Do I need to go big with the Gumby to get a balanced DAC that can even make it worthwhile? or maybe going multibit will pay off more than my source being balanced, as sling5s discovered.
> 
> the reading continues..


 
  
  
  
 I am relatively new to this, but will try and explain my understanding of the balanced vs SE topic...
  
 to have a true balanced chain, you want your DAC and amp to be balanced (and you want a high level output from your source also).
 the advantage a balanced rig has is that the output impedance is very low (example being my Ragnarok amp in balanced mode has an output impedance of <0.1 ohm / SE is 3.3 ohm). the lower the impedance the more energy that reaches your HP or speakers. which also allows you to have longer cable runs without loss.
  
 that being said... not all SE rigs bow to the feet of balanced ones. it is more of a what works with your ears proposition
  
 hope that was helpful


----------



## pavement714

At first when I got my Gumby I was a little upset my amp didn't have balanced output (Audeze Deckard), but I really don't think it makes much of a difference if your gear is relatively close to you. Use it if you have it, if not don't worry about it.


----------



## 1800yolk

so small update: i am not going with the vioelectric v800.. yet..
 today i was surprised to learn that i needed four new tires for my car. but also, back in january two v800s sold on ebay for less than $500. and with so many options out there that i still haven't explored, i think i should wait for something like that to pop along. The upside of this story, is that makes everyone's responses to my questions that much more valuable, so thanks again! hopefully when this is all said and done i can possibly be useful on the forums!


----------



## DougD

1800yolk said:


> so small update: i am not going with the vioelectric v800.. yet..
> today i was surprised to learn that i needed four new tires for my car.


 
  
 Here's an important lifestyle hint for all Head-Fi-ers: Never Ever NEVER EVER NEVER EVER NEVER speak the words "income tax refund" within earshot of your motor vehicle(s). They are jealous beasts, and they WILL spend it for you.
  
 Hope this vital information helps some of you, even if it's too late for 1800yolk.


----------



## artur9

dougd said:


> Here's an important lifestyle hint for all Head-Fi-ers: Never Ever NEVER EVER NEVER EVER NEVER speak the words "income tax refund" within earshot of your motor vehicle(s). They are jealous beasts, and they WILL spend it for you.


 
 Really any major appliance.  Durable goods hate my wallet.


----------



## Mediahound

So I've been turning my Gungnir MB off these days instead of leaving  it on all the time and happy to report, no degradation of audio quality. It seems to sound fine after an initial warm up of like 10 minutes each time I power it back up. I know the Yggy is different in this respect though.


----------



## B-Dawk20

mediahound said:


> So I've been turning my Gungnir MB off these days instead of leaving  it on all the time and happy to report, no degradation of audio quality. It seems to sound fine after an initial warm up of like 10 minutes each time I power it back up. I know the Yggy is different in this respect though.




I didn't even know it needed a warm-up haha


----------



## Mediahound

b-dawk20 said:


> I didn't even know it needed a warm-up haha


 

 There have been some who have said 'leave your DAC on all the time, never ever turn it off'.


----------



## Ableza

mediahound said:


> There have been some who have said 'leave your DAC on all the time, never ever turn it off'.


 
 Such as Mike Moffat, the designer.


----------



## Mediahound

ableza said:


> Such as Mike Moffat, the designer.


 

 He's only said that for the Yggy AFAIK.


----------



## sheldaze

mediahound said:


> He's only said that for the Yggy AFAIK.


 
 Quote from Moffat in post #6602 in the Rag and Yggy thread:


> I have never, but never, been exposed to any solid state D/A converter that did not benefit from leaving it on 24/7.  Period.  Either designed by me or anyone else.  Ever.  What is true is that delta sigma D/A converters seem to be less pronounced in those effects than multibit converters, they still benefit.
> Another aside:  the Theta D/A converters I built twenty to thirty-ish years ago seem to have less of this difference today.  I do not know why.  I only design(ed) them.


 
 That is not R2R versus D/A, or Yggy versus Gungnir versus Bifrost - it is solid state, period.


----------



## Mediahound

Well, even if it makes a difference leaving it on all the time, it's not one I can hear. Even if I could, it's not enough of a difference to waste 20 watts of electricity all the time, even when it's not being used. That just doesn't seem very responsible. 
  
 Also note, the YGGY manual states it will sound better when left on all the time, the Gungnir MB manual, says nothing about that.


----------



## SuperElf

mediahound said:


> So I've been turning my Gungnir MB off these days instead of leaving  it on all the time and happy to report, no degradation of audio quality. It seems to sound fine after an initial warm up of like 10 minutes each time I power it back up. I know the Yggy is different in this respect though.


 
  
 Nick T at Schiit Audio advised my yesterday that it is best to leave the Gungnir Multibit on all the time.


----------



## joeexp

The Yggy and the Gumby are very similar that way - >> need to be on all the time!


----------



## Mediahound

superelf said:


> Nick T at Schiit Audio advised my yesterday that it is best to leave the Gungnir Multibit on all the time.


 

 I would advise not to. Try it and see if you notice any difference at all between on all the time and  a 10 minute warm up. If you don't (I don't), then what's the point of wasting electricity?


----------



## sheldaze

mediahound said:


> I would advise not to. Try it and see if you notice any difference at all between on all the time and  a 10 minute warm up. If you don't (I don't), then what's the point of wasting electricity?


 
 I have nothing pressing coming up, and I planned to A/B compare some amplifiers this weekend. I'll accept your challenge, noting that it will take a day (go home, listen to warmed Gungnir, let it cool for a day, and listen again tomorrow).
  
 Now here's my personal history regarding both the Gungnir and Yggdrasil. When the Gungnir Multibit first arrived on my doorsteps, I immediately gave it a listen. It was excellent, to my ears - a significant upgrade from the Bifrost Uber I was using at the time. When the Yggdrasil came, later that same year, I too thought it was excellent. I was kinda thinking people were all wrong.
  
 Then late last year, both DACs were kept off for 2 weeks. I returned and tried to listen to the Yggdrasil. I was aghast at how terrible it sounded. I even had a friend, in town for just a short while. I would have loved to let him listen to the Yggy, but opted not to due to the sound. About 50 hours into warmup, it was listenable - meaning no guests would know. Then about 160 hours in, I heard something that told me the magic was back again.
  
 I feel that until I heard it, I did not know what I was listening for. That's me personally...and all opinions and perceptions here are equally valid.


----------



## DWbirdseye

mediahound said:


> So I've been turning my Gungnir MB off these days instead of leaving  it on all the time and happy to report, no degradation of audio quality. It seems to sound fine after an initial warm up of like 10 minutes each time I power it back up. I know the Yggy is different in this respect though.


 
 Good to know, I haven't turned mine off since January. I'll give it a try.


----------



## Mediahound

sheldaze said:


> I have nothing pressing coming up, and I planned to A/B compare some amplifiers this weekend. I'll accept your challenge, noting that it will take a day (go home, listen to warmed Gungnir, let it cool for a day, and listen again tomorrow).
> 
> Now here's my personal history regarding both the Gungnir and Yggdrasil. When the Gungnir Multibit first arrived on my doorsteps, I immediately gave it a listen. It was excellent, to my ears - a significant upgrade from the Bifrost Uber I was using at the time. When the Yggdrasil came, later that same year, I too thought it was excellent. I was kinda thinking people were all wrong.
> 
> ...


 

 I have tried this experiment myself. Each time when I turned the Gungnir MB off and then came back to it later, after just about 10 minutes of warm up, I was always pleasantly surprised that it did not appear to sound any different than when I left it on constantly. If there was a difference, it was not one I could perceive.


----------



## B-Dawk20

sheldaze said:


> I have nothing pressing coming up, and I planned to A/B compare some amplifiers this weekend. I'll accept your challenge, noting that it will take a day (go home, listen to warmed Gungnir, let it cool for a day, and listen again tomorrow).
> 
> Now here's my personal history regarding both the Gungnir and Yggdrasil. When the Gungnir Multibit first arrived on my doorsteps, I immediately gave it a listen. It was excellent, to my ears - a significant upgrade from the Bifrost Uber I was using at the time. When the Yggdrasil came, later that same year, I too thought it was excellent. I was kinda thinking people were all wrong.
> 
> ...




That might explain my experience last week. I'm gone during the weekdays so I can't listen to any of my equipment. I came back over the weekend and the sound was grainy to my ears for a night and I left it on and the next day it sounded like before! It was oddly surprising... I can't bring myself to leave it on all the time when I'm not there to at least see it once a day. Sometimes little kids go in my room and its annoying to have to make sure my stuff is safe!


----------



## captblaze

mediahound said:


> I have tried this experiment myself. Each time when I turned the Gungnir MB off and then came back to it later, after just about 10 minutes of warm up, I was always pleasantly surprised that it did not appear to sound any different than when I left it on constantly. If there was a difference, it was not one I could perceive.


 
  
  
 I'm game for a little experimentation also.... I just got a balanced cable for my HD650s and my HD 800S arrived also (although they probably need some time to loosen up)
  
 my chain will be pc(ac1150 onboard)>usb>Gumby>Rag with balanced input/output playing lossless wav from NAS
  
 my Gumby has been on a total of 14 days and the sound was spot on, although a quick listen with the balanced cable did give me an ear to ear grin. not to mention I was able to back off on the volume knob from 3 o'clock to 12:30


----------



## SuperElf

mediahound said:


> superelf said:
> 
> 
> > Nick T at Schiit Audio advised my yesterday that it is best to leave the Gungnir Multibit on all the time.
> ...


 
  
 So perhaps I will try that;  the Gungnir gets quite warm and does soak up 20 watts at all times if On.


----------



## Ableza

Just plug it in and leave it on.


----------



## mikoss

I'm not sure if you guys understand power, or how we are billed, but 20W on 24/7 for an entire year *might* cost you $20. The amount you're saving by turning off your DAC, then having to turn it back on and allow the components to reach thermal equilibrium is nearly inconsequential. We are literally talking about less than half an effing kilowatt hour per day. 
  
 http://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar-information/how-to-save-energy/power-table


----------



## Brubacca

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument. 



mikoss said:


> I'm not sure if you guys understand power, or how we are billed, but 20W on 24/7 for an entire year *might* cost you $20. The amount you're saving by turning off your DAC, then having to turn it back on and allow the components to reach thermal equilibrium is nearly inconsequential. We are literally talking about less than half an effing kilowatt hour per day.
> 
> http://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar-information/how-to-save-energy/power-table


----------



## Mediahound

mikoss said:


> I'm not sure if you guys understand power, or how we are billed, but 20W on 24/7 for an entire year *might* cost you $20. The amount you're saving by turning off your DAC, then having to turn it back on and allow the components to reach thermal equilibrium is nearly inconsequential. We are literally talking about less than half an effing kilowatt hour per day.
> 
> http://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar-information/how-to-save-energy/power-table


 

 Not sure how much you pay for electricity, but it's certainly more for me at .18c per kWH:
  
*wattage   **x**   hours used  **÷**  1000  **x**  price per kWh**  **=**   cost of electricity*


----------



## mikoss

mediahound said:


> Not sure how much you pay for electricity, but it's certainly more for me at .18c per kWH:
> 
> *wattage   *[COLOR=990000]*x*[/COLOR]*   hours used  *[COLOR=990000]*÷*[/COLOR]*  1000  *[COLOR=990000]*x*[/COLOR]*  price per kWh**  *[COLOR=990000]*=*[/COLOR]*   cost of electricity*



Uhh yes that was exactly my point. 
.02kW x 24 hrs/day x 365 days/year x .18 dollars/kWhr = $31.54/year. 

That is leaving the DAC on 24/7 and paying 18 cents/kWhr. Also FYI, the US national average is 12 cents/kWhr which works out to a measly $21.02/year. 

Honestly, you could do a thousand other things to save actual energy. This DAC barely consumes anything.


----------



## captblaze

leaving energy conservation aside, I am giving an extended listen tonight of as many different genres of music as time will allow. I am listening with my trusty HD 650s and my brand spanking new but in need of some loosening up 800S. Gumby has been thermally equalized for approximately 2 weeks and after tonight's session I will be switching her off and letting her cool down for part "B" of the great thermal equalization debate. I am trying to keep things simple and not vary the chain other than the headphones.
  
 obviously the HD 800S shouldn't give me too much in terms of stable sound, although I will admit the soundstage and resolution of the sound compared to the 650s is different (in a good way mind you). Gumby just seems to bring out the detail in my music collection in a way that other DACs I have listened to haven't. My best description has and will be that the sound seems presented to you where other DACs seem to throw sound at you.
  
 and even though my HD 650s seem warm and lush in terms of their overall sound I never got the same spacial goodness the HD 800S gives. I feel like I am listening to great sounding music with the 650s, but with the 800S I almost get the impression I am in the studio listening to a one take session.
  
 enough babbling... I have another hour or two (or three) of comparison listening to do before Gumby goes to sleep for an extended cool down.
  
 and for the energy conscious I plan on charging my power banks via solar charger to make up for the drain on the grid Gumby has caused
  
 part "B" may or not come tomorrow, but I will give a listen at power up and then at 10 minutes to see if the equilibrium thing is a long or short term proposition.


----------



## SuperElf

mikoss said:


> mediahound said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure how much you pay for electricity, but it's certainly more for me at .18c per kWH:
> ...


 
  
 I intend to leave my Gungnir MB switch 'On' for the time being.  Not only is this Schiit's recommendation but, as pointed out above, it isn't all that much electricity.
  
 As it, is I leave my ARC LS9 (solid state) preamp 'On' all the time;  it consumes at least 20 watts tool; (it doesn't even _have_ an On/Off switch).  Also, my Pass Labs amp consumes 30 watts in Stand-by mode.  The combination of the three is thus well under 100 watts.  BTW, I _do not_ leave my Pass amp 'On' -- it consumes 200 watts at idle which is a bit too much, although I tried to turn it on 30-60 minutes before I intend to listen.


----------



## Khragon

100w on for 24 hours is 2.4kwh per day which is 72kwh per month. At SCE 2nd tier rate of $0.20 per kwh you'll be paying around $15/m, not insignificant.


----------



## B-Dawk20

khragon said:


> 100w on for 24 hours is 2.4kwh per day which is 72kwh per month. At SCE 2nd tier rate of $0.20 per kwh you'll be paying around $15/m, not insignificant.




Save money, buy more headphones!


----------



## Ableza

khragon said:


> 100w on for 24 hours is 2.4kwh per day which is 72kwh per month. At SCE 2nd tier rate of $0.20 per kwh you'll be paying around $15/m, not insignificant.


 
 Why'd you jump to 100w?  The Gungnir consumes 20w.


----------



## SuperElf

khragon said:


> 100w on for 24 hours is 2.4kwh per day which is 72kwh per month. At SCE 2nd tier rate of $0.20 per kwh you'll be paying around $15/m, not insignificant.


 
  
 What is "significant" depends on the individual.
  
 I'm actually paying less than $0.20/kWh.  For 12 hours a day it's Cdn$0.083/kWh, the rest of the day between $0.128 and $0.175.


----------



## SuperElf

ableza said:


> khragon said:
> 
> 
> > 100w on for 24 hours is 2.4kwh per day which is 72kwh per month. At SCE 2nd tier rate of $0.20 per kwh you'll be paying around $15/m, not insignificant.
> ...


 
  
 ... Because in my post above I included my preamp and power amp in my stand-by power usage.


----------



## Ableza

superelf said:


> ... Because in my post above I included my preamp and power amp in my stand-by power usage.


 
 OK.  No one has suggested you shouldn't turn those off...


----------



## pavement714

I keep the Gumby on all the time and turn my amp and Wyrd off when not in use, just FYI


----------



## 1800yolk

i just ordered a bimby baby yeaahh! will be keeping it on 24/7. not for audio quality, but b/c my electric bill is included in my rent


----------



## gevorg

Looks like powering Gumby is a repeating theme of this thread. Yet, the solution is pretty simple for most, just keep it on.  

The difference of Gumby powered just for a few hours vs. several days is not as big as the difference you get by possibly improving the USB signal before it gets inside Gumby. The bus-powered USB CMedia board is Gumby's weakest link, not the fact that its best to keep it on all the time. Many other sensitive electronics need time to stabilize/etc, this is not unique to DACs.


----------



## sheldaze

So I must say that powering off for 24 hours, and back on for 15 minutes, I like the sound of the Gungnir Multibit. It plays to my personal taste for a euphoric, gleeful, stress-free nature of listening to music, on a Friday. Hey - I've been listening to the HD650 for over 10 years - I have the really dark version. It's my thing!
  
 Today however, I'm listening to a DNA Sonett and original HD800 headphones (same as I did last night just before powering down my Gungnir for a 24 hours rest). In short, this ship should be pretty tight. But all the pieces are jumbled all over the place. It's sort of a midrange, gooey mess, with some treble thrown into various places. And the bass is gone. I just cannot place anything, front to back on the stage. On the fourth song of my 5-song setlist as I type this, and the vocals get louder. But they never seem to move towards me. It reminds me a lot of when the multi-channel mixes that came out with the introduction of DVD-Audio and high resolution surround. The audio engineers would just place things anywhere they wanted, just because...
  
 There's some good sound in the middle, and there's stuff dancing all around it. The bass is just a complete mess...


----------



## captblaze

gevorg said:


> Looks like powering Gumby is a repeating theme of this thread. Yet, the solution is pretty simple for most, just keep it on.


 
  
  
 and now part "B" has commenced and I can tell you this... if I had to base my decision solely on listening to my very new and very tight 800 S then I would definitely keep Gumby on indefinitely. My HD 650s have closed in a bit, but nothing totally awful. the 800 S got real tinny sounding although the sound stage remained spacious and not as closed in as the 650s.
  
 Granted this is still in the first few minutes from allowing Gumby to go cold (well room temperature). Although I am skeptical that a 10 minute warm up is gonna smooth everything out to the way it was with Gumby having a good thermal equilibrium established.
  
 And yes this debate has been rehashed and yes the folks at Schiit Audio recommend you leave Gumby nice and warm all the time, but I wanted to do my own test to prove the theory for my own enjoyment... As always YMMV
  
 Update - the sound characteristics of either headphone hasn't changed after 20 + minutes. Myth Busted?
  
 Conclusion...  I'm gonna leave Gumby on from now on and make sure all my rechargeable items (power banks / cellphones etc.) get charged by the sun. That should balance out my carbon footprint


----------



## prismstorm

Notwithstanding all this talk on whether the GMB gets better by being on all the time, isn't being on all the time detrimental to the life span of all electronics? Just like any digital product, heat is a constant enemy, and it's not like the Gumby has a smart OS that does power management and offers fancy 'sleep' mode that preserves the longevity of the unit. Are we killing the life of the components by leaving the DAC perpetually on?


----------



## Mediahound

prismstorm said:


> Notwithstanding all this talk on whether the GMB gets better by being on all the time, isn't being on all the time detrimental to the life span of all electronics? Just like any digital product, heat is a constant enemy, and it's not like the Gumby has a smart OS that does power management and offers fancy 'sleep' mode that preserves the longevity of the unit. Are we killing the life of the components by leaving the DAC perpetually on?


 

 Actually I think the repeated heat up/cool down is worse for electronics than leaving on all the time. That said, you would likely not meat a MTBF for that in the lifetime of the product.


----------



## ToTo Man

prismstorm said:


> Notwithstanding all this talk on whether the GMB gets better by being on all the time, isn't being on all the time detrimental to the life span of all electronics? Just like any digital product, heat is a constant enemy, and it's not like the Gumby has a smart OS that does power management and offers fancy 'sleep' mode that preserves the longevity of the unit. Are we killing the life of the components by leaving the DAC perpetually on?


 
  
 An audio electronics engineer told me that leaving stuff powered on 24/7 will significantly shorten its life.  Capacitors etc that may last 10 to 20 years in normal use will need replaced much sooner.  
  
 I have gear that is pushing 40 years old and still going strong with all of its original stock internal parts, and I am certain this would not be the case if it had been run 24/7.  
  
 I suppose whether this is relevant to modern gear depends on how many years you are planning on keeping it, and/or whether you are confident you'll be able to source replacement internal parts for it when the time comes.


----------



## pavement714

toto man said:


> An audio electronics engineer told me that leaving stuff powered on 24/7 will significantly shorten its life.  Capacitors etc that may last 10 to 20 years in normal use will need replaced much sooner.
> 
> I have gear that is pushing 40 years old and still going strong with all of its original stock internal parts, and I am certain this would not be the case if it had been run 24/7.
> 
> I suppose whether this is relevant to modern gear depends on how many years you are planning on keeping it, and/or whether you are confident you'll be able to source replacement internal parts for it when the time comes.


 

 I've also heard on this forum of people owning hifi gear for decades that was left on and works great still. So who know really haha


----------



## SuperElf

toto man said:


> prismstorm said:
> 
> 
> > Notwithstanding all this talk on whether the GMB gets better by being on all the time, isn't being on all the time detrimental to the life span of all electronics? Just like any digital product, heat is a constant enemy, and it's not like the Gumby has a smart OS that does power management and offers fancy 'sleep' mode that preserves the longevity of the unit. Are we killing the life of the components by leaving the DAC perpetually on?
> ...


 
  
 That's the dilemma: what sound best vs. what is best for the electronics' life spans.
  
 I shut down my whole stereo system only when I'm going to be away 3+ days.  Don't know about my Gungnir MB, but my preamp and amp both state that it takes 24 hour after switching on before they attain an optimal state.  (In the case of my power amp, it means Off vs. Stand-by;  from full On (vs. Stand-by) it takes a hour before sound best.)
  
 I had a Phase Linear power amp for 22 years and it was still working OK.  I had the PS filter capacitors changed and it still sounded like ****.


----------



## SuperElf

gevorg said:


> Looks like powering Gumby is a repeating theme of this thread. Yet, the solution is pretty simple for most, just keep it on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 This is a good reason to get Schiit's Wyrd USB hub which cleans up the power going to the CMedia board.


----------



## Ableza

Yes, in my experience the "weak link" is not the USB receiver inside Gungnir, it is the USB sender it is connected to.  Wyrd helps immensely in removing the influence of that weak link.


----------



## ToTo Man

ableza said:


> Yes, in my experience the "weak link" is not the USB receiver inside Gungnir, it is the USB sender it is connected to.  Wyrd helps immensely in removing the influence of that weak link.


 
  
 Would this apply to a 2010 Mac Mini?  Someone recently posted that MacBook Pro USB ports provide cleaner audio signals than MacBook Air USB ports, and therefore that MBPs won't benefit from a USB decrappifier as much as MBAs will.  What about Mac Minis?


----------



## theveterans

> Yes, in my experience the "weak link" is not the USB receiver inside Gungnir, it is the USB sender it is connected to.  Wyrd helps immensely in removing the influence of that weak link.


 
  
 I saw a post before that the USB inputs for Bifrost and Gungnir are not powered by the DAC, but the USB source itself. That's one of the reasons I use a USB Decrapifier like Wyrd, but in my case, iFi iUSB.


----------



## Ableza

toto man said:


> Would this apply to a 2010 Mac Mini?  Someone recently posted that MacBook Pro USB ports provide cleaner audio signals than MacBook Air USB ports, and therefore that MBPs won't benefit from a USB decrappifier as much as MBAs will.  What about Mac Minis?


 
 I don't know.  But it's actually less about the USB audio signal and more about improving the DC power provided by the USB source.  Wyrd (or iFi Micro USBpower) does a good job of this.


----------



## gevorg

ableza said:


> Yes, in my experience the "weak link" is not the USB receiver inside Gungnir, it is the USB sender it is connected to.  Wyrd helps immensely in removing the influence of that weak link.




True, its just when majority of "senders" cannot provide a clean enough power and a stable enough signal for the sensitive DAC, it is the DAC that should be prepared to receive that "crap" and not rely on USB power, hence the "weakest link". For example, the Matrix X-Sabre has a better overall USB implementation than the CMedia USB in Gungnir, due to its more stable XMOS USB board that does not get much benefit from USB regen devices. With that said, USB was not even designed for audio, definitely not for hi-fi audio, USB audio is more like an add-on feature to USB protocol. For most DAC designers, USB is just another input that they can provide with the off-the-shelf board. This is one area where audiophile manufacturers need computer science engineers/etc. Or maybe USB should be abandoned for Ethernet, but that would still require computer science for the embedded Ethernet receiver.


----------



## nordkapp

gevorg said:


> True, its just when majority of "senders" cannot provide a clean enough power and a stable enough signal for the sensitive DAC, it is the DAC that should be prepared to receive that "crap" and not rely on USB power, hence the "weakest link". For example, the Matrix X-Sabre has a better overall USB implementation than the CMedia USB in Gungnir, due to its more stable XMOS USB board that does not get much benefit from USB regen devices. With that said, USB was not even designed for audio, definitely not for hi-fi audio, USB audio is more like an add-on feature to USB protocol. For most DAC designers, USB is just another input that they can provide with the off-the-shelf board. This is one area where audiophile manufacturers need computer science engineers/etc. Or maybe USB should be abandoned for Ethernet, but that would still require computer science for the embedded Ethernet receiver.


HDMI (I2S).....DAC manufacturers need to follow the likes of PS Audio and a few others already implementing this protocol.


----------



## captblaze

Well Gumby never ceases to amaze me. Since my main amp is a Ragnarok I decided to add some speakers to the chain. Space in my listening / computer area is limited, so I decided on 5" class bookshelf speakers. My choice ended up being a pair of Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary Editions. Connecting them to Rags is a set of Nakamichi OFC speaker cables.
  
 I am sitting at my desk listening to Keith Jarret and his band play for me. No I literally feel like they are in the room in front of me playing for my enjoyment. I attribute that impression mostly to how Gumby places the instruments exactly where you would expect them to be. Spatially and tonally spot on. Granted the entire chain pushes the sound to this level, but without Gumby the spaciousness and balance wouldn't be there to the same extent. I contemplated the eventual up grade to Yggy, but for now until the fine folks at Schiit Audio take it to the next level I will keep my rig as is... Well I was thinking about getting an iFi micro usb 3.0 (what's another $400, right?)
  
  
 PC Lossless WAV> JRiver USB Wasapi> Gumby balanced out> Ragnarok >Dentons (or HD800S / HD650 balanced)
  
  
 if you have a similar rig and are looking for some very good bookshelf speakers that make more sound than you would think looking at them.I recommend you give these a listen


----------



## nordkapp

captblaze said:


> Well Gumby never ceases to amaze me. Since my main amp is a Ragnarok I decided to add some speakers to the chain. Space in my listening / computer area is limited, so I decided on 5" class bookshelf speakers. My choice ended up being a pair of Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary Editions. Connecting them to Rags is a set of Nakamichi OFC speaker cables.
> 
> I am sitting at my desk listening to Keith Jarret and his band play for me. No I literally feel like they are in the room in front of me playing for my enjoyment. I attribute that impression mostly to how Gumby places the instruments exactly where you would expect them to be. Spatially and tonally spot on. Granted the entire chain pushes the sound to this level, but without Gumby the spaciousness and balance wouldn't be there to the same extent. I contemplated the eventual up grade to Yggy, but for now until the fine folks at Schiit Audio take it to the next level I will keep my rig as is... Well I was thinking about getting an iFi micro usb 3.0 (what's another $400, right?)
> 
> ...


Photos *please*, I'm begging!


----------



## mikoss

Love Gumby with my speaker setup as well. I use PMC Twenty.21 bookshelves, on mass loaded stands. Gumby was a huge improvement and I would definitely recommend it to folks using speakers exclusively.


----------



## vocalstrance

If USB has a power issue, is there a board or modification available for a full size computer, to put more clean power into the USB before it ever leaves the computer? Or is that another whole new can of worms?


----------



## Mediahound

vocalstrance said:


> If USB has a power issue, is there a board or modification available for a full size computer, to put more clean power into the USB before it ever leaves the computer? Or is that another whole new can of worms?


 
  
 There may be other internal USB cards which perform better than what you have. It may not be worth fooling with versus just getting a Schiit Wyrd and calling it done however.


----------



## gefski

vocalstrance said:


> If USB has a power issue, is there a board or modification available for a full size computer, to put more clean power into the USB before it ever leaves the computer? Or is that another whole new can of worms?




It's a good idea to have your usb audio on it's own port, "not sharing" with other devices. Here's my iMac showing the bel canto interface by itself. I mark the port so whatever device, Yggy, Wyrd, etc. is easy to connect.

Haven't A/B'd the different ports, so IMOYMMV.


----------



## Ableza

There are internal USB cards with performance that far exceeds a standard motherboard output. Check SOTM. But it costs far more than adding a Wyrd.


----------



## tjl5709

ableza said:


> There are internal USB cards with performance that far exceeds a standard motherboard output. Check SOTM. But it costs far more than adding a Wyrd.


 

 Can you name a few to search out?


----------



## Ableza

The SOtM tX-USBexp Card is the one I know about. Sold by Sonore.


----------



## vocalstrance

The SOtM looks like a good way to power up the original source from my pc.
Has anyone used this?
Thank you Ableza


----------



## gevorg

I use Regen + SOtM PCI card for my Gumby. It seems that they're redundant and if I had to choose one, I would probably take the Regen since it gives more flexibility (i.e. I can use Apple's CCK with Regen to connect Gumby to iPhone/iPad). I bought the SOtM card used, but for its retail price you can get the recently released Intona USB which adds galvanic isolation that the Regen/SOtM/Wyrd/etc do not have at this point. No idea how/if galvanic isolation would improve Gumby, but at least its not a What device like AQ JitterBug.

Also, if even Wyrd is pricey for your system, you can just get a standard PCI USB card. Those go for around $20 and give your DAC an independent USB port with its own controller. Example. At the very least, it should get rid of most/all USB issues that you may have like slow responsiveness of media players on play/stop/seek, and any pops or crackling noises during playback. Those are usually signs of an unstable USB port and/or interaction with other USB devices on the same controller.


----------



## captblaze

one last revisit of the always on or not debate.
  
 in an effort to protect my investment an maybe prolong the life of my Gumby, I was shutting her down after every listening session since the weekend. Tonight I powered everything up in an effort to relax to some Gumby supplied audible bliss. Well long story short it took at least 3 hours for bliss to return and it got me thinking...
  
 I have a 5 year warranty on this gear, why the heck am I worried about popping a capacitor because I am leaving it powered on 24/7? I can almost with 100% certainty guarantee that 5 years from now I will be about 3.5 to 4 years into my Yggy warranty period. That being said i don't plan on powering down my precious Gumby unless i am gone from the house for an extended period of time.
  
 I personally don't have 3 hours to waste waiting for the blissful audio to return during every listening session. Either way Gumby will stay warm and toasty and ready to relax me when needed and not scratch and grind on me like she has because I didn't keep her in the state she loves most.
  
 and yes I am crazy enough to be talking about an inanimate object in the 3rd person and like she is a member of the family


----------



## crazychile

captblaze said:


> I have a 5 year warranty on this gear, why the heck am I worried about popping a capacitor because I am leaving it powered on 24/7?........


 
  
 Yes. THANK YOU! It seems like everyone forgets this.
  
 Maybe you spend an extra $30 a year on your power bill...Most people spend a lot more than that on sound tweaks of questionable legitimacy. $30 is nothing in this hobby.
 Maybe your DAC only lasts 99 months before it needs a repair instead of 101 months.  Who cares? you'll probably want some shiny new toy before then anyway.
  
 Just leave the damn thing on and forget it!


----------



## crazychile

captblaze said:


> I personally don't have 3 hours to waste waiting for the blissful audio to return during every listening session. Either way Gumby will stay warm and toasty and ready to relax me when needed and not scratch and grind on me like she has because I didn't keep her in the state she loves most.


 
 Right. You buy something nice so you can actually enjoy it.
  
 I could probably make my refrigerator last a few years longer if I only ran it for 2 hrs a day...but that sorta defeats the purpose of having a refrigerator.
  
 ...not sure why I just thought of that but it seemed to be applicable.


----------



## Baldr

captblaze said:


> and yes I am crazy enough to be talking about an inanimate object in the 3rd person and like she is a member of the family


 
 Worry not!  You haven't a given name for her yet!


----------



## nordkapp

crazychile said:


> Right. You buy something nice so you can actually enjoy it.
> 
> I could probably make my refrigerator last a few years longer if I only ran it for 2 hrs a day...but that sorta defeats the purpose of having a refrigerator.
> 
> ...not sure why I just thought of that but it seemed to be applicable.


 
 LOL. Love the Avatar too......


----------



## captblaze

baldr said:


> Worry not!  You haven't a given name for her yet!


 
  
 only out of love and respect for my very understanding wife (my audio habit enabler)


----------



## AudioBear

crazychile said:


> Yes. THANK YOU! It seems like everyone forgets this.
> 
> Maybe you spend an extra $30 a year on your power bill...Most people spend a lot more than that on sound tweaks of questionable legitimacy. $30 is nothing in this hobby.
> Maybe your DAC only lasts 99 months before it needs a repair instead of 101 months.  Who cares? you'll probably want some shiny new toy before then anyway.
> ...


 

 The turn-on surge is more likely to do damage than leaving it on.  So maybe there is a tiny bit more aging on a capacitor but the chances of blowing a semi-conductor are lower for a solid state device if it's left on all the time.  Choose your poison.  I leave Gumby on 24/7.


----------



## RCBinTN

Hi All,
 Check my profile / signature for equipment used.  After adding the Kimber Kables to the rig, I'm ready to put my stack up against the Yggy/Rag.
  
 Visit the Nashville meet on April 9 to hear it for yourself.  
  
 Cheers,
 RCB


----------



## captblaze

rcbintn said:


> Hi All,
> Check my profile / signature for equipment used.  After adding the Kimber Kables to the rig, I'm ready to put my stack up against the Yggy/Rag.
> 
> Visit the Nashville meet on April 9 to hear it for yourself.
> ...


 
  
  
 I wont be anywhere near Nashville anytime soon, but am interested in Kimber Kables. Which ones did you purchase and what lengths are they? I was thinking about getting the KS-1116 low noise models, but would accept a recommendation if you have a set of balanced already


----------



## RCBinTN

captblaze said:


> I wont be anywhere near Nashville anytime soon, but am interested in Kimber Kables. Which ones did you purchase and what lengths are they? I was thinking about getting the KS-1116 low noise models, but would accept a recommendation if you have a set of balanced already


 
 They are the PK14 base power cables.  I bought one 5' and two 10'.  The 5' cable is from the wall, into an AQ mini power strip, then the 10' cables lead to my amp and DAC.  Here are the links:
  
 http://www.kimber.com/products/base/
 http://www.audioquest.com/iec-power-adaptors/iec3us-power-strip
  
 I don't have any experience with the KS-1116 low noise cables, sorry.
  
 Cheers,
 RCB


----------



## nordkapp

rcbintn said:


> Hi All,
> Check my profile / signature for equipment used.  After adding the Kimber Kables to the rig, I'm ready to put my stack up against the Yggy/Rag.
> 
> Visit the Nashville meet on April 9 to hear it for yourself.
> ...


Are you running your phones bal. out through the BHA1 or TRS jack?


----------



## reddog

rcbintn said:


> Hi All,
> Check my profile / signature for equipment used.  After adding the Kimber Kables to the rig, I'm ready to put my stack up against the Yggy/Rag.
> 
> Visit the Nashville meet on April 9 to hear it for yourself.
> ...



Your rig sounds very nice, I would love to hear it. I wish I could go to the meet, but being sick sucked up my disposable income. I hope you folk have a great meet.


----------



## RCBinTN

reddog said:


> Your rig sounds very nice, I would love to hear it. I wish I could go to the meet, but being sick sucked up my disposable income. I hope you folk have a great meet.


 
 Too bad...was looking forward to meeting you!


----------



## RCBinTN

nordkapp said:


> Are you running your phones bal. out through the BHA1 or TRS jack?


 
 Balanced all the way - between DAC and amp, and out to the HP's.  Using the stereo 4-pin XLR output for the HP's.


----------



## nordkapp

rcbintn said:


> Balanced all the way - between DAC and amp, and out to the HP's.  Using the stereo 4-pin XLR output for the HP's.


 
 Me too (bal. out, 4 pin to phones). Do you like the sound better through the 4 pin? I am presently entangled in a gruesome debate right now over this subject on the 
 Beyerdynamic T1.2 thread. Just asking for your unbiased opinion.


----------



## RCBinTN

nordkapp said:


> Me too (bal. out, 4 pin to phones). Do you like the sound better through the 4 pin? I am presently entangled in a gruesome debate right now over this subject on the
> Beyerdynamic T1.2 thread. Just asking for your unbiased opinion.


 
 I never use SE connections for my HP's, but have both stereo 4-pin XLR and dual mono 3-pin XLR headphone cables.  Can't tell any difference between them.


----------



## schneller

Has anyone compared the Gumby using something like the Uptone Regen or Intona USB Isolator and compared with the stock Yiggy? I am curious how close an improved USB signal path would bring the Gumby to the Yiggy.


----------



## captblaze

schneller said:


> Has anyone compared the Gumby using something like the Uptone Regen or Intona USB Isolator and compared with the stock Yiggy? I am curious how close an improved USB signal path would bring the Gumby to the Yiggy.


 
  
 I have no comparison to Yggy, but since adding an i-Fi micro usb 3.0 w/mercury cable I have noticed an improvement in the sound characteristics of Gumby. Sound stage is wider, background a bit darker and tonal improvements in lower frequencies. the improvements are with both speaker and headphones...
  
 to be honest, the way my rig sounds now, I am gonna save up for when Yggy gets her first hardware upgrade and enjoy what I am currently running


----------



## Sam Lord

captblaze said:


> ...in an effort to protect my investment an maybe prolong the life of my Gumby, I was shutting her down after every listening session since the weekend... ...why the heck am I worried about popping a capacitor because I am leaving it powered on 24/7?


 
  
 Glad to hear that sanity prevailed.  Just keep the thing cool, lots of room above, *below*, and on the sides.  That's the proper way to give it a long life.  Sadly there are no silent fans, i.e. inaudible from 5 meters.  It'll probably last 15+ years that way unless a surge kills it.


----------



## prismstorm

sam lord said:


> Glad to hear that sanity prevailed.  Just keep the thing cool, lots of room above, *below*, and on the sides.  That's the proper way to give it a long life.  Sadly there are no silent fans, i.e. inaudible from 5 meters.  It'll probably last 15+ years that way unless a surge kills it.


 lots of room above? Doesn't that preclude stacking a Mjolnir 2 right on top of it?


----------



## Mediahound

sam lord said:


> Glad to hear that sanity prevailed.  Just keep the thing cool, lots of room above, *below*, and on the sides.  That's the proper way to give it a long life.  Sadly there are no silent fans, i.e. inaudible from 5 meters.  It'll probably last 15+ years that way unless a surge kills it.


 
  
  


prismstorm said:


> lots of room above? Doesn't that preclude stacking a Mjolnir 2 right on top of it?


 

 If stacking were not okay, I doubt Schiit would show it that way:


----------



## Sam Lord

prismstorm said:


> lots of room above? Doesn't that preclude stacking a Mjolnir 2 right on top of it?


 
  
 Yes.  You *can* stack, but your gear will likely have a shorter life.  Electrolytic caps are normally the most vulnerable parts, but semiconductors without adequate heatsinking can fail sooner.
  


> Originally Posted by *Mediahound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> If stacking were not okay, I doubt Schiit would show it that way:


 
  
 I haven't read Schiit's brochures (other than the Bifrost's a while back), but I expect they recommend you not stack any of their gear.  Unless gear dissipates *very* little power, many times less than these components, it should not be stacked.  Lots of companies use poor practices in advertising.  Avoiding stacking is simply good practice.  But hey, if you are determined to stack, vertically separate the gear as much as possible.  Think about the airflow: if you tilt gear a few degrees it can help convection a lot.  Looks funny though.


----------



## earnmyturns

sam lord said:


> I haven't read Schiit's brochures (other than the Bifrost's a while back), but I expect they recommend you not stack any of their gear.


 
 Not quite. I asked them explicitly when I got Bifrost + Asgard 2 and the answer was that stacking the amp on top of the DAC was fine with the provided "feet" (rubber separators).


----------



## Sam Lord

earnmyturns said:


> Not quite. I asked them explicitly when I got Bifrost + Asgard 2 and the answer was that stacking the amp on top of the DAC was fine with the provided "feet" (rubber separators).


 
  
 Sure.  And the Bifrost manual says:
  
 "3. Assure adequate ventilation, do not block any ventilation openings, or place near heat sources."
  
 As does the Asgard 2 manual.
  
 "Fine" means it will probably last well beyond its warranty.  But not as long as it should last.  Together those devices dissipate 42 watts, 12 from the Bifrost and 30 from the Asgard 2.  Stacking them will increase interior temperatures a lot.  Schiit's feet are tiny, almost useless.  It's a bad idea.  Of course if you do stack, the cooler component should always go on the bottom--they will never say to stack the Bifrost above the Asgard 2.  As I said before, if you decide to stack, separate them a lot: use some really tall feet under each component, toss the Schiitty feet.


----------



## gefski

sam lord said:


> Sure.  And the Bifrost manual says:
> 
> "3. Assure adequate ventilation, do not block any ventilation openings, or place near heat sources."
> 
> ...




I agree about taller feet; that's what I did when I had a Bifrost/Valhalla.

By the way, the "holes" on the Schiit dacs aren't ventilation, not open to the inside.

IMOYMMV


----------



## mwb1

If I'm looking at a Gungnir, how do I tell if it is a delta sigma model or a multibit model?


----------



## pavement714

mwb1 said:


> If I'm looking at a Gungnir, how do I tell if it is a delta sigma model or a multibit model?


 

 Vertical Sticker on the back should tell you


----------



## Ableza

mwb1 said:


> If I'm looking at a Gungnir, how do I tell if it is a delta sigma model or a multibit model?


 
 The multibit models glow with the inner light of heaven's perfect audio.  Plus there's a sticker on the back.


----------



## mwb1

pavement714 said:


> Vertical Sticker on the back should tell you


 
  
 On the far left I assume.  Thanks.  I didn't catch that when I was comparing pictures on the Interwebs.
  
 http://audio-head.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/NewSchiit-4.jpg


----------



## artur9

audioholics has a review of the Gumby.  They even managed to work in an ESS glare slam.


----------



## Baldr

pavement714 said:


> Vertical Sticker on the back should tell you


 

 Also, a MB Gungnir on powerup will sequentially flash the input LEDs for the first few seconds until the analog settles.


----------



## mwb1

Well, I'm about to become a Gumby owner.  I had originally placed an order for the Yggy, but after thinking about my system and the space I have to work with, I decided to cancel the Yggy order and go with the Gumby.  Who knows if I can squeeze all of the performance out of the Yggy with my system and the Gumby already gets excellent reviews so I thought I’d start with that.  Maybe someday I’ll be a Yggy owner.  For what I have to work with, and considering the $1k price difference, I think it’s prudent for me to start with the Gumby and go from there.

 Background....
  
 For several years my main system was Rotel separates, an Arcam irDAC, and a Squeezebox Touch, which I was very happy with.
  
 This past winter I upgraded my amp to a Creek Evolution 100a, which definitely was an improvement, and started me thinking about other upgrades/additions.
  
 Then I bought a Marantz SA8005, which completely blew me away and spoiled my years.  Suddenly my irDAC wasn’t anything special, and I felt I had to find a better DAC if I was going to get any enjoyment out of my FLAC files, which is what I listen to the most.  I still think the irDAC is good when I listen to it on its own, but if I listen to the SA8005 and then switch right to FLAC files through my irDAC, the difference is apparent and it makes me think about the sound I could have if I upgraded.

 I’m really hoping to experience the magic everyone mentions when discussing the Gumby, and the Schiit multibit DACs in general.


----------



## sheldaze

mwb1 said:


> Well, I'm about to become a Gumby owner.  I had originally placed an order for the Yggy, but after thinking about my system and the space I have to work with, I decided to cancel the Yggy order and go with the Gumby.  Who knows if I can squeeze all of the performance out of the Yggy with my system and the Gumby already gets excellent reviews so I thought I’d start with that.  Maybe someday I’ll be a Yggy owner.  For what I have to work with, and considering the $1k price difference, I think it’s prudent for me to start with the Gumby and go from there.
> 
> Background....
> 
> ...


 
 Question,
 Could you elaborate just a little on the differences you heard, when going from the irDAC to the SA8005?
  
 I'm trying to keep this on topic and relevant to the Gumby discussion. To provide a little personal background, when I went to Gumby, it was probably a two-step upgrade. I was going from a smaller soundstage, less dynamic, less detailed sound to the Gungnir - and I was upgrading to the Multibit. I actually backtracked a little to the irDAC (purchased to listen to after the Gumby) to ensure that what I was hearing was both the DAC upgrade and the Multibit upgrade. And the irDAC still sounded quite good to my ears. In fact, when I had another listener over, she at first thought it was better than the Gumby (likely a dB or so higher volume through the single-ended output). We had to flip back and forth a couple of times until the Gumby was an obvious improvement. The Gumby does things that to the listener, having not heard one of the Multibits, might not be sure _what _to listen for. We are so adjusted to a harsh, unnatural sound, that we often block out that glare, in our minds, and it takes a while to open up our mind and ears to the more natural sound.
  
 Anyways, I found the Gumby and irDAC to be similarly good at soundstage and detail retrieval, but then the Multibit gave the Gumby that extra something that made it more real, less cerebral.
  
 So my question, what is it that you are hearing the SA8005 that you are not hearing in the irDAC? In my personal experience, I found the Gumby to be more like an irDAC than not, but with the added realism of the Multibit.


----------



## TurbOSquiD67

sheldaze said:


> Question,
> Could you elaborate just a little on the differences you heard, when going from the irDAC to the SA8005?
> 
> I'm trying to keep this on topic and relevant to the Gumby discussion. To provide a little personal background, when I went to Gumby, it was probably a two-step upgrade. I was going from a smaller soundstage, less dynamic, less detailed sound to the Gungnir - and I was upgrading to the Multibit. I actually backtracked a little to the irDAC (purchased to listen to after the Gumby) to ensure that what I was hearing was both the DAC upgrade and the Multibit upgrade. And the irDAC still sounded quite good to my ears. In fact, when I had another listener over, she at first thought it was better than the Gumby (likely a dB or so higher volume through the single-ended output). We had to flip back and forth a couple of times until the Gumby was an obvious improvement. The Gumby does things that to the listener, having not heard one of the Multibits, might not be sure _what _to listen for. We are so adjusted to a harsh, unnatural sound, that we often block out that glare, in our minds, and it takes a while to open up our mind and ears to the more natural sound.
> ...


 
  
 Nice, sheldaze.
  
 I too heard a bit of difference in "realism" of my audio with the upgrade from Modi2U to Bifrost MB. I'm now considering the Gumby because of the balanced capability, and 2 single ended outputs so I can switch between me amps easier! Hope there will be a slight difference between the Bimby going to the Gumby. 
  
 Kind of keeping this in the back of my mind....
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlADcpbxbg&feature=youtu.be


----------



## mwb1

sheldaze said:


> Question,
> Could you elaborate just a little on the differences you heard, when going from the irDAC to the SA8005?
> 
> I'm trying to keep this on topic and relevant to the Gumby discussion. To provide a little personal background, when I went to Gumby, it was probably a two-step upgrade. I was going from a smaller soundstage, less dynamic, less detailed sound to the Gungnir - and I was upgrading to the Multibit. I actually backtracked a little to the irDAC (purchased to listen to after the Gumby) to ensure that what I was hearing was both the DAC upgrade and the Multibit upgrade. And the irDAC still sounded quite good to my ears. In fact, when I had another listener over, she at first thought it was better than the Gumby (likely a dB or so higher volume through the single-ended output). We had to flip back and forth a couple of times until the Gumby was an obvious improvement. The Gumby does things that to the listener, having not heard one of the Multibits, might not be sure _what _to listen for. We are so adjusted to a harsh, unnatural sound, that we often block out that glare, in our minds, and it takes a while to open up our mind and ears to the more natural sound.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the comments sheldaze.  I'm not good at describing in words how things differ in sound, but I'll give it a try.
  
 (A quick disclaimer:  I'm not a headphones guy.  I'm speakers only.  I read Head-Fi because there is such good digital audio talk here.  Other, non-headphone HiFi sites talk too much about turntables and such.)
  
 The Marantz impressed me because, on my system, I heard:

Wider and deeper sound-stage
Fuller sound, yet still airy and almost ethereal.  The SA8005 sounds more alive to me.  And again, that doesn't mean the irDAC sounds flat or dead.  On my system the SA8005 just takes it up to the next level.
Cymbals sound magical to me on the Marantz.  There is something about the cymbals that, to my ears, sounds "golden", and it is intoxicating to me.
  
 It was really hard for me to get to the point of looking for a new DAC because the irDAC still sounds so good to me, and once I did decide to really start looking for something it's been hard to decide what to get, hence flip-flopping between the Yggy and the Gumby.  In the process I've gravitated toward the Shiit multibit gear because people tend to use words like "magical" when they describe the sound they hear from it, and that is how I the SA8005 sounds on my system and something I want to try and replicate.
  
 Your comments, though, do highlight some concerns I've wrestled with.  Sometimes I wonder if the Gumby going to be a big enough step up from the irDAC.  I feel the irDAC is very good, but based on what I've read, I get the feeling the Gumby is worth the upgrade.  I'll find out soon enough.


----------



## earnmyturns

mwb1 said:


> Cymbals sound magical to me on the Marantz.  There is something about the cymbals that, to my ears, sounds "golden", and it is intoxicating to me.


 
 I just have a Bifrost Multibit (+ Asgard 2 + MrSpeakers Alpha Primes) and cymbals are one of the delights of that DAC compared with the pre-multibit Bifrost or the (otherwise very good DAC in my speaker system (built into the Bel Canto C7R integrated amp). I listen to a lot of live jazz from front-row seats and I'm especially attentive to the work of such drum luminaries as Brian Blade or Eric Harland. That spacious, shimmering sound that they create with their cymbal strokes is exactly what I hear in their best recordings through the Bifrost Multibit. It just floats there in the air, fading and spreading between the drummer and me.


----------



## mwb1

earnmyturns said:


> I just have a Bifrost Multibit (+ Asgard 2 + MrSpeakers Alpha Primes) and cymbals are one of the delights of that DAC compared with the pre-multibit Bifrost or the (otherwise very good DAC in my speaker system (built into the Bel Canto C7R integrated amp). I listen to a lot of live jazz from front-row seats and I'm especially attentive to the work of such drum luminaries as Brian Blade or Eric Harland. That spacious, shimmering sound that they create with their cymbal strokes is exactly what I hear in their best recordings through the Bifrost Multibit. It just floats there in the air, fading and spreading between the drummer and me.


 
  
 Thanks for this feedback.  I listen to a lot of jazz too (mostly studio recordings).  This is exactly what I'm hoping to get out of the Gumby.  Sounds like I'm on the right track.


----------



## captblaze

mwb1 said:


> Thanks for this feedback.  I listen to a lot of jazz too (mostly studio recordings).  This is exactly what I'm hoping to get out of the Gumby.  Sounds like I'm on the right track.


 

 You should be pleased with the way Gumby sets the stage for your listening pleasure (I am loving her more each listen). The only advice I would give is make sure your source material is of high quality and get ready to find out that not all recordings are created equal. Gumby is so resolving that no poorly recorded material can hide from her​


----------



## TurbOSquiD67

What do ya'll think Schiit will offer as an upgrade to the Gungnir or MB version next year, or in the future? Or even a Gungnir 2? 
  
  
 -That's the first time I've ever used the word ya'll. Ever. lol fun facts.


----------



## captblaze

turbosquid67 said:


> What do ya'll think Schiit will offer as an upgrade to the Gungnir or MB version next year, or in the future? Or even a Gungnir 2?
> 
> 
> -That's the first time I've ever used the word ya'll. Ever. lol fun facts.


 
  
  
 I would like to see an upgraded USB board for Gumby, and unless magnetic north flips its axis I don't foresee any DSD support


----------



## mwb1

turbosquid67 said:


> What do ya'll think Schiit will offer as an upgrade to the Gungnir or MB version next year, or in the future? Or even a Gungnir 2?
> 
> 
> -That's the first time I've ever used the word ya'll. Ever. lol fun facts.


 
 I wish the Gumby would get a phase selector switch, like its big brother.  Although it would probably drive me mad flipping back and forth trying to figure out what sounded better, so maybe not.


----------



## RCBinTN

My personal DAC progression was:  Uber Bifrost - Gungnir - Gumby.  Every step was an improvement in SQ, especially the upgrade to the MB technology, which is just amazing.  I am sure the BMB is an upgrade over the SQ of the DS Bifrost, but I have not personally heard the BMB.


----------



## TurbOSquiD67

captblaze said:


> I would like to see an upgraded USB board for Gumby, and unless magnetic north flips its axis I don't foresee any DSD support


 
  
 For sure. USB with dedicated power, right? - Because I think most DACs pull power from the USB source such as your computer, which introduces noise. Edit: "most USB interfaces within DACs"****** pull power from source like pooter. 


mwb1 said:


> I wish the Gumby would get a phase selector switch, like its big brother.  Although it would probably drive me mad flipping back and forth trying to figure out what sounded better, so maybe not.


 
  
 Story of the hobby in general haha. Tube rolling, headphone switching, dac/amp switching.... I need to create a universal setup which switches at the push of a button. (everything is connected to everything) hell even a mixer would work to an extent, but not as high level as I'd want. But I know what you mean! Fun stuff oh yes. 


rcbintn said:


> My personal DAC progression was:  Uber Bifrost - Gungnir - Gumby.  Every step was an improvement in SQ, especially the upgrade to the MB technology, which is just amazing.  I am sure the BMB is an upgrade over the SQ of the DS Bifrost, but I have not personally heard the BMB.


 
 Awesome! I agree going from O2 - Modi2U - Bimby. VERY similar in resolution between them, but the multibit sets audio out there in a more realistic manner. I can only really tell if listening for more than a few minutes. Switching back and forth is difficult to tell, it's almost like you have to let it sink in as you listen. Difficult to explain! 
  
 Curious.... TN - In what time span did you go from bifrost to gumby? I have the opportunity to sell a few things (bimby/lyr2) and put that towards a Gumby/Mjolnir2, but I don't want to rush to the top too quickly and be left with less and less "upgrades". Hell, then I could sit back and just enjoy my music instead of analyzing the **** out of everything all the time - knowing that there's not much more to it than this... ha! (yep definitely upgradeasaurus)
  
 Although, I do enjoy my audio very much. The Bimby/Lyr2 is absolutely wonderful - very resolving and smooth. Tube rolling does wonders as well. Quick brain dump over!


----------



## QPLAZM

baldr said:


> Also, a MB Gungnir on powerup will sequentially flash the input LEDs for the first few seconds until the analog settles.


 
 Mine only flashes the 'buy better gear' LED. I hope thats normal...


----------



## Baldr

qplazm said:


> Mine only flashes the 'buy better gear' LED. I hope thats normal...


 

 OOps, that's correct - It is the Bimby which flashes the inputs.
  
 It is actually a case of the shoemakers' kids having bare feet since my units all have pre-production software.


----------



## theveterans

Never had the "flashing" input issue with my Bimby, but I feed it with a clean USB signal using iFi iUSB 3.0. Can't wait for Yggy revision 2.0 or some upgrades so that I'll be able to cure my upgraditis.


----------



## QPLAZM

baldr said:


> OOps, that's correct - It is the Bimby which flashes the inputs.
> 
> It is actually a case of the shoemakers' kids having bare feet since my units all have pre-production software.


 
 Thanks for the reply! I have never seen another Gumby power up before so I wouldn't know how its supposed to behave.


----------



## TurbOSquiD67

theveterans said:


> Never had the "flashing" input issue with my Bimby, but I feed it with a clean USB signal using iFi iUSB 3.0. Can't wait for Yggy revision 2.0 or some upgrades so that I'll be able to cure my upgraditis.


 
 Agreed. Although my Bimby does cycle the led's through for 30 seconds or so before becoming available, I don't think that's what you guys are referring to though. 
  
 How do you like the iFi iUSB? I went with the Wyrd usb interface due to price, but kind of itching for the next best as always haha. Do you have any other USB power/filter hubs to compare to?


----------



## Ableza

turbosquid67 said:


> How do you like the iFi iUSB? I went with the Wyrd usb interface due to price, but kind of itching for the next best as always haha. Do you have any other USB power/filter hubs to compare to?


 
 I've compared the Wyrd to the iFi directly.  The Wyrd remains in my system and the iFi was sold on Ebay.


----------



## TurbOSquiD67

ableza said:


> I've compared the Wyrd to the iFi directly.  The Wyrd remains in my system and the iFi was sold on Ebay.


 
 Interesting. I'm guessing they both had the same affect on your audio? That is, the extremely small difference that it would make in the first place.


----------



## RCBinTN

turbosquid67 said:


> For sure. USB with dedicated power, right? - Because I think most DACs pull power from the USB source such as your computer, which introduces noise. Edit: "most USB interfaces within DACs"****** pull power from source like pooter.
> 
> Story of the hobby in general haha. Tube rolling, headphone switching, dac/amp switching.... I need to create a universal setup which switches at the push of a button. (everything is connected to everything) hell even a mixer would work to an extent, but not as high level as I'd want. But I know what you mean! Fun stuff oh yes.
> Awesome! I agree going from O2 - Modi2U - Bimby. VERY similar in resolution between them, but the multibit sets audio out there in a more realistic manner. I can only really tell if listening for more than a few minutes. Switching back and forth is difficult to tell, it's almost like you have to let it sink in as you listen. Difficult to explain!
> ...


 
 Hi TurbOSquiD67,
  
 It was about 2.5 years.  I started with the UberBi/Asgard2 stack and some LCD-X cans.  Single ended rig.  Then after awhile I decided to go balanced so sold the UberBi/A2 and purchased the balanced components - Gungnir/Mjolnir.  The LCD-X were already balanced design.  Used that rig for a year, until the MB upgrade was announced for the Gungnir.  Jumped on that upgrade right away.  I would have bought the Yggy but it's much bigger than the Gumby and requires a more-dedicated space that I don't really have.  Anyway, I am so happy with the Gumby and my new amp the BHA-1, that I'm not really thinking about upgrading much more.  I'm just enjoying all my music.  I may buy the Mjolnir2 in the future, to roll some tubes with my HD800 cans.  The G/M2 rig gets many favorable comments, in fact Jason said it's his favorite stack.  Enjoy the journey, and thanks for asking.
  
 Cheers -
 RCB


----------



## TurbOSquiD67

rcbintn said:


> Hi TurbOSquiD67,
> 
> It was about 2.5 years.  I started with the UberBi/Asgard2 stack and some LCD-X cans.  Single ended rig.  Then after awhile I decided to go balanced so sold the UberBi/A2 and purchased the balanced components - Gungnir/Mjolnir.  The LCD-X were already balanced design.  Used that rig for a year, until the MB upgrade was announced for the Gungnir.  Jumped on that upgrade right away.  I would have bought the Yggy but it's much bigger than the Gumby and requires a more-dedicated space that I don't really have.  Anyway, I am so happy with the Gumby and my new amp the BHA-1, that I'm not really thinking about upgrading much more.  I'm just enjoying all my music.  I may buy the Mjolnir2 in the future, to roll some tubes with my HD800 cans.  The G/M2 rig gets many favorable comments, in fact Jason said it's his favorite stack.  Enjoy the journey, and thanks for asking.
> 
> ...


 
 Nice, good stuff! I'm glad you've enjoyed your upgrades, and I hope to settle on a rig soon like you have been able to do. I purchased my first nice pair of headphones and an amp/dac recently in December. JDS O2+ODAC and DT990/HE-400i (sold the HE-400i). Then shortly after.... Lyr 2/Modi2U. Then Bifrost MB, T1.2, built a Crack+Speedball, and just received a nice pair of HE-500's today   
  
 I think, I hope, that a Gumby/Mojo2 would be quite the step coming from Lyr2/BMB. I do plan to go balanced and hope that would be somewhat an improvement as well. Still searching for that perfect sound! Probably always will be, I guess that's the fun of the game. 
  
 Regards!


----------



## theveterans

turbosquid67 said:


> Agreed. Although my Bimby does cycle the led's through for 30 seconds or so before becoming available, I don't think that's what you guys are referring to though.
> 
> How do you like the iFi iUSB? I went with the Wyrd usb interface due to price, but kind of itching for the next best as always haha. Do you have any other USB power/filter hubs to compare to?




I've had the iUSB when I had the meridian explorer and saw noticeable improvement in soundstage, instrument separation and most importantly, detail retrieval. I've heard details that I never knew existed after putting the iUSB 3.0. That's why I kept the iUSB 3.0. The ME is usb powered so it's a lot more noticeable than the Bifrost Multibit. There's still that soundstage improvement, but it's a subtle effect and can be dubious with double blind testing since there's no difference in detail retrieval unlike the Meridian Explorer. I've never heard the Wyrd, but Microsoft designed the Surface Pro 3 to be as power efficient as possible (connected standby thing) so I can't really disable USB power savings. It's no loss for me, but if you can get the iFi iUSB 3.0 nano or micro on Amazon, you can return it if it's not worth it for you.


----------



## maximal112

Hello All
  
 About a month ago I purchased a new set of Stax SR-L500s, SRM 353x and Chord Mojo to go with it to run from my pc. On and off been having a few issues with the mojo which I think I may have sold but still got me thinking about upgrading to something else as I don't require the portability anyway.
  
 Hence why I am here, been reading many good things about Gungnir Multibit so been thinking about ordering one along with a Wyrd. Figured why not just get something good now that will last me into the future, and I like the idea that you it can actually be upgraded if anything new comes out for it.
  
 Few questions though. As there is no dealer around me I would be ordering online having never heard it before, how does the sound compare to the Mojo if anyone has heard both? or something like the Primare DAC 30 as I know the local dealer has these and I would be able to listen to it if needed. Should be noted that while I listen to a lot of different music, I do have a large collection of electronic music as well.
  
 Thanks for the help


----------



## sheldaze

maximal112 said:


> Hello All
> 
> About a month ago I purchased a new set of Stax SR-L500s, SRM 353x and Chord Mojo to go with it to run from my pc. On and off been having a few issues with the mojo which I think I may have sold but still got me thinking about upgrading to something else as I don't require the portability anyway.
> 
> ...


 
 Very comparable sound - meaning I use one or the other, without either leaving a distaste or a feeling that I must immediately jump back to the other DAC. I would say the Mojo has a little more emphasis on the treble. The Gungnir Multibit has more grime and grunge, picks up more palpable dirt in the recording. Perhaps it gives the sensation of a little more "realness" in the sound, while the Mojo makes things sound a hair cleaner.
  
 In short, I find both enjoyable and think you'll make the transition easily!


----------



## maximal112

That's good to know. Do you switch between them in a home environment or take the Mojo on the go with you? I'm still relatively new to the world of higher end audio so trying to find that sound that I like or rather just trying to avoid something I wouldn't and work towards what's ideal for me. Having never tried yet, what sort of difference/if any, would I see running balanced cables from the gumby to the stax rather than RCA?


----------



## sheldaze

Primary usage of the Mojo is for travel - that's true. But I still do not feel I am missing a great deal using it vice using the Gumby. I frequently use the Mojo with new gear, simply because the Gumby takes a lot more effort to move, and desk space to store for any extended time. So my Gumby sits on a dedicated shelf. Eventually my signature will go back to Gumby > MicroZOTL2.
  
 If you can, do use the balanced output. There is a slight decrease in volume through the RCA outputs, and it may be harder to hear the goodness of the DAC in A/B comparisons due to this. But that is precisely how I am using the Gumby. The last balanced amplifier I owned is now sold.
  
 I've read and tried other DACs, due to the common notion that there is something wrong with the RCA outputs from the Gumby - there is nothing wrong with the RCA. But it is a balanced DAC. So if you have a balanced amplifier, go for it! Just a little more volume, and removal of grounding issues is all you'll get.


----------



## maximal112

Sorry, asking how you used the Mojo was more just a curiosity thing, wasn't trying to imply anything about how you used it or different environments. I'm lucky, sort of I have the shelves where the stax and gumby would sit right next to my computer desk so I can just lean over to adjust anything. Running out of room on them now though, haha.
 Yea balanced shouldn't be an issue as the stax has balanced input. Any reason you sold your balanced amplifiers?
  
 Sounds like balanced will be the way to go then


----------



## sheldaze

No problems 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Just not clear what you've read here. And it is simpler to explain up front, than it is to guess later.
 And definitely, still recommending the balanced outputs - no question. It'd be the first thing I'd plug in, if I were to acquire a balanced amplifier anytime in the future


----------



## maximal112

Yea pretty much, more information never a bad thing
 Sounds like that's the way to go then. May I ask why you moved away from the balanced? or rather what it was that made you pick your current one?


----------



## sheldaze

Much more information in the MicroZOTL2 thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Honestly though, finding not a lot of companies pushing the edge and going to balanced at a low price. For example Cavalli did it with their Carbon at $600. But the next up in their line that is balanced is their Gold at $4000. Schiit is odd too in offering balanced amplifiers at relatively reasonable prices - Mjolnir at $849 and Ragnarok at $1699. But for now, I'm sticking to amplifiers at around $1000. So most of these are unbalanced.


----------



## maximal112

Shall have to look into it, not so much because I need a new one just to learn.
 Feel my options amp wise are a bit more limited at the moment due to the Stax with the electrostats needing a different amp and from the looks of things getting something other than a Stax will be a jump in price, but luckily not in need of an upgrade for that any time soon. maybe...on the plus side it means that I at least get a balanced connection. But so far I am definitely enjoying them, only thing I do notice now is some of the poorer quality recordings definitely stand out a lot more, but that was always kind of expected


----------



## mwb1

mwb1 said:


> Well, I'm about to become a Gumby owner.


 
  
 I took delivery of my Gumby yesterday.  It's been powered on with a signal running to it for about 24 hours.
  
 1. This sounds stupid, but best shipping packaging I've ever seen.  The box it is shipped in is incredibly strong and the packing tape and padding inside are miles better than most I've seen.
  
 2. This thing is a beast.  I was shocked by how heavy it is and how solid the case feels.
  
 3. I'm disappointed with the coax input.  It seems really loose to me, like there isn't enough holding it in place.  I actually have a deck of cards sitting under the cable connector so the cable doesn't put stress on the RCA input.  It sags otherwise.  I'm not sure what to do about this.  Seems like a minor thing to return it for, but for $1300, I expect a little more.
  
 4. I only have 24 hours on it, but it already sounds noticeably better *to me in my system* than my Arcam irDAC.
  
 5. The bass is sublime.  It's so powerful, firm, and clean.  I've heard people talk about the "Mike Moffat Bass", but I wasn't expecting this.  Amazing.  It improves my system big time.
  
 6.  Mid range and highs are good.  Still a little harsh, but I can already hear details I wasn't hearing with my irDAC.  I can hear fingers running up and down the acoustic guitar strings.  I can hear a musician taking a breath between notes.   The sound is more real, than my irDAC, almost like the music is being performed right in my living room.  Cymbals show a lot of promise in achieving the magic I described in my previous post.
  
 24 hours in and I'm impressed.  Looking forward to getting even better.
  
 Any suggestions on what I should do about the coax input?  It sort of feels like I'm settling if I keep it as it, and overreacting if I try to send it back.


----------



## mwb1

mwb1 said:


> 3. I'm disappointed with the coax input.  It seems really loose to me, like there isn't enough holding it in place.  I actually have a deck of cards sitting under the cable connector so the cable doesn't put stress on the RCA input.  It sags otherwise.  I'm not sure what to do about this.  Seems like a minor thing to return it for, but for $1300, I expect a little more.
> 
> Any suggestions on what I should do about the coax input?  It sort of feels like I'm settling if I keep it as it, and overreacting if I try to send it back.


----------



## Mediahound

mwb1 said:


>


 

 Your Coax RCA cable looks heavy, that's probably the issue. 
  
 If you want something sturdier, try using the BNC in instead (although you'd have to use a different cable termination). Alternatively, use USB or Optical in.


----------



## mwb1

mediahound said:


> Your Coax RCA cable looks heavy, that's probably the issue.
> 
> If you want something sturdier, try using the BNC in instead (although you'd have to use a different cable termination). Alternatively, use USB or Optical in.


 
  
 It looks heavier than it is.  But yes, it is on the heavier side.  My frame of reference is that it wasn't an issue with any of my previous DACs.
  
 I was going to upgrade my coax cable anyway, and I selected a Morrow Audio DIG4 because, if it is anything like their interconnects, it is a very light weight cable.  I'm trading in a set of MA-1s to get 50% off the DIG4.
  
  
 I really want to use the coax input.  Switching to the TOSLINK seems like I'm settling.


----------



## mwb1

mwb1 said:


> I really want to use the coax input.  Switching to the TOSLINK seems like I'm settling.


 
  
 To my ears, the Gumby sounds better via coax than via TOSLINK, but I freely admit I may be biased.  What do others think?


----------



## Mediahound

mwb1 said:


> To my ears, the Gumby sounds better via coax than via TOSLINK, but I freely admit I may be biased.  What do others think?


 

 In my setup USB sounds best. Probably b/c I run a Wyrd and my Mac has what I think is weak optical out. Coax out is not an option for me on my Mac however.


----------



## captblaze

mwb1 said:


> To my ears, the Gumby sounds better via coax than via TOSLINK, but I freely admit I may be biased.  What do others think?


 
  
 the toslink output on my computer is noisy as hell and my sacd player only has digital coax out, but to be perfectly honest running out of my computer via USB has been more than acceptable. I cannot detect any noise with headphones or through the speakers i have connected to my Rag


----------



## rnros

If you look at the Schiit website PCB photos you can see that the Coax RCA is only board mounted, no frame/case retainer for additional support.
 With that in mind you may be able to get a better sense if you think the board mounting is not properly executed. Doesn't hurt to email Schiit tech support to ask the question. I would want to know, and Schiit is very helpful with any concern or request. If you just send the unit back and there is no problem with the unit, not sure how that would go with shipping costs both ways.
  
 I don't have any serious sag with a typical size RCA, a little bit but nothing that would worry me. The BNC is solid mounted to the case with a retaining nut and I do think it's the way to go.
 IIRC, BNC is Mike Moffat's first choice for feeding the Gumby.


----------



## mwb1

rnros said:


> If you look at the Schiit website PCB photos you can see that the Coax RCA is only board mounted, no frame/case retainer for additional support.
> With that in mind you may be able to get a better sense if you think the board mounting is not properly executed. Doesn't hurt to email Schiit tech support to ask the question. I would want to know, and Schiit is very helpful with any concern or request. If you just send the unit back and there is no problem with the unit, not sure how that would go with shipping costs both ways.
> 
> I don't have any serious sag with a typical size RCA, a little bit but nothing that would worry me. The BNC is solid mounted to the case with a retaining nut and I do think it's the way to go.
> IIRC, BNC is Mike Moffat's first choice for feeding the Gumby.


 
  
 Thanks for the input everyone.  
  
 The cable in the picture is a cheap, $20 Blue Jeans RCA-to-RCA cable.  I just looked on the Blue Jeans site and I can order the same cable with RCA-to-BNC for not a ton of money.  I might order one up to compare.


----------



## Mediahound

mwb1 said:


> Thanks for the input everyone.
> 
> The cable in the picture is a cheap, $20 Blue Jeans RCA-to-RCA cable.  I just looked on the Blue Jeans site and I can order the same cable with RCA-to-BNC for not a ton of money.  I might order one up to compare.


 

 I'd probably do that, or have the existing cable re-terminated BNC. That's going to be a more reliable connection any way you look at it.


----------



## mwb1

mediahound said:


> I'd probably do that, or have the existing cable re-terminated BNC. That's going to be a more reliable connection any way you look at it.


 
  
 Agreed.  I've never really been exposed to BNC connectors so they weren't on my radar.  Thanks again everyone for your help with this.  It's nice to have a place like this to get good feedback and ideas from others.


----------



## Mediahound

mwb1 said:


> Agreed.  I've never really been exposed to BNC connectors so it really wasn't on my radar.  Thanks again everyone for your help with this.


 

 BTW, I'm using RCA pre outs on my Mjolnir 2 with no issues however those RCA outs look different than the RCA digital in of the Gungnir as they have a screw mount to the chassis.


----------



## earnmyturns

mwb1 said:


> 4. I only have 24 hours on it, but it already sounds noticeably better *to me in my system* than my Arcam irDAC.


 
 Curious about your system, saw the pics but could not quite figure it out. I love the Schiit multibit sound (from a Bimby) and I've been thinking of getting a Gungnir MB for my living room speaker system, but my current integrated amp, a Bel Canto C7R, while very nice in itself and a really good driver for my KEF Reference 1 speakers, does not take balanced input, and even if it did, it does something that would defeat the Gungnir's purpose: it runs its analog inputs through an oversampling A2D, digital volume control, then its internal DAC. What's your preamp-volume control-amp setup? Thanks!


----------



## mwb1

earnmyturns said:


> Curious about your system, saw the pics but could not quite figure it out. I love the Schiit multibit sound (from a Bimby) and I've been thinking of getting a Gungnir MB for my living room speaker system, but my current integrated amp, a Bel Canto C7R, while very nice in itself and a really good driver for my KEF Reference 1 speakers, does not take balanced input, and even if it did, it does something that would defeat the Gungnir's purpose: it runs its analog inputs through an oversampling A2D, digital volume control, then its internal DAC. What's your preamp-volume control-amp setup? Thanks!


 
  
 My amp is a Creek Evolution 100a.  I like it because:

It sounds good to me.  Pretty good punchy bass.
I like the compact size, even though it is still 110w into 8 ohms (it's surprisingly heavy).  That wooden cabinet is all I have to work with and I like a smaller form factor.
It doesn't get hot at all.
I like the balanced inputs and 2 sets of binding posts
  
 Other than that, it's a pretty simple integrated amp.  Pretty much everyone sells it for $2199, which fits my budget and I think it's in line with the level of my other components.


----------



## Mediahound

mwb1 said:


>


 
  
 What XLR cables are those and do you recommend them?


----------



## captblaze

mediahound said:


> What XLR cables are those and do you recommend them?


 
  
  
 they look like Audioquest King Cobras to me... I'm rocking the Columbias and am 100% happy


----------



## Mediahound

captblaze said:


> they look like Audioquest King Cobras to me... I'm rocking the Columbias and am 100% happy


 

 Are those the ones that take batteries?


----------



## captblaze

mediahound said:


> Are those the ones that take batteries?


 
  
 the columbias need battery power for the noise dissipation system. I don't think the King cobras do


----------



## crazychile

captblaze said:


> mediahound said:
> 
> 
> > Are those the ones that take batteries?
> ...


 

 The King Cobras do not use the battery system. I bought a set on closeout and they've been sitting in a box for about 3 months as I save up for the new DAC.


----------



## mwb1

mediahound said:


> What XLR cables are those and do you recommend them?




Yeah they are King Cobras. I've been using King Cobra RCA cables in my system for years. They sound good to me and the build quality is nice.

I got these XLRs at Music Direct last week on closeout for $150 (reg. $250). I was surprised at how many King Cobra options they still have available. I wouldn't be surprised if you could stil snag a set.


----------



## mwb1

mwb1 said:


> Yeah they are King Cobras. I've been using King Cobra RCA cables in my system for years. They sound good to me and the build quality is nice.
> 
> I got these XLRs at Music Direct last week on closeout for $150 (reg. $250). I was surprised at how many King Cobra options they still have available. I wouldn't be surprised if you could stil snag a set.




Music Direct has lots of Columbia options too at great discounts.


----------



## Mediahound

mwb1 said:


> Yeah they are King Cobras. I've been using King Cobra RCA cables in my system for years. They sound good to me and the build quality is nice.
> 
> I got these XLRs at Music Direct last week on closeout for $150 (reg. $250). I was surprised at how many King Cobra options they still have available. I wouldn't be surprised if you could stil snag a set.


 

 Did they discountinue the King Cobra?


----------



## cishida

mediahound said:


> Did they discountinue the King Cobra?


 

 It seems so. Not listed on the audioquest website anymore. Nor is columbia or colorado.
  
 Also recommend the king cobra's - they are very nice.


----------



## Ableza

I own a few Audioquest cables.  They are nicely made, but perform no differently than any other cable.  Just buy well-made cables and you are set.


----------



## swspiers

ableza said:


> I own a few Audioquest cables.  They are nicely made, but perform no differently than any other cable.  Just buy well-made cables and you are set.




+1

I've never heard a "good" cable yet. But I have heard bad


----------



## mordicai

mediahound said:


> I'd probably do that, or have the existing cable re-terminated BNC. That's going to be a more reliable connection any way you look at it.


 

 I'm a big fan of the Blue jeans RCA cable, but not the connectors. I buy the cable in bulk and put on Neutrik RCA plugs. I think this is about as good an RCA cable as you can get!


----------



## chry5alis

I recently invested in a 7.5m set of RCA interconnects to hook up my gumby to my home cinema setup with great results. Kabeldirect pro bought on amazon for roughly £12 and theyre one of my best audio purchases performance per value so far. 

Starting to get a lot, lot more out of my dac these days and falling more in love with it


----------



## mwb1

mwb1 said:


> Thanks for the input everyone.
> 
> The cable in the picture is a cheap, $20 Blue Jeans RCA-to-RCA cable.  I just looked on the Blue Jeans site and I can order the same cable with RCA-to-BNC for not a ton of money.  I might order one up to compare.


 
  
 I ordered these Tuesday night.  BJC custom made them to my specs and they were delivered to my door Friday AM.  $16.50 for the orange one $20.50 for the blue one.
  
 Unsure yet about SQ via this cable (currently using the blue one) and the BNC input on the Gumby, but the BNC connection is really slick.  Very sturdy and I like how it locks in place.


----------



## RCBinTN

mwb1 said:


> I ordered these Tuesday night.  BJC custom made them to my specs and they were delivered to my door Friday AM.  $16.50 for the orange one $20.50 for the blue one.
> 
> Unsure yet about SQ via this cable (currently using the blue one) and the BNC input on the Gumby, but the BNC connection is really slick.  Very sturdy and I like how it locks in place.


 
 What is different between the two cables?  And, what's the connector on the other end (from the BNC)?  Thanks.


----------



## mwb1

rcbintn said:


> What is different between the two cables?  And, what's the connector on the other end (from the BNC)?  Thanks.


 
  
 The other end is regular RCA.
  
 The orange cable is this:
  


> Coaxial Digital Audio Cable: Belden 1694A Our favorite cable for coaxial digital audio use (many others are available; see below) is Belden 1694A "Brilliance" precision digital video coaxial cable, a 75 ohm coax engineered for low signal loss over long runs. These cables are exceptionally well shielded to keep outside electromagnetic interference from entering and polluting the signal; the shielding consists of a combination of a dense (95% coverage) tinned copper braid and a double-sided aluminum-on-polyester foil, for the best protection both against EMI and RFI. View the technical specs for Belden 1694A.


 
  
 The blue cable is this:
  


> Belden 1505F Coax: For most applications, where cables will be installed once or a few times and seldom handled, we recommend the solid-conductor coaxes above. However, if you will be handling your cables on a regular basis because of frequent system reconfigurations, or mobile use, or what-have-you, a multistranded, more flexible cable will stand up to that handling much better, and of course it's a bit easier to route. Until recently, there was no 75 ohm high-flex cable available that could compete with Belden's best cables for impedance consistency and bandwidth--to fill this void, Belden introduced 1505F, a highly flexible cable designed for use in video patch panels. Belden 1505F uses a compacted stranded center conductor and a double braid shield, and is sweep-tested to 3 GHz. The result is a more flexible, more durable cable, at a very slight sacrifice in performance characteristics. View Belden's specs and technical data for Belden 1505F.


 
  
 The orange cable is much stiffer than the blue cable.
  
 http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/index.htm


----------



## Ableza

Back to the topic of the Gungnir: just now as I sit here listening to my Ether-C driven by a Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir Multibit, a voice in the mix sounded like it was coming from the next room and made me turn my head to see who my wife was talking to.  Realism.  Can't be beaten.


----------



## sheldaze

ableza said:


> Back to the topic of the Gungnir: just now as I sit here listening to my Ether-C driven by a Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir Multibit, a voice in the mix sounded like it was coming from the next room and made me turn my head to see who my wife was talking to.  Realism.  Can't be beaten.


 
 Whatever auditory, psychoacoustic trick it is applying to the ears and brain, I agree with you - it is amazing!
 Love your choice of word too. Realism.


----------



## reddog

ableza said:


> Back to the topic of the Gungnir: just now as I sit here listening to my Ether-C driven by a Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir Multibit, a voice in the mix sounded like it was coming from the next room and made me turn my head to see who my wife was talking to.  Realism.  Can't be beaten.


 are you still using gold lions in your MJ2?


----------



## Mediahound

ableza said:


> Back to the topic of the Gungnir: just now as I sit here listening to my Ether-C driven by a Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir Multibit, a voice in the mix sounded like it was coming from the next room and made me turn my head to see who my wife was talking to.  Realism.  Can't be beaten.




 Speaking of that play the binaural test here, using your headphones:

http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


----------



## Ableza

reddog said:


> are you still using gold lions in your MJ2?


 
 Yep.


----------



## Ableza

mediahound said:


> Speaking of that play the binaural test here, using your headphones:
> 
> http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


 
 Ha that's cool!


----------



## mwb1

mwb1 said:


> Well, I'm about to become a Gumby owner.  I had originally placed an order for the Yggy, but after thinking about my system and the space I have to work with, I decided to cancel the Yggy order and go with the Gumby.  Who knows if I can squeeze all of the performance out of the Yggy with my system and the Gumby already gets excellent reviews so I thought I’d start with that.  Maybe someday I’ll be a Yggy owner.  For what I have to work with, and considering the $1k price difference, I think it’s prudent for me to start with the Gumby and go from there.
> 
> Background....
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have about 100 hours on my Gumby.  Always powered on with a signal running to it.  I listened to at least 2 hours per day for the first 4 days.  The rest of the time my amp was on mute.
  
 The first few days were, meh.  Good, not great. I could hear the promise, but it wasn't blowing my irDAC out of the water.
  
 Thursday AM I was listening to music before work and had my first jaw dropping moment.  I was already amazed by the bass put out by the Gumby, but Thursday morning I got my first glimpse of the overall depth, realism, and "magical cymbals" I've been chasing since I got my SA8005.  The whole reason I was looking for a new DAC in the first place was my SA8005 made my irDAC seem unimpressive.  For a while I was worried the Gumby would not be enough of an improvement over the irDAC.  I worry about that no more.  With my system, the Gumby easily beats both my irDAC and, to a lesser extent my SA8005, in all aspects and I find all of the glowing things people say about the Gumby are 100% true.  The Gumby sounds way more lifelike, more alive, and more real.  The depth and transparency put out by the Gumby are clearly better than any other DAC I've owned.  I want to say the Gumby sound is deeper than it is wide, if that makes any sense.  Anyway, my FLAC collection (90% of what I listen to) is enjoyable again, and I'm thrilled about that.
  
 To put it another way:  With my irDAC I could easily imagine what a better DAC would sound like.  With my Gumby, it's much harder to imagine what something better would sound like.  The Gumby is by far the most bang for the buck upgrade I've done to my system.  I'm thrilled with this DAC.


----------



## rnros

> With my Gumby, it's much harder to imagine what something better would sound like.  The Gumby is by far the most bang for the buck upgrade I've done to my system.


 
 This.
 Last thing I would want to lose or change, except maybe for the Yggy.


----------



## rnros

ableza said:


> Back to the topic of the Gungnir: just now as I sit here listening to my Ether-C driven by a Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir Multibit, a voice in the mix sounded like it was coming from the next room and made me turn my head to see who my wife was talking to.  Realism.  Can't be beaten.


 

 LOL Beyond all the careful listening (and talking) we tend to do to evaluate audio performance of any given gear, that has to be one of the most telling experiences. When I find myself startled and tearing off the headphones to see what's going on around me, I know I've been taken in by the same 'reality' experience.
 Recently I did the same thing with a car horn, wondering who the hell that would be, turns out it was outside the recording venue which was not totally isolated from exterior noise. And that was a Chesky recording.


----------



## mwb1

My Gumby has been powered on with a signal running to it for 8 days straight (192 hours).  Is it broken/burned in?  How much more should I expect the sound to change/improve over the next few weeks?


----------



## joeexp

mwb1 said:


> My Gumby has been powered on with a signal running to it for 8 days straight (192 hours).  Is it broken/burned in?  How much more should I expect the sound to change/improve over the next few weeks?


 

 8 days does the trick! I didn't notice any more improvement after one week. More  like your brain adjusting to the R2R sound afterwards ...


----------



## 435090

How much would a Gungnir MB be a step up from an Emotiva DC-1?


----------



## mordicai

forstsiven said:


> How much would a Gungnir MB be a step up from an Emotiva DC-1?


 
 I upgraded from a DAC-1 to a Bifrost MB. The Emotive is a great unit that I have enjoy for a couple;e of years. It has an excellent DAC and I love all the switching. The upgrade to the Bifrost MB is BIG. A whole bunch of steps up for me....my ears, my equipment, my brain. In the beginning I ran the Bifrost into the Dac-1 Anolog in and then out to my amp , but...it sounded better to me when I ran it direct to the amp. You will miss the handiness of the DAC-1 in your system, but you will love the Multibit. I did not go for the Gungir because I do not believe balanced is a step up for headphones, and unless you need balanced I don't think you will hear a difference.


----------



## joeexp

mordicai said:


> …  unless you need balanced I don't think you will hear a difference.


 
  
 Why do people put so much emphasis  on wether a DAC  is balanced or unbalanced. I don't think that's the most important difference between the Bimby and the Gumby.


----------



## captblaze

joeexp said:


> Why do people put so much emphasis  on wether a DAC  is balanced or unbalanced. I don't think that's the most important difference between the Bimby and the Gumby.


 
  
 everyone has different criteria when it comes to a very expensive and objective topic like the ones covered on this forum. some people want the "latest and greatest" regardless of cost or actual benefit sonically. some people research and audition extensively and never reach an end game, and some people hit the sweet spot and are willing to ride it out.
  
 i am a balanced believer when it comes to my end game rig, but have and do consider SE for mobile or portable applications.
  
 for anyone to claim that either is superior, period, end of story... truly doesnt understand as much as they think they do about how this entire game plays out and are short changing them self in the long term


----------



## Mediahound

joeexp said:


> Why do people put so much emphasis  on wether a DAC  is balanced or unbalanced. I don't think that's the most important difference between the Bimby and the Gumby.


 

 Because I run a balanced amp so want my DAC to have the same topology. I tend to run hard to drive headphones so a balanced amp really helps for that in a lot of ways including more available power.


----------



## joeexp

First of - there are a lot of Amps that have, although SE, balanced HP outputs/balanced XLR inputs.
 Having SE topology isn't necessarily a bad thing for an AMP.
 There are many great SE Amps out there; Audeze King, Cavalli Audio Liquid Crimson etc, etc … They all sound really good!
 And I know of a lot of DACs, although inherently having a SE Topology (DS), boast balanced XLR outputs fro convenience.
 (There is always Jensen Transformers to go from SE to XLR …)
  
 What I am trying to say is Sound-Quality beats Topology-Consistency  any day.


----------



## mordicai

mediahound said:


> joeexp said:
> 
> 
> > Why do people put so much emphasis  on wether a DAC  is balanced or unbalanced. I don't think that's the most important difference between the Bimby and the Gumby.
> ...


 

 Oh yah, If my Amp was balanced I would have bought the Gumby for sure. I just decided when I built my amp that spending another $2,000 to go balanced wasn't needed for me. My amp has tons of gain, and my cable runs are short, and Im a believer in KISS.


----------



## cishida

Many of the 80's and 90's Disney soundtracks sound incredible (perhaps demo worthy) through the Gumby. The Little Mermaid is a revelation compared with my audio memory from that time. Also completely transformed compared with a D/S DAC like AQ Dragonfly. "Beauty and the Beast" and "Mulan" too.


----------



## cskippy

cishida said:


> Many of the 80's and 90's Disney soundtracks sound incredible (perhaps demo worthy) through the Gumby. The Little Mermaid is a revelation compared with my audio memory from that time. Also completely transformed compared with a D/S DAC like AQ Dragonfly. "Beauty and the Beast" and "Mulan" too.


 
 You just made me go to Tidal and play some Disney classics.  Thanks!


----------



## cishida

cskippy said:


> You just made me go to Tidal and play some Disney classics.  Thanks!


 

 Yeah, Tidal is how I'm playing "The Little Mermaid".
  
 I've been listening to the "special edition" (tidal.com/album/47941598) instead of the "greatest hits". The later seems to be "re-mastered" louder.


----------



## RCBinTN

cishida said:


> Many of the 80's and 90's Disney soundtracks sound incredible (perhaps demo worthy) through the Gumby. The Little Mermaid is a revelation compared with my audio memory from that time. Also completely transformed compared with a D/S DAC like AQ Dragonfly. "Beauty and the Beast" and "Mulan" too.


 
  
 Thanks for the tip!  My favorite is _Fantasia_.


----------



## reddog

rcbintn said:


> Thanks for the tip!  My favorite is _Fantasia_.



Fantasia is a great movie, especially if you can fine a original copy that was not cut to meet the political correctness of the 90's.


----------



## maximal112

Anyone listened to the Lion King yet? Some Disney classics sounds like the perfect place to start when I get my gumby soon


----------



## Sonic Defender

I'm worried about all of you guys, go get your testosterone tested.


----------



## maximal112

can't tell me you don't love singing along to some Elton John "Can You Feel the Love Tonight"


----------



## Sonic Defender

maximal112 said:


> can't tell me you don't love singing along to some Elton John "Can You Feel the Love Tonight"


 
 I have to be honest and say I would rather not. Does that make me a bad person?


----------



## maximal112

sonic defender said:


> I have to be honest and say I would rather not. Does that make me a bad person?


 
 I think I'll leave others to pass judgement on that one


----------



## Sonic Defender

maximal112 said:


> I think I'll leave others to pass judgement on that one


 
 It's okay, my wife already told me I'm bad today so that should cover me off for the next few days!


----------



## maximal112

sonic defender said:


> It's okay, my wife already told me I'm bad today so that should cover me off for the next few days!


 
 Something for me to look forward to. I'm still waiting for the day my girlfriend changes her tune from "It's ok, buy the more expensive one if it will make you happy" to "you spend how much on that?!?"


----------



## Astral Abyss

maximal112 said:


> Something for me to look forward to. I'm still waiting for the day my girlfriend changes her tune from "It's ok, buy the more expensive one if it will make you happy" to "you spend how much on that?!?"




Usually happens about the time they go from girlfriend to wife.


----------



## maximal112

astral abyss said:


> Usually happens about the time they go from girlfriend to wife.


 
 Funnily enough exactly what I was thinking, better make the most of it while I still can. Was pretty good last year when I bought a new car


----------



## Suopermanni

Has anyone heard the Gumby (delta or multibit) vs the Violectric V850?
  
 Just trying to collect impressions before I purchase. Should really mention that I never heard a R2R DAC before.


----------



## Mediahound

Anyone know why the Gumby makes little click sounds sometimes even when it's not in use (and I think even if powered off and plugged in)? What exactly is it doing?


----------



## captblaze

mediahound said:


> Anyone know why the Gumby makes little click sounds sometimes even when it's not in use (and I think even if powered off and plugged in)? What exactly is it doing?


 
  
 that usually means the bit rate for the selected input has changed. powered off? I don't know


----------



## Mediahound

captblaze said:


> that usually means the bit rate for the selected input has changed. powered off? I don't know


 

 It makes little clicks even if the computer is off, different than the bitrate change clicks.


----------



## captblaze

mediahound said:


> It makes little clicks even if the computer is off, different than the bitrate change clicks.


 
  
 I will pay attention to mine, I never noticed anything other than input or bit rate relay clicks


----------



## sheldaze

^ Same.
  
 Even simpler, as long as I have input switched to something where nothing is connected, there are no clicks.


----------



## jcn3

I leave mine on all of the time but can't imagine how it would click if off. Mine clicks whenever the bit depth changes, whenever the input is changed or when a USB source is powered on or off, or the USB source goes to sleep or wakes up. All are normal behavior.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Sonic Defender

maximal112 said:


> Funnily enough exactly what I was thinking, better make the most of it while I still can. Was pretty good last year when I bought a new car


 
 Just wait. Still, the hotness factor matters, the hotter they are, the less we care when they rain on our parade.


----------



## zackzack

How does Gungnir MB pair with other brands of amplifiers? Is it a fussy DAC?


----------



## Mediahound

zackzack said:


> How does Gungnir MB pair with other brands of amplifiers? Is it a fussy DAC?


 

 I would say it pairs excellent. It's not an over dark or overly bright DAC. Just right!


----------



## EinZweiDrei

If i run this from rca out to a non balanced amp like the wa6se will it still be as optimum as in balanced? And how about from balanced out to balanced in on an amp with only a single end output like the heron 5.


----------



## Mediahound

einzweidrei said:


> If i run this from rca out to a non balanced amp like the wa6se will it still be as optimum as in balanced? And how about from balanced out to balanced in on an amp with only a single end output like the heron 5.


 

 As long as you're not using some funky adapter cable to try to convert balanced to SE, you will be fine. In other words, if your amp has SE inputs, use those outputs from the Gungir. 
  
 I do this for my powered speakers, and it sounds fine. 
  
 Of course, if your amp has balanced XLR ins, use those for the best quality.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

mediahound said:


> As long as you're not using some funky adapter cable to try to convert balanced to SE, you will be fine. In other words, if your amp has SE inputs, use those outputs from the Gungir.
> 
> I do this for my powered speakers, and it sounds fine.
> 
> Of course, if your amp has balanced XLR ins, use those for the best quality.


so will i be compromising gungnir mb's performance from the mjolnir 2's se out but balanced xlr out to xlr in. Not all my headphones are balanced.


----------



## Mediahound

einzweidrei said:


> so will i be compromising gungnir mb's performance from the mjolnir 2's se out but balanced xlr out to xlr in. Not all my headphones are balanced.


 

 You won't be compromising the Gungnir performance if you are going balanced into the amp. If you then listen to whatever amp in SE, then while it will still sound good, you will not be realizing the full potential of the amp.


----------



## EinZweiDrei

Thanks for the help. Im not familiar with balanced setups. I've only started thinking about going balanced recently.


----------



## mordicai

Everyone hears thing differently. I bought the Bifrost instead of the Gumby because in my experience( my ears, my stack), unless I have long  RCA or XLR cable runs, I do not hear a significant difference between Balanced and Unbalanced, and because I build Tube amps I like to keep thing as simple as I can.


----------



## Mediahound

My short video review of the Gungnir Multibit for those interested:


----------



## pavement714

mediahound said:


> My short video review of the Gungnir Multibit for those interested:





 The Gumby has sadly few videos/video reviews compared to other gear, will check it out tonight! Thanks!


----------



## mwb1

I've been listening to my 96/24 version of _Purple Rain_ a lot today through my Gumby.  Absolutely stunning.  This DAC continues to amaze me.


----------



## YugiRider2

Has anyone tried using an android phone as the source? I have no problems in getting a micro B to USB B OTG cable but I am worried I may need a powered up. The phone I have is the S7 Edge.


----------



## sheldaze

yugirider2 said:


> Has anyone tried using an android phone as the source? I have no problems in getting a micro B to USB B OTG cable but I am worried I may need a powered up. The phone I have is the S7 Edge.


 
 Your results will be highly dependent on the phone. That is because the USB input on Schiit DACs is indeed powered by the USB source. For example, an iPhone will fail displaying the error that the USB requires too much power. But some Android phones will still allow the power draw.
  
 If you have never used Android to send music to a DAC, you may also want to look at UAPP. Often the issue with Android has nothing to do with power draw, but simply getting Android itself to provide digital audio data. UAPP makes this simple, and is what I use.


----------



## YugiRider2

sheldaze said:


> Your results will be highly dependent on the phone. That is because the USB input on Schiit DACs is indeed powered by the USB source. For example, an iPhone will fail displaying the error that the USB requires too much power. But some Android phones will still allow the power draw.
> 
> If you have never used Android to send music to a DAC, you may also want to look at UAPP. Often the issue with Android has nothing to do with power draw, but simply getting Android itself to provide digital audio data. UAPP makes this simple, and is what I use.



Thanks for the reply. 
Does UAPP work with Spotify? And how exactly does it work with Tidal?


----------



## sheldaze

yugirider2 said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> Does UAPP work with Spotify? And how exactly does it work with Tidal?


 
 It works with Tidal, which I use.
 You probably best look in the UAPP thread for other streaming services. I don't use or know about Spotify.


----------



## gevorg

yugirider2 said:


> Has anyone tried using an android phone as the source? I have no problems in getting a micro B to USB B OTG cable but I am worried I may need a powered up. The phone I have is the S7 Edge.




I have it working with an iPhone and iPad, but you should use some kind of a wallwart powered USB hub in between since the Gungnir needs the 5V power on USB. Even if Android does not have the power drain protection like iPhone, the Gungnir will rapidly drain the battery on your phone.


----------



## chry5alis

+1 vote for using UAPP. I have used my phone as source with this app and it works seamlessly


----------



## thomascrown

New samsung Android phones can use external DACs without uapp, it comes with the os. I can use my m8 directly with the Spotify or tidal app with my note 5.
Edit: just did a quick test and it does work with the gumby as well, but as written above not sure if it's healthy for your battery, if I'm not wrong you can use a wyrd to power up your usb


----------



## maximal112

Officially ordered my gumby and now eagerly awaiting delivery, birthday present to myself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 probably soon to follow, Mjolnir 2 and Ether C's


----------



## tjl5709

maximal112 said:


> Officially ordered my gumby and now eagerly awaiting delivery, birthday present to myself
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Got all 3. You will not be disappointed.
  
 Happy B-day.


----------



## maximal112

ooh, It just arrived. got 2 lovely boxes from delivery driver at work, gumby and the wyrd I also ordered. Now just need work to finish so I can go home


----------



## mikebarber1

Eagerly awaiting delivery of my GUMBY, supposed to be delivered tomorrow. I thought long and hard about getting a Yiggy but reading the post from Jason where he said that is what he uses at home was enough for me. And it's $1K cheaper...


----------



## mwb1

mikebarber1 said:


> Eagerly awaiting delivery of my GUMBY, supposed to be delivered tomorrow. I thought long and hard about getting a Yiggy but reading the post from Jason where he said that is what he uses at home was enough for me. And it's $1K cheaper...


 
  
 I was in the same boat.  I went back and forth trying to decide between the two.  I actually had a Yggy on order that I cancelled right before I placed my Gumby order.  I'm very happy with my decision.  The Gumby holds its own very nicely.


----------



## Mediahound

Same here. Best DAC I've owned so far. My budget didn't allow for the Yggy anyways but to hear the Gumby sounds more 'euphonic' to many is like icing on the cake.


----------



## Bigbwb

mikebarber1 said:


> Eagerly awaiting delivery of my GUMBY, supposed to be delivered tomorrow. I thought long and hard about getting a Yiggy but reading the post from Jason where he said that is what he uses at home was enough for me. And it's $1K cheaper...




I just snagged a used Gumby too! I thought about the Yggy as well but ran across a good deal and thought I can always upgrade later on and not lose much if any on the Gumby

Any settings in Jriver 21 I need to do differently? I imagine I need the Schiit Windows drivers.....wasapi .....etc?


----------



## GokaiN

Hi guys,
  
 Just got my Gungnir and I'm freaking loving it.  Coming from a Grace Design M9XX, this thing is tremendous.  But since I got a Delta-Sigma unit, it's making me curious about the Multibit.  Does anyone have any experience comparing the two?


----------



## US Blues

gokain said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just got my Gungnir and I'm freaking loving it.  Coming from a Grace Design M9XX, this thing is tremendous.  But since I got a Delta-Sigma unit, it's making me curious about the Multibit.  Does anyone have any experience comparing the two?


 

 Rut-roh. Everyone on this forum who has done the upgrade will recommend it. If you are going to let the likes of us spend your money for you, just save yourself some time- box it up now and send it back to Schiit for the upgrade.


----------



## GokaiN

us blues said:


> Rut-roh. Everyone on this forum who has done the upgrade will recommend it. If you are going to let the likes of us spend your money for you, just save yourself some time- box it up now and send it back to Schiit for the upgrade.


 
 LOL, I felt like I knew this would be the response before asking, but what exactly does the MB do to make it so much better?  I feel like I've reached some point of a mountain that I'm climbing, but now there are clouds that block the rest of the view, and I have no idea how much further it goes or what exists higher up there.  (In this analogy, the higher the mountain goes, the better performance there is.  Strictly performance based, not price.)


----------



## ToddRaymond

gokain said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just got my Gungnir and I'm freaking loving it.  Coming from a Grace Design M9XX, this thing is tremendous.  But since I got a Delta-Sigma unit, it's making me curious about the Multibit.  Does anyone have any experience comparing the two?




I'd go back in this forum to around September of last year, and start reading ahead. I think that's about when people would have started sending theirs in to have the upgrade done (didn't it get released end of August?).

I'd have it done.


----------



## GokaiN

turdski said:


> I'd go back in this forum to around September of last year, and start reading ahead. I think that's about when people would have started sending theirs in to have the upgrade done (didn't it get released end of August?).
> 
> I'd have it done.


 

 Thanks for the approximate time, I'll check it out.


----------



## US Blues

gokain said:


> us blues said:
> 
> 
> > Rut-roh. Everyone on this forum who has done the upgrade will recommend it. If you are going to let the likes of us spend your money for you, just save yourself some time- box it up now and send it back to Schiit for the upgrade.
> ...


 

 I have an Yggy and original Gugnir (not yet upgraded) in my BR system. To extend your analogy: the Yggy will blow away the clouds, exposing brilliant sunlight, sparkling snow and ice, dark rocks, clean air, and the sounds of flowing water, calling birds, and chanting monks in the nearby monastery. You'll be just shy of the summit, but the view will be astonishing, and the word "clarity" will ring in the sky.


----------



## GokaiN

us blues said:


> I have an Yggy and original Gugnir (not yet upgraded) in my BR system. To extend your analogy: the Yggy will blow away the clouds, exposing brilliant sunlight, sparkling snow and ice, dark rocks, clean air, and the sounds of flowing water, calling birds, and chanting monks in the nearby monastery. You'll be just shy of the summit, but the view will be astonishing, and the word "clarity" will ring in the sky.


 
 My wallet hates you so much right now...
  
 But thank you nonetheless for catering to my analogy.


----------



## rnros

Not having it upgraded is not an option... But even so you do have two options.
 1. Send it back for upgrade.  2. Send it back for credit against Yggy.
  
 Have the Gumby since release and LOVE it.
 In addition to the incredible sound it also gave me the lust for the Yggy. Especially when I read a comment like the above from US Blues LOL.
  
 Time is money and you don't get any of it back,  uh, something like that.


----------



## mikebarber1

It also depends on how good your other equipment is, and how good your ears are. I just got my gumby today and had a hard time discerning differences between it and my Bifrost Uber aside from the Uber being obviously brighter in sound tonality. For my $ and current gear I think the gumby was the right level for me.


----------



## GokaiN

I did it, guys.  I ordered a Gumby.  Didn't go the upgrade route, as I'm looking forward to A/B testing it and keeping the Gumby if it impresses me (both the DS and MB were bought used).  Nevertheless, I'm frikkin' psyched!


----------



## US Blues

gokain said:


> I did it, guys.  I ordered a Gumby.  Didn't go the upgrade route, as I'm looking forward to A/B testing it and keeping the Gumby if it impresses me (both the DS and MB were bought used).  Nevertheless, I'm frikkin' psyched!


 

 I warned you this would happen if you let us spend your money. I do look forward to reading about your comparison listening, as I have a Gungnir that needs to be upgraded at some point in the future.


----------



## schneller

Thanks to several forum members here, I got to compare Gumby and Yiggy at home on my Dynaudio/NAIM system, one that is capable of resolving the differences between these two stellar DACs. The Gumby is cheaper, a little more analog and relaxed, and perhaps 90% as revealing as the Yiggy. But the Yiggy justifies its price premium with its absolutely addictive musicality and depth. It's the DAC for me. 

What I'd really like is for Schiit to remove the balanced XLR outputs and stuff the Yiggy into a box with the rough size and footprint between the BMB and GMB. And make it black! Charge $1700-1800 for it and I'll buy it yesterday.


----------



## Mediahound

schneller said:


> What I'd really like is for Schiit to stuff to remove the balanced XLR outpuys


 
  
 Why? It's a balanced DAC.


----------



## schneller

mediahound said:


> Why? It's a balanced DAC.




You replied before I could finish my edit. I pushed submit prematurely...

I don't need balanced outputs. I want Yiggy sound in a smaller package. Ideally.


----------



## GokaiN

us blues said:


> I warned you this would happen if you let us spend your money. I do look forward to reading about your comparison listening, as I have a Gungnir that needs to be upgraded at some point in the future.


 

 True, my inherent curiosity + all of this forum's fans piqued my interest too hard.  Alas, we shall see if all of the praise is legit!


----------



## Argo Duck

As you "just got my gumby today" yet just about everyone's advice is that it needs a long time to reach thermal equilibrium I'm really interested what you think in a few days or weeks... 



mikebarber1 said:


> It also depends on how good your other equipment is, and how good your ears are. I just got my gumby today and had a hard time discerning differences between it and my Bifrost Uber aside from the Uber being obviously brighter in sound tonality. For my $ and current gear I think the gumby was the right level for me.


----------



## dmhenley

So, I leave my Gungnir mb (purchased in September last) on all the time, but turned it off yesterday. Back on this afternoon - and, I swear I could hear it - initially, the sonic character was darker to me. I went away and left it playing - so, this is purely anecdotal, I know. But, the excellent sound returned slowly.
  
 Not sure if I'm under the influence or not, but wanted to note that my experience confirms what many have already said here.


----------



## Xeculus

mediahound said:


> einzweidrei said:
> 
> 
> > so will i be compromising gungnir mb's performance from the mjolnir 2's se out but balanced xlr out to xlr in. Not all my headphones are balanced.
> ...


 
  
 If the amp I plan to use the Gungnir with is SE input only, would it better serve me to go with a Bifrost MB?


----------



## tjl5709

You quoted about a previous post. The issue on using the MJ2 SE versus the MJ2 balanced is that the SE output provides much lower power than the balanced. Thus the statement about not getting the full potential.
  
 Yggy, Gumby, and Bimby are all built around the multibit platform. Though they are the same family, the resolution they provide is different. I would get the Gumby even though you are only using SE. It is much closer in performance to Yggy than bimby is to gumby. You also have balanced for any further options in the future. Remember, Schit built these to be upgradeable. Get the higher resolving DAC.


----------



## sheldaze

xeculus said:


> If the amp I plan to use the Gungnir with is SE input only, would it better serve me to go with a Bifrost MB?


 
 And noting your signature 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I will tell you shortly (I hope) how the Gungnir sounds with Black Widow. And I agree 100% with the above post - get the best DAC that makes sense for you, financially. For me there is also a physical element, in that my Yggdrasil does not tote well with me to meets, or fit into the smaller bedroom space that I have planned for the more intimate Black Widow / MicroZOTL2 setup.


----------



## Xeculus

Yggy definitely exceeds the amount of money I'm comfortable with spending on audio equipment. But I think Gumby's price is reasonable if there is enough of a performance difference between it and Bimby. I might ask Schiit if they're willing to let me get both and waive the restock fee if I decide to keep one (which 99% will happen!)
  
  


> Originally Posted by *sheldaze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I will tell you shortly (I hope) how the Gungnir sounds with Black Widow.


 
  
 Looking forward to your impressions sheldaze


----------



## RCBinTN

tjl5709 said:


> You quoted about a previous post. The issue on using the MJ2 SE versus the MJ2 balanced is that the SE output provides much lower power than the balanced. Thus the statement about not getting the full potential.
> 
> Yggy, Gumby, and Bimby are all built around the multibit platform. Though they are the same family, the resolution they provide is different. I would get the Gumby even though you are only using SE. It is much closer in performance to Yggy than bimby is to gumby. You also have balanced for any further options in the future. Remember, Schit built these to be upgradeable. Get the higher resolving DAC.


 
 I agree with this post and thought process, with the GMB having the balanced capability - that's where you will want to be going forward.  The GMB is a great DAC for the price - a good value.
  
 Enjoy your music!
 RCB


----------



## Xeculus

I really want to try both dacs to see if Gumby is worth 2x the price of bimby, especially since I see myself sticking with a SE only amp for the next several years... but it's $65 if I end up returning gumby .-.
  
 Deciding is hard, I don't know how you guys do it


----------



## gwitzel

After months of listening to Gumby in my louspeaker rig (and Earmax Pro and Lyr 2), I finally came around and bought a Bimby for my Lyr 2 so I can use it in my office.
  
 I have to say, it is a very different listening experience. Gumby is more grown up, but Bimby is very involving and has a sweet and smooth quality while beeing very detailed. Gumby stages better - by far. But I don't want to miss either of both.
  
 For the Lyr 2 I used Gumby single ended, and it was clearly a more natural display of the room where the recoding was made than Bimby presents. There is no question in my mind that Gumby is better both balanced an single ended. But again, Bimby is very interesting and a great solution for my office.
  
 Trying both is a good idea. If you are like me and love accoustic (live) music, you will probably end up with Gumby as your preferred choice. But by comparing them you avoid the nagging what-ifs, clearly worth $65 in my opinion.
  
 I will eventually post my impressions in the Bimby thread, it is still warming up. Is there a Schiit addiction help thread somewhere?


----------



## theveterans

The impressions you make of Bimby seems like my impressions of Bimby before its full break-in aka thermal equilibrium. When in thermal equilibrium, Bimby also presents the 3D holographic sound that Schiit Multibits are known for. That 3D sound has fooled me occasionally which made me thought there's someone behind my the back, but it was actually on the recording itself.
  
 Hopefully your bimby opens up the sound after full break in.


----------



## gwitzel

theveterans said:


> The impressions you make of Bimby seems like my impressions of Bimby before its full break-in aka thermal equilibrium. When in thermal equilibrium, Bimby also presents the 3D holographic sound that Schiit Multibits are known for. That 3D sound has fooled me occasionally which made me thought there's someone behind my the back, but it was actually on the recording itself.
> 
> Hopefully your bimby opens up the sound after full break in.


 
  
  
 Thank you, good to know! I can't wait for it!
  
 I cannot say anything really about Gumby's development in the first days because for both specimen we pocess I let it warm up for more than a week before properly listening to it (I was traveling). In a few weeks I will post my impressions and a real comparison.


----------



## Argo Duck

I look forward to this, as you have posted good, detailed and careful impressions in the past 



gwitzel said:


> In a few weeks I will post my impressions and a real comparison.


----------



## Spamateur

Is anyone else running the Gumby using both single-ended outputs? I'm having a weird issue where I have the Gumby feeding both a Peachtree Nova65SE integrated amp and a Violectric headphone amp, each from a separate single-ended output. My integrated amp's bass sounds really distorted and muddy unless my headphone amp is also on. This happens using both speakers and the headphone out on my integrated amp.
  
 In other words:
  
 Integrated amp ON + Headphone amp OFF = distortion
 Integrated amp ON + Headphone amp ON = no distortion
 Integrated amp OFF + Headphone amp ON = no distortion
  
 Weird...


----------



## sheldaze

spamateur said:


> Is anyone else running the Gumby using both single-ended outputs? I'm having a weird issue where I have the Gumby feeding both a Peachtree Nova65SE integrated amp and a Violectric headphone amp, each from a separate single-ended output. My integrated amp's bass sounds really distorted and muddy unless my headphone amp is also on. This happens using both speakers and the headphone out on my integrated amp.
> 
> In other words:
> 
> ...


 
 Cannot say I ever had exactly your setup, because while I would occasionally have both single-ended outputs connect to amps in various states of being on/off, I also always had my balanced output connected to a balanced amplifier, also in some random state of on/off.
  
 My guess is I've tried every variation, and never encountered what you are describing. I will certainly be testing for that as I currently have a single-ended amplifier, and another single-ended amplifier on order (my previous balanced amplifier is sold and a new one is on order, but 3 months off). I'll let you know if I hear any anomalies.


----------



## AudioBear

I have no idea what's wrong but will be fascinated by the answer! You'd sort of expect it to work the other way around wouldn't you?   Have you asked Schiit their opinion?  Their service is good.


----------



## Spamateur

audiobear said:


> I have no idea what's wrong but will be fascinated by the answer! You'd sort of expect it to work the other way around wouldn't you?   Have you asked Schiit their opinion?  Their service is good.


 
 Yeah, shot them a note to ask their opinion. I'm guessing they'll say it's something to do with either a grounding issue or a problem with my integrated amp since the distortion only shows up on the integrated and not the headphone amp. If anything, the amp is from Amazon so it can be returned with a minimum of fuss, but it's just a pain in the butt since I really like the amp.


sheldaze said:


> Cannot say I ever had exactly your setup, because while I would occasionally have both single-ended outputs connect to amps in various states of being on/off, I also always had my balanced output connected to a balanced amplifier, also in some random state of on/off.
> 
> My guess is I've tried every variation, and never encountered what you are describing. I will certainly be testing for that as I currently have a single-ended amplifier, and another single-ended amplifier on order (my previous balanced amplifier is sold and a new one is on order, but 3 months off). I'll let you know if I hear any anomalies.


 
 Let me know what you discover!


----------



## lukeap69

spamateur said:


> Is anyone else running the Gumby using both single-ended outputs? I'm having a weird issue where I have the Gumby feeding both a Peachtree Nova65SE integrated amp and a Violectric headphone amp, each from a separate single-ended output. My integrated amp's bass sounds really distorted and muddy unless my headphone amp is also on. This happens using both speakers and the headphone out on my integrated amp.
> 
> In other words:
> 
> ...




I don't have the Gumby but I have experienced the same thing recently.

Audio-gd DAC-19 feeding Schiit Ragnarok SE and Liquid Carbon SE. When the LC is off, there is a very noticeable distortion with the Ragnarok. Switched on the LC, the distortion is gone.

Replaced the LC with Lambert's PIBE, whether ON or Off, there's no distortion with the Rok. So I don't know if it is amp specific. Grounding perhaps?


----------



## YugiRider2

Just put a deposit down at Addicted to Audio in Sydney - looking forward to collecting it when there is stock.
 Sounded as good if not better as the Yggdrasil in the store - but then and again, the Yggdrasil there was brand new (I was the first person to demo it and requested it to be unboxed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and so hadn't been burnt in at all.


----------



## Argo Duck

Curious. What did you put a deposit down on 



yugirider2 said:


> Just put a deposit down at Addicted to Audio in Sydney - looking forward to collecting it when there is stock.
> Sounded as good if not better as the Yggdrasil in the store - but then and again, the Yggdrasil there was brand new (I was the first person to demo it and requested it to be unboxed :wink_face: ) and so hadn't been burnt in at all.


----------



## YugiRider2

argo duck said:


> Curious. What did you put a deposit down on


 

 Gungnir Multibit


----------



## maximal112

yugirider2 said:


> Just put a deposit down at Addicted to Audio in Sydney - looking forward to collecting it when there is stock.
> Sounded as good if not better as the Yggdrasil in the store - but then and again, the Yggdrasil there was brand new (I was the first person to demo it and requested it to be unboxed
> 
> 
> ...


 
 was gonna ask where the Yggdrasil was when I was there a few weeks back, turns out I missed out haha. Very happy with my Gumby so far though


----------



## Spamateur

lukeap69 said:


> I don't have the Gumby but I have experienced the same thing recently.
> 
> Audio-gd DAC-19 feeding Schiit Ragnarok SE and Liquid Carbon SE. When the LC is off, there is a very noticeable distortion with the Ragnarok. Switched on the LC, the distortion is gone.
> 
> Replaced the LC with Lambert's PIBE, whether ON or Off, there's no distortion with the Rok. So I don't know if it is amp specific. Grounding perhaps?


 
 Interesting. It does seem like it's amp-specific then. Potentially a grounding issue. Thanks for the input!


----------



## sheldaze

Well then I could post my results, but they probably would not help.
 Amplifiers I have used are:
  

JDS Labs The Element
Meier Audio Corda Rock
Schiit Valhalla 2
DNA Sonett
  
 All were used while Cavalli Liquid Carbon was plugged into the balanced outputs.


----------



## Spamateur

sheldaze said:


> Well then I could post my results, but they probably would not help.
> Amplifiers I have used are:
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Any results are helpful. The fact that @lukeap69 got the same effect when using a completely different DAC leads me to think it's an issue with how certain amps are grounded or designed perhaps. We'll see what Schiit says when they respond to my question.


----------



## Argo Duck

In that case very interested to hear what you think if you get another chance to compare Gumby and Yggy - this time with the latter in thermal equilibrium or 'broken in' or whatever.

OTOH it might be better you _don't_ compare again :evil:



yugirider2 said:


> Gungnir Multibit


----------



## Liu Junyuan

spamateur said:


> Is anyone else running the Gumby using both single-ended outputs? I'm having a weird issue where I have the Gumby feeding both a Peachtree Nova65SE integrated amp and a Violectric headphone amp, each from a separate single-ended output. My integrated amp's bass sounds really distorted and muddy unless my headphone amp is also on. This happens using both speakers and the headphone out on my integrated amp.
> 
> In other words:
> 
> ...


 
 Very odd. I always have all the outputs on my Gumby connected: XLR to my Xindak integrated amp and both RCA single-ended to La Figaro 339 and Cavalli CTH. I haven't noticed any issues when only one amp is on. However, I will do some tests to see if I can notice a difference and report back. 
  
 Best of luck solving this...


----------



## Currawong

lukeap69 said:


> spamateur said:
> 
> 
> > Is anyone else running the Gumby using both single-ended outputs? I'm having a weird issue where I have the Gumby feeding both a Peachtree Nova65SE integrated amp and a Violectric headphone amp, each from a separate single-ended output. My integrated amp's bass sounds really distorted and muddy unless my headphone amp is also on. This happens using both speakers and the headphone out on my integrated amp.
> ...


 
  
 Some amps short the inputs that aren't being used, either when switched off or another input is selected while switched on. The purpose is to stop the input interfering with the signals while a different input is selected. I found this out the hard way with an Audio-gd amp which I had to remove internal jumpers on to prevent the same thing happening with my Yggdrasil.


----------



## lukeap69

currawong said:


> Some amps short the inputs that aren't being used, either when switched off or another input is selected while switched on. The purpose is to stop the input interfering with the signals while a different input is selected. I found this out the hard way with an Audio-gd amp which I had to remove internal jumpers on to prevent the same thing happening with my Yggdrasil.




Thanks for the info Amos! That explains it. The LC has both SE & Balanced inputs. The PIBE has only one set of SE input.


----------



## sheldaze

currawong said:


> Some amps short the inputs that aren't being used, either when switched off or another input is selected while switched on. The purpose is to stop the input interfering with the signals while a different input is selected. I found this out the hard way with an Audio-gd amp which I had to remove internal jumpers on to prevent the same thing happening with my Yggdrasil.


 
 Fascinating!
  
 So to experiment, what I'll do is listen to my second single-ended amplifier when my first single-ended amplifier (MicroZOTL2) is both switched to the input from the Gumby and switched to the other input. And if there is an issue, I'll be certain to let the folks at Linear Tube Audio know. They've been highly responsive to issues I have had to date.
  
 My second single-ended amplifier may have a loop out, but it has no switched input.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## novaca

spamateur said:


> Is anyone else running the Gumby using both single-ended outputs? I'm having a weird issue where I have the Gumby feeding both a Peachtree Nova65SE integrated amp and a Violectric headphone amp, each from a separate single-ended output. My integrated amp's bass sounds really distorted and muddy unless my headphone amp is also on. This happens using both speakers and the headphone out on my integrated amp.
> 
> In other words:
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, I have connected LC and WA6-SE.
 LC must be turned on, otherwise WA6-SE sounds distorted...


----------



## Spamateur

currawong said:


> Some amps short the inputs that aren't being used, either when switched off or another input is selected while switched on. The purpose is to stop the input interfering with the signals while a different input is selected. I found this out the hard way with an Audio-gd amp which I had to remove internal jumpers on to prevent the same thing happening with my Yggdrasil.


 
 Amos, you nailed it. Just got this back from Schiit late last night (their support folks were working through their queue pretty late):
  
 "That means the Vioelectric is most likely shunting the inputs when switched off which is causing issues since the two outputs are paralleled. If you can disable the muting feature that would solve the problem."
  
 "I’ve commonly seen it, and based on the issue only happening with the Vioelectric off it sound like the case."


----------



## Xeculus

Reading these comments make me a little concerned partly because I'm not sure exactly what's going on...
  
 Does this issue only happen when two amps are plugged into Gumby?


----------



## sheldaze

xeculus said:


> Reading these comments make me a little concerned partly because I'm not sure exactly what's going on...
> 
> Does this issue only happen when two amps are plugged into Gumby?


 
 Yes.
 But it has more to do with the topology of the amplifier (specifically when the amplifier is powered off or switched to a second input) than it has to do with Gumby.
  
 If I am correctly following the 15 threads we share...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 You are planning to run XLR into Liquid Carbon and RCA into Black Widow (my plan too), and thus you will have no issues.


----------



## Spamateur

xeculus said:


> Reading these comments make me a little concerned partly because I'm not sure exactly what's going on...
> 
> Does this issue only happen when two amps are plugged into Gumby?


 
 It's not really an "issue" per se as it is not the fault of the Gumby whatsoever, and isn't a design limitation on Schiit's part at all. Any DAC with parallel single-ended outputs would have the same issue, it seems. Also, my workaround is pretty easy in that I just leave my Violectric amp on, but the headphone output of it switched off. It's more of a minor annoyance than anything, and is the fault of the muting feature of the headphone amp doing what it's designed to do. It's not a fault with any of the products involved, but just a funny interaction between different pieces of equipment.
  
 And again, this is only if you're using BOTH single-ended outputs, and only if one of the two amps shunts the inputs when turned off. 
  
 I love my Gumby, and this weirdness hasn't diminished that whatsoever.


----------



## Xeculus

> Originally Posted by *sheldaze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> But it has more to do with the topology of the amplifier (specifically when the amplifier is powered off or switched to a second input) than it has to do with Gumby.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha that's right! We can be gear buddies  
  
  


spamateur said:


> It's not really an "issue" per se as it is not the fault of the Gumby whatsoever, and isn't a design limitation on Schiit's part at all. Any DAC with parallel single-ended outputs would have the same issue, it seems. Also, my workaround is pretty easy in that I just leave my Violectric amp on, but the headphone output of it switched off. It's more of a minor annoyance than anything, and is the fault of the muting feature of the headphone amp doing what it's designed to do. It's not a fault with any of the products involved, but just a funny interaction between different pieces of equipment.
> 
> And again, this is only if you're using BOTH single-ended outputs, and only if one of the two amps shunts the inputs when turned off.
> 
> I love my Gumby, and this weirdness hasn't diminished that whatsoever.


 
  
 Good to know! Now I just gotta wait for gumby's "backordered" status to change


----------



## Bigbwb

My initial Gungnir MB impressions....
Equipment-
Ascend acoustic RAAL towers
Parasound A21 amp
Parasound P7 preamp
Parasound Zdac
Dedicated custom Music pic feeding dac via usb

I was able to A/B the two dacs by running a usb out of my pc into each dac, then balanced out from the Schiit and Rca outs from the Zdac into the P7. I use Jriver so I created two zones, linked them and played some tracks. By flipping the input on the P7 it was easy to toggle back and forth.

The differences were noticeable. The Schiit was more laid back, less top end sizzle. The Zdac was brighter. Tough to say which one is more true to source. I felt the Schiit had a cleaner background, an overall smooth sound. I only had less than an hour to mess around. Verdict is still out yet. Curious if others have had similar experiences? Does the multi bit Schiit dacs sound warmer overall and is this more accurate???

More to come!

Brandon


----------



## theveterans

> The differences were noticeable. The Schiit was more laid back, less top end sizzle. The Zdac was brighter. Tough to say which one is more true to source. I felt the Schiit had a cleaner background, an overall smooth sound. I only had less than an hour to mess around. Verdict is still out yet. Curious if others have had similar experiences? Does the multi bit Schiit dacs sound warmer overall and is this more accurate???


 
  
 Compared to Yggdrasil, Schiit tuned the Gumby and Bimby to sound laid back, warm and smooth while having excellent detail and excellent soundstage. I'd say it's more euphonic than accurate. The more accurate sound is the sound signature from Yggdrasil.


----------



## Xeculus

Very encouraging impressions! 
  
 Sounds like a great pairing for a HD800


----------



## Chillzone21

Need a dac that has XLR balanced outputs, could be a goer.


----------



## Xeculus

From this post:
  



> Originally Posted by *Stillhart*
> 
> 
> The GMB’s SE output sounds noticeably worse (mids are very recessed) than the balanced output.  This is very easily tested on the LC.  Do not buy this one if you are not using it in balanced mode.  Think of it as a balanced-only DAC.  For SE the DAC-19 is clearly better.


 
  
 This is kinda concerning...


----------



## Xiuquan Qu

hi guys I am going to buy LCD2 and wonder what dac I am going to buy, I am thinking either Multibit bifrost or Gungnir. Though decision for me, not as experienced. Any thought? Will there be a clear difference? between the two?


----------



## schneller

xeculus said:


> This is kinda concerning...




I've compared SE output of GD-19, GMB, and Yiggy at home on my NAIM/Dynaudio system. The GD-19 was the distant third of the three. Both pieces of Schiit were fabulous in different ways. I've never heard any of them balanced.


----------



## rnros

xeculus said:


> This is kinda concerning...


 

 This is NOT the case with my Gumby.


----------



## theveterans

> hi guys I am going to buy LCD2 and wonder what dac I am going to buy, I am thinking either Multibit bifrost or Gungnir. Though decision for me, not as experienced. Any thought? Will there be a clear difference? between the two?


 
  
 No brainer for Gungnir since you can always upgrade it to Multibit whenever you like it. You also get balanced output which is essential for very hard to drive headphones as well as getting the most out of the high end headphone amplifiers.


----------



## vhsownsbeta

xeculus said:


> This is kinda concerning...




Nothing to worry about, in my experience. BW is single ended and Craig made it the same dimensions as Gungnir for a reason...


----------



## crazychile

xeculus said:


> From this post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Grrr. Flashback to however-many months ago when someone started a rumor that the SE outputs were intentionally gimped to make balanced seem better. This of course is nonsense.
  
 BALANCED IS SUPPOSED TO SOUND BETTER! If it doesn't, its not a true dual-differential design or the other associated equipment is not up to par.


----------



## mikoss

Agree, this is Stillhurt's opinion ... I believe a more general consensus is that the DAC-19 is warmer and less resolving than Gumby. 

I agree with what was mentioned by others; amplifiers which offer both SE and balanced topologies should sound best in balanced config. Other amps that are specifically built SE can sound just as good, or even better than some balanced amps... It all depends on design and implementation.


----------



## Xiuquan Qu

I asked schiit info yesterday and they recommend bifrost multibit with lyr2. I don't intend to get a new pair of headphone in near future besides the lcd2. So I guess bifrost is good enough for me for 2-4 years?


----------



## hidehide

xiuquan qu said:


> I asked schiit info yesterday and they recommend bifrost multibit with lyr2. I don't intend to get a new pair of headphone in near future besides the lcd2. So I guess bifrost is good enough for me for 2-4 years?



Kind of having similar situation with you. Just got myself a LCD-3, and I'm planning to get Gungnir multibit as I don't plan to do any upgrade in the near future.. Ygg will be costing too much, plus Gungnir can have balanced output and you can connect to a balanced amp and active speakers..


----------



## Xiuquan Qu

Yeah I think for lcd3, gungnir fits better


----------



## earnmyturns

I'm considering a Gumby (or a Yggy) for my living room system. However, the integration I have with various audio sources pretty much demands a means of remote iR switching between digital sources: USB, coax, and optical. Is there/does anyone recommend a good quality gadget that takes optical, coax, and USB in and outputs coax or USB, with a remote control? Thanks!


----------



## gwitzel

xiuquan qu said:


> I asked schiit info yesterday and they recommend bifrost multibit with lyr2. I don't intend to get a new pair of headphone in near future besides the lcd2. So I guess bifrost is good enough for me for 2-4 years?


 
  
 Just listening to Bimby + Lyr 2 + HD600. I also have the Gumby for my speaker system and could compare a little bit (more to come later). Give the Bimby a week powered up (never switch it off again) and it will be spectacular and exceptional with the Lyr 2. I don't have the lcd2 but if your taste is anything close to mine I think you will be more than satisfied with that combination. If you would chance anything later on I guess it would be the amplifier, not the Bimby.


----------



## Xeculus

> Originally Posted by *gwitzel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Give the Bimby a week powered up (never switch it off again) and it will be spectacular and exceptional with the Lyr 2.


 
  
 Is this really necessary for Bimby and Gumby? A whole week? It takes that long to warm up?


----------



## gwitzel

xeculus said:


> Is this really necessary for Bimby and Gumby? A whole week? It takes that long to warm up?


 
 I knew I would get into trouble for that statement 
  
 I cannot be entirely certain, but my impression was that it indeed changes its character quite a bit and that it needs more than 1 day. I believe it went through two phases where the sound was a bit off-balance. For Gumby I don't know, I have only heard the DAC after it was switched on for a week (while traveling). 
  
 A week is probably an excessive margin, but if you don't switch it off it doesn't really matter. Bimby sounds great already out of the box. Just wanted to encourage you to try the Bimby + Lyr 2 setup and to give it some time to get used to your new rig.
  
 But I think we should maybe move this discussion to the Bimby thread.


----------



## theveterans

> Is this really necessary for Bimby and Gumby? A whole week? It takes that long to warm up?


 
  
 In my experience, the first use took at least 2 days for the soundstage to become holographic and timbre to sound right. After a month of use, the Bimby only takes 1 hour from cold to get the sound the way it should. Then again, I only turn off the Bimby at least once a month.


----------



## mikoss

First of all dude, the warm up requirements have been fairly well documented. Secondly, this is a ******* Multibit DAC with ******* thermal requirements, man. You can't turn it off. It gets upset. Its hair falls out. ******* DAC has ******* thermal requirements...

^-- just some Big Lebowski fun.


----------



## Sam Lord

xeculus said:


> Is this really necessary for Bimby and Gumby? A whole week? It takes that long to warm up?


 
  
 No, thermal equilibrium is approached after around a couple of hours.  But it takes nearly a month for them to break in.  The qualities of the materials change, mostly dielectrics.


----------



## feelingears

schneller said:


> I've compared SE output of GD-19, GMB, and Yiggy at home on my NAIM/Dynaudio system. The GD-19 was the distant third of the three. Both pieces of Schiit were fabulous in different ways. I've never heard any of them balanced.


 
  
 Hi, Schneller
  
 Excuse me if I missed an earlier post of yours, but what was your impression of the Gungnir MB w/ your Naim system? (I've decided I like listening to my Naim rig better than headphones--I know, sacrilege... Sorry.) I've heard mostly positive impressions (and purchases).


----------



## ToTo Man

I currently have 4490 and Gumby demo units in my possession (I still can't lay my hands on Bimby and Yggy) and I've just spent an interested evening comparing them.  Being demo units, both DACs are assumed to be burned in, however I only gave Gumby 3hrs warm up time, so I'll happily revise my findings if its sonic character develops further over the coming days.  The following impressions were formed using my main system with loudspeakers and not my headphone rig.  4490 connected to my A-S3000 single-ended, and Gumby connected to my A-S3000 both single-ended and balanced.
  
 Caveat: 
 In my system all three DAC outputs differ in level, confirmed by the watt/VU meters on my A-S3000.  The difference is very small, but audible nevertheless.  The single-ended 4490 is the loudest, followed by the balanced Gumby (my A-S3000 automatically attenuates balanced input signals down to normal line levels), and the single-ended Gumby is the quietest.  It's impossible to objectively evaluate DACs unless the output level is equal, so I tried as best I could to equalise levels further when switching between them.  
  
 Comparison #1 - 4490 single-ended vs Gumby single-ended:
 Gumby sounds smoother and more relaxed and natural than 4490.  It's not any less detailed or duller - in fact I was pleased to discover Gumby still has nice crisp highs - but everything seems more grounded and focused.  Instrument locations are easier to pinpoint, and transients are cleaner and shorter.  Gumby's overall presentation is smaller in size.  4490 sounds larger, more floaty and more dazzling, but it also sounds more 'digital' (strained/strident/etched) during busy passages.  4490 has some kind of digital 'ringing' or 'haloing' going on that I didn't notice until hearing Gumby, a bit like a 'hall' ambience/reverb effect.  In simple terms, Gumby sounds like the positive effect you get from adding some acoustic absorption panels to your room.  
  
 Comparison #2 - Gumby single-ended vs Gumby balanced:
 After level matching, I struggle to hear much if any difference between Gumby's single-ended and balanced inputs on my A-S3000, which is surprising because I heard a clear difference when I listened to a Mjolnir2/Gumby/Ether setup last year (the soundstage and imaging became more 3D/holographic, especially in the mids, through balanced)  My A-S3000 is apparently a "full floated and balanced circuit design that achieves complete symmetry and permits full balanced transmission", therefore I was hoping to experience a similar effect.  Perhaps the difference will reveal itself more once Gumby has been on a few days.


----------



## ToTo Man

I would be grateful for album recommendations that head-fi'ers feel really highlight the advantages of multibit and limitations of d/s.


----------



## joeexp

All of them!


----------



## RCBinTN

toto man said:


> I would be grateful for album recommendations that head-fi'ers feel really highlight the advantages of multibit and limitations of d/s.


 
  
 LOL at @joeexp comment above, but it was true for me.  A couple notes:
  
  - The upgrade from Gungnir to Gumby was the best $500 I've spent on this hobby.
  - All my quiet music like piano jazz, small ensemble jazz, acoustic guitar/voices became much more clear with better instrument resolution and definition - the music sounds way more real.  Not to mention classical - just over the top.
  - My rock and blues music took on more depth with better bass punch and faster decay than the Gungnir - actually filled out the bass and lower mids of the HD800 that made them quite good for rock and blues (the MB upgrade was the only change that I made at that time).
  
 If you want specific album ideas, try these:  EC _Unplugged_, Allen Toussaint _The Bright Mississippi, _3 Doors Down _Greatest Hits 2014_.  For vocals, anything by Melody Gardot.  You will not be disappointed!
  
 Hope this helps,
 RCB


----------



## theveterans

> Comparison #1 - 4490 single-ended vs Gumby single-ended:
> Gumby sounds smoother and more relaxed and natural than 4490.  It's not any less detailed or duller - in fact I was pleased to discover Gumby still has nice crisp highs - but everything seems more grounded and focused.  Instrument locations are easier to pinpoint, and transients are cleaner and shorter.  Gumby's overall presentation is smaller in size.  4490 sounds larger, more floaty and more dazzling, but it also sounds more 'digital' (strained/strident/etched) during busy passages.  4490 has some kind of digital 'ringing' or 'haloing' going on that I didn't notice until hearing Gumby, a bit like a 'hall' ambience/reverb effect.  In simple terms, Gumby sounds like the positive effect you get from adding some acoustic absorption panels to your room.


 
  
 Thanks for your Gumby's impression against 4490. I didn't expect that Gumby's presentation is smaller than 4490. I found that Bimby's presentation is wider than 4490 with same natural and relaxed sound of the Gumby. Also, Bimby doesn't present digital "ringing" or "floating details" that sounds metallic during busy passages. But Bimby is less resolving than the 4490 to my ears if you take away the digititus factor.


----------



## schneller

feelingears said:


> Hi, Schneller
> 
> Excuse me if I missed an earlier post of yours, but what was your impression of the Gungnir MB w/ your Naim system? (I've decided I like listening to my Naim rig better than headphones--I know, sacrilege... Sorry.) I've heard mostly positive impressions (and purchases).


 
 Schiit pairs very well with NAIM. Absolutely stunning really. A couple people over at the NAIM forum have reported the same.


----------



## ToddRaymond

That's cool (and I could see that being a good match). For what it's worth, I'm enjoying the Schiit out of my 'Gumby' feeding my Ayre pre and power amp. Speakers are Totem's 20th anniversary 'The One' monitors. It's really, really magical. I am curious to try either Totem's newer Element Fire, or Focal's Sopra No. 1 though. For now, I am well beyond content though.


----------



## ToTo Man

theveterans said:


> Thanks for your Gumby's impression against 4490. I didn't expect that Gumby's presentation is smaller than 4490. I found that Bimby's presentation is wider than 4490 with same natural and relaxed sound of the Gumby. Also, Bimby doesn't present digital "ringing" or "floating details" that sounds metallic during busy passages. But Bimby is less resolving than the 4490 to my ears if you take away the digititus factor.


 
 Thanks for the comparison of 4490 vs Bimby, that's very useful.  We all hear things differently, but [size=x-small]perhaps my description of a "smaller soundstage" isn't the ideal terminology to use.  What I meant was that the Gumby produces a more focused and intimate sound with a blacker background, like the performance was recorded in a smaller space with less reflections to distract from the direct sound, not that the soundstage has been dimensionally squashed with less space between instruments.  The 4490 by comparison sounds more diffused and the reverb tails do not fade to black as cleanly or quickly as Gumby.  To complicate things, it's difficult to say how much of these perceived spatial differences are influenced by the tonal differences I'm hearing between the two DACs, as the 4490 sounds more forward in the mids than Gumby to my ears.  I [/size][size=xx-small]guess that's why this hobby is so subjective!...[/size]


----------



## feelingears

schneller said:


> Schiit pairs very well with NAIM. Absolutely stunning really. A couple people over at the NAIM forum have reported the same.


 
  
 Cool, thanks @schneller! Yes, I had seen the same but it's always nice to exercise my confirmation bias! ;^)


----------



## McClelland

ttenu said:


> Got the Gumby last week. I didn't like the sound at first and preferred the Bimby (burned-in). After burn-in, the Gumby is clearly superior especially over balanced cable (solid copper Anticables).
> 
> Only one issue I had was an ear shattering blast due to a missed sample switch. I was using Jriver to stream my collection from a media server and upsample to 176.4 in integer mode. When Jriver is in exclusive mode, it changes your mac OS sound output from Schiit to something else like internal speaker. Jriver crashed and closed but continued holding onto the exclusive access to the Schiit. I wasn't able to change the system sound output back to the Schiit even though Jriver wasn't open. I opened Amarra for Tidal which gives direct access to the Schiit without going through CoreAudio system. This was a big mistake.
> 
> ...


 

 I experienced a similar volume blast one evening that left me with ringing in my left ear and a deficit between 4-8kHz on audiology exam. In my case I am pretty sure the extreme volume burst was music and not static.  Earlier in the day there had been three episodes when the music suddenly shifted from the headphones to the computer speakers.  I now understand that points to something gone awry in the USB signal path. These shifts occurred when the amp/dac was connected to two different Macs.  I was listening to a well-regarded solid state amp/dac  and the manufacturer has not been able to replicate the problem, nor have they suggested that the USB module might be implicated.  There is no evidence of any power surge, or anomaly in my electrical circuits and it has never happened before in 40 years of listening.
  
 I plan to purchase the Gumby/Mjolinir combo and want to do everything possible to keep this from happening again. One recommended solution is to use the toslink connection and avoid USB altogether. Both of my macs support 96/24 only, via optical output at the headphone jack.  I have come from room speaker systems and am new to these variables, listening largely to CD's, Tidal hifi, and a few HD tracks. I don't know if the sampling rate differences will make a difference in my subjective SQ.  I've thought the stellar quality of the HDTracks recordings of Amber Rubarth have come from the binaural recording and not the 192/24 sampling rate, but I'd be helped by other opinions.
  
 What steps could I take to protect against USB instability if I wanted to try USB?  Would adding a Wyrd to the G/M combo prevent these USB problems?
  
 At the time of the events I was unsure if it was related to my sound source. I was logged into Tidal but was listening to a VLC playlist. The amp/dac I was using did not disable the Mac volume controls. I've used other Schiit products and understand from them that all their DAC's disable the Mac volume controls, but the controllers in applications like Tidal, VLC, and JRiver still work. 
  
 Is there a way to disable all the volume controls whether in the Mac or the application so that the Schiit is the only controller?
  
 I've now come across four members with similar stories, without the persisting hearing deficit, and I wonder how many others there are.  I'd like to find out if there are more members who have had these experiences. What forum would be the best place to start a thread for gathering that data, where the most people might come across it? 
  
 Thanks, McClelland


----------



## McClelland

uchiya said:


> Even something like the Bose Mini Soundlink speaker can benefit from the lineout of this wonderful dac.  The soundlink serves conveniently as a speaker bar for my pc monitors and it's satisfying.


 

 Have been using my Soundlink III in the same way, playing through the Chord Mojo with notable improvement and I am looking forward to seeing what the Gumby will do.  McC


----------



## Ttenu

mcclelland said:


> At the time of the events I was unsure if it was related to my sound source. I was logged into Tidal but was listening to a VLC playlist. The amp/dac I was using did not disable the Mac volume controls. I've used other Schiit products and understand from them that all their DAC's disable the Mac volume controls, but the controllers in applications like Tidal, VLC, and JRiver still work.
> 
> Is there a way to disable all the volume controls whether in the Mac or the application so that the Schiit is the only controller?


 
  
 You won't get any volume controls with a Schiit DAC. That's good, you want to do volume control in the analog stage (headphone amp potentiometer). What you can do, if available as a feature, is give an audio application exclusive access to the DAC so that Apple's CoreAudio isn't trying to mix other streams into it. I gave up on Amarra for Tidal not because of its incredibly sluggish and unintuitive interface, but because it still allowed CoreAudio to mix system sounds and audio from web browsers into what I intended to be a bitperfect, exclusive connection from application to DAC.
  
 I've just installed Roon and find that it is stellar for my needs. It can easily do sample rate switching between 44.1kHz Tidal and local hi-res tracks of various sample rates. It can be configured to use exclusive mode which "kicks out" any other audio from getting into the stream, booting them to some secondary audio output like Internal Speakers or whatever else you choose. I would recommend this setup if you are concerned about ghastly sample rate errors, as Roon in exclusive mode dances wonderfully with the Schiit DAC from what I've experienced.


----------



## earnmyturns

mcclelland said:


> What steps could I take to protect against USB instability if I wanted to try USB?  Would adding a Wyrd to the G/M combo prevent these USB problems?


 
 The real problem here is that general-purpose computers (PCs or Macs) have too much going on in them concurrently, with apps and drivers fighting for I/O supremacy. That's one more reason the teeny dedicated Linux gadgets mentioned in the latest Schiit Happened are so attractive. I started withg a Cubox with Volumio ($100 for the hardware, $0 and a bit of my time for the software), although I'm now using somewhat more polished hardware and software (Sonore Sonicorbiter SE for one system and microRendu for another). These custom Linux distros minimize non-audio cr*p to provide reliable transfer from network and/or storage to USB audio. I use my general-purpose computers for general-purpose computing, and a NAS to store all my FLAC.


----------



## Astral Abyss

earnmyturns said:


> The real problem here is that general-purpose computers (PCs or Macs) have too much going on in them concurrently, with apps and drivers fighting for I/O supremacy. That's one more reason the teeny dedicated Linux gadgets mentioned in the latest Schiit Happened are so attractive. I started withg a Cubox with Volumio ($100 for the hardware, $0 and a bit of my time for the software), although I'm now using somewhat more polished hardware and software (Sonore Sonicorbiter SE for one system and microRendu for another). These custom Linux distros minimize non-audio cr*p to provide reliable transfer from network and/or storage to USB audio. I use my general-purpose computers for general-purpose computing, and a NAS to store all my FLAC.


 
  
 I've got a tiny little Intel NUC with a Skylake i3 processor in it running Windows 10 off a 1TB SSD installed in it.  As a bonus it has built in gigabit NIC, Bluetooth 4.0 and wireless ac.  I've got all my music on the SSD as FLAC files running through JRiver.  It's connected to my other computers via gigabit wired home network.  USB to my Wyrd, Modi2U (soon to be Yggy), and Ember, and Bluetooth to my wireless speaker (sitting on my workbench) when I don't feel like headphones.  Zero issues.  Runs great, sounds great.  As a bonus this little NUC handles 4k output to my monitor and plays Netflix perfectly.  So, don't be afraid to build a tiny Windows box for music.  It's more expensive, but it does more.
  
 ...oh and it has an IR receiver built into it for remote controls...


----------



## McClelland

I've been looking at my laptops the last week thinking something will probably need to change.  I'll need to get a handle on some other source.  This is very helpful in directing me towards some options.  In checking out both distros (what's a distro) I'm wondering where the display fits in so I know what I am playing?


----------



## McClelland

And Stoddard's post make me glad again that I just ordered more gear from Schiit.


----------



## McClelland

astral abyss said:


> I've got a tiny little Intel NUC with a Skylake i3 processor in it running Windows 10 off a 1TB SSD installed in it.  As a bonus it has built in gigabit NIC, Bluetooth 4.0 and wireless ac.  I've got all my music on the SSD as FLAC files running through JRiver.  It's connected to my other computers via gigabit wired home network.  USB to my Wyrd, Modi2U (soon to be Yggy), and Ember, and Bluetooth to my wireless speaker (sitting on my workbench) when I don't feel like headphones.  Zero issues.  Runs great, sounds great.  As a bonus this little NUC handles 4k output to my monitor and plays Netflix perfectly.  So, don't be afraid to build a tiny Windows box for music.  It's more expensive, but it does more.
> 
> ...oh and it has an IR receiver built into it for remote controls...


 
  
 Here's even more stuff to ponder.  I've good with the NIC, but what's an NUC? and Ember? I think of Ember as a language for building web-based apps. Did you build an app in Ember that enabled features or is there a device called Ember? Very intrigued with getting a remote into the chain.


----------



## Astral Abyss

mcclelland said:


> Here's even more stuff to ponder.  I've good with the NIC, but what's an NUC? and Ember? I think of Ember as a language for building web-based apps. Did you build an app in Ember that enabled features or is there a device called Ember? Very intrigued with getting a remote into the chain.


 
  
 NUC is just Intel's line of tiny PCs  (Next Unit of Computing)  Kind of a lame marketing name.  You can pick them up online or at places like Fry's Electronics and Microcenter.  Anyway, they come as an all-in-one box, minus RAM, storage, and OS.  So, I mean, you could put a Linux distro on it as well, if desired.
  
 Ember is my amp.  Garage 1217 Ember.  It'll likely become a tube-buffer preamp at some point, when my wallet recovers from the Yggy.


----------



## McClelland

thanks for that.  Google didn't get me to the Garage.  Just went with the Gumby/MJ2 combo to preserve a reasonable shape in my own wallet.


----------



## earnmyturns

astral abyss said:


> I've got a tiny little Intel NUC with a Skylake i3 processor in it running Windows 10 off a 1TB SSD installed in it.  As a bonus it has built in gigabit NIC, Bluetooth 4.0 and wireless ac.  I've got all my music on the SSD as FLAC files running through JRiver.  It's connected to my other computers via gigabit wired home network.  USB to my Wyrd, Modi2U (soon to be Yggy), and Ember, and Bluetooth to my wireless speaker (sitting on my workbench) when I don't feel like headphones.  Zero issues.  Runs great, sounds great.  As a bonus this little NUC handles 4k output to my monitor and plays Netflix perfectly.  So, don't be afraid to build a tiny Windows box for music.  It's more expensive, but it does more.


 
 Sounds like a good solution, but we are a Windows-free home 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I store FLAC on a Synology NAS, stream it via UPnP/DLNA to a Sonicorbiter SE (living room) or a microRendu (study), and control the streamers with BubbleUPnP (Android app on my various Android mobile devices). One difference between the microRendu and everything else in this discussion is that it is based on a custom-designed board and slimmed down Linux distribution that minimize all activity except reading Ethernet and writing USB, while the NUC and the Sonicorbiter are based on general-purpose boards with commodity power and signal distribution that is probably a bit noisier electrically and a bit less accurate in USB sample timing (jitter) than a custom-designed one. But you pay extra for that, and the NUC seems indeed a nice all-in-one solution.


----------



## earnmyturns

mcclelland said:


> I've been looking at my laptops the last week thinking something will probably need to change.  I'll need to get a handle on some other source.  This is very helpful in directing me towards some options.  In checking out both distros (what's a distro) I'm wondering where the display fits in so I know what I am playing?


 
 Distro == Linux distribution. There are several audio-specialized Linux distributions, including Volumio, Rune for ARM or Intel board, as well as the ones packaged with proprietary software for their streamers by companies like Sonore. The cheapest entry point I know is getting a CuBox-i2eX from SolidRun and run Volumio on it. If you want to avoid messing around with command line and complicated config menus, you can pay ~$300 for the same hardware with a bullet-proof, super-easy to configure Linux configuration ready to go from Sonore, branded as Sonicorbiter SE, which also supports Roon, Tidal and a lot of other streaming options. You can stream from music stored elsewhere on your network, or from an USB drive plugged into the second USB port on the CuBox.


----------



## McClelland

Thank you again.  I checked out the microRendu and the Sonicorbiter and found myself wishing I had several parallel lifetimes to dive into some of this stuff.  The good news/bad news for me is that I can be tenacious to a fault when troubleshooting whatever and chew up a lot of time, so paying for someone else to sort out all the command lines is the way for me to go.


----------



## earnmyturns

mcclelland said:


> The good news/bad news for me is that I can be tenacious to a fault when troubleshooting whatever and chew up a lot of time, so paying for someone else to sort out all the command lines is the way for me to go.


 
 I suffer from the same ailment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Even though I've been hacking Unix/Linux since the 80s, it's way too easy to get lost in twisty little passages all alike so I ended up moving to prepackaged streamers.


----------



## Amictus

schneller said:


> Schiit pairs very well with NAIM. Absolutely stunning really. A couple people over at the NAIM forum have reported the same.


 
 I'm looking forward to putting an Yggy between my Oppo 105 and the Naim Supernait 2 integrated amp. Need to find the money tree.


----------



## Turn&cough

Too lazy to sift through endless pages - would appreciate if someone could comment on Gumby's bass characteristics. Particularly if you own, or have previously owned, an ESS9018 based DAC.
  
 Thanks


----------



## sheldaze

turn&cough said:


> Too lazy to sift through endless pages - would appreciate if someone could comment on Gumby's bass characteristics. Particularly if you own, or have previously owned, an ESS9018 based DAC.
> 
> Thanks


 
 A touch more...
  
 I was comparing just this past weekend against my Ayre Codex. And I hope the suggestion isn't that every Sabre implementation sounds the same? But versus the Codex, which is probably more balanced from bass to treble (comes across more as additional treble information, not as lack of bass), there is just a touch more bass on the Gungnir.


----------



## Turn&cough

sheldaze said:


> A touch more...
> 
> I was comparing just this past weekend against my Ayre Codex. And I hope the suggestion isn't that every Sabre implementation sounds the same? But versus the Codex, which is probably more balanced from bass to treble (comes across more as additional treble information, not as lack of bass), there is just a touch more bass on the Gungnir.


 
 I haven't tried all the ESS DACs out there but the few that I did try did have a similar bass signature. I would like to think that the implementation in a 5K Invicta DAC would better that of a 1K DAC.
  
 I'm looking for tighter, more tuneful bass as opposed to more bass. Right now it's what's bothering me in my system. I could probably land a deal on a Codex but I'm looking for a different flavor than my current ESS based DAC (i.e. better bass)
  
 It may something else in my system that's causing the problem but I figured I'd start by trying a DAC that's reputed to have quality bass and work from there.


----------



## sheldaze

turn&cough said:


> I haven't tried all the ESS DACs out there but the few that I did try did have a similar bass signature. I would like to think that the implementation in a 5K Invicta DAC would better that of a 1K DAC.
> 
> I'm looking for tighter, more tuneful bass as opposed to more bass. Right now it's what's bothering me in my system. I could probably land a deal on a Codex but I'm looking for a different flavor than my current ESS based DAC (i.e. better bass)
> 
> It may something else in my system that's causing the problem but I figured I'd start by trying a DAC that's reputed to have quality bass and work from there.


 
 Sorry - when you said characteristics, I did not quite gather what you were seeking.
  
 The bass in the Gumby has a lot of expression. There is definite meaning to the sounds heard in the bass. One of my favorite tracks to listen for this is a Cello solo:
  

  
 I once mentioned that it makes my body move and sway to the music in ways that I would only expect in modern Hip-Hop, not Classical. There is much depth and detail to the bass. Yet it is most certainly, an overall warmish presentation - the Gungnir Multibit. And if you were looking for the most neutral presentation possible, that would be the Yggdrasil.
  
 Regarding Gungnir...
  
 Tuneful - yes!
 Tigher - perhaps, but likely depends on your personal perspective.
 More - just a small amount in the Gungnir, relative to Codex.
  
 Honestly, of the three DACs that I'm keeping as "bedroom" reference level, the Chord Hugo has the most tight bass. But it does miss other qualities that the Codex and Gungnir have plenty of. It lacks that last small bit of palpability, the texture, the thing that convinces me what I am listening to is real. Still very small deltas we're talking here.
  
 Best of luck!


----------



## landroni

turn&cough said:


> I haven't tried all the ESS DACs out there but the few that I did try did have a similar bass signature. I would like to think that the implementation in a 5K Invicta DAC would better that of a 1K DAC.
> 
> 
> I'm looking for tighter, more tuneful bass as opposed to more bass. Right now it's what's bothering me in my system. I could probably land a deal on a Codex but I'm looking for a different flavor than my current ESS based DAC (i.e. better bass)
> ...


 

 There is a concept around here bandied around now and then, the "Moffat bass"...
  
 As for ESS-based DACs, according to this user who has heard many DACs out there, there doesn't seem to be a tangible improvement in ESS-based DACs once you go above the $3K mark:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/804153/life-after-yggdrasil/90#post_12524423


----------



## Turn&cough

Yes I happen to have that soundtrack - very nice.
  
 Regarding ''Moffat'' bass. I remember seeing that somewhere which is why I was inquiring about the Gumby's bass. The Yggy's presentation might be closer to what I need but with the crappy Canadian dollar its price is just out of reach for me now.
  
 Regarding ESS DACs as you move up the price ladder that's fortunate/unfortunate depending on how much you paid.
  
 I'd like to think the $2850 Veritas with ES9028PRO chip will be different.


----------



## mikoss

I've heard Gumby, Yggy, the Invicta, and the Concero. Gumby and Yggy have a more natural sounding presentation to my ears than what I hear coming from the Resonessence Labs DACs. I found the Invicta to sound very detailed compared to other DACs... Until I heard the Yggdrasil which IMO blows it out of the water for detail retrieval. 

Notwithstanding MSRP, I find the multibit DACs to offer a uniquely natural, even keeled presentation. I have heard Sabre based DACs that I enjoy, but I think the AKM chips offer superior resolution without glare. It really depends on the implementation...


----------



## RCBinTN

The $500 I spent to upgrade my Gungnir to GMB is the best decision I've made so far with this hobby.  Making no other changes to the rig, the MB dramatically improved the SQ and, with the BHA-1 amp, made the LCD-X and even the HD800 shine.  If there are folks on the fence about whether to upgrade to MB, I can testify that it's well worth the investment.  Enough so that, while I've heard the Yggy and it's superb, I am happy right where I am.
  
 FWIW, YMMV.
 Cheers,
 RCB


----------



## mikoss

The best upgrade I made was buying a decent analog phono stage. I enjoy the multibit DACs, but I find analog sounds much, much better. How do you feel about vinyl RCB?


----------



## RCBinTN

mikoss said:


> The best upgrade I made was buying a decent analog phono stage. I enjoy the multibit DACs, but I find analog sounds much, much better. How do you feel about vinyl RCB?


 
 Well, I used to listen to vinyl all the time but then retired the old rig and donated all my albums, so currently have no vinyl in the house.  It's certainly making a come-back.  Our local Barnes & Noble has an entire section dedicated to vinyl albums now!


----------



## Bigbwb

Recently snagged a used Gumby Multi bit. All is well so far except one thing. I'm using both the balanced out and one set of the rca outs. Balanced goes to my Parasound p7 preamp while the rca goes into a Yamaha receiver to feed some zones around my home. Problem is the rca outs into the Yamaha sound distorted? I tried switching the rca outs (there are two) same issue. I've read this isn't the first time soothing like this has happened.

Any thoughts or suggestions? My Parasound Zdac which was hooked up exactly the same didn't cause any distortion whatsoever......

Thanks.


----------



## mikoss

Does the distortion go away when you unplug the XLR outputs? One problem people were seeing was amps that ground or short their inputs, which was causing distortion with the other outputs on Gumby. Maybe try just feeding the SE amp with the balanced connections removed.

FWIW I also had distortion occasionally on the SE outputs. I power cycled Gumby when this happened and it went away. Mine sounded like everything was clipping, it was terrible.


----------



## Bigbwb

mikoss said:


> Does the distortion go away when you unplug the XLR outputs? One problem people were seeing was amps that ground or short their inputs, which was causing distortion with the other outputs on Gumby. Maybe try just feeding the SE amp with the balanced connections removed.
> 
> FWIW I also had distortion occasionally on the SE outputs. I power cycled Gumby when this happened and it went away. Mine sounded like everything was clipping, it was terrible.




The family is in bed so I'll give it a try tomorrow! I'll try unplugging the balanced outs first. If this works would a solution be to use the two unbalanced outs of the Gumby only?

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Bigbwb

mikoss said:


> Does the distortion go away when you unplug the XLR outputs? One problem people were seeing was amps that ground or short their inputs, which was causing distortion with the other outputs on Gumby. Maybe try just feeding the SE amp with the balanced connections removed.
> 
> FWIW I also had distortion occasionally on the SE outputs. I power cycled Gumby when this happened and it went away. Mine sounded like everything was clipping, it was terrible.




Update,
So I had a chance to experiment tonight. To recap my setup is:

Gumby rca outs to Yamaha cx-a5000
Gumby rca outs to cheap Yamaha receiver in a bedroom
Gumby balanced outs to my Parasound p7 preamp

I tried disconnecting just the balanced cable, still distortion. I even swapped in/out different cables to rule that out. Only way to fix the distortion was to either remove the cheaper Yamaha from the chain or actually turn it on. Once it was on the distortion in the other zones was gone! I never had distortion through my p7 regardless of the scenarios. 

Any thoughts? It's odd tome that my previous Zdac never had this issue considering I used the exact same connections.


----------



## rdaneel

I'm really enjoying my Gumby, but am a bit surprised how warm it runs.  I assume that - like every other Schiit product I have owned - this thing generates heat and the aluminum enclosure warms up.  This is normal for this DAC, right?  Thanks!


----------



## joeexp

rdaneel said:


> I'm really enjoying my Gumby, but am a bit surprised how warm it runs.  I assume that - like every other Schiit product I have owned - this thing generates heat and the aluminum enclosure warms up.  This is normal for this DAC, right?  Thanks!


 

 Yes it gets a little warm -  Not to worry!
 This is totally normal. 
  
 Unlike some class A or tube amps, which you can barely touch if they have been on for a while.
  
  
 The Bimby I used to have, didn't get warm at all ...


----------



## sheldaze

bigbwb said:


> Update,
> So I had a chance to experiment tonight. To recap my setup is:
> 
> Gumby rca outs to Yamaha cx-a5000
> ...


 
 I quite recently (within the past couple weeks) saw report of someone having an identical issue. It is exactly as @mikoss described, which is your receiver is shorting the RCA output from the Gungnir when powered off. The Gungnir topology is not such that each of the outputs is entirely separate (probably best you look for the exact verbiage in this thread) so a short on one of the outputs causes distortion.
  
 Page 243, post #3632 contains the reference I recalled.


----------



## McClelland

bigbwb said:


> Update,
> So I had a chance to experiment tonight. To recap my setup is:
> 
> Gumby rca outs to Yamaha cx-a5000
> ...


 
  
 I'm curious about whether any of the distortion events resulted in higher volume output into your headphones?  Thanks


----------



## Bigbwb

sheldaze said:


> I quite recently (within the past couple weeks) saw report of someone having an identical issue. It is exactly as @mikoss
> described, which is your receiver is shorting the RCA output from the Gungnir when powered off. The Gungnir topology is not such that each of the outputs is entirely separate (probably best you look for the exact verbiage in this thread) so a short on one of the outputs causes distortion.
> 
> Page 243, post #3632 contains the reference I recalled.




Schiit support provided identical info, thanks! The question is, will a better (more expensive) Yamaha receiver not short the input? Obviously my good one cx-a5000 does not short the input while my cheaper bedroom Rx-v567 does. I just don't know which receivers do not short these inputs!

Anyone have any advice?


----------



## Bigbwb

mcclelland said:


> I'm curious about whether any of the distortion events resulted in higher volume output into your headphones?  Thanks


 

 I don't use headphones in my setup, sorry.


----------



## McClelland

ttenu said:


> Got the Gumby last week. I didn't like the sound at first and preferred the Bimby (burned-in). After burn-in, the Gumby is clearly superior especially over balanced cable (solid copper Anticables).
> 
> Only one issue I had was an ear shattering blast due to a missed sample switch. I was using Jriver to stream my collection from a media server and upsample to 176.4 in integer mode. When Jriver is in exclusive mode, it changes your mac OS sound output from Schiit to something else like internal speaker. Jriver crashed and closed but continued holding onto the exclusive access to the Schiit. I wasn't able to change the system sound output back to the Schiit even though Jriver wasn't open. I opened Amarra for Tidal which gives direct access to the Schiit without going through CoreAudio system. This was a big mistake.
> 
> ...


 

 I started a thread called Practicing Safe Sound: Hardware and Software Pitfalls in the intro forum looking for members to add any experiences with hardware/software glitches or user mistake that have caused a notable audio event like this.  Have PM'ed with Ttenu and know of at least four members with these experiences, fortunately none with hearing damage like mine.  I would appreciate any posts or links anyone might add to the thread in hopes of pulling collected experience together in a thread that might become a link on the Intro page like Baycodes thread about Hearing Safety.  Would have probably avoided my own experience as a newbie if I had known about  USB issues and I wonder what others I don't know about. 
  
 Thanks to member commentary here I am awaiting a G/M combo delivery from Schiit and will run with Toslink connection at this point. Thanks, McClelland


----------



## ToTo Man

toto man said:


> I currently have 4490 and Gumby demo units in my possession (I still can't lay my hands on Bimby and Yggy) and I've just spent an interested evening comparing them.  Being demo units, both DACs are assumed to be burned in, however I only gave Gumby 3hrs warm up time, so I'll happily revise my findings if its sonic character develops further over the coming days.  The following impressions were formed using my main system with loudspeakers and not my headphone rig.  4490 connected to my A-S3000 single-ended, and Gumby connected to my A-S3000 both single-ended and balanced.
> 
> Caveat:
> In my system all three DAC outputs differ in level, confirmed by the watt/VU meters on my A-S3000.  The difference is very small, but audible nevertheless.  The single-ended 4490 is the loudest, followed by the balanced Gumby (my A-S3000 automatically attenuates balanced input signals down to normal line levels), and the single-ended Gumby is the quietest.  It's impossible to objectively evaluate DACs unless the output level is equal, so I tried as best I could to equalise levels further when switching between them.
> ...


 
  


toto man said:


> Thanks for the comparison of 4490 vs Bimby, that's very useful.  We all hear things differently, but [size=x-small]perhaps my description of a "smaller soundstage" isn't the ideal terminology to use.  What I meant was that the Gumby produces a more focused and intimate sound with a blacker background, like the performance was recorded in a smaller space with less reflections to distract from the direct sound, not that the soundstage has been dimensionally squashed with less space between instruments.  The 4490 by comparison sounds more diffused and the reverb tails do not fade to black as cleanly or quickly as Gumby.  To complicate things, it's difficult to say how much of these perceived spatial differences are influenced by the tonal differences I'm hearing between the two DACs, as the 4490 sounds more forward in the mids than Gumby to my ears.  I [/size][size=xx-small]guess that's why this hobby is so subjective!...[/size]


 
  
 I've spent the last couple of days evaluating 4490 and Gumby using my headphone rig, and I seriously started to doubt my state of mind when I made the above comments because through my Valhalla / HD600 I was struggling to hear any notable difference between the 4490 and Gumby and even my existing Uberfrost!  However I managed to borrow a pair of the newly released HD800S, and the difference between the DACs on my headphone rig was finally revealed.
  
 Lesson to self: identifying the weakest link in your chain is crucial if you are trying to hear fine differences between DACs.  In my case the weakest link was my HD600.  A part of my wishes I'd never heard the HD800S, because now I KNOW what I'm missing out on!!!...


----------



## sheldaze

toto man said:


> I've spent the last couple of days evaluating 4490 and Gumby using my headphone rig, and I seriously started to doubt my state of mind when I made the above comments because through my Valhalla / HD600 I was struggling to hear any notable difference between the 4490 and Gumby and even my existing Uberfrost!  However I managed to borrow a pair of the newly released HD800S, and the difference between the DACs on my headphone rig was finally revealed.
> 
> Lesson: identifying the weakest link in your chain is crucial if you are trying to hear fine differences between DACs.  In my case the weakest link was my HD600.  A part of my wishes I'd never heard the HD800S, because now I KNOW what I'm missing out on!!!...


 
 On 3 of the 4 headphones I owned at the time of my Gumby purchase, I could not discern much difference between Bifrost Uber and Gumby. But I place the majority of the blame on my poor headphone amplifier as the weakest link in the chain. I agree - one of the headphones was the HD650 and I had trouble on it hearing the delta. I use it more today for enjoyment than deciding between products.
  
 But you need not use an expensive, specialized setup - just a nice set of revealing headphones, and an amplifier capable of letting the sound through. Though I own HD800/HD800S, I do the majority of my DAC comparisons on AKG K702 and a Schiit Vali (or just throw it onto my stereo speaker system).


----------



## mikoss

mcclelland said:


> I'm curious about whether any of the distortion events resulted in higher volume output into your headphones?  Thanks



Hey McClelland, sounds like a decent thread for advice. I can say the distortion was not an irregular/high volume event on headphones for myself. It just sounded like clipping distortion, most evident in female vocals. That crispy/crunchy treble crap that just sounds off. 

I would add that I have experienced high volume events with certain DAC/amp combos that allow volume control through Windows. It's quite plausible for them to accidentally go to full volume when they are initially plugged in, so I always check. I also experienced issues setting up DSD playback with some. With the Geek Out v2 for example, it played back "white noise" at a very high volume if the DSD setup was incorrect. 

Just some info for your thread.


----------



## McClelland

Ok with you if I copy this to the thread?


----------



## McClelland

Better yet, it would be great if you could visit the thread, add this as a post and do the poll.


----------



## ph58

Hi guys is the Gumby ( sound quality ) much better then the Standard Gungnir ? Thanks in advance .


----------



## theveterans

ph58 said:


> Hi guys is the Gumby ( sound quality ) much better then the Standard Gungnir ? Thanks in advance .




Even Bifrost Multibit sounds better than Standard Gungnir in terms of real life sound reproduction IMO. Zero harshness with Bimby. Gumby is a bit better in instrument layering than Bimby, both sound relaxed and effortless compared to delta sigma dacs


----------



## ph58

theveterans said:


> Even Bifrost Multibit sounds better than Standard Gungnir in terms of real life sound reproduction IMO. Zero harshness with Bimby. Gumby is a bit better in instrument layering than Bimby, both sound relaxed and effortless compared to delta sigma dacs


 

 OK thanks !


----------



## Dvdgreco

How does the gungeir compare to the metrum hex?


----------



## sahmen

dvdgreco said:


> How does the gungeir compare to the metrum hex?


 
 I would like to know the answer to this question too.  I have been curious about this ever since I read this comparison of the Metrum Hex and the Yggy on the Metrum Hex thread :
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/624003/metrum-nos-hex-flagship-dac/465#post_12026975


----------



## ph58

gungnir standart or Gumby compare to the Metrum Hex  ?


----------



## sahmen

ph58 said:


> gungnir standart or Gumby compare to the Metrum Hex  ?


 
 Gumby for me.


----------



## sheldaze

What's the street cost of a Metrum Hex? Based on prices I'm seeing in the reviews, would it not make more sense for it to compete against Schiit Yggdrasil?
  
 The comparison I did was between Metrum Musette and Gungnir Multibit, being much closer in cost. And I could certainly see (and hear) the advantages of both. More connections on the Gungnir is nice. Size and portability of the Musette could not be beat. And that it does not require 24 hours warm-up for use is an asset. Sonically, the Gumby still moves me. But the Musette has a touch more detail, and is quite musical in its own way.


----------



## McClelland

@RCBinTN Thanks for the advice about the Gumby and going with balanced connections.  I understand that things get even better with time on the Gumby/Moj combo but already it is really sweet.


----------



## rdaneel

Sorry for the basic question, but are both Gumby's SE and Balanced outputs active all the time?  I'm thinking of running it to a MJ2 for cans, but using the SE output to some active monitors (probably via a SYS for easy volume control).  Is it cool to leave both setups connected and just turn down the SYS when I want the music to play through only the headphones?


----------



## Mediahound

rdaneel said:


> Sorry for the basic question, but are both Gumby's SE and Balanced outputs active all the time?  I'm thinking of running it to a MJ2 for cans, but using the SE output to some active monitors (probably via a SYS for easy volume control).  Is it cool to leave both setups connected and just turn down the SYS when I want the music to play through only the headphones?


 

 Yes they are. The button on the front controls the inputs however, which are not all active at the same time.


----------



## rdaneel

mediahound said:


> Yes they are. The button on the front controls the inputs however, which are not all active at the same time.


 
 Awesome thanks.  I won't even have to change inputs.  PC>Gumby>MJ2 via bal + >SYS>Monitors via SE.  Works for me!


----------



## Dvdgreco

Sahman,
  
 I see that you recently purchased a metrum hex, I would be interested in how it sounds? I
  
 thanks


----------



## Sam Lord

rdaneel said:


> Sorry for the basic question, but are both Gumby's SE and Balanced outputs active all the time?  I'm thinking of running it to a MJ2 for cans, but using the SE output to some active monitors (probably via a SYS for easy volume control).  Is it cool to leave both setups connected and just turn down the SYS when I want the music to play through only the headphones?


 
 Quote:


mediahound said:


> Yes they are. The button on the front controls the inputs however, which are not all active at the same time.


 
 Quote:


rdaneel said:


> Awesome thanks.  I won't even have to change inputs.  PC>Gumby>MJ2 via bal + >SYS>Monitors via SE.  Works for me!


 
  
 Wait: it will function but there is a serious problem: the SE connection unbalances the line.  Your distortion on the balanced line to the MJ2 will go up.  Why?  The SE signal ground connection has a very low impedance.  The balanced circuit of the MJ2 amplifies the difference between the noninverting and inverting signals it receives, but now the inverting signal will be very close to zero.  That will certainly raise the common mode noise within the MJ2.
  
 If the impedance on the inverting line were raised to equal the input impedance of the noninverting line, the signal to the MJ2 would become balanced, but noise on the SE line could** become bad enough to damage equipment.
  
 This situation happens all the time and it sucks.  Really you need to go all-SE or all-balanced.  Then you can use y-splits or splitter boxes to distribute the signals, ideally at the the source end.  This is why we should urge that builders create units with multiple buffered outputs from any devices that control volume: the buffers are simply zero-gain amps (=transimpedance stages) that isolate the loads.  2+ channel DACs like the Exasound E28 do this and much more, but reduce performance to keep the price low.  If you want clean, unsplit interconnects to either biamp or run subs, you need buffers.  These are exceedingly rare in consumer audio.  Please join our little revolution!
  
 **I have never done this by accident (just lucky!), speculating now.
  
 EDIT: I thought I better check the Gungnir manual just to be *certain* that the signal lines of the SE outputs just use the balanced noninverting line directly.  They do, and the copy has an error:
  
 "While the single-ended outputs
 are summed from the hardware-balanced outputs..."
  
 Not correct: they are not summed.  Very good buffering adds a lot of cost.  The Gungnir is too inexpensive to include those circuits.


----------



## sahmen

dvdgreco said:


> Sahman,
> 
> I see that you recently purchased a metrum hex, I would be interested in how it sounds? I
> 
> thanks


 
 The Hex is extremely detailed and very resolving, without making the music uninvolving or giving rise to any fatigue. It has great extension in both directions and creates  great soundstage, while conveying grand, airy, ambient stage/concert hall acoustic effects well when they are present in the recordings.  This is a gungnir thread so let me not get carried away, and keep things simple.  Suffice it to say that it is the best I have heard yet, within the limitations of my own systems and budget, and is definitely a keeper.
  
 Signal path so far:
  
 Macmini/Amara ==>Regen==>Stello U3/USB==>>Metrum Hex (Aes/EBU in, Balanced out))==>> Cavalli Liquid Carbon (Balanced)==>> HD800/Beyerdynamic T1


----------



## Baldr

> Originally Posted by *Sam Lord* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> (snip)
> 
> ...


 
  
 To the contrary, the SE output is summed on the Gungnir original and the Gungnir MB.  Absolutely, unequivocally, without error, in writing AND physically.  ANYTHING else is a false report.


----------



## rdaneel

Thanks, Mike, for the clarification. Does that mean using the balanced outs to MJ2 and single ended outs to a SYS and active speakers will not degrade the quality of either output? Thanks in advance, I appreciate getting input from "the source!"


----------



## Jason Stoddard

rdaneel said:


> Thanks, Mike, for the clarification. Does that mean using the balanced outs to MJ2 and single ended outs to a SYS and active speakers will not degrade the quality of either output? Thanks in advance, I appreciate getting input from "the source!"


 

 Correct. They are summed with an active, discrete circuit, so loading the SE outputs will have zero effect on the balanced outputs.
  
 And yes, Mike is correct, as is all of our documentation. When we say "summed," that means "active, discrete summing circuitry," contrary to any expectations of price. Same thing when we say "balanced." That means balanced, differential, 4-gang pot, no conversion to SE, etc, all the way through. We say what we mean and mean what we say.


----------



## rdaneel

Awesome. Thank you, gentlemen.


----------



## Sam Lord

baldr said:


> To the contrary, the SE output is summed on the Gungnir original and the Gungnir MB.  Absolutely, unequivocally, without error, in writing AND physically.  ANYTHING else is a false report.


 
  
 Mike, please accept my apology.  I based my statement on my personal interpretation of two sections in the manual, and the lack of clarity in two other parts.
  
 First, the SE outputs provide the same voltage as one *would expect* from a simple connection of the balanced noninverting output to the SE signal output (2Vrms).  So the summing to SE in the Gungnir requires a 6dB attenuation to bring that voltage down.  That isn't hard to accomplish, but means extra high-quality components.  It seems to me that summing is the higher-quality way to make the SE circuit than simply buffering the noninverting balanced output, which most sane builders would do.  And I mean sane in the *business* sense only.  You also could have avoided attenuation with the RCA outputs, leaving the summed level at 4dB, but I respect that you decided on conforming with a standard that most SE gear (like a CD player) uses.
  
 Second, the manual states: "2 XLR Balanced Outputs. If the rest of your gear is balanced, use XLR cables to connect Gungnir to their inputs from these outputs."
  
 Since the XLRs are analog outputs, I read this to mean "the rest of your gear" as *any* electronics downstream of the Gungnir.  The manual doesn't say you shouldn't connect XLR outputs and SE outputs at the same time, but most gear in this price range doesn't buffer those outputs.  The case where someone has both SE and balanced electronics after the source isn't specifically addressed.  There isn't any error in the manual, but I incorrectly assumed the typical case where the outputs aren't summed. 
  
 Again, my deepest apologies, because with the Gungnir you have built a unit with better capability and safety than even your manual implies (IMO).  I think the manual should clearly state that using all outputs simultaneously works fine. i.e. with no sonic cost whatsoever, because that's a big deal for many users.
  
 I also hope that you consider a change: to change to 2 XLR output pairs and one (or still 2) RCA pairs.  This would allow biamping with clean, separated XLR interconnects, and enable subs (which usually have their own attenuation) to be connected with the buffered SE outputs.
  
 Thank you for correcting my mistake, and I'm sorry to have given false information.


----------



## Baldr

sam lord said:


> Mike, please accept my apology.  I based my statement on two sections in the manual, and the lack of clarity in two other parts.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ...


 
  
 Apology of course accepted - we all do our best whenever possible.
  
 The reason for 1 only output set RCA + XLR is because that would drag analog grounds too close to clocks and digital areas of the Gumby.  One would be far better off to use Y connectors outside the chassis.
  
 Thanks for your query and interest!


----------



## Sam Lord

baldr said:


> Apology of course accepted - we all do our best whenever possible.
> 
> The reason for 1 only output set RCA + XLR is because that would drag analog grounds too close to clocks and digital areas of the Gumby.  One would be far better off to use Y connectors outside the chassis.
> 
> Thanks for your query and interest!


 
  
 Thank you Mike, both for your gracious note and added explanation!


----------



## hpnutz

Friends,
  
 Question: I have an Aurender N-100H feeding the USB of my GMB.  Would I notice any improvement in sound quality using a USB/SPDIF(BNC) converter as that seems to be Schiit's preferred input on the GMB?  The Aurender has a great USB output already. Or am I chasing only very modest gains? 
  
 Thanks


----------



## crazychile

hpnutz said:


> Friends,
> 
> Question: I have an Aurender N-100H feeding the USB of my GMB.  Would I notice any improvement in sound quality using a USB/SPDIF(BNC) converter as that seems to be Schiit's preferred input on the GMB?  The Aurender has a great USB output already. Or am I chasing only very modest gains?
> 
> Thanks


 

 The short answer is "probably yes", but judging from some of the threads that are experimenting with this, the solution is pretty expensive and involves multiple boxes. This is an area that seems to be changing dramatically by the month, so what I'm doing is waiting this out for a while until things stabilize a bit.
  
 This months favorites seem to be $1000 or more. When things settle, maybe someone will have a solution for less than half of that. Currently that extra $1k could bump you into a Yggdrasil, which would likely make a bigger difference.


----------



## hpnutz

Thx crazychile- But you know how hard it is to be patient!


----------



## PoRidge

Hi,
  
 I am new to the Schiit game, currently using Gumby/Mjolnir 2. I noticed that they get pretty warm after use. This does not bother me. What does is that, will it get better performance when they get warm? Do you need to warm it up before use every time? I read somewhere that a warm up period of 24hrs is recommended by the reviewer. Then it would be ridiculous for my use.
  
 Any experience on this?


----------



## mordicai

YES IT NEEDS TO BE WARM TO FUNCTION CORRECTLY. YOUR NOT SUPOSSED TO TURN IT OFF!


----------



## Argo Duck

^^ That's to say, *you're not supposed to turn off Gumby (MB Gungnir)*. It's because of the type of DAC chip used and power penalty is slight.

Mjolnir 2 is different. Turn it off when not in use to extend tube life. Tubes can sound good within minutes. No need for 24 hours!


----------



## PoRidge

thanks for that. if it does not affect the dac life, it is fine for me. enjoying it very much and i don't think i will have the need to upgrade in a few years(before i get to speakers maybe)


----------



## reddog

poridge said:


> thanks for that. if it does not affect the dac life, it is fine for me. enjoying it very much and i don't think i will have the need to upgrade in a few years(before i get to speakers maybe)



I own both the Gungnir Multibit and the Yggdrasil and I rarely turn my two great Schiit dacs off. The only time I turn them off is during violent close hitting thunderstorms. However I never leave my amps on for extended periods, unless, I am listening to the headphones. Furthermore I never leave my tube amps on for the extended periods, tubes cost to much to just leave a tube amp on, while I wonder about the house.


----------



## Ableza

^^ good advice.  My Yggdrasil has not been turned off since I received it last April.


----------



## cbl117

jason stoddard said:


> Correct. They are summed with an active, discrete circuit, so loading the SE outputs will have zero effect on the balanced outputs.
> 
> And yes, Mike is correct, as is all of our documentation. When we say "summed," that means "active, discrete summing circuitry," contrary to any expectations of price. Same thing when we say "balanced." That means balanced, differential, 4-gang pot, no conversion to SE, etc, all the way through. We say what we mean and mean what we say.


 
  
 Could I run both a Lyr 2 (SE) and MJ2 (BAL) off a single Gumby, and just keep the amp I don't want to use either off or volume turned all the way down?  I'm going to upgrade to a gumby and like the idea of having an amp for both SE and balanced.


----------



## rdaneel

From what I have been told, yes, you can run both and simply turn on the amp you want.  One question - why not use just the MJ2?  It has both outputs, no?


----------



## cbl117

rdaneel said:


> From what I have been told, yes, you can run both and simply turn on the amp you want.  One question - why not use just the MJ2?  It has both outputs, no?




True, but the SE outputs on the MJ are not as powerful as Lyr2.


----------



## McClelland

cbl117 said:


> True, but the SE outputs on the MJ are not as powerful as Lyr2.


 

 Not as powerful as in ability to drive high impedence phones?


----------



## Enil

I'm pretty new to all this audio stuff, but I gotta say, it's a great hobby to have. I just went and bought a Gumby, and am entirely pleased with the decision. I was a little hesitant at first, because I was expecting the difference compared to my Modi 2 to be subtle, and I wasn't sure if my entirely untrained ears would be able to tell the difference. Well, the difference was definitely not subtle; I lack the vocabulary to describe it, but it's got this richness that is just mesmerizing.
  
 Planning for the next step, which admittedly probably won't be for a while, maybe someone can offer some advice. I'm using the Gumby with the STAX SR-3170 system, and Magni 2 with the HD600 currently, but I'd like to try a balanced amp with either an HD800 or an Ether. I know the Mjolnir 2 would be the logical upgrade, but I am tempted to go with the Ragnarok and add some speakers for my desk setup. Is the Gumby and Rag a good fit as well?


----------



## McClelland

enil said:


> Planning for the next step, which admittedly probably won't be for a while, maybe someone can offer some advice. I'm using the Gumby with the STAX SR-3170 system, and Magni 2 with the HD600 currently, but I'd like to try a balanced amp with either an HD800 or an Ether. I know the Mjolnir 2 would be the logical upgrade, but I am tempted to go with the Ragnarok and add some speakers for my desk setup. Is the Gumby and Rag a good fit as well?


 
 I have no experience with Stax, but am now listening with a rig that grew out of similar questions. I am new to the headphone world and started with the Magni2/Modi2 combo driving used Audeze LCD-Xs and loved that setup as a placeholder while I sorted out upgrades. I considered going right to the Yiggy/Rag combo but I was drawn to the MJ2 because I wanted to explore tubes.  I didn't do an extensive search, in part because I didn't readily come across a tube amp with the reputation of MJ2 at that price. I considered a Yiggy/MJ2 combo, but found enough opinion through PM's and forums to persuade me that the Gumby would be close enough in overall SQ to the Yiggy to be very satisfying and it has been. I've since added used HD800 headphones, so here are some thoughts.
 1. I wasn't drawn to the Gumby/Rag combo because I don't intend to return to a full room speaker set-up. I am interested in powered speakers for near-field listening at my work desk and there are a number of interesting setups that would run from the MJ2. There are also high-efficiency speakers that can be powered straight from the headphone output jacks with adapter cables. I realized I didn't need the full amplifier capacity of the Ragnarok.
 2. I do like the sound of tubes and look forward to comparing more. I have the LISST set up for the MJ2 and may try it at some point, but haven't been drawn to it.
 3. I find the Gumby/MJ2 to be totally satisfying at this point and I'll likely be staying with it for sometime. The savings from buying the Gumby/MJ2 are helping to fund more exploring in other directions. I'd like to experiment with other tubes, more binaural recordings, EQ, SonarWorks Reference plug-ins, and try Roon for awhile.  I don't hesitate as much now.
 4. I love the sound of both LCD-Xs and the HD800s through the Gumby/MJ2 combo and am fascinated with how different they are and how satisfying they both are in their different ways.  I know there are lots of thoughts about the best mating for both, but I suspect the Gumby/MJ2 is doing a very reputable job of driving both.
 5. This maybe heresy, but I have been playing around with an inexpensive Yamaha powered subwoofer, taken from a home theater set up, playing it through the MJ2 along with the HPs and I quite like it for bringing some of the visceral feel of the music back into play.  With a powered three speaker, near-field system running from the MJ2 I would have the option to play the sub with the HPs or play the near-field system when I wanted to hear speakers.
 5. You would have a balanced system with either the Rag or the MJ2 so that is not a determinate, but IMO there was a definite improvement when I went to an all balanced cable setup.
  
 I hope some of this helps.


----------



## Enil

Yeah thanks! I'd considered going with powered speakers before, but I had been looking at entry level stuff. Maybe it's time to go back and do some more research.


----------



## rdaneel

I'm curious what folks like for powered speakers.  I'm considering something that would work on my desk (so hopefully less than 10" deep) and go low enough (which I know contradicts my size concerns) to be an upgrade from my old Logitech 2.1 system.  The JBLs look good and are not too expensive.  I don't want to drop $500+ on this - if I want amazing sound I'll just pick up the headphones.


----------



## sahmen

rdaneel said:


> I'm curious what folks like for powered speakers.  I'm considering something that would work on my desk (so hopefully less than 10" deep) and go low enough (which I know contradicts my size concerns) to be an upgrade from my old Logitech 2.1 system.  The JBLs look good and are not too expensive.  I don't want to drop $500+ on this - if I want amazing sound I'll just pick up the headphones.


 
 I have been using the Emotiva Airmotiv 5s and 6s in two different near-field systems, and they have never given me any reason to believe something vital was missing from the soundscape they produce.  The 6s has the most potent low end, but 5s and the 4s are no slouches either


----------



## rnros

cbl117 said:


> True, but the SE outputs on the MJ are not as powerful as Lyr2.


 

 Also True: MJ2 SE sounds better than Lyr2. It's not just about the numbers.


----------



## rdaneel

Thanks very much.  I've had my eye on the Airmotivs, but haven't found a good used set of the newer 4s or 5s.


----------



## DelsFan

I have a set of these $150 electrostatic speakers from FPS (model 200 or 215), with "mid-woofer".  They are decent for computer speakers but I cannot find that they are available anymore.
  

  
 I also had a pair of (also $149) M-Audio monitors, Model Studiophile AV-40 and I can't remember them being bad (thinking back, I actually built some stands to get them at ear level, placed Vibrapods underneath, and used some $200/pair RCA interconnects I had laying around).  I think these were OK speakers or I'd remember...  I actually still have them on top of the kitchen cabinets for listening to Pandora from the laptop and they work great.  Don't know about audiophile accuracy though. The M-Audio site says these speakers are shielded for use next to a monitor which I'd think is kind of a necessity.  
  
 M-Audio makes at least three kinds of small powered speakers - black wood, carbon, and stained wood for seemingly $150 to $250.  I don't have time to look thoroughly but it seems not all their speakers are shielded.  These three-way powered speakers pictured below don't look too bad, Model M3-8.  Can't see they are shielded though...
  

  
 I haven't compared the sound of any of these speakers; I only know they are not terrible and when you watch the guy playing bass on YouTube you can actually hear notes being played (as opposed to literally hearing no bass at all with TV or computer monitor speakers).
  
 I have had a Linn Sondek Turntable and still have a Linn Genki CD player, to play through Thiel CS2 speakers, let's say a $5000 setup or more in today's dollars.  So if the M-Audio speakers were awful maybe I'd recognize it.  I researched decent powered desktop speakers seven and five years ago when making these purchases and pretty much squat was available as far as reviews.  So, in two rare times of spending money with no "engineering" data or rigorous reviews to go on, I made these two not too expensive purchases and am not unhappy.
  
 Don't know if I've helped you any, but that was/is my experience.
  
*Addition: after going to the Emotive website - they are a "real", complete, audio company; (assuming they are shielded) I'd not hesitate to get a pair of their Airmotiv 4, 5, or 6 speakers and be content.  *
 _____________________________
  
 I forgot, I've also used this Behringer UCA 202 Interface ($20?), which is essentially a super cheap DAC one can use to bypass the even cheaper sound card one might have in their desktop?  Anyway, here it is; it works fine for me now in the kitchen, between my wife's MacBook Pro and the M-Audio speakers.  It has an optical out also, if one should ever need it.
  

  
  
  
*I'd think $30 to $99 spent on a Fiio or similar DAC along with any of the Airmotivs would be a pretty darn acceptable solution.*
 ___________________________________________
  
 Good Lord, how did we get to this from Gungnir comments and opinions?  Sorry to (continue to) hijack this thread, but there must be thousands of us who would like to have a decent pair of computer speakers instead of the $3 Logitecs that used to come with one's desktop.


----------



## schneller

rdaneel said:


> I'm curious what folks like for powered speakers.  I'm considering something that would work on my desk (so hopefully less than 10" deep) and go low enough (which I know contradicts my size concerns) to be an upgrade from my old Logitech 2.1 system.  The JBLs look good and are not too expensive.  I don't want to drop $500+ on this - if I want amazing sound I'll just pick up the headphones.




Take a look at the Dynaudio Lyd series as well as the Xeo2, Xeo4, and Excite X14A.


----------



## joeexp

Schiit Gungnir DAC Thread >>> Officially off-topic!


----------



## Ableza

Forum cops go home.


----------



## dc71

Hi, I'm about to pull the trigger on a Gumby, but I need to choose a source.

It's between a bluesound node 2 feeding via toslink or rca, and a microRendu feeding via gumby's USB gen2.

Does anyone have experience of a direct comparison between these two sources with gumby? With either I would be prepared to add a good quality LPS and decent cables in order to get the best from them.


----------



## Vigrith

dc71 said:


> Hi, I'm about to pull the trigger on a Gumby, but I need to choose a source.
> 
> It's between a bluesound node 2 feeding via toslink or rca, and a microRendu feeding via gumby's USB gen2.
> 
> Does anyone have experience of a direct comparison between these two sources with gumby? With either I would be prepared to add a good quality LPS and decent cables in order to get the best from them.


 
  
 I've no experience with either of those (yet), however after extensive research as well as being in contact with extremely knowledgeable people whose systems cost double, triple, or more than quadruple of mine and that have tested plenty of streamers/sources I have ordered a microRendu - it has been described to me by more than one person as the best music platform out right now when it comes to pure sound quality, outperforming others upward of pretty much 10 thousand dollars. If that's the case and if you want a 100% clean source I don't think you can go wrong for $650 (+ an upgraded LPS if you want one, I've been advised to).
  
 I'd imagine it will have no problem working with the Gumby or any other DAC.


----------



## earnmyturns

dc71 said:


> Hi, I'm about to pull the trigger on a Gumby, but I need to choose a source.
> 
> It's between a bluesound node 2 feeding via toslink or rca, and a microRendu feeding via gumby's USB gen2.
> 
> Does anyone have experience of a direct comparison between these two sources with gumby? With either I would be prepared to add a good quality LPS and decent cables in order to get the best from them.


 
 No Bluesound experience, but I'm feeding my Bimby with a microRendu+Teddy Pardo LPS. This is the latest and best in a sequence of upgrades: 1) SOtM sMS-100+wall wart>USB; 2) sMS-100+wall wart>Bel Canto mLink>S/PDIF coax; 3) sMS-100+Teddy Pardo>Bel Canto mLink>S/PDIF; 4) microRendu+Teddy Pardo>USB. The Gumby has a more advanced USB stage than the Bimby, so maybe the difference would not be as marked, but for sure the microRendu combo helps the Bimby deliver even better clarity and detail. The big revelation was listening to Midori on solo violin Bach and picking the subtle variabilities of string tones as well as her handling of the instrument. As if she was playing a few feet away. Not that the previous setups were bad, but the microRendu with a decent LPS is just a better source for the Bimby. The SQ jump from 1) to 2) was the biggest, from 2) to 3) minor, and from 3) to 4) almost as big as from 1) to 2).


----------



## Liu Junyuan

The microRendu has brought enormous gains to the Gumby in my system. I am using the iFI power as I wait on the release of the Uptone LPS-1 linear power supply.


----------



## feelingears

A Gumby is my next purchase, assuming Schiit gets them back in stock soon!
  
 The microRendu has performed some serious "unveiling" in my system and is laying bare the shortcomings of various points in the chain. Another tweak to try: some kind of Ethernet filtration between the file source (in my case, an NAS) and the network. I tried an EMO EN-70HD network isolator ($200) between my wi-fi router (in client/extender mode) and the mRendu. Not so good. Then I tried it between my NAS and the primary wi-fi router. WOW....! There may be some balance issues but I think they are more room problems I'm aware of or the NAS as source, so I may try a Sonic Transporter from Sonore as well.
  
 Anyway, I've been PM-ing folks about DACs and the Gumby is clearly the sweet spot by a country mile over others.


----------



## gwitzel

dc71 said:


> Hi, I'm about to pull the trigger on a Gumby, but I need to choose a source.
> 
> It's between a bluesound node 2 feeding via toslink or rca, and a microRendu feeding via gumby's USB gen2.
> 
> Does anyone have experience of a direct comparison between these two sources with gumby? With either I would be prepared to add a good quality LPS and decent cables in order to get the best from them.


 
  
 I have no experience with either, but I would like to mention how happy I am with:
  
 2009 Mac Mini / Audirvana -> Schiit Wyrd -> Singxer F1 USB to S/PDIF coax -> Gumby BNC
  
 For me the F1 was a substantial improvement over the USB input of the Gumby. In the F1 thread people have combined it with the microRendu and are really enthusiastic.


----------



## feelingears

gwitzel said:


> I have no experience with either, but I would like to mention how happy I am with:
> 
> 2009 Mac Mini / Audirvana -> Schiit Wyrd -> Singxer F1 USB to S/PDIF coax -> Gumby BNC
> 
> For me the F1 was a substantial improvement over the USB input of the Gumby. In the F1 thread people have combined it with the microRendu and are really enthusiastic.


 
  
 The unexpected "unveiling" that the Regen and microRendu have brought to my ears is way beyond anything I've heard in audio before. Sure you can hear great stuff once in a while here and there, and even at home, but mostly it's been subtle enhancements. And, to really get better meant $$$$$ (or room tuning that would never pass WAF). The two aforementioned products have really changed the game for me and have done so at a price point almost everyone can reach. Now, those little tweaks like cables are EASILY heard and if you care about something like PRaT or soundstaging, it's pretty obvious.
  
 I'll have to look up the F1 you mention (thanks) as I have been wondering about reclocking the USB output of the microRendu. But, then again, perhaps mR to DAC USB is great enough.


----------



## McClelland

rdaneel said:


> I'm curious what folks like for powered speakers.  I'm considering something that would work on my desk (so hopefully less than 10" deep) and go low enough (which I know contradicts my size concerns) to be an upgrade from my old Logitech 2.1 system.  The JBLs look good and are not too expensive.  I don't want to drop $500+ on this - if I want amazing sound I'll just pick up the headphones.


 
 I did set up the JBL 305s on iso-acoustic stands run from a Gumby/MJ2 combo and they sound remarkably good for $275 a pair with a very pronounced sweet spot when working at the computer.  Stands brought out the bass.  Adding the 310 sub takes the SQ (and price) to a different level for a near-field room listening experience and maybe overkill, but the sub doesn't sound essential if you are going to your HPs for the best sound.


----------



## Gavin C4

not sure whats up with Schiit Gungnir at the moment. Why it is out of stock?


----------



## earnmyturns

gavin c4 said:


> not sure whats up with Schiit Gungnir at the moment. Why it is out of stock?


 
 New goodies about to be revealed at coming Schiitshow?


----------



## DKMTech

I believe the metalwork is holding up the process on the Gungnir as I contacted Schiit about it the other day. They are definitely not out of stock forever so no need to worry. When they get chassis back in stock, they can stuff them and ship the units.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Hey schiitheads. So I was one of the original gungnir/mjolnir stack bandwagon jumpers when I bought a pair of LCD-3s three and a half ish years ago. I bought it has an endgame setup into the foreseeable future and has served me pretty well fed from a squeezebox touch server. For reasons completely unknown I'm starting to get that itch again, and the sound of the multibit upgrade for the gungnir intrigues me.

I was always one of the people that found the g/m stack very aggressive and had the propensity to get fatiguing sometimes, even with the darkish LCD-3 classics. I couldn't imagine a brighter headphone with that setup. My question to you guys is how would the Gumby upgrade change things? Would it tone down that aggressive edge or was that the mjolnir all along? I have a lyr as well and the aggressiveness is also present through it, which leads me to believe it could be the dac. Any suggestions or comments are appreciated.


----------



## theveterans

Gumby + Mjolnir 2 or Mjolnir 2 with Lisst should remove the digititis that you're experiencing.


----------



## DKMTech

Here is a review that I found online trying to figure out the sound signature of the Gungnir (without the MB upgrade):
  
http://yourfinalsystem.com/dac-reviews/167-schiit-gungnir-usb-dac-review
  
 Hopefully that will help you decide.
  
 Good luck...


----------



## davidflas

I've owned my Gungnir since March of 2013. It replaced a Peachtree Audio iDac, and was an amazing step up. Later, I replaced the Gungnir's USB card with the version 2 upgrade. I have been lurking in this thread for a long time, and am excited to say that I just sent it back to the mother ship to have it brought up to Gumby status! Even though I'm late to the party, I'll post my listening impressions to this thread once I get it back.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

davidflas said:


> I've owned my Gungnir since March of 2013. It replaced a Peachtree Audio iDac, and was an amazing step up. Later, I replaced the Gungnir's USB card with the version 2 upgrade. I have been lurking in this thread for a long time, and am excited to say that I just it back to the mother ship to have it brought up to Gumby status! Even though I'm late to the party, I'll post my listening impressions to this thread once I get it back.




Congratulations - you are going to love it. Just remember to give it some time to both warm up and burn in as it will improve from how it sounds out of the box.


----------



## RCBinTN

davidflas said:


> I've owned my Gungnir since March of 2013. It replaced a Peachtree Audio iDac, and was an amazing step up. Later, I replaced the Gungnir's USB card with the version 2 upgrade. I have been lurking in this thread for a long time, and am excited to say that I just it back to the mother ship to have it brought up to Gumby status! Even though I'm late to the party, I'll post my listening impressions to this thread once I get it back.


 
  
 I followed a similar path, and IMO the $500 to upgrade the Gungnir to Gumby was the best investment I've made in my HP rigs.  The SQ improved dramatically.  Agree w/ the burn-in comment and keep the Gumby hot going forward.  You will love it.


----------



## davidflas

rcbintn said:


> I followed a similar path, and IMO the $500 to upgrade the Gungnir to Gumby was the best investment I've made in my HP rigs.  The SQ improved dramatically.  Agree w/ the burn-in comment and keep the Gumby hot going forward.  You will love it.


 

 Thanks for the positive thoughts. I have always kept my Gungnir powered on 24/7 since day one. I'll be sure to let it break in before I make my final judgments about what SQ differences the upgrade has brought.


----------



## DKMTech

davidflas said:


> I've owned my Gungnir since March of 2013. It replaced a Peachtree Audio iDac, and was an amazing step up. Later, I replaced the Gungnir's USB card with the version 2 upgrade. I have been lurking in this thread for a long time, and am excited to say that I just sent it back to the mother ship to have it brought up to Gumby status! Even though I'm late to the party, I'll post my listening impressions to this thread once I get it back.




Congrats David!

I think the money was worth it. 

250 hours is all it should need according to many folks who have burned the Gung in... I let my new digital gear play 3 weeks straight when I get it to make sure what I'm hearing is what I will always hear when I audition.

The wait to burn in your new gear is the hardest part of a purchase.

I leave my DAC on 24/7 as well.

ENJOY


----------



## Loquah

Hi all. I've finally jumped into the Schiit and bought a Gumby (secondhand) to upgrade from my X-Sabre. Having done some reading, I've started wondering if it's worth using a USB to coax/BNC converter. My normal setup is PC > ROON > Audioquest Jitterbug > Audioquest Coffee USB > DAC

Any recommendations?


----------



## gwitzel

loquah said:


> Hi all. I've finally jumped into the Schiit and bought a Gumby (secondhand) to upgrade from my X-Sabre. Having done some reading, I've started wondering if it's worth using a USB to coax/BNC converter. My normal setup is PC > ROON > Audioquest Jitterbug > Audioquest Coffee USB > DAC
> 
> Any recommendations?


 
  
 In my opinion, it is worth it. I have changed from the internal USB fed by Wyrd to the Singxer F1 USB to coax bridge, also fed by Wyrd. For my ears and my chain, this was a big step and revealed how good the dac really can be.
  
 There is a head-fi thread for this USB bridge: http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived
  
 It is not so crazy expensive either, and in the meantime even comes with a proper aluminum case. It is not quite made in USA, though 
  
 I use Mac Mini / Audrivana -> Wyrd -> F1 -> Gumby BNC


----------



## Loquah

gwitzel said:


> In my opinion, it is worth it. I have changed from the internal USB fed by Wyrd to the Singxer F1 USB to coax bridge, also fed by Wyrd. For my ears and my chain, this was a big step and revealed how good the dac really can be.
> 
> There is a head-fi thread for this USB bridge: http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks gwitzel. Sounds like I might need to find a local supplier of USB-SPDIF bridges (or maybe go via a Chinese site)


----------



## gwitzel

loquah said:


> Thanks gwitzel. Sounds like I might need to find a local supplier of USB-SPDIF bridges (or maybe go via a Chinese site)


 
  
 There are ebay offers with international shipping.


Spoiler: Links



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Singxer-F-1-XMOS-XU208-USB-Digital-Interface-384K-S-PDIF-I2S-DSD256-with-CRYSTEK-/131919964841?hash=item1eb70aeaa9:g:AnAAAOSwFc5XwBhd
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Singxer-F-1-XMOS-USB-Digital-Interface-Module-XU208-U8-with-CNC-SHELL-all-in-one-/112062071571?hash=item1a176b8313:g:4k4AAOSwZVlXjtP-
  
 I bought from:
  
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/162112976437?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 They say they ship from LA and it was very fast delivery (I live in LA).


  
 There is also the more expensive Singxer SU-1 that people use with the Bimby and report great results. This has an own power supply and more output options. For the F1 it is important to feed it with clean 5V USB power (like from the Wyrd).


----------



## scottcocoabeach

loquah said:


> Hi all. I've finally jumped into the Schiit and bought a Gumby (secondhand) to upgrade from my X-Sabre. Having done some reading, I've started wondering if it's worth using a USB to coax/BNC converter. My normal setup is PC > ROON > Audioquest Jitterbug > Audioquest Coffee USB > DAC
> 
> Any recommendations?




Just to throw out another option I use a Sonic Orbiter SE connected via optical running as a Roon endpoint.


----------



## ucanuup

I tried to contact them and have not got a response yet. Can anyone tell me if the gungnir multibit is out of stock in the US? Somebody said it was because they ran out of chassis but that was two weeks ago and the gungnir is still out of stock. How long will this continue? I considered switching to the yggydrasil. That is also on a three week backorder, but at least it gives a date.


----------



## NoobasaurusWrex

I have been keeping an eye on the Gungnir for a few weeks and it has remained out of stock. That said, I emailed them a week or so back and asked if it would be shipped when they got more chassis in stock. The answer was yes, so I placed an order for a Gumby and will wait it out.
  
 I received my Mjolnir 2 last Monday and had ordered it with LISST and tubes. I later found out they ran out of LISST and asked them to ship them separately. A few days later, my LISST shipped but the web site still says "Out of Stock" for those. I'm hoping the same will happen with the Gumby.


----------



## tjl5709

noobasauruswrex said:


> I have been keeping an eye on the Gungnir for a few weeks and it has remained out of stock. That said, I emailed them a week or so back and asked if it would be shipped when they got more chassis in stock. The answer was yes, so I placed an order for a Gumby and will wait it out.
> 
> I received my Mjolnir 2 last Monday and had ordered it with LISST and tubes. I later found out they ran out of LISST and asked them to ship them separately. A few days later, my LISST shipped but the web site still says "Out of Stock" for those. I'm hoping the same will happen with the Gumby.


 

 You will like the kit allot. Not sure what you are moving from, but it will be worth the wait. They pair perfectly.


----------



## NoobasaurusWrex

I'm upgrading from a Valhalla 2/Bimby combo. Still using the bimby with the MJ2 for the moment.


----------



## Loquah

What am I missing regarding the use of coax rather than USB for the Gumby? Schiit advertise how strong their Adapticlock technology is at managing timing errors / jitter and yet I'm reading how people are experiencing huge benefits with USB to coax bridges. Does that mean the Schiit USB interface is actually sub par? I read similar claims about the Matrix X-Sabre, but found zero difference when I tested it for myself...


----------



## Baldr

loquah said:


> What am I missing regarding the use of coax rather than USB for the Gumby? Schiit advertise how strong their Adapticlock technology is at managing timing errors / jitter and yet I'm reading how people are experiencing huge benefits with USB to coax bridges. Does that mean the Schiit USB interface is actually sub par? I read similar claims about the Matrix X-Sabre, but found zero difference when I tested it for myself...


 

 The Adaptaclock circuitry is designed to benefit all Gumby inputs equally.  It is not exclusively for USB.  In my view, most of the USB problems are noise-related, and as of now we have a history of two USB upgrades.  SPDIF coax, AES EBU and TOS link is a far more mature medium than USB for digital audio transmission.  For that reason, there has been a history of 3 Schiit upgrades to USB.  There may be more in the future.


----------



## Loquah

baldr said:


> The Adaptaclock circuitry is designed to benefit all Gumby inputs equally.  It is not exclusively for USB.  In my view, most of the USB problems are noise-related, and as of now we have a history of two USB upgrades.  SPDIF coax, AES EBU and TOS link is a far more mature medium than USB for digital audio transmission.  For that reason, there has been a history of 3 Schiit upgrades to USB.  There may be more in the future.


 
  
 Thanks for the response, Baldr. Is it safe to assume from that response that you would recommend the use of a USB-SPDIF bridge with the Gumby for maximum quality or is it still one of those case-by-case situations?


----------



## Baldr

loquah said:


> Thanks for the response, Baldr. Is it safe to assume from that response that you would recommend the use of a USB-SPDIF bridge with the Gumby for maximum quality or is it still one of those case-by-case situations?


 

 Case by case -


----------



## landroni

loquah said:


> Thanks for the response, Baldr. Is it safe to assume from that response that you would recommend the use of a USB-SPDIF bridge with the Gumby for maximum quality or is it still one of those case-by-case situations?


 

 As has been suggested elsewhere, the cheapest way to work around USB limitations is to turn it off and use something else. For instance, you could use a PCI card with SPDIF out on your desktop computer, if you have one. For Toslink, a quality, inexpensive glass cable like Lifatec should be considered. Another way is to use a network streamer, and the cheapest of 'em out there would be the RPi & Digi+, which will output SPDIF. The latter is a self-contained device, with an OS optimized for one thing: move the audio bits in a timely manner and with as little fuss as possible from your data storage device to your DAC. It's cheaper, but requires some manual fiddling to setup. If you're an impatient type, then something like Auralic Aries Mini or Sonicorbiter SE would fit the bill as well.
  
 BTW, some feel that even a Wet String would be superior to USB for transmitting audio bits...


----------



## Loquah

landroni said:


> As has been suggested elsewhere, the cheapest way to work around USB limitations is to turn it off and use something else. For instance, you could use a PCI card with SPDIF out on your desktop computer, if you have one. For Toslink, a quality, inexpensive glass cable like Lifatec should be considered. Another way is to use a network streamer, and the cheapest of 'em out there would be the RPi & Digi+, which will output SPDIF. The latter is a self-contained device, with an OS optimized for one thing: move the audio bits in a timely manner and with as little fuss as possible from your data storage device to your DAC. It's cheaper, but requires some manual fiddling to setup. If you're an impatient type, then something like Auralic Aries Mini or Sonicorbiter SE would fit the bill as well.
> 
> BTW, some feel that even a Wet String would be superior to USB for transmitting audio bits...


 
  
 Thanks for the post, landroni. The only problem is that different implementations of the various receivers can result in USB out-performing SPDIF on some DACs if they emphasised USB circuitry over SPDIF circuitry. I guess, in the end, I'll let my ears decide.
  
 I like the idea of a RPi, but it's not convenient with the way I have my setup via my laptop which goes everywhere with me and contains / manages all my tunes (although I could, perhaps run Roon as a receiver on the RPi or something similar...)


----------



## landroni

loquah said:


> The only problem is that different implementations of the various receivers can result in USB out-performing SPDIF on some DACs if they emphasised USB circuitry over SPDIF circuitry.


 
  
 As Mike has hinted above, most problems associated with USB seem to be noise related. Eliminating USB noise is an uphill battle, not least because USB galvanic isolation can be ludicrously expensive. And USB cables themselves may always generate analog noise when passing on data; this is what would explain that performance may improve when cleaning up the connectors. Last, USB transceivers are generic devices: they're for printing, copying data and ordering pizza --- you can think of them as a miniature SoC, and as such are themselves prolific noise-generators, whichever the specific implementation. (Recall that DACs got externalized partly to isolate them from the noise present inside computers.)
  
 SPDIF transports, on the other hand, are (somewhat) primitive and are designed for one thing and one thing only: streaming audio bits. For Coax, galvanic isolation is relatively cheap and part of the spec (not that all manufacturers follow it to the letter). Whereas for Optical, electric noise is a non-issue to start with. Some will point out that optical can induce performance degrading jitter, and while this was indeed a reality in the tech's beginning, it seems less of an issue nowadays especially if you use a quality glass cable like the Lifatec (which way exceeds the speeds needed for high-res audio).
  
 So all things being equal, you're more likely to be confronted with implementation issues in USB (some which can hardly be overcome at all) than with SPDIF, especially if you're considering ~$1K devices.
 Then there is the pro AES/EBU protocol (which SPDIF is based upon), and reports seem to be consistent that it performs sonically better than the above three. If AES/EBU is an option, it's definitely worth a try, though streamers with AES/EBU like Auralic Aries or Rednet 3 are unnecessarily expensive, so kind of an overkill for something like a Gungnir MB...
  


> I guess, in the end, I'll let my ears decide.


 
  
 Indeed. Many things may depend on the actual setup, cables, etc.


----------



## Loquah

So my new (secondhand) Gumby arrived this morning and I've swapped out the X-Sabre and swapped in the Gumby. I have to say that the improvements so far (I'm not even halfway through a single album) are only incremental. I'll do a bit of A/B comparison later, but I'm surprised that the leap isn't as great as I hoped. This also gives me confidence that the X-Sabre actually is as good as I thought it was. Sure, the Gumby is better, but it's not the leagues better I was expecting after reading some of the reviews and hype. This book is still open though so I reserve the right to do a complete about face if the limiting factor at the moment is the album I'm listening to (Gregory Porter - Liquid Spirit).
  
 By the way, does the Gumby get better after being left on / warming up? This one hasn't been used since at least Monday I'd say so would / could that make any difference?


----------



## KLJTech

Leave it on all the time if possible, yes it gets better after several hours of warming up. I hope you enjoy it!


----------



## landroni

loquah said:


> By the way, does the Gumby get better after being left on / warming up? This one hasn't been used since at least Monday I'd say so would / could that make any difference?


 

 Warming it up is recommended (and keeping it continuously on), though for a used item this should be a (much) quicker process and not take more than a day.
  
 Otherwise, amp and transducers might also be a weak link in the chain. Schiit's latest Jotunheim is starting to be considered by some as Schiit's statement amp, at 400$, with good transparency particularly suited to show users how their DACs actually sound like. (Though impressions trickling in are still initial.)
 As for transducers, many suggest that Schiit's 3D holographic imaging becomes obvious in speaker set-ups. Also, I tried the NightHawks once and they showed very poor synergy with my amp; not sure if this is something that might be going on here, but the HD650 is reported by many to scale up with TOTL amps and remains largely inexpensive.
  
 Hope you enjoy your Gumby!


----------



## mikoss

loquah said:


> So my new (secondhand) Gumby arrived this morning and I've swapped out the X-Sabre and swapped in the Gumby. I have to say that the improvements so far (I'm not even halfway through a single album) are only incremental. I'll do a bit of A/B comparison later, but I'm surprised that the leap isn't as great as I hoped. This also gives me confidence that the X-Sabre actually is as good as I thought it was. Sure, the Gumby is better, but it's not the leagues better I was expecting after reading some of the reviews and hype. This book is still open though so I reserve the right to do a complete about face if the limiting factor at the moment is the album I'm listening to (Gregory Porter - Liquid Spirit).
> 
> By the way, does the Gumby get better after being left on / warming up? This one hasn't been used since at least Monday I'd say so would / could that make any difference?


 
 Regardless of it being used, I'd give it a good 7 days of warm up. My experience is that it takes at least a week before it's 100% - I use my turntable until it's ready, as I find Gumby's overall clarity and bass seem to suffer the most until it's completely ready.
  
 I would suspect the biggest difference vs the X-Sabre would be the treble presentation... the Moffat bass also sounds fantastic.


----------



## Gavin C4

Waiting for an upgrade. HUGE wait until the Gumby to be back on stock. But whats with you Gungnir? Is the metal so rare that they cant find supply for over a month?


----------



## NoobasaurusWrex

gavin c4 said:


> Waiting for an upgrade. HUGE wait until the Gumby to be back on stock. But whats with you Gungnir? Is the metal so rare that they cant find supply for over a month?


 
 I have been wondering the same. The first indication that it was out of stock due to the shortage seems to be late June. I placed an order more than a week ago myself waiting to be fulfilled. Kinda wondering whats up, and if there is a timeframe myself.
  
 Maybe @Jason Stoddard or @Baldr could weigh in on the subject? Then again, I would completely understand if not. I would take any information over none at this point, even if it was disappointing.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Still waiting on metal...last told "2-3 days"...on Wednesday. We'll see.


----------



## NoobasaurusWrex

jason stoddard said:


> Still waiting on metal...last told "2-3 days"...on Wednesday. We'll see.


 
 And people wonder why I love Schiit so much.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

The metal...it has arrived! And it looks good! And it's in process!
  
 Wow, between this and the Windows Class 2 drivers, this has been a good week.
  
 What this means:
  
 1. We'll start cleaning out backorders. Most likely Monday.
 2. Status will be updated on the site, most likely after Monday.


----------



## captblaze

jason stoddard said:


> The metal...it has arrived! And it looks good! And it's in process!
> 
> Wow, between this and the Windows Class 2 drivers, this has been a good week.


 
  
 Hopefully the drivers will be implemented in the current release branch of Windows 10 and not stay exclusive to the current development branch until it is released


----------



## Loquah

I have an unusual problem, folks. I now have my Gumby connected in 3 ways:

Direct USB from PC (using JitterBugs)
Networked to RPi 3 / Digi+ and connected via coax
RPi/Digi+ also connected via optical
  
 There's no doubt that the RPi/coax setup sounds best, but I keep hearing alterations in the sound. I experience it as subtle shifts in the soundstage and sense of space in the audio. It is less prominent, but has happened once or twice via optical from the RPi and is almost non-existent from the USB connection I think (I can't be certain, but I don't think it's happened at all).
  
 I can only assume that the quality of the feed is varying and the Adapticlock method is switching on the fly to rebuild the signal. That's the only thing I can think of. Can anyone confirm?
  
 EDIT: I'm currently running the RPi via ethernet, but my laptop via WiFi. I'll fix this today so both are on ethernet and see if that helps, but would still be keen to hear if others have experienced this shift in soundstage I'm experiencing.


----------



## Ableza

jason stoddard said:


> The metal...it has arrived! And it looks good! And it's in process!
> 
> Wow, between this and the Windows Class 2 drivers, this has been a good week.
> 
> ...


 
 Take Monday off, it's Labor Day.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

ableza said:


> Take Monday off, it's Labor Day.


 

 Oh yeah, duh.


----------



## Baldr

Sometimes we run out of fingers or toes.  In this instance, neither of us (Me, Jason) can rescue each other from septenary numbers.


----------



## Rowethren

Was hoping the metal problem would be sorted out in time for my Gumby purchase at the end of September... Glad to see I wasn't crossing my fingers for nothing!


----------



## acguitar84

Sounds good about the gumbys gosh. I really want to see what one will sound like with the Jortunheim now.


----------



## scottcocoabeach

loquah said:


> So my new (secondhand) Gumby arrived this morning and I've swapped out the X-Sabre and swapped in the Gumby. I have to say that the improvements so far (I'm not even halfway through a single album) are only incremental. I'll do a bit of A/B comparison later, but I'm surprised that the leap isn't as great as I hoped. This also gives me confidence that the X-Sabre actually is as good as I thought it was. Sure, the Gumby is better, but it's not the leagues better I was expecting after reading some of the reviews and hype. This book is still open though so I reserve the right to do a complete about face if the limiting factor at the moment is the album I'm listening to (Gregory Porter - Liquid Spirit).
> 
> By the way, does the Gumby get better after being left on / warming up? This one hasn't been used since at least Monday I'd say so would / could that make any difference?


 
  
 If I recall the number stated is left on for at least 72 hours to reach maximum sound quality. I leave mine on full time. Listen to it fully warmed up and spend more time with it. I find it very hard to go back to my X-Sabre since getting the Gumby and am only keeping it (X-Sabre) in case I want to listen to DSD. I find the difference to be quite noticeable, especially when listening to Cymbals and Piano.


----------



## Loquah

The Gumby is slowly, but surely winning me over... I've left it on for a few days straight and while I honestly couldn't tell you if it sounds different, I'm definitely enjoying it. I tried a comparison with the X-Sabre and while the X-Sabre is still an outstanding DAC, the extra cash I spent on the Gumby has paid off. My setup seems a bit warm and rolled-off to me now, but I think it's a lack of familiarity with the multibit smoothness compared to the more digital and etched sound from the delta-sigma DACs I'm used to.


----------



## Gavin C4

The Status of Gungnir is finally updated! I really look forward for my unit to arrive.


----------



## NoobasaurusWrex

My Gumby came in earlier this week and I have given it some time to warm up. Connected via Balanced XLR to my Mjolnir 2 with a set of Electro Harmonix 6922s into my LCD2s (also balanced), I loaded up Spotify and began to listen to Thank You Scientist's "Mr Invisible". I didn't immediately notice a huge difference between the Bimby and the Gumby, until on a whim, I decided to load up Tidal Hifi and play the same track.
  
 It was the first time I ever heard a noticeable difference between Tidal Hifi and Spotify premium. The difference was night and day. Highs became much more pronounced and the treble sparkle I was previously missing and trying to EQ back into the songs suddenly appeared. Clarity improved significantly, as did my overall enjoyment of the music. I was considering cancelling my Tidal subscription since I hadn't heard much difference over Spotify. Needless to say, that won't be happening now. Couldn't be happier with the purchase. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Edit: Forgive me if my descriptions aren't as good as they could be. I'm relatively new to this hobby and still getting the hang of giving good impressions.


----------



## theveterans

> Originally Posted by *NoobasaurusWrex* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It was the first time I ever heard a noticeable difference between Tidal Hifi and Spotify premium. The difference was night and day. Highs became much more pronounced and the treble sparkle I was previously missing and trying to EQ back into the songs suddenly appeared. Clarity improved significantly, as did my overall enjoyment of the music. I was considering cancelling my Tidal subscription since I hadn't heard much difference over Spotify. Needless to say, that won't be happening now. Couldn't be happier with the purchase


 
  
 IMO, I hated that about Tidal. Tidal somehow EQd the treble to sound unnaturally bright. I prefer hearing Spotify through Fidelify which has realistic treble sound than Tidal.


----------



## NoobasaurusWrex

theveterans said:


> IMO, I hated that about Tidal. Tidal somehow EQd the treble to sound unnaturally bright. I prefer hearing Spotify through Fidelify which has realistic treble sound than Tidal.


 
  
 Interesting. Your note piqued my curiosity and I decided to test the song between Spotify Premium, Apple Music, and Tidal in 20 second chunks. I found Apple Music and Tidal to be closest in sound, with Spotify lagging behind and sounding quite veiled compared to the other 2. The only EQ I apply is via my sound card's driver via optical out. I would check some straight from CD FLAC rips if I had them, but alas...
  
 Edit: I did the same test using a FLAC rip of another CD I had laying around and found the same results. Tidal Hifi was identical, of course, with Apple being just behind it and Spotify trailing with a similar veiled sound to the other test I did. Hmm. Maybe I'll save myself $10/mo there instead.


----------



## davidflas

I just got the email that my freshly upgraded Gumby is on its way to me! It spent exactly one week at Schiit receiving the upgrade to multi bit, I can't wait to hear how it sounds now.


----------



## NoobasaurusWrex

davidflas said:


> I just got the email that my freshly upgraded Gumby is on its way to me! It spent exactly one week at Schiit receiving the upgrade to multi bit, I can't wait to hear how it sounds now.


 
 You won't be disappointed. As I mentioned in my previous posts, I had never heard anything as revealing as the Gumby previously, even compared to Schiit's other Multibit offerings.


----------



## thewatcher101

I got a chance to listen to Modi Multibit, to me it sounded very spacious and relax, but lack the tonal density and details of the saber chip dac I have. Would the Gungnir Multibit move me in that direction of increasing the tonal details of instrument, while keeping that relax spaciousness that is very pleasing to the ears.


----------



## Loquah

thewatcher101 said:


> I got a chance to listen to Modi Multibit, to me it sounded very spacious and relax, but lack the tonal density and details of the saber chip dac I have. Would the Gungnir Multibit move me in that direction of increasing the tonal details of instrument, while keeping that relax spaciousness that is very pleasing to the ears.




In my brief experiences, yes, but it's not a dramatic shift depending on your ESS DAC. The Gumby has provided noticeable improvements over my X-Sabre, but it's not night and day.

What is your current DAC?


----------



## theveterans

thewatcher101 said:


> I got a chance to listen to Modi Multibit, to me it sounded very spacious and relax, but lack the tonal density and details of the saber chip dac I have. Would the Gungnir Multibit move me in that direction of increasing the tonal details of instrument, while keeping that relax spaciousness that is very pleasing to the ears.


 
  
 You have to step up to Yggy for that.


----------



## davidflas

I've had my upgraded Gungnir Multi-bit since Friday, and can say that it sounds more natural after having listened all weekend. At first it sounded a bit harsh, but now that it has been on for a few days, it sounds great, much better than before the upgrade. One thing that struck me right away is that now it has a boot up sequence before it is ready to produce sound. The "get better gear" light flashes for several seconds before the source button works, etc... I don't remember reading about that from anyone else's account online. I am very happy with my decision to upgrade, I now  have a more organic and spacious sounding DAC.


----------



## NoobasaurusWrex

davidflas said:


> The "get better gear" light flashes for several seconds before the source button works, etc... I don't remember reading about that from anyone else's account online.


 
  
 Schiit's Multibit dacs require a few seconds to "warm up" before it actually switches on. The Gumby flashes the get-better-gear light as you said, and the Bimby and Modibit both cycle their input lights. What you are experiencing is normal. Glad you like it!


----------



## cishida

thewatcher101 said:


> I got a chance to listen to Modi Multibit, to me it sounded very spacious and relax, but lack the tonal density and details of the saber chip dac I have. Would the Gungnir Multibit move me in that direction of increasing the tonal details of instrument, while keeping that relax spaciousness that is very pleasing to the ears.


 
 In my opinion - yes, the gungnir MB would move you in that direction.


----------



## Rowethren

Disappointingly, I don't think I will get my Gumby this week... Mark said he hasn't heard back from Schiit about his order so it will probably be a couple of weeks still 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Seems to be the same story with the Ether Flows I was planning on getting them at the end of this week. Being impatient is such a pain sometimes!


----------



## NoobasaurusWrex

rowethren said:


> Disappointingly, I don't think I will get my Gumby this week... Mark said he hasn't heard back from Schiit about his order so it will probably be a couple of weeks still
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have ordered a couple of backordered items from them in the past. They tend to send an email on the day that its shipped separate from the order. 
  
 Good to know about the Ethers too. Those are next on my list once I have the cash.


----------



## Rowethren

noobasauruswrex said:


> I have ordered a couple of backordered items from them in the past. They tend to send an email on the day that its shipped separate from the order.
> 
> Good to know about the Ethers too. Those are next on my list once I have the cash.


 
  
 Well I am waiting for them to come to the distributor in the UK so I suspect I won't get an email when the are shipped 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Once again same story with the Ether Flow.


----------



## RCBinTN

thewatcher101 said:


> I got a chance to listen to Modi Multibit, to me it sounded very spacious and relax, but lack the tonal density and details of the saber chip dac I have. Would the Gungnir Multibit move me in that direction of increasing the tonal details of instrument, while keeping that relax spaciousness that is very pleasing to the ears.


 
  
 IMO, yes.  The GMB program captures more bits so gets closer to analog sound.  It's been widely discussed over on Baldr's thread (he's the programmer, Dr. Mike Moffat).  The Yggy captures the most bits but the GMB is only one bit or so behind.  Check out his thread for the design details...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/784471/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter
  
 I own the GMB and love it.  Very spacious, resolving sound.  The Yggy is even better.
  
 @Baldr any comments?
  
 Enjoy your music,
 RCB


----------



## RCBinTN

theveterans said:


> You have to step up to Yggy for that.


 
  
 IMHO, no, you don't.  The GMB is close to Yggy.  I've heard both.  And there's a ~$1000 price difference.


----------



## Xeculus

Finally! I did it! Gumby is on its way!!


----------



## Loquah

You'll love it. Congratulations!


----------



## Xeculus

lol @ the stick-on feet
  
 Upgrading from the Modi 2, that line just feels so good

  
 Any tips on how to warm up/break in? Do I just leave it on for a week?


----------



## US Blues

xeculus said:


> lol @ the stick-on feet
> 
> Upgrading from the Modi 2, that line just feels so good
> 
> ...


 

 Hook it up in your system, turn it on, play lot's of music, never turn it off. You'll be deliriously happy in a week, in a month the sound will be sublime.


----------



## Gavin C4

Finally received my Gumby! Will update my thoughts after some intensive listening.


----------



## Sam Lord

Originally Posted by *Xeculus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 





>


 

 I love everything about this company.  99% of the time Mike and Jason get it right.  But sometimes they don't.  In this case, it is crystals (inside the 2nd cable).  No series or parallel components are in the cable, which is essentially an antenna sink here, the action is environmental:


----------



## Xeculus

****, hit off switch on the surge protector and cut power to gumby...
  
 Would this be an issue? 
  
 What do you guys do during thunderstorms and such if you're always keeping it on?


----------



## joeexp

xeculus said:


> ****, hit off switch on the surge protector and cut power to gumby...
> 
> Would this be an issue?
> 
> What do you guys do during thunderstorms and such if you're always keeping it on?


 

 Takes a week to warm up properly --  So I'd leave it on....


----------



## Vigrith

xeculus said:


> ****, hit off switch on the surge protector and cut power to gumby...
> 
> Would this be an issue?
> 
> What do you guys do during thunderstorms and such if you're always keeping it on?


 
  
 I have a pretty good surge protector nowadays but I'm from a place that used to get a ton of storms whilst I was growing up (not so much any more) and our grids were super wonky, lost a couple computers as well as other electronics to them back when so I instinctively turn off my audio equipment when one does pop up (max once a month late years, thankfully).
  
 Rather have to deal with it having to warm up again than leave it on during a storm and have to send it all the way back to the US to have it be repaired.


----------



## rnros

xeculus said:


> ****, hit off switch on the surge protector and cut power to gumby...
> 
> Would this be an issue?
> 
> What do you guys do during thunderstorms and such if you're always keeping it on?


 

 Wait until the power comes back. 
 Seriously though, it happens, never had a problem with sound quality. Guessing that it comes back to equilibrium more quickly as it ages.


----------



## Gavin C4

Very good first impression with the Gumby. All notes are more solid and the bass has more texture. I really like the minimalist silver design of the Gumby & Mjolnir 2 stack since they sit really nicely beside my Macbook pro in my setup.


----------



## Xeculus

Warmed gumby for 3 days before trying it out 

Shocked at how good it is compared to Modi 2U. I was always under the impression dacs added minimal improvement. But now I hear an added dimension to the music, like the notes have more body to them. Bass is more rich, dynamics seem more noticeable, and detail is astounding. And this is paired to Magni 2. At this point I'm wondering if it's psychological and I'm imagining the difference


----------



## NoobasaurusWrex

xeculus said:


> Warmed gumby for 3 days before trying it out
> 
> Shocked at how good it is compared to Modi 2U. I was always under the impression dacs added minimal improvement. But now I hear an added dimension to the music, like the notes have more body to them. Bass is more rich, dynamics seem more noticeable, and detail is astounding. And this is paired to Magni 2. At this point I'm wondering if it's psychological and I'm imagining the difference


 
 Just wait until you try it out with a balanced amp and cans -- it gets even better. 
  
 Sorry 'bout your wallet.


----------



## theveterans

xeculus said:


> Warmed gumby for 3 days before trying it out
> 
> Shocked at how good it is compared to Modi 2U. I was always under the impression dacs added minimal improvement. But now I hear an added dimension to the music, like the notes have more body to them. Bass is more rich, dynamics seem more noticeable, and detail is astounding. And this is paired to Magni 2. At this point I'm wondering if it's psychological and I'm imagining the difference




Get the Jotunheim or if you want matching chassis with tube rolling, get a Mjolnir 2


----------



## RCBinTN

I experienced a similar SQ improvement going from the Gungnir to the GMB.  Really opened up the clarity of the instruments.  Best investment that I've made in my HP rigs.


----------



## tjl5709

xeculus said:


> Warmed gumby for 3 days before trying it out
> 
> Shocked at how good it is compared to Modi 2U. I was always under the impression dacs added minimal improvement. But now I hear an added dimension to the music, like the notes have more body to them. Bass is more rich, dynamics seem more noticeable, and detail is astounding. And this is paired to Magni 2. At this point I'm wondering if it's psychological and I'm imagining the difference


 

 It's real, and I had the same impression about DAC's as well.
  
 After exploring what DAC's do, and how they convert, along with my observation with the following moves in DAC's (Bifrost<Gumby<Yggy) in my rig, I am now in the camp that puts DAC's >= Amps.


----------



## Gavin C4

Leaving it on for days really increase SQ? I am just scared I would damage the unit or reduce the life span of the product. Since heat really builds up. I am really scared the power supply would be overheated and damage. Sending the unit in for repair is relative expensive at my location...


----------



## Xeculus

gavin c4 said:


> Leaving it on for days really increase SQ? I am just scared I would damage the unit or reduce the life span of the product. Since heat really builds up. I am really scared the power supply would be overheated and damage. Sending the unit in for repair is relative expensive at my location...


 
 I thought the same too. But apparently this has been well documented and discussed, and Schiit themselves even said leaving it on is fine and produces optimal results


----------



## earnmyturns

gavin c4 said:


> Leaving it on for days really increase SQ? I am just scared I would damage the unit or reduce the life span of the product. Since heat really builds up. I am really scared the power supply would be overheated and damage. Sending the unit in for repair is relative expensive at my location...


 
 My Bimby has been on almost continuously (off only when I'm traveling for more than a few days, when I turn off pretty much all the electronics) for pretty much as long as I've had it (~1 year). It's slightly warm, that's all. If/when I get a Gumby (more like when than if, likely), I'll keep it on.


----------



## landroni

xeculus said:


> Warmed gumby for 3 days before trying it out
> 
> Shocked at how good it is compared to Modi 2U. I was always under the impression dacs added minimal improvement. But now I hear an added dimension to the music, like the notes have more body to them. Bass is more rich, dynamics seem more noticeable, and detail is astounding. And this is paired to Magni 2. At this point I'm wondering if it's psychological and I'm imagining the difference


 

 Do you ask yourself this same question when you _don't_ hear a difference? Perhaps when you hear no difference it's all psychological and you're imagining things...


----------



## mordicai

When you change things in your system, you will sometimes hear a difference. If that is better or worse then previously is sometimes a very subjective thing. I sold a DAC and bought a new one. Before the new one arrived I .put an older DAC I had back in the system. Wow, that old DAC sounded great. Know I know it sounded different, and I enjoyed hearing a different sound, but if it was better then the one that replaced it, I not sure. I think the thing to do is keep your old gear when you buy new, and then when you get tired of listening to the new stuff , put the old stuff back in and it will sound different and you will think it sounds better. You will never have to buy new gear again, and you will finally be able to afford to eat well again!


----------



## franzdom

gavin c4 said:


> Leaving it on for days really increase SQ? I am just scared I would damage the unit or reduce the life span of the product. Since heat really builds up. I am really scared the power supply would be overheated and damage. Sending the unit in for repair is relative expensive at my location...


 
  
 Heat only continues to build until it reaches steady state. It does not continue to build endlessly and is limited in nature.
 As heat is building up the circuitry is unstable. Thermal stability is crucial for some of the components in DACs such as the clock. 
 As for reduced life span, this is not an issue for Schiit DACs, the temperatures just don't get anywhere near failure temps.


----------



## reddog

gavin c4 said:


> Leaving it on for days really increase SQ? I am just scared I would damage the unit or reduce the life span of the product. Since heat really builds up. I am really scared the power supply would be overheated and damage. Sending the unit in for repair is relative expensive at my location...



Hello Gavin C4 
I own both the Gungnir Multibit and the Yggdrasil and I leave them on, all the time ( except during thunder storms). I only leave my two dacs on all the time. All my other electronics ( amps, game units, receivers ) I turn off. I also try not to stack my dacs's with my amps. I hope your Gungnir dac puts a big old smile on your face as you jam out.


----------



## Gavin C4

@mordicai I would also keep my old gear since it is not defective and I would give me another taste of music from time to time when I decide to switch back. 
  
 @[color=#000000]reddog[/color] Thank you for you information. 
  
I am currently using the PYST XLR cable to stack the Mj2 and Gumby,


----------



## Rowethren

Just spent the last hour listening to the Spotify created Southern Gothic playlist using my speaker setup with my new Gumby (replaced a Bimby) as the source. Amazing difference, everything is more spacious sounding and you can really hear exactly where all the sounds are coming from. The bass seems to extend down deeper as well as having more texture. Overall everything is just perfect, I think this is going to be my end game DAC tbh as I don't have space for a Yig. It has only been on for a day as well so things can only get better if my Bimby is anything to go by. Looking forward to spending more time listening to this setup!


----------



## jh4db536

I bought a Modibit a month ago and returned it because it didnt work out for my intended purpose; bought Gumby instead. Gumby has been warming up for the last 24 hours (bought it used). I really like the way it sounds combined with the Beta22. ERC3 > Gamma3 as DIR > Gumby
  
 The digital implementation of the y3 (USB, SPDIF) is superior to the Gumby. The Gumby doesn't have the same level of galvanic isolation, digital input isolation, and dedicated power supplies of the y3. I crutch the Gumby via CDTransport and/or using the y3's DIR. Gumby doesnt have USB3 like the yggy .
  
 I noticed that the Balanced output sounds better than the SE RCA outputs. My Torp3 (Single ended inputs) sounds better out of the y3. My B22 which is balanced only sounds amazing out of the Gumby. Honestly i am thinking of putting Jensen transformers on the Gumby's Xlr outs or building a Active balanced to SE conversion using Alpha24's.
  
 The y3 is warm as the Gumby. I would say it's a notch warmer than neutral. It is not as warm/smoothed as the AudioGD NFB-11 that i heard.
  
 From a absolute neutral perspective (if your an analog lover, or have digital allergy), the Gumby or this family of DAC technology (yggy included) have superior tonality just like the focal Utopia has superior tonality to the hd800x. Cymbals sound almost perfect out of the Gumby due to the 'correct tonality'.
  
 The y3 is more aggressive than the Gumby, which is supposedly laid back in comparison. Both are tolerable using HD800S
  
 I definitely hear the moffat digital filter doing its thing on the Gumby. It seems to slice up/stratify the details into neat layers and insert some blank space in between each stratum so that each is clearly defined in position. It's quite cool but maybe a little unnatural. My analogy would be like Photoshop layers overlapping vs a nice flat image - a single microphone recording a whole band in a room vs each instrument individually recorded and pasted together. it's a really cool effect. Ymmv
  
 For details and resolution the y3 tends to be extremely detailed outright through brute force and contrast of its "blackground" against the digital tonality (crisp and edge). My analogy for this is a "tonal brightness" similar to the stock HD800 that helps it force the details out. The Gumby uses that digital filter to get details out, the space between the layers make details stand out and easier to pick out. Two different methods to skin a cat.


----------



## Gavin C4

rowethren said:


> Just spent the last hour listening to the Spotify created Southern Gothic playlist using my speaker setup with my new Gumby (replaced a Bimby) as the source. Amazing difference, everything is more spacious sounding and you can really hear exactly where all the sounds are coming from. The bass seems to extend down deeper as well as having more texture. Overall everything is just perfect, I think this is going to be my end game DAC tbh as I don't have space for a Yig. It has only been on for a day as well so things can only get better if my Bimby is anything to go by. Looking forward to spending more time listening to this setup!


 
 Totally agree that the Gumby will be THE end game dac for me. The Yig is too big. Does not blends in well with my setup.


----------



## shapeshifter44

Just one question, does it click every time or just few times between songs when I connect Gungnir/Gumby to my computer through USB?
 Thanks!


----------



## Mediahound

shapeshifter44 said:


> Just one question, does it click every time or just few times between songs when I connect Gungnir/Gumby to my computer through USB?
> Thanks!




Only when sampling rate is changed or you sleep/ awake the computer.


----------



## shapeshifter44

mediahound said:


> Only when sampling rate is changed or you sleep/ awake the computer.


 
 So it won't click when I play 10 songs from the same album?
 Thanks a lot.


----------



## jchandler3

shapeshifter44 said:


> So it won't click when I play 10 songs from the same album?
> Thanks a lot.




Assuming you have all 10 songs in the same bit rate / sample rate, no it won't click.


----------



## Mediahound

shapeshifter44 said:


> So it won't click when I play 10 songs from the same album?
> Thanks a lot.




 It won't click if you play 100 albums all the same sampling rate.


----------



## mwb1

The DAC should only "click" when the sample frequency changes from one track to another.


----------



## Delayeed

I assume there is some delay too when switching sample rates? Is the clicking obnoxiously loud? I skip through tracks with different sample rates a lot so that could be a small* *inconvenience.


----------



## theveterans

delayeed said:


> I assume there is some delay too when switching sample rates? Is the clicking obnoxiously loud? I skip through tracks with different sample rates a lot so that could be a small* *inconvenience.


 
  
 Nope. Switching sample rates is instant. The only difference between a non-relayed DAC like the internal sound card and the Gumby is the click noise which is only as loud as you pushing the retractable pen.


----------



## cishida

mwb1 said:


> The DAC should only "click" when the sample frequency changes from one track to another.


 
 It will click when your connected computer boots, or goes to sleep or wakes up. Though from Gumby's perspective these events probably look like a sample rate change.


----------



## kolkoo

Quick question - is it worth it to get Gumby over Bimby in a purely single-ended setup (I'd love to go balanced but absolutely everything I have is single-ended)? My amp is a Lyr 2.


----------



## franzdom

While I can't answer your question exactly, I had Lyr 2 and Bimby and upgraded to Yggy.
 The change was much more subtle than either when I swapped Lyr 2 with Mjolnir 2 SE and or when I then went to Balanced.


----------



## ToddRaymond

The Gumby is a mighty fine DAC, balanced or single ended. Whether or not it's worth the added cost to you will of course depend on your ears, your equipment, and how important this stuff is to you. If you can swing it, I'd say go for it.


----------



## ScareDe2

franzdom said:


> While I can't answer your question exactly, I had Lyr 2 and Bimby and upgraded to Yggy.
> The change was much more subtle than either when I swapped Lyr 2 with Mjolnir 2 SE and or when I then went to Balanced.


 
  
 Was it a worthy improvement to go from Lyr 2 to Mjolnir? And from Single End to Balanced?


----------



## kolkoo

turdski said:


> The Gumby is a mighty fine DAC, balanced or single ended. Whether or not it's worth the added cost to you will of course depend on your ears, your equipment, and how important this stuff is to you. If you can swing it, I'd say go for it.


 

 The question is how much finer is it compared to the bimby in a single ended setup, probably hard to answer  I don't expect it to be twice as good but at least would need an audible improvement for me to jump. Or I might just jump if I get too impatient


----------



## Delayeed

scarede2 said:


> Was it a worthy improvement to go from Lyr 2 to Mjolnir? And from Single End to Balanced?


 
 Also curious


----------



## franzdom

scarede2 said:


> Was it a worthy improvement to go from Lyr 2 to Mjolnir? And from Single End to Balanced?


 
  
 Absolutely. Mjolnir 2 has much lower floor noise, somewhat wider sound stage. Not having to work as hard is a blessing for power hungry HPs.
  
 But my first foray into balanced was really eye & ear opening. It doesn't seem this way for every song but for some I couldn't believe the A/B difference. My very first listen and comparison showed how much more spacious and glowing the music is when each side is uncoupled completely from the other. 
 Part of this may be up to the Yggy though, when I A/B with SE vs Bal I had balanced all the way back to the DAC. Part of it may be more tube separation, and minute differences in tube signatures influencing the gaps. 
  
 TL/DR: These were each very worthy improvements!


----------



## rnros

kolkoo said:


> Quick question - is it worth it to get Gumby over Bimby in a purely single-ended setup (I'd love to go balanced but absolutely everything I have is single-ended)? My amp is a Lyr 2.


 

 Good comparison thread:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/785369/yggdrasil-gungnir-mb-bifrost-mb-a-terse-ribald-comparison#post_12012998
  
 Post specifically addresses your SE question:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook/60#post_12051821   [_"These dacs are so close that if your system is SE only, there is really no reason in terms of audible SQ to spend any more $."_]
  
 All that said,  I highly recommend the Gumby/MJ2. @kolkoo, you know, sooner or later, you will go there, just depends which one you want to get first.   And then there's the Yggy.


----------



## Rowethren

rnros said:


> Good comparison thread:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/785369/yggdrasil-gungnir-mb-bifrost-mb-a-terse-ribald-comparison#post_12012998
> 
> Post specifically addresses your SE question:
> ...


 
  
 I would agree regarding the Gumby/Mj2, music has never sounded so good! Works really well for speakers as well if that matters.


----------



## ToddRaymond

kolkoo said:


> The question is how much finer is it compared to the bimby in a single ended setup, probably hard to answer  I don't expect it to be twice as good but at least would need an audible improvement for me to jump. Or I might just jump if I get too impatient


 

 Oh, I know what the question was.  Just trying to help!  Besides, nobody can make the decision for you.  It's so important to understand that like anything in life, all of this stuff is subjective–no matter how much someone may try to convince you otherwise.  Already you have examples of at least one individual saying that it's worth the jump, and another proclaiming, not so much.  As I said, nobody here knows how you perceive sound, nor can they know how important music is to you.  By the way, I'm not quite on board with this idea that the Gungnir single ended it somehow so much Schiitier than balanced.  However, going balanced from DAC to transducer does take things to a whole other level.


----------



## reddog

Tonight I moved my mighty Ragnarock and hooked it up to my Gungnir Multibit. I am very impressed with combination of these two units. I used these two units to drive my ETHER 1.1's, and my cans sounded amazing. The sound signature was detailed and very musical. I got into some Flood by THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS, as well as some PINK FLOYD.


----------



## wahsmoh

rowethren said:


> I would agree regarding the Gumby/Mj2, music has never sounded so good! Works really well for speakers as well if that matters.


 
 I cant wait!! I have a Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 on the way with an Emotiva 2 channel power amp. I will be using my Theta for now as a DAC but the Gumby is going to be bought soon hopefully.


----------



## acguitar84

reddog said:


> Tonight I moved my mighty Ragnarock and hooked it up to my Gungnir Multibit. I am very impressed with combination of these two units. I used these two units to drive my ETHER 1.1's, and my cans sounded amazing. The sound signature was detailed and very musical. I got into some Flood by THEY MIGHT BE GIANTS, as well as some PINK FLOYD.




How close in performance are the Yggy and the gumby hooked to the Rag? You have a Yggy, but sometimes you'd rather use gumby instead?

I'm finally getting close to pulling the trigger on a Yggy, but still wonder if a gumby would be "good enough"

Thanks.


----------



## reddog

acguitar84 said:


> How close in performance are the Yggy and the gumby hooked to the Rag? You have a Yggy, but sometimes you'd rather use gumby instead?
> 
> I'm finally getting close to pulling the trigger on a Yggy, but still wonder if a gumby would be "good enough"
> 
> Thanks.


The Yggdrasil is just fantastic, so detailed, resolute, and natural sounding. And when combined with the detailed nature of the Ragnarock, the music signature becomes one of total detailed resolution dedicated to a musical natur a l sound. And when this happens, I sometimes over analyze the sound. This never happens when I listen to the Gungnir Multibit and the Ragnarock. On that system I just listen to the music and do not over analyze it. I use the Gungnir Multibit and the Ragnarock for tv watchin and the occasional blue ray movie. The Gungnir is very nice but it does not replace the Yggdrasil. If you can afford the Yggdrasil then by all means snag it. The Yggdrasil is the only dac I have considered buying, just to have a replacement unit, just in case my Yggdrasil, knock on wood, ever bites the bullet.


----------



## drunkmoron

Is there any way to tell if a Gungnir is a mulitbit version or not (other than hearing it)? Is there any marking on it that tell the different? Thank you


----------



## Mediahound

drunkmoron said:


> Is there any way to tell if a Gungnir is a mulitbit version or not (other than hearing it)? Is there any marking on it that tell the different? Thank you


 

 Yes, there's a sticker on the left rear (or right rear when peering over the top from the front):


----------



## mordicai

Well you can open it up and take a look, or you can look on the back for a MB sticker


----------



## drunkmoron

Thank you for the information.


----------



## watchnerd

Is there really a point to the sigma-delta Gungnir now you can get a Jotunheim with a balanced DAC chip?  
  
 Both have a balanced DAC chip, and the Jotunheim uses the more recent 4490 chips. Both have XLR out.
  
 It seems like the only advantage the SD Gungnir has is more inputs and maybe Adapticlock....that's not a huge difference in features for a $350 price delta.


----------



## Rozenberg

watchnerd said:


> Is there really a point to the sigma-delta Gungnir now you can get a Jotunheim with a balanced DAC chip?
> 
> Both have a balanced DAC chip, and the Jotunheim uses the more recent 4490 chips. Both have XLR out.
> 
> It seems like the only advantage the SD Gungnir has is more inputs and maybe Adapticlock....that's not a huge difference in features for a $350 price delta.


 
 The Gungnir DS will serve as a step toward Gungnir multibit in case one can't spend all of the money on Gumby at once.
 (I'm trying to comfort myself here because I'm still waiting for my Gungnir DS)
  
 But again chips aren't everything. The implementation is more important.


----------



## Gamergtx260

I had the Gungnir DS for about a month. The initial sq was a bit harsh on the treble with sibilance and a thin low end with a decent mids. But the sound got much better balanced after a few days of listening and it was quite enjoyable. 
Later, I had the chance to return my Gungnir DS to the Gungnir multibit along with the wyrd. My initial impressions were just wow. It sounded like the burnedin Gungnir DS right out of the box. 

Does it improve further? I only have maybe 20 hours of burnin with the gumby.


----------



## ToddRaymond

gamergtx260 said:


> Does it improve further? I only have maybe 20 hours of burnin with the gumby.




Yes, it definitely does (in my experience). If nothing else, give it a few more days of just being left powered on, and it will really start to sound effin' magical. Don't ever turn it off!


----------



## Rowethren

Indeed, I had to turn my Gumby off when I was moving it around trying to reduce transformer resonance (unsuccessfully) and when turned it back on again the sound was noticeably harsher and more closed in...


----------



## watchnerd

gamergtx260 said:


> My initial impressions were just wow. It sounded like the burnedin Gungnir DS right out of the box.


 
  
 Well, it sort of is / was a burned in model...they don't replace all the components.


----------



## franzdom

watchnerd said:


> Well, it sort of is / was a burned in model...they don't replace all the components.


 
  
 Fair but I feel the impact of preheating over days is more significant than burn-in.


----------



## Gamergtx260

watchnerd said:


> Well, it sort of is / was a burned in model...they don't replace all the components.


 oh my, means that my gumby has reached its maximum potential already?


----------



## franzdom

gamergtx260 said:


> oh my, means that my gumby has reached its maximum potential already?


 
  
 No, if you only had it plugged in currently for 20 hours it is nowhere near it's potential. It will smooth out and plankton will increase as well over the following days.


----------



## RCBinTN

gamergtx260 said:


> I had the Gungnir DS for about a month. The initial sq was a bit harsh on the treble with sibilance and a thin low end with a decent mids. But the sound got much better balanced after a few days of listening and it was quite enjoyable.
> Later, I had the chance to return my Gungnir DS to the Gungnir multibit along with the wyrd. My initial impressions were just wow. It sounded like the burnedin Gungnir DS right out of the box.
> 
> Does it improve further? I only have maybe 20 hours of burnin with the gumby.


 
  
 It does continue to improve.  Maybe topping at ~50 hours (that's a pure guess).  Then leave it powered on at all times, so the components stay warm.  I went the same route as you - Gungnir DS to GMB - and it was the best investment I've made in this hobby.  IMO, you will be very happy with the final result.  I've heard the Yggy and, while it's super impressive, I am happy right where I am sitting.  FWIW friends.
  
 Cheers,
 RCBinTN


----------



## Trerit

drolling at a GMB but im scared to spend loads of money on a DAC only to see something better sounding and better priced be released two years later.. currently rocking the modi 2u > Ragnarok > HE-400i.. haha


----------



## watchnerd

trerit said:


> drolling at a GMB but im scared to spend loads of money on a DAC only to see something better sounding and better priced be released two years later.. currently rocking the modi 2u > Ragnarok > HE-400i.. haha


 
  
 The DAC board in the GMB is upgradeable.


----------



## Rowethren

trerit said:


> drolling at a GMB but im scared to spend loads of money on a DAC only to see something better sounding and better priced be released two years later.. currently rocking the modi 2u > Ragnarok > HE-400i.. haha




Probably unwanted advice but personally if I were you I would upgrade my headphones first then go for a new DAC. I own the HE-400i as well and then purchased the Ether Flow and it was a significant upgrade. When I changed from my Bimby to Gumby it was a big difference as well but not anywhere in the same league as the headphone upgrade. Just my opinion feel free to ignore me


----------



## Gamergtx260

AGr





rowethren said:


> Probably unwanted advice but personally if I were you I would upgrade my headphones first then go for a new DAC. I own the HE-400i as well and then purchased the Ether Flow and it was a significant upgrade. When I changed from my Bimby to Gumby it was a big difference as well but not anywhere in the same league as the headphone upgrade. Just my opinion feel free to ignore me


Agree, now get the LCD X


----------



## Rowethren

gamergtx260 said:


> AGr
> Agree, now get the LCD X




Nah Ether Flow . Or what you could do is what I did and get the Ether Flow, Gumby and Mjolnir 2 all at the same time... MEGA UPGRADE!  Although you do already have the Ragnarok so pft.


----------



## Trerit

rowethren said:


> Nah Ether Flow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Was in the market for a new speaker amp to get a bit better sq than my old denon amp.. ended up buying KEF LS50's and a Black Ragnarok last week Haha xD

 My mega upgrade was december last year, when i went from logitech gaming headset to magni 2u/modi 2u + HE-400i. Only auditioned two hifi headphones. HE-400i and the HD700. Liked the treble better on the HD700, liked the lowermids and lows better on the HE-400i so i went for them. asked the sales man what it would cost me to get the best of both those and that was far more than i thought i could spend on a headset..

 As for dacs, only tried the mojo and the modi 2u. The most interesting upgrade for dacs seems to be the gumby, been trying to look for "cheap balanced dacs" but all i find have headphone outputs and volume knobs, and to me that seems like I'm paying extra for a feature that i already have In my ragnarok.. Its not that i have to have schiit, it just seems like they always make sensible stuff. Also they have been throwing the word "multibit" around and I kinda want to try it..


----------



## Gamergtx260

trerit said:


> Was in the market for a new speaker amp to get a bit better sq than my old denon amp.. ended up buying KEF LS50's and a Black Ragnarok last week Haha xD
> 
> My mega upgrade was december last year, when i went from logitech gaming headset to magni 2u/modi 2u + HE-400i. Only auditioned two hifi headphones. HE-400i and the HD700. Liked the treble better on the HD700, liked the lowermids and lows better on the HE-400i so i went for them. asked the sales man what it would cost me to get the best of both those and that was far more than i thought i could spend on a headset..
> 
> As for dacs, only tried the mojo and the modi 2u. The most interesting upgrade for dacs seems to be the gumby, been trying to look for "cheap balanced dacs" but all i find have headphone outputs and volume knobs, and to me that seems like I'm paying extra for a feature that i already have In my ragnarok.. Its not that i have to have schiit, it just seems like they always make sensible stuff. Also they have been throwing the word "multibit" around and I kinda want to try it..


 
 Now that you have the ragnarok, I would suggest you to take a giant leap to the yggdrasil and skip the gumby. But as the others suggested, upgrade your headphones first. 400i wouldn't do justice for the ragy.


----------



## Rowethren

trerit said:


> Was in the market for a new speaker amp to get a bit better sq than my old denon amp.. ended up buying KEF LS50's and a Black Ragnarok last week Haha xD
> 
> 
> My mega upgrade was december last year, when i went from logitech gaming headset to magni 2u/modi 2u + HE-400i. Only auditioned two hifi headphones. HE-400i and the HD700. Liked the treble better on the HD700, liked the lowermids and lows better on the HE-400i so i went for them. asked the sales man what it would cost me to get the best of both those and that was far more than i thought i could spend on a headset..
> ...




I did something very similar I had a cheap speaker system then upgraded to some Monitor Audio Gold 100 with a Rotel RA-1570. Only problem was it blew my, at the time, cheap headphone setup out the water. Now I went down the rabbit hole and ended up spending like £4k on a new headphone setup and I have some Sony Z1R coming as well next month lol. It is a slippery slope and I have well and truly fallen down it... 

I COULDN'T BE HAPPIER THOUGH


----------



## gefski

trerit said:


> drolling at a GMB but im scared to spend loads of money on a DAC only to see something better sounding and better priced be released two years later.. currently rocking the modi 2u > Ragnarok > HE-400i.. haha




Different headphones can change the "personality" of a system in exciting and fun ways, but improvements upstream provide a clearer window on the music. Since most people in this hobby end up owning multiple cans, a great dac "keeps on giving" with every headphone purchased.

I spend the most $ upstream, and end up "re-discovering" all the music I've owned.

IMO
YMWV


----------



## Rozenberg

trerit said:


> drolling at a GMB but im scared to spend loads of money on a DAC only to see something better sounding and better priced be released two years later.. currently rocking the modi 2u > Ragnarok > HE-400i.. haha


 
 The good thing is Gungnir is upgradeable. That's one reason why I bought it. You can buy Gungnir DS first and upgrade later when you want.
 But again DACs have lower disminishing return than amps, IMO so settling with Gungnir is probably the right choice for me.


----------



## franzdom

rozenberg said:


> The good thing is Gungnir is upgradeable. That's one reason why I bought it. You can buy Gungnir DS first and upgrade later when you want.
> But again DACs have lower disminishing return than amps, IMO so settling with Gungnir is probably the right choice for me.


 
  
 Please expand, what you mean by "DACs have lower disminishing return than amps", I am not quite sure what you mean by that. Resale value? Less impact per extra dollar spent?


----------



## Gamergtx260

I guess he meant, a decent DAC is good already. The more money you spend on getting a better DAC is probably only "slightly" better than the decent one. Correct me if wrong.


----------



## Gamergtx260

I have changed the stock tubes some NOS West German Telefunken Diamond tubes and there was a significant improvement in the clarity already.


----------



## Rozenberg

franzdom said:


> Please expand, what you mean by "DACs have lower disminishing return than amps", I am not quite sure what you mean by that. Resale value? Less impact per extra dollar spent?


 
 Below as explained.


gamergtx260 said:


> I guess he meant, a decent DAC is good already. The more money you spend on getting a better DAC is probably only "slightly" better than the decent one. Correct me if wrong.


 
  
 Though to be precise, "good performance for less money" aka "great value" is better than just "decent" and I think the Gungnir is a great value for DAC.


----------



## watchnerd

Is the Gungnir going to be upgraded to the 2 x 4490 implementation that the Jotunheim uses has any time soon?
  
 Right now the Gungnir still uses the older 2 x 4399...


----------



## Rozenberg

I don't think Schiit gonna announce it, if it happens.
 Or if it already happened without us knowing, you can email them to ask.


----------



## watchnerd

rozenberg said:


> I don't think Schiit gonna announce it, if it happens.
> Or if it already happened without us knowing, you can email them to ask.


 
  
 If it's happening, then the specs on the website are out of date, as it still says the Gungir uses the 4399.


----------



## shapeshifter44

Do you think Schiit will update chips for Gumby?


----------



## jcn3

shapeshifter44 said:


> Do you think Schiit will update chips for Gumby?


 
  
 gumby was released just 18 months or so ago -- wouldn't anticipate a change in the near future.


----------



## Rozenberg

watchnerd said:


> If it's happening, then the specs on the website are out of date, as it still says the Gungir uses the 4399.


 
 Then it isn't happening, yet.
 Can ask if you want though, but I doubt we'll receive clear answer.


----------



## watchnerd

rozenberg said:


> Then it isn't happening, yet.
> Can ask if you want though, but I doubt we'll receive clear answer.


 
  
 Sure, go for it! Would love to know.


----------



## watchnerd

jcn3 said:


> gumby was released just 18 months or so ago -- wouldn't anticipate a change in the near future.


 
  
 Actually, I would expect them to change it for inventory reasons as soon as they're able.
  
 Once they burn through their remaining pile of 4399 chips, I'd expect them to switch.
  
 It's just more efficient to have one set of parts used across multiple products.


----------



## Gamergtx260

watchnerd said:


> Actually, I would expect them to change it for inventory reasons as soon as they're able.
> 
> Once they burn through their remaining pile of 4399 chips, I'd expect them to switch.
> 
> It's just more efficient to have one set of parts used across multiple products.


 Agreed. But I believe it would only be a subtle improvement with the newer chips?


----------



## jcn3

watchnerd said:


> Actually, I would expect them to change it for inventory reasons as soon as they're able.
> 
> Once they burn through their remaining pile of 4399 chips, I'd expect them to switch.
> 
> It's just more efficient to have one set of parts used across multiple products.


 
  
 in post 3910, the poster was referring to the gumby.  it doesn't use the 4399 -- it uses Analog Devices AD5781BRUZ.


----------



## RCBinTN

Right.  The original Gungnir uses the AKM AK4399 chips, but the GMB uses the AD5781BRUZ chips.  Straight off their site...FWIW friends.
  
 http://schiit.com/products/gungnir-multibit
  
 Anyway, my GMB sounds quite sublime to my ears.  Highly recommended!
  
 Cheers,
 RCB


----------



## watchnerd

jcn3 said:


> in post 3910, the poster was referring to the gumby.  it doesn't use the 4399 -- it uses Analog Devices AD5781BRUZ.


 
  
 Okay, but in post #3906, I was asking about the DS version.


----------



## joebobbilly

Any Canadians who have gone through the upgrade process? I just wanna get some info for how hard this is gonna hit my wallet after shipping, customs/duty (if it did happen).
  
 PM me if you are willing to share your final total cost (in CAD or USD is fine)! Just need to know how much I gotta save/set aside realistically for this to happen... cause it is GONNA HAPPEN 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... just a matter of when I can scrap the cash together.


----------



## XenHeadFi

watchnerd said:


> Okay, but in post #3906, I was asking about the DS version.


 
 Well, since the rest of their DS DACs appear to be AKM4490's, I think eventually they will update since they can just buy one DS DAC instead of maintaining 2. Gungnir DS's probably are not moving very well especially with Jotunheim Balanced DS at $499.


----------



## Mediahound

I guess here's a good reason to leave any DAC on all the time:
  
http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Phase-Noise-Jitter-Report-0317-14.pdf
  
 AudioQuest found that there is increased jitter and phase issues for the first 24 hours of warm up.


----------



## AudioBear

Disclaimer:  I never turn my Gumby off and I am not expert on jitter.  I am very happy with my Gumby.
  
 I don''t want to start the old audible jitter threshold argument all over but I am not sure I could hear the reported jitter or phase effects.  The amplitude of the effect is small and if i am reading the graph correctly is largest at low frequencies that my Senn 800S are unlikely to be reproducing.  Call me insensitive.
  
 Am I missing something?


----------



## watchnerd

audiobear said:


> Disclaimer:  I never turn my Gumby off and I am not expert on jitter.  I am very happy with my Gumby.
> 
> I don''t want to start the old audible jitter threshold argument all over but I am not sure I could hear the reported jitter or phase effects.  The amplitude of the effect is small and if i am reading the graph correctly is largest at low frequencies that my Senn 800S are unlikely to be reproducing.  Call me insensitive.
> 
> Am I missing something?


 
  
 I don't think you're missing anything.
  
 I think you're correct -- the graph shows jitter above 100 Hz as being -130 dB.  This is below the noise floor of pretty much all electronics.


----------



## Mediahound

But we can perceive even beyond what is measurable apparently, at least according to:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-dac-amp-faq-in-3rd-post/26295#post_13030847
  


rob watts said:


> Unfortunately the ear/brain is very sensitive to this issue - noise floor modulation makes things sound bright, hard and aggressive. But actually we can hear levels well below the measuring limits of the best test gear; I have had digital FFT's with noise floor of -200 dB modulating to -190dB - something you would never be able to measure as it would be swamped by analogue noise - but removing the noise floor modulation results in the SQ becoming warmer and smoother.


----------



## AudioBear

OK, I'll say it.  I own a Mojo and I think Robb did a great job with it.  That notwithstanding, I'm not sure I buy his claim without a lot more data/information.   I won't doubt that he heard a difference, but it's tempting to speculate that it was not caused by the noise-floor modulation to which he attributes it. Unless it produces a secondary or indirect effect which is much larger that results in an audible signal it's inaudible. I am operating under the assumption that for a signal to sound warmer there must be changes in the amplitude of something that are within audibility-- say less than 60-70dB down. If nothing else this claim demonstrates that what we measure may not be the right parameters, or at least the ones that cause the differences we are hearing.  I'll grant Robb that much.


----------



## shapeshifter44

Quick Question: Should the DAC be connected to Mac (which supports 192k optical) via USB or optical? Is one dominant over the other?
 Thanks a lot.


----------



## watchnerd

mediahound said:


> But we can perceive even beyond what is measurable apparently, at least according to:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-dac-amp-faq-in-3rd-post/26295#post_13030847


 
  
 Sorry, but I don't take an undocumented, data-less post on an internet forum as some kind of evidence of proof.


----------



## Mediahound

watchnerd said:


> Sorry, but I don't take an undocumented, data-less post on an internet forum as some kind of evidence of proof.




 Rob watts is the dac designer for Chord, and knows what he's talking about. Believe what you will. 

 Schiit themselves say in the manual of the Yggy to leave it on all the time so there is a basis for the reasoning.


----------



## watchnerd

mediahound said:


> Rob watts is the dac designer for Chord, and knows what he's talking about. Believe what you will.


 
  
 I know who he is.  That doesn't make him immune to peer review.  Science and engineering don't advance just on say-so.  There are standards of evidence.
  
 As Carl Sagan said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Claiming something at -190 to -200 dB as audible is an extraordinary claim.


----------



## Mediahound

watchnerd said:


> I know who he is.  That doesn't make him immune to peer review.  Science and engineering don't advance just on say-so.  There are standards of evidence.
> 
> As Carl Sagan said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Claiming something at -190 to -200 dB as audible is an extraordinary claim.


 

 There is interaction with the ear & brain that simply cannot be measured. Because we don't know how to measure it does not mean there is no audible difference. 
  
 In this scenario your 'standards of evidence' would be your own listening tests and that of others confirming your findings.


----------



## watchnerd

mediahound said:


> There is interaction with the ear & brain that simply cannot be measured. Because we don't know how to measure it does not mean there is no audible difference.
> 
> In this scenario your 'standards of evidence' would be your own listening tests and that of others confirming your findings.


 
  
 Which is why we have ABX tests -- to make sure we're actually hearing something, and not just "hearing" a placebo.
  
 When Chord presents a paper at an AES conference in which they conducted a statistically significant double blind test of this theory, then we'll have extraordinary evidence to back up the extraordinary claims.  Until then, all we have is a pseudo-hypothesis.
  
 That being said, I leave all my electronics on all the time, cause it can't hurt and I'm lazy.


----------



## Mediahound

watchnerd said:


> Which is why we have ABX tests -- to make sure we're actually hearing something, and not just "hearing" a placebo.
> 
> When Chord presents a paper at an AES conference in which they conducted a statistically significant double blind test of this theory, then we'll have extraordinary evidence to back up the extraordinary claims.  Until then, all we have is a pseudo-hypothesis.
> 
> That being said, I leave all my electronics on all the time, cause it can't hurt and I'm lazy.


 

 Do you hold Schiit to a different standard? Should Schiit do a "paper at an AES conference in which they conducted a statistically significant double blind test of this theory" for their statement here?:
  
  http://schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/yggdrasil_manual_1_1.pdf
  


> *We recommend leaving Yggdrasil on continuously for best performance. *
> *Seriously. No kidding. *
> Yes, we know, this sounds like hoo-ha about “burn-in” and magick discs/stones/markers/etc. But in Yggy’s case, this is a real thing, and a serious recommendation.
> Why? Because the mil-spec D/A converters in Yggy really do operate best once they’re up to temperature. As with a lot of other components inside the box. So, the logical solution (at a power cost of $50-100 per year, depending on where you live) is simply to turn it on, and leave it on. This is facilitated by inconveniently placing the power switch in the rear.
> ...


----------



## watchnerd

mediahound said:


> Do you hold Schiit to a different standard? Should Schiit do a "paper at an AES conference in which they conducted a statistically significant double blind test of this theory" for their statement here?:
> 
> http://schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/yggdrasil_manual_1_1.pdf


 
  
 Schiit is not making claims of audibility.  They say right there, "we're not going to speculate on what you hear."
  
 They're not making extraordinary claims.


----------



## Mediahound

watchnerd said:


> Schiit is not making claims of audibility.  They say right there, "we're not going to speculate on what you hear."
> 
> They're not making extraordinary claims.


 

 Huh? It's quite clear Schiit believes there is audible differences. They just don't list the differences.


----------



## watchnerd

mediahound said:


> It's clear Schiit believes there is audible differences or they would not make the recommendation. They just don't list the differences.


 
  
 Inferring what Schiit does or doesn't believe, but doesn't say publicly, is speculative guess work.
  
 The point is that they didn't publicly make an extraordinary claim.  In fact, they explicitly wrote a disclaimer in the Yggy manual saying they don't know what you'll hear.
  
 Schiit posts a lot of specs, but they're very careful about claims of audibility.  Jason has even made statements about their policy on that.
  
 And, lastly, if they did make an extraordinary claim, yes, I would hold them to the same standard as Chord.


----------



## Mediahound

watchnerd said:


> Inferring what Schiit does or doesn't believe, but doesn't say publicly, is speculative guess work.


 

 Huh? 
  


> *We recommend leaving Yggdrasil on continuously for best performance.*
> *Seriously. No kidding.*
> Yes, we know, this sounds like hoo-ha about “burn-in” and magick discs/stones/markers/etc. But in Yggy’s case, this is a real thing, and a serious recommendation.


 
  
  
 It's clear as a bell what they believe.


----------



## watchnerd

mediahound said:


> Huh?
> 
> 
> 
> It's clear as a bell what they believe.


 
  
 No, it's not.
  
 One can say, "leave this device on because the components are biased to operate at a higher temperature and measure better when warmed up."
  
 One can also say, "leave this device on because it sounds better when warmed up."
  
 The statements are not the same.  And Schiit clearly demurred on the second statement *in writing*.
  
 One can feel confident about the first one (after all, spec sheets have recommended operating temps for electronic components), but have significant ambiguity about the second one regarding audibility.
  
 Regardless, if you want to believe something just because a DAC designer says it is true, that's your decision.
  
 I'm more skeptical and require more proof.
  
 To each their own.


----------



## Ableza

You want proof?  Buy one and try it.  Simple.


----------



## Brubacca

What is a good inexpensive CD Transport to use with a Gumby?. I hear that some like the Cambridge CDC and Apollo-r cause clicking between tracks or when paused because they drop the digital signal. 

What are you using for CDs into Gumby?


----------



## Rowethren

brubacca said:


> What is a good inexpensive CD Transport to use with a Gumby?. I hear that some like the Cambridge CDC and Apollo-r cause clicking between tracks or when paused because they drop the digital signal.
> 
> What are you using for CDs into Gumby?




Not used them myself but the OPPO players seem to be well reviewed. I personally have all my music on my PC then use an Asus Xonar Essences STX as an optical transport.


----------



## mikoss

God this discussion is pointless. If you can't hear the effects of jitter at that measured level, great. That leaves the rest of us who can. 

Enjoy your listening. It's well worth leaving your DAC on.


----------



## franzdom

brubacca said:


> What is a good inexpensive CD Transport to use with a Gumby?. I hear that some like the Cambridge CDC and Apollo-r cause clicking between tracks or when paused because they drop the digital signal.
> 
> What are you using for CDs into Gumby?


 
  
 I have Cambridge CX-C and Yggy and it's not doing anything like that, works really great!


----------



## amigastar

Hello,
  
 i have a question. i was asking myself if there is any possibility to hear the Gungnir MB before buying, like a loaning device for 1 or 2 weeks for like 30-35 euros or something.
 i know this may sound stupid but i would like to hear the device first before deciding that i want to buy it in the future?


----------



## Mr Rick

amigastar said:


> Hello,
> 
> i have a question. i was asking myself if there is any possibility to hear the Gungnir MB before buying, like a loaning device for 1 or 2 weeks for like 30-35 euros or something.
> i know this may sound stupid but i would like to hear the device first before deciding that i want to buy it in the future?


 
 This is the policy for US customers:
  
What about this 15-day satisfaction guarantee?
Just contact us via this form within 15 days of receipt of your order and we’ll give you a return authorization. When we receive your product in its original box, with any accessories intact, in like-new condition, we’ll refund the full purchase price of your product or products, minus a 5%-15% restocking fee (noted on each product page.) Of course, shipping is not included in the refund—you will pay full shipping to and from your location. Orders returned with damage or in non-stock packaging may be assessed an additional fee for reconditioning


----------



## amigastar

Hey Mr Rick,
  
 thank you, but i live in Europe, but i will look up if Europe has something similar. Good to know, thanks.


----------



## i019791

amigastar said:


> Hey Mr Rick,
> 
> thank you, but i live in Europe, but i will look up if Europe has something similar. Good to know, thanks.


 
 For loaning the only option is to convince a dealer.
 If you buy through internet order from within EU, you are entitled to refund (minus shipping expenses) without questions asked if you return it within 14 days.


----------



## watchnerd

ableza said:


> The transducers are the most important components of any audio chain.  For recorded playback of digital signals, there are three: the DAC changes the signal from digital to analog; the speaker (or headphone) changes the signal from electrical to mechanical; the brain interprets the signal from mechanical to neural impulses and perception.  I argue it's the last one, the brain, which has the largest impact.


 
  
 The brain and the DAC are certainly part of the chain, but they're not transducers.
  
 The definition of a transducer is device that converts energy from one from to another, such as electro-acoustic (speakers, microphones, vinyl cartridges), electro-mechanical (potentiometers), etc.
  
 DACs and amps operate solidly in the electrical domain so are not transducers.


----------



## watchnerd

earnmyturns said:


> I'm considering a Gumby (or a Yggy) for my living room system. However, the integration I have with various audio sources pretty much demands a means of remote iR switching between digital sources: USB, coax, and optical. Is there/does anyone recommend a good quality gadget that takes optical, coax, and USB in and outputs coax or USB, with a remote control? Thanks!


 
  
 I'm in a similar situation -- did you find a device that does this, i.e. a remote control digital switcher?


----------



## TJ Max

Tonight I received a Gungnir Multibit.
 I'm replacing  my Teac UD-501. I was wondering what if any physical difference are there between the Multibit and Non Multibit versions? I guess I was expecting it to say Multibit somewhere, but it doesn't.
 How can we tell them apart?


----------



## watchnerd

tj max said:


> Tonight I received a Gungnir Multibit.
> I'm replacing  my Teac UD-501. I was wondering what if any physical difference are there between the Multibit and Non Multibit versions? I guess I was expecting it to say Multibit somewhere, but it doesn't.
> How can we tell them apart?


 
  
 There should be a sticker on the back.


----------



## Dalgas

There is a very small sticker on the back - just below the rca coax digital input!

Congrats! You are in for a treat.


----------



## TJ Max

watchnerd said:


> There should be a sticker on the back.


 
  
  


dalgas said:


> There is a very small sticker on the back - just below the rca coax digital input!
> 
> Congrats! You are in for a treat.


 
  
  
 Oh I completely missed that little sticker of to the side! Thanks!


----------



## Mediahound

tj max said:


> Oh I completely missed that little sticker of to the side! Thanks!


 
  
  
 Picture:


----------



## nasiemp

Hi everyone ... I'm currently using an audiolab MDAC in my setup but have been curious about trying either the SCHIIT Gumby or Bimby. Anyone one have any experience or have heard the difference between the MDAC and these two? Worth the upgrade ? I am running a Parasound A21 into KEF LS50 speakers. 

Cheers
Nasiem


----------



## joeexp

nasiemp said:


> Hi everyone ... I'm currently using an audiolab MDAC in my setup but have been curious about trying either the SCHIIT Gumby or Bimby. Anyone one have any experience or have heard the difference between the MDAC and these two? Worth the upgrade ? I am running a Parasound A21 into KEF LS50 speakers.
> 
> Cheers
> Nasiem


 

 Get the Gumby - You are done.
 Just make sure you give it 10 days to properly warm up.
  
 Sell the MDAC asap!


----------



## TJ Max

bigbwb said:


> Recently snagged a used Gumby Multi bit. All is well so far except one thing. I'm using both the balanced out and one set of the rca outs. Balanced goes to my Parasound p7 preamp while the rca goes into a Yamaha receiver to feed some zones around my home. Problem is the rca outs into the Yamaha sound distorted? I tried switching the rca outs (there are two) same issue. I've read this isn't the first time soothing like this has happened.
> 
> Any thoughts or suggestions? My Parasound Zdac which was hooked up exactly the same didn't cause any distortion whatsoever......
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Since I got my Gumby 2 days ago I've experienced the same issue when connecting my powered off Pioneer Elite NX-30 to the Gumby's outputs.
 The second outputs on the Gumby are going to a Beyerdynamic A2 Headphone amplifier. When my Pioneer is off the A2 gets this crazy distortion in high energy passages of music.
 I know its not the Gumby's fault, but it is strange that this problem didn't manifest itself until I hooked up the Gumby. I didn't have this issue with my previous dac. Teac UD-501.
 I'm currently working around the problem by putting a CELabs A/V distribution amplifier in between my Pioneer and the Gumby.
 http://proav.celabs.net/av-products/av-distribution/composite-amplifiers/av400/ or just keep my receiver turned on and muted when using my A2.


----------



## nasiemp

joeexp said:


> Get the Gumby - You are done.
> Just make sure you give it 10 days to properly warm up.
> 
> Sell the MDAC asap!


 

 LOL, wow that is an overwhelming vote for Gumby ... any perspective on the Bimby vs. Gumby?  Is it really worth double the cost?

 Cheers,
 Nasiem


----------



## raybone0566

nasiemp said:


> LOL, wow that is an overwhelming vote for Gumby ... any perspective on the Bimby vs. Gumby?  Is it really worth double the cost?
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> ...


I recently upgraded from bimby. Improvements were noticeable. Gumby sounds more natural than bimby. I always thought bimby was shouty with nasty treble glare. That alone was worth it for me.


----------



## nasiemp

Cool!  Anybody got a Gumby for sale?? haha


----------



## dede4metal

nasiemp said:


> Cool!  Anybody got a Gumby for sale?? haha


 
 Not now maybe in the near future!


----------



## ToddRaymond

The Bimby is a very, very nice DAC.  The Gumby is somethin' else though.


----------



## joeexp

nasiemp said:


> LOL, wow that is an overwhelming vote for Gumby ... any perspective on the Bimby vs. Gumby?  Is it really worth double the cost?
> 
> Cheers,
> Nasiem


 

 Worth every penny! I promise you won't regret it.
 I owned both of them. Quite a step up from Bimby to Gumby.
  
 Just make sure it's powered on alll the time.


----------



## jrflanne

raybone0566 said:


> I recently upgraded from bimby. Improvements were noticeable. Gumby sounds more natural than bimby. I always thought bimby was shouty with nasty treble glare. That alone was worth it for me.


 

 I agree with that. The bimby can be a bit shouty or hard on some recordings. Like Rock n Roll Animal (which I have playing now). It is great for jazz, acoustic instruments and voice. The gumby is just so smooth and relaxed. The bimby is great for the price. The gumby is great for any price.


----------



## watchnerd

jrflanne said:


> I agree with that. The bimby can be a bit shouty or hard on some recordings. Like Rock n Roll Animal (which I have playing now). It is great for jazz, acoustic instruments and voice. The gumby is just so smooth and relaxed. The bimby is great for the price. The gumby is great for any price.


 
  
 Which do you think is more neutral?


----------



## RCBinTN

I've seen some GMB's for sale on the Head-Fi forum.  They don't last long.  Most of the sellers are upgrading to the Yggy.  That kinda says a lot about the Schiit DAC's.  FWIW friends.


----------



## reddog

rcbintn said:


> I've seen some GMB's for sale on the Head-Fi forum.  They don't last long.  Most of the sellers are upgrading to the Yggy.  That kinda says a lot about the Schiit DAC's.  FWIW friends.



I have been tempted to get another Yggdrasil, to replacec my GMB, lol. But for now I am going to wait and see what next year brings


----------



## mikoss

tj max said:


> Since I got my Gumby 2 days ago I've experienced the same issue when connecting my powered off Pioneer Elite NX-30 to the Gumby's outputs.
> The second outputs on the Gumby are going to a Beyerdynamic A2 Headphone amplifier. When my Pioneer is off the A2 gets this crazy distortion in high energy passages of music.
> I know its not the Gumby's fault, but it is strange that this problem didn't manifest itself until I hooked up the Gumby. I didn't have this issue with my previous dac. Teac UD-501.
> I'm currently working around the problem by putting a CELabs A/V distribution amplifier in between my Pioneer and the Gumby.
> http://proav.celabs.net/av-products/av-distribution/composite-amplifiers/av400/ or just keep my receiver turned on and muted when using my A2.



Shorted or grounded inputs are most likely the cause. Gumby doesn't like this happening, which causes distortion. This is probably caused by the Pioneer when it's turned off. Your fix is probably as good as any... Leave it muted. An AV splitter may cause signal degradation.


----------



## Dithyrambes

All this gumby love as me on the fence to get one. Only problem is I can't get one until i sell my alo cdm ><.


----------



## nasiemp

Just got one today for Xmas ... I know hear what all the hype is about.  Can't wait until its fully burned in.  How sweet it will sound then!  Definitely get one !!!


----------



## a44100Hz

Has anyone here tried the Bimby, Gumby and Yggy and preferred one of the first two?


----------



## mikoss

I could see Gumby being preferred with a colder/clinical sounding amplifier as it is a touch warmer than Yggy. I can't see anyone preferring Bimby to either... Mimby I could definitely see, as it's a lot cheaper, and arguably doesn't take as long for thermal stability/warmup. 

Mimby is also a decent trade off if you're just driving a headphone amp... Coming from Mike Moffat himself, Bimby/Gumby/Yggy have more sophisticated sounding bass, however it may not be apparent until you're running a speaker setup. 

I don't prefer Gumby to Yggy myself, as Yggy is ultimately more revealing/precise without sacrificing musicality with the amps I've used. The price was the deal breaker for myself, however if I were to recommend based on price alone, Mimby is clearly in a league of its own. 

To put it more bluntly, I have never forgotten the sound of Yggy the three or four sessions I listened, even after owning/using Gumby since it was released. Yggy is clearly superior to discerning ears.


----------



## a44100Hz

mikoss said:


> I could see Gumby being preferred with a colder/clinical sounding amplifier as it is a touch warmer than Yggy. I can't see anyone preferring Bimby to either... Mimby I could definitely see, as it's a lot cheaper, and arguably doesn't take as long for thermal stability/warmup.
> 
> Mimby is also a decent trade off if you're just driving a headphone amp... Coming from Mike Moffat himself, Bimby/Gumby/Yggy have more sophisticated sounding bass, however it may not be apparent until you're running a speaker setup.
> 
> ...




Thanks for your response. I ask because I have a Bimby now and can see a future where I upgrade to a Gumby or a Yggy. Just trying to figure out which makes more sense from a "will I be able to hear the difference for the price" perspective.


----------



## theveterans

a44100hz said:


> Thanks for your response. I ask because I have a Bimby now and can see a future where I upgrade to a Gumby or a Yggy. Just trying to figure out which makes more sense from a "will I be able to hear the difference for the price" perspective.


 
 They're not a big of a difference at initial listen, but after a few minutes, Yggy will reveal its strengths compared to lesser DACs at its price range. Gumby provides a slightly warmer signature but at a cost of less resolution compared to Yggy. Only DAC I could think of matching or outresolving yggy is Holo Audio Spring DAC Level 3 or Chord DAVE.


----------



## nasiemp

Anybody know how much burn in to expect with a new Gunby? I've had mine on since Xmas ... sounding good!!


----------



## Baldr

nasiemp said:


> Anybody know how much burn in to expect with a new Gunby? I've had mine on since Xmas ... sounding good!!


 

 Since it is brand new, it still needs 2-3 days to fully settle.


----------



## nasiemp

Anybody have any recommendations on good CD players to pair with the Gumby?


----------



## Ableza

nasiemp said:


>


 
 Emotiva ERC-3 would be a good low-cost option with tons of connectivity options.
  
 http://emotiva.com/products/sources/erc-3?gclid=CJiN_cHtl9ECFU2SfgodnC8BqA


----------



## TsKen

I screwed up and didn't get the USB upgrade for my Gumby.
  
 Would it be a bad idea to use my Xonar DG to get the optical output and connect it via Gumby?


----------



## Dithyrambes

tsken said:


> I screwed up and didn't get the USB upgrade for my Gumby.
> 
> 
> Would it be a bad idea to use my Xonar DG to get the optical output and connect it via Gumby?




Absolutely not. Optical actually sounds better than usb. Just check if the adapticlock light in the front is blinking. If not you are good to go


----------



## watchnerd

tsken said:


> I screwed up and didn't get the USB upgrade for my Gumby.
> 
> Would it be a bad idea to use my Xonar DG to get the optical output and connect it via Gumby?


 
  
 Yes, it's horrible, you'll tear a rift in space time and demons will pop out.
  
  
 Seriously, though, S/PDIF is superior to USB in many ways.  I tend to prefer coax when available, but optical is fine, too.


----------



## a44100Hz

Just another voice seconding the idea that USB tends to sound worst of the connection options. For my system it results in a reduced soundstage, a sense of bit rate compression, and graininess in the top end (like real snares sounding completely fake).


----------



## nasiemp

I'm using USB out it my Mac Mini along with an audio quest jitterbug and it doesn't sound that bad. Are you suggesting I should be using optical out of the Mac Mini for better results ??


----------



## a44100Hz

I can only speak to my experience with a Dell windows laptop and no USB decrapifier devices. I've read that Mac optical quality is inferior, but you could always give it a try.


----------



## watchnerd

nasiemp said:


> I'm using USB out it my Mac Mini along with an audio quest jitterbug and it doesn't sound that bad. Are you suggesting I should be using optical out of the Mac Mini for better results ??


 
  
 You should use Thunderbolt, actually.


----------



## Dave74

I finally decided to order a GUMBY after reading so many good things about Schiit's multibit DACS and how natural they sound. *Plus,* *I really like their business motto/ethics*.  I was a little hesitant as the CND$ is low now and the cost was around $2000 CND for the WYRD and GUMBY after taxes.  
  
 I was using a Chord Hugo as my DAC to my Sustain84(SE Class A tube amp) or Liquid Carbon to HD650's or Nighthawks.  I always though the Hugo to be a very good DAC especially for a transportable, but I felt like at times I was not quite their for a desktop setup.
  
 The majority of my listening so far with the GUMBY has been through the Sustain84 and HD650's as I am waiting for balanced interconnects for my Liquid Carbon, I still doubt the Liquid Carbon will sound better to me though. I do have a balanced cable for my Nighthawks and HD650's and have tried the balanced out of the LC and the Nighthawks definitely sound better on the LC with balanced, the HD650's I prefer on the SE Sustain84.  Keep in mind this could also be just do to the cables I am using.
  
 I think my GUMBY is taking longer than most to warm up as it is winter here and this room is not exactly hot. Probably around 17C at night and 19-20C during the day.  The GUMBY was only slightly warm to the touch at around the 30 hour mark.
  
 So, I received my GUMBY Wednesday around 10:30am and plugged it in around 12:00pm.   I started out using optical as I didn't have a  USB type A to type B cable (I needed 2 actually as I bought a WYRD as well).  At first listen after about 1 hour of turning the GUMBY on I found it to be on par or maybe even slightly better then my Hugo as a DAC.  It had a better (wider) soundstage and sounded less congested to me and also I was noticing details that I hadn't noticed on my Hugo. And it still retained the smoothness of the Hugo.   
  
 Thursday afternoon I bought 2 USB cables which put me around the 30 hour mark and the Gumby was continuing to sound very detailed, but not really enough bass for me and dare I say slightly colder than what I like. I was wondering why people were saying that compared to the YGGY the GUMBY was warmer and more euphonic sounding.  I've never hear the YGGY myself, but I was thinking that if this is warmer and more euphonic than the YGGY I was glad I didn't order the YGGY.  Don't get me wrong I was still happy with the GUMBY though, the instruments sounded very natural, detail retrieval was excellent,  just not much bass.  But, as others have said warm up is essential to these DACS, and in my next paragraph there is a big change for me so I could see a warm YGGY being exceptional. 
  
 Now this morning (Friday) with probably around 40 hours of warm up time *WOW...* this DAC seems  to have improved more closer to the 40 hour mark than during the first 24 hours (cooler room in house during winter probably doesn't help either, the case on the GUMBY is FINALLY getting warm) The bass has *definitely *improved and the music is sounding VERY natural to me with my HD650's. This is the best I have personally heard.  Dynamics are excellent, vocals are stunning, instruments sound like real live insturments.
  
  
 Excellent job @Baldr on this DAC!  I am loving it more and more as it continues to improve with warm up.  This is my end game DAC.


----------



## watchnerd

a44100hz said:


> I can only speak to my experience with a Dell windows laptop and no USB decrapifier devices. I've read that Mac optical quality is inferior, but you could always give it a try.


 
  
 2011 or later Mac Mini has a jitter of 20 pico-seconds on the optical out.
  
 That's a bit better than Atomic Bob's measurements for the Modi MB, and well below the range of caring about.
  
 Earlier Mac Mini models had 10x that.


----------



## nasiemp

watchnerd said:


> You should use Thunderbolt, actually.




Excuse my ignorance, but how would I use thunderbolt? Is there a thunderbolt to optical connector I could buy?

Cheers
Nasiem


----------



## joeexp

dave74 said:


> I finally decided to order a GUMBY after reading so many good things about Schiit's multibit DACS and how natural they sound. *Plus,* *I really like their business motto/ethics*.  I was a little hesitant as the CND$ is low now and the cost was around $2000 CND for the WYRD and GUMBY after taxes.
> 
> I was using a Chord Hugo as my DAC to my Sustain84(SE Class A tube amp) or Liquid Carbon to HD650's or Nighthawks.  I always though the Hugo to be a very good DAC especially for a transportable, but I felt like at times I was not quite their for a desktop setup.
> 
> ...


 

 My Gumby sounds best after around 10 days of warm-up. Never heard any DAC that does Piano better (apart from the Yggy maybe..)


----------



## US Blues

dave74 said:


> I think my GUMBY is taking longer than most to warm up as it is winter here and this room is not exactly hot. Probably around 17C at night and 19-20C during the day.  The GUMBY was only slightly warm to the touch at around the 30 hour mark.
> 
> 
> Excellent job @Baldr on this DAC!  I am loving it more and more as it continues to improve with warm up.  *This is my end game DAC.*


 
  
 The warm-up period does not refer to the temperature of the component itself, it's more about the internal electronic parts reaching a thermal and electrical stability. So, no worries about being in a cold room, and as was said above, give it until the 4th or 5th to really assess what you have. Congrats on finding your end-game DAC!


----------



## watchnerd

nasiemp said:


> Excuse my ignorance, but how would I use thunderbolt? Is there a thunderbolt to optical connector I could buy?
> 
> Cheers
> Nasiem


 
  
 I was mostly joking.  The Mac Mini has a Thunderbolt connector (if it's not too old).  Thunderbolt interfaces are sometimes used on the pro side for ADC/DAC for its improved capabilities over USB, mainly in the areas of latency.
  
 Feel free to ignore -- it was a geeky pro audio tech joke.


----------



## Ableza

Actually there are plenty of Thunderbolt audio interfaces - in the pro audio world.  No reason why they couldn't be used for hi fi.


----------



## Dave74

us blues said:


> The warm-up period does not refer to the temperature of the component itself, it's more about the internal electronic parts reaching a thermal and electrical stability. So, no worries about being in a cold room, and as was said above, give it until the 4th or 5th to really assess what you have. Congrats on finding your end-game DAC!


 
 Thanks
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I'm already very impressed with the Gumby and it's really only been on for around 2 days now
  


joeexp said:


> My Gumby sounds best after around 10 days of warm-up. Never heard any DAC that does Piano better (apart from the Yggy maybe..)


 

 10 days lol. I actually work out of town for 14 days on and 7 days off, so I don't really plan on leaving the Gumby on for the 14 days when I am not even at home  But I am actually extremely happy with how it sounds now after around 2 days time...But I won't complain if it gets even better


----------



## RCBinTN

I've heard the Yggy at a meet, and own the GMB. I love the GMB, but thought (in brief listening) that the Yggy was a bit more resolving.
  
 I remember a comment by Jason on his thread (months ago) that he prefers the GMB to Yggy for his home rig, due to the slightly warmer sound. FWIW.
  
 I recently changed from using an AQ Cinnamon toslink to a Wywires Platinum USB connection between my MacPro and the GMB. So far the SQ is great. I was a bit annoyed with the build quality of the Cinnamon. I was also apprehensive about going back to USB, as I'd had issues in the past with slow data transfer that caused the DAC to hang (on the bad data). Have not experienced any issues since going to the Platinum cable.
  
 Happy New Year / Sylvester to all.
  
 Enjoy your music!
 RCB


----------



## watchnerd

ableza said:


> Actually there are plenty of Thunderbolt audio interfaces - in the pro audio world.  No reason why they couldn't be used for hi fi.


 
  
 I do -- see my signature.


----------



## TsKen

dithyrambes said:


> Absolutely not. Optical actually sounds better than usb. Just check if the adapticlock light in the front is blinking. If not you are good to go


 
 Just got everything set up.. Took several hours and trips to best buy but wow...
  
 Mjolnir 2 + Gumby sounds amazing.. I was really handicapping myself with the Momby.
  
 Ugh wow I haven't stopped smiling since I put on the HD 650. The soundstage sounds bigger on the Gumby than my Momby and more engaging too. Love it.


----------



## DWbirdseye

tsken said:


> Just got everything set up.. Took several hours and trips to best buy but wow...
> 
> Mjolnir 2 + Gumby sounds amazing.. I was really handicapping myself with the Momby.
> 
> Ugh wow I haven't stopped smiling since I put on the HD 650. The soundstage sounds bigger on the Gumby than my Momby and more engaging too. Love it.



I've been enjoying this set up for almost a year now with both my 650 and 800S and it is very, very good. Congratulations!


----------



## sheldaze

tsken said:


> Mjolnir 2 + Gumby sounds amazing.. I was really handicapping myself with the Momby.
> 
> Ugh wow I haven't stopped smiling since I put on the HD 650. The soundstage sounds bigger on the Gumby than my Momby and more engaging too. Love it.


 
 I was shocked when I got around to doing the same DAC comparison in my speaker system. I enjoyed the Momby on headphones. It far surpassed regular Modi, and (to my ears) edged into the space between m9xx and Mojo. But at a price so much lower, it truly rocked the value of DACs forever!
  
 But once I listened in my more resolving speaker system, the difference was obvious. Same as what you heard, the soundstage of the Gumby was much bigger. I've not heard the Mjolnir 2, but the more I read about it, the more impressed I am with reviews of it. I'll certainly need to consider, if they ever _accidentally_ make it in black...


----------



## nasiemp

Anybody else using a Mac Mini as a source to the Gumby?  How are you connecting the two? USB, optical, USB to SPDIF converter?  What cables are you using as well?

 Cheers,
 Nasiem


----------



## mtoc

paradoxper said:


> BHSE is 400 volts, 1600V PP, IIRC.


 
  
 400V rms = 1131V p-p
 1600V p-p = 565.6V rms
  
 Is this correct?


----------



## watchnerd

nasiemp said:


> Anybody else using a Mac Mini as a source to the Gumby?  How are you connecting the two? USB, optical, USB to SPDIF converter?  What cables are you using as well?
> 
> Cheers,
> Nasiem


 
  
 What year of Mac Mini do you have?


----------



## nasiemp

Mid 2010/early 2011.


----------



## watchnerd

nasiemp said:


> Mid 2010/early 2011.


 
  
 Well, the 2011 or later Mac Mini has only 20 ps jitter on the optical out, which is good enough to make it the preferred choice.


----------



## nasiemp

Cool! I'll give the mini optical connection a try and see how it compares to USB with the audioquest jitterbug.


----------



## watchnerd

nasiemp said:


> Cool! I'll give the mini optical connection a try and see how it compares to USB with the audioquest jitterbug.


 
  
 Both should be well below audible.  If there is an audible difference, it's not from jitter.


----------



## Tompo88

Recently bought a Jot and loving it so far. Thinking of getting a gumby or bimby. Will be using hd650s or 400i's. Basically looking for some convincing opinions to help me decide.


----------



## theveterans

tompo88 said:


> Recently bought a Jot and loving it so far. Thinking of getting a gumby or bimby. Will be using hd650s or 400i's. Basically looking for some convincing opinions to help me decide.


 
  
 Keep the jot with the internal DAC and get Chord Mojo so you can have portable bliss too. If you only listen at home, definitely gumby since jot has balanced topology.


----------



## AudioBear

It really depends on how much you're willing to spend.  I love my Gumby and would recommend it but I keep looking at Yggy and wondering if I will ever get over Yggy envy.  I know Jason listens to Gumby which he finds warmer and more musical (not a exact quote) but it's always hard to resist bigger, better and more top of the line.


----------



## tjl5709

audiobear said:


> It really depends on how much you're willing to spend.  I love my Gumby and would recommend it but I keep looking at Yggy and wondering if I will ever get over Yggy envy.  I know Jason listens to Gumby which he finds warmer and more musical (not a exact quote) but it's always hard to resist bigger, better and more top of the line.


 

 Having been one of those that moved from Gumby to Yggy, I will add this to your mix. Although the price difference was a factor during my initial analysis, for me it came down to what my objective was in making a move. After doing all my research on this forum, as well as others, the common theme was that Yggy was more detailed and resolving while maintaining it's musicality. Being one that went thru the transition from vinyl to redbook (yes, I am old), I had always missed the sound of analog. It was more musical. It's why there has always been a nitch market around it. I feel the Schiit implementation of multibit DAC's gets me back to that sound. What amazes me most about these DAC's was just how much stuff they can pull out of a redbook. I have a large library of redbook CD's ripped to my PC, and when I play many of my favorites now, they provide a new experience. Not that they sound different, but that they reveal layers of instruments or voices I had never herd before. Yes, Yggy is not as warm, but I can provide that via other methods. My MJ2 with a nice set of valves does nicely. But up front, I want that resolution and detail thats closer to analog. Yggy provides more of that. Price difference be damned.


----------



## nasiemp

Hey guys ... anybody pairing the Cambridge CXC or CXN with the Gumby?  Good / bad / average? Coax/optical ?

 Cheers,
 Nasiem


----------



## artur9

Has the Gungnir ever been sold in black?


----------



## raybone0566

artur9 said:


> Has the Gungnir ever been sold in black?


This took me two seconds using google search. Just sayin'


----------



## sheldaze

Took me a little more effort, to take the picture, upload, etc... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It's what I'm listening to as I type:


----------



## Rowethren

Just out of interest how much does everyone's Gumby hum? Can you hear it from over a meter away?


----------



## artur9

raybone0566 said:


> This took me two seconds using google search. Just sayin'


 
 <me hangs head in shame>


----------



## Trerit

artur9 said:


> raybone0566 said:
> 
> 
> > This took me two seconds using google search. Just sayin'
> ...


 
 Ableza made his yggy black with a sheet of adhesive-backed flat black vinyl and an Xacto knife. Or you could do vinyl carbon fiber or whatever floats your boat.  So if you absolutely want it in black its not to hard to do


----------



## sheldaze

rowethren said:


> Just out of interest how much does everyone's Gumby hum? Can you hear it from over a meter away?


 

 None
 It does not hum


----------



## franzdom

nasiemp said:


> Hey guys ... anybody pairing the Cambridge CXC or CXN with the Gumby?  Good / bad / average? Coax/optical ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Nasiem


 
  
 I have CX-C with Yggy, coax. It is most excellent, to me it sounds a LOT better than lossless CD's served up from my computer. This is a very under-rated and understated CD solution, I love it!


----------



## nasiemp

franzdom said:


> I have CX-C with Yggy, coax. It is most excellent, to me it sounds a LOT better than lossless CD's served up from my computer. This is a very under-rated and understated CD solution, I love it!




Very nice! Thanks for the info. Will definitely check it out. I see a pair of cans and a headphone amp in your pic too. Is that a Schiit headphone amp? What came do you have ?


----------



## franzdom

nasiemp said:


> Very nice! Thanks for the info. Will definitely check it out. I see a pair of cans and a headphone amp in your pic too. Is that a Schiit headphone amp? What came do you have ?


 
  
 Thank you, it's all in my signature below. The cans are Audeze LCD one open, and one closed for later in the evening, and the amp in the picture (very recently taken) is the Jotunheim. 
 The Mjolnir is the same width as the CX-C. I was looking at the CXN but I am all set for DAC's, that is why I love the CX-C so much. They just focus on the CD transport!


----------



## RCBinTN

sheldaze said:


> None
> It does not hum


 
  
 Mine doesn't hum at all, either.
 However, it certainly makes headphones sing with great music!


----------



## davidflas

@Rowethren  I've had my Gungnir since 2013, upgraded it to USB Gen2, then Multibit, never heard any hum from it.


----------



## Rowethren

Thanks for the feedback, I think it might be to do with being in the UK so my voltage is 240 and the transformers don't run as efficiently. Ah well, can't hear it with music playing anyway just a slight hum when I am sitting at my desk reading.


----------



## joeexp

rowethren said:


> Thanks for the feedback, I think it might be to do with being in the UK so my voltage is 240 and the transformers don't run as efficiently. Ah well, can't hear it with music playing anyway just a slight hum when I am sitting at my desk reading.


 

 I'm in in the UK and my Gumby isn't humming or making any noise.
 Running at 230V doesn't make it any less efficient!


----------



## Rowethren

joeexp said:


> I'm in in the UK and my Gumby isn't humming or making any noise.
> Running at 230V doesn't make it any less efficient!




Interesting, that is what I was told by Schiit when I asked them about it. If it isn't a pain for you I don't suppose you would put your ear right next to your Gumby and listen for hum that close? If you do hear it then move your head away until you can't and estimate roughly how far away that is?

Just to clarify I mean hum coming from the DAC itself not from my speakers/headphones. Thanks for any assistance


----------



## Svatopluk

nasiemp said:


> Hey guys ... anybody pairing the Cambridge CXC or CXN with the Gumby?  Good / bad / average? Coax/optical ?
> 
> Cheers,
> Nasiem


 
 I have the CXC running coax out to the Gumby and the XLR output going to my HDVA600. Great sounding setup with HD800, T1 and Utopia.


----------



## TJ Max

I discovered a problem with my Gungnir. And I was wondering if it had been discussed already. I hooked my CD player to the Gungnir by the digital coax connection. When playing music everything is fine but when I paused the CD, the Gungnir continoulsy makes a rapid clicking noise. There also a loud click when changing tracks. But the continous clicking while the CD is paused is the troubling. It sounds like Gungnir will break or is broken.
The CD player is an Onkyo C-7030.


----------



## watchnerd

tj max said:


> I discovered a problem with my Gungnir. And I was wondering if it had been discussed already. I hooked my CD player to the Gungnir by the digital coax connection. When playing music everything is fine but when I paused the CD, the Gungnir continoulsy makes a rapid clicking noise. There also a loud click when changing tracks. But the continous clicking while the CD is paused is the troubling. It sounds like Gungnir will break or is broken.
> The CD player is an Onkyo C-7030.


 
  
 A clicking from the Gungnir itself or out of the speakers / headphones?


----------



## TJ Max

watchnerd said:


> A clicking from the Gungnir itself or out of the speakers / headphones?




From the Gungnir itself.


----------



## watchnerd

tj max said:


> From the Gungnir itself.


 
  
 What's the clock light doing?


----------



## Ableza

tj max said:


> I discovered a problem with my Gungnir. And I was wondering if it had been discussed already. I hooked my CD player to the Gungnir by the digital coax connection. When playing music everything is fine but when I paused the CD, the Gungnir continoulsy makes a rapid clicking noise. There also a loud click when changing tracks. But the continous clicking while the CD is paused is the troubling. It sounds like Gungnir will break or is broken.
> The CD player is an Onkyo C-7030.


 

 ​My guess is it is trying to lock onto a sampling rate, and the CD player is sending either nothing or garbage when in pause so the Gungnir does not know what sample rate to use.  My advice is don't use pause.


----------



## US Blues

tj max said:


> I discovered a problem with my Gungnir. And I was wondering if it had been discussed already. I hooked my CD player to the Gungnir by the digital coax connection. When playing music everything is fine but when I paused the CD, the Gungnir continoulsy makes a rapid clicking noise. There also a loud click when changing tracks. But the continous clicking while the CD is paused is the troubling. It sounds like Gungnir will break or is broken.
> The CD player is an Onkyo C-7030.


 

 My Gungnir does the same thing with Linn Genki CD player. As suggested below, the Gungnir is either not getting a signal to lock to, or it's getting garbage. This will NOT damage the Gungnir, but it makes pausing CD's an aurally painful endeavor.


----------



## Brubacca

franzdom said:


> I have CX-C with Yggy, coax. It is most excellent, to me it sounds a LOT better than lossless CD's served up from my computer. This is a very under-rated and understated CD solution, I love it!




Does the Gungnir "click" when you put the CX-C on pause?


----------



## franzdom

brubacca said:


> Does the Gungnir "click" when you put the CX-C on pause?


 
  
 I don't have an Gungnir but my Yggy will not click while the CX-C is on for pausing, changing tracks, stopping. When I hit the power switch on CX-C I do get a click.
 Actually I get 3 clicks when I turn CX-C on and only 1 click when I turn it off.


----------



## sheldaze

Using the same transport source, I hear many more clicks from the Gungnir than I do from my Yggdrasil.
  
 Yggy will not click while pausing, changing tracks, stopping, while Gumby clicks for each - including going back to the beginning of track, which sometimes results in some sound lost at the beginning of the track, depending on how close to the start of the track music was recorded.


----------



## Thenewguy007

rowethren said:


> Just out of interest how much does everyone's Gumby hum? Can you hear it from over a meter away?




Mine didn't hum with a quality power cable plugged directly to the wall.

When I needed the space for the wall outlet for another thing & used a cheaper power cable on the Gumby & plugged it in a surge protector, it started humming.

So try either a better cable or plugging it directly into the wall socket & not a power conditioner/sure protector.


----------



## RCBinTN

sheldaze said:


> Using the same transport source, I hear many more clicks from the Gungnir than I do from my Yggdrasil.
> 
> Yggy will not click while pausing, changing tracks, stopping, while Gumby clicks for each - including going back to the beginning of track, which sometimes results in some sound lost at the beginning of the track, depending on how close to the start of the track music was recorded.


 
  
 The only time my GMB clicks is when the incoming data rate is changed, like between 16/44.1 to 24/96.  Other than that, it does not click between tracks (of the same bit rate) or when re-starting a track.  It does not click when I pause the music.  My upstream feed is MacPro - JRMC22 - Wywires Platinum USB cable - GMB.  I agree with other posts that, if the GMB can't lock on to a signal it will keep trying, hence the clicking.
  
 Perhaps Mike @Baldr could chime in...
  
 FWIW,
 RCBinTN


----------



## TJ Max

watchnerd said:


> What's the clock light doing?


 
  
 It's not lit.
  


ableza said:


> ​My guess is it is trying to lock onto a sampling rate, and the CD player is sending either nothing or garbage when in pause so the Gungnir does not know what sample rate to use.  My advice is don't use pause.


 
  
 Don't use pause!? Um well it is what it is, but shouldn't. I have far cheaper DACs that have no issues with pausing with this same CD player. Not something expected from a $1250 piece of equipment. I'd rather route the audio to my receiver rather than just not pause it.
  
  


us blues said:


> My Gungnir does the same thing with Linn Genki CD player. As suggested below, the Gungnir is either not getting a signal to lock to, or it's getting garbage. This will NOT damage the Gungnir, but it makes pausing CD's an aurally painful endeavor.


 
  
 Yeah I tried another coax cable and I also tried it with a toslink optical. same same issue. I wonder of the Schiit dacs are firmware upgradeable.
  
  
 Update: ok this is documented on Schiit's website already,
 
*Clicking When Changing Sample Rates/Pausing/Etc.*
* *
*1. It’s totally normal for our Bifrost and Gungnir DACs to click (mechanically, from the chassis) during normal operation. That’s the muting relay, doing its job. It clicks whenever the SPDIF datastream is interrupted. *
 
*2. If it’s clicking excessively on a Mac or PC, you can reduce it by routing system sounds to the speaker on a Mac, rather than to the Schiit USB Audio Device output. On a PC, you can set system sounds to "no sounds." In both cases, using USB largely eliminates it.*
 
*3. If it’s clicking excessively on a CD transport when in pause, the CD transport has a cycling interruption in the datastream. There’s no real fix for this, except getting another CD transport. It won’t hurt the Bifrost or Gungnir, though—the relays are rated for several million cycles.*
  
 So basically they want me to buy a new CD player. So how does one know if a CD player has a cycling interruption in the data stream before they buy it?


----------



## Baldr

rcbintn said:


> The only time my GMB clicks is when the incoming data rate is changed, like between 16/44.1 to 24/96.  Other than that, it does not click between tracks (of the same bit rate) or when re-starting a track.  It does not click when I pause the music.  My upstream feed is MacPro - JRMC22 - Wywires Platinum USB cable - GMB.  I agree with other posts that, if the GMB can't lock on to a signal it will keep trying, hence the clicking.
> 
> Perhaps Mike @Baldr could chime in...
> 
> ...


 
  
 What he said!


----------



## Ableza

tj max said:


> So basically they want me to buy a new CD player. So how does one know if a CD player has a cycling interruption in the data stream before they buy it?


 
 Yes, the problem is your CD player is not outputting a steady bit rate signal in pause, so the mechanical relays inside the Gungnir are switching through every possible setting trying to find a signal to lock onto.  You need a better CD player.


----------



## franzdom

tj max said:


> It's not lit.
> 
> 
> Don't use pause!? Um well it is what it is, but shouldn't. I have far cheaper DACs that have no issues with pausing with this same CD player. Not something expected from a $1250 piece of equipment. I'd rather route the audio to my receiver rather than just not pause it.
> ...


 
  
 I wonder how Yggy is different. I have a Bimby, I can test it with Cambridge CX-C and report back. It's not crazy expensive but it is really well built, and you aren't paying for another DAC because it's a transport only.


----------



## Ableza

Yggdrasil uses mechanical relays to lock onto a sampling rate as well.


----------



## TsKen

I'm not a technical expert so I wanted to get your advice on setting up the Gumby...
  
 So my Gumby has no USB function and from what people have recommended here, optical is better than through USB.
  
 But in order to use optical, I have to either get a soundcard or a receiver to create a optical output to connect to my Gumby.
  
 So depending on the quality of my soundcard or receiver, wouldn't it affect the sound quality that gets transmitted to my DAC?
  
 For example, I tested the output of my laptop and my phone and they both sound completely different from each other. In that case I have a few questions.
  
 1. is the DAC(Gumby) even doing anything about the SQ?
  
 2. Does the source(laptop/phone/soundcard/receiver) have a large impact on the SQ?
  
 3. I'm using 3.5mm to RCA cable > receiver > output optical. Is that not a proper setup? Should I get a receiver with USB function instead?
  
 Thank you to anyone that can answer these questions, I have a feeling I might be setting it up wrong.


----------



## watchnerd

tsken said:


> 3. I'm using 3.5mm to RCA cable > receiver > output optical. Is that not a proper setup? Should I get a receiver with USB function instead?


 
  
 What's the source in that scenario?
  
 As for the quality of optical sources -- yes, they can vary.  Some have very high jitter, some have very low jitter (recent Macs, for example, have 20 ps jitter).  Whether this difference is audible depends on how bad it is.
  
 That being said, which of the clock lights is coming on with your Gumby?  That should be an indicator.


----------



## TsKen

watchnerd said:


> What's the source in that scenario?
> 
> As for the quality of optical sources -- yes, they can vary.  Some have very high jitter, some have very low jitter (recent Macs, for example, have 20 ps jitter).  Whether this difference is audible depends on how bad it is.
> 
> That being said, which of the clock lights is coming on with your Gumby?  That should be an indicator.


 
  
 I guess my source would be coming out of my laptop?
 Laptop > 3.5mm to RCA output > receiver > optical output > Gumby(optical input) > Mjolnir 2
  
 I have a conversion table of 3.5mm to RCA which then converts the RCA to optical into the Gumby.
  
 On my Gumby, the light is on for optical input(2nd light) from the left.
  
 I do notice a different in the sound when I change laptop to my phone so I wonder if the receiver is affecting the SQ.
  
 I'm also usin a really cheap receiver.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HERN6EI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 so I am wondering if this set up affects the SQ that's going into my Gumby. Does my Gumby even do anything then?


----------



## artur9

tsken said:


> I guess my source would be coming out of my laptop?
> Laptop > 3.5mm to RCA output > receiver > optical output > Gumby(optical input) > Mjolnir 2
> 
> ....
> ...


 
 You gotta get the digital out from that laptop somehow.  All you're doing now is playing whatever-the-laptop SQ into the receiver which digitizes it.  So, it's whatever your laptop sounds like.
  
 You really want 
          laptop (digital output) -> Gumby -> receiver analog input
 for the best sound.
  
 The laptop might have a combo-headphone optical jack.  Macs do  that except for the most recent ones.  If not, pick up a cheap USB->SPDIF converter (cheapest one I saw). eBay has some good ones for cheap, too.  Sky's the limit on the pricing for those but if that doesn't make any difference then your receiver is the next weak link.


----------



## TsKen

artur9 said:


> You gotta get the digital out from that laptop somehow.  All you're doing now is playing whatever-the-laptop SQ into the receiver which digitizes it.  So, it's whatever your laptop sounds like.
> 
> You really want
> laptop (digital output) -> Gumby -> receiver analog input
> ...


 
 Nevermind, what you said makes a lot of sense.
  
 Thank you for the help!!


----------



## RCBinTN

Need some advice from the GMB folks.  I have a MacPro (mid-2014) running JRMC22.  I had been using a toslink optical cable (AQ Cinnamon) between the Mac and the GMB.  In my quest for better SQ, I recently changed to USB.
  
 Now, I am experiencing music drop-outs.
  
 The drop-outs appear to be random.  They don't happen between songs, or when changing to different bit-rate music, or even every day.  The music will just be playing along, then it will stop, the GMB will click once, and JRMC will freeze up.  The "buy better gear" light on GMB does not come on.  I have to close JRMC, then re-open it and can again play music.  I often will replay the same song w/o an issue.  The freeze has also happened at times when I pause the music (for another beer), then come back after two minutes and JRMC is frozen up.
  
 I never experienced issues like this with the AQ Cinnamon connection.
  
 The USB is a high-quality cable.  It's direct from the Mac to the GMB, no Wyrd or other powered hub in-between.  The USB's on the Mac are USB3 and seem (according to the Mac data) to have plenty of reserve power to drive the GMB.
  
 Thanks in advance for your help!
  
 All the Best,
 RCBinTN


----------



## watchnerd

rcbintn said:


> Need some advice from the GMB folks.  I have a MacPro (mid-2014) running JRMC22.  I had been using a toslink optical cable (AQ Cinnamon) between the Mac and the GMB.  In my quest for better SQ, I recently changed to USB.
> 
> Now, I am experiencing music drop-outs.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What happens if you don't use JRMC?
  
 Does it do it in other players?
  
 Fairly likely it's a software-side problem, not cables of Gumby related.


----------



## RCBinTN

My only other player option would be the AK240, not sure I have a cable that would connect it to the GMB.  As for the Mac, the only player is JRMC.


----------



## sheldaze

My response may not be helpful unless you recall a setting you may have changed in JRMC - I'm not familiar with it as my preferred player software is Audirvana+. However I noticed, when using the digital output from my Mac, the A+ software did not make as much of a change in sound. It was as-if my Mac or MacOS software were already optimized to send audio via the digital output. But when using the USB output, A+ software was almost a "must have". That is the A+ optimizations (I turned on a few) were making a significant difference when output was sent via USB.
  
 Also, I try to find a USB with fewest devices. I saw something about this in the Mac software playback thread. Hope you know how to follow through the steps, About this Mac, to find what's being shared on the USB.


----------



## watchnerd

rcbintn said:


> My only other player option would be the AK240, not sure I have a cable that would connect it to the GMB.  As for the Mac, the only player is JRMC.


 
  
 You can't try iTunes?
  
 Or download another player?


----------



## RCBinTN

Thanks for your ideas, folks.  I may explore Audirvana+ based on @sheldaze input.  I've not used anything other than JRiver since I started down this path of the high-res music.
  
 I did discover one thing, yesterday when I had a couple of drops.  JRiver did not freeze up as I had earlier thought.  JRiver was fine, it just wouldn't play any music through the Gumby.  It almost seems like the GMB rejects the USB input and stops the music, and then won't start unless I restart JRiver.  I'm still looking for the root cause.
  
 I'm thinking about just going back to the toslink connection (maybe with a better USB cable than the Cinnamon).
  
 All the Best -
 RCB


----------



## AudioBear

I've been happy with Audirvana+ and have also used Amara and Fidelio.  The new Apple OS has eliminated the Direct mode I think in all of these,  It doesn't seem to affect the sound but purists being what they are, there is a Sierra workaround that allows Direct mode on the Audirvana+ forum.  Basically it's just reinstalling a El Capitan sound driver which is a little convoluted but there is a good guide on the forum.


----------



## RCBinTN

I should have included my OS info - the MacPro is running El Capitan 10.11.6.


----------



## thomascrown

rcbintn said:


> I should have included my OS info - the MacPro is running El Capitan 10.11.6.


 
 As suggested before, have you tried playing some music with itunes or vlc or spotify...? At least to exclude the hardware issue.


----------



## Pyrolistical

I'm considering upgrading from a Modi 2 Uber to a Gungnir MB, but one thing that is really annoying is a single button to switch between all the sources.
  
 I only have two sources which I use evenly, optical and usb.  Cycling from optical back to usb is going to take 3 presses of the button.  That doesn't sound like a lot, but it gets annoying fast when I switch between the two sources multiple times a day.
  
 I would love to see an ability to either disable sources, have input sensing, or one button per source on the front.


----------



## Exidrion

Never thought I'd see the day pushing a button a few times influenced the decision between Modi and Gungnir.


----------



## jchandler3

pyrolistical said:


> I'm considering upgrading from a Modi 2 Uber to a Gungnir MB, but one thing that is really annoying is a single button to switch between all the sources.
> 
> I only have two sources which I use evenly, optical and usb.  Cycling from optical back to usb is going to take 3 presses of the button.  That doesn't sound like a lot, but it gets annoying fast when I switch between the two sources multiple times a day.
> 
> I would love to see an ability to either disable sources, have input sensing, or one button per source on the front.




Sounds like you value (mild) convenience more than sound quality. May as well save the money and stick with the Modi...


----------



## Baldr

rcbintn said:


> I should have included my OS info - the MacPro is running El Capitan 10.11.6.


 

 Check and see if JR is running in exclusive mode and try changing that.


----------



## artur9

jchandler3 said:


> Sounds like you value (mild) convenience more than sound quality. May as well save the money and stick with the Modi...


 

 That is so unlike an audiophile.  What ever happened to adjusting the VTA, SRA, skate etc on a turntable regularly and then cleaning the record before every play?  Pushing a button is nothing!
  
 Has anyone come out with a bit cleaner/demagnetizer yet?  Then we can follow a similar ritual for digital files.  Clean the bits, press play.


----------



## tlainhart

I'd like to get a Gungnir MB to slip into my home two-channel system.  It will take the output of my CD player, and feed that into my integrated amp and my Jotunheim.  Single-ended into the amp, and balanced into the Jot.  The Jot will also take single-ended in from the amp.
  
 My CD player has Toslink (optical) and Coax (RCA) outputs.  Is one hardware format preferred over the other in terms of input to the GMB?


----------



## JohnBal

tlainhart said:


> I'd like to get a Gungnir MB to slip into my home two-channel system.  It will take the output of my CD player, and feed that into my integrated amp and my Jotunheim.  Single-ended into the amp, and balanced into the Jot.  The Jot will also take single-ended in from the amp.
> 
> My CD player has Toslink (optical) and Coax (RCA) outputs.  Is one hardware format preferred over the other in terms of input to the GMB?


 
 I don't have the Gumby, but I've always found that coax is superior. YMMV


----------



## RCBinTN

baldr said:


> Check and see if JR is running in exclusive mode and try changing that.


 
  
 Mike - thanks for the tip.  My JRiver had exclusive mode enabled.  I disabled that feature, and listened tonight for 2-hours with no drop-outs at all.  I also paused the music several times and re-started w/o issue.
  
 I don't know what "exclusive mode" means in JRMC...perhaps others can chime in on that question.
  
 I really hoped that I could continue using the USB feed - and today it looks promising.
  
 Thank you -
 RCB


----------



## musickid

how does this compare to modimultibit. running through small earmaxpro tube amp.


----------



## Rowethren

musickid said:


> how does this compare to modimultibit. running through small earmaxpro tube amp.




I can't compair to the modi multibit but I have a Bimby and I can tell you that the sound is cleaner and more energetic with a bigger soundstage, some people say less bass but I actually found there was a tad more and it was certainly more textured but maybe I am weird. I know this is a comparison between a different item but by all accounts the modi multibit is only a little bit behind the Bimby so it should help a bit.


----------



## musickid

HELLO THERE,
  
 Is that the bifrost multibit. i have an idea to upgrade to gunj mb but from mimby but i am not sure if it is going to give me a good sq improvement. any ideas? also how is gunj mb with tube amp sound. thanks


----------



## Rowethren

musickid said:


> HELLO THERE,
> 
> Is that the bifrost multibit. i have an idea to upgrade to gunj mb but from mimby but i am not sure if it is going to give me a good sq improvement. any ideas? also how is gunj mb with tube amp sound. thanks




Bimby is indeed the Bifrost Multibit. Regarding the jump from Mimby to Gumby it will definitely be an overall improvement is pretty much everything as it was when I went from Bimby to Gumby. 

I use the Schiit Mjolnir 2 with iFi NOS 6922 (tubes) and it is a great combination to my ears. The combination is overall very smooth with buckets of impact and detail. For reference the headphones I use with this combo are the Ether Flows and the Sony Z1R. Hope that helps


----------



## Doug2507

Any OPPO HA-1 (SE) owners here? Had one myself but wasn't 100% convinced by it even after burn in and moved it on.
  
 Looking to go down a different route and the Gungnir has caught my eye, mainly as it uses ladder DAC's which my MSB in the main rig also does.
  
 Anyone had both side by side for comparison?


----------



## Megalith

What would the solution be if I wanted to integrate a volume knob into the chain?


----------



## watchnerd

megalith said:


> What would the solution be if I wanted to integrate a volume knob into the chain?


 
  
 Into what chain? Between what and what?
  
 Love to help, but need more info.


----------



## Megalith

watchnerd said:


> Into what chain? Between what and what?
> 
> Love to help, but need more info.


 
  
 Just between the Gungnir and studio monitors. I hate the idea of software volume control.


----------



## theveterans

megalith said:


> Just between the Gungnir and studio monitors. I hate the idea of software volume control.


 
  
 Just get the Freya and unleash the awesomeness of your Gungnir and your monitors. Also buy a matching quad RCA 5692 tubes along with your Freya.


----------



## winders

megalith said:


> Just between the Gungnir and studio monitors. I hate the idea of software volume control.


 
  
 http://schiit.com/products/sys


----------



## Megalith

The Sys isn't an option because I want to keep the entire chain balanced.
  
 The Freya looks interesting—but I don't know if it would be overkill, as my studio monitors are powered.


----------



## watchnerd

megalith said:


> Just between the Gungnir and studio monitors. I hate the idea of software volume control.


 
  
 I have the Freya, but I'm not going to suggest it if you only have 1 source and it's the Gungnir, and you're driving balanced XLR input monitors, unless you need the remote control.
  
 Just get a passive XLR/TRS 2 channel in-out volume attenuator.  The pro audio side is full of them, plenty for <$100.


----------



## watchnerd

megalith said:


> The Sys isn't an option because I want to keep the entire chain balanced.
> 
> The Freya looks interesting—but I don't know if it would be overkill, as my studio monitors are powered.


 
  
 JBL Nano Patch, $59:
  
 https://www.amazon.com/JBL-NPATCH-BLK-Compact-Controller/dp/B01I3B0OH6/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1485746170&sr=1-1&keywords=jbl+nano+patch


----------



## Megalith

watchnerd said:


> JBL Nano Patch, $59:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/JBL-NPATCH-BLK-Compact-Controller/dp/B01I3B0OH6/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1485746170&sr=1-1&keywords=jbl+nano+patch


 
  
 Thanks. The first one I clicked on was $491...
  
 http://www.goldpt.com/sa1x.html


----------



## artur9

megalith said:


> The Sys isn't an option because I want to keep the entire chain balanced.


 
 Emotiva makes one (used to make one?) called the Control Freak.


----------



## Sam Lord

I second theveterans on this.  First, in a decent system the Freya will NEVER be overkill.  There is no other single chassis in existence with so many useful operating modes, and the price is silly.  Silly as in many people would pay 20x the list price for a Freya and not regret it.  Good-sounding tube pres are worth every penny, they can transform a system.  And there are no remote-controlled, balanced, unity-gain-buffer preamps other than the Freya.  Unobtanium.  EDIT: Okay there are a couple of units with *variable gain* like the Ayre KX5, KXR, and the Mola-Mola Makua, all more than 10x Freya's price...
  
 The alternatives with continuous pots aren't as good, except for a handful that cost more with fewer features (like the Slagle or Pass B1).  And without remote control.
  
 Megalith, try the Freya.  Compare it to anything you can afford; you will keep it.  I say this before having heard the Freya, but believing reviews and trusting Mike.  I have a Saga now but no place to put it yet, won't be too long.  Freya for the big system when the computer's rebuilt. 
  
 Quote:


watchnerd said:


> JBL Nano Patch, $59:


 
 Quote:


megalith said:


> Thanks. The first one I clicked on was $491... http://www.goldpt.com/sa1x.html


 


watchnerd said:


> I have the Freya, but I'm not going to suggest it if you only have 1 source and it's the Gungnir, and you're driving balanced XLR input monitors, unless you need the remote control.
> Just get a passive XLR/TRS 2 channel in-out volume attenuator.  The pro audio side is full of them, plenty for <$100.


 
 Quote:


theveterans said:


> Just get the Freya and unleash the awesomeness of your Gungnir and your monitors. Also buy a matching quad RCA 5692 tubes along with your Freya.


----------



## jcn3

i use this passive pre-amp: https://luminousaudio.com/collections/axiom-ii-passive-preamp/products/axiom-ii-passive-preamp-xlr.  beautifully built, balanced, and very reasonably priced.


----------



## watchnerd

sam lord said:


> Quote:
> Quote:


 
  
 Freya is still overkill if you all you care about is passive attenuation, a single source, and don't need a remote.
  
 Remember, passive stages (Freya or otherwise) don't "improve" sound, they just get out of the way.  They should have no sound signature, per se.


----------



## Sam Lord

watchnerd said:


> Freya is still overkill if you all you care about is passive attenuation, a single source, and don't need a remote.
> 
> Remember, passive stages (Freya or otherwise) don't "improve" sound, they just get out of the way.  They should have no sound signature, per se.


 
  
 Yours are good points (as usual), but I have two comments.  First, the single source requirement can increase to several at any time, especially in these days of new media types.  And the cost of the multi-input flexibility in the Freya is not high: a larger chassis, more relays, and more connectors.  Same for remote control, it can suddenly become very handy when the listening space and/or equipment changes.
  
 Second, the buffered output is a big benefit over passive operation.  Sure, most users say passive is *very* close to buffered SQ in the Freya, but nobody calls it better.  Buffering is a truly ideal way to transmit the output from DACs and other line-level sources.  I expect virtually nobody will use passive in the Freya after they've tried the buffered outputs.


----------



## watchnerd

sam lord said:


> Second, the buffered output is a big benefit over passive operation.  Sure, most users say passive is *very* close to buffered SQ in the Freya, but nobody calls it better.  Buffering is a truly ideal way to transmit the output from DACs and other line-level sources.  I expect virtually nobody will use passive in the Freya after they've tried the buffered outputs.


 
  
 A) The OP said he wanted passive, not buffered. I don't know why you're trying to push something he didn't ask for.
  
 B) I own the Freya. I prefer passive to buffered when listening to a balanced DAC.


----------



## Sam Lord

watchnerd said:


> A) The OP said he wanted passive, not buffered. I don't know why you're trying to push something he didn't ask for.
> 
> B) I own the Freya. I prefer passive to buffered when listening to a balanced DAC.


 
  
 Few people have heard buffered stages, most just think passive when they want something really transparent.  So I urged him to look at what Freya offers.  Just curious, what about the passive balanced mode do you like better?  Are your output interconnects fairly short?  Sorry everyone for going OT; I figured the Freya interest would be strong among the Gungnir owners.


----------



## jcn3

sam lord said:


> Few people have heard buffered stages, most just think passive when they want something really transparent.  So I urged him to look at what Freya offers.  Just curious, what about the passive balanced mode do you like better?  Are your output interconnects fairly short?  Sorry everyone for going OT; I figured the Freya interest would be strong among the Gungnir owners.


 
  
 for me, i don't need freya's functionality since all my inputs are digital (intel nuc and cd player) -- gumby meets my input selector needs.  i find the mjolnir/gumby combination more compelling because of the quality of the mjolnir's headphone amp and the simple preamp/volume control functionality.  i almost sold my stax rig to get a mjolnir, but decided to keep it and go the passive route with my balanced axiom.


----------



## RCBinTN

rcbintn said:


> Mike - thanks for the tip.  My JRiver had exclusive mode enabled.  I disabled that feature, and listened tonight for 2-hours with no drop-outs at all.  I also paused the music several times and re-started w/o issue.
> 
> I don't know what "exclusive mode" means in JRMC...perhaps others can chime in on that question.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Brief update on my drop-out issue with the USB to GMB connection.  
  
 After using Mike's @Baldr recommendation (disabling the JRMC exclusive mode), the system played two listening sessions (over two days) for about 5-hrs with no drops.  All was great, I was a happy listener.  Then, the music dropped.  Same deal as before - the music just playing along, no changes to bit rate or anything else.  
  
 So, it seems the JRMC exclusive mode was only part of the solution.  Any other ideas from the community?  Thanks in advance.
  
 Next up will be replacing the USB with a toslink cable.
  
 Enjoy your music!
 RCB


----------



## jcn3

rcbintn said:


> Brief update on my drop-out issue with the USB to GMB connection.
> 
> After using Mike's @Baldr recommendation (disabling the JRMC exclusive mode), the system played two listening sessions (over two days) for about 5-hrs with no drops.  All was great, I was a happy listener.  Then, the music dropped.  Same deal as before - the music just playing along, no changes to bit rate or anything else.
> 
> ...


 
  
 can you post some pics of your settings in jriver?  specifically interested in seeing the settings from the audio tab and any dsp settings.
  
 also -- have you tried switching out the usb cable to confirm its not the problem?  stranger things have happened . . .


----------



## RCBinTN

jcn3 said:


> can you post some pics of your settings in jriver?  specifically interested in seeing the settings from the audio tab and any dsp settings.
> 
> also -- have you tried switching out the usb cable to confirm its not the problem?  stranger things have happened . . .


 
  
 PM of the screen shots sent.  Thanks for your interest to help me!
  
 Last night the USB was dropping again, randomly, so changed back to the AQ Cinnamon toslink cable.  No drops, rock solid (only 2-hrs of data), but the SQ isn't as good as with the Wywires platinum USB cable.  It's still my goal to fix this drop-out issue and use the USB connection if possible!
  
 Cheers,
 RCB


----------



## artur9

rcbintn said:


> No drops, rock solid (only 2-hrs of data), but the SQ isn't as good as with the Wywires platinum USB cable.  It's still my goal to fix this drop-out issue and use the USB connection if possible!


 
 Don't remember if you said you had a Wyrd or something like that to try?


----------



## musickid

im hoping to upgrade from a modi multibit to a gunjnir multibit. which would give me best SQ an intona industrial or a usb to spdif convertor on this dac. something like an ifi convertor or an intona industrial similar price. the intona does galvanic islolation something im not sure about with all convertors. many thanks
  
 Also i don't understand this adapticlock function--
  
  
 with vco and vcxo clocking i am worried that after spending so much on the dac my source might cause the gungnir multibit to utilise vco so i dont get the full potential of the dacs capabilities. *what kind of sources trigger vco *and if i use tidal hifi flac with a decent usb to spdif convertor can i be sure 100% that the dac will always utilise the superior vcxo clocking.


----------



## RCBinTN

Hi All, an update on my music dropping issue.
  
 First, no Wyrd or any other USB power hub between the Mac and GMB, just the USB cable.  I tried a Wyrd (a couple years ago), it seemed to work but I got tired of the extra box & wall wart, so sold it and went to toslink.  According to the Mac's USB data, it has plenty of power to run the GMB by itself (if the Mac isn't distracted from this task).
  
 In the last days, made some program changes to JRMC - thanks @jcn3- removed the upsampling, now letting the GMB perform that task, and changed the channel setting to "source."  Testing today w/ the USB connection.
  
 Meanwhile, I acquired an AQ Diamond toslink cable just in case these changes don't work.  I must say, the rig sounds great w/ the Diamond cable - every bit as good as the Wywires Platinum USB.  A big upgrade from the AQ Cinnamon toslink that I was using.  The Diamond and Platinum USB sound similar to my ears.
  
 Thanks all for your help!  Will advise if any new info surfaces.
  
 Cheers,
 RCB


----------



## Baldr

musickid said:


> with vco and vcxo clocking i am worried that after spending so much on the dac my source might cause the gungnir multibit to utilise vco so i dont get the full potential of the dacs capabilities. *what kind of sources trigger vco *and if i use tidal hifi flac with a decent usb to spdif convertor can i be sure 100% that the dac will always utilise the superior vcxo clocking.


 
  
 In my/our experience the vco is only triggered on really bad sources (CD players with digital outs made in the Jurrasic era, cheap ass satellite boxes, etc.).  The poibt is that these sources are very rare and you will be warned because the "Buy Better Gear" light will illuminate on the Gumby.


----------



## musickid

if i use a usb to spdif convertor with gimby.......
  
 HI,
  
 Do you know what kind of info shows up on mac audio midi set up with a usb to spdif convertor. ie sample and bit rate and can it be altered in the same way that a dac's settings can. especially for breeze du-u8 covertor but in general for usb to spdif convertors. ive been told for eg some convertors have a fixed sample rate output regardless of sample rate input from usb side from computer. finally how do you know 100% that the convertor is actually inputting a coax signal into the dac as the dac does not show up in settings. or is that an obvious question ie the dac would not output any signal to the amp and you would have no sound if the coax signal was not entering the dac. i am completely new to the usb convertor world. thanks mk.


----------



## eschell27

Forgive me for the possibly silly question that could probably be answered by doing a little homework...i plan on digging through this thread a bit but since i am on a time crunch (have the oppotunity to buy a gumby second hand but need to decide ASAP) i thought i would ask.
  
 Would there be any hardware or software differences between a gumby made in 2015 and one purchased new from schiit now? I didn't think so from my light research on the matter, but wanted to make sure. Finally decided to jump the AGD boat and try out a Gumby... i am looking forward to it, since getting more serious about audio hardware last year i have yet to make it to a meet or get a chance to hear any of the schiit multibit dacs.
  
 Anyway, thanks in advance.


----------



## AudioBear

I don't think so either.  At least none that are significant.  First there was Gungnir, then came Gumby when multiunit DACs were made available for an up charge.  I guess officially these are Gungnir and Gungnir MB.  Those are the only two significant differences.  Schiit may have changed circuitry slightly (unlikely) or parts suppliers for some parts  (more likely) but these would not be considered significant changes.  One of Schiit's economies is trying to do it right the first time.  Another is buying large batches of parts that are used across several models.  This speaks against frequent changes.
  
 To restate the obvious, be careful if you are buying a gungnir which is a very good dac, or a gungnir MB which is an even better Dac.


----------



## gzubeck

eschell27 said:


> Forgive me for the possibly silly question that could probably be answered by doing a little homework...i plan on digging through this thread a bit but since i am on a time crunch (have the oppotunity to buy a gumby second hand but need to decide ASAP) i thought i would ask.
> 
> Would there be any hardware or software differences between a gumby made in 2015 and one purchased new from schiit now? I didn't think so from my light research on the matter, but wanted to make sure. Finally decided to jump the AGD boat and try out a Gumby... i am looking forward to it, since getting more serious about audio hardware last year i have yet to make it to a meet or get a chance to hear any of the schiit multibit dacs.
> 
> Anyway, thanks in advance.


 
 Theres a huge price difference between the regular gungnir vs. the gunginir multibit. About 50% more...so make sure your getting what your paying for...


----------



## eschell27

Roger that, yeah i was aware of the model differences. Dealing with a reputable person... only looking for a gungnir MB ( Gumby) not a gungnir. After starting with a DS dac then going to a multibit dac-19 i can't imagine i'll be getting anything but multibit dacs for the foreseeable future. Thanks for the replies!


----------



## AudioBear

Good, just remember Gungnir is the spear of Odin while Ydrassil is the Tree of life.  Which would you rather listen to?


----------



## eschell27

audiobear said:


> Good, just remember Gungnir is the spear of Odin while Ydrassil is the Tree of life.  Which would you rather listen to?


 
  
 From everything i have read from people whose opinions i respect regarding comparisons between the Gumby and Yggy i think i will enjoy the Gumby's slightly warmer slightly euphonic tonality a little more. But i won't know until i get a chance to hear them both...for now i think i will be very happy moving to the Gumby from the dac-19.


----------



## vvar10ck

Now I'm listening Gumby with KGBH SE and custom Electrostatic headphones caleld Perun and I think it's time to move on Yggy = I feel some DAC restrictions in quality of my audio section...


----------



## musickid

Im getting a gumby soon to pair with my earmax pro tube amp. cant decide whether intona to usb, straight usb or ddc to coax is best. reports say coax with a good ddc is superior. can someone explain why this might be especially as asynchrous usb means gumby's clock is doing the timing controlling flow of data to computer rather than an external ddc clock? cant understand this. cheers mk does the fact that usb is not galvanically isolated matter if going straight usb from computer.


----------



## gwitzel

musickid said:


> Im getting a gumby soon to pair with my earmax pro tube amp. cant decide whether intona to usb, straight usb or ddc to coax is best. reports say coax with a good ddc is superior. can someone explain why this might be especially as asynchrous usb means gumby's clock is doing the timing controlling flow of data to computer rather than an external ddc clock? cant understand this. cheers mk does the fact that usb is not galvanically isolated matter if going straight usb from computer.


 
  
 I own Gumby + Earmax Pro, it is super nice! I can't explain why a ddc to coax is better, but I can confirm that I had much better results with combining a Schiit Wyrd with the Sinxer F-1 USB to coax converter into Gumby than with USB directly from my computer.


----------



## winders

musickid said:


> Im getting a gumby soon to pair with my earmax pro tube amp. cant decide whether intona to usb, straight usb or ddc to coax is best. reports say coax with a good ddc is superior. can someone explain why this might be especially as asynchrous usb means gumby's clock is doing the timing controlling flow of data to computer rather than an external ddc clock? cant understand this. cheers mk does the fact that usb is not galvanically isolated matter if going straight usb from computer.


 

 Because there is more to the USB signal than the voltage level that defines the 0s and 1s.
  
 https://uptoneaudio.com/pages/j-swenson-tech-corner


----------



## eschell27

Gumby arrived this morning, Was just shipped out Saturday...When USPS doesn't suck they are awesome!
  
 Anywho off the the races... 
  
 Gumby. Check
 DAC-19. Check
  
 SU-1 to feed them simultaneously? Check ( Gumby via BNC DAC-19 via i2s )
  
 Both dacs feeding C-2 11th AE with HD650 Kiss modded and WA2 (TS 5998/'75 Reflektor/RFT EZ80) with T1 gen 1.
  
 Now wait a few days for Gumby to warm up. (Doesn't sound bad cold out of the box.)
  
 WoooHoooo.
  
 Thanks to Sheldaze for selling me his black Gumby.


----------



## Aornic

Just received my Gungnir multibit this morning. It's been upgraded from a delta-sigma USB version 2 Gungnir.
  
 It's about 6 hours into warming up and I'm really enjoying the sound.
  
 However, there seems to be an issue with switching FLAC files of different bitrates. I use Foobar2000 and have WASAPI (event or push) set to the Schiit DAC as an output. When playing files of 16bit and 44.1khz, it sounds fine (and I do mean fine, this thing sounds great) but if I try to play a file of a higher bitrate - the muting relay clicks and then just stays muted.
  
 With my DS Gungnir, there were times when jumping from 16/44 to 24/192 or 24/96 would mute the audio until I switched back to 16/44 and then back to the higher bitrate - it would work eventually in the few cases that this happened. Now it just mutes and doesn't output audio from anything but 16/44. 
  
*Upon careful listening, I realized that I was hearing the songs playing but very faintly. I turned my amp dial to full and heard a distorted version of the song playing through my headphones, only audible at a volume setting that would otherwise be deafening if playing normally.*
  
 I'm connected via USB. Also, if I go to the Windows audio options and make my Gungnir's listing play as anything higher than 16/44, I get the same issue. 
  
 Has anyone encountered this problem before? I tried searching this thread for muting problems, but only came across some that involved CD transports. Once again, I'm using my computer > Wyrd > Gumby via USB.


----------



## cishida

aornic said:


> Just received my Gungnir multibit this morning. It's been upgraded from a delta-sigma USB version 2 Gungnir.
> 
> It's about 6 hours into warming up and I'm really enjoying the sound.
> 
> ...


 

 I've been using a gungnir MB for more than a year now and have never had a problem with sample rate changes.
 Edit: My audio chain is Macbook pro > Wyrd > Gumby.
  
 Have you tried power cycling the gungnir or cycling through the inputs?
  
 Do you have any other digital sources (say optical or coax) that will output > 44 KHz?


----------



## Aornic

cishida said:


> I've been using a gungnir MB for more than a year now and have never had a problem with sample rate changes.
> Edit: My audio chain is Macbook pro > Wyrd > Gumby.
> 
> Have you tried power cycling the gungnir or cycling through the inputs?
> ...


 
 I've tried both and the problem still exists. I also use a laptop so I only have USB available as a source. I've uninstalled and re-installed the Schiit drivers but it didn't help either.


----------



## Vigrith

eschell27 said:


> Thanks to Sheldaze for selling me his black Gumby.


 
  
 That looks so good in black. I can't help but wish Schiit just offered black chassis all the time every time I see one - that's the first Gungnir I've seen that isn't silver, if ever a black gumby + black MJ2 would become available I'd have to consider doing very bad things to get them.


----------



## cishida

aornic said:


> I've tried both and the problem still exists. I also use a laptop so I only have USB available as a source. I've uninstalled and re-installed the Schiit drivers but it didn't help either.


 
  
 I'm out of troubleshooting suggestions. The behavior you're seeing definitely does not seem right. I'd send email to info@schiit.com


----------



## eschell27

vigrith said:


> That looks so good in black. I can't help but wish Schiit just offered black chassis all the time every time I see one - that's the first Gungnir I've seen that isn't silver, if ever a black gumby + black MJ2 would become available I'd have to consider doing very bad things to get them.


 
  
  
 HaHa the guy a bought this from had black gumby and black mj2 at one point in time...there is a pic of it somewhere on this thread i think. They do look nice...funny enough i sort of wanted a silver one when this became available i had to jump on it!


----------



## Vigrith

eschell27 said:


> HaHa the guy a bought this from had black gumby and black mj2 at one point in time...there is a pic of it somewhere on this thread i think. They do look nice...funny enough i sort of wanted a silver one when this became available i had to jump on it!


 
  
 The MJ2 is my favourite amplifier all around probably, I don't even wanna see it in black because then it'd be a life long quest to get one (probably never happen as I'm in Europe and our distributors don't get black chassis units because they're so limited) - I can't even imagine. I'd match everything else, all of my electronics were in black before (computer case, WA7, Pathos Aurium, all my DACs, etc), ever since Schiit kinda took over my stuff I've tried to harmonise this black/silver duality as best I can haha.
  
 Glad you got the black gumby, that'd have been a shame to pass up even though you wanted the silver one!


----------



## musickid

i have an earmaxpro small tube amp with dt880 cans. my amp has no balanced option. if i buy a gumby multibit would i be neglecting its full potential by not having gear to extract balanced performance from gumby. its looking like an end game solution for me so upgrading to balanced cans and amp is not really an option. some say not much difference from SE to balanced and some seem to swear by balanced. cheers mk


----------



## winders

As I said in that other thread:
  
 You have no worries here. The single ended outputs are internally summed. They are just as good as the balanced outputs.


----------



## AudioBear

musickid said:


> i have an earmaxpro small tube amp with dt880 cans. my amp has no balanced option. if i buy a gumby multibit would i be neglecting its full potential by not having gear to extract balanced performance from gumby. its looking like an end game solution for me so upgrading to balanced cans and amp is not really an option. some say not much difference from SE to balanced and some seem to swear by balanced. cheers mk


 

 You'll be fine, especially since you know going into it you are not going to be able to spend more--nor should you,  Schiit delivers real value for the $ and Gumby is no exception single-ended or balanced.  If you want to enjoy the sound you'll be pleasantly surprised.  If you want to be a hardcore hobbyist and spend your time comparing and analyzing gear you will develop audiophile nervosa (like the rest of us).   You do not need balanced to build a great system.


----------



## gregzDk

What you can do is take the balanced out and buy a good converter to SE. But thats a huge overkill with the rest of the setup you have. I wouldn't start considering it before having spent 2-3k USD or more on amp and cans.


----------



## artur9

gregzdk said:


> What you can do is take the balanced out and buy a good converter to SE.


 
 Not being argumentative but curious.  
  
 What's the rationale when it comes with serviceable SE outputs?  You think an external device could do it better?  What would such a better device be/cost?


----------



## artur9

Would a Gumby feeding a mono block amp via balanced play louder than an UberFrost feeding the same amp via an RCA->XLR cable?  Be more dynamic-range-y because of the 4v vs 2v difference?  Offer blacker background?
  
 (Aside:  I have consistent hum problems in my system most easily solved using XLR everywhere.)


----------



## gregzDk

artur9 said:


> What's the rationale when it comes with serviceable SE outputs?  You think an external device could do it better?  What would such a better device be/cost?


 
 Serviceable ? Don't know exactly what you mean.
  
 Gungnir is fully balanced. The best you get is balanced out, as SE is internally summed. You COULD get better quality by using an external summing, but do not try to consider it with your setup, not worth it.
  
 Think of SE output as of (nearly, very nearly) as good as balanced.
  
 Look into Jensen Transformers's products, but just as a reference for the future, when you already have a HD800, Yggdrasil and top EC, Cavalli or DNA amp


----------



## Ableza

It is a persistent myth that balanced audio connections "sounds better" than SE connections.  The signal is the same.  Balanced enables noise cancellation but this is only meaningful in long cable runs, and balanced will be louder than SE at the same volume control setting due to level differences.  But the SQ of the signal is the same.  Perceived differences are just that: perceived.  They exist in the mind of the listener, not in the quality of the signal.


----------



## Baldr

ableza said:


> It is a persistent myth that balanced audio connections "sounds better" than SE connections.  The signal is the same.  Balanced enables noise cancellation but this is only meaningful in long cable runs, and balanced will be louder than SE at the same volume control setting due to level differences.  But the SQ of the signal is the same.  Perceived differences are just that: perceived.  They exist in the mind of the listener, not in the quality of the signal.


 

 Entirely agreed in an analog sense.  When evaluating digital systems, there exist a number of common mode high frequency trash that has everything to do with digital noise and spurious non-synchronous clocks all the way back up up the digital chain.  Doing a "hard way" balance (doubling up on DACs and analog) is a way to deal with (largely cancel) these artifacts.  Unfortunately, this is not a cost effective way of dealing with this problem.  All Schiit DACs are hard way balanced.  Many, probably most others are not.


----------



## Ableza

baldr said:


> Entirely agreed in an analog sense.  When evaluating digital systems, there exist a number of common mode high frequency trash that has everything to do with digital noise and spurious non-synchronous clocks all the way back up up the digital chain.  Doing a "hard way" balance (doubling up on DACs and analog) is a way to deal with (largely cancel) these artifacts.  Unfortunately, this is not a cost effective way of dealing with this problem.  All Schiit DACs are hard way balanced.  Many, probably most others are not.


 

 ​Thank you for this.  I am not nearly as familiar with digital system design as I am analog, so every time you offer bits of wisdom like this I pay attention and it's off to do more research.


----------



## AudioBear

That also explains why Schiit spends the extra $ for the duplicate parts.  I always wondered.  That is an expensive solution but it seems to work wonders.


----------



## danieldpagan

Same for their amps correct? Essentially schiit amps have dual amps inside of them for full balanced?


----------



## watchnerd

danieldpagan said:


> Same for their amps correct? Essentially schiit amps have dual amps inside of them for full balanced?


 
  
 Not all Schiit amps are fully balanced.


----------



## hanweifish

any suggestion for the balanced out?


----------



## watchnerd

hanweifish said:


> any suggestion for the balanced out?


 
  
 In terms of....?
  
 And are you referring to the pre-outs or headphone jack?


----------



## hanweifish

the cables from dac to amp~~Thanks.


----------



## cishida

hanweifish said:


> the cables from dac to amp~~Thanks.




The default answer on these forums is the schiit pyst interconnect. They appear to be quality interconnects manufactured by straightwire.

Personally I use and can recommend audioquest interconnects.


----------



## hanweifish

Thanks for your recommendation. You mean the AudioQuest Mackenzie Audio Interconnects with Balanced XLR, right?


----------



## cishida

I'm using the king cobra and columbia XLRs. They are out of production but are still be available with a significant discount from music direct:
 https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/audioquest-king-cobra-interconnects-pr
 https://www.musicdirect.com/equipment/audioquest-columbia-interconnects-pr
  
 It looks like the analog for the king cobra's in the current lineup are the yukon XLR (PSC+ PE air tube). I'm not sure there is an analog for the columbia.
  
 I'm sure the mackenzies would be fine, though I haven't tried them in my system.


----------



## hanweifish

Seems like the price is similar...
 http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AQYUKON&opt=1097|1110|1113
  
 Which one you recommend more? king cobra or yukon?
 Thanks.


----------



## cishida

hanweifish said:


> Seems like the price is similar...
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AQYUKON&opt=1097|1110|1113
> 
> Which one you recommend more? king cobra or yukon?
> Thanks.




The 0.5m xlr king cobras are about $100 at music direct. The 0.5m xlr yukons are $275. I'd buy the king cobras.

Edit: I originally mistakenly wrote mackenzies - I meant yukons.


----------



## hanweifish

Ha, Thanks. Definitely I will have a try King Cobra~


----------



## hanweifish

Sorry, one more question....where can get the used gungnir multibi.....The forums does not have this one for sell/trade for a while... There is also no luck in ebay and local craigslist...


----------



## US Blues

hanweifish said:


> Sorry, one more question....where can get the used gungnir multibi.....The forums does not have this one for sell/trade for a while... There is also no luck in ebay and local craigslist...


 

 Here you go: http://schiit.com/products/gungnir


----------



## hanweifish

us blues said:


> Here you go: http://schiit.com/products/gungnir


 
 Thanks....But I prefer the used one...


----------



## cishida

hanweifish said:


> Thanks....But I prefer the used one...


 
 Ebay, amazon, audiogon are the only places I know of. Unfortunately, gungnir's don't come up for sale all that often - you may see one tomorrow or you could be waiting for weeks, impossible to say.
  
 I think some buy through head-fi. Maybe someone following this forum will want to sell.


----------



## jcn3

hanweifish said:


> Thanks....But I prefer the used one...


 
  
  


cishida said:


> Ebay, amazon, audiogon are the only places I know of. Unfortunately, gungnir's don't come up for sale all that often - you may see one tomorrow or you could be waiting for weeks, impossible to say.
> 
> I think some buy through head-fi. Maybe someone following this forum will want to sell.


 
  
 you can add www.computeraudiophile.com to the list, too.  low volume of listings, though.


----------



## hanweifish

jcn3 said:


> you can add www.computeraudiophile.com to the list, too.  low volume of listings, though.


 
 I see. Thanks.


----------



## BillOhio

I actually bought a used Gumby this morning, and Mjo2 also from the buy/sell forum here on Headfi. I guess I'm living dangerously as I won't have a warranty. Are there many reports of Schiit products conking out after they've been used for a few months?
  
 Also, are you guys using any special connections to your PCs? I'm seeing some people suggest upgrading the sound card to something like a RME Hammerfall DSP 9632?


----------



## AudioBear

Schiit has a very generous warranty policy which means they think their gear will last a long time.  As a small company they can't afford to have high failure and repair rates so they build and test them very well.  Pre-shipping burn-ins probably catch a good percentage of the problem items.
  
 They are also very easy to do business with and very pro-customer.  I have no experience with this but I'd bet that if you have a problem with Schiit equipment they will fix it for a fair price.
  
 Anybody here ever had anything out of warranty repaired by Schiit?


----------



## BillOhio

Thank You for the reassurance AudioBear. I have a perfectly functional 33 year old Yamaha receiver on my desk at the moment. If Schiit builds their gear as well today as Yamaha did 30 years ago then I imagine I'll get my money's worth.


----------



## SLC1966

I often listen to my Headphones and then when I get up and do something in the house I turn down the volume to HPs and I turn up the volume for the speakers. So I have Gungnir MB>Asgard 2>LCD 3 and at the same time I have Gungnir MB>pre amp>amp>speakers.  I just turn down the volume to one of them while listening to the other and visa versa.  
  
 I am not hearing any degradation of sound. Should there be?  I am wondering how Gumby internally goes two places at the same time (other than the obvious of the 2 Gumby SE Outs) and are there any negative side effects of doing this?


----------



## orkney

^^^
  
 Shouldn't be a problem. Nothing in the Gumby literature I've seen suggests it can't feed two amps simultaneously.


----------



## AudioBear

Feeding two amps doesn't take a lot of power since the voltages are low and the input impedance of amps is relatively high.  I have run two amps with Gumby without any apparent problem.


----------



## BillOhio

So I'd be able to run XLR from Gumby to Mjo2, as well as RCA to the receiver that my passive bookshelves are running out of? I'm assuming I can. I'd like to be able to turn the speakers on and off via the power button on the receiver.
  
 Also, I'm about to wade in to the conversation of how best to connect a desktop PC to the Gumby. I have an RME 9632 sound card on order and will keep looking through threads on how best to go from there with break out cables and such. As near as I can tell it doesn't look like there's a way on the Gumby, unlike the Yggy, to send a balanced signal in from the PC... and I'm not gonna start thinking about upgrading the Gumby that hasn't even arrived yet.
  
 Cheers


----------



## AudioBear

billohio said:


> So I'd be able to run XLR from Gumby to Mjo2, as well as RCA to the receiver that my passive bookshelves are running out of? I'm assuming I can. I'd like to be able to turn the speakers on and off via the power button on the receiver.
> ...
> 
> Cheers


 
 I've done it but don't take my word for it.  Call or e-mail Schiit and confirm with them.  They designed it and they built it so they ought to know best.  They are generally very helpful and quick to respond.


----------



## Ableza

I currently have my Gungnir MB connected to my Mjolnir 2 via XLR and to my office stereo integrated amplifier using RCA.  No issues.


----------



## Rowethren

I use a Y XLR cable and use XLR to my Mjolnir 2 and Rotel RA-1570 no problems


----------



## frederickwild

Hey all - do you guys know how much electricity the Gungnir MB uses? Am trying to cut down on my carbon footprint and am trying to estimate the cost of leaving it on 24/7. Thanks


----------



## Mediahound

frederickwild said:


> Hey all - do you guys know how much electricity the Gungnir MB uses? Am trying to cut down on my carbon footprint and am trying to estimate the cost of leaving it on 24/7. Thanks


 

 Approximately 20 watts. Versus Yggy's 40 watts, btw.


----------



## frederickwild

mediahound said:


> Approximately 20 watts. Versus Yggy's 40 watts, btw.


 
 Much obliged!!


----------



## watchnerd

It seems more and more DACs are offering user-selectable filters.  I see this option in DACs ranging from the inexpensive TEAC UD-301, to the Auralic series, and even the custom FPGA-based DACs from the likes of PS Audio.
  
 Among those options is often a 'no filter' option, essentially turning the DAC into a NOS DAC, to be used in conjunction with off-board up-sampling by something like HQ Player.
  
 Gungnir seems about due for a refresh (the DS version still uses older AKM chips) and I'm curious what features others would want in a revised Gungnir.


----------



## Rowethren

watchnerd said:


> It seems more and more DACs are offering user-selectable filters.  I see this option in DACs ranging from the inexpensive TEAC UD-301, to the Auralic series, and even the custom FPGA-based DACs from the likes of PS Audio.
> 
> Among those options is often a 'no filter' option, essentially turning the DAC into a NOS DAC, to be used in conjunction with off-board up-sampling by something like HQ Player.
> 
> Gungnir seems about due for a refresh (the DS version still uses older AKM chips) and I'm curious what features others would want in a revised Gungnir.


 
  
 I would be very surprised if they ever changed anything that major because the whole premise behind Schiits DACs (other than the Modi) is to have things upgradeable so you don't get technological obsolescence. Adding something like a filter switch when there is only 1 button seems a bit of a stretch; I guess they could do something like hold the button to change the filter but personally I can't really see them ever doing anything like that.
  
 Also why would you want to go NOS when you can use the mega combo burrito anyway... Seems like that would be missing the point of the current upgrade trends.


----------



## Baldr

watchnerd said:


> It seems more and more DACs are offering user-selectable filters.  I see this option in DACs ranging from the inexpensive TEAC UD-301, to the Auralic series, and even the custom FPGA-based DACs from the likes of PS Audio.
> 
> Among those options is often a 'no filter' option, essentially turning the DAC into a NOS DAC, to be used in conjunction with off-board up-sampling by something like HQ Player.
> 
> Gungnir seems about due for a refresh (the DS version still uses older AKM chips) and I'm curious what features others would want in a revised Gungnir.


 

 The Gungnir MB is newer than the Yggy and the ds version would only be replaced with whatever ds DAC hurts the least by the time we run out of the 4399 boards.  At that price level, demand is for multibit.  Also in the context of ds noise, there is really very little audible difference between 4399 - 4490.    The 4490's extra filters are little more than audio masturbation.  I cannot fathom any reason to use them other than auto stimulation.


----------



## watchnerd

rowethren said:


> I would be very surprised if they ever changed anything that major because the whole premise behind Schiits DACs (other than the Modi) is to have things upgradeable so you don't get technological obsolescence. Adding something like a filter switch when there is only 1 button seems a bit of a stretch; I guess they could do something like hold the button to change the filter but personally I can't really see them ever doing anything like that.
> 
> Also why would you want to go NOS when you can use the mega combo burrito anyway... Seems like that would be missing the point of the current upgrade trends.


 
  
 I think the guys who use off-board filtering (note: I'm not one of them) believe that there is a wider range of filter choices to play with if one separates the filter from the DAC chip itself.
  
 I'm not advocating for this approach, but it does seem to be trending, at least at sites like CA.


----------



## gevorg

watchnerd said:


> It seems more and more DACs are offering user-selectable filters.  I see this option in DACs ranging from the inexpensive TEAC UD-301, to the Auralic series, and even the custom FPGA-based DACs from the likes of PS Audio.
> 
> Among those options is often a 'no filter' option, essentially turning the DAC into a NOS DAC, to be used in conjunction with off-board up-sampling by something like HQ Player.
> 
> Gungnir seems about due for a refresh (the DS version still uses older AKM chips) and I'm curious what features others would want in a revised Gungnir.






watchnerd said:


> rowethren said:
> 
> 
> > I would be very surprised if they ever changed anything that major because the whole premise behind Schiits DACs (other than the Modi) is to have things upgradeable so you don't get technological obsolescence. Adding something like a filter switch when there is only 1 button seems a bit of a stretch; I guess they could do something like hold the button to change the filter but personally I can't really see them ever doing anything like that.
> ...




Some of us use DSPs and EQs that resample to a higher sample rate, so might as well keep it at "NOS" and not resample it again with the DAC's internal filter. Maybe a future Gungnir can have a NOS mode like Biforst at a max sample rate? This probably won't make much of a difference, given how good Gungnir's internal filter is. The user interface and dozens of filter choices of CA's favorite HQPlayer is insane and takes the joy out of music listening. Anyway, what Gungnir really needs is a better USB input. C-Media that Schiit is using in their products is pretty mediocre and unstable relatively to other USB DACs. Although Regen works great with Schiit, I would rather not have to deal with third party USB devices. Whatever Regen or a similar device is doing, should be done inside the DAC.


----------



## Baldr

gevorg said:


> Some of us use DSPs and EQs that resample to a higher sample rate, so might as well keep it at "NOS" and not resample it again with the DAC's internal filter. Maybe a future Gungnir can have a NOS mode like Biforst at a max sample rate? This probably won't make much of a difference, given how good Gungnir's internal filter is. The user interface and dozens of filter choices of CA's favorite HQPlayer is insane and takes the joy out of music listening. Anyway, what Gungnir really needs is a better USB input. C-Media that Schiit is using in their products is pretty mediocre and unstable relatively to other USB DACs. Although Regen works great with Schiit, I would rather not have to deal with third party USB devices. Whatever Regen or a similar device is doing, should be done inside the DAC.


 

 Gungnir and Yggy pass original samples through at 8 over.  Bifrost passes original samples through at 4 over.


----------



## winders

baldr said:


> Gungnir and Yggy pass original samples through at 8 over.  Bifrost passes original samples through at 4 over.


 

 How do you get 8 over samples into Yggy or Gumby? As best as I can see, the max I can get into Gumby or Yggy is 24/192. So it seems no matter what we get at least one 2x upsample, right?


----------



## winders

By the way, those folks over at Computer Audiophile are real high on NOS DACs and letting software in the computer do any upsampling. It's like a religion to them.


----------



## Baldr

winders said:


> How do you get 8 over samples into Yggy or Gumby? As best as I can see, the max I can get into Gumby or Yggy is 24/192. So it seems no matter what we get at least one 2x upsample, right?


 
 8 over means 8 x 44.1 or 48KHz sample rate.  4 over means 4 x 44.1 or 48KHz sample rate.  Engineering gab.


----------



## winders

baldr said:


> 8 over means 8 x 44.1 or 48KHz sample rate.  4 over means 4 x 44.1 or 48KHz sample rate.  Engineering gab.


 

 Got it.
  
 8 x 44.1 = 352.8
 8 x 48 = 384
  
 So, if the most I can feed into Yggy before it upsamples is 192, doesn't that means there will be at least one 2x upsample in Yggy or Gumby.
  
 Kick me if I am being dense here.....


----------



## cishida

winders said:


> Got it.
> 
> 8 x 44.1 = 352.8
> 8 x 48 = 384
> ...




Yes, that is my understanding.


----------



## BillOhio

My Gumby/Mjo2 came in tonight. It sounds 'nice'. I'm currently listening through balanced connection Beyer T5p2s, 6922 tubes, usb printer cable, and Flacs via Windows Media Player. I have an RME 9632 soundcard and SPDIF connections on order and I guess switching away from Windows Media Player is advised. Also, I ought to be listening via Ether Flows before long.
  
 Will Keep Tinkering,
 -Bill


----------



## winders

billohio said:


> My Gumby/Mjo2 came in tonight. It sounds 'nice'. I'm currently listening through balanced connection Beyer T5p2s, 6922 tubes, usb printer cable, and Flacs via Windows Media Player. I have an RME 9632 soundcard and SPDIF connections on order and I guess switching away from Windows Media Player is advised. Also, I ought to be listening via Ether Flows before long.
> 
> Will Keep Tinkering,
> -Bill


 

 Big changes!!!


----------



## hanweifish

billohio said:


> My Gumby/Mjo2 came in tonight. It sounds 'nice'. I'm currently listening through balanced connection Beyer T5p2s, 6922 tubes, usb printer cable, and Flacs via Windows Media Player. I have an RME 9632 soundcard and SPDIF connections on order and I guess switching away from Windows Media Player is advised. Also, I ought to be listening via Ether Flows before long.
> 
> Will Keep Tinkering,
> -Bill


 
 Nice. Where do you buy the Gumby?


----------



## BillOhio

hanweifish said:


> Nice. Where do you buy the Gumby?


 
  
 I bought it from the 'For Sale' forum here on Head-Fi. It's in mint shape.
  
 Someone suggested I give the Gumby 48 hours to warm up and to try JRiver for bit perfect output, so I'll make that switch in a bit.


----------



## winders

billohio said:


> I bought it from the 'For Sale' forum here on Head-Fi. It's in mint shape.
> 
> Someone suggested I give the Gumby 48 hours to warm up and to try JRiver for bit perfect output, so I'll make that switch in a bit.


 

 Yes, you want Gumby's components to temperature stabilize so they operate as intended. I would recommend using bit perfect software that will allow you set it up so all source material is sent to Gumby in its native format. For example, you would want Red Book (16/44.1) content sent to Gumby at 16/44.1. Gumby has awesome upsampling filters built in.


----------



## hanweifish

billohio said:


> I bought it from the 'For Sale' forum here on Head-Fi. It's in mint shape.
> 
> Someone suggested I give the Gumby 48 hours to warm up and to try JRiver for bit perfect output, so I'll make that switch in a bit.


 
 So lucky...I am still waiting for someone to sell it.......Last time I just missed the black one.....


----------



## hanweifish

winders said:


> Yes, you want Gumby's components to temperature stabilize so they operate as intended. I would recommend using bit perfect software that will allow you set it up so all source material is sent to Gumby in its native format. For example, you would want Red Book (16/44.1) content sent to Gumby at 16/44.1. Gumby has awesome upsampling filters built in.


 
 The 48 hours to warm up is for every time? Which means just keep Gumby on all the time? Sorry, I am quite new here...


----------



## Rowethren

hanweifish said:


> The 48 hours to warm up is for every time? Which means just keep Gumby on all the time? Sorry, I am quite new here...




Leaving it on has been recommended by Schiit.


----------



## winders

hanweifish said:


> The 48 hours to warm up is for every time? Which means just keep Gumby on all the time? Sorry, I am quite new here...


 

 Yep. My Yggy stays on all the time.


----------



## BillOhio

hanweifish said:


> So lucky...I am still waiting for someone to sell it.......Last time I just missed the black one.....


 
  
 I replied to the sellers add within about 5 minutes of it having been posted, very early in the morning (Eastern Standard Time). The Mjo 2 wasn't listed in the add but it came up in correspondence and we ended up adding it to the order. All together , I probably saved about $400Cad/$300US vs buying direct from Schiit. I got an extra pair of tubes also, but don't have warranty. My unit is silver, which looks fantastic to my minimalist tastes.


----------



## hanweifish

billohio said:


> I replied to the sellers add within about 5 minutes of it having been posted, very early in the morning (Eastern Standard Time). The Mjo 2 wasn't listed in the add but it came up in correspondence and we ended up adding it to the order. All together , I probably saved about $400Cad/$300US vs buying direct from Schiit. I got an extra pair of tubes also, but don't have warranty. My unit is silver, which looks fantastic to my minimalist tastes.


 
 So crazy.....May be I should buy the new one from Schiit....


----------



## BillOhio

hanweifish said:


> So crazy.....May be I should buy the new one from Schiit....


 
  
 I doubt that anyone is selling these at steep discounts. They seem to be in high demand, even on the used market. I might not have bought used but the seller here had over 90 positive feedbacks so I felt pretty comfortable and the stuff showed up without any issues.


----------



## orkney

hanweifish said:


> So lucky...I am still waiting for someone to sell it.......Last time I just missed the black one.....


 

 They're certainly thin on the ground these days. You might look for a DS model and then have it upgraded to MB -- although even those models go fast.
  
 I think the Gumby is the high-performance sweet spot in Schiit's lineup, and one of the best DAC values around atm. It provides most of the Yggy's resolution, dynamics and presentation of recorded space and is quite bit easier to integrate into a lot of systems, IMO, including some very high-end ones. Well worth waiting for,


----------



## lenroot77

If anyone is looking to sell their Gungnir please feel free to pm me. I'd prefer a Gumby, but would consider a DS version for the right price.

Thanks!


----------



## hanweifish

Here the same...I am looking for a Gumby for a while.....please pm. Thanks.


----------



## bearwarrior

Has anyone tried Denafrips ARES? Will R2R ladder DAC be better than Schiit R2R multibit?


----------



## watchnerd

bearwarrior said:


> Has anyone tried Denafrips ARES? Will R2R ladder DAC be better than Schiit R2R multibit?


 
  
 I have no hands-on experience with that DAC, but...
  
 1. It claims "Proprietary R2R + DSD Architecture".
  
 Wait..wut?
  
 Are they operating as two separate parallel paths depending on input? Or is it some weird hybrid?
  
 It sounds more like a weird hybrid:
  
 "Ares employees 20BIT  R2R +  6BIT DSD (32 steps FIR Filters), native PCM & DSD"
  
 That's sort of the inverse of a modern DS DAC, which has a few bits running as multi-bit and the rest as DS.
  
 2. If you really want DSD, the Ares goes up to 4X, but the Oppo Sonica does 8X. So even as a DSD DAC, it's not SOTA.
  
 3. I don't see anything written about filters for the R2R portion and I can't see a SHARC chip in the photos, so I have no idea what, if anything, it's doing for filters. Maybe it's filter-less? This is in contrast to the Schiit products where the filter is cornerstone.


----------



## bearwarrior

watchnerd said:


> I have no hands-on experience with that DAC, but...
> 
> 1. It claims "Proprietary R2R + DSD Architecture".
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the explanation. Please correct me if I am wrong. I think the 32 steps FIR filters also apply to the R2R. It kind of does not make sense that a DAC apply no filters. For me, most of my music source is CD format. So I would not care too much about DSD. Now, I am just looking for a good full balanced DAC to give more details.


----------



## Ableza

bearwarrior said:


> Now, I am just looking for a good full balanced DAC to give more details.


 
 Yggdrasil


----------



## bearwarrior

ableza said:


> Yggdrasil


 
  
 Haha. My bank will hate me more. I guess Yggy equals the very end-game.


----------



## watchnerd

bearwarrior said:


> Thanks for the explanation. Please correct me if I am wrong. I think the 32 steps FIR filters also apply to the R2R. It kind of does not make sense that a DAC apply no filters. For me, most of my music source is CD format. So I would not care too much about DSD. Now, I am just looking for a good full balanced DAC to give more details.


 
  
 1. I agree filter-less DACs don't necessarily make sense, but they do exist.
  
 2. Lots of fully balanced DACs -- Gungnir, Yggdrasil, TEAC reference series and Oppo Sonica if you want DSD


----------



## Mr Pluto

Sorry I have no time to read all the 279 pages.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It seems that Schiit has gained a lot of interest and debates here
 Can someone please make a short summary of what dac`s/digital playes have it or the Yggdrasil outperformed?


----------



## winders

You are going to have read the threads like anyone else would......there are no simple answers or summaries.


----------



## Mr Pluto

Mnay thanks Winders!
 If none can put a few words in a row, then I better buy the damn Schiit? Or maybe pass it....


----------



## Ableza

My simple answer is to do what I did.  Buy them and decide for yourself.  My results were that the only DACs left in my systems are Gungnir MB and Yggdrasil, replacing units from Wavelength, Ayre and Kora.  Your results may vary.


----------



## Mr Pluto

Thanks Watchnerd!
  
 Ableza,
  
 May I ask what Kora and Ayre dac you had?
 I know Kora Hermes and Ayre QB-9. They are quite different.


----------



## Ableza

mr pluto said:


> Thanks Watchnerd!
> 
> Ableza,
> 
> ...


 

 ​Oh they are indeed.  I used a Kora Hermes II in my dedicated 2-channel system for years until the Yggdrasil came along, and I had the QB-9 in my home theater connected to a music player for more casual listening.  It's also now replaced by a Yggdrasil.  The Gungnir MB replaced a Wavelength Crimson I was using in my office for my headphone rig.


----------



## Mr Pluto

Thanks Ableza,
  
 Seems you liked the Yggdrasil most. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 May I ask? Kora being on the warmer side and Ayre more on the detailed side. What side of the spectrum the Yggdrasil stands more? I would be most happy if you care to put a couple words about compared sonics also.


----------



## Ableza

Yggdrasil was the most natural sounding of any of them.  Gungnir MB is very close.
  
 Oh, I almost forgot: IMO, YMMV, To Each His Own, "at least in my system" and of course "I could be wrong."


----------



## artur9

mr pluto said:


> Sorry I have no time to read all the 279 pages.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Read this entire thread to get an idea: Life after Yggdrasil?


----------



## kayhikski

This concerns USB vs Coax Inputs on the Gungnir:
  
 I recently upgraded a Bifrost DS + Asgard 2 + AKG 712 Pro rig to Gungnir MB + Mjolnir 2 + Audeze LCD-3
  
 Source is USB from an iMac running JRiver Media Center and via a Wyrd decrapifier.
  
 I let the system break in for 100 hours or so with the LISST tubes and began serious listening. The new rig was obviously a definite upgrade from the Bifrost rig in every way. 
  
 I swapped in the 6B7Z tubes ..... even better, but still not blowing me away.
  
 On Friday after work I replaced the Wyrd with a Bryston BUC-1 and am now using the digital coaxial input on the Gungnir MB.
  
 I noticed immediately that clarity and soundstage were both improved with the BUC-1. The sound was now so engaging that I spent the entire weekend sneaking upstairs to listen all weekend every chance I got. My wife is getting suspicious.
  
 I am still happy with the Wyrd on my Bifrost rig (now in use at work) but imo it was holding the Gungnir rig back.
  
 I plan to try the BNC input to the Gungnir MB after acquiring a cable and also to begin tube rolling.


----------



## BillOhio

I just realized I have an optical out from my PC's motherboard, as well as a cable, so I'm listening to the Gumby/Mjo2 now via Optical and it doesn't sound any different to me than USB. I do have an RME 9632 Soundcard that I had planned on running SPDIF cable out via a breakout cable. I hope that this sound card improves the sound quality or serves a purpose... not sure what to expect on that.


----------



## Ableza

billohio said:


> I just realized I have an optical out from my PC's motherboard, as well as a cable, so I'm listening to the Gumby/Mjo2 now via Optical and it doesn't sound any different to me than USB.


 
 There you go... use whatever is most convenient.


----------



## BillOhio

ableza said:


> There you go... use whatever is most convenient.


 
  
 I'm about to install this Soundcard that I spent a few hundred bucks on. Until I get it up and running with drivers situated, I won't know if I wasted money.


----------



## Ableza

billohio said:


> I'm about to install this Soundcard that I spent a few hundred bucks on. Until I get it up and running with drivers situated, I won't know if I wasted money.


 

 ​Aren't most soundcards DACs or digital format transcoders?  Meaning,  a digital signal is unlikely to be "better" that what's right off the motherboard.


----------



## BillOhio

ableza said:


> ​Aren't most soundcards DACs or digital format transcoders?  Meaning,  a digital signal is unlikely to be "better" that what's right off the motherboard.


 
 I'm to much of a noob to know. I have this thing plugged in and drivers downloaded but I'll be darned if I can get any sound of it. It's pretty fancy, so I'm wading through the manual to try and figure out the menus and settings...


----------



## Ableza

billohio said:


> I'm to much of a noob to know. I have this thing plugged in and drivers downloaded but I'll be darned if I can get any sound of it. It's pretty fancy, so I'm wading through the manual to try and figure out the menus and settings...


 

 What is it?


----------



## BillOhio

ableza said:


> What is it?


 
 https://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/hdsp_9632.php


----------



## Ableza

billohio said:


> https://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/hdsp_9632.php


 

 ​Since your PC has S/PDIF output already, and you will not need the D/A conversion since you need digital out to your Schiit, the only thing you might gain from this is if you need audio-in for recording on your PC, and MIDI if you use that.  In my opinion, of course.


----------



## BillOhio

I was under the impression that the more money I spent on stuff mentioned on forums, the better the music would sound from my headphones...
  
 There are optional breakout cables that will let you send a balanced signal via XLR if you're using the Yggy... not sure what the benefit is for Gumby at this point, especially as I can't find the software on my pc to open up the user interface and try to configure this thing.


----------



## Ableza

billohio said:


> I was under the impression that the more money I spent on stuff mentioned on forums, the better the music would sound from my headphones...
> 
> There are optional breakout cables that will let you send a balanced signal via XLR if you're using the Yggy... not sure what the benefit is for Gumby at this point, especially as I can't find the software on my pc to open up the user interface and try to configure this thing.


 

 ​Spending more money does not equal better.  And the "balanced" signal from that sound card will be analog.  You cannot connect an analog signal to a Schiit DAC.  The DAC is what converts the digital signal INTO analog.


----------



## US Blues

billohio said:


> I was under the impression that the more money I spent on stuff mentioned on forums, the better the music would sound from my headphones...


 
  
 That is truly funny!


----------



## eschell27

There have been a lot of people using these RME and Lynx cards in order to bypass usb in their source chains with great success in getting better quality digital output to their dacs.
  
 Worth looking into though if one is looking into a DDC or Rednet solution. Price wise they fall in the middle of the cheaper Singxer DDC's and a Rednet or Mutec and are believed to be top notch by some people whose opinions i highly respect on such matters. Here is a link to a head-fi'er who tried out a bunch of these devices and wrote up a nice little shoot out comparison.
  
http://www.basshead.club/spdif-battle-mutec-singxer-lynx-rednet-et-al/


----------



## SLC1966

kayhikski said:


> This concerns USB vs Coax Inputs on the Gungnir:
> 
> I recently upgraded a Bifrost DS + Asgard 2 + AKG 712 Pro rig to Gungnir MB + Mjolnir 2 + Audeze LCD-3
> 
> ...





I also notice better clarity and soundsrage with Gumby using BNC via Audiophilleo vs USB connection.


----------



## hanweifish

slc1966 said:


> I also notice better clarity and soundsrage with Gumby using BNC via Audiophilleo vs USB connection.


 
 How about the optical directly from mac?


----------



## SLC1966

hanweifish said:


> How about the optical directly from mac?




I personally have not yet used optical.


----------



## RCBinTN

hanweifish said:


> How about the optical directly from mac?


 
  
 I've used both USB and optical connections between my MacPro and GMB, with nothing in-between.  Both cables are high-end (check my profile for details).  I found the USB to provide nice, smooth SQ, but the connection isn't reliable and the music drops (the server on the Mac is JRMC22).  Switched to the optical and am much happier.  The SQ is at least as good (maybe better) and it's more reliable - no more music drops.  I've settled on the optical for now.
  
 BTW, my SQ was greatly improved by upgrading the cables.  I will never go back to using low-end cables.  YMMV.
  
 Hope this helps,
 RCB


----------



## hanweifish

rcbintn said:


> I've used both USB and optical connections between my MacPro and GMB, with nothing in-between.  Both cables are high-end (check my profile for details).  I found the USB to provide nice, smooth SQ, but the connection isn't reliable and the music drops (the server on the Mac is JRMC22).  Switched to the optical and am much happier.  The SQ is at least as good (maybe better) and it's more reliable - no more music drops.  I've settled on the optical for now.
> 
> BTW, my SQ was greatly improved by upgrading the cables.  I will never go back to using low-end cables.  YMMV.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks. Just curious, which cables you updated?


----------



## RCBinTN

hanweifish said:


> Thanks. Just curious, which cables you updated?


 
  
 The most recent upgrades were:
  - Analog interconnects (between the DAC and amp) - upgraded from Wywires blue to platinum
  - Optical - upgraded from Audioquest cinnamon to diamond (a huge difference)
  - USB - hadn't been using it, but purchased a Wywires platinum
  
 I already had upgraded the HP cables.  The ones listed above were the recent additions.
  
 Hope this helps,
 RCB


----------



## hanweifish

rcbintn said:


> The most recent upgrades were:
> - Analog interconnects (between the DAC and amp) - upgraded from Wywires blue to platinum
> - Optical - upgraded from Audioquest cinnamon to diamond (a huge difference)
> - USB - hadn't been using it, but purchased a Wywires platinum
> ...


 
 for the optical update, so surprised, is digital quality really matter from the cable?


----------



## Exidrion

Nope.


----------



## winders

hanweifish said:


> for the optical update, so surprised, is digital quality really matter from the cable?


 
  


exidrion said:


> Nope.


 
  
 Of course it does. Especially with an optical cable. There is plastic, multi-strand plastic, glass, multi-strand glass.....


----------



## RCBinTN

winders said:


> Of course it does. Especially with an optical cable. There is plastic, multi-strand plastic, glass, multi-strand glass.....


 
  
 You know, I can't explain why, but to me the AQ Diamond sounds much better than the AQ Cinnamon cable.  There is info on the AQ website about how it works, as @winders posted, different materials of construction, etc.  I think the main goal is to reduce errors introduced by the cable when transferring the optical signal.  What I decided, since I'd just dropped $500 on a USB cable, was to match that with the best optical cable I could find.  And, believe me, it's not easy to find AQ Diamond toslink cables.  They appear to be kinda scarce.
  
 Perhaps @Baldr or others familiar with optical signal transport can weigh in?
  
 Anyway, I'm happy w/ the SQ; in the end, that's what matters.
  
 Enjoy your music!
 RCBinTN


----------



## Charente

My first post to this thread but first a disclaimer: I am not an Electronic or Audio Engineer. To be honest, some of the discussions are way over my head. I am a music lover and a non-pro musician. I know what I'm looking for and what sounds musically good to me. The road to achieving that has been somewhat confusing but that's where forums like Head-Fi are invaluable.
  
 I recently took delivery of a Gungnir MultiBit (Gumby), after following the impressions posted on this thread and others over the last few months. Following a few days of 'burn-in' I agree with many of the views expressed about musical sound quality of the Gumby. Notably...Detailed, smooth, clear instrument separation, attack/weight and the lovely lingering decay and echoes. An overall very musical presentation. I'll add my own personal perspective.... I am a bass-guitar player and like to follow bass-lines. The Gumby exposes these very well...not just the rhythm but equally important are the chord-tone harmonies which are clearly defined.
  
 The Gumby is the final pice of the jigsaw for me. I started this journey about a year ago, copying my CD library to FLAC on a NAS. A relatively inexpensive DAC/AMP (Aune X1s) connected to a MAC with Audirvana got me started. Next, the source was the most important element to get right, and I finally settled on the Sonore microRendu. There are other approaches to this but I find this tiny Unix-based audio quality computer gives me a clean signal and great flexibility in playback. I can even use it without switching on a MAC or PC and play straight from the NAS, using the phone as a remote control from the comfort of an armchair, rather than sitting in front of a computer. The LYR 2 was the next item and for me an obvious quality/value for money choice. Finally, the Gumby, the most expensive item in my setup and quite a leap from the Aune I started with. The musical quality is impressive which I had previously thought I could not aspire to without spending many more $. I have arrived at a point on the journey which is likely to satisfy me for some time, barring the occasional upgrade to the Gumby itself, if it makes sense.
  
 I am amazed at the quality that resides on 16/44.1 and that the Gumby presents in an effortless way. I can see that I will now focus my efforts in buying more CD's to copy to FLAC and there are plenty still to choose from, even second-hand at low prices. What a great opportunity. I have some 'hi-res' music but do question their provenance. For me, the best source is highresaudio.com who appear to be quite diligent in providing a quality product. The links at the bottom of their website offer interesting background.
  
 In conclusion, thank-you to Schiit and to members of Head-Fi in helping me with my journey.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

I just started looking over this thread but have people tried the Gumby with Jotunheim and what were the results? I just recently bought a Modi multibit and planning on buying a mojo to use as a DAC. I'm new and trying a few things out to get an idea of what I like. right now using PC- Modi MB- jot- th900.
  
 I really like it but I don't have a hi fi shop anywhere close by so have to go off forums to get ideas on good combos etc.
  
 I like edm, rap, rock... lots of bass


----------



## jcn3

averageguync said:


> I just started looking over this thread but have people tried the Gumby with Jotunheim and what were the results? I just recently bought a Modi multibit and planning on buying a mojo to use as a DAC. I'm new and trying a few things out to get an idea of what I like. right now using PC- Modi MB- jot- th900.
> 
> I really like it but I don't have a hi fi shop anywhere close by so have to go off forums to get ideas on good combos etc.
> 
> I like edm, rap, rock... lots of bass


 
  
 should be a good combo -- gumby is a great dac with balanced out; jotunheim has balanced in and can handle single ended or balanced headphone connects.  you should get great, accurate sound -- so if your music has bass, the combo will send it through.
  
 since you've already got the mimby, don't think you'll see a night and day difference vs gumby.  gumby will be more articulate, but you won't get "more" bass than what you're getting now.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

I'm looking for better resolution and detail and that kinda stuff if possible?


----------



## jcn3

averageguync said:


> I'm looking for better resolution and detail and that kinda stuff if possible?


 
  
 the jotunheim/mimby combo should sound quite good.  i would think to get materially better you'd need to go to the gumby/mjolnir 2 combo.
  
 i'd also think about system matching -- are your headphones a good match with the jotunheim?  you've spent a good amount on them, but is the combo synergistic?
  
 sounds like you need to optimize the amp/headphone combo.  wouldn't worry about the dac until you're sure you've got that sorted out.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

Well at first I thought there wasn't enough bass but I downloaded an EQ and now I love it! I used the built in dac for a couple weeks and the Modi Multibit added a little better clarity/detail to it. If this is just mid- fi, I would love to hear a really great set up. But I know it can get at least somewhat better and curious if there are reasonably cost items I can do. Maybe someday add a yggy or whatever but not right now.


----------



## XenHeadFi

billohio said:


> I'm to much of a noob to know. I have this thing plugged in and drivers downloaded but I'll be darned if I can get any sound of it. It's pretty fancy, so I'm wading through the manual to try and figure out the menus and settings...


 


billohio said:


> https://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/hdsp_9632.php


 
  
 By hooking up Gumby digitally via USB or digitally through that sound card (SPDIF/AES/EBU) and choosing to play bit-perfect (WASAPI or ASIO exclusive modes) through your media player (foobar, Jriver, etc), you are pretty much bypassing all of the fancy stuff on that card. Maybe the inputs for the card would be useful for audio production, but most of the output stuff will be bypassed.
  
 You may not be getting sound out if you are using exclusive modes and have not selected the correct output device.


----------



## BillOhio

xenheadfi said:


> By hooking up Gumby digitally via USB or digitally through that sound card (SPDIF/AES/EBU) and choosing to play bit-perfect (WASAPI or ASIO exclusive modes) through your media player (foobar, Jriver, etc), you are pretty much bypassing all of the fancy stuff on that card. Maybe the inputs for the card would be useful for audio production, but most of the output stuff will be bypassed.
> 
> You may not be getting sound out if you are using exclusive modes and have not selected the correct output device.


 
 The card shows as 6 output devices so it's a bit of a thing to get it configured. I have a breakout cable and spdif cable en route. I have no idea if this will improve the sound, but there are some out there who swear by it.
  
 After a few days with the Gumby I can see what the fuss is about. Whether or not cables *truly* make a difference, I did see a very very noticeable difference in switching from 16 bit to 'automatic' setting in Jriver (so 24/32 bit depth I think). The sound has gone from an overly crisp, metallic and fatiguing sound to something very immersive and detailed and much much smoother. I agree with an earlier poster who mentioned that the bass playing (for me, on Dave Mathews Band 'Under The Table And Dreaming') becomes much more distinguishable than anything I'd heard in the past.
  
 I'm currently listening on a pair of Beyer T5p.2's which are very good headphones that I bought as portable 'all-rounders' and I can see the value of the Gumby/Mjo2. I look forward to a TOTL pair of open cans (probably Ether Flows) on this set up.


----------



## theveterans

billohio said:


> The card shows as 6 output devices so it's a bit of a thing to get it configured. I have a breakout cable and spdif cable en route. I have no idea if this will improve the sound, but there are some out there who swear by it.
> 
> After a few days with the Gumby I can see what the fuss is about. Whether or not cables *truly* make a difference, I did see a very very noticeable difference in switching from 16 bit to 'automatic' setting in Jriver (so 24/32 bit depth I think). The sound has gone from an overly crisp, metallic and fatiguing sound to something very immersive and detailed and much much smoother. I agree with an earlier poster who mentioned that the bass playing (for me, on Dave Mathews Band 'Under The Table And Dreaming') becomes much more distinguishable than anything I'd heard in the past.
> 
> I'm currently listening on a pair of Beyer T5p.2's which are very good headphones that I bought as portable 'all-rounders' and I can see the value of the Gumby/Mjo2. I look forward to a TOTL pair of open cans (probably Ether Flows) on this set up.


 
  
 Keep in mind with a PC, one must use BOTH ASIO and COAX or BNC to get that heavenly orgasmic sound with Gumby or any other Schiit Multibit DACs. With a Mac, I don't know, but PC audio sounds better to me.


----------



## RCBinTN

billohio said:


> The card shows as 6 output devices so it's a bit of a thing to get it configured. I have a breakout cable and spdif cable en route. I have no idea if this will improve the sound, but there are some out there who swear by it.
> 
> After a few days with the Gumby I can see what the fuss is about. Whether or not cables *truly* make a difference, I did see a very very noticeable difference in switching from 16 bit to 'automatic' setting in Jriver (so 24/32 bit depth I think). The sound has gone from an overly crisp, metallic and fatiguing sound to something very immersive and detailed and much much smoother. I agree with an earlier poster who mentioned that the bass playing (for me, on Dave Mathews Band 'Under The Table And Dreaming') becomes much more distinguishable than anything I'd heard in the past.
> 
> I'm currently listening on a pair of Beyer T5p.2's which are very good headphones that I bought as portable 'all-rounders' and I can see the value of the Gumby/Mjo2. I look forward to a TOTL pair of open cans (probably Ether Flows) on this set up.


 
  
 I'm using a Mac with JRMC22 and direct optical cable to the GMB.  I had originally set JR to upsample the output of lower resolution files to 96 kHz, thinking they would sound better.  Then, I received some advice from another Head-FI pal (don't remember who) that said Schiit doesn't recommend using the computer to upsample.  They say the GMB will up-sample with its built-in program.  So then I reset my JR to not modify the output signals.  I also changed the "channels" in JR to "source number of channels."  Net - the SQ is really great with these JR settings.  The GMB is quite a smart device - it works!
  
 Hope this helps,
 RCB


----------



## BillOhio

theveterans said:


> Keep in mind with a PC, one must use BOTH ASIO and COAX or BNC to get that heavenly orgasmic sound with Gumby or any other Schiit Multibit DACs. With a Mac, I don't know, but PC audio sounds better to me.


 
  
 Yep, coaxial is the plan.
  
  


rcbintn said:


> I'm using a Mac with JRMC22 and direct optical cable to the GMB.  I had originally set JR to upsample the output of lower resolution files to 96 kHz, thinking they would sound better.  Then, I received some advice from another Head-FI pal (don't remember who) that said Schiit doesn't recommend using the computer to upsample.  They say the GMB will up-sample with its built-in program.  So then I reset my JR to not modify the output signals.  I also changed the "channels" in JR to "source number of channels."  Net - the SQ is really great with these JR settings.  The GMB is quite a smart device - it works!
> 
> Hope this helps,
> RCB


 
  
 Thank You RCB, I'll check that out.


----------



## kayhikski

rcbintn said:


> I'm using a Mac with JRMC22 and direct optical cable to the GMB.  I had originally set JR to upsample the output of lower resolution files to 96 kHz, thinking they would sound better.  Then, I received some advice from another Head-FI pal (don't remember who) that said Schiit doesn't recommend using the computer to upsample.  They say the GMB will up-sample with its built-in program.  So then I reset my JR to not modify the output signals.  I also changed the "channels" in JR to "source number of channels."  Net - the SQ is really great with these JR settings.  The GMB is quite a smart device - it works!
> 
> Hope this helps,
> RCB


 
 Hi there,
  
 Schiit's website refers to the Gungnir MB as having the same closed-form digital filter as the Yggdrasil. I've seen this referred to as the megaburrito or mega-combo-burrito filter (lol does everything at Schiit have a nickname?). The key and unique feature of this filter is that it preserves original samples.
  
 So yeah, leave JRMC 22 at "No Change" at 192,000Hz and below ..... but you'll need to downsample sources above 192,000Hz in JRiver. I need to do that for my DSD64 and DSD128 downloads. JRiver converts DSD64 to 352,800Hz PCM and DSD128 to 705,000Hz PCM. I set JRiver to output those two inputs at 176,400Hz which is the highest sample rate the Gungnir will accept that the DSD rates are an integer multiple of (which JRiver *may* do a slightly better job with vs 192000Hz which is not an integer multiple but I'm not 100% sure on that). For 384,000Hz and 768,000Hz inputs I have selected 192,000Hz output but have no material that would engage these settings. For greater that 768,000Hz I have 176,400Hz selected for the output (I'm thinking DSD256 here although I don't own any yet).
  
 (PS - I'd attach a screenshot but I'm too new and that doesn't seem to work)
  
 James


----------



## BillOhio

So I've got the RME 9632/Mogami Gold SPDIF WASAPI connection set up and running to the Gumby/Mjo2 and it does sound great, even through my closed T5p2's were bought as portable all-rounders and to me they seem great for this. I don't expect those headphones though to quite compete with some of the more elite headphones.

 Still, the sound is very ... 'supple' with sound stage, separation, clarity, smoothness and overall quality and immersiveness being way beyond anything that I, a relative novice, have heard before. I'm impressed actually with the T5P2's for the money for sound quality, build quality, and comfort (after switching out the stock pads to a pair of sheepskins from Brainwavz which softens the sound slightly but let's me where these headphones all day from a comfort standpoint).

 I was a little worried initially that I was going to be disappointed but that was in the first few hours of ownership before having allowed for the Gumby to warm up. That and the switch from 16 bit depth to 'automatic' in JRiver seem to have gone a long way to smooth out the sound that had initially been hard edged, metallic, very fatiguing.

 I don't know that the switch from Motherboard USB to RME S/PDIF is making as noticeable a difference. Maybe the sound will evolve as the sound card gets some more hours on it in my system. Maybe the switch is making more of a difference than I realize without doing A/B comparisons. Maybe I'll make a discovery as I play around with the JRiver settings. Switching the USB to the RME with postage and duties up here in Canada was more than $400 ($500?) CAD though and I don't know that I'm quite hearing a difference that's on the level of that expense, at least not yet.

 Still, the set up sounds fantastic overall and I do look forward to adding in a high end open set of cans, currently I imagine the Ether Flows.

 Anyway, that's my report,
 Cheers,
 -Bill


----------



## joegator81

I was wandering if any of you have experience with the Halide HD DAC as compared to the Gumby? The Halide is my longtime DAC and it really is very good but considering my only comparisons are with an original HRT Streamer and an Oppo BDP 83 my experience is limited. Also, I know this is a head phone site but I'm using this in my 2 channel speaker rig and will be using single ended since that is all my Belles 23A has (I hate to ditch it just to accommodate a DAC).

My system: 

LSA 1 Statement monitors
Rhythmik E500PE x 2
Belles 23A line pre
Emerald Physics 100.2SE power amp
Clear Day Double Shotgun Speaker cables and jumpers
Audio Art IC-3 interconnects 

I'm considering a Gustard U12 for USB conversion but I've also seen some USB to BNC cables but not sure if they would work in this setting?

I also listen to vinyl but I'm listening to a lot of digital these days with Tidal. I do have some 24/96 HD Tracks downloads.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

jcn3 said:


> the jotunheim/mimby combo should sound quite good.  i would think to get materially better you'd need to go to the gumby/mjolnir 2 combo.
> 
> i'd also think about system matching -- are your headphones a good match with the jotunheim?  you've spent a good amount on them, but is the combo synergistic?
> 
> sounds like you need to optimize the amp/headphone combo.  wouldn't worry about the dac until you're sure you've got that sorted out.


 

 ​Could you explain to a noob about headphone/amp synergy? I tried the th900 with the Jot, think it sounded great (after EQ to up the bass). Just bought an IFI iCAN pro to try. I think that sounds great as well. Also just got a set of LCD 3 and LCD 2 they sound great (prefer the lcd3, but its an extra $1k). Maybe I'm just easy to please lol. But how do you determine when there is good synergy? Got a Mojo but only tried it with the Jot, I cant tell much difference between it and the Modi multibit. It might be slightly better but I like both.
  
 I wonder because I can't hear much difference between a $500 Jot and $1699 iCAN pro. Bot sound great to me. Am I just inexperienced? I usually listen to edm, rap, rock kinda loud. I like it to have good bass while having good separation and clarity. I have noticed a big difference in headphones. lcd 3>lcd2 and th900>he400i
  
 PS, I cant use the apo EQ with Mojo with ASIO. How can I change it from ASIO to DS? I tried google and youtube and still didn't figure out how. Anybody tell me or give a link to how to do it on pc using Win 10? Was told to change it to ds while using mojo and could use Mojo.


----------



## Ableza

averageguync said:


> ​Could you explain to a noob about headphone/amp synergy?


 
 Synergy is the idea that certain pieces of gear work better together than others.  It is usually a totally subjective thing in the mind of the listener.  Some preamp-amp combinations do have performance issues because of impedance, but in general with headphones it's all about what sounds good to you, and if the amp has sufficient power for the headphone's demands.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

ableza said:


> Synergy is the idea that certain pieces of gear work better together than others.  It is usually a totally subjective thing in the mind of the listener.  Some preamp-amp combinations do have performance issues because of impedance, but in general with headphones it's all about what sounds good to you, and if the amp has sufficient power for the headphone's demands.


 

 ​Well I liked both the th900 and LCD3 about the same with the IFI iCAN pro and Jotunheim. But then I tried the LCD2 with the iCAN pro and I really liked it a lot more than on the Jotunheim, so is that an example of good synergy maybe? I was surprised by the big improvement in SQ when I didn't notice much on the first two I tried. The Jotunheim can power all of them well tho.
  
 Another question, since I'm not noticing a big difference yet, is it a possibility that if I upgraded to a high end DAC that I will notice the quality of the iCAN pro better? Or maybe there isn't a huge SQ difference in them? Using the Mimby so far but still have the Mojo to try out.


----------



## Eldair

Hey, is it huge difference between delta-sigma and multibit Gungnir, sound wise? I just wonder is it worth 400€. Thanks


----------



## Charente

eldair said:


> Hey, is it huge difference between delta-sigma and multibit Gungnir, sound wise? I just wonder is it worth 400€. Thanks


 
  
 I haven't compared personally, but when I did my research on the various threads, the general consensus is that there is a worthwhile positive difference...whether it's 'HUGE' (or even worth the extra) may be a personal matter. I'm certainly happy with the MultiBit...no complaints in my setup.


----------



## joeexp

charente said:


> I haven't compared personally, but when I did my research on the various threads, the general consensus is that there is a worthwhile positive difference...whether it's 'HUGE' (or even worth the extra) may be a personal matter. I'm certainly happy with the MultiBit...no complaints in my setup.


 

 Worth every penny!


----------



## Tom Blake

averageguync said:


> ​Well I liked both the th900 and LCD3 about the same with the IFI iCAN pro and Jotunheim. But then I tried the LCD2 with the iCAN pro and I really liked it a lot more than on the Jotunheim, so is that an example of good synergy maybe? I was surprised by the big improvement in SQ when I didn't notice much on the first two I tried. The Jotunheim can power all of them well tho.
> 
> Another question, since I'm not noticing a big difference yet, is it a possibility that if I upgraded to a high end DAC that I will notice the quality of the iCAN pro better? Or maybe there isn't a huge SQ difference in them? Using the Mimby so far but still have the Mojo to try out.


 
 I also upgraded from a Jotunheim to an iFi iCAN Pro to drive my LCD-2's. The difference was tremendous. The iFi amp made the Jot sound bright and shrill with my LCD-2's in comparison. Of course the iFi amp is 4x the price so it had better be an improvement! The Jot was good but the sound was a little too analytical for me with the LCD-2's. Note that I am very sensitive to treble brightness. I am amazed at how good the iCAN Pro is. Highly recommended for synergy with LCD-2 (and I assume -3 and -4).


----------



## Ableza

The response to my next statement should be "duh," but different pieces of equipment do indeed sound different from one another.  And you know what else? What sounds good to me may or may not sound good to you.  And vice-versa.  It is all about personal preference.  Synergy is a made up idea - preference is all that matters.
  
 As an old friend of mine once said, "Audio is a series of compromises.  The goal is to discover the set of compromises you enjoy."


----------



## winders

ableza said:


> Synergy is a made up idea...


 
  
 I completely disagree. But hey, you can be cynical if you want.


----------



## Ableza

winders said:


> I completely disagree. But hey, you can be cynical if you want.


 

 ​Not being cynical, being an engineer.  There is no such thing as "synergy."  It is a concept made up by audiophiles to describe when they like the way certain pieces of gear work together.  It has value in that it can help some people describe their subjective experience.  But it is not a meaningful term in engineering.  "Soundstage" is a similar term.


----------



## winders

The word "synergy" has been around a very long time. I am an engineer to and I know synergy exists. On my race car, there are certain parts and configurations that work together better than they should. They outperform more expensive parts and setup because of their synergy. There is no reason to doubt synergy exists in audio as well. Sound quality is more than just specs and facts.


----------



## Ableza

winders said:


> The word "synergy" has been around a very long time. I am an engineer to and I know synergy exists. On my race car, there are certain parts and configurations that work together better than they should. They outperform more expensive parts and setup because of their synergy. There is no reason to doubt synergy exists in audio as well. Sound quality is more than just specs and facts.


 

 ​What are its units?    Like I said, it is a subjective term, a description of observed behavior, not an engineering property.


----------



## winders

ableza said:


> ​What are its units?    Like I said, it is a subjective term, a description of observed behavior, not an engineering property.


 

 Great sounding music is not just about units and engineering properties. It never has been and never will be....


----------



## Ableza

winders said:


> Great sounding music is not just about units and engineering properties. It never has been and never will be....


 

 Where did I say it was?  You are reading a lot into my statements.  Please read my posts again.
  
 Synergy is one of those things that some people "find" and others do not.  You might think the Amazatron 5000 has "great synergy" with the Orgasmis 34, and what that means is in your opinion they work well together.  You like the way it sounds.  I might try the same combination and think it blows.  That is the definition of a subjective phenomenon, and using a made-up term to describe what the user finds pleasing.  Is that "wrong"?  No, of course not.  Everyone uses terms like that to describe their feelings and perceptions.  But it is not "real" in the sense that it is not universal.  It is not a "truth."  It is a perception.


----------



## winders

ableza said:


> Where did I say it was?  You are reading a lot into my statements.  Please read my posts again.
> 
> Synergy is one of those things that some people "find" and others do not.  You might think the Amazatron 5000 has "great synergy" with the Orgasmis 34, and what that means is in your opinion they work well together.  You like the way it sounds.  I might try the same combination and think it blows.  That is the definition of a subjective phenomenon, and using a made-up term to describe what the user finds pleasing.  Is that "wrong"?  No, of course not.  Everyone uses terms like that to describe their feelings and perceptions.  But it is not "real" in the sense that it is not universal.  It is not a "truth."  It is a perception.


 

 I hate to tell you this, but EVERYTHING we see and hear, and what we think of them, are perceptions.  Just because "synergy" cannot always be defined in scientific terms does not make it any less real. Remember, perception IS reality.
  
 There are plenty of examples of "synergy" that can be describe in units. For example, headphones that are lacking in warmth will sound better with a tube amp with warm tubes. That is synergy.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

tom blake said:


> I also upgraded form a Jotunheim to an iFi iCAN Pro to drive my LCD-2's. The difference was tremendous. The iFi amp made the Jot sound bright and shrill with my LCD-2's. Of course the iFi amp is 4x the price so it had better be an improvement! The Jot was good but the sound was a little too analytical for me with the LCD-2's. Note that I am very sensitive to treble brightness. I am amazed at how good the iCAN Pro is. Highly recommended for synergy with LCD-2 (and I assume -3 and -4).


 

 ​to me the lcd2 sounded closed in like you were listening to two little speakers next to you, then on the iCAN pro it sounds like you are in a room full of music like they should sound imo. it opened them up and made beautiful music together. I tried the he400i and I think they sounded better on the iCAN pro too? so it seems to me the lower tier sets seem to improve more than the higher end headphones on the better amp (to my ears). I'm still letting it play 24 hrs a day to break it in.


----------



## Ableza

winders said:


> I hate to tell you this, but EVERYTHING we see and hear, and what we think of them, are perceptions.


 
 On that you and I definitely agree.  
  
 Synergy is a construct based on perceptions.  It exists only in the minds of users.  Which makes it "real" for the person experiencing it, regardless of whether or not it is founded in any objective truth.  Much like most of audio.


----------



## RCBinTN

eldair said:


> Hey, is it huge difference between delta-sigma and multibit Gungnir, sound wise? I just wonder is it worth 400€. Thanks


 
  
 I owned the original Gungnir, then decided to spend the $500 and upgrade to the MB.  IMO, that was the single best investment I've ever made to my HP rig.  The music SQ improved so much that I can't really describe it very well - more details, better soundstage, now the HD800 have bass, just on and on.  It just works - it's the real thing.  I know these comments are subjective, but when you make the upgrade, you will be very happy.
  
 Best -
 RCB


----------



## Tom Blake

averageguync said:


> ​to me the lcd2 sounded closed in like you were listening to two little speakers next to you, then on the iCAN pro it sounds like you are in a room full of music like they should sound imo. it opened them up and made beautiful music together. I tried the he400i and I think they sounded better on the iCAN pro too? so it seems to me the lower tier sets seem to improve more than the higher end headphones on the better amp (to my ears). I'm still letting it play 24 hrs a day to break it in.


 
 Yes the iCAN Pro is truly an endgame amp. SO happy with mine! It's versatility is unequaled also. I eagerly await the companion iDSD Pro DAC that appears to be coming soon. I am waiting to see what that is like before deciding whether to upgrade my Gungnir to a Gumby or not.


----------



## winders

ableza said:


> Synergy is a construct based on perceptions


 
  
 Not true at all. But you go ahead believe that if you need too. Synergies abound in nature and in science.
  
 Look here:
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy


----------



## Ableza

You seem to think this is some kind of debate. No matter. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## winders

ableza said:


> You seem to think this is some kind of debate. No matter.


 
  
 I am not the one saying that synergies are constructs fabricated in our minds. You might as well say there world is flat.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

tom blake said:


> Yes the iCAN Pro is truly an endgame amp. SO happy with mine! It's versatility is unequaled also. I eagerly await the companion iDSD Pro DAC that appears to be coming soon. I am waiting to see what that is like before deciding whether to upgrade my Gungnir to a Gumby or not.




Yeah I like mine a lot. Just not a huge difference from my jotunheim to me. Especially after I adjust the eq. And I don't have any headphones that need that much power. I'm going to listen more of course. Just was figuring I would replace the jotunheim with it but not sure if it's worth 4x the price

What is it that you like so much? Is it the sq or mainly the features like bass boost


----------



## Tom Blake

averageguync said:


> Yeah I like mine a lot. Just not a huge difference from my jotunheim to me. Especially after I adjust the eq. And I don't have any headphones that need that much power. I'm going to listen more of course. Just was figuring I would replace the jotunheim with it but not sure if it's worth 4x the price
> 
> What is it that you like so much? Is it the sq or mainly the features like bass boost


 
 I would say it's both. The sound quality is worth at least 2X the Jot cost for me. I was never that impressed with the LCD-2's on the Jot. The features are worth the other 2X cost differential for me. I love having both the SS and Tube Hybrid modes. Depending on recording they both sound great with the LCD-2's. I am a basshead and the LCD-2's respond really well to the X-Bass control. I leave it on 10 Hz all the time and sometimes push it to 20 Hz. 40 Hz is too much of a good thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I also like the 3D control. I listen to a lot of bad recordings and it really helps open them up. A better comparison in the Schiit lineup would be the Mjolnir 2 vs. the iCAN Pro. Even if the sound quality is much closer between them the extra features on the iCAN Pro would be worth it to me. I paid full price for my iCAN Pro and find it worth every penny. The forthcoming iDSD Pro has extreme competition though at $2K so it had better really deliver. I can upgrade my Gungnir to a Gumby for only $500 so it will have to be tremendous to warrant the extra $900 (I have $600 into my used Gungnir).


----------



## DWbirdseye

Seems reasonable to me to think that synergy would play a role in sound quality. Afterall it's called chemistry between human beings, and pairing between wine and food.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

tom blake said:


> I would say it's both. The sound quality is worth at least 2X the Jot cost for me. I was never that impressed with the LCD-2's on the Jot. The features are worth the other 2X cost differential for me. I love having both the SS and Tube Hybrid modes. Depending on recording they both sound great with the LCD-2's. I am a basshead and the LCD-2's respond really well to the X-Bass control. I leave it on 10 Hz all the time and sometimes push it to 20 Hz. 40 Hz is too much of a good thing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ​Well as I let the iCAN pro break in, I'm more impressed with the sound quality. One thing that's really odd to me is I seem to notice a bigger improvement in sound quality in my lower end cans ( ldc2 and he400i ) with it than with my higher end cans (lcd3 and th900)?! I love the way the lcd2 sounds with it, but didn't notice much difference with the lcd3 over the Jotunheim. I will have to go back and a/b the two amps tho. I really like the bass boost. It seems like I get some distortion when I boost the bass with the EQ but sounds really clean when I use the boost on the amp for some reason? I got my iCAN on sale so I can get my money back out of it and try something else if I don't like it. Its my first tube amp but cant easily roll tubes.


----------



## potterma

winders said:


> I am not the one saying that synergies are constructs fabricated in our minds. You might as well say there world is flat.


 

 Interesting debate.  May a 3rd Engineer throw in a thought or two?
 Copernicus was a heretic.  According to the Holy Roman Church he was dead wrong in his theories.  Remember, the Church WAS the scientific body of the day.  Copernicus, as it turned out,  was right...
  
 Ever stand in a window on a sunny winter day and marvel at the warmth pouring through the pane?  Of course, today, we know that it is due to mid- and long-wave IR emission from the sun that is transmitted through the glass, converted to heat and sensed by our amazing nervous system as pleasantly warm.  We can put numbers on the wavelength ranges, the incident power per unit area can be quantified.  Not so long ago, it was a mystery.  It just felt good.  It stirred something in someone, though...
  
 I find many qualities in musical enjoyment that I can't quantify.  Perhaps, someday, 5, 10 or 100 years from now we may be able to put numbers and new, unnamed units, to describe "synergy", "sound stage" or hell, even "euphonic".  And don't even get me started on "burn in"!!
  
 Respectfully, look back at the history of the units you use every day: Hertz, Amps, Volts, Coulombs, Watts, Joules, Calories, Candela,  ... The list is very, very long... Might there be room for a few we haven't thought of yet? Or, are we so arrogant to think and posit that "The Science I Know Today is the Culmination of ALL Science!" or "Whatever there is to be learned has been learned already"?


----------



## Baldr

Now I will be the first to admit that I am a fan of the Gungnir.  Hardly surprising I suppose.  The Gungnir (Gumby variant) is the second in a line of steadily decreasing price multibit DACs.  I am a believer in multibit DACs as being more satisfying in a sense of transmitting emotions inherent in the music.  I have been building audio DACs since the early 1980s and gave up on them in the early nineties as multibits were being phased out in favor in delta sigma DACs (cheaper, measure well, but devoid of feeling).  Now this is only my feeling and entirely anecdotal.  There are many who agree with me, and those who do not.  I believe in it enough to devote considerable design energies into a line of four multibit DACs.  Based upon my sales and client feedback, there are many who must feel what I feel in(from) the music.
  
 As an aside, I have observed many singers auditioning for regional musicals.  Believe it or not, there are those who would audition who are tone deaf.  Thankfully, the majority are not.  The point here is that there is a similar range of listening ability here as well.  Some may require approval or qualification of their opinions from experts or opinion leaders, others not.  I say here that listeners' abilities vary widely, and I have had much to learn from them over the last 40 years or so.  For example, I have seen evidence that tone perception is teachable.
  
 What is my point?  It is that everyone hears what they hear and are entitled to just that.  I cannot pretend to know what anyone else perceives and have no right to tell them why they are deaf or wrong.  All I can do is build the most satisfying equipment I can.  If you agree on what sounds good, now that is a plus.  If you do not, well then we still have in common a wonderful hobby.
  
 As I write, I am listening to a Beethoven Missa Solemnis on period instruments with a Gungnir and a prototype MP (A project I cover more on my own thread) and am feeling quite satisfied.  I hope all of you are as well.


----------



## US Blues

baldr said:


> Now I will be the first to admit that I am a fan of the Gungnir.  Hardly surprising I suppose.  The Gungnir (Gumby variant) is the second in a line of steadily decreasing price multibit DACs.  I am a believer in multibit DACs as being more satisfying in a sense of transmitting emotions inherent in the music.  I have been building audio DACs since the early 1980s and gave up on them in the early nineties as multibits were being phased out in favor in delta sigma DACs (cheaper, measure well, but devoid of feeling).  Now this is only my feeling and entirely anecdotal.  There are many who agree with me, and those who do not.  I believe in it enough to devote considerable design energies into a line of four multibit DACs.  Based upon my sales and client feedback, there are many who must feel what I feel in(from) the music.
> 
> As an aside, I have observed many singers auditioning for regional musicals.  Believe it or not, there are those who would audition who are tone deaf.  Thankfully, the majority are not.  The point here is that there is a similar range of listening ability here as well.  Some may require approval or qualification of their opinions from experts or opinion leaders, others not.  I say here that listeners' abilities vary widely, and I have had much to learn from them over the last 40 years or so.  For example, I have seen evidence that tone perception is teachable.
> 
> ...


 

 Baldr- when I have an 'MP' running in my system with a pair of Vidar's I'll be happy as Schiit!
  
 And your point about hearing and emotion in music is wonderfully articulate, thank you.


----------



## joebobbilly

I've been waiting or the last few months in the front of the queue for the multibit upgrade and they just keep teasing me with the backordered estimate date moving back each time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I had thought I'd kill time reading through this thread, but it has only fed the desire! The current Gungnir DS was already a sublime treat for me when I upgraded from a Fiio E17 several years back. I can only hope that the wait will not be much longer!


----------



## byttle

When I asked yesterday they told me next week, if not sooner for my au naturel gumby.


----------



## MOFOfunk

joebobbilly said:


> I've been waiting or the last few months in the front of the queue for the multibit upgrade and they just keep teasing me with the backordered estimate date moving back each time :confused_face: . I had thought I'd kill time reading through this thread, but it has only fed the desire! The current Gungnir DS was already a sublime treat for me when I upgraded from a Fiio E17 several years back. I can only hope that the wait will not be much longer!




You are waiting for something good and perhaps they are even preparing a special treat for you...



baldr said:


> You know, everything I have ever done has "problems".  Since I am the release authority on my products it behooves me to make sure any of those are so minor as to be inconsequential.  If I fail in that regard, it will cost me time, trouble, and money.  So minor, in fact, they must be reduced to the level of imperfections as a design imperative.  If called out on those "imperfections", my first response will probably be like it was 30 years at Theta, where I would tell them to go buy a phuckin' anybody else's DAC.  All these years later, I am still doing the best I can for the most people.  No matter what I do, I can't build an every person's DAC or digital audio thingy.  It is inevitable that somebody out there is going to tell me I'm full of Schiit and believe it as well.  Way back then, Theta was the first company to go upgradable.  Everything Bifrost and up continues so today at Schiit.  Every now and then someone will tell me how much he spent on Bifrost upgrades.  You want a better sound earlier than others, that's why you go upgradable.  You don't like it, buy some phuckin' DAC where you have to throw the whole thing away.  Then watch the Accu-Jack model I resale crater when the Accu-Jack model 2 comes out.  That is not as hostile as it sounds, I just have to pick a path and stick with it - which I have been doing so for decades now.
> 
> So here comes another benefit of upgradable gear which has nothing to do with earlier rumors on this thread:  from time to time we make trivial and minor improvements to our gear.  That's why an Yggy flushes down all of the old Theta gear.  In 30 years you learn stuff.  Problem is most of those upgrades do not justify a trip back until we have something of major consequence to upgrade.  $75 worth of shipping for a $2 part?  Nah.  All good things come to those who wait.  You will be able to upgrade.  You can bet most other makers of DACs do as well.  With no upgrade path, however, you will be looking at the resale of the Accu-Jack 1 unless you are psychic.
> 
> ...


----------



## gwitzel

> Originally Posted by *Baldr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> As an aside, I have observed many singers auditioning for regional musicals.  Believe it or not, there are those who would audition who are tone deaf.  Thankfully, the majority are not.  The point here is that there is a similar range of listening ability here as well.  Some may require approval or qualification of their opinions from experts or opinion leaders, others not.  I say here that listeners' abilities vary widely, and I have had much to learn from them over the last 40 years or so.  For example, I have seen evidence that tone perception is teachable.


 
  
 I think this holds true especially also outside electronic music reproduction. In college, my room mate started to be interested in classical music. So I started sharing some of my music with him. I showed him one day the second piano concerto by Prokofiev (played by Y. Kissin). I love the archaic 3. movement and started to describe to him how the melodic material is picked up by different instrument groups in the orchestra and how interesting it is. He interrupted me and said that for him it was only a wall of sound, he could not even really pick out the instrument groups, and as a result also not really follow what happened musically. Listening to complex music is something you must learn, you don't simply possess. Peter and the Wolf might be a good starting point


----------



## byttle

joebobbilly said:


> I've been waiting or the last few months in the front of the queue for the multibit upgrade and they just keep teasing me with the backordered estimate date moving back each time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My Gumby just shipped. Hope yours ships soon as well~!


----------



## joebobbilly

Got the email yesterday. Just dropped it off at the post office. The excitement is intense.


----------



## wiz2596

How do you guys compare the sound quality of modi multibit va gungnir multibit using rca connections? Do you think it will worth the purchase?

Enviado desde mi GT-I9300 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## RCBinTN

gwitzel said:


> I think this holds true especially also outside electronic music reproduction. In college, my room mate started to be interested in classical music. So I started sharing some of my music with him. I showed him one day the second piano concerto by Prokofiev (played by Y. Kissin). I love the archaic 3. movement and started to describe to him how the melodic material is picked up by different instrument groups in the orchestra and how interesting it is. He interrupted me and said that for him it was only a wall of sound, he could not even really pick out the instrument groups, and as a result also not really follow what happened musically. Listening to complex music is something you must learn, you don't simply possess. Peter and the Wolf might be a good starting point


 
  
 I had a similar experience.  My wife and I started listening to HP's together, early in our relationship 20-years ago.  I had two pair of the old Sony MDR-V6 and a really crappy rig w/ scratchy vinyl and a nail for a stylus.  But, Annette wanted to learn about the instruments.  We started w/ country music - soon she had learned the difference between an acoustic guitar, banjo, dobro, mandolin, fiddle, cowbell, washboard, ya know.  Learned how the musicians talk back and forth with their instruments.  It was a fun experience for both of us.
  
 To be fair, it's more challenging with orchestral music.  We continue listening together to this day, but now it's much easier to pick out the instruments because the Gumby is so resolving.  Thanks, Mike!
  
 Cheers All,
 RCB


----------



## ToddRaymond

wiz2596 said:


> How do you guys compare the sound quality of modi multibit va gungnir multibit using rca connections? Do you think it will worth the purchase?




For me, it's a worthwhile jump in sonic bliss. Depends of course on your ears/perception, the quality of stuffs in the rest of yer chain, and of course, whether or not it's financially feasible at this point. I'd definitely get the Gumby it if you can swing it. It's fantastic.


----------



## gwitzel

rcbintn said:


> I had a similar experience.  My wife and I started listening to HP's together, early in our relationship 20-years ago.  I had two pair of the old Sony MDR-V6 and a really crappy rig w/ scratchy vinyl and a nail for a stylus.  But, Annette wanted to learn about the instruments.  We started w/ country music - soon she had learned the difference between an acoustic guitar, banjo, dobro, mandolin, fiddle, cowbell, washboard, ya know.  Learned how the musicians talk back and forth with their instruments.  It was a fun experience for both of us.
> 
> To be fair, it's more challenging with orchestral music.  We continue listening together to this day, but now it's much easier to pick out the instruments because the Gumby is so resolving.  Thanks, Mike!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree, and this extends to learning about the timbre and facets of sound that a good musician uses. Once you get used to listening to those differences in the coloration of the sound the sound system can get very distracting. I think the brain does quite some extrapolation, much is happening in the imagination. But if the sound has anything artificial the illusion is gone.  My Gumby does exactly the opposite: displaying the music in the most natural way.


----------



## RCBinTN

gwitzel said:


> I agree, and this extends to learning about the timbre and facets of sound that a good musician uses. Once you get used to listening to those differences in the coloration of the sound the sound system can get very distracting. I think the brain does quite some extrapolation, much is happening in the imagination. But if the sound has anything artificial the illusion is gone.  My Gumby does exactly the opposite: displaying the music in the most natural way.


 
  
 Well stated!  Agree with the timbre resolution.  I can now hear when Joe Bonamassa changes to a different guitar, that's a nice place to be!


----------



## Rodat

Received the Gungnir Multibit yesterday, this DAC exceeded my expectations, I was thinking that maybe I would not hear the difference upgrading from the Denon 300USB but it really is in another league.
 I received a week earlier the Mjolnir fitted with 2 RCA tubes 6BQ7A.  I am using it in balanced mode with Sennheiser 800S headphones.
 They are really engineered to work with each other. I am very satisfied with the result.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

gwitzel said:


> I think this holds true especially also outside electronic music reproduction. In college, my room mate started to be interested in classical music. So I started sharing some of my music with him. I showed him one day the second piano concerto by Prokofiev (played by Y. Kissin). I love the archaic 3. movement and started to describe to him how the melodic material is picked up by different instrument groups in the orchestra and how interesting it is. He interrupted me and said that for him it was only a wall of sound, he could not even really pick out the instrument groups, and as a result also not really follow what happened musically. Listening to complex music is something you must learn, you don't simply possess. Peter and the Wolf might be a good starting point




Not much of a classical person myself, but I thought that was most of the appeal, hearing the different instruments being played, a small one in the back for just a second, then fading away, etc. Well, that or just calming music that you barely pay attention to in the background lol


----------



## AverageGuyNC

wiz2596 said:


> How do you guys compare the sound quality of modi multibit va gungnir multibit using rca connections? Do you think it will worth the purchase?
> 
> Enviado desde mi GT-I9300 mediante Tapatalk




IMO, the reason you pay for the gungnir is because it's balanced, and want to hook it to a balanced amp. Would go bifrost or maybe even modi if using SE. There is an interview on YouTube with both guys from Schiit and he basically said that himself. I might link it.


----------



## winders

averageguync said:


> IMO, the reason you pay for the gungnir is because it's balanced, and want to hook it to a balanced amp. Would go bifrost or maybe even modi if using SE. There is an interview on YouTube with both guys from Schiit and he basically said that himself. I might link it.


 

 Gungnir Multibit is on a whole different level than the Bifrost Multibit or Modi Multibit...single ended or balanced. There is a large chasm between Yggy/Gumby (21 bit/19 bit) and Bimby/Mimby (16 bit).


----------



## AverageGuyNC

I'm saying that the price difference  ($650) is probably not worth it if going SE. It is def better in SE or balanced but you are paying a lot for features that you wont be using. Now, if you were planning on buying a balanced amp later, its a different story IMO.  If planning on staying SE, I would go Bifrost or even a DAC from a different company. There are probably some DACs out there that are designed to go SE that sound very close to the Gungnir that are say, $900 or 1,000. Maybe a used Chord Hugo or something in that league idk.. Just trying to help him make an educated decision.
  
 Anyways, the interview I referenced earlier where he actually talks about the Gungnir vs Bifrost. Go to 4:25
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Eu1LyPZ090


----------



## winders

averageguync said:


> I'm saying that the price difference  ($650) is probably not worth it if going SE. It is def better in SE or balanced but you are paying a lot for features that you wont be using. Now, if you were planning on buying a balanced amp later, its a different story IMO.  If planning on staying SE, I would go Bifrost or even a DAC from a different company. There are probably some DACs out there that are designed to go SE that sound very close to the Gungnir that are say, $900 or 1,000. Maybe a used Chord Hugo or something in that league idk.. Just trying to help him make an educated decision.
> 
> Anyways, the interview I referenced earlier where he actually talks about the Gungnir vs Bifrost. Go to 4:25
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Eu1LyPZ090


 

 I think you are overstating the balanced feature. If you have equipment that uses balanced, great. If you don't, that's fine too. Balanced or SE does not change what the DACs do or how they sound. It's kind of like saying you shouldn't get the Yggdrasil if you aren't going to use the AES input even though it has USB and three types of S/PDIF inputs too.


----------



## winders

averageguync said:


> Anyways, the interview I referenced earlier where he actually talks about the Gungnir vs Bifrost. Go to 4:25
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Eu1LyPZ090


 
  
 He is talking about the Sigma Delta versions of the DACs....and he never says you should only consider Gungnir if you are going to use balanced.


----------



## AverageGuyNC

winders said:


> He is talking about the Sigma Delta versions of the DACs....and he never says you should only consider Gungnir if you are going to use balanced.


 

 ​Actually he said it differently than I remembered. I though he said the Gungnir was basically the equivalent of just two Bifrost plus a couple additional features, but I still posted it so people could get the actual story, not what I thought he said.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 But I still think a person would be better off looking at other options if staying SE. Could get similar quality and save a little money. I have a Modi mb, Chord Mojo, and wanted a Gumby badly. But I found an upgraded Yggy quicker than a Gumby  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  ...should have it Monday. But I have a balanced amp (iCAN pro)


----------



## winders

I ran my Yggdrasil with my Lyr 2 (SE) for quite a while. It was a great combination!


----------



## gwitzel

averageguync said:


> Not much of a classical person myself, but I thought that was most of the appeal, hearing the different instruments being played, a small one in the back for just a second, then fading away, etc. Well, that or just calming music that you barely pay attention to in the background lol


 
  
 I challange you to try to realx with said 3. movement of Prokoffiev 2 in the background. Let me know how that goes


----------



## AverageGuyNC

gwitzel said:


> I challange you to try to realx with said 3. movement of Prokoffiev 2 in the background. Let me know how that goes




I really have no idea who they are but may check them out sometime


----------



## potterma

gwitzel said:


> I challange you to try to realx with said 3. movement of Prokoffiev 2 in the background. Let me know how that goes


 

 I enjoy both Prokofiev and E. Kissin.  Do you have a recommended recording?
 Thanks!


----------



## JerryLeeds

Joining


----------



## Tom Blake

Just replaced my Gungnir with a used Gumby. Wow what a huge difference! I was expecting to A/B them against each other but the difference was immediately apparent. Gumby has much better resolution and a sense of "air" around instruments. Very happy with the upgrade. Will be posting the Gungnir for sale soon. Makes me wonder how much better the Yggy is?


----------



## Dalgas

I Think the Gumby is a totally different beast than the Gungnir. I would not call it an upgrade. You are in fact getting a very different sound. Gumby is very neutral and some care must be taken when matching with speakers and amp. 
Dont use the Gumby USB interface -it is not bad but a good external USB/spdif converter is WAY better. I use a Yellowtec PUC2 lite.


----------



## Tom Blake

dalgas said:


> I Think the Gumby is a totally different beast than the Gungnir. I would not call it an upgrade. You are in fact getting a very different sound. Gumby is very neutral and some care must be taken when matching with speakers and amp.
> Dont use the Gumby USB interface -it is not bad but a good external USB/spdif converter is WAY better. I use a Yellowtec PUC2 lite.


 
 I am using a microRendu (powered by UpTone LPS-1) into the Gumby USB input. The microRendu is fed by a dedicated Roon server. I think this sounds fantastic! My amp is the iFi iCAN Pro. Headphones are LCD-2 (2016 model) and TH900. Speakers are Genelec M040 monitors. My system has never sounded better after the Gumby upgrade and I am happy with the overall synergy


----------



## orkney

The Gungnir source select button could use a rethink. Loose enough to rattle when walking past it in the units we've got here.


----------



## Alan Ballagh

orkney said:


> The Gungnir source select button could use a rethink. Loose enough to rattle when walking past it in the units we've got here.




You got bigger problems if your floor is that bouncy the dac button rattles!


----------



## Ableza

tom blake said:


> Just replaced my Gungnir with a used Gumby. Wow what a huge difference! I was expecting to A/B them against each other but the difference was immediately apparent. Gumby has much better resolution and a sense of "air" around instruments. Very happy with the upgrade. Will be posting the Gungnir for sale soon. Makes me wonder how much better the Yggy is?


 

 Better.


----------



## Mr Rick

I have a Gumby on the way, and have read the last ten pages or so. When it gets here I think I'll just plug it in and enjoy it.


----------



## BillOhio

mr rick said:


> I have a Gumby on the way, and have read the last ten pages or so. When it gets here I think I'll just plug it in and enjoy it.


 
  
 NM, I was going to give some pointers on the Gumby but then I noticed your profile and realize you've got a handle on setting up a DAC.


----------



## JerryLeeds

I'm feeding my DAC from a mojo audio linear power supplied Mac mini with a wyrd (usb)

Would the sound improve much if I switched the source to Simaudio's new moon neo mind network streamer? Using one of it's digital outputs?

Mobile product link below

http://m.simaudio.com/en/product/106-network-streaming-music-player.html

Or would adding this Mutec usb to digital converter to the existing Mac mini chain improve things?

https://www.mutec-net.com/product_mc-3-plus-usb.php


----------



## winders

jerryleeds said:


> I'm feeding my DAC from a mojo audio linear power supplied Mac mini with a wyrd (usb)
> 
> Would the sound improve much if I switched the source to Simaudio's new moon neo mind network streamer? Using one of it's digital outputs?
> 
> ...


 

 I would suspect the Moon Neo using the SPDIF coax connection would give you the best audio. But that is just a guess based on the fact that USB is never in the picture.


----------



## AudioBear

Gumby is pretty much set and forget.


----------



## BillOhio

audiobear said:


> Gumby is pretty much set and forget.


 
  
  
 If someone's not familiar with the need to let the DAC warm up for a couple days then they may be initially disappointed with the Gumby. That was my experience.


----------



## RCBinTN

billohio said:


> If someone's not familiar with the need to let the DAC warm up for a couple days then they may be initially disappointed with the Gumby. That was my experience.


 
  
 Very true.  Then, leave it powered on and warm all the time (unless lightening threatens).  The Gumby when warm will sound very consistent and provide exceptional SQ.  That's my experience.
  
 Cheers,
 RCB


----------



## artur9

Curious:  Anyone here familiar with the Denafrip Ares?  Any opinions, founded or not, on how it would compare with a Gumby?


----------



## joebobbilly

If the stars align, my gumby upgrade should return home today! My day at work needs to go faster...


----------



## Nyerk

So, I’m currently trying to decide on which DAC and amp I’ll purchase in a somewhat near future, and the Gumby got my attention again. The problem however is that I’m not sure what to look at in terms of an amp to pair with the Gumby. Obviously, I’ve considered the Mjolnir 2, but just not sure if it fits in the description of what I’d like in an amp.

Ideally, I’d want that straight wire with gain, but that is probably not easy to come by at my budget, which I should add is preferably no more than $1000. I don’t want an amp that would hold the Gumby back and act as a bottleneck in my system, if that’s possible.

An amp that doesn’t color the sound too much, is fast with a tight bass, able to present all microdetails and the smallest of differences in dynamics. That is probably among the things I’d value the most in an amp.

I know my question is about finding an amp, but wasn’t sure if the Mjolnir 2 thread was the right place to ask for recommendations of other amps. I hope I turned to the right thread, and that maybe some of you Gumby users could point me in the right direction.


----------



## cskippy

Jotunheim or Mjolnir 2 with LiSST tubes might be your two best options.  Tube amps can be very transparent and quick.  If you can find a Eddie Current Black Widow, that would be a great option as it's very competent and technical yet has a warmth much like a really good tube amp.  

This might not be a bad option, although I haven't personally heard it:
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649335802-bryston-bha1-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## Nyerk

Both BHA-1 and Black Widow seem like good candidates, but hard to come by in EU. Thanks for the recommendations though, will look for availability on both again later on.


----------



## joebobbilly

Listening to the Gumby from a cold start it was already clear it was a different DAC. Even after not listening for the 1-2 weeks down time when it was being upgraded, it was quite obvious that it was different from the D/S gungnir that I was so familiar with (owned for 4-5 years). As it has warmed up in the last 2 days it has "opened up"... initially it was a bit laid-back and "shy", but now the sound has fleshed out and filled in nicely. The biggest difference really is similar to many impressions here... much more spatial and tonal realism with resolution... especially from FLAC rips of CDs.

Gonna give it a few more days to see if the sound will change more and then spend some time familiarizing with the Gumby before I post more detailed impressions. But so far... it's quite a treat


----------



## RCBinTN

Nyerk said:


> Both BHA-1 and Black Widow seem like good candidates, but hard to come by in EU. Thanks for the recommendations though, will look for availability on both again later on.


I can give a thumbs up to the BHA-1.  It's been my only amp for a couple years now, and I love it.  Solid as a rock and very transparent.  Not bright for a SS amp.  Very powerful.  My GMB / BHA-1 combination is very nice at the price point.

I've heard many good comments about the Mjolnir2 but have no personal experience - it gives the option of rolling tubes, if you're into that.  Both the BHA-1 and Mjolnir2 are fully balanced, which is what you want with the Gumby.

Good luck on the search!
RCB


----------



## Wailing Fungus

For any UK Head-Fier's, the price of Gungnir Multibit on Schiit.eu.com is now £1100, down from £1260.


----------



## artur9 (May 8, 2017)

I ordered mine.  Can't wait but must....

Update: Shipped!  Yay!


----------



## Rowethren

Wailing Fungus said:


> For any UK Head-Fier's, the price of Gungnir Multibit on Schiit.eu.com is now £1100, down from £1260.



I had noticed it went up which I posted to Jason on his thread, glad it has gone back down again.


----------



## artur9 (May 12, 2017)

Got my delivery notice for my Gumby and ran home and plugged it in.  Can't let it get too nippy now, can we?

Of course, I gave it a quick listen before going back to work. 

Versus my Uberfrost, right out of the box, I could hear that the violin on Mutter's Claire de Lune (sp?) sounded like it was made of wood.  Never noticed that before and I've been listening to that track for a week straight (love it, obviously).  Kind of a woody resonance that the Uberfrost didn't reveal.

For other things it just sounded a little more detailed, a bit sharper/crispy/biting.  Maybe images a bit more well-defined.  But I only had a few minutes to listen.

Even cold it's a nice upgrade.  Dunno that the premium over the Uberfrost is there with it cold but even the Uberfrost improves with a day or so of warmup.  Can't wait for the Gumby to blossom a little more.

This is via Gumby XLR into (pseudo-balanced) Odyssey Stratos XLR.  Gumby is fed via coax from the digital output of my preamplifier.

Edit:  

A few hours of warm up later and it seems like a different DAC.  Its ability to separate instruments is kind of amazing.  Listening to Joshua Bell's Tchaikovsky Mediation in D there seemed to be like a 1/2 dozen more instruments playing that I hadn't heard before.

Also seems a bit drier than the Uberfrost.  Reverbs have a more definite silhouette, if that makes any sense.


----------



## joeexp

Give it a week or so.


----------



## artur9

joeexp said:


> Give it a week or so.



Yeah, it's changing and definitely for the better.  After about 20h the soundstage is way taller than the Uberfrost's.  Listening to the Cars Why Can't I Have You the clapping on the right hand side sounds much more like clapping than I remember it sounding before.  And this is a song I listen to very often.

I am a bit surprised at the _kinds_ of differences the Gumby is making.

I always thought the "it gets better" vibe was overblown.  But now...


----------



## vulcanprime

Yea it looks like keeping the Gumby nice and warm for the entire time seems like the best bet. I was wondering if leaving the Gumby on and the Schiit Wyrd on the entire time is ok?


----------



## theveterans

I leave both USB isolator and DAC on all the time


----------



## RCBinTN (May 13, 2017)

artur9 said:


> Yeah, it's changing and definitely for the better.  After about 20h the soundstage is way taller than the Uberfrost's.  Listening to the Cars Why Can't I Have You the clapping on the right hand side sounds much more like clapping than I remember it sounding before.  And this is a song I listen to very often.
> 
> I am a bit surprised at the _kinds_ of differences the Gumby is making.
> 
> I always thought the "it gets better" vibe was overblown.  But now...



A fun ride, isn't it!  Now, keep it warm all the time, and the SQ will be consistently great from session to session.  Enjoy your music!

ps. I also found (when I upgraded from Gungnir to GMB) that the realism of the music was much better - the instruments sound real now. It's amazing with jazz drumming, where the drums and cymbals sound analogue. And, acoustic guitar is superb.

Cheers,
RCB


----------



## UntilThen

RCBinTN said:


> A fun ride, isn't it!  Now, keep it warm all the time, and the SQ will be consistently great from session to session.  Enjoy your music!
> 
> ps. I also found (when I upgraded from Gungnir to GMB) that the realism of the music was much better - the instruments sound real now. It's amazing with jazz drumming, where the drums and cymbals sound analogue. And, acoustic guitar is superb.
> 
> ...



I had wanted to try the Denafrips Ares initially but now am interested in the Gumby instead. Lots of favourable reviews here. My music collection are mainly flac files ripped from my 300 plus CDs. I also subscribed to Tidal Hifi. For source I use both an iMac 27" and a new Windows 10 PC, using Audirvana Plus 3 and JRiver Media Centre 22 respectively.

Was also thinking of the Yggy but now I think I will get a Gumby and with the savings, a HD800 too.


----------



## artur9

I considered the Denafrips but I liked/trusted the Schiit warranty more.  Plus I really like how Jason/Mike make their equipment sound.  I have had some other DACs through here and, well, icepicks in the ear compared to Schiit's stuff.


----------



## UntilThen

artur9 said:


> I considered the Denafrips but I liked/trusted the Schiit warranty more.  Plus I really like how Jason/Mike make their equipment sound.  I have had some other DACs through here and, well, icepicks in the ear compared to Schiit's stuff.



When you've it burn in, I'd like to hear what you characterise the Gumby sound as... warm, neutral or bright. Since out of the box you say that it's drier sounding than the Uberfrost.


----------



## JerryLeeds

I know this isn't the correct forum but I just got a New Yggdrasil to go with my Gumby ... sound so far it is great 

But the Yggdrasil has a loose screw rolling around inside case ... it is on the bottom under the circuit board   

Does any one know the best way to open the case? I tried one time with my Gumby to upgrade the usb card and I had a bad experience... I think I went in the wrong way


----------



## jcn3

UntilThen said:


> When you've it burn in, I'd like to hear what you characterise the Gumby sound as... warm, neutral or bright. Since out of the box you say that it's drier sounding than the Uberfrost.



i've had a gumby for over 18 mo so its quite burned-in.  the gumby is not bright at all -- very neutral, imo.  great texture and soundstage -- great platform from which to build a system.  from there you can get the sound you want with your headphones/speakers (highest impact) or amplifier.


----------



## RCBinTN

UntilThen said:


> I had wanted to try the Denafrips Ares initially but now am interested in the Gumby instead. Lots of favourable reviews here. My music collection are mainly flac files ripped from my 300 plus CDs. I also subscribed to Tidal Hifi. For source I use both an iMac 27" and a new Windows 10 PC, using Audirvana Plus 3 and JRiver Media Centre 22 respectively.
> 
> Was also thinking of the Yggy but now I think I will get a Gumby and with the savings, a HD800 too.



Sounds like a great plan to me. 
Enjoy your music!


----------



## RCBinTN

jcn3 said:


> i've had a gumby for over 18 mo so its quite burned-in.  the gumby is not bright at all -- very neutral, imo.  great texture and soundstage -- great platform from which to build a system.  from there you can get the sound you want with your headphones/speakers (highest impact) or amplifier.



I agree 100%. Upgrading to the Gungnir MB was the best decision I've made in this hobby.  The SQ is great.


----------



## RCBinTN

JerryLeeds said:


> I know this isn't the correct forum but I just got a New Yggdrasil to go with my Gumby ... sound so far it is great
> 
> But the Yggdrasil has a loose screw rolling around inside case ... it is on the bottom under the circuit board
> 
> Does any one know the best way to open the case? I tried one time with my Gumby to upgrade the usb card and I had a bad experience... I think I went in the wrong way



Personally, I would contact Nick at Schiit Audio.


----------



## artur9 (May 15, 2017)

UntilThen said:


> When you've it burn in, I'd like to hear what you characterise the Gumby sound as... warm, neutral or bright. Since out of the box you say that it's drier sounding than the Uberfrost.



Sure.  That'll be like a week or so.  I think late Friday I'll keep the family up by "playing at orchestral levels" some of my tunes for review purposes 

At the moment, the new thing I'm noticing with Uberfrost versus Gumby is that the Gumby's noise floor is way lower than the Uberfrost's.  I feel like I can hear the audience breathing on some of my live albums.  I tell my wife that I hear an air conditioner so she doesn't think I've gone round the bend...

Update: after another day
Last night I noticed that on David Bowie's Without You the Gumby is doing something interesting to the drum work.  I cannot describe what.  Making it sound more hollow more percussion-y?  On China Girl it makes the cymbal work sound more delicate than I remember it sounding.

At the same time it makes each individual instrument easier to follow.   The balance of the instrument in the mix remains the same but I can follow the bass or the drums without concentrating too hard and losing the sense of the entire piece.  It's like the Uberfrost blended all the instruments together somewhat.


----------



## JerryLeeds

JerryLeeds said:


> I know this isn't the correct forum but I just got a New Yggdrasil to go with my Gumby ... sound so far it is great
> 
> But the Yggdrasil has a loose screw rolling around inside case ... it is on the bottom under the circuit board
> 
> Does any one know the best way to open the case? I tried one time with my Gumby to upgrade the usb card and I had a bad experience... I think I went in the wrong way




Got a return shipping label today just for a loose screw ... well back to using my Gumby ... I did not even have a chance to do my own comparisons... 

Schiit that Yggdrasil is so much heavier ... at first I was reluctant to get it but I needed a dac for a second setup and I might be keeping the new baby for my headphone setup and put the Gumby back in my living.


----------



## RCBinTN

Yes, for sure the Yggy is a different animal than the GMB.  Needs a dedicated, stable space - it's not easily moved around.  I move my GMB every time that I setup my rig, but it's only a few pounds.  The Yggy is much heavier.  Just FWIW...


----------



## artur9

I was stunned the first time I saw an Yggy.  It was so much bigger than I expected.  That's when I stopped dithering between the Gumby and the Yggy.


----------



## artur9

My Gumby continues to change.  Today I noticed on my Cars tracks that images are more pinpoint, especially the guitars.  

No, I don't think that's the right way to describe it.  It's more like the players are in a more defined space, as if the sound were emanating from an instrument versus a pair of speakers.  Kind of freaky.

Switching to Mutter's Clair de Lune I really feel that I can almost touch her violin.

Oddly enough, the music seems quieter today than previously.  That's strange.


----------



## RCBinTN

artur9 said:


> My Gumby continues to change.  Today I noticed on my Cars tracks that images are more pinpoint, especially the guitars.
> 
> No, I don't think that's the right way to describe it.  It's more like the players are in a more defined space, as if the sound were emanating from an instrument versus a pair of speakers.  Kind of freaky.
> 
> ...



IMO, it seems quieter because the GMB is breaking in - it's becoming more resolving of the actual music.  With more time it will get mellower, less bright, and more accurate.  Again, a fun ride.  I think it's cool you are listening to music through the process to hear the changes for yourself.  I did it that way, too, and was amazed at how the music's SQ changed with time.

Happy listening,
RCB


----------



## artur9 (May 20, 2017)

Last night's and this morning's impressions.

The envelope of notes seem more well-defined - they appear to have a more definite start/stop nature to them.  Makes their reverb/echo seem to have less overhang.  This appears to me to be one of the ways that Gumby has more detail - new notes come into being on their own without being overshadowed by previous notes.  On the other hand, this also makes the sound somewhat leaner.

Another way Gumby exposes details is by being so quiet on its own.  It's blackness, so to say, as opposed to emphasizing some frequencies for fake details.  Makes it really easy to follow a specific player.

Sounds are more articulate, I can understand what Kei$ha is saying better.  Some of the recordings, like Kei$ha and Lady Gaga, sound more fake because the voices and instruments are too big.  They take up the whole wall instead of being focused like the Cars or a high quality Classical recording.

The music seems slower, which is a little odd.  Listening to one of my classical pieces I'm used to the cadence being a..a..a and now it sounds like a....a....a.  Throws me a little bit.

Finally, the image height is smaller again. 

I like some of the new changes but I also like some of the sounds from a few days again.  Hoping that more aging will give me the best features of the week 

*Update: *I think one of my settings got changed on the preamp. (I blame the kids!).  See below and this would explain the lean-ness I heard.


----------



## RCBinTN

artur9 said:


> Last night's and this morning's impressions.
> 
> The envelope of notes seem more well-defined - they appear to have a more definite start/stop nature to them.  Makes their reverb/echo seem to have less overhang.  This appears to me to be one of the ways that Gumby has more detail - new notes come into being on their own without being overshadowed by previous notes.  On the other hand, this also makes the sound somewhat leaner.
> 
> ...



Are you keeping the Gumby hot (turned on) all the time?  Wow, that sounded weird.
I always keep the power on, only to the GMB not to the amp or anything else.  Not playing music, just powered on.  The GMB (and Yggy) benefits from a consistent temperature - the music SQ will be more consistent.  That's one of Mike's tips - and I've found it works really well.

Cheers,
RCB


----------



## artur9

Yep, has not been turned off since I got it.  I fully expect it to sound different tomorrow.


----------



## UntilThen

Well I set out to buy the Gumby today but walk out of the store with the Yggy instead because Gumby is sold out !!!

Now I'll never know how Gumby sounds like but Yggy hits the ground running and sounding amazing. I'm upgrading from NAD d1050 so no surprise that the difference is great even on the first listen. Thanks for all the recommendations on Gumby and invariably there's a lot of reference to Yggy here too. This is the real deal.


----------



## artur9

UntilThen said:


> Well I set out to buy the Gumby today but walk out of the store with the Yggy instead because Gumby is sold out !!!



That's awesome.  I got the Gumby because it's smaller and cheaper.  No room for an Yggy.

Just wait till it opens up.  Keep it powered on and you'll see.


----------



## artur9 (Jan 27, 2018)

Since the week is complete, I'll be finishing up my new Gumby sonic impressions.  I know the Yggy can take a few hundred hours to sound its best but I don't think the Gumby takes that long?

*Summary*:  Versus the Uberfrost more: articulate notes, textured bass, details galore and precision on percussion are what I notice the most.  Not bright at all, no fake details by overemphasizing the treble,  exceedingly neutral to me shading towards warm, maybe?  Downside is I didn't get the 6dB boost from XLR that I wanted because my amp is only pseudo-balanced (surprise to me!).  I use a (probably over-elaborate) 2-channel system, not headphones.

Yesterday I thought the Gumby sounded a bit lean and today it was sounding really bright.  So much so that I thought I might need to send it back.  But it was a setting on my preamp that got changed from Neutral to Open Air.  The Open Air setting shelves down bass below about 100Hz for those over-bass-ified recordings.  Resetting that back to Neutral and back to great sound again.  I don't know for a fact that setting was on yesterday but it is a possibility.

What this thing does for piano is incredible.  There's some piano on Holst's The Planets Uranus, towards the end, and it sounded so realistically tinkly, the way piano can, I was fascinated.  Similarly for cymbals, the splash I think it's called, is gorgeous sounding and not at all like hiss-y noise, and when the cymbal rings the reproduction is stellar.

As I mentioned before, how the Gumby articulates notes is one of its best features.  Everything starts and stops on a dime which really brings out noticeably more detail.  I think this also gives bass more texture than is usually heard as well.   I get the sense of a bass pluck having some internal structure that I didn't hear before.  When the drummer is tapping the side of the drum with his drumstick the sound is sharp, wooden and instantaneous (if you know  what I mean).  That tapping is really fun to hear.

The black background also helps a great deal with getting more details from the music.  It may or may not be the blackest background according to the Internets but it is black enough for my equipment.

In terms of involvement, hearing Bowie's China Girl  through the Gumby really brings out the emotion in his voice and in me.  The realism in his voice and other singers is palpable.

This was a very good upgrade over my UberFrost and well worth the wait to gather the necessary funds.  Now to listen to other parts of my library because both me and my family are getting sick of hearing the same tunes over and over!

*Equipment*:  I listen through Vienna Acoustics Haydn Grand Commemorative Edition speakers powered by Odyssey Audio Stratos mono blocks (old ones).  Preamp is a Lyngdorf DPA-1 which acts as a crossover and its coax digital output feeds the Gumby.

My chain is far from bit-perfect.  I feed a Bryston BDP-1 via MinimServer which is upsampling lower bitrate recordings to 96Khz because otherwise the Lyngdorf would do that and I trust software more than an old DSP chip.  The volume is controlled digitally by the Lyngdorf as well so more not-bit-perfect-ness there as well.

Finally, I use RoomPerfect to address some room acoustical issues.  More not bit perfect there as well.

As the Lyngdorf is doing crossover/bass-management I don't think I got the "Moffat bass" that people talk about.  On the other hand, the texture of the bass I got was out of this world!  No one-note bass from this DAC, that's for sure.

I've  had the UberFrost for over a year, and the non-upgraded Bifrost before that.  The recordings I listened to are the things I play the most and I usually listen to at least one of them once a week so very familiar with their sound.  That being said, I didn't back-to-back, DBT against the UberFrost because its RCA outputs would be an aggravation to swap in and out.  No level balancing either other than ensuring that all my preamp settings were the same and the volume number was the same.

*Disclaimers:  *My ears (which are old and somewhat dysfunctional).my tastes (which tends to acoustic instruments), my equipment (mostly bought used and therefore suspect), and finally the voices in my head that tell me to buy more stuff.  But the Gumby gets along with all of that so I am good!

I hope someone out there finds this blabber useful.  If not, I apologize for wasting your time.


----------



## UntilThen

@artur9  glad you're getting excellent results with Gumby. As for me, Yggy is intoxicating. After a week, resolution and clarity is stunning. I'm burning in Yggy and HD800 at the same time. 

Like you, I too find Yggy's pitch black background a contributing factor to the great tone I'm hearing. Bass is another area that I find remarkable. Soundstage is expansive.

I'm just too lazy to post any lengthy impression now because I can't stop listening to music !


----------



## joeexp

Gumby SQ is about 95% that of the Yggy at half the price and size.
I challenge anybody to be able to tell the difference. Particularly if the Gumby is fed from a non-USB source ...


----------



## daddyo1973

joeexp said:


> Gumby SQ is about 95% that of the Yggy at half the price and size.
> I challenge anybody to be able to tell the difference. Particularly if the Gumby is fed from a non-USB source ...



Well looks like I made the right choice on the Gungnir Multibit then , mine just arrived yesterday. 

Care to elaborate more on the non-USB source input?  I know the Schiit guys in general are not fans of USB but they seem to have either worked things out or gave in to the demands of the consumer.  USB of course was my intention for the Gugnir, but if I move things around I could make the optical out on my iMac work but that then brings other things into play.


----------



## pctazhp

daddyo1973 said:


> Well looks like I made the right choice on the Gungnir Multibit then , mine just arrived yesterday.
> 
> Care to elaborate more on the non-USB source input?  I know the Schiit guys in general are not fans of USB but they seem to have either worked things out or gave in to the demands of the consumer.  USB of course was my intention for the Gugnir, but if I move things around I could make the optical out on my iMac work but that then brings other things into play.



I'm not an Apple person, but think optical from iMac may not be the way to go. I think I read that from Mike Moffat somewhere. Also, USB seems to be Mike's least favorite input on Schiit DACs. I suggest you take a look at this: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product..._sfl_title_8?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER  It probably is the cheapest way of avoiding USB completely and creating a clean SPDIF coax source for your Gumby. I just got my card yesterday and it is a significant improvement with my Bimby. It has an SPDIF pass-though function that avoids the card's own DAC/Amp. I appears to be very well shielded. It has a solid audiophile feel to it, and unlike the much more expensive Lynx card, uses power directly from the computer power supply, avoiding noise that may be present on the motherboard.

Most people who use the ASUS board seem to use it for it's DAC/Amp function, and most people who try to find ways of feeding SPDIF to Schiit DACs seem to not consider the ASUS card, preferring much more expensive Digital to Digital Converters (which convert UST to SPDIF). But even though DCCs still start with USB. The ASUS card completely avoids it. And I can attest that it is a significant improvement to this https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-xeme2ve-usb-to-spdif-digital-interface/ - which in turn was a significant improvement to just straight USB, even with a fancy USB cable from my PC to Bimby. 

I'm pretty sure you won't find another person on HeadFi who will recommend the ASUS card for use with a Schiit DAC, but that doesn't necessarily my advice is bad. I seriously doubt there is an alternative way of feeding good clean (low jitter) SPDIF data to Schiit DAC at anywhere close to the cost of the card.


----------



## artur9

daddyo1973 said:


> Well looks like I made the right choice on the Gungnir Multibit then , mine just arrived yesterday.
> 
> Care to elaborate more on the non-USB source input?  I know the Schiit guys in general are not fans of USB but they seem to have either worked things out or gave in to the demands of the consumer.  USB of course was my intention for the Gugnir, but if I move things around I could make the optical out on my iMac work but that then brings other things into play.



USB seems to put a bit of fuzz into everything.  On the other hand, cleaning that up to make it the equal of other choices can get crazy expensive.  On the gripping hand, some digital music can only be played over USB, like DSD and DXD.

The fuzz that USB adds seems to originate with noise riding along on the USB power lines.  At least, that's the current operating theory for people going down that rabbit hole.

It could be in your system things are clean enough that you won't have to worry about it.  It's worth trying both the optical and USB to see which you like better.


----------



## pctazhp

artur9 said:


> USB seems to put a bit of fuzz into everything.  On the other hand, cleaning that up to make it the equal of other choices can get crazy expensive.  On the gripping hand, some digital music can only be played over USB, like DSD and DXD.
> 
> The fuzz that USB adds seems to originate with noise riding along on the USB power lines.  At least, that's the current operating theory for people going down that rabbit hole.
> 
> It could be in your system things are clean enough that you won't have to worry about it.  It's worth trying both the optical and USB to see which you like better.



I read a post or review (can't remember which) where the author described what he heard from USB as a woooooooshing sound. That is consistent with my experience.


----------



## daddyo1973

Well after I figure out which tubes to use in my amp this whole USB optimization thing (or toslink, or SPDIF or BNC) may be the next thing to tackle on my audio to do list.  Seems there is always something....


----------



## theveterans

^ Just skip USB altogether and get the Rednet 3 AOIP


----------



## artur9

theveterans said:


> ^ Just skip USB altogether and get the Rednet 3 AOIP


That or a streamer box with no USB out.  Like the hifi berry.  Loving my Bryston BDP so get one of those used and cheap.


----------



## NightFlight

My USB must be very clean. I burned a FLAC to CD for comparing SPDIF on my DVP-S7000 vs USB.  With a 30 second lag to flip between the two - I can't really pick up a difference.  Optical on the Schiit stuff won't lock at 24/192 - never had an issue with my Emotiva XDA-2 regardless of Toslink cable used. 

I also did a similar experiment with a couple singled ended RCA cable pairs that I previously thought couldn't be be more different from each other. Since the gumby has two single ended outputs I hooked them both up to my Mainline's 2 inputs. Flipping directly across from input to input has taught me just how similar they actually sound. They *might* be slightly different, but identify them blind? No way.


----------



## winders

NightFlight said:


> My USB must be very clean. I burned a FLAC to CD for comparing SPDIF on my DVP-S7000 vs USB.  With a 30 second lag to flip between the two - I can't really pick up a difference.  Optical on the Schiit stuff won't lock at 24/192 - never had an issue with my Emotiva XDA-2 regardless of Toslink cable used



TOSLINK is only slightly better than USB. You need to use S/PDIF coax (BNC is better than RCA) to get a clearly better signal.


----------



## NightFlight

The Toslink is out as it won't lock on higher bit rates. 

I was comparing my DVP-S7000 as an RCA coaxial transport against USB with the same recording. I'd have to do more listening tests, as it was just a random burned CD I had in the drive.  But if you really have to strain to *maybe* hear a difference between really good and really good... then where is this train headed?


----------



## winders

NightFlight said:


> The Toslink is out as it won't lock on higher bit rates.
> 
> I was comparing my DVP-S7000 as an RCA coaxial transport against USB with the same recording. I'd have to do more listening tests, as it was just a random burned CD I had in the drive.  But if you really have to strain to *maybe* hear a difference between really good and really good... then where is this train headed?



If you can't hear the difference between USB and SPDIF coax, consider yourself lucky because you will be spending less on gear! When using my Mimby, I always stick a Singxer F-1 in front of it. Why would I put a ~$250 device in front a $250 device? Because feeding Mimby USB really sucks!


----------



## pctazhp

winders said:


> If you can't hear the difference between USB and SPDIF coax, consider yourself lucky because you will be spending less on gear! When using my Mimby, I always stick a Singxer F-1 in front of it. Why would I put a ~$250 device in front a $250 device? Because feeding Mimby USB really sucks!



I have found using the unique SPDIF pass-though function of this soundcard (which completely eliminates USB) significantly improves SQ over use of USB with my Bimby: I run directly from the SPDIF coax output of the card to the SPDIF Coax input of Bimby. 

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product..._sfl_title_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


----------



## Gimpinchair

pctazhp said:


> I have found using the unique SPDIF pass-though function of this soundcard (which completely eliminates USB) significantly improves SQ over use of USB with my Bimby: I run directly from the SPDIF coax output of the card to the SPDIF Coax input of Bimby.
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product..._sfl_title_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER



That is going to be difficult to stuff into my Intel NUC!


----------



## artur9

Gimpinchair said:


> That is going to be difficult to stuff into my Intel NUC!


You just need a bigger hammer! ;-D

On other news, listening to Carly Simon's live album the Gumby is making the stage fill the whole room.  It's kind of mesmerizing.


----------



## RCBinTN

Interesting discussion about digital feeds into the GMB.  I have a similar problem.

My source is a Macbook Pro (mid-2014) running JRiver22.  I've set the Mac programs to manual, so they don't interrupt the USB.
I have two direct options into the GMB: USB and Toslink.  There is nothing between the computer and the DAC - a straight shot.  I tried a Wyrd for awhile but got tired of it - and why should I need a damn Wyrd anyway?

So, I purchased high-end cables.  The USB is Wywires Platinum, the Toslink is AQ Diamond.  Top of the line.

I started with the USB. I had heard that USB would provide good SQ.  It does sound really good, but it's inconsistent.  At times, the music stops in the middle of an album, usually between songs, then the GMB freezes and JRiver has to be restarted.  This happens with no change in music bit rate, just between songs on the same album.

I got tired of that problem and switched to the Toslink.  Now, there are no issues w/ music drop-outs, and the SQ is similar to the USB.  I've now settled on the Toslink as my primary link.

However, I continue to hear that there are better options out there...that's my reason for writing this post.  Do y'all have any other (better) options that I might pursue?  I appreciate your help, as always.

Best regards,
RCBinTN


----------



## winders

USB sucks and TOSLINK is not much better. The "damn" Wryd's job is clean up the crappy USB signal coming out the laptop. There are plenty of devices out there that attempt to do that with some being better than others. My experience tells me that these uber expensive USB/TOSLINK cables are a waste of money. Get a quality cable, yes! But don't spend over $100. Go to BlueJeans or Straight Wire for cables.

For Gumby, the best you can do is SPDIF coax. BNC is ever so slight better than RCA. With my Yggy, I use a Singxer F-1 DDC (converts USB to SPDIF coax). I think the Singxer F-1 handles the USB crap better than Yggy does so the sound quality is improved bypassing Yggy's USB interface.


----------



## UntilThen

winders said:


> With my Yggy, I use a Singxer F-1 DDC (converts USB to SPDIF coax). I think the Singxer F-1 handles the USB crap better than Yggy does so the sound quality is improved bypassing Yggy's USB interface.



I'm debating on your suggestion of getting a Singxer F1 for my Yggy or a Asus Essense STX ii card or a bigger expense Lynx AES16e .... or do nothing, continue using USB until Schiit comes up with a better solution. I just want something simple. My source is an iMac 27" (Audirvana Plus 3) and a new PC running Windows 10 and using JRiver Media Center 22.

I know USB isn't the best option but it's sounding very good to me now. Flip to Toslink and I couldn't hear much difference.  However with USB, I did experience JRiver hangs as described by @RCBinTN. Doesn't happen now though.

Btw Yggy sounds incredible. Was using a NAD d1050 previously. The difference is great.


----------



## cskippy

Schiit is going to come out with something digital related.  Just wait a bit, should be after Vidar releases sometime in the Summer/Fall.


----------



## UntilThen

cskippy said:


> Schiit is going to come out with something digital related.  Just wait a bit, should be after Vidar releases sometime in the Summer/Fall.



Ah thank you. I'll wait then.


----------



## daddyo1973

Ok, I am going to test the waters on this USB converting thing and will try a Gustard U12 to feed my Gumby.  Should be here in a day or two from Amazon.  I'll take a listen and report back on that vs. my current feed which is an AQ Jitterbug -> Cardas Clear USB -> Gumby.  I got the AQ jitterbug after talking with a friend who uses like three devices to scrub/de-jitter/clock/convert his USB feed into a DAC.   He made me seem a fool if I did not at least so something with my USB signal.  That was a while ago and while I can't say it was ever a sonic improvement, I've never had any problems feeding any DAC off my iMac via USB since I've used it.


----------



## winders

UntilThen said:


> I'm debating on your suggestion of getting a Singxer F1 for my Yggy or a Asus Essense STX ii card or a bigger expense Lynx AES16e .... or do nothing, continue using USB until Schiit comes up with a better solution. I just want something simple. My source is an iMac 27" (Audirvana Plus 3) and a new PC running Windows 10 and using JRiver Media Center 22.
> 
> I know USB isn't the best option but it's sounding very good to me now. Flip to Toslink and I couldn't hear much difference.  However with USB, I did experience JRiver hangs as described by @RCBinTN. Doesn't happen now though.
> 
> Btw Yggy sounds incredible. Was using a NAD d1050 previously. The difference is great.



My plan is to migrate away from USB completely. I will soon be buying a AOIP streamer/end point that outputs AES/EBU (and SPDIF). Then I won't need device like the Singxer F-1 to "fix" USB...thank God!!


----------



## artur9

Would it be possible to change your sources from a Mac to something that is natively Coax/BNC/AES?


----------



## Tom Blake

For me the combination of a microRendu and UpTone Audio LPS-1 power supply into the Gumby completely solved all my USB gremlins. Of course that's nearly a $1K combination. The microRendu is served by a dedicated Win10 box as my RoonCore (see my sig). My main PC has an ASUS Essence STX II in it that is supplying the Gumby with a coax SPDIF signal. That sounds much better than straight USB from that machine, but not as good as the mircroRendu from the dedicated server.


----------



## UntilThen

artur9 said:


> Would it be possible to change your sources from a Mac to something that is natively Coax/BNC/AES?



I suppose the question was directed at me. I'm staying with my PC and when I want to, use the iMac occasionally. With the PC, I could get the ASUS Essence Stx II (coax) or the Lynx AES16e (AES). I don't feel in a hurry now as I am hearing great tones using just USB. So aside from the 2 options, I could wait for Schiit to implement something.


----------



## Tom Blake

I can vouch for the Essence STX II working well with my Gumby via coax SPDIF. Like I said though I do prefer the microRendu via USB into the Gumby, albeit at much higher cost. The ASUS card was definitely better than straight USB out of that PC. I had really bad problems with dropouts and distorted sounds on occasion from the mobo USB ports, That's went sent me down the rat hole of the ASUS sound card and then the microRendu. USB can certainly sound very good if you throw enough money at it. Long term I am very interested in the ethernet-based protocols like Ravenna.


----------



## UntilThen

Tom Blake said:


> I can vouch for the Essence STX II working well with my Gumby via coax SPDIF. Like I said though I do prefer the microRendu via USB into the Gumby, albeit at much higher cost. The ASUS card was definitely better than straight USB out of that PC. I had really bad problems with dropouts and distorted sounds on occasion from the mobo USB ports, That's went sent me down the rat hole of the ASUS sound card and then the microRendu. USB can certainly sound very good if you throw enough money at it. Long term I am very interested in the ethernet-based protocols like Ravenna.



Yeah I heard from friends who have use the ASUS card, saying it's much better than USB for Bimby and Gumby. This is probably the cheaper option using coax. Also heard from a friend who has a Yggy that the microRendu with Uptone Audio LPS-1 is very good but is expensive. That said person finally sold the microRendu + Uptone LPS and bought a Lynx AES16e, feeding AES straight into Yggy. The feedback I got was that both microRendu and Lynx sounded the best of all the options, with the Lynx being cheaper and bypassing USB completely.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Has anyone heard or know about Simaudio's Network Streamer? Im thinking about using it to replace the computer in one of my two setups (home office or living room)



Mobile link below

http://m.simaudio.com/en/product/106-network-streaming-music-player.html


----------



## artur9 (Jun 4, 2017)

JerryLeeds said:


> Has anyone heard or know about Simaudio's Network Streamer?
> http://m.simaudio.com/en/product/106-network-streaming-music-player.html



That's was considered a very good device, excellent even, when it came out.  But I think it's a bit dated now.  Has it been revised since it came out?

Personally, my used Bryston BDP-1 is the best purchase I've made in the USB cleaner, network streamer, arena.


----------



## JerryLeeds

New model just came out in January 2017


----------



## RCBinTN

Thanks All for the great ideas.  Appreciate the help, as always.  Head-Fiers are the Schiit.

The option that seems to make sense for me is Singxer F-1 between the Macbook Pro (USB) and the GMB (RCA-RCA or RCA-BNC).  I don't have a dedicated space to keep my rig, so must assemble the components each time I want to listen.  That's the reason I didn't like the Wyrd - it needs an external power source.  Amazon has the Singxer for US $180.

@winders am I correct the Singxer needs only USB power? Are you using RCA-RCA or RCA-BNC from the Singxer to your Yggr?  I went to BlueJeans' site and they seem very knowledgable about digital cables.  Thanks for your help!  Wish now I'd found this type of solution long ago...

BTW, I did hear an improvement in SQ when I upgraded my Toslink cable - from AQ Evergreen to AQ Diamond.  But overall the USB - Singxer F-1 - RCA is a less expensive solution.

Cheers,
RCB


----------



## jcn3 (Jun 4, 2017)

RCBinTN said:


> @winders am I correct the Singxer needs only USB power? Are you using RCA-RCA or RCA-BNC from the Singxer to your Yggr?  I went to BlueJeans' site and they seem very knowledgable about digital cables.  Thanks for your help!  Wish now I'd found this type of solution long ago...



You are correct -- the Singxer F-1 is usb powered!  Mine is powered by the LPS-1 via an ISO Regen.  The combo makes things very smooth, refined, organic.


----------



## winders

RCBinTN said:


> @winders am I correct the Singxer needs only USB power? Are you using RCA-RCA or RCA-BNC from the Singxer to your Yggr?  I went to BlueJeans' site and they seem very knowledgable about digital cables.  Thanks for your help!  Wish now I'd found this type of solution long ago...
> 
> BTW, I did hear an improvement in SQ when I upgraded my Toslink cable - from AQ Evergreen to AQ Diamond.  But overall the USB - Singxer F-1 - RCA is a less expensive solution.





jcn3 said:


> You are correct -- the Singxer F-1 is usb powered!  Mine is powered by the LPS-1 via an ISO Regen.  The combo makes things very smooth, refined, organic.



Yes, as jcn3 states, the Singxer F-1 gets its power from the USB Vbus. I am using a RCA-RCA coax cable. I have used this setup with and without the ISO Regen powered by an LPS -1. It sounds great without the ISO Regen but it sounds better with.  In your situation, RCB, I would stick with the simple configuration since you have to setup it up and tear it down all the time. Bypassing Yggy's seems to be a good thing to my ears. For those with a Gumby, it should make an even bigger difference since the USB hardware is better on Yggy.


----------



## pctazhp

Can't speak about Gumby - hopefully will be able to soon. In the meantime I can say this works wonders on Bimby and entirely by-passes USB:


----------



## Tom Blake

pctazhp said:


> Can't speak about Gumby - hopefully will be able to soon. In the meantime I can say this works wonders on Bimby and entirely by-passes USB:


Works on Gumby also


----------



## UntilThen

As my flacs files were ripped from my 300+ CDs, I connected my CD player via coax to Yggy.... and yeah this is it. Much better. 

So for convenience, I've my PC and CD player connected to Yggy and I have 2 sources to choose from.

Next to try Yggy in the main stereo system.... but not before I've clocked 100 days.


----------



## daddyo1973

Received my Gustard U12 earlier today, gotta love Amazon Sunday delivery!  

I got things connected and just let a playlist run for about 3 hours before sitting down for a listen.  Up to now my digital feed was an iMac->AQ Jitterbug->Cardas Clear USB->Gumby.  Now after the Cardas Clear its a Gustard U12->AQ Cinnamon SPDIF digital coax->Gumby.

So I am not the best at describing these things but everything just seems more clear.   As much as I hate the saying, a slight veil has been lifted. One that I never knew was there until now.  

The biggest difference so far though is the low level detail retrieval, I can really listen deep into my favorite recordings now.


----------



## Gimpinchair

Those of you who own the Gugnir, would this DAC along with the Mjolnr 2 be overkill with the HE-400I & the Nightowl Carbon?


----------



## rnros

Gimpinchair said:


> Those of you who own the Gugnir, would this DAC along with the Mjolnr 2 be overkill with the HE-400I & the Nightowl Carbon?



Absolutely not. It is a beautiful and capable pairing of DAC and Amp. It will serve your present and future headphones!


----------



## Gimpinchair

rnros said:


> Absolutely not. It is a beautiful and capable pairing of DAC and Amp. It will serve your present and future headphones!



Thanks for your response!


----------



## artur9

I didn't think _overkill_ was a concept in this hobby


----------



## rnros

artur9 said:


> I didn't think _overkill_ was a concept in this hobby



LOL


----------



## artur9

I have had my Gumby for almost exactly 2 months now.   I have been noticing over the last few days that it's become less forward(?).  

The soundstage has receded into the front wall in a very interesting way.  I did move my speakers around some but I don't think that can account for the effect I'm hearing.  I'm listening to Bach Cello Suites and the instrument seems to be embedded a foot into the wall.


----------



## a44100Hz

artur9 said:


> I have had my Gumby for almost exactly 2 months now.   I have been noticing over the last few days that it's become less forward(?).
> 
> The soundstage has receded into the front wall in a very interesting way.  I did move my speakers around some but I don't think that can account for the effect I'm hearing.  I'm listening to Bach Cello Suites and the instrument seems to be embedded a foot into the wall.


Do you leave your Gumby on 24/7? If not, start doing that. If so, flip it off and on, it's rare but sometimes they bug out a little bit and need to be reset. If that doesn't do it, it's most likely an odd room effect from moving your speakers. The character of the Gumby doesn't shift around after it's been on for 24 hours or so.


----------



## artur9

a44100Hz said:


> Do you leave your Gumby on 24/7? If not, start doing that. If so, flip it off and on, it's rare but sometimes they bug out a little bit and need to be reset. If that doesn't do it, it's most likely an odd room effect from moving your speakers. The character of the Gumby doesn't shift around after it's been on for 24 hours or so.


I do leave the Gumby on 24/7 and the effect I described isn't unpleasant.  I rather like it, actually.   It adds a bit of depth to the soundstage.  Not a lot, mind, just enough to be auditorily interesting as the sound seems to originate from just behind my center speakers.

IME, the Gumby, brand new, did change some after 24 hours, as I described earlier in this thread.


----------



## cishida

Hooked my Gumby up to my new Mjolnir 2. It really is a wonderful combination. Had been using a Bimby.

This goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway, the Gumby really is a great DAC. It has an ease and naturalness that the Bimby can lack. And it seems to be less picky of source material.


----------



## cishida

artur9 said:


> I do leave the Gumby on 24/7 and the effect I described isn't unpleasant.  I rather like it, actually.   It adds a bit of depth to the soundstage.  Not a lot, mind, just enough to be auditorily interesting as the sound seems to originate from just behind my center speakers.
> 
> IME, the Gumby, brand new, did change some after 24 hours, as I described earlier in this thread.



I noticed the Gumby change over a period of weeks. Granted, the most dramatic changes happen at the beginning and then become more subtle.


----------



## davewolfs

artur9 said:


> That's was considered a very good device, excellent even, when it came out.  But I think it's a bit dated now.  Has it been revised since it came out?
> 
> Personally, my used Bryston BDP-1 is the best purchase I've made in the USB cleaner, network streamer, arena.


And then Google created a $35 bit perfect Chrome Cast Audio


----------



## artur9

davewolfs said:


> And then Google created a $35 bit perfect Chrome Cast Audio


I'm sorry, are you trying to make me feel bad in some way because I only needed to spend $35 instead of the, to you, unknown amount I spent on the BDP-1?

In any case, I like that I can control the BDP like a CD player.  Is the Chrome Cast controllable by anything other than an app?  And touchscreen don't like my fingertips so I avoid them like the plague...


----------



## Charente

Up till now, I have been using GMB's USB input fed by a microRendu (+Uptone LPS-1) and it does give good results. However, reading comments by @Baldr @winders and others, over the last couple of months or so, about the merits of GMB's S/PDIF input, or S/PDIF in general, persuaded me to give this approach a try. I managed to source a European version of the Singxer F-1 (it's called the Armature Hercate over here ... note to Head-Fiers in Europe), for a reasonable price of €209. The SQ difference is quite a bit better than USB on the GMB to my ears. Powering the Hercate with the Uptone LPS-1 gave even more improvements and I've been listening to this in preference to USB. A positive and worthwhile experiment.


----------



## connieflyer

I had used usb in my older dacs and discovered that coax out of my Asus Essence stx II audio card gave me much better resolution without as much noise. When I bought the Gumby tried both and settled on the Coax feed. Very quite and neutral.  I like the Asus card as it has it's own connection to the power supply and doesn't have as much noise as getting power from the motherboard directly. It also uses quality parts that are well shielded.  I tried the Denafrips Ares for a short time and returned it, not nearly as good as the Gumby. This is a very good piece of equipment and has a great value, cost to performance.


----------



## Tom Blake

Anyone doing the Gen 5 USB update? I sent my Gumby in today. Will post on impressions when I get it back.


----------



## daddyo1973

I just settled in with a Singxer SU-1 feeding my Gumby about a month ago.  When I first saw the announcement today I was sure I was going to pull out the wallet and get in line, but, I think I am going to wait and see how this plays out.


----------



## ETanner

I've had a new Gumby/Mjolnir 2 combo for a couple of weeks now. I'm feeding the USB with the microRendu and find it very acceptable. Listening thru my HD 800s reveals a nice black background and no noise that I can discern.


----------



## connieflyer

Tom Blake said:


> Anyone doing the Gen 5 USB update? I sent my Gumby in today. Will post on impressions when I get it back.


I did not send mine in as I thought the cost was too high for the unit to be repaired and shipped so I bought the slightly cheaper Standalone unit but it wasn't until later on in his blog that he said that they were going to send out the boards to be self installed in the show in the near future had I known that I would have waited got the card and it just install it myself but he didn't say that at first I already ordered the stand-alone unit I want to test this against the coax coming off the Asus sound card and see which one is better if this one isn't as good or better and it's going back so if you don't want to send your dick in you have two choices either by the Standalone unit or wait until they have boards ready to ship and just install it yourself that would have been my choice had I known it was going to be available during the block he said it was not it was going to have to be shipped so at any rate good luck with it I think it'll be a worthwhile thing to have right now coax sounds better than USB so if they can straighten out the USB and have it a coax output that should be pretty good time will tell


----------



## jurumal

Looking forward to comparisons between USB Gen 5 vs. Eitr


----------



## cskippy

The benefit of the uSB Gen 5 and the upgrade board is that you don't have to use an extra power outlet and there are less connections with one less cable.  Plus it's integrated into your DAC.  Otherwise they offer the same function and improvements.


----------



## ETanner

ETanner said:


> I've had a new Gumby/Mjolnir 2 combo for a couple of weeks now. I'm feeding the USB with the microRendu and find it very acceptable. Listening thru my HD 800s reveals a nice black background and no noise that I can discern.


While my USB is of the older generation I'm pleased with what I've been hearing. That said, I've being offered a return exchange with a waived fee so I can reorder a Gen 5 unit.

Schiit makes it very easy to relax and trust their good intentions to put the best and most affordable audio products into our hands. For me this adds up to more enjoyment and pleasure.


----------



## sayitaintsoap

How's the non-multibit version of the gungnir sound? I see it uses the AKM 4399 Dac? Going by numbers alone, that sounds worse the 4490 that's in the much cheaper Modi and Fulla 2 units. Am I wrong in that?

I was thinking of getting the standard Gungnir for $850 rather than the Bifrost Multi for $600 and then getting the Multibit upgrade down the line.


----------



## JerryLeeds (Jul 19, 2017)

Anyone know where I can get a short 6 or 8 inch SPDIF Coaxial RCA cable? 

Want to get the EITR for a secondary setup with a Modi Multibit... I already have a 1 foot cable ... just wanted a real short one


----------



## jurumal (Jul 19, 2017)

sayitaintsoap said:


> How's the non-multibit version of the gungnir sound? I see it uses the AKM 4399 Dac? Going by numbers alone, that sounds worse the 4490 that's in the much cheaper Modi and Fulla 2 units. Am I wrong in that?
> 
> I was thinking of getting the standard Gungnir for $850 rather than the Bifrost Multi for $600 and then getting the Multibit upgrade down the line.


I've heard the whole Schiit line-up at CanJam SoCal this year and I personally own a Schiit Gungnir D-S. What I can remember is the Modi having a thinner sound compared to Bifrost and Gungnir. I remember immediately enjoying the Bifrost on first listen before I was blown away by the super-black backround and resolution of the Gungnir. I didn't know my T50RP could sound as amazing as it does with the Gungnir!


----------



## wonderbrah

jurumal said:


> I've heard the whole Schiit line-up at CanJam SoCal this year and I personally own a Schiit Gungnir D-S. What I can remember is the Modi having a thinner sound compared to Bifrost and Gungnir. I remember immediately enjoying the Bifrost on first listen before I was blown away by the super-black backround and resolution of the Gungnir. I didn't know my T50RP could sound as amazing as it does with the Gungnir!



Thanks! So did you prefer the gungnir D-S over the M-B or did you settle for the former like i am thinking due to cost? Also, how did everything compare to the Yiggy? Was it hands down the best sounding of the bunch or was it questionable?


----------



## wonderbrah (Jul 19, 2017)

Oops wrong thread.


----------



## jurumal (Jul 19, 2017)

Honestly, at the time I didn't know there was a MB version of the Gungnir. I'm actually hitting up the Schiitr tomorrow so I can decide if it is worth the upgrade to MB. About the Yggy, I just remember enjoying the sound of the Gungnir more. Maybe Yggy was too cold for me? Or maybe it was the Ragnarok I wasn't feeling? I'll give Yggy a listen again tomorrow too.


----------



## connieflyer

This is the cable I bought for my use.......https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CICPTHC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 work very well.


----------



## jurumal

Just got back from the Schiitr. Got a chance to try products with the USB Gen 5 upgrade. Just a heads up for MacOS and iOS users, USB Gen 5 doesn't play well with them. When connecting with the DACs with upgrade, there was no sound even though the player was in "Play". I tried disconnecting and re-connecting cables and restarting programs. Occasionally, I'll get it to work on my iPhone, but it won't be consistent. I told the Schiit attendant about it and he tried to troubleshoot, but no solutions thus far. I'm hoping this is just an isolated incident?


----------



## jurumal

sayitaintsoap said:


> How's the non-multibit version of the gungnir sound? I see it uses the AKM 4399 Dac? Going by numbers alone, that sounds worse the 4490 that's in the much cheaper Modi and Fulla 2 units. Am I wrong in that?
> 
> I was thinking of getting the standard Gungnir for $850 rather than the Bifrost Multi for $600 and then getting the Multibit upgrade down the line.



Unfortunately, I was not able to spend enough time with the Gumby as I would've liked because of the USB Gen 5 issues, so I still can't make a good comparison to the D-S version. From the little that I heard though, I think the D-S has a signature close to Bimby, where vocals are more forward. Gumby's got a signature that's even through the spectrum (like the Yggy imo). Vocals will blend in evenly with the instruments. I also think D-S has a warmer tilt compared to the MB. Not necessarily meaning MB is cold.


----------



## Boogie7910

Hello, I just bought the Gumby along with Jotunheim and Focal Elears.  I have no experience with balanced setups.  What xlr cables should be used from dac to amp?  Is there a preferred cable or will cheapo ones be just as good?  Also will I need a new balanced cord for the Focal Elears?  Thanks


----------



## rkw

Boogie7910 said:


> What xlr cables should be used from dac to amp?  Is there a preferred cable or will cheapo ones be just as good?


Schiit's own XLR cables are reasonably priced: http://schiit.com/products/pyst-cables


Boogie7910 said:


> Also will I need a new balanced cord for the Focal Elears?


Get a balanced cable for the Elear if you want to run it in balanced mode. It is optional and don't _need_ to do it, but the Jotunheim delivers higher power from its balanced outputs and you might get higher quality sound. Or it might not make a difference if the single-ended output is already adequate.


----------



## rmoody

Tom Blake said:


> Anyone doing the Gen 5 USB update? I sent my Gumby in today. Will post on impressions when I get it back.



I put my order in on release day, but I'm also going from DS to MB. I got my Gungnir used with USB Gen 1 and DS. I stole the USB Gen 2 from my Bimby. I've still not received notice to ship mine. I guess I'm at the end of the line since I'll need my board reprogrammed for MB.

I'll put the Gen 3 back in the Bimby, probably won't ship that in for upgrade, I'll wait for them to ship DIY or get Eitr. I may just get Eitr just because. If nothing else I can put it on SWMBO's stack. She's bot my Modi 2 Uber/Magni 2 Uber stack. I wonder if this could possibly trickle down to the Modi?


----------



## Charente

JerryLeeds said:


> Anyone know where I can get a short 6 or 8 inch SPDIF Coaxial RCA cable?
> 
> Want to get the EITR for a secondary setup with a Modi Multibit... I already have a 1 foot cable ... just wanted a real short one



Not personally an 'expert', but I have read that one should consider a minimum length of 1.5 mtrs for S/PDIF coax to avoid 'reflections' on short lengths. I'm not sure in practice how this manifests itself, but thought it might be worth mentioning for your consideration...

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm


----------



## Eldair

Have anyone compare Gungnir mb vs 2qute? My friend is selling 2qute and i´m not sure  is it good deal. He ask 900€ about it.


----------



## RCBinTN

Tom Blake said:


> Anyone doing the Gen 5 USB update? I sent my Gumby in today. Will post on impressions when I get it back.



I decided to wait, for now, but will be Very interested in impressions about the Gen 5 USB!


----------



## RCBinTN

Just catching up and noticed some questions about Schiit DAC progression.
My progression was: BiFrost --> Gungnir --> Gungnir MB.
The first rig was BiFrost/Asgard2. Was very happy with it.
Then I decided to go balanced. 
The second rig was Gungnir/Mjolnir1. Was very happy with it.
Then Schiit announced the MB technology...upgrade the Gungnir for $500. I jumped on it.
An amazing improvement in SQ. The MB technology is the real deal folks.
Nothing against the first two rigs, but I'm not looking back. To me, the Gungnir MB is perfect. 
I've heard the Yggdrasil at HP meets around Nashville. It sounds great - perhaps a bit more resolving than the GMB (perhaps two bits, no pun intended).

IMO, the GMB is a great value for a superb DAC.

Hope this helps,
RCB


----------



## deserat

In case anybody is interested. I put the  USB gen 5 upgrade to my Gumby. It's a pretty substantial upgrade. Had no idea what I was missing before the upgrade.  Better resolution, dynamics, imaging.  Didn't think that was possible.


----------



## Tom Blake

deserat said:


> In case anybody is interested. I put the  USB gen 5 upgrade to my Gumby. It's a pretty substantial upgrade. Had no idea what I was missing before the upgrade.  Better resolution, dynamics, imaging.  Didn't think that was possible.


I agree! I just got my Gumby back and am definitely hearing more details in my key demo tracks. Well worth the $150 upgrade cost plus 2-way shipping. Schiit turned it around door to door in a week. Very happy with it and nice to be on the same USB interface level as the Yggy now.


----------



## Boogie7910

I haven't gotten my Gumby yet because it's backordered but I read a review that ranked the inputs as follows in terms of SQ and I was wondering if anyone else here has had similar results.

BNC> RCA SPDIF>optical SPDIF>USB

http://passionforsound.lachlanfennen.com/schiit-gungnir-multibit-dac-meet-gumby/

I don't have a BNC output on my computer but this review leads me believe it would be a good upgrade. Thoughts?


----------



## deserat

Boogie7910 said:


> I haven't gotten my Gumby yet because it's backordered but I read a review that ranked the inputs as follows in terms of SQ and I was wondering if anyone else here has had similar results.
> 
> BNC> RCA SPDIF>optical SPDIF>USB
> 
> ...



I've not tried bnc or rca spdif. I couldn't tell the difference between USB and Optical when I was running the HDVA 600 in front of the Gumby. But now that I've got the Mainline ( superior amp by far )  it might be worth trying. I think I've still got my optical cable laying around will ping back tomorrow evening.


----------



## cskippy

Boogie7910 said:


> I haven't gotten my Gumby yet because it's backordered but I read a review that ranked the inputs as follows in terms of SQ and I was wondering if anyone else here has had similar results.
> 
> BNC> RCA SPDIF>optical SPDIF>USB
> 
> ...


Do yourself a favor and grab a Schiit Eitr.  USB>Coax SPDIF.  It beats most converters regardless of price.


----------



## Boogie7910 (Aug 1, 2017)

cskippy said:


> Do yourself a favor and grab a Schiit Eitr.  USB>Coax SPDIF.  It beats most converters regardless of price.



I have an optical out already so won't be using usb.  Mainly I wanted to know if people had the same experience as the reviewer with the bnc connection being superior .


----------



## Charente

I tried everything except BNC ... don't have it at source. IME S/PDIF coax beats USB hand down ... it's not a 'slight' difference, either. GMB's USB Gen 5, I understand, is a big improvement over Gen 2. Optical wasn't the same difference ... I'd say it was a small improvement. I'm currently using a Singxer F-1 (equivalent) USB-S/PDIF coax converter and this gives very good results in my setup (see sig). I have ordered the EITR, rather than upgrade the GMB at this stage ... it may even beat the F-1 but if not, it will also serve duty with another setup I have in the office. Shame the EITR doesn't output BNC but I guess that could be a more limited market and would increase cost/price and perhaps might not fit the small-factor case.


----------



## cskippy

Don't worry about BNC with Eitr.  Coax is fine.  You can get a coax to BNC converter but at that point it's just more stuff in the signal path.  Eitr is the Schiit, literally.  My only complaint with it is it has a slight audio delay.  Very slight, most won't notice it but with competitive gaming and music creation I do.


----------



## alpovs

BNC *is* Coax. "The *BNC *(Bayonet Neill–Concelman) connector is a miniature quick connect/disconnect radio frequency connector used for *coaxial cable*." The signal uses the same S/PDIF protocol and goes to the same S/PDIF receiver based on the AKM 4113 chip. If you use a good 75 ohm impedance coaxial cable with the Coax input the results will be indistinguishable from using the BNC input. 

Because the Coax input uses a universal RCA socket some people use crappy not even coaxial cables and post here how crappy the sound is. Because it is practically impossible to find a crappy BNC cable all the posts about the BNC input are positive. Hence the presumption that the BNC input is superior to the Coax while they are the same.


----------



## deserat

cskippy said:


> Do yourself a favor and grab a Schiit Eitr.  USB>Coax SPDIF.  It beats most converters regardless of price.



If the Gumby hasn't shipped yet, it will come with Gen 5 USB, no need for Eitr.


----------



## Charente (Aug 1, 2017)

alpovs said:


> BNC *is* Coax. "The *BNC *(Bayonet Neill–Concelman) connector is a miniature quick connect/disconnect radio frequency connector used for *coaxial cable*." The signal uses the same S/PDIF protocol and goes to the same S/PDIF receiver based on the AKM 4113 chip. If you use a good 75 ohm impedance coaxial cable with the Coax input the results will be indistinguishable from using the BNC input.
> 
> Because the Coax input uses a universal RCA socket some people use crappy not even coaxial cables and post here how crappy the sound is. Because it is practically impossible to find a crappy BNC cable all the posts about the BNC input are positive. Hence the presumption that the BNC input is superior to the Coax while they are the same.



Agreed ...  this is to me the one area where the quality and spec of cable IS truly important, the RCA S/PDIF Coax.


----------



## Peti

alpovs said:


> BNC *is* Coax. "The *BNC *(Bayonet Neill–Concelman) connector is a miniature quick connect/disconnect radio frequency connector used for *coaxial cable*." The signal uses the same S/PDIF protocol and goes to the same S/PDIF receiver based on the AKM 4113 chip. If you use a good 75 ohm impedance coaxial cable with the Coax input the results will be indistinguishable from using the BNC input.
> 
> Because the Coax input uses a universal RCA socket some people use crappy not even coaxial cables and post here how crappy the sound is. Because it is practically impossible to find a crappy BNC cable all the posts about the BNC input are positive. Hence the presumption that the BNC input is superior to the Coax while they are the same.



Some common sense is always welcome around here! Big thanks for sharing this.


----------



## RCBinTN

Boogie7910 said:


> I haven't gotten my Gumby yet because it's backordered but I read a review that ranked the inputs as follows in terms of SQ and I was wondering if anyone else here has had similar results.
> 
> BNC> RCA SPDIF>optical SPDIF>USB
> 
> ...



I think what you wrote about the quality of digital connections is consistent with what Mike @Baldr had posted earlier.
On top at #1 would be the AES/EBU, but only Yggy supports that, not Gungnir.

Personally, I am using an optical connection, and happy with it.

With the launch of the Gen 5 and Eitr, however, USB may leap ahead of optical into 3rd place.
I think if you are able to use BNC/RCA, which are almost the same, then use them.

Since my source is a Mac computer, I don't have the BNC/RCA option unless I use an intermediate converter. Therefore, the toslink.


----------



## Baldr

RCBinTN said:


> I think what you wrote about the quality of digital connections is consistent with what Mike @Baldr had posted earlier.
> On top at #1 would be the AES/EBU, but only Yggy supports that, not Gungnir.
> 
> Personally, I am using an optical connection, and happy with it.
> ...



It goes something like this today:  BNC about equals Coax about equals Gen 5 USB>TOS>>Gen 3 USB.  "About equals" means close to very close with tradeoffs.


----------



## artur9

I wish all stereos had BNC connectors instead of the annoying RCA.  No loose connections that way.

@Baldr, tradeoffs?


----------



## PolarBehr

artur9 said:


> I wish all stereos had BNC connectors instead of the annoying RCA.  No loose connections that way.
> 
> @Baldr, tradeoffs?



I worked in the broadcast industry for a while back when a lot of BNC connectors where used for analog video. They are much more reliable and robust than RCA connectors but to state no loose connections is not correct. I saw a lot of BNC connectors with sloppy tolerances and a lot that had faulty and intermittent cable to connector assembly. BNC connectors do not solve all cable issues. A lot of time was spent chasing faulty cable connections.


----------



## cskippy

If you are looking for RCA or coax SPDIF cables, Blue Jeans Cable connectors have a good grip for a solid connection.


----------



## jcn3

Boogie7910 said:


> I haven't gotten my Gumby yet because it's backordered but I read a review that ranked the inputs as follows in terms of SQ and I was wondering if anyone else here has had similar results.
> 
> BNC> RCA SPDIF>optical SPDIF>USB
> 
> ...



Since the Gen 5 USB has come out and will come with your Gumby, that evaluation is obsolete.  Initial Gen 5 USB reviews from users are quite good -- on par with SPDIF.  Regarding AES vs SPDIF vs BNC, here are Jason's comments regarding the differences.


----------



## alpovs

If anyone needs more details on the differences among AES, BNC, S/PDIF they are super easy to find: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF#Hardware_specifications
AES has the highest signal output level (7V), then BNC (1.2V), then Coax (0.6V); max cable lengths - 100m, 1000m, 10m respectively. AES and BNC were designed for professional applications where one would need to run hundreds of meters of cable (concerts, large studios etc.), S/PDIF - for consumer applications. If your AES, BNC, coaxial cable is under 10m of length there should be virtually no difference.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Sorry, I have a stupid question... 

I have an older Gundnir ... which was already upgraded to a multibit

My older case only has three 'feet' in a triangular pattern. Do the newer versions of the Gundnir come with 4 'feet'

Thanks


----------



## Delayeed

JerryLeeds said:


> Sorry, I have a stupid question...
> 
> I have an older Gundnir ... which was already upgraded to a multibit
> 
> ...


Bought mine new 1-2 months ago and it has 3 feet


----------



## pctazhp

JerryLeeds said:


> My older case only has three 'feet' in a triangular pattern. Do the newer versions of the Gundnir come with 4 'feet'



http://www.geom.uiuc.edu/~wanous/part3.html


----------



## Baldr

JerryLeeds said:


> Sorry, I have a stupid question...
> 
> I have an older Gundnir ... which was already upgraded to a multibit
> 
> ...


Nope


----------



## Orky261

Ordered my Gumby from my local Schiit distributor, website say Gumby ordered now will be delivered in the week after 10th of August, considering I'm in Asia plus shipping and everything is it possible that I will get it around the end of August?


----------



## jcn3

Orky261 said:


> Ordered my Gumby from my local Schiit distributor, website say Gumby ordered now will be delivered in the week after 10th of August, considering I'm in Asia plus shipping and everything is it possible that I will get it around the end of August?



I'd contact your distributor directly and ask them . . .


----------



## cheungtsw

Is Gungnir (non multibit) better than Bifrost Multibit?


----------



## Charente

I'm hazarding a guess (IOW I don't know) but I would say not.


----------



## deserat

cheungtsw said:


> Is Gungnir (non multibit) better than Bifrost Multibit?



That's a difficult question. I know people who prefer D/S to Multibit sound so they would probably say yes. But then you also have to consider a number of other things on top off that. Are the electronics in the Gungir higher quality than those in the Bifrost ( I'd hazard to say yes give price diff ). Last, do you need or want a push pull balanced system, or BNC in? Lastly what are you listening through and on. You won't be able to hear the difference if you plug in a CMOY amp and a set of Beats.  But if you have a clean enough AMP and Good headphones... well I own the Multibit versions of both the Bifrost and the Gungir and they are different class of DAC. If money was the issue, I'd buy the D/S Gungir and upgrade to multibit later.


----------



## joeexp

cheungtsw said:


> Is Gungnir (non multibit) better than Bifrost Multibit?



NO - not with Gen 5 USB!


----------



## cheungtsw

joeexp said:


> NO - not with Gen 5 USB!



USB5 is available on both if order now.


----------



## bmanone

deserat said:


> That's a difficult question. I know people who prefer D/S to Multibit sound so they would probably say yes. But then you also have to consider a number of other things on top off that. Are the electronics in the Gungir higher quality than those in the Bifrost ( I'd hazard to say yes give price diff ). Last, do you need or want a push pull balanced system, or BNC in? Lastly what are you listening through and on. You won't be able to hear the difference if you plug in a CMOY amp and a set of Beats.  But if you have a clean enough AMP and Good headphones... well I own the Multibit versions of both the Bifrost and the Gungir and they are different class of DAC. If money was the issue, I'd buy the D/S Gungir and upgrade to multibit later.



deserat,
I currently have a Bifrost multibit and am considering upgrading to the multibit Gungnir, would you say the Gungnir is significantly better than the Bifrost using the single ended outputs?
Thanks!


----------



## raybone0566

bmanone said:


> deserat,
> I currently have a Bifrost multibit and am considering upgrading to the multibit Gungnir, would you say the Gungnir is significantly better than the Bifrost using the single ended outputs?
> Thanks!


Yes, I had bimby & then upgraded to gumby. Gumby is significantly better.


----------



## deserat

bmanone said:


> deserat,
> I currently have a Bifrost multibit and am considering upgrading to the multibit Gungnir, would you say the Gungnir is significantly better than the Bifrost using the single ended outputs?
> Thanks!



Yes. I use the  Gumby Single Ended into a Bottlehead Mainline, everything about it is a step up from the Bimby.  I used to use the Gumby Balanced into and HDVA 600, the Mainline sounds better even though it's SE - so I'd have a hard time saying that the SE outputs are degraded compared to the balanced outputs. I've run the Bimby through the mainline as well, I know it's hard to believe but compared to the Gungir the Bifrost sounds congested and artificial. The one place I'd say the Bifrost wins is when listening to heavily compressed music - which is most of the internet, Netflix, YouTube... the compression artifacts aren't as apparent in the Bifrost. No hate intended for the Bifrost, honestly I'd say for 80% of the time I'm listening I wouldn't notice a difference ( which is why I use the Bifrost at  work ) . But when I actually want to actively engage... Gungir all the way.


----------



## bmanone

deserat said:


> Yes. I use the  Gumby Single Ended into a Bottlehead Mainline, everything about it is a step up from the Bimby.  I used to use the Gumby Balanced into and HDVA 600, the Mainline sounds better even though it's SE - so I'd have a hard time saying that the SE outputs are degraded compared to the balanced outputs. I've run the Bimby through the mainline as well, I know it's hard to believe but compared to the Gungir the Bifrost sounds congested and artificial. The one place I'd say the Bifrost wins is when listening to heavily compressed music - which is most of the internet, Netflix, YouTube... the compression artifacts aren't as apparent in the Bifrost. No hate intended for the Bifrost, honestly I'd say for 80% of the time I'm listening I wouldn't notice a difference ( which is why I use the Bifrost at  work ) . But when I actually want to actively engage... Gungir all the way.


Thanks for your response it will weigh heavily on my decision.  Have you thought about upgrading to the Yggdrasil?


----------



## deserat

bmanone said:


> Thanks for your response it will weigh heavily on my decision.  Have you thought about upgrading to the Yggdrasil?



Glad to be of service. I've thought about moving up to the Yggy but as you might have noticed the cost of Schitt DACS increases exponentially - I'm just not willing to drop that kind of coin on an experiment.  I've heard it in meet settings and  wasn't really able to distinguish the difference between Ragnarok/Yggy and Mjolnr/Gungir ... granted that's with a  bunch of people moving and talking.  At some point I'll make a trip up to the SchittR do a more concentrated listening session but I really have a hard time envisioning anything better than my current stack. Well the HE-1, it's better, but not 40k better.


----------



## jcn3

bmanone said:


> Thanks for your response it will weigh heavily on my decision.  Have you thought about upgrading to the Yggdrasil?



i recently upgraded from a gumby to a yggy.  didn't have a chance to do a side by side comparison.  however, i will tell you that the gumby is very, very good and i don't think the differences between the two are huge in my system.


----------



## artur9

I've heard Yggy at shows and the differences weren't too apparent to me.  But it is also much larger than the Gumby and that I found noticeable!


----------



## deserat

artur9 said:


> I've heard Yggy at shows and the differences weren't too apparent to me.  But it is also much larger than the Gumby and that I found noticeable!



Yggy - as heavy as the World Tree. Ragnarok - The end of Deskspace.


----------



## cheungtsw

deserat said:


> Glad to be of service. I've thought about moving up to the Yggy but as you might have noticed the cost of Schitt DACS increases exponentially - I'm just not willing to drop that kind of coin on an experiment.  I've heard it in meet settings and  wasn't really able to distinguish the difference between Ragnarok/Yggy and Mjolnr/Gungir ... granted that's with a  bunch of people moving and talking.  At some point I'll make a trip up to the SchittR do a more concentrated listening session but I really have a hard time envisioning anything better than my current stack. Well the HE-1, it's better, but not 40k better.



Good u can try it out.  No such luck here this part of the world.


----------



## captkirk

Forgive the question, and would have search the thread if possible, but can y'all advise if you lose on performance (_subjective I know_) on running the Gumby SE?

I have balanced amps at the moment, but the next amp purchase will either be a MJ2 or some-other SE OTL (_powering a HD6xx and a pending ZMF Atticus_), and I'm struggling if the SE out of the Gumby will hold-up to a MJ2?

SE OTLs in consideration: 

ampsandsounds Kenzie
Decware CSP3
Feliks Elise

Thanks for your input.


----------



## JerryLeeds

I am pretty sure MJ2 has both single and balanced inputs ... I am using the balanced from a Gumby into MJ2

Unless I am wrong about what you mean by MJ2


----------



## captkirk

JerryLeeds said:


> I am pretty sure MJ2 has both single and balanced inputs ... I am using the balanced from a Gumby into MJ2
> 
> Unless I am wrong about what you mean by MJ2



Sorry for the confusion, I'm trying to determine if running the MJ2 balanced from the Gumby would hold-up to it's SE performance to a relative end-game SE OTL....


----------



## deserat (Aug 8, 2017)

I used to run the Gungir Balanced into and HDVA 600, I now run SE into a Bottlehead Mainline.  My cable run is 24 inches  The Mainline sounds better than the HDVA 600.... so if the SE is degraded in anyway it's not enough to care about if at least not in my experience or at the cable length I'm using.


----------



## Charente (Aug 8, 2017)

captkirk said:


> Forgive the question, and would have search the thread if possible, but can y'all advise if you lose on performance (_subjective I know_) on running the Gumby SE?
> 
> I have balanced amps at the moment, but the next amp purchase will either be a MJ2 or some-other SE OTL (_powering a HD6xx and a pending ZMF Atticus_), and I'm struggling if the SE out of the Gumby will hold-up to a MJ2?
> 
> ...



GMB to MJ2 via SE is absolutely fine IMO, unless you have headphones that might benefit from balanced all the way. My HD650 certainly benefitted and that's the only reason I went balanced.


----------



## captkirk

So I currently have a Jot and Cavalli LC.  I'm struggling to decide between the two, but that's a different topic.  

I guess I'll need to run the Gumby both balanced, and SE.  If I can''t hear a big difference (_to me_) then I won't continue to worry if a MJ2, strictly for it's balanced capability, performs better than the previously mentioned SE OTLs.


----------



## cskippy

Considering your main headphone is a warm one, I would go with the Jot.  I had both and sold the Carbon.  Balanced from Gumby isn't that much better.  MJ2 is another story due to it's topology, it's balanced by design and is intended to be run that way.  Single ended is there more for convenience.


----------



## captkirk

I


cskippy said:


> Considering your main headphone is a warm one, I would go with the Jot.  I had both and sold the Carbon.  Balanced from Gumby isn't that much better.  MJ2 is another story due to it's topology, it's balanced by design and is intended to be run that way.  Single ended is there more for convenience.



I'm thinking the same thus far, in respect to the Jot and LC.  The sound differences are subtle, but there.  Considering the HD6xx and the warmish Atticus, the Jot is likely to stay in the stable.

With respect to my above comment, I'm planning on running the SE and balanced into the Jot or LC to determine if I can hear the difference, _of the DAC output_.

Ultimately, I'm wondering if MJ2>Balanced>Gumby performs better than "X" OTL >SE>Gumby.  I was just wondering from y'all if the balanced output blows the SE away. 

_Admittedly, after reading my posts, and this one thus far, it seems to be a terrible question to try to answer.  Only my ears will be able to provide one.  _​


----------



## cskippy

I can tell you I'm perfectly content using single ended from Gumby to Eddie Current Zana Deux.  I also have a Jensen PC2XR XLR to RCA converter and while there is a "tightening" of the bass and possibly an increase in detail retrieval, I prefer the fuller sound of the single ended output of Gumby sans Jensen transformers.


----------



## Ninadada

deserat said:


> Glad to be of service. I've thought about moving up to the Yggy but as you might have noticed the cost of Schitt DACS increases exponentially - I'm just not willing to drop that kind of coin on an experiment.  I've heard it in meet settings and  wasn't really able to distinguish the difference between Ragnarok/Yggy and Mjolnr/Gungir ... granted that's with a  bunch of people moving and talking.  At some point I'll make a trip up to the SchittR do a more concentrated listening session but I really have a hard time envisioning anything better than my current stack. Well the HE-1, it's better, but not 40k better.


I'm in a similar boat.  I currently own Mimby and Bimby feeding a Jot and HD650/Mr.Speaker AEON.  I'm curious what improvements if any i'd experience with Gumby.  
Using a scale of 1-20, with Mimby at 10, Yggy at 20, where would you place Bimby and Gumby?  From the reviews I've read, consistent with yours, it seems Gumby might be a 19.  Reviews of Bimby seem much less consistent, perhaps falling anywhere from a 12-15 in relation to the other MB DACS.  I'm curious where others would place Bimby and Gumby relative to Mimby and Yggy using this scale.


----------



## deserat

Ninadada said:


> I'm in a similar boat.  I currently own Mimby and Bimby feeding a Jot and HD650/Mr.Speaker AEON.  I'm curious what improvements if any i'd experience with Gumby.
> Using a scale of 1-20, with Mimby at 10, Yggy at 20, where would you place Bimby and Gumby?  From the reviews I've read, consistent with yours, it seems Gumby might be a 19.  Reviews of Bimby seem much less consistent, perhaps falling anywhere from a 12-15 in relation to the other MB DACS.  I'm curious where others would place Bimby and Gumby relative to Mimby and Yggy using this scale.



That's a tough question and really difficult to quantify. So much matters. Worse I've spent A year with the Bimby and Gumby and only a maybe 15 min with the Yggy and only a day with the Mimby and that was months ago.  Also, the chain in front of the DAC matters ALOT.  Am I correct is assuming the Jot is the Jotunheim? ( honestly it doesn't matter because I've not heard it for more than an hour ).  I can say this, if I had to give up my HD800 and use only my HD600 I'd give up the Gumby as well. The HD600 sounds better with the Gumby but it also loses alot of the improvement.  If I had to give up the Mainline and stick with the Lyr 2, SEX, or Crack, I'd also give up the Gumby.  I'm sure there are people that will disagree with that. Sorry I really wouldn't feel comfortable rating on a number scale unless I had a TOTL Amp, TOTL Heaphones ( matched to the amp ), and a week or two to listen.

Perhaps this will help. With the Bimby I don't care if I'm listening to Spotify ( Ogg 320K ) or FLAC. With the Gumby, I do.


----------



## captkirk

deserat said:


> Perhaps this will help. With the Bimby I don't care if I'm listening to Spotify ( Ogg 320K ) or FLAC. With the Gumby, I do.



Sorry... end of the workday, may be a little dense.

Not sure I follow.  Do you mean Bimby sounds good, "You're ok with that" and Gumby sounds exceptional, "You're loving it!"  ?


----------



## deserat

captkirk said:


> Sorry... end of the workday, may be a little dense.
> 
> Not sure I follow.  Do you mean Bimby sounds good, "You're ok with that" and Gumby sounds exceptional, "You're loving it!"  ?



Bimby sounds very good. Gumby sounds amazing.  I think I said in a slightly earlier post. 80% of the time when I'm listening it wouldn't matter which I was listening too. But when it's time for focused listening, the Gumby is what I want. 

Mimby, the reason I only heard it for a day, is I wanted my Bimby back. So the friend I exchanged with had to give me back my baby.


----------



## captkirk

deserat said:


> Bimby sounds very good. Gumby sounds amazing.  I think I said in a slightly earlier post. 80% of the time when I'm listening it wouldn't matter which I was listening too. But when it's time for focused listening, the Gumby is what I want.
> 
> Mimby, the reason I only heard it for a day, is I wanted my Bimby back. So the friend I exchanged with had to give me back my baby.




That clears it up. Makes sense.


----------



## Ninadada

Yes, Jot is Jotunheim.  I catch your drift.  We're working with a pretty small delta between the MB DACs to begin with that other components both up and down stream may widen or narrow that delta.  I appreciate the thoughtful and honest reply.  I too may just have to make the journey to the Schittr to hear for myself.  If not, just buy, try, and sell if no audible improvement.


----------



## captkirk

Ninadada said:


> If not, just buy, try, and sell if no audible improvement.



This is my plan.  I have a new-to-me Gumby being delivered today.  Will power and let rest until...say, Monday for a comparison to my Bimby.

If _I_ can't hear a difference, oh well.  I'll sell and move on to next want/need...


----------



## Ninadada

captkirk said:


> This is my plan.  I have a new-to-me Gumby being delivered today.  Will power and let rest until...say, Monday for a comparison to my Bimby.
> 
> If _I_ can't hear a difference, oh well.  I'll sell and move on to next want/need...


I look forward to hearing your feedback.  Please let us know your up and down stream equipment, input used, balance or SE out.  
To add another variable to the mix, the new Gen 5 USB is supposed to add further improvements, at least for those using USB in.


----------



## captkirk (Aug 10, 2017)

Ninadada said:


> I look forward to hearing your feedback.  Please let us know your up and down stream equipment, input used, balance or SE out.
> To add another variable to the mix, the new Gen 5 USB is supposed to add further improvements, at least for those using USB in.




Sure thing.

For reference, both the Bimby and Gumby are USB Gen 2. 

Up:
MacMini USB/Optical Tidal FLAC & for giggles, Sonos Connect Optical/Coax

Down:
Jot & Cavalli LC

HD6XX


----------



## deserat

captkirk said:


> Sure thing.
> 
> For reference, both the Bimby and Gumby are USB Gen 2.
> 
> ...




One thing I  can say with absolute certainty. Get Gen 5 USB.  It's a straight up upgrade to both systems.


----------



## captkirk

deserat said:


> One thing I  can say with absolute certainty. Get Gen 5 USB.  It's a straight up upgrade to both systems.



That's what I've been reading.

Depending on which DAC I keep, it's def. going back to Schiit for the upgrade.  With their install, it'll be nice knowing it's done right, and get a 2 year warranty on the entire DAC.  As I'm located in NorCal, the return shipping is totally worth it.


----------



## RCBinTN

For folks upgrading from the BiFrost to the Gungnir - and there seems to be many!
I recommend you try to go with balanced connections if possible.
The SQ will be better.
I've been there - I went from BiFrost to Gungnir to get my rig to balanced (including my amp).
Then I went Gungnir to GMB. Significant SQ upgrade.
For those buying a new GMB these days - what a great value. MB technology + Gen 5 USB for US$ 1,249. A great value for that price, IMO.

Enjoy your Music!


----------



## captkirk

I'm eager to hear it balanced for sure, but my next amp purchase is likely to be a SE OTL and I'm eager to hear the difference between the BMB &GMB SE.


----------



## Tompo88

Just ordered a Gumby to go with my jot. Can't wait to try it. Will be using lcd2, hd650 and fostex x00.


----------



## deserat

Congratulations!!!!!!!!


Tompo88 said:


> Just ordered a Gumby to go with my jot. Can't wait to try it. Will be using lcd2, hd650 and fostex x00.


----------



## captkirk

Tompo88 said:


> Just ordered a Gumby to go with my jot. Can't wait to try it. Will be using lcd2, hd650 and fostex x00.



I think you'll be pleased. 

I spent the weekend comparing my Bifrost MB to a recently acquired Gumby... it's was a _N I C E_ weekend.

Gumby > Jot > HD650 all balanced is sublime


----------



## Tompo88

captkirk said:


> I think you'll be pleased.
> 
> I spent the weekend comparing my Bifrost MB to a recently acquired Gumby... it's was a _N I C E_ weekend.
> 
> Gumby > Jot > HD650 all balanced is sublime



How did the comparison go? I was sitting here debating between bifrost and going straight to gumby. As stated, decided to just pull trigger on gumby.


----------



## eee1111 (Aug 27, 2017)

nm


----------



## captkirk

Tompo88 said:


> How did the comparison go? I was sitting here debating between bifrost and going straight to gumby. As stated, decided to just pull trigger on gumby.



It has been an enlightening experience.  I'm not deft at being able to communicate the sonic differences between the two DACs, and one person's "large soundstage" may be small to another's...so I'll steer clear of trying.

For me, the differences come down to perception.  The Gungnir MB envelopes me.  I feel immersed and connected to the music more so than I have before.  My Bifrost MB has a great level of detail and sounds very good, but I feel it's playing music at me, while the Gungnir MB is playing _around_ me.  

Both balanced and SE are very good.  The differences between the two are subtle and may be more or less apparent depending on the listener and all the variables up or down the chain.  They are there, but subject to each listener.  Would I appreciate the performance of the Gungnir MB without the balance capability?  Yes, without doubt.  Do I appreciate that it's balanced?  Heck yes!

For me, the Gungnir MB is simply better than the Bifrost MB.  I hear it.  I like it.  

Is it _worth_ it.  Not going to touch that one, because in all fairness, I'm still trying to figure that out.  Just because I appreciate the performance of the Gungnir doesn't answer the question.  That said, I look forward to trying to answer it.


----------



## theveterans

^ IMO a fully warmed up Bimby on COAX SPDIF gives the same feeling of music "playing around me" at least for my ears. But a balanced connection will always be "blacker" than SE due to better noise rejection


----------



## joeexp (Aug 16, 2017)

> ...But a balanced connection will always be "blacker" than SE due to better noise rejection ...



That Sir, is a load of nonsense...


----------



## pctazhp

I use the USB by-pass function of my ASUS soundcard to completely by-pass USB and feed my Bimby's spdif coax input. I get amazing results - surrounded by music that sounds wonderful. I am planning to get a Gumby soon, but at the moment I'm not quite sure why.

I agree that in a desktop setting (short runs) there is no technical reason why a balanced connection should be quieter than SE.


----------



## Ninadada

captkirk said:


> It has been an enlightening experience.  I'm not deft at being able to communicate the sonic differences between the two DACs, and one person's "large soundstage" may be small to another's...so I'll steer clear of trying.
> 
> For me, the differences come down to perception.  The Gungnir MB envelopes me.  I feel immersed and connected to the music more so than I have before.  My Bifrost MB has a great level of detail and sounds very good, but I feel it's playing music at me, while the Gungnir MB is playing _around_ me.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your fair, neutral, and realistic assessment.  I'd like to comment on music type as a factor in the "worth it" decision.  When I upgraded from the Jot w/ internal DAC to Jot + Bimby, the improvement was significant and immediately noticeable when listening to Jazz, vocals, soft rock, or music with mostly acoustic instruments, quiet passages, and a higher dynamic range.  By improvements, I'm referring mostly to increased sound stage width and separation between instruments.  When listening to synthesized or electronic music such as EDM and some new age tracks, or hard rock with electric guitars and few quiet passages, the improvement and the "worth it" factor was substantially lower and in many cases, imperceptible.  So for me, the type of music I plan to play through my rig the majority of the time would be a significant consideration.


----------



## captkirk

Ninadada said:


> I appreciate your fair, neutral, and realistic assessment.  I'd like to comment on music type as a factor in the "worth it" decision.  When I upgraded from the Jot w/ internal DAC to Jot + Bimby, the improvement was significant and immediately noticeable when listening to Jazz, vocals, soft rock, or music with mostly acoustic instruments, quiet passages, and a higher dynamic range.  By improvements, I'm referring mostly to increased sound stage width and separation between instruments.  When listening to synthesized or electronic music such as EDM and some new age tracks, or hard rock with electric guitars and few quiet passages, the improvement and the "worth it" factor was substantially lower and in many cases, imperceptible.  So for me, the type of music I plan to play through my rig the majority of the time would be a significant consideration.



Agreed.  My perceived level of improvement, from BMB to the GMB, has been heavily influenced by the music being played.


----------



## ETanner

Yesterday my Gumby came back from Schiit after they replaced it with the new Gen 5 model.  I had my Bimby sitting on the MJ 2 and decided to do some A-Bing after sliding the Gumby under the amp. I put a SYS between the DACs and the MJ2 input so I'd only need to swap the USB from the microRendu. 

Soon after they were hooked in I had this serious attitude come over me as I prepared to compare the sounds. First a few measures of the Bimby (Miles Davis I'm sure) then the Gungnir Multibit just out of the shipping box. I wasn't able to complete four minutes before my face unconsciously frowned in disappointment. The warm Bimby smoked its older sibling. I couldn't listen any more to this car radio like soundstage, all flat and lifeless. Yet twenty four hours later I was listening again to Ella James when my face just had a smile like I'd just seen an old friend. The upper end showed up--almost like someone invited the trebles to the party. Two hours later I had my eyes closed, listening to Nina Simone when I could have sworn she was singing in the chair across from me. Her voice was like a solid island in the center of black space. It had presence all its own, isolated in a sea of "no sound". 

Three surprises in less than 30 hours. Without a doubt the Bimby is a solid DAC and overwhelmingly better than a cold Gumby. But every time after that this Gumby  shifted gears it created separation beyond my expectations. Single voices became solid presences in a larger much darker sound stage. I know I'm a homer with this Schiit however the soundstage sounds more silent than the surrounding space in my listening room??? Like a canvas of black was thrown down and instruments applied. 

Such simply impressions and so much joy.


----------



## thedesigner2011

As someone who is debating between the MMB, BMB, and GMB, these posts are very helpful. One thing I'd like to ask is if people are volume matching between the warmed up GMB and warmed up BMB, and if not, how this changes the landscape? Thanks guys, happy listening.


----------



## RCBinTN

ETanner said:


> Yesterday my Gumby came back from Schiit after they replaced it with the new Gen 5 model.  I had my Bimby sitting on the MJ 2 and decided to do some A-Bing after sliding the Gumby under the amp. I put a SYS between the DACs and the MJ2 input so I'd only need to swap the USB from the microRendu.
> 
> Soon after they were hooked in I had this serious attitude come over me as I prepared to compare the sounds. First a few measures of the Bimby (Miles Davis I'm sure) then the Gungnir Multibit just out of the shipping box. I wasn't able to complete four minutes before my face unconsciously frowned in disappointment. The warm Bimby smoked its older sibling. I couldn't listen any more to this car radio like soundstage, all flat and lifeless. Yet twenty four hours later I was listening again to Ella James when my face just had a smile like I'd just seen an old friend. The upper end showed up--almost like someone invited the trebles to the party. Two hours later I had my eyes closed, listening to Nina Simone when I could have sworn she was singing in the chair across from me. Her voice was like a solid island in the center of black space. It had presence all its own, isolated in a sea of "no sound".
> 
> ...



That's why we leave it "on" all the time. The music will have consistent SQ for each listening session. No need to play music, just leave the AC power switched on. Keeps the internal components warm and ready.
Happy Listening!


----------



## RCBinTN

thedesigner2011 said:


> As someone who is debating between the MMB, BMB, and GMB, these posts are very helpful. One thing I'd like to ask is if people are volume matching between the warmed up GMB and warmed up BMB, and if not, how this changes the landscape? Thanks guys, happy listening.



I think that's a good question, but the GMB will win between the three DACs, for SQ. It is sublime.


----------



## ETanner

RCBinTN said:


> That's why we leave it "on" all the time. The music will have consistent SQ for each listening session. No need to play music, just leave the AC power switched on. Keeps the internal components warm and ready.
> Happy Listening!


Yes, I've had many happy years leaving my Schiit DACs on. And yet I was once again surprised to hear my Gumby sound so ordinary (or worse)  in the beginning only to be so nice 30 hrs later. It is also evident how good the Bimby is and still outclassed a day later.


----------



## thedesigner2011

RCBinTN said:


> I think that's a good question, but the GMB will win between the three DACs, for SQ. It is sublime.



I don't doubt the GMB will come out on top, but how much of the difference is due to greater volume is just a bar to set for myself. In an ideal world, I use the BMB on my desk and the Yggy for my 2.0 setup, but if even volume matching the BMB doesn't get in the ballpark of the GMB then that's too much left on the table for me, and I'll need a GMB for my desk.


----------



## ETanner

thedesigner2011 said:


> I don't doubt the GMB will come out on top, but how much of the difference is due to greater volume is just a bar to set for myself. In an ideal world, I use the BMB on my desk and the Yggy for my 2.0 setup, but if even volume matching the BMB doesn't get in the ballpark of the GMB then that's too much left on the table for me, and I'll need a GMB for my desk.


I will be using my Bimby and Valhalla 2  at my desk along with an HD600. My recent impressions comparing the two were with both DACs being run via RCAs into my Mjolnir 2 preouts and into the Vidar in stereo setup. I did switch to balanced outs with the Gumby into the MJ2 and Vidar for the vocal impressions. Until everything is settled in I'll not be doing headphone comparisons. The type of work I do at my desk seldom invites critical listening so I can't really see myself moving the G/MJ2 into my office.


----------



## captkirk

thedesigner2011 said:


> As someone who is debating between the MMB, BMB, and GMB, these posts are very helpful. One thing I'd like to ask is if people are volume matching between the warmed up GMB and warmed up BMB, and if not, how this changes the landscape? Thanks guys, happy listening.



I'm still working on comparing my Bifrost MB and Gungnir MB.  It's been quite fun and so far I'm leaning more and more towards the GMB.

I'm comparing using a Jotunheim and have the BMB and GMB (via XLR) connected and simply switch between the two inputs.  I have been volume matching,  and it doesn't make for a quick change due the extra gain on the XLR.  SE'ed output from the GMB is very good and the differences between the two outputs are negligible (_for me_) and that's great because I'm going down the path of a SE OTL amp as my next rig.

Sonically, I feel the GMB is superior.  I hear a broader, more developed soundstage and improved imaging.  I hear less of a difference in tonality, but that's not to say there isn't any.  My inexperienced ears may just not be picking it up.

One of the other features the GMB offered that I didn't even consider, but now almost easily secures the "is this worth it" question is that they're are 2 SE outs and the balanced.  Y_ou mean I don't have to mess around with source switches or y-cables?  WIN!!!  _It makes the DAC way easier to incorporate into my system.


----------



## Globox

Hello everyone.

I am considering buying the gen5 USB for my Gumby. It costs 159€ (upgrade) + 20€ (shipping back) + 50€ (shipping) = 229€. As I already have a Wyrd ; is it worth the upgrade ?
Here is my set up : PC => PYST USB => Wyrd => PYST USB => Gumby Gen2 => PYST XLR => Mjolnir 2 => FAW Noir Hybrid HPC (XLR) => Audeze LCD-X 2016

Thank you !


----------



## cskippy

Eitr destroys Wyrd.  Wyrd isn't even on the same playing field.  Gen 5 is just like Eitr but an internal board.  So yeah, IMO, it's worth it. 

BTW, if it's cheaper just get the Eitr as it can be used with future DACs as well.


----------



## Globox

Ok thanks. Then I will get the new board. Eitr is a little less expensive. But it would be again, one more box and cable. I prefere having my gungnir updated. I will wait to have my MJ2 back and do the upgrade a that time.


----------



## gwitzel

I have a question: I have upgraded my Gumby with USB Gen 5. After the upgrade everything worked immediately and sounded fantastic. However, 2 days ago I heard a click, the music stopped playing, and I saw the 'buy better gear' light flashing. Then at some point (30-60 seconds later) the music came back.

I did not experience this a second time yet. What could be the reason for this, especially if you fead it USB Gen 5? The computer I used worked well with my Gumby for more than a year before the upgrade. 

Did anybody experience this as well?

Thanks!


----------



## Globox

Hello. I don't have the Gen 5 USB yet, but I will within a mounth or so. So far, with my Gen2 Gumby, I never experiment that problem but I have always used a Wyrd. What about you ?
I see on the user manual that the 'buy better gear' mean 
_"6 Clock Mode LED 
(aka the “Buy Better Gear Light.”) 
When this LED is on, this means Gungnir cannot clock to the source with VCXO regeneration, and has defaulted to VCO regeneration. Don’t panic. What this means is you’re still getting re-clocked data, but the quality is lower, because the source is off-frequency. Time to look for another source."_
So maybe a Wyrd could solve the problem ? Maybe the Gen5 USB is more picky on the signal ?
By the way, what kind of files are you using ? Flac ? MP3 ? SD music ? HD music ? 
Which player ? Did you install the Gumby drivers on your computer ?


----------



## gwitzel (Aug 24, 2017)

Yes, I used Wyrd before, but did not use it with USB Gen 5.
The music interupted, so it was not only a change of the re-clocking mode I think.
I am using Flac, redbook CD and Audirvana on a Mac.

Maybe it was a computer glitch. I will observe. If it returns I will contact the technical support of Schiit. I am not really worried, I am rather curious.


----------



## Globox

If it stills happen without the Wyrd, try again, with Wyrd. So you will know if it comes from the new USB card or from a bad signal.
As far as I remember, Macs don't like Flacs. I'd rather use Apple Loss Less.


----------



## Boogie7910

Is there a difference with high end usb cables?


----------



## jcn3

Boogie7910 said:


> Is there a difference with high end usb cables?



that's a loaded question . . . some insistent usb cables can make no difference, period; others insistent they absolutely make a difference, period.  in my opinion, if you get something that is well made, the differences are very small so the you hit the point of diminishing returns quickly.


----------



## theveterans

jcn3 said:


> that's a loaded question . . . some insistent usb cables can make no difference, period; others insistent they absolutely make a difference, period.  in my opinion, if you get something that is well made, the differences are very small so the you hit the point of diminishing returns quickly.



Coax cables certainly makes a difference for me. As for USB, I think it's placebo


----------



## Blaze55

I'm planning to get the multibit version, using it rca out.


----------



## Ableza

Boogie7910 said:


> Is there a difference with high end usb cables?


Of course.  Some are red, some are blue, some are black.  Usually they have different company logos on them.  Obvious differences.


----------



## deserat

Boogie7910 said:


> Is there a difference with high end usb cables?



Probably not. I say probably only because the quality of the cable can make a difference under some circumstances. 

1) I'ts a crappy cable with poor connections, or one that has been crimped. 
2) You are in an area with high electro magnetic or RF  ( office building with a ton of wifi hotspots ), next to an air port ( I mean right next to ). 
3) You have alot of money and want to share it with purveyors of snake oil.

The USB standard is not fault tolerant, so interference with packet transmission is a problem. Which is one of the reasons re-clockers, jitter protections etc can be effective.  A crappy cable will produce crappy results.

That said, some double helix sacred geometry inspired vodoo magic cable is just silly. Don't buy a cable because it's cheap. But most of the time length and aesthetics are going to be more important than voodoo Better to spend abit more money on a usb regen, jitterbit, or eiter.  ( the last is my favorite)  where you will hear noticable sound improvements. 

Since this is the Gungir thread.  If you are buying new USB Gen 5 is in place already - if you have a Gungir I highly recommend the upgrade.  This does more than any cable ever could.


----------



## Globox

I see that the Gen 5 USB has a _Precision local clocks for both 44.1 and 48k multiples._ What does this mean ?


----------



## Ableza

Globox said:


> I see that the Gen 5 USB has a _Precision local clocks for both 44.1 and 48k multiples._ What does this mean ?


It means less jitter.


----------



## Globox

Okay. Thanks !


----------



## Globox

I heard that there will be some new Schiit products this mounth. Don't know if it is hoax or not. As my Gumby is already at the dealer, I am wondering if this news is a fake or not. I don't want my Gumby to come back home to go again to the dealer at the end of the mounth...
any idea ?


----------



## pctazhp

Globox said:


> I heard that there will be some new Schiit products this mounth. Don't know if it is hoax or not. As my Gumby is already at the dealer, I am wondering if this news is a fake or not. I don't want my Gumby to come back home to go again to the dealer at the end of the mounth...
> any idea ?



Not fake news https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-1604#post-13704093

But they are new products, not new updates. I'm sure you can be confident Schiit would not have everyone send in their DACs for the Gen5 USB update and soon thereafter announce new updates to any of their DACs.


----------



## Globox

Ya that's true... Thanks ! Will see what's coming soon I guess !


----------



## artur9

Why do some feel that the Gungnir MB et al have a "grey background"?


----------



## pctazhp

artur9 said:


> Why do some feel that the Gungnir MB et al have a "grey background"?



Don't know what you mean by "et al". I assume you may be referring to all the Schiit MB DACs. I don't have a Gumby but that will soon change. I can say for sure "grey background" is the last phrase I would use to describe sound of my Bimby.


----------



## joeexp

who is "some"?  It all depends on WHO is saying this!


----------



## Baldr

joeexp said:


> who is "some"?  It all depends on WHO is saying this!


Two from Jason and one from Mike


----------



## RCBinTN

Baldr said:


> Two from Jason and one from Mike


Excellent! There you go, folks. 
The Manhattan is here - on the rocks please!
As for a grey background on the GMB - don't know what that means. My GMB has zero background. But it has great sound, when the music starts to play


----------



## RCBinTN

Globox said:


> I heard that there will be some new Schiit products this mounth. Don't know if it is hoax or not. As my Gumby is already at the dealer, I am wondering if this news is a fake or not. I don't want my Gumby to come back home to go again to the dealer at the end of the mounth...
> any idea ?


Not likely to happen. Hope your GMB is at the shop for the Gen 5 (or will have it already installed).
You have a nice rig there with the GMB and Mjolnir2.


----------



## Globox

Yes that is it. It is at the shop for the USB Gen5 upgrade.


----------



## Walderstorn

Where did you guys hear about new products?


----------



## sheldaze

Walderstorn said:


> Where did you guys hear about new products?



Always an interesting read: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter.784471/
But real news is more commonly found here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...f-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/

Chapters from the book are linked from the first page. The most recent post isn't exactly in a chapter though, starts on page 1604: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-1604#post-13704093


----------



## Walderstorn (Sep 13, 2017)

sheldaze said:


> Always an interesting read: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter.784471/
> But real news is more commonly found here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...f-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/
> 
> Chapters from the book are linked from the first page. The most recent post isn't exactly in a chapter though, starts on page 1604: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-1604#post-13704093



Thanks for the help but almost 2000 pages it will be a chore to go through. About the 3rd link it had what i wanted and i appreciate it very much. I guess it was probably a bad time to buy an used Gungnir.


----------



## sheldaze

I linked you to the thread, the page, and the actual post. So, not sure how to help... 
We will all be waiting.


----------



## Walderstorn

And i wrote "About the 3rd link it had what i wanted and i appreciate it very much. ".


----------



## vulcanprime

Hey does anyone know if it's safe to stack another amp such as the Amp and Sound Mogwai on top of the Gungnir covering the vent holes? Just curious since I used to stack the Mjolnir on top of the Gungnir with no issues.


----------



## cskippy

If you look, they aren't actually vent holes on the top of Gungnir, merely aesthetics design.  So yes, it's safe.


----------



## vulcanprime

Another weird question. I have a Schiit Gungnir currently feeding an Amp and Sound Mogwai from the RCA outputs. 

I was wondering if I use an interconnect cable that is 3pin XLR male feeding into the RCA inputs on the Mogwai, would that make the sound better since it's using the balanced inputs on the Gungnir and that's theoretically where the DAC shines? Has anyone tried using different XLR to RCA interconnects and would anyone be able to recommend a specific company? 

Or should I just use RCA to RCA like everyone else does?


----------



## cskippy

No it will not.  Gumby single ended is just fine.  If you want to do it right from XLR outputs you need the Jensen PC-2XR which will use transformers to convert balanced to single ended.  I have one but choose not to use it as it takes away some of the low end (subtle but there).


----------



## vulcanprime

cskippy said:


> No it will not.  Gumby single ended is just fine.  If you want to do it right from XLR outputs you need the Jensen PC-2XR which will use transformers to convert balanced to single ended.  I have one but choose not to use it as it takes away some of the low end (subtle but there).



Thanks for the quick answer, sounds more complicated than it's worth and more expensive for no real change in sound output. Sounds like it's best to just get RCA interconnect cables. Which would you recommend? I hear Anticables is pretty good but there are some interesting choices on Ebay with OCC litz interconnect RCA plugs but they use some different type of RCA plug called *Gaofei. *Not sure if it's reputable.


----------



## cskippy

I keep it simple with good quality cables from BlueJeansCables or Pangea depending on taste and system.  I find BJCables more neutral maybe mid focused, and Pangea cables to have slightly better depth and more air, which might be too fatiguing depending on associated gear.


----------



## AudioBear

I have used both the RCA and the XLR balanced outputs on my Gumby in many configurations and I have never noticed any audible difference, nor should there be.  I'll let an electrical engineer explain that last phrase.


----------



## Charente

IME balanced out seems to have a positive effect on certain headphones ... in my case the Senn HD-650 ... they seem to like the extra power which lifts their 'veil'.


----------



## Pier Paolo

My Gumby in connected to 3 amps: a stax via xlr, a norma revo ipa 140 via rca and an euphya alliance 280 via the second rca.
My question is: is it ok to use all the tree connections or it could affect the sound quality?


----------



## nicoch46 (Sep 23, 2017)

vulcanprime said:


> Another weird question. I have a Schiit Gungnir currently feeding an Amp and Sound Mogwai from the RCA outputs.
> I was wondering if I use an interconnect cable that is 3pin XLR male feeding into the RCA inputs on the Mogwai, would that make the sound better since it's using the balanced inputs on the Gungnir and that's theoretically where the DAC shines? Has anyone tried using different XLR to RCA interconnects and would anyone be able to recommend a specific company?
> Or should I just use RCA to RCA like everyone else does?


the gungnir is a native balanced dac , the RCA out have on more stage that merge the signal  - 0 + to 0 + not big problem is a jfet stage not opamp...use what you have at the preamp input


----------



## Globox

I had my Gumby upgraded with Gen5 USB. I was wondering if the wyrd is still usefull !? I tried with and without, I can't really fell any difference so far. Did anyone try with and without and had differences ? What were  them ?
Thanks y'all


----------



## joeexp

Globox said:


> I had my Gumby upgraded with Gen5 USB. I was wondering if the wyrd is still usefull !? I tried with and without, I can't really fell any difference so far. Did anyone try with and without and had differences ? What were  them ?
> Thanks y'all



The Wyrd is not needed any longer. Complete electrostatic and electromagnetic isolation is a feature of Gen5 USB.


----------



## deserat

Globox said:


> I had my Gumby upgraded with Gen5 USB. I was wondering if the wyrd is still usefull !? I tried with and without, I can't really fell any difference so far. Did anyone try with and without and had differences ? What were  them ?
> Thanks y'all



The wyrd was there to clean the power coming through the USB cable. Pre Gen 5 the USB portion of the DAC was powered by your computer or DAP via the USB cable in much the same was a mouse is on your computer. The USB input in Gen 5 is powered from the linear power supply within the DAC itself.  Wyrd will have no impact.


----------



## Globox

Ok thanks. So that is what I felt. Unfortunatly, I definitly also feel like Gen2 USB + Wyrd was better than Gen5 USB... (I feel like there is much more noise to my ear)
Does anyone feel it that way ?


----------



## joeexp

I think you are alone there. But I can imagine, that some like a bit of grit and graininess ...


----------



## Globox (Sep 28, 2017)

Yep, I see that I am alone... But I don't understand why I am the only one that prefere Gen3 over Gen5... And, well, I dont like grit and graininess... And I don't think many people do.


----------



## Charente

@Globox ... I have the GMB/MJ2 pairing as yourself, apart from the headphones are different and I use an EITR Gen5-USB>S/PDIF, rather than the Gen5-USB upgrade on the GMB. I haven't experienced the 'grain' and 'grit' you describe ... I did hear a dullness on Gen2 before I got the EITR but that has been resolved. Another area I am a great believer in is ensuring a clean as possible mains power, which I achieved by using a Balanced Power Supply. That made a significant difference to the overall SQ.


----------



## Globox

Ok thanks... That is weird !


----------



## Charente

Another thought ... what tubes are you using in the MJ2 ?


----------



## Globox

Well, I am using LSST right now. But I also have some other tubes including the 6BZ7 from Schiit. Why ?


----------



## Charente

I have used LISST as well ... I would describe them as 'grainy' in comparison to good tubes. The stock Schiit tubes you have are better but not perfect. I'm not an obsessive tube-roller, but I have eventually settled on the 5670 family, tho' they do need 5670>6DJ8 converters (on EBay) to work on the MJ2 (the pin layout is different). Specifically I bought a pair of GE 5670W 5* from AskJan in Germany ... they are smooth as silk ! Although any 5670 'W' spec are great.


----------



## Globox

Well, I also have some real good tube : E188CC Siemens. I can try with those. But, I did not have that problem with LSST and stock tubes with Gen2 USB... So the Gen5 made it happen.


----------



## Charente

Yes, the E188CC are good also ... if that doesn't make the problem go away, then I might suggest there may be something wrong with the GMB and contact Schiit for advice.


----------



## deserat

I bought a Gumby awhile back ... added USB Gen 5 to it.  I've had it at work feeding an MJ2. I took the Bimby home to plug into my Mainline.  I just reversed the situation ... the Gumby is plugged into the Mainline again.   All I can really say is the Gumby is so much more than the Bimby, and it deserves an amp so much more transparent than the Mjolnir 2. The Bimby striped the Mainline of it's beauty, and listening Gumby warmed up and plugged into the Mainline I feel like the MJ2 stripped the Gumby of it beauty. The MJ2 and Gumby may be the same form factor, but they are no of the same class.

I've a Yggy on it's way... Bifrost will be finding a new home... probably the MJ2 will as well... anybody got a suggestion of something that mixes better with the Gumby than the MJ2. I've run it with the LSST and with Telefunken EC88CC/6922.  Don't expect anything at the level of the Mainline, just something that isn't as shallow as Paris Hiltons personality.


----------



## nicoch46

6922/E88CC have the same grid frame construction as 6dj8
russian copy 6N23P is good too


----------



## emptymt

Hi guys,

I'm new to the thread here, I've recently taken an interest in the Gumby and possibly Yggdrasil, these 2 DACs got much praise in SBAF but for some reason not as much here (Chord products does), I've been thinking of trying these out due to what I read of the R2R topology being used in the DAC resulting in detail retrieval without any digital glare, etc.

I'll be upgrading from my Chord Mojo to feed the Cavalli Liquid Carbon, the headphones will be The Focal Utopia, any thoughts on the combo are appreciated.

It's been a bit hard to gain information about the DAC and how it compares to other DAC's on the pricerange, so I would like to know more information before making a purchase.

I have also heard many interesting thoughts on this such as warm-up time, spdif output sounding better than USB, clicking sound, etc.


----------



## deserat (Oct 7, 2017)

emptymt said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm new to the thread here, I've recently taken an interest in the Gumby and possibly Yggdrasil, these 2 DACs got much praise in SBAF but for some reason not as much here (Chord products does), I've been thinking of trying these out due to what I read of the R2R topology being used in the DAC resulting in detail retrieval without any digital glare, etc.
> 
> ...



I own a Chord Mojo and a Gumby (USB Gen 5)  the two are not even close. The mojo is a fun u shaped DAC that is way better than  what is in my phone or computer but probably more comparable  to he magni/modi stack than the Gumby. The Gumby is a master of nuance. The Gumby will feed you  air,  timbre,  imaging, and a sense of realism that I wouldn't imagine the Mojo was ever designed to produce. That's not an insult to the Mojo... I totally love my Mojo... fits great in my backpack and keeps my Ether C Flows happy while I"m on the go. Listening to it right now as a matter of fact. It's just not the Gumby.

I've not heard, but have been curious about the Liquid Carbon.  From all my reading I'd guess it's somewhere between the Asgard and the MJ2  -  some say a bit better than the later some say worse.  I can say that the Gumby outclasses the MJ2 in my opinion. So if you are looking at growing from the LC one day the Gumby will be able to go with you.  It's astounding with my Mainline.

Won't be able to speak about the Yggy until next week - when it should arrive to try out with the Mainline... at it's price tag - if its only a little bit better than the Gumby... it'll go back. That kind of money ain't worth incremental improvements.

Would be really nice if Schiit would release the Gumby and Yggy circuits in non-balanced configurations.... cut the cost substantially.


----------



## emptymt

deserat said:


> I own a Chord Mojo and a Gumby (USB Gen 5)  the two are not even close. The mojo is a fun u shaped DAC that is way better than  what is in my phone or computer but probably more comparable  to he magni/modi stack than the Gumby. The Gumby is a master of nuance. The Gumby will feed you  air,  timbre,  imaging, and a sense of realism that I wouldn't imagine the Mojo was ever designed to produce. That's not an insult to the Mojo... I totally love my Mojo... fits great in my backpack and keeps my Ether C Flows happy while I"m on the go. Listening to it right now as a matter of fact. It's just not the Gumby.
> 
> I've not heard, but have been curious about the Liquid Carbon.  From all my reading I'd guess it's somewhere between the Asgard and the MJ2  -  some say a bit better than the later some say worse.  I can say that the Gumby outclasses the MJ2 in my opinion. So if you are looking at growing from the LC one day the Gumby will be able to go with you.  It's astounding with my Mainline.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I would imagine so, I find it hard to believe such a small units designed for portable use could beat something designed for best performance without regards of portability.

I would also like to upgrade the LC at one point, however all my HPs are all easy to drive, so upgrading the DAC's first would make sense I think, Violectric V281/280 or maybe it's future upgrades come to mind.

My main headphone right now is The Focal Utopia, with Sony MDR-Z1R and also Meze 99 Classic for portable duty, but I might try it out with the Gumby when I get it.
I listen to Metal and Rock mainly.

The Hugo 2 is talked a lot right now, I wonder how this compares to the Gumby, I do want to get a Desktop DAC and get a DAP for portable duty, the Hugo 2 is too big to carry around anyway.


----------



## deserat

emptymt said:


> Yeah, I would imagine so, I find it hard to believe such a small units designed for portable use could beat something designed for best performance without regards of portability.
> 
> I would also like to upgrade the LC at one point, however all my HPs are all easy to drive, so upgrading the DAC's first would make sense I think, Violectric V281/280 or maybe it's future upgrades come to mind.
> 
> ...



Only heard the the Hugo 2 at a meet. It was pretty impressive - but meet conditions aren't ideal, aside from the ton of noise there is also fatigue and the Adrenalin of playing with new toys.  My guess though is that a Hugo 2 would replace both your Mojo and your LC. If I get the time to audition it again in quiet it may replace my Bimby/MJ2 and my Mojo as it is transportable.  Very interested in hearing other impressions of the Hugo 2 DAC section vs the Gumby.


----------



## joeexp

deserat said:


> Only heard the the Hugo 2 at a meet. It was pretty impressive - but meet conditions aren't ideal, aside from the ton of noise there is also fatigue and the Adrenalin of playing with new toys.  My guess though is that a Hugo 2 would replace both your Mojo and your LC. If I get the time to audition it again in quiet it may replace my Bimby/MJ2 and my Mojo as it is transportable.  Very interested in hearing other impressions of the Hugo 2 DAC section vs the Gumby.



Unfortunately the Hugo can't drive full-size Headphones properly. You'd still need your Liquid Carbon.


----------



## RCBinTN (Oct 8, 2017)

deserat said:


> I bought a Gumby awhile back ... added USB Gen 5 to it.  I've had it at work feeding an MJ2. I took the Bimby home to plug into my Mainline.  I just reversed the situation ... the Gumby is plugged into the Mainline again.   All I can really say is the Gumby is so much more than the Bimby, and it deserves an amp so much more transparent than the Mjolnir 2. The Bimby striped the Mainline of it's beauty, and listening Gumby warmed up and plugged into the Mainline I feel like the MJ2 stripped the Gumby of it beauty. The MJ2 and Gumby may be the same form factor, but they are no of the same class.
> 
> I've a Yggy on it's way... Bifrost will be finding a new home... probably the MJ2 will as well... anybody got a suggestion of something that mixes better with the Gumby than the MJ2. I've run it with the LSST and with Telefunken EC88CC/6922.  Don't expect anything at the level of the Mainline, just something that isn't as shallow as Paris Hiltons personality.


I'm running the Gumby w/ Gen5 and the Bryston BHA-1 amp. Great SQ, IMO.
The Bryston is SS, I'm not a tube guy, but it's got a smooth/warm sound for a SS amp. And plenty of power.
Oh, and BTW, I have zero grainy sound with this rig. I went back to USB connection (from Mac), with the Gen5, the SQ is better than with my AQ diamond toslink.


----------



## Boogie7910

So I switched to USB.  Windows 10 automatically installed drivers.  Is it better to just use that or the drivers Schiit provides on website?  I tried installing the Schiit ones and it keeps saying device not found.


----------



## cskippy

With Windows 10 latest updates Windows now FINALLY supports USB Class 2 audio which should automatically work with any USB DAC.  Just use the Windows drivers.


----------



## PWGuy

Just bought a Gumby brand new with gen 5 USB!  Very excited as I've been eyeing it for 4 months or so!


----------



## deserat

PWGuy said:


> Just bought a Gumby brand new with gen 5 USB!  Very excited as I've been eyeing it for 4 months or so!


Congrats!


----------



## Klots

PWGuy said:


> Just bought a Gumby brand new with gen 5 USB!  Very excited as I've been eyeing it for 4 months or so!



I've been eyeing one for 10 months (when my Audiolab M-dac died) and been listening with HD800 plugged in directly to PC motherboard . I hope I can buy Gumby/MJ2 combo in Nov/Dec. Should be "quite" an upgrade  

How do you like your Gumby?


----------



## PWGuy

I don't receive it until Friday


----------



## Klots

PWGuy said:


> I don't receive it until Friday



only few days to wait then, very nice. Share your impressions also, if you receive it.


----------



## RCBinTN

Klots said:


> I've been eyeing one for 10 months (when my Audiolab M-dac died) and been listening with HD800 plugged in directly to PC motherboard . I hope I can buy Gumby/MJ2 combo in Nov/Dec. Should be "quite" an upgrade
> 
> How do you like your Gumby?


I love my Gumby. I already had the Gungnir then as soon as the MB upgrade was launched, I went for it.
Really opened up the sound of the HD800.
And, I've heard many good comments about the GMB/MJ2 pairing...perhaps @MattTCG can chime in here!

Enjoy Your Music!
RCB


----------



## Klots

RCBinTN said:


> I love my Gumby. I already had the Gungnir then as soon as the MB upgrade was launched, I went for it.
> Really opened up the sound of the HD800.
> And, I've heard many good comments about the GMB/MJ2 pairing...perhaps @MattTCG can chime in here!



When I searched gumby info on forums I saw where people compared DS Gungnir to M-dac and said that Gungnir was better. So Gumby seems great price/performance DAC. 

I already purchased IFI NOS 6922 tubes for MJ2. Easy to get and not so expensive. MJ2 should be very versatile and future proof also. I also use SDR mod with HD800.


----------



## Charente

After 8 months of GMB/MJ2 ownership I have no regrets whatsoever. With the new Gen5 Usb input GMB is pretty unbeatable at its price IMO (altho I use mine with an EITR). On the MJ2, I spent a little time with a few different tubes, incl LISST, but have settled on the 5670 family (adapters req'd). A pair of GE5670 5* for €48 and I'm set.


----------



## Rowethren

I have had my GMB/MJ2 set for about a year now and I love it, Gumby has the benefit that it really sounds great with speakers as well so I have it running two amps. The Mjolnir 2 has the power to run pretty much any headphone you want and you can tweak the sound with tubes if you want.

What isn't to love!


----------



## PWGuy

RCBinTN said:


> I love my Gumby. I already had the Gungnir then as soon as the MB upgrade was launched, I went for it.
> Really opened up the sound of the HD800.
> And, I've heard many good comments about the GMB/MJ2 pairing...perhaps @MattTCG can chime in here!
> 
> ...



I also have an MJ2 and purchased some NOS WE396A tubes for my MJ2 about 6 months ago.

I'm really, really excited to get this DAC and put it through its paces!  I'm coming from a Gustard X20 which was no slouch (dual ESS9018 SABRE implementation).

Connecting it up with a Curious USB cable - should be an outstanding combo!  I'll report back after the DAC has had 100+ hours to break-in.  What do other Gumby owners recommend for break-in time, especially if you have USB Gen 5 (in case it's different in this way from Gen 2)?


----------



## Klots

I think it is more of a warm up than break in.


----------



## Ojisan

Happy new owner of GMB Gen5 here. After many months of research and consideration finally pulled the trigger and took delivery yesterday. 

Right now, I have them in my basic setup
PC -> (USB) -> GMB -> (SE) -> Jot -> (Balanced) -> HD600

Compared with Jot's AK4490, it made a noticeable difference that was initially difficult to point at. The most obvious change was richer bass that creates better support of the music (kind of like adding a sub to your 2ch stereo). It's not like an eq'ed bass but it seems to provide more substance. My novice ears can't quite comprehend the other changes but my impression is that 1) GMB gives a more panoramic sound, and 2) it's almost like enhancing the music by 1dB (not 3dB) while silencing the silence by 1dB. It made it much easier to hear the difference in 24/96 vs 16/44 samples from http://www.2l.no/hires/.

For other stuff, the intro of Sawanohiroyuki[nZk]'s "e of s" with guitar/synth and panning drums sounds great making it spacious and panoramic in GMB. Also, listening to Berliner Philharmoniker & Karajan's Beethoven 9 symphonies and Martha Argerich's various piano works, I'm immersed deeper into music while picking up on details and atmosphere. All in all, loving the experience so far! 

As a side note, I also give credit to AK4490 implementation in Jot. It's no slouch. 

Once I catch up building the necessary cables, I'm going to try balanced connection from GMB to Jot. I also need to experiment with my other rigs (Stax, Bottlehead, and Rotel/B&W CM8). Should be fun.


----------



## artur9

How long have you had it?  It does take a while to reach its peak.  So better may be yet to come for you.


----------



## RCBinTN

artur9 said:


> How long have you had it?  It does take a while to reach its peak.  So better may be yet to come for you.


I think the consensus I've read is the GMB takes a few days of warmth, not playing continuous music, to really open up. 
Others have reported a significant change in the sound (for the better!) at that point. 
I leave my GMB powered on all the time, unless lightening storms threaten to strike.


----------



## Ojisan

So my previous impression was at roughly 24 hours. Now past 80 hours, unfortunately, my impression with HD600 remains relatively the same. Now I officially hate HD600. It doesn't seem to show the GMB benefit very well. I need a better dynamic can... I'm still new to this thread so maybe this point has already been beaten to death 

With my basic Stax with GMB compared to Stax with Jot/DAC pre-out, it's a different story now. With GMB, there's much more clarity, like taking the veil off the entire music. Extensions low and high and panoramic sound (like the field of view expanding from 120deg to 160deg). My favorite acoustic guitars by Pierre Bensusan, Tommy Emmanuel, and Andy McKee were crisp, dynamic, and spacious. Rampal and Kudo's flute duet in Cimarosa's concerto brings out colors of each flute and other instruments. Choir by Libera, very nice. 

I had to try Norah Jones' "Don't know why." I'm not a fan of her music but since so many people talk about it in reviews, I use it to correlate my hearing with others. What was strange about this piece is that her voice seemed very accentuated with GMB, as if the middle A frequency and octave around it is boosted. Maybe this is intentional with the filter used? Or maybe there is specific harmonic distortion in sigma-delta converters that muddles this frequency range (hence the clarity in GMB)? I didn't have any other female vocal tracks with a similar outcome. Quite curious about this...

Anyways, love the sound now


----------



## Charente

@Ojisan .... I have HD650 (currently) with GMB/MJ2, and IME using balanced cables helped to lift the Senn's SQ considerably .. however, like you, it's time to move on for me and I've heard that the new Aeon Flow Open is a worthwhile upgrade for HD650 owners and a good match with the GMB/MJ2 and with the right (NOS) tubes. The AFO are due to arrive next week and I'm looking forward to hearing them with my Schiit stack.


----------



## Ojisan

@Charente Very nice, hope to hear your impressions with the new combo! For me, everything sounds so right now with GMB/Stax L300, I'm enjoying my music.


----------



## Don Quichotte

Hi guys! I'm preparing to buy a Gumby very soon and, being on a very very tight budget, I'm undecided if I should also buy the PYST USB cable or not. I will use a laptop as a source, but only a few months later (my cd player as a transport until then). Can you please share your impressions on the PYST, is there any sonic advantage at all over a generic ultra-cheap USB cable? 

No theory, please, I don't care for "should not", "there's no way" etc. arguments, only direct experiences. Thanks!


----------



## cskippy

As long as it's a true USB 2.0 class cable you'll be fine.  I believe Jason said he uses printer USB cables.


----------



## PWGuy

Really loving my brand new Gumby!  It's an amazing piece of Schiit kit!  Running an MJ2 with some NOS WE tubes through it and a Curious USB cable.


----------



## JerryLeeds

I found these to be okay USB cables ... both around the same price ...

Oyaide NEO d+: Class A USB 2.0
And
http://www.ghentaudio.com/part/u01.html


----------



## AudioBear

I by my USB cables for about $2-3 from Monoprice here in the US.  They work fine.  If Monoprice doesn't distribute wherever you live look for an equivalent.  Since you're on a tight budget you can upgrade later if you really feel the need.  I'll bet you love Gumby so much you won't think you need to change the USB cables for a long time.


----------



## Don Quichotte

Thank you all for your replies!
Still, anyone heard a sound difference between PYST and generic cable? I knew about Jason's use of a printer cable, it's just I wanted to hear about some other experiences, if possible. Thx!


----------



## Klots

I have QED USB cable, Forza audio USB cable and I have also tried just some cheap 0.99$ USB cable. There is no difference. So there is no difference in sound quality between PYST and generic. Just buy a decent cable and your done!


----------



## Don Quichotte

Ok, thanks!


----------



## pctazhp

Just want to mention that Schiit recommends the USB 2.0 A-Male-to B- Male Cable be less than 2 meters. I used this cable for a long time with my Bimby and now with my new Gumby, which I love. No issues with this cable: https://smile.amazon.com/AmazonBasi...pID=41GqSLLamyL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch and I personally think anything more is a complete waste of money.


----------



## connieflyer

Good Morning PCT, glad to hear you gumby has arrived.  When you get a chance perhaps you can let us know what differences you have seen between the Bimby and Gumby.  I agree with you on the usb cable, it is a data cable not a cable that carries an analogue signal. So long as the 1's and 0's pass donw the wire, the gear really doesn't care. When I bought my plasma tv, part of the deal was a high grade usb cable, they gave me an Audioquest evergreen, nice cable.  I used this with my dac and heard no difference in the music between this one and one of the cheaper data usb cables. You would think if Jason used a printer cable, and some one in his position could have what ever he wanted, uses this type of cable, that would be enough of a recommendation.  I have a pair of pyst rca cables because I needed the short length for the connection to my headphone amp. They are nice, well made, but never heard a difference in the music because of them.


----------



## pctazhp

connieflyer said:


> Good Morning PCT, glad to hear you gumby has arrived. When you get a chance perhaps you can let us know what differences you have seen between the Bimby and Gumby.



Thanks so much CF. First, let me say I am comparing my older Bimby which remains Schiit's Gen 2 USB. I really don't know how much of the improvement I'm hearing is due to the more sophisticated design of Gumby or how much is due to the new Schiit USB Gen 5 implementation on Gumby. I really don't care because Gumby is now MY DAC!!!

Between my Bimby and Gumby the later is just far more natural, organic and enticing. Have to be careful when I start listening to it as it is truly captivating.  It just gets everything right. Wonderful soundstage, imagine, natural vocals, highly musical. Really I am enjoying listening so much now.


----------



## Eldair

Damn! These are out of stock in europe atm. No date when more arrive. WHY! WHY! Why now when i have money...


----------



## Vas19

Just got my Gen 5 USB upgrade and it adds another level of ease and naturalness to the sound. Took about 20 minutes to self install - definitely worth the $100.


----------



## RCBinTN (Nov 16, 2017)

Wow - 20 minutes. How did it go with re-aligning the LED's?

Fully agree with the above comments.
The Gen 5 USB Gumby is my end-game DAC.
Used to think I wanted a Yggy. Not any longer.


----------



## Vas19

Somehow I lucked out and they all just popped right back into place. I know how big a pain it can be from doing the same thing with my Bifrost... I should've bought a powerball ticket right afterward haha.


----------



## Mtavares_12

Hi,

We have been following this site by a long time, but now I decided to post here. I had a Mimby and now I moved to a Gumby. The information shared here were very important to this upgrade.
The Gumby has  been on for 120hrs. I am very happy with the increase in the soundstage, definition and clarity. It is "warm" also. 
I am considering that the final "burn-in" occurs at 300hrs. Based on  your comments, I will keep it always ON.

Thanks!

QJA


----------



## RCBinTN

Mtavares_12 said:


> Hi,
> 
> We have been following this site by a long time, but now I decided to post here. I had a Mimby and now I moved to a Gumby. The information shared here were very important to this upgrade.
> The Gumby has  been on for 120hrs. I am very happy with the increase in the soundstage, definition and clarity. It is "warm" also.
> ...


Great first post, welcome to Head-Fi. 
Enjoy your time here and don't be shy.

I love my GMB and am not looking further for a DAC. It's just perfect, for me.

I've been to Brazil many times. We bought a company in Sao Paulo then built a new plant in Jundiai.
Love your country...and especially the people.

Obrigado!
RCBinTN

ps. My Portuguese is really bad. I know maybe three words.


----------



## Friscosfoe

Hi, Im having this frustrating problem with my gungir mb. Im nearing the end of the return period, but Id really like to keep it, and could use some advice. Hope this is the right thread to use 



Hi have a problem with a new gumby, still within return period. Hope this is the correct thread to use for advice.

(1) System is imac to gumby gen 5 to rogue audio sphinx using SE/RCA connection.

(2) Problem Im getting static in one channel when I turn the volume control on the Sphinx to about 12 o’clock, which is just at the top of my listening range. It stops making sounds when I stop adjusting the volume

(3) Notably the problem persists regardless of whether I am in playback mode or not or whether the gumby is the audio out on the mac, as long as gumby is connected to the computer. It also persists regardless of whether my connection to the mac is usb, SPDIF through EITR, or optical.

_(4)  Two other DACs, Bimby and Dragonfly red ,do not create this problem- the volume control is dead silent._

(5) _On the other hand the Gumby works perfectly in two other setups, Valahalla 2 and two channel system with Jolida tube preamp._

(6) Reversing the RCA inputs sends the static to the other speaker.

(7) I bypassed the Sphinx’s tubes by using the headphone jack. The static persisted (and was worse.)

(8) The problem persists if I use a battery powered macbook or an ipod as a source instead of the iMac.

(9) I upgraded my usb cable, and my rca cables to bluejeans highest rated for shielding; the problem continues


----------



## Ableza

Friscosfoe said:


> (6) Reversing the RCA inputs sends the static to the other speaker.


That's usually a symptom of a bad cable, although if you only reversed one end of the cables there could be a problem with the line out on one side of the DAC.  So, if the issue moves with the cable it is likely the cable; if the issue moves with the output of the DAC, it could be one channel of the DAC.


----------



## Mtavares_12

RCBinTN said:


> Great first post, welcome to Head-Fi.
> Enjoy your time here and don't be shy.
> 
> I love my GMB and am not looking further for a DAC. It's just perfect, for me.
> ...



RCBinTN,

Thanks by your reception.

I expect you  have always great time and business here in Brazil.

I am using the Gumby in a speaker configuration. Before the Mimby, I have used the DAC inside the Oppo 95. I became surprised how the Mimby was better. Moving to the Gumby is another level. I am still using the Oppo 95 as a transport connected to the BNC input (through a Black Cat Veloce coax cable). 

Considering all the good comments related to the USB Gen5 input, I am planning to start the tests to use a notebook as a music source. Let's see how it goes.

Regards,

QJA


----------



## rkw

Friscosfoe said:


> (2) Problem Im getting static in one channel when I turn the volume control on the Sphinx to about 12 o’clock, which is just at the top of my listening range.*It stops making sounds when I stop adjusting the volume*


Are you saying that you only get static while you are turning the volume knob? Strange that an input signal could cause something like that.

Anyway, following up on Ableza's comment, you should swap the entire cables left/right to narrow down the problem.


----------



## Ableza

Ooo - I missed that little fact about he noise only happening when volume is adjusted.  Yes, that sounds like an issue with the volume control.  Although the rest of your description points to cable or output issues.

In any case, If you swap out the cable and the problem persists, contact Schiit and ask for an RMA to send the DAC back for testing if you think it is the problem.  They will be happy to help.


----------



## RCBinTN (Nov 18, 2017)

Ableza said:


> Ooo - I missed that little fact about he noise only happening when volume is adjusted.  Yes, that sounds like an issue with the volume control.  Although the rest of your description points to cable or output issues.
> 
> In any case, If you swap out the cable and the problem persists, contact Schiit and ask for an RMA to send the DAC back for testing if you think it is the problem.  They will be happy to help.


Nice job helping out here! Well done.
What we are about, my friend.


----------



## RCBinTN

Mtavares_12 said:


> RCBinTN,
> 
> Thanks by your reception.
> 
> ...


I know we are off-topic here, but this is fun...learn about Brazil.
 - Caipirinha - the national drink of Brazil, made with Cachaca (distilled from sugar cane, similar to rum). My recipe: sugar, muddled lime, ice!, Cachaca, mix and enjoy!
 - Churrascaria - Brazilian steak house - awesome...consider 14 types of meat, cooked on a wood fire and brought to your table.
The most interesting aspect of Brazil was about the people.
There is zero racial tension. A nice change from the US.
I was comfortable and met many friends.

Back on topic...the GMB with the Gen 5 is a very stable and musical system.
The Gen 5 blows away the USB2 or whatever the earlier version was called...
I, too, use a Mac as my server. It pairs well with the GMB.

Happy Listening!
RCB


----------



## Mtavares_12 (Nov 20, 2017)

Deleted.

QJA


----------



## KeithEmo

Potentiometers (the volume control) often become a little noisy with age.... although you usually don't notice it.
_HOWEVER_, when you hear a crunching as the volume control is turned, this strongly suggests that there's some DC on the volume control.
(You can't hear DC, but when you move the control it modulates the DC, which then becomes audibly crunchy noises.)

This suggests that there's a little bit of DC offset reaching the volume control from some upstream circuitry.




Ableza said:


> Ooo - I missed that little fact about he noise only happening when volume is adjusted.  Yes, that sounds like an issue with the volume control.  Although the rest of your description points to cable or output issues.
> 
> In any case, If you swap out the cable and the problem persists, contact Schiit and ask for an RMA to send the DAC back for testing if you think it is the problem.  They will be happy to help.


----------



## Friscosfoe

KeithEmo said:


> Potentiometers (the volume control) often become a little noisy with age.... although you usually don't notice it.
> _HOWEVER_, when you hear a crunching as the volume control is turned, this strongly suggests that there's some DC on the volume control.
> (You can't hear DC, but when you move the control it modulates the DC, which then becomes audibly crunchy noises.)
> 
> This suggests that there's a little bit of DC offset reaching the volume control from some upstream circuitry.



Keith thanks for this.I swapped amps and concluded that there is static in two other cases. In the case of my valahalla2 the static level is so low that I can only hear it if there is no music playing back.Static is quite loud without playback on Jolda preamp/ emotiva xpa 200, but for some reason I have trouble hearing the static there too while music is playing.


----------



## rkw

KeithEmo said:


> _HOWEVER_, when you hear a crunching as the volume control is turned, this strongly suggests that there's some DC on the volume control.
> (You can't hear DC, but when you move the control it modulates the DC, which then becomes audibly crunchy noises.)
> 
> This suggests that there's a little bit of DC offset reaching the volume control from some upstream circuitry.


That's very interesting. Is there a way for him to confirm whether there is indeed a DC offset issue? Perhaps try a different circuit, or would it still be a problem anywhere in the house? If DC is passed to the volume control, is that a fault of the Gungnir or only solvable through the mains power?


----------



## Friscosfoe

I,ll try a different dac, an emotiva Dc-1, one more time and listen very carefully for sign of the DC offset. Need to make a decision whether to send back the gumby for repair.


----------



## KeithEmo

There's no real way to confirm it without making internal measurements.
This is NOT related to the mains power at all.... it is strictly a matter of there being a bit of DC somewhere in the internal circuitry where there shouldn't be....
(The actual cause can be a lot of things - although a leaky capacitor is the most common cause.)

On something like a preamp, where the volume control is connected directly to the input, it could be coming from the upstream source component connected to it (or something internal).
(if it's a source component, then you might notice it on only one input.)
On a DAC, where the "upstream component" is part of the internal circuitry, it pretty well has to be coming from something inside the DAC.

Note that, while a significant amount of DC shouldn't be there, a tiny bit may be normal, so it's a matter of determining whether there is too much, and, if so, why it's there.
I'm afraid, though, that only the folks who built it are going to know what's normal and what's too much.
(Also note that, even if there's a small/normal amount of DC offset present, it could have become audible because the control has gotten especially scratchy.)



rkw said:


> That's very interesting. Is there a way for him to confirm whether there is indeed a DC offset issue? Perhaps try a different circuit, or would it still be a problem anywhere in the house? If DC is passed to the volume control, is that a fault of the Gungnir or only solvable through the mains power?


----------



## Mtavares_12 (Nov 25, 2017)

If I have the following adapter:
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter

and connecting an USB cable to the Gumby USB Gen 5  input and to the adapter, Will I be able to have a successfull audio connection to an Iphone 6/7?

QJA


----------



## jcn3

Mtavares_12 said:


> If I have the following adapter:
> https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter
> 
> and connecting an USB cable to the Gumby USB Gen 5  input and to the adapter, Will I be able to have a successfull audio connection to an Iphone 6/7?
> ...


yes it should work.


----------



## joeexp

jcn3 said:


> yes it should work.



Yes, it does work - I am using it right now!


----------



## AudioBear

I have had a couple of those adaptors fail over the years.  They can be flakey but it should work.


----------



## Friscosfoe

My saga continues. My problem was that I get static in one channel  when changing volume. The Gumby has been with schiit and I just got it back, with a note that there was no problem with the dac. I was disappointed but not totally surprised— on some amps the static is so low that to hear it clearly you have to turn off playback and then turn the volume control- I guess the tech did not try that.

Anyway, I have a new problem, or maybe one that I hadn’t noticed. When the music changes source/type there is an audible click through the speaker that matches the click made by the dac. It’s only through one channel, the same channel that produces the static (might be related) the click is quite pronounced and I worry about speaker impact.

Question is whether hearing the click through the speaker is normal. I found a thread here that suggests otherwise.

I’m contacting schiit again if  the click through the speaker is not normal.


----------



## Don Quichotte (Dec 9, 2017)

It is definitely not normal!

There might be a batch of defective units? I have bought a Gungnir Multibit a month ago and it has a similar problem: a pop on the right channel every time the relay opens or closes (only when using the unbalanced outputs). It had it from the very beginning.  I have also discovered the cause: when playing music (and only then!) the right channel unbalanced outputs exhibit a huge DC offset - about 4V! Left channel is about 85 milivolts DC, iirc (rather high, but acceptable, I guess). I'll send it back for servicing next week.

If you have a voltmeter it's very easy to check if you have a big DC offset on that channel. Just make sure the dac is playing music (so the relay is closed), otherwise the RCA output would be disconnected and you wouldn't be able to measure anything. Please post your readings.

I didn't have static, btw. Maybe it's because of this DC offset too (and the way it interacts with your particular downstream equipment)?! Edit: reading the above conversation convinces me this was your problem from the start too.

Really surprised the service guys didn't find the problem!


----------



## Friscosfoe

Don Quichotte said:


> It is definitely not normal!
> 
> There might be a batch of defective units? I have bought a Gungnir Multibit a month ago and it has a similar problem: a pop on the right channel every time the relay opens or closes (only when using the unbalanced outputs). It had it from the very beginning.  I have also discovered the cause: when playing music (and only then!) the right channel unbalanced outputs exhibit a huge DC offset - about 4V! Left channel is about 85 milivolts DC, iirc (rather high, but acceptable, I guess). I'll send it back for servicing next week.
> 
> ...



Don thanks for the advice, Am new to this and had troubles with the volt meter; I just sent back the unit for a second look. 
I think the rogue sphinx,s motorized vol pot must be very sensitive to what is going on. The static is not audible  on my magni, unless you stop playback and turn up the volume. 
Hopefully the clicks will convince Schiit there is a problem; I suspect that any fix for the clicks will take care of the static. I don’t think this is an  incompatibility issue between the dac and the rogue. My bimby is dead silent with the rogue, and so is the left channel of the Gumby.


----------



## Don Quichotte

So it was the right channel too, just as in my case. I think you should tell them about my finding ("there might be a big DC offset on the right channel when the music is playing" - if you need the exact words) and ask them to check. You can tell them that in my case it is 4VDC. Please report here any further news.

On the other hand: how's the Gumby sounding compared to the Bimby? Is it a significant upgrade from your point of view? Unbalanced outputs both, of course.


----------



## Friscosfoe

It felts like the Gumby has more authority (gain?) and more delineation. For example, if I can offer an analogy between sound and distance. I’m listening to Renee Fleming Christmas album in hd. On one track the bimby expands the seperation between her voice and another female singer to let’s say an inch. With the Gumby the distance is two inches.


----------



## Don Quichotte

I see. The tonality and frequency extension are identical?


----------



## KeithEmo

I haven't seen the Gumby's schematic, but a lot of devices mute their outputs at various times by shorting their output to ground using a relay.
Odds are the output of the DAC is shorted to ground when there is no music playing.
(This is a perfectly normal and safe thing to do.)

Because of this, if the DAC is producing a DC offset at its output, you can expect that offset to go away when the output is muted.
And you can also expect a big pop when the muting goes on and off.
(The pop you hear is the DC being shorted and unshorted suddenly; the noise occurs when DC is applied to a volume control which is slightly crunchy to begin with.)

However, you would see those exact same symptoms if the output of your DAC is connected to another device, and there's DC leaking back out of the other device's INPUT circuitry.
(If that was the case, however, this would only happen when that other piece of equipment was connected.)

Of course, neither should be happening.



Don Quichotte said:


> So it was the right channel too, just as in my case. I think you should tell them about my finding ("there might be a big DC offset on the right channel when the music is playing" - if you need the exact words) and ask them to check. You can tell them that in my case it is 4VDC. Please report here any further news.
> 
> On the other hand: how's the Gumby sounding compared to the Bimby? Is it a significant upgrade from your point of view? Unbalanced outputs both, of course.


----------



## Don Quichotte

@KeithEmo : Yes, this is exactly how I understand the phenomenon too.


----------



## Don Quichotte (Dec 21, 2017)

Something else occurred to me. Please, can a few of you measure for any DC offset on your Gumby's unbalanced outputs while playing music and post your result here? All you need is a voltmeter and less than 1 minute available. I'm thinking that my left channel's DC offset is not entirely normal either - at about 84 mV it seems too high to me, although it didn't cause any problems that I was aware of.

Generally speaking, what do you think would be an acceptable level of DC offset at the output of a dac or CD player?

I'd much appreciate any info on this topic. Thanks!

*Edit:* For example here (scroll down to the end of the first post) 16-50 mV is considered acceptable for an amplifier, while the Gumby's offset is further amplified by the amplifier (if DC coupled) before reaching the loudspeakers / headphones. And a few years ago I asked AKG and the designer of AKG K1000 what is the acceptable level of DC offset reaching these headphones' drivers and was told something along the lines of (iirc): "pretty much because they have a big excursion, but I don't know the precise value - anyway, below 50 mV should be safe".


----------



## Friscosfoe

Don Quichotte said:


> Something else occurred to me. Please, can a few of you measure for any DC offset on your Gumby's unbalanced outputs while playing music and post your result here? All you need is a voltmeter and less than 1 minute available. I'm thinking that my left channel's DC offset is not entirely normal either - at about 84 mV it seems too high to me, although it didn't cause any problems that I was aware of.
> 
> Generally speaking, what do you think would be an acceptable level of DC offset at the output of a dac or CD player?
> 
> ...






Well I’m getting my Gumby back this afternoon, but because they turned it around so quickly, it might be they found no problem although I asked to check for a dc offset.  I’ll report in.

May need instructions on operating a voltmeter.


----------



## Don Quichotte

Have you told them about measuring while the music is playing? Of course they should be well aware this is the only way you could measure anything at the dac's outputs, but still...

I'll tell you about the voltmeter in a few hours, right now I'm a bit in a hurry.


----------



## Friscosfoe

Got the Gumby back. They confirmed problem and replaced a “mod. “ It works and sound great. Still would like to test the outputs.


----------



## Don Quichotte

And what could this "mod" be? Maybe one of those small, unannounced changes / upgrades Mr. Moffat has recently admitted they are making from time to time?! 

Now the big question is this: does your Gumby sound any different now, apart from the lack of static and popping sound? (I mean in terms of detail, tonality etc.) I'm asking because I've had some matching problems with the rest of my gear in terms of timbre and tonality and I'm wondering if this problem had anything to do with it.

As for the Dc offset measurement, the procedure goes like this:
1. First you need a multimeter. Even a cheap one will do.
2. Play any piece of music through your Gumby. It doesn't matter what, but it's essential that the outputs are "live" when you conduct the measurement, not shorted or disconnected or whatever those relays are doing when there's no signal entering the dac. I think (I'm not trained in electronics, just an amateur) that it's better if the dac has been warmed up (for a few minutes / tens of minutes, not necessarily days).
3. Turn the multimeter on and set it to measure DC voltage, for instance set it for up to 20 V at first and then you can use other, lower scales. In this picture, for example, the DC voltage scales are in the higher left quadrant, below the "hold" button.
4. Insert one of the multimeter lead tips into the center hole (signal) of one channel's RCA output connector, making sure you touch the metal inside, and touch the other lead tip to the outer jacket (ground) of the same RCA connector. Write down the value shown by the multimeter and then repeat the procedure for the other channel. Alternatively, it might be easier for you if you conduct the measurement at the free end of an interconnect cable
connected to the RCA outputs. As long as the cable is functioning properly, it doesn't influence the reading.

Apologies if I'm too much into stating the obvious in the above paragraph, I mean no offense - I just have no idea what is your level of knowledge.


----------



## Friscosfoe

1.maybe mod refers to a module of some sort
2. My level of knowledge on volt meters is zero, thanks for the help.
3. Getting to the main point, I was thinking last night that the setup sounded better after the repair. More detail in strings and percussion, and somehow more vibrant and exiciting. That’s subjective I know, and maybe it’s by comparison to the dc-1 that I’ve been using. Still the dc-1 is a solid dac with good detail, that I would say is competitive with bimby , but the repaired Gumby is aways ahead  of the other two.


----------



## Don Quichotte

Thanks! Fingers crossed mine will sound better too (especially that your impressions refer to a not fully warmed up Gumby). Looking forward to read about your DC offset values now.

Anyone else willing to try and measure it?


----------



## Allanmarcus

Hi.  Bimby owner here and I just got a Gumby (gen 2) a week ago.  My son, also a headphone audiophile, is visiting and we set up the Mac to output two USB ports at the same time (with drift correction), and set up a well made RCA switchbox with RCA cables running from both DACs into my Black Widow 2. We tried lots of headphones and for the most part cannot tell the difference between the DACs. I _think, maybe, _I can hear a difference in some female vocals. To me, the bimby might sound a tad smoother on some Female vocals.  

I guess I was hoping for larger difference between the DACs, but maybe we are just listening for the wrong stuff, or to the wrong stuff. I supppose if I cannot hear a difference, I can sell the Gumby and save a lot of money.

Any suggestions on how to better understand the value of the gumby over the bimby? We also tried the MJ2 with LSST tubes, and will try with WE396a tubes tomorrow. We figured SS would be less forgiving with DACs, but maybe not. 

Oh, I did try the Gumby balanced into the MJ2. Of course it was louder, but that is to be expected.  

Thanks


----------



## Ojisan

Allanmarcus said:


> Hi.  Bimby owner here and I just got a Gumby (gen 2) a week ago.  My son, also a headphone audiophile, is visiting and we set up the Mac to output two USB ports at the same time (with drift correction), and set up a well made RCA switchbox with RCA cables running from both DACs into my Black Widow 2. We tried lots of headphones and for the most part cannot tell the difference between the DACs. I _think, maybe, _I can hear a difference in some female vocals. To me, the bimby might sound a tad smoother on some Female vocals.
> 
> I guess I was hoping for larger difference between the DACs, but maybe we are just listening for the wrong stuff, or to the wrong stuff. I supppose if I cannot hear a difference, I can sell the Gumby and save a lot of money.
> 
> ...



I don't have experience with bimby but at one point I was comparing Jot's AKM 4490, Gumby, and Yggy. I recall that Gumby presented a very unique bass and mid-bass fullness not heard in other DACs. You might want to pick some tracks that would expose that area. For me, they were large orchestral pieces, larger ensemble jazz, and some country music. 

Other areas where I heard obvious differences were the trebles on tracks with a lot of left-right panning with sound effects and cymbals. They often reveal treble timbre, soundstage, and extension. 

Not sure if that helps... sounds like a fun experiment though


----------



## sheldaze

I'll second the above, with regards to bass and mid-bass. It was a fullness I heard from Gumby, and in my speaker system more of a three-dimensional presence and impact from the Gumby versus the Bimby. I am still trying to learn more about what causes the audible effects. My guess, today, is the power supply (Bimby-Gumby-Yggy) first upgrade allows for a little more impact and depth, second upgrade allows for a more tightly defined, more resolving and cohesive bass in Yggy.

On headphones, it is not quite as audible. I'll have to do some experiments with my BW2. Last DAC comparison opportunity with Gumby (when available) was through Glass, which conveniently has two inputs. But I too have a transparent RCA switch-box. So next time...


----------



## Ableza (Jun 27, 2018)

AND... since all audio is subjective, if you don't hear a difference then you don't hear a difference and there is nothing wrong with that.  Sell the Gungnir and enjoy the music!


----------



## joeexp

Allanmarcus said:


> Hi.  Bimby owner here and I just got a Gumby (gen 2) a week ago.  My son, also a headphone audiophile, is visiting and we set up the Mac to output two USB ports at the same time (with drift correction), and set up a well made RCA switchbox with RCA cables running from both DACs into my Black Widow 2. We tried lots of headphones and for the most part cannot tell the difference between the DACs. I _think, maybe, _I can hear a difference in some female vocals. To me, the bimby might sound a tad smoother on some Female vocals.
> 
> I guess I was hoping for larger difference between the DACs...
> 
> Thanks



The Gumby needs a few days to warm up properly, to sound its best.


----------



## Allanmarcus

joeexp said:


> The Gumby needs a few days to warm up properly, to sound its best.


Yes. Thanks. I knew that. They have both been on for over a week.


----------



## TK16

Mine is due for delivery Tuesday.


----------



## Don Quichotte

TK16 said:


> Mine is due for delivery Tuesday.


Don't forget to check the DC offset of the dac while playing music. I suspect there might be a batch of defective units (see the recent discussion in this thread). And please post your results. Thx.


----------



## nicoch46

for real value  the offset must test with no music ie before the relay  in this case


----------



## Ableza

Don Quichotte said:


> Don't forget to check the DC offset of the dac while playing music. I suspect there might be a batch of defective units (see the recent discussion in this thread). And please post your results. Thx.



There is nothing to be gained by this exercise.  If a unit produces a large enough DC offset to be an issue you will hear it.  If you don't hear it, it's not a problem.  Simple.


----------



## Don Quichotte

nicoch46 said:


> for real value  the offset must test with no music ie before the relay  in this case


Why, would you expect a different value? How come?
FWIW, I also did a little experiment. I took a music track, I inverted the waveform in a wave editor and combined the two, resulting in a track of total silence. I played the track, the relays reacted as if it was some real music to be played and, upon measuring the DC offset, I've got exactly the same values as when real music was playing, namely 84mV left and 4.05V right.



Ableza said:


> There is nothing to be gained by this exercise.  If a unit produces a large enough DC offset to be an issue you will hear it.  If you don't hear it, it's not a problem.  Simple.


Sorry, but I have to disagree. I think it's not so simple. Even if you don't hear a detrimental effect, you could have at least several problems:
1. The dac and the downstream equipment (at least until the signal meets a cap, if there is any to be met) are not working within the intended parameters. It is my understanding that some active components such as transistors will have a worse performance under these conditions - higher distortion and I suppose their thermal behavior might be different too, which I assume could also reduce their life expectancy. As a rather extreme example, a diy tube amp I have heard in my system, that was working perfectly fine with other sources, misbehaved badly when connected to my Gumby - noise, bass distortion, one channel dropped in volume after a few minutes etc. I don't know if it was the DC offset causing this, but I fail to see what else could have been (granted, the preamp might have had a problem as well). This potential for creating trouble was not apparent when I used the dac with other equipment (apart from the already mentioned pops on the right channel).
2. If the DC is amplified in a DC coupled amplified and passed further to the loudspeakers or headphones, the resting position of the cone will be moved from the center of it's excursion range - in other words, it will permanently be "pushed in" or "pulled out" a bit. This will result in uneven forces during the cone movement, as well as not only lower excursion to one side of it's real, correct center position but also higher excursion to the other side - and higher excursion correlates with higher distortion.
3. I've been told that up to 50mV DC offset should be certainly safe for my ex headphones AKG K1000. One can assume therefore that higher than 50mV might not be 100% safe. I had 84mV on the left channel which would be further amplified before reaching a phone such as the K1000, so I would definitely exceed the stated safe zone. My point is that this would happen in spite of the fact that I have not heard anything obviously wrong, such as pops or static, on the left channel and if not for the much higher offset on the right I wouldn't have known something is wrong. 

The above sound and reliability issues might be or might be not noticeable at the moment, but might become audible or cause trouble in the future, for example when upgrading partnering equipment (more revealing speakers could make amp distortion more obvious, a DC coupled amp instead of the current AC couple one would start passing the offset to the speakers and so on), if the life of the partnering equipment has been shortened because of operating out of parameters (and you won't even have a clue about it) or when comparing your DC offset afflicted Gumby to a "healthy" one etc. Not to mention a possible drop in resale value.

Given all the above, I think it's reasonable to expect a perfectly functioning unit if I payed perfectly usable money for it, without any "if" or "maybe" regarding sound and reliability, and the same is true for all of you fellow Gumby owners. So, even if you are not convinced or wouldn't bother for your own sake, would it be too much from me to ask you: please, measure and report in order to help me?!

Actually, if this is not an isolated phenomenon, you would also help Schiit, other potential buyers and other current owners too...


----------



## KeithEmo

I'm afraid you're incorrect.

DC itself is totally inaudible. 
Things like crackling on the volume control are actually side effects of there being DC present where it should not be.
However, excessive DC can cause problems ranging from none at all to permanently damaged equipment. 
Some equipment, by the nature of its circuitry, ignores or is immune to DC offset altogether.
However, it can cause some equipment to temporarily malfunction, and can totally destroy other equipment.
You cannot safely make any sort of generalization about that sort of thing.

Specifically, applying DC to a potentiometer will often cause noises when moving the control - but is unlikely to cause permanent damage.
Applying DC to a speaker or headphone can cause problems ranging from slight distortion to completely burning out the driver elements (and such damage, being abuse, may not be covered under your warranty).
Applying DC to the input of an amplifier may do nothing, or it may cause distortion or even signal dropouts, or may damage the amplifier.
The DC may also be amplified, and passed on to the next component in the signal chain, where it may cause damage.

The precise amount of DC offset which is dangerous will depend on the equipment involved - and where in the signal chain you're looking.
4V DC is absolutely not typical for the output of a DAC (whose normal signal level is around 2V).



Ableza said:


> There is nothing to be gained by this exercise.  If a unit produces a large enough DC offset to be an issue you will hear it.  If you don't hear it, it's not a problem.  Simple.


----------



## Ableza (Jan 2, 2018)

KeithEmo said:


> I'm afraid you're incorrect.
> 
> DC itself is totally inaudible.
> Things like crackling on the volume control are actually side effects of there being DC present where it should not be.
> ...


Of course you don't "hear" DC - and if you want to get technical about it you don't "hear" AC either, you only hear the result of a signal after it's been applied to some transducer.  DC offset will shift the null of the signal and drive the circuit to operate in unpredictable ways for which it was not designed, causing distortion including often audible hum or clipping.  So the simple presence of DC may or may not be audible, depending on what it does to the rest of the system - which was my point.  It really doesn't matter if it is there or not if you can't hear the effect.


----------



## KeithEmo

I disagree.

If you don't hear it, but it makes your headphones smoke, then it probably matters.
Likewise, if everything works fine today, but it makes the next amplifier you plug into it smoke, then it's probably not OK either.
Excessive DC on the signal is a _potentially destructive condition_ - and one which should never be present with equipment that's functioning properly.
It is neither harmless nor normal; it is an _unusual_ condition which can _reasonably_ be expected to cause audible problems or actual damage with _MANY_ systems.



Ableza said:


> Of course you don't "hear" DC - and if you want to get technical about it you don't "hear" AC either, you only hear the result of a signal after it's been applied to some transducer.  DC offset will shift the null of the signal and drive the circuit to operate in unpredictable ways for which it was not designed, causing distortion including often audible hum or clipping.  So the simple presence of DC may or may not be audible, depending on what it does to the rest of the system - which was my point.  It really doesn't matter if it is there or not if you can't hear the effect.


----------



## Ableza (Jan 2, 2018)

Understood and agree, and unless it is damaged or defective none of that will happen with the types of DC offsets normally found in consumer or pro audio equipment.  Which is what this discussion is about.  And you'd likely hear an issue if that was the case.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 2, 2018)

We hear AC, the humm you hear from a dirty outlet is 60hz, but there maybe overtone as well.  The music is mix of AC of various frequencies.

Yeah, DC alone you can't hear(it's 0 frequency. it's not a wave, or cannot cause a mechanical wave).  It will push your cone outside the non-biased point and keep it there(if you look, DC is a straight line), and depending on severity, it can cause damage.  This is for just strictly DC.  DC is a straight line, whereas AC is alternating.  The speaker is moving back in forth due to alternation.  This back and forth creates movement of air, or sound.

Adding DC is like adding the same value everywhere on the sound signal, which means the sound signal will either shift up or down depending on the DC value(positive or negative).  And this shift can be too much that, it can cause distortion since the sound signal has reach and went beyond the supply's voltage limit for the amp.  Once again, DC is still is still there as it's added to the music signal, therefore depending on the  severity, can damage the driver just like a strictly a DC signal.


----------



## Don Quichotte

Ableza said:


> Understood and agree, and unless it is damaged or defective none of that will happen with the types of DC offsets normally found in consumer or pro audio equipment.  Which is what this discussion is about.  And you'd likely hear an issue if that was the case.


This is very black and white. What if the issue consists of higher (but not much higher, not easily identifiable as "bad sound") distortion and you don't know your gear is supposed to sound better? What if you hear nothing wrong because you have an AC coupled amp - and later on replace it with a DC coupled one and have an unpleasant surprise? And so on...

All this discussion only to argue whether it makes sense or not to do a very simple measurement with a voltmeter!?

@KeithEmo: According to your knowledge, what is the highest DC offset you would deem acceptable (so would not see as a malfunction) in a dac or CD player? Thanks!


----------



## Allanmarcus

Folks, how about you move the DC offset discussion to a different thread and keep this discussion about the Gungnir?


----------



## KeithEmo

I'm going to answer this one last question - since it does relate to this particular thread - then I'm not going to talk about DC offset any more in this thread.
In a line level device like the Gungnir, I would consider anything over 50 mV - 100 mV to be a lot of offset.
Even that is a bit high by today's standards (it probably isn't dangerous - but I would ask the manufacturer if it's normal.)
(While the offset on a power amp might drift slightly higher, and would be difficult to measure under signal conditions, I would expect to see a similar number when no music is playing and it's warmed up.)





Don Quichotte said:


> This is very black and white. What if the issue consists of higher (but not much higher, not easily identifiable as "bad sound") distortion and you don't know your gear is supposed to sound better? What if you hear nothing wrong because you have an AC coupled amp - and later on replace it with a DC coupled one and have an unpleasant surprise? And so on...
> 
> All this discussion only to argue whether it makes sense or not to do a very simple measurement with a voltmeter!?
> 
> @KeithEmo: According to your knowledge, what is the highest DC offset you would deem acceptable (so would not see as a malfunction) in a dac or CD player? Thanks!


----------



## Allanmarcus

Don Quichotte said:


> Please, can a few of you measure for any DC offset on your Gumby's unbalanced outputs while playing music and post your result here?



I measured my Gumby and the value bounces around, but never goes above 5mV, usually less.


----------



## Ableza

0-20mV DC bias is considered very good.  20-50mV is typical, over 100mV can be a problem.


----------



## Don Quichotte

Thanks everyone!


----------



## ColtMrFire

I've been waiting for this day for a long, long time.  Officially about to become a member of the Gumby club.  Just bought a used one today, should be here in a few days.

Upgrading from Mimby, and I've heard it's an appreciable upgrade, so I'm excited.  I have never heard Gumby, but I did demo Yggy a while back and was very impressed.  Differences (compared to Mimby) seemed subtle at first and not that impressive an upgrade but the longer I listened the more all the hype made sense.  That extra bit of everything was important to the overall musical experience.  Gumby supposedly being 90% of Yggy should be worth it.


----------



## bmanone

ColtMrFire said:


> I've been waiting for this day for a long, long time.  Officially about to become a member of the Gumby club.  Just bought a used one today, should be here in a few days.
> 
> Upgrading from Mimby, and I've heard it's an appreciable upgrade, so I'm excited.  I have never heard Gumby, but I did demo Yggy a while back and was very impressed.  Differences (compared to Mimby) seemed subtle at first and not that impressive an upgrade but the longer I listened the more all the hype made sense.  That extra bit of everything was important to the overall musical experience.  Gumby supposedly being 90% of Yggy should be worth it.


I look forward to hearing your impressions of your new Gumby.


----------



## Allanmarcus

ColtMrFire said:


> I've been waiting for this day for a long, long time.  Officially about to become a member of the Gumby club.  Just bought a used one today, should be here in a few days.
> 
> Upgrading from Mimby, and I've heard it's an appreciable upgrade, so I'm excited.  I have never heard Gumby, but I did demo Yggy a while back and was very impressed.  Differences (compared to Mimby) seemed subtle at first and not that impressive an upgrade but the longer I listened the more all the hype made sense.  That extra bit of everything was important to the overall musical experience.  Gumby supposedly being 90% of Yggy should be worth it.


Hopefully you can compare easily, and without bias.  I look forward to reading about your impressions. Neither my son nor I could hear the difference between a Bimby and a Gumby, and I was't able to hear a difference between a bimby and a mimby.  My ears are old, but my 26 year old son’s aren’t. We we able to blind test between the two, and neither of us was able to consistently identify either DAC. 

So, try hard not to be biased and don’t feel bad if you cannot hear a difference, but if you can, I look forward to reading your impressions. 

Been a long time since we saw each other in Austin.  Hope you are doing well!


----------



## eee1111 (Jan 11, 2018)

Allanmarcus said:


> Hopefully you can compare easily, and without bias.  I look forward to reading about your impressions. Neither my son nor I could hear the difference between a Bimby and a Gumby, and I was't able to hear a difference between a bimby and a mimby.  My ears are old, but my 26 year old son’s aren’t. We we able to blind test between the two, and neither of us was able to consistently identify either DAC.
> 
> So, try hard not to be biased and don’t feel bad if you cannot hear a difference, but if you can, I look forward to reading your impressions.
> 
> Been a long time since we saw each other in Austin.  Hope you are doing well!




Were you using digital files on a computer?
USB?

When I moved up from bifrost Uber to gungnir multibit there was a clear difference

But I’ve never compared a Gumby to a Yggdrasil Side by side


----------



## RCBinTN

ColtMrFire said:


> I've been waiting for this day for a long, long time.  Officially about to become a member of the Gumby club.  Just bought a used one today, should be here in a few days.
> 
> Upgrading from Mimby, and I've heard it's an appreciable upgrade, so I'm excited.  I have never heard Gumby, but I did demo Yggy a while back and was very impressed.  Differences (compared to Mimby) seemed subtle at first and not that impressive an upgrade but the longer I listened the more all the hype made sense.  That extra bit of everything was important to the overall musical experience.  Gumby supposedly being 90% of Yggy should be worth it.


Congratulations. You will love it.
The GMB will also enable balanced connections to your amplifier.
If you use USB to feed the GMB, you might consider the Gen 5 USB or an Eitr.
The Gen 5 made a nice improvement to my rig - it's very stable and the SQ is great.
It beats the SQ of toslink feed from my Macbook Pro - even using an AQ Diamond cable.
Cheers,
RCB


----------



## ColtMrFire

RCBinTN said:


> Congratulations. You will love it.
> The GMB will also enable balanced connections to your amplifier.
> If you use USB to feed the GMB, you might consider the Gen 5 USB or an Eitr.
> The Gen 5 made a nice improvement to my rig - it's very stable and the SQ is great.
> ...



I use CDs/Coax.  I stopped using computer audio after I heard the difference between the Mimby's USB and Coax, which was substantial.  The Gumby I'm getting is Gen 2, but I may investigate Gen5/Eitr at some point down the line... right now I have a ton of CDs to re-explore.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Allanmarcus said:


> Hopefully you can compare easily, and without bias.  I look forward to reading about your impressions. Neither my son nor I could hear the difference between a Bimby and a Gumby, and I was't able to hear a difference between a bimby and a mimby.  My ears are old, but my 26 year old son’s aren’t. We we able to blind test between the two, and neither of us was able to consistently identify either DAC.
> 
> So, try hard not to be biased and don’t feel bad if you cannot hear a difference, but if you can, I look forward to reading your impressions.
> 
> Been a long time since we saw each other in Austin.  Hope you are doing well!



Yes, I'm still gracious you let me borrow the Beyer T1, though I didn't care for them ultimately.  Hearing your Utopia was a highlight though!

I am dying to hear a Black Widow again, as I demoed one with Yggy last year.  Amazing amp.


----------



## Allanmarcus

eee1111 said:


> Were you using digital files on a computer?
> USB?



What other type of computer files are there? 
Yes, lossless, often hi res, music from the computer over USB.

I'm on vacation now (in Hawaii, tough life), then travel for work for a week, but when I get back I will do some more serious listening and make a decision. If I keep the Bimby I will sell the Gumby, will upgrade the Bimby to Gen5, and have hundreds of dollars to spend on something else! 



ColtMrFire said:


> The Gumby I'm getting is Gen 2, but I may investigate Gen5/Eitr at some point down the line


If you use coax there is no need for gen5 USB



ColtMrFire said:


> I am dying to hear a Black Widow again


Road trip to Santa Fe! I can e even put you up for a few nights in my son's old room.


----------



## eee1111 (Jan 11, 2018)

asking usb or coax

I just said that

I wanted to know if you were using usb or coax

CD player into the dac is still a digital file
thats all I wanted


----------



## ColtMrFire

I should've clarified that I might investigate Gen5/Eitr to get back into PC audio.


----------



## RCBinTN

I remember Mike rating the SQ of various inputs to his DACs...
1. AES
2. Coax
3. USB
4. Optical
I'm a bit foggy on 3&4, although with Gen 5 the USB will beat optical (personal experience).


----------



## Loquah

RCBinTN said:


> I remember Mike rating the SQ of various inputs to his DACs...
> 1. AES
> 2. Coax
> 3. USB
> ...



I just installed a Gen5 in my Gumby. I'll be comparing my BNC setup to the G5 USB soon.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Gumby in the house and warming up!

Was supposed to come yesterday but we had an ice storm in Austin which wreaked havock on deliveries.

Going into Lyr 2/T90 headphone combo, I decided to see what's what.  I know it needs time to warm up and stabilize and will sound better, but I wanted to get an idea of where is starts.

Listened to Amy Winehouse - Lioness Hidden Treasures, an album I'm very familiar with.

Right off the bat, I could barely hear a difference between Gumby and Mimby.  Mimby at $250 was THE bargain in audio so far.  What's the big fuss about Gumby I thought?  As I listened to a few songs though I could tell the soundstage was bigger, much less cramped than Mimby (one of the few criticisms I had of the cheaper DAC).  Treble also sounded smoother, even though it was kind of strident and compressed.

The sound as a whole seemed compressed and unweildy, although I could definitely hear the potential.  I was able to pick up audio cues and nuances I did not hear with Mimby.  Amy's voice had more nuance and texture to it.  And it seemed alot less strained than Mimby with vocals.  There is a track with Nas that was sometimes hard to listen to, typical hip hop/pop brickwalling/excessive treble... but it was alot easier to listen to, treble was much smoother and had more detail in it.

Again, it's only been on less than half an hour, so I know it will get better.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Also, it's a used Gumby, so should already be burned in and not take as long to get to optimal.  Right?


----------



## shultzee

I just went back to a Gumby (Gen 5) after a couple of years.   I recently had  a Pagoda and a Bimby.  The Pagoda was very good but a different presentation all together.   The Gumby vs. Bimby (gen. 5)  imho is not even close.  The gumby in its current form is really amazing gear for the price.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Okay, now I'm starting to become impressed with this DAC.  

2.5 hrs later... 2nd track of Steely Dan's "Aja", just incredible sense of control, space and harmony.  And really starting to show what the bass can do.  Very nice.

Biggest thing for me is the soundstage is so much less cramped than Mimby.


----------



## theveterans

ColtMrFire said:


> Okay, now I'm starting to become impressed with this DAC.
> 
> Biggest thing for me is the soundstage is so much less cramped than Mimby.



Same with Bimby. Soundstage is far less cramped than Mimby.


----------



## Allanmarcus

ColtMrFire said:


> Also, it's a used Gumby, so should already be burned in and not take as long to get to optimal. Right?



You aren't burning it in; you are warming it up. The chips need to be warmed up to function optimally, so being used or new doesn't matter. This is why many don't ever turn the DAC off. 



shultzee said:


> The Gumby vs. Bimby (gen. 5) imho is not even close



It's great you can hear such a difference. Are you using headphones or speakers? I understand that small differences in audio are sometimes more pronounced with speakers. It also possibly you are more sensitive to regions in that might sound different on the DACs. objective measurements show the FR of the two DACs to be virtually identical. Distortion measurements of the gumby are much lower, but the bimby's levels of distortion are in the inaudible range, so no human should be able to hear that. Sound stage is hard to measure. I've never understood how anything but the transducer could effect sound stage, and since it's not measurable, there is no way to disprove that one DAC has better stage than another. Oh yea, DBT might, but we aren't supposed talk about that evil.

The gumby has more advanced technology, measures better in areas that are inaudible, and cost more, therefore it sounds better.  If it's not true, we all wasted money!


----------



## artur9

Allanmarcus said:


> Sound stage is hard to measure. I've never understood how anything but the transducer could effect sound stage, and since it's not measurable, there is no way to disprove that one DAC has better stage than another. ...
> 
> The gumby has more advanced technology, measures better in areas that are inaudible, and cost more, therefore it sounds better.  If it's not true, we all wasted money!


Also, Gumby is balanced which makes a difference to some (like me).

IIRC, Nelson Pass said a subtle amount of 2nd order distortion in his amps made people hear a deeper soundstage.  That surprised him but if that's what the customer wants....


----------



## KeithEmo

If Nelson is correct, then doesn't that really mean that what we're talking about is the _ILLUSION_ of a deeper sound stage?
(We're talking about adding new fake depth cues to replace the original ones we presume are missing.

Could it simply be that, to many listeners, many modern recordings fail to convey a proper reproduction of the original sound stage.....
And that, because of this, some listeners prefer equipment that provides a FALSE illusion of increased sound stage presence that replaces the real missing one?
(Just as, even though it contains no original colors, a colorized black and white movie may APPEAR more realistic than the original B&W version.)



artur9 said:


> Also, Gumby is balanced which makes a difference to some (like me).
> 
> IIRC, Nelson Pass said a subtle amount of 2nd order distortion in his amps made people hear a deeper soundstage.  That surprised him but if that's what the customer wants....


----------



## US Blues

KeithEmo said:


> If Nelson is correct, then doesn't that really mean that what we're talking about is the _ILLUSION_ of a deeper sound stage?
> (We're talking about adding new fake depth cues to replace the original ones we presume are missing.
> 
> Could it simply be that, to many listeners, many modern recordings fail to convey a proper reproduction of the original sound stage.....
> ...



All musical recordings are an illusion. We enjoy (hopefully) the illusion created by the interface of our gear and the room it's in, or via headphones. Different folks get off on different aspects of the sound, then argue with one another on forums such as this about why their preferred illusion is the best and only illusion that makes sense.

We are a funny lot.


----------



## Allanmarcus

artur9 said:


> Also, Gumby is balanced which makes a difference to some (like me).


Ahh, correct.  If you have a weak amp that needs higher input levels, and amp with poor single ended input handing, or if you have a long run between your DAC and amp, the balanced cable may help if you have RFI or EMI issues. Just curious, how do the balanced cables make a difference for you?

For me, with the BW2 and MJ2 as my amps and the Gungnir right under the amps, the is no advantage to balanced cables from the DAC.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Woke up and gave it another listen after about 16 hours being on.  I have to say so far I'm not that impressed.  I think if I hadn't owned Mimby I'd be blown away.  It absolutely does some things better, but they're extremely subtle so far, and it actually still sounds kind of congested.  It still sounds like it's struggling a bit.  Which is probably a good sign.  Plenty of time left.

But I am still not being too critical, as it hasn't been 48 hours yet, just thinking outloud.


----------



## theveterans

ColtMrFire said:


> Woke up and gave it another listen after about 16 hours being on.  I have to say so far I'm not that impressed.  I think if I hadn't owned Mimby I'd be blown away.  It absolutely does some things better, but they're extremely subtle so far, and it actually still sounds kind of congested.  It still sounds like it's struggling a bit.  Which is probably a good sign.  Plenty of time left.
> 
> But I am still not being too critical, as it hasn't been 48 hours yet, just thinking outloud.



IMO, your downstream gears can also vary your perception with the DAC difference. I perceive a large difference in imaging and soundstage between the Gungnir and Mimby with the HD800 during my time at the Schiitr, but IMO I prefer to compare with speaker if you have a living room system. The magic from Bimby, and Gumby is far more present there and you can easily spot the difference against Mimby


----------



## ColtMrFire

I used to own the HD800, and my T90 scales just as well.  The two headphones are actually pretty close.

Lyr 2 is pretty resolving as well.  Not up to TOTL gear, but resolving enough to where I hear differences. 

But I will not pass judgement until it's been on at least a week or so.  From what I've been reading, 48 hours is where you start becoming impressed.


----------



## artur9

Allanmarcus said:


> the balanced cable may help if you have RFI or EMI issues. Just curious, how do the balanced cables make a difference for you?



I have some sort of EMI issue that using balanced cables throughout eliminates.  I have spent days trying to find it without success.  I think it's related to all kinds of environmental problems (neighbor's noisy WIFI, high tension power lines, etc).


----------



## artur9

KeithEmo said:


> If Nelson is correct, then doesn't that really mean that what we're talking about is the _ILLUSION_ of a deeper sound stage?



From Stereophile Interview


> Negative-phase second harmonic tends to expand the perception of front-to-back space in the soundstage, separating instruments a bit. Positive phase does the opposite, putting things subjectively closer and "in your face."


----------



## RCBinTN

ColtMrFire said:


> I used to own the HD800, and my T90 scales just as well.  The two headphones are actually pretty close.
> 
> Lyr 2 is pretty resolving as well.  Not up to TOTL gear, but resolving enough to where I hear differences.
> 
> But I will not pass judgement until it's been on at least a week or so.  From what I've been reading, 48 hours is where you start becoming impressed.


Hello -
First...ice storm in Austin!  I can only imagine the chaos.  
We have the same chaos in Nashville, and we get ice every year.

I am a happy GMB owner (w/ Gen 5 USB) and have heard only the Yggy and GMB.

A couple questions...
Is Mimby the same thing as Modi 2 MB? Sorry, I couldn't find "Mimby" on the Schiit site.
Since you're using a CD player, does that mean the digital connection to Mimby is coax?

I agree the T90 should certainly present the difference in sound between the DACs...

The GMB resolves to an effective 19 bits (Yggy is better at 21 bits).
I can't find the effective resolution of Modi2 MB, but it will be less than GMB.
So, on specs, the GMB should present more music from the same source.

When I upgraded from Gungnir to GMB it made a big difference in the bass quality of the HD800...

Finally, what tubes are you running in the Lyr2? Have you tried it with the LISST?

Just wondering, my friend.
Cheers,
RCB


----------



## ColtMrFire

Took another listen before heading off to work, and HOLEEE SCHIIT.

I'm starting to see what the fuss is about.

Compared to Mimby, Gumby is WAY more dynamic... this thing has huge brass balls.  It's like the difference between those "weeeee!" kiddie rides at Disneyland and the giant oh-my-god-i-might-die juggernauts at the the other theme parks.  That's probably the biggest difference at this point and it's not subtle.  Excellent slam, and the sense of rythm/PRAT has increased as well.  Lots more head bobbing.  More subtle things... timbre has improved, with instruments sounding fuller and better imaged.  Better sense of layering throughout the stage, with a bigger sense of venue... this is more obvious on classical music.

All this leads to a more involving, emotional musical experience.  Will do some more listening when I get home.


----------



## ColtMrFire

RCBinTN said:


> Hello -
> First...ice storm in Austin!  I can only imagine the chaos.
> We have the same chaos in Nashville, and we get ice every year.
> 
> ...



Mimby is selectable in the drop down menu on the Modi page on the Schiit website.

Was using USB on Mimby at first, until I tired coax from DVD/CD player on a whim... blew USB out of the water and I never went back.  There is a huge difference between the two on Mimby.

Mimby resolves 16 bits with 4x oversampling (same as Bimby).  Gumby/Yggy does 8x.

Tried LISST in Lyr 2, didn't like them at all... Solid state "haze", and not as resolving or nuanced.  A friend turned me onto the Tesla E88CC tubes for $50.  Sounds just as good as the more expensive ones.  Those are what I use.


----------



## RCBinTN

ColtMrFire said:


> Took another listen before heading off to work, and HOLEEE SCHIIT.
> 
> I'm starting to see what the fuss is about.
> 
> ...


Wow, so the warm-up time is real and you verified it!  That's cool, mate.

Now, Keep the GMB warm, I do it, just powered on. 
It doesn't cost much in the scheme of things.
But, it keeps the sound consistent...

Welcome to the GMB family. Happy you're here.
Cheers,
RCB


----------



## Loquah

ColtMrFire said:


> Excellent slam, and the sense of rythm/PRAT has increased as well.  Lots more head bobbing.  More subtle things... timbre has improved, with instruments sounding fuller and better imaged.  Better sense of layering throughout the stage, with a bigger sense of venue... this is more obvious on classical music.
> 
> All this leads to a more involving, emotional musical experience.  Will do some more listening when I get home.



You've just summed up my impressions of the Gumby. I didn't find that it smacked me in the face with its performance, but the intangibles: engagement, emotion and head-bobbing are undeniable.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Gumby is full of contradictions.  Compared to Mimby it is louder/more dynamic, but less shouty.  It is easier on the ears.  It is thicker (Mimby is thinner), but less veiled.  Mimby has a definite veil in the mids/treble in comparison... 

It makes me really want to upgrade my amp, because it's clear Lyr 2 is holding Gumby back.  I was thinking about Mjolnir 2, but from what I've read it doesn't do well single ended, and I am not wanting to get balanced cables just to get a "better" amp (plus my T90 doesn't have detachable cable, so I would have to get it modded for balanced)... 

Anyone go from Lyr2 to MJ2 and able to offer comparisons?  I was really thinking about Black Widow, maybe a used one.


----------



## Ableza

ColtMrFire said:


> Also, it's a used Gumby, so should already be burned in and not take as long to get to optimal.  Right?


It's not "burn in," it's "warm up to thermal equilibrium."  Every unit takes a different amount of time, for my Gungnir MB it seemed most stable and sounded great after about 5 hours.


----------



## Tro95

ColtMrFire said:


> Gumby is full of contradictions.  Compared to Mimby it is louder/more dynamic, but less shouty.  It is easier on the ears.  It is thicker (Mimby is thinner), but less veiled.  Mimby has a definite veil in the mids/treble in comparison...
> 
> It makes me really want to upgrade my amp, because it's clear Lyr 2 is holding Gumby back.  I was thinking about Mjolnir 2, but from what I've read it doesn't do well single ended, and I am not wanting to get balanced cables just to get a "better" amp (plus my T90 doesn't have detachable cable, so I would have to get it modded for balanced)...
> 
> Anyone go from Lyr2 to MJ2 and able to offer comparisons?  I was really thinking about Black Widow, maybe a used one.



I recently upgraded from a Bifrost 4490 & Valhalla 2 to Gumby and MJ2. I still run my HD650s in single-ended, and my HE-6s in both single-ended and balanced. I can say that other than the 6db volume difference, the single-ended outputs drive both cans as well as the balanced, and I cannot hear any other differences. The upgrade from V2 to MJ2, however, was a very nice step up.


----------



## RCBinTN

I'm very happy with the Bryston BHA-1, but have also heard good things about the MJ2 pairing well with GMB.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Jan 20, 2018)

The differences between Mimby and Gumby become extremely pronounced on well mastered music.  I had been very pleased with Gumby listening to alot of my albums.  Chicago - 16 and 17, Drake - Take Care, Tchaikovsky - Piano Concerto No. 1 (Zubin Mehta), Ryan Adams - Ryan Adams, and they were all more enjoyable than with Mimby.  But I was not prepared for just how much better Gumby was until I listened to John Williams' Star Wars - A New Hope (1997 remaster), which is a reference quality recording... this is where Gumby truly started to pull away from Mimby... far, far away (pun intended).  The sound was so incredibly good I had to let my housemate listen and he was giggling and smiling from ear to ear with plenty of "wow"s.  The mastering of an album seems to take on far more importance with Gumby (and I suspect Yggy).  This became even more obvious when I listened to John Williams' Star Wars - Attack of the Clones, which is in badly need of a remaster... I could barely tell a difference between Gumby and Mimby with this album.  I am going off memory on these two, but I listened to them quite often on Mimby, so I have a very good idea of what they sounded like.  So it is not purely a matter of "is Gumby better than Mimby?".  It is more a question of how well the album is mastered...  and that's when you will either hear almost no difference or a massive difference.  To put it bluntly, listening to A New Hope was one of (if not THE) most enjoyable listening sessions I've EVER had in this hobby.  And that's not an exaggeration on my part.


----------



## Ableza

RCBinTN said:


> I'm very happy with the Bryston BHA-1, but have also heard good things about the MJ2 pairing well with GMB.


That's what I use and I love it.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse (Jan 21, 2018)

I have a gungnir and mjolnir combo with lcd-3s all from 2012. They are fed by a squeezebox touch mostly using Tidal hifi. I haven’t changed my equipment in all this time. I go in and out of this hobby, recently rediscovering my music again. I have to say I’ve been very happy with everything except for a few issues.

I’m always in love with the midrange performance but on certain tracks it’s just too strident and bright. It’s my understanding that pre fazor lcd-3s heavily trend towards warm. It’s hard to explain but there’s just a harsh digital bite after a while that gets to me. Also, I was never that impressed with the bass performance. The Audeze are praised for their amazing bass, and although it’s very clean, I never found it deep and the sub bass is very subtle.

My question is, do you think sending in my gungnir to be gumbied would make a huge difference and solve some of the above issues? I have no clue on if it’s the DAC or original mjolnir that is causing this. Would an amp change be more effective? Thanks


----------



## cskippy

Is there any way you can try another pair of headphones?  Maybe go to a local meet?  The amp and DAC will color or add flavor but the core sound will remain unchanged.  What you describe seems to be fundamental issues with the LCD-3 and not the amp or DAC.  

Although, I do believe both the Gungnir DS and Mjolnir V1 both leaned toward a brighter sound, so depending on the severity of the issues, maybe the amp and DAC could be the culprits.  I really would suggest listening to some other gear, just to get another reference point, then come back and see if it's the headphones or more the amp and DAC.  

Hope this helps.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Uncle00Jesse said:


> I have a gungnir and mjolnir combo with lcd-3s all from 2012. They are fed by a squeezebox touch mostly using Tidal hifi. I haven’t changed my equipment in all this time. I go in and out of this hobby, recently rediscovering my music again. I have to say I’ve been very happy with everything except for a few issues.
> 
> I’m always in love with the midrange performance but on certain tracks it’s just too strident and bright. It’s my understanding that pre fazor lcd-3s heavily trend towards warm. It’s hard to explain but there’s just a harsh digital bite after a while that gets to me. Also, I was never that impressed with the bass performance. The Audeze are praised for their amazing bass, and although it’s very clean, I never found it deep and the sub bass is very subtle.
> 
> My question is, do you think sending in my gungnir to be gumbied would make a huge difference and solve some of the above issues? I have no clue on if it’s the DAC or original mjolnir that is causing this. Would an amp change be more effective? Thanks



I've not heard the original MJ or DS Gungnir, but I can tell you multibit solves alot of the problems of DS DACs, mainly the "digital" sound.  MB tech is alot more natural and smoother/easier on the ears.  From what I've read about MJ1, it has a bit of a bright sound.  But do some more digging.


----------



## RCBinTN

Uncle00Jesse said:


> I have a gungnir and mjolnir combo with lcd-3s all from 2012. They are fed by a squeezebox touch mostly using Tidal hifi. I haven’t changed my equipment in all this time. I go in and out of this hobby, recently rediscovering my music again. I have to say I’ve been very happy with everything except for a few issues.
> 
> I’m always in love with the midrange performance but on certain tracks it’s just too strident and bright. It’s my understanding that pre fazor lcd-3s heavily trend towards warm. It’s hard to explain but there’s just a harsh digital bite after a while that gets to me. Also, I was never that impressed with the bass performance. The Audeze are praised for their amazing bass, and although it’s very clean, I never found it deep and the sub bass is very subtle.
> 
> My question is, do you think sending in my gungnir to be gumbied would make a huge difference and solve some of the above issues? I have no clue on if it’s the DAC or original mjolnir that is causing this. Would an amp change be more effective? Thanks


I upgraded my Gungnir to GMB soon after the MB upgrade was announced (a while back). That is the best $500 that I have spent on this hobby.
I had heard the magic of the Yggy at a HP meet. The upgrade of my Gungnir to GMB brought me close to the Yggy magic.
I also had the Gungnir + Mjolnir1 stack and found it a bit bright...changing your DAC to the MB will help tame that brightness.
But lately I've heard that the MJ2 pairs better than the MJ1, and gives you the ability to try different tubes...
Hope this helps -
RCB


----------



## RCBinTN

ColtMrFire said:


> The differences between Mimby and Gumby become extremely pronounced on well mastered music.  I had been very pleased with Gumby listening to alot of my albums.  Chicago - 16 and 17, Drake - Take Care, Tchaikovsky - Piano Concerto No. 1 (Zubin Mehta), Ryan Adams - Ryan Adams, and they were all more enjoyable than with Mimby.  But I was not prepared for just how much better Gumby was until I listened to John Williams' Star Wars - A New Hope (1997 remaster), which is a reference quality recording... this is where Gumby truly started to pull away from Mimby... far, far away (pun intended).  The sound was so incredibly good I had to let my housemate listen and he was giggling and smiling from ear to ear with plenty of "wow"s.  The mastering of an album seems to take on far more importance with Gumby (and I suspect Yggy).  This became even more obvious when I listened to John Williams' Star Wars - Attack of the Clones, which is in badly need of a remaster... I could barely tell a difference between Gumby and Mimby with this album.  I am going off memory on these two, but I listened to them quite often on Mimby, so I have a very good idea of what they sounded like.  So it is not purely a matter of "is Gumby better than Mimby?".  It is more a question of how well the album is mastered...  and that's when you will either hear almost no difference or a massive difference.  To put it bluntly, listening to A New Hope was one of (if not THE) most enjoyable listening sessions I've EVER had in this hobby.  And that's not an exaggeration on my part.



That's one of the things about the GMB - you hear more of the music due to the 19 bits resolution.
Most of my music is 16/44.1 ALAC or FLAC, which I think is fine. It sounds great.

But as you wrote, the original recording quality and mastering plays a big part in the SQ.

I've found that albums mastered or re-mastered by Bob Ludwig sound really good.

For example, I have Joe Bonamassa albums produced by the same guy, Kevin Shirley, some mastered by Bob and others that were not.
The albums mastered by Bob sound better. More "real" or analog sound. 

Here's a link to Bob's work. Click on Artist at the top and it will sort for you. Happy Listening!

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/bob-ludwig-mn0000067819/credits

Cheers,
RCB


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

Thanks for your responses. What about bass? Would a Gumby alone create more bass impact and bring out the sub bass? The first gentleman mentioned it could just be the headphones, and while possible I find that hard to believe after hearing how amazing everyone perceives the Audeze bass. If I have to upgrade the mjolnir also at some point, I want to make sure my first change will make a positive impact first without having to do both right off the bat.


----------



## bronco1015

So I got a Gumbi and a Jotunheim a while back, and finally hooking them up. I've got the gumbi and Jotunheim hooked up via pyst RCA cables, and an optical going from my Gumbi to my Win 10 desktop. I've set the optical output as the default, and rebooted, but no audio of any kind. Is there something I've overlooked in this setup? Or does anyone have any thoughts/suggestions on what I could troubleshoot to get it working? Thanks in advance.


----------



## AudioBear

bronco1015 said:


> So I got a Gumbi and a Jotunheim a while back, and finally hooking them up. I've got the gumbi and Jotunheim hooked up via pyst RCA cables, and an optical going from my Gumbi to my Win 10 desktop. I've set the optical output as the default, and rebooted, but no audio of any kind. Is there something I've overlooked in this setup? Or does anyone have any thoughts/suggestions on what I could troubleshoot to get it working? Thanks in advance.



Check that you have the right windows drivers (http://www.schiit.com/driversa) and, if possible, that USB audio is coming out of your PC.   Do you have another device that connects to the USB and plays audio?

One easy thing to do if you have the right connectors (eg an RCA to 3.5 mm mini-jack for headphones or earbuds) is connect the RCA to the SE analog output of Gumby to a set of earbuds or IEMs.  Turn the digital volume output to zero on your computer and then turn on Gumby.  Slowly advance the digital volume control on your computer and listen to see if Gumby is playing.  If there's sound output then it's your connection and selection of inputs/outputs of Jot. You could also test another input into the Jot.  If you don't get sound it's most likely a problem in your PC/Drivers?software.  But you need to check Gumby with another input to make sure Gumby's ok too.  In a word.  Isolate the problem.

More specific information would help.


----------



## Gimpinchair

bronco1015 said:


> So I got a Gumbi and a Jotunheim a while back, and finally hooking them up. I've got the gumbi and Jotunheim hooked up via pyst RCA cables, and an optical going from my Gumbi to my Win 10 desktop. I've set the optical output as the default, and rebooted, but no audio of any kind. Is there something I've overlooked in this setup? Or does anyone have any thoughts/suggestions on what I could troubleshoot to get it working? Thanks in advance.



Not sure if the digtal out is the same as USB, but did you could check if the output device is selected by clicking on the speaker icon in the system tray.


----------



## rkw

bronco1015 said:


> So I got a Gumbi and a Jotunheim a while back, and finally hooking them up. I've got the gumbi and Jotunheim hooked up via pyst RCA cables, and an optical going from my Gumbi to my Win 10 desktop. I've set the optical output as the default, and rebooted, but no audio of any kind. Is there something I've overlooked in this setup? Or does anyone have any thoughts/suggestions on what I could troubleshoot to get it working? Thanks in advance.


Have you used the computer's optical output with other devices before, and verified it working? If you have a USB cable available, try that as well..


----------



## rkw (Jan 21, 2018)

AudioBear said:


> Check that you have the right windows drivers (http://www.schiit.com/drivers) and, if possible, that USB audio is coming out of your PC.   Do you have another device that connects to the USB and plays audio?


He is trying to use optical output.

In any case, with an up-to-date Windows 10 system, USB should be plug and play and the system will automatically install correct drivers. Only need to manually install drivers if that doesn't work. It says on the Schiit website: "_If you're going to use a Windows PC as a audio source via USB, it's best to see if the system will install its own drivers first—simply plug in the DAC via USB and see if it finds and installs drivers._"


----------



## AudioBear

rkw said:


> He is trying to use optical output.
> 
> In any case, with an up-to-date Windows 10 system, USB should be plug and play and the system will automatically install correct drivers. Only need to manually install drivers if that doesn't work. It says on the Schiit website: "_If you're going to use a Windows PC as a audio source via USB, it's best to see if the system will install its own drivers first—simply plug in the DAC via USB and see if it finds and installs drivers._"



Missed that!  Thanks.  Now on to verifying that optical is outputting a signal....


----------



## Loquah

Uncle00Jesse said:


> Thanks for your responses. What about bass? Would a Gumby alone create more bass impact and bring out the sub bass? The first gentleman mentioned it could just be the headphones, and while possible I find that hard to believe after hearing how amazing everyone perceives the Audeze bass. If I have to upgrade the mjolnir also at some point, I want to make sure my first change will make a positive impact first without having to do both right off the bat.



I had LCDs (LCD 2.2 pre fazor) for a while and they were great, but if you feel like they're lacking bass I can understand. The extension (how deep) and the quality of the bass from LCDs are great, but they were still a little light on the quantity for me. I'm using NightHawks now and have since sold the LCDs and HD800s I previously owned because the Hawks are so damn enjoyable.
System is PC,  Gumby (Gen 5 USB), Bottlehead Mainline, balanced NightHawks


----------



## hikaru12 (Jan 21, 2018)

Does anyone know if the Gumbys coming out now come with standard Gen 5 USB or is that an upgrade package you have to get? Might go with the Eitr instead of having to wait.



bronco1015 said:


> So I got a Gumbi and a Jotunheim a while back, and finally hooking them up. I've got the gumbi and Jotunheim hooked up via pyst RCA cables, and an optical going from my Gumbi to my Win 10 desktop. I've set the optical output as the default, and rebooted, but no audio of any kind. Is there something I've overlooked in this setup? Or does anyone have any thoughts/suggestions on what I could troubleshoot to get it working? Thanks in advance.



You need to manually enable all the bitrates you intend to play with Optical. I'm feeding my Mimby with optical. This is what it should look like:


----------



## ColtMrFire

hikaru12 said:


> Does anyone know if the Gumbys coming out now come with standard Gen 5 USB or is that an upgrade package you have to get?


----------



## hikaru12

ColtMrFire said:


>



Yeah read that but I read that as in standard upgrade not that it comes with it. That's great news. That being said, I've heard the Coaxial input is still better on the Gumby then Gen 5 USB. Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## callumrd1

It says "now standard in all our upgradable DACs" which means that it comes standard with all upgradable DACs!


----------



## bronco1015

rkw said:


> Have you used the computer's optical output with other devices before, and verified it working? If you have a USB cable available, try that as well..


Thanks all for the replies. Yes I have, used a 5.1 system with it a while back via the optical port. Also, may try USB since I have fall creator's edition installed, but preference is optical. Now i'm to the point where I do have a little bit of audio coming from each channel, but the DAC is clicking intermittently. I use a screen reader, and when it starts talking is when i hear some audio from each channel, and the dac clicking. Theres no popping in the headphones, just in the gumbi. I'm using VLC so may need to look at the settings there as well.


----------



## bronco1015

hikaru12 said:


> Does anyone know if the Gumbys coming out now come with standard Gen 5 USB or is that an upgrade package you have to get? Might go with the Eitr instead of having to wait.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to manually enable all the bitrates you intend to play with Optical. I'm feeding my Mimby with optical. This is what it should look like:


Thanks for posting this, I wondered about needing to specify the bitrates, sorry to ask, but could you tell me what's in your screenshot? i'm totally blind and can't see what's in it.


----------



## Don Quichotte

hikaru12 said:


> That being said, I've heard the Coaxial input is still better on the Gumby then Gen 5 USB. Can anyone confirm this?


When I had my Gumby (now it's in service), I thought the coaxial SPDIF coming from my CD player (a lowly but sweet and musical sounding Cambridge D300) is just a hair better than USB gen 5 (PC running Windows 10 / Wasapi / Foobar). Better meaning ever so slightly more detailed or focused, a "better lit" image so to speak. However, the difference was extremely small, to the point that I'm not sure I could identify which is which in a DBT. I was very impressed with the USB. Please take into account there are plenty of factors that would influence the result: the actual transport used (a consumer grade Nad CD player was worse sounding than the Cambridge as a transport and therefore worse than the USB gen 5; on the other hand, there are much better CD transports out there), the SPDIF cable and connectors, some also claim a difference due to the USB cable, tweaking software such as Fidelizer etc. So as a general rule, I think we can safely say that the USB Gen 5 is competitive with the coaxial SPDIF, but I think it can be bettered by the coax - might be expensive though. I wouldn't loose sleep over it...


----------



## hikaru12

Don Quichotte said:


> When I had my Gumby (now it's in service), I thought the coaxial SPDIF coming from my CD player (a lowly but sweet and musical sounding Cambridge D300) is just a hair better than USB gen 5 (PC running Windows 10 / Wasapi / Foobar). Better meaning ever so slightly more detailed or focused, a "better lit" image so to speak. However, the difference was extremely small, to the point that I'm not sure I could identify which is which in a DBT. I was very impressed with the USB. Please take into account there are plenty of factors that would influence the result: the actual transport used (a consumer grade Nad CD player was worse sounding than the Cambridge as a transport and therefore worse than the USB gen 5; on the other hand, there are much better CD transports out there), the SPDIF cable and connectors, some also claim a difference due to the USB cable, tweaking software such as Fidelizer etc. So as a general rule, I think we can safely say that the USB Gen 5 is competitive with the coaxial SPDIF, but I think it can be bettered by the coax - might be expensive though. I wouldn't loose sleep over it...



Thanks for the response. I was thinking of getting an Eitr but if it's a incremental upgrade then I'll save money for the USB cable itself. I was thinking of getting a AudioQuest Forest cable or Starlight. Don't know if the quality of the cable will matter as much with the Gen 5 USB but if I can save myself some money on the cable then I'd rather go that route.


----------



## hikaru12

bronco1015 said:


> Thanks for posting this, I wondered about needing to specify the bitrates, sorry to ask, but could you tell me what's in your screenshot? i'm totally blind and can't see what's in it.



Right click on the DAC that you're feeding with Optical and click Properties -> Supported Formats -> and check off basically all the boxes. From there, go to Levels/Enhancements I believe and Disable all Enhancements and select the right sampling rate for your content. Usually 16/44 or 16/48 is good unless you got Hi-Rez 24/192 files.


----------



## joeexp

Don Quichotte said:


> When I had my Gumby (now it's in service), I thought the coaxial SPDIF coming from my CD player (a lowly but sweet and musical sounding Cambridge D300) is just a hair better than USB gen 5 (PC running Windows 10 / Wasapi / Foobar). Better meaning ever so slightly more detailed or focused, a "better lit" image so to speak. However, the difference was extremely small, to the point that I'm not sure I could identify which is which in a DBT. I was very impressed with the USB. Please take into account there are plenty of factors that would influence the result: the actual transport used (a consumer grade Nad CD player was worse sounding than the Cambridge as a transport and therefore worse than the USB gen 5; on the other hand, there are much better CD transports out there), the SPDIF cable and connectors, some also claim a difference due to the USB cable, tweaking software such as Fidelizer etc. So as a general rule, I think we can safely say that the USB Gen 5 is competitive with the coaxial SPDIF, but I think it can be bettered by the coax - might be expensive though. I wouldn't loose sleep over it...



The difference is negligible!
USB 5 is really good. I challenge anybody to be able to point out which is which in a blind test.


----------



## artur9

hikaru12 said:


> Thanks for the response. I was thinking of getting an Eitr but if it's a incremental upgrade then I'll save money for the USB cable itself. I was thinking of getting a AudioQuest Forest cable or Starlight. Don't know if the quality of the cable will matter as much with the Gen 5 USB but if I can save myself some money on the cable then I'd rather go that route.



That's interesting.  I would have thought the Eitr a better "investment" than the cable.  What's influencing your thinking here?


----------



## RCBinTN

When I upgraded my Gungnir to GMB, I noticed a definite increase in the bass quantity with my HD800.
With the LCD-4, the bass is fantastic...of course, part of that is the HPs themselves.

I found the Gen 5 upgrade to be a very nice improvement as well. Rock solid and better SQ than using an optical connection.
The source was the same - Macbook Pro with JRMC22. Nothing else between the computer and GMB, just a USB cable or toslink cable.


----------



## Phasor

Well I've been lurking here for some time following the comments and advice of many of you. Today I bit the bullet and ordered a Gumby and a Jotunheim. For the last year I've been using a Lry 2 and a Bimby for DAC and amp and have really enjoyed the combo but ready for the next step. Many thanks to all of you who have posted their experiences with the Gumby as that influenced my decision greatly....now the wait begins.

Phasor


----------



## ColtMrFire

Congrats, killer combo I'm sure.


----------



## Phasor

Thanks...I do love the sound signature of the Bimby and I'm sure that I will enjoy the Gumby even more.




ColtMrFire said:


> Congrats, killer combo I'm sure.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Gumby has been pretty stable after the 48 hour mark.  Incredible sound top to bottom, just an orgasmic musical experience that I feel very blessed to have experienced.

But tonight, after almost a week of being left on, I sensed more changes... it was not subtle.  More refinement top to bottom, more texture, more smoothness... but I have stopped listening to let it settle.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Okay, so What....?

I'm not trying to be one of these audio nutcases who claims their DAC got twice as good in the span of a few hours, but that's pretty much what happened.  How can this be?  Gumby suddenly took on levels of refinement, smoothness, ease, power and REALISM I didn't think it was capable of.  It literally went up a notch or two and damn near brings tears to my eyes listening to music!  Whereas before it was an amazing DAC, it's now almost indescribable... any sense of there being a DAC is gone, and it's just realistic music.

I'm not even sure how this is possible.  @Baldr you mad genius.


----------



## Ojisan

ColtMrFire said:


> Okay, so What....?
> 
> I'm not trying to be one of these audio nutcases who claims their DAC got twice as good in the span of a few hours, but that's pretty much what happened.  How can this be?  Gumby suddenly took on levels of refinement, smoothness, ease, power and REALISM I didn't think it was capable of.  It literally went up a notch or two and damn near brings tears to my eyes listening to music!  Whereas before it was an amazing DAC, it's now almost indescribable... any sense of there being a DAC is gone, and it's just realistic music.
> 
> I'm not even sure how this is possible.  @Baldr you mad genius.



This time of the day often brings magical moments for me and I can't find it next morning  I think I need to work on cleaning up my power source...


----------



## ColtMrFire

Ojisan said:


> This time of the day often brings magical moments for me and I can't find it next morning  I think I need to work on cleaning up my power source...



My system benefited greatly from a power conditioner.


----------



## feelingears (Jan 24, 2018)

ColtMrFire said:


> My system benefited greatly from a power conditioner.





ColtMrFire said:


> Okay, so What....?
> 
> I'm not trying to be one of these audio nutcases who claims their DAC got twice as good in the span of a few hours, but that's pretty much what happened.  How can this be?  Gumby suddenly took on levels of refinement, smoothness, ease, power and REALISM I didn't think it was capable of.  It literally went up a notch or two and damn near brings tears to my eyes listening to music!  Whereas before it was an amazing DAC, it's now almost indescribable... any sense of there being a DAC is gone, and it's just realistic music.
> 
> I'm not even sure how this is possible.  @Baldr you mad genius.



@ColtMrFire A rando comment to add to yours: Same experience here with my Gumby. I often hear a cymbal or snare or something as I listen casually and think, "man that is the closest I've heard to real in my room, ever." My attention is just constantly being drawn back to the music. And the PRAT is outta this world; Naim no longer have a monopoly on that quality.


----------



## hikaru12 (Jan 24, 2018)

artur9 said:


> would have thought the Eitr a better "investment" than the cable. What's influencing your thinking here?



If the Gen 5 USB is equivalent or has minor sonic differences compared to the Gumbys best source connection (coaxial) then it wouldn't make sense to get one. I think the only gamechanger comes with a Yggy and AES with something like a Mutec 1.3.



ColtMrFire said:


> It literally went up a notch or two and damn near brings tears to my eyes listening to music!



I hope you're not getting my hopes up man! Tomorrow I get paid so I'm placing my order then and since I'm redoing my main gaming PC to match my new bamboo desk and listening area I'll have plenty of time to heat mine up in the meantime.

If I can smooth out my SDR modded 800s even more and bring out their dynamics then it may be my end game for sure. If not, I can't wait till my Atticus comes in.


----------



## ColtMrFire

800/Gumby combo should be endgame enough if you have a decent amp.


----------



## alpovs

ColtMrFire said:


> My system benefited greatly from a power conditioner.


Could you share what power conditioner you have?


----------



## KeithEmo

I can make three suggestions.... and I suspect that it's probably a combination of all three.

1) How we perceive things is strongly affected by everything from our expectations to the mood we're in. Therefore, the exact same thing can sound far different when we feel good instead of tired, or when we're in a good mood, or when we expect it to sound better or worse for some reason.

2) We humans have our own form of "burn in". We grow accustomed to differences over time, at which point they come to seem "the norm". The piece of equipment that sounds "a little odd" today tends to become tomorrow's normal. Therefore, you may simply be becoming accustomed to what the DAC sounds like, and so better able to "hear past it" to what's playing. (And, yes, "it may take less time to get used to equipment that has fewer flaws we need to learn to overlook".)

3) I could be pedantic and suggest that, just possibly, its performance actually does improve when it warms up - which might simply suggest that it doesn't perform up to spec when it's cold.




ColtMrFire said:


> Okay, so What....?
> 
> I'm not trying to be one of these audio nutcases who claims their DAC got twice as good in the span of a few hours, but that's pretty much what happened.  How can this be?  Gumby suddenly took on levels of refinement, smoothness, ease, power and REALISM I didn't think it was capable of.  It literally went up a notch or two and damn near brings tears to my eyes listening to music!  Whereas before it was an amazing DAC, it's now almost indescribable... any sense of there being a DAC is gone, and it's just realistic music.
> 
> I'm not even sure how this is possible.  @Baldr you mad genius.


----------



## ColtMrFire

alpovs said:


> Could you share what power conditioner you have?



Belking PF60.  Got it for $60 on craigslist.  Worth every penny and more.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Listening this morning, and it's the same result.  The Gumby definitely had a "sound" before.... "character".... it was extremely good at resolving every last detail, but it had a slight coloration to let you know there was a DAC in the chain.  Now it sounds like nothing at all.  Like there is nothing but the recording... and it sounds spookily realistic.


----------



## RCBinTN

ColtMrFire said:


> 800/Gumby combo should be endgame enough if you have a decent amp.


Well, it was for me. I didn't feel the need to continue searching for a rig to drive the HD800. You're right, still need a decent amp...
All I did along the way was complement the HD800 with an Audez'e can for different music genres. Some folks use ZMF cans as the complement.
HD800 for acoustic, classical and jazz. LCD-4 for rock, electric blues/fusion and the occasional metal.
Happy Listening!
RCB


----------



## hikaru12

RCBinTN said:


> Well, it was for me. I didn't feel the need to continue searching for a rig to drive the HD800. You're right, still need a decent amp...
> All I did along the way was complement the HD800 with an Audez'e can for different music genres. Some folks use ZMF cans as the complement.
> HD800 for acoustic, classical and jazz. LCD-4 for rock, electric blues/fusion and the occasional metal.
> Happy Listening!
> RCB



Yeah that's basically my setup right now. 800s for beats, instrumentals and Atticus for vocals. I'm about ready to ditch the 800's for a while at least because while I thought I always loved and wanted detail it can get fatiguing after a while. It's always cool to hear more nuances in your music but you're not analyzing 24/7 otherwise you're not really listening to the music. And for vocals, I prefer a more forward mid-range that even with equalization never reaches that liquid smoothness that makes vocals really pop out in music. Amp right now is the Valhalla 2, if I do decide to keep them probably will go to Black Widow or ZDS.



ColtMrFire said:


> Belking PF60.  Got it for $60 on craigslist.  Worth every penny and more.



Seems like they discontinued this model.


----------



## RCBinTN

KeithEmo said:


> I can make three suggestions.... and I suspect that it's probably a combination of all three.
> 
> 1) How we perceive things is strongly affected by everything from our expectations to the mood we're in. Therefore, the exact same thing can sound far different when we feel good instead of tired, or when we're in a good mood, or when we expect it to sound better or worse for some reason.
> 
> ...


Great post, Keith. I find it true when switching between my HD800 and LCD-4.
Takes my brain awhile to re-calibrate to the different sound.
So, I rarely switch every day. Instead, listen for a few days/weeks to one or the other.


----------



## ColtMrFire

hikaru12 said:


> Seems like they discontinued this model.



You'll have to find it used like I did.  There are also other great PW conditioners out there.  I've heard great things about Emotiva 
CMX-2 and 6.  I would take some time and do some research because there are also some lousy conditioners out there that will compromise SQ.


----------



## ColtMrFire

While the Gumby now sounds technically much better, it lost a bit of euphony and character that I really liked.  And it sounds slightly more harsh.  I am wondering if it will continue to evolve and smooth out and get some character back.  Otherwise I may have to roll in warmer tubes.


----------



## gwitzel

ColtMrFire said:


> While the Gumby now sounds technically much better, it lost a bit of euphony and character that I really liked.  And it sounds slightly more harsh.  I am wondering if it will continue to evolve and smooth out and get some character back.  Otherwise I may have to roll in warmer tubes.



This is something I experienced, too. Or it was my way to look at it first. But I realized for me that the 'harshness' is the other side of the realism, and actually in live music you will hear often rather harsh moments... I feel this is a matter of taste and aesthetics. I got used to it and crave the slightly harder presentation in the mean time because it sounds so very realistic.

Having said this, replacing my Parasound amplifier chain with Vidar and Freya has mitigated the harshness by simply projecting a much larger room and making eveything more spacious. But you are listening to headphones, and that is a different matter.


----------



## ColtMrFire

gwitzel said:


> This is something I experienced, too. Or it was my way to look at it first. But I realized for me that the 'harshness' is the other side of the realism, and actually in live music you will hear often rather harsh moments... I feel this is a matter of taste and aesthetics. I got used to it and crave the slightly harder presentation in the mean time because it sounds so very realistic.
> 
> Having said this, replacing my Parasound amplifier chain with Vidar and Freya has mitigated the harshness by simply projecting a much larger room and making eveything more spacious. But you are listening to headphones, and that is a different matter.



Yes, I love the realism and yes, real music can definitely sound a bit harsh sometimes, but my T90s already elevated treble, so they are not tonally accurate.  I am planning on getting the HD800 back and it's treble is much more tame in comparison, so I should be fine.

I am really surprised because Lyr 2 is supposed to be one of the warmer Schiit amps, but it sounds dead neutral with no warmth.  But I imagine, like most any new component, it takes a while to get used to the new sound and adjust.  I am totally loving Gumby, but it was a pretty big shift last night that I need to adjust to.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Was wondering if anyone (using Gumby) has gone from Lyr 2 to MJ2 and noticed an improvement?  I am seriously considering MJ2, but I would have to get balanced cables and I am trying to avoid that.  Isn't Lyr 2 basically a single ended MJ2?  Or is there some room for improvement?


----------



## winders

Why would you buy a Gumby and then want to avoid using a balanced setup? Balanced out of Gumby sounds better than summed single ended.

The MJ2 is a a step up from the Lyr 2. When I had my Yggdrasil, using balanced interconnects and a balanced headphone cable made a noticeable difference in sound quality with my HD 650 headphones.


----------



## RCBinTN

winders said:


> Why would you buy a Gumby and then want to avoid using a balanced setup? Balanced out of Gumby sounds better than summed single ended.
> 
> The MJ2 is a a step up from the Lyr 2. When I had my Yggdrasil, using balanced interconnects and a balanced headphone cable made a noticeable difference in sound quality with my HD 650 headphones.


I agree with this approach, ColtMrFire. I bought the original Gungnir and Mjolnir so that I could go balanced. Not looking back...it's the way to go.
If you want input on how the MJ2 pairs with HD800, I know that @MattTCG has personal experience. He's receptive to PM's.
And, the GMB + MJ2 would be a very nice rig for many HPs, IMO. Rock on, mate!


----------



## hikaru12

winders said:


> Why would you buy a Gumby and then want to avoid using a balanced setup? Balanced out of Gumby sounds better than summed single ended.
> 
> The MJ2 is a a step up from the Lyr 2. When I had my Yggdrasil, using balanced interconnects and a balanced headphone cable made a noticeable difference in sound quality with my HD 650 headphones.



When you make claims like that you should specify exactly what gets better. In my experience, balanced has only led to a blacker background and raised the volume due to the extra gain. It's certainly not night and day and a lot of headphones use those connectors without being internally balanced. The Mjolnir has had a higher than average of RMA's issued for it per the Impressions thread. It's only good if you want tube flavoring over a solid state punchiness. It doesn't offer the full benefits of tube (sound stage, micro-details, etc.) but offers a few drawbacks of solid state (dry, bright, etchy sound that can be remedied with the right tubes). Some headphones that prefer OTL's don't work well with it but I've heard it does nicely with Planars.


----------



## MattTCG (Jan 24, 2018)

hikaru12 said:


> When you make claims like that you should specify exactly what gets better. In my experience, balanced has only led to a blacker background and raised the volume due to the extra gain. It's certainly not night and day and a lot of headphones use those connectors without being internally balanced. The Mjolnir has had a higher than average of RMA's issued for it per the Impressions thread. It's only good if you want tube flavoring over a solid state punchiness. It doesn't offer the full benefits of tube (sound stage, micro-details, etc.) but offers a few drawbacks of solid state (dry, bright, etchy sound that can be remedied with the right tubes). Some headphones that prefer OTL's don't work well with it but I've heard it does nicely with Planars.



Regarding your comment to @winders ....he is on target regarding the Gumby being a better performer over a balanced connection to the amp. I've owned the Gumby and have gone back and forth, balanced and SE, many times and the difference is clear. Think of the Gumby as being designed with a balanced connection in mind with the SE RCA out there for convenience but not offering the best performance.

There is nothing "dry and etchy" about the mjo2 with tubes either. I can't speak for the solid state configuration though. But with tubes this is a "wetter" sound with loads of dynamics. That's how I hear it anyway.


----------



## ColtMrFire

winders said:


> Why would you buy a Gumby and then want to avoid using a balanced setup?



Because from everything I've read, the Gumby's SE outputs are not gimped, and perfectly fine.  Balanced means you have the buy more cables, and the ones I have were already expensive enough.  I would rather avoid it unless the benefits are worth expending even more money besides a new amp.  There are more expensive amps better than Lyr 2 that wouldn't require me to go balanced, which is a cost savings for me.  I am inquiring about MJ2 though because I like Schiit products, but there would need to be an obvious jump in SQ for it to be worth it.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Jan 24, 2018)

MattTCG said:


> Regarding your comment to @winders ....he is on target regarding the Gumby being a better performer over a balanced connection to the amp. I've owned the Gumby and have gone back and forth, balanced and SE, many times and the difference is clear. Think of the Gumby as being designed with a balanced connection in mind with the SE RCA out there for convenience but not offering the best performance.



From what I gather, Schiit's circlotron technology (in the MJ2 and Ragnarok) definitely require balanced because the SE inputs/outputs are gimped, meaning they are there mostly for convenience, and the amps are designed to be used balanced.  Gumby is not a circlotron design, so I am skeptical that the SE outputs are inadequate vs. balanced.  I am not doubting balanced probably sounds a bit better, but if I had to live with Gumby SE forever, I would not be losing sleep over it because it sounds sublime.

But it sounds MJ2 is a very nice amp and probably a step up from Lyr 2 from what I'm gathering.  I'd just need to get new cables, and I really don't like having to buy extra components just for the sake of using a new amp.  Especially when there are other amps that sound great and don't require balanced.


----------



## RCBinTN

Thanks, @MattTCG for chiming in here.
Spot on, as always...

As for the comment about "dry, bright, etchy sound" from a SS amp...
I don't hear any of that from my BHA-1. It's a resolving, musical and fun amp.

I am sure the MJ2 is, as well.

And, Mr. Colt, I don't think you'll have a bad experience on SE connections.
I understand the cost of new cables. 
Just enjoy your music...which I sincerely feel you are already doing!

All the Best -
RCB


----------



## ColtMrFire

Yes.  Gumby is actually really making me appreciate the Lyr2 even more.  The amp scaled up right along with the DAC.  But Lyr 2 is end of the line when it comes to SE Schiit amps... everything higher up needs balanced.  So I may have to look elsewhere for a new amp.  I have heard great things about Black Widow, Mainline, Sonett, Torpedo III, and I put an ad up looking for any of those amps.


----------



## winders

Gumby is better using its balanced outputs........


----------



## ColtMrFire

I find most components with balanced outputs are going to always sound a bit better using balanced.  I'm not disputing that.


----------



## ColtMrFire

A quick listen after getting home from work, and it sounds tonally less sterile and more natural, but not quite the way it was tonally before... but I feel like it is still improving.  Timbre of instruments still sounds a bit off.


----------



## rkw

ColtMrFire said:


> I'd just need to get new cables, and I really don't like having to buy extra components just for the sake of using a new amp.


You seem to be needlessly making cables a stumbling block for yourself. Schiit's PYST balanced cables are $40/pair and 9" long for connecting stacked components.


----------



## ColtMrFire

It's more about being satisfied with the SQ of the brand I already own.  I've tried alot of cables and Morrow cables have me satisfied.  The version I have is not cheap, but not expensive, but I'd have to get a new balanced pair to keep the sound I like.  Plus a balanced cable for the my eventual HD800.  It is not a cheap expenditure, so I need to take this all into account.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I want to thank everyone for all their replies, even if we don't always see eye to eye.  This is a great community and a fun, rewarding hobby.

That said, the sound out of the Gumby now has completely toppled my perception of how you're supposed to enjoy music.  I will try to explain this the best way I can... basically things sound so realistic, they are less "showy".  When you're in a real room with real instruments, sounds are coming at you from across the room... there is oxygen in the room, and room reflections come into play... other DACs I've owned have rendered these sounds in a "showy" manner, meaning it sounds like it has "character", a "look at me!" nature to the sound where everything actually seems louder and more in your face, more in line with headphone listening, where your ears are so close to the drivers, everything seems more flashy.

The Gumby is now completely altering the nature of the way the music is coming out of the drivers.  For instance, in an orchestral recording, sounds coming at you (the mics) no longer sound showy, but almost quieter and more subdued, even though they are more striking, realistic and powerful.  This sounds like a contradiction, but that's the nature of live sounds... they are sound waves traveling through oxygen to reach your ears, and this is what the Gumby is giving me now.  I am having to turn the volume up to get the same impact as I was before, but this actually is a bad idea, as loud sounds are still loud, they just seem less impactful because they are sound waves traveling through oxygen to reach your ears.  So it becomes deceptively easy to harm your ears.  In this way, I am having to re-adjust my listening habit to take in all the incredible detail without being wowed by the showy nature of the affair.  It is music traveling through oxygen to reach my ears, like any live setting and live settings are not like headphone listening.

Another benefit is that albums I thought were badly mastered actually sound incredible.  A couple movie score albums (Return of the Jedi, Final Fantasy The Spirits Within) really caught my attention.  With my previous DACs (even the Mimby) these albums sounded muffled and indistinct compared to some of the better mastered material.  Listening now, there is so much more realism and clarity that it is a whole new (and better) experience listening to them.  Again, they just sound REAL, with little to no sense of any mastering process taking place to give the sound any "character".  The only character I can discern are the placement of microphones in the room, which is different with every recording.  Whereas previously these albums gave a sense of there being something in the way... a shoddy mastering job or something.  Not really so anymore.  I have not yet explored my really badly mastered junk albums, so I'm not sure how far this phenomenon can go.

I still have a feeling the sound is still settling in though because there is still a kind of hardness/roughness to the sound, that is especially apparent in the treble... it is kind of lacking the smoothness/liquidity that was there before, but it has been a fun eye opening experience letting this DAC warm up.


----------



## makan

Hi All.  New Gumby and Bimby owner for a week here as I was curious about the Schiit multibit DACs.  I am thinking that my ears seem to not be able to appreciate DAC differences, as I have hooked up my current Gungnir DS, Gumby and Bimby to my BHA-1 and honestly, if it was a blind test, I would not be able to pick my preferences....they all sound darn good!  Am I a rare breed on multibit vs DS, not being able to appreciate the difference...perhaps ignorance is bliss, in which case, I will put up the Gumby for sale...then will decide between Gungnir DS and Bimby.  Any thoughts and suggestions?


----------



## makan

I should add that each sounds just slightly different, but I don't think one is necessarily better or worse to my ears.....nor can I describe the differences in words


----------



## ColtMrFire (Jan 26, 2018)

makan said:


> Hi All.  New Gumby and Bimby owner for a week here as I was curious about the Schiit multibit DACs.  I am thinking that my ears seem to not be able to appreciate DAC differences, as I have hooked up my current Gungnir DS, Gumby and Bimby to my BHA-1 and honestly, if it was a blind test, I would not be able to pick my preferences....they all sound darn good!  Am I a rare breed on multibit vs DS, not being able to appreciate the difference...perhaps ignorance is bliss, in which case, I will put up the Gumby for sale...then will decide between Gungnir DS and Bimby.  Any thoughts and suggestions?



There is a misconception about blind testing that is deceptive.  I suggest you read @Baldr excellent post on the subject:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...obable-start-up.701900/page-516#post_11921090

If I were you, I would live with Gumby for at least another week or so before making a decision (without doing any switching back and forth, and if you must blind test, do it the correct way like baldr explains at the link).  I have not owned a Bimby, but reports are that it is very close to (or equal to) the Mimby, which I did own for a long time.  Gumby is a clear upgrade over Mimby, so I suspect it is also a clear upgrade over Bimby.  Gumby is honestly the best piece of audio gear I've ever owned.

You also did not state what headphones you are using.


----------



## RCBinTN

ColtMrFire said:


> There is a misconception about blind testing that is deceptive.  I suggest you read @Baldr excellent post on the subject:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...obable-start-up.701900/page-516#post_11921090
> 
> ...


I think that's good advice about keeping the GMB for awhile longer.

When I upgraded from Gungnir to GMB, I could hear a clear difference. 
But, I didn't have a Gungnir sitting there to A/B.

Thanks too for the link to Mike's old A/B post.  His approach makes a ton of sense. 

It takes the brain a certain amount of time to re-calibrate to a new rig/sound/headphone, at least for me.
For example, every time I switch between headphones, the HD800 sound bright and the LCD-4 sound dark. 
It just takes a bit of time for me to get used to the new sound.

Happy Listening!
RCBinTN


----------



## RCBinTN

Oh, and BTW Mr. Colt...the MJ2 does support SE inputs.
I'm guessing you already knew that


----------



## makan

Thanks for the advice @ColtMrFire and @RCBinTN 
Kinda hoping that the small differences I detect A/Bing don't get bigger so that I can save some money!  However, if I do perceive a huge improvement, that would certainly get me closer to the Edge of Heaven!


----------



## makan

ColtMrFire said:


> You also did not state what headphones you are using.


My main hps are the LCD-XC, HD800, Oppo PM-1 and HE-6


----------



## RCBinTN

You bet, mate. 
It's not just a hobby, it's an adventure.


----------



## RCBinTN

You know...I should have checked your inventory. You also have the BHA-1, same amp as me!
Then, believe it, the GMB in another week of thermal equilibrium, will knock your socks off.
(I know how good the BHA-1 is!)
OK - start listening - I'll be back


----------



## ColtMrFire

I'm about 9 days into warm up and it seems to keep improving.


----------



## makan

Wow, 9 days! I am on day 7. We shall see


----------



## Phasor (Jan 26, 2018)

Well hopefully I will be joining you guys soon. I was notified by Shiit that there is a production delay on the Gumby...so it will be sometime in Feb before I get mine and the Jotunheim  that I ordered with it. I still have my Lyr 2 and Bimby so it won't be an unbearable wait. Anyway, I will follow this thread and look forward to your comments as your Gumby's continue to improve.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Let us know how Jotunheim/Gumby compares to Lyr2/Gumby if possible.  I am considering Jot.


----------



## Phasor

ColtMrFire said:


> Let us know how Jotunheim/Gumby compares to Lyr2/Gumby if possible. I am considering Jot.



Yes, I will report back after letting the Gumby burn in for a few days. I do look forward to the comparison between Gumby and Bimby. Also, between the Jotie and the Lyr 2.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Phasor said:


> Yes, I will report back after letting the Gumby burn in for a few days. I do look forward to the comparison between Gumby and Bimby. Also, between the Jotie and the Lyr 2.



Gumby underwent two distinct changes for me.  After about 2 days when it became magic, and then after about a week, where it became more neutral and less warm and more realistic.  But I got a used one, so it was already burned in.  Not sure what will happen with a new unit.


----------



## Phasor

coltmrfire I will let you know. It seemed to me that after my Bimby had about 100 hours it really became more musical. I'm not very good with all the audiophile buzz words. I just know that time disappear when I get into a listening session and tubes in the Lyr 2 get warmed up. I'm sure that the jot/gumby or lyr2/gumby or jot/bimby will be fun to try.


----------



## Raptor34

Phasor said:


> Well hopefully I will be joining you guys soon. I was notified by Shiit that there is a production delay on the Gumby...so it will be sometime in Feb before I get mine and the Jotunheim  that I ordered with it. I still have my Lyr 2 and Bimby so it won't be an unbearable wait. Anyway, I will follow this thread and look forward to your comments as your Gumby's continue to improve.


Schiit site says they ARE in stock and ready to ship in their usual 1-3 days.


----------



## rkw

Raptor34 said:


> Schiit site says they ARE in stock and ready to ship in their usual 1-3 days.


He had direct communication, which would be the most accurate estimate. Jason has posted that the website is not always up to date, and to email them for latest information.


----------



## Raptor34

rkw said:


> He had direct communication, which would be the most accurate estimate. Jason has posted that the website is not always up to date, and to email them for latest information.


Oh no, this might mean a new analog board.    Mine is only a month old.   ARGH


----------



## Phasor

Well they told me that it would be early February on my order. But, it might just be the multibit version that is held up...don't know they didn't say. Just this: *Order Status:* Gungnir production delay. Sorry that I don't have more info.


----------



## Phasor

Here is the email they sent.


Thank you for your order.  Based on current part projections, it looks like it will be back in production by early February.  Tracking information will be emailed when the order ships so you can watch for FedEx's estimated delivery date.

Laura Zeman
Schiit Audio
Customer Service


----------



## SilverEars

artur9 said:


> Also, Gumby is balanced which makes a difference to some (like me).
> 
> IIRC, Nelson Pass said a subtle amount of 2nd order distortion in his amps made people hear a deeper soundstage.  That surprised him but if that's what the customer wants....


That's an interesting statement by Pass.  I have heard people say particular tube amps creates a bit of an expanded perception of space.  Tubes are known to add harmonic distortions.  I wonder if there are details in how the added harmonic distortions creates a sense of expanded space.


----------



## Raptor34

Phasor said:


> Well they told me that it would be early February on my order. But, it might just be the multibit version that is held up...don't know they didn't say. Just this: *Order Status:* Gungnir production delay. Sorry that I don't have more info.


Oh, I see, I think.  Anyway, I have mine (gumby)  and love it.  Sorry you have to wait.  Have a good weekend anyway.
Cheers


----------



## artur9

ColtMrFire said:


> Gumby underwent two distinct changes for me.  After about 2 days when it became magic, and then after about a week, where it became more neutral and less warm and more realistic.  But I got a used one, so it was already burned in.  Not sure what will happen with a new unit.


I have my impressions when my Gumby came somewhere in this thread.  My experience was similar to yours but I didn't notice any more changes after about a week.  There was one day in there where it got worse then it got better again (yay!).


----------



## Phasor

Raptor34 said:


> Oh, I see, I think. Anyway, I have mine (gumby) and love it. Sorry you have to wait. Have a good weekend anyway.
> Cheers



I do look forward to receiving mine. And the Jotie that I ordered with it.


----------



## Raptor34

Phasor said:


> I do look forward to receiving mine. And the Jotie that I ordered with it.



That's the same combo I'm using.    I hope you like  them as much as I do.


----------



## hikaru12

Raptor34 said:


> That's the same combo I'm using.    I hope you like  them as much as I do.



I plan on using that combo myself for the HD800's (for gaming though). I've decided to regulate them to that duty so I can make use of the balanced inputs as there are rarely OTL amps that are fully balanced.


----------



## Phasor

Raptor34 said:


> Oh, I see, I think.  Anyway, I have mine (gumby)  and love it.  Sorry you have to wait.  Have a good weekend anyway.
> Cheers



Just got an email from Shiit and my order shipped today! So, will have it sooner than I thought.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 29, 2018)

For those that has compared Gumby to Yggy.  Does Yggy sound edgy or a bit treble boosted in comparison?


----------



## ColtMrFire

I never directly compared them, but I did listen to Yggy last year.  There was never a problem with the treble.  It was smooth and detailed.  Yggy is supposed to be slightly more analytical than Gumby, more precise, but not in a way that is "treble boosted" from what I understand.


----------



## SilverEars (Jan 29, 2018)

ColtMrFire said:


> I never directly compared them, but I did listen to Yggy last year.  There was never a problem with the treble.  It was smooth and detailed.  Yggy is supposed to be slightly more analytical than Gumby, more precise, but not in a way that is "treble boosted" from what I understand.


Perhaps less mid presence?  Gumby is said to be warmer, and I'm guessing it's due to a slight mid boost, or even lower frequencies?  You can hear the differences from piano notes for warmth level.

The way the treble is presented for the Yggy, does it sound grainier or thinner?


----------



## shultzee

SilverEars said:


> For those that has compared Gumby to Yggy.  Does Yggy sound edgy or a bit treble boosted in comparison?



I had a gumby and then yggy back to back a couple of years go.   At that time I felt in no way did the yggy  justify a additional 1k .  To me the Yggy was also a little bright. 
That was before Gen. 5 , new analog board etc. so I have no idea of the current comparison.  I recently purchased another Gumby with gen 5 and couldn't be happier.


----------



## ColtMrFire

SilverEars said:


> Perhaps less mid presence?  Gumby is said to be warmer, and I'm guessing it's due to a slight mid boost, or even lower frequencies?  You can hear the differences from piano notes for warmth level.
> 
> The way the treble is presented for the Yggy, does it sound grainier or thinner?



There is nothing "less" about Yggy.  It is basically very similar to Gumby, just slightly more refined and more resolution, which makes it seem less "warm".  Gumby's warmth comes more from it's more laid back, euphonic nature, slightly less analytical.  

I'm wondering why you are so concerned about this?  From my experience you will no problems with the Yggy's treble.  Your treble "problems" are going to come from headphones/amps.


----------



## Ojisan

SilverEars said:


> For those that has compared Gumby to Yggy.  Does Yggy sound edgy or a bit treble boosted in comparison?



I had both for just over a week together this last November when I was choosing my DAC. My conclusion was that Gumby presented slightly elevated lower mid/bass that could be called (very slightly ) marginally bloomy/warm. What tipped my decision was the Yggy's ability to resolve the treble tone (tonality and texture of hi-hats, rides, ambiance, spatial cues). Gumby seemed to sound a bit rougher in that area. It was most obvious with some modern Jazz/Fusion with intricate drum work. 

I think both DACs present similar balance overall and great tonality. I tend to prefer a good spatial sound when I am immersed in music and Yggy stood out for me. 

Few notes for reference: 

I don't think neither Gumby nor Yggy were warmed fully. They were on all the time as much as my time allowed. My Yggy takes 5-7 days for the case-top to reach 100 deg F and few more days to reach the stable 104 deg. 
Both Gumby and Yggy were Gen5 USB. Yggy was (unknowingly) Analog-2  
Front end used for comparison consisted of Stax SRS3100 (via unbalanced), HD800/HD600/Focal Clear balanced out of Jot.
I'm ok with stock HD800 treble but enjoying it better with SDR and Anaxilus mod (so I'm not treble sensitive as some)
Music used were Classical (various Beethoven by Berliner/Wiener Philharmoniker, piano works by Argerich/Uchida/Horowitz, Rampal/Galway Flute concertos, guitar works by Andrew York/Yamashita, etc), Jazz (Metheny, Allan Holdsworth, Fourplay, Hiromi, Coltrane, etc), Acoustic (Michael Hedges, Tommy Emmanuel, Masaaki Kishibe, etc) etc


----------



## RCBinTN

I think the "edgy" comments about Yggy come because the DAC is so resolving.
So, it brings all the other components in the rig under the magnifier.

Especially the amplifier. With a more harsh or cold SS amp, the Yggy could sound brighter.

I heard Yggy #1 with the Rag and the pairing was great. 
I also heard Yggy #1 with the Woo Audio 5. That pairing was better.
Why? Perhaps the mellowness of the WA5 tamed the Yggy's brightness just a bit. Both were great, however.

FWIW, I don't hear much uber-brightness from my GMB.
I think it's just right


----------



## RCBinTN

Ojisan said:


> I had both for just over a week together this last November when I was choosing my DAC. My conclusion was that Gumby presented slightly elevated lower mid/bass that could be called (very slightly ) marginally bloomy/warm. What tipped my decision was the Yggy's ability to resolve the treble tone (tonality and texture of hi-hats, rides, ambiance, spatial cues). Gumby seemed to sound a bit rougher in that area. It was most obvious with some modern Jazz/Fusion with intricate drum work.
> 
> I think both DACs present similar balance overall and great tonality. I tend to prefer a good spatial sound when I am immersed in music and Yggy stood out for me.
> 
> ...


That's a great post, IMO.
Well done, @Ojisan!


----------



## Ojisan

RCBinTN said:


> That's a great post, IMO.
> Well done, @Ojisan!



Thanks! I've learned a bunch here and just trying to give back what I can.

Funny how the name Yamashi-ta was automatically flagged to ****... haha


----------



## RCBinTN

For sure - the auto-censor feature of this platform is very strong. You have to spell it Schiit.  
So wondering...do you think the better drum/cymbal resolution could be due to analog #2?

BTW, what a great guitar player Tommy Emmanuel is! He is a CGP - Certified Guitar Player - by Chet Atkins himself. 
There are only a handful of CGPs in the world.

Happy Listening!
RCB


----------



## Ojisan

RCBinTN said:


> For sure - the auto-censor feature of this platform is very strong. You have to spell it Schiit.
> So wondering...do you think the better drum/cymbal resolution could be due to analog #2?



I don't know. Until the news broke earlier this month, I thought I was listening to the same Yggy as everybody else... 



RCBinTN said:


> BTW, what a great guitar player Tommy Emmanuel is! He is a CGP - Certified Guitar Player - by Chet Atkins himself.
> There are only a handful of CGPs in the world.
> 
> Happy Listening!
> RCB



Yeah, he puts on great shows too. Awesome music and personality!


----------



## Eldair

I have problem. I have 900€ and i would like to buy dac and i have think of Schiit Bimby or delta-sigma Gungnir. I have to live with it about 2-3 year so which would be better? Good about Gungnir is that i can upgrade when time comes. My amp is Mjolnir 2 and hp will be Sennheiser HD660S.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Why not just get a used Gumby?  You are in the ballpark price-wise.


----------



## Eldair

Well about used ones... Mrs have very bad experience so all we buy is new. And also not meny selling used in europe.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Jan 31, 2018)

Eldair said:


> Well about used ones... Mrs have very bad experience so all we buy is new. And also not meny selling used in europe.



Schiit makes very durable, long lasting products.  I don't forsee any problems buying used.  I've certainly never had any issues and I've bought alot of their used products.

In the unlikely case something does go wrong, they probably are fine fixing it for a fee.  You also have the option of sending a used Gumby in for the Gen5 usb upgrade, and I believe that automatically puts it back into the warranty.  But you should email Schiit and ask them.

What I'm saying is, you shouldn't write off used gear because of one bad experience.  But of course everything is on a case by case basis.  Schiit doesn't make shoddy gear.  You will end up saving money in the long run buying used too.

I tend to see quite alot of Euro Schiit gear selling on the classifieds.  You also have the option of putting up a WANTED ad for a used Gumby.  That's how I got mine.


----------



## goldsgym

Phasor said:


> Just got an email from Shiit and my order shipped today! So, will have it sooner than I thought.


How long ago did you place your order? I placed an order for the Gumby about a week and a half ago, but got an email from Schiit yesterday saying that it could be up to a few weeks before my order ships. This is a copy of the email:

Thank you for your order and we are sorry for the delay.  The Gungnir is experiencing unexpected production delays.  It could be a few weeks before the order is available to ship.  We will ship as soon as we can.

Laura Zeman
Schiit Audio
Customer Service


----------



## hikaru12

goldsgym said:


> How long ago did you place your order? I placed an order for the Gumby about a week and a half ago, but got an email from Schiit yesterday saying that it could be up to a few weeks before my order ships. This is a copy of the email:
> 
> Thank you for your order and we are sorry for the delay.  The Gungnir is experiencing unexpected production delays.  It could be a few weeks before the order is available to ship.  We will ship as soon as we can.
> 
> ...



Same thing here. Had I known there was a production delay I would have waited to place my order because now I'm without a DAC.


----------



## RCBinTN

They ship when in stock. Schiit doesn't rush to ship and compromise quality. 
That's a good policy, IMO.
Questions about your orders are best answered at orders@schiit.com.
FYI.


----------



## Phasor

goldsgym said:


> How long ago did you place your order? I placed an order for the Gumby about a week and a half ago, but got an email from Schiit yesterday saying that it could be up to a few weeks before my order ships



I placed my order online 01/23/18 in the AM. I also received the gungnir production delay email.


----------



## goldsgym

Phasor said:


> I placed my order online 01/23/18 in the AM. I also received the gungnir production delay email.


Wow, I'm surprised that mine hasn't shipped! I placed my order the same day, only it was in the evening. Who knew only a few hours could make such a big difference in shipping times!


----------



## jcn3 (Feb 1, 2018)

goldsgym said:


> Wow, I'm surprised that mine hasn't shipped! I placed my order the same day, only it was in the evening. Who knew only a few hours could make such a big difference in shipping times!



i think you all are assuming that schiit's availability on the web site is accurate, but it is usually not, particularly for products like the gumby and yggy.  took a several weeks to ship for me for something that was "in stock" on the web site.

i'm convinced schiit is always doing their best -- i'm on my third dac from them and have been pleased with them all.


----------



## Ableza

orders@schiit.com is the best way to check status.


----------



## goldsgym

Phasor said:


> Just got an email from Shiit and my order shipped today! So, will have it sooner than I thought.


What amp are you pairing your Gumby with?


----------



## Phasor

goldsgym said:


> What amp are you pairing your Gumby with?



I also purchased a Jotunheim with the Gumby but I still own a Lyr 2 and Bimby. It's only been running a day but I like the Jot and Gumby combo. Tonight I'm going to pair the Lyr 2 with the Gumby and see how I like that.


----------



## goldsgym

Phasor said:


> I also purchased a Jotunheim with the Gumby but I still own a Lyr 2 and Bimby. It's only been running a day but I like the Jot and Gumby combo. Tonight I'm going to pair the Lyr 2 with the Gumby and see how I like that.


Ah you are so lucky! I bought a Violectric V280 amp to go with my Gumby, so I've been listening out of the headphone port of my Macbook Air using a stereo to RCA cable. I originally bought the Jot w/DAC combo to go with my HD 800 S, and it was pretty good, but I felt that the V280/Gumby combo would be exceptional. What headphones are you using?


----------



## Phasor

goldsgym said:


> Ah you are so lucky! I bought a Violectric V280 amp to go with my Gumby, so I've been listening out of the headphone port of my Macbook Air using a stereo to RCA cable. I originally bought the Jot w/DAC combo to go with my HD 800 S, and it was pretty good, but I felt that the V280/Gumby combo would be exceptional. What headphones are you using?



I have some Mee audio P1 IEM's and Audeze LCD-2's. The Gumby is still settling in and is getting better and better. I have a balanced cable ordered for my LCD-2's. I'm listening now with Q Audio French silk cables but they aren't balanced but they do sound very good. Next upgrade will probably a new set of cans.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Phasor said:


> I also purchased a Jotunheim with the Gumby but I still own a Lyr 2 and Bimby. It's only been running a day but I like the Jot and Gumby combo. Tonight I'm going to pair the Lyr 2 with the Gumby and see how I like that.



Very interested in hearing Jot vs Lyr 2 (w/tubes) via Gumby.

But I would wait at least 2 or 3 days before doing serious comparisons.  Mine didn't really open up until about 7 days.  Gumby just gets better and better with time.


----------



## Phasor

ColtMrFire said:


> Very interested in hearing Jot vs Lyr 2 (w/tubes) via Gumby.
> 
> But I would wait at least 2 or 3 days before doing serious comparisons. Mine didn't really open up until about 7 days. Gumby just gets better and better with time.



It's only been about 40 hours since connected but I notice that it's better tonight than this morning. I'm listening with the Lyr2 right now with the Gumby and I like what I hear. There is more detail than the Bimby but the Bimby sounds great too! I will keep you updated as time goes on and the Gumby gets more hours. The Jot is also a joy to listen to connected to the Gumby. Frankly, I could live with either amp connected to the Gumby right now. Will keep listening. One thing is I certainly lose track of time when listening.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Yes, Gumby is addicting and it's easy to become unproductive.  I have to often force myself to stop listening.  Or sometimes the joy of listening becomes so overwhelming I have to take frequent breaks.

Gumby will probably start to "disappear" around the 7 day mark, where all that's left is THE RECORDING.


----------



## Phasor

ColtMrFire said:


> Yes, Gumby is addicting and it's easy to become unproductive. I have to often force myself to stop listening. Or sometimes the joy of listening becomes so overwhelming I have to take frequent breaks.
> 
> Gumby will probably start to "disappear" around the 7 day mark, where all that's left is THE RECORDING.



I'm enjoying the journey to the 7 day mark....


----------



## goldsgym

Phasor said:


> I'm enjoying the journey to the 7 day mark....


I just keep thinking of the possibilities if I had just placed my order in the morning of the 23rd instead of the evening


----------



## Phasor

goldsgym said:


> I just keep thinking of the possibilities if I had just placed my order in the morning of the 23rd instead of the evening



I was surprised when I got the shipping notice because they said early Feb on the Gungnir...It will be worth the wait...and I know that it sucks having to wait.


----------



## goldsgym (Feb 2, 2018)

Phasor said:


> I was surprised when I got the shipping notice because they said early Feb on the Gungnir...It will be worth the wait...and I know that it sucks having to wait.


Yeah, when you said that you got the shipping notice I began to get excited, thinking I may get one too  In good time though... I know it is going to be worth every penny. BTW, I have finally discovered the power of having a DAC, even a lower quality one. As I listen to the following chain I can hear all of the static coming through: Macbook Air (headphone out) --> Violectric V280 --> HD 800 S (balanced cable). The headphone out on a Macbook Air makes the Modi 2 Uber sound like gold. I can't even imagine how great the Gumby is going to sound.


----------



## RCBinTN

goldsgym said:


> Yeah, when you said that you got the shipping notice I began to get excited, thinking I may get one too  In good time though... I know it is going to be worth every penny. BTW, I have finally discovered the power of having a DAC, even a lower quality one. As I listen to the following chain I can hear all of the static coming through: Macbook Air (headphone out) --> Violectric V280 --> HD 800 S (balanced cable). The headphone out on a Macbook Air makes the Modi 2 Uber sound like gold. I can't even imagine how great the Gumby is going to sound.


The Gumby will be an amazing improvement to your listening experience. Enjoy!


----------



## Phasor

goldsgym said:


> Yeah, when you said that you got the shipping notice I began to get excited, thinking I may get one too  In good time though... I know it is going to be worth every penny. BTW, I have finally discovered the power of having a DAC, even a lower quality one. As I listen to the following chain I can hear all of the static coming through: Macbook Air (headphone out) --> Violectric V280 --> HD 800 S (balanced cable). The headphone out on a Macbook Air makes the Modi 2 Uber sound like gold. I can't even imagine how great the Gumby is going to sound.



Did you ever get a shipping notice? Mine has been powered six days now and I just get lost in the music...it's a keeper. Looks like I'll be selling the Bimby.


----------



## RCBinTN

You know...the music sounds so good that I've experienced a few of "those" moments lately.
Not sure how to describe it. Amazement and joy come to mind.
The equipment just disappears and only the music is there.
A very nice place to be. We have the genius of @Baldr to thank for these experiences.

As Tom Johnston sang "Whoa! Listen to the Music!"


----------



## goldsgym

Phasor said:


> Did you ever get a shipping notice? Mine has been powered six days now and I just get lost in the music...it's a keeper. Looks like I'll be selling the Bimby.


Nope, it still hasn't shipped. According to the website, orders placed now won't be shipped until about February 22nd. I'm not thrilled on this shipping timeframe to say the least.


----------



## Phasor

goldsgym said:


> Nope, it still hasn't shipped. According to the website, orders placed now won't be shipped until about February 22nd. I'm not thrilled on this shipping timeframe to say the least.



Wow....sorry to hear that. I wonder what the hold up is? I guess that was very lucky to have received mine.


----------



## Raptor34

Phasor said:


> Wow....sorry to hear that. I wonder what the hold up is? I guess that was very lucky to have received mine.


It might be the Analog Devices chip they use in the Gumby boards.   Hear they are hard to order in small numbers from the manufacturer.   I have had mine for almost two months now and believe me #goldsgym, it's worth the wait.
cheers..


----------



## RCBinTN

Naah it's the demand they have for other new devices.
Check out Jason's thread for details...read his latest chapters. He is fully transparent.

Schiit Audio is covered up. They aren't ordering DAC chips in small batches.
They're having trouble keeping up with orders.
The business is taking off, more than ever.

And, @Raptor34 is right, for sure, you won't be disappointed with your GMB!

FYI, Friends.
RCB


----------



## goldsgym

RCBinTN said:


> Naah it's the demand they have for other new devices.
> Check out Jason's thread for details...read his latest chapters. He is fully transparent.
> 
> Schiit Audio is covered up. They aren't ordering DAC chips in small batches.
> ...


Thanks for all of the encouraging words guys! I just got my notice this morning that my order has shipped, so I am ecstatic about receiving my new Gumby!


----------



## Phasor

goldsgym said:


> Thanks for all of the encouraging words guys! I just got my notice this morning that my order has shipped, so I am ecstatic about receiving my new Gumby!



Good news! I know that you will be happy with the new Gumby. I am very pleased with mine. It's very easy to lose track of time listening to music through the Gumby.


----------



## Boogie7910

What should I have my sample rate and bit depth set at on windows 10? have a Gumby and Jot.


----------



## jcn3 (Feb 9, 2018)

Boogie7910 said:


> What should I have my sample rate and bit depth set at on windows 10? have a Gumby and Jot.



the gumby can handle up to 24/192.  in windows, you need to be using exclusive mode (on the advanced tab) so that your player has exclusive use of the dac.  from there you need to be using wasapi or asio in your player to bypass windows audio and set the max output there.


----------



## RCBinTN

Not sure about Windows 10, but I'm using JRiver that allows setting of those parameters.
The advice from other users was to not set them in JR but to allow the GMB to set them.
That's the role of Mike's closed program in the GMB.

So, I don't use JR to "upsample" to a higher sample rate or bit depth.
The SQ is great to me, with this setup...even on well-produced 320 MP3.
Most of my music is FLAC or ALAC. Some 24/96 and 24/192, but not much.

Happy Listening,
RCB


----------



## KeithEmo (Feb 9, 2018)

By default, Windows will resample whatever you play to whatever sample rate you have set as the default.
This is NOT what you want.

There is a mode called WASAPI mode that will override this behavior and cause Windows to output whatever you play in its native sample rate (the sample rate of the file itself).
This is something that you have to select or enable in your player program.
(You'll see it as an output option in jRiver; in Foobar2000 you need to install a free plugin called WASAPI; once you install that you'll see the WASAPI output options.)
In most players, these settings are independent of the Windows default settings, so those no longer matter.
Most players also allow you to select your output device SEPARATELY from the Windows default.

Note that, if you use programs like VLC, which _DO_ use the Windows default settings, then you'll need to set the defaults for them (otherwise no VLC, no Youtube, and no system sounds).
Set your Windows default output audio device to your new DAC, and pick any reasonable sample rate..... 44k is plenty good enough..... pick 96k if it makes you feel better 

(In programs that have the preferred WASAPI output option, you'll often see the less-preferred option referred to as "DS" or "kernel streaming".)

(In programs like Spotify, or when playing lossy files like Mp3 files, the actual sound quality is less than CD quality - and the numbers are NOT comparable - so "320k bps" is lower quality than a 44k CD. For those, a default setting of 44k will get you whatever quality is actually there, although, again, feel free to pick 96k if it makes you feel better.)



Boogie7910 said:


> What should I have my sample rate and bit depth set at on windows 10? have a Gumby and Jot.


----------



## Boogie7910

Great thanks


----------



## RCBinTN

Whew! That's why I use a Mac...


----------



## shultzee

RCBinTN said:


> Whew! That's why I use a Mac...



Same here.  Everything audio is a breeze.  Plug and play.


----------



## hikaru12

Just got my Gumby in. First of all this thing is massive. Second, only after an hour or so of powering it on - I'm lackluster. You can tell you have a lot of space around the music, it's super smooth, takes the mid forwardness and upper mid-bite out of the 650s which I kind of like but I can live with because the sound is so liquid. Everything is a bit effortless. Very happy right now but still mixed feelings. Will take a while it warms up to further develop my thoughts.


----------



## RCBinTN

hikaru12 said:


> Just got my Gumby in. First of all this thing is massive. Second, only after an hour or so of powering it on - I'm lackluster. You can tell you have a lot of space around the music, it's super smooth, takes the mid forwardness and upper mid-bite out of the 650s which I kind of like but I can live with because the sound is so liquid. Everything is a bit effortless. Very happy right now but still mixed feelings. Will take a while it warms up to further develop my thoughts.


Right. And you're at two hours. Give it a day or two.
Powered on all the time...it needs to reach thermal equilibrium.
You will become a happy camper.


----------



## hikaru12

RCBinTN said:


> Right. And you're at two hours. Give it a day or two.
> Powered on all the time...it needs to reach thermal equilibrium.
> You will become a happy camper.



Definitely. I wanted a baseline as to what I can expect. I can wait a few weeks as I'm still waiting for my Atticus to come in (should be shipping next week or so). I can start noticing some dynamics coming through even through some JJ tubes.


----------



## ColtMrFire

hikaru12 said:


> Just got my Gumby in. First of all this thing is massive. Second, only after an hour or so of powering it on - I'm lackluster. You can tell you have a lot of space around the music, it's super smooth, takes the mid forwardness and upper mid-bite out of the 650s which I kind of like but I can live with because the sound is so liquid. Everything is a bit effortless. Very happy right now but still mixed feelings. Will take a while it warms up to further develop my thoughts.


 
Enjoy the ride.


----------



## goldsgym

hikaru12 said:


> Just got my Gumby in. First of all this thing is massive. Second, only after an hour or so of powering it on - I'm lackluster. You can tell you have a lot of space around the music, it's super smooth, takes the mid forwardness and upper mid-bite out of the 650s which I kind of like but I can live with because the sound is so liquid. Everything is a bit effortless. Very happy right now but still mixed feelings. Will take a while it warms up to further develop my thoughts.


I am excited to hear your impressions are you continue to burn it in. Mine will be here tomorrow, so I am pretty excited to plug it in a get everything going. I even made my own XLR cables to use with my fully balanced V280 amp.


----------



## Charente

@hikaru12 ... Congratulations. It WILL take quite a bit of 'warming up' (or burn-in) from new in my experience... and I leave it on 24/7 thereafter.


----------



## artur9

hikaru12 said:


> Just got my Gumby in. First of all this thing is massive.



If you think that's massive wait till you see an Yggy.  And, wait at least 24h before listening critically.  The Gumby takes a few days to reach its peak performance (being on the whole time, of course).


----------



## KeithEmo

I always feel obligated to comment when I read descriptions about extended "burn in" times on modern solid state equipment.

Thermal equilibrium should be a matter of a few hours at most - and not days.
And, while some components, and especially tubes, may change significantly over time, that also shouldn't be true for modern solid state components.
In fact, while many solid state components "warm up", which is another way of saying "reach thermal equilibrium", not very many of them really "burn in"
(Put an actual thermometer on your DAC and I doubt you'll see the internal temperature change much after the first six or eight hours.... )

Therefore, you should always consider the possibility that part of what you're experiencing is that _YOU_ also "burn in"......
As you become more accustomed to how a new piece of equipment sounds, it comes to sound "more normal", and anything different comes to sound "different".
Some would say that "as the novelty wears off you start to notice more of the details".

However, it also contributes to a common effect that "after becoming used to your new piece of gear, you pull out your old model, hook it up, and notice a huge difference"...
What has happened is that we humans are programmed to notice differences more than similarities.
In your brain, you started out with the old one being "normal", and the new one being "different"; after a while, the new one becomes "the normal one", and the old one is "the different one".
(For better or worse this effect makes it difficult to fairly evaluate which one is actually better - and in what ways.)



RCBinTN said:


> Right. And you're at two hours. Give it a day or two.
> Powered on all the time...it needs to reach thermal equilibrium.
> You will become a happy camper.





Charente said:


> @hikaru12 ... Congratulations. It WILL take quite a bit of 'warming up' (or burn-in) from new in my experience... and I leave it on 24/7 thereafter.


----------



## AudioBear

KeithEmo said:


> I always feel obligated to comment when I read descriptions about extended "burn in" times on modern solid state equipment.
> 
> Thermal equilibrium should be a matter of a few hours at most - and not days.
> And, while some components, and especially tubes, may change significantly over time, that also shouldn't be true for modern solid state components.
> ...


 
@KeithEmo 

Thanks for laying all of this out.  I have not doubted that people are hearing what they report.  We have some very expert listeners here.   I have, however, had exactly the same impression about why as you just posted.  I am sure you will be told you are all wet, but then we both will be.  I am also of the impression that we don''t hear a whole piece of music consistently each time we play it. The brain is an amazing processor.  Much like a DAC it reconstructs a coherent sound from soundbites.  Each time you listen your brain samples different bytes (if you will).  By the time a week's burn-in has completed, you've done a pretty job on sampling most of what a piece of kit sounds like.  That helps make it sound like it's changing with time.

Now here's a question for you.  How do you explain the results for those who get a new DAC, turn it on, listen to it once, feed it music for a week and then listen to again and declare it has undergone an amazing transformation? It would seem like they have not had a full brain burn in yet nonetheless they report changes with time.


----------



## nicoch46

Caps need a burn in ,must have  some time to form oxide that is needed to work....


----------



## Ableza

nicoch46 said:


> Caps need a burn in ,must have  some time to form oxide that is needed to work....


What?  Oxide?  You've been reading too many Wiki articles...


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 13, 2018)

IME, it's not so straightfoward that the differences you hear after a prolonged duration especially.  Our memory are not that good to compare subtle differences from recall especially.  That is not all, we are not like a DAC or a circuit, we have conditions(our conditions change), and our auditory system is tied to the brain that has bias from the overal sensory and predispositions.  We have emotions, feels, etc..  What we hear at one moment can change, and out auditory conditions change.  Our brain/ears has a way of adjusting.  Unless we do a precisely controlled experiement, these opinions have too many variables that should be considered to be certain especially considering human subjectism is involved.  There's more variables.


----------



## KeithEmo (Feb 13, 2018)

The process that happens in your brain is quite different than the way electronic components burn-in.... and how it occurs, and how quickly, depends on a lot of different factors.

One classic, and somewhat disconcerting, way to demonstrate this is very simple.
Fill one container with cold water... and fill another with hot water...
Put one hand in each container at the same time for a minute or two.
Now put BOTH hands in the SAME bowl of room-temperature water.
Your brain will have fun trying to figure out how one hand can be in "warm" water, while the other is in "cool" water, but you can see both hands - in the same bowl.

For most people, this "calibration effect" only takes a minute or two.... think about the amount of time it takes for your bath water to no longer seem hot.

Photographers and other artists are very familiar with this experience as it concerns color.
Sunlight, skylight, fluorescent lamps, and incandescent lamps, are all very different colors.
Yet your brain does such an excellent and seamless job of correcting what you think you see that a white piece of paper looks "white" in all of them.
(But turn off the auto-white-balance on your camera and take a picture under each.... you'll see that the paper _REALLY_ looks yellow under sunlight, blue under the sky, and probably greenish under the fluorescent lights.)

There are limits to these effects... but those limits are a lot further apart than you probably think.
Because the act of hearing is itself very complex, the effect of "normalization" is also more complex, and can occur along many different axes.
It's also strongly influenced by your perception - and your concentration and focus.

With audio, most people notice this effect most strongly with speakers, which tend to have the most variation.
Your current speakers sound "normal".
Then you buy new ones.
For the first day or two your new speakers sound "bright".
But, by the end of the first week, they probably sound "normal".
And, now, when you pull out your old speakers, THEY sound "dull" and "laid back".
Guess what?
The speakers haven't changed.... your brain has simply reset it's frame of reference.
This effect can be really insidious if you design and build speakers...
You're busily trying to tweak your new project to sound the way you think it should.... while your brain is busily tweaking itself to consider what your project sounds like today as "normal".
(So you should make a point of having a reference, and going back and forth between your project and the reference - to avoid having YOUR calibration "drift over time".)
(To make matters worse, new speakers really DO mechanically break in over the first 100 hours or so of play... so there are some real changes mixed in with the illusory ones.)

The process is also strongly influenced by our personal biases and expectations.
(After all, when you hear a difference between your old DAC, and that expensive new one everyone is raving about, you EXPECT the new one to be better instead of worse, right?)

So, if you want a really fair comparison, buy that new DAC, then let it sit in the next room "burning in" and "reaching equilibrium" for a week or two.
At the same time, continue to listen to your old DAC.
(Or, even better, don't listen to either one for a week or two.)
_NOW_ you can compare both, with both "fully burned in" and "fully warmed up", and no calibration problems.
(Or, even better yet, go and listen to LIVE BANDS for a week.... then come back and see how each of those DACs compares to the REAL reference.)

Incidentally, if you REALLY want to see how or if a component changes when "burned in", it's really easy. Get TWO samples of the same DAC, let one "burn in" for two weeks playing music; leave the other one in the box; NOW, after that two weeks, turn them both on and compare them. (This would only really be practical if you have a buddy who lives nearby who is considering buying the same one... but it should be practical - and useful - for a reviewer to do it. It would be even cooler to try it after a half hour, when the new one is fully "warmed up", and compare that to one that's "been burning in for several weeks".)



SilverEars said:


> IME, it's not so straightfoward that the differences you hear after a prolonged duration especially.  Our memory are not that good to compare subtle differences from recall especially.  That is not all, we are not like a DAC or a circuit, we have conditions(our conditions change), and our auditory system is tied to the brain that has bias from the overal sensory and predispositions.  We have emotions, feels, etc..  What we hear at one moment can change, and out auditory conditions change.  Our brain/ears has a way of adjusting.  Unless we do a precisely controlled experiement, these opinions have too many variables that should be considered to be certain especially considering human subjectism is involved.  There's more variables.





AudioBear said:


> @KeithEmo
> 
> Thanks for laying all of this out.  I have not doubted that people are hearing what they report.  We have some very expert listeners here.   I have, however, had exactly the same impression about why as you just posted.  I am sure you will be told you are all wet, but then we both will be.  I am also of the impression that we don''t hear a whole piece of music consistently each time we play it. The brain is an amazing processor.  Much like a DAC it reconstructs a coherent sound from soundbites.  Each time you listen your brain samples different bytes (if you will).  By the time a week's burn-in has completed, you've done a pretty job on sampling most of what a piece of kit sounds like.  That helps make it sound like it's changing with time.
> 
> Now here's a question for you.  How do you explain the results for those who get a new DAC, turn it on, listen to it once, feed it music for a week and then listen to again and declare it has undergone an amazing transformation? It would seem like they have not had a full brain burn in yet nonetheless they report changes with time.


----------



## Charente

Reasonable points regarding so called 'burn-in', be it equipment or US ... or both. I do experience some feelings of SQ degradation in my hearing if I have been away for some days (having switched everything off before I left) and it seems back to 'normal' the next day (or so). Is it me or the equipment ? Is my hearing re-adjusting after an absence of not hearing what I'm used to ?


----------



## KeithEmo (Feb 13, 2018)

There are two issues with that statement....

First, it's generally not true (except in very specific cases).

Second, for many components, the exact values simply aren't that important.
For a capacitor used in a filter network, even a fraction of a percent in value might make an audible difference.
That's why we would hope that the designers chose components for those with both tight tolerances and minimal variation due to temperature.
However, for an electrolytic filter capacitor used in a power supply, the ones with exceptionally TIGHT tolerances are only specified to be within +/-20% of rated value.
(In the old days, typical power supply capacitors were specified as +80%/-20%, because having a value above what was needed simply doesn't matter in that application.)
Since the guys who designed the circuit know this, hopefully they designed the circuit to NOT be affected by differences on that scale.
However, if the value of that capacitor changes 5% over time, as it "burns-in", clearly it isn't going to make much difference either.

CERTAIN components change quite a bit in their first few hours of operation..... notably vacuum tubes.
Those changes may continue for days - and, to some degree, throughout the entire service life.
This is also true if you're turning on a vintage amplifier that hasn't been run in many years..... some of the capacitors MAY benefit from a long gradual warm-up to allow them to return to operating condition.

In contrast, most solid state amplifiers do have automatic bias adjustment circuits, which may indeed cause significant audible changes before they reach thermal equilibrium.
(That's why they may sound different after being warmed up... and why you don't adjust the bias until they're "fully warmed up" - usually specified as after thirty minutes to an hour.)
However, that really does refer to the time it takes to reach "steady state operating temperature" - which may range from minutes to a few hours - but not weeks (certainly not in consumer equipment).



nicoch46 said:


> Caps need a burn in ,must have  some time to form oxide that is needed to work....


----------



## KeithEmo

Well, now.... that should be easy enough to test.
The next time, leave the equipment on instead of turning it off, and see if the difference seems similar - or not.
(My guess is that the difference in your perception far exceeds the difference in the equipment itself; I know mine does.)



Charente said:


> Reasonable points regarding so called 'burn-in', be it equipment or US ... or both. I do experience some feelings of SQ degradation in my hearing if I have been away for some days (having switched everything off before I left) and it seems back to 'normal' the next day (or so). Is it me or the equipment ? Is my hearing re-adjusting after an absence of not hearing what I'm used to ?


----------



## Charente

KeithEmo said:


> Well, now.... that should be easy enough to test.



Indeed so !


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 13, 2018)

Charente said:


> Reasonable points regarding so called 'burn-in', be it equipment or US ... or both. I do experience some feelings of SQ degradation in my hearing if I have been away for some days (having switched everything off before I left) and it seems back to 'normal' the next day (or so). Is it me or the equipment ? Is my hearing re-adjusting after an absence of not hearing what I'm used to ?


I haven't really come up with a strict pattern for my hearing, but I've had instances I've not listened to audio equipment for a long time, the audio equipment sounds more impressive and detailed.  I've had those moments.  I've also had a situation I listened to something, walk away, and come back and realize that the volume is much louder than I recall.  I've also had times when treble seems more excessive than other times.  I've had times when I notice more details and other times not.  The most noticeable differences(or not) I hear is when I switch rapidly, otherwise I really cannot know with high confidence what I've heard prior was that much different.  I've had moments when audio sounded worse.  Given all this, I realize I'm not a machine, and there is a psychological element involved.

I'm sure we heard people repeatedly say Volume Matched when doing comparisons.  You need a fair comparison, and consider all the variables.  You have two DACs fed to an amp, one outputs higher volume than another.  Our hearing have different frequency sensitivities at different volume levels has generally been proven statistically.  Same goes for optical vs usb or various other interfaces.  Before any conclusions to be made, you'd have to take all the considerations.  If we had a judge that did a poor job with taking all the necessary considerations, wouldn't be fair outcome would it?


----------



## ColtMrFire

Very excited to be upgrading to a Torpedo III amp next week to pair with Gumby.  Should be end game.  Until I get curious about Yggy/Zana Duex S


----------



## goldsgym

The Gumby came in today and has been on for about 4 hours now. I can already tell that the highs are starting to mellow out just a tad. The combination with the V280 and the HD800 S creates a pretty beautiful sound.


----------



## hikaru12

So here's some more impressions after spending more time with Gumby:

It sounds effortless and has a pretty damn wide soundstage. I quite like it as it gives room for my music to breathe, this is it's most distinguishing feature. I can hear a little bit of more detail but not otherwise game changing (could be described as masked by the Gumby warmth which I'm quite okay with - I wasn't looking for a detail monster). 

The other distinguishing factor is the Gumby just sounds transparent. I can much more clearly hear tube differences in my Valhalla 2 as the DAC doesn't add too much of it's own coloration which the Mimby did (I never realized the Mimby was too warm until I went with the Gumby). This means it's actually changing my perspective on warm tubes. I used to like warm tubes w/ warm headphones like the 650s when the DAC was something like a Chromecast audio or non-multibit variant as the brightness of the DAC + Mixed with the warmth of the tubes made for a quite nice sound. Brighter, more forward tubes with the neutrality of the DAC does lend itself to more detail but at the expense of dryness. The Gumby is going to cost me a lot of money as I try to find the best combo now lol Some Miniwatts might actually be good or a Crack w/ Speedball might be up my alley.


----------



## RCBinTN

I have the same experience when switching between my HD800 and LCD-4 headphones.
Takes my brain a while to re-calibrate. So, I don't usually switch day-by-day. 
Too much re-calibrating is not good for an old guy like me


----------



## KeithEmo

Maybe you should consider getting a nice neutral (solid state) amp so you can hear all the nice NON-coloration of your new DAC....
(Get off the "balancing this coloration with that coloration" treadmill and just stick with transparent.)





hikaru12 said:


> So here's some more impressions after spending more time with Gumby:
> 
> It sounds effortless and has a pretty damn wide soundstage. I quite like it as it gives room for my music to breathe, this is it's most distinguishing feature. I can hear a little bit of more detail but not otherwise game changing (could be described as masked by the Gumby warmth which I'm quite okay with - I wasn't looking for a detail monster).
> 
> The other distinguishing factor is the Gumby just sounds transparent. I can much more clearly hear tube differences in my Valhalla 2 as the DAC doesn't add too much of it's own coloration which the Mimby did (I never realized the Mimby was too warm until I went with the Gumby). This means it's actually changing my perspective on warm tubes. I used to like warm tubes w/ warm headphones like the 650s when the DAC was something like a Chromecast audio or non-multibit variant as the brightness of the DAC + Mixed with the warmth of the tubes made for a quite nice sound. Brighter, more forward tubes with the neutrality of the DAC does lend itself to more detail but at the expense of dryness. The Gumby is going to cost me a lot of money as I try to find the best combo now lol Some Miniwatts might actually be good or a Crack w/ Speedball might be up my alley.


----------



## hikaru12

KeithEmo said:


> Maybe you should consider getting a nice neutral (solid state) amp so you can hear all the nice NON-coloration of your new DAC....
> (Get off the "balancing this coloration with that coloration" treadmill and just stick with transparent.)



Yeah I'm thinking that myself that way I can better figure out how I want to tweak the sound. You have any good recommendations for a neutral balanced SS amp for around $500? I was thinking the Joteinheim but I've heard it's bright and not neutral.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Feb 14, 2018)

Jotunheim is transparent, not necessarily "bright".  I owned it.

It will give you a clear picture of the DAC.  Your headphones will contribute more to any perceived brightness.

For what its worth, some people rave about the Jot/Gumby combo.

I had Jot/Mimby and it was _extremely_ good.  I even preferred it to Ragnarok when I demoed it.  Gumby would obviously be a large improvement.

Jot could be considered an end game amp for some people, it's exceptional and definitely under-priced (like most Schiit gear).


----------



## hikaru12

ColtMrFire said:


> Jotunheim is transparent, not necessarily "bright".  I owned it.
> 
> It will give you a clear picture of the DAC.  Your headphones will contribute more to any perceived brightness.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your impressions. I'll definitely give it a try. I've heard it's a good pairing with the 650s, just can't dig as deep in the micro-details as tubes but that doesn't matter as much to me as getting the perfect hint of coloration w/ the right amount of detail.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Only place Jot falls short of other TOTL amps is the soundstage is relatively flat.  I didn't really notice or care much though, as everything else is exceptional.  But SS amps are always going to be compromised in soundstage vs. tubes.


----------



## goldsgym

hikaru12 said:


> So here's some more impressions after spending more time with Gumby:
> 
> It sounds effortless and has a pretty damn wide soundstage. I quite like it as it gives room for my music to breathe, this is it's most distinguishing feature. I can hear a little bit of more detail but not otherwise game changing (could be described as masked by the Gumby warmth which I'm quite okay with - I wasn't looking for a detail monster).
> 
> The other distinguishing factor is the Gumby just sounds transparent. I can much more clearly hear tube differences in my Valhalla 2 as the DAC doesn't add too much of it's own coloration which the Mimby did (I never realized the Mimby was too warm until I went with the Gumby). This means it's actually changing my perspective on warm tubes. I used to like warm tubes w/ warm headphones like the 650s when the DAC was something like a Chromecast audio or non-multibit variant as the brightness of the DAC + Mixed with the warmth of the tubes made for a quite nice sound. Brighter, more forward tubes with the neutrality of the DAC does lend itself to more detail but at the expense of dryness. The Gumby is going to cost me a lot of money as I try to find the best combo now lol Some Miniwatts might actually be good or a Crack w/ Speedball might be up my alley.


Ok, more than 24 hours in with the Gumby + V280 combo and I am now in audio heaven. I finally see why everyone raves about the Gumby. The music is just plain amazing! I've been listening to Disturbed - Live at the RedRocks using Tidal, so it's their Masters edition. Absolutely incredible.


----------



## hikaru12 (Feb 15, 2018)

goldsgym said:


> Ok, more than 24 hours in with the Gumby + V280 combo and I am now in audio heaven. I finally see why everyone raves about the Gumby. The music is just plain amazing! I've been listening to Disturbed - Live at the RedRocks using Tidal, so it's their Masters edition. Absolutely incredible.



Unfortunately I don't share your sentiments. My impressions are mixed, I don't yet feel like I got my money's worth. It's good but not amazing or incredible like everyone is describing. I think I really need to up my amplification to benefit the most from it. My main headphone right now is the HD650 so tubes usually win out on that run. I'm not willing to spend $2k on a tube amp and another $2k on a SS so it's kind of picking where my focus will be. SS will deliver the slam but I want to ensure the warmness and micro-detail is preserved. How is your V280 in terms of micro-detail? I don't care much for soundstage. I'm one of those weird cats that got an HD800 and couldn't really hear a soundstage difference (probably because I don't listen to Classical or other genres that require it).


----------



## Globox

hikaru12 said:


> I'm not willing to spend $2k on a tube amp and another $2k on a SS so it's kind of picking where my focus will be. SS will deliver the slam but I want to ensure the warmness and micro-detail is preserved.


How about taking both in one ?
Schiit MJ2 is your friend !


----------



## hikaru12

Globox said:


> How about taking both in one ?
> Schiit MJ2 is your friend !



Haha, yeah I've thought about it. One of my concerns for it has been the recent up in RMA from users over on the Impressions thread but Schiit's got a good warranty on their top amps. Might give it a go. One of their founders has the Gumby + Mjonir stack and he really likes it.


----------



## Globox

I have both also... My Gumby want in RMA but only for upgrades. My MJ2 want to RMA because of an electric issue... Which was in my house and not in the MJ2... So, well, never had any issue with any of those 2.
The only thing I would change if I could is selling gumby to go to Yggy.


----------



## hikaru12

Globox said:


> I have both also... My Gumby want in RMA but only for upgrades. My MJ2 want to RMA because of an electric issue... Which was in my house and not in the MJ2... So, well, never had any issue with any of those 2.
> The only thing I would change if I could is selling gumby to go to Yggy.



Good to know, definitely going to pick it up on payday or when the backorder clears


----------



## KeithEmo

I've got to throw the Emotiva A-100 into the ring here.

It's really a power amp that can run speakers, but its headphone outputs are derived from the main outputs (like on vintage equipment), and there is an option to jumper the dropping resistors and connect your headphones directly to the output. It's very clean, and has plenty of power to run high impedance phones, and planars that require a lot of power. The only drawback is that I wouldn't recommend it for use with super-sensitive phones because it's not as quiet as some lower-powered headphone-only amps. You do get a money-back guarantee, so you can return it if you don't like it, and it's only $229. (Note that it doesn't have balanced headphone outputs... but, of course, you can run any headphone, balanced or not,  on an unbalanced output.)



hikaru12 said:


> Yeah I'm thinking that myself that way I can better figure out how I want to tweak the sound. You have any good recommendations for a neutral balanced SS amp for around $500? I was thinking the Joteinheim but I've heard it's bright and not neutral.


----------



## ColtMrFire

hikaru12 said:


> Unfortunately I don't share your sentiments. My impressions are mixed, I don't yet feel like I got my money's worth. It's good but not amazing or incredible like everyone is describing. I think I really need to up my amplification to benefit the most from it. My main headphone right now is the HD650 so tubes usually win out on that run. I'm not willing to spend $2k on a tube amp and another $2k on a SS so it's kind of picking where my focus will be. SS will deliver the slam but I want to ensure the warmness and micro-detail is preserved. How is your V280 in terms of micro-detail? I don't care much for soundstage. I'm one of those weird cats that got an HD800 and couldn't really hear a soundstage difference (probably because I don't listen to Classical or other genres that require it).



I would wait at least a week before doing any critical listening, as it took that long (for me) before Gumby became special. 

You have a TOTL DAC feeding a mid-fi amp, so of course it's being held back.  But you don't have to spend thousands to take advantage of Gumby.  Jotunheim has all the slam, speed, clarity and micro-detail most people could ever need.  One of the reasons I sold my Val2 is because it has a hazy veil and is lacking in macrodynamics (slam).  Gumby's clarity and dynamics need something better.

I would seriously be considering Jotunheim if I were you, it's cheap and performs way better than it's price suggests.  Or you can save a bit more money and get a TOTL tube amp like Torpedo III, like I just did.  You can generally find them for under $1K on the classifieds when they occasionally come up for sale.  Black Widow is also a TOTL SS amp that can be gotten for under a $1K used.  But Jotunheim is close IMO, so it's up to you.


----------



## goldsgym

hikaru12 said:


> Unfortunately I don't share your sentiments. My impressions are mixed, I don't yet feel like I got my money's worth. It's good but not amazing or incredible like everyone is describing. I think I really need to up my amplification to benefit the most from it. My main headphone right now is the HD650 so tubes usually win out on that run. I'm not willing to spend $2k on a tube amp and another $2k on a SS so it's kind of picking where my focus will be. SS will deliver the slam but I want to ensure the warmness and micro-detail is preserved. How is your V280 in terms of micro-detail? I don't care much for soundstage. I'm one of those weird cats that got an HD800 and couldn't really hear a soundstage difference (probably because I don't listen to Classical or other genres that require it).


It's hard to say if the micro-detail is due to the V280, the HD 800 S, or the Gumby. Most likely, it's a combo of the 3. My setup is also fully balanced from the DAC to the amp, and from the amp to the headphones, so that alone makes a HUGE difference. Are your HD 650s balanced? If not, I would suggest getting (or better yet, making to save yourself a lot of money) a balanced cable. Some people will argue that balanced doesn't make much of a difference, but I disagree. I can hear a significant difference between the two.


----------



## hikaru12

goldsgym said:


> It's hard to say if the micro-detail is due to the V280, the HD 800 S, or the Gumby. Most likely, it's a combo of the 3. My setup is also fully balanced from the DAC to the amp, and from the amp to the headphones, so that alone makes a HUGE difference. Are your HD 650s balanced? If not, I would suggest getting (or better yet, making to save yourself a lot of money) a balanced cable. Some people will argue that balanced doesn't make much of a difference, but I disagree. I can hear a significant difference between the two.



I'm planning on it, just don't want to spend half or more the cost of the headphones themselves to get a balanced cable. Probably will end up making it myself. 4 pin connectors are a lot easier to work with. Thanks for your input!


----------



## ColtMrFire

goldsgym said:


> It's hard to say if the micro-detail is due to the V280, the HD 800 S, or the Gumby. Most likely, it's a combo of the 3. My setup is also fully balanced from the DAC to the amp, and from the amp to the headphones, so that alone makes a HUGE difference. Are your HD 650s balanced? If not, I would suggest getting (or better yet, making to save yourself a lot of money) a balanced cable. Some people will argue that balanced doesn't make much of a difference, but I disagree. I can hear a significant difference between the two.



It depends on the design of the amp.  There are SE amps that sound better than balanced amps in the same price range.  Some amps with both SE/BAL are designed to sound better through balanced, that does not mean balanced is inherently better than SE full stop.  It has to be taken in context.

You are better off buying the best amp, SE or BAL, rather than chasing only balanced amps because of some belief that it is better, as you may miss out on your perfect amp that only provides SE.  There are TOTL amps that only offer SE that smoke balanced amps in a lower category, and even in the same category, again it depends on how well the amp is designed.  I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from enjoying their balanced gear, but we need to be honest about what's actually going on.  BAL can make a huge difference in the amp if that's what the designer intended for his specific amp.  

For instance in Ragnarok, the difference between SE and BAL is huge because it's a circlotron amp, designed to be used balanced.  The SE output is essentially only there for convenience.  In Jotunheim, balanced was only marginally better than SE.  But there are SE only amps that sound better than Jot.  

@hikaru12 should get the best amp, not worry about chasing balanced gear.  My incoming Torp III is a TOTL tube amp that is only SE.  I am not worried about balanced because it isn't a factor in the design of the amp.


----------



## hikaru12

ColtMrFire said:


> It depends on the design of the amp.  There are SE amps that sound better than balanced amps in the same price range.  Some amps with both SE/BAL are designed to sound better through balanced, that does not mean balanced is inherently better than SE full stop.  It has to be taken in context.
> 
> You are better off buying the best amp, SE or BAL, rather than chasing only balanced amps because of some belief that it is better, as you may miss out on your perfect amp that only provides SE.  There are TOTL amps that only offer SE that smoke balanced amps in a lower category, and even in the same category, again it depends on how well the amp is designed.  I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from enjoying their balanced gear, but we need to be honest about what's actually going on.  BAL can make a huge difference in the amp if that's what the designer intended for his specific amp.
> 
> ...



I was thinking of getting a AmpsandSound Kenzie and calling it a day but was ideally looking at the $1k price range to make the most of my new Gumby. Ideally, I'm looking for the following:
Micro-detail, forward mids, and good bass/slam. I don't care about air or treble or soundstage.


----------



## ColtMrFire

hikaru12 said:


> I was thinking of getting a AmpsandSound Kenzie and calling it a day but was ideally looking at the $1k price range to make the most of my new Gumby. Ideally, I'm looking for the following:
> Micro-detail, forward mids, and good bass/slam. I don't care about air or treble or soundstage.



You just described Jotunheim.  But there may be amps better at it.  Never heard the kenzie.


----------



## hikaru12

ColtMrFire said:


> You just described Jotunheim.  But there may be amps better at it.  Never heard the kenzie.



I'm convinced I'm going to get the Mjolnir. I just hooked up my Valhalla 2 with some Electro Harmonix which are pretty crappy but warm tubes. Using the Vally as a preamp for my two channel stereo to some Klipch Reference Premiere speakers is really letting the smoothness of the Gumby shine through. This is giving me a hint of what a well implemented hybrid can do. I'm very excited to be getting my Atticus next week too  Hope you enjoy your Torpedo. I've read really good things about it. Not digging the looks though lol


----------



## SirIsaac

Just ordered the GUNGNIR Multibit, still waiting on my MJOLNIR 2 to come in but everything I've read say that it's crazy combo, figured it made sense. On average do the gungnir dac's really  take weeks to warm up? Seen some posts say a few days, others say a few weeks. What should I expect?


----------



## Mr Rick

SirIsaac said:


> Just ordered the GUNGNIR Multibit, still waiting on my MJOLNIR 2 to come in but everything I've read say that it's crazy combo, figured it made sense. On average do the gungnir dac's really  take weeks to warm up? Seen some posts say a few days, others say a few weeks. What should I expect?



I got mine about a year ago. I turned it on and started listening. I never turned it off.


----------



## SirIsaac

Mr Rick said:


> I got mine about a year ago. I turned it on and started listening. I never turned it off.


Ya I guess most people just leave them on.


----------



## artur9

SirIsaac said:


> Just ordered the GUNGNIR Multibit, still waiting on my MJOLNIR 2 to come in but everything I've read say that it's crazy combo, figured it made sense. On average do the gungnir dac's really  take weeks to warm up? Seen some posts say a few days, others say a few weeks. What should I expect?



The sound changes a bit over 3-4 days IME.  But it sounds good from the get-go.


----------



## hikaru12

I found it sounds best after the first few hours then gets a little more brighter. I kind of wish it would stay in that state but the dynamics and sense of space make up for it.


----------



## SirIsaac

I'm upgrading from a modi 2U. Has anyone else followed this upgrade path? Was it a noticeable improvement?


----------



## eee1111

You should have a noticeable improvement


----------



## jcn3

SirIsaac said:


> I'm upgrading from a modi 2U. Has anyone else followed this upgrade path? Was it a noticeable improvement?



i assume you're talking about the gungnir multibit.  if so, the improvement will be significant.


----------



## SirIsaac

jcn3 said:


> i assume you're talking about the gungnir multibit.  if so, the improvement will be significant.



Ya, I went straight for the gumby. 
Now as luck would have it all schiits upgradeable dacs come with the new usb 5 so I don't have to worry about that.

Has that been well received? Better, worse, no change? Just curious.


----------



## jcn3

SirIsaac said:


> Ya, I went straight for the gumby.
> Now as luck would have it all schiits upgradeable dacs come with the new usb 5 so I don't have to worry about that.
> 
> Has that been well received? Better, worse, no change? Just curious.



gen 5 usb has been extremely well received (evidence the schiit eitr which is a gen 5 usb board in a case and the positive comments in the yggy).  personally, i've ditched all my decrapifiers after doing the upgrade.


----------



## SirIsaac

jcn3 said:


> gen 5 usb has been extremely well received (evidence the schiit eitr which is a gen 5 usb board in a case and the positive comments in the yggy).  personally, i've ditched all my decrapifiers after doing the upgrade.



Excellent, I figured as much. Most schiit upgrades that I've read about are pretty well received.


----------



## hikaru12

Mimby to Gumby is not really significant I've noticed especially if you use an EITR with it. The two best improvements I've gotten from upgrading from a Mimby is soundstage and clarity. The Mimby is actually quite warm, more than I realized.


----------



## SirIsaac

hikaru12 said:


> Mimby to Gumby is not really significant I've noticed especially if you use an EITR with it. The two best improvements I've gotten from upgrading from a Mimby is soundstage and clarity. The Mimby is actually quite warm, more than I realized.



What is a EITR?
Is that one of these "decrapifying" devices?


----------



## hikaru12

SirIsaac said:


> What is a EITR?
> Is that one of these "decrapifying" devices?



http://www.schiit.com/products/eitr


----------



## SirIsaac

SirIsaac said:


> What is a EITR?
> Is that one of these "decrapifying" devices?



or are you referring to the schiit product?
http://www.schiit.com/products/eitr

It would seem pointless for a device that already has a usb connection


----------



## SirIsaac

SirIsaac said:


> or are you referring to the schiit product?
> http://www.schiit.com/products/eitr
> 
> It would seem pointless for a device that already has a usb connection


OH, for isolation, I get it now LOL.
Interesting. I didn't know these were a thing.


----------



## Vertinari (Mar 10, 2018)

Deleted.


----------



## SirIsaac

Has anyone done an A/B using the balanced out vs the SE, Just wondering what kinda gains were found, if any.


----------



## Charente

IME depends on the AMP and headphones. Schiit GMB>MJ2 balanced with HD-650 (balanced) is significantly better than SE. Veil ? ... none !


----------



## Robstarplus

Hey guys, I'm looking at the Schiit Modi Multibit and also considering going all in on the Gungnir Multibit, instead of the Modi. However I'm really confused, a lot of people are saying that one is a significant upgrade over the other. Is it for the ports? I'm simply going to be using one or the other for music and gaming on the PC.


----------



## Vu Chau

Has anyone paired a Gungnir with their LCD-X? I'm looking for a new DAC to replace my Mojo in the chain, and I might go for either the DS or the Multibit version. The amp I'm using is the Auralic Taurus MKII. Both headphone and amp are pretty transparent/neutral, so if the Gungnir adds a bit warmth that's alright.


----------



## shultzee

Had a LCD X and Gungnir back in the day and thought it was a great pairing.


----------



## theveterans

Vu Chau said:


> Has anyone paired a Gungnir with their LCD-X? I'm looking for a new DAC to replace my Mojo in the chain, and I might go for either the DS or the Multibit version. The amp I'm using is the Auralic Taurus MKII. Both headphone and amp are pretty transparent/neutral, so if the Gungnir adds a bit warmth that's alright.



With the advent of Yggdrasil A2, the price for the Gungnir won’t be a worthwhile upgrade from Mojo. I recommend to go to the top with Yggdrasil A2 or Chord Qutest if spending more than 1000 USD on a DAC


----------



## luckybaer

theveterans said:


> With the advent of Yggdrasil A2, the price for the Gungnir won’t be a worthwhile upgrade from Mojo. I recommend to go to the top with Yggdrasil A2 or Chord Qutest if spending more than 1000 USD on a DAC


What if one doesn't have the disposable income to do as you suggest?


----------



## shultzee

luckybaer said:


> What if one doesn't have the disposable income to do as you suggest?




Get the Gumby


----------



## acguitar84

shultzee said:


> Get the Gumby


I see you had the Yggdrasil (in the past) as well, do you miss it? In comparison to the Gumby?


----------



## Walderstorn (Mar 19, 2018)

luckybaer said:


> What if one doesn't have the disposable income to do as you suggest?



First ignore that advice since:

1) not everyone prefers ygg (I don't, at least in my system)
2) not always yggi has the better synergy
3) you buy, within your budget and your reason, the best you can afford and that doesn't mean more expensive = better, for you, or anyone else for that matter.

Second, if possible try them both, with your headphones before buying (having the amp would be "perfect" but that's difficult).


----------



## luckybaer

Walderstorn said:


> First ignore that advice since:
> 
> 1) not everyone prefers ygg (I don't, at least in my system)
> 2) not always yggi has the better synergy
> ...


I was kind of giving him a hard time because on another occasion, his advice was to just go and buy the TOTL equipment.  That isn’t always possible for others.


----------



## SirIsaac

luckybaer said:


> I was kind of giving him a hard time because on another occasion, his advice was to just go and buy the TOTL equipment.  That isn’t always possible for others.



I personally haven't done a A/B comparison and can't comment on the new analog 2 board however, littered though out the internet people have done so. The general consensus that I found was that there is only a slight improvement moving from gumby to yggy and at double the price that wasn't worth it to me and that's why I went with the gumby. I know that's all very subjective but, isn't everything in audio. LOL  

I actually just bought my gumby not long ago, it's still in the mail.


----------



## hikaru12

I think people should specify which headphones they use to listen to through their Gumby because it would help justify the purchase to someone. For me, while I like the Gumby and I think it's main point of power is its large soundstage I can't necessarily hear a ton of details but that's also because I prefer a warm signature. Someone who owns a Utopia might say the Gumby is really good in terms of detail retrieval. YMMV really applies to this type of purchase.


----------



## artur9

hikaru12 said:


> I think people should specify which headphones they use to listen to through their Gumby


I use my Gumby with speakers so that's a possibility, too.


----------



## luckybaer

hikaru12 said:


> I think people should specify which headphones they use to listen to through their Gumby because it would help justify the purchase to someone. For me, while I like the Gumby and I think it's main point of power is its large soundstage I can't necessarily hear a ton of details but that's also because I prefer a warm signature. Someone who owns a Utopia might say the Gumby is really good in terms of detail retrieval. YMMV really applies to this type of purchase.


HD650
DT880
D2000
K601
TX-X00 [ebony]
SR80-e
Elex [on the way]
HE4XX [on the way]

My favorites in my possession are the DT880, followed by the HD650, with the K601 next.  The D2000 and TX-X00 are brought out when I want a real change of pace.  The SR80-e aren't used in a serious manner.


----------



## me2621a

Hey guys,
Quick question for everyone. I have a Gumby with USB  Gen 5. I have two choices for a source component. Chromecast Audio (Optical SPDIF (up to 96k)) and a dedicated Intel Nuc with windows WASAPI drives for the Gen 5 USB. If you guys were in my position which one would you use. I have always heard USB is never what you want to use, but based on my reading the USB Gen 5 implementation is supposed to be on par with the other inputs on the Gumby. I do have some source files up to 192k, but they are the minority. I ask because I hear a slight difference, neither good nor, bad, just slight and I wanted to know what others think. I also tend to believe that Optical SPDIF is Optical SPDIF so I would imagine the Chromcast Audio is probably fine, but I have read other places that people are not to happy with them for HiFi listening. The wonders of the hobby.


----------



## earChasm

I feel like a child the day b4 Xmas...

I tried, I really tried to like the Chord 2Qute with all tweaks I made but I can’t. I hate that little basterd but I am gratefull it might have pointed me in the right direction :.) I love my Bifrost 4490 G5, even if it meassures bad against the Chord. At least it can make me enjoy my music for hours without fatique. So, hopefully I will love the Gumby with balanced cables even more.


----------



## earChasm

me2621a said:


> Hey guys,
> Quick question for everyone. I have a Gumby with USB  Gen 5. I have two choices for a source component. Chromecast Audio (Optical SPDIF (up to 96k)) and a dedicated Intel Nuc with windows WASAPI drives for the Gen 5 USB. If you guys were in my position which one would you use. I have always heard USB is never what you want to use, but based on my reading the USB Gen 5 implementation is supposed to be on par with the other inputs on the Gumby. I do have some source files up to 192k, but they are the minority. I ask because I hear a slight difference, neither good nor, bad, just slight and I wanted to know what others think. I also tend to believe that Optical SPDIF is Optical SPDIF so I would imagine the Chromcast Audio is probably fine, but I have read other places that people are not to happy with them for HiFi listening. The wonders of the hobby.


I can only say that with the Bifrost 4490 G5 I prefer USB, but only slightly. Second is coax and last optical. But none are bad, the difference I hear could also be pure placebo :.)


----------



## rkw

me2621a said:


> Hey guys,
> Quick question for everyone. I have a Gumby with USB  Gen 5. I have two choices for a source component. Chromecast Audio (Optical SPDIF (up to 96k)) and a dedicated Intel Nuc with windows WASAPI drives for the Gen 5 USB. If you guys were in my position which one would you use. I have always heard USB is never what you want to use, but based on my reading the USB Gen 5 implementation is supposed to be on par with the other inputs on the Gumby. I do have some source files up to 192k, but they are the minority. I ask because I hear a slight difference, neither good nor, bad, just slight and I wanted to know what others think. I also tend to believe that Optical SPDIF is Optical SPDIF so I would imagine the Chromcast Audio is probably fine, but I have read other places that people are not to happy with them for HiFi listening. The wonders of the hobby.


Why not connect and use both? I do. If you have streaming services (Tidal, Spotify, Google), it is incredibly convenient to play them from your phone or tablet through Chromecast Audio. The biggest drawback of Chromecast Audio is that it doesn't support gapless playback.


----------



## tcellguy

I'm curious what my next upgrade should be. I have a Jotunheim with the balanced DAC, which sounds good to me, but is the entry level DS on par with the Modi if I understand. I have HD6xx, Aeon Flow C, and Emu-Teaks [on the way]. 

I use mainly AAC 256 files. Would a Gumby be a significant improvement? I'd be running balanced.

Is the Gumby as bright as the Jot balanced DAC? I like things more toward the the bright/detailed side. 

I've got the iDSD micro BL for a warmer DAC option too. 

Thanks


----------



## KeithEmo

I've got to chime in here and note that you're using files that have been stored using _LOSSY_ compression.
Therefore, while a better DAC might give you a slight overall improvement, your files are quite probably the limiting factor.



tcellguy said:


> I'm curious what my next upgrade should be. I have a Jotunheim with the balanced DAC, which sounds good to me, but is the entry level DS on par with the Modi if I understand. I have HD6xx, Aeon Flow C, and Emu-Teaks [on the way].
> 
> I use mainly AAC 256 files. Would a Gumby be a significant improvement? I'd be running balanced.
> 
> ...


----------



## tcellguy

KeithEmo said:


> I've got to chime in here and note that you're using files that have been stored using _LOSSY_ compression.
> Therefore, while a better DAC might give you a slight overall improvement, your files are quite probably the limiting factor.



OK thanks. I can't seem to tell the difference between FLAC and AAC 256 lossy with my current system on A/B testing websites or with comparing files of the same song but different bit rates. I only get the correct answer ~ 60% of the time or so.  

I have been able to note improvements going from the MacBook Pro DAC to DFR/iDSD micro BL/Jot balanced DACs. 

I've seen other people state they noted an improvement even with lossy music files with the Gumby. 

Maybe though moving to a DAC of this quality requires lossless files to appreciate differences?


----------



## KeithEmo

Let's just say that a higher-quality DAC and better headphones will make the differences between different types of files more noticeable than with lower quality ones..
Beyond that, it does depend on what sorts of music you listen to, and how sensitive you happen to be to particular strengths and limitations.



tcellguy said:


> OK thanks. I can't seem to tell the difference between FLAC and AAC 256 lossy with my current system on A/B testing websites or with comparing files of the same song but different bit rates. I only get the correct answer ~ 60% of the time or so.
> 
> I have been able to note improvements going from the MacBook Pro DAC to DFR/iDSD micro BL/Jot balanced DACs.
> 
> ...


----------



## rkw

tcellguy said:


> I've seen other people state they noted an improvement even with lossy music files with the Gumby.
> 
> Maybe though moving to a DAC of this quality requires lossless files to appreciate differences?


I started with Jot+internal DAC, and upgrading the DAC did make a noticeable difference even with a lossy source (Spotify in my case, although I also have lossless sources as well). That said, a Gumby is big and expensive, and if you listen to AAC then you won't be taking full advantage of its performance. You might consider one of the smaller, cheaper options — Bimby, Mimby, or the new Jot MultiBit DAC card.


----------



## tcellguy

rkw said:


> I started with Jot+internal DAC, and upgrading the DAC did make a noticeable difference even with a lossy source (Spotify in my case, although I also have lossless sources as well). That said, a Gumby is big and expensive, and if you listen to AAC then you won't be taking full advantage of its performance. You might consider one of the smaller, cheaper options — Bimby, Mimby, or the new Jot MultiBit DAC card.



And here I was hoping to be convinced to buy the Gumby 

That’s really cool the Jotunheim has a Multibit option. That was just announced yesterday?  It looks like it isn’t balanced though. Not sure how much balanced makes a difference. 

Maybe it makes sense for me to get the Gumby and then start updating my files to lossless. 

Can the Jot sit on top of the Gumby OK? I haven’t seen that configuration in any photos. 

Thanks again


----------



## me2621a

Actually I am pretty sure it is balanced, based on how Schiit does third Dac modules for the Jotunheim.


----------



## me2621a

Never mind I am wrong.


----------



## allhifi

nigeljames said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> I don't know how any one could expect the Gungnir to outgun the Nad given the difference in price and the very good reviews the Nad has been getting but the Gungnir should be a sure thing with your Mjolnir with regards synergy.
> Have you had any Schiit before?



You say: " I don't know how any one could expect the Gungnir to outgun the Nad". (?). Lol. 
The Modi-2 Uber likely sounds better. 
I suspect the 'Gungnir' is in another league to the NAD.

Yes. No. Maybe ? 

pj


----------



## rkw (Mar 24, 2018)

allhifi said:


> You say: " I don't know how any one could expect the Gungnir to outgun the Nad". (?). Lol.
> The Modi-2 Uber likely sounds better.
> I suspect the 'Gungnir' is in another league to the NAD.
> 
> ...


Do you realize that you're commenting on a post from almost 6 years ago?
Did Modi-2 Uber even exist back then? Edit: the answer is no. Modi-2 Uber didn't come until years later


----------



## Dr.J

Greetings everyone! I'm in need of sage advice, given I'm an old analogue guy. I have an old set of speakers, Dahlquist DQ10's and have just upgraded to a Bryston 4b3 amp and am using an Ayre K5mpxe preamp. Given these modern electronics, I need to upgrade my sources. While my Schiit mani is alright, it's the weak link in the chain and the fact is, while I enjoy records, I'd prefer convenience, now and variety. So, I'm looking at dacs as an alternative, rather than upgrading my phono pre.

The Schiit gumby has so many positive reviews that I'm leaning in its favour. The Yaggy, from what I understand, gives you more resolution, but not necessarily as much prat. My system, as it is, is anything but warm - these new modern amps are a thing to behold, have no sonic character of their own and reflect faithfully the sound signature of the source and therefore, I'm looking for joyful musicality. Am I right in believing the Gumby is the favoured choice, in this regard?

More importantly, I understand the Yaggy has had a recent, but quiet design change; will this also apply to the Gumby, or, has it already? I don't want to buy in now, if this is the best choice, only to discover there's a $500 upgrade in a few months. 

Any and all advice appreciated!

Thanks, 

John


----------



## remix

Dr.J said:


> Greetings everyone! I'm in need of sage advice, given I'm an old analogue guy. I have an old set of speakers, Dahlquist DQ10's and have just upgraded to a Bryston 4b3 amp and am using an Ayre K5mpxe preamp. Given these modern electronics, I need to upgrade my sources. While my Schiit mani is alright, it's the weak link in the chain and the fact is, while I enjoy records, I'd prefer convenience, now and variety. So, I'm looking at dacs as an alternative, rather than upgrading my phono pre.
> 
> The Schiit gumby has so many positive reviews that I'm leaning in its favour. The Yaggy, from what I understand, gives you more resolution, but not necessarily as much prat. My system, as it is, is anything but warm - these new modern amps are a thing to behold, have no sonic character of their own and reflect faithfully the sound signature of the source and therefore, I'm looking for joyful musicality. Am I right in believing the Gumby is the favoured choice, in this regard?
> 
> ...



Nothing has been announced for the Gumby but it seems like a fair assumption that it will receive equivalent changes at some point. By chance I bought a Gumby just days before the Yggy upgrade was announced. It's great that these Schiit DACs can be upgraded but I wasn't thrilled with the idea that a $500 upgrade (plus another ~$100 in shipping) could potentially be coming so soon after just spending $1250. Of course the upgrade isn't required but I knew I would want it so I had to factor that into the overall investment. This pushed me to return the Gumby and spring the extra money for the Yggy.

Unfortunately I didn't have the Gumby and Yggy at the same time, nor did I have the Gumby long enough to form solid comparisons from memory. I can't say that one obviously stood out as more musical than the other but I'll add that the level of detail with the Yggy is striking to me in a way that I don't recall with the Gumby. Because of that I'm pleased with my decision but I very much enjoyed the Gumby too and would have been perfectly happy with it if I lived under a rock and never heard the Analog 2.0 news.


----------



## RCBinTN (Mar 28, 2018)

remix said:


> Nothing has been announced for the Gumby but it seems like a fair assumption that it will receive equivalent changes at some point.


I agree...I hope Schiit decides to upgrade GMB with the Yggy (or similar) analog output stage (that now includes dither!).
To me, the GMB is a very musical and enjoyable DAC. Not as resolving as the Yggy, but it's 1/2 the price!
It is also fully hardware balanced (like Yggy) - read Mike's last post for an explanation of that.
The GMB and Yggy are the only Schiit DACs that are hardware balanced.
And, the addition of the Gen 5 USB was huge, IME. I was using an optical connection (Mac - GMB) but the Gen 5 USB beats optical in SQ.

ps. I bet that Bryston amp will rock the planet @Dr.J. If you're strictly 2-channel here, the Yggy may make more sense...I've heard comments that Yggy works better in a 2-channel system than does the GMB.


----------



## Dr.J

Thank you, both! Auditioning both units would be nice, but the opportunity is complicated by the border. And, with the current US/Canada exchange rate, the Yggy, for me, becomes quite expensive. Nothing seems easy, these days, but I appreciate your responses! 

Thank you again!


----------



## US Blues

Dr.J said:


> Greetings everyone! I'm in need of sage advice, given I'm an old analogue guy. I have an old set of speakers, Dahlquist DQ10's and have just upgraded to a Bryston 4b3 amp and am using an Ayre K5mpxe preamp. Given these modern electronics, I need to upgrade my sources. While my Schiit mani is alright, it's the weak link in the chain and the fact is, while I enjoy records, I'd prefer convenience, now and variety. So, I'm looking at dacs as an alternative, rather than upgrading my phono pre.
> 
> The Schiit gumby has so many positive reviews that I'm leaning in its favour. The Yaggy, from what I understand, gives you more resolution, but not necessarily as much prat. My system, as it is, is anything but warm - these new modern amps are a thing to behold, have no sonic character of their own and reflect faithfully the sound signature of the source and therefore, I'm looking for joyful musicality. Am I right in believing the Gumby is the favoured choice, in this regard?
> 
> ...



One consideration I would offer is that the Yggy is on par with the rest of your electronics. Both the Ayre and Bryston pieces you have are basically end game, unless you want to throw serious money at your system. The Yggy 2 is end game for a DAC, unless you want to crank into 5 digit units. You've invested wisely in your electronics, one more step and then you can kick back and enjoy your tunes.


----------



## artur9

Love my Gumby but, with the electronics you have, and the recent improvement to the Yggy, it would be hard to say no to it.


----------



## Dr.J (Mar 29, 2018)

My greatest worry about the Yggy stems from comments I've read about it lacking musicality, as compared to the Gumby. My system is so hyper transparent that it's completely source dependent, is how I would describe it and while resolution is a wonderful thing, there's so much more to it. I'm not saying the Yggy is lacking, because I don't know that it is, but the comments I've read make me less sure about purchasing it. I'd like the outcome of my efforts to result in enjoyable musicality. If anyone can clarify on the "musicality" issue, I'd certainly appreciate it.


----------



## RCBinTN

The best I've heard the Yggy (A1) sound was when paired with the WA5 amp. That's somewhat a warm amp.
Also heard it paired with the Rag and the sound was a bit clinical. Less warmth than with the WA5.
Both those pairings were heard with un-modded HD800 headphones.


----------



## US Blues

Dr.J said:


> My greatest worry about the Yggy stems from comments I've read about it lacking musicality, as compared to the Gumby. My system is so hyper transparent that it's completely source dependent, is how I would describe it and while resolution is a wonderful thing, there's so much more to it. I'm not saying the Yggy is lacking, because I don't that it is, but the comments I've read make me less sure about purchasing it. If anyone can clarify on the "musicality" issue, I'd certainly appreciate it.



I have not compared Yggy to Gumby, but I bought one of the first Yggy's built, and got the upgrade ASAP. "Musical" is an interesting term in regards to a DAC, is the recording musical or is that a sonic character of the DAC adding something to the music that is not on the recording? I find Yggy 2 to be a musical feast, and I find myself fully engaged in my listening, whether it's a deep and focused session, or more casually over breakfast while I chat with fellow Schiit-heads on Head-Fi.

The only downside to Yggy 2 is that I know that upgrading my speakers would be worthwhile, but Mr. Plastic is begging for mercy following the Yggy upgrade, and the rest of life (food, gas, and other "essentials").


----------



## RCBinTN

I think, net, based on other posts above (considering your pre-amp and amp), if you go with the GMB you'll still be wondering if it's the "weak link" in your system.
That is a really crappy sentence, but I think you get my idea. Good luck with the journey!


----------



## Dr.J

RCBinTN, that's how my Schiit mani is with my Zana, the amp makes the sound palatable; however, through my speaker system, the mani sounds clinical and mostly 2 dimensional - this is my worry about the Yggy, would not be happy reproducing the Mani experience, although I know that's not likely. 

And, US Blues, I hear you! And, that's right, not the cheapest of hobbies and I'd hate to buy in and find that I'm not happy (I know it's part of the hobby, though, just trying to safeguard against it). To hear you describe your listening experiences, US Blues, makes the Yggy quite inviting. 

Another consideration: I've developed tinnitus (good grief) and so how are these dacs at low volume listening? 

Thanks,

John


----------



## hikaru12

US Blues said:


> I have not compared Yggy to Gumby, but I bought one of the first Yggy's built, and got the upgrade ASAP. "Musical" is an interesting term in regards to a DAC, is the recording musical or is that a sonic character of the DAC adding something to the music that is not on the recording? I find Yggy 2 to be a musical feast, and I find myself fully engaged in my listening, whether it's a deep and focused session, or more casually over breakfast while I chat with fellow Schiit-heads on Head-Fi.
> 
> The only downside to Yggy 2 is that I know that upgrading my speakers would be worthwhile, but Mr. Plastic is begging for mercy following the Yggy upgrade, and the rest of life (food, gas, and other "essentials").



Musical refers to the sense that the DAC does not emphasize the upper treble which while it contains a lot of detail, it grows fatiguing after a while. The Yggy is considered neutral/bright even after a long time of warming up while the Gumby is neutral/warm. Everyone has different tolerances, Aornic listens to Focal Utopias off a Yggy which would sound like swords in my head if I copied the same setup. Also consider that the Gumby has better soundstage than the Yggy which is a great plus to the HD800 which already has a super wide stage to begin with.


----------



## RCBinTN

I don't think you can go wrong with either the GMB or Yggy. Both will beat the Mani by a big margin. 
I was amazed in the SQ improvement when I upgraded from Gungnir DS to GMB. The level of detail in the music just exploded.
So, that too is a consideration. Both DACs will reveal the source very clearly. Well-produced/mastered music sounds amazing.
Since you have a touch of tinnitus, maybe the slightly brighter Yggy sound makes sense...


----------



## US Blues

Dr.J said:


> RCBinTN, that's how my Schiit mani is with my Zana, the amp makes the sound palatable; however, through my speaker system, the mani sounds clinical and mostly 2 dimensional - this is my worry about the Yggy, would not be happy reproducing the Mani experience, although I know that's not likely.
> 
> And, US Blues, I hear you! And, that's right, not the cheapest of hobbies and I'd hate to buy in and find that I'm not happy (I know it's part of the hobby, though, just trying to safeguard against it). To hear you describe your listening experiences, US Blues, makes the Yggy quite inviting.
> 
> ...



I have some tinnitus too, and so I keep the levels low (most of the time). All my observations above still apply. I would add that with Yggy my experience is that what I hear has far more to do with how things were recorded, mixed, and mastered, than the Yggy itself. Like your other electronics it becomes transparent. 

Of course, some of my favorite music was produced in a lamentable fashion, or was recorded live in concert. Hence my interest in a Loki Maxi (w/balance control).


----------



## artur9

I think the Schiit DACs are very good for low level listening given my experience with the Uber and the Gumby.  Now, some music demands to be loud but that's a different thing.

I think, maybe, an Yggy and a Loki might suit the desire for musicality.  If the Yggy is too <xyz> then the Loki can be used to tame it.  

No way to get an Yggy to listen to?


----------



## Dr.J

Thank you all for your responses, appreciated. Neutral/bright may not be the best approach as the system seems already bent in this direction, at least with the Mani - the only working source I have, at the moment.

If I go with the Gumby, I’ll wait out the analogue 2 update.

Unfortunately, the border complicates a trial listen.

Again, thank you!


----------



## gwitzel

Dear all,

I have not posted here for quite a while. I am so happy with my Gumby USB Gen 5 fed by Audirvana from a 2009 Mac Mini, Vidar, and Freya...

However, because of curiosity I started to tinker around with a Rasberry Pi 3B+. I am very happy: There is a way to use the RPI like a microRendu, and the SQ is indeed clearly improved (more details, more open) in comparison to the Mac USB output.

If you are curious: I am running DietPi on the RPI, and I use Audirvana as the source (Audirvana supports network player now). I am simply using the USB output of the RPI. I have an Allo Digione coming my way and a better power supply. Let's see if it is noticable if I cut out all the USB conversion.


----------



## koover

God morning/afternoon
New Gumby owner (and Mjolnir 2) here and still a somewhat noob with electronics so please bare with me if this is such a simple answer to my question. I’m still learning at my old age.

Gumby has 2 SE and 2 Balanced outputs. I own a Sys because I had a LYR2, Jot and Ember 2 sourced through a Mimby.  Still have the Ember and want to use it. Worked great with no issues.

With that out of the way, do I still need to use the SYS if I want to use the Ember with the Gumby and Mjolnir 2? Or can I just input the MJ2 into one of the SE inputs and the Ember into the other SE input? Will this cause issues or am I thinking this through completely wrong? Of course both amps wouldn’t be on at the same time.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## hikaru12

koover said:


> God morning/afternoon
> New Gumby owner (and Mjolnir 2) here and still a somewhat noob with electronics so please bare with me if this is such a simple answer to my question. I’m still learning at my old age.
> 
> Gumby has 2 SE and 2 Balanced outputs. I own a Sys because I had a LYR2, Jot and Ember 2 sourced through a Mimby.  Still have the Ember and want to use it. Worked great with no issues.
> ...



All the outputs on the Gumby are 'on' all the time so whatever is connected will get the analog signal sent to them. Don't use SE w/ the Mjolnir it sounds best fully balanced from end to end.


----------



## koover

Thanks for the response. Back to the SYS.

My issue with balanced on MJ2 is all my HP’s are SE. I don’t own anything balanced. It’ll be a while before I upgrade all my cables.... quite a while.


----------



## Charente

Agree with @hikaru12 that GMB/MJ2 is best balanced all the way through ... I have GMB>MJ2 connection balanced using the relatively inexpensive Schiit PYST cables. To me, that would be the natural starting point. Then I have both MJ2 balanced out to Aeon Flow Open and LYR2 (RCA) connected to the GMB, with SE out for other headphones. I quite like the contrast they provide for different music.


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## koover (Apr 8, 2018)

Thanx for the advice as I purchased the PYST XLR from Schitt. And WTH, I also bought 3 balanced cables for the AFO, Elear and HE-560. So much for waiting quite a while. Seeing that I upgraded to this amp and DAC, why wouldn't I want a balanced system all around? Looking forward to see how much difference I'll be able to hear between SE and balanced.


----------



## RCBinTN

I think you will love the sound of fully balanced system!
Happy listening


----------



## earChasm

I’m so glad I bought the Gumby. It gives me the kick I was missing from the Bifrost yet with no fatique at all. I can listen to music for hours and are amazed how pianos, symbals and tambourines sounds. Sure, it’s not THE real thing but this is the first DAC I heard which trickered memories TO the real thing. It almost makes me regret stop playing the piano.

I also love how easy it is to follow certain instruments like the bass or a specific guitar. And what about hearing instruments which are mostly overshadowed, like the tambourine or triangle. Wow, just wow. I don’t care about measurements or alternatives. This is it :.)

And IMO, the balanced connection is a tiny bit better (more air around the instruments) I would not lose sleep over it. Better spend the extra cash for cables on music, but that’s easy to say once you heard both :.)


----------



## koover (Apr 13, 2018)

New Gumby/MJ2 owner here. About 1 week
Firstly, love it. Major upgrade over Mimby (with LYR2) even though the Mimby is one hellava little monster for what it is. I will miss it....but not too much anymore. 
Question (S) ??
*In Windows 10, when select playback devices, select advancements, pop-up box asks what sample rate do I want. I have selected 24 bit, 96000 Hz (Studio quality) Am I selecting correctly or are there any recommendations to get the most out of The Gumby without jacking up it's capabilities? Have I choose correctly?
*Under enhancement/settings, Bass Boost pops up. I have selected 80 Hz. with no Bass boost. Correct? I want the cleanest, non colored variation of this DAC and don't want to color it in any way other then the default settings "at this point"
*Lastly, any recommendations for "anything" at all that you feel I should take advantage of? Even with the MJ2?

Gumby is paired up with MJ2, components balanced with Schiit PYST XLR, AFO XLR balanced and waiting for XLR cables for HE-560 and Elear XLR. They're from Venus audio which could quite possibly be the weakest piece of the chain as I've read mixed reviews for them. Some members love them, others? Not so much.  They were very reasonably priced so we'll see.

So far this system is over the top sublime to me. I have been in audio bliss for the past 5-7 days (wherever I actually got it) and cannot believe the step-up in quality from LYR2/Mimby to Gumby/MJ2. Whoever says they don't hear a difference between these 2 systems really need to get their ears checked. Mine are all messed up (Tinnitus) and I can hear a dramatic difference and it's not placebo either. Tubes do play a role in the overall tonal balance and sound in what I'm hearing, but I've been a rolling fool since the Gumby has "been powered on" non-stop and have heard many combos. As a side-note, I never powered down the Mimby either when I had it, like the Gumby.

If anyone is interested, I'll shoot over my thoughts in another week or so that I may offer myself the opportunity to really listen to my beautiful and killer new gear.


----------



## hikaru12

Yea I’d definitely be curious to hear your thoughts on the MJ2 seeing as i got a Gumby and I’m looking for a balanced SS amp. It’s a tie between this and the Cayin IHA-6.


----------



## koover

hikaru12 said:


> Yea I’d definitely be curious to hear your thoughts on the MJ2 seeing as i got a Gumby and I’m looking for a balanced SS amp. It’s a tie between this and the Cayin IHA-6.


I'd love to hear the Auteur on this set-up. You're a lucky guy to me at least as that's the HP I salivate over....but it ain't gonna happen anywhere in the near future.
I'm sure you know the MJ2 isn't a SS amp as you mentioned what you're looking for.


----------



## acguitar84

I think I asked this before but do you like the mj2 better than jot?


----------



## rkw

koover said:


> In Windows 10, when select playback devices, select advancements, pop-up box asks what sample rate do I want. I have selected 24 bit, 96000 Hz (Studio quality) Am I selecting correctly or are there any recommendations to get the most out of The Gumby without jacking up it's capabilities?


Select the sample rate of your source material (e.g. 16 bit, 44100 Hz for files ripped from CD). Otherwise Windows will resample the data to the rate you selected. The audio community considers the Windows resampling algorithm to be poor quality. Best for the DAC to receive the original data (it may do its own resampling internally).


----------



## koover

rkw said:


> Select the sample rate of your source material (e.g. 16 bit, 44100 Hz for files ripped from CD). Otherwise Windows will resample the data to the rate you selected. The audio community considers the Windows resampling algorithm to be poor quality. Best for the DAC to receive the original data (it may do its own resampling internally).


Ok thanks for your response man.


----------



## koover

acguitar84 said:


> I think I asked this before but do you like the mj2 better than jot?


If you’re asking me which I believe you are, I’ll respond later tonight.
Working unfortunately but always have time to stop by Headfi.
 I can’t do anything 1/2 a$$ed so I’ll put a bit of thought into it other then a yes or no.


----------



## acguitar84

koover said:


> If you’re asking me which I believe you are, I’ll respond later tonight.
> Working unfortunately but always have time to stop by Headfi.
> I can’t do anything 1/2 a$$ed so I’ll put a bit of thought into it other then a yes or no.


Sounds good, thanks.


----------



## koover

acguitar84 said:


> I think I asked this before but do you like the mj2 better than jot?


Personally, I like it a lot better just because I'm a tube guy, but better?.....they're different so it's hard to say in all reality but if I had to pick one over the other, it would be the MJ2. They both have the same characteristics with the Jot being more on the bright side but that bass! It's the Jot. Another thing I need to keep in mind is I didn't have the Gumby paired with the Jot at all. The MJ2 and Gumby is like a match made in heaven so I lost out on how well it could perform with a better DAC. Even though the the Mimby is great DAC and for the money, it doesn't hold a candle to the Gumby. The nuances in the music you hear with the Gumby, I never heard with the Mimby. Couple that with the MJ2 and the sounds I'm not getting is on another level. The Jot I would believe would sound so much better with the Gumby and I kind of regret not having the opportunity to test them out together.
Bottom line though, I think I'll regret selling my Jot as it's such a great SS amp and for the price, hard to beat. I can see myself picking it up again because the LISST tubes in the MJ2 don't come close to the Jot.
So for me, yes, I definitely like the MJ2 more then the Jot because I can roll tubes to my hearts content. It's a rabbit hole I really didn't want to go down but I dug really deep.


----------



## Don Quichotte

Merely selecting 16 bits 44.1 kHz is better, but not quite ideal because Windows might still mess with your bits. Best is to use a playback program such as Foobar2000 and install Wasapi plugin (or Asio) in order to get bit-perfect output from your PC. In addition, some people also hear an improvement when using a program such as Fidelizer - do a bit of research.
Another option, if you have your music on CDs, would be to feed the Gumby with some nice crunchy bits by using a dedicated CD transport. Coaxial SPDIF is the preferred format, and the BNC input is supposedly better than the RCA one. When I had a Gumby, my lowly Cambridge D300 - very short diy (nothing fancy) BNC-BNC digital cable - Gumby was slightly but noticeably better sounding (clearer, mainly) than Windows 7 (or 10) PC with Foobar2000 and Wasapi - low end USB cable - USB Gen5 Gumby.


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 14, 2018)

You should try feeding Tidal, and set it for it to choose the oringinal bitrate of the tracks.  Tracks sound clearer when you set it like this.  You can hear it going off like a relay everytime the DAC changes to the bitrate of the track.  I notice audible difference from the DAC being set to the fixed oversampling rate.


----------



## koover (Apr 14, 2018)

SilverEars said:


> You should try feeding Tidal, and set it for it to choose the oringinal bitrate of the tracks.  Tracks sound clearer when you set it like this.  You can hear it going off like a relay everytime the DAC changes to the bitrate of the track.  I notice audible difference from the DAC being set to the fixed oversampling rate.


I do feed Tidal but man, it lags so bad that it's rendered the app almost useless. It can take up to 30+ seconds in it's buffer state to actually pull up a song or when I select another artist. I was swapping over my entire library from Spotify to Tidal and it would take me literally up to a minute or 2 to search the artist (every album of theirs) then save them to my library. Just couldn't do it nor have the patience. My account is frozen as I have maxed out all my storage, so you can imagine how long this would take me to swap everything over. My Spotify account also won't allow me to save anything else either because I'm maxed out but everything is instant when I select something or add/delete.
Do you use Tidal and if so, is it off a PC? I've read a couple other comments from members who said the exact same thing when streaming with PC. I'd love to use it but because it's so slow, it's forced me into using Spotify premium . Kinda sucks TBH.


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 14, 2018)

Sounds like your internet connection is not fast enough to stream without a long buffer time.

I use Tidal off of my PC.  I think a lot of audiophiles are drawn to it due to the direct DAC acess and the Masters tracks available(which would take a speedier connection), and being up to full CD quality streams, although I've heard people say 320 is just fine without being able to tell the difference in a blind test.


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 14, 2018)

I read somewhere that if you set in Tidal stream setting for a particular DAC, it sets the Tidal software for direct DAC access(perhaps like WASAPI) instead of going through windows software.

I wonder if there is detail explaination how this works  out there as I need to be convinced of this.

I have also experienced a portable audio player that you have an option to set to fixed 32-bit XMOS mode or let it choose the track's bit depth and sampling rate automatically.  Leting it choose automatically of the file's original bit depth and sampling was audibly better.  Having it fixed at higher made it sound less detailed and smoothed out in sound.


----------



## koover

SilverEars said:


> Sounds like your internet connection is not fast enough to stream without a long buffer time.
> 
> I use Tidal off of my PC.  I think a lot of audiophiles are drawn to it due to the direct DAC acess and the Masters tracks available(which would take a speedier connection), and being up to full CD quality streams, although I've heard people say 320 is just fine without being able to tell the difference in a blind test.


Trust me, I have the fastest connection available and I pay through the nose for it too. There must be something hosed in my operating system even though it was just reinstalled. Every other app just fly's like the wind except for Tidal. Strange!


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 14, 2018)

I get hiccups every so often.  Like the Apple loading thing on the play/pause button, but I just fastford those particular tracks.

I have compared Mimby to Gumby.  Gumby  does sound better.  Gumby does have a particular sound like the Mojo as I have tried feeding amps different SS Amps and the DAC characteristics were more or less consistant(at least with 2 amps I've tried).  Gumby does have an interesting holography to sounds with live recordings.

I actually like my Bryston BHA-1 the most.  I like the tonality, it has more sense of realism and holography.  I even tried the GSX MK2, and BHA-1's tonality edges it out in terms of realism and transparency.  BHA-1 I trust as a generally reference sounding Amp.  I find that BHA-1 has a slight warmth for a SS to bring out realism to the tonality.  It sounds transparent to me.  I actually notice difference of Balanced to SE with this amp.


----------



## SilverEars

Anybody compare the Gumby to RME adi-2 DAC?


----------



## hikaru12

Don Quichotte said:


> Merely selecting 16 bits 44.1 kHz is better, but not quite ideal because Windows might still mess with your bits. Best is to use a playback program such as Foobar2000 and install Wasapi plugin (or Asio) in order to get bit-perfect output from your PC. In addition, some people also hear an improvement when using a program such as Fidelizer - do a bit of research.
> Another option, if you have your music on CDs, would be to feed the Gumby with some nice crunchy bits by using a dedicated CD transport. Coaxial SPDIF is the preferred format, and the BNC input is supposedly better than the RCA one. When I had a Gumby, my lowly Cambridge D300 - very short diy (nothing fancy) BNC-BNC digital cable - Gumby was slightly but noticeably better sounding (clearer, mainly) than Windows 7 (or 10) PC with Foobar2000 and Wasapi - low end USB cable - USB Gen5 Gumby.



I was considering a Wireworld glass optical cable to feed the Gumby as I believe the USB input even with Gen 5 suffers from the same stuff that the Mimby did just to a lesser degree. Aornic I think mentioned to not use the USB as well but I don't have a Coaxial output from my PC. Should I get a transport?


----------



## SilverEars

SilverEars said:


> I get hiccups every so often.  Like the Apple loading thing on the play/pause button, but I just fastford those particular tracks.
> 
> I have compared Mimby to Gumby.  Gumby  does sound better.  Gumby does have a particular sound like the Mojo as I have tried feeding amps different SS Amps and the DAC characteristics were more or less consistant(at least with 2 amps I've tried).  Gumby does have an interesting holography to sounds with live recordings.
> 
> I actually like my Bryston BHA-1 the most.  I like the tonality, it has more sense of realism and holography.  I even tried the GSX MK2, and BHA-1's tonality edges it out in terms of realism and transparency.  BHA-1 I trust as a generally reference sounding Amp.  I find that BHA-1 has a slight warmth for a SS to bring out realism to the tonality.  It sounds transparent to me.  I actually notice difference of Balanced to SE with this amp.


Sorry if this was a confusing.  Bryston BHA-1 and GSX MK2 are both amps, and I'm just comparing amps that I like.


----------



## Dr.J (Apr 14, 2018)

No need to apologize!


----------



## Don Quichotte

hikaru12 said:


> I was considering a Wireworld glass optical cable to feed the Gumby as I believe the USB input even with Gen 5 suffers from the same stuff that the Mimby did just to a lesser degree. Aornic I think mentioned to not use the USB as well but I don't have a Coaxial output from my PC. Should I get a transport?


Yes, I would get a (reasonably good) CD transport or CD player with coaxial digital output. Some have recommended the Cambridge CXC, but I think I have also read a few negative comments, can't remember the details though. Personally I have only heard 3 CD players used as transports: my Cambridge D300, an entry level Nad  (clearly worse) and a 1000 dollars Studer pro CD player (better).


----------



## RCBinTN

SilverEars said:


> I actually like my Bryston BHA-1 the most. I like the tonality, it has more sense of realism and holography. I even tried the GSX MK2, and BHA-1's tonality edges it out in terms of realism and transparency. BHA-1 I trust as a generally reference sounding Amp. I find that BHA-1 has a slight warmth for a SS to bring out realism to the tonality. It sounds transparent to me.


I agree 100%. The GMB and BHA-1 is a sublime pairing.
The BHA-1 just gets out of the way of the music and, for a SS amp, it's not edgy or bright...very musical.
The build quality is excellent and it comes with a 20-yr warranty.
Check out the build.....




ps. I'm not affiliated with Bryston, just a happy customer.


----------



## luckybaer

After much research, testing, etc., I decided to spring for the Gumby.  I don't care if Schiit announces an available upgrade to Gumby tomorrow.  

I'll be feeding it to my Vali 2 and Magni 3 and comparing it to the Mimby for the next couple of months.  That should get me very comfortable with the Gumby and give me a lot of time to figure out which headphone amp would make a good pairing.


----------



## RCBinTN

luckybaer said:


> After much research, testing, etc., I decided to spring for the Gumby.  I don't care if Schiit announces an available upgrade to Gumby tomorrow.
> 
> I'll be feeding it to my Vali 2 and Magni 3 and comparing it to the Mimby for the next couple of months.  That should get me very comfortable with the Gumby and give me a lot of time to figure out which headphone amp would make a good pairing.


Congratulations...you will love it. Needs some time at first, to break-in, then leave it powered up all the time. Enjoy!


----------



## acguitar84

luckybaer said:


> After much research, testing, etc., I decided to spring for the Gumby.  I don't care if Schiit announces an available upgrade to Gumby tomorrow.
> 
> I'll be feeding it to my Vali 2 and Magni 3 and comparing it to the Mimby for the next couple of months.  That should get me very comfortable with the Gumby and give me a lot of time to figure out which headphone amp would make a good pairing.


I'll look forward to reading your comparisons (of gumby) to mimby!


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 21, 2018)

RCBinTN said:


> I agree 100%. The GMB and BHA-1 is a sublime pairing.
> The BHA-1 just gets out of the way of the music and, for a SS amp, it's not edgy or bright...very musical.
> The build quality is excellent and it comes with a 20-yr warranty.
> Check out the build.....
> ...


Interesting thing is, this amp has been around since 2012, but talk of it has died down due to it being a grandpa(people want to talk about the new stuff I guess). But, the performance of this amp is undeniable.

Generally, I rely on this amp as a reference for any headphone(except the HD800 that I never tried with it). And yes, I like it with the Gumby.

It has lots of power, and can drive very hard to drive stuff in balanced, but also with single ended it can handle more efficient headphones with 2 ohm output impedance.  It meets the technicalities and the sound.


----------



## SilverEars

What music software do you all use?

Does anybody use Foobar 2000?  I'm just wondering what you use, ASIO or WASAPI and what the differences are?  Does ASIO mode come up with the Schiit drivers?  What ASIO or WASAPI drivers do you use for Foobar 2000?

I use Tidal as well, and quite like it in the chain.


----------



## hikaru12

SilverEars said:


> Interesting thing is, this amp has been around since 2012, but talk of it has died down due to it being a grandpa(people want to talk about the new stuff I guess). But, the performance of this amp is undeniable.
> 
> Generally, I rely on this amp as a reference for any headphone(except the HD800 that I never tried with it). And yes, I like it with the Gumby.
> 
> It has lots of power, and can drive very hard to drive stuff in balanced, but also with single ended it can handle more efficient headphones with 2 ohm output impedance.  It meets the technicalities and the sound.



My local music shop carries it - it's heavy as hell and because it costs them a bit of money to have to deal w/ repairs for their lengthy warranty they have to ensure the quality is outstanding. I'll have to ask my store to let me demo this next time.


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 21, 2018)

hikaru12 said:


> My local music shop carries it - it's heavy as hell and because it costs them a bit of money to have to deal w/ repairs for their lengthy warranty they have to ensure the quality is outstanding. I'll have to ask my store to let me demo this next time.


When I first heard it at the audio shop I was impressed with a live recording, Jazz at the Pawnshop, and Ayre Codex was fed to it.  I've compared Ayre Codex and Gumby, and they sound identical interestingly(the big difference is the size of both DACs, and interesting how small the Codex is in comparison).

What was interesting about this amp is the ambient sounds that comes to the forefront and can have a bit of that holography in the sounds(recordings like live jazz, particularly Jazz at the Pawnshop is rich in those information).  You'd have to compare with something that has those particular attributes like live recordings.  With the right headphone, you can hear the accuracy of the instrumental timbre with this amp.

You maybe more of a tube guy though looking at your sig.  Interestingly, BHA-1 sounds less solid-state than the hyped up CTH(or this tube hybrid doesn't sound tube). LOL.


----------



## hikaru12 (Apr 21, 2018)

SilverEars said:


> When I first heard it at the audio shop I was impressed with a live recording, Jazz at the Pawnshop, and Ayre Codex was fed to it.  I've compared Ayre Codex and Gumby, and they sound identical interestingly.
> 
> What was interesting about this amp is the ambient sounds that comes to the forefront and can have a bit of that holography in the sounds(recordings like live jazz, particularly Jazz at the Pawnshop is rich in those information).  You'd have to compare with something that has those particular attributes like live recordings.  With the right headphone, you can hear the accuracy of the instrumental timbre with this amp.
> 
> You maybe more of a tube guy though looking at your sig.  Interestingly, BHA-1 sounds less solid-state than the hyped up CTH(or this tube hybrid doesn't sound tube). LOL.



Thanks for your impressions man. I've also heard that it sounds pretty musical considering how neutral and transparent it is. Yeah I'm a tube guy as a lot of SS's I've heard really just bring up the dynamics (by that, really just the volume) and the bass. I've yet to hear a solid state that possesses the strengths of a tube amp without their pitfalls. I'd love to go all balanced w/ the Gumby since my headphones are balanced too.



SilverEars said:


> Does anybody use Foobar 2000?



Yea, WASAPI output unless the DAC comes w/ ASIO drivers. Even then there are times I like manually oversampling to 24 bit as it can help out w/ detail sometimes. I personally think WASAPI is better than ASIO when it comes to Foobar as it allows for more tweaking. JRiver probably integrates better w/ ASIO tho. 

I just bought a BlueSound Node so I'm excited to try that as a frontend as well.


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 21, 2018)

Try feeding tidal with the audio streaming setting directly to the Gumby and having it choosing the sampling rate of the steaming data's rate(you can hear Gumby's relay going off every time it changes).  It's in the streaming setting and let me know.  I like it a lot!

I'm wondering Gumby's interation with Tidal setting is essentially WASAPI.


----------



## hikaru12

SilverEars said:


> Try feeding tidal with the audio streaming setting directly to the Gumby and it choosing the sampling rate of the steaming data's rate(you can hear Gumby's relay going off every time it changes).  It's in the streaming setting and let me know.  I like it a lot!
> 
> I'm wondering Gumby's interation with Tidal setting is essentially WASAPI.



I'll give it a shot - I'm definitely enjoying the MQA selection even though the changes are subtle from the records I've heard - you can hear more detail, better dynamics, and a smoother more analog presentation. Makes RedBook seems digital by comparison sometimes.


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 21, 2018)

hikaru12 said:


> I'll give it a shot - I'm definitely enjoying the MQA selection even though the changes are subtle from the records I've heard - you can hear more detail, better dynamics, and a smoother more analog presentation. Makes RedBook seems digital by comparison sometimes.


IME, the original sampling rate chosen by the DAC sounds better for some reason, rather than having it direct at max bit and sampling.  I've noticed this with my DAP as well as it has 32bit XMOS fixed or automatic. I use automatic to the original file's bit and rate.


----------



## hikaru12

SilverEars said:


> IME, the original sampling rate chosen by the DAC sounds better for some reason, rather than having it direct at max bit and sampling.  I've noticed this with my DAP as well as it has 32bit XMOS fixed or automatic.



Yea you're not really supposed to oversample. I don't really know how it works but if you're at 16/44 you should keep it at that level. At 16 bit it sounds louder and more dynamic, at 24 bit a song will sound quieter but detail will be easier to pick up. I've A/B this several times and specifically with micro-detail buried in the mix it's easier to pull out with 24 bit. It could be due to the larger volume graduations w/ 24 bit but you really just want to let the DAC DSP filter oversample for you.


----------



## SilverEars

hikaru12 said:


> Yea you're not really supposed to oversample. I don't really know how it works but if you're at 16/44 you should keep it at that level. At 16 bit it sounds louder and more dynamic, at 24 bit a song will sound quieter but detail will be easier to pick up. I've A/B this several times and specifically with micro-detail buried in the mix it's easier to pull out with 24 bit. It could be due to the larger volume graduations w/ 24 bit but you really just want to let the DAC DSP filter oversample for you.


What I notice is when I over-sample to max, it doesn't sound as detailed as the original sampling rate, so I prefer to have the DAC changing the bit and rate according to the file.  When I over-sampled, it sounded like the details were smoothed out a bit.


----------



## RCBinTN

Good to hear the BHA-1 is now a grandpa! Me, too.
For reference, Mike @Baldr recommends NOS with the Schiit MB DACs.


----------



## Audiofiend1

Is getting a gumby going to make a huge noticeable difference over an 02 dac, for an HD 800s, thoughts?


----------



## RCBinTN

What is an O2 (or is that 02) dac?


----------



## RCBinTN

Hey @SilverEars do you have the HD800? If so, give them a run with the GMB + BHA-1.

Very decent, IMO. I am not affected for some reason by the dreaded 6kHz peak (is it real?) in the HD800.
But...the BHA-1 isn't a bright amp anyway. The pairing is decent...

Cheers,
RCB


----------



## Audiofiend1

RCBinTN said:


> What is an O2 (or is that 02) dac?


Yes it an 02 dac, i have the JDS objective 2 odac combo


----------



## RCBinTN

So I am guessing it's this one...
https://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/objective2-odac-combo-revb/
Not much info about the DAC design there.

Anyway, a GMB with Gen 5 USB is a big upgrade from the JDS product.
Beware - the GMB is only a DAC. You will need to pair it with an amplifier.

Happy journeys!
RCB


----------



## Ableza

I tried the JDS ODAC.  Didn't like it.  In fact I have one with the mini jack output if anyone wants it, I'll make you a screaming deal.


----------



## Audiofiend1

I am eyeing the Gumby and i am half persuaded to buy it, however here is my issue and maybe some of you can set me straight or not.... It's videos like these that make me wonder if an upgrade from my 02 to the Gumby is really worth the 1.2k investment. are we just fooling ourselves???


----------



## earChasm

Audiofiend1 said:


> I am eyeing the Gumby and i am half persuaded to buy it, however here is my issue and maybe some of you can set me straight or not.... It's videos like these that make me wonder if an upgrade from my 02 to the Gumby is really worth the 1.2k investment. are we just fooling ourselves???



Fooling as in “all dacs sound the same?

I know (IMHO) for a fact that with DAC (x) I couldn’t listen to music for more than one hour (serious fatique) unless using EQ. And with the Gumby I can for 8 hours straight, no problem whatsoever without mods or EQ (HD800).

I also know (IMHO) for a fact that the Gumby gives me way more goosebumps than the Bifrost (or any other DAC) did. It happens so often I actually think it’s funny and YES, this experience (2 me) is worth spending 1.2k and fully blowing my total audio budget.

If you meant “Modi 2 sounds exactly the same as Gumby” then I don’t know but I certainly don’t hope so .
I never heard the O2 so can’t comment on that.


----------



## Audiofiend1

earChasm said:


> Fooling as in “all dacs sound the same?
> 
> I know (IMHO) for a fact that with DAC (x) I couldn’t listen to music for more than one hour (serious fatique) unless using EQ. And with the Gumby I can for 8 hours straight, no problem whatsoever without mods or EQ (HD800).
> 
> ...


You make some good points. i suppose i mean that with all these DAC's out there at all different price points you just wonder if you think it sounds good because you paid so much and thus, are expecting the DAC to sound good because you have just made such an investment that, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Now PLEASE do not get me wrong i do not believe this i am just simply pointing out this criticism that a lot of people make regarding DAC's. Maybe it's because they aren't really listening to the music properly, their setup is wrong, or a whole host of other maybes...All that really matters at the end of the day is if YOU are enjoying your DAC and headphone. Still, i have to pose the question in the interest of saving time and money that could be better spent on a better headphone or amp or anything in-between. This is why i am so hesitant to buy the GUMBY at this moment and maybe i am completely wrong, so it's nice to get other people's point of view.


----------



## earChasm

Audiofiend1 said:


> You make some good points. i suppose i mean that with all these DAC's out there at all different price points you just wonder if you think it sounds good because you paid so much and thus, are expecting the DAC to sound good because you have just made such an investment that, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.


To me that is a real danger but up to a point. I don’t think I can fool myself not having fatique or earpain. Or fake goosebumps for that matter :.)
I do think (talking about myself) that each upgrade of mine was not as big as I experienced it, if you know what I mean. I even dare to say some upgrades where pure placebo.


----------



## artur9

I think the Gumby was worth the upgrade over the UberFrost I have.  The tonality of instruments seems more authentic/real and the soundstage is better.  But I use speakers, not headphones.

I was looking for a DAC with balanced outputs.  Tthe Gumby's price made it an easy choice.


----------



## hikaru12 (Apr 25, 2018)

Audiofiend1 said:


> I am eyeing the Gumby and i am half persuaded to buy it, however here is my issue and maybe some of you can set me straight or not.... It's videos like these that make me wonder if an upgrade from my 02 to the Gumby is really worth the 1.2k investment. are we just fooling ourselves???




That guy doesn't know what he's talking about. This isn't some big conspiracy to get you to buy more stuff - as always upgrading your headphones will be the biggest upgrade. The more transparent the system the more you will notice those changes. I'm lucky to have found a dealer near me that lets me try a bunch of high end equipment and cables first to see if I like the changes. The people who say this stuff don't either own the equipment long term or don't have the right synergy w/ their system or honestly just love to hate on more expensive products.

Case and point - I got to try a Chord Dave in home for a week and I really liked it for speakers but not for headphones. It also costs $13,000 so more than most people's first used car. That being said, I don't hate on it and I believe it is worth the upgrade to someone but not for me because I don't listen solely on speakers but I wouldn't say it's overhyped, not worth the price, etc. It definitely is, just not on my equipment. These people that do these reviews never explain their sonic preferences and half the time don't explain their source equipment either.

So to answer your question - absolutely not we're not fooling ourselves. If you're narrowing in on a specific sound characteristic such as micro-detail etc. you may not end up enjoying the entire DAC for what it is and for the Gumby that's a smooth, detailed sound that can slam with cans that slam or soothe you with more laid back ones.


----------



## Ableza

The Gungnir Multibit costs less than the Wavelength Brick it replaced in my office headphone system.  It sounds much better to my ears.


----------



## RCBinTN

I've not heard the Modi 2, but if you like the sound then save your money and invest it elsewhere.

My DAC progression was BiFrost -> Gungnir -> GMB -> GMB + Gen 5 USB.
Every step improved the listening experience for me. The biggest improvement was Gungnir to GMB...

I've heard the Yggdrasil (at headphone meets) and it's a very impressive DAC, but I'm happy with my GMB + Gen 5.
In this hobby, as in most, you will reach the point of diminishing returns.

Happy Listening!
RCB


----------



## Audiofiend1

Well Schiit...i think that settles it, after agonizing over it i think i'm just about persuaded to buy the Mjolnir 2 and the Gumby multibit combo stack. It will be a major upgrade from my Objective 02 combo that i have used for all my headphones for years now. It's always felt to me that my listening experience has been somewhat half baked, and this is why i have kept buying new phones but never upgraded my amp or dac, i am hooping this turns things around for me. Often i get listener fatigue after long periods and i'm beginning to think the O2 may not be up to the job anymore, i think i have finally outgrown it. Considering this investment is going to cost me $2200 i just hope it's enough to last me years to come, everything i have read and it's been almost this whole forum at this point indicates to me that this combo is definitely a end game worthy Dac/amp combo. Maybe i am missing something still though, are there any other dac/amp combos that i should consider instead? I will be primarily using this combo for my HD800s and LCD 2. Lasty do you think this combo is good for IEM's? i have a pair of SENN 846 and IE 800 although this isn't a big deal to me as i use a Dragonfly red for these.


----------



## hikaru12

Audiofiend1 said:


> Well Schiit...i think that settles it, after agonizing over it i think i'm just about persuaded to buy the Mjolnir 2 and the Gumby multibit combo stack. It will be a major upgrade from my Objective 02 combo that i have used for all my headphones for years now. It's always felt to me that my listening experience has been somewhat half baked, and this is why i have kept buying new phones but never upgraded my amp or dac, i am hooping this turns things around for me. Often i get listener fatigue after long periods and i'm beginning to think the O2 may not be up to the job anymore, i think i have finally outgrown it. Considering this investment is going to cost me $2200 i just hope it's enough to last me years to come, everything i have read and it's been almost this whole forum at this point indicates to me that this combo is definitely a end game worthy Dac/amp combo. Maybe i am missing something still though, are there any other dac/amp combos that i should consider instead? I will be primarily using this combo for my HD800s and LCD 2. Lasty do you think this combo is good for IEM's? i have a pair of SENN 846 and IE 800 although this isn't a big deal to me as i use a Dragonfly red for these.



I think that combo will be great for the HD800's as both are warm and the Mjolnir will bring out some subbass slam of the HD800's and power the LCD 2's nicely. Get some Amperax Orange Globes and the LCD 2's turn into from great to really damn good. IEMS will get you some hiss because the MJ2 uses tubes but it should be minimal. I think that's a nice setup and I'd be surprised if you didn't like it for the long term. Those are great complimentary headphones for each other as well.


----------



## Audiofiend1

Should i include a WYRD in my order? Does it really clean up the usb sound source, or is just not needed for the gumby?


----------



## Audiofiend1 (Apr 26, 2018)

hikaru12 said:


> I think that combo will be great for the HD800's as both are warm and the Mjolnir will bring out some subbass slam of the HD800's and power the LCD 2's nicely. Get some Amperax Orange Globes and the LCD 2's turn into from great to really damn good. IEMS will get you some hiss because the MJ2 uses tubes but it should be minimal. I think that's a nice setup and I'd be surprised if you didn't like it for the long term. Those are great complimentary headphones for each other as well.


To be honest with you i don't know much about tubes, being that i have been stuck with my SS 02 for years, i'll see about upgrading and maybe getting something like the orange amperex globes, but are the included tubes with the Mjolnir not good already? Also for the IEM's i can just switch it to the SS mode right, so tubes won't be an issue for them?


----------



## Globox

Audiofiend1 said:


> Should i include a WYRD in my order? Does it really clean up the usb sound source, or is just not needed for the gumby?


Absolutly useless with Gumby Gen 5 USB


----------



## earChasm

Audiofiend1 said:


> Well Schiit...i think that settles it, after agonizing over it i think i'm just about persuaded to buy the Mjolnir 2 and the Gumby multibit combo stack... Maybe i am missing something still though, are there any other dac/amp combos that i should consider instead?


Great setup and the Mjolnir is the only bug left in my head and probably will be untill I tried one:.)

When I bought the HDVA600 I wasn’t considering the Gumby coz the Asgard 2 with the Bifrost 4490 sounded so good. Unfortunately the Bifrost + HDVA600 combo is a bit less, the spark is missing. Because my HD800 sounded so good with the HDVA600, I didn’t return it but decided to take a leap of faith and bought the Gumby. That is my end game DAC, period. To me this combo sounds fantastic!

Thing is... if the Mjolnir SS combo sounds similar or dare I say better, I prefer a matching stack. If I never get to hear it that’s fine too, I’m enjoying the hell out of my setup:.)

I hope the Schiit stack brings you all that you are looking for!


----------



## Audiofiend1

earChasm said:


> Great setup and the Mjolnir is the only bug left in my head and probably will be untill I tried one:.)
> 
> When I bought the HDVA600 I wasn’t considering the Gumby coz the Asgard 2 with the Bifrost 4490 sounded so good. Unfortunately the Bifrost + HDVA600 combo is a bit less, the spark is missing. Because my HD800 sounded so good with the HDVA600, I didn’t return it but decided to take a leap of faith and bought the Gumby. That is my end game DAC, period. To me this combo sounds fantastic!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the vote of confidence, with shipping + sales tax (curse you California 9.25%) the stack comes out to over 2400, so it's nice to know you have the gumby and are happy with it as your end game  i looked at getting the HDV820 or the Woo audio Wa22 but it's just too expensive for me to not have a dac (gotta draw the line somewhere) and i really can't go on using my 02 dac with one of those more premier amps, it just ain't right!  All hoping i'm going to place my order tomorrow, i feel like a kid waiting for Christmas! Schiit we picked an expensive hobby, but man you gotta love these kind of moments


----------



## earChasm

Audiofiend1 said:


> Thanks for the vote of confidence, with shipping + sales tax (curse you California 9.25%) the stack comes out to over 2400...


Try The Netherlands, here the tax is 21%


----------



## Audiofiend1

earChasm said:


> Try The Netherlands, here the tax is 21%


That's what i call highway robbery GG...


----------



## RCBinTN

earChasm said:


> Great setup and the Mjolnir is the only bug left in my head and probably will be untill I tried one:.)
> 
> When I bought the HDVA600 I wasn’t considering the Gumby coz the Asgard 2 with the Bifrost 4490 sounded so good. Unfortunately the Bifrost + HDVA600 combo is a bit less, the spark is missing. Because my HD800 sounded so good with the HDVA600, I didn’t return it but decided to take a leap of faith and bought the Gumby. That is my end game DAC, period. To me this combo sounds fantastic!
> 
> ...



A great post of your experience!
What I noticed was the DAC is the real choke point holding back the rig...

I, too, had the HDVA600 amp. It was paired with the D/S Gungnir DAC.
The SQ was not so great...just OK.
Then, I upgraded to the GMB, and everything opened up.
I started to learn how good the HD800 really sound...
By that time, I was already to the Bryston BHA-1 amp.

I had thought the amp was the problem, but I was wrong! 
It was a less-than-fully resolving DAC.

Good lessons here, folks.
Cheers!
RCB


----------



## hikaru12

RCBinTN said:


> A great post of your experience!
> What I noticed was the DAC is the real choke point holding back the rig...
> 
> I, too, had the HDVA600 amp. It was paired with the D/S Gungnir DAC.
> ...



How are you liking the BHA-1? I'm auditioning one again on Saturday because I literally walked in 20 mins before closing time at my dealers. It sounded too me like it got out of the way but still had that solid state glare to it. This was listening to them from the LCD 3's.


----------



## Audiofiend1

Placed my order today for my stack combo - Mjolnir 2 + Gumby multi. This might sound like a noob question but how do i connect the gumby to the Mjolnir amp? Should i buy any plugs or connectors before it arrives at me or should all the connections be included in the box?


----------



## earChasm

Audiofiend1 said:


> Placed my order today for my stack combo - Mjolnir 2 + Gumby multi. This might sound like a noob question but how do i connect the gumby to the Mjolnir amp? Should i buy any plugs or connectors before it arrives at me or should all the connections be included in the box?


Ooops, you should have ordered the PYST XLR set from Schiit. Uh, so all you need is 2 XLR (3 pins) cables :.)


----------



## Audiofiend1

earChasm said:


> Ooops, you should have ordered the PYST XLR set from Schiit. Uh, so all you need is 2 XLR (3 pins) cables :.)


Yaay i love paying for shipping twice!  ...ahh oh well probably should of asked this first. Do you know if i will need a "wall wart" (there's a few options on their site) or what kind of adapter i would need to power this all?


----------



## Globox

make your XLR cables yourself. They will be even better !


----------



## earChasm

Audiofiend1 said:


> Yaay i love paying for shipping twice!  ...ahh oh well probably should of asked this first. Do you know if i will need a "wall wart" (there's a few options on their site) or what kind of adapter i would need to power this all?


For the Gungnir none. A powerchord is included.
Can’t you e-mail Schiit and ask if they can include it? Shouldnt b a problem.


----------



## Audiofiend1

earChasm said:


> For the Gungnir none. A powerchord is included.
> Can’t you e-mail Schiit and ask if they can include it? Shouldnt b a problem.


I did about an hour ago, hopefully they can resolve it for me and add those XLR cables to my order. Not sure about making my own haha


----------



## Globox

Well, it is really easy to do.


----------



## Audiofiend1

i have soldered, spliced and played around with cables before, maybe i will eventually, but for now i'm happy just to buy. @Globox


----------



## JerryLeeds

You could just get something from eBay to start out with ... The link below is for one 6 inch cable .... .. lots of others to chose from ..

https://www.ebay.com/p/E02100-6-Inc...tention-Cable-Cord/760739133?iid=222281110020


----------



## RCBinTN

hikaru12 said:


> How are you liking the BHA-1? I'm auditioning one again on Saturday because I literally walked in 20 mins before closing time at my dealers. It sounded too me like it got out of the way but still had that solid state glare to it. This was listening to them from the LCD 3's.


It will depend on what DAC your dealer pairs with the BHA-1...

There was some brightness in my rig with the D/S Gungnir DAC.
With the Gungnir MB, the glare went away and the music sounds much more "analog."

I am a SS amp guy and don't care for the warmer sound of tube amps.
IMO, the BHA-1 is not a bright SS amp - it's quite neutral.
That includes listening with my HD800 that are bright HPs to begin with!

With the right DAC, your LCD-3 should sound great with the BHA-1.
It certainly drives my LCD-4 to a wonderful level.

Happy Listening!
RCB

ps. If it still sounds bright, you can always switch the BHA-1 to low gain.


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 27, 2018)

What got me was that BHA-1 was paired with Ayre Codex(which to me sounds identical to Gumby).  Which I think is FPGA based DAC. They had the Utopia for me to try, and I was impressed.

I would try SE and low gain if the headphone is on the sensitive side.  BHA-1 does have a lot gain even in low gain sigle ended.

I think Gumby balanced output with high gain balanced, there so much power to drive difficult headphones I think.  It seems more powerful than the GSX MK2 balanced even.  I was at the same volume level with somebody driving headphones out of Mcintosh speaker amp tabs with the same headphone, HEK.  Perhaps they under rate or rate true power capability(in their specs, they are specific about power delivered to varieties of loads)  I got a feeling BHA-1 in high gain, balanced input/output would drive a HE6 pretty good.  It is the more stronger amps I've tried.


----------



## hikaru12

RCBinTN said:


> It will depend on what DAC your dealer pairs with the BHA-1...
> 
> There was some brightness in my rig with the D/S Gungnir DAC.
> With the Gungnir MB, the glare went away and the music sounds much more "analog."
> ...



Yeah I think that's the problem - my particular dealer prefers DACs that are Sigma Delta and actually scoff at the idea of using 'outdated' R2R DAC technology - probably because they've never heard it implemented well. It kind of sucks because it gives me a bad impression of what the amp actually sounds like but I still got the impression that it gets out of the way. Even with high impedance headphones I don't feel the need to go to high gain because balanced outputs are pretty powerful as is.

I haven't decided if I absolutely need it yet because my source is doing some pre-amping so my tube amp volume levels are perfectly appreciable but some tubes actually have pretty low gain and I don't want to spend an arm and a leg having to replace my tubes all the time.


----------



## RCBinTN

SilverEars said:


> What got me was that BHA-1 was paired with Ayre Codex(which to me sounds identical to Gumby).  Which I think is FPGA based DAC. They had the Utopia for me to try, and I was impressed.
> 
> I would try SE and low gain if the headphone is on the sensitive side.  BHA-1 does have a lot gain even in low gain sigle ended.
> 
> I think Gumby balanced output with high gain balanced, there so much power to drive difficult headphones I think.  It seems more powerful than the GSX MK2 balanced even.  I was at the same volume level with somebody driving headphones out of Mcintosh speaker amp tabs with the same headphone, HEK.  Perhaps they under rate or rate true power capability(in their specs, they are specific about power delivered to varieties of loads)  I got a feeling BHA-1 in high gain, balanced input/output would drive a HE6 pretty good.  It is the more stronger amps I've tried.


I agree, the BHA-1 certainly has plenty of power.
Annette and I listen together with our HD800 (BHA-1 has dual balanced HP connections) and the amp has no trouble at all.

I was very pleased when I first heard the LCD-4 on my GMB/BHA-1 rig, at a headphone meet.
The LCD-4 scale very well with more power.
That experience convinced me to sell my LCD-X and jump to the LCD-4. End game, for me.

The BHA-1 has quite a bit more punch than did my previous HP amplifier, the Sennheiser HDVA600.

Cheers!
RCB


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 27, 2018)

hikaru12 said:


> Yeah I think that's the problem - my particular dealer prefers DACs that are Sigma Delta and actually scoff at the idea of using 'outdated' R2R DAC technology - probably because they've never heard it implemented well. It kind of sucks because it gives me a bad impression of what the amp actually sounds like but I still got the impression that it gets out of the way. Even with high impedance headphones I don't feel the need to go to high gain because balanced outputs are pretty powerful as is.
> 
> I haven't decided if I absolutely need it yet because my source is doing some pre-amping so my tube amp volume levels are perfectly appreciable but some tubes actually have pretty low gain and I don't want to spend an arm and a leg having to replace my tubes all the time.


I think these dealers are more familiar with what's out there for speakers, and those DACs are hooked up to speaker setups probably.  I haven't found a dealer that carries Schiit stuff(and niche brands that headphone website discuss like Holo Spring, Audio GD, Mytrum, etc..).  Chord stuff, yes, because the brand is known in the speakers world.  Sennheiser, Focal, Audeze are around, but Hifiman, specifically Susvara is a hard find.  Also, iems are not existant for demo either.  Only a local headphone enthusiast that works for a dealer nearby got MrSpeakers headphones, Noble, JHA, Chord Hugo 2.  I was lucky to find(and try out) a Chord DAVE at a speaker system shop, and they had it hooked up in a speaker system.


----------



## hikaru12 (Apr 27, 2018)

SilverEars said:


> I was lucky to find(and try out) a Chord DAVE at a speaker system shop, and they had it hooked up in a speaker system.



It's funny you should say that because my dealer had this same setup as well. He had them hooked up to some LaScalas. I've only seen some stuff like Audio Alchemy, etc. for DACs. I actually really enjoyed the Dave's clarity and dynamism with speakers but really hated it for headphone use even with amping it with something else. It just sounded way too forward and aggressively in my face while I prefer a more laid back sound.

I almost feel like bringing my Gumby in there to test but unfortunately due to the design I would need to keep it turned on to sound it's best so I kind of have to suspend some of what I'm hearing to really understand the sound. I was even thinking of getting one of their Bryston Raspberry Pi transports but I don't feel like it would justify spending more than the Gumby in price to get a tiny incremental upgrade in clarity, etc.


----------



## RCBinTN

I've heard a description of the DAVE compared to the Yggy A2 by a trusted Head-Fier. He thinks they sound similar.
The GMB has a warmer sound than the Yggy A1 (I haven't heard the A2 yet), so less in-your-face.
But net, the BHA-1 may not be the amp for you. It is sort of "in your face" like all SS amps are. Just a thought.

If your dealer isn't too far away, you could still bring your GMB and let it warm back up at the dealer. Wrap it up in a blanket.
It's just risky to make an investment like the BHA-1 while having these doubts...


----------



## hikaru12

RCBinTN said:


> I've heard a description of the DAVE compared to the Yggy A2 by a trusted Head-Fier. He thinks they sound similar.
> The GMB has a warmer sound than the Yggy A1 (I haven't heard the A2 yet), so less in-your-face.
> But net, the BHA-1 may not be the amp for you. It is sort of "in your face" like all SS amps are. Just a thought.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your impressions - as long as I'm conservative w/ the volume it shouldn't be too bad but ultimately listening to it will give me the best impression. It'll be nice to see if my impressions match with yours since you prefer SS. I think the more amps that can be tested w/ the Gumby the better for newcomers to get an idea if they'll like it or not.


----------



## RCBinTN

You bet - my pleasure! It's how I made my journey - by asking questions and going to meets.

Here's another thought - I hear a lot of good comments about the GMB + Schiit Mjolnir2 amp.
The Mj2 has both vacuum tube or SS tube options, so you could tune it to your liking.

There are probably folks on this thread who have the GMB and Mjolnor2 paired together - anybody out there have advice for hikaru12?


----------



## Dr.J

As I continue to contemplate purchasing a Gumby, I’m wondering if there are any ideally matching CD transports? At some point, I’m thinking there’s a very real possibility of the CD player besting a Gumby/transport combo and so I’m wondering what people are using?


----------



## hikaru12

Dr.J said:


> As I continue to contemplate purchasing a Gumby, I’m wondering if there are any ideally matching CD transports? At some point, I’m thinking there’s a very real possibility of the CD player besting a Gumby/transport combo and so I’m wondering what people are using?



Depends on what you mean by better. A CD transport will only better send the data to your DAC. That being said. I prefer optical its very hard to implement good USB and you really do need to spend good money on a USB cable to get the most out of it and it was never really meant solely for use with audio while Optical and SPDIF were.

A good transport will increase clarity in the highs, give more a full body and tighten up the bass. Some will focus on one or the other. Depends on what youre trying to look to improve in your system. For me, i want a cohesive sound throughout my system which is smooth and detailed so I focus on a full body sound and a detailed but smooth treble. Glass optical has my preferred method for this to the Gumby.


----------



## artur9

Dr.J said:


> As I continue to contemplate purchasing a Gumby, I’m wondering if there are any ideally matching CD transports? At some point, I’m thinking there’s a very real possibility of the CD player besting a Gumby/transport combo and so I’m wondering what people are using?



I tried a regular Panasonic blu ray player through coax into my system (as suggested by @Baldr) and it bested the SMS-200 / µ-link USB->SPDIF converter with linear PS.  That's what made me eliminate USB from my system.  So I am now of the opinion that even an average transport is better that most USB.

Currently i use a BDP-1 via AES into my preamp then coax into Gumby.  CDs are too inconvenient for frequent use but occasionally.


----------



## RCBinTN

My music server is a Macbook Pro with JRiver.
I, too, was using a glass optical cable to feed the GMB. It's an AQ Diamond toslink - the SQ was good.
But, with the advent of the Gen 5 USB, I have switched back to using a USB cable.
Tested them back-to-back and the USB with Gen 5 bested the optical SQ by a small margin.
The Gen 5 really did solve the USB instability issues, as Mike and Jason wrote. It's very stable...


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 30, 2018)

hikaru12 said:


> It's funny you should say that because my dealer had this same setup as well. He had them hooked up to some LaScalas. I've only seen some stuff like Audio Alchemy, etc. for DACs. I actually really enjoyed the Dave's clarity and dynamism with speakers but really hated it for headphone use even with amping it with something else. It just sounded way too forward and aggressively in my face while I prefer a more laid back sound.
> 
> I almost feel like bringing my Gumby in there to test but unfortunately due to the design I would need to keep it turned on to sound it's best so I kind of have to suspend some of what I'm hearing to really understand the sound. I was even thinking of getting one of their Bryston Raspberry Pi transports but I don't feel like it would justify spending more than the Gumby in price to get a tiny incremental upgrade in clarity, etc.


With the Utopia, tonality works rather well.  I think the headphone out works well with Utopia since, Utopia doesn't demand much power and Dave's narrow tonality doesn't provide much volume to the sound, but also, the sibilant sounds are really thin sounding, so it's not sibilance with a lot of volume, not being intrusive(which Utopia can get).  At least with DAVE and Mojo, Chord stuff seems to have certain way of presenting sibilance, not in a thick way(which sums to higher in quantity, and therefore more intrusive), but thin and light in texture(being a bit faint sounding due to this).  This actually doesn't work for all headphones, particularly the HEK.  Didn't sound right with HEK.

Also, the rediculous price is of course the obvious turn-off.  I think Chord stuff are marketed higher than it should be worth IMO.


----------



## luckybaer

acguitar84 said:


> I'll look forward to reading your comparisons (of gumby) to mimby!


That should be fun.

Decided to stop messing around and pony'd up for an AURALiC Taurus MkII headphone amp to pair with Gumby.  That should be it for me for a long, long time.  The Taurus arrives in a couple of days - if I leave Gumby on until it arrives, it will have been running and feeding my Magni 3 for 48+ hours.  Should be fun times ahead.


----------



## RCBinTN

luckybaer said:


> That should be fun.
> 
> Decided to stop messing around and pony'd up for an AURALiC Taurus MkII headphone amp to pair with Gumby.  That should be it for me for a long, long time.  The Taurus arrives in a couple of days - if I leave Gumby on until it arrives, it will have been running and feeding my Magni 3 for 48+ hours.  Should be fun times ahead.


Fun times indeed! It's so cool to acquire new gear, especially a high-end amplifier like the MkII. Hope you love the sound!

Happy Listening,
RCB

ps. You may need a bit more time on that GMB to fully open up the sound. Listen to music, as it breaks in...that's what I did. You will hear the SQ change


----------



## Audiofiend1

So i got a bit of an issue i travel internationally sometimes, (twice a year) i have the Gumby + Mjolnir 2, is there a bag or travel case that could safety and comfortably fit both of them in? I am scared to put them both in my checked in luggage out of fear they roughly handle the case. I would like to take it as carry on luggage on the plane with me. Maybe someone here knows of a good bag?


----------



## Globox

How about a pelican case ? Ask them if they have the right size for your stuff !?


----------



## Audiofiend1

Globox said:


> How about a pelican case ? Ask them if they have the right size for your stuff !?


Great idea! Currently looking at the 1535 Air Pelican Case. Gonna keep looking


----------



## RCBinTN

I use a Pelican case to transport my mobile rig...AK240 / Oppo HA-2. Works great.


----------



## koover

Audiofiend1 said:


> So i got a bit of an issue i travel internationally sometimes, (twice a year) i have the Gumby + Mjolnir 2, is there a bag or travel case that could safety and comfortably fit both of them in? I am scared to put them both in my checked in luggage out of fear they roughly handle the case. I would like to take it as carry on luggage on the plane with me. Maybe someone here knows of a good bag?


Wow, you have guts. There's no way I'd travel with these for personal use unless I would be stationed somewhere for months on end. They're pretty large and bulky. Why not just get a nice portable unit while you travel and not risk damaging these beautiful pieces of "home" equipment.


----------



## Audiofiend1

koover said:


> Wow, you have guts. There's no way I'd travel with these for personal use unless I would be stationed somewhere for months on end. They're pretty large and bulky. Why not just get a nice portable unit while you travel and not risk damaging these beautiful pieces of "home" equipment.



I know it's a risk i'm not happy about doing it at all. Thing is i'm going to be out of the country for 3 months and that's a long time to not have my gear. Especially considering the other amp dac i have is an 02 which is pretty much a joke in comparison. I'm just going to bubble wrap it and put it in a pelican case or large back pack and always keep it with me.


----------



## koover

I might do that too if it's 3 months but be careful man. I believe you posses more of a certain part of the male anatomy then I do.


----------



## Audiofiend1

koover said:


> I might do that too if it's 3 months but be careful man. I believe you posses more of a certain part of the male anatomy then I do.


Haha thank you for the wishes, the only scary parts is the security checkpoint at the airport and of course putting my bag in the overhead compartment in the plane aisle but i will be extraordinary, extremely aware.

The crazy things we do to chase audio nirvana...


----------



## Eldair

I ordered Gumby 4th May in schiit-europe and it sayd then they will delivered it in 7th may. Well nothing happened today. Let´s see how long i have to wait. Can´t wait to get it in my hands.


----------



## earChasm

Eldair said:


> I ordered Gumby 4th May in schiit-europe and it sayd then they will delivered it in 7th may. Well nothing happened today. Let´s see how long i have to wait. Can´t wait to get it in my hands.


Yh the waiting game :.)
Did you create an account on the Schiit website? It will tell you the status of the order. If i remember correctly I had to wait 10 days but it felt forever ahahaha. I hope u r as happy with it as most of us!


----------



## Eldair

Yep i have account and there i follow the order. I really hope Gumby is so good you guys have told


----------



## Charente

Eldair said:


> Yep i have account and there i follow the order. I really hope Gumby is so good you guys have told



It will be a great partner for your Mjolnir 2 !


----------



## koover

Eldair said:


> Yep i have account and there i follow the order. I really hope Gumby is so good you guys have told


It will be 
I have the same set up and upgraded both pieces of gear at the same time coming from a LYR2 ( which I REALLY liked) and Mimby. The quality of the Gumby raises the bar and to me at least, it was dramatic. The Gumby alone played the biggest part in the overall sublimeness. 
I never really believed it in the past as much as I do now, how much improvement the DAC plays in your overall sound signature and it’s quality. You’re now going to enjoy smooth, musical organic music to your ears. Seriously looking forward to your thoughts but give it plenty of time to (my own word) thermalate and always leave it on. 
Enjoy bro!


----------



## earChasm

koover said:


> You’re now going to enjoy smooth, musical organic music to your ears. Seriously looking forward to your thoughts...


+1


----------



## Eldair

Well i have to say right out of box this is amazing. Sound have more body allround, slam and i don´t know the word but detail. This is another planet after Lead Audio LA-100.


----------



## RCBinTN

Eldair said:


> Well i have to say right out of box this is amazing. Sound have more body allround, slam and i don´t know the word but detail. This is another planet after Lead Audio LA-100.


Nice rig! Welcome to the GMB team. How do you like the Sennheiser HD660S?


----------



## Eldair

I tried few phones like Hifiman Edition X v2, Focal Elear to mention some but hd660s was best for music what i listen. I like progressive stuff metal/heavy/rock mostly. Guitars are beautiful and still crunchy, bass is fast as it should but could extend bit more lower register. Mids are best part. so meaty and just whats the word, take you to another place and you just float. Treble is soft but still got some bite when it is needed.
Haha i´m so bad to describe phones. Also cause english ain´t my native language makes it difficult.


----------



## RCBinTN

Eldair said:


> I tried few phones like Hifiman Edition X v2, Focal Elear to mention some but hd660s was best for music what i listen. I like progressive stuff metal/heavy/rock mostly. Guitars are beautiful and still crunchy, bass is fast as it should but could extend bit more lower register. Mids are best part. so meaty and just whats the word, take you to another place and you just float. Treble is soft but still got some bite when it is needed.
> Haha i´m so bad to describe phones. Also cause english ain´t my native language makes it difficult.


Great -- thanks for the information. No need to be sorry about your english...I clearly got the message.
I asked because I'm thinking about buying the HD660S for my brother. He needs new headphones!
All the Best!
RCB


----------



## tcellguy

I'm still struggling with which DAC to get. I have been thinking of getting a Gumby, but I've never heard a multibit DAC and not sure if I'll like the sound. Also I'm still somewhat nervous about descriptions I've read in places where people think that all DACs sound the same above a certain level. My ultimate plan would be to run balanced with the Jotunheim. 

From reading the forums I get the sense that many people think the Mimby is nearly identical in sound to the Bimby other than the USB gen5 and better power supply offering a quieter background. I have an iUSB 3.0 nano, but I'm not sure if that = gen5 USB. 

My current thought is to try the Mimby first and see if I like/notice a difference with the multibit vs. delta sigma. Do you think I should be able to notice a difference with the Mimby vs. the Jotunheim DS DAC or iDSD BL?


----------



## luckybaer

tcellguy said:


> I'm still struggling with which DAC to get. I have been thinking of getting a Gumby, but I've never heard a multibit DAC and not sure if I'll like the sound. Also I'm still somewhat nervous about descriptions I've read in places where people think that all DACs sound the same above a certain level. My ultimate plan would be to run balanced with the Jotunheim.
> 
> From reading the forums I get the sense that many people think the Mimby is nearly identical in sound to the Bimby other than the USB gen5 and better power supply offering a quieter background. I have an iUSB 3.0 nano, but I'm not sure if that = gen5 USB.
> 
> My current thought is to try the Mimby first and see if I like/notice a difference with the multibit vs. delta sigma. Do you think I should be able to notice a difference with the Mimby vs. the Jotunheim DS DAC or iDSD BL?


I have Mimby fed by Eitr.  I have Gumby Gen 5.  Gumby is a significant improvement over Mimby. More bass slam.  Better microdynamics.  More resolving (Mimby is really good, but Gumby is a much sharper sounding DAC - while remaining non-fatiguing to my ears).  If doing so doesn't make you do something financially foolish, don't fiddle around.  Get the Gumby and don't look back.


----------



## Audiofiend1

tcellguy said:


> I'm still struggling with which DAC to get. I have been thinking of getting a Gumby, but I've never heard a multibit DAC and not sure if I'll like the sound. Also I'm still somewhat nervous about descriptions I've read in places where people think that all DACs sound the same above a certain level. My ultimate plan would be to run balanced with the Jotunheim.
> 
> From reading the forums I get the sense that many people think the Mimby is nearly identical in sound to the Bimby other than the USB gen5 and better power supply offering a quieter background. I have an iUSB 3.0 nano, but I'm not sure if that = gen5 USB.
> 
> My current thought is to try the Mimby first and see if I like/notice a difference with the multibit vs. delta sigma. Do you think I should be able to notice a difference with the Mimby vs. the Jotunheim DS DAC or iDSD BL?


You will not be disappointed with the Gumby Multibit. I have compared it to several other cheaper Dacs and i can positively tell you the sound is MUCH fuller!


----------



## earChasm

tcellguy said:


> I'm still struggling with which DAC to get. I have been thinking of getting a Gumby, but I've never heard a multibit DAC and not sure if I'll like the sound. Also I'm still somewhat nervous about descriptions I've read in places where people think that all DACs sound the same above a certain level. My ultimate plan would be to run balanced with the Jotunheim.
> 
> From reading the forums I get the sense that many people think the Mimby is nearly identical in sound to the Bimby other than the USB gen5 and better power supply offering a quieter background. I have an iUSB 3.0 nano, but I'm not sure if that = gen5 USB.
> 
> My current thought is to try the Mimby first and see if I like/notice a difference with the multibit vs. delta sigma. Do you think I should be able to notice a difference with the Mimby vs. the Jotunheim DS DAC or iDSD BL?


I understand what you are saying and it is (IMO) hard to buy gear which you can’t test at home for a longer period of time. Lucky enough, with Schiit gear you can and thats why I personally pulled the tricker for Gumby after spending 750€ on a fail which should be a clear win.

I had the Bifrost G5 and it sounded great (as in good enough for me) but with a better/different amp it fell short (synergy?). The Gumby was a perfect match for me because I have no fatique at all, a lot of goosbump moments (I really think it sounds better) and I can enjoy my HP without mods or equalizers. No money and no regrets whatsoever :.)

I’m with Luckbaer, try (get) the Gumby and don’t look back. If you are not blown away in a week, return it. If you find something better afterwards you should have no problem selling it.


----------



## RCBinTN

I had a BiFrost as my first "real" DAC, it was D/S - this was before the days of the MB upgrades for Bifrost and Gungnir.

Then, I went to Gungnir (and later GMB) because I wanted a fully-balanced system.

The Gungnir is truly hardware-balanced, a much more advanced DAC than the Mimby and Bimby.
There is a description of what "hardware-balanced" means on the Schiit web site under Gungnir.

The upgrade from Gungnir to GMB was the best $500 I've spent on this hobby...it has amazing sound for the price!

Happy Listening -
RCB


----------



## Pier Paolo

RCBinTN said:


> I had a BiFrost as my first "real" DAC, it was D/S - this was before the days of the MB upgrades for Bifrost and Gungnir.
> 
> Then, I went to Gungnir (and later GMB) because I wanted a fully-balanced system.
> 
> ...




Same story, same happiness,


----------



## Audiofiend1

I'm sure this has been covered before but now that i've had my Gumby + MJ2 for over a month i need to know. What is the consensus on leaving these units on the whole time? Is it bad/good/okay to just leave them on for days even weeks at a time? I'm just concerned because when i leave my MJ2 and Gumby for a few hours with no headphones plugged in it gets really hot so days at a time scares me a bit, thus i have been turning it on and off once a day usually turning it on and leaving it on for the rest of the day and then switching off before i go to bed. What do people think is the best for prolonging lifespan?


----------



## jcn3

Audiofiend1 said:


> I'm sure this has been covered before but now that i've had my Gumby + MJ2 for over a month i need to know. What is the consensus on leaving these units on the whole time? Is it bad/good/okay to just leave them on for days even weeks at a time? I'm just concerned because when i leave my MJ2 and Gumby for a few hours with no headphones plugged in it gets really hot so days at a time scares me a bit, thus i have been turning it on and off once a day usually turning it on and leaving it on for the rest of the day and then switching off before i go to bed. What do people think is the best for prolonging lifespan?



Gumby benefits from being left on - it leave it on 24/7 (I did this with my Gumby and do with my Yggy). I'd turn the MJ2 on and off as needed - it warms up quickly and doesn't need the thermal stabilization that the Gumby circuitry does.


----------



## Globox

Same here. Gumby is being turned off once a year when I go on vacation.
MJ2 is being turned on and off when needed as it gets really hot when using tubes.


----------



## rkw

Tubes have a limited life, and they will burn out more quickly if you leave them on all the time.

The MJ2 Owners Manual says:
_*Can I leave Mjolnir on all the time?*
You can, but we really recommend you power down the amp if you aren’t going to use it for an hour or more.
Mjolnir uses a reasonable amount of power, and runs pretty warm._​


----------



## RCBinTN

Mike recommends leaving the GMB powered on all the time. That's what I do. I turn off the (SS) amp after using the rig.
The sound is very consistent using this approach.


----------



## earChasm (May 22, 2018)

Audiofiend1 said:


> I'm sure this has been covered before but now that i've had my Gumby + MJ2 for over a month i need to know. What is the consensus on leaving these units on the whole time? Is it bad/good/okay to just leave them on for days even weeks at a time? I'm just concerned because when i leave my MJ2 and Gumby for a few hours with no headphones plugged in it gets really hot so days at a time scares me a bit, thus i have been turning it on and off once a day usually turning it on and leaving it on for the rest of the day and then switching off before i go to bed. What do people think is the best for prolonging lifespan?


* sorry, I couldn’t quit the reply function?! This post may be deleted.


----------



## RCBinTN (May 22, 2018)

earChasm said:


> * sorry, I couldn’t quit the reply function?! This post may be deleted.


I think if you select "Reply" and then change your mind, just exit the thread (or Head-Fi site) and it will clear automatically.

You can ask the moderators over here (don't be shy, I ask them questions all the time  
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-site-platform-bug-reports-and-feedback-thread.845502/page-46


----------



## earChasm

RCBinTN said:


> I think if you select "Reply" and then change your mind, just exit the thread (or Head-Fi site) and it will clear automatically.


Tried that but didn’t work (iPad) .


----------



## RCBinTN

earChasm said:


> Tried that but didn’t work (iPad) .


Hmmm. Would you mind asking the mods? Maybe it's an iPad (mobile) thing...they would probably want to fix it.


----------



## earChasm

RCBinTN said:


> Hmmm. Would you mind asking the mods? Maybe it's an iPad (mobile) thing...they would probably want to fix it.


Done, thank you for the link.


----------



## RCBinTN

earChasm said:


> Done, thank you for the link.


My pleasure!


----------



## RCBinTN

Wow @earChasm, amazing responses and solutions from the Head-Fi Team. 
Nifty and impressive!

I think they got most of the new platform issues solved, so maybe twiddling thumbs at this point


----------



## US Blues

RCBinTN said:


> Wow @earChasm, amazing responses and solutions from the Head-Fi Team.
> Nifty and impressive!
> 
> I think they got most of the new platform issues solved, so maybe twiddling thumbs at this point



Save for how long it takes the emoticons to load.


----------



## artur9

I keep my streamer and my Gumby on all the time.  After a power failure over the weekend when I was away I turned on some tunes and they sounded awful.  Took at least an hour to achieve the sound I was used to.  I guess clocks stabilizing in the DAC and streamer?


----------



## RCBinTN (May 24, 2018)

artur9 said:


> I keep my streamer and my Gumby on all the time.  After a power failure over the weekend when I was away I turned on some tunes and they sounded awful.  Took at least an hour to achieve the sound I was used to.  I guess clocks stabilizing in the DAC and streamer?


Posted on the wrong thread?
Edit - Oops, sorry...I was on the wrong thread...duh!


----------



## tcellguy (May 24, 2018)

earChasm said:


> I understand what you are saying and it is (IMO) hard to buy gear which you can’t test at home for a longer period of time. Lucky enough, with Schiit gear you can and thats why I personally pulled the tricker for Gumby after spending 750€ on a fail which should be a clear win.
> 
> I had the Bifrost G5 and it sounded great (as in good enough for me) but with a better/different amp it fell short (synergy?). The Gumby was a perfect match for me because I have no fatique at all, a lot of goosbump moments (I really think it sounds better) and I can enjoy my HP without mods or equalizers. No money and no regrets whatsoever :.)
> 
> I’m with Luckbaer, try (get) the Gumby and don’t look back. If you are not blown away in a week, return it. If you find something better afterwards you should have no problem selling it.



Thanks for the reply. I’m currently building my FLAC library but still have mostly 256 AAC. Does that factor in? Fortunately I can afford the Gungnir, but from other forum members I got the sense that updating all my music to FLAC first would be the bigger improvement. I’m not trying to start a lossy vs. lossless discussion. I’m just curious if any gains from the Gungnir would be cancelled by using 256 AAC. My experience so far has been that I’ve noticed improvement at each upgrade of DACs, AMPs, and headphones with both AAC and FLAC sounding better at each step.


----------



## earChasm

tcellguy said:


> Thanks for the reply. I’m currently building my FLAC library but still have mostly 256 AAC. Does that factor in? Fortunately I can afford the Gungnir, but from other forum members I got the sense that updating all my music to FLAC first would be the bigger improvement. I’m not trying to start a lossy vs. lossless discussion. I’m just curious if any gains from the Gungnir would be cancelled by using 256 AAC. My experience so far has been that I’ve noticed improvement at each upgrade of DACs, AMPs, and headphones with both AAC and FLAC sounding better at each step.


I never heard a 256 AAC file. So can’t comment on that but it seems to me it’s a good thing to start with. If I don’t hear a difference between MP3 or FLAC I still choose FLAC over MP3. Why not, It’s still lossless vs lossy...

Personally I played around with FLAC 44.1 - 196, DSD and MP3. In my experience all formats can sound good (not necessarly amazing) or bad. Since I couldn’t tell that DSD clearly rules them all, I decided to drop that format. I didn’t have many DSD albums anyway.
Depending Hires material, yes, some Hires albums sounded better that my FLAC rips. Could be a different master or could be anything else. Thing is, I cannot 100% write off Hires material but I prefer Redbook. That is good enough for me.


----------



## US Blues

tcellguy said:


> Thanks for the reply. I’m currently building my FLAC library but still have mostly 256 AAC. Does that factor in? Fortunately I can afford the Gungnir, but from other forum members I got the sense that updating all my music to FLAC first would be the bigger improvement. I’m not trying to start a lossy vs. lossless discussion. I’m just curious if any gains from the Gungnir would be cancelled by using 256 AAC. My experience so far has been that I’ve noticed improvement at each upgrade of DACs, AMPs, and headphones with both AAC and FLAC sounding better at each step.



Use FLAC, both Gumby and your ears will thank you later.


----------



## RCBinTN

US Blues said:


> Use FLAC, both Gumby and your ears will thank you later.


+1
Gumby is so resolving, you will clearly hear a difference between 256 AAC and 16/44.1 FLAC formats.


----------



## artur9

I think you should get the Gumby ASAP then you'll hear the improvement more clearly when you re-rip into FLAC.  That will motivate you to do the ripping faster.


----------



## Second Gear

tcellguy said:


> Thanks for the reply. I’m currently building my FLAC library but still have mostly 256 AAC. Does that factor in? Fortunately I can afford the Gungnir, but from other forum members I got the sense that updating all my music to FLAC first would be the bigger improvement. I’m not trying to start a lossy vs. lossless discussion. I’m just curious if any gains from the Gungnir would be cancelled by using 256 AAC. My experience so far has been that I’ve noticed improvement at each upgrade of DACs, AMPs, and headphones with both AAC and FLAC sounding better at each step.



Your ears will be the final judge, but the resolving capability of the Gumby is a step in the direction of helping you appreciate the differences between your 256 AAC and FLAC files. If it doesn't do enough for you to justify the cost, there is always the option to return it. I land in the camp of trying it sooner than later.


----------



## abvolt

Hello all I'm just about to order a new Gumby and was wondering what the preferred input is USB or SPDIF, The reason I ask is some reviewers say it's best sound the Gumby is with SPDIF, I've never used that input I don't know, Thanks for any info..


----------



## Ken G

I’ve only tried it a few times but haven’t noticed much of a difference between it and the USB which is what I mostly use. I have the delta-sigma version (for now) and I run it to a Liquid Carbon X to drive a Focal Elear (considering  an upgrade to the Clear)


----------



## rkw

abvolt said:


> Hello all I'm just about to order a new Gumby and was wondering what the preferred input is USB or SPDIF, The reason I ask is some reviewers say it's best sound the Gumby is with SPDIF, I've never used that input I don't know, Thanks for any info..


What is your music source? If it's a laptop or computer then you'll be using USB unless you take extra effort and cost to get SPDIF out of it.


----------



## Ken G

rkw said:


> What is your music source? If it's a laptop or computer then you'll be using USB unless you take extra effort and cost to get SPDIF out of it.



Not necessarily. Pre-2016 Macs had an audio out that doubles as a SPDIF out - all you need is a 3.5 mm adapter. That’s what I sometimes use on my iMac.


----------



## rkw

Ken G said:


> Pre-2016 Macs had an audio out that doubles as a SPDIF out - all you need is a 3.5 mm adapter.


Is that optical SPDIF (Toslink)? The consensus seems to be that Gen5 USB performs better than optical, but prior to Gen5 optical was better than USB.


----------



## Ken G

Yes.  The pre-2016 Macs allow a Toslink connection. I have the Gungnir with the older USB and haven’t noticed that much of a difference however i can’t say I’ve actively compared and have only used the toslink connection to the Gung a few times. I’ll start using it again this week and report back any differences.


----------



## earChasm

abvolt said:


> Hello all I'm just about to order a new Gumby and was wondering what the preferred input is USB or SPDIF, The reason I ask is some reviewers say it's best sound the Gumby is with SPDIF, I've never used that input I don't know, Thanks for any info..


Personal preference:

1 coax
2 optical
3 USB

USB sounds good but has less bass and air IMO. The difference is not huge but noticable after listening for hours and then switching using the same playlist. Using the iPurifer 2 from iFi didn’t help.


----------



## RCBinTN

earChasm said:


> Personal preference:
> 
> 1 coax
> 2 optical
> ...


Right - that is the same preference sequence that Mike recommends.

I, too, have a pre-2016 Macbook Pro, so have both optical and USB direct-connect options.

I started using the USB, pre-Gen5, but had drop-out issues. Too unstable...at times the music would stop and JRiver would lock up.
So, changed to optical - toslink direct from Mac to GMB. Totally stable and the sound was good.

Then, upgraded GMB to Gen5 USB. That's my preferred connection now.
It is uber-stable and, to my ears, sounds a bit better than optical.
The Gen5 USB is certainly the real deal...it works.

As always, FWIW and YMMV.
RCB

ps. You will love the sound of the GMB with your other nice equipment, @abvolt!


----------



## Don Quichotte

I have found the Gumby with BNC SPDIF cheap diy cable out of the D300 Cambridge CD player as a transport as better sounding (clearer, more detailed) than with USB Gen5 out of a cheap PC (Foobar, Wasapi) using a cheap short USB cable. I'm pretty sure the BNC SPDIF is the most promising interface.


----------



## RCBinTN

Yeah, out of a CD player the BNC would be the way to go, for sure...just ask Mike.


----------



## earChasm

RCBinTN said:


> Yeah, out of a CD player the BNC would be the way to go, for sure...just ask Mike.


I did just that and Mike Tyson told me to fckoff...
Actually, he said beat it, beat it, no one wants to be defeated...


----------



## RCBinTN

earChasm said:


> I did just that and Mike Tyson told me to fckoff...
> Actually, he said beat it, beat it, no one wants to be defeated...


Sorry, I was referring to Mike Moffat of Schiit Audio.


----------



## luckybaer

Not because it sounds better, but only because I needed to... I went coax from my CD player to BNC on the Gumby.  Thrills galore!


----------



## abvolt

Thanks for all your answers I don't have coax and did notice the new Gumby does come with Gen 5 usb that's what I use thanks again all..enjoy


----------



## RCBinTN

abvolt said:


> Thanks for all your answers I don't have coax and did notice the new Gumby does come with Gen 5 usb that's what I use thanks again all..enjoy


Please come back and tell us what you think about your GMB...
Happy Listening!
RCB


----------



## Loquah

Don Quichotte said:


> I have found the Gumby with BNC SPDIF cheap diy cable out of the D300 Cambridge CD player as a transport as better sounding (clearer, more detailed) than with USB Gen5 out of a cheap PC (Foobar, Wasapi) using a cheap short USB cable. I'm pretty sure the BNC SPDIF is the most promising interface.



I agree. I did a lot of comparisons a while ago and found that the Coax was vastly superior to pre-Gen 5 USB, but the difference is much closer now. Coax is still marginally better, but it's close enough that I've dropped back to using USB for the sake of convenience for computer audio.


----------



## jrflanne

tcellguy said:


> Thanks for the reply. I’m currently building my FLAC library but still have mostly 256 AAC. Does that factor in? Fortunately I can afford the Gungnir, but from other forum members I got the sense that updating all my music to FLAC first would be the bigger improvement. I’m not trying to start a lossy vs. lossless discussion. I’m just curious if any gains from the Gungnir would be cancelled by using 256 AAC. My experience so far has been that I’ve noticed improvement at each upgrade of DACs, AMPs, and headphones with both AAC and FLAC sounding better at each step.


I have a bunch of iTunes downloads in my library. The Gumby works great with those. I suspect the combo burrito filter has a lot to do with that. So, buy the Gungnir, listen to your AAC’s, and get rippin.


----------



## gordec

I'm interested in getting an used Gumby on classifieds. Is there a significant difference between the different USB generations?


----------



## luckybaer

gordec said:


> I'm interested in getting an used Gumby on classifieds. Is there a significant difference between the different USB generations?


Gen5 is what you want to get if you want well-implemented USB.

Per Schiit:

*Gen 5 USB: USB, Solved*
_Forget decrapifiers, regenerators, isolators, and all the USB dongles and boxes you’ve been told you need for USB sound. Our all-new Gen 5 USB input doesn’t require any of that stuff. It’s this simple: Gen 5 is USB, solved. Now standard on all our upgradable DACs, Gen 5 USB features full galvanic isolation via transformers, self-power for low noise and latching, and high-quality local clocking for both 44.1 and 48k multiples._


----------



## Second Gear

gordec said:


> I'm interested in getting an used Gumby on classifieds. Is there a significant difference between the different USB generations?



I had an opportunity to compare Gen 2 vs. Gen 5 Gumby's via a Ragnarok + HD600 for about a day. It was casual. Everything at polite volume with some of my newer favorite blues and jazz tracks. 

IME, I did not hear a significant difference or maybe any difference. The source was a 2014 rMBP 15 running Roon and connected to the DAC with a Schiit cable.


----------



## gordec

Second Gear said:


> I had an opportunity to compare Gen 2 vs. Gen 5 Gumby's via a Ragnarok + HD600 for about a day. It was casual. Everything at polite volume with some of my newer favorite blues and jazz tracks.
> 
> IME, I did not hear a significant difference or maybe any difference. The source was a 2014 rMBP 15 running Roon and connected to the DAC with a Schiit cable.



Thanks.  Good to know. I guess don't need to be too picky as long as price is right.


----------



## Globox

gordec said:


> Thanks.  Good to know. I guess don't need to be too picky as long as price is right.


I think that it... Depends...
Lets say that you have a great USB output on your computer. It wont change anything.
Let's say that you have a crappy USB output on your computer. It will make a great change. You won't have any noise anymore.


----------



## wgallupe

gordec said:


> Thanks.  Good to know. I guess don't need to be too picky as *long as price is right*.



Getting a good price on a used unit is hard to do. They all seem to sell for 85-90% of a new unit. That differential is not enough for me personally. Especially when you don't get a warranty with the used unit.


----------



## Audiofiend1

Well i have a bit of a horror story here goes...(it does have a happy ending though).

A few days ago i was travelling intentionally out of San Francisco, i was going abroad for quite a few months and so, i decided i wanted to take my Gumby multi + MJ2 with me. I packed them both into a pelican case with foam perfectly cut out to match their dimensions. There is absolutely no play in the case for them to move around, the fit is perfect and i felt that the case was doing a good job of protecting these items. I showed up at the airport and the airline informed me in no uncertain terms that their policy had changed and i was not allowed to take an extra carry on item as i had done many times before.

With my plane taking off in 2 hours i was faced with a choice, either miss my flight or check in my pelican case containing my Gumby multi + MJ2 as check in luggage. All i could think about were the horror stories of cases being thrown around and roughly handled, furthermore i was scared that someone might steal my pelican case. I argued with the airline check-in lady that how was i to know that their policy had changed as i make this flight several times a year sometimes. They agreed to check my bag through as priority business with the highest clearance for no extra charge and so i agreed. 

Ten minutes later i was still not happy and ran back to the desk and asked the lady if there was anything else we could do, as i stressed the contents of the case were extremely fragile and i was petrified to say the least. She said she would see what else she could do and on my way i went. 

When i arrived at my final destination i went to the luggage carousel (ran is more like it) and was among the first to see the first set of cases coming out. What i saw shocked me as cases were being thrown more then 6 feet and landing on the carousal quite hard After roughly an hour of waiting to see my pelican case rudely thrown onto the carousal and watching people pickup their bags i was beginning to think my pelican case had been stolen. 15 minutes later the last person picked up their bag and the carousal closed, great i thought close to $3k in equipment stolen. 

Just as i was about to walk away a lady approached me and asked me if a pelican case was mine. She walked me over to another area and there was my case. She explained it had been carefully checked through as it was classified as fragile and so was not placed with the other check in luggage. There was also a big fragile sticker on the case so i was extremely happy that the check in lady back in San Francisco had actually listened to me and helped me out even though she was under no obligation to do so.

My case had zero scratches on it and both my Gumby multi and MJ2 have never been in better condition. Still i learnt a lesson how dangerous transporting high end pieces of home equipment across the world can be and i won't be doing this again. So now i am looking to see if i can buy an amp/dac combo that is transportable but it needs to be comparable to my Gumby mulit + MJ2 combo, any suggestions would be appreciated.


----------



## Globox

Hi Audiofiend1, it wont be nearly as good, but it will be a lot easier to carry and definitly worth every penny : Fostex HP A4(or HP A4BL if you run balanced headphone).
BTW, which pelican case did you buy ? I might be interested !
Thanks !


----------



## Ojisan

Audiofiend1 said:


> Well i have a bit of a horror story here goes...(it does have a happy ending though).
> 
> A few days ago i was travelling intentionally out of San Francisco, i was going abroad for quite a few months and so, i decided i wanted to take my Gumby multi + MJ2 with me. I packed them both into a pelican case with foam perfectly cut out to match their dimensions. There is absolutely no play in the case for them to move around, the fit is perfect and i felt that the case was doing a good job of protecting these items. I showed up at the airport and the airline informed me in no uncertain terms that their policy had changed and i was not allowed to take an extra carry on item as i had done many times before.
> 
> ...



Wow lucky you! I was curious if you were actually going to travel with the pelican case. Glad everything was safe. 

I used to do 100k+ miles of flight a year, all over the world, and I had times when I needed to carry small to very large pelican case with much more expensive equipment. The airport/airline has basically stopped using "fragile" luggage classification and it has become something that is honored only by employees who care. No guarantee that it will not be mishandled. I don't take that risk anymore and neither does our company. 

As much as I would love to have all my gear when I'm on the road, I now travel with Focal headphone only (hand carry) which sound decent out of my laptop. If I want to stretch it (and 115V can be managed), I would consider bringing my Jot (or Lyr3 if you prefer tubes) with DAC module. I'd be curious too if anyone knows smaller package that approach Gumby+MJ2 combo. 

Safe travels!


----------



## Audiofiend1

Ojisan said:


> Wow lucky you! I was curious if you were actually going to travel with the pelican case. Glad everything was safe.
> 
> I used to do 100k+ miles of flight a year, all over the world, and I had times when I needed to carry small to very large pelican case with much more expensive equipment. The airport/airline has basically stopped using "fragile" luggage classification and it has become something that is honored only by employees who care. No guarantee that it will not be mishandled. I don't take that risk anymore and neither does our company.
> 
> ...


Yup i was crazy enough to go through with it!  I think you are 100% spot on because i do not think that the airline i flew offers any kind of fragile service handling for cases, so i think it was completely at the discretion of the air hostess that felt pity for me. I really shudder to think what could of happened if it had been checked through normally. 

I was considering the Jot with the multi upgrade but i do not know how good it is/comparable to the Gumby multi + MJ2 ? 

@Globox Hey! I just looked up the Fostex HP A4BL it looks like an interesting combo. Any idea how it stacks up to say a Jot?  

As far as the pelican case goes, i settled on a 1535 Air edition. When i say that it is a perfect fit, it is literally a PERFECT fit as if it were built for this combo. There is not a single millimeter of space extra for the MJ2 + Gumby, It only  moves a teenie bit within the foam. I could move the case violently up and down and the Gumby +MJ2 would not move it feels very secure and it was easy to cut the foam to match the exact dimensions,

i even removed foam bits at the back for the plug end that stick out to make sure that it fit even better so my foam cutout is a bit of an odd shape but it works 100%. If i even need to move it again somewhere i don't think there is a better case out there, however airline check in is something i won't do twice no matter what case it is in.


----------



## Globox

I don't know the HP A4BL, But I have an HP A4, which is not as good as the BL.
I don't know the jot ether. But, let say that my combo Gumby + MJ2 is not a lot better than my HP A4 with an LCD-X.


----------



## Ken G (Jun 4, 2018)

wgallupe said:


> Getting a good price on a used unit is hard to do. They all seem to sell for 85-90% of a new unit. That differential is not enough for me personally. Especially when you don't get a warranty with the used unit.



You should sporadically check out the Schiit B-Stock/Closeout listing that they've been updating on a regular basis with new gear. Currently no Gungnir listed but I was able to grab a non-multbit (usb-gen 2, I think) for $600 about a month ago.  They seem to add new stock weekly.
And the 5 year warranty applies.

http://www.schiit.com/b-stocks


----------



## Audiofiend1 (Jun 4, 2018)

whoops excuse my double post, my power cut right when i posted my first one


----------



## Ojisan

Audiofiend1 said:


> Yup i was crazy enough to go through with it!  I think you are 100% spot on because i do not think that the airline i flew offers any kind of fragile service handling for cases, so i think it was completely at the discretion of the air hostess that felt pity for me. I really shudder to think what could of happened if it had been checked through normally.
> 
> I was considering the Jot with the multi upgrade but i do not know how good it is/comparable to the Gumby multi + MJ2 ?
> 
> ...



What headphone are you trying to drive? That might help people chime in on suggestions.


----------



## Audiofiend1

Ojisan said:


> What headphone are you trying to drive? That might help people chime in on suggestions.


It would need to drive an HD800s and a LCD 2. i would be willing to spend up to around $1k on a decent amp/dac combo that would obviously need to be portable. The Jot looks to be okay but i'm sure there is better?


----------



## Ojisan

Audiofiend1 said:


> It would need to drive an HD800s and a LCD 2. i would be willing to spend up to around $1k on a decent amp/dac combo that would obviously need to be portable. The Jot looks to be okay but i'm sure there is better?



Ok, I can't speak for LCD2 but I do use HD600/800. I have used Jot (with AKM DAC) for 2 years before I upgraded to GMB and then Yggy for DAC and GSX mk2 for amp. I do believe that Jot is a capable amp to drive HD800 (and I assume HD800s) and it gives you the balanced connection option. Compared to GMB and tube amp, I think the Jot does tilt towards more clinical, flat, less bass weight, and flatter soundstage (less spacious). Small step down in my opinion but you might perceive differently. 

I haven't had a chance to try the MB DAC module for Jot. Maybe it closes the gap. I think Jot is worth a try unless there are other features that stand out with other one-box solutions. I'd be curious to see if there is a DAC+amp combo with the power and resolve of Jot that gets you to few percentile of GMB's performance.


----------



## artur9

If you're buying a used Gungnir then the warranty is not transferrable.  OTOH, if it has the older USB and you upgrade it to Gen5 then you get a fresh 2y warranty, IIRC.  That's worth considering.

Ditto if you upgrade from Gungnir DS to Gumby.


----------



## tcellguy

Audiofiend1 said:


> Well i have a bit of a horror story here goes...(it does have a happy ending though).
> 
> A few days ago i was travelling intentionally out of San Francisco, i was going abroad for quite a few months and so, i decided i wanted to take my Gumby multi + MJ2 with me. I packed them both into a pelican case with foam perfectly cut out to match their dimensions. There is absolutely no play in the case for them to move around, the fit is perfect and i felt that the case was doing a good job of protecting these items. I showed up at the airport and the airline informed me in no uncertain terms that their policy had changed and i was not allowed to take an extra carry on item as i had done many times before.
> 
> ...



For a great portable / transportable option I’d suggest the IFI iDSD micro black label. Apparently the top 6 bits are multibit, although it’s unclear if it’s a true R2R implementation. 

Haven’t had the chance to listen to the Gungnir / MJ yet. I can say that the iDSD BL is close to my Jotunheim as far as the AMP section and the iDSD DAC sounds better to me than the DS balanced Jot DAC.


----------



## Audiofiend1

tcellguy said:


> For a great portable / transportable option I’d suggest the IFI iDSD micro black label. Apparently the top 6 bits are multibit, although it’s unclear if it’s a true R2R implementation.
> 
> Haven’t had the chance to listen to the Gungnir / MJ yet. I can say that the iDSD BL is close to my Jotunheim as far as the AMP section and the iDSD DAC sounds better to me than the DS balanced Jot DAC.


I had a good look at the IFI IDSD but the Jot still looks to be a better choice and it's just big enough that i can transport it safely. I also have a JDS labs Objective dac/amp combo. Does anyone know if the Jot will be a significant upgrade over that? I also have been looking at the Questyle CMA600I which looks quite promising but maybe a bit more then i want to spend so i'm undecided. I also don't know if the difference is that much over the Jot so many things to think about...


----------



## gordec (Jun 10, 2018)

I received my Gumby Gen 5 USB Friday and have been enjoying it. I have tried USB vs SPDIF from PC audio card. It sounds significantly cleaner from the SPDIF. The treble sounded clipped off with USB, but not with SPDIF. Also the Gumby clicks between sample rate change with USB but not with SPDIF. Is that everyone's experience? I use the Alienware R7 and have always had issues with USB audio clipping and stuttering with all kinds of DACs, and I checked all my options haven't been able to figure out why. Maybe it's something wrong with Windows 10 USB in Alienware. This only happens with lossless files. When I watch Youtube or play games etc, audio doesn't stutter. SPDIF has been much more stable. Really enjoy the sound. It's so natural and smooth. Coupled with Susvara, it feels like you are on aqua beach with a bottle of Corona. Gumby and Susvara both have super creamy midrange. The result is the best vocals I have ever heard on a headphone system rivals Sennheiser HE1.

Current system: Alienware Jriver Media Center -> Gumby -> McIntosh MHA100 -> Susvara.


----------



## SilverEars

gordec said:


> I received my Gumby Gen 5 USB Friday and have been enjoying it. I have tried USB vs SPDIF from PC audio card. It sounds significantly cleaner from the SPDIF. Also the Gumby clicks between sample rate change with USB but not with SPDIF. Is that everyone's experience? I use the Alienware R7 and have always had issues with USB audio clipping and stuttering with all kinds of DACs, and I checked all my options haven't been able to figure out why. This only happens with lossless files. When I watch Youtube or play games etc, audio doesn't stutter. SPDIF has been much more stable. Really enjoy the sound. It's so natural and smooth. Coupled with Susvara, it feels like you are on aqua beach with a bottle of Corona. Gumby and Susvara both have super creamy midrange. The result is the best vocals I have ever heard on a headphone system rivals Sennheiser HE1.
> 
> Current system: Alienware Jriver Media Center -> Gumby -> McIntosh MHA100 -> Susvara.


Let me barrow the Susvara sometime to confirm.


----------



## SilverEars

gordec said:


> I received my Gumby Gen 5 USB Friday and have been enjoying it. I have tried USB vs SPDIF from PC audio card. It sounds significantly cleaner from the SPDIF. The treble sounded clipped off with USB, but not with SPDIF. Also the Gumby clicks between sample rate change with USB but not with SPDIF. Is that everyone's experience? I use the Alienware R7 and have always had issues with USB audio clipping and stuttering with all kinds of DACs, and I checked all my options haven't been able to figure out why. Maybe it's something wrong with Windows 10 USB in Alienware. This only happens with lossless files. When I watch Youtube or play games etc, audio doesn't stutter. SPDIF has been much more stable. Really enjoy the sound. It's so natural and smooth. Coupled with Susvara, it feels like you are on aqua beach with a bottle of Corona. Gumby and Susvara both have super creamy midrange. The result is the best vocals I have ever heard on a headphone system rivals Sennheiser HE1.
> 
> Current system: Alienware Jriver Media Center -> Gumby -> McIntosh MHA100 -> Susvara.


Oh yes, and to the question.  It doesn't click when I use optical, so my guess is the clicking is a usb thing when the player is changing sampling rates.  

Looking forward to borrowing Susvara.  Thank you.


----------



## earChasm

SilverEars said:


> Oh yes, and to the question.  It doesn't click when I use optical, so my guess is the clicking is a usb thing when the player is changing sampling rates.


Nope, it also clicks with coax when changing between RB and higher .


----------



## gordec (Jun 10, 2018)

In Jriver, it says it's WASAPI. In this case, it doesn't matter what I set as the Windows system audio bitrate right (I set it to 24/192)? The problem with Gumby is that it doesn't tell you what bitrate the track is being played at.

You are right. There is a click with BR change. I just test it. It still sounds way better than USB.


----------



## SilverEars (Jun 10, 2018)

gordec said:


> In Jriver, it says it's WASAPI. In this case, it doesn't matter what I set as the Windows system audio bitrate right (I set it to 24/192)? The problem with Gumby is that it doesn't tell you what bitrate the track is being played at.


You set WASAPI in the player, and that's all it needs.  The windows bitrate setting has no relation to your player bitrate setting, they are independent of each other.  Once you set WASAPI on the source of your optical connection, the Gumby will set the bit-rate according to the stream.

You can set the player to use Gumby exclusively (this is why it's considered exclusive mode), but set windows to use another DAC (under windows sound settings), and whenever you use the player, it will come out of the Gumby, but for regular windows stuff, the other DAC.

Some players like Foobar2000 (if you have set it to WASPI), you have to stop (not pause) the music before windows can use the same DAC if you have it set in exclusive mode (since Foobar2000 was using the DAC exclusively).  With Tidal, all I have to do is pause, and I can hear Youtube clips on the browser. When you set the DAC to the player software (WASAPI, etc..), you cannot play sound simultaneously on the player and in Windows.  This is why it's exclusive to the player.


----------



## gordec

I’m so thoroughly impressed with the Gumby. I think I’m at end game with the current setup. Anything else I try is going to be GAS related issues. 

People always talk about decay and speed, but with Gumby it’s just how natural everything sounds. The percussion of instruments just decay so naturally. The combination of the Gumby with Susvara creates vocals so sweet, it is truly life-like. There is just no other way to describe it. My cheap $3 Toslink is doing a fine job. It seems like most say RCA Coaxial may be slightly better than Toslink right? I think my Alienware R7 just has crappy USB ports no matter how I tweak system settings.  I don’t get to utilize the upgraded Gen 5 USB which is kind of disappointing.


----------



## hikaru12

gordec said:


> I’m so thoroughly impressed with the Gumby. I think I’m at end game with the current setup. Anything else I try is going to be GAS related issues.
> 
> People always talk about decay and speed, but with Gumby it’s just how natural everything sounds. The percussion of instruments just decay so naturally. The combination of the Gumby with Susvara creates vocals so sweet, it is truly life-like. There is just no other way to describe it. My cheap $3 Toslink is doing a fine job. It seems like most say RCA Coaxial may be slightly better than Toslink right? I think my Alienware R7 just has crappy USB ports no matter how I tweak system settings.  I don’t get to utilize the upgraded Gen 5 USB which is kind of disappointing.



I've been wondering this myself. I got a nice glass optical cable from Wireworld but I've wondered how much I've been missing out by not going with Coaxial with this thing. Better cables do make a difference with the Gumby though! I've noticed by upgrading to better RCA cables - they just let more of the Gumby's smoothness and dynamics come out.


----------



## gordec (Jun 11, 2018)

hikaru12 said:


> I've been wondering this myself. I got a nice glass optical cable from Wireworld but I've wondered how much I've been missing out by not going with Coaxial with this thing. Better cables do make a difference with the Gumby though! I've noticed by upgrading to better RCA cables - they just let more of the Gumby's smoothness and dynamics come out.



I think I’m going to Best Buy to get a cheap Coaxial to try today. If it’s better than Toslink, I’ll buy a nicer RCA Coaxial. Also I wonder these true glass Toslink may also be an improvement.

BNC is also suppose to be a good connection right. I wonder if we can do something like this https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...RiWKCHA6UGJ9UzUItMFTON3KBfFZiHJMaAogwEALw_wcB. RCA to BNC.


----------



## Charente

gordec said:


> I think I’m going to Best Buy to get a cheap Coaxial to try today. If it’s better than Toslink, I’ll buy a nicer RCA Coaxial. Also I wonder these true glass Toslink may also be an improvement.
> 
> BNC is also suppose to be a good connection right. I wonder if we can do something like this https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...RiWKCHA6UGJ9UzUItMFTON3KBfFZiHJMaAogwEALw_wcB. RCA to BNC.



It's what I do from EITR to GMB ... recommended !


----------



## hikaru12

Charente said:


> It's what I do from EITR to GMB ... recommended !



I was thinking of that. Nordost sells a cable called the silver shadow that has BNC to RCA connectors so despite the conversion I have a feeling it would sound better. Little weary of using silver cables since they introduce treble issues and thinness but considering its just a transport I couldnt imagine it would be much worse.

What would you say are the improvements from Coaxial?


----------



## gordec

Charente said:


> It's what I do from EITR to GMB ... recommended !





hikaru12 said:


> I was thinking of that. Nordost sells a cable called the silver shadow that has BNC to RCA connectors so despite the conversion I have a feeling it would sound better. Little weary of using silver cables since they introduce treble issues and thinness but considering its just a transport I couldnt imagine it would be much worse.
> 
> What would you say are the improvements from Coaxial?



I bought a generic RCA coaxial from Best Buy. I think it sounds even better than Toslink. I have no experience with RCA cables. Any recommendations? Not sure what difference gold vs silver plated copper makes. There are also some RCA to BNC on ebay I can buy, but all international seller.


----------



## Charente

@gordec @hikaru12 ...  In my system, I personally find that I prefer S/PDIF over USB ... the sound has a quality that I like. The music seems to have more body and heft/punch (to my ears) and yet wonderfully smooth & clear with the EITR/GMB/MJ2 combination. I don't spend a fortune on cables (relatively speaking) ... I found this one (RCA/BNC) from audiophonics.fr to be suitable ... Canare cable & connectors. 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/cabl...-coaxial-cable-75-ohm-rca-bnc-1m-p-12209.html


----------



## gordec

Charente said:


> @gordec @hikaru12 ...  In my system, I personally find that I prefer S/PDIF over USB ... the sound has a quality that I like. The music seems to have more body and heft/punch (to my ears) and yet wonderfully smooth & clear with the EITR/GMB/MJ2 combination. I don't spend a fortune on cables (relatively speaking) ... I found this one (RCA/BNC) from audiophonics.fr to be suitable ... Canare cable & connectors.
> 
> https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/cabl...-coaxial-cable-75-ohm-rca-bnc-1m-p-12209.html



Totally agree with you. The RCA and Toslink are better, but I actually feel RCA is better than Toslink. That’s probably because my computer’s USB is really bad. I was looking into RCA to BNC, but couldn’t find a one I like. I just bought a Cardas RCA to RCA with Rhodium plugs. https://www.ebay.com/itm/CARDAS-Coa...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 Only reason I bought it is because I thought the plugs look cool.


----------



## tcellguy

Is there any other DAC I should be considering vs. the Gumby? I’d consider the Yggy but it seems to big for a desk and I’m in a relatively small apartment and the one month burn in time I hear about is a bit intimidating in terms of returning it within the window. 

I still haven’t had a chance to hear a multibit DAC. I’ve been considering getting a Modi Multibit / Magni for work. Would that be sufficient for me to determine if I like multibit vs. delta-sigma? 

I definitely like the idea of an R2R ladder 

Does the mimby take a full day to warm up or could I lock it in a desk when not in use (open office)?


----------



## gordec (Jun 13, 2018)

tcellguy said:


> Is there any other DAC I should be considering vs. the Gumby? I’d consider the Yggy but it seems to big for a desk and I’m in a relatively small apartment and the one month burn in time I hear about is a bit intimidating in terms of returning it within the window.
> 
> I still haven’t had a chance to hear a multibit DAC. I’ve been considering getting a Modi Multibit / Magni for work. Would that be sufficient for me to determine if I like multibit vs. delta-sigma?
> 
> ...



I bought an used Gumby. I turn it on when I get home at night then listen 1-2 hours later sounds the same as if I leave it on for 12 hours. Once warmed up initially, I don't think you need to leave it on all the time. Don't mess with delta-sigma anymore. Seriously especially for the value of Schiit dacs. I would've been perfectly happy if Gumby costed double of it's MSRP for what I'm hearing. 

That being said my ultimate reference is Sennheiser HE1 which is ESS based dac, however, it sounds even more natural and holographic than my current setup (in the sig), so I guess it's all in the implementation. I'm super happy now. I'm pretty close to the HE1 sound.


----------



## gordec (Jun 13, 2018)

Anyone seen this type of BNC before? I found a nice looking cable but the BNC connector looks different then the common ones I have seen.


----------



## RCBinTN (Jun 13, 2018)

A few general comments, my friends:

 - IMO the Gumby w/ Gen5 USB is a tremendous value at $1,250. Small enough for a desktop and great SQ.
 - Does Yggy sound better? Perhaps, but it's another $1K and a lot bigger (OK if you have an executive desk!).
 - In the past, Jason had described GMB as his favorite for HPs due to slightly "warmer" sound. The new Yggy A2 analogue may have made Yggy sound less clinical.
 - Yggy vs. GMB - you approach the point of diminishing returns. I have a GMB and love it...I'm staying right here.
 - Digital connections in order of SQ (per Mike): AES (Yggy only) > RCA/BNC > optical > USB.
 - The above list was generated prior to introduction of the Gen5 USB. I was using optical (from Macbook Pro) but, now with Gen5, I prefer USB.
 - As for cables, y'all might check out Blue Jeans cables...decent quality at a fair price.  http://www.bluejeanscable.com/
 - I am not affiliated with Blue Jeans cables!

Hope this helps!   
RCB


----------



## gordec




----------



## artur9

I'm in the process of moving.  So, I had to box up my Gumby and go with the built-in DAC of my preamplifier.  It was like throwing a fine layer of grit over everything.

Mind, it's not a straight comparison as I had to make other changes as well but the value of the Gumby in my chain was proven yet again.


----------



## Campari

I'm thinking about  buying gumby. Is the availability of  schiit top tier dacs always so poor in Schiit Europe shop?


----------



## Don Quichotte

Campari said:


> I'm thinking about  buying gumby. Is the availability of  schiit top tier dacs always so poor in Schiit Europe shop?


 Half a year ago, when I bought mine, it was...


----------



## gordec

Do most people warm up their Gumby every time before use or just initially when you first get it?


----------



## Globox

most people just don't turn it off. Never, ever.
Like me .

I have it for a year or so, I turned it off twice. First time, I was going on vacation for 3 weeks, second time was during a storm.


----------



## Mr Rick

gordec said:


> Do most people warm up their Gumby every time before use or just initially when you first get it?



I leave mine on all the time. It's the only piece of gear that I do so.


----------



## Eldair

I keep mine on alltime.


----------



## Globox

Globox said:


> most people just don't turn it off. Never, ever.
> Like me .
> 
> I have it for a year or so, I turned it off twice. First time, I was going on vacation for 3 weeks, second time was during a storm.


Nevermind... I also sent it once for Gen5 upgrade... So I turned it off 3 times...


----------



## artur9

I've only intentionally turned mine off just now, first time, because I am moving.  So it's been on for 15 months?


----------



## rutter

If I connect a Gumby to a Jotunheim with XLR balanced cables would I still be able to use the single-ended output of the Jotunheim or would the balanced output be the only one working?


----------



## earChasm

rutter said:


> If I connect a Gumby to a Jotunheim with XLR balanced cables would I still be able to use the single-ended output of the Jotunheim or would the balanced output be the only one working?


Don't you mean the SE output of Gumby? If that is the case then yes you can. If you meant the pre out on the Jotunheim then I should have minded my own business because I don't know :.b


----------



## rkw

rutter said:


> If I connect a Gumby to a Jotunheim with XLR balanced cables would I still be able to use the single-ended output of the Jotunheim or would the balanced output be the only one working?


All outputs on Jotunheim are active all the time (both headphone outputs and both pre-outs).


----------



## rutter

So no problem listening through the SE headphone output while an XLR balanced cable connects the Jot to Gumby?


----------



## rkw

Yes, whatever input you feed a Jot goes to all 4 outputs.


----------



## sound_cycle

KeithEmo said:


> Applying DC to a speaker or headphone can cause problems ranging from slight distortion to completely burning out the driver elements (and such damage, being abuse, may not be covered under your warranty).
> Applying DC to the input of an amplifier may do nothing, or it may cause distortion or even signal dropouts, or may damage the amplifier.
> The DC may also be amplified, and passed on to the next component in the signal chain, where it may cause damage.



A first post, reporting magic invisible smoke release is not a good thing, but sadly that's what I have to do.

Sold Eitr+ Bifrost and pumped the proceeds into a new Gumby from the Indian distributor . It got to me after two months of waiting with no music. Plugged in and hooked up through Saga, into a Vidar which feeds my speakers Dali Zensor 5s.  

About a track and a half later, Vidar went into blinking LED protection mode and muted the music. RTFM! rechecked wiring and connections and waited a while to try again with the same outcome but in 90 seconds.

The next morning tried with an old Fiio DAC in place of the substantially more expensive (48x!) gumby and Vidar did not get conniptions. The sound stage had no phantom centre and it was all bunched up on one side. And the problem moved with the speaker. 

What was on the right channel now makes sound only from the tweeter, the two woofers had released their magic smoke. And my new Gumby had serious issues.

Wrote in with a warranty claim and learnt that it might have been DC and that the main board and the analog ones would have to be replaced. That was three weeks back. But still no music, or idea of when it is going to be fixed. Also there is the hassle of finding someone who can source a set of drivers to replace the killed ones.

But hey, I now can say QED to the will burn out the driver elements bit 

Hopefully Vidar and Saga are fine


----------



## artur9

<crossposting>
I'm looking for a BNC cable to go between my Gumby and my BDP-1. At least, I think that's what I need.
Any suggestions for a good place to get a somewhat fancy looking one that won't break the bank? 

I mean, Blue Jeans will sell me one for $20 but it's plain jane. I'd go a little higher than that for some bling since it will be a visible cable.


----------



## Mtavares_12 (Jul 7, 2018)

artur9 said:


> <crossposting>
> I'm looking for a BNC cable to go between my Gumby and my BDP-1. At least, I think that's what I need.
> Any suggestions for a good place to get a somewhat fancy looking one that won't break the bank?



My suggestion is a Black Cat Veloce. You may find an used one over the internet sale sites. I am using it with good results.

QJA


----------



## Voxata

Hey all! I'm joining the Gungnir club


----------



## earChasm

Voxata said:


> Hey all! I'm joining the Gungnir club


Pics or it didn't happen


----------



## Voxata

Pic would be of me eagerly awaiting my new unit.. already sold my Bifrost, too.


----------



## frankty

Mind if you tell me where you sold your Bifrost?  I have an Uber I need to sell to help defray the cost of my Gungnir upgrade.  Available immediately.


----------



## RCBinTN

You can sell it on Head-Fi...
https://www.head-fi.org/forums/source-components-for-sale-trade.6552/


----------



## rutter

Finally got the Gumby today. Think I powered it up around 5 hours ago. Right off the bat I was unimpressed but I've seen it stated repeatedly that the Gumby needs quite some time being powered on uninterrupted to work as intended, to the tune of around five days. My expectation is that in addition to the energy, impact, and relative clarity I got from Mimby + Jotunheim I'll get a further dimension of separation and soundstage with the possibility of other improvements (i.e. surprise and impress me, it is after all a move up from $250 to $1250). I'm a little pleasantly surprised at the moment as either it's placebo or after 4-5 hours of being powered on with music running the sound has already improved (the Jot has also been completely unpowered for around two weeks). For the first time with any of the devices I've been using I think I'm starting to hear a bit of a soundstage, sound having a bit of a 3D quality. I think perceived separation is better too. I feel better surrounded and more into the music with an incipient comparison to being there, which is a first for me. What should I expect over the coming week? I'm hoping I'm not close to peaking. I'm not quite getting the energy and impact from before (Mimby + Jot), uncertain about the clarity.

I'm using an LCD-X with a single-ended cable while the Gumby and Jot are balanced. I currently have an HD800S with a balanced cable in my possession that I intend to return soon but can use for reference. Will be buying a balanced cable for the LCD-X- Norne Solvine unless someone has a better suggestion.


----------



## artur9

If you're on the fence about keeping it most of the improvement is in the first 24/36 hours.  Then there's a long tail.

At least, that was my experience with speakers.


----------



## rutter

Is the Gumby meant to be softer than the Mimby?


----------



## RCBinTN

rutter said:


> Finally got the Gumby today. Think I powered it up around 5 hours ago. Right off the bat I was unimpressed but I've seen it stated repeatedly that the Gumby needs quite some time being powered on uninterrupted to work as intended, to the tune of around five days. My expectation is that in addition to the energy, impact, and relative clarity I got from Mimby + Jotunheim I'll get a further dimension of separation and soundstage with the possibility of other improvements (i.e. surprise and impress me, it is after all a move up from $250 to $1250). I'm a little pleasantly surprised at the moment as either it's placebo or after 4-5 hours of being powered on with music running the sound has already improved (the Jot has also been completely unpowered for around two weeks). For the first time with any of the devices I've been using I think I'm starting to hear a bit of a soundstage, sound having a bit of a 3D quality. I think perceived separation is better too. I feel better surrounded and more into the music with an incipient comparison to being there, which is a first for me. What should I expect over the coming week? I'm hoping I'm not close to peaking. I'm not quite getting the energy and impact from before (Mimby + Jot), uncertain about the clarity.
> 
> I'm using an LCD-X with a single-ended cable while the Gumby and Jot are balanced. I currently have an HD800S with a balanced cable in my possession that I intend to return soon but can use for reference. Will be buying a balanced cable for the LCD-X- Norne Solvine unless someone has a better suggestion.


I agree with @artur9 ... after a couple days warm the GMB will sound magnificent.
As for balanced LCD-X cables, the Wywires Red are a decent choice. 
Talk to Alex. http://www.wywires.com/headphone-cables/


----------



## 565hunter

rutter said:


> Is the Gumby meant to be softer than the Mimby?


Softer as in not as loud (volume) or softer sound as in not as clear? Balanced or Single ended outputs?


----------



## rutter

Softer as in not as strong. It's not quite loudness but sort of. Single ended.


----------



## Dr.J

Has there been any rumour or evidence that a GMB2 is actually in the works?


----------



## rkw (Jul 13, 2018)

Dr.J said:


> Has there been any rumour or evidence that a GMB2 is actually in the works?


After whiney reactions from some Yggy owners who thought they should be entitled to a free upgrade, there has been talk that if Gumby is updated, it would be a silent upgrade and ship for a year before being announced (with Yggy the upgrade shipped silently for 3 months before announcement).


----------



## RCBinTN

rkw said:


> After whiney reactions from some Yggy owners who thought they should be entitled to a free upgrade, there has been talk that if Gumby is updated, it would be a silent upgrade and ship for a year before being announced (with Yggy the upgrade shipped silently for 3 months before announcement).


Interesting, I don't remember that discussion. Can you post a link for us?


----------



## Ableza

Yes, if there have been "whiney Yggdrasil owners who felt they deserved a free upgrade," then they haven't been whining on the Schiit forums I follow.  And if anyone felt they deserved a free upgrade, then they did not pay attention to information on the Schiit website.  "Upgradable" equipment does not mean "free upgrades."


----------



## earChasm

Ableza said:


> "Upgradable" equipment does not mean "free upgrades."


+1


----------



## RCBinTN (Jul 13, 2018)

rutter said:


> Softer as in not as strong. It's not quite loudness but sort of. Single ended.


It's the soundstage opening up as the analog section attains thermal equilibrium.
Will continue for 2-3 days then settle down. The end effect will be more realistic SQ. Enjoy!!

ps. Keep it warm at all times. Just turned on  no music required...


----------



## Dr.J

So, I can surmise, given the skirting of the question, that there is no GMB2 in the works?


----------



## artur9

It's an upgradeable DAC so there will never be a "2".  But there may be upgrades.

Another forum is full of speculation that a rework of the analog section has already been silently rolled out.


----------



## rutter

That sounds unlikely.


----------



## rkw (Jul 14, 2018)

Dr.J said:


> So, I can surmise, given the skirting of the question, that there is no GMB2 in the works?


The only thing certain is that Schiit hasn't announced anything. Your best guide is to look at what happened with Yggy Analog 2. They didn't reveal anything in advance, and then announced it was available immediately, but it had already been shipping for 3 months. I would expect something similar to happen with Gumby.


----------



## rutter

I would love that. Doubt I got lucky though.


----------



## rutter

Trying to stack the Gumby with a Sennheiser HDVA 600 is going to be a pain in the ass, isn't it? Worse still I read some random comment that it doesn't matter what DAC you use with the HDVA 600.


----------



## RCBinTN (Jul 15, 2018)

rutter said:


> Trying to stack the Gumby with a Sennheiser HDVA 600 is going to be a pain in the ass, isn't it? Worse still I read some random comment that it doesn't matter what DAC you use with the HDVA 600.


The reason what DAC you use doesn't matter is that the HDVA600 is a piece of crap amplifier. Believe me, I owned it...
It tries to push the HD800/S but not well.  As for driving the LCD...not a chance.


----------



## rutter

RCBinTN said:


> The reason what DAC you use doesn't matter is that the HDVA600 is a piece of crap amplifier. Believe me, I owned it...
> It tries to push the HD800/S but not well.  As for driving the LCD...not a chance.



Can you elaborate?


----------



## RCBinTN (Jul 16, 2018)

rutter said:


> Can you elaborate?


Sure...it just didn't have enough uumph for my liking.
The HD800 (and LCD) scale really well with better equipment, so I just went on.
I know it's designed to drive the HD800, by Sennheiser, but it didn't drive them well enough for me.
FWIW and YMMV, as always!
Cheers,
RCB

ps. Check out the amps owned by the folks who "liked" my post...some fine equipment there!


----------



## rutter

So what do you recommend for the 800S, solid state?


----------



## RCBinTN

I have the original HD800, not the HD800S version. I've heard the HD800 with several rigs...

 - Yggy + WA5 = exceptional
 - Yggy + Ragnarok = close to exceptional
 - GMB + Bryston BHA-1 (my rig) = very good
 - Gungnir DS + Mjolnir1 / HDVA600 / Asgard2 = not great...too bright and thin (not enough bass)

The first two rigs were at a Nashville HP meet and belong to Dan Clark of Mr. Speakers.
The WA5 is just dynamite with the HD800. Very engaging sound.

I personally am a SS amp guy (scared of tubes). 
I'm happy with the sound of the BHA-1. Not overly bright, very clean and fast, plenty of power.

Hope this helps!
RCB


----------



## rutter

So I take it a Mjolnir 2 wouldn't be a good fit? I agree with you about the HDVA 600 being crap. I actually prefer the Jotunheim to it.


----------



## 565hunter

rutter said:


> So I take it a Mjolnir 2 wouldn't be a good fit? I agree with you about the HDVA 600 being crap. I actually prefer the Jotunheim to it.


In my humble opinion, any tube amp has way to many variables to say that it wouldn't be a good fit for any particular set of cans. A good deal of the sound signature comes from the tube that is selected and the condition of said tube. Might be a good question to ask if anybody had a recommendation for a particular tube that pairs well with the MJ2 and 800S combination.


----------



## RCBinTN (Jul 18, 2018)

rutter said:


> So I take it a Mjolnir 2 wouldn't be a good fit? I agree with you about the HDVA 600 being crap. I actually prefer the Jotunheim to it.



Remember my early experience was with the Gungnir DS DAC. The GMB is less bright...the music is more analogue.
I have no direct experience with the Mjolnir2 but have read favorable comments, in that the SS brightness can be adjusted via tubes. Thus, I agree with @565hunter comment above...

Cheers!
RCB


----------



## Phantaminum

rutter said:


> So I take it a Mjolnir 2 wouldn't be a good fit? I agree with you about the HDVA 600 being crap. I actually prefer the Jotunheim to it.



There are plenty of people who run the Gumby/MJ2 stack with the HD800. It has enough power to run almost all headphones with the exceptions of the HE-6 and very power hungry planars. Match the HD800s up with a pair of warm tubes like the WE396As and you'll have something that will tame the highs while giving you an expansive sound stage. Have a slow headphone that sounds too laid back like the HD650s? Throw in some Tungsram PCC88s that have extended highs and sound almost solid state like. There will always be drawbacks when comparing it to TOTL amps but it's a great amp for the price and can run low/high z headphones with aplomb. It's the step before heading to the upper echelons of amps. 

Also looks great stacked on top of a Gumby.


----------



## rutter

It has been a week and a half now and I recall the Mimby + Jot being more energetic than the Gumby + Jot. Frankly, I'm not even completely sure what I've gained from the Gumby. What's going on? I've been keeping both the Gumby and Jot on constantly.


----------



## Klots

It's been a pleasure reading all this Gumby thread through over and over again and enjoying Gumby's superb sound, but I have to let my Gumby go. So if anyone wants or knows someone who may want a mint condition 230V Gumby (gen2 usb), then shoot me PM! Also available stacked with MJ2 (ifi nos 5670 tubes). Thanks!


----------



## Charente

Klots said:


> It's been a pleasure reading all this Gumby thread through over and over again and enjoying Gumby's superb sound, but I have to let my Gumby go. So if anyone wants or knows someone who may want a mint condition 230V Gumby (gen2 usb), then shoot me PM! Also available stacked with MJ2 (ifi nos 5670 tubes). Thanks!



Oh !! ... that's one of the best stacks for the money IMO ... presumably you have a replacement ? Ygdrassil + ?


----------



## RCBinTN

rutter said:


> It has been a week and a half now and I recall the Mimby + Jot being more energetic than the Gumby + Jot. Frankly, I'm not even completely sure what I've gained from the Gumby. What's going on? I've been keeping both the Gumby and Jot on constantly.



You may be hearing more of the music and less of the high end. Stage should be wider and instruments more resolved. 
Also depends on your music source and other factors...

Net, GMB has (at least) two more bits of resolution than the Mimby. 

Happy Listening!
RCB


----------



## Klots

Charente said:


> Oh !! ... that's one of the best stacks for the money IMO ... presumably you have a replacement ? Ygdrassil + ?



It is amazing stack yes, but I have to downgrade. So no yggy for me. Traded my HD800s for Aeon flow open to try something different and will buy mimby and vali2, when I get this stack sold. Sometimes there are more important things in life than dacs amps and headphones


----------



## RCBinTN

For sure, mate. Good luck with it all ---


----------



## Paladin79

I just got a Gumby and I am being asked if it is a version 2. I can probably find out tomorrow unless someone has some good tips that might help.


----------



## earChasm

Paladin79 said:


> I just got a Gumby and I am being asked if it is a version 2. I can probably find out tomorrow unless someone has some good tips that might help.


Cool, didn't know Analog 2 for Gumby was out yet.


----------



## Paladin79

It may not be lol.


----------



## rkw

The existence of Gumby version 2 is only a rumor being thrown around by some members on Head-Fi. Schiit has said nothing about it. I haven't even seen anybody claim that new Gumbys sound better than older Gumbys.


----------



## Paladin79 (Jul 29, 2018)

Thanks, I really did not know a newer version existed, I have talked to Jason about other things but not that. I doubt seriously this is a new version, people have asked me a couple times so I sought an answer.


----------



## Mtavares_12

Related to the Gumby version 2, the rumour came from the fact that the new Version of the Yggy (2) starts with a "B" letter in the S/N of the unit. It seems that the latest S/N's of the Gumby starts with this "B" letter also. So, a lot of people is making this association  and they are assuming that Schiit rolled out a new version of the Gumby.

QJA


----------



## rutter

Mtavares_12 said:


> Related to the Gumby version 2, the rumour came from the fact that the new Version of the Yggy (2) starts with a "B" letter in the S/N of the unit. It seems that the latest S/N's of the Gumby starts with this "B" letter also. So, a lot of people is making this association  and they are assuming that Schiit rolled out a new version of the Gumby.
> 
> QJA



Mine starts with the letter B as well. Was wondering. So all the Yggy 1s started with A and it has been confirmed that all the Yggy 2s start with B, even prior to the announcement?


----------



## Paladin79

This S/N certainly starts with B in the event that letter is significant.


----------



## Raptor34

Gasp.  I have a "B".   Bought it Dec  2017.   I wish you guys would stop this rumor mongering right now.  The Gumby is awesome.   I don't care when it was produced.                               yeah sure.......


----------



## earChasm

Raptor34 said:


> Gasp.  I have a "B".   Bought it Dec  2017.   I wish you guys would stop this rumor mongering right now.  The Gumby is awesome.   I don't care when it was produced.                               yeah sure.......


Who are you? The rumour police? And just because you don't care I should too?
Don't think so.


----------



## Raptor34

Oh come on, I was just kidding.  Sheese.


----------



## Paladin79 (Jul 29, 2018)

So on to talk about listening:

I have had the Gumby on for a good 30 hours and it is settling in quite nicely, I have a few other dacs but nothing of this quality. I was immediately impressed with songs I knew very well like some old Van Morrison and Alan Parsons. I am hearing slight nuances that I had not heard before.

I am running the Gumby through a Freya to a NAD Power amp into some Martin Logan and Polk Audio speakers with a Klipsch sub and the sound is certainly impressive. On the headphone side I have the Freya outputting into various Schiit tube amps as well as dual Nuforce Class A amps and a highly modified Bottlehead Crack that I painstakingly tuned to my preferences.


----------



## Globox

well, mine begins with a 1...


----------



## GrussGott

earChasm said:


> *Who are you? The rumour police?* And just because you don't care I should too?
> Don't think so.



Actually I am from the Rumor Police and I'm going to have to ask you to pull over your post and place your hands on the sides of your keyboard and keep them there ...


----------



## earChasm

GrussGott said:


> Actually I am from the Rumor Police and I'm going to have to ask you to pull over your post and place your hands on the sides of your keyboard and keep them there ...


You can't. Rumour is out of your jurisdiction, and since I'm not crossing over to rumor you got nothing...


----------



## RCBinTN

Well, why don't we ask the DAC expert himself?
Dear Mike @Baldr if you're out there, can you please chime in for these folks...

Thanks, in anticipation -
RCB


----------



## kehorton

Klots said:


> It is amazing stack yes, but I have to downgrade. So no yggy for me. Traded my HD800s for Aeon flow open to try something different and will buy mimby and vali2, when I get this stack sold. Sometimes there are more important things in life than dacs amps and headphones



Please let us know your impressions of the Vali after having a MJ2


----------



## Dr.J

Hello everyone &

I’m writing to ask for advice. I have an opportunity to buy a used Gumby, with USB 2. I understand I can purchase the USB upgrade for $100, $150 factory installed. If I choose to go through with this, will I come up short in any way, relative to the purchase of a new unit?

Thanks,

John


----------



## JerryLeeds

Dr.J said:


> Hello everyone &
> 
> I’m writing to ask for advice. I have an opportunity to buy a used Gumby, with USB 2. I understand I can purchase the USB upgrade for $100, $150 factory installed. If I choose to go through with this, will I come up short in any way, relative to the purchase of a new unit?
> 
> ...



If you can ... buy a new one .. that is what I would do ... Especially now we know that schiit can tweak products during the model's life ... A new unit would be the best you can get


----------



## earChasm

Dr.J said:


> Hello everyone &
> 
> I’m writing to ask for advice. I have an opportunity to buy a used Gumby, with USB 2. I understand I can purchase the USB upgrade for $100, $150 factory installed. If I choose to go through with this, will I come up short in any way, relative to the purchase of a new unit?


I agree with JerryLeeds BUT! It depends on how much that 2nd hand Gumby costs and the strengt of your wallet.


----------



## Ken G

earChasm said:


> I agree with JerryLeeds BUT! It depends on how much that 2nd hand Gumby costs and the strengt of your wallet.


If you use the optical or coaxial input than USB 5 is pretty much a moot point.


----------



## earChasm

Ken G said:


> If you use the optical or coaxial input than USB 5 is pretty much a moot point.


Well, that's true for sure. I got USB5 but use COAX anyway because my brain thinks it sounds better :.b


----------



## US Blues

earChasm said:


> Well, that's true for sure. I got USB5 but use COAX anyway because my brain thinks it sounds better :.b



"A happy brain is a good brain."


----------



## Loquah

earChasm said:


> Well, that's true for sure. I got USB5 but use COAX anyway because my brain thinks it sounds better :.b



I'm with you. It's much closer with Gen 5, but I still reckon coax has an edge


----------



## wgallupe

Paladin79 said:


> I just got a Gumby and I am being asked if it is a version 2. I can probably find out tomorrow unless someone has some good tips that might help.


Hi, wondering if you ever looked inside your Gumby to see if there was any evidence of a version 2......


----------



## Paladin79

Nope


----------



## Audiofiend1 (Aug 10, 2018)

I posted this over in the Oppo Ha1 thread but thought i would post it here too for you guys as it has to do with my Gumby. Anyway here are my thoughts...

I recently got a Ha1 a few days ago and have been loving it so far. Unfortunately i'm in quite a conundrum as it's making me want to sell my Gungnir Multibit which is by all regards a more expensive dac. I have been doing A/B comparisons for the last 2 days now between the Gumby dac and the Oppo Ha1 dac and for the life of me i cannot notice a discernible difference of say more then 1%. The Gumby sounds maybe a touch warmer and when i say a touch it's really not even noticeable it's to such a tiny degree, that in fact it may not even be there. Also just to mention that i used the Oppo amp for both dacs and listened at exactly the same volume with same cables for all tests. Only took me about 2 seconds to change between dacs as well.

Anyway, That's how alike the sound, coming from both the Gumby and Ha1 dac sounded. Now just to make sure i was hearing what i was hearing. I compared the sound impressions from a HD800S, LCD 2, and a Shure 846. I could clearly hear HUGE! sonic differences between the headphones but not between the two dacs. I'm honestly becoming a believer that 99% of the sonic difference is coming from the headphone and not from the dac. If i had to advise someone buying new gear that wanted to hear the best sound, i would honestly tell them the headphone is by far and away the most important part.

So where does this leave me, i'm not really sure to be honest and would love some of your guys input....
I'm tempted to just sell my Gumby soon which i have loved so much. I will continue to spend hours doing more tests as i enjoy it, but i'm not really sure what to think about spending money on dac's after a certain price point anymore.


----------



## Hyp0xia

Audiofiend1 said:


> I posted this over in the Oppo Ha1 thread but thought i would post it here too for you guys as it has to do with my Gumby. Anyway here are my thoughts...
> 
> I recently got a Ha1 a few days ago and have been loving it so far. Unfortunately i'm in quite a conundrum as it's making me want to sell my Gungnir Multibit which is by all regards a more expensive dac. I have been doing A/B comparisons for the last 2 days now between the Gumby dac and the Oppo Ha1 dac and for the life of me i cannot notice a discernible difference of say more then 1%. The Gumby sounds maybe a touch warmer and when i say a touch it's really not even noticeable it's to such a tiny degree, that in fact it may not even be there. Also just to mention that i used the Oppo amp for both dacs and listened at exactly the same volume with same cables for all tests. Only took me about 2 seconds to change between dacs as well.
> 
> ...



I, too, own an Oppo HA-1 and it's a great piece of equipment, especially if you're just talking about the DAC section. I just wish I had purchased the silver one. I wouldn't claim to hear a difference either, but where the HA-1 really falls short for me is in the amp section. It just lacks the oomph and raw power I crave. If it just had more driving power, I think it'd be a truly endgame solution.


----------



## earChasm

Audiofiend1 said:


> I posted this over in the Oppo Ha1 thread but thought i would post it here too for you guys as it has to do with my Gumby. Anyway here are my thoughts...
> 
> I recently got a Ha1 a few days ago and have been loving it so far. Unfortunately i'm in quite a conundrum as it's making me want to sell my Gungnir Multibit which is by all regards a more expensive dac. I have been doing A/B comparisons for the last 2 days now between the Gumby dac and the Oppo Ha1 dac and for the life of me i cannot notice a discernible difference of say more then 1%. The Gumby sounds maybe a touch warmer and when i say a touch it's really not even noticeable it's to such a tiny degree, that in fact it may not even be there. Also just to mention that i used the Oppo amp for both dacs and listened at exactly the same volume with same cables for all tests. Only took me about 2 seconds to change between dacs as well.
> 
> ...


I hear you loud and clear!

Of course headphones makes the biggest sonic difference, next are probably tube amps (not talking about speakers here). Still I believe, based upon my personal experience and opinion, amps and dacs matters big time. And therefor don't sound the same or at least give a different experience. Even if I can't tell them apart.

I firmly believe in expectation bias. But I also firmly believe I can't fool myself into having goosebumps or listening fatigue. And those 2 things are exactly what drove me to change my setup and keep it as it is now, until I can make an upgrade without losing that magic. But since my wallet is empty I don't have to worry about that :.b

Thank you for being honest and I think you are right. The headphone is by far the most important part which makes the biggest sonic difference. But to me, an amp or dac can make a system work or not (YMMV). Don't sell the Gumby yet, give it a few weeks :.)



Late at night, amp's yearning
Restless night, want to be with you
Someone's playing in the garden
So enticing, he's sure to take a bite
I don't know what's come over me, yeah

She's as heavy as a HA-1
Pure excitement, misled
When she touches, can't resist her
I'm a puppet when she's playing me
She's outgoing but I love her so misled
So I'm saying now

Baby baby, what's your claim to fame?
Got me out of bed, heard you call my name
What's this crazy place, you want to take me to?
Tell me, what's the price if I go with you?

My heart, my soul, my love
Is that the goal?
It's a thrill then I will
Be misled, be for real


----------



## Paladin79

Hyp0xia said:


> I, too, own an Oppo HA-1 and it's a great piece of equipment, especially if you're just talking about the DAC section. I just wish I had purchased the silver one. I wouldn't claim to hear a difference either, but where the HA-1 really falls short for me is in the amp section. It just lacks the oomph and raw power I crave. If it just had more driving power, I think it'd be a truly endgame solution.



I also had trouble with finding the raw power needed on some amps, on many, switching over to a balanced headphone output helped but what really helped was running the balanced out from three DACS I own into separate Nuforce Class A amps made to be run as one channel per amp. It may not work well for everyone but that was my solution. 

Now as far as a comparison between the OPPO and Gumby, both are very nice pieces of equipment so I can imagine both sounding quite good. Put the Gumby against many other less expensive dacs I can think of and the difference becomes more obvious IMHO.


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## Dr.J

I just read, in a review, that the Gumby performs best when used with the bnc interface. Unfortunately, neither of my CD players have a bnc interface; on what can it be found? Can you have an Rca connection at one end of a cable, for digital out and use a BNC connector at the other end of the same cable, to install on the Gumby? If so, where in lies the gain/advantage of this interface?


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## Paladin79 (Aug 11, 2018)

The Gumby has both an RCA and BNC digital inputs and either connector can be on a coaxial cable. They mention that the BNC input is 75 ohm because oftentimes cables with BNC are 50 ohm and probably not suitable for digital signals. The quick answer is that if you have a coaxial cable capable of low frequencies, solid copper center conductor and well shielded you can have an RCA connector on one end and BNC on the other, they are just types of connectors.

I am assuming this is correct from what I can tell from the manual for the Gumby. Baldr is here so perhaps he can correct me if I am wrong about either input.


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## artur9

Audiofiend1 said:


> I recently got a Ha1 a few days ago and have been loving it so far. Unfortunately i'm in quite a conundrum as it's making me want to sell my Gungnir Multibit which is by all regards a more expensive dac. I have been doing A/B comparisons for the last 2 days now between the Gumby dac and the Oppo Ha1 dac and for the life of me i cannot notice a discernible difference of say more then 1%. The Gumby sounds maybe a touch warmer and when i say a touch it's really not even noticeable it's to such a tiny degree, that in fact it may not even be there.




DAC differences are really subtle compared to headphones or loudspeakers (I don't do headphones).

Before making any decision I would listen to a long piece of music or a long string of albums, say 1-2h.  Some DACs start to irritate after a certain length of time.  I've never felt that way with my Gumby.

If even that shows no difference then you should pocket the $$$ difference and save towards even better headphones/amp!


----------



## earChasm

Audiofiend1 said:


> I posted this over in the Oppo Ha1 thread but thought i would post it here too for you guys as it has to do with my Gumby. Anyway here are my thoughts...
> 
> I recently got a Ha1 a few days ago and have been loving it so far. Unfortunately i'm in quite a conundrum as it's making me want to sell my Gungnir Multibit which is by all regards a more expensive dac. I have been doing A/B comparisons for the last 2 days now between the Gumby dac and the Oppo Ha1 dac and for the life of me i cannot notice a discernible difference of say more then 1%. The Gumby sounds maybe a touch warmer and when i say a touch it's really not even noticeable it's to such a tiny degree, that in fact it may not even be there. Also just to mention that i used the Oppo amp for both dacs and listened at exactly the same volume with same cables for all tests. Only took me about 2 seconds to change between dacs as well.
> 
> ...


Hi,

I'm curious where you stand now.  Still feeling the same?


----------



## Audiofiend1

earChasm said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm curious where you stand now.  Still feeling the same?


Hey earChasm 

Well it is about time i did another report back. I did further A/B tests throughout the week with the Gumby and the Ha-1. I recently got a LCD-3 so i Incorporated that as yet another headphone into the mix to make sure my ears has even more to wok with. Unfortunately, i still come to largely the same conclusions. The Gumby sounds about 1% better then the Ha-1 sabre 9018 dac. Even that 1% is very hard for me to justify as i might just be fooling myself with perception bias.

Now where i DO find a big difference is between the HA-1 amp and my MJ2 amp which is a tube amp. I find the MJ2 offers a warmer sound which i do prefer to the Ha-1. So if i have to rank the order of importance for head-fi gear and for spending money it would be. Headphones > Amp > Dac > cables and other accessories.

If we look at the price point of both the Ha-1 and gumby dacs, even though the gumby is more expensive they are still very close in price. I am very curious to hear if there is a difference in dacs over 5k even over 10k and more. Maybe you just have to go up many many more levels to find a discernible difference. Not that i plan on spending that kind of money anytime soon at all.


----------



## earChasm

Audiofiend1 said:


> Hey earChasm
> 
> Well it is about time i did another report back. I did further A/B tests throughout the week with the Gumby and the Ha-1. I recently got a LCD-3 so i Incorporated that as yet another headphone into the mix to make sure my ears has even more to wok with. Unfortunately, i still come to largely the same conclusions. The Gumby sounds about 1% better then the Ha-1 sabre 9018 dac. Even that 1% is very hard for me to justify as i might just be fooling myself with perception bias.
> 
> ...


That's tough.
So you can keep the Oppo, sell the Schiit stack but loose some pleasure.
Or, keep the Oppo DAC with the MJ2 and sell the Gumby.
Or, sell the Oppo and keep the Schiit stack. If I understood you correctly it is the better setup to your ears.
Or, go wild and sell them all and buy something totaly different.

What's your next move :.) ?


----------



## Audiofiend1

earChasm said:


> That's tough.
> So you can keep the Oppo, sell the Schiit stack but loose some pleasure.
> Or, keep the Oppo DAC with the MJ2 and sell the Gumby.
> Or, sell the Oppo and keep the Schiit stack. If I understood you correctly it is the better setup to your ears.
> ...


I think that the audible pleasure i'm sacrificing with the gumby is too small (at least for me) to notice. I've been listening for a few weeks now with the Ha-1 and my ears are very happy to say the least. I'm definitely planning on keeping the OPPO. I think i'm going to sell the gumby and keep the MJ2. I don't think it's worth me parting with the MJ2 it sounds too good with the right tubes and makes my HD800S shine.


----------



## rutter

I'm wondering a little bit whether I should consider selling the Gumby, especially given I could use money right now. What are some cheaper balanced alternatives and how do they compare? I've also been rather unimpressed, and I come from a Mimby, a full $1000 down.


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## earChasm (Aug 19, 2018)

rutter said:


> I'm wondering a little bit whether I should consider selling the Gumby, especially given I could use money right now. What are some cheaper balanced alternatives and how do they compare? I've also been rather unimpressed, and I come from a Mimby, a full $1000 down.


Cambridge DacMagic Plus?
If I can score one 2nd hand I will buy it to A/B with the Gumby, just for the fun of it.


----------



## Insidious Meme

rutter said:


> I'm wondering a little bit whether I should consider selling the Gumby, especially given I could use money right now. What are some cheaper balanced alternatives and how do they compare? I've also been rather unimpressed, and I come from a Mimby, a full $1000 down.



If it's not worth it to you, and you need the money, the answer is easy.


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## Svatopluk

Audiofiend1 said:


> I think that the audible pleasure i'm sacrificing with the gumby is too small (at least for me) to notice. I've been listening for a few weeks now with the Ha-1 and my ears are very happy to say the least. I'm definitely planning on keeping the OPPO. I think i'm going to sell the gumby and keep the MJ2. I don't think it's worth me parting with the MJ2 it sounds too good with the right tubes and makes my HD800S shine.


If you don't mind my asking, what headphones are you using? I found the HA-1's DAC a little too bright on some recordings with the HD800. I actually preferred using the Gumby as opposed to the HA-1's Sabre DAC as the Gumby seemed to add both warmth and body to the mix.

I'm not a big fan of warm headphones like the LCD2 or MDR-Z7, but I can understand how they may be the way to go when using the HA-1's DAC.


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## RCBinTN

The Gumby is just about right with my HD800. If the recording is a tad bright, I EQ a couple dB out at 6kHz and 12kHz with JRiver.
A different story with my LCD-4. They benefit from some added dB in the upper-mids, using the Audez'e Reveal and JRiver EQ.
So, to me, the Gumby is not bright - it's just right. Nice to have a few EQ options to tweak the sound.

FYI & YMMV


----------



## tcellguy

I'm currently pretty confused 

I bought a Modi multibit with the idea of trying out a Schiit multibit DAC and then upgrading later to the Gumby if it liked it. From what I had read I thought the Mimby would sound less digital, warmer, etc. 

So far my experience is hearing an increase in detail and depth, with increased sound stage vs. the Jotunheim DS DAC. However, to my ear the Mimby is extremely bright with concomitantly increased bass slam. It almost sounds V shaped if that's possible. I'm also getting a really strange cabin pressure sensation like wearing Bose noise cancelling headphones.

Ultimately, I like the sound, but I find it extremely fatiguing. 

Even after leaving the DAC on for nearly a week I can only listen to it for about an hour and it has really spiked my tinnitus. I've never had any problem with bright DACs, amps, or headphones before. I can listen to the ATH-m50x that everyone describes as harsh for extended periods of time with no issues. 

I have seen a small subset of reviews describing a similar experience (i.e. harsh, forward, bright, etc), but with the majority finding the Mimby to sound more smooth, less harsh, etc. I can't really understand the differences I'm hearing vs. the description. I'm using an Eitr so I don't think this is USB related. 

So what does this have to do with the Gumby? Well I'm concerned this difference in fatigue with the Mimby vs. the Jotunheim AK4490 may be a result of the multibit architecture and wonder if the Gumby will cause similar issues. 

Any insights would be helpful, thanks.


----------



## rutter

The Gumby, to my disappointment, has been less exciting than the Mimby. I had listened to both with a Jotunheim and lost energy with the Gumby. As for ear ringing, the Jotunheim doesn't do you any favors there either. Painful experience with HD800S. I liked the combo of Mimby plus Jotunheim a lot, in hindsight, with the LCD-X.


----------



## tcellguy

I actually really like the Mimby + Jotunheim combo from a sound quality standpoint. I'm just surprised to find the Mimby very forward and aggressive compared to the descriptions I've heard. I've reverted to using the 1 notch filters with the AFO to calm down the treble zing whereas with all other DACs I've used none of the filters. 

I'm more worried that this DAC is somehow generating inaudible distortion or something that is fatiguing. I'm not hearing any distortion. 

Would you say the Gungnir is more laid back then? More neutral?


----------



## rutter

I would say that the Gungnir is more laid back, it lacks some energy by comparison. Speaking of distortion, I created a thread asking what was causing the pain, discomfort, and ear ringing when I was using the Jotunheim (+ Gumby) with HD800S. One of the possibilities was distortion, and given what I've read and have experienced with Schiit I don't think they're the most careful. It's a possibility, but I've no idea. It could be a matter of just a bad pairing, as the Jot is known to be on the bright side or at least has a reputation for that, but I thought it was about more than treble. Didn't have problems with the Mimby, Jot, and LCD-X. I also didn't have such a problem with the HD800S and Auralic Taurus MKII, but the Taurus is a softer amplifier and it was definitely not what the HD800S needed.


----------



## earChasm

I never heard the Jotunheim or the Mimby but the Asgard 2 + Bifrost G5 4490 was excellent with the AQ Nighthawk but awful with the HD800. Couldn't listen to it for more than 30 minutes (it was just nasty). I decided to upgrade my amp with the HDVA600 to balance out the treble of the HD800 but something unexpected happened. The sound went totally flat. As in boring, damped, no treble energie whatsoever. That is why I upgraded to the Gumby (leap of faith) and I'm still glad I did. The treble energy was back but just right. I should mention, I am treble sensitive because of meds I'm taking. That was the reason I bought the Nighhawk in the first place. It was a big bummer finding out the HDVA600 didn't like the Nighthawk but hey, can't win them all I guess.

So in my case, with the limited amount of stuff, I must conclude that the Gumby is hotter than the Bifrost G5 4490 or do I over simplify things?


----------



## rutter

I found the HDVA600 to be a quite bad amplifier, awful is not much of an exaggeration. Flat about sums it up, and straight-up incompatible with a low impedance headphone like the LCD-X (tried the X in addition to the HD800S with it). That thing got returned super fast. Not sure why it occurred to you to go for a Gumby subsequently though. If I'm not mistaken as a rule of thumb amplifiers make a bigger difference, although I've first-hand experience too in how DACs can be lacking or different (Questyle CMA400i DAC with Jot vs Mimby with Jot, the former clearly worse and less energetic, and the Gumby does something too but it's disappointingly little or subtle for $1250 versus $250, I have definitely missed the extra energy I must've gotten from the Mimby, perhaps tcellguy describes it somewhat accurately [it didn't feel wrong to me]). I've finally gotten around to being fully balanced, which increases space with the LCD-X and gives somewhat more bass thump, although overall it sounds a little questionable to me (that can change with time). Without comparing with another DAC I wouldn't know how much the Gumby contributes, but there is a significant difference in changing the input between RCA and XLR.

I definitely question how much of my money's worth I've gotten here but there's no turning back. I'm inclined to blame the Taurus MKII for shortcomings more, but I definitely wouldn't go around raving about the Gumby as some have. At least I have some peace of mind that I'm not missing out on euphoria. Quite the measuring stick.


----------



## earChasm

rutter said:


> I found the HDVA600 to be a quite bad amplifier, awful is not much of an exaggeration. Flat about sums it up, and straight-up incompatible with a low impedance headphone like the LCD-X (tried the X in addition to the HD800S with it). That thing got returned super fast. Not sure why it occurred to you to go for a Gumby subsequently though.


"I found the HDVA600 to be a quite bad amplifier".
Yeah, I heard (read) that a few times. In my experience tho it sounded best* for 1000E new (this amp is still very expensive it the Netherlands unless you find a good deal).

*Compared to the amps I heard when looking for a replacement. And yes, the "McIntosch" I tried sounded way better but it was close to 5K. The T+A also sounded very spacious and full bodied but was also 3 times the cost if I remember correctly. I don't want tubes so I decided to buy the HDVA600 and be done with it. 

"Not sure why it occurred to you to go for a Gumby subsequently though".
Well, I was using the 2Qute as a replacement for the Bifrost first but I hated it. It was way too bright. I did manage to tweak it a little so it wasn't awful right away but I still got ringing ears after 1 hour of listening. Since I did like the Bifrost at first I just decided to try out the Gumby. If I didn't like it I could send it back. So, I just jumped without thinking :.b

But...somehow it just clicked?!
Bob Marley, Carpenters, Eliza Filkyson, Jennifer Warnes, Emi Fujita, Kool and the Gang, MJ, Pat Benatar, Sade, Susan Wong, Toto, Suzanna Vega, Tracy Chapman, London Grammar, Katie McBride, Doe Maar and so on, and so on, just sound fantastic to me. I can listen for hours (4,6,8) and no fatigue at all. To be honest, a tad "more meat" on the bones and bass would be nice but not for double or triple the money.

Oh, I did borrow the Questyle CMA 600i from a friend to try out. If I liked it he was willing to trade it for my HDVA600 but I couldn't hear much of a different?! So I decided not to trade. I also heard 2 other HDVA600 setups and they didn't sounded as good to me as my own configuration (I'm being nice here because actually it sounded flat and grainy). So, I do (somehow) agree with you but don't think all HDVA600 setups sound bad or awful. And if they do, ok, may be my standard is very low but I don't care. I enjoy my music everyday and got plenty of goose bump moments to prove it :.b

Still appreciate your post tho


----------



## rutter

I got the Taurus MKII used for $1000, and might've even overpaid by about $200. iFi Pro iCan should be much better than the HDVA600 from what I hear. Violectric V281 used is another option. Then there's more obscure stuff like the Gustard H20 that you'll have people claiming is really good.

I think Questyle is crap too. Had the 400i at home, used 600i at a store. HDVA600 vs CMA600i is like being stuck between a rock and hard place. But if you are content with the Gumby + HDVA600 that's what matters.


----------



## RCBinTN

That's right, @rutter. What sounds good to you makes you happy. 
Unfortunately, it seems you haven't yet arrived there.
FWIW, I don't have faith in most Chinese equipment, based on build quality.
That's what I've learned on Head-Fi. YMMV of course.

This is an interesting discussion, because I have much the same experience as do y'all.

My first "real" headphones were the LCD-X.
They sound good with almost any upstream gear...loved 'em.
But, I was on a mission -- to drive both the LCD-X and the HD800, with one rig....kinda like a Mr. Phelps mission. 

I started w/ the DS BiFrost + Asgard2. The LCD-X were great, but way too bright for the HD800.
Changed to DS BiFrost + HDVA600.
Not enough punch, even with the HD800 (for which the HDVA600 is designed).

Then, I decided to go fully balanced.
Bought the DS Gungnir to complement the HDVA600. Better, but still not punchy enough.
BTW, I consider the HDVA to be a well-built amp, very smooth and clean sound, not bright for SS, actually quite warm.

The next move, nearly at the same time: Bryston BHA-1 amp and upgrade to MB Gungnir.

>>> It was like switching on the Great sound button......an amazing improvement.
The difference between the DS and MB Gungnir was stunning...
When the MB finally reached thermal equilibrium, the effect was, boom!
All the digital music now sounded like analog. No glare, no brightness, just pure music.

The Gungnir upgrade to MB stands as The Best $500 investment I've ever made in this hobby.
And, the BHA-1 amp was a significant upgrade to my rig. It is a very decent SS amp...(think Violectric V281).

So net, that's the rig I've stayed with. 
I am uber-happy with the GMB, even compared to the Yggdrasil, which I've heard many times at meets.

By the way, the GMB is not intended to be a flashy or bright DAC.
It is designed to perform D/A transforms, as accurately as possible, with 19-effective bits of resolution.

Happy Listening,
RCB


----------



## rutter

From what I've read the Taurus MKII is supposed to be [slightly] better than the BHA1. Then comes the V281.


----------



## Svatopluk (Aug 24, 2018)

rutter said:


> I found the HDVA600 to be a quite bad amplifier, awful is not much of an exaggeration. Flat about sums it up, and straight-up incompatible with a low impedance headphone like the LCD-X (tried the X in addition to the HD800S with it). That thing got returned super fast. Not sure why it occurred to you to go for a Gumby subsequently though. If I'm not mistaken as a rule of thumb amplifiers make a bigger difference, although I've first-hand experience too in how DACs can be lacking or different (Questyle CMA400i DAC with Jot vs Mimby with Jot, the former clearly worse and less energetic, and the Gumby does something too but it's disappointingly little or subtle for $1250 versus $250, I have definitely missed the extra energy I must've gotten from the Mimby, perhaps tcellguy describes it somewhat accurately [it didn't feel wrong to me]). I've finally gotten around to being fully balanced, which increases space with the LCD-X and gives somewhat more bass thump, although overall it sounds a little questionable to me (that can change with time). Without comparing with another DAC I wouldn't know how much the Gumby contributes, but there is a significant difference in changing the input between RCA and XLR.
> 
> I definitely question how much of my money's worth I've gotten here but there's no turning back. I'm inclined to blame the Taurus MKII for shortcomings more, but I definitely wouldn't go around raving about the Gumby as some have. At least I have some peace of mind that I'm not missing out on euphoria. Quite the measuring stick.





rutter said:


> I found the HDVA600 to be a quite bad amplifier, awful is not much of an exaggeration. Flat about sums it up, and straight-up incompatible with a low impedance headphone like the LCD-X (tried the X in addition to the HD800S with it). That thing got returned super fast. Not sure why it occurred to you to go for a Gumby subsequently though. If I'm not mistaken as a rule of thumb amplifiers make a bigger difference, although I've first-hand experience too in how DACs can be lacking or different (Questyle CMA400i DAC with Jot vs Mimby with Jot, the former clearly worse and less energetic, and the Gumby does something too but it's disappointingly little or subtle for $1250 versus $250, I have definitely missed the extra energy I must've gotten from the Mimby, perhaps tcellguy describes it somewhat accurately [it didn't feel wrong to me]). I've finally gotten around to being fully balanced, which increases space with the LCD-X and gives somewhat more bass thump, although overall it sounds a little questionable to me (that can change with time). Without comparing with another DAC I wouldn't know how much the Gumby contributes, but there is a significant difference in changing the input between RCA and XLR.
> 
> I definitely question how much of my money's worth I've gotten here but there's no turning back. I'm inclined to blame the Taurus MKII for shortcomings more, but I definitely wouldn't go around raving about the Gumby as some have. At least I have some peace of mind that I'm not missing out on euphoria. Quite the measuring stick.


I think you're being a little hard on the HDVA600, it was deisgned for Sennheiser's 300 Ohm headphones. Yes, it's lack of gain adjustment does make it "a one trick pony" but only when pertaining to lower impedance headphones. The only reason I sold mine was the fact that it did not pair well with the Utopia, as long as I used it with the HD800, it was fine.


----------



## rutter

It sounded a good deal worse to me with the HD800S than the Jotunheim. Flat and bland, didn't pick up on it excelling anywhere. Was pretty surprised.


----------



## GrussGott

tcellguy said:


> I bought a Modi multibit with the idea of trying out a Schiit multibit DAC and then upgrading later to the Gumby if it liked it. From what I had read I thought the Mimby would sound less digital, warmer, etc ... to my ear the Mimby is extremely bright with concomitantly increased bass slam.



For me the Mimby/Jot was not a good combination with the AFC, (not sure how close to the AFO), and, that said, the AFC was not my sound profile due to lack of bass and overall excitement so I returned them.  Now I've got the Eitr > Mimby > Jot with the ZMF Eikon and Atticus and it sounds phenomenal.  I need another 6-9 months of soak time, and then i'll likely upgrade to a GOTL and Gumby.


----------



## tcellguy (Aug 24, 2018)

I'm wondering if something might be wrong with my Mimby as I'm getting glassy, cold, sharp treble. I haven't had the courage to plug in my AFC with the Mimby. The AFO is much warmer and I'm still having to use the notch filters.

This is very strange to me as I've never experienced treble fatigue or anything close. I love bright / treble heavy headphones like the MSR7 and the AFC.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the Eikon and Atticus. I'd really like to hear either of those at some point. The closest to them I have is the Emu Teak and they sound amazing from the Jot + balanced DS DAC. I'm still getting a hard sound with the Mimby though.

I'm concerned that my Jotunheim isn't grounded as I've recently found that it hums if I touch the pot or case. Maybe there is some ground loop invoked when using the Mimby. However I don't have any problems using the iDSD BL as an external DAC to the Mimby is the only thing giving me problems.

Any idea if a Vali 2 would fix the treble issue?


----------



## Svatopluk

rutter said:


> It sounded a good deal worse to me with the HD800S than the Jotunheim. Flat and bland, didn't pick up on it excelling anywhere. Was pretty surprised.


Well maybe it's not quite on the level of the Ragnarok or V280, but I still think it's not that bad. Then again I'm 59 so maybe my hearing is not what it used to be.


----------



## rutter

Maybe you're content with music being more laid-back.


----------



## GrussGott

tcellguy said:


> II haven't had the courage to plug in my AFC with the Mimby.
> 
> The closest to them I have is the Emu Teak



I can say that the mimby/jot (no eitr) had downright painful treble with the AFC on tracks like Erykah Badu's On and On - there's a knocky instrument in that song (along with great subbass) that I now use to test headphones - on my TH-x00 the treble is also pretty horrible on the mimby/jot, but I love the bass so I dealt with it.  It's funny because on my B&W P7 wireless connected via aptX there's tons of bass and sub-bass, but the knocky instrument is far off in the distance.  On the TH-X00 it's pretty bright, but balanced out by the bass/sub-bass.  On the AFCs it's tear-off-your-head-kill-it-with-fire bad.

The ZMF closed dynamics are in a completely different universe of sound quality to me than any of those so I can't even compare, but bottom line is they sound awesome on the mimby / jot so I would expect a decent to large improvement on the Gumby.

I'll definitely be giving the Gumby a try ... i've considered going straight to the Yggy, but honestly I might not be that big of an audiophile so the Gumby is likely the sweet spot for me, and if not i can return it.  If so, it's upgradable so it beats out Soekris, Metrum and some others.


----------



## tcellguy

The AFO and the AFC basically have the same treble to my ear. They seem to differ in the sub-bass (AFC > AFO), mid-bass (AFO > AFC), and mids (AFC > AFO). So I imagine we are hearing the same thing. I just went back to the DS Jotunheim DAC and it's so much more comfortable. 

This experience has worried me about moving up the ladder towards the Gumby, but sounds like people feel it's more laid back vs. the Mimby so that might be better for me. I need to hear more DACs I guess.


----------



## earChasm

rutter said:


> I got the Taurus MKII used for $1000, and might've even overpaid by about $200. iFi Pro iCan should be much better than the HDVA600 from what I hear. Violectric V281 used is another option.


Yeah, but those are not the prices in the Netherlands and hardly any good stuff is offered 2nd hand :.)
Anyway, who knows what the future brings but for now I'm content...


----------



## rutter

Hardly any good stuff is offered second hand?


----------



## earChasm

rutter said:


> Hardly any good stuff is offered second hand?


Yeah, and I'm not talking about the selling section here. I don't feel comfortable buying something unseen and unheard so I buy all my expensive stuff in my own country :.)


----------



## artur9

tcellguy said:


> I'm currently pretty confused
> 
> I bought a Modi multibit with the idea of trying out a Schiit multibit DAC and then upgrading later to the Gumby if it liked it. From what I had read I thought the Mimby would sound less digital, warmer, etc.
> 
> So far my experience is hearing an increase in detail and depth, with increased sound stage vs. the Jotunheim DS DAC. However, to my ear the Mimby is extremely bright with concomitantly increased bass slam. It almost sounds V shaped if that's possible. I'm also getting a really strange cabin pressure sensation like wearing Bose noise cancelling headphones.




I'd reach out to Schiit because that sounds like a defective piece of equipment.


----------



## RCBinTN

Well, somehow I missed @rutter that you are using the Taurus MKII amp.
I've heard good comments about that amp, but again it's the Chinese thing (for me).

I have also heard good comments about the Mjolnir2 amp pairing well with both the LCD-X and HD800.
The tube option lets you tweak the sound to your liking.

I also forgot to mention that, on my journey, I wanted an amp that supports dual-balanced XLR outputs.
Due to the fact that my wife and I listen together - HD800 x2 - especially to DVD music performances.

The best I've heard the HD800 ever sound was at a Nashville meet when Dan Clark (of MrSpeakers) visited with his rig.
He had Yggdrasil (A1) with his Ragnarok and WA5 amps. Both amps sounded great, but the winner was the WA5. Very lush, accurate & fast sound.

But, to me, the GMB is not far behind the Yggy. It's a tremendous value for $1,250, and especially now with the Gen5 USB.

I am also interested in hearing some of the ZMF headphones y'all are talking about. Many good reports about their SQ.

Happy Listening!
RCB


----------



## tcellguy

artur9 said:


> I'd reach out to Schiit because that sounds like a defective piece of equipment.



Thanks. I'm sending them an email. I'd like to keep this DAC as the sound / price ratio is really amazing. Yet I'm concerned about damaging my hearing with whatever might be going on. 

One last question to the group: Could what I'm experiencing be related to the oversampling feature? Audirvana+ has an option to use software oversampling. I've tried this before with my Jotunhiem DS DAC or iDSD BL, but after a while it seems fatiguing at the highest frequencies and can introduce what sounds like distortion to me. It never really caused overt pain like the Mimby however.


----------



## Audiofiend1

Svatopluk said:


> If you don't mind my asking, what headphones are you using? I found the HA-1's DAC a little too bright on some recordings with the HD800. I actually preferred using the Gumby as opposed to the HA-1's Sabre DAC as the Gumby seemed to add both warmth and body to the mix.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of warm headphones like the LCD2 or MDR-Z7, but I can understand how they may be the way to go when using the HA-1's DAC.


I'm listening with the LCD-3, HD-800S and LCD-XC primarily.  I noted that i do prefer the gumby ever so slightly maybe 1% more, i just don't notice much of a difference between the two dacs.


----------



## JerryLeeds (Aug 26, 2018)

Is anyone using a portable music player as their source? What type of connection?

Reason that I'm asking is that I have an Opus#1S ... That has both optical and USB output ... The USB digital output seems to only work with my Questyle CMA400i ... I was wondering why it doesn't work with my Schiit DACs... Yaggy, Gumby and Mumby ...

Has anyone gotten their DAC to work from other portable devices via USB?

Thanks


----------



## RCBinTN

I have used my AK240 as a source to feed the GMB, via RCA cable. It sounded great.
Have not tried connecting via USB...don't have the right cable.


----------



## Paladin79

RCBinTN said:


> I have used my AK240 as a source to feed the GMB, via RCA cable. It sounded great.
> Have not tried connecting via USB...don't have the right cable.



I have already built USB type 2 A-B cables using American made wire, sometime soon I will experiment making mini and micro USB so if you know the type you need I may be able to send a sample. It is not something my company sells at this time other than pre-made and I am always interested in getting feedback. I build these for my own usage.


----------



## RCBinTN

Paladin79 said:


> I have already built USB type 2 A-B cables using American made wire, sometime soon I will experiment making mini and micro USB so if you know the type you need I may be able to send a sample. It is not something my company sells at this time other than pre-made and I am always interested in getting feedback. I build these for my own usage.



Thank you! It would be nice to have a back-up source for the Mac. 
Will check it out and let you know, Tom...appreciate the offer.


----------



## Paladin79

If they are common ends I may well be able to help. I strive for functionality as well as gorgeosity.

“Oh it was gorgeousness and *gorgeosity* made flesh. The trombones crunched redgold under my bed, and behind my gulliver the trumpets three-wise silverflamed, and there by the door the timps rolling through my guts and out again crunched like candy thunder.

Anthony Burgess


I always liked the line "crunched like candy thunder."


----------



## rutter

I've decided to downgrade. My basically new Gumby is up for sale as well as the Taurus MKII.


----------



## Dana Reed

tcellguy said:


> I'm wondering if something might be wrong with my Mimby as I'm getting glassy, cold, sharp treble. I haven't had the courage to plug in my AFC with the Mimby. The AFO is much warmer and I'm still having to use the notch filters.
> 
> This is very strange to me as I've never experienced treble fatigue or anything close. I love bright / treble heavy headphones like the MSR7 and the AFC.
> 
> ...


I also noticed recently that my Jotunheim was having hum when touching the case or the pot.  I opened the case and took a file to the keyhole slots connecting the cover to the rest of the case, and the hum went away


----------



## RCBinTN

rutter said:


> I've decided to downgrade. My basically new Gumby is up for sale as well as the Taurus MKII.



Give a listen to the Bryston BHA-1 amplifier........it's got plenty of energy for my taste!


----------



## Dan Lee

rutter said:


> I've decided to downgrade. My basically new Gumby is up for sale as well as the Taurus MKII.


What has led you to the decision to downgrade friend?  Both those devices the gumby and taurus could be considered end game equipment.  I hope its not cause of an unresolved noise issue or something like that cause there are quite a few fixes for those type of things.  I had a few of those issues which were driving me bat crap crazy for a while but have since been able to resolve for the most part.  If you need any help please feel free to ask me I will do my best to assist.


----------



## rutter (Aug 30, 2018)

Yea, that's partly why I got them. There were no technical issues. The sound was not really remotely worth it. I've been having vague doubts from the start, and I've documented being underwhelmed with the Gumby in this thread. Peace of mind having "end game equipment" finally notwithstanding, I decided to switch to the portable iFi Nano Black Label that I recently determined is a complete waste of money and lo and behold the sound wasn't much different. I know for a fact I got more energetic sound out of a Mimby and Jotunheim that was notably "clean" or "clear" too, which at this point I wonder if it isn't a function of the "energy". I was not about to commit >$2000 into a glorified Nano Black Label, and that's a little flattering, that I recently heard being outperformed by a laptop directly with an HD 650 that I was led to believe would be silly to listen to through a laptop. Mind you, I was fully balanced with the Gumby and Taurus MKII and the LCD-X. Ridiculous how little I got out of those very expensive pieces of equipment. Needless to say based on first-hand experience I wouldn't trust any reviewer or poster anymore. At best you just roll the dice based on what people claim, but in the context of this niche market do not be surprised by disappointment and highly questionable prices. The key part of "diminishing returns" should be returns, not diminishing. Fortunately there's value in reselling. I got a Jotunheim with a multibit DAC module and the rest of the money will go into things that are far more likely to be better and worth it. I've tried looking into alternatives but another aspect of this niche market is a lack of confidence-inspiring ones, not to mention the money involved with others.

I also wonder just how much a number of headphones being more difficult to drive simply in terms of needing more power obfuscates the value of equipment.


----------



## Dan Lee

Man I hate to hear that seeing as I just ordered a Gumby and MJ2 to run my LCD-Xs and Ether C Flows.  But then again there is always the part of this hobby that is hardest to account for which is each individuals own listening preferences.  I hope you find your endgame friend but until then I enjoy my Jot with multibit dac as well.  It is truly a fantastic amp dac for the price.


----------



## rutter

Well I can be in the minority of things so don't despair yet.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Which headphones did you own before the LCD-X?


----------



## rutter

I've had the HD 800S, Hifiman Edition X v2, and Aeon Flow Open at home. Listened to Focals and Audeze LCD-3 at a store (briefly Audeze LCD-4). Had the Hifiman HE-400i, not worth noting DT 770 at first. Recently briefly listened to HD 650.


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, if you tried them all with your setup and never found it likable enough to warrant such an expensive investment then a "downgrade" is a good idea. Imo the recent Modi Multibit is a damn good DAC.
I'm very happy with my setup. I liked the Black Widow v2 as well which I finally could here recently (230V versions are very very rare) but it actually made me hold onto the V281 closer. 

Didn't like the Jotunheim at all. Steely/edgy to me, not as refined as I would have liked. Had plenty of kick/stomp though but it seems to have a lot of fans. Have yet to find a Schiit amp that wins me over but their DAC line is outstanding.


----------



## rutter (Aug 30, 2018)

The LCD-X is the only headphone I tried with Mimby + Jot, Gumby + Jot, and most recently Gumby + Taurus MKII. It's the headphone I've decided to keep as well so that suffices for me. The HD 800S I tried with Gumby + Jot and Gumby + Taurus MKII. I got the Taurus MKII hoping to salvage the 800S but it did nothing for the 800S aside from taking it easier on my ears while helping the LCD-X with separation and soundstage relative to the Jot. But all this is in the context of a crappy Nano Black Label not being far from this stack, which I know is crappy due to agreeing with two other people that a freaking laptop sounds better with an HD 650 than that $200 charity purchase. Needless to say I'm pretty miffed with the nonsense people write. I'm going back to the Jot with a multibit DAC module that's hopefully very close to the Modi Multibit for the energy and perceived clarity, the energy that I lost with both the Gumby and the Taurus MKII without anything jaw-dropping in return but a huge hole in my bank account. This time I have a balanced cable for the LCD-X too so hopefully that helps with separation and space. Ideally I'd have gotten a V281 but in this niche market people clearly aren't afraid of taking pounds of flesh out of you for the privilege of having their products, not to mention I've seen a claim or two that the V281 and Taurus MKII are either pretty close to one another or that in some instances the Taurus MKII can be preferable.

I really don't understand what people hear in the Gumby. Funny thing is I read some pretty far-flung stuff in the Magni 3 thread. It's as if owners like to indulge in hyperbole.

You know, maybe I just lack some sort of zen feeling to appreciate things. But on the flipside people need to be sober too and counter-intuitive as it may be I now believe experience with lower end DACs and amps is paramount, granted sufficient driving capability. Make sure the true volume is the same, then decide whether you're getting your money's worth. What exactly you're getting over much cheaper alternatives. Some truly diminished returns could be worthwhile to some people, preposterous to others.


----------



## RCBinTN

rutter said:


> You know, maybe I just lack some sort of zen feeling to appreciate things.



Try 2-channel sound. Headphones aren't for everybody.


----------



## Dana Reed

rutter said:


> The LCD-X is the only headphone I tried with Mimby + Jot, Gumby + Jot, and most recently Gumby + Taurus MKII. It's the headphone I've decided to keep as well so that suffices for me. The HD 800S I tried with Gumby + Jot and Gumby + Taurus MKII. I got the Taurus MKII hoping to salvage the 800S but it did nothing for the 800S aside from taking it easier on my ears while helping the LCD-X with separation and soundstage relative to the Jot. But all this is in the context of a crappy Nano Black Label not being far from this stack, which I know is crappy due to agreeing with two other people that a freaking laptop sounds better with an HD 650 than that $200 charity purchase. Needless to say I'm pretty miffed with the nonsense people write. I'm going back to the Jot with a multibit DAC module that's hopefully very close to the Modi Multibit for the energy and perceived clarity, the energy that I lost with both the Gumby and the Taurus MKII without anything jaw-dropping in return but a huge hole in my bank account. This time I have a balanced cable for the LCD-X too so hopefully that helps with separation and space. Ideally I'd have gotten a V281 but in this niche market people clearly aren't afraid of taking pounds of flesh out of you for the privilege of having their products, not to mention I've seen a claim or two that the V281 and Taurus MKII are either pretty close to one another or that in some instances the Taurus MKII can be preferable.
> 
> I really don't understand what people hear in the Gumby. Funny thing is I read some pretty far-flung stuff in the Magni 3 thread. It's as if owners like to indulge in hyperbole.
> 
> You know, maybe I just lack some sort of zen feeling to appreciate things. But on the flipside people need to be sober too and counter-intuitive as it may be I now believe experience with lower end DACs and amps is paramount, granted sufficient driving capability. Make sure the true volume is the same, then decide whether you're getting your money's worth. What exactly you're getting over much cheaper alternatives. Some truly diminished returns could be worthwhile to some people, preposterous to others.


I have to admit not being able to hear the multibit magic as I've A/B tested M2U and mimby with lots of music, and other than mimby have higher output, I can't tell them apart once correcting for volume.
I got a gumby just so I'd have a quality DAC with 4V xlr out to feed to any high power amp so I can get the most out of my magnepans, as I've found the more gain I can get with them, the better.  I did also get a topping dx7s which also has 4V xlr out, so once I get a few cables so I can easily A/B those I'll see if I prefer one or the other between a 9038 ESS DAC and the Gumby
This has all been a fun hobby where the spending will have to slow down soon.  I had just held on to those KLH speakers and JVC receiver for so long, I went a bit crazy once I replaced them after 25 years.
Expensive, but hey, I'm not looking at a Chord Dave, or any McIntosh stuff, so it's basically free...


----------



## Dan Lee

rutter said:


> The LCD-X is the only headphone I tried with Mimby + Jot, Gumby + Jot, and most recently Gumby + Taurus MKII. It's the headphone I've decided to keep as well so that suffices for me. The HD 800S I tried with Gumby + Jot and Gumby + Taurus MKII. I got the Taurus MKII hoping to salvage the 800S but it did nothing for the 800S aside from taking it easier on my ears while helping the LCD-X with separation and soundstage relative to the Jot. But all this is in the context of a crappy Nano Black Label not being far from this stack, which I know is crappy due to agreeing with two other people that a freaking laptop sounds better with an HD 650 than that $200 charity purchase. Needless to say I'm pretty miffed with the nonsense people write. I'm going back to the Jot with a multibit DAC module that's hopefully very close to the Modi Multibit for the energy and perceived clarity, the energy that I lost with both the Gumby and the Taurus MKII without anything jaw-dropping in return but a huge hole in my bank account. This time I have a balanced cable for the LCD-X too so hopefully that helps with separation and space. Ideally I'd have gotten a V281 but in this niche market people clearly aren't afraid of taking pounds of flesh out of you for the privilege of having their products, not to mention I've seen a claim or two that the V281 and Taurus MKII are either pretty close to one another or that in some instances the Taurus MKII can be preferable.
> 
> I really don't understand what people hear in the Gumby. Funny thing is I read some pretty far-flung stuff in the Magni 3 thread. It's as if owners like to indulge in hyperbole.
> 
> You know, maybe I just lack some sort of zen feeling to appreciate things. But on the flipside people need to be sober too and counter-intuitive as it may be I now believe experience with lower end DACs and amps is paramount, granted sufficient driving capability. Make sure the true volume is the same, then decide whether you're getting your money's worth. What exactly you're getting over much cheaper alternatives. Some truly diminished returns could be worthwhile to some people, preposterous to others.


Just because Imcurious now were you running  your headphones through the single ended output taurus and Jot cause I have heard a lot of people in multiple different threads say that these high end balanced schiit dacs and amps and I imagine the Taurus as well do not give anywhere near the sound quality they are capable of when run fully balanced as the single ended outputs where basically put there as a courtesy.  So that could have been something but then again maybe not.  Also you said you heard LCD-3's and LCD-4's whats your opinion on those as compared to the LCD-X which I absolutely love.


----------



## RCBinTN

In my experience, balanced DAC -> amp -> HPs clearly beats SE.

And, I have experience with LCD-X, 3 and 4. The LCD-4 are superior. 
I loved the LCD-X for several years, but the LCD-4 are much more resolving.

FWIW and YMMV, as always.
RCB


----------



## Hyp0xia (Aug 30, 2018)

rutter said:


> It's as if owners like to indulge in hyperbole.



Your posts are bound to be controversial here, but I find your honesty with yourself refreshing. The only reason I still have my Gumby is that I really like having the three sets of outputs, but, if I could go back to my return window one year ago, I think I would rather have my $1,250 back and a cheap DAC or DAC/amp combo. I recently bought an Aune T1se for $170 and I keep staring at my $2,250 stack of gear and lamenting internally. Don't get me wrong: The Gumby sounds great, but I don't hear the differences between DACs. With amps, it's at least easy to say whether or not an amplifier is properly driving your headphone. Headphones are where the real difference is. I think the only piece of gear I have that hasn't felt like a stomach-churning waste of money nearly two years later is my DT 1990 Pro. I think most people just enjoy the mythology of the hobby and the engineering and design that goes into the products (whether there's an audible difference or not).


----------



## RCBinTN

I suspect you will love the Gumby + MJ2 stack, @Dan Lee.
Remember, (at least) the Gumby requires break-in time. It gets much better after ~100-150 hours warmed up...

Happy Listening!


----------



## Insidious Meme

I'm not sure why Rutter's posts in the end should bother anyone. He made a choice based on his own values on what he wants and isn't that what we all want to do in the end? I'm perfectly happy with my Gungnir as he is as happy with his decision to move on from his.


----------



## artur9

I got my Gumby because I loved my Bifrost/UberFrost.  The added detail the Gumby gives over the Bifrost is readily apparent, I think.

When I had everything set up in my 2channel system it sounded sublime.  But I just moved so I'm suffering withdrawal.


----------



## Dan Lee

RCBinTN said:


> In my experience, balanced DAC -> amp -> HPs clearly beats SE.
> 
> And, I have experience with LCD-X, 3 and 4. The LCD-4 are superior.
> I loved the LCD-X for several years, but the LCD-4 are much more resolving.
> ...


thanks for your response I really wanna get my hands on a pair of the 4s but thats gonna be down the line a bit.  how would you say 3's compare to X's


----------



## Dan Lee

RCBinTN said:


> I suspect you will love the Gumby + MJ2 stack, @Dan Lee.
> Remember, (at least) the Gumby requires break-in time. It gets much better after ~100-150 hours warmed up...
> 
> Happy Listening!


yes I have heard about the warm up time and to leave it on all the time.  I believe I will like this pairing as well and am quite looking forward to all the different sound signatures possible with tube rolling.  I dont even have them yet but have already started a collection of tubes haha.


----------



## Dr.J

Hello everyone & not to hijack this thread, but ....

I’m somewhat new to digital, been an analogue guy for many decades. Nevertheless, I now own a Schiit Gungnir and am surprised by how much better it sounds than my CD player, alone. I’d like to stream music through it, am hoping I can achieve this with a raspberry pi. I had focused on Tidal, but see there’s a trend towards the MQA format that Schiit doesn’t support. 24/192, if I understand this correctly, is the high res format used by scda recordings, which sounds promising! Given this reality, is there a better streaming source for this format than Tidal, one that’s ideally suited for our Dacs?

Thanks,

John


----------



## Dana Reed

Dr.J said:


> Hello everyone & not to hijack this thread, but ....
> 
> I’m somewhat new to digital, been an analogue guy for many decades. Nevertheless, I now own a Schiit Gungnir and am surprised by how much better it sounds than my CD player, alone. I’d like to stream music through it, am hoping I can achieve this with a raspberry pi. I had focused on Tidal, but see there’s a trend towards the MQA format that Schiit doesn’t support. 24/192, if I understand this correctly, is the high res format used by scda recordings, which sounds promising! Given this reality, is there a better streaming source for this format than Tidal, one that’s ideally suited for our Dacs?
> 
> ...


Just Tidal software alone will pass 96/24 pcm to the DAC.  So I don’t think it’s a realistic limitation that you don’t get what MQA claims you need an MQA DAC for (192/24).  Besides,  I’d eat a hat if anyone can distinguish a 192/24 downsampled to 96/24.  Further, MQA is inherently lossy,  so what’s the point (when it comes to audiophile nervosa)?


----------



## rutter (Aug 30, 2018)

RCBinTN said:


> Try 2-channel sound. Headphones aren't for everybody.



Headphones aren't for the deaf. Accordingly, I have I think reasonable expectations.



Dan Lee said:


> Just because Imcurious now were you running  your headphones through the single ended output taurus and Jot cause I have heard a lot of people in multiple different threads say that these high end balanced schiit dacs and amps and I imagine the Taurus as well do not give anywhere near the sound quality they are capable of when run fully balanced as the single ended outputs where basically put there as a courtesy.  So that could have been something but then again maybe not.  Also you said you heard LCD-3's and LCD-4's whats your opinion on those as compared to the LCD-X which I absolutely love.



Fully balanced, single-ended output with XLR cables, and once I might've tried fully single-ended. I didn't sell for a lack of trying, and the Gumby got its 100-150 hours in the first week. I kept it on for about six weeks. The LCD-3 is terrible value at $1950 imo. I had a chance to get B-stock at $1250 and still didn't do it. That muddy, liquidy, syrupy, gooey, whatever you want to call it sound is not for me. As I was very unlikely to spend $3k-4k for a headphone I briefly listened to the LCD-4 out of curiosity with a CMA600i, which I'm not a fan of either. The one thing that really made an impression on me is that it's a much harder to drive headphone than the others I've tried. Then I scratched my head and moved on.

Really, the only time I thought I got something decent out of the things I tried and purchased is when I used Sonarworks EQ with the LCD-X through Mimby + Jotunheim. Decent, mind you. In terms of value the Sonarworks profile for the LCD-X, which should be largely replicable for free, crushes each and every headphone, dac, amplifier, and cable. Perhaps the Magni 3 is somewhat close? The Jotunheim is definitely good value, the Modi Multibit may very well be too given it has made a significant positive difference over other DACs I've tried (arguably even the Gumby, talk about value), but it doesn't have that bang for the buck. At $220 the Hifiman HE400i headphone is in the conversation. Spent $55 for the basic Sonarworks True-Fi app when arguably it shouldn't even be a thing for multiple reasons. Also, all you do is click a button basically. The facepalm button. I hope that when I get the Jot with the multibit DAC module it'll sound like the pairing I had and using the balanced output will somewhat help with separation and space, though I'm ready to be disappointed again and know that ultimately I'll be settling. I'm passing time like an existential kidney stone.



Hyp0xia said:


> Your posts are bound to be controversial here, but I find your honesty with yourself refreshing. The only reason I still have my Gumby is that I really like having the three sets of outputs, but, if I could go back to my return window one year ago, I think I would rather have my $1,250 back and a cheap DAC or DAC/amp combo. I recently bought an Aune T1se for $170 and I keep staring at my $2,250 stack of gear and lamenting internally. Don't get me wrong: The Gumby sounds great, but I don't hear the differences between DACs. With amps, it's at least easy to say whether or not an amplifier is properly driving your headphone. Headphones are where the real difference is. I think the only piece of gear I have that hasn't felt like a stomach-churning waste of money nearly two years later is my DT 1990 Pro. I think most people just enjoy the mythology of the hobby and the engineering and design that goes into the products (whether there's an audible difference or not).



Yet people disagree. That's very interesting. One very good thing about the Gumby is that it has relatively strong resale value. You should be able to sell at 80%, although I'm not sure yours has gen 5 USB input. Still worth a try if you mean it. I'd definitely sell before a second whatever board is announced.

PS

Both buyers of the Gumby and the Taurus MKII are satisfied. Meanwhile, for the same shipping price in 2018, I have to wait a week for Schiit's exclusive snail mail to deliver the smaller Jotunheim. Apparently a diet of combo burritos isn't such a great idea in practice. I should be thanking my lucky star that the Jot was at least in stock. I got burned for $100 as Schiit didn't update the displayed availability status when I ordered the Gumby so Benjamin came straight out of the 18th century to deliver the Gumby two weeks later.


----------



## earChasm

To balance the last few posts, here is something from a happy Gungnir MB owner :.)

Yesterday I borrowed the Chord Qutest from my brother and it took me only 2 songs to be done with it. First thing was the treble in MJ - Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' and Emilie Simon - Flowers Never Die. Like I said before, I am treble sensitive and when I can't finish these songs without flinching, I'm done.

The 2nd thing was the way the drums sounded. I grew up in a musical familly so I know how (some) instruments sound. IMHO, the Gumby sounded closer to the real thing although my brother didn't agree. Funny thing is, regarding the piano our opinions were reversed. 

Anyhow, after yesterday I enjoy my setup even more. My Gungnir is going nowhere :.b

My brother says the same about his (treble hot) setup. He also liked the 2Qute which I also disliked. Funny how everone perceives sound differently...


----------



## rutter

I wonder what an $8k DAC sounds like. Let's call it morbid curiosity. There's a guy who splits them in divisions. The Gumby is in the second or third. One in the first is $8k. If I read something about how primordial its blackness is I'll laugh. Anyone heard the Sennheiser headphone that costs like $70,000 and comes with its own amplifier? I know a few Head-Fiers have given it a listen, one on the West Coast. Might as well wonder what the pinnacle is at this point.


----------



## artur9

Personally, I don't think there's much in that kind of speculation.  Like everything else (marathons, wine tasting, car driving) one has to work oneself up to that level.

Going from earbuds to the most expensive system in the world in one step, you'll say, "Meh."  Especially since so much music is mastered so poorly these days.


----------



## RCBinTN (Aug 31, 2018)

Dan Lee said:


> thanks for your response I really wanna get my hands on a pair of the 4s but thats gonna be down the line a bit.  how would you say 3's compare to X's



I agree with @rutter that the LCD-3 aren't for me either. Too dark & veiled in the mids/treble.
The nice bass on the LCD-3 is what got everybody buying them, back in the early days, for rock music.

I have a similar impression for the LCD-2.... and, the LCD-XC was just too boomy in the low end.

That's why I preferred the LCD-X for many years - they have the most neutral sound from an Audez'e can, until the LCD-4 came along.

The fact that the LCD-4 are more difficult to drive is a good thing, in my book. Gives the amp more room to breathe.
With the LCD-X, my Bryston was barely breaking a sweat. Now it's operating in a better volume range.

Congrats on the sale of your gear, @rutter - you certainly had them priced attractively!
And, thanks for the reco on Sonarworks...I've heard good things about it from other folks like @sheldaze.

Just one other comment here, which I think I read from @earChasm as well - the music genres may play a part in which DAC a person prefers.
I find the Gumby shines on well-engineered/recorded music (16/44.1 FLAC is fine!) -- and especially acoustic & jazz where you can really hear the instruments.
I love the sound of a well-tuned drum kit played with an expert's touch!

I have just a few 24/96 and 24/192 recordings from HDTracks. Some sound a bit better than 16/44.1, others not so much.
I still think the SQ goes back to the original recording quality.

Great discussion here, folks!
Cheers,
RCB

ps. The best advice is...listen before you buy! Headphone meets are valuable. Much of this hobby is personal preference which is, of course, subjective.


----------



## Dan Lee

rutter said:


> I wonder what an $8k DAC sounds like. Let's call it morbid curiosity. There's a guy who splits them in divisions. The Gumby is in the second or third. One in the first is $8k. If I read something about how primordial its blackness is I'll laugh. Anyone heard the Sennheiser headphone that costs like $70,000 and comes with its own amplifier? I know a few Head-Fiers have given it a listen, one on the West Coast. Might as well wonder what the pinnacle is at this point.


regarding that insanely expensive sennheiser unit your reffering to called the Orpheus I have read quite a few reviews from reputable reviewers that have said that The LCD-4 and the Utopia would compete with it and thats all that I need to hear to know that is the absolute extreme of diminishing returns haha.


----------



## Dana Reed

Dan Lee said:


> regarding that insanely expensive sennheiser unit your reffering to called the Orpheus I have read quite a few reviews from reputable reviewers that have said that The LCD-4 and the Utopia would compete with it and thats all that I need to hear to know that is the absolute extreme of diminishing returns haha.


You know that you won't be able to truly hear the difference in the Orpheus unless you pair it with this DAC and CD transport
http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/select-pricing/
http://www.msbtechnology.com/transports/select-transport-pricing/


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## Dan Lee

I did not know that but in truth I doesnt much matter as the 30-50k price tag for the Orpheus set up will forever be out of my price range haha.  So not only will I likely never hear the Orpheus from any DAC in existence chances are less likely that I will hear it from those components either.


----------



## RCBinTN (Aug 31, 2018)

Dana Reed said:


> You know that you won't be able to truly hear the difference in the Orpheus unless you pair it with this DAC and CD transport
> http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/select-pricing/
> http://www.msbtechnology.com/transports/select-transport-pricing/



Yeah, that gear is similar to what (the legendary) David Mahler used when he performed his "Battle of the Flagships" reviews, now sadly out of date.
His source was worth something like $50K...
http://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/dacv-pricing/

It's still a very interesting thread to read (David's HP comments are quite in-depth). Many of the HP's he reviewed are still on the market today.
This was the first thread I read, when I joined Head-Fi.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared.634201/

Edit - the links in David's thread no longer work, after Head-Fi transitioned to the new internet platform.


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## Dan Lee

Oh my god so he would have paid 50k for the orpheus set up and and another 50k for the source if I understand that right?  Holy crap that gave me litteral goose bumps just thinking about the insanity of that.  Its a weird feeling knowing how utterly ridiculous something is but at the same time being an audiophile I still really wanna hear that set up haha.


----------



## RCBinTN

Yes.....unfortunately! I think that may be why he no longer reviews HP's, and won't upgrade his original list to current. It's just too expensive.
If you read his introduction, he owned all that equipment personally to avoid bias from loaners, etc. That is noteworthy, IMO. 
He did rate the Orpheus as the #1 system for sound BTW.


----------



## rutter

RCBinTN said:


> I agree with @rutter that the LCD-3 aren't for me either. Too dark & veiled in the mids/treble.
> The nice bass on the LCD-3 is what got everybody buying them, back in the early days, for rock music.
> 
> I have a similar impression for the LCD-2.... and, the LCD-XC was just too boomy in the low end.
> ...



Its inexplicable to me how the Gumby retains its value. Most things, including expensive amplifiers, lose a lot of value when resold. The Gumby gets sold for $1000 regularly. When I saw that I did a double-take, and that was before I had listened to it. I felt a little uneasy tacking on an extra $20 to cover shipping but that wasn't much of an issue apparently. A guy had sold a Gumby he had for months for $1000 + shipping although he got pretty greedy and initially had it at like $1070 + shipping. The Taurus MKII sells for around $800 here despite being $1500, which may have been a recent reduction from $1800 new. I had to pay $1000 for it from audiogon and given I wasn't the original owner I didn't try asking for more. Others could push this price though, seems low on Head-Fi. As for music genres and the quality of music, that sort of qualification for when something becomes apparently good is unacceptable to me. I could give music quality the benefit of the doubt that somehow a more expensive device would make it sound even better but that is uncertain. I have listened to Tidal and I be damned if I found a big difference between the stuff I find on youtube and it, and it turned neither the CMA600i nor a number of headphones into sound that stopped me in my tracks. I've tried some other stuff at home as well although not of the highest quality.

Apparently Sonarworks is really inconsistent with its EQ profiles. It's untouchable value for the LCD-X, good for the HD800S, but for some of the less expensive headphones it appears to be worthless. It might not do much for the Focal Clear either. The trial is very painless and convenient though.


----------



## RCBinTN (Aug 31, 2018)

Sonarworks was suggested to me to improve the HD800 sound.
There is a group dedicated to make the HD800 sound their best....Sonarworks is just one tweak they are using.
I haven't tried it yet, or any hardware mods either.

Instead, I've been using the EQ feature in JRiver. It includes a "preamp" control and 10-band EQ.
With those basic controls, I was able to make both the LCD-4 and HD800 sound better.

One easy improvement was to reduce the input to the EQ - via the preamp control - by 8-9 dB.
That gave the Bryston amp more breathing room....made a nice difference especially on the HD800.


----------



## bagwell359 (Sep 2, 2018)

Hyp0xia said:


> Your posts are bound to be controversial here, but I find your honesty with yourself refreshing. The only reason I still have my Gumby is that I really like having the three sets of outputs, but, if I could go back to my return window one year ago, I think I would rather have my $1,250 back and a cheap DAC or DAC/amp combo. I recently bought an Aune T1se for $170 and I keep staring at my $2,250 stack of gear and lamenting internally. Don't get me wrong: The Gumby sounds great, but I don't hear the differences between DACs. With amps, it's at least easy to say whether or not an amplifier is properly driving your headphone. Headphones are where the real difference is. I think the only piece of gear I have that hasn't felt like a stomach-churning waste of money nearly two years later is my DT 1990 Pro. I think most people just enjoy the mythology of the hobby and the engineering and design that goes into the products (whether there's an audible difference or not).



I starting buying expensive cartridges in the late 70's.  Sonus Blue->Fidelity Research->Carnegie->Koetsu->Lyra Parnassus-Koetsu and built up a 12k sized LP collection.  I hated digital from Day 1.  Around '05 I heard a few DAC/transports in the +$20K range, and they were pretty good - better than the two Sony players I had during those years, but no way was I getting rid of my vinyl playback.  Then a buddy lent me the Gumby, and some audiophile CD's.  I played 1000 cuts, only 2 that had any hint of digitalitis.  Then I got a V90 and dragonfly DAC's to see if it was the remasters and better recordings, or the DAC.  It was both.  The Gumby was well ahead of my Sony 555 or those other DAC's.  It had the multibit. and I got that.  I also put it up against the Yggy, and found the Gumby to be a bit less perfect, but a bit more listenable.  I seriously doubt I'll ever by another one.

I agree that there is a tremendous amount of ego, pride, and the "emperor has no clothes" things going on in this hobby.  I started to break out away from it when I saw my first $5k power cord in '96.


----------



## Dan Lee

RCBinTN said:


> Yes.....unfortunately! I think that may be why he no longer reviews HP's, and won't upgrade his original list to current. It's just too expensive.
> If you read his introduction, he owned all that equipment personally to avoid bias from loaners, etc. That is noteworthy, IMO.
> He did rate the Orpheus as the #1 system for sound BTW.


WOW that is just incredible man.  I mean good for hime that he could afford that system cause I have to imagine that it would sound absolutely out of this world but man Im gonna be thinking bout that story for a while cause that is just simply unreal that someone actually owns something like that and gets to use it on a regular basis.  I mean how could you possible listen to music on anything else after that.  So crazy.  Thanks for sharing that.


----------



## Dan Lee

rutter said:


> Its inexplicable to me how the Gumby retains its value. Most things, including expensive amplifiers, lose a lot of value when resold. The Gumby gets sold for $1000 regularly. When I saw that I did a double-take, and that was before I had listened to it. I felt a little uneasy tacking on an extra $20 to cover shipping but that wasn't much of an issue apparently. A guy had sold a Gumby he had for months for $1000 + shipping although he got pretty greedy and initially had it at like $1070 + shipping. The Taurus MKII sells for around $800 here despite being $1500, which may have been a recent reduction from $1800 new. I had to pay $1000 for it from audiogon and given I wasn't the original owner I didn't try asking for more. Others could push this price though, seems low on Head-Fi. As for music genres and the quality of music, that sort of qualification for when something becomes apparently good is unacceptable to me. I could give music quality the benefit of the doubt that somehow a more expensive device would make it sound even better but that is uncertain. I have listened to Tidal and I be damned if I found a big difference between the stuff I find on youtube and it, and it turned neither the CMA600i nor a number of headphones into sound that stopped me in my tracks. I've tried some other stuff at home as well although not of the highest quality.
> 
> Apparently Sonarworks is really inconsistent with its EQ profiles. It's untouchable value for the LCD-X, good for the HD800S, but for some of the less expensive headphones it appears to be worthless. It might not do much for the Focal Clear either. The trial is very painless and convenient though.


Man I just feel bad that you were unable to experience the difference in sound from tidal to youtube or other MP3s.  Cause even though the difference in their cd quality streams isnt an out of this world difference I could still tell that it was at the very least cleaner sounding, but what really blew me away was Tidals MQA files.  I mean the difference I heard their even from the CD quality music was just unbelieveable.  I really went in thinking I wouldnt notice anything too but it was immediately apparent to me that the MQA format was just unreal sounding and so clear and grainless.  And at the time I was using my LCD-Xs and a CMA400i and a Jotunheim with multibit module.  Was running balanced as well if that makes any difference.

As far as sonarworks goeas are you saying that you like what it did to your LCD-X and if so could you maybe give me a short description of how it changed it cause I have been curious about what they do for a while but love my LCDs as is and would hate to change them and never be able to get back to the old sound if I wanted too.


----------



## Dan Lee

RCBinTN said:


> Sonarworks was suggested to me to improve the HD800 sound.
> There is a group dedicated to make the HD800 sound their best....Sonarworks is just one tweak they are using.
> I haven't tried it yet, or any hardware mods either.
> 
> ...


utilizing J rivers EQ have you noticed any added distortion or noise to your system as I have found whenever I have used EQ's and have tried quite a few they seem to always add unwanted noise or distortion and I would love to find one that doesnt do that.  Of course it could just be that I am making the wrong adjustments or doing something else wrong but not really sure on that front.


----------



## Dan Lee

bagwell359 said:


> I starting buying expensive cartridges in the late 70's.  Sonus Blue->Fidelity Research->Carnegie->Koetsu->Lyra Parnassus-Koetsu and built up a 12k sized LP collection.  I hated digital from Day 1.  Around '05 I heard a few DAC/transports in the +$20K range, and they were pretty good - better than the two Sony players I had during those years, but no way was I getting rid of my vinyl playback.  Then a buddy lent me the Gumby, and some audiophile CD's.  I played 1000 cuts, only 2 that had any hint of digitalitis.  Then I got a V90 and dragonfly DAC's to see if it was the remasters and better recordings, or the DAC.  It was both.  The Gumby was well ahead of my Sony 555 or those other DAC's.  It had the multibit. and I got that.  I also put it up against the Yggy, and found the Gumby to be a bit less perfect, but a bit more listenable.  I seriously doubt I'll ever by another one.
> 
> I agree that there is a tremendous amount of ego, pride, and the "emperor has no clothes" things going on in this hobby.  I started to break out away from it when I saw my first $5k power cord in '96.


Holy crap a $5k power chord.  Yeah their is definitely some ridiculous bastards out there that truly dont give a rats ass about the hobby but instead just want to make money off people who are truly trying to find more ways to enjoy what they love and anyone who preys upon that is an all around peice of crap in my book.  Its sad that we have to try and navigate that type of crap when doing things we love.


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## rutter (Sep 2, 2018)

bagwell359 said:


> I agree that there is a tremendous amount of ego, pride, and the "emperor has no clothes" things going on in this hobby.  I started to break out away from it when I saw my first $5k power cord in '96.



You what? Did you just see it or did you use it?

Dan Lee, Sonarworks has a painless free trial. Go to their website, download it. All you do is select the headphone and click a button to enable and disable the automatic EQ. There's either an option to lower db in order to prevent distortion or a slider depending on which app you try. As far as I'm concerned it's a must for the LCD-X unless people manually apply similar EQ.


----------



## rutter

By the way, Dan Lee, what do you think about the sound quality of this youtube "video"? Excuse the song.


----------



## bagwell359

rutter said:


> You what? Did you just see it or did you use it?
> 
> Dan Lee, Sonarworks has a painless free trial. Go to their website, download it. All you do is select the headphone and click a button to enable and disable the automatic EQ. There's either an option to lower db in order to prevent distortion or a slider depending on which app you try. As far as I'm concerned it's a must for the LCD-X unless people manually apply similar EQ.



Interesting note on Sonarworks.

I saw/heard 5 of them at a dealers home (he ran his business out of his home).  He also had Blue Circle stuff which was decent, and the first place I heard the Verity Parsifal V1 of the best speaker I ever owned (v3).  His room wasn't set up at all IMO.  The power cords were sort of a translucent white with a multi colored rainbow effect - can't remember the brand.

Power cords in particular drive me nuts.  You've got a generator a few miles away, potentially oxygen tarnished copper, or aluminum house wiring.  Maybe only running 114 or 115 VAC, with out of phase plugs, or noisy/dirty circuits hooked up elsewhere in the house.  Yeah a 2 meter run of fancy copper is going to fix all that.... 

He also sold the "Crown Jewel" cartridge for $2700, which was a repacked Shelter 501 that was about $800 back then.  I spilled the beans on this guy about 3 days later - probably in the audio newsgroup and among my audiophile pals.. made him and my friend that brought me over real mad, but, everyone else that got steered away were happy to sidestep.

Now I have heard a few cables (speaker, power, and RCA) that made a difference - usually with very weird load speakers like the Scintilla.  But run of the mill 8 ohm stuff and stable electronics?  Yup lots of opinions when people can see changes being made and knowing the price tags, not so many when the changes are blind.  

I have nice cables O2 free, nice terminations - and I sleep just fine at night w/o the latest Nordstrom or Cardas cable.  Kills me to see people putting $300 cables on $500 headphones.  By a $800 headphone and use some EQ if needed and esp go to XLR if your amp works better with XLR than RCA.


----------



## rutter

bagwell359 said:


> Yup lots of opinions when people can see changes being made and knowing the price tags, not so many when the changes are blind.



This.


----------



## GrussGott (Sep 2, 2018)

bagwell359 said:


> Power cords in particular drive me nuts.  You've got a generator a few miles away, potentially oxygen tarnished copper, or aluminum house wiring.  Maybe only running 114 or 115 VAC, with out of phase plugs, or noisy/dirty circuits hooked up elsewhere in the house.  Yeah a 2 meter run of fancy copper is going to fix all that....



To be fair, the idea isn't that a power cord will "fix all that", it's that the cord will minimize it as much as possible given it's AC power and the cord is first few feet from a component's point of view (Kinda like ketchup with mediocre beef).

Anybody that's done any amount of listening knows that some days things sound stellar and the next day, same tracks, not as good for some reason, so there's 3 possibilities: you changed, the environment changed somehow, or the power changed.

For those that do a lot listening throughout the day, the last possibility is interesting because many people notice patterns such as, "it sounds better after 8pm", etc and that's where power regenerators come in.  So if someone was going to spend $5k to minimize power variance, that's probably a better use of the money.

In any event, any reputable dealer of any niche equipment offers 15 or 30 day free in-home trials - so whether it's a power cord or a regenerator or a Gumby: try it, if you don't like it return it.

People stress way too much over how much X or Y costs:  If it's a reputable dealer, try in-home and if you don't like it, return it.

If the dealer or manufacturer doesn't offer free in-home trials, then don't buy from that dealer.


----------



## rutter (Sep 2, 2018)

The point is two-fold- the dealer isn't giving you an actually fair price and the product doesn't do enough to justify the price. If you could test a whole bunch of stuff simultaneously to compare, especially without price tags at first, then you'd be able to make a better decision as a buyer. But just because there are return windows doesn't mean people are able to judge well, nor does it justify what producers may be doing. In the case of Schiit, by the way, they have probably the worst return policy to go along with the backorders and shipping.

Anyone's sound go to hell before 8 pm, by the way? A $5000 fix for that? I've listened throughout the day in a place that apparently induces background noise in the especially sensitive Jotunheim and never noticed anything of the sort.


----------



## bagwell359

GrussGott said:


> To be fair, the idea isn't that a power cord will "fix all that", it's that the cord will minimize it as much as possible given it's AC power and the cord is first few feet from a component's point of view (Kinda like ketchup with mediocre beef).



That's a lot of potential editing for a hunk of copper.  My experiences with AC power is that the weakest link will always show.

Now about a year after this $5k wire episode, I replaced the wiring from my fuse box to the plug my amp and then my pre-amp were hooked too.  The wiring was about 40 years old with lots of O2 exposure, that made a lot bigger diff than all of the power cords I tried during those years - including a couple of $500 ones.  At other times (like absolute polarity, or A/B of cartridge step-ups other people and I heard a lot of differences - so I'll never say "x never matters" - however it is very easy to be swayed by ego, emotional and financial investment, etc.



> Anybody that's done any amount of listening knows that some days things sound stellar and the next day, same tracks, not as good for some reason, so there's 3 possibilities: you changed, the environment changed somehow, or the power changed.



Actually for me that usually humidity changes.  high humidity just about everything sounds like crap to me - even heavy AC only helps a bit.  Probably because I get migraines and have Felix Unger sinuses!



> For those that do a lot listening throughout the day, the last possibility is interesting because many people notice patterns such as, "it sounds better after 8pm", etc and that's where power regenerators come in.  So if someone was going to spend $5k to minimize power variance, that's probably a better use of the money.



Yes, for sure 8-10:30 local time is when things are usually best - but not always I have an analog VAC meter that's very sensitive, and things start getting meh under 117 VAC, but some times in the day I get flat 120 with no deviations - that's the best.



> In any event, any reputable dealer of any niche equipment offers 15 or 30 day free in-home trials - so whether it's a power cord or a regenerator or a Gumby: try it, if you don't like it return it.



Oh sure, but as an ex high end sales guy there is a tremendous pressure put on buyers by themselves to discern minute differences as it helps justify the costs to themselves.  No sales guy/owner is going to talk them out of it, or strong arm either.  Seen the same thing in high end wine tastings, and high end cars. 



> People stress way too much over how much X or Y costs:  If it's a reputable dealer, try in-home and if you don't like it, return it.
> 
> If the dealer or manufacturer doesn't offer free in-home trials, then don't buy from that dealer.



Also dealers shut off people that return too much stuff.  All the guys that I invested with or owned shops are retired, or went much bigger time than the level I play in nowadays. 

Depends on where you are in the socio-economic cycle, and your age.  14 years ago dropping $8k on a pair of speakers wasn't a big deal for me, so yeah.  But now I'm retired due to health issues living decently but carefully - and I have to be a "biter" to get into better levels of equipment - no list prices for me (cept my Schiit stuff).   Used and stuff on sale is my usual thing.


----------



## GrussGott (Sep 2, 2018)

bagwell359 said:


> Also dealers shut off people that return too much stuff.  .... I have to be a "biter" to get into better levels of equipment - no list prices for me (cept my Schiit stuff).   Used and stuff on sale is my usual thing.



That's why I like the PS Audio business model: insane trade-in program and free in-home trials (and no salesfeckers).  That said, I've not bought any of their equipment yet because I'm not sure I want that high-end of stuff and, frankly, there's Schiit.  The Gumby, being upgradeable is somewhat similar to PSA's DAC and much cheaper (yggy's a better comparo).  Especially now that there's Gen5 USB.

After trying a LOT of stuff, for me, in order to get value out of, say, an Yggy, I'd need a super revealing amp and headphones ... as in $5000-$10000. and I don't.  so, for me, the gumby will be tops for awhile.

And also, no $5000 power cords for me, but I did get a $50 one for my Jot and it fixed a few key problems for me, so there's that.


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## rutter (Sep 3, 2018)

As far as I'm aware people aren't claiming that the Yggy requires amps or headphones beyond what is discussed on this forum typically. The thing is that's yet another $1200, and for me the Gumby didn't set a good precedent for how far $1000 goes. When I was selling the Gumby and Taurus MKII I was told:



> You're spending 2k to upgrade why not try out the Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2? It can be had for almost or at 2k depending on luck. The gumby is a warmer amp but the yggdrasil is a completely different beast, quite impactful and transparent actually.



So apparently the Gumby is less impactful and transparent than the Yggy. Before I bought it I kept reading it's the bee's knees. It seems like that bee is really tall! Granted the Gumby isn't an amp...


----------



## Dan Lee

rutter said:


> You what? Did you just see it or did you use it?
> 
> Dan Lee, Sonarworks has a painless free trial. Go to their website, download it. All you do is select the headphone and click a button to enable and disable the automatic EQ. There's either an option to lower db in order to prevent distortion or a slider depending on which app you try. As far as I'm concerned it's a must for the LCD-X unless people manually apply similar EQ.


awesome thanks man Im gonna try that and see what it sounds like.


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## Dan Lee

rutter said:


> As far as I'm aware people aren't claiming that the Yggy requires amps or headphones beyond what is discussed on this forum typically. The thing is that's yet another $1200, and for me the Gumby didn't set a good precedent for how far $1000 goes. When I was selling the Gumby and Taurus MKII I was told:
> 
> 
> 
> So apparently the Gumby is less impactful and transparent than the Yggy. Before I bought it I kept reading it's the bee's knees. It seems like that bee is really tall! Granted the Gumby isn't an amp...


Those individuals who are suggesting that the gumby is warm are saying that is is warm only in comparison to the yggy as the yggy is just know for being out of this world transparent and about as nuetral a DAC as you can get at its price point.   But those same people will tell you that the Gumby is also incredibly revealing and great at detail retrieval and is as well one of the best DACs you can buy in its price range but still should we really expect it to be just as good or as revealing as a DAC that costs almost twice as much.  A lot of people who have heard both prefer the Gumbys sound to the yggy as they say it provides a bit more lush musicality.  But here again I am only speaking from what I have read as I have yet to recieve my Gumby or MJ2 despite ordering them over a week and a half ago.  But I understand Schiit gets behind from time to time it is what it is just cant bloody wait to start the Gumby burn in process and try to ridiculous amount of tubes that I have already begun to amass.


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## SilverEars (Sep 3, 2018)

rutter said:


> From what I've read the Taurus MKII is supposed to be [slightly] better than the BHA1. Then comes the V281.


I thought BHA-1 was better than GSXMK2.  I didn't think GSXMK2 was as powerful as either the specs or wattage that is touted as driving some hard to drive cans.  BHA-1 on the other hand does seem to be able to handle hard to drive cans better (although I have not tried something like HE-6 yet).  The situation is, if you feed it balanced from Gumby, it outputs at a higher volume than single ended input, and the really sensitive headphones may get imbalance due to low range of the volume knob due to high input from balanced.  You can lower it's output with singled ended.  I do wish the low gain was even lower.  And I'm just talking about it's singled ended.  It's balanced is too excessive for sensitive cans, but I think balanced is for mainly hard to drive cans.

I have not tried the other two amps you mentioned though.


----------



## SilverEars (Sep 3, 2018)

bagwell359 said:


> Actually for me that usually humidity changes.  high humidity just about everything sounds like crap to me - even heavy AC only helps a bit.  Probably because I get migraines and have Felix Unger sinuses!


That's something I've noticed as well during warm months.  At night the air cools, and feels thinner. I think it's quieter as well.

For some reason even when I'm not refreshed or tired, late night is when I'm most in the mood to listen, unfortunately I have to go to be for work next day.  But, I find ideal time is late night, early morning for best listening sessions.  Worst is daytime.

Most ideal situation is when I'm most refreshed and got off exercise, and air is cool at night with a breeze. I just feel most motivated to listen, explore new tracks, and music just sounds good.


----------



## SilverEars

rutter said:


> By the way, Dan Lee, what do you think about the sound quality of this youtube "video"? Excuse the song.


I listen to Red Velvet as well.  I liked their last year's summer track, "Red Flavor."  In general, Youtube's stream isn't as transparent as Tidal or file playback I find.


----------



## rutter (Sep 3, 2018)

SilverEars said:


> I thought BHA-1 was better than GSXMK2.  I didn't think GSXMK2 was as powerful as either the specs or wattage that is touted as driving some hard to drive cans.  BHA-1 on the other hand does seem to be able to handle hard to drive cans better (although I have not tried something like HE-6 yet).  The situation is, if you feed it balanced from Gumby, it outputs at a higher volume than single ended input, and the really sensitive headphones may get imbalance due to low range of the volume knob due to high input from balanced.  You can lower it's output with singled ended.  I do wish the low gain was even lower.  And I'm just talking about it's singled ended.  It's balanced is too excessive for sensitive cans, but I think balanced is for mainly hard to drive cans.
> 
> I have not tried the other two amps you mentioned though.



It depends on the impedance. If you're trying to drive lower impedance low sensitivity headphones then perhaps you might have to turn the volume knob more, don't know whether there's an actual effect on sound. I found the design of the Taurus intelligent in that it won't put out 7-10W into your LCD-X but puts out 2W into an HD800(S). (Although you could say that's what having gain is for...) Perhaps there are drawbacks to this too. From what I read the BHA-1 shouldn't be as good, but like I said, I don't take much of what I read very seriously anymore.

I don't listen to KPOP. Encountered that song in a reddit thread about this quite funny incident of North Koreans assembled for a KPOP concert, or so the story goes, and thought it was good so I added it to my playlist. Very high sound quality for youtube and generally you can find higher sound quality if you look a little bit.

https://i.imgur.com/Z0d70AV.gifv

Worth seeing.


----------



## SilverEars

rutter said:


> I don't listen to KPOP. Encountered that song in a reddit thread about this quite funny incident of North Koreans assembled for a KPOP concert, or so the story goes, and thought it was good so I added it to my playlist. Very high sound quality for youtube and generally you can find higher sound quality if you look a little bit.
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/Z0d70AV.gifv
> 
> Worth seeing.


I saw video clips of the event on Youtube.  Somebody pointed out that Kim JongUn intentionally placed Irene from Red Velvet next to him in the group photo.  Maybe he was a fan. LOL.


----------



## rutter

The facial expressions in that little clip were awesome. Disdain, confusion, contempt, concern. lol Some amusement and bemusement.  And they were dressed like Santa's helpers at the North Pole too.


----------



## bagwell359

rutter said:


> As far as I'm aware people aren't claiming that the Yggy requires amps or headphones beyond what is discussed on this forum typically. The thing is that's yet another $1200, and for me the Gumby didn't set a good precedent for how far $1000 goes. When I was selling the Gumby and Taurus MKII I was told:
> 
> 
> 
> So apparently the Gumby is less impactful and transparent than the Yggy. Before I bought it I kept reading it's the bee's knees. It seems like that bee is really tall! Granted the Gumby isn't an amp...



Well I was liking the Ragnarok, but it seemed a bit cool compared to my longtime amp ref the Pass X-150.0, so I was hesitating, the Yggy seemed to enhance that character - coolness.  But the Gumby seemed to pair with it in a way that brought in a hint of sweetness and seemed to help highlight low level details that the Yggy pushed into the background a tad because of its dynamic impact.  Now having owned or long term listened to a total of 14 panel speakers it's pretty clear that my bias is towards low level details and not fully scaled dynamics - so to me the choice was clear.  Just like being drawn to ortho dynamic cans I suppose, or even MC cartridges which slay MM's for low level details.


----------



## rutter

So perhaps for future reference, the Gumby is indeed kind of soft and a little warm while the Yggy hits? I found the Gumby + Taurus MKII combo suspiciously loose, in a way boomy, like the air is a little pregnant with something yet without particular strength to the sound. Not very crisp. Slightly heavy.


----------



## bagwell359

GrussGott said:


> That's why I like the PS Audio business model: insane trade-in program and free in-home trials (and no salesfeckers).  That said, I've not bought any of their equipment yet because I'm not sure I want that high-end of stuff and, frankly, there's Schiit.  The Gumby, being upgradeable is somewhat similar to PSA's DAC and much cheaper (yggy's a better comparo).  Especially now that there's Gen5 USB.
> 
> After trying a LOT of stuff, for me, in order to get value out of, say, an Yggy, I'd need a super revealing amp and headphones ... as in $5000-$10000. and I don't.  so, for me, the gumby will be tops for awhile.
> 
> And also, no $5000 power cords for me, but I did get a $50 one for my Jot and it fixed a few key problems for me, so there's that.



I of the ridiculous past money spent spends all my time with a HFM HE-500 that cost me $350 plus a pair of new pads, and a Ragnarok - that's two grand - to support the Gumby.  

$50 cord?  If you have a troublesome issue - lacking insulation, grounding issues etc... was it like that?


----------



## bagwell359

rutter said:


> So perhaps for future reference, the Gumby is indeed kind of soft and a little warm while the Yggy hits? I found the Gumby + Taurus MKII combo suspiciously loose, in a way boomy, like the air is a little pregnant with something yet without particular strength to the sound. Not very crisp. Slightly heavy.



That doesns't sync with my Gumby through the Ragnarok or the Pass X-150/Adcom GFP-750 - XLR in both cases.  I find a distinct lack of digitalitis in the upper mids and treble.  Superb definition esp of lower level items such as recording space, cues, overtones.  The slight lack of dynamic impact does not translate to the bass sounding like rotten tomatoes being struck with mallets.  Loose or boomy?  No, not here.


----------



## rutter

It was slightly not crisp for me, a little heavy. Not sure it was the bass. I also thought the Taurus MKII did significantly more for separation and space than the Gumby.


----------



## bagwell359

GrussGott said:


> That's why I like the PS Audio business model: insane trade-in program and free in-home trials (and no salesfeckers).  That said, I've not bought any of their equipment yet because I'm not sure I want that high-end of stuff and, frankly, there's Schiit.  The Gumby, being upgradeable is somewhat similar to PSA's DAC and much cheaper (yggy's a better comparo).  Especially now that there's Gen5 USB.
> 
> After trying a LOT of stuff, for me, in order to get value out of, say, an Yggy, I'd need a super revealing amp and headphones ... as in $5000-$10000. and I don't.  so, for me, the gumby will be tops for awhile.
> 
> And also, no $5000 power cords for me, but I did get a $50 one for my Jot and it fixed a few key problems for me, so there's that.



PS... My only PS gear was the IV pre-amp with an outboard power supply and adjustable resistance in the MC step up.  Learned a lot about loading MC's.  Nice piece but couldn't stand up to my next pre - an ARC SP15, or the prior an ARC SP10.

Anyhow, I'll follow my own advice.  When you get piece that has an unusual amount of truth and music in it, stop reading reviews, magazines, or talking to dealers about upgrades.  So, I'm not listening to any new DAC's and enjoying my Gumby - 3 years since I had any other DAC here and none is scheduled.


----------



## RCBinTN

Some great experiences and stories there, @bagwell359 - thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!



Dan Lee said:


> WOW that is just incredible man. I mean good for hime that he could afford that system cause I have to imagine that it would sound absolutely out of this world but man Im gonna be thinking bout that story for a while cause that is just simply unreal that someone actually owns something like that and gets to use it on a regular basis. I mean how could you possible listen to music on anything else after that. So crazy. Thanks for sharing that.



Well, sadly, David fell on hard times and had to sell off most of his gear. A rough ending to the story.



Dan Lee said:


> utilizing J rivers EQ have you noticed any added distortion or noise to your system as I have found whenever I have used EQ's and have tried quite a few they seem to always add unwanted noise or distortion and I would love to find one that doesnt do that. Of course it could just be that I am making the wrong adjustments or doing something else wrong but not really sure on that front.



Yes - that's why I waited so long to try the JRiver EQ. I also had bad experiences with other EQ in the past.
But, it was free and easy to try and when I did, it was a nice result.
The EQ adds no detrimental change to the SQ that I can hear, even with the super-resolving HD800.
The upstream source is a Macbook Pro mid-2014 running OSX El Capitan Version 10.11.6, with JRiver Media Center 23.


----------



## bagwell359

RCBinTN said:


> Some great experiences and stories there, @bagwell359 - thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!



Well, it's a tale that starts with access to equipment on the cheap, a good dose of subjective ego and then getting more clear and scientific.  Also there is life after a great set-up (+$30k list) that had to go due to money/space limitations - found interestingly enough in headphones.  I get as much detail for < $4k now - of course my hearing is toasted over 14k.

There are maybe some things to learn from me.  I'm learning a lot here from lots of folks.  That's the best outcome I think.


----------



## Dr.J

Is anyone here using the Allo DigiOne signature digital transport with their Gungnir and, if so, how are you enjoying it and are they meant for each other?


----------



## 565hunter

Dr.J said:


> Is anyone here using the Allo DigiOne signature digital transport with their Gungnir and, if so, how are you enjoying it and are they meant for each other?


I just received  my Pi2Media 502DAC shield. It will probably be at least a week before I get a chance to work with it. This is my first foray into Pi and digital transport so I don't have anything to compare it to. After bringing it to life I will be able to offer my impressions connected to Gumby and Yggy.


----------



## Dr.J

565hunter, please keep us posted! I’m very curious to hear how you make out with it!


----------



## SilverEars

That sound when you switch tracks, it's a relay going off right?  It's from changes of sampling rate right?  I wish I can see the value on display when it triggers the change.


----------



## earChasm

SilverEars said:


> That sound when you switch tracks, it's a relay going off right?  It's from changes of sampling rate right?  I wish I can see the value on display when it triggers the change.


Yes, yes and I agree :.)
On the other hand, my stuff is behind me so I'm not looking when listening to music. Besides that, the unit would probably more expensive.


----------



## Dan Lee

Anyone with a gungnir multibit with gen 5 usb tried it with an ifi purifier or regen?  Id be curious to know if there is any benefit at all or if Schiit did in fact fix usb with the gen 5 upgrade.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Dan Lee said:


> Anyone with a gungnir multibit with gen 5 usb tried it with an ifi purifier or regen?  Id be curious to know if there is any benefit at all or if Schiit did in fact fix usb with the gen 5 upgrade.



ISO Regen with the extra linear power supply ... Made a difference for me ... I have the same for my Yaggy setup ...


----------



## earChasm

Dan Lee said:


> Anyone with a gungnir multibit with gen 5 usb tried it with an ifi purifier or regen?  Id be curious to know if there is any benefit at all or if Schiit did in fact fix usb with the gen 5 upgrade.


Used if with the iFi purifier and couldn't hear a clear different. I did kinda feel it made the sound worse, like less 3d. Eventually I switched to coax because that sounds best to my ears.


----------



## artur9

Rather than continuing to mess around to try to "fix" USB I decided to get a better source via coax.  I got a used Bryston BDP-1 for less than the cost of some of the USB cleaner-uppers. 

The clarity out of the BDP-1 via coax or AES made the change very worthwhile.


----------



## Ichos

Hello  many years reading , now time for my first post!
I have tried usb gen 5 (gumby) with ifi i galvanic 3.0 and i silencer 3 and the improvement is there but very minimal
to worth the cost.
But then i tried the bnc (cd transport) in with the ifi i spdif purifier and the difference was huge an improvement in every way
and the result better than the usb gen 5 in.
(imho)


----------



## rutter

Is coaxial an option with a PC?


----------



## Ichos

Yes but you have to use a usb to coaxial converter like schiit eitr.
Or you can use a pc with spdif output or an rpi with coaxial hat.


----------



## rutter

SPDIF is different from coaxial? I see it on my motherboard but don't see something explicitly labeled coaxial. Wonder if where I have speakers connected is coaxial. How do usb, spdif, and coaxial compare?


----------



## Ichos

Usually pc have spdif output.
What is your mobo?
For Schiit for me is coaxial+ifi > usb gen 5 =coaxial > spdif > usb (old).


----------



## rutter

Asus Maximus Hero IX


----------



## rkw

rutter said:


> SPDIF is different from coaxial?


No. SPDIF is coaxial or optical (Toslink): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF



Ichos said:


> Usually pc have spdif output.


I would say the opposite. Most PC do not have SPDIF, and if it does, it is usually through an added card.


----------



## Ichos

It was compared between spdif or coaxial output for a pc.


----------



## rutter

Mine is optical.


----------



## Ichos (Sep 21, 2018)

rutter said:


> Asus Maximus Hero IX


This mobo supports spdif output.
So you can try connecting your DAC with spdif and see if you like it!


----------



## Dan Lee

Man thanks for all the responses to that question guys.  I was curious about the regen and also about just using spdif or optical to see if there is a noticeable sound difference and am currently building a computer which will have the capability.  I am hoping that spdif or optical sounds better cuz id rather not spend $150 on a regen since most of you agree ifi purifier is not so dramatic.  What is the maximum sound quality you can get from spdif and optical?  I thought I read somwhere that it is lower then USB.  Not that I have a ton of stuff streaming higher then cd quality just more curiousity I guess.  I use tidal and frequently listen to mqa when available.


----------



## RCBinTN

artur9 said:


> Rather than continuing to mess around to try to "fix" USB I decided to get a better source via coax.  I got a used Bryston BDP-1 for less than the cost of some of the USB cleaner-uppers.
> 
> The clarity out of the BDP-1 via coax or AES made the change very worthwhile.



Interesting! I am considering a BDP like Bryston, but the new ones are $3,500. Ouch.
I have heard that the old BDP-1 has stability issues like power blips causing system resets ... have you experienced that?

Personally, I was using optical (AQ diamond) from my Macbook Pro to GMB.
That was until the Gen 5 USB launched. 
I switched at once, to test the Gen 5 - and it blew away the optical.
The Gen 5 is uber-stable and the sound is actually better, to my ears, than was the optical.

I still believe the AES will sound the best, if you have that option (read YGGY), but the GMB doesn't have an AES input.

Cheers,
RCB


----------



## artur9 (Sep 22, 2018)

RCBinTN said:


> Interesting! I am considering a BDP like Bryston, but the new ones are $3,500. Ouch.
> I have heard that the old BDP-1 has stability issues like power blips causing system resets ... have you experienced that?
> ...
> I still believe the AES will sound the best, if you have that option (read YGGY), but the GMB doesn't have an AES input.




I was using the AES out into my preamp but we moved recently and the setup changed so now it's coax into GMB.  I still haven't set up the system properly to say what difference, if any, that's making.

My BDP-1 has been stable with no random system resets.  It's always been plugged into low-end power "stabilizers" (currently a SurgeX unit) as I've always suffered from odd power glitches.  One blew out my electric car's charger and its charging station!

I run mpd on the BDP and feed that mpd music over ethernet.  I'm therefore not keeping any music on the BDP or have any attached storage.  Maybe that makes a difference.  I do use the USB ports to try out new music and I have copied some music to it but that's not the primary way I use the BDP.

I had a SoTM SMS-200 which was a great unit.  That was USB-only and once I decided to pursue non-USB it needed to be replaced.  Selling it and using the proceeds to cover 90% of the cost of a BDP-1 was one of the best audio decisions I've ever made.  Still batting something like a whopping .005 overall though when it comes to audio decision making 

P.S. My Gumby does not have USB of any kind so that's not currently an option.


----------



## Dr.J

For anyone interested in a quality CD player, I’ve decided to sell my Meridian 508.24; it has had little use, is in mint condition and has, of course, coax out. If interested, feel free to contact me.


----------



## RCBinTN

artur9 said:


> I was using the AES out into my preamp but we moved recently and the setup changed so now it's coax into GMB.  I still haven't set up the system properly to say what difference, if any, that's making.
> 
> My BDP-1 has been stable with no random system resets.  It's always been plugged into low-end power "stabilizers" (currently a SurgeX unit) as I've always suffered from odd power glitches.  One blew out my electric car's charger and its charging station!
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info ... my batting average in this hobby is pretty low as well . 

Another Head-Fi pal is using the BDP-1 with USB music, that's where I heard about the drop-outs. 
I just thought that keeping music on a thumb drive (or SSD) feeding thru a server sounds like an easy way to manage digital files.

Why does your GMB not have any USB at all? I'm using the Gen 5 as my go-to connection (from Mac) and it works very well -

Cheers!
RCB


----------



## artur9

RCBinTN said:


> Another Head-Fi pal is using the BDP-1 with USB music, that's where I heard about the drop-outs.
> I just thought that keeping music on a thumb drive (or SSD) feeding thru a server sounds like an easy way to manage digital files.
> 
> Why does your GMB not have any USB at all? I'm using the Gen 5 as my go-to connection (from Mac) and it works very well -



I use MinimServer to organize the music on my server.  Way more flexible than what the BDP can do on its own.  As a classical music listener I need that flexibility.

I misspoke about the Gumby not having USB.  I know it's not Gen5 because the Gumby is too old for that.


----------



## Dr.J

You can update your Gungnir’s USB to Gen five; I think Schiit charges $100 for the parts, if you do it yourself and $150 installed!


----------



## artur9

Dr.J said:


> You can update your Gungnir’s USB to Gen five; I think Schiit charges $100 for the parts, if you do it yourself and $150 installed!


I know but since I'm not using anyway haven't felt the need.


----------



## Eldair

About usb. Just buy Curious Cable and it will change sound pretty much. This cable has a fuller, darker and richer musical perspective than any  of the USB cables I have tried. 
I used to be like cables don´t matter but then i hear this in friends place with my equipment and i was blown away. It is just great.


----------



## RCBinTN

Eldair said:


> About usb. Just buy Curious Cable and it will change sound pretty much. This cable has a fuller, darker and richer musical perspective than any  of the USB cables I have tried.
> I used to be like cables don´t matter but then i hear this in friends place with my equipment and i was blown away. It is just great.



Interesting stuff. Here's a write-up on the Curious Cable and one other.
The author writes that the USB cable can change the tone of the music. One has more mids, the other has more bass.

https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/audio-ramblings-usb-cables-curious-anticable/

I'm using Alex's Wywires Platinum (the link above contains a link to the Wywires Platinum review) and am very happy with it, but will ask his opinion of the Curious Cable design.


----------



## earChasm

rutter said:


> I got the Taurus MKII used for $1000, and might've even overpaid by about $200. iFi Pro iCan should be much better than the HDVA600 from what I hear. Violectric V281 used is another option. Then there's more obscure stuff like the Gustard H20 that you'll have people claiming is really good.
> 
> I think Questyle is crap too. Had the 400i at home, used 600i at a store. HDVA600 vs CMA600i is like being stuck between a rock and hard place. But if you are content with the Gumby + HDVA600 that's what matters.


Ok, I'm not posting this reply to be a pain but to close the discussion with a bit more knowledge on my part. Actually, I wrote quite a bit explaining what I auditioned, heard and whatever but I decided to delete everything since this  the Gungnir thread.

...so, I fell in love with the Auralic Taurus MK1 and decided later to buy the MK2 (got them both at the moment). As a general consensus, yes it beats the HDVA600. With the Auralic I can enjoy music (like 80's albums) which sounds like crap on the HDVA600. If I had to choose one it would be the Taurus 100%. 

That being said. There is something special about the HDVA600 I don't want to miss. I hear the same stuff as the Taurus but in a different way. Like me at a young age trying to be first (Taurus) and me like now, "there will be plenty left when I arrive"...

Does the HDVA600 suck? No, not in my book. It's a flavor I don't want to be without (so its going nowhere).
Do I like the Bryston BHA-1? No, way too sharp.
Do I like the iFi Pro? Not really, sorry I can't hear anything special. And what's with the tubes?!
Do I like the Violectric V281? Hell yes, but I'm not paying so much money for such an ugly box.
And last but not least, the Taurus is here to stay :.)

Thank you @rutter , without you there would be no Taurus behind me .



Dull my senses
steal my pride
principles denied
Passion faked and sold to the anthem green and gold.
Colour of the virtue by working like a slave
More precious than life? itself
what's the colour tempting fate?

What's the colour of money?
what's the colour of money?
Don't tell me that you think it's green
me I know it's red.


----------



## rick3333

Just upgraded from Bifrost Multibit to Gungnir DS....... i am the 3rd owner and the unit is 3+ years old. I shall upgrade to Multibit as soon as funds allow and also get the Gen 5 USB board fitted at the same time. Thanks go to Fraser for selling it to me at a very reasonable price. A nice piece of kit and despite being delta sigma has a sound signature that i can live with for now. It has Gen 2 USB which is what i use currently.


----------



## earChasm

rick3333 said:


> Just upgraded from Bifrost Multibit to Gungnir DS.


Noticed any sound differences and if yes, care to share :.)
A few weeks ago someone was selling a Gungnir DS for 350€. I was so tempted to buy, just to be able to compare both. I'm glad I didn't coz it would be silly. "Look ma, 2 Gungnirs" :.)


----------



## rutter

earChasm said:


> Do I like the Violectric V281? Hell yes, but I'm not paying so much money for such an ugly box.



This is ideally what I would get next, if I'd get something at the moment. Not even close on money though, even used. At least I know what I'm getting in a 2080 ti graphics card.


----------



## rick3333

earChasm said:


> Noticed any sound differences and if yes, care to share :.)
> A few weeks ago someone was selling a Gungnir DS for 350€. I was so tempted to buy, just to be able to compare both. I'm glad I didn't coz it would be silly. "Look ma, 2 Gungnirs" :.)


The difference for me compared to the bifrost multibit is hard for me to quantify...... i was an early adopter of the bifrost and upgraded to uber before upgrading to gen 2 usb and multibit. I guess i had the bifrost 6+ years and all i can say is that the sound from the gungnir sounds less congested to my ears, however its a bit brighter in the treble . I could not afford £1100 for a new gungnir multibit so decided to by one used (i am the 3rd owner).... i paid £395. Soundwise i have left it on for a week so far and find the Delta Sigma chip to be quite good. I am 55 so my hearing has deteriorated compared to say a teenagers. The sound is about on par with the bifrost multibit so i am looking forward to the Gen 5 usb and multibit upgrade for the gungnir.... Apologies if i am not describing the sound properly.... I very rarely post and have only been a member for 2 years. It was always my intention to source a gungnir DS secondhand because of the price and then upgrade. I will do my best to give a more coherent opinion about the sound when i have listened to the dac for another 3 or 4 weeks as this will give me time to play my music and find out the gungnirs signature soundwise. By the way i listen for 8 to 10 hours a day when i get the chance.


----------



## Dan Lee

rutter said:


> This is ideally what I would get next, if I'd get something at the moment. Not even close on money though, even used. At least I know what I'm getting in a 2080 ti graphics card.


From what I have heard and read about the V281 man that amp would be end game for sure.  I could see myself going for one someday but happy with MJ2 for a while.  There is a lot of great SS options in that V281 price range.  Also I too wouldve thought the iFi iCAN Pro woulda been an awesome headphone amp from all the reviews Ive seen.  iFis 3d/crossfeed is also just incredible.  It does something different then a standard crossfeed that I just cant explain.  When I had the micro idsd black label I loved it with the hifiman he400i but when I stepped up to the LCD-X the headphones were already so 3D sounding on their own that the light use of the 3D effect on the micro was no longer apparent.  But I have heard that the pro make a more noticeable difference as it has more steps.  But that type of stuff isnt for everyone.  V281 or Headamp GSX-MKII would prolly sound better long term.


----------



## Dan Lee

@earChasm @rutter Ive heard you guys talk about auditioning amps and headphones and what not.  I gotta ask how are you doing this?  Are you just fortunate to live somewhere with a high end shop close by or do you order it and return it?  I live in palm coast, Fl and google searching high end audio shops shows me things like best buy and guitar center haha which is not quite high end audio.  God I would love to have a place to go where I could autdition some of this stuff rather then just hoping the 30 reviews I read and watched will suit my taste.


----------



## Paladin79

Dan Lee said:


> @earChasm @rutter Ive heard you guys talk about auditioning amps and headphones and what not.  I gotta ask how are you doing this?  Are you just fortunate to live somewhere with a high end shop close by or do you order it and return it?  I live in palm coast, Fl and google searching high end audio shops shows me things like best buy and guitar center haha which is not quite high end audio.  God I would love to have a place to go where I could autdition some of this stuff rather then just hoping the 30 reviews I read and watched will suit my taste.



I am fortunate to have a son that shares the same hobby so I have heard some of his headphones, Schiit gear, etc. I also tend to buy a lot of gear and compare it but I do DIY, buy used pieces, and save money in a lot of ways. For a while MrSpeakers ran an upgrade on some of their headphones so I got into some of those with full warranty for $500 instead of the usual $1700. I also use Massdrop, almost everyone I know has the Sennheiser HD6xx headphones for $200, a deal that is hard to beat. Quite a bit of gear retains its value so you can always buy it and sell it if you do not like it. Schiit audio does have a return policy within 15 days as I recall, that can help on Amps and such.


----------



## Dan Lee

Paladin79 said:


> I am fortunate to have a son that shares the same hobby so I have heard some of his headphones, Schiit gear, etc. I also tend to buy a lot of gear and compare it but I do DIY, buy used pieces, and save money in a lot of ways. For a while MrSpeakers ran an upgrade on some of their headphones so I got into some of those with full warranty for $500 instead of the usual $1700. I also use Massdrop, almost everyone I know has the Sennheiser HD6xx headphones for $200, a deal that is hard to beat. Quite a bit of gear retains its value so you can always buy it and sell it if you do not like it. Schiit audio does have a return policy within 15 days as I recall, that can help on Amps and such.


Thanks for the tips thats pretty much my only option too at this point.  I just always hear about these lucky people that have shops that deal in hi end audio where they can go and demo different things allowing more educated choices which would be absolutely fantastic.  But I have been very satisfied with my schiit gear thus far.  But the next set of headphones I get is gonna basically comedown to the LCD-4, Focal Utopia, or the Stax SR-009 and I imagine at that price range they rather frown on buying to try then return.  Then again Im not sure I have heard of web sites that rent out hi end gear but the deposit is like 10% or something which is a good bit of money at that price range.

Ive tried to find shows in my area or anywhere near me to no avail.  Its like florida is a dead zone for hi fiers.


----------



## Cactus108

Anyone elses gumby randomly switching sources? It's starting to happen more frequently for me.


----------



## davidflas

Cactus108 said:


> Anyone elses gumby randomly switching sources? It's starting to happen more frequently for me.



No such issues here, in fact it's been flawless since 2013 when I first got it. The upgrade to multi-bit was icing on the cake.


----------



## rutter

I was able to listen to only some things at a store- a number of headphones and only one DAC/amp combo. That did save me a lot of hassle. I've bought to keep but have been dissatisfied with so many things in effect I've been buying to try. The rest I've resold.


----------



## earChasm

rick3333 said:


> The difference for me compared to the bifrost multibit is hard for me to quantify...... i was an early adopter of the bifrost and upgraded to uber before upgrading to gen 2 usb and multibit. I guess i had the bifrost 6+ years and all i can say is that the sound from the gungnir sounds less congested to my ears, however its a bit brighter in the treble . I could not afford £1100 for a new gungnir multibit so decided to by one used (i am the 3rd owner).... i paid £395. Soundwise i have left it on for a week so far and find the Delta Sigma chip to be quite good. I am 55 so my hearing has deteriorated compared to say a teenagers. The sound is about on par with the bifrost multibit so i am looking forward to the Gen 5 usb and multibit upgrade for the gungnir.... Apologies if i am not describing the sound properly.... I very rarely post and have only been a member for 2 years. It was always my intention to source a gungnir DS secondhand because of the price and then upgrade. I will do my best to give a more coherent opinion about the sound when i have listened to the dac for another 3 or 4 weeks as this will give me time to play my music and find out the gungnirs signature soundwise. By the way i listen for 8 to 10 hours a day when i get the chance.


Good summary and...YES, the word I was looking for in my previous post was "congested". Songs like Two Tribes (Frankie Goes To Hollywood) sounds congested on the HDVA600 and a lot better on the Taurus and Violectric.

Anyway, since I upgraded from the Asgard 2 + Bifrost G5 4490, I also listen close to 8 hours a day when possible. Since that, somehow my _tinnitus_ got less or less noticeable. I know that shouldn't be the case but I swear that it helps somehow. When I don't listen to music (HP) for about a week I start noticing the hiss (bedroom) again. I'm so glad the Gumby and HVDA600 made it possible for me to listen 8 hours straight without problems.


----------



## earChasm

Dan Lee said:


> @earChasm @rutter Ive heard you guys talk about auditioning amps and headphones and what not.  I gotta ask how are you doing this?  Are you just fortunate to live somewhere with a high end shop close by or do you order it and return it?  I live in palm coast, Fl and google searching high end audio shops shows me things like best buy and guitar center haha which is not quite high end audio.  God I would love to have a place to go where I could autdition some of this stuff rather then just hoping the 30 reviews I read and watched will suit my taste.


No it's not easy. The good stuff most Americans talk about like sandwiches, are hard to buy or addition in the Netherlands. For example, I couldn't addition the Auralic Taurus anywhere. Yes, I could buy one and return it but that's not how I roll. And no, I'm absolutely no saint.

Anyway, after I had additioned the Violectric 281 at a shop, and the only flaw it got was it looks, I pretty much thought I would end up with that one. However, before buying the Violectric I absolutely wanted to hear the Taurus first. And the only way to do that was to buy a 2nd hand one from ebay (only 1 available in the EU). Didn't like it but hey, I wanted my setup to be done. Which it was untill Rutter showed up :.)

But now I'm really done. I'm sure there is better stuff out there but I don't care. I'm enjoying my music and think my stuff is pretty. That's enough for me.


Look ma! I got 2.




 

Sorry, wrong photo 



 

* I sold the MK1 to my brother and made a 1€ profit on it. Yeah, I'm hardcore .


----------



## RCBinTN

earChasm said:


> No it's not easy. The good stuff most Americans talk about like sandwiches, are hard to buy or addition in the Netherlands. For example, I couldn't addition the Auralic Taurus anywhere. Yes, I could buy one and return it but that's not how I roll. And no, I'm absolutely no saint.
> 
> Anyway, after I had additioned the Violectric 281 at a shop, and the only flaw it got was it looks, I pretty much thought I would end up with that one. However, before buying the Violectric I absolutely wanted to hear the Taurus first. And the only way to do that was to buy a 2nd hand one from ebay (only 1 available in the EU). Didn't like it but hey, I wanted my setup to be done. Which it was untill Rutter showed up :.)
> 
> ...



Nice rig and listening space. I'm glad to hear you wound up at a happy point with your amp journey. 
I am sure that listening to headphones can help tame tinnitus - my wife reports the same - that's why we keep 2x HD800.

I don't mind some brightness from my Bryston BHA-1, but I have also EQed some of the treble down in the 3-9 kHz region.
The HD800 are more listenable now.

And, all along, I was on a journey to drive both the HD800 and an Audez'e complement. LCD-X and now LCD-4.
The BHA-1 sounds great with the LCD-4. Thus, I too have reached my happy place


----------



## Dan Lee

earChasm said:


> No it's not easy. The good stuff most Americans talk about like sandwiches, are hard to buy or addition in the Netherlands. For example, I couldn't addition the Auralic Taurus anywhere. Yes, I could buy one and return it but that's not how I roll. And no, I'm absolutely no saint.
> 
> Anyway, after I had additioned the Violectric 281 at a shop, and the only flaw it got was it looks, I pretty much thought I would end up with that one. However, before buying the Violectric I absolutely wanted to hear the Taurus first. And the only way to do that was to buy a 2nd hand one from ebay (only 1 available in the EU). Didn't like it but hey, I wanted my setup to be done. Which it was untill Rutter showed up :.)
> 
> * I sold the MK1 to my brother and made a 1€ profit on it. Yeah, I'm hardcore .


Haha I was gonna say thats awesome looking with both aurilics next to the gungnir.  Did you buy rutters gungnir?  
You guys are lucky to have a shop to go to at all that carries any hifi gear.  I live in Florida and I have searched the entire bloody state looking for any shop that sells hifi gear even if it meant driving a few hours.  But I have thus far found nothing.  The closest thing to hifi here is guitar center and bestbuy.  But all they sell are the low end cheaper stuff in hifi.  
I have basically had to use amazon and some other options to try stuff out.  I fully intend on keeping it if it lives up to expectation but I have definitely sent more stuff back that had great reviews and turned out to be pure crap.  But I have also kept the highest end stuff that I have purchased to so I guess it evens out.  Hell I have even entertained the idea of opening a hifi shop but just dont know if there is a real market here for it.  
How did you like the V281?  I am super intrigued by that unit and honestly if it sounds as good as everyone says, though I agree it just looks odd, I would definitely want to own one.  but for now I am very happy with my Gumby and MJ2 set up and in awe of just how much of an upgrade it has been.  
Sorry to ask so many questions so this is last one.  Are you enjoying the Taurus MKII?  I have heard great things about that amp to not to mention it looks awesome.  I considered that set up with the acompanying dac before I decided on the Schiit units.


----------



## Dan Lee

rutter said:


> I was able to listen to only some things at a store- a number of headphones and only one DAC/amp combo. That did save me a lot of hassle. I've bought to keep but have been dissatisfied with so many things in effect I've been buying to try. The rest I've resold.


Yeah man I find thats how it has been for me too only I have yet to find any stores that sold anything more then a dragonfly red as far as dedicated headphone dac/amps go which I have used both dragonflys black and red and gotta say I just dont understand all the hype but hey to each their own right?  Amps I have tried and returned would include both dragonflies, ifi nano idsd black, ifi micro idsd black (which was really great as far as portable amp/dacs go but definitely not as good as I wanted), Hafler HA-15, Schiit Modi Multi and Schiit Magni 3 and Vali 2 (also good but made me want more), and lastly the ifi idsd portable and Fiio E17 (both of which were incredibly disappointing considering the reviews.)  All this led me to Jotunheim with multibit module which has been an awesome solid state all in one solution and one of the best bang for buck options as I also briefly owned the questyle CMA400i which I felt was good enough but it cost $200 more then Jot and to my ears and if Im not mistaken yours too the Jot just sounds better.  
Now I am super happy with my current setup which is the Gungnir Multi and MJ2.  These paired together sound better then anything else I have today heard.  I know you had some bad luck with your Gungnir have you thought further or narrowed your search any further as far as what your thinking about for your future amp and dac?  Did you feel the V281 was an option and if so how much better do you feel it is then the Jot?  Have you looked into or listened to any of Chords dacs?  I have heard nothing but great things about there stuff and imagine a Chord dac paired with a V281 would be insanely detailed and crystal clear but again I can only speculate as Ive not had oppurtunity to try them first hand.


----------



## rutter

I don't think it's a question of luck. I was not impressed with the difference the Gumby made against the Mimby with the Jotunheim. I'm out of money as I decided to put it elsewhere where the returns are more concrete. I'd like to have a V281 and it's what I'd have to go for, or something similar, when I revisit this, but that's not going to happen presently. As for a DAC I might try an updated Gumby, go with another option in this price range as apparently there are despite the little you encounter, or an Yggy, but I'm confused about Schiit after reading some stuff about the Yggy so who knows. Money is the key though. Can't even think about this presently.


----------



## Dan Lee

Yeah I get the money situation.  I prolly should have held off a little longer on my purchase but decided to go into debt a little for this set up which oddly enough as of today I am quite concerned with.  I got my Gumby and MJ2 the 15th of this month and today I decided to try out the lisst tubes to see what they sound like and instead got no sound whatsoever as I apparently got some tubes damaged in shipping.  Turns out they somehow have damaged both my MJ and Gumby as I cannot get either one to function on its own hooked to the Jot or hooked together. the moment I hit play the MJ audibly goes into self protect mode and wont do anything.  But my Jot still works fine so I guess I should be greatful I have that to play with while I wait for Schiit to take these back and fix them.  Quite frustrated by this but I am aware these things happen I just am kinda shocked something so simple as lisst tubes can shut down what could be and has been argued to be an end game dac and amp.  Oh well I will see what they say tomorrow and how they handle it.  Their customer service has been damn good to me in the past so Im sure they will handle it just hope I dont have to wait another month to get the system back.
Would you say that you prefer a more analytical sound rutter cause if so man you should look into chords line up of dacs as everyone ive talked to that uses them says they are just unreal sharp and accurate as hell.  I have heard the same about the yggy but that thing is more expensive and about 15 times the size haha.  Id love an yggy but also would love to hear a chord just to see what the hype is about.  Mytek Brooklyn gets a lot of love too, but I dont like that they dont have a balanced option, but some dont mind that.  Id also like to have a woo audio tube amp down the line too.  Well now Im dreaming cause all that crap is a lot of damn money.  Im prolly done at this point for at least a couple years.


----------



## rutter

Good luck with shipping. For something like this they would probably cover it both ways but Florida is similar to Maryland- you either pay $70-100 each to get a bigger product delivered in 1-2 days or you pay like $20 if not more and it takes a whole week one way. And if they do cover it I doubt they're paying for fast shipping. You'll be waiting at minimum three weeks is my guess.

I don't know what I prefer. Tried the Chord Mojo with the Hifiman Edition X v2 and found it harsh, rather bare-boned too although I picked up on the crispness. The Yggy is supposed to have some general impact if I'm not mistaken. I like impact, I like crispness, definition, and whatever resolution means without making everything thin, sharp, and even unpleasant, and I like good separation, imaging, and soundstage/space. I don't like just dryness. I need some fullness. I would imagine this is achievable but who knows how much money you'd need to spend. Maybe a properly driven Susvara (>=$5k + $6k), or you'd have to go into the stuff with its own amplifiers. I've tried a bunch of headphones and all seem to have serious flaws. Expensive stuff can much improve the separation of the LCD-X with a Jot but on the one hand the LCD-X is supposed to be limited against some $4k headphones and on the third hand I highly doubt I'd get the clean, controlled, and detailed bass I got out of the HD800S with a Jot. The fact that the 800S can have terrific separation with imaging and soundstage through the Jot also tells you that arguing headphones just need a crap-ton of money into DACs and amps to sound like they should isn't truthful. Of course I wouldn't get the same spatial characteristics anyway but at least I know that the LCD-X doesn't have to sound congested as it does with the Jot. The problem with the Gumby was it didn't make as much difference here as the Taurus MKII and it lacked energy in comparison to the Mimby, which was very disappointing for me. I didn't buy it to downgrade in an important area.

This is a weird market.


----------



## earChasm

Dan Lee said:


> Haha I was gonna say thats awesome looking with both aurilics next to the gungnir.  Did you buy rutters gungnir?
> You guys are lucky to have a shop to go to at all that carries any hifi gear.  I live in Florida and I have searched the entire bloody state looking for any shop that sells hifi gear even if it meant driving a few hours.  But I have thus far found nothing.  The closest thing to hifi here is guitar center and bestbuy.  But all they sell are the low end cheaper stuff in hifi.
> I have basically had to use amazon and some other options to try stuff out.  I fully intend on keeping it if it lives up to expectation but I have definitely sent more stuff back that had great reviews and turned out to be pure crap.  But I have also kept the highest end stuff that I have purchased to so I guess it evens out.  Hell I have even entertained the idea of opening a hifi shop but just dont know if there is a real market here for it.
> How did you like the V281?  I am super intrigued by that unit and honestly if it sounds as good as everyone says, though I agree it just looks odd, I would definitely want to own one.  but for now I am very happy with my Gumby and MJ2 set up and in awe of just how much of an upgrade it has been.
> Sorry to ask so many questions so this is last one.  Are you enjoying the Taurus MKII?  I have heard great things about that amp to not to mention it looks awesome.  I considered that set up with the acompanying dac before I decided on the Schiit units.


"Did you buy rutters gungnir", no from Schiit-Europe.
"You guys are lucky to have a shop to go to at all that carries any hifi gear.", if you put it that way I guess we are.
"even if it meant driving a few hours", my country is so small, a few hours drive means getting out the country :.)

"How did you like the V281.", Fantastic, better than the Taurus IMHO (and from memory) but it had 2 disadvantages.

1) It's ugly
2) Since I bought the Taurus mk1 I had more time to listen to it and in my own home setup. It took a couple of days but I totally fell for it. I was afraid that the V281 wouldn't sound as good in my setup as it did in the store.

"but for now I am very happy with my Gumby and MJ2 set up", that is a fantastic combo and I'm still curious like hell how it sounds.

"Are you enjoying the Taurus MKII?", Absolutely! The more I listen to it the more the HDVA600 fades away in the background :.) It is absolutely marvelous with the HD800.


----------



## Dan Lee

rutter said:


> Good luck with shipping. For something like this they would probably cover it both ways but Florida is similar to Maryland- you either pay $70-100 each to get a bigger product delivered in 1-2 days or you pay like $20 if not more and it takes a whole week one way. And if they do cover it I doubt they're paying for fast shipping. You'll be waiting at minimum three weeks is my guess.
> 
> I don't know what I prefer. Tried the Chord Mojo with the Hifiman Edition X v2 and found it harsh, rather bare-boned too although I picked up on the crispness. The Yggy is supposed to have some general impact if I'm not mistaken. I like impact, I like crispness, definition, and whatever resolution means without making everything thin, sharp, and even unpleasant, and I like good separation, imaging, and soundstage/space. I don't like just dryness. I need some fullness. I would imagine this is achievable but who knows how much money you'd need to spend. Maybe a properly driven Susvara (>=$5k + $6k), or you'd have to go into the stuff with its own amplifiers. I've tried a bunch of headphones and all seem to have serious flaws. Expensive stuff can much improve the separation of the LCD-X with a Jot but on the one hand the LCD-X is supposed to be limited against some $4k headphones and on the third hand I highly doubt I'd get the clean, controlled, and detailed bass I got out of the HD800S with a Jot. The fact that the 800S can have terrific separation with imaging and soundstage through the Jot also tells you that arguing headphones just need a ****-ton of money into DACs and amps to sound like they should isn't truthful. Of course I wouldn't get the same spatial characteristics anyway but at least I know that the LCD-X doesn't have to sound congested as it does with the Jot. The problem with the Gumby was it didn't make as much difference here as the Taurus MKII and it lacked energy in comparison to the Mimby, which was very disappointing for me. I didn't buy it to downgrade in an important area.
> 
> This is a weird market.


yeah I am thinking im gonna be without the gear for a good bit of time as well.  the Susvara from what I understand are a warmer and more lush sounding version of the he 1000v2 but with more detail as well which kinda makes it sound like the perfect headphone but like you said your spending around 6k new for that bloody thing.  I have heard similar things about the LCD-4 though and thats 2k less supposed to be lush as hell without harsh highs but still somehow be one of the more detailed headphones on the market as well.  But you are right this is a wierd market there is no reason one should pay more for a downgrade then up for sure.  The Chord hugo tt is the one I have heard the most about lately as far as fantastic chord dacs go.  The mojo is sposed to be great for travel and what not but still not as good as higher end models but Id personally still prefer yggy as most comparisons put them very close to one another and yggy just seems more my style.  If you like good resolution and soundstage with good impact I feel like you would love the Mjolnir 2 with a set of good Siemens or Telefunken tubes as those tend to provide an incredible level of detail while also giving great bass impact and the soundstage becomes almost 3D.  Just dont put lisst tubes in it.  Pair that thing with the yggy and your done.


----------



## Dan Lee

earChasm said:


> "Did you buy rutters gungnir", no from Schiit-Europe.
> "You guys are lucky to have a shop to go to at all that carries any hifi gear.", if you put it that way I guess we are.
> "even if it meant driving a few hours", my country is so small, a few hours drive means getting out the country :.)
> 
> ...


Thats awesome glad to hear you like it.  Ive been curious about taurus series.  The V281 design is definitely a weird one I mean what the hell do you pair that with that will look aesthetically pleasing.  I mean I know looks arent everything but at that price point they should mean something.  Also yes gungnir multi and mjolnir 2 combo is just incredible... when it is working anyway haha.  For me its by far the best Ive thusfar heard.  I always thought tubes would take away from accuracy and detail and might add unwanted noise to the system, but quite the opposite is true.  I have never heard such an insanely non exisetent noise floor and such detail clarity.  I am hearing things in the background of some of my favorite songs that Ive just never heard before.   Granted I am running tube pairs that are in the $200 for a pair range which plays into it a good bit.


----------



## rutter (Sep 28, 2018)

I heard the LCD-4 through a Questyle CMA600i and was very unimpressed. Not a fan of the Audeze lush either, generally speaking. The LCD-X is an exception, the LCD-3 is it. I didn't read many good things about the Mjolnir 2 when I was looking at what amp to upgrade to. Perhaps by spending hundreds more on tubes you might have something, finite. No thanks. I also read one of the recent expensive Chord DACs getting slammed in the terms I described the Mojo. Sort of technical but not very pleasant to listen to.


----------



## Dan Lee

rutter said:


> I heard the LCD-4 through a Questyle CMA600i and was very unimpressed. Not a fan of the Audeze lush either, generally speaking. The LCD-X is an exception, the LCD-3 is it. I didn't read many good things about the Mjolnir 2 when I was looking at what amp to upgrade to. Perhaps by spending hundreds more on tubes you might have something, finite. No thanks. I also read one of the recent expensive Chord DACs getting slammed in the terms I described the Mojo. Sort of technical but not very pleasant to listen to.


Man thats nuts about LCD-4 I would have thought it wouldve faired better for ya but I suppose we all have different preffered sound sigs.  I did find that tubes play a pretty big role in the sound of the MJ for the short time I have had it.  I have some pretty high end ones that I was really enjoying but we shall see how that goes when or if I get the thing fixed.


----------



## Dan Lee

Well now I have to go back and eat some words.  Thanks to the help of @AuditoryCanvas we were able to determine that the issue with my amp and dac set up was the result of the USB port as now I am running system through a different port on the computer and all is well and heavenly again.  Just cant believe I spentf 2-3 hours trying different cables and tubes and multiple configurations and different outlets and not once did I bloody think to change sources or ports.  Thanks again AC.  The help this forum provides is damn priceless.  So thankful I dont have to send my schiit out and wait another month to get it back.


----------



## earChasm

Dan Lee said:


> Well now I have to go back and eat some words.  Thanks to the help of @AuditoryCanvas we were able to determine that the issue with my amp and dac set up was the result of the USB port as now I am running system through a different port on the computer and all is well and heavenly again.  Just cant believe I spentf 2-3 hours trying different cables and tubes and multiple configurations and different outlets and not once did I bloody think to change sources or ports.  Thanks again AC.  The help this forum provides is damn priceless.  So thankful I dont have to send my schiit out and wait another month to get it back.


Good to hear and I know the feeling.
A few months ago my home network become very slow in uploading data to my NAS. Reading from the NAS was full speed (125MB/s). Long boring story short, I checked everything multiple times for weeks and it drove me nuts. I just couldn't find the problem. Just before I was willing to admit defeat I remembered there was a third switch hidden behind my NAS. Ouch, I walked around for days with a brown paper sack over my face...


----------



## RCBinTN

earChasm said:


> Good to hear and I know the feeling.
> A few months ago my home network become very slow in uploading data to my NAS. Reading from the NAS was full speed (125MB/s). Long boring story short, I checked everything multiple times for weeks and it drove me nuts. I just couldn't find the problem. Just before I was willing to admit defeat I remembered there was a third switch hidden behind my NAS. Ouch, I walked around for days with a brown paper sack over my face...



LOL! But, you did find the switch!!


----------



## earChasm

RCBinTN said:


> LOL! But, you did find the switch!!


Yeah, and it was the culprit. I had a spare switch and problem solved in like 3 minutes. I did reboot my modem and the 2 other switches but more as a default action (like first rebooting your computer before starting to trouble shoot). I didn't know that a simple unmanaged switch could have a seperate problem for inbound or outbound traffic. That's why I focused most of my attension to my NAS and iMac. In fact, I still think its weird. It's like a coax cable that only works if one specific end is connected to your DAC, but not the other way around :.b


----------



## davisman

My Gungnir multibit arrived today, and I have about 4 hours listening to it. I know people say you need to let it warm up for days, but tbh it is already an improvement over my Bifrost Uber. If it only gets better from here, I am in for a real treat. 

I have a Moljnir coming tomorrow. But right now I have gungnir-WA7-HD800s. I am auditioning the hd800s, they came damaged so for sure they are going back. But that is a really sweet pairing. I think it goes to show how competent the amp in the WA7 actually is, it scales pretty well. I never cared much for the internal dac.


----------



## earChasm

davisman said:


> My Gungnir multibit arrived today, and I have about 4 hours listening to it...


Pics or it didn't happen  ;.)


----------



## davisman

I should post a setup pic once I have everything together. It has been a good year, and I have a lot of new toys on my desk. To bad my desk is almost always covered in whatever I am tinkering with at the time. Heck, I found a blob a liquid metal on my mouse pad when I was moving everything around to make room. I upgraded my computer to a 7940x with a 2080ti.


----------



## RCBinTN

davisman said:


> My Gungnir multibit arrived today, and I have about 4 hours listening to it. I know people say you need to let it warm up for days, but tbh it is already an improvement over my Bifrost Uber. If it only gets better from here, I am in for a real treat.
> 
> I have a Moljnir coming tomorrow. But right now I have gungnir-WA7-HD800s. I am auditioning the hd800s, they came damaged so for sure they are going back. But that is a really sweet pairing. I think it goes to show how competent the amp in the WA7 actually is, it scales pretty well. I never cared much for the internal dac.



Awesome ... this hobby is so cool.
You will love the result when the GMB reaches thermal equilibrium (I certainly do).
And having the options of Moljnir or WA7 will be nice, too.

Happy listening!
RCB


----------



## davisman

RCBinTN said:


> Awesome ... this hobby is so cool.
> You will love the result when the GMB reaches thermal equilibrium (I certainly do).
> And having the options of Moljnir or WA7 will be nice, too.
> 
> ...



It definitely changes once it warms up. I have never experienced  such a change in a single piece of gear.

It sounds great.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Indeed. It will get better day by day. It's trippy, in a good way.


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## davisman (Oct 17, 2018)

Fegefeuer said:


> Indeed. It will get better day by day. It's trippy, in a good way.



I honestly thought something was wrong with the Mjolnir. It sounded like a channel imbalance. I have experienced a wide soundstage before, but never like this. It is different, and I am still adjusting to it.

Currently I am using the gumby with balanced out to the mjolnir. I tried using the single ended output to see if I noticed a difference, and I did. Does gumby output higher levels via balanced? It sounds fuller, most noticeable with vocals. I think it might be a volume difference, but I thought I would ask here.


----------



## Mr Rick

More output? Yes. 2v SE, 4v balanced.


----------



## Ichos

Funny , i have been trying balanced vs single ended in from Gumby to mj2  and balanced out.
To my surprise i prefer single ended with HD800s.
They sound fuller and with better bass.


----------



## koover (Oct 18, 2018)

Ichos said:


> Funny , i have been trying balanced vs single ended in from Gumby to mj2  and balanced out.
> To my surprise i prefer single ended with HD800s.
> They sound fuller and with better bass.


That’s one for the books as you’re the 1st on this entire thread that I can “recall” that feels that way. As long as it’s good for you? That’s all that matters.


----------



## Ichos

Sure there are trade off's like overall clarity , sound stage and fine detail.


----------



## 565hunter

Ichos said:


> Funny , i have been trying balanced vs single ended in from Gumby to mj2  and balanced out.
> To my surprise i prefer single ended with HD800s.
> They sound fuller and with better bass.


Do you mean balanced out from the MJ2 to HD800 (4 pin xlr) vs single ended out (1/4")  or are you talking about SE (rca) from Gumby to MJ2?


----------



## RCBinTN

The difference in voltage could be affecting the perceived SQ in the headphones ...
Louder isn't always more detailed.


----------



## Ichos (Oct 18, 2018)

I mean balanced in vs single ended in from gumby to mjolnir 2.
The headphones out is always balanced.
Of course I am trying to match the volume by ear.
Aside from which one I prefer , believe me that the differences single ended Vs balanced in are subtle and minimal.
So I have come to the conclusion that the single ended out of gumby is not crippled at all and sound is 95% similar to the balanced out.
The same applies to the single ended Vs balanced in of mjolnir 2.
The sound quality is 95% the same but with single in you have to use the high gain to get the best results.
Just my thoughts listening to classical music from cd transport.


----------



## earChasm

Ichos said:


> I mean balanced in vs single ended in from gumby to mjolnir 2.
> The headphones out is always balanced.
> Of course I am trying to match the volume by ear.
> Aside from which one I prefer , believe me that the differences single ended Vs balanced in are subtle and minimal.
> ...


I never knew the SE output of Gumby was considered crippled. I agree with you, the difference of SE and balanced out of Gumby is minimal or doesn't exist (or is too small for my ears to pickup). In my setup with both amps I can't hear an obvious difference.

The differences of both my amps considering SE out or balanced out (to HD800) is another story tho. And it has nothing to do with a difference in volume. I can pick them out with a 100% accuracy each time. And on my Auralic I also sometimes, with certain recordings, like the SE route.


----------



## Ichos

Well never thought so but I was reading here and there that some guys think of the single ended out of gumby being inferior.


----------



## earChasm

Ichos said:


> Well never thought so but I was reading here and there that some guys think of the single ended out of gumby being inferior.


The difficulty is that everyone has a different setup from wall outlet to headphones. May be with a specific setup the SE is inferior, who knows.

Imagine an alpha male with 2 wifes and 7 children, each with their own mobile phone and other stuff that might interfere with the signal. In that case it's easy to believe that the balanced input/output is better . Or doesn't it work like that ?


----------



## Dr.J

I’m wondering if anyone here has tried this unit with their Gungnir?

https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/remedy-reclocker

And, if so, how does it sound?


----------



## bagwell359

Hmmm... never used SE with the Gumby, always an 18" belden balanced.

I developed the habit of using balanced connections over SE for pre-amp and line stage to amp connections.  Two reasons became clear to support that preference.  One was that in the examples I had, the balanced was quieter than SE.  The second is that I could not tell the difference between various cables being used balanced, which makes the choice easier, and cheaper.  At some points in time SE connection differences did sound different - even in blind tests.  But not that often so I don't want to get into that debate.

Specs say balanced output is 4 V RMS vs 2 V RMS for SE.  I'm sticking with the balanced.


----------



## Dan Lee

Dr.J said:


> I’m wondering if anyone here has tried this unit with their Gungnir?
> 
> https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/remedy-reclocker
> 
> And, if so, how does it sound?


hello my friend just curious as to what amp you are using?  If you are like me and running your gungnir with the MJ2 I would say that $400 dollars for that contraption would be way better spent on a truly high quality pair of tubes as you would get a much more noticeable change to your sound.  Ive tried a few of those type of devices and been unable to tell a difference when running a high quality dac and amp.  But some people have different preferences.  If you do decide to go that route please let us know your findings.  but otherwise i would love to have $400 to blow cuz i would definitely get some crazy good tubes to run.


----------



## pichu

So currently rocking an eitr, and modi multibit with a lyr 3 amp. Is it worth upgrading to the gimby? I figure i could sell the eitr and mimby for $300, and can afford the $1k difference for the gumby purchase. I have the Autuer and HD800s so ive been told they can scale well.


----------



## koover

pichu said:


> So currently rocking an eitr, and modi multibit with a lyr 3 amp. Is it worth upgrading to the gimby? I figure i could sell the eitr and mimby for $300, and can afford the $1k difference for the gumby purchase. I have the Autuer and HD800s so ive been told they can scale well.


I can’t say the extra cash you’d have to spend would be worth it to you, but for me it was. I went from a LYR2/Mimby to a Gumby Gen 5 with Mjolnir2.
To me the differences were dramatic and I’ve been in musical bliss ever since.


----------



## pichu

koover said:


> I can’t say the extra cash you’d have to spend would be worth it to you, but for me it was. I went from a LYR2/Mimby to a Gumby Gen 5 with Mjolnir2.
> To me the differences were dramatic and I’ve been in musical bliss ever since.



Interesting. Do you think the amp or the gimby upgrade had more influence? Because im liking the Lyr 3, but when i read through forums, i lose confidence on my opinion


----------



## davisman

Bifrost uber to Gumby was a heck of an upgrade for me. The gumby has more precise imaging, and a greater sense of space. I feel like it was a worthwhile investment. 

I have a bunch of tubes on order for the MJ2, and I can't wait to extract some more performance out of it, but as it stands it was a pretty decent improvement over the WA7 I was using. Not with stock tubes though, they are pretty harsh with my th900s. MJ2's price is really somewhere around 1k by the time you figure in decent tubes.


----------



## earChasm

davisman said:


> Bifrost uber to Gumby was a heck of an upgrade for me. The gumby has more precise imaging, and a greater sense of space. I feel like it was a worthwhile investment.


This!


----------



## Ichos

How about the yaggy Vs gumby?
Is it worth double the price?


----------



## sheldaze

Ichos said:


> How about the yaggy Vs gumby?
> Is it worth double the price?


 On your profile, I see headphones listed. Headphones such as the HD800S can benefit from the slight resolution improvement in the Yggy (versus Gumby). But it would depend on your entire setup.

In the blind, one could say a $200 amplifier would not be able to support the resolution upgrade from Gumby to Yggy. But say a $2000 amplifier should. But it would really help to answer more accurately if you described your complete setup. Gumby is all most people need (and maybe more than some people need - hence Bimby and Modi).


----------



## artur9

earChasm said:


> This!


Double this!  My exact upgrade and well worth it.


----------



## pure5152

For you guys who have the Gumby, what kind of music source quality are you listening to?  Do you think the difference would be notable and worth the upgrade for someone mostly streaming Tidal (flac 16bit/44.1kHz) from something like the mimby?  Or is Tidal not high-enough quality to make use of the Gumby's 19bit resolution?


----------



## artur9

pure5152 said:


> Or is Tidal not high-enough quality to make use of the Gumby's 19bit resolution?


People (y'know, them)  have said that lower resolution music benefits a great deal from multi-bit.


----------



## US Blues

pure5152 said:


> For you guys who have the Gumby, what kind of music source quality are you listening to?  Do you think the difference would be notable and worth the upgrade for someone mostly streaming Tidal (flac 16bit/44.1kHz) from something like the mimby?  Or is Tidal not high-enough quality to make use of the Gumby's 19bit resolution?



Something worth considering: getting a great DAC like a Gumby may inspire you to upgrade your sources. The "Black Hole" effect of fine audio gear.


----------



## koover (Oct 23, 2018)

pure5152 said:


> For you guys who have the Gumby, what kind of music source quality are you listening to?  Do you think the difference would be notable and worth the upgrade for someone mostly streaming Tidal (flac 16bit/44.1kHz) from something like the mimby?  Or is Tidal not high-enough quality to make use of the Gumby's 19bit resolution?


Not only do I stream tidal master but also Spotify premium. Both sound better with Gumby, much, to my ears.  Hell, even Youtube videos sounded better.

Before I pulled the trigger from my LYR2/Mimby, I was quite hesitant and concerned that there’d be minimal improvement and a diminish in return from my past gear. But no, just no, and this was straight outta the box with no burn-in which it needs plenty of. Gumby is just a really nice DAC and is endgame for so many people along with me. It’s more spacious and has great imaging. But the first thing I noticed (it it hit me hard) is how freakin organic the sound is. It’s just so smooth and easy with no edge giving me the sense of listening to music the way it’s supposed to sound.  I got goosebumps actually because I was kind of on the negative side on how much of a difference I’d hear. The best was I can describe it is, It’s not like it’s driving a car at 35 MPH  then punching it to 80 MPH on a rough road, but more like 35 to 50 on a new nicely paved road.


----------



## bagwell359

sheldaze said:


> On your profile, I see headphones listed. Headphones such as the HD800S can benefit from the slight resolution improvement in the Yggy (versus Gumby). But it would depend on your entire setup.
> 
> In the blind, one could say a $200 amplifier would not be able to support the resolution upgrade from Gumby to Yggy. But say a $2000 amplifier should. But it would really help to answer more accurately if you described your complete setup. Gumby is all most people need (and maybe more than some people need - hence Bimby and Modi).



I'd go the other way.  The HD800S has a lot of the characteristics that kept me 100% vinyl until late '14.  When I ran the Yggy vs the Gumby in making my choice:

Yggy was more detailed, more dynamic, 1st gen pop/rock CD's headache provoking as they should be - similar to a big Krell amp 
vs. 
Gumby bit less dynamic, wider soundstage, slightly sweet, tough to take 1st gen CD's sound OK - reminds me of a Pass amp - Aleph3.


----------



## Keisuk3

I was very suprised that my Theta DS Pro Basic 3a was very close sounding to Gumby. The Theta has more "moffat bass" and is slightly more coloured, but it still was shocking to hear the similiarities.


----------



## Ichos

sheldaze said:


> On your profile, I see headphones listed. Headphones such as the HD800S can benefit from the slight resolution improvement in the Yggy (versus Gumby). But it would depend on your entire setup.
> 
> In the blind, one could say a $200 amplifier would not be able to support the resolution upgrade from Gumby to Yggy. But say a $2000 amplifier should. But it would really help to answer more accurately if you described your complete setup. Gumby is all most people need (and maybe more than some people need - hence Bimby and Modi).



Thank's!
My headphone amp is mjolnir 2 with 1-2 pairs of tubes.
BUT 
I am first of all a speaker guy so my prime interest is gumby vs yaggy for my 2 channel set up.
Which is Elac BS312 + Azur 851A nearfield in a heavily treated room able to hear even the most subtle and small details.
Music is only classical if that matters.
OR should i wait for the gumby A2 upgrade?


----------



## davisman

Only you can answer if you should, or can wait. I would definitely check and see what the upgrade process looks like in your location.

The A2 has convinced me to hang onto my bifrost so that when the time comes I have something to listen too while I wait. TBH it doesn't take much to convince me to keep something instead of selling it. My inner hoarder is hard to control at times.


----------



## earChasm (Oct 23, 2018)

pure5152 said:


> For you guys who have the Gumby, what kind of music source quality are you listening to?  Do you think the difference would be notable and worth the upgrade for someone mostly streaming Tidal (flac 16bit/44.1kHz) from something like the mimby?  Or is Tidal not high-enough quality to make use of the Gumby's 19bit resolution?


Almost all my music are in flac. Mostly redbook but some in higher formats, and I do have some albums in 320 mp3 and they sound great.

I bought the Gumby because the Bifrost (which I loved with the Asgard 2) was not a good match with my HDVA600. The Gungnir G5 MultiBit is the best DAC I ever owned or additioned at home. It just clicks with my personal taste and I would pay double if I had to.


Disclaimer:
Yes, my experience is limited and I'm sure there are better DACs out there but I don't care. Go away ...


----------



## earChasm

davisman said:


> The A2 has convinced me to hang onto my bifrost so that when the time comes I have something to listen too while I wait.


Smart move, I regret selling my Bifrost G5.


----------



## Dana Reed

earChasm said:


> Smart move, I regret selling my Bifrost G5.


I’ve kept the mimby, bimby, and now gumby.  The mimby for the workout room 2-channel, bimby for the work headphone setup, and the gumby in the living room two channel (balanced feeding the Vidars and SE the Lyr2)


----------



## Ichos

davisman said:


> Only you can answer if you should, or can wait. I would definitely check and see what the upgrade process looks like in your location.
> 
> The A2 has convinced me to hang onto my bifrost so that when the time comes I have something to listen too while I wait. TBH it doesn't take much to convince me to keep something instead of selling it. My inner hoarder is hard to control at times.



Of course i can wait!
The problem though is that the A2 isn't officially announced yet!I
The truth is that i am OK with gumby but you know how this hobby works!


----------



## davisman

I should have said 'willing to wait', cuz I know that most of the time that applies to me


----------



## m usicguy

So?

I know schiit doesnt really do massive new models or upgrades.   I have been waiting for a year to buy my Gumby!!  I have a gen 5 usb eitr.  Bested my U12.  So  Yggdrsil had analog 2 update.  So any info on the Gumby upgrades?

Musicguy

Rocking a Gustard x22 right now.  Good with tubes on my lyr 2 and dark sounding headphones.


----------



## m usicguy

↑
Only you can answer if you should, or can wait. I would definitely check and see what the upgrade process looks like in your location.

The A2 has convinced me to hang onto my bifrost so that when the time comes I have something to listen too while I wait. TBH it doesn't take much to convince me to keep something instead of selling it. My inner hoarder is hard to control at times.
Of course i can wait!
The problem though is that the A2 isn't officially announced yet!I
The truth is that i am OK with gumby but you know how this hobby works!


May i ask what the "A2" you are talking about.   

music guy


----------



## Ichos

I am talking about the Gungnir new analog board upgrade.
All current production gugnirs are delivered with this new silent upgrade.
As it is discussed here.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Ichos said:


> I am talking about the Gungnir new analog board upgrade.
> All current production gugnirs are delivered with this new silent upgrade.
> As it is discussed here.



I have the older versions of both the Gumby and Yggy A1 ... I've upgraded the Yggy to USB 5 and I've upgraded the older Gumby numerous times to multibit and upgraded the USB board twice since it is one of the first to come out

I am thinking that buying a brand new Gumby would probably be best since I also want to set up another listening area. I just want to definitely know if the current production Gumby model is it fact the new version and if truly is a step up in SQ


----------



## JerryLeeds

Sorry .... I haven't been paying attention to the thread ... I'll do some searching to see if anyone is hearing any improvement in SQ with this 'silent' upgrade ... 

This is what I have been waiting for ... SQ improvements


----------



## RCBinTN

Ichos said:


> I am talking about the Gungnir new analog board upgrade.
> All current production gugnirs are delivered with this new silent upgrade.
> As it is discussed here.



According to whom, exactly? 
And, how does a person verify A2?


----------



## Dana Reed

RCBinTN said:


> According to whom, exactly?
> And, how does a person verify A2?


According to the rumor mill, any Gumby with SN starting with "B" has the analog 2 board.  I purchased mine recently and it has this board, but I don't have an original to compare to, only a bimby and mimby.  Between those, once I account for level matching of balanced vs single ended, I can't really say I can tell those apart.  Clearly they measure differently (bimby vs gumby vs mimby), but I haven't seen any measurements comparing the purported gumby A2 with A1, as has been shown with yggy.

At this point, I'm just figuring they all sound great and I use each of them in different rigs office vs bedroom, vs workout room vs 2 channel.


----------



## davisman (Oct 25, 2018)

I guess it is possible they silently upgraded the Gumby without alerting people they could upgrade their previous version. That is if you assume they are swamped and do not want a bunch of Gumby upgrade orders before Christmas.

I kind of doubt it though tbh.


----------



## Ichos

RCBinTN said:


> According to whom, exactly?
> And, how does a person verify A2?



As you know I am not allowed to post links.
Do some research and you will find all the information you seek.
There are photos of the new board and the differences are obvious.
As for sound there are people who have listened both and they suggest that they sound slightly differently.
Schiit officially have denied the "upgrade".


----------



## davisman

After looking into it more I would guess that it is probably true the Gumby has the new A2 board.

That's fine with me, although I did base my purchase decision based on the reviews of the original Gumby. Not super happy about that, but I AM happy with how it sounds and preforms, and at the end of the day that is what matters.


----------



## 565hunter

davisman said:


> After looking into it more I would guess that it is probably true the Gumby has the new A2 board.
> 
> That's fine with me, although I did base my purchase decision based on the reviews of the original Gumby. Not super happy about that, but I AM happy with how it sounds and preforms, and at the end of the day that is what matters.


I would love to see a photo of the "new A2 board" and will gladly share a photo of my naked Gumby purchased November 2017 for comparison.


----------



## davisman

I was thinking about doing that. I only hesitate because I don't want to turn it off, although I think they newer version takes less time to stabilize. I heard the most difference after about 24 hours.


----------



## Ichos (Oct 26, 2018)

As I said do some research.
At the new board you will find the following print  "Gungnir-UpAna-2.0" Schiit Audio 2017.


----------



## rkw (Oct 26, 2018)

565hunter said:


> I would love to see a photo of the "new A2 board" and will gladly share a photo of my naked Gumby purchased November 2017 for comparison.


There is a photo here: https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/HrNM1yv.jpg
The changes are small, more like a production update rather than a redesign as in Yggdrasil Analog 2.


----------



## m usicguy

anybody recieve one this week serial B?  gold caps?

musicguy


----------



## Ableza

m usicguy said:


> gold caps?


----------



## m usicguy

thev analog 2 board have gold labeled caps.  the analog 1 had silver covered caps.  this is what noticed.

musicguy


----------



## RCBinTN (Oct 29, 2018)

Damn @Ableza -- I almost spit up my bier 

Don't disassemble your Gumby - voids the warranty, my friends.
Just go by the serial number ... I completed my research assignment.

Enjoy the ride and your music!
RCBinTN


----------



## earChasm

@RCBinTN -- you forgot to drop the mic, don't take it home :.b


----------



## pure5152 (Oct 30, 2018)

ROLLING EDIT:  Immediate first impressions upon turn on (no warm-up; vs eitr + mimby; into lyr 3 + pmx2)

Much punchier (bass seems to extend further)
Much greater air and blackground (voices, drums have such beautiful taper-off into nothingness)
Layering and imaging is _MUCH_ better (you can hear individual singers and instruments so much easier... it's actually almost overwhelming vs what I've experienced before)
Not a hint of grain at all (immediately noticeable with higher piano notes)
This exceeded my (already absurdly high) expectations.  I'm impressed.


----------



## earChasm

pure5152 said:


> Layering and imaging is _MUCH_ better (you can hear individual singers and instruments so much easier... it's actually almost overwhelming vs what I've experienced before)


Yeah, I had the same but now I'm used to it:.)


----------



## RCBinTN

pure5152 said:


> ROLLING EDIT:  Immediate first impressions upon turn on (no warm-up; vs eitr + mimby; into lyr 3 + pmx2)
> 
> Much punchier (bass seems to extend further)
> Much greater air and blackground (voices, drums have such beautiful taper-off into nothingness)
> ...



Happy Listening ... enjoy your music!


----------



## Ichos

m usicguy said:


> thev analog 2 board have gold labeled caps.  the analog 1 had silver covered caps.  this is what noticed.
> 
> musicguy



Nope!
Well i mean that there was a revision even at the analog 1 board.
The original was with normal caps but after a while they opted for the gold ones.
I have opened mine to install the usb 5 board and the caps are gold.


----------



## RCBinTN

Jason has written on his thread about the need to substitute PCB components at times due to supply and/or quality issues.

The caps are likely one of those components that get substituted.
Substituting similar-spec caps on an existing PCB design isn't a "change," as long as the caps perform the same as did the old caps.

Re-design of the Gumby's analog stage, now that is a "change" because the DAC will function differently.
A design change needs to first be validated (that it works) and then verified (that it can be repeated in production and is stable in use).

FYI, friends.
RCB


----------



## Ichos

That's right!


----------



## RCBinTN (Oct 31, 2018)

I'm an old QA guy ...


----------



## Mizicke5273

Question for you Gungnir Multibit owners: If you were not going to leave Gungnir on all the time and actually power it off when not in use, would you still have bought it?  I am considering a Gungnir Multibit, but would only be powering it on when I'd be using it.  Would it be a waste to get a Gungnir Multibit then?


----------



## JerryLeeds

I leave if off most of the time ... I don't have enough time to listen to music most days

On days where I will have time to listen ... I just turn the DAC on when I get up in the morning ... So it will be running for a few hours ... I really can't hear much of a difference any way ... I guess it is a cheap hobby for me since I don't have great hearing. 

But if you're a beagle then be my guest and have everything turned on all of the time ... 

Thinking to myself ... Since my oven is better once it gets hot ... should I just leave it on all the time?


----------



## rkw

JerryLeeds said:


> Thinking to myself ... Since my oven is better once it gets hot ... should I just leave it on all the time?


That's exactly what you'd do with a British Aga oven:
https://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/not-so-easy-bake-oven/


----------



## bildar

I leave mine on for the weekend or all day if I have the day off from work. Otherwise I turn it off. I have a newer one with B serial number. It sounds amazing even ice cold.


----------



## davisman

rkw said:


> That's exactly what you'd do with a British Aga oven:
> https://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/not-so-easy-bake-oven/



I was checking those out about a month ago or so. They have some models that can be used for hot water and for heat radiators. Way outside my budget but pretty cool!


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I’d have no problem turning mine on and off as needed.


----------



## DMck2000

Hey guys, I have a gumby, and am curious about the Schiit Eitr. I have been using optical and USB since I got the unit back in mid 2016 (I believe), and am curious if I should go for it or not? I heard that Gen 6 is on the way and should be built by Schiit themselves this time around. Is it worth it to go for the Gen 5 Eitr if a Gen 6 Eitr could be on the way soon?


----------



## artur9

DMck2000 said:


> Hey guys, I have a gumby, and am curious about the Schiit Eitr. I have been using optical and USB since I got the unit back in mid 2016 (I believe), and am curious if I should go for it or not? I heard that Gen 6 is on the way and should be built by Schiit themselves this time around. Is it worth it to go for the Gen 5 Eitr if a Gen 6 Eitr could be on the way soon?


When did Gen5 USB come out?

Personally, I'm waiting for the Schiit USB.  Hoping that other upgrades will also be available at the same time.  I do not use my USB on the Gumby.


----------



## RCBinTN

I have Gen5 on my GMB and it's a very solid USB connection. The Gen5 SQ beats toslink IMO.
The Gen6 will be a game changer, as Mike describes in his Darko interview ... total new USB design!


----------



## tamleo (Nov 12, 2018)

Hello everybody,
Can anyone tell me about the bass character on the Gumby? I have owned the Mumby for 2 years and want to upgrade now. Though I appreciate the mids and treble quality on my Mumby, i think the the bass is soft and thick.
Thank you


----------



## Dr.J

Hello everyone &
I have a Gungnir with USB2 and recently corresponded with someone having the latest edition of the Gungnir. I don't use USB, but the fellow thought the latest version of Gumby is still worth upgrading to. Can anyone here confirm this? Will there soon be a version with USB6?
Thanks,
John


----------



## DMck2000

RCBinTN said:


> I have Gen5 on my GMB and it's a very solid USB connection. The Gen5 SQ beats toslink IMO.
> The Gen6 will be a game changer, as Mike describes in his Darko interview ... total new USB design!


Oh dude awesome. That will be very interesting! I'll buy Eitr soon and then when Gen 6 Eitr comes out I will get that for my Gumby


----------



## RCBinTN

Very interesting indeed.
USB reinvented by Mike of Schiit Audio ... a genius.

I don't remember the details of the Darko interview, but it's posted on either Jason or Mike's thread.
I think Mike said it will launch in early 2019 ... please don't quote me


----------



## DMck2000

RCBinTN said:


> Very interesting indeed.
> USB reinvented by Mike of Schiit Audio ... a genius.
> 
> I don't remember the details of the Darko interview, but it's posted on either Jason or Mike's thread.
> I think Mike said it will launch in early 2019 ... please don't quote me


Oh I saw that on my recommended feed. Definitely going to check it out when I get the chance


----------



## luckybaer

Mizicke5273 said:


> Question for you Gungnir Multibit owners: If you were not going to leave Gungnir on all the time and actually power it off when not in use, would you still have bought it?  I am considering a Gungnir Multibit, but would only be powering it on when I'd be using it.  Would it be a waste to get a Gungnir Multibit then?


I've never heard of anyone turning it off when not in use (unless they were going to be away from home for a while).  If you've got concerns about leaving it on, then either accept you may not be using it at its fullest, or get a different DAC.

Personally, if I had concerns about leaving it on, or if my situation precluded me from leaving it on, I would have purchased another DAC.


----------



## koover

Leaving it on shouldn’t be an issue unless you’re trying to save every penny you can on your power bill. I haven’t heard to date, anyone’s blowing up or shorting out causing a fire when left on. Perfectly safe and it’s like leaving your power conditioner on at all times for your system. If you don’t have one of those, id look into one of those for sure.


----------



## Mizicke5273

I just have something against leaving a $1.3k piece of hardware on while I am at work or out of the house.  I just cannot see letting it sit there, wasting electricity and making needless heat.  It has been mentioned that Gungnir doesn't use all that much electricity, but it is still a waste.  And the room it will be in does get quite hot in the summer, so any unnecessary heat is highly frowned upon by me.  That is why I asked you, owners of Gungnir, if you would still have bought it, fully knowing it would never stay on more than a couple of hours.  Yeah, maybe one day I would change my mind and end up leaving it on; but for now it wouldn't be.  

I have thought about buying the Gungnir and just trying it out, to see how much I actually like it and if I think it sounds worth the $1.3k price; even when just powered up.  If not, I could just return it for the restocking fee.  Which is what I am trying to feel out from the responses or if I should just move on for now.


----------



## sheldaze

Mizicke5273 said:


> I should just move on for now.


 Here are some alternatives, most would consider for your application:

Holo Cyan
Metrum Amethyst
RME ADI-2 DAC
Soekris dac1541
Rolling changes not withstanding, I have personally experimented with the original Gungnir Multibit, from cold. I would not recommend use without at least 24-hours warm-up. Say for weekend listening, turn on the evening before - leave on over the weekend. Or, as you said, try it for 15 days - let your ears decide.


----------



## koover (Nov 13, 2018)

Mizicke5273 said:


> I just have something against leaving a $1.3k piece of hardware on while I am at work or out of the house.  I just cannot see letting it sit there, wasting electricity and making needless heat.  It has been mentioned that Gungnir doesn't use all that much electricity, but it is still a waste.  And the room it will be in does get quite hot in the summer, so any unnecessary heat is highly frowned upon by me.  That is why I asked you, owners of Gungnir, if you would still have bought it, fully knowing it would never stay on more than a couple of hours.  Yeah, maybe one day I would change my mind and end up leaving it on; but for now it wouldn't be.
> 
> I have thought about buying the Gungnir and just trying it out, to see how much I actually like it and if I think it sounds worth the $1.3k price; even when just powered up.  If not, I could just return it for the restocking fee.  Which is what I am trying to feel out from the responses or if I should just move on for now.


The short answer as you asked again?... I would purchase over and over again knowing (which I did) that I wouldn’t power it down. I wouldn’t have bought it if my intention was to power down after each session. The Schiit developers recommend that you don’t power down your “multibit” as it’s perfectly safe to leave it on 

I live in Phoenix and you want to talk about getting warm in any room even with the AC blowing snowflakes?
It’s obviously by your last response that you already made up your mind so you really should just do what YOU feel is best. It’s just a shame you’ll miss out on this wonderful DAC.
Good luck in your search.


----------



## RCBinTN

The GMB just sounds so musical and natural to me ... I hate to think about searching for another DAC especially at the price.
I have a surge protector for piece of mind ... I unplug it only when the Thor thunderbolts arrive. It's in a dark corner of the house 

If you're not listening w/ resolving headphones, you may not even hear a difference anyway.


----------



## FredoIsFishing

Maybe my ears are bad but I can't tell if my Gumby has been on for two minutes or two weeks. I can't hear anything different.

I also couldn't tell any difference between what it sounded like when brand new and after keeping it on for two weeks.

I seem to be the only one though.


----------



## artur9

It sounds better warmed up (left on) but it sounds great cold.  At least, better than some other things I've had even after warming them up for a month (sabre, anyone?)


----------



## luckybaer

Mizicke5273 said:


> I just have something against leaving a $1.3k piece of hardware on while I am at work or out of the house.  I just cannot see letting it sit there, wasting electricity and making needless heat.  It has been mentioned that Gungnir doesn't use all that much electricity, but it is still a waste.  And the room it will be in does get quite hot in the summer, so any unnecessary heat is highly frowned upon by me.  That is why I asked you, owners of Gungnir, if you would still have bought it, fully knowing it would never stay on more than a couple of hours.  Yeah, maybe one day I would change my mind and end up leaving it on; but for now it wouldn't be.
> 
> I have thought about buying the Gungnir and just trying it out, to see how much I actually like it and if I think it sounds worth the $1.3k price; even when just powered up.  If not, I could just return it for the restocking fee.  Which is what I am trying to feel out from the responses or if I should just move on for now.


Move on.  Why create discord in your life when there are so many other products out there that don't create conflict with your values?


----------



## earChasm

artur9 said:


> It sounds better warmed up (left on) but it sounds great cold.  At least, better than some other things I've had even after warming them up for a month (sabre, anyone?)


This! At this moment, with only the DACs I have experience with... YES, I would buy the Gumby G5 even if I had to turn it off each day. My experience with different DACs is limited tho.



luckybaer said:


> Move on.  Why create discord in your life when there are so many other products out there that don't create conflict with your values?


This! IMO, probably the best advice yet...


----------



## luckybaer

FredoIsFishing said:


> Maybe my ears are bad but I can't tell if my Gumby has been on for two minutes or two weeks. I can't hear anything different.
> 
> I also couldn't tell any difference between what it sounded like when brand new and after keeping it on for two weeks.
> 
> I seem to be the only one though.


Here is my experience.  

I once had to turn my Gumby off for a few hours.  When I went back to listen (via headphones and my AURALiC Taurus MkII), I didn’t notice the music sounding badly or differently.  Then, about 30 minutes later, I noticed the music opening up with better separation while seeming more detailed.  Was it the DAC?  My amp?  My ears acclimating to the music?  Who knows?!


----------



## tamleo

Hello guys,
Will the Gumby perform at its best if I don't let the Gumby keep turning on but warming it up with the heat from an amplifier? Thank you


----------



## rick3333

rick3333 said:


> The difference for me compared to the bifrost multibit is hard for me to quantify...... i was an early adopter of the bifrost and upgraded to uber before upgrading to gen 2 usb and multibit. I guess i had the bifrost 6+ years and all i can say is that the sound from the gungnir sounds less congested to my ears, however its a bit brighter in the treble . I could not afford £1100 for a new gungnir multibit so decided to by one used (i am the 3rd owner).... i paid £395. Soundwise i have left it on for a week so far and find the Delta Sigma chip to be quite good. I am 55 so my hearing has deteriorated compared to say a teenagers. The sound is about on par with the bifrost multibit so i am looking forward to the Gen 5 usb and multibit upgrade for the gungnir.... Apologies if i am not describing the sound properly.... I very rarely post and have only been a member for 2 years. It was always my intention to source a gungnir DS secondhand because of the price and then upgrade. I will do my best to give a more coherent opinion about the sound when i have listened to the dac for another 3 or 4 weeks as this will give me time to play my music and find out the gungnirs signature soundwise. By the way i listen for 8 to 10 hours a day when i get the chance.


Well its been over a month or so since i switched this on and i have decided to get the multibit upgrade as soon as funds allow then add a Mjolnir 2 to the mix and change my headphones from AKG K812 over to SENNHEISER HD800 S Balanced. The DS version is Ok but  i feel i am missing the multibit sound, i find the brightness of the  DS gungnir a bit much for my ears...... Ideally i will run the dac and headphone amp balanced and will wait for GEN 6 USB availability before doing the upgrade. Glad i got it and thankfully upgradeable too.


----------



## Don Quichotte

tamleo said:


> Hello guys,
> Will the Gumby perform at its best if I don't let the Gumby keep turning on but warming it up with the heat from an amplifier? Thank you


I really doubt it will!


----------



## artur9

tamleo said:


> Hello guys,
> Will the Gumby perform at its best if I don't let the Gumby keep turning on but warming it up with the heat from an amplifier? Thank you


The "warming up" is not really a thermal phenomenon.  It's more like the internal components reaching optimum performance and the clocks stabilizing.

Taking the phrase "warm up" literally is thus a no go.


----------



## RCBinTN

luckybaer said:


> Here is my experience.
> 
> I once had to turn my Gumby off for a few hours.  When I went back to listen (via headphones and my AURALiC Taurus MkII), I didn’t notice the music sounding badly or differently.  Then, about 30 minutes later, I noticed the music opening up with better separation while seeming more detailed.  Was it the DAC?  My amp?  My ears acclimating to the music?  Who knows?!



I think your experience is typical of a GMB that has previously reached thermal equilibrium.
It only takes a long time to equilibrate on first break-in. After that, it becomes stable much more quickly.
I really doubt the amp changes its performance much at all ... I know my Bryston doesn't and the Taurus is a similar-type of amp.

I've heard the same with my GMB ... the SQ relaxes on warm-up after a short time. Happy listening!


----------



## jbarrentine

RCBinTN said:


> Damn @Ableza -- I almost spit up my bier
> 
> Don't disassemble your Gumby - voids the warranty, my friends.
> 
> RCBinTN



You cannot void a warranty by doing such a thing. They might state that it voids the warranty, but under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act such a thing is illegal.


----------



## RCBinTN

jbarrentine said:


> You cannot void a warranty by doing such a thing. They might state that it voids the warranty, but under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act such a thing is illegal.



Feel free to charge ahead, mate.
It's your device.


----------



## auvgeek (Nov 26, 2018)

Does anybody have issues with resonance with their Gumby?

I received my new Gumby (directly purchased from Schiit) about two weeks ago -- sounded great after about 48 hrs of warm up, but then I started getting this weird resonance or microphonics. It does seem pretty repeatable, and happens with both instruments (like sometimes during the guitar on Dire Straits "Brother's in Arms" or the start of RHCP "Snow (Hey Oh)", just off the top of my head) or sometimes with vocals, both male and female.

I've tried two amps with two headphones and several music sources (including tidal HIFI). Haven't had this issue before with other DACs (Theta DSPro Prime IIIa), but none of them were as resolving as the Gumby A2. It's really frustrating and makes some music almost un-listenable, but I can't tell conclusively if it's the DAC or the recordings or something else. Sadly I don't have another DAC to compare to at the moment, and I hate to pay to send it back to Schiit just for them to say it's fine. I don't want to blame the recordings because it happens on what I thought were reasonably well recorded material but it's possible the DAC just isn't forgiving. Headphones used are modded HE-6 with Schiit Saga and vintage Pass speaker amp (Threshold Stasis 150 II) and DT-150 with Project Polaris. The issue does not occur with the DT-150 out of my laptop out, but obviously that's not particularly high quality.

I've tried with both the stock power cables and aftermarket power cables (Cerious Technologies graphene extreme). Interconnects are all no-name stuff that has always been fine before. Been thinking about upgrading to Anticables or something in the $50/cable range but haven't bothered yet.

Any thoughts?


----------



## RCBinTN (Nov 26, 2018)

I don't have a problem like that ... sounds rough!
To me, it sounds like an issue up-stream of the DAC, but it could be the DAC itself. Not a downstream (amp) issue.

You should be inside the 15-day return window ... I recommend you e-mail Schiit for technical advice.
www.info@schiit.com

Good luck!
RCB


----------



## auvgeek (Nov 26, 2018)

Sadly, not within the 15 day window -- it was a birthday gift so it was out of the 15 days before I even plugged it in, and then I was pretty sure it was my vintage amp so I figured I'd try a different amp/headphones (which took a week cuz I had to buy a headphone amp), and then I was out of town for a week. Not making excuses, just saying it's definitely not returnable. I'm sure I can work things out with Schiit directly, but I was curious if anyone had a similar issue (either caused by the DAC or upstream gear) before bothering them and potentially paying to send it in for testing. I'd guess the failure rates are absurdly low on their DACs, hence my original assumption that it was the amp or headphones.

What else could it be upstream of the DAC? Any ideas on super well recorded material I can test to see? I think I need a bigger selection of well-recorded music (ideally rock) to tell if it's just the fact that the DAC is more resolving than I'm used to and my music is poorly recorded or mastered. At least I've ruled out the amp and 'ducer.

Edit: Been getting PMs re location -- I'm in Baltimore if anyone wants to help me out with a comparison. Can come to you with my Polaris + DT-150, or I'm happy to offer a listen to my HE-6 + Saga + vintage Nelson Pass amp if anyone feels like comparing at my place (not lugging that amp around).


----------



## luckybaer

auvgeek said:


> Does anybody have issues with resonance with their Gumby?
> 
> I received my new Gumby (directly purchased from Schiit) about two weeks ago -- sounded great after about 48 hrs of warm up, but then I started getting this weird resonance or microphonics. It does seem pretty repeatable, and happens with both instruments (like sometimes during the guitar on Dire Straits "Brother's in Arms" or the start of RHCP "Snow (Hey Oh)", just off the top of my head) or sometimes with vocals, both male and female.
> 
> ...


Which input are you using to feed Gumby?  USB?  Coax?  Optical?

Have you tried turning it off for a while?  And, if feeding from your PC via USB, try turning off both the Gumby and the PC.

As a prior poster suggested, contact Schiit customer service.  They are good about troubleshooting via email.

Hope you don’t need to return/exchange it.


----------



## auvgeek (Nov 26, 2018)

luckybaer said:


> Which input are you using to feed Gumby?  USB?  Coax?  Optical?
> 
> Have you tried turning it off for a while?  And, if feeding from your PC via USB, try turning off both the Gumby and the PC.


Good points. I was using USB from my 2017 Lenovo T470s (ubuntu 16.04). No bad clock light. Both the Gumby and laptop had power cycled a few times. I haven't tried bringing the Gumby up from a cold start again, which I'll probably do before sending it in.

I just decided to try my old USB converter and feed the Gumby via coax. I think it might have the issue might have gone away, at the cost of a little resolution (it's not as good of a converter as the Gen5 USB). I'll listen over the next few days and see if it helps continually. It's pretty hard to tell because the Gen 5 is more resolving/analytical and also noticeably louder (and I don't have a quick and easy way to volume match).

I'll ping Schiit custy service, but I genuinely believe the issue might be with my music and I was trying to resolve it without wasting their time.


----------



## auvgeek (Nov 27, 2018)

Okay, so just a follow-up for anybody curious:

Annoyingly the problem appears to be with my computer. The Gen5 USB works with a different machine (also a lenovo running ubuntu 16.04), at least briefly. The Gen5 USB via my machine reproduces the problem (with any usb port). Weirdly, my old external XMOS USB converter (spdif to the Gumby via coax) works fine with my machine. Also weird is that I don't think the problem happens 100% of the time with Gen5 USB -- it certainly didn't happen the first week I had it.

Switching between the external converter and the native Gen5 is the approximately same sound quality (at least to my ears in a brief AB test). So I guess using the external converter is an alright solution in the short term, but I really am confused why it's happening and I didn't really want to keep hundreds of dollars worth of USB converter stuff around (nice cables + the converter itself). Tried apt-get dist-upgrade, apt-get update, reboot, etc, with no change. I don't think linux is the issue, since the other computer that worked was also running 16.04.

Guess I'll just wait until Schiit releases their new USB and by then I'll probably have graduated with my PhD and returned this computer to my lab anyway so I'll have a different computer regardless sometime in the next several months.

Anyway, I guess the point of this post is to always try with a different computer, even if you think it couldn't possibly fix the issue.


----------



## RCBinTN (Nov 30, 2018)

Well, sounds like you made progress. At least have a listenable rig now.

FWIW ... when I got into this hobby, I bought an Uber Bifrost and was using a USB connection from my work computer/iTunes. It was a Windoze 7 machine.
Had all kinds of trouble getting the BiFrost drivers installed and working, then the USB was very noisy and basically an inferior connection. I think it was USB 2 back then.
Now that I've graduated to a Macbook Pro, I have no USB issues whatsoever.
The Macbook requires no drivers and gives rock-solid performance with the Gen 5. It's my best connection, beating the toslink.
One thing that did help the Macbook was disabling flash. It gets in the way of almost everything, including music playback.

Edit: corrected the need for "no" drivers whilst using the Mac - GMB! Oops, sorry.


----------



## SilverEars

@RCBinTN

Gumy and BHA-1 is the best combo out there.  BHA-1 is the most transaparent (I heard) to very awsome Gumby DAC!

BHA-1 makes every headphone wide sound stage.  Dunno why.


----------



## auvgeek (Nov 30, 2018)

RCBinTN said:


> Well, sounds like you made progress. At least have a listenable rig now.
> 
> FWIW ... when I got into this hobby, I bought an Uber Bifrost and was using a USB connection from my work computer/iTunes. It was a Windoze 7 machine.
> Had all kinds of trouble getting the BiFrost drivers installed and working, then the USB was very noisy and basically an inferior connection. I think it was USB 2 back then.
> ...


Interestingly, my older Breeze converter (with upgraded clocks) sounds pretty terrific. I expected the galvanic isolation of the Gen5 USB to kick its butt, but I can't really tell a difference, especially after the Breeze has had 48 hrs of warmup. Schiit custy service said to try the Wyrd, but I'll prolly wait for their new USB implementation to come out before trying anything else.

I used to have a Macbook (2011 MBPr), which worked fine with my old DS Gungnir Gen 2 USB, and various USB to spdif converters I had to my Theta DSPro Basic IIIa. Optical out of the laptop directly to the DAC was terrible comparatively. But now I need Linux for work -- low level interfacing with hardware (robotics) is just terrible on anything else and some software (namely ROS) only works on Linux. I can't stand Windoze (my boss calls it a 40GB, mouse-enabling virus) and apple hardware doesn't play nice with Linux, so I went Lenovo with a clean Linux install, no windoze partition.


----------



## RCBinTN

Man, I'll tell ya --- you speak a language with which I am not familiar! But hey, I'm a geezer who's not chasing rabbit holes any longer. (See the next post).
I've heard rumors that the new Schiit USB will be literally the best thing since sliced cheese, so agree with you there - stay tuned


----------



## RCBinTN (Dec 2, 2018)

SilverEars said:


> @RCBinTN
> 
> Gumby and BHA-1 is the best combo out there.  BHA-1 is the most transparent (I heard) to very awesome Gumby DAC!
> 
> BHA-1 makes every headphone wide sound stage.  Dunno why.



I agree 100%, @SilverEars, well said!

I reached the GMB level first, and was looking for the right amp.
My goal was to drive both the HD800 (#1 goal) and LCD-series (#2 goal) planars. With one DAC/amp.

I went thru the Mjolnir1 and HDVA600. Nope.
Then, on luck, I stumbled upon the BHA-1. I liked the design and the company Bryston, so, I bought the BHA-1 unheard.
I know, it's unheard-of 

Well, the result of my searches, as you wrote, the GMB + BHA-1 just works, and works great.
The BHA-1 just gets out of the way ... it lets the GMB do its magic!
I think the transparency of the amp is what creates the uber sound stage (that really comes from the DAC, if it's not constrained by the amp).

The SQ is also very neutral, meaning un-colored by the DAC nor amp, which was always my ultimate goal.
I will put my current rig up against the Yggy + WA5 (which I have heard) and at 1/4 of the price.

The BHA-1 is solid as a rock, with a 20-year warranty (!) and it sounds great.
Y'all on the fence for a SS amp - give it a try.

Cheers all,
RCB

ps. I'm not affiliated with Bryston in any way, just a satisfied customer!


----------



## auvgeek (Nov 30, 2018)

RCBinTN said:


> Man, I'll tell ya --- you speak a language with which I am not familiar! But hey, I'm a geezer who's not chasing rabbit holes any longer. (See the next post).
> I've heard rumors that the new Schiit USB will be literally the best thing since sliced cheese, so agree with you there - stay tuned


Yeah, sorry. Didn't meant to use too much jargon, but I was typing fast and that's the result, haha.

Anyway, dang this DAC sounds gooood! First time I've heard the HE-6 anywhere near its potential. Do I now want a 4-screw HE-6 and First Watt amp? Yeah. But I could live with this for a while.


----------



## RCBinTN

Hey ... no worries, mate! I just know nothing about Linux, you know.

You made the right choice, with the GMB. 
Your next decisions depend on many other variables, such as the type of music you listen to.

For example, if you like metal or other bass-heavy music, that will affect your choice of headphones.
Or instead, classical, then you'll be going for the HD800 (trust me!).

The amplifier can certainly change the sound of the music, the shape of the curve.
I've heard warm (tube) amps that on first listen sound OK, but would soon become tiresome to me.

That's why I decided a long time ago to look for the most reference (flat curve) amp I could find.

It's a fun journey. Good luck with it!


----------



## Blueshound24

RCBinTN said:


> I agree 100%, @SilverEars, well said!
> 
> I reached the GMB level first, and was looking for the right amp.
> My goal was to drive both the HD800 (#1 goal) and LCD-series (#2 goal) planars. With one DAC/amp.
> ...




Just curious, are you using SE or balanced outs on the BHA-1? I've heard the SE isn't the best, and need to use the balanced to get the best out of it?


----------



## RCBinTN

Blueshound24 said:


> Just curious, are you using SE or balanced outs on the BHA-1? I've heard the SE isn't the best, and need to use the balanced to get the best out of it?



Hello @Blueshound24 thanks, I should have included that info.
The exact rig is: Macbook Pro 2014/JR23 (min. 16/44.1 FLAC) --> Wywires Platinum USB --> Gen5 USB / GMB --> Wywires Platinum balanced interconnects --> BHA-1 --> Wywires balanced HP cable --> HD800 or LCD-4

I believe that better cables and balanced connections give better SQ.
I've been working with Alex at Wywires for a few years. His Platinum cables are excellent.
http://www.wywires.com/

I tested the SE output of the BHA-1 only one time, when trying out the stock SE cable that came with the LCD-4 headphones.
The SQ was OK but the volume was a bit lower, I think that's to be expected.
I didn't really do a critical A/B between the LCD-4 stock cable and the Wywires Platinum balanced cable.
I plan to use the balanced cable going forward (the SE stock cable is the backup).

Hope this helps!
RCB

ps. I'm not affiliated with Wywires in any way, just a satisfied customer


----------



## Blueshound24 (Dec 5, 2018)

RCBinTN said:


> Hello @Blueshound24 thanks, I should have included that info.
> The exact rig is: Macbook Pro 2014/JR23 (min. 16/44.1 FLAC) --> Wywires Platinum USB --> Gen5 USB / GMB --> Wywires Platinum balanced interconnects --> BHA-1 --> Wywires balanced HP cable --> HD800 or LCD-4
> 
> I believe that better cables and balanced connections give better SQ.
> ...




Thanks for your info. It was only some impressions I read on some review regarding the better sound with the balanced outs. Don't know if it was accurate or not.


----------



## Boogie7910

I remember there being a fix for Gumby connected to PC optical to stop the constant relay clicking. I'm trying to find it. Has something to do with keeping the sound open and tricking the Gumby to think it's getting a constant signal or something like that. Anyone know what I'm talking about?


----------



## jbarrentine

This clicking crap is why I was initially interested in this dac and decided against it. Who wants to deal with that?


----------



## RCBinTN

If you're getting constant clicking from the DAC, then there's an issue with your upstream source.
Does the far-right LED also light up?

I don't get any clicking, only when the music changes bit depth (for example, 16/44.1 to 24/96), then the GMB clicks twice and stops.
My experience includes both USB (Gen5) and optical connections directly from the Macbook Pro to the GMB. Nothing else in between.

I suggest you contact Schiit Audio technical support, at info@schiit.com. 
Describe your rig and the issue, they will help you.


----------



## Dana Reed

RCBinTN said:


> If you're getting constant clicking from the DAC, then there's an issue with your upstream source.
> Does the far-right LED also light up?
> 
> I don't get any clicking, only when the music changes bit depth (for example, 16/44.1 to 24/96), then the GMB clicks twice and stops.
> ...


I can confirm mine only clicks when changing sample rate.  I have a TV on the optical, CD player on the coaxial, and Mac mini on the USB Gen 5.  Only the Mac has any source material that changed sample rate.  I haven’t tried using the optical out on the Mac to compare, since I need that input for the TV


----------



## RCBinTN

My rig is very simple: computer - GMB - amp - HPs.
I had been using USB between the computer and GMB, but the Gen 2 USB was unstable and would drop the music.

So I switched to optical. The Macbook Pro has an optical output in the headphone port, so a direct toslink to GMB.
That connection was very stable and allowed music listening w/o interruption.

Then, the GMB was up-graded to Gen 5 USB.
The Gen 5 connection is very stable, no music drops at all, and IMO better SQ than with the toslink.

The Gen 5 USB is now my preferred connection.
There is no clicking, other than when the Mac changes music sample rate as Dana Reed wrote.

Happy Listening!
RCB


----------



## Boogie7910 (Dec 7, 2018)

RCBinTN said:


> If you're getting constant clicking from the DAC, then there's an issue with your upstream source.
> Does the far-right LED also light up?
> 
> I don't get any clicking, only when the music changes bit depth (for example, 16/44.1 to 24/96), then the GMB clicks twice and stops.
> ...



I have a Gen5 Gumby. No clicks with USB. Clicks all the time with optical. It disengages when there is no sound, but as soon as windows makes a sound/chime which is often it will click on which gets annoying real fast and then disengage again. I would stay with USB except I recently put a Chord Mscaler to go before the dac which is taking the USB now and it's and connected to the Gumby (temporary until my Chord TT 2 arrives) via BNC and the clicks are just as bad as optical if not worse.


----------



## earChasm

I swore, this time I would be boss. Firm but honest, thus my audio stuff is off limit, period!



Spoiler: I have no spine


----------



## Rowethren

earChasm said:


> I swore, this time I would be boss. Firm but honest, thus my audio stuff is off limit, period!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: I have no spine



Cute cat! Gumby is perfect, not too hot not too cold


----------



## earChasm

Rowethren said:


> Gumby is perfect, not too hot not too cold


Ahahaha.... just right


----------



## RCBinTN

Boogie7910 said:


> I have a Gen5 Gumby. No clicks with USB. Clicks all the time with optical. It disengages when there is no sound, but as soon as windows makes a sound/chime which is often it will click on which gets annoying real fast and then disengage again. I would stay with USB except I recently put a Chord Mscaler to go before the dac which is taking the USB now and it's and connected to the Gumby (temporary until my Chord TT 2 arrives) via BNC and the clicks are just as bad as optical if not worse.



Interesting ... I was wondering if this whole "clicking" discussion was a Windoze problem.
There must be a way to disable local computer sounds, but I don't know how to do it in the Windoze environment.

I am using a Mac as my music server. It's very quiet, stable and easy ... no clicking on USB or optical.
There are likely others around Head-Fi who have faced the same issue. Maybe try over on the Yggdrasil thread?


----------



## Deftone (Dec 11, 2018)

The 4v XLR outputs would mean I need to turn my amp down a lot? but I’m already playing between 9-12 with no volume at 6-9 (just the way the Arcam works) I wouldn’t want to be stuck at 9-10.


----------



## sheldaze

Deftone said:


> The 4v XLR outputs would mean I need to turn my amp down a lot? but I’m already playing between 9-12 with no volume at 6-9 (just the way the Arcam works) I wouldn’t want to be stuck at 9-10.


 You should not need to compensate (turn down the volume) due to the additional voltage output from the source across XLR. The amplifier should step-down the volume (an internal, automatic compensation) via its XLR inputs.


----------



## Dr.J

Hello everyone & I’m wondering if anyone here has tried the Remedy reclocker with their Gungnir and if so, how did you like it?

Thanks,

John


----------



## Deftone

sheldaze said:


> You should not need to compensate (turn down the volume) due to the additional voltage output from the source across XLR. The amplifier should step-down the volume (an internal, automatic compensation) via its XLR inputs.



ok thanks for the info, ill go ahead and order a Gungnir.


----------



## Ramzal

Just got mine last week! Absolutely amazing DAC.


----------



## SilverEars (Dec 15, 2018)

It's interesting how a DAC can make a difference in how my HD6XX can sound.  I think it's the Gumby is (at least partly) responsible.  I get large volume of mid-bass and significant impact with tight bass response.  It doesn't sound as warm as other DAC I've tried.  People with various setups will probably say HD58X has more bass, but with Gumby HD6XX outputs significant bass, and seems more impactful.  It isn't warm bass with much decay, so it doesn't effect the sound all that much, but the Gumby does put out much clarity.

I'd recommend trying out the HD6XX, but my setup is Gumby to BHA-1, so different amping may vary the impression.  But I think Gumby is (at least partly) responsible for it's damped response (it doesn't sound really warm as you'd expect of generally the HD650).


----------



## SilverEars (Dec 15, 2018)

Blueshound24 said:


> Just curious, are you using SE or balanced outs on the BHA-1? I've heard the SE isn't the best, and need to use the balanced to get the best out of it?


Balanced is generally increases the width of the stage for some reason with the BHA-1.  But the amp is generally wide sounding even with single ended.  Certain headphones, it's most appropriate to go single ended, the ones that are more efficient to drive like the Utopia.  I think the dynamics maybe a bit too much balanced with such  sensitive cans, and it's characteristic being a bit too forward (at least for my liking).  It's interesting to see people drive Utopia straight out of Hugo 2, and talk about how small the stage of Utopia is.  Utopia tend to increase the stage depending on the amp (although not significantly so), and BHA-1 will increase it (because it characteristically generally does).

Interestingly, even though the Sennheiser HD6-- series are considered efficient enough, balanced is the way to go with them.  I think they need the increased dynamics.


----------



## RCBinTN

I can report the soundstage is amazingly wide with the GMB - BHA-1 - HD800 rig!
Haven't heard the HD6XX but I'm sure the GMB - BHA-1 can drive them very well.


----------



## mvn1

This is clearly in the realm of heresy and speculation... however...

I'm in the process of considering a new Headphone/Speaker rig, and the Gungnir/Freya will be cornerstone elements of this.

I wanted to get folks opinion on the future of the Gungnir. Its been around for a while, and we know that Schiit is working on a new USB implementation which may or may not be available as an upgradable part.

My question is - I am in no rush, however does anyone have any insight as to if we are going to see a refresh/update to the Gungnir anytime in the near future?


----------



## SilverEars

Man, I'm beginning to get an idea what Gumby interacts best with. I think dynamic driver transducer types.  I think it's no coincidence that HD6XX performs it's best out of it (as certain sources it can sound a bit warmer or wooly).  I wonder if it applies generally to the type of DACs that the Gumby falls under?


----------



## auvgeek (Dec 16, 2018)

mvn1 said:


> This is clearly in the realm of heresy and speculation... however...
> 
> I'm in the process of considering a new Headphone/Speaker rig, and the Gungnir/Freya will be cornerstone elements of this.
> 
> ...


So we think we've seen new analog boards for the Gungnir multibit, denoted by serial numbers starting with "B." However, Schiit has not formally, publicly acknowledged this as a new revision. So my guess is we will not see any updates besides the USB implementation for a while.

However, I do hope that Jason updates Freya shortly after the Aegir release. By a few people's accounts, Freya would be the weakest link in a Gumby -> Freya -> monoblock Aegirs -> ducers setup.


----------



## SilverEars

auvgeek said:


> So we think we've seen new analog boards for the Gungnir multibit, denoted by serial numbers starting with "B." However, Schiit has not formally, publicly acknowledged this as a new revision. So my guess is we will not see any updates besides the USB implementation for a while.
> 
> I do hope, however, the Jason updates Freya shortly after the Aegir release. By a few people's accounts, Freya would be the weakest link the Gumby -> Freya -> monoblock Aegir -> ducers.


I wish Gungnir had it's own volume control and acted like a pre-amp as well.


----------



## auvgeek (Dec 16, 2018)

SilverEars said:


> I wish Gungnir had it's own volume control and acted like a pre-amp as well.


Meh, I like it when components have dedicated purposes. 

Saga is an amazing SE preamp at an exceptional value. I've just heard a number of people wishing Freya had a lower noise floor, like the Saga. If you're using headphones (like the HE-6), there's no need to run Aegir as monoblocks so Saga would work just fine and sounds amazing. But there are real reasons for wanting balanced outs: supposedly a big deal with Yggy (not sure if that's true with Gumby) and it's the only way to monoblock two Aegirs for speakers.


----------



## Ableza

auvgeek said:


> Meh, I like it when components have dedicated purposes. .


^^ This.  Please don't junk up my DAC with preamp functions.  Thanks.


----------



## RCBinTN

SilverEars said:


> I wish Gungnir had it's own volume control and acted like a pre-amp as well.



Well, this is not gonna happen.

The best version of the Gungnir DAC is AKA the Gumby ... currently in production.
Multibit technology with the "B" serial number and Gen5 USB.
All the bells and whistles for a tidy $1,249.

Keep it warm and you won't be disappointed.

BTW, Schiit Audio sells a couple of very decent pre-amps that come with volume controls


----------



## Deftone

RCBinTN said:


> Well, this is not gonna happen.
> 
> The best version of the Gungnir DAC is AKA the Gumby ... currently in production.
> Multibit technology with the "B" serial number and Gen5 USB.
> ...



B serial number indicate a better firmware?


----------



## RCBinTN

So rumor on the forum has it ... same as the Yggy A2.


----------



## US Blues

Deftone said:


> B serial number indicate a better firmware?



All new analog section, likely derived from the Yggy upgrade.

btw- The upgrade to Yggy 2 from 1 is substantial in a very positive way.


----------



## rkw (Dec 16, 2018)

RCBinTN said:


> So rumor on the forum has it ... same as the Yggy A2.





US Blues said:


> All new analog section, likely derived from the Yggy upgrade.


Available information on the web (including photos of the original and updated Gumby circuit boards) suggests that it is a very minor update involving replacing a small number of parts and associated small change in the circuit board. It is probably a routine running production update due to changing parts vendors, optimizing production process, etc. The update is certainly not a redesigned analog section as happened with Yggy A2.


----------



## Dana Reed

Well, even if my Gumby with the B serial isn’t an A2 board, I still think it sounds great with my Maggies.  Also the Gen 5 USB is rock stable with my Mac mini.  I’d have a hard time parting with it if someone told me there was an upgrade.


----------



## US Blues

Dana Reed said:


> Well, even if my Gumby with the B serial isn’t an A2 board, I still think it sounds great with my Maggies.  Also the Gen 5 USB is rock stable with my Mac mini.  I’d have a hard time parting with it if someone told me there was an upgrade.



If Mike and Jason say it's an upgrade, send your unit it. You'll have no regrets.


----------



## earChasm

US Blues said:


> If Mike and Jason say it's an upgrade, send your unit it. You'll have no regrets.


Yeah, I think I'm with @Dana Reed on this one. First of all, I use my Gumby-B G5 on a daily basis for hours and don't want it gone for a few weeks. And two, better doesn't always sounds "better" to me. I rather buy the next version new, compare both and then decide what to do.


----------



## RCBinTN

The next upgrade opportunity may well be the proprietary Schiit Audio USB circuit - stay tuned, DAC fans


----------



## Ableza

RCBinTN said:


> The next upgrade opportunity may well be the proprietary Schiit Audio USB circuit - stay tuned, DAC fans


A little bird tells me it will be worth the wait.


----------



## US Blues

earChasm said:


> Yeah, I think I'm with @Dana Reed on this one. First of all, I use my Gumby-B G5 on a daily basis for hours and don't want it gone for a few weeks. And two, better doesn't always sounds "better" to me. I rather buy the next version new, compare both and then decide what to do.



That's a good strategy, a number of folks did that with Yggy when the upgrade appeared.


----------



## earChasm

Ableza said:


> A little bird tells me it will be worth the wait.


As in ?

Woke up this morning, smile with the rising sun
Three little birds, pitched by my doorstep
Singing sweet songs (hey now), of melodies pure and true
Singing, this is my message to you...


----------



## TJ Max

I've received a brand new Schiit Gungnir yesterday and I noticed that the digital coax port has a lot of wiggle play. Theres no problems with the sound, but I was wondering if this could be a cause for concern. I've already contacted Schiit about it and am waiting for a reply. But I also wanna know if any of you have experienced this.


----------



## Don Quichotte

A year ago when I had a Gumby it didn't have this problem.


----------



## Ableza

TJ Max said:


> I've received a brand new Schiit Gungnir yesterday and I noticed that the digital coax port has a lot of wiggle play. Theres no problems with the sound, but I was wondering if this could be a cause for concern. I've already contacted Schiit about it and am waiting for a reply. But I also wanna know if any of you have experienced this.


Tighten it up.


----------



## TJ Max

Ableza said:


> Tighten it up.



Is it really that simple?
I've never opened it before and I don't want to void the warranty.


----------



## Ableza

Contact them first and get their guidance first as the connector may be hard-mounted on a PCBoard and will require return for repair.


----------



## Voxata

TJ Max said:


> I've received a brand new Schiit Gungnir yesterday and I noticed that the digital coax port has a lot of wiggle play. Theres no problems with the sound, but I was wondering if this could be a cause for concern. I've already contacted Schiit about it and am waiting for a reply. But I also wanna know if any of you have experienced this.



No, not normal at all.


----------



## Paladin79

I do have some flex with mine as well but that looks a little extreme. I even tried it with a Canare connector which I believe is what you are using.


----------



## koover

Mine doesn’t budge. That sure seems defective to me. As stated above, I’d be contacting Schiit directly.


----------



## Charente

I noticed a little bit of play on the RCA coax ... but now use the BNC connector ... it feels much more secure with no play at all


----------



## Paladin79

yep, a sturdier Jack


----------



## artur9

Charente said:


> I noticed a little bit of play on the RCA coax ... but now use the BNC connector ... it feels much more secure with no play at all


BNC is a much better connector.  I sometmes wish RCA were stillborn and BNC was the most common connector.


----------



## earChasm

TJ Max said:


> I've received a brand new Schiit Gungnir yesterday and I noticed that the digital coax port has a lot of wiggle play. Theres no problems with the sound, but I was wondering if this could be a cause for concern. I've already contacted Schiit about it and am waiting for a reply. But I also wanna know if any of you have experienced this.


Return it while you can. Mine is around 1 year old and no wiggle on any port whatsoever. I wouldn't buy any unit with that kind of flex.


----------



## jrflanne

No. Nothing like that.


----------



## TJ Max

Thanks guys. I've got a reply from Schiit and after viewing the image I sent them, they agree it's a defect and have arranged for exchange. So I should have my replacement Gungnir, hopefully with in a week.
I also bought at the same time a Modi Multibit and Magni 3. They are working fine, and are a decent back up.

While we're all here I must ask this question. I noticed that the Gungnir seems to have less bass than I remember. I owned one in 2016 but only kept it for about a month or two. But I do remember the sound was quit lively with some decent bass, and a very holographic mid section.
This new one sounded like the bass is bit rolled off. Unless I cranked up the volume or played something extra bassy, the Gungnir sounded kinda flat and even a bit muffled at time.
I'm just wondering why this might sound different.

I know I just got it, and some burn in is probably necessary, but I don't remember having an issue with the sound when I first plugged in the 2016 version. In fact some where in this thread around 2016 you may find me saying that the Gungnir is the best dac I ever heard.
Some factors that I know are different. are the 2016 version had a Gen 2 USB card, and A1 analog board. The new one has a Gen 5 USB card and an A2 analog board. Also in 2016 I was using RCA outputs to a Pioneer or Onkyo stereo receiver (I can't remember which), Today I'm using XLR outputs to a Parasound Halo Integrated Amp. I don't think the output types would make a difference, but I'm curious about the Analog boards. Do they sound different?


----------



## artur9

TJ Max said:


> ...
> While we're all here I must ask this question. I noticed that the Gungnir seems to have less bass than I remember. ...
> 
> I know I just got it, and some burn in is probably necessary, but I don't remember having an issue with the sound when I first plugged in the 2016 version. ... Also in 2016 I was using RCA outputs to a Pioneer or Onkyo stereo receiver (I can't remember which), Today I'm using XLR outputs to a Parasound Halo Integrated Amp. ...



I have a Parasound A52 and I always thought it was a bit light in the bass.  I've even plugged some passive subwoofers into it and sure enough the bass drops like a rock.

So, burn in and maybe find some way to goose the bass a bit.


----------



## TJ Max

artur9 said:


> I have a Parasound A52 and I always thought it was a bit light in the bass.  I've even plugged some passive subwoofers into it and sure enough the bass drops like a rock.
> 
> So, burn in and maybe find some way to goose the bass a bit.



On no The Parasound Halo amp sounds great with other sources, I also connect a Parasound Halo CD 1, Parasound Halo T3, Bluesound Node 2i, and my PC by USB. I never use any of the tone controls, and the sound has always been good. Its only when I connect all those sources to the Gungnir did I have a problem. Hopefully Its just a matter of burn in time.
When burning in should I be playing something or should I just leave it on for a while? When I get my replacement/repaired one I'll give it at least 3 days before forming an opinion. I just really wanted to know if there was a known difference between analog boards because that's the only major change since 2016.


----------



## earChasm

TJ Max said:


> Thanks guys. I've got a reply from Schiit and after viewing the image I sent them, they agree it's a defect and have arranged for exchange. So I should have my replacement Gungnir, hopefully with in a week.


Good 2 hear and kudos 2 Schiit.


----------



## Dr.J

Hi, TJ &

When I last spoke with Schiit, in the fall, they assured me that there is no A2 board for the Schiit Gungnir, unlike the Yggdrasil, explaining that they sometimes change part suppliers and make minor changes for practical reasons, but, that the Gungnir has not had an audio board redesign. It is possible, however, that the latest rendition, for the reasons given, may sound different/better than, for example, mine that has usb2 (I use coax).

With electronics, the magic number is 100 hours of burn in for any and all new electronics. Some component changes, like resistors and such, may settle down after 20 hours, soldering joints, up to 100 hours, Teflon caps at hundreds of hours and so you’ll have to give your Gungnir at least 100 hours to decide (you may notice an improvement after about 20 hours, but, after 100 hours, it isn’t likely to change significantly).

I’ve been at this hobby for nearly 40 years and I’m blown away by my Gungnir; give it time, I’m sure you will be too!

Good luck!

John


----------



## dieslemat

For me I highly doubt that there’s a Gungnir A2 that was silently released. Ive also asked Schiit and they always point me to the link to Jason’s post about minor improvements cause of various reason.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-1715#post-13791607

But yeah your guess is as good as mine


----------



## pichu

Hey everyone,

I have a Schiit Gungnir DS A1. I bought it for $375. I use it with an Eitr. Is it worth dropping the $650-$700 to get it multibit and gen5 internal usb?


----------



## RCBinTN (Jan 30, 2019)

pichu said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I have a Schiit Gungnir DS A1. I bought it for $375. I use it with an Eitr. Is it worth dropping the $650-$700 to get it multibit and gen5 internal usb?



IMO, yes go for the upgrade. I also went Gungnir DS ---> MB and the SQ is much better - more real/analogue in nature. I would never go back.
I also have the Gen5 USB, a great upgrade from the older USB design. Much more stable and better SQ ... no more need for the Eitr.

However: Mike is working on "Gen6" USB that's a completely new & proprietary design of USB by Schiit Audio.
When completed, it will be offered for the Gungnir (and all upgradable) DACs.
Rumor has it this will be a big improvement over Gen5, and it should be getting close to launch. You might want to wait for it.


----------



## Paladin79

I have the Gumby multibit but there are plenty of DS dacs out there I like better as far as SQ. So much equipment, so little time.


----------



## Ichos

Examples please?


----------



## jbarrentine

Ichos said:


> Examples please?



I just got a chord qutest. It's exceptional, and doesn't measure like crap...like every schiit dac but the modi 3. (Which sounds better than mimby btw).


----------



## Paladin79

This is a gumby thread and it would not seem right drifting off topic, PM me and I will try to discuss it there.


----------



## RCBinTN

Paladin79 said:


> This is a gumby thread and it would not seem right drifting off topic, PM me and I will try to discuss it there.



This is the Gumby thread and you're slamming the Gumby. Hmmm.


----------



## Paladin79

RCBinTN said:


> This is the Gumby thread and you're slamming the Gumby. Hmmm.



You might want to reread what you just quoted me saying RCB, you may have missed something.


----------



## RCBinTN

Paladin79 said:


> You might want to reread what you just quoted me saying RCB, you may have missed something.



Oh, I did quote the wrong one, sorry. If I'm going to post stupid replies, I should at least reference the right stuff.


----------



## Paladin79

RCBinTN said:


> Oh, I did quote the wrong one, sorry. If I'm going to post stupid replies, I should at least reference the right stuff.



I have not heard the DS Gungnir but I do have the multibit so I was always curious to hear that version. I believe I was told once that the Gumby is the multibit and Gungnir could be either?


----------



## rkw

pichu said:


> I have a Schiit Gungnir DS A1. I bought it for $375. I use it with an Eitr. Is it worth dropping the $650-$700 to get it multibit and gen5 internal usb?


The gen5 internal usb is equivalent to an Eitr and wouldn't yield an improvement, but it would allow you to eliminate a box if you want to reduce clutter.


----------



## pichu (Jan 30, 2019)

rkw said:


> The gen5 internal usb is equivalent to an Eitr and wouldn't yield an improvement, but it would allow you to eliminate a box if you want to reduce clutter.


Right, my main reason for doing so was to reduce the clutter and streamline. I was now thinking to sell the Gungnir and buy an SMSL SU8.


----------



## RCBinTN

jbarrentine said:


> I just got a chord qutest. It's exceptional, and doesn't measure like crap...like every schiit dac but the modi 3. (Which sounds better than mimby btw).



Nice! The Chord products are highly regarded.
Plus ... love your avatar


----------



## RCBinTN

Paladin79 said:


> I have not heard the DS Gungnir but I do have the multibit so I was always curious to hear that version. I believe I was told once that the Gumby is the multibit and Gungnir could be either?



The first real DAC in my life was the Schiit Uber Bifrost.
Soon afterwards, I bought the Gungnir DAC. My quest was to go balanced; Gungnir was a big step up and forward.

This was back (in the days) when Yggdrasil was the only "multi-bit" closed-form DAC in the Schiit line-up.

For me, the Gungnir was a nice upgrade in SQ vs. the Bifrost. All my music sounded bigger and better ... more engaging.
Plus, I was on my balanced glide path. I started buying XLR interconnects and HP cables.

Not long after, Schiit announced the multi-bit upgrade for the Gungnir!
The $500 upgrade would replace the DAC chips and include Mike's closed-form analogue program - same as Yggdrasil.
Albeit, with slightly lower-class DAC chips, resolving to 19-bits instead of the Yggy 21-bits.

And so, the Gumby was born. Gumby = Gungnir MB. I jumped immediately.

The improvement with Gumby was immediate and impressive, even cold straight out of the box.
Wider, deeper stage. Better instrument placement and resolution. More "analogue" SQ. 

Suddenly, my HD800 had bass! 
I'd heard comments that the HD800 were flat, cold, neutral, reference, whatever. It's not true, I had just discovered.
Now the rig was approaching HD800-worthiness -- my ultimate goal.

After a warm 100-hours, the Gumby's SQ became magical.
How's that for not measuring my device. HA!

My SQ approaches that of the higher-end rigs I've heard: Yggy + Ragnarok and Yggy + WA5.
I've not heard the Chord Dave, and really don't want to ... because,
I'm happy! And, don't have $12,000 to spend on a DAC.

I also don't give a damn that the Schiit MB DACs don't measure well.
They sound great and that's what counts. YMMV as always in this hobby.



@Paladin79 - perhaps if you send in your Gumby, The Schiit Audio Team can transform it into a Gungnir DAC and return it along with lagniappe - maybe a Saga or some cash ... it's best to ask them first.


----------



## Paladin79

@Paladin79 - perhaps if you send in your Gumby, The Schiit Audio Team can transform it into a Gungnir DAC and return it along with lagniappe - maybe a Saga or some cash ... it's best to ask them first.[/QUOTE]

@RCBinTN 


Sorry RCB, you lost me I have no idea what you are saying, I own many DACS but I had not heard the DS version gungnir, that is what this conversation was about.
 Anyway good luck in your endeavors. You are fortunate to be south, freaking cold here right now.


----------



## US Blues

jbarrentine said:


> I just got a chord qutest. It's exceptional, and doesn't measure like crap...like every schiit dac but the modi 3. (Which sounds better than mimby btw).



Son, you've been reading bull-schiit on the internet again.


----------



## jbarrentine (Jan 31, 2019)

US Blues said:


> Son, you've been reading bull-schiit on the internet again.



I have both a modi 3 and mimby sitting here. And I'm damn far away from being your "son".

Modi 3 eats mimby's lunch. At $150 less. There's zero reason to buy mimby.


----------



## TJ Max

jbarrentine said:


> I have both a modi 3 and mimby sitting here. And I'm damn far away from being your "son".
> 
> Modi 3 eats mimby's lunch. At $150 less. There's zero reason to buy mimby.



Are you using the USB or Coax inputs?


----------



## jbarrentine

TJ Max said:


> Are you using the USB or Coax inputs?



Toslink. Mimby sounds like crap through USB.


----------



## TJ Max

jbarrentine said:


> Toslink. Mimby sounds like **** through USB.




I asked because I just discovered today that the Toslink input sounds dull compared to the coax input of the MImby. I've never tried the USB input.


----------



## jbarrentine (Jan 31, 2019)

I went thru 3 different plastic toslink cables and they were all dull. Then I bought a glass one and all was well. I never believed such a thing was possible before.

I have used cheap and expensive rca cables and hear no difference however


----------



## RCBinTN

I was using a glass toslink cable as well, direct from the Macbook Pro. 
It sounded pretty good, but USB with the Gen5 USB installed in the Gumby sounds better.
So now I'm back to USB, with the toslink as its back-up.
The "Gen6" USB being developed by Mike is purported to beat the Gen5 SQ by a wide margin.


----------



## artur9

jbarrentine said:


> Modi 3 eats mimby's lunch.


Can you describe the differences you hear?


----------



## jbarrentine

artur9 said:


> Can you describe the differences you hear?



It's *exceptionally* clean/clear. It's not even subtle. It makes mimby sound stupid in that regard. It's completely competent in all other areas and sounds otherwise quite a bit like mimby.


----------



## Rensek (Jan 31, 2019)

jbarrentine said:


> I have both a modi 3 and mimby sitting here. And I'm damn far away from being your "son".
> 
> Modi 3 eats mimby's lunch. At $150 less. There's zero reason to buy mimby.



I would argue this. I own a June 2018 mimby and an Oct 2018 modi 3. They definitely have different sound signatures. With headphones and HD6XX the differences are less noticeable. In a 2 channel setup, I much prefer mimby. In the HP setup, I'd say mimby wins, but not for 100 dollars more. A real good setup is Loki and modi 3 over mimby

I would say the preference of the listener is what decides this. Do you prefer ribeye or New York strip. A1 vs Heinz 57, etc


----------



## RCBinTN

Rensek said:


> Do you prefer ribeye or New York strip. A1 vs Heinz 57, etc



I enjoy all (4) combinations and have even mixed the sauces together at times


----------



## Byronb

jbarrentine said:


> I have both a modi 3 and mimby sitting here. And I'm damn far away from being your "son".
> 
> Modi 3 eats mimby's lunch. At $150 less. There's zero reason to buy mimby.


Actually there are many reasons.


----------



## Rattle

jbarrentine said:


> It's *exceptionally* clean/clear. It's not even subtle. It makes mimby sound stupid in that regard. It's completely competent in all other areas and sounds otherwise quite a bit like mimby.



Care to share your listening gear, speakers or headphones ? Which amps ? what connections ?


----------



## jbarrentine (Feb 2, 2019)

Rattle said:


> Care to share your listening gear, speakers or headphones ? Which amps ? what connections ?



PC> generic glass toslink > modi 3 or mimby (now qutest) > project polaris (audioquest evergreen if it matters) > HD600.

Swapped in a JDS Atom for fun. Same difference, modi 3 is better. It's not even close.


----------



## Rattle

jbarrentine said:


> PC> generic glass toslink > modi 3 or mimby (now qutest) > project polaris (audioquest evergreen if it matters) > HD600.
> 
> Swapped in a JDS Atom for fun. Same difference, modi 3 is better. It's not even close.



Only used mimby via coax from a transport, I'm wondering if USB is a lot better on modi 3. KInd of bridges the gap maybe ? I heard mimby with HD600 but different amps, was thinking of rolling in a modi 3 for fun.


----------



## the finisher

jbarrentine said:


> PC> generic glass toslink > modi 3 or mimby (now qutest) > project polaris (audioquest evergreen if it matters) > HD600.
> 
> Swapped in a JDS Atom for fun. Same difference, modi 3 is better. It's not even close.




OK don't buy it. 

But try a speaker system before you get all  "I know everything" 

Headphone listening will tell you nothing about many aspects of a DAC.


----------



## Rensek (Feb 3, 2019)

jbarrentine said:


> PC> generic glass toslink > modi 3 or mimby (now qutest) > project polaris (audioquest evergreen if it matters) > HD600.
> 
> Swapped in a JDS Atom for fun. Same difference, modi 3 is better. It's not even close.



I would be interested to hear what tracks you are listening too, and what you are hearing in each track, that makes you type such a strong statement. I have spent a considerable amount of time with both dacs, and while I hear a difference, it's not enough to proclaim one isn't close to the other.

My thoughts are that modi 3 is more technical. On some songs the notes ring true cleaner/clearer on modi 3 then mimby. I would attribute that to the differences between R2R dacs and DS dacs. In many areas the DS dacs measure better, modi 3 certainly measures better then any other Schiit dac.

Aside - those that play musical instruments will know that you can hit every note on the sheet music, with the correct timing (as the sheet music indicates), but still not have it sound like you want it to, or have it sound like the recording you are trying to duplicate.

Music has a certain ineffable soulful quality to it that is hard to explain and probably harder to measure and replicate. Thus terms like musical and musicality, and the love of tubes, and people arguing over vinyl and digital.

This mindset is how I would probably describe the differences between the modi multibit and modi 3.

Modi 3 hits all the right notes, but does so with more technical precision and has less of a real feel then modi multibit offers. I would again indicate that I feel like soundstage, imaging, depth, are better represented via what modi multibit offers.

 If you are sitting at a desk with monitors, or desktop speakers, the differences are more revealing. Put your speakers at the edge of the desk on each side. Modi multibits soundstage comprises the entire space between the speakers. You often can't tell the sound is coming from the speakers. They just blend in.

With modi 3 the  soundstage is significantly smaller, Instead of the sound taking the entire space between the speakers, you get a much smaller soundstage, and in some cases hear sounds directly from the left a d right channels depending upon recording quality.

Example if your desk is 60 inches wide, modi multibit fills the entire 60 inches. If you use modi 3 you get 40 inches, losing 10 inches on either side, everything seems smaller and closer together, but the music in that stage seems a tad bit more technical.

This is probably due in part to differences in digital filters. Modi multibit getting Mike's custom filter, modi 3 getting stock AKM filter.

Both sound great in my book. My next DAC will be a modi 3 for a cheap system I am putting together for my kitchen. I am buying more of the modi 3 because it is 89 on b stock, and modi multibit is 200 on b stock or 250 new. If they were closer in price, is get the multibit.

Being this is a gungnir thread, Gumby (& Yggy) owners should rest easy knowing you have a super combo burrito filter, and I only have a regular burrito filter. #burritoenvy


----------



## jbarrentine (Feb 3, 2019)

the finisher said:


> OK don't buy it.
> 
> But try a speaker system before you get all  "I know everything"
> 
> Headphone listening will tell you nothing about many aspects of a DAC.



Oh look elitism. Shove it. You people and your borish behaviors.

I never said "I know everything". You're a troll with such a statement. I'm calling you out for it.

It should stand to reason that everyone has their own opinion here. Mine is that modi 3 is a better dac without question vs mimby.


----------



## Rensek

jbarrentine said:


> Oh look elitism. Shove it. You people and your borish behaviors.



Yeah I don't think that's elitism....


----------



## jbarrentine

Rensek said:


> Modi 3 hits all the right notes, but does so with more technical precision and has less of a real feel then modi multibit offers. I would again indicate that I feel like soundstage, imaging, depth, are better represented via what modi multibit offers.



People like flawed sound. People like vinyl, which is crap. People like tubes, which are crap. People like stuff that doesn't measure well, like the modi multibit. "Life like" is code for flawed in the audio world apparently. Sure, I had a mimby, I thought it sounded nice. Then I found out how things *should* sound that aren't mutilated by bad implementation, and guess what, that's better. It's why I immediately went out of my way to get a much better dac at the high end which does measure well.

I don't care if anyone here finds it offensive. Or if I supposedly don't know better because I can't possibly hear a difference without a million dollar speaker setup ::rolls eyes::

I'll leave you to it. Don't bother replying, I won't be back.


----------



## Rensek

jbarrentine said:


> People like flawed sound. People like vinyl, which is crap. People like tubes, which are crap. People like stuff that doesn't measure well, like the modi multibit. "Life like" is code for flawed in the audio world apparently. Sure, I had a mimby, I thought it sounded nice. Then I found out how things *should* sound that aren't mutilated by bad implementation, and guess what, that's better. It's why I immediately went out of my way to get a much better dac at the high end which does measure well.
> 
> I don't care if anyone here finds it offensive. Or if I supposedly don't know better because I can't possibly hear a difference without a million dollar speaker setup ::rolls eyes::
> 
> I'll leave you to it. Don't bother replying, I won't be back.



Well I was hoping for an actual track listing of what you heard  from each dac when you decided modi 3 was so much better, but I won't worry about it. Your last post says it all to me. My ears tell my brain what it likes, or vice versa, if my ears like crap it's ok by me. 

Have a good one, not sure why you are so upset.


----------



## mvn1

Anyhow...

Has anyone got any insight/inkling into if the Gungnir is going to get any kind of refresh/upgrade soon? USB Gen 6 is obviously on the roadmap (I've seen folk say this is around the corner, others say its lightyears away...), but do we think we'll see an upgrade in the next 4-6 months?


----------



## the finisher (Feb 3, 2019)

mvn1 said:


> do we think we'll see an upgrade in the next 4-6 months?



Sometime this year would be a safe bet


I actually like hi-fi.

Lol 
Blanket statements won't get you very far in this hobby.


You don't need to spend a million dollars on a speaker system. Or even many thousands of dollars.

And  tubes do not sound like crap! Unless you have some crappie tubes.
Vinyl doesn't sound like crap unless you have some wore out records.

Anyway back to the music


----------



## RCBinTN

Rensek said:


> Modi 3 hits all the right notes, but does so with more technical precision and has less of a real feel then modi multibit offers. I would again indicate that I feel like soundstage, imaging, depth, are better represented via what modi multibit offers.



This is a good description of the difference I heard between the Gungnir and Gumby.
The added depth of sound stage was what really sold me on Gumby.

I think the goal of DAC designers is to recreate the sound of live music, a difficult task!
I've read Mike describe the MB sound as more "analog" and that also makes sense, to me.
Somewhat less "technical," less digital sound.

My experiences were listening only with headphones, in most cases the HD800.
I can understand how a sound stage difference would be very noticeable in a speaker rig!

As for Gumby upgrades @mvn1 I think the new USB upgrade is the only one on Jason's list for Gungnir.
He published his project list a couple chapters ago on his thread.

Cheers All,
RCB


----------



## the finisher (Feb 3, 2019)

RCBinTN said:


> My experiences were listening only with headphones, in most cases the HD800.



You sir are a horrible elitist 



Those are a very speaker like headphone from what I have heard described to me, the HD 6xx will "soundstage"  with some good tubes 

I will have a chance to borrow a friends pair of HD 800s, cant wait to try!

In my experience a quality R2R type DAC makes a difference here.


----------



## RCBinTN

the finisher said:


> You sir are a horrible elitist
> 
> Those are a very speaker like headphone from what I have heard described to me, the HD 6xx will "soundstage"  with some good tubes
> 
> ...




My goal in this hobby was to assemble a rig that would drive the HD800, because of the amazingly-wide soundstage and midrange.
Took me a few years and many DAC/amp iterations to get there. I agree ... the Gumby was a big factor along the way.

The HD800 are very picky and the sound isn't for everybody. When poorly driven, they sound like crap.
The sound is not warm, but instead very neutral (that's what I like ... I don't care for warm HPs).
They are also very open and require a quiet environment, because all external noise comes through.

Will be interested to get your listening impressions (are you borrowing the HD800 or HD800S?). 
I suggest to try some acoustic guitar music like Clapton's _Unplugged_.


----------



## the finisher

RCBinTN said:


> My goal in this hobby was to assemble a rig that would drive the HD800, because of the amazingly-wide soundstage and midrange.
> Took me a few years and many DAC/amp iterations to get there. I agree ... the Gumby was a big factor along the way.
> 
> The HD800 are very picky and the sound isn't for everybody. When poorly driven, they sound like crap.
> ...




HD 800S

And yes I always use familiar acoustic music for any "critical " listening


----------



## RCBinTN

the finisher said:


> HD 800S
> 
> And yes I always use familiar acoustic music for any "critical " listening



Cool. You have a nice inventory of gear there, including Yggy A2 ... should be good to go with the HD800S


----------



## the finisher

Yeah I kind of hope I don't like them a whole lot


----------



## Ichos

Strange because I sold my Gumby as I found it lacking at stage depth and 3d effect.
Couldn't make my speakers disappear.
Now I am out searching again and I hate it because I don't like anything!
I hope I want regret selling my Gumby!


----------



## RCBinTN

That's interesting. Gumby on speakers must be different than on HPs.
Maybe you need a DS DAC instead - perhaps a Gungnir?


----------



## the finisher (Feb 3, 2019)

I feel your pain I searched for a long time.

I have tried many DACs before I settled.
I never did try a Gumby I went straight for Yggy.

However I have listened to quite a few digital combinations since then.

There is certainly hope you can make your speaker's disappear without breaking the bank.

I also find that the speakers themselves and positioning and the room and where you sit and, and, and, and makes a huge difference.

D/S DACs never did it for me but this is very person specific.
My speakers are invisible, a 3d wall of sound.


----------



## Ichos

I have conetrated my searching on DS dac's.
I liked a lot the new Arcam cds50 based on ESS 9038 the q though not the pro.
I am also searching cd players with DAC function as the great bulk of my listening is with cd.
I believe for cd playback the cd player is better than the transport plus DAC combination.
I don't know maybe I am wrong.
On a side note I have optimal speaker positioning respecting the cardas rules on heavily treated room although quite a small one.


----------



## Ableza

The cool thing about audio is there is no "right" answer.  Do whatever sounds best to you.  That's all that matters.


----------



## Ichos

Yes long live subjectivity!!!


----------



## the finisher (Feb 4, 2019)

Ichos said:


> I have conetrated my searching on DS dac's.
> I liked a lot the new Arcam cds50 based on ESS 9038 the q though not the pro.
> I am also searching cd players with DAC function as the great bulk of my listening is with cd.
> I believe for cd playback the cd player is better than the transport plus DAC combination.
> ...



Sounds to me like your room is good, I am also in a small room using pro monitors and subwoofers.

I do a few tricks like using digital EQ for subwoofers.
 I also have pro crossover between my monitors and my subs.

I have the option of using 4 Delta Sigma DACs here.
Or I can feed Yggy with either SPDIF from my CD transport.
Or the whole processing ball of wax from my computer via lynx E22 via AES3

Either way it beats any of my Delta Sigma DACs when it comes to sound stage and 3D placement of objects in a mix.

I'm going to have an opportunity to try a friends DACs out so I will be able to experiment with perhaps a half a dozen more soon of both D/S and R2R. This is always fun

and you have to keep in mind two of the Delta Sigma implementations I'm talking about I have bought since I bought my yggdrasil.

And I wanted them to kick ass, neither of them is bad one is in my CD player ( older ESS saber but Esoteric so no slouch) the other is in my pro sound card (Cirrus Logic) Also very good just not as fun 

It's just that Yggy's better.


----------



## Ichos

Wow that's a great setup you have!
I would like to have an esoteric cd player...
Anyway I don't use subs as the speakers go down to 30hz because of the small room neither any kind of eq or DSP.
I am kind of old school spinning cd's the traditional way.
The speakers and amp are quite raw and revealing so every detail from the source is projected uncolored and honestly.
So source plus material quality are very important.


----------



## the finisher

I got lucky on the CD player and got it used for a pretty decent price.
I love just spinning CDs and listening without the computer!

My monitors are also very unforgiving.
I mean the system is built to be accurate not have any kind of v shape or anything like that.

So it's fun to have source equipment to mess around with because you can hear the difference.

Anyway good luck in your search for DAC.
I have a friend who has an audio GD r2r which kicks ass.
They're not huge money maybe take a look.

And my monitors don't go to 30 Hertz they roll off starting at a hundred and by 60 they're mostly done.
As it is now with two subwoofers in here I'm pretty good between 20 and 20


----------



## rkw

Ichos said:


> I believe for cd playback the cd player is better than the transport plus DAC combination.


That may be the case for the low and mid-level market, but manufacturers always make their best, premium products as components packaged separately. It is the customer demand and gives higher profit.


----------



## Ichos

I agree but from a technical point of view all in one (with the same quality) is better because there two conversions less plus the cable.


----------



## artur9

jbarrentine said:


> You people and your borish behaviors.


Not meaning to throw gasoline on here but, yeah, it probably is borish but also boorish.

I don't use headphones because the sound seems to emanate right from where my migraines start.  Headphone-centric reviews are less useful to *me *and speaker reviews are problematic because of room effects.  Ah, the life of an audiophile/music-listener.


----------



## artur9

RCBinTN said:


> I think the goal of DAC designers is to recreate the sound of live music, a difficult task!


@Baldr has said he's trying to recreate acoustic music (real instruments in a real space) because he could go there and know what it's supposed to sound like.  His priorities line up with mine.

More technical music (like EDM?) is all generated inside a computer and so no one, besides the composer, really know what's it supposed to sound like.


----------



## artur9

Ichos said:


> Strange because I sold my Gumby as I found it lacking at stage depth and 3d effect.


My current speaker set up is getting good sound stage from my Gumby but the 3D effect apparently requires specific tracks because not all tracks are mixed in a way that it works.  Can you share the tracks you used to determine lack of 3D effect?

I've gotten "good" 3D effects when phase/polarity has been incorrectly set up ;-(


----------



## Ichos

For example a quite recent release - Heroes from the shadows 






Her voice is in the same place with the other instrumentalists
With other dacs i have tried you can hear the voice in front of the other instrumentalists very close to the front.


----------



## artur9

Ichos said:


> For example a quite recent release - Heroes from the shadows


Any particular source?  Like, I would think YouTube compression would kill the effect.


----------



## Ichos

24/94 Master - download.


----------



## TJ Max (Feb 5, 2019)

TJ Max said:


> Since I got my Gumby 2 days ago I've experienced the same issue when connecting my powered off Pioneer Elite NX-30 to the Gumby's outputs.
> The second outputs on the Gumby are going to a Beyerdynamic A2 Headphone amplifier. When my Pioneer is off the A2 gets this crazy distortion in high energy passages of music.
> I know its not the Gumby's fault, but it is strange that this problem didn't manifest itself until I hooked up the Gumby. I didn't have this issue with my previous dac. Teac UD-501.
> I'm currently working around the problem by putting a CELabs A/V distribution amplifier in between my Pioneer and the Gumby.
> http://proav.celabs.net/av-products/av-distribution/composite-amplifiers/av400/ or just keep my receiver turned on and muted when using my A2.



And the 2019 Gumby has the same issue as the 2016 version. You can't  use both outputs while one out device is turned off.
Also There's some odd things about the XLR output, they are much louder than the RCA. With the volume knob being at  7 oclock for the 0 position I can barely make it to the 9 o'clock position before its already too loud. In addition the sound is more fatiguing in someway when compared to the RCA outputs.
I'm going to buy some XLR attenuators to experiment with. I'm concerned that because the volume knob is so low that the Amp isn't providing optimal power across the frequency range. 
Have any of you experienced these issues?


----------



## Rowethren

TJ Max said:


> And the 2019 Gumby has the same issue as the 2016 version. You can't  use both outputs while one out device is turned off.
> Also There's some odd things about the XLR output, they are much louder than the RCA. With the volume knob being at  7 oclock for the 0 position I can barely make it to the 9 o'clock position before its already too loud. In addition the sound is more fatiguing in someway when compared to the RCA outputs.
> I'm going to buy some XLR attenuators to experiment with. I'm concerned that because the volume knob is so low that the Amp isn't providing optimal power across the frequency range.
> Have any of you experienced these issues?



As far as I am aware the DAC will see the same load regardless of if the amp is turned off, I am a complete rookie when it comes to this stuff though so I could be wrong. 

Regarding the volume difference that is much easier to explain. The output voltage of XLR is double RCA (4V vs 2V) so that will have quite a dramatic effect on volume.


----------



## Ichos

The RCA is 2v and the XLR is 4v out so it is regular to be louder for the same pot position.
Other than that the RCA is summed from the XLR analogue out.
From my personal tests I found the XLR out a little more cleaner and a little more harsh than the RCA out.


----------



## TJ Max (Feb 6, 2019)

Ichos said:


> From my personal tests I found the XLR out a little more cleaner and a little more harsh than the RCA out.



And its that harshness thats bothering me. Do you think the upper midrange-lower treble sounds a little compressed with XLR? I can't tell if its that or just  that the extra volume is making it seem that way.


----------



## Ichos (Feb 6, 2019)

I am not sure and can't describe it but there was something bugging me with Gumby OG at the upper registers.
Sometimes I thought it was fatiguing and I believe it was at the registers you describe.
With my HD800s and MJ2 after a lot of listening tests at the end I preferred the single ended out of gumby as I thought it was more full and less harsh although lacking a little bit at detail.
As for compression / veil although I thought gumby being quite clear and not lacking at detail I changed my mind after listening to a few ESS Sabre dac's!


----------



## RCBinTN

I'm running a fully-balanced system and don't hear any harshness, compression or veil anywhere in the frequency spectrum.
Actually, quite the opposite - just sweet music reproduction ... very analogue-sounding.

I did have an issue with the amp being too powerful for some cans, especially low-impedance planars.

Here's a trick that helped me (and no, I'm not going to RCA connections).
My source is a Macbook Pro running JRiver23 with 16/44.1 FLAC or higher resolution music on the installed SSD.
JRiver has a DSP studio with a pre-amp slider. So, I enabled DSP studio and set the pre-amp at -9dB.
That let me increase the volume setting of the amplifier itself and keep the same listening level on the HPs.

This "trick" lets the amp operate in a better power range. The Bryston BHA-1 thanks me every time I listen.

I also use the -9dB preamp setting with my HD800 headphones, along with a 2dB dip at 6kHz that works wonders 

FWIW and YMMV, as always.
Cheers,
RCB

ps. These are all subjective listening impressions. There are more variables than are being discussed here!
       If an ESS Sabre DAC sounds better to you, then go for it ... and, happy listening.


----------



## Ichos

Nope i didn't like the sabre dac's!


----------



## RCBinTN

Ichos said:


> As for compression / veil although I thought gumby being quite clear and not lacking at detail I changed my mind after listening to a few ESS Sabre dac's!



Oops, seems like I read that sentence backward ... sorry about that and thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Ichos

Sabres were more analytical but almost all of them had a fake and metallic tonality at the upper registers.
ie - Ayazi dav v1 , pioneer u 05 , arcam cds50 with the pioneer being the worst of them.


----------



## RCBinTN (Feb 6, 2019)

Right ... the "fake and metallic tonality" is what Mike can overcome with his MB technology and analogue filter.
His aim is to make the DACs sound more analogue ... and IMO he has succeeded.

Most DS DACs do sound "fake and metallic," at least to me. As you said, mostly in the upper registers.
The funny (?) thing is the DS DACs measure better on the bench, but (IMO) they sound worse.
Some folks claim the DS DACs "are" better because they measure better.
I disagree with that. IMO, MB DACs sound better so they win!

As I went from Bifrost RCA to DS Gungnir balanced, the metallic sound softened, but it was still audible.
When I went from (both balanced) Gungnir to Gumby, the metallic effect disappeared.
The sound stage deepened. The mids and treble way more realistic.

That step was my game-changer!
I stopped my DAC journey at Gumby. The Yggy is more resolving, but it's too heavy for my old bones


----------



## TJ Max (Feb 6, 2019)

Ok I was able, to get around the volume issue by added these Hosa ATT488 Adjustable XLR Attenuators.






Its has 3 settings -20dB ,-30dB and -40dB


After plugging them in and setting them to -40dB, I played some loud Synth Rock music by Ultraboss. I was able to set my volume knob to %50 on my Parasound HINT, and get around ~65dBA @ 1m of noise using my sound level meter.


----------



## the finisher

Better than digital attenuation.


----------



## RCBinTN

Maybe so ... I need to explore this option. Thanks @TJ Max


----------



## KLJTech

I have the Gen 5 USB board for my Gungnir and a Jotunheim (amp only) coming in today. With the Gen 5 USB in place should I remove my Wyrd from the chain (never had any USB issues) or just leave it in place? Thanks.


----------



## JerryLeeds

KLJTech said:


> I have the Gen 5 USB board for my Gungnir and a Jotunheim (amp only) coming in today. With the Gen 5 USB in place should I remove my Wyrd from the chain (never had any USB issues) or just leave it in place? Thanks.



You can get rid of the Wyrd


----------



## US Blues

RCBinTN said:


> Right ... the "fake and metallic tonality" is what Mike can overcome with his MB technology and analogue filter.
> His aim is to make the DACs sound more analogue ... and IMO he has succeeded.



A small quibble: @Baldr aims to make DAC's that sound like real music.


----------



## mwb1

TJ Max said:


> I've received a brand new Schiit Gungnir yesterday and I noticed that the digital coax port has a lot of wiggle play. Theres no problems with the sound, but I was wondering if this could be a cause for concern. I've already contacted Schiit about it and am waiting for a reply. But I also wanna know if any of you have experienced this.



I had the same issue. I ended up getting a cable that has a BNC connector, and I'm really happy with it.


----------



## TJ Max

mwb1 said:


> I had the same issue. I ended up getting a cable that has a BNC connector, and I'm really happy with it.



Cool,

On my end I was already using the BNC connector with my CD player. I needed the RCA Coax port for my Node 2.
The issue was solved by Schiit replacing the whole Gungnir. I've no issues with the replacement.


----------



## mwb1

TJ Max said:


> Cool,
> 
> On my end I was already using the BNC connector with my CD player. I needed the RCA Coax port for my Node 2.
> The issue was solved by Schiit replacing the whole Gungnir. I've no issues with the replacement.



Nice.  I didn't go as far as bringing up the issue with Schiit, although I wish I had.   I was really disappointed with the quality of the coax connector on a $1300 unit.


----------



## mwb1

mwb1 said:


> Nice.  I didn't go as far as bringing up the issue with Schiit, although I wish I had.   I was really disappointed with the quality of the coax connector on a $1300 unit.



Took a minute to find, but here's the post where I griped about the coax connector on my Gumby.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-gungnir-dac.603219/page-233#post-12480743


----------



## Juan_R

mwb1 said:


> Took a minute to find, but here's the post where I griped about the coax connector on my Gumby.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-gungnir-dac.603219/page-233#post-12480743


Yeah, you definitely should've brought it up, they would've taken care of you and it would've been a minor issue. But with their next upgrade, I'm sure they'll replace whatever issue is going on; good for the next USB upgrade up their sleeves


----------



## Dr.J

I, too, have a Gungnir and while I now use the BNC connector, initially I made use of the coax connection. I, too, noticed that the coax connector is not as solid as the BNC connector and, as a result, did a little research; the coax connector is attached directly to the PCB and not to the chassis, the reason it’s flexible. This configuration, coax attached directly to the pcb, is an example of the best possible sonic interface and, as a result, provides the highest SQ, albeit, at the expense of a solid physical connection. So, if you’re using the coax connector, there’s no reason to worry about flex, other than that you have to be careful, gentle with it! I imagine that if you use an rca connector that mates a little too well with the Gungnir’s coax connector and you need to twist and pull hard to remove it (or, the opposite if you’re attaching a tight connector) it might not be too hard to compromise the coax to pcb connection and/or the  Pcb. So, just be careful and it should be fine!


----------



## tamleo (Feb 18, 2019)

Hello guys,
My Mumby/Magni3 stack start sounding too thick for my taste so I am finding a change now. But I don't know if it is due to my dac or my amp. I live in a small city so there is no chance to test things before buy.
Can you guys please tell me how much the Gungnir sounds less thick and v-shaped compared to my Mumby? Thank you/


----------



## hikaru12

TJ Max said:


> Cool,
> 
> On my end I was already using the BNC connector with my CD player. I needed the RCA Coax port for my Node 2.
> The issue was solved by Schiit replacing the whole Gungnir. I've no issues with the replacement.



I too am using the Gumby with my Node 2. I'm thinking about going just RCA Coaxial to see if I can hear a difference from my Starlight 2 Optical cable.


----------



## Mizicke5273

Mizicke5273 said:


> I just have something against leaving a $1.3k piece of hardware on while I am at work or out of the house.  I just cannot see letting it sit there, wasting electricity and making needless heat.  It has been mentioned that Gungnir doesn't use all that much electricity, but it is still a waste.  And the room it will be in does get quite hot in the summer, so any unnecessary heat is highly frowned upon by me.  That is why I asked you, owners of Gungnir, if you would still have bought it, fully knowing it would never stay on more than a couple of hours.  Yeah, maybe one day I would change my mind and end up leaving it on; but for now it wouldn't be.
> 
> I have thought about buying the Gungnir and just trying it out, to see how much I actually like it and if I think it sounds worth the $1.3k price; even when just powered up.  If not, I could just return it for the restocking fee.  Which is what I am trying to feel out from the responses or if I should just move on for now.




I posted, asking about this back in November and took the feedback of all those who responded.  I took some time to think about this and a few weeks ago, decided to look for a used Delta-Sigma Gungnir.  I figured this was a good solution to not wanting to keep a Gumby powered all the time and also trying out a higher tier DAC.  I was able to pickup a Gungnir DS from a member here and got it setup last week; I am impressed.  The last few days, I have really enjoyed what Gungnir brings to my headphone rig.  I can see why it is considered a great DAC by so many.

So thanks to all those who responded to my question and shared their opinion.


----------



## davidflas

I'm sorry to hear of all the issues people are having with their coax ports, I've used a variety of cables with my 2013 vintage Gungnir, and have never had an issue. But, reading these posts will cause me to be more cautious in the future.


----------



## VocaloidDude

So I got this DAC (not the multibit, and it annoys me that people only talk about the multibit), and I think it sounds pretty good for my HD800 headphones. But it doesn't sound good for my Neumann KH120 speakers, and I begrudgingly must use my equalizer (the loki) instead of using the balanced outputs. My question is _does anyone else besides me think this dac is bright and unforgiving? _I am thinking about replacing the DAC, or waiting until I have enough money for the gumby, people seem to say that DAC is end game. I was thinking about getting the HiFi Decoder SMSL SU-8 2ES9038Q2M DAC, but I'm not sure.


----------



## Rowethren

VocaloidDude said:


> So I got this DAC (not the multibit, and it annoys me that people only talk about the multibit), and I think it sounds pretty good for my HD800 headphones. But it doesn't sound good for my Neumann KH120 speakers, and I begrudgingly must use my equalizer (the loki) instead of using the balanced outputs. My question is _does anyone else besides me think this dac is bright and unforgiving? _I am thinking about replacing the DAC, or waiting until I have enough money for the gumby, people seem to say that DAC is end game. I was thinking about getting the HiFi Decoder SMSL SU-8 2ES9038Q2M DAC, but I'm not sure.



I never used a Gungnir DS but from what I have read being bright was one of the issues people had with it. I certainly haven't experienced my Gumby being bright though so maybe save up for the upgrade?


----------



## US Blues

VocaloidDude said:


> So I got this DAC (not the multibit, and it annoys me that people only talk about the multibit), and I think it sounds pretty good for my HD800 headphones. But it doesn't sound good for my Neumann KH120 speakers, and I begrudgingly must use my equalizer (the loki) instead of using the balanced outputs. My question is _does anyone else besides me think this dac is bright and unforgiving? _I am thinking about replacing the DAC, or waiting until I have enough money for the gumby, people seem to say that DAC is end game. I was thinking about getting the HiFi Decoder SMSL SU-8 2ES9038Q2M DAC, but I'm not sure.



I have a Gungnir DAC that I use in my BR system. Early last year when I had my Yggy in for upgrading I used the Gungnir in my main system. While the Gungnir did not match Yggy in sonics, I still found it to be a good listen. I can imagine if I had not been able to do a nearly instant change between the DAC's, leaving all the cabling in place, I would be happy with the Gungnir in my main system.

The point being I did not find it bright and unforgiving at all. What may be happening is that using Gungnir in conjunction with studio monitors doesn't offer good synergy, as those speakers are going to be quite incisive in their delivery. If you are using this speakers in near-field listening situation that would exacerbate the situation. Upgrading to Gumby would make a difference in what you hear. I don't know if you have a preamp between the Gungnir and the Neumann's, that might also help your situation.

I hope this is helpful.


----------



## the finisher

VocaloidDude said:


> So I got this DAC (not the multibit, and it annoys me that people only talk about the multibit), and I think it sounds pretty good for my HD800 headphones. But it doesn't sound good for my Neumann KH120 speakers, and I begrudgingly must use my equalizer (the loki) instead of using the balanced outputs. My question is _does anyone else besides me think this dac is bright and unforgiving? _I am thinking about replacing the DAC, or waiting until I have enough money for the gumby, people seem to say that DAC is end game. I was thinking about getting the HiFi Decoder SMSL SU-8 2ES9038Q2M DAC, but I'm not sure.




I have a somewhat similar situation as I use Focal 6 be monitors near field.
I have had/do have many different DACs connected to the system.

And yeah these speakers don't forgive too awfully well. Of course there for mixing and so that's what they're made for.
I appreciate their truthfulness but they demand a high quality source.

One of the DACs I use is Lynx pro card with a Cirrus Logic Delta Sigma.
I wouldn't call this one bright. I would call it very accurate/neutral and almost sterile in it's delivery.
These particular DACs and ADCs are most likely very good for recording and mixing/mastering. But for pleasure listening you could do better.

Another one is the Sabre based DAC in my Esoteric CD player, this has proved to be my favorite Delta Sigma ever.
But good luck finding one for a reasonable price. And you're going to have to listen to CDs to use it.

PS audio Stellar gain cell DAC was very good especially if you need a preamp as well.
It is a very good Saber based solution IMO.

One of my least favorite DACs is the older Delta Sigma card that comes in a Jot. This one also sounds fairly decent with headphones but when you connect it to speakers it's not.

My favorite DAC no matter what I'm listening to is still my Yggy.  And I've not heard Gumby, but from all reports it is not as incisive.
This may be the perfect setup.

Also I do EQ my system, both speakers and headphones with Sonarworks Reference 4. But any comparisons here are without that. And I certainly don't need it to have a good experience.


----------



## VocaloidDude (Feb 28, 2019)

the finisher said:


> I have a somewhat similar situation as I use Focal 6 be monitors near field.
> I have had/do have many different DACs connected to the system.
> 
> And yeah these speakers don't forgive too awfully well. Of course there for mixing and so that's what they're made for.
> ...


It's not the Neumanns being revealing though, that's the mistake which I thought too at first. I was so bummed about the brightness that I packed up the speakers and hooked up my Audiosource amp100 and Cambridge S-30 speakers to the Gungnir expecting instant relief from the brightness (I didn't really trial them on it before, I just wanted to listen to my new speakers), and they also sounded fatiguing, except this time they sounded muddy and crappy, because they're not very good compared to the Neumanns (the bass extension is an utter joke compared to the Neumanns, and after a week with the Neumanns what I had before sounds awful). I also found the HD650 headphones to be rather bright paired with the Gungnir as well, and those are known for being more forgiving headphones.

So what I ended up needing to do was do a smiley face frequency curve on my EQ to make it tolerable, but now I can't use the balance cables which are running out of a JLB M-Patch 2 Pre-amp, which kind of defeated the purpose of having all these balanced setups when the source is an AV cable. I'm going to take a shot in the dark and see if the seller on Amazon who sold the DAC to me will take it back, he won't be happy about that. If not I'll just have to sell it to someone else on ebay or something.


----------



## Rensek

Yeah, sounds like the DAC might not be a good match for your ears.


----------



## SilverEars

VocaloidDude said:


> So I got this DAC (not the multibit, and it annoys me that people only talk about the multibit), and I think it sounds pretty good for my HD800 headphones. But it doesn't sound good for my Neumann KH120 speakers, and I begrudgingly must use my equalizer (the loki) instead of using the balanced outputs. My question is _does anyone else besides me think this dac is bright and unforgiving? _I am thinking about replacing the DAC, or waiting until I have enough money for the gumby, people seem to say that DAC is end game. I was thinking about getting the HiFi Decoder SMSL SU-8 2ES9038Q2M DAC, but I'm not sure.


You really have to have the amp for it.  I tried the THX 789 with the Gumby, and could not tolerate the sound, sounding bright.  I think Gumby works best with a good solid-state amp.  

Mine is multibit and your is delta-sigma.  So, there probably is differences in the output as well.


----------



## Wes S

SilverEars said:


> You really have to have the amp for it.  I tried the THX 789 with the Gumby, and could not tolerate the sound, sounding bright.  I think Gumby works best with a good solid-state amp.
> 
> Mine is multibit and your is delta-sigma.  So, there probably is differences in the output as well.


I am a little confused?  So the THX 789 is not a good solid state amp?  I have read otherwise, but have not heard it for myself.  So are you saying the Gumby works best with warm sounding solid state amps?  I am looking at the Gumby for my LP, but don't need anymore brightness, in my system.


----------



## VocaloidDude (Feb 28, 2019)

2500-3800, the mid-treble frequency range is where you really hear the accentuation. It's very dramatic and unpleasant, I can't relax with this frequency blaring in my ears, and you can hardly turn up any music very loud without this frequency dominating your ear drums.


----------



## TJ Max (Feb 28, 2019)

VocaloidDude said:


> 2500-3800, the mid-treble frequency range is where you really hear the accentuation. It's very dramatic and unpleasant, I can't relax with this frequency blaring in my ears, and you can hardly turn up any music very loud without this frequency dominating your ear drums.




I just got my Gungnir towards the beginning of the month, and I too had a strange harshness with the upper mid - lower treble range with XLR. I was advised to wait after having the Gungnir continuously play for about 100 hours. I did and the sound improved.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-gungnir-dac.603219/page-374#post-14762413
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-gungnir-dac'm .603219/page-374#post-14764369

I was able to improve the sound even further by attaching some attenuators to the XLR outputs. They allowed a lot more play in the volume knob on my Amp which made a difference in the sound.  I'm assuming rising the volume from the 8 o'clock to 12 o'clock allowed more power to my speakers and I got a more balanced sound including the bass which was originally lacking when the volume knob was so low.

Also I regret getting  the multi bit version. I've been reading reviews at Audio science reviews and see that they measure horribly. And I'm aware that the  2019 versions do not sound the same as the 2016 versions. I would really like to hear a non multi bit version.


----------



## VocaloidDude

They're going back one way or another. Never before have I had such a change in my setup that everything I hooked up sounded fatiguing and overly bright, even my shittiest speakers and cheap amp.


----------



## Rensek (Feb 28, 2019)

TJ Max said:


> I just got my Gungnir towards the beginning of the month, and I too had a strange harshness with the upper mid - lower treble range with XLR. I was advised to wait after having the Gungnir continuously play for about 100 hours. I did and the sound improved.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-gungnir-dac.603219/page-374#post-14762413
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-gungnir-dac'm .603219/page-374#post-14764369
> 
> ...



I wouldn't put all your stock in those measurements. I read all that stuff as well. Keep in mind the author does mention every so often that those "poor" measurements take place well below our Audible range.  He mentions it less often on the Schiit reviews, as he is quite biased against Schiit. It's a documented fact R2R dacs don't measure as well as D/S. Most of the lower rated dacs from a measurement standpoint on that site are R2R dacs, regardless of brand. Many of those same dacs rate quite highly on listening tests.

I would even offer modi 3 vs modi multibit as a comparison. Modi 3 measurements rate far far higher then Modi Multibit. When I A B them in Saga with the same source, Spotify into Chromecast Audio, I prefer modi multibit. To each their own. I also prefer all.3 over the Chromecast audio, which also measures better then the modi multibit. I think the DAC on CCA is awful.


----------



## drleomarvin

I would second the R2R dacs don't measure well comment... Not an excuse, but I wouldn't put too much faith in those measurements...


----------



## VocaloidDude

I think I might just go back to the Modi. It served me really well for a few years (it died literally the day after I ordered the Gungnir), and it's only 100 bucks. Save some money, play it safe, don't go into another 650 dollar blunder again.


----------



## TJ Max

VocaloidDude said:


> I think I might just go back to the Modi. It served me really well for a few years (it died literally the day after I ordered the Gungnir), and it's only 100 bucks. Save some money, play it safe, don't go into another 650 dollar blunder again.



Ah, if you just got it. I still say to be patience, give it about 5 days
Download this Burn-In MP3 https://www.taralabs.com/cascade-noise-burn-in and let it run on repeat when you go to bed, and when you go to work or school, for like a week. The sounds will improve.


----------



## VocaloidDude

TJ Max said:


> Ah, if you just got it. I still say to be patience, give it about 5 days
> Download this Burn-In MP3 https://www.taralabs.com/cascade-noise-burn-in and let it run on repeat when you go to bed, and when you go to work or school, for like a week. The sounds will improve.


I've had it since the 15th, 13 days of extensive use. It hasn't gotten better. I sent it back, and I want something which is less fatiguing.


----------



## VocaloidDude

Sounds really smooth running out of just the AUX cable coming out of the back of my computer. The least fatiguing listening experience I've had in days.


----------



## TJ Max

Oh did you experience the same sound from the RCA outputs as the XLR? The harshness for me was only with the XLR output.


----------



## US Blues

TJ Max said:


> Also I regret getting  the multi bit version. I've been reading reviews at Audio science reviews and see that they measure horribly. And I'm aware that the  2019 versions do not sound the same as the 2016 versions. I would really like to hear a non multi bit version.



Friend, those measurements are bull-Schiit, and have nothing to do with the sound of the device. @Baldr did a fine job quite politely thrashing that noise until it disappeared down a proper grounding pathway.


----------



## VocaloidDude (Feb 28, 2019)

TJ Max said:


> Oh did you experience the same sound from the RCA outputs as the XLR? The harshness for me was only with the XLR output.


I really didn't hear much of a discernable difference between XLR and AV outputs and I have a button on my pre-amp that can switch between them instantly, mid song. I do hear a massive difference between the simple aux cable running > equalizer > pre-amp (av to xlr cord) > speakers and amp. It actually feels listenable, although it's a sloppy signal coming from the aux cable, it doesn't sound fatiguing anymore, which is really all that matters. I need to wait until the Modi 3 gets here until I can have a clear signal again, which I just ordered.


----------



## SilverEars (Feb 28, 2019)

Wes S said:


> I am a little confused?  So the THX 789 is not a good solid state amp?  I have read otherwise, but have not heard it for myself.  So are you saying the Gumby works best with warm sounding solid state amps?  I am looking at the Gumby for my LP, but don't need anymore brightness, in my system.


For my preference, 789 doesn't sound all that good.  If you tried some high performing amps, you understand it's not as simple as warm or bight.  Bright amp like 789 doesn't reveal the Gumby's output all that well.  On the other hand, LP seems to do much better.  LP is a pretty good match with the Gumby.  LP is in a different league, and different type of sound.


----------



## the finisher (Mar 1, 2019)

I personally don't like Delta/Sigma DACs very much.

You may be the same, I would describe my dislikes the same way.

Yggy needs no EQ, my room dose.

I use a Jot for a preamp, it works great.
Multi-bit may be your answer.


----------



## Wes S

SilverEars said:


> For my preference, 789 doesn't sound all that good.  If you tried some high performing amps, you understand it's not as simple as warm or bight.  Bright amp like 789 doesn't reveal the Gumby's output all that well.  On the other hand, LP seems to do much better.  LP is a pretty good match with the Gumby.  LP is in a different league, and different type of sound.


Got ya.  THX 789 is not good.  Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## RCBinTN

I can testify that the Gumby and Bryston BHA-1 SS amplifier pair very well together


----------



## SilverEars (Mar 1, 2019)

RCBinTN said:


> I can testify that the Gumby and Bryston BHA-1 SS amplifier pair very well together


That one is a certainty.  HD800/S does sound like the treble is smooth and well controlled out of the BHA-1.  It tends to push out fine-ness (like .0007 lead mechanical pencil) about the treble articulation if the driver is highly resolving.

I find either BHA-1 is neutral or slight V-shaped in response, and this Impression of a bit less weighty mids are given off most with balanced output.

I know BHA-1 has more emphasis in the bass than the avg as well, so this contributes to the perception of V-shape, and very clear and clean sounding response.

If you go from BHA-1 to LP you notice LP as middy sounding in comparison.

So, is BHA-1 neutral or is LP middy?


----------



## RCBinTN

I think the mids/treble from the (balanced) rig is quite neutral, and the HD800 headphones benefit somewhat from a bit more bass.
The bass is very tight and fast. I never use any SE connections throughout my system. 
YMMV, my friends


----------



## jmac1516

Wes S said:


> Got ya.  THX 789 is not good.  Thanks for the clarification.


I use my Gumby along with my THX 789 and have no complaints.  I also have a Violectric V281 which is certainly better but I'm happy with the price/performance ratio of the 789.


----------



## artur9

TJ Max said:


> Also I regret getting  the multi bit version. I've been reading reviews at Audio science reviews and see that they measure horribly.


Those measurements have been disputed/refuted many times over.  

D/S DACs generally measure better than multibit DACs.  That, and cost, is why they are the predominant form of DAC.  Doesn't mean they sound better.


----------



## bagwell359

VocaloidDude said:


> 2500-3800, the mid-treble frequency range is where you really hear the accentuation. It's very dramatic and unpleasant, I can't relax with this frequency blaring in my ears, and you can hardly turn up any music very loud without this frequency dominating your ear drums.



I agree those upper mids can be tough.

I've got a Gumby v1, and i got it after listening to a number of DAC's including the Yggy on gear such as Maggie 3.7i, ProAc Tablette, Triangle Celius 202, and Senn HD-600's.  I sold my wonderful analog rig and my gigantic collection of vinyl as well.  Both Gumby's I have heard sound the same, and I liked it over the Yggy, less detail (with the Rag which I had already decided on) but a bit more tubey.

But yours may not work with your equipment, that's a bummer.  You should have no trouble selling it.


----------



## SilverEars (Mar 4, 2019)

RCBinTN said:


> I think the mids/treble from the (balanced) rig is quite neutral, and the HD800 headphones benefit somewhat from a bit more bass.
> The bass is very tight and fast. I never use any SE connections throughout my system.
> YMMV, my friends


(talking about BHA-1) Tonally in terms of treble smoothness it has good performance, but when we look at it in terms of tonality in terms of mids weight, HD800 sounds a bit weight-less in the tonality, or not so meaty.  This does result in more skew'd or larger sound stage, and sounding stretched vertically, but 800's tonality will degrade (because it's already tuned with low level upper-mids).  Quite large sound stage, and BHA-1 does tend to push out large sound stage generally I noticed, and I'm starting to see that it's due to the tonal response with a slight V-shape, with less weightly mids, which makes mids sound quite clean for certain headphones.  I do like what it does to the HD6XX in terms of clarity.  It is also quite a fast amp in terms of response.  It does push out tight and impactful bass for many headphones.



bagwell359 said:


> I agree those upper mids can be tough.
> 
> I've got a Gumby v1, and i got it after listening to a number of DAC's including the Yggy on gear such as Maggie 3.7i, ProAc Tablette, Triangle Celius 202, and Senn HD-600's.  I sold my wonderful analog rig and my gigantic collection of vinyl as well.  Both Gumby's I have heard sound the same, and I liked it over the Yggy, less detail (with the Rag which I had already decided on) but a bit more tubey.
> 
> But yours may not work with your equipment, that's a bummer.  You should have no trouble selling it.


I supposedly have the A2 starting with B serial number.  I think Gumby works well with solid states, and tube amps need incisive and dry DACs, which Gumby is not.


----------



## Rowethren

I had something very odd happen yesterday with my Gumby. No sound was coming out of the right channel, I though a speaker had blown but I went through everything and it seemed okay and then finally reset my Gumby and it was all back to normal. Hopefully it doesn't happen again.
Anyone else had this?


----------



## Ichos

Yes I experienced it one time only when I used to have Gumby.


----------



## Ken G

Not sure if anyone here might have the inside knowledge on future Schiit products but if a person would want to upgrade from a Gungnir DS to a multibit would it be wise to wait to see what is in the pipeline or to just upgrade?


----------



## Charente

The one thing that is in the pipeline is their new UNISON USB (an in-house implementation of USB)... but as you're in the US you could just get that part upgraded easily later on when iy becomes available. The Gungnir MB is excellent as it stands tho'.


----------



## Ken G

Charente said:


> The one thing that is in the pipeline is their new UNISON USB (an in-house implementation of USB)... but as you're in the US you could just get that part upgraded easily later on when iy becomes available. The Gungnir MB is excellent as it stands tho'.


I have the older USB so I would be interested in that so perhaps it makes sense to wait.


----------



## RCBinTN

SilverEars said:


> (talking about BHA-1) Tonally in terms of treble smoothness it has good performance, but when we look at it in terms of tonality in terms of mids weight, HD800 sounds a bit weight-less in the tonality, or not so meaty. This does result in more skew'd or larger sound stage, and sounding stretched vertically, but 800's tonality will degrade (because it's already tuned with low level upper-mids). Quite large sound stage, and BHA-1 does tend to push out large sound stage generally I noticed, and I'm starting to see that it's due to the tonal response with a slight V-shape, with less weightly mids, which makes mids sound quite clean for certain headphones. I do like what it does to the HD6XX in terms of clarity. It is also quite a fast amp in terms of response. It does push out tight and impactful bass for many headphones.



I have no issues with the midrange presented from my GMB/A2 + BHA-1 to the HD800, or with any other portion of the music frequency spectra, for that matter.
IMO, the HD800 midrange, as driven by the GMB/A2 + BHA-1, is highly resolved and engaging.
The sound stage is unrivaled by any headphones in the world. 

That's why I stopped looking for new equipment (I am in my happy place).

My starting point was hearing the Yggy + Rag1 and Yggy + WA5. Those rigs, owned by Mr. Speakers, drove the HD800 beautifully.
But, again IMO, the GMB/A2 sounds nearly as good as Yggy, even perhaps a bit more engaging, and the BHA-1 provides a very neutral and sublime driver.

The music transition points are smooth, to me.
There, I mean the mid-bass to lower mids, and the upper-mids to treble. Fast and clean.

Depending on the music and production, at times I do experience a bit of brightness at 6kHz, but I've digitally EQed it down with JRiver.

YMMV, and thanks for the discussion.
RCBinTN


----------



## Kelvinate (Mar 9, 2019)

Hello, new member here. Does anyone know how the Gumby pairs with the Pathos Aurium? It will be used with the HD 800 S and LCD X. Unfortunately, I have no way to try it in Canada. So far I'm enjoying the Aurium and I'm looking for a DAC that pairs well with it. The Matrix X-sabre pro is also an option.


----------



## SilverEars

RCBinTN said:


> I have no issues with the midrange presented from my GMB/A2 + BHA-1 to the HD800, or with any other portion of the music frequency spectra, for that matter.
> IMO, the HD800 midrange, as driven by the GMB/A2 + BHA-1, is highly resolved and engaging.
> The sound stage is unrivaled by any headphones in the world.
> 
> ...


Iuv the bass response out of the BHA-1, and probably the most articulate and defined bass I've heard out of an amp.


----------



## Rowethren (Mar 17, 2019)

Further to my report the other day about the right channel randomly being dead one day and then being okay after a restart the right channel is now slightly quieter.

I have spent the last 2 days trying to work out where in the chain the issue was and have narrowed it down to either my DPS or the Gungnir but I should have final confirmation one way or another by the end of today...

Edit - Turns out it was the DPS having an odd issue with its bypass on preset 1. Very odd, at least it isn't the Gungnir though.


----------



## RCBinTN

Rowethren said:


> Edit - Turns out it was the DPS having an odd issue with its bypass on preset 1. Very odd, at least it is the Gungnir though.



I think you mean it is Not the Gungnir


----------



## Rowethren

RCBinTN said:


> I think you mean it is Not the Gungnir



Good catch, edited for clarity.


----------



## earChasm

Rowethren said:


> Good catch, edited for clarity.


Why not for me ? :.(


----------



## mikap

Anyone had experience pairing Gungnir with Schiit Ragnarok and HD800? Currently have Parasound ZDAC and it used to be the great combo while using optical input but after switching to USB it became brighter and dryer to my ears.


----------



## szymonsays

I'm posting in multiple threads as it may stretch the range to those who might be able to offer some advice. I've never been a big believer in DACs, but i think i owe it to myself to get a higher end DAC. I'm not willing to go over £2200 and the less money i spend the better. I've been looking at multiple dacs and i'm having a hard time deciding what to get. I've looked at the Schiit Gungnir multibit, i've pretty much ruled out the V850, but i've also considered the Onyx. In an ideal world, i'd be able to audition them all but since i can't i will have to go by user reviews. To those who have owned a Gungnir multibit and have jumped to a higher level entry Metrum DAC like the Onyx or perhaps another R2R DAC, would you say there was a significant improvement and was the jump worth the difference in price?


----------



## RCBinTN

mikap said:


> Anyone had experience pairing Gungnir with Schiit Ragnarok and HD800? Currently have Parasound ZDAC and it used to be the great combo while using optical input but after switching to USB it became brighter and dryer to my ears.



I've heard the Yggdrasil (A1) with Ragnarok into HD800 and the sound was spectacular.
That was at a headphone meet several years ago. It's what first got me on the journey to the HD800.

Gungnir MB/A2 with Gen5 USB (the DAC that I own) + Ragnarok would be a great rig for driving the HD800.

I reviewed the specs of the Parasound ZDAC, and IMO the Gungnir will blow it away for SQ. 
I am using USB feed from a Macbook Pro, and the sound is not bright - just right. Very stable and musical.

Enjoy your music!
RCB


----------



## dieslemat

RCBinTN said:


> Gungnir MB/A2 with Gen5 USB (the DAC that I own) + Ragnarok would be a great rig for driving the HD800.



Gungnir A2? I really thought that there is no such thing yet.


----------



## RCBinTN

szymonsays said:


> I'm posting in multiple threads as it may stretch the range to those who might be able to offer some advice. I've never been a big believer in DACs, but i think i owe it to myself to get a higher end DAC. I'm not willing to go over £2200 and the less money i spend the better. I've been looking at multiple dacs and i'm having a hard time deciding what to get. I've looked at the Schiit Gungnir multibit, i've pretty much ruled out the V850, but i've also considered the Onyx. In an ideal world, i'd be able to audition them all but since i can't i will have to go by user reviews. To those who have owned a Gungnir multibit and have jumped to a higher level entry Metrum DAC like the Onyx or perhaps another R2R DAC, would you say there was a significant improvement and was the jump worth the difference in price?



The move that really opened up my music to the HD800 was upgrading my DS Gungnir to Gungnir MB.
The music is 16/44.1 FLAC. The Schiit MB technology is the real deal.

Now with the A2 and Gen5 USB, the Gumby is a tremendous value.
I see Gumby on the Schiit-Europe website, on-sale for 1,239 Euros.
It appears that the Metrum Onyx is an R2R ladder DAC that retails for around 2,750 Euros.

I've not heard any Metrum gear, but IMO the SQ and value of the Gumby will be tough to beat.

FWIW.
RCBinTN


----------



## hikaru12 (Mar 29, 2019)

So I've thinking of upgrading to an Audioquest Coffee Coaxial cable for the Gumby input - anyone with this setup care to comment if it improved sound quality?


----------



## TJ Max

hikaru12 said:


> So I've thinking of upgrading to an Audioquest Coffee Coaxial cable - anyone with this setup care to comment if it improved sound quality?



While I've proven to myself that there are indeed differences in sound quality between USB cables, I also discovered that you don't have to go all out to get the best performance. 
Honestly, just look for a shielded cable that 24/28awg (big data conductor, small power conductor) and make sure all devices in your audio chain are p lugged in to the same electrical outlet and you'll get equal or better performance than any self-claimed audiophile cable.  If you suspect any noise (hiss or humming) look into a ifi idefender.


----------



## Cutie59

Just noticed the gungnir has two single output. So I plug my bottlehead crack and Sony Ta zh1es at the same time(both single end ).  They  work fine so far ......  am I going to see any firework later on ? Lol.


----------



## hikaru12

Cutie59 said:


> Just noticed the gungnir has two single output. So I plug my bottlehead crack and Sony Ta zh1es at the same time(both single end ).  They  work fine so far ......  am I going to see any firework later on ? Lol.



Nope no issues. I got my Gumby feeding my speaker amp from the SE1 and my headphone amp from SE2.


----------



## Cutie59

hikaru12 said:


> Nope no issues. I got my Gumby feeding my speaker amp from the SE1 and my headphone amp from SE2.


Cool. Thx for your reply


----------



## Mizicke5273

Been thinking about getting an Eitr for my rig and I just placed the order for it.  I had been considering the idea of just getting the USB 5 upgrade done, especially since I bought my Gungnir used.  But I just don't want to be without my Gungnir and I figure I could always use the Eitr with another DAC; should I decide to upgrade to a new Gumby or Yggy after USB 6 drops.


----------



## hikaru12

Mizicke5273 said:


> Been thinking about getting an Eitr for my rig and I just placed the order for it.  I had been considering the idea of just getting the USB 5 upgrade done, especially since I bought my Gungnir used.  But I just don't want to be without my Gungnir and I figure I could always use the Eitr with another DAC; should I decide to upgrade to a new Gumby or Yggy after USB 6 drops.




In my opinion the other inputs are way better than USB. USB sounds kind of muffled by comparison but then again I didnt use a really high end cable. I believe coaxial is still the best source as long as its rated properly. Optical revealed some high level detail in the treble and clarity and I still feel like theres a veil until I use a high end coaxial cable like the river series by AQ, etc


----------



## Mizicke5273

I ordered a Monoprice Coaxial cable a few weeks ago, to have on hand, and I also just ordered one from Ghent Audio as well.  This two will be good enough for now.  The Monoprice one was cheap but is 3 ft, so it is a bit longer than I should need.  I don't like having excessively long cables with lots of slack, so I got the Ghent cable in a shorter length.


----------



## RCBinTN

hikaru12 said:


> In my opinion the other inputs are way better than USB. USB sounds kind of muffled by comparison but then again I didnt use a really high end cable. I believe coaxial is still the best source as long as its rated properly. Optical revealed some high level detail in the treble and clarity and I still feel like theres a veil until I use a high end coaxial cable like the river series by AQ, etc



Not in my experience. Gen5 USB blows away the optical SQ (in my Gumby).
Believe me, I was using AQ diamond optical until Gen5, but now I'm on USB and not going back!

A valid question is whether to wait for Mike's USB Gen6, which I've heard from reliable sources is exceptional ... beats Gen5.
It depends on if you want to wait, and how long - good time to start asking Mike/Jason for launch date now that Aegir is commercial.

Happy Listening!
RCB


----------



## Cutie59

I got my gungnir used $850 with  mutibit and usb 5. No complains


----------



## RCBinTN

Mizicke5273 said:


> Been thinking about getting an Eitr for my rig and I just placed the order for it.  I had been considering the idea of just getting the USB 5 upgrade done, especially since I bought my Gungnir used.  But I just don't want to be without my Gungnir and I figure I could always use the Eitr with another DAC; should I decide to upgrade to a new Gumby or Yggy after USB 6 drops.



Please post your experience with the Gen5 USB (via Eitr) to educate this thread. Thanks.


----------



## hikaru12

RCBinTN said:


> Not in my experience. Gen5 USB blows away the optical SQ (in my Gumby).
> Believe me, I was using AQ diamond optical until Gen5, but now I'm on USB and not going back!
> 
> A valid question is whether to wait for Mike's USB Gen6, which I've heard from reliable sources is exceptional ... beats Gen5.
> ...



Can you elaborate? What would you say were the upgrades you got from going from optical to USB? What USB cable are you using? I hear less digital glare with my Starlight Optical cable. It just sounds smoother without losing detail.


----------



## RCBinTN

hikaru12 said:


> Can you elaborate? What would you say were the upgrades you got from going from optical to USB? What USB cable are you using? I hear less digital glare with my Starlight Optical cable. It just sounds smoother without losing detail.



Sure. I was using USB Gen2 that sounded OK but I had issues with reliability - music drops (source Macbook Pro direct to Gumby).
So I went to optical. Got a very stable performance. Even went to the AQ diamond optical cable at $500 trying to get the best SQ.

Then, I was able to experience the Gen5 USB, and I switched back to USB.
No more instability issues ... rock solid.

To me, the SQ is much better with Gen5 USB than even my uber-optical cable (which I do not recommend, BTW).
The Gen5 sound is more detailed and transparent, whereas the optical sounds veiled in comparison.

YMMV, thx for asking.


----------



## artur9

My favorite connection on my Gumby is the BNC.  But try finding something that outputs that!  I'm trying a Coax->BNC adapter to see how I like it.


----------



## hikaru12

RCBinTN said:


> Sure. I was using USB Gen2 that sounded OK but I had issues with reliability - music drops (source Macbook Pro direct to Gumby).
> So I went to optical. Got a very stable performance. Even went to the AQ diamond optical cable at $500 trying to get the best SQ.
> 
> Then, I was able to experience the Gen5 USB, and I switched back to USB.
> ...



What USB cable are you using now? Im curious to try it again if its as you describe but I was using a cheap Belkin cable so it sounded muddy.




artur9 said:


> My favorite connection on my Gumby is the BNC.  But try finding something that outputs that!  I'm trying a Coax->BNC adapter to see how I like it.



I think adding more parts to the signal chain would degrade quality although some people get USB to coaxial/BNC transports like I believe the Hydra X. Coaxial and BNC are virtually the same with different connectors. Just harder to find on spec coaxial cables.


----------



## artur9

hikaru12 said:


> I think adding more parts to the signal chain would degrade quality although some people get USB to coaxial/BNC transports like I believe the Hydra X. Coaxial and BNC are virtually the same with different connectors. Just harder to find on spec coaxial cables.


I'm hoping not for 2 reasons.
(a) My BNC cable is really high quality.  And... attractive 
(b) the BNC connector is really better than RCA.  As I've said before, I wish the world had settled on BNC instead of RCA lo those many years ago.


----------



## Juan_R

hikaru12 said:


> Can you elaborate? What would you say were the upgrades you got from going from optical to USB? What USB cable are you using? I hear less digital glare with my Starlight Optical cable. It just sounds smoother without losing detail.


From what I’ve read, I’ve gathered that the optical in reference is toslink, not coaxial. Which also makes a lot of sense, as it’s known to be noisy


----------



## hikaru12

Juan_R said:


> From what I’ve read, I’ve gathered that the optical in reference is toslink, not coaxial. Which also makes a lot of sense, as it’s known to be noisy



I haven't run into this issue with it being noisy but most Optical on a consumer level is Toslink and not Coaxial. I'd be willing to try the USB input again if someone can recommend a good cable. Right now I'm looking at other options like a Nordost Purple Flare for my Node 2 Transport.


----------



## rkw

Juan_R said:


> I’ve gathered that the optical in reference is toslink, not coaxial.





hikaru12 said:


> most Optical on a consumer level is Toslink and not Coaxial.


Optical = Toslink. They refer to the same thing.
Coaxial refers to coaxial wired cable with RCA or BNC connectors.


----------



## RCBinTN

hikaru12 said:


> What USB cable are you using now? Im curious to try it again if its as you describe but I was using a cheap Belkin cable so it sounded muddy.



When I went to Gen5 USB, I decided to buy a cable of comparative quality to the AQ Diamond toslink.
My trusted friend Alex at Wywires provided a Wywires Platinum USB cable, 4-ft in length. Similar price to the AQ Diamond.
I believe in upgrading cables. My rig is now all Wywires Platinum cables: USB, interconnects, and HP. Solid quality.

I think way back when (before Gen5), Mike had listed digital connections in order of SQ:
High to low: AES, BNC, RCA, toslink, USB. 
Gen5 has moved USB significantly up the list.

I too tried to get BNC input, from the Mac, using a Singxer F-1 (USB2 to RCA/BNC).
It worked OK but another box in the signal path. USB Gen5 solved all that.


----------



## artur9

RCBinTN said:


> I too tried to get BNC input, from the Mac, using a Singxer F-1 (USB2 to RCA/BNC).



I just remembered how I ended up getting BNC.
I have a BDP-1 (Bryston) and it has AES/BNC.  Gumby has Coax/Toslink/BNC.  Venn diagram and poof! BNC

In my current setup the BDP-1's AES goes into my preamp (which also does crossover duties) and then Coax to the Gumby.


----------



## RCBinTN

artur9 said:


> I just remembered how I ended up getting BNC.
> I have a BDP-1 (Bryston) and it has AES/BNC.  Gumby has Coax/Toslink/BNC.  Venn diagram and poof! BNC
> 
> In my current setup the BDP-1's AES goes into my preamp (which also does crossover duties) and then Coax to the Gumby.



LOL ... Venn diagram --> great application of logical thought process!

Bryston makes very nice gear ... I've been drooling over the BDP-3 for awhile.
I have their headphone amp and love it


----------



## artur9

RCBinTN said:


> LOL ... Venn diagram --> great application of logical thought process!
> 
> Bryston makes very nice gear ... I've been drooling over the BDP-3 for awhile.
> I have their headphone amp and love it


The BDPs are all very nice.  I went from a SotM SMS-200 (great unit but USB) to the BDP-1 and the BDP is just really nice.  Huge, in comparison, but I really like have the front panel transport controls.  

Except for power, I keep hitting that by accident since it's right next to Play.  I start to understand the thought processes of one @Jason Stoddard with putting power buttons on the back.


----------



## artur9

artur9 said:


> I'm hoping not for 2 reasons.
> (a) My BNC cable is really high quality.  And... attractive
> (b) the BNC connector is really better than RCA.  As I've said before, I wish the world had settled on BNC instead of RCA lo those many years ago.


No detrimental effects so far. 

Swapped it in and enjoying Money for Nothing a little louder than usual


----------



## mwb1

artur9 said:


> My favorite connection on my Gumby is the BNC.  But try finding something that outputs that!  I'm trying a Coax->BNC adapter to see how I like it.



I use a cable by Transparent that is coax on one end, and BNC on the other.  https://shop.transparentcable.com/shop/digital-audio/75-ohm-digital/performance-75-ohm-digital-link/

Blue Jeans makes them as well.  https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/index.htm


----------



## Mtavares_12

In my opinion the BNC is the best Gumby input. Currently I am using a Black Cat Veloce connected to an Allo Digione Signature player (BNC outuput) with good results.

Black Cat has a newer version: https://www.blackcatcable.com/colle.../products/silverstar-75-spdif-cable-universal

QJA


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 7, 2019)

hikaru12 said:


> Nope no issues. I got my Gumby feeding my speaker amp from the SE1 and my headphone amp from SE2.


I had issues when I was feeding two different tube amps single ended with them both turned on, and both amps would only output sound on one channel.  When I unplugged one of them, then the other one would start outputting sound on both channels.

Why is this the case?

I have fed a solid-state blanced input, and another single-ended no issues.  Only time I've had issues was when I've used both single-ended outputs to two different amps, and in particular tube amps.


----------



## RCBinTN

Mtavares_12 said:


> In my opinion the BNC is the best Gumby input.



Yep, and Mike agreed as well ... back before the Gen5 USB came along.
I'm using a Mac as music server which allows multi-tasking, but only USB or Toslink direct connections to the Gumby.



mwb1 said:


> Blue Jeans makes them as well. https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/index.htm



That Blue Jeans RCA/BNC cable is what I used between the Singxer and Gumby ... it worked fine, decent quality for the price.


----------



## artur9

Mtavares_12 said:


> In my opinion the BNC is the best Gumby input. Currently I am using a Black Cat Veloce connected to an Allo Digione Signature player (BNC outuput) with good results.
> 
> Black Cat has a newer version: https://www.blackcatcable.com/colle.../products/silverstar-75-spdif-cable-universal
> 
> QJA


That Black Cat webpage shows essentially what I got, an RCA adapter for BNC->RCA.  My cable is a Straight Wire S-Link Digital.  Needed a BNC cable and liked how that one looked and Straight Wire has a good rep.  

The Black Cat is also very attractive but I can't bring myself to supporting anything feline 

I am actually swapping out a Transparent digital RCA cable for the Straight Wire.  Man, that Transparent thing is stiff. 

For this application, I needed something a little more physically attractive than BJC or Transparent offer. Public space requires a little bling.


----------



## Dr.J

My sources are an Allo Digital-One Signature streamer and Cambridge CXC transport. I’m now also using a Remedy Reclocker, which inputs RCA, outputs BNC. MY BNC cable is Nordost Silver Shadow - this cable gets excellent reviews and a seller in Quebec discounts them for $199 cnd:

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...-nordost-silver-shadow-1-meter-digital-cable/

The RCA cable I use is an Oyaide digital cable; had I known about this before purchasing the Nordost, I would have purchased the BNC version of this cable, also, because of its superb construction, solid silver conductor and cf shielding - check these out, are reasonably priced and unsurpassed, qualitatively!

BNC, with the Gungnir, is the way to go!


----------



## hikaru12

Dr.J said:


> My sources are an Allo Digital-One Signature streamer and Cambridge CXC transport. I’m now also using a Remedy Reclocker, which inputs RCA, outputs BNC. MY BNC cable is Nordost Silver Shadow - this cable gets excellent reviews and a seller in Quebec discounts them for $199 cnd:
> 
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...-nordost-silver-shadow-1-meter-digital-cable/
> 
> ...



Do you notice any thinness with the Silver Shadow? I was looking at that as an option because my Node uses RCA for its coaxial. I  know silver has less resistance thus more detail but if the geometry is weird it starts to sound sibilant.


----------



## Dr.J

Hikaru12, no, I can’t say that the sound is sibilant or thin, but, rather, in my system the sound is transparent and holographic, full bodied and completely captivating/engaging  - I have no complaints.


----------



## Mtavares_12

Dr.J said:


> My sources are an Allo Digital-One Signature streamer and Cambridge CXC transport.
> BNC, with the Gungnir, is the way to go!



What has been your experience with the Allo Digione Signature? Are you streamming (Tidal, Qobuz, ...) or using a NAS type of solution?

Here the experience is very good and the integration with Gumby is flawessly.

QJA


----------



## Dr.J (Apr 7, 2019)

The Allo Digione Signature has worked flawlessly for me, no complaints and sounds fantastic! I’ve only tried Spotify premium, but via the native software, Volumio, I don’t have the option to manipulate resolution. It doesn’t matter, however, as the Remedy Reclocker converts everything into 96 khz and a 24 bit rate, I believe (a great match with the Allo). I primarily listen toweb radio feeds - Paradise Radio provides the option of streaming flac.

Yes, it integrates flawlessly with the Gungnir, the Allo does. I have to say, though, that after adding the Remedy into the mix, I don’t think I could live without it. The Mutec is said to be a better Master Reclocker, but, doesn’t affect bit rate and is considerably more money:

https://www.mutec-net.com/product_mc-3-plus-usb.php

Some people even daisy chain Reclockers with said noticeable improvement - it’s definitely worth having one, adds a three dimensional, smooth & holographic presentation, in my system, with more body. Sorry, I know I’ve gone off on a tangent.

And, again, I’m blown away by the quality of the Oyaide digital cables - these are popular in Germany, which is telling, in and of itself (check the features page):

http://www.oyaide.com/ENGLISH/AUDIO/products_category/digital_cable/pg532.html


----------



## artur9

The reclocker thing has me curious.  Any other ones out there besides the Remedy, Mutec and Empire Audio?


----------



## Mtavares_12

Dr.J said:


> The Allo Digione Signature has worked flawlessly for me, no complaints and sounds fantastic! I’ve only tried Spotify premium, but via the native software, Volumio, I don’t have the option to manipulate resolution. It doesn’t matter, however, as the Remedy Reclocker converts everything into 96 khz and a 24 bit rate, I believe (a great match with the Allo). I primarily listen toweb radio feeds - Paradise Radio provides the option of streaming flac.
> 
> Yes, it integrates flawlessly with the Gungnir, the Allo does. I have to say, though, that after adding the Remedy into the mix, I don’t think I could live without it. The Mutec is said to be a better Master Reclocker, but, doesn’t affect bit rate and is considerably more money:
> 
> ...



Thanks @Dr.J   by your response.

It is a clever solution and good selection of components. I have never thought in using a Reclocker like you are doing. Just for my understanding, are you using Mutec MC-3 BNC _in_ and _out_?

I am using Volumio and Tidal (integrated in the MyVolumio). After testing, it sounded better than Spotify. 

The Volumio supports Tidal Masters,  but up to 48K/24bit. The DAC should perform the second MQA step that it is not the Gumby case. However, I expect that in the future the MyVolumio could be modified to perform this MQA decoding also. This feature was provided to the iOS and Android platforms lately.

This solution has been equal to listen a CD through an Oppo 95 as a transport. In case we feed the Digione Signature with a 192K/24 bit music file the experience is fantastic 

The  Gumby/Digione Signature solution is making me abandon the physical media.

QJA


----------



## mvn1

Hi there.

Love the suggestions on the Digione Signature - I've ordered one as it fits my needs perfectly.

Interesting discussion regarding the reclocker. Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that a reclocker excels when using a CD transport, as they are more susceptible to jitter, and that digital transports have less of an issue here? What would the benefits be to a digital transport?


----------



## Dr.J

Hi, QJA,

no, I’m not using the Mutec, I’m using the Remedy Reclocker (which outputs everything at 24 bit, 96khz); it accepts only an RCA input, but provides a BNC output - so, RCA from either Allo Digione, or Cambridge CXC and BNC from Remedy Reclocker to Gungnir.

And, yes, I’m in the same boat, listen either to my Sansui tuner, or digital and very seldom to my R2R and/or my TT; I’m very impressed with my current digital setup - I’m sure there’s room for improvement and something to look forward to, but, am content.

MVN1, I’ve found the Reclocker improves both the streamer and digital transport to a very similar extent, has the same effect! You’ll love the Digione Signature!


----------



## mwb1

artur9 said:


> For this application, I needed something a little more physically attractive than BJC or Transparent offer. Public space requires a little bling.



Seriously?


----------



## RCBinTN

I was under the impression that Gumby already has re-clocking built into its design. The following quotes are from the Schiit Audio website:

"Adapticlock™: Unique Clock Analysis and Regeneration
Both versions of Gungnir include our proprietary Adapticlock system, which provides for both exceptional jitter performance and rock-solid, glitch-free connectivity. Adapticlock analyzes the incoming signal quality and automatically routes it to the best clock regeneration system—either VCXO or VCO-based. And, it does all of this without altering the bit depth or sample rate of your original music.

Gen 5 USB: USB, Solved
Forget decrapifiers, regenerators, isolators, and all the USB dongles and boxes you’ve been told you need for USB sound. Our all-new Gen 5 USB input doesn’t require any of that stuff. It’s this simple: Gen 5 is USB, solved. Now standard on all our upgradable DACs, Gen 5 USB features full galvanic isolation via transformers, self-power for low noise and latching, and high-quality local clocking for both 44.1 and 48k multiples."


----------



## artur9

mwb1 said:


> Seriously?


This is an aesthetic driven hobby.  Such aesthetic concerns should be approached holistically.

I mean, do you want to be staring at an unattractive (to you) thing while you are listening to beautiful (to you) music?

What I think is bling-y you may think is barf-y.  I'm ok with that, don't be all judge-y.

As an aside, I find i very hard to listen with my eyes closed.  Anyone else have that problem?


----------



## Wes S

artur9 said:


> This is an aesthetic driven hobby.  Such aesthetic concerns should be approached holistically.
> 
> I mean, do you want to be staring at an unattractive (to you) thing while you are listening to beautiful (to you) music?
> 
> ...


Listening with my eyes closed, sometimes sounds better, and sometimes not.  I usually do about half my listening with eyes open and the other half with eyes closed.  It also sounds better, when I tilt my head back.


----------



## Don Quichotte

A compromise is possible. One could listen with only one eye closed.


----------



## artur9

Wes S said:


> It also sounds better, when I tilt my head back.


With headphones?

I noticed this with speakers but I cannot fathom what would cause such a thing with headphones.  Unless maybe they settle better?


----------



## Wes S

artur9 said:


> With headphones?
> 
> I noticed this with speakers but I cannot fathom what would cause such a thing with headphones.  Unless maybe they settle better?


Yes.  I think it opens my ears up a bit more, and as a result get better soundstage.


----------



## mwb1

artur9 said:


> This is an aesthetic driven hobby.  Such aesthetic concerns should be approached holistically.
> 
> I mean, do you want to be staring at an unattractive (to you) thing while you are listening to beautiful (to you) music?
> 
> ...



I'm not being judgy.  I was honestly asking if you were being serious or if you were being facetious.  I've never heard of someone choosing a cable by its appearance so I was a bit puzzled by your response.  Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## artur9

mwb1 said:


> I've never heard of someone choosing a cable by its appearance so I was a bit puzzled by your response.


Given cables from equivalent quality manufacturers with equivalent connectors and the same price, how would you choose?

I mean, like audiophiles the world over, we could claim to have bought them all and auditioned them and then picked the one that had the best sound.  More often  it's a case of "gimme a damn cable already."


----------



## koover

Wes S said:


> Yes.  I think it opens my ears up a bit more, and as a result get better soundstage.


If I shut my eyes? Zzzzzzzzz
My wife freaks on me when she sees me sleeping for hours under the headphones. The thing that bothers me? She doesn’t wake me up.
I wish I could listen at all times with
My eyes closed because it does sound better


----------



## Rowethren

koover said:


> If I shut my eyes? Zzzzzzzzz
> My wife freaks on me when she sees me sleeping for hours under the headphones. The thing that bothers me? She doesn’t wake me up.
> I wish I could listen at all times with
> My eyes closed because it does sound better



Haha that sounds familiar. Sit down at 21:00 for a quick half an hour listen before bed... Wake up at 23:00 in my chair. DOH! Unfortunately (fortunately?) I don't have anyone to wake me up lol!


----------



## mwb1

artur9 said:


> Given cables from equivalent quality manufacturers with equivalent connectors and the same price, how would you choose?



Closest store that stocks the the cable or cheapest shipping price.


----------



## grokit (Apr 11, 2019)

Are there any CD transports that work with the Gungnir without making it click, mercilessly and repeatedly, directly out of its cabinet? According to Schiit, "If it’s clicking excessively on a CD transport when in pause, the CD transport has a cycling interruption in the datastream. _There’s no real fix for this, except getting another CD transport._ It won’t hurt the Bifrost or Gungnir, though—the relays are rated for several million cycles."

Alternatively, does Schiit make any DAC's that don't make an awful clicking sound when attached to a CD transport?!? It really ruins the listening experience when you can’t hold your place in a song to take a quick break, without an anxiety-inducing racket emanating from the component itself. At this point I am regretting my Gungnir purchase more than my new Cambridge CXC transport, which is awesome.

I was about to finally have my Gungnir upgraded, instead I'm now considering the heartbreaking fact that it will need to be replaced by something that offers more compatibility with CD transports. Right now I'm using my old Matrix MIni-i with its dual Adcom 1955 DAC chips, and it sounds great. I have no idea if Schiit's upgrade or even a new Yggdrasil would solve the issue unless Schiit gets back to me with a clue. I'm certainly not ordering a Yggdrasil just to pay the $120 plus shipping both ways to return it if it causes the same issue--I'd like some assurance in advance.

The Cambridge CXC seems to be the only CD transport that meets my needs. I like the Woo and even the Little Dot but they don't have a traditional footprint, they both seem a bit wonky, and the Woo is very pricey. All I want is to play my Redbook CDs, nothing fancy and I'm really impressed by the Cambridge. The real bummer is the two components look great together, but unfortunately they don't play as nice as they look.

Schiit.


----------



## Ableza

The "awful clicking sound" tells you two things.  One, as Schiit describes, that the data stream from your CD player is unstable, and two, that the bit-rate lockin of the DAC is functioning as intended.  I use a CD transport to a Yggdrasil that does not send spurious sample rate change data between tracks, a NorthStar 192. 

It's not the DAC at fault, it;'s the CD player you are using.


----------



## Juan_R

grokit said:


> Are there any CD transports that work with the Gungnir without making it click, mercilessly and repeatedly, directly out of its cabinet? According to Schiit, "If it’s clicking excessively on a CD transport when in pause, the CD transport has a cycling interruption in the datastream. _There’s no real fix for this, except getting another CD transport._ It won’t hurt the Bifrost or Gungnir, though—the relays are rated for several million cycles."
> 
> Alternatively, does Schiit make any DAC's that don't make an awful clicking sound when attached to a CD transport?!? It really ruins the listening experience when you can’t hold your place in a song to take a quick break, without an anxiety-inducing racket emanating from the component itself. At this point I am regretting my Gungnir purchase more than my new Cambridge CXC transport, which is awesome.
> 
> ...


Yggdrasil doesn't, I understand. My Music Hall cd25.2, discontinued, doesn't engage my multibit Gungnir's relay


----------



## Dr.J

I use the Remedy Reclocker between my CXC transport and Gungnir -  problem solved, SQ improved!


----------



## grokit (Apr 11, 2019)

Ableza said:


> The "awful clicking sound" tells you two things.  One, as Schiit describes, that the data stream from your CD player is unstable, and two, that the bit-rate lockin of the DAC is functioning as intended.  I use a CD transport to a Yggdrasil that does not send spurious sample rate change data between tracks, a NorthStar 192.
> 
> It's not the DAC at fault, it;'s the CD player you are using.


I'm sure Cambridge Audio has a different opinion. If this is functioning as intended, I need a different DAC. It's not only between tracks, it's whenever it's paused during a song as well.

According to Juan_R's post below, the Yggdrasil does not share this defect in design; have you tried your transport with a Gungnir or Bifrost?

The post below is also supported by the fact that Schiit leaves the Yggdrasil out, when it addresses this 'non-issue' in their troubleshooting section. It sounds like my "at fault" CD player would work just fine with it, theoretically. It's just not worth $200 for me to find out otherwise. The same troubleshooting section does confirm that the Bifrost shares this affliction.




Juan_R said:


> Yggdrasil doesn't, I understand. My Music Hall cd25.2, discontinued, doesn't engage my multibit Gungnir's relay


That looks like a great player, with a pretty decent DAC of its own. I saw a demo for sale for $800, just don't want to put my money into a DAC I'll never use; that's why I bought a transport!

Even so, because of the jam I now find myself in I would still consider buying the cd25.2 if the Cambridge was returnable, but it's too late


----------



## grokit (Apr 11, 2019)

Dr.J said:


> I use the Remedy Reclocker between my CXC transport and Gungnir -  problem solved, SQ improved!


Thank you, I'll probably end up ordering one. Can't wait to see what it sounds like! It just adds $400 to the Gungnir upgrade(!), then soon I'll be DONE* and can start listening in peace again.

_edit: _Discontinued by W4s. I thought I found a used one through Hifi Shark, but it was just the power supply. The search goes on...

Has anybody tried the *IFI SPDIF iPurifier *in this or a similar application? Searching threads now, as it's available.



Spoiler: *



Haha are any of us ever done...


----------



## Dr.J

Check here & in CND dollars:

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/search.php?keywords=Remedy+


----------



## Dr.J

If you go the Remedy route, you’ll need another interconnect, either rca, or preferably bnc. I have this one:

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...-nordost-silver-shadow-1-meter-digital-cable/

Good luck with your options!


----------



## grokit (Apr 11, 2019)

Has


Dr.J said:


> Check here & in CND dollars:
> 
> https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/search.php?keywords=Remedy+


Thanks again. I reached out to Walter as well as a seller on US Audio Mart, that has the big power supplies as well; 25 lbs. shipping with these PSUs...
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649513926-wyred4sound-remedy-reclockerwith-linear-power-supply/


----------



## Dr.J

Those are great PSU’s, seems like a good deal!


----------



## JTori

grokit said:


> Thank you, I'll probably end up ordering one. Can't wait to see what it sounds like! It just adds $400 to the Gungnir upgrade(!), then soon I'll be DONE* and can start listening in peace again.
> 
> _edit: _Discontinued by W4s. I thought I found a used one through Hifi Shark, but it was just the power supply. The search goes on...
> 
> ...



Note:  You'll never be done


----------



## grokit (Apr 13, 2019)

Dr.J said:


> Those are great PSU’s, seems like a good deal!


Pulled the trigger, should have the set next week. Can't wait to be click free, hopefully the SQ improvement will be obvious to me as well.



JTori said:


> Note:  You'll never be done


Agreed, I was just hoping to finally officially (temporarily?) graduate to tweaks, like cable upgrades and power conditioners.
I mean I really thought I was getting there, this transport was supposed to be the last piece of the puzzle dammit!
Before I start the cycle all over again, if I live long enough...
I'm still getting there, this was just a slight detour on the road to perceived component completion.
My old Gumby still screams for Schiit's upgrades, this just delayed it a bit.


Speaking of the Gungnir... I had an interesting time playing connection master for a bit. I realized that I had some untried options, one obvious and one that just worked out. Also a nice surprise.

In fact I was 'worried' that I would be able to get rid of the click _without_ the W4S unit, after I had considered these options but before trying them. The obvious alternate solution was a 1m glass toslink cable I had lying around. If the cable can make a difference, this is among the best of optical which seems different even if it's not; it's all spdif right? Unfortunately no dice, clickity clack with the glass in place.

My next option came to mind because I had been substituting my old Matrix DAC for the Gungnir for testing purposes, and I realized that it had a BNC input and a RCA coax out. So I put the Gungnir back into its place in my system, but with the Mini-i acting hopefully to enhance spdif timekeeping with the transport. Or something lol. Same as the optical cable, this exercise ultimately made no difference either.

The nice surprise was I had been a bit frustrated with the computer aspect of my listening, as I still have the Gen1 USB and I wanted to use toslink from my Mac laptops. Unfortunately my newish Air and my really old Powerbook (still runs PureMusic over iTunes) don't have toslink outputs in them; the former was too late and the latter too early. My old MBP would've been great, but it's dead and buried.

But I had been using an old Halide Designs/Devilsound USB>Spdif Converter cable with the Matrix and an old Mac Mini, and that plays wonderfully with the Macbook Air. Like really, really nice through my old D/S Gumby. I don't have Amarra installed yet, but the cable with Gumby is EQ'd so nice that I'm in no hurry to hunt down my user code.

In conclusion I have to state the obvious, that the Mini-i, as nice as it is for what it is, can't hold a candle to Gumby. Clean and smooth, but obviously not in the same league. It was nice to go down memory lane for a song or two, but that's about it. After an album I was back to Gumby and the clicking CD transport. And then back to the vinyl, for now. The show marches on...

I can't wait to try this new schiit out with my existing schiit next week, right before I tear all the schiit down again so I can move it next door. Then I'll set this shiit up right.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 20, 2019)

Hey all!  I just scored a Gumby, and I am super excited to be joining the club.   I will be pairing it , with a Liquid Platinum balanced and Lyr 3 single ended.  I am really pumped, to see what both these amps (my babies ), can really do with a TOTL dac.  Everything I have read, says that I am in for one heck of an experience.  I love a big, wide and deep sound, and know the Gumby is gonna perform.  I will report back, after it has been running, for a few days.


----------



## Charente

Wes S said:


> Hey all!  I just scored a Gumby, and I am super excited to be joining the club.   I will be pairing it , with a Liquid Platinum balanced and Lyr 3 single ended.  I am really pumped, to see what both these amps (my babies ), can really do with a TOTL dac.  Everything I have read, says that I am in for one heck of an experience.  I love a big, wide and deep sound, and know the Gumby is gonna perform.  I will report back, after it has been running, for a few days.



Congrats ! ... is this a new one ? I've been satisfied with mine for over two years.


----------



## RCBinTN

Wes S said:


> Hey all!  I just scored a Gumby, and I am super excited to be joining the club.   I will be pairing it , with a Liquid Platinum balanced and Lyr 3 single ended.  I am really pumped, to see what both these amps (my babies ), can really do with a TOTL dac.  Everything I have read, says that I am in for one heck of an experience.  I love a big, wide and deep sound, and know the Gumby is gonna perform.  I will report back, after it has been running, for a few days.



Congratulations, Wes. You will love the sound ... is the Gumby new stock from Schiit Audio?
It will pair very well with your amps and headphones.
Takes a few days to break in ...


----------



## Wes S

RCBinTN said:


> Congratulations, Wes. You will love the sound ... is the Gumby new stock from Schiit Audio?
> It will pair very well with your amps and headphones.
> Takes a few days to break in ...


Thanks!  I bought it used, so it should sound good after a day or so of being left on, and I am so excited to get this thing, I can hardly sit still.  The seller shipped today, so next week is gonna be fun.


----------



## RCBinTN

Wes S said:


> Thanks!  I bought it used, so it should sound good after a day or so of being left on, and I am so excited to get this thing, I can hardly sit still.  The seller shipped today, so next week is gonna be fun.



You bet! Like turning the great sound quality switch to the ON position. 
Do you know if it has Gen5 USB and a serial number starting with "B?" 
If so, that's the current new model that Schiit is selling ...


----------



## Wes S (Apr 20, 2019)

RCBinTN said:


> You bet! Like turning the great sound quality switch to the ON position.
> Do you know if it has Gen5 USB and a serial number starting with "B?"
> If so, that's the current new model that Schiit is selling ...


It is the older model (v1), and that is fine with me.  No Gen 5, but I already have an Eitr.  I just placed an order for some balanced PYST cables from Schiit, and I am good to go.


----------



## Charente (Apr 20, 2019)

Wes S said:


> No Gen 5, but I already have an Eitr.



Same here ... I found that injecting 'clean' 5v into the USB-B plug (via a power pig-tail), thereby isolating the computer vBus power, makes an audible and worthwhile difference to my ears. I use an UltraCap LPS-1 for the purpose.

EDIT: I might also suggest a RCA/BNC cable between the Eitr and GMB ... the BNC input is better.


----------



## 565hunter

Charente said:


> Same here ... I found that injecting 'clean' 5v into the USB-B plug (via a power pig-tail), thereby isolating the computer vBus power, makes an audible and worthwhile difference to my ears. I use an UltraCap LPS-1 for the purpose.
> 
> EDIT: I might also suggest a RCA/BNC cable between the Eitr and GMB ... the BNC input is better.



Please explain this in more detail in regards to Eitr and Gumby. "I found that injecting 'clean' 5v into the USB-B plug (via a power pig-tail), thereby isolating the computer vBus power, makes an audible and worthwhile difference to my ears. I use an UltraCap LPS-1 for the purpose."


----------



## Charente (Apr 21, 2019)

@565hunter ... I use a USB-B adapter (plugged into the EITR) which splits up the signal and power. It takes just the signal from the MAC/USB cable but 5v 'clean' power from the UltraCap LPS-1.
The adapter looks like this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








Clean power = clear sound ... natural & weighty sounding with good clear background detail ... in both my systems (below).

The main system is superlative with both MrSpeakers AFO and Senn HD-650. It never ceases to amaze me how well the Senns respond. In the office system, the Schiit LYR2, even with LISST's (!!), sounds remarkable, although tubes are preferred overall.

EDIT: I also use SonarWorks to fine tune the headphones.


----------



## 565hunter

Charente said:


> @565hunter ... I use a USB-B adapter (plugged into the EITR) which splits up the signal and power. It takes just the signal from the MAC/USB cable but 5v 'clean' power from the UltraCap LPS-1.
> The adapter looks like this
> 
> 
> ...


Okay, thanks for confirming your process. I still don't understand why you are powering the Eitr through USB. Eitr has it's own 6V AC power source. 

USB, Solved: Gen 5 Technology
The Eitr features the same unique Gen 5 USB input technology as in our upgradable DACs. It’s simply the highest-performance USB input available today, with complete electrostatic and electromagnetic isolation (via transformers), self-power of all critical low-noise and reclocking sections, and separate, precision clock sources for both 44.1 and 48kHz multiples. (And if you don’t understand the technobabble, here’s the point: it works great and sounds great, too.)

Linear, Low-Noise Power Supply—Built In
You won't need any "linear supplies" or other "add-ons" to improve Eitr—like all of our stackable products, we've built in a linear supply with multiple stages of ultra-low-noise voltage regulators. From the included 1.5A, 6VAC wall-wart to the output, there are no switching supplies in Eitr.

I'm not sure what you are powering with the LPS-1. Are you not using the Schiit 6V AC power connection? When I remove the AC power connection from my Eitr it ceases to function. It doesn't appear to draw any power from the USB connection. 
Please understand, I'm not being argumentative, just trying to understand what is going on.


----------



## Charente (Apr 21, 2019)

@565hunter ... no problem. This does NOT replace the external 6VAC PS. That part is absolutely fine.

As I understand from Mike Moffat's forum explanations in the past, there is a small draw from vBus power for the USB input & C-Media circuitry (100mA IIRC). Now, why and how this might affect the sound, considering all the isolation in the design, I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps this power is not isolated. But a difference there is to my ears.

I've only tried this on the EITR following a suggestion from a member on another forum ... whether this might also the case with the inbuilt Gen5 on the Gungnir, I don't know ... I have a GMB without Gen5, hence I use the EITR.

EDIT: If you don't give power at USB input, the EITR won't work.


----------



## 565hunter

Charente said:


> @565hunter ... no problem. This does NOT replace the external 6VAC PS. That part is absolutely fine.
> 
> As I understand from Mike Moffat's forum explanations in the past, there is a small draw from vBus power for the USB input & C-Media circuitry (100mA IIRC). Now, why and how this might affect the sound, considering all the isolation in the design, I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps this power is not isolated. But a difference there is to my ears.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for helping me understand. I guess I'll have to give it a go and see if my ears hear anything.


----------



## Wes S

Oh My!  The Gumby, has been running all week, and I just sat down for my first listen, with Lyr 3.  I have tears in my eyes, listening to Rhye - Open.  I have never heard it sound so freakin lifelike!  I was there, with the band.


----------



## Wes S

Getting the Gumby, has been the biggest and best change/improvement, I have experienced, in my 3 years of being in the headphone hobby.


----------



## hikaru12

Has anyone had the chance to compare the Gumby to the Chord Qutest? I’m looking to upgrade to a system with more micro-detail and transparency. I dont know if anyone has paid attention but I feel like the Gumby has a gray hazy background maybe due to the multibit board where the background isnt as black as it should be. I’ve noticed this throughout all of Schiits “entry level” DACs. I havent heard the Yggy to say if thats true or not.


----------



## Ichos (Apr 27, 2019)

I agree with  your observations above.
The Gumby A1 compared to a good DS DAC sounds hazy and veiled.
And there is a sizzle at the upper mid range.
I sold after two years of use.


----------



## kumar402

hikaru12 said:


> Has anyone had the chance to compare the Gumby to the Chord Qutest? I’m looking to upgrade to a system with more micro-detail and transparency. I dont know if anyone has paid attention but I feel like the Gumby has a gray hazy background maybe due to the multibit board where the background isnt as black as it should be. I’ve noticed this throughout all of Schiits “entry level” DACs. I havent heard the Yggy to say if thats true or not.


Qutest is very transparent and will extract every detail from the music if thats what you are looking for.
I have no experience with Gumby.


----------



## kumar402

Wes S said:


> Getting the Gumby, has been the biggest and best change/improvement, I have experienced, in my 3 years of being in the headphone hobby.


great to hear. I have been reading your posts from Liquid Platinum threads and I know how badly you were waiting for Aeolus and Gumby.


----------



## grokit (Apr 28, 2019)

My old d/s Gumby is running great with the W4s Remedy usb reclocker inserted in between it and my Cambridge CXC transport. Thanks again @Dr.J for the benefit of your experience. Between it and my old Halide Designs USB>Spdif converter cable for my laptop, I now have two great jitter/click-free digital sources for it.

I was surprised that nobody ever weighed in with success in using a cd transport, any cd transport, jitter/click-free directly with Gumby. There must be such an animal.




Ichos said:


> I agree with  your observations above.
> The Gumby A1 compared to a good DS DAC sounds hazy and veiled.
> And there is a sizzle at the upper mid range.
> I sold after two years of use.


Is there a sonic benefit to NOT upgrading from d/s to multibit?
Or to ask in another way, is the benefit of multibit over the d/s model being debated now?
Or is it more of the Gumby design in general starting to show its age.

I like my d/s Gumby, and was under the impression that the multibit upgrade is a no-brainer.
Is this paradigm changing, or has it changed?

_edit:_ A1 means multibit?


----------



## Ichos

A1 is the older version of Gumby as there's now commonly believed that there is a new silent upgrade to Gumby board and now sounds more neutral.

I have never heard the DS version.
But have compared Gumby to a lot of ds dac's.
Some were better some were worse.
At the end I preferred a DS DAC to Gumby and sold it.
Don't get me wrong it is a very good sounding DAC but it is not the Holly grail as it is hyped.
Nor the r2r dac's are the last word in DAC sound.
There are very good sounding ds dac's better than multibit one's.
Someone has to hear and decide.
Gumby still is hazy to my ears compared to a good DS DAC at the same price point.
But it is very " vinyl " sounding and maybe that is going to be appealing to someone.


----------



## Wes S

Don't think anyone called it the "Holy Grail", but it kicks ass, in my system.


----------



## Ichos

And that is what matters the most!


----------



## hikaru12 (Apr 30, 2019)

grokit said:


> Is there a sonic benefit to NOT upgrading from d/s to multibit?
> Or to ask in another way, is the benefit of multibit over the d/s model being debated now?
> Or is it more of the Gumby design in general starting to show its age.



My understanding is that Multibit is more analog and spacious sounding but at the cost of detail and extension that a good D/S DAC will have. R2R is an old technology and Multibit is probably a good balance between full blown NOS such as the Holo Spring or Pavane. It's an additional processing layer over the D/S side. I think Chords products are superior in the D/S finding a way to bring out all the detail without the harshness or digital glare typically associated with D/S DACs hence why I'm leaning towards getting one.

I think Schiit also has a hard time designing clean sounding power supplies at this price point - now Gumby is fully balanced so it might help in that regard but it doesn't sound like the music is coming from the void nor does it have the staging of the Yggy. I would say its about a 50% or so upgrade from Mimby, better in a lot of aspects and not so good in many others where you only notice a minor incremental change.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 30, 2019)

hikaru12 said:


> My understanding is that Multibit is more analog and spacious sounding but at the cost of detail and extension that a good D/S DAC will have. R2R is an old technology and Multibit is probably a good balance between full blown NOS such as the Holo Spring or Pavane. It's an additional processing layer over the D/S side. I think Chords products are superior in the D/S finding a way to bring out all the detail without the harshness or digital glare typically associated with D/S DACs hence why I'm leaning towards getting one.
> 
> I think Schiit also has a hard time designing clean sounding power supplies at this price point - now Gumby is fully balanced so it might help in that regard but it doesn't sound like the music is coming from the void nor does it have the staging of the Yggy. I would say its about a 50% or so upgrade from Mimby, better in a lot of aspects and not so good in many others where you only notice a minor incremental change.


I noticed a night and day difference between my Mimby (bought last year), and Gumby A1, using my Liquid Platinum amplifier.  Every aspect of the sound changed for the better, for me.  I am blessed with really good hearing, and don't need any more detail.  I like warmth, and a live sound, so perhaps the Gumby is perfect for me.  Oh wait, it is!  The balanced dac, pairs very well, with a balanced amp.


----------



## hikaru12

Wes S said:


> I noticed a night and day difference between my Mimby (bought last year), and Gumby A1, using my Liquid Platinum amplifier.  Every aspect of the sound changed for the better, for me.  I am blessed with really good hearing, and don't need any more detail.  I like warmth, and a live sound, so perhaps the Gumby is perfect for me.  Oh wait, it is!  The balanced dac, pairs very well, with a balanced amp.



Probably more to do with your amplifier then the DAC. Mimby on optical is not that far off from Gumby other then - staging, bass texture, and overall decay.


----------



## RCBinTN (Apr 30, 2019)

I owned the Gungnir D/S then upgraded to the Gungnir MB, then to the Gen5 USB.

The biggest improvement, for me, was D/S to MB.
That upgrade opened up the musical details (with the HD800). Suddenly, the music sounded analogue, not digital.
The Gen5 enabled the use of a direct USB input, which wasn't possible before the Gen5.

IMO, the magic is a combination of the high-end DAC chips that Schiit uses, plus their proprietary analogue stage.
In both the Gumby and Yggy (and now, Bimby?). It just works, and very well.

The amplifier does play a part in the overall SQ. Need enough power to drive the headphones, else they sound tinny ... LOL.

Happy listening, @Wes S ... it's all about the music - welcome to the Gumby Team


----------



## Mizicke5273 (Apr 30, 2019)

I'll say this, by adding my Gungnir D/S and current tube roll, I am very happy and satisfied with my rig.  All of my main headphones sound great and I have put a hold on my search for more and better bass.  I tend to base my heasephone purchases on improving bass; it is just what I seem to enjoy most.  I am not "done", just pausing and enjoying what I have.  There are a few headphones I am interested in and will likely buy at some point, but I think it would require too large of an investment to upgrade/sidegrade my amps and DAC at this point. 

Plus getting any bigger gear would require a major reorganization of my layout.  I currently have all my gear on my desk and have no more room.  What with my Gungnir, Jotunheim, La Figaro, and Loki; I actually had to place my Etir under my desk.

Also meant to add that the Gungnir really pulled my system together and took it to the next level.


----------



## rpaul

hikaru12 said:


> Probably more to do with your amplifier then the DAC. Mimby on optical is not that far off from Gumby other then - staging, bass texture, and overall decay.



If your comparison is based solely on optical, I'd suggest spending some time comparing using coax/BNC. In my experience those are better for Gumby (granted that also depends upon source used).


----------



## hikaru12

rpaul said:


> If your comparison is based solely on optical, I'd suggest spending some time comparing using coax/BNC. In my experience those are better for Gumby (granted that also depends upon source used).



Yeah I’m just trying to keep it apples to apples since Mimby only has optical as its best port. BNC or AES by in large are just better connectors in general no matter what DAC you use.


----------



## Mtavares_12 (May 1, 2019)

In my experience the differences between DAC's are setup dependent. After move to the Allo Digione Signature, I am considering that the sound quality between the Mimby and Gumby increased considerably. My previous transport was an Oppo 95. The Gumby is an excelent DAC and it is  transport dependent to demonstrate its full potential.

QJA


----------



## Wes S (May 1, 2019)

hikaru12 said:


> Probably more to do with your amplifier then the DAC. Mimby on optical is not that far off from Gumby other then - staging, bass texture, and overall decay.


Never thought to try optical, and dont plan on it, based on what I read.


hikaru12 said:


> Probably more to do with your amplifier then the DAC. Mimby on optical is not that far off from Gumby other then - staging, bass texture, and overall decay.


I was going to say the same thing to you.  The Liquid Platinum, is very revealing of upstream gear, based on Atomic Bombs testing.  


hikaru12 said:


> Yeah I’m just trying to keep it apples to apples since Mimby only has optical as its best port. BNC or AES by in large are just better connectors in general no matter what DAC you use.


Curious why your Mimby's best port is optical?  I use coax on Mimby and Gumby.  Just read the Schiit website, and they say optical is the worst.


----------



## bagwell359

Have had a Gumby for almost 4 years, I like it much more than the Yggy of the same time frame - it's that non digital sound that did it.

Got a CXC about 9 months ago.  I don't care about the clicking.  Read the track/time and let if run and go back, easy workaround.

There is one thing I do not like about the CXC - it is very sensitive to changes in VAC.  Great at 118 and up. Fair at 117.  Not good below that, not at all.  Took me some time to be sure.  Going to upgrade the power caps.  If that doesn't work it'll be the power supply.


----------



## SilverEars (May 6, 2019)

Wes S said:


> Don't think anyone called it the "Holy Grail", but it kicks ass, in my system.


Looking at your sig, I think you had the amps for it.  It's probably no random choice either.

I'm surprised you do not have 300 ohm Sennheisers.


----------



## Wes S (May 7, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> Looking at your sig, I think you had the amps for it.  It's probably no random choice either.
> 
> I'm surprised you do not have 300 ohm Sennheisers.


You nailed it!  I have been researching and slowly building my systems one piece at a time, and I feel like I have finally arrived, at a sound quality that emotionally connects me to the music.  The first time I heard my Gumby in the chain, I started crying listening to some of my favorite songs, they sounded so real.  I don't make a bunch of money, and it took some saving to get where I am at.  I know, there is better gear, but I am really happy with mine.  I actually do own the HD600 and HD650, I just don't have them in my sig.


----------



## RCBinTN

I must comment about my rig and especially the GMB/A2/Gen5.

I never thought that I would become a fan of drummers.
Now, when I hear the sublime sound of a perfectly-played drum kit, as revealed by Mike's MB technology, I am a fan!

The sounds made by guys like Tony Allen, Simon Phillips and Herlin Riley are spectacular - riveting.
These are uber-talented individuals, and, thanks to Mike, I get to realize the amazing SQ of their playing ... so realistic!
The HD800 really excel on this DAC technology and music genre.

I knew that John Bonham and Billy Cobham were great drummers (they Rock!), but IMO the jazz drummers are better.


----------



## Wes S

RCBinTN said:


> I must comment about my rig and especially the GMB/A2/Gen5.
> 
> I never thought that I would become a fan of drummers.
> Now, when I hear the sublime sound of a perfectly-played drum kit, as revealed by Mike's MB technology, I am a fan!
> ...


Awesome stuff!


----------



## Wes S

RCBinTN said:


> I must comment about my rig and especially the GMB/A2/Gen5.
> 
> I never thought that I would become a fan of drummers.
> Now, when I hear the sublime sound of a perfectly-played drum kit, as revealed by Mike's MB technology, I am a fan!
> ...


I can relate to your experience.  I spent another session last night with my system - ZMF Ori - Gumby - Liquid Platinum w/Brimar CV2492 tubes, it is one amazing pairing.  Now that I have added the Gumby (A1 and proud of it!), it is really freakin cool, to be able to pick out one of the instruments and really groove out.  The air and sense of space created around each instrument, really reminds me of hearing live music.  I always love going to shows, and focusing on one instrument at a time, and with this system I can do that.  I just got shipment notice, and will be receiving my Aeolus, tomorrow, and then I am sure I will be there.  I love this hobby, and would like to thank Schiit Audio, ZMF, and Cavalli Audio, for bringing me closer to my favorite musicians!  The warm euphonic, wide/deep, impactful, resolving, and lifelike sound the Gumby (A1) creates, is stunning!


----------



## kumar402

Wes S said:


> I love this hobby, and would like to thank Schiit Audio, ZMF, and Cavalli Audio, for bringing me closer to my favorite musicians!  The warm euphonic, wide/deep, impactful, resolving, and lifelike sound the Gumby (A1) creates, is stunning!


You forgot to mention Monoprice. It's the collaboration


----------



## Wes S

kumar402 said:


> You forgot to mention Monoprice. It's the collaboration


A big thanks to Monoprice, for bringing the LP to life!


----------



## RCBinTN (May 9, 2019)

Wes S said:


> I can relate to your experience.  I spent another session last night with my system - ZMF Ori - Gumby - Liquid Platinum w/Brimar CV2492 tubes, it is one amazing pairing.  Now that I have added the Gumby (A1 and proud of it!), it is really freakin cool, to be able to pick out one of the instruments and really groove out.  The air and sense of space created around each instrument, really reminds me of hearing live music.  I always love going to shows, and focusing on one instrument at a time, and with this system I can do that.  I just got shipment notice, and will be receiving my Aeolus, tomorrow, and then I am sure I will be there.  I love this hobby, and would like to thank Schiit Audio, ZMF, and Cavalli Audio, for bringing me closer to my favorite musicians!  The warm euphonic, wide/deep, impactful, resolving, and lifelike sound the Gumby (A1) creates, is stunning!



Awesome stuff - back at ya.
Shoot man, I remember the days when I couldn't understand the words to the songs ... HA!
ZMF is turning out some very interesting products lately ... you're doing a nice job of collecting them, Wes 

Happy Listening,
RCB


----------



## bagwell359

RCBinTN said:


> I must comment about my rig and especially the GMB/A2/Gen5.
> 
> I never thought that I would become a fan of drummers.
> Now, when I hear the sublime sound of a perfectly-played drum kit, as revealed by Mike's MB technology, I am a fan!
> ...



Good names.  Others: DeJohnettee, Steve Gadd, Tony Williams, Max Roach

Art Rock: Bill Bruford - the one and only


----------



## RCBinTN (May 16, 2019)

bagwell359 said:


> Good names.  Others: DeJohnettee, Steve Gadd, Tony Williams, Max Roach
> 
> Art Rock: Bill Bruford - the one and only



Very good! I'm somewhat familiar with Gadd, Williams and Bruford ... superb drummers!
Edit: Almost forgot ... I've been getting into Herlin Riley lately. A great jazz drummer


----------



## kumar402

Hi
Do i need to keep music playing for burn in or keeping it switched on is enough?
Mine is on for last 6-7 days but I'm yet to get that non fatiguing and analogue sound out of it. I read in few comments that A2 rev is more neutral and that's what is my experience so far has been.I mean it has very good dynamic, clean sound but I was looking for little laid back experience. I guess my only cure would be some R2R DACs


----------



## grokit (May 17, 2019)

bagwell359 said:


> Have had a Gumby for almost 4 years, I like it much more than the Yggy of the same time frame - it's that non digital sound that did it.
> 
> Got a CXC about 9 months ago.  I don't care about the clicking.  Read the track/time and let if run and go back, easy workaround.
> 
> There is one thing I do not like about the CXC - it is very sensitive to changes in VAC.  Great at 118 and up. Fair at 117.  Not good below that, not at all.  Took me some time to be sure.  Going to upgrade the power caps.  If that doesn't work it'll be the power supply.


Nice to hear that you prefer Gumby to Yggy, don't hear that much.
As far as the clicking I get what you're saying, but I honestly prefer to play a record at that point so I can just lift the cue when I want to pause.
Very glad I found out about the usb>spdif converter cable for click-free laptop listening as well.
I highly recommend the W4s unit with any transport, as well as the Halide cable (if you can find one) if you don't have the gen5 usb.
_edit:_ Who knows, with a proper power supply the Remedy might even help with the VAC issue you're experiencing.
Now I can enjoy Gumby without any annoying (to me) distractions. Not quite yet, but soon...


----------



## grokit

So... there's an 'A1' unit out of EU that had the main circuit board replaced by the European dealer because of the clicking?
It sounds like it was even done as warranty service? I wasn't aware that there was an internal fix available:


BoogieWoogie said:


> Yes it is.
> It was replaced because it made relay clicks. Yes of course  it was from the European dealer, have the invoice and it's still with warranty.


Is this another example of differing consumer protection/warranty laws between the US & EU?


----------



## Wes S (May 17, 2019)

grokit said:


> So... there's an 'A1' unit out of EU that had the main circuit board replaced by the European dealer because of the clicking?
> It sounds like it was even done as warranty service? I wasn't aware that there was an internal fix available:
> 
> Is this another example of differing consumer protection/warranty laws between the US & EU?


Strange! The maker of the dac, says the clicks are normal. . .Mine only clicks when powering on my Eitr, and changing from a Tidal hifi song, to a master version.


----------



## kumar402

Wes S said:


> Strange! The maker of the dac, says the clicks are normal. . .


I'm under the similar impression. It clearly says in manual that it will make clicks when there is change in sample rate etc. I don't remember the exact statement. Although I hear clicks within the device it has never been heard thru transducers in my case.


----------



## kumar402

RCBinTN said:


> Did you notice if the "time to buy better music" LED came on? That indicates an upstream source issue and the Gumby is trying to re-clock.
> 
> I also like @Ableza idea to reboot the Gumby. I reboot mine every time I use it (because I have to move it).
> Probably overkill on the reboots, but my SQ is very consistent session-to-session


Yes, it turned out to be source issue...the battery of my Digione signature player died as I forgot to change them. I use battery to power the HAT of digione.
But ya that LED never came on.


----------



## kumar402

I’m in love with this DAC. I like the denser tonality in vocals. In contrast Qutest has the extension in the vocals but the way Gumby rounds off the vocals gives it a nice denser tonality.
Also I am enjoying the holographic soundstage, it fills the big cups of empyrean  with sound and it engulfs you. It’s a nice experience.The stage seems deeper compared to Qutest which has more upfront staging. The layering and separation is fantastic in Gumby. Although Gumby gives that 3D soundstage , I feel Qutest has bit more depth due to more extension in treble?
I feel better micro dynamics in Gumby as I can hear instruments  at different level within a passage of play. However if you are fan of details Qutest pulls ahead as every little detail of music pops up at you but is it at the cost of dynamics, I am not sure? However I wouldn’t say I missed any detail in Gumby it’s just that every background instrument seems louder and easy to pick on in Qutest. Also with my listening level I didn’t find any difference in black background of Gumby and Qutest. Both are  dead silent


----------



## kumar402

I don’t have 2 Ch setup at home and I can only wonder how well Gumby will perform with good speakers and if Gumby has this good soundstaging then what about Yaggy.


----------



## artur9

I exclusively have a 2ch setup (headphones are for meetings .

Gumby's tonal richness and lack of digital glare please me every day.  I listen mostly to acoustic music (classical, jazz, 80s rock).  

The realism the Gumby offers is great.


----------



## pbui44

During the time I owned a Gumby, I used it to watch YouTube videos and audio recordings, which threw in ads before and in the middle of much longer videos.  Yeah, I bet a paid YouTube subscription would have helped kept this commercial and other ads from being auditorally ingrained into my memory:


----------



## robert766

I have my mind set on buying a Gumby. Unfortunately, they are quite hard to find at the moment. Out of stock at Sonority and nothing on the European used market. Great to read all your impressions and tips! Can't wait to find one.


----------



## Sonic Defender

robert766 said:


> I have my mind set on buying a Gumby. Unfortunately, they are quite hard to find at the moment. Out of stock at Sonority and nothing on the European used market. Great to read all your impressions and tips! Can't wait to find one.


Try Canada, sadly this one says sale pending, but it may fall through so contact seller anyway. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649528004-schiit-gungnir-multibit-gen-5-usb/


----------



## robert766

Sonic Defender said:


> Try Canada, sadly this one says sale pending, but it may fall through so contact seller anyway. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649528004-schiit-gungnir-multibit-gen-5-usb/



Thanks for the tip! Seller is looking for a local deal and it's a 110V. I suppose patience is a virtue. I'll get my hands on a gumby eventually.


----------



## Sonic Defender

robert766 said:


> Thanks for the tip! Seller is looking for a local deal and it's a 110V. I suppose patience is a virtue. I'll get my hands on a gumby eventually.


Duh, how silly of me, of course the voltage will be an issue. Totally didn't even consider that. Too bad, sorry I wasted your time like that. Good luck. I owned a Gungnir (original not multibit) and really liked it and I actually am considering getting a Gumby when I finish this most recent stint in university. Thanks for all the Tulips, this was a great year for them!


----------



## robert766

Sonic Defender said:


> Duh, how silly of me, of course the voltage will be an issue. Totally didn't even consider that. Too bad, sorry I wasted your time like that. Good luck. I owned a Gungnir (original not multibit) and really liked it and I actually am considering getting a Gumby when I finish this most recent stint in university. Thanks for all the Tulips, this was a great year for them!



No worries, any help is appreciated. The local reseller has it in stock in one or two weeks so I'll probably just go down that road.


----------



## RCBinTN

robert766 said:


> No worries, any help is appreciated. The local reseller has it in stock in one or two weeks so I'll probably just go down that road.



You can always approach the manufacturer with questions like this ... info@schiit.com.
They are very helpful


----------



## bagwell359

artur9 said:


> I exclusively have a 2ch setup (headphones are for meetings .
> 
> Gumby's tonal richness and lack of digital glare please me every day.  I listen mostly to acoustic music (classical, jazz, 80s rock).
> 
> The realism the Gumby offers is great.



All true for me too


----------



## bagwell359

EELawson said:


> I am testing my Gumby this weekend.  Leaving it on since Thursday at 8:00 PM.  At 48 hours, (Saturday evening late) it really bloomed.
> 
> I'm shocked.  I, too, thought this idea of leaving it on all the time was BS.
> 
> ...



No question about it.


----------



## JerryLeeds

My Gumby was originally purchased before there was a multibit version ... And I have been upgrading it ... 

I need another DAC ... Will a brand new multibit unit be better than what I have now?

Which should be my #1 and #2 dacs


----------



## bagwell359

JerryLeeds said:


> My Gumby was originally purchased before there was a multibit version ... And I have been upgrading it ...
> 
> I need another DAC ... Will a brand new multibit unit be better than what I have now?
> 
> Which should be my #1 and #2 dacs



I'd say it would be a slam dunk the multi-bit would sound better.  I'm interested in hearing the delta between the original Gumby (mine 2015) and the newer one.  A fried has a Gumby from 2017 which is the newer version.  We've got to switch for a few weeks soon.  The newer one is supposed to sound like a Yiggy.  The older one is more 'analog', and a bit cloudier they say.  All I know is I decided to go full digital and abandon my huge vinyl collection, and sublime vinyl rig after hearing the Gumby 1 and deciding it was as good or better than the ARC and Krell $20k units from a decade earlier - and more to the point sounded like music, and better than the analog - I tested 1k cuts on each side, and found 2 vinyl cuts that were better than the digitals.  And I was one of the most staunch analog/vinyl guys dating back to day of the first digital vinyl disc (Diahann Carroll - on Orinda 1979 - blecch).


----------



## ruthieandjohn

What is the actual change that renders a Gungnir to become “Multibit?”


----------



## RCBinTN

ruthieandjohn said:


> What is the actual change that renders a Gungnir to become “Multibit?”



It's a completely different design including different DAC chips. Best explained by the Schiit web site:
https://www.schiit.com/products/gungnir


----------



## ruthieandjohn

RCBinTN said:


> It's a completely different design including different DAC chips. Best explained by the Schiit web site:
> https://www.schiit.com/products/gungnir


The phrase from the Schiit site I don’t understand is “proprietary closed form digital filter...as in Yggdrasil.”


----------



## Ichos

It means that is running a custom dsp filter to fine tune the sound you are hearing.


----------



## robert766

No luck find a Gumby so far. Gumby's are out of stock at  the Dutch distributor and doesn't know when the item will be restocked. It seems I can't order with other European distributors. Is there a way around this? Maybe I should just buy a Bimby instead? The new ones are quite close apparently to the Gumby. Has anyone compared them?


----------



## Dr.J

Robert, I haven’t been following, but, if you haven’t already, try contacting Schiit directly: 

info@schiit.com


----------



## RCBinTN (Jun 24, 2019)

robert766 said:


> No luck find a Gumby so far. Gumby's are out of stock at  the Dutch distributor and doesn't know when the item will be restocked. It seems I can't order with other European distributors. Is there a way around this? Maybe I should just buy a Bimby instead? The new ones are quite close apparently to the Gumby. Has anyone compared them?



I haven't compared directly, the Gumby is a balanced design and slightly more resolving than Bimby, which is SE only.
If you don't need (or want) balanced then Bimby should be fine ... I've read a lot of great impressions as well.
Both are upgradable, which is key.

I would be interested in the answer you get from Laura at Schiit. This seems too complicated.


----------



## RCBinTN

ruthieandjohn said:


> The phrase from the Schiit site I don’t understand is “proprietary closed form digital filter...as in Yggdrasil.”



I don't understand 10% of what Jason writes about his amplifier designs, and don't purport to understand any of what Mike does.
I do know for sure that his Gumby with Gen5 USB design works perfectly and sounds great


----------



## SilverEars

ruthieandjohn said:


> The phrase from the Schiit site I don’t understand is “proprietary closed form digital filter...as in Yggdrasil.”


Don't you have a background in Signal Processing, and you've not heard of something like this?


----------



## Ableza

ruthieandjohn said:


> The phrase from the Schiit site I don’t understand is “proprietary closed form digital filter...as in Yggdrasil.”


There has been much posted about this by Mike Moffatt @Baldr on Head-Fi.  Suffice it to say it is a very different sort of digital filter that preserves 100% of the incoming signal rather than recreating some of it.


----------



## Dana Reed

RCBinTN said:


> I haven't compared directly, the Gumby is a balanced design and slightly more resolving than Bimby, which is SE only.
> If you don't need (or want) balanced then Bimby should be fine ... I've read a lot of great impressions as well.
> Both are upgradable, which is key.
> 
> I would be interested in the answer you get from Laura at Schiit. This seems too complicated.


I have a bimby and a gumby, but I don’t typically compare between them.  The bimby is for feeding my asgard 2 and lyr 2, and gumby is for the freya + 2 vidar, mainly to allow for more power for the magnepans


----------



## ruthieandjohn

SilverEars said:


> Don't you have a background in Signal Processing, and you've not heard of something like this?


I do have a background in signal processing (e.g. author of the Prentice-Hall textbook “Real Time Signal Processing.”). However, I do not understand what Schiit has done to create the Multibit version of their DACs.  

In other words, I don’t know Schiit. 

Maybe the answer is in “Schitt Happened.”  

If I read it, then maybe I WILL know Schiit.


----------



## SilverEars

ruthieandjohn said:


> I do have a background in signal processing (e.g. author of the Prentice-Hall textbook “Real Time Signal Processing.”). However, I do not understand what Schiit has done to create the Multibit version of their DACs.
> 
> In other words, I don’t know Schiit.
> 
> ...


I guess you want to understand it in more depth than what people here can just regurgitate what Mike said.

People quote Rob Watts all time, but it's just quotes.  There's a difference between understanding vs just quoting something they have no clear understanding of.

I don't understand people being so thrilled with concepts they don't understand that was spat out by designers.


----------



## Ableza

ruthieandjohn said:


> I do have a background in signal processing (e.g. author of the Prentice-Hall textbook “Real Time Signal Processing.”). However, I do not understand what Schiit has done to create the Multibit version of their DACs.
> 
> In other words, I don’t know Schiit.
> 
> ...


I recommend searching out @Baldr's posts.  Albeit on a layman's level in these forums, he goes into quite a bit of depth about what they were able to do VS how a typical delta-sigma DAC recreates the analog signal.


----------



## RCBinTN

SilverEars said:


> I guess you want to understand it in more depth than what people here can just regurgitate what Mike said.
> 
> People quote Rob Watts all time, but it's just quotes.  There's a difference between understanding vs just quoting something they have no clear understanding of.
> 
> I don't understand people being so thrilled with concepts they don't understand that was spat out by designers.



Nobody on these forums really understand what Mike's programming does, except for him and his colleagues.
We're just trying to be helpful.  I personally don't wanna know ... then he'd have to kill me


----------



## Ableza

A place to start:  https://www.head-fi.org/search/3144...o]=0&c[p][sonnb_xengallery_photo][aperture]=0


----------



## RCBinTN

Ableza said:


> A place to start:  https://www.head-fi.org/search/3144...o]=0&c[p][sonnb_xengallery_photo][aperture]=0



I didn't get a response from that link ...


----------



## Ableza

RCBinTN said:


> I didn't get a response from that link ...


Hmm.  OK, it is just a Head Fi search for the phrase "closed form" posted by Baldr on any subforum.  You can enter those terms in the search function from any forum page.


----------



## robert766

RCBinTN said:


> I haven't compared directly, the Gumby is a balanced design and slightly more resolving than Bimby, which is SE only.
> If you don't need (or want) balanced then Bimby should be fine ... I've read a lot of great impressions as well.
> Both are upgradable, which is key.
> 
> I would be interested in the answer you get from Laura at Schiit. This seems too complicated.



I had direct contact with Schiit: "unfortunately we are extremely low in stock of the Gungnir Multibit.  It is very possible a new order would be delayed by a couple weeks." 

Oh well I'll just have to wait and be patient. Thought about a Bimby but apart from sound quality a Gumby also offers a bit more flexibility with the BNC in and two SE and a XLR out. Very friendly customer service though!


----------



## KeithEmo (Jun 25, 2019)

The job of a DAC is to take in digital audio and convert it into analog audio - and there are several different ways of going about this.
Think of it like the differences between carburetors and fuel injection - or gasoline cars and electric cars - except that the differences aren't nearly as obvious with DACs.
As it so happens, multi-bit DACs are the older technology, while most modern designs are Delta-Sigma.
Also, as it happens, it's more difficult to design a multi-bit DAC that has good specifications (by modern standards).
(That's the main reason _WHY_ most modern DACs are D-S DACs.)
However, some people are quite convinced that one or the other sounds distinctly better.
(In theory, if all DACs were perfect, then the result would be exactly the same - a perfect analog version of the digital source.)
However, nothing in the real world is actually perfect, and multi-bit DACs and D-S DACs have different strengths and weaknesses.

It's not actually proper to say that "a DAC has been made into a multi-bit DAC".
It would be more correct to phrase that as "they have chosen to use multi-bit DAC chips rather than Delta-Sigma DAC chips in some of their products".
In this case, they have multiple versions of certain products, each using one or the other sort of circuitry to do its job.

(As a listener, you're best not trying to figure out how each works, and trying to imagine_ how that would make it sound_, and just listening to _how it does sound_.)

QUOTE="ruthieandjohn, post: 15026258, member: 389352"]I do have a background in signal processing (e.g. author of the Prentice-Hall textbook “Real Time Signal Processing.”). However, I do not understand what Schiit has done to create the Multibit version of their DACs.

In other words, I don’t know Schiit.

Maybe the answer is in “Schitt Happened.”

If I read it, then maybe I WILL know Schiit.[/QUOTE]


----------



## RCBinTN

robert766 said:


> Oh well I'll just have to wait and be patient. Thought about a Bimby but apart from sound quality a Gumby also offers a bit more flexibility with the BNC in and two SE and a XLR out. Very friendly customer service though!



It will be worth the wait, Robert


----------



## artur9

What I'd like to see is the 1914 patent (paper?) that @Baldr references every once in a while.  I've searched for it but couldn't find it.


----------



## Ableza

artur9 said:


> What I'd like to see is the 1914 patent (paper?) that @Baldr references every once in a while.  I've searched for it but couldn't find it.


It's a Bell Telephone Labs paper on time-domain and frequency alignment published in 1917.  I don't know if it is scanned and available on line.


----------



## artur9

Ableza said:


> It's a Bell Telephone Labs paper on time-domain and frequency alignment published in 1917.  I don't know if it is scanned and available on line.


What?!  I thought all human knowledge was on the 'Net.  Oh, No! you've shattered my faith in google!  

I suppose next you'll be telling me that all those pictures of Bigfoot that google finds are fake, too?


----------



## Ableza (Jun 25, 2019)

artur9 said:


> What?!  I thought all human knowledge was on the 'Net.  Oh, No! you've shattered my faith in google!
> 
> I suppose next you'll be telling me that all those pictures of Bigfoot that google finds are fake, too?


That might be a step too far.    Nessie, though, that's fake for sure.


----------



## rkw

KeithEmo said:


> That's the main reason _WHY_ most modern DACs are D-S DACs.


That i$n't the main rea$on.


----------



## KeithEmo

The main reason that Delta-Sigma DACs have almost entirely replaced R2R DACs is that, in almost all applications, they deliver _much_ better _measured performance_, at _much_ lower cost.
(The exception is pretty much limited to video and high-speed measurement applications where speed is more important than good linearity over a wide range.)

There is no conspiracy to sell people horribly bad DACs because they're cheap.
However, there is always a general pressure to deliver products with better performance at lower cost.
In general, at any price point, Delta-Sigma DACs deliver lower THD, lower noise, and better linearity than R2R DACs.
(And these are the performance specs that DAC designers and vendors, as well as most audiophiles, usually consider to be the most important.)

Of course, as usual, some audiophiles prefer to discount these specs, and look for other characteristics that they consider more important.



rkw said:


> That i$n't the main rea$on.


----------



## Dr.J (Jun 25, 2019)

KeithEmo said:


> The main reason that Delta-Sigma DACs have almost entirely replaced R2R DACs is that, in almost all applications, they deliver _much_ better _measured performance_, at _much_ lower cost.
> (The exception is pretty much limited to video and high-speed measurement applications where speed is more important than good linearity over a wide range.)
> 
> There is no conspiracy to sell people horribly bad DACs because they're cheap.
> ...





Keith, can you provide a few examples of coveted Delta-Signa DACs?


----------



## Voxata

Dr.J said:


> Keith, can you provide a few examples of coveted Delta-Signa days?


 This question is a rabbit hole. We ARE in Delta-Sigma days. The best measuring (and sounding) DACs I know of are all DS currently.


----------



## Dr.J

Sorry, auto correction changed dacs to days!


----------



## Dana Reed

Voxata said:


> This question is a rabbit hole. We ARE in Delta-Sigma days. The best measuring (and sounding) DACs I know of are all DS currently.


Probably can’t really correlate measurements and sound quality beyond a certain point.  Who cares if the distortion is 100 or 110 dB down. And if it’s 2nd and 3rd harmonics, probably doesn’t even matter if it’s 70 dB down


----------



## RCBinTN

We've covered the fact that D/S DACs measure better than do MB, ad nauseam, between Mike, Jude and the D/S attack trolls.
The DAC in question was the Yggdrasil. The discussion and data are well-documented on Head-Fi by Jude.

I owned both the Gungnir and Gumby. The Gumby sounds much better ... more musical / analog results.
I am sure the Gungnir D/S measures better, but I can't hear measurements. I can hear music.

FWIW, friends!
Happy Listening,
RCB


----------



## KeithEmo

That's kind of what I was thinking.

I have definitely heard R2R DACs that sounded audibly "just fine" and even a few that sound "great"....
However, the question is whether they sound good _because_ they're not D-S, or _in spite of _the fact that they're not D-S....

We are indeed in "Delta-Sigma days"....
D-S DACs have made it possible to actually build a great sounding 24 bit DAC, with great specs, for the price of a decent meal....
I can't quite figure out why some audiophiles seem to actually be _offended_ that DAC designers have figured out how to deliver excellent performance at incredibly low cost.

I'm happy that an 8-port gigabit Ethernet switch now costs $20...
And I'm equally happy that a DAC chip that can deliver real 24 bit performance costs about the same...
How can this _possibly_ be a bad thing?
(If it makes you feel better - just think of how much money AD spent to figure out how to make that $10 chip work so well.)



Voxata said:


> This question is a rabbit hole. We ARE in Delta-Sigma days. The best measuring (and sounding) DACs I know of are all DS currently.


----------



## Dr.J

Keith, can you provide a few examples of D-S giant killers?


----------



## Ableza (Jun 26, 2019)

Without getting into the subjectivist VS objectivist BS, I will say that in my PERSONAL experience, one of the worst sounding DACs I have ever owned (which I will not bash by naming) measured extremely well, and the best sounding DAC I have ever owned is Yggdrasil, which depending on which webs writer you read does not measure well.  I was using a $28,000 DAC from well-respected company Wavelength when I (skeptically) bought a Yggdrasil.  The Wavelength is now sold to someone else.  Why?  Because I liked the Yggdrasil more, and I don't really care why.  What I like is all that matters to me.


----------



## Voxata

It is great that worked out well for you, subjectively. We all have our preferences. I don't have trouble naming names so I will say that I preferred my DX7s to the Gungnir Multibit I also owned. Granted, I didn't prefer the headphone out of the 7s however when used as a DAC it performed very well. I will say that the performance gap was larger when using a modded 6XX, they just seemed to respond more.


----------



## Paladin79

Voxata said:


> It is great that worked out well for you, subjectively. We all have our preferences. I don't have trouble naming names so I will say that I preferred my DX7s to the Gungnir Multibit I also owned. Granted, I didn't prefer the headphone out of the 7s however when used as a DAC it performed very well. I will say that the performance gap was larger when using a modded 6XX, they just seemed to respond more.



I was involved in some double blind DAC testing that included 25 types ranging in price from $250 to $7,000 and the DX7 rated very high. This was strictly listening and included DS, r2r, multibit etc.

Most listeners were involved with a very good school of music as performers or professors along with audio engineers.


----------



## robert766

I never quite understand the point of having this discussion at all. If a certain DAC scores high in a blind test does this mean it is invalid for someone to like some other dac better? What does it prove other than personal preferences? First of all I think most people around are biased towards their own gear especially if it's relative new. Which is a good thing right? People should like their own headphones and amps etc. 

I just don't understand the desire and need to quantify something as personal and subjective as music enjoyment. If person A enjoys their $15000 dac more than a better measuring chi-fi dac who cares?


----------



## Paladin79

robert766 said:


> I never quite understand the point of having this discussion at all. If a certain DAC scores high in a blind test does this mean it is invalid for someone to like some other dac better? What does it prove other than personal preferences? First of all I think most people around are biased towards their own gear especially if it's relative new. Which is a good thing right? People should like their own headphones and amps etc.
> 
> I just don't understand the desire and need to quantify something as personal and subjective as music enjoyment. If person A enjoys their $15000 dac more than a better measuring chi-fi dac who cares?



Generally you hear one point of view from someone in here or you read the results of one reviewer. Any individual might love or hate a given product. Testing only gives you so much data and does not often speak to how musical a device might be. The test I mentioned tends to eliminate bias. I liked the test because it allowed me a comparison of devices I would have to travel all over the country to hear. I would love to do the same with headphone amps one day.

I know how I scored the devices and I can pay attention to how others rated them, or not. It was still a great experience.


----------



## Ableza

Since 100% of audio is perception, personal preference is what it's all about.


----------



## Voxata

Ableza said:


> Since 100% of audio is perception, personal preference is what it's all about.


    This is indeed what it is all about. At the same time having these discussions and getting that urge to try some different gear can be quite enjoyable and gives you a different view for better or worse.


----------



## Paladin79

That is true, and in this case what I picked as my top five favorites was pretty close to those selected by the entire group. My fifth pick was the groups sixth.


----------



## KeithEmo

I see your point of view, and understand it, and it's obviously your choice to make, but I think it depends to a large degree on your goals.

Here's a very basic question - and one that's well worth considering.....
Do you want a system that sounds good or do you want a system that accurately reproduces what you play through it?
(Let's assume that they may not necessarily be the same....)

There is no correct answer there... but whichever answer _YOU_ prefer is most certainly going to affect your purchasing decisions.
We all know that recorded music is far from perfect... and that there's no such thing as a perfect piece of equipment either.
However, your answer to that question is going to have a lot to do with how you select what gear you choose to listen to.

Personally, I prefer for my system to sound good, but I also want it to let me hear what I'm playing accurately.
And, for people who have that goal, while specifications may not ensure a successful result, they can absolutely rule out an unsuccessful one.
I've heard DACs with excellent conventional specs that sounded very good...
And I've heard DACs with excellent specs that I didn't think sounded good...
But, either way, I would not own a DAC with really poor specs.
Because, as proven by those specs, it is _NOT_ letting me hear what my recording actually sounds like (and that is what I want _MY_ equipment to do).

I had an interesting pair of vintage speakers once....
They weren't especially revealing... and in fact seemed to smooth over a lot of defects that would have been audible with other speakers.
They did such a good job of this that poorly recorded material actually sounded better on them than on a higher performance pair of speakers.
However, the downside of that was that, if you actually played a really high quality recording through them, they failed to convey as much of that quality as a better set of speakers.

No matter how good it seems to sound, if that DAC has a lot of distortion, or poor frequency response, I know it is _NOT_ letting me hear what my music sounds like.

I've used this analogy a lot (although it's rather trite)...
I personally happen to like Madonna's singing...
And I personally do not like Elvis Presley...
But I still wouldn't listen to a stereo system that made Elvis Presley albums sound like Madonna was singing...

And, likewise, I wouldn't walk around my home wearing bright yellow sunglasses... even though they make everything look bright and cheery.



Ableza said:


> Since 100% of audio is perception, personal preference is what it's all about.


----------



## Ableza

I stand by my statement, Keith.  You represent Emotiva so you stand by theirs.


----------



## KeithEmo

There are different kinds of blind tests....

Are we talking about a blind test where we ask a bunch of people what DAC they _like_ better?
Or are we asking a bunch of people which DAC they believe is more accurate to the original?
Or are we actually somehow testing which DAC is audibly closer to the original?
(We could run one signal through an A/D, and then our DAC, while running another through a simple analog buffer, and test how many people can tell one from the other.)

Obviously, out of these choices, everyone should choose what matters the most to them.

I would also remind that "the desire and need to quantify" is often driven by simple practicality.
Unless you have the opportunity to audition a few dozen different DACs your decision is going to be partly based on either other people's opinions or measurements.
At a very minimum, since you can't listen to all of them, you're going to be deciding which ones are worth taking time to audition, based on reviews or test measurement.
And, likewise, the only reason to care about how equipment you already own measures is as a way to compare it to equipment you haven't heard....
(Again, as a way to decide whether you should bother to audition other equipment, with the hope of discovering something you consider to be better.)



robert766 said:


> I never quite understand the point of having this discussion at all. If a certain DAC scores high in a blind test does this mean it is invalid for someone to like some other dac better? What does it prove other than personal preferences? First of all I think most people around are biased towards their own gear especially if it's relative new. Which is a good thing right? People should like their own headphones and amps etc.
> 
> I just don't understand the desire and need to quantify something as personal and subjective as music enjoyment. If person A enjoys their $15000 dac more than a better measuring chi-fi dac who cares?


----------



## Paladin79

KeithEmo said:


> I see your point of view, and understand it, and it's obviously your choice to make, but I think it depends to a large degree on your goals.
> 
> Here's a very basic question - and one that's well worth considering.....
> Do you want a system that sounds good or do you want a system that accurately reproduces what you play through it?
> ...



I own a lot of gear and go so far as to make modifications or build certain things to my own specs. One thing though, no matter what you hear, and listen to there are sometimes monetary limits. Do you want to spend another $10,000 for slight improvements to your system? I am to a point in my life where I could probably buy most any piece of gear I want but I prefer to invest in other things. 

I might believe what I am am hearing is so good it cannot get any better but I do not think that is a realistic approach. Unfortunately on occasion I hear speakers I like better or headphones I like better or DACS. Should I never go to listen to other equipment?  I have a Gungnir multibit DAC, and I use it a lot. Does this mean Schiit will never improve upon it or will I never hear something else I like better? Nope lol.

If you are happy with what you listen to, perfect, that is wonderful. I have not bought any new DACS since being involved in the testing, but I did find out there is a lot of good product out there, some of which I do not want to spend the money on. As I mentioned before, sometimes we just have reviews to read, or we can take advantage of trying out some Schiit product and sending it back if we do not like it. I am not sure how many others make that offer. I happened to be in a position to hear gear I could not hear in one place ever again, and I was able to form my own opinions about it as well as read others opinions if I so desired. It also eliminated any pre-conceived notions because I had no idea of brand or price. It was all about the listening. Someone mentioned a specific DAC earlier and not only do I own one, but I know several friends liked it. YMMV


----------



## KeithEmo

Just to be clear here...  all views expressed here are my own - personally.
As it turns out, my idea of "high fidelity" does happen to agree with the majority of others here at Emotiva, so that works out well for us both .... 

We don't really have a "company philosophy" beyond doing the best we can to provide products that do what the majority of our customers seem to want.
I would also point out that Schiit audio also has a similar philosophy... about leaving the choice up to their customers.
(They do in fact sell both R2R and D-S DACs, as well as both tube and solid state gear of other types.)

I've personally owned quite a few DACs over the years...
And had the opportunity to listen to many more...
And that included several R2R and R2R NOS models...
And all of the DACs I've continued to own are currently D-S ones...
(And, yes, given a choice between a DAC that accurately reproduces whatever I feed it, and one that alters it to "sound nice", I'm always going to choose accurate.)



Ableza said:


> I stand by my statement, Keith.  You represent Emotiva so you stand by theirs.


----------



## Paladin79

KeithEmo said:


> Are we talking about a blind test where we ask a bunch of people what DAC they _like_ better?
> Or are we asking a bunch of people which DAC they believe is more accurate to the original?
> Or are we actually somehow testing which DAC is audibly closer to the original?
> (We could run one signal through an A/D, and then our DAC, while running another through a simple analog buffer, and test how many people can tell one from the other.)



I would be happy to answer this in private so the thread stays on topic.


----------



## KeithEmo

Where I work, at Emotiva, we are currently "between high-end DAC models"...
However, we do also offer a 30 day return/refund policy on all of our gear...
So there are still a few opportunities to audition before making a commitment.

Sadly, there are fewer and fewer stores where you can audition equipment left...
However, it is worth noting that you will usually find DACs, as well as headphone amps, at the various headphone meets that run from time to time...



Paladin79 said:


> I own a lot of gear and go so far as to make modifications or build certain things to my own specs. One thing though, no matter what you hear, and listen to there are sometimes monetary limits. Do you want to spend another $10,000 for slight improvements to your system? I am to a point in my life where I could probably buy most any piece of gear I want but I prefer to invest in other things.
> 
> I might believe what I am am hearing is so good it cannot get any better but I do not think that is a realistic approach. Unfortunately on occasion I hear speakers I like better or headphones I like better or DACS. Should I never go to listen to other equipment?  I have a Gungnir multibit DAC, and I use it a lot. Does this mean Schiit will never improve upon it or will I never hear something else I like better? Nope lol.
> 
> If you are happy with what you listen to, perfect, that is wonderful. I have not bought any new DACS since being involved in the testing, but I did find out there is a lot of good product out there, some of which I do not want to spend the money on. As I mentioned before, sometimes we just have reviews to read, or we can take advantage of trying out some Schiit product and sending it back if we do not like it. I am not sure how many others make that offer. I happened to be in a position to hear gear I could not hear in one place ever again, and I was able to form my own opinions about it as well as read others opinions if I so desired. It also eliminated any pre-conceived notions because I had no idea of brand or price. It was all about the listening. Someone mentioned a specific DAC earlier and not only do I own one, but I know several friends liked it. YMMV


----------



## Ableza

KeithEmo said:


> Just to be clear here...  all views expressed here are my own - personally.


I was just poking you, thus the smiley face.


----------



## Voxata

KeithEmo said:


> Here's a very basic question - and one that's well worth considering.....
> Do you want a system that sounds good or do you want a system that accurately reproduces what you play through it?



This is quite correct. I've owned gear that has warmed up the sound and made things very enjoyable. However, when I game on my PC spacial queue's are messed up. I need a piece of gear that sounds incredible with music and doesn't alter the sound heavily. So, my motive is mostly accuracy and then enjoyment. Still, mix and match your chain accordingly and you can have a good taste of both.


----------



## kcazbarach (Jun 26, 2019)

Finally arrived, still can't believe id ever spend this much on a DAC. but for me Gungnir is to be my "end-game" DAC (at least i Hope).

been up for a few hours. and i haven't listened too much, but the vocals sound better. not sure how to describe it. but in some of the music im listening to, they sound way better than the previous DAC. Note: previous dac was ODAC from jdslabs (way long ago)



PS: I also stupidly spent a good 20 minutes trying to figure out why it wasn't working for me after i had set it up. I was not getting any sound at all. (had to press the button on the front for USB Lololol)


----------



## kumar402

kcazbarach said:


> Finally arrived, still can't believe id ever spend this much on a DAC. but for me Gungnir is to be my "end-game" DAC (at least i Hope).
> 
> been up for a few hours. and i haven't listened too much, but the vocals sound better. not sure how to describe it.


I think the word you are looking for is "dense tonality" 
Keep it on for next 2-3 days. It will get better and better.


----------



## artur9

KeithEmo said:


> Just to be clear here...  all views expressed here are my own - personally....


Are there measurements which actually show the difference between D/S DACs and other types of DACs?

Like, supposedly, D/S DACs have really poor INL or something.


----------



## RCBinTN

artur9 said:


> Are there measurements which actually show the difference between D/S DACs and other types of DACs?
> Like, supposedly, D/S DACs have really poor INL or something.



I remember this thread, and it's a painful memory, but it may help answer your question ... happy reading 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-yggdrasil-v2-upgrade-technical-measurements.881867/


----------



## artur9

I remember that but I don't think it helps with the question I was trying to ask.  

Let me try another way:  Given a set of measurements is there anything that would make one say "Ah! That's a D/S DAC" vs "Ah! That's an R2R DAC"


----------



## RCBinTN

Perhaps try the Sound Science forum.


----------



## kcazbarach

kumar402 said:


> I think the word you are looking for is "dense tonality"
> Keep it on for next 2-3 days. It will get better and better.



yea definitely is getting better.


----------



## Byronb

I can hear the difference. At least I think I can, and to me that really is all that matters.


----------



## robert766 (Jul 1, 2019)

Just got my hands on a Gumby! Had a quick 10 minute listen before I had to go back to work but first impression is good. Much meatier and more lively than the dac out of the bluesound node2 haha. Can't wait to have a better listen tonight.

Oh I didn't even know Oxford Comma by Vampire weekend had a bass line at all


----------



## Mizicke5273

robert766 said:


> Just got my hands on a Gumby! Had a quick 10 minute listen before I had to go back to work but first impression is good. Much meatier and more lively than the dac out of the bluesound node2 haha. Can't wait to have a better listen tonight.
> 
> Oh I didn't even know Oxford Comma by Vampire weekend had a bass line at all



Congrats on finally tracking one down!  Enjoy!


----------



## RCBinTN

robert766 said:


> Just got my hands on a Gumby! Had a quick 10 minute listen before I had to go back to work but first impression is good. Much meatier and more lively than the dac out of the bluesound node2 haha. Can't wait to have a better listen tonight.
> 
> Oh I didn't even know Oxford Comma by Vampire weekend had a bass line at all



Hooray! Congratulations, welcome to the Gumby Team.

I had a similar bass revelation when upgraded Gungnir to Gumby.
The bass was more present, extended and punchy.
That was the day I realized my rig could finally properly drive the HD800


----------



## Ableza

KeithEmo said:


> (And, yes, given a choice between a DAC that accurately reproduces whatever I feed it, and one that alters it to "sound nice", I'm always going to choose accurate.)


And the key word there is "choice."  It's 100% a personal, subjective, perceptually based choice.

When I am designing something I will measure and strive for accuracy and linearity and proper operation within the limits of the components being used.  Always.  But if it's audio gear - and I have designed quite a few commercially sold loudspeaker systems - I will listen to the results and if necessary make changes to improve the likability of the sound, even if this means moving away from "accuracy" in favor of "crowd pleasing" or "lovely" or "musical."

But as consumers of electronic equipment we are not designers.  I will always choose what sounds or looks best to me.  As will the majority of consumers out there.  Once you get past the mental masterbation of obsessing over numbers and graphs, it really comes down to appreciation.  Otherwise, there would be one piece of equipment that everyone bought if it measured "perfectly."  But since two pieces of similar gear with similar measurements can and usually do sound different to every set of ears, there are many choices available.  It's about preference.  Vive le difference.


----------



## lagadu

Ugh, I have the worst luck; after having a weekend to try a gumby I ordered one but the unit I bought was a dud. Unfortunately the EU distributor (sonority-audio) aren't replying to my emails so I had to initiate a chargeback. Has anyone else had issues with them?


----------



## robert766

I'm sorry to hear about your bad luck. You'll get your hands on one eventually.

I only had contact with Sonority to inquire about Gumby stock. They replied within a few hours to all of my e-mails.


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 23, 2019)

Somebody told me that you are not suppose to have both RCA single-ended output connected at the same time.  Is that true?  Are they sharing a single voltage signal output?  One time I had two tube amps connected and one of them wasn't outputting one of the channels.

Above would make no sense to have two RCA outputs then.  Hmmm.


----------



## Alcophone

SilverEars said:


> Somebody told me that you are not suppose to have both RCA single-ended output connected at the same time.  Is that true?  Are they sharing a single voltage signal output?  One time I had two tube amps connected and one of them wasn't outputting one of the channels.
> 
> Above would make no sense to have two RCA outputs then.  Hmmm.


It's probably the same as with Yggy, it doesn't like it when connected devices short their inputs. It should be okay to have multiple devices connected as long as they are all on and set to the input Gumby is connected to, or don't short the corresponding input if that's not the case.


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 24, 2019)

Alcophone said:


> It's probably the same as with Yggy, it doesn't like it when connected devices short their inputs. It should be okay to have multiple devices connected as long as they are all on and set to the input Gumby is connected to, or don't short the corresponding input if that's not the case.


I read that post by Currawong, but I feel like I'm missing some details.  If one set shorts, what's happening on the other sets of RCAs?

From what I've read, one set can short if the amp connected to is switched off or amp's input is switch to another input.  So, from this I take it that if I connect both RCA sets to the same amp, and if I switch inputs, one of them may be shorted, and would effect the selected input signal.

What kind of effect this shorting do?  For couple of amps, I notice a channel went out.  This was with two Bottle head amps, both connected with RCA.  Is it due to one set shorted, one of the channels went out on one of the amps?  Also, is another possibility the output level lowers due to a short in the other channel?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I suggest a query to Schiit.  They have always been responsive to my questions.


----------



## Alcophone (Jul 24, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> I read that post by Currawong, but I feel like I'm missing some details.  If one set shorts, what's happening on the other sets of RCAs?
> 
> From what I've read, one set can short if the amp connected to is switched off or amp's input is switch to another input.  So, from this I take it that if I connect both RCA sets to the same amp, and if I switch inputs, one of them may be shorted, and would effect the selected input signal.
> 
> What kind of effect this shorting do?  For couple of amps, I notice a channel went out.  This was with two Bottle head amps, both connected with RCA.  Is it due to one set shorted, one of the channels went out on one of the amps?  Also, is another possibility the output level lowers due to a short in the other channel?


All I've read and experienced (with the Yggdrasil) is distortion. Basically, something sounds broken. The first time it happened, I thought my speakers were damaged.
I'm guessing here, but input impedance (for the connected decices) is typically specified in the kOhm range. If a connected device shorts the inputs, the signal goes straight to ground. Electricity follows the past of least resistance, and impedance is frequency dependent resistance. I don't know why that results in distortion in the DAC (for all connected devices - maybe clipping?), but I could see that affecting the volume of other devices, too. I don't understand all the details involved, though, or how other DACs overcome this.


----------



## kumar402

_What about using Balanced and RCA?
Is there an issue if one of the connected devices is off_


----------



## robrob

I bought an early model Gungnir a few years ago and I've always had to use the S/PDIF input because the USB was flakey. Sometimes the USB would work and then it would just disappear and my Win 10 computer wouldn't recognize it. For the last year or so I got a "unrecognized device" error when resetting the USB connection. I jumped through all the suggested driver installs/deletes/installs . . . but to no avail.

I broke down and ordered the Gen 5 USB upgrade board from Schiit for $112 delivered. I got it installed today and boom, it just works. The Gungnir and Mjolnir sound fantastic. If you have a flakey USB it might be worth it to upgrade.

I installed the board myself wearing a static electricity drain "bracelet" because a stray shock can fry the main or sub boards. You have to remove the top cover and then remove the screws on the bottom and back to slide out the main PCB. Keep track of the screws because they differ in size and length. The USB board (it's the one with the USB connector  ) is held onto the main board by two standoffs and is connected using two multi-pin jumpers. The swap was straightforward and I'm very happy to have my Gung whole again.


----------



## SilverEars (Jul 25, 2019)

Looks like Zeos ran into a DAC that sounds different.  lol

First DAC that I ran into that sounded significantly enough difference be noticeable was Ayre Codex, which later on I realized sounds pretty much identical to Gumby.  I think part of the culprit was BHA-1 amp connected to the Codex/Gumby.  Maybe at some point he will also realize THX 789 isn't as good of an amp he thinks it is.


----------



## kumar402

SilverEars said:


> Looks like Zeos ran into a DAC that sounds different.  lol
> 
> First DAC that I ran into that sounded significantly enough difference be noticeable was Ayre Codex, which later on I realized sounds pretty much identical to Gumby.  I think part of the culprit was BHA-1 amp connected to the Codex/Gumby.  Maybe at some point he will also realize THX 789 isn't as good of an amp he thinks it is.


I sincerely feel he shouldn't do DAC review. He goes in a DAC review with a closed mindset that all DAC are same. In his review he never touches on the sound, texture, tonality, soundstage. He just rambles things like I can't hear anything etc etc. I stopped watching his DAC review.


----------



## Paladin79

kumar402 said:


> I sincerely feel he shouldn't do DAC review. He goes in a DAC review with a closed mindset that all DAC are same. In his review he never touches on the sound, texture, tonality, soundstage. He just rambles things like I can't hear anything etc etc. I stopped watching his DAC review.


DACs are certainly not all the same and the power supply and output stage can make a difference in sound even when using the same DS chips. I was involved with blind listening on 20 quality DAC’s and some rated consistently better sounding than others regardless of price. My choices were pretty close to the final standings but a couple people were spot on. (25 participants).


----------



## eee1111

SilverEars said:


> Looks like Zeos ran into a DAC that sounds different.  lol
> 
> First DAC that I ran into that sounded significantly enough difference be noticeable was Ayre Codex, which later on I realized sounds pretty much identical to Gumby.  I think part of the culprit was BHA-1 amp connected to the Codex/Gumby.  Maybe at some point he will also realize THX 789 isn't as good of an amp he thinks it is.




why does this guy have such a big following?

he is annoying


----------



## ScubaMan2017

_Hello Gungnir thread! ~394 pages to check out._


----------



## TK16

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _Hello Gungnir thread! ~394 pages to check out._


You a new owner? Gumby?


----------



## m usicguy

I have a gumby and a eitr.   So usb input or eitr which means i can add a spidf cable.  Which one do you think sounds better.  Plus i can use a true 75ohm bnc connector?   which sounds better??

musicguy.


----------



## rkw

m usicguy said:


> I have a gumby and a eitr.   So usb input or eitr which means i can add a spidf cable.  Which one do you think sounds better.


If your Gumby has the Gen 5 USB card, it is equivalent to an Eitr.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

TK16 said:


> You a new owner? Gumby?


Nope. I have a ding dong fascination of upgrading my source (and improving my DAC). My current set up: (Chromebook) >>> (Android’s Foobar2000 *OR* Android VLC *OR* Google Play) >>> (EITR) >>> (Modi Multibit) >>> (Loki + Magni + Vali + Valhalla). My music files are ripped-discs. No vinyl. No cassette tapes.

I’m restricted to just headphone listening. I really curious about the Gungnir’s Adapti-clock (?!) processing. Will a Gungnir Multibit DAC have a different sound than my (EITR)-(ModiMB) combination? I have a big birthday coming up next year, so I can blow a wad on such a frivolous device (and perhaps a planar magnetic headphone and a high impedance headphone [Beyerdynamic 300-600Ohm for my Valhalla]).

My gut tells me I’ll get more satisfaction with different headphones and quality (i.e., hdtracks dot com) music files... than a Gungnir-MB. Dunno...


----------



## lagadu

Yay, after getting a dud and getting it exchanged my gumby is here; looking forward to the evening!


----------



## Ichos

This is an excellent match with your mjolnir 2!!!


----------



## RCBinTN

ScubaMan2017 said:


> My gut tells me I’ll get more satisfaction with different headphones and quality (i.e., hdtracks dot com) music files... than a Gungnir-MB. Dunno...


My advice is a Gungnir MB being fed a steady diet of Redbook FLAC 16/44.1 music.
I got the idea from Mike Moffat ... he's a genius


----------



## ScubaMan2017

RCBinTN said:


> My advice is a Gungnir MB being fed a steady diet of Redbook FLAC 16/44.1 music.
> I got the idea from Mike Moffat ... he's a genius


10-4, eh.


----------



## RCBinTN (Aug 6, 2019)

10-4, eh 
It just works. Then, get any headphone your amp will drive ... the path to audio bliss.


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 24, 2019)

Now I believe that the multi-bit does go through changes over time.  I just wonder how stable the DAC chip is if it's sensitive to being on awhile being a factor?  I've definitely had times when it sounds more bright at certain point when it comes to sibilence and not even sure it was stable. I thought it was too much of a difference to my ears, and really made me question can one's ear condition change that much. Was there short power outage on those days?  Or does change on certain conditions even if powered was on continuously?

I think the first time I've experience this when I first got my Gumby it sounded terribly bright and screechy and regretted my purchase, and oddly the this screechyness settled down after few hours.  For the longest time I thought it was my ears burned-in, but I don't believe it's the case with the multi-bit.

I wish I can get more details on this to more assured what is going on.  Like information about DAC chip, and some measurements done over time.  Why arn't there somebody curious enough to do several measurements over time to see if the changes are reflected with measurements?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

SilverEars said:


> Now I believe that the multi-bit does go through changes over time.  I just wonder how stable the DAC chip is if it's sensitive to being on awhile being a factor?  I've definitely had times when it sounds more bright at certain point when it comes to sibilence and not even sure it was stable. I thought it was too much of a difference to my ears, and really made me question can one's ear condition change that much. Was there short power outage on those days?  Or does change on certain conditions even if powered was on continuously?
> 
> I think the first time I've experience this when I first got my Gumby it sounded terribly bright and screechy and regretted my purchase, and oddly the this screechyness settled down after few hours.  For the longest time I thought it was my ears burned-in, but I don't believe it's the case with the multi-bit.
> 
> I wish I can get more details on this to more assured what is going on.  Like information about DAC chip, and some measurements done over time.  Why arn't there somebody curious enough to do several measurements over time to see if the changes are reflected with measurements?


If I understand your musings, I think you're suggesting that these chipsets age with time. Does our multibit (GungnirMB & ModiMB) have some sort of resiliance that's better than non-MB. This is far beyond my understanding. _Funny thing is... it was one of my reasons for picking up the Valhalla2. It's unappologetically analog with all kinds of components that heat up expand and contract. _
The vast majority of posts that I've seen on these threads maintain that unless the digital components fizzle out, they remain stable. I wonder, @SilverEars , if we'll be alive long enough to see how our 2010-2020era electrical components fare 40-50 years from now? Christ, maybe I'll be alive long enough to have my Magni & Valhalla "recapped"!


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 25, 2019)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> If I understand your musings, I think you're suggesting that these chipsets age with time. Does our multibit (GungnirMB & ModiMB) have some sort of resiliance that's better than non-MB. This is far beyond my understanding. _Funny thing is... it was one of my reasons for picking up the Valhalla2. It's unappologetically analog with all kinds of components that heat up expand and contract. _
> The vast majority of posts that I've seen on these threads maintain that unless the digital components fizzle out, they remain stable. I wonder, @SilverEars , if we'll be alive long enough to see how our 2010-2020era electrical components fare 40-50 years from now? Christ, maybe I'll be alive long enough to have my Magni & Valhalla "recapped"!


I cannot say for all multi-bits (including non-schiit stuff).  What I've been told was that Gumby and Yggdrasil need a period of time for the DAC chip to stabalize due to Schiit's choice in the choice of chip was to cut costs, and drive up the multibit owner's yearly electricity bill $50 - $100, since it must be left on, due to it's warm up period.

When I initially heard or read about this I thought it was some audiofoolry or superstitions for audiophiles to mess with them(lol).

Any reasonable people would not expect electronics to require a warm-up period to stabalize.  I never had a DAC I expected to, so why should I?

The reasoning is the chip from what I read around.  It's a military grade DAC chip for mechanical applications(correct me on this)?  Not originally intended for sound signal DAC usage.

Based on my experience, there seems to be validility to all this.  I've heard of weirdness to the sound in the early stages from turning on and there were days I recall it sounding less than ideal.

If people have more indepth knowledge, I like to hear about the scientific reasoning behind this (because I said so doesn't cut it).  What's really going on.  I understand this can happen, but there elecment of weirdness to it as well. Becaus I've not read a satifying reasong yet besides the usual 'it took me several days to stabalize,' etc.  Because audiphiles are crazies, and they can exaggerate things.  They can say it takes anywhere from couple days to 3 weeks to stabalize.  The problem is, it's all based on sampling with their perception, and I know there are crazies out there (lol).

By the way, I don't necessarily mean age with time, but it takes time for the chip to stabalize it's sound output.  I don't mean it like tubes that degrades over time.


----------



## RCBinTN (Aug 25, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> ... Schiit's choice in the choice of chip was to cut costs, and drive up the multibit owner's yearly electricity bill $50 - $100, since it must be left on, due to it's warm up period.


Where is this load of crap coming from? Been listening to the Topping trolls again?
The MB DAC chips that Schiit uses are actually much more expensive than run-of-the mill DAC chips.
Schiit MB doesn't use the built-in analogue section like most DAC chips have - Mike designed his own analogue section.
That's the part of the DAC that needs thermal stability for consistent long-term sound.

I've owned a GMB/A2 for two years. After initial warm-up, it's been very stable WRT sound quality ever since.
I do leave it turned "on" all the time, when not in use, which I recommend as does Mike Moffat.
I wouldn't notice a $4-$8/month difference in my electric bill anyway ... mother nature moves it way more than that


----------



## SilverEars (Aug 25, 2019)

RCBinTN said:


> Where is this load of crap coming from? Been listening to the Topping trolls again?
> The MB DAC chips that Schiit uses are actually much more expensive than run-of-the mill DAC chips.
> Schiit MB doesn't use the built-in analogue section like most DAC chips have - Mike designed his own analogue section.
> That's the part of the DAC that needs thermal stability for consistent long-term sound.
> ...


There's something you're not understanding here. Obviously I'm not comparing to delta sigma chips.  Also,in the new Yggy manual it talks about leaving it on and the estimation of the annual electricity bill.  You're not stating any new.  So please, if you got something substantial like explaining what's going on, what's the point?  We get you like Gumby, etc.. etc..


----------



## RCBinTN

SilverEars said:


> We get you like Gumby


Yep, I do like Gumby the DAC, and will continue to beat its drum especially on this appreciation thread


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Aug 25, 2019)

RCBinTN said:


> Where is this load of crap coming from? Been listening to the Topping trolls again?
> The MB DAC chips that Schiit uses are actually much more expensive than run-of-the mill DAC chips.
> Schiit MB doesn't use the built-in analogue section like most DAC chips have - Mike designed his own analogue section.
> That's the part of the DAC that needs thermal stability for consistent long-term sound.
> ...


There's a YouTube channel of an electrician who repairs and resells vintage audio gear and diagnostic equipment (Mr Carlson's Lab). I'm curious to see how Schiit boards & components age after 20... 30... even 40 years (by then, I'll be in my nineties). I wonder if the users in the 1940-60s had similar conversations about their cutting edge analog gear. Mind you, digital is a whole new mindset. What will an antique Gungnir Multibit DAC act like? Dunno...


----------



## skyline315

The warmup stuff isn't limited to Schiit products and isn't a special thing related to MB chips.  

https://www.audiostream.com/content...l-devices-and-proper-warm-ideal-listening-and

If this is holding anyone back from getting a Gumby, then their loss.  

Leave DACs on 24/7 and stop worrying.


----------



## jcn3 (Sep 11, 2019)

SilverEars said:


> There's something you're not understanding here. Obviously I'm not comparing to delta sigma chips.  Also,in the new Yggy manual it talks about leaving it on and the estimation of the annual electricity bill.  You're not stating any new.  So please, if you got something substantial like explaining what's going on, what's the point?  We get you like Gumby, etc.. etc..



power consumption of a gumby is only 20 w -- less than a light bulb.

the online version of the yggy manual doesn't mention anything about the cost of leaving it on.  the power consumption of a yggy is 35w -- again less than a light bulb.


----------



## artur9

I think we have to update our terminology re: light bulbs.  The efficient ones use less than 20w and sometimes as little as 4w.

Can we compare to VCRs that are also on all the time?  "My Gungnir MB uses the equivalent of 1/10th of a VCR if I leave it on all the time."


----------



## ruthieandjohn

My wall clock used to be on all the time.  I have however fallen prey to the energy conservation bug, so I unplug it except when I am looking at it.  Someone told me that it is right twice a day while it is stopped, and that that is more often correct per day than even the best atomic clock, which lags or leads the time, ever so tiny amount.


----------



## knivek

How much difference is there from the "A" Model in 2016-2017 to the versions now providing no upgrades have been done?  Will it still be a great DAC via S/PDIF in to balanced XLR out?


----------



## skyline315

knivek said:


> How much difference is there from the "A" Model in 2016-2017 to the versions now providing no upgrades have been done?  Will it still be a great DAC via S/PDIF in to balanced XLR out?


The A version was warmer.

The current version is a cooler sounding DAC.

It's still fantastic, but you need to keep that in mind when trying to match it to the rest of your system.


----------



## kumar402

knivek said:


> How much difference is there from the "A" Model in 2016-2017 to the versions now providing no upgrades have been done?  Will it still be a great DAC via S/PDIF in to balanced XLR out?


Well they say new version has black background, better layering and separation, however little brighter compared to older version. You don’t need to think too much about it as the newer one is technically competent and has all goodness of Multibit.


----------



## knivek

Only reason I am asking is I can either order a new Bifrost 2 or go with a used Gungnir circa 2016-2017. I like a warmer sound signature..  would be using S/PDIF


----------



## Wes S

I personally sought out the A1 version, as I like it warm, and euphonic.   To each their own, but I think it still is a killer dac.


----------



## knivek

Wes S said:


> I personally sought out the A1 version, as I like it warm, and euphonic.   To each their own, but I think it still is a killer dac.



This is not a multibit btw...


----------



## skyline315

knivek said:


> This is not a multibit btw...


The A1 was absolutely available in MB.


----------



## knivek

Well yes, but the particular model I am looking to purchase used is not Multibit.  That's why I am wondering if I should either just go with a Bifrost2 or with the A1 non MB.


----------



## Wes S (Sep 13, 2019)

knivek said:


> This is not a multibit btw...


Actually my A1 is, so disregard my comments, because I know nothing about the DS A1 Gungnir.


----------



## Wes S (Sep 13, 2019)

knivek said:


> Well yes, but the particular model I am looking to purchase used is not Multibit.  That's why I am wondering if I should either just go with a Bifrost2 or with the A1 non MB.


If it is a DS A1, I would go with the Bifrost 2 multibit, instead.  Even though I have not head either one of those 2, I much prefer a Multibit to DS dac, as many do.


----------



## kumar402

knivek said:


> Well yes, but the particular model I am looking to purchase used is not Multibit.  That's why I am wondering if I should either just go with a Bifrost2 or with the A1 non MB.


Well I like the dense tonality of Multibit along with soundstage. So I would say Bifrost2 is better buy in this case.


----------



## RCBinTN

Wes S said:


> If it is a DS A1, I would go with the Bifrost 2 multibit, instead.  Even though I have not head either one of those 2, I much prefer a Multibit to DS dac, as many do.


Agree with this comment 100%. I also think the best choice would be Bifrost 2 ... nearly as resolving as a Gungnir MB A2 and includes Unison. For $700, it's a bargain!
The Gungnir A2 has a more analog sound than the A1 so "warmer" to my ears.


----------



## TeeQ (Feb 21, 2020)

N/a


----------



## kumar402

TeeQ said:


> Well ... time to see where the Gumby sits in the stack.


You own all these Schiit?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

TeeQ said:


> Well ... time to see where the Gumby sits in the stack.


This image was USEFUL as it shows me the Gungnir to scale (compared to my VH2). Common sense tells me to purchase 3rd party, oversized silicone feet. *The screen on the Gungnir's top is **ornamental**, right? *[_will check with info@schiit.com next year before I purchase it... eventually]_).


----------



## RCBinTN

ScubaMan2017 said:


> This image was USEFUL as it shows me the Gungnir to scale (compared to my VH2). Common sense tells me to purchase 3rd party, oversized silicone feet. *The screen on the Gungnir's top is **ornamental**, right? *[_will check with info@schiit.com next year before I purchase it... eventually]_).


Yeah, it's ornamental. I stack my amp atop the Gumby when listening. No worries


----------



## jcn3

artur9 said:


> I think we have to update our terminology re: light bulbs.  The efficient ones use less than 20w and sometimes as little as 4w.
> 
> Can we compare to VCRs that are also on all the time?  "My Gungnir MB uses the equivalent of 1/10th of a VCR if I leave it on all the time."



fair enough, i should have inserted "incandescent".  bottom line is that a gungir or yggy don't consume much electricity when left on all of the time -- less than an incandescent lightbulb.


----------



## Tennessee

Can gumby be upgraded to A2?


----------



## Charente

Tennessee said:


> Can gumby be upgraded to A2?



SCHIIT didn't actually formally announce an A2 version ... it kinda happened as part and parcel of their product development (improvement)


----------



## Tennessee

Well that's bad.
I have new speakers and it's too warm sounding with them and you guys are saying A2 sounds cooler...


----------



## Charente

In any event, I'm personally waiting for their UNISON upgrade to GUNGNIR, which may involve updating the main board ... might be a while tho'


----------



## RCBinTN (Oct 1, 2019)

Gumby A2 sounds more analogue, not necessarily cooler but more realistic of the music. It's a tremendous DAC.
All the new Gumby DACs ship with the A2 analogue board.
I agree, Gumby will become better with Unison, but only for USB users.
Meanwhile, I have the Gen5 USB that is rock-solid (Macbook Pro is the source) with great SQ, beating optical for me


----------



## 565hunter

RCBinTN said:


> Gumby A2 sounds more analogue, not necessarily cooler but more realistic of the music. It's a tremendous DAC.
> All the new Gumby DACs ship with the A2 analogue board.
> I agree, Gumby will become better with Unison, but only for USB users.
> Meanwhile, I have the Gen5 USB that is rock-solid (Macbook Pro is the source) with great SQ, beating optical for me



I'm confused (easily done I admit). I thought the Gumby's slight revision change was due to the unavailability of a couple components that were not in the listening path. Not like the Yggy Analog2 upgrade. Can someone set me straight? My Gumby was purchased in January of 2017 and does not have a letter (A/B) associated with the serial number. How can I discern what revision it is?


----------



## kumar402

565hunter said:


> I'm confused (easily done I admit). I thought the Gumby's slight revision change was due to the unavailability of a couple components that were not in the listening path. Not like the Yggy Analog2 upgrade. Can someone set me straight? My Gumby was purchased in January of 2017 and does not have a letter (A/B) associated with the serial number. How can I discern what revision it is?


Gumby never had official revision. However with new components, listener experienced some change in sound signature and hence this revA2 came in pic. So it’s unoffcial revision. I guess if you check the back panel of your DAC, it will have serial number. If it starts with “A” then you have A1 else A2.
But again as far as schiit is concerned there is no A1and A2 for Gumby.


----------



## Ableza

ALso as far as Schiit is concerned there is no "Gumby."  There is however a Gungnir Multibit...


----------



## G0rt

kumar402 said:


> Gumby never had official revision. However with new components, listener experienced some change in sound signature and hence this revA2 came in pic. So it’s unoffcial revision. I guess if you check the back panel of your DAC, it will have serial number. If it starts with “A” then you have A1 else A2.
> But again as far as schiit is concerned there is no A1and A2 for Gumby.



Do we have even a coarse time hack for when this BOM change occurred? Just a curiosity, since my GMB (2016 rebuild, B prefix SN) elicits no complaints at all.

Hearsay has it that GMB and Yggdrasil basically swapped signatures, warmer to cooler in the case of the running change to GMB, cooler to warmer WRT Yggdrasil A1 to A2.

I wouldn't know, and might not even perceive the differences.


----------



## grokit (Oct 3, 2019)

I've got an A1 and am in a holding patter as far as upgrading it or what. Because of the differences, I'm leaning toward not upgrading the unit I have; perhaps I will re-purpose it with an old receiver, or sell it. Then to either get a new Gungnir A2 Multibit, or move up to a Yggdrasil or even something else. I have to say that I'm not a fan of unofficial upgrades that you can't upgrade to, in a supposedly upgradable component. It's a dilemma I didn't expect to have when I bought my Gungnir.


----------



## rkw

grokit said:


> I've got an A1 and am in a holding patter as far as upgrading it or what. Because of the differences, I'm leaning toward not upgrading the unit I have; perhaps I will re-purpose it with an old receiver, or sell it. Then to either get a new Gungnir A2 Multibit, or move up to a Yggdrasil or even something else. I have to say that I'm not a fan of unofficial upgrades that you can't upgrade to, in a supposedly upgradable component. It's a dilemma I didn't expect to have when I bought my Gungnir.


A2 shouldn't be considered an "upgrade", more of an update (possibly for production/manufacturing reasons). There are photos comparing the A1/A2 circuit boards and they are nearly identical and clearly not a redesign as Yggdrasil received. Some on the other forum prefer the sound of the A1 version and sought it out when purchasing (used). The bottom line is, are you dissatisfied with the sound of your current Gungnir?


----------



## Ableza

There is no Gungnir A2 upgrade.  The only available upgrades for Gungnir are multibit if you own a delta-sigma version, and the Gen 5 USB input card.


----------



## grokit

rkw said:


> A2 shouldn't be considered an "upgrade", more of an update (possibly for production/manufacturing reasons). There are photos comparing the A1/A2 circuit boards and they are nearly identical and clearly not a redesign as Yggdrasil received. Some on the other forum prefer the sound of the A1 version and sought it out when purchasing (used). The bottom line is, are you dissatisfied with the sound of your current Gungnir?


No, I've always liked the sound of my Gungnir. As an early adopter I remember when it was discussed as hitting way above its weight. But the world of DACs has moved on since then, and in my particular system it's the sources that have the most room for improvement. The one seeming consensus on this thread and others that have to do with Schiit's DACs is that the Multibit upgrade is totally worth it across the board. Unfortunately I don't have the benefit of trying an A1, or A2 Gumby or either Yggdrasil before I buy or upgrade. I am starting to travel a bit, but it's for medical reasons and I'm not up to a meet yet. I'll probably end up with a Yggdrasil.


----------



## kumar402

grokit said:


> No, I've always liked the sound of my Gungnir. As an early adopter I remember when it was discussed as hitting way above its weight. But the world of DACs has moved on since then, and in my particular system it's the sources that have the most room for improvement. The one seeming consensus on this thread and others that have to do with Schiit's DACs is that the Multibit upgrade is totally worth it across the board. Unfortunately I don't have the benefit of trying an A1, or A2 Gumby or either Yggdrasil before I buy or upgrade. I am starting to travel a bit, but it's for medical reasons and I'm not up to a meet yet. I'll probably end up with a Yggdrasil.


I would say that if you have assembled your system around A1then don’t fret. I’m quite sure that you are not missing out on anything.In used market there are many who look out for A1


----------



## grokit

kumar402 said:


> I would say that if you have assembled your system around A1then don’t fret. I’m quite sure that you are not missing out on anything.In used market there are many who look out for A1


Thanks. I guess I have the upgrade bug. It certainly sounds like it's worth upgrading the unit I have to MB. I'm in no hurry, but if I'm going to do it it should probably be done in the near future.


----------



## RCBinTN

grokit said:


> It certainly sounds like it's worth upgrading the unit I have to MB.


I upgraded my Gungnir D/S to the MB technology. It was a game-changer for the SQ of my rig. Highly recommended.
And, if you use USB, the Gen5 is much better than the old (Gen2?) USB. Better SQ and stability.
But ... Unison is coming


----------



## Wes S

kumar402 said:


> I would say that if you have assembled your system around A1then don’t fret. I’m quite sure that you are not missing out on anything.In used market there are many who look out for A1


Like me.


----------



## artur9

grokit said:


> Thanks. I guess I have the upgrade bug. It certainly sounds like it's worth upgrading the unit I have to MB. I'm in no hurry, but if I'm going to do it it should probably be done in the near future.



Definitely MB when you can.  Versus the DS Bifrost I have there's definitely a more realistic presentation via MB.

The other place to look to upgrade is amps.  I've found that amps can lose some details from the source making things sound more artificial.  In a way like a poorly encoded MP3 versus CD.


----------



## grokit

RCBinTN said:


> Unison is coming


_"Bifrost 2 introduces our all-new Unison USB, our own USB input based on a general-purpose PIC32 microprocessor, using precision local clocks and complete electromagnetic and electrostatic isolation. No more off-the-shelf USB for us—this unique, UAC2-compliant input provides the highest performance and lowest power draw of any USB input we’ve offered to date."
_
I sounds like it will be worth the wait. Any news on when this might be available for Gungnir?_

_


artur9 said:


> The other place to look to upgrade is amps.  I've found that amps can lose some details from the source making things sound more artificial.


I agree, but I feel like I have the amps covered for now. Except for a speaker amp I have my eye on


----------



## artur9

grokit said:


> I agree, but I feel like I have the amps covered for now. Except for a speaker amp I have my eye on



Do tell!  I have upgraded Odyssey monos and a Vidar for subwoofers.  Aegir monos would be an interesting up/side-grade but then I'd have to sell the Odysseys but I'm not up for that.  I have a bunch of stuff slated for eBay but no motivation...


----------



## grokit (Oct 4, 2019)

artur9 said:


> Do tell!  I have upgraded Odyssey monos and a Vidar for subwoofers.  Aegir monos would be an interesting up/side-grade but then I'd have to sell the Odysseys but I'm not up for that.  I have a bunch of stuff slated for eBay but no motivation...


I know the feeling. I'm not going for anything that esoteric, but this little guy would be a perfect upgrade for the Alesis that is powering my vintage (1940's/50's) Lansing (of Altec and JBL) speakers.
https://www.safeandsoundhq.com/products/parasound-halo-a23-2-channel-power-amplifier 

_edit:_ never mind, just read purr1n's review and evidently that amp would be a terrible choice.
Now looking at the Ragnarok II, then I would also have the option to drive more demanding dynamic cans than my WA22 can satisfy.

Here's one of the speakers. They're not quite Klipschorns but they're massive, and quite efficient.





It cost me around a grand just to transport them from CA to AK, but in addition to sounding great (no subwoofers required!), they have major sentimental value to me.


----------



## rkw

grokit said:


> Any news on when this might be available for Gungnir?


January. Gungnir will require being sent back to Schiit for firmware update. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-3314#post-15152638


----------



## artur9

grokit said:


> I know the feeling. I'm not going for anything that esoteric, but this little guy would be a perfect upgrade for the Alesis that is powering my vintage (1940's/50's) Lansing (of Altec and JBL) speakers.
> https://www.safeandsoundhq.com/products/parasound-halo-a23-2-channel-power-amplifier


Parasound have a lot of virtues but it's not my favorite sounding amp.  I have the original A52.


----------



## grokit

artur9 said:


> Parasound have a lot of virtues but it's not my favorite sounding amp.  I have the original A52.


Yes I edited my post after I came across an honest review, glad safe&sound doesn't ship to my location


----------



## artur9

grokit said:


> Yes I edited my post after I came across an honest review, glad safe&sound doesn't ship to my location


One of my favorite amps was a Belles.  I sold it for a coupla reasons chief being that, in my old house, the only way to get rid of a hum was to use balance cables throughout.

Used prices aren't too bad.  Very warm sound.  Even my casual-listener wife noticed how different and pleasing it sounded.


----------



## grokit (Oct 5, 2019)

artur9 said:


> One of my favorite amps was a Belles.  I sold it for a coupla reasons chief being that, in my old house, the only way to get rid of a hum was to use balance cables throughout.
> 
> Used prices aren't too bad.  Very warm sound.  Even my casual-listener wife noticed how different and pleasing it sounded.


I need balanced in my system as well, all I can access is the XLR pass-through from my Liquid Lightning. I thought hard about a Rag2, it would've been nice to have the additional high-powered dynamic headamp, but in the end all I wanted was a speaker amp not even a volume control. Schiit's shipping rate is also pretty rough to my location for that item. I like the looks of the Marantz MM7025, but finally I fell for the specs and reputation (hopefully deserved) of the NAD C268. It hits my sweet spot power-wise, and has some nice features on the back as far as trim & trigger level controls. Plus free shipping from Crutchfield, and a 2-year warranty.


----------



## artur9

grokit said:


> I need balanced in my system as well, all I can access is the XLR pass-through from my Liquid Lightning. ...



Nice, NAD makes some good stuff.   I've been trying hard to justify some Ayre electronics for myself but haven't quite yet


----------



## Arnold Schwartz (Oct 30, 2019)

G0rt said:


> Do we have even a coarse time hack for when this BOM change occurred? Just a curiosity, since my GMB (2016 rebuild, B prefix SN) elicits no complaints at all.



Yes, sometime around September 2017.



kumar402 said:


> Gumby never had official revision. However with new components, listener experienced some change in sound signature and hence this revA2 came in pic. So it’s unoffcial revision. I guess if you check the back panel of your DAC, it will have serial number. If it starts with “A” then you have A1 else A2.
> But again as far as schiit is concerned there is no A1and A2 for Gumby.



Not entirely accurate. I purchased a Gumby in Sept 2017 new directly from Schiit and it's NOT a B-serial, (actually starts with 0) but it does have the A2 board. When I heard about the A2 revision in 2018 I decided to open it up and sure enough it's A2. Other members have already mentioned in this thread if you go back to 2018 when people began to notice the revision; some units purchased around fall/winter of 2017 came with A2 boards and do not have a B-serial. The only way to know for sure is to open and check.


----------



## Pier Paolo

The rca spdif input led of my 5 years old Gumby stops working.
All others input leds work but they are more intense.
The other led work fine.
I have changed the led but I find out that the checked new led does not light and that the old one work fine when tested.
So I really can not understand what it is happened. Maybe the input chip!
The dac works perfectly also without the led enlightened.


----------



## Anouk

Hi, I am assembling a new rig in january but am hesistating what dac to get. I was thinking about the bifrost 2 but then I also saw the gungnir. I would wait for the unison upgrade. I cant test them beforehand. Would the gungnir with unison be a better choice then the bifrost 2?
Thanks in advance for any info,
Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## QueYo

Anouk said:


> Hi, I am assembling a new rig in january but am hesistating what dac to get. I was thinking about the bifrost 2 but then I also saw the gungnir. I would wait for the unison upgrade. I cant test them beforehand. Would the gungnir with unison be a better choice then the bifrost 2?
> Thanks in advance for any info,
> Greetings, Anouk,


I'm in the same boat.  Saying what would be a better choice for you would always be difficult, but since you are comparing one device you haven't heard with another that doesn't exist commercially yet, it's pretty hopeless.

Jason Stoddard has said on another thread that he prefers Bifrost 2 over the other currently available DACs.  It is a different topology, and is the only one with Unison USB.  I have read other comparisons on the internet (so it's true!) of listeners preferring the new Bifrost to Gungnir.  We have been told that Unison will be offered for the two more expensive DACs, but we don't know if there will be other changes.  I have always thought that Schiit's higher priced offerings have had tangible justifications for the higher prices, so I'm really interested to see what they will do with the Gungnir in particular.  If I had to choose a DAC today it would be the Bifrost, but I'm going to hold off for a bit.  Fortunately, I am close enough to the Schiitr that I should be able to compare before buying.


----------



## Paladin79

I own a Bifrost 2 and a fairly new Gungnir and I prefer the Gungnir to the Yggdrasil but I have a hard time saying I like the Bifrost better than the Gungnir. It is very different sounding, and I like it more with some music and the Gungnir more with other songs. I am using the Bifrost with a Lyr 3 and the Gungnir with the Mjolnir so I need to A/B them more with the same amps to do a more serious comparison.


----------



## Dr.J

Hello everyone,

I searched this thread and nothing came up for Still Points! So, I thought I’d share: I put a set of my Still Points under my Gungnir with little expectation. I’m happy to report that the effect was rather remarkable, the images came into sharp focus and the overall presentation became both more liquid and dynamic! These dacs definitely benefit from decoupling and resonance control! Give it a try, you won’t be disappointed!


----------



## artur9

Dr.J said:


> ... So, I thought I’d share: I put a set of my Still Points under my Gungnir ...


What was the Gungnir resting on before the Still Points?  The floor, a shelf?  Bedrock ?


----------



## Dr.J

My Gungnir was resting on a hard maple shelf prior to the use of my Still Points.


----------



## Chidi

Hi, has anyone compared the new Gungnir Multibit with the Unison board to the previous gen 5? If yes, could you give impressions?


----------



## Wes S

Chidi said:


> Hi, has anyone compared the new Gungnir Multibit with the Unison board to the previous gen 5? If yes, could you give impressions?


The million dollar question.


----------



## Chidi

Wes S said:


> The million dollar question.


I just realized it’s only been out a day or two. Now it makes sense why no one is talking about it lol.


----------



## Arnold Schwartz

Virtually no one will ever be able to do a proper comparison unless they have two Gumby's side by side with a Gen 5 and Unison usb already warmed up. This requires you to send your unit in for a firmware upgrade, by the time you get your unit back you will have long forgotten the nuances in the music and our memory of sounds fades almost as fast as notes decay. I bet the reviews will sound like this. "Wow, blacker background and more transparent with better air. It's like the notes appear and disappear from nowhere. blah blah blah." Basically don't get your hopes up to high, Gen 5 is already great and this is USB after-all not a new dac.


----------



## Dana Reed

Arnold Schwartz said:


> Virtually no one will ever be able to do a proper comparison unless they have two Gumby's side by side with a Gen 5 and Unison usb already warmed up. This requires you to send your unit in for a firmware upgrade, by the time you get your unit back you will have long forgotten the nuances in the music and our memory of sounds fades almost as fast as notes decay. I bet the reviews will sound like this. "Wow, blacker background and more transparent with better air. It's like the notes appear and disappear from nowhere. blah blah blah." Basically don't get your hopes up to high, Gen 5 is already great and this is USB after-all not a new dac.


When I send mine in, I’ll still have an Eitr, so I can compare gen 5->spdif to unison in A/B


----------



## vyushenko

Chidi said:


> Hi, has anyone compared the new Gungnir Multibit with the Unison board to the previous gen 5? If yes, could you give impressions?


I compared Bitfrost 2 with Unison vs Gungnir without Unison. To me Gungnir had an advantage (but small). I realized that I hate the sound of delta-sigma DACs (previously compared Modi vs ADI and with a lot of difficulty picked Modi which I had for a year), build-in multi-bit DAC is ok, Bitfrost 2 is really good and Gungnir is even better.

Yesterday, I got new Gungnir with Unison. 

I wanted to wait for Unison - because why not? But my assumption was that Unison does not really matter (at least when I feed USB from iPhone) since Gungnir without Unison to me sounded better than Bitfrost 2 with Unison. But that just me, highly subjective personal opinion and extrapolation since I was comparing Bitfrost 2 vs  Gungnir.


----------



## robrob

The Gungnir multi-bit upgrade is pretty popular. I'm currently # 3 of 37 in the que for upgrade. I did the Gen 5 USB upgrade last year so I'm not doing the Unison USB.


----------



## Brubacca

My Gumby (A1) is back at the mothership for the upgrade. I skipped Gen 5 and waited for Unison. 

Has anyone actually gotten their Gumby Unison back from the upgrade yet?


----------



## Wes S

Brubacca said:


> My Gumby (A1) is back at the mothership for the upgrade. I skipped Gen 5 and waited for Unison.
> 
> Has anyone actually gotten their Gumby Unison back from the upgrade yet?


Nice!  I still have an OG Gumby(A1) with an Eitr, and plan to do the Unison.  I am looking forward to getting rid of my Eitr (Gen 5).  I can't wait to hear your impressions, once you get yours back.


----------



## Brubacca

Wes S said:


> Nice!  I still have an OG Gumby(A1) with an Eitr, and plan to do the Unison.  I am looking forward to getting rid of my Eitr (Gen 5).  I can't wait to hear your impressions, once you get yours back.


I've been using Eitr for awhile as well. It will be interesting to compare.


----------



## Wes S

Brubacca said:


> I've been using Eitr for awhile as well. It will be interesting to compare.


Please keep me posted on your findings.  Thanks!


----------



## Dana Reed

Wes S said:


> Please keep me posted on your findings.  Thanks!


Also interested in this, and how long the turnaround is.
My Gen 5 input stopped working a while ago so I’ve been using Eitr.  I figured rather than doing a warranty repair on the gen5, I’d just wait and upgrade


----------



## Brubacca

My Schiit is shipping back today. Should have it early next week.  So next weekend (not this weekend) I'll be able to listen.


----------



## cobrabucket (Feb 21, 2020)

I just got one of these [A2, Gen5 usb] and am really impressed! Coming from an RME ADI-2 Pro. Both are awesome, but the Gumby just feels...fuller. Not sure if that makes sense, but that's my initial impressions after letting it warm up for 2 hours and about an hour of listening. I also have an Eitr otw. Think that the Eitr would sound better than just Gen5 usb alone? Obviously thinking about unison too.


----------



## theveterans

cobrabucket said:


> I just got one of these [A2, Gen5 usb] and am really impressed! Coming from an RME ADI-2 Pro. Both are awesome, but the Gumby just feels...fuller. Not sure if that makes sense, but that's my initial impressions after letting it warm up for 2 hours and about an hour of listening. I also have an Eitr otw. Think that the Eitr would sound better than just Gen5 usb alone? Obviously thinking about unison too.



Skip Eitr, go with Unison. To my experience, Unison has better focus in instrument placement than coax


----------



## Charente

cobrabucket said:


> ... I also have an Eitr otw. Think that the Eitr would sound better than just Gen5 usb alone? Obviously thinking about unison too.



I've not got around to upgrading my Gungnir MB to Unison, but have spent some effort improving what an EITR fed system can produce. The 5v v-Bus (apparently) is not totally isolated in EITR and I (and others) have found that by isolating the USB v-Bus and injecting the 5v directly from a clean LPS noticeably improves overall SQ, including imaging. Since you have an EITR en-route, I thought it worth mentioning ... otherwise, Unison is probably the way to go from what I'm hearing. It's easier.


----------



## Brubacca

cobrabucket said:


> I just got one of these [A2, Gen5 usb] and am really impressed! Coming from an RME ADI-2 Pro. Both are awesome, but the Gumby just feels...fuller. Not sure if that makes sense, but that's my initial impressions after letting it warm up for 2 hours and about an hour of listening. I also have an Eitr otw. Think that the Eitr would sound better than just Gen5 usb alone? Obviously thinking about unison too.


I don't know, but Eitr was designed as an external Gen 5 USB. I find it hard to believe that it would sound better than just Gen 5 on the DAC. You are adding another device with power supply and an extra cable.


----------



## Brubacca

I have my Gungnir back from Schiit. It sounds really great direct to the Unison USB input.  I dare say the best my system has ever sounded.


----------



## Wes S

Brubacca said:


> I have my Gungnir back from Schiit. It sounds really great direct to the Unison USB input.  I dare say the best my system has ever sounded.


Awesome!  Looks like mine is going back to Schiit for the install.  I can't wait, to make my baby sound even better!  Thanks for the update.


----------



## robrob

Schiit's turnaround time for the Gungnir Multibit upgrade has been slow. I had to wait about 2 weeks in the que to ship my unit. They received it 14 Feb and I was notified today (24 Feb) that they are ready to ship it out.


----------



## Wes S (Feb 26, 2020)

robrob said:


> Schiit's turnaround time for the Gungnir Multibit upgrade has been slow. I had to wait about 2 weeks in the que to ship my unit. They received it 14 Feb and I was notified today (24 Feb) that they are ready to ship it out.


Thanks for that!  I was really interested how long it is currently taking.


----------



## bofh

Dive into the rabbit hole executed.  

ETA for arrival of Gumby with gen 5 USB is Monday. Also expecting arrival of Jotunheim  next week to complement Modi 2U / Magni 3 stack.  

Will be using them ( and shuffling around )  with an ancient Sony DVP-S7000 transport, iMacPro, U-Turn record player, into mixture of Paradigm speakers (Reference Studio 100, Active 40 ) with Parasound HCA-1500 and Denon 7200W for amplification.  I made my own cables from Canare/Neutrik components - being a ham radio, soldering iron never leaves my sight .  Music is mix of 70-80-90 rock, jazz, plenty of classical with forays into anything loud. Cans are of entry level type - Sony MDR 7506 ( which I love for sound and hate for getting my ears hot during long radio sessions on the air - even with velour skins ) and Grado.  

Skimmed/read parts of this thread. Thanks for lot of advice and interesting tidbits !


----------



## Wes S (Feb 29, 2020)

bofh said:


> Dive into the rabbit hole executed.
> 
> ETA for arrival of Gumby with gen 5 USB is Monday. Also expecting arrival of Jotunheim  next week to complement Modi 2U / Magni 3 stack.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the club!  The explosive impact, holographic soundstage, and forward vocals is addictive.  I freakin love my Gumby.


----------



## robrob (Mar 2, 2020)

I received my Gungnir back from Schiit today for the multibit upgrade. I already had the Gen 5 USB. I had to wait about two weeks in the upgrade que and Schiit received it on 14 February and I received it 2 March. Total with tax and shipping for the multibit upgrade was $580.

It's paired with a Mjolnir V2 (tube preamp) and Hifiman HE-500 cans. I'm shocked how much better it sounds. I know, it must be psychoacoustics at play but I really am hearing things I've never heard before in my favorite music. The detail is amazing and the low lows are more prominent. I'm hearing a lot more guitar pick noise and attack--that's freakin' cool.

I know $580 is a lot for an upgrade but it really appears to be worth it.


----------



## RCBinTN (Mar 2, 2020)

robrob said:


> I received my Gungnir back from Schiit today for the multibit upgrade. I already had the Gen 5 USB. I had to wait about two weeks in the upgrade que and Schiit received it on 14 February and I received it 2 March. Total with tax and shipping for the multibit upgrade was $580.
> 
> It's paired with a Mjolnir V2 (tube preamp) and Hifiman HE-500 cans. I'm shocked how much better it sounds. I know, it must be psychoacoustics at play but I really am hearing things I've never heard before in my favorite music. The detail is amazing and the low lows are more prominent. I'm hearing a lot more guitar pick noise and attack--that's freakin' cool.
> 
> I know $580 is a lot for an upgrade but it really appears to be worth it.


The same thing happened with me. It was a game-changer for my rig. I still use the Gumby as my DAC ... the SQ is amazingly real.
Oh and BTW, I don't know if it's brain or DAC burn-in, but the sound will improve with time ... don't forget to leave it powered on at all times. Personally, I reset the DAC's power before each listening session, it seems to like that. Prosit!


----------



## bagwell359 (Apr 10, 2020)

I got my Gumby 1 in 2015.  I bought the USB-5 board about 2018, but since I was 100% CD input, I never put it in, then 2 months ago I got a used LG v40 and got into the high res portion of Tidal.  Too bad I one cannot get Hi Res with the Toneboosters EQ and Balance switch together.  Either way, the Gumby with the USB-5 is doing a great job.

Not interested in any other DAC solution at this time, nor for the foreseeable future.

P.S. It's always liked to be on - I find after 4 days I don't hear any change.  The only time it comes out is for very strong electrical storms.

I do plan on putting in a pair of bypass caps for the PS, and the output caps.  Due to space issues no crazy big Duelands, but some vishays will fit.  Surprised I have not done it yet.


----------



## 565hunter

I


bagwell359 said:


> I got my Gumby 1 in 2015.  I bought the USB-5 board about 2018, but since I was 100% CD input, I never put it in, then 2 months ago I got a used LG v40 and got into the high res portion of Tidal.  Too bad I one cannot get Hi Res with the Toneboosters EQ and Balance switch together.  Either way, the Gumby with the USB-5 is doing a great job.
> 
> Not interested in any other DAC solution at this time, nor for the foreseeable future.
> 
> ...


I'm very interested in your upgrade plans. Make sure you photo document it and provide us with listening results!!


----------



## bagwell359

565hunter said:


> I
> 
> I'm very interested in your upgrade plans. Make sure you photo document it and provide us with listening results!!



Yeah.  I was a total dunce for not doing it when I had it opened up for the Gen5 - BTW the directions at the other site were spot on if anyone wants guidance on doing it.  

Dunce move #2: Not getting the cap values when I did have it open, meaning it gets opened twice, or I go on vacation waiting for the parts to come in - which is unlikely in the near term.  My mistakes = your wisdom!  Anyone happen to know the values?

One tip:  once all screwed back together don't clean off fingerprints around the leds, they push in rather easily, and you'll find yourself using your smallest tweezers with little felt pieces glued on (afraid the direct metal contact might injure them) just for this job to grab the leds and pull them out.  Good news is that you don't have to be hyper anal getting all the leds back into the holes and pushed up all the way before screwing shut, since if one or two of them are not 100% out, you can make them that way as long as your leds are at least 50-60% of the way out to the max position.


----------



## Malevolent

Hi guys, I am about to pull the trigger on a Gungnir Multibit. However, has anyone heard any rumors of a Gungnir 2 coming out anytime soon? I don't want to be spending $1,300, only to find out that a revised model will be out in a few months.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Dana Reed

Malevolent said:


> Hi guys, I am about to pull the trigger on a Gungnir Multibit. However, has anyone heard any rumors of a Gungnir 2 coming out anytime soon? I don't want to be spending $1,300, only to find out that a revised model will be out in a few months.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


No rumors, but my Gungnir multibit does sound awesome playing Fleetwood Mac,
If you're hesitant, pick up a Bifrost 2.  It's already on the newest platform, and has a remote if that's a consideration.  For the Gungnir v1 platform, that's likely the only upgrade of any significance that would be difficult to do on the same chassis.  Myself, I'm glad I have a Gungnir with Gen5, and picked up a used Mjolnir 1 to pair with it.  I may upgrade to unison at some point, and expect there still may be some additional analog section upgrades to this platform in the future.


----------



## bagwell359

It's believed that v2 of the Gungnir came out in 2019, as a silent modification.  Then there was a lot of conversation in the Schiit thread - which I can't remember, go check it out.


----------



## Sonic Defender

bagwell359 said:


> I got my Gumby 1 in 2015.  I bought the USB-5 board about 2018, but since I was 100% CD input, I never put it in, then 2 months ago I got a used LG v40 and got into the high res portion of Tidal.  Too bad I one cannot get Hi Res with the Toneboosters EQ and Balance switch together.  Either way, the Gumby with the USB-5 is doing a great job.
> 
> Not interested in any other DAC solution at this time, nor for the foreseeable future.
> 
> ...


I remember the LEDs being a pain way back when I changed my USB to I think Gen 2 at the time!


----------



## Malevolent

bagwell359 said:


> It's believed that v2 of the Gungnir came out in 2019, as a silent modification.  Then there was a lot of conversation in the Schiit thread - which I can't remember, go check it out.


I've briefly read about Gumbys with a "B" prefix for its serial numbers. Is this what you were talking about? In any case, I will have an in-depth read this weekend. We're all quarantined after all, and I don't really have anything else to do to pass the time. Ha.

Thanks!



Dana Reed said:


> No rumors, but my Gungnir multibit does sound awesome playing Fleetwood Mac,
> If you're hesitant, pick up a Bifrost 2.  It's already on the newest platform, and has a remote if that's a consideration.  For the Gungnir v1 platform, that's likely the only upgrade of any significance that would be difficult to do on the same chassis.  Myself, I'm glad I have a Gungnir with Gen5, and picked up a used Mjolnir 1 to pair with it.  I may upgrade to unison at some point, and expect there still may be some additional analog section upgrades to this platform in the future.


The Bifrost was briefly considered; I then went up the chain to the Gumby and the Yggdrasil. The latter is way beyond what I can comfortably spend at the moment, so I've whittled my choices down to the Bifrost and the Gungnir. Will be doing more reading this weekend, I suppose. Thanks for the help!


----------



## scottcw

Malevolent said:


> The Bifrost was briefly considered; I then went up the chain to the Gumby and the Yggdrasil. The latter is way beyond what I can comfortably spend at the moment, so I've whittled my choices down to the Bifrost and the Gungnir. Will be doing more reading this weekend, I suppose. Thanks for the help!



There is a lot of info on another forum comparing the Bifrost 2 to the current Gungnir and Yggy.

Tl;dr - I have a Bifrost 2 coming on Monday.


----------



## bagwell359

Malevolent said:


> I've briefly read about Gumbys with a "B" prefix for its serial numbers. Is this what you were talking about? In any case, I will have an in-depth read this weekend. We're all quarantined after all, and I don't really have anything else to do to pass the time. Ha.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ...



Yup "a" vs "b".  Most think "b" is better.  I missed my shot at hearing one, and being busy buying expensive stuff for my Bottlehead Crack project, have no money to pursue one anyhow.  Good luck, if "b" is the most advanced version for now, I'd go ahead - in particular if it was used.


----------



## MtRainierJohn

scottcw said:


> There is a lot of info on another forum comparing the Bifrost 2 to the current Gungnir and Yggy.
> 
> Tl;dr - I have a Bifrost 2 coming on Monday.



Can you please provide a link or other reference to conversation?  I'd be really interested in following it.  thanks.


----------



## scottcw

I'd get in trouble for mentioning it here. Google is your friend.


----------



## MtRainierJohn (Apr 16, 2020)

scottcw said:


> I'd get in trouble for mentioning it here. Google is your friend.


Can you give me a bit of a clue (unique keyword) that would make the search easier?  Searching for "Bifrost 2 Gungnir Yggy" (or variations on it) is a bit like searching for a needle in a haystack.  I have a masters degree in library and information science and have some pretty good search skills, but not *that* magical!


----------



## Dana Reed

scottcw said:


> I'd get in trouble for mentioning it here. Google is your friend.


*S*everal *B*uddies *A*re *F*raternizing?


----------



## scottcw

MtRainierJohn said:


> Can you give me a bit of a clue (unique keyword) that would make the search easier?  Searching for "Bifrost 2 Gungnir Yggy" (or variations on it) is a bit like searching for a needle in a haystack.  I have a masters degree in library and information science and have some pretty good search skills, but not *that* magical!



Google is your _*super best*_ friend.


----------



## MtRainierJohn

Thanks, all!


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Hi guys,

perhaps a bit silly question, but how actually to differentiate gungnir DS and MB physically? 

Already tried to search here and there but still can't get answer


----------



## 565hunter

Units that have been upgraded will have a multibit label on it. 




 is a picture of my unit.


----------



## Malevolent

Anyway, I just wanted to say, I have a Schiit Gungnir Multibit incoming; I should be getting it sometime early next week. Along with the Gumby, I purchased the Mjolnir 2.

Can't wait to get my hands on them!


----------



## ThanatosVI

Malevolent said:


> Anyway, I just wanted to say, I have a Schiit Gungnir Multibit incoming; I should be getting it sometime early next week. Along with the Gumby, I purchased the Mjolnir 2.
> 
> Can't wait to get my hands on them!



I will order the same later this year.
So looking forward to it.

Real endgame combo.

Which headphones do you use?


----------



## Malevolent

I ordered the combo on Thursday, and it arrived at my doorstep today. That was pretty fast!

As this is meant to be a desktop source, they are taking quite a large chunk of space on them. Looks like I might have to get a bigger table, with monitor mounts to free up some real estate. They are also very heavy.

First impressions are good. The combo adds a touch of warmth and body to my music; I'm loving that nice midrange bloom.



ThanatosVI said:


> I will order the same later this year.
> So looking forward to it.
> 
> Real endgame combo.
> ...


I'm transitioning from a 90% portable setup to a home-based one, so I'm using mostly IEMs at the moment (such as the Solaris, Kaiser Encore, K10, FH5). For headphones, the Ultrasone PRO 900 and Denon D2000 are the cans I use the most. As I'm a huge fan of closed-back designs, I'm deciding between the TH900 Mk2, LCD-XC, and the LCD-2 Closed Back for my next purchase.


----------



## ct303

@565hunter - do you know if Schiit has been putting that multibit sticker on upgraded units from the beginning?  I had mine upgraded by them and it didn't come back with the sticker.  While I'm at it, are there other ways to identify which version I have?


----------



## 565hunter

ct303 said:


> @565hunter - do you know if Schiit has been putting that multibit sticker on upgraded units from the beginning?  I had mine upgraded by them and it didn't come back with the sticker.  While I'm at it, are there other ways to identify which version I have?


If you sent it in for an upgrade and didn't get the Multibit sticker I'm sure it was an oversight. Schiit is a very honorable company and would not take your money without doing the upgrade. If you really are suspect that the upgrade wasn't done you can verify by removing the cover and visually inspecting the boards inside.The Multibit board is a single board. The Delta-Sigma version uses 2 boards side by side. If you go to their website both versions are pictured.


----------



## ThanatosVI

How does the Gumby compare to the Holo Audio Spring2 Level 1?


----------



## phandrew

I have a Gungnir Multibit and the speakers pops when i mute/unmute. Is this normal and if not, how do i fix this?


----------



## Don Quichotte

phandrew said:


> I have a Gungnir Multibit and the speakers pops when i mute/unmute. Is this normal and if not, how do i fix this?


DC offset on the outputs when music is playing? Wouldn't be the first case - see this: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-gungnir-dac.603219/page-307#post-13904290


----------



## phandrew

Don Quichotte said:


> DC offset on the outputs when music is playing? Wouldn't be the first case - see this: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-gungnir-dac.603219/page-307#post-13904290



So i've checked the voltage and they are pretty even. Odd part is the pop only occurs in the L speaker.


----------



## Don Quichotte

What do you mean by even, L and R are the same? How much? You need to check the DC voltage on the outputs while the music is playing, otherwise the relays are open and you won't measure anything...


----------



## phandrew

I did check it while music was playing and both were same voltage.


----------



## rkw

phandrew said:


> I did check it while music was playing and both were same voltage.


What exactly did you measure? To measure DC offset of a DAC output, ideally you'd measure while playing a track that is dead silence, and measure the voltage between + and ground on each channel. Ideally, both channels would measure zero volts during silence. Any difference from zero would be the DC offset. Music (sound) is an AC signal, and while music is playing you really can't measure DC offset with a simple meter.


----------



## Don Quichotte

rkw said:


> What exactly did you measure? To measure DC offset of a DAC output, ideally you'd measure while playing a track that is dead silence, and measure the voltage between + and ground on each channel. Ideally, both channels would measure zero volts during silence. Any difference from zero would be the DC offset. Music (sound) is an AC signal, and while music is playing you really can't measure DC offset with a simple meter.


Actually I succeeded measuring the DC offset with a simple voltmeter both while playing a silent track (obtained by inverting a waveform in a wave processor and mix-pasting it on top of the original one) and by playing actual music. In my case, the DC offset was huge though (4VDC).


----------



## SmashBruh

So, has anyone done the unison upgrade? Would you say it's worth it vs Gen V?


----------



## VintageAudio (Jul 6, 2020)

SmashBruh said:


> So, has anyone done the unison upgrade? Would you say it's worth it vs Gen V?


+1

Also interested in anyone that can compare Gungnir Multibit V2 Unison with Denafrips Ares II.  Been combing the web for info, saw one person preferred Gungnir to ADI-2 and saw another prefer Ares II to Gungir MB.

Still on a quest to find a a desktop sized DAC that can provide euphoric sound with my Topping A90 pre-amp + Bakoon Amp-13R + Hifiman Susvara.


----------



## rkw

VintageAudio said:


> Still on a quest to find a a desktop sized Mac that can provide euphoric sound with my Topping A90 pre-amp + Bakoon Amp-13R + Hifiman Susvara.


What exactly are your requirements for the Mac? I don't see why any model of Mac would make a difference for USB audio output.


----------



## VintageAudio

rkw said:


> What exactly are your requirements for the Mac? I don't see why any model of Mac would make a difference for USB audio output.


Sorry should read DAC not  MAC. lol.


----------



## StimpyWan

I wish Schiit would develop cross-platform capable DAC cards!  D/S and MD both.  As such, the same cards would work in a Bifrost or a Gungnir.  One card in the Bifrost and 2 cards for a Gungnir.  Keep costs reasonable, that way.  I could then upgrade my Gungnir with a set of 4490 DAC cards, or even better, 4493 cards.  I like the D/S sound signature, and would find this more appealing than the MB upgrade.

Speaking of which, I wonder if 2 Bifrost 4490 upgrade cards, would work in my Gungnir...???  Same designer, and similar architecture and pin out connections.  I've really been wondering if it would work?


----------



## cobrabucket (Aug 20, 2020)

If I don't have Unison installed, is there a difference/preference for Optical or USB gen5?+
EDIT: I have a Gumby [A2]


----------



## MtRainierJohn

I have the USB Gen 5  Bifrost.  I've tried going direct USB into the Bifrost, going USB into a Wyrd and then USB into the Bifrost, and going USB into a Eitr and then digital coax into the Bifrost.  Of the three, the Wyrd into Bifrost gave me the best sound.


----------



## hodgjy (Aug 21, 2020)

cobrabucket said:


> If I don't have Unison installed, is there a difference/preference for Optical or USB gen5?+
> EDIT: I have a Gumby [A2]



I have A1, so ymmv. I can't tell much of a difference between optical, coax, or usb. I'd probably fail a blind test. I use optical because the owner's manual of my source says that's their preferred output. I set it and forget it.

Edit: I meant to say A1. Not sure how/why I typed A2.


----------



## cobrabucket (Aug 20, 2020)

Thanks for the answers. I have been using USB since I got the Gumby and all my other DACs have used USB. Yesterday, I tried each and thought they both sounded good. Optical is said to have more jitter than the other inputs. "Adapticlock" is supposed to handle that aspect, but optical also supposedly has a 13db higher noise floor, so less dynamic range, maybe? Still, it was crystal clear without and weirdness or glitches [see below]. I switched back to USB5, and it sounded basically the same. Maybe slightly "blacker." Only reason I ask is that sometimes when multi-tasking [web browsing, downloading Steam updates, playing DSD, etc] it would occasionally have intermittent glitches [sound pauses and stutters] if I was using USB, usually when playing DSD or 24/192 FLAC. It doesn't happen all the time, though - or even under the same conditions or with any observable schedule. But this does NOT occur if I am using optical inputs. Nevertheless, not wanting to spend the big bucks for reclockers and $500 usb converter or streamer, I bought an isolated USB card for dedicated audio use [around $40] that I could install as well. I think this should be done regardless of whether I do the Unison upgrade or not, but am considering if I should just bite the bullet and send it in for Unison. Pretty much everyone says it was the best that their DAC sounded. A few folks said they couldn't hear a difference, though. My PC is a Jack-Of-All-Trades kind, where it is used everyday in some capacity: browsing, movie watching, music listening, gaming, recording music and some occasional video editting. I use Win10, Foobar2K and have the buffer set high enough to not be an issue. My CPU is a R7 3700X, so I should have plenty of CPU overhead. Last info, I use Gumby for all PCM files, RME ADI-2 Pro [via USB] for DSD files (or occasionally Gumby converting DSD to PCM, which was tested yesterday). Sorry for the short novel...


----------



## MtRainierJohn

cobrabucket said:


> Thanks for the answers. I have been using USB since I got the Gumby and all my other DACs have used USB. Yesterday, I tried each and thought they both sounded good. Optical is said to have more jitter than the other inputs. "Adapticlock" is supposed to handle that aspect, but optical also supposedly has a 13db higher noise floor, so less dynamic range, maybe? Still, it was crystal clear without and weirdness or glitches [see below]. I switched back to USB5, and it sounded basically the same. Maybe slightly "blacker." Only reason I ask is that sometimes when multi-tasking [web browsing, downloading Steam updates, playing DSD, etc] it would occasionally have intermittent glitches [sound pauses and stutters] if I was using USB, usually when playing DSD or 24/192 FLAC. It doesn't happen all the time, though - or even under the same conditions or with any observable schedule. But this does NOT occur if I am using optical inputs. Nevertheless, not wanting to spend the big bucks for reclockers and $500 usb converter or streamer, I bought an isolated USB card for dedicated audio use [around $40] that I could install as well. I think this should be done regardless of whether I do the Unison upgrade or not, but am considering if I should just bite the bullet and send it in for Unison. Pretty much everyone says it was the best that their DAC sounded. A few folks said they couldn't hear a difference, though. My PC is a Jack-Of-All-Trades kind, where it is used everyday in some capacity: browsing, movie watching, music listening, gaming, recording music and some occasional video editting. I use Win10, Foobar2K and have the buffer set high enough to not be an issue. My CPU is a R7 3700X, so I should have plenty of CPU overhead. Last info, I use Gumby for all PCM files, RME ADI-2 Pro [via USB] for DSD files (or occasionally Gumby converting DSD to PCM, which was tested yesterday). Sorry for the short novel...



If you come across a Wyrd for cheap enough, I'd suggest trying it.  I found mine for $20 bucks, which is why I gave it a shot.  Much to my surprise, it was a $20 bucks very well spent.


----------



## SmashBruh

Well, curiosity got the best of me and I sprung for the unison upgrade. I don't expect to hear much of a difference (I thought my gumby sounded great with gen 5); but I will be sure to report back!


----------



## jesusfr3ak4evr

Took delivery today of two pieces of Schiit that I bought from the FS/Trade forum. How do I determine if the Gungnir is version A1/2 and USB gen 2/3/4/5? The Multibit sticker gave away that part--probably the most important detail  









See original Gungnir/Mjolnir2 Photos on Dropbox.


----------



## Arnold Schwartz

jesusfr3ak4evr said:


> Took delivery today of two pieces of Schiit that I bought from the FS/Trade forum. How do I determine if the Gungnir is version A1/2 and USB gen 2/3/4/5? The Multibit sticker gave away that part--probably the most important detail
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Search this thread, but I think the majority of Gumby A2 are identified with a B serial number.  But don’t lose hope yet! There are some in the wild like mine that also are A2 with a 0 serial number. I confirmed mine by opening it up and checking the board version number. They did the silent upgrade to A2 sometime in the late summer or fall of ‘17 - my guess is that it took a while before anyone clued in and noticed, the B serial was an easy tip-off.


----------



## EELawson

jesusfr3ak4evr said:


> Took delivery today of two pieces of Schiit that I bought from the FS/Trade forum. How do I determine if the Gungnir is version A1/2 and USB gen 2/3/4/5? The Multibit sticker gave away that part--probably the most important detail
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There are EITR's on the Schiit site for just $89.  That might be a good option for you.  Or send it in and pay $200 to get a Unison card installed.

I think you have a Gen2, A-1 Gungnir MB DAC.  It's like mine, just a few months older. I bought mine in early 2016.

My serial number is SH-06 and 06003672.

I am not keen on shipping my unit to Schiit for a Unison install.  The EITR box works great.

I have the Moljnir2 as well.  

You are going to love these two!


----------



## SmashBruh

I got my Gumby back a couple of weeks ago! Unison sounds amazing! That said, it's hard to say if it's actually an improvement as I had been listening to a Modi 3 for the two weeks it took to get back. Without A/Bing and having fresh auditory memory it's hard to really say what my perceived improvement stems from- the upgrade or my favorite DAC resuming it's rightful place in my chain?

That said, if I did have to quantify what I perceive as different-
-Plankton is increased. Before the images were ever so slightly fuzzy but now they're rock solid- spookily so. I feel like I've been discovering so many new things in Music I already thought I knew well! Little whispers or noises will sometimes sound like they're being whispered from some corner of my room when using my VO or VC. It's always such a shock and I'm always amazed to find it was just a new detail of my music that has revealed itself!
-Going off of that- the background definitely sounds darker. If this makes any sense- before when sound would be reproduced it would leave remnants of it's "color" that bled into the next note- now it vanishes extremely quickly into inky black. Everything is feels so much more refined and yet musical!

Overall I'm very happy with my upgrade!


----------



## jesusfr3ak4evr

SmashBruh said:


> I got my Gumby back a couple of weeks ago! Unison sounds amazing! That said, it's hard to say if it's actually an improvement as I had been listening to a Modi 3 for the two weeks it took to get back. Without A/Bing and having fresh auditory memory it's hard to really say what my perceived improvement stems from- the upgrade or my favorite DAC resuming it's rightful place in my chain?
> 
> That said, if I did have to quantify what I perceive as different-
> -Plankton is increased. Before the images were ever so slightly fuzzy but now they're rock solid- spookily so. I feel like I've been discovering so many new things in Music I already thought I knew well! Little whispers or noises will sometimes sound like they're being whispered from some corner of my room when using my VO or VC. It's always such a shock and I'm always amazed to find it was just a new detail of my music that has revealed itself!
> ...


 Is Unison only an upgrade to the USB, or would it impact sound quality through SPDIF toslink?


----------



## kumar402

jesusfr3ak4evr said:


> Took delivery today of two pieces of Schiit that I bought from the FS/Trade forum. How do I determine if the Gungnir is version A1/2 and USB gen 2/3/4/5? The Multibit sticker gave away that part--probably the most important detail
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don’t worry or think about it. There is a separate fan base for A1 version.


----------



## kumar402

jesusfr3ak4evr said:


> Is Unison only an upgrade to the USB, or would it impact sound quality through SPDIF toslink?


unison will impact USB input only. 
I feel instead of spending money on a unison upgrade get a better streamer and use BNC input.


----------



## jesusfr3ak4evr

kumar402 said:


> unison will impact USB input only.
> I feel instead of spending money on a unison upgrade get a better streamer and use BNC input.


Which streamers offer BNC? Bluesound Node2i?


----------



## kumar402

jesusfr3ak4evr said:


> Which streamers offer BNC? Bluesound Node2i?


I’m using Digione Signature and Pi2AES. Both punch way above their price point.
In fact with Pi2AES you will get BNC, Coax, AES, I2S for some DAC.


----------



## Mtavares_12 (Sep 25, 2020)

kumar402 said:


> I’m using Digione Signature and Pi2AES. Both punch way above their price point.
> In fact with Pi2AES you will get BNC, Coax, AES, I2S for some DAC.



I am also using the Gumby A2 with the Pi2AES/BNC connection. In my setup there is an improvement over USB Gen 5 connection.


----------



## grokit (Sep 27, 2020)

Another BNC user here, I am using my A1 Gungnir with a Halide Design S/PDIF Bridge. My Gungnir still has USB Gen 1, so it's quite the upgrade. I'm thinking of going multibit soon, but not sure about the Unison upgrade. I have never found a use for the USB input, mainly because the Halide Bridge sounds so much better.


----------



## lexterminator

With all the upgrades that the Bifrost 2 went through are there  any sonic advantage of picking the latest Gungnir MB ? I'm considering buying either. This would be a complement of the Gustard A18 (AK4499) that I already use with my Violectric V200 amp and Beyerdynamic T1.1.


----------



## RCBinTN

I originally bought the Gungnir because it has fully hardware balanced design. I am still happy now after A2 and Gen5 USB upgrade. I have heard from a trusted source that the Bifrost 2 sounds "better" than the Gungnir, but I've not heard the Bifrost 2 myself. I believe the Unison USB is even better than Gen5 SQ. I also also like the modular design of Bifrost. I know, not a good answer but hope it may help a bit anyway


----------



## kumar402

RCBinTN said:


> I originally bought the Gungnir because it has fully hardware balanced design. I am still happy now after A2 and Gen5 USB upgrade. I have heard from a trusted source that the Bifrost 2 sounds "better" than the Gungnir, but I've not heard the Bifrost 2 myself. I believe the Unison USB is even better than Gen5 SQ. I also also like the modular design of Bifrost. I know, not a good answer but hope it may help a bit anyway


I wouldn’t say Bifrost 2 is better then Gungnir. If you have built your system around Gungnir then rest assured it’s very good DAC. Gungnir may need some careful matching of gears but once done it is one of the better DAC at its price range going around.


----------



## RCBinTN

I agree, that's why I have kept the Gungnir in my system. The sound is very realistic.


----------



## Sonic Defender

lexterminator said:


> With all the upgrades that the Bifrost 2 went through are there  any sonic advantage of picking the latest Gungnir MB ? I'm considering buying either. This would be a complement of the Gustard A18 (AK4499) that I already use with my Violectric V200 amp and Beyerdynamic T1.1.


You shouldn't hear any difference in the DACs unless either Schiit or Gustard intentionally coloured the analogue output stage which would be ridiculous.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Sonic Defender said:


> You shouldn't hear any difference in the DACs unless either Schiit or Gustard intentionally coloured the analogue output stage which would be ridiculous.


Why wouldn't he hear a difference between them?

I have 3 dacs here, all based on different Chips and Implementations, and all of them are easily to discern by sound


----------



## Sonic Defender (Nov 12, 2020)

ThanatosVI said:


> Why wouldn't he hear a difference between them?
> 
> I have 3 dacs here, all based on different Chips and Implementations, and all of them are easily to discern by sound


Not likely, you are doing sighted listening tests I am sure. Now saying that, some implementations are not very good. Essentially if you can hear a difference in DACs, with one or all of them something is wrong. A DAC should do NOTHING more than accurately convert digital signals into analogue output. This has been achieved with absolute audible transparency possible for a number of years and it can and is available for rather surprisingly small sums of money today in stand alone DACs. Not to mention, simply because you hear differences, ascribing to the theory that there are some topological reasons you hear differences (design decisions to colour the sound) you can't assume that this is true for anything other than your sample of three. Are they the same DACs as other poster was considering? If not your experience may not be applicable to their experience.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Sonic Defender said:


> Not likely, you are doing sighted listening tests I am sure. Now saying that, some implementations are not very good. Essentially if you can hear a difference in DACs, with one or all of them something is wrong. A DAC should do NOTHING more than accurately convert digital signals into analogue output. This has been achieved with absolute audible transparency possible for a number of years and it can and is available for rather surprisingly small sums of money today in stand alone DACs. Not to mention, simply because you hear differences, ascribing to the theory that there are some topological reasons you hear differences (design decisions to colour the sound) you can't assume that this is true for anything other than your sample of three. Are they the same DACs as other poster was considering? If not your experience may not be applicable to their experience.


Well I can clearly hear the difference, maybe others hear them less, but I have no reason to assume that others can't hear differences in DACs.

Therefore the question, why wouldn't he hear it?

Sure it is possible that some DACs sound so similar to each other that you can't hear differences, but I consider that to be the exception and not the rule


----------



## Sonic Defender

ThanatosVI said:


> Well I can clearly hear the difference, maybe others hear them less, but I have no reason to assume that others can't hear differences in DACs.
> 
> Therefore the question, why wouldn't he hear it?
> 
> Sure it is possible that some DACs sound so similar to each other that you can't hear differences, but I consider that to be the exception and not the rule


Based on what evidence? If your only evidence is sighted listening, that isn't evidence at all. Not trying to be argumentative to be right or harsh, but the notion that sighted listening tests are in anyway valid is completely incorrect and that isn't opinion anymore than evolution is an opinion. It is based on well established scientific principles. Nobody is immune to expectation bias.


----------



## Rattle

Yes cookie cutter cheap chi fi designs that measure impeccably do all sound the same


----------



## Sonic Defender (Nov 12, 2020)

Rattle said:


> Yes cookie cutter cheap chi fi designs that measure impeccably do all sound the same


Whatever. So your theory is that a DAC should change the sound stream? That is what speakers and headphones are for, introduce character there as it is almost unavoidable there anyway. DACs and amps, nope, they should be transparent.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Rattle said:


> Yes cookie cutter cheap chi fi designs that measure impeccably do all sound the same


And I have spent a few thousands on a DAC. Never again, complete waste of money.


----------



## Ableza

Sonic Defender said:


> And I have spent a few thousands on a DAC. Never again, complete waste of money.


To each his own!  Enjoy the music.


----------



## Rattle

Sonic Defender said:


> Whatever. So your theory is that a DAC should change the sound stream? That is what speakers and headphones are for, introduce character there as it is almost unavoidable there anyway. DACs and amps, nope, they should be transparent.



I didn't say that I don't have a theory. I only mentioned that a lot of those dacs sound the same. If that's the sound you think is correct and you enjoy it then happy for you. Doesn't matter what you or I think. I see you post a lot in threads with these same posts.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Ableza said:


> To each his own!  Enjoy the music.


Absolutely, and I should have been more fair and accurate in what I stated. I should have said complete waste of money to me. Otherwise, it is like I have the right to judge how others do their thing. I certainly was crotchety there and that is never good. I agree with you, enjoy the music. Advice I will take, thanks.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Rattle said:


> I didn't say that I don't have a theory. I only mentioned that a lot of those dacs sound the same. If that's the sound you think is correct and you enjoy it then happy for you. Doesn't matter what you or I think. I see you post a lot in threads with these same posts.





Rattle said:


> I didn't say that I don't have a theory. I only mentioned that a lot of those dacs sound the same. If that's the sound you think is correct and you enjoy it then happy for you. Doesn't matter what you or I think. I see you post a lot in threads with these same posts.


Very true. Won't argue with you there.


----------



## kumar402

Sonic Defender said:


> Not likely, you are doing sighted listening tests I am sure. Now saying that, some implementations are not very good. Essentially if you can hear a difference in DACs, with one or all of them something is wrong. A DAC should do NOTHING more than accurately convert digital signals into analogue output. This has been achieved with absolute audible transparency possible for a number of years and it can and is available for rather surprisingly small sums of money today in stand alone DACs. Not to mention, simply because you hear differences, ascribing to the theory that there are some topological reasons you hear differences (design decisions to colour the sound) you can't assume that this is true for anything other than your sample of three. Are they the same DACs as other poster was considering? If not your experience may not be applicable to their experience.


If you compare DS DAC with R2R or Multibit DACs you will hear a difference and that difference won’t be subtle but a big one.
Based on your listening preference you may like one over another.


----------



## G0rt

kumar402 said:


> If you compare DS DAC with R2R or Multibit DACs you will hear a difference and that difference won’t be subtle but a big one.
> Based on your listening preference you may like one over another.



I currently have 4 different DACs connected through a Saga, allowing me to switch them quickly. 3 of them are fed from a powered optical splitter, the 4th uses coax, all from the same Pi 4 running Volumio: Bifrost 4490, Modi Multibit, Gungnir Multibit & HUD MX2.

All can sound very different, but depending entirely on the music, the complexity, compression, the mix, speed, layering, etc..

In my experience, little that seems simple in theory, remains so in practice.


----------



## lexterminator (Nov 13, 2020)

I have a Modi Multibit that I use in a living room system with a Saga/Vidar stack, compared to my Gustard A18 with AK4499 the Modi is more laidback and organic. But I typically prefer the brighter / more energetic AK4497/AK4499 chips especially along my Violectric V200 and Beyer T1.1 headphones with a Nordost Valhalla XLR cable. I would definitely be interested in a dual AK4499 Gungnir with Unison USB if it ever comes up but I don't hold my breath. I will still consider a Bifrost 2 / Gugnir Multibit as a complement to my current desk system. I'll post testing results if I pull the trigger on a new Schiit DAC.


----------



## Stereolab42

Just got a Gungnir Multibit to replace a high-end Sabre DAC. Really blown away by the precision of this DAC (paired with a WA-5 and original Abyss and LCD-XC). I feel like a kid in the candy store, going through familiar recordings just to hear how this DAC is presenting them. I'm sure some of this enthusiasm is the novelty factor of having a different DAC after so long, but it really does sound so damn sweet. I'd be shocked if the Yggy could be more than marginally better for more than another grand.


----------



## HiFiHawaii808

I've been wanting to upgrade my Modi Multibit to a Bifrost 2.    As I watch the used market, the Bifrost 2 (probably because it is relatively new) are holding their value.   But, the Gungnir multibits aren't.   I primarily listen to HD800S headphones on my Bottlehead Crack.    If the used price difference is only $200 or less, would it be better to pick up a Gungnir or a Bimby?


----------



## Relaxasaurus (Nov 29, 2020)

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I've been wanting to upgrade my Modi Multibit to a Bifrost 2.    As I watch the used market, the Bifrost 2 (probably because it is relatively new) are holding their value.   But, the Gungnir multibits aren't.   I primarily listen to HD800S headphones on my Bottlehead Crack.    If the used price difference is only $200 or less, would it be better to pick up a Gungnir or a Bimby?


I was so curious about the differences between the BF2 and the Gumby that I got both and made a review about it. I absolutely love the Gumby and am sad I sold it! I posted this elsewhere but hope this helps people pick out the differences in sound between the two.



Edit- starts at 17:29


----------



## Stereolab42

HiFiHawaii808 said:


> I've been wanting to upgrade my Modi Multibit to a Bifrost 2.    As I watch the used market, the Bifrost 2 (probably because it is relatively new) are holding their value.   But, the Gungnir multibits aren't.   I primarily listen to HD800S headphones on my Bottlehead Crack.    If the used price difference is only $200 or less, would it be better to pick up a Gungnir or a Bimby?



I have my BF2 multi sitting on top of my Gumby multi right now, both feeding into the WA5, similar quality cables. Going back-and-forth between them, the Gumby sounds a little bit less sloppy and more precise, but it's not a big difference. For me the price delta between the two is such that the Gumby is a no-brainer but if you're strapped for funds don't have any guilt picking the "Bimby". Once offices re-open it will return to being my office DAC.


----------



## ksorota

Relaxasaurus said:


> I was so curious about the differences between the BF2 and the Gumby that I got both and made a review about it. I absolutely love the Gumby and am sad I sold it! I posted this elsewhere but hope this helps people pick out the differences in sound between the two.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If you could choose again, would you still keep the AresII or would you have chosen the gumby?


----------



## Relaxasaurus

ksorota said:


> If you could choose again, would you still keep the AresII or would you have chosen the gumby?


I think the Gumby is better than the ARES II for sure. If I had to keep just one it would be the Gumby


----------



## Sonic Defender

Relaxasaurus said:


> I think the Gumby is better than the ARES II for sure. If I had to keep just one it would be the Gumby


Not a chance you would keep the Gumby over the RME ADI-2 I'll bet.


----------



## ksorota

Relaxasaurus said:


> I think the Gumby is better than the ARES II for sure. If I had to keep just one it would be the Gumby


Very interesting. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## kumar402

Sonic Defender said:


> Not a chance you would keep the Gumby over the RME ADI-2 I'll bet.


I'm not sure why would anyone pick RME over Gumby. If soundstaging, imaging, warm tonality is pleasing to your ears then you would definitely pick Gumby over it.


----------



## JWahl (Dec 9, 2020)

Sonic Defender said:


> Not a chance you would keep the Gumby over the RME ADI-2 I'll bet.



It's been a long time since I've owned the Gumby, but I just replaced the ADI-2 with a Modius.  Originally it was just intended as a budget-constraint downgrade, but it turns out the Modius made me enjoy music again that I had begun to get bored listening to.  The ADI-2 was basically sucking out all the microdynamic cues that give music it's expressiveness.  I even misjudged the Gilmore Lite Mk. 2 and SparkoS op-amps in the Burson Fun as slightly boring, simply because they were faithfully passing along what the ADI-2 was (or wasn't) resolving.  Can't even blame lack of discrete components or multibit.  The Modius and ADI-2 both use IC op-amps and identical DAC chips.  Definitely not cost bias either since the Modius is $200 vs. the $1,150 I paid for the ADI-2. It was actually harder to accept that I preferred the Modius with the price difference. The crazy thing is I'm only using the one USB cable into the computer to power the Modius, which should be the worst possible way to run it.  The iFi Neo iDSD I'm finishing reviewing as a loaner also did an excellent job in this area where the ADI-2 was weak.  Just goes to show the importance of implementation.  Now, I'm eyeing the Bifrost 2, or maybe even the Gumby again.  I'm also curious about the Matrix Mini-i Pro 3 and how it compares.  I did really like the Neo, but I also want to see how this newest generation of Schiit Multibit sounds, especially considering what the Modius is delivering at it's price.

Given all that, I do think if directly compared, it's entirely plausible someone prefers the Gumby, unless they just really need the extra features the ADI-2 DAC.  I will genuinely miss the utility of those features, but I'm also thrilled to actually enjoy music as music again.  To be fair, the Modius does have a greyer background and dryer sound than the ADI-2 and is a bit more rolled off at the extremes, but that rendering of microdynamic nuance is so critical to the reproduction of music for me that I can't go back to the ADI-2 now.


----------



## Brubacca

JWahl said:


> It's been a long time since I've owned the Gumby, but I just replaced the ADI-2 with a Modius.  Originally it was just intended as a budget-constraint downgrade, but it turns out the Modius made me enjoy music again that I had begun to get bored listening to.  The ADI-2 was basically sucking out all the microdynamic cues that give music it's expressiveness.  I even misjudged the Gilmore Lite Mk. 2 and SparkoS op-amps in the Burson Fun as slightly boring, simply because they were faithfully passing along what the ADI-2 was (or wasn't) resolving.  Can't even blame lack of discrete components or multibit.  The Modius and ADI-2 both use IC op-amps and identical DAC chips.  Definitely not cost bias either since the Modius is $200 vs. the $1,150 I paid for the ADI-2. It was actually harder to accept that I preferred the Modius with the price difference. The crazy thing is I'm only using the one USB cable into the computer to power the Modius, which should be the worst possible way to run it.  The iFi Neo iDSD I'm finishing reviewing as a loaner also did an excellent job in this area where the ADI-2 was weak.  Just goes to show the importance of implementation.  Now, I'm eyeing the Bifrost 2, or maybe even the Gumby again.  I'm also curious about the Matrix Mini-i Pro 3 and how it compares.  I did really like the Neo, but I also want to see how this newest generation of Schiit Multibit sounds, especially considering what the Modius is delivering at it's price.
> 
> Given all that, I do think if directly compared, it's entirely plausible someone prefers the Gumby, unless they just really need the extra features the ADI-2 DAC.  I will genuinely miss the utility of those features, but I'm also thrilled to actually enjoy music as music again.  To be fair, the Modius does have a greyer background and dryer sound than the ADI-2 and is a bit more rolled off at the extremes, but that rendering of microdynamic nuance is so critical to the reproduction of music for me that I can't go back to the ADI-2 now.



Actually I'll be comparing the Ifi Neo to a Gumby v1 with the Unison upgrade on my Cronus Magnum Tube Amp.


----------



## JWahl

Brubacca said:


> Actually I'll be comparing the Ifi Neo to a Gumby v1 with the Unison upgrade on my Cronus Magnum Tube Amp.



Nice.  Looking forward to it.  If I'm judging correctly by the last-name of whom I am sending it to next, I'm fairly certain that's you, and I should be shipping it tomorrow.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Dec 9, 2020)

Removed, don't want to make anybody feel attacked or called out.


----------



## Voxata

Bro... That was quite the message there. I feel for him though, as my D90 gets boring to listen to at times (though not often). Music doesn't have much warmth and isn't as engaging as it is with gear I have that isn't measurement focused.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Voxata said:


> Bro... That was quite the message there. I feel for him though, as my D90 gets boring to listen to at times (though not often). Music doesn't have much warmth and isn't as engaging as it is with gear I have that isn't measurement focused.


What you are saying is not making a claim that detail is missed, you are talking about getting bored of something. That is very different. All DACs are measurement focused, some just are better designed in that regard. The job of a DAC is not to introduce colour to the sound, that is the job of the speakers or headphones. I wasn't trying to be mean, but people come to communities to research gear and get a better understanding of the technical underpinnings of things. It is fine to have preferences, but we have to be clear about the difference between opinion and fact. As I said, if there are technical explanations for how a DAC can miss micro detail while preserving macro detail unaffected that is fine. I personally have never seen these explanations. I owned an original Gugnir DAC and rather liked it. I typically enjoy Schiit gear so believe me, I have no axe to grind. If the Modius had Bluetooth I would have bought it in a heartbeat.


----------



## Voxata

The Gungnir puts some color in there, I've heard many dacs with what I perceive as a unique sound.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Voxata said:


> The Gungnir puts some color in there, I've heard many dacs with what I perceive as a unique sound.


Indeed, nothing wrong with having a preference.


----------



## JWahl

Sonic Defender said:


> What you are saying is not making a claim that detail is missed, you are talking about getting bored of something. That is very different.



Fair enough, I was being a little lazy with my description.   I didn't see the deleted post, so I'm just responding to this.  I found the ADI-2 to be distinctly lacking in the ability to accurately resolve small-scale dynamic variations that impart various stylistic flourishes to music.  For instance, subtle differences in the striking of the piano, a trumpet player's articulation techniques, or a drummers subtle variations in impulsive energy that render a feeling of "groove".  These aren't characteristics that would appear on any of the typical suite of steady-state measurements, and to be honest, most of these measured differences in steady-state SINAD between DACs are going to be completely inaudible anyways.  Without a systems ability to resolve these variations that are present in the original recording, the music becomes boring, just as live music would be boring if a player had no subtle stylistic cues.

Theoretically, I think there is one way you could measure it.  First, you would take a short clip of the portion of audio where the perceived difference between the equipment is noted.  Then you record the measured output signal though each system with sufficient bit-depth and sample rate to perform a spectrogram analysis, which is essentially a discrete fft that is iterated over time at a set rate.  Then if you're particularly adept with Matlab, you could work some matrix-math magic to subtract out the difference in the two spectrograms.  The spectrogram still has it's limitations though, as it doesn't fully describe the phase of the signal.  You may also have to tweak the fft resolution parameters to zero in on the specific "problem".  There are some more advanced techniques like Wavelet Transforms, but that's starting to go way over my head.  Most of the people knowledgeable about those techniques are going to be doing more societally important research than audio equipment.  

Here's a pretty neat website I found that generates some animated spectrograms for a few simple audio signals to get an idea of the actual multi-domain complexity that exists in an audio signal of even simple instruments and sounds.   Chrome Music Lab - Spectrogram (chromeexperiments.com)  and some more general background  Understanding Spectrograms (izotope.com)

I get where you're coming from.  I'm a firm believer that if something is audible, it should be measurable. This is really getting into the sound science side of the forum, though.  The average person isn't coming here to read about spectrograms and wavelet transforms, they're just looking for subjective impressions.  I won't claim to be an expert in this field by any means either.  I'm in my senior year of an electrical-engineering degree and had to add a semester because I failed Signals and Systems, which is precisely the topic I'm discussing.  I didn't complete the final project in time, which partly involved manually creating a spectrogram in Matlab using iterated ffts, among other tasks.  It's entirely possible and likely that something I've even said in this post isn't 100% accurate either.  I can have some doofus moments.  

Clearly, I still have a lot to learn myself, and my overall point is that there is a lot more to the topic than just SINAD, impulse response, and frequency response measurements.  I know this post kind of reads like a gish-gallop, but again, I just wanted to convey the actual complexity, which often still confuses me on a daily basis.

To the actual topic of the Gungnir (or other Schiit DACs):  I'm guessing that Mike Moffat over the course of his career has probably developed the ability to correlate certain subjective auditory results with certain circuit parameters to be adjusted in the design of a DAC, and I personally think he's gotten pretty good at it (opinion).   The aforementioned measurement techniques have a very narrow application to identifying problem areas, and can be time consuming compared to just controlled listening.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I'm not going to respond as I don't want to go down the path that I did last time. While I may not agree with your arguments, I respect the passion with which you make them and how much you clearly care about sharing your passion with others. Enjoy the music as they say. Cheers.


----------



## senorx12562 (Dec 10, 2020)

Relaxasaurus said:


> I was so curious about the differences between the BF2 and the Gumby that I got both and made a review about it. I absolutely love the Gumby and am sad I sold it! I posted this elsewhere but hope this helps people pick out the differences in sound between the two.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit- starts at 17:29




Enjoyed your vid; thank you for your efforts. I had a Modi MB for a couple months and was so taken with the sound that when I received a small inheritance, I replaced it with a Gungnir MB (September 2017-"B" s/n). I have not heard any of the other dacs you reference in the video, because since I received the Gungnir I have had zero motivation to hear other dacs (especially the TT, as someone else with far more $ would have to die for me to be able to afford it even if I had any interest in changing my dac. Sad but true). I just enoy listening to music more than I ever did before I got it. For me, it solves the dac equation. Now, about that amp...


----------



## JWahl

Sonic Defender said:


> I'm not going to respond as I don't want to go down the path that I did last time. While I may not agree with your arguments, I respect the passion with which you make them and how much you clearly care about sharing your passion with others. Enjoy the music as they say. Cheers.


Thanks for understanding and remaining amicable.


----------



## Sonic Defender

JWahl said:


> Thanks for understanding and remaining amicable.


The same to you mate, cheers.


----------



## spw1880

Hi gungnir owners, i am currently using a schiit modius and have enjoyed it immensely. Since a headphone store has used gungnir up for sale but the store owner does not know what version it is as it belongs to another customer thatbhe is helping sell. The serial number starts with a C. I apologise in advance that if anyone has mention this is this thread before. 
Thanks


----------



## senorx12562

spw1880 said:


> Hi gungnir owners, i am currently using a schiit modius and have enjoyed it immensely. Since a headphone store has used gungnir up for sale but the store owner does not know what version it is as it belongs to another customer thatbhe is helping sell. The serial number starts with a C. I apologise in advance that if anyone has mention this is this thread before.
> Thanks


Theoretically (and I qualify it thus because Schitt has never even admitted that there are multiple versions) if it is a multibit it would be an A1, but whether it is a MB or not is shown by a separate sticker on the back. On mine, it is all the way to the left and mounted vertically, and says Gungnir Multibit on it, along with a number preceded by MB.


----------



## artur9

Experimenting a bit here with my 2ch system.

I had a signal chain that was 
                  minimserver up/down sample to 24/96 -> streamer coax -> preamp (xover & RC) dig coax -> GMB bal -> amps.
motivated by my preamp digitizing and processing all inputs at 24/96 sample rate.

I changed it to 
                  minimserver (no processing) -> streamer coax -> GMB bal -> preamp (xover & RC) bal -> amps

The change due to wanting to try out Schiit's filter directly instead of a pre-masticated data stream and that the wifi in the house doesn't support high res streaming (it's crap, right?)

The downside is that I think I hear a bit more veiling; a bit more cotton over everything.

The upside has two aspects.  Sounds seem a bit more understandable - lyrics are easier to understand.
The processing I was doing also seemed to smooth the sound a bit.  There's a bit more growl in the instruments that have growl, more grit in voices.  To me removing this smoothing makes things sound a bit more natural.  Maybe these two things are the same thing.

Something along the lines of the sounds previously sounding like ssssshhhhhh and now it sounds ssshhh-ssshhh-ssshhh.  Can't wait to see how this affects acoustic guitar!


----------



## cgb3 (Dec 27, 2020)

spw1880 said:


> Hi gungnir owners, i am currently using a schiit modius and have enjoyed it immensely. Since a headphone store has used gungnir up for sale but the store owner does not know what version it is as it belongs to another customer thatbhe is helping sell. The serial number starts with a C. I apologise in advance that if anyone has mention this is this thread before.
> Thanks


I suggest you compare the current Gungnir DAC on the Schiit site with your local example.
https://www.schiit.com/products/gungnir

You might also record the serial number of your local example, and email Schiit customer service with your query. My experience has been very positive with Schiit service. (I never tire of saying "Schiit service"). Yea, I'm 11 years old.


----------



## Gorillaphant

Was looking into upgrading my DAC from a Topping D50S and was considering the following. I will be pairing it with my Topping A90:

Bifrost 2
Denafrips Ares II
Gungnir Multibit
Currently leaning toward the Bifrost 2 mostly for the price to performance ratio. Is there a clear best option among these, or something else I should be considering?


----------



## ThanatosVI

Gorillaphant said:


> Was looking into upgrading my DAC from a Topping D50S and was considering the following. I will be pairing it with my Topping A90:
> 
> Bifrost 2
> Denafrips Ares II
> ...


Price performance wise the Bifrost is the best among those. 

You could also consider a Holo Spring 2


----------



## reddog

Gorillaphant said:


> Was looking into upgrading my DAC from a Topping D50S and was considering the following. I will be pairing it with my Topping A90:
> 
> Bifrost 2
> Denafrips Ares II
> ...


I hear the birds 2 is a good unit, although I have not personally listened to one. The Gungnir is a great day. It is detailed and natural sounding. I use it to watch dad's and cd's.  I have no experience  Denafrips Ares II.  I hope whichever DAC you choose, your system puts a big old smile on your face.


----------



## spacecase25 (Mar 10, 2021)

I've been playing around with HQPlayer and have landed on settings that I feel are the best for this DAC and improve the sound quite a bit for reasons.

Schiit published the knee to their filter on the Yggy FAQ page, and since the Gungnir MB shares the same filter, we can assume that this applies here too.  After trying out various filters with HQPlayer and "measuring" them, sinc-m is a long enough filter to preserve this high frequency performance.  Sinc-M is also an apodizing filter, where Schiit has designed their MB DACs to used non-apodizing filters (closed form) to preserve the original samples.  However, this means these DACs are very unforgiving to poor mastering.  You hear exactly what the recording is.  The apodizing filter sounds better overall between good masters and poor masters, and preserves the high frequency performance of Schiit's filter, giving it the same enveloping sense of space, but with less "edge" (distortion).

In my attempts to learn about digital filtering, it seems that the ideal reconstruction filter is a sinc filter of infinite length, and ringing doesn't affect real music because the summed samples don't ring, and rinigng should only happen if the signal hits the band limit?  I'm a little more unclear on that part.  However, from my "measurements" of these filters sinc-m definitely rings, but appears before and after the audible content, as it would with a single sample pulse, as often measured.  https://i.imgur.com/CZZOMQp.png (white noise) Or perhaps it does ring throughout and that's what gives it the "wet" enveloping sound.

Additionally, the AD5781BRUZ is an 18 bit chip.  I've gathered from forum posts that the DSP Schiit uses deals with this by "rounding" anything beyond 18 bits to 18 bits, which creates distortion.  HQPlayer allows dithering down to 18 bits for 24bit files with the added bonus of noise shaping.  I've gone with the NS9 option as it is best suited for 4x sampling rates, and was designed to be used with the R2R DACs that "inspired" these multibit DACs.  This should remove some of the measured noise in these DACs, as there is nothing to round off.  The NS9 noise shaping drops the digital noise floor until about 10kHz where it raises slightly above "standard" dithering.  The theory is that human hearing is less sensitive at higher frequencies, so you end up with cleaner, deeper bass-midrange and highs that are perfectly fine.  This does seem to fit my experience.  When playing redbook, which fits into the 18bits, this should just drop the noise floor without affecting the music content.

I have no way to measure the output from the DAC, and I've probably improperly used terms interchangeably.

To me it seems like this DAC would benefit from an apodizing filter, and perhaps preserving the original samples isn't always the best approach.

This DAC sounds incredible, and I really enjoyed it before using HQPlayer, now I think it sounds even better.  At the end of the day the Gungnir (only) costs $1200!  I've owned it since 2016 and I see years of enjoyment ahead.

So, that was very subjective... but I'm hoping someone else can do some measurements and see what's going on here.

I think the key is the apodizing filter, and sending an 18bit signal, with the noise shaping as a nice bonus.


----------



## artur9

spacecase25 said:


> Additionally, the AD5781BRUZ is an 18 bit chip.  I've gathered from forum posts that the DSP Schiit uses deals with this by "rounding" anything beyond 18 bits to 18 bits,


They also deal with it by using 2 chips to get an additional output bit AIUI.  You may want to experiment a bit more by truncating to 19, 20 and 21 bits to maybe hear a little more.


----------



## senorx12562

artur9 said:


> They also deal with it by using 2 chips to get an additional output bit AIUI.  You may want to experiment a bit more by truncating to 19, 20 and 21 bits to maybe hear a little more.


I could be wrong (lord knows it's happened numerous times before) but I thought the Gumby used two chips per channel, so 4 total.


----------



## spacecase25

artur9 said:


> They also deal with it by using 2 chips to get an additional output bit AIUI.  You may want to experiment a bit more by truncating to 19, 20 and 21 bits to maybe hear a little more.


I don't think that translates into actual bits processed. I think Mike (I think it was one of mike's posts) was saying that summing the two together nets a noise floor equivalent to 19 bits, however there's still nowhere for a 19th bit to be processed in the chips.


----------



## artur9 (Mar 11, 2021)

spacecase25 said:


> I don't think that translates into actual bits processed. I think Mike (I think it was one of mike's posts) was saying that summing the two together nets a noise floor equivalent to 19 bits, however there's still nowhere for a 19th bit to be processed in the chips.


Here's @Baldr saying something about it re: Yggdrasil.  I would think similar would hold for GungnirMB.  I don't know enough to pretend to understand.


----------



## Voxata

Design aside the Gungnir to me (especially the A1) is about a meaty, engaging sound. It just sounds great with everything. The later versions are a bit less forgiving however I've never heard a dac match Gungnir's ability to sound great with everything while also being technically capable and realistic sounding. The wide sound is also very enjoyable.


----------



## reddog

The Gungnir is indeed a great sounding DAC, I use it with my Mjolnir amp with my NOS Telefunken tubes and the sound is intoxicating.  I am glad you like your new DAC so much


----------



## artur9

An experiment to report and a problem.

The experiment:  I swapped out my preamp, which has AD/DA and room eq, for a Little Bear MC2 passive preamp not on active duty.  Chain went from 
Streamer->GMB->Preamp->Amps, with a variety of DSP in the preamp, to 
Streamer->GMB->Little Bear->Amps.

The difference was not what I was expecting.  Long sustains, like the note in Tchaikovsky's Pathetique (Reiner), became smoother - more like someone holding the note.  It was a bit "static-y" before.  Also, some of the noise I was whining about on this recording sound more atmospheric instead of noisy.  In fact, I thought I heard the musicians shuffling about.

Downside is my subwoofers aren't involved anymore so bass is less impactful.  OTOH, GMB bass is not to bad on its own.  My speakers do have decent bass on their own so....


Now the problem:
Sounds great for CD/Red Book.  I have another Pathetique in 88K and it is mostly static in this set up.  Is the GMB failing to switch clocks?  I restarted it and same problem.


----------



## senorx12562

artur9 said:


> An experiment to report and a problem.
> 
> The experiment:  I swapped out my preamp, which has AD/DA and room eq, for a Little Bear MC2 passive preamp not on active duty.  Chain went from
> Streamer->GMB->Preamp->Amps, with a variety of DSP in the preamp, to
> ...


With mine, when the sample rate changes from one track to the next, I can always hear a mechanical click (relay iirc). Not through the speakers, from the device itself. From 44.1 to 88.2 would be the same clock so I would be surprised if that was the problem. Do you hear the click?


----------



## artur9

senorx12562 said:


> With mine, when the sample rate changes from one track to the next, I can always hear a mechanical click (relay iirc). Not through the speakers, from the device itself. From 44.1 to 88.2 would be the same clock so I would be surprised if that was the problem. Do you hear the click?


I don't hear a click.

I'll need to try a few other tracks.  I used to upsample everything on the streamer to 96K so the GMB may have gotten lazy about figuring out the sample rates itself


----------



## senorx12562

artur9 said:


> I don't hear a click.
> 
> I'll need to try a few other tracks.  I used to upsample everything on the streamer to 96K so the GMB may have gotten lazy about figuring out the sample rates itself


I would also try different inputs just to narrow down the possibilities. If you have to contact Schiit they will probably ask anyway. I would also try cycling the power.


----------



## artur9

Seems my streamer or BubbleUPNP is screwing things up.  I unchecked a box in BubbleUPNP to never change formats.  Let's see how that goes.


----------



## senorx12562

Hope that is it.


----------



## Monadist

Does anyone know how Gumby compares to Denafrips Venus? I've been eyeing that one as a possible upgrade. From what I've been reading, Venus sounds like it could be a major step up.


----------



## hikaru12

Paladin79 said:


> I own a Bifrost 2 and a fairly new Gungnir and I prefer the Gungnir to the Yggdrasil but I have a hard time saying I like the Bifrost better than the Gungnir. It is very different sounding, and I like it more with some music and the Gungnir more with other songs. I am using the Bifrost with a Lyr 3 and the Gungnir with the Mjolnir so I need to A/B them more with the same amps to do a more serious comparison.



Was it the Yggy A2 or A1 (GS) model? I didn't really care much for the GS/A1 model. It sounded pretty dry even though it was very detailed.


----------



## Paladin79

hikaru12 said:


> Was it the Yggy A2 or A1 (GS) model? I didn't really care much for the GS/A1 model. It sounded pretty dry even though it was very detailed.


It has been a while it it may well have been the A1 model.


----------



## artur9

How long an XLR cable run can the Gungnir support?  3', 6'.  I'm hoping for 25'


----------



## Paladin79

artur9 said:


> How long an XLR cable run can the Gungnir support?  3', 6'.  I'm hoping for 25'


If you are talking AES/EBU, they are made for long runs. 25 feet is nothing for that signal.


----------



## senorx12562

Paladin79 said:


> If you are talking AES/EBU, they are made for long runs. 25 feet is nothing for that signal.


Gungnir has no AES input. He must be talking about an analog signal. I run 15 foot XLR outs without any apparent problems.


----------



## Paladin79

senorx12562 said:


> Gungnir has no AES input. He must be talking about an analog signal. I run 15 foot XLR outs without any apparent problems.


I have not looked at mine lately thanks. I have several DAC’s. 25 feet for an analog signal is fine, I use the same cable for analog and digital.


----------



## artur9

Paladin79 said:


> I have not looked at mine lately thanks. I have several DAC’s. 25 feet for an analog signal is fine, I use the same cable for analog and digital





senorx12562 said:


> Gungnir has no AES input. He must be talking about an analog signal. I run 15 foot XLR outs without any apparent problems.




Thanks to you both.  Reason I asked is because I replaced my active preamp with a passive and I can measure the high frequency loss.
If I can run the long cable from my GMB to the passive and get rid of that effect it would make me happier.  Plus the extra exercise to adjust the volume


----------



## artur9

Paladin79 said:


> If you are talking AES/EBU, they are made for long runs. 25 feet is nothing for that signal.


Would this also be true for BNC?


----------



## Paladin79

artur9 said:


> Would this also be true for BNC?


BNC with coaxial will not travel as far as AES as I recall but 25 feet is certainly doable.


----------



## kumar402

Paladin79 said:


> BNC with coaxial will not travel as far as AES as I recall but 25 feet is certainly doable.


Isn’t BNC like single ended AES with 75ohm impedance to run 1v. I guess BNC can also take long distance signal. It’s the RCA SPDIF that can struggle. 
please correct me if I’m wrong.


----------



## Paladin79

kumar402 said:


> Isn’t BNC like single ended AES with 75ohm impedance to run 1v. I guess BNC can also take long distance signal. It’s the RCA SPDIF that can struggle.
> please correct me if I’m wrong.


That sounds correct, much of it is about distance and signal loss. It’s been awhile  since I studied this. I run RCA SPDIF around maybe 20 feet right now with quality Belden cable. I would use the same for BNC.


----------



## cobrabucket (Apr 4, 2021)

Hey guys. I watched a video review about the ARES II recently and was asked by the video creator to share my impressions between the ARES II and my current Schiit Gungnir [A2].
(I also posted this to the ARES thread on hf.)
This was my response: "I am still in the process of comparing these 2 excellent DACs. So far I think it is pretty much how I heard it described by reviewers: 
The Gumby has very good soundstage and 3D spatial presentation but is a decent amount better on detail retrieval and resolution. 
The ARES II has better bass and a wider soundstage, and an equally satisfying, but different 3D spatial feel, but is slightly behind the Gumby in micro-detail and resolution. 
I would describe the presentation of both as "holographic," especially compared with DS DACs.
Even though the ARES is wider sounding, it sounds a bit "congested" or "congealed" [for lack of better words] compared with the Gumby. Instruments blend together more on the ARES while the Gumby sounds like the "layering" of the instruments is better. 
Obviously, I am over-emphasizing the differences in order to contrast these with each other. They are similar at first listen.
Both are very, very good. And without a doubt there are tracks/albums that I prefer on the ARES, but the Gumby just sounds great with everything, IMO!
And that is only my thoughts on PCM! Schiit DACs don't support DSD  
For DSD I will compare the ARES II to the JNOG and try to test whether I have a strong preference for the ARES.
Although it is a fantastic DAC (especially for the money), I might not be able to justify keeping it in the fold. Essentially, I would have to hear a significant difference in DSD presentation to rationalize keeping it. 
TBH though, I wish I could own like 5 or 6 different types of DACs just to be able to use it like a spice or seasoning to "flavor" the sound for different moods, but that seems excessive. Oh well. First-World problems as they say. Guess I should just continue to try and be grateful and enjoy the music..."
Anyways, that's probably my most detailed writing on how something sounds. Hope it's not filled with too many cliche or noobish terms and whatnot.


----------



## John Q Lin

Hi guys

I don't have much experience with high end schiit gears, I'm thinking about going with the Gungnir, Ragnarok combo. I currently have a grace design m903 and RME ADI 2. I have jbl lsr 305s, and jbl580 Tower speakers. And variety of headphones. How much improvement can I expect? I'm also curious about the topping A90 & D90 combo. 
Has anyone here have experience the gears mentioned above? And how it competes with high end schiit?

Thank you!


----------



## cobrabucket

IMO, Gumby stomps all over the D90 and ADI-2 in sound quality. I have not heard the Ragnarok, but I currently have a Jotunheim 2 which I have heard compares favorably with the Rag. I sold my A90 after getting the Jot 2 bc the A90 sounded far less dynamic in comparison. Haven't heard the m903, so I can't speak to that, but the Gungnir MultiBit is an indispensable part of my listening experience, which also includes JBL 305s. HIGHLY REC'D!


----------



## Tarttett

@LCMusicLover 

Hi.

I am sorry to possibly disturb you, but I would be interested to know of why you decided to change your DAC to the Gungnir, from the Pontus.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Tarttett said:


> @LCMusicLover Hi.
> 
> I am sorry to possibly disturb you, but I would be interested to know of why you decided to change your DAC to the Gungnir, from the Pontus.


In A/B comparisons (both fed from same source via SU-1, both playing to same amp via preamp source-switching) I preferred the more crisp/detailed sound of the Gumby to the slightly more musical, but less precise sound of the Pontus.  Relatively small difference, but non-zero.

Here's a post I wrote on the subject.  I had started out trying to compare cables, but ended up comparing DACs at the same time:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-utopia-general-discussion.811273/post-15402529


----------



## Paladin79

LCMusicLover said:


> In A/B comparisons (both fed from same source via SU-1, both playing to same amp via preamp source-switching) I preferred the more crisp/detailed sound of the Gumby to the slightly more musical, but less precise sound of the Pontus.  Relatively small difference, but non-zero.
> 
> Here's a post I wrote on the subject.  I had started out trying to compare cables, but ended up comparing DACs at the same time:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-utopia-general-discussion.811273/post-15402529


My local audio group ran blind comparisons on 20 dacs ranging from $500 to $6,000 but unfortunately the SU-1 was not in that group. We did have a Gungnir and Yggy in there though.


----------



## cobrabucket (Apr 8, 2021)

> I preferred the more crisp/detailed sound of the Gumby to the slightly more musical, but less precise sound of the Pontus.


Well said. That's pretty much how I would describe what I am hearing when comparing the ARES II with the Gumby. Ares is slightly more "musical", but the Gumby was more crisp, clean and detailed. I should have a PI2AES in a few weeks to see if that has any discernible improvements over the Gumby's Gen5 USB.


----------



## John Q Lin

cobrabucket said:


> IMO, Gumby stomps all over the D90 and ADI-2 in sound quality. I have not heard the Ragnarok, but I currently have a Jotunheim 2 which I have heard compares favorably with the Rag. I sold my A90 after getting the Jot 2 bc the A90 sounded far less dynamic in comparison. Haven't heard the m903, so I can't speak to that, but the Gungnir MultiBit is an indispensable part of my listening experience, which also includes JBL 305s. HIGHLY REC'D!


Thank you for your help! I have a  Ragnarok incoming, I was very impressed with the RME, I think I'll pass on what topping has to offer because it doesn't seem like a upgrade to what I have. I'm very curious about the gumby.


----------



## artur9

Paladin79 said:


> My local audio group ran blind comparisons on 20 dacs ranging from $500 to $6,000 but unfortunately the SU-1 was not in that group. We did have a Gungnir and Yggy in there though.


Any major takeaways you could share?


----------



## artur9

I noticed yesterday that my GMB's coax input is a bit wobbly.  

How concerned should I be?


----------



## Paladin79

artur9 said:


> Any major takeaways you could share?


I best not, I can try to PM you later. Such things can cause arguments.😀


----------



## cobrabucket

Paladin79 said:


> I best not, I can try to PM you later. Such things can cause arguments.😀


I'd love to hear your thoughts too via PM if possible. Cheers!


----------



## Wes S (Apr 30, 2021)

edited and removed because I inaccurate info.


----------



## Wes S (Apr 30, 2021)

artur9 said:


> Any major takeaways you could share?


I always find those blind test don't yield the best results.  I have found you have to live with a piece of gear for days to weeks, to get a feel for it and be able to compare.  Jumping back and forth between gear and straining to hear differences, just wears out yours ears.


----------



## Paladin79 (Apr 30, 2021)

Wes S said:


> I always find those blind test don't yield the best results.  I have found you have to live with a piece of gear for days to weeks, to get a feel for it and be able to compare.  Jumping back and forth between gear and straining to hear differences, just wears out yours ears.


It truly depends on how the tests are set up, we have music recorded specifically to show off 25 different criteria and 50 people are used as a test group because of the accuracy of large numbers. Audio engineers control the volume level so all levels are the same. We will be doing the same thing for 6SN7 tubes using four identical amps I designed and built. This is a team effort and the way my audiophile group likes to run such tests.

There is no jumping back and forth, you listen and score each DAC or amp or tube or whatever. At the very end if you have identical scores you can go back and revisit a couple devices if you like. I set up something for Jason at Schiit using tubes by the way, after he heard about what I was doing with other friends. This was only eight tubes that I sealed in PVC and Saga's were used. It was indeed a double blind test since no one knew what the tubes were till after the testing. DAC's can be tricky I agree but we did not know if we were listening to a $500 DAC  or a $5,000 DAC, this eliminates expectation bias. I leant my Gungnir to the trial, someone else had a Yggy, Schiit was the only manufacturer with two devices in the group.  The problem with what I set up for Jason is only 6sn7's of a certain size and shape could be used. PSvanes would not fit, or single triode tubes like 7a4's or 6J5's. My new testing allows for any 6sn7 equivalent to be compared.

With a large group and averaging the scores you can get a large sampling. One test subject had her test results match those of the entire group, that is unusual and rare. I had numbers five and six reversed compared to the final outcome. As far as wearing out ears, all test subjects are doing fine.


----------



## hodgjy

artur9 said:


> I noticed yesterday that my GMB's coax input is a bit wobbly.
> 
> How concerned should I be?


Depends on your interpretation of wobbly. I can move mine slightly with my fingers, but it's not like a limp string or anything.


----------



## artur9

hodgjy said:


> Depends on your interpretation of wobbly. I can move mine slightly with my fingers, but it's not like a limp string or anything.


Wobbly to me means the side to side motion is maybe 1/8 inch or so.


----------



## senorx12562

hodgjy said:


> Depends on your interpretation of wobbly. I can move mine slightly with my fingers, but it's not like a limp string or anything.


Some amount of give is inevitable and desirable, as the alternative is breakage. My coax ports will move a little using just my fingers but only with a bit of force applied, but add some leverage in the form of a stiff digital cable, and they move pretty easily. But I would rather it move than break.


----------



## hodgjy

artur9 said:


> Wobbly to me means the side to side motion is maybe 1/8 inch or so.


Mine doesn’t move that much.


----------



## macdonjh

Several familiar "faces" here...

I just received a Gungnir DS yesterday.  So recently I haven't even broken my ears in.  However, my Bifrost I multi-bit makes me wonder what the differences are between the Gungnir DS and multi-bit?  There are aspects of the DS I already like and would hate to lose, but there are things my multi-bit Bifrost does better and I wonder if it's part of the multi-bit "thing".  So, if anyone who has gone from Gungnir DS to multi-bit (or the other way 'round) can relate the differences he or she has heard, I'd be appreciative to read about it.

Sorry if this has been covered.  I've done some simple searches and skimmed quickly though this thread in particular, but didn't find what I was looking for.  Not that it isn't out there.


----------



## M-83

Hey all,

Apologies for duplicating what I have already said on the MJ2 thread...though if anyone is considering selling Gumby A1 & MJ2 (both 230v version compatible with UK power supply) and is either located within the UK or EU, please PM me.

Thanks!


----------



## M-83

M-83 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Apologies for duplicating what I have already said on the MJ2 thread...though if anyone is considering selling Gumby A1 & MJ2 (both 230v version compatible with UK power supply) and is either located within the UK or EU, please PM me.
> 
> Thanks!


I've a Gumby and MJ2 on the way... Can't wait!


----------



## ThanatosVI

M-83 said:


> I've a Gumby and MJ2 on the way... Can't wait!


Congratz, this seemed like an incredibly rare combo in europe especially since the MJ is no longer produced.

About a year ago I also aimed for that Setup


----------



## Rowethren

It's great combination! I think the reason not many turn up is because people don't want to part with the. Mine certainly won't be going anywhere!


----------



## M-83

ThanatosVI said:


> Congratz, this seemed like an incredibly rare combo in europe especially since the MJ is no longer produced.
> 
> About a year ago I also aimed for that Setup


Thx very much.  I'm delighted with the purchase. It was more than my budget originally allowed, but I went for it and sealed the deal at a price both parties are happy with 

This is my second chance at Gumby & MJ2 ownership.  I'll be keeping them this time.


----------



## hodgjy

macdonjh said:


> Several familiar "faces" here...
> 
> I just received a Gungnir DS yesterday.  So recently I haven't even broken my ears in.  However, my Bifrost I multi-bit makes me wonder what the differences are between the Gungnir DS and multi-bit?  There are aspects of the DS I already like and would hate to lose, but there are things my multi-bit Bifrost does better and I wonder if it's part of the multi-bit "thing".  So, if anyone who has gone from Gungnir DS to multi-bit (or the other way 'round) can relate the differences he or she has heard, I'd be appreciative to read about it.
> 
> Sorry if this has been covered.  I've done some simple searches and skimmed quickly though this thread in particular, but didn't find what I was looking for.  Not that it isn't out there.


Differences between DACs are quite subtle, but yet we talk about them in large terms.

To me, the mutlibit vs DS differences are (in favor of the multibit), less grain in the treble (for example, cymbals are slightly more life-like), a little more bass slam, the layering is a bit more complex. But these differences are subtle and you really have to train your ears to hear them. And quickly A/B'ing isn't the way to hear the differences. Listen to one DAC for a long period and then switch and listen to the other DAC for a long period.


----------



## macdonjh

hodgjy said:


> Differences between DACs are quite subtle, but yet we talk about them in large terms.
> 
> To me, the mutlibit vs DS differences are (in favor of the multibit), less grain in the treble (for example, cymbals are slightly more life-like), a little more bass slam, the layering is a bit more complex. But these differences are subtle and you really have to train your ears to hear them. And quickly A/B'ing isn't the way to hear the differences. Listen to one DAC for a long period and then switch and listen to the other DAC for a long period.


Thanks for that @hodgjy.   I understand we audio hobbyists are prone to hyperbole, so I understand the differences may be subtle.  However, even the subtle differences may be important and immediately noticeable to somebody who's practiced hearing them and has a desire for a certain sound.

What you describe is partly what I would look for in the change from DS to MB.


----------



## senorx12562

Ime, the benefits of Schiit's MB dacs vs d/s dacs (if benefits they are; not all agree) are more apparent with speakers than with headphones.


----------



## macdonjh

senorx12562 said:


> Ime, the benefits of Schiit's MB dacs vs d/s dacs (if benefits they are; not all agree) are more apparent with speakers than with headphones.


I absolutely get that.  If everyone like DS, there'd be no multi-bit, and vice versa.
Hmmm, I hadn't heard that perspective before.


----------



## senorx12562

macdonjh said:


> I absolutely get that.  If everyone like DS, there'd be no multi-bit, and vice versa.
> Hmmm, I hadn't heard that perspective before.


For me, said benefits are mostly in the area of timbre/tonality and spatial relationships like staging, separation, and layering, and these characteristics (especially spatial info) are more audible with speakers. I am also pretty sure this is dependant on the rest of one's gear and factors individual to the listener. Ymmv and all that of course


----------



## macdonjh

senorx12562 said:


> For me, said benefits are mostly in the area of timbre/tonality and spatial relationships like staging, separation, and layering, and these characteristics (especially spatial info) are more audible with speakers. I am also pretty sure this is dependant on the rest of one's gear and factors individual to the listener. Ymmv and all that of course


As if this won't get complex...    

Timbre and tonality I think I'll hear more with my head phones than my speakers- my room is less than ideal.  Staging I would definitely hear more with my speakers, I rarely listen for soundstage when using head phones.  But that's just me.  Separation: hmmm, if you mean instrumental separation across the sound stage (like violins to the left, double basses to the right, brass in the rear on the right) then see the previous sentence.  However, if you mean the ability to distinguish between clarinet and soprano sax, violin and viola; then that could either be sound staging, tonality or even articulation.  Some of which I think I'd hear best with head phones, some through speakers.  I'm not sure what to do with layering, I don't use that term when describing sound.

Thanks for your thoughts about the Gungnir.  Interesting discussion.


----------



## M-83

Hey guys,

I'd appreciate some advice pls 

I have a Gumby + MJ2 on the way, which I would like to use with Mrspeakers Alpha Prime (and possibly ZMF Atticus). I would prefer balanced over SE.

I also have a Feliks Echo OTL amp on the way, which "only" has a SE connection.

So, my question is, can I connect to gumby : MJ2 balanced, Echo SE.... and leave everything connected?

I will likely only have one amp powered at a time but there may be times where I would like to A/B the setup.

Or would I require something like Schiit Sys?  Can Schiit Sys even be used with good results in an otherwise balanced chain?

Cheers!


----------



## macdonjh

There's a switch on the back of the Gungnir that forces you to select between balanced and SE output, so you'll only be able to drive one amp at a time.  You should be safe having both connected at once.

I had a pair of Atticus for a while.  They are one of the few head phones I've tried where the difference between balanced and SE was immediately noticeable and a marked improvement.  If your Atticus don't have a balanced cable, I recommend you have one available before your Mjolnir II arrives.  By the way, the Mjolnir will have NO trouble with the Atticus.  At least mine didn't.


----------



## M-83

macdonjh said:


> There's a switch on the back of the Gungnir that forces you to select between balanced and SE output, so you'll only be able to drive one amp at a time.  You should be safe having both connected at once.
> 
> I had a pair of Atticus for a while.  They are one of the few head phones I've tried where the difference between balanced and SE was immediately noticeable and a marked improvement.  If your Atticus don't have a balanced cable, I recommend you have one available before your Mjolnir II arrives.  By the way, the Mjolnir will have NO trouble with the Atticus.  At least mine didn't.


Hey. Thanks for the swift detailed reply. Much obliged. 

Okay good to know that I can leave everything connected up.

My Atticus does have a balanced cable so will use it in that way with MJ2. 

I'd read numerous comments that suggest MJ2 isn't the best amp for Atticus which is why I thought I'd get a Feliks Echo too (got a cracking deal that would have been daft to turn down) just in case.

But good to know you thought Atticus played nicely with Mjolnir.

Thanks again.


----------



## macdonjh

M-83 said:


> Hey. Thanks for the swift detailed reply. Much obliged.
> 
> Okay good to know that I can leave everything connected up.
> 
> ...


Certainly enough power under the Mjolnir's hood.  As for whether or not the sound is to your liking...  The worst that happens is you like your Feliks Echo better and use an adapter to connect your Atticus to it.


----------



## hodgjy

macdonjh said:


> *There's a switch on the back of the Gungnir that forces you to select between balanced and SE output, so you'll only be able to drive one amp at a time.  You should be safe having both connected at once.*


This is incorrect. There is no such switch on the back on the Gungnir. I have the DAC and am looking at it right now. All three outputs are active at the same time (2 SE, 1 BAL) but you can hook up multiple amps at the same time. That's the point of having multiple outputs. You will not cause any harm to the Gungnir or the amps you connect to it.

@M-83


----------



## macdonjh

hodgjy said:


> This is incorrect. There is no such switch on the back on the Gungnir. I have the DAC and am looking at it right now. All three outputs are active at the same time (2 SE, 1 BAL) but you can hook up multiple amps at the same time. That's the point of having multiple outputs. You will not cause any harm to the Gungnir or the amps you connect to it.
> 
> @M-83


Oops, sorry everyone.  The switch is on the back of the Mjolnir I to select between SE and balanced inputs.  I should have been as conscientious as @hodgjy and double checked before posting.  Thanks for posting the proper information, @hodgjy.


----------



## hodgjy

macdonjh said:


> Oops, sorry everyone.  *The switch is on the back of the Mjolnir I to select between SE and balanced inputs. * I should have been as conscientious as @hodgjy and double checked before posting.  Thanks for posting the proper information, @hodgjy.


I hate being "that guy," but there's no such switch on the Mjolnir, either.


----------



## macdonjh

hodgjy said:


> I hate being "that guy," but there's no such switch on the Mjolnir, either.


There is on my Mjolnir I.  Before that previous post, I looked to be sure.


----------



## hodgjy (May 26, 2021)

macdonjh said:


> There is on my Mjolnir I.  Before that previous post, I looked to be sure.





macdonjh said:


> There is on my Mjolnir I.  Before that previous post, I looked to be sure.


Ah, yes, you're correct on the 1. I was referring to the 2 since @M-83 has one inbound. Looks like we both had brain farts tonight. Beers on me.


----------



## macdonjh

hodgjy said:


> There's a gain
> 
> Ah, yes, you're correct on the 1. I was referring to the 2 since @M-83 has one inbound. Looks like we both had brain farts tonight. Beers on me.


Indeed.  I'm getting ready to pop a top right now.  I'll pretend you bought it.  Next round is on me, though, since you caught my error first.  It's interesting Schiit did away with the output selector switch for the Mjolnir II.  I wonder why?  

I'll report back in a little while about whether beer tastes better when bought by somebody else.


----------



## hodgjy

macdonjh said:


> Indeed.  I'm getting ready to pop a top right now.  I'll pretend you bought it.  Next round is on me, though, since you caught my error first.  It's interesting Schiit did away with the output selector switch for the Mjolnir II.  I wonder why?
> 
> I'll report back in a little while about whether beer tastes better when bought by somebody else.


It might have to do with the 1 only having BAL headphone outs the 2 having both BAL and SE. Who knows. Only Jason would know.


----------



## macdonjh

Cross-posted from the Schiit thread/ Jason Stoddard blog: 

I've been spending more time than usual with my headphones in my bed room system.  It's Gungnir's fault.  I've been having fun leaning how the G-DS sounds.  I've decided it's not my favorite for bands like: 

Parliament
Rush
Pink Floyd
Isley Brothers
However, it sounds really good for music from: 

Mark Knopfler
Joe Satriani sounds pretty good
Most classical, especially the bit of chamber music I have
Small-group acoustic jazz
Overall, Gungnir DS is smooth and musical.  Good detail retrieval without being clinical or dry.  What I miss is the bass slam (or, given the new lexicon, should that be slaaaaam?) of my Bifrost multi-bit.  It's not that bass is MIA.  It's there.  It extends well and plumbs depths.  I want it to be more up-front, more in-my-face.  Or at least I want the DAC to have that capability when the music I'm listening to warrants it.  So that's what I hope I get when my number comes up in the Gungnir queue.  But I hope the multi-bit board allows the Gungnir to do all the things it does so well above 200 Hz.  Please don't lose that.


----------



## duranxv

How does the Gungnir Multibit compare with some of the other well regarded R2R DACS from Denafrips (Ares/Pontus), Soekris or some of the new players out there like Musician?


----------



## ThanatosVI

duranxv said:


> How does the Gungnir Multibit compare with some of the other well regarded R2R DACS from Denafrips (Ares/Pontus), Soekris or some of the new players out there like Musician?


No idea about Soekris and Musician, but it's definitely compareable to Pontus.
I'd say better in detail and less warm than Ares II

So it certainly is competitive in the class, which one is the best for you is a matter of preference.


----------



## DenverW

Has anyone done the upgrade to the unison usb?  The que to send in the Gumby is...slow moving to say the least.  I’ve been in it about three months and have moved from 79 to 35.  I’m currently using an eitr, and this length of time has me questioning if it’s worth it.


----------



## artur9

duranxv said:


> How does the Gungnir Multibit compare with some of the other well regarded R2R DACS from Denafrips (Ares/Pontus), Soekris or some of the new players out there like Musician?


Don't know the Musician.  

There are comparisons out there between Schiit's MB and Soekris and Denafrips.  I think Dick Olsher compared the Soekris to Schiit (absolute sound writer).


----------



## duranxv

artur9 said:


> Don't know the Musician.
> 
> There are comparisons out there between Schiit's MB and Soekris and Denafrips.  I think Dick Olsher compared the Soekris to Schiit (absolute sound writer).



I don't recall seeing that.  Do you have a link to that review?


----------



## artur9

duranxv said:


> I don't recall seeing that.  Do you have a link to that review?


Comparison against Yggdrasil: https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/soekris-dac1421-dac


----------



## LCMusicLover

duranxv said:


> How does the Gungnir Multibit compare with some of the other well regarded R2R DACS from Denafrips (Ares/Pontus), Soekris or some of the new players out there like Musician?


I’ve owned Ares & Pontus (both v1, not v2). In addition, I just participated in a Soekris 2541 loaner.

I was trying to create a chain to ‘soften’ my Utopia. Ares did that, but to my ears, ‘cost’ too much detail. Pontus was much better, and it was my main DAC for over a year before I got an A2 Gumby.

Here’s something I wrote a while ago regarding Pontus vs Gumby. It’s a bit convoluted, ‘cuz it started as a cable comparison, but ended up also being a DAC comparison:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-utopia-general-discussion.811273/post-15402529

Meanwhile, I wrote this _elsewhere_ regarding 2541 vs Gumby:

_To me, 2541 & Gungnir Multibit were close to identical. Tonality was nearly indistinguishable. Imaging/stage exhibited bigger differences. But the differences seemed to vary by track— thus I cannot provide a definitive comparison._


----------



## macdonjh

DenverW said:


> Has anyone done the upgrade to the unison usb?  The que to send in the Gumby is...slow moving to say the least.  I’ve been in it about three months and have moved from 79 to 35.  I’m currently using an eitr, and this length of time has me questioning if it’s worth it.


I'm the the queue as well; approximately where you were three months ago.  I figure I'll get the MB and Unison modifications at the same time as long as it's in CA.  Of course, if the rate of upgrade completions holds steady, I have eight months to change my mind.


----------



## duranxv

LCMusicLover said:


> I’ve owned Ares & Pontus (both v1, not v2). In addition, I just participated in a Soekris 2541 loaner.
> 
> I was trying to create a chain to ‘soften’ my Utopia. Ares did that, but to my ears, ‘cost’ too much detail. Pontus was much better, and it was my main DAC for over a year before I got an A2 Gumby.
> 
> ...



So basically you liked the Gumby more than the Pontus if I understand correctly? 

Thanks!


----------



## LCMusicLover

duranxv said:


> So basically you liked the Gumby more than the Pontus if I understand correctly?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, but it certainly wasn't 'night-and-day'. Depended on the rest of the chain (obviously) and the material I was listening to (also obvious). Of course, now I wonder what I would think about Pontus II vs Gumby.  

As a side-note, let me mention that I also had an A2 Yggy for a while.  And honestly, while I could hear some differences between Yggy & Gumby, I'm not sure I heard anything I could call a hard preference.  All the _knowledgeable_ folks I've mentioned this to say that I would have heard more difference from a two channel system, while I'm firmly embedded in Headphone World. 

Point is, my 'barely distinguishable' might be someone else's 'significant difference'.  Just sayin'


----------



## macdonjh

LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, but it certainly wasn't 'night-and-day'. Depended on the rest of the chain (obviously) and the material I was listening to (also obvious). Of course, now I wonder what I would think about Pontus II vs Gumby.
> 
> As a side-note, let me mention that I also had an A2 Yggy for a while.  And honestly, while I could hear some differences between Yggy & Gumby, I'm not sure I heard anything I could call a hard preference.  All the _knowledgeable_ folks I've mentioned this to say that I would have heard more difference from a two channel system, while I'm firmly embedded in Headphone World.
> 
> Point is, my 'barely distinguishable' might be someone else's 'significant difference'.  Just sayin'


After reading many posts about the Yggdrassil, your notes above summarize what I read also and formed the basis of my wanting to try the Gungnir multi-bit over the Yggdrasil (even the GS).  What I'd read is the Yggdrasil tops the Gungnir in imaging, spaciousness and instrument separation.  The first two qualities I hardly ever listen for when I use head phones, so I don't think the additional cost would be worthwhile to me.  

What I'll be considering for the next few months while I'm in the queue is if the additional money to convert my Gungnir from delta-sigma to multi-bit is worthwhile.  I really like my Bifrost, will the Gungnir be that much better?  I really need to bring my Bifrost back into my bedroom system so I can listen to both during the same evening.


----------



## duranxv

LCMusicLover said:


> Yes, but it certainly wasn't 'night-and-day'. Depended on the rest of the chain (obviously) and the material I was listening to (also obvious). Of course, now I wonder what I would think about Pontus II vs Gumby.
> 
> As a side-note, let me mention that I also had an A2 Yggy for a while.  And honestly, while I could hear some differences between Yggy & Gumby, I'm not sure I heard anything I could call a hard preference.  All the _knowledgeable_ folks I've mentioned this to say that I would have heard more difference from a two channel system, while I'm firmly embedded in Headphone World.
> 
> Point is, my 'barely distinguishable' might be someone else's 'significant difference'.  Just sayin'



Yeah, I'm wondering if the Pontus II provides any meaningful upgrade over the Pontus I


----------



## lexx510

macdonjh said:


> After reading many posts about the Yggdrassil, your notes above summarize what I read also and formed the basis of my wanting to try the Gungnir multi-bit over the Yggdrasil (even the GS).  What I'd read is the Yggdrasil tops the Gungnir in imaging, spaciousness and instrument separation.  The first two qualities I hardly ever listen for when I use head phones, so I don't think the additional cost would be worthwhile to me.
> 
> What I'll be considering for the next few months while I'm in the queue is if the additional money to convert my Gungnir from delta-sigma to multi-bit is worthwhile.  I really like my Bifrost, will the Gungnir be that much better?  I really need to bring my Bifrost back into my bedroom system so I can listen to both during the same evening.


I recently upgraded from my Bifrost MB Gen 5 USB to Gungnir MB Unison and the two are very close.


----------



## hodgjy

macdonjh said:


> After reading many posts about the Yggdrassil, your notes above summarize what I read also and formed the basis of my wanting to try the Gungnir multi-bit over the Yggdrasil (even the GS).  What I'd read is the Yggdrasil tops the Gungnir in imaging, spaciousness and instrument separation.  The first two qualities I hardly ever listen for when I use head phones, so I don't think the additional cost would be worthwhile to me.
> 
> *What I'll be considering for the next few months while I'm in the queue is if the additional money to convert my Gungnir from delta-sigma to multi-bit is worthwhile. * I really like my Bifrost, will the Gungnir be that much better?  I really need to bring my Bifrost back into my bedroom system so I can listen to both during the same evening.


If you like the DS Gungnir, which is known to sound a little dark, you may not like the MB Gungnir because the newer A2 version of it has been called "bleached" by many who have extensively reviewed it. If you want to upgrade, but want to retain some of the darkness, you're probably better served with the Bifrost 2 or Yggy A2.


----------



## senorx12562

hodgjy said:


> If you like the DS Gungnir, which is known to sound a little dark, you may not like the MB Gungnir because the newer A2 version of it has been called "bleached" by many who have extensively reviewed it. If you want to upgrade, but want to retain some of the darkness, you're probably better served with the Bifrost 2 or Yggy A2.


I've never been sure what is meant by "bleached" in this context, but apparently I like it.


----------



## hodgjy (Jun 4, 2021)

senorx12562 said:


> I've never been sure what is meant by "bleached" in this context, but apparently I like it.


Dry/cold/brittle/square/stiff, etc. Not as liquid and holographic as the A1.


----------



## LCMusicLover

hodgjy said:


> Dry/brittle/square/stiff, etc. Not as liquid and holographic as the A1.


I own both (A1 & A2) -- can barely tell them apart from an A/B.  My pre-amp allows me to switch DACs with a button click.  And I can split the optical out from my mScaler to feed both simultaneously.  So literally, the only thing that changes is the DAC (even the same analog cables from DAC to pre-amp). 

I'm 'headphones-only', so there may be differences 2-channel listeners hear that I miss, but that is more likely to be imaging (your holography), not tonality (your dry/brittle/stiff). I certainly don't hear a significant bright/dark difference.

(amusingly, the reason I own both is that I got the A2, liked it, succumbed to curiosity, found a good deal on an A1, and now can't decide which I prefer so I can sell the other)


----------



## senorx12562

LCMusicLover said:


> I own both (A1 & A2) -- can barely tell them apart from an A/B.  My pre-amp allows me to switch DACs with a button click.  And I can split the optical out from my mScaler to feed both simultaneously.  So literally, the only thing that changes is the DAC (even the same analog cables from DAC to pre-amp).
> 
> I'm 'headphones-only', so there may be differences 2-channel listeners hear that I miss, but that is more likely to be imaging (your holography), not tonality (your dry/brittle/stiff). I certainly don't hear a significant bright/dark difference.
> 
> (amusingly, the reason I own both is that I got the A2, liked it, succumbed to curiosity, found a good deal on an A1, and now can't decide which I prefer so I can sell the other)


I have never heard the A1, but my A2 is the one bit of gear I own that I have that I have never thought of upgrading. Of course this is an utterly subjective opinion, and may be influenced by the reality that I couldn't afford to even if I wanted to, but there you go.


----------



## lexx510

senorx12562 said:


> I've never been sure what is meant by "bleached" in this context, but apparently I like it.


How would one know if they have the A1 or A2 bleached version?  And is there an A2 that is not bleach free?


----------



## duranxv

Now with the new Bifrost 2, how does it compare vs. the Gumby and Yggdrasil?


----------



## lexx510

duranxv said:


> Now with the new Bifrost 2, how does it compare vs. the Gumby and Yggdrasil?


From the reviews I've seen on YT, it's very close to the Gumby. Heck, even my Bifrost 1 MB w/ GEN 5 usb sounds very close to my Gumby Unison.


----------



## Rowethren

Sorry if this is a stupid question but if I get a 75ohm RCA to BNC cable can I connect an RCA coax source to my Gungnir BNC input without any negative consequences?


----------



## G0rt

Rowethren said:


> Sorry if this is a stupid question but if I get a 75ohm RCA to BNC cable can I connect an RCA coax source to my Gungnir BNC input without any negative consequences?


Yup. I do. Minimal reflections.


----------



## Charente

Rowethren said:


> Sorry if this is a stupid question but if I get a 75ohm RCA to BNC cable can I connect an RCA coax source to my Gungnir BNC input without any negative consequences?


Yes, I have done the same for a while now ... IMO the SQ is better, albeit not by a large margin to my ears.


----------



## artur9

Charente said:


> Yes, I have done the same for a while now ... IMO the SQ is better, albeit not by a large margin to my ears.


I like the better connection the BNC provides.

I've also used an RCA<->BNC adapter with good effect.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola folks,

Soooo..... I sold my BF2 and have a Gumby A2 gen5 headed my way and officially joined the Gumby club. 
Parted with the BF2 due to its non compatible stacking capabilities with my MJ2. It just didn't fit properly in my limited space for listening. 

Comparisons between the BF2 and gumby a2 gen 5 are all over the place so I'll be happy if the gumby is on par with the BF2 lol. Now I can put my OCD to rest knowing my dac can sit perfectly under the MJ2. Lol.

Cheers!


----------



## lexx510

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks,
> 
> Soooo..... I sold my BF2 and have a Gumby A2 gen5 headed my way and officially joined the Gumby club.
> Parted with the BF2 due to its non compatible stacking capabilities with my MJ2. It just didn't fit properly in my limited space for listening.
> ...


That's funny. That's kind of the reason I upgraded from my Bifrost to the Gumby as well. I have a Freya + and the Bifrost didn't stack well with the Freya, lol. I was happy with the sound quality other wise!


----------



## Guidostrunk

lexx510 said:


> That's funny. That's kind of the reason I upgraded from my Bifrost to the Gumby as well. I have a Freya + and the Bifrost didn't stack well with the Freya, lol. I was happy with the sound quality other wise!


Yeah I agree. The bifrost 2 sounds fantastic. Lol.


----------



## TK16

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks,
> 
> Soooo..... I sold my BF2 and have a Gumby A2 gen5 headed my way and officially joined the Gumby club.
> Parted with the BF2 due to its non compatible stacking capabilities with my MJ2. It just didn't fit properly in my limited space for listening.
> ...


Welcome to the Gumby family bro. Fantastic pairing with the MJ2.


----------



## Guidostrunk

TK16 said:


> Welcome to the Gumby family bro. Fantastic pairing with the MJ2.


It had to be done bro. I had to put the BF2 in between my laptop and MJ2 and it was way too cluttered lol.


----------



## lexx510

Guidostrunk said:


> It had to be done bro. I had to put the BF2 in between my laptop and MJ2 and it was way too cluttered lol.


----------



## Charente (Jun 8, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks,
> 
> Soooo..... I sold my BF2 and have a Gumby A2 gen5 headed my way and officially joined the Gumby club.
> Parted with the BF2 due to its non compatible stacking capabilities with my MJ2. It just didn't fit properly in my limited space for listening.
> ...


Kinda contra to Schiit's reason for discontinuing the Mjolnir ... the non-desktop friendly form factor. It matches the Gungnir perfectly ... I have my two stacked on a side table rather than on the desktop. Unless the Gungnir is due for the chop as well !!


----------



## RCBinTN (Jun 9, 2021)

No ... Jason reports that the Gungnir is not on the chopping block.

My personal DAC journey started with an Uber-Bifrost (in the pre-MB days - Uber meant it had USB) then went to Gungnir then Gungnir MB. I also went with the Mjolnir 1 amp, so the stack worked. Have moved on from the Mjolnir but kept the Gungnir MB because it sounds so damn good and the Yggy is too big for my space. I originally went with the Gungnir because I like the idea of a fully hardware-balanced design. BiFrost2 does not have that, but its modular design is ground breaking, for sure. To me, Schiit is on the cutting edge of affordable DAC design. FWIW, friends ... rock on!


----------



## Guidostrunk

RCBinTN said:


> No ... Jason reports that the Gungnir is not on the chopping block.
> 
> My perosnal DAC journey started with an Uber-Bifrost (in the pre-MB days - Uber meant it had USB) then went to Gungnir then Gungnir MB. I also went with the Mjolnir 1 amp, so the stack worked. Have moved on from the Mjolnir but kept the Gungnir MB because it sounds so damn good and the Yggy is too big for my space. I originally went with the Gungnir because I like the idea of a fully hardware-balanced design. BiFrost2 does not have that, but its modular design is ground breaking, for sure. To me, Schiit is on the cutting edge of affordable DAC design. FWIW, friends ... rock on!


I read so many threads , and so many comparisons between the BF2 and Gumby. I literally thought I'd be involved in a really critical listening session because of what i gathered as a consensus. 
The Gumby is on a completely different level than the BF2! I've read so many posts that put them a lot closer in performance lol. They are not that close. 
Don't get me wrong. The BF2 is a great dac but it's no Gumby!


----------



## hodgjy

Eh, my stance on DACs has changed over the years. While I can hear differences between them, and I definitely have a preferred sound signature, most of us tend to greatly, and I mean greatly, over-exaggerate the differences between them. I've heard many DACs, including owning several of the Schiits, and I'll honestly say the differences between them are small. It all comes down to how much you're willing to pay for that last couple of percentage points of improvement. Plus, I've also come to the conclusion that the differences in DACs are most pronounced in very revealing speaker systems; the differences are greatly minimized while using head-fi systems, even top-tier ones.


----------



## senorx12562

artur9 said:


> I like the better connection the BNC provides.
> 
> I've also used an RCA<->BNC adapter with good effect.


I do this just to have 2 rca inputs.


----------



## RCBinTN

Guidostrunk said:


> I read so many threads , and so many comparisons between the BF2 and Gumby. I literally thought I'd be involved in a really critical listening session because of what i gathered as a consensus.
> The Gumby is on a completely different level than the BF2! I've read so many posts that put them a lot closer in performance lol. They are not that close.
> Don't get me wrong. The BF2 is a great dac but it's no Gumby!


I agree with what @hodgjy wrote above, for starters.

My game-changer for SQ was moving from Gungnir DS to MB. It was like flipping "on" the great sound switch. I, too, have preferences and mine is toward neutral not warmer sound. That's what I like about the Schiit MB sound ... it seems to be neutral to me. 

So, @Guidostrunk have you heard both the Gungnir MB and the BiFrost2? Just asking, mate. My one data point on that question is from @MattTCG who has heard "everything" on the planet that's worth listening to. Matt wrote that the BF2 beats the SQ of the Gungnir MB. That comment meant something to me. I don't know if you're still active on HF, Matt, so thanks in advance for permitting me to reference you!

Net ... it's a subjective thing and personal, especially with headphones. It is not easy to just say that XXYY is "the best." It comes down to preferences, other gear, music genres, and etc.

I will stay where I am, until my Gumby A2/Gen5 croaks. Then, depending on what's out there, I will likely order a Gumby with Unison. I understand that Unison beats Gen5 USB by a wide margin.

Happy Listening!
RCB


----------



## Guidostrunk

RCBinTN said:


> I agree with what @hodgjy wrote above, for starters.
> 
> My game-changer for SQ was moving from Gungnir DS to MB. It was like flipping "on" the great sound switch. I, too, have preferences and mine is toward neutral not warmer sound. That's what I like about the Schiit MB sound ... it seems to be neutral to me.
> 
> ...


Funny you mention @MattTCG  because I bought my BF2 from him. 😂😂😂
I know this whole thing is subjective bro. We all hear things differently. To my ears, and with my rig. The Gumby is superior.


----------



## Guidostrunk (Jun 10, 2021)

Guidostrunk said:


> Funny you mention @MattTCG  because I bought my BF2 from him. 😂😂😂
> I know this whole thing is subjective bro. We all hear things differently. To my ears, and with my rig. The Gumby is superior.


And yes I've had the BF2 for the last 4 months. Only sold it due to space compatibility issues.


----------



## duranxv

Guidostrunk said:


> I read so many threads , and so many comparisons between the BF2 and Gumby. I literally thought I'd be involved in a really critical listening session because of what i gathered as a consensus.
> The Gumby is on a completely different level than the BF2! I've read so many posts that put them a lot closer in performance lol. They are not that close.
> Don't get me wrong. The BF2 is a great dac but it's no Gumby!



I guess the question is how much of a difference is it going from Gumby to Yggdrasil?


----------



## Guidostrunk

duranxv said:


> I guess the question is how much of a difference is it going from Gumby to Yggdrasil?


Yep. I'm thinking the same thing lol.


----------



## hodgjy

duranxv said:


> I guess the question is how much of a difference is it going from Gumby to Yggdrasil?


Their analog stages are voiced differently in that the current Yggy is warmer and the current Gumby is a tad drier and cooler. As far as sheer detail retrieval, your speakers or headphones probably will fail to resolve any differences, should any actually exist.


----------



## macdonjh (Apr 22, 2022)

hodgjy said:


> Eh, my stance on DACs has changed over the years. While I can hear differences between them, and I definitely have a preferred sound signature, most of us tend to greatly, and I mean greatly, over-exaggerate the differences between them. I've heard many DACs, including owning several of the Schiits, and I'll honestly say the differences between them are small. It all comes down to how much you're willing to pay for that last couple of percentage points of improvement. Plus, I've also come to the conclusion that the differences in DACs are most pronounced in very revealing speaker systems; the differences are greatly minimized while using head-fi systems, even top-tier ones.


I understand what you're saying.  I agree, to a point.  Most of the Head-fi members I've traded posts with agree we all use "big" and strong words to describe the differences in sound between the components we use.  But it gets kind of boring and redundant saying "marginally", "slightly", "a little bit", etc.  More importantly, I think we use those big, strong words not to describe the "magnitude" of the differences, but rather how important those differences are in our reaction to, or enjoyment of, what we're listening to.  A bit more:

I've changed the way I think about the small differences in sound we all know exist.  First, I realize these differences are only important to hobbyists.  I think most people out there don't care about sound quality, only that there is sound.  My wife is like that.  If she can hear her music on the speaker in her phone, she's happy.  There are a few folks out there who want good quality sound, but don't care about the differences between otherwise competent gear.  Good sound is good sound.  Then there are us...  My new way of looking at these differences is not about whether these differences represent a 1% or 10% improvement or whether the improvement is worth $1 or $10.  I now look at these differences as whether or not they are important to our enjoyment of the music we listen to.  So if you like your sound bright and analytical, a DAC (or head phone or speaker, etc.) which is a bit brighter than what you have might be an improvement for you, so might be worth paying for.  The difference I see is the "magnitude" of the change doesn't much matter, that it's there is what matters and that it brings someone closer to the sound he's after.

To me, this also somewhat explains where the market for some of these uber-expensive components originates.  As we listen more, we get better at hearing the differences between components as well as better at defining and quantifying what we like and what we want.  Gear with resolution great enough to be differentiated by trained listeners comes at a cost and at a certain level some of us are willing to pay for the differences or changes we're after.

OK, now for why that's relevant to this thread.  I have both a Bifrost I multi-bit and a Gungnir delta-sigma.  I am currently using my time in the multi-bit queue to try to decide if I want to spend my money to get a Gungnir MB, or sell my Gungnir DS and just keep my Bifrost MB.  I the early days of my time with the Gungnir I have the impression the mids and highs are smoother and more refined than what I hear from my Bifrost.  Enough so I am currently listening to my Gungnir exclusively.  However, overall bass impact is stronger in my memory of my Bifrost's sound than what I hear in the Gungnir (though definition and detail from the Gungnir is better than my memory of the Bifrost).  Eventually I'll have to listen to my Bifrost again  to see if the difference is real.  What I've said here and elsewhere is, "if I can get Bifrost bass impact without losing the detail and refinement of the Gungnir, then sign me up for the Gungnir MB".  While all these differences and changes could only be described as incremental on any "objective" scale, they'd be important to me, and I'd consider them worth the price of the new MB board.  Others would have a different analysis.

Fingers crossed.  Oh, and sorry for the long, rambling post.


----------



## artur9

macdonjh said:


> ....
> I've changed the way I think about the small differences in sound we all know exist.  ...  I now look at these differences as whether or not they are important to our enjoyment of the music we listen to.  ...
> 
> ... As we listen more, we get better at hearing the differences between components as well as better at defining and quantifying what we like and what we want.  ...


Great post, not rambling at all.

The main difference amongst DACs that I've experienced is that some are just not pleasant to listen to over a long period of time (say, hours).  They irritate.  They add a kind of buzz to the sound that most non-audiophile seem to tolerate.

Then there are the details revealed by the DAC.  For that, all the other components need to be able to keep up and, in most non-audiophile environments, they just can't.  And I mean real musical details, not the fake details created by DACS built on top of ESS Sabre.  Like being able to tell the difference between Mutter's violin and Bell's violin.


----------



## RCBinTN

hodgjy said:


> Their analog stages are voiced differently in that the current Yggy is warmer and the current Gumby is a tad drier and cooler. As far as sheer detail retrieval, your speakers or headphones probably will fail to resolve any differences, should any actually exist.


I hadn't heard that description. I remember a few years ago (maybe pre-A2) the voices were reversed and Gumby was warmer than Yggy. I think that description came from Jason Stoddard. So, interesting. 



Guidostrunk said:


> Funny you mention @MattTCG  because I bought my BF2 from him. 😂😂😂
> I know this whole thing is subjective bro. We all hear things differently. To my ears, and with my rig. The Gumby is superior.


Well darn it ... since Matt sold his BF2 then maybe he's out of the hobby altogether now. He used to come up from Atlanta to join the Nashville HP meets, back in the mid 2010s.


----------



## hodgjy

RCBinTN said:


> I hadn't heard that description. I remember a few years ago (maybe pre-A2) the voices were reversed and Gumby was warmer than Yggy. I think that description came from Jason Stoddard. So, interesting.


Yggy A1 was a bit cool and Gumby A1 was a bit warm when they were directly compared to each other. That reversed with the A2 versions of both. Now the used market for Gumby A1 is strong but not so much for the Yggy A1.


----------



## LCMusicLover

duranxv said:


> I guess the question is how much of a difference is it going from Gumby to Yggdrasil?


To my ears, going from an A2 Gumby to an A2 Yggy was a slight, marginal difference.  I ended up selling the Yggy because I didn't really hear anything I preferred enough from the Yggy to justify the price difference.  Many 'knowledgeable' folks have mentioned that I might hear a bigger difference from a 2-channel system, but I'm 'headphones only'.

As an aside, after selling the Yggy, I ended up purchasing a used A1 Gumby.  Both are in my system now, and I keep meaning to decide which one to sell, but can't find a significant differentiator. 



macdonjh said:


> I understand what you're saying.  I agree, to a point.  Most of the Head-fi members I've traded posts with agree we all use "big" and strong words to describe the differences in sound between the components we use.  But it gets kind of boring and redundant saying "marginally", "slightly", "a little bit", etc.  More importantly, I think we use those big, strong words not to describe the "magnitude" of the differences, but rather how important those differences are in our reaction to, or enjoyment of, what we're listening to.  A bit more:
> 
> ... I now look at these differences as whether or not they are important to our enjoyment of the music we listen to.  So if you like your sound bright and analytical, a DAC (or head phone or speaker, etc.) which is a bit brighter than what you have might be an improvement for you, so might be worth paying for.  The difference I see is the "magnitude" of the change doesn't much matter, that it's there is what matters and that it brings someone closer to the sound he's after.
> 
> ... As we listen more, we get better at hearing the differences between components as well as better at defining and quantifying what we like and what we want.  Gear with resolution great enough to be differentiated by trained listeners comes at a cost and at a certain level some of us are willing to pay for the differences or changes we're after.


Really well put.  I'm one of those boring folks who constantly minimizes the differences I describe -- I use words like 'slightly' 'somewhat' and 'a bit' all the time.  Because that's what I hear, small differences.

But at the same time, some of those small differences make a huge difference to my enjoyment. Hence the mScaler/TT2 stack


----------



## macdonjh

LCMusicLover said:


> Really well put.  I'm one of those boring folks who constantly minimizes the differences I describe -- I use words like 'slightly' 'somewhat' and 'a bit' all the time.  Because that's what I hear, small differences.
> 
> But at the same time, some of those small differences make a huge difference to my enjoyment. Hence the mScaler/TT2 stack


In my recent reviews (or thread posts which are "review like") I also use words like "slightly" and "somewhat".  Whatever I review or post about next will also have some kind of statement about whether or not a difference I try to describe is important to me and why (I hate it when reviewers leave out the "why I like/ don't like this aspect").  

Yeah, small changes in sound making large changes in listening enjoyment is what separates hobbyists from everyone else, I think.


----------



## Ableza

I own both a Gungnir MB and Yggdrasil.  The Gungnir is A1, the Yggdrasil A2 + Unison.  The difference is notable, in that the Yggdrasil is more detailed and accurate sounding.  I preferred it via USB in my headphone system and the Gungnir in my HT for music purposes (using S/PDIF input.)  YMMV


----------



## Charente (Jun 10, 2021)

Ableza said:


> I own both a Gungnir MB and Yggdrasil.  The Gungnir is A1, the Yggdrasil A2 + Unison.  The difference is notable, in that the Yggdrasil is more detailed and accurate sounding.  I preferred it via USB in my headphone system and the Gungnir in my HT for music purposes (using S/PDIF input.)  YMMV


I wonder whether the difference that some hear is really just as much down to the difference between USB and S/PDIF inputs. I read somewhere that Unison trumps S/PDIF (maybe on HF, I can't remember now), although I haven't tried it. I'm purely S/PDIF now (BNC) and I personally wouldn't go back to USB  ... happy with the sound to my ears.


----------



## macdonjh

Charente said:


> I wonder whether the difference that some hear is really just as much down to the difference between USB and S/PDIF inputs. I read somewhere that Unison trumps S/PDIF (maybe on HF, I can't remember now), although I haven't tried it. I'm purely S/PDIF now (BNC) and I personally wouldn't go back to USB  ... happy with the sound to my ears.


Certainly one of the many variables.


----------



## duranxv

LCMusicLover said:


> To my ears, going from an A2 Gumby to an A2 Yggy was a slight, marginal difference.  I ended up selling the Yggy because I didn't really hear anything I preferred enough from the Yggy to justify the price difference.  Many 'knowledgeable' folks have mentioned that I might hear a bigger difference from a 2-channel system, but I'm 'headphones only'.
> 
> As an aside, after selling the Yggy, I ended up purchasing a used A1 Gumby.  Both are in my system now, and I keep meaning to decide which one to sell, but can't find a significant differentiator.
> 
> ...



That's an interesting point.  I too am headphones only. I don't plan to use the DAC for a speaker system


----------



## macdonjh

duranxv said:


> That's an interesting point.  I too am headphones only. I don't plan to use the DAC for a speaker system


For purposes of this discussion, I too, am head phone only.  However, I keep saying I will one day put my Bifrost and/ or Gungnir into my living room system to see if I hear any difference compared to the DACs I currently use there (multi-channel system).


----------



## MtRainierJohn (Jun 11, 2021)

It can be a really small difference between really, really excellent and exquisite.  Some people can't hear the difference, but if you can, then that small, small difference can push the sound quality over into the sublime.  Even possibly into a religious experience.


----------



## duranxv

Thanks everyone for the input!  It looks like it'll be a Gumby for me.  Saves me 1200 bucks, haha.  I can't justify paying 100% more for a Yggdrasil if the incremental difference in terms of sound quality/sound signature is like only 5%, especially on a headphone only set-up.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Does anyone know what the current turn around time is for the Unison USB is? Was thinking of sending my gumby in to get it. 
Also , to whom who've had it done. How much of a difference is there?


----------



## hodgjy

duranxv said:


> Thanks everyone for the input!  It looks like it'll be a Gumby for me.  Saves me 1200 bucks, haha.  I can't justify paying 100% more for a Yggdrasil if the incremental difference in terms of sound quality/sound signature is like only 5%, especially on a headphone only set-up.


Another added bonus is the Gumby only takes 6 hours to fully warm up to its best sound from a cold power on, whereas the Yggy still takes several days.


----------



## macdonjh

MtRainierJohn said:


> It can be a really small difference between really, really excellent and exquisite.  Some people can't hear the difference, but if you can, then that small, small difference can push the sound quality over into the sublime.  Even possibly into a religious experience.


On a somewhat related theme: I also have come to believe (partly because I see myself doing this) many people climb the price ladder also because that next piece of gear isn't "that much more expensive than what I have now".  Kind of like, "well, I'm already in this deep, the Miracle DAC doesn't dig that hole much deeper".  One other way to put it: the value of the different sounds isn't judged in relation to the difference in cost between say the new price of a Modi and an Yggrdasil, but the difference in cost between the DAC I've already paid for and the DAC I am considering buying.  In my debate about whether to spend my money on a Gungnir multibit or not, I haven't really considered just selling both my Bifrost multibit and my Gungnir and just buying a Modi.  The Modi changes bits to waves, too, right?  Changing my Gungnir costs me a few hundred dollars, selling both and buying a Modi brings me a few hundred dollars.  But I don't need to do that, and Gungnir multibit is just a bit more than I've already spent, so that's OK, right? 



Guidostrunk said:


> Does anyone know what the current turn around time is for the Unison USB is? Was thinking of sending my gumby in to get it.
> Also , to whom who've had it done. How much of a difference is there?


Another question: can the change to Unison be done at home (buy the board and install it yourself)?


----------



## Guidostrunk

macdonjh said:


> On a somewhat related theme: I also have come to believe (partly because I see myself doing this) many people climb the price ladder also because that next piece of gear isn't "that much more expensive than what I have now".  Kind of like, "well, I'm already in this deep, the Miracle DAC doesn't dig that hole much deeper".  One other way to put it: the value of the different sounds isn't judged in relation to the difference in cost between say the new price of a Modi and an Yggrdasil, but the difference in cost between the DAC I've already paid for and the DAC I am considering buying.  In my debate about whether to spend my money on a Gungnir multibit or not, I haven't really considered just selling both my Bifrost multibit and my Gungnir and just buying a Modi.  The Modi changes bits to waves, too, right?  Changing my Gungnir costs me a few hundred dollars, selling both and buying a Modi brings me a few hundred dollars.  But I don't need to do that, and Gungnir multibit is just a bit more than I've already spent, so that's OK, right?
> 
> 
> Another question: can the change to Unison be done at home (buy the board and install it yourself)?


From what I gather , you have to send the gumby in. BF2 and Yggy you dont.


----------



## dumpsterfire

macdonjh said:


> Another question: can the change to Unison be done at home (buy the board and install it yourself)?


No, the Gungnir requires a firmware upgrade that can only be done at Schiit.


----------



## macdonjh

Guidostrunk said:


> From what I gather , you have to send the gumby in. BF2 and Yggy you dont.





dumpsterfire said:


> No, the Gungnir requires a firmware upgrade that can only be done at Schiit.


I appreciate your help.


----------



## Brubacca

Guidostrunk said:


> Does anyone know what the current turn around time is for the Unison USB is? Was thinking of sending my gumby in to get it.
> Also , to whom who've had it done. How much of a difference is there?


I had my Gumby A1 upgraded to Unison. Process went well and it has been working great. It's been too long to quantify how much better and detail it. Best I can say is that it was money well spent. I had original USB and had skipped Gen 5 upgrade.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Brubacca said:


> I had my Gumby A1 upgraded to Unison. Process went well and it has been working great. It's been too long to quantify how much better and detail it. Best I can say is that it was money well spent. I had original USB and had skipped Gen 5 upgrade.


Thanks for your response bro!


----------



## duranxv

Is there any noticeable difference in sound quality/signature between the RCA and XLR outputs on the Gumby?  I'm planning to pair it with a Sparkos Aries amp, which is a single-ended amp.  It does have XLR inputs, but the RCA inputs are recommended.


----------



## G0rt

duranxv said:


> Is there any noticeable difference in sound quality/signature between the RCA and XLR outputs on the Gumby?  I'm planning to pair it with a Sparkos Aries amp, which is a single-ended amp.  It does have XLR inputs, but the RCA inputs are recommended.


I use both, balanced to Mjolnir2, SE to Lyr3 & Asgard3.

For me, Mjolnir2 balanced out usually sounds best, depending, but variety is nice. 

Mjolnir2 SE out is summed, like Gumby SE out, so overall not much to choose.

Try both.


----------



## hodgjy

duranxv said:


> Is there any noticeable difference in sound quality/signature between the RCA and XLR outputs on the Gumby?  I'm planning to pair it with a Sparkos Aries amp, which is a single-ended amp.  It does have XLR inputs, but the RCA inputs are recommended.


For me, mostly in noise floor. Unbalanced has a higher one.


----------



## npfries

I’m upgrading to balanced dac soon from Modi MB, thinking of going Gungnir MB or Yggy (gen 3 USB) because I can find both for the same price. Any thoughts on which one is likely better value?


----------



## rkw

npfries said:


> I’m upgrading to balanced dac soon from Modi MB, thinking of going Gungnir MB or Yggy (gen 3 USB) because I can find both for the same price. Any thoughts on which one is likely better value?


What is the rest of your system? Will you be using USB input? Also if it's a used Gungnir there are different versions of USB card.


----------



## npfries

rkw said:


> What is the rest of your system? Will you be using USB input? Also if it's a used Gungnir there are different versions of USB card.


This will be used with a Ragnarok v1, and no I won’t be using USB generally


----------



## duranxv

Out of curiosity, has anyone compared the Bifrost 2 to the Gumby MB using headphones and pairing it with a single-ended amp?  Been hearing that the Bifrost 2 does better than the Gumby when it comes to SE output.


----------



## hodgjy

duranxv said:


> Out of curiosity, has anyone compared the Bifrost 2 to the Gumby MB using headphones and pairing it with a single-ended amp?  Been hearing that the Bifrost 2 does better than the Gumby when it comes to SE output.


It really comes down to this: if your whole system is balanced and you’re trying to eke every last drop of improvement out of it, go Gungnir. If you are unbalanced, occasionally balanced, or balanced curious, go Bifrost.


----------



## duranxv

hodgjy said:


> It really comes down to this: if your whole system is balanced and you’re trying to eke every last drop of improvement out of it, go Gungnir. If you are unbalanced, occasionally balanced, or balanced curious, go Bifrost.



Haha "Balanced curious"    Thanks!


----------



## macdonjh

duranxv said:


> Haha "Balanced curious"    Thanks!


What if you're SE, but identify as balanced today.



Sorry, I couldn't resist.


----------



## DeadEars

The last few pages have been some of the better discussions of DAC nuance I can remember on this site.  Congrats to all participants.  I've been buried in the high-fidelity music jungle for more than 50 years.  Years ago I worked at a stereo store (remember those anyone?) where we sold high-end analog gear in a wealthy New York suburb.  After school, the hot chicks used to come in and browse LP's.  Music is/was an emotional experience, and the gear was simply a way to get in touch, so-to-speak.  I don't see guys hooking up with the fair sex today over DAC's.  Something lost, but something gained, maybe.  My gay nephew seems to find love in the audiophile crowd, so maybe I'm just behind the times.

On the serious side, after a certain age, the nuances become less important than how the music touches your soul.  After all, the musical events as recorded are never quite the real thing, so it's all happening in our heads.  Who is to say whether my illusion of the reality of the recorded event is any better than yours?  I know I can't live without it, but I'm finding I care mostly about emotional impact now rather than the clarity of the space between instruments, or the absolute reality of a drum head strike.


----------



## Archerious

Anyone have experience with their Gungnir not powering on?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Archerious said:


> Anyone have experience with their Gungnir not powering on?


Haven't had any issues yet. There is a fuse inside so it's possible it could be just that. That's the first thing I'd check


----------



## ruthieandjohn

I had that problem.   Had to send mine back to Schiit for repair.


----------



## DrewVz

So, is the Unison USB connection "just as good as" any of the coax/optical/BNC inputs?  My source right now is a laptop with limited outputs (USB, HDMI only).  Thanks.


----------



## macdonjh

I've moved into the top three quartiles in line for the upgrade.  At the rate the line is moving, I'll be able to tell you next year.  I hope the parts shortage resolves itself in our favor soon.


----------



## schneller

I know there is a chip shortage. I know about the supply chain problems. Despite this, you think Schiit could at least tease us with some Gungnir news.


Why is it the only Schiit DAC not yet available in black finish?
Will we be getting a Gungnir2? 
Will Schiit maybe try to create an "ultimate SE" DAC to go head-to-head in terms of SQ/size/form factor with the Chord Qutest?


----------



## SnowRang3r

schneller said:


> I know there is a chip shortage. I know about the supply chain problems. Despite this, you think Schiit could at least tease us with some Gungnir news.
> 
> 
> Why is it the only Schiit DAC not yet available in black finish?
> ...


If you watch the latest live streams there are some hints at future updates. 

Mike/Dave have been working on making the upscaling/filtering work in an FPGA instead of the Sharp DSP chips. 

They’re also experimenting with their own Delta-sigma to see if they can do better than the off the shelf designs out there. 

I’d also love to see a Gungnir2 with the Autonomy (field upgradable) functionality in Bifrost2, a remote and whatever other improvements they can do but I don’t think it’s their current top priority. Hopefully we see it one day


----------



## macdonjh (Jul 15, 2021)

SnowRang3r said:


> If you watch the latest live streams there are some hints at future updates.
> 
> Mike/Dave have been working on making the upscaling/filtering work in an FPGA instead of the Sharp DSP chips.
> 
> ...


I hope any major upgrades like that hit before my number in the multibit queue comes up...


----------



## macdonjh

I think I am finally beginning to understand the differences between my Bifrost multibit and Gungnir delta-sigma.  I'll have to reverse my initial impression the Bifrost has bigger bass than Gungnir.  At least tonight, Gungnir reached lower and played bass more forward than Bifrost.  Gungnir is also more controlled up top, Bifrost is splashy in comparison.  Gungnir also presents a smoother, more refined sound, perhaps that impression is created by the treble, but it extends throughout the frequency spectrum.

Bifrost, conversely, is more forward with vocals, with better articulation.  And now, here is where I have to leave the usual metaphors centered around spatial descriptions and colors.  Here is the hard thing to articulate: even with better detail retrieval and more control in the highs, Gungnir actually sounds a bit veiled compared to Bifrost.  I know that sounds like an oxymoron but: rather than thinking about these two as pieces of equipment I'll switch and describe them as two singers.  My wife is a fan of The Voice.  When I watch with her I sometimes hear singers who have skill, range, power, control.  There are others, though, who can really deliver the song, even if based on individual skills they're not as good as the former.  I think of the former as *singers*, the latter as *performers*.  The former have skills, the latter have stage presence.  

Extending this metaphor to electronics, the Gungnir delta-sigma is the skill-range-power-control performer: smoother, better detail retrieval, more control at least in the treble.  Bifrost is the performer: looser and more "open".  Getting back to our more typical adjectives: Gungnir might be more analytical, Bifrost more fun.  

For me, this all becomes important when I stop trying to listen for individual characteristics of each component's sound and start listening to the gestalt.  I'll admit, I often listen as much to the sound as the music, and I can get distracted when something in the sound seems off.  When everything comes together, I don't get distracted listening for things which are particularly right or a bit off.  

Bifrost multi-bit really impresses me with its overall sound as compared to the analog output from the DAPs I use.  Now that I have a Gungnir, I want that refined detail, too now.  So that's what I hope the multi-bit brings to Gungnir, if I ever get to the top of the queue: keep the deep bass and smooth refined control, but add the stage presence of Bifrost.  I hope Gungnir multi-bit lets go a bit and opens up.


----------



## macdonjh

Cross post: 

I broke up my test rig a few days ago: DAP -> Bifrost or Gungnir -> Mjolnir and brought my Gungnir DS out to the living room. So when I've had the time over the past few days I've had DAP -> Gungnir -> Sys -> Aegir -> Stax SR-Lambda. It's been a really enjoyable few days. The combination is quite smooth, with lots of detail and the nearly preternatural transient response of the Stax. The Aegir does a fine job energizing the electrostatic drivers. There is plenty of energy even for large-scale music. Bass is satisfying, vocals a a touch forward which makes them dramatic and easily understood, and the highs sparkly and bright.

I am still quite interested in the Gungnir multi-bit board (#77 of 105, no progress up the ladder for the past couple of days). As pleasant the the DS board is, I think I miss some of the bite of the Bifrost multi-bit. I like the extra detail retrieval, the extra finesse of the Gungnir, I am hopeful the multi-bit board moves the sound a bit to the analytical side. I'd like a little more "edge" to the sound.

Sooner rather than later, I'll have to bring my HE-500 out to the living room...


----------



## Mozbach

Relaxasaurus said:


> I was so curious about the differences between the BF2 and the Gumby that I got both and made a review about it. I absolutely love the Gumby and am sad I sold it! I posted this elsewhere but hope this helps people pick out the differences in sound between the two.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit- starts at 17:29



Hi,

Iv been contemplating adding a DAC to upgrade from the modi multibit im using presently in a stereo and HP setup. Im getting a 4 year old gumby (Gen5 USB MB) for about 150$ cheaper than a new BF2 direct from Schiit (have to import and incur heavy duties/taxes).  Would it be advisable to go for an old gumby over a new BF2. I only have the mimby for reference and both the BF2 & Gumby will be a blind purchase!

Happy to solicit your and others views.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Mozbach said:


> Hi,
> 
> Iv been contemplating adding a DAC to upgrade from the modi multibit im using presently in a stereo and HP setup. Im getting a 4 year old gumby (Gen5 USB MB) for about 150$ cheaper than a new BF2 direct from Schiit (have to import and incur heavy duties/taxes).  Would it be advisable to go for an old gumby over a new BF2. I only have the mimby for reference and both the BF2 & Gumby will be a blind purchase!
> 
> Happy to solicit your and others views.


The Gumby A2/gen5 imo is in a different league. I had both and sold the BF2. Initially I bought my gumby simply for stacking purposes for my Mjolnir 2. Everything I read before acquiring the gumby made it sound like they were really close in performance and some even said the BF2 did things better. 
My subjective opinion is the gumby is hands down the better dac.


----------



## Mozbach (Jul 24, 2021)

Super..+1 for the gumby..

Also heard/read that the Gumby works best in balanced set up and the SE being gimped isnt as resolving? Whereas read that BF2 doesnt have gimped output (i.e. both SE and BAL equally good). Im only using SE interconnects throughout my system.  Should that be a concern? Sorry but not that experienced in Hifi 
​@hodgjy - id consider myself to be 'balanced curious', especially since m eyeing a balanced HP amp. Apart from voltage output differences impacting gain, would balanced config. also impact quality of output (i.e. will i lose the plankton?  )


----------



## DrewVz (Jul 24, 2021)

Having just procured a Gumby A2/Unison and comparing it against my Bifrost2, there simply is no comparison. The Gumby is so much clearer, handles bass and sub-bass much better, with significantly better separation. The only thing I can say about the Bifrost2 is that it is warmer and *possibly* more relaxing to listen to as a result. But the Gumby is by far the better DAC. It's no contest.

I compared both using SE outputs, as my preamp isn't balanced. And the Gumby still trounced the Bifrost2. I was hesitant to buy the Gumby because I thought I was satisfied with the Bifrost2, but I'm glad I did. One of the best purchases I've made in hi-fi.


----------



## macdonjh

Mozbach said:


> Hi,
> 
> Iv been contemplating adding a DAC to upgrade from the modi multibit im using presently in a stereo and HP setup. Im getting a 4 year old gumby (Gen5 USB MB) for about 150$ cheaper than a new BF2 direct from Schiit (have to import and incur heavy duties/taxes).  Would it be advisable to go for an old gumby over a new BF2. I only have the mimby for reference and both the BF2 & Gumby will be a blind purchase!
> 
> Happy to solicit your and others views.


I'm a little farther down the road you are contemplating walking.  I've made a few posts in this thread recently about what I've been changing in my system...

I have a Bifrost I multi-bit, and bought a Gungnir delta-sigma because I've been curious for a couple of years about what you gain by climbing the ladder.  First off, I bought my Bifrost because I was initially curious about adding a DAC to my system.  I've always poo-pooed DACs as incremental changes at best.  I mean, bits are bits after all.  Adding Bifrost to my head phone system was an immediately noticeable change, for the better to me, in my system over just using the DAC in my DAPs.  I'd been frustrated by the lack of deep bass and bass slam, Bifrost cured that.  Resolution increased.  Overall timbre and presentation were more pleasing to me.  When listening to head phones I don't pay much attention to sound stage, so I won't comment about that.  Generally, everything was better with Bifrost.

Still, Gungnir, especially Gungnir multi-bit, had me curious.  I found a Gungnir delta-sigma for a decent price, so I jumped on it.  I simultaneously got in line for the multi-bit upgrade.  I've been listening to my Gungnir DS for several weeks now, sometimes in A/B comparison with my Bifrost.  I think the average person would find the sound pretty close together, but we notice things non-hobbyists don't, right?  I agree with @DrewVz, the differences between Gungnir and Bifrost are noticeable.  Immediately. With the DS version, bass is fuller, perhaps deeper, maybe set a little further back in the stage.  Vocals are usually a bit more forward which to my ear makes them a touch more dramatic and more intelligible.  Overall, from top-to-bottom detail retrieval is more complete, I can hear more going on.

What I still prefer about the Bifrost sound is a bit of extra bite in the sound.  The Gungnir DS is a little too smooth, a little too laid back for my taste.  While I enjoy listening to music with it very much, I sometimes miss the drive, the energy Bifrost provides with it's slightly more analytical sound.  The difference is very similar to what I heard when I got my Questyle QP2r DAP and started using it alongside my A&K AK70 Mk II.  The QP2r adds that same bit of drive and dynamism to music which makes it more engaging.  The A&K is great for Sunday afternoons, and for toning down objectionably bright or taming too-analytical IEMs, but that QP2r is great for "daily driving".

I hope the multi-bit board for the Gungnir gives me that without sacrificing all the smoothness (I know I have to give up some), detail and frequency response goodness I already have.  Fingers are crossed.


----------



## Mozbach

macdonjh said:


> I'm a little farther down the road you are contemplating walking.  I've made a few posts in this thread recently about what I've been changing in my system...
> 
> I have a Bifrost I multi-bit, and bought a Gungnir delta-sigma because I've been curious for a couple of years about what you gain by climbing the ladder.  First off, I bought my Bifrost because I was initially curious about adding a DAC to my system.  I've always poo-pooed DACs as incremental changes at best.  I mean, bits are bits after all.  Adding Bifrost to my head phone system was an immediately noticeable change, for the better to me, in my system over just using the DAC in my DAPs.  I'd been frustrated by the lack of deep bass and bass slam, Bifrost cured that.  Resolution increased.  Overall timbre and presentation were more pleasing to me.  When listening to head phones I don't pay much attention to sound stage, so I won't comment about that.  Generally, everything was better with Bifrost.
> 
> ...


Would be interesting to hear your views once u have the MB version running (instead of DS). Honestly I'd take musicality over precision any day and r2r/MB/Nos works better for me. Thanks for sharing that journey, it's these shared experiences that help the most in fig out things!


----------



## Mozbach

DrewVz said:


> Having just procured a Gumby A2/Unison and comparing it against my Bifrost2, there simply is no comparison. The Gumby is so much clearer, handles bass and sub-bass much better, with significantly better separation. The only thing I can say about the Bifrost2 is that it is warmer and *possibly* more relaxing to listen to as a result. But the Gumby is by far the better DAC. It's no contest.
> 
> I compared both using SE outputs, as my preamp isn't balanced. And the Gumby still trounced the Bifrost2. I was hesitant to buy the Gumby because I thought I was satisfied with the Bifrost2, but I'm glad I did. One of the best purchases I've made in hi-fi.


Thanks.. This is truly insightful.. Another nudge towards gumby.. Given il use the dac in main system (humble system, nothing to boast about) , the gains from gumby become more valuable.. For the HPs (sundara, HD6xx), mimby will be enough I guess. And when I get the upgrade itch, il just plug into the main system with gumby


----------



## DrewVz (Jul 24, 2021)

Let me also add that I've got tons of D-S DACs laying around after upgrading more times than I care to mention, and the difference between the SMSL M300 and the Bifrost2 ($250 vs $700) was much, much less than the difference between the Bifrost2 and the Gumby.  To me, the value proposition is actually in favor of the Gumby, even though it's the most expensive.

If I had it to do all over again, I think I would have stuck with the M300 and the Gumby for my 2 systems and not gone with the BF2. It's a great DAC, but in my opinion not enough of a benefit over the M300.  The Gumby is on another level entirely, IMO.


----------



## Mozbach (Jul 24, 2021)

DrewVz said:


> Let me also add that I've got tons of D-S DACs laying around after upgrading more times than I care to mention, and the difference between the SMSL M300 and the Bifrost2 ($250 vs $700) was much, much less than the difference between the Bifrost2 and the Gumby.  To me, the value proposition is actually in favor of the Gumby, even though it's the most expensive.
> 
> If I had it to do all over again, I think I would have stuck with the M300 and the Gumby for my 2 systems and not gone with the BF2. It's a great DAC, but in my opinion not enough of a benefit over the M300.  The Gumby is on another level entirely, IMO.


Quite right..

I opine (from my limited experience), I don't have a dedicated desktop headphone amp yet or even any high end HP. For a humble setup for HP use, the value prop of DS dacs is unbeatable. Switching from topping nx4 to mimby as the dac in the chain, the differences were subtle to pick out. I would guess that diff may be more apparent on the better headphones. But using the same dacs in a stereo system really opened my eyes to what a dedicated DAC 'can really do'. The difference being so real and better wrt seperation, resolution, layering. What really knocked my socks off was the soundstage and image presentation. That 3D/ holography aspect is my holy grail and the mimby opened up that path. This has now led me to explore better in the R2R dac space. Thanks to all FMs and their posts, the shortlisting became easier (between Schiit MB vs Soekris, Metrum, Denafrips). For HP set up, I can be happy with DS dacs and that synergy of DS and headphones works well, giving most of the details, stage, etc. within a limited physical/head space. Stepping up, for an enveloping experience (read beyond headspace, more palpable, felt experience), one seeks out a physical/3D analogue-ish presentation.
While the value proposition for DS is very encouraging, the musicality and realism of R2R/MB is unmatched.
With all that iv read and how people go through multiple upgrades before settling, Iv come to believe that gumby is end game stuff (within my budget).

A follow on question - 'in general' would it be correct to conclude that MB dacs works work better with clinical (op amp based) headamps rather than discrete headamps? To put it differently, discrete headamps like Magni/Asgard tend to be warmer, rounder, musical, etc. Relative op amp counterparts like Heresy/Magnius and thus would be a better pairing?


----------



## DrewVz (Jul 24, 2021)

I think the more resolving your system is, the more likely that the higher end MB DACs will be effective. Once you start obscuring the detail with warm amps or speakers /HPs, then you might as well stick with D-S DACs.

EDIT:  Obviously, there's more to DACs than just detail and warmth.  I'm just simplifying relative to the DACs I've mentioned in this thread.  D-S DACs have their place, and there can be quite a range of performance among them.  Burson, for example, has some really, really nice ESS DACs.  In general, though, the D-S DACs have a bit of digital-ness and glare that the R2R implementations tend not to have.  Once you have a system chain (preamp, cables, amp, speakers) that can resolve the music at a high level, the D-S DACs tend to show their flaws.  That's why I say that the MB DACs (particularly from Schiit) offer a good balance for these types of systems.  Schiit offers really high quality MB/R2R performance at a good price, particularly the Gungnir.  Just to clarify my position.


----------



## shafat777

Hey fellas,

I need some suggestion regarding my next dac purchase. Im in the market for a non delta sigma high end dac. Just you give you guys a little bit of context, i m gonna briefly explain my situation. I basically have two setups. On one side, I have my Pontus 2 feed by a Hermes DDC, and the pontus 2 supplying my Feliks OTL amp. I consider this setup complete as I see no reason to change anything in the chain. I use this setup for my ZMF cans exclusively. 

Now my other chain is my Bifrost 2 supplying the GSX mini via XLR and the Liquid Platinum via SE. I am satisfied with the performance of the BF2 but i feel like theres room for improvement. I think my pontus 2 provides more fuller sound, but unfortunately it can only run one set of output at a time. Other wise i would use that to supply both my mini and the Elise. Now i am itching for a new dac that can simultaneously power both xlr and SE. 

I am torn between the Gungnir and Yggdrasil from schiit. I am also looking at Audio GD R8 MK2 but i have no idea about Audio GD products. Ive looked into Holo Audio products but they are a little bit out of my price range. 

Any help would be appreciated. 

Thank you


----------



## hodgjy

shafat777 said:


> Hey fellas,
> 
> I need some suggestion regarding my next dac purchase. Im in the market for a non delta sigma high end dac. Just you give you guys a little bit of context, i m gonna briefly explain my situation. I basically have two setups. On one side, I have my Pontus 2 feed by a Hermes DDC, and the pontus 2 supplying my Feliks OTL amp. I consider this setup complete as I see no reason to change anything in the chain. I use this setup for my ZMF cans exclusively.
> 
> ...


The Yggy A2 is warmer sounding than the Gumby A2, which is said to be a bit cooler. That can be your starting point for your preference.

And, you could also look at DACs that use the Burr-Brown PCM1795 chip (or others in the 179x family). It's an advanced segment ladder, which uses an R2R ladder for the most significant bits and D-S for the least significant. It blends the best of both worlds and doesn't have the 0 crossing errors of R2R but maintains the nice slam and timbre of R2R.


----------



## Archerious (Aug 7, 2021)

shafat777 said:


> Hey fellas,
> 
> I need some suggestion regarding my next dac purchase. Im in the market for a non delta sigma high end dac. Just you give you guys a little bit of context, i m gonna briefly explain my situation. I basically have two setups. On one side, I have my Pontus 2 feed by a Hermes DDC, and the pontus 2 supplying my Feliks OTL amp. I consider this setup complete as I see no reason to change anything in the chain. I use this setup for my ZMF cans exclusively.
> 
> ...


Between the two I would go for Gungnir MB or Yggdrasil. Either of them is a great choice if you want a non-delta sigma DAC.

That being said the Pontus 2 is quite similar.

Main advantage you'll have going from Bifrost 2 MB to Gungnir MB or Yggy is going to be improved detail, instrument separation, and tighter controlled bass.

The Bifrost 2 MB is warmer and has more bass overall though IMO Yggy and Gumby control the bass and are thus more accurate.

Tbh I don't know if I'd honestly recommend upgrading to either from the Bifrost 2 MB. The difference isn't huge at all in 99% of my listening. Very slight but noticeable.

I don't regret my Gumby purchase but I was coming from a very neutral DAC that sounded borderline lifeless (Topping D90). The Gumby and Yiggy GS are night and day more alive.

In your case as you know Bifrost 2 MB is a great DAC, one of the best values. No kidding if it retailed for $999 it would still be a popular pick.


----------



## DrewVz

I own both the BF2 and Gumby and I hear a very significant difference between the two. Gumby is much, much better in every way. More detail, better separation, more authoritative bass, and clearer 3D soundstage.  It really isn't even a fair fight. 

I have no experience with the Pontus. But if it were me, I'd grab a Gumby or Yggy without hesitation and leave the BF2 in the barn.


----------



## Archerious

DrewVz said:


> I own both the BF2 and Gumby and I hear a very significant difference between the two. Gumby is much, much better in every way. More detail, better separation, more authoritative bass, and clearer 3D soundstage.  It really isn't even a fair fight.
> 
> I have no experience with the Pontus. But if it were me, I'd grab a Gumby or Yggy without hesitation and leave the BF2 in the barn.


Which cans are you using and which amp? I’m curious if that’s why I’m not noticing a major difference.


----------



## Guidostrunk

DrewVz said:


> I own both the BF2 and Gumby and I hear a very significant difference between the two. Gumby is much, much better in every way. More detail, better separation, more authoritative bass, and clearer 3D soundstage.  It really isn't even a fair fight.
> 
> I have no experience with the Pontus. But if it were me, I'd grab a Gumby or Yggy without hesitation and leave the BF2 in the barn.


Have to agree with you. When I got my gumby I expected it to be close with the bf2 after all the reading I've done. 
The battle was over in minutes and the bf2 was off to its new home. Lol


----------



## DrewVz

Archerious said:


> Which cans are you using and which amp? I’m curious if that’s why I’m not noticing a major difference.


Burson Soloist 3X and Hifiman Arya. But the difference is also obviously clear on my stereo setup, which is ~5k, not including the DAC. So not super high end but not exactly cheap either.


----------



## Archerious

DrewVz said:


> Burson Soloist 3X and Hifiman Arya. But the difference is also obviously clear on my stereo setup, which is ~5k, not including the DAC. So not super high end but not exactly cheap either.


I own the Arya, I'm using the Jot2 from Schiit. 

Hmm. Maybe it's the recordings? I mostly listen to Apple Music Lossless. Maybe I just don't have the best ears too.


----------



## DrewVz (Aug 8, 2021)

I've never listened to the Jot2, but it's possible that there is some poor synergy there that's hiding detail /clarity.

I'm listening exclusively to FLACs and CDs. I assume lossless apple music is similar. Not really sure, but to my ears the difference between the Gumby and BF2 is night and day.

Honestly, if you can't hear a difference, then that's probably good news. Just go for the cheaper option and you'll be happy. Unfortunately for me, I can't "un-hear" the difference, so I'm stuck with spending more $$.


----------



## artur9

Archerious said:


> I own the Arya, I'm using the Jot2 from Schiit.
> 
> Hmm. Maybe it's the recordings? I mostly listen to Apple Music Lossless. Maybe I just don't have the best ears too.


Could be the kind of music you're listening to, as well.
Hence the different analog stages @Baldr and Dave are working on.

I listen to mostly acoustic and thus the original analog (and @Baldr's fav, I think) is the one for me.


----------



## Voxata

DrewVz said:


> I've never listened to the Jot2, but it's possible that there is some poor synergy there that's hiding detail /clarity.
> 
> I'm listening exclusively to FLACs and CDs. I assume lossless apple music is similar. Not really sure, but to my ears the difference between the Gumby and BF2 is night and day.
> 
> Honestly, if you can't hear a difference, then that's probably good news. Just go for the cheaper option and you'll be happy. Unfortunately for me, I can't "un-hear" the difference, so I'm stuck with spending more $$.


This was my experience. The B2 felt somewhat constrained and less open than the Gungnir. Also, Gungnir had better bass and tonal response as a whole.


----------



## markkr

Argh, I came into this thread thinking… “I’m happy with my BF2”… now I have a cart full of Schiit that I’m trying to justify.


----------



## Voxata

You won't regret it. Gungnir is a massive step up in tonality IMO.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Does anyone know the turn around time for the Unison upgrade? When I ask in an email I get the typical politician deflection and my question never gets answered. Lol

I have gen5 right now. Is the Unison that much better? I know it's subjective but just want to hear others opinions.


----------



## Brubacca

I live in Pennsylvania and I think I was like two weeks plus a day or two. That is with about 8 transit days in there.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Brubacca said:


> I live in Pennsylvania and I think I was like two weeks plus a day or two. That is with about 8 transit days in there.


That's not bad. I'm in Pittsburgh myself lol.


----------



## Brubacca

I did it early on when it was released. I'm between Philly and Lancaster. If you know Victory Brewing Company I live between the two breweries.


----------



## macdonjh

Making progress, #50 now...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Brubacca said:


> I did it early on when it was released. I'm between Philly and Lancaster. If you know Victory Brewing Company I live between the two breweries.


Yeah bro. I love me some Dirtwolf IPA. Lol 

Did you notice a big difference with Unison? What generation did you have prior to the upgrade? Thanks man.


----------



## artur9

Brubacca said:


> I did it early on when it was released. I'm between Philly and Lancaster. If you know Victory Brewing Company I live between the two breweries.


How do you possibly get anything done?!


----------



## Brubacca

Actually I rarely drink beer. Don't like IPA much so its a very limited selection of Victory for me. Although I do like their beers. 

My favorite is their quadruple Bach called V12. Yep, 12% ABV.  So you don't need too many. 

I had gen 2 USB so Unison was a good upgrade.


----------



## Esers

Does anyone know how much Gungnir weighs in a package?


----------



## DrewVz

My shipping box says 12 lb.


----------



## Alan Sk

Surprised this hasn’t shown up yet on this appreciation thread. The Gungnir is now only available in multbit. Schiit has dropped the sigma delta. I believe Janson had mentioned in the past that sigma delta was much slower sales then multbit so not that big of a surprise.


----------



## hodgjy

Alan Sk said:


> Surprised this hasn’t shown up yet on this appreciation thread. The Gungnir is now only available in multbit. Schiit has dropped the sigma delta. I believe Janson had mentioned in the past that sigma delta was much slower sales then multbit so not that big of a surprise.


There's also no more AKM due to the fire.


----------



## duranxv

Any rumors of a Gungnir 2 or Yggdrasil 2 coming out?


----------



## Audiomania2 (Aug 28, 2021)

Gungnir MB just arrived today and I am hearing slight hum noise from the dac itself. The hum noise is not loud that it will distract music listening but I can hear noise 3ft away from the dac in a quiet environment. Noise is presented when no cables are attached to the dac and with/without power conditioner. Honestly, it’s not a big deal at the moment but I am little worried that this will get worse eventually that it distract my music listing through headphones and speakers. Anyone had a same problem as me?


----------



## DrewVz

Hmm, this isn't right. No output cables connected? Seems like a bad transformer. Gumbys are known for having transformers break free during shipping. Not sure if they've fixed the problem lately. 

Start with Schiit customer service. This is definitely not normal.


----------



## hodgjy

Audiomania2 said:


> Gungnir MB just arrived today and I am hearing slight hum noise from the dac itself. The hum noise is not loud that it will distract music listening but I can hear noise 3ft away from the dac in a quiet environment. Noise is presented when no cables are attached to the dac and with/without power conditioner. Honestly, it’s not a big deal at the moment but I am little worried that this will get worse eventually that it distract my music listing through headphones and speakers. Anyone had a same problem as me?


Definitely transformer hum. It may have broken loose as previously mentioned, or the resin covering the windings isn't sufficient. Contact Schiit CS. They are very good. I complained about some scratched on a volume knob and they sent me a new one.


----------



## Audiomania2 (Aug 29, 2021)

hodgjy said:


> Definitely transformer hum. It may have broken loose as previously mentioned, or the resin covering the windings isn't sufficient. Contact Schiit CS. They are very good. I complained about some scratched on a volume knob and they sent me a new one.


Thanks. I don’t know if the hum is getting louder or I am getting sensitive but transformer hum is bothering me a lot when I am close to the dac. This is very disappointing for a $1300 Dac. I might just return this and get a different brand Dac.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Audiomania2 said:


> Thanks. I don’t know if the hum is getting louder or I am getting sensitive but transformer hum is bothering me a lot when I am close to the dac. This is very disappointing for a $1300 Dac. I might just return this and get a different brand Dac.


I wouldn't throw the towel in that quick bro. Let them fix it. You really need to give the gumby an honest go. It's that good! Schiit service is fantastic.


----------



## DrewVz

Likely shipping damage. It's not uncommon.


----------



## briantrinh86

does anybody have a chance to compare the schiit gungnir vs gungnir multibit dac? i don't know how much for the non multibit version selling and what kind of dac is using for it?


----------



## macdonjh

briantrinh86 said:


> does anybody have a chance to compare the schiit gungnir vs gungnir multibit dac? i don't know how much for the non multibit version selling and what kind of dac is using for it?


There are several posts in this thread which discuss the multi-bit upgrade. Perhaps start reading backwards through the thread?

I think everyone who has changed from delta-sigma to multi-bit has been happy. At least I don't remember reading any posts by anyone who wanted his delta-sigma back.


----------



## briantrinh86

macdonjh said:


> There are several posts in this thread which discuss the multi-bit upgrade. Perhaps start reading backwards through the thread?
> 
> I think everyone who has changed from delta-sigma to multi-bit has been happy. At least I don't remember reading any posts by anyone who wanted his delta-sigma back.


THANKS FOR SHARING !


----------



## macdonjh

briantrinh86 said:


> THANKS FOR SHARING !


No worries. For what it's worth, I dipped my toe in the outboard, multi-bit DAC world with a Bifrost I multi-bit. It transformed my head phone system compared to using the analog output from my DAPs.

Then I added a Gungnir delta-sigma and my sound got even better. Not huge, life changing differences, but changes which are inportant to us. Bass extends a bit deeper with more detail. Mids are still clear and articulate. Treble still sparkles with enough articulation to have bite when necessary without being harsh. At least, that's what I hear.

I am on the multi-bit list...


----------



## Guidostrunk

macdonjh said:


> No worries. For what it's worth, I dipped my toe in the outboard, multi-bit DAC world with a Bifrost I multi-bit. It transformed my head phone system compared to using the analog output from my DAPs.
> 
> Then I added a Gungnir delta-sigma and my sound got even better. Not huge, life changing differences, but changes which are inportant to us. Bass extends a bit deeper with more detail. Mids are still clear and articulate. Treble still sparkles with enough articulation to have bite when necessary without being harsh. At least, that's what I hear.
> 
> I am o


Oops. I totally screwed this up lol.


----------



## Guidostrunk

macdonjh said:


> No worries. For what it's worth, I dipped my toe in the outboard, multi-bit DAC world with a Bifrost I multi-bit. It transformed my head phone system compared to using the analog output from my DAPs.
> 
> Then I added a Gungnir delta-sigma and my sound got even better. Not huge, life changing differences, but changes which are inportant to us. Bass extends a bit deeper with more detail. Mids are still clear and articulate. Treble still sparkles with enough articulation to have bite when necessary without being harsh. At least, that's what I hear.
> 
> I am on the multi-bit list...


Looking forward to hearing your thoughts once you get your multi in.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I'm in line for the Unison upgrade. Number 38 out of 40. Lol


----------



## LCMusicLover

briantrinh86 said:


> does anybody have a chance to compare the schiit gungnir vs gungnir multibit dac? i don't know how much for the non multibit version selling and what kind of dac is using for it?


D/S Schiit stuff is AKM-based, Gungnir D/S uses AKM 4399.


----------



## macdonjh

There has been lots of activity in the multi-bit backlog. I have jumped from 50 to 24...


----------



## Nebula769

What is the general consensus on the Gungnir Multibit compared to other Schiit dacs, specifically the Bifrost 2?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Gumby gen5/A2 by a pretty significant margin for me.


----------



## Audiomania2 (Sep 4, 2021)

Update from returning defective gungnir Multibit Dac. Hum noise was clearly hearable but schiit is charging me restocking fee for returning defective item. No other explanation. What a bummer. I don’t why some people are praising about schiit customer service but based on my experience, their customer service is no better than their own company name.


----------



## hodgjy

Audiomania2 said:


> Update from returning defective gungnir Multibit Dac. Hum noise was clearly hearable but schiit is charging me restocking fee for returning defective item. No other explanation. What a bummer. I don’t why some people are praising about schiit customer service but based on my experience, their customer service is no better than their own company name.


It depends who handles your claim, I think. You could ask again and then if it comes to it, threaten to contact your credit card company.

Many years ago I had terrible channel imbalance in the pot in the original Valhalla 1. They also charged me a restocking fee. Since I also thought the amp mostly sounded like trash, I let it slide because I viewed it as an audition within their return policy.


----------



## tmac17

Jumping in on this thread....
So most of you guys would say it's OK to stack the freya + on top on the gumby? I have the freya + and I pretty much just use it in tube mode. The machine get pretty hot.


----------



## macdonjh

I don't think you'll have a problem with the tubes on top.  Putting Gungnir on top might give you trouble.


----------



## macdonjh

I'm #1!  I'm #1!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Got my email today to send my gumby in for the Unison upgrade. That wasn't too bad of a wait. Better than I expected given it was purchased Aug. 26th.


----------



## macdonjh

Guidostrunk said:


> Got my email today to send my gumby in for the Unison upgrade. That wasn't too bad of a wait. Better than I expected given it was purchased Aug. 26th.


Mine is on it's way in for both multi-bit and Unison.  Might as well do both while it's there.


----------



## ksorota

Guidostrunk said:


> Got my email today to send my gumby in for the Unison upgrade. That wasn't too bad of a wait. Better than I expected given it was purchased Aug. 26th.


Seems as though they have caught up on the backlist.  Good news for all those wanting/needing the upgrades!


----------



## NPWS (Sep 21, 2021)

Hi, is there anyone had trying this gumby with no multibit with singxer sa-1?
thanks


----------



## Lichi

Hi, if I do a comparison with Bifrost, what is the major difference between them.
Recently, I  just did a lot of research and try to find a used Gungnir Multibit on sale. But It seems Gungnir is really popular in such a field, it is hard to find another used one to show up in any way.


----------



## Rensek

I've got a b stock gumby coming, along with a b stock freya s.

Looking forward to hearing what the fuss is all about.

I will eventually do a comparison to Bifrost 2


----------



## macdonjh

Lichi said:


> Hi, if I do a comparison with Bifrost, what is the major difference between them.
> Recently, I  just did a lot of research and try to find a used Gungnir Multibit on sale. But It seems Gungnir is really popular in such a field, it is hard to find another used one to show up in any way.


I have a Gungnir delta-sigma and Bifrost I multi-bit.  The short answer, to my ears, is the Gungnir has "more".  The bass goes deeper and has more detail, though it may not be as high in volume.  That may be due to Gungnir bass being shelved down in level a bit comparted to Bifrost, or it could be Bifrost has a mid-bass hump.  Midrange is more present with Gungnir, and vocals have slightly but noticeably more presence and intelligibility.  Gungnir highs are sweeter and smoother.  In comparison Bifrost is a bit rough around the edges at the top of the range.  I use both of these DACs in headphone systems and since I don't pay much attention to sound stage when I listen to head phones I won't comment about that.

A summary could be the Gungnir is more extended, smoother/ more refined sounding and has more detail retrieval than Bifrost.  That said, I don't feel I miss anything when I listen to my Bifrost.  To be honest I bought my Gungnir simply because I was curious.  Bifrost is fun when listening to, especially, classic rock, which is supposed to have a bit of an edge to it.  It also adds some bite to brass instruments.  Whenever I switch systems, I'm back in my comfortable groove zone, ignoring the differences between the two DACs within one song.

My Gungnir is currently on its way to California to have some bits added.  I will be able to comment about the difference between Gungnir and Bifrost multi-bit in time.


----------



## artur9

A few times now my speaker left channel has gone out.  Happens maybe 1/month or so.  This time the l/c also had a hum.
Last night it happened and I power cycle the left monoblock.  No change.
Power cycle Gungnir MB.  Channel comes back.

Is that enough to indict the Gungnir?  It's not new, I've had it a few years now.


----------



## macdonjh

artur9 said:


> A few times now my speaker left channel has gone out.  Happens maybe 1/month or so.  This time the l/c also had a hum.
> Last night it happened and I power cycle the left monoblock.  No change.
> Power cycle Gungnir MB.  Channel comes back.
> 
> Is that enough to indict the Gungnir?  It's not new, I've had it a few years now.


It's too bad the channel drop-out is so infrequent, from a trouble shooting perspective.  I was going to suggest swapping your left-right interconnects and then cycling the power to your Gungnir if the right channel dropped out.  Seems like a long time to live with funky sound, but that would go a long way to identifying your Gungnir as the problem.

Can you swap your Gungnir with another DAC in another system and see if the problem repeats itself?


----------



## Lichi

macdonjh said:


> I have a Gungnir delta-sigma and Bifrost I multi-bit.  The short answer, to my ears, is the Gungnir has "more".  The bass goes deeper and has more detail, though it may not be as high in volume.  That may be due to Gungnir bass being shelved down in level a bit comparted to Bifrost, or it could be Bifrost has a mid-bass hump.  Midrange is more present with Gungnir, and vocals have slightly but noticeably more presence and intelligibility.  Gungnir highs are sweeter and smoother.  In comparison Bifrost is a bit rough around the edges at the top of the range.  I use both of these DACs in headphone systems and since I don't pay much attention to sound stage when I listen to head phones I won't comment about that.
> 
> A summary could be the Gungnir is more extended, smoother/ more refined sounding and has more detail retrieval than Bifrost.  That said, I don't feel I miss anything when I listen to my Bifrost.  To be honest I bought my Gungnir simply because I was curious.  Bifrost is fun when listening to, especially, classic rock, which is supposed to have a bit of an edge to it.  It also adds some bite to brass instruments.  Whenever I switch systems, I'm back in my comfortable groove zone, ignoring the differences between the two DACs within one song.
> 
> My Gungnir is currently on its way to California to have some bits added.  I will be able to comment about the difference between Gungnir and Bifrost multi-bit in time.


Thank you,  macdonjh. 

I get a lot from your experience. As you said, I might consider upgrading the system from Bifrost to Gungnir. For me, if the system can offer more details than the others, that means that's worth buying them.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lichi said:


> Thank you,  macdonjh.
> 
> I get a lot from your experience. As you said, I might consider upgrading the system from Bifrost to Gungnir. For me, if the system can offer more details than the others, that means that's worth buying them.


I had the Bifrost 2 for a few months at the beginning of the year. Gotta sweet deal on a Gungnir multibit(gen5/A2) from a friend a few months after owning the BF2. 
It wasn't even close. The Gumby is miles ahead in just about every category. The only thing the BF2 wins in is it's size factor lol. That's about it.


----------



## artur9

macdonjh said:


> It's too bad the channel drop-out is so infrequent, from a trouble shooting perspective.  ...
> 
> Can you swap your Gungnir with another DAC in another system and see if the problem repeats itself?


The dropout actually does fix itself after a few minutes.  This is the first time I've actively intervened to fix it.
I have a Bifrost OG I could press in to service.  The Gungnir MB sounds so much nicer that I couldn't bear to swap it out for the indeterminate amount of time it would take for the problem to manifest.


----------



## macdonjh

I received notice from Schiit HQ my Gungnir is on its way back to me with more bits and better USB.  I expect it will be here next Wednesday, though I can't confirm that: Schiit sent me the e-mail before FedEx had come by to pick up today's boxes.  

More impressions in a few days.  I expect I won't be able to help myself and I'll post initial thoughts even before the DAC has warmed up and settled in.  @Lichi, stay tuned...


----------



## Lichi

macdonjh said:


> I received notice from Schiit HQ my Gungnir is on its way back to me with more bits and better USB.  I expect it will be here next Wednesday, though I can't confirm that: Schiit sent me the e-mail before FedEx had come by to pick up today's boxes.
> 
> More impressions in a few days.  I expect I won't be able to help myself and I'll post initial thoughts even before the DAC has warmed up and settled in.  @Lichi, stay tuned...



You are the man, buddy. Waiting for your updates. And I also looking for a Gungnir in the classifieds, It seems it is a very nice choice for my next collection.


----------



## Guidostrunk

macdonjh said:


> I received notice from Schiit HQ my Gungnir is on its way back to me with more bits and better USB.  I expect it will be here next Wednesday, though I can't confirm that: Schiit sent me the e-mail before FedEx had come by to pick up today's boxes.
> 
> More impressions in a few days.  I expect I won't be able to help myself and I'll post initial thoughts even before the DAC has warmed up and settled in.  @Lichi, stay tuned...


Wow bro. We're on the same schedule lol. Wednesday is when mine is supposed to be back too 😂


----------



## macdonjh

...supposed to be here Monday, delayed.  No "expected delivery date" posted.  Sigh.  Good thing I like the sound of my Bifrost multi-bit, too.

Any of you follow the "Story of the Most Improbable Start-up" thread, too?  There was a short language lesson about proper Norse pronunciation.  Apparently, Bifrost would be pronounced Beef-rost in Norway.


----------



## Blacksun

Same on my LIM Yggdrasil...  Stuck in limbo.  Called FedEX daily since Monday only to find out they have a worker shortage and have no idea when it may be delivered.  Read on a few groups FedEX is running weeks behind atm.  DO NOT USE FEDEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## macdonjh

Blacksun said:


> Same on my LIM Yggdrasil...  Stuck in limbo.  Called FedEX daily since Monday only to find out they have a worker shortage and have no idea when it may be delivered.  Read on a few groups FedEX is running weeks behind atm.  DO NOT USE FEDEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Very strange.  I shipped a piece of Head-Fi gear to another Head-Fi member the week-before-last and it arrived in two or three days, as promised.  Also going between major US cities (rather than to some place in the boonies).  Perhaps LA is considered wilderness now by FedEx?


----------



## Blacksun

Not sure...  When I spoke to FedEX this AM they said they could not locate the trailer it was in...  Seems like a $hit show over there...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well folks.... The Unison upgrade has exceeded my expectations. It really does smoke the gen5 usb card. 
Way more transparency. Much better imaging and space between notes. More air and breath across the board. The sense of realism is insane. Way more dimensional with outstanding layering. 

Didn't expect there to be that big of a difference but it's pretty significant! Anyone on the fence I highly recommend the Unison upgrade. It really unleashes the Gumby.


----------



## macdonjh

Guidostrunk said:


> Well folks.... The Unison upgrade has exceeded my expectations. It really does smoke the gen5 usb card.
> Way more transparency. Much better imaging and space between notes. More air and breath across the board. The sense of realism is insane. Way more dimensional with outstanding layering.
> 
> Didn't expect there to be that big of a difference but it's pretty significant! Anyone on the fence I highly recommend the Unison upgrade. It really unleashes the Gumby.


What are you using as your digital source, your computer?  I ask because today my digital sources are my DAPs, so I wonder how much difference Unison will make.


----------



## Guidostrunk

macdonjh said:


> What are you using as your digital source, your computer?  I ask because today my digital sources are my DAPs, so I wonder how much difference Unison will make.


I'm using a laptop atm. I'll be getting a streamer soon to compare Unison vs Coax/streamer. 

Either an ifi zen stream or a pi2design mercury streamer. 

I'll definitely report back on the comparison. 

As far as daps go. I've always wondered how they compete. I'd imagine great but I guess I'd have to travel that rabbit hole to find out lol


----------



## macdonjh

Guidostrunk said:


> I'm using a laptop atm. I'll be getting a streamer soon to compare Unison vs Coax/streamer.
> 
> Either an ifi zen stream or a pi2design mercury streamer.
> 
> ...


I am using a laptop now through an Eitr in my main system.  In my headphone systems I use my DAPs.  I'm working on my server software and may be using my laptop as a source in my headphone systems, too.  I only have one Eitr, so having a Unison board in my Gungnir will be a good thing.


----------



## macdonjh

Gungnir is back and warming up...


----------



## Guidostrunk

macdonjh said:


> Gungnir is back and warming up...


Definitely looking forward to your thoughts on the upgrade.


----------



## tmac17

I have to ask you guys as I'm a little confused(and late to the game). In regards to the Gungnir...
Reading through countless threads... Its apparent that Schiit changed up the Gungnirs analogue board.  Most of what I read through about the Gungnir sound seems to be based on A1. I have  relatively dynamic, fwd speakers and I was looking for a DAC to match with the Freya + to tame the sound a little. Gungnir seemed to have fit the bill but I'm not that familiar with what Schiit has done with their upgrades. Did Schiit really change the sound signature of the Gungnir awhile back to be more "cold"? Should be noted I'm using in a stereo set up.


----------



## macdonjh

tmac17 said:


> I have to ask you guys as I'm a little confused(and late to the game). In regards to the Gungnir...
> Reading through countless threads... Its apparent that Schiit changed up the Gungnirs analogue board.  Most of what I read through about the Gungnir sound seems to be based on A1. I have  relatively dynamic, fwd speakers and I was looking for a DAC to match with the Freya + to tame the sound a little. Gungnir seemed to have fit the bill but I'm not that familiar with what Schiit has done with their upgrades. Did Schiit really change the sound signature of the Gungnir awhile back to be more "cold"? Should be noted I'm using in a stereo set up.


I know there are different revisions for the analog board in Yggdrasil, I don't know if the same is true of Gungnir.  If a newer analog board was available, I'm surprised it's not offered as an upgrade option.

Time to learn something...


----------



## macdonjh

OK, I got to listen for about an hour before my DAP's battery died.  It's resting and recharging now...

First impressions: no harm was done.  The bass I liked from the delta-sigma board is still just as deep, just as resonant.  The mids are still liquid.  The highs are still extended, sparkly and detailed.  Now I need to dig in, relax and start listening for the stuff you don't hear in your first go.


----------



## tmac17 (Oct 2, 2021)

macdonjh said:


> I know there are different revisions for the analog board in Yggdrasil, I don't know if the same is true of Gungnir.  If a newer analog board was available, I'm surprised it's not offered as an upgrade option.
> 
> Time to learn something...


It seems like Schiit changed Analogue boards without notice a little while ago. So this may be old news.  But if people were buying the gungnir based on what others before them have experienced...they would  unknowingly be getting a different sounding DAC. I'm noticing used Gungnir muktibit dacs that's specifically day A1 board...or "rare" A1 board. Needless to say...prices for those are unusually high for a older used dac...and yet they sell quickly.  Reading through different forums that discuss this..it gets confusing as there are usually a few different conversations going on and..well mostly... Im not very literate in the technical details on this subject.


----------



## Guidostrunk

There's definitely 2 boards. Analog 1 & 2. 
SBAF has a whole thread on it.


----------



## macdonjh

I was able to participate in a tour organized by Audio46 for the Questyle CMA Twelve DAC/amp.  Since all my reference gear is Schiit, my review contains lots of comparisons between Questyle and Schiit.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aud...c-headphone-amp-names-announced.958081/page-3


----------



## macdonjh

Guidostrunk said:


> There's definitely 2 boards. Analog 1 & 2.
> SBAF has a whole thread on it.


Well, schiit, now I wonder which board I have (I bought my Gungnir used).


----------



## tmac17

I was wondering how one would know as well when looking to buy used. Might be something on the serial # but since Schiit made the change incognito there may be no way of knowing unless u open it up and know what ur looking at. I'll check out that discussion on SBAF.


----------



## Raptor34

macdonjh said:


> Well, schiit, now I wonder which board I have (I bought my Gungnir used).


If  the serial number starts with a "B" it's got a 'A2' analog board.   The change to the new revised board occurred October 2017.   
cheers


----------



## macdonjh

Raptor34 said:


> If  the serial number starts with a "B" it's got a 'A2' analog board.   The change to the new revised board occurred October 2017.
> cheers


Thanks, I'll look to satisfy my curiosity.


----------



## Brubacca

tmac17 said:


> It seems like Schiit changed Analogue boards without notice a little while ago. So this may be old news.  But if people were buying the gungnir based on what others before them have experienced...they would  unknowingly be getting a different sounding DAC. I'm noticing used Gungnir muktibit dacs that's specifically day A1 board...or "rare" A1 board. Needless to say...prices for those are unusually high for a older used dac...and yet they sell quickly.  Reading through different forums that discuss this..it gets confusing as there are usually a few different conversations going on and..well mostly... Im not very literate in the technical details on this subject.


So are you saying the A1 boards are considered more valuable than the A2 boards on the used market?

So Schiit made it better and people prefer the old one?  

My understanding was with Analog 2 board the general trait of Yggy and Gungnir switches. Yggy was a little aggressive on 1 and Gumby was laid back. 

On v2 Yggy got more laid back or analog while Gumby got a bit more forward. Yggy still had more detail.


----------



## rkw

tmac17 said:


> It seems like Schiit changed Analogue boards without notice a little while ago. So this may be old news.  But if people were buying the gungnir based on what others before them have experienced...they would  unknowingly be getting a different sounding DAC. I'm noticing used Gungnir muktibit dacs that's specifically day A1 board...or "rare" A1 board. Needless to say...prices for those are unusually high for a older used dac...and yet they sell quickly.  Reading through different forums that discuss this..it gets confusing as there are usually a few different conversations going on and..well mostly... Im not very literate in the technical details on this subject.


I can't find it now, but there have been posts with photos comparing the Gungnir A1 and A2 boards. They show that a few components were changed, but they are almost identical and A2 is clearly not a redesigned board as happened with Yggdrasil. I'm pretty sure that Jason would classify it as a Kaizen update.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-13791607

The prevailing opinion seems to be that A1 has a warmer sound than A2, but consider this:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-gungnir-dac.603219/post-16391527
I suspect that it's one of those audiophile things where a subtle difference gets blown out of proportion.


----------



## tmac17

Raptor34 said:


> If  the serial number starts with a "B" it's got a 'A2' analog board.   The change to the new revised board occurred October 2017.
> cheers


Thanks


----------



## ksorota

If anything The A1 is less valuable but harder to find. The A1 has a warmer tilt to the presentation and works better with brighter systems. The A1 also is thought to not need the Unison update as it becomes too warm. The A2 is more versatile and less gray sounding, but the gray is still a bit there. A2 is generally more neutral.


----------



## artur9

Raptor34 said:


> If  the serial number starts with a "B" it's got a 'A2' analog board.   The change to the new revised board occurred October 2017.
> cheers


I ordered mine in April, 2017.  I like its liquidity.  Never heard the A2.   I have heard an Yggdrasil through headphones.  The size of the Y made me go for the G.


----------



## tmac17

rkw said:


> I can't find it now, but there have been posts with photos comparing the Gungnir A1 and A2 boards. They show that a few components were changed, but they are almost identical and A2 is clearly not a redesigned board as happened with Yggdrasil. I'm pretty sure that Jason would classify it as a Kaizen update.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-13791607
> 
> The prevailing opinion seems to be that A1 has a warmer sound than A2, but consider this:
> ...


.


----------



## tmac17

rkw said:


> I can't find it now, but there have been posts with photos comparing the Gungnir A1 and A2 boards. They show that a few components were changed, but they are almost identical and A2 is clearly not a redesigned board as happened with Yggdrasil. I'm pretty sure that Jason would classify it as a Kaizen update.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-13791607
> 
> The prevailing opinion seems to be that A1 has a warmer sound than A2, but consider this:
> ...


Thank for that info.


----------



## macdonjh

macdonjh said:


> OK, I got to listen for about an hour before my DAP's battery died.  It's resting and recharging now...
> 
> First impressions: no harm was done.  The bass I liked from the delta-sigma board is still just as deep, just as resonant.  The mids are still liquid.  The highs are still extended, sparkly and detailed.  Now I need to dig in, relax and start listening for the stuff you don't hear in your first go.


OK, so you guys get an inside look at how the sausage is made while I collect my thoughts.

After that first night, when I was relieved to have my Gungnir back finally, I was only able to listen a couple more times.  I was actually disappointed.  While the improvements Gungnir brings to my system as compared to Bifrost were still there, that's all I heard, pretty much the same sound.  My system has been:
DAP (USB out) -> Gungnir -> Sys -> Aegir -> Stax SR-Lambda

Tonight, right now in fact, I have my other head phones in our living room.  
DAP (USB out) -> Gungnir -> Sys -> Aegir -> HiFiMAN HE-500

I have been blown away by the bottom end- the whole bottom end.  Low bass, mid-bass, bass/midrange transition, all of it.  Extension, power, detail, it's all there and it's addicting already.  I haven't listened to any vocal music yet, so I won't comment about that.  One O'Clock Lab Band is playing now, so lots of horns.  The trombone is sweet and mellow, the trumpets are brash and bright as the blare away at intervals.  No sibilance from the cymbals, I'll have to listen to a song which features cymbals, bells, triangles to hear how the leading edges are handled.

I am more excited about the multi-bit board now.


----------



## bgalakazam

Long-yeared debate on Bifrost or Gungnir. Didn't want to upgrade later and got the order for Gungnir, waiting on the deliver. I am happy with that choice, next is the amp for my HD800S. Been leaning toward Lyr 3, but delivery times are high.


----------



## Guidostrunk

bgalakazam said:


> Long-yeared debate on Bifrost or Gungnir. Didn't want to upgrade later and got the order for Gungnir, waiting on the deliver. I am happy with that choice, next is the amp for my HD800S. Been leaning toward Lyr 3, but delivery times are high.


You can always try and source a used Mjolnir 2. Then you'll have a matching stack and be fully balanced. 
Just a thought. Lol


----------



## bagwell359 (Oct 7, 2021)

Brubacca said:


> So are you saying the A1 boards are considered more valuable than the A2 boards on the used market?
> 
> So Schiit made it better and people prefer the old one?
> 
> ...


They said A2 was an upgrade.  I have a A1 w/ the DIY board added.  A2 is not an upgrade IMO.  A2 is more digital and lacks some of the subtle overtones of the A1.  I doubt I would have sold my SoTA analog rig for the Gumby with the A2 in it.


----------



## rkw

bagwell359 said:


> They said A2 was an upgrade.


Who said Gumby A2 was an upgrade? Schiit has said nothing about upgrades for Gumby (besides the USB board).


----------



## G0rt (Oct 8, 2021)

rkw said:


> Who said Gumby A2 was an upgrade? Schiit has said nothing about upgrades for Gumby (besides the USB board).


I don't think anyone's ever been able to tease any real answer from anyone at Schiit about what was done, when or why.

Although 'we all know' it did happen, and when, and what it sounds like. At least, that's the rumor.

My OG Gumby was 3rd hand, and I'm perfectly happy with it. Perfectly. Very perfectly. 😁


----------



## rkw

There's no question that Schiit revised the board, but we don't know the reason (see Jason's Kaizen post). I was questioning that anybody said it was an "upgrade".


----------



## G0rt

rkw said:


> There's no question that Schiit revised the board, but we don't know the reason (see Jason's Kaizen post). I was questioning that anybody said it was an "upgrade".


I'm utterly certain Somebody did. 🤣


----------



## bagwell359

rkw said:


> Who said Gumby A2 was an upgrade? Schiit has said nothing about upgrades for Gumby (besides the USB board).


Usually when something is updated its labeled "upgrade".  Certainly that's what early adopters claimed.  My bad it seems - OK.


----------



## Starvingforschiit

Hey guys.

I will probably get some slanted replies here but figured it's a decent place to ask.

I can get a Gumby for about 800 pounds after I sell my old DAC, or a Yggdrasil for about 1600. Obviously, a 100 percent increase is a lot, and I am pretty sure there won't be that much between them.

However, what's not much to someone might be a lot to me, so I figured id ask what you guys think? I am leaning towards the gumby and I can upgrade in say a year or so if I feel inclined?

I have a SDR modded hd800 with a La figaro 339i tube amp. For my speakers, I have Monitor Audio Silver 500 driven by a Musical Fidelity m6si. Hope that helps. My current dac is a Modius so I know the upgrade to any multibit would be good at this point.

Cheers.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Starvingforschiit said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> I will probably get some slanted replies here but figured it's a decent place to ask.
> 
> ...


If the 800 is a lot to you, take the Gumby.
It's already an extremely good DAC


----------



## Starvingforschiit (Oct 11, 2021)

ThanatosVI said:


> If the 800 is a lot to you, take the Gumby.
> It's already an extremely good DAC


Thanks for getting back to me.

So, I could technically afford it but it wouldn't be that comfortable. I'd make the sacrifice if the difference is worth it. 

I feel like the gumby is more than enough for atleast a year though and I could always upgrade.


----------



## RCBinTN

ThanatosVI said:


> If the 800 is a lot to you, take the Gumby.
> It's already an extremely good DAC


I agree. My rig is shown below and the SQ is great. I've heard the Yggy also, and the SQ is similar to the Gumby. Best of luck.


----------



## macdonjh

Starvingforschiit said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> I will probably get some slanted replies here but figured it's a decent place to ask.
> 
> ...


I haven't had much listening time with my Gungnir multi-bit since it's gotten back, but Gungnir delta-sigma represented a small, but meaningful improvement over my Bifrost multi-bit to me.  But that's at Gungnir DS used prices.  If I'd paid new price for Gungnir, I don't know if I'd have kept it.  

I was skeptical I'd value the improvements Yggdrasil would bring, given what I'd read over the past few months in various Schiit threads.  To me, my Gungnir experiment confirms that, even though I still haven't heard an Yggdrasil.  Bifrost multi-bit provided a 100% improvement over my out-board-DACless system.  Gungnir provided further improvement, but that's the top rung on the DAC ladder for me.

My two cents.


----------



## Starvingforschiit

RCBinTN said:


> I agree. My rig is shown below and the SQ is great. I've heard the Yggy also, and the SQ is similar to the Gumby. Best of luck.


Nice, I figured as much. I think I am pretty set on the Gumby.


macdonjh said:


> I haven't had much listening time with my Gungnir multi-bit since it's gotten back, but Gungnir delta-sigma represented a small, but meaningful improvement over my Bifrost multi-bit to me.  But that's at Gungnir DS used prices.  If I'd paid new price for Gungnir, I don't know if I'd have kept it.
> 
> I was skeptical I'd value the improvements Yggdrasil would bring, given what I'd read over the past few months in various Schiit threads.  To me, my Gungnir experiment confirms that, even though I still haven't heard an Yggdrasil.  Bifrost multi-bit provided a 100% improvement over my out-board-DACless system.  Gungnir provided further improvement, but that's the top rung on the DAC ladder for me.
> 
> My two cents.


Hey, thanks for this. I think at this point its a different flavor of an R2R dac, so either way it could just be preference at that level anyway.


----------



## LCMusicLover

Starvingforschiit said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> I will probably get some slanted replies here but figured it's a decent place to ask.
> 
> ...


I don’t know if this will help, but I owned both for a while. I A/B’d them, and decided I couldn’t hear enough difference to justify the cost of the Yggy. Ended up selling it, and still own the Gumby.

But the joker in all that is that I’m ‘headphones-only’ due to my living situation.

Lots of folks have suggested that I would have heard more differences from a 2-channel system.

BTW, both the Yggy & the Gumby were A2 — don’t recall which USB versions, but I fed them with coax S/PDIF so that didn’t affect the comparison.


----------



## Starvingforschiit

LCMusicLover said:


> I don’t know if this will help, but I owned both for a while. I A/B’d them, and decided I couldn’t hear enough difference to justify the cost of the Yggy. Ended up selling it, and still own the Gumby.
> 
> But the joker in all that is that I’m ‘headphones-only’ due to my living situation.
> 
> ...


That's helpful, I imagine I would feel the same. 

My listening is mostly headphones also, although my two-channel does get used when I can (I am in a flat at the minute)


----------



## artur9 (Oct 12, 2021)

Starvingforschiit said:


> My listening is mostly headphones also, although my two-channel does get used when I can (I am in a flat at the minute)


My Gungnir MB is used exclusively in a 2ch setup.  I've heard Yggdrasil on unfamiliar headphones and I have had a variety of other things float through my system (Cary PrePro (excellent, btw, for both movies and music), Krell Foundation (like it for movies only), a variety of other pre-pros when the Cary was giving me trouble (Bryston, Primare, Lexicon), Lyngdorf DPA-1.

AFAICT, to beat the Gungnir MB the price tag would be at least 2x and probably 3-5x.

I have a series of posts describing the changes I heard over time as my Gungnir MB OG "stabilized"/"warmed up" over a week.


----------



## macdonjh

macdonjh said:


> I haven't had much listening time with my Gungnir multi-bit since it's gotten back, but Gungnir delta-sigma represented a small, but meaningful improvement over my Bifrost multi-bit to me.  But that's at Gungnir DS used prices.  If I'd paid new price for Gungnir, I don't know if I'd have kept it.
> 
> I was skeptical I'd value the improvements Yggdrasil would bring, given what I'd read over the past few months in various Schiit threads.  To me, my Gungnir experiment confirms that, even though I still haven't heard an Yggdrasil.  Bifrost multi-bit provided a 100% improvement over my out-board-DACless system.  Gungnir provided further improvement, but that's the top rung on the DAC ladder for me.
> 
> My two cents.


I'm listening to my Gungnir multi-bit today.  I'm also using my Stax, which, frankly, underwhelmed me when Gungnir first rejoined my living room system.  Since I was listening in the afternoon, I turned the volume up a bit today and the bass came forward a bit and up in level to join the midrange and treble.  One thing I find perplexing about my Stax is their light-weight bass.  It's not that they lack extension, but they lack power. Turning the volume up helps; at least until the loudness of the midrange and treble begin to create fatigue.

Anyway, I am unable to put my finger on any particular attribute of the sound today, but there was a rightness to it.  I hear the same comments when reading impressions about Yggdrasil: it simply sounds right.  As long as I had my amp turned up enough to make my Stax sing, bass was extended and forceful (OK, not planar forceful, but not wimpy, either), mids were present, lush and detailed, highs were light and bright and sparkly.  Transients had that spooky quickness electrostats do so well.  I actually listened to _Above_ by Mad Season from beginning to end (I hardly ever listen to whole albums these days).  I was struck by the vocals: a bit forward with some reverb not present for the instruments.  It made me wonder if while the singer was recorded in the studio with a mic, everyone else was recorded straight to the board.  Anyway, it was cool to hear that detail.  Mad Season also uses vibes occasionally, and even an marimba on one song.  The notes were full with a bit of a hollow quality and wonderful decay.  

Tonight, I'm listening to _Exile_ by Black Sites.  Cymbals aren't particularly well-recorded, but guitar tones are sweet.  I don't mean sweet as in mellow and smooth: they have all the bite of '80s heavy metal bands playing power chords.  There is grit in each note.  Definitely a mid-forward recording.

I think maybe some Pat Metheny tomorrow...


----------



## bgalakazam

It’s finally here. I am happy after years I was able to obtain one. It’s nice and warm now 😄 but I will leave it always on. Amp is next, probably a Lyr now that Mjolnir is discontinued.


----------



## Starvingforschiit

bgalakazam said:


> It’s finally here. I am happy after years I was able to obtain one. It’s nice and warm now 😄 but I will leave it always on. Amp is next, probably a Lyr now that Mjolnir is discontinued.


Looks lovely, bet it sounds even better. 

The eBay bid I had my eye on ends today for mine so wish me luck, hopefully end today with a gumby also, fingers crossed.


----------



## macdonjh

bgalakazam said:


> It’s finally here. I am happy after years I was able to obtain one. It’s nice and warm now 😄 but I will leave it always on. Amp is next, probably a Lyr now that Mjolnir is discontinued.


You know, your Mac Mini would fit almost perfectly over that part of your Gungnir which doesn't have the vents (or fake vents, I can't remember if Gungnir's vents are fake or real).


----------



## artur9

Bit of an unfair comparison to follow.

My Gungnir is 4yo, originally built with MB and Unison.  I could send it in for an upgrade but been contemplating upgrading the Gungnir MB I have to something newer, hopefully better.

I had some old stuff kicking around so used them in trade for a used Linn Akurate DS/3 Katalyst streamer/DAC.  New, something like 4-5x the price of a Gungnir.

After a few days warming up the Akurate, listening back to back, the only differences I could hear was the Akurate was a smidge leaner in the bass and has a little wider soundstage.  This latter I noted playing Joshua Bell's Orfeo and Eurydice.  The Akurate had him standing a few inches to the right of where the Gungnir had him.

The Akurate has other functionality that affects its price.  HST, this comparison shows just how much of a value the Gungnir MB is.

This is all via a 2ch setup (see sig).

Posted in the vein of helping others triangulate where the Gungnir MB sits in the sea of DACs on the market.


----------



## Thoeri (Nov 1, 2021)

Hey! So I've been using Gungnir MB for a couple of months, and recently got a Jotunheim 2 and the Hifiman Arya headphones. I have a pretty simple question, as I have heard something in the lines of "only get the Gumby if you are very serious about Head-Fi, as you will not get the best of them without a premium amp". I really don't feel like upgrading my amp, as I like the Jot 2 with the Aryas and I don't want to spend big on an amp. Don't get me wrong, the sound of my setup is amazing. But I am considering selling my Gumby to go for a cheaper dac option. My question is, with my amp being Jot 2 (with the Aryas), will these benefit a lot from the Gumby? Or should there be small differences soundwise if I go for something like the Modius (I want a dac with balanced outputs) instead? I haven't tested enough of other things to tell by myself really. And I don't have the chance to test the Modius around here.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thoeri said:


> Hey! So I've been using Gungnir MB for a couple of months, and recently got a Jotunheim 2 and the Hifiman Arya headphones. I have a pretty simple question, as I have heard something in the lines of "only get the Gumby if you are very serious about Head-Fi, as you will not get the best of them without a premium amp". I really don't feel like upgrading my amp, as I like the Jot 2 with the Aryas and I don't want to spend big on an amp. Don't get me wrong, the sound of my setup is amazing. But I am considering selling my Gumby to go for a cheaper dac option. My question is, with my amp being Jot 2 (with the Aryas), will these benefit a lot from the Gumby? Or should there be small differences soundwise if I go for something like the Modius (I want a dac with balanced outputs) instead? I haven't tested enough of other things to tell by myself really. And I don't have the chance to test the Modius around here.


Sounds to me like you have a setup that you already find amazing so why change anything? 
I myself wouldn't part with the gumby. Especially going to a modius. 
With that said, I've never heard the modius but I find the gumby to be  significant upgrade over the Bifrost 2 which I have owned in the past.


----------



## artur9

Thoeri said:


> Hey! So I've been using Gungnir MB for a couple of months, and recently got a Jotunheim 2 and the Hifiman Arya headphones. I have a pretty simple question, as I have heard something in the lines of "only get the Gumby if you are very serious about Head-Fi, as you will not get the best of them without a premium amp". I really don't feel like upgrading my amp, as I like the Jot 2 with the Aryas and I don't want to spend big on an amp. Don't get me wrong, the sound of my setup is amazing. But I am considering selling my Gumby to go for a cheaper dac option. My question is, with my amp being Jot 2 (with the Aryas), will these benefit a lot from the Gumby? Or should there be small differences soundwise if I go for something like the Modius (I want a dac with balanced outputs) instead? I haven't tested enough of other things to tell by myself really. And I don't have the chance to test the Modius around here.


IMO:
1. You want the best source you can afford.  Sound lost early in the chain is irrecoverable.
2. You already have a DAC better than the Modius, the Gumby. 
3. The Gumby is AMAZING value.

HST, the Jot 2 is still a premium amp as far as 99% of humanity is concerned.

Now, if there are economic reasons for the question, yes, feed yourself and your dependents first


----------



## Thoeri

Yes, I guess I failed to mentioned that there is economical reasons to this aswell.. I am sure Gungnir is better than Modius, but I am not sure how much of a difference it really makes on the end result. There's a lot of different opinions on the impact of the dac. And yes, the Jotunheim 2 pairs really well with the Arya and it also has all the features that i want.


----------



## macdonjh

Thoeri said:


> Yes, I guess I failed to mentioned that there is economical reasons to this aswell.. I am sure Gungnir is better than Modius, but I am not sure how much of a difference it really makes on the end result. There's a lot of different opinions on the impact of the dac. And yes, the Jotunheim 2 pairs really well with the Arya and it also has all the features that i want.


Maybe get a Modius, listen to it for 14.5 days.  If you prefer the Gungnir multi-bit, return the Modius on the fifteenth day.  If you prefer the Modius, keep it and sell the Gungnir.


----------



## artur9

Thoeri said:


> There's a lot of different opinions on the impact of the dac.


The rest of the path from bits to ears have a large impact here.
The main thing I used to hear from DACs is that some were very fatiguing/quasi-painful to listen to for extended periods.  Gumby cured that.

With my recent DAC upgrade, I can now hear a dog whimpering on a Hamilton track that I never heard before (and no one else in the family, either, apparently.  They've all said, "There's a dog on there?").

That's what a better DAC can get you.

Can you borrow a Modius to see if it suits you?


----------



## Thoeri (Nov 1, 2021)

Thanks for the replys. There's no Modius in stores in my country currently and I dont know anyone that might have one. It's pretty hard to access Schiit products in Norway currently. I think I would have to order one from America and, if possible, return it if I don't like it. I guess that's a viable option. What was your upgrade if I may ask?


----------



## macdonjh

I didn't realize you weren't


Thoeri said:


> Thanks for the replys. There's no Modius in stores in my country currently and I dont know anyone that might have one. It's pretty hard to access Schiit products in Norway currently. I think I would have to order one from America and, if possible, return it if I don't like it. I guess that's a viable option. What was your upgrade if I may ask?


I didn't realize you don't live in the US.  I'll bet you'd pay more to ship a Modius two ways (if you decide to return it) than you would pay for a Modius.  To me, that makes a home audition of a new Modius impractical.  Hopefully you can find one much closer to you to either hear, or buy.

My upgrade was Bifrost I multi-bit -> Gungnir delta-sigma -> Gungnir multi-bit.  I still have my Bifrost, my Gungnir got bit reassignment surgery at Schiit a couple of months ago.


----------



## Thoeri

macdonjh said:


> I didn't realize you weren't
> 
> I didn't realize you don't live in the US.  I'll bet you'd pay more to ship a Modius two ways (if you decide to return it) than you would pay for a Modius.  To me, that makes a home audition of a new Modius impractical.  Hopefully you can find one much closer to you to either hear, or buy.
> 
> My upgrade was Bifrost I multi-bit -> Gungnir delta-sigma -> Gungnir multi-bit.  I still have my Bifrost, my Gungnir got bit reassignment surgery at Schiit a couple of months ago.


Honestly I am experiencing listening fatigue with my Gungnir MB setup quite quickly, but maybe that's due to the kind of music I listen to or playing too loud. In my opinion I am playing just loud enough to actually experience the dynamics and hear the details. So I'm not really sure if the Modius will do worse there, from what I have heard it's actually quite smooth and will not fatigue you as fast as many other dacs. I don't really worry about the extra cost of shipping it to Norway as the total cost will still be cheaper than what it would cost in Norway. Gear is very expensive here. But yes, shipping it back would feel pretty bad. I might just take the chance, because it's a cheap and balanced dac (which is unusual) and many people seem to enjoy the sound. The fit with Jotunheim comes on top, so I might not feel to bad about the "downgrade" considering the money I will save from it.


----------



## macdonjh

Thoeri said:


> Honestly I am experiencing listening fatigue with my Gungnir MB setup quite quickly, but maybe that's due to the kind of music I listen to or playing too loud. In my opinion I am playing just loud enough to actually experience the dynamics and hear the details. So I'm not really sure if the Modius will do worse there, from what I have heard it's actually quite smooth and will not fatigue you as fast as many other dacs. I don't really worry about the extra cost of shipping it to Norway as the total cost will still be cheaper than what it would cost in Norway. Gear is very expensive here. But yes, shipping it back would feel pretty bad. I might just take the chance, because it's a cheap and balanced dac (which is unusual) and many people seem to enjoy the sound. The fit with Jotunheim comes on top, so I might not feel to bad about the "downgrade" considering the money I will save from it.


Add a DAC card to your Jotunheim?  Of course, that would be nearly as much (delta-sigma) or more (multi-bit) than a Modius.

I also have a bit of trouble finding the right balance between volume and both bass response and detail audibility.  I find the sound of neither my Bifrost nor Gungnir fatiguing, so I often find myself turning the volume down after I realize I've bumped it up two or three times for favorite music.


----------



## watchnerd

After 4 years of non-use, I yanked my Mjolnir 2 out of the closet again and am enjoying it.

Currently running it straight from the pre-outs of my Devialet Expert and it works fine, although the ergonomics of two volume controls isn't so great.

I don't really *need* to add a DAC to the Mjolnir 2, but I've been thinking about it.

If I'm not really interested in multibit, would it make more sense to:

1. Get a current Modius?

2. Buy an old DS Gungnir?

The form factor stacking match of the Gungnir and the Mjolnir 2 is pretty obvious, but paying $500+ just for a stack match seems a little wasteful.

But would there be any other reason to prefer an old DS Gungnir to a new Modius for mating to a Mjolnir 2?


----------



## bagwell359

watchnerd said:


> After 4 years of non-use, I yanked my Mjolnir 2 out of the closet again and am enjoying it.
> 
> Currently running it straight from the pre-outs of my Devialet Expert and it works fine, although the ergonomics of two volume controls isn't so great.
> 
> ...


Don't know but I do know when I got my Gumby I would have chosen it over a Yggy for the same price.  

Good luck looking for your answer.


----------



## Thoeri (Nov 7, 2021)

watchnerd said:


> After 4 years of non-use, I yanked my Mjolnir 2 out of the closet again and am enjoying it.
> 
> Currently running it straight from the pre-outs of my Devialet Expert and it works fine, although the ergonomics of two volume controls isn't so great.
> 
> ...


Maybe an unpopular opinion but I dont think it will matter much in terms of sound. The Modius has some extra features that you might not care of. I just sold my Gungnir MB ($1249) for a Topping D30 ($359) as Modius was out of stock for 6-8 weeks, and I didn't really notice much difference to be honest. And those two dacs are built completely different. Even if I was on a higher budget I think I would go for Modius, just because I'm not a believer that expensive DACs will be that much better (audibly) on headphones. Even if there is any difference audibly, it would probably be too small to even come close to justify the price difference. In the last 2 years more and more solid DACs has been made in lower price ranges like the Modius. I feel like Gungnir is part of the old market of overpriced DACs. Just my opinion, and I'm saying this as a person who loved my Gungnir until I tried some of the cheaper ones. Modius is excellent value, $200 for a dac with XLR outputs is amazing. I wish it wasn't out of stock on their website.


----------



## watchnerd (Nov 7, 2021)

Thoeri said:


> Maybe an unpopular opinion but I dont think it will matter much in terms of sound. The Modius has some extra features that you might not care of. I just sold my Gungnir MB ($1249) for a Topping D30 ($359) as Modius was out of stock for 6-8 weeks, and I didn't really notice much difference to be honest. And those two dacs are built completely different. Even if I was on a higher budget I think I would go for Modius, just because I'm not a believer that expensive DACs will be that much better (audibly) on headphones. Even if there is any difference audibly, it would probably be too small to even come close to justify the price difference. In the last 2 years more and more solid DACs has been made in lower price ranges like the Modius. I feel like Gungnir is part of the old market of overpriced DACs. Just my opinion, and I'm saying this as a person who loved my Gungnir until I tried some of the cheaper ones. Modius is excellent value, $200 for a dac with XLR outputs is amazing. I wish it wasn't out of stock on their website.



Thanks for your feedback.

Except at the very cheapest end of the spectrum (Raspberry Pi DACs, Schiit Fulla) where the power supply is bare bones and the analog stages are cheap, I also don't have a good track record in being able to hear much difference between competent DACs made in the last few years.

That being said, from reading the specs, it does look like comparing DS Gungnir vs Modius:

--Gungnir DS has 2 x 4399 DAC chips vs 1 for the Modius
--Gungnir has a better power supply
--Modius comes with Schiit Unison USB, whereas it would be a $200 upgrade to an old DS Gungnir


----------



## watchnerd

JWahl said:


> Given all that, I do think if directly compared, it's entirely plausible someone prefers the Gumby, unless they just really need the extra features the ADI-2 DAC.  I will genuinely miss the utility of those features, but I'm also thrilled to actually enjoy music as music again.  To be fair, the Modius does have a greyer background and dryer sound than the ADI-2 and is a bit more rolled off at the extremes, but that rendering of microdynamic nuance is so critical to the reproduction of music for me that I can't go back to the ADI-2 now.



Interesting perspective.

I use the ADI-2 Pro as part of my DAW for mixing.  Most of the listening is through monitor speakers, sometimes through headphones just to check mix translation, and when I do use cans, I'm using nothing fancy, just some AKGs.

I'd never thought to use it just for listening.


----------



## watchnerd

Voxata said:


> Design aside the Gungnir to me (especially the A1) is about a meaty, engaging sound. It just sounds great with everything. The later versions are a bit less forgiving however I've never heard a dac match Gungnir's ability to sound great with everything while also being technically capable and realistic sounding. The wide sound is also very enjoyable.



Dumb question: Is the A1 an early generation multibit? DS?


----------



## watchnerd

schneller said:


> I know there is a chip shortage. I know about the supply chain problems. Despite this, you think Schiit could at least tease us with some Gungnir news.
> 
> 
> Why is it the only Schiit DAC not yet available in black finish?



FYI, you can now select black finish for the Gungnir.


----------



## Thoeri

watchnerd said:


> Thanks for your feedback.
> 
> Except at the very cheapest end of the spectrum (Raspberry Pi DACs, Schiit Fulla) where the power supply is bare bones and the analog stages are cheap, I also don't have a good track record in being able to hear much difference between competent DACs made in the last few years.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure how much impact multiple chips will have, I have heard good things about the Modius sound. But then again I'm not really an expert on this. Do you know about a place that sells the Modius currently?


----------



## watchnerd

Thoeri said:


> I'm not sure how much impact multiple chips will have, I have heard good things about the Modius sound. But then again I'm not really an expert on this. Do you know about a place that sells the Modius currently?



Nope, but I just ordered one form Schiit. I guess I'll be waiting 6-8 weeks.


----------



## rkw

watchnerd said:


> Dumb question: Is the A1 an early generation multibit? DS?


Multibit. Customers noticed a change in sound and found that there had been a revision to the analog board, and called it "A1" and "A2" versions. However Schiit doesn't acknowledge it as a different version of the product (more like a running production change).


----------



## macdonjh

watchnerd said:


> After 4 years of non-use, I yanked my Mjolnir 2 out of the closet again and am enjoying it.
> 
> Currently running it straight from the pre-outs of my Devialet Expert and it works fine, although the ergonomics of two volume controls isn't so great.
> 
> ...





Thoeri said:


> Maybe an unpopular opinion but I dont think it will matter much in terms of sound. The Modius has some extra features that you might not care of. I just sold my Gungnir MB ($1249) for a Topping D30 ($359) as Modius was out of stock for 6-8 weeks, and I didn't really notice much difference to be honest. And those two dacs are built completely different. Even if I was on a higher budget I think I would go for Modius, just because I'm not a believer that expensive DACs will be that much better (audibly) on headphones. Even if there is any difference audibly, it would probably be too small to even come close to justify the price difference. In the last 2 years more and more solid DACs has been made in lower price ranges like the Modius. I feel like Gungnir is part of the old market of overpriced DACs. Just my opinion, and I'm saying this as a person who loved my Gungnir until I tried some of the cheaper ones. Modius is excellent value, $200 for a dac with XLR outputs is amazing. I wish it wasn't out of stock on their website.


I've never heard a Modius, so I won't comment.  I've posted about my experiences listening to a Bifrost multi-bit and both incarnations of the Gungnir here.  In "absolute" terms, whatever that means, the differences between the Bifrost and either Gungnir are small.  I think they are important, so I don't feel the money spent to get a Gungnir was wasted, especially at used gear prices (I paid less than US$400 for my Gungnir delta-sigma).  I am still on the fence about Gungnir multi-bit.  Since I had mine upgraded I was never able to listen back-to-back, and I'm not as convinced as others who post here the differences are big enough for me to have justified the cost.  But it's sunk now.  At least the change to multi-bit didn't destroy any of what I liked about Gungnir's sound when it was delta-sigma.  At least it's a do-no-harm change if not an improvement for me.

As for dual DAC chips: for me that won't be a selling point again.  I bought a DAP a few years ago just to find out if I could hear the difference between a single chip and dual chips.  The dual chip DAP did not bowl me over, so I won't pay extra for that feature again.


----------



## bagwell359

rkw said:


> Multibit. Customers noticed a change in sound and found that there had been a revision to the analog board, and called it "A1" and "A2" versions. However Schiit doesn't acknowledge it as a different version of the product (more like a running production change).


The difference is obvious.  Schiit just being sneaky/stupid to deny it.


----------



## bagwell359

artur9 said:


> My Gungnir MB is used exclusively in a 2ch setup.  I've heard Yggdrasil on unfamiliar headphones and I have had a variety of other things float through my system (Cary PrePro (excellent, btw, for both movies and music), Krell Foundation (like it for movies only), a variety of other pre-pros when the Cary was giving me trouble (Bryston, Primare, Lexicon), Lyngdorf DPA-1.
> 
> AFAICT, to beat the Gungnir MB the price tag would be at least 2x and probably 3-5x.
> 
> I have a series of posts describing the changes I heard over time as my Gungnir MB OG "stabilized"/"warmed up" over a week.


Mine only goes off during power failures and severe electrical storms.  Rag about the same.


----------



## bagwell359

tmac17 said:


> I have to ask you guys as I'm a little confused(and late to the game). In regards to the Gungnir...
> Reading through countless threads... Its apparent that Schiit changed up the Gungnirs analogue board.  Most of what I read through about the Gungnir sound seems to be based on A1. I have  relatively dynamic, fwd speakers and I was looking for a DAC to match with the Freya + to tame the sound a little. Gungnir seemed to have fit the bill but I'm not that familiar with what Schiit has done with their upgrades. Did Schiit really change the sound signature of the Gungnir awhile back to be more "cold"? Should be noted I'm using in a stereo set up.


Imo yes.


----------



## watchnerd

macdonjh said:


> I've never heard a Modius, so I won't comment.  I've posted about my experiences listening to a Bifrost multi-bit and both incarnations of the Gungnir here.  In "absolute" terms, whatever that means, the differences between the Bifrost and either Gungnir are small.  I think they are important, so I don't feel the money spent to get a Gungnir was wasted, especially at used gear prices (I paid less than US$400 for my Gungnir delta-sigma).  I am still on the fence about Gungnir multi-bit.  Since I had mine upgraded I was never able to listen back-to-back, and I'm not as convinced as others who post here the differences are big enough for me to have justified the cost.  But it's sunk now.  At least the change to multi-bit didn't destroy any of what I liked about Gungnir's sound when it was delta-sigma.  At least it's a do-no-harm change if not an improvement for me.
> 
> As for dual DAC chips: for me that won't be a selling point again.  I bought a DAP a few years ago just to find out if I could hear the difference between a single chip and dual chips.  The dual chip DAP did not bowl me over, so I won't pay extra for that feature again.



Schiit said they've shipped my Modius, so we'll see how long it takes to arrive.

You got a good price on your DS Gungnir!  They seem to be in the $600-800 range now.  How long ago did you buy it?


----------



## Thoeri

watchnerd said:


> *Schiit said they've shipped my Modius, so we'll see how long it takes to arrive.*
> 
> You got a good price on your DS Gungnir!  They seem to be in the $600-800 range now.  How long ago did you buy it?


Really?? Christ, I literally bought another dac because I though that it would take months lol.


----------



## watchnerd

Thoeri said:


> Really?? Christ, I literally bought another dac because I though that it would take months lol.



FedEx says its shipping from Texas, expected to arrive by Friday.


----------



## macdonjh

watchnerd said:


> Schiit said they've shipped my Modius, so we'll see how long it takes to arrive.
> 
> You got a good price on your DS Gungnir!  They seem to be in the $600-800 range now.  How long ago did you buy it?


I know, the price made it easy to jump and try a Gungnir.  I wish I could have gotten a used price on the multi-bit upgrade.   I bought it earlier this year, perhaps in April.  Perhaps the current used prices are a reaction to the lack of new stock?  That's awfully close to the new price for a delta-sigma.  I wouldn't pay that much for a used unit.

To add to my previous post (and repeat what I said in an earlier post): my experience with Gungnir has convinced me I don't want to "trade up" for an Yggdrasil.  I was, for a time, quite divided between upgrading to Gungnir multi-bit or simply buying an Yggdrasil GS.  I don't doubt it sounds better to some, but the differences I hear between my Bifrost and my Gungnir make be believe I either wouldn't hear the differences Yggdrasil brings, or I wouldn't appreciate them.  Not that I've heard an Yggdrasil.  I plan to maintain my "ignorance is bliss" lifestyle within this arena.


----------



## watchnerd

macdonjh said:


> I know, the price made it easy to jump and try a Gungnir.  I wish I could have gotten a used price on the multi-bit upgrade.   I bought it earlier this year, perhaps in April.  Perhaps the current used prices are a reaction to the lack of new stock?  That's awfully close to the new price for a delta-sigma.  I wouldn't pay that much for a used unit.



Or perhaps Mjolnir 2 owners, like me, who saw the discontinuation of the Mjolnir and fear the matching Gungnir may be next.

It seems like it's either on the potential discontinuation list....or due for an update.

I can't see the Gungnir current generation staying static when it has so much in-house competition.


----------



## Thoeri (Nov 8, 2021)

macdonjh said:


> I know, the price made it easy to jump and try a Gungnir.  I wish I could have gotten a used price on the multi-bit upgrade.   I bought it earlier this year, perhaps in April.  Perhaps the current used prices are a reaction to the lack of new stock?  That's awfully close to the new price for a delta-sigma.  I wouldn't pay that much for a used unit.
> 
> To add to my previous post (and repeat what I said in an earlier post): my experience with Gungnir has convinced me I don't want to "trade up" for an Yggdrasil.  I was, for a time, quite divided between upgrading to Gungnir multi-bit or simply buying an Yggdrasil GS.  I don't doubt it sounds better to some, but the differences I hear between my Bifrost and my Gungnir make be believe I either wouldn't hear the differences Yggdrasil brings, or I wouldn't appreciate them.  Not that I've heard an Yggdrasil.  I plan to maintain my "ignorance is bliss" lifestyle within this arena.



https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...esting-yggdrasil-gungnir-mb-and-usb-regen.45/

I have seen other people prefer the Gungnir MB aswell in normal testing, also saying the difference is minimal. I have also seen a blind test where the person wasnt able to differ between Gungnir MB and Modi MB. That being said even the blind tests might not be 100% proof either, but probably more worth than a normal test still. The Gungnir MB does provide XLR outs which the Modi MB does not. Regardless it seems like not going for the Yggdrasil is perfectly reasonable. If anyone did and are perfectly happy, then great!


----------



## watchnerd

Thoeri said:


> https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...esting-yggdrasil-gungnir-mb-and-usb-regen.45/



Oh I got banned from Super Best 5+ years ago....


----------



## Voxata

watchnerd said:


> Dumb question: Is the A1 an early generation multibit? DS?



It's the first revision of multibit.


----------



## Sonic Defender

watchnerd said:


> Oh I got banned from Super Best 5+ years ago....


That's a compliment to you.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Nov 9, 2021)

If we can hear the difference between competently designed DACs that absolutely means that something is wrong. A $10 000 DAC that is well designed and implemented will sound the same as a well designed and implemented $300 DAC as long as both the digital conversion stage and the analogue output stage are capable of audible transparency. All of the zeros after the decimal place beyond audibility are completely meaningless. The Modius for example will sound just as wonderful as the Yggy when blind listening. Those people who "test" with their eyes are really testing with their wallets and the more expensive the device is and looks, the better it tests. I owned and really enjoyed a first Gen Gungnir, purchased brand new from Schiit. I even did the USB board upgrade myself.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Sonic Defender said:


> If we can hear the difference between competently designed DACs that absolutely means that something is wrong. A $10 000 DAC that is well designed and implemented will sound the same as a well designed and implemented $300 DAC as long as both the digital conversion stage and the analogue output stage are capable of audible transparency. All of the zeros after the decimal place beyond audibility are completely meaningless. The Modius for example will sound just as wonderful as the Yggy when blind listening. Those people who "test" with their eyes are really testing with their wallets and the more expensive the device is and looks, the better it tests. I owned and really enjoyed a first Gen Gungnir, purchased brand new from Schiit. I even did the USB board upgrade myself.


Why go for an expensive DAC like the Gungnir if a well implemented 300$ DAC sounds exactly the same?


----------



## Sonic Defender

ThanatosVI said:


> Why go for an expensive DAC like the Gungnir if a well implemented 300$ DAC sounds exactly the same?


Good point. Back when I had purchased the Gungnir I hadn't come to that realization. Additionally, there are other reasons that people purchase things. Aesthetics can be very important as can simply enjoying the craftmanship that goes into designing and building pieces of audio art. While I say that there would be no differences between a well done very expensive DAC, and an affordable well done DAC, I do not for a minute believe that performance is the only reason we purchase things. I have, and quite likely will purchase new audio gear for reasons other than performance in the future. However, I do not go to extremes any longer and when I do purchase things I do not delude myself into thinking that the sound will change (I don't buy broken/faulty or deliberately coloured gear).


----------



## watchnerd (Nov 9, 2021)

Sonic Defender said:


> If we can hear the difference between competently designed DACs that absolutely means that something is wrong. A $10 000 DAC that is well designed and implemented will sound the same as a well designed and implemented $300 DAC as long as both the digital conversion stage and the analogue output stage are capable of audible transparency. All of the zeros after the decimal place beyond audibility are completely meaningless. The Modius for example will sound just as wonderful as the Yggy when blind listening. Those people who "test" with their eyes are really testing with their wallets and the more expensive the device is and looks, the better it tests. I owned and really enjoyed a first Gen Gungnir, purchased brand new from Schiit. I even did the USB board upgrade myself.



I sort of agree with you, but also don't when it comes to filters.

For example:

The TEAC UD-series (UD-503 / UD-505) use AKM 4490 & 4497 chips.

I don't think anyone would accuse TEAC of being a company that doesn't know how to make well-designed and implemented DACs, especially on the pro/TASCAM side, but these models have a feature allows the end-user to adjust the PCM filter:

https://teac.jp/int/product/ud-505/spec

If a user can actually hear the difference between the filters*, does that mean that something is wrong with the DAC?

I would argue 'no', as all those filter choices are trade-offs and valid engineering compromises.

*I've tried double-blind testing my ability to hear differences amongst out-of-the-box AKM filters and my track record is not good


----------



## Sonic Defender

@watchnerd That is my point, nobody has a good record hearing differences in properly implemented filters when doing blind listening tests. If a difference could be reliably heard, blind over multiple trials, the filter would have to have been implemented incorrectly (if that is even possible). Certainly with the built in filters. If an implementer wrote their own custom filters it is possible that they could just be poorly created even if implemented properly. My point remains, and I suspect you would agree, there is no VALID evidence (multiple trial, level matched, blind listening tests) that demonstrate people can actually hear the differences.

Another thing that trips some people up is that it would be meaningless if even blind somebody conducted two trials and detected a difference, that could be chance. That is why somebody would need to correctly differentiate between filters, blind of course, 9 out of 10 trials to be considered as valid evidence. Chance could still explain such a high detection rate, but the odds of that happening are extremely low.


----------



## watchnerd (Nov 9, 2021)

Sonic Defender said:


> @watchnerd That is my point, nobody has a good record hearing differences in properly implemented filters when doing blind listening tests. If a difference could be reliably heard, blind over multiple trials, the filter would have to have been implemented incorrectly (if that is even possible). Certainly with the built in filters. If an implementer wrote their own custom filters it is possible that they could just be poorly created even if implemented properly. My point remains, and I suspect you would agree, there is no VALID evidence (multiple trial, level matched, blind listening tests) that demonstrate people can actually hear the differences.
> 
> Another thing that trips some people up is that it would be meaningless if even blind somebody conducted two trials and detected a difference, that could be chance. That is why somebody would need to correctly differentiate between filters, blind of course, 9 out of 10 trials to be considered as valid evidence. Chance could still explain such a high detection rate, but the odds of that happening are extremely low.



I don't really have a problem if people enjoy (what are probably placebo) effects from sighted listening.

It's all for fun and enjoyment.

And who listens blind, anyway?

One of the reasons I like my Mjolnir 2, and the way it sounds, is that the tubes look cool.

I intellectually know that, in a hybrid topology, the impact of tube rolling is far less than in another topology, but nonetheless I imagine I hear differences and that imagining affects my enjoyment.

Same for DACs -- if sighted listening creates imagined perception, we really do hear things differently because of the impact of sight and cognition on hearing.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Nov 9, 2021)

watchnerd said:


> I don't really have a problem if people enjoy (what are probably placebo) effects from sighted listening.
> 
> It's all for fun and enjoyment.
> 
> ...


I agree, the placebo effect is subjectively experienced as real so good enough for me. I have ZERO issue with people enjoying things the way that they want to, I only ever take exception when people dismiss the scientific evidence no matter how robust it is and believe in the power of the sample of one. It is perfectly fine for anybody to say I believe that I hear a difference which is very different from when people state that without any doubt the difference is because of the equipment, even if the evidence clearly suggests otherwise.

I will not lie, I find it baffling how we decide when to accept well vetted and valid scientific evidence. For example, we expect medications to be very well tested, we expect that the surgical procedure being recommended is actually valid. We want and require scientific evidence, but suddenly when we are told that the science does not support a pretty wild audio claim, for example that people can hear a difference between copper and silver wire, even if there is no credible evidence to back it up.

I wouldn't bat an eye if somebody said I know there is no evidence to support belief X, but for me I hear the difference. There is nothing wrong with that at all, but given how much danger there is now living in a post-truth world, I do think that defending scientific evidence and the scientific method is actually very important, even in places such as this. Saying that, this is a hobby and it is meant to be fun, but can't people have fun and enjoy their opinions while also still respecting the value of scientific evidence? It just doesn't feel like it needs to be such a hard balance to strike.

I am like you, I owned a tube amp (La Figaro 339) and I loved those beautiful warm tubes and their glow and I have no doubt that the experience of sitting in a dark room with a bourbon and ginger, listening to great music while looking at those beautiful tubes glowing influenced what I heard. I'm good with that and I would never want to take that away from anybody, but I also own the fact that my perception is not the same as fact, and I was always careful to make sure that my subjective claims were clearly represented as such. I respect science, my life has been made better because of it so I am not going to disrespect it and suddenly invalidate it because I need to believe something that runs contrary to science. That I guess is where I come from on such matters.

The subjective experience of audio is beautiful, and I am so happy that people have it. I just hope that we can respect the hard fought for gains that science has brought our species. People have died defending and doing science so for me it is not a trivial thing.


----------



## macdonjh

Sonic Defender said:


> If we can hear the difference between competently designed DACs that absolutely means that something is wrong. A $10 000 DAC that is well designed and implemented will sound the same as a well designed and implemented $300 DAC as long as both the digital conversion stage and the analogue output stage are capable of audible transparency. All of the zeros after the decimal place beyond audibility are completely meaningless. The Modius for example will sound just as wonderful as the Yggy when blind listening. Those people who "test" with their eyes are really testing with their wallets and the more expensive the device is and looks, the better it tests. I owned and really enjoyed a first Gen Gungnir, purchased brand new from Schiit. I even did the USB board upgrade myself.


I think your argument is muddled by the criterion the DAC must be "competently designed" or "well designed and implemented".  That presupposes there's an objective standard and gives anyone participating in the discussion an all-too-easy out by being able to claim some piece of gear he doesn't like isn't designed properly.  By whose standard?

I also think you are too quick to discount the effects of the power supply(ies) (both analog and digital), the filter (comments made above notwithstanding), clock, analog stage, and the output stage.  Sure, you could take each in turn, as was done with the filter in previous posts, and state it makes no difference (and if it does it's wrong).  But when each of those sub-systems is added together into a whole system I find it plausible differences can be heard.

Bifrost multi-bit is the first out board DAC I've purchased, and that only since last year I think.  I was stunned at the difference it made in my head phone system.  I had previously been using my DAPs connected to my head phone amp (a Mjolnir I).  My personal theory is the output stage of my Bifrost was better able to drive my Mjolnir than the amps in my various DAPs.  However, it could also be the multi-bit implementation instead of the AKM delta-sigma chips in my DAPs.  I could actually test that for myself now.  Hmmm...

As I've said before I believe I hear differences between Bifrost MB and Gungnir DS.  Subtle to be sure, but they are there.  Gungnir DS and Gungnir MB?  I'm not so sure, which surprises me.  

I am also reasonably convinced I've heard minor differences in head phone cables.  Not enough to purchase from Effect Audio or PW Audio, but enough to not purchase from Ali Express.  As for interconnects and speaker cables: I don't hear any differences.  I believe the effects of the room overwhelm the effects of the cables.


----------



## Guidostrunk

macdonjh said:


> I think your argument is muddled by the criterion the DAC must be "competently designed" or "well designed and implemented".  That presupposes there's an objective standard and gives anyone participating in the discussion an all-too-easy out by being able to claim some piece of gear he doesn't like isn't designed properly.  By whose standard?
> 
> I also think you are too quick to discount the effects of the power supply(ies) (both analog and digital), the filter (comments made above notwithstanding), clock, analog stage, and the output stage.  Sure, you could take each in turn, as was done with the filter in previous posts, and state it makes no difference (and if it does it's wrong).  But when each of those sub-systems is added together into a whole system I find it plausible differences can be heard.
> 
> ...


Sounds convincing to me as I do believe in hearing differences between dacs. The people you are responding to do not and never will because they "trust the science". 

Every once in a while sound science followers spill over into these threads. I'd really hate to see this thread get ruined.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Guidostrunk said:


> Sounds convincing to me as I do believe in hearing differences between dacs. The people you are responding to do not and never will because they "trust the science".
> 
> Every once in a while sound science followers spill over into these threads. I'd really hate to see this thread get ruined.


Yes, science is a terrible thing to bring into a discussion of technology .... yikes.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Nov 9, 2021)

macdonjh said:


> I think your argument is muddled by the criterion the DAC must be "competently designed" or "well designed and implemented".  That presupposes there's an objective standard and gives anyone participating in the discussion an all-too-easy out by being able to claim some piece of gear he doesn't like isn't designed properly.  By whose standard?
> 
> ....


Actually no, that is the aspect of my argument that clarifies things clearly. As a species we possess a very finite threshold of audibility. That has been known for quite some time hence the criterion of reaching audible transparency. And I completely agree with your point about power supplies. You could find many posts of mine where I talk about the importance of power supplies.

If the power supply introduces noise, it happens through the analogue stage, which I stated had to be capable of audible transparency. Transitively a device cannot achieve audible transparency if it contributes added noise to the signal that is audible; such as may occur with a poorly implemented power supply and distribution topology. So again, my point remains as long as those two stages are audibly transparent, physics guarantees us the identical signal our hearing brain can interpret. There is a very definite sensitivity limit with our hearing brain, a threshold beyond which it is irrelevant in that our brain could not know what it can't gather through a primary sense. That isn't my opinion, those are well vetted and established scientific facts. I am merely stating them, not authoring them.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Anyway, I'll happily show myself out as it would be unfair to the thread to continue taking it off topic. As I said I owned a Gungnir, and have owned several Schiit products, all of which I liked very much and I am extremely happy for the success of Schiit and I hope that their well deserved success continues. Now I'll show myself out.


----------



## artur9

I don't expect to hear differences, and yet I do.
I don't understand the flowery phrases people use to describe the differences they hear so I'm always surprised when I hear differences at all.

Then, I get new stuff, and I definitely hear things I didn't hear before.  Like the dog on that Hamilton track I mentioned.  Didn't even know a dog was there.

The "science" is missing something.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sonic Defender said:


> Yes, science is a terrible thing to bring into a discussion of technology .... yikes.


Not really. You're just in the wrong place. Lol


----------



## watchnerd

Sheesh, used Gumby's going for $750-850 on eBay.

At that price, might as well buy a new one.


----------



## macdonjh

watchnerd said:


> Sheesh, used Gumby's going for $750-850 on eBay.
> 
> At that price, might as well buy a new one.


Not so much.  Remember, Gungnir multi-bit is $1300 new.  When available, the Gungnir delta-sigma was $850...


----------



## macdonjh

Sonic Defender said:


> Actually no, that is the aspect of my argument that clarifies things clearly. As a species we possess a very finite threshold of audibility. That has been known for quite some time hence the criterion of reaching audible transparency. And I completely agree with your point about power supplies. You could find many posts of mine where I talk about the importance of power supplies.
> 
> If the power supply introduces noise, it happens through the analogue stage, which I stated had to be capable of audible transparency. Transitively a device cannot achieve audible transparency if it contributes added noise to the signal that is audible; such as may occur with a poorly implemented power supply and distribution topology. So again, my point remains as long as those two stages are audibly transparent, physics guarantees us the identical signal our hearing brain can interpret. There is a very definite sensitivity limit with our hearing brain, a threshold beyond which it is irrelevant in that our brain could not know what it can't gather through a primary sense. That isn't my opinion, those are well vetted and established scientific facts. I am merely stating them, not authoring them.





Sonic Defender said:


> Anyway, I'll happily show myself out as it would be unfair to the thread to continue taking it off topic. As I said I owned a Gungnir, and have owned several Schiit products, all of which I liked very much and I am extremely happy for the success of Schiit and I hope that their well deserved success continues. Now I'll show myself out.


Hey, take this with you on your way out (if you decide to leave, which maybe you shouldn't): I absolutely agree with you there are aspects of audio (and in fact anything humans can perceive with their senses) which can be measured but either not perceived or be misinterpreted by our brains.  Honestly, does anyone really think an amp with a noise level of -120 dB actually sounds cleaner than an amp with -100 dB noise?  

I also partially agree with your statements about differences in audio equipment.  Many of the reviews I read I consider to be filled with hyperbole and exaggeration.  On the one hand, reviewers are almost required to do that, otherwise every review would be nearly the same: I think I heard a small bit of extra X-factor here...  On the other hand, reviews written like that may create the expectation of huge and obvious differences between pieces of equipment.  In my limited experience, the differences between gear of comparable technologies from people with comparable design skills are fairly small.  Returning to my first-hand example of the Bifrost and Gungnir: when I was evaluating both, I am convinced I heard differences.  However, now that I own both, those differences are forgotten within five minutes' listening to either.  Some would call it brain-burn: it doesn't take very long at all for me to get used to the sound of one or the other and then to stop listening for the differences.  Then, there are tube amps and solid state amps...

I think we may even be quite close to agreement about DACs specifically.  I responded the way I did to that post of yours because I regarded a DAC holistically, as a complete system and I thought you were, too, sort of.  I thought your argument was: any DAC chip will sound the same in any box.  Now, I don't think you meant that.


----------



## watchnerd

macdonjh said:


> Not so much.  Remember, Gungnir multi-bit is $1300 new.  When available, the Gungnir delta-sigma was $850...



Sure, but the spread of $450 bucks to get a 5 year warranty on a new one doesn't seem so bad.


----------



## jonathan c

Sonic Defender said:


> Yes, science is a terrible thing to bring into a discussion of technology .... yikes.


…Science is a terrible thing to rely on solely in assessments of perception…


----------



## Sonic Defender (Nov 10, 2021)

macdonjh said:


> Hey, take this with you on your way out (if you decide to leave, which maybe you shouldn't): I absolutely agree with you there are aspects of audio (and in fact anything humans can perceive with their senses) which can be measured but either not perceived or be misinterpreted by our brains.  Honestly, does anyone really think an amp with a noise level of -120 dB actually sounds cleaner than an amp with -100 dB noise?
> 
> I also partially agree with your statements about differences in audio equipment.  Many of the reviews I read I consider to be filled with hyperbole and exaggeration.  On the one hand, reviewers are almost required to do that, otherwise every review would be nearly the same: I think I heard a small bit of extra X-factor here...  On the other hand, reviews written like that may create the expectation of huge and obvious differences between pieces of equipment.  In my limited experience, the differences between gear of comparable technologies from people with comparable design skills are fairly small.  Returning to my first-hand example of the Bifrost and Gungnir: when I was evaluating both, I am convinced I heard differences.  However, now that I own both, those differences are forgotten within five minutes' listening to either.  Some would call it brain-burn: it doesn't take very long at all for me to get used to the sound of one or the other and then to stop listening for the differences.  Then, there are tube amps and solid state amps...
> 
> I think we may even be quite close to agreement about DACs specifically.  I responded the way I did to that post of yours because I regarded a DAC holistically, as a complete system and I thought you were, too, sort of.  I thought your argument was: any DAC chip will sound the same in any box.  Now, I don't think you meant that.


Thank you for your very respectful and honest reply, and yes, it seems that we would agree on far more than we would disagree over. I am actually not at all antagonistic to the subjective side of the audio experience, in fact I derive the vast majority of my pleasure from it. While I enjoy the science and try hard to understand it and use it as a guide to make wise investments in audio, at the end of the day I listen with my hearing brain, I don't test and measure my equipment, I listen to and enjoy my system.

That is why I am a little bit of a scientific activist these last few years around this community. I, and many, many other people, have found a way to enjoy the subjective pleasure our gear brings even while fully embracing what scientific inquiry has taught us about what is likely to be audible versus what is not. It is not an either or, subjectivist versus objectivist situation. I spend a great deal of time over at audiosciencereview, and I used to spend a great deal of time here on the Sound Science Forum. What I experienced in those places are members who love music and enjoy great audio reproduction as an important part of their life. They do not denigrate subjective experience, my belief is, and certainly speaking for myself, they simply want to make sure that science is not abandoned and it is given it's due.

While many people in the various forums and threads here deride the objectivists, I would remind them that their gear has gotten better and better not only due to scientific knowledge and innovation, but because the objectivist camp has identified engineering and implementation short-cuts and errors that companies were taking whether intentionally or by mistake. Schiit is a great example of this. Schiit was panned hard over at ASR because some of their offerings measured quite poorly and on a few occasions there were some questionable engineering decisions identified. What did Schiit do? Did they wine and cry and start attacking the science? Not at all, this is why I respect the heck out of Schiit, instead they answered the bell and they learned from the situations and now their gear consistently gets fantastic testing results and the membership at ASR, as do I really applauds them. I would happily invest in Schiit products because of this.

Those who like to make fun of the science based approach get to benefit from it because now we can buy a $300 Schiit DAC that performs better than their first few efforts with the Yggy, for example. Schiit also produced a great Preamp and several other fantastic offerings. Without a doubt the scientific method and critique was used to identify the former issues that effected some of Schitt's offerings at ASR has had nothing but positive results. And it isn't just Schiit who have had to answer the challenge, but in my mind Schiit handled things the way mature and fantastic designers and business people should. When people publicly deride and choose to ignore science when it is inconvenient they are actually harming the hobby, IMO.

This wasn't at all directed at you, quite the contrary, you just provided me an opportunity to provide a little more context to my position, which I appreciate so thank you for being open to a respectful exchange of ideas.


----------



## bagwell359

Sonic Defender said:


> Thank you for your very respectful and honest reply, and yes, it seems that we would agree on far more than we would disagree over. I am actually not at all antagonistic to the subjective side of the audio experience, in fact I derive the vast majority of my pleasure from it. While I enjoy the science and try hard to understand it and use it as a guide to make wise investments in audio, at the end of the day I listen with my hearing brain, I don't test and measure my equipment, I listen to and enjoy my system.
> 
> That is why I am a little bit of a scientific activist these last few years around this community. I, and many, many other people, have found a way to enjoy the subjective pleasure our gear brings even while fully embracing what scientific inquiry has taught us about what is likely to be audible versus what is not. It is not an either or, subjectivist versus objectivist situation. I spend a great deal of time over at audiosciencereview, and I used to spend a great deal of time here on the Sound Science Forum. What I experienced in those places are members who love music and enjoy great audio reproduction as an important part of their life. They do not denigrate subjective experience, my belief is, and certainly speaking for myself, they simply want to make sure that science is not abandoned and it is given it's due.
> 
> ...


Lots of very good points.

Do not forget that the excitement and spending by subjectavists has resulted in more companies, more products, more investment, more advancements, and shorter times to market by far than a totally objective marketplace.

How far would estat, ribbon, sliding bias class A amp technology to name but a few have gotten?


----------



## bagwell359

Thoeri said:


> https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...esting-yggdrasil-gungnir-mb-and-usb-regen.45/
> 
> I have seen other people prefer the Gungnir MB aswell in normal testing, also saying the difference is minimal. I have also seen a blind test where the person wasnt able to differ between Gungnir MB and Modi MB. That being said even the blind tests might not be 100% proof either, but probably more worth than a normal test still. The Gungnir MB does provide XLR outs which the Modi MB does not. Regardless it seems like not going for the Yggdrasil is perfectly reasonable. If anyone did and are perfectly happy, then great!


In early 2016 I tried the Yggy, Gumby (both) on my at the time very excellent speaker system and room.  The Yggy was cleanest but was a little too scrubbed sounding.  MB was more analog, great depth - it reminded me of a great hybrid pre-amp like the ARC SP15.  The Jr Gungnir was good as a stand alone but was wilted vs the others.

At that time all were original versions and plugged in 2 days+ for serious listening.

I'll have to see what Schitt does w it's DAC's but meanwhile I'll stick w the Gen 5.


----------



## Thoeri

bagwell359 said:


> Lots of very good points.
> 
> *Do not forget that the excitement and spending by subjectavists has resulted in more companies, more products, more investment, more advancements, and shorter times to market by far than a totally objective marketplace.*
> 
> How far would estat, ribbon, sliding bias class A amp technology to name but a few have gotten?


We also need to remember all those new people who come into this hobby thinking that way more expensive equals much better sound quality like nearly everything else in this world. Especially with all of these over exaggerated reviews everywhere. Some people come into this feeling crap because they can only afford the $300 dac not knowing that it may not even sound worse than the $3000 one. And then you have the people who get tempted to spend a lot of money on these expensive ones expecting magic from the reviews when they barely can afford it. I sold my Gungnir MB to someone who was probably inexperienced and used a Sundara and couldn't afford anything else after the Gumby. It's very hard for beginners whos on a budget to know what to prioritize when upgrading their sound quality because theres just fantastic reviews on for example expensive dacs everywhere. And maybe reminding people of the science and small differences can be important to prevent these things. I also bought my Gungnir MB when I was sitting on RNHP and Sennheiser HD660S thinking it would do magic, and it was a huge investment for me with my economy. Now I'm just happy that I was lucky enough to be able to sell it and buy a much cheaper dac after being introduced to the science. My new dac sounds pretty much the same to me. It saved me a lot of money reading about the things that Sonic Defender describes here.


----------



## bagwell359

Thoeri said:


> We also need to remember all those new people who come into this hobby thinking that way more expensive equals much better sound quality like nearly everything else in this world. Especially with all of these over exaggerated reviews everywhere. Some people come into this feeling crap because they can only afford the $300 dac not knowing that it may not even sound worse than the $3000 one. And then you have the people who get tempted to spend a lot of money on these expensive ones expecting magic from the reviews when they barely can afford it. I sold my Gungnir MB to someone who was probably inexperienced and used a Sundara and couldn't afford anything else after the Gumby. It's very hard for beginners whos on a budget to know what to prioritize when upgrading their sound quality because theres just fantastic reviews on for example expensive dacs everywhere. And maybe reminding people of the science and small differences can be important to prevent these things. I also bought my Gungnir MB when I was sitting on RNHP and Sennheiser HD660S thinking it would do magic, and it was a huge investment for me with my economy. Now I'm just happy that I was lucky enough to be able to sell it and buy a much cheaper dac after being introduced to the science. My new dac sounds pretty much the same to me. It saved me a lot of money reading about the things that Sonic Defender describes here.


Buyer beware.  Can't afford it?  Don't do it or get a 2nd job.  Want to max your value?  Do research.  

There are products with crazy prices that are worth it, others that are not.  What is to be done?  Consider and then act or do not act.

For years I floated my sound with dealer discounts and then used gear.  On a lower rung these days but then I've taken 11 vacations in far away lands the past 18 years.  All comes down to choices of what seems important.


----------



## watchnerd

Thoeri said:


> Some people come into this feeling crap because they can only afford the $300 dac not knowing that it may not even sound worse than the $3000 one.



I got to a certain point in my hi fi journey where I bought more expensive stuff because it looked cool. 

I didn't even care that I'd probably fail a double-blind test -- I like owning pretty things because they bring me joy.


----------



## macdonjh

Sonic Defender said:


> Thank you for your very respectful and honest reply, and yes, it seems that we would agree on far more than we would disagree over. I am actually not at all antagonistic to the subjective side of the audio experience, in fact I derive the vast majority of my pleasure from it. While I enjoy the science and try hard to understand it and use it as a guide to make wise investments in audio, at the end of the day I listen with my hearing brain, I don't test and measure my equipment, I listen to and enjoy my system.
> 
> That is why I am a little bit of a scientific activist these last few years around this community. I, and many, many other people, have found a way to enjoy the subjective pleasure our gear brings even while fully embracing what scientific inquiry has taught us about what is likely to be audible versus what is not. It is not an either or, subjectivist versus objectivist situation. I spend a great deal of time over at audiosciencereview, and I used to spend a great deal of time here on the Sound Science Forum. What I experienced in those places are members who love music and enjoy great audio reproduction as an important part of their life. They do not denigrate subjective experience, my belief is, and certainly speaking for myself, they simply want to make sure that science is not abandoned and it is given it's due.
> 
> ...


Absolutely nothing taken personally.  Cheers.


----------



## Thoeri (Nov 10, 2021)

bagwell359 said:


> Buyer beware.  Can't afford it?  Don't do it or get a 2nd job.  Want to max your value?  Do research.
> 
> There are products with crazy prices that are worth it, others that are not.  What is to be done?  Consider and then act or do not act.
> 
> For years I floated my sound with dealer discounts and then used gear.  On a lower rung these days but then I've taken 11 vacations in far away lands the past 18 years.  All comes down to choices of what seems important.


How are you supposed to know whats worth it and whats not worth? If you are new and don't know anything already. Im pretty sure you will find a lot of fantastic reviews on expensive gear that's not going to be good in reality. Inexperienced people will often believe those. I don't think I know of any other costy hobby where it's this hard to figure out what's worth it and what's not. If you don't know anyone who you can trust already, you have no idea where to look for reliable information. It's just very confusing. Also as Sonic Defender pointed out companys start to care more now about making good dacs for a good price because they will be exposed for selling highly overpriced mediocre stuff. In the last few years we are getting more and more quality at lower prices. Also it's not just about buying things you can't afford, it's more about if you're new and on a budget getting as much value from your budget as possible is key. And that can be very hard still.


----------



## Thoeri

watchnerd said:


> I got to a certain point in my hi fi journey where I bought more expensive stuff because it looked cool.
> 
> I didn't even care that I'd probably fail a double-blind test -- I like owning pretty things because they bring me joy.


Yes ofcourse, I dont know anything about your economical situation, but my post was not about people in your situation. If you can afford to buy expensive stuff because it looks cool, then sure. If you're on a budget and just looking for good sound however..


----------



## macdonjh

bagwell359 said:


> Buyer beware.  Can't afford it?  Don't do it or get a 2nd job.  Want to max your value?  Do research.
> 
> There are products with crazy prices that are worth it, others that are not.  What is to be done?  Consider and then act or do not act.
> 
> For years I floated my sound with dealer discounts and then used gear.  On a lower rung these days but then I've taken 11 vacations in far away lands the past 18 years.  All comes down to choices of what seems important.


I agree it's silly to go into debt for a hobby.  I'm not sure a price is "crazy" if the product is worth it.   I agree everyone has to do his own value judgement.  Every purchase has a value judgement, whether it's acknowledged or not.  My Bifrost/Gungnir/ Yggdrasil (not for me) story is representative of pretty much my entire time in audio.  I've climbed a few ladders, to price points I judged worth affording, and figured out whether or not performance justified the prices.  In many cases, new gear prices did not, but used prices did.  In my speaker system, I've had the same amps for twenty-two years, no plans to change.  I've had the same speakers for sixteen (and the previous pair for sixteen before that), no plans to change.  I think the same will be true of my Bifrost and Gungnir: no plans to change.  Now that I've spent that money, I can go to Burma.    Just like @bagwell359, I've made my value choices, and here we both are.

Oh, and we've been on family trips over the years, too.  I didn't spend all our money on audio gear. 



watchnerd said:


> I got to a certain point in my hi fi journey where I bought more expensive stuff because it looked cool.
> 
> I didn't even care that I'd probably fail a double-blind test -- I like owning pretty things because they bring me joy.


Also valid.  Pride of ownership is real.  Supporting makers who produce quality, or superior aesthetics, or novel designs, et cetera, is also worthy.


----------



## macdonjh

Thoeri said:


> How are you supposed to know whats worth it and whats not worth? If you are new and don't know anything already. Im pretty sure you will find a lot of fantastic reviews on expensive gear that's not going to be good in reality. Inexperienced people will often believe those. I don't think I know of any other costy hobby where it's this hard to figure out what's worth it and what's not. If you don't know anyone who you can trust already, you have no idea where to look for reliable information. It's just very confusing. Also as Sonic Defender pointed out companys start to care more now about making good dacs for a good price because they will be exposed for selling highly overpriced mediocre stuff. In the last few years we are getting more and more quality at lower prices. Also it's not just about buying things you can't afford, it's more about if you're new and on a budget getting as much value from your budget as possible is key. And that can be very hard still.


This sums up very well why I don't think the "upgrade merry go 'round" is a bad thing.  Whenever anyone starts a hobby, any hobby, I think he should "start small" and grow into the hobby.  That's what entry level gear is for.  My other hobby is amateur astronomy, another pursuit which has expensive gear available.  Lots of new comers post questions in forums about, "which telescope should I buy", or "is this eye piece better than that eye piece".  There is plenty of hyperbole in optical gear reviews as well.  My recommendations always start with goals-type questions: what to you like looking at the most?  Do you like wide views of big pieces of the sky, or do you like zooming in for a close look at one thing?  Are you willing to take a half hour to set up gear when you want to observe, or do you want something to grab and go?  There are dozens more questions.  The right answers come with experience and trying different gear and figuring out what you like.  Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

What really blows people away is when you remind them what they like today may change tomorrow and then they'll want different gear to serve those needs.  Yikes!


----------



## bagwell359

Thoeri said:


> How are you supposed to know whats worth it and whats not worth? If you are new and don't know anything already. Im pretty sure you will find a lot of fantastic reviews on expensive gear that's not going to be good in reality. Inexperienced people will often believe those. I don't think I know of any other costy hobby where it's this hard to figure out what's worth it and what's not. If you don't know anyone who you can trust already, you have no idea where to look for reliable information. It's just very confusing. Also as Sonic Defender pointed out companys start to care more now about making good dacs for a good price because they will be exposed for selling highly overpriced mediocre stuff. In the last few years we are getting more and more quality at lower prices. Also it's not just about buying things you can't afford, it's more about if you're new and on a budget getting as much value from your budget as possible is key. And that can be very hard.


I worked at a college co-op (10% over cost) and we gave out advice, classes, demos.  I sold some real good stuff cheap.  Those days are gone.

But if as you say beginners have more good stuff these days and the net is loaded with sites offering good advice - then maybe these are the good old days.

There will always be people looking to take advantage.


----------



## watchnerd

Thoeri said:


> Yes ofcourse, I dont know anything about your economical situation, but my post was not about people in your situation. If you can afford to buy expensive stuff because it looks cool, then sure. If you're on a budget and just looking for good sound however..



I think it's actually helpful to budget buyers, too.

i.e. if I'm willing to say..

"I don't think this expensive DAC I own measures better than what you can get for $200, or that I can pass a blind test to identify it -- I just bought it because it's pretty"

...then it can help mitigate people feeling bad about owning budget gear.


----------



## bagwell359

macdonjh said:


> This sums up very well why I don't think the "upgrade merry go 'round" is a bad thing.  Whenever anyone starts a hobby, any hobby, I think he should "start small" and grow into the hobby.  That's what entry level gear is for.  My other hobby is amateur astronomy, another pursuit which has expensive gear available.  Lots of new comers post questions in forums about, "which telescope should I buy", or "is this eye piece better than that eye piece".  There is plenty of hyperbole in optical gear reviews as well.  My recommendations always start with goals-type questions: what to you like looking at the most?  Do you like wide views of big pieces of the sky, or do you like zooming in for a close look at one thing?  Are you willing to take a half hour to set up gear when you want to observe, or do you want something to grab and go?  There are dozens more questions.  The right answers come with experience and trying different gear and figuring out what you like.  Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
> 
> What really blows people away is when you remind them what they like today may change tomorrow and then they'll want different gear to serve those needs.  Y


Yup lots of hobbies, when the kids came most of them went bye.  They are grown and I've added a few but not the same.  We who can afford hobbies and trips are fortunate because lots of people are living day to day that's why I spend 15-20 hours a week giving time to troubled children.  No Saint and no guilt to spread, just a choice to give back. 

Wish you all a nice day.


----------



## macdonjh

bagwell359 said:


> Yup lots of hobbies, when the kids came most of them went bye.  They are grown and I've added a few but not the same.  We who can afford hobbies and trips are fortunate because lots of people are living day to day that's why I spend 15-20 hours a week giving time to troubled children.  No Saint and no guilt to spread, just a choice to give back.
> 
> Wish you all a nice day.


Yup.  Those amps?  Early mid-life crisis purchase the year before my daughter was born because I knew it would be decades before I could justify that kind of purchase again.  Lots of prior experience went into that buying decision, though, so it's been a good buy.  Those "new" speakers?  Purchased so I could reclaim floor space in our family room from the Apogee ribbons (with subwoofers) which preceded them, so I would have more room to play with our young kids.  My 2-channel tube pre-amp?  Sold for a multi-channel pre-pro, because the kids wanted surround sound.

I'm getting close to where you are and looking for places to provide the time and energy our kids won't be using anymore to other who would benefit.


----------



## bagwell359

macdonjh said:


> Yup.  Those amps?  Early mid-life crisis purchase the year before my daughter was born because I knew it would be decades before I could justify that kind of purchase again.  Lots of prior experience went into that buying decision, though, so it's been a good buy.  Those "new" speakers?  Purchased so I could reclaim floor space in our family room from the Apogee ribbons (with subwoofers) which preceded them, so I would have more room to play with our young kids.  My 2-channel tube pre-amp?  Sold for a multi-channel pre-pro, because the kids wanted surround sound.
> 
> I'm getting close to where you are and looking for places to provide the time and energy our kids won't be using anymore to other who would benefit.


I had lots of room so I kept various panels until about 2003. I just sort of froze the audio but the camera equipment/dark room went.  Fancy $300 a couple dinners turned into ball pits and burgers.  Didn't feel lack but stuff had to go.


----------



## jonathan c

bagwell359 said:


> Yup lots of hobbies, when the kids came most of them went bye.  They are grown and I've added a few but not the same.  We who can afford hobbies and trips are fortunate because lots of people are living day to day that's why I spend 15-20 hours a week giving time to troubled children.  No Saint and no guilt to spread, just a choice to give back.
> 
> Wish you all a nice day.


God bless you.


----------



## blackdragon87

Im considering getting the Gungir multibit with Unison usb as an upgrade to my bifrost 2. Would it be worth the extra cost? or should I go straight to the yggy?

current amps are lp, wa 3, jot 2


----------



## macdonjh

blackdragon87 said:


> Im considering getting the Gungir multibit with Unison usb as an upgrade to my bifrost 2. Would it be worth the extra cost? or should I go straight to the yggy?
> 
> current amps are lp, wa 3, jot 2


If you skip back a few pages you can see my thoughts about a similar path.  I have a Bifrost I MB and had a Gungnir delta-sigma which I upgraded to multi-bit and Unison.  I can't really comment about Unison compared to other Schiit USB boards: I used my DAPs for sources until just recently.

I am surprisingly ambivalent about the Gungnir MB.  The improvement in sound I heard when I added Bifrost to my system was immediately noticed and surprisingly large.  Previously I had been using the analog output of my DAP into my head phone amp.  Improvements brought by Gungnir DS were more subtle, but easily noticeable: more detail and subtlety in the bass, smoother less grainy highs.  Overall, a more sophisticated, fuller, more engaging sound.  Now, I could compare Bifrost and Gungnir side-by-side.  

I sent my Gungnir off for new bits.  When I got it back I didn't really hear that much difference compared to what I remembered the DS version sounded like.  Of course, I couldn't perform an A-B comparison.  I will say the multi-bit change did not do any harm: everything I liked about the Gungnir DS, I still like with the Gungnir MB.  I am in the minority in this thread: most everyone else who has had their Gungnir multi-bitted has reported big improvement.

That said, Gungnir is as high on the Schiit DAC ladder as I'm going to climb.  I enjoy its sound and from the reviews and thread posts I've read the improvements Yggdrasil provides I either wouldn't hear, or wouldn't value.  So I'm going to be content with what I have.


----------



## blackdragon87

ok thank you for sharing your experience


----------



## busseysound

macdonjh said:


> If you skip back a few pages you can see my thoughts about a similar path.  I have a Bifrost I MB and had a Gungnir delta-sigma which I upgraded to multi-bit and Unison.  I can't really comment about Unison compared to other Schiit USB boards: I used my DAPs for sources until just recently.
> 
> I am surprisingly ambivalent about the Gungnir MB.  The improvement in sound I heard when I added Bifrost to my system was immediately noticed and surprisingly large.  Previously I had been using the analog output of my DAP into my head phone amp.  Improvements brought by Gungnir DS were more subtle, but easily noticeable: more detail and subtlety in the bass, smoother less grainy highs.  Overall, a more sophisticated, fuller, more engaging sound.  Now, I could compare Bifrost and Gungnir side-by-side.
> 
> ...


I can second exactly what Mac described.  I went from a Bifrost 2 MB to a Gumby MB (both with Unision USB).  The Gungnir just brings out more details across the entire frequency range.  That being said, if the rest of your equipment doesn't compliment the quality of the Gumby you might not hear a tremendous improvement over the BF2.  Once I upgraded my amp and cables the difference was definitely noticable.


----------



## macdonjh

busseysound said:


> I can second exactly what Mac described.  I went from a Bifrost 2 MB to a Gumby MB (both with Unision USB).  The Gungnir just brings out more details across the entire frequency range.  That being said, if the rest of your equipment doesn't compliment the quality of the Gumby you might not hear a tremendous improvement over the BF2.  Once I upgraded my amp and cables the difference was definitely noticable.


Adding to what @busseysound says: I just posted a review of the Kennerton Rognir I got to listen to as part of a tour.  With that head phone it was easy to identify the differences between all the Schiit we have in our house.  Head phones are a relatively new phenomenon here, so we have lots of silver boxes from CA.  I used a few different combinations, some more others less, but describe the differences, some times generally other times specifically, in my review: 
Gungnir -> Sys -> Aegir
Bifrost -> Mjolnir
Gungnir -> Mjolnir
Modi -> Magni

I believe there are audible and identifiable differences between various pieces of Schiit.  If you have mid-fi head phones you may not get any benefit from higher-end components.  Heck, if you have mid-fi tastes, you might not value the differences; not a thing wrong with that.  No point in not fitting your gear to your tastes and values.  Those Rognir were very resolving in my opinion, and made hearing differences easier than with the head phones I own.  Still, I'm listening to my antique Stax today...


----------



## Guidostrunk

busseysound said:


> I can second exactly what Mac described.  I went from a Bifrost 2 MB to a Gumby MB (both with Unision USB).  The Gungnir just brings out more details across the entire frequency range.  That being said, if the rest of your equipment doesn't compliment the quality of the Gumby you might not hear a tremendous improvement over the BF2.  Once I upgraded my amp and cables the difference was definitely noticable.


Agreed! Exactly how I heard it.


----------



## Lvivske

How does the Gungnir DS streak up against the B2?


----------



## hikaru12

Hey guys - I'm looking to dip back into Schiit DACs. I've owned the Yggy GS and I had the Gumby a while back. I found the GS a bit dry but quite detailed. It was an excellent pairing with a warmer amp like the LP or ZMF cans like the Aeolus. Has anyone compared the Gumby to the GS and if so were their major differences? From what I remember, the Gumby had a wider soundstage while the GS was more technically impressive and had great bass.


----------



## Dana Reed

hikaru12 said:


> Hey guys - I'm looking to dip back into Schiit DACs. I've owned the Yggy GS and I had the Gumby a while back. I found the GS a bit dry but quite detailed. It was an excellent pairing with a warmer amp like the LP or ZMF cans like the Aeolus. Has anyone compared the Gumby to the GS and if so were their major differences? From what I remember, the Gumby had a wider soundstage while the GS was more technically impressive and had great bass.


I have both, and while I found I like the Gumby more for headphone use, I like the GS more with my Magnepan speakers.


----------



## hikaru12

Dana Reed said:


> I have both, and while I found I like the Gumby more for headphone use, I like the GS more with my Magnepan speakers.



Thanks for chiming in. Why did you choose the Gumby for your headphones? I feel like the GS with Magnepans would be a very analytical experience imo.


----------



## Dana Reed

hikaru12 said:


> Thanks for chiming in. Why did you choose the Gumby for your headphones? I feel like the GS with Magnepans would be a very analytical experience imo.


With the Mjolnir 1 I use for planars, I found the GS a little too harsh.    With the speakers, perhaps my room not being treated smooths that’s out a bit.  And I also add an SVS PC12 plus sub crossed over at 40 Hz to the 2 channel setup, while running the 1.7i at full range with a pair of Vidars (Freya S preamp)


----------



## macdonjh

A nice Head-fier sold his Gungnir delta-sigma to me so now I have both versions of Gungnir in my living room system. Time for some extended comparisons to see if I like one more than the other.


----------



## macdonjh (Feb 19, 2022)

Oh, and a very UNscientific sampling of Schiit thread participants makes me think there are more Yggdrasils decoding for speakers than there are for head phones. I don't know why, but I have seen a few posts describing Yggdrasil giving better spatial information and having less phase distortion artifacts. Maybe those things are easier to hear from speakers in a room than from head phones in your ears.


----------



## Dana Reed

macdonjh said:


> Oh, and a very UNscientific sampling of Schiit thread participants makes me think there are more Yggdrasils decoding for speakers than there are for head phones. I don't know why, but I have seen a few posts describing Yggdrasil giving better spatial information and having less phase distortion artifacts. Maybe those things are easier to hear from speakers in a romm than from head phones in you ears.


Weird, I have. Gungnir multibit and Yggy GS, and after trying both with HP and Speakers, I found subjectively the same thing.  I liked the Yggy for speakers and Gumby for headphones


----------



## hikaru12

Dana Reed said:


> Weird, I have. Gungnir multibit and Yggy GS, and after trying both with HP and Speakers, I found subjectively the same thing.  I liked the Yggy for speakers and Gumby for headphones


I think it’s because Yggy does soundstage and imaging better. Speakers excel at this if the room is properly treated.


----------



## TomSix (Feb 18, 2022)

Sonic Defender said:


> If we can hear the difference between competently designed DACs that absolutely means that something is wrong. A $10 000 DAC that is well designed and implemented will sound the same as a well designed and implemented $300 DAC as long as both the digital conversion stage and the analogue output stage are capable of audible transparency. All of the zeros after the decimal place beyond audibility are completely meaningless. The Modius for example will sound just as wonderful as the Yggy when blind listening. Those people who "test" with their eyes are really testing with their wallets and the more expensive the device is and looks, the better it tests. I owned and really enjoyed a first Gen Gungnir, purchased brand new from Schiit. I even did the USB board upgrade myself.


The sort of argument as you are presently making does emerge over and over again in audio circles.

Its a variation/extension of the argument that if two pieces of equipment measure very similarly then they should sound essentially identical in blind tests —but we know beyond any reasonable doubt that this is simply not at all the case universally.

Let me offer a contrary perspective on this:

I would argue that such positions unfortunately represent rather extreme and Procrustean oversimplification, and as such, are not really logically supportable.

We know that psychoacoustic loadings are varied, and work in several ways to color perception. We tend to forget: human beings can be just as perceptually biased *against* perceiving actual sonic differences as they can be biased towards hearing differences that do not exist outside of their preconceptions.

Along with those who tend to “hear what they want to hear” there are perhaps just as commonly those who “don’t hear what they don’t want to hear”.  Fortunately, it would seem most of us who enjoy quality reproduction of recorded music are not so rigid in our presumptions, in either of these ways, and can therefore freely make reasonably honest and meaningful observations and commentaries about qualitative sound differences when experienced.

This biggest problem with promulgating such a dogmatic argument, as I see it, is that this can unduly confuse people who are new to the enjoyment of quality audio reproduction and also intimidate them away from openly articulating what they are actually noticing when listening.

In my opinion, as such, there is simply a dead-end of unhelpfulness and inflexibility implied by the assumption of such a rigid stance.


----------



## Rattle (Feb 19, 2022)

blackdragon87 said:


> Im considering getting the Gungir multibit with Unison usb as an upgrade to my bifrost 2. Would it be worth the extra cost? or should I go straight to the yggy?
> 
> current amps are lp, wa 3, jot 2


I have LP and JOT2 as well as Bifrost 2. At the end of 2021 I got a really sweet deal on a Gungnir a2 with gen 5 USB. Source is USB and Jriver. On my headphone rigs I immediately heard a difference. The A2 is definitely a bump up in sound quality. It's not as fat or warm sounding as the Bifrost 2 but in a good way. It's slightly drier sounding but is tighter sounding in all regards with better refined treble for sure. I was initially just wanting to send it in for unison upgrade but I love the way it sounds like it is.

IMO the jump from 699 to 1299 does not compute in the way of $600 more gets you 2x better sound. It is a better dac though. Try and grab a well loved used one for $800 tops, it's nice to have 2 of the best dacs bang for the buck soundwise if you like multibit sound. They do have the best sense of imaging and transients that delta sigma can't touch IMO. If you want a different and enjoyable sound and something just to mess with I'd get a modius. Probably the best bang for th buck non multibit dac there is and since swapping to ESS people are saying it's better than the original AKM version.

Also wanted to add for me personally A/B ing 2 dacs on the spots switching back and forth to tell differences is useless. I only hear differences after I use a dac non stop for a length of time. Then I switch dacs and relisten to the stuff I had been on previous dac. Only then does it become more apparent the subtleties and differences in dacs sounds. The output stages and the input have a lot to do with the sound of a dac. Not just the same Chinese chips on cookie cutter designs to achieve the best artificial testing results output. Of course all "those" dacs will sound the same.


----------



## senorx12562

Rattle said:


> I have LP and JOT2 as well as Bifrost 2. At the end of 2021 I got a really sweet deal on a Gungnir a2 with gen 5 USB. Source is USB and Jriver. On my headphone rigs I immediately heard a difference. The A2 is definitely a bump up in sound quality. It's not as fat or warm sounding as the Bifrost 2 but in a good way. It's slightly drier sounding but is tighter sounding in all regards with better refined treble for sure. I was initially just wanting to send it in for unison upgrade but I love the way it sounds like it is.
> 
> IMO the jump from 699 to 1299 does not compute in the way of $600 more gets you 2x better sound. It is a better dac though. Try and grab a well loved used one for $800 tops, it's nice to have 2 of the best dacs bang for the buck soundwise if you like multibit sound. They do have the best sense of imaging and transients that delta sigma can't touch IMO. If you want a different and enjoyable sound and something just to mess with I'd get a modius. Probably the best bang for th buck non multibit dac there is and since swapping to ESS people are saying it's better than the original AKM version.
> 
> Also wanted to add for me personally A/B ing 2 dacs on the spots switching back and forth to tell differences is useless. I only hear differences after I use a dac non stop for a length of time. Then I switch dacs and relisten to the stuff I had been on previous dac. Only then does it become more apparent the subtleties and differences in dacs sounds. The output stages and the input have a lot to do with the sound of a dac. Not just the same Chinese chips on cookie cutter designs to achieve the best artificial testing results output. Of course all "those" dacs will sound the same.


Apparently whoever minds the Schiit website is unaware of the availability of an ESS equipped Modius, as was I.


----------



## Rattle

senorx12562 said:


> Apparently whoever minds the Schiit website is unaware of the availability of an ESS equipped Modius, as was I.


Yes my bad the modi 3e is equipped as you say for 129 the modius is probably going that route as well. What I meant to say in previous post is the modi 3e is damn near modius level now so I think modius will be even better if that does happen. Thanks for the correction lol


----------



## Guidostrunk

Rattle said:


> I have LP and JOT2 as well as Bifrost 2. At the end of 2021 I got a really sweet deal on a Gungnir a2 with gen 5 USB. Source is USB and Jriver. On my headphone rigs I immediately heard a difference. The A2 is definitely a bump up in sound quality. It's not as fat or warm sounding as the Bifrost 2 but in a good way. It's slightly drier sounding but is tighter sounding in all regards with better refined treble for sure. I was initially just wanting to send it in for unison upgrade but I love the way it sounds like it is.
> 
> IMO the jump from 699 to 1299 does not compute in the way of $600 more gets you 2x better sound. It is a better dac though. Try and grab a well loved used one for $800 tops, it's nice to have 2 of the best dacs bang for the buck soundwise if you like multibit sound. They do have the best sense of imaging and transients that delta sigma can't touch IMO. If you want a different and enjoyable sound and something just to mess with I'd get a modius. Probably the best bang for th buck non multibit dac there is and since swapping to ESS people are saying it's better than the original AKM version.
> 
> Also wanted to add for me personally A/B ing 2 dacs on the spots switching back and forth to tell differences is useless. I only hear differences after I use a dac non stop for a length of time. Then I switch dacs and relisten to the stuff I had been on previous dac. Only then does it become more apparent the subtleties and differences in dacs sounds. The output stages and the input have a lot to do with the sound of a dac. Not just the same Chinese chips on cookie cutter designs to achieve the best artificial testing results output. Of course all "those" dacs will sound the same.


Don't hesitate to get the Unison bro. I held out for months with gen 5. I totally wasted those months I held out. Unison is pretty significant in upgrade. Of course imo.


----------



## Voxata

Rattle said:


> I have LP and JOT2 as well as Bifrost 2. At the end of 2021 I got a really sweet deal on a Gungnir a2 with gen 5 USB. Source is USB and Jriver. On my headphone rigs I immediately heard a difference. The A2 is definitely a bump up in sound quality. It's not as fat or warm sounding as the Bifrost 2 but in a good way. It's slightly drier sounding but is tighter sounding in all regards with better refined treble for sure. I was initially just wanting to send it in for unison upgrade but I love the way it sounds like it is.
> 
> IMO the jump from 699 to 1299 does not compute in the way of $600 more gets you 2x better sound. It is a better dac though. Try and grab a well loved used one for $800 tops, it's nice to have 2 of the best dacs bang for the buck soundwise if you like multibit sound. They do have the best sense of imaging and transients that delta sigma can't touch IMO. If you want a different and enjoyable sound and something just to mess with I'd get a modius. Probably the best bang for th buck non multibit dac there is and since swapping to ESS people are saying it's better than the original AKM version.
> 
> Also wanted to add for me personally A/B ing 2 dacs on the spots switching back and forth to tell differences is useless. I only hear differences after I use a dac non stop for a length of time. Then I switch dacs and relisten to the stuff I had been on previous dac. Only then does it become more apparent the subtleties and differences in dacs sounds. The output stages and the input have a lot to do with the sound of a dac. Not just the same Chinese chips on cookie cutter designs to achieve the best artificial testing results output. Of course all "those" dacs will sound the same.



Interestingly enough I ended up going the opposite direction. The Gungnir A2, while wider sounding had this grating aggressive nature to it eventually. It was just a bit too forward for my system. The Bifrost 2 on the other hand would never cause fatigue and still sounded fantastic. I'll miss the wider staging and bit more textured bass but I'll take fatigue free listening any day. Plus, the SE outputs on the Bifrost 2 are far more serviceable.


----------



## Rattle

Voxata said:


> Interestingly enough I ended up going the opposite direction. The Gungnir A2, while wider sounding had this grating aggressive nature to it eventually. It was just a bit too forward for my system. The Bifrost 2 on the other hand would never cause fatigue and still sounded fantastic. I'll miss the wider staging and bit more textured bass but I'll take fatigue free listening any day. Plus, the SE outputs on the Bifrost 2 are far more serviceable.



Yeah I don't find either dac grating or to cause fatigue. Actually the Bifrost 2 is a bit laid back. Also the SE out being inferior on Gungnir is way overblown IMO.


----------



## Voxata

Rattle said:


> Yeah I don't find either dac grating or to cause fatigue. Actually the Bifrost 2 is a bit laid back. Also the SE out being inferior on Gungnir is way overblown IMO.



     Every setup is different, if you've got a laid back setup the Gungnir A2 may be the perfect fit. After owning it for a considerable amount of time it'd get a bit forward with my LS50 speakers, for sure. The Bifrost 2 with the more laid back presentation really fits better in my system. I felt the difference between SE and BAL was pretty obvious, as the LS50 was quite revealing of it. The SE wasn't BAD, it just wasn't up to the BAL performance of the Gungnir.


----------



## Dana Reed

I wasn’t aware of an A2 upgrade to Gungnir?  When did that happen?


----------



## US Blues

Dana Reed said:


> I wasn’t aware of an A2 upgrade to Gungnir?  When did that happen?



I'm not sure when it became available, but I upgraded my Gungnir OG to multibit last year and it is worth every penny of the investment.


----------



## senorx12562 (Feb 21, 2022)

US Blues said:


> I'm not sure when it became available, but I upgraded my Gungnir OG to multibit last year and it is worth every penny of the investment.


My Gungnir MB is a B sn, which supposedly designates the A2, was purchased new on 9/21/17. I think it was one of the first A2s, if such a thing even exists. I say the latter because absent Schiit admitting such a thing exists, eh... who knows? I have seen pix of differences in the components on the pcb, but can't vouch for them. That said, not once since I received it have I even thought about trying to improve upon it, because I am certain it cannot be improved for the $700-800 I could get out of it and I am not even sure that I could improve upon it for the $1250 I paid for it. It ain't leaving, but ymmv.

N.B. I don't use the usb input or the SE outputs, and don't need volume control, mqa, dsd, or >192k sample rate conversion. My opinion is based on sound alone. Reports from ears I trust would indicate that the Bifrost 2 is voiced more like the Gungnir MB A1 and the Yggy A2, the Gungnir A2 more like the Yggy A1, and I haven't heard even a small portion of the dacs available (15-20), and nothing over $2k in my own system.


----------



## Dana Reed

US Blues said:


> I'm not sure when it became available, but I upgraded my Gungnir OG to multibit last year and it is worth every penny of the investment.


Oh, I was thinking of something more akin to Yggy A2, where it was still multibit but improved output stage.  My Gungnir was multibit when I got it.  Still waiting on sending it in for Unison, as I’m hoping there might be some more options like the less is more, more is less, etc as there are for Yggy.


----------



## Sonic Defender

TomSix said:


> The sort of argument as you are presently making does emerge over and over again in audio circles.
> 
> Its a variation/extension of the argument that if two pieces of equipment measure very similarly then they should sound essentially identical in blind tests —but we know beyond any reasonable doubt that this is simply not at all the case universally.
> 
> ...


And what you are advocating for is an approach where anything anybody says, as long as they really believe what they are saying is considered to be evidence of the same rigor as proper testing. Any theory that cannot be falsified is by definition an invalid theory. It feels like to me you are presenting a theory that can't be falsified or tested as the only evidence that can be offered is an inscrutable internal experience of another person. Somebody saying to me trust me I hear it is about as valid a piece of evidence as a psychic telling me they peered into the future and know when I'm going to die.


----------



## Dana Reed

Sonic Defender said:


> And what you are advocating for is an approach where anything anybody says, as long as they really believe what they are saying is considered to be evidence of the same rigor as proper testing. Any theory that cannot be falsified is by definition an invalid theory. It feels like to me you are presenting a theory that can't be falsified or tested as the only evidence that can be offered is an inscrutable internal experience of another person. Somebody saying to me trust me I hear it is about as valid a piece of evidence as a psychic telling me they peered into the future and know when I'm going to die.


The costanza theorem


----------



## macdonjh

Sonic Defender said:


> And what you are advocating for is an approach where anything anybody says, as long as they really believe what they are saying is considered to be evidence of the same rigor as proper testing. Any theory that cannot be falsified is by definition an invalid theory. It feels like to me you are presenting a theory that can't be falsified or tested as the only evidence that can be offered is an inscrutable internal experience of another person. Somebody saying to me trust me I hear it is about as valid a piece of evidence as a psychic telling me they peered into the future and know when I'm going to die.


But what if we eventually figure out how human perception works at a quantitative level?  Then there would be testable, provable evidence.

What am I saying!?  If that ever happens, forums like this would dry up and die.  Forget I ever said that.


----------



## TomSix

Sonic Defender said:


> And what you are advocating for is an approach where anything anybody says, as long as they really believe what they are saying is considered to be evidence of the same rigor as proper testing. Any theory that cannot be falsified is by definition an invalid theory. It feels like to me you are presenting a theory that can't be falsified or tested as the only evidence that can be offered is an inscrutable internal experience of another person. Somebody saying to me trust me I hear it is about as valid a piece of evidence as a psychic telling me they peered into the future and know when I'm going to die.


I’m afraid that is simply not a reasonable interpretation of what I have clearly expressed. 

I am curious, however: why do you even make a presence here?

This is a forum that centers-upon the use of quality equipment for improved enjoyment of recorded music —no?

What specifically do you feel you are getting out of your interactions and participation in head-fi?


----------



## Sonic Defender (Feb 22, 2022)

TomSix said:


> I’m afraid that is simply not a reasonable interpretation of what I have clearly expressed.
> 
> I am curious, however: why do you even make a presence here?
> 
> ...


So now you are subtly trying to suggest that because I don't seem to agree with your position that I should have no right to participate and enjoy this community? Seems like a pretty big reach on your part.


----------



## Sonic Defender (Feb 22, 2022)

TomSix said:


> I’m afraid that is simply not a reasonable interpretation of what I have clearly expressed.
> 
> I am curious, however: why do you even make a presence here?
> 
> ...


But to answer your question, in a world that is suffering in a post truth period a small part of my participation is motivated to defend the applicability of science and that we don't get to pick and choose when the scientific method matters or when we decide to acknowledge how it is carried out. The hearing brain is a pretty well, but of course imperfectly understood system. Certainly the limits of what we accept as audibility are well established with extremely robustly vetted evidence. We don't allow people to question evolution unchallenged because we accept these truths are too well vetted. I am not at all proposing any acceptance of scientific inquiry into audio that is also not extremely well vetted.

I also participate here because I do love gear and I do love music. I listen to music for pleasure and I have done so since the early 1970s. Those are some of the reasons that I come here, but certainly not an exhaustive list.


----------



## TomSix

Sonic Defender said:


> But to answer your question, in a world that is suffering in a post truth period a small part of my participation is motivated to defend the applicability of science and that we don't get to pick and choose when the scientific method matters or when we decide to acknowledge how it is carried out. The hearing brain is a pretty well, but of course imperfectly understood system. Certainly the limits of what we accept as audibility are well established with extremely robustly vetted evidence. We don't allow people to question evolution unchallenged because we accept these truths are too well vetted. I am not at all proposing any acceptance of scientific inquiry into audio that is also not extremely well vetted.
> 
> I also participate here because I do love gear and I do love music. I listen to music for pleasure and I have done so since the early 1970s. Those are some of the reasons that I come here, but certainly not an exhaustive list.


 What utility is there in making empiricism a fetish and then chasing people around as though one is some sort of evangelical priest of science as religion? It’s a dubious stance. I have to question the motivations behind this.

If you do sincerely hold such rigid views, then why not simply buy a Bose Wave Radio and an entry level iPod with stock white earbuds and leave it at that?


----------



## LCMusicLover

Sonic Defender said:


> … The hearing brain is a pretty well, but of course imperfectly understood system…


Missing key point here — human hearing system also has wide individual variability.


----------



## Sonic Defender

TomSix said:


> What utility is there in making empiricism a fetish and then chasing people around as though one is some sort of evangelical priest of science as religion? It’s a dubious stance. I have to question the motivations behind this.
> 
> If you do sincerely hold such rigid views, then why not simply buy a Bose Wave Radio and an entry level iPod with stock white earbuds and leave it at that?


I think we are having two very different conversations and it feels like you may be overextending my points to a somewhat ridiculous end. You are free to sling whatever lightly veiled insults that you wish, not a problem at all. Fortunately I am not going to take them personally.


----------



## Sonic Defender

LCMusicLover said:


> Missing key point here — human hearing system also has wide individual variability.


It is widely variable, but within a well established range. But absolutely your point is valid, there can be significant individual variation person to person, but I have never seen evidence presented of people who have a hearing system so different from the rest of the species. I certainly cannot say that this isn't possible, I would have no way of knowing that, but any claim that is extraordinary requires evidence to support it.


----------



## Alan Sk (Feb 22, 2022)

Sonic Defender said:


> But to answer your question, in a world that is suffering in a post truth period a small part of my participation is motivated to defend the applicability of science and that we don't get to pick and choose when the scientific method matters or when we decide to acknowledge how it is carried out. The hearing brain is a pretty well, but of course imperfectly understood system. Certainly the limits of what we accept as audibility are well established with extremely robustly vetted evidence. We don't allow people to question evolution unchallenged because we accept these truths are too well vetted. I am not at all proposing any acceptance of scientific inquiry into audio that is also not extremely well vetted.
> 
> I also participate here because I do love gear and I do love music. I listen to music for pleasure and I have done so since the early 1970s. Those are some of the reasons that I come here, but certainly not an exhaustive list.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...lds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/page-3798

There are many ways to do blind listening test wrong so be very careful when you camp out with the fanatical objectivist. It is easy to do a blind listening test that is set up to pretty much guarantee a null result. In fact if you are getting nothing but null results with two products with known differences you are doing something wrong.

I like Mike Moffat’s take on it, largely because it matches my experience. Small differences in blind testing done with quick a/b switching become more apparent over time. Basically when you live with a product the differences become greater.


----------



## TomSix (Feb 22, 2022)

Sonic Defender said:


> It is widely variable, but within a well established range. But absolutely your point is valid, there can be significant individual variation person to person, but I have never seen evidence presented of people who have a hearing system so different from the rest of the species. I certainly cannot say that this isn't possible, I would have no way of knowing that, but any claim that is extraordinary requires evidence to support it.


It’s not that the biophysical mechanism of hearing varies much from one healthy person to the next. Who has stated that? That’s not where the variability in hearing perception lies.

The main perceptual differences between individuals lie in the psychoacoustic realm. To but it simply: “it’s a software issue, not a hardware issue.”

Also, let’s let the test equipment do the basic analysis of THD, IMD waveform, noise, dynamic range etc, because it is perfectly suited to produce accurate raw data. Let’s let listeners however, determine the best ways to describe and communicate intersubjectively the relative *subjective* qualities/signatures of various systems, equipment combinations etc. Test equipment simply cannot do this.

If you want to build an audio amplifier that measures *extremely* well according to essentially all standard measurement protocols, then this is relatively easy to accomplish: use the amplifier chain of a high-quality oscilloscope as a model. Problem is, this has been done many many times. The net result is almost universally an amplifier that indeed measures extreme well, but sounds quite sterile, unnatural, un-compelling, bland…. I challenge anyone to name any noteworthy exceptions to this.

Just because acoustic perception is very strongly subjective, that does not mean that it is entirely arbitrary, or that “anything goes“. That would be a very crude and erroneous interpretation of subjectivity.


----------



## macdonjh

I think this is being over-simplified.  In one camp we have science/ measurements, in another there is biological differences/ psycho-acoustics (with a bit of overlap: "everyone does hear differently, but within a known range").  However, there's a third variable: personal preference/ priorities.  Many of the debates about gear in these forums really boil down to how different people prefer to have their music presented to them.  One man's "strong, authoritative foundation" is another's "bloated bass bleeding into the mids".

A good example of this is the Head Gear reviews for the Kennerton Rognir (if I do say so myself, and I did).


----------



## artur9

The objective stance does not seem to take into account the plasticity of the human brain.  In this respect, one's experience with music in all the ways it is produced would have a profound effect on how one would perceive any particular system.  The noise may be apprehended similarly but music is more than noise.

HST, I don't know why this is being discussed on the Gungnir board.  My Gungnir OG with Gen5 USB still sounds fantastic.  At least, I think it would have Gen5 being ordered in 2017....


----------



## TomSix (Feb 23, 2022)

I agree that this philosophical line of discussion has surely gone on too long, and is distracting attention away from the core subject of this thread which is the excellent Schiit Gungnir DAC.

I‘m stepping out of this vexing side debate now.


----------



## bagwell359

macdonjh said:


> A nice Head-fier sold his Gungnir delta-sigma to me so now I have both versions of Gungnir in my living room system. Time for some extended comparisons to see if I like one more than the other.


Findings?


----------



## macdonjh

bagwell359 said:


> Findings?


Nothing solid yet.  Since I received my second Gungnir, I've had a pair of head phones and now a DAC/amp in my house for audition.  I'll be able to listen to my own gear again next week sometime.


----------



## carbonF1 (Mar 4, 2022)

Ordered a black Gungnir about a couple of weeks ago  went back to the website and noticed the shipping estimate for new orders slip to 10-12 weeks.  Still rocking with my Bifrost 2 so don't mind the wait even if the 6-8 week estimate slips, I'll get it when I get it. Out of curiosity did a google search for the AD5781BRUZ chip and it seems some suppliers are reporting 16+ week lead times, and that's just one piece of the pie. Probably shouldn't speculate, for all I know, I am completely wrong. Too bad I'm not interested in silver or Gen 5 USB, those seem to be popping up on the used market lately.

edit: and literally right after I typed this it went back to 6-8 week estimate again. Someone is watching me...


----------



## Fegefeuer

The estimate that counts is the one on the date of purchase. Anything less is welcome of course, but it shouldn't take longer than that.


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## amigastar (Mar 5, 2022)

Hello,
i have a question. I would be interested in the Gungnir Dac (delta-sigma) but at first i want to know if the DAC is rather on the warm side which i would welcome.
Otherwise could you guys recommend me a DAC in the 700$ range which is a bit on the warmer side?


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## Uncle00Jesse

amigastar said:


> Hello,
> i have a question. I would be interested in the Gungnir Dac (delta-sigma) but at first i want to know if the DAC is rather on the warm side which i would welcome.
> Otherwise could you guys recommend me a DAC in the 700$ range which is a bit on the warmer side?


I had a D/S gungnir for about 6 years. One of the first manufactured actually. If you’re looking for a warm DAC, that’s not it… I’d be looking at a Bifrost 2 if that’s more you’re style


----------



## macdonjh

amigastar said:


> Hello,
> i have a question. I would be interested in the Gungnir Dac (delta-sigma) but at first i want to know if the DAC is rather on the warm side which i would welcome.
> Otherwise could you guys recommend me a DAC in the 700$ range which is a bit on the warmer side?





Uncle00Jesse said:


> I had a D/S gungnir for about 6 years. One of the first manufactured actually. If you’re looking for a warm DAC, that’s not it… I’d be looking at a Bifrost 2 if that’s more you’re style



A slightly different opinion: If Schiit DACs were head phones, I would describe the Bifrost I (I haven't heard the Bifrost 2) as V-shaped and the Gungnir as more neutral.  When I bought my Gungnir I was initially surprised to hear less bass than what I hear from my Bifrost I.  After a while though, I decided Gungnir extends just as deep, and bass is well balanced with the rest of the frequency spectrum, it's just not as in-your-face as Bifrost's sound.  

Of course, that may have changed since with Bifrost 2...

I also find the Gungir to be smoother/ less grainy than Bifrost I.  A more refined sound.  Gungnir is good enough I don't wish I had an Yggdrasil.  Bifrost is good enough I haven't sold it even though I have Gungnir.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

macdonjh said:


> A slightly different opinion: If Schiit DACs were head phones, I would describe the Bifrost I (I haven't heard the Bifrost 2) as V-shaped and the Gungnir as more neutral.  When I bought my Gungnir I was initially surprised to hear less bass than what I hear from my Bifrost I.  After a while though, I decided Gungnir extends just as deep, and bass is well balanced with the rest of the frequency spectrum, it's just not as in-your-face as Bifrost's sound.
> 
> Of course, that may have changed since with Bifrost 2...
> 
> I also find the Gungir to be smoother/ less grainy than Bifrost I.  A more refined sound.  Gungnir is good enough I don't wish I had an Yggdrasil.  Bifrost is good enough I haven't sold it even though I have Gungnir.


I had the original bifrost 1 as well. You’re correct that it had more perceived bass than the gungnir, although the latter was a huge step up in resolution, detail, and presentation. I always found the gungnir to be very lean in the bass which frustrated me quite a bit with LCD-3s. I’ve never heard the gumby so I can’t comment on that, but the original question was about the d/s and I can confirm with certainty that the bifrost 2 is warmer, bassier, and (to my ears) much much better overall.


----------



## macdonjh

Uncle00Jesse said:


> I had the original bifrost 1 as well. You’re correct that it had more perceived bass than the gungnir, although the latter was a huge step up in resolution, detail, and presentation. I always found the gungnir to be very lean in the bass which frustrated me quite a bit with LCD-3s. I’ve never heard the gumby so I can’t comment on that, but the original question was about the d/s and I can confirm with certainty that the bifrost 2 is warmer, bassier, and (to my ears) much much better overall.


This was my initial reaction when I received my Gungnir delta-sigma.  However, the more I listened to it the more I heard the bass so it frustrated me less.  I agree, though, Bifrost I (mine is a multi-bit) has more <boom!> than Gungnir.

A bit more (likely redundant for those following this thread): I bought my Bifrost I multi-bit as a close-out when Schiit was introducing "2".  I was stunned and pleased by how much it improved the bass and overall power of what was my only head phone system at the time.  Then I was using me DAC (analog out) -> Mjolnir I -> HE-500.  I thought I was missing "that planar bass" and was frustrated.  Five minutes after adding Bifrost, frustration disappeared.  It reappeared for a while when I added Gungnir (initially to see if climbing the Schiit DAC ladder would add anything important to me), but as I said, the more I listened to the Gungnir, the more I heard its bass and appreciated its detail and refinement.


----------



## tmac17

The only detail that's keeping me from deciding between the BF2 and the Gungnir...is wither or not I want to go all balanced or not. 
I've been told the BF2 sounds it's best via RCA. Currently using the Freya + with active speakers....which are also truly balanced.


----------



## Guidostrunk

tmac17 said:


> The only detail that's keeping me from deciding between the BF2 and the Gungnir...is wither or not I want to go all balanced or not.
> I've been told the BF2 sounds it's best via RCA. Currently using the Freya + with active speakers....which are also truly balanced.


Not sure who told you that but me personally would disagree. Tonally, there's really no difference in SQ between balanced and unbalanced in the BF2. The only difference that I was able to hear when I had the BF2 was a slight difference in the stage and imaging. Balanced seemed just a tad bit deeper and wider. Miniscule at best. 
The biggest difference is just output between the two.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The Gumby(balanced) is the better dac imo. Especially in the micro and macro dynamics, resolution and dimensionality.


----------



## GoKart

So, I've read a good bit of this thread and learnt a lot ...but it's over 400 pages long and there's something I haven't been able to find: difference in sound over USB between Gung MB "B generation" and "C generation" (I'm assuming the models with SN starting with C feature Unison). 

I ask this because I've heard the praises of Unison sung on the BF2.  I'm looking at two DACs, a BF2, and a "gen B" Gung MB. Both pretty much the same money. If I was willing to wait/spend more, would the Unison version of the Gung MB be worth holding out for? Or have a made a grave error in assuming that a gen B Gung MB doesn't have Unison in the first place?


----------



## carbonF1

GoKart said:


> So, I've read a good bit of this thread and learnt a lot ...but it's over 400 pages long and there's something I haven't been able to find: difference in sound over USB between Gung MB "B generation" and "C generation" (I'm assuming the models with SN starting with C feature Unison).
> 
> I ask this because I've heard the praises of Unison sung on the BF2.  I'm looking at two DACs, a BF2, and a "gen B" Gung MB. Both pretty much the same money. If I was willing to wait/spend more, would the Unison version of the Gung MB be worth holding out for? Or have a made a grave error in assuming that a gen B Gung MB doesn't have Unison in the first place?



It should be fairly obvious if a Gungnir has the Unison upgrade, either via the sticker on the back or if the seller knows it had the upgrade done. It's not trivial. Officially, I believe any Gungnir (whether A1/A2 or the D/S version) can get Unison USB, much like the original Bifrost. Based on your location there's a good reason to hold out - Gungnir requires a firmware update to be compatible with Unison that can only be done at the factory. I wonder if Electromod can do it? It's listed on the Schiit website as being one of those places where the update can be done, but, well... However having to be without your DAC for a while to get the upgrade might be worth thinking about. FWIW the Gungnir MB sounds like the better deal overall, if we're talking BF2 price to go without Unison while still having the A2 boards it'd probably be worth it to me, and I use USB 98% of the time for listening to music.

I can't comment directly on Gungnir's performance w/USB - I actually ended up cancelling my Gungnir order and got a Directstream Jr. instead. However, yes, the Unison is indeed quite awesome with Bifrost 2. It also just works in Windows 10 - not something I can say quite as emphatically about the PS Audio unit. I still slightly prefer Coax over Unison on the BF2 but it's really close. I imagine I'd feel the same way if I stuck with a Gungnir.


----------



## senorx12562

GoKart said:


> So, I've read a good bit of this thread and learnt a lot ...but it's over 400 pages long and there's something I haven't been able to find: difference in sound over USB between Gung MB "B generation" and "C generation" (I'm assuming the models with SN starting with C feature Unison).
> 
> I ask this because I've heard the praises of Unison sung on the BF2.  I'm looking at two DACs, a BF2, and a "gen B" Gung MB. Both pretty much the same money. If I was willing to wait/spend more, would the Unison version of the Gung MB be worth holding out for? Or have a made a grave error in assuming that a gen B Gung MB doesn't have Unison in the first place?


My understanding (Schiit won't confirm) is that Gungnir MBs with a B S/N are the A2 version, those with a C or a number are A1, so previous gen. My A2 (purchased 9/17) came with gen5 usb, not Unison. A1s will only have Unison if they've been updated by Schiit. Not sure when Unison  became standard on the Gungnir MB.


----------



## GoKart

Thanks both for your responses. Well, it looks like I've gotten both (the joys on eBay). The Gung MB was £725, and the BF2 was £545.

From the pictures of the Gungnir, I can just about make out the Gen 5 sticker underneath the USB plug. Though that doesn't necessarily mean it hasn't been upgraded, as eluded to regarding future upgrades for me, this being here in the U.K. makes it unlikely in the first place. I do have a DDC (Douk U2 Pro w/ temp clocks). I think that could possibly close the gap between Gen 5 and Unison somewhat. This is my first foray into multibit. I briefly had the Drop Airist R-2R and liked it enough to know that I should travel further down that path but I'm expecting the Gung and BF2 to both impress me next to my current DACs VMV D1SE and Hugo TT (WTS UK/EU BTW).

As for the serial numbers, My understanding was that no letters or SN proceeding with 'A' are Gungnir A1s. B denotes the A2. But, looking on Schiit's own product pictures, the latest iterations that state Unison inclusion, etc. seem to feature SN starting with C; I was assuming that the C denotes the latest revision - A2 with the Unison implementation.


----------



## senorx12562

GoKart said:


> Thanks both for your responses. Well, it looks like I've gotten both (the joys on eBay). The Gung MB was £725, and the BF2 was £545.
> 
> From the pictures of the Gungnir, I can just about make out the Gen 5 sticker underneath the USB plug. Though that doesn't necessarily mean it hasn't been upgraded, as eluded to regarding future upgrades for me, this being here in the U.K. makes it unlikely in the first place. I do have a DDC (Douk U2 Pro w/ temp clocks). I think that could possibly close the gap between Gen 5 and Unison somewhat. This is my first foray into multibit. I briefly had the Drop Airist R-2R and liked it enough to know that I should travel further down that path but I'm expecting the Gung and BF2 to both impress me next to my current DACs VMV D1SE and Hugo TT (WTS UK/EU BTW).
> 
> As for the serial numbers, My understanding was that no letters or SN proceeding with 'A' are Gungnir A1s. B denotes the A2. But, looking on Schiit's own product pictures, the latest iterations that state Unison inclusion, etc. seem to feature SN starting with C; I was assuming that the C denotes the latest revision - A2 with the Unison implementation.


I know for a fact that there are many A1s out in the wild with a "C" serial number. I have no idea what Schiit uses (if anything) to signify Unison equipped units. I have never seen an "A" s/n, not that that means anything. Having never heard the Bifrost 2, I would be curious how you think it compares to the Gungnir MB.


----------



## GoKart

Well, looks like the Gungnir will arrive first. It'll be here tomorrow. BF2 likely on Saturday. Shame that I'm out tomorrow night after work ...and likely hungover on Saturday. I'll probably have to wait until Sunday before I can give both a whirl.

As I'll be using my DDC to feed both DACs, is anyone aware of sonic differences between coax and SPIDIF on these two?


----------



## carbonF1

Congrats on the Gumby and Bifrost 2, wow, getting both at around the same time  . FWIW, the product photos are quite old, except for the first one now featuring the black finish. The same rear photo with the SCH number and C serial has been up there since at least 2018 when I looked on the wayback machine. Wouldn't surprise me if it was even older.

Would also be curious to see your thoughts between the two DACs.


----------



## GoKart

carbonF1 said:


> Congrats on the Gumby and Bifrost 2, wow, getting both at around the same time  . FWIW, the product photos are quite old, except for the first one now featuring the black finish. The same rear photo with the SCH number and C serial has been up there since at least 2018 when I looked on the wayback machine. Wouldn't surprise me if it was even older.
> 
> Would also be curious to see your thoughts between the two DACs.


I will post my thoughts then. I'm hoping to spend all Sunday listening to music; a rarity. I will try and remember that I'm not there purely to analyse the DACs and to actually enjoy the music, but we all know what it's like when we've got new toys...


----------



## GoKart

I wasn't really sure what to expect when I hooked all these DACs up some hours ago but my conclusion was quite easy to arrive at. I'm still fairly new to hifi so I'll abstain from going into any real detail at the risk of making myself sound like a fool.

PC/FLAC > Douk U2 Pro (temp clocks) > VMV D1SE, BF2 & Gungnir A2 MB > LB MC3 > Kinki THR-1 > HE500, DT880 600 Ohm & HD560s

I had all of the DACs and the amp warm up for about two hours prior to listening. I spent most of the time with my primary music headphone, HE500. The first hour I went between last week's acquisition, the VMV, and my new Gungnir. It wasn't immediately obvious to me what was going on but the Schiit sounded "better", somehow. I started the musical journey with many of my standard test tracks, my favourite Tool track, Lateralus, is always first. The odd bit of Zeppelin followed, a track off Quadrophenia, Careless Whisper, True, some live Count Basie, and then back to some more contemporary stuff, Hyperlandia, some local bands with whom I'm familiar with, etc..

In terms of resolution, it was tricky to separate the Gungnir and the D1. I think I was listening for this at first but my attention was drawn to the smoothness of the Schiit. The primary aspect that became obvious after a few different tracks was the sense of space the Schiit presented. It sounded taller most notably but the layering was more complex on the Gungnir too; this helped with instrument separation, sense of depth, and the sound stage being more believable overall. Two other things were apparent during my listening. The Gungnir had better timbre and seemed more dynamic. Kick drums and snare drums were more slammy on the Gungnir. The sense of space that the Gung presents helped me make up my mind fairly quickly that it was the DAC to beat, but the additional impact really surprised me. I thought there was going to be more of a difference in timbre between the Schiit and the VMV but it was pretty close, with the Multi Bit ahead. Though, I purchased the D1SE as it has a reputation as be an excellent allrounder, so it does make sense to me taking that into consideration.

So, I added a few more tracks to my playlist, replaced the VMV with the BF2 and went right back to Tool. The differences between the Gungnir and Bifrost weren't immediately obviously. Tonally, I was expected them to be fairly different. From many of the comments on this thread, the Gungnir A2 has a reputation for being more neutral sounding. I'm not sure whether I'm getting this confused or that the change in the output stage is more noticeable on the DS Gung, but this is a MB model. I know a lot more about what the BF2 is supposed to sound like - 'fun', 'flavoured', 'thunderous and dark', 'engaging', 'exciting'. Though, I found both of these piece of Schiit to sound tonally similar - engaging is the word I'd use. However, what really didn't take me long to discover was the difference in resolution. The BF2 was lacking. I was initially surprised when I noticed this because, as I mentioned above, I'm fairly new to hifi and am always sceptical that I will be able to hear differences between DACs and ever more expensive amps, etc.. Though, as I found, the difference in resolution between the two didn't take long to identify. I think I remember hearing a reviewer say that this was one of the aspects that the BF2 isn't competitive in in this price range. This makes me a little more confident in my assessment. I didn't go as far in my comparisons between the Gungnir and BF2 after noticing the difference in resolution; I just sat back and enjoyed my music through the big boy, occasionally switching back to the Bifrost to confirm my impressions.

These three DACs all sound brilliant, but the Gungnir MB beat out the other two in one way or another from what I've heard today. In my mind, this Gungnir sounds like the love child of these other two DACs. What matters to me most, and what pay particular attention to when critically listening, is drum presentation. I'm a drummer. I restored vintage drums in a past life and studied sound engineering at university many years ago; my attention there almost solely on drum recording and production. I mention this as I wished to caveat everything I've said with that so as to highlight that I put far too much stock in drum presentation in my appreciation of audio gear so your mileage may vary. Though, I hope others will find what I've said useful so they too don't have to buy several DACs a week to find what they're looking for.

TLDR: Gungnir MB wins.


----------



## TomSix

GoKart: Quite Interesting listening comparisons. Good report —Kudos.


----------



## bagwell359

I have a Gumby MB that I bought in late 2015 - a1.  I added the Gen5 myself around 2019.  I thought I read you cannot upgrade the Gen5 at home but must send it in for them to make the change and they must also change the board with the chips on it.

I have heard the more recent chip models and they are brighter and more aggressive.  I did away with my 12k Vinyl collection and my nearly $15k analog rig SOLEY because of how my Gumby sounds.  I will never let it out of my hands.  I have a LG v40 that is supposed to do all the MQA unfolding and sound great.  Piffle my Gumby trounces it with one unfold.


----------



## GoKart

bagwell359 said:


> I have a Gumby MB that I bought in late 2015 - a1.  I added the Gen5 myself around 2019.  I thought I read you cannot upgrade the Gen5 at home but must send it in for them to make the change and they must also change the board with the chips on it.
> 
> I have heard the more recent chip models and they are brighter and more aggressive.  I did away with my 12k Vinyl collection and my nearly $15k analog rig SOLEY because of how my Gumby sounds.  I will never let it out of my hands.  I have a LG v40 that is supposed to do all the MQA unfolding and sound great.  Piffle my Gumby trounces it with one unfold.


I see you have a Ragnarok. I've been eyeing one of those up. I take it it pairs well with the Gumby? What's it's party trick/sound signature?


----------



## bagwell359

GoKart said:


> I see you have a Ragnarok. I've been eyeing one of those up. I take it it pairs well with the Gumby? What's it's party trick/sound signature?


I have the Rag 1.  I have heard the Rag 2.  The Rag 1 can drive speakers very well (KEF, Magnepan .7i, Focal, etc.) And has enough kick using balanced can cables to easily drive the HE-6.

 It's big advantages over the 2 is that's it's Class A to 4 wpc while the 2 just goes to 1, and used its probably under $850.  The disadvantage is it runs very warm, the 2 is an ice cube, and the pre amp in the 1 shortens the far left and right soundstage a bit.  It can be heard but it does not normally damage the music and mostly it's not a factor.  The 2 seems to handle it better.  The low bass is better in the 2, but the bass of the 1 is well above average.  I thought the treble on the 2 was sort of wild but it was a very early unit.  The 1 treble can be a hair mechanical.

The Gumby MB a1 is a gem.  It has the liquidity to take the treble of the 1, and the way the pair handles decay is wonderful.  I find the Gumby MB a2 since it debuted in '17 to be brighter - more on the Sabre side of digital sounding making it less ideal to pair w the Rag 1 and the Rag 2 but far from a dog.  I do not endorse the non MB versions.


----------



## GoKart

I wonder how competent a Rag 1/2 would be with driving something like a Susvara or OG HE6.


----------



## Brubacca

I have Gumby A1 that I had factory upgraded to Unison USB. Its a great match with a Naim Nait 5si.


----------



## emorrison33

GoKart said:


> I wasn't really sure what to expect when I hooked all these DACs up some hours ago but my conclusion was quite easy to arrive at. I'm still fairly new to hifi so I'll abstain from going into any real detail at the risk of making myself sound like a fool.
> 
> PC/FLAC > Douk U2 Pro (temp clocks) > VMV D1SE, BF2 & Gungnir A2 MB > LB MC3 > Kinki THR-1 > HE500, DT880 600 Ohm & HD560s
> 
> ...


How are the drums comparing the Bifrost 2 with the Gungnir?  I'm thinking it might be my next "upgrade".  I'm a drummer myself, so that is what I concentrate on mostly.


----------



## GoKart

emorrison33 said:


> How are the drums comparing the Bifrost 2 with the Gungnir?  I'm thinking it might be my next "upgrade".  I'm a drummer myself, so that is what I concentrate on mostly.


That's where I found the difference in resolution to be most obvious. The clarity of decay of snare hits particularly, but all drum hits; the extra detail in the wash of cymbals; being able to more clearly here the character of the recording environment/reverb, etc., this all adds to drums sounding more real. The extra resolution also has the added benefit of being to better identify gear, the type of drums, how they're tuned, heads used, the brand of cymbals, etc., details often hidden by production techniques/lost in the mix. I'd caution you by saying what you listen to likely makes a difference, but as you can see from my post, I went through a decent range of music; the difference in resolution was apparent across it.

I was hoping to not hear a significant enough difference so I could happily keep the BF2 and sell the Gungnir on, save myself some cash, but alas, the differences were obvious to me...


----------



## emorrison33

GoKart said:


> That's where I found the difference in resolution to be most obvious. The clarity of decay of snare hits particularly, but all drum hits; the extra detail in the wash of cymbals; being able to more clearly here the character of the recording environment/reverb, etc., this all adds to drums sounding more real. The extra resolution also has the added benefit of being to better identify gear, the type of drums, how they're tuned, heads used, the brand of cymbals, etc., details often hidden by production techniques/lost in the mix. I'd caution you by saying what you listen to likely makes a difference, but as you can see from my post, I went through a decent range of music; the difference in resolution was apparent across it.
> 
> I was hoping to not hear a significant enough difference so I could happily keep the BF2 and sell the Gungnir on, save myself some cash, but alas, the differences were obvious to me...


Thanks so much!  People that aren't drummers, just don't know how it sounds...to us.  We get that first initial hit because we are so close, that first millisecond when you hit the skin or the cymbal.  Also, things like being able to tell the difference between a wooden tip stick or a nylon are the little things I look for, and like what you said....type of drums, tuning, etc.  If the Gungnir has that little bit of extra resolution, I would consider it an upgrade.  Thanks again for your thoughts! Most appreciated.


----------



## Rattle

I have both BF2 and Gungnir A2 gen 5 USB.

It's easier to tell them apart on my headphone setups then my 2 channel setup. I prefer the Gungnir on my headphone setups using USB on both. Gungnir is more detailed and appears not to slam as hard (slightly) but is also less bloomy and more detailed. BF2 is more masked in the lows and more one note though, Gungnir has much better definition and separation of frequencies. Slightly dryer sounding but in a positive and better way.


----------



## Orange5o

Brubacca said:


> I have Gumby A1 that I had factory upgraded to Unison USB. Its a great match with a Naim Nait 5si.


Also have a 5si, currently with a BF2. Curious, have you ever compared the BF2 with the Gumby on your 5si? I'm considering Gumby or Yggy next...


----------



## Brubacca

Orange5o said:


> Also have a 5si, currently with a BF2. Curious, have you ever compared the BF2 with the Gumby on your 5si? I'm considering Gumby or Yggy next...


I'm sorry no.  BF2 came out after I had my combo.


----------



## Orange5o

Is the gungnir the dac in their line that has gone the longest without a new version? Wondering the likelihood of a new update and whether it is possible to see an AES input...


----------



## Brubacca

Gungnir MultiBit supposedly went through a silent revision a couple years ago. Community calls it A1 and A2. From what I've read A1 is more analog sounding smooth/refined. A2 has a sonic signature a bit more aggressive. I have not heard an A2 (newer) version. I know some people seek one over the other. 

Mine is A1 and I upgraded to Unison USB.


----------



## bagwell359

Brubacca said:


> Gungnir MultiBit supposedly went through a silent revision a couple years ago. Community calls it A1 and A2. From what I've read A1 is more analog sounding smooth/refined. A2 has a sonic signature a bit more aggressive. I have not heard an A2 (newer) version. I know some people seek one over the other.
> 
> Mine is A1 and I upgraded to Unison USB.


I think the change was in '17.  Mine is an A1, upgraded to USB.  I liked it better than the Yggy at the time (early '16)  Agree it's more pleasing to an analog head than the A2.  Will never sell it.  Only the HE-500 is on that same list.


----------



## davidflas

I've had my A1 Gungnir since 2013, upgraded it to Multibit, but still running Gen 2 USB, and I love the sound. I am going to spring for Unison USB soon, though, looking forward to the improvements it brings.


----------



## RCBinTN (May 2, 2022)

davidflas said:


> I've had my A1 Gungnir since 2013, upgraded it to Multibit, but still running Gen 2 USB, and I love the sound. I am going to spring for Unison USB soon, though, looking forward to the improvements it brings.


I've heard the Unison brings a definite improvement especially over Gen2 and even over Gen5, which I still have. I just don't want to send in my DAC and be without it. I went from Gen2 to Gen5 and it was a big improvement for me. At the same time, I went from A1 to A2 analog stage, which was indeed a real thing. I was a beta tester for Mike on the A2. I think it was to qualify back-up parts for the Gungnir ... not really a SQ change.



emorrison33 said:


> Thanks so much!  People that aren't drummers, just don't know how it sounds...to us.  We get that first initial hit because we are so close, that first millisecond when you hit the skin or the cymbal.  Also, things like being able to tell the difference between a wooden tip stick or a nylon are the little things I look for, and like what you said....type of drums, tuning, etc.  If the Gungnir has that little bit of extra resolution, I would consider it an upgrade.  Thanks again for your thoughts! Most appreciated.


Very interesting. I am a big fan of great drumming (my latest - Brian Blade) and can clearly hear the different drum and cymbal tones with the Gumby DAC. The drums sound real, to me. Can honestly say I probably wouldn't know the difference between drumsticks, however. You must be a drummer, @emorrison33 ... what else should I be listening for? Thanks, mate.


----------



## emorrison33

RCBinTN said:


> I've heard the Unison brings a definite improvement especially over Gen2 and even over Gen5, which I still have. I just don't want to send in my DAC and be without it. I went from Gen2 to Gen5 and it was a big improvement for me. At the same time, I went from A1 to A2 analog stage, which was indeed a real thing. I was a beta tester for Mike on the A2. I think it was to qualify back-up parts for the Gungnir ... not really a SQ change.
> 
> 
> Very interesting. I am a big fan of great drumming (my latest - Brian Blade) and can clearly hear the different drum and cymbal tones with the Gumby DAC. The drums sound real, to me. Can honestly say I probably wouldn't know the difference between drumsticks, however. You must be a drummer, @emorrison33 ... what else should I be listening for? Thanks, mate.


Well, now that's a loaded question! LOL Can you personally tell the difference as to WHERE the drummer is hitting the drum or cymbal?  There is a difference on cymbals especially, the "bell", the edge, the middle.   If yes, then we can go from there....probably be better for a PM kinda thing.  We can go deep, even get into specifics in the tuning of the heads, or even what make the drums are.  Get song specific.  We seem to have the same taste in music though, if I go from posts on "What are you listening to right now?" thread.


----------



## RCBinTN

Certainly the cymbal strikes, and somewhat on the drum strikes themselves. I don't know much at all about drum tuning. I have a pal in Tel Aviv who's a pro drummer and he sends YouTubes by e.g. Simon Phillips about certain drumming techniques. I really favor drumming with passion so more jazz-oriented over guys like Billy Cobham. And, to me, rock drumming is necessary but kinda boring. If you can recommend drummers who you like, via PM, that would be cool. Thanks in advance


----------



## macdonjh

OK, I promised this weeks ago, and here it finally is: 

As a bit of a refresher, the story behind my Gungnir DACs is: I bought a Gungnir delta-sigma after enjoying my Bifrost I multi-bit simply to find out if climbing the Schiit ladder would bring any benefits which were meaningful to me. The Bifrost was my first foray into outboard DACs (after thirty-five years as an audio hobbyist), and it was a revelation. Up until Bifrost was delivered I’d been using the analog outputs of my DAPs to drive my Mjolnir I amp and HiFiMAN HE-500 head phones. I’d been frustrated with the lack of bass presence and had been looking for different head phones to scratch that itch. Along came Bifrost II, which made Bifrost I multi-bit affordable enough as a close-out I couldn’t resist trying it. That worked so well I wondered if Gungnir would be as big a step up, so I bought one.

Gungnir delta-sigma proved to be good enough I wanted to try the multi-bit version, so off it went to California for more bits. But, of course, I couldn’t do a proper comparison since I no longer had a delta-sigma. So, I bought another delta-sigma and here we are.

What I Listened to: My Gungnirs are in my living room system:
PC using JRiver Media Center -> Gungnir -> Sys -> Aegir.

The Aegir powers either my HiFiMAN HE-500 or Stax SRD-7/ SR Lambda head phones. I’ve had the former for ten years or so and the latter for a couple of years, so both are familiar, long-term references for me.

First impressions: My first impressions are the reason I decided to buy another Gungnir and write about this face-off. OK, sure, my Gungnir was gone for five weeks or so getting bitted-up, so once it came back, any comparisons I could do were from memory. Be that as it may, contrary to the majority of folk who have voiced their opinions, I wasn’t wowed by the Gungnir multi-bit. The vast majority of the music I was listening to:  rock, pop and jazz with electric and electronic instruments, didn’t prove to be good vehicles for judging the differences between the units. I needed some concentrated listening to music played with acoustic instruments.

Soundstage: All of my time with my Gungnirs is spent with head phones. Sound staging is not something I’m good at judging when listening to head phones. I miss too many spatial cues.

I’ll dispense with most of the discussion about frequency response. Here are a couple of things I noticed:

Cymbals rendered by the delta-sigma are a bit more artificial-sounding compared to the multi-bit card to my ear. It’s not that the top end is offensive or fatiguing, but more bits equals “more smoother”, more shimmer instead of more brassy metallic sound (and not in a good way).
The delta-sigma is sharper in the mids, to me distractingly so. Unfortunately, there’s a peak which emphasized those notes in a biting way. It brought back memories of staying away from metal dome tweeters during the ‘90s because I didn’t like “hot treble”. In addition, the upper mids and highs were a bit shallower, more brittle sounding when reduced to one bit than when reproduced by a chorus of bits.
Multi-bit bass was stronger and fuller than delta-sigma bass. The difference is, most of the time to me, subtle, but it’s there.

I found two albums quite telling while I was comparing these two DACs head-to-head. The first was Keith Jarrett’s _The Koln Concert_. Through the multi-bit version, Keith’s piano was more whole-sounding. I could hear the strike of the hammer, the initial fundamental and then, as the note decayed, I could hear the fundamental bloom into all the harmonics and overtones as well as blend with the resonance of the sound board. All this happening with a sense of left-to-right placement across the full width of the key board. With the delta-sigma variation, the notes simply weren’t as full or as detailed. The transient and decay were there, but much of the harmonic bloom and resonance were missing. In addition, with the stronger bass of the multi-bit version, Keith’s rhythm was easier to hear through the melody of his right-hand playing.

The second album was the soundtrack for _Blade Runner: 2049_. This album dispelled any doubt for me: Gungnir multi-bit has stronger, more nuanced, more detailed bass than Gungnir delta-sigma. I really think the multi-bit has bass up in level a bit compared to the delta-sigma. But more than that, there is more weight, more impact, more life at the music’s foundation.

Conclusion: In a nutshell: Gungnir multi-bit > Gungnir delta-sigma > Bifrost I multi-bit > Modi multi-bit. I’ve not heard a Modi delta-sigma, and I’ve said numerous times Gungnir has satisfied my curiosity and I am not interested in Yggdrasil anymore. Not that I think Yggdrasil is not an improvement over Gungnir, I’m sure it is. Even without hearing it, though, I am confident the extras brought by Yggdrasil would either be inaudible to me, or not important to me. Gungnir represents the highest I am willing to climb on the curve of diminishing returns.

Now that is out of the way, here is my reasoning. I’ve listened to my son’s Modi multi-bit from time to time and it’s great. My Bifrost I multi-bit is greater. There is a noticeable increase in dimensionality to the music, more nuance, more detail.  Music is more complete, a bass-to-treble increase in detail and richness. Making the step up to Gungnir delta-sigma brought not so much detail as refinement. Gungnir’s treble is smoother than Bifrost’s (remember, Bifrost I...). Bifrost’s is extended, but a bit harsher, a bit more fatiguing. Similarly, bass isn’t as even, either in response or in timbre, from Bifrost as from Gungnir. To me, Bifrost I emphasized low bass over mid-bass which gives it the power I like so much. But Gungnir has more even bass level from the low midrange all the way down to subterranean rumble. Add to that the smoothness of the sound as well as more realized, fleshed-out notes, and Gungnir has more to offer. Gungnir multi-bit adds even a touch more of the latter to what the delta-sigma version brings. I think the Gungnir is a worthwhile upgrade over Bifrost I multi-bit. If I am “just listening”, Gungnir is smoother and is fatigue free.  However, if I am listening more critically the extra details are there for me to hear.

Delta-sigma versus multi-bit for me is a harder question. Spoiler: I’m going to keep my multi-bit. But looking at it from a value perspective makes for a harder analysis. Gungnir delta-sigma is good enough that with a bit of time and “brain burn” I didn’t miss the multi-bit sound very much. And let’s face it, the cost of the extra bits is pretty steep compared to the delta-sigma version.  Even more true now with the used prices of Gungnir delta-sigma.

I’ve been asked “the value question” directly in the here in this thread, so here it is: if you want the most detail available but cannot or do not want to afford an Yggdrasil, Gungnir multi-bit offers more than either Bifrost I multi-bit or Gungnir delta-sigma.  To me, especially if you listen primarily to “small group” music, multi-bit shows its capabilities even more than if you prefer large ensembles. The more complex the arrangements got, the more the differences between the Gungnir multi-bit and delta-sigma got lost to me. For others, though, it may me exactly the opposite: the complexity of music played by dozens of instruments may be exactly when the greater detail of the multi-bit shines. Those are my two cents.


----------



## macdonjh

bagwell359 said:


> I have the Rag 1.  I have heard the Rag 2.  The Rag 1 can drive speakers very well (KEF, Magnepan .7i, Focal, etc.) And has enough kick using balanced can cables to easily drive the HE-6.
> 
> It's big advantages over the 2 is that's it's Class A to 4 wpc while the 2 just goes to 1, and used its probably under $850.  The disadvantage is it runs very warm, the 2 is an ice cube, and the pre amp in the 1 shortens the far left and right soundstage a bit.  It can be heard but it does not normally damage the music and mostly it's not a factor.  The 2 seems to handle it better.  The low bass is better in the 2, but the bass of the 1 is well above average.  I thought the treble on the 2 was sort of wild but it was a very early unit.  The 1 treble can be a hair mechanical.
> 
> The Gumby MB a1 is a gem.  It has the liquidity to take the treble of the 1, and the way the pair handles decay is wonderful.  I find the Gumby MB a2 since it debuted in '17 to be brighter - more on the Sabre side of digital sounding making it less ideal to pair w the Rag 1 and the Rag 2 but far from a dog.  I do not endorse the non MB versions.





GoKart said:


> I wonder how competent a Rag 1/2 would be with driving something like a Susvara or OG HE6.


I don't own a Ragnarok, but coincidentally, I just bought a pair of HE-6 from a fellow Head-Fier.  In my bedroom I drive them with a Mjolnir I.  At first, I didn't think Thor's hammer had enough oomph.  But, surprisingly, the HE-6 sound very credible at low levels (they are better in this respect than my HE-500), so the Mjolnir I does well with them.  Even when I want to crank it, I don't have to turn the volume knob "hard over", but I don't have much left when I get to what I consider "ludicrous speed".

In my living room system, I use an Aegir.  The HE-6 (and the HE-500 and my Stax) sound great with that amp.  Plenty of power, plenty of head room, plenty of air and speed.  That said, the Aegir doesn't sound great with every head phone I've tried.  I had a tour pair of the Kennerton Rognir for a couple of weeks, and those head phones liked the Mjolnir I better than the Aegir.  I decided the reason was an impedance mismatch: the Aegir was designed for 8 Ohm loads and didn't like the 42 Ohms of the Rognir.  Of course, the HE-500 and HE-6 are even a bit higher (50 Ohms or so, I think), so maybe that wasn't the reason.  Another contributing factor may be efficiency: the Rognir are much more efficient that the HiFiMAN head phones, and thus didn't allow me to turn the volume knob up as much.  Might have kept the Aegir at too low an output level, into a load it wasn't comfortable with, when I had the Rognir.  




bagwell359 said:


> I think the change was in '17.  Mine is an A1, upgraded to USB.  I liked it better than the Yggy at the time (early '16)  Agree it's more pleasing to an analog head than the A2.  Will never sell it.  Only the HE-500 is on that same list.


I love my HE-500.  I've had them for at least ten years.  Until two weeks ago, they had been upgrade-proof.  But then the HE-6 arrived...

Like you, though, I'm keeping my HE-500.



RCBinTN said:


> I've heard the Unison brings a definite improvement especially over Gen2 and even over Gen5, which I still have. I just don't want to send in my DAC and be without it. I went from Gen2 to Gen5 and it was a big improvement for me. At the same time, I went from A1 to A2 analog stage, which was indeed a real thing. I was a beta tester for Mike on the A2. I think it was to qualify back-up parts for the Gungnir ... not really a SQ change.
> 
> 
> Very interesting. I am a big fan of great drumming (my latest - Brian Blade) and can clearly hear the different drum and cymbal tones with the Gumby DAC. The drums sound real, to me. Can honestly say I probably wouldn't know the difference between drumsticks, however. You must be a drummer, @emorrison33 ... what else should I be listening for? Thanks, mate.


I'm listening to my first album with Brian Blade right now.  I think you're the one who posted the Chick Corea Trio _Trilogy_ on the "What Are You Listening to Right Now" thread?

I can't believe anyone would say rock drumming can be boring.  '80s rock or pop-rock was the apex of drumming world-wide.  There is no way to improve on bum-bum ba/bum time-keeping.


----------



## RCBinTN

macdonjh said:


> I can't believe anyone would say rock drumming can be boring. '80s rock or pop-rock was the apex of drumming world-wide. There is no way to improve on bum-bum ba/bum time-keeping.


I just did. Depends on your definition of "drumming."


----------



## Rowethren

Decided it is time to sell my Gungnir Multibit if anyone here is interested https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/schiit-gungnir-multibit.25153/


----------



## RCBinTN

macdonjh said:


> OK, I promised this weeks ago, and here it finally is:
> 
> As a bit of a refresher, the story behind my Gungnir DACs is: I bought a Gungnir delta-sigma after enjoying my Bifrost I multi-bit simply to find out if climbing the Schiit ladder would bring any benefits which were meaningful to me. The Bifrost was my first foray into outboard DACs (after thirty-five years as an audio hobbyist), and it was a revelation. Up until Bifrost was delivered I’d been using the analog outputs of my DAPs to drive my Mjolnir I amp and HiFiMAN HE-500 head phones. I’d been frustrated with the lack of bass presence and had been looking for different head phones to scratch that itch. Along came Bifrost II, which made Bifrost I multi-bit affordable enough as a close-out I couldn’t resist trying it. That worked so well I wondered if Gungnir would be as big a step up, so I bought one.
> 
> ...


I finally read this entire post - well done. My journey was to find a rig to drive the HD800 to my satisfaction. Not an easy task! The upgrade from Gungnir D/S to MB was one step and probably the most significant step, for me. The improvement in the bass was the most telling - with the D/S the bass was just thin. I've stayed with the Gungnir MB for several years now and am satisfied with the sound. I have heard the Yggy with the HD800, and the SQ was great, but that was also with the Woo Audio WA-5 amp. It was at a headphone meet here many years ago; Dan Clark had brought his rig from California. At that time, he was with Mr. Speakers and they'd just launched their Ether HPs. Now the company is known as Dan Clark Audio.


----------



## macdonjh

RCBinTN said:


> I finally read this entire post - well done. My journey was to find a rig to drive the HD800 to my satisfaction. Not an easy task! The upgrade from Gungnir D/S to MB was one step and probably the most significant step, for me. The improvement in the bass was the most telling - with the D/S the bass was just thin. I've stayed with the Gungnir MB for several years now and am satisfied with the sound. I have heard the Yggy with the HD800, and the SQ was great, but that was also with the Woo Audio WA-5 amp. It was at a headphone meet here many years ago; Dan Clark had brought his rig from California. At that time, he was with Mr. Speakers and they'd just launched their Ether HPs. Now the company is known as Dan Clark Audio.


Why thank you.

I only have an hour's worth of experience with the HD-800.  A friend brought his pair over for me to hear.  With electronics I like, I didn't like the HD-800.  I remember them being thin and hollow to my ears.  Since I liked my electronics I was unwilling to do the work required to provide what the Sennheisers would need to be satisfying for me.  Perhaps my loss.

I am also satisfied with the Gungnir, actually in both incarnations.  As I said, I wasn't disappointed with the multi-bit card, per se, just that I wasn't immediately thunderstruck by it as I was with my Bifrost I MB and as I thought I might be with the Gungnir MB after reading this and other threads.  There are moments, though: right now I'm listening to that Chick Corea album, _Trilogy_, you've posted twice in What Are You Listening to Right Now.  Every so often I say to myself, "Wow...".  The Gumby is a good piece of kit.  And _Trilogy_ is a good album (if you like acoustic jazz).


----------



## MacMan31

is the Gungnir a worthwhile upgrade over the Bifrost 2? There is a Gungnir Gen 5 up for grabs here. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649855634-schiit-gungnir-multibit-dac/


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## davidflas

I own a 2013 vintage Gungnir. It started its life as a delta sigma model with Gen. 1 USB. I self installed Gen 2 USB, and sent it back to the mothership to upgrade to multibit. I'm finally upgrading the USB to Unison. The amazing thing is that I ordered the upgrade yesterday, and today I got the email saying they are ready for me to send my Gungnir back to them. I thought it would take much longer. In the meantime, a Modius will be taking its place. It's bit of a downgrade, but hopefully my Gumby will be back soon.


----------



## GoKart

MacMan31 said:


> is the Gungnir a worthwhile upgrade over the Bifrost 2? There is a Gungnir Gen 5 up for grabs here. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649855634-schiit-gungnir-multibit-dac/



From my experience, yes. But my experience came about because I accidentally won both in auctions for similar prices. When I heard the sound difference between the two, the little extra the Gumby cost definitely made sense for me to keep it. I'd say it's still a worthy upgrade over the BF2 in terms of performance, but it's the factor of diminishing returns that you have to be comfortable with; comparing the cost of each unit new, roughly double the price, is it double the performance? What is performance? This is a subjective question for each listener dependant on preferences, hearing ability, and other kit in the chain. When I was comparing the two, the difference I heard would warrant me spending significantly more than I paid for the upgrade. However, I've got a fairly well-paying job so it's not as tough a decision for me to make than it may be for others faced with the same choice.


----------



## tmac17 (May 10, 2022)

MacMan31 said:


> is the Gungnir a worthwhile upgrade over the Bifrost 2? There is a Gungnir Gen 5 up for grabs here. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649855634-schiit-gungnir-multibit-dac/


I'd say so. But the question I'd ask myself is if gen 5 is worth it or if u should wait for a unison to show up on the used market.


----------



## GoKart

tmac17 said:


> I'd say so. But the question I'd ask myself is if gen 5 is worth it or if u should wait for a unison to show up on the used market.


I too considered this when I was bidding on my Gungnir. However, I do use a DDC. I was satisfied that, although Schiit's Unison was desirable, having a dedicated DDC provided the little bit extra that I was concerned about missing out on.


----------



## schneller (May 11, 2022)

Orange5o said:


> Is the gungnir the dac in their line that has gone the longest without a new version? Wondering the likelihood of a new update and whether it is possible to see an AES input...



Yes, it is. Seemingly the "least loved" DAC but maybe it would get more love if Schiit updated it!!! Duh! Every other DAC has gone through two or three iterations.

I prefer its form-factor versus Yggdrasil; the smaller case. I have no doubt that Schiit could do a better job of bridging the Yggdrasil OG and the BF2 with a DAC that offer Autonomy, Unison, a remote control, and NO GIMPED single ended (SE) outputs. Basically if you are like me and are someone whose amp lacks balanced inputs, the only Schiit DACs without gimped SE outputs are MIL, LIM, and BF2. It would be nice if a Gungnir 2 could finally join this party! Price it in parallel with the Chord Qutest around $1600-$1800.

What does @Jason Stoddard think? No new Gungnir development for how long?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Jason already stated that Gungnir will receive an update. We just live in the worst timeline for it.


----------



## GoKart

I'd like a remote for my Gung but other than that, and Unison, I love my Gumby too much to hope for a revision.


----------



## MacMan31

GoKart said:


> From my experience, yes. But my experience came about because I accidentally won both in auctions for similar prices. When I heard the sound difference between the two, the little extra the Gumby cost definitely made sense for me to keep it. I'd say it's still a worthy upgrade over the BF2 in terms of performance, but it's the factor of diminishing returns that you have to be comfortable with; comparing the cost of each unit new, roughly double the price, is it double the performance? What is performance? This is a subjective question for each listener dependant on preferences, hearing ability, and other kit in the chain. When I was comparing the two, the difference I heard would warrant me spending significantly more than I paid for the upgrade. However, I've got a fairly well-paying job so it's not as tough a decision for me to make than it may be for others faced with the same choice.



Well the BF2 is certainly the most expensive DAC I have ever had. Next to that was a Topping D70. I do understand the point of diminishing returns. $1,100 for a DAC is something I thought I would never even consider paying. But this DAC doesn't come up to often on the used market. I was also considering a Denafrips Ares II. Those seem to come and go pretty quickly on the used market. 



tmac17 said:


> I'd say so. But the question I'd ask myself is if gen 5 is worth it or if u should wait for a unison to show up on the used market.



Well I have no experience with any version of the Gungnir so I don't know which generation would be the overall best one.


----------



## artur9

MacMan31 said:


> Well I have no experience with any version of the Gungnir so I don't know which generation would be the overall best one.


Supposedly, the older ones (like mine) have a mellower sound signature and the newer ones are more analytical, if that helps.


----------



## Brubacca

I'd call the older one more analog sounding although I haven't heard the newer one.


----------



## artur9

Brubacca said:


> I'd call the older one more analog sounding although I haven't heard the newer one.


I am afraid to upgrade my GMB as the new ones are described as more incisive than I prefer.
OTOH, my Linn's DAC sounds like my GMB to me.  It's AKM-based, IIRC, like the older, pre-fire, Schiit DACs.


----------



## MacMan31

Brubacca said:


> I'd call the older one more analog sounding although I haven't heard the newer one.



Well the one I am considering is the multi-bit version. I would much prefer a more "analog" sound. 



artur9 said:


> Supposedly, the older ones (like mine) have a mellower sound signature and the newer ones are more analytical, if that helps.



I think I would prefer a more mellow or analog sound. The one I'm considering is the multi-bit version.


----------



## Brubacca

MacMan31 said:


> Well the one I am considering is the multi-bit version. I would much prefer a more "analog" sound.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I would prefer a more mellow or analog sound. The one I'm considering is the multi-bit version.


Yes. I have the original MultiBit version. It had gen 2 USB so thats how old it was. Then I upgraded to Unison USB at the factory. 

I found this too mellow for Grunge and heavier Rock music with multiple speakers. Have now had 2 sets of monitor Audio speakers and their slightly forward nature works well with A1 Gumby. Using Naim Nait 5si that is. 

It's really amazing with Jazz, Classic Rock, acoustic music. Van Morrison is amazing with this DAC.


----------



## MacMan31

Brubacca said:


> Yes. I have the original MultiBit version. It had gen 2 USB so thats how old it was. Then I upgraded to Unison USB at the factory.
> 
> I found this too mellow for Grunge and heavier Rock music with multiple speakers. Have now had 2 sets of monitor Audio speakers and their slightly forward nature works well with A1 Gumby. Using Naim Nait 5si that is.
> 
> It's really amazing with Jazz, Classic Rock, acoustic music. Van Morrison is amazing with this DAC.



Well this is the one I'm looking at. It's Gen 5. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649855634-schiit-gungnir-multibit-dac/ 

I have Monitor Audio Silver 100 speakers. If I get this DAC I'd be pairing it most likely with a Schiit Freya S (or Plus but tubes are getting pricy these days) as well as a Marantz MM7025 power amp. The MM7025 has XLR balance inputs and the Freya has balanced outputs. Also I have a Marantz CD6006 CD player and Node 2i streamer and this setup would be integrated with my 4K TV and BD player.


----------



## artur9

Brubacca said:


> Yes. I have the original MultiBit version. It had gen 2 USB so thats how old it was. Then I upgraded to Unison USB at the factory..
> 
> It's really amazing with Jazz, Classic Rock, acoustic music. Van Morrison is amazing with this DAC.


Mine was direct from Schiit in 2017 so also gen 2.

Those genres are what I mostly listen to so the GMB is a perfect match!


----------



## MacMan31

artur9 said:


> Mine was direct from Schiit in 2017 so also gen 2.
> 
> Those genres are what I mostly listen to so the GMB is a perfect match!



I listen to much of those genres as well. Would be better to find an older gen Gungnir?


----------



## artur9

MacMan31 said:


> I listen to much of those genres as well. Would be better to find an older gen Gungnir?


It boils down to your needs, your wallet, and what you can audition.  In my case, since I already own the GMB that has the sound I like, I don't have a need to try anything new.

IMO, time marches on and available tech has progressed.  For that reason, I think a newer device makes more sense.


----------



## Brubacca

MacMan31 said:


> I listen to much of those genres as well. Would be better to find an older gen Gungnir?


I really think its system dependant. If I had the newer A2 Gumby my Sonus Faber speakers probably would have been a good match. 

I've never heard A2 so I am going by reviews.


----------



## Brubacca

MacMan31 said:


> Well this is the one I'm looking at. It's Gen 5. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649855634-schiit-gungnir-multibit-dac/
> 
> I have Monitor Audio Silver 100 speakers. If I get this DAC I'd be pairing it most likely with a Schiit Freya S (or Plus but tubes are getting pricy these days) as well as a Marantz MM7025 power amp. The MM7025 has XLR balance inputs and the Freya has balanced outputs. Also I have a Marantz CD6006 CD player and Node 2i streamer and this setup would be integrated with my 4K TV and BD player.


I had a nice old pair of RS8. Moved to a much smaller room.  Went to dealer looking at Silver 50. Came home with a pair of the Studio Monitors (dual 4" w/ ribbon tweet) with stands for not much more.


----------



## MacMan31

Brubacca said:


> I had a nice old pair of RS8. Moved to a much smaller room.  Went to dealer looking at Silver 50. Came home with a pair of the Studio Monitors (dual 4" w/ ribbon tweet) with stands for not much more.



Well right now I'm just using a Marantz HD-AMP1 with my MA Silver 100 and it's overall great for movies. Excellent clarity and low end on these speakers. No need for a subwoofer in my room. Very good for music also but it would be nice to have separates.


----------



## judomaniak57

Have been thinking of getting this dac to pair with my Blusound node 2i. would be using coax in only. on the website they make a big deal about the usb in. i will not be using usb ever, is this dac good thru the coax?


----------



## artur9

judomaniak57 said:


> Have been thinking of getting this dac to pair with my Blusound node 2i. would be using coax in only. on the website they make a big deal about the usb in. i will not be using usb ever, is this dac good thru the coax?


Yes.  Used to be that coax was better than USB.  They achieved parity with Unison USB.


----------



## Orange5o

Any recommendations on the bnc cables? Getting a pi2aes lite and want to use the aes coax out...


----------



## carbonF1

Orange5o said:


> Any recommendations on the bnc cables? Getting a pi2aes lite and want to use the aes coax out...



I like my Nordost Silver Shadow a lot. But it'd be hard to go wrong with something from Blue Jeans Cable and I believe they are true 75ohm cables, Belden wire.


----------



## davidflas

Brubacca said:


> Yes. I have the original MultiBit version. It had gen 2 USB so thats how old it was. Then I upgraded to Unison USB at the factory.


When I bought my Gungnir from Audioadvisor, Multibit wasn't even available, and it had USB Gen. 1. At that time USB was optional. Since then it has been upgraded to Multibit. I anticipate its return to me tomorrow with Unison USB on board (upgrading from Gen. 2). All in all, it has given me nearly a decade of amazing sound, couldn't be happier!


----------



## davidflas

After having lived with a Modius for a while, having my Gungnir back is a revelation! With Unison installed I'm ready for at least another decade of musical enjoyment!


----------



## amigastar

Hello,
i have a question, I'm currently rocking a Chord Mojo 2 but want to upgrade to Schiit Gungnir Delta-Sigma in the near future.
Is the Delta Sigma worth it or do i really need the Multibit version? Like i said for now i want to settle on the Delta-Sigma one and get the Multibit upgrade later on.


----------



## carbonF1 (Jun 22, 2022)

Oh wow, just looked on the Schiit website and saw Gungnir got a price drop 🤯



amigastar said:


> Hello,
> i have a question, I'm currently rocking a Chord Mojo 2 but want to upgrade to Schiit Gungnir Delta-Sigma in the near future.
> Is the Delta Sigma worth it or do i really need the Multibit version? Like i said for now i want to settle on the Delta-Sigma one and get the Multibit upgrade later on.



I'm guessing you'll get the D/S secondhand. Unless you're getting one for cheap, like under $300-350...I'd probably just get MB now, particularly if you want an updated USB implementation (it's quite good) and especially now that it's 100 off at $1199. The MB upgrade itself is $500 and the dac needs to be shipped to Schiit for a firmware update. I'm not sure if shipping is included in the cost of the MB upgrade. The upgrade route *would* give you 24 months of warranty once done which is a plus for going for the D/S first.


----------



## davidflas

amigastar said:


> Hello,
> i have a question, I'm currently rocking a Chord Mojo 2 but want to upgrade to Schiit Gungnir Delta-Sigma in the near future.
> Is the Delta Sigma worth it or do i really need the Multibit version? Like i said for now i want to settle on the Delta-Sigma one and get the Multibit upgrade later on.


My Gungnir lived the first two years of its life as a Delta Sigma model, and I felt it was a great sounding DAC. That being said upgrading to multibit was a big step up in sound quality.


----------



## macdonjh (Jun 24, 2022)

carbonF1 said:


> Oh wow, just looked on the Schiit website and saw Gungnir got a price drop 🤯
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing you'll get the D/S secondhand. Unless you're getting one for cheap, like under $300-350...I'd probably just get MB now, particularly if you want an updated USB implementation (it's quite good) and especially now that it's 100 off at $1199. The MB upgrade itself is $500 and the dac needs to be shipped to Schiit for a firmware update. I'm not sure if shipping is included in the cost of the MB upgrade. The upgrade route *would* give you 24 months of warranty once done which is a plus for going for the D/S first.


Yes, the delta-sigma is not offered any longer, so the used market is the only option.  And, in the Schiit thread hosted by @Jason Stoddard, it was "announced" Gungnir will be on hiatus waiting for parts to become available so act quickly.

[edit] Oh, there has been extensive discussion about the merits of delta-sigma and multi-bit in this thread.  You'll get lots of information reading back through posts here.


----------



## amigastar (Jun 26, 2022)

A question,
when i buy an used Gungnir Multibit how can i tell it's Multibit? Is there some indication of that? Maybe a sticker or something?


----------



## Orange5o

Question for gungnir owners... is the BNC connection in the back female? Some pics appear so when I search Google, but on the Schiit site it looks male? Can't tell if it's optical illusion. Thanks


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

I don't believe BNC connectors come in genders.  Regardless, the one of the Gungnir is the correct one.

JC


----------



## davidflas (Jun 27, 2022)

amigastar said:


> A question,
> when i buy an used Gungnir Multibit how can i tell it's Multibit? Is there some indication of that? Maybe a sticker or something?


If you buy a Gungnir that was upgraded to Multibit there will be a sticker. Not sure if DACs that were always Multibit have any external indication. The BNC connector on the back is male.


----------



## amigastar

davidflas said:


> If you buy a Gungnir that was upgraded to Multibit there will be a sticker. Not sure if DACs that were always Multibit have any external indication. The BNC connector on the back is male.


Ah, ok good to know, maybe i should ask Schiit but I'm hesitant because i would ask them about a second hand DAC and not buying a new one from them.


----------



## artur9

I have a NUC and an OG Gungnir with Gen2 USB.  I'm assuming I can just connect the NUC's USB to the GMB's USB and get pleasing results with the proper software on the NUC.

What's the best linux O/S to put on there to play tunes?

My main system uses Linn kazoo and minimserver running on debian.


----------



## Brubacca

artur9 said:


> I have a NUC and an OG Gungnir with Gen2 USB.  I'm assuming I can just connect the NUC's USB to the GMB's USB and get pleasing results with the proper software on the NUC.
> 
> What's the best linux O/S to put on there to play tunes?
> 
> My main system uses Linn kazoo and minimserver running on debian.


Are you talking headless software or operating system?  

I've tried ubuntu using Clementine. 

In the past used Vortexbox, Daphile and volumio as headlesss options. Loading Volumio on x86 was a pain as I remember. 

Moved to Roon and use ROCK on NUC as my server.


----------



## artur9

Brubacca said:


> Are you talking headless software or operating system?


headless with an iOS control point would be perfect.  Not a fan of Roon as its support for classical is as bad as everyone else's...


----------



## Brubacca

artur9 said:


> headless with an iOS control point would be perfect.  Not a fan of Roon as its support for classical is as bad as everyone else's...


I liked daphile for awhile. I ended up having issues with the way it categorized artists. Really Volumio if you can still load it on a x86 processor would probably be your best bet. Sorry, it's been a few years since I went roon. Not a big classical listener so no experience there. Daphile could be controlled from a web page. There is also the full blown audiophile Linux although I used it in it's infancy. 

Volumio definitely works on raspberry pi 4 , but again not sure what their availability is. Other than than look for a used blue sound node for cheap.  Friend of mine likes the app although he just went roon as well. He is a jazz listener.


----------



## artur9

I forgot to mention, I almost never stream from the Internet.  I generally just play my own local files.  I only really stream if I can't get to my own files.



Brubacca said:


> I liked daphile for awhile. I ended up having issues with the way it categorized artists. Really Volumio if you can still load it on a x86 processor would probably be your best bet. Sorry, it's been a few years since I went roon. ... Daphile could be controlled from a web page. There is also the full blown audiophile Linux although I used it in it's infancy.
> 
> Volumio definitely works on raspberry pi 4 , but again not sure what their availability is.


What is the full blown audiophile linux?

So, here's a crazy thing.  I was looking at the page for Euphony and it's being upgraded.  One of the new features is


> single album playback mode instead of adding tracks/albums to playlist. User can switch back to playlist mode.


My Muzo players did that and it drove me crazy.  Neither Daphile or Volumio have this misfeature?

Seems like volumio "wins" because it has an iOS app for control.


----------



## CT007 (Jul 1, 2022)

carbonF1 said:


> Gungnir got a price drop


Because it no longer has VXCO+VCO parts, only VCO. -$100. New SN starting with "L". Mine just came in, after 15 weeks...

I am hoping we can upgrade it for free later, if the VXCO parts come back in stock.










I noticed a nice change with FD7; much more analog & organic sounding now. More bass, and bass information. AD900X(SE) also sounded nicer, this time with more distinct bass, and less brightness. Lots of sparkle, air, and that huge sound. M50X(SE), M40X(SE), and FHE sounded the same. Erupt sounded the same, with more sub-bass. Timeless sounded nice still, with less brightness this time. Hook-X maybe sounded worse, strangely; treble seemed a bit splashy now. I think Edition XS would sound much better on Gungnir, whereas it sounded too neutral, with too much treble energy, and not enough bass & warmth on my SMSL Sanskrit. I think BF2 had an opposite sound - leaner, brighter, more detail focused VS Gungnir. More metallic, poorer tone; less natural/organic for sure.


----------



## Orange5o

Just got a new gungnir, replacing a bifrost 2, having a strange issue. Nothing in the chain changed, but when I turn on and play the first song from my raspberry pi (via wireworld ultraviolet usb), all is good. As soon as I play another song that triggers the sample rate change click, anything I play after (outside of some 24 bit flacs I've noticed) that is mp3 or 16 bit flac has terrible distortion. If I reboot the pi, same thing. The song that distorted before works fine, until I change and get the next rate change click. What on earth is going on?


----------



## protoss (Jul 4, 2022)

CT007 said:


> New SN starting with "L".


Damn... is this the 4th revision?

I have the S/N : "B"
I thought I got the latest one "aka" A2 version?





@Orange5o
What if you play all your files only in flac? and also only in mp3 without triggering a bitrate change? It could be your raspberry?

I just did a test. I did a Flac to Mp3 in default and everything is working fine for me?


----------



## CT007 (Jul 4, 2022)

Orange5o said:


> the sample rate change click,


*This click happens on the pi?* I hear a click when I first start my Gungnir, after it does the 10 second warmup thing. Then there are no clicks, when playing songs of various sample rates, such as these here, through WinAmp.

*Is the Gungnir's jitter light turning on, when you experience the distortion?* Mine does not come on, except at warmup, so far.

My PC is sending USB signal to my Douk U2 Pro (which sends out coax signal to Gungnir), with sound device settings at 24-bit, 192KHz, allow exclusive control, give exclusive mode priority. WinAmp is not in exclusive mode.

With this setup, I've seen no jitter light yet, no clicking outside of warmup, and no noticeable audio distortion with content of various sample rates.


----------



## CT007 (Jul 4, 2022)

protoss said:


> I thought I got the latest one "aka" A2 version?


At the time you got it, yes, that was the newest version, pretty sure. The L SN's just starting being released, like since July 1st 2022. And you have VCO+VXCO; I only have VCO(but paid $100 less than you ;p). When the VXCO parts come back in stock, they will go back and make the version you have again. Unless they never become available, and/or have created a new DAC by then.


----------



## Orange5o

CT007 said:


> *This click happens on the pi?* I hear a click when I first start my Gungnir, after it does the 10 second warmup thing. Then there are no clicks, when playing songs of various sample rates, such as these here, through WinAmp.
> 
> *Is the Gungnir's jitter light turning on, when you experience the distortion?* Mine does not come on, except at warmup, so far.
> 
> ...


I get clicks when i go from say 24 bit flac to a 16 bit flac, which it should and my bifrost did also. No bbg light on, and it's the exact setup I've ran on bifrost 2 for the last year with no problems.


----------



## CT007 (Jul 4, 2022)

Orange5o said:


> I get clicks when i go from say 24 bit flac to a 16 bit flac, which it should and my bifrost did also. No bbg light on, and it's the exact setup I've ran on bifrost 2 for the last year with no problems.


So you are using a direct USB connection. Can you try using opticle or coax, or a DDC to convert between them?

Do you have a MultiBit Unison 5 Bifrost 2? Or an older version?

What I've learned: USB + Windows + Schiit = sucks. (not so much just USB+Windows, though) That's why I bypass it with coax.


----------



## protoss

CT007 said:


> July 1st 2022.


Ha, thats funny. Congrats. I hope your version is like mine. Big bass, soundstage and liquid smooth sound.



Orange5o said:


> I get clicks when i go from say 24 bit flac to a 16 bit flac, which it should


 I am playing mp3, flac, wav,. mp4 and YouTube constantly.
As I am typing this I hear no distortion? 
Sadly, it might be your dac if it is not your rasberry.


----------



## CT007

protoss said:


> I hope your version is like mine. Big bass, soundstage and liquid smooth sound.


I think we are hearing the same thing. : ) Impressions on previous page, same post you quoted me from, obv lol.


----------



## CT007

Orange5o said:


> I get clicks when i go from say 24 bit flac to a 16 bit flac, which it should and my bifrost did also. No bbg light on, and it's the exact setup I've ran on bifrost 2 for the last year with no problems.


Do you also have the new VCO Gungnir? Or was this a used model you got?


----------



## Orange5o

CT007 said:


> Do you also have the new VCO Gungnir? Or was this a used model you got?


It's the new vco version. I've tried multiple streamers now, same issue.


----------



## macdonjh

For those curious about the sticker you get when you have a Gungnir bitted up:


----------



## Orange5o

Ok, here's where I'm at on my new (VCO version) Gungnir issue:

recap of the issue: Using raspberry pi 3 or 4 via USB from both Volumio and Runeaudio and using multiple local storage drives, once the Gungnir does the mute relay click to play 96 khz files (usually 24 bit FLAC), anything I switch to with a different sample rate (typically 44.1 khz) does not get a sample change click from Gungnir and sounds incredibly bad. I can still go back to 96 khz files and it sounds fine, but nothing I do causes a new sample rate change/mute relay click. If i reboot everything, I can play 44.1 khz sound again, but once I do any sample rate change (with the mute relay click), it again won't go back to 44.1 khz (both mp3 or FLAC) without sounding like crap. I've used this same setup with a Bifrost 2 for over a year with no issue. USB cable is Wireworld Ultraviolet that has performed perfectly for a year. Schiit support's only response was to try a laptop. I can't replicate the issue, likely because the laptop is resampling everything to 44.1 or something and frankly I don't care to figure out how to force the issue, given my layout I need to use a Pi streamer anyways. Nor do I want to go through a 1.5 terabyte library looking for 96 khz files to reformat.

In my opinion the Gungnir is failing to change sample rates, but I'm kind of a dummy. I'm afraid to send it back for a swap and have it do the same issue because 1) Gungnir is older tech than the Bifrost 2 perhaps? 2) It could be an issue with the new VCO version? Who knows...

Only solution I've found is resampling within Volumio, but then my fear is whether the sound is being degraded at all? What do I set it at, max, or 176.4 or 192 or what? 

Hoping anyone would have some insight into this, as far as 1) would you send the unit back?, 2) would you just resample through volumio, if there is a technological reason that I wouldn't be missing anything?


----------



## CT007

Orange5o said:


> 1) would you send the unit back?


If you can, absolutely. Have them do a diagnostic+repair, then try it out at home again. If it's still causing an issue, just sell/refund it and move on, I guess. Might not solve anything, but you'll have your money to try another DAC.


----------



## Brubacca

Orange5o said:


> Ok, here's where I'm at on my new (VCO version) Gungnir issue:
> 
> recap of the issue: Using raspberry pi 3 or 4 via USB from both Volumio and Runeaudio and using multiple local storage drives, once the Gungnir does the mute relay click to play 96 khz files (usually 24 bit FLAC), anything I switch to with a different sample rate (typically 44.1 khz) does not get a sample change click from Gungnir and sounds incredibly bad. I can still go back to 96 khz files and it sounds fine, but nothing I do causes a new sample rate change/mute relay click. If i reboot everything, I can play 44.1 khz sound again, but once I do any sample rate change (with the mute relay click), it again won't go back to 44.1 khz (both mp3 or FLAC) without sounding like crap. I've used this same setup with a Bifrost 2 for over a year with no issue. USB cable is Wireworld Ultraviolet that has performed perfectly for a year. Schiit support's only response was to try a laptop. I can't replicate the issue, likely because the laptop is resampling everything to 44.1 or something and frankly I don't care to figure out how to force the issue, given my layout I need to use a Pi streamer anyways. Nor do I want to go through a 1.5 terabyte library looking for 96 khz files to reformat.
> 
> ...



Raspberry Pi is a proven technology. Volumio is also proven at this point. They sell it commercially and other manufacturers incorporate it into their products. 

Either Volumio isn't behaving or the Gungnir DAC isn't behaving. Do you have another SD Card?  Have you investigated whether or not this is a bug in Volumio?  Maybe try an older version of Volumio if that is possible. 

Sorry I'm not home for another week or I would flash up my Pi4 and test it out for you on my Gungnir. 

Is your Volumio the exact one you used with BiFrost 2?  If so then send the Gungnir Back. Tell them the system works fine with BF2 and Gungnir is having issues.


----------



## Orange5o

Brubacca said:


> Raspberry Pi is a proven technology. Volumio is also proven at this point. They sell it commercially and other manufacturers incorporate it into their products.
> 
> Either Volumio isn't behaving or the Gungnir DAC isn't behaving. Do you have another SD Card?  Have you investigated whether or not this is a bug in Volumio?  Maybe try an older version of Volumio if that is possible.
> 
> ...


It's going back, they've offered to exchange it. Whole setup worked with bifrost, and I've tried two different pis, two different os's and a laptop. It's definitely the Gungnir. I will update when I get the new one. Thanks all


----------



## CT007

Perhaps they messed something up, during the VXCO removal & re-design... Or random manufacturing/assembly/configuration mistake. See if you can get them to tell you what the issue is, exactly.


----------



## Orange5o

I'm not so sure. Another forum member reached out and had the same problem late 2021 with a VXCO version...


----------



## Rattle

I'm using a pi 4 with pi2aes. Using a gungnir A2 with vxco running lossless files 16bit/24bit from 44.1 to 192. With either volumio or moode which I've settled on using BNC cable I've never had an issue. I swap back and forth between red book and hi res with relay clicks obviously but no other issues. If it matters I'm using a 4tb USB storage drive to just play files. No issues


----------



## artur9

Orange5o said:


> I'm not so sure. Another forum member reached out and had the same problem late 2021 with a VXCO version...


In this day and age of six sigma manufacturing, people do tend to forget that some lemons still slip through all the processes.

I think you've verified that and just need to get a non-lemon Gungnir.  If the next one also has issues then it's likely not the Gungnir that's at fault.


----------



## Orange5o (Jul 10, 2022)

Rattle said:


> I'm using a pi 4 with pi2aes. Using a gungnir A2 with vxco running lossless files 16bit/24bit from 44.1 to 192. With either volumio or moode which I've settled on using BNC cable I've never had an issue. I swap back and forth between red book and hi res with relay clicks obviously but no other issues. If it matters I'm using a 4tb USB storage drive to just play files. No issues


I have a pi2aes lite coming in a few weeks that I will be using with bnc so I'm definitely hoping to replicate your succes!

Also just files with me from a 2tb external.


----------



## stelladiver

CT007 said:


> Because it no longer has VXCO+VCO parts, only VCO. -$100. New SN starting with "L". Mine just came in, after 15 weeks...
> 
> I am hoping we can upgrade it for free later, if the VXCO parts come back in stock.
> 
> ...



Quick question, what is the name of the stand you are using between the soloist and the Gungnir?


----------



## CT007

stelladiver said:


> Quick, what in name of the stand are you between God and Gungnir?


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VN9T173


----------



## M-83

Has anybody stacked Gumby and Ragnarok 2?


----------



## LoveKnight (Aug 9, 2022)

So sad my Schiit Gungnir Multibit USB gen 5 has a problem with USB connection. It takes a while or very long time about few hours to be recognized by my Mac Mini M1. I just moved to a Mac from a PC desktop windows. Searching the internet and someone had a same problem as mine and his usb port of Schiit Gungnir was dead after 4-5 years of 24/24 everyday and Schiit used low quality USB boards. Maybe my Schiit will be the same soon. I want to upgrade to the USB Unison but can not ship back to America because I am in Australia and Schiit does not have a do it yourself usb upgrade for Gungnir nice schiit. Stupid Schiit I will never buy any products from this company again. Big talk but not goody durable equipments inside. After the hype of Head-fi community I learn many things like Dan Clark Alpha Dog headphone (got driver broken after a year and the leather earpads were tear away after half of a year), Monolith THX amp (get volume distortion after couple of years) and now the Schiit DAC. I will buy more Japan audio gears from now for more durable audio gears and better quality control. Oh yeah one more thing I bought a Schiit Valhalla 2 years ago and it gets distortion too after a couple of years.


----------



## twigfarm

Hey folks!

I was wondering if anyone could explain the different iterations of the Gungnir Multibit (A1, A2) and "Generations" for me and if there is a way to tell them apart. 

Reason I ask is I currently own a Bifrost 2 that I bought new in January 2021. I'm thinking about purchasing the update/upgrade card ($300) but that would make my Bifrost an $1100 DAC (all in).  For that kind of money I'm thinking I should forego the update and think about the Gungnir. If it works out then sell my Bifrost & cut my loses rather than spending more money on what is essentially an $800 DAC (Bifrost 2/64 new price).

I feel the Bifrost is a fine DAC, probably one of the best out there for the money but I had the opportunity recently to live with the Denafrips Ares II for a couple of months.  If the Gungnir combined the strengths of the Bifrost with those of the Ares (ease of presentation, relaxed soundstage) I'd be all-in.  

And I'm not adverse to picking up a Gungnir used, hence my question about versions.

Thank you in advance for any info anyone might be able to share.


----------



## davidflas (Aug 20, 2022)

Here's what I think I've gathered from reading various threads over the years:

A1 refers to the first version of the analog board inside the Gungnir, it is considered to be more laid back and organic than A2 or analog 2 models which are considered to be more accurate and resolving, but perhaps a bit brighter as well.  Generations refers to which version of the USB card the DAC has. There have been gen. 1, gen. 2, gen. 5, and Unison cards. Unison is the most current version.

My personal Gungnir is A1, which is not upgradable. I love its sound. I prefer it to A2 Gungnir models such as the one my father owns. My DAC came before Multibit was even available. Currently my Gungnir has been upgraded to current specifications, other than being A1. I feel that each upgrade has provided very worthwhile sound quality improvements.

If I've made errors in my post, I'm sure someone will come along and correct out my mistakes.


----------



## tafens

davidflas said:


> Here's what I think I've gathered from reading various threads over the years:
> 
> A1 refers to the first version of the analog board inside the Gungnir, it is considered to be more laid back and organic than A2 or analog 2 models which are considered to be more accurate and resolving, but perhaps a big brighter as well.  Generations refers to which version of the USB card the DAC has. There have been gen. 1, gen. 2, gen. 5, and Unison cards. Unison is the most current version.
> 
> ...


This just about sums up what I’ve read too. I can add that the current Gungnir being sold now is easily identifiable by having a serial number starting with an L. It sells for $100 less than before due to lacking VXCO reclocking because of parts shortages. It retains VCO reclocking though. Identifying the earlier models seems harder, as, of what I’ve read, the serial numbering doesn’t have any clear pattern to distinguish A1 from A2 for example.


----------



## stelladiver

A1 usually has a serial number starting with an “A” or a “C”, while A2 starts with a “B”


----------



## macdonjh

twigfarm said:


> Hey folks!
> 
> I was wondering if anyone could explain the different iterations of the Gungnir Multibit (A1, A2) and "Generations" for me and if there is a way to tell them apart.
> 
> ...


twigfarm, if you haven't been following @Jason Stoddard's thread, perhaps check in.  Since the Texas Audio Roundup when the Bifrost 2/64 was introduced there's been a lot of chatter about it.  You might get some good information there.  

My gear is pretty old: I decided to upgrade from a Bifrost I multi-bit to a Gungnir delta-sigma, then upgraded the Gungnir delta-sigma to multi-bit+Unison, then bought a Gungnir delta-sigma and sold my Bifrost I multi-bit.  So, I decided the Gungnir was ultimately a worthwhile upgrade to the Bifrost I multi-bit, but as I've written in this forum, the difference in sound to me was not night and day.  Note that I use these DACs with head phone systems exclusively.  Many of the Head-Fiers I read who have Gungnirs and Yggdrasils are using them in speaker systems and really enjoy the sound stage improvements they say the bigger Schiit DACs provide.

All that leading up to: a couple of participants in Jason Stoddard's thread have said the Bifrost 2/64 competes well with Gungnir, which of course, only muddies the water.  It makes a certain amount of sense, though: Jason S. has said one of the reasons for the demise of Mjolnir is the size of the case.  Many customers decided it was too big for desk-top use.  So perhaps he and @Baldr are working their way toward Gungnir-level performance in a Bifrost case.


----------



## CT007

They need to either make _only_ 1 version of each model, _or_ clearly identify/mark and explain version differences. Silent revisions suck, and unclear revisions/versions suck.


----------



## twigfarm (Aug 20, 2022)

Thanks folks for the responses! Too bad you can't tell from the SN letter prefixes which board is in the unit but I guess that would make it _too _easy.


davidflas said:


> Here's what I think I've gathered from reading various threads over the years:
> 
> A1 refers to the first version of the analog board inside the Gungnir, it is considered to be more laid back and organic than A2 or analog 2 models which are considered to be more accurate and resolving, but perhaps a bit brighter as well.  Generations refers to which version of the USB card the DAC has. There have been gen. 1, gen. 2, gen. 5, and Unison cards. Unison is the most current version.
> 
> ...


Could you clarify: you say your A1 is not upgrade-able but then that it's been upgraded to current spec.  Not sure what you mean.

Also, does A1 refer to the DS version or is that a completely different animal?  I'm really only interested in the multi-bit versions.  How many multi-bit versions have there been so far?  Is what is currently being offered on their site A2 versions or is there now an A3?

And I'm not that interested in the USB versions as I would be using it mainly with either coax or toslink connections.


macdonjh said:


> twigfarm, if you haven't been following @Jason Stoddard's thread, perhaps check in.  Since the Texas Audio Roundup when the Bifrost 2/64 was introduced there's been a lot of chatter about it.  You might get some good information there.


Not sure I know exactly how to "follow" anyone let alone Jason.


----------



## RCBinTN

Here you go ...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...lds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/page-6545


----------



## twigfarm

stelladiver said:


> A1 usually has a serial number starting with an “A” or a “C”, while A2 starts with a “B”


The photo of the back of the Gungnir on Schiit's site has a C prefix which would have led me to believe that "C" was a more current model.  Plus it has additional printed info where the serial number is as opposed to other models I've seen:

eg:









I can tell this is going to get more confusing than it may be worth.

Thanks again!


----------



## twigfarm

RCBinTN said:


> Here you go ...
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...lds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/page-6545


Yes, I've been watching (and sporadically participating in) that thread.  It goes on...   and on....  and.......


----------



## RCBinTN

I've been a Gungnir owner for many years/versions. Will try to explain the history. My listening is all with headphones, mostly with the Sennheiser HD800.
1. Gungnir D/S - sounded OK.
2. Gungnir MB - A1 - like turning "on" the great sound switch, for me. Never returning to D/S.
3. Gungnir MB - A2 (beta tester) - slightly brighter and more resolving but very close to the A1. The A2 was never publicly announced as an "upgrade" by Schiit. I think it was a supply assurance change and intended to sound similar to A1. The "B" prefix on the serial number is correct.
4. At the same time, my Gungnir was upgraded to Gen5 USB. So, did both A2 and Gen5 upgrades at the same time, although I did the beta test listening with an optical connection from my Mac. When the beta test was over, I started using USB because the Gen5 connection sounded better than the optical.
5. New: Gungnir MB VCO with Unison. I bought this a few weeks ago when Jason announced they couldn't get the AD5781BRUZ chips any longer, so Gungnir was about to vanish. At the same time, I noted that my old Gungnir was 2-weeks from being out-of-warranty. The new Gungnir / Unison sounds just fine - the Unison does make a slight improvement in music details, which are clearly evident with the HD800 cans.

I think if you're considering a used Gungnir, you can e-mail Schiit at info@schiit.com with the device's S/N and they can track it down for you. Happy hunting!


----------



## twigfarm

RCBinTN said:


> I've been a Gungnir owner for many years/versions. Will try to explain the history. My listening is all with headphones, mostly with the Sennheiser HD800.
> 1. Gungnir D/S - sounded OK.
> 2. Gungnir MB - A1 - like turning "on" the great sound switch, for me. Never returning to D/S.
> 3. Gungnir MB - A2 (beta tester) - slightly brighter and more resolving but very close to the A1. The A2 was never publicly announced as an "upgrade" by Schiit. I think it was a supply assurance change and intended to sound similar to A1. The "B" prefix on the serial number is correct.
> ...


Thank you!  Like I said in my previous post I'm not too concerned with the USB input as I would be using either coax or toslink connections only.

I'd love to jump on a new unit before they "vanish", maybe for good, but would not be adverse to buying a used sample that would fit my needs & save a little $.

Thanks again!!


----------



## RCBinTN

You bet - my pleasure. I love the sound of the Gumby and have heard the Yggdrasil (at past HP meets). They're not very much different.
Don't discount the Unison as a digital input - it's pretty sweet. I just keep my AQ diamond toslink cable as a back-up


----------



## twigfarm

RCBinTN said:


> I think if you're considering a used Gungnir, you can e-mail Schiit at info@schiit.com with the device's S/N and they can track it down for you. Happy hunting!


Is that something they would actually take the time to do? I've actually found them less than helpful with non-Gumby related questions in the past.

Found this in a 'wanted to buy'  ad on Canuck Audio Mart:

"If you’re Gumby has a flashing green start up light that then disappears after 20s, you likely have an A1. A2 (Analog 2) version has a flashing white start up light that disappears." (He's looking to buy an A1)

Does this sound right?


----------



## RCBinTN

All my Gungnirs had white lights. The far-right light on all models flashes 7-8 times on startup and then goes dark. That's the analog output program getting ready.
I've never e-mailed Schiit Audio with such a question, but Jason touts it all the time as the go-to for information. Worth a try.


----------



## davidflas (Aug 20, 2022)

twigfarm said:


> Thanks folks for the responses! Too bad you can't tell from the SN letter prefixes which board is in the unit but I guess that would make it _too _easy.
> 
> Could you clarify: you say your A1 is not upgrade-able but then that it's been upgraded to current spec.  Not sure what you mean.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry that I wasn't clear. I meant that one can't upgrade from A1 to A2. In the beginning all Gungnir DACs were DS as was mine. I have owned mine since 2013, subsequently I have upgraded from USB gen.1 to gen. 2, and recently to Unison. I have also had it upgraded to Multibit.  AFAIK there is no A3, the current model differs from other A2 units only in the absence of the VXCO filter, hence the $100 price reduction. Schiit is very detail oriented, when they upgraded my USB to Unison, they also changed the source button from shiny to matte finish to match currently shipping models. You can tell if a Gungnir is upgraded because the back panel will have stickers indicating that an upgrade has been performed.


----------



## davidflas

twigfarm said:


> Is that something they would actually take the time to do? I've actually found them less than helpful with non-Gumby related questions in the past.
> 
> Found this in a 'wanted to buy'  ad on Canuck Audio Mart:
> 
> ...


I just rebooted my A1 Gumby, and it has a white light in that position.


----------



## artur9

twigfarm said:


> Gumby has a flashing green start up light


All the lights on the front panel of my Gumby OG/A1 are white.
There may be an internal LED not visible from the front?


----------



## M-83 (Aug 21, 2022)

I’m currently awaiting delivery of my third Gumby 😂

I have had two previously, I am certain that at least one was an A2 (a 2018 model). The other one was from 2017 but can’t recall if A1 or A2.

I’m looking forward to getting a 2016 model A1.

I’m going to have to upgrade it from gen 2 or gen 3 usb to unison usb so I can use it with my iPhone.

So I think Gumby and Rag 2 will be my end game- I think Yggy OG is likely a stretch too far budget wise.

Are Gumby and Rag 2 suitable to stack?

Maybe at some point I’ll have to consider options for a Perspex stand that can go on my desk over Rag 2 that gives Rag enough ventilation and can withstand the weight of Gumby.


----------



## etroze86

Well cruising through Schiit's site and looks like you can't select a black finish Gumby. Hopefully there is a refresh coming as it's in my list for upgrades next year.


----------



## davidflas

etroze86 said:


> Well cruising through Schiit's site and looks like you can't select a black finish Gumby. Hopefully there is a refresh coming as it's in my list for upgrades next year.


I'm wondering if a TI based Gumby is on the horizon.


----------



## etroze86

davidflas said:


> I'm wondering if a TI based Gumby is on the horizon.


I hope not, the MB is what is drawing me to it and I don't really want to jump to a yaggi because I might as well get a Holo spring lol.


----------



## Brubacca

Please understand that I don't know anything. But that being said I was under the impression the Gungnir was going away because they can't get the necessary chips. Think I got that impression for comments Jason has made here or there. 

They have already designed it away from one internal chip.  Not saying Gungnir was never coming back, but I definitely had the impression that if you want a Gumby now is the time.


----------



## RCBinTN

RCBinTN said:


> New: Gungnir MB VCO with Unison. I bought this a few weeks ago when Jason announced they couldn't get the AD5781BRUZ chips any longer, so Gungnir was about to vanish.


So it was said ... and, the price is $100 lower because of only VCO.


----------



## etroze86

RCBinTN said:


> So it was said ... and, the price is $100 lower because of only VCO.


Accept when you pick the finish the price goes from $1199 to $1249.


----------



## RCBinTN

That's weird. I just went with the black. Matches my amplifier


----------



## etroze86

RCBinTN said:


> That's weird. I just went with the black. Matches my amplifier


My preference as well guess I'll settle with the new bifrost when the time comes or find a screaming deal on a yaggy.


----------



## RCBinTN

Our Brazilian maid in the background ... Fernanda.


----------



## twigfarm

davidflas said:


> I'm sorry that I wasn't clear. I meant that one can't upgrade from A1 to A2. In the beginning all Gungnir DACs were DS as was mine. I have owned mine since 2013, subsequently I have upgraded from USB gen.1 to gen. 2, and recently to Unison. I have also had it upgraded to Multibit.  AFAIK there is no A3, the current model differs from other A2 units only in the absence of the VXCO filter, hence the $100 price reduction. Schiit is very detail oriented, when they upgraded my USB to Unison, they also changed the source button from shiny to matte finish to match currently shipping models. You can tell if a Gungnir is upgraded because the back panel will have stickers indicating that an upgrade has been performed.


Thank you for the clarification! And thank you to everyone else who took the time to respond!

So, let me see if I have this straight (please bear with me):  Original DS version could be upgraded to a Multibit A1 (and also accept all USB upgrades).

A2 was an unannounced update/change to the analog board but for some reason an original DS could not accept it.  Their site claims their Gungnir upgrade Multibit board is for _any_ Gungnir.  So wouldn't that be a current A2 board or am I missing something?

Thanks again for helping me through this.  Hopefully it may prove helpful to others who may have the same questions.


----------



## RCBinTN

twigfarm said:


> A2 was an unannounced update/change to the analog board but for some reason an original DS could not accept it. Their site claims their Gungnir upgrade Multibit board is for _any_ Gungnir. So wouldn't that be a current A2 board or am I missing something?


I suspect all the analog boards are now A2. I think A1 is history.


----------



## tafens

Brubacca said:


> Please understand that I don't know anything. But that being said I was under the impression the Gungnir was going away because they can't get the necessary chips. Think I got that impression for comments Jason has made here or there.
> 
> They have already designed it away from one internal chip.  Not saying Gungnir was never coming back, but I definitely had the impression that if you want a Gumby now is the time.


I believe they said Gungnir is going on an indefinite hiatus when the current run is sold out. Although they didn’t say it wouldn’t return, I think it will probably not do so very soon, and if it does, that the chances of it returning in its current form (with AD chips) are slim. So yes, if you want one like it currently is, now would definitely be the time to get it..


----------



## davidflas

RCBinTN said:


> I suspect all the analog boards are now A2. I think A1 is history.





twigfarm said:


> Thank you for the clarification! And thank you to everyone else who took the time to respond!
> 
> So, let me see if I have this straight (please bear with me):  Original DS version could be upgraded to a Multibit A1 (and also accept all USB upgrades).
> 
> ...


I'm not exactly sure exactly when A2 came out, but I believe it was after my Gungnir was upgraded. My upgrade took place in 2015, I sold my Bifrost Uber to help finance the deal. I would agree that if one was to have the Multibit upgrade done now, it would include A2.


----------



## RCBinTN

Yep - it was 2017. Here are my pics of the A1 and A2 boards ...


----------



## M-83 (Aug 22, 2022)

Can anyone please give an insight into the SQ improvements Unison USB provides over Gen5?

I am to self install Gen5 usb card in a Gen2 or Gen3 Gumby A1 because Unison USB card availability is unforeseen here in the UK at this time.

At least I will get the ability to use my iPhone 12 with Gumby after installing Gen5, which is the main reason I want to update from earlier gen.

Also, is the Gen5 usb card install "easy" to do?


----------



## davidflas (Aug 22, 2022)

For me the hardest part of installing the USB card was getting the case back together so that the led lamps line up with their holes. Due to the case design the whole process takes a fair amount of doing. Then again, I'm a relative novice in regards to these things. As for SQ, I've never heard Gen5, but I can say the upgrade from Gen2 to Unison resulted in an across the board improvement in SQ. However, Unison boards have to be installed by someone who can also update the firmware on the Gungir's motherboard. In the US, that means sending the unit back to Schiit.


----------



## M-83

Realigning and reseating the LEDs and the case is the part I’m not looking forward to.

The rest sounds straightforward.

My previous A2 had gen5, and it sounded great.

Hope the A1 with gen5 will sound just as good if not better.

SQ wise it will be interesting to see how Gumby A1 differs from Musician Pegasus which I’ve enjoyed. I’m hoping I’ll not lose the decent quality and present bass that Pegasus has.

I’ll upgrade to Unison once stock levels return in the U.K.


----------



## M-83

davidflas said:


> For me the hardest part of installing the USB card was getting the case back together so that the led lamps line up with their holes. Due to the case design the whole process takes a fair amount of doing. Then again, I'm a relative novice in regards to these things. As for SQ, I've never heard Gen5, but I can say the upgrade from Gen2 to Unison resulted in an across the board improvement in SQ. However, Unison boards have to be installed by someone who can also update the firmware on the Gungir's motherboard. In the US, that means sending the unit back to Schiit.


Thanks for your thoughts on this.  I ill follow these instructions- https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ir-gen-5-usb-upgrade-instructions.4875/page-2


----------



## M-83

The gen5 board has arrived. Just waiting on Gumby now 😁


----------



## macdonjh

davidflas said:


> For me the hardest part of installing the USB card was getting the case back together so that the led lamps line up with their holes. Due to the case design the whole process takes a fair amount of doing. Then again, I'm a relative novice in regards to these things. As for SQ, I've never heard Gen5, but I can say the upgrade from Gen2 to Unison resulted in an across the board improvement in SQ. However, Unison boards have to be installed by someone who can also update the firmware on the Gungir's motherboard. In the US, that means sending the unit back to Schiit.


+1

Also, the screws are small, so keeping track of them and not dropping them requires some care.


----------



## M-83

macdonjh said:


> +1
> 
> Also, the screws are small, so keeping track of them and not dropping them requires some care.


I have a magnetic tray to safely collect anything like this. It’s helped me on many occasions where I would have been up the creek without it


----------



## XERO1 (Aug 23, 2022)

Jason Stoddard said:


> Just a quick update or two, as I get ready to head back to Corpus Christi:
> 
> *3. Don't be surprised to see an email or two from us.* As we've ramped up production, we can start reminding people that we exist, instead of hiding under the bridge like trolls, hoping nobody finds out how deep in backorder we are. Don't worry, it won't be like_ just-got-6-emails-the-same-day-after-I-bought-something-and-before-I-received-it _insanity. Maybe once a month. Maybe. Depends on parts. Backorders aren't vanquished. Nor are parts shortages. The inexpensive True Multibit products (Modi Multibit 2 and the True Multibit Unison card) are now held up officially to June/July. That's when we're supposed to get the DSPs now. Except now our purchasing partner is making hopeful noises about moving things up, so we'll see. *In the meantime, don't be surprised if Bifrost, Gungnir, and Yggdrasil move to TI DSPs.* If you want to argue about how the same algorithm run by two different DSPs sound, I suggest you come to a show and talk to Dave. I'll just shake my head and walk away.



Originally posted here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-6552#post-17110926


----------



## KrauserX91

RCBinTN said:


> 5. New: Gungnir MB VCO with Unison. *I bought this a few weeks ago when Jason announced they couldn't get the AD5781BRUZ chips any longer, so Gungnir was about to vanish*. At the same time, I noted that my old Gungnir was 2-weeks from being out-of-warranty. The new Gungnir / Unison sounds just fine - the Unison does make a slight improvement in music details, which are clearly evident with the HD800 cans.



Taking into account what you say, could the Gungnir receive a revamp with autonomy (like BF2) and new chips? I was thinking to buy what probably are the last units of Gungnir before vanishes or wait for a posible Gungnir 2 (or whatever new name they have in mind). 

Whatever I do...  buy the current version and the next months a Gungnir 2 with better sound releases... Wait current version to vanish and never see a Gungnir 2... or Gungnir 2 with a sound not of my like. All are risky options. Liking the sound of the OG BF2, is a good deal buy the Gungnir now?


----------



## RCBinTN

KrauserX91 said:


> Taking into account what you say, could the Gungnir receive a revamp with autonomy (like BF2) and new chips? I was thinking to buy what probably are the last units of Gungnir before vanishes or wait for a posible Gungnir 2 (or whatever new name they have in mind).
> 
> Whatever I do...  buy the current version and the next months a Gungnir 2 with better sound releases... Wait current version to vanish and never see a Gungnir 2... or Gungnir 2 with a sound not of my like. All are risky options. Liking the sound of the OG BF2, is a good deal buy the Gungnir now?


Well, I can confirm that my new Gungnir MB VCO sounds very good, better than my old one, due to the Unison USB. It's a great DAC for the money, IMO ... the BRUZ chips are really awesome. Jason did recently mention they may consider TI chips going forward but no specific detailed plans.


----------



## KrauserX91

I was checking the web and I have seen this on B-Stock at 1299$





While configuring a new one is cheaper, 1249$






Could anyone explain me why the difference?


----------



## theveterans

KrauserX91 said:


> I was checking the web and I have seen this on B-Stock at 1299$
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The B-Stock has the VXCO reclocker for all inputs while the new ones don’t have them


----------



## twigfarm (Aug 25, 2022)

Thanks again folks for your replies to my previous posts.  At this point I think if I'm going to buy a Gungnir, I'll buy one used as a new one would be $1,364.87 all-in and that's a little much for me right now.  And based on your replies it seems like any MB version of the Gungnir would be a nice upgrade from my Bifrost.


----------



## KrauserX91

I found this unboxing from 30 June 2022 without voice and I saw it includes a remote with volume control, does have the Gungnir this feature? At first I thought they could have mistake packing the Gungnir with the wrong controller.


----------



## schneller

The remote was bought separately. As you can see from the owner's manual, it is not an included item. So this is not yet a Gungnir 2 with upgraded features!


----------



## M-83

Interesting. Didn’t know you could remote control Gungnir. 

I have an included remote with Ragnarok 2 which looks similar though it doesn’t get used as I will only have one input/output.


----------



## M-83

In case anyone is interested, this is what Schiit customer service had to say about stacking Gumby and Ragnarok (2):

“You could stack Ragnarok on top of Gungnir but the Ragnarok is quite heavy. Ideally it would be Ragnarok on top of Yggdrasil.”


----------



## bagwell359 (Aug 30, 2022)

M-83 said:


> In case anyone is interested, this is what Schiit customer service had to say about stacking Gumby and Ragnarok (2):
> 
> “You could stack Ragnarok on top of Gungnir but the Ragnarok is quite heavy. Ideally it would be Ragnarok on top of Yggdrasil.”


Rag 1 puts out a lot of heat and it's heavy.  I wouldn't have my Gumby 1 on or below the Rag 1 ever.  The Rag 2 puts out little heat but it's still too big a footprint to put Gumby under it.  On top - if you must.  Still cable mgt easier if there is more space from another having it on a separate shelf.


----------



## M-83

bagwell359 said:


> Rag 1 puts out a lot of heat and it's heavy.  I wouldn't have my Gumby 1 on or below the Rag 1 ever.  The Rag 2 puts out little heat but it's still too big a footprint to put Gumby under it.  On top - if you must.  Still cable mgt easier if there is more space from another having it on a separate shelf.


Yeah I was surprised that they said Rag 2 could be placed on Gumby. 

I’ve ordered two of these to go side by side - https://amzn.eu/eLxn5rm

Gumby will go beneath with Rag 2 atop.


----------



## bagwell359

M-83 said:


> Yeah I was surprised that they said Rag 2 could be placed on Gumby.
> 
> I’ve ordered two of these to go side by side - https://amzn.eu/eLxn5rm
> 
> Gumby will go beneath with Rag 2 atop.


Nice looking.

Don't get the silver one - it rings more! 😊


----------



## M-83

bagwell359 said:


> Nice looking.
> 
> Don't get the silver one - it rings more! 😊


Looks nice but one of the legs doesn’t tighten properly. Problem with the screw head 🤦🏻‍♂️

Not risking placing Rag 2 on it. 

Will return to Amazon and rethink options. 

Shame but I’m not surprised lol.


----------



## M-83 (Sep 13, 2022)

I’ve just started using Gumby A1 with Ragnarok 2 and I’m delighted. My lcd-3 have never sounded so good. 

As my A1 has gen2 usb, and sounds great, I’m not sure I want to install a gen5 usb card in case it changes the sound profile in a way I would not prefer.

Can anyone share thoughts on sound provide of A1 + gen2 compared with A1 + gen5?

Will gen5 be leaner / less warm?


----------



## stelladiver

What are the main differences between the gungnir and the bifrost 2?


----------



## stelladiver

Does a 0-starting serial number indicate an A1 gungnir?


----------



## M-83

A mate and I opened up my Gumby A1 this evening with plans to remove the gen2 usb interface card and install a gen5 usb interface card that I’d sourced from Schiit U.K. 

As we offered up the gen5 card to the main board, the two rows of pins on the card were spaced a good cm or more wider than the on slots on the main board. 

Does anyone know if there’s different versions of gen5 card that are suited to different main board revisions?

Or have I missed something here for example do the boards piggy back and one sits atop the other (I appreciate how far out that might sound 😂)

The main board is v1.04, the original usb card is v1.4, and the gen5 card is v5.2.


----------



## M-83

M-83 said:


> Looks nice but one of the legs doesn’t tighten properly. Problem with the screw head 🤦🏻‍♂️
> 
> Not risking placing Rag 2 on it.
> 
> ...


 My rig setup.  I decided not to stack at all -  even on shelves etc.


----------



## M-83 (Sep 14, 2022)

M-83 said:


> A mate and I opened up my Gumby A1 this evening with plans to remove the gen2 usb interface card and install a gen5 usb interface card that I’d sourced from Schiit U.K.
> 
> As we offered up the gen5 card to the main board, the two rows of pins on the card were spaced a good cm or more wider than the on slots on the main board.
> 
> ...


Looks like the card I received could be for an Yggy.

Schiit U.K. are being great about it and have said they will get any  mix up sorted out ASAP 👍🏻

Edit:

Only problems are :

1) Only option is to update to Unison at higher cost than the gen5 card was to be

2) The higher cost isn’t ideal right now

3) Will I like Unison or will I regret the sound profile difference?


----------



## macdonjh

stelladiver said:


> What are the main differences between the gungnir and the bifrost 2?


There are several comparison posts in this thread.  I've posted about the Bifrost I multi-bit, others have posted about the Bifrost 2.  I'll bet comparisons to Bifrost 2/64 are coming.  Perhaps search this thread for "bifrost"?

The short version of my comparison to Bifrost I multi-bit is Gungnir provides "more" (of just about everything).


----------



## twigfarm

Hey Folks!  Looking at pre-owned Gungnirs I've noticed most of them have stickers on the back either referring to Multibit (with a number) or USB.  Can these stickers give some indication or insight into the age or history of a unit and maybe what analog board it has?

Thanks!


----------



## stelladiver (Sep 17, 2022)

Not the multibit sticker, but the serial number does indicate the analog board. Serials starting with a “0” and “A” (and possibly “C”) are A1, and “B” and now “L” are A2. The sticker by the USB input indicates which USB gen it has, eg gen 2, gen 5 or unison.


----------



## twigfarm

stelladiver said:


> Not the multibit sticker, but the serial number does indicate the analog board. “0” and “A” (and possibly “C”) are A1, and “B” and now “L” are A2. The sticker by the USB input indicates which USB gen it has, eg gen 2, gen 5 or unison.


Thanks for your reply but based on previous posts & responses I've received in the past it doesn't seem the serial numbers give a solid indication of the board, especially since some units may have received updates/upgraded boards some time in their history.

Does that sound right?

Thanks again!


----------



## davidflas (Sep 17, 2022)

All the stickers tell you for sure is that the Gungnir they are on was made before those things became standard. I bought my Gungnir in 2013 with Gen 1 USB and before Multibit was even an option, my serial number starts with a C.


----------



## twigfarm

davidflas said:


> All the stickers tell you for sure is that the Gungnir they are on was made before those things became standard. I bought my Gungnir in 2013 with Gen 1 USB and before Multibit was even an option, my serial number starts with a C.


Interesting. Too bad you can't tell by the serial number the age of a unit or board it has (I'm sure someone can, maybe).  That would make it too easy.

 Thank you!


----------



## artur9

twigfarm said:


> Interesting. Too bad you can't tell by the serial number the age of a unit or board it has (I'm sure someone can, maybe).  That would make it too easy.
> 
> Thank you!


You could try asking for a copy of the original receipt.


----------



## macdonjh

I think I read somewhere Schiit can tell you what you have based on the S/N if you ask...


----------



## artur9

I'm going to be looking for a worthy new home for my GMB (downsizing, y'know).
Thought I'd check here for any interest first.


----------



## automojo (Sep 21, 2022)

KrauserX91 said:


> Taking into account what you say, could the Gungnir receive a revamp with autonomy (like BF2) and new chips? I was thinking to buy what probably are the last units of Gungnir before vanishes or wait for a posible Gungnir 2 (or whatever new name they have in mind).
> 
> Whatever I do...  buy the current version and the next months a Gungnir 2 with better sound releases... Wait current version to vanish and never see a Gungnir 2... or Gungnir 2 with a sound not of my like. All are risky options. Liking the sound of the OG BF2, is a good deal buy the Gungnir now?


If a Gungnir 2 is like the BF 2/64 with TI chips, it’s going to sound different.
IMHO the BF2/64 is moving in a different direction.
The logical upgrade, from the BF2OG well more like ‘refinement’ is still the MB Gungnir.
And yes there is a worthwhile difference between the two.
Get ‘em while they still have the AD chips- IMHO.
I won’t get rid of my BF2OG… much too sweet, musical and euphoric.


----------



## automojo (Sep 21, 2022)

M-83 said:


> Looks like the card I received could be for an Yggy.
> 
> Schiit U.K. are being great about it and have said they will get any  mix up sorted out ASAP 👍🏻
> 
> ...


No.
The Unison blows away the previous USB cards making the USB sound as good as the other inputs.
It’s that good.
No reason to stick to Gen5


----------



## M-83

automojo said:


> No.
> The Unison blows away the previous USB cards making the USB sound as good as the other inputs.
> It’s that good.
> No reason to stick to Gen5


That's good to hear, thanks.  I'm on gen2 or gen3 usb right now and enjoying the sound.

The Unison card will arrive in the UK in 4-5 weeks' time so just waiting now.


----------



## twigfarm

artur9 said:


> I'm going to be looking for a worthy new home for my GMB (downsizing, y'know).
> Thought I'd check here for any interest first.


PM sent.


----------



## automojo

twigfarm said:


> PM sent.


A OG BF2, and MB GUNGNIR… in my opinion you have the ultimate dad collection you don’t need to go anywhere else!


----------



## cgb3

automojo said:


> A OG BF2, and MB GUNGNIR… in my opinion you have the ultimate dad collection you don’t need to go anywhere else!


Curious, what are the cool kids listening to now (assuming their Dads are "of means"?


----------



## automojo (Sep 22, 2022)

cgb3 said:


> Curious, what are the cool kids listening to now (assuming their Dads are "of means"?


Opps
My bad…DAC collection
Either I fat fingered it or was lazy using Siri

But sure kids use it
Late starter… twin 14 yo girls.
Them?
Rick Astley…of late.
Funny no Fine Young Cannibals, or Milli Vanilli… dancing like it’s 1989!.
But I should get my Gungnir back… and get it sent out for a Unison update…


----------



## twigfarm

automojo said:


> A OG BF2, and MB GUNGNIR… in my opinion you have the ultimate dad collection you don’t need to go anywhere else!


If the Gungnir works out as I'm hoping then the Bifrost would eventually have to go.  Not into collecting DACs or any equipment for that matter.  At this point in my life I just need one (decent) 2 channel system.


----------



## automojo (Sep 24, 2022)

twigfarm said:


> If the Gungnir works out as I'm hoping then the Bifrost would eventually have to go.  Not into collecting DACs or any equipment for that matter.  At this point in my life I just need one (decent) 2 channel system.


I hear you in that
My system has evolved into a 1.5 system
With the BF2 and a Modi3+.
I couldn’t turn down the Gungnir at that price.
Already was enjoying the BF2… so I wanted to make sure it was being used.
So you ended up getting that Gungnir?


----------



## automojo (Sep 24, 2022)

I need to get my Gungnir back-and do a serious comparison.
Mine was originally a D/S Gungnir-then upgraded to MB and Gen 5 by Schiit.
The BF2 ain't the same as the Gungnir.
In build or sound.
So I don't get the comments that the BF2 (or perhaps BF2/64 )is basically a Gungnir on the cheap.
I imagine some of this is in interpretation.
Perhaps system resolution, hearing resolution.
But even in this you tube video you can hear the difference.


----------



## artur9

automojo said:


> So I don't get the comments that the BF2 (or perhaps BF2/64 )is basically a Gungnir on the cheap.


People are always looking to get a deal.  We're all a little Ferengi, I guess


----------



## automojo

artur9 said:


> People are always looking to get a deal.  We're all a little Ferengi, I guess


I get that.
Myself as well.
Kinda a norm for most consumers.
But if they don't sound the same-then it's a deal on it's own merits.
Not as a replacement/substitute.


----------



## automojo (Sep 24, 2022)

Ok
I have been spending the last hour or so at my friend's house that has my Gungnir.
Besides some difference in tone/emphasis, a huge difference-as some have mentioned here is the location depth and width of the sound stage.
The BF2 is mainly in front of the speakers-extended out to the sides.
But with this added depth/width-because entails a slight emphasis on those frequencies that create a airy/depth situation, come the possibility that it's too much.
Especially with already airy tweets-like Heils, or Emits.
That's why I shipped it off to him-I was enjoying the BF2 OG too much, and didn't have the time for system adjustments.
IMHO it's the more 'analog' sounding of the 2-because of it's field of presentation, combined with the sound textures (both have these textures in different measure).
A probably a easier match for a wider number of systems.
Frankly a L/pad, or speaker/damping adjustment could easily make these issues mute, or by other electronic means.
The Gungnir definitely makes it easier to heard mid/midbass detail.
And overall it’s more realistic sounding for sure, despite sounding more ‘digital’ then the BF2OG.
I do think the BF2 is a bit euphoric sounding.. despite that it sounds plenty quick and detailed with a tube front end (Van Alstine).
FIY the Gungnir is playing through its balanced outputs.


----------



## schneller

Are you comparing BF/64 at all here?


----------



## automojo (Sep 25, 2022)

schneller said:


> Are you comparing BF/64 at all here?


No, sorry.
I like the OG version too much to change it.
Plus it will require some changes obviously in my system from the way it’s set up now.
It doesn’t appear to be a direct “ plug in”.
But agree it would be helpful.


----------



## Melting735

I once owned a gungnir MB gen5 from 2017. I believe it was the A2 board. I kinda miss it quite a lot now and consider getting another one to pair with the new FV. Is the current Gungnir actually the same version just a newer USB input?


----------



## tafens

Melting735 said:


> I once owned a gungnir MB gen5 from 2017. I believe it was the A2 board. I kinda miss it quite a lot now and consider getting another one to pair with the new FV. Is the current Gungnir actually the same version just a newer USB input?


Yes and no. As far as I know current Gungnir being sold now is the same analog section with Unison USB, but due to parts shortages it is missing the VXCO reclocker and has to make do with only VCO. It has serial numbers starting with L. That said, I use that Gungnir with my Folkvangr and it sounds fantastic.


----------



## Melting735

I see. Looks like no significant upgrade in 5 years. Any rumor that a new upgrade or sidegrade version is coming soon?


----------



## tafens

Melting735 said:


> I see. Looks like no significant upgrade in 5 years. Any rumor that a new upgrade or sidegrade version is coming soon?


Except for Unison USB I guess not. It still sounds fantastic though, and if you want one with the Analog Devices chips I suspect now is the time. I absolutely do not regret buying one in 2022 at all.


----------



## davidflas

Melting735 said:


> I see. Looks like no significant upgrade in 5 years. Any rumor that a new upgrade or sidegrade version is coming soon?


Jason did say in a live stream that they may have to transition to a version powered by TI chips, but that's about it.


----------



## bagwell359

automojo said:


> No.
> The Unison blows away the previous USB cards making the USB sound as good as the other inputs.
> It’s that good.
> No reason to stick to Gen5


Don't you have to send it to the factory for that, and they change out the A1 board if you have it, do they not?

Could be an urban legend but for almost 7 years now had an A1 which I put the Gen 5 in myself about 4-5 years back.  Nobody touches my Gumby.


----------



## automojo

bagwell359 said:


> Don't you have to send it to the factory for that, and they change out the A1 board if you have it, do they not?
> 
> Could be an urban legend but for almost 7 years now had an A1 which I put the Gen 5 in myself about 4-5 years back.  Nobody touches my Gumby.


Huh…
That’s your choice of course.
Schiit “touched” it plenty when they built the thing in the first place the first place.
I guess I don’t see the issue to reward yourself with much better performance.
They basically re-programmed the motherboard if you read the information on the website.
One of those urban legends that seems a lot better seven years ago then today…


----------



## davidflas (Oct 29, 2022)

bagwell359 said:


> Don't you have to send it to the factory for that, and they change out the A1 board if you have it, do they not?
> 
> Could be an urban legend but for almost 7 years now had an A1 which I put the Gen 5 in myself about 4-5 years back.  Nobody touches my Gumby.


I could be wrong, but as far as I know, changing the analog board is part of the $500 Multibit upgrade, so I don't think they would be giving that away free while doing the $200 Unison upgrade. I recently had my A1 Gumby upgraded to Unison, and am very happy with the results. Yes, you do have to send it into the factory to have the Unison upgrade performed.


----------



## bagwell359

automojo said:


> Huh…
> That’s your choice of course.
> Schiit “touched” it plenty when they built the thing in the first place the first place.


Funny.


automojo said:


> I guess I don’t see the issue to reward yourself with much better performance.
> They basically re-programmed the motherboard if you read the information on the website.
> One of those urban legends that seems a lot better seven years ago then today…



No the story only arrived after the Unison Board did, which was just short of 3 years I believe.

I do have the Gumby (I E. Multibit - 000541) with the USB5 which I put in myself.  Was that your path?  I also use only the balanced out.

I've got my mods and EQ (speakers and cans) all dialed in.  If it's any less analog sounding that what I have now, it wouldn't be good as I sold off $100k worth of vinyl and equipment based on this units sound - better with the USB5 which is/was reversible.

I've already re-read most of the thread at the 4 letter site - lots of staunch A1 fans over there... Mixed bag of opinions on the upgrade.

Thanks for your input.


----------



## thekorsen

Anyone have a Gen 5 USB board they'd be willing to sell? Having a hard time finding one compatible with a gungnir.

To keep this post from being a blatant ad, I'll  offer some impressions I posted on another forum:

Some impressions between the OG USB and Coax fed from a iDAC2 I picked up used as a cheap but hopefully decent converter. Note I am running equalizer APO using a modified version of Metal571's preset for the HD800 in both tests.

Setup:
Equalizer->PC->(Ifi Idac2)->Gungnir A1->Mjolnir 2 w/ Siemens ECC88->HD800

Idac2 USB to Coax to Gungnir vs USB (Gen 1?)

Less warm low-mid (less tubey?)
mid-highs elevated slightly (tracks have more "ting")
Illusion of soundstage compressed a bit (edges of stage seem more defined but stop sooner, almost abruptly)
Imaging a bit more precise
Honestly I might prefer the USB1, since I built this setup to maximize macrodynamics, stage size, and some tubey diffuseness. Maybe its my preference being for a distorted sound, the Idac2 not being a great coax transport, or the coloration difference affecting perceived staging a bit. Might mess with tuning out the tonal differences in EQ and doing another comparison.


----------



## M-83

I reached out to Schiit U.K. regarding the Unison upgrade as I wanted to ensure I would retain the A1 board, and I was advised the following:

“…we get the Unison board fit it to the unit and flash the main boards software to accept the Unison card and thats it.”

The A1 board is not replaced with A2. 

I’m am in two minds again as to whether to move to Unison from Gen2/Gen3 or if I should just carry on _*really*_ enjoying how my system sounds as it is. Better the devil you know and I know I much prefer Gumby A1 Gen2/Gen3 over Gumby A2 Gen5.

They may not be worlds apart but it’s the small things in life that make the difference.


----------



## automojo (Oct 29, 2022)

The Unison is only for the USB-so it doesn't effect anything else.
If you have the setup to hear the difference-it's like a layer of noise/garbage is removed.
Even if you don't-there no sonic draw back.
Not like it's harsh, change of tone or timber.
I can't honesty imagine anyone wanting to go back to Gen 5.
It doesn't make any sense, if you take a moment to analyze what your hearing.
If there's a negative change-I can assure you it isn't Unison vs Gen 5.
The lower numbers IMHO are really lousy-you can hear a clear difference in clarity resolution, smoothness-between USB and coax-even optical.
Not to mention connectivity.

This ain't like the BF2 OG-vs BF 2/64.
Or A1 vs A2.
Clearly different flavors.
I have had more then a few Schiit dac's.
USB was always so so.
Fairly lousy in some instances.
Pretty well documented the need for Schiit to get their Schiit together on the USB side in those days.
Instead of Schiit continuing complaining about Windows/MS-they got to it.

Gen 5 was a huge leap forward-but Unison is a worthwhile refinement, not to mention ease of use.
My opinions of course-everyone is free to discover and formulate their own.
But I would certainly be curious hearing some definitive sonic pluses of the older USB boards vs Unison.


----------



## automojo

I apologize about that earlier longer winded post.
The only thing that’s going to change how you Gumby sounds is the analog board or a DAC chip change (of course you can tune different chips- besides the point).
The reason Schiit changed the USB board because it was holding the sound back on that input, Plus the myriad of connectivity issues.
Well documented.
Plain and simple there’s no magic here.
The older boards just mean you’re hearing less of what you’re Gumby sounds like through the other inputs.
Maybe that’s what you want and that’s your choice. I get it.
But there isn’t any  sort of monkey business going on it’s pretty transparent in how the Dac’s are constructed, and what actually the USB board does, and doesn’t do.


----------



## M-83

@automojo both posts are welcome certainly by me. 

I have confirmed with Schiit U.K. that I’d like to proceed with the Unison usb interface. 

Awaiting to hear next steps. My Unison board has landed in the U.K. so just a case of getting the workshop time booked and Gumby sent.


----------



## automojo

Nice! 
Thanks I appreciate it.
I’m not trying to be harsh, or make anyone feel bad.
Just pointing out the obvious.
I get opinions, and matters of taste.
The Unison board is simply a smart choice if you really enjoy how your Gungnir sounds… no matter what flavor A1 A2.
You could easily spend the same amount in a USB cable.


----------



## davidflas

I've owned a few Schiit DACs. Bifrost Uber, Modi Multibit, Modius, Gungnir delta sigma with USB1, later USB2, upgraded to A1 Multibit, and most recently Unison. In my opinion, I feel that a robust power supply also contributes to sound quality.


----------



## weicheheck

I've been having this strange issue recently and was wondering if anyone has experienced this before. I am getting a sort of static electricity build-up happening in the left channel. I have tried swapping out headphones, swapping my amp, and swapping my pre-amp and no matter what I always end up feeling that static electricity build up. 

It seems like it could be dangerous as it can actually leave me with a headache on the left part of my brain. I would try swapping my dac but I currently only have the Gungnir to perform that function. Could this have something to do with some piece inside the Gungir being damage?

I tended to leave the Gungir on most the time so it was always warmed up and ready to go when I wanted to listen to music. I don't know if this may have caused additional wear and tear that could lead to something breaking.

My chain is USB Gen 5 Gungnir -> balanced to RCA to Schiit Saga -> FirstWatt F5 -> Hifiman He-6


----------



## automojo

weicheheck said:


> I've been having this strange issue recently and was wondering if anyone has experienced this before. I am getting a sort of static electricity build-up happening in the left channel. I have tried swapping out headphones, swapping my amp, and swapping my pre-amp and no matter what I always end up feeling that static electricity build up.
> 
> It seems like it could be dangerous as it can actually leave me with a headache on the left part of my brain. I would try swapping my dac but I currently only have the Gungnir to perform that function. Could this have something to do with some piece inside the Gungir being damage?
> 
> ...


Hard to say-but something is amiss.
The static sound is something failing/ground issue/solder joint/connection.
I would try a different source first-get the Gungnir out of the chain.


----------



## JohnnyCanuck

weicheheck said:


> I've been having this strange issue recently and was wondering if anyone has experienced this before. I am getting a sort of static electricity build-up happening in the left channel. I have tried swapping out headphones, swapping my amp, and swapping my pre-amp and no matter what I always end up feeling that static electricity build up.
> 
> It seems like it could be dangerous as it can actually leave me with a headache on the left part of my brain. I would try swapping my dac but I currently only have the Gungnir to perform that function. Could this have something to do with some piece inside the Gungir being damage?
> 
> ...



Have you verified that your grounding system is good?

JC


----------



## M-83

weicheheck said:


> I've been having this strange issue recently and was wondering if anyone has experienced this before. I am getting a sort of static electricity build-up happening in the left channel. I have tried swapping out headphones, swapping my amp, and swapping my pre-amp and no matter what I always end up feeling that static electricity build up.
> 
> It seems like it could be dangerous as it can actually leave me with a headache on the left part of my brain. I would try swapping my dac but I currently only have the Gungnir to perform that function. Could this have something to do with some piece inside the Gungir being damage?
> 
> ...


That’s a shame. Worth reaching out to Schiit for support and/or your local official reseller/distributor. 

Hope you get it resolved quickly.


----------



## M-83

My Gumby is on its way to Schiit U.K. for the  Unison usb install. Looking forward to getting it back in a few days.


----------



## weicheheck

automojo said:


> Hard to say-but something is amiss.
> The static sound is something failing/ground issue/solder joint/connection.
> I would try a different source first-get the Gungnir out of the chain.


its almost more a feeling than a sound, like I can feel the electricity in the air between my left ear and the driver, and like I can feel a little bit of a tingling sensation as well building up. Yes that was my thought as well I suppose I could look for a cheap USB DAC on Amazon for testing purposes


----------



## weicheheck

JohnnyCanuck said:


> Have you verified that your grounding system is good?
> 
> JC


I have had a staticy sound before that was noticeably affecting the noise floor in my system in the past but this is a bit of a different issue than that. I managed to get rid of that problem by switching around where some of my equipment was plugged in to avoid a ground loop.

That was a while ago though and I have since had to reroute some power cables again, but like I said just now it's not so much a static sound in the background issue, but more of a build up of actual electricity. Almost like there is some sort of extra electricity being sent in the signal to the left driver of my headphones that builds up to the point that I can perceive it.


----------



## bagwell359 (Nov 2, 2022)

KEY EDIT:

Well... I don't like either/or scenarios.

Some Gumby A1 owners think the Gen 5 to Unison does increase definition and clarity - but also seems overly warm (not necessarily bad). Others agree the BNC is the best input.

NOTE: BNC IS S/PDIF as I was informed.  Never used BNC before.  It looks like a COAX - oops....


That makes me think about the USB-C to BNC cables/adapters available.  The impedance/speed of data has to be examined for mismatches.   But it's reversable and I don't have to get a stand-in DAC, nor spend as much cash earmarked for my next can (D8000 in the lead).

The motto of the wonderful computer language Perl is TIMTOWTDI.  "There is more than one way to do it".   My motto too.

Funny that there are USB-C to BNC cables...


----------



## M-83 (Nov 1, 2022)

bagwell359 said:


> Well... I don't like either/or scenarios.


Yeah, sometimes how it goes though.



bagwell359 said:


> Some Gumby A1 owners think the Gen 5 to Unison does increase definition and clarity - but also seems overly warm (not necessarily bad). Others agree the BNC is the best input.


If an increase in clarity and definition is accompanied by more warmth I don’t think I’ll be unhappy with that. My A1 is going to go from Gen2 or Gen3 to Unison so assuming a reasonable change could be perceptible.

I’ve read that plenty of folks prefer BNC though it’s not an input I’ve used.



bagwell359 said:


> That makes me think about the USB-C to BNC cables/adapters available. The impedance/speed of data has to be examined for mismatches.


Very interesting, thx for mentioning- I did not know such adapters existed. I use an iPhone as my source device feeding Gumby so I assumed (awful I know!) that USB is required.



bagwell359 said:


> But it's reversable


A big plus, I agree.



bagwell359 said:


> I don't have to get a stand-in DAC


Also a good point, though Gumby should be with Schiit U.K. by 1300hrs tomorrow and hopefully I’ll have it back by Friday all things being equal.  Not too long to wait without a “spare” dac.


bagwell359 said:


> my next can (D8000 in the lead).


Nice- I’d love to try D8000. Out of my budget for the time being. Will hopefully experience it one day.


----------



## Voxata

M-83 said:


> Yeah, sometimes how it goes though.
> 
> 
> If an increase in clarity and definition is accompanied by more warmth I don’t think I’ll be unhappy with that. My A1 is going to go from Gen2 or Gen3 to Unison so assuming a reasonable change could be perceptible.
> ...



If you want to save some cash you can ask Schiit to send you a G5 module to install yourself. Either module is great for A1 Gungnir.


----------



## M-83

Voxata said:


> If you want to save some cash you can ask Schiit to send you a G5 module to install yourself. Either module is great for A1 Gungnir.


Thx though I’ve already enquired.

Due to exchange rates and shipping costs the G5 wouldn’t provide the same value vs Unison -if- it’s still available from USA. 

G5 isn’t in stock at Schiit U.K. 

I will say though that Schiit U.K. have been great to deal with.

I’ve already committed to Unison so will see how it turns out


----------



## bagwell359

Voxata said:


> If you want to save some cash you can ask Schiit to send you a G5 module to install yourself. Either module is great for A1 Gungnir.


Gen5 is a step up from the earlier board I had for sure.


----------



## schneller

Anyone compared Gungnir A2/Unison versus BF 2/64?


----------



## Voxata (Nov 1, 2022)

I prefer the BF2/64, then Yggdrasil LIM above that one.. obviously. If listening to more heavily processed/compressed music I prefer BF2 as it is more euphoric and less accurate. If it is any form of critical listening or I want to be wow'd.. Yggdrasil does the trick. Live music or anything with instruments is really good on the Yggdrasil. Gungnir has the benefit of a sort of wide sound to it that is rather nice, but can't compete with the B2 technical ability after the 64 upgrade. The A2 Gungnir has a sort of washed over sound IMO that is a bit aggressive after some time. The A1 is less dynamic but very tolerable and rather musical even. The A2 does sound good, so long as you can listen to it long term without issue. Unfortunately I am not one who can.


----------



## automojo

weicheheck said:


> I have had a staticy sound before that was noticeably affecting the noise floor in my system in the past but this is a bit of a different issue than that. I managed to get rid of that problem by switching around where some of my equipment was plugged in to avoid a ground loop.
> 
> That was a while ago though and I have since had to reroute some power cables again, but like I said just now it's not so much a static sound in the background issue, but more of a build up of actual electricity. Almost like there is some sort of extra electricity being sent in the signal to the left driver of my headphones that builds up to the point that I can perceive it.


Well if you think it’s electricity… I agree with the earlier post you really need to check your grounds
There’s a number of ways of doing this.
If you don’t have one of those three light testers I would purchase one first check your outlets
The your strips.
Then check for leakage on the casing of each componet
Especially where ever you plug your headphones into.
If you’re feeling actual electricity and you don’t have electrostatic headphones I would be worried.
I would be worried that you’re gonna ground yourself out and be the path to ground.
And you mentioning your rerouted your cords around I wonder if something became partially unplugged are you have a damaged cord.
If worse comes to worse than you have the money and you’re not sure how to do it maybe get a electrician to help you out.

Just my opinion I would refrain from using the equipment to get it figured out


----------



## emorrison33

weicheheck said:


> I've been having this strange issue recently and was wondering if anyone has experienced this before. I am getting a sort of static electricity build-up happening in the left channel. I have tried swapping out headphones, swapping my amp, and swapping my pre-amp and no matter what I always end up feeling that static electricity build up.
> 
> It seems like it could be dangerous as it can actually leave me with a headache on the left part of my brain. I would try swapping my dac but I currently only have the Gungnir to perform that function. Could this have something to do with some piece inside the Gungir being damage?
> 
> ...


I've read others replies to your issue.  Always great advice on Head-Fi! I had a thought though.  Maybe it's the headphones themsleves? Or the wire to the headphones? Do you have another pair to test with?


----------



## automojo

Yiigy Plus++


----------



## M-83

automojo said:


> Yiigy Plus++


Saw that. Interesting. 

Personally I’ll stick with Gumby for a while though. I’d need to save up for an Yggy. 

The LiM sounds appealing.


----------



## DeckHiFi

Voxata said:


> I prefer the BF2/64, then Yggdrasil LIM above that one.. obviously. If listening to more heavily processed/compressed music I prefer BF2 as it is more euphoric and less accurate. If it is any form of critical listening or I want to be wow'd.. Yggdrasil does the trick. Live music or anything with instruments is really good on the Yggdrasil. Gungnir has the benefit of a sort of wide sound to it that is rather nice, but can't compete with the B2 technical ability after the 64 upgrade. The A2 Gungnir has a sort of washed over sound IMO that is a bit aggressive after some time. The A1 is less dynamic but very tolerable and rather musical even. The A2 does sound good, so long as you can listen to it long term without issue. Unfortunately I am not one who can.


The perfect sales pitch for BF 2/64 and Yggdrasil LIM. Schiit should have this post on their website. Of course, they might not sell any Gungnir if they did, but I don't think they care or need to. Damn, you make me want to have both, ha.


----------



## Brubacca

I’ve been saving for Yggy since I got my Gen 2 usb Analog 1 Gumby. Never got there. Not going to get there. 

Gumby works great for me. I had a difficult time system matching, but am on a great combo now. It’s taken a few years to get there.


----------



## bgalakazam

Recestly got a Lyr+. Before that Gungnir MB was used with a Magni 3. Current headphones are HD800S. Obviously, headphones are the most noticeable upgrade. Went from HD598 to PS500e to HD800S. I got the Unison USB and VCXO. I like the way it sounds and will keep it. Don't really see the Yggdrassil+ much changed over Yggdrassil. I don't like the LiM and MiL, nor the NOS, nor the remote. And with the slow amount of upgrades coming in, I will be on Gungnir for a while.


----------



## automojo

Brubacca said:


> I’ve been saving for Yggy since I got my Gen 2 usb Analog 1 Gumby. Never got there. Not going to get there.
> 
> Gumby works great for me. I had a difficult time system matching, but am on a great combo now. It’s taken a few years to get there.


I agree if you matched your system for this DAC.. you’re not gonna be able to simply plug-in  a Yiggy and expect it to sound better.
Just my opinion I think a lot of people get caught up in the Schiit storm of new products… and don’t think things out rationally concerning their system.
I mean it’s just common sense if you have your system optimize for a certain sounding DAC… be prepared to do that with one that sounds different


----------



## schneller

I wish I knew which Schiit DAC has the most airy, sparkly treble. BF 2/64, Gungnir Multibit, or LIM? A different one?


----------



## ColtMrFire

schneller said:


> I wish I knew which Schiit DAC has the most airy, sparkly treble. BF 2/64, Gungnir Multibit, or LIM? A different one?



I've heard and/or owned them all.  Gungnir Multibit has the most extended top end of those DACs.


----------



## StimpyWan

weicheheck said:


> I've been having this strange issue recently and was wondering if anyone has experienced this before. I am getting a sort of static electricity build-up happening in the left channel. I have tried swapping out headphones, swapping my amp, and swapping my pre-amp and no matter what I always end up feeling that static electricity build up.
> 
> It seems like it could be dangerous as it can actually leave me with a headache on the left part of my brain. I would try swapping my dac but I currently only have the Gungnir to perform that function. Could this have something to do with some piece inside the Gungir being damage?
> 
> ...



Could you have a failing tube in your Saga?  That can cause static, channel imbalances, and distortion.  Easy enough to check too, if you have a spare tube?  Even pulling the currently installed tube, cleaning it's pins, and reinstalling it, could help.  Tube pins can be touchy, about making good socket contact.

Also, leaving the Gumby on 24/7 won't hurt it.  Better for it, electrically.  Just risky, if you get some type of power surge.

Good luck.


----------



## M-83

davidflas said:


> I've owned a few Schiit DACs. Bifrost Uber, Modi Multibit, Modius, Gungnir delta sigma with USB1, later USB2, upgraded to A1 Multibit, and most recently Unison. In my opinion, I feel that a robust power supply also contributes to sound quality.


Do you mean improved power cable relating to Gumby A1? Because there’s no external power brick with it. 

I’m going to look into upgrading the mains power wall socket (U.K.) but unsure whether worth it.


----------



## davidflas

M-83 said:


> Do you mean improved power cable relating to Gumby A1? Because there’s no external power brick with it.
> 
> I’m going to look into upgrading the mains power wall socket (U.K.) but unsure whether worth it.


I was referring to the internal circuitry supplying power to the DAC, I think what happens in the analog realm is just as important as what happens in the digital realm.


----------



## M-83

Gumby A1 arrived home today with Unison usb now fitted by Schiit Uk who have provided a first class experience in customer service. 

I’ve had just under a couple of hours listening time and I’m already very impressed. 

Stunned at the improvement in sound quality even at this early stage. 

Thanks to those on this thread that provided insight and advice on Unison prior to me going ahead with it.


----------



## davidflas (Nov 18, 2022)

M-83 said:


> Gumby A1 arrived home today with Unison usb now fitted by Schiit Uk who have provided a first class experience in customer service.
> 
> I’ve had just under a couple of hours listening time and I’m already very impressed.
> 
> ...


I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the upgrade. For me it was an amazing improvement in sound quality across the board.


----------



## M-83

davidflas said:


> I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the upgrade. For me it was an amazing improvement in sound quality across the board.


Thanks. Yeah agreed the Tonality is intact but the detail, clarity, imaging, bass quantity/quality etc has all improved. 

Like going from HD on an LED TV to UHD HDR on an OLED TV.


----------



## davidflas

M-83 said:


> Thanks. Yeah agreed the Tonality is intact but the detail, clarity, imaging, bass quantity/quality etc has all improved.
> 
> Like going from HD on an LED TV to UHD HDR on an OLED TV.


I agree with the TV comparison as well, since I went OLED, that's the only kind of TV I'll buy going forward.


----------



## M-83

davidflas said:


> I agree with the TV comparison as well, since I went OLED, that's the only kind of TV I'll buy going forward.


 I moved to OLED in 2016 and haven’t looked back since. I couldn’t have anything else now.


----------



## Preface

I am torn between Gungnir and Yggdrasil LIM. In favor of Gungnir is of course price, weight and footprint. The thing that bothers me in Gungnir is VCXO -> VCO downgrade. How important is it?
And I would be very grateful for your opinions about this choice.


----------



## bgalakazam

Not that bad if you have good source. I have Gungnir MB when VCXO was there. I would have gotter a OG Yggdrassil, but didn't have the money. I don't want to get the LiM.

You will be happy with either one, however.


----------



## artur9

I ordered a Magni Piety from Nitsch.  Only outboard DAC I have at the moment is my Gumby.

It'll look terrible and sound amazing, I'm sure :-D


----------



## M-83 (Nov 21, 2022)

artur9 said:


> I ordered a Magni Piety from Nitsch.  Only outboard DAC I have at the moment is my Gumby.
> 
> It'll look terrible and sound amazing, I'm sure :-D


Nice- it’s an interesting concept and should  sound great. A friend of mine @Hyde00 ordered one - although he does not have a Gumby (I keep recommending that he gets one though I think he’d really enjoy it.

It seems to resemble garage1217’s Project Polaris in concept - solid state amp mimicking tube amp sound profile. 

Please let us know how you get on with Piety.


----------



## davidflas

Preface said:


> I am torn between Gungnir and Yggdrasil LIM. In favor of Gungnir is of course price, weight and footprint. The thing that bothers me in Gungnir is VCXO -> VCO downgrade. How important is it?
> And I would be very grateful for your opinions about this choice.


I've had my Gumby a long time, and I haven't seen the VCXO light go on in many years. My sources are a TV, a 4K Blu-ray player, and a MacBook Air.


----------



## twigfarm

davidflas said:


> I've had my Gumby a long time, and I haven't seen the VCXO light go on in many years. My sources are a TV, a 4K Blu-ray player, and a MacBook Air.


From what the manual says, if the lights *not on* then VCXO reclocking is successfully engaged. If the light is *on*, then VCXO is bypassed and the unit using VCO.


----------



## twigfarm

Hey folks!

Back on page 440 on this forum I posted that rather than spend $300 on the upgrade board for my Bifrost 2, I was thinking of putting that money plus the proceeds of the eventual sale of my Bifrost towards just getting a better DAC. For various reasons the Gungnir was on my shortlist of DACs and seemed like a logical step up.

Well, I just bought & received a Gungnir MB with the A1 board from the original owner who also updated the USB to Gen 5 (which I don’t use anyway).

Great sounding DAC except for one thing – the INSANE constant clicking when I pause a CD. So, I googled “gungnir insane clicking CD” and found a members’ post on page 382 who had the same problem, using a Cambridge CXC transport. That’s the transport I’m using! Seems like this was a known anomaly and the general consensus was to add a reclocker which the member did and, voila, clicking GONE!

So here’s my question – why did/does Schiit seem to make a big deal about their onboard VCXO/VCO if you need a reclocker for the unit to behave? Based on Schiit’s claims I would have thought the Gungnir (like all their DACs) would be immune from this behavior. My Bifrost doesn’t do it – perfectly silent when pausing a CD - and that member from page 382 also has an Yggdrasil and THAT doesn’t do it either with the Cambridge. So what’s different about the Gungnir that makes it susceptible to this behavior while their other DACs aren’t. And are there any other solutions outside of adding a reclocker? I’d hate to spend even more $ than I already have just so I can pause CDs in peace & quiet.

Any thoughts? And I hope you all have a very nice Thanksgiving.

Thank you.


----------



## twigfarm

And does anyone else's Gungnir have what I would call a "spongey-feeling" coax input?  Mine has a little play/movement when connecting a cable to it.


----------



## artur9

twigfarm said:


> And does anyone else's Gungnir have what I would call a "spongey-feeling" coax input?  Mine has a little play/movement when connecting a cable to it.


Mine does (original owner here).  I forget what made me check.  When I put it up for sale the prospect was concerned.  I haven't noticed anything, though.


----------



## M-83

twigfarm said:


> Hey folks!
> 
> Back on page 440 on this forum I posted that rather than spend $300 on the upgrade board for my Bifrost 2, I was thinking of putting that money plus the proceeds of the eventual sale of my Bifrost towards just getting a better DAC. For various reasons the Gungnir was on my shortlist of DACs and seemed like a logical step up.
> 
> ...


I’ve previously had 2x Gumby A2 (both with Gen5 usb) and now have a Gumby A1 that was recently upgraded from Gen2 usb to Unison usb  

All variants/specs have clicked when skipping from one track to another with some (not all) music.

I currently use Apple Music via my iPhone 12 Pro Max which is connected via Apple CCK and a decent usb cable into Unison- still get clicks.

Doesn’t bother me though lol.


----------



## artur9

twigfarm said:


> <clicking with>
> 
> using a Cambridge CXC transport.


Is that a problem with non-gapless playback?


----------



## twigfarm

M-83 said:


> I’ve previously had 2x Gumby A2 (both with Gen5 usb) and now have a Gumby A1 that was recently upgraded from Gen2 usb to Unison usb
> 
> All variants/specs have clicked when skipping from one track to another with some (not all) music.
> 
> ...


I'm familiar with the "normal" clicking - I've owned a Bifrost 2 for the past 2 years and still do.  The clicking I'm talking about & that's described on page 382 by another member is a constant, rapid, incessant clicking while a CD is paused which doesn't stop until the CD is either un-paused or stopped.  VERY annoying.


----------



## twigfarm

artur9 said:


> Mine does (original owner here).  I forget what made me check.  When I put it up for sale the prospect was concerned.  I haven't noticed anything, though.


Thank you.


----------



## schneller

Any Gungnir Multibit Unison owners buy a Bifrost 2/64 or Yggdrasil LIM? Any listening impressions?


----------



## twigfarm

Looks like Schiit's having a Black Friday clearance sale and clearing out A LOT of stock:

https://www.schiit.com/b-stocks

Some very nice deals there!


----------



## tezla7

Hey folks, I picked up a new Gungnir Multibit latest spec.

I'm sure this question has been done to death sorry but, I haven't actually been able to find many answers other than- wait for ages and leave it on for ages.  Anyone got an idea of how long these DACs take to run in, burn in etc?  And potential changes in sound there might be?  I'm a bit underwhelmed after about 20 hours on, although I do think it is sounding better than first switch on.  I know I should be patient and wait for... err, a week?  Or.... something but, yeah.  Patience has never been my strong suit.  Also the whole- leaving the DAC on 24/7 debate is a thing.  I calculated it would cost me £4.5 per month to run it 24/7.  I'd rather not waste energy or money at all if I don't have to but... that is just about acceptable as a £ cost.  I'm coming from a Chord Mojo 2 so not apples to apples, but I already owned a Qutest in the past so wanted to try something different.


----------



## bildar

I have a A2 Gungnir since about 2018. I would suggest giving it a couple of weeks of burn in at least to know for sure if you like it. I personally liked how mine sounded within the first 30 minutes of being turned on and that is still the case 4 years on. my unit seems to settle in and sound fantastic after being on for about 30 minutes. I don’t leave mine powered on 24/7 for weeks on end. My landlord covers utilities and I don’t want to be a jerk and waste his money.


----------



## bagwell359

davidflas said:


> I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the upgrade. For me it was an amazing improvement in sound quality across the board.


OK, its either the iFi Stream (if I can't get my new iPhone 13 to play with my Gumby) or this.


----------



## M-83

bagwell359 said:


> OK, its either the iFi Stream (if I can't get my new iPhone 13 to play with my Gumby) or this.


What is the issue with your iPhone 13?


----------



## bagwell359 (Nov 30, 2022)

M-83 said:


> What is the issue with your iPhone 13?


Dont have it yet.  I stream TIDAL hi-res through LG v40 to my Gumby (USB-B 2.0) and get the first fold 24/192.  I probably will go to QOBUZ since the TIDAL is detoothed, but, the iPhone 13 mini is lightning to usb-c 3.0 and the few cables that do lightning to USB-B 3.0 or 2.0  don't seem to work for users going from iPhone 13 mini.  I don't want to blow time and money finding that out myself.  So if someone actually knows it works - that would be great!  and then I can send in my Gumby for the upgrade now, and not save my pennies for later.


----------



## M-83

bagwell359 said:


> Dont have it yet.  I stream TIDAL hi-res through LG v40 to my Gumby (USB-B 2.0) and get the first fold 24/192.  I probably will go to QOBUZ since the TIDAL is detoothed, but, the iPhone 13 mini is lightning to usb-c 3.0 and the few cables that do lightning to USB-B 3.0 or 2.0  don't seem to work for users going from iPhone 13 mini.  I don't want to blow time and money finding that out myself.  So if someone actually knows it works - that would be great!  and then I can send in my Gumby for the upgrade now, and not save my pennies for later.


Ah okay. 

I use my iPhone 12 Pro Max with Gumby. I play Apple Music streaming service - their high res Lossless format.

I plug this into my iPhone… an oem official Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter https://amzn.eu/7sJWUFO

An oem official 2m lightning cable connects the camera adapter to an oem official Apple wall plug. 

This 3m usb cable connects the camera adapter to Gumby….NEO by Oyaide d+ USB (Class A) – Hi-Speed and Durable Digital Cable for DJ’s, Musicians and Producers NEOUSBA3M, 3 Meter https://amzn.eu/4efmsmb

It all works as plug and play with no drivers or third party software needed. 

Small additional benefit is my phone gets charged up too. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## bagwell359

M-83 said:


> Ah okay.
> 
> I use my iPhone 12 Pro Max with Gumby. I play Apple Music streaming service - their high res Lossless format.


12 is USB 2.0, 13 is 3.0.  The two lightening to USB-B cables that worked for 11 and 12 and documented not to work on the 13 - one user in one, and the vendor in the other.


M-83 said:


> I plug this into my iPhone… an oem official Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter https://amzn.eu/7sJWUFO


I think my iPhone has this adaptor - I'll know when I get it.  I hate leaving my LG, but, its dying and I got a $30 unlimited line and the Iphone 13 mini for $99.


M-83 said:


> An oem official 2m lightning cable connects the camera adapter to an oem official Apple wall plug.
> 
> This 3m usb cable connects the camera adapter to Gumby….NEO by Oyaide d+ USB (Class A) – Hi-Speed and Durable Digital Cable for DJ’s, Musicians and Producers NEOUSBA3M, 3 Meter


I have the Oyaide USB-c to USB-B - and its a very good cable.


M-83 said:


> https://amzn.eu/4efmsmb
> 
> It all works as plug and play with no drivers or third party software needed.


I will certainly try it out - thanks for the valuable information!




M-83 said:


> Small additional benefit is my phone gets charged up too.
> 
> Hope this helps.


----------



## M-83

bagwell359 said:


> 12 is USB 2.0, 13 is 3.0. The two lightening to USB-B cables that worked for 11 and 12 and documented not to work on the 13 - one user in one, and the vendor in the other.


I see, to be honest the 12 Pro Max has been great and I can’t justify the cost of upgrading to a newer model (yet). I hadn’t realised these issues exist. 

Hopefully between the oems they can work kinks out. 

Could you keep using your V40 just as a source  device for Gumby? If you have enough available device licenses free. I think Apple Music gives option for installing Apple Music 5 or 6 devices with the family option. 



bagwell359 said:


> I have the Oyaide USB-c to USB-B - and its a very good cable.


Cool, I’m really pleased with my cable. I wonder how much (if any) SQ degrades from having to use the CCK. 



bagwell359 said:


> will certainly try it out - thanks for the valuable information!


You’re welcome! Hope you get it all working well.


----------



## bagwell359

M-83 said:


> I see, to be honest the 12 Pro Max has been great and I can’t justify the cost of upgrading to a newer model (yet). I hadn’t realised these issues exist.
> 
> Hopefully between the oems they can work kinks out.
> 
> Could you keep using your V40 just as a source  device for Gumby? If you have enough available device licenses free. I think Apple Music gives option for installing Apple Music 5 or 6 devices with the family option.



Hmm.  I admit I'm not nearly as clued in on the digital side.  I will see.


M-83 said:


> Cool, I’m really pleased with my cable. I wonder how much (if any) SQ degrades from having to use the CCK.
> 
> 
> You’re welcome! Hope you get it all working well.


Me too... Thanks.


----------



## M-83

bagwell359 said:


> Hmm. I admit I'm not nearly as clued in on the digital side. I will see.


Apple Music on android is good. I’ll check on my wife’s phone tomorrow but I think the android version has a built in EQ. 

I used to use Amazon Music HD but it’s gone downhill. I never liked Tidal or Quobuz. 


bagwell359 said:


> Me too... Thanks.


👍🏻


----------



## jurumal

M-83 said:


> I’ve previously had 2x Gumby A2 (both with Gen5 usb) and now have a Gumby A1 that was recently upgraded from Gen2 usb to Unison usb


Any particular audible differences between gen 5 and unison in your opinion?


----------



## bagwell359

jurumal said:


> Any particular audible differences between gen 5 and unison in your opinion?


Just go above a bit, quite a bit on that.


----------



## artur9

tezla7 said:


> Hey folks, I picked up a new Gungnir Multibit latest spec.
> 
> I'm sure this question has been done to death sorry but, I haven't actually been able to find many answers other than- wait for ages and leave it on for ages.  Anyone got an idea of how long these DACs take to run in, burn in etc?


I documented my experience on this thread with my OG Gumby.  Take about a week to ten days before I stopped hearing changes.
IIRC, there was a period where it sound pretty lackluster and then all the multibit happiness started coming through.


----------



## timmybob

artur9 said:


> I documented my experience on this thread with my OG Gumby.  Take about a week to ten days before I stopped hearing changes.
> IIRC, there was a period where it sound pretty lackluster and then all the multibit happiness started coming through.


I had a similar experience. And now I never turn it off! Always sounds different from cold...


----------



## automojo (Dec 14, 2022)

Still haven’t gotten any further with the upgrade board.
With the Primaluna Prologue 4 (I also purchased a prologue five as well.. KT-88).
Everything from satellite radio to cd to Amazon Music assaulting way too good I’m not gonna mess with it!!.
Swapped out the Prima EL34 for GL KT77, but that’s it.
It’s a refined EL-34.
Both power tubes sound pretty damn amazing IMHO.
Briefly tried a quad of low hour KT-120’s in the 4.
Not my cup of tea.
Have not listened to the KT88’s too much yet, but they seem well balanced from what I briefly heard.
The amp was voiced with them. 
I think my set up really benefits from the sealed bass box woofers in both pairs of speakers.


----------



## bagwell359

tezla7 said:


> Hey folks, I picked up a new Gungnir Multibit latest spec.
> 
> I'm sure this question has been done to death sorry but, I haven't actually been able to find many answers other than- wait for ages and leave it on for ages.  Anyone got an idea of how long these DACs take to run in, burn in etc?  And potential changes in sound there might be?  I'm a bit underwhelmed after about 20 hours on, although I do think it is sounding better than first switch on.  I know I should be patient and wait for... err, a week?  Or.... something but, yeah.  Patience has never been my strong suit.  Also the whole- leaving the DAC on 24/7 debate is a thing.  I calculated it would cost me £4.5 per month to run it 24/7.  I'd rather not waste energy or money at all if I don't have to but... that is just about acceptable as a £ cost.  I'm coming from a Chord Mojo 2 so not apples to apples, but I already owned a Qutest in the past so wanted to try something different.


4 days on does it for me.  Only goes off when there are nasty electrical storms nearby or power failures.


----------



## automojo (Dec 14, 2022)

That’s about $66 per year (20 watt).
I started figuring that out a while back with the BF2.
I was stubborn about leaving it on, but it really only takes about a half hour to be fine at the most.
Not like it sucks when it’s cold.
The Gunigar and BF1 MB aren’t that way.
I think I will just start looking at my listening sessions and try to time it so you turned it on the required warm up time.
I think part of the reason is I need to fully break it in, so I would leave it on 24 seven a couple weeks. 
Then do some experimenting for the required warm up time.
My Gungnir MB and BF1 MB Wasn’t more than a couple hours, but I would turn it on in the morning if I was going to listen to it in the evening, for example.
Especially if it’s winter and you have the heat turned down when you’re not at home.
If you think about it, it’s kind of a crappy deal they need to be warmed up like that, but I can’t think of any other way getting around it .
The TDA NOS Dacs like the Project DAC BOX S FL, and the Muse were exactly the same deal, about a hour or 2.
They just seem to design these chips to operate the best when they were fully warmed up, which make sense.
You certainly wouldn’t want it the opposite.
It’s too bad they can’t, for example, ramp up the voltage to the chips to warm them up quicker, some sort of warm up stage.
Then back off.
I know the MuseNOS TDAx 4 could take a surprisingly wide range of voltage 12 volts stock
8 ‘-9 volts ideal.
It certainly warmed up very quickly with 12 volts.
Same way with the NOS Project DAC ( Fl vs S FL)
The earlier version used a different voltage in the later versions.
I can’t remember I’ll have to do a little research, but I think the earlier versions use less voltage than the later versions.


----------



## automojo

But frankly after going all tube, it’s not a huge deal, you can enjoy even the warm up.
Primaluna reminds me of Schiit
Huge sound value per $ (or pound, etc) invested.


----------



## bagwell359

I got over my audio nervosa for the most part by 1995, but my headphone era has proven a couple of things the ABX crowd would gag on.

1. HFM stock cables are so bad sonically that even a basic DIY or a lower priced unit from a 3rd party kills them - and yes I've blind A/B'd them.

2. The Rag 1 needs maybe :45 minutes to get fully warmed, but on my own I found out that my Gumby 1 MB does need more time.  Its less focused (not quite confused) about the boundaries of instruments, and has a subtle gray haze thing going on if its on for just 2, 6, or 24 hours.  It then slightly changes - and somewhere before 96 hours but after 80, it stops changing.  cheap caps that take a long time to squeeze out H2O or just O2?  whatever.  It has been noted by quite a few, so the specter of the invisible fabric of the Emperor does become a thing for the ABX'ers to attack with.

3. HFM stock round can pads also suck.


----------



## automojo

I have to admit though, 99% I  usually leave them on.
The BF2 OG defiantly gets warmer then the Gumby.
I did a bit of experimenting  the last week it’s about 6-7 hours for it  to sound like it does when it’s simply left on.
I thinks it’s more about the DA chip vs caps/ resistors.
Schiit uses pretty high quality supporting components. Is


----------



## macdonjh

automojo said:


> I have to admit though, 99% I  usually leave them on.
> The BF2 OG *defiantly* gets warmer then the Gumby.
> I did a bit of experimenting  the last week it’s about 6-7 hours for it  to sound like it does when it’s simply left on.
> I thinks it’s more about the DA chip vs caps/ resistors.
> Schiit uses pretty high quality supporting components. Is


Bifrost 2 is showing off?

Funny typo/ spell checker error...


----------



## twigfarm

automojo said:


> I have to admit though, 99% I  usually leave them on.
> The BF2 OG defiantly gets warmer then the Gumby.
> I did a bit of experimenting  the last week it’s about 6-7 hours for it  to sound like it does when it’s simply left on.
> I thinks it’s more about the DA chip vs caps/ resistors.
> Schiit uses pretty high quality supporting components. Is


Interesting. My A1 Gumby _definitely_ gets *defiantly* warmer than my Bifrost 2.  Also takes a little longer to warm up from a cold start than the BF.


----------



## automojo

macdonjh said:


> Bifrost 2 is showing off?
> 
> Funny typo/ spell checker error...


Siri....


----------



## automojo

twigfarm said:


> Interesting. My A1 Gumby _definitely_ gets *defiantly* warmer than my Bifrost 2.  Also takes a little longer to warm up from a cold start than the BF.


Sure-seems strange-it used to vary a bit depending on if it was in use or not.
The last month or 2 seems to be warm all the time.
Still sounds fine-hard to say what's going on.


----------



## twigfarm

automojo said:


> Sure-seems strange-it used to vary a bit depending on if it was in use or not.
> The last month or 2 seems to be warm all the time.
> Still sounds fine-hard to say what's going on.


Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the longer warm-up time but, yes, my Gumby definitely runs warmer than my BF (which, of course, runs warm also), especially when in use.


----------



## Brubacca

I have a Gumby A1 with Unison USB.  My transport is Raspberry Pi4 with Ropieee, so I'm using Roon. Some days it just sounds very soft or too laid back for rock music. I only mean like Dave Matthews Band, not even Metallica. I have to turn it up to 11 to enjoy it. 

I know its probably me, but I'm wondering if Coax or BNC digital would sound better for music that drives a bit. 

Am I crazy or has anyone else gone through this?

I was thinking of maybe getting Pi2AES board for the Raspberry Pi or possibly a different transport. 

Thanks and happy new year.


----------



## sheldaze

@Brubacca there is a certain softening or bloom associated with Unision, combined with the slightly sweet sound of the Gungnir Multibit. I was listening to this exact thing recently and was surprised to hear a little less of that softening by doing what you suggest, connecting to either the COAX or BNC instead of USB. Pi2AES could further move the needle due to its detailed sound. But these are still minor tweaks in the realm of component changes.


----------



## Brubacca

sheldaze said:


> @Brubacca there is a certain softening or bloom associated with Unision, combined with the slightly sweet sound of the Gungnir Multibit. I was listening to this exact thing recently and was surprised to hear a little less of that softening by doing what you suggest, connecting to either the COAX or BNC instead of USB. Pi2AES could further move the needle due to its detailed sound. But these are still minor tweaks in the realm of component changes.


I like the softness with a lot of music I listen too. Listening to the likes of Jack Johnson , James Taylor... you probably get it where I am going with it. Sometimes I do want a bit of bite to the music, but it would be either coax or another inexpensive DAC like modi+ or ModiMultibit 2


----------



## sheldaze

I do have Pi2AES and it is an excellent solution. But for a small footprint option, especially if you just want to flip back and forth between USB and COAX on your Gungnir, the iFi ZEN Stream is a good option, and what I was using to A/B.

I'm still trying to form my thoughts on Modi+ or Modi Multibit 2. A lot of it depends. MM2 is likely more lively in the highs versus Gungnir, however the power supply in the Gungnir keeps the lows more stately (accurate, quick, strong) and softer on MM2. Modi+ is where my descriptors really stumble a little, because in some ways it is more and in other ways it is less. Whereas the switch from Gungnir to MM2 is easier to describe, being in a similar realm of sound, the same switch to D/S in Modi+ causes many other things to happen to the sound. The amount of treble is less than MM2, but subjectively the treble can be heard as better-sounding, more pleasing from MM2 (read as harsher, and a little more grating from Modi+). And when you add Unison to the mix, I heard the MM2 as further pleasing relative to the Modi+. So perhaps the Modi+ is the kind of sound you are seeking to rock out on, and it would be less of a price to purchase for an experiment.


----------



## Brubacca

sheldaze said:


> I do have Pi2AES and it is an excellent solution. But for a small footprint option, especially if you just want to flip back and forth between USB and COAX on your Gungnir, the iFi ZEN Stream is a good option, and what I was using to A/B.
> 
> I'm still trying to form my thoughts on Modi+ or Modi Multibit 2. A lot of it depends. MM2 is likely more lively in the highs versus Gungnir, however the power supply in the Gungnir keeps the lows more stately (accurate, quick, strong) and softer on MM2. Modi+ is where my descriptors really stumble a little, because in some ways it is more and in other ways it is less. Whereas the switch from Gungnir to MM2 is easier to describe, being in a similar realm of sound, the same switch to D/S in Modi+ causes many other things to happen to the sound. The amount of treble is less than MM2, but subjectively the treble can be heard as better-sounding, more pleasing from MM2 (read as harsher, and a little more grating from Modi+). And when you add Unison to the mix, I heard the MM2 as further pleasing relative to the Modi+. So perhaps the Modi+ is the kind of sound you are seeking to rock out on, and it would be less of a price to purchase for an experiment.


Thanks for the details. Its really helpful. I have a tube amp and ribbon tweeter speakers from Monitor Audio (a brand known to be a bit treble forward).  I'm in a small room with not a ton of bass anyway (2x 4" drivers).  

Its a tough call as I can really only do one: Modi+, MM2 or Pi2AES Lite. I have an extra input on my Amp so 2 dacs isn't the worst either.

Thanks again for the descriptors as they are quite helpful.


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## sheldaze

Brubacca said:


> I have a tube amp and ribbon tweeter speakers from Monitor Audio (a brand known to be a bit treble forward). I'm in a small room with not a ton of bass anyway (2x 4" drivers).


Speakers kind of changes the equation for me. Though I've not used Modi+ for speakers, the foundation that Gungnir (and Yggdrasil) create are phenomenal on speakers. Even Bifrost 2 (OG not the 2/64) lost a little something to the foundation of sound that I heard from Gungnir.

I'm also just plain curious to read about Pi2AES-LITE! With Gungnir, you don't have a need for the additional AES/EBU interface. Connect a BNC cable to the LITE and hopefully it sings!


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## schneller

@sheldaze I've got Modi MB, MM2, Gungnir MB/A2U, and BF 2/64 if you want to come over and hear them on speakers. My door is always open to you.


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## Mtavares_12

I have a Pi2AES with a Gungnir A2 (USB Gen 5). I use it with a speaker configuration and I like the result so much.  In my configuration, the Pi2AES BNC output is better than the USB: better definition, clarity, instrument separation and  soundstage. 
The Pi2AES Lite can be a good choice for those who have already a Rpi.


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## Brubacca

I threw in an old Oppo DVD player to use as a transport. Fed my Gumby coax digital signal and tried a couple CDs. Definitely a bit more focused and detailed over the Coax.  Maybe too bright, but that could be the OPPO. Need to listen some more, but this may lead me to the Pi2AES- Lite. I also have an old Squeezebox Touch that I can throw in the mix and try the Coax. Going to do some more listening,


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## ScrapIron (Yesterday at 12:19 PM)

Just picked up a Gumby MB w/Unison... using the coax out of my Denon 955 player then RCAs to my Anthem and yeah, music is engaging.

Need to get a Pi for streaming but haven't pulled the trigger due to cost. Was told to get a Pi 4 due to better USB, but reading the above, maybe a Pi3 with Pi2AES is another option (Pi 3 easier/cheaper to get). Whoa, that hat is $250.

Speakers are B&W CDM 1NT, I don't think they're bright, but they are crispier than Boston VR30s.

Denon 955 > Gungnir > Anthem MRX520 > CDM 1NT
Using an old Tribituries coax cable and some Audioquest SE to the AVR. Tellurium Q Black speaker cables.


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## Mtavares_12 (Saturday at 10:15 AM)

@ScrapIron
I am observing that you are experiencing a similar situation when I started to use a streamer in my system. I would like to share the steps of my journey with you.

1) Rpi4 (USB) + Low profile cooler: https://geekworm.com/products/raspb...e-compatible-with-raspberry-pi-4-model-b-only
2) Add a Pi2AES (BNC)
3) Add a 24V  Linear Power Supply

In all these steps I had an improvement in the audio quality. In the step 1) It took me some time to learn how to setup properly the RPi OS and the streaming services. (Currenty I am using MoOde).

Another options to consider  are two new streamers on the market that are more expensive, but it will make your journey easier and with better sound quality.
a) Mercury V2 - https://www.pi2design.com/mercury-streamer-v2.html
b) HoloAudio Red - https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-red-ddc-network-streamer/

Gungnir is a great DAC and it needs to have a good streamer to demonstrate its full potential.

Good auditions!

QJA
Marcos


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## ScrapIron

Thanks Marco- just the info to help me get started!

Appreciate the suggestions of alternates- but that’s outside what I want to spend. Agree on getting a LPS. Any recommendations?

Do I need a Pi2AES (BNC)? Is the USB not sufficient?


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## Mtavares_12 (Sunday at 1:36 PM)

ScrapIron said:


> Do I need a Pi2AES (BNC)? Is the USB not sufficient?


I consider that is better to start with the RPi4 USB option at this stage. Based on all information that I read, the Gungnir USB Unison is a significant upgrade over the Gen5 that I have.

In the future consider a 5V Linear Power Supply to feed the RPi4. I have used the following one in the past, terminated with an USB-C connector.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804461813213.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.23.d94a5ecf430xl2&algo_pvid=9a8e3d0d-6576-4409-aa4c-2da2d7375e40&algo_exp_id=9a8e3d0d-6576-4409-aa4c-2da2d7375e40-11&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000029971643032"}&pdp_npi=2@dis!BRL!563.59!563.59!!!!!@21021aa216731278137392680d0701!12000029971643032!sea&curPageLogUid=bM9xL4pcRzI6&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US

Verify if they can supply the power cable terminated with a USB-C connector. If you need a high quality one you can buy one at genthaudio.

*Edited: The correct link for this power supply DC connector is the following below (select Oyaide DC 2.5G):*
https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc29.html

Regards,

QJA

Marcos


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## ScrapIron

Good- I’ll start with USB. I will also look at a linear lower supply. Just gotta pay the premium on an RPI 4. 🥲


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## twigfarm

ScrapIron said:


> Thanks Marco- just the info to help me get started!
> 
> Appreciate the suggestions of alternates- but that’s outside what I want to spend. Agree on getting a LPS. Any recommendations?
> 
> Do I need a Pi2AES (BNC)? Is the USB not sufficient?


You might check out Swagman Labs for an LPS :http://www.swagmanlab.com/Linear-Power-Supplies

Very highly regarded power supplies. Using one for my W4S reclocker.


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## Mtavares_12

ScrapIron said:


> Good- I’ll start with USB. I will also look at a linear lower supply. Just gotta pay the premium on an RPI 4. 🥲


@ScrapIron 

The use of a Linear Power Supply even for the RPi 4 will improve the audio quality even further. In case you move for the PI2AES LITE later, you will use the same LPS.

I did a mistake related to the ghentaudio DC connector cable. I corrected it in the original message also. Forgive me.
https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc29.html

QJA

Marcos


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## ScrapIron

I have a RPI 4b with Allo DigiOne HAT and iFi Power supply on the way. Will look for a LPS in the future.

I’ll begin with USB then see if BNC is any different/better/worse.


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## Mtavares_12

@ScrapIron 
Nice move. Allo is a good choice also.
Keep us informed of your findings.
QJA
Marcos


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## Balthazar B (Yesterday at 8:52 AM)

Mtavares_12 said:


> @ScrapIron
> I am observing that you are experiencing a similar situation when I started to use a streamer in my system. I would like to share the steps of my journey with you.
> 
> 1) Rpi4 (USB) + Low profile cooler: https://geekworm.com/products/raspb...e-compatible-with-raspberry-pi-4-model-b-only
> ...



An excellent and less expensive alternative to a Pi-based streamer is the WiiM Pro. I liked my first one so much I got a second. One is hooked up to my Gungnir via coax and works with it exquisitely. The other is connected via Toslink to a set of Vanatoo speakers. Things I like:

Bit-perfect rendering of lossless and high-res Qobuz, Tidal, Amazon UHD via AlexaCast (as well as lossless Internet radio feeds).
Good mobile app. While not yet perfect, it's being improved relentlessly.
Support for Chromecast protocol.
API for integration into home automation, web interface, etc.
Multiroom capability.
Wish list:

USB output. Current model has S/PDIF via digital coax and Toslink.
Not so much on WiiM as on Apple. Despite WiiM support for ALAC and Airplay 2, I wish Apple would enable direct streaming (Tidal- or Spotify-Connect style) directly from their service.
I think WiiM is close to making the Pro Roon-ready and improving MQA support, but neither of those are factors for me.


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