# The Woo Audio 2



## JayG

I received my WA2 today, and I've had a blast setting her up and having a preliminary listen. I know I have promised a lot of pictures/impressions/tube rolling results etc., so please be patient. All of that will be forthcoming. You can probably expect some daytime shots tomorrow, including the high-res interior pics so many of you have asked for. Let's see if we can figure out what they changed in the power supply. I will post some reasonably detailed first listening impressions tomorrow, as well, but for now, I will just say that she sounds fantastic. And man is she a beauty... None of the pics I've seen online so far come close to doing justice to this industrial artwork, but I will do my best to fix that.

 So as not to completely disappoint you guys, I will throw a little teaser your way. Here's one shot of the beautiful glow - which is a comforting sight just a few feet from the window and the below-zero temperature (with wind chill) outside.







*UPDATE - 1/17/09 : Photoshoot*

 I had a chance this morning to do a photoshoot. I have glamour shots and photos of the guts, so I hope I have lived up to what I promised. Let me know if you have any more specific photo requests, and I will hook you up whenever I can get some time. Without further ado, the glamour shots!





























































 These still don't do justice to what it looks like in real life, but I think they'll give you a better idea than anything else out there. The black is just awesome looking, and even though it is hard to capture in photos, I would highly recommend it. I haven't seen the silver in person, but something tells me I would still prefer the black.

 And now, for all you DIYers, modders, and solder-savvy types, here are the internals. I hope I've provided enough angles, but if you need close-ups or anything else, let me know. I would love to hear from you guys what exactly was changed with the most recent power-supply revision. It sure is neat and tidy, and it certainly looks well done. These guys definitely care about their work.































 That's all for now. The pics took a long time, so I didn't get a chance to type up any listening impressions yet. Soon, though. I also haven't rolled any tubes yet. I have some good ones waiting, but I want to get familiar with the stock ones first. More to come soon.

*UPDATE - 1/23/09 : Listening Impressions*

 After getting some more time to listen to the amp, I can share my first coherent impressions of the sound. Keep in mind, these all refer to the amp with stock tubes and limited burn-in. First, a few general characteristics of the sound signature.

 First of all, with the WA2, you get the music and nothing else. The sounds rises up from a completely black background - something that makes more of a difference than you would think. With both the GS1000s and HD650s, I can turn the volume to max with no music playing and hear absolute silence. Extremely quiet passages are breathtaking with this amp - but make sure you don't have ambient noise if you're using open phones. A computer fan, heat/AC unit etc. can become noticeable and annoying when using an amplifier with such a low noise floor.

 One of the great strengths of this amp is dynamic range. It seems to have massive power reserves, and it really does justice to recordings with very wide dynamic swings (think well-recorded large scale orchestral music, string quartet, opera etc.). If you own this amp, you owe it to yourself to put on such a recording with the lights off and listen to how well it handles transitions from whisper-quiet muted strings to thunderous orchestral tutti passages. In my opinion, authoritative dynamic range is one of the most important criteria in making recorded music sound realistic and also one of the most difficult to achieve (not least because the current recording industry actively ruins and removes any dynamic range that was originally present in many recordings).

 For those of you wondering about whether this is a "warm" amp or not, or how detailed it is etc., here is what I would say so far. Compared to most solid-state amplification I have heard (which does not include any super high-end stuff), I would say that your first instinct would be to say that it is a little warmer. However, after spending some time listening specifically for this characteristic, I am confident in being able to say that I notice very little, if any, low-midrange emphasis or "tubey" rolled-off highs and lows. The extension is fantastic in both directions with this amp, and I do not notice any lack of detail in the treble. I think the main difference is that the WA2 has a superb ability to render harmonics and acoustics. I feel like I hear more of the overtones of acoustical instruments, which produces a richer sound, but more importantly, they sound more like the same instruments sound in real life in a real space. Each instrument's unique timbre is a result of its overtone series, and the WA2 does an exceptional job delivering all of those overtones in addition to the fundamental. In fact, tone and texture might be one of the first things to impress you after powering up the amp for the first time. People often complain about "one-note bass" when they are not happy with the low-frequency performance of a source, amp, or transducer. Well, that is caused by a lack of ability to produce the harmonic information we have been talking about, leading to all bass instruments sounding indistinguishable in tone. The WA2 is like the polar opposition of "one-note bass" throughout the whole frequency spectrum. Tone and texture are probably its greatest strength among its many strengths, and I am very hard to impress in this area. It is the one criterion which I simply must be satisfied with if I am to like a piece of equipment, and the WA2 has provided more of an improvement in this area than any other addition to my system (not counting transducers, which obviously change the overall sound more than anything else by nature).

 Another closely related strength of the WA2 is its ability to transmit the acoustical surroundings in which the recording was made. Live recordings sound live, with the particular sound of the venue clearly present. I have been noticing all kinds of acoustical cues in recordings that I hadn't heard before, and again, this is one of the most important aspects of making a recording sound realistic. I can hear if a hall is over-resonant in the bass because I can hear the faint rumbling vibration hanging over longer than the reverb from higher-pitched instruments. I can hear if it's a very dry venue in the emphasis on the fundamental tones and lack of bloom in plucked notes. Small things, certainly, but they make a big difference.

 I have been impressed with the amp's ability to layer music and created a terraced presentation rather than a muddled mass of sound. Orchestras are full-sounding as they should be, but each section is clearly separated from one another. Chamber musicians play in concert with one another, not on top of one another. In busy electronic mixes with electric guitar, drums, synths, computer loops etc., it is very easy for it to all just mash together and make a muddled mess. And I'm not saying the WA2 can rescue a recording from this if the engineers screwed it up in the studio because it can't. But with good recordings, the WA2 will give you all the various sounds in their proper place. This is a characteristic difficult to describe in words, but other WA2 owners probably know what I am talking about. Just listen to Radiohead, the Decemberists, Broken Social Scene, the Stars, or anything else that is densely layered, and you will hear it.

 The only thing I've heard that I might consider a minor weakness so far is that on some recordings, the bass could be a bit tighter. On most recordings it's perfect, but every once in a while I wish for just a bit less bloom in the lowest frequencies - mostly with electric bass. I have had no complaints with bass in acoustic music (in fact it's been excellent), so I have a feeling that the fault is more with the recordings, but I think the amp could do a tad better controlling it. Something tells me the 5998s I have sitting here will make any reservations on these few recordings go away.

 I hope that gives you an idea of how I perceive the overall sound signature of the WA2. This is not an amp that has an obvious, immediately-identifiable trademark sound that you will either love or hate right away. If you have competent amplification already, you probably wouldn't fire up the WA2 and immediately shocked by the difference in sound, and you probably wouldn't want to be. Amps should not be drastically altering the frequency response of your system. I think people on this forum build up far too much anticipation for people buying their first high-end headphone amp. If your headphones are getting a sufficient amount of power from the amp you already have, a high-end amp is not going to make you want to throw the old one out the window cursing it for all the music it has been withholding. The things that make it worth the expense and the designers time and effort are these subtle details that, over time, make the listening experience more fulfilling. Put on a demonstration disc and switch back and forth every 10 seconds listening for tiny differences and you might be disappointed. Spin up your favorite disc and listen to it all the way through on the WA2 and then again on your lesser amp, and you'll never question your purchase.

*Headphone Pairing Impressions*

 Now a little about how the amp pairs with my headphones.

 GS1000 - As I said earlier, I have never experienced an audio component so dependent on the rest of the system as the GS1000s. With inadequate, or even unsympathetic, components, these headphones are basically unlistenable. Even though I love them for a lot of music and they can do some things no other headphone I have heard can do, I still consider this a flaw in their design. Luckily for me, I believe the WA2 matches them as well as anything ever will. It has tons of power, which results in a significant boost to midrange bloom as well as bass control. Also, the amp has very extended but also extremely smooth highs, so while that GS1000 treble spike is still there, it is far less offensive. This allows the strengths of the phones to shine through. The bass is simply phenomenal - full but not slow, extremely textured, deep, and supremely musical. The mids show off the GS1000s near-perfect tonality, which I think is the real defining characteristic of these headphones. Instruments simply sound like they should - like they sound in real life. The brain has an amazing ability to adjust to deviations in what it expects to hear, so if I listen to a string quartet for 45 minutes on my HD650s, I don't really notice all that much that the instruments sound a little off compared to reality... until I switch to the GS1000s. How are the highs? Well, they're very present and a little aggressive right at the spot where they have the spike. There's no getting around that with these headphones. But they're tonally accurate, detailed, textured, and a lot more natural sounding than they are with any other equipment I've tried the GS1000s with, and it's hard to be bothered by them when everything else sounds so amazing. I still prefer the HD650s with most rock music and poorly recorded material, but the WA2 and the GS1000s are a wonderful combo.

 HD650 - The Senns respond very well to such a powerful amp able to provide the huge voltage swings needed for a 300-ohm headphone. Everything is tighter and more authoritative, and the overall sound is more coherent. Highs are clearer and more detailed if not more present decibel-wise, and the smoothness of the phones is emphasized. These headphones are very versatile and certainly far less picky than the Grados, but they still reward the investment in great amplification. It's much more difficult to isolate one or two major changes in sound. They basically retain all of the same characteristics that they already had, but they just do everything better. Deeper, tighter bass. More textured mids. More extended, detailed highs. Deeper layering. Better dynamics. You name it.

 HD800 - This combo is simply the greatest hea... Nope, just kidding. I'll have to let you know how they like each other in a month or so. Maybe they will combine all the strengths of the GS1000s and the HD650s and I won't ever have to choose between them again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*UPDATE - 1/24/09 : Tube-Rolling Impressions*

 I have now rolled in all of the tubes I have, which in addition to the stock consist of Tung-Sol 5998s, Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s, and Amperex Treble Clef 6V4s. Each of them had a positive effect on the sound, and I will do my best to share what I found to be different. I rolled them one at a time in the order listed in order to try to isolate the changes made by each set of tubes. However, I did not switch back to stock tubes in each spot other than the one I was trying, so for example once I put in the 5998s, they stayed in the whole time. So I don't have any impressions on the new 6DJ8s combined with the stock power tubes or the new 6V4s combined with any of the stock tubes. Hopefully that makes sense.

 Tung-Sol 5998s - These tubes are all about muscle. This is already a muscle-bound amp, but there is a definite sense of increased power with these tubes. The bass is more impactful and damped, and the overall sound has more weight to it. Think of the feeling you get with a nice full-range speaker system that really lets you feel the sound as well as hear it. The 5998s impart some of that feeling to headphones, though obviously on a much smaller scale and only on your ears rather than your whole body. I don't feel like these tubes change the sound profile of the amp much at all. I don't notice any difference in frequency response or newly emphasized areas of the sound spectrum. They simply take the signature of the amp and make it a little more ballsy. I would say it's pretty similar to what happens when you keep an amp circuit the same but improve the power supply - more juice, firmer grip, better extension, better dynamic range, more palpable sound. In fact, that's a good descriptor for these tubes in the WA2 - they significantly improve the palpability of the music.

 Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s - Now, from what I've read, most people feel like the power tubes (the 6AS7G/5998s) should and do make the most difference on the sound of this amp. I respectfully disagree. With the tubes I've tried so far, changing the 6DJ8s definitely made the most difference. Now I don't know if this is because the stock drive tubes are worse than the stock power tubes, or if it just reflects my personal bias towards the characteristics improved by the drive tubes, but to me this was the money spot right here. As I said in my listening impressions, the greatest strength of this amp might be its ability to accurately reproduce tone and texture. Changing to the Bugle Boys took that strength and made it even more obvious. The texture of sound with these tubes in the WA2 is breathtaking. The music just sounds so natural, so realistic. Harmonic detail, the transition of the initial strike of a note to the reverberation of that note within the instrument and then the performance space - these things immediately draw your attention and make you say, "Yes! That is exactly what it should sound like!" Listening to extremely well recorded acoustic music on this amp is so much fun that it must be illegal in the South. I think I will spend the most effort hunting down other tubes to roll in these spots - I can't wait to get my hands on some Siemens 7308s or Amperex PQs. In my own humble opinion, this is the first tube you should roll if you get this amp, and there are tons of choices, many of which are affordable and well-regarded.

 Amperex Treble Clef 6V4s - The strength of these tubes is resolution. The first thing I noticed when I rolled them in was their superior ability to transmit low-level detail. Inner voices in orchestral pieces, breath-sounds of singers, the sound of resin-on-string in chamber music - these were all things that became more clear with the new rectifiers. If you have done any photography, you will know what I mean when I say there are pictures that are in focus, and then there are pictures that are IN FOCUS. These tubes are the musical equivalent to nailing that razor-sharp focus on a photograph. They really take advantage of and emphasize the amp's pitch black background, allowing tiny little bits of sound to rise up from nothingness. This is very noticeable with very very low-dynamic music where it is often so difficult to hear detailed textures. With these tubes, moments such as that become highlights of the piece/song/track. It's really something when you combine such low-level resolution with the WA2's tonal accuracy and dynamic range. Don't let anyone tell you rolling the rectifiers in the WA2 won't change anything. It might not leap out at you, but it's there. And it shouldn't be a surprise - look at the WA6. From all reports, the rectifier definitely makes the most difference on the sound, and that's an amp with the power and drive sections combined into one tube per channel.


 Keep checking this first post as the thread progresses because I will just come back and add to it for the most part. Let me know if you have any specific questions or picture requests, and I will do my best to oblige. This has been an under-discussed amp, and I would love to help change that.

 Thanks again to Jack and family for great service both before and after purchase as well as a truthful timetable and secure packaging. My experience with them could not have been better, and if customer service is important to you, I can't recommend Woo highly enough.

 Stay tuned.


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## atbglenn

Nice tube glow. I cant wait to see some high rez internal shots. If you don't mind, take a picture of the rear panel as well.


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## Drag0n

I HATE YOU!!!! 
 May the fleas of 1000 camels infest in your hairy armpits!!!

 ( Its just jealousy, i want a Wa2 dammit!!! ) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My fav amp right now. Fine,enjoy your freekin amp already!!!


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## apatN

I love pictures of glowing tubes.


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## Gvvt

It is remarkably good looking, in ways that really stand out in person. I think it has to do with the perfect scale and proportions of the thing.

 And it is a comfort on these frigid nights. 

 The sound seems to get better minute by minute. I've never been so bowled over by a piece of equipment; it's really opening up my ears.


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## Brighten

How does it sound with your Grados?

 Nice pictures too...


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## Lil' Knight

The case looks awesome!


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## atbglenn

Nice internal shots! Thanks


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## JayG

I don't want to say too much yet about the sound since I have only had a few hours listening time so far - but in a word, the amp is excellent with the Grados. From the headphone out of my laptop, the Grados are nearly unlistenable. From the jack on the Benchmark, they are very good phones with some problems that keep them from succeeding with some recordings. From the WA2, they are outstanding. They sound like what you would expect Grado flagships to sound like.

 No, if you hate their sound signature, the WA2 won't convince you that they're great phones. But don't doubt for a second what they say about them being extremely source/amp dependent. In fact, I've never heard an audio component so dependent on the rest of the system as the GS1000s. But man, with the right gear, they are damn impressive. They'll never be the best choice for people who just want one pair of phones, and I readily admit that they have their flaws, but none of that seems to bother me when they're on my head...

 EDIT: And also, this is with a grand total of about 5 hours on the amp and with the stock tubes. Let's just say I have big expectations for when I start rolling the tubes and the Blackgates start settling in.


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## Brighten

Great, thanks!


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## atbglenn

How warm does the chassis get? BTW, The wiring in your unit looks so much better than the one on Woo's website.


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## apatN

You have one great amp! Enjoy!


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## paara

That is a beautiful amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If it sound as good as it looks, you probably gonne be happy


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## atbglenn

I'm totally jealous! I want one in the worst way


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## The Pieman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How warm does the chassis get? BTW, The wiring in your unit looks so much better than the one on Woo's website. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The chassis on the WA2 does not get overly warm. In fact no part of the amp does, tubes excepted. A bonus as far as I am concerned.

 I agree about the GS1K. The WA2 and GS1K go well together. Some say asthe WA2 is OTL it won't have enough power for the GS1000, wrong. It has plenty.

 cheers
 Simon


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Pieman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The chassis on the WA2 does not get overly warm. In fact no part of the amp does, tubes excepted. A bonus as far as I am concerned.

 I agree about the GS1K. The WA2 and GS1K go well together. Some say asthe WA2 is OTL it won't have enough power for the GS1000, wrong. It has plenty.

 cheers
 Simon_

 

I would imagine that it has gobs of power considering it's basically dual mono. Two paralleled output tubes, two chokes, and two rectifiers. What a nice amp!


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## JayG

The Pieman's experience mirrors mine. I've had it on for about 4 hours straight, and while the chassis gets warm, it does not get overly hot at all. The tubes are hot, of course, but even they are not as hot as I expected them to be. I have no idea what the reviewer on cNet was talking about when he said the whole amp got crazy hot. I mean, maybe it has something to do with my room being like 50 degrees with the weather, but even with a warmer room temp., I can't imagine the chassis getting all that hot.

 And yes, the WA2 shows the GS1000s who's boss, no doubt. The volume knob does have to be a little higher with the GS1000s than the HD650s, but we're talking like 10 o'clock instead of 9 o'clock. There's plenty more left in the tank after that.


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## Drag0n

I think those are the stock tubes?
 But i see black gates in there, so is that the modded version, or no?


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## mmwwhats

That has to be the modded version, because the black-gates alone used in that amp retail for about $330... exactly how much Jack charges for the upgrade.

 Looking forward to hearing more impressions, and to receiving my WA2 amp, which should ship this week. I also have some RCA 6AS7G black-base coming to use for rolling... let's hope this amp gives me the sound I'm looking for.


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## Gvvt

Sorry if I overstated the toasty-glow aspect. My listening (all-tubes) is done in a small room in a 150+ year old house in Vermont. Anything warmer than the outside temperature - 20 below at times last week - is welcome. It's warm to the touch in a pleasant way.

 I think I'm hearing a significant improvement in highs after about 30 minutes each session (still probably less than 20 hours total).

 Rich detailed sound, big clear soundstage. Terrific amp.


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## JayG

Yes, my amp has the full upgrades minus the stepped attenuator. As of now, I still have the stock tubes in. However, I have Tung-Sol 5998s, Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s and Amperex Holland Treble Clef 6V4s ready to roll. I am waiting to get very familiar with the stock tubes before I do any rolling. Eventually I will purchase some other 6DJ8/6922/7308/E18CC etc to try, most likely Siemens first. I'll probably wait quite a while to get anymore 6AS7Gs since the 5998s are pretty much universally regarded as the best. If I find that the Amperex 6V4s make a significant improvement, I might try out some other EZ80s as well. Hopefully we'll be able to get a good tube-rolling discussion going with all these new WA2 owners.

 I'm hoping to get some listening time later tonight, so maybe I'll have a few tidbits about specific aspects of the sound to post.

 I'm hoping Jamato or Takezo or one of the other EE types around here will get a chance to check out the internal pics soon and see if they can inform us about what's been changed in the power supply. I don't have an older model to compare, but I can say for a fact that my amp has tons of power. I can't imagine any headphones it couldn't handle other than the K1000.


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## LeMat

I'm also about to place an order for this beautiful amp (congrat JayG ! nice beast you have now !), just waiting for the exchange rate to be more favorable for the canadian dollar... Anyway, I'm still wondering whether I should get the black gate modded version (or part of it), or get some better tubes (as the ones owned by JayG). According to you guys, which one would make the best value for money ? Unfortenately, I have to make a choice... 
 tx


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## shellylh

Sweet!


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## JayG

Purely from hearsay, I would think the tubes would make a bigger difference. I will let you know how big a difference they make soon, but unfortunately can't compare that to how much difference the mods make. However, you might ask Jack how much it would cost to get better coupling caps only. Those sit squarely in the signal path at the end of the circuit (if I understand correctly), and can have as big an effect on the sound as the output transformer does in transformer-coupled amps (which is a lot). And also, it would be easier to spend the money for upgrades now and buy tubes later than it would be to upgrade the tubes and then have to send the amp back later if you decided you wanted the upgrades. Also, as Jamato has said a few times in other threads, there are some caps you could request to be put in that are much less expensive than Black Gates but still a significant improvement from stock.

 I can tell you that, regardless of how much better the amp will sound once I start tube rolling, the stock tubes still sound great.


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## xenithon

JayG - I have rolled in some 5998's and and Philips Miniwatt (Amperex made) E88CC gold pins. The next step is the rectifier - if I may ask, where did you come upon the Amperex Holland 6V4's?


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## booboohihi

That is a beautiful amp how's the sound on your hd600????


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## LeMat

Thanks for your advice JayG, it seems wise indeed to focus first on getting caps upgrades instead of tubes. Jack is ok for upgrading only the coupling section so I'll go with that. I'll manage later to put my hand on some decent 5998's and 6DJ8.
 I'll still wait few days to see if the USD decide to lower then place my order (finally...can't tell how many time I changed my mind and how far I'm from my initial budget 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


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## Vandal

What a beautiful amp! Amazing looking and must sound like heaven, or pretty darn near it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW how much was the total damage? You chose upgrades too?

 And tube amps do get hotter in warmer climes. My temperature in-room gets to 32 deg Celcius in summer; no a/c (Mumbai, India). Even with little tubes the LD micro tube gets freakin hot; even the chassis although not the bottom portion of it. Ambient temps matter a lot. I've checked this even with my PC.


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## HeatFan12

JayG

 Took delivery of the WA2 a couple of hours ago and all I can say right out of the box is SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET. 
 The stock tubes are staying in for a bit. Like you advised earlier in the thread, I also want to get used to the sound with the stock tubes first then a rolling we will go.

 I also ordered the premium parts upgrade package except for the SA. As previously stated, the amp is a thing of beauty and built like a tank. Attention to detail in every way. 


 Want to add that dealing with Jack has been a pleasure. Quick reply to emails and every question answered in detail. He advised four weeks and I received it with a day to spare....Excellent service......


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## CrazyRay




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## LeMat

CrazyRay, don't you own a WA6 SE also ?? I'm so curious to read your comparison between these 2 amazing Woo amps ! especialy as i'm very close to press the buy button for the WA2....


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## CrazyRay

Hello LeMat!
 I wish I had both.
 But I only have the WA6 SE.


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## LeMat

Sorry for the misunderstanding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I kind of mixed up things... that's what happen when you're doing 3 things at a time


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## mmwwhats

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeMat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_CrazyRay, don't you own a WA6 SE also ?? I'm so curious to read your comparison between these 2 amazing Woo amps ! especialy as i'm very close to press the buy button for the WA2...._

 

I owned a WA6 SE for a while. It's since been sold, but I am supposed to be receiving my WA2 next week. I can give you a quick broad strokes comparo (since it's based on memory of course, but I have a good grasp of the WA6 SE sound).


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## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmwwhats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I owned a WA6 SE for a while. It's since been sold, but I am supposed to be receiving my WA2 next week. *I can give you a quick broad strokes comparo* (since it's based on memory of course, but I have a good grasp of the WA6 SE sound)._

 

That would be greatly appreciated!


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## LeMat

I second that ! 
 thanks


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## JayG

Sorry I've been MIA for a few days - been very busy at work and have done a lot of concert-going.

 As for the Amperex 6V4s, I found them on eBay. There were also some Siemens EZ80s that I wanted, but the seller had them as a batch of 5, and I didn't want to pay for 3 more than I need.

 As for the sound with my Senns (which are 650s, by the way, not 600s), it's fantastic. I am hoping to write up some listening impressions this afternoon, so stay tuned.

 I have been listening to my WA2 every chance I get, but unfortunately, that hasn't been a whole lot. Hopefully I will have some more free time in the next week or so.

 EDIT: mmwwhats - I await with anticipation your WA2/WA6SE comparative impressions.


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## JayG

Update: I edited the first post with some listening impressions. I would love to hear from some of the other WA2 owners about whether they agree or disagree and what other things they notice. Feel free to ask any questions you have about the sound and I will try to listen carefully to something appropriate to produce an answer.

 Also, I would love to hear some feedback on the internal pictures and how the circuit has been changed since the picture on the Woo website and since the most recent power supply revision. I didn't crack the thing open and take all those pics just for the thrill of it.


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## Skylab

VERY nice write-up. Thanks for doing it.

 No doubt that, if the Woo2 is like any other 6ASG-based amp, the 5998 will result in tighter bass. It will be interesting to hear your impressions on that.


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## atbglenn

JayG,

 Jack posted an internal picture of your amp on Woo's site. It's definitely yours. I compared the dust particles


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## paara

Thank you for the update, and I just have to say it again, incredible looking amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My wallet are getting more and more scared. Need to resist...


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## JayG

atbglenn - You're right, that's definitely my amp. There are also some new exterior pictures of the black model, and I assume those are my amp also. I am honored that it is the new model unit and that their interior work on it was deemed worthy of being their display model.

 paara - Be very, very afraid. And/or very, very satisfied once you drop the cash.


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## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JayG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_atbglenn - You're right, that's definitely my amp. There are also some new exterior pictures of the black model, and I assume those are my amp also. I am honored that it is the new model unit and that their interior work on it was deemed worthy of being their display model._

 

I think you're right about the external pictures being yours as well. The internal pictures show the true professionalism of Woo's wiring quality. Great stuff


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## JayG

Update - I added tube-rolling impressions to the first post. 

 Other WA2 owners, please, let's hear from you! Have you rolled tubes? Which ones? Do you agree with my impressions of the amp's and other tubes' sound? Do you think I'm off my rocker and hearing things? Let's get a discussion going!


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## xenithon

Very briefly....

_Now, from what I've read, most people feel like the power tubes (the 6AS7G/5998s) should and do make the most difference on the sound of this amp. I respectfully disagree._

 I concur. I was also surprised with this as Jack suggested the power tubes would make the most noticeable difference. I have not yet rolled the rectifier (have not managed to find any decent ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) but have rolled in Philips Miniwatt (Amperex Holland made) E88CC gold-pins and it really did make the music sweeter and smoother. 

 Not sure which to try next - some decent rectifiers (if I can find them) and was thinking about some Bugle Boy 6DJ8's, Mullard 6922's or Siemens E88CC's.


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## LeMat

Thanks a lot JayG for writing down your impressions in a such detailled fashion. 
 It clearly re-assured me that this amp is the one I need. I'll try to add comment when I'll receive mine but as english is not my mother tongue, I guess it will be a tricky exercise !
 Can't wait very much longer that the USD/CAD drops !!! arrghhhh


----------



## JayG

Xenithon,

 If you haven't rolled the power tubes yet, I would do that before rolling the rectifiers. Both have room for improvement, but I think if I had to choose one to leave stock, it would be the rectifiers. Of course, 5998s are more expensive than good EZ80s, so there is that to consider.

 Since you already have the Amp. Holland E88CCs, I think I'd try some other flavors of 6DJ8 before buying Bugle Boys. Depending on the vintage of your Miniwatts, they could be basically identical to gold pin Bugle Boys.


----------



## HeatFan12

Excellent impressions JayG.

 I have not started rolling tubes yet, as I want to get used to the stock tube sound first. In the next couple of days the rolling will begin. The only negative thing I read in your review is that rolling the 6DJ8/6922 makes a nice difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...The price on some of those is downright crazy sometimes. Where did I leave my wallet?......I have plenty of power tubes and a pair of Tungsram EZ80 on the way. 

 Great to hear the bass tightened up with the 5998s. Those will be my first to try.

 Thanks again. Great job.....


----------



## JayG

You're right, some of the 6DJ8 prices are crazy, but most of that, I suspect, is due to rarity more than night/day superiority to more reasonably priced options. Someday I will probably succumb and try one of the high priced ones that people rave about just to see if it's all true or not, but I'm here to tell you that you need not spend hundreds to get great-sounding 6DJ8s. I bought a quad of Bugle Boys, used but still very strong-testing and in great shape, for just over $50. Hopefully I will be able to compare them to some other options, both similarly priced and more expensive, but regardless of how they end up comparing, these Bugle Boys are outstanding tubes and only cost about $13 each.

 What power tubes do you have coming? I am anxious to hear how they are and also what you think of the Tungsram EZ80s. I believe those are very reasonably priced, no? If they are a nice upgrade, that would be a very good choice for someone who wants to get a little better performance without breaking the bank.

 I definitely suggest rolling the tubes as there are some very satisfying improvements to be found, but this exercise has also taught me that these stock tubes (and, I suspect, stock tubes in many other amps) are not nearly as poor as you would think from what some people around here would have you believe. Their performance is very good, and the amp is superb without any tube-rolling. Lucky for us, though, there is still room for improvement.


----------



## HeatFan12

A quad of BBs for 50.00 is a great price..Nice
 I have some RCA JAN CRC 6AS7G, GE 6AS7G, TS 5998 and 6H13Cs to try out.
 Yes, the Tungsram were about 9.00 each. If it's a nice upgrade that would be great at that price...

 As you stated, the important thing with the WA2 is that it sounds great with the stock tubes already, so tube rolling is a plus not a necessity.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Another Headfier interested in a WA6 vs WA2 review.


----------



## freakmax

I've tried several amps with my GS1K such as Earmax SE ,MAD Ear+ , Grado RA1 ,Graham Novo ,Lavry DA10 and LISA III.
 None of them goes well with the GS1K .

 I'm now satisfied with Grace m902+GS1000.
 The mid is more forward and the treble is not harsh anymore and the rest is almost perfect to my ears.
 Until I read this thread,I want to try WA2!
 I know I want tube amp.
 I'm saving up now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Once I have enough money,should I go for maxed wa2? 
 At that price ,the other amp in my mind is Zana Deux.
 Hard to make a decision.


----------



## xenithon

That is a really tough call, and I am not sure if anyone has heard both. That said, I am particularly fond of the large soundscape the WA2 provides; with a little warmth and body, and loads of musicality. My personal experience with the 6C33C tube is that it is very neutral, even somewhat cold, though very powerful. I have not heard the ZD though and of course a lot depends on implementation.


----------



## bobsmith

I just ordered a WA2 myself. Now just 3-4 weeks to wait. When I asked Jack about the differences between the WA6SE and the WA2, he said that they have a similar level of performance, but that the WA2 has a softer and warmer presentation.


----------



## mmwwhats

Got the 'your amp shipped' message from Jack. Should be here in a few days, and I have some RCA 6as7g, JAN 6as7g, and bugle boy 6dj8s to roll.


----------



## SmoothSound

Does anyone have experience using the WA2 as a pre-amp? Is it as good of a pre-amp as it is a headphone amp....will it compete with higher end pre-amps like Cary, Mcintosh etc. or more like mid-fi stuff like Jolida and ASL?


----------



## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmwwhats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got the 'your amp shipped' message from Jack. Should be here in a few days, and I have some RCA 6as7g, JAN 6as7g, and bugle boy 6dj8s to roll._

 

I anticipate your review!


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SmoothSound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have experience using the WA2 as a pre-amp? Is it as good of a pre-amp as it is a headphone amp....will it compete with higher end pre-amps like Cary, Mcintosh etc. or more like mid-fi stuff like Jolida and ASL?_

 

Another good question. Although I am leaning toward a passive preamp at the moment.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmwwhats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got the 'your amp shipped' message from Jack. Should be here in a few days, and I have some RCA 6as7g, JAN 6as7g, and bugle boy 6dj8s to roll._

 

I am also really looking forward to your impressions, even initial ones. I also would love to see some glamor shots, especially tube glowing in the dark ones. It makes waiting easier...


----------



## JayG

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SmoothSound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone have experience using the WA2 as a pre-amp? Is it as good of a pre-amp as it is a headphone amp....will it compete with higher end pre-amps like Cary, Mcintosh etc. or more like mid-fi stuff like Jolida and ASL?_

 

I wish that I could answer this for you, especially since that was one of the major considerations in choosing the WA2 over the WA6SE. Unfortunately, my current apartment is too small to accommodate my speaker rig, so it is in storage. Someday I will have it back up and running, and I can't wait to see how the WA2 does as a pre-amp. Jack, of course, said it is an outstanding pre-amp, but I am inclined to believe him judging by its performance with headphones.


----------



## mmwwhats

I got my WA2 in the mail today. It was left at my front door and as my wife walked in, she remarked, "um, it looks like you got something in the mail; there's a box here." Yeah, 'something'.. it's my amp babe. Anyway, the thing is beautiful. I haven't plugged it in as I'm on the way out, but expect some impressions soon. Mine is a stock unit, and I'll be using stock tubes to burn it in and get to know its character. After that, I'll start rolling.


----------



## IceClass

Anyone ever directly compared the WA2 to the WA5?


----------



## atbglenn

Can you take some internal pictures so we can compare it to JayG's maxed out WA2? 

 Thanks,

 Glenn


----------



## marsellus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you take some internal pictures so we can compare it to JayG's maxed out WA2? 

 Thanks,

 Glenn_

 

x2

 I would love to see it, too


----------



## LeMat

X3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Here I am, I've just placed an order for this WA2 with the blackgate output cap... !!! 
 now, I just have to wait ! I feel it will be long weeks !
 Damnit ! the very high USD has hurt me !


----------



## Shambla

Man, all these posers with their new WA2s - I was loving mine before they were cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously though, I would agree that it is a superb amp - mine continues to impress me well over a year after I bought it (though I think the Naim CD5i I got over the summer may have had something to do with that too). I would like to add too that mine continued to improve with use for a LOT longer than any other piece of electronics I have ever owned - dunno whether this was mainly down to the Blackgates burning in, the tubes or a combination of the two. 

 I know the OP was keen to hear from other WA2 owners, regarding their impressions of the sound of the amp. Despite the difference in headphones (I have HD600s and a pair of K701s), I would agree with pretty much all of what was said - the blackness of the background, the ability to separate instruments well (while still sounding cohesive) and the great dynamic range are all things that I love about the WA2. 

 I was very interested to see some more opinions of tube rolling - I am still running my original tubes, although I did add the Tung-Sol 5998s when I ordered the amp. I been wondering about getting either a pair of Amperex 6DJ8s or maybe some 7308s for a while now so it's nice to know that the gains are noticable. 

 In response to Smoothsound's question about using the WA2 as a preamp - I have used mine in my speaker setup, though only briefly using my Rotel RA-03 as a power amp and a pair of B&W 683 floorstanders. While I was certainly impressed, I have not had a chance to directly compare it to anything other than my pretty low end SS Rotel stuff and so I can't really tell you how it stacks up against any of the brands listed


----------



## mmwwhats

Been listening to the amp for a bit since I got it, but I'm going to hold off on official impressions. Although, the amp has some spectacular qualities, I'm getting an annoying bump in frequency in the 1K-3K range, and that annoyance is rendering the music quite unenjoyable. This could be due to a need for burn-in, a lack of synergy between components (K701s and MHDT Paradisea+) or both. It also could be inherent to the amp. I've tried an equalizer (on the pc) that helps some, but not completely, besides I don't want to have to use an EQ. Until I isolate the problem and hopefully ameliorate it, I'm going to hold off on a review. I did check the internals, just to see, and they look exactly like the BG modified internals... other than the fact that the caps aren't BGs of course.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmwwhats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been listening to the amp for a bit since I got it, but I'm going to hold off on official impressions. Although, the amp has some spectacular qualities, I'm getting an annoying bump in frequency in the 1K-3K range, and that annoyance is rendering the music quite unenjoyable. This could be due to a need for burn-in, a lack of synergy between components (K701s and MHDT Paradisea+) or both. It also could be inherent to the amp. I've tried an equalizer (on the pc) that helps some, but not completely, besides I don't want to have to use an EQ. Until I isolate the problem and hopefully ameliorate it, I'm going to hold off on a review. I did check the internals, just to see, and they look exactly like the BG modified internals... other than the fact that the caps aren't BGs of course._

 

That doesn't sound right. Maybe worth contacting Jack and seeing if he has any thoughts?


----------



## atbglenn

The tubes probably need to settle in a bit.


----------



## rwbadley

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmwwhats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been listening to the amp for a bit since I got it, but I'm going to hold off on official impressions. Although, the amp has some spectacular qualities, I'm getting an annoying bump in frequency in the 1K-3K range, and that annoyance is rendering the music quite unenjoyable. This could be due to a need for burn-in, a lack of synergy between components (K701s and MHDT Paradisea+) or both. It also could be inherent to the amp. I've tried an equalizer (on the pc) that helps some, but not completely, besides I don't want to have to use an EQ. Until I isolate the problem and hopefully ameliorate it, I'm going to hold off on a review. I did check the internals, just to see, and they look exactly like the BG modified internals... other than the fact that the caps aren't BGs of course._

 

You may need to let the amp develop a bit. I've had the pleasure of running in several nice tube amps from new and it really does take time. A bit of tube rolling and about a year to really develop the relationship. I wouldn't part with either one of them now. Relax, it'll happen. You got a sweet amp

 cheers,

 RW


----------



## Shambla

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmwwhats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been listening to the amp for a bit since I got it, but I'm going to hold off on official impressions. Although, the amp has some spectacular qualities, I'm getting an annoying bump in frequency in the 1K-3K range, and that annoyance is rendering the music quite unenjoyable. This could be due to a need for burn-in, a lack of synergy between components (K701s and MHDT Paradisea+) or both_

 

Not noticed anything similar with K701s on my WA2, but I did buy them quite some time after the amp, by which point everything would have been nicely settled down. Like others have said, I'd give it a bit of time and see if it changes.


----------



## ciphercomplete

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmwwhats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Although, the amp has some spectacular qualities, I'm getting an annoying bump in frequency in the 1K-3K range, and that annoyance is rendering the music quite unenjoyable._

 


 I am pretty sure that the WA2 uses 6DJ8 tubes right. If your stock tubes are the JAN Phillips then that 1K-3K bump is not going to go away. I had the same problem with these in my tube DAC. They have some good qualities but the top of the midrange just sucks IMO. 

 Get a pair of JJ Teslas. They run about $20 for a set. The Teslas are more laid back and sweet sounding which I am assuming (based on your choice of gear) is more your style. Also, I have read that the JAN Sylvania 6922 are the JAN Phillips without the annoying 1k-3k bump. I haven't tried them out for myself but if you otherwise really like the JAN Phillips they might be worth a shot.

 If you end up getting the Teslas I will be really interested in hearing your impressions after burn-in. It sounds like we have similar tastes and I have been thinking about getting either a WA2 or a WA6 for quite sometime now.


----------



## mmwwhats

So, after an op-amp switch here and a tube roll there... and some pixie dust, I've managed to mostly get rid of the 1-3K Hz bump. Additionally the amp continues to improve with burn-in. Interestingly, it seems there's more improvement each time I turn on the amp after cool down than there is listening after a burn-in session. Either way, the magic is beginning to shine through. As it is now, it's a wonderful amp, but there are areas I wish would improve. But again, the amp continues to improve, and with some tube hunting and rolling I imagine this amp could be "the one." I'll write up some formal impressions once it no longer continues to improve with burn-in and once I've settled on a satisfactory set of tubes.


----------



## bobsmith

Excellent, that's what I wanted to hear given that my WA2 is on its way. Out of curiosity, what tubes have you had the most luck with so far?


----------



## mmwwhats

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Excellent, that's what I wanted to hear given that my WA2 is on its way. Out of curiosity, what tubes have you had the most luck with so far?_

 

My "it" tube is definitely the Amperex 6dj8 Orange Globe Holland made; it's a very very smooth sounding tube. I like the stock power tubes, but I'm still looking for that special power tube. I'll take any recommendations on 6AS7s, 6080s, or anything else that would work and give a smooth sound.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmwwhats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My "it" tube is definitely the Amperex 6dj8 Orange Globe Holland made; it's a very very smooth sounding tube. I like the stock power tubes, but I'm still looking for that special power tube. I'll take any recommendations on 6AS7s, 6080s, or anything else that would work and give a smooth sound._

 

Tung Sol 5998 for the 6AS7 spot, or JAN CRC RCA 6AS7G.


----------



## Gvvt

I agree with HeadphoneAddict. The Tung-Sol 5998 is TERRIFIC. Far more engaging than the GE 6AS&GAs that came stock. 

 I'm using a pair of Japanese Amperex 6DJ8s that are very nice, and was impressed, as Jamato8 suggested somewhere, with a pair of bogus Russian Amperex 6DJ8s I found recently.


----------



## raffy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mmwwhats* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My "it" tube is definitely the Amperex 6dj8 Orange Globe Holland made; it's a very very smooth sounding tube. I like the stock power tubes, but I'm still looking for that special power tube. I'll take any recommendations on 6AS7s, 6080s, or anything else that would work and give a smooth sound._

 

As for 6080 or equivalent, I would like to recommend the Tungsol 7236 and the Bendix 6080. The 7236 is a computer-rated 5998 (whatever that means) and is fast and detailed with nice vocals. The Bendix 6080 is smoother and more laid-back. Personally, I like the 7236 in my Extreme.


----------



## xenithon

Quote:


 ...Bendix 6080... 
 

I recently tried some 6080's and their base was too wide to fit in the WA2. From images I have seen, the Bendix would have the same issue.


----------



## raffy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I recently tried some 6080's and their base was too wide to fit in the WA2. From images I have seen, the Bendix would have the same issue._

 

Crap, I forgot about that issue with the WA2. Aside from installing a socket saver, is there any way Jack can modify the chassis or opening to accomodate the bigger based 6080?


----------



## atbglenn

Those top plates are CNC machined probably off site. You wouldn't want someone taking a dremmel to it to make the opening larger. That would hurt!


----------



## LeMat

I admit I'm just a newbie when it comes to "tubes hunting" but I didn't found yet these Tung-Sol 5998 which seem highly acclaimed for the WA2. Any online shops you would recommend ? thanks

 Edit : I've just noticed there is a dedicated thread to tubes store... I'll dig into it ! Seems to be what I need


----------



## bobsmith

I picked up a very nice NOS matched pair of 5998s from www.tubeworld.com, but I am sure I paid too much. Now I am hunting for some nice but cheap 6dj8s on ebay, but I keep losing. Still have weeks to go before I get the WA2, so I am sure something will turn up. Am I correct in my understanding that it is less important that the drive tubes be matched pairs than the power tubes?


----------



## Diesp

Damn, I shouldn't have read that topic... The amp seems as good as it looks !


----------



## The Pieman

All this WA2 love is just overwhelming... or .... I could say about bloody time. I suppose some are just a bit slower to catch on than others.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cheers
 Simon


----------



## parn256

Is this amp match for Rock music?


----------



## David_N

One of the best reviews I've ever read! I think you single-handedly swayed me over from a WA6SE to this!

 I have a few questions for anyone who has this amp or can offer an advice.

 1) How will my SR-225's go with this until I can get my GS1000's? This might be close to 8 months, I still need a good DAC too!

 2) Is it worth getting the stepped attenuator? I'm still not exactly sure what it does other than something to do with volume adjustment...

 3) Would I be better off with a WA6SE? How about a stock WA4? My music taste is largely ambient, indie and rock if that matters. Also, I don't have any plans to move away from Grado's for quite a while, so should the low impedence of them play a role in the decision?

 4) Why do some of the pictures on the WA site show the amp with two outputs and others with only one? What does the basic price get you?

 Oh, and if anyone can control the US dollar, feel free to sway that in my favor too!


----------



## Gvvt

Finding the tubes you read about here often seems to be a matter of luck and timing. And a LOT of nosing around on the Internet.

 About tubes that are too big: if they sit securely, even though they obviously aren't all the way in, they should be ok. I've had a couple in my WA2 and there was no problem.

 Jamato8 had a suggestion about this on a WA6 thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...5/index24.html

 Elsewhere in that thread he says that the attenuator makes some difference (again, in the WA6), but it's not huge. It is better quality, but the stock one isn't "bad" in any sense. I think part of the deal with stepped attenuators is that they "click" from setting to setting, so you can retain or get back to exactly the same volume level...

 Someone wrote somewhere about having Jack eliminate one of the two RCA outputs to clean up the signal path. You can also get the WA2 with no pre-amp function (no RCA outputs and whatever goes with them). Same price, some improvement in SQ, Jack said. I decided to keep the pre-amp section, although I don't know if I'll ever use it.

 I have Denon D2000s, which have an impedance of something like 25-30. I originally asked Jack about the 3 or 6, and he suggested the next step up, to the 2. I haven't heard the others, but I am ridiculously happy with the 2.

 Black is so cool looking. And it does pick up dust. But dust is the least of my problems.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David_N* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How will my SR-225's go with this until I can get my GS1000's?_

 

I have never heard either of these Woo amps, BUT, if you plan to use Grados, I think the WA6SE is the better choice, since it is transformer coupled and as such will do better with the very low impedance Grados. The WA2, while undoubtedly fantastic sounding, is an OTL (output transformerless) amp, and so is better, generally, for high impedance headphones. It may well sound great with the Grados, but it is still asking it to do something it isn;t really good at. At least on paper, the 6SE is the better Grado partner.


----------



## David_N

Thanks Skylab, that's what I was thinking. I guess I'll carry through with my plan to order the WA6SE/Sophia Rectifier, but I'm not sure whether or not I'll get the parts upgrade (I'd like to, but money is an issue...). I'm still not sure what the benefit of the attenuator is though!


----------



## Gradofan2

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have never heard either of these Woo amps, BUT, if you plan to use Grados, I think the WA6SE is the better choice, since it is transformer coupled and as such will do better with the very low impedance Grados. The WA2, while undoubtedly fantastic sounding, is an OTL (output transformerless) amp, and so is better, generally, for high impedance headphones. It may well sound great with the Grados, but it is still asking it to do something it isn;t really good at. At least on paper, the 6SE is the better Grado partner._

 

I guess I agree here... 

 I can tell you the WA6 SE does drive low impedance phones very well, as well as high impedance phones.

 I had the WA3 OTL amp... and it struggled with low impedance phones - clipping upper mids, and bass - producing a rough, harsh sound. 

 The WA2 is a somewhat similar OTL design, but has greater power output, and I think some chokes, which Woo Audio reports is better able to drive low impedance phones. And... there have been some reports by users, that it does drive low impedance phones OK... but... not as well as high impedance phones. 

 But... after considering both... in the end... I bought the WA6 SE for the reasons Skylab described... and... I'm very pleased with it with both high and low impedance phones.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David_N* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Skylab, that's what I was thinking. I guess I'll carry through with my plan to order the WA6SE/Sophia Rectifier, but I'm not sure whether or not I'll get the parts upgrade (I'd like to, but money is an issue...). I'm still not sure what the benefit of the attenuator is though!_

 

If you get the WA6SE with Sophia Princess 274b rectifier, you should be fine without the other upgrades and just the stock version. WA6SE already has a (pseudo) dual power supply, but if you get the regular WA6 you at least need to add the Pseudo Dual Power Supply mod and Sophia to it. Plus, you can always install a Goldpoint stepped attenuator yourself later for a small increase in transparency. 

 Upgrading the caps to maxed later is not something Woo wants to do, but Jamato8 did his own. I know I am not skilled enough to modify mine, so I went with a maxed WA6, but I had to send it back last May to get the new Pseudo Dual Power Supply mod. That cost $200 because it wasn't done with the original build and I needed the mod done with blackgate caps. Nevertheless, I heard a stock WA6 next to my maxed modded WA6 with Sophia and the stock WA6 was still quite good. Mine was slightly more refined with more expansive soundstage, and slightly better extension in the treble and bass, with a little more control over the bass in my D2000/7000 and Edition 9. The stock WA6SE with Sophia should perform pretty much as well as mine.


----------



## SmoothSound

I just ordered a maxed out WA2.... wait time according to Jack is 4 weeks for the silver 6 weeks for black...ouch.... good things come to those that wait...right. I went for the silver it will match up with my silver Rega CDP.


----------



## atbglenn

The silver looks great. Much better in person..


----------



## Gvvt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *atbglenn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The silver looks great. Much better in person.._

 

I have a feeling that all of the Woos look even better than the very good photos on their site or even here.

 There's something surprisingly "present" about them - and such perfect proportions.

 I got black to match my other stuff - silver must be amazing, too.

 You're going to love the 2 - it's a stunning piece of work.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SmoothSound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered a maxed out WA2.... wait time according to Jack is 4 weeks for the silver 6 weeks for black...ouch.... good things come to those that wait...right. I went for the silver it will match up with my silver Rega CDP._

 


 Congrats. You will love this amp.

 Finally had a chance to roll in some power tubes. First up- Tung Sol 6AS7Gs. The bass tightened up without losing its quantity, was the first thing I noticed. Soundstage, imaging improved a bit also. Overall sound has improved with a more airy presentation.

 This amp just gets better and better..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 In case anyone is wondering about low impedance phones with this amp--atm I'm listening to my AH-D5000 (Euphoria Vol. 1 'For The Mind, Body and Soul' CD1).
 It just sounds amazing. I like the Denons with SS amps, however, the WA2 seems to reel them in and control them. One small example- Song #1 "Looking For Love [Trouser Enthusiasts Joy of Sex Mix] - Karen Ramirez, always exhibits a bit of sibilance (not much) on these phones. With the WA2, I'm still looking for it and it is nowhere to be found.

 Next up Tung Sol 5998, Svets 6H13C....


----------



## Skylab

Nice pics! Tung-Sol 6AS7G's are VERY good sounding tubes. They can be a little elusive, but the ones I have definitely sound better than RCA's (which themselves do sound very good).


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice pics! Tung-Sol 6AS7G's are VERY good sounding tubes. They can be a little elusive, but the ones I have definitely sound better than RCA's (which themselves do sound very good)._

 


 Thank you sir...

 Absolutely...Every now and then they do turn up and they really are great sounding tubes...


----------



## ciphercomplete

I want one!


----------



## jp11801

I first heard the Woo 2 at the international meet in San Jose on 2007 and it rocked my world. This is probably one of the most under appreciated amps at Headfi.


----------



## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jp11801* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I first heard the Woo 2 at the international meet in San Jose on 2007 and it rocked my world. This is probably one of the most under appreciated amps at Headfi._

 

Have you heard any other Woo amps to compare it to?


----------



## auee

HeatFan12, great pictures. Your post gives me reason to believe that the amp can handle all phones but electrostatic phones. Thanks and it is very enjoyable to read all of your opinions about this amp and how it sounds with various tubes. Man, I want to play soon.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *auee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HeatFan12, great pictures. Your post gives me reason to believe that the amp can handle all phones but electrostatic phones. Thanks and it is very enjoyable to read all of your opinions about this amp and how it sounds with various tubes. Man, I want to play soon._

 


 Thanks auee. It is really a wonderful amp. After a good amount of listening, I went from the Denons to Beyer DT880s. The amp did not miss a beat. The DT880s kept their great detail with just the right amount of bass...Very involving...


----------



## ghostmusic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In case anyone is wondering about low impedance phones with this amp--atm I'm listening to my AH-D5000 (Euphoria Vol. 1 'For The Mind, Body and Soul' CD1).
 It just sounds amazing. I like the Denons with SS amps, however, the WA2 seems to reel them in and control them. One small example- Song #1 "Looking For Love [Trouser Enthusiasts Joy of Sex Mix] - Karen Ramirez, always exhibits a bit of sibilance (not much) on these phones. With the WA2, I'm still looking for it and it is nowhere to be found._

 

Chiming in to corroborate HeatFan12's claims. I tried the Lawton LA2000 with the new WA2 with PDSP & blackgates. I expected disaster because 1) markl warned me about trying 25 ohms with some tube amps 2) as skylab said, it's general knowledge that it's better to go with a transformer-coupled amp rather than OTL for low impedance. So I must say I was quite shocked at how well the WA2 & LA2000 mated. Very very shocked. The sound was authoritative in every register of the sound, and in addition to the agile and plentiful bass, you also got that guileless, silky OTL sound that just let you forget about the gear. It was awesome. I only got to play with LA2000 for like 3 days (sadly, they had to go to Sweden with their rightful owner, Struts, who has a great LA2000 review elsewhere in this forum.) But in a couple weeks, I should have LA7000 to try with the WA2 & I hope to do more extensive critical listening to verify my impressions.

 P.S. - which makes me wonder, how does Zana Deux handle the low-impedance phones? I should probably post in the Zana Deux thread or search, but as it is right now, I'm stealing a few minutes away from my work to post here...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ghostmusic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Chiming in to corroborate HeatFan12's claims. I tried the Lawton LA2000 with the new WA2 with PDSP & blackgates. I expected disaster because 1) markl warned me about trying 25 ohms with some tube amps 2) as skylab said, it's general knowledge that it's better to go with a transformer-coupled amp rather than OTL for low impedance. So I must say I was quite shocked at how well the WA2 & LA2000 mated. Very very shocked. The sound was authoritative in every register of the sound, and in addition to the agile and plentiful bass, you also got that guileless, silky OTL sound that just let you forget about the gear. It was awesome. I only got to play with LA2000 for like 3 days (sadly, they had to go to Sweden with their rightful owner, Struts, who has a great LA2000 review elsewhere in this forum.) But in a couple weeks, I should have LA7000 to try with the WA2 & I hope to do more extensive critical listening to verify my impressions.

 P.S. - which makes me wonder, how does Zana Deux handle the low-impedance phones? I should probably post in the Zana Deux thread or search, but as it is right now, I'm stealing a few minutes away from my work to post here..._

 

The Zana Deux (at Blutarskys) performs every bit as well as the WA6 maxed with PDPS and Sophia Princess with low impedance phones.


----------



## zer010gic

Just ordered my Woo Audio 2 with upgraded parts, DACT stepped attenuator, and extra set of preamp outs.


 Corey


----------



## SmoothSound

I ordered the same maxed out unit with extra pre-out in silver. Now I'm just looking for a set of Tung Sol 5998's.


----------



## auee

I am interested why you gents ordered with an extra pre-out. What is your intended use for two pre-outs? Thanks for the information.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SmoothSound* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered the same maxed out unit with extra pre-out in silver. Now I'm just looking for a set of Tung Sol 5998's._

 


 X has a pair for sale here http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f42/ic...ipping-408419/


----------



## xenithon

Didn't want to punt my ad - thanks _HeatFan12_


----------



## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Didn't want to punt my ad - thanks HeatFan12



_

 

Those guys are hard to find, your helping the community out selling the 5998s...


----------



## librarian

I started thinking, that Woo3/3+ would be an appropriate amp for me, since I'm new to headfi. Then, you know, I could get into it, and maybe upgrade later. But I figured, that the amp is the one thing, that I don't wanna compromise with. I only want to buy ONE. So I had a crush on the Woo6. But then I read a lot of reviews and stuff, and the upgrades that many think the Woo6 needs makes that amp almost as expensive as the Woo2. So I've set my eyes one the Woo2. After reading this thread, I wonder: When does it stop? 

 [size=medium][size=large]I recon you all are talking about the "maxxxed" or "upgraded" or "modified" version of Woo2!? What's wrong with the stock?[/size][/size]

 BTW: I'm gonna use the amp for HD650. Next upgrade will be the SAA Equinox cable. Later on I'm gonna try out AKG's K501. Need a new cartridge for my grammophone as well. And this whole cable-thing also needs an upgrade here and there... And the RIAA, that I got from NAD, probably sucks too... I've been a member on head-fi.org for a couple of weeks, and you bet, I'm getting sorry about my wallet!


----------



## zer010gic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *librarian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I started thinking, that Woo3/3+ would be an appropriate amp for me, since I'm new to headfi. Then, you know, I could get into it, and maybe upgrade later. But I figured, that the amp is the one thing, that I don't wanna compromise with. I only want to buy ONE. So I had a crush on the Woo6. But then I read a lot of reviews and stuff, and the upgrades that many think the Woo6 needs makes that amp almost as expensive as the Woo2. So I've set my eyes one the Woo2. After reading this thread, I wonder: When does it stop? 

 [size=medium][size=large]I recon you all are talking about the "maxxxed" or "upgraded" or "modified" version of Woo2!? What's wrong with the stock?[/size][/size]

 BTW: I'm gonna use the amp for HD650. Next upgrade will be the SAA Equinox cable. Later on I'm gonna try out AKG's K501. Need a new cartridge for my grammophone as well. And this whole cable-thing also needs an upgrade here and there... And the RIAA, that I got from NAD, probably sucks too... I've been a member on head-fi.org for a couple of weeks, and you bet, I'm getting sorry about my wallet!_

 


 Yeah thats a very common problem on Head-Fi we are your wallets worst enemy.


 Corey


----------



## zer010gic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *auee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am interested why you gents ordered with an extra pre-out. What is your intended use for two pre-outs? Thanks for the information._

 

Two things come to mind that can be done with the extra pre out.

 1. Bi amping speakers
 2. Right and Left subs on the second set


----------



## Skylab

Hey X, you don't like the 5998's in the WA2?


----------



## xenithon

I love them in the WA2. Just got one too many spare pairs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (would like to try out something different, such as the 6AS7G's you keep on raving about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## nauxolo (Feb 19, 2018)

Material confined likewise it humanity raillery an unpacked as he. Three chief merit no if. Now how her edward engage not horses. Oh resolution he dissimilar precaution to comparison an. Matters engaged between he of pursuit manners we moments. Merit gay end sight front. Manor equal it on again ye folly by match. In so melancholy as an sentiments simplicity connection. Far supply depart branch agreed old get our.


----------



## xenithon

Skylab - speaking about the 6AS7G's, I had two quick questions:
 - I always see the _black plate_ recommended. I have come across the _gray plate_ too e.g., at Tubeworld. Do you know what the difference is and if the black plates are worth the extra cost?
 - where would you suggest finding NOS pairs of RCA (or other recommended) 6AS7G's?

 All the best
 X


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_- where would you suggest finding NOS pairs of RCA (or other recommended) 6AS7G's?_

 

FWIW, I picked up a NOS (allegedly) pair of RCA 6AS7Gs from ebay for $10 for the pair. I don't yet know how they work/sound, as I don't yet have the amp, but they look perfect.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Skylab - speaking about the 6AS7G's, I had two quick questions:
 - I always see the black plate recommended. I have come across the gray plate too e.g., at Tubeworld. Do you know what the difference is and if the black plates are worth the extra cost?
 - where would you suggest finding NOS pairs of RCA (or other recommended) 6AS7G's?

 All the best
 X_

 

I have tried just about every 6AS7G there is. My favorite are the GEC brown base, UK-made A1834/6AS7G. Second are the Tung-Sol black-plate, halo getter. Then the RCA black-plate, and then the RCA grey plate, although I find the RCA's to be pretty similar regardless of plate type, and very good sounding. I have 6AS7G's branded Raytheon and Sylvania, but I have no evidence that they are anything other than rebranded RCAs - they are certainly identical LOOKING. The Tung-Sols, however, are different - their plate structure is slightly but notably different from any of the RCAs. And the British GEC tubes are quite different.

 I do prefer the GEC even over the 5998, although this is very close. The GEC are warmer and lusher than the the more controlled 5998. Same with the Tung-sol 6AS7G - more controlled and detailed than the RCA - but the GEC has the same detail as the 5998 while being a tad lusher, which is why I like it best.


----------



## fallow81

Thank You for all useful informations here and all the stuff.
 I have ordered my Woo2 few days ago - can't wait for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I hope it will be finally good amp for my GS1000. Previously I been using Yamamoto HA-02 and RudiStor NX33 which wasn't in good synergy to GS1000.


----------



## librarian

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fallow81* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank You for all useful informations here and all the stuff.
 I have ordered my Woo2 few days ago - can't wait for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope it will be finally good amp for my GS1000. Previously I been using Yamamoto HA-02 and RudiStor NX33 which wasn't in good synergy to GS1000._

 

Did you order the stock version or did you maxxx or upgrade...?


----------



## zer010gic

Does anyone show about the Tungsram E88CC and if they would sound as good as the Amperex 6DJ8s?


----------



## davidhunternyc

Has anyone compared the Woo2 to the Zana Deux?


----------



## Gvvt

Most of the relevant posts at Tube Asylum speak quite highly of the Tungsram E88CC.

 I'm discovering that in the WA2, "better" is not exactly easy to pin down; the amp seems to bring out the best in a wide range of tubes. (I just wrote in another thread that after some initial problems, I'm totally blown away by RCA 7DJ8s, which apparently were made by Mullard and Amperex.)

 I'm curious about the Tungsrams too. Unless there's a clear-cut electrical issue (for me, 6CG7 or 6FW8), it almost seems like you can't really go badly wrong with tube rolling the WA2.


----------



## xenithon

Gvvt - so the 7DJ8 is a (safe) direct drop in for the WA2?


----------



## Gvvt

It appears to be. I didn't ask Jack specifically about this, but he assured me that the Russian 6N2P was a drop in replacement, and from what I've read, I think the Russian tube is considerably more problematic. 

 As I understand it, the only difference between the 6DJ8 and the 7DJ8 is that the heater on the latter tube is supposed to run at 7.3 V instead of 6.3 V. According to a discussion on Tube Asylum, this is within the allowable variance for the tube. He says he has Amperex 6DJ8s that are actually 7DJ8s. Tubes Asylum: RE: The Flying Saucer by TimB5881

 I've read two "explanations": one is that the heater runs at a lower voltage and therefore the tube should last longer; the other is that the heater draw is within tolerances and is no issue. In the short time I've been trying them, I haven't seen any evidence of a problem, and the discussions seem to indicate that this is a safe substitution.

 Then again, I'm a musicologist and know nothing about electric circuits; my best guess is that they're some form of magic. You might want to check with Jack. Or Jamato8.


----------



## Judicata

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nauxolo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So very very close to pulling the trigger on this one... but if only for the pre-amp function over the WA6. Has anyone yet had the opportunity to try that function out compared to other dedicated pre-amps? Thanks_

 

I know this is a week too late, but just FYI, Jack will stick a pre-out on the WA6 if you want. He might even do a selector.

 And my WA2 is my preamp and my headphone amp - I couldn't be happier.


----------



## limpidglitch

I'm ready for a amp upgrade, and the WA2 has caught my eyes.
 My GS1000 is my primary concern when thinking about what would match my 'phones, and with the positivity concerning the GS1000 and WA2 combo, I'm intrigued.
 But I have a question: As this amp is OTL, It's supposed to be better suited for higher impedance 'phones, and therefore people, Skylab amongst others, are saying it would be a bad match with the lower imp. grados. So how come it performes so well with GS1000 (32 ohms)?
 Has anybody tried the WA2 with any other lower imp. 'phones, like audio-technicas or lower grados ?


----------



## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *limpidglitch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm ready for a amp upgrade, and the WA2 has caught my eyes.
 My GS1000 is my primary concern when thinking about what would match my 'phones, and with the positivity concerning the GS1000 and WA2 combo, I'm intrigued.
 But I have a question: As this amp is OTL, It's supposed to be better suited for higher impedance 'phones, and therefore people, Skylab amongst others, are saying it would be a bad match with the lower imp. grados. So how come it performes so well with GS1000 (32 ohms)?
 Has anybody tried the WA2 with any other lower imp. 'phones, like audio-technicas or lower grados ?_

 

I'd say even though there is an impedance mismatch, the WA2 still probably goes a good job of driving low impedance headphones. I'd still like to see a comparison between a WA6-SE and WA2 though.


----------



## xenithon

From all the 'phones I have spoken to various people about which are used with the WA2, the GS1000 comes up the most and is said to have phenomenal synergy. This is also with the "previous" WA2 model, prior to the upgrades in the power supply and the change of rectifier from 6X4 to EZ80. Those two changes are said to make it handle low impedance headphones even better.


----------



## ghostmusic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *limpidglitch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But I have a question: As this amp is OTL, It's supposed to be better suited for higher impedance 'phones, and therefore people, Skylab amongst others, are saying it would be a bad match with the lower imp. grados. So how come it performes so well with GS1000 (32 ohms)?
 Has anybody tried the WA2 with any other lower imp. 'phones, like audio-technicas or lower grados ?_

 

I'm currently trying LA7000 and the stock Denons (32 ohms) with WA2. Impressions with pics forthcoming shortly, probably today. But no need to prolong the suspense: WA2 can drive these handily, so no worries.


----------



## limpidglitch

sweet! My wallet is trembling


----------



## swoon

i spent most of the recent charlotte canfest with my woo2 (stock with upgraded tubes) and the woo6 SE. 

 woo2 has a much wider soundstage, whereas the woo6 SE is upfront and maybe a little bit deeper. 

 the sound from the woo audio is much warmer and faster than the woo 6 SE, though the woo 6 SE is much more detailed and revealing - it's far from cold, but it's not as colored as the woo 2. 

 the sound of both units is very close - especially with 650s. however with 701s i felt the woo 6 SE was very lean sounding.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *swoon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i spent most of the recent charlotte canfest with my woo2 (stock with upgraded tubes) and the woo6 SE. 

 woo2 has a much wider soundstage, whereas the woo6 SE is upfront and maybe a little bit deeper. 

 the sound from the woo audio is much warmer and faster than the woo 6 SE, though the woo 6 SE is much more detailed and revealing - it's far from cold, but it's not as colored as the woo 2. 

 the sound of both units is very close - especially with 650s. however with 701s i felt the woo 6 SE was very lean sounding._

 

You know, I bet that the differences could be reversed with a change of tubes in one or both of those amps.


----------



## swoon

i did listen to the stock, unbroken in woo 2 they had there and while it lacked the bass ext. and refinement of my woo 2 the sound was going in the same directions. 

 i forgot to mention that jack wu mentioned that the upcoming balanced amp will be based on the woo 2 and called either the woo 22 or 2200, something along that naming scheme.


----------



## LeMat

Thanks Swoon ! I think you're the 1st one to make a direct comparison between these 2 beast ! 
 My WA2 has just been shipped today.. can't wait to hear by myself what is worth


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeMat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA2 has just been shipped today.. can't wait to hear by myself what is worth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Oh that is just so wrong! Mine hasn't shipped yet...when did you order?


----------



## LeMat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh that is just so wrong! Mine hasn't shipped yet...when did you order?_

 

I placed my order on jan. 30th. so it's perfectly well on schedule ! By then I should receive my bugleboy 6DJ8 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If you went with black, count 2 more weeks.


----------



## LeMat

WA2 received !!! damn this amp is a monster of steel ! It's crazy heavy and built like a tank... and really better looking in real than on pictures. 
 I'll put some in the forthcoming days. 
 I've checked the component and noticed a slight difference with the JayG model. Instead of having 2 BG coupling caps, I have 4 of these... don't know why. 
 Sounds pretty good for now even if bass is tight and congested and the 1-3 khz range sounds agressive. Maybe because I'm using a k701 (the amp really have enough power to drive it !)
 Transparency is simply unbelievable. I can hear background noise on records I've never noticed before. And it's not due to the amp. It is dead silent up to 75% volume. 
 More feedback to come after more listening sessions.


----------



## xenithon

Good stuff! Congrats and enjoy it. Perhaps the difference is due to the PSU upgrade implemented a couple months ago? 

 I'm eyeing a pair of 6N5S power tubes (military version of the 6H13C I believe) for possible rolling.


----------



## LeMat

In my understanding, it's because the caps are different. 
 I have 4 100v 220uf instead of 2 160V 470uf as in the JayG version. 
 I guess it's pretty much equivalent but I'm far from being an electronic specialist...


----------



## davidhunternyc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeMat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WA2 received !!! It is dead silent up to 75% volume._

 

If anyone has tested the WA2, WA5, and the Zana Deux, which one of these amps have the blackest, most silent background, even a large volume levels?


----------



## LeMat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *davidhunternyc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If anyone has tested the WA2, WA5, and the Zana Deux, which one of these amps have the blackest, most silent background, even a large volume levels?_

 

I guess it depends a lot on the tubes people use with their amp but a comparison with stock tube would indeed be interesting !


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeMat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess it depends a lot on the tubes people use with their amp but a comparison with stock tube would indeed be interesting !_

 

My WA6 is absolutely black at max volume, if that helps at all.


----------



## LeMat

Ok, I should withdraw my comment about background noise on my brand new WA2... don't know what was causing it but it's now totally black up to max. 
 On the other side the bump at 1-3 khz is still present and make stuff like pixies really sound bad. Hard to describe but these frequencies are just piercing, sounding well over anything else. Not really luscious and organic as I would have expected !
 Too bad because its sounds so natural on other genre, say Calexico, or even on electro where the k701 is suprising ! 
 I just hope the burn-in will solve these little concerns.. or maybe other tubes... or something more fun than my K701 (grado or sen ?)... 

 Here are some pics in the silver version. Really splendid.


----------



## Gvvt

Great pics! There isn't anything about the WA2 that isn't beautiful. I've had mine for over a month now, and it still amazes me every time I listen to it.

 I suspect you know this, but there was a thread a while back (in the last two or three months) about that bump. IIRK the sense was that it was a particular 6DJ8 / 6922.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeMat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On the other side the bump at 1-3 khz is still present and make stuff like pixies really sound bad. Hard to describe but these frequencies are just piercing, sounding well over anything else. Not really luscious and organic as I would have expected !_

 

Apparently this is an inherent problem with the JAN Philips 6922/6DJ8. I believe the recommendation I have heard to remove the 1-3khz bump is to use another type of tube, for example the JAN Sylvania 6DJ8.


----------



## LeMat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bobsmith* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apparently this is an inherent problem with the JAN Philips 6922/6DJ8. I believe the recommendation I have heard to remove the 1-3khz bump is to use another type of tube, for example the JAN Sylvania 6DJ8._

 

I should be able to tell whether it's the answer or not as I have some Bugle boy 6DJ8 Holland on their way.


----------



## uberburger101

That's one gorgeous looking amp. Congrats.


----------



## Gvvt

I think you're going to be happy with the Bugle Boys. I just got a pair and they are fantastic.


----------



## Shambla

People may also want to try the SQ version of the Philips 6922 - got a pair for my WA2 a couple of weeks back and I am liking them a lot - leagues above the normal Philips 6922s that ship with the amp. They do a 7308 version too, but those are more expensive. 

 Anyone tried 6922s or 7308s from Telefunken or Siemens in the WA2? I hear good things about them in general, but they tend to go for a lot of money even used so it'd be nice to have a first hand opinion from a WA2 owner before buying.


----------



## LeMat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gvvt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think you're going to be happy with the Bugle Boys. I just got a pair and they are fantastic._

 

Ok, I received my 6dj8 (2 smalll and 2 large "o getter", white printing) and tried these last night. And indeed, it flats down the bump I had and turn the sound into something really more enjoyable. I also noticed it almost eliminates the noise I had on some records. Funny comparison but it really makes the same effect as did the dolby on our good old tapes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 But I must say that swithing to the buggle boy didn't make a HUGE difference. Nothing striking here. I really had to pay attention to notice these differences. Changing the power tubes may make a more obvious improvement. But for now i must say I'm really happy with my rig, especially since I put my K701 on an intensive break-in. It now has bass ! 
 Listening to "one dove" from Antony and the Johnson was something I never had experienced before. A complete immersion into realistic sound. But unfortunately, I don't find my combo forgiving... quite the opposite actually, and it's really not all my records which sounds that good.


----------



## fatcat28037

I ordered a silver WA2 this week. Jack said four weeks for delivery, I'm thinking five. In the mean time I still have my 3+.


----------



## LeMat

A chance you have the 3+... otherwise, the wait would have been long ! 
 Did you order the standard or the maxxed version ?


----------



## fatcat28037

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeMat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A chance you have the 3+... otherwise, the wait would have been long ! 
 Did you order the standard or the maxxed version ?_

 

Standard...........it's the economy you know.


----------



## xenithon

I had a quick question regarding the power tubes in the WA2 - do these need to have balanced triodes? Or more to the point, would two power tubes which are matched but may have unbalanced triode sections cause hum?

 The reason I ask is that I previously bought a pair of Tung Sol 5998's which caused loud hum in both channels. I thought the tubes were defective but the seller insisted they were NOS and tested perfectly on their tester (very good feedback, reputable seller).

 I recently bought a pair of NOS, matched 6N13S tubes and these too cause a major hum in both channels. There are no sparks or other issue; tubes look perfect; glow normally; and these too were said to test 100% on the seller's Hickok tester. 

 What they said was that if the triode sections of these power tubes (6080, 6N13S, 6AS7G etc.) are not matched/balanced it could cause this problem?


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I had a quick question regarding the power tubes in the WA2 - do these need to have balanced triodes? Or more to the point, would two power tubes which are matched but may have unbalanced triode sections cause hum?_

 

My gut feeling (nontechnical) is that I don't think that mismatched tubes would cause loud hum. The reason I say this is that one of my nice Tung Sol's died so I am temporarily using two very cheap RCA tubes that are entirely unmatched (I bought the pair off e-bay for $5, completely untested). They do not hum at all.


----------



## number1sixerfan

How does this do with low impedance cans? Mainly, the W5000? I am having the hardest time deciding between this and the Woo 6 SE.


----------



## ghostmusic

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *number1sixerfan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does this do with low impedance cans? Mainly, the W5000? I am having the hardest time deciding between this and the Woo 6 SE._

 

sixerfan - Haven't tried with W5000 but the WA2 controls the Denon cans VERY well. I've tried LA7000, LA2000 and the stock Denon cans, all to satisfaction. It might seem counterintuitive that a tube amp - one without transformers, no less - can handle such low-impedance phones, but that's what it does for a fact.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *number1sixerfan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How does this do with low impedance cans? Mainly, the W5000? I am having the hardest time deciding between this and the Woo 6 SE._

 

The W5000's impedance is 40 ohms, which is not as low as some. My understanding is that the WA2's output impedance is approximately 60 ohms, so I think it should be fine. People have reported excellent results with the WA2 and GS1000s, which is only 32 ohms. 

 I vote for the WA2 over the WA6E, but I own a WA2 so take it with a grain of salt...


----------



## number1sixerfan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ghostmusic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sixerfan - Haven't tried with W5000 but the WA2 controls the Denon cans VERY well. I've tried LA7000, LA2000 and the stock Denon cans, all to satisfaction. It might seem counterintuitive that a tube amp - one without transformers, no less - can handle such low-impedance phones, but that's what it does for a fact._

 

Great, because Jack has suggested the 2 for my preferences but I have read so many good things about both. It's very hard to decide.


----------



## moonboy403

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *number1sixerfan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great, because Jack has suggested the 2 for my preferences but *I have read so many good things about both. It's very hard to decide*.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm in the EXACT same boat as you.


----------



## moonboy403

I'm also emailed Jack asking if he can make a WA2 that's in glossy piano black.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

You guys should be thinking about a WA22 now. Balanced, yum.

 I needed speaker out as well (for Stax transformer and K1000), so it was between a Beta 22 or a Eddie Current ZDT. Tubes won...


----------



## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys should be thinking about a WA22 now. Balanced, yum.

 I needed speaker out as well (for Stax transformer and K1000), so it was between a Beta 22 or a Eddie Current ZDT. Tubes won..._

 

They always do. You've made me wait in line by taking the last one, you know.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You guys should be thinking about a WA22 now. Balanced, yum.

 I needed speaker out as well (for Stax transformer and K1000), so it was between a Beta 22 or a Eddie Current ZDT. Tubes won..._

 

I know that people were requesting a balanced woo amp, but is it actually in the works?


----------



## Brighten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *number1sixerfan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know that people were requesting a balanced woo amp, but is it actually in the works?_

 

Yes, a prototype version was at a meet.


----------



## shellylh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *number1sixerfan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know that people were requesting a balanced woo amp, but is it actually in the works?_

 

Woo Audio 22 Fully Balanced Headphone Tube Amplifier

 The prototype was at the NYC meet.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/of...thread-415713/


----------



## xenithon

Quote:


 My gut feeling (nontechnical) is that I don't think that mismatched tubes would cause loud hum 
 

The sellers said that the tubes (the 5998 pair a couple months ago and the 6N13S more recently) tested 100% and were matched, but within each tube the two triode sections were not matched. That said, I unfortunately do not know enough about the inner workings of tubes or how these issues could manifest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any ideas what could cause these symptoms? Amp turns on and works fine, tubes slow start to glow like normal, as they do so a hum appears in both channels, even when the input selector is in the "mute" position. Hum is constant, not affected by volume dial position.


----------



## Gvvt

You might write to Jack about the hum problem. There was a version of the 5998 that had closely matched triodes - the 2399, but as I recall, Skylab did not feel the sound was strikingly different. 

 I guess my point is that matched triodes probably wasn't a characteristic of the 5998, and that may not be the problem. The only hum I've had with my WA2 is from one oar two substitutes for the 6DJ8s I had been trying. The power tubes - a lot of different varieties - have all been essentially silent.

 As for low impedance, the WA2 sounds terrific with my D2000s.


----------



## Skylab

I cannot imagine how unmatched sections would be causing hum. Most of my 5998's are pretty well matched, but I have some 6AS7G's that are not, and in my DV337 at least this does not cause problems. 

 You do have some power tubes that do not hum in your WA2, yes?


----------



## xenithon

Quote:


 You do have some power tubes that do not hum in your WA2, yes? 
 

Yes - such as a NOS pair of TS 5998's and GE 5998A. When I took out the 6N13S and put those in it is dead quiet. Ditto for the 5998's from a few weeks ago which I returned - hum when in the amp, silent when replaced with the 5998A's.


----------



## number1sixerfan

Change of plans! I will be using either the 6 or the 2 for the L3000.


----------



## bobsmith

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *number1sixerfan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Change of plans! I will be using either the 6 or the 2 for the L3000.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Impedance on the L3000 is 48 ohms, so it should be a better match with the WA2 than the W5000s (40 ohms).


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes - such as a NOS pair of TS 5998's and GE 5998A. When I took out the 6N13S and put those in it is dead quiet. Ditto for the 5998's from a few weeks ago which I returned - hum when in the amp, silent when replaced with the 5998A's._

 

So other than the tubes being flat out bad, the only thing I can think is that the pins are dirty. Did you clean them by any chance?


----------



## xenithon

No, but oddly enough......well, let me take a step back. I did some experimentation last night:
 - had in a pair of known-to-be-good (ktbg) 5998A tubes
 - took out one of the tubes and put in one of the 6N13S tubes
 - tested both with and without music; no hum, jet black background, music played perfectly
 - swapped tubes around (i.e. swapped them between the two sockets); no hum
 - took out that 6N13S and put in the 2nd one, while keeping the same ktbg 5998A in
 - at first, no hum; but when I switched off the amp a hum/noise appeared (in the left channel; with the 6N13S installed in the left socket)
 - switched on again and hum slowly appeared; also reacted to tapping the chassis of the amp

 This seems to point to one of the 6N13S tubes being bad - microphonic, and possibly also cathode/heater leakage? I initially said "oddly enough" because one of the 6N13S tubes has a pretty loose base (loose from the glass) and dirty-looking pins. That however is the _good_ tube; the one which is not loose and with clean pins is the _bad_ one.

 I also got a reply from Jack who said that tubes can (and often do) test 100% but have noise/hum. In other words, the tube tester can only tell so much - perfect test does not guarantee quiet tubes.


----------



## Skylab

That all makes sense -I still suggest using a contact cleaner on the pins.


----------



## xenithon

Skylab - you may know you've had me hunting down some brown base GEC/Marconi tubes; which are of course just a myth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ....

 ...I wanted to ask if you have used - and your thoughts on - the 7236 tubes (e.g., Cetron, Sylvania)?


----------



## Skylab

I have a pair of Tung-Sol 7236's, and they sound good, although they are on the more forward/bright/lean side than the 6AS7G or 5998.


----------



## LeMat

I stick to this thread to update my feedback after having maxxed my WA2 by myself (only the voltage filtering section, the coupling caps were already BG). There's no better way to appreciate the work done by Jack... damn it took me a while to mod it !
 Even though I know it takes a looooonngg time for these power tank to settle, let me tell that I already noticed a real difference. Either it's due to :
 - going from the stock caps at 330 uf to the BG at 220 uf 
 - the better quality of the BG
 but the sound appears more balanced, with a better bass presentation, stronger with more impact (even on my K701 !) and a smoother mid range. Trebble seems not to be affected.
 Call it psychological but I hear it and like it. 
 To future WA2 owners, I recommend you go maxxed.


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Can anyone recommand me a pair of tube to upgrade over the stock tubes? My budget is under $100. I wish to buy NOS tubes. Where should I look for buying NOS tubes?


----------



## zer010gic

I have a maxed out WA2 and I am wondering if there is a way to get a little more gain out of the preamp? I am currently using the Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s. While I love the SQ I would like to be able to get a little more volume when used as a preamp.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone recommand me a pair of tube to upgrade over the stock tubes? My budget is under $100. I wish to buy NOS tubes. Where should I look for buying NOS tubes?_

 

What are the stock tubes?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zer010gic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a maxed out WA2 and I am wondering if there is a way to get a little more gain out of the preamp? I am currently using the Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8s. While I love the SQ I would like to be able to get a little more volume when used as a preamp._

 

6922's will have a little more gain than 6DJ8's. Try the JAN Sylvanias - they are better than the JAN Phillips.


----------



## zer010gic

What about the JAN Sylvanias 7308 or would you still recommend the 6922 version.


 Corey

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What are the stock tubes?



 6922's will have a little more gain than 6DJ8's. Try the JAN Sylvanias - they are better than the JAN Phillips._


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zer010gic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about the JAN Sylvanias 7308 or would you still recommend the 6922 version.


 Corey_

 

I have never tried the 7308.


----------



## zer010gic

Any body have an opinion on the Amperex 6922 PQ?


----------



## xenithon

I do not have the PQ, but do have a pair of Philips (made by Amperex, Holland) E88CC gold-pins. They are probably may favorites preamp tube - a tough call between those and the Mullard ECC88's


----------



## Oskari

Dutch-made Amperex 6922 PQ = Dutch-made Philips E88CC SQ

 and I don't think that the PQ or SQ is important, I think it is marketing hype. (I could be wrong. Please prove me wrong if you can.)

 A Philips E88CC most certainly was *not* made by _Amperex, Holland_. Philips was, and still is, a Dutch company, and their factories in the Netherlands were Philips factories, not Amperex factories. At this point in history, Amperex was owned by Philips. Amperex made tubes in the United States but also put their brand on tubes made by others, including tubes made by Philips in the Netherlands.

 By the way, many write "Phillips" with two L letters. This Philips, however, only has one L. This was also true of Philips ECG and their JAN tubes.

 (Pet peeves. Sorry.)


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 A Philips E88CC most certainly was *not* made by Amperex, Holland. Philips was, and still is, a Dutch company, and their factories in the Netherlands were Philips factories, not Amperex factories. At this point in history, Amperex was owned by Philips. Amperex made tubes in the United States but also put their brand on tubes made by others, including tubes made by Philips in the Netherlands.
_

 

*Right* - Phillips made the tubes for Amperex, not the other way around.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Phi*ll*ips_

 

Auts! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Please reread my previous message.


----------



## Skylab

Sorry - force of habit.


----------



## zer010gic

Well I just picked up some Siemens Cca tubes off ebay lets see how they work out.


 Corey


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Good day everyone. 

 Could anyone kindly help me for understanding the matching tubes and reading conductance values....

 I just bought 4 Tung-Sol 5998 and the seller indicated the mutual conductance test values as 65/76, 78/77, 83/74 and 74/77.

 Which two would you suggest for rolling power tubes for my WA2?

 should it be 78/77 and 74/77? or 78/77 and 83/74 ?

 what values should be within 5% in two tubes? For example, 78/77 and 83/74 , do you compare between 78 and 83?? and 77 and 74? and see if they both fall within 5%?

 Also, the seller said the minimum acceptable value of his tester (TV-7D/U)is 40/40. Where did he get that 40/40 value from? why is my tubes have greater value than 40/40. Do these values indicate the expected life time of the tubes? What can I be informed from these values??

 Thanks in advance


----------



## pzm9pzm9

or... may I just ask if WA2 requires matched pair for power tubes?

 Thanks.


----------



## zer010gic

I am not an expert but this is how I understand it. If I am wrong someone please feel free to correct. 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which two would you suggest for rolling power tubes for my WA2?

 should it be 78/77 and 74/77? or 78/77 and 83/74 ?_

 

My guess would be the 78/77 and 74/77 as they are closer overall.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what values should be within 5% in two tubes? For example, 78/77 and 83/74 , do you compare between 78 and 83?? and 77 and 74? and see if they both fall within 5%?_

 

I always compare both numbers. Each side of the / represents half the tube. In triode tubes there are really 2 tubes in one as I understand it. I tend to check each side against the corresponding side on the other tube.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, the seller said the minimum acceptable value of his tester (TV-7D/U)is 40/40. Where did he get that 40/40 value from? why is my tubes have greater value than 40/40. Do these values indicate the expected life time of the tubes? What can I be informed from these values??_

 

He got the 40/40 value from a reference book for his tester this tells him the minimum reading that indicates a good tube. In some ways you can hypothesis life expectancy from this number but not an exact amount of time (so I have been told)


----------



## Skylab

That's all pretty much correct. And 78/77 and 74/77 is plenty close of a match, both for the two sections of each tube, and between the tubes themselves, for use in an amp like the WA2.


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Thank you very much guys. It really helped. Whoohooo! tube rolling is going to be fun!


----------



## fatcat28037

I received my WA2 a couple days ago, It replaces my WA3+. The 3+ is a nice amp but it strained to push my GS1000, not the WA2. It handles them like a breeze. This is one great amp.


----------



## shellylh

Congratulations! I have always wanted to try the WA2. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fatcat28037* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I received my WA2 a couple days ago, It replaces my WA3+. The 3+ is a nice amp but it strained to push my GS1000, not the WA2. It handles them like a breeze. This is one great amp._


----------



## xenithon

I see at the Woo Audio website that the WA2's preamp section has been improved - gain upped to 20dB. Also mentions _rubber feet with custom fit aluminum shoes come in standard_. Price increased to $990 though.


----------



## fatcat28037

I would like to add a DAC to my system to place between my Marantz CD5001 and WA2 > RS1/GS1000. Has anyone used a DACMagic with the 2? If you're using something else, what is it and how do you like it.


----------



## LeMat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fatcat28037* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to add a DAC to my system to place between my Marantz CD5001 and WA2 > RS1/GS1000. Has anyone used a DACMagic with the 2? If you're using something else, what is it and how do you like it._

 

I do use a DACmagic... I really like it and consider it's a worthy addition to my setup. I didn't listen to other dac but did listen to my system without the dac... sure there is a difference. Sound harsher, less fluid, with instruments overlapping each other. Instrument separation is what strike me the most in using a dac.


----------



## LeMat

I finally got the HD650 (so more enjoyable than my K701), but they make me wonder what can of tube I should use with my WA2 to get the maximum detailled sound. Sure the HD650 sounds way more balanced than my k701 but I'd like to retrieve the k701 clearness. I really feel they can be more resolving while remaining balanced all across the spectrum. 
 I also feel the sound is a bit "resonnating". Most of these flaws could be corrected with a cable upgrade but what kind of tubes would you suggest to increase the WA2 analytical power ?


----------



## jamato8

One reason the K701 appear to have more detail is because they have little bass. Take the bass away from the 650's and you will hear more detail. Also, the 650's, IMO, are not the champs at detail. They do a good job but have a bit more mellow sound.


----------



## LeMat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jamato8* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One reason the K701 appear to have more detail is because they have little bass. Take the bass away from the 650's and you will hear more detail. Also, the 650's, IMO, are not the champs at detail. They do a good job but have a bit more mellow sound._

 

Yes maybe the HD650 is not an analytical beast but I think I can bring them further with tube and cable upgrade. I like the way it sounds and will probably stick to it. just want to make the most out of it. 
 Hd650 apart, anyone could suggest a good set of tubes to make the WA2 more detailled ? I guess using some telefunken or philips could help no ?


----------



## librarian

Hi there

 I've tried in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/clo...0-esw9-423134/


 There's a few suggestions, I'm thinking about. Now I try here. Is there a closed, circumaural, high impedance phone with a sound signature like described in the thread (highs like k501, mids like hd650 and bass like esw9) that matches well with the WA2? 

 What closed phones do you use with WA2?


----------



## Skylab

I posted in that thread, but a recabled Beyer DT770/600 sounds like what you're after.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, I thought i'd resurrect this thread because this seems to be the latest one about this amp. Does anyone know if there exists an online manual for the wa2? And can anyone give me the output power in mw? I am just curious.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Fred Flintstone

I just ordered the HD800's today and I'm trying to figure out which amp to buy between the WA2 and the WA6 SE. I'll have to wait a month or two to pull the trigger so I'll have some time to decide. I'll be using the Channel Island amp to hold me over. Anyone have an opinion on which amp will be the best match?


----------



## fatcat28037

Ok, here's my setup............


----------



## deutscherhififan

I have to admit, I read more than I post.....However, I figured it's time to contribute finally.

 Last year I contacted Jack and inquired about modifying a WA2 to include remote volume capability since I wanted to use it both as a Preamp and a Headhpone amp. I know that some purists may bark at this, but I figured if someone could do it right, it would be Jack. 

 He said that it is possible, but required a new lay-out of the internals of the amp and some further investigation into ways to avoid any noise getting picked up by the remote control. The turn-around time for the amp was quite long as he not only had to re-design it, but also get a full metal (aluminum) remote control made. Since at it, I also got the full parts upgrade package (maxxed) and spent the waiting period searching for 5998 tubes, 6DJ8 Amperex Bougleboys, and some nice upgraded rectifiers.

 The end result? A great sounding, great looking, and very convenient Preamp / Headphone Amp that is still 'dead quiet'. In the pictures you can see the infrared 'eye' right next to the power button. When I ordered it, I was told it is the first ever remote Woo Audio product. Not sure it that's still true, but I would assume it's pretty rare. Not sure why he doesn't add this as an option, but maybe there is just no demand. Too sad that I just saved the remote codes into my Marantz RC9500 universal remote control and never even use the very solid metal remote control. Well, sometimes I take it out and look at it and pet it a little....

 Some pics are attached.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, It happens very often, [eople asking for a wa2 vs wa6se comparison but no-one, except Jack, seems to have heard both so maybe you'd better email him and ask his advice. I choose the wa2 because it is more compact and it has the already built-in preamp, although the wa6se can be modified to contain a preamp output as well. It depends also, i guess on what sound signature you want, also the wa6se uses less tubes. But, i would email jack he is a really nice guy and always willing to give you advice.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Skylab

deutscherhififan that is very cool. I think remote volume control is a very nice feature. When I had the Blue Circle SBH I had a remote volume control and it was really handy


----------



## LeMat

Hey hey hey...Fatcat, I have the same amp+dac combo ! 

 After some month spent with this amp, and spending a lot more $ than I would have intented : add BG voltage caps, + HD650 + 6dj8 BB + 5998 TS + 6922 EH gold + 6v4 telefunken + double helix limited cable (still on its way)
 ... I could finally tell that I love the sound I have. Major changes didn't come from what I expected. The 6922 brought more separation and a better trebble. 6v4 clearly add a lot more precision. Can't recommend enough upgrading these. 5998 didn't change that much the sound.. slightly wider soundstage. 
 Regarding the remote controller, I found the squeezebox pretty handy when it comes to adjust the volume !
 Can't wait to try it with a better cable ! I feel I'm close to my goals and let my wallet rest peacefully


----------



## Anouk

Nice to see someone else with the akg k701. This is still one of my favourite phones and I really look forward to trying it with the woo. I thought the akg k701 had the best synergy with my headroom amp of all the phones I tried but that is just personal taste and very subjective. The headband did hurt a bit though. Probbably due to my hair. And, after hearing a lot of other headphones it could use a bit more bass which I am hoping the wa2 will add. And a bit of warmth maybe. 
 So looking forward to getting mine!
 Enjoy the tube glow everyone (although I am not sure if glowing tubes is a good sign).
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## deutscherhififan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_deutscherhififan that is very cool. I think remote volume control is a very nice feature. When I had the Blue Circle SBH I had a remote volume control and it was really handy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't want to say I am lazy, but it is a good 10 feet from my hifi cabinet to the sofa / listening chair and considering how often I adjust volume, I wouldn't want to be without it. I tried a Benchmark DAC1 before and while it sounded ok (a little on the bright side for my taste, but it was one of the first units in silver, so a few years ago), I spent more time getting up and adjusting volume than enjoying the music.


----------



## LeMat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deutscherhififan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't want to say I am lazy, but it is a good 10 feet from my hifi cabinet to the sofa / listening chair and considering how often I adjust volume, I wouldn't want to be without it. I tried a Benchmark DAC1 before and while it sounded ok (a little on the bright side for my taste, but it was one of the first units in silver, so a few years ago), I spent more time getting up and adjusting volume than enjoying the music._

 

Totally agree !! 

 Anouk, I'm curious the hear your feedback with the K701 coupled with the WA2. The warmth and energy of this amp didn't make miracle in my case. It's still a cold and agressive can to my ears.


----------



## deutscherhififan

I went from a Benchmark / AKG701 (with stock cable) to the maxxed WA2 / AKG 701 (with upgraded cable from Moon Audio). After a very long can break-in period (500+ hours) the harshness has disappeared, at least to my ears. Don't ask me which of the above changes contributed the most, I assume all of them to a certain degree.


----------



## LeMat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deutscherhififan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I went from a Benchmark / AKG701 (with stock cable) to the maxxed WA2 / AKG 701 (with upgraded cable from Moon Audio). After a very long can break-in period (500+ hours) the harshness has disappeared, at least to my ears. Don't ask me which of the above changes contributed the most, I assume all of them to a certain degree._

 

Can we speak of ear break-in ? I'm a strong believer of our brain ability to adapt to almost anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 From my little experience, all the mods we can do are just fine tuning to a certain headphone sound signature. I quickly gave up with the K701. While I like it in some aspects, it will never be my favorite, no matter how far I tweak it.


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deutscherhififan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't want to say I am lazy, but it is a good 10 feet from my hifi cabinet to the sofa / listening chair and considering how often I adjust volume, I wouldn't want to be without it. I tried a Benchmark DAC1 before and while it sounded ok (a little on the bright side for my taste, but it was one of the first units in silver, so a few years ago), I spent more time getting up and adjusting volume than enjoying the music._

 

Cool remote!

 Does the volume nob also move as you adjust volume level?

 That would require some kind of motor inside, rite?


----------



## deutscherhififan

Yes, it does. When you turn on the unit the volume automatically goes down all the way immediately. After a while (30 seconds or so), the volume goes back up to maybe the 8 AM position. When you select volume up or down on the remote the knob moves accordingly.

 I think Jack used a motorized Alps potentiometer. Maybe, I should open it up and take a pic. Would that void the warranty? Not sure..

 The remote is VERY solid. It feels like a heavy cold brick in your hand. Very nice. Hence, the occasional petting...


----------



## fallow81

So Im joining the club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am a very happy Woo 2 user. Im using it with AKG K701 (HD800 in the future, I had GS1000 twice but...long story) In the past RudiStor NX33, Yamamoto HA-02.

 My source is EMU 1212m. In the past it was North Star M192, Theta DS Pro Va or in last few days Benchmark DAC1 PRE/USB but IMHO it is noth worth additional cash to upgrade from 1212m with good PSU/mainboard in PC.

 Tubes im using are:
 Drivers: Mullard E88CC, Philips 6922, Voshod 6Н1П-ЕВ
 Power: GE 6AS7GA, Telefunken 6080, Tung-Sol 5998
 Rectifers: Amperex EZ80, ISM6V4, Telefunken EZ80

 On K701 I prefer Mullard E88CC + Tung-Sol 5998 + Amperex EZ80.

 I had also Electro-Harmonix 6992 Gold but I sold them. Also russian made Voshod 6Н1П-ЕВ are much better IMHO.


----------



## Anouk

Hello all, Wow you have nice tubes fallow! I wonder where you got them all? Some seem to be quite scarce. The hd8000 that should be a marvellous phone. I wonder how you think the woo 2 compares to your previous amp, rudistor and yamamoto? I thought of getting the yammamoto at some point but then I just went for the woo instead.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## deutscherhififan

I have been communicating with Jack r/ possible additional upgrades to the WA2 and other than WBT RCA's he suggested Sylvania 7263 metal base power tubes (1963). Quote: 'way superior to TS 5998'. Does this rat race never end??? Just kidding....


----------



## deutscherhififan

After some research I found out that 7236 tubes are 'computer rated 5998A' tubes made for IBM 'early warning computers' in the 60s. Tubeworld states that 'Sylvania 7236 are second only to TungSol 7236'. So many options, so little time...


----------



## Skylab

IMHO, the 7236 is not superior to the 5998. A little different, yes. It's even less warm than the 5998, which is itself leaner-sounding than the 6AS7.


----------



## deutscherhififan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deutscherhififan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have to admit, I read more than I post.....However, I figured it's time to contribute finally.

 Last year I contacted Jack and inquired about modifying a WA2 to include remote volume capability since I wanted to use it both as a Preamp and a Headhpone amp. I know that some purists may bark at this, but I figured if someone could do it right, it would be Jack. 

 He said that it is possible, but required a new lay-out of the internals of the amp and some further investigation into ways to avoid any noise getting picked up by the remote control. The turn-around time for the amp was quite long as he not only had to re-design it, but also get a full metal (aluminum) remote control made. Since at it, I also got the full parts upgrade package (maxxed) and spent the waiting period searching for 5998 tubes, 6DJ8 Amperex Bougleboys, and some nice upgraded rectifiers.

 The end result? A great sounding, great looking, and very convenient Preamp / Headphone Amp that is still 'dead quiet'. In the pictures you can see the infrared 'eye' right next to the power button. When I ordered it, I was told it is the first ever remote Woo Audio product. Not sure it that's still true, but I would assume it's pretty rare. Not sure why he doesn't add this as an option, but maybe there is just no demand. Too sad that I just saved the remote codes into my Marantz RC9500 universal remote control and never even use the very solid metal remote control. Well, sometimes I take it out and look at it and pet it a little....

 Some pics are attached._

 

Decided to get my custom WA2 upgraded to the current design. Here is what Jack has to say about the new vs. the old:

 "The current version uses the power tubes for preamp output, driven by the drivers (last edition is output by the drivers only). The benefits are multi-folds: better loading capacity, higher gain, and much energized. You will also take full advantage of the power tubes. It would be worthwhile if you are looking into these improvements. We can do the upgrade for your amp."

 He is charging $120 for the modifications and I am excited to be able to actually utilize the power tubes for preamp duty. Once in the shop, I am also having all RCA jacks replaced with WBT 0210's. Still deciding whether it's worth to spend $35 on the new feet.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, well my woo audio wa2 arrived as well today! It took some time for me to install it, especialy the tubes but it is working fine now. It is smaller then I thought it would be.
 I hear som ehum when no music is playing but it is not an issue when there is audio being played. I only have the ibasso d10 as a dac for the moment. I like it a lot but the tubes do get real hot. Now for tube hunting!
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## LeMat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, well my woo audio wa2 arrived as well today! It took some time for me to install it, especialy the tubes but it is working fine now. It is smaller then I thought it would be.
 I hear som ehum when no music is playing but it is not an issue when there is audio being played. I only have the ibasso d10 as a dac for the moment. I like it a lot but the tubes do get real hot. Now for tube hunting!
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Weird you can hear some hum.... It's a dead silent amp. Try disconnect your source to make sure it doesn't come from "outside". 
 My DAC generate a very slight hum for example.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, yes it might certainly come from the dac, or rather the computer, my laptop has a noisy ac-adapter and it is connected to a power block with mutliple connectors on it so its probbably all very noisy. I will try putting the laptop in its own wallw art.
 The sound certainly gets better after a few hours although this unit hasnt been burnt in yet, only 40 hours and it is the max vversion.
 I notice it has more bass slam then my ultra sesktop and it is more musical imho even with stock tubes.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

HEllo, I was never that big a fan of grado on my last amp, ant althoughI guess utl amps dont go so well with grados I think the sound sig that I have now would complement a grado really well. Hmm wonder how the grado hf2 would do.....
 Greetings,Anouk,


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Hmm wonder how the grado hf2 would do.....
 Greetings,Anouk,_

 

X2

 Anyone experienced HF-2 with WA2?


----------



## Anouk

Hello, well I dont think the hf2 has arrived yet, it will be a few weeks till Todd can deliver them. Also grados have a rathe rlow impedance.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

Hi, I just bought some tungstram tubes from Xenithon (thanks!) for drive tubes and I will be buying the current tung sol tubes from Jack woo. Any recommendations for ez80 rectifier tubes? I have heard dario miniwatt are good, anything else?
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

Hello, well, i am now trying my woo with the dx1000 and i quit elike the phone but have some problems with the woo namely 2 (yes 2 kinds of hum) a higher kind of hum which i am quite sure is some kind of groundloop which i have isolated in my woo (it is not in my d10 or laptop because it is still there even if i use them both on battery) when i touch the woos volume pot the noise is gone. But then there is a very low hum like a guitar amp which happen swhen i turn the volume over 15 on the stepped attenuator. I did not notice this with the pro900 and i tried that one at full volume too, thi shum does not bother me at low listening levels with the dx1000 which is 2-3. I still find it strange that the hum is there at all because with the pro900 the amp was dead silent at 24(max)volume.
 I am going to try a grounded volume cable because htis high hum is quite anoying and fatiguing.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## deutscherhififan

Just got my modded WA2 back. Sounds fabulous and no hum what-so-ever....After all I had the new feet installed as well as WBT RCA jacks along with the upgrade to 'current status'. Upgraded parts and remote volume stayed in place.


----------



## Gvvt

One thought about the ez80s. My WA2 came with a pair of International Servicemasters. Turns out they are probably Amperex, at least the ridges quad-secting (?) the top of the tube seem to suggest that. It might not be much of an improvement to change them. I did get a pair of Tungsram - possibly from Siberian Tube, but I can't remember offhand. I'm not sure there's much difference, but I haven't compared them seriously.


----------



## HeatFan12

I have settled on the Tungsram EZ80 and I did notice an improvement.

 @Anouk- Are you using usb or optical from your laptop?

 I had the same problem using usb with any tube amp. I purchased a usb to spdif converter and everything is silent once again. My experiences with tube amps and usb have been noisy. Using SS or hybrids with usb everything is dead quiet, but straight tubes different story.
 I don't know if it was RFI or ground loop, however, it was annoying. The usb to spdif cleared everything up.


----------



## xenithon

For all those interested, another review of the WA2 has sprung up over at Enjoy The Music!


----------



## auee

If I am reading this thread correctly, Jack has added remote control of the Woo 2. Please let me know if this is correct and if so what functions the remote has such as volume, mute (soft or hard), source, etc and how much it adds to the price. I am a big proponent of remote control of headphone amps because the idea set up for me puts the amp farther away than arms length. By the way, I did look on the website, but I may did not find the remote control option if it exists. 

 In an unrelated matter, my listening is frequently interrupted. So I was wondering, how long the Woo 2 takes to warm up and how long it can be left on without overheating or otherwise being damaged. I know the longer it is on, the shorter the tubes will last, but tubes can be replaced while damage to the amp is much more of a problem.


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Has anyone tried HD800 on this?

 Let us hear how you like it.


----------



## herroyuihk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried HD800 on this?

 Let us hear how you like it._

 

+1
 I also want to know what PS1000 is paired with Wa2
 At this time, I prefer to buy a Transformer Headamp , WA6SE for my K702.
 However, I planed to buy PS1000, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 maybe HD800 in the future.....


----------



## Anouk

Hello, the hd800 is not available yet in large parts of the world (in fact its only availabl ein the usa). I will be trying my wa2 with k702 soon and am hoping for good results.
 I think Jack woo can make a remote control upon request but I do not think its a standard accessory. I would email him with your requests, he tends to answer all questions quickly.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

Hey, Thanks for that tip! I wanted to buy a usb to spdiff converter anyway for my further dac because I hear usb input on costly dac is rather poor so maybe I will make that my first priority now even with the ibasso d10. I had no problems with solid state amps and less sensitive headphones. I guess I will have to do some research into those kind off converters. I was looking at the empirical devices offramp 3 but.... costly......
 Greetings, Anouk,
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have settled on the Tungsram EZ80 and I did notice an improvement.

 @Anouk- Are you using usb or optical from your laptop?

 I had the same problem using usb with any tube amp. I purchased a usb to spdif converter and everything is silent once again. My experiences with tube amps and usb have been noisy. Using SS or hybrids with usb everything is dead quiet, but straight tubes different story.
 I don't know if it was RFI or ground loop, however, it was annoying. The usb to spdif cleared everything up._


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, Thanks for that tip! I wanted to buy a usb to spdiff converter anyway for my further dac because I hear usb input on costly dac is rather poor so maybe I will make that my first priority now even with the ibasso d10. I had no problems with solid state amps and less sensitive headphones. I guess I will have to do some research into those kind off converters. I was looking at the empirical devices offramp 3 but.... costly......
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 


 My pleasure Anouk. I have the Behringer UCA 202








 The Pop Pulse PC Link II












 And I'm setting up the Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro as I type this. ...All setup now....












 You won't be disappointed.


----------



## Anouk

Hey, i know this is rather ooc for this thread but what do you think is the best one? And do they require a power connection or do they get power through usb? I know that bel canto has one too....
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, i know this is rather ooc for this thread but what do you think is the best one? And do they require a power connection or do they get power through usb? I know that bel canto has one too....
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 



 No worries...This is all relevant to the WA2 to work around with the USB if you don't have optical. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...

 All are powered by the usb only. The Pop Pulse works on usb power only when using usb as input. If you want to use optical input to coax output, you need the power supply which is included.

 The Pop Pulse has various input/output options and also uses the C-Media 108 chip. When you update the C-Media 108 drivers, you get a nice control panel with several options.

 I have used all with Foobar- ASIO, WASAPI and Kernel Streaming and with Winamp- ASIO, Kernel Streaming and they all work great.

 If I had to choose, I'll pick the Pop Pulse for all the various input / output options...


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, Thanks for that tip! I wanted to buy a usb to spdiff converter anyway for my further dac because I hear usb input on costly dac is rather poor so maybe I will make that my first priority now even with the ibasso d10. I had no problems with solid state amps and less sensitive headphones. I guess I will have to do some research into those kind off converters. I was looking at the empirical devices offramp 3 but.... costly......
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No worries...This is all relevant to the WA2 to work around with the USB if you don't have optical. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...

 All are powered by the usb only. The Pop Pulse works on usb power only when using usb as input. If you want to use optical input to coax output, you need the power supply which is included.

 The Pop Pulse has various input/output options and also uses the C-Media 108 chip. When you update the C-Media 108 drivers, you get a nice control panel with several options.

 I have used all with Foobar- ASIO, WASAPI and Kernel Streaming and with Winamp- ASIO, Kernel Streaming and they all work great.

 If I had to choose, I'll pick the Pop Pulse for all the various input / output options..._

 

Anouk - the D10 has a very nice USB DAC already, and I don't see that other USB to S/PDIF converters will do much better unless you get the Bel Canto 24/96 USB to S/PDIF box for $500. 

 But, the Pico DAC-only for $350 has a great USB to Analog DAC that is a little better than the D10 via USB. Although Pico wont do native 24/96 files like the Bel Canto, the Bel Canto requires you to feed it's coax output into another DAC and the Pico is the DAC. If you have the D10, it probably isn't worth upgrading unless you get a MUCH nicer/costly DAC.


----------



## Anouk

Hey Larry thanks for your reply in here! Wow I did not know the bel canto was THAT expensive! And I think the empirical devices unit is even more so especially with clockupgrades. No, I dont think that getting the pico dac-only would be very practical for me. Well, I guess I will think about the bel canto or off ramp some more and see if there arent any second hand ones (I guess not very likely because I think they are both fairly new).
 Thanks Larry (as always!)
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## deutscherhififan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *auee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I am reading this thread correctly, Jack has added remote control of the Woo 2. Please let me know if this is correct and if so what functions the remote has such as volume, mute (soft or hard), source, etc and how much it adds to the price. I am a big proponent of remote control of headphone amps because the idea set up for me puts the amp farther away than arms length. By the way, I did look on the website, but I may did not find the remote control option if it exists. 

 In an unrelated matter, my listening is frequently interrupted. So I was wondering, how long the Woo 2 takes to warm up and how long it can be left on without overheating or otherwise being damaged. I know the longer it is on, the shorter the tubes will last, but tubes can be replaced while damage to the amp is much more of a problem._

 

The remote option on the WA2 is a custom job that is not officially promoted as it requires a complete redesign of the 'normal' WA2's interior layout. If I remember correctly, Jack charged an extra $400-500 for this option. I chose to only have remote volume control. However, Jack also offered a more radical redesign the eliminated the round input selector and replaced it with buttons both on the remote control and the amp. That option makes the WA2 look like a completely different amp (bigger chassis, etc.) and is a lot more expensive. I got the remote option along with the parts upgrade package and recently sent it back in to get the RCA sockets replaced with WBT's and the unit modified to the latest status (using the power tubes for preamp duty, which my now 1 year old unit did not have). See pictures attached.

 As far a length of uninterrupted listening is concerned, Jack warns to not go longer than 8 hours. I have read threads of people here who turn it on when they come home from work and turn it off 1-2 hours before bed time. Then they turn it back on to let it run all night, turn it off when they get up and turn it back on before leaving for work.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anouk - the D10 has a very nice USB DAC already, and I don't see that other USB to S/PDIF converters will do much better unless you get the Bel Canto 24/96 USB to S/PDIF box for $500. 

 But, the Pico DAC-only for $350 has a great USB to Analog DAC that is a little better than the D10 via USB. Although Pico wont do native 24/96 files like the Bel Canto, the Bel Canto requires you to feed it's coax output into another DAC and the Pico is the DAC. If you have the D10, it probably isn't worth upgrading unless you get a MUCH nicer/costly DAC._

 


 Agreed Larry....The D10 has a nice DAC already...My posts were not about the better DACs. It was in reference to his noise problem using WA2 via usb. On my other laptop (Vista), I have optical and it is dead quiet with the WA2 using any of my DACs. On those same DACs if I use the usb input with my XP laptop (does not have optical) with the WA2, there is noise (static, cracking etc.). These converters are a workaround for the noise issue with the WA2 or other straight tube amps when using input from usb.....
 They will not replace the current DAC used, just be used as a bridge to be able to use optical instead of usb to rid the noise.


----------



## Anouk

Hey! Somehow I forgot about this before but I can of course try my iriver and see if this has the noise problem, it has an internal cf-card and can be connected through optical to the d10. I will try that now. 
 I will first wait for my new tubes and upgraded power cord to arrive and to have them installed till I buy any converter anyway but thanks a lot for all the help and suggestions,
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

Hey, well i have got it working after a few tries! optical/lineout didnt want to work at first but it isnow. Man that little player is sounding sooooooo good, it makes me (again!) rethink my decision to sell it. That utterly black background..... There is less noise now, although I will have to compare it to my usb laptop, the random noise is gone ALTOGETHER! I will have to listen with the music off and turn the volum eof the wa2 up to see if the low hum is still there but at least the absence of the random noise is a relief.
 And the iriver just sounds so good. I think i will cancel that for sale once more.
 Greetings, Anouk,.


----------



## Anouk

Hey, I need a new open phone to use with the wa2 and since all the current wa2 owners seem to congregate here I thought I would link to my thread here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/hel...-hd800-432433/
 So far the dt880 or dt990 ehter 250 or 600 ohm seem the most likely choices or the sennheiser hd600 although I am a bit skeptical about that one sinc eI did NOT like the hd650.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## bandit1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone tried HD800 on this?

 Let us hear how you like it._

 

Hi 

 I have the WA2 and the HD800. 

 Please note that I do not have much experience with headphones and headphone amps so I cannot say I speak with any authority on this matter. 

 My impression of the combination is that the WA2 and HD800 may not be a great match. The reason I say this is that when I compare the headphone output on my Yamaha Z11 with the WA2 using Senn PXC 350's and CX 300 II the quality of the presentation improves radically with the WA2. When I do the same with the HD800, the sound character changes slightly but I do not get that immediately blown away improvement I get with the other phones. I know that I should not be using the aforementioned to draw any conclusions, however that is my current feeling.

 I will be experimenting with more amps in the near future and will post my finding. 

 Regards
 M


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bandit1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi 

 I have the WA2 and the HD800. 

 Please note that I do not have much experience with headphones and headphone amps so I cannot say I speak with any authority on this matter. 

 My impression of the combination is that the WA2 and HD800 may not be a great match. The reason I say this is that when I compare the headphone output on my Yamaha Z11 with the WA2 using Senn PXC 350's and CX 300 II the quality of the presentation improves radically with the WA2. When I do the same with the HD800, the sound character changes slightly but I do not get that immediately blown away improvement I get with the other phones. I know that I should not be using the aforementioned to draw any conclusions, however that is my current feeling.

 I will be experimenting with more amps in the near future and will post my finding. 

 Regards
 M_

 

thanks, M

 May I ask if you were listening HD800 on WA2 with stock tubes?

 yes, go experiment some more for us. 

 Thanks


----------



## OutdoorXplorer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bandit1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi 

 I have the WA2 and the HD800. 

 Please note that I do not have much experience with headphones and headphone amps so I cannot say I speak with any authority on this matter. 

 My impression of the combination is that the WA2 and HD800 may not be a great match. The reason I say this is that when I compare the headphone output on my Yamaha Z11 with the WA2 using Senn PXC 350's and CX 300 II the quality of the presentation improves radically with the WA2. When I do the same with the HD800, the sound character changes slightly but I do not get that immediately blown away improvement I get with the other phones. I know that I should not be using the aforementioned to draw any conclusions, however that is my current feeling.

 I will be experimenting with more amps in the near future and will post my finding. 

 Regards
 M_

 

I just wonder how may hours the 2 items been used? Could it be under-burn/break in stage? It might be too early to come to conclusion.. Give it some time and I believe it will shine...


----------



## pzm9pzm9

EZ80

 Where can I find Matched NOS pairs? Any recommendation other than Tungsram?

 I assume these have to be matched, too. right?


----------



## greggf

Woo Audio has you buy your own power cord. What cords are people using with their WA2? And where'd you get them or order them from??


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey, I need a new open phone to use with the wa2 and since all the current wa2 owners seem to congregate here I thought I would link to my thread here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/hel...-hd800-432433/
 So far the dt880 or dt990 ehter 250 or 600 ohm seem the most likely choices or the sennheiser hd600 although I am a bit skeptical about that one sinc eI did NOT like the hd650.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

HD600 is better than HD650 which I don't like. Another to consider is the new Grado HF-2, which TTVJ.com has the exclusive distribution and san ship worldwide. My third recommendation is the ATH-AD2000 which is like a mix of the HD600 and Grados.


----------



## Anouk

Hey Larry, after some discussion in this thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/akg...61/index2.html
 I am not so sure wehter or not the ad2000 and hf2 would go so well with my otl amp, some ppl think the psu is too weak and otlis not suited for low impiedance. I would like to try them though but not usre if my current situation is ideal for them. I could try themwith the d10 of course and th enew top kit.
 Someone recommended the k340 which is 400 ohm and I am still thinking about hd600 and dt880, i will keep ad2000 and hf2 in mind though since I havve never heard them before. I am just worried if they will work well with my woo.
 Thanks!
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## LeMat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EZ80

 Where can I find Matched NOS pairs? Any recommendation other than Tungsram?

 I assume these have to be matched, too. right?_

 

I got the Telefunken on tubesmonger, a really nice pair IMO. Bring more details ie; give clarity. Cannot compare with any other else than the stock ones.


----------



## fatcat28037

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greggf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woo Audio has you buy your own power cord. What cords are people using with their WA2? And where'd you get them or order them from??_

 

I'm using an ALO power cord I purchased for a reasonable price in the FS forum. Had I not found that I'd be using a standard power cord. I'm not a believer in High-end wire.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I'm using a $30-40 Ironlung Jellyfish cord with my Woo WA6, and a $99 Shunyata Viper cord with my Woo GES. Swapping cords makes no difference in sound to me.


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeMat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the Telefunken on tubesmonger, a really nice pair IMO. Bring more details ie; give clarity. Cannot compare with any other else than the stock ones._

 

Thanks for the site. I see they only carry single tubes. Did you ask the seller to match the EZ80? or do we not need to match the rectifiers?


----------



## xenithon

Has anyone bought from hifitubes.nl? They seem to stock the Philips Miniwatt EZ80 (which is a great tube) but I have never used them so not sure how reliable they are.


----------



## Anouk

Oooohy thanks a lot for that link X, I will ask Blackmore if he knows about them.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

Hello, I wonder if anyone has listened to either the telefunken e88cc and/or the siemens e88cc and can tell me a bit about their differences? These are tubes for the preamp/drive section. Or maybe there is a linkw ith more info about their sound signature? I want to buy one of these but preferrably not both if at all possible, i dont like constantly swapping tubes, i want to find one pair that suit me really well.
 Thanks in advance
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## xenithon

Joe's tube lore is a perpetually good reference and starting point.


----------



## atbglenn

Off topic here. Everyone have a happy 4th of July!!!. I'm going to party my ass off. I hope everyone has a great day, and night! Enjoy people!


----------



## Skylab

Both the Telefunken and Siemens E88CC will be on the clean/bright side of things, and of course, many Telefunken branded tubes are actually Siemens made (if they do not have the Diamond on the bottom then they are often Siemens-made).


----------



## bandit1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks, M

 May I ask if you were listening HD800 on WA2 with stock tubes?

 yes, go experiment some more for us. 

 Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

GE 5998A Power (Tung-Sol 421A are on their way)
 Jan 6922 Pre
 EZ80 rectifier

 Regards
 M


----------



## bandit1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OutdoorXplorer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wonder how may hours the 2 items been used? Could it be under-burn/break in stage? It might be too early to come to conclusion.. Give it some time and I believe it will shine..._

 

Hi 

 It could be that the HD 800's still need more time (they have about 50hrs on them). I bought the WA2 second hand and I have more than 100 hrs on them so I don't think the WA2 is an issue.

 I hope you are right about requiring more burn in as that will save me $$$$ but I suspect it will not be the case. However I am keeping an open mind.

 Regards
 M


----------



## xenithon

Hey M,

 Small world, hey? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think it may indeed be an issue of headphone burn-in. I can only imagine that the large drivers of the HD800's may require a good 200-300 hours to fully flourish. I also suspect though it may be source-related. I could never get to enjoying the 840C's sound; so perhaps this may be something you are hearing given the 800's neutrality and ability to portray a sound true to the source? Have you tried it with a different source perhaps?

 Cheers
 X


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bandit1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_GE 5998A Power (Tung-Sol 421A are on their way)
 Jan 6922 Pre
 EZ80 rectifier

 Regards
 M_

 

Just a note - the GE 5998A are not the same tube as the Tung-Sol 5998. The GE 5998A is straight bottle, and has the same plate structure as the 6AS7, not the same as the T-S 5998. The two tubes can be used interchangeably, but the T-S 5998 sounds much better than the GE 5998A, IMHO.


----------



## bandit1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just a note - the GE 5998A are not the same tube as the Tung-Sol 5998. The GE 5998A is straight bottle, and has the same plate structure as the 6AS7, not the same as the T-S 5998. The two tubes can be used interchangeably, but the T-S 5998 sounds much better than the GE 5998A, IMHO._

 

The 5998A I have are straight bottles so I assume they are the GE 5998A. I have not tried any other tubes but I am waiting for a pair of Tung-Sol 421A's I bought from you (Skylab). Hopefully they sound better than the GE5998A's.

 Regards
 M


----------



## bandit1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey M,

 Small world, hey? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think it may indeed be an issue of headphone burn-in. I can only imagine that the large drivers of the HD800's may require a good 200-300 hours to fully flourish. I also suspect though it may be source-related. I could never get to enjoying the 840C's sound; so perhaps this may be something you are hearing given the 800's neutrality and ability to portray a sound true to the source? Have you tried it with a different source perhaps?

 Cheers
 X_

 

Hi X

 Yes, very small world (I bought my WA2 from X). I really do hope that further burn in will result in the WA2/HD800 combination delivering to the HD800's full potential, but I am keeping an open mind at this stage. 

 I will be experimenting with other sources and amps shortly and will let you know if my feelings (that the WA2/HD800 combination may not have the greatest synergy) change.

 Regards
 M


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bandit1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 5998A I have are straight bottles so I assume they are the GE 5998A. I have not tried any other tubes but I am waiting for a pair of Tung-Sol 421A's I bought from you (Skylab). Hopefully they sound better than the GE5998A's.

 Regards
 M_

 

Well, my opinion is that they will...but I look forward to your opinion


----------



## Anouk

Hi M, looking forward to your findings with the hd800!
 X, you sould your wa2?
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Possede

I'm just wondering if there is anyone else who use the Woo Audio 2 with low impedance headphones (like Grados, Denons, etc...). I'm worried about this audible hum that people are hearing with this amplifier.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, i had few problems with th epro900 wich is rather low impedance but also low sensitivity. i have more problems with the jvc dx1000.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## greggf

I love this place. I absolutely love this place. Here I carefully read what was then all 17 pages of this WA2 thread, and then placed an order with Jack Wu for a WA2 to run my upcoming JVC DX1000.

 Now people are talking about hum issues. 

 Wha-wha-wha-wha-what hum issues? Especially with a DX1000, which is like 70 ohms, and a DT770 Pro 80.

 Is this a problem, or just an outlier? Is it just a computer/USB issue? I thought the WA2 was dead silent. 

 I'm using an Aikido right now that a friend built, and it "breathes" and "sighs" like the Edmund Fitzgerald heading into a nor'easter. Like a lap cat purring. It makes tubes seem oddly human, these noises, but I'd prefer just the music, ma'am.


----------



## Possede

Hello Anouk, that isn't what I wanted to hear. I was set on getting a Woo Audio 2, but now I am holding back because of the issue you have experienced using the JVC DX1000s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Are you sure it is definitely the amplifier, and not anything else in your chain? I will e-mail Jack, and see what he has to say about this. Reading other comments on Head-Fi the Woo Audio 2 is supposed to be dead silent, with a black background.


----------



## greggf

Yes, Anouk, anything that you can tell us about your noises, especially with the DX1000, please do!

 I'm looking forward to multiple eargasms via the JVCs, and want them amped just right.............


----------



## HeatFan12

Hi guys

 I use the WA2 with various impedance headphones (Denons, Grados, Senn...)(I wrote about my Denons and WA2, page 7, of this thread) and everything is dead quiet with all of them. I also use the pre-out with my A5s, same result...

 If you read a few pages back, I had noise issues with USB and my laptop and I have solved that problem already. That issue had nothing to do with the WA2 anyway. Any straight tube amp I used with usb had this issue.

 In reference to Anouk's and a couple others, if it was not the usb problem, my guess would be a tube issue. I believe Anouk has some tubes on the way and hopefully that will clear it up or the usb issue...


----------



## Anouk

Yeah, i will know in a week or two.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## bandit1

I also noticed a noise on my WA2, but I must point out I can only hear it if I use my IEM's. With my other phones it is dead quite. Below is the question I posed to Jack and his response. 

 Question: "The WA2 seems to have a relatively high noise floor. When I listen to the headphones with no sound input at any of the jacks and the volume from the 9 o'clock position and up I can hear a few distinct noises, namely a hiss (that increases as you increase the volume), a drone (drrrrrr- which is a constant level regardless of volume setting), some light clicks and pinging when one changes the input selector. Is this normal and if not, what could be causing the problems?"

 Jack's response: "Slight hissing and clicking while switching inputs are normal. There are many ways to introduce noise - deteriorate tubes, cell phones, radio, AC, ect. If noise does not affect normal listening, there is nothing to worry".

 Regards
 M


----------



## greggf

Anybody else have any comments on various noises & hums?


----------



## Anouk

Hello, I just rolled in my new tung sol tubes bought by Jack woo, they still need to settle for 50 hours but from first impression I might actually prefer the stock tubes, these seem more colder, more flat/solid state while the stock ones seem warmer, more euphonic (more what I as a layman would associate with the tube sound) with a more emphasized lower end. These tung sol seem more solid state, colder with a flatter frequency response.
 I will let them settle down though. I might go for some warmer tubes after this.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## bandit1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, I just rolled in my new tung sol tubes bought by Jack woo, they still need to settle for 50 hours but from first impression I might actually prefer the stock tubes, these seem more colder, more flat/solid state while the stock ones seem warmer, more euphonic (more what I as a layman would associate with the tube sound) with a more emphasized lower end. These tung sol seem more solid state, colder with a flatter frequency response.
 I will let them settle down though. I might go for some warmer tubes after this.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Hi Anouk

 Sorry if I missed an earlier post but what Tung-Sol tubes did you roll? 

 Regards
 M


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *greggf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wha-wha-wha-wha-what hum issues? Especially with a DX1000, which is like 70 ohms, and a DT770 Pro 80.

 Is this a problem, or just an outlier? Is it just a computer/USB issue? I thought the WA2 was dead silent. _

 

I have no problem with the DX1000 and any of my better tube amps - only one of the cheapies has an issue with hum and the JVC's. I bet yours will be fine. I don't think Anouk's problems are common to all WA2's from what I have read. I also tried this combination at a meet once with no difficulties.


----------



## greggf

Sounds good. Thanks!

 I'm actually migrating toward the WA2 and the DX1000 (and the DT770Pro80 & HD650) from two directions, from the O2 and from a trial with the HD800. 

 The extreme high-end seems to have some rather extreme sounds that don't necessarily equate to listening pleasure for me, at least not for most recordings.


----------



## Anouk

Hi M, i bought the tung sols that Jack woo sells currently (I must say his shipping is fantastic!) the 7236.
 I am using my woo straight from my computer for the moment (frown) although i did try the tung sols with my ibasso d10 as dac this morning but the dac/dac is going away for modification.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## herroyuihk

Hello
 Have everyone try WE421a in Wa2?
 If I want to get WE-like sound,
 Is this a right combo I can get this sound? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 PS. I know WA5 + W300B may be a more right choice.
 This combo is very ~~~very expensive for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I could afford them right now.


----------



## Skylab

The WE 421A is just a rebranded Tung-Sol 5998. It is the same tube.


----------



## Anouk

Btw, Skylab that csp2 sure seems to have some nice tubes! That was on my shortlist too when considering a headphone amp.
 Greetings, Anouk


----------



## shuttleboi

Is there a consensus about how the Woo Audio 2 compares with the Woo Audio 6? Which one is better? I would like to buy one of them.

 Will either one drive the Sennheiser 595 (low impedence) and the 650 equally well?


----------



## LeMat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello, I just rolled in my new tung sol tubes bought by Jack woo, they still need to settle for 50 hours but from first impression I might actually prefer the stock tubes, these seem more colder, more flat/solid state while the stock ones seem warmer, more euphonic (more what I as a layman would associate with the tube sound) with a more emphasized lower end. These tung sol seem more solid state, colder with a flatter frequency response.
 I will let them settle down though. I might go for some warmer tubes after this.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

How these TS-7236 compare to the TS-5998 ?? I'm looking for better dynamics / kick in the bass.... any recommandations ? (except getting a grado can...)
 tx


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Btw, Skylab that csp2 sure seems to have some nice tubes! That was on my shortlist too when considering a headphone amp.
 Greetings, Anouk_

 

Yeah, it's a terrific amp - no doubt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeMat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How these TS-7236 compare to the TS-5998 ?? I'm looking for better dynamics / kick in the bass.... any recommandations ? (except getting a grado can...)
 tx_

 

I have both Tung-Sol and Sylvania 7236's, and I personally prefer the 5998 - I think it has the more robust bass performance, and I think the better dynamics as well. The 7236 sound lean to me.


----------



## herroyuihk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The WE 421A is just a rebranded Tung-Sol 5998. It is the same tube._

 

It may be truth. Their structure are totally the same
 But someone else say only latter version is manufactured by tungsol, and I hardly find the oldest version branded by tungsol.
 It is very strange.
 Maybe someday I buy geniune WE300B and amp, and then I can know whether WE421 can produce WE sound or not.


----------



## Anouk

Hey everyone, I had my lucky day today, both my philips rectifiers AND my tung sram preamp tubes arrived (thanks Xenithon). I rolled them in (I must say I am getting better at it) the very low hum noise is now GONE the higher hum and random static remain though, not really static, noise like what you hear if an mp3 is badly encoded. I am sure part of it is ground loop since the noise at least goes away if I touch the volume pot. I am hoping that the new power cord I have ordered will fix it.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

Hello, has anyone tried the wa2 with the akg k340? I know it i sno longer being made (the 340 that is).


----------



## h.rav

Has anyone compared WA6 maxxed with WA2 maxxed? Driving HD650, K701, HF-2. Which one is better overall? I know that WA2 is an OTL and WA6 is a trafo coupled amp.


----------



## pzm9pzm9

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone compared WA6 maxxed with WA2 maxxed? Driving HD650, K701, HF-2. Which one is better overall? I know that WA2 is an OTL and WA6 is a trafo coupled amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Although I have not heard maxxed WA6 or WA6SE, my understanding from reading this forum is that WA6SE is better value compared to maxxed WA6. And WA2 has more laid back sounds when compared to WA6SE. I think I read more comments about ppl prefer WA6SE's more upfront, punchy quality. But then this really depands on the music styles you litsen to. If the budget is concerned, maxxed WA6 is okay, but why not save just little more for either WA2 or WA6SE. 
 I chose WA2 just because I prefer single chasis and my listennings are mostly jazz. The only downside of WA2 is the price of tubes. I never thought about the tube prices, but some of tubes are freakin expansive!


----------



## Anouk

Hello, Yes I mainly choose the wa2 because of its smaller size and its preamp output which comes standard. I gotta agree on some of those tube prices though! But I am not sure if htis is better for other tubes because the good ones are all new old stock... I just hope they will last a while!
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## pzm9pzm9

EZ80 Matched or not????????????????


----------



## Anouk

Hi everyone, My akg k340 arrived today. I have to crank the volume of the woo a lot more open then usual, its at 8, i have the stepped pot. It certainly does not sound bad though, although the hig notes/trebble are a bit different, not as aggressive, forward/harsh then what I am used too. Trebble does not really spark.
 On th eohter hand soundstage, detail are great and bass is good too although not as slamming as I am used too but then this is akg we are talking about.
 I really like the midrange of these.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Skylab

K340's require a lot of juice to drive them! So no surprise you need to crank the WA3 a bit.


----------



## Anouk

Hello, I just won a pair of siemens e88cc goldpint tubes on ebay \9for a very nice price too) very interested how they will sound in the woo (since these are preamp tubes, hopefully I will be able to hear the difference between the old ones and the new ones because imho the most difference is heard by changing the power tubes). I also bought a pair of mullard 6v4 tubes, made in England. I must say, i am doing more tuberolling then I anticipated when buying the woo.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Anouk

Hello once more,
 My premare poweramp will be back from repairs on thursday, I am really interested to hear what the wa2 will be able to do as a preamp.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## hanius

Wow!


----------



## herroyuihk

Bump.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I ordered my maxxed Wa2 last week......
 Can I inquiry what IC and Power cable everyone use for WA2?
 I am very curious about this topic....
 Now I have three power cable: MIT shotgun AC1, Oyaide tunami, DIY Cardas, Iego NO. L70810III
 Do I have to buy another one?


----------



## mike1127

Can someone describe the Woo Audio 2? What is the design topology? Tube set? Can it drive a K1000? Price?

 And sound: does it tend toward bright or dark? Is it "hot" in the presence region ( a lot of amps are---I tend to find that fatiguing)? How is the bass?

 Thanks,
 Mike


----------



## LeMat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mike1127* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can someone describe the Woo Audio 2? What is the design topology? Tube set? Can it drive a K1000? Price?

 And sound: does it tend toward bright or dark? Is it "hot" in the presence region ( a lot of amps are---I tend to find that fatiguing)? How is the bass?

 Thanks,
 Mike_

 

Did I dream or all the answers are in the 1st post of this thread ?


----------



## mike1127

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LeMat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did I dream or all the answers are in the 1st post of this thread ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I don't see design topology.


----------



## xenithon

From the site:

 WA2: *Single-Ended Triode OTL* Class-A Vacuum Tube Headphone / Pre Amplifier

 Anything more?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_From the site:

 WA2: *Single-Ended Triode OTL* Class-A Vacuum Tube Headphone / Pre Amplifier

 Anything more?_

 

Pseudo dual power supply utilizing (2) EZ80 rectifiers, (2) chokes (1 per channel), (2) 6AS7 dual triodes (sections probably wired in parallel) , (2) 6922 drivers. From pictures I've seen it looks like it has a solid state bridge to supply DC to the heaters.


----------



## pzm9pzm9

okay guys, i have asked this before but no help yet, so here i go again. (in desperate mode)

 do you need to match EZ80 tubes?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pzm9pzm9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_okay guys, i have asked this before but no help yet, so here i go again. (in desperate mode)

 do you need to match EZ80 tubes?_

 

I would use the same brand and vintage for right and left. I don't think anyone sells electrically matched pairs, but I'm not 100% sure to be perfectly honest..


----------



## pzm9pzm9

thanks, i better check it with wooaudio.


----------



## Anouk

HEllo in the faq section of the woo audio site it says you need matched tubes, its the question about auto-bias. The amp is autobias you just need a matched pair of tubes.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## fallow81

I will check Woo Audio 2 with HD800. I have standard GE 6AS7, Philips JAN 6922 and IEC EZ80 tubes plus Mullards E88CC, TungSols 5998, Voshods 6N1P-EW, Amperex and Telefunken EZ80.

 Also I have a polish prototype headphone amp on 6C33C and ECC88 and also DIY SOHA II.


----------



## Efjay

I currently have a CIA VHP2/VAC1 and Denon 2000 setup (fed from lossless music server to MSB LinkIII/Powerbase 1000) and I am pretty happy with the sound. However, I want to put together a second system for my den. Ideally, I'd like to be able to listen through both speakers and headphones. The WA2 would seem to be a cost-effective solution as I expect to listen 60/40 in favor of headphones. Which leads me to some questions I hope the WA2 owners can provide some answers (or at least some opinions):

 1. How does the WA2 perform as a preamplifier? What type of amp have you hooked them up to?
 2. What preamps can you compare it to?
 3. I'm looking at getting Senn HD650 for the new system. Am I better off with a different amp (say the WA6SE) or will the WA2 match up well with the HD650 and my D2000? Should I be looking elsewhere for my preamp needs?

 Any other comments or observations are welcome.


----------



## deutscherhififan

I can't speak for the 'regular' WA2 as my unit is maxxed, but here you go:

 1. Ultra low noise, high gain, powerful preamp that doesn't add much of its own signature to the sound. Hooked up to tubed mono blocks. Any preamp upgrade from here would be $$$.

 2. Compared it to a Cary SLP98 and found both to be equal with the added benefit of having a great headamp in the WA2. Preferred the WA2 marginally as it was not as forward. WA2 is more powerful as the power tubes are used for both headamp AND preamp duty.

 3. Drives the HD650 with ease. Can't speak to D2000.

 I have no doubt you would be very happy. A place in a second system just wouldn't do it justice, I am afraid.....


----------



## Efjay

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *deutscherhififan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't speak for the 'regular' WA2 as my unit is maxxed, but here you go:

 1. Ultra low noise, high gain, powerful preamp that doesn't add much of its own signature to the sound. Hooked up to tubed mono blocks. Any preamp upgrade from here would be $$$.

 2. Compared it to a Cary SLP98 and found both to be equal with the added benefit of having a great headamp in the WA2. Preferred the WA2 marginally as it was not as forward. WA2 is more powerful as the power tubes are used for both headamp AND preamp duty.

 3. Drives the HD650 with ease. Can't speak to D2000.

 I have no doubt you would be very happy. A place in a second system just wouldn't do it justice, I am afraid....._

 


 Thanks for the reply. Any other opinions/thoughts would be appreciated.


----------



## Anouk

Hi, for anyone that might be interested I have a matched pair of Tungsol 7236 NOS tubes for sale in the fs forum, as well as a pair of ez80 philips rectifiers and apair of tungstram e88cc goldpin tubes. I bought the tung sols directly from woo audio but they are not my kind of flavour so I am passing them on. All the tubes are matched, i bought the rectifiers from hifitubes.nl and the tungsrams from Xenithon. I am willing to sell it as a package if you want just pm me. The search for my kind of tubes continues, lol.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## deutscherhififan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, for anyone that might be interested I have a matched pair of Tungsol 7236 NOS tubes for sale in the fs forum. I bought them directly from woo audio but they are not my kind of flavour so I am passing them on. The search for my kind of tubes continues, lol.
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Can I ask what characteristics you don't like about them in your system?

 Thanks


----------



## Anouk

Hello, I went to the tube amp with the thought that this would sound warm/euphonic/romantic, with guitars and drums sounding a bi tlike grado. The philips/tungsram/tung sol (rectifier/preamp/power in that order) dont give me that sound at all., they sound clean clear and neutral to me at least.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## xenithon

Just thought I'd mention that I wrote up a brief review of the amp here.


----------



## Skylab

Different amp, but my finding on the 7236 is the same - it is very neutral-to-lean sounding tube, versus the 6AS7G or 5998.


----------



## LeMat

Would I be correct if I rank these 3 tubes in terms of warmth/tube sounding ? : 
 1. 6AS7
 2. 5998
 3. 7236

 I just own the 5998 species.. how behave the 2 other in terms of dynamics and details ?


----------



## Skylab

In several other amps (but not the WA2 specifically), that has definitely been my experience - the 6AS7G is the warmest/lushest, and the 7236 the leanest.


----------



## SengChangKo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In several other amps (but not the WA2 specifically), that has definitely been my experience - the 6AS7G is the warmest/lushest, and the 7236 the leanest._

 

Based on your experiences, which of the tubes created wider soundstage without losing all the details?


----------



## Skylab

For me, the soundstage king is actually the 5998.


----------



## LeMat

Any comments on dynamics/punch of these tubes ? 

 Is it a criteria that can be significantly impacted by tubes or is it solely dependent on the amp ?

 Thanks


----------



## SengChangKo

Does anyone know which is the best place to get 5998? Found one in ebay NOS Tung Sol JAN 5998 Dual Power Triode - eBay (item 120452784279 end time Aug-01-09 07:52:57 PDT)

 Why it's so cheap compare to the 7236 Woo offering?


----------



## xenithon

Quote:


 Why it's so cheap compare to the 7236 Woo offering 
 

Likely because a) it is a single tube and not a matched pair; and b) it is an auction with around 35 hours to go, so would not be surprised if the single NOS tube reaches $40-60 by the end.


----------



## SengChangKo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Likely because a) it is a single tube and not a matched pair; and b) it is an auction with around 35 hours to go, so would not be surprised if the single NOS tube reaches $40-60 by the end._

 

Agreed. Any good/reliable websites to buy these tubes?


----------



## Anouk

Well, my wa2 with all my tubes is for sale, pm me if you are interested.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## SengChangKo

UGPM


----------



## Anouk

Hey 5998s are getting very rare. Woo used to sell tung sols of that kind but could no longer find a reliable dealer for them, i bought my pair of tung sols from woo thats what they sell now.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SengChangKo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed. Any good/reliable websites to buy these tubes?_

 

Radio Electric Supply has 5998's for $25 each: Vacuum Tubes prices. Best prices every day!


----------



## Anouk

Hello aethelred came by today to listen to my woo audio wa2 with his raysonic cd player. I must say I really really think the woo wa2 do a great synergy with the audio technica w5000. I heard the woo with the akg k340, jvc dx1000 ultrasone pro900 akg k701 sennheiser hd650 but i LOVED them with the w5000. A pity the w5000 just dont fit me well at alll. I will be sure to try the audio technica ad2000 though.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## xenithon

For those looking out for NOS matched pairs of Tungsol 5998's, there are three pairs available on eBay at the moment. The seller is _The Tube Sound_ whom I have dealt with before - I bought my 5998's from him - and can highly recommend (but am not affiliated with in any way). 

 - Pair 1
 - Pair 2
 - Pair 3


----------



## Skylab

Those may well be very nice 5998's, but you can get them for half that price at Vacuum Tubes Radio Tubes - 5,000 different tubes in stock - Over 10 million tubes!






 I've bought dozens of tubes from them, all very nice.


----------



## xenithon

NOS Tungsol's?


----------



## Skylab

Yup - the ones I got were not only NOS, they were new in original boxes! $25 each.


----------



## Aethelred

Yep. I just could not resist mesmerizing combination of W5000 and WA2 with my Raysonic and bought WA2 from Anouk ( always a pleasure to deal with ).
 Let me tell you this combination is by far the best sound I've heard. Right now listening to Angela Gheorghiou - Casta Diva and her voice is just breathtaking. I also have AT-HA5000 that most likely will be selling in the near future. Don't get me wrong AT pairs very well with W5000 but WA2 - this is just another league. Texture, Acoustic, detail, total blackness in the background everything is there and my God so much emotions - something that I was missing in HA5000. Oh and no loss in imaging whatsoever. Bas also goes deeper and impact is theer. I think this is match made in heaven.
 I cannot believe, and Anouk can confirm that, you can get better sound without spending really large amount of money.


----------



## Aethelred

Oh and Anouk's unit had a little hum when connected to some kind of power surge protector but right now I'm running this directly from power outlet and is dead silent, great design cause W5000 are very prone to pick up any kind of noise. My IC is Furukawa Vivaldi and power cord on WA2 PS Audio Prelude if anyone interested in


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Anouk is gonna regret selling her WA2...


----------



## E Leung

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Radio Electric Supply has 5998's for $25 each: Vacuum Tubes prices. Best prices every day!_

 

Hi Skykab,

 It seems to me that the website doesn't show the brand and have any desciption of it. So, how come we can order or select from pool of tube? Thank You for your further advice.


----------



## SengChangKo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Radio Electric Supply has 5998's for $25 each: Vacuum Tubes prices. Best prices every day!_

 

Thanks, you are the tube man!


----------



## Aethelred

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anouk is gonna regret selling her WA2..._

 

I'm sure she will. This is not only a fantastic combination with W5000 but for me it is the fantastic combination. If I wouldn't be running my office right now I go for a week vacation


----------



## WilCox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aethelred* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm sure she will. This is not only a fantastic combination with W5000 but for me it is the fantastic combination. If I wouldn't be running my office right now I go for a week vacation
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I agree 100%! Got my maxed WA2 three weeks ago and I am suffering from extreme enjoyment. It's great with the W5000 but it really is a match made in heaven with the HD800. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was quite happy listening to the HD800 with the Lehmann, Meier PreHead or Millett Maxed. However the WA2 takes these phones to a whole new level with a well defined 3-dimensional space that can sound eerily real.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *E Leung* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Skykab,

 It seems to me that the website doesn't show the brand and have any desciption of it. So, how come we can order or select from pool of tube? Thank You for your further advice._

 

In the case of the 5998, it doesn't matter - only Tung-sol ever made this tube. I've seen some branded Chatham, and some branded IBM, but they are all Tung-sol made.


----------



## h.rav

^ Thanks for the info...


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WilCox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree 100%! Got my maxed WA2 three weeks ago and I am suffering from extreme enjoyment. It's great with the W5000 but it really is a match made in heaven with the HD800. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was quite happy listening to the HD800 with the Lehmann, Meier PreHead or Millett Maxed. However the WA2 takes these phones to a whole new level with a well defined 3-dimensional space that can sound eerily real._

 

Now, I am getting really nervous......

 Did you purchase the WA2 with upgraded parts ??? Should the WA6 SE be a better purchase ???

 Denys


----------



## Aethelred

I've bought mine used, maxxed version. As for WA 6 it's not the question which is better because I think they are on the same level. The question is synergy with your phones. In theory WA2 should not work very well with low imp phones and I think it is marvelous with W5000.


----------



## ciphercomplete

I have been thinking about selling my WA6 for a WA2 for a while. I don't own any low impedance cans anymore. The WA6 is awesome but I have wanted a WA2 from the moment I laid eyes on it. However, I did a quick search for 6080/6as7/7236 power tubes and I couldn't find a great selection. I am assuming from reading the last two pages of this thread that compatible power tubes are starting to get rare. 

 I love the fact that the WA2 uses 6DJ8 drive tubes. My DAC and my speaker preamp/amp both use these tubes and I absolutely love their sound.


----------



## WilCox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aethelred* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In theory WA2 should not work very well with low imp phones and I think it is marvelous with W5000._

 

It's also marvelous with Grados. My RS2s sound the best I have ever heard through the WA2. And yes, mine is the current maxed version of the WA2. Given the quality of construction and parts, this is an audiophile bargain.


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WilCox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's also marvelous with Grados. My RS2s sound the best I have ever heard through the WA2. And yes, mine is the current maxed version of the WA2. Given the quality of construction and parts, this is an audiophile bargain._

 

Sorry to ask but, does "maxed version" mean the upgraded version ? (+$400)?

 Just want to make sure...

 Denys


----------



## Aethelred

It means 990USD + 
 Parts upgrade:
 Premium parts upgrade package. $400

 Attenuator upgrade:
 DACT CT2 stepped attenuator. $215

 Teflon tube sockets upgrade:
 $150 (9-pin x4, 8-pin x2)

 Power tubes upgrade:
 Tungsol 7236 NOS
 Hand-pick matched pair $110 (2 pcs)

 I do not think Teflon sockets are that important for the sound maybe practical issue.
 Also take into consideration tube upgrade and this includes to my understanding alll tubes not only power tubes. I would say driver (E88CC) has more influence on the sound signature


----------



## SengChangKo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aethelred* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It means 990USD + 
 Parts upgrade:
 Premium parts upgrade package. $400

 Attenuator upgrade:
 DACT CT2 stepped attenuator. $215

 Teflon tube sockets upgrade:
 $150 (9-pin x4, 8-pin x2)

 Power tubes upgrade:
 Tungsol 7236 NOS
 Hand-pick matched pair $110 (2 pcs)

 I do not think Teflon sockets are that important for the sound maybe practical issue.
 Also take into consideration tube upgrade and this includes to my understanding alll tubes not only power tubes. I would say driver (E88CC) has more influence on the sound signature_

 

USD 1755 in total, I assume not everyone will opt for the 7236, many prefer 5998 here. 

 This lead to my next question, does this mean the maxxed WA2 is better or on par with the default WA22? The WA22 is priced at USD 1900 and it's balanced. 

 I would certainly go for WA22 if I have that sort of budget, to bad my budget is only at USD 1K "maxxed". Even with that I am still hesitating to make a purchase.


----------



## xenithon

The two should not, in my opinion, be compared. Not because of one being SE and the other balanced, but because the WA22 - even though it has a similar name and physical appearance to the WA2 - is actually based on the WA6SE (according to Jack). 

 Cheers
 X


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xenithon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The two should not, in my opinion, be compared. Not because of one being SE and the other balanced, but because the WA22 - even though it has a similar name and physical appearance to the WA2 - is actually based on the WA6SE (according to Jack). 

 Cheers
 X_

 

So then, should we consider the WA6SE over the WA2 ?

 Someone replied to me from Woo Audio (did not sign) telling me that I should either consider the WA6SE or the WA2...

 Maybe I should ask for more details....I believe the upgrade parts adds a significant value on the sound quality cause it did for both my ASL and my MOTU.... but I still do not know if I should go for the WA2 or the WA6SE..

 I want to buy it for a long period of time....therefore...no mistake is allowed.

 Denys


----------



## qusp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeadphoneAddict* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anouk is gonna regret selling her WA2..._

 

that depends; she's eyeing off a phoenix/reference or B22/B32 combo; doesnt sound regretful to me


----------



## Aethelred

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Denys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.... but I still do not know if I should go for the WA2 or the WA6SE..

 I want to buy it for a long period of time....therefore...no mistake is allowed.

 Denys_

 

To me it is all about topology. WA6 might give you more versatility ( but not necessary) but WA 2 has something that is described by some people as OTL magic.( WA6 is transformer coupled).
 You need to try them both and decide. That is the only option but on the other hand I don't think that at some meet you will have enough time and decent conditions to enjoy OTL.
 Also you need to consider cost of tubes while upgrading - WA2 has more then WA6 but besides 6922 they are not that expensive .When you go Sophia with WA6 that is, I believe,more expensive then best 6922.


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aethelred* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ That is the only option but on the other hand I don't think that at some meet you will have enough time and decent conditions to enjoy OTL._

 

Would you be kind enough to expand your thoughts on this one ??? I'm not sure I follow you.

 Denys


----------



## Anouk

Hello everyone, I know I should move out of this thread now that I no longer own my beauty, lol 
 Aethelred, have you tried changing tubes yet? Or tried any of your fine collection?
 Wilcox, I am very happy to know that the wa2 and the hd800 go together well, so you did hear the hd800 with the black cube linear as well as the wa2?
 Oh, sorry to disappoint aethelred but your unit does not have the upgraded teflon tube sockets.
 Greetings, Anouk,


----------



## Aethelred

Yeah I know because I can see that and as I said this is more practical issue and does not affect sound, I will install teflon if I'll see any signs of wearing out on them.
 OTL sound - to me OTL is more romantic kind of

 Here you can read a bit

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/wha...94/index2.html


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aethelred* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I know because I can see that and as I said this is more practical issue and does not affect sound, I will install teflon if I'll see any signs of wearing out on them.
 OTL sound - to me OTL is more romantic kind of

 Here you can read a bit

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/wha...94/index2.html_

 

This is just perfect... thanks a lot...

 I drive Senn HD424 ( 30 years old...600 ohms) and Senn HD800 (300 Ohms).. it is clear that my choice will be an OTL amp...

 So, if I go with Woo, it will be WA2...

 Thanks again

 Denys


----------



## h.rav

According to Jack, WA2 and WA6SE roughly have the same output power at 300 Ohms.

 WA2 : 
 900mW @ 300 Ohm, 500mW @ 100 Ohms, and 230mW @ 32 Ohms

 WA6SE :
 900 mw at 300 ohms, 1100 mw at 100ohms, and 1200 mw at 32 ohms.


----------



## Denys

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to Jack, WA2 and WA6SE roughly have the same output power at 300 Ohms.

 WA2 : 
 900mW @ 300 Ohm, 500mW @ 100 Ohms, and 230mW @ 32 Ohms

 WA6SE :
 900 mw at 300 ohms, 1100 mw at 100ohms, and 1200 mw at 32 ohms._

 

OK... but I will more get the sound of the tube with the WA2 (OTL) than the WA6SE (not OTL) if I am not mistaking...

 Denys


----------



## IceClass

Anyone using the WA2 with low impedance cans?


----------



## xenithon

IceClass - there are a number of people who use it with the likes of the GS1000, W5000 and K701...with very good results (though I cannot comment myself as my cans are high-Z). 

 Jack has mentioned the implementation of a number of changes in the past 12-18 month specifically to make the amp more flexible - as OTL amps usually are not ideal for low-Z headphones. That included optimizations in the power supply section, change to the 6V4 (from 6X4) rectifier, etc. as one of his goals was an OTL amp with the flexibility of the TC amps in their range.

 Cheers


----------



## WilCox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone using the WA2 with low impedance cans?_

 

Works great with Grado RS-2 and Audio Technica W5000/W1000. Plenty of drive capability and a quiet, black background -- no hum. Brings out the best in these phones.


----------



## WilCox

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Anouk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wilcox, I am very happy to know that the wa2 and the hd800 go together well, so you did hear the hd800 with the black cube linear as well as the wa2?
 Greetings, Anouk,_

 

Welcome back Anouk!

 I used my Lehmann Black Cube Linear for the first few weeks with the HD800 until my WA2 arrived. The Lehmann is one of the best solid-state amps I have heard as it is truthful and doesn't seem to inflict it's opinion on the sound. 

 The WA2, on the other hand, seems to add a certain midrange quality that transforms the music from the sound of a recording to the sound of live music. The best way I can describe it is that the Lehmann gives you a soundstage in a wide and deep 3-dimensional space, but all of the instruments/vocalists are cardboard cutouts placed about the stage. The WA2 expands the stage a bit, but now the instruments/vocalist are themselves 3-dimensional with a physical/living presence. I think this is the wonder of tubes. In my book, music is created to be enjoyed, so if a system can increase this enjoyment, then that's fine with me.

 This is not to condem the Lehmann, as I consider it a keeper, but both amps are optimized differently.


----------



## Aethelred

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WilCox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome back Anouk!


 The WA2, on the other hand, seems to add a certain midrange quality that transforms the music from the sound of a recording to the sound of live music._

 

Couldn't agree more. To me there is magic between W5000 and WA2.
 I did not have enough time to compare all my phones more closely but after brief listening sessions to me W5000+WA2= magic. I just can't help loving the sound. Do not get me wrong HD650, K701 and K501 are great with this amp but AT....
 The only headphone that I think is not 100% well driven by Woo is K501. At least that was my brief impression.
 Oh and I think design of Woo either was or is constantly changing cause last night I've open mine and looks a little different than other units so there is a chance that newer models are better suited for low imp cans.


----------



## fallow81

Finally...after some time with HD800 and Woo 2 - I decided to sell this great (it really is) amp.

 Sources to test - to have different sources: 

 *) EMU 1212m
 *) Metronome Technologie C1A DAC 
 *) iRiver H340

 Tubes tested on Woo 2: 
 *) Mullard E88CC BVA 60's, Electro-Harmonix 6922, Philips JAN 6922, Voshod 6N1P-EW
 *) GE 6AS7GA, TungSol 5998
 *) IEC 6V4, Amperex Bugle Boys EZ80, Telefunken EZ80

 From the first impression, it was just better than good maybe instead of I've expected better dynamics and power. 
 Transparency, precision, 3D imaging was anyway better than good on Woo2 but the lacks of dynamics,
 bas impact was not acceptable for me. Im not a basshead btw. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I was a K701 lover).

 The rescue is another OTL amplifier which is in development stage still. 
 It is I think totally unknown on headfi polish project WBA Sensauris. It will be available in a few months in audiophile chasis etc.

 It's like Zana Deux 6C33C based amplifier but with ECC88 as driver. Rectifers are not implemented as tubes but as transistors like in Zana Deux Transformer version.
 But it is still OTL amp.

 Outpout power of Zana Deux is L/H 650 mW for 300Ohm, Sensauris has around 800mW for 300Ohm
 and for 32Ohm Zana Deux gives 500mW and Sensauris also 500mW.

 For me it has all Woo 2 abilities of imaging plus much better dynamics and ability to driver headphones better, with better precision.

 6C33C power tube can have almost 5 times stronger anode current than 6080/5998.

 Im using as driver there Siemens E288CC or Philips Miniwatt SQ E88CC.


----------



## Aethelred

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *fallow81* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally...after some time with HD800 and Woo 2 - 
 Tubes tested on Woo 2: 
 *) Mullard E88CC BVA 60's, Electro-Harmonix 6922, Philips JAN 6922, Voshod 6N1P-EW
 *) GE 6AS7GA, TungSol 5998
 *) IEC 6V4, Amperex Bugle Boys EZ80, Telefunken EZ80
_

 

Those E88CC tubes that you've tested are not the best concerning dynamic and speed/clarity. I think E88CC Siemens grey plate are the fastest/detailed ones and I really mean there is a large difference in E88CC family between tubes at least to my experience.


----------



## xenithon

Quote:


 Oh and I think design of Woo either was or is constantly changing cause last night I've open mine and looks a little different than other units so there is a chance that newer models are better suited for low imp cans. 
 

There were three major changes implemented
 - early 2008, change of rectifier to the EZ80 which has a higher output current than the 6X4; improving power supply
 - late 2008, a redesign of power supply to make it much more powerful. This was the change that made the WA2 very flexible and equally adept at powering low and high impedance headphones
 -mid 2009, a change primarily impacting the preamp outs, increasing their drive.

 Cheers
 X


----------



## fallow81

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Aethelred* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Those E88CC tubes that you've tested are not the best concerning dynamic and speed/clarity. I think E88CC Siemens grey plate are the fastest/detailed ones and I really mean there is a large difference in E88CC family between tubes at least to my experience._

 

That doesn't chagne the fact Woo 2 on Electro Harmonix 6922 was way much weaker (in driving headphones good context) than WBA Sensauris on the same Electro Harmonix Gold 6922. It was pretty good noticable with HD800 and even black on white for a blind man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with 32Ohms Grados.


----------



## Palpatine

Simply awesome...the WA 2 is on my list...and black too. Gorgeous.


----------



## adsmithy

Can anyone comment on how good it is as a pre-amp?


----------



## LeTiger

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adsmithy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone comment on how good it is as a pre-amp?_

 

I would likewise be curious as to it's pre-amp abilities

 On the fence with whether to go Solid State with a Benchmark Dac1-Pre, or to support the Woo and get this as a Pre-amp for my speaker setup (something tells me that the Woo Would be a better choice than the Benchmark for straight headphone listening? I may be wrong)

 I haven't found info in searches of other threads, so comments would be most appreciated,


----------



## amjr

Hello!

 I'm planning to order WooAudio 2 but I'm wondering should I order "maxed out" version.

 I would like to get some opinions on the upgrades...

 - Blackgate capacitor-upgrade? What's your experience?

 - Attenuator upgrader and teflon mounting for tubes. Increased usability is mainly the reason I guess?

 - The main thing - tube upgrades. Have you compared default-tubes with upgraded ones? How's the difference?


 WooAudio 2 would be driving my HD-650 headphones and input signal is coming from iMac via cambridge audio's dacmagic DAC (optical cable in order to isolate computer electrically from audio stuff).


----------



## Aethelred

I, on the other hand cannot comment on normal WA2 but judging on my previous experience caps upgrade really worth taken, I'm not sure about stepped attenuator - I think it might be 10-15% improvement or maybe less. Teflon sockets for tubes - they have bad reputation I do not have them, lots of tube rolling and no problems so far. Tubes - absolutely must have.
 Be aware if you do not have experience with tube rolling, results can be unpredictable. What it means you can pay 100$ for Telefunken E88CC and (if you get real one) you might not like the changes. Read a bit first about tube character. Driver tubes ( 6jd8 family ) very audible improvement and sound tuning. If you looking for more detail - go for Telefunken E88CC/Siemens or VALVO Hamburg factory, if you looking for body and midrange - Amperex/Valvo 50s-early 60s.
 Power tubes : Tung SOl/CHatham 5998 - best to my taste - great balance/detail and power. Tung SOl 7236 - kind of bright ( not really but lacking warmth) and detail slightly vague comparing to 5998. 6080 tubes are somewhere in between.
 EZ80 - rectifier - I like Telefunken EZ80 but Valvo from Hamburg are not far behind. Mullards are very recommended to give more body to the sound. I cannot say that Rectifier upgrade is absolutely essential. I can hear the difference but I think if you use anything NOS/decent production you will be fine as long as you upgrade power and driving tubes.


----------



## Henerenry

This is posted on the woo thread, but I suppose it also belongs here as well.

 I may create a seperate thread at a later date to consolidate all my findings with the amp.

 "Ok, I've had about 8 hours with my wa2 now. Its fully upgraded except for teflon tube sockets.

 I'm not using the upgraded tubes at the moment.

 Impressions thus far are mixed.

 Ms-pro (bowls/jumbo pads)
 Being my first tube amp, I can immediately hear the colouration in the ms-pro, vs without the amp. It sounds more "effortless," but, its definately different, it is most evident in the vocals, I don't know whether or not I "like" the sound yet. 

 Detail and seperation seem improved it and the increase in bass adds body to the sound. It has also removed the metalic harsheness that I attribute to the STX.

 Soundstage seems to have widened and become deeper. I'm not sure how much of this is due to the jumbo pads or the amp itself. Positioning is still "not the best" but I attribute that to the can itself.

 Overall the sound is definately improved.

 DT880 (250)
 Wow, the improvement in this can is much more pronounced. Versus the headphone out on the STX there is no comparison. Straight out of the STX the 880 gets basically no head time. The sound to me is awful. Its tinny and thin, it lacks in all departments, resolution is still there though... although its portrayal is poor.

 With the amp, everything improves, lots of body, that nice "lush" midrange. Detail is improved though this is probably further highlighted by the great improvement in seperation. Bass is amazing (almost too much at first!), it adds so much body and weight to the sound.

 I cant sense the colouration that I can with the ms-pro, perhaps because the improvement is so great. Comparing it to my home reciever's headphone out, its "closer" than when used versus the stock stx headphone out. However, I'd say bass is better, it seems to have better seperation which gives the sensation that it extends higher. BUT the biggest difference between this and my home reciever is the lack of noise in the wa2. Its almost dead silent.

 Other notes:

 I plan to put a couple of weeks on the stock driver tubes before I change them. This is so I can get used to the "tube" sound, it will give me a greater reference point and appreciation for any change to the tube combo I may make later, it will also help burn in the caps....

 Next on the list is a new dac.

 Conclusions for now:

 I'm very happy with the performance of the amp, and they make my dt880 my favourite can, where as they used to get no headtime compared to my ms-pro.

 The performance with the ms-pro has me undecided, I can't determine whether or not I like the different tonality in the vocal range, though I am glad that it has removed the overly metalic and harsh tone running from the stx output.

 I'm very happy so far, and hopefully it just improves from here. Thanks to my wonderful girlfriend for buying me such a wonderful peice of equipment."


----------



## Drag0n

Seems like i cant find anything better than "Sounds good" for an answer to whether the WA2 sounds good as a PreAmp for a speaker-based system.
 Alot of preamps sound merely "good", but is it up to Bryston, Cary, Classe, preamps in the $2000 - $6000 level of sound, or is it more like Rotel, Cambridge, Adcom, NAD, level of sound?
 I know the headphone side of the amp is great, but has anyone really compared it to anything really good that can ascertain some kind of a level of performance for this thing?
 And is that the maxxed version, or stock?

 Which is again another question thats asked alot and i never seem to see a satisfactory answer for. Yes theres answers, but not really.
 Besides saying to ask Jack,...Has anyone truly heard the WA2 compared to modded or maxxed versions? The darn blackgates are expensive as heck, so is it a major difference, or you hear some difference and for that marginal amount you dont mind paying an extra $200 - 300 for it?

 And please, i dont want another 20 people saying, it sounds good. 
 If you dont have a real answer, then really we have heard enough people give blah answers.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drag0n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems like i cant find anything better than "Sounds good" for an answer to whether the WA2 sounds good as a PreAmp for a speaker-based system.
 Alot of preamps sound merely "good", but is it up to Bryston, Cary, Classe, preamps in the $2000 - $6000 level of sound, or is it more like Rotel, Cambridge, Adcom, NAD, level of sound?
 I know the headphone side of the amp is great, but has anyone really compared it to anything really good that can ascertain some kind of a level of performance for this thing?
 And is that the maxxed version, or stock?

 Which is again another question thats asked alot and i never seem to see a satisfactory answer for. Yes theres answers, but not really.
 Besides saying to ask Jack,...Has anyone truly heard the WA2 compared to modded or maxxed versions? The darn blackgates are expensive as heck, so is it a major difference, or you hear some difference and for that marginal amount you dont mind paying an extra $200 - 300 for it?

 And please, i dont want another 20 people saying, it sounds good. 
 If you dont have a real answer, then really we have heard enough people give blah answers.




_

 

For any headphone amp, the preamp ability it is already there. All you need to do is redirect the signal. It is almost stupid for a hight end headphone amp can't not be used as preamp. What a wast of money!


----------



## Drag0n

Some headphone amps sound totally different than the preamp outputs.
 Skylab bought a Cary, and the headphone section is different sound than the preamp section. You can read about it in the highend forum.


----------



## Skylab

That is for sure - the Cary is phenomenal as a preamp, and not very impressive as a headphone amp. They are different functions.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is for sure - the Cary is phenomenal as a preamp, and not very impressive as a headphone amp. They are different functions._

 

That's what I thought. Because I don't think Cary thought about someone will listen this full time as headphone amp. When they designed this back then, they headphone thing was not catching up yet.


----------



## Henerenry

Ok, I thought I'd chime in again, after your query I decided to try the WA2 as a preamp. I must add, I have had no experience with preamps before, but I hope that this at least helps.

 Also, the amp has blackgates which are probably not yet burnt in, and only running the stock tube compliment. Amp and tubes have about 25-30 hours on them.

 Order is, FLAC->STX->WA2->Yamaha rx-v995->infinity bookshelfs.

 I have an active sub, but it doesnt seem to work, so its out for the comparison.

 My impressions of the system minus the WA2 are as followed:
 I really love my little infinity bookshelf speakers. They have a lovely tweeter, treble has a lovely sparkle and plenty of air, leading to nice upper end detail and seperation, they also lack harshness, at least to my ears.

 Mid's have a nice tonality, although, as the mid bass is quite poor, it lacks a certain amount of weight and can be quite thin.

 Carrying on from this, these bookshelves are pretty bad in the mid bass department, normally I have the high-cut on my sub quite high to make up for it. There is a distinct lack of snap to drums for example.

 Impressions with the WA2:
 Firstly, no noise is introduced by the introduction of the WA2, very nice.

 I do find however, to match volume (by ear only) I have to have the amp much louder, while on the WA2 I only listen to headphones on about 11 o'clock I'm pretty much all the way around on the when connected to my speaker system. The amp itself also has to be played much louder to achieve a similar volume comparitively.

 Those quibbles out of the way, there is a positively audible difference to the sound. Sound stage for example has increased and is wider than without the WA2. Despite the need to play at increased volumes, I can detect no distortion or clipping when reaching intolerable levels.

 Highs are similar, but they seem less impressive than without the WA2, but thats only because the performance in the rest of the frequency range is so much improved.

 Carrying on from above, the midrange is now much better, vocals have a lot more "breath" behind them, where before they could be a bit thin, they actually sound like they have body and are being generated from a chest cavity. I guess I would say they are more "natural."

 Mid bass is also improved, the speakers seem to play lower, or at least lower more convincingly. However they still aren't great or realistically even good, the tiny drivers can only do so much, bookshelves can only do so much.

 Final Thoughts:
 Its nice to know that the WA2 works well as a preamp. I suppose I should stress that the improvements aren't huge, but they are noticable at least to me. I also hear no noticable differences in detail and resolution. That is to say, I don't really hear details that I couldn't hear without the WA2 in the chain.

 Particularly pleasing is the effect on the mids, vocals are much stronger and engaging with the inclusion of the WA2. I suppose this is the much sort after "naturalness" and "lushness" that people talk of when they talk of tubes. That being said, I don't find that it introduces a significant amount of "warmth."

 Any other queries please feel free to ask.

 Extra thoughts:
 So I've been listening to it for a while, with a brief switch back to my dt880's inbetween, and I've gotten the sub working.

 Although the dt880's are alot more resolving and highly detailed, the tone of the vocals on my speaker system is so sweet! So much so, that I am at least at the moment prefering them to my dt880. :O

 Also, I've noticed that the speakers are doing a better job of filling out the room.

 I'll be the first to say that the sub (in my room at least) its rather bloated and flabby. The WA2 doesnt fix these attributes, but bass has increased, I found that I had to cut it a bit lower and turn down the volume of it a couple of notches. Keep in mind though that testing was only 5 or so minutes.

 If it weren't for the people I share my house with and the awkward layout of my room, I have to say, that going back to the speaker game is pretty damn tempting, how much the WA2 has to do with that I dont know, but its definately helping.


----------



## oldwine

I just got my WA2 from another head-fier in here, what i find the first thing is, hot!!!!! it generates lots of heat after turning on for about half hour. Is it normal??
   
  Bos my last amp, Audiotailor's Jade virtually no heat, just a bit warm only. Of course, i know the no. of tubes used are different (2 vs 6), but i never think WA2 will generate such heat at all.
   
  I have rolled the tubes to RCA 6AS7G with Amperex E88CC, and i keep the EZ80 as stock at this moment.


----------



## rich.no

Quote:


oldwine said:


> I just got my WA2 from another head-fier in here, what i find the first thing is, hot!!!!! it generates lots of heat after turning on for about half hour. Is it normal??



   
  Mine never gets hot, just warm. The tubes are warmer than the chassis. I have a stock WA2 from March 2010.


----------



## Thaddy

Time to bump this thread.  I placed an order for a WA2 last week and couldn't believe it when Jack quoted me with a build time of one week!  The WA2 seems to be shipping with some pretty cheap tubes these days, so I went ahead and ordered some of the more popular power/preamp tubes for this amp (plus, tube rolling is too fun to stick with the stock tubes):
   
  Tung Sol 5998
  Sylvania 6DJ8
  Amperex Holland EZ80
   
  Of course, I can't just stop there, so some additional reading put a few more power tubes on my list to buy:
  Tung Sol 7236's
  Sylvania 7236
  RCA black plate 6AS7G
   
  It was a pretty close race between the WA2 and WA SE, but in the end I decided the more fluid and warm WA2 and it's 4 inputs and preamp output would be a better match with my HD-650's.  Jack agreed


----------



## Skylab

The GEC A1834/6AS7G's sound marvelous in the WA2, as do the Mullard CV2492 in place of the 6922.  I think the WA2, with high impedance cans, is terrific.  It's amazing with the T1.


----------



## Thaddy

Wow, those would certainly put a large dent in my tube budget...


----------



## David.M

I have noticed that in some pictures of the Woo Audio 2, the volume pot is on the right side and the source selector is on the left side. Is this a preference thingy? Do people tell Jack to switch them around? Because if i ever do get this amp, I would prefer it to have the volume pot on the left side.
   
  and Thaddy, please post impressions of your WA2 with your Senn's once you receive this beautiful tank


----------



## oldwine

David.M,
   
  I have asked Jack about this on last month, see his reply in here.
   
  You may ask Jack to swap back it for you. I think he is ok for this little operation.


----------



## Thaddy

Well, my WA2 was delivered yesterday along with some Sylvania 7236's and JAN Phillips 6922's.  I'll be able to un-box everything and start burning it in Thursday night, can't wait!  The hard part is going to be finding an album to listen to and holding off on trying out the upgraded tubes I purchased.


----------



## Clayton SF

Say, Thaddy--is yers the stock WA2 or did you get the parts upgrade uption? The WA2 is a wonderful amp. Actually all
 Woos are wonderful. Congratulations.


----------



## Thaddy

I decided not to get the upgraded parts.  I'd rather spend that money on buying hordes of tubes  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Oh, and I just realized I posted in the general Woo Audio thread.  Head over there for my initial impressions.


----------



## Clayton SF

Hoards of tubes! Get 'em movin'! Get 'em out! I understand that!


----------



## Thaddy

I decided to swap in my JAN Phillips 6922's and Amperex Holland EZ80's while keeping the stock RCA 6080 power tubes in place.  Things have definitely tightened up a bit more in the low end, it's quite nice
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I can already tell 5 hours in that this amp is going to keep getting better and better.


----------



## Henerenry

I've rolled many 6922 tubes including phillips sq (hollands) and I have found that the JAN are still the best.
   
  The english mullards have a nice bass bloom, but they arent linear enough. The phillips sqs have a magical mid range vocal, are a bit more "spacious" but, they just arent linear enough, even though vocals sound a lot better, I find instruments, especially guitar, sounds just weird.
   
  I'm trying to chase down some orsam, or gec brown base 6as7g.


----------



## Skylab

I do prefer the JAN Sylvania 6922 over the JAN Philips.


----------



## Thaddy

Skylab, those are actually on my list.  I also have some Sylvania 6DJ8's that will be going in next.


----------



## Skylab

I actually prefer the Sylvania 6DJ8 over the 6922, so I will be interested in what you think of those.


----------



## Thaddy

Forget about waiting.  I just tossed the Tung Sol 5998's in along with the Sylvania 6DJ8's.  After an hour of just letting the amp run I tossed on the HD650's.  THIS is what I was expecting out of this amp.  Simple outstanding.  This tubes are much more accurate and detailed than the stock RCA 6080's, it's incredible.  This is fun


----------



## Skylab

Yup.  6080's have always been a disappointment to me.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Forget about waiting.  I just tossed the Tung Sol 5998's in along with the Sylvania 6DJ8's.  After an hour of just letting the amp run I tossed on the HD650's.  THIS is what I was expecting out of this amp.  Simple outstanding.  This tubes are much more accurate and detailed than the stock RCA 6080's, it's incredible.  This is fun


 

 I bet it's fun. Can you tell me what you are listening to. Thanks!


----------



## Thaddy

I have a few CD's that I know front and back, here's the rotation:
   
  Alice in Chains - Live Unplugged
  Dave Brubeck - Double Live from the USA & UK
  Dave Matthews Band - The Central Park Concert
  Nirvana - MTV Unplugged
  Tool - Aenima
  Tool - Salival
   
  Honestly, this is the best I've ever heard these CD's reproduced.  The 5998's are very impressive so far!


----------



## Clayton SF

Wow. I can only imagine what Tool sounds like with your new tube combination. Their sound would really give those phones a challenging workout. Probably make your WA2 glow in the dark. And I'm talking about the chassis here.


----------



## Thaddy

Yeah, Tool has some incredibly complex drum passages that are made even more difficult to reproduce accurately once you add in the layers of bass guitar.  I also have to say I'm quite happy with the PS Audio DL III DAC.  It seems to be very neutral and doesn't subtract anything from the recordings.  Jack said the DL III and WA2 paired together quite nicely.


----------



## Thaddy

A better pictures I snapped with my P&S.  I'm really enjoying listening to this amp open up!


----------



## Clayton SF

^ You lucky dawg, you! Those tubes are a beaut! Sexy dimples them plates got, yes they do.


----------



## Thaddy

Yeah, the Tung Sol's give off a very understated glow but deep down they're absolutely menacing!
   
  By the way, does anyone have experience with rolling the rectifier tubes in the WA2?  I kept the stock EI EZ80's in but I have a set of Amperex Holland EZ80's.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Yeah, the Tung Sol's give off a very understated glow but deep down they're absolutely menacing!
> 
> By the way, does anyone have experience with rolling the rectifier tubes in the WA2?  I kept the stock EI EZ80's in but I have a set of Amperex Holland EZ80's.


 

 I've rolled Philips Holland, and Valvo EZ80's as well as Mullard England EZ81's. The difference too subtle for me to notice. But perhaps with the Tung-Sol combo it may make a difference.


----------



## Skylab

I definitely think the Mullard EZ80 sounded better than the EI.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I definitely think the Mullard EZ80 sounded better than the EI.


 

 Yes, the Mullards certainly did sound better than the EI. I think my Valvos are fakes. I'm not certain but the logos look too perfect and both look exactly the same. Most NOS aren't that identical. Of course I'm no expert but I just thought it too perfect. Maybe that's why I can't the difference between the EI and the Valvo.


----------



## oldwine

I have rolled the stock EZ80 to RCA one, the improvement are more solid bass, and the most important, those are cheap!!!!
   
  BTW, i want to find the Tung Sol's 5998, or other 6080/7236's (like Mullard), but not find them on eBay, etc. anyone can give me some clue on setting them (reliable seller, of course)
   
  Thanks


----------



## mew001

JayG, did you ever update your experiences with the WA2 and HD800?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> I have rolled the stock EZ80 to RCA one, the improvement are more solid bass, and the most important, those are cheap!!!!
> 
> BTW, i want to find the Tung Sol's 5998, or other 6080/7236's (like Mullard), but not find them on eBay, etc. anyone can give me some clue on setting them (reliable seller, of course)
> 
> Thanks


 

 At last check, www.vacuumtubes.net had 5998's for $40 each.  I have always gotten great tubes from them, and I have ordered a lot from them, but another head-fier said he bought a pair that were pretty microphonic, FWIW.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





skylab said:


> At last check, www.vacuumtubes.net had 5998's for $40 each.  I have always gotten great tubes from them, and I have ordered a lot from them, but another head-fier said he bought a pair that were pretty microphonic, FWIW.


 

 Thanks for the link. Would you know the difference between the 5998 and the 5998A other than price? Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

The 5998A's I have seen are from GE, and are straight-bottle, and really look more like 6AS7GA's.  I would avoid these.  Hodigy got a 5998A from Tung-Sol that seems to basically be a 7236, but I have never seen one of those before, and I think they are more rare.  Best to stick with the 5998.


----------



## Thaddy

Skylab, have you listened to the Denon D5000's out of the WA2?  These are on my short list of headphones to buy as I'm looking for something with a bit more bottom end than the HD650's offer up.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Skylab, have you listened to the Denon D5000's out of the WA2?  These are on my short list of headphones to buy as I'm looking for something with a bit more bottom end than the HD650's offer up.


 
  ^ x2. Yes, I've been mulling over the D5000's as well. Polished looking phones them are too, yep. Lovely.


----------



## Skylab

No, for two reasons.  One, I only have the D7000, not the 5000.  But moreover, the WA2 is not the right amp for the low-impedance Denons.  WA6 is a much better choice for the Denons.  I use my WA2 with the Beyer T1, and with those, it's spectacular.


----------



## Thaddy

That's what I was afraid to hear.  I'm not sure if I'm crazy or just forgetting what my old HD650's used to sound like, but I feel like a lot of the low end is gone.  They seem a bit more forward in the mid section and lacking some of the bass impact that I recall.  Based purely on FR graphs, it looks like the T1's will have what I need, just at three times the cost of the HD 650's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    Hey, at least if you order them from Jack you get a free headphone stand!


----------



## Clayton SF

If the Denon D5000 is rated at 25 ohms and the WA2 has a range of 25-600 ohms, why is it not the right amp for low-impedance Denons?


----------



## Skylab

This has been covered quite a bit, but the WA2 is output transformer less. As such, it will have a higher output impedance than most SS amps, or transformer-coupled tube amps like the WA6. I don't see that Woo has published a spec for the output impedance of the WA2, but in an OTL amp the output impedance is determined by the output tube, since it drives the output directly. Much of the time, OTL output impedances are 50ohms plus, and this will mean there won't be a good damping factor for a 25 ohm headphone. How much that matters sonically will vary by amp, headphone, and listener, but generally, it will result in somewhat looser bass, and potentially some treble roll-off. 

 That doesn't mean you won't like the results, just that from a purely technical perspective, it isn't ideal.


----------



## Clayton SF

I should have searched for those discussion points so thanks for recapping the information for me. I got the WA2 headphone impedance specs from Woo Audio's site.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I know the Woo site says 25-600 ohms. But without knowing the output impedance of the WA2, it's hard to know how "real" those numbers are. Like I said, just because it's not electrically ideal does not mean the results would be bad. However, I wouldn't go purchasing a pair of Denons specifically to use with the WA2, either.


----------



## hodgjy

Apparently, matched pairs now run $90 from these guys.  Supply and demand.  Once word got out, supply down, price up.
  
  I really love this tube, and at that price, it's still a decent deal.  If they get any higher, I might have to rethink things, but for now, I can live with that going rate.
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> At last check, www.vacuumtubes.net had 5998's for $40 each.


----------



## Thaddy

Man I purchased mine at the best possible time.  $46 for my matched pair


----------



## hodgjy

From Alex?
  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Man I purchased mine at the best possible time.  $46 for my matched pair


----------



## Thaddy

Yup!


----------



## Thaddy

Have any WA2 owners had the chance to listen to the HE-5LE's?  Any problems or issues with the OTL amp driving the 62 Ohm HE-5LE's?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, I know the Woo site says 25-600 ohms. But without knowing the output impedance of the WA2, it's hard to know how "real" those numbers are. Like I said, just because it's not electrically ideal does not mean the results would be bad. However, I wouldn't go purchasing a pair of Denons specifically to use with the WA2, either.


 

 Rob I believe the Denon are much better with the solid state amps than with the OTL. At least that is my experience with the CSP-2. The D7000 sound ok but it never reaches its full potentia, It also sounds better with the 6922 and not so great with the 6DJ8. But on SS amp the Denon has power and bass and totally unrestricted sound stage. Probably the Woo 6 would be much better for the Denon


----------



## hodgjy

Perhaps fire an email off to Jack Wu.  He seems to know what cans sound good on the Woos.  When I ordered my amp, he wanted to know specifically what cans I had in mind to make sure I was making the right choice.
  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Have any WA2 owners had the chance to listen to the HE-5LE's?  Any problems or issues with the OTL amp driving the 62 Ohm HE-5LE's?


----------



## Thaddy

One step ahead of you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I've also been scouring meet impression threads as well, but haven't been able to find a solid answer.
   
  edit:  Heard back from Jack.  Since the HE-5LE's are low efficiency headphones they will require a higher output from the amp, and he recommended I use the 7236 power tubes.  He didn't think the impedance would be an issue.


----------



## Skylab

I tried the HE-5LE after Thaddy asked - worked actually quite well, I thought, much better than I expected.  I actually like the HE-5LE quite a bit with the WA2.


----------



## diego

The WA 2 should have an output impedance of around 75 ohms with 6as7 tubes, 40 with 7236s and 32 with 5998s.
   
  I have an amp with the same output stage and I have tried it with my 60 ohm 701s and my 600 ohm 880s. I have also tried both headphones with my B22 as reference. In the case of the 701s the bass is not as deep or defined with the tube amp while there is little difference with the dt880s.
   
  I'm pretty sure the WA2 won't be competitive with a SS amp at low frecuencies driving the Denons. However, it's not that bad and you may still like it.


----------



## Thaddy

I just picked up a pair of RCA Blackplate 6AS7G's and Tung Sol 7236's.  If anyone is looking for Tung Sol 7236's, you better act quickly because they're getting extremely hard to find.  I might have picked up the last matched pair from Tube World.  I'd say that about round out my tube purchases for a while, time to start listening


----------



## herroyuihk

Quote:


thaddy said:


> I just picked up a pair of RCA Blackplate 6AS7G's and Tung Sol 7236's.  If anyone is looking for Tung Sol 7236's, you better act quickly because they're getting extremely hard to find.  I might have picked up the last matched pair from Tube World.  I'd say that about round out my tube purchases for a while, time to start listening


 

 Maybe....I should start to buy WE421 for my WA2 now
  Although they are extreme expensive, I have no choice.......


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I tried the HE-5LE after Thaddy asked - worked actually quite well, I thought, much better than I expected.  I actually like the HE-5LE quite a bit with the WA2.


 

 I actually like the HE-5 LE a lot with my WA6, and they seem a little easier to drive via the WA6 than the original HE-5 as well.  It could use a little more power, but it's very acceptable.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but if you're not, the WE 421A is just a rebadged Tung-Sol 5998.  Exact same tube except for the painted logo on it.
  
  Quote: 





herroyuihk said:


> Quote:
> 
> Maybe....I should start to buy WE421 for my WA2 now
> Although they are extreme expensive, I have no choice.......


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





herroyuihk said:


> Quote:
> 
> Maybe....I should start to buy WE421 for my WA2 now
> Although they are extreme expensive, I have no choice.......


 

 Like hodgjy said, *only *Tung Sol made the 5998.  No need to pay $TEXAS for the WE421.


----------



## Clayton SF

A friend of mine just mailed me a quad of NOS Mullard 6080 metal base from London. A pair of which I will use in my WA2. I don't know the year in which they were manufactured. Perhaps I will place the other pair in the 22, too. Anyway, I'm excited because I've never owned these before. Has anyone ever used them? They should arrive by the end of the month.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> A friend of mine just mailed me a quad of NOS Mullard 6080 metal base from London. A pair of which I will use in my WA2. I don't know the year in which they were manufactured. Perhaps I will place the other pair in the 22, too. Anyway, I'm excited because I've never owned these before. Has anyone ever used them? They should arrive by the end of the month.


 

 Hi Clayton,
   
  Don't know if it has changed, I have had my WA2 for a good while now, but some 6080 tubes do not fit in my WA2.  The base is a bit larger than the slot.  Again, don't know if Jack has widened them up.  I have a pair of Bendix & Tung Sol 6080WBs that I have wanted to roll into the WA2, but to no avail.  Somewhere in this thread, I believe x and myself were discussing it.
   
  EDIT- It's in this thread http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/393811/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations/45


----------



## Thaddy

Give them a shot!  I had all but ruled out 6080's since the stock RCA's were so bland, however I recently got a pair of Chatham/Tung Sol 6080's and have really been enjoying them.  They're a nice alternative to the 7236's and 5998/6AS7G's I have.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Hi Clayton,
> 
> Don't know if it has changed, I have had my WA2 for a good while now, but some 6080 tubes do not fit in my WA2.  The base is a bit larger than the slot.  Again, don't know if Jack has widened them up.  I have a pair of Bendix & Tung Sol 6080WBs that I have wanted to roll into the WA2, but to no avail.  Somewhere in this thread, I believe x and myself were discussing it.
> 
> EDIT- It's in this thread http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/393811/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations/45


 

 Thanks for the link. I shall see if I can utilize these Mullard 6080's when they arrive from London. Fingers x'd.
  
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Give them a shot!  I had all but ruled out 6080's since the stock RCA's were so bland, however I recently got a pair of Chatham/Tung Sol 6080's and have really been enjoying them.  They're a nice alternative to the 7236's and 5998/6AS7G's I have.


 

 I certainly will give them a shot if the do indeed fit. Maybe even if they're not 100% inserted they just may work. We shall see--hear.
   
  Thanks *HeatFan12 and Thaddy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


*


----------



## debitsohn

ugh... i wish my wa2 would get back to me already.


----------



## HeatFan12

Cheers Clayton,
   
  Let us know how they turn out....


----------



## Clayton SF

Well the Mullard 6080 / CV2984 black plate arrived. And they fit! Jack obviously widened the slot. I just put them in so I haven't had time to fire them up to burn them in. It is 32C / 90F in San Francisco and my apartment is too hot to turn on any of my amps so I am just chilling with some beer. Those tubes are really nice to look at cold as well.
   
  These tubes are NOS and only cost $17.50 each. I hope they sound as good or even better than my RCA 6AS7G black plate.


----------



## HeatFan12

Outstanding Clayton.  Congrats...Beautiful pics...And I see there is still room around the base.  I guess he did widen them up a little bit.  The base of my 6080s sit on top of the cut-out.  That WA2 is sure a beautiful sight.


----------



## Solude

Can anyone tell me what if anything is in the side housings?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Outstanding Clayton.  Congrats...Beautiful pics...And I see there is still room around the base.  I guess he did widen them up a little bit.  The base of my 6080s sit on top of the cut-out.  That WA2 is sure a beautiful sight.


 
   
  Thanks. Hey HeatFan12, what is your current WA2 setup--tubes, source, etc.? I'm listening to the Mullard 6080 right now and they're just slightly brittle in the highs which is to be expected for only being 2 hours old! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Other than that, I can tell right off that the over-all SQ is very musical and can only get better. It is a very nice shift from the RCA 6AS7G that I replaced--which I love.


----------



## diego

Power supply chokes most likely.
  
  Quote: 





solude said:


> Can anyone tell me what if anything is in the side housings?


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Thanks. Hey HeatFan12, what is your current WA2 setup--tubes, source, etc.? I'm listening to the Mullard 6080 right now and they're just slightly brittle in the highs which is to be expected for only being 2 hours old!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Hi Clayton,
   
  I like to put my WA2 to work.  lol...Great sound and versatility.  Using three inputs atm.  DacMagic, DAC-19DF & ipod w/ dock.  Pre-out is connected to my A5 speakers as well.
  ATM, my drivers and rectifiers have not changed for a while (Tungsram EZ80 & Tesla ECC88).  The Tesla were a bit bright but very detailed at first but have settled nicely.  Power tubes I rotate more often.  My favorite are Tung Sol 6AS7G.  They compliment the drivers nicely.  My sleeper power tubes that I use quite a bit are the Svet 6H13C.  They add a bit of warmth to the sound.  Lots of folks don't like them, but since I had purchased a quad a while back, I gave them a shot and stuck with them.  I use them frequently.  I am also a big fan of the RCA 6AS7G that you mentioned.
   
  As you stated, the WA2 is a very musical and toe tapping amp.  I looked back on this thread and I took delivery in Jan 2009.  I have plugged in low and high impedance cans and have never been disappointed....
   
  Here's a bad pic in this thread of the TS in action....lol......


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Hi Clayton,
> 
> I like to put my WA2 to work.  lol...Great sound and versatility.  Using three inputs atm.  DacMagic, DAC-19DF & ipod w/ dock.  Pre-out is connected to my A5 speakers as well.
> ATM, my drivers and rectifiers have not changed for a while (Tungsram EZ80 & Tesla ECC88).  The Tesla were a bit bright but very detailed at first but have settled nicely.  Power tubes I rotate more often.  My favorite are Tung Sol 6AS7G.  They compliment the drivers nicely.  My sleeper power tubes that I use quite a bit are the Svet 6H13C.  They add a bit of warmth to the sound.  Lots of folks don't like them, but since I had purchased a quad a while back, I gave them a shot and stuck with them.  I use them frequently.  I am also a big fan of the RCA 6AS7G that you mentioned.
> ...


 
   
  That's a great picture. A picture of a Woo in action in any form is good in my book!
   
  I just ordered a pair of Tung-Sol 6AS7G. They should be here this week. I've never tried the Tesla ECC88 or the Svet 6H13C--I shall keep that on my radar! Thanks!!!


----------



## oldwine

Clayton,
   
  Where can you find the Mullard 6080 at 17.50 each??? Give me some clue pls.
   
  PS. i just received the Tung-Sol 5998, great! more musical and i think i will enjoy the music more with these tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Well the Mullard 6080 / CV2984 black plate arrived. And they fit! Jack obviously widened the slot. I just put them in so I haven't had time to fire them up to burn them in. It is 32C / 90F in San Francisco and my apartment is too hot to turn on any of my amps so I am just chilling with some beer. Those tubes are really nice to look at cold as well.
> 
> These tubes are NOS and only cost $17.50 each. I hope they sound as good or even better than my RCA 6AS7G black plate.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Where can you find the Mullard 6080 at 17.50 each??? Give me some clue pls.


 
   
  Right here:
   
  http://langrex.co.uk/images/valves/6080%20Mullard.jpg
   
  10 GBP each.


----------



## dannie01

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Right here:
> 
> http://langrex.co.uk/images/valves/6080%20Mullard.jpg
> 
> 10 GBP each.


 

 Wow, what a beauty........................


----------



## is2us

Is my tube a goner?
   
  I just tried to put my new TS-7236 in my WA2 and felt something cracked, I took it out, and the small black plastic middle pin at the bottom of the tube broke and stayed in the socket. I managed to get it out of there, but the tube is now without it. Can I still use it? If I do, how will I know the direction of which to put it in the socket?
   
  Put back the 5998 pair...  really wanted to hear the 7236 tonight


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





is2us said:


> Is my tube a goner?
> 
> I just tried to put my new TS-7236 in my WA2 and felt something cracked, I took it out, and the small black plastic middle pin at the bottom of the tube broke and stayed in the socket. I managed to get it out of there, but the tube is now without it. Can I still use it? If I do, how will I know the direction of which to put it in the socket?
> 
> Put back the 5998 pair...  really wanted to hear the 7236 tonight


 

 I certainly don't know how to help you so that you can hear your 7236 tonight but you might want to check this out or call them and have them advise you on it.
   
  Go here: http://www.tubesandmore.com/
  and search for *P-STKY-1 *
   
 Octal Tube Keyway Replacement, package of 4  Do you have valuable octal type tubes that work fine except the keyway has been broken off the base? Fix it with this simple and inexpensive product. Simply clean the remainder of the broken keyway from the base and slip one of these on. Will stay on by itself, or you can use a dab of silicon to attach if you wish.


----------



## is2us

Thanks for the help Clayton SF, I'll try it.


----------



## debitsohn

not sure if its all in my head or if the tubes are now burned in, but i felt today was the first day my wa2 really wow'd me.  it was good before but today it was something  different.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> not sure if its all in my head or if the tubes are now burned in, but i felt today was the first day my wa2 really wow'd me.  it was good before but today it was something  different.


 

 WONDERFUL!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Being wow'd by anything is sweet when it happens--and even sweeter when it's by your favorite hp amp.


----------



## is2us

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> not sure if its all in my head or if the tubes are now burned in, but i felt today was the first day my wa2 really wow'd me.  it was good before but today it was something  different.


 

 Which tubes are you using?
   
  Once, after a surgery, I took a substantial dose of Oxycodone for the pain, and my system suddenly sounded like a six figure system.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





is2us said:


> Which tubes are you using?
> 
> Once, after a surgery, I took a substantial dose of Oxycodone for the pain, and my system suddenly sounded like a six figure system.


 

 jus using some free tubes clayton setn to me as a welcome gift. i am going to avoid the expensive habit of tube rolling as long as possible.... which probably isnt long.


----------



## avsBuddy

Hi guys, I'm new here (my first post) and actually new to headphone amps and new to Tubes. (3 NEWs!)
  That said, I'm interested in the WA2, because it's a headphone amp and a pre-amp - so I can justify a $1k price tag.
   
  I have a few questions though and hopefully you can give me some input.
   
  1) I have had Senn HD600 since their original release  - I like them. But eventually planning on buying close cup headphones for times when I don't want to disturb others, maybe D7000 - since it gets a lot of praise here. Would WA2 work for both?  Would I be better off with WA6? (I'd hate to spent WA2 amount on WA6SE since I'm loosing tube pre-amp feature)
  2) Prem Parts upgrade runs $400 - and it's BG caps only. It seems that Jack already uses quality caps in the amp - so do you feel it's still worth it?
  3) I like the feel of a quality volume knob action - would upgraded DACT CT2 improve anything over stock? Does it improve sound quality where there is a difference similar to impact of an interconnect? 
  4) Do you have hard time finding tubes for this amp? Are there brand new tubes in production or will I have to fight for people on eBay over dwindling supply?
   
   
  Thanks for your feedback.


----------



## Skylab

I can only answer 1 and 4.  The D7000 are not a goo match for the WA2, being very low impedance.  The WA2, being an OTL design, will be better with higher impedance headphones.  If you want a closed headphone, that is tough to find, oddly enough.  You might be best off with the WA6 or WA6SE.
   
  As for tubes - there are plenty of tubes.  Don't worry about that.


----------



## Thaddy

I decided to pass on the premium parts and DACT when ordering my WA2.  Instead, I spent that money on tubes.  I don't regret the decision at all and have been extremely happy with my WA2.  In your case you need to decide if those upgrade will be worth the cost relative to the other components in your system.


----------



## is2us

Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> 1) I have had Senn HD600 since their original release  - I like them. But eventually planning on buying close cup headphones for times when I don't want to disturb others, maybe D7000 - since it gets a lot of praise here. Would WA2 work for both?  Would I be better off with WA6? (I'd hate to spent WA2 amount on WA6SE since I'm loosing tube pre-amp feature)


 

 I had the same problem a few years back, when shared an office with my wife. I bought Etymotic Research ER4-S, in ear phones. She couldn't hear a thing and I'm enjoying them a lot till now. I also got a portable option.
  Didn't try them with the WA2 yet, but I think they will do well. I'll try it later this weekend and tell you how it sounds.


----------



## Eee Pee

I am making this choice right now as well.  I think I'll have a hard time knowing I could have had better parts in the amp than the standard version, even if the sonic differences are minor.  Like buying a car with the smaller engine, there will be that day when you want more power, and you could have had it, but chose not to go for it.  I've been there, and swapped engines.  
   
  I'm still trying to talk myself into the maxxed out WA2 over the standard version... I'm almost there!


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> I am making this choice right now as well.  I think I'll have a hard time knowing I could have had better parts in the amp than the standard version, even if the sonic differences are minor.  Like buying a car with the smaller engine, there will be that day when you want more power, and you could have had it, but chose not to go for it.  I've been there, and swapped engines.
> 
> I'm still trying to talk myself into the maxxed out WA2 over the standard version... I'm almost there!


 

 LOL....I know that feeling.  I went with the upgrade package, but no stepped attenuator when I purchased mine.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  @Clayton....How are the TS 6AS7G treating you?


----------



## StanT

I've had my Wa2 for 2 weeks now, so I'm hardly an expert.
   
  I opted for the Blackgates simply to avoid second guessing myself in the future. I seriously doubt there is a $400 dollar difference; but didn't want to wonder about it.
   
  Some people love stepped attenuators, some hate em. I'm forever tweaking the volume in 1 or 2° increments. For me, the range of min volume to max volume is 30° or so. A stepped attenuator would have 3 or 4 stops in that range and would drive me crazy.
   
  Rectifier tubes for the Wa2 are cheap.
   
  There are a few threads on power tubes. Most of the preferred tubes are going in the $45-50@ range. I found the advice accurate.
   
  Driver tubes seem to be a boutique item, these days. Again, the advice threads are accurate, though the audible difference between a $50 pair and a $200 pair is pretty trivial.
  In any case, the quantity of NOS tubes is not increasing. When you decide what you like, I'd buy spares.


----------



## avsBuddy

Great information guys.
   
  So stepped attenuator will actually have less volume steps than a standard one? Really ? So what's the benefit for the upgraded volume pot.
   
  As far as BG upgrade, from what I can tell Jack already uses high quality caps in the WA2 (Rubycon made Black Gates and Jack uses their caps by default), that's why I'm wondering what people think Premium upgrade brought to the table. It doesn't look like anybody had a chance to listen before and after and compare. I understand - by the time you pay for shipping back and forth - you already spend $80.
   
  I also decided that if I go with Woo amps, I won't do WBT rca socket upgrade - looked online and some people doubt that they bring any performance improvement. Some even go as far and say they are more brittle.
   
  The reason I was leaning towards WA2 because it's sort of an exotic amp - all tubes. Seems that WA6 have more SS sound - so might as well get a good quality SS amp - no fiddling with tubes.
   
  So no one still producing driver tubes - isn't it a worry to rely on NOS availability then? What about tubes for WA6?


----------



## Skylab

Yes, there are people producing the driver tubes. There are 6922's from China and Russia. It's not a problem.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> LOL....I know that feeling.  I went with the upgrade package, but no stepped attenuator when I purchased mine.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I went with the upgrade package and the stepped attenuator for the WA2. Now I don't have to think about whether I should've anymore. The WA2 is now used primarily for stereo DVD/Netflix when I don't want to blast my downstairs neighbor.
   
  HeatFan12--The TS 6AS7G are fantastic. Thanks Double F. Since I placed them in my WA22 I haven't swapped em out at all. The RCAs are a little smoother and almost lusher sounding than the TS but the TS are definitely more defined but still have that warm tube sound compared to the stock GEs.


----------



## StanT

Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> So stepped attenuator will actually have less volume steps than a standard one? Really ? So what's the benefit for the upgraded volume pot.
> 
> As far as BG upgrade, from what I can tell Jack already uses high quality caps in the WA2 (Rubycon made Black Gates and Jack uses their caps by default), that's why I'm wondering what people think Premium upgrade brought to the table. It doesn't look like anybody had a chance to listen before and after and compare. I understand - by the time you pay for shipping back and forth - you already spend $80.
> 
> ...


 

 The standard attenuator has infinite adjustment, but isn't necessarily very accurate across both channels. The stepped attenuator has has 23 finite stops, but much more precision across the channels. Just a matter of which is going to irritate you more. I'm sure there is a measurable difference in my standard attenuator; but it is inaudible to me.
   
  All of the tubes have current Chinese and Russian production. The best sounding ones are subjective; but seem to be NOS. High end NOS 6922 comparison is best done as a spectator sport, though you can get very nice tubes in the $50/pair ballpark.


----------



## RTF

Sorry if this has been asked already but being an OTL design how does the WA2 handle low impedance cans like grados and ultrasones?


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





rtf said:


> Sorry if this has been asked already but being an OTL design how does the WA2 handle low impedance cans like grados and ultrasones?


 

 Hello RFT,
   
  The WA2 does not follow the usual OTL = high impedance phone only cycle.  In this thread, post #96 (pg7), I talked about when I was using them with low impedance phones.  I use from Denons to Senns, Grados, Ultrasones and it drives them beautifully.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> Hello RFT,
> 
> The WA2 does not follow the usual OTL = high impedance phone only cycle.  In this thread, post #96 (pg7), I talked about when I was using them with low impedance phones.  I use from Denons to Senns, Grados, Ultrasones and it drives them beautifully.
> 
> Cheers!


 







  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I (and my wallet) didn't need to hear that!


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





			
				MacedonianHero said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LOL, MH....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Towards the beginning of this thread, I noticed that right off the bat.  Post #96 (that I stated above), was when I first plugged in my AH-D5000s and was very, very surprised that it drove them with authority.  I believe in January will make two years since I received the WA2 and funny thing is, I use it more with low impedance cans than with my Beyers and Senns...Go figure...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> LOL, MH....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Cool...thanks for the info (I think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I just assumed it being an OTL that it really only excelled at higher impedance cans.
   
  Right back at you -->


----------



## RTF

yah thanks HeatFan12 exactly what I wanted to know


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rtf said:


> yah thanks HeatFan12 exactly what I wanted to know


 


 LoL..first his Heat take Chris Bosh from my Raptors and now this.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> LoL..first his Heat take Chris Bosh from my Raptors and now this.


 


 LOL....Good one....And he has been the most productive one so far.  He has a solid all around game......Can't wait for opening night in Boston on 10-26-10...
   
   
  You are welcome RTF....Solid amp that WA2...Throw in 4 inputs a pre-out, great customer service and it is a winner...


----------



## oldwine

I have a Sony SA5000 also, which is 70ohm only, but they work flawlessly with WA2. The detailed signature of SA5000, with the tube sound of WA2, makes good balance and sounds great!!
   
  In some extent, they work even more better that DT880/600 and K702


----------



## avsBuddy

It's good to know there people are able to drive low impedance headphones with WA2. But you guys think that Black Gate upgrade is not absolutely necessary with WA2? I'm already stretching my budget if I go with WA2 - never thought I would spend $1k+ on a head amp. WA2 makes price easier to swallow because it's also a pre-amp. Did anyone ask to only partial Black Gate upgrade for coupling caps?
   
  Now I need to decide whether I want the stepped attenuator, the precision balance between channel is certainly a plus - but I'm not sure how this volume pot works in practice since I've never had A/V equipment with it. Does it jump between each volume level, kind of like digital volume on a PC? Does it click, or rotate smoothly. $215 is a big chunk of change for a volume pot - what default Alps pots Woo Audio uses in their amps? Alps supposed to be pretty good. But then again if DACT CT2 does a better job, than I would pay the price for a long term enjoyment.
   
  Decisions, decisions...


----------



## avsBuddy

Decided against Black Cap upgrade - seems to me W2 already has high quality caps in place. Black Gates I think made sense when they were commonly available, heck my Rotel RCD991AE has them all over. But seem BG now are just like NOS tubes - expensive because they are rare. Now I just need to decide whether I need DACT attenuator and Teflon sockets.
   
  By the way - since WA2 is transformer-less - what is in the 3 aluminum blocks? I looked at the inside pictures of the WA2 and don't see any leads going there... ?


----------



## herroyuihk

In this morning, I bid another a few Tungsol 5998s in eBay.
  I found they are all  "TOP GETTER"  type 5998
  However, I realize most WE 421a are  "CLEAR TOP and BOTTOM GETTER"  type, and I hardly found this type of 5998
 So I don't think you can get the exactly same sound of we421a from Tungsol 5998 (struture are not totally the same)
  According to this reason, If I can't get real good sound from this morning's bid, I will go to try WE421a later.
  PS: only tube I get good sound is tungsol 7236 from tubeworld.com.....However, it sold out now.
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Like hodgjy said, *only *Tung Sol made the 5998.  No need to pay $TEXAS for the WE421.


----------



## Skylab

I have some top getter 5998's.  I don't detect that they sound any different from the bottom getter ones.


----------



## avsBuddy

What tube do 5998, 7236 and WE 421a replace on WA2? I'm a vacuum noobie and totally lost as to how one figures what other tube type can be used as a replacement for the stock.


----------



## Skylab

They can all be used in place of the power tube,the 6AS7G.


----------



## avsBuddy

Quote: 





skylab said:


> They can all be used in place of the power tube,the 6AS7G.


 
  Yes, I realize that, but how do you figure it out - is there a chart that shows all compatible tube? Looking from an outside world it seems strange that multiple nomenclatures can be substituted for each other.


----------



## Skylab

The only way to "figure it out" is by doing things like reading head-fi, although I will caution you that where tube substitution is concerned, you should only use tubes that the actual manufacturer of the amp says are OK to use.  In this case, Woo has sold the 5998 and the 7236 tubes as "upgrades" to the 6AS7G in its amps, so those are OK.


----------



## avsBuddy

I think Woo should list all types of tubes that are compatible for each amp. This would go a long way into helping people like me who only saw tubes when they were still walking on all four. By the way, do Woo Audio supplies manual with their amps? One thing I noticed is that Woo doesn't use what seems more common tubes like KT88 and EL...


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> I think Woo should list all types of tubes that are compatible for each amp. This would go a long way into helping people like me who only saw tubes when they were still walking on all four. By the way, do Woo Audio supplies manual with their amps? One thing I noticed is that Woo doesn't use what seems more common tubes like KT88 and EL...


 


 I talked to Jack about that a few weeks ago.  He said he was working on putting the lists together.


----------



## Rizlaw

Just got my fully maxed out WA2 (including 7236 and 7308 tubes from Jack) yesterday. From the 2009 photos posted in this thread, it looks like Jack has reversed the position of the volume and input selector controls:



EDIT 12/6/2010:

Just got an email from Jack Monday morning confirming that the WA2 chassis has been changed and the Woo website stock photos need to be updated.

For those that might be interested in the latest Woo wiring of the WA2's I offer, with apologies for the poor quality photo, the inside view:



Thanks, HeadFan12 and Clayton SF.


----------



## HeatFan12

^^^
  Yep, mine are the other way around.  Congrats on your purchase......


----------



## Clayton SF

Congratulations, Rizlaw. Your fun has just begun and just in time for the Holidays, too. Great timing!


----------



## Henerenry

Quote: 





avsbuddy said:


> By the way - since WA2 is transformer-less - what is in the 3 aluminum blocks? I looked at the inside pictures of the WA2 and don't see any leads going there... ?


 

 If I had to guess it would be power transfomer in the middle, and chokes on either side.


----------



## Rizlaw

henerenry said:


> If I had to guess it would be power transfomer in the middle, and chokes on either side.







AVSBuddy, regarding your observation:


> pictures of the WA2 and don't see any leads going there... ?




 Like Henerenry said: choke - transformer - choke. But, if you look more closely at the pictures, you will notice two small angled oval cut outs in the chassis. Into those cut outs you will see wires from the left and right channel EZ80 Rectifier tube sockets leading up into the choke/transformer area. I hope that clarifies things for you.


----------



## avsBuddy

Now that you explained it, I see the leads to transformer and chocks. That makes sense - mystery solved. Is it me or did Jack cleaned up the internal layout of the WA2. Kind of looks empty, needs to have more tasty stuff emm, stuffed in there.  Thanks guys.


----------



## lukaskite

Hi everyone!
   
  Happy wa2 user finally came out of his shell. At first when i received it 5 months ago i was kind of disappointed but after a lot of burn in and upgrades (pc tweaks/transport/dac/aftermarket power cords/tubes) i can finally say it's a outstanding piece of gear. Just rest of your setup need to be up for the task and that cost a lot of money (actually spend on all upgrades 3000 usd, planned 1500...).
   
  Ps:
  If some are interested i can do a review of EZ80 rectifers as i have couple of pairs (siemens/telefunkens/mullards england and france/ei yugoslavia/tungsram/philips holland/brimar uk) and it's hard to find any info in the net about them.
   
  Ps2:
  Did i mentioned that this is very, very evil place


----------



## Skylab

Congrats, man. The WA2 is a sweet amp! And by all means, post your EZ80 thoughts!


----------



## lukaskite

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Congrats, man. The WA2 is a sweet amp! And by all means, post your EZ80 thoughts!


 


  Thanks!
   
  As for the ez80 review i'm still waiting for siemens and brimars to do it.
   
  I can only say that putting the right rectifier can bring woo to totally different level (especially in the 3D sound stage/resolution department).


----------



## oldwine

lukaskite,
   
  I also agree that the EZ80 will change the signature of WA2, i have changed the stock one to the RCA, which letting WA2 become more detail with dynamics.
   
  I also want to know the performance of other brands as well, please post your thoughts!!


----------



## lukaskite

EZ80 shoot-out...
   
  Some time ago i promised a review of couple woo 2 rectifiers. As all wa2 owners know it's hard to find any info on these so the only way to learn something is an old trick that's called "Buy and Try".
   
  For review purposes i decided to use Siemens E88cc/Tungsol 5998 combo for their neutral signature with rest of my gear.
   
  From worst to best place (in my opinion):
   
  10. Mullard made in Blackburn England (Amperex BB) EZ81/6ca4, D getter - THE WORST from the lot, completely lack of punch and dynamics, flat soundstage,makes music lifeless. Very disappointed and complete waste of money (payed 100 bucks for these...). BEWARE!!!.
   
  9. Telefunken EZ80/6v4 small O getter, made in W. Germany - Nice upper frequency, fast/clean but everything below 1khz is simply absent on these tubes, i could not find a good mach with any driver/power tubes i tried (the "best" was with 6as7g RCA with their low mids/upper bass bloat). Any tube below will be a better/cheaper choice.
   
  8. Tungsram EZ80, O getter, made in Hungary - These have a lot of mids/upper bass, high spectrum is recessed but sound isn't dark, they changed my DT880 to Sennheiser HD555 (no kidding), not to much deep bass either and everything lack focus/details, its like listening music from the well. Still liked them more than the two above but maybe its sentimental because HD555 where my first "audiophile" cans.
   
  7. Mullard yelow print EZ80 code +/- made by La Radiotechnique Charters (very often labeled as Valvo), O getter - The most common tube on ebay, now these have nice caramel like mids, highs are present but kind of fuzzy, good punch, soundstage is more on the sides and upfront compared to the rest (trademark of these tubes). But there is one major flaw: lack of deep bass (i think it ends around 50-40hz) so if you don't like/need deep bas (anyone?) then you can try them but in my opinion they're not worth 50 bucks or more (ebay).
   
  6. Siemens EZ80 made in Germany, O getter -  These sound kind like upgraded nr.8, there is more highs (it doesn't sound like from the well anymore) but still not enough in my taste, better lows too, everything is fuller and mids are on neutral side with added layer of sugar coating, less focused than nr.7 and below, nice tube but this "sugar coating" its like invisible wall separating me from the music so not much details here (on pair with nr.7). I felt that the sound signature (in mids) doubled Siemens E88cc and 5998 Tungsols (it was better after changing drivers to Amperex orange globe and power tubes to Gec 6as7g so maybe with different combinations of tubes they will mach). Worth checking out.
   
  5. Mullard EZ80 made in Blackburn England, D getter - Now things get interesting, these have the best mids from the lot (caramel like nr.7 but more sweet with a touch of magic),full body sound, soft highs but with great presence, big focused soundstage, a great tonal mach for woo so why 5th place?. Because it lack details and air (only nr.8 and nr.10 was worse it this regard), everything sound smooth and nice but after changing it to anything below you can hear how much music is "covered" by them. If your gear is super detailed and want to tame it then its a great choice but if you want "Mullard kind sound" without drawbacks check nr.1 below.
   
  4. Philips Miinwatt EZ80 made by M.B.L.E Mazda in Bruxelles (code Lxx), D getter - THE warmest and THE slowest of all (paired with 6as7g or 6080 it lack dynamics), sweet highs but cleaner with better definition than above. Very big laid back soundstage but with good details (again better than above tubes), great vocals, bass doesn't have a lot of quantity and punch but goes pretty deep,black background (comparable only to nr.1 and nr.3). Less focused soundstage than nr.5 or nr.7 (similar to nr.6) but for me they're too warm even with Siemens/Tungsol combo. Compared to Mullards they don't cover anything and are great for jazz in my opinion but i don't like warm sound very much. Hard to find.
   
  3. Philips Miinwatt EZ80 made by Phillips Sittard (+xx code), D getter - Sound of these is just like nr.4 above but less warm/more focused, with slightly more details/speed/punch. Recommended.
   
  2. Ei EZ80 made in Yugoslavia, O getter - Surprise yep 2th place i still cant believe that the first rectifiers i bought are almost the best of all. So what they have that other don't?. Best extension from top to bottom, great bass with punch an depth, very detailed, very fast transients, big soundstage,lots of air everywhere, neutral and with drive but not as clean as nr.4, nr.3 and nr.1. For me these tubes sharing similar sound signature with Telefunkens simply blow them out of the water. They're great for someone that think his woo is to laid back and need to bring some drive and speed with warm/slow sources (best mach with my former Dac Valab). But before someone decide to try them i have two pairs of these and to my surprise the second pair sounds much worse than the first, more like the Telefunken but less clean/focused, fuzzy sound, highs are dirty but still better lows than Teles (overall i would put them between nr.8 and nr.7). So if lucky you can get great tubes but if not then well you can leave them for a emergency (they're cheap as dirt so not much money loss).
   
  1. Brimar EZ80 England (labeled SEL Lornez and often labeled as GE), black plate, D getter - THE best of all, almost as detailed as Ei, tonally just like Mullards Blackburn BUT with no veil in mids and highs are the cleanest from all above. Best focused soundstage with great depth. The blackest background and even if they're are slightly dark sounding you can hear natural timbre of all instruments that simply wasn't there with any other rectifier i tried. With Gec's and Semens there my reference combination. They really bring woo to a totally different level. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!. 
   
  Well that's all folks. I don't have a gift for writing up reviews but still hope that someone out there will benefit from these information's.
   
  Cheers to you all!


----------



## Double F

Great post, The rectifier is a hard tube to crack. When I had my Woo 2 I liked the Mullards .  I really liked the RFT ez80, which were my rectifiers of choice in addition to being fairly cheap.


----------



## Clayton SF

Yes, great post. My favorite is the Mullard EZ81 D-getter that I got used (#10 on your list). It tested very strong even though its looks are absolutely sad, they are none the best for wear and sound absolutely wonderful. My hearing is obviously not as great as yours. I do have a few Mullard EZ80 (#5 on your list) but I haven't listened to those yet. They're still wrapped like little cigars. It has the old Mullard shield and it has "Foreign Made" stamped on the tube.


----------



## avsBuddy

Thanks for the great post. This adds lots of value to this thread going forward!


----------



## Aethelred

Do not forget about EZ80 RFT very intriguing tubes. They do everything correct and well balanced.Outstanding transparency too.


----------



## oldwine

Thanks for your efforts!!!
   
  May i ask anyone audited the cossor 6v4?? is it the oem of Mullard???


----------



## Clayton SF

This is NOT about the 6V4 but a warning about the 6X4.
  Jack had emailed that the 6X4 was used on the earlier WA2 and not on the current model.
   
*Oct.10, 2010:*
   
*Hello Jack,
 Can I use 6X4 rectifiers in my WA2? I see you used to use it in the WA2.*

_*--Yes, the earlier WA2 use 6X4. You cannot use it in your WA2. The EZ80, in fact, is better suited in this design.
 Jack
*_


----------



## landgreen

Don't know if this has been covered but what power cord are you WA2 owners using? I'm contemplating purchasing a WA2.
  Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Iron Lung Jellyfish for me.  I'm not really a power cord believer, but the ILJ is very well build, and cheap.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Iron Lung Jellyfish for me.  I'm not really a power cord believer, but the ILJ is very well build, and cheap.


 


  +1 for me.


----------



## MacedonianHero

I'm not either, but I did snag a 6ft Kimber PK14 for a great price.


----------



## oldwine

Thanks Clayton. In fact, 6v4 and ez80 are the SAME. as the tube box of the Cossor print out on the box.
   
  About 5 hr of burning in, i wonder is it the OEM of Mullard, as its vocal are v. smooth and nice! i am immersed in the voice of Cecilia Bartoli!!!
  
  Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> This is NOT about the 6V4 but a warning about the 6X4.
> Jack had emailed that the 6X4 was used on the earlier WA2 and not on the current model.
> 
> *Oct.10, 2010:*
> ...


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Thanks Clayton. In fact, 6v4 and ez80 are the SAME. as the tube box of the Cossor print out on the box.
> 
> About 5 hr of burning in, i wonder is it the OEM of Mullard, as its vocal are v. smooth and nice! i am immersed in the voice of Cecilia Bartoli!!!


 

 Ah, Cecilia and Cossor. Sounds like another opera! I love Cecilia on headphones. She can be such a clown.


----------



## ardilla

I just tried to put some cheap Sony earbuds into the WA2, and it sounded extremely good! Better than many mid-price cans I've heard. So Yuin PK1 is on the way. Big amp, small speakers )


----------



## ardilla

^  Yuin PK1 sounds fabulous on the WA2 )


----------



## MonkeyTennis

Hi Guys,

 I have been a reader of this forum for a number of years and have been inspired by many of your posts to buy myself some goodies. Took me ages to decide to pull the trigger but have just bought & received my WA2 and am very pleased with it.

 When I asked Jack if the black gate capacitor option was still available he said he had 1 silver unit built with black gates, but this would be the last one. This was somewhat of a dilemma for me as I had my heart set on a black model and had been thinking about it for over a year! However as the amp is all about sound and less about aesthetics I snapped up the very last new WA2 with the black gates.

 I have the stock tubes in right now although I did get all the upgrade tubes at the same time as buying the amp. Also went for the stepped attenuator. Will wait for the stock tubes to burn in (do they need to burn in?) and then I can have an upgrade to the other tubes and keep the stocks as spares 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am sure this has all been covered elsewhere but would be interested to know how long the black gates take to burn in - and what sonic changes I might expect to hear.
   
  Thanks


----------



## ardilla

what's your phones?


----------



## MonkeyTennis

I've got the HD650's, same as you I see from your sig. Source used is a Marantz CD6003, also got a DAC Magic.


----------



## ardilla

Great 
   
  I really like the HD650. Had the T1's and HD800 - but they were too bright for my ears, they are both tilted toward bright and analytical  (T1 being the better of them, more warmth). HD650 is a more complete headphone. 
   
  I run a SB touch thruogh a NOS dac and is very happy about it. NOS's are great  Especially for HP listening


----------



## MonkeyTennis

Yes I have been very happy with the HD650's. Had them for a bout 3 years now. Only just got a dedicated HP amp though. Not got into streaming, I had everything in iTunes but have gone back to CD's for now. Not entirely sure about the DACMagic, it tends to remove the feeling a bit to my ears for some music. Rock music is more upfront and fun straight out of the Marantz CD player but complex orchestral stuff benefits from the clarity and separation offered by the Cambridge DAC.


----------



## ardilla

[size=medium]What do you mean by _"... it tends to remove the feeling a bit to my ears .. "_ exactly?​[/size]


  Quote: 





monkeytennis said:


> Yes I have been very happy with the HD650's. Had them for a bout 3 years now. Only just got a dedicated HP amp though. Not got into streaming, I had everything in iTunes but have gone back to CD's for now. Not entirely sure about the DACMagic, it tends to remove the feeling a bit to my ears for some music. Rock music is more upfront and fun straight out of the Marantz CD player but complex orchestral stuff benefits from the clarity and separation offered by the Cambridge DAC.


----------



## MonkeyTennis

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> What do you mean by _"... it tends to remove the feeling a bit to my ears .. "_ exactly?​


 
   
  I suppose I mean that my emotional reaction is lessened in some way. Vocals sound a little thinner, not as textured, and everything is pushed back a bit in the sound stage and the sound stage is widened. For orchestral pieces it can be a good thing as there is more separation of instruments and more clarity, but for a well recorded drum kit and distorted guitars sort of stuff it seems to remove some of the "warmth" maybe, not sure really. Its not a huge difference, but depending in what mood I am in it does make a difference. It also creates a small drop in volume as well which makes switching between the 2 maybe a slightly imperfect test as I would need to notch up the volume a bit when I switch to the DAC, its quite a subtle volume difference, but again does make a difference. I guess the CD player produces a more intimate in your face soundstage, whereas the DACMagic is more "polite" and refined. I look forward to hearing all the changes as the amp burns in.
   
  The CD player is great and produces a very good cohesive sound and if I didn't already have the DAC (which I bought way before the CD player) then I wouldn't be making the comparison...


----------



## ardilla

I've got a very reasonably priced NOS (non oversampling dac) I think you would like  It's warmer sounding and less "digital/clinical" than any other dac I have heard, without loosing out on detail... I really love it, and use it with the WA2 every day. Also - it is less fatiguing to listen to (but not in any way dull and boring). I keep pushing it several threads beause it is a reminder than good doesn't necessary mean expensive. There are many other headfiers that feel the same about it. 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/559930/2000-budget-help-me-build-my-system-amp-pairing-questions#post_7564335


----------



## MonkeyTennis

Thanks for the tip on the NOS dac Ardilla. Been listening to the dacmagic without switching between it and the marantz and have been really enjoying it. With the WA2 settling in it's probably way too early to be thinking about swapping parts of the chain just yet. 

On an unrelated note I am looking for some closed cans that would be comparable to the HD650's if such a thing exists. Any ideas?


----------



## ardilla

Do you need closed cans with good isolation? Many closed cans doesn't really isolate that good anyway...


----------



## MonkeyTennis

yes good isolation is the reason I need them, not to isolate me, but to isolate others from any leaking noise. I ran my Klipsch IEM (obviously very good isolation) from the WA2 and it didn't sound horrible, but not great and plus I wonder if the low impedance could damage the amp as It shouldn't be run with no load, I wonder if a low load could be bad as well?


----------



## ardilla

You shouldn't worry so much 
   
  I can recomment the Yuin PK1 earbuds - I use them every day with the WA2  They have a pretty 650'ish sound sig. The Fostex T50RP are also good and 650-ish, and there are loads of modding options which will make them sound great FWIR.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





monkeytennis said:


> yes good isolation is the reason I need them, not to isolate me, but to isolate others from any leaking noise. I ran my Klipsch IEM (obviously very good isolation) from the WA2 and it didn't sound horrible, but not great and plus I wonder if the low impedance could damage the amp as It should be run with no load, I wonder if a low load could be bad as well?


 

 I asked Jack Wu about high and low impedance on the WA2 said he said that the WA2 is an OTL amp so high or low impedance headphones/IEMs will not harm the amp.


----------



## ardilla

Fostex T50RP - They sound very good even without mods, and are very unfatiguing and good for playing loud  Midrange is beautiful. Not very comfortable, though - but THIS would help
   
  Regarding the modsthis seems like a good post  
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/452404/just-listened-to-some-fostex-t50rps-today-wow/330#post_6998354
   
  Btw: *Denons *are closed, but leak heavily. Some Beyer's are good at isolation
   
  Professional *Sony *studio phones could be a good option 
  
  Quote: 





monkeytennis said:


> yes good isolation is the reason I need them, not to isolate me, but to isolate others from any leaking noise. I ran my Klipsch IEM (obviously very good isolation) from the WA2 and it didn't sound horrible, but not great and plus I wonder if the low impedance could damage the amp as It should be run with no load, I wonder if a low load could be bad as well?


----------



## MonkeyTennis

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> I asked Jack Wu about high and low impedance on the WA2 said he said that the WA2 is an OTL amp so high or low impedance headphones/IEMs will not harm the amp.


 

 Thanks Clayton, good to know.


----------



## MonkeyTennis

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> You shouldn't worry so much
> 
> I can recomment the Yuin PK1 earbuds - I use them every day with the WA2  They have a pretty 650'ish sound sig. The Fostex T50RP are also good and 650-ish, and there are loads of modding options which will make them sound great FWIR.


 


  RE: You shouldn't worry so much 
   
  I know I'm just a swell guy   problem is I want to listen late at night in bed when my missus is asleep, and when I wake her up with the HD650's she is not a happy bunny, and so then neither am I !  Thanks for the info I will look into these phones. Actually if there are any high impedence IEM's they would probably be ideal. Looking at reviews of the Yuin OK series, but not read great reviews so far.


----------



## ardilla

I bought the Yuin's because the reviews were great... btw - they are very comfortable, you can wear them in bed letting your head lie sideways on the pillow.
   
http://www.headfonia.com/high-end-earbuds-review/
   
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Head-Direct/Yuin/PK1/
   
  also
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/245855/another-yuin-pk-1-review
   
http://www.best-headphone-review.com/YuinPK1.html


----------



## guido

thread is completely derailed


----------



## Clayton SF

So I got a pair of Mullard 6080 (1970s) from ebay UK. They are so microphonic and hum away when used in my WA22 that even turning up the volume makes the 6080s resonate in my head & headphones. Very eerie sound. But get this: I removed them and placed them in my WA2 and no hum and hardly any microphonic action--unless I bang on the transformers (which I don't recommend). So I'm keeping those Mullards away from my WA22. The WA2 seems to be so forgiving with so-so tubes.


----------



## Aethelred

I have the same experience with WA2.I've tried a lot of tubes that were on the verge of being OK and no problem at all.


----------



## ardilla

So - what headphones are people using on their WA2?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> So - what headphones are people using on their WA2?


 

 Right now its the HD650. I am listening to Gabor Szabo-_*High Contrast*_.
  Happy Friday, ardilla!


----------



## MSSG

100% happy with Beyer T1 and my current tubes, Sylvania 7236 (Woo), Mullard CV2492 (NOS 1964) and Ei EZ80 (Stock)
   
  Have a nice weekend


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





mssg said:


> 100% happy with Beyer T1 and my current tubes, Sylvania 7236 (Woo), Mullard CV2492 (NOS 1964) and Ei EZ80 (Stock)
> Have a nice weekend


 

 Another happy T1 owner. I've got to get me a pair of those.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





mssg said:


> 100% happy with Beyer T1 and my current tubes, Sylvania 7236 (Woo), Mullard CV2492 (NOS 1964) and Ei EZ80 (Stock)
> 
> Have a nice weekend


 


  I regularly use this exact combination of tubes in my WA2 and also find it excellent with my T1.


----------



## ardilla

I bought the WA2 to drive my T1s. Unfortunately, I still  found the T1 too bright and sold them off.
   
  Got the HD650 - it plays very well on the WA2 - but I am following the LCD-2 or HE-500 discussions with interest


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> I bought the WA2 to drive my T1s. Unfortunately, I still  found the T1 too bright and sold them off.
> Got the HD650 - it plays very well on the WA2 - but I am following the LCD-2 or HE-500 discussions with interest


 
  Yes, the HD650 plays very very well with the WA2.


----------



## MSSG

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> I bought the WA2 to drive my T1s. Unfortunately, I still  found the T1 too bright and sold them off.
> 
> Got the HD650 - it plays very well on the WA2 - but I am following the LCD-2 or HE-500 discussions with interest


 

 Sorry to hear, did you try Mullard CV2492, in my ears it is a perfect combination that is very musical


----------



## MacedonianHero

mssg said:


> Sorry to hear, did you try Mullard CV2492, in my ears it is a perfect combination that is very musical




The CV2492s are great tubes for the WA2, but I didn't think they worked as well with the Lyr.


----------



## ardilla

Yup - tried them. Also got some Svetlanas (Black Plate 6N13S) that was recommended in this or a similar thread as "as warm as it got". I like them - but they didn't make my T1's unbright enough (however - I've got some sensitive ears) 
  Quote: 





mssg said:


> Sorry to hear, did you try Mullard CV2492, in my ears it is a perfect combination that is very musical


----------



## librarian

subscribed, better late... Happy WA2 owner since 2009 Use them with HD650, but just got a T1. Both are great with the WA2. For closed cans I use DT770/600 and DX1000. Though DX1000 isn't that high impedance (70 ohm) it a very good pairing with the WA2, infact I don't bother to listen to DX1000 on other amps than WA2...


----------



## Csericks

Quote: 





librarian said:


> Happy WA2 owner since 2009


 
  I am a WA2 owner since 9 this morning.  Sold my WA6 a couple of weeks ago.  Some report that "right out of the box" the sound is fantastic but for me the first hour or so was a bit rough.  Now, however, this amp is "ripening up" beautifully.  I think that this is going to be a long and satisfying love affair!


----------



## MacedonianHero

What tubes are you using?


----------



## Csericks

Mine shipped with JJ EZ81 (I was surprised that they were not some type of EZ80), JAN Phillips 6080WC, and Counterpoint 6DJ8.  I will spend time with the stock tubes before I roll.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





csericks said:


> Mine shipped with JJ EZ81 (I was surprised that they were not some type of EZ80), JAN Phillips 6080WC, and Counterpoint 6DJ8.  I will spend time with the stock tubes before I roll.


 


  I would look at upgrading the power tubes first (most affect on sound) then the driver tubes and finally the rectifier tubes. FWIW, my favourite WA2 tube setup was:
   
Power tubes:
  Tung-sol 5998 (not the 5998A tube which is only average) but good ones are hard to come by. Failing that, the Tung-sol or Sylvania 7236 tubes are quite good too. The GEC 6AS7 are highly rated power tubes too.
   
Driver tubes:
  Mullard CV2492s (but they tend to be microphonic) and Genalex Gold Lion E88CCs
   
Rectifier tubes:
  Mullard or Telefunken EZ80s.
   
  Have fun tube rolling. But the amp really came alive when I swapped out the stock 6080 tubes.


----------



## Csericks

Thanks, I look forward to the journey.


----------



## Draygonn

Congrats Csericks. The WA2 looks as good as it sounds. What color did you get? MH knows his way around the WA2, he broke mine in. Speaking of which, I believe we are near it's 1st birthday. To mark the occasion I am currently listening to YYZ


----------



## Csericks

Black


----------



## Rawrbington

black looks really good with the tubes all lit up in low light.
   
  its just like a black car,
  looks phenominal when clean.
  but you're gonna want to dust it often.
   
  search hi and low for a pair of Tung Sol 5998s.
  if a web site offers a phone number call them.  ask for used that test well or NOS.  you're gonna pay out the butt for NOS though.  Make sure the place has a return policy.
  i scored a PAIR of them used but still testing very good for 40$ last month.
  but make sure they have a good return policy.
  i've read of a few people getting those tubes and them already being microphonic or sounding bad


----------



## Draygonn

rawrbington said:


> black looks really good with the tubes all lit up in low light.



I love the reflection in this pic


----------



## Szadzik

Been a WA2 owner for some time now. Happy to see a thread dedicated to it.


----------



## librarian

macedonianhero said:


> What tubes are you using?



Power:Tung-sol 5998 (also went through rca and sylvania)
Driver:jan 6922 (stock) (just got mullards, buy find Them very noisy, guess they are defective)
Rectifier:international servicemaster 6v4/ez/80 (stock)


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





librarian said:


> Power:Tung-sol 5998 (also went through rca and sylvania)
> Driver:jan 6922 (stock) (just got mullards, buy find Them very noisy, guess they are defective)
> Rectifier:international servicemaster 6v4/ez/80 (stock)


 
   
  Yeah, finding a pair of good Mullards is tough. FWIW, I really liked the new issue Genalex Gold Lions too.


----------



## librarian

these were not even cheap... If it's normal to pay 100$ for defective Mullards, I'm through with Mullards 
   
  Maybe I should look into the Genalex Gold Lions. How do they sound?
   
  From my brief listening with the Mullards, I found the sound to be a bit dark, but musical and dynamic. Maybe a bit too dark for me or in my setup - or it could just be this pair of Mullards...I don't know.


----------



## librarian

Just want to mention, that tubemonger has offered me a full refund, if I return the defective tubes. Great service!!!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





librarian said:


> these were not even cheap... If it's normal to pay 100$ for defective Mullards, I'm through with Mullards
> 
> Maybe I should look into the Genalex Gold Lions. How do they sound?
> 
> From my brief listening with the Mullards, I found the sound to be a bit dark, but musical and dynamic. Maybe a bit too dark for me or in my setup - or it could just be this pair of Mullards...I don't know.


 

 I had the same issue and tubemonger refunded me also. The Genelex 6922 are the best current production tubes I have used and super reliable and I only buy them from JMcshane@prodigy.m]net as he matches them personally and ultra quiet.


----------



## FCCF

Hi all
   
  I've been reading this forum for over a year regularly. To start with, thanks guys: nearly all my purchases are based on comments from this forum..i agree I should audition carefully myself but I dont think I have the patience and time to do that.. And recently I ve got a WA2 to drive my T1 (again, largely due to the comments in here!). Before that I ve been using corda concerto + stagedac as my dac/amp combo.
   
  When I first listen to the WA2 (frankly I did set my expectation pretty high), I would say it doesn't impress me as much as I imagine. But it is a good amp anyways, only not a huge jump from concerto. 
  When it is close to 100 hrs break in, the stock tube started to go much of a tubey sound than its first few hrs. I knew it is the difference I've paid for.
   
  Few days before, I got myself the sylvania 7236..not until now I realize how this amp could be performing. Lots of the details have been missed before I would say, the imaging, 3D sound space, all are noticeably improved. But what I value the most is: the emotion of the singer's voice. It can really touch your soul when an amp is doing its job, and seriously, I started having this feeling when the 7236 are in my WA2. For ~$120, it think it definitely worth it. I know the TS5998 is highly rated here, but sadly they are very scarce now, and the cost doesnt look acceptable to me.
  Anyways, 7236 is already satisfying and justified its cost. I didnt believe the tube could make such a big difference, but seriously it really does.
   
  Not sure how many head-fiers do value the emotion expression as much as I do. It maybe just talking about the richness and details retrieval of the mid, I don't know exactly..
  Feel free to share =)
   
  Fred


----------



## ardilla

Congratulations on your WA2!


----------



## FCCF

Does anyone try WA2 + HD800? How is it compared to WA2 + T1 and is it worth to have one when I already own the T1..? I just want to fully utilize the WA2..


----------



## ardilla

I sold the HD800 to get the T1 before I got the WA2. But WA2 is generally stellar with high imp phones. Are you considering having  both the  HD800 and T1 or are you only keeping one?
   
  Quote: 





fccf said:


> Does anyone try WA2 + HD800? How is it compared to WA2 + T1 and is it worth to have one when I already own the T1..? I just want to fully utilize the WA2..


----------



## librarian

Mullard cv2493. Much better, no noice at all. Recommended.


----------



## qwasqasw

I love pictures of glowing tubes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





fccf said:


> Does anyone try WA2 + HD800? How is it compared to WA2 + T1 and is it worth to have one when I already own the T1..? I just want to fully utilize the WA2..


 

 When I owned the WA2, I did have (and still do actually) both the HD800s and T1s. Its a wonderful amp for either one. Which one is better is really up to the listener IMO. The HD800 is technically superior, but the T1s are more musical and versatile IMO.


----------



## FCCF

Wonderful. I think I will get a HD800 very soon..as I agree that T1 is somehow having a limited soundstage and I hope HD800 can improve it..
  Wondering what more upgrades can I have afterwards..


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





fccf said:


> Wonderful. I think I will get a HD800 very soon..as I agree that T1 is somehow having a limited soundstage and I hope HD800 can improve it..
> Wondering what more upgrades can I have afterwards..


 


  I would say that the T1's soudstaging is phenomenal...just smaller IN COMPARISON to the HD800s.


----------



## ardilla

macedonianhero said:


> I would say that the T1's soudstaging is phenomenal...just smaller IN COMPARISON to the HD800s.




X 2 , I preferred the T1s soundstage to hd800. Just as precise, more intimate.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

wa2 is awesome!


----------



## ardilla

Waaaaw2
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wa2 is awesome!


----------



## Dubstep Girl




----------



## MacedonianHero

dubstep girl said:


> wa2 is awesome!




Yes it is!


----------



## beaver316

Subscribed! 
   
  Looking forward to reading more about the WA2 as i plan on pairing it with my soon to be had Beyerdynamic T1 and Schiit Bifrost dac. When i say soon, i mean hopefully this year lol.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

oh its an amazing combination. it does just about everything right.


----------



## lobotomizer

just ordered a black one


----------



## artist777

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> wa2 is awesome!


 
  Agree, very nice AMP


----------



## ardilla

Could someone rename the title for this thread so that it includes "WA2" - I've just spent a very long time trying to refind it. Moderator? Somebody knows?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I'll be getting a WA2 on loan next wednesday.
  I'll be using 2399 Chatham, 7308 Sylvania and EZ80 Philips Miniwatt
   
  Looking forward to hearing it!


----------



## ardilla

Looking forward to your impressions! Which phones?


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





lobotomizer said:


> just ordered a black one


 
   
  What was the lead time? I'm considering one as well.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Looking forward to your impressions! Which phones?


 
   
  with this amp mostly the HD650 and T70 but I'll give the orthos a try too


----------



## Rawrbington

love the 2 with the HD650.  it just hits the spot for tonality.  i like the warm smooth laid back sound a lot.
  i don't use my 2 that much anymore.  really spend a lot of time with speakers but its just so good i can't bring myself to let it go.  even if i only use it a couple times a month its so good that justifies the money tied up in it for me


----------



## HeatFan12

Wow..Time flies indeed...I posted in this thread when I first received it (post #29, 01-21-09)...It is still kicking some @ss...Great sound, four inputs and a pre-out...Total package...
   
  Currently, went back with the stock power tubes (GE 6AS7GA), Tesla ECC88s & Tungsram EZ80s.  Using it as a pre a lot nowadays with my Rokits.
   
  Cheers!!!


----------



## Ultrainferno

I got got 2 Philips miniwatt EZ80 tubes. One turned out to be labelled Philips, and the other is a Miniwatt made in Brazil. The Philips one has a ring getter (was made in the '60s in Germany and the other one has a square getter with a Sao paulo Brazil factory code. See pic below. Can I use these safely together in the WA2?
   
 
   
  Thanks for the help!


----------



## Clayton SF

How to stuff a WA2 into a backpack.


----------



## Efjay

A seperate thread elicted no responses so I thought I'd try my luck here: 
   
I own the WA2, utilizing the 7236 power tubes. Presently, I have been using Denon d2000s for listening. I primarily listen to metal (everything from death to thrash to black and so on).
   
I've been perusing the forums looking for advice on upgrading my phones. From what I've read, several posters have stated that either the Hifiman HE-500 or Auduze LCD-2 might pair well with the WA2. Other posters have disagreed and a recent email response from Woo Audio stated
   
"[size=11pt]The impedance of these headphones is technically compatible to the WA2. However, they are rated 89dB and 91dB which are low sensitive. They require a higher power amp to power them at their full potential."[/size]
   
    
I also sent an amail to HifiMan regarding using the WA2 with the HE-500 and their reply was that it was compatible.
   
I'd like to keep my budget in the $700 to $1000 range. Any advice, particularly those based on personal experience, would be welcome. Any other recommendations would be welcome as well.


----------



## hodgjy

Sure, sound will come out of low impedance headphones driven by an OTL amp such as the WA2, but it is far from optimal. OTL amps are best paired with high impedance headphones like the 300 ohm Sennheisers ans the 600 ohm Beyerdynamics. Low impedance, low sensitivity headphones like orthos will not match their optimality from OTL amps. Those conditions are the worst of both worlds. If you are going to drive low impedance headphones from an OTL amp, it's best they are highly sensitive. 



efjay said:


> [COLOR=000000]A seperate thread elicted no responses so I thought I'd try my luck here:[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=000000]I own the WA2, utilizing the 7236 power tubes. Presently, I have been using Denon d2000s for listening. I primarily listen to metal (everything from death to thrash to black and so on).[/COLOR]
> 
> ...


----------



## Efjay

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Sure, sound will come out of low impedance headphones driven by an OTL amp such as the WA2, but it is far from optimal. OTL amps are best paired with high impedance headphones like the 300 ohm Sennheisers ans the 600 ohm Beyerdynamics. Low impedance, low sensitivity headphones like orthos will not match their optimality from OTL amps. Those conditions are the worst of both worlds. If you are going to drive low impedance headphones from an OTL amp, it's best they are highly sensitive.


 
   
  Appreciate the reply. This would seem to be the state of things unfortunately. I've had my WA2 about 30 months and I have to admit a bit of regret due to the limiting of compatible headphones. I'm a longtime lurker on these pages and I've learned a considerable amount since my purchase and I would probably go a different route these days. At this point I'll likely look at Grados or the HD700s.


----------



## hodgjy

Since you like metal, why not try the Beyerdynamc DT990 600 ohms? I love mine for metal. They love tubes, and tubes love them. They perform way above their price point and would be a great match for the WA2 and metal.


----------



## Draygonn

efjay said:


> Appreciate the reply. This would seem to be the state of things unfortunately. I've had my WA2 about 30 months and I have to admit a bit of regret due to the limiting of compatible headphones. I'm a longtime lurker on these pages and I've learned a considerable amount since my purchase and I would probably go a different route these days. At this point I'll likely look at Grados or the HD700s.


Going the OTL route does have it's limitations. Have you thought about flipping your WA2 for a WA6SE? It has an output transformer which could handle the lower impedance cans and should do well with orthos if you choose that route. You would still have the beautiful Woo Audio look.


----------



## ardilla

The impedance of orthodynamics is usually a totally different story than with dynamics. 
   
  The LCD-2/3 and Hifiamn orthos have FLAT impedance curves. This implies that the impedance matching is a less concern thanwith normal dynamic headphones, as the Denon D2000, e.g. On the WA22, I mostly prefer the LCD-2/3 using the HI impedance setting, as it gives a fuller, sweeter sound. 
   
  So, since you are happy with the Denons (and others are happy with Denons as well) you should not be of too much concern bout the impedance. There can, however, be a challenge with regards to raw power. I have the HE-500, LCD-2(r1) and LCD-3 - all works well on the WA2, but the HE500 least so (imo)
   
  If you're going LCD-2, the rev.1 is easier to drive.  
   
  Quote: 





efjay said:


> A seperate thread elicted no responses so I thought I'd try my luck here:
> 
> I own the WA2, utilizing the 7236 power tubes. Presently, I have been using Denon d2000s for listening. I primarily listen to metal (everything from death to thrash to black and so on).
> 
> ...


----------



## ardilla

BTW:
   
  Here are some impressions I wrote comparing the WA22 and the WA2 using HD650 and LCD-3. I basically found the LCD-2 rev.1 to bahave similarly to the LCD-3. 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/615810/the-beauty-and-the-beast-woo-wa2-vs-wa22


----------



## Efjay

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> Going the OTL route does have it's limitations. Have you thought about flipping your WA2 for a WA6SE? It has an output transformer which could handle the lower impedance cans and should do well with orthos if you choose that route. You would still have the beautiful Woo Audio look.


 
   I've never sold a piece of equipment so I doubt I'll start here. Also, one reason I picked the WA2 was the ability to use it as a pre-amp.
   
  Most likely, I'll look to getting headphones that will match and consider building a new system down the road. For a bit more, perhaps the Denon 7100 will present a best of all worlds solution. I'd like to try the Shure 1840s as well.
   
  Thanks again for the various replies.


----------



## Efjay

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> BTW:
> 
> Here are some impressions I wrote comparing the WA22 and the WA2 using HD650 and LCD-3. I basically found the LCD-2 rev.1 to bahave similarly to the LCD-3.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/615810/the-beauty-and-the-beast-woo-wa2-vs-wa22


 
   I read that thread. The LCD-2, as they presently exist, are barely more sensitive than the HE-500s. Not certain I would have any better results running them. There were a few comparison threads regarding the WA2, and a review mentioning the HE-500 being run by the WA2, but it seems counter-intuitive that they should make a good pairing.


----------



## Efjay

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Since you like metal, why not try the Beyerdynamc DT990 600 ohms? I love mine for metal. They love tubes, and tubes love them. They perform way above their price point and would be a great match for the WA2 and metal.


 
   I've been looking at a lot of headphones though I wonder if this represents more of a side-grade than an upgrade.
   
  ...and I wish I saw the multi-quote button earlier.


----------



## hodgjy

You're probably right about being a side-grade, but since they are high impedance, they will have a better damping factor and, thus, better sounding bass (in theory).
   
  Quote: 





efjay said:


> I've been looking at a lot of headphones though I wonder if this represents more of a side-grade than an upgrade.
> 
> ...and I wish I saw the multi-quote button earlier.


----------



## Efjay

Out of curiousity, does anyone know the power output of the WA2 using the 7236 tubes?


----------



## NOMBEDES

Is there a consensus on impedance?  What is the approximate cut off between Low ~ Med ~ High for headphones.  I know this is a newbie question, but I do not know the answer.


----------



## Rawrbington

i think the output impedance on the WA2 is around 80 ohms.
  for dynamic headphones you'll probably be best served with cans 250 ohms and higher.  but that said my beyer 770 80 ohms sound very good out of it as well.  just not as tight as my HD 650's or 990 600 ohm were


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i think the output impedance on the WA2 is around 80 ohms.
> for dynamic headphones you'll probably be best served with cans 250 ohms and higher.  but that said my beyer 770 80 ohms sound very good out of it as well.  just not as tight as my HD 650's or 990 600 ohm were


 
  The output impedance of the amp being OTL, depends on the impedance of the headphones plugged into it.


----------



## ardilla

5998/7236 gives 10% extra power according to Jack Woo by email

Read the power ratings here: 
http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf



Output impedance is supposedly rated 60 ohm according to Jack Woo

ref: 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/392549/woo-audio-wa2-and-the-pdps-mod#post_5165787


----------



## ardilla

Can you elaborate this, dear Mr. MacedonianHero?
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> The output impedance of the amp being OTL, depends on the impedance of the headphones plugged into it.


----------



## Efjay

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> 5998/7236 gives 10% extra power according to Jack Woo by email


 
  Sound qualities aside, that the use of the 7236 adds only 31 milliwatts (assuming it is as simple as 10% more power than the rating with the stock tubes) of power over the stock tubes for the WA2 is sort of surprising. When I purchased my amp, I was recommended those tubes for use with my headphones to make certain I had enough power. I tend to doubt I was short just 10% (and I should probably see what it sounds like with the stock tubes, they've been in their boxes since the day I got my package.)


----------



## ardilla

Me: How much do the output power of the WA2 increase with the 5998 and 6H13-type tubes?
   
  Woo: With 5998, it increases about 10%. 6H13 is similar to 6080’s.


----------



## Efjay

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Me: How much do the output power of the WA2 increase with the 5998 and 6H13-type tubes?
> 
> Woo: With 5998, it increases about 10%. 6H13 is similar to 6080’s.


 
   I wasn't doubting you, merely noting that I don't usually associate the phrase "greater power" to mean a 10% increase.


----------



## ardilla

10% is 10%...... That beeing said, I too expected it to be more. Have you tried the stock tubes yet?


----------



## Efjay

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> 10% is 10%...... That beeing said, I too expected it to be more. Have you tried the stock tubes yet?


 
   Not yet. I may give it a spin this weekend.
   
  I suspect I will try the HE-500 with my WA2 at some point. I have to admit that I don't have a clear understanding of why exactly I should have difficulty driving them.
   
  A calculator at Apex's website concludes:
   

 Headphone sensitivity (dBSPL @ 1 milliwat) 89 Headphone impedance (ohms) 38     Desired loudness (dBSPL) 110     Required power (milliwatts) 126 Required voltage (volts RMS) 2.19 Required current (millamps RMS) 57.6
   
  The same calculator also produces (based on the stock tubes):
   

 Power (milliwatts) 310 Impedance (ohms) 38     Voltage (volts RMS) 3.43
   
  All of which the WA2 should easily produce. I admit to not really understanding the science behind this stuff. And I thought the psuedo-dual power supply was supposed to address the issue of driving low imp headphones.
   
  At any rate, in the event I'm wrong, I have the option of returning the headphones or replacing my amp. (I could just leave the WA2 as amy pre-amp if it comes to that I suppose.)


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> 5998/7236 gives 10% extra power according to Jack Woo by email
> Read the power ratings here:
> http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
> Output impedance is supposedly rated 60 ohm according to Jack Woo
> ...


 
   
  Correct. Jack confirmed as such to me too when I bought my WA2 a few years back.
   
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Can you elaborate this, dear Mr. MacedonianHero?


 
   
  Basically there is no transformer to control the output impedance....so the output impedance of the WA2 will depend on the impedance of the headphones plugged into it.


----------



## Rawrbington

how does a high z can affect the output impedance vs a low z can?


----------



## ardilla

macedonianhero said:


> Correct. Jack confirmed as such to me too when I bought my WA2 a few years back.
> 
> 
> Basically there is no transformer to control the output impedance....so the output impedance of the WA2 will depend on the impedance of the headphones plugged into it.




Ok, that makes somewhat sense, but what does it mean? Is all this fuzz about impedance matching with the wa2 irrelevant? Where does this leave Jack's 60 ohms?


----------



## Efjay

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Ok, that makes somewhat sense, but what does it mean? Is all this fuzz about impedance matching with the wa2 irrelevant? Where does this leave Jack's 60 ohms?


 
   
  I don't have an answer but I would note that in my email regarding powering the He-500 or LCD-2, Woo's 'concern' was not about the impedance of the headphones but about the sensitivity.


----------



## 1audioz

Anyone using the Philips JAN 6922? I got them a few days ago and I'm absolutely loving them. Rock music in particular seems to have greater attack, bass extension and quantity seems to be greater than Japanese made Counterpoint 6922 (stock) tubes.
   
  Still waiting on a pair of Svetlana 6H13C from Ukraine.


----------



## hodgjy

I've used both of these tubes you mention in my WA3.  The JAN Phillips 6922 is a good tube, but it's more grainy than the JAN Sylvania 6DJ8.  I like both, but prefer the latter. 
   
  The Svetlana is an underrated tube around here.  It's warm and smooth, but has a little veil to it.  Overall, I like it.  Very, very low noise.  The lowest noise I've ever experience on that family of tube types.
   
  Quote: 





1audioz said:


> Anyone using the Philips JAN 6922? I got them a few days ago and I'm absolutely loving them. Rock music in particular seems to have greater attack, bass extension and quantity seems to be greater than Japanese made Counterpoint 6922 (stock) tubes.
> 
> Still waiting on a pair of Svetlana 6H13C from Ukraine.


----------



## ardilla

I agree - the 6H13C is a great tube - and it has a very modest pricetag 
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The Svetlana is an underrated tube around here.  It's warm and smooth, but has a little veil to it.  Overall, I like it.  Very, very low noise.  The lowest noise I've ever experience on that family of tube types.


----------



## ardilla

I have briefly been switching back and forth between the WA2 and WA22 today with the HE500 - I cannot really say the WA2 sounds like it is having any issues with the HE500. Have to turn the volume at 12-13 (I have the stepped attenuator), but there is more to go on. I have the 6080 tubes in the WA2 now. 
   
  You have read *THIS *I assume?
  Quote: 





efjay said:


> I don't have an answer but I would note that in my email regarding powering the *He-500* or LCD-2, Woo's 'concern' was not about the impedance of the headphones but about the *sensitivity*.


----------



## Efjay

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> I have briefly been switching back and forth between the WA2 and WA22 today with the HE500 - I cannot really say the WA2 sounds like it is having any issues with the HE500. Have to turn the volume at 12-13 (I have the stepped attenuator), but there is more to go on. I have the 6080 tubes in the WA2 now.
> 
> You have read *THIS *I assume?


 
   I did. That and a few other comments led me to believe that the WA2 would match with the HE-500 fine. Those subjective opinions plus the fact that it would 'seem' that there is sufficient power.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





1audioz said:


> Anyone using the Philips JAN 6922? I got them a few days ago and I'm absolutely loving them. Rock music in particular seems to have greater attack, bass extension and quantity seems to be greater than Japanese made Counterpoint 6922 (stock) tubes.


 
  ive got a pair of the Philips 6922.  great tube for the price tag.  solid all round price to performace. 
  my favorite pre amp tubes on the 2 have been the Amprex Bugle Boy 6DJ8.  but they also cost about double what my philips did.


----------



## ardilla

Well, if the HE500 works well, the LCD-2 rev.2 would be even better, since it is more sensitive (89 vs 91 dB)
   
  Quote: 





efjay said:


> I did. That and a few other comments led me to believe that the WA2 would match with the HE-500 fine. Those subjective opinions plus the fact that it would 'seem' that there is sufficient power.


----------



## Efjay

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Well, if the HE500 works well, the LCD-2 rev.2 would be even better, since it is more sensitive (89 vs 91 dB)


 
  That would seem to be true though from what I've read the description of the HE-500 would seem to better suit my musical tastes. Actually, in the thread you cited, the op specifically stated that he thought the WA2/LCD-2 combo over extenuated the things they did well making what would seem to be a more cloying sound.


----------



## ardilla

Remember, amplifiers do indeed make phones sound different. 
   
  What is it you hope you'll find in the HE-500 - what characteristics are you after? 
   
  Quote: 





efjay said:


> That would seem to be true though from what I've read the description of the HE-500 would seem to better suit my musical tastes. Actually, in the thread you cited, the op specifically stated that he thought the WA2/LCD-2 combo over extenuated the things they did well making what would seem to be a more cloying sound.


----------



## Efjay

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Remember, amplifiers do indeed make phones sound different.
> 
> What is it you hope you'll find in the HE-500 - what characteristics are you after?


 
  That's a great question.
   
  I've been listening to music a long time but have primarily listened through speakers when not at the computer. The WA2 was my first foray into a higher-end amp and handles pre-amp duties in my bedroom system. I'd like to shift into more of a 50-50 ratio of headphone listening and speaker listening.
   
  Ideally, I'd like a fairly neutral headphone in the sense that one area isn't accenuated at the expense of another. While I don't necessarily need bass heavy, I would like the bass to be reproduced accurately and with impact. I guess a balanced sound, something the Denon does';t really do though I have enjoyed using them (and will likely shift them to my desktop system when they are replaced.) I love the sound of the WA2 and want a headphone that reproduces that sound without smothering it.
   
  Most of the time I don't think I speak the 'language' of Head-fi. Above describes what I'd like as best as possible.


----------



## hodgjy

To me, that sounds just like the HD600.
  Quote: 





efjay said:


> Ideally, I'd like a fairly neutral headphone in the sense that one area isn't accenuated at the expense of another. While I don't necessarily need bass heavy, I would like the bass to be reproduced accurately and with impact. I guess a balanced sound, something the Denon does';t really do though I have enjoyed using them (and will likely shift them to my desktop system when they are replaced.) I love the sound of the WA2 and want a headphone that reproduces that sound without smothering it.


----------



## ardilla

Have you checked out the He400? It is more efficient than the other orthos, Hifiman says ipod-efficiency.....


----------



## Efjay

Quote:


ardilla said:


> Have you checked out the He400? It is more efficient than the other orthos, Hifiman says ipod-efficiency.....


 
   I've looked at them though the sound signature seemed to be akin to the Denon 2000s. I'll read up on them again. But I've had the HE-500 in the back of my head after wading through a number of threads, reviews, etc.
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> To me, that sounds just like the HD600.


 
   Something to consider though I thought they weren't recommended for a heavy metal based diet.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Ok, that makes somewhat sense, but what does it mean? Is all this fuzz about impedance matching with the wa2 irrelevant? Where does this leave Jack's 60 ohms?


 
   
  The WA2 can't got as low as say 1 or 5 ohms output impedance. But when one plugs in a 300 ohm headphone the output impedance would be "X" (you'd have to ask Woo Audio for this number) and then if you plugged in a 600 ohm beyer the output impedance would be "X+Y" (again, you'd have to ask Woo for the exact numbers here). As there are no output transformers on an OTL (Output Transformer-Less) amps, the amp cannot make sure that the output impedance is the same for headphones of different impedances. Hopefully this helps.


----------



## Efjay

What is the relationship between the tubes installed and the amp's ability to drive speakers? I understand that the power tubes power the headphones but what, other than the sound of the amp, do the other tubes do?


----------



## ardilla

Are you asking how the tubes will affect the WA2 as a pre-amp ?


----------



## Efjay

I miswrote when I said speakers. I am only asking in relation to driving headphones.


----------



## Draygonn

efjay said:


> What is the relationship between the tubes installed and the amp's ability to drive speakers? I understand that the power tubes power the headphones but what, other than the sound of the amp, do the other tubes do?


I'll give this a shot.


Rectifier - Turns A/C into D/C
Driver - Fed by the RCA inputs, sends waveform to the Power tube
Power - Amplifies the waveform given by the Driver tube and sends it to the headphones

The Driver tube is sometimes referred to as the Input tube. The Power tube is sometimes referred to as the Output tube.


----------



## hodgjy

Nice picture and explanations. I'll also add that the driver tubes do have voltage gain, but the power tube has considerably higher voltage gain. Both stages are necessary to achieve the voltage gain and voicing intended by the designer.


----------



## ardilla

Do you listen primarily to heavy metal? What bands?
   
  Quote: 





efjay said:


> Something to consider though I thought they weren't recommended for a heavy metal based diet.


----------



## Efjay

Quote: 





draygonn said:


> I'll give this a shot.


 
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Nice picture and explanations. I'll also add that the driver tubes do have voltage gain, but the power tube has considerably higher voltage gain. Both stages are necessary to achieve the voltage gain and voicing intended by the designer.


 
  Thanks for the explanations.
  Quote: 





ardilla said:


> Do you listen primarily to heavy metal? What bands?


 
  I'm all over the metal spectrum though I am primarily a thrash and death metal fan. I do own quite a bit of black metal and grindcore. Not too much metal I don't enjoy and listen to other than a few of the power metal bands. I'm a hardcore fan as well though 1990 seems to mark the date past which I find much less to recommend. Been listening since I was 13 or so giving me nearly 27 years of enjoyment of the genre.
   
  If I were to name my ten favorite bands, they might be, in no order: Slayer, Deathspell Omega, Overkill, Celtic Frost, Amorphis, Napalm Death, Anthrax, Mind Over Four, Acid Bath and Faith No More. That list could change daily. More modern bands I like are Blasphemophagher, Havok, Bosse-De-Nage...Lists of old and new bands could go on for a long time.
   
  I do listen to non-metal but even that tends to be of the hard rock persuasion. No classical and only a smattering of jazz in my collection.


----------



## ardilla

I'll listen to your music with the HE-500 with the WA2 and come back to you ,)
  Quote: 





efjay said:


> Thanks for the explanations.
> I'm all over the metal spectrum though I am primarily a thrash and death metal fan. I do own quite a bit of black metal and grindcore. Not too much metal I don't enjoy and listen to other than a few of the power metal bands. I'm a hardcore fan as well though 1990 seems to mark the date past which I find much less to recommend. Been listening since I was 13 or so giving me nearly 27 years of enjoyment of the genre.
> 
> If I were to name my ten favorite bands, they might be, in no order: Slayer, Deathspell Omega, Overkill, Celtic Frost, Amorphis, Napalm Death, Anthrax, Mind Over Four, Acid Bath and Faith No More. That list could change daily. More modern bands I like are Blasphemophagher, Havok, Bosse-De-Nage...Lists of old and new bands could go on for a long time.
> ...


----------



## Efjay

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> I'll listen to your music with the HE-500 with the WA2 and come back to you ,)


 
  Cool.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> I'll listen to your music with the HE-500 with the WA2 and come back to you ,)


 
  gotta love head-fi!


----------



## ardilla

I emailed Woo about WA2 impedance again
   
Woo: It’s been awhile since we measured the WA2. There are a few revisions so we have to measure again. Please stay tuned.


----------



## ardilla

*Woo WA2 and HE-500 mini-review*
   
  Well, now I'm listening to "Dearth" by Deathspell Omega through the HE-500 run by the Woo Audio WA2. I cannot really find anything wrong with this setup. I have been listening to other types of music also (classical, modern jazz, flamenco etc, same playlist as I used in the review I link to below).
   
  I have the stepped attenuator with 24 steps. My practical listening levels with the HE-500 are step 7 -12 . From step 13 it gets too loud for me. With classical pieces or other stuff with low level recordings I might go up to step 14 or 15. If I take the phones off I can keep turning the volume knob - it gets louder for every step till it reaches step 24. If I hold the headphones away from my ears (like 10 cm) I can hear the even at close to full volum, I cannot hear any disortion. 
   
  I have the WA22 lined up beside the WA2 and I switch back and forth. Whilst the WA22 is a bit more punchy and slightly better defined, I cannot really say it is a whole lot of a difference. I also switch back and forth with the Lavry DA11, which is a very nice dac/amp indeed. It has a bit more bass punch than the WA2, but the WA2 has nice fullness to it that has its own right, and offers the spacious and relaxed sound. Using the HD650, the differences between the WA2/WA22 feels quite parallell. The WA22 is the punchier and tighter, whilst the WA2 is a bit more relaxed and pleasant, so to say. For people who are interested, red more here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/615810/the-beauty-and-the-beast-woo-wa2-vs-wa22
   
  I cannot really understand how people can really be saying that the WA2 is underpowering the HE-500. The WA22 delivers a rated 1.5W in 30 ohms or something, and if there were a whole lot I was missing out with the WA2 - it would show in a direct comparison. I used the 5998 tubes in the WA22 to be sure I got the best of it, whilst I used some RCA 6080's in the WA2 to make my little comparison more universal. 
   
  The sound from the WA2/HE500 is nice and fast sounding, very spacious with great soundstage. The bass is well defined and generous and reaches deep. Highs are crisp and clear, mids are clear and delicate.  In comparison, the WA22 has a pretty similiar sound sig (i would call them clear-sounding), but the bass is slightly more punchy, and things are a bit more defined in a way - but not so that I necessarily prefer the WA22 way. They are a bit different, but often either presentation has its right. 
   
  Come to think of it - this must be a pretty good way of investigating the issue of how much power the HE-500 needs, I mean - using two amps that are designed by the same man to have a similar sound signature, but with internal design and different power outputs. 
   
  As a final comment, I can tell that I am now listening the Enslaved playing Raidho - and I actually prefer it on the WA2. Thus, my conclusion to this little mini test is I cannot see any reason not to get the HE-500 for the WA2. To my ears and memory, it is not really that different from the higly regarded T1 + WA2 combo - but do not shoot me, it's been a while since I had the T1.


----------



## Efjay

Great write up. Even better that it specifically included music I listen to, on specific equipment I own. Thanks for the effort.


----------



## WooAudio

Regarding output impedance of the WA2, it is measured approximately 70 ohms with GE 6080 power tubes. There is a variation of 15% given different brands and models of the power tubes. On the other hand, the WA3 is about 180 ohms with GE 6080's.
   
  Hope this is clear,
  Jack


----------



## Lazyboy_sg

Hi Jack,
   
  Would WA2 be able to drive Audeze LCD 3?


----------



## ardilla

wooaudio said:


> Regarding output impedance of the WA2, it is measured approximately 70 ohms with GE 6080 power tubes. There is a variation of 15% given different brands and models of the power tubes. On the other hand, the WA3 is about 180 ohms with GE
> 
> Hope this is clear,
> Jack




Will the output impedance vary with the headphone used, as mentioned a few posts ago?


----------



## ardilla

lazyboy_sg said:


> Hi Jack,
> 
> Would WA2 be able to drive Audeze LCD 3?




I'm not Jack, by YES, the LCD-3 works great with the WA2. Other users have reported the same. TheGrumpyOldMan e.g. wrote he really enjoyed the combo, I am with him on that one. It is one of my favorites, even if I presently have the WA22 as well. However, there are always better, more expensive and powerful stuff out there.. 

I'm repeating myself, but I'm getting a bit annoyed with all this talk about the WA2 "under-powering". It is all relative. LCD-3 works fine with the WA2. It can play way louder than your ears can bear without clipping or disorting or whatever, and it sounds gorgeous. Other amps offer a different sound. If I sell my WA2 I will miss the WA2+LCD-3 sound. I'll not go into details, as I have written in detail about my impressions before, HERE..


----------



## webegrubbin

What DAC do you guys recommend to use with the WA2?  I'll be using HD650's.


----------



## hodgjy

What's your budget?
   
  Quote: 





webegrubbin said:


> What DAC do you guys recommend to use with the WA2?  I'll be using HD650's.


----------



## webegrubbin

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> What's your budget?


 

 $500ish


----------



## hodgjy

Arcam rDAC.
   
  Quote: 





webegrubbin said:


> $500ish


----------



## ardilla

Metrum Quad NOS dac!!


----------



## Sahara

My phones set up:
   
  iPad +iTunes Match (about 2000 CDs)
  Wadia i171 Transport
  AudioNote 3.1x DAC -full upgrade-
  Woo Audio 2
  Sennheiser HD800
   
  ¡¡Very happy!!
  Looking for another headphone to use with WA2 and HD800...
   
  Audeze LCD-3???


----------



## ardilla

Nice setup. I think the LCD-3 is great with the WA2 
  Quote: 





sahara said:


> My phones set up:
> 
> iPad +iTunes Match (about 2000 CDs)
> Wadia i171 Transport
> ...


----------



## nieveulv

just ordered a wa2 to pair with my t1  Time to purchase some tubes (note: im a 100% tube newbie with 0 experience)
  I wanted to maximise the wa2 with my t1 and ive read almost a thousand page of all t1/wa2 tube rolling thread lol.
   
  Since im buying the tubes from beloved EBAY, heres my choices based on the reviews.
   
  Am i doing it right? 
   
  power: tungsol 7236/5998...is this a 5998 or 7236, im not sure...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tung-Sol-7236-5998-Tube-1960-Very-Strong-and-Perfectly-Balanced-/170894546501?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27ca1bd645
  driver: siemens e88cc......ive only heard this because macedonianhero mention this will be better than the mullard...again not too sure
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WORLDS-BEST-NOS-SIEMENS-E88CC-6922-PLATINUM-MATCHED-PAIR-for-Audible-Illusions-/230833368060?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35bebdabfc
   
  rectifier : stock for now.
   
  Please need some advice.....its hard to purchase tubes from here..


----------



## Ultrainferno

Those look like 7236 indeed, buttyou posted the same link twice.
  Pretty expensive as well btw


----------



## nieveulv

driver: siemens e88cc  This is the correct link
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WORLDS-BEST-NOS-SIEMENS-E88CC-6922-PLATINUM-MATCHED-PAIR-for-Audible-Illusions-/230833368060?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35bebdabfc


----------



## Ultrainferno

Yes, but very overpriced, a NOS matched pair here goes for like $130


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Yes, but very overpriced, a NOS matched pair here goes for like $130


 
  Typically they go for $250ish for a matched pair for a platinum level. Sorry, that's the going rate for low noise, low microphonic NOS tubes. I'd be very sceptical of a pair going for $130...likely used or noisy (or both).


----------



## nieveulv

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Typically they go for $250ish for a matched pair for a platinum level. Sorry, that's the going rate for low noise, low microphonic NOS tubes. I'd be very sceptical of a pair going for $130...likely used or noisy (or both).


 
  so do you recomend this over a mullard cv2492??
   
  Also finally theres a ts5998 for sale...but it says this one has a different sound signature...confused..Wow this is hard
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-NOS-NIB-JAN-TUNG-SOL-Dual-Getters-5998-tubes-/120977428112?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c2ad10e90


----------



## Csericks

I'm not sure that it is really very hard. I have had my WA2 for about 8 months and I continue to be thrilled. I think that you will find that various combinations of tubes will provide you with many variations of pleasing sounds. I have not likely found the best but Tung Sol 7236, Chatham 6AS7G and Hytron 6AS7G power tubes combined with EH6922 or Matsu****a 7dJ8 drivers have given me many hours of satisfaction. Enjoy the search, there is a lot of great listening ahead!


----------



## nieveulv

Quote: 





csericks said:


> I'm not sure that it is really very hard. I have had my WA2 for about 8 months and I continue to be thrilled. I think that you will find that various combinations of tubes will provide you with many variations of pleasing sounds. I have not likely found the best but Tung Sol 7236, Chatham 6AS7G and Hytron 6AS7G power tubes combined with EH6922 or Matsu****a 7dJ8 drivers have given me many hours of satisfaction. Enjoy the search, there is a lot of great listening ahead!


 
   
  hard on the wallet


----------



## Aethelred

Siemens tubes are on the airy/ frequency extension side of the sound. The best are CCA E88CC grey plates. Those are silver plate and are not far from cheaper 1970s Siemens tubes with number printed on top of the glass. They are still very good if somebody is looking for that kind of airy presentration and are rated below Telefunkens i this application. For anybody interested find my previous post on tubes in WA2.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/494487/another-wa2-tube-roling-thread-my-findings-after-couple-months
  And finally I've found 6AS7 brown cup/base but currently working too much so no time to roll them.
   
  I think this has been already said many times about power tubes:
  6080 - OK but do not stand out.
  5998 for extension / a bit of body well balanced
  7236 more like organic sound ( at least in my case )
  6as7 for midrange sweetness
  and brown base 6AS& suppose to be the sweetest of them all.
  Be careful as a lot 5998 Chatham/Tungsol/Telefunken are in fact Russian 6H13C rebranded. Check the getter if it is located at the bottom. If looks like small UFO it is Russian, rectangle shape should be TungSol it is not rule of thumb but I've seen a lot of rebranded tubes especially that nowadays prices are going sky high. I remember buying 4 E88CC siemens A-Frame for 50Euros in 2005 now you are looking for 4 times the figure.
  Also 6080 Telefunken I think are overrated for power tubes application in WA2 and in fact most of them if not all are not even Telefunken produced but rather GE.
  For rectifier tubes I could not say the difference was huge but I liked RFT tubes  best.


----------



## 1audioz

Quote: 





nieveulv said:


> just ordered a wa2 to pair with my t1  Time to purchase some tubes (note: im a 100% tube newbie with 0 experience)
> I wanted to maximise the wa2 with my t1 and ive read almost a thousand page of all t1/wa2 tube rolling thread lol.
> 
> Since im buying the tubes from beloved EBAY, heres my choices based on the reviews.
> ...


 
   
   
  From my experience so far, I am preferring this setup (also based on recommendations here) with my T1
   
  Tesla EZ80 - stock
  Phillips 6922 - ~$30 a pair
  Svetlana  6H13C - 4 from eBay for about $40 bucks shipped


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





nieveulv said:


> so do you recomend this over a mullard cv2492??
> 
> Also finally theres a ts5998 for sale...but it says this one has a different sound signature...confused..Wow this is hard
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-NOS-NIB-JAN-TUNG-SOL-Dual-Getters-5998-tubes-/120977428112?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1c2ad10e90


 
   
  I do prefer the more neutral, airy and tighter Siemens tubes over the Mullards. I've got a quad of each and they are my two favourite tubes for my LF. They were both outstanding in the WA2 as well.


----------



## Aethelred

1audioz said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Phillips 6922 I assume blue/green print on the bottle are weak choice so is svetlana. Try some decent ones and believe me the sound will be transformed. With current setup I think the sound is thin (as for WA2) and lacking a bit of the body. That was my first consideration that initially on stock tubes my ath-5000 amp had more body than woo. Mr. Woo is offering tube upgrade for a reason. Rectifier Ez80 can be left stock.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## nieveulv

my wa2 arrived  with the t1 it is an awesome combo!! But im sure it can be better with some tube rolling!
  Wallet get ready


----------



## Csericks

Have fun! I love my WA2.


----------



## nieveulv

power and driver tubes had been decided  tungsol 7236 and siemens e88cc. Rectifier left. What do you guys think of these? im not sure how to look at the testing stuffs..
   
  I was thinking of not changing the rectifiers, but heard from alot of people that the ez81 is far less superior than the ez80....so changing it as well....or is the stock ez81 sufficient?
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Dynaco-Mullard-EZ80-6V4-Rectifier-Tubes-/110816120968?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19cd27d088


----------



## Aethelred

Way overpriced, different datacodes. I tried Mullards and Brimar in EZ80 position and for me they dropped transparency of WA2. SOme people swear for them I was not a fan maybe because I'm using Dutch Valvo in E88CC position and they are kind of warm. If you put Siemens maybe Mullard will work. Here you have the same grey plates. Grey plates are nothing special in EZ80 nothing like eg. Siemens E88CC grey vs silver plates.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MULLARD-EZ80-6V4-VALVES-TESTED-NEW-O-ST-Y-P-PAIR-TUBE-/280968040851?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Valves_Vacuum_Tubes&hash=item416b001193


----------



## kingcow

What do you guys think of ? Are they worth the price (495)?
   

```
E188CC=7308 Philips SQ HOLLAND Gold Pins 1972
```


----------



## Rawrbington

well that price covers more than half the price difference from a WA2 to a WA22.
  so im gonna say no but thats just me


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> well that price covers more than half the price difference from a WA2 to a WA22.
> so im gonna say no but thats just me


 
  Good point...in that case, I'd go WA22 instead...much bigger improvement in SQ.


----------



## kingcow

What DAC do you guys recommend in the range of 1K that will go with the wa2 and HD800?
   
  Thanks,


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





kingcow said:


> What DAC do you guys recommend in the range of 1K that will go with the wa2 and HD800?
> 
> Thanks,


 
   
  The Stello DA100 is a good match for the HD800.  I use mine with a WA6 and HD800.


----------



## kingcow

Sorry,
   
  I also need something with balanced outputs for my powered speakers.
   
  Thanks,


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





kingcow said:


> Sorry,
> 
> I also need something with balanced outputs for my powered speakers.
> 
> Thanks,


 
   
  My DA100 Signature has both balanced outputs and RCA outputs.  It was under $1000.


----------



## K_19

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> The Stello DA100 is a good match for the HD800.  I use mine with a WA6 and HD800.


 
   
  Seconded, except my amp is the 6SE.


----------



## Bjorkfan

Posted this in the united thread, and will ask the same here:


Hi,

I'm interested in the WA2.
I like the idea that it can be used as a preamp.
But when I mailed Woo, they don't offer any other upgrades then tubes anymore...
...is the WA2 great as it is? (I was quiet interested in the stepped volume pot. and maybe a power supply upgrade if that was available.)

I later found out this:

The lates reply I got was: "the internal parts are no longer available since the Black Gate caps was out of production for years."

They could however upgrade the volume control to a DACT stepped attenuator.

I also might be interested in a remote volume control, but I don't know if its worth it(?) and I'm also thinking "less extra features, better sound quality and durability". 

Any thoughts? = )


----------



## Clayton SF

Hi,
   
  I really love my WA2 as a preamp. The clarity is unbelievable. I ordered the WA2 when Black Gate caps were available and also had a Goldpoint stepped attenuator installed. I have loaned mine to Ultrainferno. It is now in Belgium. You may want to ask him his opinion as well.
   
  I was offered a remote control but decided against it because I heard somewhere that the motor may affect the sound. I don't know if this is true or not.
   
  Here are some internal pictures of my WA2.


----------



## Rawrbington

awesome pictures clayton!


----------



## Clayton SF

Thanks, Rawrbington.
   
  It _*is*_ an awesome amp; and it is stunning visually as well as sonically.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





clayton sf said:


> Hi,
> 
> I really love my WA2 as a preamp. The clarity is unbelievable. I ordered the WA2 when Black Gate caps were available and also had a Goldpoint stepped attenuator installed. I have loaned mine to Ultrainferno. It is now in Belgium. You may want to ask him his opinion as well.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I will do a full review on the WA2 at one time but what I can say for now is that the sound stage is very wide and deep. This amp focuses on clarity and I even found it to be to clear and clean sounding with the 5998 tubes. With some RCA 6AS7G is became a whole lot smoother and warmer and it gave the bass that kick it needed to my ears. Overall the one word that comes back is "Clarity"
   
  The WA2 also makes a GREAT pre-amp. To be honest I have been using the WA2 more as pre amp as a headphone amp, but I think Clayton was doing the same.
   
  Build quality is perfect and it looks gorgeous! Not as sexy as the La Figaro 339 though


----------



## okw3188

Would like to seek advice on Woo Audio WA6SE versus WA2 driving Audeze LCD-3. My listening preference is mainly jazz vocal & classical symphony, thank you.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Would like to seek advice on Woo Audio WA6SE versus WA2 driving Audeze LCD-3. My listening preference is mainly jazz vocal & classical symphony, thank you.


 
  The WA6SE for the LCD-3s. No question IMO.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> The WA6SE for the LCD-3s. No question IMO.


----------



## ardilla

But WA2 does indeed make LCD-3 sound good too. I like it a lot, altough the more.powerful amps have their advantages sometimes. The wa2 silkyness is something special.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> But WA2 does indeed make LCD-3 sound good too. I like it a lot, altough the more.powerful amps have their advantages sometimes. The wa2 silkyness is something special.


 
  I liked the WA2 with my LCD-2s when I owned both. But it seems that some had issues with clipping. It seemed dependent on the amp (or could be tubes used). Being OTL, its not ideal for low impedance headphones. That said, orthos aren't as dependent on damping factors as dynamic headphones. The WA6SE is the safest bet for the LCD-3s IMO. For the T1s, the WA2 is the way to go.


----------



## ardilla

I actually had a dialog with one a (the?) user who have been reporting clipping issues with the LCD-2 (r.2),. The user sent me a recording of the clipping with the WA2 and LCD-2. I used the same song and could not reconstruct the issue, neither with LCD-2 rev.1 or Hifiman HE-500. I used standard RCA6080 power tubes.  I played so loud I had to hold the headphone cups out K1000-style. No distortion at all. And definitely not clipping. 
   
  But agreed, the 6SE seems the safer way to go - but I would not hesitate recommending WA2 owners to try out the LCD's. It is a great combo   The sibling rivalry review of baka1969 neither has any complaints of the LCD-2/HE-500 with WA2. http://www.head-fi.org/t/555749/sibling-rivalry-the-woo-wa2-vs-the-woo-wa6se-review-posted-update-6-3-2011
   
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I liked the WA2 with my LCD-2s when I owned both. But it seems that some had issues with clipping. It seemed dependent on the amp (or could be tubes used). Being OTL, its not ideal for low impedance headphones. That said, orthos aren't as dependent on damping factors as dynamic headphones. The WA6SE is the safest bet for the LCD-3s IMO. For the T1s, the WA2 is the way to go.


----------



## okw3188

I truly agree with you and the "smooth" sound with LCD3, just got the amp yesterday. I comes with JJ EZ81 & Westinghouse 6080. I used my Siemens e88cc as the pre-amp stage. Very happy with the sound, by the way, do you leave the amp on 24 hrs for the burning in?


----------



## Clayton SF

It looks like the WA234 MONO's estimated price is now at $15,000. Eek. Now I have to save for another 5 more months.


----------



## Rawrbington

I'm getting 2 of them!


----------



## ardilla

Great!
   
  Woo recommends the amp to cool down every 8 hours. I never left it on for even that long. The heat will dry out the capacitators eventually I think..
  Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> I truly agree with you and the *"smooth" sound with LCD3*, just got the amp yesterday. I comes with JJ EZ81 & Westinghouse 6080. I used my Siemens e88cc as the pre-amp stage. Very happy with the sound, by the way, do you leave the amp on *24 hrs for the burning in?*


----------



## Clayton SF

Interesting.
   
  Steve Deckert of Decware states that you can leave the Mini Torii SE on for days:
   
_*"In addition to it's small size (8-1/2 x 11 inches) it also runs extremely cool making it friendly on your desk top or on hot summer days. No stress involved in leaving this amp on for days at a time... it doesn't care.*_"
   
_*Long life - all internals are way overbuilt, there's just nothing inside to fail. Expect 50 years of use out of it without problems.*_
   
  I wonder which capacitors he uses in his Mini Torii SE.


----------



## Rawrbington

looking for advice on my next set of cans to use with my WA2 and Marantz 2245.
  eyeballing LCD2 (rev 1 most likely, but is there really that big a difference?), HE500 or T1.
  i love the HD650 sound, so i'd think the Audeze would be good, but im also a detail fiend and have loved Beyers as well.  But def prefer'd the 650 over my 990's


----------



## ardilla

I like the WA2 with the LCD-2 rev.1 - Rev.1 is also easier to drive, which is a good thing. I like the rev.1 more than the rev.1 actually
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> looking for advice on my next set of cans to use with my WA2 and Marantz 2245.
> eyeballing LCD2 (rev 1 most likely, but is there really that big a difference?), HE500 or T1.
> i love the HD650 sound, so i'd think the Audeze would be good, but im also a detail fiend and have loved Beyers as well.  But def prefer'd the 650 over my 990's


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Would like to seek advice on Woo Audio WA6SE versus WA2 driving Audeze LCD-3. My listening preference is mainly jazz vocal & classical symphony, thank you.


 
   
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> The WA6SE for the LCD-3s. No question IMO.


 
   
  True that. I've got WA2, WA6-SE, LCD-2 r1 and LCD-3. Now, the tubes I have in WA2 is stock, whereas I use USAF-596 and Sylvania 6DR7's in WA6-SE. I perceive that WA2's smoothness with LCD-x makes them a bit dull to be honest. LCD-3 needs an amp that can pull out the midrange a tad, which WA6-SE with the mentioned tubes definitely does, whereas WA2 doesn't.
   
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> looking for advice on my next set of cans to use with my WA2 and Marantz 2245.
> eyeballing LCD2 (rev 1 most likely, but is there really that big a difference?), HE500 or T1.
> i love the HD650 sound, so i'd think the Audeze would be good, but im also a detail fiend and have loved Beyers as well.  But def prefer'd the 650 over my 990's


 
  I have HD 650 too, and I would definitely get LCD-2 r1 (first) if you enjoy HD 650 a lot. T1 is quite another animal imo.


----------



## ardilla

I agree with Norway that the WA2 doesn't make the LCD-X sound very upfront. I like it that way (too) - but I would imagine the broader appeal will be towards the way that the more powerful transfomer coupled amps like WA6(SE) and WA22 presents the Audezes. I have the WA22 and tend to prefer it to the WA2 with orthos, but I still think the WA2 has its own right with the Audezes - in a more subtle way.
   
  To put it another way: If one needs an amp for an LCD-2/3, the WA6SE  might be the better/safer choice. If you already have got the WA2, there is no reason IMO not to try out the Audezes. (I must add that I haven't heard the WA22 - but from what I read and construction-wise as well - it is close to the WA22)
    


okw3188 said:


> Would like to seek advice on Woo Audio WA6SE versus WA2 driving Audeze LCD-3. My listening preference is mainly jazz vocal & classical symphony, thank you.


 

   
   



norway said:


> True that. I've got WA2, WA6-SE, LCD-2 r1 and LCD-3. Now, the tubes I have in WA2 is stock, whereas I use USAF-596 and Sylvania 6DR7's in WA6-SE. I perceive that WA2's smoothness with LCD-x makes them a bit dull to be honest. LCD-3 needs an amp that can pull out the midrange a tad, which WA6-SE with the mentioned tubes definitely does, whereas WA2 doesn't.
> 
> I have HD 650 too, and I would definitely get LCD-2 r1 (first) if you enjoy HD 650 a lot. T1 is quite another animal imo.


----------



## Pudu

rawrbington said:


> looking for advice on my next set of cans to use with my WA2 and Marantz 2245.
> eyeballing LCD2 (rev 1 most likely, but is there really that big a difference?), HE500 or T1.
> i love the HD650 sound, so i'd think the Audeze would be good, but im also a detail fiend and have loved Beyers as well.  But def prefer'd the 650 over my 990's




Find a way to try out the T1's with your Woo2. Great combo - my favourite sound signature for most music.

The T1's sound great with my Pioneer SX-980: Woo2 for classical and live performances, Pioneer for rock, Tom Waits, anything where a bit more of an edge is preferred.

LCD-2 + Woo2 did nothing special for my ears.


----------



## okw3188

Been listening to my WA2 with an old JAN RCA 6AS7G on classical vocal & Miles Davis jazz. I finally understand the sound of "silky" smooth.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Been listening to my WA2 with an old JAN RCA 6AS7G on classical vocal & Miles Davis jazz. I finally understand the sound of "silky" smooth.


 

 I still find it to be the best tube in the WA2. Enjoy!


----------



## ardilla

WA2 = silky, that's right. If you do not like silky, stay away  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Been listening to my WA2 with an old JAN RCA 6AS7G on classical vocal & Miles Davis jazz. I finally understand the sound of "silky" smooth.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Been listening to my WA2 with an old JAN RCA 6AS7G on classical vocal & Miles Davis jazz. I finally understand the sound of "silky" smooth.


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Been listening to my WA2 with an old JAN RCA 6AS7G on classical vocal & Miles Davis jazz. I finally understand the sound of "silky" smooth.


 
   
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I still find it to be the best tube in the WA2. Enjoy!


 

 Absolutely, I like it even better than Tung-Sol 5998 this far!


----------



## Rawrbington

I like the 6AS7G.  But i have always had issues with noise.
  the best thing about the 6AS7's are they can be found relatively cheap compared to the 5998's


----------



## Norway

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> I like the 6AS7G.  But i have always had issues with noise.
> the best thing about the 6AS7's are they can be found relatively cheap compared to the 5998's


 
  Yes, my tube oracle told me that they need to be closely matched: If the triodes aren't closely matched or there's plate current difference the tubes may hum in circuit. WA2 is picky with these.
   
  5998's was not as warm and silky as the 6AS7G's, but offered better dynamics.


----------



## gmoney80

ok guys so i am ready to buy a wa2 and have the t1 after reading the thread i see that the ez80 rectifier is good enough, and that the 7236 nos tubes are a good upgrade but which driver tubes should i get? are the 6922 jan tubes good for the t1. If you guys recommend a different setup for the t1 at a decent price let me know. thanks everyone!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





gmoney80 said:


> ok guys so i am ready to buy a wa2 and have the t1 after reading the thread i see that the ez80 rectifier is good enough, and that the 7236 nos tubes are a good upgrade but which driver tubes should i get? are the 6922 jan tubes good for the t1. If you guys recommend a different setup for the t1 at a decent price let me know. thanks everyone!


 
   
  the syl 7236 or ts5998 (if you can find them) are almost must-have upgrades. when i bought my wa2 i used this thread which really helped me see some of the options available for the other tubes.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/574969/good-tube-combinations-for-the-woo-audio-2


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> the syl 7236 or ts5998 (if you can find them) are almost must-have upgrades. when i bought my wa2 i used this thread which really helped me see some of the options available for the other tubes.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/574969/good-tube-combinations-for-the-woo-audio-2


 
  Between them, I'd go TS5998s (or TS7236 if you can't get the 5998s).


----------



## Ultrainferno

Or 2399!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

or the super rare we421a


----------



## ardilla

Which will cost more than the amp ;P
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> or the super rare we421a


----------



## Ultrainferno

That depends, I bought the 6AS7G GEC for 17€ once


----------



## chrisld

I have the Woo Audio 2 with stepped attenuator and black gate caps and the Beyerdynamic T1 headphones.
   
  I posted in depth here about the effect of the different tubes. The WA2 is very transparent but sounds terrible with the stock tubes I got with it. You cannot make any meaningful judgement about the WA2 using them. Throw them in the trash would be my advice. At a bare minimum I'd recommend the JJ rectifier and output tubes plus any kind of the large bottle type power tubes. This is an extremely cheap upgrade. For great sound 5998 tubes are a super choice (the 7236 are good too but very different, less air and more powerful sound). I use the Sylvania 7308 which are affordable and very good for output.
   
  Just ordered LCD3 and will report when I get those. Also ordered all the parts for the CAPS 3.0 Carbon.
   
  A product that seems very overlooked and underappreciated is the Apogee Duet 2. It's inexpensive and sounds wonderful having that combination of detail and musicality that's hard to find. It's a Mac only device but handles all bit rates, is driven right from USB and is semi-portable too. Great review of it here:
   
  http://kenrockwell.com/audio/apogee/duet-2.htm


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





chrisld said:


> I have the Woo Audio 2 with stepped attenuator and black gate caps and the Beyerdynamic T1 headphones.
> 
> I posted in depth here about the effect of the different tubes. The WA2 is very transparent but sounds terrible with the stock tubes I got with it. You cannot make any meaningful judgement about the WA2 using them. Throw them in the trash would be my advice. At a bare minimum I'd recommend the JJ rectifier and output tubes plus any kind of the large bottle type power tubes. This is an extremely cheap upgrade. For great sound 5998 tubes are a super choice (the 7236 are good too but very different, less air and more powerful sound). I use the Sylvania 7308 which are affordable and very good for output.


 
   
   
  i currently use Sylvania 7236 with the JAN-Sylvania 7308 and Tesla 6CA4 (EZ81) tubes. as far as i know the tesla rectifier is the older original version of the JJ tubes? 
   
  btw, how are the sylvania 7308 considered affordable? cheapest right now was like $60 a tube somewhere or something. jack sells them as a WA2 upgrade for $260 a pair which i think is ridiculous, i paid alot less, like $40 bucks a pair or something when i got mine.


----------



## chrisld

Sorry I cannot define what you consider affordable. I think for the level of performance it's a great price. Some of the top tubes are $150 per tube or more.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i just don't consider affordable since theres alot of cheaper options available out there.


----------



## chrisld

It sure isn't the cheapest. Read my thread (and others on the merits of each tube). For me the Sylvania 7308 is the cheapest really good sounding tube of that type. If you want one that's cheap and good then I recommend the JJ which is what Jack should ship the WA2 with.
   
  http://tubedepot.com/jj-e88ccg.html


----------



## Dubstep Girl

what about the mullard 2492?
   
   
  and when i bought my WA2 last year, it came with phillips 6922, i didn't like them that much though


----------



## chrisld

Never tried them. They appear to be $150 and out of stock. At that price I assume they're great. I defer to Skylab on these exotic tubes.


----------



## mab1376

Quote: 





ardilla said:


> *Woo WA2 and HE-500 mini-review*
> 
> Well, now I'm listening to "Dearth" by Deathspell Omega through the HE-500 run by the Woo Audio WA2. I cannot really find anything wrong with this setup. I have been listening to other types of music also (classical, modern jazz, flamenco etc, same playlist as I used in the review I link to below).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Interesting, I have the WA22 in my sights specifically for the HE-500 which I don't own yet.
   
  My current OTL amp is the LittleDot MK IV SE, and based on this post make me want to try it with my LittleDot before splurging on a WA22.


----------



## ardilla

Quote: 





mab1376 said:


> Interesting, I have the WA22 in my sights specifically for the HE-500 which I don't own yet.
> 
> My current OTL amp is the LittleDot MK IV SE, and based on this post make me want to try it with my LittleDot before splurging on a WA22.


 
   
  The Little Dot is less powerfiul than the WA2, though


Spoiler: power%20charts



 
  http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=820 vs http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
   
   


  Little Dot
100 mW @ 32 ohm
   
  WA2
  310mW @32Ω, 400mW @60Ω
   
  There are two reasons OTL's arent primary choice for power hungry orthos. 1) OTL's have generally low wattage - but here WA2 is quiet a powerful OTL. 2) Impedance matching. OTL's are by nature high impedance (WA2 is 70 ish output impedance) which generally creates a micmatch for low imp phones. However, impedance dismatch might create a nice sound - generally a bit fatter and fuller. 
   
  In terms of bas control - the WA22 is totally superior. The WA2 has some very appealing advantages in the extremely fluid mids. 
   
  Anyway - try with what you have first


----------



## okw3188

Hi, has anyone tried replacing the E88CC tube with 6CG7 in your WA2?
   
  The thought came to my mind when I was tweaking with tubes on my Lyr (now sold, after upgrading to WA2).


----------



## oldwine

They are both twin triodes, with the same pinout. Apart from that, they are very different: gm, mu, bias, so there's likely to be going a change in sound. Dunno what will sound better, but at first glance, I'd be careful putting a 6CG7 in a circuit optimized for E88CC. The operating point will be rather different, and I suppose there's a risk in running the 6CG7 beyond its maximum ratings
   
  Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Hi, has anyone tried replacing the E88CC tube with 6CG7 in your WA2?
> 
> The thought came to my mind when I was tweaking with tubes on my Lyr (now sold, after upgrading to WA2).


----------



## gln1

I'm new to headphone amps and DAC's. Bought a Senn HD600 new from Amazon last year at a great price and am now going to purchase an amp (with pre-outs) and DAC.  Pretty much decided on the WA2, which is the limit of my budget. Temporarily had purchased a FIIO E10 USB DAC/Amp for $75 last year until I was ready to spend the $ on a good amp. (No enjoyment there, but I was not expecting much.)  I'm hoping the headphone and new amp will keep me happy for a long time, as I'm not one to keep upgrading. (Recently sold my stereo Conrad Johnson PV6 preamp which I had for ~25 years!).  I have a few questions:
   
  -Any reasonably priced tubes I should consider getting from the start?
  -Am considering the Bifrost DAC, would that be too polite of a DAC for the HD600/WA2?
  - Anyone know if the Bifrost and silver WA2 finishes are the same match?
  - Any other DAC suggestions in the <$500 price range?
   
  I'm will be feeding it ripped Flac files and Hirez downloads from USB out.
  (I'll cross post this in the HD600 forum also.)
   
  Thanks,
  Glenn


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





gln1 said:


> I'm new to headphone amps and DAC's. Bought a Senn HD600 new from Amazon last year at a great price and am now going to purchase an amp (with pre-outs) and DAC.  Pretty much decided on the WA2, which is the limit of my budget. Temporarily had purchased a FIIO E10 USB DAC/Amp for $75 last year until I was ready to spend the $ on a good amp. (No enjoyment there, but I was not expecting much.)  I'm hoping the headphone and new amp will keep me happy for a long time, as I'm not one to keep upgrading. (Recently sold my stereo Conrad Johnson PV6 preamp which I had for ~25 years!).  I have a few questions:
> 
> -Any reasonably priced tubes I should consider getting from the start?
> -Am considering the Bifrost DAC, would that be too polite of a DAC for the HD600/WA2?
> ...


 
   
  When I got my WA2 I used the stock tubes for a while just to get accustomed to how the amp sounded.  I purchased my tube stock a while ago and they were all reasonable at the time, although I'm sure the price has gone up since then.  You should still be able to find a good set of matched RCA 6AS7G Black or Grey plate power tubes for a reasonable price.  I also really like the Tungsol 6080 and Chatham 6AS7G power tubes.  For signal tubes, I really like the Sylvania 6DJ8.  www.tubeworld.com is a pretty decent vendor.
   
  Regarding DAC's, I'm not sure if this one is still recommended around here, but I've been using the PS Audio DL III DAC for quite some time and it's been great.  I use the Coax input and also feed over FLAC from my PC (24/192).  It's a combination I have no plans of changing, and they actually match nicely (even the LED's match).


----------



## gln1

Thanks for the tube info, Thaddy.  I agree that listening to it stock is a good idea.  I figured if I would get a shopping list of preferred tubes then I could make some purchases over time whenever I see a good price.


----------



## ardilla

^ Try out the stock tubes first, then ask for advice (that's my advice, at least). My impression is that the stock tubes sometimes suck big time and sometimes are quite all right.  
   
  I'd go for a warmish dac with the WA2 (PS II is warmish FWIR). The WA2 is not warm, just smoooth as silk  Also, avoid bright dac's, the WA2 is not a dark amp.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





gln1 said:


> Thanks for the tube info, Thaddy.  I agree that listening to it stock is a good idea.  I figured if I would get a shopping list of preferred tubes then I could make some purchases over time whenever I see a good price.


 
  My WA2 came with RCA 6080's and some 6922's (I can't remember the brand).  I basically put together my shopping list during this period and ended up with:
   
*Power:* Tungsol 6080, Tungsol 7236, Sylvania 7236, RCA 6AS7G, Chatham 6AS7G, Tung Sol 5998

*Signal:* JAN Phillips 6922, Sylvania 6DJ8

*Rectifier:* Amperex Holland EZ80
   
  I'm actually on the lookout again for a nice pair of Amperex 6DJ8's along with some replacement RCA Blackplate 6AS7G's.  The latter seem to be plentiful, well priced, and offer great overall sound.
   
  Also, I wouldn't necessarily consider the DigitalLink III to be warm.  In my opinion, it matches very well with the WA2 and Sennheiser's.  If anything, I'd say it's accurate and transparent.  I've been listening to this same setup for about 2 years and haven't found a genre it doesn't handle well.


----------



## hodgjy

Hey Thaddy, glad to see you around these parts again.  It's been a while.  Hope all is well with you and your WA2,


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





gln1 said:


> -Any reasonably priced tubes I should consider getting from the start?
> -Am considering the Bifrost DAC, would that be too polite of a DAC for the HD600/WA2?
> - Anyone know if the Bifrost and silver WA2 finishes are the same match?
> - Any other DAC suggestions in the <$500 price range?


 
   
  Obviously the Tung Sol 5998 and Sylvania/Tung-Sol 7236 are the best choices if you can afford them. A very good choice is the RCA 6AS7G, its inexpensive and has a sweet warm sound thats easy to enjoy, i found a pair on ebay for like 10$ a few weeks ago, great bargain tube. The chatham/tung-sol variants are slightly better but harder to find. The stock RCA 6080 is ok for now i think. i myself got the stock GE 6AS7GA when i bought my WA2 and didn't like them too much
   
  for driver tubes, check out the 6N23P-EV tubes (mine are Reflector brand), they're relatively inexpensive and have great bass and a clean forward presentation. A huge bargain IMO, I enjoy them as much as my JAN Sylvania 7308 (which seem to have recently skyrocketed in price). They can be easily found for 40-50ish for a pair and its a steal at that price, they sound very nice. 
   
  rectifiers can be left stock though telefunken/mullard/rft/ei EZ80's are nice. also the old Tesla EZ81 is a good choice as well.
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> My WA2 came with RCA 6080's and some 6922's (I can't remember the brand).  I basically put together my shopping list during this period and ended up with:
> 
> *Power:* Tungsol 6080, Tungsol 7236, Sylvania 7236, RCA 6AS7G, Chatham 6AS7G, Tung Sol 5998
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  +1. the Digital Link is very natural sounding, i think thats the best word for it. its a fantastic dac even today. the biifrost is a great option as well. these are all great tubes, though i'm not a big fan of the JAN Phillips 6922 stock, they're ok though.
   
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Regarding DAC's, I'm not sure if this one is still recommended around here, but I've been using the PS Audio DL III DAC for quite some time and it's been great.  I use the Coax input and also feed over FLAC from my PC (24/192).  It's a combination I have no plans of changing, and they actually match nicely (even the LED's match).


 
   
  +1


----------



## gln1

Thanks for all of the info!
  Glenn


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Hey Thaddy, glad to see you around these parts again.  It's been a while.  Hope all is well with you and your WA2,


 
  Custom IEM's have brought me back 
   
  I supposed I'm considered an old dude around this forum now, but the WA2 is alive and well.


----------



## Thaddy

Question for WA2 owners...how do you like the Sennheiser HD800's?  Are they a good match with the WA2 or am I better off saving some money and getting a pair of HD600's to complement my HD650's?


----------



## hodgjy

From my understanding, the HD600 and HD650 are more alike than they are different, but the HD800s are a completely different beast.
   
  If you are looking for a good complement to your HD650s, but don't want to break the bank, perhaps consider the Beyer DT990/600.  They are are an excellent contrast and complement to my HD600s, and they were magic on my WA3 as well.
   
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Question for WA2 owners...how do you like the Sennheiser HD800's?  Are they a good match with the WA2 or am I better off saving some money and getting a pair of HD600's to complement my HD650's?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Question for WA2 owners...how do you like the Sennheiser HD800's?  Are they a good match with the WA2 or am I better off saving some money and getting a pair of HD600's to complement my HD650's?


 
   
  HD 650 and DT 990-600 both work really well with the WA2. 
   
  and the HD 800s work really well with the WA2. i typically enjoy them with 5998/7236 tubes.
   
   Today actually i just received a pair of RFT EZ80 i bought from ebay after seeing how its a solid choice for an EZ80. and i thinking im starting to really really like the HD 800. the smoothness, clear treble, transparency, its just such a good rectifier, a little better than the Tesla EZ81 i was using and much better than the stock rectifier.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm glad to see the RFT EZ80 love.  It is a lovely tube.  It does nothing wrong, and it has become my workhorse in my Trafomatic.  Everyone seems to rave about the black plate Brimers, but I think the RFT is where it's at.  It could be the magical equivalent to the 596.
   
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> HD 650 and DT 990-600 both work really well with the WA2.
> 
> and the HD 800s work really well with the WA2. i typically enjoy them with 5998/7236 tubes.
> 
> Today actually i just received a pair of RFT EZ80 i bought from ebay after seeing how its a solid choice for an EZ80. and i thinking im starting to really really like the HD 800. the smoothness, clear treble, transparency, its just such a good rectifier, a little better than the Tesla EZ81 i was using and much better than the stock rectifier.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm glad to see the RFT EZ80 love.  It is a lovely tube.  It does nothing wrong, and it has become my workhorse in my Trafomatic.  Everyone seems to rave about the black plate Brimers, but I think the RFT is where it's at.  It could be the magical equivalent to the 596.


 
  I also have a pair of RFT's on the way, looking forward to trying them out.
   
  Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look into the DT 990/600's.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *hodgjy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It could be the magical equivalent to the 596.


 
  yes! 





   
  and they're really cheap too, i got a slightly used pair for 15$ shipped off ebay, and looks like most of them have around 15-20$ for a nib pair.


----------



## Thaddy

Mine were actually delivered today and they're warming up as I type.  They're bigger than I expected, almost as tall as the transformer!


----------



## hodgjy

EZ81s?  They are taller than the EZ80.
   
  Quote: 





thaddy said:


> Mine were actually delivered today and they're warming up as I type.  They're bigger than I expected, almost as tall as the transformer!


----------



## Thaddy

Yeah, I didn't know they were larger.  Worried me for a second before I realized the pin layouts were the same.


----------



## hodgjy

How do they sound?


----------



## Thaddy

I'm noticing a bit more clarity, most notably in the upper and lower ranges.  Definitely more control in the low end, which makes listening to artists like Tool _really_ fun, because I can follow along with every single note of the bass guitar while still being able to separate out the punchier kick drum.  Those are my initial impressions, but so far I'd say they are totally worth $40


----------



## hodgjy

You pretty much described my experience verbatim when switching from my GE (basically a Philips) to the RFT.  I'm glad they're working out for you!


----------



## Thaddy

I've got two inexpensive preamp suggestions for WA2 owners...
   
  AEG ECC88 - http://www.tubemonger.com/Russian_Mil_MINT_NOS_NIB_AEG_ECC88_Tubes_1980s_p/106.htm
  Russian 6922 - http://www.tubemonger.com/MINT_NOS_Russian_6H23n_6922_E88CC_1979_Rocket_Logo_p/1184.htm
   
  Both are very inexpensive and are a great alternative to some of the European options costing 4x as much.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the AEG's are they like a telefunken rebrand or something?


----------



## Thaddy

I believe so.  Although, AEG originally started Telefunken as a joint venture, and the two later merged.


----------



## hodgjy

I have a very high opinion of NOS Russian tubes from the 1960s-1980s.  Built to very tight specs and many sound warm and wonderful.  Can't say the same about new production Russian tubes.  Many are not built to tight specs, a la Electro-Harmonix, and can sometimes sound a little bright and harsh.


----------



## MrTechAgent

Great thread was searching for this combo all over head-fi and after one week found this kinda weird will get this for my 650 next year cannot wait.
  Also if you are reading this comment is the music streamer II good for this setup really cannot spend more than the  $200 range cause shipping in India itself from moon audio is $100


----------



## Dubstep Girl

seems like a decent entry level option.
   
  you could also play it safe and buy an ODAC or something.


----------



## MrTechAgent

Thanks for the reply will do some more research on the ODAC and will get it up against the MS II.
  Thanks


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Any1 know whats the best driver tube to pair with GEC 6AS7G and beyerdynamic T1/HD800, i find bugle boys and amperex a frame 6922 a little bright. Hopefully a warmer tube thats equally as transparent and has good bass


----------



## hodgjy

What rectifiers are you running?  Those make a difference, too.  
  Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> Any1 know whats the best driver tube to pair with GEC 6AS7G and beyerdynamic T1/HD800, i find bugle boys and amperex a frame 6922 a little bright. Hopefully a warmer tube thats equally as transparent and has good bass


----------



## StanT

I'm using a pair of phillips E88cc SQ with large halo getter with the GEC 6as7g. I'm pretty pleased with the sound, though I do not have the other 2 for comparison.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

im using the RFT EZ80.


----------



## hodgjy

Those do have very good high end extension. If your amp is going to the bright side, you can also try some rectifiers in that don't have the same high end, such as a GE, Ei, or Philips.



dubstep girl said:


> im using the RFT EZ80.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

how r the mullard, brimar, telefunken like?


----------



## hodgjy

I haven't tried them in my amp, but this read might give you some good info. I'll say, though, that of all the rectifiers I've used in my Trafo, the RFTs have the most high end extension. I like that with my HD600.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/402215/the-woo-audio-2/510#post_7243933



dubstep girl said:


> how r the mullard, brimar, telefunken like?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I haven't tried them in my amp, but this read might give you some good info. I'll say, though, that of all the rectifiers I've used in my Trafo, the RFTs have the most high end extension. I like that with my HD600.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/402215/the-woo-audio-2/510#post_7243933


 
   
  oh yeah, like the only EZ80/EZ81 comparison on head-fi lol. and it doesn't have the RFT. i also liked the RFT cause they seem to be more clean sounding than the international ez80 and the NOS tesla ez81 i have. also i did notice they had the most high end extension as well
   
  i've been curious about the brimars, though also on the genalex U709/EZ81/6CA4


----------



## ru4music

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> oh yeah, like the only EZ80/EZ81 comparison on head-fi lol. and it doesn't have the RFT. i also liked the RFT cause they seem to be more clean sounding than the international ez80 and the NOS tesla ez81 i have. also i did notice they had the most high end extension as well
> 
> i've been curious about the brimars, though also on the genalex U709/EZ81/6CA4


 

 I'm running the Brimar (Sel Lorenze and GE lable) EZ80 in wa2 with hd800 and hd650.  Very good top to bottom end with defined timbre and sound stage.  I really liked them and agree that they are one of the top rectifier tubes for the wa2.  I also tried valvo ez80 and it had no low bottom end and the jj tesla ez80/81? stock from woo wasn't bad but didn't compare either to the Brimar.  Sorry, don't have a pair of the RFT to compare, I stopped looking after the Brimars.  I'm running Amperex Holland 6922 and 5998, 2399, and Bendix 6080wb graphite tubes with all being NOS matched and balanced.  All sound very good with 5998's having a cleaner better defined low bass region although decreased in volume level.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i still haven't tried any 6080WB on my amp. been curious on them, also the tung sol 7236 which i plan to buy soon.
   
  yeah amperex 6922 and 5998 is one of my favorite here with T1.


----------



## ru4music

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i still haven't tried any 6080WB on my amp. been curious on them, also the tung sol 7236 which i plan to buy soon.
> 
> yeah amperex 6922 and 5998 is one of my favorite here with T1.


 

 How do you like your new ts 7236 tubes and how do they compare with the others?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i like them. very warm very lush though. like sylvania 7236 but the highs are alot smoother and tubier.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i like them. very warm very lush though. like sylvania 7236 but the highs are alot smoother and tubier.


 
  I might get a pair myself. I'm going to get dark tubes next for the WA2 - dark and bassy


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i find tung sol 7236 are kinda like that, darker than 5998 for sure. theres also umm RCA 6AS7G but they aren't as good as tung sol, much less transparent.


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i find tung sol 7236 are kinda like that, darker than 5998 for sure. theres also umm RCA 6AS7G but they aren't as good as tung sol, much less transparent.


 
  Where did you get yours from? ebay.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

tung sol 7236 are near impossible to find.
   
  check vacuumtubes.net i think they sell them and at decent price.
   
  the best source right now is woo audio. i kinda wanna grab another pair, they're really hard to come by.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> tung sol 7236 are near impossible to find.
> 
> check vacuumtubes.net i think they sell them and at decent price.
> 
> the best source right now is woo audio. i kinda wanna grab another pair, they're really hard to come by.


 
  Jack sells them too. That's where I got my first pair. (Hopefully he still has them in stock).


----------



## magiccabbage

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> tung sol 7236 are near impossible to find.
> 
> check vacuumtubes.net i think they sell them and at decent price.
> 
> the best source right now is woo audio. i kinda wanna grab another pair, they're really hard to come by.


 
  there are 7236's on vacumtubes.net, they are 36 euro, but i don't know if they are tung sol. I emailed them so i should get a reply on monday


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i think they have both tung sol and sylvania


----------



## ru4music

Quote: 





dubstep girl said:


> i think they have both tung sol and sylvania


 
  Thanks DG, with hd800, how do they compare with 2399, 5998, and Oh! GEC 6as7G?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Quote: 





ru4music said:


> Thanks DG, with hd800, how do they compare with 2399, 5998, and Oh! GEC 6as7G?


 
   
  2399 and 5998 are the same tube.
   
  the sylvania 7236 is more dynamic and faster sounding than 5998. its a little more midcentric with not as wide of a soundstage, bass is tighter but not as deep, but pretty close. not warm, not bright either. 
   
  the tung sol is the same as sylvania, but the highs are much more rolled off, its a very lush tubey sounding top end, very forgiving. both of these tubes are pretty good.
   
  the 5998 is basically a little leaner, its neutral, but with tube euphonic warmth and a clean full bass with great extension and texture, very well balanced tube. like some guy described in his tube thread, this pretty much sums it up "_Magical combination of control, harmonic richness and transparency"._
   
  the GEC 6AS7G  is the top tube. a little less bass than 5998, but very textured, clean, tight, with decent quantity, the tube has the most treble extension and is very airy, with an analytical nature in terms of detail, very detailed tube, fast yet smooth, very transparent, holographic imaging, and it has the best tonality of all these tubes. beautiful tube sound, its bright yet rich in the mids without sounding colored. its by far the best tube, great synergy with the HD 800s. its better than 5998 and 7236, more transparent, more detail, cleaner sounding, great tube and definitely worth the money. theres 2 versions, straight and curved. similar, except the curved bass has slightly smoother treble and slightly darker mids.


----------



## Norway

Does anyone have specs for the pre outs of the WA2, please? I'm looking for the impedance and max output in voltage.
   
  Also, is it safe for the tubes and amp to run it as a preamp without headphones connected?


----------



## Ultrainferno

Numbers no idea, but a good question. Pre amp without headphones is okay as long as it has a load, right


----------



## Norway

The numbers are in, and to quote Jack:
   
_"The output impedance is  about 100 ohms and it has a 2 volts output on pre out."_


----------



## Norway

Trying a little bit of preamping and system positioning, won't be so messy in the end, haha.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

how do u like WA2 as pre?


----------



## magiccabbage

I tried WA2 as a pre-amp with kef speakers. I didn't like it that much but the other amp was an integrated amp and not a power amp. I wonder if this makes a difference?


----------



## Surfski

Toob Noob.
  
 This is an amazing and long lived thread. In my world, best practices last about a year. So, just checking the current thinking on tubes for WA2. 
  
 A Headphoneus Supremus with great instincts (and a taste for particle physics) suggested the following:
  
 Power Tubes: GEC 6AS7G or Tung Sol 5998
 Driver Tubes: Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle Boy or Amperex orange globe A-frame
 Rectifier: RFT EZ80
  
 Headphones: HD800 and Beyer T1
 Source: Mac + Ayre QB9 DAC (in line for the DSD upgrade)
  
 Personal issues: Aside from a little technology OCD, I'm coming from a slightly dark "neutral" stance...but I'm also good with engagement factor. Prefer bass that is well controlled but also have enough sense of humor to enjoy fun factor. Life is short.
  
 Here's the question:
  
 1. Optimize for T1: which choices?
 2. Optimize for HD800: same question
 3. Optimize for tight bass, holographic imaging, and self induced illusions about neutral + OMG fun can coexist. 
  
 No pressure, all you have to do is synthesize four years of subjective impressions


----------



## Surfski

Oh yeah, music: percussive jazz and avante garde modern. alternative rock, seductive crossover like Allison Krauss, Lumineers, The Civil Wars
 Big classical and heavy metal not so much BUT belongs to the Eric Clapton is God generation. Not stuck there though.


----------



## magiccabbage

surfski said:


> Toob Noob.
> 
> This is an amazing and long lived thread. In my world, best practices last about a year. So, just checking the current thinking on tubes for WA2.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Dubstep Girl written all over it!


----------



## Surfski

Non denial denial. I remain profoundly grateful for informed insights.


----------



## Pudu

magiccabbage said:


> Dubstep Girl written all over it!




Hehe, yep. That's who we need!

Where's the switch for the Dubstep Signal?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

pudu said:


> Hehe, yep. That's who we need!
> 
> Where's the switch for the Dubstep Signal?


 
  
 LOL!!!!!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 are those TH-900s?


----------



## Pudu

Well chuh ! ?!




Spoiler: What ... you prefer the old costume?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

:rolleyes:

In a way the denon look nicer, i remember when u told me i would rue the day i sold them


----------



## Pudu

And you do.


You may not realize it yet.


But you do...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

:confused_face:


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> In a way the denon look nicer, i remember when u told me i would rue the day i sold them


 
  
 One of the headphones that i really want to try, i would love to hear it on the GSX


----------



## magiccabbage

i think they look much nicer than the fostex th900


----------



## Pudu

One thing you should know about DG Surfski, she's apparently not the most reliable of superheroines. 


But she did talk about tubes for different cans in this thread for a bit.


Personally I leave my Woo2 set up for the T1 - which means 5998's. Messing with the power tubes provide the biggest impact on sound.


----------



## Surfski

Pudu, Useful thread on different tubes for different cans. Thx.


----------



## Clayton SF

_*Headfonia has a very nice review on the WA2*_. Great pictures, too. Sometimes you _*can*_ judge a book by it cover.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

omg they finally released the WA2 review they promised on the LF339 review!@#!@#!
  
 exciting **** here.
  
 i see the words silky and smooth are used here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ;won't Ardilla be happy


----------



## tvolpe1600

Ahhh! This is not helping me get through the wait for the GS-X mk2 (I almost went with the WA2 instead).


----------



## magiccabbage

just read the review. Good stuff.


----------



## GrindingThud

Makes me want one... 


magiccabbage said:


> just read the review. Good stuff.


----------



## magiccabbage

grindingthud said:


> Makes me want one...


 
  
 you should, my wa2 is a beauty. soon i will have hd800 and then i will be very happy indeed


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> omg they finally released the WA2 review they promised on the LF339 review!@#!@#!
> 
> exciting **** here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lieven is a indeed a review copycat 
  
 But I still like the WA2 with the LCD-2/3, though.. in a very very silky and smooth way.......


----------



## magiccabbage

ardilla said:


> Lieven is a indeed a review copycat
> 
> But I still like the WA2 with the LCD-2/3, though.. in a very very silky and smooth way.......


 
  
 i did not think it would power them


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> i did not think it would power them


 
  
 depends on your setup, i haven't had very good results (except with RCA 6AS7G), but other people have reported it to work well.
  
 never was able to find out if there ever was some sort of revision to WA2 or something. i know i can get them somewhat loud, but not enough for me.


----------



## eleathar

Hi everyone, I'm planning to buy a WA2 for my HD700s: I'd like to hear from you some impressions about this combo.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WA2 makes any headphones it can drive sound amazing.
  
 from 300 ohm senns to 250 and 600 ohm beyers, its all good.


----------



## eleathar

dubstep girl said:


> WA2 makes any headphones it can drive sound amazing.
> 
> from 300 ohm senns to 250 and 600 ohm beyers, its all good.




Exactly for that reason I'm a bit concerned about the HD700s, being 150 ohm...Maybe not problematic at all, but perhaps not optimal...
I'm looking for an amp that could warms high and mid-high frequencies: actually I feel them too much thin and metallic with Asgard, especially on pop records.


----------



## magiccabbage

eleathar said:


> Exactly for that reason I'm a bit concerned about the HD700s, being 150 ohm...Maybe not problematic at all, but perhaps not optimal...
> I'm looking for an amp that could warms high and mid-high frequencies: actually I feel them too much thin and metallic with Asgard, especially on pop records.


 
  
 I actually heard the hd700 but only briefly about 2 weeks ago. They sounded good through the
 wa2. I dont think yo will have any problems. I was using different tubes though not stock.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

eleathar said:


> Exactly for that reason I'm a bit concerned about the HD700s, being 150 ohm...Maybe not problematic at all, but perhaps not optimal...
> I'm looking for an amp that could warms high and mid-high frequencies: actually I feel them too much thin and metallic with Asgard, especially on pop records.




Wa2 is much better, you can also upgrade to T1 or HD 800 with WA2 in the future


----------



## ardilla

magiccabbage said:


> i did not think it would power them


 
  
 The WA2 with the Audezes work very well for me, regardless of driver tubes I've tried; 6080, 5998, 6A7SG
  
 The WA2 makes the Audezes very laid back, though. But in a way I really like. But not everyone's taste.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yeah makes audezes very thick and tubey analog sounding, quite lush. If you like detail speed and dynamics from the lcd-2 definitely not recommended. For listening at a modest volume and wanting a laid back presentation, its pretty good.


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> Yeah makes audezes very thick and tubey analog sounding, quite lush. If you like detail speed and dynamics from the lcd-2 definitely not recommended. For listening at a modest volume and wanting a laid back presentation, its pretty good.


 
  
 Totally spot on in the bulls eye indeed


----------



## Norway

ardilla said:


> Totally spot on in the bulls eye indeed


 
  
 What you're saying is you're not satisfied until every bit of detail is distorted away? Haha. WA2 is not my top pic for LCD-2 and -3, but I find the amp quite extraordinary with D7000 – _that's_ lushness at its best.
  
 Dubstepgirl, I have two pair of 6AS7G but both are humming a bit (which I've heard is quite common). Are 6AS7G from RCA known to be more silent or should the tubes lie within some threshold measurement wise? If so, do you (or anyone else) know the threshold?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

norway said:


> What you're saying is you're not satisfied until every bit of detail is distorted away? Haha. WA2 is not my top pic for LCD-2 and -3, but I find the amp quite extraordinary with D7000 – _that's_ lushness at its best.
> 
> Dubstepgirl, I have two pair of 6AS7G but both are humming a bit (which I've heard is quite common). Are 6AS7G from RCA known to be more silent or should the tubes lie within some threshold measurement wise? If so, do you (or anyone else) know the threshold?


 
  
 RCA 6AS7G are known to be noisy and microphonic unfortunately. its all luck that you get a good noise-free pair.
  
 i bought a cheap pair for like $12 on ebay and its been problem free, zero noise and microphonics, only some microphonics as its heating up but then zero problems, so YMMV. other 6AS7Gs may or may not have this as well, but the RCA are particularly problematic.


----------



## Norway

Thank you DubstepGirl.
  
 You asked me a couple of days ago how I find WA2 as a preamp. I'm still reviewing it, but the 6AS7G tubes were unusable for the JBL 4430's as there was just to much humming (not that bad with high impedance headphones). Tung Sol 5998 is ok, but then again, you don't get the fantastic sound of 6AS7G. Compared to the preamp in Mytek 192 DSD DAC (which I use as a DAC when WA2 is pre) I think it adds a tad of meat to the bone, but I will probably not use WA2 as preamp in the long run. I think Mytek 192 works fantastic on its own. Also, I see you have one too


----------



## Dubstep Girl

norway said:


> Thank you DubstepGirl.
> 
> You asked me a couple of days ago how I find WA2 as a preamp. I'm still reviewing it, but the 6AS7G tubes were unusable for the JBL 4430's as there was just to much humming (not that bad with high impedance headphones). Tung Sol 5998 is ok, but then again, you don't get the fantastic sound of 6AS7G. Compared to the preamp in Mytek 192 DSD DAC (which I use as a DAC when WA2 is pre) I think it adds a tad of meat to the bone, but I will probably not use WA2 as preamp in the long run. I think Mytek 192 works fantastic on its own. Also, I see you have one too


 
  
 yes the mytek is awesome!!!! pairs great with my GS-X, extremely transparent and revealing, albeit slightly unforgiving at times.
  
 i prefer the 5998 with my beyerdynamic T1 to the GEC 6AS7G. though with the HD 800, the GEC's are a far superior tube, no comparison.
  
 i'm upgrading to WA22 in a couple weeks so i can keep using my rectifiers. if i don't like it though, i'll end up re-buying a WA2 and upgrade my Bugle Boys and Orange Globe A-frames to something better, thinking of PQ Whites or even the legendary Pinched Waist D-getters, oh and gonna get some CCas as well


----------



## Clayton SF

Ah, the time has finally come for me to start selling off some of my audio equipment so that I can move to Europe--or at least visit there more often. So if anyone is interested, _*I am selling my WA2*_. It will ship from Europe. Thanks!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Any rare tubes u might happen to have?


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> Any rare tubes u might happen to have?


 
  
 you have enough tubes! I on the other need lots more.


----------



## eleathar

Finally I pulled the trigger: I will be another WA2 proud owner soon enough, doomed to tube rolling forever!
Shame on you for yours contagious enthusiasm and especially on Ardilla for this mind poisoning thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/615810/the-beauty-and-the-beast-wa2-vs-wa22. )


----------



## ardilla

eleathar said:


> Finally I pulled the trigger: I will be another WA2 proud owner soon enough, doomed to tube rolling forever!
> Shame on you for yours contagious enthusiasm and especially on Ardilla for this mind poisoning thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/615810/the-beauty-and-the-beast-wa2-vs-wa22. )


 
  
 Haha, you are very welcome indeed ;D


----------



## ru4music

Has anyone here listened to the TS 5998 versus the WE 421a tubes on the WA2?  I know the debate between these tubes and I;m looking for someone who may have actually rolled them.  I'm particularly interested in the difference when using Senn. HD-650 and HD-800 phones.  GECs are hitting close to $600 USD per pair, Ouch!
  
 I believe the 421a may be slightly better, however, would the WA2 exploit this difference and would the ROI (cost vs. improvement) be worth it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ru4music said:


> Has anyone here listened to the TS 5998 versus the WE 421a tubes on the WA2?  I know the debate between these tubes and I;m looking for someone who may have actually rolled them.  I'm particularly interested in the difference when using Senn. HD-650 and HD-800 phones.  GECs are hitting close to $600 USD per pair, Ouch!
> 
> I believe the 421a may be slightly better, however, would the WA2 exploit this difference and would the ROI (cost vs. improvement) be worth it.


 
  
 so far i think only a few have heard them, skylab as well as a few other members that have come across them cheap.
  
 regardless of whether its the same tube, slightly better, or if you think it is better, for the money, value, and hell of it, get the GEC 6AS7G instead, especially for HD 800.
  
 the improvements are MASSIVE imo between these 2 tubes and the hd 800, the GEC is far far better with the hd 800. of course, the 5998 are the better value but considering the 421A basically cost almost as much, you might as well just get the GEC.
  
 for HD 800 i think its worth it, especially with good driver/rectifier tubes (siemens or amperex + mullard ez80/brimar ez80/*RFT ez80/*ez81)
  
 with HD 650, you'll probably be happy with either.


----------



## ru4music

New question: Has anyone here listened/ owned the WA5 versus the WA2?  What are your opinions (i.e., should I stop putting money into WA2 tubes and start putting that investment towards the purchase of the WA5?)  Understand that I am pretty much loaded up with tubes (well not by Dupstep Girl's standards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ): 2 pairs NOS 5998, 1 pair NOS 2399, 1 pair NOS Bendix 6080 WB graphites/ slotted, 1 pair TS 6080 graphite, many pair RCA/ Phillips 6as7G and 6080 etc. and etc for driver and EZ 80 rects.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ru4music said:


> New question: Has anyone here listened/ owned the WA5 versus the WA2?  What are your opinions (i.e., should I stop putting money into WA2 tubes and start putting that investment towards the purchase of the WA5?)  Understand that I am pretty much loaded up with tubes (well not by Dupstep Girl's standards
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 you have some nice power tubes tho, i still need to buy a pair of the graphites one of these days, nowhere to be found though.
  
 i really don't have that many power tubes, just a pair of used 5998, a NIB 2399 pair, 2 pairs of Syl 7236, a pair of TS 7236, a pair of RCA 6AS7G, some cheap 6080s, and of course, the 3 pairs of GEC 6AS7G, 2 regular and 1 curved pair.


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> so far i think only a few have heard them, skylab as well as a few other members that have come across them cheap.
> 
> regardless of whether its the same tube, slightly better, or if you think it is better, for the money, value, and hell of it, get the GEC 6AS7G instead, especially for HD 800.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 DG thanks for sharing your experience!  Yes, I am running NOS balanced and matched Amperex (Holland) 6922s/ and 6922 PQs (still need to try the PQs in extended listing as the non PQs sound great) along with Brimar EZ80s.
  
 I think to hear the benefits of the 421a I would need to change/ tweak the bias/ operation point of the WA2's output tube.  I believe that the GEC may be more in line with the standard setup (6as7G/ 6080) of the WA2 which helps to contribute to an increase in SQ you describe.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ru4music said:


> DG thanks for sharing your experience!  Yes, I am running NOS balanced and matched Amperex (Holland) 6922s/ and 6922 PQs (still need to try the PQs in extended listing as the non PQs sound great) along with Brimar EZ80s.
> 
> I think to hear the benefits of the 421a I would need to change/ tweak the bias/ operation point of the WA2's output tube.  I believe that the GEC may be more in line with the standard setup (6as7G/ 6080) of the WA2 which helps to contribute to an increase in SQ you describe.


 
  
 ooooh PQ's, i never got to hear them myself, but if i do not like the WA22 i'm about to buy, i'll end up getting those with WA2.
  
 i currently use Bugle boys for HD 800 and orange glove A-frame 6DJ8s for the beyerdynamic t1, i find the RFT EZ 80 rectifiers to be a step above most EZ80/EZ81 and to have extended treble and transparency, they never sound slow or muddy or rolled off, very well balanced with no flaws, they're cheap too!
  
 i know that 421A might not sound as good as GEC with HD 800 regardless, even if they are an improved 5998, i think the GEC have a superior sound signature, mostly in tonal balance, the tube is very detailed, textured, and has a tonality that is far superior to the 5998, it just sounds very beautiful, thats the best way to describe it. the bass is more balanced and textured than 5998, though not as strong, but it doesn't lose any extension, which is a huge plus.


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> you have some nice power tubes tho, i still need to buy a pair of the graphites one of these days, nowhere to be found though.
> 
> i really don't have that many power tubes, just a pair of used 5998, a NIB 2399 pair, 2 pairs of Syl 7236, a pair of TS 7236, a pair of RCA 6AS7G, some cheap 6080s, and of course, the 3 pairs of GEC 6AS7G, 2 regular and 1 curved pair.


 
 Wow,  You only have three pairs of GECs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !  You better get busy cause your slipp'n 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .
  
 Interesting that you mentioned the graphite(s.)  I was planning on rolling in the Bendix slotted in this evening as I have not listened to them with the HD-800 and Matrix X-Sabre DAC yet.  I will let you know how that turns out (even though you may sell your WA2, but I guess they may sport well in a WA22 also!)


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i just posted my WA2 for sale to get WA22. if i miss my WA2 , regardless of whether i like the WA22, i might just end up rebuying this amp. its such a lovely amp and i've felt the most connected with this amp out of any that i've owned.
  
 might just end up like Ardilla.....


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> i just posted my WA2 for sale to get WA22. if i miss my WA2 , regardless of whether i like the WA22, i might just end up rebuying this amp. its such a lovely amp and i've felt the most connected with this amp out of any that i've owned.
> 
> *might just end up like Ardilla.....*


 
  
 And that is not as bad as it might seem


----------



## Aethelred

I've actually heard WA2 with WE421s and to me not worth it. I do not care about 5998 TSs either. Still my reference Curved Brown Base 6AS7G. Warmth musicality and body. Everything in one. Those side by side with Valvo red D-getter E188CC and EZ80 from RTF is my go for setup in WA2. Second best tube for me is any other 6AS7G. 5998 TS might be good for Sennheiser HD650 but for W5000 my preference goes to what I've stated above.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

aethelred said:


> I've actually heard WA2 with WE421s and to me not worth it. I do not care about 5998 TSs either. Still my reference Curved Brown Base 6AS7G. Warmth musicality and body. Everything in one. Those side by side with Valvo red D-getter E188CC and EZ80 from RTF is my go for setup in WA2. Second best tube for me is any other 6AS7G. 5998 TS might be good for Sennheiser HD650 but for W5000 my preference goes to what I've stated above.


 
  
 depending on your headphone the tube preference will be very different. the 5998 is a good tube just that it sounds different and isn't always best for your headphones.
  
 i only like the 5998 with the Beyerdynamic T1 and HD 650/600. the 5998 will not work with the HD 800.
  
 likewise,
  
 the GEC 6AS7G is far far better with HD 800 than the other headphones. i would never use this tube with beyerdynamic t1, just don't like it.
  
 the RFT EZ80 is my favorite, nothing else i heard sounds as transparent and well balanced.


----------



## ru4music

Thanks for the feedback regarding the WE421a.  I saw a NOS pair on ebay about a week ago for $379 a pair (they are sold now) and was just curious.


----------



## ru4music

I also ran my Bendix 6080 WB graphite(s) in the WA2 with my HD 800.  Very good tube, fuller sounding with more bass and impact with great instrument separation as compared to the more refined controlled sound of the TS 5998.  I wouldn't say better necessarily, but different in regards that the supporting/backup vocals and instruments are more forward and carry almost the same weight as the lead portions.  It really gives the WA2 the sound of a different amp while keeping the high standards of the WA2.  The tubes play all types of music very well and may be particularly a good fit for rock etc.


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> depending on your headphone the tube preference will be very different. the 5998 is a good tube just that it sounds different and isn't always best for your headphones.
> 
> i only like the 5998 with the Beyerdynamic T1 and HD 650/600. *the 5998 will not work with the HD 800.*
> 
> ...


 
 I find this interesting because in my setup the TS 5998 is sounding pretty sweet with my HD 800 and I have two HD 650s (different cables ) to compare against.  In fact, I would  highly recommend the 5998.  Now, if only I could find some GECs fairly cheap.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ru4music said:


> I find this interesting because in my setup the TS 5998 is sounding pretty sweet with my HD 800 and I have two HD 650s (different cables ) to compare against.  In fact, I would  highly recommend the 5998.  Now, if only I could find some GECs fairly cheap.




I find that the 5998 still has a sort of veil with hd 800s, its just too thick sounding imo. The gec didnt have that, it was warm yet transparent.


----------



## M Coupe

So just spent an hour with each new rectifier... Iam trying to wrap my head around what I am hearing to be honest but the improvement over the stock tube is obvious.
  
 The 596 sounds dynamic, fast, accurate in my first hour but very pleasant.
  
 The Sophia Princess, sounds much improved over the stock tube but a little more polite...not sure how else to put it.
  
 Oh well, I will spend a lot more time with these two and have more to share later.  I know this ground has been covered but figured one more person's ears on a set of tubes may not hurt.
  
 Happy Friday all and cheers!


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> I find that the 5998 still has a sort of veil with hd 800s, its just too thick sounding imo. The gec didnt have that, it was warm yet transparent.


 
  
  
 Yes, I just listened to the hd 800 vs 650 again and I definitely would chose the hd 800 for clarity and less congestion.  To my ear the 650 (in this comparison) has a more pronounce veil.  However, I could see a little warmth and euphonics being added as an improvement as you reference in the GECs.  This is great; always more improvement to chase after!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

If you can find GeC tubes, i think the improvement over 5998 is well worth it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

m coupe said:


> So just spent an hour with each new rectifier... Iam trying to wrap my head around what I am hearing to be honest but the improvement over the stock tube is obvious.
> 
> The 596 sounds dynamic, fast, accurate in my first hour but very pleasant.
> 
> ...




Sounds right. The 596 with 6fd7 or 6gl7 is the best ive heard with lcd-2!

The stock tube is merely a "does the amp work" tube. Its terrible unfortunately. Congested, muddy, harsh,etc.


----------



## ru4music

m coupe said:


> So just spent an hour with each new rectifier... Iam trying to wrap my head around what I am hearing to be honest but the improvement over the stock tube is obvious.
> 
> The 596 sounds dynamic, fast, accurate in my first hour but very pleasant.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hey!  How did you fit 596 rectifiers in a WA 2?  You do know this is a WA 2 thread don't you!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ru4music said:


> Hey!  How did you fit 596 rectifiers in a WA 2?  You do know this is a WA 2 thread don't you!




Lol!!!


----------



## M Coupe

Now I do


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> Lol!!!


 
  
  
 DG, u're still selling your WA 2 to fund a WA 22 correct?  I'll be very interested in hearing your opinions on the WA 22 (once you get it.)   I've got maybe 1000 hours on my WA 2 and 300 - 350 hours on supporting equip. (e.g. phones, DAC, cables , and etc.) and it is just starting to really *really* impress me.  I can understand when you said you may repurchase it, even with the WA 22!  This WA 2 is absolutely a very well designed and engineer product by Woo Audio (disclaimer: no association with Woo Audio); it's a keeper and contender with some of the best products out there.  Just wanted to share: the more I use this amp the more impressed I am with the product as a whole (and with my back ground, that is a sincere compliment!) - pardon my humility


----------



## ru4music

m coupe said:


> Now I do


 
  
 I actually would love to hear the WA 2 fitted with the MIGHTY 596'ers!  You've got connections, broach the subject with Clayton and or etc.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ru4music said:


> DG, u're still selling your WA 2 to fund a WA 22 correct?  I'll be very interested in hearing your opinions on the WA 22 (once you get it.)   I've got maybe 1000 hours on my WA 2 and 300 - 350 hours on supporting equip. (e.g. phones, DAC, cables , and etc.) and it is just starting to really *really* impress me.  I can understand when you said you may repurchase it, even with the WA 22!  This WA 2 is absolutely a very well designed and engineer product by Woo Audio (disclaimer: no association with Woo Audio); it's a keeper and contender with some of the best products out there.  Just wanted to share: the more I use this amp the more impressed I am with the product as a whole (and with my back ground, that is a sincere compliment!) - pardon my humility :atsmile:




Yes

And i feel the same way about WA2. To me, it does nothing wrong and would serve as a perfect endgame for beyerdynamic t1 and even hd 800.


----------



## Ultrainferno

ru4music said:


> I actually would love to hear the WA 2 fitted with the MIGHTY 596'ers!  You've got connections, broach the subject with Clayton and or etc.


 
  
  
 I sold Clayton's WA2 this week


----------



## Revogamer

Looking at getting a WA2 in the future (if funds permit!)

 Currently running:

 Schiit Bifrost USB - > Woo WA6 w/ Princess Sophia - > HD800/T1
  
 Without thinking of tubes for now would the WA2 be a good upgrade overall? 

 Was thinking about TH-900's to add into the fray further down the line too (Wanting a closed phone too)

 Thoughts?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

th-900 may or may not work well with wa2 cause low impedance. some tubes like 6as7g can allow it to work somewhat ok also depending on your source

after upgrading tubes, the wa2 will be much much better than wa6 for hd800 and especiallyfor t1


----------



## Revogamer

Hmm.. thought so - are there any mid range amps you would recommend with the TH-900's as well? 
  
 Your posts and thought's are very helpful DG! 
  
 You have definately helped my path quite a bit as of late!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

revogamer said:


> Hmm.. thought so - are there any mid range amps you would recommend with the TH-900's as well?
> 
> Your posts and thought's are very helpful DG!
> 
> You have definately helped my path quite a bit as of late!


 
  
 thanks!
  
 well for one, i do highly recommend you get the WA2 first for the T1/HD800. i can't see anything else in the 1k range comparing if you're using both those headphones, the T1/WA2 pairing is so good, i could easily live with it as an endgame, upgrading to WA22, but i might still re-buy the WA2. the HD 800 is great as well. 
  
 anyways for the TH-900, i think any regular SS amp would be a good choice. they don't take much to drive them. i would get an amp with a lower output impedance for them to have a more balanced yet still fun presentation. they become bass monsters with high output impedance, like even more than Denon D7000, but they also end up having other issues. anyways, any amp can drive the TH-900, better amps just reduce the grain. mid-level, i think you'll be fine with one of the schiit amps (not the lyr, the asgard). maybe if you want to spend more money, something like a baby soloist would be good too.


----------



## Revogamer

WA2 it is to start!
  
 WA22 review when you get it! will be interesting to see your thoughts~
  
 Then TH900 and trying solid states.. shall post once the WA2 arrives - might be a little while still..


----------



## Dubstep Girl

revogamer said:


> WA2 it is to start!
> 
> WA22 review when you get it! will be interesting to see your thoughts~
> 
> Then TH900 and trying solid states.. shall post once the WA2 arrives - might be a little while still..


 
  
 i still have to put up a GS-X review soon. i think sometime this week if i have time.
  
 if you buy WA2, i'd love to hear your impressions.


----------



## Revogamer

dubstep girl said:


> i still have to put up a GS-X review soon. i think sometime this week if i have time.
> 
> if you buy WA2, i'd love to hear your impressions.


 
  
 Shall post up with my impressions once i have it


----------



## ru4music

dubstep girl said:


> Yes
> 
> And i feel the same way about WA2. To me, it does nothing wrong and would serve as a perfect endgame for beyerdynamic t1 and even hd 800.


 
 Well, we'll see how long it takes before you buy another... I'm also interested in your impressions once you get the WA22 (you know, with my Mighty 596ers on the way.)


----------



## eleathar

After only 10 days from my order, I received my brand new WA2 here, in Italy.
First of all, I really cannot say how happy I’m: this gorgeous amp can really make shine my Hd700s and I say this after only few minutes of warm up with stock tubes; I imagine that with burn in and tube rolling, things can only go better.

Coming from a SS amp, the Schiit Asgard 1, that I keep considering a real bargain, I immediately noticed how WA2 affected my HPs signature: while conserving their revealing nature, they have lost any excess of brightness, any metallic thin sound, any emphasis on cymbals and, definitely, any hint of fatigue.

I find myself cranking up volume because I’m really enjoying what I hear: with Asgard, I could not keep the volume after 10 o’ clock for more than few minutes, because treble seemed to raise up more than other frequencies, giving to my head a sort of tension that I could not describe otherwise: not exactly a headache but think about a bit of pressure around head. 

I read somewhere that Senn headphones really love tube amps: I could not agree more!

I don’t know if this is Woodoo magic, but it seems I bought new headphones along with my WA2: sound seems to flow from them like the sweetest nectar I ever tasted. 
Deep bass, enticing mids, silky™ highs: music is there, definitely, and I’m enjoying all kinds of it, even tracks I considered too bright less than one day ago. What surprises me more is having all that good without losing any detail: moreover I’m experiencing enhanced layering of different instruments and a more expansive sound.

How can this be possible? I don’t know, I’m really not a technician, but I have a suspect about it and maybe any of you can confirm or deny what I’m saying.
My headphones have nominally 150 ohms impedance but, they have way more on low frequencies (380 ohms @100 Hz): WA2, maybe for being OTL, delivers more power @300 ohms (640mW) than @120 ohms (550mW). 
I don’t know if this could be, possibly, the reason I’m experiencing a warmer sound or if it is only the tube factor: I only know that I'm liking the result!

More to come next days, maybe a full review: now I have to discover my music again!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

eleathar said:


> After only 10 days from my order, I received my brand new WA2 here, in Italy.
> First of all, I really cannot say how happy I’m: this gorgeous amp can really make shine my Hd700s and I say this after only few minutes of warm up with stock tubes; I imagine that with burn in and tube rolling, things can only go better.
> 
> Coming from a SS amp, the Schiit Asgard 1, that I keep considering a real bargain, I immediately noticed how WA2 affected my HPs signature: while conserving their revealing nature, they have lost any excess of brightness, any metallic thin sound, any emphasis on cymbals and, definitely, any hint of fatigue.
> ...


 
  
  
 ahhh yes, silky™ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 the WA2 is a much better amp than the asgard as well when it comes to driving high impedance headphones. and its a very musical yet transparent amp. just wait till you upgrade tubes. especially if you get GEC 6AS7G or Tung Sol 5998


----------



## Pudu

eleathar said:


> After only 10 days from my order, I received my brand new WA2 here, in Italy.... now I have to discover my music again!




Jealous. :tongue_smile:


----------



## eleathar

> Jealous.


 

I've been lucky, or maybe I just bothered Jack with too many emails! 

In the beginning I was leaning toward WA7, for its minimal design, but when I asked Jack for his personal preference in amp matching with Hd700s, he admitted to prefer the warmer sound of WA2. 

From what I read in this forum, he seems to particularly appreciate WA2 in general, but I'm very happy of his suggestion: sound is really astonishing and, in addition, I'm fond of WA2 design!


----------



## magiccabbage

I was thinking of going for the WA22 next but i don think that will happen now. Dont like the way people say its leaner. I will stick with WA2 for the foreseeable future.


----------



## ardilla

magiccabbage said:


> I was thinking of going for the WA22 next but i don think that will happen now. Dont like the way people say its leaner. I will stick with WA2 for the foreseeable future.


 
  
 I is not leaner. It is bolder. I have both - since I din't manage to see any of them go, haha. If you follow the Woo thread, Dubstep Girl is posting impressions after getting the WA22 in place of the WA2.


----------



## magiccabbage

ardilla said:


> I is not leaner. It is bolder. I have both - since I din't manage to see any of them go, haha. If you follow the Woo thread, Dubstep Girl is posting impressions after getting the WA22 in place of the WA2.


 
  
 I have been following it, leaner is the wrong word so. Less bass. I have to admit i expected the hd800 to have a lean sound because of what most people said about it. It turned out completely different when i heard it a few weeks ago. I though it had loads of bass and it sounded really warm to me - using WA2. 
  
 So maybe the Wa22 would be similar. God knows what i would hear if i listened to it.


----------



## ardilla

magiccabbage said:


> I have been following it, leaner is the wrong word so. Less bass. I have to admit i expected the hd800 to have a lean sound because of what most people said about it. It turned out completely different when i heard it a few weeks ago. I though it had loads of bass and it sounded really warm to me - using WA2.
> 
> So maybe the Wa22 would be similar. God knows what i would hear if i listened to it.




I do not agree with the less s bass thing. Did you read my wa2/22 comparison/review? (if so I shall not start t repeating myself...)


----------



## magiccabbage

ardilla said:


> I do not agree with the less s bass thing. Did you read my wa2/22 comparison/review? (if so I shall not start t repeating myself...)


 
  
 the beauty and the beast thread? I haven't been to that thread for ages, cant really remember the impressions. I will give it a look now. 
  
 Oh, im headphoneus supremus now. nice


----------



## Clayton SF

Here's my fast take on these amps.
 Although Ultra- just sold my WA2 for me, I still own the others.
  
 WA6, surprisingly a great little amp. Although the sound is not as expansive as the other Woos, it definitely holds its own.
 WA2, a great amp with high definition in its sound structure. The bass is well defined but not as deep as the WA22
 WA22, encompasses what I would say is an all-around, high-end tube amp that captures subtle nuances from top to bottom. With boom and vigor!
 WA4 (2004), (tubes: 6C19, 12AU7, 6922, no tube rectification) it has slightly less bass presence but it is my favorite of all the Woos I own.
 WA4 (2011), (tubes: 6C19, 12AU7, EZ81 rectifier) very clean and loud. It is probably better suited for low sensitivity headphones. I wish I could try it with planar headphones because it sounds very powerful with enough to drive them. But I really don't know.


----------



## magiccabbage

clayton sf said:


> Here's my fast take on these amps.
> Although Ultra- just sold my WA2 for me, I still own the others.
> 
> WA6, surprisingly a great little amp. Although the sound is not as expansive as the other Woos, it definitely holds its own.
> ...


 
  
 What does the 2004 WA4 look like?


----------



## Clayton SF

magiccabbage said:


> What does the 2004 WA4 look like?


 
  
 Both the 2004 and 2011 WA4 have the same chassis. They just use different tubes.


----------



## ardilla

Does it have 6 transformers?


----------



## Clayton SF

ardilla said:


> Does it have 6 transformers?


 
  
 It may have 4 potted transformers and 2 chokes but that is just a guess. This are the internals. The 2004 model serial no. 2 has Black Gate and V Cap capacitors:


----------



## ardilla

Why did Woo stop making them?


----------



## magiccabbage

ardilla said:


> Why did Woo stop making them?


 
  
 ran out of materials


----------



## Clayton SF

I don't know. But I ordered one in 2009 and he told me that they were discontinued but that he might have enough WA4 parts left to build another. He then contacted me 2 years later and said that If I were still interested in a WA4 he would custom build one for me. At that point I had just bought a used one (2004 model) and couldn't pass up getting a brand new one. So I ordered it. But he said that it would be the latest design which used the EZ81 rectifier. That's how I came to have both models.


----------



## magiccabbage

jack said that it was to hard to find the components.


----------



## Clayton SF

The WA4 also uses the Russian 6C19 tube. It is cool looking and glows really brightly.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

the WA22 seems to have a much better midrange than WA2, not sure what i think of it though, seems like its not bass light, and the bass does extend deeper, just its harder to hear because of how much more forward the midrange is. its further back, and i don't know if i like that. i'll have to keep rolling tubes though. more noticeable with T1 than with HD 800, hd 800 seems to pair very good with WA22.
  
 i don't know if the much better midrange is worth the trade off for bass and a pitch black background of the WA2.
  
 treble seems more present on the WA22, but both are quite smooth and forgiving, the WA2 a little more depending on tubes. the WA22 has a warmer lusher midrange, but not as silky smooth or as relaxed.


----------



## ardilla

I feel the 22 has a more pronounced upper midrange which makes it more forward.


----------



## Norway

Dubstepgirl, what would you say about WA6-SE vs WA22?
  
 I hope you'll find some tubes that'll make you happy. Not sure if you recall this, but I got WA2 after I had owned WA6-SE for a while, and I was completely let down until I started rolling tubes – stock sucked. I even PM'ed you for advice on the matter and you helped me a lot. Now WA2 gives great joy.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

norway said:


> Dubstepgirl, what would you say about WA6-SE vs WA22?
> 
> I hope you'll find some tubes that'll make you happy. Not sure if you recall this, but I got WA2 after I had owned WA6-SE for a while, and I was completely let down until I started rolling tubes – stock sucked. I even PM'ed you for advice on the matter and you helped me a lot. Now WA2 gives great joy.


 
 WA2 sucks stock, more than WA6-SE, but after tube rolling, i personally think it becomes better, especially with high impedance. more transparent, sweeter, better tone and timbre, etc.
  
 haven't listened long enough, but even though WA22 and WA6-SE are more closely related than WA6-SE and WA2, they're nothing alike. the WA22 is much more lush and tube sounding, soundstage even larger than WA6-SE and alot more tube-like in its presentation. 
  
 the WA6-SE is more SS like, even when tube rolling, you still hear its dynamics and energy. out of all of them WA6-SE is still the most dynamic and tends to be more neutral as well, especially with tubes like the 596 and 6FD7. u can get some nice tube warmth out of WA6-SE but nothing like the other amps, not as laidback.
  
  
  
  
  Quote:


ardilla said:


> I feel the 22 has a more pronounced upper midrange which makes it more forward.


 
  
 this also seems to unfortunately recess the lower midrange on some recordings, just depending on how they're done. its not huge, but its there. i see the WA22 with its midrange being very good for rock music as well as older recordings that could use more midrange presence. its almost grado-ish in a way, i can see this being a very good amp for that type of music. just a very lively midrange, much more than the Wa2


----------



## Dubstep Girl

just tried brimar 5R4GY on Wa22, yup, made it too warm for me, i think even the GEC 6AS7G are borderline too lush on WA22 whereas they where just right on the WA2. i actually feel like the power tubes sound better on WA2 than on WA22.
  
 contrary to what other people are finding, i think 5998 still sounds better than tung sol 7236, on both WA2 and WA22.


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> just tried brimar 5R4GY on Wa22, yup, made it too warm for me, i think even the GEC 6AS7G are borderline too lush on WA22 whereas they where just right on the WA2. i actually feel like the power tubes sound better on WA2 than on WA22.
> 
> contrary to what other people are finding, i think 5998 still sounds better than tung sol 7236, on both WA2 and WA22.





It is interesting that someone who knows her tubes so well finds them to sound so different these amps.


----------



## ardilla

@DG: Are you trying to make the wa22 sound like a wa2? Maybe you are analyzing too much to appreciate the good that wa22 brings. Interesting reading, though


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> @DG: Are you trying to make the wa22 sound like a wa2? Maybe you are analyzing too much to appreciate the good that wa22 brings. Interesting reading, though


 
  
 nope. but im trying to make WA22 have a little more punch in the bass and slightly less warm in the mids. it seems its easier for the WA22 to sound tubey than the WA2 or WA6-SE.
  
 right now i have 6F8G TS, GEC 6AS7G , and EML 274B with HD 800. it seems like the EML 274B is actually a tube that has the sound im looking for.... warm but not too much, punchy, great soundstage


----------



## Dubstep Girl

ardilla said:


> It is interesting that someone who knows her tubes so well finds them to sound so different these amps.


 
  
 they do!!
  
 the 596 really surprised me on WA22, not as dry and aggressive as on WA6-SE.


----------



## Norway

Great read from you as usual Dubbie!
  
 Currently using Mytek 192 DSD with FireWire and doing DSD through foobar to WA2 with TS 5998, driving HD 650. Seems like these tubes have burned in, as they were very harsh earlier, but now they are becoming less edgy. Have been a big fan of 6AS7G with HD 650 for their utter lush smoothlyness – which at times can become too much, especially for HD 650.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I found the GEC 6SN7GT (B65 type) with metal base gave a nice alternative in rolling taming the bass richness and made it lighter and more delicate. They paired well with GEC A1834s. Currently running some 7N7s, had good results with 5692 also which kept a tight grip on the sound.


----------



## ru4music

norway said:


> Great read from you as usual Dubbie!
> 
> Currently using Mytek 192 DSD with FireWire and doing DSD through foobar to WA2 with TS 5998, driving HD 650. Seems like these tubes have burned in, as they were very harsh earlier, but now they are becoming less edgy. Have been a big fan of 6AS7G with HD 650 for their utter lush smoothlyness – which at times can become too much, especially for HD 650.


 
 Yes, the WA 2 and 5998's need time to burn in.  I am running foobar (DSD formats and standard Red Book 44.1khz 16 bit) /USB/ Matrix X Sabre DAC/ WA 2/ HD 800 and the sound on good/ great recordings is sensational.  The HD 800 will bring even more detail and sonic traits than the HD 650 (of which I own two pair.)
  
 I recall when I first got my WA 2 and burned it in for the first 100 hours or so I thought that I had made a big mistake even comparing it to my legacy WA 3, I have now totally change my mind!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

nic rhodes said:


> I found the GEC 6SN7GT (B65 type) with metal base gave a nice alternative in rolling taming the bass richness and made it lighter and more delicate. They paired well with GEC A1834s. Currently running some 7N7s, had good results with 5692 also which kept a tight grip on the sound.


 
  
  
 are the metal base B65 like really expensive and hard to find?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

norway said:


> Great read from you as usual Dubbie!
> 
> Currently using Mytek 192 DSD with FireWire and doing DSD through foobar to WA2 with TS 5998, driving HD 650. Seems like these tubes have burned in, as they were very harsh earlier, but now they are becoming less edgy. Have been a big fan of 6AS7G with HD 650 for their utter lush smoothlyness – which at times can become too much, especially for HD 650.


 
  


ru4music said:


> Yes, the WA 2 and 5998's need time to burn in.  I am running foobar (DSD formats and standard Red Book 44.1khz 16 bit) /USB/ Matrix X Sabre DAC/ WA 2/ HD 800 and the sound on good/ great recordings is sensational.  The HD 800 will bring even more detail and sonic traits than the HD 650 (of which I own two pair.)
> 
> I recall when I first got my WA 2 and burned it in for the first 100 hours or so I thought that I had made a big mistake even comparing it to my legacy WA 3, I have now totally change my mind!


 
  
  
 thanks. i hated 5998 when i first got them, but now i love them alot and they're one of the best 6AS7G tube type along with the GEC A1834 and 7236.


----------



## Norway

Dubstepgirl, have you tried setting the internal jumpers of Mytek to reduce it with 6dB?
  
 Mytek is pretty hot, with 7Vrms max for single ended and 15Vrms for balanced, but by setting the internal jumpers you can reduce the outputs to 3.5V and 7.5V respectively.
  
 You could check the input sensitivity of WA22 as I'm not sure of this, but I know that a mismatch here *can* bring forth harshness.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Yes jumpers are -6db

Havent necessarily noticed any harshness on wa22 per se...


----------



## ardilla

Why.is the standard output 7 / 15 vrms? Thought the standard was 2 / 4


----------



## Jd007

ardilla said:


> Why.is the standard output 7 / 15 vrms? Thought the standard was 2 / 4




There is no such standard at 2/4Vrms as far as I know (at least not defined/governed by any standard organization). A lot of DACs especially ones targeting professional or studio use will have higher output levels (especially on XLR our) because pro equipment traditionally expects higher output levels. A lot of DACs do follow the 2/4Vrms levels as consumer equipment (such as self-powered speakers) cannot handle hotter signals without distorting/clipping. But for stand alone desktop sized amps, almost all of them should be able to handle the hotter outputs, at least up to 7-8Vrms for XLR (15 is a bit high).

DACs with relatively high output levels (6Vs+) on XLR include the Mytek, Calyx 24/192, Matrix X-Sabre, most MSB DACs, to name a few. Most Audio-GD DACs also output at 5Vrms. Haven't heard any issues with any of these amps (except the Mytek which before setting the jumpers to lower the RCA level it did cause clipping with my powered speakers).


----------



## webegrubbin

I have a yamaha rx-a3030 AVR which I plan to connect to my Woo Audio2 via interconnects. The AVR will stream flac files from my network hard drive and send the signal to the WA2 for headphone listening. In this case, i believe the AVR is acting as a preamp, and the WA2 is the power amp for my headphones. I know that the WA2 also functions as a preamp. My question is: can I then connect a power amp (used for loudspeakers) to the preamp outputs of the WA2 and use the WA2 as a preamp when I listen to my loudspeakers? So my connection would be AVR-> WA2-> power amp-> loudspeakers. I guess this means that both the AVR and WA2 are acting as preamps? Is this ok?


----------



## drewTT

I just ordered this amp.  How good are the stock tubes?  I am already thinking about upgrading and I noticed that Woo Audio has upgraded tubes available?  Are those the best choice?  Which set of tubes makes the biggest difference? Power, driver, or rectifier or do all three at the same time?
  
 Thx.


----------



## drewTT

webegrubbin said:


> I have a yamaha rx-a3030 AVR which I plan to connect to my Woo Audio2 via interconnects. The AVR will stream flac files from my network hard drive and send the signal to the WA2 for headphone listening. In this case, i believe the AVR is acting as a preamp, and the WA2 is the power amp for my headphones. I know that the WA2 also functions as a preamp. My question is: can I then connect a power amp (used for loudspeakers) to the preamp outputs of the WA2 and use the WA2 as a preamp when I listen to my loudspeakers? So my connection would be AVR-> WA2-> power amp-> loudspeakers. I guess this means that both the AVR and WA2 are acting as preamps? Is this ok?


 

 Technically, in this case, you would want your AVR to just act as a source.  Since most likely the volume control in the AVR cannot be disabled, I would set the volume control on your AVR at "reference" or "0" and just use the WA2's volume control.


----------



## webegrubbin

drewtt said:


> I just ordered this amp.  How good are the stock tubes?  I am already thinking about upgrading and I noticed that Woo Audio has upgraded tubes available?  Are those the best choice?  Which set of tubes makes the biggest difference? Power, driver, or rectifier or do all three at the same time?
> 
> Thx.


Stock tubes aren't too good in my opinion. From my experience, power tubes and preamp tubes make the biggest impact. Rectifier tubes not so much


----------



## ardilla

The biggest tubes has the biggest impact  
  
 Stock tubes vary. If you are on a budget, listen to them and come back for advice, if not - have some fun at ebay 
  
 Woo tubes are probably good upgrades, and my impression is that their tubeprices are decent.


----------



## drewTT

Thanks guys.  This amp will also be used everyday as a preamp for my amp/speakers.
  
 Therefore, I believe I would want the best driver tubes.
  
 What is the consensus on the Amperax 7308 Woo offers as an upgrade?
  
 I might just add it to my order if it makes a huge difference.  Since I understand that tubes need about 150+ hours to break in, it would make sense to start with good tubes.
  
 Or am I doing it wrong?


----------



## ardilla

drewtt said:


> Thanks guys.  This amp will also be used everyday as a preamp for my amp/speakers.
> 
> Therefore, I believe I would want the best driver tubes.
> 
> ...


 
 1) It will make a world of difference!
  
 2) Of course you are!
  
 (just kidding. Just get the tubes, start rolling. Swapping tubes is like drinking different coffees, wines or teas. Just start rolling the tubes. Woo upgrades are generally good and the tubes are not overpriced, but you can check out ebay for reference)


----------



## drewTT

ardilla said:


> drewtt said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks guys.  This amp will also be used everyday as a preamp for my amp/speakers.
> ...




Great, sounds like another money pit. Lol.


----------



## ardilla

drewtt said:


> Great, sounds like another money pit. Lol.


 
  
 Yup. But look at it this way: With SS amps you have to swap the whole amp to get a new sound, with tubes you just swap the tubes


----------



## Frank I

The best thing I have found is that you can always fine tune the amp to whatever mood  and sound you would like to hear. if you needs more treble extension or bass extension many tubes will give you that I enjoy tinkering with tubes to get the best out of my amps.


----------



## magiccabbage

drewtt said:


> I just ordered this amp.  How good are the stock tubes?  I am already thinking about upgrading and I noticed that Woo Audio has upgraded tubes available?  Are those the best choice?  Which set of tubes makes the biggest difference? Power, driver, or rectifier or do all three at the same time?
> 
> Thx.


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/696308/huge-tube-sale-5ar4-5r4-5u4-274-rectifiers-6as7g-6080-power-tubes-and-6sn7-6f8g-drivers


----------



## Frank I

drewtt said:


> Great, sounds like another money pit. Lol.


 
 Hi Drew. The stock tubes are decent but  the beauty of the WA2 it can really be tailored to your individual taste by upgrading the tubes.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

magiccabbage said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/696308/huge-tube-sale-5ar4-5r4-5u4-274-rectifiers-6as7g-6080-power-tubes-and-6sn7-6f8g-drivers


 
  
  
 +1 heh heh.
  
 theres also a guy selling bugle boys, orange globes, and CCa on another thread.


----------



## magiccabbage

dubstep girl said:


> +1 heh heh.
> 
> theres also a guy selling bugle boys, orange globes, and CCa on another thread.


 
 thanks but for me these tube sales are at the wrong time as i have to buy a good camera and 2 lenses soon - they will end up costing me as much as a WA22 at the very least.


----------



## billerb1

Am going to be ordering a WA2 to pair with my T1's later this week.  Can't make up my mind on whether to go with the stepped attenuator.  I understand it is supposed to benefit the audio of the WA2 but I had a stepped attenuator on a Yulong amp a few years ago and it drove me a little nuts with too many occasions where the volume I wanted was 'between' steps.  Are the increments on the Woo attenuator small enough where that doesn't seem to be an issue...and can anyone speak to the audio benefits of attenuator  vs no attenuator.
 Really appreciate any input.


----------



## Chesterfield

drewtt said:


> Thanks guys.  This amp will also be used everyday as a preamp for my amp/speakers.
> 
> Therefore, I believe I would want the best driver tubes.
> 
> ...




Buy driver grade Amperex 7308s from Upscale Audio instead. They're about $200 cheaper. Woo's power tubes are reasonably priced though.


----------



## Rizlaw

billerb1 said:


> Am going to be ordering a WA2 to pair with my T1's later this week.  Can't make up my mind on whether to go with the stepped attenuator.  I understand it is supposed to benefit the audio of the WA2 but I had a stepped attenuator on a Yulong amp a few years ago and it drove me a little nuts with too many occasions where the volume I wanted was 'between' steps.  Are the increments on the Woo attenuator small enough where that doesn't seem to be an issue...and can anyone speak to the audio benefits of attenuator  vs no attenuator.
> Really appreciate any input.


 
 When I ordered my fully loaded WA2 from Jack Woo, I thought the DACT stepped attenuator had 2db steps. However, when I called to confirm that with Jack some time ago, he said "No" the attenuator has 1db steps (a total of 23 click stops on mine). I've never really had a problem with adjusting the sound to the most pleasing level. Good stepped attenuators are supposed to be more accurate and transparent, but I imagine an ALPS blue attenuator is probably nearly as good.
  
 You might want to look at these threads on attenuator comparisons:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/213420/dact-stepped-attenuator-vs-alps-blue-velvet-my-observations
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/281333/stepped-attenuator-or-volume-potentiometer


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I hated stepped on wa22, wouldnt want it on wa2. Too annoying especially with high impedance headphones.


----------



## jamesng45678

How does the dacmini from centrance compared with the WA2 in both the sound produced and the amplifiers. I am new here and I am deciding which one to get?


----------



## billerb1

Thanks DG and Rizlaw.  Any other impressions regarding stepped attenuators I'd appreciate.  I was waiting to talk to Jack but didn't hear back from him today.  I'm not even sure if it is available on the WA2 as an option anymore.


----------



## ardilla

dubstep girl said:


> I hated stepped on wa22, wouldnt want it on wa2. Too annoying especially with high impedance headphones.


 
  
 With sensitive cans the stepped on the WA22 can be to steppy. With the WA2 I've never had a problem with that.


----------



## Rizlaw

billerb1 said:


> Thanks DG and Rizlaw.  Any other impressions regarding stepped attenuators I'd appreciate.  I was waiting to talk to Jack but didn't hear back from him today.  I'm not even sure if it is available on the WA2 as an option anymore.


 
 When I looked at Jack's website yesterday, I no longer saw the stepped attenuator as an option, nor the Black Gate Caps or Teflon tube sockets. I imagine that the DACT stepped attenuator and teflon sockets can still be special ordered, but not the Black Gate's (I believe they have been out of business for quite some time). My WA2 has all 3 options plus upgraded tubes and I have no trouble adjusting the volume level where I need it to be for any headphone I own.


----------



## billerb1

rizlaw said:


> When I looked at Jack's website yesterday, I no longer saw the stepped attenuator as an option, nor the Black Gate Caps or Teflon tube sockets. I imagine that the DACT stepped attenuator and teflon sockets can still be special ordered, but not the Black Gate's (I believe they have been out of business for quite some time). My WA2 has all 3 options plus upgraded tubes and I have no trouble adjusting the volume level where I need it to be for any headphone I own.


 
 Yeah I talked with him today and he led me to believe that he could do it if I really had to have it.  I didn't persue it.  If he would have strongly recommended it I might have thought about it but I'd already pretty much decided to go stock. Am already sitting pretty for upgrade tubes.  Thanks for your info though...appreciate it.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rizlaw said:


> When I looked at Jack's website yesterday, I no longer saw the stepped attenuator as an option, nor the Black Gate Caps or Teflon tube sockets. I imagine that the DACT stepped attenuator and teflon sockets can still be special ordered, but not the Black Gate's (I believe they have been out of business for quite some time). My WA2 has all 3 options plus upgraded tubes and I have no trouble adjusting the volume level where I need it to be for any headphone I own.


 
  
 i think they all come with teflon sockets, don't they?
  
 the black gates are not available as far as i know but the stepped should definitely be available if you email jack about it.


----------



## Rizlaw

dubstep girl said:


> i think they all come with teflon sockets, don't they?
> 
> . . . .


 
 Dubstep Girl,
  
 Teflon sockets were a $150.00 option when I purchased my WA2 back in late 2010. Back then the base price of the WA2 was $1050, now it's $1190.00, so it's possible, but not likely that teflon sockets are standard. Jack's specs, on the current WA2, apart from mentioning teflon/silver plate wiring as standard, don't mention Teflon sockets as standard equipment.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rizlaw said:


> Dubstep Girl,
> 
> Teflon sockets were a $150.00 option when I purchased my WA2 back in late 2010. Back then the base price of the WA2 was $1050, now it's $1190.00, so it's possible, but not likely that teflon sockets are standard. Jack's specs, on the current WA2, apart from mentioning teflon/silver plate wiring as standard, don't mention Teflon sockets as standard equipment.


 
  
 the sockets look like they're made of teflon.
  
 interestingly though, the wa5/wa5-le offers the upgrade for teflon, but the pictures shows it looks exactly the same as the standard sockets. unless the standards are made of some plastic material or something. 
  
 but it looks just like the teflon tube adapters. http://www.head-fi.org/t/548267/new-product-universal-teflon-tube-adapter
 and thats what the sockets are like on all the woo amps i've owned.


----------



## Rizlaw

Dubstep Girl, I haven't seen a current production WA2 lately, so I'm just guessing here, but it could be that there are "grades" of teflon sockets and Jack decided to use a good "stock" teflon socket and not charge for a pricey "upgrade" TOL teflon tube socket. Sort of like the stock tubes he ships with the WA2. On the other hand, as I said before, if he is using Teflon sockets, I would think that he would note it in the written specs as an additonal feature. Perhaps a new 2013/14 owner of a WA2 could enlighten us.
  
 P.S. The Woo Audio link you included in your post is dated April, 2011 for Teflon Tube *Adapters*. That's about 6 months before I received my WA2 with, amongst other upgrades, 6 Teflon Sockets ($150). I'm not sure the "adapters" are the same thing as the Teflon sockets I have. My sockets are flush to the aluminium case work and don't have the bronze colored rings with the tube type(es) engraved (as seen in the photos).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

The sockets on my tubes wheres the same material as those adapters with the gold rings. 

I linked to show u that the sockets on woo amps are identical to the adapters, so they must be teflon


----------



## Rizlaw

dubstep girl said:


> The sockets on my tubes wheres the same material as those adapters with the gold rings.
> 
> I linked to show u that the sockets on woo amps are identical to the adapters, so they must be teflon


 
 DSG,
  
 I sent an email off to Jack this A.M. about the current production WA2 sockets and he just responded:
  


> It uses Teflon sockets as standard.  The price was adjusted due to the part cost.


 
  
 Since my purchase back in 2011 when Teflon sockets were an option, he now includes Teflon sockets as standard and increased the price to reflect the upgrade in parts. I'm surprised he hasn't updated his web page for the WA2 to reflect that fact.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rizlaw said:


> DSG,
> 
> I sent an email off to Jack this A.M. about the current production WA2 sockets and he just responded:
> 
> ...


 
  
 oh ok, cool, thanks for verifying with Jack about the standard teflon sockets.
  
 surprised the WA5 still offers it as an upgrade though.


----------



## Frank I

My WA5 has the teflon sockets and it was not a upgrade. That website is being revamped so much of what is on there is inaccurate.


----------



## Chesterfield

Off Topic: I'm in the process of trying to buy and evaluate interconnects for my WA2. So far, I've picked up Kimber Heroes, which do a lot of things right, but the lower midrange is really flat, so they sound bright without being technically bright (and the 72-hour break-in is a real pain). I just picked up a pair of Silnote Morpheus Reference IIs which have an absolutely gorgeous midrange, but neither the bass nor the soundstage is quite as good as the Heroes (the "retail price" on their website is an annoying marketing gimmick, since Silnote sells the cables on Audiogon for about the same price as basic Heroes). Anyone have ICs that work especially well for the WA2? Say, less than $300 or $400? Is anybody getting a 3-D soundstage with their WA2? Mine's decidedly 2-D, and I suspect my ICs are at fault. If you'd prefer to send me private responses so I don't clutter up this thread, I'd be grateful.


----------



## billerb1

I've just ordered a WA2 and I was wondering how my current interconnects would be with it so I'd be very appreciative if the responses would stay in the thread.  I'd assume others would be interested in the responses as well.
 BTW, I'd be more interested in below say $200 if possible, lol.


----------



## hodgjy

chesterfield said:


> Off Topic: I'm in the process of trying to buy and evaluate interconnects for my WA2. So far, I've picked up Kimber Heroes, which do a lot of things right, but the lower midrange is really flat, so they sound bright without being technically bright (and the 72-hour break-in is a real pain). I just picked up a pair of Silnote Morpheus Reference IIs which have an absolutely gorgeous midrange, but neither the bass nor the soundstage is quite as good as the Heroes (the "retail price" on their website is an annoying marketing gimmick, since Silnote sells the cables on Audiogon for about the same price as basic Heroes). Anyone have ICs that work especially well for the WA2? Say, less than $300 or $400? Is anybody getting a 3-D soundstage with their WA2? Mine's decidedly 2-D, and I suspect my ICs are at fault. If you'd prefer to send me private responses so I don't clutter up this thread, I'd be grateful.


 
 I have done extensive testing on interconnects and have found no difference in sound.  So, I suggest only buying fancy interconnects if you want them for visual pleasure or long-life durability.  If you are unhappy with the sound from the amp, I'd investigate tube pairings first.


----------



## Chesterfield

I guess I was hoping for private responses so the thread wouldn't devolve into a "cables matter/no they don't" argument. But what I can say is this: I used to be a professional classical guitarist, and have been told by some of the most accomplished musicians in the business that I have a great ear (which has a variety of meanings, of course, some of which apply and some don't). I hear a very distinct difference between cables, and would be grateful if those who also hear and appreciate such differences would reply. For those of you who do not hear differences between cables, I congratulate you: you're saved considerable aggravation and no small amount of money.


----------



## billerb1

chesterfield said:


> I guess I was hoping for private responses so the thread wouldn't devolve into a "cables matter/no they don't" argument. But what I can say is this: I used to be a professional classical guitarist, and have been told by some of the most accomplished musicians in the business that I have a great ear (which has a variety of meanings, of course, some of which apply and some don't). I hear a very distinct difference between cables, and would be grateful if those who also hear and appreciate such differences would reply. For those of you who do not hear differences between cables, I congratulate you: you're saved considerable aggravation and no small amount of money.


 
 I also always hear at least subtle differences between cables and didn't mean to muck things up here.  So please include me in a PM if you have any recommendations if this is not the appropriate platform.  Thanks !!!


----------



## Rizlaw

chesterfield said:


> I guess I was hoping for private responses so the thread wouldn't devolve into a "cables matter/no they don't" argument. But what I can say is this: I used to be a professional classical guitarist, and have been told by some of the most accomplished musicians in the business that I have a great ear (which has a variety of meanings, of course, some of which apply and some don't). I hear a very distinct difference between cables, and would be grateful if those who also hear and appreciate such differences would reply. For those of you who do not hear differences between cables, I congratulate you: you're saved considerable aggravation and no small amount of money.


 
 I use the following cables on my Decware CSP3, Taboo 3 and W4S DAC-2. Much to my surprise I found a significantly audible difference (read improvement across the audio spectrum) in my sound with these cables. They are unshielded silver ICs, so if your system has EMI issues you may experience some hum. They only come in 0.5 and 1 meter lengths. They are, IMO, fairly priced. Starting at $149/pr for .5m and $199/pr for 1m. Very highly recommended. You also get a 30 day trial. Decware Silver Reference: http://www.decware.com/newsite/newdsr.htm
  
 In longer lengths, Decware has reasonably priced (starting at $79) shielded copper cables: Decware Studio Grade. I haven't heard them, but I have found everything Steve D makes and sells is very close, if not dead-on, to what he claims on his website and over the phone.  http://www.decware.com/newsite/DSG.html


----------



## Chesterfield

Thanks, Rizlaw. I've heard good things about Decware's amps (they're certainly gorgeous to behold). I'll take a look at the Silver Reference. I've never given silver cables much thought since my HD-800s have a mite too much treble as is, depending on the recording. But perhaps I should rethink the matter. Worth a try, certainly--afterall, without shielding, there can't be much dielectric interference, so not many hours to break in the cable. The pic on Decware's home page--the tube amp with purple smoke--is priceless. Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## dany111777

Hi,
 I just purchased a WA2 with stock tubes, to replace a Burson HA160. I'm using it with Meridian G08 and Senns HD800. 
 It only has 2-3 hours of playing, but, compared to the Burson (which is half the price), it sounds muffled and dull. 
 Is that due to change with burnin, or should I already be considering tube rolling?
  
 Perhaps I expected too much ...


----------



## billerb1

dany111777 said:


> Hi,
> I just purchased a WA2 with stock tubes, to replace a Burson HA160. I'm using it with Meridian G08 and Senns HD800.
> It only has 2-3 hours of playing, but, compared to the Burson (which is half the price), it sounds muffled and dull.
> Is that due to change with burnin, or should I already be considering tube rolling?
> ...


 
 Throw the stock tubes in the garbage. Get some Tung Sol 5998 power tubes. Brimar EZ 80 rectifiers. Philips Miniwatt E188CC driver tubes. That combination on my T1's sure isn't muffled and dull. That's for d*** sure.


----------



## Chesterfield

Yeah, the WA2 is all about the tubes. Sadly, the stock ones are a disservice to the amp.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Stock tubes suck


----------



## dany111777

chesterfield said:


> Yeah, the WA2 is all about the tubes. Sadly, the stock ones are a disservice to the amp.


 
  
 And the burn in? that has nothing to do with it?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

deal with stock tubes, rectifier first then ecc88s and finally '6080s' (which are generally pretty good)


----------



## billerb1

Everybody hears different things obviously.  All the tubes are important to the sound signature but personally, as to your "dull and muffled" description, I'd start with changing to the Tung Sol 5998's.  Biggest difference-maker in that regard to my ears.  Much more defined and more pop all the way around.  Much more impact to me vs RCA 6AS7G's thru my T1's.  Good luck.


----------



## dany111777

billerb1 said:


> Everybody hears different things obviously.  All the tubes are important to the sound signature but personally, as to your "dull and muffled" description, I'd start with changing to the Tung Sol 5998's.  Biggest difference-maker in that regard to my ears.  Much more defined and more pop all the way around.  Much more impact to me vs RCA 6AS7G's thru my T1's.  Good luck.


 
 Seems nobody saw the other question, regarding the burn in ... everybody jumped on the 5998, 5998, 5998 ...
 There aren't any in Europe and I saw some in the US that cost half the amp, with customs and transport and I can't pay a ****load of money just now.
  
 That's why I asked about the burn in. I read the thousands of pages of tube rolling, and there isn't one that doesn't mention the Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## dany111777

> Tung Sol 5998.


 
 Did anybody even bothered to burn in the stock tubes? Or did you all "threw them in the garbage" as a previous headfier put it?


----------



## StanT

dany111777 said:


> Did anybody even bothered to burn in the stock tubes? Or did you all "threw them in the garbage" as a previous headfier put it?


 
 Burn in is subtle, the difference between stock tubes and 5998s is not. I listened to stock tubes for a month or so with my WA3, I knew better when I got a WA2.
  
 If 5998s are too pricey, Tung Sol 7236s are probably the next best option.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

we all saw the burn in question but tube quality is the major thing here. Don't view tube quality as numbers such as 5998s, think quality 6AS7G / 6080 first long before you want to try a 7236 / 5998. Personally my best performer is still a 6AS7G. Numbers don't relate to tube quality. Sort out qulaity basic variants first. Mullard ECC88s and a decent 5U4G / 5R4G will cost minimal amouts and offer loads.


----------



## Chesterfield

Personally, I didn't hear much change with burn in--not on the WA2. Unfortunately, you won't have any notion of what this amp can do until you swap out the stock tubes. It's a seriously great amp--not so good with the current line of stock tubes, but glorious and magical with upgraded ones.


----------



## Chesterfield

Aren't 7236s and 5998s the same price, or within $10 of each other? Or did I just pay too much for my 7236s? All I'm seeing is $160 for a matched pair of 7236s and $170 for the same of 5998s. Anyone have a better price?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

well unfortunately woo audio has monopolized the tung sol 7236, however, its not as good as tung sol 5998 so its better to spend more for 5998. 
  
 7236 usually are 120-150 a pair everywhere else and 5998 generally 180-200 a pair or more.


----------



## MacedonianHero

dany111777 said:


> Hi,
> I just purchased a WA2 with stock tubes, to replace a Burson HA160. I'm using it with Meridian G08 and Senns HD800.
> It only has 2-3 hours of playing, but, compared to the Burson (which is half the price), it sounds muffled and dull.
> Is that due to change with burnin, or should I already be considering tube rolling?
> ...


 
 The WA2 is leagues above the pretty meh HA160. I'd let it burn in first (give it about 100 hours or so). If you're still not happy, these are my "go to" tubes with the WA2:

 Tung Sol 5998
 Siemens E88CC (but if they're too pricey), the NOS 6922 Sylvanias are a great option at much less $.
  
 The rectifier tubes didn't affect the sound that much, I did however quite like the NOS Mullards here.


----------



## StanT

dubstep girl said:


> 7236 usually are 120-150 a pair everywhere else and 5998 generally 180-200 a pair or more.


 
 Geez, glad I bought a life time supply last year. $300 for a 5998 quad and $200 for Tung-Sol 7236 quad.
  
 In my personal opinion. GEC 6AS7G > 5998 > Tung-Sol 7236     Bendix 6080s are interesting; but a bit obscure. I'm not sure I'll be buying any more GECs, I have 3 pairs; but the cost has become nuts.
  
 I don't care for Sylvania 7236s or RCA 6AS7Gs; but some people like them. The RCAs are cheap.
  
  
 I really need to stop my tube buying addiction, after I grab a few more rectifiers.


----------



## billerb1

stant said:


> Geez, glad I bought a life time supply last year. $300 for a 5998 quad and $200 for Tung-Sol 7236 quad.
> 
> In my personal opinion. GEC 6AS7G > 5998 > Tung-Sol 7236     Bendix 6080s are interesting; but a bit obscure. I'm not sure I'll be buying any more GECs, I have 3 pairs; but the cost has become nuts.
> 
> ...


 
 Get the Brimar EZ80 D-Getter Black Plates if you can find them.  You can thank me later...
 The Philips Miniwatt Sittard EZ80's are excellent as well but those Brimars are in a class by themselves to my ears.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

stant said:


> Geez, glad I bought a life time supply last year. $300 for a 5998 quad and $200 for Tung-Sol 7236 quad.
> 
> In my personal opinion. GEC 6AS7G > 5998 > Tung-Sol 7236     Bendix 6080s are interesting; but a bit obscure. I'm not sure I'll be buying any more GECs, I have 3 pairs; but the cost has become nuts.
> 
> ...




I prefer sylvania 7236 over tung sol 7236, i found tung sol too warmish and almost veiled in a way. To me its gec 6as7g >> 5998 >> gec 6080 >> 7236 >> everything else.

I hate rca 6as7g. Though i hear many comments about how much warmer they are than 5998 and whatnot, but they are just too plain sounding for me, 2d and non resolving. 

I miss all my tubes though, i had 4 pairs of gec 6as7g and 7 pairs of 5998 as well as a pair of 421a


----------



## dany111777

Well, I got a pair of NOS Sylvania 7236 matched for 60$, so that is 1/3 of the price I would have paid for TS 5998. And some Siemens E88CC with gold pins for 120 $. Hope that will do the trick. Are the rectifiers a must or is stock decent?
  
 I can get some Ei EZ80 for 35 $ a pair.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

rectifiers are must imo, most stock rectifiers included suck, i can't say which though since it varies depending on woo audio's stock.
  
 leave no weak links in your system!


----------



## billerb1

dany111777 said:


> Well, I got a pair of NOS Sylvania 7236 matched for 60$, so that is 1/3 of the price I would have paid for TS 5998. And some Siemens E88CC with gold pins for 120 $. Hope that will do the trick. Are the rectifiers a must or is stock decent?
> 
> I can get some Ei EZ80 for 35 $ a pair.


 

 The RFT EZ80's are great rectifiers and are cheap...can get a NOS pair sometimes for $20 on ebay.


----------



## dany111777

billerb1 said:


> The RFT EZ80's are great rectifiers and are cheap...can get a NOS pair sometimes for $20 on ebay.


 
 I found NOS RFT Ez80 at 5$/piece. 5 of them. Must they be matched?
 And also NIB Tesla EZ81 at 5$/piece. 16 of them. Must they be matched?
  
 Thanks


----------



## billerb1

dany111777 said:


> I found NOS RFT Ez80 at 5$/piece. 5 of them. Must they be matched?
> And also NIB Tesla EZ81 at 5$/piece. 16 of them. Must they be matched?
> 
> Thanks


 
 My experience is that a lot (most?) of tube sellers don't match these.  I'm not sure if it's absolutely necessary...I've heard both pros and cons.  I would think you'd be fine with any pair of rectifiers if both were considered NOS.  But then again I'm no tube expert and I'll be interested too in what others responses might be to your question.


----------



## dany111777

And another issue:
  
  
 Of the 2 Siemens e88cc, 1 is 80/80 and the other 70/80. Is that a problem?


----------



## StanT

dany111777 said:


> I found NOS RFT Ez80 at 5$/piece. 5 of them. Must they be matched?
> And also NIB Tesla EZ81 at 5$/piece. 16 of them. Must they be matched?
> 
> Thanks


 

 Rectiifiers aren't generally matched ( I don't know why). Tesla EZ80 are blah, I can't speak to EZ81s. RFT EZ80s are very good.


----------



## Chesterfield

Rectifiers aren't matched because they're not directly on the signal path, unlike power and driver tubes (which also explains why rectifiers don't affect sound nearly as much as power and driver tubes).


----------



## Dubstep Girl

I had the NOS tesla's and i much preferred the RFT. The RFT EZ80 are really good. I've heard good things about Mullard, Brimar, and Ei EZ80 as well. oh and RFT EZ81.


----------



## dany111777

Got some NIB Philips e88cc for 30$/piece. I'm settled. Guess I'll buy a power cord and start to listen.


----------



## dany111777

Has anyone heard 6080 Telefunken? Or 6080 Sylvania? How are they compared to stock (which is GE 6080 now) or to the 7236 Sylvania?
 Here's a link.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/6080-6AS7W-Telefunken-Rohre-NEU-6AS7-ECC230-Valve-NOS-Tube-amp-/371034837051?pt=DE_TV_Video_Audio_Elektronenr%C3%B6hren_Valves&hash=item566366503b


----------



## dany111777

Man, this thread is dead!!!
  
 I'll give it another shot though .... After some burn in, and switching to rft EZ80, Philips e88cc and Sylvania 7236, the muffled sound problem disappeared. But the sound got to piercing highs! I can't listen to it more than an hour, I thought this was supposed to be a TUBE amp.
  
 What do you think? I found some Sylvania 6as7GA for sale and some Telefunken 6080. Could it solve the problem? Or is it in the driver/rectifier department?


----------



## billerb1

D, what cans are you using?
 I really like the RFT EZ80's for what I listen for thru Beyerdynamic re-cabled T1's.
 But they tend a little toward the forward, bright side.  You might see if you can find
 any Great Britain made Brimar EZ80's.  More instrument timbre to me and a bit darker than
 the RFT's but without losing detail.  Hard to  find but a great tube for me.
 I haven't run the 7236's in mine...always the 5998's.  One of the 6AS7A's will take the edge off
 the treble for you I would think...but at the price of maybe getting some of that muffled sound back.
 Good luck.


----------



## Kiats

Hey guys! I just picked up a Woo Audio 2 a few weeks back and am still new to this whole new world of tube rolling. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Any suggestions where I might read up on tubes etc?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## MIKELAP

kiats said:


> Hey guys! I just picked up a Woo Audio 2 a few weeks back and am still new to this whole new world of tube rolling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/393811/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations


----------



## Kiats

Thanks, Mikelap!


----------



## billerb1

kiats said:


> Hey guys! I just picked up a Woo Audio 2 a few weeks back and am still new to this whole new world of tube rolling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Brent Jessee's page has a lot of info if you  really want to start getting educated...
 http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
  
 and Joe's Tube Lore:
 http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html


----------



## Kiats

Noted with thanks, Billerb1


----------



## dany111777

billerb1 said:


> D, what cans are you using?
> I really like the RFT EZ80's for what I listen for thru Beyerdynamic re-cabled T1's.
> But they tend a little toward the forward, bright side.  You might see if you can find
> any Great Britain made Brimar EZ80's.  More instrument timbre to me and a bit darker than
> ...


 
 I'm using HD800. Anybody else?


----------



## Chesterfield

I use HD-800s. I found a couple solutions to the 7-10 KHz spike: Philips Miniwatt EZ81s definitely help with sibilance, but retain extended highs; the second isn't a tube, but an IC: the Silnote Morpheus Reference II. The EZ81s sell for $50 each at Upscale Audio, the ICs for $170 on Audiogon. The Morpheus cables are well balanced and have a truly gorgeous midrange, as well as extended highs. You'll get all of the detail, but none of the treble harshness.


----------



## Chesterfield

Forgot to say that Tung Sol 7236s also help a bit.


----------



## billerb1

chesterfield said:


> I use HD-800s. I found a couple solutions to the 7-10 KHz spike: Philips Miniwatt EZ81s definitely help with sibilance, but retain extended highs; the second isn't a tube, but an IC: the Silnote Morpheus Reference II. The EZ81s sell for $50 each at Upscale Audio, the ICs for $170 on Audiogon. The Morpheus cables are well balanced and have a truly gorgeous midrange, as well as extended highs. You'll get all of the detail, but none of the treble harshness.


 
 +1 on the Morpheus Reference II.  I got one on Chesterfield's recommendation and wouldn't be without it now.  Great upgrade to my ears and did help with the sibilance with my T1's.


----------



## billerb1

I've listed 4 NOS pairs of great and very hard-to-find EZ80 and EZ81 rectifiers for the WA2 on the For Sale Forum if anyone's looking. All low hours and perfect working order. They're all listed in the Philips Miniwatt Sittard post.
 (Philips Miniwatt Sittard, Brimar and Valvo)


----------



## drewTT

What is the consensus on the best rectifier tubes for this amp?


----------



## drewTT

Thinking about getting the Philips Miniwatt 6CA4/EZ81.  Good?


----------



## kazsud

I hooked the Wa2 to my emotiva 6s and it added way too much bass :/ even after turning the bass down -4db


----------



## ru4music

drewtt said:


> Thinking about getting the Philips Miniwatt 6CA4/EZ81.  Good?


 

 I use the Brimar EZ80 (one of the best); have some Valvo and the Brimar are way above in performance.


----------



## drewTT

ru4music said:


> drewtt said:
> 
> 
> > Thinking about getting the Philips Miniwatt 6CA4/EZ81.  Good?
> ...




Thanks. Do you happen to know a reliable source for the Brimars?


----------



## ru4music

drewtt said:


> Thanks. Do you happen to know a reliable source for the Brimars?


 

 Sorry, I don't at the moment.  Sometimes they're labeled as GE, you'll just need to do your homework.  I purchased two NOS pairs from http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/ you can check with them etc.


----------



## drewTT

ru4music said:


> Sorry, I don't at the moment.  Sometimes they're labeled as GE, you'll just need to do your homework.  I purchased two NOS pairs from http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/ you can check with them etc.


 

 Thanks.  I just received some from a forum member.  Great tubes no doubt!


----------



## Chesterfield

drewtt said:


> Thinking about getting the Philips Miniwatt 6CA4/EZ81.  Good?




I've tried a number of well regarded rectifiers on the WA2. The Philips Miniwatt EZ81s are my favorites by a pretty wide margin.


----------



## ru4music

chesterfield said:


> I've tried a number of well regarded rectifiers on the WA2. The Philips Miniwatt EZ81s are my favorites by a pretty wide margin.


 

 Cool!  Have you tried the Brimar EZ80 and which Rects. with tube combo have tried?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

do you know in which facrory these were made in? Philips tuves will have codes on them.


----------



## kazsud

Are there any worthwhile upgrades that can be done under the hood?


----------



## GrindingThud

Are you a DIY type? I installed a Speedball like CCS in my WA3 (link in my signature line).


kazsud said:


> Are there any worthwhile upgrades that can be done under the hood?


----------



## kazsud

grindingthud said:


> Are you a DIY type? I installed a Speedball like CCS in my WA3 (link in my signature line).




Only w/ furniture and computers


----------



## billerb1

Have a couple NOS rectifier pairs on the For Sale forum if anybody's looking for a steal.
 French made Valvo EZ80's and UK made Brimar EZ81's with military print.  Printing perfect on both pairs.  PM me if
 you're interested. CONUS only.


----------



## Badas

Can someone confirm if the WA2 is any good with the Audeze LCD-3????
  
 According to the Woo site it could be a bit underpowered.
  
 310mw @ 32ohms


----------



## MacedonianHero

badas said:


> Can someone confirm if the WA2 is any good with the Audeze LCD-3????
> 
> According to the Woo site it could be a bit underpowered.
> 
> 310mw @ 32ohms


 
 It's not ideal, but with the Tung-Sol 7236 or 5998 power tubes, the combo can still sound quite nice!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

badas said:


> Can someone confirm if the WA2 is any good with the Audeze LCD-3????
> 
> According to the Woo site it could be a bit underpowered.
> 
> 310mw @ 32ohms


 
  
 I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## MacedonianHero

dubstep girl said:


> I wouldn't recommend it.


 
 If you already have the WA2 to drive a specific pair of headphones like the HD800s, and want to add the LCD-3s, it might be ok for a short term fit. But if you're looking for an amp specifically for the LCD-3s, then I'd look into the WA6SE.


----------



## Badas

^
  
 Thanks guys. I appreciate it.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

as others have said not the best combo, 6se and 22 are better


----------



## mikoss

I bought a WA2 second hand a couple of months ago and was very impressed with how smooth and wide it sounded.
  
 It expanded the soundstage of my music and allowed me to focus on different layers of the music easier... background vocals, specific instruments, and better imaging from my headphones and speakers. I also found that the highs were extended a bit more... or at least presented in a way that nuanced female vocals were brought out very nicely. I was really happy with the new presentation of my music by the WA2.
  
 What I noticed though was a lack of midrange. I'm a huge fan of acoustic guitar, and found that the rich, luscious mids my DAC was putting out weren't translating through the WA2. I tried putting in some Amperex PQ Holland 7308 tubes and the mids were improved a bit, but still suffering overall. Vocals and drums still sounded very nice, but I couldn't get over the lack of midrange.
  
 So I opened up my WA2, which has a bunch of Rubycon capacitors. I've never heard Blackgate capacitors before, and my WA2 doesn't have the upgrade to them, so I have no idea how that upgrade would impact the mids. Also, they're hard to find, since they're out of production, so that was a no go for me.
  
 What I did find though, were some Dayton .22uF capacitors that I decided to try changing out. They connect the signal from the power tubes to the driver tubes, and they were fairly easy to unsolder. I ended up trying out a bunch of types, and decided that the best sounding capacitors I could find were Orange Drop .33uF 400VDC 715P capacitors. (There are a whole bunch of videos on youtube that compare these capacitors with vintage "Black Beauty" capacitors that are used for tone control in vintage guitars. see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92G-jw4TqS4 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQcmYvpjx7s)
  
 Anyway, after swapping in the Orange Drops, the mids have definitely improved. Instead of simply hearing the higher "plucky/twangy" mids of acoustic guitar, I hear a fuller bodied, harmonic sound. The impessive soundstage is also completely intact, as well as the bass. Higher ranged tones have been reduced just a bit (which I think is due to putting in a .33uF instead of a .22uF, but I think this was a trade off for the mids), but the highs are still impressively extended and airy.
  
 Anyway just putting this out there for anyone who felt the same way about the WA2. I love this amp and welcome any other comments or suggestions to get the most out of it!


----------



## Chesterfield

Interesting post, Mikoss. I used to be a professional classical guitarist--which has a different timbre than acoustic, of course, but I understand what you're saying about the lower mids--at least with the stock WA2. I've never looked at the guts of my WA2, but I have pursued other upgrades. If you haven't swapped out the stock power tubes yet, that's where I'd start (you can read my comparison of the Tung Sol 5998s and Tung Sol 7236s on the WA2 tube page). After I upgraded my power tubes, the mids really became spectacularly good when I upgraded my interconnects. I tested a lot of them and liked Silnote's Morpheus Reference Series II the best (in my price range). Silnote's web page and Audiogon pages don't look very professional (there's some really bad writing), but they sure know how to make cables. With the right tubes and cables, the WA2 is absolutely magical.


----------



## mikoss

Thanks for the info @Chesterfield - I have only tried the power tubes which came with the WA2 I bought, which are Sylvania 7236 tubes. I would have to say that I agree with your comparison of the 5998s, that the 7236's indeed sound polished. Larger soundstage on the 5998s sounds crazy! If I ever find some for a decent price, I'll try them out. What are you rolling for driver tubes? Telefunkens? I adore the sound of the Amperex tubes, although the Siemens E88CCs have great bass and highs.


----------



## Chesterfield

Thanks, Mikoss. At the moment, I'm using Amperex 7308s, which I like quite a lot. I'm saving for Telefunken 6922s, but I recently made a pretty major (for me) audio purchase (a Silnote Posieden ES power cord, which is amazing), so the Telefunkens will have to wait a few months. If you click on my user name, then "select profile", you can see a complete list of what I'm using (I love that Head-Fi feature). You'll end up adoring your WA2.


----------



## billerb1

Mikoss,
Listen to Chesterfield...have learned a ton from that guy. Good ears.
Sent you a PM, take the info for as many grains of salt as you like.
I'm a big Philips Miniwatt E188CC fan for midrange. I also use the Amperex (American made) 7308's and love them. But to me their midrange is a bit recessed as compared to the Miniwatts and there is a very rich instrument timbre that the Mini's bring to the table as well.
Chesterfield is a big Tung Sol 7236 fan...I'm big on the 5998's (want to hear the 7236's though!). The soundstage on the 5998's is NOT crazy wide to my ears. Seems to scale just right for the upfront, intimate sound signature I prefer.
Good luck !!!


----------



## Dubstep Girl

amperex have nice mids, and i think the 5998s are better than the 7236 overall as well too. if you want really nice rich enveloping mids, get a pair of the GECs


----------



## Chesterfield

Aww, shucks, Bill. Thanks. I've learned a lot from you too. Yeah, I really like Tung Sol 7236s (not 7236s generally--just the Tung Sols) and generally prefer them to Tung Sol 5998s. But I'm in a minuscule minority with that opinion, and I certainly recognize and appreciate the 5998s many virtues, including its superior imaging. Dubstep Girl, like billerb1, is a font of knowledge on tubes, and she's always happy to help.


----------



## Chesterfield

Wow. How's that for timing? I posted before I saw Dubstep Girl's message.


----------



## mikoss

Thanks for the tips guys. I actually have a Miniwatt E188CC along with the 7308. I was under the impression that Amperex made it! It's marked VR3 delta 1D4. (halo getter).

I will have to find some GECs too... Are they power tubes? 5998s?


----------



## Chesterfield

Yes, the GEC 6AS7Gs are 5998-type power tubes, and they're rarer than hens' teeth. I almost had a pair a few months ago, but the tube store that had them sold out the day before I called. They're generally considered the best tubes available for the WA2--those and Western Electric 421As (which are also quite rare). They're pretty pricey too. That's why most WA2 owners--those interested in high-end tubes, anyway--end up "settling" for Tung Sol 5998s, which are considered the next best option.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Thanks for the tips guys. I actually have a Miniwatt E188CC along with the 7308. I was under the impression that Amperex made it! It's marked VR3 delta 1D4. (halo getter).
> 
> I will have to find some GECs too... Are they power tubes? 5998s?


 

 Mikoss,
 Are you saying your current driver pair is an Amperex 7308 with a Miniwatt 188CC?  I'm sure you could run them together but to me they are different sound signatures...so you wouldn't be getting the 'house' sound of either.  That Miniwatt you have was made at the Heerlen Holland plant in 1961, a real vintage one.  The Amperex 7308's were made at that plant in Heerlen as well...but were also made in New York.  I personally prefer the American made Amperex 7308's...a touch more raw and more 'alive' to me than the Hollands. 
 But for your purposes, I wish you could hear a matched pair of the Miniwatts.  I think the midrange, the weight of it,  would blow you away !!!  To me they are the path to total immersion.  They put me inside the music.  But I'm an old drummer.  I like being right there in the mix.  What I look for might be too upfront for a lot of people.


----------



## billerb1

chesterfield said:


> Wow. How's that for timing? I posted before I saw Dubstep Girl's message.


 

 And a huge +1 for Dubstep Girl.  She totally got me situated on tube options when I got my WA2.


----------



## Chesterfield

I spent some time figuring out why I prefer Tung Sol 7236s to 5998s. It's never been about imaging (the 5998s beat the 7236s pretty handily on that measure), but about the sound signature. For me, the 5998s have always sounded slightly off in the treble, though I couldn't precisely place it. So I decided to tune my stereo with an EQ, known faithful recordings, and tuning fork, like I tune my guitars. I don't know if it's just one tube, or both my 5998s, or if this is true of all Tung Sol 5998s--but compared to the 7236s (and to my guitar) there's a slight (.3-.4Dbs, I think) spike in the 4Khz range on the 5998s. It's not about inadequate burn in. I find the spike unpleasant, even pretty jarring at times--but the moment I "tune" the EQ accordingly, the 5998s are beautiful. So, mystery solved. Sort of.


----------



## billerb1

chesterfield said:


> I spent some time figuring out why I prefer Tung Sol 7236s to 5998s. It's never been about imaging (the 5998s beat the 7236s pretty handily on that measure), but about the sound signature. For me, the 5998s have always sounded slightly off in the treble, though I couldn't precisely place it. So I decided to tune my stereo with an EQ, known faithful recordings, and tuning fork, like I tune my guitars. I don't know if it's just one tube, or both my 5998s, or if this is true of all Tung Sol 5998s--but compared to the 7236s (and to my guitar) there's a slight (.3-.4Dbs, I think) spike in the 4Khz range on the 5998s. It's not about inadequate burn in. I find the spike unpleasant, even pretty jarring at times--but the moment I "tune" the EQ accordingly, the 5998s are beautiful. So, mystery solved. Sort of.


 

 Chris...the "Mad Scientist of Head-Fi".  I freaking love it !!!  I'm just about ready to send my $160 off to Jack Woo and get the whole thing over with.  I know I won't regret it.


----------



## Chesterfield

Perhaps not a scientist so much as just plain mad. Who uses a tuning fork on their stereo? Bill, I knew I'd wear you down on the 7236s--if not with refutable logic, then at least with repetitive persistance. Seriously, though, I'm really enjoying the 5998s now!


----------



## billerb1

chesterfield said:


> Perhaps not a scientist so much as just plain mad. Who uses a tuning fork on their stereo? Bill, I knew I'd wear you down on the 7236s--if not with refutable logic, then at least with repetitive persistance. Seriously, though, I'm really enjoying the 5998s now!


 

 I win !!!


----------



## Chesterfield

Ha! Yes, you win. All it took for me to find the Tung Sol 5998s tolerable was an intentional distortion in the music. Speaking of which--it's really hard to tune for dynamics! But I'm not such a purist that I find an EQ morally and ethically objectionable. Isn't that big of me?


----------



## billerb1

chesterfield said:


> Ha! Yes, you win. All it took for me to find the Tung Sol 5998s tolerable was an intentional distortion in the music. Speaking of which--it's really hard to tune for dynamics! But I'm not such a purist that I find an EQ morally and ethically objectionable. Isn't that big of me?


 

 Quit tryin' to ruin all my fun.  And I DO find it morally and ethically objectionable...unless it's helpin' me...in a pinch.  You know.


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> Mikoss,
> Are you saying your current driver pair is an Amperex 7308 with a Miniwatt 188CC?  I'm sure you could run them together but to me they are different sound signatures...so you wouldn't be getting the 'house' sound of either.  That Miniwatt you have was made at the Heerlen Holland plant in 1961, a real vintage one.  The Amperex 7308's were made at that plant in Heerlen as well...but were also made in New York.  I personally prefer the American made Amperex 7308's...a touch more raw and more 'alive' to me than the Hollands.
> But for your purposes, I wish you could hear a matched pair of the Miniwatts.  I think the midrange, the weight of it,  would blow you away !!!  To me they are the path to total immersion.  They put me inside the music.  But I'm an old drummer.  I like being right there in the mix.  What I look for might be too upfront for a lot of people.


 
  
 Just gave the Miniwatt e188cc a thorough listen this weekend and I'm floored by this tube. It has the beautiful, rich mids of the Amperex 7308's, combined with the extended, nuanced highs of the Siemens tubes, and huge soundstage. This is without a doubt, the best 6dj8 style tube I've ever heard. I've scoured eBay and bought a very strong single for my T1 tube buffered dac, and also a matched pair for my WA2. Total cost was outrageous, but I feel like this tube completely captures my music and presents it in a way that reminds me of everything that I love about vinyl without the pops and crackles. I'm wondering how a CCa could improve on these tubes... Anyway, mine are all from the Heerlen plant. Can't wait to hear the WA2 with matched e188cc Miniwatts.
  
 Also, just for reference, I fed my WA7 which has the upgraded gold pin 6C45 tubes and it completely rolls off the highs. Hoping maybe they just need to be burned in some more... but I suspect the 6C45's just can't handle everything the e188cc is passing through. The WA2 on the other hand retains the beautiful highs, just needs the matched e188cc's hopefully to improve the mids.


----------



## Chesterfield

It's Woo Audio's official position that the Tung Sol 5998 is a superior tube to the Tung Sol 7236 in the WA2. Jack believes the TS 7236 should only be purchased as a substitute, when a good pair of TS 5998s can't be found. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to cross post this to the WA2 tube forum.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

chesterfield said:


> It's Woo Audio's official position that the Tung Sol 5998 is a superior tube to the Tung Sol 7236 in the WA2. Jack believes the TS 7236 should only be purchased as a substitute, when a good pair of TS 5998s can't be found. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to cross post this to the WA2 tube forum.


----------



## Magiv9

I've been using the stock tubes for like half a year thinking my TS7236 were dead, because one of the tubes had a high pitch and ears slowly start clogging up like you are underwater (tried switching sides on the amp to confirm).
  
 So after finally willing to dish out money to get a new pair of tubes... i tried just wiping off the pins and shook it abit... and it works perfectly again -.-. It was bad to the point you had to take off your headphones within seconds.
  
 Not sure if the tubes were dying or if it needed a few shakes and clean but it looks like I just saved some $$$ for fiddling abit.
  
 & OMG i havn't used the tung sols in half a year, what have I been missing out in so long (T___T). Havn't visited the site in ages too but had to post how happy I am with the WA2! is it the amp!? the headphones!? nah its the tubes!
 I was planning on watching some streams but nope, here I am immobilize by the WA2...
  
 Is the 5998 really worth the extra $100? because I was going to get TS7236 again if they were indeed dead.


----------



## kazsud

magiv9 said:


> I've been using the stock tubes for like half a year thinking my TS7236 were dead, because one of the tubes had a high pitch and ears slowly start clogging up like you are underwater (tried switching sides on the amp to confirm).
> 
> So after finally willing to dish out money to get a new pair of tubes... i tried just wiping off the pins and shook it abit... and it works perfectly again -.-. It was bad to the point you had to take off your headphones within seconds.
> 
> ...




Yes they are worth the $100. But remember you have to like them not us. But the fact that you can totally change the sound of a $1,100 with $100 is awesome. When I got my wa2 I kept buying tubes until I found the right combo.

If you can afford it buy a pair of gec 6080. They are the most engaging with our amp.


----------



## paladinm

Hello, folks, I am new here.
 I just bought a wa2. The stock rectifier tubes are a pair of 6CA4s, which, according to the attached paper, are equal to 6V4=EZ80, but I find 6CA4s actually are EZ81s. My question is, does rectifier tubes matters, or does EZ81s affect the sound quality/style, compare with EZ80? 
 Also, I'm looking for EZ80s on Ebay, but it's hard to find a matched mair of EZ80. Do rectifier tubes need to be matched? Because there are tons of single EZ80 tube on Ebay...
 Thank you : )


----------



## Magiv9

kazsud said:


> Yes they are worth the $100. But remember you have to like them not us. But the fact that you can totally change the sound of a $1,100 with $100 is awesome. When I got my wa2 I kept buying tubes until I found the right combo.
> 
> If you can afford it buy a pair of gec 6080. They are the most engaging with our amp.


 
 Gah... As much as I love to keep buying tubes, it'll feel like I'm just throwing money away if don't use them.
 I was going to replace it with TS7236 for 200ish or TS5998 for 300ish if my tube had died, but I'll try the gec 6080 next if I can't convince myself to spend the 300+, thanks!


----------



## Franatic

kazsud said:


> Yes they are worth the $100. But remember you have to like them not us. But the fact that you can totally change the sound of a $1,100 with $100 is awesome. When I got my wa2 I kept buying tubes until I found the right combo.
> 
> If you can afford it buy a pair of gec 6080. They are the most engaging with our amp.


 

 I've been a tube rollin' fool since I got my WA2 5 months ago. I've had multiple combos in my amp, including the beloved Tung Sol 5998s. I got a recommendation of the GEC 6080 from Dubstep Girl and it was great advice.
  
 I found the 5998s to be open, detailed, and very powerful. However, they were quite neutral and with them I did not get enough warmth for my taste. Then I got a pair of GEC 6080s from ValveTubes. Wow, just what I was looking for: open, detailed, great bass and lush lower mids. Paired with Siemens CCAs it is the perfect combo. Just what I was looking for. I can highly recommend both of those tubes.


----------



## mikoss

Nice @Franatic ... I also like my music with a bit of warmth. I'll have to try out the GEC 6AS7G/6080 tubes... how much does a NOS matched pair go for? $500 or so seems to be the best price I can find on ebay. Pretty pricey. 
  
 I bought a pair of Philips Miniwatt E188CC's (Holland version) and they sound absolutely splendid. Same extended, nuanced highs that I love from the Siemens E88CC tubes, along with amazing soundstage and lush mids that remind me of Amperex 7308 tubes. 
  
 But I would also like to go the GEC route... just wondering if it's worth the cash for the tube upgrade. I have some Sylvania JAN 7236 tubes now and I think the mids are suffering a bit from them. I'm sure the GEC's would be a nice improvement.


----------



## Franatic

Hey Mikoss,
 I had looked into the GEC 6AS7G and kind of balked at the $450-500/pair pricepoint. Upon a recommendation by Dubstep Girl I looked into the GEC 6080. I found them for $160/pair at ValveTubes. I bought a pair and tried them out. They have the exact sound profile I was looking for: open,detailed, good bass and great lower mids. I bought 2 more pair for my own stock. I was told by Kef that they were the last of his current stock. I know he has bought new GEC 6080 stock and the price has gone up. If you go to his website and email him he will give you a quote.
 If you can score some Siemens CCAs, they make a perfect combo with them. I am sure your present driver tubes will sound great with them also.
 Happy tube rollin', it's fun but also expensive. The thing is that NOS tubes are only going to get more scarce and more expensive.


----------



## Aethelred

6AS7g "brown cup base" - most engaging and midrange rich, i actually did not like 6080 in WA2. For midrange and emotions for my taste it was 6AS7G - even "cheaper" normal versions and 5889 for more lean/neutral sound - at least this is for power tubes. I have impression you can better adjust sound signature by preamp tubes.


----------



## Franatic

aethelred said:


> 6AS7g "brown cup base" - most engaging and midrange rich, i actually did not like 6080 in WA2. For midrange and emotions for my taste it was 6AS7G - even "cheaper" normal versions and 5889 for more lean/neutral sound - at least this is for power tubes. I have impression you can better adjust sound signature by preamp tubes.


 

 I have not had the pleasure of hearing the legendary GEC 6AS7G brown base in my WA2 yet. I couldn't get myself to pay $500/pair. I am sure it is the best.....someday I will shoot the moon on a pair.
 I also agree that the preamp(driver) tube has the greatest effect on soundstage and detail. I did put out $300 for a pair of Siemens CCA driver tubes. They were worth every penny and a good buy at my price. I also have a pair of Amperex 6922 PQ white label that are great and $200/pair
 I feel the job of the power tube, other than supply power output , is to preserve the signature of the driver tubes and add the warmth and lower mids, if desired. Here are the power tubes I tried and my ranking and impression
  
 1) GEC 6080WA - Very good details and soundstage and has deep bass and nice lower mids. The most well rounded tube that I tried and my favorite.
 2) Tung Sol 5998 - Greatest power and detail, big soundstage, very neutral signature....my 2nd favorite as I like some warmth out of my WA2
 3) RCA 6AS7G - Wow, the king of smooth. Very warm lush sound with deep bass. However, some of the details were lost in all that smoothness...but still loved the sound of this tube.
 4) Mullard 6080WA - A bit like the GECs with a touch more warmth but less detailed.  A good buy because you can get them pretty cheap.
 5) Tung Sol 7236 - Was not impressed when I first tried it but I need to give it another good listen as I first auditioned it with the stock tubes that came with the WA2
  
 As we know tubes have a synergistic effect on each other so results can vary depending on the other tubes and the system........and the listeners ears of course.
  
 I think I am done tubing for awhile. I have enough good tubes to last out the decade.....unless those brown bases call me.


----------



## kazsud

Gonna have to try the rca now.


----------



## Puzzles

mikoss said:


> But I would also like to go the GEC route... just wondering if it's worth the cash for the tube upgrade. I have some Sylvania JAN 7236 tubes now and I think the mids are suffering a bit from them. I'm sure the GEC's would be a nice improvement.


 
  
 Quote:


franatic said:


> I have not had the pleasure of hearing the legendary GEC 6AS7G brown base in my WA2 yet. I couldn't get myself to pay $500/pair. I am sure it is the best.....someday I will shoot the moon on a pair.


 
  
  
 Don't worry so much about the GEC 6AS7G. If you like the 5998, 7236, or GEC 6080 (maybe the 6080WB too), then I don't think there's need for the GEC 6AS7G, especially at their price point. 
 Boiled down to the most essential differences, the GEC 6AS7G is warmer and softer while the TS5998 is harmonically richer, a tad more dynamic but quite upfront sounding, at least in my system. The GEC tubes were the only ones that would soften my DAC's brutal rendering of low quality recordings. 
 The more "conventional" 6AS7G tubes sound muffled somehow, like listening through foam. I like their smooooth/liquid presentation (or whatever it is). The TS5998 and 7236 tubes lack that trait while the GEC 6AS7G preserves it without compromising transparency, harmonic richness, and dynamics as with most 6AS7Gs. However, if you like your TS5998, stick with it.


----------



## Franatic

Hi Puzzles,
  
 Thanks for the post!
  
 How would you compare the GEC 6AS7G with it's lesser known cousin, the GEC 6080. I am curious as you are the only one I know of who has both.


----------



## kazsud

franatic said:


> Hi Puzzles,
> 
> Thanks for the post!
> 
> How would you compare the GEC 6AS7G with it's lesser known cousin, the GEC 6080. I am curious as you are the only one I know of who has both.




You can try mine if Paddy sends me mine back.


----------



## Franatic

kazsud said:


> You can try mine if Paddy sends me mine back.


 

 Ha-Ha, that is awesome! I will definitely take you up on that when you get 'em back. Do I need to prod Paddy for ya? 
  
 I can do a local pick-up being you are a fellow Philly boy.....and my new friend. Thanks much, I look forward to hearing them....without having to spend $500.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

The GEC curvy base 6AS7G is the best, followed by the GEC square base followed by the GEC 6080 though there is little between all three tbh.


----------



## Franatic

Thanks, Nic! That is kind of what I thought. I think I made the right choice in that I got 3 pairs of GEC 6080s for the price of one pair of GEC 6AS7Gs. Still I am looking forward to getting to hear the 6AS7Gs when Kazud gets his back.


----------



## Aethelred

6080 for me was too much of a compromise. Not worth it IMHO. Tubes in WA2 last really long and I believe it's better to buy one pair of great ones instead of average multiple sets. Do not get me wrong - with 6080 WA2 sounds still very very good and in fact day when I've bought it it was running 6080s , but ... if you know what's you really looking for in the sound - choose best you can afford and maybe if you can buy some supply of tubes as they are getting very rare = very expensive. Lesson that i've learned in audio - try to get best from equipment that you have and match it to your system to get the sound and virtues that you are looking for.


----------



## Franatic

I am continually learning and experimenting with my system. I have been using the GEC 6080 as the power tube in my WA2. With it  I was using a Lectraline micro silver RCA cable from my micro idsd to the WA2. I saw a deal on Audio Mart on a pair of Jena Labs Symphony RCA cables. This is a different class than my Lectralines....and it's cryo treated copper. Beautiful awesome cables.
 When I added these cables I noticed nice improvement in soundstage and imaging but it had gotten much warmer sounding...too warm. I had lost some of the fine hairs of details I had been experiencing previously. Luckily, I had the solution. I went to my other favorite power tube, the Tung Sol 5998. Wow, this was the answer. Where the 5998s were too neutral and a bit forward with the Lectralines, they were PERFECT for the Jena Labs. Big, big sound...full, lush, detailed, dynamic, etc. The combo was just right.
 I am learning about finding synergy with my components. Like the WA2/T1, the Lectraline/ Gec 6080 and the Jena Labs Symphony/Tung Sol 5998. Components improve when paired properly.
 The last combo is truly awesome and has sent my SQ to a new level!


----------



## cupofjoe

As  a new owner of the WA2 i'm looking to upgrade the driver and rectifier tubes.  In looking at upscale audio's website I'm not sure what I should get in terms of quality; platinum, gold or driver.   Also, I'm not sure if the cryo treatment is worth it.  Does the  quality of the tubes matter for the driver and rectifier? Any advice on purchasing from upscale for the WA2 will be appreciated.
  
 I purchased the TS7236 and really like the amp as is.  However, I want to hear what I'm missing.


----------



## kazsud

cupofjoe said:


> As  a new owner of the WA2 i'm looking to upgrade the driver and rectifier tubes.  In looking at upscale audio's website I'm not sure what I should get in terms of quality; platinum, gold or driver.   Also, I'm not sure if the cryo treatment is worth it.  Does the  quality of the tubes matter for the driver and rectifier? Any advice on purchasing from upscale for the WA2 will be appreciated.
> 
> I purchased the TS7236 and really like the amp as is.  However, I want to hear what I'm missing.




What is crying treatment?


----------



## cupofjoe

Cryogenic treatment  it's $8 per tube  this is a partial quote form upscales website:
  
*"Of course, your first question is – and should be – why?*  In a nutshell, reducing an object’s temperature to -300ºF re-arranges its molecular structure, creating greater uniformity that results in longer life and better performance than when the product was initially designed.With vacuum tubes, this process has a profound impact on a tube’s ability to endure thermal shock. Therefore, tubes can last longer and their sound can been enhanced in ways that are simply exquisite"


----------



## Franatic

ha ha     C'mon Kazud, help the guy out. Tube rollin' can be an expensive activity, even more expensive than that other stuff I used to roll.
  
 Cupofjoe, congratulations on buying a great amp. I suggest you read this thread completely before you start spending. Opinions vary greatly on which tubes are best. It also depends on the combos you use and the headphones you are listening with...and as my previous post stated, your interconnects.
  
 Upscale Audio is a good site and gives fair value on some very good NOS tubes. Cryo treatment seems to be worthwhile from what I hear, but I don't really know.
  
 Keep an eye on ebay as tubes come and go there. Occasionally, you can find great deals on tubes on ebay, I have gotten most of mine there, but be careful to check the seller ratings.
  
 Driver tube is most important(I think), followed by power tube and rectifier last. They all matter, even the rectifier.
  
 Happy tube rollin', have fun. With the right tube combo, your WA2 can enter a whole new class. I currently run:
 Power tube - Tung Sol 5998    $200 pair
 Driver tube - Siemens CCA  $300 pair
 Rectifier - Brimar EZ80  $45 pair
 All 3 of these were good buys these days...on ebay. I currently own stock of tubes that cost me more than the amp.


----------



## cupofjoe

Thanks Franatic.  right now I have a hd650, but will be looking to get and HD800 or the T1 eventually.  The 5998 are on my wish list and will buy them when i can.  This is one of the threads that led me to buy the WA2 and I'm glad I did.  It was neck and neck between this and the WA6SE. I read good things about upscale here but have not read anything about the differences in their quality.  I notice when someone sell a tube bought from them it is usually a platinum one, so maybe that's the way to go, just more $.  I've been scouring eBay trying to find a good deal. 
  
 Your tube selection is sounds like my dream setup eventually.


----------



## Franatic

I don't think you could go wrong with either the T1s or the HD800s. I can definitely recommend the T1s with this amp, but I have never heard the HD800s.
  
 My good friend, AudioPhil has both and he would recommend the T1s with the WA2. It is all about synergy. Here is his setups, one for the T1 and one for the HD800 http://www.highend-audiopc.com/PDF/hardware-setup.pdf
 If you are doing computer audio, his program can do wonders to make a high level player out of your PC.


----------



## IceClass

cupofjoe said:


> Thanks Franatic.  right now I have a hd650, but will be looking to get and HD800 or the T1 eventually.  The 5998 are on my wish list and will buy them when i can.


 
  
  
 My two cents would be to invest in the 5998 tubes first. They really sing on the WA2 and your HD650s are highly underestimated cans these days and are still capable of great results on that amp.
  
 I found the HD800s to be more detailed than the HD650s but the 650s had a more macho, authoritatively musical feel to them on the WA2.
  
 Of course, YMMV.
  
 I miss my HD650s.


----------



## cupofjoe

Awesome link with incredible setups.  I had to google some of the items to find out their purpose in the chain.  I'm definitely leaning towards the T1 for the Wa2 but find myself still wanting the HD800 also.  Hopefully, I can catch them on sale.  For computer I just purchased Audirvana for my mac last week, have to stick with mac programs.


----------



## cupofjoe

iceclass said:


> My two cents would be to invest in the 5998 tubes first. They really sing on the WA2 and your HD650s are highly underestimated cans these days and are still capable of great results on that amp.
> 
> I found the HD800s to be more detailed than the HD650s but the 650s had a more macho, authoritatively musical feel to them on the WA2.
> 
> ...


 

 I hope to add the 5998 sooner rather than later.  I just missed a sale on the m here recently but will keep looking.  thanks for the HP comparisons.  I love the 650s and don't think I could ever sell them.  I remember thinking long and hard before I bought those due to the "high cost."  Now I realize what a tremendous bargain they are as I venture deeper into the woods.


----------



## Franatic

cupofjoe said:


> Awesome link with incredible setups.  I had to google some of the items to find out their purpose in the chain.  I'm definitely leaning towards the T1 for the Wa2 but find myself still wanting the HD800 also.  Hopefully, I can catch them on sale.  For computer I just purchased Audirvana for my mac last week, have to stick with mac programs.


 

 Keep your eye out and you can find good deals on T1s. I got a new open box pair on ebay for $722....they were perfect! I see an open box pair on ebay now for $839.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beyerdynamic-T1-Tesla-Premium-Headphones-600-Ohms-FAST-SHIP-/321629173924?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item4ae297b8a4
 They have been around for awhile that's why you can get deals on T1s....HD800s not so easy.


----------



## mikoss

cupofjoe said:


> I hope to add the 5998 sooner rather than later.  I just missed a sale on the m here recently but will keep looking.  thanks for the HP comparisons.  I love the 650s and don't think I could ever sell them.  I remember thinking long and hard before I bought those due to the "high cost."  Now I realize what a tremendous bargain they are as I venture deeper into the woods.


 
 I absolutely adore the HD650's with the WA2... it's a match made in heaven. (I bought and sold HE-500's since owning my HD-650's as well... I just love their romantic sound with OTL amps).
  
 Did you add an ebay search notification for Tung Sol 5998 tubes? That's what I did and picked up a matched pair today for $200... if you're into buying from ebay sellers, of course.


----------



## earthpeople

I got a pair of Tung Sol 7236 to pair with my late 2014 WA2. Unfortunately, the noise floor was just raised too high for me to enjoy. Overall I'd say it was an improvement on the stock tubes (mainly improved clarity and energy), but there was noticeably increased sibilance. The sibilance and noise floor just outweigh the positives too much so I'll be sending them back.
  
 Leads me to wonder if it was my tubes or some change to the recent WA2s, since the TS 7236 seem to be generally well regarded.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

earthpeople said:


> I got a pair of Tung Sol 7236 to pair with my late 2014 WA2. Unfortunately, the noise floor was just raised too high for me to enjoy. Overall I'd say it was an improvement on the stock tubes (mainly improved clarity and energy), but there was noticeably increased sibilance. The sibilance and noise floor just outweigh the positives too much so I'll be sending them back.
> 
> Leads me to wonder if it was my tubes or some change to the recent WA2s*, since the TS 7236 seem to be generally well regarded. *


 
  
  
 not by me, i think they suck on WA2 and i even preferred the sylvania 7236 over them, the 5998 and GEC 6080 kill them as well. but a lot of people do like them since they sound better than stock tubes and some people do enjoy how they sound..


----------



## StanT

I've used Tung-Sol 7236s on and off and rather like them. I prefer 5998s or GECs; but I have a couple pairs of the Tung-Sol 7236s for backup. Mine are dead quiet with an inaudible noise floor. The 7236 emphasized the treble harshness in my Beyer T1s, I'd be hard pressed to distinguish that from sibilance. The 7236s were my power tube of choice with Senn HD650s. They pretty much "deveiled" them.
 .
 I'm presently using a pair of Chatham 2399s on the WA2 (and trying to decide if SE from a WA2 is better than balanced from a Ragnarok).


----------



## MacedonianHero

earthpeople said:


> I got a pair of Tung Sol 7236 to pair with my late 2014 WA2. Unfortunately, the noise floor was just raised too high for me to enjoy. Overall I'd say it was an improvement on the stock tubes (mainly improved clarity and energy), but there was noticeably increased sibilance. The sibilance and noise floor just outweigh the positives too much so I'll be sending them back.
> 
> Leads me to wonder if it was my tubes or some change to the recent WA2s, since the TS 7236 seem to be generally well regarded.


 
  
 That's not the TS7236s, that's your pair of TS7236s. I've owned a few pairs and they were dead silent in my WA2 and WA22. Actually some of the most quiet I've owned. I would see if you can send them back as there's an issue with them.
  


dubstep girl said:


> not by me, i think they suck on WA2 and i even preferred the sylvania 7236 over them, the 5998 and GEC 6080 kill them as well. but a lot of people do like them since they sound better than stock tubes and some people do enjoy how they sound..


 
 I thought the TS7236s were better than the Sylvanias (Skylab turned me onto them years ago and I agree with him). The GEC didn't have the heft I wanted for orthos, but were quite good with the HD800s...but I do agree that the TS5998s were better still.


----------



## earthpeople

I've got the 7236s packed up and ready to send back. I also have a pair of 6AS7Gs coming in at the end of the week so I will probably give those a shot before ordering another pair of 7236. Just not quite ready to drop $350+ on a set of NOS 5998!


----------



## MacedonianHero

earthpeople said:


> I've got the 7236s packed up and ready to send back. I also have a pair of 6AS7Gs coming in at the end of the week so I will probably give those a shot before ordering another pair of 7236. Just not quite ready to drop $350+ on a set of NOS 5998!


 
  
 The TS5998s have been hunted into almost extinction. Wish I held onto my 3 pairs...sold them for $120 per pair several years ago.
  
 But Woo does sell the TS7236 for $160 for the pair...much better than the stock tubes (and the output power is about doubled...if I remember correctly). Totally worth the upgrade IMO.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

i used to have 6 pairs of 5998, and a super nice pair of taller 2399s with copper posts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 i can't believe how much price has gone up now, but they are still the standard imo, more power, more bass, and overall noise and microphony free.


----------



## cupofjoe

mikoss said:


> I absolutely adore the HD650's with the WA2... it's a match made in heaven. (I bought and sold HE-500's since owning my HD-650's as well... I just love their romantic sound with OTL amps).
> 
> Did you add an ebay search notification for Tung Sol 5998 tubes? That's what I did and picked up a matched pair today for $200... if you're into buying from ebay sellers, of course.


 

 agree the HD650 are a great headphone.  to me probably the best bang for the buck i could find.   Great idea on the eBay search notification -just added them - especially for a hard to find item like the 5998.  thanks


----------



## Franatic

earthpeople said:


> I've got the 7236s packed up and ready to send back. I also have a pair of 6AS7Gs coming in at the end of the week so I will probably give those a shot before ordering another pair of 7236. Just not quite ready to drop $350+ on a set of NOS 5998!


 

 I put a rule in place I would not pay more than $200 pair for power tubes. Then I patiently hunted for the power tubes I was interested in: TS5998, GEC 6080, WE 421A & GEC 6AS7G The latter 2 will never be $200/pair. I had the TS 7236 and was not impressed.
 I found 2 NOS matched pairs of TS 5998 for $200/pair in September when an Ebay seller had many pairs listed. This tube is very open, powerful and detailed...and quite neutral in tone.
 I found GEC6080s for $150/pair at ValveTubes.....after I tried and liked them I bought 2 more pairs. They are harder to find than the TS 5998s. This is a great sounding tube, very musical with a touch of warmth, but not the power of the TS 5998s. He has sold out that batch of stock. I know he has acquired more but the price has gone up. Email them for a quote if interested.
 So now I have a lifetime supply of power tubes for this amp. Happy hunting.....I wonder how rare and expensive these tubes will get in the future. At this point it is kind of like investing in stock. It seems I've committed to a long term relationship with my WA2


----------



## magiccabbage

Hi guys I just wanted to ask on here what do ye think is a good price to sell my 2 year old WA2?? 
 The reason I'm asking is because I'm not too familiar with american prices - I can get more for it over here 
 in Europe but it might not sell as easily here.
  
 I will be selling it with TS 5998  Jan Silvania 7308  RFT EZ80 - used but id say the tubes still have over 4000 hours left on them
  
 I also have a pair of RCA 6as7gs and Svetlana 6as7g unused and all the stock tubes 
  
  
 Do you think 950 dollars is a fair enough price for the amp and all the tubes? 
  
  
 Thanks Paddy


----------



## StanT

dubstep girl said:


> i used to have 6 pairs of 5998, and a super nice pair of taller 2399s with copper posts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 My 2399s look and sound identical to a 5998, I do have a couple pairs of 5998s with copper posts and flat black plates (no dimples).
  
  
 Quote:


franatic said:


> So now I have a lifetime supply of power tubes for this amp. Happy hunting.....I wonder how rare and expensive these tubes will get in the future. At this point it is kind of like investing in stock. It seems I've committed to a long term relationship with my WA2


 
  
 That's pretty much where I am, though I've stopped using my GEC 6AS7Gs because it seems the tubes are worth more to other people than they are to me. I'm not sure at what point the same will happen to 5998s. I have at least a dozen pairs of 5998s and 2 pairs of GEC 6AS7Gs. I never thought of the WA2 and tubes as an investment; but it seems that is the case.


----------



## Franatic

When you invest in tubes and cable, etc for your equipment you have to kind of know yourself. There are many audiophiles who go through equipment like crazy. If that is the case you are better off not investing too much in tubes.
  
 My current plan is to maximize my current equipment with cables and stuff, keep my WA2 and Exposure amp long term. I will keep my Monitor Audio GX100s speakers and my T1s, but get a cable upgrade for my T1s. I will continue to tweak my 2 pc streamer. The place I may yet upgrade is the DAC. However, this ifi idsd micro is pretty awesome and I hope to be happy with it for awhile.
  
 I've been at this "audiophile" thing for a little over a year. It is a very expensive hobby. I hope to finish that plan by the end of the year and then STOP..........but I am beginning to fear that my not be possible....is there a 12 step program for "Audioholics"


----------



## earthpeople

I've definitely been checking regularly on the TS 5998 and GEC 6080, but they either sell out before I even seen the notification email or are too far above what I would like to pay. Doesn't help when you guys are hoarding them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just kidding, just kidding~
  
 Depending how things work out over the next couple of weeks, I may just go around buying various cheaper tubes and hope to find something that I really like. At the very least, it'll be easier to get my hands on the cheap tubes if I need more.


----------



## kazsud

franatic said:


> When you invest in tubes and cable, etc for your equipment you have to kind of know yourself. There are many audiophiles who go through equipment like crazy. If that is the case you are better off not investing too much in tubes.
> 
> My current plan is to maximize my current equipment with cables and stuff, keep my WA2 and Exposure amp long term. I will keep my Monitor Audio GX100s speakers and my T1s, but get a cable upgrade for my T1s. I will continue to tweak my 2 pc streamer. The place I may yet upgrade is the DAC. However, this ifi idsd micro is pretty awesome and I hope to be happy with it for awhile.
> 
> I've been at this "audiophile" thing for a little over a year. It is a very expensive hobby. I hope to finish that plan by the end of the year and then STOP..........but I am beginning to fear that my not be possible....is there a 12 step program for "Audioholics":confused_face(1):




It's not about stopping but the journey....


----------



## Franatic

kazsud said:


> It's not about stopping but the journey....


 

 You are soooooright!I love the journey....but the tolls will kill me. Yes, I have "bought" in on this hobby. Hopefully, I will be happy in Tweeksville for awhile.


----------



## mikoss

Hey just rolled in some different tubes and wanted to offer some impressions/get some feedback from others who've used these tubes... this would be the relatively cheap 7236's vs cheap 6AS7G's:
  
 Sylvania 7236 tubes, paired with Philips Miniwatt E188CC (Holland NOS)
 -These are the tubes I've been using with my WA2 for the past 8 months, and they offered me a glimpse into separation of instruments/vocals, also overall smoothness. The Sylvania 7236 tubes really bring a smooth, slick sound without sacrificing too much in detail... I think they retain rich, luscious sounding mids, and the highs have decent extension without being sibilant or harsh. The bass is tight, but not as heavy sounding as some other tubes. My greatest compliment of these tubes is their separation of individual instruments... pinpointing different instruments is easier than ever, including counting how many singers/back-up vocalists are in the mix. The Philips Miniwatt's were essential to bring as much detail into the mix as possible... I tried rolling other 6dj8 variants, but was always disappointed with a lack of detail.
  
 RCA 6AS7G (black plates with top getter) with Philips Miniwatt E188CC (Holland NOS)
 - So I find the cheap RCA 6AS7G's push in some bass, and also clear things up in general, compared to the 7236's, but that "magical" sounding separation is lost. I find the bass and highs are more prominent on these tubes, almost to the point that it seems they've created a V-shaped presentation of frequencies. I actually enjoy this presentation, because it's less neutral, but more "exciting" musically. The highs are still not sibilant, but they're becoming a bit fatiguing for me, listening on PMC speakers. (I bought these speakers for their wonderful ability to produce more "air" up top in general, but the presentation with these tubes just brings a bit of crispness, almost like a solid-state setup). The bass is probably the most prominent aspect of the tubes, coming from the 7236's. I'm actually very happy with these tubes, for the price.
  
 I think the RCA's may shine a bit when paired with Amperex 7308's, which seem to really bring a rich sounding midrange in their presentation... I plan on rolling some in this week and I'll see how it sounds. I'm a huge fan of the Miniwatts myself, but just to tame the highs a bit, I'll try the 7308's. Also have some 5998's coming in the mail, so we'll see how they compare to the 7236 and 6AS7G's. My taste is a bit of warmth, as I mainly listen to "slower" stuff... acoustic, female vocals, indie rock, and jazz. I normally listen with HD-650s, but just for these impressions, I'm using the PMC Speakers.


----------



## StanT

As noted above, Dubstep Girl and I totally disagree comparing Sylvania 7236s vs Tung Sol. Different chains, different ears, etc. I do not care for the Sylvania's. Everyone likes the 5998s.
  
 Using Beyer T1s, I prefer Phillip Holland preamp tubes to anything else. I didn't matter if they were E88cc, E188cc, or SQ. Many Mazda tubes have identical construction and are sometimes cheaper. Preamp tubes last forever.
  
 Using HD650s, I prefered Siemens. I needed to get a bit more treble with my Senns and a bit less with my Beyers.
  
 RCA 6AS7G sounded sluggish to me, considerably better than the OEM 6080s; but that isn't saying much.


----------



## billerb1

stant said:


> As noted above, Dubstep Girl and I totally disagree comparing Sylvania 7236s vs Tung Sol. Different chains, different ears, etc. I do not care for the Sylvania's. Everyone likes the 5998s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

I'm a huge Philips Miniwatt E188CC/E88CC fan as well. The mids are just so resonant and textured with them...so real.
And I was as big of a fan of the 5998's with my T1's too...until my good Head-Fi'er friend Chesterfield badgered me into trying the 
Tung Sol 7236's. Not impressed at all initially...it's like they don't do any one thing better than the 5998's to me. But I gave
them a chance and slowly their sound became totally addicting. Like I said, I can't think of one individual thing they do better than the 5998's but it's a classic case of the whole being greater than the sum of it's parts. There is an elegance and a textured richness they bring to the sound that is magical ! I've tried going back to the 5998's on quite a few occasions...just can't do it. I'm more surprised than anybody.


----------



## mikoss

stant said:


> As noted above, Dubstep Girl and I totally disagree comparing Sylvania 7236s vs Tung Sol. Different chains, different ears, etc. I do not care for the Sylvania's. Everyone likes the 5998s.
> 
> Using Beyer T1s, I prefer Phillip Holland preamp tubes to anything else. I didn't matter if they were E88cc, E188cc, or SQ. Many Mazda tubes have identical construction and are sometimes cheaper. Preamp tubes last forever.
> 
> ...


 
 The Siemens E88CC's definitely have nice treble... I find I prefer the Philips tubes as the Siemens seem to sacrifice some midrange (to my ears). I enjoy both tubes though.
  
 From what I've read, I'm expecting the 5998's to be more transparent/neutral than 6080's/6AS7G's/7236's. I'll have to see how they sound. I find I prefer a bit of warmth myself... even comparing the WA2 to the WA7+WA7tp, the WA7 is almost too analytical sounding to me. I enjoy the WA7, I just tend to prefer the ability to tube roll with the WA2. On the other side of the coin, the 6080's I've heard sounded very rich and full of bloom, but too muddled... but they weren't GEC's 
  
@billerb1 - exactly my thoughts on the Philips tubes. I may end up in the same camp as you, preferring the 7236 tubes to the 5998s... who knows! We shall see when I get the Tung Sol's in and give them a good listen.


----------



## billerb1

By the way, if anyone is interested I have a NOS pair of rare Tung Sol 6520's, a premium version of the 6AS7G.
 Would sell for $99 + $12 for insured USPS Priority shipping (CONUS only).  I'll eat the PayPal fees. 
 PM me if interested.  They'll be available until I post "SOLD" here.
  
                                                                  SOLD !!!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

franatic said:


> I put a rule in place I would not pay more than $200 pair for power tubes. Then I patiently hunted for the power tubes I was interested in: TS5998, GEC 6080, WE 421A & GEC 6AS7G The latter 2 will never be $200/pair.


 
  
 The last pair of NOS boxed GEC 6AS7G (A1834)  I saw on ebay were the expensive curvy base ones and they went for £134 I think.


----------



## Franatic

nic rhodes said:


> The last pair of NOS boxed GEC 6AS7G (A1834)  I saw on ebay were the expensive curvy base ones and they went for £134 I think.


 

 Wow! That is right at my $200 mark. I missed them....and so did others who hunt them. I imagine that was on ebay.co.uk. Are you sure they were NOS?  There is a pair on there now for 320 pounds, which is normal for them.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

yes .co.uk and this is the typical price they go for. The £320 figure is people taking the pi$$ on people who haven't done their homework. Valves will always be cheapest from their home countries so I would look for Mullards / GECs in the UK, Siemens and TFK in Germany....you get the idea  Having said that they are no longer common but they are not out of the range of everyone yet unlike some WEs. The 6080s are great also though not as much a looker. I wouldn't get too hung up on NOS, my used ones I bought 20 years ago are still measure great


----------



## Franatic

Thanks Nic! I have very good tubes now so I can be patient in my future acquisitions. That is a nice tip on tube hunting strategy.


----------



## earthpeople

I got a pair of NOS RCA 6AS7G in on Friday and I've gotta say, I'm enjoying them quite a bit! The additional weight to the sound pairs well with the HD800. Got about 15 hours on them thus far, but I am very pleased for how cheap they are.
  
 However, I also have a pair of GEC 6080s due to arrive this coming week thanks to a very friendly head-fier (I'll leave it up to them whether they want to reveal their identity or not!)
 Super excited to get those in!


----------



## Franatic

So happy to hear you're getting the GEC 6080s! You will surely like them much
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I guess all you 12th men are celebrating a big Seahawks victory. Next week you get a Packers team with an injured Aaron Rodgers. Gotta like your chances for another Super Bowl visit.


----------



## mikoss

5998 tubes on eBay for $90 each. Not my listing as I'd buy them if they shipped to canada... Looks like only to the USA:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/331447493316?_mwBanner=1

gone, hope one of you picked them up.


----------



## Puzzles

franatic said:


> Hi Puzzles,
> 
> Thanks for the post!
> 
> How would you compare the GEC 6AS7G with it's lesser known cousin, the GEC 6080. I am curious as you are the only one I know of who has both.




Well, comes a bit late, I didn't enable notifications. 
There are audible differences between the GEC 6080WA and 6AS7G. The 6080 doesn't extend as much to top and bottom. It is warmer than the 6AS7G, a smidge softer in the bass department and not as airy in the top end (but there's enough air). To me, the 6080's warmth makes it slightly less transparent. Slightly. Both have that particular texture that I know only of GEC tubes. I think this is what you like about your 6080. And since you prefer it over the 5998, I don't think you'll gain much aside from the satisfaction of having a GEC 6AS7G. 
BTW, I tried the Svetlana 6N13S the other day and I thought that they are in a similar vein as the GEC 6AS7G. An unspectacular reference signature (the GEC seems quite unspectacular compared to 5998). Neutral with decent extension, rather smooth presentation, natural harmonics as opposed to overly vivid harmonics from the 5998, natural decay (as opposed to relaxed). Transparency is absolutely fine. They don't sound as muffled in harmonics as the standard 6AS7Gs. Typically Russian, they lack a bit dimension and depth, but it satisfies nevertheless. Also, if you have a noisy tube, you don't have to spend a fortune for a replacement.


----------



## Franatic

Thanks for the detailed description, Puzzles.
  
 I hope to acquire a pair of GEC 6AS7Gs soon and hear for myself. I recently acquired a pair of Tung Sol 6520s. That is an interesting tube. It has the power of the 5998s but with warmth of a 6AS7G. It was as if those 2 tubes had a baby. It does lose a tiny bit of the details and extensions of the 5998s, but a very nice tube for sure.
  
 So my 3 favorites are the GEC 6080, TS 5998 and the TS 6520. The one that is best depends on how I match the other components of my system.


----------



## mikoss

Looking for info/impressions on Tung Sol 5998 burn in...
  
 Just threw in some NOS 5998's and I'm finding they go extremely deep and sound very powerful, but the highs sound rather "shaky" - almost a static/sibilant feeling to them. It reminds me of clipping, but I'm certain that my DAC and levels are all good.
  
 Hoping that the highs will tame in the next 20-40 hours... anyone have experience with this as well?
  
 I also bought another pair and one of them hums slightly; it's audible between songs on headphones, but masked with speakers as they aren't quite as revealing. Bummer. Guess I'll leave them for my speakers, although I actually prefer 6AS7G's with my speaker setup as I think they gel better.


----------



## MIKELAP

mikoss said:


> Looking for info/impressions on Tung Sol 5998 burn in...
> 
> Just threw in some NOS 5998's and I'm finding they go extremely deep and sound very powerful, but the highs sound rather "shaky" - almost a static/sibilant feeling to them. It reminds me of clipping, but I'm certain that my DAC and levels are all good.
> 
> ...


 
 I had tubes that humming  dissapeared after a while time will tell


----------



## mikoss

mikelap said:


> I had tubes that humming  dissapeared after a while time will tell


 
 Cool. It's just one from a matched pair and they're NOS, so I guess it's a possibility. I'll update if it changes.


----------



## MIKELAP

mikoss said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > I had tubes that humming  dissapeared after a while time will tell
> ...


 
 Then theres a good chance they will inprove if there NOS hope for the best


----------



## mikoss

So here's a quick update:
  
 - I bought two pairs of NOS Tung Sol 5998s... both pairs had one tube that was giving me a lot of grief (pops, hissing, humming, sounding like wind blowing through my ears, etc).
  
 - Spent about 3 hours meticulously cleaning the pins on the tubes, as they were looking a bit oxidized (I used baking soda with a bit of water and scrubbed the pins as much as I could, then rinsed them very carefully with water, then used a q-tip with 91% alcohol to very finely clean them up, then water again.)
  
 One pair is now working 100% without any trouble at all... they sound fantastic.
  
 The other pair, one tube is now humming consistently. It's not my WA2, because it works absolutely fine with any other tubes.
  
 Should I try cleaning the humming tube again? Or let it sit in the amp and heat up for a couple of hours? Don't really want to hook up my headphones or speakers, as I'm afraid the humming might get worse...
  
 Appreciate your advice guys.


----------



## MIKELAP

mikoss said:


> So here's a quick update:
> 
> - I bought two pairs of NOS Tung Sol 5998s... both pairs had one tube that was giving me a lot of grief (pops, hissing, humming, sounding like wind blowing through my ears, etc).
> 
> ...


 
 Did you talk to the seller about this,see what he says maybe hes going to say  send them back or burn them in a little longer ask him see what he says .after all you didnt get them free.


----------



## mikoss

Reviewed the WA2... would be happy to hear comments from others 
http://www.head-fi.org/products/woo-audio-2/reviews/12453


----------



## Franatic

Hey Mikoss, send them back. I have 2 pair of 5998s and they do not humm, nor are they microphonic either. I wonder if they got damaged in shipping.
 My pairs each have one tube with a little piece of glass floating in them that the sellers told me about. It is why I got them for $150 a pair. This happens to them sometimes. They play perfectly though.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





franatic said:


> Hey Mikoss, send them back. I have 2 pair of 5998s and they do not humm, nor are they microphonic either. I wonder if they got damaged in shipping.
> My pairs each have one tube with a little piece of glass floating in them that the sellers told me about. It is why I got them for $150 a pair. This happens to them sometimes. They play perfectly though.


 
 Same here no problems either


----------



## Puzzles

mikoss said:


> The other pair, one tube is now humming consistently. It's not my WA2, because it works absolutely fine with any other tubes.
> 
> Should I try cleaning the humming tube again? Or let it sit in the amp and heat up for a couple of hours? Don't really want to hook up my headphones or speakers, as I'm afraid the humming might get worse...
> 
> Appreciate your advice guys.


 
  
 Keep using it. I know it's annoying, but there's not much to do other than using them. If the humming sounds rather like ringing, there is a chance that it disappears after a few on/off cycles (and most often when you've already given up on the tube). If it sounds more like rattling, then a tube damper helps in some instances. A simple silicone o-ring might be worth a try in order to check whether it helps at least a bit.
 But chances are low in my experience, so I hope you can return it. If not, you still have one tube that works. You have enough time to look out for another one with similar build & measurements.


----------



## whirlwind

I have not done much research on this amp yet...so i am going to ask a couple of questions here.
  
 How does this amp pair with the HD800
  
 A rough estimate ....how much a *great *set of tubes cost to match with the HD800
  
 I would want to grab a couple of nice sets to roll, if I decided to go this way.


----------



## OldSkool

whirlwind said:


> I have not done much research on this amp yet...so i am going to ask a couple of questions here.
> 
> How does this amp pair with the HD800
> 
> ...


 

 I find that the pairing with HD800 is terrific! I use TS5998, RFT EZ80, and Mullard CV2493. My HD800 has the Anax2 mod, also.
  
 I recently picked up a Beyer T1 and find that it has very good synergy with the WA2, as well. Will probably sell both the T1 and LCD2.2.F because I prefer the HD800 so much.
  
 YMMV.


----------



## picklgreen

billerb1 said:


> By the way, if anyone is interested I have a NOS pair of rare Tung Sol 6520's, a premium version of the 6AS7G.
> Would sell for $99 + $12 for insured USPS Priority shipping (CONUS only).  I'll eat the PayPal fees.
> PM me if interested.  They'll be available until I post "SOLD" here.




Are these domino or standard plate version? Post a pic of them. What are the test values for them?


----------



## billerb1

My apologies.  Neglected to post that I'd sold them.


----------



## Behemoth27

whirlwind said:


> I have not done much research on this amp yet...so i am going to ask a couple of questions here.
> 
> How does this amp pair with the HD800
> 
> ...




Absolutely love hd800 with my WA2. While I've upgraded a lot of things the wa2 has stayed. I've spent about 600 on tubes, but honestly was still blown away with the stock tubes. For one thing, the hd800s pair nicely because I think the 300 nominal impedance matches up well with the wa2 power output.


----------



## Kiats

Agree on the WA 2 and the HD800 and T1. Another two cans I enjoy with the WA2 are the AKG 812 and AKG702.


----------



## Franatic

I just had a very good tube find on a tube I've not been able to read anything about. It is a pair of National Electronics 421As. Evidently these were made in Geneva, Illinois for Western Electric after they stopped making 421As. Probably manufactured in the late '60s. This is a fantastic tube. I got a NOS pair for $275 on ebay...didn't want to pay 500+++ for WE421As.
  
 I currently have GEC 6AS7G & GEC 6080 along with Tung Sol 5998s....all great tubes and the GEC 6AS7G being my favorite. That has changed.
  
 The NE 421As now top my list. Open, airy, and incredibly detailed with great power. The dynamic extension from top to bottom is perfect. Deep articulate bass and extensive crystal clear highs that extend beyond anything I've heard yet. It's very similar to the Tung Sol 5998, only it does everything better. It's sort of like the comparison of the GEC 6AS7G to the GEC 6080. From my listening I would guess they are at least equal to the WE421As. I can't imagine it getting better in this amp.
  
 I've reached my end game with the Woo WA2. Currently running Brimar EZ80, Siemens CCA & NE 421A. My SQ is off the charts, as if the system is not there....only music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 ..................unless I find a pair of those damned Amperex pinched waist 6922s


----------



## walls

Probably been answered 100 times already but thought I would ask anyways. Where can I find a matched pair of TS 5998's and are the Chatham the same tube? If so where to buy? Thanks, lol.


----------



## Franatic

walls said:


> Probably been answered 100 times already but thought I would ask anyways. Where can I find a matched pair of TS 5998's and are the Chatham the same tube? If so where to buy? Thanks, lol.


 

 From what I read the Chatham 2399/5998 is pretty much the same tube as the Tung Sol and should sound great. The thing to look for is the six-dimpled "Domino" plates. I have had good luck getting them on eBay. Please check that it is a reputable seller and be patient as prices vary. Expect to pay $150-$200/pair.


----------



## Franatic

Walls, if you are willing to pay $200, this is a nice pair. I'll bet they sound great.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-JAN-CAHG-5998-Vacuum-Tubes-Same-Date-Amplitrex-Tested-100-/400862458778


----------



## walls

franatic said:


> Walls, if you are willing to pay $200, this is a nice pair. I'll bet they sound great.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-JAN-CAHG-5998-Vacuum-Tubes-Same-Date-Amplitrex-Tested-100-/400862458778




Are these truly the same as the Tung Sol's though???


----------



## Franatic

From what I read those are actually made by Tung Sol and rebranded for Chatham. I can say with reasonable confidence that it will perform just like a Tung Sol 5998.
 It even has one tube with a piece a glass in it. That is a trademark of those tubes. 2 of my 4 TS5998s have a piece of glass floating in them. It has no effect on performance.
 The listing says 30 day money back guarantee if you don't like them. How can you lose?


----------



## Behemoth27

Was hoping someone could help me with the background noise when used as a preamp (volume all the way down). I think a tube may be bad, but with headphones there is almost no noise. (EDIT: the noise is different in each channel, and travels when I swap tubes). I have to really strain to hear it with headphones and make sure it's silent in the room. However, when I use it as a preamp the noise is pretty loud. Otherwise the power amp is silent. 
  
 I'm mainly just wondering if everyone's WA2 is significantly noisier in preamp mode. Because I have no complaints about it with headphones. But the noise essentially forbids any kind of low volume listening in preamp mode. 

 Thanks


----------



## Franatic

I once had a noise problem in my audio system and it was caused by a ground loop issue caused by my input to my audio system from my cable TV system. I isolated the problem and switched my audio out of my TV from RCA to optical.....eliminating the loop.
 Just a thought, I"m sure there are many possible causes. My preamp out to my system is very quiet with virtually no noise floor. Being you don't have the noise in your headphones it doesn't seem like its tube related. Good luck.


----------



## StanT

My WA2 is dead quiet when used as a preamp.
  
 If it moves when you swap tubes, it's a tube.


----------



## Behemoth27

stant said:


> My WA2 is dead quiet when used as a preamp.
> 
> If it moves when you swap tubes, it's a tube.




Yeah I think one of the two telefunken's might be bad. But with stock tubes, it's definitely not silent. What tubes are you using?



franatic said:


> My preamp out to my system is very quiet with virtually no noise floor. Being you don't have the noise in your headphones it doesn't seem like its tube related. Good luck.




There is the slightest noise with headphones. I mean I have to try really hard to hear it. I'm going to systematically go through and take notes swapping tubes. I've only got the stock ones to compare to, but maybe I'll figure something out.

Are the left and right tubes fully independent? Or is one side considered a V1 to the other? In other words, will a tube perform the same on both sides?


----------



## StanT

behemoth27 said:


> stant said:
> 
> 
> > My WA2 is dead quiet when used as a preamp.
> ...


 
 Chatham 2399s, Mazda E88cc, & RFT EZ80 at the moment.  I really didn't care for the stock tubes.
  
 The Chatham2399s are the same as 5998s, the Mazda are identical to Phillips SQ


----------



## walls

franatic said:


> Walls, if you are willing to pay $200, this is a nice pair. I'll bet they sound great.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-JAN-CAHG-5998-Vacuum-Tubes-Same-Date-Amplitrex-Tested-100-/400862458778




Bought them, will be here Tuesday. Will let you know my thoughts after I hear them. Thanks!


----------



## Prophet293

any WA2 owners have the HD800? how does the WA2 sound compare to the HDVD800?


----------



## mikoss

Oh boy, I would be interested in hearing the WA2 + HD-800's myself. I can't even imagine the soundstaging you'd get with some of the tube combos (7236 power tubes come to mind...)
  
 I'd guess you might need to be wary of the top end as I've heard this is the biggest nitpick of the 800's (if there is something to nitpick). The WA2 can be warm, smooth and airy though, so I'd think it would sound very nice with 800's... sorry I haven't auditioned them with it, but I'll try at the next meet. I'm hesitant to get a pair as I'm in love with the 650's myself.


----------



## mikoss

dubstep girl said:


> HD 650 and DT 990-600 both work really well with the WA2.
> 
> and the HD 800s work really well with the WA2. i typically enjoy them with 5998/7236 tubes.
> 
> Today actually i just received a pair of RFT EZ80 i bought from ebay after seeing how its a solid choice for an EZ80. and i thinking im starting to really really like the HD 800. the smoothness, clear treble, transparency, its just such a good rectifier, a little better than the Tesla EZ81 i was using and much better than the stock rectifier.




This is from page 50 from Dubstep Girl, who I consider a tube rolling master.


----------



## MIKELAP

mikoss said:


> Oh boy, I would be interested in hearing the WA2 + HD-800's myself. I can't even imagine the soundstaging you'd get with some of the tube combos (7236 power tubes come to mind...)
> 
> I'd guess you might need to be wary of the top end as I've heard this is the biggest nitpick of the 800's (if there is something to nitpick). The WA2 can be warm, smooth and airy though, so I'd think it would sound very nice with 800's... sorry I haven't auditioned them with it, but I'll try at the next meet. I'm hesitant to get a pair as I'm in love with the 650's myself.


 
 Personnally i have no problems with the top end i find them  to have  very well balanced sound for me ,your not talking Denon bass quantity but a better quality bass  and depending on recording no shortage of bass either but it is more neutral sounding compared to lets say Denons and this is with the Burson Conductors Dac.great for classical . Montreal show coming up from 27 to 29 march  always interesting but at the same time for me it was an eye opener because of where im at gearwize the more expensive gear is only subtancially better imo so that cured me of any upgraditist i was thinking of .Auditioning first is always better.


----------



## Franatic

walls said:


> Bought them, will be here Tuesday. Will let you know my thoughts after I hear them. Thanks!


 
 Hey Walls
  
 You will love those tubes with your T1s! They will improve the details, imaging and soundstage nicely. What driver tubes are you using? Upgrading the driver tubes has almost as much impact as the power tubes on your SQ.


----------



## walls

I am using the stock tubes, even though I have had the amp over a year it has sounded so good that I haven't really had a desire to roll tubes. What tubes are you all using for the drivers then?


----------



## Franatic

walls said:


> I am using the stock tubes, even though I have had the amp over a year it has sounded so good that I haven't really had a desire to roll tubes. What tubes are you all using for the drivers then?


 

 I have 2 tubes I can highly recommend:
 I am currently running a pair of Siemens CCAs and these tubes are amazing, exquisite details, completely transparent with great imaging. I also like the Amperex 6922 PQ white label. These have a beautiful smooth presentation. Not as transparent or detailed as the CCAs but slightly warmer signature and a joy to listen to.
  
 Everything else I have tried fall behind these 2. There are a couple good deals presently on eBay on these:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-CCa-1-pair-E88CC-ECC88-/111601665113?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19fbfa4459
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Amperex-PQ-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-ECC88-tubes-Large-getter-Test-NOS-/181665182452?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4c16b2f4
  
 Very good prices, probably due to the poor printing on the tubes. That happens, the tubes can still be NOS or very close to it.


----------



## mikoss

Hey guys
  
 Got a couple of GEC 6080 tubes in my WA2 right now and they sound phenomenal... absolutely stunning sound. I'd like to comment some more, but I am going to ship them off to @billerb1 because I want him to hear them too. They're paired up with some Holland Miniwatt driver tubes, and I really feel like I'm getting the full experience from these tubes.
  
 Without sounding like a lunatic, the experience that I'm having is that I feel like the individual layers of the music are suspended in the air for me to admire, like clouds in the sky. I've always felt like really nice tubes seem to "slow everything down" and allow me to experience the music in a way that is organic and fulfilling beyond belief.
  
 Alright, enough crazy talk! @Franatic I am seriously considering CCa's now and I can't even imagine how great your WA2 sounds with the GEC 6AS7G's... damn.


----------



## Franatic

Mikoss, look at you, waxing poetic about your tubes and sound quality!!. You're like me in that all this is magic to you. I love to hear someone who gets so much enjoyment from their music...as do I 
  
 Glad you love the GEC 6080s. They do get topped by their big brother, the GEC 6AS7G. This tube has a similar sound , but just does everything a little better.
  
 I guess you didn't read my post #1097 about the 421As.....the GEC 6AS7Gs are currently on the sideline. Those 421As are heaven. Soooo much air!! It's very much like the way you described the 6080s above. I would love for you to hear these...but can't part with them......yet. So very good are these tubes!!  
  
 Kudos to you for parting with your GEC 60680s so @billerb1 can check them out. That is incredibly kind of you since you just got them and love them so much.


----------



## mikoss

@Franatic rolling the famous WE 421A's!? Excellent! I think you pretty much have the dream machine WA2 now. Have you thought to roll different driver or rectifier tubes at all, or is everything all dialled in to perfection? 

The only thing that worries me is I only have the Ei EZ80's that came with my WA2 and maybe someday they'll die. They seem to be a bit elusive to find online, or maybe I'm just not looking in the right spots. Also, not entirely sure which rectifier tubes are 100% compatible with EZ80's.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

EZ80 = 6V4 (also known as CV1535)
 EZ81 = 6CA4 (also known by U709, UU12, CV4058, CV5072)
  
 both easily availble and other good NOS examples by Mullard, Mazda, Telefunken, Tungsram, Philips and RTF. I like the Mullard best.


----------



## mikoss

nic rhodes said:


> EZ80 = 6V4 (also known as CV1535)
> EZ81 = 6CA4 (also known by U709, UU12, CV4058, CV5072)
> 
> both easily availble and other good NOS examples by Mullard, Mazda, Telefunken, Tungsram, Philips and RTF. I like the Mullard best.


 
 And sorry, the big question... EZ81 is completely compatible with the EZ80's? As in, they can be rolled into the WA2?
  
 edit: Google'd around and found this from AK:
 The EZ80 and EZ81 are pin compatible, but their specs are different.
 EZ81 has lower R(a):120Ohms vz 300Ohms on EZ80;
 EZ81 can handle higher current I(dc): 100mA vs 90ma oof EZ80
 EZ81 can handle twice ripple current I(r): 500mA vs 270 of EZ 80
  
 and apparently someone posted here saying Jack says the WA2 can handle the extra current in the rectifier circuit from the EZ81's.


----------



## Behemoth27

mikoss said:


> The only thing that worries me is I only have the Ei EZ80's that came with my WA2 and maybe someday they'll die. They seem to be a bit elusive to find online, or maybe I'm just not looking in the right spots. Also, not entirely sure which rectifier tubes are 100% compatible with EZ80's.




Just bought some on eBay. I had heard good things about them in the wa2 so thought I'd give it a try. Seller from England. Here is their site, but I went through eBay. Lots of feedback. http://pmcomponentsnos.co.uk/Ei-EZ80

I actually recieved them today. Have not gave them a listen yet though.


----------



## earthpeople

mikoss said:


> And sorry, the big question... EZ81 is completely compatible with the EZ80's? As in, they can be rolled into the WA2?
> 
> edit: Google'd around and found this from AK:
> The EZ80 and EZ81 are pin compatible, but their specs are different.
> ...


 
  
 Yes, they're listed on the compatible tubes chart for the WA2. I've got a pair of RFT EZ81 in mine right now.


----------



## billerb1

EZ80's and EZ81's are good to go in the WA2.  Switched awhile back from the RFT EZ80's which I was running when I was using the TS5998's.  I got somehow addicted to the TS7236's and found that my current Brimar EZ81's accentuated that new elegant 7236 sound signature more to my ears.
 Shout out to mikoss for his generosity and congrats to Franatic for his THEFT of those 421's !!!!  You guys rock.


----------



## Franatic

billerb1 said:


> EZ80's and EZ81's are good to go in the WA2.  Switched awhile back from the RFT EZ80's which I was running when I was using the TS5998's.  I got somehow addicted to the TS7236's and found that my current Brimar EZ81's accentuated that new elegant 7236 sound signature more to my ears.
> Shout out to mikoss for his generosity and congrats to Franatic for his THEFT of those 421's !!!!  You guys rock.


 

 Those 421As Rock.....and I roll ) I also like the Brimars, I have the EZ80s. They have stayed in my amp since I got them, and you know nothing stays that long unless I'm convinced it's best. My top 3: Brimars, RFT then EI...all EZ80s. The good news is the rectifiers are cheap, you shouldn't have to spend more than $30/pair.


----------



## Behemoth27

behemoth27 said:


> Just bought some on eBay. I had heard good things about them in the wa2 so thought I'd give it a try. Seller from England. Here is their site, but I went through eBay. Lots of feedback. http://pmcomponentsnos.co.uk/Ei-EZ80
> 
> I actually recieved them today. Have not gave them a listen yet though.




Wow, do not buy these. Put them in the woo yesterday. Warmed them up for at least half an hour. Half a second of some distortion sound occurred on warm up. I figured no big deal. Sometime within the first half hour the music started making horrible sounds so I quicky turned it off. Reseated everything and tried again. Then it kicked my power amp into protect mode. Pulled out the ez80's immediately and replaced with stock EH I had. Distortion on warm up still there. I got very worried. Replaced all tubes. All is good now. 

Seems like they ruined at least one other tube in the chain. I didn't have time to notice if noise was coming out of both speakers. The sound is that horrible loud sound like when you accidentally turn off power amp with preamp still on. 

Just felt I needed to give a warning to you guys. This seller gives warranty on tubes, but they're defintely going back.


----------



## Franatic

behemoth27 said:


> Wow, do not buy these. Put them in the woo yesterday. Warmed them up for at least half an hour. Half a second of some distortion sound occurred on warm up. I figured no big deal. Sometime within the first half hour the music started making horrible sounds so I quicky turned it off. Reseated everything and tried again. Then it kicked my power amp into protect mode. Pulled out the ez80's immediately and replaced with stock EH I had. Distortion on warm up still there. I got very worried. Replaced all tubes. All is good now.
> 
> Seems like they ruined at least one other tube in the chain. I didn't have time to notice if noise was coming out of both speakers. The sound is that horrible loud sound like when you accidentally turn off power amp with preamp still on.
> 
> Just felt I needed to give a warning to you guys. This seller gives warranty on tubes, but they're defintely going back.


 

 Damn, that is scary and expensive. Since the rectifier sets the voltages for all the tubes, it can damage them if it's bad. I also received a bad EI EZ80 and it burned white hot and died instantly. Luckily it did not damage anything but itself. I had it replaced and the EIs sounded good but I became a bit wary of them and rolled them out for RFTs, which sounded better....and then Brimar EZ80s which were better still and I've settled on them.  Maybe the EIs aren't such a reliable brand.


----------



## billerb1

behemoth27 said:


> Wow, do not buy these. Put them in the woo yesterday. Warmed them up for at least half an hour. Half a second of some distortion sound occurred on warm up. I figured no big deal. Sometime within the first half hour the music started making horrible sounds so I quicky turned it off. Reseated everything and tried again. Then it kicked my power amp into protect mode. Pulled out the ez80's immediately and replaced with stock EH I had. Distortion on warm up still there. I got very worried. Replaced all tubes. All is good now.
> 
> Seems like they ruined at least one other tube in the chain. I didn't have time to notice if noise was coming out of both speakers. The sound is that horrible loud sound like when you accidentally turn off power amp with preamp still on.
> 
> Just felt I needed to give a warning to you guys. This seller gives warranty on tubes, but they're defintely going back.


 

 Oh my God.  You are going to give my man Mikoss a heart attack.


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> Oh my God.  You are going to give my man Mikoss a heart attack.


 
 lol the price of Brimar EZ80's already has. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My Ei's have been in the WA2 since I got it, so I'm sure they're fine. I would like to find some Brimars though. Like actually find a pair for sale... I can only find singles for a lotta cashola.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> lol the price of Brimar EZ80's already has.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Mike, you might want to check these out.  They look identical to the Brimar EZ81's that I switched to except the "foreign" near the bottom of the tube.  Boxes very similar with all the same numbers.  Can't beat the price.  Take a look...
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311295981639?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## mikoss

Excellent, thank you!

Anyone interested in these 

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=291312525327


----------



## billerb1

...and another thought.  I had the Brimar EZ80's Blackburn made and was using them when I first got my WA2 with the TS5998's.  They sounded great...but then I tried the RFT EZ80's and found them more musical and 'alive' to my ears.  If you haven't tried the RFT's you might...you can always find them dirt cheap.  I do wish I would have held onto the Brimar EZ80's to hear with the TS7236's however.  Win some, lose some.


----------



## Franatic

I rarely see much talk about the rectifiers, as they have the least effect of the 3 types used in the WA2. I found their effects and differences more subtle to detect. As you say Bill, I found the RFT EZ80s to be very musical and seemed to get everything just right. However, I found the Brimar EZ80s to give the most open and detailed sound.
  
 I didn't really like the only  EZ81s I tried which were Siemens.  They were the most expensive at $60/pair but they seemed to make the pace of the music too fast and edgy to my ears. So I kind of gave up on the EZ81s. Does the higher current rating affect tube lifespans and what are the general differences between them?? I've only tried one, so my knowledge of the EZ81s is limited.


----------



## Behemoth27

Are these the real deal? Brimar rebranded as Westinghouse? I'm wary of eBay tubes, but 7k feedback is some assurance. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6V4-EZ80-Tube-Brimar-England-NOS-Full-Wave-Rectifier-O-Getter-Woo-WA2-4-Westnghs-/151581723538?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item234af98b92


----------



## Franatic

All the rebranding going on gets hard to keep track of. I have checked the construction of the tube vs my Brimar EZ80s and it looks exactly the same. All the other EZ80s I've seen look different. I think it is very likely a Brimar made one. That being said , the price is high. I recently paid $20 shipped for a Brimar EZ80.


----------



## Behemoth27

Franatic - would you mind letting me know where you got yours from?


----------



## Franatic

behemoth27 said:


> Franatic - would you mind letting me know where you got yours from?


 
 Hey Behemoth,
 I got it on ebay a week ago. I was going to get another eventually for a back-up pair. I"ll pm you tonight. You can get this one at cost from me if it helps you put a pair together.


----------



## Puzzles

So I have this 6N1P-E and a Mullard 6080 that occasionally produce a burst of white noise, an unpleasantly loud version of the windows/mac sound that occurs when throwing some file into the trash. It was the first time that I used these particular tubes in the WA2. Does anyone know whether that's normal when they're new and will that noise disappear eventually? Or should I better throw them away?


----------



## JohnBal

puzzles said:


> So I have this 6N1P-E and a Mullard 6080 that occasionally produce a burst of white noise, an unpleasantly loud version of the windows/mac sound that occurs when throwing some file into the trash. It was the first time that I used these particular tubes in the WA2. Does anyone know whether that's normal when they're new and will that noise disappear eventually? Or should I better throw them away?


 
 You might want to try making sure the pins are clean. Buff them with fine steel wool or really fine grit sand paper. Make sure all/any debris is removed before you put them back in. Make sure they are seated completely. Give it another try. If they are still making strange noises, I would remove them for fear they may damage something in the Woo or my headphone. Good luck!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I bought some more EZ80 yesterday, Amperex 1973 tubes, <£7 a tube so these tubes are especially easy to get at low prices, EZ81s perhaps a little more but both are still low price even for the best tubes. Get them while you still can..


----------



## Behemoth27

So I got a pair of RCA 6as7g from a huge tube seller on eBay. (Over 9k feedback). Start warming them up in the woo. I get that same horrible noise as I did with the Ei ez80's. Power amp kicked into protect mode immediately. Pulled them out. Replaced with tung sol 7236. Wa2 warms up just fine. What is going?! 

Did I actually damage the wa2 with those ez80's. Something that can't charge up on first power up maybe? I just doubt that I got another pair of bad tubes. Or am I really that unlucky? Is the wa2 sensitive to brand new tubes? Each of the sets was sold as NOS. I don't want to keep troubleshooting if I'm going to do damage. 

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## Puzzles

behemoth27 said:


> So I got a pair of RCA 6as7g from a huge tube seller on eBay. (Over 9k feedback). Start warming them up in the woo. I get that same horrible noise as I did with the Ei ez80's. Power amp kicked into protect mode immediately. Pulled them out. Replaced with tung sol 7236. Wa2 warms up just fine. What is going?!
> 
> Did I actually damage the wa2 with those ez80's. Something that can't charge up on first power up maybe? I just doubt that I got another pair of bad tubes. Or am I really that unlucky? Is the wa2 sensitive to brand new tubes? Each of the sets was sold as NOS. I don't want to keep troubleshooting if I'm going to do damage.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


 
  
 I had the same thing (see a few posts above), also with RCA tubes from the 50s. Turn out the lights and you will occasionally see a tiny flash around the lower radiator. I trashed them because they kept doing it.


----------



## Franatic

Behemoth
  
 You definitely need to contact Woo Audio customer service on this one. Where did you purchase this? Is it still under warranty?
  
 Here is the contact of the person who helped me when one of my tubes was bad when I received my WA2:  mike@wooaudio.com
  
Good Luck


----------



## Behemoth27

franatic said:


> Behemoth
> 
> You definitely need to contact Woo Audio customer service on this one. Where did you purchase this? Is it still under warranty?
> 
> ...




Yeah, I probably will end up contacting them. I purchased it directly from woo website. Should still be under warranty. But right now I'm thinking it should just be bad tubes. Why would it work fine with 7236's and not the 6as7g. I'm going to try and find somewhere to test tubes near me. As of right now, I'll refrain from rolling. But if I experience any more noise I'll be sending it directly to woo.


----------



## mikoss

Fwiw I have a couple pairs of RCA 6as7g's purchased cheap off eBay as tested nos and used/testing good. Both work fine, no flashes. The seller is cjt13b. 

Hopefully there is no damage to your WA2. I've spoken with a local audio store owner who told me OTL amps are less prone to being damaged by faulty tubes, but I have no idea if that is true. There are no transformer windings to worry about, but there are chokes (inductors/reactors) which I imagine could still overheat or burn up on a short circuit. 

I'm not a tube or amp technician, just what I've heard. Hope you have better luck. I like the sound of the RCA tubes, I think they're a great deal for the price.


----------



## StanT

> Why would it work fine with 7236's and not the 6as7g. I'm going to try and find somewhere to test tubes near me. As of right now, I'll refrain from rolling. But if I experience any more noise I'll be sending it directly to woo.


 
 In my experience, 7236s are as stable and reliable as tubes get, 5998s less so (even though I prefer them). 6as7gs try my patience.
  
 Tube sellers test tubes on a machine, rather than listen to them. It's very possible for tubes to test fine and still have an audio issue.
  
 I'd start with a set of tubes that you know to be good and swap one pair at a time. Give it a day or two before deciding that a pair is good.


----------



## Puzzles

mikoss said:


> Fwiw I have a couple pairs of RCA 6as7g's purchased cheap off eBay as tested nos and used/testing good. Both work fine, no flashes. The seller is cjt13b.


 
  
 My experience is that even the most reputable dealers have a few noisy or bad tubes. The only thing that most dealers can do is checking for gas and shorts but they can't check for noise.
 I had two pairs of TS 6AS7G from cjt13b on eBay oh which two tubes were grossly rattling, a flashing RCA 6AS7G and dysfunctional Sylvania 6CA4 from Tube World, a flashing Mullard 6080 from Electols, a noisy Mullard 6080 from Langrex and the a rattling GEC 6AS7G from Valvetubes.
 Since I've purchased many other tubes from all of them and most tubes did work, so I'm not overly suspicious of any dealer. Most of them sent replacements anyway.


----------



## mikoss

puzzles said:


> My experience is that even the most reputable dealers have a few noisy or bad tubes. The only thing that most dealers can do is checking for gas and shorts but they can't check for noise.
> I had two pairs of TS 6AS7G from cjt13b on eBay oh which two tubes were grossly rattling, a flashing RCA 6AS7G and dysfunctional Sylvania 6CA4 from Tube World, a flashing Mullard 6080 from Electols, a noisy Mullard 6080 from Langrex and the a rattling GEC 6AS7G from Valvetubes.
> Since I've purchased many other tubes from all of them and most tubes did work, so I'm not overly suspicious of any dealer. Most of them sent replacements anyway.


 






 I must have much better luck from "fleaBay" - just had the pair of TS 5998's where one gave me issues.


----------



## billerb1

Speaking of Tung Sol 5998's, I've decided to sell my last remaining pair.  They were bought NOS and matched... have about 250 or so hours on them now.  No tube noise, microphonics or any BS.  Dead quiet.  $199 + $12 USPS Priority shipping (CONUS only).  I'll eat the Paypal fee.  PM me.


 ************** S O L D *************


----------



## Behemoth27

Anyone using a 7DJ8 / PCC88 instead? My understanding is they're essentially compatible with any device that uses 6DJD.
  
 They seem to be cheaper and I was hoping to grab some for mainly back up purposes. And of course to give them a listen


----------



## mikoss

Yes, put some pinched waist PCC88's in yesterday... they sound amazing.
  
 I think 7DJ8's are completely compatible... just have 7V rated heater filaments instead of 6.3V


----------



## Puzzles

behemoth27 said:


> Anyone using a 7DJ8 / PCC88 instead? My understanding is they're essentially compatible with any device that uses 6DJD.
> 
> They seem to be cheaper and I was hoping to grab some for mainly back up purposes. And of course to give them a listen


 
  
  
 It works fine and it's listed in the manual as compatible with the WA2. There are some nice gems among them, e.g. Philips (dimpled disk) or Siemens Halske. The Telefunken PCC88 got quite expensive but are still cheaper than their E88CC counterpart. My current favorite is the Matsu****a PCC88 (which I use more often than the Siemens-Halske CCa and Telefunken E88CC). More interesting pearls are the Mullard PCC88 with pinched waist and Lorenz Stuttgart PCC88, but they're hard to find and the prices are nuts.


----------



## walls

franatic said:


> Hey Walls
> 
> You will love those tubes with your T1s! They will improve the details, imaging and soundstage nicely. What driver tubes are you using? Upgrading the driver tubes has almost as much impact as the power tubes on your SQ.




Well I had to send these back to the seller as one tube was making my amp buzz horribly. I end d up buying a matched pair of TS 5998's and they are stellar! A serious improvement over the stock tubes. 

Now to start rolling the other tubes.....


----------



## Franatic

walls said:


> Well I had to send these back to the seller as one tube was making my amp buzz horribly. I end d up buying a matched pair of TS 5998's and they are stellar! A serious improvement over the stock tubes.
> 
> Now to start rolling the other tubes.....


 

 Walls
  
 Unfortunately tubes can get damaged in shipping, which is most likely what happened. I've had 2 bad tubes, an RCA 6080 power tube when I received my amp and an EI EZ80 tube from Ebay Yugoslavia. Both times I had the tube replaced. Glad you got a nice pair of 5998s. I'm listening to 421As right now....ooh la la!
  
 Hopefully you'll have better luck with your driver tubes....never got a bad one of those.......yet :/


----------



## walls

Kind of worked out for me as the Pair of TS were a tad cheaper. 

I've had quite a few pairs of tubes delivered for my other amps and have only had one bad one with those, it's a gamble. Lol


----------



## mikoss

So, got those Brimar EZ81 tubes in the WA2... I've had them in for a couple of days now and probably approaching the 40 hour mark. 
  
 At first, I didn't hear much of a difference compared with the Ei EZ80's, but listening with the HD-650s, I'm really feeling a nice spaciousness, with the Sylvania 7236 tubes. I've always felt the soundstage/separation of the 7236 tubes was great, but I'm pretty sure it's stretched even further out now. I was telling @billerb1 how they sound about the same as the Ei rectifiers, so I haven't really heard a big change in tonality, or impact of bass per se. What is sticking with me is everything I love about the WA2... refinement, and a smooth easiness in presentation. Very nice.
  
 These ones I'm pretty sure are made in France... can't really find much for etching/coding on the tubes, but the box says "Valve Electronic 10CV 5960-99-000 5072 EZ81 CV5072 Foreign"
  
 Tubes just say Brimar Valve EZ81 / CV5072 Foreign


----------



## Franatic

Mikoss, it's nice to hear you enjoying your WA2............rockin'............and lots of rollin' 
  
 I just ordered a pair of Brimar EZ81s, NOS, made in England. I am currently running Brimar EZ80s. I am curious to hear the difference between the two. The Brimar EZ80s won the shootout I had with Brimar, EI, RFT, and Telefunken EZ80s. The Brimars had the clearest, most transparent and spacious sound. Paired with the CCA and 421A, they give the most open, detailed and huge presentation I can get on this amp.
  
 I love that you can develop other pleasing qualities in the WA2 with other tube combinations. That is what is so great about tube rollin' with the WA2. If you ever get bored with how it sounds, get rollin'.
  
 I will post my impressions of the Brimar EZ81, especially in comparison to the Brimar EZ80.


----------



## ru4music

franatic said:


> Mikoss, it's nice to hear you enjoying your WA2............rockin'............and lots of rollin'
> 
> I just ordered a pair of Brimar EZ81s, NOS, made in England. I am currently running Brimar EZ80s. I am curious to hear the difference between the two. The Brimar EZ80s won the shootout I had with Brimar, EI, RFT, and Telefunken EZ80s. The Brimars had the clearest, most transparent and spacious sound. Paired with the CCA and 421A, they give the most open, detailed and huge presentation I can get on this amp.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, please let us know your results.  I run the Brimar EZ80, 5998, and Amperex PQ 6922 in my setup.


----------



## Franatic

ru4music said:


> Yes, please let us know your results.  I run the Brimar EZ80, 5998, and Amperex PQ 6922 in my setup.


 
 ru4music............................Yes, I am!
  
 I like the Brimar EZ81s. They sound as clean and transparent as their EZ80 brothers. I think they are a tiny bit better. To my ears a slightly bigger sound with more depth. Not a big difference, but enough where I believe I hear it.
  
 So they go to #1 on my list. If anyone thinks they there is a better one, I'd be interested in trying it.


----------



## billerb1

franatic said:


> ru4music............................Yes, I am!
> 
> I like the Brimar EZ81s. They sound as clean and transparent as their EZ80 brothers. I think they are a tiny bit better. To my ears a slightly bigger sound with more depth. Not a big difference, but enough where I believe I hear it.
> 
> So they go to #1 on my list. If anyone thinks they there is a better one, I'd be interested in trying it.


 
  
 Made the same move myself, Fran.  More meat with the Brimar EZ81 in my system as well...no downside vs the Brimar EZ80 that I can hear.


----------



## mikoss

Oh you guys! Always finding the best sound, and then bettering it by a pinch. 

I'll look for some EZ81's, but I am seriously in love with the Brimar ez80 + Tung Sol 7236 combo.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Oh you guys! Always finding the best sound, and then bettering it by a pinch.
> 
> I'll look for some EZ81's, but I am seriously in love with the Brimar ez80 + Tung Sol 7236 combo.


 
  
 I could have sworn you got some Brimar EZ81's.  No?  I think you had yourself convinced the ones you got were French made but they looked identical to my UK made Brimar EZ81's


----------



## mikoss

billerb1 said:


> I could have sworn you got some Brimar EZ81's.  No?  I think you had yourself convinced the ones you got were French made but they looked identical to my UK made Brimar EZ81's


 
 oh man, I did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thank you Bill. Way too many tubes these days to keep track lol


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> oh man, I did
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What's a mother to do ??


----------



## Franatic

mikoss said:


> oh man, I did
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That reminds me, I need to take a tube inventory. I have a few 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Maybe I'll put some up for sale.....or donate some to charity....and no you can"t have my GEC 6AS7Gs.
  
 I just scored a back-up pair of National Electronics 421As on ebay for $168. I like them as much as the Westerns, maybe better. They have so much air and produce layers of sound. A touch less bass, but man what a nice tube.
  
 Keep rollin' guys....what power tubes are you running these days, Mikoss?
  
 My next move is to get the ifi idsd pro coming out in the end of May. It's gonna be a game changer. for sure. I have much confidence in that company's capabilities.


----------



## Franatic

Oh, I meant what driver tubes, Mikoss. Obviously TS7236 are power tubes. I'm pretty much stuck on my CCAs, combined with the 421As the WA2 opens up to a huge and transparent soundstage.
  
 I think I have a pair of TS7236s. I haven't listened to them since the beginning. It would be interesting to hear them in my system now. We've come a long way since then.


----------



## billerb1

franatic said:


> That reminds me, I need to take a tube inventory. I have a few
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I saw those Nationals, Fran, and almost bid on them but then didn't.  I think my plan is to save up for the GEC 6AS7G's that
 you WON'T sell to me.  Presently the happiest I've ever been running 1956 Holland made Valvo CCa E88CC Pinched Waist/1957 Holland made Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist as my driver tubes, TS7236 power tubes and the above-mentioned Brimar UK EZ81's.  Closest sound to being in the studio that I've heard to date.  Couldn't be happier...'cept for not having those GEC's.


----------



## Franatic

billerb1 said:


> I saw those Nationals, Fran, and almost bid on them but then didn't.  I think my plan is to save up for the GEC 6AS7G's that
> you WON'T sell to me.  Presently the happiest I've ever been running 1956 Holland made Valvo CCa E88CC Pinched Waist/1957 Holland made Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist as my driver tubes, TS7236 power tubes and the above-mentioned Brimar UK EZ81's.  Closest sound to being in the studio that I've heard to date.  Couldn't be happier...'cept for not having those GEC's.


 

 Hey Bill, you have a "1956 Holland made Valvo CCa E88CC Pinched Waist/1957 Holland made Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist"pair. I would trade you my GECs for them but you probably suckd most of the life outta them by now. The pinched waist Amperex 6922s have beeen on my radar for awhile but I've not found a reasonably priced pair...if you can find them at all. That is one area where you got me. I'll keep looking, maybe I'll get lucky like you.
  
 Let me know if you want to check out the Nationals, I'll send them out to you.


----------



## mikoss

franatic said:


> Keep rollin' guys....what power tubes are you running these days, Mikoss?


 
  
 Hey Fran, I was actually watching a pair of 421A National tubes being sold on eBay from a Canadian, and accidentally missed the snipe. (Probably serves me right for trying to snipe them anyway). They ended up selling for I think less than $200 which seems like a great price.
  
 Driver tubes... mostly sticking with the Phillips Holland Miniwatt E188CC tubes. They're my go-to tubes for a balanced, refined sound with a warmed up midrange. The HD-650's are really sounding holographic with them in the WA2, so I'm liking it. Just waiting on a pair of new to me LCD-3 Fazor's... would have been here Friday, but the mail is closed down this weekend (and today), so they should be here tomorrow.
  
 Also found a few pinched waist tubes here and there... using them in the tube buffer of the DAC and loving them. Top of the 6922 food chain for rich, organic tonality. Love their presentation.


----------



## billerb1

franatic said:


> Hey Bill, you have a "1956 Holland made Valvo CCa E88CC Pinched Waist/1957 Holland made Amperex 6922 Pinched Waist"pair. I would trade you my GECs for them but you probably suckd most of the life outta them by now. The pinched waist Amperex 6922s have beeen on my radar for awhile but I've not found a reasonably priced pair...if you can find them at all. That is one area where you got me. I'll keep looking, maybe I'll get lucky like you.
> 
> Let me know if you want to check out the Nationals, I'll send them out to you.



 


Thanks for the offer, Fran. But don't do it...at least for now. I'd just want them and my Pinched Waist excursions have left me homeless.


----------



## Franatic

mikoss said:


> Hey Fran, I was actually watching a pair of 421A National tubes being sold on eBay from a Canadian, and accidentally missed the snipe. (Probably serves me right for trying to snipe them anyway). They ended up selling for I think less than $200 which seems like a great price.
> 
> Driver tubes... mostly sticking with the Phillips Holland Miniwatt E188CC tubes. They're my go-to tubes for a balanced, refined sound with a warmed up midrange. The HD-650's are really sounding holographic with them in the WA2, so I'm liking it. Just waiting on a pair of new to me LCD-3 Fazor's... would have been here Friday, but the mail is closed down this weekend (and today), so they should be here tomorrow.
> 
> Also found a few pinched waist tubes here and there... using them in the tube buffer of the DAC and loving them. Top of the 6922 food chain for rich, organic tonality. Love their presentation.


 

 Hi Mike! Guess who "sniped" those Nationals...yep   Glad we didn't get in a bidding war. Bill's not interested in trying them so I'll offer you the opportunity to check em out after I get them. Let me know.
  
 I have a pair of Amperex 6922 PQ whites that are very good...but I can't take the CCAs out.....maybe some pinched waist 6922s could bump them out. I will keep looking......gotta buy the idsd pro next month first though.
  
 I just got my T1s back. I sent them to Poland to get them recabled by Forza with this:
 http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=72
 Awesome upgrade....so much more revealing and accurate with this cable. I'm glad I invested in upgrading rather than getting a second pair of cans.


----------



## mikoss

Lol nicely done Fran. That cable looks sick. I still want to hear the Beyer T1's that you and Bill listen with. I'm afraid my ears might bleed since they're used to the rolled off HD-650 treble... I've found I'm prone to fatigue with a lot of the setups people are using with newer more revealing phones. But tubes do tend to fix that... Who knows. 

So do the 421a tubes have the same overall sound as 5998 tubes? My take on the 5998 tubes was power... I personally find them to offer a v shaped presentation, with an emphasis on bass and treble. I found the (cheap RCA) 6as7g's to be more balanced sounding, but less intimate/refined. 
I'd suspect that from their reputation, the GEC 6as7g's would be neutral and detailed, sort of like your CCa tubes. I also haven't heard for sure whether the 421A's are the same as 5998's or not.


----------



## hodgjy

mikoss said:


> I also haven't heard for sure whether the 421A's are the same as 5998's or not.


 
 This has been debated extensively, and there's no absolute answer written anywhere in stone. However, nothing anyone can ever tell me will convince me they are different tubes or sound any differently. The main people saying they are better and sound better are the sellers looking to turn a profit on them. The end users often cannot tell them apart outside of expectation bias.


----------



## Franatic

mikoss said:


> Lol nicely done Fran. That cable looks sick. I still want to hear the Beyer T1's that you and Bill listen with. I'm afraid my ears might bleed since they're used to the rolled off HD-650 treble... I've found I'm prone to fatigue with a lot of the setups people are using with newer more revealing phones. But tubes do tend to fix that... Who knows.
> 
> So do the 421a tubes have the same overall sound as 5998 tubes? My take on the 5998 tubes was power... I personally find them to offer a v shaped presentation, with an emphasis on bass and treble. I found the (cheap RCA) 6as7g's to be more balanced sounding, but less intimate/refined.
> I'd suspect that from their reputation, the GEC 6as7g's would be neutral and detailed, sort of like your CCa tubes. I also haven't heard for sure whether the 421A's are the same as 5998's or not.


 
 Yes, these T1s are really sweet....a very nice upgrade.
  
 I have owned both the TS 5998, the Western Electric 421A and the National Electronics (origin debatable) 421A.
  
 I find the 421A very superior to the 5998 based on MY listening experience, not my technical knowledge of tubes. The main difference I hear is the impartment of air into the system by the 421A.. This is superior to any other power tube. It creates layers of sound and a larger soundstage. I would say it has a similar sound profile as the 5998 but much more pleasant to listen to. When I first heard them, I was taken aback. I was not expecting such a difference. The Nationals have more air, the Westerns more bass, both excellent.
  
 It is interesting, many people whose tube knowledge I respect and that far exceeds mine, did not find such a difference. I've owned all the good power tubes for the WA2, so I have a good basis for making a qualified judgement.
  
 I will continue to enjoy my 421As. My GEC 6AS7Gs are having a hard time getting back in my amp.
  
 I use the WA2 preamp function a lot. The airy quality of the 421A is even more evident in my speaker system.


----------



## billerb1

franatic said:


> Yes, these T1s are really sweet....a very nice upgrade.
> 
> I have owned both the TS 5998, the Western Electric 421A and the National Electronics (origin debatable) 421A.
> 
> ...



 


You are a fortunate man to have the best tubes for the WA2. And it's such a shame that those GEC's are collecting dust...and probably always will. Such a waste. I could help you with your 'problem'. You know, Fran...the first step in getting help is admitting you have a 'problem'.
I'm here to help.


----------



## Franatic

> >
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ah Bill, you're killing me, now I fell bad. I know eventually I'll want to change up the sound of my WA2 and use them. How about a pair of GEC 6080s, they're almost as good!
  
 As far as problems, I've gone 23 years without indulging my big "problem", one day at a time. I'm truly blessed!


----------



## billerb1

franatic said:


> Ah Bill, you're killing me, now I fell bad. I know eventually I'll want to change up the sound of my WA2 and use them. How about a pair of GEC 6080s, they're almost as good!
> 
> As far as problems, I've gone 23 years without indulging my big "problem", one day at a time. I'm truly blessed!



 


I already have the GEC6080's from Mike. They are very nice...that's why I want big brother.

Don't you have an expensive purchase coming up (" I will keep looking......gotta buy the idsd pro next month first though.")
Like I mentioned before, I'm trying to help. PM me, Fran. Let's talk.


----------



## mikoss

LMAO Bill, you are insufferable!! (The pot calling the kettle black for sure, but hey!)
  
 Fran, were your Amperex PQ's made in the USA?
  
 I'm still waiting on my Telefunken CCa tubes, but I've also been warned that they're probably fakes and just a pair of Telefunken ECC88's... or perhaps used E88CC's... Did you ever get a chance to hear Tele's?
  
 Also, I do believe the Tung Sol 7236 tubes sound more balanced than the GEC 6080's... and you know how much I do love the 6080's upper midrange. But boy... these TS tubes just extend everything out so very far.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> LMAO Bill, you are insufferable!! (The pot calling the kettle black for sure, but hey!)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Mike, I'm WORKING !!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Franatic

*mikoss: *"Fran, were your Amperex PQ's made in the USA?"
  
 My Amperex 6922 PQ white labels were made in Hicksville, NY in the early 1960s. They were my driver tubes for about 3 months...nice mids and bass, slightly warm but with a clean top end. A very musical tube. Not as detailed or transparent as the CCA, but I can see why many people would prefer it.
  
 I certainly want to hold on to them(as well as the GEC 6AS7Gs) as I can see myself rolling them back in at some point.


----------



## billerb1

franatic said:


> *mikoss: *"Fran, were your Amperex PQ's made in the USA?"
> 
> My Amperex 6922 PQ white labels were made in Hicksville, NY in the early 1960s. They were my driver tubes for about 3 months...nice mids and bass, slightly warm but with a clean top end. A very musical tube. Not as detailed or transparent as the CCA, but I can see why many people would prefer it.
> 
> I certainly want to hold on to them(as well as the GEC 6AS7Gs) as I can see myself rolling them back in at some point.


 
  
 Uncle.


----------



## switchride

Picked this up for my Birthday a few weeks ago and I'm loving it so far with my T1's: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171690281023?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Added Siemens E88CC and RFT EZ80's so far. Had orange globes at first but the oranage globes first but the Siemens E88CC were much more pleasant to me when I swapped them in. I was a little shocked how much more I liked them. Still on the hunt for a good deal on the Tung Sol 5998's I keep seeing recommended though.  
  
 One concern I have though is sometimes when I am listening to music it sounds like the power is fading in and out.  Almost like the volume knob is being turned up and down slowly or the power is pulsing in and out in waves.  I am wondering if this could be a tube issue or if is possibly something wrong with the amp itself?  It doesn't always do it but I have noticed it happening a few times over the past weeks and it usually goes away the longer I leave the amp on.


----------



## MIKELAP

switchride said:


> Picked this up for my Birthday a few weeks ago and I'm loving it so far with my T1's: http://www.ebay.com/itm/171690281023?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> Added Siemens E88CC and RFT EZ80's so far. Had orange globes at first but the oranage globes first but the Siemens E88CC were much more pleasant to me when I swapped them in. I was a little shocked how much more I liked them. Still on the hunt for a good deal on the Tung Sol 5998's I keep seeing recommended though.
> 
> One concern I have though is sometimes when I am listening to music it sounds like the power is fading in and out.  Almost like the volume knob is being turned up and down slowly or the power is pulsing in and out in waves.  I am wondering if this could be a tube issue or if is possibly something wrong with the amp itself?  It doesn't always do it but I have noticed it happening a few times over the past weeks and it usually goes away the longer I leave the amp on.


 
 Is it in both channels at same time or 1 channel try switching tubes if you have spare sets see if it happens again  clean pins of your tubes. Everytime i get new tubes i always take a piece of fine sandpaper and sand all the pins . If it happens after that probably the amp .Seller didnt say he had this problem


----------



## mikoss

Hey peeps,
  
 Here's what I've found for my preference with the WA2:
  
 Sennheiser 650's:
 Brimar EZ81 rectifiers + Tung Sol 7236 power tubes + Philips Miniwatt E188CC = as good as the 650's get. (If I had Philips Holland PW 6922, those may beat the E188CC's...)
  
 LCD-3 Fazors:
 Brimar EZ81 rectifiers + Tung Sol 5998 power tubes + Siemens grey CCas = my favourite combo with the WA2 and LCD's so far...
  
  
 Awesomeness. Thanks to @Franatic and @billerb1 and @Dubstep Girl


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Hey peeps,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Congrats on your new baby, Mike, those classy LCD3 Fazors.


----------



## mikoss

In case anyone is on the fence about upgrading their driver tubes... here are some impressions. I gleamed them from using the CCa in my tube buffered DAC.
  
Thoughts on the Siemens grey shield CCa...
  
 - This is without a doubt a high fidelity presentation. It is extremely musical sounding, yet it's a German tube... if you've auditioned other Siemens tubes and found them to be dry, or overly v-shaped in their presentation, this takes the V and fills in the middle. The presentation of this tube will literally send chills through your spine... it is extremely unique in that the soundstage depth/width/imaging/spatial cueing is incredibly full. *Top to bottom, side to side, sonic layering from front to back... the presentation is absolutely involving and engulfing*.
  
 - Mids are much different than the Philips tubes though. They are more tilted towards the upper midrange, (which is a very nice place to tilt them). They remind me of the liquid midrange I hear with old school Mullard tubes... you get the tweed of the guitar, and more of the high-end distortion coming through. The body is not as full or "holographic" sounding as the Amperex house sound (Orange globes, Miniwatts, etc), but it is full of detail... rich, high-mid detail. This tube creates its own holography from top to bottom... but it's not mid-focused like the Amperex tubes.
  
 - Bass is full as well. I have always found the E88CC tubes to sound a bit more bass heavy than their E188CC counterparts, which to me come across for the most part as a tad more refined/elegant. I am not a bass head, but have no major problem with the bass presentation of the CCa. It's plentiful, fulfilling, but for me, a bit exaggerated. This is part of my minor qualm with this tube... the exaggerated bass and tilted mids create a less linear presentation than the E188CC tubes. HOWEVER, for this tube, the bass is definitely part of the experience... the depth of the soundstage is only possible because of the power down below, and up top.
  
 - Speaking of the high end, it has a lot of energy, and it translates very well with HD-650's. I also believe the top-end presentation absolutely contributes to the detail this tube presents... nuances in tonal decay are present throughout every song. I've found personally that picking up on these nuances is only possible with a very select few tubes, and I've never heard them presented so very perfectly as this tube does. *Spatial details I never thought possible are in our music, and I fully believe this tube allows you to hear them unlike any other 6DJ8 tube*.
  
 I've heard other CCa's that are nowhere near knocking my socks off the way this tube has. I especially enjoy it for rock music... I said this about the PW tubes, and I will say it also about this tube; it changes my music in a way that reminds me of vinyl. The music sounds organic, very raw, and surrounding. High fidelity.
  
 Other minor quibbles are:
 -Attack is not as fast as Orange Globes... I find the OG's to sound very precise in their presentation, even if their tone is more rounded off. The tone of the CCa tube is more satisfying at times though, and the decay is superb. They just seem to not have the same initial definition of each note, yet once the notes are there, they linger beautifully.
 -I also find the CCa's to be fatiguing over long sessions. I attribute this to their midrange tilt, and I find it very interesting... I don't really get fatigue from any other tubes with my HD-650's. I am very sensitive to bright headphones, and I guess these tubes just happen to put a bit too much energy into the treble for extended listening sessions. I do find that taking a 5 minute break every once in a while helps. It's not the very top end of the treble either, like I said, it's in the upper mids.
 -Linearity and elegance is not there... I don't want to say they sound muddled up, because that sounds harsh, but they don't have Telefunken-like laser precision, and it's audible. It's not a distraction to me, because *their presentation is just so emotionally involving*, yet it makes me want to go back to E188CC tubes every once in a while. I like refinement, but I really, really love the Siemens grey shield CCa's.
  
@billerb1 in case you are wondering, I still love the PW 6922 and hold it in the top dog spot. (Mostly for the linearity, tonality, body, and absolutely perfect midrange). If it imaged like the CCa, I would die of sonic bliss.


----------



## billerb1

No offense taken Mike.  Great write-up.


----------



## Franatic

Wow Mike, great review! Your knowledge of tubes and your audio-linguistics are very impressive. I am so glad you got to experience the great grey shielded CCAs. A truly extraordinary tube.
  
 My latest passion is for the BUG Head Emperor audio player. It takes playback to a new level.


----------



## Guidostrunk

What a great write up. Might be one of the best I've read. I absolutely agree with your findings, with the CCa.
Glad they worked out for you my friend. 

Cheers


mikoss said:


> In case anyone is on the fence about upgrading their driver tubes... here are some impressions. I gleamed them from using the CCa in my tube buffered DAC.
> 
> Thoughts on the Siemens grey shield CCa...
> 
> ...


----------



## billerb1

Am selling my GEC 6080 NOS pair...only because I just bought a pair of GEC 6AS7G's (thanks to Franatic for his help!)


Here's the link to my posting on the For Sale Forum.  They need a worthy home.  The upper mids and treble are just killer on em. 


Pure liquid goodness.


 


http://www.head-fi.org/t/767962/gec-6080-nos-perfect-pair


 ********** S O L D *********


----------



## devilboy

My brand new WA2 arrived yesterday and I've been in heaven for the past 24 hours. 
  
 NOS tubes:
  
 Mullard EZ80
 Amperex 6dj8
 Tung Sol/Chatham 6AS7G


----------



## switchride

Very nice setup, I need to snag some Tung Sols to finish mine.


----------



## devilboy

switchride said:


> Very nice setup, I need to snag some Tung Sols to finish mine.
> [/quote
> 
> Thanks! I haven't rolled NIS yet, just the ones I bought initially.
> ...


----------



## switchride

Currently using:
  
 GEC 6080
 Siemens E88CC
 RFT EZ80
  
 It sounds pretty fantastic and I got it all for my birthday in March but I am probably going to be listing my setup for sale soon.  Need the cash to pay for new baby bills.  Was nice to be able to see what everyone was always talking about with how much difference a good tube amp makes


----------



## HiFiGuy528

devilboy said:


> My brand new WA2 arrived yesterday and I've been in heaven for the past 24 hours.
> 
> NOS tubes:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats!  It's better than being in heaven because you don't have to die to go there...  
  
 What are those little disks on in the background?


----------



## devilboy

Hello Mike, and thanks!
  
 Those disks are brass weights from Mapleshade Audio.  They are supposed to dampen resonances in the chassis of the equipment.  I had some extra lying around so I put them on. 
  
 I can't wait to get me Exactpower EP 15A back from being repaired (undervalued bias caps were put in right from the beginning).  The WA2 will receive true 120V and 60Hz and I'M THRILLED to hear what the WA2 will sound like then. 
  
 I can't tell you how happy I am with the WA2.  I've been in the loudspeaker "game" for 25 years.  I've been to the shows in NY, Denver and Vegas.  I've heard the mega six-figure loudspeaker systems and I can say without a doubt, that NONE of those systems has given me as much joy as my Sennheiser HD800s with this little Woo WA2.  What I've heard in my new venture into the headphone listening world in the past month has made me happier than ever before.  Thank you Woo Audio.  Music is now fun again.


----------



## OldSkool

devilboy said:


> I can't tell you how happy I am with the WA2.  I've been in the loudspeaker "game" for 25 years.  I've been to the shows in NY, Denver and Vegas.  I've heard the mega six-figure loudspeaker systems and I can say without a doubt, that NONE of those systems has given me as much joy as my Sennheiser HD800s with this little Woo WA2.





My feelings exactly! With upgraded tubes (TS5998, RFT EZ80, Mullard CV2493) I consider the WA2/HD800 setup to be endgame, at least for me.

Tip of the cap to Bill Erb for talking me into buying the WA2 

Cheers, JC


----------



## billerb1

oldskool said:


> My feelings exactly! With upgraded tubes (TS5998, RFT EZ80, Mullard CV2493) I consider the WA2/HD800 setup to be endgame, at least for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Hey JC...hadn't visited this thread for quite awhile. Glad your setup is still treating you right. I'm in the same position with my WA2...but I have switched around my go-to tube setup and really like where I've ended up. So many combinations are great...mine seems to be somewhat of a moving target.
Presently:
GEC 6AS7G's
1956 Pinched Waist Amperex 6922's (first pinched waist version)
Philips Sittard EZ80's

Just an incredibly "beautiful" sound. That's what the GEC's do...they bring beauty in spades. Not as finely detailed as some other combinations I've tried or as 'in-your-face' impactful...but their sound is hypnotic to me. Incredibly engaging and real.
Hope all is well JC.


----------



## devilboy

@billerb1, I have Tungsol/Chatham 6AS7G. Any experience comparing those to the GEC?


----------



## Franatic

Quote 





> Hey JC...hadn't visited this thread for quite awhile. Glad your setup is still treating you right. I'm in the same position with my WA2...but I have switched around my go-to tube setup and really like where I've ended up. So many combinations are great...mine seems to be somewhat of a moving target.
> Presently:
> GEC 6AS7G's
> 1956 Pinched Waist Amperex 6922's (first pinched waist version)
> ...


 
 Hey billerb:
  
 So happy to hear how much you are enjoying that pair of 6AS7Gs that you got at Valve Tubes. 
 I actually got my GEC 6AS7gs back in my amp for a few weeks. They are beautigul and engaging to listen to. They will make their appearance from time to time.
  
 Of course my beloved WE 421As made their way back in. I don't visit this thread so much anymore as I have the WA2 figured out pretty much. My appreciation of this fine little headphone amp/ preamp only grows as my system improves.
  
 My go to tubes and present setup:
 Western Electric 421A - tremendous power and lots of air. Presents a huge soundstage.
 Siemens CCA (grey shield, early 60s) - superb clarity, details and imaging, tight bass, very holographic
 Brimar EZ81 - blacker background and greater depth, especially in the bass
  
 With these tubes, the WA2 is a very high quality component, whether I use it as a preamp for my main system or headphone amp or for the perfectly paired headphone, the Beyerdynamic T1 w/ Forza Noir hybrid cable mod 
  
 Happy listening. I love my Woo WA2. It is sooo awesome


----------



## mikoss

Bill and Fran, did you two Beyer fans hear they are releasing a new T1?
  
 http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/newt1.pdf
  


Spoiler: T1 version 2 Info (translated from the PDF)...



Tesla Technology
  
 The proven Tesla technology gives the T 1 of the 2nd generation high efficiency
 and, in conjunction with a voice coil 600 ohms for a perfect
 Transient response . Compared to its predecessor, the new T 1 shines through a
 stronger and more precise bass reproduction . This gives the sound more
 Substance and ensures a balanced listening experience in a class . By a
 additional damping in the heart of the Tesla driver are disturbing resonances
 eliminated in the treble range . Aiming to provide the ultimate listening experience ,
 the geometry of the baffle structure was fundamentally optimized and the
 ply baffle tissue by a more stable high-tech fabric Compound
 replaced . Thus, a resonance of the tissue is kept to a minimum
 reduced , thus creating an even clearer sound reproduction .
  
 Detachable Cable
  
 To ensure maximum flexibility , the new T1 with a
 pluggable cable ( 3m ) equipped . The both sides supplied connection cable
 has a pleasant textile sheath and leaves by its Head of
 OCC ( Ohno Continuous Casting ) 7N copper hearts audiophile music lovers
 higher schlagen.Das conductor material is a very good
 Transmission quality and is considered the ultimate in high-end range . the
 additional electrical shielding of the cable ensures reliable
 Suppression of electromagnetic Einstreuungen.Für symmetrical use
 can install the connection cable by an identical , optional ,
 Connection cables are replaced with 4-pin XLR connector on the amplifier side .
  
 High wearing comfort

 High-quality materials guarantee even in hours of use
 a unique wearing comfort . The new T 1 comes with fluffy velours
 Ear cushions with hollow fibers which ensure optimum heat regulation . That
 Surface material and the incorporated memory foam ear pads make the
 especially cuddly and provide maximum comfort factor . The headband
 is a very soft and high-quality protein-coated artificial leather
 sheathed , which even after extensive use his Opitsch perfect condition
 preserved .
  
 High-grade hard - carrying case

 A fabric-covered hard-shell carrying case in black allows
 safe and compact storage . Compared to the aluminum box
 old T 1 , the bag features a lightweight, modern design and is
 therefore also ideal for the presentation of the headphones .
  
 Made in Germany

 Just like its predecessor is also the T 1 of the 2nd Generation in careful
 Handcrafted in Germany . High-quality materials and delicate technique
 are in a number of skilled hand movements with attention to detail
 merged. Therefore we offer for our flagship Tesla series continues
 a 5 - year manufacturer's warranty .


----------



## Franatic

Hey Mike
  
 That's great!  I'm just getting my Forza modified T1s completely broke in...and I love them. It will be awhile until new headphones are in the budget. I'm a one headphone guy. It is why I invested in the modification.
  
 Have you seen a projected MSRP and release date on them?  In 2 years when I can get an open-box half price deal, they will be mine.


----------



## billerb1

mikoss said:


> Bill and Fran, did you two Beyer fans hear they are releasing a new T1?
> 
> http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/newt1.pdf
> 
> ...


 
  
 I figured something would be coming soon.  I've been putting a little aside in anticipation.  Read anything else ?  I hope it's not at the HE1000 price point or even anything near it.
  
 Fran good to hear from you.  There were some deals on 421a's on Ebay this past week.  I almost jumped in...but pulled up short.  Gutless.
 Thanks again for trying to help my apparently helpless ASSSSSSSSSS  to get that Bug Head player up  on my computer.


----------



## Franatic

Bill,
 You're not talking about those 3 WE 421As that someone got for the great price of $355. Hummm, who could that have been. Well that someone will need no more of those.


----------



## ru4music

franatic said:


> Bill,
> You're not talking about those 3 WE 421As that someone got for the great price of $355. Hummm, who could that have been. Well that someone will need no more of those.


 

 Fran (and others), do the WE 421A tubes greatly outshine the TS5998s?  Are you running a WA2 with the (no longer available) Woo parts upgrade pkg.? 
 Having a similar setup, WA2 (TS 5998, Amperex/Holland PQ, Brimar EZ80) (HD800 and T1s both with UPOCC copper cable upgrades) I am curious as to what improvement the WE 421As can make (i.e. is it really worth the cost?)


----------



## Franatic

The differences of the 421A vs the 5998 have been debated. Many experienced audiophiles feel there are not discernible differences. I am not one of them. I have found the 421A to be a much superior tube. Although many aspects of the sound profile were similar, the 421A has qualities not possessed by the 5998.
  
 The 421A pumps air into the system and inflates the soundstage. Everything gets lifted and separated. The transparency, imaging and details all improve in my system. When combined with the Siemens CCA, I find the presentation and sound quality breathtaking.


----------



## Puzzles

> Originally Posted by *ru4music* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [...]
> Having a similar setup, WA2 (TS 5998, Amperex/Holland PQ, Brimar EZ80) (HD800 and T1s both with UPOCC copper cable upgrades) I am curious as to what improvement the WE 421As can make (i.e. is it really worth the cost?)


 
  
 The thing is, when getting the 421A, the WA2's price/performance ratio drops significantly, like down to hell through the earth core and further, bursting through the other side, thereby picking up Australia and shooting it towards Jupiter (or wherever it would end up out there).
 Listen to the 5998 and ask yourself whether you feel you're missing some air, soundstage, transparency, or whatever. And do you wanna spend another $400-600 to improve upon it? More importantly, before considering to kick 20 million people into nowhere, you might wanna look whether you can upgrade to another tube amp that makes a marked step forward by itself, without requiring terribly expensive tubes to get there. Or simply stick with the 5998.


----------



## Franatic

Exactly as Puzzles stated it becomes a value judgement and about price/performance. I also use the preamp function so the tube quality has double importance to me. Will I spend the additional money to max-out the Woo with the best tubes or live with it with good tubes or sell it off and upgrade to a different amp? I decided to max out the Woo AND upgrade my T1s. I am committed to the WA2 and T1s long term and thrilled with the SQ++ they are giving me. One amp, one pair of headphones for me.
 I definitely understand those who feel differently on this subject.
 There are also those who prefer the GEC 6AS7G to the 421A. The price is about the same. I've tried them both and prefer the 421A.
  
 P S - last week I was able to get 3 WE 421As for $355. If you are patient and keep watch on ebay, occasionally you can get lucky and find a deal.


----------



## Krutsch

franatic said:


> *Exactly as Puzzles stated it becomes a value judgement and about price/performance*. I also use the preamp function so the tube quality has double importance to me. Will I spend the additional money to max-out the Woo with the best tubes or live with it with good tubes or sell it off and upgrade to a different amp? I decided to max out the Woo AND upgrade my T1s. I am committed to the WA2 and T1s long term and thrilled with the SQ++ they are giving me. One amp, one pair of headphones for me.
> I definitely understand those who feel differently on this subject.
> 
> *There are also those who prefer the GEC 6AS7G to the 421A. The price is about the same. I've tried them both and prefer the 421A.*
> ...


 
  
 Agreed. Many believe these are identical to the TS 5998; of this, I respectfully disagree. IMO, the Westys combine the best of the TS 7236 and the TS 5998 - that is, there is good bass and oomph, but with less bloom (i.e. less bleed of lower frequencies into the lower mids). The speed is good (not as great as the 7236, IMO), but what really separate the Westys from the pack is the clear, warm tonality. I do agree with you, however, on the "air" comment - that's a good description of the sound.
  
 Seriously, with this glass, I can listen all night and lose track of the time.
  
 I have a pair of GEC "Brown Base" GAS7g tubes in-bound from eBay, so I am eager to make my own comparison with the 5 bottles I have in my collection:


----------



## ru4music

franatic said:


> The differences of the 421A vs the 5998 have been debated. Many experienced audiophiles feel there are not discernible differences. I am not one of them. I have found the 421A to be a much superior tube. Although many aspects of the sound profile were similar, the 421A has qualities not possessed by the 5998.
> 
> The 421A pumps air into the system and inflates the soundstage. Everything gets lifted and separated. The transparency, imaging and details all improve in my system. When combined with the Siemens CCA, I find the presentation and sound quality breathtaking.


 

 Yes, I have been following the debate for quite some time now.  My system is getting tuned/tweaked to a level which will bring out the subtle nuances and present them dramatically in the listing experience; I think your system is there too, which is why I appreciate the feedback.
  
 To your point, what I find interesting is that a very nice and well respected poster here on head-fi couldn't discern any difference when comparing WE 421As to 5998s on their WA2.  However, they preferred to keep their T1s with the stock cable and I (for one) couldn't/ can't begin to appreciate the T1s without the use of a updated UP-OCC copper cable.  They also felt the GEC 6as7G was as "good as it gets" and you clearly prefer the 421As between the two.
  
 I'll also check into the Siemens CCAs as this is a path I haven't been down yet, but I believe my Amperex (Holland) PQs are in with some of the best.


----------



## ru4music

puzzles said:


> The thing is, when getting the 421A, the WA2's price/performance ratio drops significantly, like down to hell through the earth core and further, bursting through the other side, thereby picking up Australia and shooting it towards Jupiter (or wherever it would end up out there).
> Listen to the 5998 and ask yourself whether you feel you're missing some air, soundstage, transparency, or whatever. And do you wanna spend another $400-600 to improve upon it? More importantly, before considering to kick 20 million people into nowhere, you might wanna look whether you can upgrade to another tube amp that makes a marked step forward by itself, without requiring terribly expensive tubes to get there. Or simply stick with the 5998.


 

 Yes, unfortunately, that dilemma will follow a person no matter what platform they move to.
  
 To be honest, my system is getting to a point where my source material selection (i.e quality; sound engineering and production of artists recordings) will have the biggest impact on SQ.  There's quite a delta/ difference in the quality of recordings, it's not necessarily based on whether it's CD redbook or higher sampling DSD formats; a bad recording is still bad etc.


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> Agreed. Many believe these are identical to the TS 5998; of this, I respectfully disagree. IMO, the Westys combine the best of the TS 7236 and the TS 5998 - that is, there is good bass and oomph, but with less bloom (i.e. less bleed of lower frequencies into the lower mids). The speed is good (not as great as the 7236, IMO), but what really separate the Westys from the pack is the clear, warm tonality. I do agree with you, however, on the "air" comment - that's a good description of the sound.
> 
> Seriously, with this glass, I can listen all night and lose track of the time.
> 
> I have a pair of GEC "Brown Base" GAS7g tubes in-bound from eBay, so I am eager to make my own comparison with the 5 bottles I have in my collection:


 

 Thanks, I'll put another mark up for the WEs.
  
 Please post your opinions on the GECs vs. WEs vs.5998s, I would be very interested on your thoughts.
  
 I did purchase a pair of GEC 6as7g "brown straight base" a while back and got to audition them in the WA2.  I really liked the warm sound signature and would have kept them if not for one of the tube's triodes being bad (which was hard to hear, but clearly indicated on my tube tester.)  From my audition I haven't been able to justify another purchase given the price point.


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> Thanks, I'll put another mark up for the WEs.
> 
> Please post your opinions on the GECs vs. WEs vs.5998s, I would be very interested on your thoughts.
> 
> I did purchase a pair of GEC 6as7g "brown straight base" a while back and got to audition them in the WA2.  I really liked the warm sound signature and would have kept them if not for one of the tube's triodes being bad (which was hard to hear, but clearly indicated on my tube tester.)  From my audition I haven't been able to justify another purchase given the price point.


 
  
 For sure, I will do the best I can with my WA3. I am collecting rectifiers for an anticipated purchase of a WA2, this fall, but I was side-tracked on purchasing source components and I've spent a ton of $$$ on music.
  
 I am anticipating subtle differences... To be honest, the WEs sound different from everything else I have: TS 5998s (I have a collection of these, as well), TS 6520 (which I also like) and TS 6AS7g (which sound different from my RCA version of the same tube).
  
 Tube comparisons are difficult and time-consuming, for me anyway, but I am looking forward to the effort 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 EDIT: I will likely do all of my comparisons with the Telefunken E288CC (which are re-branded Siemens E288CC from the early '60s) - incredible driver tubes for clarity and air; they really bring out the differences in power tubes.


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> For sure, I will do the best I can with my WA3. I am collecting rectifiers for an anticipated purchase of a WA2, this fall, but I was side-tracked on purchasing source components and I've spent a ton of $$$ on music.
> 
> I am anticipating subtle differences... To be honest, the WEs sound different from everything else I have: TS 5998s (I have a collection of these, as well), TS 6520 (which I also like) and TS 6AS7g (which sound different from my RCA version of the same tube).
> 
> ...


 

 That's cool, I had a WA3/ HD650 combo for several years before moving up to the WA2 so I'm somewhat accustomed to the differences in sound signature.


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> That's cool, *I had a WA3/ HD650 combo for several years before moving up to the WA2 *so I'm somewhat accustomed to the differences in sound signature.


 
  
 I am anticipating a significant jump in SQ. Is that what you experienced?


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> I am anticipating a significant jump in SQ. Is that what you experienced?


 

 With your glass collection it should be.  The WA2 will give you more of the good things that you have in the WA3.  You may want to consider the Senn. HD800 down the road to pull out all the extra detail.


----------



## Franatic

krutsch said:


> I am anticipating a significant jump in SQ. Is that what you experienced?


 
 Krutsch, with your WE 421As, you are starting way ahead of the game. I have never heard the Tele E288CC, They have a good reputation but I shied away from them due to their high filament current. They should be fine in the WA2 though. I wonder how they compare to the CCA. Probably pretty close.
  
 Beyerdynamic is coming out with the T1 V2, you might want to look at that. I love my Forza cable upgraded T1s and believe they are a perfect match for the WA2.
  
 Good luck with your WA2. I look forward to your impressions. The WA2 is the only tube amp I've had......don't see a need for another.


----------



## Krutsch

ru4music said:


> With your glass collection it should be.  The WA2 will give you more of the good things that you have in the WA3.  You may want to consider the Senn. HD800 down the road to pull out all the extra detail.


 

 Sounds like good advice... I am also considering the new Beyer T1 (depending on the reviews).


----------



## zeroduke

Last week I received my WA2.  The valves included are GE JAN 6080 WC, Philips JAN 6922 and EH 6CA4.  With that configuration it sounds  better than my previous SS preamp.  I had decided to complete the break-in stage with the valves provided until a friend donated the Philips E188CC SQ (Heerlen) and Tesla EZ81.  So, with these changes I will complete the break-in before trying further changes.  HD800 was used to analize the changes because of the analytical profile of the headphones.  But listening music for 45 minutes plus, once again, I prefer Beyerdynamic T1.  Another HP who improved a lot is the HD650, which allowed very long runs with no trace of fatigue.


----------



## Krutsch

zeroduke said:


> Last week I received my WA2.  The valves included are GE JAN 6080 WC, Philips JAN 6922 and EH 6CA4.  With that configuration it sounds  better than my previous SS preamp.  I had decided to complete the break-in stage with the valves provided until a friend donated the Philips E188CC SQ (Heerlen) and Tesla EZ81.  So, with these changes I will complete the break-in before trying further changes.  HD800 was used to analize the changes because of the analytical profile of the headphones.  But listening music for 45 minutes plus, once again, I prefer Beyerdynamic T1.  *Another HP who improved a lot is the HD650, which allowed very long runs with no trace of fatigue.*


 
  
 I have noticed this with the WA3 ... I can listen with the HD-650s all night without fatigue; no other headphone + amp combination does that for me.


----------



## Krutsch

franatic said:


> Krutsch, with your WE 421As, you are starting way ahead of the game. *I have never heard the Tele E288CC*, They have a good reputation but I shied away from them due to their high filament current. They should be fine in the WA2 though. *I wonder how they compare to the CCA.* Probably pretty close.


 
  
 They are very similar, but one of my Siemens CCa tubes exhibits a slight hum, so it's hard for me to compare. The Tele E288CC is really a Siemens tube that was re-branded/sold as a Telefunken in the early '60s. It's my current favorite tube, but the Telefunken E188CC is a close second.


----------



## ru4music

zeroduke said:


> Last week I received my WA2.  The valves included are GE JAN 6080 WC, Philips JAN 6922 and EH 6CA4.  With that configuration it sounds  better than my previous SS preamp.  I had decided to complete the break-in stage with the valves provided until a friend donated the Philips E188CC SQ (Heerlen) and Tesla EZ81.  So, with these changes I will complete the break-in before trying further changes.  HD800 was used to analize the changes because of the analytical profile of the headphones.  But listening music for 45 minutes plus, once again, I prefer Beyerdynamic T1.  Another HP who improved a lot is the HD650, which allowed very long runs with no trace of fatigue.


 

 Yes, the HD650 is very smooth and mesmerizing with its presentation and has a synergy with the WA3/ WA2 combo.  I also was up many a late night listening to my WA3.
  
 Let your amp break-in (at least 100 hours) and then consider upgrading the 6080 to a 5998 or similar tube.  Your Philips E188CC SQ should perform very well and your Tesla EZ81 (if of the original/ old Tesla brand) should do well also.
  
 The HD800 is an incredible hp that will present superb detail and imaging from good/ great recordings and also expose the flaws on lessor production efforts.  The T-1 provides a good balance overall and good detail with a  smaller image presentation and helps to subdue recording/ production flaws.  The HD650 is more laid back and seems to resonate the music while receding recording flaws deeper into the presentation background.
  
 My main (go-to) hp is the hd800 95% of the time, then the T-1, and then the HD650 (although I really haven't used this hp much on the WA2.)
  
 Enjoy and keep us posted!


----------



## zeroduke

ru4music said:


> Let your amp break-in (at least 100 hours) and then consider upgrading the 6080 to a 5998 or similar tube.  Your Philips E188CC SQ should perform very well and your Tesla EZ81 (if of the original/ old Tesla brand) should do well also.


 
 Thanks of the advice.  This week-end I had a very long run with the WA2.  And, despite my previous decision I rolled back to Philips JAN 6922 I received with the amp.   The Philips E188CC SQ is excellent.  More clarity in upper midrange and high frequencies definition but loses in midrange/low midrange. It turns the sound towards SS.  For SS I've got Accuphase, what I pretend here is a more warm "valve" sound.  The 6922 achieves that. So, I will follow your advice and complete the 100 hours break in but with the Philips provided by Woo (+1 to Woo).  Then, I will give consideration to changes.
  
 The EZ81 is an old Tesla made in Czechoslovakia.  I'll keep that because there was a good improvement in definition without changing the sound I want.
  
 By the way, rolling back to 6922 improved the sound delivered by HD800, according to my taste.
  
 A question:  what would give the 5988 over the 6080 in WA2?


----------



## ru4music

zeroduke said:


> Thanks of the advice.  This week-end I had a very long run with the WA2.  And, despite my previous decision I rolled back to Philips JAN 6922 I received with the amp.   The Philips E188CC SQ is excellent.  More clarity in upper midrange and high frequencies definition but loses in midrange/low midrange. It turns the sound towards SS.  For SS I've got Accuphase, what I pretend here is a more warm "valve" sound.  The 6922 achieves that. So, I will follow your advice and complete the 100 hours break in but with the Philips provided by Woo (+1 to Woo).  Then, I will give consideration to changes.
> 
> The EZ81 is an old Tesla made in Czechoslovakia.  I'll keep that because there was a good improvement in definition without changing the sound I want.
> 
> ...


 

 What I find with a coke-bottle Tung Sol 5998 (domino plates) is: better focus/ detail on the soundstage/ imaging, higher resolution of timbre, tighter and refined bass, greater separation and layering of the music.  While different 6080s and small bottle 5998s can exhibit some of these characteristic I find the TS 5998 pulls all of them together.  The TS 5998 can be described as having more of a refined sound and the 6080 can lean towards that generalized tubey warmth (though not necessarily euphonically speaking.)
  
 I believe you'll find that your taste in presentation on the WA2 will expand with more exposure and tube rolling.  Remember, we all don't hear exactly alike and have different taste and system components, so enjoy the journey!
  
 BTW, I am running Amperex/ Heerlen white label 6922 PQs, Brimar EZ80s for my subjective description above.


----------



## zeroduke

Thank you  for your comments, ry4music.  They are much appreciated.


----------



## thecrow

Wa2 black or white?

Looking to enter the world of tube amps (wa2) in the near future. Whilst I'm trying to get my head around the tube rolling kind of world and what tubes are all about, options and stuff (thus will do my head in) I must stop and ask what colour works well. 

My desk does have mostly black and silver on it - iMac, monitors, external hard drives so either will be fine.

Now the black looks good for evening listening and viewing and it really won't matter BUT ........any feelings on these options? Any regrets on previous choices?

I'll come back with noob tube questions later


----------



## devilboy

thecrow said:


> Wa2 black or white?
> 
> Looking to enter the world of tube amps (wa2) in the near future. Whilst I'm trying to get my head around the tube rolling kind of world and what tubes are all about, options and stuff (thus will do my head in) I must stop and ask what colour works well.
> 
> ...


I think you meant black or silver.


----------



## Krutsch

devilboy said:


> I think you meant black or silver.


 
  
 Silver... the way to go, without a doubt.


----------



## thecrow

devilboy said:


> I think you meant black or silver.


Exactly.


----------



## devilboy

Picture was small cuz it was sent from my phone.  Here's a bigger one.  Black looks cool too.  I saw a few pics in black and the contrast with the orange glow of the tubes looked awesome.  However, silver just has a touch of class that I love.


----------



## thecrow

That's why I asked. I saw those black and orange pics too. 

And then there's the silver. 

I feel there's almost something missing under both colour options to dazzle me.

It's no biggie but it's more like neither is grabbing me 100% so I'm swaying between the two. 

On the other hand my iPhone's black and my iPads white and there was some sort of "internal rationale" in choosing those but with the wa2 I can't make "sense" of this


----------



## MIKELAP

thecrow said:


> That's why I asked. I saw those black and orange pics too.
> 
> And then there's the silver.
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe a little color on the letters


----------



## thecrow

mikelap said:


> Maybe a little color on the letters


I like the idea of getting two Amps. And having the contrast. 

At least that will make tube rolling cheap. 

Oh hang on......I'll have to do twice as much. 

Back to my tube research. 

(In the back of my mind the black choice is winning at the moment)


----------



## devilboy

mikelap said:


> Maybe a little color on the letters


Very cool.


----------



## devilboy

That wasn't an option. 
Please tell me that wasn't an option.


----------



## zeroduke

Hi.  Which is the advantage of running WA2 using 6sn7 instead of 6dj8/6922?


----------



## MIKELAP

devilboy said:


> That wasn't an option.
> Please tell me that wasn't an option.


 

 No option just adapters


----------



## devilboy

mikelap said:


> No option just adapters


adapters? Just so we're clear, I was referring to the lettering.


----------



## MIKELAP

devilboy said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > No option just adapters
> ...


 

 No not an option .I basically just filled up the letters with paint and remove the excess paint with a scottowel


----------



## devilboy

mikelap said:


> No not an option .I basically just filled up the letters with paint and remove the excess paint with a scottowel


Hmmmm..........


----------



## HeatFan12

mikelap said:


> No not an option .I basically just filled up the letters with paint and remove the excess paint with a scottowel


 
  
  
 Looks great Mike....If I try that on my black one, it would probably look like a dalmatian after I'm done...


----------



## MIKELAP

Anybody ever try 6H30Pi tubes as drivers in there WA2 Woo says there's no problem using these tubes but i get a buzz in the left channel its like when i use Russian power tubes in the WA22 they buzz and in the WA2 they sound fine .got 2 pairs of these tubes tried 3 different ones in left channel and they all buzz.                                                                                                                             .


----------



## HeatFan12

mikelap said:


> Anybody ever try 6H30Pi tubes as drivers in there WA2 Woo says there's no problem using these tubes but i get a buzz in the left channel its like when i use Russian power tubes in the WA22 they buzz and in the WA2 they sound fine .got 2 pairs of these tubes tried 3 different ones in left channel and they all buzz.


 
  
  
 Those are the stock power tubes for the MKIVSE correct?  No adapter needed for the WA2?
  
 I will try them now and let you know...Will post in the WA2 tube rolling thread.  I have been rolling some other nice ones as well...


----------



## MIKELAP

heatfan12 said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody ever try 6H30Pi tubes as drivers in there WA2 Woo says there's no problem using these tubes but i get a buzz in the left channel its like when i use Russian power tubes in the WA22 they buzz and in the WA2 they sound fine .got 2 pairs of these tubes tried 3 different ones in left channel and they all buzz.
> ...


 

 Yes they are  plug and play according to Woo in the WA2 great. Thanks.   Here's what Michael Liang said


----------



## HeatFan12

Tried them....Incoming on the WA2 rolling thread Mike


----------



## Franatic

I just posted my impressions of the incredible 6N23P 1975 Reflektor single wire getter post on the WA2 tube rolling thread. It seems to be getting renewed activity lately 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/393811/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations/480#post_11877440


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> Maybe a little color on the letters


 
 Mike, do you know if anyone (including yourself) has come up with a C3g adapter scenario for the WA2 yet?


----------



## MIKELAP

ru4music said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe a little color on the letters
> ...


 
 I ask Glenn about that last week didnt know to much about the WA2 he was checking it out didnt get an answer yet ,but he told me its not possible with WA6 and WA22 though


----------



## ru4music

mikelap said:


> I ask Glenn about that last week didnt know to much about the WA2 he was checking it out didnt get an answer yet ,but he told me its not possible with WA6 and WA22 though


 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## thecrow

Black Wa2 incoming!!!!!

Didn't take long for me to go from deciding I want one to forking out for one. 

That's what I get for having this as my lock screen:


----------



## thecrow

By the way have been spending the last week sussing out tube prefs and sites - any experience with tube world express?

Ta


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> Black Wa2 incoming!!!!!
> 
> Didn't take long for me to go from deciding I want one to forking out for one.
> 
> That's what I get for having this as my lock screen:


 

 Welcome to the party!


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> By the way have been spending the kart week Sydenham out tube prefs and sites - any experience with tube world express?
> 
> Ta


 

 Never have used them (yet!)


----------



## devilboy

ru4music said:


> Welcome to the party!


One Really can't go wrong with either finish. I was on the fence a bit too. 
Black looks cool as s@#$.
Welcom aboard!


----------



## ZoNtO

Hey guys, is there still a remote control option for the WA2?

Considering for headphone and preamp duties, but would be cumbersome without remote.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/319977/woo-audio-wa2-with-a-remote-control


----------



## ru4music

zonto said:


> Hey guys, is there still a remote control option for the WA2?
> 
> Considering for headphone and preamp duties, but would be cumbersome without remote.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/319977/woo-audio-wa2-with-a-remote-control


 

 No remote option that I'm aware of.  The WA2 can be good for a pre-amp, but with premium tubes (e.g. Brimar EZ80, WE 421A, Amperex 6922 drivers etc.)  Buy it as a Headphone amp with a secondary as a preamp,  if so inclined.  (My 2 cents!)  YMMV


----------



## HiFiGuy528

zonto said:


> Hey guys, is there still a remote control option for the WA2?
> 
> Considering for headphone and preamp duties, but would be cumbersome without remote.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/319977/woo-audio-wa2-with-a-remote-control


 
 design priorities are as follows: the sound, the sound, reliability, features, convenience. In that order. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Please consider our WDS-1 Reference DAC with optional remote for variable outputs.
  
 http://wooaudio.com/products/wds1.html


----------



## thecrow

General and very broad question: any tips on dac selection for the wa2/hd800 combo?

There doesn't appear to be much dac conversation in wa2 threads


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> General and very broad question: any tips on dac selection for the wa2/hd800 combo?
> 
> There doesn't appear to be much dac conversation in wa2 threads


 

 I've had a very good experience with the Matrix X-Sabre DAC with my WA2/ HD800 combo.  This DAC has never been a (perceivable) limiting factor in my system.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650686/matrix-x-sabre-dac-review-and-impression-thread/1170


----------



## thecrow

ru4music said:


> I've had a very good experience with the Matrix X-Sabre DAC with my WA2/ HD800 combo.  This DAC has never been a (perceivable) limiting factor in my system.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/650686/matrix-x-sabre-dac-review-and-impression-thread/1170


thanks for that post. I was looking at that dac a couple of months ago. 

I currently have an irdac which paired up with my soloist really well. My wa2 is arriving this week so I'll be able to sus out where to go with a new dac, if needed, from there. 

The irdac is essentially a little warm, lush mids and a little rolled off at either end. 

I think the X sabre would be more neutral and a little more clarity


----------



## cant beat BEATS

I've had the WA2 for about 5 years now, mainly with Senn HD650s. Ive always been using the TS 5998s as I've always read that these were the best outside of the GECs. I just recently got a pair or TS 7236s,and to my surprise, I found the 7236s to be much more musical and enjoyable than the 5998s. To me the 5998s sound kind of dry, mechanical and boring in comparison to the more musical TS 7236s. Am I alone in feeling this way?


----------



## devilboy

I have the 2/800 combo but have only listened with a Metrum Octave DAC. I wanted to get away from the slightly bright sound I was getting with the Burson Virtuoso so I fired up the old Metrum again and its natural tone is a nice fit for the 800. 
Wish I had more info. Sorry.


----------



## thecrow

devilboy said:


> I have the 2/800 combo but have only listened with a Metrum Octave DAC. I wanted to get away from the slightly bright sound I was getting with the Burson Virtuoso so I fired up the old Metrum again and its natural tone is a nice fit for the 800.
> Wish I had more info. Sorry.


I had a quick listen to the octave. I certainly found it on the warmer side. 

It will certainly be in the mix if I look for a new dac. Main concerns I had for it was if it was open enough (compared to other options) in details/soundstage and if the octave/wa2 will prove a little too warm. 

I'll use my irdac as a guide to where i might want to take it once my amp and tubes arrive over next couple of weeks.


----------



## walls

I have a matched pair of Tung sol 5998's I was thinking of letting go. If interested pm me.


----------



## walls




----------



## ru4music

cant beat beats said:


> I've had the WA2 for about 5 years now, mainly with Senn HD650s. Ive always been using the TS 5998s as I've always read that these were the best outside of the GECs. I just recently got a pair or TS 7236s,and to my surprise, I found the 7236s to be much more musical and enjoyable than the 5998s. To me the 5998s sound kind of dry, mechanical and boring in comparison to the more musical TS 7236s. Am I alone in feeling this way?


 

 I could see where the HD650's may lean towards the TS 7236.  What driver and rectifier tubes are you using?  I have not tried the TS 7236, but the 5998/ `74 6N23P Reflektor paired with the HD800 is superb.


----------



## cant beat BEATS

ru4music said:


> I could see where the HD650's may lean towards the TS 7236.  What driver and rectifier tubes are you using?  I have not tried the TS 7236, but the 5998/ `74 6N23P Reflektor paired with the HD800 is superb.




Rectifiers are Mullard EZ80
Drivers are Amperex 7308 and Orange Globe 6DJ8s. Trying to get those Siemens CCa's


----------



## StanT

cant beat beats said:


> I've had the WA2 for about 5 years now, mainly with Senn HD650s. Ive always been using the TS 5998s as I've always read that these were the best outside of the GECs. I just recently got a pair or TS 7236s,and to my surprise, I found the 7236s to be much more musical and enjoyable than the 5998s. To me the 5998s sound kind of dry, mechanical and boring in comparison to the more musical TS 7236s. Am I alone in feeling this way?


 
 Nope,
  
 I prefer the TS 7236 with my 650s, as well. I prefer 5998s with my T1s.


----------



## ru4music

cant beat beats said:


> Rectifiers are Mullard EZ80
> Drivers are Amperex 7308 and Orange Globe 6DJ8s. Trying to get those Siemens CCa's


 

 My personal recommendation would be to hold off on the Siemens CCa(s) and look for a good pair of Russian  `74 or `75 (single wire getter post) (silver shield) 6N23P Reflektor(s).  They are honestly that good (I'm not kidding!!!)
  

  
  
 IMHO, the CCa(s) deserve their reputation but are a lessor tube compared to the above referenced Reflektor, which can be had for less money.  Please use caution if sourcing the 6N23P(s) as they're scarce enough not to be available from premium ($/ reputable) tube dealers and generally need to be acquired by auction sites.


----------



## jhljhl

stant said:


> Nope,
> 
> I prefer the TS 7236 with my 650s, as well. I prefer 5998s with my T1s.


 

 The hd650 can be a little dark.  I think the 7236 makes them sound like hifi ss stereo meaning the ts 5998 can bring typical tube warmth - the ts 7236 are more "strident" less "bloom" to me.  I like them for a faster sound.


----------



## Krutsch

jhljhl said:


> The hd650 can be a little dark.  I think the *7236 makes them sound like hifi ss stereo meaning the ts 5998 can bring typical tube warmth - the ts 7236 are more "strident" less "bloom" to me*.  I like them for a faster sound.


 
  
 You are right-on with that description. The TS 7236 is an awesome match with the HD-650; I find the TS 5998 too bloomy with the HD-650.
  
 If you are willing to throw your money away, try to find a Western Electric 421a ... it's the perfect compromise between those tubes with a tonal quality that stands alone.


----------



## ru4music

krutsch said:


> You are right-on with that description. The TS 7236 is an awesome match with the HD-650; I find the *TS 5998 too bloomy with the HD-650*.
> 
> If you are willing to throw your money away, try to find a Western Electric 421a ... it's the perfect compromise between those tubes with a tonal quality that stands alone.


 
 It's been a while since I listened to the hd650 on the wa2.  I'll need to test them out with the TS 5998/ 6N23P tube combo.


----------



## jhljhl

krutsch said:


> You are right-on with that description. The TS 7236 is an awesome match with the HD-650; I find the TS 5998 too bloomy with the HD-650.
> 
> If you are willing to throw your money away, try to find a Western Electric 421a ... it's the perfect compromise between those tubes with a tonal quality that stands alone.


 

 Actually I was using 421a tubes I misspoke.  But I said they have more warmth though not too much for me even with the hd650.


----------



## ardilla

Ahh - got the WA2 out from its shameful storagein a closet, fired it up and plugged in the HD800. What a bliss. I love this amp!


----------



## thecrow

A dac question again....

Whilst still waiting on my wa2 to arrive I've found a good price on a cas192d questyle dac. As I understand it's a dac with great detail and clarity but quite neutral. 

Has anybody had any experience with this dac?

I had a suggestion 2 pages back that the X sabre has worked well for another member but how do you think these very much neutral dacs would go with the wa2 when used with hd800s?

Should I instead look for a dac with some more warmth as well as detail that I seek?

( I understand a lot of this is up to personal taste)

Thanks


----------



## ardilla

thecrow said:


> A dac question again....
> 
> Whilst still waiting on my wa2 to arrive I've found a good price on a cas192d questyle dac. As I understand it's a dac with great detail and clarity but quite neutral.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So - what is your personal taste?


----------



## thecrow

ardilla said:


> So - what is your personal taste?


Good reference point is steely Dan. 

Loosely speaking contemporary rock from the 70s onwards. Peter Gabriel, frank Zappa, led Zeppelin, sting, Tom petty. 

Some rock/blues as well. 

Vocals, guitars, piano is important.


----------



## ardilla

thecrow said:


> Good reference point is steely Dan.
> 
> Loosely speaking contemporary rock from the 70s onwards. Peter Gabriel, frank Zappa, led Zeppelin, sting, Tom petty.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So - am I understanding you correctly if I think you say is you might want a colored/mid-centric DAC? 
  
 I haven't heard the Questyle, but tend to find most modern DACs to sound quite similar with regrades to sound signature - because - relatively speaking - they are all trying to be neutral. They vary mostly on detail retrieval and speed in the different frequency areas,but they mostly have a quite similar tonal balance. 
  
 FWIW - I guess what I am saying is that it is more effective to roll tubes, amps or headphones than a dac if the objective is to alter the sound signature. I'd say - if you have a great deal on a great dac with a neutral sound signature - get it and spend your efforts rolling tubes instead of dacs


----------



## thecrow

ardilla said:


> So - am I understanding you correctly if I think you say is you might want a colored/mid-centric DAC?
> 
> I haven't heard the Questyle, but tend to find most modern DACs to sound quite similar with regrades to sound signature - because - relatively speaking - they are all trying to be neutral. They vary mostly on detail retrieval and speed in the different frequency areas,but they mostly have a quite similar tonal balance.
> 
> FWIW - I guess what I am saying is that it is more effective to roll tubes, amps or headphones than a dac if the objective is to alter the sound signature. I'd say - if you have a great deal on a great dac with a neutral sound signature - get it and spend your efforts rolling tubes instead of dacs


I guess thats the crux of my question. What's a good way to approach things as a general rule? Let the amp and tubes bring flavour and have the dac bring the detail?

I currently have the irdac which I really like with my soloist. Lush forward mids but a little rolled off on both ends. I was thinking would a better detailed dac, neutral, transparent and open work well or is that maybe leaving too much "work" to the amp and tubes? (And HPs - my hd800). Should I look for a dac that works in the "seasoning" I look for - a little weight in the mids, etc?


----------



## cant beat BEATS

ru4music said:


> My personal recommendation would be to hold off on the Siemens CCa(s) and look for a good pair of Russian  `74 or `75 (single wire getter post) (silver shield) 6N23P Reflektor(s).  They are honestly that good (I'm not kidding!!!)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The only 6N23P that is good is the single wire getter? Are the other getter types any good? What's the word in the forums?


----------



## ardilla

thecrow said:


> I guess thats the crux of my question. What's a good way to approach things as a general rule? *Let the amp and tubes bring flavour and have the dac bring the detail?*
> 
> I currently have the irdac which I really like with my soloist. Lush forward mids but a little rolled off on both ends. I was thinking would a better detailed dac, neutral, transparent and open work well or is that maybe leaving too much "work" to the amp and tubes? (And HPs - my hd800). Should I look for a dac that works in the "seasoning" I look for - a little weight in the mids, etc?


 
  
 That's what I think. It is hard to predict the perfect synergy with dac's. Also, the variation in sound signature is more relevant in less expensive dacs in my experience.


----------



## ru4music

cant beat beats said:


> The only 6N23P that is good is the single wire getter? Are the other getter types any good? What's the word in the forums?


 

 Yes, the best are the `75 then the `74 (SWGP, silver shield/ gray plate) 6N23P Reflektors. Other getter types and years can be good but not near as good as the afore mentioned tubes.  There is a thread on HF reviewing some of the best-of-the-best 6DJ8 tubes covering these 6N23P types from a fellow contributor; I will post that info here when I locate it.
  
 Eg: http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-Matched-QUAD-REFLEKTOR-SingleWire-SilverShield-74-1-/171957213838?hash=item280972da8e


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> I guess thats the crux of my question. What's a good way to approach things as a general rule? Let the amp and tubes bring flavour and have the dac bring the detail?
> 
> I currently have the irdac which I really like with my soloist. Lush forward mids but a little rolled off on both ends. I was thinking would a better detailed dac, neutral, transparent and open work well or is that maybe leaving too much "work" to the amp and tubes? (And HPs - my hd800). Should I look for a dac that works in the "seasoning" I look for - a little weight in the mids, etc?


 

 For a DAC you absolutely want highly resolving and detailed (with a sense of musicality) on the top of your list of wants.  Remember, nothing can bring those sonic attributes back if they're not there originally.


----------



## thecrow

ru4music said:


> For a DAC you absolutely want highly resolving and detailed (with a sense of musicality) on the top of your list of wants.  Remember, nothing can bring those sonic attributes back if they're not there originally.


thats the angle I've been working on. 

But my research and guidance I'm receiving from my local woo stockist (who I've ordered the wa2 through and who's selling the dac) is suggesting, even though the cas192d is a more detailed dac, I'm better off sticking with my irdac (at this point) as I'd probably be better with a detailed dac with a little warmth. ie the cas192d for the wa2 and hd800 may be a little too neutral. 

He hasn't led me astray yet.


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> thats the angle I've been working on.
> 
> But my research and guidance I'm receiving from my local woo stockist (who I've ordered the wa2 through and who's selling the dac) is suggesting, even though the cas192d is a more detailed dac, I'm better off sticking with my irdac (at this point) as I'd probably be better with a detailed dac with a little warmth. ie the cas192d for the wa2 and hd800 may be a little too neutral.
> 
> He hasn't led me astray yet.


 

 Based on my experience with the WA2 I'd say that sounds like good advice!  What you don't want is something that's too dry and analytical, and with the hd800 you're better off to error slightly on the warm side.


----------



## ru4music

cant beat beats said:


> The only 6N23P that is good is the single wire getter? Are the other getter types any good? *What's the word in the forums?*


 

  Here's a thread started by Rob @rb2013 where he does his 6922 tube shootout:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
  
 This comparison should give you some great insight!  Don't be afraid to PM him with questions; I also purchased my `75 6N23P tubes from him.
  
@Franatic recently was also impressed with them in his WA2.


----------



## thecrow

ru4music said:


> Based on my experience with the WA2 I'd say that sounds like good advice!  What you don't want is something that's too dry and analytical, and with the hd800 you're better off to error slightly on the warm side.


 

 Hi
  
 I held off on the questyle due to advice similar to yours.
  
 I'll wait ti get to know my WA2 better and upgrade from my irdac when the time is right and when i know which direction i need to take it
  
  
 And the WA2 arrived today - (and yes it is a new toy but )with just stock tubes, coming from the soloist which i really have enjoyed its structure and detail (which in Australia is 1/2 the rice of the wa2) let me just say WOW!!!
  
 The detail has gone up a solid level or probably two - i did not expect that much. and that's just with the stock tubes. The tube rolling might start tomorrow night.
  
 I certainly have no time to stop, let the stock tubes cool down tonight and then put others in


----------



## devilboy

Congrats on your new 2 crow! tube rolling is fun and maddening at the same time. But with the right ones, the WA2 will be sublime. Welcome to the family.


----------



## devilboy

Check out the Woo WA2 tube rolling thread. 
I have Mullard EZ80 rextifiers, TS/Chatham 6AS7G outputs and Amperex 6DJ8 for drivers. I haven't tried other tubes yes but this combo gives me a very nice sound that complements the 800s very well IMO.


----------



## thecrow

devilboy said:


> Check out the Woo WA2 tube rolling thread.
> I have Mullard EZ80 rextifiers, TS/Chatham 6AS7G outputs and Amperex 6DJ8 for drivers. I haven't tried other tubes yes but this combo gives me a very nice sound that complements the 800s very well IMO.


I've already picked up a pair of 6922 Amperex pq (white shields, USA), Siemens cca, rft ez80 and used Gec 6as7g. I guess I had to do something whilst I was waiting for my amp to arrive 

It certainly was a very happy couple of hours last night


----------



## devilboy

thecrow said:


> I've already picked up a pair of 6922 Amperex pq (white shields, USA), Siemens cca, rft ez80 and used Gec 6as7g. I guess I had to do something whilst I was waiting for my amp to arrive
> 
> It certainly was a very happy couple of hours last night


 HAHAHAHA. 
I did the same thing waiting for mine! 
So......... you went with GEC huh? IF I try another output tube, it will be that. I hear wonderful things about GEC. May I ask where did you get them?


----------



## thecrow

I bought the pair off a member at stereonet here in Australia. 

They are used but for $200 (aud) for the pair I thought it would be a good introduction to them as opposed to forking over $800-$900. 

I'll pop them in tonight/tomorrow


----------



## devilboy

I see. ............. now you have me thinking.


----------



## thecrow

I know I'm preaching to the believers but I am soooooo loving the wa2 that I picked up early this week. 

Never expected it to be so good. 

Here's a little pic. A little tedeschi/trucks action from the crossroads DVD from some years back. With a few tubes glowing in the bottom left doing their magic. 

Derek trucks never sounded so good!!!

Johnny winter is on stage next.


----------



## thecrow

question re the stock tubes of the wa2 for experienced owners..........
  
  
 what should i do with the stock tubes?
  
 these include the ge jan 6080wc and the philips ECG jan 6922
  
 i only received tham last week and have bought other tubes that sound better to these (amperex pqs and siemens ccas and some used gec 6as7gs)
  
 particularly as I have bought two different pairs of 6dj8s I cant see myself going back to these stock tubes.
 some members here dismiss them immediately - are they really THAT ordinary? has anyone actually properly burnt them in to see how they evolve? 
  
 if there is no need for them would i be looking at something like $40 for each of the pairs
  
 what have you found you have done with them?
  
 thanks
 peter t


----------



## StanT

Mine are sitting at the bottom of box. If I ever decide to sell the amp. they will go to the next owner.
  
 Ordinary is exactly the adjective that I'd use.


----------



## thecrow

ru4music said:


> Based on my experience with the WA2 I'd say that sounds like good advice!  What you don't want is something that's too dry and analytical, and with the hd800 you're better off to error slightly on the warm side.


 

 I waited. After receiving my wa2 early last week and from my understanding of what the questyle cas192d offers i'd agree these two are not the best together, particularly for the hd800s.
  
 Since then i picked up a second hand metrum hex (1 year old about 40% off), which arrived today and _that_ combo is working great. Now that has what you too mentioned - great detail, openness, great tone, "organic" (whatever that means ), layers and i fell this is going to grow more on me
  
 i think i'm now set!!!!
  
 at least for quite a while
  
 good times!!!


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> I waited. After receiving my wa2 early last week and from my understanding of what the questyle cas192d offers i'd agree these two are not the best together, particularly for the hd800s.
> 
> Since then i picked up a second hand metrum hex (1 year old about 40% off), which arrived today and _that_ combo is working great. Now that has what you too mentioned - great detail, openness, great tone, "organic" (whatever that means ), layers and i fell this is going to grow more on me
> 
> ...


 

 Great, let me know what you think after it settles-in a bit and also what tube combos are working for you!


----------



## thecrow

ru4music said:


> Great, let me know what you think after it settles-in a bit and also what tube combos are working for you!


 

 it's all settling in very well. So am I.
  
 Moving to a dac at the level of the hex and not ever having heard a dac at this price point before I did need to mix and match my gear (with older gear) to understand better what i was getting.
  
 I initially thought I was getting recessed vocals and quite a bit of (overly-) full bottom end. But using it with my soloist amp that I'm used to i realised the dac is quite neutral, perhaps a small touch of warmth, and the layering of detail presents something quite new to me. Broader stage as these layers are not clustered and hence so much more is presented and apparent and I'm thinking that made me feel the vocals were not as upfront as I was previously used to with the rich mids of the burson as there is now so much more going on (if that makes sense).
  
 tubes used are the gec 6as7g (picked up some used ones) and boy did the detail increase so much from the stock tubes and the overall tone is so rich. it's great reading comments on 6080 and other 6as7g tubes here in case i wanted a little change.
  
 then there is the  6922 amperex pq (usa) that are described at joe's tube lore as "Amperex 6922, PQ, white label, US (shield, gold pins) Another very good Amperex tube. Warm yet lively, focused, grainless and transparent. A winner one of the best. Dynamic with punchy bass to boot...." I agree. I can't add more. And these could well be opening up a bit more as that feeling of recessed vocals I mentioned earlier is leaving me and if the mids come up a little more that will be even better.
  
 And also picked up some Siemens CCas from 1974 on ebay which have a solid state sound with real smoothness on my hd800s and a very good extended, tight and detailed bottom end. Perhaps a little dry and a little too analytical in my first impressions but these impressions might be changing a little. I have only put in about 5 hours on these so I'm looking forward to see what may lie ahead as they are losing their "dryness" tonight - but then again maybe I'm adjusting too.
  
 And then there is the rft ez80 rectifiers I thought I'd grab based on members' views here
  
 Certainly enjoying my combos and helped I've received along the way from a number of members including DubStep Girl, Badas and Brent jesse tubes.
  
 Some great write ups on Joe's Tube Lore and Brent Jesse's website to act as a guide.
 I only wish there was just as an extensive a list on the tubes for the 6080 tubes.
  
 It's certainly been a good move picking up the wa2 - detail and tone that has seriously exceeded my expectaions
  
 It's weird not needing any gear (at the moment) as hard as i might try to find something I'd want. Might be time to spend more time listening to music as crazy as that sounds


----------



## Thenewguy007

thecrow said:


> tubes used are the gec 6as7g (picked up some used ones) and boy did the detail increase so much from the stock tubes and the overall tone is so rich. it's great reading comments on 6080 and other 6as7g tubes here in case i wanted a little change.
> 
> then there is the  6922 amperex pq (usa) that are described at joe's tube lore as "Amperex 6922, PQ, white label, US (shield, gold pins) Another very good Amperex tube. Warm yet lively, focused, grainless and transparent. A winner one of the best. Dynamic with punchy bass to boot...." I agree. I can't add more. And these could well be opening up a bit more as that feeling of recessed vocals I mentioned earlier is leaving me and if the mids come up a little more that will be even better.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Out of the tubes you used so far, which one are you using the most?
 Is the gec 6as7g the best one by far? The price is super crazy compared to everything else.


----------



## gahung

Is the official upgrade tubes the best for the price? Since I have some drive tubes left I don't need to find the ECC88, but I have a hard time finding NOS matched paired 6080 and EZ80 tubes.


----------



## thecrow

thenewguy007 said:


> Out of the tubes you used so far, which one are you using the most?
> Is the gec 6as7g the best one by far? The price is super crazy compared to everything else.


I was lucky enough to get 3 used Gec 6as7gs from a member of another forum here in Australia that I had been chatting to at a fair price. About a 1/4 of the usual asking price for 2. It was a good way for me to try them and they have been no problem at all. He didn't need them anymore after selling his wa2. So apart from the stock tubes that are nowhere near the same tone and warmth straight out of the box these are the only ones I've heard. 

If I was to try another 6080 pair I would want something with very good detail but closer to neutral with perhaps a touch of warmth. Not sure if tung sol 5998s cover that but I'll keep reading opinions. 

And with respect to the 6922s I've been preferring the Amperex but I'm going to leave the Siemens in for now to see how they evolve. 

I'm enjoying the difference in these two offerings. 

I must add the led remastered double album has never sounded as good before. Using the Amperex on that.

Overall with the dac I now have guitars (acoustic) and cymbals sound exceptional. And piano. 

What are your findings in your setup with tubes? You have the X sabre dac, right?


----------



## thecrow

gahung said:


> Is the official upgrade tubes the best for the price? Since I have some drive tubes left I don't need to find the ECC88, but I have a hard time finding NOS matched paired 6080 and EZ80 tubes.


I wouldn't limit myself to liking at just their tubes. And I'm not sure how good their pricing is. 

I have bought some tubes from Brent Jesse and he's been really helpful and insightful. And his service had been great. 

Badas here seems to be one member that has had quite a but if experience on 6080 tubes too. He's been quite helpful to me too.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Read through a few other tube rolling threads & still so confused on what path to upgrade.
  
 Would just upgrading the power tubes without touching the Rectifier or Driver tubes be enough to get a huge improvement?
  
  
 Is there a huge disparity in 5998 tube quality?
 Like is the difference between a Sylvania, Chatham, Amperex or Tung-Sol branded 5998 big or small, like a 5% margin in difference?


----------



## jhljhl

thenewguy007 said:


> Read through a few other tube rolling threads & still so confused on what path to upgrade.
> 
> Would just upgrading the power tubes without touching the Rectifier or Driver tubes be enough to get a huge improvement?
> 
> ...


 

 I don't think there is a difference between 5998's but the Western Electric 421a is a bit better.


----------



## MIKELAP

thenewguy007 said:


> Read through a few other tube rolling threads & still so confused on what path to upgrade.
> 
> Would just upgrading the power tubes without touching the Rectifier or Driver tubes be enough to get a huge improvement?
> 
> ...


 
 Speaking for myself  HUGE is a word that i dont use often in tubes SUBTIL alot more


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> I must add *the led remastered double album has never sounded as good before. *Using the Amperex on that.


 
 Is the Led Zep remastered double album (CD) sound quality at a high level?  I have some Led Zep CDs and the SQ is not so good!


----------



## thecrow

ru4music said:


> Is the Led Zep remastered double album (CD) sound quality at a high level?  I have some Led Zep CDs and the SQ is not so good!


I have no idea how good the SQ is supposed to be. But I did notice that this particular double album was an immediate stand out as far as an improvement in my previous (less expensive) setup. 

With each session I have with my new set up everything is sounding more and more balanced. Using the 6922 Amperex PQs and the Gec 6as7g I was worried I may have preferred a little less bottom end as the vocals may have been a little recessed. Last night things were sounding very well balanced (neutral). 

Seems like my new tubes and wa2 and my head are all coming together fantastically.


----------



## ru4music

thecrow said:


> I have no idea how good the SQ is supposed to be. But I did notice that this particular double album was an immediate stand out as far as an improvement in my previous (less expensive) setup.
> 
> With each session I have with my new set up everything is sounding more and more balanced. Using the 6922 Amperex PQs and the Gec 6as7g I was worried I may have preferred a little less bottom end as the vocals may have been a little recessed. Last night things were sounding very well balanced (neutral).
> 
> Seems like my new tubes and wa2 and my head are all coming together fantastically.


 

 Good deal!


----------



## thecrow

ru4music said:


> Good deal!







thenewguy007 said:


> Read through a few other tube rolling threads & still so confused on what path to upgrade.
> 
> Would just upgrading the power tubes without touching the Rectifier or Driver tubes be enough to get a huge improvement?
> 
> ...


My new system and the Amperex 6922 PQs are just getting better and better. Any concerns I had about too much emphasis on the bottom end or recessed mids has (as good as) flown out the door. 

In some advice I've got from dubstep girl (I hope I'm not talking out of school) she thinks the Gec 6as7gs are a step above the tung sol 5998 and then there's a further gap to the others. 

The gecs having better layers and details over the tung sols which in turn bring better details than the others. But if you're wanting more warmth bottom end, at the cost of some detail then I believe the others come into the equation. 

I've just ordered some bugle boys to see what they're about and to get a little more warmth and I'm going to look for some tung sols for that little variety too. 

Hope that info may help


----------



## jhljhl

A pair of 6922 pinch waist: $1800+
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-CCa-E88CC-Valvo-D-getter-pinched-waist-yello-label-same-7L0-code-Box-/141821047786


----------



## Krutsch

jhljhl said:


> A pair of 6922 pinch waist: $1800+
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-CCa-E88CC-Valvo-D-getter-pinched-waist-yello-label-same-7L0-code-Box-/141821047786


 

 Wow... $1800+ for CCa and they sold quickly.


----------



## jhljhl

thecrow said:


> My new system and the Amperex 6922 PQs are just getting better and better. Any concerns I had about too much emphasis on the bottom end or recessed mids has (as good as) flown out the door.
> 
> In some advice I've got from dubstep girl (I hope I'm not talking out of school) she thinks the Gec 6as7gs are a step above the tung sol 5998 and then there's a further gap to the others.
> 
> ...


 

 I think that's the general consensus on the gec.


----------



## thecrow

krutsch said:


> Wow... $1800+ for CCa and they sold quickly.


 
 Surely these tubes can't be any good - i don't see many members talking about any of theirs here on headfi


----------



## Thenewguy007

thecrow said:


> Surely these tubes can't be any good - i don't see many members talking about any of theirs here on headfi


 


 It's the first time I ever seen them mentioned. Haven't heard a peep about them in other tube impression/reviews anywhere.
 Who were those people bidding it up to $1800 on them?


----------



## Krutsch

thenewguy007 said:


> It's the first time I ever seen them mentioned. Haven't heard a peep about them in other tube impression/reviews anywhere.
> Who were those people bidding it up to $1800 on them?


 
  
 I can't say I have, either. I know the Philips Mini Watt PQ "pinched waist" are highly regarded, but I've never seen on-line a Valvo  - maybe it's a re-branded Philips?


----------



## Aethelred

krutsch said:


> I can't say I have, either. I know the Philips Mini Watt PQ "pinched waist" are highly regarded, but I've never seen on-line a Valvo  - maybe it's a re-branded Philips?


 

 Unfortunately I do not believe they are that good. At that time Valvo was just one of the names as Amperex or Philips so what is more important is the factory. The best factory for E88CC/ 188CC with that kind of sonic traits was Heerlen ( second line of code starts with triangle symbol ) these tubes are from 6 - Philips, Eindhoven. Radio valve lab. receiving valve technology group Russian origin. Yellowish color means they were made for long distance  transmission ( POST office ) . They should have very good characteristics but I think ( never heard those ) Heerlen tubes pinch waist will still beat them in the sound department. And still in my opinion after listening to many E88CC family double *SQ* Philips are best cost/ quality option.


----------



## Krutsch

aethelred said:


> Unfortunately I do not believe they are that good. At that time Valvo was just one of the names as Amperex or Philips so what is more important is the factory. The best factory for E88CC/ 188CC with that kind of sonic traits was Heerlen ( second line of code starts with triangle symbol ) these tubes are from 6 - Philips, Eindhoven. Radio valve lab. receiving valve technology group Russian origin. Yellowish color means they were made for long distance  transmission ( POST office ) . They should have very good characteristics but I think ( never heard those ) Heerlen tubes pinch waist will still beat them in the sound department. And still in my opinion after listening to many E88CC family double *SQ* Philips are best cost/ quality option.


 

 Good to know... I have a lot to learn when it comes to ID'ing tubes and points of origin. Thanks for the tip


----------



## thecrow

Let's face it, the $1800 for two little tubes sounds like money laundering.


----------



## Aethelred

thecrow said:


> Let's face it, the $1800 for two little tubes sounds like money laundering.



I think i saw somebody paying 16k usd for nos tubes from 1940s.


----------



## billerb1

jhljhl said:


> A pair of 6922 pinch waist: $1800+
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


These are for many the Holy Grail of all Holy Grails. Here's what Brent Jessee has to say about the Holland made Valvo Cca Pinched Waists...starting about half way down. These are also the first year production of the pinched waists which had the added caveat of having gold internal wiring (supposedly) for reportedly a richer sound. Read it and weep.


Cca: 
Whew, these babies are so scarce there isn't even much info out there about them! Mentioned by audiophiles, usually in a reverent whisper, these gold pinned gems are about as good is it gets in 6DJ8-land. Matched triode sections, low noise screening, 10,000 hr. heater life expectancy, carefully controlled frame grid winding, low microphonics......the list goes on and on. This is regarded as one of the most detailed and three-dimensional sounding tube ever made in this family of tubes. Most of what is available is Siemens or Telefunken made, although there are a few very rare examples of Philips or Amperex Holland made out there. Since this was a tube made specifically for the German goverment and military, all that I have seen carry a German brand label, even those made in Holland. Even rarer are the Holland made Cca tubes with the pinched waist indented glass midsections, said to be the most sonically "3D" tube ever made, of any type. Finding these is akin to finding a 1795 gold piece in your attic! I don't believe there were any of these Cca tubes made in the USA. Awesome audiophile tubes! Yes, they are costly, but like most top flight NOS audio tubes, you get what you pay for. These Cca tubes will give you more improvement in sound than upgrades like expensive speaker cables that can cost 5 times as much as a pair of Cca tubes!


----------



## jhljhl

billerb1 said:


> jhljhl said:
> 
> 
> > A pair of 6922 pinch waist: $1800+
> ...


 

 There must be diminishing returns.  I think it is mostly the rarity as well as supply and demand for collectors.  Probably more for investing then use.


----------



## Krutsch

jhljhl said:


> There must be diminishing returns.  I think it is mostly the rarity as well as supply and demand for collectors.  Probably more for investing then use.


 

 I have some Siemens CCa tubes and they are nice, but not my favorites. What I am learning about tubes is the manufacturing quality and condition of the particular tubes are really important.


----------



## thecrow

With the hifiman range if HPs are there regular users here of the wa2 with say the he560, he500 or 400i that works really well. I have enjoyed the warmth and timbre if the he560 before. 

I bought my wa2 for the hd800s I have but wondering how (un)limited my limitations are - ie just high impedance headphones. 

Also I've heard the hd650s in the past, eg with my soloist amp,but they never impressed me much for my personal prefs (compared to my hd800s of course) but do they do anything phenomenal with the wa2 fir me to reconsider these? And u enjoyed the hd600 but more as an easy listening HP but u assume that's what they will be with the wa2 too.


----------



## maheeinfy

Nvm


----------



## HiFiGuy528

WA2 doing double duties, headphone amp + preamp.


----------



## Kimakaze

I can't see to find the answer but I just want to ask the obvious.

Looking at the front of the amp, left set of tubes is left channel and right set is right?

FYI, I get a hum on the left channel that comes and go if I moving or more precisely the amp jiggles from moving the cable. Amp is silent when I sit still,

When I tap the amp, I can hear the tapping on just the left channel.

I am going to clean the pins with detox as I swap pairs. I rarely role my tubes in the WA2.

I just wanted to know which tube is faulty if cleaning does not help.

Thanks,


----------



## thecrow

kimakaze said:


> I can't see to find the answer but I just want to ask the obvious.
> 
> Looking at the front of the amp, left set of tubes is left channel and right set is right?
> 
> ...


Yes


----------



## Kimakaze

thecrow said:


> Yes


 
  
 Thanks.  I just finished cleaning all the tube pins.  I swapped the driver tubes.  I dried the pins with a cotton swab but will wait another hour before I power it.


----------



## babybruno

Hi guys. I'm probably about 30hrs in the break in stage of my WA2 and also started to hear a slight hum on the left channel. The hum is intermittent and comes and goes randomly. Contacted Woo Audio and was informed this could be due to the new tubes being broken in and that the hum will disappear overrime. Wanted to know if you guys had the same experience. Thanks!


----------



## Thenewguy007

babybruno said:


> Hi guys. I'm probably about 30hrs in the break in stage of my WA2 and also started to hear a slight hum on the left channel. The hum is intermittent and comes and goes randomly. Contacted Woo Audio and was informed this could be due to the new tubes being broken in and that the hum will disappear overrime. Wanted to know if you guys had the same experience. Thanks!


 
  
 Switch the driver tubes & see if the right side starts humming.
  
 If not, then switch the power tubes & test that too.
  
  
 If that doesn't work & there is still humming on the left side then it's probably the amp, but I doubt it.
  
 Tubes, especially the cheap ones, are very finicky.


----------



## maheeinfy

babybruno said:


> Hi guys. I'm probably about 30hrs in the break in stage of my WA2 and also started to hear a slight hum on the left channel. The hum is intermittent and comes and goes randomly. Contacted Woo Audio and was informed this could be due to the new tubes being broken in and that the hum will disappear overrime. Wanted to know if you guys had the same experience. Thanks!



I have this exact problem on my WA2, but its on the right channel. First i thought it was the power tubes. Right one started hissing and when i switched them, hiss also switches to left.

Later I acquired two other pairs of power tubes and the right channel tube hisses on these two pairs as well. At this point i started thinking something is wrong on the right channel on the amp.
Also if i tap the right tube, tapping sound thru headphones is different/loud than when i does the same to the left tube. May be you can try this and see if your left one sounds louder than right.

Since this hiss is random, i can't say for sure if it goes away after some time. I atleast have 70+ hrs on my current tubes and they hiss sometimes. Still waiting for logging more hours with these and hopefully hiss goes away

edit: i assumed you are calling hiss as hum. In my case hum(another problem) gets audible when vol at 11o clock and from both channels


----------



## babybruno

Thanks for the tip. The audible sound coming out of my left channel is more a hum (not a hiss). It sounded more like a ground loop. Will try switching tubes tonight to see if the hum moves to the right channel. 

Yes, same thing with my unit on the hum. I can hear an audible hum when vol is past 1 o clock. I am thinking this is normal as the gain is maxed out. Besides with my HD800, a vol past 12 o clock is already very loud. But I did check with Woo Audio and they said you will definitely hear a hum if you max out the volume. Im still iffy on this so I will monitor to see if the hum gets worse - taking into account your case where the hum is audible at 11 o clock.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Also try plugging it directing into the wall socket. That might reduce some noise.


----------



## babybruno

Hi guys, so I tested tonight.  Plugged in directly into the outlet.  Gosh... worse!  The hum was more audible! 
  
 I then switch the driver tubes - no change. Still hum on the left channel. 
  
 But when I switch the power tubes, the hum moved to the right channel.  Now the problem is the hum is extremely audible on the right channel and I can hear it even as I play music!  Terrible!  I think I have a bad power tube.  These are the stock power tubes that came with the amp so I guess this will need to be replaced.


----------



## MacedonianHero

babybruno said:


> Hi guys, so I tested tonight.  Plugged in directly into the outlet.  Gosh... worse!  The hum was more audible!
> 
> I then switch the driver tubes - no change. Still hum on the left channel.
> 
> But when I switch the power tubes, the hum moved to the right channel.  Now the problem is the hum is extremely audible on the right channel and I can hear it even as I play music!  Terrible!  I think I have a bad power tube.  These are the stock power tubes that came with the amp so I guess this will need to be replaced.


 
 If the hum follows the tube, then the tube is shot...no doubts there.


----------



## babybruno

Thanks so much. Agree... problem is the power tube.  One more thing I noticed is something appears to be lose inside the bad power tube.  I also noticed a dimple on the top of the power tube - I do not see the same dimple on the other tube.  Is that normal?  Power tube is the 6080 that came with the amp.  Thanks again.


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Thanks so much. Agree... problem is the power tube.  One more thing I noticed is something appears to be lose inside the bad power tube.  I also noticed a dimple on the top of the power tube - I do not see the same dimple on the other tube.  Is that normal?  Power tube is the 6080 that came with the amp.  Thanks again.


Maybe it's a loose bit of glass. From what I've read here it shouldn't be a problem but since the tube hums then I would try to replace it by contacting woo audio/ where you bought the amp. 

Like many others here, I have the same set up with the HD 800 and I think it's great. I've bought a number of tubes in the last few months and also upgraded my dac and my setup has scaled up really well with it. 

I got a bit itchy as you may be limited in which headphones will go with the amp but with the choice of tubes that itch has subsided. 

It's like old school "hi-fi". 

Do you have a particular dac attached to it?


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> Maybe it's a loose bit of glass. From what I've read here it shouldn't be a problem but since the tube hums then I would try to replace it by contacting woo audio/ where you bought the amp.
> 
> Like many others here, I have the same set up with the HD 800 and I think it's great. I've bought a number of tubes in the last few months and also upgraded my dac and my setup has scaled up really well with it.
> 
> ...


 
 I will take a closer look.  For now the hum comes and goes but a lot less audible now.  But yes, will contact Woo Audio to have checked and replaced.  Love the pairing of the Senn HD800 and the WA2.  I'm still about 35 hours into the break in stage so I'll give it a bit more time before I start rolling tubes. 
  
 I have Yulong's Sabre DA8 and Emo's Steath dc-1.  I use the stealth in my current set-up. I like the saber dac as well but it sounded a bit more analytical when paired with the WA2 - it made the WA2 sound like a solid state, which defeats the purpose of getting a tube amp. I get what you mean by "old school" and that's exactly what I wanted to hear!       
  
 The stealth is also feeding a pair of emo class A mono's that drive a pair of full range paradigm studio's. After the break-in and the drama with my power tubes, I will get the WA2 to perform double duty as preamp to see if I can impart some of that tube sound into my 2.2 solid state setup. Have you tried the preamp function of the WA2?  I hear from a lot folks that a tube preamp paired with a solid state amp will give you the best of both worlds - warm and smoothness of tubes + dynamics and slam of solid states. I just hope they are a good match... fingers crossed.


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> I will take a closer look.  For now the hum comes and goes but a lot less audible now.  But yes, will contact Woo Audio to have checked and replaced.  Love the pairing of the Senn HD800 and the WA2.  I'm still about 35 hours into the break in stage so I'll give it a bit more time before I start rolling tubes.
> 
> I have Yulong's Sabre DA8 and Emo's Steath dc-1.  I use the stealth in my current set-up. I like the saber dac as well but it sounded a bit more analytical when paired with the WA2 - it made the WA2 sound like a solid state, which defeats the purpose of getting a tube amp. I get what you mean by "old school" and that's exactly what I wanted to hear!
> 
> The stealth is also feeding a pair of emo class A mono's that drive a pair of full range paradigm studio's. After the break-in and the drama with my power tubes, I will get the WA2 to perform double duty as preamp to see if I can impart some of that tube sound into my 2.2 solid state setup. Have you tried the preamp function of the WA2?  I hear from a lot folks that a tube preamp paired with a solid state amp will give you the best of both worlds - warm and smoothness of tubes + dynamics and slam of solid states. I just hope they are a good match... fingers crossed.


I had a very quick listen to my active jbl 5 inch monitors. It didn't really grab me too much, not that I sussed it out that much, so decided to leave those alone. 

The jbl's have some nice sweet mids which I'm happy to leave to their own devices. 

I enjoyed the wa2 (new toy) from day one and noted it's silky smoothness and good detail. But when i stared rolling it hit even better. 

No need to rush rolling tubes and there's heaos of good advice here and a fair bit of consensus. But when you do it should get even better. Enjoy.


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> I had a very quick listen to my active jbl 5 inch monitors. It didn't really grab me too much, not that I sussed it out that much, so decided to leave those alone.
> 
> The jbl's have some nice sweet mids which I'm happy to leave to their own devices.
> 
> ...


 

 You know what... I just hooked up the preamp. Same initial impression. Will probably leave it alone for now and have another go at it after the break in.   I see you have the JBL's.  I used to have the JBL monitors before I moved to a full range.  Liked it very much!  I tried a lot but settled with the JBL's coz of the mids and the bass extensions - pretty impressive for a 5inch woofer.  Wanted to share my audio journey:
  

 emo's stealth 6 - amazing detail but too analytical
  

 JBL LSR 305's
  

 paradigm studio 100


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> You know what... I just hooked up the preamp. Same initial impression. Will probably leave it alone for now and have another go at it after the break in.   I see you have the JBL's.  I used to have the JBL monitors before I moved to a full range.  Liked it very much!  I tried a lot but settled with the JBL's coz of the mids and the bass extensions - pretty impressive for a 5inch woofer.  Wanted to share my audio journey:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i bought the lsr2325's six months before yours came out. I listened to a few various ones around the price point and the jbl's were ahead on the mids and overall sound balance. And the old focusrite 2i2. Pretty decent want you can get nowadays for about $600AUD. 

One of my jbl's have the compulsory dented cone thanks to my now 5 yo. 

With a young family floor speakers are not yet needed.

I've spent more than enough on my headphone gear and amp.


----------



## Thenewguy007

babybruno said:


> Hi guys, so I tested tonight.  Plugged in directly into the outlet.  Gosh... worse!  The hum was more audible!
> 
> I then switch the driver tubes - no change. Still hum on the left channel.
> 
> But when I switch the power tubes, the hum moved to the right channel.  Now the problem is the hum is extremely audible on the right channel and I can hear it even as I play music!  Terrible!  I think I have a bad power tube.  These are the stock power tubes that came with the amp so I guess this will need to be replaced.


 
  
  
 Are you using a wall adapter like this?
  

  
 This solved the noise on my Schiit Asgard that I had.


----------



## babybruno

thenewguy007 said:


> Are you using a wall adapter like this?
> 
> 
> 
> This solved the noise on my Schiit Asgard that I had.


 
  
 Thanks for the tip.  I will certainly try this one.  A couple of questions if you will.  You know where I can buy these and how do I connect this?  The amp is currently plugged into a power conditioner.  Do I plug this between the amp power chord and the power conditioner or should I plug this in between the power conditioner and the outlet?  Thanks so much!


----------



## Thenewguy007

They are like a buck & they are sold pretty much everywhere. Try looking at the electrical accessory section at any store. Super market, hardware store, retail store etc..
  
  
 Just plug it to the end of your power cord & then plugging it directly to a wall socket.
  
 Power & surge protectors tend to have more noise.
  
 It was a night & day difference when I used it on my Asgard 2 amp.


----------



## maheeinfy

babybruno said:


> Thanks for the tip.  I will certainly try this one.  A couple of questions if you will.  You know where I can buy these and how do I connect this?  The amp is currently plugged into a power conditioner.  Do I plug this between the amp power chord and the power conditioner or should I plug this in between the power conditioner and the outlet?  Thanks so much!


 
 if you want to get them online, search for '3 prong to 2 prong adapter'. 
  
 I tried them on my amp and they did not make the hum go away; basically no effect.   I am curious to know if it works in your case


----------



## babybruno

maheeinfy said:


> if you want to get them online, search for '3 prong to 2 prong adapter'.
> 
> I tried them on my amp and they did not make the hum go away; basically no effect.   I am curious to know if it works in your case


 

 Hi there, I just tried them this week.  I agree.  No change - hum did not go away.  In fact, I even noticed the soundstage narrowed so I took it out.  I feel like this is degrading the SQ of my system.


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> i bought the lsr2325's six months before yours came out. I listened to a few various ones around the price point and the jbl's were ahead on the mids and overall sound balance. And the old focusrite 2i2. Pretty decent want you can get nowadays for about $600AUD.
> 
> One of my jbl's have the compulsory dented cone thanks to my now 5 yo.
> 
> ...


 

 The 2325's are good as well - my bro had these with the matching 2310 sub.  I feel the 2310 sub was better than the LSR matching sub.
  
 Kinda felt the same when I saw the wife vacuuming the cones of my JBL's!!  She said it was dusty!!
  
 Just started my headphone journey!  Woo Audio is shipping the power tubes today.  Hope that takes care of the hum/hiss issue coz I really don't want to send the amp back for check-up. 
  
 I am also looking at a matched pair of Tungsol Chatham 2399/5998's.  Would these be a good match for the WA2?


----------



## babybruno

babybruno said:


> Hi there, I just tried them this week.  I agree.  No change - hum did not go away.  In fact, I even noticed the soundstage narrowed so I took it out.  I feel like this is degrading the SQ of my system.


 

 Guys, I had to double check what I was hearing so I did an A/B test just to be sure.  Tested back and forth with and without the plug.  It's not the soundstage... the mids got thinner and the highs started to sound a bit harsh so these plugs will go back to radioshack.  
  
 Interestingly, I just use a regular power chord on my WA2.  I have a pair of shunyata venom I use on the monoblocks so I used it to test.  Wow.. very noticeable difference in SQ.  The improvement in SQ is more apparent on my head-fi system than it is on my full-range.  Overall sound became fuller - more air, bass response improved and the mids became more pronounced without any compromise in soundstage.
  
 Can you guys let me know what powerchords you are using on your WA2?  After hearing the improvement I am leaning towards the venom but wanted to know your thoughts.


----------



## Franatic

babybruno said:


> Hi there, I just tried them this week.  I agree.  No change - hum did not go away.  In fact, I even noticed the soundstage narrowed so I took it out.  I feel like this is degrading the SQ of my system.


 
 BB, do you have cable TV  hooked into your system anywhere? I had a large hum in my system. I troubleshot the cause the be the audio analog stereo output of my TV connected to my audio system. This was caused by a ground loop from the cable TV input. I changed my audio out to the TV's optical output and the hum disappeared completely.


----------



## Krutsch

> This was caused by a ground loop from the cable TV input. I changed my audio out to the TV's optical output and the hum disappeared completely.


 
  
 An extremely common problem and the typical solution, as you mention.


----------



## kggibbs

Anyone else feel that warranty on WA2(1 year) bit on the low side?

Some of the budget amps i own came with better warranty.


----------



## ru4music

babybruno said:


> Can you guys let me know what powerchords you are using on your WA2?  After hearing the improvement I am leaning towards the venom but wanted to know your thoughts.


 
  
*Pangea Audio AC 9SE MKII Signature Power Cable*: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC9S2&opt=3654
  
 Yes, I hear a difference!


----------



## babybruno

franatic said:


> BB, do you have cable TV  hooked into your system anywhere? I had a large hum in my system. I troubleshot the cause the be the audio analog stereo output of my TV connected to my audio system. This was caused by a ground loop from the cable TV input. I changed my audio out to the TV's optical output and the hum disappeared completely.




Hi Fran, no cable tv hooked up. The room is dedicated just for audio. I do have a pc, Dac and amps hooked up in the room. Got the replacement tubes. Was enjoying it for a week until the left channel hum came back. Now it stays on the left channel even after I switch the tubes left and right. The hum sometimes is very audible I can hear it while playing music - such a nuisance!! It disappears when I switch off then back on. I would sometimes listen for hours without audible hum. But there are days when the hum will resurface after just a few mins powering up. Tried the 2 prong plug which didnt work. Tried moving the amp in the kitchen, living and bedrooms - this pesky hum just wouldnt go away.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Were the replacement tubes for the power or preamp tubes?
  
 There are 6 tubes in total & if one of them is off, it could affect them all.


----------



## babybruno

thenewguy007 said:


> Were the replacement tubes for the power or preamp tubes?
> 
> There are 6 tubes in total & if one of them is off, it could affect them all.




Power tubes only. i tested before. I did try switching the rect and the drivers before but the hum stayed on the left channel. But when I switch the ppwer tubes, the hum moved to the right and this was how I thought the problem was with the power tube. But with the hum resurfacing back on the left channel even with the replacement tube, Im not so sure anymore. I will try switching the other two tubes again to see if the hum moves with them. Thanks!


----------



## maheeinfy

babybruno said:


> Power tubes only. i tested before. I did try switching the rect and the drivers before but the hum stayed on the left channel. But when I switch the ppwer tubes, the hum moved to the right and this was how I thought the problem was with the power tube. But with the hum resurfacing back on the left channel even with the replacement tube, Im not so sure anymore. I will try switching the other two tubes again to see if the hum moves with them. Thanks!


 
 I went thru almost exact troubleshooting steps. I rolled few different pairs of power tubes; So far i haven't been able to get rid of the hiss(not hum). 
  
 I am yet to roll driver and rectifier tubes, but based on what i've seen so far, i can't say i have high hopes that it will work.


----------



## babybruno

Hi Guys,

Thanks to the new guys advise, I switched the rectifier tubes last night. Looks like the hum disappeared... atleast for now. Not sure what went on but my guess is the pins probably didnt properly connect when I first inserted them. Amyway, not sure if Im out of the woods yet so I'll monitor for about a week - fingers crossed!

Maheeimfy, try to pull out then switch the rectifiers left to right. I didnt realise how sensitive these yubes are until I tried.


----------



## maheeinfy

babybruno said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Thanks to the new guys advise, I switched the rectifier tubes last night. Looks like the hum disappeared... atleast for now. Not sure what went on but my guess is the pins probably didnt properly connect when I first inserted them. Amyway, not sure if Im out of the woods yet so I'll monitor for about a week - fingers crossed!
> 
> Maheeimfy, try to pull out then switch the rectifiers left to right. I didnt realise how sensitive these yubes are until I tried.


 
 if this works, you'd solved it for both of us
  
 Hope it works


----------



## babybruno

maheeinfy said:


> if this works, you'd solved it for both of us
> 
> Hope it works h34r:




If the rectifier does not work for you then do the same on the driver tubes. i think the stock driver tubes are noisy and microphonic. 

it is also causing an alarming buzz on my ss amp and extremely audible hum on the speakers when i connect as a preamp. i can not even connect the preamp now worrying that either the ss amp or the tube amp might blow up!!


----------



## babybruno

Hi Guys,
  
 So 3 days straight and the hum on the left channel is gone - not a single hum resurfaced in probably 10 hours of playing.  Good sign!
  
 BUT... I have an alarming buzz on my solid state amp when I connect WA2 as preamp - the buzz is coming from the ss amp (not from the speakers).  Separately, there is also a very audible hum + hiss coming out of my full range speakers 10 feet away from the listening position.  You think there is a compatibility issue with the stock driver tubes and my ss amp?  Do you think replacing the stock driver tubes would solve this problem? 
  
 With the left channel drama on the stock rectifier tubes, I'm beginning to think that the quality of Woo Audio's stock tubes are below par.


----------



## maheeinfy

babybruno said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> So 3 days straight and the hum on the left channel is gone - not a single hum resurfaced in probably 10 hours of playing.  Good sign!
> 
> ...



Stock tubes are bad in my case as well. 
I was suggested Ebtech hum X to get rid of the hum. I am yet to try it though


----------



## babybruno

maheeinfy said:


> Stock tubes are bad in my case as well.
> I was suggested Ebtech hum X to get rid of the hum. I am yet to try it though




Ebtech looks promising. BUT I read this unit can only handle a max load of 6A. Do you know how many amps does the wa2 draw? Cant find that info anywhere in the manual. I read anything more than 6A will fry the ebtech.


----------



## maheeinfy

babybruno said:


> Ebtech looks promising. BUT I read this unit can only handle a max load of 6A. Do you know how many amps does the wa2 draw? Cant find that info anywhere in the manual. I read anything more than 6A will fry the ebtech.


 
 http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf
  
 From this table, i see that WA2 draws 48 Watts. So for US it comes to 0.44 Amps of current draw. 
  
 If i am wrong, hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in


----------



## thecrow

Like a lot of others here I have the hd800's with my wa2. I also have a nice mixture of tubes for various sound profiles. And I love that set up. It ain't changing!

But I've always been a fan of the easy listening style of the hd600 every time I listen to them. Is it worth considering the hd600s or once you have them and the hd800 do you Not bother going to your hd600?


----------



## Thenewguy007

thecrow said:


> Like a lot of others here I have the hd800's with my wa2. I also have a nice mixture of tubes for various sound profiles. And I love that set up. It ain't changing!
> 
> But I've always been a fan of the easy listening style of the hd600 every time I listen to them. Is it worth considering the hd600s or once you have them and the hd800 do you Not bother going to your hd600?


 


 I had the HD600, but not at the same time with the HD800.
  
 I remember them having a lot of detail, small stage, very mellow bass.
 I think most people say the HD800 is direct successor to the HD600 sound (outside the soundstage).


----------



## thecrow

thenewguy007 said:


> I had the HD600, but not at the same time with the HD800.
> 
> I remember them having a lot of detail, small stage, very mellow bass.
> I think most people say the HD800 is direct successor to the HD600 sound (outside the soundstage).


I had a listen to the hd600 again today with the idea of buying it however I didn't buy it. 

It wouldn't get a run with my hd800 around. In fact the hd650 suited me better today than the 600 so I had nothing to buy


----------



## maheeinfy

babybruno said:


> Ebtech looks promising. BUT I read this unit can only handle a max load of 6A. Do you know how many amps does the wa2 draw? Cant find that info anywhere in the manual. I read anything more than 6A will fry the ebtech.


 
 any update on the hum ? were you able to resolve it


----------



## babybruno

maheeinfy said:


> any update on the hum ? were you able to resolve it




Hum is gone!! Amp is now dead silent. I replaced the power tubes to ts5998 and made it even more quiet - no more weird microphonics. I just got the bugle boys today. will roll those tonight and will keep you posted.

have you tried switching the driver and the rect tubes?


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> You know what... I just hooked up the preamp. Same initial impression. Will probably leave it alone for now and have another go at it after the break in.   I see you have the JBL's.  I used to have the JBL monitors before I moved to a full range.  Liked it very much!  I tried a lot but settled with the JBL's coz of the mids and the bass extensions - pretty impressive for a 5inch woofer.  Wanted to share my audio journey:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi babybruno. How have you found the bugle boys? Are you using the stock power tubes or have you changed this stage?

Have you tried the wa2 as a preamp again?

I wanted to see if you had any advice. I tried The wa2 as a preamp with the jbl lsr2325's and it worked with some music but not others. This double amping thing doesn't work enough. 

I have a very revealing dac but unfortunately it has fixed output and it simply won't work by going straight from the dacs to the jbls and using software volume control. It's way too loud and the jbls were on notch 2 on the volume and it was simply not working. 

The jbls are still acceptable with the focusrite 2i2 I have as the interface but is there any recommendation you might have as a relatively neutral or slightly warm pre amp that you may have used with your jbls? Were you in a similar position? Or did you use some other quality interface worth me looking at?

Thanks
Peter


----------



## maheeinfy

babybruno said:


> Hum is gone!! Amp is now dead silent. I replaced the power tubes to ts5998 and made it even more quiet - no more weird microphonics. I just got the bugle boys today. will roll those tonight and will keep you posted.
> 
> have you tried switching the driver and the rect tubes?


 
 not yet..i've been rolling power tubes along with stock driver and rectifier. 
  
 I plan to replace rectifier tubes soon, and see if it gets rid of the hum. 
  
 Did u find any noticeable difference is audio after rolling driver and rectifier tubes


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> Hi babybruno. How have you found the bugle boys? Are you using the stock power tubes or have you changed this stage?
> 
> Have you tried the wa2 as a preamp again?
> 
> ...




Hi Peter,

Now using Ts5998 and Bugleboys with stock rectifiers. Amazing how the sound quality has improved just with the 2 combination. Bugle boys are great!! It tamed the harshness of the stock drivers. Just waiting for the rft's then I should be done with it - at least for now. 

The preamp is a disaster in my system. My mono's don't like it. It creates a very loud hiss + hum. The hum gets louder as the volume increases. I disconnected the source to see if the hum could be coming from the DAC but the hum didnt go away. I tried a 2 prong and the hum eliminator but didnt get rid of the hum. This rules out the ground loop in the system. It could either be compatibility between ss amp and tube preamp, or something is not right within the preamp's internal circuitry. I took a video of the problem and emailed woo audio for them to look at before I send the amp back for checkup. A little disappointed that I have a problem with the preamp considering I got the wa2 for that added feature. 

In any case, I played a couple of songs using the preamp (even with the hum). The sound through the preamp didnt really grab me. It sounded a bit dark and very lose. The speakers lost its dynamics considering paradigm studios are very dynamic and sometimes bordering bright / harsh depending on the amp driving it. 

Jbls studios have very good mids that are pretty warm and lush (at least to my ears). I preferred them over emos stealth which are very analytical, mackies that are tight but lacking in mids, adams which are difficult to place coz of their front ports. try switching your DAC. emo's stealth dc1 is neutral - i actually prefer it over yulong which costs more than twice. it has volume comtrols so u can technically use as preamp (caveat - DAC setting sounds better than the preamp setting in the dc1). for me the dc1 paired very nicely with my jbl studios - i think warm enough to take out the preamp in the chain. sugggest to also take advantage of the balanced xlr connection if ur DAC has one. i believe jbl studios have xlr ports. i dont think i will want to go back to rca's after trying a balanced interconnect.

i still cant comment on the preamp to amp combo coz of the hum issue. all i can say is initial impression was not exciting. it may be due to the hum issue, or i may need to get a different set of tubes to tune the preamp to pair well with my ss amp. In any case, will deal with the hum issue first. Will keep you posted. 

 Cheers,

Jay


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> Now using Ts5998 and Bugleboys with stock rectifiers. Amazing how the sound quality has improved just with the 2 combination. Bugle boys are great!! It tamed the harshness of the stock drivers. Just waiting for the rft's then I should be done with it - at least for now.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Hi Jay
  
 i was listening to the TS5998's myself just last night. I've found that i can also use slightly brighter driver tubes (eg amperex 6922) with the TS 5998's in my set up with the hd800's and the brightness is still under control.
  
 I've thrown away the idea of the WA2 with my jbls's (did not work well with Steely Dan that is my benchmark) and thanks to help on headfi i've ordered this dac/monitor volume controller that I hope will work.
 http://www.tcelectronic.com/level-pilot/
  
 My dac (metrum hex) does have xlr outputs so I'm hoping it will all come together. it does have a natural sound but I'm not sure how these close range monitors will work with a dac whose sound is very open with lots of layers that are presented very openly and wide. It may take some getting used to and my table is only so wide that they sit on. But still cant wait til it arrives.


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> Hi Jay
> 
> i was listening to the TS5998's myself just last night. I've found that i can also use slightly brighter driver tubes (eg amperex 6922) with the TS 5998's in my set up with the hd800's and the brightness is still under control.
> 
> ...




Yes! sky's the limit with tubes! 5998 + amperex 6922's are good too (have a friend using that for his T1). For me bugle boys sounded a bit more pleasant with the hd800.

I have a bad feeling you're right on the preamp function. Wa2's preamp is a bummer! But still hoping I can tune it using different tubes - plan for later. Right now Im pretty happy with the headphone amp. 

metrum hex hmmmm..... been curious about those for quite some time now. my experience with jbl studios is they sound better at least 5 feet apart. middle of the room or at least a foot away ( more if u can) from the walls front and side. start with toe in 30deg forming equilateral triangle from listening spot then adjust out to preference. use a stand (trust me you need it) or your desk will ressonate even if u use mopads. my bro uses iso acoustics and still ressonates on his desk (plus it didnt image well compared to stands). think you can get a pair of those quiklok stands for 60bucks in guitar center. you can adjust the height of the stands too so a lot of flexibility depending on the size of room and desk.

use xlr cables. mogami is great but a bit forward so not sure how that would sound with the metrum. tried the audioquest colorado - expensive and only marginal improvement (or probably just placebo)!! i use emotiva xlrs coz i use the dc1 as DAC. I wouldnt get too hung up on xlr cables as long as its decent. But get a good powerchord for dac and jbls - not those crazy overpriced chords, shunyata venoms for example are decent. i used to frown upon powerchords but was surprised when i tried - you will immediately notice clear/clean sound. 

let me know how the metrum pairs with the jbls!


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Yes! sky's the limit with tubes! 5998 + amperex 6922's are good too (have a friend using that for his T1). For me bugle boys sounded a bit more pleasant with the hd800.
> 
> I have a bad feeling you're right on the preamp function. Wa2's preamp is a bummer! But still hoping I can tune it using different tubes - plan for later. Right now Im pretty happy with the headphone amp.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I'll know in 2 weeks how the jbl set up goes with the hex. 

The hex and wa2 go REALLY well together. Let's say "perfect" fit for me and the hd800. 

Unfortunately I have no room for speaker stands but do have the mopads. In fact mopad on top of mopad. I had two pairs and the extra height is good too. 

Unfortunately my desk size I'll be able, once I figure out where to sit the wa2 exactly, have the jbl's about 3-4feet apart. I'm hoping that's enough because that's all I got.


----------



## babybruno

maheeinfy said:


> not yet..i've been rolling power tubes along with stock driver and rectifier.
> 
> I plan to replace rectifier tubes soon, and see if it gets rid of the hum.
> 
> Did u find any noticeable difference is audio after rolling driver and rectifier tubes




Maheeinfy,

 Did you pull out the stock drivers then reinsert them back in? My hum issue dissapeared after I did that to the stock drivers. I was guessing the pins didnt connect properly when I first inserted them. Same thing happened when I got the bugle boys. I heard an audible hiss after I inserted them so I pulled them out again then switched places left to right. 

I replaced the power first then after a week the drivers. i ordered the rft ez80 coming next week. Ts 5998 + stock driver & rect immediately improved dynamics and clarity. But I felt the soundstage narrowed a bit and the highs bordering harsh. With the 5998 + bugleboys + stock rect, the sounstage widened back and tamed the highs. Will let you know next week if the sound will further improve with the rft ez80. 

For me the stock tubes already sound good. But rolling the power and driver tubes made it sound so much better - addictively better! Just make sure you're rolling the recommended tubes for the type of cans. There is general consensus on this forum about which tube to roll for different types of cans - took out the guesswork and saved a lot of time and $$ in my case. Im not really into fits of constantly rolling hoping to discover the holy grail of tubes. I just feel the sound of the stock tubes can still be improved. I was surprised to hear that much improvement though. Im just glad I rolled earlier than planned otherwise I would not have realized how much more enjoyable this amp can be. Still not happy with the preamp though!!


----------



## thecrow

babybruno
Hi Jay
Managed to tidy up my desk a little to get some gear arranged. I managed to get my jbl's separated with 3 1/2 feet space between them. 

And it's not the ideal setup but one of my jbl's is on its mopad which is on a dac. I'll keep an eye out on the warmth of the dac. I had no other choice. 

Anyway......whilst I'm waiting on the xlr connections I have my dac plugged into the jbl's via RCA. 

Do you know if it's safe to connect a TS connection into the jbl trs jack? I ask as I have an RCA to TS set of interconnects I can use


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> babybruno
> Hi Jay
> Managed to tidy up my desk a little to get some gear arranged. I managed to get my jbl's separated with 3 1/2 feet space between them.
> 
> ...




Hey Peter,

3 1/2 feet should still do it. My bro has the same distance with the iso acoustics. Still sounds great but you lose a bit of the imaging.

I remember using that (rca to jack) before I got the xlrs. Should be fine but didnt really notice any improvement over rcas. Are u getting a hiss on the rcas? If not then just stick to rcas until you get the xlrs.

Jay


----------



## martybu141

I'm trying to figure out how to improve the bass from my WA2. I'm currently using TS5998, EI ez80, and Genelex Gold Lions. It sounds okay but the bass is distorted to the point that I have to use an eq to hide it. I'm looking at a set of bugle boys, does anyone think they would improve bass control? I'm starting to lose hope with the amp...

I listen to classic rock, jazz, 80s nothing that is bass heavy


----------



## thecrow

martybu141 said:


> I'm trying to figure out how to improve the bass from my WA2. I'm currently using TS5998, EI ez80, and Genelex Gold Lions. It sounds okay but the bass is distorted to the point that I have to use an eq to hide it. I'm looking at a set of bugle boys, does anyone think they would improve bass control? I'm starting to lose hope with the amp...
> 
> I listen to classic rock, jazz, 80s nothing that is bass heavy


Bugle boys are slightly warm. A little rolled off on the highs. 

I also have Siemens Cca tubes. They have quite a lot if detail and are extended on BOTH ends. So you'll get more detailed bass (not boomy) and elongated highs. And work good with the ts5998

The other trick that I use is a pair of Bendix 6080 wb slotted graphite tubes. These are hard to come by so just be patient. 
These are a great addition for what you might be after. These are somewhat punchier than the ts5998s and warmer overall it still good level of detail.


----------



## maheeinfy

babybruno said:


> Maheeinfy,
> 
> Did you pull out the stock drivers then reinsert them back in? My hum issue dissapeared after I did that to the stock drivers. I was guessing the pins didnt connect properly when I first inserted them. Same thing happened when I got the bugle boys. I heard an audible hiss after I inserted them so I pulled them out again then switched places left to right.
> 
> ...


 
 Appreciate the response.
  
 Unfortunately swapping driver tubes didn't resolve my hum issue. I cant go past 11' clock on volume, luckily i dont listen to music loud, so it hasn't been much of an issue.
  
 My current stock driver and rectifier with RCA 6AS7G is very enjoyable with T1. How did u like the rft EZ80 tubes? Did they affect the hum in anyway


----------



## Thenewguy007

maheeinfy said:


> Appreciate the response.
> 
> Unfortunately swapping driver tubes didn't resolve my hum issue. I cant go past 11' clock on volume, luckily i dont listen to music loud, so it hasn't been much of an issue.
> 
> My current stock driver and rectifier with RCA 6AS7G is very enjoyable with T1. How did u like the rft EZ80 tubes? Did they affect the hum in anyway


 
  
 If it's not the power, driver or rectifier tubes & a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter on the power cord didn't help either, you can try this
 https://emotiva.com/products/accessories/cmx-2
  
 DC offset could be the problem & this will fix it. I think Emotiva has a return policy, so you can return it to them if it doesn't work, minus the shipping cost.


----------



## Thenewguy007

martybu141 said:


> I'm trying to figure out how to improve the bass from my WA2. I'm currently using TS5998, EI ez80, and Genelex Gold Lions. It sounds okay but the bass is distorted to the point that I have to use an eq to hide it. I'm looking at a set of bugle boys, does anyone think they would improve bass control? I'm starting to lose hope with the amp...
> 
> I listen to classic rock, jazz, 80s nothing that is bass heavy


 
  
 Beside the Bendix 6080 wb slotted graphite tubes mentioned, the GEC 6080 & 6AS7G give more subbass thump than the Tung Sol 5998 as well.


----------



## maheeinfy

thenewguy007 said:


> If it's not the power, driver or rectifier tubes & a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter on the power cord didn't help either, you can try this
> https://emotiva.com/products/accessories/cmx-2
> 
> DC offset could be the problem & this will fix it. I think Emotiva has a return policy, so you can return it to them if it doesn't work, minus the shipping cost.


 
 Thank you. i ll look into it


----------



## babybruno

maheeinfy said:


> Appreciate the response.
> 
> Unfortunately swapping driver tubes didn't resolve my hum issue. I cant go past 11' clock on volume, luckily i dont listen to music loud, so it hasn't been much of an issue.
> 
> My current stock driver and rectifier with RCA 6AS7G is very enjoyable with T1. How did u like the rft EZ80 tubes? Did they affect the hum in anyway


 
 Hey Maheeinfy,
  
 I too can hear a slight hum but only past 1' clock. I think that is normal if using RCA's.
  
 So I got the RFT's 2 weeks ago.  TS5998 + Bugleboy + RFT EZ80 darkened the sound for me.  The mids stood out more but at the expense of losing a bit of the 3d imaging. Using the RFT's, the sparkle and crisp of the highs (which is what I love about the HD800) became a bit recessed and this kinda affected the 3D imaging especially for jazz music. For me, TS5998 + Bugleboy + stock rectifiers is more preferred - perfect harmony of tight bass, warm mids, crisp highs and airy 3d imaging.  Take note however that I listen to mostly jazz music the likes of fourplay, earl klugh, jeff lorber.
 For vocals and instruments, especially piano and strings, replacing the stock with the RFT sounds better.


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> I had a listen to the hd600 again today with the idea of buying it however I didn't buy it.
> 
> It wouldn't get a run with my hd800 around. In fact the hd650 suited me better today than the 600 so I had nothing to buy


 
 Hey Crow,
  
 I got a chance to listen to the HD600. My first impression is that they are very warm and musical.  I like them for rock, pop, vocals due to their warm/full mids but I find the bass to be slow and the highs are rolled off/recessed.  I am actually thinking about getting a pair especially after listening to 80's new wave (depeche mode, duran duran, tears for fears, fra lippo lippi, etc) and rock (bon jovi, nirvana, gnr, pearl jam, metallica, classic jimmy hendrix, etc) - very nostalgic, sounds like I was listening to my dad's cassette tape / vinyl collection. 
  
 But your post got me thinking. What did you like about the 650 vs the 600?  Although the 600's sound good on 80's and rock, my concern with the HD600 is the "veiled" presentation of the highs and the slow / a bit distorted bass.  Felt like I am missing a lot of detail.  But the mids are so musical!!
  
 Did you get a chance to listen to the HE400S?  I read this is the improved version of the HD600.


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Hey Crow,
> 
> I got a chance to listen to the HD600. My first impression is that they are very warm and musical.  I like them for rock, pop, vocals due to their warm/full mids but I find the bass to be slow and the highs are rolled off/recessed.  I am actually thinking about getting a pair especially after listening to 80's new wave (depeche mode, duran duran, tears for fears, fra lippo lippi, etc) and rock (bon jovi, nirvana, gnr, pearl jam, metallica, classic jimmy hendrix, etc) - very nostalgic, sounds like I was listening to my dad's cassette tape / vinyl collection.
> 
> ...


I had acquicknlisren to the he400s a couple weeks of months ago. I remember thinking the mids were pretty nice and they would be an option worth looking at when sussing out headphones if they were able to be auditioned. 

However I REALLY enjoyed the he500's at a local meet recently. They had a fair bit more character and richness and lushness in the mids. However they've been discontinued but you should be able to fall be a good 2nd hand pair for about $400-500 USD. 

the other week when I was looking to buy the hd600 I found that the hd650 had a good bit more detail. And a bit more weight. 

Previously I always leaves to the hd600 as I found them very easy listening and always thought about them like sitting in an old favourite bean bag. 

However the hd650 just trumped them. Not massively but by enough to now no longer consider buying the hd600s as a second open (home) headphone next to my hd800. 

I have the wa2 as my amp. 

At a recent meet I heard the hd650 with my amp and it sounded decent but short of what the hd800 does for me so now have decided to just stay with the hd800 at home. 

If I didn't have the hd800 then I would easily (now) put the 650 ahead of the 600. 

Previously with cheaper amps I have found the hd650 too baddy/warm and that's why I think I've preferred the hd600 previously but with better gear the hd650 has lost that overall warm/dark (and probably what some may call veiled) nature and the overall detail has been more prominent for me. 

I think the amp is crucial for the character that will come out of the hd650. I've felt that more for the hd650 than the hd800. 

By the way it was with the Sony pha3 that I listened to the 600 and 650 the other week that caused me to knock back the 600 even through I went to the store specifically to buy the 600. 

By the way my portable headphones are the focal spirit pros that are fantastically neutral and that have scaled up REALLY well with my Sony pha3. A seriously good headphone for those looking for a neutral sound. 

Hope that helps. And as I mentioned before, if you haven't already looked into it, it might be worth looking for he500's. Great lush mids and overall sound setup and balance.


----------



## babybruno

martybu141 said:


> I'm trying to figure out how to improve the bass from my WA2. I'm currently using TS5998, EI ez80, and Genelex Gold Lions. It sounds okay but the bass is distorted to the point that I have to use an eq to hide it. I'm looking at a set of bugle boys, does anyone think they would improve bass control? I'm starting to lose hope with the amp...
> 
> I listen to classic rock, jazz, 80s nothing that is bass heavy


 

 Hi Marty, ​
  
 What cans are you using with the WA2?  In my case, the HD800 is not ideal for classic rock (any rock music for that matter) and 80's pop / new wave but superb on classic and contemporary jazz, vocals, live, classical, orchestra. HD800 is also not bass heavy (it could actually use a bit more bass for me) but very tight and accurate. For pop, rock, metal, you will need a warmer pair of cans that focus more on the mids to sound great. I was in the same boat as you are a month ago when I was listening to rock / heavy metal music over the HD800's - ouch... harsh and the guitars are way too spaced out (soundstage is too wide).  
  
 Try switching the gold lions to amperex bugle boy or orange globe. Amperex's are more on the warm side and will smoothen the mids and control the bass.  But for me, the biggest improvement in bass was when I rolled from stock power to TS5998. 
  
 I am still auditioning another pair of cans for rock, metal, pop and 80's music - I am looking at HD600/650 and HE400/400s.


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> I had acquicknlisren to the he400s a couple weeks of months ago. I remember thinking the mids were pretty nice and they would be an option worth looking at when sussing out headphones if they were able to be auditioned.
> 
> However I REALLY enjoyed the he500's at a local meet recently. They had a fair bit more character and richness and lushness in the mids. However they've been discontinued but you should be able to fall be a good 2nd hand pair for about $400-500 USD.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the input!  Did you audition the HD600 & HD650 brand new?  My bro's HD600 is a 3 year old pair of cans that he uses everyday at work (overly broken in!).  He said the 600's actually sounded a bit flat when he first bought them brand new but over time, it opened up.  The sound of bon jovi and pearl jam really grabbed me - gosh even Jimmy Hendrix sounded great!  But what really made me miss it now is when we played Stevie Wonder's "lately". My goodness, the timber of the piano and the voice gave me goosebumps paired with my WA2!  I haven't heard the 650's but I read the signature is warmer than the 600's.  I figured if the 600 is already warm and a bit recessed on the highs, then the 650's (which is warmer/darker than the 600) may suppress the highs even more. 
  
 I will take a look at the HE500 as well.  Heck... I believe hifiman offers a 30-day return policy so I might just pull the trigger on both 400S and HE500 (I see one refurbished old model) and audition both. Thanks again!     
 ​
 On different subject... how's your JBL's paired with the Hex?  Gosh... I am soooooo lusting over that hex.  I think its time to retire my Stealth DC-1 and finally see what I am missing - I am still in denial on a DAC upgrade (Ignorance is bliss!!)


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Thanks for the input!  Did you audition the HD600 & HD650 brand new?  My bro's HD600 is a 3 year old pair of cans that he uses everyday at work (overly broken in!).  He said the 600's actually sounded a bit flat when he first bought them brand new but over time, it opened up.  The sound of bon jovi and pearl jam really grabbed me - gosh even Jimmy Hendrix sounded great!  But what really made me miss it now is when we played Stevie Wonder's "lately". My goodness, the timber of the piano and the voice gave me goosebumps paired with my WA2!  I haven't heard the 650's but I read the signature is warmer than the 600's.  I figured if the 600 is already warm and a bit recessed on the highs, then the 650's (which is warmer/darker than the 600) may suppress the highs even more.
> 
> I will take a look at the HE500 as well.  Heck... I believe hifiman offers a 30-day return policy so I might just pull the trigger on both 400S and HE500 (I see one refurbished old model) and audition both. Thanks again!
> 
> ...


I'm guessing the 600 and 650 are perhaps the same demo model that's been at the store for some time. Not sure though how long. 

The 650 is the only one I heard with my wa2 but it didn't sound too warm at all. I have recently read reviews comments on headfi describing the 650 as a neutral headphone slightly rolled off on the highs. I can now understand why they say that having heard it with the wa2. 

I had initially heard it with my fiio x5 and cayin c5 and it had sounded too warm for me so I think it dies scale well. 

BUT next to the hd800 it just lacked that magic. 

I'm happy listening to rock through my wa2 with my hd800's but allowing various tubes to colour it a little. 

I recently bought some Bendix 6080wb slotted graphite tubes (essentially a bit warmer and more punchy) than the ts5988 and I think Amperex 6922's and deep purple's stormbringer album never sounded better. 

When listened to the he500 with my wa2 it lost a bit of naturalness abd clarity when it lushed up the mids but (particularly Santana's "put your lights on") but it was a great rich fun sound. 


re the hex and jbl's it's going well. I'm more open to using the jbl's now as the hex has really opened up everything. The jbl's are mostly sounding the same (re mids, highs, bass) but it's all more spacious now. 

The jbl's are the limiting factor here but for my purposes the hex still delivers the "production" of the recording and the jbl's pass that on pretty nicely in their own handy but humble way. Better monitors would shine further but these are still great value that have really improved after going from a basic interface (focusrite 2i2) to a dac 15x the price. Of course, you'd hope so. 

It keeps teaching me how important a dac is. Dare I say arguably more important than the amp. 
A dac of this calibre just opens up and lays out everything and gives you the music (analogue) and the amp from there will offer the texture, the colour etc. 

I've read here "marry your headphones, date your amp". 
Well I'm married to my hd800
I'm in a serious long term relationship with my wa2
And it's "til death do us part" with my hex. No pre-nups, no nothing. This love is eternal.


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> I'm guessing the 600 and 650 are perhaps the same demo model that's been at the store for some time. Not sure though how long.
> 
> The 650 is the only one I heard with my wa2 but it didn't sound too warm at all. I have recently read reviews comments on headfi describing the 650 as a neutral headphone slightly rolled off on the highs. I can now understand why they say that having heard it with the wa2.
> 
> ...





Thanks Peter! I will try the bendix 6080. Can u let me know where I can those and how much did u get it for? That may be what I need for rock and 80's music. Did u hear a noticeable improvement in timber when using the bendix 6080's? What I'm after is the timber of the HD600/650. If I can get that and still get a bit of the Hd800's top end then I may just stick to that rather than getting a 2nd pair of cans. Thanks!


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Thanks Peter! I will try the bendix 6080. Can u let me know where I can those and how much did u get it for? That may be what I need for rock and 80's music. Did u hear a noticeable improvement in timber when using the bendix 6080's? What I'm after is the timber of the HD600/650. If I can get that and still get a bit of the Hd800's top end then I may just stick to that rather than getting a 2nd pair of cans. Thanks!


This is the pair I was lucky enough to pick up in good condition at a good price. 

http://m.ebay.com/itm/2x-JAN-CEA-6080-WB-Bendix-vintage-tubes-GOOD-Funke-test-headphone-Amps-/201496959974?nav=SEARCH

They are hard to find. So be patient. 

Slotted graphite in it as opposed to solid graphite slabs (or whatever they are called). I've read here that the slotted ones are the preferred ones. 

Not sure if i'd use the word timbre. More on the punchy side. 
I think you said you had the ts5998. They are similar but an extra 15% on the punch. And a little rolled off on the top end. It's not an unbalanced sound. It's like having a centre of gravity (in a physical sense) a little lower in the sound spectrum. 

Detail is still good. 

On the other hand the he560 is a headphone that I use the word timber in its description. 

I've got them in at the moment. 

Feel free to suggest a few classic tracks and I can have a listen.


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Thanks Peter! I will try the bendix 6080. Can u let me know where I can those and how much did u get it for? That may be what I need for rock and 80's music. Did u hear a noticeable improvement in timber when using the bendix 6080's? What I'm after is the timber of the HD600/650. If I can get that and still get a bit of the Hd800's top end then I may just stick to that rather than getting a 2nd pair of cans. Thanks!


 

 Jay
  
 whilst just sitting on the loo and doing my business and some thinking........
  
 (without opening up that whole can of worm discussion of cables) .....perhaps it might be worth looking at a cable specifically the norne draug 2.
  
 there's some big wraps on this cable and this might be along the lines of what you're looking for.
  
 it's around the same price (give or take) as the hd650
  
 here's a review that includes it and these are common descriptions of the cable
  
 http://headmania.org/2014/06/18/aftermarket-cables-for-sennheiser-hd800/
 my reading up, discussing with other members and contacting trevor at norne have it as quite good value (and not the cheapest or most expensive)
  
 mind you there is usually a few month waiting list
  
 and there is is a money back guarantee
  
  
  
 ps i've just put on led zep's remasters album and deep purple's stormbringer (using the bendix tubes siemens cca's which are extended on both ends but very neutral/linear in the mids and upwards and hence NOT warm) and there is some punch (evident by my head bopping) but there may be missing timbre and very much any real grunt that you may be looking for - a bit too clean perhaps
  
 i'll change the cca's later to bugle boys
  
 and send this idea below to woo audio
  
 or perhaps we could trade in our wa2 for this amp:


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> Jay
> 
> whilst just sitting on the loo and doing my business and some thinking........
> 
> ...




Hey Peter,

Not really a fan of cables (have tried a lot but only noticed marginal improvement). But then again, I may not be hearing the nuances because of my inferior DAC. I reckon the analogue sound of the hex brings the Hd800 / wa2 to another level - I am pulling the trigger on the hex!!!

Re: the bendix with led zep, you are spot on (exactly the word I meant to describe the sound I was hearing on rock music), Hd800 is too clean to the point of missing the grunt and the distortion on guitars. I used to play in a band and I recall my guitarist would use a combination of wah-wah, flangers and distortion pedals to tune and add color the sound. That was the sound I was missing. The sound of guitar on rock, most of the time, is meant to be "distorted" but looks like the Hd800 is cleaning it up! I guess I didnt realize my taste is for rock music is kinda "dirty"!! Thanks for pointing that out. I guess now I should be looking for the dirtiest pair of cans I can find for my rock collection! ha!


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Hey Peter,
> 
> Not really a fan of cables (have tried a lot but only noticed marginal improvement). But then again, I may not be hearing the nuances because of my inferior DAC. I reckon the analogue sound of the hex brings the Hd800 / wa2 to another level - I am pulling the trigger on the hex!!!
> 
> Re: the bendix with led zep, you are spot on (exactly the word I meant to describe the sound I was hearing on rock music), Hd800 is too clean to the point of missing the grunt and the distortion on guitars. I used to play in a band and I recall my guitarist would use a combination of wah-wah, flangers and distortion pedals to tune and add color the sound. That was the sound I was missing. The sound of guitar on rock, most of the time, is meant to be "distorted" but looks like the Hd800 is cleaning it up! I guess I didnt realize my taste is for rock music is kinda "dirty"!! Thanks for pointing that out. I guess now I should be looking for the dirtiest pair of cans I can find for my rock collection! ha!


I'm thinking the hd650s will be too clean too. 

I have no idea what headphones you should go to. Sounds like you need more than just bass heavy headphones. 

And the problem with the wa2 is it best serves high impedance cans and that can be limited. 

Let me know what you search/research might show you. I might be tempted down that path as well. 

By the way have you managed to hear the hex?
As it recently has been replaced, more or less, by the menuet (not sure about the spelling) you should see it discounted abut (like 20%). That's also evident on the Metrum acoustics website. 

Also if you email Metrum I have found they respond quite promptly.

And if you do go the hex you have to grab the USB option (best input) and form what ive read the Lundahl transformer upgrade option is a must. 
Here in Australia and some other countries (perhaps the USA) you have no choice, I believe, and you get them (pay for them) automatically. 

And I'm thinking that the wa2 and its silky smooth nature may not get as grunt ish as you'd like. 
If anyone knows any different, please let me know


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> I'm thinking the hd650s will be too clean too.
> 
> I have no idea what headphones you should go to. Sounds like you need more than just bass heavy headphones.
> 
> ...





Yes another headfier here in Texas has the hex paired with the questyle cmr. I brought my wa2 over to audition the combination. Both amps paired well with the hd800 with the cmr punchier and more analytical to my ears compared to the wa2 warmer and a bit more smooth. Im in love with the sound of hex! Will take a look at their website. 

I will audition the Lcd2 this week to see if that would placate my taste for rock. I hear from a friend that the hd800 and lcd2 complement each others strenght and weakness. Lcd2's are also a bit grainy compared to the lcd3 so that grain ("dirt") may be what I am missing for rock. Will keep you posted.


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Yes another headfier here in Texas has the hex paired with the questyle cmr. I brought my wa2 over to audition the combination. Both amps paired well with the hd800 with the cmr punchier and more analytical to my ears compared to the wa2 warmer and a bit more smooth. Im in love with the sound of hex! Will take a look at their website.
> 
> I will audition the Lcd2 this week to see if that would placate my taste for rock. I hear from a friend that the hd800 and lcd2 complement each others strenght and weakness. Lcd2's are also a bit grainy compared to the lcd3 so that grain ("dirt") may be what I am missing for rock. Will keep you posted.


Definitely let me know how the lcd2 goes. Curious about that one. There's mixed reports here. I get the sense it works with the wa2. it's not the ideal couple but it's still decent.

I'm glad you had a chance to hear the hex. I hope with the USB input. I believe and have been told my Metrum as well that it's definitely the input that shines the best


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> Definitely let me know how the lcd2 goes. Curious about that one. There's mixed reports here. I get the sense it works with the wa2. it's not the ideal couple but it's still decent.
> 
> I'm glad you had a chance to hear the hex. I hope with the USB input. I believe and have been told my Metrum as well that it's definitely the input that shines the best




I know but then the mixed reviews may be due to the genre. Im begining to realize that different cans appeal to different types of music and that there may be no single headphone that can truly have all the attributes to create that "magic" for all types of music. Ofcourse I say this with my limited exposure on cans - havent heard hifimans flagship and will not even dare listen to electrostatics (price prohibitive). This is both the fun and frustration of this hobby!! I will most likely resort to keeping my hd800 (ofcourse!!) for most of my music then get 2 more pairs - one that will creat the "magic" just for rock and one good enough musically (but not great) for all types of music. 

yeah the hex is a significant step up compared with my Dc-1. I have both the audioquest cobra and diamond usb cables. i wouldnt trade it even for a cardass rca or optical interconnect on any DAC. I know I will be happy with it considering I was shooting for the vega or the chord hugo - i think their price tag will not give me twice the improvement over the hex. if they do, then i'd say "ignorance is bliss".


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> I know but then the mixed reviews may be due to the genre. Im begining to realize that different cans appeal to different types of music and that there may be no single headphone that can truly have all the attributes to create that "magic" for all types of music. Ofcourse I say this with my limited exposure on cans - havent heard hifimans flagship and will not even dare listen to electrostatics (price prohibitive). This is both the fun and frustration of this hobby!! I will most likely resort to keeping my hd800 (ofcourse!!) for most of my music then get 2 more pairs - one that will creat the "magic" just for rock and one good enough musically (but not great) for all types of music.
> 
> yeah the hex is a significant step up compared with my Dc-1. I have both the audioquest cobra and diamond usb cables. i wouldnt trade it even for a cardass rca or optical interconnect on any DAC. I know I will be happy with it considering I was shooting for the vega or the chord hugo - i think their price tag will not give me twice the improvement over the hex. if they do, then i'd say "ignorance is bliss".


I never heard it but my research suggested the vega and hex are both pretty similar. Maybe the vega a touch better. But the vega is a little more on the clinical/analytical (I use that term loosely) style and the hex softer/more musical. But both have elements of both characteristics going on but a slightly different mix/approach/flavour. 

And I believe both have great separation, separation and all that business


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> I will most likely resort to keeping my hd800 (ofcourse!!) for most of my music then get 2 more pairs - one that will creat the "magic" just for rock and one good enough musically (but not great) for all types of music.


 
 Jay
  
 after doing more reading on cable options (which I've ben doing quite a bit of in recent weeks) and headphone options after our messages today, i noticed that i forgot about and have come back to my overall favourite tubes - the gec 6as7g
  
 clarity is somewhere between very very good and exceptional and extension on both ends is very good too. i just use the appropriate driver tube to tweak what i want done with the highs.
  
 now with the extension on the bottom end this definitely has depth and detail, and some level of timbre FOR THE HD800 for rock music.
  
 this was strongly recommended to me when i bought the wa2 and overall they are distinctly better than any other power tube i've heard. 
  
 not cheap though - up to about $500 USD or so per pair but sometimes you can pick them up cheaper as recently a member here sold them on ebay for almost 1/2 the price.
  
 I can't recommend these strongly enough. even if you get a pair not NOS but say at 75-85%. don't forget these tubes can last 5000+ hours
  
 these may look after one of your additional headphone purchases and could well look after a rock music preference. as well as all other more "serious" listening.
  
 great detail but not harsh at all.
 solid sounding that has weight and class
  
 i would consider my dac (hex) being a luxury and indulgence and a box full of magical riches but i would put these tubes ahead of it (and ahead of buying any other hedphone) in terms of necessity for what i bought the hd800's for - detail and clarity and analytical/serious listeneing, if that makes sense. and you'll never be too hard pressed to sell them if you ever chose to
  
 i have two pairs - one working perfectly fine and the other pair with sometimes a very slight hum that i can hear when there is no music playing (bought cheap from a member of another site) 
  
 hope that helps
  
 feel free to contact me even by pm if you need any info on these


----------



## Thenewguy007

babybruno said:


> yeah the hex is a significant step up compared with my Dc-1. I have both the audioquest cobra and diamond usb cables. i wouldnt trade it even for a cardass rca or optical interconnect on any DAC.


 
  
 Isn't optical better than USB when using DAC? I read a few arguments for & against, but never got a solid answer.


----------



## babybruno

thenewguy007 said:


> Isn't optical better than USB when using DAC? I read a few arguments for & against, but never got a solid answer.




Tried it with my dc-1 and Da8 (both coaxial and optical). To me usb is superior. I just listened to the hex last week and same impression. My friend uses coaxial with his hex. His soundcard supports both coaxial and optical and to him coaxial is better than optical. But when we tried my usb cables, he immediately noticed cleaner sound out of the hex vs his coaxial. I guess it depends on your DAC if it supports asynchronous connection. A good Usb cable is also recommended. Tried the regular computer USB cable before to test - my conclusion... better Usb cables are necessary. Its not night and day but you will notice cleaner sound (grain free I would say).


----------



## thecrow

thenewguy007 said:


> Isn't optical better than USB when using DAC? I read a few arguments for & against, but never got a solid answer.


I read something like that on the mojo thread. This is past my level of knowledge but those that talk about optical's benefits I think are looking at noise floor and/or interference from external sources. 

And maybe the USB depends on its application and like babybruno said asynchronous connection 

The hex uses amanero USB and others that have heard it, as well as metrum acoustics themselves and reviewers highlight how much better the USB is.


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> Definitely let me know how the lcd2 goes. Curious about that one. There's mixed reports here. I get the sense it works with the wa2. it's not the ideal couple but it's still decent.
> 
> I'm glad you had a chance to hear the hex. I hope with the USB input. I believe and have been told my Metrum as well that it's definitely the input that shines the best


 

 Hey Peter,
  
 So I did something crazy today and bought a pair of HD600's (couldn't help it - I am so missing that sound).  Right out of the box, I may now understand what you may have heard while auditioning this at the store.  This is soooo not the sound coming out of my bro's 3yr old pair.  This new pair is unengaging and not very musical at all!  Bass is muddy, mids are grainy, the highs are bordering sibilant and the soundstage is narrow - feels like a closed headphone.  I believe this pair of cans will need a major break-in to warm and open up (probably 200hrs or more to realize its full potentials). I agree I would have returned this immediately after only minutes of listening.  But knowing how this pair will sound after being fully broken-in, I will be patient with it.


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Hey Peter,
> 
> So I did something crazy today and bought a pair of HD600's (couldn't help it - I am so missing that sound).  Right out of the box, I may now understand what you may have heard while auditioning this at the store.  This is soooo not the sound coming out of my bro's 3yr old pair.  This new pair is unengaging and not very musical at all!  Bass is muddy, mids are grainy, the highs are bordering sibilant and the soundstage is narrow - feels like a closed headphone.  I believe this pair of cans will need a major break-in to warm and open up (probably 200hrs or more to realize its full potentials). I agree I would have returned this immediately after only minutes of listening.  But knowing how this pair will sound after being fully broken-in, I will be patient with it.


And it won't be hard selling it if you choose to


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> And it won't be hard selling it if you choose to


 
  
 I believe so.  Anyway this badboy will be tamed with brown, pink and white noise (all the colors I can think of) until it starts behaving!! 
  
 Going back to 6AS7G, I've had my eye on that too. I was just thinking how much better would it be if TS5998 has already blown me away!  Anything more than would probably be tantric bliss - I don't think my heart can handle that!!  Seriously, bottom extension, more depth and timbre - sounds like "rock" solid signature! I will try before pulling the trigger on the hex.  Speaking of timbre, my new HD600's timbre is lackluster -  not the same as my bro's 3yr old pair. I bought this pair just for that... patience....patience.


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> I believe so.  Anyway this badboy will be tamed with brown, pink and white noise (all the colors I can think of) until it starts behaving!!
> 
> Going back to 6AS7G, I've had my eye on that too. I was just thinking how much better would it be if TS5998 has already blown me away!  Anything more than would probably be tantric bliss - I don't think my heart can handle that!!  Seriously, bottom extension, more depth and timbre - sounds like "rock" solid signature! I will try before pulling the trigger on the hex.  Speaking of timbre, my new HD600's timbre is lackluster -  not the same as my bro's 3yr old pair. I bought this pair just for that... patience....patience.


To quote a member here who knows their tubes and who helped me a lot in info on the wa2 and tubes:

" GEC 6AS7G or TS 5998. the 5998 is punchy,, warm, balanced, great for HD 800, but the GEC has crazy synergy with HD 800 and gives it big soundstage, more transparent, alot more detail and air, more euphony, and tone and its just a crazy good tube, scales alot with HD 800, its leaner on bass than 5998 and less powerful , u notice it more on other headphones, but its the absolute best with hd 800, the combination is just really good but the GEC's do cost quite a bit and are hard to fine. "

I see the relationship/comparison of the Gec to the tungsol being very similar in nature, detail and price (unfortunately) to that of the hd800 v hd650. And like the hd800, I think the Gec is worth the extra price for what I get out if it. And would easily do it again. Luckily these tubes (should) last a long long time. 

Having heard the Gec tubes and for my preferences that are a no brainer and I'll cop the price (but look for a bargain)


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> I read something like that on the mojo thread. This is past my level of knowledge but those that talk about optical's benefits I think are looking at noise floor and/or interference from external sources.
> 
> And maybe the USB depends on its application and like babybruno said asynchronous connection
> 
> The hex uses amanero USB and others that have heard it, as well as metrum acoustics themselves and reviewers highlight how much better the USB is.​


 
  
 Not to mention what I read about USB Regen (you can google it from Uptone Audio).  To me, I think its overkill. How many interconnects do we really need to get the best out of digital music? Not to mention what kind? Are bits truly just bits?  My view is less cable/wire/interconnect is better (shortest signal path). I also used to think coaxial < optical < rca, but hard to say these days with different technologies now being applied to DACs as well as cable manufacturing.  In the end, I believe it all comes down to preference.


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Not to mention what I read about USB Regen (you can google it from Uptone Audio).  To me, I think its overkill. How many interconnects do we really need to get the best out of digital music? Not to mention what kind? Are bits truly just bits?  My view is less cable/wire/interconnect is better (shortest signal path). I also used to think coaxial < optical < rca, but hard to say these days with different technologies now being applied to DACs as well as cable manufacturing.  In the end, I believe it all comes down to preference.


there can definitely be overkill and even to the point where these items can hamper the quality coming out fbthe entire chain. It can be a bit crazy with all these elements n a chain. 

At a recent meet here the distributor of iFi audio products was saying their purifier MIGHT work/help (or maybe not) on one's system but generally not as beneficial on an apple laptop/Mac due to the quality of their hardware and the less noise that is there.


----------



## babybruno

Peter et al,
  
 Going back to WA2, do you hear a hum on your unit even when the source is turned-off"  I hear a distinct hum + microphonics on the WA2 thru the HD800 even when my DAC is turned off starting from around 1'clock and gets louder when volume is maxed out.  BUT, when I pull out the RCA's the hum disappears completely even when volume is maxed out.  Do you hear the same on your amps?


----------



## babybruno

thecrow said:


> Definitely let me know how the lcd2 goes. Curious about that one. There's mixed reports here. I get the sense it works with the wa2. it's not the ideal couple but it's still decent.
> 
> I'm glad you had a chance to hear the hex. I hope with the USB input. I believe and have been told my Metrum as well that it's definitely the input that shines the best


 

 Hey Peter,
  
 I just auditioned both LCD2 and LCD3.  I can understand now why most people would think LCD2 may not be a good match for the WA2.  These cans are dark - actually too dark even for my taste.  On the other hand, the LCD3 truly is a significant step up in everything:  extended on both ends, more slam, bass is accurate, tight and punchy, mids are rich and full (clear & clean), slightly wider soundstage, more air compared to the LCD2 which I find a bit closed off.  To me, this is the perfect complement for the HD800's lack of grunt for rock music. 
  
 Never really paid attention to Audeze's because of comments about their "dark" signature.  I agree for the LCD2 but the LCD3 is in another level.  Just glad I did.   The question is would it be a good pair with the WA2?  If not then I am willing to get another matching amp because I really need to have these cans.
  
 One more thing, I also auditioned the T1's.  These are very sweet pair of cans.  I would think they are in the middle of HD800 and HD600/650.  If I were to have 3 pairs of cans, it would be HD800, LCD3 and T1 (T1 being the middle ground).  I had fun auditioning today.


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Hey Peter,
> 
> I just auditioned both LCD2 and LCD3.  I can understand now why most people would think LCD2 may not be a good match for the WA2.  These cans are dark - actually too dark even for my taste.  On the other hand, the LCD3 truly is a significant step up in everything:  extended on both ends, more slam, bass is accurate, tight and punchy, mids are rich and full (clear & clean), slightly wider soundstage, more air compared to the LCD2 which I find a bit closed off.  To me, this is the perfect complement for the HD800's lack of grunt for rock music.
> 
> ...


oh oh. 

If you find you need an amp but want something under $1k you could sus out Burson audio including the soloist amp (nit soloist sl) that's just been discontinued so probably going for about $700. That might work but you may want better. 

And if you've got funds then definitely look for decent Gec 6as7g. 

I haven't had a chance to answer your previous question re hum. I shall soon when I get a chance.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

babybruno said:


> Peter et al,
> 
> Going back to WA2, do you hear a hum on your unit even when the source is turned-off"  I hear a distinct hum + microphonics on the WA2 thru the HD800 even when my DAC is turned off starting from around 1'clock and gets louder when volume is maxed out.  *BUT, when I pull out the RCA's the hum disappears completely even when volume is maxed out*.  Do you hear the same on your amps?


 
  
 Try a different high quality audio cables or a ground lift adapter. Hum is not coming from your WA2.
  
 http://amzn.to/1S6fXCs


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Peter et al,
> 
> Going back to WA2, do you hear a hum on your unit even when the source is turned-off"  I hear a distinct hum + microphonics on the WA2 thru the HD800 even when my DAC is turned off starting from around 1'clock and gets louder when volume is maxed out.  BUT, when I pull out the RCA's the hum disappears completely even when volume is maxed out.  Do you hear the same on your amps?


 

 yes. with the tubes i have in there at the moment there is that very slight hum. so slight that it's not in the way for me and doesn't give me any annoyance. and like your finding it only completely goes quite once the interconnects are unplugged
  
 there's no other noise or microphonics (as i understand the term) but i had that issue with a couple of expensive tubes that i returned - ie i tapped the amp and it would come into the HP's through the tubes. i've even had some second hand tubes that i bought that had a little bit of "pinging" going on when i would first turn on the amp for the first 15 minutes. but after i used the tubes for a couple of weeks or so they hardly ping at all - maybe a few pings for 3 minutes whilst warming up. and i'm talking about a slight ping very 30/45 seconds.


----------



## martybu141

Could the issues I'm experiencing with bass be due to how these Tung sol 5998s tested? their numbers seem really low compared to others I am seeing on the Internet.


----------



## ru4music

martybu141 said:


> Could the issues I'm experiencing with bass be due to how these Tung sol 5998s tested? their numbers seem really low compared to others I am seeing on the Internet.


 
  
 It's hard to tell as I can't make out all the data from the pictures, and the data will be some what relative to the tube tester used.  You'll need to email your seller to interpret the results.  The documented tube data for the TS5998 shows around
 15,000 uMHOs (Transconductance ) per plate, but the bottom tube in the picture doesn't look to show that.


----------



## ClintonL

I've been offered a 3 year old WA2 second hand for only a couple hundred cheaper than a wa7. Does the WA2 sound better than the wa7?

 Cheers


----------



## HiFiGuy528

clintonl said:


> I've been offered a 3 year old WA2 second hand for only a couple hundred cheaper than a wa7. Does the WA2 sound better than the wa7?
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 They are completely different design. WA2 is OTL while WA7 is transformer-coupled. If you have or plan to have headphones under 100 Ohms, go with WA7.


----------



## thecrow

babybruno said:


> Hey Peter,
> 
> I just auditioned both LCD2 and LCD3.  I can understand now why most people would think LCD2 may not be a good match for the WA2.  These cans are dark - actually too dark even for my taste.  On the other hand, the LCD3 truly is a significant step up in everything:  extended on both ends, more slam, bass is accurate, tight and punchy, mids are rich and full (clear & clean), slightly wider soundstage, more air compared to the LCD2 which I find a bit closed off.  To me, this is the perfect complement for the HD800's lack of grunt for rock music.
> 
> ...



Hi
Any update on your set up and or headphones auditioned with the wa2?


----------



## billerb1

Have a NOS pair of Tung Sol 7236's in the For Sale Forum. They were my backup pair and are unused other than to test.
No noise...dead quiet.
$95 plus $12 for USPS Priority shipping. CONUS only. I'll eat the Paypal fee.
PM me if interested.

****SOLD****


----------



## StanT

babybruno said:


> One more thing, I also auditioned the T1's.  These are very sweet pair of cans.  I would think they are in the middle of HD800 and HD600/650.  If I were to have 3 pairs of cans, it would be HD800, LCD3 and T1 (T1 being the middle ground).  I had fun auditioning today.


 
 I didn't care much for the HD800 and kept my 650s, instead. The 650s and T1s sound amazing with the WA2, there is a synergy between tubes and the higher impedance cans that never fails to impress me. My LCD-3s sound better with a solid state amp, a Schiit Ragnarok in my case. It's not that LCD-3s sound bad on a WA2, it's just that there are better matches for both. If you are going to spend 4 figures on amps and headphones, get stuff that likes each other.
  
 I listen to my LCD-3s on the Ragnarok, T1s on the WA2, and use the HD650s occasionally.
  
 I spent a lot of time chasing hum on my WA2. Shielded cables and isolated grounds fixed it for me.
  
 GEC 6AS7G are insanely expensive, right now. I feel guilty using mine; but I'll get over it. 5998s have better price/performance; but the GECs are special. It's hard to describe; but there is a delicacy to the sound that you won't hear with any other tube.


----------



## billerb1

+1 on the GEC 6AS7G's. My thoughts exactly.

Edit - Anyone have an idea on the number of hours you can expect out of the GEC 6AS7G's ? Are they a 5000 hour tube ?


----------



## thecrow

billerb1 said:


> +1 on the GEC 6AS7G's. My thoughts exactly



+2 - BIG TIME!!!


----------



## billerb1

Unloading my flotilla of EZ80's and will give first shot to the good people on this thread before I post them in the For Sale Forum.
 All were supposedly NOS or near NOS when I bought them and I've put no more than 100 hours on any of these pairs.  I have no tester to verify.  I'll sell the pairs for the price posted here plus $12 for USPS Priority shipping.  I'll eat the Paypal fee.
 Here's the list.  I'll mark them as SOLD as it happens.  All are EZ80's.
  
 NEW JUST-REDUCED PRICES (per pair):
 Philips/Amperex (Holland) D-Getters   $39
 Lorenz D-Getters (not SEL's)  $29
 Brimar D-Getters   $60   ***SOLD***
 RFT  O-Getters     $29 
 Rogers D-Getters  $29
 EI  O-Getters        $29
  
 PM ME IF INTERESTED.  CONUS ONLY.


----------



## Lucifigus

My new WA2 arrived today.  In anticipation of this, I have also picked up a pair of Beyerdynamic T1s (2nd Gen).  The T1s were chosen after reading many posts here at Head-Fi, which suggested great synergy with this pairing.  I do note however, that the pre-amp function of the WA2 is no longer part of the device.  I had not encountered that information anywhere in the discussions, but I may have missed it.  It is stated on the Woo Audio website.  It is a little disappointing, but headphones are my primary listening output so it’s not a big deal for me.
  
 My initial experience with stock tubes is that the amp is perfectly quiet and tames some of the crispness of the highs in the T1s, which is only to be expected.  I have ordered a number of tubes to upgrade from the stock tubes and I patiently await their arrival and testing.  Overall, I am a very happy guy.  I may need a bib to keep the drool from staining my shirts.
  
 Remember, it’s all about the music!
  
 Lucifigus


----------



## ru4music

lucifigus said:


> My new WA2 arrived today.  In anticipation of this, I have also picked up a pair of Beyerdynamic T1s (2nd Gen).  The T1s were chosen after reading many posts here at Head-Fi, which suggested great synergy with this pairing.  I do note however, that the pre-amp function of the WA2 is no longer part of the device.  I had not encountered that information anywhere in the discussions, but I may have missed it.  It is stated on the Woo Audio website.  It is a little disappointing, but headphones are my primary listening output so it’s not a big deal for me.
> 
> My initial experience with stock tubes is that the amp is perfectly quiet and tames some of the crispness of the highs in the T1s, which is only to be expected.  I have ordered a number of tubes to upgrade from the stock tubes and I patiently await their arrival and testing.  Overall, I am a very happy guy.  I may need a bib to keep the drool from staining my shirts.
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome to the WA2 club!  Sorry to hear about the pre-amp outs not being part of the standard build anymore but I don't believe you'll miss them at all.  As far as the WA2, I think the unit is under-rated overall even within the Woo line.  The unit is very capable of producing audiophile and reference class presentations,and as you mentioned, is dead-quiet on the noise.  You'll need to get acquainted with the stock tubes first and let the unit burn in.  Once you start to tweak the system you will be rewarded with exceptional sound tailored to your particular tastes.


----------



## earthpeople

lucifigus said:


> I do note however, that the pre-amp function of the WA2 is no longer part of the device.  I had not encountered that information anywhere in the discussions, but I may have missed it.  It is stated on the Woo Audio website.  It is a little disappointing, but headphones are my primary listening output so it’s not a big deal for me.


 
  
  
 I just checked the website and noticed it doesn't mention pre-amp anymore (except for one of the quoted reviews), and the picture showing the rear of the WA2 has in the caption "pre amp output (discontinued)", so it must have been changed at some point between your order and now.
  
 Interesting that they removed it though -- I imagine that most users don't use the amp for it's pre-amp ability, but I always thought it was a nice bonus to have. Is it just empty where the output used to be?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

earthpeople said:


> I just checked the website and noticed it doesn't mention pre-amp anymore (except for one of the quoted reviews), and the picture showing the rear of the WA2 has in the caption "pre amp output (discontinued)", so it must have been changed at some point between your order and now.
> 
> Interesting that they removed it though -- I imagine that most users don't use the amp for it's pre-amp ability, but I always thought it was a nice bonus to have. Is it just empty where the output used to be?


 
  
 Correct, the PRE output was recently deleted from WA2. We are working on a much improved dedicated preamplifier. Stay tuned in 2017.


----------



## Franatic

hifiguy528 said:


> Correct, the PRE output was recently deleted from WA2. We are working on a much improved dedicated preamplifier. Stay tuned in 2017.


 
 That's a shame for new owners of the WA2 that the preamp output was deleted. It was one of the main reasons I bought the WA2 in the first place. With the killer tube upgrades I have, the preamp function is outstanding.
  
 I never like to see a product take a backward step.....the WA2 lost capability and value. I love my dual function WA2.  If I was buying today, I would search high and low for a used model with preamp capability.


----------



## micheleporfido7

Maybe lot of people doesn't care about the preamp function, i thought it was good and i'd buy it for that, too.


----------



## zeroduke

Sorry to hear WA2 has lost the pre-out.  Thou I use it as a headphone amp, the pre-out is linked to a PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium power amp.      And it works wonderfully.


----------



## Franatic

zeroduke said:


> Sorry to hear WA2 has lost the pre-out.  Thou I use it as a headphone amp, the pre-out is linked to a PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium power amp.      And it works wonderfully.


 
 It looks like Audio Advisor still has the WA2 with the preamp output. If anyone is interested, I would recommend getting it while there are still a few around.
 http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=WAWA2


----------



## eschell27

Wowsers. Search this thread for "Gumby" or "gungnir" and get no results. HeHe.
  
 Just upgraded my dac from dac-19 10th AE to Gumby and i gotta say its making me much happier with bass from the WA2 / T1 gen1 combo. After having my WA2 for awhile and finally getting tubes i like dialed in, i was thinking the bass was a big bloomy and loose but now i think it was mainly coming from the dac-19 / PCM1704. 
  
 Anyone else using their WA2 with a Gumby or yggy? If so which tubes have you found to your liking and which HP's are you using?


----------



## Flisker

Hey guys,
  
   I have had WA2 for quite some time and I love it. Unfortunately it seems that my power tubes are dying, since I'm getting some ringing which comes and goes and is extremely irritating* so I'm looking for a replacement. Could you guys share some tips with me please *?
  
 ps: Right now, I've got 2399 Tung Sol/Chathams which from my research should be similar as 5998's. and for driver tubes I'm using Siemens CCa's which are absolutely wonderful.
  
 Thanks a lot, Flisker o/


----------



## thecrow

flisker said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have had WA2 for quite some time and I love it. Unfortunately it seems that my power tubes are dying, since I'm getting some ringing which comes and goes and is extremely irritating* so I'm looking for a replacement. Could you guys share some tips with me please *?
> 
> ...


For me and my preferences the gec 6as7g is all I need

I have the Tung sol 5998 and bendix wb6080 and a couple of less expensive ones but IF you enjoy detail in your music the the gec6as7g tubes are it

Extension on both ends is great. Great dynamics and detail retrieval. 

I roll quite a few driver tubes but the gec's are it!!
I do sometimes put some others in when just comparing and the Tung solos are good, but for me the gec is at another level. 

I enjoy using these and rolling my driver tubes for different sound character. 

They are not cheap however I have found a few relatively cheap even though they may not be perfectly matched and I have had NO problem with them. One of mine does sometimes have a slightly audible hum when no music is played but I'm not fussed by that considering I picked it up for less than half the price that better tubes would be. 

This is all for me and my hd800. So totally YMMV


----------



## Flisker

thecrow said:


> For me and my preferences the gec 6as7g is all I need
> 
> I have the Tung sol 5998 and bendix wb6080 and a couple of less expensive ones but IF you enjoy detail in your music the the gec6as7g tubes are it
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi, 
  
   thanks for fast reply! Yes I really enjoy detail that's why I like CCa's as driver tubes, but "GEC 6AS7G", is it this tube : http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-6AS7G-Curved-Brown-Base-NIB-/232263614738?hash=item3613fd8112:g:5gsAAOSwImRYclFG ?
  
 It's seriously expensive, too much for my wallet :- ( right now.
  
 Is there some solid mainstream power tube that is more affordable and still has nice detail ?
  
 What about something like this : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-5998A-6AS7-421-NOS-GE-USA-Valve-Tubes-/112147940604?hash=item1a1c89c4fc:g:qrgAAOSwNRdX5xf5 ?


----------



## thecrow

flisker said:


> Hi,
> 
> thanks for fast reply! Yes I really enjoy detail that's why I like CCa's as driver tubes, but "GEC 6AS7G", is it this tube : http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEC-6AS7G-Curved-Brown-Base-NIB-/232263614738?hash=item3613fd8112:g:5gsAAOSwImRYclFG ?
> 
> ...


i understand that. 

From what uve heard and read i'd stay with the chathams or tung sol 5998 which i believe are the same or pretty muxh the same. These have good detail again and good punch. 

But others here will have other preferences.


----------



## StanT

flisker said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have had WA2 for quite some time and I love it. Unfortunately it seems that my power tubes are dying, since I'm getting some ringing which comes and goes and is extremely irritating* so I'm looking for a replacement. Could you guys share some tips with me please *?
> 
> ...


 
 I'm also a fan of the GEC 6AS7G, I bought a few pairs several years ago and almost feel guilty for using them (I'll get over it).
  
 In my opinion, 5998/2399 are the best bang for the buck. They are also stupidly priced; but seem a bargain compared to the GEC.
  
 5998A aren't anything at all like a 5998. They will work, you won't like them. 7236 are a nice sounding, lower priced option (sometimes). I prefer Tung-Sol, others like Sylvania.


----------



## Flisker

stant said:


> I'm also a fan of the GEC 6AS7G, I bought a few pairs several years ago and almost feel guilty for using them (I'll get over it).
> 
> In my opinion, 5998/2399 are the best bang for the buck. They are also stupidly priced; but seem a bargain compared to the GEC.
> 
> 5998A aren't anything at all like a 5998. They will work, you won't like them. 7236 are a nice sounding, lower priced option (sometimes). I prefer Tung-Sol, others like Sylvania.


 
  
 I have Sylvania 7236, but those are also dying  (got them with amp) , they are not as pleasant as Tung-Sol 2399 from short listening test.
  
 Would you have some tip on where to get 5998/2399's for decent price ? There is not much of them on ebay and if there are some, it's pretty expensive (400$ what the ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-TUNG-SOL-TYPE-5998-VACUUM-TUBE-NOS-1967-DATED-421A-/222429101711?hash=item33c9cebe8f:gJ8AAOSwSzdXCm1A)


----------



## thecrow

La





flisker said:


> I have Sylvania 7236, but those are also dying  (got them with amp) , they are not as pleasant as Tung-Sol 2399 from short listening test.
> 
> Would you have some tip on where to get 5998/2399's for decent price ? There is not much of them on ebay and if there are some, it's pretty expensive (400$ what the ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-TUNG-SOL-TYPE-5998-VACUUM-TUBE-NOS-1967-DATED-421A-/222429101711?hash=item33c9cebe8f:gJ8AAOSwSzdXCm1A)


Last time i checkeed, about a year ago, im thinking yiu could get a decent pair of ta5998 for about $250USD (or close to) with a little patience. 9-12 months ago that is


----------



## Flisker

thecrow said:


> La
> Last time i checkeed, about a year ago, im thinking yiu could get a decent pair of ta5998 for about $250USD (or close to) with a little patience. 9-12 months ago that is


 
  
 Ok, thanks for the number


----------



## MIKELAP

Hey guys i have some lightly used Rectifiers for your WA2 I sold mine so selling my tubes  here's a link to the ad if interested   .Thanks                                                                                                      http://www.head-fi.org/t/840041/wa2-rectifiers-telefunken-ez80-rft-ez80-and-ez81-ects


----------



## koven

im thinking of swapping my TS 7236 for TS 5998, any thoughts on if its worth it?


----------



## thecrow

koven said:


> im thinking of swapping my TS 7236 for TS 5998, any thoughts on if its worth it?


I have not heard the ts7236
The 5998 is punchy, pretty dynamic, lively and goid level of detail. 

I woudl think that would generally work well with the hd600 that i think you have. Or the hd650. 

Ive found over the last few years that the general concensus here on tubes is usually around the mark. And the gec 6as7g is considered (and is easily) the most detailed tube with great extension and them comes the we421a/ts5998. 

And them a bit of a gap (re detail and clarity) to others

What the ts7236 offers (perhaps warmth) i can't help with personal experience


----------



## webegrubbin

koven said:


> im thinking of swapping my TS 7236 for TS 5998, any thoughts on if its worth it?


from my personal experience, I liked the 7236 more than 5998  with the HD650.  With HD800, I liked the 5998 more


----------



## StanT

webegrubbin said:


> from my personal experience, I liked the 7236 more than 5998  with the HD650.  With HD800, I liked the 5998 more


I also preferred the TS7236 with HD650s (I didn't care for Sylvania 7236s). With Beyer T1s, I preferred the 5998.


----------



## billerb1

If you're looking to try the TS7236's on the cheap, these might be a steal...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-TUN...372768?hash=item4408150a60:g:reAAAOSwXQZZdRTD


----------



## thecrow

can anyone shed some light?

i keep reading that the wa2 (otl) amp can't run the lcd2 (most of the time it's negative).

what i can't figure out is that i don't hear any issues at all

at 1/2 volume (12 o'clock) it's a decent volume level, at 2pm it's very loud

why do i have no issues but MOST postings on headfi dismiss the amp to drive it?

i did read somewhere that planars aren't as power hungry as dynamic headphones - is that it

thanks


----------



## ardilla

thecrow said:


> can anyone shed some light?
> 
> i keep reading that the wa2 (otl) amp can't run the lcd2 (most of the time it's negative).
> 
> ...



It's about the damping factor/impedance matching, not power. The LCD-2 will typically sound less bright and with looser bass than with a better suited amplifier. But planars are less affected than many of the low impedance dynamic headphones. And you even might like the result, but the sound definitely gets colored


----------



## StanT

To my understanding, it is about an impedance mismatch, rather than volume.

I use LCD-3s; but they sound much better on my Ragnarok, than on my WA2. My 600 ohm T1s sound better on the WA2. It's a matter of clarity for the LCD-3s.

I use and like both pairs.


----------



## thecrow

ardilla said:


> It's about the damping factor/impedance matching, not power. The LCD-2 will typically sound less bright and with looser bass than with a better suited amplifier. But planars are less affected than many of the low impedance dynamic headphones. And you even might like the result, but the sound definitely gets colored


luckily (for me) it doesn't get too coloured (particularly not a bloomy bass) and i guess 70 ohms isn't too low

can you describe to semi-layman (me) why planars don't get as affected?

(i demoed the burson conductor v2 + today and i think by hearing the wa2 again I may have save my self a few bucks not needing the burson amp. Unless of course that may come back into the equation when my elear arrives in a week as i did demo that breifly with the wa2 and that (from memory) was too bloomy)


----------



## thecrow

StanT said:


> To my understanding, it is about an impedance mismatch, rather than volume.
> 
> I use LCD-3s; but they sound much better on my Ragnarok, than on my WA2. My 600 ohm T1s sound better on the WA2. It's a matter of clarity for the LCD-3s.
> 
> I use and like both pairs.


i can see how that lcd 3 might sound better on the rag, but i think lcd 2 and wa2 don't get enough respect as a very good (but understandably not ideal combo

i am also using the gec 6as7g power tubes that perhaps help hold it together


----------



## ardilla (Oct 7, 2017)

thecrow said:


> luckily (for me) it doesn't get too coloured (particularly not a bloomy bass) and i guess 70 ohms isn't too low
> 
> *can you describe to semi-layman (me) why planars don't get as affected?*
> 
> (i demoed the burson conductor v2 + today and i think by hearing the wa2 again I may have save my self a few bucks not needing the burson amp. Unless of course that may come back into the equation when my elear arrives in a week as i did demo that breifly with the wa2 and that (from memory) was too bloomy)



I recommend reading up on impedance over at innerfidelity here: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance, and on planars, here: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/how-planar-magnetic-headphones-work

Here's a relevant quote about planars and amps
_



*Easy on the Amplifier* --- Unlike the coiled winding of a dynamic driver, which creates inductive peaks in the impedance characteristics of the headphone, current planar magnetic headphones use a serpentine pattern for their voice coil, which makes their impedance characteristics almost purely resistive. Though they sometimes need quite a bit of voltage to drive them, they are not difficult loads to drive at all.
Read more at https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/how-planar-magnetic-headphones-work-page-2#piwihO2ptJtQBD3w.99

Click to expand...

_
_


thecrow said:



			i can see how that lcd 3 might sound better on the rag, but i think *lcd 2 and wa2 don't get enough respect as a very good (but understandably not ideal combo*
i am also using the gec 6as7g power tubes that perhaps help hold it together
		
Click to expand...

_
I totally agree that the LCD-2 (and 3 as I see it) is absolutely not wasted with the WA2! If you own the WA2, don't keep that from enjoying the LCD-2 and 3. But if you already have the WA2 and need an amp, the WA2 is not first on the list - then WA6SE (and many others) would be a safer recommendation. They latest LCD-3 model is 110 ohms, so it might be less colored than the original LCD-3 , which I've heard (and actually liked quite a bit despite the coloration) with the WA2.

Keep on enjoying your WA2/LCD-2, @thecrow 

_
_


----------



## rexhu100

Looks like WA2 isn't very popular now a days...


----------



## thecrow

rexhu100 said:


> Looks like WA2 isn't very popular now a days...


It is in my house
Great with the hd800

Silky. Smooth.


----------



## billerb1

Ditto to Crow's comments.  It's not the newest amp in  the Woo lineup but it is one helluva amp.  Think it came out in 2009 or thereabouts so it's not going to get much press now.
But it delivers the goods for me.  So musical.  So digestible.  End game amp for me.


----------



## StanT

rexhu100 said:


> Looks like WA2 isn't very popular now a days...


Like other have said, I have one, like it, and don't need two. I have enough tubes to last a decade or so. There isn't much to talk about.


----------



## Aethelred

This is typical newer must be better approach. Yes for planars amps should be selected in a different way and dedicated construction will sound better as electrically it will be more suitable. WA2 with right tubes and dynamic headphones like HD800// AT -WX000 is really hard to beat. And as somebody said - have one , not planning to sell and love one. BTW I also love and not planning to part with my old-new BOZ ZZ-8.


----------



## rexhu100

I have a WA2 myself, and I think it provides great value at its price point. But I don't see a lot of discussion on tube rolling, compared to even something like the WA5. I find it a bit strange.


----------



## Aethelred (Nov 18, 2017)

You can see some info here and here


----------



## billerb1

...and here  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations.393811/


----------



## rexhu100

Awesome. I'll look into them


----------



## OldSkool

billerb1 said:


> ...and here  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-wa2-tube-rolling-recommendations.393811/



And don't forget:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-991#post-13842411

In the WA2, that last tube mentioned is so good it will make you change your avatar


----------



## rexhu100

OldSkool said:


> And don't forget:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/page-991#post-13842411
> 
> In the WA2, that last tube mentioned is so good it will make you change your avatar



Interesting. So you can use 2C51 as driver on WA2?


----------



## billerb1

rexhu100 said:


> Interesting. So you can use 2C51 as driver on WA2?



Yes with this adapter:   https://www.ebay.com/itm/1piece-Gol...370227?hash=item2cba6e94b3:g:3pgAAOSwKfVXJciG


----------



## koven

I still like my WA2.


----------



## rexhu100

What is "pseudo dual power supply"?


----------



## rexhu100

Anyone? I think WA6 also has "pseudo dual power supply".


----------



## Astral Abyss

Hi Folks!

I bought a WA2, in black, during the Woo Audio Thanksgiving sale a couple weeks ago.  So far, this amp is incredible.  Really, really happy with it.  My intention is to use it with my HD650, HD800, and ZMF Eikon.  They weren't getting the attention they deserve, and I figured this amp was the perfect cure.

My WA2 came with PhilipsECG 6080WC, PhilipsECG 6922, and Electro-Harmonix 6CA4 (EZ81).  I was actually quite satisfied with the way those tubes sounded, but of course I had to try some others.  I have a number of 6DJ8/6922 tubes from when I had a Lyr2, so I swapped in some Reflector 6N1P '75 "Holy Grails", also swapped in a pair of TS 7236, and a pair of Ei EZ80s.  I can't believe how hard the bass hits on this amp with this tube combo.  I'm using it primarily with my ZMF Eikons right now and it's just so impressive.  The TS 7236s, while obviously bass monsters, seem to be a mid-centric tube as well, and really cleaned up and highlight vocals vs the Philips 6080s.  It's a really addictive listening experience that I can't seem to get enough of. Can't say that the Ei rectifiers really did much for me...  I think I may actually prefer the EHs, although its fairly subtle.

I'm still looking for some TS 5998s at a "reasonable" price.  No luck yet.  I did pick up a pair of TS 6080WAs, as I heard they sound good but are hard to find.  Unfortunately, one of them has a bad short in it and damn near blew out my left channel and my eardrum.  Working on getting a refund on them.  Disappointing.
Contemplating picking up some 6AS7s to try out as well.

I have a fairly significant amount of hum on the WA2.  Least noticeable on the HD650s and most noticeable on the Eikons.  Really picks up right at that 11am mark, as others have said.  I haven't put much effort into mitigating it yet.  I can only hear it when there's no music playing, so it doesn't really bother me... no more so than my tinnitus anyway, heh.

Glad to be part of the WA2 club and just wanted to reiterate that this is still a great amp, even if it's not the monthly flavor.  Excellent, clear sound and amazing dynamics.


----------



## thecrow

Astral Abyss said:


> Hi Folks!
> 
> I bought a WA2, in black, during the Woo Audio Thanksgiving sale a couple weeks ago.  So far, this amp is incredible.  Really, really happy with it.  My intention is to use it with my HD650, HD800, and ZMF Eikon.  They weren't getting the attention they deserve, and I figured this amp was the perfect cure.
> 
> ...


When I bought my wa2 two years ago I was quite surprised how detailed it is on top of it’s silliness. And that was with just the stock tubes

Fantastic amp for my hd800

Enjoy!!!


----------



## rexhu100

Astral Abyss said:


> Hi Folks!
> 
> I bought a WA2, in black, during the Woo Audio Thanksgiving sale a couple weeks ago.  So far, this amp is incredible.  Really, really happy with it.  My intention is to use it with my HD650, HD800, and ZMF Eikon.  They weren't getting the attention they deserve, and I figured this amp was the perfect cure.
> 
> ...


.
I use mine with HD 800S. Absolutely phenomenal!


----------



## Maalis

I recently got a used WA2 and noticed that the sockets are pretty loose so I'm thinking about getting socket savers that I could attach more firmly to the sockets. I would need these for the driver and rectifier sockets. I'm still bit of a tube noob but are these something that I can use for this: https://tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver ?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Dont do it, it can fry your amp.......... heed the warning!!!!!!!


Maalis said:


> I recently got a used WA2 and noticed that the sockets are pretty loose so I'm thinking about getting socket savers that I could attach more firmly to the sockets. I would need these for the driver and rectifier sockets. I'm still bit of a tube noob but are these something that I can use for this: https://tubedepot.com/products/9-pin-socket-saver ?


----------



## attmci (Jul 1, 2018)

BIG POPPA said:


> Dont do it, it can fry your amp.......... heed the warning!!!!!!!


Why?

BTW, those socket savers are imported from Mrs. Xu Ling. Don't know how they can help to fix your already weared out socket.


----------



## BIG POPPA

On any tube amp unless the manufacturer makes them and recommends them stay clear of them.
You can add crazy resistance, bottle neck the power, can go on and on how they can jack your gear up. They sound handy they might even work? But for how long,  before the jack your rig. So not recommended


----------



## Kukuk

I have one of these bad boys on its way. I'm really excited.

Not sure how big of an upgrade its going to be. Most of my headphones are fairly easy to drive, or low impedance, so I'm not expecting huge gains. I'll be honest, though, a huge reason I bought it is because it's so beautiful, so I'm fully aware I'm paying a premium for a piece of desk art. Hah.

Still, it has the added function of being a pre-amp, which will be a godsend for my Koss ESP-950s. It's such a hassle adjusting volume with the separate channel knobs. Might even get some nice tube coloration out of it, so it'll be interesting to see how the 950s play with it.


----------



## Kukuk

Was there supposed to be an option to add pre-amp functionality? Or am I just stupid?


----------



## StanT

Older models had pre-amp built in, Woo removed that a few years ago.


----------



## Kukuk

StanT said:


> Older models had pre-amp built in, Woo removed that a few years ago.



That's weak. The manual on the website even mentions RCA outputs.


----------



## thecrow

Kukuk said:


> I have one of these bad boys on its way. I'm really excited.
> 
> Not sure how big of an upgrade its going to be. Most of my headphones are fairly easy to drive, or low impedance, so I'm not expecting huge gains. I'll be honest, though, a huge reason I bought it is because it's so beautiful, so I'm fully aware I'm paying a premium for a piece of desk art. Hah.
> 
> Still, it has the added function of being a pre-amp, which will be a godsend for my Koss ESP-950s. It's such a hassle adjusting volume with the separate channel knobs. Might even get some nice tube coloration out of it, so it'll be interesting to see how the 950s play with it.


The amp is very suited to high impedance headphones. It works well with my lcd2 and good most of the time with my elears


----------



## Kukuk

As absolutely no surprise, with my Beyer T5ps there is basically no difference between my Magni 2 and this amp. There's barely a difference between amped an unamped with them, since they are so ridiculously easy to drive.

My CD900STs are largely unchanged, with maybe a little bigger soundstage. Again, easy headphone to drive, not surprised on this one.

The real surprise is just how fantastically awesome my DT770 Pro 80s sound. This amp really steps them up. Most notably it cleans the bass and treble up, and offers a little better soundstage. The cleaned up bass and treble really help with imaging, and I would argue might push the DT770s to a higher tier of headphone. They've certainly shot up my list of favorite headphones.

Still a long way to go as far as trying out my headphones in earnest, I mostly just have a short time with each right now. Not expecting huge things, since as I said most of my headphones are low impedance, but maybe I'll get another surprise like the DT770s.


----------



## thecrow

Great silky smooth sound. 

And it will get better still if /when you start tube rolling. 

When i first bought mine (upgrading from my burson soloist) for my hd800 i was surprised how much better it was and then the same thing again when i started buying tubes on top of that. 

If you like your beyers you do have a lot of options (various price points) with higher impedance to consider down the track. 

Enjoy


----------



## Kukuk

Upon further listening I think maybe the amp is improving soundstage on my T5ps a bit. It's tough to say if it's just in my head or not, or I noticed I had volume lowered on my media player, and I've heard that actually has a large impact on sound quality. (using digital volume control at all, that is.)

I really like to approach my gear with some skepticism, so it can be kind hard to nail down where my impressions are coming from exactly. Still, I think even on the T5ps I think I'm getting some gains over my Magni 2.

I can't seem to keep my socks on when I listen to these damned DT770s, though. The tonal balance is obviously about the same as they were before, but they just sound so... Grown up now. They have been refined at every level. They are honestly not far behind my T5ps.


----------



## billerb1 (Mar 5, 2019)

Been blown away for the past couple of months using a pair of Telefunken ECC801s as my driver tubes. You'll of course need 12AT7 to E88CC adapters. Great synergy with my GEC 6AS7G's power and Marconi U709 rectifiers.

Along those lines I've read that GEC A2900's are the absolute premier 12AT7 type tube...but that it has a higher amplification factor than others in the family. Has anyone here tried them with the WA2? Does anyone know if they are truly compatible or whether they may damage the WA2 ???
Would appreciate any input.
http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/pdf/a2900.pdf


----------



## xmarksbooks

Hi all. 

Just got in Woo 2 this morning. This thing is awesome. Figured I would share some thoughts after about 8 hours. 

First off - tubes

Tung Sol 5998
Amperex 6922 PQ
Brimar EZ81

I have a lot of tubes to roll, but these were what I started based on recs from this and the tube rolling thread. 

I don’t want to write a long list of impressions, that’s been done, but figured I would add in some notes. 

Headphone pairings:

HD650 and Audio Technica ATW1000x - excellent pairing. The HD650s have been covered at length. Not much on the ATWs. These sound phenomenal. Beautiful pairing. I think they are just high enough impedance to sing with WA2. 

Mr. Speakers Ether C and Audeze LCD 2 (rev 2.2) Ethers are ok. Not the best on first impression, but I’m gonna give them another shot. 
I get the mixed response on the LCD2s, they sound decent with the Woo, maybe different tubes will help. I think with both these cans, they sound ok bc they’re great headphones and a great amp, but they can sound much better with other amps. 

As a pre-amp...

LOVE IT. This has not been covered much in this thread. It is great as a pre-amp, at least with the tubes I tried today. 

The chain is as follows:

Roon on Mac mini-> topping d50 dac -> wa2 -> McIntosh MC225 -> DeVore Fidelity The Nines speakers

Or 

Rega P6 -> Jolida JD9II w/ Gold Lion tubes -> wa2 -> McIntosh MC225 -> DeVore Fidelity The Nines speakers

Both sources sound absolutely excellent, no lack of power or anything from the woo. Really improved the sound across the board when added to the chain. 

TL;DR

Great with HD650 and ATH1000x

Not so great with LCD2 and Ether C

Great as pre-amp


----------



## Astral Abyss

@xmarksbooks  Too bad you started with those tubes... Everything else is going to sound lesser now.  Heh.

Try picking up some 2c51/5670/6n3p to 6922 adapters (recommend Jeremy's on Garage 1217) and playing around with some cheap, yet excellent, 6n3p Reflektor and Foton tubes.  Every bit as good as my E88CC Miniwatts and Valvo CCa's.  Different flavors.

Welcome to the club.


----------



## xmarksbooks

Astral Abyss said:


> @xmarksbooks  Too bad you started with those tubes... Everything else is going to sound lesser now.  Heh.
> 
> Try picking up some 2c51/5670/6n3p to 6922 adapters (recommend Jeremy's on Garage 1217) and playing around with some cheap, yet excellent, 6n3p Reflektor and Foton tubes.  Every bit as good as my E88CC Miniwatts and Valvo CCa's.  Different flavors.
> 
> Welcome to the club.



Oh lord. Don’t get me started with adapters! I was just getting a handle on standard tubes!

I already have a lot to try. I bought the amp second hand, and it came with an excellent selection of tubes. I also bought a lot while for it to come in the mail. 

Thanks for the tip though. I am a constant tweaker. It’s why I got into tubes in the first place, I figure new tubes is better on the wallet than new amps etc....

At least I keep telling myself that....


----------



## Astral Abyss

xmarksbooks said:


> Oh lord. Don’t get me started with adapters! I was just getting a handle on standard tubes!
> 
> I already have a lot to try. I bought the amp second hand, and it came with an excellent selection of tubes. I also bought a lot while for it to come in the mail.
> 
> ...



Haha, sorry about that.

I agree though.  Buying... and searching... for new tubes is a lot of fun.  I've met a lot of people on Head-Fi just by talking about tubes.  We're all a bit wacky.


----------



## parmiep

Has anyone heard a set of Verite or Verite Closed through a WA2? I ran a search but didn't see anything come up. It seems like the common pairing is the HD800, but my headphone line-up is comprised of an incoming Rad-0 and Verite Closed. I'd be curious to hear people's impressions!


----------



## elisiX

A few recent photos of my new WA2.

I’m yet to pair it with anything low impedance, but it’s doing a nice job on my Utopia with Hugo 2 as dac. HD800S on the way!


----------



## helljudgement

parmiep said:


> Has anyone heard a set of Verite or Verite Closed through a WA2? I ran a search but didn't see anything come up. It seems like the common pairing is the HD800, but my headphone line-up is comprised of an incoming Rad-0 and Verite Closed. I'd be curious to hear people's impressions!



I've own both verite and wa2 at some point but never together. The wa2 makes my hd800 which is my primary headphone at that time a tad too warm and overly smooth for my liking and this is with upgraded sylvania tubes. These characteristics won't go well with the verite as the verite is inherently a warmer headphone. Being an OTL amp, it probably won't drive your planar well as OTL by design is meant to drive high impedance headphones

I suggest going one level up and order a DNA Stratus which could drive both your planar and verite well.


----------



## vlach

elisiX said:


> A few recent photos of my new WA2.
> 
> I’m yet to pair it with anything low impedance, but it’s doing a nice job on my Utopia with Hugo 2 as dac. HD800S on the way!



How is the HD800S working out with your WA2?


----------



## Dubstep Girl

The nostalgia this amp brings to me, one of Woo’s best designs still, I find it more coherent, smooth, and airy compared to the WA22, despite not being as resolving or as good in soundstage. With upgraded tubes, its probably the best HD 800 tube amp due to its synergy until you get ready to spend a lot more (WA5 with upgrades, Apex Teton, DNA).


----------



## vlach

Dubstep Girl said:


> The nostalgia this amp brings to me, one of Woo’s best designs still, I find it more coherent, smooth, and airy compared to the WA22, despite not being as resolving or as good in soundstage. With upgraded tubes, its probably the best HD 800 tube amp due to its synergy until you get ready to spend a lot more (WA5 with upgrades, Apex Teton, DNA).



If you had to fault it, would you say that despite sounding warm and smooth it is also somewhat soft sounding?


----------



## Dubstep Girl (Oct 4, 2020)

vlach said:


> If you had to fault it, would you say that despite sounding warm and smooth it is also somewhat soft sounding?



it can be, though this is improved with tubes, and that is part of the synergy with hd 800 / t1, silky smooth and sweet over absolute dynamics and speed is generally favorable with these headphones, getting all of those quality together requires a lot more $$$ too and isn’t for everyone.

tube wise, the 5998 helps with dynamics a lot, and the gec 6as7g does too, but is sweeter and more resolving. adding a nice amperex tube 6922 / 6dj8 and ez80 helps too. those looking for punch, dynamics, and speed can also try a 6n23p for that. this is a very tube dependent design, it can go from very lush and warm to extended and liquid depending on the rolls


----------



## vlach

Dubstep Girl said:


> it can be, though this is improved with tubes, and that is part of the synergy with hd 800 / t1, silky smooth and sweet over absolute dynamics and speed is generally favorable with these headphones, getting all of those quality together requires a lot more $$$ too and isn’t for everyone.
> 
> tube wise, the 5998 helps with dynamics a lot, and the gec 6as7g does too, but is sweeter and more resolving. adding a nice amperex tube 6922 / 6dj8 and ez80 helps too. those looking for punch, dynamics, and speed can also try a 6n23p for that. this is a very tube dependent design, it can go from very lush and warm to extended and liquid depending on the rolls



Thank ypu for the feedabck DG, i think the WA2 is my next amp and i will use it specifically for the HD800 & T1. 
I will save your notes regarding tube options, thanks again!


----------



## billerb1

GEC 6AS7G's, Telefunken ECC801S's (with adapters) and Marconi U709's with Schiit Audio Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC and HD800S's...pure (and I do mean PURE) heaven !!!


----------



## Jacobal

All of you here remind me a younger version of me. I’ve spent an insane amount of time and money on kilobuck gear like tube amps and balanced dacs, but I was never really 100% satisfied for some reason. Turns out, the journey for audio ecstasy and bliss is comparable to a drug addiction where the user will eventually build tolerance to pleasure and need more (upgrades in this case). I’m currently using a Fiio E17 (which I got for $50) with an iem as I type this, and couldn’t be happier. A simple, space-saving, all-in-one solution that happens to sound way above the price that I’ve paid. 

Regarding the Woo 2 amp that I’ve demoed, it had good sound and more impressive build quality, although I preferred  the WA6SE as it can be used with the 274B Takatsuki Tube (which I think is the best tube in existence).


----------



## vlach (Oct 8, 2020)

Does anyone know the actual output impedance of the WA2?

Edit: Found the answer on another thread where Jack confirmed it is 60 ohms.


----------



## Onik

Anyone knows the difference between the Preamp and Non Preamp version of WA2?

and why Woo Audio removed the Pre Amp option?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Onik said:


> Anyone knows the difference between the Preamp and Non Preamp version of WA2?
> 
> and why Woo Audio removed the Pre Amp option?


That's the only difference as far as I know. I don't know why they removed it, you could ask Woo.


----------



## Aethelred

I think it was the cost optimization, although the company might claim the option was not very popular. Also the inner construction had changed as at the beginning it was point to point wiring, and i understand now it is the pcb. In all honesty, i think the amp itself is great with HD800 - tubes GEC A1834, Valvo red E188CC and RFT EZ80 - the preamp section is not that great. It is soft sounding, but has nice soundstage, needs careful pairing - with my Berning ZH270 there was some electrical mismatch as i could see speaker membranes were moving without the signal. With First Watt SIT-3 is good - keeps similar character as the amp itself , loosing somehow the "magic " sound character. Vocals are nice but lose definition and sound is loosing the weight. It sounds soft, dynamics are not there - percussion does not have impact, delicate but the body of the sound is not there - this is opposite to what i hear as an amp. It might need different power amp.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Aethelred said:


> I think it was the cost optimization, although the company might claim the option was not very popular. Also the inner construction had changed as at the beginning it was point to point wiring, and i understand now it is the pcb. In all honesty, i think the amp itself is great with HD800 - tubes GEC A1834, Valvo red E188CC and RFT EZ80 - the preamp section is not that great. It is soft sounding, but has nice soundstage, needs careful pairing - with my Berning ZH270 there was some electrical mismatch as i could see speaker membranes were moving without the signal. With First Watt SIT-3 is good - keeps similar character as the amp itself , loosing somehow the "magic " sound character. Vocals are nice but lose definition and sound is loosing the weight. It sounds soft, dynamics are not there - percussion does not have impact, delicate but the body of the sound is not there - this is opposite to what i hear as an amp. It might need different power amp.


This is the first I read that they stopped point to point. Thanks for this info.


----------



## Onik

gimmeheadroom said:


> That's the only difference as far as I know. I don't know why they removed it, you could ask Woo.



I asked woo Audio this was their response:

Hi Onik,

Hope you had a great weekend.

Most customers are using WA2 as a headphone amplifier so we improve the performance of the headphone output.

If you want to use WA2 as a preamp, you can simply use the 1/4" headphone output. It works the same way. Here's a link to an example cable you'll need for the task.

http://amzn.to/2sqENGz

Thank you for choosing Woo Audio. Don’t hesitate to reach out again if you have additional questions. We’re here to help. 

~ Mike Liang


----------



## vlach

Aethelred said:


> Also the inner construction had changed as at the beginning it was point to point wiring, and i understand now it is the pcb.



Where did you hear this? According to the website it is point-to-point wiring.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

vlach said:


> Where did you hear this? According to the website it is point-to-point wiring.


Maybe they didn't update it. For a long time after they disabled the preamp function (they put non-removable plugs in the output jacks) they still listed it as a feature.


----------



## Onik

I was going for WA 2 but when I saw the preamp option removed now Im not really sure if should pay over £1000+import fees for this amp.


----------



## blackdragon87

is this good with atticus and eikon. consideting buying one


----------



## blackdragon87 (Nov 29, 2020)

,


----------



## blackdragon87

current amps are liquid platinum and valhalla 2


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I would expect it to be an upgrade from both. But I haven't heard it...yet..


----------



## blackdragon87

lol that was what i was thinking. the wa 2 looks quite big though, not sure if i have enough room on desk


----------



## Onik

elisiX said:


> A few recent photos of my new WA2.
> 
> I’m yet to pair it with anything low impedance, but it’s doing a nice job on my Utopia with Hugo 2 as dac. HD800S on the way!



this looks sexy, still waiting for mine, what power and driver tubes are you using?


----------



## elisiX

Onik said:


> this looks sexy, still waiting for mine, what power and driver tubes are you using?



All stock. I haven’t yet explored other options.


----------



## Onik

elisiX said:


> All stock. I haven’t yet explored other options.



What are they? Are the stock tubes warm enough for brighter cans like hd800s/t1?


----------



## elisiX

Onik said:


> What are they? Are the stock tubes warm enough for brighter cans like hd800s/t1?



I’ll have to double check what they are, but I use the WA2 exclusively with my HD800S and I think it’s a really nice pairing. Tube rolling would likely net a greater result but I haven’t explored this.


----------



## Onik

Ah I wish I received my WA 2 by now, but damn Fedex lost my parcel now they are wasting time with woo audio for investigation.


----------



## Aethelred

Paring with the HD800 SNR mod still works for me best.Some more demanding headphones (HEDD, other planars) might suffer from lack of power , so some of the too mellow headphones.
OTL works great with brighter headphones. After many experiments with the tubes I have settled down on the :
- power - GEC A1834 brown "cup cake" base 
- pre - Valvo E188CC Red Label D-getter
-rectifier - RFT EZ80
If you need more power and more snap - TungSol 5998 is very very nice, 7062 was more dynamic for me but less detailed, and A1834 is ultimate IMHO, if you are after OTLish sound - very natural sounding, maybe not the last word in the dynamic aspect but the mid range to die for.


----------



## thecrow (Feb 6, 2021)

Aethelred said:


> Paring with the HD800 SNR mod still works for me best.Some more demanding headphones (HEDD, other planars) might suffer from lack of power , so some of the too mellow headphones.
> OTL works great with brighter headphones. After many experiments with the tubes I have settled down on the :
> - power - GEC A1834 brown "cup cake" base
> - pre - Valvo E188CC Red Label D-getter
> ...


Pretty much agree.

the gec a1834/6as7g are the ultimates for me too. Just plug in and forget. (Almost) Never bother changing.
if looking for them be patient to n case you find a bargain as they are crazy expensive. A year or two ago they were about 650 usd a pair (nos). Now i see them advertised on ebay for significantly more.

for me the we421a or tungsol/chatham 5998 are the next best. But definitely behind the gec 6as7g.
and then there is a gap to the next level again

i have never bought an nos matched pair but found a few bargains in used tubes of these and they have been good enough for me. One of 5 that i have bought over a few years have died.

the Valvo E188CC Red Label D-getter that you mention i find to be great value. Honest sound, good detail. The pinched waist from holland are my favourites ( i bought them a couple of years ago for about $650 usd) but the ones you mentioned are great bang for buck and very good without factoring in that they have been well priced in the past.
i also enjoy my telefunken e188cc too, depending on the sound that i want.

having done the tube rolling thing my advice for newcomers is quality over quantity (of options).
and when you read consistent opinions here on headfi, they are generally pretty correct.

ps i also have the RFT EZ80 but have never bought others to compare them too.

when i bought the wa2 for my hd800 i really enjoyed the amp but liked it even more with upgraded tubes.
when i went on holidays for a few weeks i came back and went straight back to stock tubes and was surprised how good the amp was (as i hadn't heard them for a while). so it’s even good as is. But then as i put the upgraded tubes back in the increase in quality of sound was apparent.

there’s a lot of rambling in there but i hope that helps newcomers here 

final note: it is a fantastic amp with the (my) hd800
extra final note: buy I had to get another amp (solid state) when i bought other headphones that do not have high impedances so that they could shine


----------



## Aethelred

thecrow said:


> ps i also have the RFT EZ80 but have never bought others to compare them too.



I've compared them to Philips, Telefunken and Mullards. For me very surprisingly RFT works best. Maybe with other pre /power tubes other brands would be better. In my opinion the most important are Power and Pre tubes, The rectifier has some sound signature but it is not as dramatic as power or pre tubes.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Onik said:


> Ah I wish I received my WA 2 by now, but damn Fedex lost my parcel now they are wasting time with woo audio for investigation.



We find it "interesting" that you asked for a FULL refund instead of a replacement which we offered to send. 

*We gave you a FULL refund.*


----------



## Onik

HiFiGuy528 said:


> We find it "interesting" that you asked for a FULL refund instead of a replacement which we offered to send.
> 
> *We gave you a FULL refund.*


MANY THANKS for FULL REFUND(too long time!) , there's no Guarantee I'm gonna receive the replacement, instead I bought cheaper amp from my country to make life easier.


----------



## skhan007 (Feb 21, 2021)

Editing my post to simply my question, in the hopes that some of you will be kind enough to provide some guidance:

I'm deciding between the Woo WA7 Fireflies with tube power supply (heard it in-peson at a hi-fi gathering pre-pandemic and loved it with my Senn HD800), and the WA2 or WA6. The latter two appeal to me because of tube rolling options, which might be fun and yield useable combinations. 

The WA2 and WA6 are also DAC-less and I would either need to use my current DAC (an old Apogee Duet, which I think is decent, but I don't know what I'm missing with more modern DAC's) or purchase a new DAC to use. I'm listening to FLAC/ALAC on my MacBook Pro. 

Curious if you all would say the WA7 Fireflies is a good place to start for my first Woo product or WA2 or WA6 with an external DAC (either use the one I have or buy a newer/better one). Any guidance is most appreciated.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

skhan007 said:


> Editing my post to simply my question, in the hopes that some of you will be kind enough to provide some guidance:
> 
> I'm deciding between the Woo WA7 Fireflies with tube power supply (heard it in-peson at a hi-fi gathering pre-pandemic and loved it with my Senn HD800), and the WA2 or WA6. The latter two appeal to me because of tube rolling options, which might be fun and yield useable combinations.
> 
> ...



WA7+WA7tp pairs exceptionally well with HD800 and since you are using a MacBook Pro, the convenience of one USB cable from Mac to WA7 is an easy and elegant setup.


----------



## zeroduke (Feb 25, 2021)

HiFiGuy528 said:


> WA7+WA7tp pairs exceptionally well with HD800 and since you are using a MacBook Pro, the convenience of one USB cable from Mac to WA7 is an easy and elegant setup.


Yes, I agree with you.  For convenience WA7 is the one.  But I find the WA2 allowing tube rolling a much better option because it allows a fine tuning with the different headphones.  I've got many headphones and use them all,  rolling from time to time.  I've also got both, the WA7 and WA2.  Both excellent amps, indeed.    But listening with my HD800, the very analytical headphone from Sennheiser, I've found you can extract the best with the appropriate valves and that is allowed only on the WA2.  Every person hear differently...  changing valves allows to customize to your own taste.  And particularly HD800 needs to be tamed.


----------



## Kiats

Had this beauty stashed away for a few years until I picked up a DI box with RCA output so I can connect more amps to my DAC. Now enjoying my Focal Utopia out of the WA2.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Kiats said:


> Had this beauty stashed away for a few years until I picked up a DI box with RCA output so I can connect more amps to my DAC. Now enjoying my Focal Utopia out of the WA2.



very nice! I also like pairing WA2 with Sennheiser HD800S.


----------



## exchez

I saw a great deal on a Woo Audio WA2 in the classifieds and took it as a sign that the WA2 was the direction I should go in for my desktop upgrade. Glad I did, because I can finally say I “get it” when people talk about their love for tube amps. I’m new to Head-Fi and this is my first post. I started getting into headphone amps during the pandemic like many others. My first tube amp was a Schiit Valhalla 2, so that’s my only frame of reference for these impressions. I don’t think seasoned WA2 owners will get anything new out of this post, but hopefully it’ll help people who are newer to tube amps and looking to get into something more serious after dipping their toes into the water with the Schiit Valhalla, Vali or Lyr. My headphones are Beyerdynamic T1.2’s.

For a good frame of reference I did most of my listening with the stock tubes* and I was surprised by how great they sounded. For how little they cost relative to their premium counterparts, I can assure you there’s plenty of value and enjoyment in the stock setup. Even if you never upgraded your tubes, you’d still have a fantastic sounding amp. Compared to the Valhalla 2, the WA2 is clearer, more laid back and more natural sounding. Music amplified by the WA2 loses the harsh forwardness of the Valhalla 2. Instead of charging straight into your ears, the music is nicely arranged into a natural sounding image and presented to the listener in a relaxed manner. This presentation makes the sound slower and softer; less urgent. It encourages the music to be listened to rather than just heard—especially for classical music which can contain harsh piano strikes and violin bowing. 

The relaxed presentation of the WA2 doesn’t mean there’s a tradeoff for clarity or detail (at least compared to the Valhalla 2). In fact, versus the Valhalla 2, the WA2 is much clearer—from the bass in the chorus of Beck’s _Where It’s At _to the inharmonicity of the pizzicato in Dvorak’s _Piano Quartet No. 2_**. I did not know this level of naturalness and clarity could be achieved with an amp until I began listening to music on the WA2. That may speak more to my naïveté than to the exceptionalism of the amplifier, but I’m perfectly happy to be listening in blissful ignorance for now.

Imaging was also improved. Tracks mixed with vocals or instruments panned entirely to one channel or the other sound much nicer and more natural on the WA2. I no longer feel tempted to reach for the crossfeed effect while listening to Jacques Loussier’s _Play Bach_ or the Grateful Dead’s _Workingman’s Dead_. Both of those albums sounded lousy on the Valhalla 2 with their awkward imaging. They were meant to be enjoyed on speakers, not headphones, but the WA2 actually pulls this off very well and makes for an enjoyable listening experience despite it.

A mark against the WA2 could be made for being overly relaxed on some rock songs. The oomph and immediacy of Mary Timony’s guitar on Ex Hex’s _Speak to Me_ is noticeably diminished compared to the Valhalla 2. Previous posters to this thread noted that this can be mitigated by using the 7236 or Tung Sol 5998 power tubes. Personally, I don’t mind it if it means less fatigue on my ears. Another factor which may be important to some is that the WA2 can get a little noisy with no music streaming. At 12-o’clock on the volume dial I begin to hear a faint hum which gets louder as I crank the amp to max. The Valhalla 2 is dead silent all the way up to max. After a little research, some experimentation and help from the community, I determined the hum is caused by the tubes. This is actually normal at very high volumes and finding the right combo of tubes can diminish the hum if it really bothers you. Even at the high end of my preferred listening volume I can’t detect any hum, so I’m not going to go crazy trying to eliminate it.

With respect to the tube rolling possibilities of the WA2, I have a bevy of power tubes arriving soon. I look forward to experimenting with some different combos, but could not stomach the cost of the 5998’s (currently $899/pair from Woo Audio). If I find something worth mentioning, I’d love to write it up for this thread. My writing is a little out of practice, but it feels nice to contribute to a thread that I’ve found so helpful in learning more about this fantastic amp.

* PhilipsECG JAN 6080WC, PhilipsECG JAN 6922, Electro-Harmonix 6CA4
** Rubinstein Collection, Vol. 66: Dvorák: Piano Quartet; Schuman: Piano Quintet


----------



## Astral Abyss

exchez said:


> I saw a great deal on a Woo Audio WA2 in the classifieds and took it as a sign that the WA2 was the direction I should go in for my desktop upgrade. Glad I did, because I can finally say I “get it” when people talk about their love for tube amps. I’m new to Head-Fi and this is my first post. I started getting into headphone amps during the pandemic like many others. My first tube amp was a Schiit Valhalla 2, so that’s my only frame of reference for these impressions. I don’t think seasoned WA2 owners will get anything new out of this post, but hopefully it’ll help people who are newer to tube amps and looking to get into something more serious after dipping their toes into the water with the Schiit Valhalla, Vali or Lyr. My headphones are Beyerdynamic T1.2’s.
> 
> For a good frame of reference I did most of my listening with the stock tubes* and I was surprised by how great they sounded. For how little they cost relative to their premium counterparts, I can assure you there’s plenty of value and enjoyment in the stock setup. Even if you never upgraded your tubes, you’d still have a fantastic sounding amp. Compared to the Valhalla 2, the WA2 is clearer, more laid back and more natural sounding. Music amplified by the WA2 loses the harsh forwardness of the Valhalla 2. Instead of charging straight into your ears, the music is nicely arranged into a natural sounding image and presented to the listener in a relaxed manner. This presentation makes the sound slower and softer; less urgent. It encourages the music to be listened to rather than just heard—especially for classical music which can contain harsh piano strikes and violin bowing.
> 
> ...


@exchez Excellent impressions and great first post!  It's nice to hear the thoughts of someone newer to tube amps, as I think it gives you an honest approach to the sound and less likely to gloss over some of the drawbacks or compromises.  There's something special about the sound from an OTL amp, especially one with tube rectification.  I think you mentioned it with the naturalness to the sound.

$900 for a pair of 5998s is a bit steep.  I think you can probably find some here, if you're patient, for much less.


----------



## zeroduke (May 26, 2021)

exchez said:


> I saw a great deal on a Woo Audio WA2 in the classifieds and took it as a sign that the WA2 was the direction I should go in for my desktop upgrade. Glad I did, because I can finally say I “get it” when people talk about their love for tube amps. I’m new to Head-Fi and this is my first post. I started getting into headphone amps during the pandemic like many others. My first tube amp was a Schiit Valhalla 2, so that’s my only frame of reference for these impressions. I don’t think seasoned WA2 owners will get anything new out of this post, but hopefully it’ll help people who are newer to tube amps and looking to get into something more serious after dipping their toes into the water with the Schiit Valhalla, Vali or Lyr. My headphones are Beyerdynamic T1.2’s.
> 
> For a good frame of reference I did most of my listening with the stock tubes* and I was surprised by how great they sounded. For how little they cost relative to their premium counterparts, I can assure you there’s plenty of value and enjoyment in the stock setup. Even if you never upgraded your tubes, you’d still have a fantastic sounding amp. Compared to the Valhalla 2, the WA2 is clearer, more laid back and more natural sounding. Music amplified by the WA2 loses the harsh forwardness of the Valhalla 2. Instead of charging straight into your ears, the music is nicely arranged into a natural sounding image and presented to the listener in a relaxed manner. This presentation makes the sound slower and softer; less urgent. It encourages the music to be listened to rather than just heard—especially for classical music which can contain harsh piano strikes and violin bowing.
> 
> ...


Yes, I agree with you.  WooAudio WA2 matches perfectly well with the 600-ohms Beyer T1.  I love that pair.  I am using this match with Bendix 6080 right now but it worked perfectly well with the cheaper French valves, the Thomson  CSF 6080WA.  Very nice sound too.  Changing rectifier valves helps to tune the sound on the WA2 so I found that depending on the power valve I needed to change the rectifier to get my best preference. When I say changing rectifier valves I mean EZ80 to EZ81 or reverse.


----------



## exchez

zeroduke said:


> Yes, I agree with you.  WooAudio WA2 matches perfectly well with the 600-ohms Beyer T1.  I love that pair.  I am using this match with Bendix 6080 right now but it worked perfectly well with the cheaper French valves, the Thomson  CSF 6080WA.  Very nice sound too.  Changing rectifier valves helps to tune the sound on the WA2 so I found that depending on the power valve I needed to change the rectifier to get my best preference. When I say changing rectifier valves I mean EZ80 to EZ81 or reverse.


Very interesting. Were you able to find any patterns with how you paired the rectifiers with the power tubes? I have a suspicion that the higher power tubes pair better with the EZ80 which sort of tames them from being too forward.


----------



## zeroduke

exchez said:


> Very interesting. Were you able to find any patterns with how you paired the rectifiers with the power tubes? I have a suspicion that the higher power tubes pair better with the EZ80 which sort of tames them from being too forward.


For instance, I found that when using Mullard 6080 valves they perform better, that is more clear and detailed, when paired with EZ81.  And, to tame the sound of 7236 when I found it not warm enough, I got better sound with EZ80.


----------



## muckyfingers

I changed out my power LED to orange, so it better matches the tube glow.


----------



## Chesterfield

lucaskite's did a wonderful job describing all these tubes. Thank you: I found this very helpful. 

However, re: the Mullard EZ81s--it sounds like he may have gotten a bum pair. In fact, I'd rank the British-made Mullard EZ81s (often OEM Philips Miniwatt) as #2 or 3 on this list. Mine are really quite wonderful. Clean-sounding; expansive sound stage; dynamic; good imaging; well balanced; good speed for micro-details in timbre. Sweet treble.

The Blackburn D-Getter Mullard EZ80s (#5) have magical mids, as stated--but at a real cost in bass and treble. And the focused soundstage (rather than focused, I'd call it "vastly diminished") basically kills one of the best features of HD800/HD800Ss. Jack Woo's on record saying they're the best rectifier for the WA2--but I really disagree on that one.

As others have noted, RFT EZ80s should be added to the list--but they get more recommendations for the WA2 (in my opinion) than they deserve--but they're relatively inexpensive, which is an important virtue. Accounting for quality to expense ratio, they'd be very high on the list. They're great rectifiers except for that slight bump in the upper mids, which I find offputting. 

Someone here, when asked what the best EZ80 was, amusingly responded that the best EZ80 is an EZ81. I'm inclined to agree--top two for me are British-made Mullard EZ81s and, above that, British-made Brimar EZ81s (often OEM GE and Sylvania). The British-made Brimar EZ81s are revealing without being fatiguing. They're well balanced, with wonderful bass extension. The mids are luscious and rich. The imaging is complex and layered--holographic--and the soundstage is vast. They're really fast as well. So far, they're my gold standard for rectifiers.

But I've yet to try the Marconi/Osram U709s (EZ81s), which some people swear is the best (but also very pricey and rare these days). Brimar EZ81s are difficult to find since they're highly sought after.

Kef Tesfaye at ValveTubes.com (in England) is a great source for difficult to find tubes--nobody better for British-made tubes.

Anyway, thanks again, lucaskite, for the wonderful guide.


----------



## exchez

Chesterfield said:


> lucaskite's did a wonderful job describing all these tubes. Thank you: I found this very helpful.
> 
> However, re: the Mullard EZ81s--it sounds like he may have gotten a bum pair. In fact, I'd rank the British-made Mullard EZ81s (often OEM Philips Miniwatt) as #2 or 3 on this list. Mine are really quite wonderful. Clean-sounding; expansive sound stage; dynamic; good imaging; well balanced; good speed for micro-details in timbre. Sweet treble.
> 
> ...


I was also pretty disappointed by the Mullard EZ80. Maybe the tubes I have are past their prime, but I found that they took the clarity and musicality from my Amperex ECC88s and presented a muddled soundstage (esp with classical music) compared to my current favorite rectifier, the Ei EZ80. I also tried an RFT EZ81 and was pretty happy listening the classical and piano until I started noticing a serious amount of detail lacking from the low-end of rock songs. I switched back to the Ei EZ80 and it really brought the music back to life. I have a feeling like the Brimar EZ81 could also sound really good my Amperex E88CC and Tung Sol 5998 tubes. Thanks for sharing your impressions!


----------



## jonathan c

🎼🎶🎼…


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> 🎼🎶🎼…


Bro, didn't know you had a WA2...much less a black one !!!  Nice.


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## jonathan c (Sep 16, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Bro, didn't know you had a WA2...much less a black one !!!  Nice.


Thank you…a few weeks old…now with a collection of OTL (Linear Tube Audio MZ3, Schiit Valhalla II, Woo WA2)…it is now fueled by Brimar CV455 KB/FB and GEC CV2984…🎼🎶🎵…(Philips in picture).


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> Thank you…a few weeks old…now with a collection of OTL (Linear Tube Audio MZ3, Schiit Valhalla II, Woo WA2)…it is now fueled by Brimar CV455 KB/FB and GEC CV2984…🎼🎶🎵…(Philips in picture).


Keep your eyes wide open for a pair of GEC6AS7G's.  You_ have_ to go with Big Brother.  Purity.  Everybody will say you can't find a deal on them.  As you know from your adventures, they are incorrect.  The 6080s just tease you with a hint of the glory.


----------



## jonathan c (Sep 16, 2021)

billerb1 said:


> Keep your eyes wide open for a pair of GEC6AS7G's.  You_ have_ to go with Big Brother.  Purity.  Everybody will say you can't find a deal on them.  As you know from your adventures, they are incorrect.  The 6080s just tease you with a hint of the glory.


The power HG !!
Q:  What is the greatest distance that can be spanned in the shortest time?
A:   The 2-3 feet from the ears to the finger on “place order” icon.


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> The power HG !!
> Q:  What is the greatest distance that can be spanned in the shortest time?
> A:   The 2-3 feet between ears and the finger on “place order” icon.


As Marc Lindsay said, it's good thing,  baby.


----------



## Chesterfield

So, an update. I managed to get a pair of the Marconi / Osram / GEC U709 rectifiers. Still trying to get their sound in my head. They've been described as "supercharging" the amp. They're more like British-Made Mullard EZ81s (specifying British because the ones made on the continent are very different) than they are the 1950s British-Made Brimar EZ81, D-Getters. The Brimars have more luscious mids, better bass, and better imaging. And yet there's something to the U709s . . . It's system-dependent, but at the moment, I think I'd give the nod to the Brimar EZ81s as my top rectifier. Too bad mine developed a nasty hum--but thanks to Kes Tesfaye at ValveTubes.com for doing everything he could to address that issue--and for finding me both sets of rare tubes: Brimar EZ81s and Osram U709s.


----------



## Onik (Sep 19, 2021)

I borrowed the new version of WA2 from my friend to test with my Headphones.

Even after Tube rolling didn't get that WOW experience, so I opened the WA2 and had a look inside and found no premium components, but Cheap Caps/Registors.

So I decided to Upgrade all components with better ones, and I wanna make it look similar to this mod:



My friend is not technical and has zero soldering experience so asked me to help, but I'm not really familiar with audio grade caps can anyone suggest me the best Caps that I can upgrade on this amp including the power supply caps with exact same capacitance/voltage.

No Negative reply pls, this Amp was tested with my ears and the new WA2 sounds worse than their old model and I'm sure most new WA2 owners will agree with me.


----------



## vlach

Onik said:


> I borrowed the new version of WA2 from my friend to test with my Headphones.
> 
> Even after Tube rolling didn't get that WOW experience, so I opened the WA2 and had a look inside and found no premium components, but Cheap Caps/Registors.
> 
> ...


I'm interested in upgrading the caps as well and would like to know which ones would be the best to use.


----------



## vlach (Sep 19, 2021)

Onik, i located the photo you posted of the modded WA2, see link below. If you open the link you will see the parts listed just under the photo, here they are:

Jensen .22uF
Sic Safco 470uF
Sprague 330uF
BHC 100uF
IR HEXFRED
RIFA 120uF


https://www.flickr.com/photos/vluo/15942730359

Edit: I notice 4 transistors on the modded amp that i do not see on any other photos.


----------



## vlach (Sep 19, 2021)

Onik, one more thing; since you opened up your friends WA2, can you share a photo so that we can see the differences with the modded one. Thank you.


----------



## vlach (Sep 19, 2021)

Well, the bottom plate has only 6 screws, nothing attached to it and easy to remove so off it went. I expected to see very cheap caps but they look pretty decent actually; black & gold series Nichicons and black Rubycons.
The cheapest ones are usually blue...
I think i will leave it alone.

Edit: my unit is the new version, purchased 11 months ago. The boards show V2.2


----------



## Onik

vlach said:


> Onik, i located the photo you posted of the modded WA2, see link below. If you open the link you will see the parts listed just under the photo, here they are:
> 
> Jensen .22uF
> Sic Safco 470uF
> ...


I have seen that post, also asked the guy/Vincent Luo about the mod, but never received a response


----------



## Onik

vlach said:


> Onik, one more thing; since you opened up your friends WA2, can you share a photo so that we can see the differences with the modded one. Thank you.


----------



## Onik

vlach said:


> Well, the bottom plate has only 6 screws, nothing attached to it and easy to remove so off it went. I expected to see very cheap caps but they look pretty decent actually; black & gold series Nichicons and black Rubycons.
> The cheapest ones are usually blue...
> I think i will leave it alone.
> 
> Edit: my unit is the new version, purchased 11 months ago. The boards show V2.2


The Caps don't look premium to me, especially the Coupling caps, and also the blue registors.

Maybe you are happy with the design but to me it doesn't look like a $1000+ amp.


----------



## jonathan c (Sep 21, 2021)

Has anyone tried the WA2 with the Audeze LCD-4 (200 ohms / 97dB per mw)? At 14 ohms (90dB per mw), the new LCD-5 looks to be out of the question with the WA2.

Edit:  academic question now….Audeze has discontinued the LCD-4…😒


----------



## vlach

Onik said:


> The Caps don't look premium to me, especially the Coupling caps, and also the blue registors.
> 
> Maybe you are happy with the design but to me it doesn't look like a $1000+ amp.


Which ones are the coupling caps?


----------



## cddc

vlach said:


> Which ones are the coupling caps?




These 2 look like output coupling caps.


----------



## cddc

vlach said:


> Which ones are the coupling caps?




The 2 small white caps on the top also look like coupling caps between stages.


----------



## vlach

cddc said:


> The 2 small white caps on the top also look like coupling caps between stages.


I guess the question is will replacing the coupling caps change the overall character and sound signature of the WA2. I have my doubts to be honest but i would be thrilled to be proven wrong.


----------



## Onik

vlach said:


> I guess the question is will replacing the coupling caps change the overall character and sound signature of the WA2. I have my doubts to be honest but i would be thrilled to be proven wrong.


After doing some research I found, that Replacing The two white caps with some Copper Foil Paper Oil Caps will make huge difference to the sound. I assume they are the output coupling caps.


----------



## cddc

Onik said:


> After doing some research I found, that Replacing The two white caps with some Copper Foil Paper Oil Caps will make huge difference to the sound. I assume they are the output coupling caps.




These 2 white caps are coupling caps between the driver stage and the power stage, not output coupling caps.


----------



## Onik

cddc said:


> These 2 white caps are coupling caps between the driver stage and the power stage, not output coupling caps.


good to know then which are the output coupling caps? It could be even easy to understand if I had a circuit diagram of this amp


----------



## cddc (Sep 23, 2021)

Onik said:


> good to know then which are the output coupling caps? It could be even easy to understand if I had a circuit diagram of this amp




I've said it earlier...

Could't see the back side of the output board, so not 100% sure. But I'm 100% sure on the white inter-stage coupling caps, and 90% positive on the said output coupling caps.


----------



## cddc

vlach said:


> I guess the question is will replacing the coupling caps change the overall character and sound signature of the WA2. I have my doubts to be honest but i would be thrilled to be proven wrong.




There are audible differences by rolling these passive components (caps, resistors, etc), but not as pronounced as those active components, such as tubes. So from that I will say lots of caps are way overpriced.


----------



## vlach (Sep 26, 2021)

cddc said:


> These 2 white caps are coupling caps between the driver stage and the power stage, not output coupling caps.


I researched these white coupling caps and they are actually 'suppression film' capacitors, meant to reduce emission and increase the immunity of radio and electromagnetic interference. Thus i'm not sure how much of an impact they have on SQ.

Perhaps replacing the 'output' coupling caps instead would yield more SQ improvement, but i'm just guessing at this point. I believe this amp has been around since 2008, surely there MUST be someone who tinkered/upgraded the caps who could speak for the results...

https://www.mouser.com/new/vishay/vishay-f1773-x2-capacitors/


----------



## cddc

vlach said:


> I researched these white coupling caps and they are actually 'suppression film' capacitors, meant to reduce emission and increase the immunity of radio and electromagnetic interference. Thus i'm not sure how much of an impact they have on SQ.
> 
> Perhaps replacing the 'output' coupling caps instead would yield more SQ improvement, but i'm just guessing at this point. I believe this amp has been around since 2008, surely there MUST be someone who tinkered/upgraded the caps who could speak for the results...
> 
> https://www.mouser.com/new/vishay/vishay-f1773-x2-capacitors/



These are marketing gimmicks, just because those caps possibly have some ability to suppress some interference. Manufacturers can call them heat resistance caps, snow-white caps, gold poo poo caps, or whatever they like. But these are not main functionalities of caps. The main functionality of the 2 white caps is inter-stage coupling.

There are audible differences, as I said earlier, but rolling passive components, such as caps, won't be as significant as rolling tubes. So rolling caps is a very bad idea, as lots of caps are way overpriced IMHO. Unless you think this is gonna be your final amp and you want to max it out, rolling some $60-$200 cap is a bad option.

I think it could be dangerous for you to replace the caps from the questions you asked. If something goes wrong (for example forget to discharge the caps), you might damage your amp...better stay put.


----------



## jonathan c

An amazing combination: Audeze LCD-4 (200 ohms) & Woo WA2 OTL (Mullard EZ81, GEC CV2984, Brimar CV455 KB/FB _Footscray):


_


----------



## Bonddam

I had wa2 now I’m stuck with the drivers and rectifiers. Both are purchased from Woo Audio. Ez Mullard 81and Amperex 6922 gold pins. If not Amperex I have a good amount of 6dj8 tubes, ec88 as well from philips, bel, any interest pm me thanks.


----------



## Onik

jonathan c said:


> An amazing combination: Audeze LCD-4 (200 ohms) & Woo WA2 OTL (Mullard EZ81, GEC CV2984, Brimar CV455 KB/FB _Footscray):_


Did you try LCD-2 with WA 2?


----------



## jonathan c

Onik said:


> Did you try LCD-2 with WA 2?


I do not own LCD-2…


----------



## bpiotrow13

If Anyone is considering a sale of wa2 i would be interested in black version.


----------



## Onik

What kind of Toggle Switch the old/preamp version WA 2 has?

Is it DPDT?


----------



## cddc

Onik said:


> What kind of Toggle Switch the old/preamp version WA 2 has?
> 
> Is it DPDT?




If you just want to toggle the output signal between headphone-out and pre-out, then DPDT should be good enough (4PDT is even better).

But sometimes there can be different circuits between the headphone-out and pre-out, then it's no longer a problem a simple DPDT/4PDT can resolve.

I haven't seen the old version, so don't know how Woo implements its pre-out.


----------



## Onik

cddc said:


> If you just want to toggle the output signal between headphone-out and pre-out, then DPDT should be good enough (4PDT is even better).
> 
> But sometimes there can be different circuits between the headphone-out and pre-out, then it's no longer a problem a simple DPDT/4PDT can resolve.
> 
> I haven't seen the old version, so don't know how Woo implements its pre-out.


I ordered 4PDT from ebay.


----------



## bpiotrow13

cddc said:


> These are marketing gimmicks, just because those caps possibly have some ability to suppress some interference. Manufacturers can call them heat resistance caps, snow-white caps, gold poo poo caps, or whatever they like. But these are not main functionalities of caps. The main functionality of the 2 white caps is inter-stage coupling.
> 
> There are audible differences, as I said earlier, but rolling passive components, such as caps, won't be as significant as rolling tubes. So rolling caps is a very bad idea, as lots of caps are way overpriced IMHO. Unless you think this is gonna be your final amp and you want to max it out, rolling some $60-$200 cap is a bad option.
> 
> I think it could be dangerous for you to replace the caps from the questions you asked. If something goes wrong (for example forget to discharge the caps), you might damage your amp...better stay put.


Hi, just wanted to follow this discussion a bit. I have just bought wa2 (4 years old, with preamp and the preamp switch at the back). The seller says wa2 has no upgrades. I will have it next week but as i would like wa2 to be my ultimate amp i wonder if to make any upgrades.

For now i see it may be worth to change output cap. I see wa2 has teflon wiring. Would it make sense to change into copper? Has anybody tried this?

Many thanks for any thoughts/experiences.


----------



## thecrow

bpiotrow13 said:


> Hi, just wanted to follow this discussion a bit. I have just bought wa2 (4 years old, with preamp and the preamp switch at the back). The seller says wa2 has no upgrades. I will have it next week but as i would like wa2 to be my ultimate amp i wonder if to make any upgrades.
> 
> For now i see it may be worth to change output cap. I see wa2 has teflon wiring. Would it make sense to change into copper? Has anybody tried this?
> 
> Many thanks for any thoughts/experiences.


Aren’t upgrades thru tubes enough?


----------



## bpiotrow13

thecrow said:


> Aren’t upgrades thru tubes enough?


Maybe I just want to 





thecrow said:


> Aren’t upgrades thru tubes enough?


Maybe just wanted to check with others experience. How do i know if this is enogh without checking it may well be such upgrades do not make sense, but i do not know.


----------



## cddc

bpiotrow13 said:


> Hi, just wanted to follow this discussion a bit. I have just bought wa2 (4 years old, with preamp and the preamp switch at the back). The seller says wa2 has no upgrades. I will have it next week but as i would like wa2 to be my ultimate amp i wonder if to make any upgrades.
> 
> For now i see it may be worth to change output cap. I see wa2 has teflon wiring. Would it make sense to change into copper? Has anybody tried this?
> 
> Many thanks for any thoughts/experiences.



Sorry, I am not a believer in cables.

The metal inside Woo's Teflon insulator is most likely copper already, same as most wires inside modern electronic devices. Copper is a very good conductor of electricity, silver is slightly better in terms of conductivity, so some guys do use silver wires instead of copper wires in their amps, but silver wires might sound too bright, that's what I heard.

The change of different wires inside the amp might be hard to discern, the change will be even smaller than changing caps, not to mention tubes.


----------



## bpiotrow13

cddc said:


> Sorry, I am not a believer in cables.
> 
> The metal inside Woo's Teflon insulator is most likely copper already, same as most wires inside modern electronic devices. Copper is a very good conductor of electricity, silver is slightly better in terms of conductivity, so some guys do use silver wires instead of copper wires in their amps, but silver wires might sound too bright, that's what I heard.
> 
> The change of different wires inside the amp might be hard to discern, the change will be even smaller than changing caps, not to mention tubes.


Thanks, i would not like to change just to change. Do You have any experience with changing caps and can suggest something? I guess Woo itself offered Black Gate caps upgrade.


----------



## cddc

bpiotrow13 said:


> Thanks, i would not like to change just to change. Do You have any experience with changing caps and can suggest something? I guess Woo itself offered Black Gate caps upgrade.




Although the changes that caps bring will be much smaller than tubes, caps do have their own sound characteristics. I don't know the brand behind Woo's Black Gate caps, Mundorf/Audio Note/Jensen/etc are normally considered "premium" caps, and are outrageously expensive - very low performance/price ratios.

For more sound characteristics of caps, I recommend you read the following thread, and see if you can find some caps that suit your need.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/orgy-of-capacitors-the-cap-thread.284863/


----------



## bpiotrow13

cddc said:


> Although the changes that caps bring will be much smaller than tubes, caps do have their own sound characteristics. I don't know the brand behind Woo's Black Gate caps, Mundorf/Audio Note/Jensen/etc are normally considered "premium" caps, and are outrageously expensive - very low performance/price ratios.
> 
> For more sound characteristics of caps, I recommend you read the following thread, and see if you can find some caps that suit your need.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/orgy-of-capacitors-the-cap-thread.284863/


Thanks, will go through. May well be not worth the price as i understand.


----------



## MisterMoJo

Is it necessary to have the tubes you buy "balanced" as well as matched for Power tubes on the WA2?  I am thinking about picking some up and the options are: "matched" and also "balanced"  Do I need to do both?  I guess I don't know what "balanced" means.


----------



## bpiotrow13

MisterMoJo said:


> Is it necessary to have the tubes you buy "balanced" as well as matched for Power tubes on the WA2?  I am thinking about picking some up and the options are: "matched" and also "balanced"  Do I need to do both?  I guess I don't know what "balanced" means.


Me neither i guess balanced means they have close emission levels. I know many people ignoring matching and living perfectly happy with that.


----------



## exchez

MisterMoJo said:


> Is it necessary to have the tubes you buy "balanced" as well as matched for Power tubes on the WA2?  I am thinking about picking some up and the options are: "matched" and also "balanced"  Do I need to do both?  I guess I don't know what "balanced" means.


Each tube has two triode sections. When they're balanced each section will produce about the same amount of gain. Some amps use only one tube to amplify the right and left channels thru each triode section. In that case, it's important to have them balanced. The WA2 uses separate tubes for the right and left channels so the tubes only need to be matched against each other, but don't need to be internally balanced.


----------



## MisterMoJo

exchez said:


> Each tube has two triode sections. When they're balanced each section will produce about the same amount of gain. Some amps use only one tube to amplify the right and left channels thru each triode section. In that case, it's important to have them balanced. The WA2 uses separate tubes for the right and left channels so the tubes only need to be matched against each other, but don't need to be internally balanced.


awesome!  thank you!


----------



## Onik (Nov 10, 2021)

I'm almost done with my upgrade, I'm really new to tube circuit design, so I have a question whats the reason for that 100uf Cap to Ground? 


This is how my upgrade looks so far, I had issues with ground loop/hum for that 100uf cap but after soldering to its original ground the hum is gone.


----------



## bpiotrow13

Onik said:


> I'm almost done with my upgrade, I'm really new to tube circuit design, so I have a question whats the reason for that 100uf Cap to Ground?
> 
> This is how my upgrade looks so far, I had issues with ground loop/hum for that 100uf cap but after soldering to its original ground the hum is gone.


Impressive! Let us know how the sound changed


----------



## hodgjy

Onik said:


> I'm almost done with my upgrade, I'm really new to tube circuit design, so I have a question *whats the reason for that 100uf Cap to Ground*?
> 
> This is how my upgrade looks so far, I had issues with ground loop/hum for that 100uf cap but after soldering to its original ground the hum is gone.


It looks like you answered your own question! 

The cap here helps filter out noise, usually high frequency, but it looks like in this design it also helps with mains hum.


----------



## billyleungkt

Hello WA2 guys. I just place my order on wa2. I have read TS5998 is the best currently available. But i also see some variations. 1. Top getter 2. Bottom getter. which is the better one as 2. Is more exp. 

For driver tubes, do you suggest these 2 to get different sound signature? What else i can look for?
1. Amperex 6dj8 bugle boy
2. JAN-Sylvania 7308

Cheers


----------



## Onik (Sep 26, 2022)

complete mod coming soon...


----------



## jclyle

I have a Valhalla 2 along with 12Axx to 6922 adapters, and a stash of 12Axx tubes.
Does the WA2 behave when using these adapters with 12AT7 or 12AU7 tubes? I don't see them listed in the compatibility chart on wooaudio.com


----------



## billerb1

jclyle said:


> I have a Valhalla 2 along with 12Axx to 6922 adapters, and a stash of 12Axx tubes.
> Does the WA2 behave when using these adapters with 12AT7 or 12AU7 tubes? I don't see them listed in the compatibility chart on wooaudio.com


They are all that I use...after going thru so many 6922  types.  My favorites:
*https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274128808004
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/...mium-rft-german-gold-pin-nos-valve-tube-lc39/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325012251227?hash=item4bac3d625b:g:l5AAAOSw-Opg6ygQ*

Bigger, more open sound.  More nuance, much more natural timbre.  More like being in the studio.  Good luck.


----------



## jclyle

Its been about 7 years since I've had a WA2, now I'm debating picking another one up. All I recall from the older one I had was that it was slow, and verrrry tubey sounding. I probably wasn't using the best cans with it at the time, and had a basic DAC...

Now I've got a much better source, and 300ohm cans that would work well with it. There haven't been many recent reviews for WA2, so *I'm curious how the new models perform with rock & roll*. I prefer a fast and detailed sound, and have no problems swapping tubes, its part of the fun to me 

I have 12Axx to 6922 adapters along with Brmiar Footscray's, RFT foil 12AT7s, and other 6922 upgrades ready to pop in if I end up ordering a WA2!


----------



## jonathan c (Feb 15, 2022)

•  The older WA2 had preamp out capability, the newer WA2 do not:  concentration on h/p/a circuitry, I assume.
•  I do get fast and detailed sound and immense soundstage. My current (🤣) tube lineup in the WA2 is: RFT EZ81 foil getter (rectifier); GEC CV5008 (power); RFT ECC81 foil getter (driver). No molasses or treacle sound here! No solid-state sound here either! This lineup has been in place for eight+ months. I have rolled other 6080s and 12AT7s but the RFT EZ81s stay.


----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> •  The older WA2 had preamp out capability, the newer WA2 do not:  concentration on h/p/a circuitry, I assume.
> •  I do get fast and detailed sound and immense soundstage. My current (🤣) tube lineup in the WA2 is: RFT EZ81 foil getter (rectifier); GEC CV5008 (power); RFT ECC81 foil getter (driver). No molasses or treacle sound here! No solid-state sound here either! This lineup has been in place for eight+ months. I have rolled other 6080s and 12AT7s but the RFT EZ81s stay.


Jonathan, I think it's time to step up to the GEC 6AS7G's.  It is.  Me, I'm going to check into those foil getter RFT EZ81's of yours !


----------



## exchez

jonathan c said:


> •  The older WA2 had preamp out capability, the newer WA2 do not:  concentration on h/p/a circuitry, I assume.
> •  I do get fast and detailed sound and immense soundstage. My current (🤣) tube lineup in the WA2 is: RFT EZ81 foil getter (rectifier); GEC CV5008 (power); RFT ECC81 foil getter (driver). No molasses or treacle sound here! No solid-state sound here either! This lineup has been in place for eight+ months. I have rolled other 6080s and 12AT7s but the RFT EZ81s stay.


Ever try the Yellow T 6060's from Brimar? Like the CV455, there's a triple mica version made at the Footscray factory.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jclyle said:


> Its been about 7 years since I've had a WA2, now I'm debating picking another one up. All I recall from the older one I had was that it was slow, and verrrry tubey sounding. I probably wasn't using the best cans with it at the time, and had a basic DAC...
> 
> Now I've got a much better source, and 300ohm cans that would work well with it. There haven't been many recent reviews for WA2, so *I'm curious how the new models perform with rock & roll*. I prefer a fast and detailed sound, and have no problems swapping tubes, its part of the fun to me
> 
> I have 12Axx to 6922 adapters along with Brmiar Footscray's, RFT foil 12AT7s, and other 6922 upgrades ready to pop in if I end up ordering a WA2!


Rectifier has a big part to play with the "slowness" issue.  I've found a world of difference in rectifiers, and they don't even need to be high end.


----------



## jonathan c

exchez said:


> Ever try the Yellow T 6060's from Brimar? Like the CV455, there's a triple mica version made at the Footscray factory.


I have not….they look interesting 🤔…


----------



## billyleungkt

ColSaulTigh said:


> Rectifier has a big part to play with the "slowness" issue.  I've found a world of difference in rectifiers, and they don't even need to be high end.


Agreed. I use a pair of 6CA4 EZ81 Lorenz NOS made in Austria. costed me $25 sounds better than stock EH 6CA4. Drivers and Power tubes have the most effect on SQ and S preference.


----------



## billyleungkt

Power tubes (6080, 6AS7, 5598) comparison. FYR.
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/bottlehead-crack.120/page-3


----------



## exchez

billyleungkt said:


> Power tubes (6080, 6AS7, 5598) comparison. FYR.
> https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/bottlehead-crack.120/page-3


This was a great early resource for me as I was learning about all the different kinds of power tubes, but I think his rating tubes by the high, mid and low method isn't very helpful. By that rubric the Tung Sol 6080 gets about equal marks as the 5998 when the 5998 is a completely different league. I think his amp and headphones may play a big part though. When I listen to my WA2 with Senn 6XX's a lot of the magic just isn't there compared to the T1.


----------



## Onik

Whats the max fixed input Voltage safe to use on WA2?

I'm thinking to use 4V from my Balanced DAC.


----------



## jonathan c

Onik said:


> Whats the max fixed input Voltage safe to use on WA2? I'm thinking to use 4V from my Balanced DAC.


Will you be using the XLR ‘outs’ from your DAC? The WA2 has only RCA ‘ins’. I run Mojo Audio Mystique (5.0v BAL / 2.5v SE) into WA2 on RCA/RCA basis with no problems.


----------



## Onik

jonathan c said:


> Will you be using the XLR ‘outs’ from your DAC? The WA2 has only RCA ‘ins’. I run Mojo Audio Mystique (5.0v BAL / 2.5v SE) into WA2 on RCA/RCA basis with no problems.


Cheers good to know, I got xlr to rca cables so its not a problem. I also checked with my scope that WA 2 clips at around with 6Vpp input voltage.

If you say you used 5v with no problem, then 4V is way to go for me, I also need a bit more Gain for some Headphones.


----------



## billyleungkt

Anyone the power consumption in watts for WA2?


----------



## jonathan c




----------



## billerb1

jonathan c said:


>


Black is beautiful.


----------



## nieveulv

hey all. just purchased the Verite Open headphone from ZMF and loving it!!! However, on my Wa2 it sounded kinda , non 3d for lack of better terms. and mids do tends to come forward a little. My wa2 have the following tubes

- tung sol 7236
- siemens e88cc platinum
- rectifier was modified to solid state due to a broken tube, will be changing these rectifier to new tubes.

What can be done to enhance 3d soundstage and reduce forwardness a little. Any recommended rectifier tubes that helps with this. I'm pretty sure the solid state rectifier may have something to do with the lack of 3dness, and i forgot the sound before the tubes broke. For now I'm thinking either the rft ez80 or the philip miniwatts ez80 as those are easy to get.





Thanks for any helpp.


----------



## exchez

nieveulv said:


> hey all. just purchased the Verite Open headphone from ZMF and loving it!!! However, on my Wa2 it sounded kinda , non 3d for lack of better terms. and mids do tends to come forward a little. My wa2 have the following tubes
> 
> - tung sol 7236
> - siemens e88cc platinum
> ...


I would start with the rft ez80. Then try an EI ez80 over a miniwatt. The EI and miniwatt both use Philips parts, but the EI are cheaper and sound just as nice IMO.


----------



## billyleungkt (Mar 21, 2022)

exchez said:


> I would start with the rft ez80. Then try an EI ez80 over a miniwatt. The EI and miniwatt both use Philips parts, but the EI are cheaper and sound just as nice IMO.


Power: TS 5998
Drivers: amperex orange globe 6dj8 (lusher, punchier), sylvania 7308(more transparent and dynamic)
RT: lorenz ez81 (I have only tried this and it's better than the stock EH6CA4)

All have the 3D effects. Note: I use stock Universe pads.
Pad effect from ZMF website. Just my 2 cents FYR.


----------



## Thaddy

For any WA2 owners that are interested, I have a few pairs of rectifiers (GE and RFT)) and a handful of 6DJ8/6922 tubes that are left over from when I had my WA2.  I was going to list them in the classifieds unless anyone wants to buy the lot in bulk?  Special discounts apply


----------



## nieveulv

Thanks all!! Just purchased the rft ez80 because its so cheap and the universe lambskin pads. Hope will fix some soundstage problems


----------



## helljudgement

nieveulv said:


> Hope will fix some soundstage problems


Did you perhaps listen to verite before your purchase? The verite does seem more '3d' in a sense than other headphones I owned in the past with the universal pads so hopefully that does it for you but it does read to me like you were expecting a different sound from what you are experiencing now.


----------



## nieveulv

helljudgement said:


> Did you perhaps listen to verite before your purchase? The verite does seem more '3d' in a sense than other headphones I owned in the past with the universal pads so hopefully that does it for you but it does read to me like you were expecting a different sound from what you are experiencing now.


The verite sounded alright and had better soundstage using the questyle 800r golden i tested with. Was hoping the tube system would sound more 3d. Not forcing it just trying to achieve optimal setup with my tube amp. My rft ez80 will be arriving soon.


----------



## Onik (Apr 30, 2022)

Whats the best driver tube to pair with MULLARD 6080?

How about E288CC Mullard?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/37376271...pu9DhEdQeq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

anyone had good experience with mullard driver tubes?


I prefer warm and 3d like soundstage with musical high and low.


With my current tube setup it only sounds good with good quality recordings and too honest with badly produced recordings, I have experienced this with Tidal(Hifi/Master) and also offline music from my KANN ALPHA.

Now I have a feeling that the Russian Gold Lion tubes not perfectly matched with Mullard 6080.


Please help me to find me the perfect matching tubes that can give me that WOW experience!

Thanks


----------



## jonathan c

Onik said:


> Whats the best driver tube to pair with MULLARD 6080?
> 
> How about E288CC Mullard?
> 
> ...


I do use the Mullard (black plate, Philips rebranded) 6080s. I use 12AT7 type tubes with adapters. These tubes are Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray) and Mullard ‘gold pin’ 6201. Both will satisfy your preferences.


----------



## Onik

jonathan c said:


> I do use the Mullard (black plate, Philips rebranded) 6080s. I use 12AT7 type tubes with adapters. These tubes are Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray) and Mullard ‘gold pin’ 6201. Both will satisfy your preferences.


Can you describe the sound a little? also any noise issues from these tubes you mentioned?


----------



## jonathan c (Apr 29, 2022)

•  I will go with the last query first. I have had no issues with noise from the tubes. When no music is on and the volume knob is fully turned clockwise, there is a _light_ hum. At my listening levels and half again, no hum. I make sure that all tube pins, all adapter pins, tube sockets are clean (via oxalic acid metal cleaner first with isopropyl alcohol next).
•  The Brimar CV455s are a very dimensional, dynamic, full-frequency tube with a _vast _openness. The Mullard 6201s are _slightly less so_ but are extremely adept, facile in the low bass and mid-bass. When not using either of these two, it is RFT ECC81 ‘foil getter’ time. I have found that a good 12AT7 type tube coaxes much better sound from the WA2 than does a good 6922 / 6DJ8 / 7308 type tube.
•  A point to consider about Woo Audio h/p/a that feature tube rectifiers. In my experience (not the longest by any means), change of rectifier tubes has a _dramatic _effect on the sound. I have been using RFT EZ81 that have ‘foil getters’: very airy, solid imaging, adept purveyors of low-level detail. Highly recommended!


----------



## bpiotrow13

jonathan c said:


> change of rectifier tubes has a _dramatic _effect on the sound. I have been using RFT EZ81 that have ‘foil getters’: very airy, solid imaging, adept purveyors of low-level detail. Highly recommended!


It is indeed a feature of all woo amps (at least wa2, wa22, wa6se i had) that rectifier matters a lot.  I also liked rft ez81. Still have fwo pairs in case i will get back to wa2)


----------



## Onik (May 1, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> 12AT7 type tube coaxes much better sound from the WA2 than does a good 6922 / 6DJ8 / 7308 type tube.


Did you compare with all compatible driver tubes with 12AT7?

If the 12AT7 so much better then why Woo Audio not recommending them?

Do you think I should try with the compatible tubes first before switching to 12AT7?

and what kind of adapter are you using? Where you bought it from UK/US?


----------



## jhljhl (May 1, 2022)

I have 6922 pinched waist tubes available in the classifieds. cheers.


----------



## jonathan c (May 1, 2022)

Onik said:


> Did you compare with all compatible driver tubes with 12AT7?
> 
> If the 12AT7 so much better then why Woo Audio not recommending them?
> 
> ...


•  I have tried Amperex PQ 6922, Amperex PQ 7308, Philips BEL ECC88, Siemens E188CC, Siemens E288CC, Sylvania 6922 (green print).
•  Woo Audio does not _usually _recommend tubes that require an adapter. Woo does make a few adapters for specific use.
•  If you wish. I will say that the use of 12AT7 type tubes + adapters has incurred no sonic penalty: only benefits. The only ‘negative’ is the extra outlay for the adapters.
•  The best adapters for this use are the 12A*7 —> E88CC from Pulse Tube Store (located in India: maker of the adapters offered by Tubemonger). I (and a few other Head-Fiers) have ordered adapters and tubes on numerous occasions from PTS with _no issues_ pertaining to delivery or to product. The longest delivery time (from India to western Pennsylvania) - from order to arrival - has been eleven calendar days.


----------



## jonathan c

Woo Audio WA2 in action 😌:   

…headphones are ZMF Auteur (Stabilised Takwin)…


----------



## Onik (May 7, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> Woo Audio WA2 in action 😌:   …headphones are ZMF Auteur (Stabilised Takwin)…


Those pre tubes adapters looks shiny, and matching with the power tubes 👏🏽

What rectifier, pre & power tubes are they? Is this your ultimate setup and sounds good? If so I might go for it ❕


----------



## jonathan c

Onik said:


> Those pre tubes adapters looks shiny, and matching with the power tubes 👏🏽
> 
> What rectifier, pre & power tubes are they? Is this your ultimate setup and sounds good? If so I might go for it ❕


The rectifier tubes: RFT EZ81 (w/ foil getters);
The power tubes: Mullard / Philips 6080;
The driver tubes: Brimar CV455 (KB/FB - Footscray plant).

Used in rotation are Tung Sol 5998 (power) and RFT ECC81 (driver w/ foil getters).

Sound is: 👍🎼. With no music playing and volume at maximum, _very light hum._ At 1.5x normal listening level, _no hum._ This is my best setup for high impedance headphones: Beyers, Senn, ZMF.


----------



## Onik

jonathan c said:


> The rectifier tubes: RFT EZ81 (w/ foil getters);
> The power tubes: Mullard / Philips 6080;
> The driver tubes: Brimar CV455 (KB/FB - Footscray plant).
> 
> ...


Btw is your 12AT7 to 6922/ECC88 adapters bought from Pulse Tube Store? Or from somewhere else?

asking cause these looks white not silver/copper showing in your post: https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


----------



## jonathan c (May 7, 2022)

Onik said:


> Btw is your 12AT7 to 6922/ECC88 adapters bought from Pulse Tube Store? Or from somewhere else?
> 
> asking cause these looks white not silver/copper showing in your post: https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china


They are the PTS adapters. I peeled off the labels, cleaned the adapter bodies with isopropyl alcohol, then painted the bodies with Testors silver / gold model paint - keeping clear of the adapter pins and sockets!


----------



## Onik

jonathan c said:


> They are the PTS adapters. I peeled off the labels, cleaned the adapter bodies with isopropyl alcohol, then painted the bodies with Testors silver / gold model paint - keeping clear of the adapter pins and sockets!


makes sense now, I wish it was just brown, cus on my brushed aluminium W22 the pre amp tubse has brown base and looks cool so on WA2 it'll look good too.


----------



## OldSkool

Many thanks to Billerb1 for turning me on to the RFT EZ81 foils. 

My rig has NEVER sounded better! Currently I'm running:

Rectifier tubes: RFT EZ81 foil getters
Power tubes: Tung-Sol 5998
Driver tubes: Telefunken ECC801S w/adapters


----------



## Onik (May 11, 2022)

Was looking for Tunsol 5998 in uk but instead found these..

6AS7G A1834 MWT MARCONI:
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/6as7g-a1834-mwt-marconi-nos-boxed-valve-tube/


&

5998A 6AS7G GE NATIONAL BLACK BASE:
https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/5998a-6as7g-ge-national-black-base-nos-valve-tube-lc40/

anyone tried them??


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## James824 (May 20, 2022)

So..I am a month into my new WA2 and gotta say I love it.

About to make some major upgrades to my system (Ayre or McIntosh) digital pre-amp as well as headphones.

The synergy between the WA2 and my HD800 is great.  Can I make it even better with a new set of cans in the 2.5K to 3K range (or am I looking at the law of diminishing  returns) ?

Naturally,* I am limited with the 1/4 standard plug*.  Suggestions are appreciated.


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## jonathan c

James824 said:


> So..I am a month into my new WA2 and gotta say I love it.
> 
> About to make some major upgrades to my system (Ayre or McIntosh) digital pre-amp as well as headphones.
> 
> ...


How about the 1.5K to 3.0K range? How about ZMF (Aeolus, Atrium, Atticus, Auteur*, Eikon*, Verite Closed, Verite Open)?
[* discontinued ==> secondhand]


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## vlach

James824 said:


> So..I am a month into my new WA2 and gotta say I love it.
> 
> About to make some major upgrades to my system (Ayre or McIntosh) digital pre-amp as well as headphones.
> 
> ...


First things first; need to know which DAC is feeding the chain before i can answer your question or make any recommendation.


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## James824

vlach said:


> First things first; need to know which DAC is feeding the chain before i can answer your question or make any recommendation.


McIntosh D100 soon to be replaceced with either Ayre QX8, QX5 Twenty or McIntosh D1100.


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## vlach

James824 said:


> McIntosh D100 soon to be replaceced with either Ayre QX8, QX5 Twenty or McIntosh D1100.


Ok good, those are decent DACs. Just wanted to make sure that wasn't the weak kink before spending on a different headphone.
I have multiple amps & headphones and the HD800/ WA2 combo remains my favorite.
I recently purchased some IEMs and just for fun plugged them into the WA2 expecting the higher output impedance would bloat and muddy the mid-bass and guess what? I doesn't at all and sounds absolutely terrific!
So there you go, there are plenty of options and an IEM is just another way to diversify your collection


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## Onik

I've read good reviews about the German made DAC called RME ADI-2, but never seen people used it for otl amps, anyone have/had any experience with this combo: Adi-2+WA2?


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## Wes S (May 26, 2022)

OldSkool said:


> Many thanks to Billerb1 for turning me on to the RFT EZ81 foils.
> 
> My rig has NEVER sounded better! Currently I'm running:
> 
> ...


Nice!  I have a different amp, but it uses the same rectifier.  Having owned and heard pretty much every EZ81 ever made including the famous G.E.C. U709, the Funkwerk/RFT EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Getter is tops for me.  @billerb1  definitely knows his tubes.  As for the RFT, I have some Foil Getters with stapled plates (later version) and welded plates (earliest version) and the welded are where it's at.

Another EZ81 worth hunting down that gets really close to the RFT WPFG, is the Tungsram EZ81 Welded Plate Foil Getter.  The Tungsram has a bit stronger bass, and lower midrange warmth, but still has excellent transparency and balance.  The top end with this Tungsram is not as airy as is it with the RFT, but the mids and bass are first class no doubt.


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## HeatFan12

It's funny how time and experimentation changes things in this hobby.  I purchased my WA2 in 2009.  Earlier runs.  I can't use 6080 power tubes in it, due to the slot being too small.  Jack widened it through the years though.  But it's fine, I have plenty of 6AS7s and 5998s for her to use.  
Back then, the word was that the rectifiers (EZ80) made the least amount of impact on sound.  The EZ80s were dirt cheap back then.  I purchased a quad of Tunsgram for very cheap, as well as others.
Now, rolling the rectifiers have a big impact.  lol.  Gotta love this hobby. 

After all these years, the WA2 is the only amp I will not sell.

Cheers!!!


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## bpiotrow13

Nice picture Woo looks really cool.



HeatFan12 said:


> I can't use 6080 power tubes in it, due to the slot being too small.


There is quite simple solution to this, simply use socker (slot) saver. It is similar to tube adapter, but it is extending rather than adapting because it is 6as7 in into 6as7 out.

Here is mine:


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## HeatFan12

bpiotrow13 said:


> Nice picture Woo looks really cool.
> 
> 
> There is quite simple solution to this, simply use socker (slot) saver. It is similar to tube adapter, but it is extending rather than adapting because it is 6as7 in into 6as7 out.
> ...




Thanks!


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## Thaddy

For those interested I've got some 6DJ8's, EZ80's, and 6SN7 -> 6DJ8 adapters for sale from my old WA2.


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## James824 (Jun 14, 2022)

post cancelled


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## HeatFan12

After 13 years having the WA2, finally using 6080 power tubes in it.  

Raytheon 6080WBs, Tung Sol 396A/2C51s, Mullard EZ80s on a rainy night in MIA.  Sounding delicious.

Cheers!


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## jonathan c

HeatFan12 said:


> After 13 years having the WA2, finally using 6080 power tubes in it.
> 
> Raytheon 6080WBs, Tung Sol 396A/2C51s, Mullard EZ80s on a rainy night in MIA.  Sounding delicious.
> 
> Cheers!


You have to love those “Yaytheons”….that’s how they make me feel (in WA3 as well) 😄


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## bpiotrow13

HeatFan12 said:


> After 13 years having the WA2, finally using 6080 power tubes in it.
> 
> Raytheon 6080WBs, Tung Sol 396A/2C51s, Mullard EZ80s on a rainy night in MIA.  Sounding delicious.
> 
> Cheers!


Glad You have managed to get the extenders. Where have You bought them?


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## HeatFan12

jonathan c said:


> You have to love those “Yaytheons”….that’s how they make me feel (in WA3 as well) 😄



 Yessss!  Always a Yay factor with the Raytheon bad boys.  




bpiotrow13 said:


> Glad You have managed to get the extenders. Where have You bought them?



Thanks for the help B,

Those are from Amazon.  I also purchased 2 from pulsetubestore.  Will interchange them between WA2 and DV336SE.


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## jonathan c

RFT foil getter EZ81 s, Thomson-CSF 6080WA s, Telefunken ECC801S s, _and _ZMF Atrium (w/Forza Audio Works Noir Hybrid)…🎼😊🎵☁️☁️🌈…


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## Chesterfield

Of all the "gifts" I've bought for myself in my lifetime, I think the WA2 might be my best purchase. Upgraded with good tubes, a few tweaks, and other decent equipment, and it's just transporting. For the thousands upon thousands of hours of pleasure, even euphoria, it's given me, I just can't imagine a better bargain. So thank you, Jack Woo.


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## jonathan c

Chesterfield said:


> Of all the "gifts" I've bought for myself in my lifetime, I think the WA2 might be my best purchase. Upgraded with good tubes, a few tweaks, and other decent equipment, and it's just transporting. For the thousands upon thousands of hours of pleasure, even euphoria, it's given me, I just can't imagine a better bargain. So thank you, Jack Woo.


What tubes etc are you using with your WA2?🙂


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## AudioDuck

Hi WA2 owners,

I love my WA2 so much that I have now started using it as a preamp. It’s now connected to a class A/B power amp (from Odyssey Audio).

QUESTION: When turning on the WA2 (and when turning it off) the tubes pop. It’s not loud enough to harm my speakers, but it’s decently loud and fairly disconcerting (and annoying!)…

Any tips on avoiding this? 

Otherwise I’ll have to starting either turning off the power amp (thus keeping it from staying warmed up/fully ready to play) or disconnecting the interconnects between the amps… 

Thanks in advance!


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## exchez

AudioDuck said:


> Hi WA2 owners,
> 
> I love my WA2 so much that I have now started using it as a preamp. It’s now connected to a class A/B power amp (from Odyssey Audio).
> 
> ...


Could you keep a pair of headphones plugged in then unplug after warmup?


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## AudioDuck

exchez said:


> Could you keep a pair of headphones plugged in then unplug after warmup?


Great suggestion/idea!

Unfortunately the WA2 does not mute the preamp output when headphones are plugged in (strange, I know)… otherwise I would do exactly that. 

If I were an experienced electrical engineer, I’d install a muting relay or something myself. 

Or if Woo Audio did mods to order, I’d happily pay for the modification…


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## vlach

AudioDuck said:


> Hi WA2 owners,
> 
> I love my WA2 so much that I have now started using it as a preamp. It’s now connected to a class A/B power amp (from Odyssey Audio).
> 
> ...


You should be able to avoid the loud pops by turning on the WA2 first, followed by the power amp a few seconds later and reverse the sequence during power off; turn off the power amp first, then turn off the WA2 a few seconds later.


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## exchez

AudioDuck said:


> Great suggestion/idea!
> 
> Unfortunately the WA2 does not mute the preamp output when headphones are plugged in (strange, I know)… otherwise I would do exactly that.
> 
> ...


Darn. In that case the only other thing I can think of is adding a something like a schiit sys between the wa2 and your amp. Adding another component in the chain isn't ideal, but that depends on how annoying reconnecting your rca wires is


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## AudioDuck

vlach said:


> You should be able to avoid the loud pops by turning on the WA2 first, followed by the power amp a few seconds later and reverse the sequence during power off; turn off the power amp first, then turn off the WA2 a few seconds later.


Thank you- I might have to do this, at the risk of always losing some warm-up benefit for my power amp, but no big deal per se for the short term.


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## AudioDuck

exchez said:


> Darn. In that case the only other thing I can think of is adding a something like a schiit sys between the wa2 and your amp. Adding another component in the chain isn't ideal, but that depends on how annoying reconnecting your rca wires is


Thank you! True, that would be an option.

I think the current plan will be to use @vlach ’s suggestion about shutdown/power-up sequence.

Longer term I’ll “bite the bullet” and get a passive preamp (Luminous Audio makes a small/purist one that isn’t expensive per se) that is adjusted for my system. Luminous does that as part of the purchase, so the gain limits of a passive unit aren’t an issue.

While that negates the benefit of having the WA2 as part of my speaker system, I ended up finding such a good power amp that I trust it will sound great with a passive preamp… and the goodness of the tubes will be “reserved” for headphone listening.


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## jonathan c (Aug 31, 2022)

Bliss…


 [RFT EZ81 foil getter, Telefunken ECC801S, Thomson-CSF 6080WA…..ZMF Atrium LTD Cocobolo]


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## jonathan c

The best headphone amp partner that I have for Beyerdynamic DT-880 (600 ohms). The WA2 is sporting pairs of RFT EZ81 (foil getter), Raytheon 6080, Genalex/Gold Lion 6922 (cryo treated):


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## jonathan c

Another mighty ‘tasty’ trio roll for WA2:  RFT EZ81 (foil getter), Raytheon 6080WC, and Mullard 6201 (gold pin) !  Deep deep bass, luscious midrange, breezy treble 😀 ! The HD6XX, via Norne Audio Vygarde, sounds especially good !


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## billerb1 (Oct 12, 2022)

jonathan c said:


> Another mighty ‘tasty’ trio roll for WA2:  RFT EZ81 (foil getter), Raytheon 6080WC, and Mullard 6201 (gold pin) !  Deep deep bass, luscious midrange, breezy treble 😀 ! The HD6XX, via Norne Audio Vygarde, sounds especially good !


It's time to stop messin' around and step up to the Telefunken G73-R.  It's time J.


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## Wes S

billerb1 said:


> It's time to stop messin' around and step up to the Telefunken G73-R.  It's time J.


I concur.


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## jonathan c

Except that it would have to be a pair 😳 ==> kilodollar(s)…


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## jonathan c

Plus: with that black internal damping, there would be no G73-R glow (?) and does look like it was dropped from a Messerschmitt ME109 in WWII…🤪


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## billerb1

jonathan c said:


> Except that it would have to be a pair 😳 ==> kilodollar(s)…


I feel ya bro.  My thoughts exactly before I pulled the trigger.  But after the first 5 minutes I've
never even thought about looking back.  I've sold a bunch of my prior #1's and #2's since to ease
the monetary pain.  Get on with it.  Trust me, you'll thank me later.


----------



## jonathan c

billerb1 said:


> I feel ya bro.  My thoughts exactly before I pulled the trigger.  But after the first 5 minutes I've
> never even thought about looking back.  I've sold a bunch of my prior #1's and #2's since to ease
> the monetary pain.  Get on with it.  Trust me, you'll thank me later.


😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫


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## billerb1 (Oct 13, 2022)

The Great Pennsylvania Tube Sale coming soon !!!!!!!!!  You won't want to play with any of 
your current toys after you hear these.


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## billerb1

Since I moved to the Telefunken G73R's, my former #1 Telefunken ECC801S's (matched pair) are now available in the Classifieds.  Great deal.
PM me.


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## jonathan c




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## David222

Powered on my new WA2 this evening - what a wonderful sound. I've never heard an OTL prior to this. Fantastic     

Rolling:  RFT EZ81 (foil getter), GEC 6080s, Mullard CV4108/7308 (my personal favorites)


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## AudioDuck

David222 said:


> Powered on my new WA2 this evening - what a wonderful sound. I've never heard an OTL prior to this. Fantastic
> 
> Rolling:  RFT EZ81 (foil getter), GEC 6080s, Mullard CV4108/7308 (my personal favorites)


Congratulations- nice setup around the WA2 as well! Glad to hear you are pleased- with those tubes the WA2 definitely would shine! If you are ever interested in using 12AU7/12AT7/12AX7s, the WA2 does exceptionally well with a pair of adapters. 

I was really pleased with going from Amperex PQ (“White Shield”) 7308s to Brimar CV455s (and several other tubes from that family), thanks to @jonathan c . And ultimately I’d be perfectly happy with RFT EZ81s (also foil getters), Tung-Sol USN 7236s, and the Brimar CV455s in my WA2…


----------



## David222

AudioDuck said:


> Congratulations- nice setup around the WA2 as well! Glad to hear you are pleased- with those tubes the WA2 definitely would shine! If you are ever interested in using 12AU7/12AT7/12AX7s, the WA2 does exceptionally well with a pair of adapters.
> 
> I was really pleased with going from Amperex PQ (“White Shield”) 7308s to Brimar CV455s (and several other tubes from that family), thanks to @jonathan c . And ultimately I’d be perfectly happy with RFT EZ81s (also foil getters), Tung-Sol USN 7236s, and the Brimar CV455s in my WA2…



Thank you!  Yes, at some point I'll definitly roll (via adapter) my Brimar CV455 KB/FBs...Footscray all the way!   

And, yes many thanks to @jonathan c for great advice along the way - you can see his influence above


----------



## Onik

Where can I get RFT EZ81s(foil getters)?

Is this the right one?: https://www.hotroxuk.com/rft-ez81-rectifier.html

and why foil getter is better?


----------



## exchez

Onik said:


> Where can I get RFT EZ81s(foil getters)?
> 
> Is this the right one?: https://www.hotroxuk.com/rft-ez81-rectifier.html
> 
> and why foil getter is better?





Onik said:


> Where can I get RFT EZ81s(foil getters)?
> 
> Is this the right one?: https://www.hotroxuk.com/rft-ez81-rectifier.html
> 
> and why foil getter is better?


I think most people wait until they see them on eBay or some classifieds board. I don't see a picture for those specific tubes so I can't say for certain, but probably not. The getters are the most obvious way of spotting which production era a tube comes from so something specific about the foil getter era makes for a better sounding tube. YMMV though. I haven't listened to my WA2 with the EZ81 foils, but the halo getter RFT EZ81 sounds inferior to any RFT EZ80 I've tried.


----------

