# Lotoo PAW S1 - Designed for HIFI on the go with Lotoo PAW quality and the first USB DAC-AMP with dual 3.5mm & 4.4mm output



## DavidS11

This is a dedicated thread for discussions and user experience on the new Lotoo PAW S1.

From the Lotoo FB page:

Featuring Lotoo’s advanced DAP architecture from the PAW Lineup, the Lotoo PAW S1 has been created to raise the bar to previously unknown heights in the field of Portable USB DACs. Easy PLUG-&-PLAY installation for a hassle-free setup turns your smartphone into a high-resolution music player in no time!

High-Performance and High Utilization of the AKM4377 DAC chip
4.4 Balanced & 3.5 Single-Ended Dual Output Design
120mW@32Ω (per channel), great for headphones and IEMs uses alike
Multiple OS Supported (PC, Mac, Android and iOS)
Built-In Studio Quality PMEQ/ATE to create an immersive soundstage (including new pre-sets: Game and Movie)
Gain Control to accommodate a wider range of headphones and IEMs
Pure Black Background
OLED Screen and CNC Crafted Aluminium Alloy Body for better Build and Ergonomics


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## musicday

You forgot to mention that it supports firmware updates and more features will be added in time.


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## DavidS11

musicday said:


> You forgot to mention that it supports firmware updates and more features will be added in time.



yes, firmware updatable with promised of future update to enable MQA too

Free feel to add/comments any other info. No official spec released from Lotoo yet.


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## musicday (May 19, 2020)

The power output in single ended is 70 mW@32 ohm just like the Hidizs AP80 Pro. Impressive.

*SPECIFICATIONS 
Supported Format:* PCM 32K-384KHz DSD64/DSD128 

*Weight:* 27.10g 

*Size:* 66mm*22mm*13mm 

*Max Output:* 3.5mm:70mW/ch @32Ω 

                      4.4mm:120mW/ch @32Ω 

*HP Port:* 3.5mm Unbalanced 

               4.4mm Balanced 

*Freq. range:* 3.5mm: 20-20KHz..+0/-0.017dB 

                      4.4mm: 20-20KHz..+0/-0.016dB 

*USB Port:* USB Type C 

*Noise Level:* 3.5mm: -118dBu 

                     4.4mm: -114dBu 

*Screen:* OLED 128x32 

*THD+N.. Low gain:* -106dB(0.0005%) 

*High gain:* -108dB(0.0004%) 

OS.. LTOS 

*S/N:* 3.5mm: 123dB 

         4.4mm: 122dB


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## Lu88

FYI:

Japanese official product page
http://lotoo.jp/PAWS1_Overview.html

Japanese support page(firmware download)
http://lotoo.jp/Manual_PAWS1.html

The latest firmware 1.0.0.5 changelog:
- New feature: Added "Radio" preset to ATE(EFX)
- Fixed: L/R is reversed at 3.5mm output during DSD playback. 

How to update firmware:
1. Connect PAW S1 to PC in firmware update mode
Hold down the "Fn" button on PAW S1 and connect to the PC with the USB cable.
“Waiting” appears on the display and the PAW S1 is recognized as a removable disk by the PC.

2. Transfer the firmware to PAW S1
Copy PAW-S1.coe (firmware file) to the root directory of the removable disk.
The firmware update will start automatically, and when it finishes, the PAW S1 will display “Successful” and the removable disk will be automatically derecognized.

3. Disconnect PAW S1 from PC
Unplug the USB cable and disconnect the PAW S1 from the PC. The firmware update is now complete.


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## jeffri

Still waiting for mine, can't wait. Already made 4.4mm cable for my IEM in preparation for this.


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## Lu88 (May 25, 2020)

Lu88 said:


> FYI:
> 
> Japanese official product page
> http://lotoo.jp/PAWS1_Overview.html
> ...



And here is in Chinese.
http://www.lotoo.cn/pro/pro2/PAW_S1/
http://www.lotoo.cn/about/fuwu/xiazaizhuanqu/yinlebofangqi/20200519/94.html


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## musicday

jeffri said:


> Still waiting for mine, can't wait. Already made 4.4mm cable for my IEM in preparation for this.


I would like to get a DIY 4.4 mm cable for my modified Koss Porta Pro. Any idea where I should look?


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## davidmolliere

Eagerly waiting for mine, it's on its way!


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## mashuto

Does anyone have one of these in hand yet? I recently decided to pick up a creative sxfi amp instead of this as I originally intended it for much more casual listening, and also to be used for tv shows/movies. I know it only shares the same dac chip with this, so probably not a great comparison. But it hisses pretty badly with my new solaris 2020, and I think the amp portion there isnt the greatest as with the ifi iematch, full volume is still not that loud. So I am wondering how the noise floor is on this, especially with much more sensitive IEMs. I may pick one up anyways, but would prefer not to spend the extra money if its going to hiss.


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## musicday

mashuto said:


> Does anyone have one of these in hand yet? I recently decided to pick up a creative sxfi amp instead of this as I originally intended it for much more casual listening, and also to be used for tv shows/movies. I know it only shares the same dac chip with this, so probably not a great comparison. But it hisses pretty badly with my new solaris 2020, and I think the amp portion there isnt the greatest as with the ifi iematch, full volume is still not that loud. So I am wondering how the noise floor is on this, especially with much more sensitive IEMs. I may pick one up anyways, but would prefer not to spend the extra money if its going to hiss.


Lotoo products are one of the best in the market,.so you should not worry about hiss. There should be completely quiet background.


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## Wyville

mashuto said:


> Does anyone have one of these in hand yet? I recently decided to pick up a creative sxfi amp instead of this as I originally intended it for much more casual listening, and also to be used for tv shows/movies. I know it only shares the same dac chip with this, so probably not a great comparison. But it hisses pretty badly with my new solaris 2020, and I think the amp portion there isnt the greatest as with the ifi iematch, full volume is still not that loud. So I am wondering how the noise floor is on this, especially with much more sensitive IEMs. I may pick one up anyways, but would prefer not to spend the extra money if its going to hiss.


I tried it with my Phantom and it was dead silent even on high gain. @twister6 also tried the Solaris and did not get any hiss with those either.


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## rcoleman1

Waiting to try it with my EE Zeus XIV 4.4mm balanced. Got my shipping notification so we should have lots of early impressions soon.


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## musicday

Let's see who are the.lucky ones to get the free apple cable.


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## mashuto

musicday said:


> Lotoo products are one of the best in the market,.so you should not worry about hiss. There should be completely quiet background.


Good to know, but lots of high end players still hiss with sensitive gear, not necessarily a quality thing, more just about how they are designed.



Wyville said:


> I tried it with my Phantom and it was dead silent even on high gain. @twister6 also tried the Solaris and did not get any hiss with those either.


Also good to hear. Early impressions I have been reading have been quite good.


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## davidmolliere

musicday said:


> Let's see who are the.lucky ones to get the free apple cable.



I know I am getting one as I was one of the first pre-order at MusicTeck 
The first 50 will get one from what Andrew told me.


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## jeffri

musicday said:


> I would like to get a DIY 4.4 mm cable for my modified Koss Porta Pro. Any idea where I should look?



Mine was DIY from a local cable maker here. Not sure about other cable company to recommend, sorry.



mashuto said:


> Does anyone have one of these in hand yet? I recently decided to pick up a creative sxfi amp instead of this as I originally intended it for much more casual listening, and also to be used for tv shows/movies. I know it only shares the same dac chip with this, so probably not a great comparison. But it hisses pretty badly with my new solaris 2020, and I think the amp portion there isnt the greatest as with the ifi iematch, full volume is still not that loud. So I am wondering how the noise floor is on this, especially with much more sensitive IEMs. I may pick one up anyways, but would prefer not to spend the extra money if its going to hiss.



I have the SXFI, it certainly not that good for use with sensitive IEM. It's a good pair with full size headphones that isn't hard to drive. I enjoyed using it for watching movie, but not so much for music as I don't think it sounds clean enough.

When my S1 arrives, I'll give them a quick comparison.


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## AlexCBSN

Awesome! We’ve got a thread, mine is coming sometime next week I hope, I ordered a cable with it, though the shop told me that the cable would take one day longer since they had to order it (though they promised 3 days... fingers crossed) nevertheless I’m pretty happy I got the s1; I might not have cash for a ltp 6k but I can live with this one


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## mashuto

Well, decided it wasn't such a big expense so I could take a chance on it. I'm sure I'll get use out it. Here's hoping it's quiet enough with sensitive iems.


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## musicday

Mine is coming in couple of days. Anyone else got his?


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## thesheik137




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## AlexCBSN

thesheik137 said:


>


Nicee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## musicday

Quality stuff, congratulations, tell us how it sounds.


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## thesheik137

Sounds still retains the Lotoo signature, big soundstage and reference quality. ATE/EQ setting are yet to be explored, but those are always fun. Absolutely no hiss from senstive IEMs from 4.4mm output. Just a little bit of EMI niggling occasionally when not playing music. Not that I have tried many, but I doubt any other dongles comes to this level of sound...


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## soundblast75

Mine’s coming Tuesday, can compare to Cobalt before i sell it


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## musicday

soundblast75 said:


> Mine’s coming Tuesday, can compare to Cobalt before i sell it


Lol, mine is already in East Midlands and they said will deliver it Tuesday, but I may get it tomorrow.


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## musicday

thesheik137 said:


> Sounds still retains the Lotoo signature, big soundstage and reference quality. ATE/EQ setting are yet to be explored, but those are always fun. Absolutely no hiss from senstive IEMs from 4.4mm output. Just a little bit of EMI niggling occasionally when not playing music. Not that I have tried many, but I doubt any other dongles comes to this level of sound...


Did you update the firmware to 1.0.0.5 ?


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## thesheik137

musicday said:


> Did you update the firmware to 1.0.0.5 ?


Of course


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## soundblast75

What’s in the new firmware?Sorry if already mentioned


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## davidmolliere

musicday said:


> Mine is coming in couple of days. Anyone else got his?



Us Europeans will need to wait a bit, same as you... pretty eager to get it


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## mwhals

soundblast75 said:


> What’s in the new firmware?Sorry if already mentioned



From Facebook:


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## musicday

soundblast75 said:


> Mine’s coming Tuesday, can compare to Cobalt before i sell it


Are you getting the Solaris 2020? I know you owned and liked the previous model.


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## soundblast75

musicday said:


> Are you getting the Solaris 2020? I know you owned and liked the previous model.


No, i have jvc fw10000 and acoustune hs1695ti, both total and utter endgame iem


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## mashuto

I ordered the s1 a few days ago. Tracking says Tuesday, but it's pretty close already so who knows. I do have the Solaris 2020 so I'll be able to give some impressions with that after it shows up.


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## ngd3 (May 21, 2020)

Just got mine in, 5 minute impression from my laptop and Note 10 - probably best portable USB dac/amp I've tried! Nice screen and great UI, no hissing on high gain with 64 Trios, fun eq options but some are terrible. Headphone eq seems like a winner.

I'll listen more tonight but it seems like a keeper


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## thesheik137

ngd3 said:


> Just got mine in, 5 minute impression from my laptop and Note 10 - probably best portable USB dac/amp I've tried! Nice screen and great UI, no hissing on high gain with 64 Trios, fun eq options but some are terrible. Headphone eq seems like a winner.
> 
> I'll listen more tonight but it seems like a keeper



With previous Lotoo products I would occasionally rotate through headphone, sweet and dental.
Radio preset is hilariously bad though, makes all your music lo-fi, if you're into that.


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## darkxvx

Just received mine. Works instantly when I plugged it into my MacBook and iPhone.


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## AlexCBSN (May 22, 2020)

darkxvx said:


> Just received mine. Works instantly when I plugged it into my MacBook and iPhone.


Are you doing the firmware update mode through macOs or going through windows ?


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## darkxvx

AlexCBSN said:


> Are you doing the firmware update mode through macOs or going through windows ?


macOS. Both OS are supported (based on instructions in the firmware download).


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## davidmolliere

Oh PAW S1 out for delivery, hope they do deliver before I have to leave... was scheduled monday...


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## DavidS11

Just picked it up. No time to try yet as am swarm with work atm


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## musicday

davidmolliere said:


> Oh PAW S1 out for delivery, hope they do deliver before I have to leave... was scheduled monday...


Same here, with delivery courier as per last update at 09:12, but was meant to come Tuesday.


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## Layman1

thesheik137 said:


> Radio preset is hilariously bad though, makes all your music lo-fi, if you're into that.



Perhaps that's the point? Could be going for that old retro sound feeling. 

I haven't tried it yet, but I'd say Lotoo have pretty comprehensively demonstrated that they know how to make good sounding stuff.
I'm sure there's a logic and a reason behind the new setting and will get round to trying it soon. 
Who knows? Maybe my vintage guess is right! Just need to add some crackles and static and I'm good to go 
I think it's been done with Vinyl filters on other DAPs already?


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## davidmolliere (May 22, 2020)

And it's here 

Thanks to Musicteck for the speedy delivery as usual  









It's a tad smaller than I expected from pics...

First impression very clean, black background, the S1 packs good punch and more power than I would have thought with IEMs low gain is perfect and you have headroom...
High gain I guess will drive headphones, don't have any to test it with.

Soundstage is more LP6K like than LPGT, the transparency and detail retrieval are not in the same league obviously but it will be a closer call to LP6K and that's a fantastic performance in itself. I kind of find it's a punchier presentation with a bit more "meat" than LPGT so maybe a tad north of neutral. More bass kick than LPGT, and fuller lower mids, less refinement up top than LPGT and LP6K means lesser resolution and air soundstage more compact but still pretty nice.

Need more time but impressive...

Bitrate are correct with Tidal Master, which is great!


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## 8481

Can’t get for them, just placed an order in today.


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## musicday (May 22, 2020)

Congratulations everyone. My S1 is 16 stops away.


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## JimJim

😭 still waiting mine.


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## Mitr1anton

Excellent quality product !


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## TonySunshine

Hi does anyone know how the PMEQ/ATE works? Are those just preset eq profiles?


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## mwhals

How much do these dongle daps consume a smartphone's battery? Thinking about getting the S1 for a compact system to take with me to work each day once I am not working from home.


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## Def1side

TonySunshine said:


> Hi does anyone know how the PMEQ/ATE works? Are those just preset eq profiles?


yes, just presets , but it's amazing sounding. I dont know if i'm wrong, but my first impresion is that it sounds better than the chord mojo (better separation, transparacy, blacker background)


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## bflat

mwhals said:


> How much do these dongle daps consume a smartphone's battery? Thinking about getting the S1 for a compact system to take with me to work each day once I am not working from home.



That's difficult to say since there are a lot of variables. However, in worst case scenario we can conclude the following for iOS - max current on lightning cable is 100 mA so at 5V that is 500 mW power draw. Most iPhones have around 3000 mWH batteries so worst case is about 17% battery loss per hour for just the dongle. However, in real use and normal volume level, it should be well below this theoretical number. Even if real power usage is 50% of max, that only amounts to around 8% battery per hour. In my previous use of various iOS compatible dongles, I think my actual was closer to 6%, but I also only play AAC tracks from my phone. Lossless and hi res files will consume more battery.


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## davidmolliere (May 22, 2020)

@bflat Thanks for the calculations 

I will look out for is how much battery drain the IPhone takes with the S1 tonight and check this real life with around 45/50 volume low gain which is what I used for IEMs so far


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## bflat (May 22, 2020)

I've been trying out the S1 for the past few hours and overall pleased with the sound and will comment on that later. However, here are a few tips on functionality:

1) If your source is full USB-C compliant, you don't need a special OTG cable. Any USB-C to USB-C will work because USB-C has built in OTG. I'm just using a basic Amazon USB-C cable on my MacBook Pro and works fine, as does iPad Pro.

2) If your source is not USB-C, then you will need an OTG cable with the host end being whatever your source connector is. The included USB A to USB-C is an OTG adapter for USB A sources. If you end up needing a different kind of OTG cable, make sure you get one that provides power.

3) There is no software volume control. Volume must be adjusted with the buttons on the S1. This is great because the increments are finer than software controls.

4) Firmware updates are really simple. You just hold down the function key and plug the S1 into your PC/Mac. This puts the S1 in storage mode so it shows up as removable storage in your OS. Just copy the firmware file to the root directory and the S1 takes care of it from there in about 3 seconds and the display will say "Successful". Unplug and you are done.

5) EQ is only presets. You cannot customize.

6) There is no case included.

7) I got the promotional Lightning adapter and it is Lotoo branded and works great. It is an OTG adapter so you can't use the adapter to charge your iPhone since it designed to provide power, not consume power.

8) Default out of box output on mine was set to high so you will want to check and also lower the volume all the way down before you start listening for the first time. After that, it will retain whatever you last set it too.

Overall fit and finish are excellent and definitely feel higher than the price would suggest. Only comment I'll make for sound at this early stage is I hear no hiss on my EE Wraith (4 ohm) which is the most sensitive IEM I have.


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## thomaspf

I have been listening for a day and a half testing it with my travel setup which are modded JVC HA-FD01 and that sounds pretty good. It works flawless on my Windows laptop with all supported bitrates.

On my Galaxy S20 I am only getting it to work with my powerbank which has an integrated USB hub. My default Neutron player only works with the default Android driver resampling everything to 48Khz. The custom direct USB driver in USB Audio player pro works correctly allowing for bit perfect including DOP.

 I like what I am hearing. It compares to my Hugo 2 at a much smaller form factor. It has enough power to drive the Focal Utopia quite nice.

So good initial impression with some minor hick-ups on interoperability...

Cheers

   Thomas


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## DavidS11

Just started listening to the S1. Initial impression for me is the sound from 4.4 output is so much better than the 3.5 output. I’m hearing more solid bass and the sound is much more open and higher clarity. I’ll have to let it run a bit more and see if there is any changes.


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## mashuto

Just got mine in and hooked it up to my phone. First impressions are good. Maybe slightly warmer by default than my n6ii with e01, but technically it seems to be performing well. Hard for me to judge as a comparison, but it definitely sounds good.

Running my Solaris 2020 single ended. Happy to report no hiss at all as far as I can tell.

As someone else already mentioned, android kinda sucks for this since the android audio stack does its own resampling. At least mine seems to be locked at 44.1 instead of 48, though it is 24 bit. Either way, hopefully any actual resampling is minimal.

Nice that it has its own volume control, though the buttons are not super responsive which is annoying, not to mention that at least on Android with the normal android audio stack, system volume is also taken into account, so gotta remember to max out the volume on my phone first.

Would be nice to have more control over the eq, but still nice to have it. Though also would be nice to have more descriptions about what exactly each setting does.

Also haven't updated the firmware yet.


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## goatkidbaahcity

Just got mine:

*The good:*

*Build quality is great, nice and solid
*Dead silent with my Solaris SE, plenty of power at low gain
*Immediately worked with my iphone, no issues whatsoever
*Firmware update was dead easy
*Lots of volume steps, and as best I can tell it ignores your iphone volume, and only uses the volume controls on the S1, so no accidentally knocking the side of the phone and cranking your volume way up

*The bad:*
Why did Lotoo advertise this as having PMEQ and ATE???? 

All I see are the usual ATE stuff, and no option to create a PMEQ profile. I bought this specifically to use the PMEQ profiles from my PAW 5000 mk2 with my iphone, if I can't do that this is getting returned. I was curious and wanted to see if dropping a pmeq.bin export from my Paw 5000 into the S1 file system would let me use it, the answer is no......


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## twister6

goatkidbaahcity said:


> Just got mine:
> 
> *The good:*
> 
> ...



They *only* mentioned it comes with PMEQ and ATE presets, they never said it is capable of doing the actual Parametric EQ adjustment and saving PMEQ presets, right?  How would you even adjust it on a tiny screen like that with such limited controls.  Unless, if they can make an app to do PMEQ adjustments remotely and save it on S1.  But they didn't promise that either.  I know, wishful thinking, just like I wish they would have BT Wireless connection


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## musicday

Did anyone tried it with the Meze Rai Penta on balanced mode? This USB DAC is more capable then I have ever thought, but that's no surprise since is made by Lotoo and powered by Infomedia.￼


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## goatkidbaahcity (May 22, 2020)

twister6 said:


> They *only* mentioned it comes with PMEQ and ATE presets, they never said it is capable of doing the actual Parametric EQ adjustment and saving PMEQ presets, right? How would you even adjust it on a tiny screen like that with such limited controls. Unless, if they can make an app to do PMEQ adjustments remotely and save it on S1. But they didn't promise that either. I know, wishful thinking, just like I wish they would have BT Wireless connection



At least to me, and I suspect most people, PMEQ doesn't mean "you can cycle through a bunch of presets" it means it has a usable parametric equalizer..... *Especially *in the context of Lotoo, who has been selling all of their products with the same ATE/PMEQ system for 5+ years. Just emailed them to see if they intend to support the export/import system they have with their other devices, don't see why they wouldn't.


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## JimJim

For those considering charging phone + Lotoo Paw S1


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## thomaspf

I use a similar setup on my travel rig. Combined powerbank and hub from ZMI. 

Cheers

  Thomas


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## musicday

The output sample bit rate is not always accurate. For example when playing 24/192 will show 32/192.
Anyone else noticed?


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## rcoleman1

musicday said:


> The output sample bit rate is not always accurate. For example when playing 24/192 will show 32/192.
> Anyone else noticed?


Yup...I noticed. Wondered if it was some sort of upsampling or something else happening.


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## Def1side

Can someone who own mojo and paw s1 can compare sound quality? My impresion is that lotoo sounds better...please tell me if i’m wrong


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## davidmolliere (May 23, 2020)

So after half a dozen hours of use : @bflat was right, around 7% battery drain per hour with low gain and volume 50.
That's pretty good IMHO.



Def1side said:


> Can someone who own mojo and paw s1 can compare sound quality? My impresion is that lotoo sounds better...please tell me if i’m wrong



I have owned Mojo for a long while and not anymore but even if I love the S1 I think Mojo is logically a step better in pure technicalities, even from memory that's pretty clear to me. Now tuning wise, the S1 has more treble energy and overall more punch. Mojo is smoother to me. I'll let those who can actually A/B confirm. The fact that we're comparing to much pricier and bigger form factor sources shows that Lotoo delivered a winner IMHO.



rcoleman1 said:


> Yup...I noticed. Wondered if it was some sort of upsampling or something else happening.



Bitrate are accurate, but bit depth seems to be stuck at 32bits indeed.


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## yong_shun

Here’s my unboxing!


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## soundblast75

Loving mine, but it is not a clear step up from Cobalt, which is sweeter and a bit more reference sounding to these ears, bass is more on S1 and i like the tuning a lot, great product and thanks to Andrew @musictek again👍


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## bmoregnr

davidmolliere said:


> Bitrate are accurate, but bit depth seems to be stuck at 32bits indeed.


I am guessing this might be a volume related thing, so everything is 32 bits such that digital volume would never cause anything to be below a 24 bit depth.  Just a guess of course.


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## musicday

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lotoo-paw-s1-usb-dac-amp-impressions-thread.933037/

Not sure if was needed, the impressions thread for Lotoo Paw S1.


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## bflat

Sound impressions - unfortunately I have never listened to a Lotoo source before so can't comment on similarities there. However, I think the tonality of the S1 is similar to what Sony does - more organic and fluid versus sharp and technical. Not talking night and day difference but I think it's fair to say the S1 goes with more musical than technical. As for a more apples to apples comparison with DFR here are my comparisons:

DFR has more sub bass and top end sparkle. However, I wouldn't say that's a good thing unless you want a "U" shaped FR. S1 is more neutral which gives a better balance to the mids.
Sound stage is pretty decent on the S1. You get nice 3 dimensional sound, but smaller overall than higher end devices. DFR on the other hand is very intimate and pretty much just 2 dimensional.
Now here is the interesting thing - the above notes are playing compressed AAC files because that's how I intend to use the S1 with Apple Music and Netflix. Honestly on the DFR I can't tell the difference with AAC or lossless most of the time. With S1, when I tried with my lossless library and bit perfect player (Audirvana), it's like I'm listening to a different device. Everything is just more:

Sub bass goes really deep with control and texture.
Mids get a touch more detail in the upper frequencies
Highs get more separation and detail, but still remain organic
So in brief, the S1 most definitely scales with better player software (bit perfect) and lossless files. I think the player software is the bigger driver though. I would highly recommend folks give this a try with a premium player - JRiver, Audirvana, Roon, Foobar, etc. If Lotoo eventually provides an ASIO driver for Windows, even better.

S1 is the best dongle I've owned so far with COZOY Aegis and DFR being the other 2 and still have those. I am a fan of dongles for the ease of use and negligible drain on portable device batteries. When you consider cost, S1 blows away the competition. I'm curious how the Cobalt compares but at 2X the price I can't imagine the performance ratio is better.


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## musicday

bmoregnr said:


> I am guessing this might be a volume related thing, so everything is 32 bits such that digital volume would never cause anything to be below a 24 bit depth.  Just a guess of course.


Maybe the next firmware will fix that to give an accurate reading.


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## HiFlight

musicday said:


> The output sample bit rate is not always accurate. For example when playing 24/192 will show 32/192.
> Anyone else noticed?


i have also noticed the info differing from that displayed on my source. Bitrate seems to always display "32b"
I noticed no difference after the firmware update. Sample rate seems to be correct.


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## bmoregnr (May 23, 2020)

bflat said:


> Sound impressions - unfortunately I have never listened to a Lotoo source before so can't comment on similarities there. However, I think the tonality of the S1 is similar to what Sony does - more organic and fluid versus sharp and technical. Not talking night and day difference but I think it's fair to say the S1 goes with more musical than technical. As for a more apples to apples comparison with DFR here are my comparisons:
> 
> DFR has more sub bass and top end sparkle. However, I wouldn't say that's a good thing unless you want a "U" shaped FR. S1 is more neutral which gives a better balance to the mids.
> Sound stage is pretty decent on the S1. You get nice 3 dimensional sound, but smaller overall than higher end devices. DFR on the other hand is very intimate and pretty much just 2 dimensional.
> ...


I just got done with a 40 minute S1 vs DFR comparison, also compressed AAC out of iphone as that is where I use this setup when not bringing a DAP, and I agree with your comparisons.  I would say the DFR probably only has 20-30 hours on it having had a DFB prior to it, so in that sense a fairly fair comparison hours wise maybe, and for my money the S1 kind of wiped the floor with the DFR.  It is a taste thing for sure, but the DFR is thin/glassy stiff in my mind; very linear across the whole spectrum and as such easy to lose the plot with a dash to top-end sparkle thrown in as you say. I appreciated the DFR's accuracy and top end sparkle vs. the DFB maybe but it doesn't come close to overall balance and musicality of the S1 where the mids come in real well and the bass stands out nicely below that.  The highs are more integrated with the upper mids but that works for me as I tend to like this approach generally.


----------



## jeffri

Congrats to everyone who already had the S1. Dang, still waiting for mine... 

I still have my Mojo here, so I could try to compare between the two.


----------



## muths66

anyone can share the eq part.i only saw preset that is provided by lotoo.


----------



## mwhals

muths66 said:


> anyone can share the eq part.i only saw preset that is provided by lotoo.



There is only presets. The S1 does not have a user adjustable EQ.


----------



## HiFlight (May 23, 2020)

muths66 said:


> anyone can share the eq part.i only saw preset that is provided by lotoo.


While no user adjustable presets are available, the 17 Lotoo presets do not sound artificial or strange.  They do, however,  have subtle and tasteful differences.  Some of the more unusual ones are near field, far field, analog, radio and dental (not sure of what it means, but sounds nice).  The second press of the Fn button displays the list of presets.  Scrolling is accomplished by the + or - button.  Whatever preset is currently showing on the screen become the active preset.  There is also a "Flat" preset.


----------



## AlexCBSN

mwhals said:


> There is only presets. The S1 does not have a user adjustable EQ.


Yet... hopefully we’ll be able

I’m So excited for this one, the only other dac that I think can compete might be the e1da gen3, will see in a couple of weeks  want to place an order for the e1da and gl20 golden planar


----------



## muths66

AlexCBSN said:


> Yet... hopefully we’ll be able
> 
> I’m So excited for this one, the only other dac that I think can compete might be the e1da gen3, will see in a couple of weeks  want to place an order for the e1da and gl20 golden planar


i using gl20 on powerdacv2.


----------



## subguy812 (May 23, 2020)

SQ is super good from this dongle. I have the iBasso DC01 which is 2.5mm(I am pretty much entrenched in 2.5mm). I also have a couple of 3.5mm dongles, the one included with Luna and lesser ones from Samsung and Google. I use it with a Samsung S20 Ultra and will use it with my Surface. I do not use iPhone so I can't comment on it. I do have a 4.4mm Male to 2.5mm Female adapter, so all of my bases are covered.

I started out with L Gain and have since migrated to H, I enjoy the additional dynamism. It appears to have a black background, I have tried it with OG Solaris and Solaris 2020. As I write this I am listening to Luna.

The SQ is smooth and organic and it does have power and will give it a go with my full-sized headphones soon. The stage has nice width and on neutral settings I do not hear a ton of coloration.

I am never a fan of presets, but I have dabbled a bit, but feel for the most part I will use none. Headphone and Dental sound good, but so does None. I see how an EQ could be implemented but it would be a lot of button pushing.

On Android, USB Player Pro works flawlessly and recognizes S1.


----------



## twister6

Yesterday I spent an hour testing S1 with dozens of DAPs and my Galaxy S9 with a bunch of apps.  Most of it seems to be working, except for... FiiO.  Not the end of the world, but connecting to M11 Pro doesn't even power up S1, and someone just told me the same with fiio M6.  Oh, and just for sh!ts'n'giggles I installed FiiO Music app on my Galaxy phone, and it's the ONLY app that doesn't output audio to S1.  Everything else works, Hiby Music, Neutron, Qobuz, Netflix, YouTube, etc. but Fiio music app is the only one which doesn't work, and neither does their DAPs.  I smell a conspiracy theory lol!!!

And the other two I found not being compatible are iBasso DX160 where S1 powers up but no sound output while their DX220 works OK, and A&K SP1000 where S1 doesn't even power up, but their SR25 I have with me works fine.  When S1 doesn't power up, I wonder if it's hardware related due to S1 current draw, though no issues with little guys like M0, R3/pro, AP80/pro, N3.

But with everything else that is working, it's the coolest thing where I can move from DAP to DAP or Android or iPhone phones or my laptop and it all sounds nearly the same from one transport pair up to another!

Anybody else found other transport pair ups or apps that don't work with S1?  Please, share.  Will be a good feedback for Lotoo since I know Pauline is monitoring this thread and some issues could be fixed in fw.


----------



## HiFlight

twister6 said:


> Yesterday I spent an hour testing S1 with dozens of DAPs and my Galaxy S9 with a bunch of apps.  Most of it seems to be working, except for... FiiO.  Not the end of the world, but connecting to M11 Pro doesn't even power up S1, and someone just told me the same with fiio M6.  Oh, and just for sh!ts'n'giggles I installed FiiO Music app on my Galaxy phone, and it's the ONLY app that doesn't output audio to S1.  Everything else works, Hiby Music, Neutron, Qobuz, Netflix, YouTube, etc. but Fiio music app is the only one which doesn't work, and neither does their DAPs.  I smell a conspiracy theory lol!!!
> 
> And the other two I found not being compatible are iBasso DX160 where S1 powers up but no sound output while their DX220 works OK, and A&K SP1000 where S1 doesn't even power up, but their SR25 I have with me works fine.  When S1 doesn't power up, I wonder if it's hardware related due to S1 current draw, though no issues with little guys like M0, R3/pro, AP80/pro, N3.
> 
> ...


My Fiio M6 is working with Spotify, Tidal, Deezer and Tune In but not with the Fiio Music Player.


----------



## twister6

HiFlight said:


> My Fiio M6 is working with Spotify, Tidal, Deezer and Tune In but not with the Fiio Music Player.



Hmm, wonder if you can install Hiby Music on fiio M6 and see if it works?  Sounds like fiio music player app compatibility issue.


----------



## jsmiller58

Finally got mine out of the mailbox.  Anyway, as others have commented, amazing build quality.  Hefty and thick enough to let you know it is a serious device, but simultaneously light and small. Solid feel to the buttons and a crisp monochrome LCD.  As to sound hard to say without A/B versus my other output options such as my other dongles (Hidizs S8, 9038s, and il-DSP) as well as versus straight out of my players but so far plays quite nicely out of my LG v30 and HiBy R6 Pro with UAPP playing Tidal.

I have not updated the firmware yet.  What do I get with the new FW?


----------



## jsmiller58

subguy812 said:


> SQ is super good from this dongle. I have the iBasso DC01 which is 2.5mm(I am pretty much entrenched in 2.5mm). I also have a couple of 3.5mm dongles, the one included with Luna and lesser ones from Samsung and Google. I use it with a Samsung S20 Ultra and will use it with my Surface. I do not use iPhone so I can't comment on it. I do have a 4.4mm Male to 2.5mm Female adapter, so all of my bases are covered.
> 
> I started out with L Gain and have since migrated to H, I enjoy the additional dynamism. It appears to have a black background, I have tried it with OG Solaris and Solaris 2020. As I write this I am listening to Luna.
> 
> ...


I have never had someone be able to answer this, but maybe you can...  If you have sufficient volume headroom on Low gain, is there an advantage or disadvantage to using High gain?  I usually try to stay on low gain out of fear of introducing some unintended distortion with high gain...


----------



## DavidS11

Hope everyone is having a good day and enjoying their S1.

Earlier I mentioned the 4.4 output sound was better than the 3.5 output. I noticed it was both at the default Low gain setting. I retested with 3.5 at High gain and as is well now. I guess it’s my iem, I’m using AK T9iE.


----------



## twister6

jsmiller58 said:


> I have never had someone be able to answer this, but maybe you can...  If you have sufficient volume headroom on Low gain, is there an advantage or disadvantage to using High gain?  I usually try to stay on low gain out of fear of introducing some unintended distortion with high gain...



In theory with a lot of efficient IEMs you don't need to go to high gain.  But in some cases, all depending on pair up, switching to a high gain gives a little extra kick to the performance even when you lower the volume in high gain to match it with low gain.  Nothing is set in stone, try it either way with your various IEMs, you might hear a difference.

At the same time, S1 might be drawing more current in high gain, so low gain will also help with a battery drain.


----------



## Def1side

My Lotoo Paw S1 is not recognized by pc? (win 8.1 pro) Anybody problems connecting to pc? (it should be plug and play, I made the update)


----------



## gazzington

Does this work on iPhones?


----------



## musicday

gazzington said:


> Does this work on iPhones?


Yes works fine, has been mentioned by few so far on this thread.


----------



## Lu88

Def1side said:


> My Lotoo Paw S1 is not recognized by pc? (win 8.1 pro) Anybody problems connecting to pc? (it should be plug and play, I made the update)


I think you need to install usb audio class 2.0 driver on win8.1. (Win10 1703+ has it by default.)
The link below may help you. (Or try google for another one.)
https://www.driverscape.com/download/usb-audio-class-2.0-device-driver


----------



## musicday

Def1side said:


> My Lotoo Paw S1 is not recognized by pc? (win 8.1 pro) Anybody problems connecting to pc? (it should be plug and play, I made the update)


Sadly it doesn't connect to my windows 7 ultimate 64,no matter what I tried. Just thinking I should install windows 10 for the sake of it.
As you say it should be driverless and connect to anything.


----------



## subguy812 (May 24, 2020)

Def1side said:


> My Lotoo Paw S1 is not recognized by pc? (win 8.1 pro) Anybody problems connecting to pc? (it should be plug and play, I made the update)


You need to hold the FN button, the one that makes selection not controls volume. As you are holding it, plug it in to your PC. The display should show waiting.


----------



## gazzington

musicday said:


> Yes works fine, has been mentioned by few so far on this thread.


Cool I might get one. I've not been using daps much over past few weeks but dragonfly cobalt out of my iPhone instead


----------



## subguy812

Windows 10 appears to be no problem, is it just the older versions of Windows that may need an additional driver? In Win 10 it just setup device.


----------



## musicday

subguy812 said:


> You need to hold the FN button, the one that makes selection not controls volume. As you are holding it, plug it in to your PC. The display should show waiting.


What you explained is just for updating the firmware. I think he gets no sound when connecting it to his pc.


----------



## subguy812

musicday said:


> What you explained is just for updating the firmware. I think he gets no sound when connecting it to his pc.


I thought he was trying to get his PC to recognize the DAC. Sorry I didn't see him mention sound anywhere


----------



## twister6

gazzington said:


> Does this work on iPhones?



Tested S1 with my daughter's iPhone 11, works without a problem. Also, with Win10 it is simple plug'n'play, no additional drivers necessary.


----------



## subguy812

twister6 said:


> Tested S1 with my daughter's iPhone 11, works without a problem. Also, with Win10 it is simple plug'n'play, no additional drivers necessary.


Thanks for reaffirming my post above


----------



## Def1side

Lu88 said:


> I think you need to install usb audio class 2.0 driver on win8.1. (Win10 1703+ has it by default.)
> The link below may help you. (Or try google for another one.)
> https://www.driverscape.com/download/usb-audio-class-2.0-device-driver


thanks but i couldnt fix it


----------



## musicday

Def1side said:


> thanks but i couldnt fix it


Let's upgrade to Windows 10 lol


----------



## mwhals

Anyone compared this to DF Cobalt?


----------



## subguy812

If anyone has interest in a comparison between the DC01 and the S1 I can do that


----------



## jsmiller58

subguy812 said:


> If anyone has interest in a comparison between the DC01 and the S1 I can do that


Please do


----------



## ngd3

No idea why its named Dental but I think that's going to be my go to EQ option. Its cleaner then no EQ and a little more full than the Sweet preset. I think this would be my ranking - Dental, Sweet, None. The others mess with the sound too much for me, so seems like I'll cycle through those depending on the music.

Sticking with my previous impression that the S1 is awesome and a bargain for the price. Nice to have a plug and play option that works on Samsung phones without issues. Battery drain seems minor and the unit barely gets warm after an hour of use. Only issue I've had - drop the unit volume down if you use UAPP on Android. It maxes out system volume, learned that the hard way on high gain with IEMs 

I'll probably buy another one to keep at work. Time to sell some gear now...


----------



## jsmiller58 (May 24, 2020)

Where can I find the new FW to update my S1?

edit:  never mind.  Found the instructions: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lot...-dual-3-5mm-4-4mm-output.932676/post-15624148


----------



## jsmiller58

Question for owners of this dongle (and others)...  What’s your use model?  Do you use dongles as a convenient desktop solution (with phone, DAP, or laptop), or as an on-the-go solution?  The reason I ask is that I find that the USB connections are pretty flaky when I carry around these solutions in a pocket - jostle the cable and the connection is easily broken.


----------



## Def1side

jsmiller58 said:


> Question for owners of this dongle (and others)...  What’s your use model?  Do you use dongles as a convenient desktop solution (with phone, DAP, or laptop), or as an on-the-go solution?  The reason I ask is that I find that the USB connections are pretty flaky when I carry around these solutions in a pocket - jostle the cable and the connection is easily broken.


I use them with my DAPS : pioneer xdp100r and hiby r3. They both sound better with lotoo paw s1. I don’t get interuptions even if i hang the s1 out of my pocket.


----------



## twister6

Def1side said:


> I use them with my DAPS : pioneer xdp100r and hiby r3. They both sound better with lotoo paw s1. I don’t get interuptions even if i hang the s1 out of my pocket.



Did you try to change volume on R3 while connected to S1?  The volume should not change (volume can only be adjusted from within open android daps or smarpthones, otherwise S1 volume adjustment only).  But when changing the volume on R3/pro, it reboots, and the same with its AP80/pro clone.


----------



## doctorjuggles

mwhals said:


> Anyone compared this to DF Cobalt?



The only one I’ve seen in this thread is this short post here


----------



## bmoregnr

I am not sure how the math works with these things but would the 4.4mm use the battery faster than 3.5mm, or is it more power with same battery use?


----------



## musicday

bmoregnr said:


> I am not sure how the math works with these things but would the 4.4mm use the battery faster than 3.5mm, or is it more power with same battery use?


Power consumption will be higher on 4.4 balanced mode. Also depends how loud you are listening and what earphones you are using.
3.5 is 70 mW and 4.4 is 120 mW  maximum output.


----------



## davidmolliere

bmoregnr said:


> I am not sure how the math works with these things but would the 4.4mm use the battery faster than 3.5mm, or is it more power with same battery use?



I use 4.4, volume 50 with IEMs between 7 and 40 ohms and it equates to 6/7% battery drain on an iPhone XS Max


----------



## twister6

OK, so here is a little nerd experiment I did with S1 connected to my Galaxy S9 and LPGT/LP6k, monitoring 5V supply in series to see what's happening with a current draw from a source.

First of all, does not matter if it's a smartphone, android dap, or non-android DAP.  And it is also the same if I'm using IEMs connected to 4.4mm or 3.5mm output.  Plus, the same either if I'm playing mp3, flac, or DSD files.  The current draw is stable and reads the same.  At a normal listening level in high gain, S1 is drawing about 70mA of current from the source.  But when you raise the volume higher, it can go up to 80-90mA.  And so that I don't blow my iems, I used ibasso load dongle and see the current going up to 90mA at volume level of around 95-96.  When it is closer to max 100, it probably in some saturation state where the current draw is oscillating a bit.

Again, keep in mind, I'm "sniffing" the amount of current drawn from the source by S1 from usb-c output.  This is not headphone output or anything related to audio output.

Under the same test conditions, here are how much some of the other USB DAC/amp dongles draw current from the same sources at the same normal listening level:

Lotoo S1 => 4.99V, 0.070 A
AudioQuest DF v1.2 => 4.98V, 0.100 A
Hidizs S8 => 5.01V, 0.030 A
iBasso DC01 => 4.98V, 0.90 A
Cozoy Aegis => 4.93V, 0.130 A


----------



## Def1side

twister6 said:


> Did you try to change volume on R3 while connected to S1?  The volume should not change (volume can only be adjusted from within open android daps or smarpthones, otherwise S1 volume adjustment only).  But when changing the volume on R3/pro, it reboots, and the same with its AP80/pro clone.


yes, the volume doesn't change on R3 when s1 conected (you can adjust only s1 volume)


----------



## Def1side

I find Dental EFX on Lotoo S1 the best (I am not an eq fan but this sounds amazing). It enchanted details in a very nice way, without affecting the tonality. 
Audiosense T800 and Shuoer Tape with lotoo paw s1 on dental efx sounds much better than without eq.


----------



## Def1side

Did anybody noticed distorsions on high volumes with the Lotoo Paw S1?


----------



## circafreedom

I saw one brief impression between the S1 and mojo. Has anyone else compared the two? @twister6 how are those elysium’s treating you?


----------



## Def1side

circafreedom said:


> I saw one brief impression between the S1 and mojo. Has anyone else compared the two? @twister6 how are those elysium’s treating you?


For me s1 with dental efx sounds better than the mojo


----------



## musicday

Def1side said:


> For me s1 with dental efx sounds better than the mojo


Impressive isn't it for such a small device?


----------



## Def1side

musicday said:


> Impressive isn't it for such a small device?


Very impressive what the guys from Lotoo did!


----------



## davidmolliere

Def1side said:


> Very impressive what the guys from Lotoo did!



Yes indeed, this product should widely sell!


----------



## jibberish

Thanks to everyone that has provided opinions on the S1 so far, I should have one in my possession this week


----------



## thomaspf

musicday said:


> The output sample bit rate is not always accurate. For example when playing 24/192 will show 32/192.
> Anyone else noticed?


Which player are you using? In most cases the player will just use whatever source bits it has 16,24,32 and sends them in the most significant bit of 32 bit samples. I checked with JRiver Media Center where you can actually control the output bit depth and the S1 correctly switches between the selected formats. See attached


----------



## musicday

thomaspf said:


> Which player are you using? In most cases the player will just use whatever source bits it has 16,24,32 and sends them in the most significant bit of 32 bit samples. I checked with JRiver Media Center where you can actually control the output bit depth and the S1 correctly switches between the selected formats. See attached


I have used it with LG V50 with USB audio player Pro. Hopefully with the next update they will fix the  the sample bit rate issue.


----------



## thomaspf

musicday said:


> I have used it with LG V50 with USB audio player Pro. Hopefully with the next update they will fix the  the sample bit rate issue.


The PAW S1 works correctly and displays what it is being send. Sending 16 or 24 bit samples in the most significant bits of 32 bit audio samples is likely exactly what you want. USB Audio player Pro has an option to force 16 bit samples for phones that might struggle with the bandwidth of 24 or 32 bit audio sample. If you select this option you will see the display on the PAW S1 reflect this. However this will truncate any sample with higher bit depth so it is not recommended. So USB Audio player Pro is also doing the right thing?

The bit rate rather than the bit depth also tracks what is being send correctly according to my tests on JRiver and the phone. 

So I am not sure there is anything to fix for Lotoo or USB Audio Player Pro.

Cheers

   Thomas


----------



## AlexCBSN

well, on its way, it’s going to be a fun weekend if it makes it before Friday to Mexican customs, whenever it arrives, ill
Be happy to compare this 2. Been meaning to get e1da products though the g3 sounds the most appealing since I’m an iOS user. This is going to be fun!


----------



## subguy812

thomaspf said:


> The PAW S1 works correctly and displays what it is being send. Sending 16 or 24 bit samples in the most significant bits of 32 bit audio samples is likely exactly what you want. USB Audio player Pro has an option to force 16 bit samples for phones that might struggle with the bandwidth of 24 or 32 bit audio sample. If you select this option you will see the display on the PAW S1 reflect this. However this will truncate any sample with higher bit depth so it is not recommended. So USB Audio player Pro is also doing the right thing?
> 
> The bit rate rather than the bit depth also tracks what is being send correctly according to my tests on JRiver and the phone.
> 
> ...


i noticed the same...appears to function as it should


----------



## thomaspf

As of the latest Neutron upgrade 2.14.1 the PAW S1 is now working correctly with the Direct USB driver for all bit rates including DSD when you select DOP.


----------



## someyoungguy

Kind of surprised so many people have units at hand already. I’m in China and the S1 has been sold out on Lotoo’s JD store (kind of China equivalent to Amazon) for ages:


----------



## cocolinho

Hi, I'm interested in this, should I expect any hiss with Andromeda? and do we know what's impedance output using 4.4 output?
Thank you


----------



## Mitr1anton

cocolinho said:


> Hi, I'm interested in this, should I expect any hiss with Andromeda?
> Thank you



I have a Solaris 2020, i can hear little hiss


----------



## musicday

Did anyone tried full size headphones? On the 3.5 drives Koss Porta Pro 60 ohm on high gain very well.


----------



## rcoleman1

musicday said:


> Did anyone tried full size headphones? On the 3.5 drives Koss Porta Pro 60 ohm on high gain very well.


My Oppo PM-3s on 4.4mm balanced and HIGH gain sound awesome.


----------



## ldo77

Any comparaison with the E1DA 9038s ?


----------



## circafreedom

If anyone got a lightning adapter and has no use for it please PM. Thanks


----------



## thomaspf

subguy812 said:


> SQ is super good from this dongle. I have the iBasso DC01 which is 2.5mm(I am pretty much entrenched in 2.5mm). I also have a couple of 3.5mm dongles, the one included with Luna and lesser ones from Samsung and Google. I use it with a Samsung S20 Ultra and will use it with my Surface. I do not use iPhone so I can't comment on it. I do have a 4.4mm Male to 2.5mm Female adapter, so all of my bases are covered.
> 
> ...
> On Android, USB Player Pro works flawlessly and recognizes S1.


Hi,

does the PAW work for you on the S20 Ultra? Did you change any settings? 

 If I plug it directly into my S20 Ultra (SM-G988U1) it does not even power on. It works fine if I connect the S20 Ultra and the PAW S1 to a powered hub.

For shorter periods it would be nice to just plug it into the phone.

Cheers

   Thomas


----------



## Sonic Defender

twister6 said:


> They *only* mentioned it comes with PMEQ and ATE presets, they never said it is capable of doing the actual Parametric EQ adjustment and saving PMEQ presets, right?  How would you even adjust it on a tiny screen like that with such limited controls.  Unless, if they can make an app to do PMEQ adjustments remotely and save it on S1.  But they didn't promise that either.  I know, wishful thinking, just like I wish they would have BT Wireless connection


I have to agree, I don't think anything of this nature should be designed without a well thought out Bluetooth implementation. That is pretty much standard functionality these days. Even if your retail price needs to go up to accommodate this, it really needs to be there.


----------



## ngd3

Sonic Defender said:


> I have to agree, I don't think anything of this nature should be designed without a well thought out Bluetooth implementation. That is pretty much standard functionality these days. Even if your retail price needs to go up to accommodate this, it really needs to be there.


That market seems very well covered between Radsone, Fiio, Qudelix, etc. I doubt there are many BT options out there can touch the S1 on sound quality tho. Then adding BT adds cost, increases size, possible RF issues...

It might be more niche for some but its basically the only source I've used all week. Just super convenient - instant on with my phone and laptop, and sounds awesome


----------



## JimJim

thomaspf said:


> Hi,
> 
> does the PAW work for you on the S20 Ultra? Did you change any settings?
> 
> ...


Check usb settings on Samsung s20


----------



## Lu88

New firmware 1.0.0.6
1.New feature: UAC 1 Mode. for video game consoles like Nintendo Switch and Windows7/8 (no driver is required)

Method of use: Hold the "+”key on S1 then connect to the playback device, "UAC1 MODE" will be shown on S1 during booting.
Reconnect without  "+”key held will enter normal mode(UAC2).

Notice：In UAC1 Mode，Audio spec is fixed to 48KHz/16bit and no DoP supported.

Download link
https://t.co/ZfNoTtDAtx?amp=1


----------



## musicday

Lu88 said:


> New firmware 1.0.0.6
> 1.New feature: UAC 1 Mode. for video game consoles like Nintendo Switch and Windows7/8 (no driver is required)
> 
> Method of use: Hold the "+”key on S1 then connect to the playback device, "UAC1 MODE" will be shown on S1 during booting.
> ...


Impressive, the new firmware came fast. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## musicday

Finally, the Paw S1 works great with my Windows 7 64 Ultimate. I am happy.


----------



## hakunamakaka

AlexCBSN said:


> well, on its way, it’s going to be a fun weekend if it makes it before Friday to Mexican customs, whenever it arrives, ill
> Be happy to compare this 2. Been meaning to get e1da products though the g3 sounds the most appealing since I’m an iOS user. This is going to be fun!




How does it compare to e1da gen 3 ? It's a bit of a struggle to get lotoo, but g3 is available via ali


----------



## AlexCBSN

hakunamakaka said:


> How does it compare to e1da gen 3 ? It's a bit of a struggle to get lotoo, but g3 is available via ali


Haven’t got it yet


----------



## Sonic Defender (May 28, 2020)

ngd3 said:


> That market seems very well covered between Radsone, Fiio, Qudelix, etc. I doubt there are many BT options out there can touch the S1 on sound quality tho. Then adding BT adds cost, increases size, possible RF issues...
> 
> It might be more niche for some but its basically the only source I've used all week. Just super convenient - instant on with my phone and laptop, and sounds awesome


I know what you mean, but the fact that it is so well covered suggests that as a feature set, good quality Bluetooth connectivity is now considered standard. I would never consider buying any DAC or DAC/amp that did not support Bluetooth properly. I think when companies fail to do so it likely indicates that they lack the in-house skill set to integrate BT into their offerings, but if that is the case a company that fails to recognize what is needed runs the risk of falling further and further behind consumer trends. In terms of sound quality the notion that Bluetooth can't sound as good as a wired connection has been pretty much laid to rest. Absolutely the first efforts at Bluetooth suffered sonically, but that is no longer the case. When implemented well Bluetooth is extremely capable. Too many people still listen with their eyes and of course their bias to believe that wired is better is easily confirmed because they are predisposed to expect this and surprise, surprise, when doing sighted listening their expectations are confirmed.

I have been very interested in this particular issue for a number of years now and very often when I read the impressions of somebody who appears to be genuinely open minded, but still using sighted listening tests they will typically mention that they hear very small differences. The concern that I have is that once we start getting into these very small differences we have entered the territory where expectation bias could also easily explain the possible difference. Anyway, I didn't really intend to get into this so my apology, my main message was that I think it is very reasonable to expect that all companies be willing to offer a solid Bluetooth connectivity option. Yes price will go up, but you yourself noted that all the other companies are able to provide Bluetooth connectivity on their devices, in fact, Bluetooth is the new USB as far as I can tell with companies really embracing it and trying to make their implementations stand out. I do this because I want as many companies as possible to remain relevant in the hobby as the more choice and competition, the better the hobby becomes for the consumer. Ignoring Bluetooth in 2020 makes very little sense for devices that are about convenience and flexibility.


----------



## HiFlight

I, for one, fail to see a need for Bluetooth on the S1 , as I mostly use it for wired reference performance but when I want to use my Bluetooth phones, my phone also does the job just fine.


----------



## Wyville

Sonic Defender said:


> I know what you mean, but the fact that it is so well covered suggests that as a feature set, good quality Bluetooth connectivity is now considered standard. I would never consider buying any DAC or DAC/amp that did not support Bluetooth properly. I think when companies fail to do so it likely indicates that they lack the in-house skill set to integrate BT into their offerings, but if that is the case a company that fails to recognize what is needed runs the risk of falling further and further behind consumer trends. In terms of sound quality the notion that Bluetooth can't sound as good as a wired connection has been pretty much laid to rest. Absolutely the first efforts at Bluetooth suffered sonically, but that is no longer the case. When implemented well Bluetooth is extremely capable. Too many people still listen with their eyes and of course their bias to believe that wired is better is easily confirmed because they are predisposed to expect this and surprise, surprise, when doing sighted listening their expectations are confirmed.
> 
> I have been very interested in this particular issue for a number of years now and very often when I read the impressions of somebody who appears to be genuinely open minded, but still using sighted listening tests they will typically mention that they hear very small differences. The concern that I have is that once we start getting into these very small differences we have entered the territory where expectation bias could also easily explain the possible difference. Anyway, I didn't really intend to get into this so my apology, my main message was that I think it is very reasonable to expect that all companies be willing to offer a solid Bluetooth connectivity option. Yes price will go up, but you yourself noted that all the other companies are able to provide Bluetooth connectivity on their devices, in fact, Bluetooth is the new USB as far as I can tell with companies really embracing it and trying to make their implementations stand out. I do this because I want as many companies as possible to remain relevant in the hobby as the more choice and competition, the better the hobby becomes for the consumer. Ignoring Bluetooth in 2020 makes very little sense for devices that are about convenience and flexibility.


I think you are overthinking this a bit. The S1 is a USB dongle, essentially a mini PAW, and BT simply was not part of its design. If you want that there are loads of options out there that will offer you that. The S1 is something else, like the fact that their PAW DAPs offer something different from the masses of DAPs that come with all the bells and whistles. I like that and I want companies like Lotoo around that don't try to sell you a new Android phone DAP every six months. I like how Lotoo focusses on core tasks for their products and ensures optimal performance. I for one wish more companies would be like that.


----------



## musicday (May 28, 2020)

I like the Paw S1 more and more day by day. Didn't expect the new firmware so quickly.
Now we need a Lotoo IEM headphones


----------



## ngd3

Sonic Defender said:


> I know what you mean, but the fact that it is so well covered suggests that as a feature set, good quality Bluetooth connectivity is now considered standard. I would never consider buying any DAC or DAC/amp that did not support Bluetooth properly. I think when companies fail to do so it likely indicates that they lack the in-house skill set to integrate BT into their offerings, but if that is the case a company that fails to recognize what is needed runs the risk of falling further and further behind consumer trends. In terms of sound quality the notion that Bluetooth can't sound as good as a wired connection has been pretty much laid to rest. Absolutely the first efforts at Bluetooth suffered sonically, but that is no longer the case. When implemented well Bluetooth is extremely capable. Too many people still listen with their eyes and of course their bias to believe that wired is better is easily confirmed because they are predisposed to expect this and surprise, surprise, when doing sighted listening their expectations are confirmed.
> 
> I have been very interested in this particular issue for a number of years now and very often when I read the impressions of somebody who appears to be genuinely open minded, but still using sighted listening tests they will typically mention that they hear very small differences. The concern that I have is that once we start getting into these very small differences we have entered the territory where expectation bias could also easily explain the possible difference. Anyway, I didn't really intend to get into this so my apology, my main message was that I think it is very reasonable to expect that all companies be willing to offer a solid Bluetooth connectivity option. Yes price will go up, but you yourself noted that all the other companies are able to provide Bluetooth connectivity on their devices, in fact, Bluetooth is the new USB as far as I can tell with companies really embracing it and trying to make their implementations stand out. I do this because I want as many companies as possible to remain relevant in the hobby as the more choice and competition, the better the hobby becomes for the consumer. Ignoring Bluetooth in 2020 makes very little sense for devices that are about convenience and flexibility.


Maybe I undersold this point but a huge reason why I use the S1 so much is the instant power on/off and portability. I don't want it to be any bigger, and with BT implemented both of those aspects would be worse. If you want portable BT, TWS buds are a much better option to me. I have a Radsone ES100 thats collecting dust. Yes it sounds good enough and has good eq but just lacks the convenience of something like the S1


----------



## AK74

How is this in term of sound compared to the 5000 MKII ?


----------



## thomaspf

JimJim said:


> Check usb settings on Samsung s20


Hi JimJim,

I did check all the USB settings and my Ztella, IBAsso DX200 in DAC mode,  Samsung iem and dongle all work fine. Just the PAW S1 does not.

I take your response to mean it does work for you?? What is your S20 model number?

Cheers

   Thomas


----------



## Wyville

thomaspf said:


> Hi JimJim,
> 
> I did check all the USB settings and my Ztella, IBAsso DX200 in DAC mode,  Samsung iem and dongle all work fine. Just the PAW S1 does not.
> 
> ...


I think there are still some compatibility issues to be ironed out because I can’t get it to work with my phone either (Sony XA2, does power up but no sound). Lotoo is checking into it.


----------



## twister6

thomaspf said:


> Hi JimJim,
> 
> I did check all the USB settings and my Ztella, IBAsso DX200 in DAC mode,  Samsung iem and dongle all work fine. Just the PAW S1 does not.
> 
> ...



Did you install the latest fw?


----------



## Sonic Defender

Yes, I think I may need to walk my Bluetooth comment back here a little anyway. So if I understand things the S1 requires power be provided externally via USB in which case having a Bluetooth connection would be less useful. I'm not sure why I thought that it was self-powered? My bad.


----------



## Wyville

Sonic Defender said:


> Yes, I think I may need to walk my Bluetooth comment back here a little anyway. So if I understand things the S1 requires power be provided externally via USB in which case having a Bluetooth connection would be less useful. I'm not sure why I thought that it was self-powered? My bad.


To be honest, I initially thought it was a BT DAC/Amp.


----------



## thomaspf

twister6 said:


> Did you install the latest fw?


yes, no change. It does not power up the device. USB Device Info does not show a device. If I go through a powered hub it works like all the other USB audio class 2 devices.


----------



## JimJim

thomaspf said:


> Hi JimJim,
> 
> I did check all the USB settings and my Ztella, IBAsso DX200 in DAC mode,  Samsung iem and dongle all work fine. Just the PAW S1 does not.
> 
> ...




Sorry 🙇‍♂️ I haven't got mine yet still on shipping 😅.  I'll try it on once arrives. Will update you.


----------



## Def1side

I use to hang Paw S1 out of my pocket, but sadly in less than a week the small Lotoo usb C cable borke and has interuptions and on the lotoo s1 device, the usb c port started to move few mm on every side , but still working


----------



## hakunamakaka

Def1side said:


> I use to hang Paw S1 out of my pocket, but sadly in less than a week the small Lotoo usb C cable borke and has interuptions and on the lotoo s1 device, the usb c port started to move few mm on every side , but still working



It seems quality product, I’m suprised this happened. I’ve ordered shanling up4 bt dac/amp and was impatient on lotoo s1. Will be able to compare sq from both of these devices


----------



## jsmiller58

Def1side said:


> I use to hang Paw S1 out of my pocket, but sadly in less than a week the small Lotoo usb C cable borke and has interuptions and on the lotoo s1 device, the usb c port started to move few mm on every side , but still working


While I haven’t had this exactly happen to me I did have the connection become interrupted one time.  That got me worried and I will start keeping both player and the S1 in my pocket.  Not as convenient but should mean the device will be more reliable and last longer...


----------



## AlexCBSN

I see everyone is happy with their s1, mine is in Hong Kong still, I think it’s delayed. Dhl tracking just says: information received, it will come; all in its right time.

somethign that i keep worrying about is this:


Def1side said:


> I use to hang Paw S1 out of my pocket, but sadly in less than a week the small Lotoo usb C cable borke and has interuptions and on the lotoo s1 device, the usb c port started to move few mm on every side , but still working


i already have a collection of cables from sonata, hilidac and ztella from adapters that their cable broke, I ended up buying an apple camera dongle which i was meant to place some Velcro to dock it into my phone last week to keep it more stable... thanks for the reminder! Anyways! Thing is that it worries me too, the only ones I’ve seen taking a an approach for this (and yet, it is still a prototype) are the guys from ikko zerda with the itm05. in my experience it depends if I’m at work, I’ll let it hang from my pocket and try to stay aware of the dongle while moving around, if I’m walking around i do keep it in my back pocket. however I think that If I fix it in some way into the back of my phone, it might just last longer, good thing is that usb c cables are not that hard to get, bad thing is that my sonata hd pro suffers the same problem as @Def1side s1,the Micro USB port got loose, it doesn’t get interruptions but still, it’s so annoying.

big question for everyone, how do you connect the s1 into the PlayStation?I’ve been asking that question around, the only way I know it’s through the controller 3.5mm output but if anybody can share some experience I would be truly grateful


----------



## stersa

mine comes next week
Hope it is compatible with my huawei 30 pro and  UAPP

 Crossing fingers..

best


----------



## twister6

jsmiller58 said:


> While I haven’t had this exactly happen to me I did have the connection become interrupted one time.  That got me worried and I will start keeping both player and the S1 in my pocket.  Not as convenient but should mean the device will be more reliable and last longer...



When you are keeping your S1 and phone in the pocket, you will need one of these right-angle usb-c to usb-c short cables, can get them off ebay for $4-$5






I hope Lotoo can make some of these as well, as an optional accessory like that lightning cable, to offer a short interconnect cable with right-angle connectors.


----------



## jsmiller58

twister6 said:


> When you are keeping your S1 and phone in the pocket, you will need one of these right-angle usb-c to usb-c short cables, can get them off ebay for $4-$5
> 
> 
> 
> I hope Lotoo can make some of these as well, as an optional accessory like that lightning cable, to offer a short interconnect cable with right-angle connectors.


I think I have one of those!  Will have to rummage around to find it.  Thanks for the idea!


----------



## twister6

jsmiller58 said:


> I think I have one of those!  Will have to rummage around to find it.  Thanks for the idea!



I don't have right-angle usb-c to usb-c, but do have micro-usb to usb-c interconnect and a short micro-usb to usb-c adapter   So, it looks like this with my phone:


----------



## jsmiller58

twister6 said:


> I don't have right-angle usb-c to usb-c, but do have micro-usb to usb-c interconnect and a short micro-usb to usb-c adapter   So, it looks like this with my phone:


That is awesome!  Do you have the S1 attached with something like Velcro?


----------



## twister6

jsmiller58 said:


> That is awesome!  Do you have the S1 attached with something like Velcro?



You certainly could velcro it to the case, but I prefer to keep phone and dap separated. I use S1 with laptop most of the time.


----------



## hakunamakaka

Is the input usb type c on lotoo s1?Where do you get those short cables ?  I need connection with iphone and all I can find on aliexpress is 1.5 meters long and etc


----------



## subguy812

I promised some thoughts on the S1 vs. the iBasso DC01.

Prior to owning the S1 I really enjoyed the DC01. The S1 offers a fuller sound with more of a smooth signature. The stage is wide in both but the DC01 has a more bright tone and is a little thinner in weight. Both allow details to be appreciated. IMO, the S1 provides a better listening experience, but that comes at twice the price of the DC01. I tested using the OG Solaris.

That said, the DC01 is easier to pocket, but I am looking for a right angle solution to make the S1 more pocketable. Obviously, to be able to use my 2.5mm cable I use an adapter in the 4.4mm output of the S1.


----------



## subguy812

I will say that I didn't think that finding a short 6" usb-c to usb-c with a right angle would be so difficult to find. This thing is as elusive as Bigfoot


----------



## jsmiller58

subguy812 said:


> I will say that I didn't think that finding a short 6" usb-c to usb-c with a right angle would be so difficult to find. This thing is as elusive as Bigfoot


Looking back on my order history this is the one I purchased...  a bit long but might work

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SPRGBSL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


----------



## subguy812

jsmiller58 said:


> Looking back on my order history this is the one I purchased...  a bit long but might work
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SPRGBSL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


Thank you! I would need male to male.


----------



## jsmiller58

subguy812 said:


> Thank you! I would need male to male.


Strange that is the version that came up since i purchased the male to male version...  anyway, easil solved.  There is an option you can select: 

Color: M/M











The one on the right is the male to male


----------



## subguy812 (May 30, 2020)

jsmiller58 said:


> Strange that is the version that came up since i purchased the male to male version...  anyway, easil solved.  There is an option you can select:
> 
> Color: M/M
> 
> ...


Thank you. The Lotoo one is like 4" but it beats not using it in my pocket.

EDIT: Reading the reviews, that cable appears to be stiff. It may be too long to pocket if it is too stiff to flex


----------



## brendancws

Anyone tried it with ifi iSilencer? Japan seems to have a bundle with it.


----------



## subguy812

thomaspf said:


> Hi,
> 
> does the PAW work for you on the S20 Ultra? Did you change any settings?
> 
> ...


Sorry Thomas I didn't see this. What music player are you using? I can stream Qobuz or Amazon HD directly from plugging in the S1. If I use UAPP obviously you need to select the use S1 option that pops up when it is first attached.


----------



## ayang02

For people who can't use S1 with Windows 7, try installing this driver (use setup.exe): https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ze5m3xwxl4vxf7/usbdacCA(touch&6000&PAW-S1).zip

I don't use Windows 7 anymore but a few folks mentioned this driver worked for them.


----------



## subguy812

ayang02 said:


> For people who can't use S1 with Windows 7, try installing this driver (use setup.exe): https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ze5m3xwxl4vxf7/usbdacCA(touch&6000&PAW-S1).zip
> 
> I don't use Windows 7 anymore but a few folks mentioned this driver worked for them.


Didn't the latest firmware update address this?


----------



## ayang02

subguy812 said:


> Didn't the latest firmware update address this?



Yes, I just looked at the latest FW changelog and you are right! I saw this solution floating around last week or something so I figured to mention it here. I think this now only applies to people who haven't updated to the latest FW or want to stick to old FW for some reason.


----------



## jsmiller58

subguy812 said:


> Thank you. The Lotoo one is like 4" but it beats not using it in my pocket.
> 
> EDIT: Reading the reviews, that cable appears to be stiff. It may be too long to pocket if it is too stiff to flex


You could be right...  I will look for it and if I can find it let you know...  sorry if I have pointed you in the wrong direction!


----------



## LuckyGhoul

subguy812 said:


> I will say that I didn't think that finding a short 6" usb-c to usb-c with a right angle would be so difficult to find. This thing is as elusive as Bigfoot



I've been a long time lurker on these forums, but I finally registered today just to leave this suggestion.  I think this might be what you want -- a short (3.4" or 8.5cm) male C to C cable with L connectors that is from an audio brand and not too expensive:

https://www.xduoo.net/product/type-c-to-type-c-audio-cable/

When my S1 arrives, I'm thinking of ordering this to see what works best ergonomically.  Interestingly, among a whole range of useful and more obscure interconnect cables, xDuoo also has a short Apple lightning to USB C cable for sale.  I'm not sure if this cable supplies power so compatibility with S1 isn't guaranteed, but it seems like it could be a cheaper alternative to the Lotoo branded Apple cable.

Just a quick question... when you connect S1 to a PC, do you notice any delays in sound?


----------



## musicday

LuckyGhoul said:


> I've been a long time lurker on these forums, but I finally registered today just to leave this suggestion.  I think this might be what you want -- a short (3.4" or 8.5cm) male C to C cable with L connectors that is from an audio brand and not too expensive:
> 
> https://www.xduoo.net/product/type-c-to-type-c-audio-cable/
> 
> ...


No delay In sound here with the latest firmware. I use Windows 7 ultimate 64 bit.
Actually I watched a movie today and the present movie sounds really good.


----------



## jibberish

I got my S1 last night, watched some TV from my PC today and I didn't notice any delay either.

It sounds excellent, drives my Etys really nicely in high gain mode on the 3.5mm port.


----------



## thomaspf

subguy812 said:


> Sorry Thomas I didn't see this. What music player are you using? I can stream Qobuz or Amazon HD directly from plugging in the S1. If I use UAPP obviously you need to select the use S1 option that pops up when it is first attached.


Thank you, I am using Neutron and UAPP. That works with pretty much all my other USB audio class 2 devices. But not with the S1. The device does not power on when plugged directly into the phone. It works just fine when I use a powered hub. I suspect there is something in the power output on my S20 Ultra that the PAW S1 does not seem to like. Most of my other portable devices are self powered. Chord Hugo 2, iBasso DX200, LH lab Go2 pro. The Ztella and the native Samsung dongle work also fine when connected directly.

Which model number is you S20? 

As I wrote before the sound is amazing and in my personal subjective view a challenger to the Hugo 2 even with full size cans (HE560, HE1000v2, Utopia, HD6xx). The magneto planars are not quite as dynamic compared to a desktop rig but on the go this is amazing. I don't know how much the stable voltage and current from the powerbank plays a part here but if I could get it to work directly on the phone it would be bliss...

Cheers

  Thomas


----------



## vanez1985

Could someone please check how S1 reacts to incoming voice call when connected to Android phone? 

If the voice comes through attached IEMs, this one could become my endgame device as my Fiio Q5 doesn't allow it either wired or BT, and it seems that none of serious DAPs/DACs does as well...


----------



## twister6

vanez1985 said:


> Could someone please check how S1 reacts to incoming voice call when connected to Android phone?
> 
> If the voice comes through attached IEMs, this one could become my endgame device as my Fiio Q5 doesn't allow it either wired or BT, and it seems that none of serious DAPs/DACs does as well...



I just quickly dialed my android phone from my regular phone using IEMs with in-line mic plugged into S1.  The mic of in-line remote is not working and you can't control playback from in-line remote either.  I actually expected that, cause the idea of S1 is to have a pure audio output without any distortion or interference from in-line remote or mic.  So, when using S1 plugged to your smartphone, you can hear the audio/call through your earphones/headphones connected to S1, but the mic from your phone is the one picking up your voice.


----------



## twister6

Another right-angle usb-c to usb-c alternative, all together for about $9 plus change, is to use something like one of this right angle usb-c to usb-a 4" interconnects and one of this usb-a to usb-c short adapters.  The side with an adapter would be connected to S1, while usb-c side directly to your phone (similar to what I posted before).


----------



## koven

Anyone compare this to the wireless BTR5 or ES100?


----------



## jeffri

Woo Audio made a short angled C to C for $15. I have that on WA11 and I think should work here. It's OTG on one end.

https://wooaudio.com/accessories/wooaudio-usb-cable


----------



## DavidS11

jeffri said:


> Woo Audio made a short angled C to C for $15. I have that on WA11 and I think should work here. It's OTG on one end.
> 
> https://wooaudio.com/accessories/wooaudio-usb-cable



Thanks. The short angle C to C is $25. The normal 1 meter is $15. I want short angle Lightning to C but at $49 it’s just too expensive.


----------



## vanez1985

twister6 said:


> So, when using S1 plugged to your smartphone, you can hear the audio/call through your earphones/headphones connected to S1, but the mic from your phone is the one picking up your voice.



Thanks!

That is perfectly ok as all my IEMs are 4.4-terminated now. Currently voice is not coming through these while using Q5, so I have to unplug IEMs from ears to answer the call, which is not that great whole using custom earplugs.


----------



## jeffri

DavidS11 said:


> Thanks. The short angle C to C is $25. The normal 1 meter is $15. I want short angle Lightning to C but at $49 it’s just too expensive.



Oh right, my mistakes. I thought that was the cheapest one. 😅


----------



## hakunamakaka

seems a bit struggle with short lighting to c, I’ve order s1 from jaben audio, hopefully package will include  cable compatible iphone


----------



## CongoFather (May 31, 2020)

Has anyone compared S1 with Yin Lu Mei S2 AK4497 or Tempotec Sonata HD PRO?


----------



## AlexCBSN

CongoFather said:


> Has anyone compared S1 with Yin Lu Mei S2 AK4497 or Tempotec Sonata HD PRO?


I’ll be able to compare to the sonata in a couple of days, however the interesting comparison will be with the hilidac beam 2, I find myself lately going for it due to the power it handles, I think the s1 has the upper hand but still  it will be interesting to compare em


----------



## CongoFather (May 31, 2020)

AlexCBSN said:


> I’ll be able to compare to the sonata in a couple of days, however the interesting comparison will be with the hilidac beam 2, I find myself lately going for it due to the power it handles, I think the s1 has the upper hand but still  it will be interesting to compare em


There are also lots of good opinions/reviews which have recently started to spread out about Yin Lu Mei S2 AK4497. I am planning to buy one of them.


----------



## PokerFaze

Probably one of the best purchases I've made this year.


----------



## AlexCBSN

CongoFather said:


> There are also lots of good opinions/reviews which have recently started to spread out about Yin Lu Mei S2 AK4497. I am planning to buy one of them.


Where?


----------



## HansBarbarossa

Hi friends. I'll try to translate and adapt my PAW S1 review into English

*Lotoo PAW S1: size doesn't matter*


_Hi friends!

So May ended, which, alas, did not pamper us this year with warm sunny days. Well, hopefully, a new review on Audio-ph.ru will be able to warm the frozen hearts of audiophiles.



But for starters, our little everlasting prologue. Recently, we met with a whole galaxy of miniature devices from iBasso (DC01 / DC02) and xDuoo (Link), etc.. which can turn any smartphone into a full-fledged audio player and give a lot of pleasure from listening in good quality to your favorite music. This time we were visited by an extremely interesting DAC / AMP - PAW S1 from the well-known and beloved Lotoo brand, beloved by many audiomaniacs. I won’t  let the fog in and I’ll say right away that this kid was able to impress me not only with its compactness and prominent exterior, but also with the main thing - the sound. Honestly, I did not expect such a sound level from such a tiny portable device.



Well, let's talk more about the PAW S1, it definitely deserves it._








_*Text: Alexey Kashirskey (aka Hans Barbarossa)*_ 


_*Specifications*
Dac chip: AKM437
Op-amp: OPA1622
Supported Format: PCM 32K-384KHz DSD64/DSD128 
Max Output: 3.5mm:70mW/ch @32Ω 
4.4mm:120mW/ch @32Ω 
HP Port: 3.5mm Unbalanced 
4.4mm Balanced 
Freq. range: 3.5mm: 20-20KHz..+0/-0.017dB 
4.4mm: 20-20KHz..+0/-0.016dB 
USB Port: USB Type C 
Noise Level: 3.5mm: -118dBu 
4.4mm: -114dBu 
Screen: OLED 128x32 
THD+N.. Low gain: -106dB(0.0005%) 
High gain: -108dB(0.0004%) 
OS: LTOS 
S/N: 3.5mm: 123dB 
4.4mm: 122dB 
Weight: 27.10g 
Size: 66mm*22mm*13mm_



*Appearance and kit*

Lotoo PAW S1 comes in a small stylish black cardboard box. On its front side there is a photo of the device, the name of the model, a round sticker indicating the presence of a balanced Pentaconn connector, as well as the “profession”: portable USB DAC amplifier. Detailed specifications are painted on the back. Inside, in addition to the PAW S1 itself, we find a short USB type-C / USB type-C cable for connecting S1 to a smartphone (the smartphone, as you know, must have a type-C connector), a USB adapter from type-C to type- A (for connecting to a PC), warranty booklet and user manual.












Externally, PAW S1 resembles a tiny rectangular MP3-player with a neat elongated display and three buttons on the side. The design is rigorous, clearly Nordic, but we’ll find out later what our device character - restrained northern or rugged southern - will be later revealed. In the meantime, we return to the inspection. The sleek black case made of anodized aluminum has dimensions of 66 mm x 22 mm x 13 mm and weighs only 27 grams. 












On the front side is located, as already mentioned, a monochrome OLED display. Under it is the brand logo. The back side contains a sticker with a barcode and serial number, model name, information about the plant and the country of manufacture.

At the top there is a USB type-C connector, into which we insert a cable at one end, and connect it to the smartphone with the other. In addition to this cable, Lotoo manufactures its proprietary USB-C / Lightning cable (purchased separately) for PAW S1 communication with the iPhone. The bottom end contains two headphone outputs: 4.4 mm Pentaconn (balanced) and 3.5 mm (normal).

Three buttons are located on the right side of the device: “Fn” - switching the menu, “+” and “-”, which, in addition to adjusting the volume, are responsible for moving around the device’s menu.

















Lotoo PAW S1 does not have a battery, but it doesn’t need it, since it is powered by a sound source: a smartphone or a computer. The device does not require the installation of special drivers and in Plug & Play mode it easily connects to devices on any OS (Android, iOS, Windows or macOS). Personally, when I connect S1 to my Huawei P20 Pro smartphone, I use the USB Audio Player PRO (UAPP) software player, and when I connect to my laptop I use foobar 2000.












It also has PMEQ / ATE, an equalizer with many presets (Jazz, Rock, Classic, Game, Movie, Radio, etc.) and switching the power level of Gain: High / Low. Just press the "Fn" button and select the settings you need. In general, if you like to lose with ready-made equalizer settings, then there is something to occupy yourself with. But personally, I always turn off all such features.


Built S1 on the AKM437 DAC chip from Asahi Kasei Microdevices and the OPA1622 op amp. If I'm not mistaken, then PAW S1 is the only device in such a tiny, "nano" -size, which in addition to the DAC chip also uses a separate operational amplifier. The rest, as I recall, have on board combined chips "two in one": DAC / amplifier.












Power S1 is 120 mW at 32 Ohms (per channel), which allows it to easily cope with any IEMs and most full-size headphones, with the exception of high-impedance models, and very "tight", magnetically planar models with low sensitivity. However, with such a difficult task, rarely does a powerful DAP cope, not just such a kid.


Summing up the first part of the review, I note that Lotoo engineers never disappointed me, and this time again I see how much effort and effort has been put into the product, and the task in this case was seriously complicated by the miniature size of the device. But no, here we do not see any compromises - S1 is packed in full.








And now it's time to figure out what exactly in terms of sound can offer us a small DAC / AMP with such a cool "stuffing".




*Sound*

Listening was conducted with IEM/Headphones: 64 AUDIO A18, 64 AUDIO A12t, Vision Ears VE8, Vision Ears VE4.2, FIR M5, BGVP DMS, InEar SD-2, PP8, ProMission X, Beyerdynamic DT1350 & Phonon SMB-02.

Sources of digital signal: Huawei P20 Pro smartphone, ASUS VivoBook Pro laptop, xDuoo X10T II digital transport.

With all the IEM/headphones, the device played more than worthily, without experiencing any difficulties with the variety of music genres offered to it.












The sound of Lotoo PAW S1 is well balanced, smooth, with good detail, without pronounced peaks and dips, excessive aggression or distortion. The sound has a natural "skin tone", where each sound has its own weight. The musical picture is drawn in a neutral manner, with a harmonious and proportionate rendering of micro and macro nuances.

The virtual sound stage is medium in size, quite spaciously built in width and slightly less in depth. Sound sources are precisely placed in space. S1 has a good tonal balance, delivering all the sound material cleanly, with proper expression, comfortable, but honestly, without too much coloring.














The bass is neutral, biting, calibrated and well controlled. Here, just a little lacks massiveness, but in general, everything is very good. Quantitatively, it is not much, but there are no complaints about the quality of mining. Here there is an exact hit, and relief, and decent speed characteristics, and a good, taking into account the device class, texture transfer. In fact, for these sizes, DAC / AMP is an amazing result. The midbass area is neatly forced, which allows us to talk about a comfortable, slightly warm, plastic and very musical manner.



The mid-frequency range is presented cleanly, distinctly and smoothly, with good detail and decent resolution. Sincerity is above all, and this gives the result in the form of incredible melody. String instruments sound very naturalistic, where each pinch and touch of the strings are clearly drawn. Vocal parts sound lively and expressive.

Here, a balance so pleasant to me has been reached between refined emotionality and a reasonable neutral manner. Any musical genre will sound as comfortable, detailed and very melodic as possible.



High frequencies do not excite the ear with excessive sharpness, they are transmitted very accurately, neutrally, legibly and in detail. There are not many and not few, as many as needed. They are not rude, everything is served quite cleanly, smoothly and comfortably. Yes, there is a slight simplification in this register, but for a budget device of such a small size, this is quite good. In general, Highs have a good resolution, served tactfully, adding contrast and airiness to the overall sound picture.









PAW S1 has wonderful “aristocratic” manners: it doesn't add anything extra to the sound and allows your IEM / Headphones to show their own  voice. 
Only really cool audio sources can boast of such quality. By the way, it is worth noting the complete absence in the sound of dirt and any distortion.










*Conclusion*

So, I can confidently say that Lotoo PAW S1 was a success. To this kid, by and large, there is nothing to complain about, and there is no reason to. The device immediately captivates with its “mature” and pleasant sound, lays out the sound palette cleanly and skillfully, has a stylish, concise design, and its size allows you to put S1 in your shirt pocket, or take it with you for a run, go in for sports, anywhere. Do not forget about the presence of two headphone outputs: balanced 4.4 mm, regular 3.5 mm, as well as compatibility with all OS without any problems.

And the development of modern streaming services (Tidal, Spotify, Deezer, etc.) makes such “plugs” an ideal addition to a smartphone or laptop. In my opinion, the PAW S1 is the best miniature device I have ever tested.

The price of the novelty is also pleasing. Lotoo PAW S1 will be available for $ 165.

Responsibly declare that this is one of the most profitable options for converting money into high-quality sound.



*Pros *
Sound, design, size, price.

*Cons *
No


----------



## JimJim

AlexCBSN said:


> Where?



Only 4.4mm and yet expensive then lotoo paw s1


----------



## musicday

PokerFaze said:


> Probably one of the best purchases I've made this year.


For me too. They will sell many, but I am sure they have already did .


----------



## ratrace

Bought it for my office setup... 

For now, just trying it out with my iPhone XS Max and Samsung Tablet (S5E).  Working flawlessly so far. And no hiss with my Andromeda.


----------



## Hi-fi Wigwammer

I have a Dragonfly Cobalt here on loan. Has anyone compared the S1 to it yet?


----------



## musicday

ratrace said:


> Bought it for my office setup...
> 
> For now, just trying it out with my iPhone XS Max and Samsung Tablet (S5E).  Working flawlessly so far. And no hiss with my Andromeda.


How is the tablet S5E? I was thinking to buy the Tab S6 just for internet and movies. What's the battery when using the screen. Thank you.


----------



## musicday

Hi-fi Wigwammer said:


> I have a Dragonfly Cobalt here on loan. Has anyone compared the S1 to it yet?


Read post #69, for a brief description.


----------



## hakunamakaka

JimJim said:


> Only 4.4mm and yet expensive then lotoo paw s1




Yin Lu mei S2 seems interesting as well, I just wonder how much of the performance they can push to usb stick sized dac/amp...When I bought Ha-2 and compared it DFR using higher end hp, I could straight away see that HA-2 is clearly step ahead, it's just phone sized dac/amps are not portable for me anymore, unless it could be used through bluetooth, but on few tests wired seemed more clear and open sounding to me


----------



## ratrace

musicday said:


> How is the tablet S5E? I was thinking to buy the Tab S6 just for internet and movies. What's the battery when using the screen. Thank you.


Think S5E good enough for internet and movies.. the battery is ok. Of course that depends on how you use it.. for me, moderate usage of videos (Netflix or YouTube) and some emails and readings, last for a day..


----------



## Spidermanxd

Can we skip track when hook up to phones?


----------



## bflat

Spidermanxd said:


> Can we skip track when hook up to phones?



The S1 only has volume controls so you will need to control tracks from your phone.


----------



## alexlevn0791

Can the S1 decode bit-perfect with the Asio driver on Jriver folks?


----------



## bflat

alexlevn0791 said:


> Can the S1 decode bit-perfect with the Asio driver on Jriver folks?



Sure it can, do you have the ASIO driver for the S1? If so can you share it?


----------



## thomaspf

alexlevn0791 said:


> Can the S1 decode bit-perfect with the Asio driver on Jriver folks?


It can do bit perfect using the Windows native USB Audio Class 2 WASAPI driver in exclusive mode. DSD will get encoded as DOP and it works up to DSF128.

I suppose Lotoo could decide to release an ASIO driver for it but what benefit do you expect to see from that?

Cheers

   Thomas


----------



## hakunamakaka

This yin lu mei s2 is going on aliexpress now. There should be a thread on head-fi and its being sol by linsoul  as well for cheaper now 190$
Really interested how it sounds 
https://www.linsoul.com/products/yinlvmei-s2


----------



## musicday

Not sure if burn in apply for this usb DAC but after few days of use the sound is better, more mature.


----------



## monsieurfromag3

hakunamakaka said:


> This yin lu mei s2 is going on aliexpress now. There should be a thread on head-fi and its being sol by linsoul  as well for cheaper now 190$
> Really interested how it sounds
> https://www.linsoul.com/products/yinlvmei-s2


Too bad it doesn’t have balanced out, that brings it back down a notch.


----------



## musicday

How many of you are using MQA? The firmware that will allow S1 to play MQA format should be coming soon.


----------



## hakunamakaka

musicday said:


> How many of you are using MQA? The firmware that will allow S1 to play MQA format should be coming soon.




Well if firmware will be released I might be getting tidal  membership to test for mqa, but it really will boil down to this if there will be any audible difference between good 320kb mp3 and mqa using high end hp ?  More than a year ago I had a chance to test hi-res Tidal vs 320kb spotify and I swear I couldn’t hear a difference on Badbadnotgood album, but some different songs, especially older releases sounded better on Tidal, if its the same for an album it should be the same for other releases, weird...maybe spotify compression algorithm is failing sometimes.


----------



## Metalboyy

hakunamakaka said:


> Well if firmware will be released I might be getting tidal  membership to test for mqa, but it really will boil down to this if there will be any audible difference between good 320kb mp3 and mqa using high end hp ?  More than a year ago I had a chance to test hi-res Tidal vs 320kb spotify and I swear I couldn’t hear a difference on Badbadnotgood album, but some different songs, especially older releases sounded better on Tidal, if its the same for an album it should be the same for other releases, weird...maybe spotify compression algorithm is failing sometimes.



I have noticed that some mqa albums on tidal sounds terrible for some reason. Most sounds atleast as good as non mqa hifi.


----------



## Combover Grover

Does any usbc to lightning cable work with the S1?


----------



## hakunamakaka

Metalboyy said:


> I have noticed that some mqa albums on tidal sounds terrible for some reason. Most sounds atleast as good as non mqa hifi.




This most likely is due to poor mastering and low quality record release. In such case no high quality format will fix bad sounding, only hope is for record to be remastered, but such thing costs $ for sound engineers labour, licenses, etc. Once remastered these records will firstly appear in vinyl and as an option to buy digital format, only after a while you might be lucky to spot them in stream services. Unfortunately only popular records which are targeted for huge audience  or very selective ones which has big demand between music collectors and keeps high price of original record release. As an example I have funkadelic - Maggot Brain, original vinyl print, flac...all sound same as on youtube due to poor mastering at that time


----------



## hakunamakaka

Combover Grover said:


> Does any usbc to lightning cable work with the S1?



Yes it will work, you can specify S1 to be compatible with IOS and they will include necessary cables. myself was just impatient and ordered from jaben audio not sure with what cable they will deliver as there was no option to select...


----------



## JimJim

Combover Grover said:


> Does any usbc to lightning cable work with the S1?




Yes. But better connection need to be MFI certified. Wise lighting adapter converter.


----------



## JimJim

Use can use this to convert your existing lighting cable to attach Lotoo Paw S1


----------



## JimJim

這陣子大家很關心的Lotoo PAW S1 雜訊干擾的問題應該有解了！上個月在鷗霖搶到一支S1後，愛不釋手，但就是在4G訊號下聽iTune偶爾會有雜訊干擾（wifi環境下則無），因此外出聽這隻就得先找咖啡廳的wifi。這情況也第一時間跟鷗霖老闆大大反饋了。 昨天再次到鷗霖血拼，老闆大大問S1有帶嗎？（當然隨身帶著囉）接著說盡力幫我處理雜訊的問題。頓時店內化身工作室，材料、熱融槍都出動！不一會兒搞定兩隻OTG線材，並在S1背後貼著一張小小的「第六元素量子貼」。（內心OS想說這售後服務也太強大，幾千元的東西背後，看到專業與貼心的執著！感動啊！） 說到這，那到底有沒有改善？！下班尖峰時間就抱著改裝後的S1到捷運站旁的星巴克給他桶來聽聽！（也就是當初買完後第一次拿出來聽且有持續雜訊的地方）一樣是接iPhone聽iTune串流，耳機是ier-z1r。聽了半小時，興奮跟老闆回報目前都沒有聽到雜訊，「傑克，這真的太神奇了！」晚上小孩都睡了之後，在書房訊號較差的地方再試一次（之前聽的時候雜訊比星巴克還嚴重），搭配Dunu的17th，在一開始出現微微的雜訊，但聽了5分鐘後雜訊音少很多，歌曲轉換時也偶爾有一些。換到客廳訊號較好的地方則無。 說這麼多，心裡想終於找到為這個小鋼炮升級的方式了，花一些摳摳排除讓我有點小困擾的雜訊音，讓我更愛了！再次感謝鷗霖老闆大大的貼心服務。也把這個方式推薦給擁有S1的燒友大大們。 #不得不說老闆對線材的包覆施工堪比pro級

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2191192474259756/permalink/3170276823017978/

FYI I copy from FB group. Pls use translation.


----------



## AlexCBSN

Just got mine, i was impressed how fast shipping was even with covid 19, will update firmware later on, for now though, i was really impressed and satisfied, only thing would be the volume since im used to change it from my phone ... sometimes when i do it in public without taking the phone out of my pocket it might look ... wrong... anyway! ill update the firmware, by the way! why they called an effect DENTAL? i was like "is that like a dentist sound or something?"


----------



## acap13

AlexCBSN said:


> Just got mine, i was impressed how fast shipping was even with covid 19, will update firmware later on, for now though, i was really impressed and satisfied, only thing would be the volume since im used to change it from my phone ... sometimes when i do it in public without taking the phone out of my pocket it might look ... wrong... anyway! ill update the firmware, by the way! why they called an effect DENTAL? i was like "is that like a dentist sound or something?"



I’ m not going to add something to that but if it helps, FITEAR founder was a dentist. 

lol jk jk TBH I wonder too since the early days of Lotoo DAPs. And now this is something that within my price range. Really piqued my interest. Looking forward to hearing more impressions soon


----------



## LuckyGhoul (Jun 4, 2020)

Just to add another cable that works, Apple Lighting USB 3 Camera Adapter works flawlessly with any old USB A to USB C cable. You can charge your phone too!

Also regarding the power output, I found that S1 can drive HD650 to painful levels in high gain — just for those that might be curious.


----------



## AlexCBSN

LuckyGhoul said:


> Just to add another cable that works, Apple Lighting USB 3 Camera Adapter works flawlessly with any old USB A to USB C cable. You can charge your phone too!
> 
> Also regarding the power output, I found that S1 can drive HD650 to painful levels in high gain — just for those that might be curious.



That’s how I’m using em, usb c to usb a and camera adapter, don’t want to use the bundle cable yet, it’s too pretty for it to start wearing.

I’ve been juggling around with it now, YouTube with movie sounds perfect, find the none setting quite transparent. I’ve been swapping between this and the ed1a 9028g3, mmmmmm it’s difficult to talk about it yet, though both have appealing qualities


----------



## 8481

hakunamakaka said:


> seems a bit struggle with short lighting to c, I’ve order s1 from jaben audio, hopefully package will include  cable compatible iphone



I just got mine from Jaben, did you order the package with the lightning cable? I did and works great so far.


----------



## hakunamakaka

8481 said:


> I just got mine from Jaben, did you order the package with the lightning cable? I did and works great so far.




I asked them to include such, but I'm just waiting now with no updates so far. How long did you had to wait ? It's been 1.5 weeks for me and they haven't even shipped it yet or at least given me the date when s1 would be shipped, a bit disappointed....I think I'll stick to ebay and ali in future


----------



## 8481 (Jun 4, 2020)

I ordered on the 22nd of May and contacted them through FB. They gave me my tracking number there. Shipped from Singapore to Malaysia. Took total of 12 days.

If you wanted the IOS cable I think you’d have to choose the IOS bundle, not sure if they can exchange the provided cable.

Edit: Woops forgot to quote @hakunamakaka

May not March*


----------



## JimJim

hakunamakaka said:


> I asked them to include such, but I'm just waiting now with no updates so far. How long did you had to wait ? It's been 1.5 weeks for me and they haven't even shipped it yet or at least given me the date when s1 would be shipped, a bit disappointed....I think I'll stick to ebay and ali in future



Fastest is from Taobao Official store. But Taobao 1st day launch sold out within 30mins.
Only some sites doing pre-order before that.
1. Jaben Singapore 
2. RED APE MALAYSIA 
3. MUSICTECK USA.


----------



## JimJim

8481 said:


> I ordered on the 22nd of March and contacted them through FB. They gave me my tracking number there. Shipped from Singapore to Malaysia. Took total of 12 days.
> 
> If you wanted the IOS cable I think you’d have to choose the IOS bundle, not sure if they can exchange the provided cable.
> 
> Edit: Woops forgot to quote @hakunamakaka



Is paying extra for ios cable. Is just musicteck doing for free limited quantity bundle.
Ios bundle 2 cable provides 1 lighting 1 usb-c 
Standard package 1 usb-c


----------



## 8481

JimJim said:


> Fastest is from Taobao Official store. But Taobao 1st day launch sold out within 30mins.
> Only some sites doing pre-order before that.
> 1. Jaben Singapore
> 2. RED APE MALAYSIA
> 3. MUSICTECK USA.



Oh dang, didn't know Red Ape had it.


----------



## hakunamakaka

8481 said:


> I ordered on the 22nd of March and contacted them through FB. They gave me my tracking number there. Shipped from Singapore to Malaysia. Took total of 12 days.
> 
> If you wanted the IOS cable I think you’d have to choose the IOS bundle, not sure if they can exchange the provided cable.
> 
> Edit: Woops forgot to quote @hakunamakaka




Pff something is not right with my order, I don’t get a tracking number from them. Maybe out of stock, but they could just tell me


----------



## JimJim

8481 said:


> Oh dang, didn't know Red Ape had it.



Last week I visited them last pcs. But price bit pricey.

@hakunamakaka I think they have limited stocks maybe waiting from Project Perfection Pte Ltd to refurbishing stocks.


----------



## JimJim

8481 said:


> I ordered on the 22nd of March and contacted them through FB. They gave me my tracking number there. Shipped from Singapore to Malaysia. Took total of 12 days.
> 
> If you wanted the IOS cable I think you’d have to choose the IOS bundle, not sure if they can exchange the provided cable.
> 
> Edit: Woops forgot to quote @hakunamakaka



So fast March??? That is what they reply me.


----------



## 8481

JimJim said:


> So fast March??? That is what they reply me.



Hahah my bad, I meant May.


----------



## 8481

hakunamakaka said:


> Pff something is not right with my order, I don’t get a tracking number from them. Maybe out of stock, but they could just tell me



Try asking them on FB, they replied very fast.


----------



## hakunamakaka

I wrote them before, they told that will update me once they will ship it. I have patience now but once my ciem will arrive it will be hard to wait


----------



## stersa

Mine ..at home.. 




And.. Upgraded ...






Best regards

Sisco


----------



## stersa

Perfect match for Solaris 2020.. 



Fantastic combination for sound,and 0 hiss...

Dap?.. no tks..

Best regards

Sisco


----------



## hakunamakaka

Did anyone compared S1 to a decent DAP, maybe even vs Lotoo's line DAP. One side of me wants dedicated dap, another saying to stop making unnecessary purchases. What holds me from purchase of DAP is dependency on WIFI for streamed music


----------



## stersa

I have sold all my daps —-I don t need them.
I prefer lotoo and Apple Dongle for Solaris,and Ibasso Dc01 for my Dunu dk3001 pro.

But is my personal choice after having had many daps

best


----------



## JimJim

hakunamakaka said:


> Did anyone compared S1 to a decent DAP, maybe even vs Lotoo's line DAP. One side of me wants dedicated dap, another saying to stop making unnecessary purchases. What holds me from purchase of DAP is dependency on WIFI for streamed music



DAP and DAC 2 different thing.

DAP can be independently BUT DAC nope.


----------



## hakunamakaka

JimJim said:


> DAP and DAC 2 different thing.
> 
> DAP can be independently BUT DAC nope.




Yes, but if usb dac/amp can punch close to good quality dap player I do not see any point for myself spending lots of $$ for a decent dap and stay dependant on wifi as I do not store music. such a small dongle in my pocked would be fine and I don’t need much power my planars and iems are easy to drive. I’m interested only from SQ standpoint


----------



## musicday

stersa said:


> I have sold all my daps —-I don t need them.
> I prefer lotoo and Apple Dongle for Solaris,and Ibasso Dc01 for my Dunu dk3001 pro.
> 
> But is my personal choice after having had many daps
> ...


Did you try DK2001 with S1? How is the DX3001 Pro with the S1? You have no more music players, really?


----------



## stersa

musicday said:


> Did you try DK2001 with S1? How is the DX3001 Pro with the S1? You have no more music players, really?


i don t have a 2001. I ll try tomorrow with my dunu 3001 pro.

yes,i only have my P30 pro,tomorrow arrives a LGV30+ as a main player. and my doongles and my Earstudio E100 for bth ..Nothing more



Best regards

Sisco


----------



## hakunamakaka

stersa said:


> i don t have a 2001. I ll try tomorrow with my dunu 3001 pro.
> 
> yes,i only have my P30 pro,tomorrow arrives a LGV30+ as a main player. and my doongles and my Earstudio E100 for bth ..Nothing more
> 
> ...




Do find sq difference between earstudio e100 and Lotoo S1 ? I’ve ordered up4 for bluetooth


----------



## Wyville

hakunamakaka said:


> Yes, but if usb dac/amp can punch close to good quality dap player I do not see any point for myself spending lots of $$ for a decent dap and stay dependant on wifi as I do not store music. such a small dongle in my pocked would be fine and I don’t need much power my planars and iems are easy to drive. I’m interested only from SQ standpoint


I have the PAW6000 and I am still really impressed by the sound quality of the S1 when I use it with my MacBook Pro. I have not done a specific A/B comparison or critical listening, but when just enjoying my music with the S1 I don't feel like I am missing out. It really is a great performer and is now permanently stuck in my Mac, unless I want to use it somewhere else. One great advantage is that the S1 has a really clean sound and I can now use sensitive IEMs with my Mac that I could otherwise not use due to hiss.


----------



## stersa

hakunamakaka said:


> Do find sq difference between earstudio e100 and Lotoo S1 ? I’ve ordered up4 for bluetooth



I have not compared them ... but with the Solaris 2020, the E100 makes a perfect dance partner


----------



## stersa (Jun 4, 2020)

Wyville said:


> I have the PAW6000 and I am still really impressed by the sound quality of the S1 when I use it with my MacBook Pro. I have not done a specific A/B comparison or critical listening, but when just enjoying my music with the S1 I don't feel like I am missing out. It really is a great performer and is now permanently stuck in my Mac, unless I want to use it somewhere else. One great advantage is that the S1 has a really clean sound and I can now use sensitive IEMs with my Mac that I could otherwise not use due to hiss.




Agree 100x100 with my Mac


----------



## NCUS (Jun 4, 2020)

I'm new to this forum, but I do have a Fiio BTR5 and a Lotoo PAW S1 as well as Focal Stellia headphones.  In reference to the prior question regarding the ES100 vs. Lotoo, I have read that the BTR5 is comparable or maybe a slight sound quality improvement vs. the E100.  So hopefully my perspective will help.  Vs the Lotoo, the BTR5 sounds much more bloated in the bass which tends to swamp out some of the nuance in music.  The PAW S1 has a much more crystalline quality to the sound.  You can notice this clearly with pop music that has a lot of bass.  It also shows with orchestral music, as the BTR5 tends to gloss over some of the differences across the string sections, for instance.  This is with the BTR5 connected via USB-C to my laptop.  The Lotoo also works pretty well with my iphone as it passes even 192khz through with the lightning adapter I got from Lotoo.  I haven't had the time yet to figure out how to use the BTR5 with an iphone, it seems dead set on connecting only via bluetooth.


----------



## hakunamakaka

NCUS said:


> I'm new to this forum, but I do have a Fiio BTR5 and a Lotoo PAW S1 as well as Focal Stellia headphones.  In reference to the prior question regarding the ES100 vs. Lotoo, I have read that the BTR5 is comparable or maybe a slight sound quality improvement vs. the E100.  So hopefully my perspective will help.  Vs the Lotoo, the BTR5 sounds much more bloated in the bass which tends to swamp out some of the nuance in music.  The PAW S1 has a much more crystalline quality to the sound.  You can notice this clearly with pop music that has a lot of bass.  It also shows with orchestral music, as the BTR5 tends to gloss over some of the differences across the string sections, for instance.  This is with the BTR5 connected via USB-C to my laptop.  The Lotoo also works pretty well with my iphone as it passes even 192khz through with the lightning adapter I got from Lotoo.  I haven't had the time yet to figure out how to use the BTR5 with an iphone, it seems dead set on connecting only via bluetooth.




Mmm sounds promising, I really don't know what I'm waiting more anymore...to get laid or Lotoo S1 to arrive, cmon jaben audio send it


----------



## JohnPham

I have both the Lotoo S1 and the iFi Hip DAC on the way and can share impressions and comparisons between the two devices if anyone is interested. From what I have read about the S1 so far it seems pretty promising and can't wait to test it out


----------



## cocolinho

JohnPham said:


> I have both the Lotoo S1 and the iFi Hip DAC on the way and can share impressions and comparisons between the two devices if anyone is interested. From what I have read about the S1 so far it seems pretty promising and can't wait to test it out


I'll be happy to read your opinion since I'm debating which one to get. So far I'm leading towards S1


----------



## HiFlight

stersa said:


> i don t have a 2001. I ll try tomorrow with my dunu 3001 pro.
> 
> yes,i only have my P30 pro,tomorrow arrives a LGV30+ as a main player. and my doongles and my Earstudio E100 for bth ..Nothing more
> 
> ...


I do have the DK-2001 and they sound superb paired with my S1.  Very pleased with the genre versatility.  The 2001 has proven to be an excellent all-arounder!


----------



## musicday

HiFlight said:


> I do have the DK-2001 and they sound superb paired with my S1.  Very pleased with the genre versatility.  The 2001 has proven to be an excellent all-arounder!


Have you heard the 3001 Pro with S1? I am trying to decide between the two. Also they must work great with movies with deep bass and very comfortable for long time.


----------



## Damz87

hakunamakaka said:


> Mmm sounds promising, I really don't know what I'm waiting more anymore...to get laid or Lotoo S1 to arrive, cmon jaben audio send it



I contacted Jaben as I’m also waiting on my S1 order to be shipped. They told me their stock should arrive early next week.


----------



## hakunamakaka

Damz87 said:


> I contacted Jaben as I’m also waiting on my S1 order to be shipped. They told me their stock should arrive early next week.


 
Thanks seems at least a minimum 1-2month to wait for me I need to stop reading this thread as it just makes more difficult to be patient


----------



## jsmiller58

hakunamakaka said:


> Mmm sounds promising, I really don't know what I'm waiting more anymore...to get laid or Lotoo S1 to arrive, cmon jaben audio send it


Well...  so much to say...  so little courage to say it...


----------



## HiFlight

musicday said:


> Have you heard the 3001 Pro with S1? I am trying to decide between the two. Also they must work great with movies with deep bass and very comfortable for long time.


i haven't heard the 3001 but they go deep and are all-day comfy.  Quite tip dependent.


----------



## thesheik137

EMI noise was too much for me when attached to my phone, so diy action had to be taken.


----------



## AlexCBSN

thesheik137 said:


> EMI noise was too much for me when attached to my phone, so diy action had to be taken.


i was about to start my rant about it, what did you stick on it?

Its incredible that a brand as ltp screwed up that, so much EFI, i cant stand it, in between the EFI and the damn volume on the device... after a bad day like the one i had... coming home and having lower volume parts in some albums just makes it unbearable with all the EFI. seriously What?


----------



## thesheik137

AlexCBSN said:


> i was about to start my rant about it, what did you stick on it?
> 
> Its incredible that a brand as ltp screwed up that, so much EFI, i cant stand it, in between the EFI and the damn volume on the device... after a bad day like the one i had... coming home and having lower volume parts in some albums just makes it unbearable with all the EFI. seriously What?



I wrapped it up in TitanRF Faraday Tape, but I'm sure there are other options as well. But I agree, for a device that's meant to be connected to your phone there should have been better shielding imo.


----------



## mashuto (Jun 4, 2020)

thesheik137 said:


> I wrapped it up in TitanRF Faraday Tape, but I'm sure there are other options as well. But I agree, for a device that's meant to be connected to your phone there should have been better shielding imo.


Just to provide a counterpoint here. I have been using it fairly regularly with pretty sensitive IEMs (solaris 2020), and have only noticed the tinyest amount of RF interference. I should also say, its on an android phone, a oneplus 5t, so not sure if thats just less prone to generating interference?

Are you guys using balanced or se? I only ask because I know with the n6ii that I have, the balanced output (on the a01 board) was definitely more prone to interference than the single ended... something about it not being grounded, or something.

Also, the mojo, a super popular device that is also meant to be attached to phones is terrible for interference. So, doesnt quite seem to be a high priority among some equipment manufacturers.


----------



## thesheik137

mashuto said:


> Just to provide a counterpoint here. I have been using it fairly regularly with pretty sensitive IEMs (solaris 2020), and have only noticed the tinyest amount of RF interference. I should also say, its on an android phone, a oneplus 5t, so not sure if thats just less prone to generating interference?
> 
> Are you guys using balanced or se? I only ask because I know with the n6ii that I have, the balanced output (on the a01 board) was definitely more prone to interference than the single ended... something about it not being grounded, or something.
> 
> Also, the mojo, a super popular device that is also meant to be attached to phones is terrible for interference. So, doesnt quite seem to be a high priority among some equipment manufacturers.



There are two cases where I have observed it relatively consistently. One is in the room where my router is, which is obviously very close to a lot of signals and maybe we can give it a pass, but other daps with better shielding have no issues. The other is when I am streaming music via 4G and the lotoo is connected to the back of my phone. This will vary on the phone and how strong of a signal there is. It gets louder when there is low connectivity. Also I don't hear really hear as much when streaming over wifi. For all of these situations, I am using IEMs with 111db/mw sensitivity via the 4.4mm balanced output.


----------



## AlexCBSN

Me too, using balance with no so sensitive iems (imr r1z, my daily ones)


----------



## ThomasHK

stersa said:


> Perfect match for Solaris 2020..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What modular cable is that?


----------



## JimJim

thesheik137 said:


> EMI noise was too much for me when attached to my phone, so diy action had to be taken.



Read post #227 many change the cable. Or wrap the cable.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jun 4, 2020)

Same here - interference when connected to my phone.  But, not when connected to my R6 Pro.  My guess is it is related to cellular connectivity.  This is the same problem I have with the 9038s gen2 - interference from cellular connectivity.


----------



## thesheik137

JimJim said:


> Read post #227 many change the cable. Or wrap the cable.


I have the ddhifi usb-c to usb-c with aluminum shielding incoming, so I will have to see if there is a difference with that one.


----------



## AlexCBSN (Jun 4, 2020)

thesheik137 said:


> I have the ddhifi usb-c to usb-c with aluminum shielding incoming, so I will have to see if there is a difference with that one.


any links you can share?


sorry about that, just had to google it


----------



## thesheik137

AlexCBSN said:


> any links you can share?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961312907.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2a874c4d5JiXTU


----------



## JimJim

thesheik137 said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961312907.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2a874c4d5JiXTU



Mine also shipping with Paw S1 together next week


----------



## stersa

ThomasHK said:


> What modular cable is that?



*Fiio LC RE Tri metallic

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...hone-mmcx-0-78mm-cable-for-fiio-shure.930572/*


----------



## stersa (Jun 5, 2020)

The combination..Dunu Dk3001pro with S1 in 4,4mm balanced mode.....AWESOME 







With Yello, the bass is perfectly defined, and very well articulated.
.....


----------



## musicday

Hey, Cisco, I know that you had very expensive headphones and music players. How come did you come down to phone/S1/DK3001 Pro?
How is the earphone compared to other high end ones you have tried/heard?


----------



## mashuto

thesheik137 said:


> There are two cases where I have observed it relatively consistently. One is in the room where my router is, which is obviously very close to a lot of signals and maybe we can give it a pass, but other daps with better shielding have no issues. The other is when I am streaming music via 4G and the lotoo is connected to the back of my phone. This will vary on the phone and how strong of a signal there is. It gets louder when there is low connectivity. Also I don't hear really hear as much when streaming over wifi. For all of these situations, I am using IEMs with 111db/mw sensitivity via the 4.4mm balanced output.


Hmm, fair enough. I also have been on wifi almost entirely so haven't had the chance to see what happens when on mobile data. Might try it out today and see.


----------



## stersa

musicday said:


> Hey, Cisco, I know that you had very expensive headphones and music players. How come did you come down to phone/S1/DK3001 Pro?
> How is the earphone compared to other high end ones you have tried/heard?




There are moments for everything.
I've already had a chance to get a taste of the best of the best in the world of headphones.
Very expensive amplifiers and dacs, along with headphones of up to 5000 euros. Collection of more than 100 headphones of all kinds.
But the moment came when I realized that it was an endless race, so I decided to see what really satisfied me the most ... and not to drag this explanation out much.

I don't like big headphones in the summer here, it's very hot, and they bother me a lot, as well as their weight.

I have also tried many IEMS of many levels, and in the end, I have decided that the Dunu DK3001pro and the Solaris 2020, are my favorites for different times. The Dunu more for battle, to take them away from home, and the Solaris 2020, for my house, because they are better than many large headphones that I have tried.

And speaking of Daps, and NONE, it has given me the benefits that Smartphones give me along with good doongles, neither for comfort, or for sound ... only in power, but if we close our eyes and DO NOT see what it sounds, you take many surprises, and it has happened to me with very expensive things ...

Hence, I am now in this very personal situation.

A little explanation of what you asked me ..

Cheers

Sisco


----------



## musicday

stersa said:


> There are moments for everything.
> I've already had a chance to get a taste of the best of the best in the world of headphones.
> Very expensive amplifiers and dacs, along with headphones of up to 5000 euros. Collection of more than 100 headphones of all kinds.
> But the moment came when I realized that it was an endless race, so I decided to see what really satisfied me the most ... and not to drag this explanation out much.
> ...


That makes sense, thank you. Have you heard the Luna, wondering how it compares to Solaris 2020 and which is a better IEM for S1 or in general.


----------



## stersa (Jun 5, 2020)

musicday said:


> That makes sense, thank you. Have you heard the Luna, wondering how it compares to Solaris 2020 and which is a better IEM for S1 or in general.



Not interested in Luna.It´s too neutral for my tastes..

I prefer more body

The clean sound of S1 it s perfect for a Solaris

best regards

sisco


----------



## davidmolliere

Of all the things I'd say about Luna balanced comes to mind but neutral? Luna is such a vivid IEM with the best macro and micro dynamics.... it's intense and lively


----------



## JohnPham (Jun 5, 2020)

So I got the Lotoo S1 yesterday and just received the iFi Hip DAC about an hour ago. I have been A/B'ing the two units for about half an hour now with my pair of Final Audio B3 IEM's which are a relatively neutral set of IEM's out of the 4.4 balanced output on both DAC's.

My initial impressions of the Lotoo S1 is that it is very neutral sounding in general and definitely seems more reference in its presentation. There is no emphasis on any region of the sound signature and everything is presented as is according to the music. I have heard from others who have posted on this thread previously that the "dental" EQ setting improved on the detail presentation of the S1 which I also found to be true. The dental EQ does make the S1 sound a little but more clear and airy in its presentation. The S1 is very clean sounding and I would recommend the S1 for those that are looking for a cleaner/reference sound. Some things I felt the S1 was a little lacking in was how it affected instrument decay and soundstage. However, I believe this is due to do with the power output of the S1 more than anything. My Final B3's are relatively inefficient when it comes to the power needed. The 120 mW power output out of the balanced connection on the S1 does seems a little inadequate for my Final B3's. With insufficient power, my IEM's exhibit a smaller soundstage. Through the S1, the soundstage was smaller and this lead to music being more "in your face" from the instruments to the vocals. Some might like this presentation, but for me personally I wished there was more space in the soundstage. Instrument decay seemed to be a little shorter than on the iFi Hip DAC.

Moving on to the iFi Hip DAC, my initial impressions after about 30 minutes of use is very different to that of the S1. I would describe the Hip DAC (in comparison to the S1) to be more lush/warm in its sound delivery with more bass presence and vocal forwardness. The mid bass is more present than on the S1 which has a more linear approach to each region of the sound frequency response. I also noticed that vocals are more forward and seem to float above the instruments ever so slightly, and sounded fuller and more lush whereas the S1 vocals sounded a little more thin/crisp in comparison. The vocals also have a more shimmery presentation/decay when compared to the S1. The soundstage on the Hip DAC is definitely more wide than compared to the S1 with more width (the instruments and vocals are a little further out). To me personally, this lead to the sensation of more space between each instrument and the vocals, which gave the impression of a less "in your face" presentation. I think this increase in soundstage is due to the higher power output of the balanced output of the Hip DAC (400 mW compared to the 120 mW of the S1). I also tried out the xBass function of the Hip DAC and found that it does elevate the bass region in a tasteful way, but it does sometimes bleed into the midrange, causing the vocals to become a little muddy when compared to the xBass being off. Also as a side note, the iFi Hip DAC on high gain out of the balanced 4.4 output did have some audible background noise.

Please keep in mind these are impressions from a very short period of use and these are just things that stood out to me initially. But as of right now, I personally am leaning towards the Hip DAC due to its wider soundstage presentation and warmer/lusher sound when compared to the S1. Since my IEM's are relatively neutral with a sub-bass rolloff, the warmth added by the Hip DAC is enjoyable to listen to. The Hip DAC definitely provides a more relaxed listening experience whereas the S1 is definitely more neutral and reference. I appreciate how clean sounding the S1 is in general and would recommend it to those looking for a brighter/more neutral sound or for those with warmer gear and want to have a very portable AMP/DAC dongle that does not color the sound and instead takes a step back, allowing the gear to shine through. The Hip DAC I would recommend to those that are looking for a warmer, more lush, more musical, and more relaxing experience. I think if you already have warm sounding headphones/IEM's the Hip DAC would color the sound a little too much imo, but if you have neutral/bright equipment and you are looking to add some warmth, the Hip DAC is perfect for you. Also if you have harder to drive equipment that needs more power, I would recommend the Hip DAC over the S1. If it is portability you are after, the S1 wins hands down. This wraps up my thoughts for now and feel free to ask questions.


----------



## rustyvinyl

JohnPham said:


> So I got the Lotoo S1 yesterday and just received the iFi Hip DAC about an hour ago. I have been A/B'ing the two units for about half an hour now with my pair of Final Audio B3 IEM's which are a relatively neutral set of IEM's out of the 4.4 balanced output on both DAC's.
> 
> My initial impressions of the Lotoo S1 is that it is very neutral sounding in general and definitely seems more reference in its presentation. There is no emphasis on any region of the sound signature and everything is presented as is according to the music. I have heard from others who have posted on this thread previously that the "dental" EQ setting improved on the detail presentation of the S1 which I also found to be true. The dental EQ does make the S1 sound a little but more clear and airy in its presentation. The S1 is very clean sounding and I would recommend the S1 for those that are looking for a cleaner/reference sound. Some things I felt the S1 was a little lacking in was how it affected instrument decay and soundstage. However, I believe this is due to do with the power output of the S1 more than anything. My Final B3's are relatively inefficient when it comes to the power needed. The 120 mW power output out of the balanced connection on the S1 does seems a little inadequate for my Final B3's. With insufficient power, my IEM's exhibit a smaller soundstage. Through the S1, the soundstage was smaller and this lead to music being more "in your face" from the instruments to the vocals. Some might like this presentation, but for me personally I wished there was more space in the soundstage. Instrument decay seemed to be a little shorter than on the iFi Hip DAC.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your early impressions. I'm considering these two dac as well. Would like to hear your views again after more listening.


----------



## koven

Any FiiO BTR5 owners plan to try S1? Curious about some comparison there.


----------



## stersa

For me,the best of S1 is..CLEAR SOUND,and NO BATTERY...

Best regards

sisco


----------



## andersos

Romi has mods for the S1 too

https://www.facebook.com/130163450713757/posts/1119855141744578/


----------



## musicday

andersos said:


> Romi has mods for the S1 too
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/130163450713757/posts/1119855141744578/


Can you believe that, they modify even the Hugo 2.
What exactly can they do to S1? More shielding for noise interference?


----------



## NCUS

koven said:


> Any FiiO BTR5 owners plan to try S1? Curious about some comparison there.



I have both (BTR5 and S1) and posted some short thoughts earlier in this thread.  In brief, the S1 is a more neutral and transparent device.  The BTR5 has a thicker presentation, which I think obscures too much detail but some people may prefer its thicker, warmer sound.


----------



## slumberman

Got mine today. 
I have to say I haven’t really been able to pay too much attention to the sound quality because the Background/ iPhone noise is intermittent and rampant, especially over very quiet pieces or passages. 
I think this’ll go back on Monday... sucks for the 4.4 connector, as i don’t like having to change cable when I use my phone,  but I can’t stand the noise.
One other thing, with CA Solaris, even the minimum volume at low gain is too loud for quiet listening, for me.

back to the Dragonfly Cobalt!


----------



## jsmiller58

slumberman said:


> Got mine today.
> I have to say I haven’t really been able to pay too much attention to the sound quality because the Background/ iPhone noise is intermittent and rampant, especially over very quiet pieces or passages.
> I think this’ll go back on Monday... sucks for the 4.4 connector, as i don’t like having to change cable when I use my phone,  but I can’t stand the noise.
> One other thing, with CA Solaris, even the minimum volume at low gain is too loud for quiet listening, for me.
> ...


Yeah, the interference is annoying...  I just don’t get why a maker of an dac/amp dongle wouldn‘t design for the largest market - the phone use case.  I do enjoy the S1 out of my R6 Pro DAP, but no way would I bother with it on my phone after hearing the interference.  Very perplexing design choice to be sure...

But, a nice accompaniment to my DAP.  Was expecting it to be more versatile.


----------



## slumberman

jsmiller58 said:


> Yeah, the interference is annoying...  I just don’t get why a maker of an dac/amp dongle wouldn‘t design for the largest market - the phone use case.  I do enjoy the S1 out of my R6 Pro DAP, but no way would I bother with it on my phone after hearing the interference.  Very perplexing design choice to be sure...
> 
> But, a nice accompaniment to my DAP.  Was expecting it to be more versatile.



I agree, however I already have a better sounding dap than this, so no point in keeping it. It was exclusively to be used with my iPhone, but it is unusable in my opinion due to the background intermittent noise.


----------



## NCUS

With a single ended connection and my iPhone, I don't hear any hiss or buzzing, either with wifi or cellular.  I'm using the Lotoo lightning adapter, and I tested this with classical music playing via Qobuz to an old Etymotic ER-4 IEM and a relatively new set of Focal Stellia over-ear headphones.  The only balanced cable I have has a XLR connection, so I couldn't test the 4.4MM output.


----------



## AlexCBSN

Well, Romi’s mod fix the noise supposedly, though 1) ship to Hong Kong 2) pay for the mod 3) shipping back

That’s around 200usd altogether ... maybe I’ll get some of that copper foil tape, modding with Romi sounds fun (cause he amplifies as well the balanced line and the se) but with Covid, money wise I cannot afford it, buying a new unit and get it shipped to him and then get the modded unit and sell the current one makes more sense to me

But seriously, this thing is really really noisy, I was working in the morning with it on and I was cringing the whole time with the noise, seriously can’t believe they didn’t test it in before and didn’t notice, it’s literally there almost the whole time with my cellphone


----------



## HiFlight

My S1 has been dead-silent with my Moto G7 Power both streaming and playing from SD card.  Phones used are Dunu DK-2001, ER4XR and Saturn S1.  Guess I am lucky!


----------



## jibberish

HiFlight said:


> My S1 has been dead-silent with my Moto G7 Power both streaming and playing from SD card.  Phones used are Dunu DK-2001, ER4XR and Saturn S1.  Guess I am lucky!


Same is true for me with my LG v40, at least for the use cases I have with it right now. Perfectly silent when I'm streaming on wifi or listening to downloaded/local files while using the 3.5mm port.


----------



## JohnPham

HiFlight said:


> My S1 has been dead-silent with my Moto G7 Power both streaming and playing from SD card.  Phones used are Dunu DK-2001, ER4XR and Saturn S1.  Guess I am lucky!





jibberish said:


> Same is true for me with my LG v40, at least for the use cases I have with it right now. Perfectly silent when I'm streaming on wifi or listening to downloaded/local files while using the 3.5mm port.


Wanted to also chime in and say I haven't heard any interference/noise from the S1 with my MacBook Pro/Final B3/4.4mm balanced port set up.


----------



## AlexCBSN

Yeah, try it with your phones, I mean from my ipad it’s dead silent as well, but my phone is a efi machine


----------



## jsmiller58

For those using the Lotoo S1 with cell phones and not hearing interference, I suggest an experiment...  turn off your WiFi and just use your cellular and see the difference.  I have an LG v30.  Streaming over WiFi no problem.  Turn off WiFi and rely just on cellular and I hear considerable interference.  Turn my WiFi back on and no interference.


----------



## Raketen

Don't have the S1 but have any of the people with interference issues tried a cable with a ferrite choke?


----------



## AlexCBSN

I might just send it to romi in a couple of days. The mod sounds cool and even though I cannot send my dear wm1a, the s1 can do the trick happily. I really like the sound of this dongle, why not jus do it


----------



## slumberman (Jun 9, 2020)

AlexCBSN said:


> I might just send it to romi in a couple of days. The mod sounds cool and even though I cannot send my dear wm1a, the s1 can do the trick happily. I really like the sound of this dongle, why not jus do it



Let us know how it goes!
I am selling mine if anyone in Europe is looking for one. It comes with the extra Lightning OTG cable. - *EDIT - SOLD*


----------



## jibberish

jsmiller58 said:


> For those using the Lotoo S1 with cell phones and not hearing interference, I suggest an experiment...  turn off your WiFi and just use your cellular and see the difference.  I have an LG v30.  Streaming over WiFi no problem.  Turn off WiFi and rely just on cellular and I hear considerable interference.  Turn my WiFi back on and no interference.


Still perfectly silent for me on my LG v40. Streaming Spotify over 4G right now and walking around the house with my phone in my pocket and the S1 and USB cable folded outside of it.
If I do ever notice it I'll make a note of it here, but thankfully so far I haven't encountered interference.


----------



## jeffri

Perhaps it depends to the frequency band that your LTE provider used. Some might affected more than other.


----------



## twister6

To those few people who do hear EMI effect when S1 is piggyback with their smartphone, what iems/headphones are you using and specifically, what cable? Different cables/connectors could act like antennas, picking up the noise (common issue with other daps). So, I'm curious if it could have the same effect here, and if you hear this interference with different headphones/cables you tried.


----------



## slumberman

twister6 said:


> To those few people who do hear EMI effect when S1 is piggyback with their smartphone, what iems/headphones are you using and specifically, what cable? Different cables/connectors could act like antennas, picking up the noise (common issue with other daps). So, I'm curious if it could have the same effect here, and if you hear this interference with different headphones/cables you tried.



I was using the Lotoo cable that came with the S1, and Campfire Solaris or Sony ier z1r


----------



## jsmiller58

twister6 said:


> To those few people who do hear EMI effect when S1 is piggyback with their smartphone, what iems/headphones are you using and specifically, what cable? Different cables/connectors could act like antennas, picking up the noise (common issue with other daps). So, I'm curious if it could have the same effect here, and if you hear this interference with different headphones/cables you tried.


Good suggestion.  Will try this tonight.  Two cables might be at fault - my 2.5 to 4.4 adapter cables or my USB...  but I had the very same problem with the 9038s gen2 and different cables.  Still worth an experiment


----------



## 8481

twister6 said:


> To those few people who do hear EMI effect when S1 is piggyback with their smartphone, what iems/headphones are you using and specifically, what cable? Different cables/connectors could act like antennas, picking up the noise (common issue with other daps). So, I'm curious if it could have the same effect here, and if you hear this interference with different headphones/cables you tried.



iPhone XS with FiR M5 here, I realised I get a lot of it when the line isn't great.


----------



## twister6

8481 said:


> iPhone XS with FiR M5 here, I realised I get a lot of it when the line isn't great.



Based on what I'm hearing, S1 with M5 (have it on high gain, volume at 17), it's probably one of the best M5 pair ups I heard, the synergy is just there!  Directly from LPGT, the bass is a little lifted, while from S1 it is lifted as well, but not as much.


----------



## musicday

twister6 said:


> Based on what I'm hearing, S1 with M5 (have it on high gain, volume at 17), it's probably one of the best M5 pair ups I heard, the synergy is just there!  Directly from LPGT, the bass is a little lifted, while from S1 it is lifted as well, but not as much.


S1 connected to the LPGT? I guess is just for fun right?


----------



## ldo77

jsmiller58 said:


> For those using the Lotoo S1 with cell phones and not hearing interference, I suggest an experiment...  turn off your WiFi and just use your cellular and see the difference.  I have an LG v30.  Streaming over WiFi no problem.  Turn off WiFi and rely just on cellular and I hear considerable interference.  Turn my WiFi back on and no interference.


I have exactly the same issue with my LG V30 and the 9138s gen2


----------



## twister6

musicday said:


> S1 connected to the LPGT? I guess is just for fun right?



for A/B comparison


----------



## soundblast75

EMI seems particularly bad on IPhones, it only happens when I change tracks on Tidal, then it stops, no matter if 4g or Wifi, so every time it accesses something online, such a shame, you’d think Lotoo would know better


----------



## AlexCBSN

soundblast75 said:


> EMI seems particularly bad on IPhones, it only happens when I change tracks on Tidal, then it stops, no matter if 4g or Wifi, so every time it accesses something online, such a shame, you’d think Lotoo would know better


Second you on that

I brought out the big guns, the noble cable by dunu NEVER brings interference... today I was trying, interference is directly into the dongle, not picked up by either of the cables (usb c or headphone) I already tried a shielded usb c and the noise persist, it sucks trul, trying to coordinate with romi if he can catch a s1 in stock so he mods it and send it to me, funny cause I really love the sound from this bundle, more powaa and proper shielding would make this unbeatable. Actually found my self craving more the sound signature of this than of my wm1a


----------



## thomaspf

Raketen said:


> Don't have the S1 but have any of the people with interference issues tried a cable with a ferrite choke?


A ferrite choke for which cable? The USB cable or the analog headphone cable? A ferrite choke on a cable that is supposed to transfer a high frequency digital data will just degrade the edges of the digital signal and there is no chance that cell phone interference will impact the integrity of the digital USB audio signal into something audible.

That leaves two other options. Either the USB cable is somehow transmitting the cell phone interference into the analog part of the S1 or more likely the headphone cable acts as an antenna and gets impacted by the cell phone signal. Someone wrote the interference gets worse with lower bars which is when the cell radio increases its output power.

Does the interference only occur with the S1 or also with other dongles?

Cheers

   Thomas


----------



## AlexCBSN

thomaspf said:


> A ferrite choke for which cable? The USB cable or the analog headphone cable? A ferrite choke on a cable that is supposed to transfer a high frequency digital data will just degrade the edges of the digital signal and there is no chance that cell phone interference will impact the integrity of the digital USB audio signal into something audible.
> 
> That leaves two other options. Either the USB cable is somehow transmitting the cell phone interference into the analog part of the S1 or more likely the headphone cable acts as an antenna and gets impacted by the cell phone signal. Someone wrote the interference gets worse with lower bars which is when the cell radio increases its output power.
> 
> ...


In my case it happens with “light” braided cables for dongles like the one bundled with the beam2 or the s1 one, though the s1 makes way more noise than the beam2, the sonata hd pro, ztella and fender dongles I own doesn’t add any interference from my cellphone.

The bars theory is interesting and has lots of logic, though I do appoint the noise into the dongle since I’ve been carrying it around and the amount of noise it produces its ridiculous, on 3.5 it’s less aggressive but I can tell it’s cause of the sensitivity of the output it self


----------



## jsmiller58

thomaspf said:


> A ferrite choke for which cable? The USB cable or the analog headphone cable? A ferrite choke on a cable that is supposed to transfer a high frequency digital data will just degrade the edges of the digital signal and there is no chance that cell phone interference will impact the integrity of the digital USB audio signal into something audible.
> 
> That leaves two other options. Either the USB cable is somehow transmitting the cell phone interference into the analog part of the S1 or more likely the headphone cable acts as an antenna and gets impacted by the cell phone signal. Someone wrote the interference gets worse with lower bars which is when the cell radio increases its output power.
> 
> ...


9038s gen2 has same problem


----------



## 8481

twister6 said:


> Based on what I'm hearing, S1 with M5 (have it on high gain, volume at 17), it's probably one of the best M5 pair ups I heard, the synergy is just there!  Directly from LPGT, the bass is a little lifted, while from S1 it is lifted as well, but not as much.



 I’m actually good with vol 1 on high gain lol. Yes I agree, I’m preferring combo this over my 1Z.


----------



## 8481

thomaspf said:


> A ferrite choke for which cable? The USB cable or the analog headphone cable? A ferrite choke on a cable that is supposed to transfer a high frequency digital data will just degrade the edges of the digital signal and there is no chance that cell phone interference will impact the integrity of the digital USB audio signal into something audible.
> 
> That leaves two other options. Either the USB cable is somehow transmitting the cell phone interference into the analog part of the S1 or more likely the headphone cable acts as an antenna and gets impacted by the cell phone signal. Someone wrote the interference gets worse with lower bars which is when the cell radio increases its output power.
> 
> ...



More tests, I tried using the S1 on the Sony NWA100 with hotspot from my iPhone. Interference occurs when my phone is next to it. When moved away it stops. I don’t think the cable has anything to do with it but rather the whole unit itself.

I also noticed that while using the S1 with my iPhone directly over it in hand the interference is especially bad. While hanging below it it reduces significantly.

I have contacted Romi for his mod and will be sending my uni over to him at the end of the month.


----------



## NCUS

I wonder if this has to do with a mix of factors, including the shielding in the S1, the shielding and sensitivity of headphones, the cable acting as an antenna, and the cell band the phone is using.  When GSM/TDMA was common in the U.S., moving a phone next to my computer speakers always created weird buzzing sounds.


----------



## AlexCBSN (Jun 8, 2020)

8481 said:


> More tests, I tried using the S1 on the Sony NWA100 with hotspot from my iPhone. Interference occurs when my phone is next to it. When moved away it stops. I don’t think the cable has anything to do with it but rather the whole unit itself.
> 
> I also noticed that while using the S1 with my iPhone directly over it in hand the interference is especially bad. While hanging below it it reduces significantly.
> 
> I have contacted Romi for his mod and will be sending my uni over to him at the end of the month.


I might send mine today, he was suggesting to buy a new one and send it to him so save in shipping, dude, this thing sold out so fast, and to be honest, I reaaaally love the sound, I reafirm: more powa and better shielding and this would be a no brainer. Soundstage is not as expansive but the texture in the mids and the height of the bass makes it a winner for me, im not using any ate-eq setting except when watching videos (and video games streams) then I go for movie and game, was trying dental but... no thanks, I’m a bit of a “no eq” freak

the only real competition it has is the 9038g3, though I can’t use it on my iPhone cause it needs more power,  I hope with the upcoming app I can tweak it for a more power friendly mode.


----------



## thomaspf

8481 said:


> More tests, I tried using the S1 on the Sony NWA100 with hotspot from my iPhone. Interference occurs when my phone is next to it. When moved away it stops. I don’t think the cable has anything to do with it but rather the whole unit itself.
> 
> I also noticed that while using the S1 with my iPhone directly over it in hand the interference is especially bad. While hanging below it it reduces significantly.
> 
> I have contacted Romi for his mod and will be sending my uni over to him at the end of the month.




Indeed...  GSM buzz


----------



## musicday

Absolutely loving this USB DAC and no interference using my LG V50 or my windows 7 laptop.
And it sounds much better than expected with both music and movies.


----------



## 8481

AlexCBSN said:


> I might send mine today, he was suggesting to buy a new one and send it to him so save in shipping, dude, this thing sold out so fast, and to be honest, I reaaaally love the sound, I reafirm: more powa and better shielding and this would be a no brainer. Soundstage is not as expansive but the texture in the mids and the height of the bass makes it a winner for me, im not using any ate-eq setting except when watching videos (and video games streams) then I go for movie and game, was trying dental but... no thanks, I’m a bit of a “no eq” freak
> 
> the only real competition it has is the 9038g3, though I can’t use it on my iPhone cause it needs more power,  I hope with the upcoming app I can tweak it for a more power friendly mode.



I live in Malaysia so shipping wouldn't be too bad. We share the same time zone and I wouldn't know what to do with an extra.


----------



## AlexCBSN (Jun 8, 2020)

I feel like spamming this thread

so, spent the morning with mine on 3.5, minimal noise, I was doing bread dough and cleaning my professional kitchen, carried the beam2 so when I go to dhl to deliver my lotoo I had a spare, 3 things: 

1)soundstage is way better on the beam2 but details ... that’s where the lotoo kicks ass, beside holographic feel is way better on the ltp

2) why do companies do the same mistakes, straight cables are not reliable, I’ve used mine for 3 or 4 days and it’s already busted(lighting cable) it’s dumb to think that if we use a dac we are going tobe carrying it around the whole time. Pockets! L shaped connectors would be the best solution such as the xduoo one (I already have one from my xd-05+)

3) I sent the ltp s1 and my obrav Cupid’s, according to romi, he can change the internal cables to silver. I never gave up on that little pair, always thought they had lots of potential, just like the tri i3, let’s seehow it goes, I modified a pair of Sony mdr z7 with internal silver cables and the change wasn’t night and day but you could tell the bass was tighter and the treble more controlled and defined.


----------



## musicday

AlexCBSN said:


> I feel like spamming this thread
> 
> so, spent the morning with mine on 3.5, minimal noise, I was doing bread dough and cleaning my professional kitchen, carried the beam2 so when I go to dhl to deliver my lotoo I had a spare, 3 things:
> 
> ...


Can you specify exactly how much it cost to have the S1 modified and what exactly they are doing at Romi? Many thanks.


----------



## AlexCBSN

musicday said:


> Can you specify exactly how much it cost to have the S1 modified and what exactly they are doing at Romi? Many thanks.



800hkd

Rewiring of 4.4 and 3.5 outputs, increment in the current output. Steady power supply for the dac and a block to reduce noise. Still I wrote to him and if he comes with something else, he’s got my full consent as long as it sounds as the ltp gold touch =P 

The dude mods wm1z to the point of crazy mods that are voodoo or else ask @Vitaly2017  tiger ears, I fully trust him


----------



## JimJim

8481 said:


> I live in Malaysia so shipping wouldn't be too bad. We share the same time zone and I wouldn't know what to do with an extra.



You got it from which store?


----------



## JimJim

AlexCBSN said:


> 800hkd
> 
> Rewiring of 4.4 and 3.5 outputs, increment in the current output. Steady power supply for the dac and a block to reduce noise. Still I wrote to him and if he comes with something else, he’s got my full consent as long as it sounds as the ltp gold touch =P
> 
> The dude mods wm1z to the point of crazy mods that are voodoo or else ask @Vitaly2017  tiger ears, I fully trust him



😳😱


----------



## 8481

JimJim said:


> You got it from which store?



Jaben SG.


----------



## JimJim

Will this reduce the noise


----------



## 8481

JimJim said:


> Will this reduce the noise



I think using that defeats the purpose of its portability


----------



## JimJim

8481 said:


> I think using that defeats the purpose of its portability



🤭 yday I discussed with 1 HK user. It seem does helps


----------



## AlexCBSN

JimJim said:


> 🤭 yday I discussed with 1 HK user. It seem does helps


ill try the first option if i can get my hands on some faraday cloth or tape.

so asked romi whats going to be done to mine, here's the list

a) shielding on S1
b) add a capacitor (i guess for the steady current for the DAC)
c) change some circuit (i want to think for the current change)
d) change the current akm dac to 4499 (... ok that one NOT, we wish we had such current power)


one thing that im thinking about the yinlvmey is that for the mobile purpose that i want, it wont have enough power to actually get all the juice out of the 4497 dac, i use this dongles mainly for street/ work use with my phone, for home i got daps and a desktop setup capable of powering all my other headphones, i was looking at the ifi hipdac and actually was about to just go for it, but i need less bulk in my pockets, so i think i can skip that option already

we'll let you know as soon as i get mine back


----------



## 8481

JimJim said:


> 🤭 yday I discussed with 1 HK user. It seem does helps



Ah my b, thought it was the whole plug thing for some reason. Looks promising,


----------



## AlexCBSN (Jun 10, 2020)

So, just a quick heads up, xduoo lightning to usb c cable is really bad, it doesn’t work with any of my dongles and I think it fried my hilidac beam2, bought 3 of those cables (2 for me since I always end up replacing em cause of work and one for  a friend) 2 of em I opened, both made this super weird static noise with the hilidac, one actually sort of made noise but it wasn’t any clear, just buzzing and suddenly plop, done! The wm1a to female usb cable they sell works perfectly... still, damn, I’m out of dacs while my s1 is at Romis, hell, I’m glad it didn’t affected my phone

I tried connecting the sonata hd pro and even though it does sound (I used a usb c to micro usb connector)  but the sound was intermittent


----------



## iFi audio

AlexCBSN said:


> i was looking at the ifi hipdac and actually was about to just go for it



Well, as a very compact flask alike product, it takes less space than any other portable device we do.


----------



## AlexCBSN

iFi audio said:


> Well, as a very compact flask alike product, it takes less space than any other portable device we do.


And I heard so many good comments, will get the xdsd in the future, a friend of mine swears for it and I really liked what I heard


----------



## chortya

Does anybody know a good source to buy S1 in Europe?


----------



## 8481

Btw guys, the Pelican 1010 case fits the S1 and IEMs perfectly.


----------



## JulienFrance

chortya said:


> Does anybody know a good source to buy S1 in Europe?


you can ask here


----------



## chortya

JulienFrance said:


> you can ask here


Thanks so much. Just ordered.


----------



## vwong99

Hello

Anyone tried using aftermarket cable (Lighting to USB-C, not CCK with USB-A) with S1?

I have one USB-C version reserved as waiting for the IOS version would be like ages. And heard hearsay that other cables except the ones from Lotoo is not compatible.

Thanks in advance of any feedbacks/suggestions.


----------



## iFi audio

AlexCBSN said:


> And I heard so many good comments, will get the xdsd in the future, a friend of mine swears for it and I really liked what I heard



Thanks! xDSD is above the hip-dac on sound quality, plus it's wireless and we put a lot of effort to make its BT to sound good.


----------



## musicday (Jun 12, 2020)

Blon BL03 is great for watching movies and isvery cheap and comfortable.Can't wait to try it in balanced mode.


----------



## bflat

vwong99 said:


> Hello
> 
> Anyone tried using aftermarket cable (Lighting to USB-C, not CCK with USB-A) with S1?
> 
> ...



I tried the Apple OEM Lightning to USB-C cable and it does not work with the S1. The Lotoo cable only seems to work on the S1 and will not charge my iPhone. Given these results, it does appear that the Lotoo cable is specific to the S1 and vice a versa.


----------



## darkxvx

bflat said:


> I tried the Apple OEM Lightning to USB-C cable and it does not work with the S1. The Lotoo cable only seems to work on the S1 and will not charge my iPhone. Given these results, it does appear that the Lotoo cable is specific to the S1 and vice a versa.



I believe the Apple OEM lightning to USB-C is not an OTG adapter (or combined Apple camera dongle cable). The Lotoo one is.


----------



## bflat

darkxvx said:


> I believe the Apple OEM lightning to USB-C is not an OTG adapter (or combined Apple camera dongle cable). The Lotoo one is.



I'm not sure it's an OTG issue because USB-C spec has built in OTG. Have no idea on Lightning end though. What is clear to me is that Lotoo cable does not provide power to my iPhone and the Apple OEM cable does provide any power to the S1. It seems power can only go in one direction on the Lightning end, and dictated by how the cable is configured. I really hope Lotoo cable is fully MFi certified so it doesn't mysteriously stop working with an iOS firmware update.


----------



## darkxvx

bflat said:


> I'm not sure it's an OTG issue because USB-C spec has built in OTG. Have no idea on Lightning end though. What is clear to me is that Lotoo cable does not provide power to my iPhone and the Apple OEM cable does provide any power to the S1. It seems power can only go in one direction on the Lightning end, and dictated by how the cable is configured. I really hope Lotoo cable is fully MFi certified so it doesn't mysteriously stop working with an iOS firmware update.



The camera adapter (USB-A) to lightning also doesn’t charge iOS devices. I think Lotoo basically reimplemented that adapter and a USB cable into one cable. Lightning also isn’t USB-C. This seems to be working as intended. To my knowledge for USB* to lighting, they don’t support the whole spec of USB-C (that’s why faster data transfers aren’t supported). The only difference between the USB-A to lightning and USB-C to lightening that Apple makes is faster charging for the latter.


----------



## AlexCBSN

Tried with other 3 cables (hilidac usb c to usb a through camera dongle, usb c to usb c with usb a adapter to dongle and usb c to usb c to my iPad, all of em work, as long as you have the dongle or the cable is otg there’s no problem (apple usb c to lightning it’s not otg)


----------



## vwong99

vwong99 said:


> Hello
> 
> Anyone tried using aftermarket cable (Lighting to USB-C, not CCK with USB-A) with S1?
> 
> ...


Thank you All for the kind clarification and suggestions to the above question.


----------



## JimJim

Oh ya did anyone try this before and after while using Lotoo Paw S1? 
I remember I saw a owner using on his Paw S1.


----------



## chortya

JimJim said:


> Oh ya did anyone try this before and after while using Lotoo Paw S1?
> I remember I saw a owner using on his Paw S1.


LOL, don't forget to sprinkle 2 drops of snake oil and dance in 3 circles around your phone after connecting the DAC. Adds some stage and bass becomes better.


----------



## JimJim

chortya said:


> LOL, don't forget to sprinkle 2 drops of snake oil and dance in 3 circles around your phone after connecting the DAC. Adds some stage and bass becomes better.




🤣🤣🤣. 
Bcoz i hear some ppls complaints bout "noise" issue while using Lotoo Paw S1 with Data mode or streaming thru 4G/5G. 
Maybe @twister6 can solve my questions.


----------



## hakunamakaka

And all I have left with is to read this thread about how good S1 is or how much noise it creates....Jaded audio haven’t even shipped it after 3 weeks ! They should update their website as out of stock instead of selling stuff that they don’t have. If nothing changes next week I’m gonna push them for a refund, don’t care anymore and if  someone wants to sell their noisy S1, let me know


----------



## WayneWoondirts

Headfonia takes a first look at he PAW S1 before their full review.
https://www.headfonia.com/first-look-lotoo-paw-s1/


----------



## Sound Eq

WayneWoondirts said:


> Headfonia takes a first look at he PAW S1 before their full review.
> https://www.headfonia.com/first-look-lotoo-paw-s1/


what draw my attention in this review is the tidal app, that the sound is flat, is that the consensus that tidal app and s1 do not work well, that would be a big bummer for me as I rely totally on tidal


----------



## chortya

Sound Eq said:


> what draw my attention in this review is the tidal app, that the sound is flat, is that the consensus that tidal app and s1 do not work well, that would be a big bummer for me as I rely totally on tidal


Thought same. Did they try alternative player with Tidal support (USB Audio Player PRO).


----------



## vwong99

Sound Eq said:


> what draw my attention in this review is the tidal app, that the sound is flat, is that the consensus that tidal app and s1 do not work well, that would be a big bummer for me as I rely totally on tidal


I think I have asked this question regarding Tidal firmware update at FB. And it’s stated that there will be this addition as the Lotoo is working on it.
Like you, am also heavily relying on Tidal and if it doesn’t support MQA, it’s really a bummer.


----------



## twister6

We will have to wait for the official announcement and fw update, but based on what I heard, MQA hardware certification of S1 is in a near future


----------



## WayneWoondirts

chortya said:


> Thought same. Did they try alternative player with Tidal support (USB Audio Player PRO).



Not UAP PRO, but Hiby Music playing the same album and Tidal implemented in Roon on a laptop. Both sound much better than with the Android Tidal App. Must be the resampling process of the phone causing the sound to go down in quality.


----------



## chortya

Ok, so UAP Pro will potentially solve this on the phone. My dongle arrives today! Will compare with Sony ZX507 DAP and IFI ZEN DAC.


----------



## hakunamakaka

I’m really impressed with jaben audio, once they got s1 re-stocket, they are shipping it via fedex and my unit will arrive in 3 days, via sgp to europe route, wow


----------



## chortya

Test driving S1 with UAP Pro on Samsung S20 Ultra and it sounds damn good with Sony Z1R (balanced stock cable). From initial impression on par with ZX507, but will do more extensive listening.

MQA unfolding seems to work fine after I have enabled bit-perfect in the app settings. Both app and dongle show 96khz.


----------



## vwong99

chortya said:


> Test driving S1 with UAP Pro on Samsung S20 Ultra and it sounds damn good with Sony Z1R (balanced stock cable). From initial impression on par with ZX507, but will do more extensive listening.
> 
> MQA unfolding seems to work fine after I have enabled bit-perfect in the app settings. Both app and dongle show 96khz.


That’s good news. Have you try hearing a Magnificat track, which is way above 96Khz? Does the S1 show the exact bit rate per the MQA file?
Thanks!


----------



## chortya (Jun 16, 2020)

vwong99 said:


> That’s good news. Have you try hearing a Magnificat track, which is way above 96Khz? Does the S1 show the exact bit rate per the MQA file?
> Thanks!


Hm, for this Album S1 only shows 88,2kHz and MQA indicator in the app is blue.

DSD128 playback using DoP setting from SMB share.


----------



## vwong99

chortya said:


> Hm, for this Album S1 only shows 88,2kHz and MQA indicator in the app is blue.


Thanks, mate. That’s really a BIG help and confirmation that S1 needs to be a MQA enabled renderer to unfold this kinda tracks/files.
Hopefully Lotoo will release an update to say there are now a certified MQA renderer. Am holding myself back now hard to get the AQ DFB.


----------



## musicday (Jun 16, 2020)

vwong99 said:


> Thanks, mate. That’s really a BIG help and confirmation that S1 needs to be a MQA enabled renderer to unfold this kinda tracks/files.
> Hopefully Lotoo will release an update to say there are now a certified MQA renderer. Am holding myself back now hard to get the AQ DFB.


Has been mentioned few times before that Lotoo will release a firmware to slow MQA rendering. Just wait a bit longer, I am sure will be worth it.


----------



## chortya

Ok, after reading some other comments it's at least confirmed that I am not crazy because of liking this dongle in combination with Z1R better then any other DAP I have owned (WM1A and ZX507 are the most recent).

I am using now connected to Samsung S6 tablet but can confirm that using it with the phone I had interference when the dongle moved to the back of the phone.

Whould actually something like a case with phone and dongle holders and shielding between help? I am expecting my new 3D printer to arrive soon and will try to design something simple.
Alternatively a leather case with 2 sides/pockets would be nice.


----------



## drbluenewmexico (Jun 16, 2020)

[

Fantastic gear! Needed about
50 hrs burn in to sound right
Now tone is spot on and musical. Far better than other
Dongle devices I have. Only con is that dynamic range limited for full size headphones but adding pocket amp to chain creates studio quality in my pocket
Bravo! IEMs just rock with it alone...highly recommended  UAP usb app in bit perfect seems to give the best sound on Tidal.  unfolding of MQA will be nice upgrade.
the S1 is damn musical!!!! Thanks to MusicTech.com for excellent customer service, speedy delivery!!!


----------



## vwong99

chortya said:


> Ok, after reading some other comments it's at least confirmed that I am not crazy because of liking this dongle in combination with Z1R better then any other DAP I have owned (WM1A and ZX507 are the most recent).
> 
> I am using now connected to Samsung S6 tablet but can confirm that using it with the phone I had interference when the dongle moved to the back of the phone.
> 
> ...


Finally, I have pulled the trigger late last night for the S1, for the USB-C version. And am happy to hear from the seller that it has packed this morning and waiting for courier pickup. Yay!
As I have extra iPhone 6S and not using it to pick up calls/messages, solely for the S1 with loads of songs from my collection and from Tidal, I would use it to connect the S1 with the USB 3 kit and stack it with those silicon double sided tape or Velcro and will put the phone on airplane mode when during playback.
Hope this is lessen, if not eliminate, the interence from moving the dongle/RF.


----------



## Jawis

drbluenewmexico said:


> [
> 
> the S1 is damn musical!!!!



Have to agree about the musicality. I only went to demo one and ended up coming home with it. 
Very musical, open and layered. It's wonderful for on the go music. 
Looking forward to the MQA update. 

I have always preferred the UAPpro Tidal over the Tidal app. I always feel that there is a V shaped sound signature built into the Tidal app. 

I think I find the same experience when using with S1. 

I'm enjoying my local music with S1 through PowerAmp, UAPpro and Fiio Music Player.


----------



## vwong99

Jawis said:


> Have to agree about the musicality. I only went to demo one and ended up coming home with it.
> Very musical, open and layered. It's wonderful for on the go music.
> Looking forward to the MQA update.
> 
> ...


I wasn't patient enough to wait for the courier to pick up and deliver to me, so I went straight to the seller to pick up the item. Am unboxing it now as I am typing here.


----------



## chortya

Jawis said:


> Have to agree about the musicality. I only went to demo one and ended up coming home with it.
> Very musical, open and layered. It's wonderful for on the go music.
> Looking forward to the MQA update.
> 
> ...


Do you hear any difference between the apps? Actually the should not be any without DSP but would be still interesting to know.
I also like Neutron for SMB share playback.


----------



## rustyvinyl

How do find out which version of firmware is installed on S1?  Thanks.


----------



## vwong99

Initial impression of the S1....Impressive!

Very melodic, reasonable soundstage (just nice for my ears) and punchy bass (am a basshead ).
Unsure whether analytical is a correct term to add in as it does pick up some external sounds like flipping of page/adjustments of instruments or sort of when hearing Yiruma's Golden Songs with KIWA Live (MQA) from Tidal.

Besides, am hearing from local files stored in my iPhone via Onkyo HF player. Sample rate is accurate per the file but I do noticed the bit depth is always at 32b although is playing CD quality files and 24/96Khz file.

Anyone came across this? Or only mine has this?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


----------



## vwong99

rustyvinyl said:


> How do find out which version of firmware is installed on S1?  Thanks.


Hold the 'Fn' button and connect to desktop/laptop. You will be able to see the version at the left top corner of the screen and 'Waiting' at the middle of the screen.


----------



## rustyvinyl

vwong99 said:


> Hold the 'Fn' button and connect to desktop/laptop. You will be able to see the version at the left top corner of the screen and 'Waiting' at the middle of the screen.



Thanks much!   
Just got mine, intend to pair it with the small Fiio M6.


----------



## Jawis

chortya said:


> Do you hear any difference between the apps? Actually the should not be any without DSP but would be still interesting to know.
> I also like Neutron for SMB share playback.



I perceive a difference between apps. I'm referring to the use of the USB dacs with my Note10+ smartphone here. 
Fiio music seems to give me a rich, dynamic sound. With Android, I usually do not let Fiio app access my USB DACs directly as I always have issues with it so it will use the default Android drivers.
UAPpro sounds lighter with a more balanced detailed sound. I generally will let UAPpro connect directly to the USB DACs as it works flawlessly when I do. I get access to the 96khz driver, but I do also listen in Bitperfect mode as well.  I much prefer the Tidal sound from this app rather than the Tidal app because it has a nicer balanced sound to it.
PowerAMP seems more simlar to UAPpro  , but I appear to get a little more hiss from it. I use their specific Hi-Res audio driver. I've had PowerAmp from day one. I think it was the first Android music amp I ever bought. I generally don't EQ, but sometimes if I have an urge to tinker I use PowerAmp as I like their way of saving the headphone EQ profiles. 

I guess each app have a little difference with their sound signatures because they each connect to my DACs in slightly different ways. 

The S1 is a very competent little beast. All the apps sound great through it. When I first demoed it I was struck by the wide sound-stage and the wonderfully layered sound. Reminds me very much of my Ibasso DX160. I'm thinking perhaps a warmer sound signature helps the separation of the higher and the lower frequencies. I also have the BTR5 and when I USB it to the phone I do get a wonderful rich sound from it, but I don't feel that I get the same layered depth to it.


----------



## thesheik137

Just an fyi for people with the same gear/apps:

I have noticed a weird bug with Onkyo HF player on Android. Initially it recognizes the S1 after turning on OTG mode and works fine, but often it will crash. This doesn't happen on any other music apps (tidal or gpm). 

Also when using my Macbook (USB A), I get an intermittent disconnect/reconnect at random when running directly to the laptop. But when I use a USB hub (not powered) there is no such issue.


----------



## vwong99

thesheik137 said:


> Just an fyi for people with the same gear/apps:
> 
> I have noticed a weird bug with Onkyo HF player on Android. Initially it recognizes the S1 after turning on OTG mode and works fine, but often it will crash. This doesn't happen on any other music apps (tidal or gpm).
> 
> Also when using my Macbook (USB A), I get an intermittent disconnect/reconnect at random when running directly to the laptop. But when I use a USB hub (not powered) there is no such issue.


I’ve been burning in the S1 yesterday from IOS via Onkyo HF and it’s working fine.
But something very very strange happened to my S1, which is paving the path for me to return the unit. 
I have tested out 3 balanced ended cable (2 are direct ended while the other is using a 2.5 female to 4.4 male adapter) with the S1, and 1 of the direct ended cable has no sound coming out of the S1 balanced port. Tried plugging it into iFi Hip DAC balanced port, and it’s working fine. It only came have sound coming from the S1 when I plugged in to the unbalanced port using a converter. 
I don’t mind the other 2 cables have issues, but to my newly purchased IE80s and upgraded Null Audio cable (which kinda be my endgame IEM and daily use item), that really is a big bummer for me. 
CRIESSSS!!


----------



## HiFlight

rustyvinyl said:


> Thanks much!
> Just got mine, intend to pair it with the small Fiio M6.


i hate to rain on your parade, but my M6 does not play at all when paired with the S1.  The S1 powers on but no sound from any of my installed players.  For the most part, my M6 seems to be unresponsive to inputs as well.  I would appreciate hearing back whether you experience the same issues.


----------



## thesheik137

vwong99 said:


> I’ve been burning in the S1 yesterday from IOS via Onkyo HF and it’s working fine.
> But something very very strange happened to my S1, which is paving the path for me to return the unit.
> I have tested out 3 balanced ended cable (2 are direct ended while the other is using a 2.5 female to 4.4 male adapter) with the S1, and 1 of the direct ended cable has no sound coming out of the S1 balanced port. Tried plugging it into iFi Hip DAC balanced port, and it’s working fine. It only came have sound coming from the S1 when I plugged in to the unbalanced port using a converter.
> I don’t mind the other 2 cables have issues, but to my newly purchased IE80s and upgraded Null Audio cable (which kinda be my endgame IEM and daily use item), that really is a big bummer for me.
> CRIESSSS!!



When using the S1 with 4.4 cables/adapters when it was new, I noticed the 4.4mm port was very tight. Sometimes I didn't get any sound because the connectors were not fully inserted, like .1mm not inserted. So try using some extra force when inserting 4.4mm connections into the new S1. After a couple insertions/removals the 4.4mm port loosened up slightly.


----------



## rustyvinyl

HiFlight said:


> i hate to rain on your parade, but my M6 does not play at all when paired with the S1.  The S1 powers on but no sound from any of my installed players.  For the most part, my M6 seems to be unresponsive to inputs as well.  I would appreciate hearing back whether you experience the same issues.



Hi. It worked on my M6. Tried Hiby, Spotify and Tidal. 
But playing Tidal master will stutter  maybe M6 didn't have enough juice.


----------



## rustyvinyl

thesheik137 said:


> When using the S1 with 4.4 cables/adapters when it was new, I noticed the 4.4mm port was very tight. Sometimes I didn't get any sound because the connectors were not fully inserted, like .1mm not inserted. So try using some extra force when inserting 4.4mm connections into the new S1. After a couple insertions/removals the 4.4mm port loosened up slightly.


Yes I encountered the same.


----------



## chaotic_angel

JohnPham said:


> So I got the Lotoo S1 yesterday and just received the iFi Hip DAC about an hour ago. I have been A/B'ing the two units for about half an hour now with my pair of Final Audio B3 IEM's which are a relatively neutral set of IEM's out of the 4.4 balanced output on both DAC's.
> 
> My initial impressions of the Lotoo S1 is that it is very neutral sounding in general and definitely seems more reference in its presentation. There is no emphasis on any region of the sound signature and everything is presented as is according to the music. I have heard from others who have posted on this thread previously that the "dental" EQ setting improved on the detail presentation of the S1 which I also found to be true. The dental EQ does make the S1 sound a little but more clear and airy in its presentation. The S1 is very clean sounding and I would recommend the S1 for those that are looking for a cleaner/reference sound. Some things I felt the S1 was a little lacking in was how it affected instrument decay and soundstage. However, I believe this is due to do with the power output of the S1 more than anything. My Final B3's are relatively inefficient when it comes to the power needed. The 120 mW power output out of the balanced connection on the S1 does seems a little inadequate for my Final B3's. With insufficient power, my IEM's exhibit a smaller soundstage. Through the S1, the soundstage was smaller and this lead to music being more "in your face" from the instruments to the vocals. Some might like this presentation, but for me personally I wished there was more space in the soundstage. Instrument decay seemed to be a little shorter than on the iFi Hip DAC.
> 
> ...



Hello, Thank you for impression, can you please  provide update any sound differences after hours of usage? and which one have lowest noise floor in sensitive iems?


----------



## HiFlight

rustyvinyl said:


> Hi. It worked on my M6. Tried Hiby, Spotify and Tidal.
> But playing Tidal master will stutter  maybe M6 didn't have enough juice.


Thanks...I must just have a wonky M6!


----------



## vwong99

rustyvinyl said:


> Yes I encountered the same.


Thanks @rustyvinyl and @thesheik137 for the kind inputs. I have unplugged and re-inserted to the allowed length numerous times but to no avail. Anyway I have returned to exchange to another item. And when I clarified the situation to the seller, he found rather strange.


----------



## HiFlight

rustyvinyl said:


> Hi. It worked on my M6. Tried Hiby, Spotify and Tidal.
> But playing Tidal master will stutter  maybe M6 didn't have enough juice.


i think my issue was due to running short on memory.  When I freed up about 1 gb on my sd card and transferred storage to it instead of the internal memory,  it started working with the S1.


----------



## JohnPham

chaotic_angel said:


> Hello, Thank you for impression, can you please  provide update any sound differences after hours of usage? and which one have lowest noise floor in sensitive iems?


So I have listened to both the S1 and the Hip DAC for about a week or two now and I have some more thoughts about the two. The Hip DAC has an audible noise floor when using with sensitive IEM's out of the balanced 4.4. From what I've heard, this can be mitigated using the 3.5 mm output which is also balanced apparently but I don't have a 3.5 balanced cable to check. My initial impressions about the sound from both still stand as representative of the two units although I would say the differences are more slight compared to my initial impressions. The S1 is slightly more neutral and clear while the hip dac is slightly more warm and lush. I have found myself using the S1 more often though since it does not have to be charged and is way more convenient to use since you don't have to worry about battery life. My favorite part of the Hip DAC is the xBass boost which works pretty well in adding bass to neutral/bass light headphones.


----------



## HiFlight

JohnPham said:


> So I have listened to both the S1 and the Hip DAC for about a week or two now and I have some more thoughts about the two. The Hip DAC has an audible noise floor when using with sensitive IEM's out of the balanced 4.4. From what I've heard, this can be mitigated using the 3.5 mm output which is also balanced apparently but I don't have a 3.5 balanced cable to check. My initial impressions about the sound from both still stand as representative of the two units although I would say the differences are more slight compared to my initial impressions. The S1 is slightly more neutral and clear while the hip dac is slightly more warm and lush. I have found myself using the S1 more often though since it does not have to be charged and is way more convenient to use since you don't have to worry about battery life. My favorite part of the Hip DAC is the xBass boost which works pretty well in adding bass to neutral/bass light headphones.


Is the Full-Bass EQ preset on the S1 anywhere comparable to the xBass on the Hip?


----------



## Palash

*Lotoo PAW S1 UNBOXING and Hands-on*


----------



## jsmiller58

Any news - or rumors - about MQA support coming to the S1?


----------



## musicday

jsmiller58 said:


> Any news - or rumors - about MQA support coming to the S1?


Rumors yes, but no news. Probably to get it certified takes time.


----------



## rustyvinyl

expected.... Interferences/noises using with note8 + 4.4 + stock cable. 
Changed stock cable to Fiio CL06, the same.


----------



## JimJim

rustyvinyl said:


> expected.... Interferences/noises using with note8 + 4.4 + stock cable.
> Changed stock cable to Fiio CL06, the same.



Try longer cable.


----------



## JimJim

Finally arrived mine.


----------



## AlexCBSN

So, after some troubles with fedex, here it is, back home. What changed? better soundstage (a bit more open), sub bass has better presence and weight, a bit more power, LESS INTERFERENCE! (It did made a change)  if I already loved this little fella, now I’m totally in love of it. More impressions soon


----------



## thatonenoob

The long and short of the interference issue is as follows:

Poor internal shielding. Putting it so close to the phone (maybe next to the antenna) results in this.
Circuitry is not fully balanced.  In theory interference picked up should cancel in a fully diff circuit, but if we use a single-ended to differential conversion circuit as is common in lower power devices, this is not the case.
Context: I'm an electrical engineer.


----------



## jsmiller58

thatonenoob said:


> The long and short of the interference issue is as follows:
> 
> Poor internal shielding. Putting it so close to the phone (maybe next to the antenna) results in this.
> Circuitry is not fully balanced.  In theory interference picked up should cancel in a fully diff circuit, but if we use a single-ended to differential conversion circuit as is common in lower power devices, this is not the case.
> Context: I'm an electrical engineer.


I have found dongles like the S1 and the 9038s gen2 to be impacted by cellular signals, but not WiFi...  so I cannot use either with my phone, but I can use them with my DAP, but I really don’t want to carry my DAP when I have my phone (I use my DAP around the house)...  I think I may have to rethink the whole dongle thing, at least as long as I continue to use an LG phone.  But, will have to be more discerning in my purchases if I go to a phone without a headphone jack...


----------



## JimJim (Jun 21, 2020)

Touchwood so far mine didn't encounter that issue while using on phone. Even using fb, youtube, xiami. Maybe I use DDhifi cable tco5. Only slightly noise while using original cable come with when there no music or apps running


----------



## rustyvinyl

Me too sometimes don't want to carry DAP, so just dongle and phone. 
Even if S1 is not placed at the back of my phone, there will be interference when I'm commuting, ie at places where there are lots of cellular data transmission.


----------



## thomaspf

vwong99 said:


> Initial impression of the S1....Impressive!
> 
> Very melodic, reasonable soundstage (just nice for my ears) and punchy bass (am a basshead ).
> Unsure whether analytical is a correct term to add in as it does pick up some external sounds like flipping of page/adjustments of instruments or sort of when hearing Yiruma's Golden Songs with KIWA Live (MQA) from Tidal.
> ...


As discussed before on this thread  the bit depth is a function of what the payer software sends to the DAC not necessarily the format of the source file. It appear the Onkyo player is sending 16 bit and 24 bit source material in the most significant bits of 32 bit samples. This is for most use case the best possible behavior.


----------



## Damz87 (Jun 21, 2020)

S1 arrived today  Great sound from this little device!

So far, I haven't detected any interference noise when connected to my iPhone. However I can hear an ever so slight hiss with my Solaris 2020 IEM, but its really faint. Lower hiss than my ZX507 DAP. I thought it might be my iPhone causing the noise but I tested it running off a PC, iPad and ZX507 and it was the same. No big deal, its barely noticeable.

It feels sturdy and very well built. Love the design. Super easy to use. Tried some of the effects and liked ‘Headphones’ probably the best, but I prefer to keep it on 'None' for my OCD's sake.

High gain is potent. With the Solaris, even volume 1 is too loud for me lol...

Very happy with the purchase. I was close to cancelling my order after reading all the reports of interference noise, but so far so good and it's handy to use 4.4mm cables with my phone/iPad and Tidal


----------



## BBson

AlexCBSN said:


> So, after some troubles with fedex, here it is, back home. What changed? better soundstage (a bit more open), sub bass has better presence and weight, a bit more power, LESS INTERFERENCE! (It did made a change)  if I already loved this little fella, now I’m totally in love of it. More impressions soon



I just back from Romi place and completed the mod by him , all I can say is totally worth it. I just tested 5mins and I decided to do it. The bass is hugh different than before, the vocal and instruments is more separate now. I really like it and enjoy very very much. I really recommend it.
Talked and watched to Romi for the whole process, his skills is really good and he is a very nice guy. Before modification dental was my favorite EQ, but after modification Headphone is my favorite EQ, I am using rei penta with 4.4 jack , the vocal is so stunning. Really hard to explain thru words, no regret at all


----------



## AlexCBSN

BBson said:


> I just back from Romi place and completed the mod by him , all I can say is totally worth it. I just tested 5mins and I decided to do it. The bass is hugh different than before, the vocal and instruments is more separate now. I really like it and enjoy very very much. I really recommend it.
> Talked and watched to Romi for the whole process, his skills is really good and he is a very nice guy. Before modification dental was my favorite EQ, but after modification Headphone is my favorite EQ, I am using rei penta with 4.4 jack , the vocal is so stunning. Really hard to explain thru words, no regret at all



same thing, i just dont use eq since im more of a "let the music talk" guy but daaamn, as you, i found the bass to be astonishing, wm1a users are going to kill me, but i feel this little dongle is on par in sound quality, details and bass. funnily both suffer from "smallish soundstage" syndrome but its totally compensated by the astonishing quality. cannot wait for the mqa and if the guys from lotoo could give us some sort of eq personalization, i just would love to be able to tame a 2khz peak i get from my 2go headphones (imr r1z) but even that i can let pass, right now listening to 



as any other brand, if lotoo sees future on this device, in a year we'll see a follow up with some improvements, which would be very welcome in the future, for a first design, i think they hit it out of the park. more with Romi's mod


----------



## hakunamakaka

AlexCBSN said:


> same thing, i just dont use eq since im more of a "let the music talk" guy but daaamn, as you, i found the bass to be astonishing, wm1a users are going to kill me, but i feel this little dongle is on par in sound quality, details and bass. funnily both suffer from "smallish soundstage" syndrome but its totally compensated by the astonishing quality. cannot wait for the mqa and if the guys from lotoo could give us some sort of eq personalization, i just would love to be able to tame a 2khz peak i get from my 2go headphones (imr r1z) but even that i can let pass, right now listening to
> 
> 
> 
> as any other brand, if lotoo sees future on this device, in a year we'll see a follow up with some improvements, which would be very welcome in the future, for a first design, i think they hit it out of the park. more with Romi's mod






Is there a manual somewhere regards that Romi’s mode ? I don’t feel need to spend same amount of money and re-ship it back to asia .. :/


----------



## AlexCBSN

hakunamakaka said:


> Is there a manual somewhere regards that Romi’s mode ? I don’t feel need to spend same amount of money and re-ship it back to asia .. :/


You can mail him or contact him through fb, IMO it was worth it every penny


----------



## musicday

BBson said:


> I just back from Romi place and completed the mod by him , all I can say is totally worth it. I just tested 5mins and I decided to do it. The bass is hugh different than before, the vocal and instruments is more separate now. I really like it and enjoy very very much. I really recommend it.
> Talked and watched to Romi for the whole process, his skills is really good and he is a very nice guy. Before modification dental was my favorite EQ, but after modification Headphone is my favorite EQ, I am using rei penta with 4.4 jack , the vocal is so stunning. Really hard to explain thru words, no regret at all


Can he send you pictures of the internal components before and after the modification so we can all have an idea, and may go forward with his service.
Can you ask him? Cheers.


----------



## JimJim (Jun 22, 2020)

https://m.gamer.com.tw/forum/C.php?bsn=60535&page=&snA=16150&last=

Ver.1.1 🤔 will there 1.2 ver.


----------



## ade_hall

Will any lightning to usb-c cable work for iPhone?


----------



## JimJim

ade_hall said:


> Will any lightning to usb-c cable work for iPhone?


MFI certified cable is better


----------



## ade_hall

JimJim said:


> MFI certified cable is better


Got a link to a suitable cable?


----------



## HuoYuanJia

Hey guys, I joined the PAW S1 club. 🙂 That means less playtime for my Chord Mojo and Hugo 2. And probably none anymore for my Ikko Zerda dongle...
The form factor is so awesome! I love holding it in my hand and it's just light enough to have it "dongle" around without having to worry about durability.

Sound quality so far is excellent. I am using low gain with IEM. I don't notice any hiss with my CA Solaris, so Lotoo passed that hurdle. I don't notice any strong change in tonality due to high output impedance either, but I rather have someone else confirm and measure that claim.

Are the presets EQ only? Or do they have some kind of other DSP implementation, like phase filters, crossfeed, etc. If they are EQ only, I can measure them and extract the curves if anyone is interested. But I want to make sure that I am not overlooking anything first.

I have updated to FW 1.0.0.7 but I can't find the FW change log. What has changed?


----------



## cwtan1212

hakunamakaka said:


> Is there a manual somewhere regards that Romi’s mode ? I don’t feel need to spend same amount of money and re-ship it back to asia .. :/


I thought about the shipping too. That's why I asked Romi to buy for me in HK (to save the shipping to HK), mod it and send the whole thing to me. Got it today and very happy with it.


----------



## musicday

HuoYuanJia said:


> Hey guys, I joined the PAW S1 club. 🙂 That means less playtime for my Chord Mojo and Hugo 2. And probably none anymore for my Ikko Zerda dongle...
> The form factor is so awesome! I love holding it in my hand and it's just light enough to have it "dongle" around without having to worry about durability.
> 
> Sound quality so far is excellent. I am using low gain with IEM. I don't notice any hiss with my CA Solaris, so Lotoo passed that hurdle. I don't notice any strong change in tonality due to high output impedance either, but I rather have someone else confirm and measure that claim.
> ...


Latest firmware :

PAW S1 Firmware 1.0.0.6 (2020-05-28)

Major updates:


New function: Addition of USB Audio Class 1.0 (UAC1) mode
It operates in USB Audio Class 1.0 mode by connecting the USB cable while pressing the + button. You can use PAW S1 on Windows before Windows 10 (1703), Android terminals, game consoles, etc. that only support USB Audio Class 1.0.
In USB Audio Class 1.0 mode, the supported format is 16bit/48kHz


----------



## hakunamakaka

cwtan1212 said:


> I thought about the shipping too. That's why I asked Romi to buy for me in HK (to save the shipping to HK), mod it and send the whole thing to me. Got it today and very happy with it.




Well If I knew this before buying S1 I would definitely get this shipped to Romi and than to me after the mod. Now I’m just inpatient to wait again, maybe one day if I will get bored with S1  So many things are coming my way I just can’t wait to collect my ciem, s1 and get lost in music


----------



## HuoYuanJia (Jun 23, 2020)

musicday said:


> Latest firmware :
> 
> PAW S1 Firmware 1.0.0.6 (2020-05-28)
> 
> ...


I’m 100% sure I have 1.0.0.7 installed.

Edit: I'm sharing it here. I received the file from Lotoo today. https://www.klauseulenbach.de/wp-content/uploads/PAW-S1_1.0.0.7.zip


----------



## musicday

Well thank you for that, I will get home and update it. Will need to find what's has been changed/improved.


----------



## Spidermanxd

Does any one has issue with static interference with their s1, what i did to get rid of it is hold it in my hand or wrap a piece of paper to it, very annoying, will give it few more days before returning it


----------



## jsmiller58

Spidermanxd said:


> Does any one has issue with static interference with their s1, what i did to get rid of it is hold it in my hand or wrap a piece of paper to it, very annoying, will give it few more days before returning it


Overheating would be one worry.  Lack of access to buttons and screen would be another.


----------



## Spidermanxd

jsmiller58 said:


> Overheating would be one worry.  Lack of access to buttons and screen would be another.


Then how do you get rid of the static interference


----------



## ngd3

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/810-IFM10M25BB300200

Something like this may help


----------



## Spidermanxd

ngd3 said:


> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/810-IFM10M25BB300200
> 
> Something like this may help


Thanks but $37, I think I will return it


----------



## jsmiller58

Spidermanxd said:


> Then how do you get rid of the static interference


In my case I will only use it on WiFi enabled devices, not cellular devices (or at least turn off the cellular when using it on my cell phone)


----------



## rustyvinyl

Can't find any change log on 1.0.0.7?


----------



## AlexCBSN

rustyvinyl said:


> Can't find any change log on 1.0.0.7?


cant even find the fw on their site, however already checked MQA, not available yet, Metallica just released their whole catalog on Master (of puppets) quality in tidal, still 96khz on the go is not bad


----------



## Spidermanxd

jsmiller58 said:


> In my case I will only use it on WiFi enabled devices, not cellular devices (or at least turn off the cellular when using it on my cell phone)


After upgraded to 1007 the issue gone


----------



## jsmiller58

Spidermanxd said:


> After upgraded to 1007 the issue gone


Really?? This I have to try!!


----------



## Spidermanxd

jsmiller58 said:


> Really?? This I have to try!!


Yes, it work, before the upgrade, when I come close to by home system, especially the power amp, there so much static noise, but after the update there none, so try it


----------



## HiFlight

Installed 1007 but can't detect any changes.  It is, however, very quiet when streaming via data rather than wifi.  Perhaps that is all the udate addressedl.


----------



## Spidermanxd

HiFlight said:


> Installed 1007 but can't detect any changes.  It is, however, very quiet when streaming via data rather than wifi.  Perhaps that is all the udate addressedl.


That is all I need


----------



## stersa

Yes,Static noise with 4G is resolved with 1.0.0.7..Perfect 

Best regards

Sisco


----------



## HuoYuanJia

Not quite sure what the EQ Preset Radio is for. Who wants to listen to that?


----------



## rcoleman1

HuoYuanJia said:


> Not quite sure what the EQ Preset Radio is for. Who wants to listen to that?


Maybe audiobooks? Lol


----------



## Layman1

HuoYuanJia said:


> Not quite sure what the EQ Preset Radio is for. Who wants to listen to that?



People who like relatively smooth curves?


----------



## Layman1

I haven't listened to it yet, but I'm sure there's a logic behind it. 
Presumably based on common issues with listening to radio via streaming or similar?
Or perhaps those who miss the sound of listening to music on old radios?


----------



## Damz87

The Headphone preset with my Sony EX1000 IEM’s is brilliant!


----------



## mashuto

1.0.0.7 didn't eliminate the interference for me... Not really sure how a software update would have been able to do that anyways.

I still don't hear it most of the time but it does show up from occasionally and I definitely just heard it. Using WiFi, though it was sitting right next to my laptop which may have contributed.


----------



## BBson

mashuto said:


> 1.0.0.7 didn't eliminate the interference for me... Not really sure how a software update would have been able to do that anyways.
> 
> I still don't hear it most of the time but it does show up from occasionally and I definitely just heard it. Using WiFi, though it was sitting right next to my laptop which may have contributed.


Agree with you I can still hear also


----------



## twister6

HuoYuanJia said:


> Not quite sure what the EQ Preset Radio is for. Who wants to listen to that?



Klaus, I'm guessing these presets are aimed at a wide variety of listeners, beyond audiophiles   That's why they included radio, game, and movie presets in addition to other ones.  I can imagine, a radio preset with a focus on mids/vocals might be useful for listening to podcast or talk radio shows or internet radio shows.


----------



## letitgoo

Hi All, 

does anyone of you have issues with the lotoo usb type c cable which comes with the DAC ?
I noticed that when I move the plug on the DAC side when it is connected it sometimes disconnect from the phone but is still powered on - very strange, then few seconds later it connects to the phone again. Anyone with similar issue ?


----------



## musicday

Latest firmware gives a better sound and stability in general with Windows 7 64 bit at least.


----------



## jeffri

Finally get my S1. It comes with 1.0.0.4 and updated to 1.0.0.7 now. 

And wow, I certainly can heard the differences in sound, like the slight grain is completely gone or something. Not sure if it just my mind playing trick with me, but it is cleaner and notes are more solid overall. This is the sound I'm happier with than the sound coming out of the box.

Going to take some pics and compare it to a few stuff in my arsenal in the next few days. If anyone would like to request some comparison, feel free to check my gears collection on my profile and I'll see what I can do. For starter, I think I'll go with BTR5.


----------



## chaotic_angel

jeffri said:


> Finally get my S1. It comes with 1.0.0.4 and updated to 1.0.0.7 now.
> 
> And wow, I certainly can heard the differences in sound, like the slight grain is completely gone or something. Not sure if it just my mind playing trick with me, but it is cleaner and notes are more solid overall. This is the sound I'm happier with than the sound coming out of the box.
> 
> Going to take some pics and compare it to a few stuff in my arsenal in the next few days. If anyone would like to request some comparison, feel free to check my gears collection on my profile and I'll see what I can do. For starter, I think I'll go with BTR5.



So JNE came earlier than expected Jef  look fwd to read comparison with BTR5. Let's make Rolland Claudio crave for S1


----------



## chaotic_angel

S1 does well pair with Final Audio E4000 with spinfit cp100 tips. Neutral and clean overal with still maintain warm sound sig on E4000


----------



## Spidermanxd

stersa said:


> Yes,Static noise with 4G is resolved with 1.0.0.7..Perfect
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Sisco


Not


----------



## musicday

Spidermanxd said:


> Not


Maybe not for you, but for many of us, no complaints what so ever.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jun 25, 2020)

musicday said:


> Maybe not for you, but for many of us, no complaints what so ever.


I am happy for you if you are not experiencing interference after upgrading the firmware!

But to be sure that you aren’t, do one simple experiment...  go into your source settings and disable WiFi to ensure you are only using cellular... Are you still not hearing interference?  If no interference then your issue has been resolved!  If you still hear interference then the problem remains as this is an issue only encountered on cellular to the best of my knowledge.


----------



## AlexCBSN (Jun 25, 2020)

it did not eliminate the static THOUGH i dont know how, they did mitigate it, i was coming home last night and in the elevator to my apartment is where i get the most EFI from, dont know if they implemented a filter, but it wasnt AS BAD as before, i was actually trying to listen to it. the first days i had this thing, efi there was unbearable. Romi's mod did help though, it helped reducing the noise a bit, but the FW did something, as well sound wise it feels different, sort of like the notes are heavier. more presence per se


----------



## rustyvinyl

I never experienced any static, only mobile cellular network interferences.


----------



## AlexCBSN

rustyvinyl said:


> I never experienced any static, only mobile cellular network interferences.


sorry mate, i meant efi


----------



## thesheik137

FYI, for those still struggling with noise, I have got my EMI noise down to unnoticeable levels with two very simple/cheap "mods":

- TitanRF Faraday Tape
- ddHiFi TC05 USB C to USB C cable

If you want me to test out any cases I can. My IEMs are quite sensitive (111db/mw) and I'm using balanced out.


----------



## abitdeef

I'm intrigued by this little dongle, I have a E1DA 9038s ver 3 coming to check out but it's been stuck in China for 24 days - ali express shipping. So after reading some of these glowing impressions I ordered one. Checking out r3 pro saber which is very good.

Has anyone used a galaxy s10 with this dongle? I hope it powers it


----------



## feverfive

thesheik137 said:


> FYI, for those still struggling with noise, I have got my EMI noise down to unnoticeable levels with two very simple/cheap "mods":
> 
> - TitanRF Faraday Tape
> - ddHiFi TC05 USB C to USB C cable
> ...


A friend was trying to figure this out too, so I sent him a screenshot of your suggestions.  Thanks for posting this.


----------



## musicday

abitdeef said:


> I'm intrigued by this little dongle, I have a E1DA 9038s ver 3 coming to check out but it's been stuck in China for 24 days - ali express shipping. So after reading some of these glowing impressions I ordered one. Checking out r3 pro saber which is very good.
> 
> Has anyone used a galaxy s10 with this dongle? I hope it powers it


The S1 use very little current and has great power output.
I am using mine with LG V50.
Rest your fears.


----------



## abitdeef

musicday said:


> The S1 use very little current and has great power output.
> I am using mine with LG V50.
> Rest your fears.



Ok well someone said it didn't work with their galaxy s20, so I wasn't sure.


----------



## drbluenewmexico

musicday said:


> The S1 use very little current and has great power output.
> I am using mine with LG V50.
> Rest your fears.


Yes fantastic with LGV50


----------



## abitdeef

Yes, yes fantastic with lgv50, happy for you guys, but I don't have an lgv50.


----------



## musicday

abitdeef said:


> Yes, yes fantastic with lgv50, happy for you guys, but I don't have an lgv50.


Forget about the LG V50, get the V60. Sadly will not be available in UK as I want to upgrade.


----------



## abitdeef

musicday said:


> Forget about the LG V50, get the V60. Sadly will not be available in UK as I want to upgrade.



I'll go straight for the v8  er 80. The s10 is more than I need.


----------



## circafreedom

I’ve been having issues with my IPhone and iPad not recognizing the S1 when plugged in. This is a recent occurrence. Anyone else having this issue? I’m using an Apple cck cable for the lightning portion.


----------



## AlexCBSN

circafreedom said:


> I’ve been having issues with my IPhone and iPad not recognizing the S1 when plugged in. This is a recent occurrence. Anyone else having this issue? I’m using an Apple cck cable for the lightning portion.



 Have you tried the cck with another device? Or the usb c cable ? Does it turns on? I’m using that route through my iPhone, haven’t run into any troubles


----------



## chaotic_angel

circafreedom said:


> I’ve been having issues with my IPhone and iPad not recognizing the S1 when plugged in. This is a recent occurrence. Anyone else having this issue? I’m using an Apple cck cable for the lightning portion.



Tried with Ipad Air + Ipad mini 1st gen no issue using Lotoo C to Lightning. Spotify works flawlessly


----------



## chaotic_angel

letitgoo said:


> Hi All,
> 
> does anyone of you have issues with the lotoo usb type c cable which comes with the DAC ?
> I noticed that when I move the plug on the DAC side when it is connected it sometimes disconnect from the phone but is still powered on - very strange, then few seconds later it connects to the phone again. Anyone with similar issue ?



happening with me too. I am using ASUS Zenfone 5 2019, it is bummer whenever moved bit the UAPP shows usb detached..


----------



## letitgoo

chaotic_angel said:


> happening with me too. I am using ASUS Zenfone 5 2019, it is bummer whenever moved bit the UAPP shows usb detached..



Have exactly the same ONLY with lotoo usb type c cable. I ordered fiio cable and no issues at all. 
Here is the link just in case: https://fiio-shop.de/kabel/888/fiio-lt-tc1


----------



## jeffri

It's perfect with my U12, there is no hiss that I could tell so far, so I'm super happy. Used with Nintendo Switch as well and works great.

However, pairing it with Ether 2 is pushing it a bit too much. The volume was loud enough at 90+ high gain, but it started to distort when pushing to 98+, so there isn't much of headroom here. While loudness is fine, it is also evident that it doesn't have the power to push Ether 2 properly, causing it to sounds slightly thinny. The headphones preset was able to restore some of thickness back though, but bass is still not satisfactory.

Of course, pushing a planar magnetic like that is a tall order and not something this little dongle is designed for. I think it still would be useful to note this, in case someone was wondering how it goes pushing hard to drive headphones.


----------



## circafreedom

AlexCBSN said:


> Have you tried the cck with another device? Or the usb c cable ? Does it turns on? I’m using that route through my iPhone, haven’t run into any troubles


I updated it on my Mac yesterday using the usb c w/ adapter provided. I can’t figure out how to use it on my Mac though, I thought it would be plug and play like my other idevice. I have a new cck cable coming tomorrow. I feel that may be the issue at play here.


----------



## HuoYuanJia

Is there an official explanation of what Lotoo's ATE does? Where do I have to search to find out what parameter enhances the timbre? I cannot notice any change in the impulse response, phase or distortion other than what is clearly due to equalization.


----------



## deafdoorknob (Jun 26, 2020)

HuoYuanJia said:


> Is there an official explanation of what Lotoo's ATE does? Where do I have to search to find out what parameter enhances the timbre? I cannot notice any change in the impulse response, phase or distortion other than what is clearly due to equalization.



no one knows afaik I, for one am looking forward to your EQ graphs because What is Dental?




Means buggerall tbh, ate uses DSP but not PMEQ?


----------



## abitdeef

Received mine today, dead easy to upgrade and use. Works with my S10e, and the r3p saber.

Sound wise, it's better than I expected. It reminds me of the paw 600 and really doesn't sound like a tiny dongle. Neutralish with a surprisingly big soundstage and plenty of power. Need more time but first impressions are it sounds as good or better than mid level daps and much higher priced gear.

Oh and it's smaller than I expected good stuff, I'll be using this alot.


----------



## AlexCBSN (Jun 27, 2020)

circafreedom said:


> I updated it on my Mac yesterday using the usb c w/ adapter provided. I can’t figure out how to use it on my Mac though, I thought it would be plug and play like my other idevice. I have a new cck cable coming tomorrow. I feel that may be the issue at play here.


If you were able to update it then something's wrong. I wonder if something could've gone wrong with the update. Let us know, for one, changing the cable at least. On Mac is basically plug and play, maybe checking on the sound and/ or midi settings if  it’s listed


----------



## circafreedom

AlexCBSN said:


> If you were able to update, then I wonder if something could have gone wrong with the update. Let us know, for one, changing the cable at least, on Mac is basically plug and play, maybe checking on the sound and/ or midi settings if  it’s listed


It powers on when I plug it into my MacBook. I did the 1.0.0.6 update. I’ll try using another one and see if that works. I have a feeling it may be the cck cable though as it was working intermittently with my iPad prior to the update.


----------



## HuoYuanJia

deafdoorknob said:


> I, for one am looking forward to your EQ graphs because What is Dental?


Cheers! I appreciate it. Here you go: https://www.klauseulenbach.de/2020/06/27/lotoo-paw-s1-filter-presets/


----------



## abitdeef

After messing around with the filters I like 'none' the best, but it's a nice array and they do actually make a difference.


----------



## deafdoorknob

HuoYuanJia said:


> Cheers! I appreciate it. Here you go: https://www.klauseulenbach.de/2020/06/27/lotoo-paw-s1-filter-presets/


Thanks so much for taking the time to measure and annotate the effects of those inscrutable filters!


----------



## abitdeef

jeffri said:


> It's perfect with my U12, there is no hiss that I could tell so far, so I'm super happy. Used with Nintendo Switch as well and works great.
> 
> However, pairing it with Ether 2 is pushing it a bit too much. The volume was loud enough at 90+ high gain, but it started to distort when pushing to 98+, so there isn't much of headroom here. While loudness is fine, it is also evident that it doesn't have the power to push Ether 2 properly, causing it to sounds slightly thinny. The headphones preset was able to restore some of thickness back though, but bass is still not satisfactory.
> 
> Of course, pushing a planar magnetic like that is a tall order and not something this little dongle is designed for. I think it still would be useful to note this, in case someone was wondering how it goes pushing hard to drive headphones.



The Q1 looks so cool beside the S1, dare I say cute?


----------



## jeffri

abitdeef said:


> The Q1 looks so cool beside the S1, dare I say cute?



It's nice little DAP and would power the S1 just fine. As a bonus, you can even stream LDAC from phone to Q1 then output to S1, although that introduces a bit of delay in audio sync. Not good for video, but certainly can work for music streaming from phone. That would be handy when the phone need a charge.


----------



## musicday

Very good sound for a very good price as follows : Blon BL03 with 16 core copper 4.4 mm balanced  with S1.
Powerful sound, realistic left and right separation with wide soundstage and powerful deep bass especially for movies.


----------



## abitdeef (Jun 28, 2020)

jeffri said:


> It's nice little DAP and would power the S1 just fine. As a bonus, you can even stream LDAC from phone to Q1 then output to S1, although that introduces a bit of delay in audio sync. Not good for video, but certainly can work for music streaming from phone. That would be handy when the phone need a charge.



Yep I have the r3pro (I like small daps) and it powers the S1 fine. The Q1 looks even smaller  I like having a small dap for exercise, yard, work, chores that does BT.

Might have to demo a Q1.

Actually ordered one to pair with my S1 and use for Bluetooth use. The compact size and battery life is appealing to me.


----------



## abitdeef (Jun 27, 2020)

musicday said:


> Very good sound for a very good price as follows : Blon BL03 with 16 core copper 4.4 mm balanced  with S1.
> Powerful sound, realistic left and right separation with wide soundstage and powerful deep bass especially for movies.



The blo3 are fantastic. I couldn't get a good fit but the sound for the price is just crazy. I bet they do sound nice with S1.

Lots of great sounding stuff for cheap lately- btr5, hiby r3pro,Q1, and I heard even the tiny bare bones fiio m3pro (guess everyone's doing pro's ha ha) punches way above it's price soundwise. Although the thing that surprised me about the S1 is the precise separation and control of timing of attacks and decays and the holographic sound stage that's usually reserved for much more $$ gear.


----------



## musicday

On the Lotoo.jp website the latest 1.0.0.7 is no added, only up to the 1.0.0.6


----------



## rustyvinyl

musicday said:


> On the Lotoo.jp website the latest 1.0.0.7 is no added, only up to the 1.0.0.6


It should be officially released next week.


----------



## ade_hall

Appears you can't revert to an older firmware


----------



## jsmiller58

ade_hall said:


> Appears you can't revert to an older firmware


That’s a shame but not really a surprise as a lot of consumer devices have a tough time going backwards in FW revs...  a good design practice is to maintain on the device a backup version of the stock FW so in the event of a disastrous upgrade (either bad FW or failed upgrade attempt) the device can be reset to stock.  Complicates the design a bit and requires extra storage.  If the S1 supports revert to stock FW you can always do that and then update to what version you want.  But I don’t know if this is supported.


----------



## jburks725

Just got my PAW S1, and I'm impressed so far. I played an hour or so with the stock 1.0.0.4 firmware on my iPhone XS with the Lotoo USB-C Lighting cable on WiFi, and it was just fine into my Solaris 2020s. No hiss on low gain at 10-15 volume, and no EMI problems that I could detect. I just updated to 1.0.0.7 via my MBP and the included USB-C cable, and am now playing music through it (just a simple unplug and re-plug to get it back to DAC mode on the MBP). This doesn't sound quite as full and dynamic as my iBasso DX220 with the AMP-8 or AMP-9, but it's 90% as good, it's tiny, and it's about 20% of the cost. That's a hard value proposition to pass up. Once they add MQA, I may have to consider selling off the DX220...


----------



## chaotic_angel

re: MQA Lotoo once said "later this year"


----------



## abitdeef

Another Q1-S1 combo  little Q1 pairs nice with S1. Thanx Jeffri


----------



## LuckyGhoul

Just chiming in with an alternative cable suggestion!

xDuoo's Apple Lightning to USB C OTG cable works perfectly with my iPhone SE (old) and PAW S1.  The cable is braided, thick, appears pretty tough.  Shipping to Korea took about two weeks.

https://www.xduoo.net/product/type-c-to-lighting-cable/

(not affiliated with xDuoo in any way)


----------



## AlexCBSN

LuckyGhoul said:


> Just chiming in with an alternative cable suggestion!
> 
> xDuoo's Apple Lightning to USB C OTG cable works perfectly with my iPhone SE (old) and PAW S1.  The cable is braided, thick, appears pretty tough.  Shipping to Korea took about two weeks.
> 
> ...


Mine didn’t work at all on my iPhone X, same cable and everything


----------



## LuckyGhoul

AlexCBSN said:


> Mine didn’t work at all on my iPhone X, same cable and everything


That's unfortunate...  For what it's worth though, the cable also works with iPhone 11 Pro.  Not sure why it wouldn't work with iPhone X :-/


----------



## hakunamakaka (Jun 30, 2020)

After few tries I got it running with my iphone 7, but it took time to recognise S1. 

Guys, but wooow this device is crazy...As an owner of DFR/ Oppo HA2 this S1 is a clear step ahead in SQ against DFR, less against HA2, but what it does way better is imaging, that 3D sound I was unaware my PM3 can produce, it's not left/right channel anymore...even left/right is provided way more accurately than my previous portable devices. How can this be so tiny and so good....


----------



## abitdeef (Jun 30, 2020)

Deleted


----------



## abitdeef

hakunamakaka said:


> After few tries I got it running with my iphone 7, but it took time to recognise S1.
> 
> Guys, but wooow this device is crazy...As an owner of DFR/ Oppo HA2 this S1 is a clear step ahead in SQ against DFR, less against HA2, but what it does way better is imaging, that 3D sound I was unaware my PM3 can produce, it's not left/right channel anymore...even left/right is provided way more accurately than my previous portable devices. How can this be so tiny and so good....



Thats the first thing I noticed, it has that 3d staging and imaging that only top tier daps have.

On a side note, lotoo I'd love a leather case for this tiny bugger 😋


----------



## chaotic_angel

Ipad Mini 1st gen, batt life is better than my phone (need twice charging ever since S1 came) isine 10 sounds good on separation & low impact.


----------



## abitdeef

chaotic_angel said:


> Ipad Mini 1st gen, batt life is better than my phone (need twice charging ever since S1 came) isine 10 sounds good on separation & low impact.



What phone do you have? I've noticed a hit, but honestly not that much with my s10e.


----------



## AlexCBSN

abitdeef said:


> Thats the first thing I noticed, it has that 3d staging and imaging that only top tier daps have.
> 
> On a side note, lotoo I'd love a leather case for this tiny bugger 😋


that x10000


----------



## Mtvilove

Penon audio L-shape type c to lightning adapter works wonderfully on Iphone xs. Took 27 days to receive from China.


----------



## abitdeef

Mtvilove said:


> Penon audio L-shape type c to lightning adapter works wonderfully on Iphone xs. Took 27 days to receive from China.



I'd like to get one like that but with usbC to C. Ifi has a 90° one but it's not braided. I like the braided cables better.


----------



## chaotic_angel

abitdeef said:


> What phone do you have? I've noticed a hit, but honestly not that much with my s10e.



its Zenfone 5 2018, almost 3 times charging in a day for wait for it ... Tin p1 and HE400 (LOL), this S1 is so good.


----------



## abitdeef

Mtvilove said:


> Penon audio L-shape type c to lightning adapter works wonderfully on Iphone xs. Took 27 days to receive from China.



Didn't see any usb c to c cables like this  I'm sure I had a non braided angled 4inch c to c cable - I thought ifi or fiio made it but don't see it. Have to look on ebay.


----------



## abitdeef

chaotic_angel said:


> its Zenfone 5 2018, almost 3 times charging in a day for wait for it ... Tin p1 and HE400 (LOL), this S1 is so good.



I've just been laying mine on the charging base when I'm using it.


----------



## jeffri

Woo Audio angled USB-C to USB-C cable works by the way.


----------



## hakunamakaka

The only disadvantage from my view is that S1 takes the volume control in hand and i’m unable to adjust it using my phone/laptop...Not sure why it’s needed at all. It could be way better if you could control it only through phone/laptop like with DFR.


----------



## jsmiller58

hakunamakaka said:


> The only disadvantage from my view is that S1 takes the volume control in hand and i’m unable to adjust it using my phone/laptop...Not sure why it’s needed at all. It could be way better if you could control it only through phone/laptop like with DFR.


And there are owners of the 9038s who wish that the device has separate physical volume controls...

I will have to double check, but I though that if you use the Tidal app you can adjust volume on both phone and S1, but with UAPP set to bit perfect only on the device...  I will have to try this out again to be sure.


----------



## Devodonaldson

musicday said:


> The S1 use very little current and has great power output.
> I am using mine with LG V50.
> Rest your fears.


Comparison between lg V50 headphones out and the PAW S10, please.


----------



## hakunamakaka

jsmiller58 said:


> And there are owners of the 9038s who wish that the device has separate physical volume controls...
> 
> I will have to double check, but I though that if you use the Tidal app you can adjust volume on both phone and S1, but with UAPP set to bit perfect only on the device...  I will have to try this out again to be sure.



I’ve tried itunes, youtube, soundcloud, local music. In both cases my laptop and phone had no control over volume. For the majority of users it’s best for their source device to have control over the volume as that’s where you select tracks, browse the internet, etc..Honestly I do not see much reason for volume knob on any portable dac/amp. Keep it simple


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 1, 2020)

jeffri said:


> Woo Audio angled USB-C to USB-C cable works by the way.



Thanks, I see one but it's not braided. I've got 2 spare amazon basics, so maybe I'll make my own right angle plug cable.

You can control volume with hiby music on your phone. It has it's own USB volume software built in. I'll check neutron, but the hardware control on the S1 is probably cleaner than software volume control.

Also if you want to use neutron you can check "hardware gain control' under audio hardware settings and you will be able to use the volume control on the device.


----------



## jsmiller58

hakunamakaka said:


> I’ve tried itunes, youtube, soundcloud, local music. In both cases my laptop and phone had no control over volume. For the majority of users it’s best for their source device to have control over the volume as that’s where you select tracks, browse the internet, etc..Honestly I do not see much reason for volume knob on any portable dac/amp. Keep it simple


I won’t argue with you - I understand you don’t see value of volume buttons on the dongle.  

Will experiment after work with my set up.


----------



## musicday

Devodonaldson said:


> Comparison between lg V50 headphones out and the PAW S10, please.


I have them both and Paw S1 is much better in every way. Power, instrument separation, better more defined bass and subbass and clarity.


----------



## Devodonaldson

hakunamakaka said:


> I’ve tried itunes, youtube, soundcloud, local music. In both cases my laptop and phone had no control over volume. For the majority of users it’s best for their source device to have control over the volume as that’s where you select tracks, browse the internet, etc..Honestly I do not see much reason for volume knob on any portable dac/amp. Keep it simple


Honestly one of the biggest reasons for volume control on the device is for more precise volume steps. Android has 15 volume steps, and iOS has about the same. For larger higher ohm, less sensitive headphones, each step isn't a big deal, but for sensitive iems, there could be a big jump from step 10 to 11. Most DAC/amps have anywhere between 40 to 100 steps.


----------



## Devodonaldson

G





musicday said:


> I have them both and Paw S1 is much better in every way. Power, instrument separation, better more defined bass and subbass and clarity.


Good to know. I have an LG V60 that I do thoroughly enjoy as a phone, and for wired headphone use pretty often. I have an iphone 7 strapped to a chord Mojo that I use for hard listening and the v60 for regular out and about. I have BTR5 but I don't use it as much. I have ability to change phones frequently, but mediocre phone output  has kept me off other phones. Now if I can find another phone with a 5000mah battery, then I'd be willing to move on from the v60 and use the S1. Thx for the info


----------



## jeffri

Here is the Woo Audio cable in case anyone is wondering. It's quite nice to have a flat bottom and is more pocketable than straight cable.


----------



## abitdeef

jeffri said:


> Here is the Woo Audio cable in case anyone is wondering. It's quite nice to have a flat bottom and is more pocketable than straight cable.



Cool, I hate the silver and the price but the right angle plugs make it much easier to deal with. Is that fiio music player?


----------



## jeffri

abitdeef said:


> Cool, I hate the silver and the price but the right angle plugs make it much easier to deal with. Is that fiio music player?



No, that's USB Audio Player Pro


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jul 1, 2020)

hakunamakaka said:


> I’ve tried itunes, youtube, soundcloud, local music. In both cases my laptop and phone had no control over volume. For the majority of users it’s best for their source device to have control over the volume as that’s where you select tracks, browse the internet, etc..Honestly I do not see much reason for volume knob on any portable dac/amp. Keep it simple


Well I don’t know your situation, but I can assure you that for me I can adjust my Tidal app volume both on my S1 and my v30.  I hope you can get your situation sorted out.


----------



## chaotic_angel

my vol buttons are working fine on youtube, spotify, tidal and UAPP. I am using Zenfone 5 2018


musicday said:


> I have them both and Paw S1 is much better in every way. Power, instrument separation, better more defined bass and subbass and clarity.


hi, is it true if V50 is warm sound?


----------



## JimJim

Bluetooth your Lotoo Paw S1
Copy from FB group taiwan

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2191192474259756/permalink/3244403892271937/

"How to change the Letu Paw S1 to Bluetooth wireless mode?"

 "How to reduce the noise interference of the Letu Paw S1 mobile phone?"

 These two problems may have been thought by everyone, and I feel that it is not convenient to insert a line on the phone when I go out to use, but at the same time I like the tuning of S1... Sometimes it is quite a dilemma QQ

 Until today I received this toy called Hidizs AP80pro

 Originally thought that it may not be able to meet the needs of Bluetooth connection mobile phone and OTG to S1 at the same time, I did not expect to succeed under a try~~

 In addition to successfully liberating the S1 into a Bluetooth device, even if you use the original Type-C OTG cable, you can’t hear the noise that often appears when the cable moves. Interested fans can try it~

 In addition, if you use a patch cord to connect to the AP80pro listening, you will find that the tuning is not as warm and charming as the S1, and it is a straightforward and neutral sound.  The thrust is good, and the volume is quite small, which is a very convenient choice for going out.

Translation from the pic.


----------



## abitdeef

JimJim said:


> Bluetooth your Lotoo Paw S1
> Copy from FB group taiwan
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/2191192474259756/permalink/3244403892271937/
> ...



Yep you can do that on pretty much any small dap, except fiio m6 I guess. Hopefully hidizs improved the BT on the 'pro' model because it was terrible on the ap80. 

Good thing about r3 pro and Q1 is the battery life when using S1. I haven't tried m0, it can do by directional bt but I don't think it can power S1. If you get a chance can you try the pro with BT headphones? 

I liked the size of ap80 but the bluetooth broke up all the time when using bt headphones walking- especially outside. 

Other than that it sounded OK- a little hot and digital but I really liked the size. Ok back to S1


----------



## chaotic_angel

JimJim said:


> Bluetooth your Lotoo Paw S1
> Copy from FB group taiwan
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/2191192474259756/permalink/3244403892271937/
> ...


works on Shanling M0 too


----------



## gazzington

Do these work well with audeze lcd i3?


----------



## hakunamakaka

jsmiller58 said:


> Well I don’t know your situation, but I can assure you that for me I can adjust my Tidal app volume both on my S1 and my v30.  I hope you can get your situation sorted out.




And when you adjust volume on the phone itself or using other streaming services like spotify ? I do not use Tidal and from my end I can control volume only by pressing S1 buttons....Increasing volume on phone/apps does nothing


----------



## jsmiller58

hakunamakaka said:


> And when you adjust volume on the phone itself or using other streaming services like spotify ? I do not use Tidal and from my end I can control volume only by pressing S1 buttons....Increasing volume on phone/apps does nothing



“And when you adjust volume on the phone itself” - yes, while playing music using Tidal app I can adjust the volume on my LG v30 using the phone’s side volume hardware buttons and the volume does adjust (while the displayed S1 volume value remains at the same number). Separately I can also adjust the volume with the buttons on the S1. Both phone and S1 independently can adjust volume for any combination of volume setting I want.

I have only tried this on Tidal and Audible and they both work the same.  I will have to try with other apps, but since I don’t actually use other music apps I haven’t gotten around to trying Spotify.  Maybe others can answer your question before I can

Good Luck!


----------



## abitdeef

chaotic_angel said:


> works on Shanling M0 too



Thats crazy, I didn't think the m0 had enough power.


----------



## jsmiller58

hakunamakaka said:


> And when you adjust volume on the phone itself or using other streaming services like spotify ? I do not use Tidal and from my end I can control volume only by pressing S1 buttons....Increasing volume on phone/apps does nothing


By the way also validated I can independently adjust volume on phone and S1 on Tidal, Pandora, and Audible.  I haven’t been able to try yet with Spotify, but based on these three I can safely say that at least for me I have no issues with my Android LG v30 and S1 independently adjusting volume on either.


----------



## hakunamakaka

Lucky you...I can confirm that neither iphones/macbooks volume button works.. I was only able to control volume via browser on youtube with my mac.
Maybe there are other iphone users that can share their inputs using streaming services.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jul 2, 2020)

hakunamakaka said:


> Lucky you...I can confirm that neither iphones/macbooks volume button works.. I was only able to control volume via browser on youtube with my mac.
> Maybe there are other iphone users that can share their inputs using streaming services.


My guess, only guess...  Android vs iOS.

I just tried this on my iPad.  Definitely can not adjust the volume on my iPad, only the S1.  So I think different functionality between Android vs iOS devices might be the difference.

I do hope this gets sorted out for you, and all other Apple owners!


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 3, 2020)

Ha ha it does work with m0, lol now thats a mini hi fi system there. Lotoo, a case please. On a side note, my dogs just fart bombed me.

I think I'm going to Ralph


----------



## twister6

Based on my testing with laptop (Thinkpad, Win10) and majority of DAPs, you can only adjust the volume from S1.  The exception was my Galaxy S9 phone, and Hiby R5 and Cayin N6ii daps where I was able to adjust the volume both from S1 and the host.  But not all Android based DAPs acted that way, iBasso DX220 and Shanling M6 volume adjustment was only from S1.

Also, per previous discussion of converting S1 to wireless, Hiby R3 Pro and Hidizs AP80 Pro work great but there is one interesting phenomenon, maybe related to both running Hiby OS.  If you try to change the volume from R3 Pro or AP80 Pro while connected to S1, it crashes the DAP.


----------



## abitdeef

Can't adjust volume on Q1 or m0 either. But galaxy 10e works. R3p saber and ap80 don't work either- volume on unit. Technically it shouldn't work if its just passing digital bit perfect output. 

What's cool is you can use hiby link or synclink with hiby and shanling music apps to control the dap from your phone whilst it's hooked up to S1.


----------



## jsmiller58

.


twister6 said:


> Based on my testing with laptop (Thinkpad, Win10) and majority of DAPs, you can only adjust the volume from S1.  The exception was my Galaxy S9 phone, and Hiby R5 and Cayin N6ii daps where I was able to adjust the volume both from S1 and the host.  But not all Android based DAPs acted that way, iBasso DX220 and Shanling M6 volume adjustment was only from S1.
> 
> Also, per previous discussion of converting S1 to wireless, Hiby R3 Pro and Hidizs AP80 Pro work great but there is one interesting phenomenon, maybe related to both running Hiby OS.  If you try to change the volume from R3 Pro or AP80 Pro while connected to S1, it crashes the DAP.


Thanks.  I have limited number of devices to test with.  Adjusting volume on both source and S1 is possible when using my LG v30 and my R6 Pro (both Android), but I can only adjust volume on the S1 when using my iPad.


----------



## circafreedom

Anyone using an andromeda their S1? Curious to see how it sound since it’s such a sensitive iem.


----------



## Devodonaldson

hakunamakaka said:


> Lucky you...I can confirm that neither iphones/macbooks volume button works.. I was only able to control volume via browser on youtube with my mac.
> Maybe there are other iphone users that can share their inputs using streaming services.


The fact that you CAN'T adjust volume on your iOS device is a GOOD thing. The reason you can't is because iOS sends out a bit-perfect signal to the usb device. In Android, the audio is being processed by the Android audio stack and the Android filters are handling the audio signal before it reaches the DAC.


----------



## jsmiller58

Devodonaldson said:


> The fact that you CAN'T adjust volume on your iOS device is a GOOD thing. The reason you can't is because iOS sends out a bit-perfect signal to the usb device. In Android, the audio is being processed by the Android audio stack and the Android filters are handling the audio signal before it reaches the DAC.


Huh...  hadn’t thought of that...!  

You can still get the same result with UAPP on Android devices - will bypass the Android audio stack.


----------



## twister6

circafreedom said:


> Anyone using an andromeda their S1? Curious to see how it sound since it’s such a sensitive iem.



If your concern is hissing - there is none.


----------



## circafreedom

twister6 said:


> If your concern is hissing - there is none.


Good to know. The other part is the impedance. I’ve read the andromeda doesn’t play well with certain sources, causing bloated bass.


----------



## jburks725

circafreedom said:


> Good to know. The other part is the impedance. I’ve read the andromeda doesn’t play well with certain sources, causing bloated bass.


Using the SE out, I will say the S1 on Low Gain into my Andromeda 2020 sounds great. I don’t think I hear any bloat with the right EFX mode. Sure, the bass boost profile sounds bloated, but on None or Dental, I am quite happy.


----------



## Cat Music

I don't know if they already shared this review, but reading it was interesting, so just in case I leave the link here:

https://sandalaudio.blogspot.com/2020/06/lotoo-paw-s1-usb-dac.html?m=1


----------



## abitdeef

That was a fun read until I got to the fiio m6, hip dac and sony nwa, series bass. I find the bass on the S1 to be full and powerful. Hip dac has more power but I found it to sound a bit muddy to my ears and it doesn't have the holographic slant that the S1 does.

I just think the S1 outclasses those rather easily, except for driving power of hip dac. Ive had every Sony up to the wm1a and I'd put the s1 on par with well with the wm1a. 

Sounds like he likes more mids upfront focused warmer sound. Heck I even thought dragonfly red sounded better than quite a few daps despite not having a battery on board.


----------



## Metalboyy (Jul 4, 2020)

Picked it up yesterday. I could use it for 30min and now the cable does not work anymore. Only if I use it at a weird angle. Really liked what I was hearing during the 30min.


----------



## hakunamakaka (Jul 4, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> That was a fun read until I got to the fiio m6, hip dac and sony nwa, series bass. I find the bass on the S1 to be full and powerful. Hip dac has more power but I found it to sound a bit muddy to my ears and it doesn't have the holographic slant that the S1 does.
> 
> I just think the S1 outclasses those rather easily, except for driving power of hip dac. Ive had every Sony up to the wm1a and I'd put the s1 on par with well with the wm1a.
> 
> Sounds like he likes more mids upfront focused warmer sound. Heck I even thought dragonfly red sounded better than quite a few daps despite not having a battery on board.




While DFR improves sound over the phone it sounds a bit edgy for me. It definitely can't match S1 when testing with my hp, S1 even outclassed my HA2 which I had to put on ebay. It was only better in power output, maybe a tad cleaner sound, but whole sound presentation on well mastered tracks is just on another level with S1. Having volume control only on S1 while using with iOS is a bit annoying, but if as someone says it sends bit-perfect signal to dac and improves the sound, than I'm happy with such implementation


----------



## musicday (Jul 4, 2020)

Lotoo PAW S1 leather case is already available to buy in China: www.jd.com


----------



## abitdeef

musicday said:


> Lotoo PAW S1 leather case is already available to buy in China: www.jd.com



No I want a fitted one with cut outs. But thnx.


----------



## jibberish

abitdeef said:


> No I want a fitted one with cut outs. But thnx.


Ha, I'm with you there.

I continue to be impressed with the sound of the S1. Definitely has a more "musical" feel than my other sources (Radsone ES100 and Khadas Tone Board + JDS Atom).  The S1 really makes my ER2XR and ER4XR sing in high gain mode. ER4XR in particular really comes alive, feels more dynamic compared to when I use ER4XR on other sources.


----------



## abitdeef

jibberish said:


> Ha, I'm with you there.
> 
> I continue to be impressed with the sound of the S1. Definitely has a more "musical" feel than my other sources (Radsone ES100 and Khadas Tone Board + JDS Atom).  The S1 really makes my ER2XR and ER4XR sing in high gain mode. ER4XR in particular really comes alive, feels more dynamic compared to when I use ER4XR on other sources.



It's a very natural, accurate sound thats very clean yet doesn't sound digital. This is my second item from lotoo and I'm impressed by the sound and build quality.

They don't under engineer their less expensive stuff, they extract everything they can get out of the dac and amp circuit. So the 165 dollar S1 sounds very close to the 1200 dollar paw 6000.


----------



## Aradea

Guys, 

I have a couple of questions and I'd appreciate your answers:
1. Not sure if I missed this, but has anyone compared the S1 to the sonata HD pro? 
2. As I own the sonata HD pro and I think it is sufficient to drive my HE4xx, do you think that the S1 can drive the HE4xx as well?


----------



## hakunamakaka

Aradea said:


> Guys,
> 
> I have a couple of questions and I'd appreciate your answers:
> 1. Not sure if I missed this, but has anyone compared the S1 to the sonata HD pro?
> 2. As I own the sonata HD pro and I think it is sufficient to drive my HE4xx, do you think that the S1 can drive the HE4xx as well?




I’m surprised that sonata hd pro can drive he4xx...If i’m looking at correct product.. usb dongle sonata hd pro, S1 will have more power via balanced output than sonata, though dongles are not meant to drive such full sized cans. SQ wise I can’t comment, but I could bet money that S1 would win in contest


----------



## Aradea

hakunamakaka said:


> I’m surprised that sonata hd pro can drive he4xx...If i’m looking at correct product.. usb dongle sonata hd pro, S1 will have more power via balanced output than sonata, though dongles are not meant to drive such full sized cans. SQ wise I can’t comment, but I could bet money that S1 would win in contest



Yeah you are correct, I was referring to the usb dongle sonata HD pro. I am not hearing HE4xx is underpowered with it, bit of course there are many amps that could do the job better. 
I am also guessing that the balance output of the S1 is the only way to go to have a chance to drive the HE4xx.. I am just wondering if people here have experiences driving planars with the S1


----------



## hakunamakaka

Aradea said:


> Yeah you are correct, I was referring to the usb dongle sonata HD pro. I am not hearing HE4xx is underpowered with it, bit of course there are many amps that could do the job better.
> I am also guessing that the balance output of the S1 is the only way to go to have a chance to drive the HE4xx.. I am just wondering if people here have experiences driving planars with the S1



Balanced output is nearly as twice as power-full as single ended on S1. I have pm-3 planars and even using them with S1 via unbalanced 3.5mm jack has more than enough power to drive them, though pm3's are quite easy to drive. Honestly I don't think Sonata HD pro can have a chance against S1. S1 is not very transparent dongle for me as my oppo Ha2, it goes more towards warmer signature and it beats HA2 in size, SQ, better sense of space. Of all dongles, portable dac/amps I had S1 is the king for me so far


----------



## eloelo

This dongle is really something. I recently ABed it with Paw 6000, trying both their 4.4mm output. It is less warm than Paw 6000 at its default setting (using UAPP bit perfect on Samsung S9). Paw 6000 has several DAC filters but it is still warmer at its least warm filter. I prefered S1 to 6000. S1 is slightly less laidback sounding, and matches very well with my QDC 8CL. Pretty detailed, Thick enough to satisfy, Airy enough to prevent it from being congested sounding. Also preferred it to DAPs Cayin N6ii, Opus #2, DX160, DX220 (default), R5, Shanling M0 and dongles Sonata HD Pro, Meizu Pro, Apple dongle, E1DA G3, BTR5. I could see it sapping my phone's battery more than I hope for, but I took the dive and ordered one =)


----------



## abitdeef

eloelo said:


> This dongle is really something. I recently ABed it with Paw 6000, trying both their 4.4mm output. It is less warm than Paw 6000 at its default setting (using UAPP bit perfect on Samsung S9). Paw 6000 has several DAC filters but it is still warmer at its least warm filter. I prefered S1 to 6000. S1 is slightly less laidback sounding, and matches very well with my QDC 8CL. Pretty detailed, Thick enough to satisfy, Airy enough to prevent it from being congested sounding. Also preferred it to DAPs Cayin N6ii, Opus #2, DX160, DX220 (default), R5, Shanling M0 and dongles Sonata HD Pro, Meizu Pro, Apple dongle, E1DA G3, BTR5. I could see it sapping my phone's battery more than I hope for, but I took the dive and ordered one =)



I've had all of the daps you mentioned except opus #2 and I agree. Dongles I've only had dfr and btr5 and I liked the sound of S1 better. Getting ED1A g3 to test soon. But I love the S1.


----------



## jeffri

musicday said:


> Lotoo PAW S1 leather case is already available to buy in China: www.jd.com



They do look nice. But a bit of missed opportunity as it only carries the device. If only they could also fit the cable or that it has cut out.


----------



## Spidermanxd

jeffri said:


> They do look nice. But a bit of missed opportunity as it only carries the device. If only they could also fit the cable or that it has cut out.


You can always cut the cutout yourself not that difficult


----------



## abitdeef

The S1 seems popular, I'm sure we'll see a fitted case from someone before too long.


----------



## Spidermanxd (Jul 5, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> The S1 seems popular, I'm sure we'll see a fitted case from someone before too long.


----------



## abitdeef

Spidermanxd said:


>



Where can I buy?


----------



## Spidermanxd

abitdeef said:


> Where can I buy?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-Prote...-/224069606270?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292


----------



## abitdeef

Spidermanxd said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-Prote...-/224069606270?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292



Thnx


----------



## drbluenewmexico

abitdeef said:


> Where can I buy?


Musicteck.com


----------



## Spidermanxd

drbluenewmexico said:


> Musicteck.com


Musicteck don't sell that case


----------



## abitdeef

I already have S1


----------



## musicday

Thank you, they all look nice, but I placed an order for black colour.


----------



## abitdeef

musicday said:


> Thank you, they all look nice, but I placed an order for black colour.



I'm going to order blk too. I really want leather or a good Italian synthetic leather- but this will do for now. Clear would have been cool.


----------



## Cat Music

abitdeef said:


> I already have S1


and what are your impressions about the sound of your s1?


----------



## abitdeef

Cat Music said:


> and what are your impressions about the sound of your s1?



Neutralish anchored by a bit of warmth with a nice wide and deep sound stage for excellent layering and a good holographic effect. Mids are a bit back to allow room and everything else is in line. 

Great dynamics and nice extended treble but perfectly controlled, not metallic or spikey or harsh. Bass is full with good subass and speed and isn't boomy or loosey goosey. It responds good to EQ and sounds like the headphones you're using.

I'd call it natural sounding. No extra treble boost to simulate more detail. Just a touch of warmth to keep it from sounding thin. But it's got great detail retrieval and resolution just like the big brother- 6000. Especially with good quality material. 

Minuses- it's not going to drive big planars or hd600 because it's power is limited.


----------



## HiFlight

musicday said:


> Thank you, they all look nice, but I placed an order for black colour.


Same for me.


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 6, 2020)

HiFlight said:


> Same for me.



The red and blue just didn't do it for me. It will be nice not worrying about the back getiing scratched up. I love that lotoo has screw access even on this little thing.

Good for modding, or if you're just curious- I might take a peek 

A couple of shots, really nice clean pcb work. I can see the amp ops, an Akm clocking chip, a precision clock chip and a system bios chip along with some small caps and resistors. 

I suspect the dac and a blackfin chip on the other side. I didn't remove the board it at this time. But it looks wonderful and even has plastic screw washers.


----------



## AlexCBSN

abitdeef said:


> The red and blue just didn't do it for me. It will be nice not worrying about the back getiing scratched up. I love that lotoo has screw access even on this little thing.
> 
> Good for modding, or if you're just curious- I might take a peek
> 
> ...


Thought for a second you were modding it


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 6, 2020)

AlexCBSN said:


> Thought for a second you were modding it



Lol, no I'm sure lotoo has better sound engineers than me. I just wanted to take a gander at the pcb work. It's very tidy.


----------



## jibberish

Spidermanxd said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-Prote...-/224069606270?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292


Oh, awesome.  Just ordered one of these as well.


----------



## abitdeef

jibberish said:


> Oh, awesome.  Just ordered one of these as well.



What colour?


----------



## jibberish

abitdeef said:


> What colour?


Black, since it'll match my phone case and my keyboard/mouse, haha


----------



## abitdeef

jibberish said:


> Black, since it'll match my phone case and my keyboard/mouse, haha



I think the other choices look yuck 🤮 lol


----------



## Rcuello56

Wyville said:


> I think there are still some compatibility issues to be ironed out because I can’t get it to work with my phone either (Sony XA2, does power up but no sound). Lotoo is checking into it.


Hi, did you get any update on this issue with XA2? just received the S1 and facing the same problem


----------



## Wyville

Rcuello56 said:


> Hi, did you get any update on this issue with XA2? just received the S1 and facing the same problem


I have not yet got it to work, but I will check with Lotoo to see if they have found a solution yet.


----------



## musicday

I am wondering how many have sold since this is a very good product.


----------



## Metalboyy

Does anyone else use the near field Efx. It gives me maybe the best sound from a source I have ever heard! It matches very good with my itsfit fusion but the Ambient acoustics Mad24 gets a little too bassy sometimes but still excellent.


----------



## Rockwell75

Got one of these coming in the mail...has anyone heard it with Solaris?


----------



## mashuto

Rockwell75 said:


> Got one of these coming in the mail...has anyone heard it with Solaris?


For the 2020 Solaris I actually kind of preferred it over the n6ii e01. It adds a small touch of warmth (which I prefer) and doesn't really give up much in terms of technicalities/soundstage. And there's no hiss I can hear, but I do hear hiss on the n6ii.

It does have a tendency to pick up some interference noise, which I think is made worse on the Solaris due to how sensitive they are. But this will likely also depend on usage, wifi vs mobile and things like that.


----------



## Damz87

mashuto said:


> For the 2020 Solaris I actually kind of preferred it over the n6ii e01. It adds a small touch of warmth (which I prefer) and doesn't really give up much in terms of technicalities/soundstage. And there's no hiss I can hear, but I do hear hiss on the n6ii.
> 
> It does have a tendency to pick up some interference noise, which I think is made worse on the Solaris due to how sensitive they are. But this will likely also depend on usage, wifi vs mobile and things like that.



Also make sure you turn the volume right down if you switch to high gain. Doesn’t take much for the Solaris to get to deafening levels on high gain!


----------



## mashuto

Damz87 said:


> Also make sure you turn the volume right down if you switch to high gain. Doesn’t take much for the Solaris to get to deafening levels on high gain!


Yea definitely that. I think I ended up somewhere at the mid to upper 20s for volume on low gain and that was about as loud as I could go with the Solaris.


----------



## AlexCBSN

yesterday i got a phone call through my ipad, and was trying to get the volume up, i couldnt do it in the s1, had to use the ipad volume control, calls are actually managed by the source device then; it was interesting to find out about it, i think our thoughts were right, the s1 might get bit perfect info and manage all the data by it self rather than let the source handle part of it.


----------



## jburks725

mashuto said:


> Yea definitely that. I think I ended up somewhere at the mid to upper 20s for volume on low gain and that was about as loud as I could go with the Solaris.


Yeah, my normal listening volume on my Solaris 2020 is about 12, on low gain single-ended. You can blow an eardrum with this thing pretty quickly if you’re not careful!


----------



## Layman1

abitdeef said:


> Neutralish anchored by a bit of warmth with a nice wide and deep sound stage for excellent layering and a good holographic effect. Mids are a bit back to allow room and everything else is in line.
> 
> Great dynamics and nice extended treble but perfectly controlled, not metallic or spikey or harsh. Bass is full with good subass and speed and isn't boomy or loosey goosey. It responds good to EQ and sounds like the headphones you're using.
> 
> ...



I concur with all of the above (except for with regards to headphones, purely because I have no experience with them and the S1, haha).
But it's astonishing how much of that sumptuous Lotoo sound quality they've managed to cram into this tiny device


----------



## abitdeef

Tried out little E1DA 9038S ver 3 today. It's very tiny and packs a lot of power. However compared to S1 it just doesn't have the naturalness, musicality, whatever you want to call it. It soubds like a more powerful DFR to me with the mids up front and the treble a touch splashy.

More neutral than S1 and the imaging isn't as good. It may change a little, the treble might settle down but you can tell it will never have the holographic like stage and precise natural sound of the S1.

Don't get me wrong, it sounds like a saber and is very powerful and neutral. It sounds better than many daps. Just not as natural and effortless as S1.

I tested toto Africa hi res 24 bit and the bass notes in the beginning of Rosanna sounded not only more full but also more detailed and textured than E1DA. E1DA sounds flatter with not as much space.

Things were easier to pick out on S1. Now I'll play with it awhile and see if a bit of burn in helps. Now it's funny that the S1 has a lowly AKM 4377 dac and the E1DA has the newer and more 'powerful' ES90832Qm yet I find the S1 more accurate and detailed.

It's all about implementation and how you design the power and output circuit. Not so much as how many or what type of dac you have. I have heard AKM chips sound hot and sizzly and ESS chips sound warmish. 

My point is lotoo designed a better sounding circuit. But, don’t get me wrong the little e1da still sounds better than Dfr to me and packs serious power. I don’t use my hd600 anymore because they hurt my ears, but im sure e1da would drive them better. Which is pretty crazy considering it's size.


----------



## Cat Music

abitdeef said:


> Tried out little E1DA 9038S ver 3 today. It's very tiny and packs a lot of power. However compared to S1 it just doesn't have the naturalness, musicality, whatever you want to call it. It soubds like a more powerful DFR to me with the mids up front and the treble a touch splashy.
> 
> More neutral than S1 and the imaging isn't as good. It may change a little, the treble might settle down but you can tell it will never have the holographic like stage and precise natural sound of the S1.
> 
> ...


What headphones have you paired your s1 with?


----------



## abitdeef

Cat Music said:


> What headphones have you paired your s1 with?



Meze classics 99, but mostly akt8ie ii.


----------



## JimJim (Jul 7, 2020)

musicday said:


> Lotoo PAW S1 leather case is already available to buy in China: www.jd.com






Side view and back


----------



## Rockwell75

Damz87 said:


> Also make sure you turn the volume right down if you switch to high gain. Doesn’t take much for the Solaris to get to deafening levels on high gain!



Awaiting your Erlky impressions!


----------



## 8481

Rockwell75 said:


> Got one of these coming in the mail...has anyone heard it with Solaris?



Using with the SE here, vol1 on high gain is more than enough. 

I don't hear any hiss, S1 gives a balanced sound with good body.


----------



## ade_hall

Devodonaldson said:


> The fact that you CAN'T adjust volume on your iOS device is a GOOD thing. The reason you can't is because iOS sends out a bit-perfect signal to the usb device. In Android, the audio is being processed by the Android audio stack and the Android filters are handling the audio signal before it reaches the DAC.



Would be nice to have a software override mode for Apple Watch users


----------



## hakunamakaka

Hi guys, 

Did you found a proper way to fight with interferance using balanced output ? As well how you use S1 on the go ? Lotoo cable seems won’t last for me as it’s always bent in sharp angle when it’s dropped in my pocket with phone :/


----------



## Combover Grover

Any more thoughts on the S1 compared to the Dragonfly Cobalt?


----------



## Wyville

Rcuello56 said:


> Hi, did you get any update on this issue with XA2? just received the S1 and facing the same problem


So Lotoo actually bought one to try it out and they got it to work no problem (even sent me a video of it). It might be that it has to do with the stock cable, but I am not sure if I have an alternative cable available and so I might need to order one or steal one from my wife.  Perhaps you can give it a try if you have one lying around. You can also try the UAC1 mode, which is activated by holding the "+" button when you plug it in, but that did not work for me.


----------



## Rcuello56

Wyville said:


> So Lotoo actually bought one to try it out and they got it to work no problem (even sent me a video of it). It might be that it has to do with the stock cable, but I am not sure if I have an alternative cable available and so I might need to order one or steal one from my wife.  Perhaps you can give it a try if you have one lying around. You can also try the UAC1 mode, which is activated by holding the "+" button when you plug it in, but that did not work for me.


Great, I'll give a try and let you know


----------



## Rcuello56

Rcuello56 said:


> Great, I'll give a try and let you know



Hi, no luck, as you can see in the image, UAPP still shows "Direct" instead "USB DAC", I've also tried UAC1 without a positive result 

Keep looking for some solution over there. Thanks!


----------



## Wyville

Rcuello56 said:


> Hi, no luck, as you can see in the image, UAPP still shows "Direct" instead "USB DAC", I've also tried UAC1 without a positive result
> 
> Keep looking for some solution over there. Thanks!


That's a shame and such a weird issue. I will continue to try and get it to work. Will let you know if I get there!


----------



## DoConor

abitdeef said:


> Meze classics 99, but mostly akt8ie ii.


Hi,
 I'm listening to my Meze 99 Classics on my old LG V10 which I only use as DAP.  and I was ready to order a Penon Orb iems that I have been for a long time, to use it outside with the V10.  But I read your impressions with a lot of interest and I would like to know with which cable and pads do you use your 99 Classics with the Lotoo Paw S1?  And what about sound?


----------



## musicday

Still Lotoo.jp doesn't have the 1.0.0.7 firmware. I am wondering if they will go from 06 to 08 directly once available.


----------



## abitdeef

DoConor said:


> Hi,
> I'm listening to my Meze 99 Classics on my old LG V10 which I only use as DAP.  and I was ready to order a Penon Orb iems that I have been for a long time, to use it outside with the V10.  But I read your impressions with a lot of interest and I would like to know with which cable and pads do you use your 99 Classics with the Lotoo Paw S1?  And what about sound?



Hi, I use the cheap meze 2.5 balanced cable with 4.4 adapter and I use the original pads. I don’t use them that much because even with the lightest and softest heaphones and pads my ears hurt after about 45 minutes or so. I can really only tolerate tiny, light, iems. 

The sound, the sound is very good with deep bass, open mids, and extended treble and a big sound stage. I use high gain on both my iems (which I use 95%) of the time. I have no doubt the Meze would sound better with the S1 than the v10.


----------



## DoConor

abitdeef said:


> Hi, I use the cheap meze 2.5 balanced cable with 4.4 adapter and I use the original pads. I don’t use them that much because even with the lightest and softest heaphones and pads my ears hurt after about 45 minutes or so. I can really only tolerate tiny, light, iems.
> 
> The sound, the sound is very good with deep bass, open mids, and extended treble and a big sound stage. I use high gain on both my iems (which I use 95%) of the time. I have no doubt the Meze would sound better with the S1 than the v10.


Thanks for the quick and accurate response.  So I see that I have to invest in this S1, a balanced 2.5 Meze cable, a 2.5 to 4.4 adapter as well as new Yaxi St pads 2 and save for more for my Penon Orbs.  Thanks again.


----------



## DoConor

Has anyone ever used the S1 with a micro usb source?  I want to be sure it will work with my micro usb V10.


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 8, 2020)

DoConor said:


> Thanks for the quick and accurate response.  So I see that I have to invest in this S1, a balanced 2.5 Meze cable, a 2.5 to 4.4 adapter as well as new Yaxi St pads 2 and save for more for my Penon Orbs.  Thanks again.



Unless you just get a 4.4 balanced cable. I already had the 2.5 cable and adapter. And yes micro USB should work fine, just make sure the cable is OTG.


----------



## DoConor

abitdeef said:


> Unless you just get a 4.4 balanced cable. I already had the 2.5 cable and adapter.


Yes thanks.  But I’m having trouble finding it outside of the Meze store.


----------



## abitdeef

I'm selling E1DA 9038S ver 3 if anybody's interested. Would be good if you want a portable with a lot of driving power.

Just a heads up.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Today on Headfonia we have the full review of the PAW S1. We can only conclude it's a new Headfonia Recommended Buy!

https://www.headfonia.com/lotoo-paw-s1-review/


----------



## JimJim

musicday said:


> Still Lotoo.jp doesn't have the 1.0.0.7 firmware. I am wondering if they will go from 06 to 08 directly once available.


 

I was wondering where is official site for update.


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 10, 2020)

Well after reading Headphonia's review and taking a gander at lotoo's site it definitely has the AD BF706 chip. It definitely could do the user PMEQ, it would be possible on the tiny screen I think, or perhaps a companion app?

It's a really nice PMEQ and would be cool to have the full functionality. Still really cool just having the presets.

Crappy pic, but definitely the Blackfin chip. And below the blackfin I suspect is the dac. Also on other pic below  is the AKM 8142 which is used on the lpgt as a precision clock chip. The lpgt has 2, but there is another clock chip right beside it. So it has dual clocks too.


----------



## Lu88

Finally firmware 1.0.0.7 has been officially released.
http://www.lotoo.cn/about/fuwu/xiazaizhuanqu/yinlebofangqi/20200519/94.html

Release note:
Reduce the output power in [Low Gain] for better experience on high sensitivity IEMs


----------



## abitdeef

I already thought the ouput power on low gain was pretty low ha ha.


----------



## seamon

Got the DAC today. It's pretty good imo


----------



## musicday

Since this is the official firmware, is it worth it to update again?


----------



## Cat Music

seamon said:


> Got the DAC today. It's pretty good imo


What do you think about the sound quality? And how does it compare to your "NextDrive Spectra X"?


----------



## seamon

Cat Music said:


> What do you think about the sound quality? And how does it compare to your "NextDrive Spectra X"?


Paw S1 is more neutral. Spectra X is more midrange focused


----------



## JerBullfrog

I am stuck between getting this for my iPhone or getting a Hiby R5. Based on sound quality alone, what would you suggest? I kind of like the idea of using just my iphone if the quality is the same or better! (I am using Xelento Remote IEMs and Audeze i3, but will prob just use the cipher cable for that) 
Thanks!


----------



## seamon

Very neutral sound with good body


----------



## abitdeef

JerBullfrog said:


> I am stuck between getting this for my iPhone or getting a Hiby R5. Based on sound quality alone, what would you suggest? I kind of like the idea of using just my iphone if the quality is the same or better! (I am using Xelento Remote IEMs and Audeze i3, but will prob just use the cipher cable for that)
> Thanks!



The S1. The stage is bigger and more 3d on the S1 and the sound is more neutral- natural. Layering is better too, bass is better (tighter) and treble is more extended. I'm simplifying things and this is from memory, but I just had r3 pro and r3 pro saber and I liked those both better than r5 because the stage was wider, but they sounded flat compared to S1. 

Now all 3 of the hibys have more output power but on sound quality alone I'd go with S1. Not that they sound bad, just not like the S1. 

My 2 rupees


----------



## Cat Music (Jul 10, 2020)

.


----------



## Cat Music

abitdeef said:


> The S1. The stage is bigger and more 3d on the S1 and the sound is more neutral- natural. Layering is better too, bass is better (tighter) and treble is more extended. I'm simplifying things and this is from memory, but I just had r3 pro and r3 pro saber and I liked those both better than r5 because the stage was wider, but they sounded flat compared to S1.
> 
> Now all 3 of the hibys have more output power but on sound quality alone I'd go with S1. Not that they sound bad, just not like the S1.
> 
> My 2 rupees


Are you saying that s1, r3 pro, r3 sabre, r5 are all good, but what sound preferences and tastes would you choose s1?


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 10, 2020)

Cat Music said:


> Are you saying that s1, r3 pro, r3 sabre, r5 are all good, but what sound preferences and tastes would you choose s1?



Bigger stage, more natural sounding, more analog sounding less digital, better controlled frequencies and layering. More 'depth' is really noticible. Instead of really upfront mids and a wide stage, the stage is wide and deep, more 3d like. Things all have more space, it's just a better quality of sound to me.

The presentation is different, closest thing I've heard is paw 6000, which has more power.

Yes they all sound good  but I enjoy the presentation and sonic sig of the S1 more.


----------



## chaotic_angel

My windows 7 64 bit doesn't recognize PAW S1, played Foobar no sound. At first it was detecting but then driver is not able to be installed. Any tips/trick?


----------



## twister6

chaotic_angel said:


> My windows 7 64 bit doesn't recognize PAW S1, played Foobar no sound. At first it was detecting but then driver is not able to be installed. Any tips/trick?



So everything was working and then stopped? Did you upgrade the fw? How about trying a different usb-c cable going to your laptop or different USB port on your laptop? Happens to me sometimes with other daps (more often with ibasso) and my laptop where port doesn't recognize connected device anymore until I switch to a different shorter/longer USB cable and/or different USB port on my laptop.


----------



## chaotic_angel

twister6 said:


> So everything was working and then stopped? Did you upgrade the fw? How about trying a different usb-c cable going to your laptop or different USB port on your laptop? Happens to me sometimes with other daps (more often with ibasso) and my laptop where port doesn't recognize connected device anymore until I switch to a different shorter/longer USB cable and/or different USB port on my laptop.



Hi Alex,

It was first time I connected it, windows detected the PAW S1 but driver installation was not succeeded. It was using the supplied Lotoo cable + its adapter. Now I am using normal usb C data  cable  and try different usb plug and hook up but still no response or detected by Foobar


----------



## chaotic_angel (Jul 11, 2020)

chaotic_angel said:


> Hi Alex,
> 
> It was first time I connected it, windows detected the PAW S1 but driver installation was not succeeded. It was using the supplied Lotoo cable + its adapter. Now I am using normal usb C data  cable  and try different usb plug and hook up but still no response or detected by Foobar


edited inserting correct pict


----------



## musicday

I use Windows 7 64 bit ultimate and you need to update the firmware to 1.0.0.6 or 1.0.0.7 in order to have it working. When you connect it after the update you have to press + down while connecting to enter UAC1 mode to allow you maximum of 16/48 khz playback since you are using the USB class A.


----------



## twister6

chaotic_angel said:


> Hi Alex,
> 
> It was first time I connected it, windows detected the PAW S1 but driver installation was not succeeded. It was using the supplied Lotoo cable + its adapter. Now I am using normal usb C data  cable  and try different usb plug and hook up but still no response or detected by Foobar



Correct, as it was mentioned above, download the latest fw here - just click on download arrow icon.  Zip file will have all the instructions how to upgrade the fw and how to use UAC 1 mode for compatibility with Win7.  Also, when everything is connected, double check in Windows audio setting that device is actually recognized.


----------



## chaotic_angel

@musicday & @twister6 many thanks, updated to 1.0.0.7 then press + when plugging to Win 7 now I can use Paw S1 with my laptop & foobar!!


----------



## HiFlight

twister6 said:


> Correct, as it was mentioned above, download the latest fw here - just click on download arrow icon.  Zip file will have all the instructions how to upgrade the fw and how to use UAC 1 mode for compatibility with Win7.  Also, when everything is connected, double check in Windows audio setting that device is actually recognized.


Any chance of a download site translated to English language?


----------



## musicday

HiFlight said:


> Any chance of a download site translated to English language?


Not really needed. Just download the latest firmware from the mentioned website and if you want to see what has been changed, inside the firmware is a text in english explaining that.


----------



## abitdeef

Anybody know if there's any difference between the official version 1.0.7 and the unofficial version we got before?


----------



## musicday

abitdeef said:


> Anybody know if there's any difference between the official version 1.0.7 and the unofficial version we got before?


None I would say. Seems to be the same one. I have tried to update again and it didn't work.
Anyway the unofficial 1.0.0.7 works extremely well and sound fantastic with BL03 on movie mode.


----------



## NCUS

HiFlight said:


> Any chance of a download site translated to English language?


You can run a translator within your browser.  For instance, the new version of Microsoft Edge that comes with Windows now translates foreign language sites automatically to English.


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 11, 2020)

musicday said:


> None I would say. Seems to be the same one. I have tried to update again and it didn't work.
> Anyway the unofficial 1.0.0.7 works extremely well and sound fantastic with BL03 on movie mode.



Cool, cmon 1.0.8 with some surprises? 

Love these guys, especially Gavin.



Oh yeah! Miss ya Neil


----------



## twister6

HiFlight said:


> Any chance of a download site translated to English language?



I mentioned this to Lotoo a few times already, S1 is not even listed on English side of the site.  But it's not really a show stopper because download link is clearly marked regardless of the language and zip has English files with detailed instructions.


----------



## seamon

I liked this DAC until I listened to Dense Audio Adapt Reference.
Long story short, this is on its way back to Amzon


----------



## Cat Music

seamon said:


> I liked this DAC until I listened to Dense Audio Adapt Reference.
> Long story short, this is on its way back to Amzon


How much difference is it, how does the sound of the Dense Audio Adapt Reference compare to the S1?


----------



## seamon (Jul 11, 2020)

Dense Audio Adapt Reference has those liquid and smooth mids reminiscent of a pair of Audeze. Paw S1 is good but the midrange is a little too neutral and somewhat dryish. It's good if you are into the neutral sort of sound but the midrange on the Adapt is just beautiful.

Adapt also has tighter bass with better impact. I never liked the bass impact of AKM chips.


----------



## darkxvx

seamon said:


> Dense Audio Adapt Reference has those liquid and smooth mids reminiscent of a pair of Audeze. Paw S1 is good but the midrange is a little too neutral and somewhat dryish. It's good if you are into the neutral sort of sound but the midrange on the Adapt is just beautiful.
> 
> Adapt also has tighter bass with better impact. I liked the bass impact of AKM chips.


Doesn't the Adapt use an ESS chip and not AKM? The S1 uses an AKM chip.


----------



## Metalboyy

I have used the S1 for awhile now. I think it beats the dx220 in sound quality if I use the near field eq. Otherwise it comes very close. Amazing little dac.


----------



## seamon

darkxvx said:


> Doesn't the Adapt use an ESS chip and not AKM? The S1 uses an AKM chip.


Sorry I meant 
"I never liked the impact of AKM chips"


----------



## musicday (Jul 11, 2020)

Lotoo Paw S1 is already amazing for it's price and size and definitely Lotoo will add more features in the future. They always release many firmware updates for their products.


----------



## jeffri

I tried comparing single ended and balanced today, driving JVC FD01. Dang, the differences is quite a lot. The single ended lack body and a bit thin sounding, while the balanced sounds fuller. The FD01 is a bit bright in nature, so the balanced out bring the tonal more to my liking.

The bigger power from balanced out made quite a bit of differences I guess.


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 11, 2020)

jeffri said:


> I tried comparing single ended and balanced today, driving JVC FD01. Dang, the differences is quite a lot. The single ended lack body and a bit thin sounding, while the balanced sounds fuller. The FD01 is a bit bright in nature, so the balanced out bring the tonal more to my liking.
> 
> The bigger power from balanced out made quite a bit of differences I guess.



Balanced outs, no matter what people say always sound better to me. More power, less noise, and better image rejection- less crosstalk between channels.

Are there excellent sounding single end outputs? Absolutely, but in my experience when they bother putting in a balanced output that output sounds better.

Usually to me, the stage seems bigger and things seem a bit more focused and dynamic.


----------



## hakunamakaka

With balanced output I get too much interference with phone. Especially when my hand is close to it :/


----------



## seamon

hakunamakaka said:


> With balanced output I get too much interference with phone. Especially when my hand is close to it :/


move your hand then


----------



## jeffri

The interference is really quite annoying


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 11, 2020)

hakunamakaka said:


> With balanced output I get too much interference with phone. Especially when my hand is close to it :/



I don’t notice any but I'm not using the stock cable. I'm using the little right angled woo audio cable. I noticed a bit when I used the stock cable and the phone was close to S1. But it was only occasional and didn't hamper my listening. What phone do you have?

Yep just switched cables and when I move the S1 close to the phone there's an intermittent static sound. I don't notice it at all with the woo audio cable. Which is kind of weird because the looto cable is thicker and seems like it would have better sheilding than the thin woo cable.

I just wanted right angle plugs.

Oh and the S1 is easy to take apart. It would be easy to add some emi sheilding tape to the back and frame. Don't know if it would eliminate the all the noise. Maybe it depends on what type of antennas your particular phone uses. Usually 2 with one multiband.


----------



## ngd3

I've been using the S1 a lot with no EQ. Not sure if it happens with other EQs, but I get a vocal echo effect, usually when skipping to the next track. Gives songs a unique depth. Best audio purchase this year for me


----------



## twister6

seamon said:


> Dense Audio Adapt Reference has those liquid and smooth mids reminiscent of a pair of Audeze. Paw S1 is good but the midrange is a little too neutral and somewhat dryish. It's good if you are into the neutral sort of sound but the midrange on the Adapt is just beautiful.
> 
> Adapt also has tighter bass with better impact. I never liked the bass impact of AKM chips.



Are you talking about direct output of Dense usb dongle or through BA300S tube amp per your signature?  I guess it is just a matter of pair up synergy and which IEM or amp/headphones you are using.  Dense uses old ES9218p dac and no amplifier, the same as in shanling M0 and Q1 and hidizs ap80 budget daps, and those are smoother tuned and less resolving.  In comparison, you are right, S1 will be more reference and less colored.


----------



## seamon

twister6 said:


> Are you talking about direct output of Dense usb dongle or through BA300S tube amp per your signature?  I guess it is just a matter of pair up synergy and which IEM or amp/headphones you are using.  Dense uses old ES9218p dac and no amplifier, the same as in shanling M0 and Q1 and hidizs ap80 budget daps, and those are smoother tuned and less resolving.  In comparison, you are right, S1 will be more reference and less colored.


Dense Audio sounds more resolving to me compared to the Balanced Output of Paw S1 through BA300s on a pair of Diana V2
Regardless, the difference is not much but the overall tuning of the Dense is just perfection imo


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 11, 2020)

Liquid mids usually refers to some coloration, and less neutral. Like ak in their non flagship have their mids like that.

Usually with more coloration, there is less resolution. And in my experience those amped sabre chips have some added treble bite that you could perceive as resolution. But on a really busy track or orchestral recordings things appear a bit congested, not open and resolving.

The e1da 9038 was even congested soundinv compared  to S1 on busy tracks. It did have more treble bite, but it wasn't as natural sounding and detailed/resolving as S1 treble.

Other than power output I was disappointed in the E1DA 9038S 3 after hearing all the praise. It sounded like the r3 pro saber where the mids are really up front and you've got nice treble energy but not much depth and highs sounded slightly off.

The r3p saber was actually a little more natural sounding. 

Would like to hear dense- curious but not unless it's bought from an easy return outlet.


----------



## seamon (Jul 11, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> Liquid mids usually refers to some coloration, and less neutral. Like ak in their non flagship have their mids like that.
> 
> Usually with more coloration, there is less resolution. And in my experience those amped sabre chips have some added treble bite that you could perceive as resolution. But on a really busy track or orchestral recordings things appear a bit congested, not open and resolving.
> 
> The e1da 9038 was even congested soundinv compared  to S1 on busy tracks. It did have more treble bite, but it wasn't as natural sounding and detailed/resolving as S1 treble.


Yea as I said S1 is more neutral.

Dense is more resolving due to actual resolution and not due to brighter Treble. I am pretty good at distinguishing a bright headphones that tries to fake transparency vs an actually transparent headphone. A great example of this would be Abyss 1266 Phi vs Sennheiser Orpheus 2. Abyss 1266 Phi might seem more detailed due to brighter Treble vs the actually more transparent He-1.

Coming back to Dense vs S1. The Dense casts a more solid image and manages to separate better which leads to higher resolution. The actual raw resolution is similar with slight edge to Dense but the Dense by virtue of its Imaging and Separation gives you a clearer picture.

My main problem with 9038S was I thought it was a little too bright and analytical.
And again, my main problem with S1 is its too neutral and slightly even dry. It's the DAC equivalent of a dry biscuit, perfectly edible but leaves you wanting more.

Dense midrange sounds closest to my RME ADI 2 FS, I suppose I prefer that kind of midrange. Both midranges have this characteristic sweetness to it.


----------



## jsmiller58

jeffri said:


> The interference is really quite annoying


Interference from LTE is a wider problem than just the S1.  The 9038s has the very same problem.  I don’t understand how manufacturers don’t test their product in the obvious use case...  my suspicion is they test their products indoors and even use WiFi calling so their test rigs / phones don’t actually use much LTE data transfer...


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 11, 2020)

seamon said:


> Yea as I said S1 is more neutral.
> 
> Dense is more resolving due to actual resolution and not due to brighter Treble. I am pretty good at distinguishing a bright headphones that tries to fake transparency vs an actually transparent headphone. A great example of this would be Abyss 1266 Phi vs Sennheiser Orpheus 2. Abyss 1266 Phi might seem more detailed due to brighter Treble vs the actually more transparent He-1.
> 
> ...



Wow that must be some imaging, because with my iems S1 is one of the best imaging dacs/daps I've heard. Not counting flagships. The E1DA seemed more congested and 2 dimensional.

Well if it ever arrives on amazon I might check it out. I like the small size and cooling fins look.


----------



## seamon

abitdeef said:


> Would like to hear dense- curious but not unless it's bought from an easy return outlet.



I was pretty much ready to return the Dense today without listening actually, they offer a 30 day return window because
1) It is Grey
2) It is 3.5mm

I am building a Blackout themed workstation with everything Black. I also ordered a 4.4mm to 4.4mm Pure Silver Upgrade cable to connect the S1 to my amp.

The Dense completely ruined my plans after listening to it. I need to find a way to paint this thing Black. I am not much into custom painting but my buddy says it is easy to paint aluminum and he'll help me out. 
I am still trying to change my upgrade cable order. 
Dammit


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 11, 2020)

seamon said:


> I was pretty much ready to return the Dense today without listening actually, they offer a 30 day return window because
> 1) It is Grey
> 2) It is 3.5mm
> 
> ...



Lol oh dear, 30 days return- wallet is slowly opening.   that's quite an endorsement, I love the sound of the S1, but always open to trying new gear.

Have you compared them straight balanced out S1 to the Dense 3.5 no amp? Because I'm not using an amp.

Aluminum is dead easy to paint, just a can of Krylon will do in a dust free room.


----------



## seamon (Jul 11, 2020)

twister6 said:


> Are you talking about direct output of Dense usb dongle or through BA300S tube amp per your signature?  I guess it is just a matter of pair up synergy and which IEM or amp/headphones you are using.  Dense uses old ES9218p dac and no amplifier, the same as in shanling M0 and Q1 and hidizs ap80 budget daps, and those are smoother tuned and less resolving.  In comparison, you are right, S1 will be more reference and less colored.





abitdeef said:


> Lol oh dear, 30 days return- wallet is slowly opening.   that's quite an endorsement, I love the sound of the S1, but always open to trying new gear.



As @twister6 said, system synergy is super important and the absence of an amp on the Dense probably helps it but to what extent, I am not sure. The synergy in my system with Dense + BA300S + Diana V2 is perfection imo and exactly what I was looking for.

I compared a few DACs to find the perfect one for this system:

I tried - Dense Adapt Reference, Lotoo Paw S1, E1DA 9038S G3, HIDIZS S8 and NextDrive Spectra X.

I would rate them as
Dense > S1 >= 9038S G3 >= Spectra X > S8

Dense - Perfection
S1 - a little dry but great detail and solid imaging + soundstage
9038S - good image but bright and a little too analytical
Spectra X - great midrange, better than S8 and 9038S but Treble is a bit wonky and a little less detailed than S8 and 9038S
S8 - very mediocre in all aspects but sound is balanced.


----------



## seamon (Jul 11, 2020)

abitdeef said:


> Lol oh dear, 30 days return- wallet is slowly opening.   that's quite an endorsement, I love the sound of the S1, but always open to trying new gear.
> 
> Have you compared them straight balanced out S1 to the Dense 3.5 no amp? Because I'm not using an amp.
> 
> Aluminum is dead easy to paint, just a can of Krylon will do in a dust free room.


I did not test the DACs straight out because I wanted the DAC for a very specific purpose and didn't care how they sounded in isolation.
That said, BA300S is a super transparent amp with slight coloration in the midrange making them sweeter. Honestly, if the BA300S was not enough for me to like the S1 then I will definitely not like it in isolation. S1 is not bad imo, if I hadn't heard the Dense, I would probably have lived with the S1


----------



## seamon

My cable order was just changed. Woooooooo!!!


----------



## Cat Music

seamon said:


> I did not test the DACs straight out because I wanted the DAC for a very specific purpose and didn't care how they sounded in isolation.
> That said, BA300S is a super transparent amp with slight coloration in the midrange making them sweeter. Honestly, if the BA300S was not enough for me to like the S1 then I will definitely not like it in isolation. S1 is not bad imo, if I hadn't heard the Dense, I would probably have lived with the S1


so the s1 and the Dense were never tested in isolation ... both were compared using the B300 as an amplifier, it is good that you make that clarification, for a moment I thought that the s1 was behind the Dense, but I see that here the BA300 It is working and playing a leading role in sound performance that we should not miss as a minor detail, surely the synergy between Dense and BA300 is very good, it would be more fair to compare s1 and Dense in isolation, but I suppose that if you haven't, it's because it's not the way you use your dongles ...


----------



## hakunamakaka

abitdeef said:


> I don’t notice any but I'm not using the stock cable. I'm using the little right angled woo audio cable. I noticed a bit when I used the stock cable and the phone was close to S1. But it was only occasional and didn't hamper my listening. What phone do you have?
> 
> Yep just switched cables and when I move the S1 close to the phone there's an intermittent static sound. I don't notice it at all with the woo audio cable. Which is kind of weird because the looto cable is thicker and seems like it would have better sheilding than the thin woo cable.
> 
> ...




My friend maybe you saved me...Is there a such cable for iphone? Intermitted interference happens occasionally even when my hand is further away...


----------



## seamon

Cat Music said:


> so the s1 and the Dense were never tested in isolation ... both were compared using the B300 as an amplifier, it is good that you make that clarification, for a moment I thought that the s1 was behind the Dense, but I see that here the BA300 It is working and playing a leading role in sound performance that we should not miss as a minor detail, surely the synergy between Dense and BA300 is very good, it would be more fair to compare s1 and Dense in isolation, but I suppose that if you haven't, it's because it's not the way you use your dongles ...


The best thing you can do in this hobby is to audition yourself. Audition is the one truth that shall reign supreme in Headfi. Other people's impressions will only take you so far.
The cost of the DAC in this scenario was pretty nominal ($100-$200) compared to the rest of the system (~$3300) that it made sense for me to order multiple units to find the best thing myself. I presume this would be true for other people who are using TOTL IEMs. So that's what I did and Dense won the shootout.


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 11, 2020)

hakunamakaka said:


> My friend maybe you saved me...Is there a such cable for iphone? Intermitted interference happens occasionally even when my hand is further away...



There is an iPhone version (I believe on woo audio)

https://wooaudio.com/accessories/wooaudio-usb-cable

From the features list,

Superior EMI/RFI protection


----------



## abitdeef

seamon said:


> The best thing you can do in this hobby is to audition yourself. Audition is the one truth that shall reign supreme in Headfi. Other people's impressions will only take you so far.
> The cost of the DAC in this scenario was pretty nominal ($100-$200) compared to the rest of the system (~$3300) that it made sense for me to order multiple units to find the best thing myself. I presume this would be true for other people who are using TOTL IEMs. So that's what I did and Dense won the shootout.



Absolutely! Take anybodies impressions with a grain of salt. In your case you're using them with a tube amp. Even the output impedance could factor in feeding the amp. Not how I'd be using it.

S1 already has a nice amp section. So I'm glad I clarified that. I might check it out if it ever comes to Amazon, returns are  easy as driving down the road to Kohls.


----------



## Rockwell75

How do you install the firmware once you've downloaded it?


----------



## twister6

Rockwell75 said:


> How do you install the firmware once you've downloaded it?



Downloaded zip file has instruction in English:

PAW S1 Firmware update

1. Hold "Fn" key on PAW S1 and connect it to a PC/MAC.
2. Copy the file "PAW-S1.COE" to the root of the new loaded removable disk.
3. Wait till "Successful" shown on the screen of PAW S1.
4. Reconnect the usb cable to use the new firmware.


----------



## Lu88

abitdeef said:


> Anybody know if there's any difference between the official version 1.0.7 and the unofficial version we got before?



There are differences at binary level between official 1.0.0.7 and unofficial one, but I'm not sure what they are different at functional level.


----------



## seamon

Alright listened to the Dense bareback on my CA Solaris. It's just as beautiful. Completely destroys the SPX. I am convinced this is the best dongle on the market right now.
I will now leave this thread. Good Luck yall!


----------



## abitdeef

seamon said:


> Alright listened to the Dense bareback on my CA Solaris. It's just as beautiful. Completely destroys the SPX. I am convinced this is the best dongle on the market right now.
> I will now leave this thread. Good Luck yall!



Lol whats the spx? Did you listen to the S1 on them.


----------



## seamon

abitdeef said:


> Lol whats the spx? Did you listen to the S1 on them.


Nextdrive Spectra X. S1 is gone


----------



## abitdeef

seamon said:


> Nextdrive Spectra X. S1 is gone



So did you didn't compare the S1 to the Dense? sans tube amp. And balanced out, cause the se is weak.


----------



## seamon

abitdeef said:


> So did you didn't compare the S1 to the Dense? sans tube amp. And balanced out, cause the se is weak.


I don't have a 4.4mm balanced cable for the Solaris.

If you are perfectly happy with the S1 then don't let my words sway you honestly. Sometimes in this hobby the best course of action is to be ignorant and in bliss. If you are happy with S1 then don't let my words make you unhappy.

No matter what I say, you won't know something for sure until you hear it. You might hate the Dense's midrange for all I know if you prefer a more neutral style of midrange and think Dense is a piece of crap. 

Personally, for me and with my gear, Dense is what I was searching for in a DAC. I am usually very steadfast about my tastes and opinions and don't care much about what other people like because in this hobby what matters at the end of the day is personal satisfaction. If you are buying something just because some reviewer/Headfier said something good, you are doing it wrong. Reviews/Impressions should be a starting point for your search and your ears should always have the final judgement.


----------



## musicday

seamon said:


> Alright listened to the Dense bareback on my CA Solaris. It's just as beautiful. Completely destroys the SPX. I am convinced this is the best dongle on the market right now.
> I will now leave this thread. Good Luck yall!


Well you seem to hear it all different. From the hundreds of this thread you are the one and only who don't like the S1. Nevermind as we all have different taste in food/music etc.


----------



## jeffri

Yeah, the SE is weak. I honestly don't expect this much of differences, but the balanced just sounds much better.


----------



## Rockwell75

musicday said:


> Well you seem to hear it all different. From the hundreds of this thread you are the one and only who don't like the S1. Nevermind as we all have different taste in food/music etc.



That's not what he said-- he does like it, there's just another he likes a little bit more.


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 12, 2020)

seamon said:


> I don't have a 4.4mm balanced cable for the Solaris.
> 
> If you are perfectly happy with the S1 then don't let my words sway you honestly. Sometimes in this hobby the best course of action is to be ignorant and in bliss. If you are happy with S1 then don't let my words make you unhappy.
> 
> ...



You're preaching to the choir  I always say trust your own ears, and 'your' opinion is really the only one that matters.

I am happy lol, just curious that's all, especially when someone says 'this destroyed this 'blank'.  And this is tge best dongle... ect. I've been buying audio gear since the 70's and I've seen and heard it all as far as opinions.  I'm just like small audio equipment and have a crazy curiosity and like to try new stuff- like most of us do. With super glowing comments like that you can't help but be curious. And I only have 2 hobbies, so I don't mind buying new stuff to buy. I'm lucky to have expendable income to check stuff out- I usually sell it on here and lose money lol

But that's OK, I dont do drugs or drink expensive bourbon anymore so at least with gears I don't end up passed out somewhere and I have no idea how I got there ha ha. My brain is starting to function normally again  Honestly it's the pain of listing the item, boxing it up, and taking it to ups etc more than the loss of a few quid.

So with amazon I just take it and give it to the girl at khols which is literally a mile away.. And bobs your uncle im done!

And it didn't matter anyways when I realized you were using an amp with the dongle. And you're right, I like a more neutral presentation without a lot of colouration. Even though the S1 isn't totally neutral, it has some warmth and and organic sound to me.

But if amazon gets it I will 'demo' it 

Enjoy your gears, thats all that matters

And over the last 2 years when I've went on new gear binges, I can honestly say everything sounded good. Some were more to my liking than others but eveything sounded good and most of it I would highly recommend like dx160, r3 pro, the Sonys. Fiio btr5, e1da 9038s, cayin n6ii, lotoo paw 6000 ect. For me, the smaller the dap or dac the better.


----------



## jeffri (Jul 12, 2020)

Anyway, in regards of outputting S1 to amplifier, I tried that with WA11 analog input and it seems it isn't sufficient to send line level output, so it isn't loud enough. And unfortunately, using it this way isn't recommended in my experience, as it send distorted signals if I push it into 100 volume and then just got amplified more.

This works best with IEM and easier to drive headphones.


----------



## abitdeef

jeffri said:


> Yeah, the SE is weak. I honestly don't expect this much of differences, but the balanced just sounds much better.



I'm finding that on a lot of dacs and daps now. The se on the hiby r3 pro sounded underwhelming compared to the balanced. I also thought the btr5 se was bla also, sony zx300 comes to mind too.


----------



## Rockwell75

The fact that this thing has 4.4 balanced is a huge plus for me.  I have a mild aesthetic fetish for 4.4mm cables and this device allows me to easily use my 4.4 cables with my Macbook.


----------



## soas

bflat said:


> I'm not sure it's an OTG issue because USB-C spec has built in OTG. Have no idea on Lightning end though. What is clear to me is that Lotoo cable does not provide power to my iPhone and the Apple OEM cable does provide any power to the S1. It seems power can only go in one direction on the Lightning end, and dictated by how the cable is configured. *I really hope Lotoo cable is fully MFi certified so it doesn't mysteriously stop working with an iOS firmware update*.



Has there been precedence for this? Or am I overthinking things?

The Lotoo USB-C to Lightning cable is compelling, but if it becomes incompatible in the future, that will hamper the portability a bit.


----------



## NCUS

I have the iOS 14 beta installed on my iPhone.  My S1 with the Lotoo USB-C to lightning cable works fine.  That said, there are rumors Apple may remove the lightning port on the 2021 iPhone.


----------



## abitdeef

I


NCUS said:


> I have the iOS 14 beta installed on my iPhone.  My S1 with the Lotoo USB-C to lightning cable works fine.  That said, there are rumors Apple may remove the lightning port on the 2021 iPhone.



And use usb-c? Or no port at all- wireless charging and wireless data transfer.


----------



## NCUS

Rumors are that the higher end 2021 iPhones will not have a charging port and run everything wireless.


----------



## abitdeef

NCUS said:


> Rumors are that the higher end 2021 iPhones will not have a charging port and run everything wireless.



Ahh, thats what I thought.


----------



## soas

NCUS said:


> I have the iOS 14 beta installed on my iPhone.  My S1 with the Lotoo USB-C to lightning cable works fine.  That said, there are rumors Apple may remove the lightning port on the 2021 iPhone.



Good to know!

I think we are a long way away from any mainstream flagships removing their main data/charging port. It looks like Lightning will probably stay for at least one more year. They make money from all the all the peripherals, licensing, etc.

My wish was that they would move to USB-C for a couple of years now...


----------



## JimJim

https://www.facebook.com/2077561479003498/posts/3124881464271489/

Official from FB updates 1.0.0.7


----------



## musicday

JimJim said:


> https://www.facebook.com/2077561479003498/posts/3124881464271489/
> 
> Official from FB updates 1.0.0.7


At least now it's officially confirmed


----------



## Rockwell75

I wish I could see the EQ settings on the presets for this thing…oddly enough I’m really enjoying the “movie” setting (for music).

Also, the battery life I’m getting from my n6ii from this thing is insane.  When plugged directly into the n6ii the battery typically goes down ~10%/hr.  I’ve been listening for over 30 min on a fresh charge through the S1 and the battery only just dropped to 99%…so absent any other factor the S1 coupled with the massive battery of the n6ii is a ticket to many hours of portable paradise.


----------



## xkoo

guys, how can I know which firmware I am running?


----------



## musicday (Jul 13, 2020)

xkoo said:


> guys, how can I know which firmware I am running?


Press FN button when connecting to your computer. The firmware number will be shown in the upper left corner.


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 14, 2020)

Rockwell75 said:


> I wish I could see the EQ settings on the presets for this thing…oddly enough I’m really enjoying the “movie” setting (for music).
> 
> Also, the battery life I’m getting from my n6ii from this thing is insane.  When plugged directly into the n6ii the battery typically goes down ~10%/hr.  I’ve been listening for over 30 min on a fresh charge through the S1 and the battery only just dropped to 99%…so absent any other factor the S1 coupled with the massive battery of the n6ii is a ticket to many hours of portable paradise.



This is from HuoYaunJia - Klaus. This is eveything you could want to know about the presets. And custom EQ theoretically could be possible in the future.

https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma...ch.de/2020/06/27/lotoo-paw-s1-filter-presets/


----------



## Lu88

Finally, official download site in English is ready.
http://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html

Product info site in English:
http://www.lotoo.cn/english/Hi_Fi_Player/PAW_S1/


----------



## hakunamakaka

I’ve ordered wooaudio lighting to usb-c cable. The interference with iphone7 and my cIEM EM10 is too loud to be honest...I hope this cable will fix it, if not :/


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 15, 2020)

hakunamakaka said:


> I’ve ordered wooaudio lighting to usb-c cable. The interference with iphone7 and my cIEM EM10 is too loud to be honest...I hope this cable will fix it, if not :/



Well the regular C to C woo audio cable is quiter than the stock lotoo cable so here's hoping. If you've got any small star drivers you could easily take the back off and stick some emi block material/tape on the inside of the back. If you're brave you can pull the whole pcb out and tape the sides.

Lotoo probably should have treated the unit from emi interference.

If anything you'll have a really nice right angled cable which is nice.


----------



## ActuallySparky

I got my S1 earlier this week after reading through much of this thread. I'm not at all disappointed - this tiny little thing sounds bigger than it's size or it's price suggests.

Is there a head gear entry for posting reviews that my search-fu is failing to find, or should I just post detailed impressions here?


----------



## Cat Music

ActuallySparky said:


> I got my S1 earlier this week after reading through much of this thread. I'm not at all disappointed - this tiny little thing sounds bigger than it's size or it's price suggests.
> 
> Is there a head gear entry for posting reviews that my search-fu is failing to find, or should I just post detailed impressions here?


curious to read your impressions in detail, for me it is good that I publish it in this thread


----------



## abitdeef

ActuallySparky said:


> I got my S1 earlier this week after reading through much of this thread. I'm not at all disappointed - this tiny little thing sounds bigger than it's size or it's price suggests.
> 
> Is there a head gear entry for posting reviews that my search-fu is failing to find, or should I just post detailed impressions here?



Don't think there's a dedicated review thread yet. Here is probably as good as any


----------



## xkoo

anyone have some info if Lotoo will include soft to make your own EQ?


----------



## musicday

ActuallySparky said:


> I got my S1 earlier this week after reading through much of this thread. I'm not at all disappointed - this tiny little thing sounds bigger than it's size or it's price suggests.
> 
> Is there a head gear entry for posting reviews that my search-fu is failing to find, or should I just post detailed impressions here?


Go ahead and write your impressions here. You did the right thing purchasing the S1. Is great especially for it's price.


----------



## abitdeef

xkoo said:


> anyone have some info if Lotoo will include soft to make your own EQ?



No info, but they could since it has the blackfin dsp chip.


----------



## xkoo

abitdeef said:


> No info, but they could since it has the blackfin dsp chip.


I think if they do it will be a killer feature


----------



## abitdeef

xkoo said:


> I think if they do it will be a killer feature



Would be nice to have a nice peq incase you need to tweak the sound for certain iems or cans. I'd imagine they'd probably have to have a companion app. I know this company is good with their firmware updates.


----------



## ActuallySparky (Jul 16, 2020)

*Disclaimer*
_Reviews are subjective - your mileage may vary. Author is a basshead with older ears and limited hearing above 16k. I tested the PAW S1 with IEM use only, mostly more on the efficient side. As a result I mainly tested the SE output on low gain as I listen at lower volumes and don’t need the OMG POWAH. My experience (and thus this review) does not cover full-sized headphones._


*The Good*

Tiny, ultra-portable design
Clear, detailed sound with excellent imaging
Almost silent background (even on the Andromeda!)
Great value - amazing sound for the price
*The Bad*

A bit sharp with some tracks
In-ear click when changing albums or non-gapless tracks
Average soundstage


*TL;DR*
The PAW S1 is shockingly good for both its price and size. I prefer the Chord Mojo for stationary use at home, but when commuting to work or on trips, the Lotoo will be my new go-to. It’s now an essential part of my EDC bag!

Paired with mid-fi IEMs (Dunu DK-2001 or Moondrop Blessing 2), you get great, portable sound for a total cost of $450-500. Paired with a higher-end IEM (Andromeda, etc), it’s a surprisingly technically competent source in the price range.






The Lotoo PAW S1 (left), Fiio BTR5 (top), and Chord Mojo (bottom)​
*Impressions of the PAW S1*
The Lotoo PAW S1 is the cutest little DAC/AMP. It’s so small it almost looks like a toy, but dang, it sounds nearly as good as some desktop sources dramatically more expensive and less portable.

It receives power and data from USB-C. The wattage provided by the USB connection does have an impact on the sound it produces - fed from mobile devices without lots of power, the sound is a little flatter with less detail.

When powered by a laptop or desktop offering at least a couple of watts, the sound the S1 produces is precise, clean, and detailed. I tend to prefer my sound a bit more on the warm/lush side, but something about the way the S1 presents a more technical sound engages me; it’s got a little excitement with just enough warmth there to keep it from being sterile. The sound profile is forward to my ears - nothing laid back here. The S1 features sharp attack - almost (but not quite) to a fault - leading to good transients and an excellent sense of dynamics. 

Bass is well-represented and controlled with enough current to articulate dynamic drivers with authority. “Letters” from Yosi Horikawa’s Spaces album demonstrates impeccable presence with the right IEM, while not blooming over the crisp details in the midrange. Deep basslines found throughout Shpongle’s Museum of Consciousness have weight and presence. Radiohead’s “Ferel” from TKOL has an appropriate growl with the weight and impact the track deserves. Paired correctly, the S1 will be acceptable (but not god-tier) for bassheads, yet the transition from bass to the mids is coherent enough to delight those that are decidedly un-basshead-y.

The mids are very detailed on the S1. The presentation is on the clinical/dry side, but very nuanced. Vocals are naturally presented from the deepest vocal registers all the way through the most ethereal siren call. Brenda Boykin’s Chocolate and Chili album renders with her voice front and center. On albums like Radiohead’s Kid-A where the vocals are mixed a little further back, Thom Yorke’s singing emerges beautifully from the electro-rock soundscape enveloping his every strained word.

Treble is a touch brighter than I usually prefer. As mentioned above, it’s got some excitement and folks sensitive to treble may find it a bit more extended/emphasized than preferred. I’m generally treble sensitive and I quite enjoy the S1, but if you are sensitive, some of the EQ options (esp “dental”) would tame it further. On a few tracks with really hot mastering the treble can come across as slightly grainy, but on most tracks it just sounds crisp with details front and center.

The soundstage on the PAW S1 is not its strongest point, offering an average soundstage in terms of how far outside of my head it presents. This is counterbalanced by excellent imaging and layering. All that crispness in the detail helps separate each instrument out.

_Edit: it was suggested that the balanced output had a better soundstage. Now that the .07 firmware is out, the volume gets quiet enough to use the balanced output with a sensitive IEM. After some testing, I agree that the soundstage is a little wider on balanced output, but not dramatically so. _

The PAW provides a set of pre-packaged EQ settings. I’m usually not much for DSP, so I didn’t spend a ton of time with these. The “none” setting is where I spent most of my time. The movies, near field and far field options also feel like they add bits of crossfeed which I do appreciate (although crossfeed with a few ms of delay would be even better). Picking one of the crossfeed EFX does help widen the soundstage a little. The “dental” EFX setting is horribly named, but does cut the treble down a few db and helps smooth out the presentation a bit on tracks where it is overwhelming.

The S1 has a soft click in the headphones when switching tracks/albums in some players. I believe this is when the audio stream stops and starts again. Not a problem for gapless playback.

Although the S1 has been plug and play pretty much across the board with laptops, desktops, and Android phones, it’s the first device I’ve found that isn’t 100% reliable with the Apple camera connection kit. It works with some USB-A to USB-C cables and adapters connected to the CCK (including the one that came in the box with the S1), but other cables that work with other DAC/AMPS and the CCK will power the S1, but not transfer audio from the iDevice.

*IEM pairings*
The Lotoo PAW S1 is pretty versatile with IEMs. The almost dead silent background makes super-sensitive multi-BA IEMs like the Andromeda pleasant to use at the lowest volumes, while the unit has enough driving to power dynamic driver and hybrid IEMS at medium volumes. Bassheads will like that the S1 has enough authority to really drive the rumblier IEMs like the Polaris II. I didn’t like them with super-analytical pairings personally.

Select pairing notes:
Campfire Andromeda Gold - This is the least hiss I’ve heard yet on a portable source - almost dead silent to my sensitive-to-hiss ears! The warmth the mechanical crossover adds helps balance the sound of the S1. It’s hard to find good pairings for the Andromeda, so I’m delighted that the S1 fits the bill without needing an IEMatch.

Campfire Polaris II - Love ‘em or hate ‘em, these midbass cannons take a bit of power to fire properly. The S1 gives control to the “extra couple of subwoofers” thump of electronic beats on the Polaris. BOOM.

Dunu DK-2001 - My favorite mid-fi hybrid is really nice with the S1. The technical abilities of the DAC/AMP likely exceed those of the IEM by a hair. For a combined cost of <$500, this sounds amazing if you like slightly v-shaped sound.

JHAudio JH-16 - my trusty old detail monsters are one of the poorer pairings with the S1. Both are more on the analytical side and put details front and center. The combination is aggressive, yet somehow simultaneously flat and sharp. I didn’t spend a lot of time with this pairing because it was borderline unpleasant.

Moondrop Blessing 2 - Another good pairing, the tonal balance and technical capabilities of the Blessing 2 match up nicely with the technical capabilities of the S1. This is a bit more of a neutral pairing than the Dunu above if that’s your sound preference.

Tin HiFi T4 - While not super technical, the T4 has a really pleasant tonality that mellows out the S1. When the two meet in the middle, everything sounds great, at the loss of some of the detail I’ve come to expect so forward on the S1. The result is laid back and easy to relax with.

*Compared to the Fiio BTR5*
From what I understand, the BTR5 has more driving power and might be a better match to someone trying to power over the ear cans. That’s not my use case though, and when I compare IEMs, the S1 emerges a winner with (subjectively) better sound quality.





The Lotoo PAW S1 compared to the Fiio BTR5​
Both devices feature small but informative screens, USB-C, and good industrial design. They feel good in the hand, and generally feel like someone cared deeply about both the outside and the inside during the design and manufacturing process.

Clearly the BTR5 wins hands down for wireless connectivity given that the Lotoo lacks Bluetooth (or a battery) entirely. All the comparisons below were comparing the BTR5 in USB DAC mode, not via Bluetooth.

The BTR5’s 3.5mm SE port is average at best, but the balanced port is actually pretty decent. The Lotoo’s SE port is subjectively a little better than the balanced port on the BTR5. The Fiio is 2.5mm and the Lotoo is 4.4, so depending on your preferred cable, one might edge out the other. If you’re a 3.5mm kind of person, the S1 is a pretty clear winner here.

Both have a forward presentation. The S1 renders finer details than the BTR5, but does so in a way that can come across as sharpness. Depending on your tastes, S1’s handling of detail can be either a good thing, or mildly fatiguing. The S1 has better imaging, and they share roughly the same average soundstage width.

Note that the PAW S1 requires a properly powered USB port to sound its best. When I plugged it into an old iPod Touch via the Apple Camera Connection Kit (puts out a little under a watt of power), the two became much more similar. The reduced power eliminated the edge the S1 had in terms of detail and imaging.

Both have relatively quiet backgrounds - the BTR5 has only a very slight hiss with the Andromeda, compared to virtually none for the S1.The S1 has more power and control in the bass when using the balanced output (and when powered by a decently-powered USB source, but only by a very nominal amount.

If I’m in a situation where plugging in a USB cable is possible, I’d always go for the Lotoo over the Fiio.

*Compared to the Chord Mojo*
I’ll get it out of the way: I prefer the Mojo sound to the S1. That being said, the Mojo isn’t a clear winner - it’s larger, heavier, feels more likely to break if I drop it, lacks a screen, and costs 3-4x as much.





The Lotoo PAW S1 next to the Chord Mojo​
Subjectively, the Mojo’s sound profile tickles my fancy in a way no other DAC/AMP has to date. It articulates the finest details, but does so smoothly and without calling overt attention to them. The Lotoo can render almost if not as much detail, but it’s more in your face about it.

The Mojo has a warmer, more organic presentation - when A/B testing, the S1 comes across as analytical and science-y. All this lush organic rendering does present tradeoffs for the Mojo - the S1 does a better job at separating instruments out and layering them on top of each other in a way that the listener can pick out which is which. The Mojo presents a much wider and deeper soundstage - one of the more average points on the Lotoo. The Mojo has a more ‘natural’ presentation to my ears, particularly with well-recorded music.

An example of the difference in presentation  is Muse’s “Take a Bow” from the Black Holes and Revelations album (Tidal FLAC version)  - the track has some high-frequency hissy white noise in the mix.  The difference in how these devices handle that slight noise floor in a poorly-mastered track is really distinct When listening on a sensitive IEM, the S1 renders this very sharply, with each noisy peak articulated clearly - it’s fairly easy to pick out. On the Mojo it’s still present, but Chord’s rendering technology does a better job at presenting details smoothly so the noise isn't as front and center and the music steals the show - you might even listen to the track casually and not notice the noise. The BTR5 is halfway between the two in terms of how obvious the noise is, although potentially simply because it lacks resolving capability to render it clearly.

I’d never take the Mojo out and about - it’s too large to be convenient for mobile use. If I’m not at home, the Lotoo is good enough. I would have no complaints listening to it in the office or for a pretty extended vacation.


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 16, 2020)

ActuallySparky said:


> *Disclaimer*
> _Reviews are subjective - your mileage may vary. Author is a basshead with older ears and limited hearing above 16k. I tested the PAW S1 with IEM use only, mostly more on the efficient side. As a result I mainly tested the SE output on low gain as I listen at lower volumes and don’t need the OMG POWAH. My experience (and thus this review) does not cover full-sized headphones._
> 
> 
> ...



Agree, nice thorough write up. Balanced to me though sounds better and produces a bigger sound stage.


----------



## musicday (Jul 16, 2020)

My case has arrived in UK.Hopefully I will get it soon. I would say it is a must for anyone thinking of getting the Lotoo Paw S1.


----------



## Rockwell75

Just when I thought I was done stacking...got a couple small pieces of velcro with a mild adhesive and made a little stack with this wonderful new device that's come into my life-- the Lotoo PAW S1...utterly sublime with Solaris.


----------



## ActuallySparky

abitdeef said:


> Agree, nice thorough write up. Balanced to me though sounds better and produces a bigger sound stage.


I did most of my review notes prior to the 007 firmware update that reduced the volume on low gain. I should re-test that - my main issue was that the balanced output was a bit louder than I liked on the 006 firmware with super sensitive IEMs.

That latest update is _brilliant_ for the Andromeda. The granularity of volume control is perfect now.


----------



## abitdeef

Rockwell75 said:


> Just when I thought I was done stacking...got a couple small pieces of velcro with a mild adhesive and made a little stack with this wonderful new device that's come into my life-- the Lotoo PAW S1...utterly sublime with Solaris.



Sweetness!


----------



## Devodonaldson

Rockwell75 said:


> Just when I thought I was done stacking...got a couple small pieces of velcro with a mild adhesive and made a little stack with this wonderful new device that's come into my life-- the Lotoo PAW S1...utterly sublime with Solaris.


You're staking with an n6ii, right? Are you telling us you prefer the paw s1 sound to that of the n6ii?


----------



## musicday

The case for S1 has arrived. The quality is very good for the price and is clearly labeled and offers maximum protection.
A must for every S1 owner.


----------



## rustyvinyl

musicday said:


> The case for S1 has arrived. The quality is very good for the price and is clearly labeled and offers maximum protection.
> A must for every S1 owner.


Yes, the fit is good! No problem with the buttons.
There's a rubbery smell but went away after a few days.


----------



## abitdeef

I see the case is hi res certified also


----------



## musicday

abitdeef said:


> I see the case is hi res certified also


It comes with lots of stickers and I have put it for fun.


----------



## soundblast75

Rockwell75 said:


> Just when I thought I was done stacking...got a couple small pieces of velcro with a mild adhesive and made a little stack with this wonderful new device that's come into my life-- the Lotoo PAW S1...utterly sublime with Solaris.


Hah what's the point, good looking though 👍👍


----------



## Rockwell75

soundblast75 said:


> Hah what's the point, good looking though 👍👍



Blacker background and 300% more battery life.  And thanks!


----------



## Rockwell75

Devodonaldson said:


> You're staking with an n6ii, right? Are you telling us you prefer the paw s1 sound to that of the n6ii?



Yes just slightly due to the blacker background of the S1.


----------



## soundblast75

Rockwell75 said:


> Blacker background and 300% more battery life.  And thanks!


Isn't that a 1k dap there?
Blacker background.. Wow


----------



## abitdeef

soundblast75 said:


> Isn't that a 1k dap there?
> Blacker background.. Wow



I paid 1200 for mine.


----------



## abitdeef

Got another transport for my S1, the M0 worked good but the battery just didn't hold up. This is still a tiny set up but it has a bigger battery and is easier to use.

Love the S1


----------



## mashuto

soundblast75 said:


> Isn't that a 1k dap there?
> Blacker background.. Wow


The n6ii hisses a bit with the Solaris. While the s1 does not.

Though I must admit, a little surprised he is using it that way as you essentially bypass all the audio hardware of the dap that way which sort of defeats the purpose of having an expensive dap in the first place as any device acting as a transport should perform the same with the s1.


----------



## abitdeef

mashuto said:


> The n6ii hisses a bit with the Solaris. While the s1 does not.
> 
> Though I must admit, a little surprised he is using it that way as you essentially bypass all the audio hardware of the dap that way which sort of defeats the purpose of having an expensive dap in the first place as any device acting as a transport should perform the same with the s1.



The big MA battery of n6ii is probably why he's using it. Lots of power for S1 and long lasting.


----------



## mashuto

abitdeef said:


> The big MA battery of n6ii is probably why he's using it. Lots of power for S1 and long lasting.


Fair point. I just wouldn't really think that would be the pair up to use. I have both too, bit the n6ii to me was bought for the audio of it, not just as a transport though it would obviously work just fine as one.


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 17, 2020)

mashuto said:


> Fair point. I just wouldn't really think that would be the pair up to use. I have both too, bit the n6ii to me was bought for the audio of it, not just as a transport though it would obviously work just fine as one.



Yeah I had n6ii, but really didn't take advantage of the swappable audio boards. Plus it was just to big and heavy for me personally. I did like the sound of the stock board though. I did like the sound of the paw 6000 better and probably S1, but I don’t have anything demanding to power.

I think the swappable boards are it's strong suit. I know you can get some really different sound sigs with it.


----------



## soundblast75

Noone of that makes any sense to me, but hey, we are all the king's of spending silly money and thinking we hear so much more, only to go back to a cheap dac to find the truth once more 😅😂😄


----------



## abitdeef

soundblast75 said:


> Noone of that makes any sense to me, but hey, we are all the king's of spending silly money and thinking we hear so much more, only to go back to a cheap dac to find the truth once more 😅😂😄



Tis true, not alot of difference between a 200 dollar dap and a 1200 dollar one, especially if you've got easy to drive stuff. Always a better return on buying better iems and cans, to a point..

Although you do usually get better build, screen and overall more features. But lotoo did a good job with the S1, it doesn't sound like your typical dongle or small dap. Good engineering there.


----------



## JimJim

I wonder those cable works with paw s1? To minimise the plug in and out.


----------



## jsmiller58

JimJim said:


> I wonder those cable works with paw s1? To minimise the plug in and out.


Read the comments section on Indiegogo...  I don’t think the cables will work with the S1 or anything else since, well, they would have to exist first...


----------



## Rockwell75

abitdeef said:


> Got another transport for my S1, the M0 worked good but the battery just didn't hold up. This is still a tiny set up but it has a bigger battery and is easier to use.
> 
> Love the S1



Where can one get that cable?



mashuto said:


> The n6ii hisses a bit with the Solaris. While the s1 does not.
> 
> Though I must admit, a little surprised he is using it that way as you essentially bypass all the audio hardware of the dap that way which sort of defeats the purpose of having an expensive dap in the first place as any device acting as a transport should perform the same with the s1.



I'm honeymooning it right now as I'm enjoying the S1-- whether I'll continue to run the setup this way indefinitely remains to be seen.  Getting a solid 2-3 days of moderate-heavy use out of a charge is pretty enticing though.


----------



## mashuto

Rockwell75 said:


> Where can one get that cable?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm honeymooning it right now as I'm enjoying the S1-- whether I'll continue to run the setup this way indefinitely remains to be seen.  Getting a solid 2-3 days of moderate-heavy use out of a charge is pretty enticing though.


Yea I get that. Using what you have available. I think for me though if I ended deciding the s1 was what I wanted I would likely look to sell the n6 and find a cheaper device to use just as a transport as a $1300 (plus motherboard costs) is a whole lot just for a something that will end up as a transport only.


----------



## Rockwell75

mashuto said:


> Yea I get that. Using what you have available. I think for me though if I ended deciding the s1 was what I wanted I would likely look to sell the n6 and find a cheaper device to use just as a transport as a $1300 (plus motherboard costs) is a whole lot just for a something that will end up as a transport only.



Fair enough.  Like I said though, early days...not sure yet how this is going to pan out.


----------



## AlexCBSN

Rockwell75 said:


> Fair enough.  Like I said though, early days...not sure yet how this is going to pan out.


I own both and even though i wish i carried the n6II everywhere, it is bulky and runs quite warm, however i love e01 and wouldnt sell it yet, the s1 is the perfect to go device along with m hilidac beam2, both are excellent portable devices.


----------



## Rockwell75

AlexCBSN said:


> I own both and even though i wish i carried the n6II everywhere, it is bulky and runs quite warm, however i love e01 and wouldnt sell it yet, the s1 is the perfect to go device along with m hilidac beam2, both are excellent portable devices.



I'm not selling anything yet.  Unfortunately I dropped (or rather my cat dropped) my n6ii once and it has a couple scratches on it, which means the most I could hope for would be selling at a tremendous loss.  For that reason alone I'll probably wind up keeping it around.  I'm actually eyeing the e02 board right now with the thought of migrating to 4.4, and I'm also curious what Cayin has in store with future boards.  The n6ii will likely still be my main portable player with the S1 primarily used with my Macbook.


----------



## jsmiller58

Rockwell75 said:


> Where can one get that cable?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm honeymooning it right now as I'm enjoying the S1-- whether I'll continue to run the setup this way indefinitely remains to be seen.  Getting a solid 2-3 days of moderate-heavy use out of a charge is pretty enticing though.


It is great to hear (pun intended!) that the S1 gives that level of SQ!  I only have an R6 Pro and an LG v30 to compare it against and do like the S1 quite a bit.  Have a few dongles to find new home for as I like the S1 too!  (9038s gen 2, iL-DSP miniDSP, Hidizs S8)


----------



## AlexCBSN (Jul 18, 2020)

jsmiller58 said:


> It is great to hear (pun intended!) that the S1 gives that level of SQ!  I only have an R6 Pro and an LG v30 to compare it against and do like the S1 quite a bit.  Have a few dongles to find new home for as I like the S1 too!  (9038s gen 2, iL-DSP miniDSP, Hidizs S8)


The new yinlvmei is quite good looking good in specs, might as well sell a couple if reviews are positive. S1 is a whole level on its own


----------



## abitdeef

Rockwell75 said:


> Where can one get that cable?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm honeymooning it right now as I'm enjoying the S1-- whether I'll continue to run the setup this way indefinitely remains to be seen.  Getting a solid 2-3 days of moderate-heavy use out of a charge is pretty enticing though.



The cable is here:

https://wooaudio.com/accessories/wooaudio-usb-cable

Very nice cable.


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 18, 2020)

The thing with dacs and daps is well, how good the company can make a good audio circuit. Any modern dac has numbers that are off the charts as far as snr and thd+noise. A well implemented single dac 3.5 out can beat a multi dac balanced out using so called flagship dacs.

Clean power supply and a well designed output circuit and good lpf implementation are more important than what dacs are used. The simplest most direct circuit is always more efficient. What you're getting with bigger more $$$ daps is more power capacity basically.

Now some dacs did/do have kind of a 'house' sound, but this can be negated with tuning. Multibit dacs (BB) are kind of the exception, very warm/analog sounding. They have their disadvantages though, less efficient and higher noise than a sigma delta dac.

But all in all I don't put too much stock in what or how many dacs are used. But it does seem with a dac with a balanced out the 3.5 out is usually lackluster. Even volume matched that extra power adds some bite and depth usually and usually the crosstalk is lower on the balanced out making the stereo seperation better. They also could get the same performance with a well designed SE out. I do like the 4.4 jack just because it's robust.


----------



## omlettes

chaotic_angel said:


> S1 does well pair with Final Audio E4000 with spinfit cp100 tips. Neutral and clean overal with still maintain warm sound sig on E4000



Do you think they could power the E5000s, that require a bit more juice?


----------



## omlettes

If somebody has tried the PAW S1 and a Sony Walkman NW-A40/A45/A50/A55/A100/A105, how did you find the sound quality compare?  Big difference?  Medium difference?  Small difference/comparable?


----------



## abitdeef

omlettes said:


> If somebody has tried the PAW S1 and a Sony Walkman NW-A40/A45/A50/A55/A100/A105, how did you find the sound quality compare?  Big difference?  Medium difference?  Small difference/comparable?



Medium diffrence, S1 is more neutral and has better layering and depth. Using balanced out on S1. And of course more power from S1. This is vs nw a105.


----------



## omlettes

abitdeef said:


> Medium diffrence, S1 is more neutral and has better layering and depth. Using balanced out on S1. And of course more power from S1. This is vs nw a105.



thanks for the reply. Another question diverging from the topic slightly, but how much should I expend to spend for an MMCX (?) balanced cable for my IEMs so I can use the balanced output?  I have read and believe cable differences are minimal or inaudible as long as the cable isn’t busted or absolute garbage. How much should I expect to spend for a balanced cable that would do this DAC and my $250 IEMs justice?


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 19, 2020)

omlettes said:


> thanks for the reply. Another question diverging from the topic slightly, but how much should I expend to spend for an MMCX (?) balanced cable for my IEMs so I can use the balanced output?  I have read and believe cable differences are minimal or inaudible as long as the cable isn’t busted or absolute garbage. How much should I expect to spend for a balanced cable that would do this DAC and my $250 IEMs justice?



I think you can get a decent balanced cable for say around 40-50 bucks. I'm using the balnced cable that my iems came with and a 4.4 adapter and it sounds fantastic. I myself would rather spend money on lems/cans and source before cables.

Most cables cheap and expensive seem to have the same continuity performance. As in 0-1 ohms resistance. Linsoul audio has decent priced balanced mmcx cables. I’ve used their tripowin cables before and they were nice.

I mean obviously you can spend thousands on cables, but as long as it transmits current effectively- which most seem to do you're golden.

 And the nw a105 is a good sounding little dap and to me has it's own sound sig. But S1 keeps things towards neutral and has excellent seperation and tonal accuracy. It doesn't really add anything but maybe a touch in the low end and maybe a smidgen in the mids to avoid sounding too dry. 

But it's very well behaved and natural sounding.


----------



## chaotic_angel

omlettes said:


> Do you think they could power the E5000s, that require a bit more juice?



Sorry never have E5000


----------



## dleblanc343

abitdeef said:


> Got another transport for my S1, the M0 worked good but the battery just didn't hold up. This is still a tiny set up but it has a bigger battery and is easier to use.
> 
> Love the S1


No way man, I thought I was the only Ozric Tentacles fan out here


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 19, 2020)

dleblanc343 said:


> No way man, I thought I was the only Ozric Tentacles fan out here



Nope, there are 2 of us  They always help me 'get a feel' for a new dap or dac/amp.


----------



## Damz87

Still honeymooning with the S1 

The BLON BL-03 sounds great with it


----------



## jeffri

omlettes said:


> Do you think they could power the E5000s, that require a bit more juice?



My friend have E5000 and he tried the S1 with it using the balanced out. It works fine, even better than BTR5 according to him.


----------



## Keko123

Does anyone know if any firmware updates will add line out for speakers?

Regards


----------



## musicday

Keko123 said:


> Does anyone know if any firmware updates will add line out for speakers?
> 
> Regards


That's a very good suggestion. Will be great if that feature could be implemented. Cotact Lotoo directly and see what they have to say.


----------



## twister6

Keko123 said:


> Does anyone know if any firmware updates will add line out for speakers?
> 
> Regards



Can't speak for Lotoo, but I seriously doubt since the intent of S1 design was to be portable and to use it with a smartphone, and to give you hi-res DAP-like sound quality with your earphones/headphones, rather than driving external DAC/amp from line out.  Especially, since LO at max output will drain more battery from your portable source.

Can you drive your speakers from HO of S1?


----------



## abitdeef

I concur, the little e-bay silicone case is nice.


----------



## musicday

abitdeef said:


> I concur, the little e-bay silicone case is nice.


The case is very well made, don't forget to add the HiRez sticker :


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 20, 2020)

musicday said:


> The case is very well made, don't forget to add the HiRez sticker :



Oh yeah I have special plans for those babies  come here puppies! I mean how many did they include? Like 20?


----------



## chaotic_angel

abitdeef said:


> I concur, the little e-bay silicone case is nice.



@jeffri bro, buy 2 lah, send me one hahaha


----------



## bnupy

I got mine today but after trying to get my first firmware put inside the device, its not working anymore any suggestions anyone ?


----------



## BobJS (Jul 21, 2020)

My first evening with these was with the Solaris, and while I thought they were objectively OK, I didn't see what all the fuss was about ... certainly not on a par with DX200 Amp8EX .

Last night I used the andromeda, and it was a completely different story.  I thought the airy holography was something special.  I don't know if there's any rhyme or reason to this other than the fickleness of hearing and all the biases we subconsciously apply.

I'm using them out of a Pioneer XDP-300R through UAPP, though I don't think that matters much.


----------



## musicday

bnupy said:


> I got mine today but after trying to get my first firmware put inside the device, its not working anymore any suggestions anyone ?


What firmware did you try to install?


----------



## abitdeef

BobJS said:


> My first evening with these was with the Solaris, and while I thought they were objectively OK, I didn't see what all the fuss was about ... certainly not on a par with DX200 Amp8EX .
> 
> Last night I used the andromeda, and it was a completely different story.  I thought the airy holography was something special.  I don't know if there's any rhyme or reason to this other than the fickleness of hearing and all the biases we subconsciously apply.
> 
> I'm using them out of a Pioneer XDP-300R through UAPP, though I don't think that matters much.



 With my iems it also sounds very 3d- holographic what ever you want to call it. 

Definitely not as powerful as amp 8 and more neutral. From what I remember with that amp the 220 sounded more musical and warmer.


----------



## abitdeef

musicday said:


> What firmware did you try to install?



Also could try a reset, although I'm not sure how to do one.


----------



## jeffri

chaotic_angel said:


> @jeffri bro, buy 2 lah, send me one hahaha



Never really like silicone case unfortunately. Someone will inevitable make leather case, hopefully... (ddhifi or dignis, come on)


----------



## abitdeef

jeffri said:


> Never really like silicone case unfortunately. Someone will inevitable make leather case, hopefully... (ddhifi or dignis, come on)



Lol I'm not a huge fan either, but for now it seems ok.  at least it seems like a less 'sticky' silicone and is well crafted. But I'd like a dignis or dd or miter case. 

I hate silicone that picks up every piece of lint or hair - got dogs. Actually for 10 bucks im impressed with it.


----------



## musicday

jeffri said:


> Never really like silicone case unfortunately. Someone will inevitable make leather case, hopefully... (ddhifi or dignis, come on)


I didn't like it either but this is perfect, especially if you drop it, shock absorber.


----------



## bnupy

musicday said:


> What firmware did you try to install?


1.0.0.7


----------



## jeffri

abitdeef said:


> Lol I'm not a huge fan either, but for now it seems ok.  at least it seems like a less 'sticky' silicone and is well crafted. But I'd like a dignis or dd or miter case.
> 
> I hate silicone that picks up every piece of lint or hair - got dogs. Actually for 10 bucks im impressed with it.





musicday said:


> I didn't like it either but this is perfect, especially if you drop it, shock absorber.



Oh, good to know that it is less sticky. That is my main issue with these type of case, collecting lint and dust like there's no tomorrow. Looks like a better case than I thought.


----------



## abitdeef

bnupy said:


> 1.0.0.7



Did you look at the manual for a reset? Did it say upgrade successful when you dropped the update file in the folder? Is your S1 totally dead? You could always contact looto tech support.


----------



## musicday

Also when you try to connect it to the computer, does it recognize it? So you use Windows or Mac? Give us more details so we can try and help you.


----------



## bnupy

musicday said:


> Also when you try to connect it to the computer, does it recognize it? So you use Windows or Mac? Give us more details so we can try and help you.


I used the 1.0.0.7 update through a MacBook as the OS and I put the COE file into the PAW S1 storage. I saw the 'successful' message on it. But after that happened it gets ejected. And it starts saying the "USB application is using too much power" (paraphrasing). It does get heated up and doesn't get sensed by by either my  MacBook or my phone


----------



## bnupy

I don't think the 


abitdeef said:


> Did you look at the manual for a reset? Did it say upgrade successful when you dropped the update file in the folder? Is your S1 totally dead? You could always contact looto tech support.


I don't think I found any way to reset it in the manual, except a summary of all the buttons


----------



## abitdeef

bnupy said:


> I don't think the
> 
> I don't think I found any way to reset it in the manual, except a summary of all the buttons



Has to be a way I would think to reset it.. did you try using it via USB ver1 by holding the fn button whilst connecting it? 

Unfortunately a lot of these products don't play well with macs. I booted apple yonks ago  I'd shoot an email to lotoo tech support.


----------



## twister6

bnupy said:


> I used the 1.0.0.7 update through a MacBook as the OS and I put the COE file into the PAW S1 storage. I saw the 'successful' message on it. But after that happened it gets ejected. And it starts saying the "USB application is using too much power" (paraphrasing). It does get heated up and doesn't get sensed by by either my  MacBook or my phone



Did it ever worked for you or stopped after the update?  Have no idea about MACs, and only have a single iPhone in the house, my daughters iPhone 11 which works fine after the update.  Can you connect it to windows computer or android phone, just to be sure S1 is still working ok?


----------



## bnupy

twister6 said:


> Did it ever worked for you or stopped after the update?  Have no idea about MACs, and only have a single iPhone in the house, my daughters iPhone 11 which works fine after the update.  Can you connect it to windows computer or android phone, just to be sure S1 is still working ok?


It doesn't work for my iPhone 11 after update. I don't think it works anywhere now after the update. tried contacting support. waiting and seeing.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I am using S1 on Mac running latest OS and Microsoft Surface Laptop 3 running latest Windows 10. Zero issues. I updated to v1.0.0.6 in Windows without issues. The update works the same on macOS.


----------



## musicday

Can you try installing the firmware update again but using a Windows laptop and see what happens? Maybe the firmware didn't install properly and now is bricked!?


----------



## bnupy

Dont 


musicday said:


> Can you try installing the firmware update again but using a Windows laptop and see what happens? Maybe the firmware didn't install properly and now is bricked!?


Don't have any access to a windows computer to try that sadly


----------



## abitdeef

Hi res stickers don't stick well to dogs, they ate most of them  dogs is no fun.


----------



## jsmiller58

abitdeef said:


> Hi res stickers don't stick well to dogs, they ate most of them  dogs is no fun.


Well, much better a hi-res dog than a lossy dog!


----------



## abitdeef

jsmiller58 said:


> Well, much better a hi-res dog than a lossy dog!



Yes for sure, I'd say his chihuahua 'chirp' bark is well into the 50 kHz range  ouch!


----------



## AlexCBSN

[QUOTE="bnupy, post: 15753523, member: 534564

Don't have any access to a windows computer to try that sadly
[/QUOTE]
or just to check, try starting it with the "firmware" update mode (pushing the fn button before pluggin) and see if you can update it again, maybe something went wrong the first time, theres another mode that disables some features for older devices like game consoles, dont remember how to get it though (should be either vol + or vol -  buttong being pushed before plugging in) should try to see if it gets detected and then update the firmware again


----------



## musicday (Jul 22, 2020)

Let us know if you managed to get it working and if Lotoo got back to you with an answer.


----------



## ActuallySparky

abitdeef said:


> Has to be a way I would think to reset it.. did you try using it via USB ver1 by holding the fn button whilst connecting it?
> 
> Unfortunately a lot of these products don't play well with macs. I booted apple yonks ago  I'd shoot an email to lotoo tech support.


Counterpoint: I use my PAW S1 almost exclusively with a Mac, including firmware updates. Worked like a charm so far for me, but YMMV


----------



## abitdeef (Jul 22, 2020)

ActuallySparky said:


> Counterpoint: I use my PAW S1 almost exclusively with a Mac, including firmware updates. Worked like a charm so far for me, but YMMV



I'm talking about macs in general with daps, not S1. I've read so many complaints over time about macs not working correctly with many daps. I quit because of battery problems I had with several MacBook pros. Nothing to do with daps.

I always had a PC to use with daps. So I never bothered trying a Mac with any of my audio devices. I do think I tried Sony software yonks ago that was supposed to be Mac compatible, but didn't work for me.

I'm just going by how many times in reviews, say on amazon, there's angry mac owners that can't get their gear to work properly.

Hopefully he gets the issue sorted, since other users have no problems. Lol don't take what I say Personally about macs. I'm sure the software has improved. I've got a gaming laptop anyways, kind of limited to pc if you want that.

Anyways..... humour 4 today


----------



## bnupy

musicday said:


> Let us know if you managed to get it working and if Lotoo got back to you with an answer.


sort of went ahead asked my retailer to give me a replacement. so fingers crossed


----------



## musicday

bnupy said:


> sort of went ahead asked my retailer to give me a replacement. so fingers crossed


That's better. Best wishes to you and hopefully everything will be alright.


----------



## hakunamakaka (Jul 23, 2020)

Well for iphone users be aware that Lotoo S1 will have background noise/EMI  if you will use mobile data. For me it makes S1 unlistenable. With WIFI only S1 is nearly silent, plane mode dead silent. I've ordered EMI shielding tape+wooaudio cable, will try to shield an inner shell of S1 and see how it goes then. I've read that S1 can be modded as well by Remi mode, has anyone else tried it ? after the mode is there really SQ improvement or power from this tiny dongle ?


----------



## jsmiller58

hakunamakaka said:


> Well for iphone users be aware that Lotoo S1 will have background noise/EMI  if you will use mobile data. For me it makes S1 unlistenable. With WIFI only S1 is nearly silent, plane mode dead silent. I've ordered EMI shielding tape+wooaudio cable, will try to shield an inner shell of S1 and see how it goes then. I've read that S1 can be modded as well by Remi mode, has anyone else tried it ? after the mode is there really SQ improvement or power from this tiny dongle ?


Not just iPhone.  My Android phone/S1 combo behaves the same way.  Seems to be a common problem with some usbc dongle dac/amps.


----------



## bystander

Hello, users. My questions are about  permanently paring this device with a PC. Does S1 have any input lag or delay during video/audio playback? Or cases when audio and video are not in sync in a video player audio exclusive mode and in a browser? Is it simply plug & play or proprietary driver is needed? I'm waiting for it to be aviliable locally and wanted to ask just in case.


----------



## ActuallySparky

bystander said:


> Hello, users. My questions are about  permanently paring this device with a PC. Does S1 have any input lag or delay during video/audio playback? Or cases when audio and video are not in sync in a video player audio exclusive mode and in a browser? Is it simply plug & play or proprietary driver is needed? I'm waiting for it to be aviliable locally and wanted to ask just in case.


There might be a few ms lag, but it's not noticeable. I don't watch many movies (nor any in a browser), but I do a lot of conference calls, and haven't noticed any lip/audio sync issues.


----------



## musicday

Even with older operating systems such as Windows 7 will work, class A USB in general. There is no lag at all when watching movie or video music. I use mine exclusively with that and is a joy.
Have no stress, Lotoo Paw S1 Usb DAC is progress.


----------



## abitdeef

bystander said:


> Hello, users. My questions are about  permanently paring this device with a PC. Does S1 have any input lag or delay during video/audio playback? Or cases when audio and video are not in sync in a video player audio exclusive mode and in a browser? Is it simply plug & play or proprietary driver is needed? I'm waiting for it to be aviliable locally and wanted to ask just in case.



I just watched some of the Banana Splits movie and audio was perfect. Not in a browser though just with MP. Gotta watch that movie.


----------



## musicday

Coming soon :
Maybe a leather case for the S1?


----------



## abitdeef

musicday said:


> Coming soon :
> Maybe a leather case for the S1?



Is this from lotoo?


----------



## musicday

Yes !


----------



## Nostoi

Loving this bad boy with the WP900.


----------



## musicday

Nostoi said:


> Loving this bad boy with the WP900.


Nice photo. How do they work with movies and are the earpads real leather and easily removed?


----------



## Nostoi

musicday said:


> Nice photo. How do they work with movies and are the earpads real leather and easily removed?


Synthetic leather, but very comfortable. I'm not sure about removing them, to be honest. But I know they're replaceable and from appearance, they look the normal ZMF style "fold over" style of replaceable pad. Not really used them much for movies, but they're excellent all-rounders. Very good detail retrieval and separation. 53mm driver in a small package.


----------



## abitdeef

musicday said:


> Yes !



Lotoo S1 pro silver edition lol.


----------



## jeffri

Nostoi said:


> Loving this bad boy with the WP900.



Lovely, the Audio Technica is a beauty


----------



## abitdeef

Nostoi said:


> Synthetic leather, but very comfortable. I'm not sure about removing them, to be honest. But I know they're replaceable and from appearance, they look the normal ZMF style "fold over" style of replaceable pad. Not really used them much for movies, but they're excellent all-rounders. Very good detail retrieval and separation. 53mm driver in a small package.



Damn I'm tempted, I need really comfy light cans and these seem to fit the bill. Looks like they're easy to drive too. I bet it sounds good with the S1


----------



## Nostoi

abitdeef said:


> Damn I'm tempted, I need really comfy light cans and these seem to fit the bill. Looks like they're easy to drive too. I bet it sounds good with the S1


I can't speak highly enough about them, as subscribers to the WP900 thread know too well. Very easy to drive, I'm on about 65-75 on high gain. Perfect for the S1.


----------



## abitdeef

Nostoi said:


> I can't speak highly enough about them, as subscribers to the WP900 thread know too well. Very easy to drive, I'm on about 65-75 on high gain. Perfect for the S1.



Lol I was just reading that thread,


----------



## hakunamakaka

Finally my BT Shanling UP4 have arrived and I was comparing it against S1 today using Earsonics EM10 and oppo pm3 hp. Honestly I was surprised with the quality that UP4 is able to push over bluetooth. Biggest S1 advantage over UP4 is EQ presets, but UP4 wins easily in portability/power. My ears are not much trained, but with None EQ preset I can't spot the difference between UP4 and S1 from any of my hp and I really tried. Though using EQ as dental/near field it gives me intimate, but better sense of space around me. It seems that the future lies in wireless connection and I was able to test only AAC codec over BT as I'm stuck with iphone. No EMI/messing with cables and you are free to use your phone. I'm really going over the thought to sell S1. Though the EQ on S1 is nice. I was not fan of any EQ in the past, but S1 made me change my mind and If Lotoo would be able to release something like S1 with BT connectivity, preset/custom EQ availability,  that would be a huge  leap in the current portable dac/amp market.


----------



## jibberish

I finally got my silicone cover, now I know what you all were referring to about the hi res stickers 😂


----------



## musicday

LG V50 : movies and music are a treat with S1 and Blon BL-03 16 core copper cable 4.4 mm balanced.
Keep it simple ( thin wallet ). 👍


----------



## ayang02

Just received the new S1 carrying case.



That cable storage compartment is my favorite part of this case.


----------



## abitdeef

musicday said:


> LG V50 : movies and music are a treat with S1 and Blon BL-03 16 core copper cable 4.4 mm balanced.
> Keep it simple ( thin wallet ). 👍



You have a combo there that sounds way above it's asking price, that's for sure  loved the sound of the blons, just couldn't take the weight- my ears are sensitive.


----------



## abitdeef

ayang02 said:


> Just received the new S1 carrying case.
> 
> 
> 
> That cable storage compartment is my favorite part of this case.



That looks really nice, now lotoo how about a leather fitted case too.


----------



## soas

ayang02 said:


> Just received the new S1 carrying case.
> 
> 
> 
> That cable storage compartment is my favorite part of this case.



Really like that, for the same reason. Where did you get it? Can’t find it anywhere


----------



## ayang02

soas said:


> Really like that, for the same reason. Where did you get it? Can’t find it anywhere



I got this from a local store that carries Lotoo products. You can probably ask the store/website you got your S1 from, since this case is also a Lotoo product.

Oh and this case comes in three colors: orange, green, and black. Mine is black.


----------



## rcoleman1

ayang02 said:


> Just received the new S1 carrying case.
> 
> 
> 
> That cable storage compartment is my favorite part of this case.


Hope this makes it stateside soon.


----------



## jsmiller58

Not quite sure I understand the allure / utility of the leather case...  I suppose it will protect the S1 if you keep it in a bag/pack while not using it.  But the silicone case that some have been using seems to be good for that and has the benefit that it can be used when the S1 is in use.  But anyway it is nice to see protective accessories for our audio tools!


----------



## musicday

The leather case is beautiful, but my silicone case is perfect for me. Is great and offer good protection.


----------



## ayang02

jsmiller58 said:


> Not quite sure I understand the allure / utility of the leather case...  I suppose it will protect the S1 if you keep it in a bag/pack while not using it.  But the silicone case that some have been using seems to be good for that and has the benefit that it can be used when the S1 is in use.  But anyway it is nice to see protective accessories for our audio tools!



The difference for me is this carrying case can also store the Lotoo OTG cable. I actually have some other OTG cables that are better performers but unfortunately doesn’t fit this case due to their thicker/longer size. Now I wish for a bigger leather case so I can fit a S1 with a fitted silicone case in it plus my other thicker OTG cable. But for now, this case will work and I won’t forget about that OTG cable 😁


----------



## twister6

musicday said:


> The leather case is beautiful, but my silicone case is perfect for me. Is great and offer good protection.



No glove, no love


----------



## Palash

ASIO4ALL V2 in foobar working nicely with PAW -S1


----------



## corgifall (Jul 27, 2020)

Anyone else getting clipping when using one of the eq options on over ears? I get clipping on my planars but none on my dynamics or iems. It happens on any of the eq options the low end sounds distorted and clips.

Edit: I found a few dynamic over ears that also don't like the eq and clip as well.


----------



## xkoo

does anyone have lotoo paw s1 connected to A&K SP1000 DAP?


----------



## twister6

xkoo said:


> does anyone have lotoo paw s1 connected to A&K SP1000 DAP?



I was getting intermittent connection; I think SPK is more sensitive to extra current draw from its USB-C port.


----------



## 8481

Case arrived with stickers in all its glory.


----------



## bluestorm1992

soas said:


> Really like that, for the same reason. Where did you get it? Can’t find it anywhere


The case is now available at Musicteck for $25!


----------



## Nostoi

bluestorm1992 said:


> The case is now available at Musicteck for $25!


For EU folks, I'm told Wifimedia will have the case shortly.


----------



## soas

bluestorm1992 said:


> The case is now available at Musicteck for $25!



Great, thanks for the heads up!

I did send them an e-mail about the case on their webform, but they didn't get back to me. Probably were too busy, and they in all likelihood were working on stocking that case anyway.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Jul 29, 2020)

soas said:


> Great, thanks for the heads up!
> 
> I did send them an e-mail about the case on their webform, but they didn't get back to me. Probably were too busy, and they in all likelihood were working on stocking that case anyway.


Great! Not sure whether you have been able to find this - the link to the purchase webpage:

https://shop.musicteck.com/collecti...oo-paw-s1-leather-case?variant=32276928135230

I ordered it in the early afternoon and they have already sent it out.


----------



## soas

bluestorm1992 said:


> Great! Not sure whether you have been able to find this - the link to the purchase webpage:
> 
> https://shop.musicteck.com/collecti...oo-paw-s1-leather-case?variant=32276928135230
> 
> I ordered it in the early afternoon and they have already sent it out.



I phrased my post poorly, oops.

I inquired with Musicteck about the case when a member shared it here, since at the time (1+ week ago?) they didn’t carry it. 

Not trying to take credit, of course! Just interesting timing


----------



## Tchoupitoulas

Does anyone know what the output impedance of the S1 is, please? I ask because my google sleuthing skills have failed me and I don't see this listed in any of the documentation. (I ask because I'm considering pairing it with an Andromeda).


----------



## bluestorm1992

Tchoupitoulas said:


> Does anyone know what the output impedance of the S1 is, please? I ask because my google sleuthing skills have failed me and I don't see this listed in any of the documentation. (I ask because I'm considering pairing it with an Andromeda).


Should be 32Ω for both 3.5 and 4.4 output.


----------



## jsmiller58

bluestorm1992 said:


> Should be 32Ω for both 3.5 and 4.4 output.


32 ohms?  That would be disastrous.  No way it is that high.


----------



## bluestorm1992

jsmiller58 said:


> 32 ohms?  That would be disastrous.  No way it is that high.


It drives my LCD i4 surprisingly well, although it is still not powerful enough to fully drive the sony ier-z1r.


----------



## bluestorm1992

jsmiller58 said:


> 32 ohms?  That would be disastrous.  No way it is that high.


BTW, I read it somewhere (I think from their blog) that the reason behind this is the power supply. Since the S1 does not have its own power source and relies on either the laptop or phone to supply it, this actually allows the S1 to give pretty powerful output. This also means that it works better with laptops if you need to efficiently drive some IEMs.


----------



## ayang02

The specs only mention output power/channel at 32 Ohms for single-ended and balanced output. That is different from saying the output impedance is 32 Ohms. Need to ask Lotoo about the actual output impedance numbers but that number shouldn’t be high at all. I’m guessing < 1 Ohm?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Jul 30, 2020)

ayang02 said:


> The specs only mention output power/channel at 32 Ohms for single-ended and balanced output. That is different from saying the output impedance is 32 Ohms. Need to ask Lotoo about the actual output impedance numbers but that number shouldn’t be high at all. I’m guessing < 1 Ohm?


My apologies if I give the wrong answer; not good at telling the difference between these parameters. I talked with the people from Lotoo, and they said they will come back with an answer shortly.

Was just told by them that the S1 can certainly drive the Andromeda.


----------



## Tchoupitoulas

bluestorm1992 said:


> Was just told by them that the S1 can certainly drive the Andromeda.


Thank you so much for inquiring for us, I very much appreciate it! The issue isn't the ability to drive the Andromeda; rather, it has to do with the Andro's impedance curve - sources below 1 ohm tend to have a much more prominent bass emphasis; a slightly higher output impedance, ca. 1-3 ohms, makes for a better balanced presentation. 

Thanks again for looking into this, it's very kind of you.


----------



## BobJS

Tchoupitoulas said:


> Does anyone know what the output impedance of the S1 is, please? I ask because my google sleuthing skills have failed me and I don't see this listed in any of the documentation. (I ask because I'm considering pairing it with an Andromeda).


That's crazy. I was just searching for this information not 2 hours ago. And it doesn't seem to be published anywhere.  As was already pointed out,  that 32 ohm reference was not the output impedance.  Looking forward to finding the value.


----------



## musicday

I don't think is bigger then 1 ohm, maybe someone can measure themselves.


----------



## BobJS

While I'm here ... I have a question about the PAW S1 specifically with the DX220.  I asked over in that forum -- no answer yet.  Does anyone know if the DX220 can be run with no amp module plugged in so as to extend battery life if I'm using the S1 ?


----------



## deafdoorknob

It uses OPA1622 for amplification, most daps that use the same chip has a Z out of less than 2 ohms (usually 1.4-1.7 ohms), for both SE and BAL outputs


----------



## SQ13

Palash said:


> ASIO4ALL V2 in foobar working nicely with PAW -S1



Hi, do you mind advising how I can set up AISO4ALL in Foobar?
I have downloaded/installed AISO4ALL but dont see it in the Windows Device Manager. I checked the Playback Output under Foobar and dont see the AISO.
Do I need to install additional component from Foobar?

The S1 output states 44.1k even though I selected a 192k file. Any idea how I can set Foobar to run at the correct frequency.

Did anyone Neutron player with S1?
Thanks for your help in advance


----------



## letlive

I'm planning to use the S1 with my DAP (XDP-300R). Do the S1 will get enough power from the micro USB port?


----------



## Palash

SQ13 said:


> Hi, do you mind advising how I can set up AISO4ALL in Foobar?
> I have downloaded/installed AISO4ALL but dont see it in the Windows Device Manager. I checked the Playback Output under Foobar and dont see the AISO.
> Do I need to install additional component from Foobar?
> 
> ...


Before installing AISO for all install 'ASIO Support' component in foobar. Just search it and install it. Once installed it go to foobar- file-preferences- components- and see the asio support component, now install it.


----------



## BobJS

letlive said:


> I'm planning to use the S1 with my DAP (XDP-300R). Do the S1 will get enough power from the micro USB port?


I've successfully used it from my XDP-300R


----------



## bnupy

I got the replacement for the S1. It works with the 1.0.0.6 firmware update (phew)
I've liked the Movie setting for music when listening with the er2xr. 
Anybody know have what Movie Eq emphasizes or any FR diagram on the emphasis?


----------



## HiFlight

bnupy said:


> I got the replacement for the S1. It works with the 1.0.0.6 firmware update (phew)
> I've liked the Movie setting for music when listening with the er2xr.
> Anybody know have what Movie Eq emphasizes or any FR diagram on the emphasis?


See post 695!


----------



## musicday

bnupy said:


> I got the replacement for the S1. It works with the 1.0.0.6 firmware update (phew)
> I've liked the Movie setting for music when listening with the er2xr.
> Anybody know have what Movie Eq emphasizes or any FR diagram on the emphasis?


You need to update to 1.0.0.7, also do you know what exactly was wrong with the previous S1 you had?


----------



## bnupy

musicday said:


> You need to update to 1.0.0.7, also do you know what exactly was wrong with the previous S1 you had?


I couldn't narrow down what happened with the previous one. I've upgraded 1.0.0.7 works it seems


----------



## letitgoo

Hi All,

Does anyone of you can compare the lotoo paw gold touch with the paw s1? I am thinking of buying lpgt and currently have the paw s1.

Thanks in advance for the feedback.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Aug 1, 2020)

letitgoo said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Does anyone of you can compare the lotoo paw gold touch with the paw s1? I am thinking of buying lpgt and currently have the paw s1.
> 
> Thanks in advance for the feedback.


I happen to have both of them (and paw 6000 as well). What specifically do you want to know about?

I think the LPGT is hands down one of the best purchases I have ever made. Very smooth and clean user interface (much better than Android-based systems in my mind). Powerful enough to fully drive the Sony IER-Z1R. If you already have a decent music collection (in SD cards), I think LPGT is the best option in the market right now.

I think the S1 is more for casual uses especially with streaming services. It can drive most headphones pretty efficiently. In terms of sound, the LPGT is a step up in many aspects, but it is also substantially more expensive. I think the difference between S1 and LPGT is most salient when you have IEMs that really require power to drive. You will really get to appreciate the IEM with the  LPGT.

Ultimately for the usability, the S1 and LPGT are very different products. The LPGT is an standalone music player while the S1 is not. The S1 is more targeted to be used with streaming services. The usb-dac function in the LPGT is also great, but sometimes when I just want to listen to Spotify on my computer, I will plug in the S1 and start listening right away.


----------



## letlive

BobJS said:


> I've successfully used it from my XDP-300R


Can you compare them regarding the sound quality?


----------



## ActuallySparky

Tchoupitoulas said:


> Does anyone know what the output impedance of the S1 is, please? I ask because my google sleuthing skills have failed me and I don't see this listed in any of the documentation. (I ask because I'm considering pairing it with an Andromeda).


I don't know the OI, but it pairs wonderfully with the Andromeda Gold. Inky black background, nice driving power (when powered by a 2.1amp+ port)


----------



## SQ13

Palash said:


> Before installing AISO for all install 'ASIO Support' component in foobar. Just search it and install it. Once installed it go to foobar- file-preferences- components- and see the asio support component, now install it.



Thanks, managed to install the AISO and ASO4ALL in Foobar. 
When I select the S1 output in Foobar, the displayed frequency on the S1 is 48K regardless if the files are 44.1, 96 or 192.

When I use the ASIO4ALL out in Foobar, the S1 will show 96 and 192k correctly same as the files. However, all 44.1 files will have crackling sound when using ASIOALL as output.
Foobar doesnt decode DSD too.

I tried the Neutron music player (trial) and have no problem with DSD, 44.1, 48, 96, 192, etc.
I will try other music apps later, any other recommendation from the group here for Windows 10 and/or IOS?
Thanks


----------



## letitgoo

bluestorm1992 said:


> I happen to have both of them (and paw 6000 as well). What specifically do you want to know about?
> 
> I think the LPGT is hands down one of the best purchases I have ever made. Very smooth and clean user interface (much better than Android-based systems in my mind). Powerful enough to fully drive the Sony IER-Z1R. If you already have a decent music collection (in SD cards), I think LPGT is the best option in the market right now.
> 
> ...


I have Sony IER-Z1R. Thanks for the feedback. I will give it a try.


----------



## bluestorm1992

letitgoo said:


> I have Sony IER-Z1R. Thanks for the feedback. I will give it a try.


Hope you will enjoy it! I personally like using the POP PMEQ with the IER; I think it’s the perfect fit.


----------



## musicday

How many of you use MQA files and wait for that feature to be implemented in the S1 via firmware update?


----------



## rustyvinyl

musicday said:


> How many of you use MQA files and wait for that feature to be implemented in the S1 via firmware update?


Me....by end of the year I heard


----------



## AlexCBSN

musicday said:


> How many of you use MQA files and wait for that feature to be implemented in the S1 via firmware update?


me brooo! Looking forward to it


----------



## HiFlight

AlexCBSN said:


> me brooo! Looking forward to it


+1!


----------



## TheThingGoesSkrrr

any authorized US dealer selling this?


----------



## bluestorm1992

TheThingGoesSkrrr said:


> any authorized US dealer selling this?


Musicteck

https://shop.musicteck.com/products..._content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic

They also sell S1 on their Amazon store. You can just search for Lotoo PAW S1 on Amazon.


----------



## jibberish

bluestorm1992 said:


> Musicteck
> 
> https://shop.musicteck.com/products..._content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic
> 
> They also sell S1 on their Amazon store. You can just search for Lotoo PAW S1 on Amazon.


I bought mine from Musicteck, arrived in just a few days.


----------



## vwong99

musicday said:


> How many of you use MQA files and wait for that feature to be implemented in the S1 via firmware update?


+1

Am looking forward to the MQA implementation to the S1 before pulling the trigger.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Some pics for the yellow S1 case. Really well made; closes magnetically.


----------



## M3NTAL

Would be great if it had a USB C slot in the bottom or does the unit overheat like that?


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Aug 3, 2020)

M3NTAL said:


> Would be great if it had a USB C slot in the bottom or does the unit overheat like that?


It does not have a USB C slot in the bottom, so I think this is more of a carrying case rather than a case that’s always on. For that usage, I would recommend the silicon case instead.


----------



## M3NTAL

Exactly - I'd like a combo of the silicon + leather case *feature* (Cable holder is really good idea)


----------



## bluestorm1992

M3NTAL said:


> Exactly - I'd like a combo of the silicon + leather case *feature* (Cable holder is really good idea)


I am thinking that maybe it is a good idea to get both cases, but the carrying case right now has just enough space for the S1; not sure if it will still fit if the S1 has the silicon case on as well.


----------



## M3NTAL

I mean, put a cutout in the leather case so that you can use the S1 while it is in the leather case. I'm sure I could easily leather punch out the square


----------



## iMongui

Joining the club, amazing how it works, very nice product with an affordable budget


----------



## MatusSVK

Has anyone had the chance to compare the S1 with the new Earmen Sparrow?


----------



## iMongui

Damn, the more I listen to it, the more I like it, awesome how small it is but how powerful can be, amazing, really. Im thinking seriously to apart (even maybe drop) my DX220 as this small piece its more portable and it works like a charm with all iDevices that I have, including Nintendo Switch on Game mode !


----------



## xkoo

any ETA on MQA in Lotoo paw s1?


----------



## Wyville

Was just browsing and saw something curious from Lotoo. No idea what it is...


----------



## iMongui

Looks like a desktop device with balanced xlr, spdif, switches for gain and maybe to switch between connections and optical... Looks good


----------



## 8481

iMongui said:


> Damn, the more I listen to it, the more I like it, awesome how small it is but how powerful can be, amazing, really. Im thinking seriously to apart (even maybe drop) my DX220 as this small piece its more portable and it works like a charm with all iDevices that I have, including Nintendo Switch on Game mode !



Do it mate, I sold my 1Z after getting this lmao.


----------



## Wyville

iMongui said:


> Looks like a desktop device with balanced xlr, spdif, switches for gain and maybe to switch between connections and optical... Looks good


Yes, it looked like the S1 just got a bigger brother.


----------



## xkoo

Wyville said:


> Was just browsing and saw something curious from Lotoo. No idea what it is...


looking forward to finding out what is here going on


----------



## Rockwell75

More Lotoo magic.


----------



## Nostoi

iMongui said:


> Looks like a desktop device with balanced xlr, spdif, switches for gain and maybe to switch between connections and optical... Looks good


Hope so.


----------



## iMongui

I just hope that with this new release, they don't forget some other new devices like this S1 because its very very very new


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Aug 7, 2020)

xkoo said:


> looking forward to finding out what is here going on


It is a USB digital interface according to them (I hope I am calling it correctly). I think this is what @iMongui is referring to. 

On a related note, I happen to learn from them that Lotoo is planning to launch a desktop-class dac/amp as well. This could happen as soon as next year.

A bit more details for the USB digital interface from them: "It translates USB signals to AES/SPDIF that can be used in some high-end desktop dac/amps. It itself is not a dac/amp." They also said that they are developing the software (or app?) that allows PS4, PS5 to be used with this USB digital interface, so that you can enjoy the audio from the games with desktop dac/amps.

In general, this interface serves as a middle man between  pc/phone/gaming devices and desktop amps.


----------



## Wyville

bluestorm1992 said:


> It is a USB digital interface according to them (I hope I am calling it correctly). I think this is what @iMongui is referring to.
> 
> On a related note, I happen to learn from them that Lotoo is planning to launch a desktop-class dac/amp as well. This could happen as soon as next year.


Really? Full size or portable? Oh, my... 

ps. Is that the Phi or V2 in your profile picture? Been drooling over those lately.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Wyville said:


> Really? Full size or portable? Oh, my...
> 
> ps. Is that the Phi or V2 in your profile picture? Been drooling over those lately.


Full size, and they say that it will not be too big (not like the WA33). It will probably be more of the size of WA22 or even smaller.

The one in my pic is the Diana V2. I was also choosing between the phi and v2, and I was kindly advised by Mike Liang from Woo Audio that V2+the superconductor cable will be a better combo if all you want is to enjoy the music. He has both the Phi and V2, and uses the Phi only for the purpose of testing different devices as it is so transparent and non-forgiving. In fact, the Phi is so not forgiving that it will reveal all the flaws either in the recordings or the devices, which could be a bit annoying... The V2 has a smaller soundstage but is much more forgiving and pleasant to listen to. In my own experience, I grow to appreciate some tracks and types of music for the first time when using the V2, and I have been very very happy with it.

The LPGT is a superb device for its line-out function, and it pairs very well with the WA11. It is not by itself powerful enough to drive the V2; for that purpose, I would recommend Fiio M15.


----------



## Wyville

bluestorm1992 said:


> Full size, and they say that it will not be too big (not like the WA33). It will probably be more of the size of WA22 or even smaller.
> 
> The one in my pic is the Diana V2. I was also choosing between the phi and v2, and I was kindly advised by Mike Liang from Woo Audio that V2+the superconductor cable will be a better combo if all you want is to enjoy the music. He has both the Phi and V2, and uses the Phi only for the purpose of testing different devices as it is so transparent and non-forgiving. In fact, the Phi is so not forgiving that it will reveal all the flaws either in the recordings or the devices, which could be a bit annoying... The V2 has a smaller soundstage but is much more forgiving and pleasant to listen to. In my own experience, I grow to appreciate some tracks and types of music for the first time when using the V2, and I have been very very happy with it.
> 
> The LPGT is a superb device for its line-out function, and it pairs very well with the WA11. It is not by itself powerful enough to drive the V2; for that purpose, I would recommend Fiio M15.


That is really interesting! Will be great to learn more about it in due course. 

Thanks! Not that I currently have the budget for either, but from what I have been reading I suspect that much like with you, the V2 would fit me better. For me too it is all about the music and I also got the impression that to get the best out of the Phi would require a lot more expensive gear (like the WA33).


----------



## bluestorm1992

xkoo said:


> any ETA on MQA in Lotoo paw s1?


It was originally close to be done, but Covid-19 affects the MQA certification process in the UK and US. Now that the situation in the UK has improved, the process may be back on track.


----------



## povidlo

Just ordered for $165 USD shipped to Canada from Linsoul: https://www.linsoul.com/products/lotoo-paw-s1 .

Not sure about you guys around the world, but this is the cheapest I've seen it shipped to Canada.

Prior, it had been available from Musicteck (+$50 USD shipping) and Hifigo (+ $10 USD shipping) only (ebay sellers charging even more) from what I could find.


----------



## twister6

Wyville said:


> Really? Full size or portable? Oh, my...
> 
> ps. Is that the Phi or V2 in your profile picture? Been drooling over those lately.



Erik, did you see this? What a coincidence they just posted this comparison video.


----------



## Wyville

twister6 said:


> Erik, did you see this? What a coincidence they just posted this comparison video.


Yeah, funny coincidence. Watched the video a few days ago, which was quite helpful to get an idea of the difference in signature, as well as of how picky the Phi can be about the source.


----------



## twister6

povidlo said:


> Just ordered for $165 USD shipped to Canada from Linsoul: https://www.linsoul.com/products/lotoo-paw-s1 .
> 
> Not sure about you guys around the world, but this is the cheapest I've seen it shipped to Canada.
> 
> Prior, it had been available from Musicteck (+$50 USD shipping) and Hifigo (+ $10 USD shipping) only (ebay sellers charging even more) from what I could find.



From what I heard, Lotoo said they will only honor to service S1 or their other products purchased from authorized dealers, not from other resellers


----------



## povidlo

twister6 said:


> From what I heard, Lotoo said they will only honor to service S1 or their other products purchased from authorized dealers, not from other resellers



Thanks for heads up.

I believe Linsoul is an authorized dealer. They sell Lotoo DAPs as well. 

This is from the Paw S1 product page:

*Authenthic Products*
Linsoul Audio is the authorized distributor. All products are authentic and genuine.


----------



## soas

twister6 said:


> From what I heard, Lotoo said they will only honor to service S1 or their other products purchased from authorized dealers, not from other resellers



List of the authorized retailers from Lotoo's website:

http://www.lotoo.cn/english/Sales_Network/


----------



## povidlo

soas said:


> List of the authorized retailers from Lotoo's website:
> 
> http://www.lotoo.cn/english/Sales_Network/



Thanks for sharing this. 

Weird. Linsoul is usually legit.

Sent them a message to inquire.

Paid with PayPal, so not too worried.


----------



## soas

povidlo said:


> Thanks for sharing this.
> 
> Weird. Linsoul is usually legit.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't be too worried either. I am not exactly familiar with either Linsoul or Musicteck, but they both seem to be names that pop up often here. If anything happens, they should be able to support you or anyone else.

Haven't seen any failures on the S1, and Lotoo in general seems like they have a good reputation. As you mentioned, PayPal and credit card companies can have extended warranty or after-purchase support.

Just wanted to post it for posterity just in case. I am very happy with my S1.


----------



## twister6

povidlo said:


> Thanks for sharing this.
> 
> Weird. Linsoul is usually legit.
> 
> ...



Since I review a lot of stuff and receive it directly from manufacturers, I don't always keep track of which distributor is authorized, but I get asked this question quite often.  I guess it is less risky when buying $165 usb dac vs $3k+ LPGT dap   And it is true, Musicteck, Linsoul, Hifigo, Penon are all well known, legit, and often discussed on head-fi.  But you have to verify with manufacturer, like you can see on Lotoo page where musicteck is listed as authorized seller.  Because if something fails and you send manufacturer an email or support question, they will often ask you where you bought it and request a proof of purchase, and if it is not from their authorized dealer - you will have to contact the seller and ask for replacement which is going to be handled out of their pocket, rather than under warranty from manufacturer.  There are a lot of complicated rules


----------



## Ultrainferno

The Lotoo PAW S1 giveaway is ending this week. Only a few days left to enter our free giveaway. All you have to do is comment on the article. 

Good luck!

https://www.headfonia.com/giveaway-lotoo-paw-s1/


----------



## vanez1985 (Aug 8, 2020)

Did anyone have a chance to compare this brilliant little gem with Fiio Q5/Q5s, ideally with AM3B module?

I am currently using it with my 4.4BAL CA Atlas / Cascade / Sony XBA-Z5 listening to Tidal mostly, but getting similar (or better) sound quality with substantially smaller footprint while still being able to answer phone calls sounds very tempting.


----------



## WareZ

jeffri said:


> Finally get my S1. It comes with 1.0.0.4 and updated to 1.0.0.7 now.
> 
> And wow, I certainly can heard the differences in sound, like the slight grain is completely gone or something. Not sure if it just my mind playing trick with me, but it is cleaner and notes are more solid overall. This is the sound I'm happier with than the sound coming out of the box.
> 
> Going to take some pics and compare it to a few stuff in my arsenal in the next few days. If anyone would like to request some comparison, feel free to check my gears collection on my profile and I'll see what I can do. For starter, I think I'll go with BTR5.



How do you like the S1, with the JVC HA-FD01 specifically? Thanks!


----------



## hotsnacx

Def1side said:


> I use them with my DAPS : pioneer xdp100r and hiby r3. They both sound better with lotoo paw s1. I don’t get interuptions even if i hang the s1 out of my pocket.



Hiby r3 pro and lotoo paw s1. I was thinking about purchasing this combination for my solaris. Any comments on how you are still using this combination?


----------



## twister6

hotsnacx said:


> Hiby r3 pro and lotoo paw s1. I was thinking about purchasing this combination for my solaris. Any comments on how you are still using this combination?



It's a good pair up, but you have to remember to change volume only from S1.  For some reason, and the same with AP80Pro running Hiby OS as well, whenever you forget and try to change the volume from the DAP, it crashes S1.


----------



## jeffri

WareZ said:


> How do you like the S1, with the JVC HA-FD01 specifically? Thanks!



Quite good. Personally, the FD01 is a bit bright for me and with S1, I set it to Sweet EQ and that works great for my taste.


----------



## 8481

Anyone with an iPadPro 2018 can comment if they are finding the same as me?

It seems that I get significantly less power on my iPad into the S1 than compared to my phone or PC. On my PC high gain on 1 vol is usually too loud but on my iPad I need to crank it up to 20.


----------



## AlexCBSN

8481 said:


> Anyone with an iPadPro 2018 can comment if they are finding the same as me?
> 
> It seems that I get significantly less power on my iPad into the S1 than compared to my phone or PC. On my PC high gain on 1 vol is usually too loud but on my iPad I need to crank it up to 20.


Lightning connector? yes, it has a super weak power output compared to USB c, 2019 ipad pro (usb C) has the same output as my MBP (2016) but from my iPhone x output is weak and need to be cranked up always


----------



## 8481

My bad, I meant the 2019 version, it has USB C. Output in my iPhone XS is louder than my iPad.



AlexCBSN said:


> Lightning connector? yes, it has a super weak power output compared to USB c, 2019 ipad pro (usb C) has the same output as my MBP (2016) but from my iPhone x output is weak and need to be cranked up always


----------



## musicday

My Asus laptop that runs windows 7 64 bit ultimate has the headphones jack broken, at least I assume, as there is not sound output in headphones no matter what I've tried.
Luckily since I got the Lotoo Paw S1, not only I can use the headphones again, but the sound is much better. Such a tiny and powerful USB DAC and amplifier without internal battery.
Definitely one of the must buy items of the year if you care about good sound in a tiny device and the thickness of your wallet will stay pretty much the same.. 🙂


----------



## MatusSVK

I'm really considering the P1. Is it true that the P1 sounds flat or boring with low-res files (I would use Spotify only).

This is just what I read on its review over at headfonia. Is it worth it going for it, although I would only listen to Spotify over something like the BTR5


----------



## twister6

MatusSVK said:


> I'm really considering the P1. Is it true that the P1 sounds flat or boring with low-res files (I would use Spotify only).
> 
> This is just what I read on its review over at headfonia. Is it worth it going for it, although I would only listen to Spotify over something like the BTR5



Yes, P1 is flat and boring.  You should consider S1 instead


----------



## MatusSVK

twister6 said:


> Yes, P1 is flat and boring.  You should consider S1 instead


O sorry : ), thinking about too many things at the same time, I did mean the S1.

I know the the S1 is neutral, but essentially what I'm asking, is it worth going for the S1, considering I'm streaming from Spotify over some Bluetooth DACs, purely on SQ


----------



## twister6

povidlo said:


> Thanks for sharing this.
> Weird. Linsoul is usually legit.
> Sent them a message to inquire.
> Paid with PayPal, so not too worried.



Wait, did you send message to Linsoul or Lotoo?  Cause I just saw Lotoo posted on their FB a letter that they have been asked about popular retailers hifigo and linsoul, and they are not authorized to sell S1 and the warranty will be invalid.


----------



## twister6

MatusSVK said:


> O sorry : ), thinking about too many things at the same time, I did mean the S1.
> 
> I know the the S1 is neutral, but essentially what I'm asking, is it worth going for the S1, considering I'm streaming from Spotify over some Bluetooth DACs, purely on SQ



I was just busting your chops, m8   I guess it will depend, for those who don't want to be wired to their phone, they will choose wireless BT dac/amp.  Others who don't mind being wired, or don't want to charge another battery, and want access to Lotoo PEQ presets, will go for S1.  I personally don't have too many wireless dac/amps for comparison, but hopefully someone else can chime in.


----------



## blankdisc

here is Lotoo's official statement regarding unauthorised retailers


----------



## povidlo

twister6 said:


> Wait, did you send message to Linsoul or Lotoo?  Cause I just saw Lotoo posted on their FB a letter that they have been asked about popular retailers hifigo and linsoul, and they are not authorized to sell S1 and the warranty will be invalid.



Linsoul replied and blatantly told me they're an authorized dealer for Lotoo. What a mess. I reached out back to them and shared the Lotoo's FB post.


On Lotoo side, I live in Canada and they don't list an authorized dealer for this region. Does it mean the only way to buy the unit is from an un-authorized reseller?

I could buy from musicteck but they charge $50(!) for shipping and are only authorized for USA per the shared URL. Does it mean I'm technically not covered then either?

If something's wrong with the unit, will Lotoo actually pay for shpping to China (or wherever their warehouse is) from Canada if I did buy from authorized seller?

Would it great to get these answers from Lotoo but I don't use social media so not sure how to reach them on this.


----------



## Layman1 (Aug 12, 2020)

.


----------



## hakunamakaka

MatusSVK said:


> O sorry : ), thinking about too many things at the same time, I did mean the S1.
> 
> I know the the S1 is neutral, but essentially what I'm asking, is it worth going for the S1, considering I'm streaming from Spotify over some Bluetooth DACs, purely on SQ




If you are already using bluetooth dac/amp like fiio BTR5/UP4 than S1 will not bring much of a difference. I’ve tested S1 with few different IEM’s/ headphones using spotify/youtube and failed to recognise S1 against bluetooth dac/amp in the blind test, maybe with critical listening it can be done... What S1 brings to the table is it’s EQ presets. Few of them increases sound quality and adjusts sound signature more to my taste. I really start to feel sounds popping out everywhere and being layered in the way better  picture than my UP4 can do. These BT dac/amps are decent gizmos that makes sound cleaner/better controlled and louder than your phone, but find the right EQ preset with S1 and it can easily push your headphones to punch above it’s class


----------



## povidlo

Layman1 said:


> You could try contacting @Hana Yu who is the official Lotoo rep on Head-Fi.
> Also, I'd suggest reaching out to Andrew at MusicTeck and querying the shipping fees.
> From what I've heard, he's friendly and helpful, and I'm sure he'd do his best to help or steer you in the right direction



Instead of PM'ing, it'd be great for @Hana Yu to reply here publicly. The authorized sellers issue appears to be a hot topic considering Lotoo put out a letter.

http://www.lotoo.cn/english/Sales_Network/
- If a customer living in a country not listed but buys from one of the listed agents - is full warranty applicable? E.g. I'm in Canada and buy from Musicteck which is listed as the agent for USA.

- If a customer makes a purchase from authorized seller, would Lotoo pay for two-way shipping internationally if service has to be performed?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## jburks725

8481 said:


> My bad, I meant the 2019 version, it has USB C. Output in my iPhone XS is louder than my iPad.


2019 iPad Pro 11" here, and I do not see the behavior you're reporting. I run my S1 at the same volume with my MBP and my iPad over USB-C. With my iPhone XS over Lightning, I usually have to raise the volume a little (less than 5) to get the same sound level. I'm using the Lotoo USB-C and Lightning cables.


----------



## 8481

jburks725 said:


> 2019 iPad Pro 11" here, and I do not see the behavior you're reporting. I run my S1 at the same volume with my MBP and my iPad over USB-C. With my iPhone XS over Lightning, I usually have to raise the volume a little (less than 5) to get the same sound level. I'm using the Lotoo USB-C and Lightning cables.



Interesting, could be my iPad that’s the problem then. With a windows laptop the USB C cable works fine as well.


----------



## Facta

Wyville said:


> Was just browsing and saw something curious from Lotoo. No idea what it is...



Genelec 8361B pair in the background -the powered monitor pair with internal DSP that accepts both digital and analogue inputs through XLR. The little Lotoo device could be a plain bit-to-bit signal converter to be connected to computer in the sound mixing/mastering studio or audiophile homes.


----------



## darkxvx

Facta said:


> Genelec 8361B pair in the background -the powered monitor pair with internal DSP that accepts both digital and analogue inputs through XLR. The little Lotoo device could be a plain bit-to-bit signal converter to be connected to computer in the sound mixing/mastering studio or audiophile homes.



It looks like specifically a digital converter. The left dip switch list aes and spdif. Also, it looks like the 8331 and not the 8361.


----------



## bflat

These no details ads remind me of restaurants that don't have a sign plus you got to find the hidden door. I find both really annoying but I suppose it gets people to generate free exposure on social media.

I prefer companies like Schiit - all the details and even back story in their first announcement with the product available to buy on that same day.


----------



## Melt28 (Aug 13, 2020)

Anyone know how to connect this to a phone that already has a built in 3.5mm jack? I just got it and am trying to get it to work on my old galaxy s8 running android 9.


----------



## all999

Melt28 said:


> Anyone know how to connect this to a phone that already has a built in USB jack? I just got it and am trying to get it to work on my old galaxy s8 running android 9.




Just plug it in and open your music app. It should work without any other actions. Is display on your S1 showing anything?


----------



## Rcuello56

Melt28 said:


> Anyone know how to connect this to a phone that already has a built in USB jack? I just got it and am trying to get it to work on my old galaxy s8 running android 9.


Just be ware of the cable, my S8+ only works with the Woo cable, not with the one coming with the S1


----------



## Melt28

all999 said:


> Just plug it in and open your music app. It should work without any other actions. Is display on your S1 showing anything?



No, the s1 doesn't even turn on when I plug it in.


----------



## Melt28

Rcuello56 said:


> Just be ware of the cable, my S8+ only works with the Woo cable, not with the one coming with the S1


Where did you buy your woo cable from? I'm not familiar with it.


----------



## Rcuello56

Melt28 said:


> Where did you buy your woo cable from? I'm not familiar with it.


https://wooaudio.com/accessories/wooaudio-usb-cable

Follow that link, orice $15 + shipment


----------



## Lu88

8481 said:


> Interesting, could be my iPad that’s the problem then. With a windows laptop the USB C cable works fine as well.



I did a quick test with Amazon Music on iPhone X, iPad Pro 12.9 (2018), and Windows 10 Pro 2004 PC (exclusive mode on).
And I've confirmed they have the same output level. S1 volume is at 20 on high gain.


----------



## mashuto

Melt28 said:


> No, the s1 doesn't even turn on when I plug it in.


Is there a setting to enable OTG in your quick settings or something similar? On my phone I have to enable it once I plug it in.


----------



## ClieOS

S1 + Moondrop SSR. Good time...


----------



## Melt28

mashuto said:


> Is there a setting to enable OTG in your quick settings or something similar? On my phone I have to enable it once I plug it in.


I can't find where I would enable OTG even though it seems like my phone is compatible with it.


----------



## WareZ

Aradea said:


> Guys,
> 
> I have a couple of questions and I'd appreciate your answers:
> 1. Not sure if I missed this, but has anyone compared the S1 to the sonata HD pro?
> 2. As I own the sonata HD pro and I think it is sufficient to drive my HE4xx, do you think that the S1 can drive the HE4xx as well?



 A little late, but I wanted to give my thoughts in case you're still considering or anyone else... Personally, I prefer the Sonata HD Pro on everything except for cans it cannot drive to decent volume. Ex; Hifiman Sundara. 
 The Sonata HDP sounds so much cleaner to me, I thought I had a broken S1 and ordered a replacement (I love Amazon). Unless they were both broken, all I can say is this; after listening to the Sonata HDP for months, upon plugging in the S1, I now understand exactly what a "veil" sounds like. I even felt the all the EQ settings sounded like they were veiled, just in a much different way. 
 To my ears, as they say. Maybe I just do not prefer this "analog" sound everyone has been referring to.  

In all other aspects the Lotoo S1 is very nice; great build quality, easy to use, simple to upgrade the FW, has decent power on balanced. I wanted to love the S1 so much I'm a little sad I dont.


----------



## WareZ

8481 said:


> Anyone with an iPadPro 2018 can comment if they are finding the same as me?
> 
> It seems that I get significantly less power on my iPad into the S1 than compared to my phone or PC. On my PC high gain on 1 vol is usually too loud but on my iPad I need to crank it up to 20.



I've found that all of these "larger" dongles receive more power, sound a little better, & can drive headphones easier when connected to a PC, compared to an Android phone (cant say for an Apple, but I assume its the same). The S1 being too loud on 1 though... sounds off. On 1 I basically hear nothing.


----------



## WareZ

Melt28 said:


> I can't find where I would enable OTG even though it seems like my phone is compatible with it.



You have to enable developer options on Android. Go to settings > About > Build # > select it 7 times. Developer options will show up, go in there and enable OTG and USB debugging.


----------



## Melt28

WareZ said:


> You have to enable developer options on Android. Go to settings > About > Build # > select it 7 times. Developer options will show up, go in there and enable OTG and USB debugging.


I have the USB debugging option but I don't have an option for enabling OTG.


----------



## Melt28

So weirdly enough it seems to be an issue with the included cable. I have a USB c external hard drive cable that works but not the included one...


----------



## Monkeyk2010

Melt28 said:


> So weirdly enough it seems to be an issue with the included cable. I have a USB c external hard drive cable that works but not the included one...


Same here, the included cable sucks big time. I tested the sound quality with a better cable en even the sound is way better. With the original cable the sound is sharp, with a better cable way nicer, less fatigue.


----------



## twister6

ClieOS said:


> S1 + Moondrop SSR. Good time...



From ClieOS himself, I would have expected earbuds rather than IEMs in the pair up picture


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Aug 14, 2020)

Monkeyk2010 said:


> Same here, the included cable sucks big time. I tested the sound quality with a better cable en even the sound is way better. With the original cable the sound is sharp, with a better cable way nicer, less fatigue.


Totally agree. This also seems to be the consensus among the Chinese user community: A better cable can dramatically improve the performance of S1. The cable does’t need to be expensive. I have seen people report performance improvement from cables worth 10-30 dollars.


----------



## bflat

Melt28 said:


> So weirdly enough it seems to be an issue with the included cable. I have a USB c external hard drive cable that works but not the included one...



This is not an uncommon problem with general USB C use. USB-C cables are suppose to have an internal chip called "E Mark" that contains all the information about what the cable limits are for power and data. Unfortunately not all cables have it, which defaults to the lowest values. That may be fine for the S1, but your phone may not like it.

I have a nice short USB C cable that has worked with every USB C device and charger I own as well as Thunderbolt:

Cable

Only $10 from Amazon if you are looking for good alternative.


----------



## ClieOS

twister6 said:


> From ClieOS himself, I would have expected earbuds rather than IEMs in the pair up picture



Not if it is something worth taking a note of


----------



## soas

Monkeyk2010 said:


> Same here, the included cable sucks big time. I tested the sound quality with a better cable en even the sound is way better. With the original cable the sound is sharp, with a better cable way nicer, less fatigue.





bluestorm1992 said:


> Totally agree. This also seems to be the consensus among the Chinese user community: A better cable can dramatically improve the performance of S1. The cable does’t need to be expensive. I have seen people report performance improvement from cables worth 10-30 dollars.



Pardon my ignorance, but does this really make a difference, or could those be defective cables? I would think it's just sending the digital signal, and either it works or it doesn't. The S1 would do audio processing anyway?

I currently don't have any complaints with my S1 - that goes for both the included cable and Lotoo's lightning version. But I haven't tried other USB cables either.


----------



## NeoDiNardo (Aug 15, 2020)

Sorry, I posted in the wrong thread.


----------



## bluestorm1992

soas said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but does this really make a difference, or could those be defective cables? I would think it's just sending the digital signal, and either it works or it doesn't. The S1 would do audio processing anyway?
> 
> I currently don't have any complaints with my S1 - that goes for both the included cable and Lotoo's lightning version. But I haven't tried other USB cables either.


I think most S1 cables work fine, but some people have reported connectivity issues. Also, as I understand it, different cables differ in their efficiency in transmitting signals; that’s why the material and purity of the material could matter.


----------



## Monkeyk2010

soas said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but does this really make a difference, or could those be defective cables? I would think it's just sending the digital signal, and either it works or it doesn't. The S1 would do audio processing anyway?



Normally I would agree, it's data so it either works or not but strangely even my wife hears difference, ofcourse it could be a bad cable but there is a BIG sound difference.


----------



## hakunamakaka

Monkeyk2010 said:


> Normally I would agree, it's data so it either works or not but strangely even my wife hears difference, ofcourse it could be a bad cable but there is a BIG sound difference.




That’s a strong statement for the cable that only transmits digital data. It could be if cable is faulty and you hear interference/signal lost. Other than that such cables doesn’t make any difference, but you are always free to believe whatever you feel to


----------



## eloelo

How'd you guys overcome the static sounds/interference problem. Got quite alot on the train lol


----------



## Monkeyk2010 (Aug 15, 2020)

hakunamakaka said:


> That’s a strong statement for the cable that only transmits digital data. It could be if cable is faulty and you hear interference/signal lost. Other than that such cables doesn’t make any difference, but you are always free to believe whatever you feel to


I think it must be the interference, again the original cable really sucks compared to another one. To overcome they say you can use Faraday tape, I ordered the cable that was mentioned here in this thread(ddhifi). The cable i'am using now (with no interference) is too long I wanted a shorter one.


----------



## 8481

I just realised that Spotify on my iPad was set to ‘quiet’, that’s why it was so soft lol.

I feel like an idiot now.


----------



## BobJS

Included cable never worked for me on any devices, but I had others that did.  As far as "qualilty" is concerned, for me it's been binary.  It either works or it doesn't.


----------



## soas

eloelo said:


> How'd you guys overcome the static sounds/interference problem. Got quite alot on the train lol



Does the static change based on whether you are holding it, or if it's near a phone or similar device?

Earlier in the thread people wrapped their S1s with stuff to try to combat this. Then when they updated to the latest firmware, the interference issue stopped entirely.

The latest firmware is 1.0.0.7, released in July:
http://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html


----------



## soas

I updated the firmware as soon as I got it, and never had any issues. But I have only been at home the whole time I've used it.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Aug 15, 2020)

soas said:


> Does the static change based on whether you are holding it, or if it's near a phone or similar device?
> 
> Earlier in the thread people wrapped their S1s with stuff to try to combat this. Then when they updated to the latest firmware, the interference issue stopped entirely.
> 
> ...


It is highly unlikely that a firmware update can eliminate electromagnetic interference.  This is a function of an unshielded wire (trace on a board, connector on a chip, or an external cable) that is then not properly filtered picking up a nearby signal on just the right frequency...  just the way an old time radio or TV antenna worked (which as I type that reminds me of how old I am and how young most participants here probably are!).  If you are on WiFi most likely you won’t hear the static even with cellular enabled as most of the data traffic will be handled by your WiFi, but outdoors or somewhere else without WiFi requiring you to use cellular you are likely to hear it; even if you are playing a song that is already downloaded on your phone you will hear the static if you are also browsing on your phone while on cellular.  At least this has been MY observation, and thus MY theory.  I could be 100% wrong 

In my case I have narrowed this down to interference from my phone’s LTE connection.  If I disable cellular, or just use WiFi (for example on my R6 Pro that only has WiFi) I don’t experience interference.  But if I disable WiFi on my phone and stream over cellular I definitely hear it.  This is a pretty common problem with dongles like the S1, though I am sure some are better than others.

I have not tried any shielding.  At this point I am using my BTR5 and Qudelix 5K as BT receivers and am pretty happy.  Also has the benefit that my phone is free to be used for browsing withou a dongle hanging off of it.


----------



## soas (Aug 15, 2020)

jsmiller58 said:


> It is highly unlikely that a firmware update can eliminate electromagnetic interference.  This is a function of an unshielded wire (trace on a board, connector on a chip, or an external cable) that is then not properly filtered picking up a nearby signal on just the right frequency...  just the way an old time radio or TV antenna worked (which as I type that reminds me of how old I am and how young most participants here probably are!).  If you are on WiFi most likely you won’t hear the static even with cellular enabled as most of the data traffic will be handled by your WiFi, but outdoors or somewhere else without WiFi requiring you to use cellular you are likely to hear it; even if you are playing a song that is already downloaded on your phone you will hear the static if you are also browsing on your phone while on cellular.  At least this has been MY observation, and thus MY theory.  I could be 100% wrong
> 
> In my case I have narrowed this down to interference from my phone’s LTE connection.  If I disable cellular, or just use WiFi (for example on my R6 Pro that only has WiFi) I don’t experience interference.  But if I disable WiFi on my phone and stream over cellular I definitely hear it.  This is a pretty common problem with dongles like the S1, though I am sure some are better than others.
> 
> I have not tried any shielding.  At this point I am using my BTR5 and Qudelix 5K as BT receivers and am pretty happy.  Also has the benefit that my phone is free to be used for browsing withou a dongle hanging off of it.



I tried to replicate the issue by turning off WiFi and holding the S1, its cable... nothing. Very strange that it affects some devices and not others.

The update fixing things didn't make sense to me either. I saw people in the gallery and had wrapped their S1s in some kind of tape.  Starting around this post if anyone's curious. On the next page, people updated their firmware and some said the static went away:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lot...5mm-4-4mm-output.932676/page-29#post-15696892

I remember my GSM phones from a very long time ago would have this annoying feedback whenever they were near speakers, even while in a car. Just before a phone call came in, nearby speakers would make a particular stuttering sound.


----------



## jeffri

I can say that firmware update did nothing for me in case of reducing the electromagnetic interference. It also only happened on LTE to me.

I'm thinking that the LTE band could explain why some people are affected, while other are less so. I.e maybe 900mhz band are more affected than 2100mhz band.


----------



## soundblast75

Only a bit better since updates, also holding it helps, it is only present over cellular when Tidal loads the tracks/albums


----------



## AlexCBSN

in my case, Romi's mod did some since i think he implemented a bit more power into the dac and maybe that did something against EFI, though it didnt got rid of it at 100% sometimes is truly annoying, as much as i enjoy the s1, right now i got my sony nw45 doing dac duties... still im looking at qudelix 5k, it might bring a new flavor with the PEQ parameters they just implemented


----------



## shadow1121

hi.. anyone managed to pair up the paw s1 with an EE Phantom with the standard ares ii cable that comes with it? any noticeable hiss? hows the pair up? thanks


----------



## MatusSVK

AlexCBSN said:


> in my case, Romi's mod did some since i think he implemented a bit more power into the dac and maybe that did something against EFI, though it didnt got rid of it at 100% sometimes is truly annoying, as much as i enjoy the s1, right now i got my sony nw45 doing dac duties... still im looking at qudelix 5k, it might bring a new flavor with the PEQ parameters they just implemented


If you do get the qudelix, please do report your findings between it and the S1, as I'm in the same position : )


----------



## hakunamakaka

I think if qudelix will have decent PEQ available it will be a no brainer. Even though I like S1, but on the go cabled connection doesn't feel right for me. If I'm actively moving I always get connection drops and when you want to adjust volume you need to take out both devices. Receiving a call is a huge mess while disconnecting/reconnecting everything. With bluetooth UP4 I was skeptical, but boy I was surprised... bluetooth codecs progressed a lot since it's early days and can easily match wired portable dac/amp in SQ. I can bet that once you try a decent bluetooth dac/amp you will forget all these wired dongles


----------



## AlexCBSN

hakunamakaka said:


> I think if qudelix will have decent PEQ available it will be a no brainer. Even though I like S1, but on the go cabled connection doesn't feel right for me. If I'm actively moving I always get connection drops and when you want to adjust volume you need to take out both devices. Receiving a call is a huge mess while disconnecting/reconnecting everything. With bluetooth UP4 I was skeptical, but boy I was surprised... bluetooth codecs progressed a lot since it's early days and can easily match wired portable dac/amp in SQ. I can bet that once you try a decent bluetooth dac/amp you will forget all these wired dongles


LDAC from r6pro to my wm1a or now the modded nw45a firmware sounds so amazing, i think i can leave the qudelix for later on, still i will be posting about it, right now the sony nw 45a got my whole attention @shadow1121


----------



## WareZ

I believe I saw this covered somewhere deep in this thread, but couldnt find it...

Does everyones S1 display incorrect file information?
Mine seems to get the sample rate correct sometimes, but never gets the bit-rate correct (always 24 or 32, I've never seen it say 16bit lol).


----------



## wondroushippo

MatusSVK said:


> If you do get the qudelix, please do report your findings between it and the S1, as I'm in the same position : )



Unless you need the Nintendo Switch support or REALLY hate battery charging, I'd just get the Qudelix. I have both the S1 and Qudelix, no significant difference in sound quality but the parametric EQ on the Qudelix works really well. Also both are great with IEMs since you get a lot of volume adjustment range.


----------



## hakunamakaka

Current trade-off in sound quality while going via bluetooth amps is such small or even “non existing”, I don’t see much future for cables dongles anymore.


----------



## MatusSVK

hakunamakaka said:


> Current trade-off in sound quality while going via bluetooth amps is such small or even “non existing”, I don’t see much future for cables dongles anymore.


I have not had the chance to see for myself, but apparently the most noticeable difference is the sub-bass depth and maybe soundstage width/depth


----------



## hakunamakaka

MatusSVK said:


> I have not had the chance to see for myself, but apparently the most noticeable difference is the sub-bass depth and maybe soundstage width/depth



Personally my bluetooth UP4 is not lacking in any way against S1 and I have TOTL IEM to spot any SQ difference . Due to it's own battery and better power output I can use UP4 with my full sized headphones. EQ presets held me with S1, especially "dental" .It can push my IEM a step further, but now I see that new bluetooth amps are being released with PEQ availability and that's basically all you need for portable use.

Majority of such bluetooth dac/amps now supports many codecs and are properly implemented. For such connection biggest challenge was signal stability and  small BT throughput, but new codecs are being released and with updates for existing ones I can tell that even "lower" quality AAC codec is completely sufficient, especially for streamed music. With the right setup I can't tell any difference between wired and BT connection anymore.


----------



## AlexCBSN

How is it possible that a company that sells daps for 2k+ cannot think that a dongle of this size will be inside a pocket, with the usb/ lightning port in the bottom of whatever device will be used, hanging from it since the cable is not that long and that it will be constantly used in that manner, between the efi, the fact that the cable just broke cause im walking and working while using it... sound is marvelous, but I think beyond looking at the sound specs you have to plan for the end user and it’s everyday use, I’m so annoyed right now cause it’s just something that can be thought before hand, lately I’ve been using other alternatives due to this and today after a couple of weeks Ieaving it home, finally it broke the cable. Which by mere design, it is stupid in practicality


----------



## jsmiller58 (Aug 19, 2020)

AlexCBSN said:


> How is it possible that a company that sells daps for 2k+ cannot think that a dongle of this size will be inside a pocket, with the usb/ lightning port in the bottom of whatever device will be used, hanging from it since the cable is not that long and that it will be constantly used in that manner, between the efi, the fact that the cable just broke cause im walking and working while using it... sound is marvelous, but I think beyond looking at the sound specs you have to plan for the end user and it’s everyday use, I’m so annoyed right now cause it’s just something that can be thought before hand, lately I’ve been using other alternatives due to this and today after a couple of weeks Ieaving it home, finally it broke the cable. Which by mere design, it is stupid in practicality


As the owner of a few dongles (9038s gen 2, 9038s gen 3, il-dsp, S8, S1) I have come to the conclusion that they are pretty useless for portable use...  a good BT adapter (BTR5, Qudelix 5K are the ones I have) is the way to go.  These bulky dongles are at best useful as a desktop solution when you need the best sound and are away from your home rig...  I will be using mine at work, some day, when we are allowed to go to the office.

Before any flames are directed my way let me stress that this is my opinion only.  YMMV!


----------



## AlexCBSN (Aug 19, 2020)

jsmiller58 said:


> As the owner of a few dongles (9038s gen 2, 9038s gen 3, il-dsp, S8, S1) I have come to the conclusion that they are pretty useless for portable use...  a good BT adapter (BTR5, Qudelix 5K are the ones I have) is the way to go.  These bulky dongles are at best useful as a desktop solution when you need the best sound and are away from your home rig...  I will be using mine at work, some day, when we are allowed to go to the office.
> 
> Before any flames are directed my way let me stress that this is my opinion only.  YMMV!


No
Flames bro, cause I think that the people doing this does their testing like that, which is fine for some, but at the end, portability is the ultimate goal, I can tell some people will use it like that, but when you are doing a product you have to get the full spectrum, it seems stupid to me to include a cable and appeal to the mobile users and not think in the larger use of the product, if they come here and say “it’s a desktop compact solution” I would be like “then I would invest my money in something for my desktop and leave alone this option”  they could design the product for that end and make it even better, it’s a shame since I think the insides are amazing, but the actual usage is impractical


----------



## jsmiller58

AlexCBSN said:


> No
> Flames bro, cause I think that the people doing this does their testing like that, which is fine for some, but at the end, portability is the ultimate goal, I can tell some people will use it like that, but when you are doing a product you have to get the full spectrum, it seems stupid to me to include a cable and appeal to the mobile users and not think in the larger use of the product, if they come here and say “it’s a desktop compact solution” I would be like “then I would invest my money in something for my desktop and leave alone this option”  they could design the product for that end and make it even better, it’s a shame since I think the insides are amazing, but the actual usage is impractical


I don’t doubt they intended it to be a portable product...  I just haven’t been satisfied with the reliability of any phone / bulky dongle in my pocket on the go, because of the cable connection reliability...  I also have invariably had LTE interference with these solutions when away from WiFi...  

I agree with you that these products should be better designed and tested for their intended use...  but based on my limited experience, they aren’t, and I am pretty much giving up on the use model...


----------



## auronthas

twister6 said:


> Anybody else found other transport pair ups or apps that don't work with S1?  Please, share.  Will be a good feedback for Lotoo since I know Pauline is monitoring this thread and some issues could be fixed in fw.


Hi all, late comer for S1, only two apps Neutron and UAPP (in built Tidal) works from my Galaxy S10 plus. There's only internal phone speaker for Spotify,  Hiby Music , Tidal apps. 

When I plugin S1 with stocked USB C cable, there's no USB DAC mode shown , only a pop-up messages asking to choose UAPP or Neutron apps.  

Kindly advise me how to get most apps work


----------



## NCUS

My S1 absolutely sounds better than my BTR5 over Bluetooth, and I think of the S1 as a great device to stream music from my laptop while I am on the road for work trips.  Some of my preference for the S1 may stem from using over-the-ear headphones (Focal Stellia), while IEMs seem exceptionally popular on this board.  I'm a little curious if people stream hi-rez over bluetooth because there is no bluetooth protocol that reliably handles 96, 192 or MQA files from what I understand.


----------



## bflat

AlexCBSN said:


> No
> Flames bro, cause I think that the people doing this does their testing like that, which is fine for some, but at the end, portability is the ultimate goal, I can tell some people will use it like that, but when you are doing a product you have to get the full spectrum, it seems stupid to me to include a cable and appeal to the mobile users and not think in the larger use of the product, if they come here and say “it’s a desktop compact solution” I would be like “then I would invest my money in something for my desktop and leave alone this option”  they could design the product for that end and make it even better, it’s a shame since I think the insides are amazing, but the actual usage is impractical



I'm of the opinion that a dongle is a dongle. However, based on your experience, what would you suggest Lotoo do with the design to make it more pocketable?


----------



## wenbinbin2010

bflat said:


> I'm of the opinion that a dongle is a dongle. However, based on your experience, what would you suggest Lotoo do with the design to make it more pocketable?



Maybe something with a wider rather than longer design so it sits more flush with the bottom of a phone? 

I'm reminded of this MacBook USB-C expander. The original USB-C expanders were all dongles line the S1 with a cable connecting the two. This new one sits flush. https://www.hypershop.com/products/new-2020-hyperdrive-duo-7-in-2-usb-c-hub?variant=31775726272574


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## jsmiller58 (Aug 19, 2020)

NCUS said:


> My S1 absolutely sounds better than my BTR5 over Bluetooth, and I think of the S1 as a great device to stream music from my laptop while I am on the road for work trips.  Some of my preference for the S1 may stem from using over-the-ear headphones (Focal Stellia), while IEMs seem exceptionally popular on this board.  I'm a little curious if people stream hi-rez over bluetooth because there is no bluetooth protocol that reliably handles 96, 192 or MQA files from what I understand.


I agree that the S1 sounds great!  If I am sitting down, and not by one of my desktop rigs, I will use the S1.  But for portable use model would use one of my BT devices (BTR5, 5K).  For BT streaming I would use LDAC (highest speed) (honestly I cannot tell much of a difference between LDAC and USB wired).


----------



## AlexCBSN

bflat said:


> I'm of the opinion that a dongle is a dongle. However, based on your experience, what would you suggest Lotoo do with the design to make it more pocketable?


Cable input (usb c) side ways instead of the top/ bottom position, or L shaped usb c to usb c cable. Get an “average” size of smartphones and do the cable that size, taking in count that the phone will be in a pocket, therefor the L shape already got you covered in how the phone will be sitting inside the pocket. With those 2 adjustments I can tell that you could be carrying it And not having to pull the phone with a lot of care to not damage it. Better efi shielding inside or in the cable implementation. And of course the volume being on the actual phone or at least a better solution to the actual ones. Believe me, the hilidac beam 2 due to its size it’s way more practical, why I don’t use it exclusively, cause I bought this product and it actually kills it, more with the romi mod, sadly the caveats are quite big, in things that should be already thought on when doing the marketing research. It’s not like “our audience will love this, you know? Hardcore audiophiles that will be substituting their whole desktop solutions for this” “hey phil! But don’t you think there will be customers walking around with this and might be an average person that will walk, jog, even run from a Killer bee hive while using the dongle” “Jesus Dave! You always bringing your negativity to the table! We are talking about an audiophile market, not super heroes!” I can tell that meeting went like that


----------



## jsmiller58

AlexCBSN said:


> Cable input (usb c) side ways instead of the top/ bottom position, or L shaped usb c to usb c cable. Get an “average” size of smartphones and do the cable that size, taking in count that the phone will be in a pocket, therefor the L shape already got you covered in how the phone will be sitting inside the pocket. With those 2 adjustments I can tell that you could be carrying it And not having to pull the phone with a lot of care to not damage it. Better efi shielding inside or in the cable implementation. And of course the volume being on the actual phone or at least a better solution to the actual ones. Believe me, the hilidac beam 2 due to its size it’s way more practical, why I don’t use it exclusively, cause I bought this product and it actually kills it, more with the romi mod, sadly the caveats are quite big, in things that should be already thought on when doing the marketing research. It’s not like “our audience will love this, you know? Hardcore audiophiles that will be substituting their whole desktop solutions for this” “hey phil! But don’t you think there will be customers walking around with this and might be an average person that will walk, jog, even run from a Killer bee hive while using the dongle” “Jesus Dave! You always bringing your negativity to the table! We are talking about an audiophile market, not super heroes!” I can tell that meeting went like that


ROFLMAO...!


----------



## ClieOS

Silicone case


----------



## musicday

ClieOS said:


> Silicone case


The silicone case is the best I've seen for any portable device.


----------



## hakunamakaka

AlexCBSN said:


> Cable input (usb c) side ways instead of the top/ bottom position, or L shaped usb c to usb c cable. Get an “average” size of smartphones and do the cable that size, taking in count that the phone will be in a pocket, therefor the L shape already got you covered in how the phone will be sitting inside the pocket. With those 2 adjustments I can tell that you could be carrying it And not having to pull the phone with a lot of care to not damage it. Better efi shielding inside or in the cable implementation. And of course the volume being on the actual phone or at least a better solution to the actual ones. Believe me, the hilidac beam 2 due to its size it’s way more practical, why I don’t use it exclusively, cause I bought this product and it actually kills it, more with the romi mod, sadly the caveats are quite big, in things that should be already thought on when doing the marketing research. It’s not like “our audience will love this, you know? Hardcore audiophiles that will be substituting their whole desktop solutions for this” “hey phil! But don’t you think there will be customers walking around with this and might be an average person that will walk, jog, even run from a Killer bee hive while using the dongle” “Jesus Dave! You always bringing your negativity to the table! We are talking about an audiophile market, not super heroes!” I can tell that meeting went like that



Forget any wired portable dongles on the go. Get the BT one and you won't look back on S1. By the way you describe things you would be much more happy with BT amp.
These advantages seems like a small details, but makes a massive difference while you are outdoors

I have Shanling UP4, can't comment on other BT amps, but I think they should be fairly similar. BT connection will give you a complete free phone to use / adjusting volume on either amplifier or phone / no more worries about bent cable/ no phone battery drain/ answering any incoming calls with a button click and use BT amp with mic. Sound quality wise I'm on the same boat with people that can't spot any difference between bluetooth and wired connection. This connection is passing only digital data 01010111 and yes depending on codec it would compress high-res music, but in reality who can really hear a difference between good mp3 and lossless rip ? Even though I loved S1, but with no EQ presets I was not able to guess correctly when wired and when BT connection was used.  You should try one of these bluetooth gizmos and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## AlexCBSN

hakunamakaka said:


> Forget any wired portable dongles on the go. Get the BT one and you won't look back on S1. By the way you describe things you would be much more happy with BT amp.
> These advantages seems like a small details, but makes a massive difference while you are outdoors
> 
> I have Shanling UP4, can't comment on other BT amps, but I think they should be fairly similar. BT connection will give you a complete free phone to use / adjusting volume on either amplifier or phone / no more worries about bent cable/ no phone battery drain/ answering any incoming calls with a button click and use BT amp with mic. Sound quality wise I'm on the same boat with people that can't spot any difference between bluetooth and wired connection. This connection is passing only digital data 01010111 and yes depending on codec it would compress high-res music, but in reality who can really hear a difference between good mp3 and lossless rip ? Even though I loved S1, but with no EQ presets I was not able to guess correctly when wired and when BT connection was used.  You should try one of these bluetooth gizmos and I think you will be pleasantly surprised.


Lately I’ve been doing nw45a and today my qudelix 5k is arriving  thanks for the heads up. Sorry, waking up, I need coffee


----------



## hakunamakaka

AlexCBSN said:


> Lately I’ve been doing nw45a and today my qudelix 5k is arriving  thanks for the heads up. Sorry, waking up, I need coffee




Let us know your findings when comparing qudelix 5k with S1


----------



## wenbinbin2010

hakunamakaka said:


> Forget any wired portable dongles on the go. Get the BT one and you won't look back on S1. By the way you describe things you would be much more happy with BT amp.
> These advantages seems like a small details, but makes a massive difference while you are outdoors



I agree with you that BT DAC/amps are more convenient. I certainly am looking into the current BT market, but I think tech is progressing so fast that I might just wait it out with the Lotoo S1 for a little.

The biggest benefit I find with the S1 being a USB-C dongle is the lack of charging. I never have to worry that the battery will be dead. I can bring the S1 wherever, and I know I'll be able to use it with any device.


----------



## IEManiac

Can anyone tell me why I would want to pick this over the Fiio BTR5 or Qudelix 5K?


----------



## jsmiller58 (Aug 20, 2020)

IEManiac said:


> Can anyone tell me why I would want to pick this over the Fiio BTR5 or Qudelix 5K?


It is a sign of how far Bluetooth has come that this is even a relevant question...!

In my non-critical listening experience the S1, 5K, and BTR5 all sound excellent (I listen to the 5K and BTR5 with LDAC at highest setting).  I can convince myself that the S1 sounds fuller, richer, but for general purpose listening i wouldn’t notice it.  The S1 would be my choice for stationary listening if I don’t have access to a desktop set up.  When I am on the go the BT devices win out for me as they don’t rely on a sometimes questionable wired connection to the phone, they don’t suffer from the LTE interference the S1 suffers from, and my phone is much easier to use as it is not connected to anything else.

If, as is rumored, the S1 gets MQA support, that will be a feather in its cap.


----------



## soas

IEManiac said:


> Can anyone tell me why I would want to pick this over the Fiio BTR5 or Qudelix 5K?



I wanted a device that I didn't have to worry about charging or battery problems a few years down the line.

My iPhone doesn't support LDAC so that was a concern. At the same time, I have never done a listening test comparing LDAC vs. AAC, so I don't know if I would be able to tell the difference. But for my current use case of plugging into my work laptop or phone, the S1 is perfect.

Very minor and subjective, but I do like the design of the S1 the most. The one thing I wish it had was a volume pot or wheel like their DAPs have, but that would probably make its price less competitive.


----------



## musicday

IEManiac said:


> Can anyone tell me why I would want to pick this over the Fiio BTR5 or Qudelix 5K?


Because this is Lotoo, a very reliable portable audio company. Unique sound for it's price!


----------



## hakunamakaka

soas said:


> I wanted a device that I didn't have to worry about charging or battery problems a few years down the line.
> 
> My iPhone doesn't support LDAC so that was a concern. At the same time, I have never done a listening test comparing LDAC vs. AAC, so I don't know if I would be able to tell the difference. But for my current use case of plugging into my work laptop or phone, the S1 is perfect.
> 
> Very minor and subjective, but I do like the design of the S1 the most. The one thing I wish it had was a volume pot or wheel like their DAPs have, but that would probably make its price less competitive.




AAC on iphones is really good. I truly believe that in reality barely someone would be able to tell the difference between well implemented AAC and wired connection. Android users report that LDAC is “better”, but that’s because their AAC codec is no match to iphones yet. I’ve read few articles that BT is not up to high res standard(which is true looking at numbers) but I would love to see these experts in the blind test


----------



## Devodonaldson

auronthas said:


> Hi all, late comer for S1, only two apps Neutron and UAPP (in built Tidal) works from my Galaxy S10 plus. There's only internal phone speaker for Spotify,  Hiby Music , Tidal apps.
> 
> When I plugin S1 with stocked USB C cable, there's no USB DAC mode shown , only a pop-up messages asking to choose UAPP or Neutron apps.
> 
> Kindly advise me how to get most apps work





hakunamakaka said:


> AAC on iphones is really good. I truly believe that in reality barely someone would be able to tell the difference between well implemented AAC and wired connection. Android users report that LDAC is “better”, but that’s because their AAC codec is no match to iphones yet. I’ve read few articles that BT is not up to high res standard(which is true looking at numbers) but I would love to see these experts in the blind test


I have an iPhone 7 used purely as a FAP with a Chord Mojo and ifi xdsd. I use Android phones. With my BTR5 it's pretty easy to tell the difference. The biggest change is in the upper frequencies. AAC, has a cutoff that LDAC and wired even moreso reach without issue. Rolled off treble is the biggest difference I hear in LDAC vs both AAC and APTX. Now AAC vs APTX is closer. The treble sparkle difference is much less prominent. I've been using both for a couple years with different DACS. Using the xdsd in Bluetooth vs wired I notice the same difference. Some of that extra life is what is missing, the overall freq response. It's far less noticeable with lesser iems and headphones, I Use Solaris and LCDi4 as my primary portables in ears. 99 Classic is my portable headphone. Again different people can hear things more clearly, but it's definitely noticeable with decent gear.


----------



## hakunamakaka

Devodonaldson said:


> I have an iPhone 7 used purely as a FAP with a Chord Mojo and ifi xdsd. I use Android phones. With my BTR5 it's pretty easy to tell the difference. The biggest change is in the upper frequencies. AAC, has a cutoff that LDAC and wired even moreso reach without issue. Rolled off treble is the biggest difference I hear in LDAC vs both AAC and APTX. Now AAC vs APTX is closer. The treble sparkle difference is much less prominent. I've been using both for a couple years with different DACS. Using the xdsd in Bluetooth vs wired I notice the same difference. Some of that extra life is what is missing, the overall freq response. It's far less noticeable with lesser iems and headphones, I Use Solaris and LCDi4 as my primary portables in ears. 99 Classic is my portable headphone. Again different people can hear things more clearly, but it's definitely noticeable with decent gear.




I have earsonics EM10 flagship and was not able to guess correctly when AAC and wired connection is being used. You need to have trained ears to spot that and listen critically which doesn’t happen on the go. if you are in mid of your 20’s it’s even harder. AAC can push up to 250kbps now and internet is full of sound samples. I’m not trying disregard the quality drop with AAC codec, but you can’t fallow numbers blindly. Best way is to test yourself. In the past it was considered that flac is far superior against mp3 which was disregarded by many sound engineers during blind tests as they guessed things at nearly 50/50 rate. Same will happen with BT, LDAC is already there, AAC is very close


----------



## WareZ

NCUS said:


> My S1 absolutely sounds better than my BTR5 over Bluetooth, and I think of the S1 as a great device to stream music from my laptop while I am on the road for work trips.  Some of my preference for the S1 may stem from using over-the-ear headphones (Focal Stellia), while IEMs seem exceptionally popular on this board.  I'm a little curious if people stream hi-rez over bluetooth because there is no bluetooth protocol that reliably handles 96, 192 or MQA files from what I understand.



  I concur... To my ears, Bluetooth 5.0 is nowhere near being the same as a wired connection. BTR5 is good for what it is but it does not sound as good as when its wired. I also use over-the-ears more than IEMs. 
  BTR5's power makes me question why the S1 doesnt have a battery though. If the S1 was twice as wide, it wouldnt make a difference to me. BTR5 has impressive power compared to the S1. 
  Also, portable, to me means I can walk around my house while doing chores or I can be working at my desk, go to the kitchen for a drink, come back... all without removing my headphones or disrupting the music. If Im doing physical activities or something, I dont want my huge phone on me, at all.


----------



## WareZ

bflat said:


> I'm of the opinion that a dongle is a dongle. However, based on your experience, what would you suggest Lotoo do with the design to make it more pocketable?



Even though this was not directed at me, just in case some company sees this... Any company making a portable wired DAC... Just charge an extra $10-15 and include something exactly like the "Woo Audio" USB-C to C cable, except half as long. Also, throw some medium strength velcro strips in there to stick to back of the phone... perfect portable set up.

And yes, I finally broke down the other day and ordered the $25 (What!!) Woo Audio cable.


----------



## WareZ

IEManiac said:


> Can anyone tell me why I would want to pick this over the Fiio BTR5 or Qudelix 5K?



Apparently, a fair bit of people in here think there isnt one. I think the S1 sounds different. Whether it sounds better is personal preference.  For ultimate portability, BT is the way to go, but I already carry this huge phone in my pocket. So I'll sacrifice a little ease of use for that extra 10-20% of joy (read; Sound Quality) the S1 gives my music.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Aug 22, 2020)

WareZ said:


> I concur... To my ears, Bluetooth 5.0 is nowhere near being the same as a wired connection. BTR5 is good for what it is but it does not sound as good as when its wired. I also use over-the-ears more than IEMs.
> BTR5's power makes me question why the S1 doesnt have a battery though. If the S1 was twice as wide, it wouldnt make a difference to me. BTR5 has impressive power compared to the S1.
> Also, portable, to me means I can walk around my house while doing chores or I can be working at my desk, go to the kitchen for a drink, come back... all without removing my headphones or disrupting the music. If Im doing physical activities or something, I dont want my huge phone on me, at all.



There is no doubt that wired is superior to Bluetooth from a purely technical perspective...  the question is whether it can be noticed.  And that probably depends on many variables...  Bluetooth 5.0 is part of the equation...  But more important than BT5 vs BT 4.1 is the codec (SBC, AAC, aptX, aptX HD, LDAC, UAT, etc).  Then there is the quality of the recording being played, and how compressed it is.  Then there is the music itself and what frequencies it has / emphasizes.  There is also the earphones / IEMs and their frequency response.  Then there is the human, probably the most compelex part of the equation - the quality of their hearing and even their preferences for sound signature is a part, but so is their attitude and use for music - are they casually listening, or are they truly concentrating on (and trained in) critical listening...  And most complicated for humans is carrying out a truly scientific experiment where they are the subject of their own experiment...  is it a blind A/B test or sighted test.  Is the audio volume exactly the same?  Human minds fill in so much detail, and take so many short cuts that we fool ourselves all the time so the conditions of the test have to be ideal.

All that aside, in my experience, I believe, and it is only my pinion, that with the right codec Bluetooth is essentially indistinguishable from a wired solution for day to day casual listening.  I say this as an owner of the S1 (along with other dongles such as the Hidizs S8, il-DSP, and 9038s), as well as several Bluetooth units (including the ES100, Qudelix 5K, and BTR5).  But I also have older ears so I don’t hear as well some frequencies as someone in their 20s, and I am not trained in critical listening,

Do I believe that there are people who can hear the differences?  Yes!  But I think the number is smaller than those who believe they can hear the difference.

Anyway, for me, my use models are a desktop rig at home, BT with LDAC set to highest quality on the go, and a dongle such as the S1 when I am stationary but away from home (like at work).  But this may not be the preferences of others and of course whatever they prefer is perfectly right for them!


----------



## BobJS

I don't understand. BT in any form is compressed.  Why would one want to compare BT with the S1?  I can understand comparing S1 with other dongle type DACs.  

Sure, it's possible to get a subjectively better sounding BT experience versus a particular hard wired DAC/Amp, but it's apples and oranges.  For what it's worth the S1 is subjectively better than any BT connection I've experienced including LDAC out of the ES100.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Aug 22, 2020)

BobJS said:


> I don't understand. BT in any form is compressed.  Why would one want to compare BT with the S1?  I can understand comparing S1 with other dongle type DACs.
> 
> Sure, it's possible to get a subjectively better sounding BT experience versus a particular hard wired DAC/Amp, but it's apples and oranges.  For what it's worth the S1 is subjectively better than any BT connection I've experienced including LDAC out of the ES100.


Again, wired is going to give you a technically superior sound over the best BT, no debate.  The question is wether you can distinguish between them.  I am glad for you - and impressed - that you can.  As I said for casual on the go listening I cannot, and I have the S1 and other highly praised dongles, and the 5K, BTR5 and other highly praised BT devices, and I listen with pretty nice IEMs.

But, I don’t have the hearing I had in my 20s, and I don’t sit for hours concentrating on critical listening, playing back over and over the same snippet of music to determine if there is a difference.  Maybe if I did I would hear the difference, but FOR ME music is a background to what I do, not the focus.

The other thing to note is what I believe to be the challenges with dongles that mar their on the go usage...  LTE interference that many have experienced.  Unreliable wired connection that can come loose in your pocket.  It is also a bulky solution that makes it more inconvenient to use your phone for something like texting, taking photos, reading email, or surfing the web while listening with an attached dongle.  Even if I could tell the audio difference, these would be showstoppers for on the go dongle usage.  Using a wired dongle connected to my phone or laptop while sitting at a desk at work, no problem!  Working in my yard, walking or hiking, exercising?  Big problem - for me.

But these are just MY OPINIONS based on my experience with these devices.


----------



## BobJS (Aug 22, 2020)

jsmiller58 said:


> Again, wired is going to give you a technically superior sound over the best BT, no debate.  The question is wether you can distinguish between them.  I am glad for you - and impressed - that you can.  As I said for casual on the go listening I cannot, and I have the S1 and other highly praised dongles, and the 5K, BTR5 and other highly praised BT devices, and I listen with pretty nice IEMs.
> 
> But, I don’t have the hearing I had in my 20s, and I don’t sit for hours concentrating on critical listening, playing back over and over the same snippet of music to determine if there is a difference.  Maybe if I did I would hear the difference, but FOR ME music is a background to what I do, not the focus.
> 
> ...



No question, no argument here.  For on the go convenience a good BT is much better than the inconvenience of the S1.  If you're on the go, chances are it's more than good enough because you're not as critically listening.

My comment was referring to absolute sound quality so I kind of missed the point of what was being discussed.  Carry on!

Edit:  I myself would only use the S1 at either my desktop (not really, my desktop setup is better), or more likely when I'm laying in bed or going to sleep and not moving around.


----------



## hakunamakaka

Compressed doesn't mean worse sounding. Days of early/lower quality BT are gone and I can't state that wired connection is a noticeable step up in sound quality. If you can easily hear it, there is a high possibility that you got a BT codec miss match and your signal is pushed over old SBC. A challenge for manufacturers now is the support of  multiple different codecs and licensing costs, but won't be surprised if next gen Lotoo portable dongle will be released with BT connectivity instead of wired one


----------



## IEManiac (Aug 22, 2020)

IEManiac said:


> Can anyone tell me why I would want to pick this over the Fiio BTR5 or Qudelix 5K?


What I meant is this - both the Qudelix 5K and the Fiio BTR5 offer more functionality (Wired Balanced & SE DAC|Amp plus BT receiver) with just as much power, with the option of discharging or not discharging from the host smartphone, at a lower price? So why pick the Lotoo with less functionality and a higher price? What am I missing besides the fact that people hype and want the newest thing?


----------



## IEManiac

jsmiller58 said:


> It is a sign of how far Bluetooth has come that this is even a relevant question...!
> 
> In my non-critical listening experience the S1, 5K, and BTR5 all sound excellent (I listen to the 5K and BTR5 with LDAC at highest setting).  I can convince myself that the S1 sounds fuller, richer, but for general purpose listening i wouldn’t notice it.  The S1 would be my choice for stationary listening if I don’t have access to a desktop set up.  When I am on the go the BT devices win out for me as they don’t rely on a sometimes questionable wired connection to the phone, they don’t suffer from the LTE interference the S1 suffers from, and my phone is much easier to use as it is not connected to anything else.
> 
> If, as is rumored, the S1 gets MQA support, that will be a feather in its cap.


No, this is not what I meant. My question was not about BT vs. wired, but rather device functionality & price.


----------



## IEManiac

soas said:


> I wanted a device that I didn't have to worry about charging or battery problems a few years down the line.
> 
> My iPhone doesn't support LDAC so that was a concern. At the same time, I have never done a listening test comparing LDAC vs. AAC, so I don't know if I would be able to tell the difference. But for my current use case of plugging into my work laptop or phone, the S1 is perfect.
> 
> Very minor and subjective, but I do like the design of the S1 the most. The one thing I wish it had was a volume pot or wheel like their DAPs have, but that would probably make its price less competitive.


Yeah, the thing is that the Fiio at least can be set to draw power directly from the host device, bypassing its internal battery. Once and if the battery goes dead years from now, it will still be functional.


----------



## BobJS

hakunamakaka said:


> Compressed doesn't mean worse sounding. Days of early/lower quality BT are gone and I can't state that wired connection is a noticeable step up in sound quality. If you can easily hear it, there is a high possibility that you got a BT codec miss match and your signal is pushed over old SBC. A challenge for manufacturers now is the support of  multiple different codecs and licensing costs, but won't be surprised if next gen Lotoo portable dongle will be released with BT connectivity instead of wired one



If you mean compressed into FLAC, then yes, I agree.  I probably should have said lossy rather than compressed.  Granted, depending on the specific codec (I'm looking at YOU, LDAC), most people would be hard pressed to hear the difference.  If I'm listening critically, I can certainly hear the difference between AAC and lossless.  Less so, AptX.  And even less so LDAC.

But a lossy compression by definition means information has been removed from the original signal.  Everything else is a question of compromises that may or may not be acceptable.


----------



## jsmiller58

IEManiac said:


> What I meant is this - both the Qudelix 5K and the Fiio BTR5 offer more functionality (Wired Balanced & SE DAC|Amp plus BT receiver) with just as much power, with the option of discharging or not discharging from the host smartphone, at a lower price? So why pick the Lotoo with less functionality and a higher price? What am I missing besides the fact that people hype and want the newest thing?


I don’t use the 5K or BTR5 in wired mode, so I don’t know how their sound quality in wired mode would compare to the S1.  I imagine they would be simlar, but that is just a guess. I can believe the S1 has superior components and engineering / design, but not sure if that translates into sound quality difference you could detect.


----------



## NCUS (Aug 22, 2020)

I just listened to my S1, BTR5 on USB-C, and BTR5 on Bluetooth.  The S1 sounds better than the BTR5 on USB-C.  There S1 is much more balanced across the frequency spectrum, pulled out more detail from the music, and sounded more natural.  The BTR5 on USB-C sounded good but imparted a roughness that worked for some music but generally was a minus.  Bluetooth (AptX) was a distant third as it really compressed the dynamics on classical music.  Not surprisingly, on some pop music, which often is severely compressed to sound louder on the radio, the difference was much less than with classical. 

I tinkered with the BTR5 a bit on my iPhone, and I was surprised by its shockingly bad range vs. my cheap Jabra earbuds and terrible mic.  I was hoping to use it to convert my Stellias to a headset for conference calls (not videos calls on Microsoft Teams or Zoom as I realize I would look ridiculous with them), but doing so would require me to hold the BTR5 against my mouth because of the terrible mic.


----------



## IEManiac

NCUS said:


> I just listened to my S1, BTR5 on USB-C, and BTR5 on Bluetooth.  The S1 sounds better than the BTR5 on USB-C.  There S1 is much more balanced across the frequency spectrum, pulled out more detail from the music, and sounded more natural.  The BTR5 on USB-C sounded good but imparted a roughness that worked for some music but generally was a minus.  Bluetooth (AptX) was a distant third as it really compressed the dynamics on classical music.  Not surprisingly, on some pop music, which often is severely compressed to sound louder on the radio, the difference was much less than with classical.
> 
> I tinkered with the BTR5 a bit on my iPhone, and I was surprised by its shockingly bad range vs. my cheap Jabra earbuds and terrible mic.  I was hoping to use it to convert my Stellias to a headset for conference calls (not videos calls on Microsoft Teams or Zoom as I realize I would look ridiculous with them), but doing so would require me to hold the BTR5 against my mouth because of the terrible mic.


Why would that be? I would expect that both are audibly transparent so that any differences are only in your head. What is not in my or your head is that one costs less and offers greater functionality.


----------



## xkoo

IEManiac said:


> Why would that be? I would expect that both are audibly transparent so that any differences are only in your head. What is not in my or your head is that one costs less and offers greater functionality.


Anyone has news regarding MQA on Lotoo paw s1? I haven't seen anywhere any confirmation! Looks like it is only rumor.


----------



## musicday

xkoo said:


> Anyone has news regarding MQA on Lotoo paw s1? I haven't seen anywhere any confirmation! Looks like it is only rumor.


Maybe someone in Beijing can contact them directly and let us know.
Wondering apart from MQA what other features they can add.


----------



## hakunamakaka

BobJS said:


> If you mean compressed into FLAC, then yes, I agree.  I probably should have said lossy rather than compressed.  Granted, depending on the specific codec (I'm looking at YOU, LDAC), most people would be hard pressed to hear the difference.  If I'm listening critically, I can certainly hear the difference between AAC and lossless.  Less so, AptX.  And even less so LDAC.
> 
> But a lossy compression by definition means information has been removed from the original signal.  Everything else is a question of compromises that may or may not be acceptable.




AAC and AptX should sound the same. I'm not that gifted, but I do believe that you could spot a difference between lower quality codecs and lossy. In reality you can make 320kbps file to sound identical to any highest quality audio format. For stereo listening even 128kbps file can give you hi-res quality. 

S1 stands strong against similar dongles. I've sold both of my portable amps, DFR(a bit harsh sometimes), HA-2 where S1 matched in SQ, with less power, but way more pocket friendly size + EQ presets which can give you holographic experience. Even though S1 is a very good unit, but I have to be fair that UP4 is in the same sound quality league(if we disregard EQ presets on S1)  and is way more convenient. For a portable, but desktop use only I would say go for S1, if you are planning to use it on the go as well, than there is no debate


----------



## NCUS (Aug 23, 2020)

I think it's dangerous to make blanket statements.  A person using AAC, AptX, LDAC is listening to a different signal than the original because even LDAC uses lossy compression. Different dongles also have different analog sections.  Some people won't be able to hear the difference and some people can hear the difference.  This is just like some people can hear the difference between an english horn and an oboe and some people think they sound the same.  This is what makes us human instead of robots and is a good thing.


----------



## povidlo

Received my S1 yesterday. 

Transferred 1.0.7 firmware and sat staring at the WAITING screen like a shmuck..... turns out my unit was manufactured in August so it already includes latest firmware. 

Very impressed so far! Nice SQ even with just the single-ended output and the jack not being burnt in at all. Ability for L/H gain, volume control, and DSP/EQ is insane in such a small and well-built unit.  

Only issue so far I noticed even with SE output in low gain my Xelento picked up a lot of noise from older recordings that are noisy on their own. Might be an issue with either noisy USB-C on my S10e or with S1 output itself. Will try later to see if it's less noisy with either Jitterbug or EarBuddy.

Stock cable seems decent: braided and gold-plated. I did also pick up the short thunderbolt cable suggested by @bflat . Haven't noticed any difference yet, both seem to work fine. 

S1 nor other Lotoo products are no longer available from Linsoul from what I can tell, I guess due to authorized dealers issue. I am satisfied with their service though. S1 came in tracked, quickly, and no duties. They said they would cover warranty for one year, and cover shipping to China if there are any issues within the first month as well.


----------



## BobJS

hakunamakaka said:


> *AAC and AptX should sound the same.* I'm not that gifted, but I do believe that you could spot a difference between lower quality codecs and lossy. In reality you can make 320kbps file to sound identical to any highest quality audio format. For stereo listening even 128kbps file can give you hi-res quality.
> 
> S1 stands strong against similar dongles. I've sold both of my portable amps, DFR(a bit harsh sometimes), HA-2 where S1 matched in SQ, with less power, but way more pocket friendly size + EQ presets which can give you holographic experience. Even though S1 is a very good unit, but I have to be fair that UP4 is in the same sound quality league(if we disregard EQ presets on S1)  and is way more convenient. For a portable, but desktop use only I would say go for S1, if you are planning to use it on the go as well, than there is no debate



Maybe in an iOS environment (which I don't use), but in Android, AAC is poorly implemented and is a notoriously poorer performer than AptX.  Ready for double-blind test.


----------



## hakunamakaka

BobJS said:


> Maybe in an iOS environment (which I don't use), but in Android, AAC is poorly implemented and is a notoriously poorer performer than AptX.  Ready for double-blind test.



AAC on iOS is a step ahead than on Androids. I'm not surprised that you can easily spot the difference. With LDAC and clean amping though... I think people with trained ears could easily make mistakes during blind tests. Would be really interesting to see


----------



## xkoo

did anyone burn Paw S1? any success to improve the sound?


----------



## rustyvinyl

I wonder how this compares......Beam 2s, MQA, 4.4. let's see....

https://www.facebook.com/100774118342325/posts/148631436889926/


----------



## twister6

rustyvinyl said:


> I wonder how this compares......Beam 2s, MQA, 4.4. let's see....
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/100774118342325/posts/148631436889926/



Did they post output power spec?  Also, didn't see any mentioning of MQA in that FB post.  With 4.4mm output only and no mentioning of output power and/or gain control, it could be less versatile than S1.


----------



## AlexCBSN

rustyvinyl said:


> I wonder how this compares......Beam 2s, MQA, 4.4. let's see....
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/100774118342325/posts/148631436889926/


The


rustyvinyl said:


> I wonder how this compares......Beam 2s, MQA, 4.4. let's see....
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/100774118342325/posts/148631436889926/



The current audirect actually is quite outstanding, looking forward to it


----------



## xkoo

I have Beam2 and Lotoo paw S1.
Beam2 draws more power and is MQA compatible it has 2.5mm Balanced and 3.5mm output, 2.5mm balanced is very powerful, Beam 2 does not have EQ presets or any other options from Lotoo like gain, screen or easy firmware update!
I see new Beam2s is only 4.4mm balanced guess not too much has been changed again it will draw too much power, this is my assumption and MQA guess same as old one.
So I prefer to stay and use Lotoo paw S1 and one day maybe MQA will be available but I still think is a way better option.


----------



## rustyvinyl

twister6 said:


> Did they post output power spec?  Also, didn't see any mentioning of MQA in that FB post.  With 4.4mm output only and no mentioning of output power and/or gain control, it could be less versatile than S1.



SG$ 201.27 26%OFF | Hilidac Audirect Beam 2S USB DAC & Headphone Amplifier Full MQA Rendering ESS9281C Pro DSD128 32Bit/384kHz Balanced 4.4mm output https://a.aliexpress.com/_dVzbZNI


----------



## musicday

rustyvinyl said:


> I wonder how this compares......Beam 2s, MQA, 4.4. let's see....
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/100774118342325/posts/148631436889926/


DSD 128 playback is not native in the Beam 2.


----------



## bnupy

the m9 with the S1. the sub bass is nice!


----------



## Melt28

The included cable is absolute garbage. It wouldn't work with my S8 and had significant popping and distortion. I replaced it with an Anker powerline iii I grabbed online and all those problems have been solved. Maybe I got a defective cable? Either way, the S1 has been great for me otherwise.


----------



## musicday

Melt28 said:


> The included cable is absolute garbage. It wouldn't work with my S8 and had significant popping and distortion. I replaced it with an Anker powerline iii I grabbed online and all those problems have been solved. Maybe I got a defective cable? Either way, the S1 has been great for me otherwise.


Mist likely your cable was defective, I use mine pretty much all the time and have no problems whatsoever.


----------



## luisandre (Aug 26, 2020)

I think I have an issue with my paw s1.
It works perfect connected with my iMac with Audirvana, works perfect with my iPad Pro with Tidal, but with my iPhoneX it doesn't work....
The light on the screen is turned on but when I press play, the sound comes out from the iPhone speakers and not from the paw s1.
Anyone experienced this?
Thanks!!


*Solved!!! Restarted the iPhone and it works perfect now!!*


----------



## luisandre

Something is intriguing, the file format using an iPhone shown on s1 is always 32bit. 96K/32b, 44K/32b... why is that?
I am using Tidal Masters and I know some files are really 44K/16bit...
Is s1 upsamplig all the time?

Thanks!


----------



## svsabado

musicday said:


> The silicone case is the best I've seen for any portable device.


Looks good. Just bought one.


----------



## Bondipix

I got mine yesterday.

There is an official distributor here in Budapest - Muzix Group 
(https://muzix.hu/infomedia-lotoo-paw-s1-high-end-hordozhato-usb-dac-es-fejhallgato-erosito.html) 
Very nice people - english spoken - highly recommended! 
They have the entire Lotoo Paw range it seemed to me.

I tried the S1 with the iPhone 8 and the official lightning cable; The LG V30 usb C cable and an Astell&Kern AK70 with a usb C to micro usb cable (have no idea where I got this from) - All working flawlessly.
I used iBasso iems - IT00; IT01s plus the Fiio F9Pro with a Fiio LC-4.4B cable so I could use the balanced output.
For me, the sound is a welcome improvement in all respects from the stand-alone sources. 
The iPhone is actually usable as an audio source now!
I was impressed by the clarity and resolution, the instrument separation and overall quality of the sound. 
Familiar tracks sounded better than I have ever heard them before whilst new stuff was an even better experience.
I have absolutely no hesitation in recommending the Lotoo Paw S1. 
It makes music fun to listen to and that for me, at least, is what it is all about 
I had a Chord Mojo for a couple of years and even had the Miter combo case for using with the AK70.
In the end I would just use the AK70 on its own - it was/is good enough.
With the S1, it's decidedly better.


----------



## WareZ (Aug 27, 2020)

NCUS said:


> I just listened to my S1, BTR5 on USB-C, and BTR5 on Bluetooth.  The S1 sounds better than the BTR5 on USB-C.  There S1 is much more balanced across the frequency spectrum, pulled out more detail from the music, and sounded more natural.  The BTR5 on USB-C sounded good but imparted a roughness that worked for some music but generally was a minus.  Bluetooth (AptX) was a distant third as it really compressed the dynamics on classical music.  Not surprisingly, on some pop music, which often is severely compressed to sound louder on the radio, the difference was much less than with classical.



Again, I agree with NCUS about S1 vs. BTR5 wired... The BTR5 has a harshness that the S1 does not. That is exactly how I felt, before reading his comment.

Seriously, if I was tight on money or wanted to use my device while doing physically strenuous activities, BTR5 is great... I'm just saying, sitting here with both and having listened to the S1 for the past couple weeks, the BTR5 sounds harsher to me. Is the S1 better? That is really up to you. What value do you place on having BT? What value do you place on having a set of very different EQ options (S1's EQ dramatically changes the sound, BTR5's doesn't work with LDAC or wired at all)? What is the value of the $60 more the S1 cost? Those are things each person decides. I'm not saying one is better. I'm just saying one sounds better, TO ME.

I am no expert, but the whole idea of "audibly transparent" is kind of BS, at least in my experience. Yes, DAC's may be "audibly transparent", but the DAC itself does nothing. I cant listen to music through it. It has to be implemented into a circuit with other components. Even more so with all these dongles, since they are "2 devices"... DAC and amp. The way they are implemented affects the sound. I love science. I love facts. I try to follow them. But in the end, what I repeatedly see, or in this case hear, is what I'm going to believe.

Also, I dont do "critical listening" nor do I sit there playing a single snippet of a song over and over. I've never thought I had special hearing or "golden ears". I just put on my headphones and do chores/work. And all I can say is, I find myself getting caught up in the sound coming from my headphones, feel more energized by the sound, etc., with some devices more than others. Like the S1 vs. BTR5.


----------



## WareZ

luisandre said:


> Something is intriguing, the file format using an iPhone shown on s1 is always 32bit. 96K/32b, 44K/32b... why is that?
> I am using Tidal Masters and I know some files are really 44K/16bit...
> Is s1 upsamplig all the time?
> 
> Thanks!



I asked a couple pages back but got no response. Mine always gets the sampling rate correct but only shows 32 or 24 for bit rate. I have never seen it say 16bit, even though 90% of the music I listen to is 16bit. I am on android and using Tidal or UAPP, btw.

I am pretty sure the S1 does not upsample.


----------



## wwyjoe

Noted some posts on EMI issues when using S1 with iphone. Anyone has such issues for Android phones, particularly with Samsung Galaxy S or Note series?


----------



## jeffri

wwyjoe said:


> Noted some posts on EMI issues when using S1 with iphone. Anyone has such issues for Android phones, particularly with Samsung Galaxy S or Note series?



Note10+ user here and yes, it does have EMI issues. You might want a longer cable to avoid the S1 getting too close to the phone.


----------



## WareZ

I'm on Samsung Note 9 and every once in a while I might hear a little EMI when the track gets silent but otherwise, I have no EMI issues. Which is strange, since I always have mine velcroed to the back of my phone... I dont like to have a dongle just hanging off my phone. I am on wifi 90% of the time and am mostly using full size cans, if that matters.

On the included cable... I thought mine was broken, so I had Amazon another S1. Turns out it wasnt the cable, as the original cable worked fine on the 2nd S1. It just wouldnt work with the first S1 at all. Neither would the new cable. Odd thing is, all the other cables I had would work. Basically, the first S1 I received could work with any cable EXCEPT the Lotoo one! 🤣


----------



## jsmiller58

WareZ said:


> I'm on Samsung Note 9 and every once in a while I might hear a little EMI when the track gets silent but otherwise, I have no EMI issues. Which is strange, since I always have mine velcroed to the back of my phone... I dont like to have a dongle just hanging off my phone. I am on wifi 90% of the time and am mostly using full size cans, if that matters.
> 
> On the included cable... I thought mine was broken, so I had Amazon another S1. Turns out it wasnt the cable, as the original cable worked fine on the 2nd S1. It just wouldnt work with the first S1 at all. Neither would the new cable. Odd thing is, all the other cables I had would work. Basically, the first S1 I received could work with any cable EXCEPT the Lotoo one! 🤣


If you are using WiFi you will not experience the EMI issue.  Only when you are exclusively using LTE.  If your device has WiFi and LTE enabled it will do data transfers on WiFi avoiding the cellular connection.


----------



## rustyvinyl

I couldn't wait for MQA firmware


----------



## cocolinho

@rustyvinyl what's that? Do I see a 4.4 output as well?


----------



## MatusSVK

rustyvinyl said:


> I couldn't wait for MQA firmware


What is the second dongle🤔?

Looks nice!


----------



## rustyvinyl

I posted on this a page before.

SG$ 201.27 26%OFF | Hilidac Audirect Beam 2S USB DAC & Headphone Amplifier Full MQA Rendering ESS9281C Pro DSD128 32Bit/384kHz Balanced 4.4mm output https://a.aliexpress.com/_dVzbZNI


----------



## MatusSVK

rustyvinyl said:


> I posted on this a page before.
> 
> SG$ 201.27 26%OFF | Hilidac Audirect Beam 2S USB DAC & Headphone Amplifier Full MQA Rendering ESS9281C Pro DSD128 32Bit/384kHz Balanced 4.4mm output https://a.aliexpress.com/_dVzbZNI


Thanks, just checked it out.

Could you do a quick comparison maybe (if you have it) looks really interesting.


----------



## luisandre

WareZ said:


> I asked a couple pages back but got no response. Mine always gets the sampling rate correct but only shows 32 or 24 for bit rate. I have never seen it say 16bit, even though 90% of the music I listen to is 16bit. I am on android and using Tidal or UAPP, btw.
> 
> I am pretty sure the S1 does not upsample.


I think that happens only with phones and tablets. On my iMac, using Audirvana, it displays the correct bit rate.


----------



## musicday

I am enjoying the Lotoo Paw S1 very much. Best purchase of the year for me.


----------



## Bondipix

musicday said:


> I am enjoying the Lotoo Paw S1 very much. Best purchase of the year for me.


I'll second that!


----------



## AlexCBSN

rustyvinyl said:


> I couldn't wait for MQA firmware


Awesome! How you like it? I think the beam 2 is actually quite good, Not on par with the s1 but quite close


----------



## rustyvinyl (Aug 28, 2020)

MatusSVK said:


> Thanks, just checked it out.
> 
> Could you do a quick comparison maybe (if you have it) looks really interesting.





AlexCBSN said:


> Awesome! How you like it? I think the beam 2 is actually quite good, Not on par with the s1 but quite close



I'm keeping both!
I use dongles only when I'm out and about..playing downloaded contents with Tidal app on iPhone.
To me, early impressions are that Beam 2s is a little on the brighter side of neutral, and with more forward mids. 
With MQA on my setup, it's has more dynamics and sounded more lively(edited spelling)


----------



## wwyjoe (Aug 28, 2020)

I've the Beam 2S too, pairing with my Note 20 Ultra. Great musical sound, comparable if not slightly better than LG V60, in my opinion. Better in terms of wider soundstage, tad brighter (which one may think sounds clearer), more bass quantity, but all these are just marginal improvements. The LG V60 by itself already sounds very good

Bad news, there is too much EMI pickup with 2S when my phone data (LTE) is turned on. Tried swapping various dedicated DAC OTG TypeC cables, but doesn't help. Turning to airplane mode eliminates the EMI, but not practical

Am holding back buying S1 given my 2S EMI experience


----------



## AlexCBSN

@rustyvinyl it sounds like Audirect retained the house sound, good thing is that they update their sound with each firmware, at the beggining the beam2 was nasty, third fw actually gave a decent sound, fourth was quite outstanding, you can roll back into FW's to your liking, for sure they'll update their fw you'll see

@wwyjoe only thing i can say about the s1 is that it is comparable with my top daps (Sony wm1a modded FW and Cayin n6II e01) of course they are 3 different flavors, but they all have something in common: sound isn't digital flavored, actually i praise the s1 since its so small and the sound signature is outstanding (right now im hooked to it through my Mac, using tidal, Motorpsycho newest album sounds outstanding since theres a bunch of layering inside each track)

i do second that is my best purchase of the year along with a bargain i got for a zx300 for 240 usd, Sony's modded firmwares are quite amazing.


----------



## MatusSVK

Has anyone compared the S1 to the new Earmen Sparrow. They do have the same DAC, but the Sparrow is more expensive.


----------



## musicday

Has anyone tried to connect the S1 to a TV? I will check later to see if my Samsung TV from 2016 can work.


----------



## cleg

My video about S1


----------



## musicday

cleg said:


> My video about S1



What took you so long


----------



## doctorjuggles

I’ve searched the thread and can’t seem to find any details but can this be used at the same time as charging your phone (Android) if you buy The right dual USB splitter?


----------



## musicday

doctorjuggles said:


> I’ve searched the thread and can’t seem to find any details but can this be used at the same time as charging your phone (Android) if you buy The right dual USB splitter?


I don't think it will, but it works connected to your laptop while charging it


----------



## cleg

musicday said:


> What took you so long



Quarantine and stupid government of my homeland )))


----------



## auronthas

HuoYuanJia said:


> Not quite sure what the EQ Preset Radio is for. Who wants to listen to that?


Could be EQ radio more emphasize on vocal, mid-range frequency. Sorry for late post.


----------



## Liberatus

I just picked up a paw s1 to use on quick go with my IEMs when I don't want to carry my DAP and when I was to use iems with videos. I've read back a few pages but haven't found an answer to my question so I'm going to post here. My apologies if it's been answered before. 

Does everyone just set their source to max volume and then control volume on the s1? For example, max volume on phone, paw s1 volume control from there (low volume settings in this setup) 
From memory of the audio world usually you set a source to max and control volume on the amp so I'm wondering if this is the recommended setup with the s1 or if I should set my phone to maybe half volume and the s1 to where I want the sound at. Or in Reverse, s1 near max, phone to control volume. 

Any insights are appreciated!


----------



## jsmiller58

Liberatus said:


> I just picked up a paw s1 to use on quick go with my IEMs when I don't want to carry my DAP and when I was to use iems with videos. I've read back a few pages but haven't found an answer to my question so I'm going to post here. My apologies if it's been answered before.
> 
> Does everyone just set their source to max volume and then control volume on the s1? For example, max volume on phone, paw s1 volume control from there (low volume settings in this setup)
> From memory of the audio world usually you set a source to max and control volume on the amp so I'm wondering if this is the recommended setup with the s1 or if I should set my phone to maybe half volume and the s1 to where I want the sound at. Or in Reverse, s1 near max, phone to control volume.
> ...


I understand it the same as you do...  Max out your source - it is a digital output so you won’t introduce any distortion.  Then tune the volume on the S1. You want to run your final amp stage (S1) at the lowest comfortable volume to avoid distortion - the higher the volume of your source the less the amp,needs to be pushed to its limit where it will possibly begin to distort.

I am able to independently adjust volume on both my Android phone and my S1.  I think I can also do the same on my iPad. I don’t have an iPhone to test.


----------



## AlexCBSN (Sep 3, 2020)

Liberatus said:


> I just picked up a paw s1 to use on quick go with my IEMs when I don't want to carry my DAP and when I was to use iems with videos. I've read back a few pages but haven't found an answer to my question so I'm going to post here. My apologies if it's been answered before.
> 
> Does everyone just set their source to max volume and then control volume on the s1? For example, max volume on phone, paw s1 volume control from there (low volume settings in this setup)
> From memory of the audio world usually you set a source to max and control volume on the amp so I'm wondering if this is the recommended setup with the s1 or if I should set my phone to maybe half volume and the s1 to where I want the sound at. Or in Reverse, s1 near max, phone to control volume.
> ...


There’s not many (if any)phones that can control the volume of the s1, you have to control it from the dongle it self, volume in the phone doesn’t affect it

Just reas the above comment, though that’s not quite common, iPad doesn’t work either, the s1 has full control, iPhone as well


----------



## jsmiller58

AlexCBSN said:


> There’s not many (if any)phones that can control the volume of the s1, you have to control it from the dongle it self, volume in the phone doesn’t affect it
> 
> Just reas the above comment, though that’s not quite common, iPad doesn’t work either, the s1 has full control, iPhone as well


Yep, as you say, the adjustment on the S1 controls just the S1.  For this reason Max out the source and fine tune on the S1


----------



## Liberatus

jsmiller58 said:


> I understand it the same as you do...  Max out your source - it is a digital output so you won’t introduce any distortion.  Then tune the volume on the S1. You want to run your final amp stage (S1) at the lowest comfortable volume to avoid distortion - the higher the volume of your source the less the amp,needs to be pushed to its limit where it will possibly begin to distort.
> 
> I am able to independently adjust volume on both my Android phone and my S1.  I think I can also do the same on my iPad. I don’t have an iPhone to test.



Thank you for confirming for me.

Anyone have issues with noise interference? I seem to get crackles a lot when the usb dongle moves around. I'm assuming it's coming from the usb c to usb c cable not being very good. Any alternatives or ways to fix this or confirm its the lotoo usbc cable that's the problem?


----------



## Audiosolace

Liberatus said:


> Thank you for confirming for me.
> 
> Anyone have issues with noise interference? I seem to get crackles a lot when the usb dongle moves around. I'm assuming it's coming from the usb c to usb c cable not being very good. Any alternatives or ways to fix this or confirm its the lotoo usbc cable that's the problem?



Have you tried using another cable?


----------



## Liberatus

Audiosolace said:


> Have you tried using another cable?


I have not. I don't have any special usb c to usb cables. Most are long and just standard phone charger ones


----------



## Monkeyk2010

Liberatus said:


> I have not. I don't have any special usb c to usb cables. Most are long and just standard phone charger ones


I had the same problem and bought the ddhifi tc05, problem solved!


----------



## WareZ (Sep 4, 2020)

Liberatus said:


> I just picked up a paw s1 to use on quick go with my IEMs when I don't want to carry my DAP and when I was to use iems with videos. I've read back a few pages but haven't found an answer to my question so I'm going to post here. My apologies if it's been answered before.
> 
> Does everyone just set their source to max volume and then control volume on the s1? For example, max volume on phone, paw s1 volume control from there (low volume settings in this setup)
> From memory of the audio world usually you set a source to max and control volume on the amp so I'm wondering if this is the recommended setup with the s1 or if I should set my phone to maybe half volume and the s1 to where I want the sound at. Or in Reverse, s1 near max, phone to control volume.
> ...



I set my source (phone) to max. As far as I know, this is still considered "best practice"... I would probably do it either way though; I think it sounds better when the source is at 100%.

That is for Spotify, Tidal, etc. Obviously, for anything with direct access to the DAC (UAPP/Neutron/Hiby Music) changing the source volume doesn't do anything.


----------



## jsmiller58

WareZ said:


> I set my source (phone) to max. As far as I know, this is still considered "best practice"... I would probably do it either way though; I think it sounds better when the source is at 100%.
> 
> That is for Spotify, Tidal, etc. Obviously, for anything with direct access to the DAC (UAPP/Neutron/Hiby Music) changing the source volume doesn't do anything.


That’s how understand it as well.  Max out the volume on your digital source.  Less distortion is introduced if your output stage is not driven closer to max volume.


----------



## fljoe

Folks .. just bought the S1 today .. will arrive sometime next week .. I want to use it with in iPhone 11Pro max .. is the $35 Lotoo lightning to Type-C cable the only cable that works with the S1 or are there any other alternatives? Tried searching this thread, but did not get any info. Thanks!


----------



## AlexCBSN

fljoe said:


> Folks .. just bought the S1 today .. will arrive sometime next week .. I want to use it with in iPhone 11Pro max .. is the $35 Lotoo lightning to Type-C cable the only cable that works with the S1 or are there any other alternatives? Tried searching this thread, but did not get any info. Thanks!


Apple’s cck with any usb c to usb a, the s1 comes with a converter that you could use, however I do recommend you to get another usb c cable, I use the one that came with my e1da gen 3


----------



## rustyvinyl (Sep 5, 2020)

Lighting to USB C.

SG$ 17.89 9%OFF | Lightning to Type-C OTG Cable for Shanling M2X M5s Up4 M0,xd-05 plus,NX4 DS,Fiio BTR5 3 iPhone 11 XS Max, XR, XS 8Plus, iPad Pro https://a.aliexpress.com/_mL0zfKf

From Jaben
https://www.facebook.com/32113666781/posts/10157401061971782/

From Jaben, Hilidac cable





*Edited link


----------



## AlexCBSN

rustyvinyl said:


> Lighting to USB C.
> 
> SG$ 17.89 9%OFF | Lightning to Type-C OTG Cable for Shanling M2X M5s Up4 M0,xd-05 plus,NX4 DS,Fiio BTR5 3 iPhone 11 XS Max, XR, XS 8Plus, iPad Pro https://a.aliexpress.com/_mL0zfKf
> 
> ...



Can you send again the link? It is not working


----------



## Liberatus

Do you have a good usb c to usb c cable recommendation besides the lightning one? Can't seem to find a good one


----------



## fljoe

AlexCBSN said:


> Apple’s cck with any usb c to usb a, the s1 comes with a converter that you could use, however I do recommend you to get another usb c cable, I use the one that came with my e1da gen 3


Wanted to avoid using the Apple CCK .. been using it with my Dragonfly Red and feel it is cumbersome lugging additional connectors. Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## fljoe

AlexCBSN said:


> Can you send again the link? It is not working


I found it and bought one .... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33009721024.html


----------



## fljoe

Liberatus said:


> Do you have a good usb c to usb c cable recommendation besides the lightning one? Can't seem to find a good one


I saw this one recommended in this thread (*DD ddHiFi TC05 TypeC to TypeC Audio Data Decoding Cable for FiiO K3/BTR1K/M9/M6/M11/M5*) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961312907.html


----------



## Liberatus

fljoe said:


> I saw this one recommended in this thread (*DD ddHiFi TC05 TypeC to TypeC Audio Data Decoding Cable for FiiO K3/BTR1K/M9/M6/M11/M5*) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961312907.html



Thanks, getting that from china though would take forever right now with covid. Last thing took 2 months


----------



## rustyvinyl

AlexCBSN said:


> Can you send again the link? It is not working



Try copy the URL and paste on browser. Direct link sometimes doesn't work.
The AliExpress one I have, cable is a little thin but working on Paw S1 and Beam 2s. No complain at this price.
I don't use CCK, too cumbersome when I'm out and about.
Here is a mini 'CCK'

SG$ 6.95 1%OFF | NOHON Famale USB to Lightning Camera Adapter Converter Data SD Card U Disk Short OTG For iPhone 11 Pro XS MAX XR X 6 6S 7 8 Plus https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtFPGoB


----------



## Monkeyk2010

Liberatus said:


> Thanks, getting that from china though would take forever right now with covid. Last thing took 2 months


I ordered this one, was very fast 9 days delivery to the Netherlands! Ofcourse its depending on where you live.


----------



## turbo87

So looks like Musicteck is having a “labor day” sale on lot of products including the Lotoo S1. S1 is $149 usd. Good deal. Just ordered one.


----------



## Deferenz

I have joined the party and ordered the S1. I’m looking forward to listening out of my MacBook Pro.


----------



## Dobrescu George

I made an in-depth written review, soon to upload on head-fi too, about the lotoo paw s1!  

I found it to be great, not many cons, although the price is not the most pocket-friendly one, it still sounds amazing, has EQ, and a nice overall amount of driving power as a bonus! 

https://www.audiophile-heaven.com/2020/09/6000-hands-of-awesome-lotoo-paw-s1.html


----------



## vanez1985 (Sep 7, 2020)

vanez1985 said:


> Did anyone have a chance to compare this brilliant little gem with Fiio Q5/Q5s, ideally with AM3B module?
> 
> I am currently using it with my 4.4BAL CA Atlas / Cascade / Sony XBA-Z5 listening to Tidal mostly, but getting similar (or better) sound quality with substantially smaller footprint while still being able to answer phone calls sounds very tempting.



Bought one and couldn't be happier: actually I tend to like S1 more than Q5+AM3B with my CA Atlas / Sony Z5 balanced as it sounds much less dark while still revealing nice level of details. Obviously these two come from different leagues but resolution tradeoff is negligible (especially while commuting or strolling around the city) and is definitely overpowered by portability and weight benefits.

The only major drawback has been discussed here many times already: EMI sensitivity when connected to phone with active LTE (which is typically the case listening to Tidal on-the-go with UAPP) though it's irritating but tolerable.

Minor ones are useless PMEQ settings (I almost always stick to None) and lack of power for more power hungry single-ended headphones (CA Cascade still sounds more lively with Q5).

Waiting for a much anticipated FW with full MQA decoding support as currently Tidal hi-res MQA is weirdly decoded to 96/32 or 88.2/32 depending on initial FLAC resolution by UAPP in bit-perfect mode or 48/24 (always) by native Tidal app.
Well, customizable PMEQ won't hurt either


----------



## Liberatus

I don't understand how the EMI issue isnt resolved. It's definitely not. The primary use case for this device is while on the go. So the exact case in which this is being used is giving bad interference issues with the cable provided. And alternate cables I've used have improved but not fixed the situation. The more the cable wiggles in my pocket the more interference I get and there's nothing I can do to steady the cable because I'm on the go which is why I bought this. It's unusable. If I can't listen without interference then there's no purpose for the device. At least with my Bluetooth receivers I can still listen without signal even if the sound isn't as good. I need to find some way to completely remove the signal interference or I'm going to have to just return this device. I wish they provided a functioning cable..


----------



## CL14715 (Sep 7, 2020)

Deferenz said:


> I have joined the party and ordered the S1. I’m looking forward to listening out of my MacBook Pro.


Smart move.


----------



## Deferenz

CL14715 said:


> Smart move.


I guess my set up will look pretty similar.

Is that the Odin you are running through the S1?


----------



## jsmiller58 (Sep 8, 2020)

Liberatus said:


> I don't understand how the EMI issue isnt resolved. It's definitely not. The primary use case for this device is while on the go. So the exact case in which this is being used is giving bad interference issues with the cable provided. And alternate cables I've used have improved but not fixed the situation. The more the cable wiggles in my pocket the more interference I get and there's nothing I can do to steady the cable because I'm on the go which is why I bought this. It's unusable. If I can't listen without interference then there's no purpose for the device. At least with my Bluetooth receivers I can still listen without signal even if the sound isn't as good. I need to find some way to completely remove the signal interference or I'm going to have to just return this device. I wish they provided a functioning cable..


Not much you can do about the EMI, to the best of my knowledge.  And this isn’t the only dongle designed with the same issue.  My guess is that all testing is done indoors where the mobile devices used with the dongles are connected to WiFi and thus LTE interference is completely missed since WiFi handles the data duties.  Or else all of the music is stored on the device itself so no streaming.

But as to the loose usb cable, have you tried a bit of tape on the connector to make it just a little bit thicker so it will wedge in place?  I have not tried it, but seems like it should work.


----------



## CL14715 (Sep 7, 2020)

Deferenz said:


> I guess my set up will look pretty similar.
> 
> Is that the Odin you are running through the S1?


Indeed it is. Great pairing. The LX sound fantastic through it as well.


----------



## IEManiac

jsmiller58 said:


> Not much you can do about the EMI, to the best of my knowledge.  And this isn’t the only dongle designed with the same issue.  My guess is that all testing is done indoors where the mobile devices used with the dongles are connected to WiFi and thus LTE interference is completely missed since WiFi handles the data duties.  Or else all of the music is stored on the device itself so no streaming.
> 
> But as to the loose usb cable, have you tried a bit of tape on the connector to make it just a little bit thicker so it will wedge in place?  I have not tried it, but seems like it should work.


Funny thing is neither the $109 BTR5 or the $99 5K suffer from EMI. The problem is not LTE. The problem is Lotoo's design and implementation.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Sep 9, 2020)

IEManiac said:


> Funny thing is neither the $109 BTR5 or the $99 5K suffer from EMI. The problem is not LTE. The problem is Lotoo's design and implementation.


Perhaps, I don’t use my BTR5 in USB DAC mode, only Bluetooth, so I don’t have first hand experience.  However my 9038s gen2, and to a much lesser extent the 9038s gen3, suffer from exactly the same problem.  And obviously the Lotoo does.  On the other hand neither my Hidizs S8 nor mini-DSP il-DSP have this problem.  As I said, the Lotoo isn’t the only dongle with this problem...  but I didn’t say they all had this problem  But I probably should not have said “all testing is done indoors where the mobile devices used with the dongles are connected to WiFi and thus LTE interference is completely missed.”  That was an overstatement, since some dongles do get it right.  But I am pretty sure where this issue was missed it is why it was missed, no one thought to test for LTE interference in prototype stage.  Of course the design and implementation of the Lotoo (and others) have this flaw, we have existence proof of that statement.  But that is the kind of thing early product development testing is supposed to find - no product gets it right until the testing shows where it is wrong.


----------



## Deferenz (Sep 9, 2020)

CL14715 said:


> Indeed it is. Great pairing. The LX sound fantastic through it as well.


I’m definitely looking forward to checking out the LX with the S1. 

I just got an update from DHL and it should be delivered in Monday 14th. That seems ages away.

Edit: I‘ve now just had my import/VAT duty invoice from DHL. Lovely 😢


----------



## Liberatus

jsmiller58 said:


> Perhaps, I don’t use my BTR5 in USB DAC mode, only Bluetooth, so I don’t have first hand experience.  However my 9038s gen2, and to a much lesser extent the 9038s gen3, suffer from exactly the same problem.  And obviously the Lotoo does.  On the other hand neither my Hidizs S8 nor mini-DSP il-DSP have this problem.  As I said, the Lotoo isn’t the only dongle with this problem...  but I didn’t say they all had this problem  But I probably should not have said “all testing is done indoors where the mobile devices used with the dongles are connected to WiFi and thus LTE interference is completely missed.”  That was an overstatement, since some dongles do get it right.  But I am pretty sure where this issue was missed it is why it was missed, no one thought to test for LTE interference in prototype stage.  Of course the design and implementation of the Lotoo (and others) have this flaw, we have existence proof of that statement.  But that is the kind of thing early product development testing is supposed to find - no product gets it right until the testing shows where it is wrong.



I wonder if it's possible for them to fix this issue with a software update? If they can, maybe we should all experiencing this issue send them support requests and maybe we can get them to update it


----------



## jsmiller58 (Sep 9, 2020)

Liberatus said:


> I wonder if it's possible for them to fix this issue with a software update? If they can, maybe we should all experiencing this issue send them support requests and maybe we can get them to update it


Electrical interference comes from a poorly shielded wire/trace/component.  Software would have a tough time differentiating between signal due to music and signal due to noise injection.  You can definitely implement software based filters in some cases, but the noise you are filtering out has to be distinguishable from the signal.  My guess is that a fix probably requires better shielding of the victim circuit.


----------



## musicday

Hopefully Lotoo won't forget about the firmware updates for the S1, now as they are busy with the release of the TiLPGT.


----------



## bluestorm1992

musicday said:


> Hopefully Lotoo won't forget about the firmware updates for the S1, now as they are busy with the release of the TiLPGT.


There are actually multiple new products in the pipeline besides the TiLPGT . 2020 and 2021 are going to be very busy for them.


----------



## drbluenewmexico

bluestorm1992 said:


> There are actually multiple new products in the pipeline besides the TiLPGT . 2020 and 2021 are going to be very busy for them.


what is the TiLPGT????


----------



## Deferenz

musicday said:


> Hopefully Lotoo won't forget about the firmware updates for the S1, now as they are busy with the release of the TiLPGT.


What is the TiLPGT? I’ve just done a google search and nothing comes up.


----------



## twister6

Deferenz said:


> What is the TiLPGT? I’ve just done a google search and nothing comes up.



Titanium LPGT


----------



## bluestorm1992

Deferenz said:


> What is the TiLPGT? I’ve just done a google search and nothing comes up.



See this discussion thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lot...b-dac-bluetooth.875802/page-135#post-15850296


----------



## Deferenz

bluestorm1992 said:


> See this discussion thread:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lot...b-dac-bluetooth.875802/page-135#post-15850296


Thanks. I’m actually reading through that thread at the moment, but I’m currently only on page 12 ( at that point people were still trying to get initial impressions of the LPGT!).


----------



## bluestorm1992

Deferenz said:


> Thanks. I’m actually reading through that thread at the moment, but I’m currently only on page 12 ( at that point people were still trying to get initial impressions of the LPGT!).


I think the consensus has now been that the LPGT is one of the best in the market, certainly at the same level of the flagships from Sony, AK, or Cayin. 

Given that Sony may not be updating their NW1Z player until perhaps this time next year, I think it is a good time to consider purchasing LPGT/LP6K/TiLPGT.


----------



## Denosha

Just received my S1 yesterday and have only been playing around with it for a couple of hours (ie. not "burnt in" yet) but so far i'm mighty impressed. I'm surprised that it's been able to drive everything i've thrown at it so far: 

Westone 4R - dead silent, well controlled (i find the bass is boomy/flubby when not properly amped), improved imaging, separation and clarity compared to my Fiio X3 + ALO Continental V2 combo, which is definitely more lush sounding
AKG/Massdrop K7XX - More than enough juice to drive these cans (62 ohms / 105 dB/V) on high gain, very sweet combo
Sennheiser/Massdrop HD6XX - Was surprised it could drive these relatively high impedance cans (300 ohms / 103 dB/1Vrms) with room to spare (high gain)
Audeze LCD2 - Wow, even power hungry planars? Yep!
Might try out the 600ohm T1s or the super inefficient Hifiman Arya but i suspect those are outside the limits of this tiny dongle.

I've been sticking to the None preset though, i find the EQ and ATE profiles seem to apply a veil to the sound.


----------



## Facta

Some say the S1's 120mW@32Ω output at 4.4mm balanced (and/or its high output impedance) might be too much for sensitive IEMs and advocate the need for an attenuator cable. Is this true?


----------



## jburks725

Facta said:


> Some say the S1's 120mW@32Ω output at 4.4mm balanced (and/or its high output impedance) might be too much for sensitive IEMs and advocate the need for an attenuator cable. Is this true?



My experience with my Solaris 2020 and Andromeda OGs with 4.4mm cable says otherwise. No hiss whatsoever. With my iBasso DX228, I get hiss, and with the AMP9, I need an attenuator to make it bearable, but the S1 is silent.


----------



## Deferenz

How much burn in time are people giving the S1 ?


----------



## povidlo

Deferenz said:


> How much burn in time are people giving the S1 ?


50hrs for each jack.


----------



## WareZ

Liberatus said:


> Do you have a good usb c to usb c cable recommendation besides the lightning one? Can't seem to find a good one



Woo Audio currently makes the best one from what I've seen, if you are using it with a phone/DAP and want to walk around with it.


----------



## WareZ

Facta said:


> Some say the S1's 120mW@32Ω output at 4.4mm balanced (and/or its high output impedance) might be too much for sensitive IEMs and advocate the need for an attenuator cable. Is this true?



It DEFINITELY is not. In low gain, I feel the S1 was intended for sensitive IEMs... I barely hear anything on any of my IEMs until I hit a volume of around 35, low gain. Plus, the update 1.0.0.7 decreased the volume in low gain mode, specifically for super sensitive IEMs.


----------



## musicday

WareZ said:


> It DEFINITELY is not. In low gain, I feel the S1 was intended for sensitive IEMs... I barely hear anything on any of my IEMs until I hit a volume of around 35, low gain. Plus, the update 1.0.0.7 decreased the volume in low gain mode, specifically for super sensitive IEMs.


Fully agree !


----------



## fljoe

Got my Lotoo Paw S1 today .. the Meenova Lightning to USB-C OTG cable too came in at the same time .. happy to report that this cable works with the S1 with my iPhone 11 Pro Max.


----------



## AlexCBSN

fljoe said:


> Got my Lotoo Paw S1 today .. the Meenova Lightning to USB-C OTG cable too came in at the same time .. happy to report that this cable works with the S1 with my iPhone 11 Pro Max.


Any links for that cable?


----------



## Nostoi

Deferenz said:


> I’m definitely looking forward to checking out the LX with the S1.
> 
> I just got an update from DHL and it should be delivered in Monday 14th. That seems ages away.
> 
> Edit: I‘ve now just had my import/VAT duty invoice from DHL. Lovely 😢


Did you order from Musicteck? In the EU, I got mine from Wifimedia. I find DHL are especially aggressive when it comes to import fees.


----------



## rustyvinyl

AlexCBSN said:


> Any links for that cable?



It's the same one I posted. From AliExpress.


----------



## Deferenz

Nostoi said:


> Did you order from Musicteck? In the EU, I got mine from Wifimedia. I find DHL are especially aggressive when it comes to import fees.


I’ve just had a Lotoo S1 delivered by DHL to the UK from Musicteck USA. The DHL handling fee was £11 which is about €11.89. Personally I wouldn’t consider this that much. The import duties, tax or VAT is set by your government and so DHL, if they are indeed the ones who add this during the process, should only be applying the duty in relation to your country’s tax rules and the customs form attached to the parcel.


----------



## fljoe

AlexCBSN said:


> Any links for that cable?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33009721024.html


----------



## Nostoi

Deferenz said:


> I’ve just had a Lotoo S1 delivered by DHL to the UK from Musicteck USA. The DHL handling fee was £11 which is about €11.89. Personally I wouldn’t consider this that much. The import duties, tax or VAT is set by your government and so DHL, if they are indeed the ones who add this during the process, should only be applying the duty in relation to your country’s tax rules and the customs form attached to the parcel.


Right, that's very reasonable. Very different in Austria.


----------



## musicday

Deferenz said:


> I’ve just had a Lotoo S1 delivered by DHL to the UK from Musicteck USA. The DHL handling fee was £11 which is about €11.89. Personally I wouldn’t consider this that much. The import duties, tax or VAT is set by your government and so DHL, if they are indeed the ones who add this during the process, should only be applying the duty in relation to your country’s tax rules and the customs form attached to the parcel.


Wait until you buy LPGT from the States and if price is declared let's say $2800, wait until you find out how much you have to pay custom fees in UK.
So yes the custom fees are high !!


----------



## Deferenz

musicday said:


> Wait until you buy LPGT from the States and if price is declared let's say $2800, wait until you find out how much you have to pay custom fees in UK.
> So yes the custom fees are high !!


I’m a tax accountant and so I know how much would be applied ha ha 😢


----------



## musicday

Deferenz said:


> I’m a tax accountant and so I know how much would be applied ha ha 😢


----------



## AlexCBSN (Sep 14, 2020)

Experiment time:
Faraday tape inside the silicon case... let’s see how this goes.

edit: so... every time I slide the s1, the faraday ended up moving, so I ended up placing it around the s1 (it bumps me since I don’t want it to stain with glue, nor loose my code bar) tested it in my kitchen since I used to get efi there.. USED TO! I won’t say anything yet, but I think we got it guys. will tell tomorrow around my day.

update: so there’s a little bit of efi still, but its not cracking my ears as it used to. I do recommend doing this if you are experiencing crazy amounts of efi with your unit


----------



## hakunamakaka

You don't need casing to avoid interference. Get "EMI shielding tape" from ali express, unscrew 2 screws on the bottom of S1 and shield it from the inside. There are no wires connected to the shell of S1 and you can easily take out the board with it's screen. Regards cable WooAudio USB-C to lighting angled cable is way better then stock one and I got no problems anymore to keep my phone and S1 in the pocked while on the go.

I strongly advise to do these things if you want to have a good portable solution to be used with phone


----------



## jsmiller58

hakunamakaka said:


> You don't need casing to avoid interference. Get "EMI shielding tape" from ali express, unscrew 2 screws on the bottom of S1 and shield it from the inside. There are no wires connected to the shell of S1 and you can easily take out the board with it's screen. Regards cable WooAudio USB-C to lighting angled cable is way better then stock one and I got no problems anymore to keep my phone and S1 in the pocked while on the go.
> 
> I strongly advise to do these things if you want to have a good portable solution to be used with phone


Can you share some photos of what you did as well as links to the tape?


----------



## hakunamakaka

jsmiller58 said:


> Can you share some photos of what you did as well as links to the tape?



Just type in ali express emi tape and choose the one you prefer they all should do a decent job


----------



## turopark1963

hakunamakaka said:


> Just type in ali express emi tape and choose the one you prefer they all should do a decent job


Wich cable is this one ?? It has lightning conection ???


----------



## hakunamakaka

turopark1963 said:


> Wich cable is this one ?? It has lightning conection ???




That's the usb-c to lighting connection from wooaudio, I shipped it from usa. A bit pricey, but worth it, thick and angled connections seems will last a long time. There is no audible difference for data cables, but with proper angled cable I can easily use S1 outdoors


----------



## jsmiller58

hakunamakaka said:


> Just type in ali express emi tape and choose the one you prefer they all should do a decent job


Does the EMI tape have a non-conductive coating on it?  I don’t want to line the interior of the S1 case with a bare conductor for fear of shorts...


----------



## hakunamakaka

jsmiller58 said:


> Does the EMI tape have a non-conductive coating on it?  I don’t want to line the interior of the S1 case with a bare conductor for fear of shorts...




No it doesn’t, but board sits tight in the shell of S1. I’m just curious what sort of modding is being done to S1, I think I’ve read in this thread that cables are being replaced, but I see none of them....


----------



## musicday

Did anyone tried S1 with full size headphones in balanced mode? What headphones exactly and how how the synergy? Looking forward to the next firmware update, let's see what other features will bring along.👍😀


----------



## corgifall

musicday said:


> Did anyone tried S1 with full size headphones in balanced mode? What headphones exactly and how how the synergy? Looking forward to the next firmware update, let's see what other features will bring along.👍😀


Since I use this portable I've really only tried it with my Aeon rt closed and at 72-76(depending on music) it runs perfectly fine off my iPad. Sound out of the aeons is very good. Still not quite there vs a desktop amp but I’m still impressed off what I get from the small power the S1 pushes out. On my iPhone X it will actually restart the S1 above 71 volume in high gain. This is due to the iPhone not pushing enough current out of the lightning port. Thought I’d throw that in there since I don’t see too many people using this with their iPhones on full sized headphones.


----------



## fljoe

No issues driving my Audioquest Nighthawks from my S1 connected to my iPhone 11 Pro max. The headphones are fairly easy to drive and they sound great.


----------



## corgifall

fljoe said:


> No issues driving my Audioquest Nighthawks from my S1 connected to my iPhone 11 Pro max. The headphones are fairly easy to drive and they sound great.


I'm hoping with an upgrade to the upcoming iPhone 12 that it wont freak out and restart past 71 on high gain.


----------



## SQ13

musicday said:


> Did anyone tried S1 with full size headphones in balanced mode? What headphones exactly and how how the synergy? Looking forward to the next firmware update, let's see what other features will bring along.👍😀



use it to drive a zmf eikon in high gain. am impressed given this small dongle but can’t compare to desktop amp power


----------



## hakunamakaka

Anyone who will want to get rid of EMI noise using phone, you need to cover parts of S1 as shown in photos. Not sure if it's related, but using balanced mode, sometimes S1 would randomly turn off, especially when I'm moving. S1 board is screwed only on one side, the other side is held by 4.4mm and 3.5mm connections, but in my case these were not sitting tight and board components were touching the shell of S1. Same thing would happen even without inner shielding, but on very rare cases


----------



## jsmiller58

hakunamakaka said:


> Anyone who will want to get rid of EMI noise using phone, you need to cover parts of S1 as shown in photos. Not sure if it's related, but using balanced mode, sometimes S1 would randomly turn off, especially when I'm moving. S1 board is screwed only on one side, the other side is held by 4.4mm and 3.5mm connections, but in my case these were not sitting tight and board components were touching the shell of S1. Same thing would happen even without inner shielding, but on very rare cases


I would be cautious about lining the inside of the shell with a bare conducting material for fear of electrical shorts, especially if the board is as loose as you observed.


----------



## hakunamakaka

jsmiller58 said:


> I would be cautious about lining the inside of the shell with a bare conducting material for fear of electrical shorts, especially if the board is as loose as you observed.




You can easily get electrical shorts without any modding. This happened to my S1, the gap between the shell and board is very small and if that side where you plug your headphones gets a bit loose you most likely to run into issues, especially using 4.4mm


----------



## jsmiller58

hakunamakaka said:


> You can easily get electrical shorts without any modding. This happened to my S1, the gap between the shell and board is very small and if that side where you plug your headphones gets a bit loose you most likely to run into issues, especially using 4.4mm


All the more reason to not make the gaps between the board and the case even smaller by adding another conducting layer...


----------



## supadupaninja (Sep 20, 2020)

Hi guys. When using some of the EFX presets especially "Jazz" with my HD660S in HIGH gain there were heavy distortions in the lows audible at approx. 50 volume and upwards. Is this normal?

It normalized if I lower the volume on e.g. Spotify App (macOS) and go then higher on the S1. I assume there is no preamp correction applied by the S1?


----------



## hakunamakaka

supadupaninja said:


> Hi guys. When using some of the EFX presets especially "Jazz" with my HD660S in HIGH gain there were heavy distortions in the lows audible at approx. 50 volume and upwards. Is this normal?
> 
> It normalized if I lower the volume on e.g. Spotify App (macOS) and go then higher on the S1. I assume there is no preamp correction applied by the S1?




Yes, you are pushing above the capabilies of your HD660 drivers


----------



## supadupaninja

hakunamakaka said:


> Yes, you are pushing above the capabilies of your HD660 drivers



Thanks. But I don’t think its about the capability of the driver itself as it’s actually not even really loud when the distortion begins. With „none“ for example i hear no distortion at all even cranking up the volume to a uncomfortable level.


----------



## hakunamakaka

supadupaninja said:


> Thanks. But I don’t think its about the capability of the driver itself as it’s actually not even really loud when the distortion begins. With „none“ for example i hear no distortion at all even cranking up the volume to a uncomfortable level.



So listen with none or any other EQ that works fine for your headphones, there is plenty to choose from and I love s1 cuz of it‘s eq


----------



## supadupaninja

I do use none in general anyway. So no problems at all.
Nevertheless just wanted to check if this behaviour is more or less normal for the S1 at some EQ presets/phone combos. Or do I need to worry?

Could you for example please try if yo can reproduce it with “Jazz” or “Game” + some mediocre Headphones like EarPods + Phone on full volume + bass heavy music -> if distortion begins at approx S1 50/60+ Volume on high gain?


----------



## AlexCBSN

supadupaninja said:


> I do use none in general anyway. So no problems at all.
> Nevertheless just wanted to check if this behaviour is more or less normal for the S1 at some EQ presets/phone combos. Or do I need to worry?
> 
> Could you for example please try if yo can reproduce it with “Jazz” or “Game” + some mediocre Headphones like EarPods + Phone on full volume + bass heavy music -> if distortion begins at approx S1 50/60+ Volume on high gain?


Don’t have mine on hand right now, though I can tell jazz rock and heavy bass are peq settings that does exaggerate bass frequencies, rock and bass can blow my head when on use, I do believe that they were thought for some analytic headphones or something, and still it’s not adequate IMO. Sweet, dental, far field and near field are the best ones for me


----------



## musicday

Music the presets are off all the time and movies on movie mode and I am happy like that.


----------



## supadupaninja

musicday said:


> Music the presets are off all the time and movies on movie mode and I am happy like that.


Will try movie on a real movie. If any I actually like the one AlexCBSN likes too.

Would appreciate if you could try this bass heavy presets with e.g. full volume on the source? Just to make shure its not only my unit (or me) doing something wrong. 

If I for example lower the volume on the source by SW in the Spotify app on iPhone or the Galaxy S10 regular volume there is no distortion audible on Jazz or Rock or Game even on high S1 volume levels. So I assume that S1 just start clipping (or whatever) with this heavy EQ and one have take care of it on the source side by himself.


----------



## hakunamakaka

supadupaninja said:


> Will try movie on a real movie. If any I actually like the one AlexCBSN likes too.
> 
> Would appreciate if you could try this bass heavy presets with e.g. full volume on the source? Just to make shure its not only my unit (or me) doing something wrong.
> 
> If I for example lower the volume on the source by SW in the Spotify app on iPhone or the Galaxy S10 regular volume there is no distortion audible on Jazz or Rock or Game even on high S1 volume levels. So I assume that S1 just start clipping (or whatever) with this heavy EQ and one have take care of it on the source side by himself.



It is not related to S1, you can make your headphones burp using EQ software and computer or dap output. Relax and enjoy the music 🎧


----------



## supadupaninja

hakunamakaka said:


> It is not related to S1, you can make your headphones burp using EQ software and computer or dap output. Relax and enjoy the music 🎧



Thanks for the hint. As I don't use the EFX at all in general its no issue for me anyway. I totally enjoy "none" .
Looking a movie with the movie preset right now. Actually not so bad...


----------



## corgifall

My s1 unit also has clipping/distortion on most of my over ear dynamics and planars with any of the eq presets. I don’t have an issue with any of my iems so I’m not sure what the issue would be. I like the warm preset for my iems but hate having to adjust it after plugging in over ear headphones. I haven’t tried it at lower volume levels as high gain 70+ is needed for most of my over ear headphones.


----------



## ClieOS

corgifall said:


> My s1 unit also has clipping/distortion on most of my over ear dynamics and planars with any of the eq presets. I don’t have an issue with any of my iems so I’m not sure what the issue would be. I like the warm preset for my iems but hate having to adjust it after plugging in over ear headphones. I haven’t tried it at lower volume levels as high gain 70+ is needed for most of my over ear headphones.



Could be a sign that S1 is running out of current output when driving your bigger cans.


----------



## corgifall

ClieOS said:


> Could be a sign that S1 is running out of current output when driving your bigger cans.


I feel I should mention this is from both my pc and my iPhone/iPad. I agree and it’s probably hitting a limit powerwise with high gain and an applied eq from the s1. I don’t use my over ears often away from my desk so it’s not end of the world. I sit around 42-44 on iems in low gain so I doubt I’m really pushing the little S1 at that volume on low gain.


----------



## domiji

I received my PAW S1 this week and i am really surprised what this tiny little thing had to offer. It sounds amazing! Great job Lotoo!


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Ordered my S1 from Andrew at MusicTeck and received it today
First off Kudos to MusicTeck.  Great customer support, (buying several items at the same time and corresponding with them, was offered more than a fair price for all the items together!)  My first time purchasing from them and as always concerned when working with a new company as also earlier in this thread I saw people had concerns as never having bought from them before also.  No need to worry and by far the best buying experience I've had in a while! (IMO and as always YMMV). 

As mentioned, just received the device and thought I'd give it a quick listen in between a couple of conference calls for work.
OMG! first impressions right out of the box is it sounds as good (if not better) than my Q5s with the AM3D THX amp after all the burn in/tuning I've done on that combo (and this with NO burn in time on the PAW S1). Looking forward to see how much more it improves with some burn in time!
While I have not had enough time to test them all back to back a quick run through the different ATE sound curves, so far NONE and Far-Field are the most intriguing.
Using my USB-C enabled devices the supplied and USB cables I have here already all work great.
For my Lightning Port devices, I have a variety of cables.  None work.  This is more a testament to the fickle nature of the Apple Lightning port as even with the Q5s cables that worked on it, cables from its predecessor device don't.  Now cables that I have that work for my Q5s don't work on the PAW S1. Can't wait until they move their phones to USB-C. Do yourself a favor and just get the Lotoo lightning cable and save yourself some frustration.  Will do some more USB-C to lightning cable testing as between friends I have access to many including the Menovo cable mentioned earlier in the thread, but I've always found not all Apple MIFI certified cables work on all devices.  For the S1 some cables give no power, some power the device but no sound. of the 5 cables I have on hand only the Lotoo one works.  Will try the Apple CDK cable latter tonight when done with work.

But in general, if your on the fence, go for it. 
I am pleasantly surprised how good it sounds and how small it is.
My only concern now is for its size, leaving it behind someplace after using it.


----------



## AlexCBSN

NJoyzAudio said:


> Ordered my S1 from Andrew at MusicTeck and received it today
> First off Kudos to MusicTeck.  Great customer support, (buying several items at the same time and corresponding with them, was offered more than a fair price for all the items together!)  My first time purchasing from them and as always concerned when working with a new company as also earlier in this thread I saw people had concerns as never having bought from them before also.  No need to worry and by far the best buying experience I've had in a while! (IMO and as always YMMV).
> 
> As mentioned, just received the device and thought I'd give it a quick listen in between a couple of conference calls for work.
> ...


theres no other solution than an OTG usb c to Lightning and CCK, i prefered a CCK that i got in amazon Mexico which has a wider cable than the stock, sound is a bit more robust, i found that depends of the USB c cable that i use with this, it may vary (very little) the quality of sound.

The little s1 has a great sound and amazing quality compared to many DAPS and DACS, i modded mine with romi audio and it improved a bit more in power management, feels more robust


----------



## jsmiller58

NJoyzAudio said:


> Ordered my S1 from Andrew at MusicTeck and received it today
> First off Kudos to MusicTeck.  Great customer support, (buying several items at the same time and corresponding with them, was offered more than a fair price for all the items together!)  My first time purchasing from them and as always concerned when working with a new company as also earlier in this thread I saw people had concerns as never having bought from them before also.  No need to worry and by far the best buying experience I've had in a while! (IMO and as always YMMV).
> 
> As mentioned, just received the device and thought I'd give it a quick listen in between a couple of conference calls for work.
> ...


I got the Lotoo USB-C - Lightning cable when I purchased my S1 and it works great.


----------



## hakunamakaka

AlexCBSN said:


> theres no other solution than an OTG usb c to Lightning and CCK, i prefered a CCK that i got in amazon Mexico which has a wider cable than the stock, sound is a bit more robust, i found that depends of the USB c cable that i use with this, it may vary (very little) the quality of sound.
> 
> The little s1 has a great sound and amazing quality compared to many DAPS and DACS, i modded mine with romi audio and it improved a bit more in power management, feels more robust




Does anyone has any details of what romi mode does ? I did not see any replacable compoments on this tiny board.


----------



## musicday

S1 is great, I would like to try it with Pioneer SE-Master 1 in balanced mode.


----------



## rtm33

Made a foil hat for my S1. Works.


----------



## jsmiller58

rtm33 said:


> Made a foil hat for my S1. Works.


That should work and avoid the possibility of internal shorting if you line the interior of the case.


----------



## Layman1

jsmiller58 said:


> That should work and avoid the possibility of internal shorting if you line the interior of the case.


And the alien mothership won't be able to use your foil-shielded S1 against you in the event of an invasion either.
Which is nice


----------



## jsmiller58

Layman1 said:


> And the alien mothership won't be able to use your foil-shielded S1 against you in the event of an invasion either.
> Which is nice


They’ll just network all our phones to do that...


----------



## musicday

Watching movies on Netflix works great with S1. Anyone knows when new firmware will be available and what will bring apart from MQA support?


----------



## WareZ

musicday said:


> Did anyone tried S1 with full size headphones in balanced mode? What headphones exactly and how how the synergy? Looking forward to the next firmware update, let's see what other features will bring along.👍😀



  I use it with Senn HD598 and/or Hifiman Sundara OTE headphones every day, both balanced... I enjoy it. I guess if I had to try to explain it, which I'm no good for, I would say it smooths out the Sundara's high-end, which every once in a while can come across as harsh (generally bc of recording quality/mastering). Despite this, it doesnt seem to add any smoothness to the HD598's, which are already very smooth. That's the best subjective info I could give.

  Objectively, plenty of volume for the HD598's as I don't ever use high gain with them. For the Sundara's, I am around 80/100 on volume with high gain, which is my preferred loudness level. I do have a couple 24bit/96khz Vinyl rips that are very quiet and in that case the S1 can barely get the Sundaras to that level... That's just a random and probably rare situation though, mainly due to the person recording the vinyl too low to begin with.


----------



## WareZ

AlexCBSN said:


> theres no other solution than an OTG usb c to Lightning and CCK, i prefered a CCK that i got in amazon Mexico which has a wider cable than the stock, sound is a bit more robust, i found that depends of the USB c cable that i use with this, it may vary (very little) the quality of sound.
> 
> The little s1 has a great sound and amazing quality compared to many DAPS and DACS, *i modded mine with romi audio* and it improved a bit more in power management, feels more robust



What is this?... the "modded with romi audio".


----------



## supadupaninja

@hakunamakaka 
May I ask what Torx size you use to unscrew the rear cover?


----------



## DavidS11

I attached S1 to Cayin N3Pro via USB Audio Out and it sounded much much better than with the iPhone. No interference, just pure great sound 

The 3.5 output is very clean and good but 4.4 output has an even better soundstage. S1 is an awesome little device.


----------



## domiji

DavidS11 said:


> I attached S1 to Cayin N3Pro via USB Audio Out and it sounded much much better than with the iPhone. No interference, just pure great sound
> 
> The 3.5 output is very clean and good but 4.4 output has an even better soundstage. S1 is an awesome little device.



The PAW S1 sounds better than the N3 Pro?


----------



## WareZ

supadupaninja said:


> @hakunamakaka
> May I ask what Torx size you use to unscrew the rear cover?



 "T4" size worked perfectly for me.


----------



## DavidS11

domiji said:


> The PAW S1 sounds better than the N3 Pro?



They are different and both is good. S1 sound is clean, neutral warmish while N3Pro is more warm bias with unique tubey sound. S1 has a more open presentation esp. on 4.4 output. N3Pro has a more intimate presentation in tube modes. Its 3.5 output is good too with a slightly warmer sound but 4.4 output is more powerful than S1. S1 is more versatile and in my opinion, performs best with quality source and better power supply. I enjoy both hence i leave the S1 attached to my N3Pro most of the time.


----------



## hakunamakaka

WareZ said:


> What is this?... the "modded with romi audio".




This is one of the mysterious modes, where no one shows what's being done to S1. Someone mentioned in this thread that cables are replaced, but once you unscrew S1 shell there are no cables and the board is so tiny I would be surprised if any molding is done on the board.

If it would be my guess they shield S1 from the inside to get rid of EMI noise and increase output power of S1 which can be done via software, but thus draining more of your phone battery


----------



## Nagual72

Someone tried the S1 in combination with the xduoo T10 II. Thank


----------



## povidlo

Nagual72 said:


> Someone tried the S1 in combination with the xduoo T10 II. Thank


Wondering the same!

Also, if anyone tried with Tempotec V1? That's another digital transport.


----------



## elira

The xDuoo T10 II works with the S1. I find the xDuoo to be a bad source in general, but it works.


----------



## cwtan1212

A little untidy but it solved the problems


----------



## cwtan1212

cwtan1212 said:


> A little untidy but it solved the problems



I had a layer of Kapton tape in between the casing and the EMI tape for easy removal in the future. No more interference from the phone


----------



## wondroushippo

Nagual72 said:


> Someone tried the S1 in combination with the xduoo T10 II. Thank



Yeah, the combo works really well.


----------



## Kal El

I'm considering buying the S1 because my ifi Hip Dac is so pwerful that I have to be very careful with volume knob or it blows away my ears. 
With balanced cable on my Ath-msr7b I can't listen to music at low volume because they get immediatly loud. If I put it in my pocket sometimes the volume knob moves and it bothers me.


----------



## Deferenz

I just received a little gift. I’m looking forward to hearing this.


----------



## povidlo

Deferenz said:


> I just received a little gift. I’m looking forward to hearing this.


You will not be disappointed.


----------



## cadgers

Is there a list of what the EQ settings do? Was hoping for something that is just a sub bass shelf


----------



## corgifall

The closest thing that doesn’t sound like bass murder is the warm setting. There is a website that graphed the sound differences. The warm setting does both a low and high boost if I remember correctly.


----------



## ngd3

cadgers said:


> Is there a list of what the EQ settings do? Was hoping for something that is just a sub bass shelf


Great summary w graphs

https://www.klauseulenbach.de/2020/06/27/lotoo-paw-s1-filter-presets/


----------



## cadgers

ngd3 said:


> Great summary w graphs
> 
> https://www.klauseulenbach.de/2020/06/27/lotoo-paw-s1-filter-presets/



Thanks. Wish they had just a sub bass shelf.


----------



## ngd3

cadgers said:


> Thanks. Wish they had just a sub bass shelf.


Agreed. Anyone here know if Lotoo has anyone on HF we can make the request to?


----------



## cadgers

iMongui said:


> Damn, the more I listen to it, the more I like it, awesome how small it is but how powerful can be, amazing, really. Im thinking seriously to apart (even maybe drop) my DX220 as this small piece its more portable and it works like a charm with all iDevices that I have, including Nintendo Switch on Game mode !



What did you do to get it to work on the Switch? I tried it and it didn't work for me.


----------



## feverfive

Any Mac users in this thread using this device?  Any compatibility issues running this from USB?  I assume not, but figured I'd ask anyway.


----------



## Wyville

ngd3 said:


> Agreed. Anyone here know if Lotoo has anyone on HF we can make the request to?


@Hana Yu works for Lotoo, but I am not sure if she has been able to get set up to be active again. I hope she can because she is really nice to have around.


feverfive said:


> Any Mac users in this thread using this device?  Any compatibility issues running this from USB?  I assume not, but figured I'd ask anyway.


I use it with my Macbook Pro (Mid 2012) running Catalina and it works fine, no issues at all.


----------



## povidlo

cadgers said:


> What did you do to get it to work on the Switch? I tried it and it didn't work for me.


Do this for Switch:

*How to Use UAC1 Mode:-*
Hold the “+” key on Lotoo PAW S1 then connect to the gaming device, “UAC1 MODE” will be shown on S1 during booting.

Reconnect without  “+” key held will switch back to normal mode(UAC2).

*Please Note:-*
In UAC1 Mode，Audio spec is fixed to 48KHz/16bit and no DoP is supported.


----------



## iMongui

Today i received the cable that few posts ago one colleague shared with us and yes, i confirm that the cable works. I dont like the fact that the cable itself its not braided than the original one but its a little bit longer. In any case, this is not a problem at all, i mean, being more soft it makes more easy to carry into the pocket and prevents to brake or strangle the cable so there is a pro and con at the same time depending on who you ask. In any case, its good to know that there are different options out of the original one that works with this little monster, more than happy with the buy !!

Now Im waiting for the electric tape to unmount it, seal inside and avoid future electrical noises


----------



## newtophones07

Now that folks have had this device for awhile now, what are the best found solutions to alleviate the noise issues with this device?  Different cables, distance etc?


----------



## Sluggist

A bit late to the party but this s1 is pretty awesome. Got to experience the lotoo sound for a cheaper price point.


----------



## Deferenz (Oct 2, 2020)

I haven’t been able to test this at the moment, but can I connect the S1 to my N6ii and then use my dap purely as a transport?

If so is this just plug and play or do I need to change any settings?


----------



## Bondipix

Deferenz said:


> I haven’t been able to test this at the moment, but can I connect the S1 to my N6ii and then use my dap purely as a transport?
> 
> If so is this just plug and play or do I need to change any settings?


You could - it worked very well for me with an AK70 - but battery drain seemed excessive.


----------



## twister6

Deferenz said:


> I haven’t been able to test this at the moment, but can I connect the S1 to my N6ii and then use my dap purely as a transport?
> 
> If so is this just plug and play or do I need to change any settings?



No need to change anything, just plug and play, and in this case you can adjust the volume both from N6ii and from S1.


----------



## Deferenz

So I’m doing my first listen of the S1. I’m using my N6ii as transport. I actually got the S1 to use with my MacBook Pro, but...hmm, I was too lazy to reach for it on this occasion 🙄

Straight out of the box, with no burn in, it sounds really good. If that is Lotoo’s house sound then I’m liking it. On the whole it seems fairly neutral but is already showing some detail. I think it needs to play more as it doesn’t feel fully there just yet.


----------



## hakunamakaka

I’m very surprised that people can hear the difference in sound after “burn in” on this S1 dongle. What  parts of S1 board would improve the SQ over time ? It is not a tube amp were tubes and capacitors might need a bit of time to reach it’s  full potential. I have never heard SQ improvement in any similar portable  amps.


----------



## jsmiller58

hakunamakaka said:


> I’m very surprised that people can hear the difference in sound after “burn in” on this S1 dongle. What  parts of S1 board would improve the SQ over time ? It is not a tube amp were tubes and capacitors might need a bit of time to reach it’s  full potential. I have never heard SQ improvement in any similar portable  amps.


Tread carefully...  (Flame) wars have been waged over less...


----------



## pstefan98

Any hiss with the Solaris 2020 out of BAL or SE? Thanks!


----------



## jburks725

pstefan98 said:


> Any hiss with the Solaris 2020 out of BAL or SE? Thanks!


Not on mine. I do get some EMI when it’s too close to my phone, but no hiss. Love this little dongle.


----------



## Palash

povidlo said:


> Wondering the same!
> 
> Also, if anyone tried with Tempotec V1? That's another digital transport.


I have tried but S1 doesn't recognized by Tempotec V1 and V1-A.


----------



## hotsnacx

anybody with r3 pro and s1 help me out with some info on battery life. looking to drive iems.


----------



## soas

Starting to get issues with the Lotoo cable (most likely). It is plugged into my laptop on a flat surface, but if the S1 gets tugged/shifted just a bit, the connection dies until I adjust the cable again.

Anyone try getting a replacement cable from Lotoo? I see the Woo audio cable recommended, wondering if I should bother trying to get it warrantied or if there are better alternatives?


----------



## newtophones07

rtm33 said:


> Made a foil hat for my S1. Works.



Where did you buy this foil tape from?


----------



## povidlo

soas said:


> Starting to get issues with the Lotoo cable (most likely). It is plugged into my laptop on a flat surface, but if the S1 gets tugged/shifted just a bit, the connection dies until I adjust the cable again.
> 
> Anyone try getting a replacement cable from Lotoo? I see the Woo audio cable recommended, wondering if I should bother trying to get it warrantied or if there are better alternatives?


Good cable for S1:

DD ddHiFi TC05 TypeC to TypeC Audio Data Decoding Cable for FiiO K3/BTR1K/M9/M6/M11/M5
https://a.aliexpress.com/_BOwFUL


----------



## Deferenz

povidlo said:


> Good cable for S1:
> 
> DD ddHiFi TC05 TypeC to TypeC Audio Data Decoding Cable for FiiO K3/BTR1K/M9/M6/M11/M5
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_BOwFUL


Thanks for that link. The included cable with the S1 is tiny. This one looks a bit bigger.


----------



## bflat

soas said:


> Starting to get issues with the Lotoo cable (most likely). It is plugged into my laptop on a flat surface, but if the S1 gets tugged/shifted just a bit, the connection dies until I adjust the cable again.
> 
> Anyone try getting a replacement cable from Lotoo? I see the Woo audio cable recommended, wondering if I should bother trying to get it warrantied or if there are better alternatives?



I use this short cable and it is built like a tank and spec'd much higher in all aspects to what S1 needs.

Cable


----------



## soundblast75

Still no MQA?


----------



## povidlo

soundblast75 said:


> Still no MQA?


No.

Sources (previous user posts) say it's coming with next firmware update and/or by end of this year.


----------



## musicday

soundblast75 said:


> Still no MQA?


We will send you an SMS when is ready


----------



## Sebastien Chiu

Thinking of picking up an S1 to pair with my dailies - Solaris OG and incoming Noble Tux 5...tempting, tempting.

Tell me why I shouldn't


----------



## jsmiller58

povidlo said:


> No.
> 
> Sources (previous user posts) say it's coming with next firmware update and/or by end of this year.


Is there actually a formal statement that MQA support will be coming to the S1?  I am beginning to suspect that we are all in a little echo chamber...  someone said they thought it was coming and now we are all repeating it, reinforcing the message without any factual foundation...  I hope I am wrong!


----------



## Layman1

Sebastien Chiu said:


> Thinking of picking up an S1 to pair with my dailies - Solaris OG and incoming Noble Tux 5...tempting, tempting.
> 
> Tell me why I shouldn't



Er.. because you don't want beautiful sounding audio?


----------



## Sebastien Chiu

Layman1 said:


> Er.. because you don't want beautiful sounding audio?



Hahaha yes, I got one!


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Sebastien Chiu said:


> Hahaha yes, I got one!


Congrats, just saw your post and was about to say,".. do it or forever live with the "I should have...." doubts..."
And we all hate living with that!

Glad I did, as it has the similar sound signature to their PAW6000 DAP (which I also now own, after purchasing a S1) and don't regret owning both as there is a time and place to use both! (IMO)


----------



## zerogun

I am definitely struggling to whether or not I actually would benefit from having the S1. I'm currently listening via an AK SR25 and through either my FW1800, Tri I3 or Final B2's (through balanced and unbalanced). None of these sound insufficient by any stretch of the imagination. It's only if I try and listen with my Deva that I'm having to turn up the volume a notch (even via balanced).

The itch is strong, but I'm not fully able to succumb to it 😅


----------



## Deferenz

zerogun said:


> I am definitely struggling to whether or not I actually would benefit from having the S1. I'm currently listening via an AK SR25 and through either my FW1800, Tri I3 or Final B2's (through balanced and unbalanced). None of these sound insufficient by any stretch of the imagination. It's only if I try and listen with my Deva that I'm having to turn up the volume a notch (even via balanced).
> 
> The itch is strong, but I'm not fully able to succumb to it 😅


Give in to the itch 😃 you know you want it...

I debated whether I needed it or not, but it’s a great little unit. I just use it in a different manner to my other equipment.


----------



## twister6

zerogun said:


> I am definitely struggling to whether or not I actually would benefit from having the S1. I'm currently listening via an AK SR25 and through either my FW1800, Tri I3 or Final B2's (through balanced and unbalanced). None of these sound insufficient by any stretch of the imagination. It's only if I try and listen with my Deva that I'm having to turn up the volume a notch (even via balanced).
> 
> The itch is strong, but I'm not fully able to succumb to it 😅



Try to think of "benefit" from a perspective of functionality and convenience, will make it easier to decide. If you use your phone or tablet for music or movies, this will scale up its performance, improve sound quality, give you external volume control, dsp preset effects, and add balanced output so you don't have to deal with type-c or 3.5mm adapters. Plus, the same applies to your laptop. But if you are listening to standalone dap because you want to enjoy the music without interruption of your smartphone notifications and social media updates, stick with a dap.


----------



## zerogun

twister6 said:


> Try to think of "benefit" from a perspective of functionality and convenience, will make it easier to decide. If you use your phone or tablet for music or movies, this will scale up its performance, improve sound quality, give you external volume control, dsp preset effects, and add balanced output so you don't have to deal with type-c or 3.5mm adapters. Plus, the same applies to your laptop. But if you are listening to standalone dap because you want to enjoy the music without interruption of your smartphone notifications and social media updates, stick with a dap.



this is actually where I’m struggling. I’ve got a DAP (Astell & Kern SR25), but A) I have upgraditis and B) I have questionable doubts about whether pairing the S1 with my SR25 would yield any sort of change/improvement in terms of my listening experience. It’s a neat little amp that seems like a nice addition, especially if it will be MQA compatible. I suppose I can wait until they actually release firmware that supports MQA!


----------



## Kal El (Oct 12, 2020)

For example, I purchased it to use it with my laptop and aldo with my little dap that hasn't balanced output (Sony NW-A105). I was using the Ifi Hip Dac but it was not practical as the S1.
Often I had to recharge it, the balance output is very noisy, the volume knob sometimes rotates when inside my pocket and blows away my ears, and also it is bigger than the A105 and doesn't match the stacking at all.
S1 has surely less power but it's more usable and practical.
I was going to buy the ZX507 to upgrade from A105, but this tiny beast saved me a lot of money. I don't know if I did right or wrong, but ZX507 costs around 700€ and my A105 is hard to sell above 200€.
I did the math... And S1 won hands down.


----------



## povidlo

S1 with ddhifi accessories, packing for a mini trip.


----------



## Kal El

My S1 has just arrived! Today I'm gonna try it.


----------



## musicday

Don't wait to long ! Is too good for it's size to delay it.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Kal El said:


> My S1 has just arrived! Today I'm gonna try it.


Congrats!
Pretty sure you'll enjoy it!


----------



## soundblast75

I'm very surprised, didn't expect this coming.
Got a new Realme 7 Pro, what a phone, even if you have more expensive one, just buy it, incredible value 🙂
But guess what, S1 doesn't work,
W11 Topaz, Cobalt, Hipdac, all work great.
Anything I need to know??


----------



## auronthas

zerogun said:


> this is actually where I’m struggling. I’ve got a DAP (Astell & Kern SR25), but A) I have upgraditis and B) I have questionable doubts about whether pairing the S1 with my SR25 would yield any sort of change/improvement in terms of my listening experience. It’s a neat little amp that seems like a nice addition, especially if it will be MQA compatible. I suppose I can wait until they actually release firmware that supports MQA!



If you pairing S1 with SR25, you are bypassing SR25's CS43198 DAC, from one AK to another AK ... Astell Kern to Asahi Kasei, no more AK's flagship sound. SR25 supports MQA too.

If you have extra $$$, by all means.


----------



## zerogun

auronthas said:


> If you pairing S1 with SR25, you are bypassing SR25's CS43198 DAC, from one AK to another AK ... Astell Kern to Asahi Kasei, no more AK's flagship sound. SR25 supports MQA too.
> 
> If you have extra $$$, by all means.



This is definitely worth pondering about to see if I prefer the AK sound or the other AK sound 😆


----------



## musicday

soundblast75 said:


> I'm very surprised, didn't expect this coming.
> Got a new Realme 7 Pro, what a phone, even if you have more expensive one, just buy it, incredible value 🙂
> But guess what, S1 doesn't work,
> W11 Topaz, Cobalt, Hipdac, all work great.
> Anything I need to know??


Have you tried with other type c cables? You may need to enter developers mode to play with the settings there, but even so, it still should work.


----------



## rtm33

newtophones07 said:


> Where did you buy this foil tape from?


Hi. It is just normal food foil.


----------



## soundblast75

musicday said:


> Have you tried with other type c cables? You may need to enter developers mode to play with the settings there, but even so, it still should work.


Did, all, lights up, but no sound


----------



## Kal El

After some days of tries and comparisons I can say that I'm very satisfied. S1 has more precise control than Hip Dac. Surely has got less power, but power isn't everything. I have quite easy-to- drive headphones and IEMs (most of all with balanced cable) and with Hip Dac I was struggling in cause of its unbalance at low volume. S1 also doesn't need to be charged, that makes it more practical. 

I would like to understand the difference between "EFX", "EQ" and "ATE". At the moment I'm using it flat, without effects or eq. 

One last thing: is it better to use it at low volume with high gain or highet volume with low gain?
Someone can give me an advice? 

Thanks!


----------



## Kal El

Anyone can tell me about Lotoo Paw S1 vs Fiio M11 PRO sound comparison?
Is it worth spending more for an M11 PRO?
At the moment I use the S1 with these devices:
- Laptop
- LG G8S smartphone
- Sony NW-A105 dap (that I'm trying to sell)

Thanks


----------



## sm0rf

Sorry for my _silly _question, have the Paw S1 Lightning edition the USB-C cable included or not


----------



## Lu88

sm0rf said:


> Sorry for my _silly _question, have the Paw S1 Lightning edition the USB-C cable included or not


It's included.


----------



## musicday

Wondering if this has anything to do with S1, or LPGT or maybe a new product?


----------



## cocolinho

musicday said:


> Wondering if this has anything to do with S1, or LPGT or maybe a new product?


Probably nothing to do with S1 which is already a 4.4 device.  Maybe a new "entry" DAP with 4.4mm output.... P5000 MKII upgrade?


----------



## ayang02 (Oct 19, 2020)

-deleted-


----------



## twister6

ayang02 said:


> Rumor has it the LPGT Titanium’s 3.5mm out is more powerful than its 4.4mm. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a balanced out I guess?



Then, probably a good idea to wait for the final spec instead of rumors   Many retailers get info from manufacturers ahead of official release so they can add product listing on-line; sometimes these specs are partial or not final, and they are always under a gag order and not allowed to share, but some break the rule.  And that's how rumors start in some cases where in the past I have seen incorrect specs circulating, traced back to retailers in China and Japan.


----------



## ayang02 (Oct 19, 2020)

Well then let me 🤐 and wait for the official announcement.

Edit: Rumor confirmed


----------



## musicday

ayang02 said:


> Well then let me 🤐 and wait for the official announcement.


Tomorrow should be that day.


----------



## somy1982

Any news on the MQA support?


----------



## musicday

somy1982 said:


> Any news on the MQA support?


End of the year, some say. To have MQA certified takes quite a time.


----------



## somy1982

Thanks, as Tidal user it matters for me.
Has anybody compared this to Hilidac Beam 2 in terms of SQ? Looks like it’s much more powerful and comes with MQA support.


----------



## ActuallySparky (Oct 21, 2020)

So a few months back I wrote a pretty detailed review of the S1, but we all know how the honeymoon phase is, so I thought I'd follow up with a quick post to confirm: the S1 still sounds better than any other dongle I've heard when properly powered. It beats the both the Dragonfly Red/Cobalt and the Fiio BTR5 in terms of noise floor and detail.

Connected to a phone or tablet, results can be hit or miss given the low power availability, but when I plug it into my Macbook Pro or iMac with IEMs , dang if this tiny little thing doesn't sound nearly as good as the RME ADI-2, and with an equally black background, even on the hyper sensitive IEMs like the Andromeda. When I'm not at my desk or outside exercising with a bluetooth dongle, the S1 is my go-to among a whole bunch of other source options.

Seriously - *if you're an IEM user, get an S1*. Sure you can get nominally more nuanced sound from ridiculously expensive stacks of DACs and amps, but for $160, this is hands down the best sound you can get. The next step up in quality for me is the Chord Mojo, but that's 3x more expensive, and has a much higher noise floor. After that we're getting into the $1,000 territory before I hear much of a further improvement.


----------



## somy1982

ActuallySparky said:


> So a few months back I wrote a pretty detailed review of the S1, but we all know how the honeymoon phase is, so I thought I'd follow up with a quick post to confirm: the S1 still sounds better than any other dongle I've heard when properly powered. It beats the both the Dragonfly Red/Cobalt and the Fiio BTR5 in terms of noise floor and detail.
> 
> Connected to a phone or tablet, results can be hit or miss given the low power availability, but when I plug it into my Macbook Pro or iMac with IEMs , dang if this tiny little thing doesn't sound nearly as good as the RME ADI-2, and with an equally black background, even on the hyper sensitive IEMs like the Andromeda. When I'm not at my desk or outside exercising with a bluetooth dongle, the S1 is my go-to among a whole bunch of other source options.
> 
> Seriously - *if you're an IEM user, get an S1*. Sure you can get nominally more nuanced sound from ridiculously expensive stacks of DACs and amps, but for $160, this is hands down the best sound you can get. The next step up in quality for me is the Chord Mojo, but that's 3x more expensive, and has a much higher noise floor. After that we're getting into the $1,000 territory before I hear much of a further improvement.


Are you saying the DAC part is better than mojo? I’m consider this vs Hilidac Beam 2 for my Hifiman ananda...


----------



## ActuallySparky (Oct 21, 2020)

somy1982 said:


> Are you saying the DAC part is better than mojo? I’m consider this vs Hilidac Beam 2 for my Hifiman ananda...


Well, for both the Lotoo and the Mojo it's kind of an all-in-one DAC and headphone amp, so I can't really give you guidance on which part if contributing.

Head to head, on non-sensitive IEMs (like the Andromeda), the Mojo sounds better than the S1. It has a wider soundstage and a more natural, organic sound. It has a higher noise floor though, so sensitive IEMs pair poorly with the Mojo, and benefit greatly from the inky black background of the S1 more, even if the rest of the sound is ever so slightly more dry and analytical.

The Mojo is also much larger, heavier, easier to break, and expensive.If I'm seated at my desk, I'll use the RME ADI-2 or my Mojo. If I'm in my 'listening chair' I'll use the Sony TA-ZH1es. If I'm headed out, in the office, at the kitchen table, in a coffee shop (modulo pandemic), the S1 is the best option hands down.

*EDIT* *TO ADD*: I don't use it with big headphones like the Ananda, so I can't comment on if a dongle could possibly power them well. For full sized headphones you might need something more powerful than any dongle can provide. I do 99% of my listening on the IEMs listed in my signature.


----------



## Kal El (Oct 21, 2020)

About headphones, I’m using the S1 with my ATH-MSR7B with 4.4mm balanced cable and it sounds amazing. It drives them good also when plugged into my Sony NW-A105 though when connected to a laptop it is more powerful.
I can also say that this tiny beast sounds better than DX160 (4.4mm) with the same headphones. The background is dead silent and the power is enough because the MSR7B are easy-to-drive headphones.


----------



## Deferenz

I bought an S1 and sold my Mojo. I like how the S1 doesn’t need to be charged up and has 4.4mm. I can’t believe the sound quality that can be achieved from something that costs so little, relatively speaking, in what is a very expensive hobby.


----------



## doboo57 (Oct 21, 2020)

somy1982 said:


> Are you saying the DAC part is better than mojo? I’m consider this vs Hilidac Beam 2 for my Hifiman ananda...



Don't know about the Ananda, but my S1 drives my Hifiman Sundara pretty good at about 65-70% volume on high gain (on SE output).
This tiny thing is quite impressive...


----------



## doboo57

Kal El said:


> *Anyone can tell me about Lotoo Paw S1 vs Fiio M11 PRO sound comparison?
> Is it worth spending more for an M11 PRO?*
> At the moment I use the S1 with these devices:
> - Laptop
> ...



I'm pretty curious to know more about S1 vs M11/M11 Pro sound comparison too...


----------



## Kal El

doboo57 said:


> I'm pretty curious to know more about S1 vs M11/M11 Pro sound comparison too...



I'm tempted to buy an M11 pro on Amazon to do the comparison


----------



## letlive

Deferenz said:


> I bought an S1 and sold my Mojo. I like how the S1 doesn’t need to be charged up and has 4.4mm. I can’t believe the sound quality that can be achieved from something that costs so little, relatively speaking, in what is a very expensive hobby.


I had the Mojo and the ifi Micro BL. From memory I wouldn't say that they sounded "better" than the S1. More power for sure, but SQ-wise not "better". I'm enjoying the S1 with the HD58X (High Gain, Volume: 20-30). I'm thinking about the iBasso SR2, should be a good pairing.


----------



## somy1982

doboo57 said:


> Don't know about the Ananda, but my S1 drives my Hifiman Sundara pretty good at about 65-70% volume on high gain (on SE output).
> This tiny thing is quite impressive...


Thanks, ananda is much easier to drive than Sundara, I can even power it with iPad so I see no concern there.


----------



## somy1982

My question still stands: Paw S1 (which might or might not get mqa certification) vs Hilidac Beam 2 (which is already mqa certified). Anybody has compared them? Thanks


----------



## Deferenz

letlive said:


> I had the Mojo and the ifi Micro BL. From memory I wouldn't say that they sounded "better" than the S1. More power for sure, but SQ-wise not "better". I'm enjoying the S1 with the HD58X (High Gain, Volume: 20-30). I'm thinking about the iBasso SR2, should be a good pairing.


The Mojo was indeed powerful. I think it could have powered a small nuclear reactor. It was a good dac/amp though. I always thought of it being on the slightly warmer side, whereas the S1 feels more neutral. Whether one was ‘better’ than the other though I can’t say as I no longer have the Mojo to compare.


----------



## Beh0lder

I just got mine. Regarding MQA, S1's screen correctly displays 96Hz during UAPP playback. What will MQA certification change?


----------



## somy1982

Beh0lder said:


> I just got mine. Regarding MQA, S1's screen correctly displays 96Hz during UAPP playback. What will MQA certification change?


Without certificate you can only do first unfold.


----------



## AlexCBSN

somy1982 said:


> My question still stands: Paw S1 (which might or might not get mqa certification) vs Hilidac Beam 2 (which is already mqa certified). Anybody has compared them? Thanks


I have both

LTP has the hand up on almost everything,soundstage is a bit bigger in HB2, however the hilidac has improved a lot with their fw releases, last one smoothed a lot the treble and brought a bit more forward the mids, practical wise i prefer the HB2, since its smaller and less heavy, it actually fits amazingly in my pocket without making much bulk.


----------



## somy1982

AlexCBSN said:


> I have both
> 
> LTP has the hand up on almost everything,soundstage is a bit bigger in HB2, however the hilidac has improved a lot with their fw releases, last one smoothed a lot the treble and brought a bit more forward the mids, practical wise i prefer the HB2, since its smaller and less heavy, it actually fits amazingly in my pocket without making much bulk.


Thanks, so sound quality wise you prefer Lotoo? I thought those two are in similar sizes, interesting you mention HB2 is more practical in portable use. I was hoping they sound similar but now the choice is more difficult:
Beam 2: much more powerful (240mw in 32ohm), mqa support, smaller size
Lotoo: better sound quality, physical volume control


----------



## AlexCBSN

sound signature of LTP compares to my Zx300 in balanced mode, 3d holographic and details are way better, beam2 distorts a bit the sound above 70%, LTP has a clean output all across the board.


----------



## somy1982

AlexCBSN said:


> sound signature of LTP compares to my Zx300 in balanced mode, 3d holographic and details are way better, beam2 distorts a bit the sound above 70%, LTP has a clean output all across the board.


Thanks looks to me that Lotoo is a better option as I plan to use it to drive Hifiman ananda (25ohm sensitivity 103) and IEM, no need for the extra power. I just hope Lotoo can confirm S1 will get mqa certification l.


----------



## Kal El

Then go for Lotoo Paw S1, I'm sure you will be satisfied.


----------



## ActuallySparky

Deferenz said:


> The Mojo was indeed powerful. I think it could have powered a small nuclear reactor. It was a good dac/amp though. I always thought of it being on the slightly warmer side, whereas the S1 feels more neutral. Whether one was ‘better’ than the other though I can’t say as I no longer have the Mojo to compare.


I've got them both here and think you're pretty spot on. They are both quite technical and powerful, but the mojo is _slightly_ warmer and smoother, with the S1 being _slightly_ more clinical and neutral. It's a vanishingly small difference for the 3x price gap though.

Between the two I prefer the sound of the Mojo for harder to drive IEMs, and the S1 for the overly-sensitive IEMs just for it's blacker background, but again, _slightly_ is a key word here.


----------



## somy1982

Impressive that s1 can be even compared to mojo which is several times bigger and more expensive  I’d like to ask when using with iPhone, does it easily get EM interference by phone calls/sms/4G? I used to have a cheap one whenever i use it I have turn on flight mode to make it quite, hope s1 has better shield/protection in that regard


----------



## somy1982

doboo57 said:


> Don't know about the Ananda, but my S1 drives my Hifiman Sundara pretty good at about 65-70% volume on high gain (on SE output).
> This tiny thing is quite impressive...


Hi, thanks! Do you think it drives Sundara to it’s full potential (maybe you also have a desktop amp to compare with?) 
For ananda i currently use directly on Mac and iPhone, the volume is Ok but the quality is not impressive. I’m wondering if I can omit desktop amp and just buy s1 instead. The bonus is that I can also use it with iPhone and IEM as portable setup.


----------



## ActuallySparky

somy1982 said:


> Impressive that s1 can be even compared to mojo which is several times bigger and more expensive  I’d like to ask when using with iPhone, does it easily get EM interference by phone calls/sms/4G? I used to have a cheap one whenever i use it I have turn on flight mode to make it quite, hope s1 has better shield/protection in that regard


It does get a little EM interference. Fair warning that performance is strongly correlated with the power provided by the port. When I say it's close to a Mojo, I'm referring to use when plugged into a full-power port on a Macbook Pro. Using it with a phone or tablet produces good, but not stellar results. It will certainly sound better than the iPhone 3.5mm adapter, but not Mojo-like with your iPhone.


----------



## doboo57

somy1982 said:


> Hi, thanks! Do you think it drives Sundara to it’s full potential (maybe you also have a desktop amp to compare with?)
> For ananda i currently use directly on Mac and iPhone, the volume is Ok but the quality is not impressive. I’m wondering if I can omit desktop amp and just buy s1 instead. The bonus is that I can also use it with iPhone and IEM as portable setup.



Well, I only have the S1 and Woo WA8 at the moment. The WA8 is a tube amp, so a bit too different to be compared fairly to the S1 (and it is in another league anyway...).

From the S1, the Sundara sounds... just like the Sundara should sound! There is no sign of lack of power to my ears from the S1 (Sundara's bass, treble extension, dynamics, soundstage, etc., everything is there). And I didn't tried it from the 4.4 mm balanced output...

To be honest, from my experience (and memory), I don't think you'll find some big differences with the Sundara from the S1 vs some other Mid-Fi DAC/Amps (like the Mojo / ifi Micro BL). The differences that you could find will be mostly due to the house sound of these other products IMO.  
So, with the Ananda, I really don't think you will have any driving problem with the S1.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

doboo57 said:


> I'm pretty curious to know more about S1 vs M11/M11 Pro sound comparison too...


Doboo57,

If this helps, I was using almost exclusively the FiiO Q5s AMP/DAC with the AM3D THX AAA Amp, which is close or the same as the M11 Pro
( Sorry if this doesn't help since it isn't a Direct M11/M11Pro comparison, but from all of my previous  auditions of both the M11/M11 Pro, the Q5s with the AM3D amp was the same as the M11 Pro, and the Q5s with the AM3E amp was a little bit better than the M11 but close.  Again all IMO and YMMV. )

I've pretty much moved to the S1 and enjoyed the sound so much, that I also purchased a Lotoo PAW 6000 DAP (having sworn off of Android based DAP's and using other sources with the Q5 previously and Q5s more recently) this is a big change for me.

I really enjoy the Lotoo Sound Signature with the IEM's I use.
While I really did enjoy the sound signature of the Q5s/AM3D THX AMP combo, My first listen to the S1 had me rediscovering familiar music tracks, and started the move away from my till now tried and trued Q5s!

The Lotoo sound is much more neutral/natural
The FiiO with the THX amp is a little more fun with the bass.  
All IMO....
I really enjoy the clarity of the highs on both Lotoo Platforms. the mids just seem a little more natural, and the mid bass is nice and tight.  I'm surprised I'm not missing the bigger thump on bass from the Q5s vs the S1, and in fact pretty blown away on the clarity and quantity of bass this little amp/DAC can provide. 
Now my dilemma is keep or sell my Q5s DAC/AM3E/AM3D amps or just hang on to them because I "did" enjoy them before but find I'm no longer listening to them as enjoying the  S1 and PAW6000 depending on what I'm doing and what I can take along with me.
Again just my opinion but hope it helps you out.


----------



## somy1982

doboo57 said:


> Well, I only have the S1 and Woo WA8 at the moment. The WA8 is a tube amp, so a bit too different to be compared fairly to the S1 (and it is in another league anyway...).
> 
> From the S1, the Sundara sounds... just like the Sundara should sound! There is no sign of lack of power to my ears from the S1 (Sundara's bass, treble extension, dynamics, soundstage, etc., everything is there). And I didn't tried it from the 4.4 mm balanced output...
> 
> ...


Thank you!


----------



## Kal El

I'd like to have some opinions about the EQ of the S1. I currently don't use it. I'm curious about the meaning of ATE and the difference between EQ/EFX/ATE. I'm sorry for my ignorance! 

Which one of these premade eq settings is the best for metal (prog/death/thrash/heavy) and for electronica?

Thanks!


----------



## doboo57

NJoyzAudio said:


> Doboo57,
> 
> If this helps, I was using almost exclusively the FiiO Q5s AMP/DAC with the AM3D THX AAA Amp, which is close or the same as the M11 Pro
> ( Sorry if this doesn't help since it isn't a Direct M11/M11Pro comparison, but from all of my previous  auditions of both the M11/M11 Pro, the Q5s with the AM3D amp was the same as the M11 Pro, and the Q5s with the AM3E amp was a little bit better than the M11 but close.  Again all IMO and YMMV. )
> ...


Thanks a lot for these impressions, while not giving me many technical informations, it helps me a bit. 

When I received my S1, I also did some comparisons with the ifi Micro BL. Long story short : I finally sold the ifi and kept the S1...


----------



## Kal El

doboo57 said:


> Thanks a lot for these impressions, while not giving me many technical informations, it helps me a bit.
> 
> When I received my S1, I also did some comparisons with the ifi Micro BL. Long story short : I finally sold the ifi and kept the S1...



Same story here: sold ifi Hip Dac and kept the S1


----------



## twister6

Kal El said:


> I'd like to have some opinions about the EQ of the S1. I currently don't use it. I'm curious about the meaning of ATE and the difference between EQ/EFX/ATE. I'm sorry for my ignorance!
> 
> Which one of these premade eq settings is the best for metal (prog/death/thrash/heavy) and for electronica?
> 
> Thanks!



EFX (effects) and ATE (acoustic timbre embellisher) are fixed 'presets' in Lotoo DAPs while PEQ (parametric EQ) is obviously customizable.  I think there is always a little bit of mystery behind these EFX/ATE and if it's a combination of dsp and eq.  On S1 you don't have access to customizable EQ, but you can tap into all these presets.  And whatever sounds good to your ears with earphones/headphones of your preference and the type of music you are listening to - that IS what's the best   You know how it is, everybody have a different taste in sound and effects will shape and change the signature and tonality of your specific headphones, thus it all comes down to whatever you like!


----------



## Deferenz

I am looking to get a longer cable for my S1. Would both of these work and if so is one better than the other?

NIMASO Thunderbolt 3 Cable (USB-C to USB-C)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08GLCQ...wdb_btf_t1_TOTKFbRQ9B67B?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

iVANKY USB C to USB C Cable https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0882V4...wdb_btf_t1_XSTKFbQPCV7PG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## somy1982

How does High Gain and Low Gain work? I mean the max power output is the same and High Gain outputs higher volume, it sounds too good to be true. Do I lose anything by using High Gain?


----------



## NCUS

Deferenz said:


> I am looking to get a longer cable for my S1. Would both of these work and if so is one better than the other?
> 
> NIMASO Thunderbolt 3 Cable (USB-C to USB-C)
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08GLCQ...wdb_btf_t1_TOTKFbRQ9B67B?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> ...



I haven't heard of either of these brands, but thunderbolt cables usually are more rigorously tested and therefore better quality than USB-C cables.


----------



## Kal El

somy1982 said:


> How does High Gain and Low Gain work? I mean the max power output is the same and High Gain outputs higher volume, it sounds too good to be true. Do I lose anything by using High Gain?



I’d like to know it too....


----------



## musicday (Oct 23, 2020)

somy1982 said:


> How does High Gain and Low Gain work? I mean the max power output is the same and High Gain outputs higher volume, it sounds too good to be true. Do I lose anything by using High Gain?


High gain has more power output. I guess is the maximum 70 mw @ 32 ohm  and 120 mw @ 32 ohm in balanced mode in the high gain.
For me the  Lotoo Paw S1 is portable audio product of the year. It works flawlessly and sounds great, way above its price.


----------



## iFi audio

letlive said:


> I had the Mojo and the ifi Micro BL. From memory I wouldn't say that they sounded "better" than the S1.



You had to like your S1 more though


----------



## NJoyzAudio

NCUS said:


> I haven't heard of either of these brands, but thunderbolt cables usually are more rigorously tested and therefore better quality than USB-C cables.





Deferenz said:


> I am looking to get a longer cable for my S1. Would both of these work and if so is one better than the other?
> 
> NIMASO Thunderbolt 3 Cable (USB-C to USB-C)
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08GLCQ...wdb_btf_t1_TOTKFbRQ9B67B?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> ...


Deferenz
I don’t Have first hand experience with either of these brands, but can recommend this brand on the S1, as I’m using one of their straight to 90’ angle usb-c cables now and have used on my PC’s with good results. I like that the plug is a little snug with the S1 so it’s secure and the connection is not moving or lose (worried about damage).
https://www.amazon.com/UseBean-Deli...hild=1&keywords=UseBean&qid=1603684636&sr=8-9

I’ve also had good results with the Anker brand USB-C cables on the S1.

Thought I’d pass on this info.  Hope you have similar results.


----------



## Deferenz

NJoyzAudio said:


> Deferenz
> I don’t Have first hand experience with either of these brands, but can recommend this brand on the S1, as I’m using one of their straight to 90’ angle usb-c cables now and have used on my PC’s with good results. I like that the plug is a little snug with the S1 so it’s secure and the connection is not moving or lose (worried about damage).
> https://www.amazon.com/UseBean-Deli...hild=1&keywords=UseBean&qid=1603684636&sr=8-9
> 
> ...


Thanks for that and also mentioning Anker. I have found an Anker one at the length I want. But I’m not certain from the info if this is usb c to usb c and would do the job. The connectors do look right though. Any idea?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B071XYB...colid=ZWJDSAVCKGY0&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Deferenz said:


> Thanks for that and also mentioning Anker. I have found an Anker one at the length I want. But I’m not certain from the info if this is usb c to usb c and would do the job. The connectors do look right though. Any idea?
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B071XYB...colid=ZWJDSAVCKGY0&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


Deferenz,
The description does say USB-C to USB-C and does say it supports Sync and Charge.  
The only thing you need to decide it is NOT an OTG cable if that is what you need, but it is similar to a cable I have from Anker and mine does work with the S1
The good thing at least on this side of the pond, Amazon allows easy returns if it is not what you wanted or expected.
Hope this information helps!


----------



## somy1982

Hi, I’m considering to buy it and talked to Lotoo support, and they told me mqa support will come in 2-3 months time.
Meanwhile I’d like to ask if it does improve sound quality on iPhone? I use iPhone 11 Pro Max and the sound quality is fine but not perfect, does Lotoo Paw S1 sound better than iPhone with Apple dongle (which is rated high considering its price)?
I know it has more power but I’d hope it can improve sound quality (auditable) of iPhone. Anybody who use this with iPhone maybe tried A/B test?


----------



## musicday (Oct 26, 2020)

somy1982 said:


> Hi, I’m considering to buy it and talked to Lotoo support, and they told me mqa support will come in 2-3 months time.
> Meanwhile I’d like to ask if it does improve sound quality on iPhone? I use iPhone 11 Pro Max and the sound quality is fine but not perfect, does Lotoo Paw S1 sound better than iPhone with Apple dongle (which is rated high considering its price)?
> I know it has more power but I’d hope it can improve sound quality (auditable) of iPhone. Anybody who use this with iPhone maybe tried A/B test?


The best mobile phone for Audio is LG V 50 Korean model. Don't worry the Lotoo Paw S1 will sound way better then your iPhone.


----------



## Sebastien Chiu

Week in with my Paw S1 and loving it for all things IEMs. 

Especially perfect pairing with my CA Solaris.


----------



## somy1982

musicday said:


> The best mobile phone for the Adio is LG V 50 Korean model. Don't worry the Lotoo Paw S1 will sound way better then your iPhone.


Thanks!


----------



## Deferenz

NJoyzAudio said:


> Deferenz,
> The description does say USB-C to USB-C and does say it supports Sync and Charge.
> The only thing you need to decide it is NOT an OTG cable if that is what you need, but it is similar to a cable I have from Anker and mine does work with the S1
> The good thing at least on this side of the pond, Amazon allows easy returns if it is not what you wanted or expected.
> Hope this information helps!


Thanks. I want to use it to attach one end to the S1 and the other end to my MacBook Pro. Not sure if I need OTG for that.


----------



## kubig123

Deferenz said:


> Thanks. I want to use it to attach one end to the S1 and the other end to my MacBook Pro. Not sure if I need OTG for that.


I’ve tried different cables to connect my MacBook and the S1 and it seams to be works with any cable, OTG or not.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Deferenz said:


> Thanks. I want to use it to attach one end to the S1 and the other end to my MacBook Pro. Not sure if I need OTG for that.


Deferenz,
Nope for use with a MacBook, you probably won't need an OTG cable.  Straight UBC- to USB-C should be OK, unless your very worried about battery usage, but again should not be an issue....


----------



## iFi audio

musicday said:


> The best mobile phone for Audio is LG V 50 Korean model.



If I may ask, is there anything special about the Korean version versus any other? Some OS reworks?


----------



## musicday

iFi audio said:


> If I may ask, is there anything special about the Korean version versus any other? Some OS reworks?


The Korean model has different internals if I am not mistaken, also it has the DMB TV tuner and FM radio. Haven't tried the European version but the Korean is superior and is the first to get the firmware updates. I only buy from Korea, sorry for not being able to say more.
By the way, the V60 is made outside Korea


----------



## jsmiller58

musicday said:


> The Korean model has different internals if I am not mistaken, also it has the DMB TV tuner and FM radio. Haven't tried the European version but the Korean is superior and is the first to get the firmware updates. I only buy from Korea, sorry for not being able to say more.
> By the way, the V60 is made outside Korea


I think I read somewhere that the v60 made a number of changes that some might not like.  Something about tuning changes and dropping MQA support.  Again, changes that SOME might not like . I also could well be mistaken.


----------



## iFi audio

musicday said:


> The Korean model has different internals if I am not mistaken, also it has the DMB TV tuner and FM radio.



That's quite surprising that they did it, but thanks for letting me know


----------



## piji (Oct 29, 2020)

Where can you buy this aside from Amazon US? They don't ship the S1 to Australia and it doesn't seem to be on Ali.


----------



## musicday

piji said:


> Where can you buy this aside from Amazon US? They don't ship the S1 outside of Australia and it doesn't seem to be on Ali.


Musicteck


----------



## piji

musicday said:


> Musicteck


Ooofffff... 50 USD shipping.


----------



## feverfive

^^^ Yeah...how bad you want it?  I feel ya', that soooo spendy.  I quoted a new (only 1.2 meter, so not heavy) headphone cable from a Euro maker recently, and it was likewise $50 shipping, so it works both ways, in large parts.


----------



## musicday

piji said:


> Ooofffff... 50 USD shipping.


I am sorry about that. At least the shipping is very fast and reliable even to Europe.


----------



## 8481

piji said:


> Where can you buy this aside from Amazon US? They don't ship the S1 to Australia and it doesn't seem to be on Ali.



Jaben Singapore ships to Aus I think.


----------



## Deferenz

piji said:


> Ooofffff... 50 USD shipping.


I‘m in the UK and I’ve bought a number of things from Musicteck, including the S1. It seems to be a flat fee of $50 on your order. I’ve bought single items and multiple items, but still $50 shipping. The good thing is that Musicteck are reliable and a safe place to purchase. They also use DHL, which to me is more comforting than the normal postal system. On my last order I think it was 4 days for the goods to get from the USA to my home in the UK.


----------



## piji (Oct 30, 2020)

Deferenz said:


> I‘m in the UK and I’ve bought a number of things from Musicteck, including the S1. It seems to be a flat fee of $50 on your order. I’ve bought single items and multiple items, but still $50 shipping. The good thing is that Musicteck are reliable and a safe place to purchase. They also use DHL, which to me is more comforting than the normal postal system. On my last order I think it was 4 days for the goods to get from the USA to my home in the UK.



Fair, but trying to keep my budget under $200 AUD so it seems the S1 is out of my budget for now. Looking at the Hidizs S9 at the moment.

Also it turns out I misread the price of the S1 in the first place so it was already out of my budget. Oops!


----------



## WareZ

somy1982 said:


> Are you saying the DAC part is better than mojo? I’m consider this vs Hilidac Beam 2 for my Hifiman ananda...


 
I've been using the S1 connected to my Samsung Note 9 to power the Hifiman Sundaras... at 75-80 volume, high gain, it is as loud as I really ever want it to be. This is running on a cheap 4.4 IEM cable I bought off Amazon and converted to work with the Sundaras. 
I believe the Anandas are easier to drive than Sundaras, so you should not have any issues. 
GL. Hope you enjoy the S1!


----------



## Hubert481

Did someone compare S1 with rme adi-2 dac fs ?
with a Focal clear or similar....


----------



## kubig123

Can somebody suggest a lightning cable that doesn’t cost a fortune? Possibly in the US. Thanks


----------



## Sluggist

piji said:


> Where can you buy this aside from Amazon US? They don't ship the S1 to Australia and it doesn't seem to be on Ali.


Take a look at project perfection, they'ee based in singapore


----------



## czm84

Question for those who using S1 with Hiby R3pro. What about work time of R3pro battery in this case of using?


----------



## hakunamakaka

I’


Hubert481 said:


> Did someone compare S1 with rme adi-2 dac fs ?
> with a Focal clear or similar....



I will receive focal clears soon and will check if S1 will have enough juice to drive them.


----------



## fljoe

kubig123 said:


> Can somebody suggest a lightning cable that doesn’t cost a fortune? Possibly in the US. Thanks


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lot...5mm-4-4mm-output.932676/page-74#post-15858322


----------



## twister6

kubig123 said:


> Can somebody suggest a lightning cable that doesn’t cost a fortune? Possibly in the US. Thanks



Musicteck sells the official Lotoo S1 short lightning cable here.


----------



## kubig123

twister6 said:


> Musicteck sells the official Lotoo S1 short lightning cable here.


Thank you Alex, I’m looking for something more affordable


----------



## kubig123

fljoe said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lot...5mm-4-4mm-output.932676/page-74#post-15858322


Thanks but the usb c - lightning cable is not available for the US .


----------



## fljoe

kubig123 said:


> Thanks but the usb c - lightning cable is not available for the US .



Yes .. it is available ..  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33009721024.html 
Just choose USA in the "Ships from" box ...


----------



## Matpar

seamon said:


> Dense Audio Adapt Reference has those liquid and smooth mids reminiscent of a pair of Audeze. Paw S1 is good but the midrange is a little too neutral and somewhat dryish. It's good if you are into the neutral sort of sound but the midrange on the Adapt is just beautiful.
> 
> Adapt also has tighter bass with better impact. I never liked the bass impact of AKM chips.



Hi, I did not get it if you tried to put S1 together with the BA300s mkii, and if it's the case, has it been "worthy"? 
I am speculating over this kind of combo, maybe a bit "stretchted" to some extent (the idea would be to put a smartphone at the beginning, and a pair of Isine 20 at the end).

Thnx


----------



## seamon

Matpar said:


> Hi, I did not get it if you tried to put S1 together with the BA300s mkii, and if it's the case, has it been "worthy"?
> I am speculating over this kind of combo, maybe a bit "stretchted" to some extent (the idea would be to put a smartphone at the beginning, and a pair of Isine 20 at the end).
> 
> Thnx


Paw S1 works great with BA300s mki and should work with mkii but imo Paw S1 is a little too neutral sound wise. It's a boring sound.


----------



## Hubert481

Is it still boring with EQ?


----------



## Matpar

seamon said:


> Paw S1 works great with BA300s mki and should work with mkii but imo Paw S1 is a little too neutral sound wise. It's a boring sound.


S1 with "headphone" mode make my Isine 20 Rumble and "emotional". Maybe I am far away for being "audiophile" After all, but I believe It Is a Little gem, from time to time being a tad congested.

I believe in that sense BA300s should give more body, Better separation and add some color with the tubes.

My Major fear Is about getting distortion and amplified noise too.. in that sense S1 does not seems to have that much of a dark background.. at least in my setup with a smartphone; by chance I tried from my N3Pro (USB out) and seems way Better, but Need yet to compare with same song/format to be sure.

Btw I am keeping an Eye opened on the oriolus amp, since if that "works" I can get rid of some DAPs going around the house at the moment... 

PS. Btw what Is supposed to be the "Dental" mode in S1?


----------



## Matpar

twister6 said:


> EFX (effects) and ATE (acoustic timbre embellisher) are fixed 'presets' in Lotoo DAPs while PEQ (parametric EQ) is obviously customizable.  I think there is always a little bit of mystery behind these EFX/ATE and if it's a combination of dsp and eq.  On S1 you don't have access to customizable EQ, but you can tap into all these presets.  And whatever sounds good to your ears with earphones/headphones of your preference and the type of music you are listening to - that IS what's the best   You know how it is, everybody have a different taste in sound and effects will shape and change the signature and tonality of your specific headphones, thus it all comes down to whatever you like!



As I wrote earlier on, really curios about this "Dental" mode 

Btw all in all It could be great to have a reference guide that can show users what those choices should lead to.. of course listening Is the First step in judging them, but to know the ratio behind and the desired effects would enhance the user experience imho.


----------



## hakunamakaka

Matpar said:


> As I wrote earlier on, really curios about this "Dental" mode
> 
> Btw all in all It could be great to have a reference guide that can show users what those choices should lead to.. of course listening Is the First step in judging them, but to know the ratio behind and the desired effects would enhance the user experience imho.




It really depends to what IEM/headphones are you listening to. There is a frequency graphs of majority S1 EQ presets https://www.klauseulenbach.de/2020/06/27/lotoo-paw-s1-filter-presets/

Dental is one of the most used EQ preset for me with earsonics EM10 iem. If you match S1 to similar dongles it does not sound congested at all might be insufficient with the headphones that you use. Sounds very clean for me if i don't use phones 4g


----------



## Matpar

seamon said:


> Paw S1 works great with BA300s mki and should work with mkii but imo Paw S1 is a little too neutral sound wise. It's a boring sound.



one digression: with the Dense you instead use a normal SE 3.5 cable to 4.4 in order to use it with BA300s, is that correct?


----------



## mirnujAtom

I love how the S1 plays with IMR Atens from both my iPhone and Mac, but I've been sick of losing one of two cables all the time. So I ended up with an ultimate solution


----------



## Sluggist

Where do I buy the lightning to usb cable ? Third party cables aren't working.


----------



## mirnujAtom (Nov 3, 2020)

Sluggist said:


> Where do I buy the lightning to usb cable ? Third party cables aren't working.


That's the official cable from Lotoo - works like a charm!
I bought it from a local retailer.
"Lotoo type-c OTG Cable for Paw s1: Type-c to LIghtning"
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...-a598-e3660c948008_1024x1024.jpg?v=1589918437


----------



## Hubert481

Why should this cable not work as designed?
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07N2PKF4G...olid=1A5YFJYBA1TCD&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## mirnujAtom

Hubert481 said:


> Why should this cable not work as designed?
> https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07N2PKF4G...olid=1A5YFJYBA1TCD&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it



Some users reported that 3rd party lightning cables didn't work, I haven't tried myself as I was able to buy the lotoo one with a discount in pair with the s1 itself.


----------



## Lu88

This is the list of Lightning OTG cables compatible with PAW S1 which I've tested with iPhone 12 Pro.

1. Lightning to Type-C OTG Cable
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33009721024.html

2. OEAudio OEOTG Digital Cable (Type-C to Lightning)
https://www.oeaudio.net/oeotg

3. Zorloo Lightning to USB-C Receptacle Cable w/Type-C cable
https://www.zorloo.com/product-page/lightning-to-usb-c-receptacle-cable-for-ztella
I've tested with following Type-C cables.
- FiiO LT-TC1
https://www.fiio.com/productinfo/354074.html
- Anker Powerline III USB-C to USB-C Cable 2.0 (1ft)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085HN59D3/

4. Beat Audio "Emerald MKII" Digital Adapter Cable (Lightning to USB Type-C)
https://www.mixwave.co.jp/dcms_plus...003=Emerald+MKII+Digital+Adapter+Cable&id=225
https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?s...096173890&ns=1&abbucket=4&skuId=4442662497366

5. Beat Audio "Hadal" Digital Adapter Cable (Special ordered one which I'm mainly using now. It's expensive but looks so beautiful!!)
Contact them if you have interests.
http://www.beataudiolab.com/contact-us




Of course, Lotoo Type-C to Lightning OTG Cable works fine.
https://shop.musicteck.com/collections/lotoo/products/lotoo-paw-s1-type-c-to-lightning-cable

And also this cable should be fine, though I've not tested yet.
Woo Audio Lightning decoding to USB-C cable
https://wooaudio.com/accessories/wooaudio-usb-cable


But the cables below doesn't work with PAW S1.

- xDuoo Type C to Lighting Cable with OTG (X-C15)
https://www.xduoo.net/product/type-c-to-lighting-cable/
*Because no power is supplied from iPhone to PAW S1 with this cable. (This cable should be fine with self-powered USB-DAC though. I've confirmed DX220Max in USB-DAC mode works fine with this cable.)

- Lightning to Type-C cable in the mophie cable kit
https://www.zagg.com/en_us/cable-kit-apple-exclusive
- Apple USB-C - Lightning cable
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MX0K2AM/A/usb-c-to-lightning-cable-1-m
*Because these are just for charging/data-sync, and not OTG cables.


----------



## OlosAftia

Lotoo cable seems safest bet. Assume this will work with latest batch of iPhones without issue (potentially last to feature a Lightning port - or even a port at all).


----------



## corgifall

The Apple lightning camera usb kit dongle thing also works with the S1 if you want to be able to use almost any usb-c to usb-a cable with an IPhone or lighting port IPad. I assume like a lot of portable DAC/amps, you need a cable which either has the apple chip or tricks the IOS device into thinking the camera usb cable is plugged in.


----------



## hakunamakaka

Not sure why there is a such large discussion with cables. Any cable will do it which can pass data&power these things are specified in specs of a cable. If it cable pass data&power it will pass to whatever model coming in future. There is no sonic difference from few bucks cable up to whatever price for such purpose. I got myself angled and a bit more pricey as I need it to last for a while and be easy yo use on the go


----------



## corgifall

Well the official apple lightning to usb-c most definitely doesn't work. I think it's more a compatibility thing for IPhones and IPads vs normal usb-c devices. Yay apple devices!


----------



## Hubert481

hakunamakaka said:


> Not sure why there is a such large discussion with cables. Any cable will do it which can pass data&power these things are specified in specs of a cable. If it cable pass data&power it will pass to whatever model coming in future. There is no sonic difference from few bucks cable up to whatever price for such purpose. I got myself angled and a bit more pricey as I need it to last for a while and be easy yo use on the go


This OTG-cable for example does not work for data
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07TTJNL2R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

dont ask me, why.


----------



## musicday

When I saw so much writing, I thought for a moment a new firmware update been released.


----------



## Sluggist (Nov 4, 2020)

hakunamakaka said:


> Not sure why there is a such large discussion with cables. Any cable will do it which can pass data&power these things are specified in specs of a cable. If it cable pass data&power it will pass to whatever model coming in future. There is no sonic difference from few bucks cable up to whatever price for such purpose. I got myself angled and a bit more pricey as I need it to last for a while and be easy yo use on the go



I asked because i have a lightning and usb c cable that works for power and data and it doesn't work on the s1. Discussing what works is a valid reason. I wanted options aside from the official one. I want something longer or an angled connector. 

Nobody ever mentioned sonic differences until you brought it up .


----------



## Sluggist

Lu88 said:


> This is the list of Lightning OTG cables compatible with PAW S1 which I've tested with iPhone 12 Pro.
> 
> 1. Lightning to Type-C OTG Cable
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33009721024.html
> ...



 Thanks a lot for this list.


----------



## ade_hall

hakunamakaka said:


> Not sure why there is a such large discussion with cables. Any cable will do it which can pass data&power these things are specified in specs of a cable. If it cable pass data&power it will pass to whatever model coming in future. There is no sonic difference from few bucks cable up to whatever price for such purpose. I got myself angled and a bit more pricey as I need it to last for a while and be easy yo use on the go



Please specify the cables you have tried with an iPhone


----------



## Hubert481 (Nov 5, 2020)

Is there any lightning-usb-C-adapter which is working and can be bought at amazon?
Also i am looking for an usb-C---Usb-Adapter for Computer which is working and can be bought at amazon.


----------



## hakunamakaka

ade_hall said:


> Please specify the cables you have tried with an iPhone



Woo audio angled, Lotoo S1 original cable. I haven't got a single issue with lighting to USB-C, look at the specs that it passes data&power that's it


----------



## Hubert481

>>data&power that's it

Nonsense - there are cables, that wont´t work, but have those specifications


----------



## Hubert481 (Nov 5, 2020)

This one is working fine
USB male to USB-C female
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B087R1GZ1Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Hubert481

This one is also fine and might be the cheapest
USB-C ---- USB
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07NSN2Q28/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## JelStIy

Any update from Lotoo whether MQA is actually going to be added via firmware update and when?


----------



## chaotic_angel

JelStIy said:


> Any update from Lotoo whether MQA is actually going to be added via firmware update and when?



They said they're still working closely with MQA, not sure when the f/w will be released tho.. I am waiting too


----------



## hakunamakaka

Hubert481 said:


> >>data&power that's it
> 
> Nonsense - there are cables, that wont´t work, but have those specifications



Have you got an example ? Than they are miss-advertising it. I believe you can get caught on such via aliexpress.


----------



## Hubert481

Of course, i did test it, without success


----------



## hakunamakaka

Hubert481 said:


> Of course, i did test it, without success



which cables specifically? There is nothing different in lotoo cable to any other that can transmit data


----------



## Hubert481

hakunamakaka said:


> which cables specifically? There is nothing different in lotoo cable to any other that can transmit data


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lot...5mm-4-4mm-output.932676/page-88#post-15957056


----------



## JelStIy

chaotic_angel said:


> They said they're still working closely with MQA, not sure when the f/w will be released tho.. I am waiting too


Good to know, thanks!


----------



## jsmiller58

chaotic_angel said:


> They said they're still working closely with MQA, not sure when the f/w will be released tho.. I am waiting too


Do you have any links to Lotoo saying they intend to support MQA?  I have seen a lot of talk about this on the thread, but no actual word from Lotoo.  I worry this is just echo chamber effect here...


----------



## 8481

Just realised I have not updated mine in awhile, been trying to update now but it's stuck on waiting. Can I update directly from 1.0 (I think)?


----------



## musicday

8481 said:


> Just realised I have not updated mine in awhile, been trying to update now but it's stuck on waiting. Can I update directly from 1.0 (I think)?


Yes, go for it.


----------



## rtm33

Guys, I'm selling my with silicone case. 140€ with shipping in EU. Great device, but I'm quitting this hobby since I don't have free time and devices stays in drawer for weeks.


----------



## musicday (Nov 9, 2020)

rtm33 said:


> Guys, I'm selling my with silicone case. 140€ with shipping in EU. Great device, but I'm quitting this hobby since I don't have free time and devices stays in drawer for weeks.


You will regret it later


----------



## soas

I don't know guys. Won't pretend to know how hard it is to implement MQA, but I consider it a nice bonus if they add it in later. Don't hang your hopes on it. 

Has there been precedent for other DACs/DAPs adding MQA after release?


----------



## musicday




----------



## jsmiller58

soas said:


> I don't know guys. Won't pretend to know how hard it is to implement MQA, but I consider it a nice bonus if they add it in later. Don't hang your hopes on it.
> 
> Has there been precedent for other DACs/DAPs adding MQA after release?


If I remember correctly, MQA support was added to the R6 Pro well after it was launched.


----------



## Sluggist

The ifi idsd nano that i own (the original one, not the LE or BL) got MQA in a firmware update.


----------



## richoval

Maybe a stupid question...: would something like the iSilencer help to reduce the electrical noise when used with a phone...? 

https://ifi-audio.com/products/isilencer-plus/

thanx


----------



## trez0r

richoval said:


> Maybe a stupid question...: would something like the iSilencer help to reduce the electrical noise when used with a phone...?
> 
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/isilencer-plus/
> 
> thanx



I tried older revision w/o plus, nothing helps... The best soultion was better cable with alu shielding.


----------



## OlosAftia (Nov 10, 2020)

Hi guys - btw I've been considering using this in tandem with Onkyo HF Player for some high res action through my iPhone... I take it this would not share the iPhone dongle's 24/48 limitation?

N


----------



## hakunamakaka

soas said:


> I don't know guys. Won't pretend to know how hard it is to implement MQA, but I consider it a nice bonus if they add it in later. Don't hang your hopes on it.
> 
> Has there been precedent for other DACs/DAPs adding MQA after release?





As I have read in ADSR forum on top of the licensing MQA is not that easy to implement, there would be an additional load for S1 to unfold MQA files


----------



## AlexCBSN

soas said:


> Has there been precedent for other DACs/DAPs adding MQA after release?


R6pro and r6 from hiby
Cayin n6II
A couple of iFI products


----------



## atr3yu

Why this doesn't work on Windows 7. The description says it should. Anyone know the solution?


----------



## musicday

atr3yu said:


> Why this doesn't work on Windows 7. The description says it should. Anyone know the solution?


It works !! Read some more next time :

And also.make sure your are on 1.0.0.6 or above firmware :
Method of use: Hold the "+”key on S1 then connect to the playback device, "UAC1 MODE" will be shown on S1 during booting.
Reconnect without "+”key held will enter normal mode(UAC2).

Notice：In UAC1 Mode，Audio spec is fixed to 48KHz/16bit and no DoP supported


----------



## atr3yu

musicday said:


> Reconnect without "+”key held will enter normal mode(UAC2).


Thanks for the answer. Maybe it's time for me to reinstall the system. UAC1 works, but UAC2 doesn't work for me.


----------



## Appamanna

jsmiller58 said:


> Do you have any links to Lotoo saying they intend to support MQA?  I have seen a lot of talk about this on the thread, but no actual word from Lotoo.  I worry this is just echo chamber effect here...



They state that they hope to support MQA on the S1 via a major firmware update in a reply to a comment on this post on the official Lotoo Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/lotoopaw/posts/3124881464271489


----------



## Decreate

Got the S1 about a week ago and am quite enjoying it. Have been using it with my Asus ROG 2 phone playing music through Neutron and was wondering if there would be a difference in sound quality if used with an iPhone.


----------



## feverfive

I keep watching this thread even though I really have no current use for such a device (I do not use my phone for music).  I do, however, envision a time in the next year or so when I buy a new Macbook with a larger SSD to hopefully hold my music for "on the go" (meaning, moving around rooms of my house/front porch/back deck); I don't travel much, and that was true even before COVID.

I'm hoping Lotoo keeps developing this type of device.  I know I want something that is device/USB bus-powered like the S1, as I do not want to worry about battery degradation over time.  I'm hoping we'll see them release a upgraded version over the next 12 months or so that can provide at least 300mW@32Ω.


----------



## choisan

i may have missed some discussion. i bought my wife a s1. when she plays with iphone, she said the phone volume would need to set zero, the volume adjustment is on s1.
however, she didn't have to set zero volume using with android phone.
is her s1 operating normal? pls kindly advise!


----------



## fljoe

@choisan ... Yes .. it is normal .. that is how I have it working on my iPhone.


----------



## hakunamakaka

feverfive said:


> I keep watching this thread even though I really have no current use for such a device (I do not use my phone for music).  I do, however, envision a time in the next year or so when I buy a new Macbook with a larger SSD to hopefully hold my music for "on the go" (meaning, moving around rooms of my house/front porch/back deck); I don't travel much, and that was true even before COVID.
> 
> I'm hoping Lotoo keeps developing this type of device.  I know I want something that is device/USB bus-powered like the S1, as I do not want to worry about battery degradation over time.  I'm hoping we'll see them release a upgraded version over the next 12 months or so that can provide at least 300mW@32Ω.




300mW out of such dongle is too much, I haven't seen any device, unless they have their own dedicated battery. Maybe there will be a dongle with the ability to adjust power output depending of what is being fed to it, but today laptops USB ports(5v 500mA doesn't pack enough juice and I doubt there will be a need to change)


----------



## DoConor

hakunamakaka said:


> 300mW out of such dongle is too much, I haven't seen any device, unless they have their own dedicated battery. Maybe there will be a dongle with the ability to adjust power output depending of what is being fed to it, but today laptops USB ports(5v 500mA doesn't pack enough juice and I doubt there will be a need to change)


E1DA 9038S: Balanced 2.5
340mW @32 Ohm
550mW @16 Ohm


----------



## DrumSeb

Do someone have try the S1 as dongle on the new release Hiby R2 ? Seems like they release also an amplifier FD1 and its feeding by the R2 via USB-C. 
I know most of small print player don't support dongle..  I was wondering if the R2 will have enough power to drive the S1 ?! Thanks


----------



## Decreate

Is there a difference in sound quality when using the S1 on an iPhone vs an Android phone?


----------



## choisan

Decreate said:


> Is there a difference in sound quality when using the S1 on an iPhone vs an Android phone?


my wife said sound quality wise, it is the same
however, iphone itself on zero volume (media), the adjustment is on s1. but when phone called in, the loudness of the conversation by the earphone will be huge as that didn't set to zero


----------



## chaotic_angel

jsmiller58 said:


> Do you have any links to Lotoo saying they intend to support MQA?  I have seen a lot of talk about this on the thread, but no actual word from Lotoo.  I worry this is just echo chamber effect here...











No echo chamber effect added, that was my conversation made 8 October 2020


----------



## jsmiller58 (Nov 16, 2020)

chaotic_angel said:


> No echo chamber effect added, that was my conversation made 8 October 2020


AWESOME! Thank you for sharing!  Now eagerly awaiting the results!


----------



## musicday

Wondering what else be added apart from MQA decoding


----------



## chaotic_angel

I started to miss those days when so many update came out 

Come on Lotoo dont let me hang..


----------



## Decreate

I will be getting the new iPhone tomorrow and would like recommendations on what music player app to try with the S1. Currently on Android I'm using Neutron and am really liking it.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Decreate said:


> Is there a difference in sound quality when using the S1 on an iPhone vs an Android phone?


Yes. Ios will be bit perfect audio as ios will hand over the audio straight to the s1. With android, unless you are using a music source such as neutron player or UAPP the android audio stack will be handing over all audio to the s1 at 24/48 or possibly 24/96. That is why you have volume control on the android device, the media volume, then the hardwares volume of the s1. Audio still sounds good on Android, but using same DAC it's noticeable to some ears. I can definitely hear the difference. Same FAC I prefer to use IOS, but I have a Sony DAP that isn't bit perfect but sounds amazing still with android apps


----------



## Kal El

I also noticed that with android device the battery symbol in the right corner of the smartphone has got an arrow pointing to the right, like it was charging an external device. 
Tidal doesn't work straight from my LG G8S. I must use UAPP, and the volume control is still enabled on the smartphone (very disappointing).
On my Sony DAP NW-A105 Tidal works straight to the S1 without UAPP and the volume control is disabled. 
They are both Android but work in a different way. I can't understand why.


----------



## povidlo

Kal El said:


> I also noticed that with android device the battery symbol in the right corner of the smartphone has got an arrow pointing to the right, like it was charging an external device.
> Tidal doesn't work straight from my LG G8S. I must use UAPP, and the volume control is still enabled on the smartphone (very disappointing).
> On my Sony DAP NW-A105 Tidal works straight to the S1 without UAPP and the volume control is disabled.
> They are both Android but work in a different way. I can't understand why.



Enabling Bit Perfect mode in UAPP should disable the volume control on your smartphone.


----------



## Kal El

povidlo said:


> Enabling Bit Perfect mode in UAPP should disable the volume control on your smartphone.



Thanks! This is the reason why on my Sony DAP the volume control is disabled, my fault! And what about that arrow symbol on my battery status? I don't understand what does it mean.


----------



## Unknow_Guy

Hi its only my Note 9 Has this issiue when wireless charging going on, dac turn off and music stop then in a sec dac turn on but music stay on pause? I use Deezer, i can only charge Note wireless, so its a little miss buy at this point. Any solutions? Im truck driver so phone is in wireless car Holder.


----------



## Kal El

Unknow_Guy said:


> Hi its only my Note 9 Has this issiue when wireless charging going on, dac turn off and music stop then in a sec dac turn on but music stay on pause? I use Deezer, i can only charge Note wireless, so its a little miss buy at this point. Any solutions? Im truck driver so phone is in wireless car Holder.



Never heard about this problem sorry.


----------



## Sluggist

Unknow_Guy said:


> Hi its only my Note 9 Has this issiue when wireless charging going on, dac turn off and music stop then in a sec dac turn on but music stay on pause? I use Deezer, i can only charge Note wireless, so its a little miss buy at this point. Any solutions? Im truck driver so phone is in wireless car Holder.


Have you tried another cable ? The stock cable gave me disconnection problems even only after a month from purchase.


----------



## soundblast75

Wake me up when MQA happens, what else is there to discuss 😜
Actually there is, it cuts off too much when in my pocket, have to keep reconnecting,  annoying, as convenience +good sq is only reason to use it sometimes over a top dap


----------



## jsmiller58

soundblast75 said:


> Wake me up when MQA happens, what else is there to discuss 😜
> Actually there is, it cuts off too much when in my pocket, have to keep reconnecting,  annoying, as convenience +good sq is only reason to use it sometimes over a top dap


The disconnection is due to loose usb connector.  I hate it too.  I have an old LG v30 that has seen a lot of use and if I just look too hard at it the connection will drop.  Better with my R6 Pro, but still can be fiddly...


----------



## Unknow_Guy (Nov 20, 2020)

Sluggist said:


> Have you tried another cable ? The stock cable gave me disconnection problems even only after a month from purchase.



I will try another cable.


Edit:
Cable is not The problem. Wireless charging is. Hmmm...


----------



## Decreate

Have started using the S1 with my new iPhone and sounds great. One thing I've noticed is that I seem to be getting much less electromagnetic interference with the iPhone when compared with my old Android phone.


----------



## soundblast75

Ok now it's really unusable,  will try another cable


----------



## hakunamakaka

soundblast75 said:


> Ok now it's really unusable,  will try another cable



If you are using S1 on the go forget their original cable. Get something like woo audio angled usb-c cable. They are a bit pricey, but well worth it. Very resistant and still good after a year usage without taking a care of it. Was bending their cable in various degrees, even running were cable was always moving. Such things should not interrupt your musical experience


----------



## soundblast75

hakunamakaka said:


> If you are using S1 on the go forget their original cable. Get something like woo audio angled usb-c cable. They are a bit pricey, but well worth it. Very resistant and still good after a year usage without taking a care of it. Was bending their cable in various degrees, even running were cable was always moving. Such things should not interrupt your musical experience


Thanks man, it's disappointing coz i liked the original but as i don't use the S1 often i didn't notice for a while..
Got this chap one, seems to be solid


----------



## hakunamakaka

soundblast75 said:


> Thanks man, it's disappointing coz i liked the original but as i don't use the S1 often i didn't notice for a while..
> Got this chap one, seems to be solid



If it will sustain signal while being bent numerous  times than you should be good. I  sold S1 just for inconvenience while using with phone. Now when I heard higher tier dap I ordered one immediately. Nonetheless S1 was the best sounding dongle out of many that I owned, even ones that were highly praised in ASR for “transparency” I found them cold, more artificial compared to Lotoo.


----------



## soundblast75

hakunamakaka said:


> If it will sustain signal while being bent numerous  times than you should be good. I  sold S1 just for inconvenience while using with phone. Now when I heard higher tier dap I ordered one immediately. Nonetheless S1 was the best sounding dongle out of many that I owned, even ones that were highly praised in ASR for “transparency” I found them cold, more artificial compared to Lotoo.


Yeah S1 is really good sq, very enjoyable,  but ultimately lower dap level, nothing more.
Which dap did you get?


----------



## stersa

Fantastic combination as a Desktop...  







Best

Sisco


----------



## hakunamakaka

soundblast75 said:


> Yeah S1 is really good sq, very enjoyable,  but ultimately lower dap level, nothing more.
> Which dap did you get?



That is Fiio M11 pro, it seems like a decent choice, but I’m a bit careful here. In the past I tried few portable amps of Fiio and they were not impressive, it’s that it was few years ago and they all used to go with sabre chip which was not properly implemented


----------



## soundblast75

hakunamakaka said:


> That is Fiio M11 pro, it seems like a decent choice, but I’m a bit careful here. In the past I tried few portable amps of Fiio and they were not impressive, it’s that it was few years ago and they all used to go with sabre chip which was not properly implemented


Oh the 11Pro is good dap, outside of the wild goose chase here, it is plenty a joy, enjoy👍👍


----------



## Strifeff7

sound comparison please, S1 vs Sonata BHD,
Thank you,


----------



## Kal El

soundblast75 said:


> Yeah S1 is really good sq, very enjoyable,  but ultimately lower dap level, nothing more.
> Which dap did you get?



My last DAP was DX160 2020 version and I can say that Lotoo Paw S1 is at the same level of sq. I've sent back the DX160 and kept the S1. 
Now, I'm very curious to try Shanling M6 Pro and do a comparison with S1. Maybe I will buy it, I'll let you know.


----------



## hakunamakaka

Kal El said:


> My last DAP was DX160 2020 version and I can say that Lotoo Paw S1 is at the same level of sq. I've sent back the DX160 and kept the S1.
> Now, I'm very curious to try Shanling M6 Pro and do a comparison with S1. Maybe I will buy it, I'll let you know.



What IEM's or headphones did you use with it ? When I heard higher tier DAP it was step above S1, but it was priced nearly x4. I'm using a bit demanding IEM's so for me it was totally worth upgrade


----------



## Kal El

hakunamakaka said:


> What IEM's or headphones did you use with it ? When I heard higher tier DAP it was step above S1, but it was priced nearly x4. I'm using a bit demanding IEM's so for me it was totally worth upgrade



DX160 is not high tier dap btw. For the comparison I used Beyerdynamics DT-770 pro, iBasso IT01S, Audio-technica msr7b. All easy to drive cans/IEMs. Surely you can hear the difference with more power hungry headphones.


----------



## povidlo

Just wanted to add and share that from personal experience: on high level, S1 generally sounds better than my NW-A105 (EU version). 

It does not sound nearly as good as my SR25.

Crappy part is that S1 doesn't sound its best when used as a portable connected to a phone. It's much better sounding when powered by a laptop.


----------



## Kal El

povidlo said:


> Just wanted to add and share that from personal experience: on high level, S1 generally sounds better than my NW-A105 (EU version).
> 
> It does not sound nearly as good as my SR25.
> 
> Crappy part is that S1 doesn't sound its best when used as a portable connected to a phone. It's much better sounding when powered by a laptop.



I can confirm that S1 sounds better when connected to a laptop. I've never listened to SR25 unfortunately, but my next purchase probably will be Shanling M6 Pro. If it will be my personal endgame as I hope, then I will sell the S1 and the Sony NW-A105 (that is already on sale in the market).


----------



## bluestorm1992

The much anticipated update for MQA compatibility is coming to S1.


----------



## bluestorm1992

povidlo said:


> Just wanted to add and share that from personal experience: on high level, S1 generally sounds better than my NW-A105 (EU version).
> 
> It does not sound nearly as good as my SR25.
> 
> Crappy part is that S1 doesn't sound its best when used as a portable connected to a phone. It's much better sounding when powered by a laptop.



Your observation is spot on. I talked with Lotoo engineers when S1 first launched, and they also commented that S1 would work better with Laptops, primarily because it can supply more power to S1 than from a phone.


----------



## musicday

Soon the S1 will become even better. Massive value in the portable audio if you ask me.


----------



## povidlo

bluestorm1992 said:


> The much anticipated update for MQA compatibility is coming to S1.


It will be interesting to see what unfold level S1 supports...4x...8x...16x?


----------



## NZtechfreak

Just pulled the trigger on one of these, will be interested to see how I go with it. Looks a very nice piece of kit.


----------



## hakunamakaka

NZtechfreak said:


> Just pulled the trigger on one of these, will be interested to see how I go with it. Looks a very nice piece of kit.



good decision, best sounding dongle in my books. I will have my eyes on for any lotoo dongle releases in the future. If they will be able to counter emi noise it will be a no brainer purchase for anyone who needs a bit of extra amping


----------



## NZtechfreak

So far only had a brief listen, impressions very favourable so far. Very nice build, hardware volume appreciated and not found in a lot of similar solutions, plugged straight in to my Android phone and UAPP recognises immediately and everything running just fine. Would easily take this over the Dragonfly Cobalt even if they cost the same.


----------



## Kal El

Kal El said:


> I also noticed that with android device the battery symbol in the right corner of the smartphone has got an arrow pointing to the right, like it was charging an external device.
> Tidal doesn't work straight from my LG G8S. I must use UAPP, and the volume control is still enabled on the smartphone (very disappointing).
> On my Sony DAP NW-A105 Tidal works straight to the S1 without UAPP and the volume control is disabled.
> They are both Android but work in a different way. I can't understand why.



I still have this problem with the battery symbol that shows an arrow pointing to the right, as if the smartphone was charging an external device.
Anyone with the same problem?
Thanks.


----------



## jsmiller58

Kal El said:


> I still have this problem with the battery symbol that shows an arrow pointing to the right, as if the smartphone was charging an external device.
> Anyone with the same problem?
> Thanks.


Other than it looking odd, is there anything specific that seems wrong?  Given your phone is powering the S1 maybe that is specific behavior of your phone?  Have you tried a different dongle DAC to see if the symbol is still the same?  Unless the S1 or phone are misbehaving, might not be worth worrying too much...


----------



## Kal El

jsmiller58 said:


> Other than it looking odd, is there anything specific that seems wrong?  Given your phone is powering the S1 maybe that is specific behavior of your phone?  Have you tried a different dongle DAC to see if the symbol is still the same?  Unless the S1 or phone are misbehaving, might not be worth worrying too much...



Unfortunately atm I don’t have another dongle with me, but I use the S1 also with my Sony NW-A105 and it doesn’t show that symbol. Btw it seems to be like you said, maybe it just powers the dongle and show it with that symbol, because all work fine. I was just curious to know if anyone had the same symbol.


----------



## DrumSeb

Do you know if i can use the M0 as bluetooth receiver to stream from my iphone, and plug the S1 into the M0... Does this will work ?
It will be a better Btr5 i guess !



twister6 said:


> Yesterday I spent an hour testing S1 with dozens of DAPs and my Galaxy S9 with a bunch of apps.  Most of it seems to be working, except for... FiiO.  Not the end of the world, but connecting to M11 Pro doesn't even power up S1, and someone just told me the same with fiio M6.  Oh, and just for sh!ts'n'giggles I installed FiiO Music app on my Galaxy phone, and it's the ONLY app that doesn't output audio to S1.  Everything else works, Hiby Music, Neutron, Qobuz, Netflix, YouTube, etc. but Fiio music app is the only one which doesn't work, and neither does their DAPs.  I smell a conspiracy theory lol!!!
> 
> And the other two I found not being compatible are iBasso DX160 where S1 powers up but no sound output while their DX220 works OK, and A&K SP1000 where S1 doesn't even power up, but their SR25 I have with me works fine.  When S1 doesn't power up, I wonder if it's hardware related due to S1 current draw, though no issues with little guys like M0, R3/pro, AP80/pro, N3.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bondipix

DrumSeb said:


> Do you know if i can use the M0 as bluetooth receiver to stream from my iphone, and plug the S1 into the M0... Does this will work ?
> It will be a better Btr5 i guess !


Yes it will work


----------



## Rcuello56

DrumSeb said:


> Do you know if i can use the M0 as bluetooth receiver to stream from my iphone, and plug the S1 into the M0... Does this will work ?
> It will be a better Btr5 i guess !


Hi
M6 with Hibi music app+ S1works pretty well. Xperia XA2 no sound regardless the app I use.


----------



## chaotic_angel

Hope Lotoo can get the update soon 🙏


----------



## soundblast75

chaotic_angel said:


> Hope Lotoo can get the update soon 🙏


Had a feeling about this..
They're waiting for Brexit to decide if to do it or not😛🤣🤣


----------



## DrumSeb

Bondipix said:


> Yes it will work


Well i just bought a M0 and its not working ! The S1 woke up, but there is no sound..


----------



## utdeep

I received this device and I thought it was pretty good.  Still waiting for a balanced cable for my Aeon 2 Closed to test it out with more power.

However, I am blown away by how much it improves my Nintendo Switch Lite.  If you hold the plus button while starting the Switch, it goes into UAC1 mode and works like a beauty as a USB DAC.  Biggest improvement I have seen to audio on that device yet.


----------



## bluestorm1992

utdeep said:


> I received this device and I thought it was pretty good.  Still waiting for a balanced cable for my Aeon 2 Closed to test it out with more power.
> 
> However, I am blown away by how much it improves my Nintendo Switch Lite.  If you hold the plus button while starting the Switch, it goes into UAC1 mode and works like a beauty as a USB DAC.  Biggest improvement I have seen to audio on that device yet.


Wow never tried that with my switch. Sounds like a very fun experience.


----------



## twister6

DrumSeb said:


> Well i just bought a M0 and its not working ! The S1 woke up, but there is no sound..



When you connect S1 to M0 do you see message on M0 "audio connected"?  With M0 it is hit or miss.  First of all, you can't adjust volume from M0, only S1.  And most of the times after playing for a few seconds and trying to change the volume from S1, M0 shuts down.  I do have the latest fw on M0, and don't recall it doing this before with older firmware.  So, cross M0 off your pair up list with S1. I think it detects higher current draw from usb-c port and shuts down due to over-current protection.


----------



## stersa

Hi.
it s possible to use S1 as a dac?

3.5mm output has a line out function?

best

Sisco


----------



## povidlo

stersa said:


> Hi.
> it s possible to use S1 as a dac?
> 
> 3.5mm output has a line out function?
> ...


There's no lineout mode. You can feed another amp but would be double-amping then.

I tried to feed my Liquid Platinum amp once and results weren't bad.


----------



## SenorChang8

Does anyone use the S1 with their PS4/PS5?


----------



## DrumSeb

twister6 said:


> When you connect S1 to M0 do you see message on M0 "audio connected"?  With M0 it is hit or miss.  First of all, you can't adjust volume from M0, only S1.  And most of the times after playing for a few seconds and trying to change the volume from S1, M0 shuts down.  I do have the latest fw on M0, and don't recall it doing this before with older firmware.  So, cross M0 off your pair up list with S1. I think it detects higher current draw from usb-c port and shuts down due to over-current protection.



The M0 is working as a source, but it doesn't sound very good with the S1. 

I was hoping the M0 can stream from my phone in bluetooth and connect the S1. But when the M0 is in bluetooth mode it can't output sound to the S1.


----------



## wondroushippo

SenorChang8 said:


> Does anyone use the S1 with their PS4/PS5?



I messed around with it a bit, it does work in UAC1 mode and I don't recall the low USB volume issue that some other hardware has.


----------



## SenorChang8

wondroushippo said:


> I messed around with it a bit, it does work in UAC1 mode and I don't recall the low USB volume issue that some other hardware has.



Thanks, that’s good to hear. Hope they announce MQA support soon. Won’t be able to resist getting one then lol.


----------



## Maru10

SenorChang8 said:


> Thanks, that’s good to hear. Hope they announce MQA support soon. Won’t be able to resist getting one then lol.



I have already succumbed to the temptation, and liking the sound, esp. for thumbstick. And I hope the MQA support comes sooner later than later...


----------



## Symbiose

Does anyone here have paired empire ears odin with S1? I'm searching a portable to use with iPhone.

Thanks.


----------



## Damz87

If anyone has a lightning cable they'd be happy to sell, please let me know  I lost mine and would like an official one again. Thanks in advance!


----------



## senorpedro

Does anybody have a link to a usb-c to lightning cable that works with Lotoo PAW S1 (apart from the Lotoo made one)? Preferably in the UK.


----------



## BobJS

Damz87 said:


> If anyone has a lightning cable they'd be happy to sell, please let me know  I lost mine and would like an official one again. Thanks in advance!



Would you like mine?  It never worked from day 1.


----------



## Rafinnnnnn15

Hello, reading part of this thread I see that the Lotoo Paw S1 is an excellent DAC, some DAP that has a similar sound, the truth for me is important to have a device apart from the cell phone and computer, some dap that has a similar sound or dynamics to the Lotoo Paw S1 ?????

Pd: I'm interested in the Hiby R6 2020 I don't know what the sound is like

Cheers


----------



## bluestorm1992

Rafinnnnnn15 said:


> Hello, reading part of this thread I see that the Lotoo Paw S1 is an excellent DAC, some DAP that has a similar sound, the truth for me is important to have a device apart from the cell phone and computer, some dap that has a similar sound or dynamics to the Lotoo Paw S1 ?????
> 
> Pd: I'm interested in the Hiby R6 2020 I don't know what the sound is like
> 
> Cheers


From what I have heard, the sound is in the direction of warm and a bit relaxed and tune towards pop music. I think it is one of the best options and value-for-money if you want to get Andriod DAPs. Its sound signature, however, will be different from Lotoo's products that feature a neutral, un-colored sound signature.


----------



## Rafinnnnnn15

bluestorm1992 said:


> From what I have heard, the sound is in the direction of warm and a bit relaxed and tune towards pop music. I think it is one of the best options and value-for-money if you want to get Andriod DAPs. Its sound signature, however, will be different from Lotoo's products that feature a neutral, un-colored sound signature.




Is that I currently have a Fiio M11 that is analytical and mainly I listen to rock and metal in all its infinite variations, no classical music or so, and I do not enjoy the genres that I like to the maximum, I would use it with iems, IMR New Aten, R2 Red and Opus Mia


----------



## bluestorm1992

Rafinnnnnn15 said:


> Is that I currently have a Fiio M11 that is analytical and mainly I listen to rock and metal in all its infinite variations, no classical music or so, and I do not enjoy the genres that I like to the maximum, I would use it with iems, IMR New Aten, R2 Red and Opus Mia


Rock and metal could be really good with Lotoo's products with the PMEQ Rock. Their major founders and engineers play a lot of Rock music themselves, so they put a lot of effort in developing the Rock PMEQ. With this being said, maybe the best way to know is to directly ask Musicteck (their US dealer) to send you an audition unit. I would recommend trying their middle-tier product Lotoo PAW 6000. Note that this is NOT an Andriod DAP so no streaming built-in function, but you could use it as a USB DAC or a Bluetooth DAC.


----------



## abitdeef

I've tried evey dongle I could get my hands on and the S1 is still at the tops. Earmen sparrow is top notch too, it's got more power and a more foward sound. Btr5 is still very good to me also. 

What I like about the S1 is it has a more natural tonality like the paw 6000, and it's fairly neutral. But the best thing is the staging, to me is really nice. I don't consider sonething like btr5 neutral, it sounds boosted and a bit v shaped- but still really good. 

I use neutron and the Headphone setting and I can listen for hours. I prefer that sound to many + 1000 dollar daps I've owned. Of course they win on power output but I have relatively easy to drive stuff. 

Sparrow can drive more stuff and has a more foward slightly aggressive/sharper  sound. But S1 to my ears gets the tonality just right and it's very refined sounding. 

My 2 cents. I didn't like quite of few of the other popular dongles, they sounded to me too compressed or digital.


----------



## musicday

Yes, the S1 is very good. Natural realistic sound, from bass, mids and highs. Also the separation and staging and great.
I use mine all the time connect to a Windows 7 64 bit for movie watching.
One of the very few electronic devices I will never sell.


----------



## abitdeef (Dec 21, 2020)

musicday said:


> Yes, the S1 is very good. Natural realistic sound, from bass, mids and highs. Also the separation and staging and great.
> I use mine all the time connect to a Windows 7 64 bit for movie watching.
> One of the very few electronic devices I will never sell.



Yes, you and me both- I like the presentation of this thing too much. But by Amazon's stupidity I might actually have one to sell ha ha. I ordered one for my son for Xmas,  the shipment got 'lost' so I reordered and they credited me, but now it seems the original is on the way.

Maybe ha ha. But the said they can't accept returns because the orders been 86'd. There were several other things on the order also. I think that happened before to me on Amazon, I ordered something, it got lost- they refunded me and like 3 weeks later I received the item.
Same thing they said just keep it or toss it or gift it. Probably got recovery money from insurance.

Anyways, I would love an app for this thing to make custom eq's and use a parametric eq. The dsp chip supports all that. Also, lots of people will be happy with mqa. Bluetooth support on the next version would be a world beater, if they ever do a dongle again


----------



## musicday

Even if the new firmware update won't be released this year, well Happy Christmas and a better New Year everyone !!!


----------



## AlexCBSN

musicday said:


> Even if the new firmware update won't be released this year, well Happy Christmas and a better New Year everyone !!!


stay safe brother, merry xmas, may next year be the dawn of a new time, for now, we shall hold on


----------



## samuraix920

Symbiose said:


> Does anyone here have paired empire ears odin with S1? I'm searching a portable to use with iPhone.
> 
> Thanks.



The Odin pairs well with the S1. Sure the soundstage is not as wide as Cayin N6II but it is a lot cheaper and a great portable solution.


----------



## musicday

Apparently is very close :


----------



## povidlo

Time for some christmas gaming on the XRocker!

Happy holidays, everyone!


----------



## waveSounds

I finally joined the PAW S1 club yesterday after months of it being on my wishlist. Super impressed by the performance this _tiny _thing can deliver! 

When I upgraded phones from the LG V30 to the Huawei P30 Pro I kept the V30 around to use as a DAP and whilst it's an admirable performer, it was inconvenient if I wanted to stream while out and about, having connect to the P30 as a mobile hotspot. Neither of these phones are small so having to carry two of them ate into valuable pocket space required for my three face masks, seven bottles of hand sanitizers, and multi-pack of toilet rolls.

The V30 is also on the detailed and analytical side of presentation and I generally prefer a warmer, lusher and more organic sound which the S1 delivers with aplomb. Consider me a Lotoo advocate from here on in.

P.S. @povidlo I wouldn't mind being in an XRocker myself right now. Looks lush!


----------



## Maru10

musicday said:


> Apparently is very close :



I wonder why someone thinks this is clever marketing. MQA firmware is overdue already, and these empty promises keep coming. To top off. someone thought a clever marketing must also include picture Paw S1 next to Hugo 2, not so subtly parasitizing on Chord's brand and IP and comparing the incomparable. I mean sure, S1 is more than decent for it's size, but this is bantam runner-up hitting below the belt of Chord's heavyweight champion. Or rather piggyback and hitting from behind. As in boxing, both those fouls are noted in my scorecard for future reference.


----------



## 8481

povidlo said:


> Time for some christmas gaming on the XRocker!
> 
> Happy holidays, everyone!



How did you get it to work on the switch?

Mine just dorsnt detect it.


----------



## musicday (Dec 28, 2020)

8481 said:


> How did you get it to work on the switch?
> 
> Mine just dorsnt detect it.


It works !! Read some more next time :

And also.make sure your are on 1.0.0.6 or above firmware :
Method of use: Hold the "+”key on S1 then connect to the playback device, "UAC1 MODE" will be shown on S1 during booting.
Reconnect without "+”key held will enter normal mode(UAC2).

Notice：In UAC1 Mode，Audio spec is fixed to 48KHz/16bit and no DoP supported


----------



## corgifall

Maru10 said:


> I wonder why someone thinks this is clever marketing. MQA firmware is overdue already, and these empty promises keep coming. To top off. someone thought a clever marketing must also include picture Paw S1 next to Hugo 2, not so subtly parasitizing on Chord's brand and IP and comparing the incomparable. I mean sure, S1 is more than decent for it's size, but this is bantam runner-up hitting below the belt of Chord's heavyweight champion. Or rather piggyback and hitting from behind. As in boxing, both those fouls are noted in my scorecard for future reference.


I imagine whoever is taking the photos either has no idea what any of the audio gear is, or they thought the two look good near each other. If they had thrown a mojo in there instead of the Hugo I would agree they’re trying to bite at Chord’s heels. Many people I know who do product photography for companies usually don’t pay much attention to product line ups and throw things that look good together for a photo. I could be wrong however and Lotoo is out for Chord haha.

As for MQA? They’re definitely dragging their feet and I’m pretty sure had they just secretly released support for it instead of constantly teasing it, a lot of people would feel better about it.


----------



## hakunamakaka

It is just a photo, don’t know why you guys are so negative about it. Honestly if you are using an easy to drive headphones I doubt that differences are large. Myself compared S1 to my desktop rig and it was easier to spot the difference only with power hungry headphones. If I could turn back time I would never blow such money on dac/amps. Get S1 for portable use and decent cheap dac/amp combo for desktop if needed. You are usually put in place to blow lots of $$ for very marginal improvements. I can understand if your headphones are very amp picky, but majority of audio crowd are simply chasing the wild goose.


----------



## waveSounds (Dec 28, 2020)

hakunamakaka said:


> It is just a photo, don’t know why you guys are so negative about it. Honestly if you are using an easy to drive headphones I doubt that differences are large. Myself compared S1 to my desktop rig and it was easier to spot the difference only with power hungry headphones. If I could turn back time I would never blow such money on dac/amps. Get S1 for portable use and decent cheap dac/amp combo for desktop if needed. You are usually put in place to blow lots of $$ for very marginal improvements. I can understand if your headphones are very amp picky, but majority of audio crowd are simply chasing the wild goose.



Couldn't agree more with you, Hakuna Matata. The difference between my main desktop unit (Dangerous Music Source) and the S1 are small. It raises the question; is the Source even "better" than the S1? Well, yes - in some areas. Connectivity can't be compared, nor the power provided by the amp section, but then one's a mains powered studio-reference unit and the other is a hilariously small portable solution, and I only have easy to drive headphones. All in all, the Source does just edge the S1 in overall sound quality for me, but by small margins.

If circumstances necessitated I had to sell the Source and live with only the S1, I'd remain content.


----------



## Maru10

waveSounds said:


> Couldn't agree more with you, Hakuna Matata. The difference between my main desktop unit (Dangerous Music Source) and the S1 are small. It raises the question; is the Source even "better" than the S1? Well, yes - in some areas. Connectivity can't be compared, nor the power provided by the amp section, but then one's a mains powered studio-reference unit and the other is a hilariously small portable solution, and I only have easy to drive headphones. All in all, the Source does just edge the S1 in overall sound quality for me, but by small margins.
> 
> If circumstances necessitated I had to sell the Source and live with only the S1, I'd remain content.



Why someone pays for 30y Talisker which is ten times more expensive than classic 10y, and 30 times the price of Johnny Walker? Why someone prefers Grant’s over Four roses? Why pay for BMW when Seat or Hyundai gets you same place in similar comfort? Don’t we all pay the premium for our major vices because of that ephemeral, marginal advantage that we swear it‘s there?

And speaking of Hugo 2 vs S1, this is no mere wishful thinking - the difference is there in detail, separation, vividness, liveliness, timbre, tangible and hearable even to untrained ear. Again, I like S1 for what it is - great pocetable symetrical dac for any device at hand, but let‘s not pretend it is better than a proper tabletop. Sometimes, like in office, S1 is great for the purpose, but at home I like to enjoy aged single malt with touch of peat  so to say.


----------



## waveSounds

I don't believe anyone said it was better than the Hugo 2? Also, "better" is in the eye of the beholder.

I just A/B tested the S1 and Dave, and the S1 won. Hands down. The awarding factors were portability, diminutive size and being able to be powered from another device. S1 is better. Dave sucks. You read it here, folks.


----------



## rcoleman1

waveSounds said:


> I don't believe anyone said it was better than the Hugo 2? Also, "better" is in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> I just A/B tested the S1 and Dave, and the S1 won. Hands down. The awarding factors were portability, diminutive size and being able to be powered from another device. S1 is better. Dave sucks. You read it here, folks.


I love this hobby. Lol


----------



## musicday

waveSounds said:


> I don't believe anyone said it was better than the Hugo 2? Also, "better" is in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> I just A/B tested the S1 and Dave, and the S1 won. Hands down. The awarding factors were portability, diminutive size and being able to be powered from another device. S1 is better. Dave sucks. You read it here, folks.


Certainly Lotoo Paw S1 is better then Chord Dave if all you have is 200 USD.


----------



## corgifall

I love the little S1 but my SMSL stack runs circles around it when it comes to sound quality. It competes well with the hip dac price wise but both devices have their ups and downs.


----------



## jsmiller58

It's probably just me, but I can only tell the difference in my DACs/Amps when I am doing AB comparisons, and only then when the AB listening is for very short clips.  Once I am more than a song or two into my listening I really forget to look for the difference and consequently rarely can tell.  Of course, this assumes the amp is sufficient to power what I am listening to, loudness being an incredibly important influence in perceived sound quality.  I am more likely to be able to hear the differences in IEMs and cans than DACs/Amps, again assuming power is not an issue.

I don't doubt that others have more discerning hearing than I do!  I just count myself lucky


----------



## hakunamakaka

jsmiller58 said:


> It's probably just me, but I can only tell the difference in my DACs/Amps when I am doing AB comparisons, and only then when the AB listening is for very short clips.  Once I am more than a song or two into my listening I really forget to look for the difference and consequently rarely can tell.  Of course, this assumes the amp is sufficient to power what I am listening to, loudness being an incredibly important influence in perceived sound quality.  I am more likely to be able to hear the differences in IEMs and cans than DACs/Amps, again assuming power is not an issue.
> 
> I don't doubt that others have more discerning hearing than I do!  I just count myself lucky



If you remove  aesthetics, excitement and bias opinion because you got a brand new luxury dac/amp, looking purely into sound quality alone differences are not that large in that department. I was in search for my audio nirvana and buying equipment because of rave reviews and lots of money was drained down the toilet in my case. I went through various combos in shop hugo 2, woo audio, monolith and honestly none of these things will transform your headphones/IEM to different beasts no matter what review says. . For people who can easily afford it, this improvement can be worth it, but still they might feel the need to justify the purchase so it will be raved in forums no matter what. For me the sooner I understood that there is no game changer the better.

I sold HF-EF6, bought a cheap'o  topping dac/amp combo for a fraction of EF6 price. I really don't care how luxurious my amp looks/feels when I'm pressing buttons. S1 can be compared  to hugo if you are using  very sensitive IEM/headphones, if the differences are night and day there is most likely impendance missmatch or you are one of the folks  who will praise 10% of SQ improvement up to the moon.


----------



## bluestorm1992

hakunamakaka said:


> If you remove  aesthetics, excitement and bias opinion because you got a brand new luxury dac/amp, looking purely into sound quality alone differences are not that large in that department. I was in search for my audio nirvana and buying equipment because of rave reviews and lots of money was drained down the toilet in my case. I went through various combos in shop hugo 2, woo audio, monolith and honestly none of these things will transform your headphones/IEM to different beasts no matter what review says. . For people who can easily afford it, this improvement can be worth it, but still they might feel the need to justify the purchase so it will be raved in forums no matter what. For me the sooner I understood that there is no game changer the better.
> 
> I sold HF-EF6, bought a cheap'o  topping dac/amp combo for a fraction of EF6 price. I really don't care how luxurious my amp looks/feels when I'm pressing buttons. S1 can be compared  to hugo if you are using  very sensitive IEM/headphones, if the differences are night and day there is most likely impendance missmatch or you are one of the folks  who will praise 10% of SQ improvement up to the moon.


I would second this. I have owned Lotoo's two flagships - LPG and LPGT. Do they perform better than S1? To some extent yes, and they have lots of other added features as well. However, the LPGT is 20 times as expensive as the S1 - for about 20% SQ improvement.


----------



## Maru10

bluestorm1992 said:


> I would second this. I have owned Lotoo's two flagships - LPG and LPGT. Do they perform better than S1? To some extent yes, and they have lots of other added features as well. However, the LPGT is 20 times as expensive as the S1 - for about 20% SQ improvement.



To everyone’s their own. Most of us with spare cash pay the price of diminishing return somewhere, be it cars, brand clothing, spirits, food, pc gaming, sports or other hobbies or equipment. It should not be such surprise that those paying big buck for marginal improvements in SQ flock around Head-Fi.


----------



## hakunamakaka

Maru10 said:


> To everyone’s their own. Most of us with spare cash pay the price of diminishing return somewhere, be it cars, brand clothing, spirits, food, pc gaming, sports or other hobbies or equipment. It should not be such surprise that those paying big buck for marginal improvements in SQ flock around Head-Fi.



I'm not trying to dismiss folks who pay premium money on goodies, it's your money and you can do whatever with it. S1 can't compete against powerfull dap/amps with dedicated baterry matched with power hungry iem/hp, but if we are considering testing it with high sensitivity equipment I don't see why it can't be brought to the table for comparison.


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Dec 30, 2020)

hakunamakaka said:


> I'm not trying to dismiss folks who pay premium money on goodies, it's your money and you can do whatever with it. S1 can't compete against powerfull dap/amps with dedicated baterry matched with power hungry iem/hp, but if we are considering testing it with high sensitivity equipment I don't see why it can't be brought to the table for comparison.


I once tried to pair the S1 with my Diana V2 and, not surprisingly, the performance is no good. I have tried many portable devices and none of them is capable of doing this honestly. That’s where my spending in desktop setups begin to bring great return to me. 

For most of the IEMs, the difference of using it with different (good) DAPs and small dongles is not that big IMO.


----------



## Bandit87 (Dec 30, 2020)

Hi all. I currently use the s1 with a meze 99 classics connected by the silver plated cable. I stream qobuz with uapp. The synergy between this headphone and the s1 is superb. Much better than with my final Pandora VI. I love this combo. I use the "headphone" preset.


----------



## Bondipix

I use my S1 almost exclusively with my HiFiMan HE400i 2020. I swapped out the standard cable for the Meze 99 balanced and connect using a DDHIFI 4.4 adapter. To me, this is an almost perfect combination. I don’t feel the need to upgrade anything. The S1 is just superb!


----------



## _daRK

Bondipix said:


> I use my S1 almost exclusively with my HiFiMan HE400i 2020. I swapped out the standard cable for the Meze 99 balanced and connect using a DDHIFI 4.4 adapter. To me, this is an almost perfect combination. I don’t feel the need to upgrade anything. The S1 is just superb!


I suggest taking your Hifiman somewhere to try it with a better Amp. You will be surprised what is missing here, it is impossible to be satisfied with the combination of S1 + He400i. This is not about the loudness. Seriously, you need much higher output than the S1 (even with a balanced cable).


----------



## Bondipix

_daRK said:


> I suggest taking your Hifiman somewhere to try it with a better Amp. You will be surprised what is missing here, it is impossible to be satisfied with the combination of S1 + He400i. This is not about the loudness. Seriously, you need much higher output than the S1 (even with a balanced cable).


Like I said; ..”to me”..
I don’t feel the need to spend any more money to achieve a degree of listening pleasure above and beyond what I now have. I am happy enough.
Sure, there will always be “better” out there.
But it really can become a never-ending/enough pursuit. I don’t intend to get sucked in. Experience is all relative. To me, in my experience, this simple combo is everything I need.


----------



## _daRK

Bondipix said:


> Like I said; ..”to me”..
> I don’t feel the need to spend any more money to achieve a degree of listening pleasure above and beyond what I now have. I am happy enough.
> Sure, there will always be “better” out there.
> But it really can become a never-ending/enough pursuit. I don’t intend to get sucked in. Experience is all relative. To me, in my experience, this simple combo is everything I need.


I understand, it's your belief. I've just needed to express "my" experience with the He400i. As I wrote, try it... maybe you will change your opinion. I didn't mean it in a negative way


----------



## Bondipix

_daRK said:


> I understand, it's your belief. I've just needed to express "my" experience with the He400i. As I wrote, try it... maybe you will change your opinion. I didn't mean it in a negative way


Hey, I didn’t take it in a negative way.  I appreciate that there is more to be had from the “better” gear out there. I don’t see a way to try anything else short of buying it and I have no intention of doing that. I bought the S1 to improve my listening pleasure using a phone as a transport; It does that in every way. The HE400i with a balanced connection to the S1sounds great - to me...


----------



## Dobrescu George

I already posted my in-depth written review about the Lotoo Paw S1, along with the video review, but I felt like having a full feature with it for the end of 2020 

This is a very funny / comedic video for audiophiles, please have a look and let me know how you feel about it


----------



## musicday

Happy New Year !!
Hopefully the new firmware update is not far !


----------



## Combover Grover

Anyone else find that the S1 sounds significantly better connected to a computer vs a mobile device?  Had only used it on my ipad and iphone, but just connected it to my iMac and it totally opens up to another level.


----------



## leaky74

soas said:


> Starting to get issues with the Lotoo cable (most likely). It is plugged into my laptop on a flat surface, but if the S1 gets tugged/shifted just a bit, the connection dies until I adjust the cable again.
> 
> Anyone try getting a replacement cable from Lotoo? I see the Woo audio cable recommended, wondering if I should bother trying to get it warrantied or if there are better alternatives?



Mine is borked around the lightning end strain relief. Too much movement there and it cuts out which, annoyingly, means I have to disconnect and reconnect the S1 for the iPhone to recognise it again.


----------



## _daRK

Combover Grover said:


> Anyone else find that the S1 sounds significantly better connected to a computer vs a mobile device?  Had only used it on my iPad and iphone, but just connected it to my iMac and it totally opens up to another level.


I suspect some problem with your mobile (phone settings, player settings...).


----------



## bluestorm1992

Combover Grover said:


> Anyone else find that the S1 sounds significantly better connected to a computer vs a mobile device?  Had only used it on my ipad and iphone, but just connected it to my iMac and it totally opens up to another level.


Your observation is correct. Lotoo engineer said the S1 performs better with PC/laptop due to better power supply.


----------



## Combover Grover

_daRK said:


> I suspect some problem with your mobile (phone settings, player settings...).


What setting could it be on the iPad / iPhone? Just using the qobuz app.


----------



## leaky74

Long shot; anyone tried this cable? Link


----------



## CANiSLAYu (Dec 31, 2020)

leaky74 said:


> Mine is borked around the lightning end strain relief. Too much movement there and it cuts out which, annoyingly, means I have to disconnect and reconnect the S1 for the iPhone to recognise it again.


 Same here. Lightning cable is starting to fray on the lightning end. It still works fine, but who know for how long and obviously the aesthetics took a hit. A new OEM one is $35, so I just ponied up a little more (I think it was like $42) and got the ddHiFi TC28i (female USB C to male lightning adapter) and TC05 (USB C male to USB C male cable) combo.  The cable has a TPU exterior, so it should fare better than the fabric of the OEM cable.  The combo also has the benefit of using the same cable to connect the S1 to my iPhone, iPad Pro or a computer.

EDIT: and while the angled adapter makes it slightly more awkward using with a phone in portrait mode, it’s much better in landscape.


----------



## _daRK

bluestorm1992 said:


> Your observation is correct. Lotoo engineer said the S1 performs better with PC/laptop due to better power supply.


Really? Where did you read/hear it, please? Thanks.


----------



## leaky74

CANiSLAYu said:


> Same here. Lightning cable is starting to fray on the lightning end. It still works fine, but who know for how long and obviously the aesthetics took a hit. A new OEM one is $35, so I just ponied up a little more (I think it was like $42) and got the ddHiFi TC28i (female USB C to male lightning adapter) and TC05 (USB C male to USB C male cable) combo.  The cable has a TPU exterior, so it should fare better than the fabric of the OEM cable.  The combo also has the benefit of using the same cable to connect the S1 to my iPhone, iPad Pro or a computer.
> 
> EDIT: and while the angled adapter makes it slightly more awkward using with a phone in portrait mode, it’s much better in landscape.



This looks neat, thanks!


----------



## bluestorm1992

_daRK said:


> Really? Where did you read/hear it, please? Thanks.


I am in their WeChat group.


----------



## corgifall

While I can't confirm it really does sound better out of a PC usb port. It would make sense however since the big issue for me since I bought my first S1 remains. My iPhone 12 pro still can't output enough power to get the volume of the S1 where I want with some headphones. My iPhone X could only do high gain at 72 volume and anything higher would reboot the S1 and my iPhone would complain it was sucking to much power. The iPhone 12 pro can get to high gain at 76 and anything after reboots it. This is obviously not an issue with running of a normal PC due to the better power coming out of the usb port.


----------



## musicday

bluestorm1992 said:


> I am in their WeChat group.


Ask them kindly then, about yet to be released firmware.
Thank you.


----------



## waveSounds

CANiSLAYu said:


> Same here. Lightning cable is starting to fray on the lightning end. It still works fine, but who know for how long and obviously the aesthetics took a hit. A new OEM one is $35, so I just ponied up a little more (I think it was like $42) and got the ddHiFi TC28i (female USB C to male lightning adapter) and TC05 (USB C male to USB C male cable) combo.  The cable has a TPU exterior, so it should fare better than the fabric of the OEM cable.  The combo also has the benefit of using the same cable to connect the S1 to my iPhone, iPad Pro or a computer.
> 
> EDIT: and while the angled adapter makes it slightly more awkward using with a phone in portrait mode, it’s much better in landscape.



Bummed that they don't have a USB C (host) version. I don't know how much longer the Lotoo OEM cable is going to last with the sharp bend and weight of the S1 coming out of a pocket.


----------



## AlexCBSN

CANiSLAYu said:


> Same here. Lightning cable is starting to fray on the lightning end. It still works fine, but who know for how long and obviously the aesthetics took a hit. A new OEM one is $35, so I just ponied up a little more (I think it was like $42) and got the ddHiFi TC28i (female USB C to male lightning adapter) and TC05 (USB C male to USB C male cable) combo.  The cable has a TPU exterior, so it should fare better than the fabric of the OEM cable.  The combo also has the benefit of using the same cable to connect the S1 to my iPhone, iPad Pro or a computer.
> 
> EDIT: and while the angled adapter makes it slightly more awkward using with a phone in portrait mode, it’s much better in landscape.


I have that solution and not only it’s practical, it drives the 9038sg3, it’s durable, the construction it’s all aluminum, im
Ordering the usb c cable too soon


----------



## CANiSLAYu

leaky74 said:


> Long shot; anyone tried this cable? Link


Link didn’t work, but unlikely. I have these for charging and even though they’re MFi certified it does nothing with the S1 when plugged into my iPhone.


----------



## AlexCBSN

CANiSLAYu said:


> Link didn’t work, but unlikely. I have these for charging and even though they’re MFi certified it does nothing with the S1 when plugged into my iPhone.


Had a couple of shots like that, mfi is more about the charging compatibility, there’s not many otg cables out there


----------



## leaky74

CANiSLAYu said:


> Link didn’t work, but unlikely. I have these for charging and even though they’re MFi certified it does nothing with the S1 when plugged into my iPhone.





AlexCBSN said:


> Had a couple of shots like that, mfi is more about the charging compatibility, there’s not many otg cables out there



Cheers, I suspected as much.


----------



## leaky74

CANiSLAYu said:


> Same here. Lightning cable is starting to fray on the lightning end. It still works fine, but who know for how long and obviously the aesthetics took a hit. A new OEM one is $35, so I just ponied up a little more (I think it was like $42) and got the ddHiFi TC28i (female USB C to male lightning adapter) and TC05 (USB C male to USB C male cable) combo.  The cable has a TPU exterior, so it should fare better than the fabric of the OEM cable.  The combo also has the benefit of using the same cable to connect the S1 to my iPhone, iPad Pro or a computer.
> 
> EDIT: and while the angled adapter makes it slightly more awkward using with a phone in portrait mode, it’s much better in landscape.



Just ordered that bundle now; thanks for the heads up!


----------



## jburks725

leaky74 said:


> Just ordered that bundle now; thanks for the heads up!


Me too!


----------



## NJoyzAudio

leaky74 said:


> Just ordered that bundle now; thanks for the heads up!


Same Here Also!
Nice to have some options when it comes to a Lightning Connection, but will need to test as sometimes even though MFI approved, a connection works with one combination but not with another.  Glad Apple seems to be moving towards (though slowly, and only on the iPad Pro and iPad Air) USB-C.

Hats off to the orginal poster of this info!


----------



## SBranson

I was thinking of getting the S1 to use with my iPhone but also with my AK240 as my phone cannot store as much music.

I have one of these otg USB-c to micro USB cables but the description says that the USB-c side is the host so I’m wondering if it would work to connect my AK240 to the S1.  If not, what could I use to do so?
https://www.amazon.ca/CableCreation...ocphy=9001446&hvtargid=pla-420922861122&psc=1


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jan 4, 2021)

As just a general observation, do with it what you will, I have the Lotoo S1, the Hidizs S8 and S9, the minidsp il-DSP, and the Helm Bolt.  Did some quick comparisons this weekend - just for interest and not for science.  All testing was done with the “best” connector supported (balanced if it had it, SE if not).  Used my HiBy R6 Pro and Tidal as source, and FiiO FH3 IEMs.  The warmest and thickest of the bunch is the S1 (default no filter).  The leanest/cleanest is the S9. Next up (as in less lea/clean) was the Bolt, then the il-DSP.  Will have to play with this some more and probably my impressions / ordering will change.  I will also have to use UAPP next time to see what it does to the Bolt as it supports MQA.  I will note that at least on my R6 Pro some of these had very well behaved volume.  But the S9, for example, has to have the volume set to 1 otherwise my ears would suffer the consequences.  I also have the 9038s gen2 and gen3 so will add them to the mix as well, just the volume adjustment is a bit more hinky.  None of these sounded bad and I could and do enjoy them all.  They also all could easily drive my FiiO.  When I have the sound signatures sorted I will have to then throw in the BTR5 and Q5 Qudelix 5K in Bluetooth LDAC mode because... well, because I will find it personally interesting, and besides I have a perverse curiosity to see how people will react to the sacrilege...


----------



## waveSounds

Looking forward to your follow up impressions @jsmiller58!

In the mean time I'll just keep refreshing Lotoo's S1 firmware page for the MQA update...


----------



## hakunamakaka

jsmiller58 said:


> As just a general observation, do with it what you will, I have the Lotoo S1, the Hidizs S8 and S9, the minidsp il-DSP, and the Helm Bolt.  Did some quick comparisons this weekend - just for interest and not for science.  All testing was done with the “best” connector supported (balanced if it had it, SE if not).  Used my HiBy R6 Pro and Tidal as source, and FiiO FH3 IEMs.  The warmest and thickest of the bunch is the S1 (default no filter).  The leanest/cleanest is the S9. Next up (as in less lea/clean) was the Bolt, then the il-DSP.  Will have to play with this some more and probably my impressions / ordering will change.  I will also have to use UAPP next time to see what it does to the Bolt as it supports MQA.  I will note that at least on my R6 Pro some of these had very well behaved volume.  But the S9, for example, has to have the volume set to 1 otherwise my ears would suffer the consequences.  I also have the 9038s gen2 and gen3 so will add them to the mix as well, just the volume adjustment is a bit more hinky.  None of these sounded bad and I could and do enjoy them all.  They also all could easily drive my FiiO.  When I have the sound signatures sorted I will have to then throw in the BTR5 and Q5 in Bluetooth LDAC mode because... well, because I will find it personally interesting, and besides I have a perverse curiosity to see how people will react to the sacrilege...



How is Q5 for you ? I’ve sold mine as somehow it sounded too forward and a bit grainy with AAC. Tried to play with EQ but with little luck, UP4 was way better product for me, unfortunately I’ve lost it. These BT amps are interesting gizmos for the use on the go, especially for someone like me who mainly listens streamed music


----------



## jsmiller58 (Jan 4, 2021)

hakunamakaka said:


> How is Q5 for you ? I’ve sold mine as somehow it sounded too forward and a bit grainy with AAC. Tried to play with EQ but with little luck, UP4 was way better product for me, unfortunately I’ve lost it. These BT amps are interesting gizmos for the use on the go, especially for someone like me who mainly listens streamed music


I have Android so never play with AAC, only LDAC where supported or aptx-HD if LDAC is not supported. 

Looking back at my earlier post I must have had momentary brain freeze - not the Q5, but rather the Qudelix 5K...  There was a Q and a 5 in that, I suppose!

Interestingly my best sounding Bluetooth device is...  my Ora GrapheneQ headphones.  Seriously.  I have far more respected / better reviewed wired headphones, but the GrapheneQ connected over Bluetooth aptX-HD just sounds great to me.  When wired it sounds like a muddy mess, but in BT mode where I think it might benefit from some internal DSP (just my guess), I think they did a reallynice job on the sound.  Too bad the build is poor, and the headband so small that it doesn’t work well (for my larger than average head) from a comfort perspective for long term listening, so most of the time I listen to wired headphones or IEMs.


----------



## hakunamakaka

Hi folks,

does anyone knows similarly sounding dongle/ preferably with BT as Lotoo S1 ? I’ve decided to sell my dap M11 pro which is too bulky for me and apart having more juice it is not that technically superior to S1. I kind of miss S1 sound with added warmth, but EMI noise was a dealbreaker for me. Was thinking about lotoo daps, but I’m mainly listening to streamed music and size/portability do matter for me.


----------



## musicday

To MQA or not to MQA in 2021?


----------



## buenahora

L


musicday said:


> To MQA or not to MQA in 2021?


waiting religiously for that firmware update!!


----------



## buenahora

Is there a way to tell what firmware version the S1 is running?


----------



## waveSounds

Hold the Fn key when plugging it into your PC/Mac.


----------



## chaotic_angel

Lotoo said both they and MQA at the final stage on the MQA fw let's hope that is real to be happened soon.


----------



## musicday

chaotic_angel said:


> Lotoo said both they and MQA at the final stage on the MQA fw let's hope that is real to be happened soon.


Do you know what else the new firmware will bring? Some of us don't use MQA at all.


----------



## corgifall

I hope at some point that they allow us to pick what EQs we wanna keep on the device. I normally don't use them but I'll throw on the "sweet" preset for a little bass boost sometimes. Hate having to cycle through all the EQ presets to get there.


----------



## buenahora

corgifall said:


> I hope at some point that they allow us to pick what EQs we wanna keep on the device. I normally don't use them but I'll throw on the "sweet" preset for a little bass boost sometimes. Hate having to cycle through all the EQ presets to get there.


The sweet preset is also my favorite. Works really well with the Solaris 2020.


----------



## Sound Eq

hi, anyone compared lotoo s1 to earmen sparrow


----------



## AlexCBSN (Jan 11, 2021)

Sound Eq said:


> hi, anyone compared lotoo s1 to earmen sparrow


Sparrow is more “flat” and way more straight forward and packs a bit more punch and detail, both are EFI monsters with cellphones (the sparrow actually has even more) sparrow has mqa enabled while some are waiting for fw ltp (which will arrive when it is time) imo the sparrow has a way more transparent presentation while the ltp’s goal is non fatiguing laid back signatures, eq options on ltp are ok, i only use a couple, some are truly useless


I own both and the l&p w1, tbh i would look into the l&p w1 or w2, w1 hits it out of the park, sound quality is impressive, I’m preparing (slowly) a comparación in between all my dongles, ltp has a really mellow sound and does nothing wrong, l&p w1 has less eq options but has low pass filter selection, the sparrow kinda presentation (straight forward with good detail and impressive separation) and supposedly it will have different eq uploads according to the headphones we use; ltp s1 is great but the competition is getting better


----------



## hakunamakaka

AlexCBSN said:


> Sparrow is more “flat” and way more straight forward and packs a bit more punch and detail, both are EFI monsters with cellphones (the sparrow actually has even more) sparrow has mqa enabled while some are waiting for fw ltp (which will arrive when it is time) imo the sparrow has a way more transparent presentation while the ltp’s goal is non fatiguing laid back signatures, eq options on ltp are ok, i only use a couple, some are truly useless
> 
> 
> I own both and l&p w1, tbh i would look into the l&p w1 or w2, w1 hits it out of the park, sound quality is impressive, I’m preparing (slowly) a comparación in between all my dongles, ltp has a really mellow sound and does nothing wrong, actually it has amazing eq options, but the competition is getting better



Thanks for your input. This is very useful for me as I'm currently looking into dongle options. With my equipment I loved Looto S1 sound signature and I would take it any time of the day instead of forward, "technical" and leaner presentation which was the case with majority of other dongles that I tried. Harshness in highs is as well a common friend there, especially with ES sabre chips. Some of these dongles basically sounded same as my iphone with just additional loudness


----------



## AlexCBSN

hakunamakaka said:


> Thanks for your input. This is very useful for me as I'm currently looking into dongle options. With my equipment I loved Looto S1 sound signature and I would take it any time of the day instead of forward, "technical" and leaner presentation which was the case with majority of other dongles that I tried. Harshness in highs is as well a common friend there, especially with ES sabre chips. Some of these dongles basically sounded same as my iphone with just additional loudness


Yeah, I’m using it with my iOS devices as well, i might get stabbed here, but the bundled cables make sound leaner, i changed the ltp for the 9038s g3 cable (way thicker and sturdier) and sound changed a wee (ok, if you are going to boo me, do it in this moment... done? Ok, lets keep going) as well the best option for converting cables is the ddhifi tc28i, its the best purchase I’ve made for my 2go rig, the angle its funny when i want to text but i already got a hang of it, and its design actually makes more sense, mainly is using a hoodie.

Laid back signatures for good price imo: meizu hifi pro, ztella mqa and hidizs s8 (and sonata hd pro), still out of em all the ltp is the undisputed king


----------



## hakunamakaka

AlexCBSN said:


> Yeah, I’m using it with my iOS devices as well, i might get stabbed here, but the bundled cables make sound leaner, i changed the ltp for the 9038s g3 cable (way thicker and sturdier) and sound changed a wee (ok, if you are going to boo me, do it in this moment... done? Ok, lets keep going) as well the best option for converting cables is the ddhifi tc28i, its the best purchase I’ve made for my 2go rig, the angle its funny when i want to text but i already got a hang of it, and its design actually makes more sense, mainly is using a hoodie.
> 
> Laid back signatures for good price imo: meizu hifi pro, ztella mqa and hidizs s8 (and sonata hd pro), still out of em all the ltp is the undisputed king




Does L&P W1 suffer from EMI noise with iphone ? I'm starting to feel bad that I rushed and sold mine S1.


----------



## Sound Eq

AlexCBSN said:


> Sparrow is more “flat” and way more straight forward and packs a bit more punch and detail, both are EFI monsters with cellphones (the sparrow actually has even more) sparrow has mqa enabled while some are waiting for fw ltp (which will arrive when it is time) imo the sparrow has a way more transparent presentation while the ltp’s goal is non fatiguing laid back signatures, eq options on ltp are ok, i only use a couple, some are truly useless
> 
> 
> I own both and the l&p w1, tbh i would look into the l&p w1 or w2, w1 hits it out of the park, sound quality is impressive, I’m preparing (slowly) a comparación in between all my dongles, ltp has a really mellow sound and does nothing wrong, l&p w1 has less eq options but has low pass filter selection, the sparrow kinda presentation (straight forward with good detail and impressive separation) and supposedly it will have different eq uploads according to the headphones we use; ltp s1 is great but the competition is getting better


so you mean L&P w1 or w1 is better than all of them sparrow and Lotto s1 in terms of sound quality


----------



## NZtechfreak

Sound Eq said:


> so you mean L&P w1 or w1 is better than all of them sparrow and Lotto s1 in terms of sound quality



Don't know if they've heard it, or going from the measurements, certainly its measured performance outdoes both the S1 and the Sparrow (the latter by a significant margin, the Sparrow measured poorly).


----------



## AlexCBSN

Sound Eq said:


> so you mean L&P w1 or w1 is better than all of them sparrow and Lotto s1 in terms of sound quality


Imo, it outperforms both in clarity and sq. It does sound better


----------



## Kal El

hakunamakaka said:


> Does L&P W1 suffer from EMI noise with iphone ? I'm starting to feel bad that I rushed and sold mine S1.



I'm also curious about EMI noise of the L&P W1 compared to the Paw S1. Sometimes that EMI noise makes me hate my Paw S1, but only when I hve it in my pocket with the smartphone.


----------



## AlexCBSN (Jan 12, 2021)

Kal El said:


> I'm also curious about EMI noise of the L&P W1 compared to the Paw S1. Sometimes that EMI noise makes me hate my Paw S1, but only when I hve it in my pocket with the smartphone.


Haven’t take mine out yet, today I took the sparrow to work, it definitely has a worst case of efi than ltp s1, I think it won’t go out with me again tbh. Sound quality is super but the pops and cracks are unbearable. Will take the l&p w1 out tomorrow and post my impressions


----------



## hakunamakaka

AlexCBSN said:


> Haven’t take mine out yet, today I took the sparrow to work, it definitely has a worst case of efi than ltp s1, I think it won’t go out with me again tbh. Sound quality is super but the pops and cracks are unbearable. Will take it out tomorrow and post my impressions



Thanks Alex, we will wait for and update. It seems i’m close to another purchase of a dongle 🙈


----------



## Kal El

hakunamakaka said:


> Thanks Alex, we will wait for and update. It seems i’m close to another purchase of a dongle 🙈



Haha! Me too!


----------



## sebek

Is there a difference between SE and balanced output in sound quality?

Are EMI noises very present using it with the smartphone?

Can anyone make a comparison with FiiO BTR5 in USB DAC mode?


----------



## sebek

sebek said:


> Is there a difference between SE and balanced output in sound quality?
> 
> Are EMI noises very present using it with the smartphone?
> 
> Can anyone make a comparison with FiiO BTR5 in USB DAC mode?


I'm interested because tonight I saw that it is now also on AliExpress, 140 €.

I am reading that many change the stock cable with an aftermarket one, the stock one is poor and gives more interference?


----------



## Bondipix

sebek said:


> I'm interested because tonight I saw that it is now also on AliExpress, 140 €.
> 
> I am reading that many change the stock cable with an aftermarket one, the stock one is poor and gives more interference?


I use the S1 with both an iPhone and a Google pixel. I have had no issues whatsoever. The balanced output seems to be more detailed and is my preference for sure, although the sound via 3.5 se is very good as well. 
I don’t get any interference when using the stock cables and they are in the same condition as when I first bought the S1.
The S1 is the only Dac/amp I need; the sound is exceptional and the overall quality is superb. Definitely one of my better purchases.


----------



## Kal El

sebek said:


> I'm interested because tonight I saw that it is now also on AliExpress, 140 €.
> 
> I am reading that many change the stock cable with an aftermarket one, the stock one is poor and gives more interference?



I've read that S1 has better sq than BTR5, wider soundstage, more detail... but BRT5 has bluetooth. If you need bluetooth, BRT5 is your best choice. I love my Lotoo Paw S1 but I'm thinking about buying a BTR5 for Bluetooth connection.


----------



## waveSounds

I'm here to give you an impression uncoloured by price expectation bias. Comparing the S1 to a $1,000 reference, studio monitor controller (Dangerous Source in this instance) I'd say the S1 gives me 90%, if not more, of the sound quality. I wouldn't give my Source up because of its superior driving power (not unexpected) and myriad of functionality to run numerous sets of speakers and headphones, amongst other things, but that's just the way it is. I'm not going to use hyperbole such as night and day, huge improvement, and whatever else is common to describe a minimal improvement. Fact is, perhaps there isn't really even a "better" sound quality between the two, just different tuning. Pitch forks at the ready folks, I'll see you at the stake


----------



## musicday

I am not interested to own or try a different dongle. I am more then happy with the Lotoo Paw S1. Works perfectly with Netflix on movie preset for example.


----------



## Strifeff7

AlexCBSN said:


> Haven’t take mine out yet, today I took the sparrow to work, it definitely has a worst case of efi than ltp s1, I think it won’t go out with me again tbh. Sound quality is super but the pops and cracks are unbearable. Will take the l&p w1 out tomorrow and post my impressions


I'm excited,
also does it heat up?
and does it drain the battery quicker than the S1?
thank you,


----------



## AlexCBSN

Strifeff7 said:


> I'm excited,
> also does it heat up?
> and does it drain the battery quicker than the S1?
> thank you,


It doesn’t heat up (nor does the s1 imc) battery draining ... I’ve been trying to get a battery replacement for months because with or without dongle my battery life is quite down (72% on my iPhone), I think both have around the same usage though, mainly cause iOS locks the power usage for outside dongles to 2V or so (correct me If im wrong please) therefor any dongle scales greatly in a laptop or with a Y connector


----------



## hakunamakaka

waveSounds said:


> I'm here to give you an impression uncoloured by price expectation bias. Comparing the S1 to a $1,000 reference, studio monitor controller (Dangerous Source in this instance) I'd say the S1 gives me 90%, if not more, of the sound quality. I wouldn't give my Source up because of its superior driving power (not unexpected) and myriad of functionality to run numerous sets of speakers and headphones, amongst other things, but that's just the way it is. I'm not going to use hyperbole such as night and day, huge improvement, and whatever else is common to describe a minimal improvement. Fact is, perhaps there isn't really even a "better" sound quality between the two, just different tuning. Pitch forks at the ready folks, I'll see you at the stake



From the memory S1 lacks behind against my desktop equipment, mostly in dynamics and stage, but these characteristics are mainly impacted if underpowered and I have used S1 solely with my iphone which is not fair to compare against amp with dedicated power source. To my ears difference was not large, but easy to notice, though S1 was used only with iphone... I’m still interested to try R2R2 dac, but it’s super expensive and I’m scared to run into small returns of SQ improvement. That happened to me with cables... now no one could talk me into expensive cable purchase anymore 🙈


----------



## JohnPham

Hi guys, I don't know if this is allowed on the thread so mods feel free to delete but I'm selling my S1 for $120 shipped on the source comments FS page! PM me if you are interested


----------



## udesign48

How does this sound when compared to the real Lotoo PAW Gold ??

Does this work on Windows OS laptop ???


----------



## musicday

udesign48 said:


> How does this sound when compared to the real Lotoo PAW Gold ??
> 
> Does this work on Windows OS laptop ???


It works on Windows 7, windows 10, Nintendo switch and pretty much anything.
I would say it sounds similar to LPG but less powerful and a bit less detailed but with same black background.
For the money there is nothing else out there better.


----------



## leaky74

Thanks again for this, mine just arrived!







CANiSLAYu said:


> Same here. Lightning cable is starting to fray on the lightning end. It still works fine, but who know for how long and obviously the aesthetics took a hit. A new OEM one is $35, so I just ponied up a little more (I think it was like $42) and got the ddHiFi TC28i (female USB C to male lightning adapter) and TC05 (USB C male to USB C male cable) combo.  The cable has a TPU exterior, so it should fare better than the fabric of the OEM cable.  The combo also has the benefit of using the same cable to connect the S1 to my iPhone, iPad Pro or a computer.
> 
> EDIT: and while the angled adapter makes it slightly more awkward using with a phone in portrait mode, it’s much better in landscape.


----------



## NJoyzAudio (Jan 16, 2021)

Info to add onto my previous comments/info posted in this and the P6K Forum, for those who might find this info useful...and to add to Canislayu and Leaky74's psots
As I and others have mentioned the Lotoo S1 Lightning to to USB-C cable works on connecting an Apple Device to both the S1 and P6K.
But I saw elsewhere in Head-Fi someone discussing a new adapter from DD-Hifi TC28i (Picture below) that is a Lightning Male to USB-C Female adapter made from machined Aluminum for the housing.
It is an OTG adapter too! (prevent draining devices by charging the other)
It allows you to use a higher quality USB-C to USB-C or USB-A 3.1 cable and connect your devices to a an Apple Lightning product
YMMV but I've been able to connect an iPad, IPad Air 2, iPhone X, and an iPhone 11 Pro to both the S1 and P6K, to several other Amp/DAC combos that have USB-C or Micro USB without issues.
So far it is THE ONLY connector I have that works across all my AMP/DAC devices, and all my Apple devices, previously one cable would work with one combo, but not another.
This will allow me to consolidate and get rid of a number of cables.
I've seen this little adapter being sold through various stores on the net, so not going to pitch one over the other but rather go get one if you have Apple devices as it will help you consolidate.  Haven't had time to do any measurements, except with what is between my ears but the impressions so far is it does not add any unwanted signals/sounds and does not color the sound at all.
Bargain for the $25 I paid for it, given I've had to buy some much more expensive Lightning to USB Cables to date
Just wanted to pass this on to those on this forum!


----------



## musicday

No signs of the firmware update yet?


----------



## _daRK

There is already some information. Be patient and follow this thread. I'm sure this information will appear here when the update is released. But I understand, being patient is not my cup of tea too.


----------



## musicday

Well at the moment, I like it very much as it is. Also I don't use MQA, I am more curious to see what other features will be added.


----------



## sm0rf (Jan 17, 2021)

musicday said:


> I am more curious to see what other features will be added.



They should add some better cables, since they're  obviously 💩 compared to the otherwise fabulous product.
Like other people mine became flimsy too and have to bend it into one direction to avoid steady disconnects between UBS-DAC and device.


----------



## corgifall

NJoyzAudio said:


> Info to add onto my previous comments/info posted in this and the P6K Forum, for those who might find this info useful...and to add to Canislayu and Leaky74's psots
> As I and others have mentioned the Lotoo S1 Lightning to to USB-C cable works on connecting an Apple Device to both the S1 and P6K.
> But I saw elsewhere in Head-Fi someone discussing a new adapter from DD-Hifi TC28i (Picture below) that is a Lightning Male to USB-C Female adapter made from machined Aluminum for the housing.
> It is an OTG adapter too! (prevent draining devices by charging the other)
> ...


It is a pretty good adapter with some quirks. On my iPhone 12 pro I have to plug it in like 3-5 times and wait till I finally get sound out of anything connected to it. It works but I don't think I've seen anyone complain about this on other iphones. I like it though. I would recommend it and the cable DDhifi sells with it.


----------



## AlexCBSN

corgifall said:


> It is a pretty good adapter with some quirks. On my iPhone 12 pro I have to plug it in like 3-5 times and wait till I finally get sound out of anything connected to it. It works but I don't think I've seen anyone complain about this on other iphones. I like it though. I would recommend it and the cable DDhifi sells with it.


I would check the lightning port, maybe a quick swipe with a headphone cleaner? Or some compressed air? I’ve been using it with my 4 year old iPhone X and I try to keep the port as clean as possible. Maybe some debris? Just my 2 cents


----------



## sebek

Has anyone had both S1 and Dragonfly Red / Cobalt and been able to compare them?


----------



## _daRK

sebek said:


> Has anyone had both S1 and Dragonfly Red / Cobalt and been able to compare them?


I have them both, but I didn't need to compare them yet. I'm pretty sure that my DF Red will leave my house very soon without any comparison.


----------



## corgifall

AlexCBSN said:


> I would check the lightning port, maybe a quick swipe with a headphone cleaner? Or some compressed air? I’ve been using it with my 4 year old iPhone X and I try to keep the port as clean as possible. Maybe some debris? Just my 2 cents


I’m pretty sure it’s just an issue with something related to the new iPhone. The apple usb dongle works perfectly with zero issue. It just takes a bit to get going the first time. I’m pretty sure I had all kinds of weird issues with usb when I first got my iPhone X forever ago. New tech problems.


----------



## sebek

_daRK said:


> I have them both, but I didn't need to compare them yet. I'm pretty sure that my DF Red will leave my house very soon without any comparison.


I'm thinking of getting one, I think more Cobalt than Red.

It's because I no longer want to deal with balanced outputs that sound better and are more powerful than the SE and force you to rewire every headphone / iem you buy.

But if S1 were actually better than Cobalt I would go for that, also considering how much I would save.


----------



## BobJS

sm0rf said:


> They should add some better cables, since they're  obviously 💩 compared to the otherwise fabulous product.
> Like other people mine became flimsy too and have to bend it into one direction to avoid steady disconnects between UBS-DAC and device.



Agreed.  Mine was DOA.


----------



## _daRK

sebek said:


> I'm thinking of getting one, I think more Cobalt than Red.
> 
> It's because I no longer want to deal with balanced outputs that sound better and are more powerful than the SE and force you to rewire every headphone / iem you buy.
> 
> But if S1 were actually better than Cobalt I would go for that, also considering how much I would save.


I haven't test Cobalt yet, but I guess SQ is better on the Cobalt side.


----------



## hakunamakaka

_daRK said:


> I haven't test Cobalt yet, but I guess SQ is better on the Cobalt side.



How do you come to this conclusion ? Cobalt did not impressed me at all, same aggressive approach as seen in multiple other dongles, not my cup of tea


----------



## corgifall

corgifall said:


> It is a pretty good adapter with some quirks. On my iPhone 12 pro I have to plug it in like 3-5 times and wait till I finally get sound out of anything connected to it. It works but I don't think I've seen anyone complain about this on other iphones. I like it though. I would recommend it and the cable DDhifi sells with it.


After more testing it would seem I possibly got a defective unit haha If I plug it in then push up on the adapter it instantly connects. Strange but It's consistent. I do like this setup and recommend it for those looking for something to attach to their iphone.


----------



## Kal El

I have a/b tested and compared the S1 and the BTR5 for a couple of days through balanced output, without any EQ and trying low and high gain. I used Shuoer EJ07, iBasso IT01S and Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 32ohm through 3.5mm single ended output. I don't have power-hungry full size headphones because 90% of the time I use IEMs. 

S1 has better sq imho, but BTR5 is more powerful (both have enough power but Fiio has more) and very practical and versatile. I think I will keep both because S1 sounds more clear, detailed and linear to me, while BTR5 sounds fuller.

I always use low gain but I have a doubt: is it better to use high gain and lower volume or low gain and higher volume?


----------



## sebek

Kal El said:


> I have a/b tested and compared the S1 and the BTR5 for a couple of days through balanced output, without any EQ and trying low and high gain. I used Shuoer EJ07, iBasso IT01S and Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 32ohm through 3.5mm single ended output. I don't have power-hungry full size headphones because 90% of the time I use IEMs.
> 
> S1 has better sq imho, but BTR5 is more powerful (both have enough power but Fiio has more) and very practical and versatile. I think I will keep both because S1 sounds more clear, detailed and linear to me, while BTR5 sounds fuller.
> 
> I always use low gain but I have a doubt: is it better to use high gain and lower volume or low gain and higher volume?


Did you try BTR5 only Bluetooth? USB DAC is definitely better, maybe wired it could sound as good as S1 ...

High gain on BTR5 introduces a lot of noise, with low gain the sound has always seemed much clearer and more detailed


----------



## povidlo

sm0rf said:


> They should add some better cables, since they're  obviously 💩 compared to the otherwise fabulous product.
> Like other people mine became flimsy too and have to bend it into one direction to avoid steady disconnects between UBS-DAC and device.


Would be sick if they could update cables via firmware...

Just get the ddhifi cable and call it a day.


----------



## leaky74 (Jan 18, 2021)

If anyone wants a decent budget knock about IEM - the iBasso IT00 pairs really well with the S1. Just out walking the dog with that combo as I speak.....


----------



## Sluggist

Has someone been able to use the s1 with a windows 7 pc ? It doesn't work out of the nox, and I cant find drivers for it....


----------



## povidlo

Sluggist said:


> Has someone been able to use the s1 with a windows 7 pc ? It doesn't work out of the nox, and I cant find drivers for it....


*New Features with Firmware V1.0.0.6:-*
>Added UAC1 mode that enables the DAC to be used with gaming consoles and windows 7/8 PCs.

*How to Use UAC1 Mode:-*
Hold the “+” key on Lotoo PAW S1 then connect to the gaming device, “UAC1 MODE” will be shown on S1 during booting.

Reconnect without  “+” key held will switch back to normal mode(UAC2).

*Please Note:-*
In UAC1 Mode，Audio spec is fixed to 48KHz/16bit and no DoP is supported.


----------



## Sluggist (Jan 18, 2021)

povidlo said:


> *New Features with Firmware V1.0.0.6:-*
> >Added UAC1 mode that enables the DAC to be used with gaming consoles and windows 7/8 PCs.
> 
> *How to Use UAC1 Mode:-*
> ...


Damn.. thanks I thought I was entering UAC1 mode by pressing down the FN key. Lol. Wondering why it wasn't working. 😅😅 I really should update/buy a new laptop.


----------



## cadgers

Anyone know if any of the EQ presets are a sub bass shelf?


----------



## darren700

cadgers said:


> Anyone know if any of the EQ presets are a sub bass shelf?



you can view the EQ curves here: 
https://www.klauseulenbach.de/2020/06/27/lotoo-paw-s1-filter-presets/

unfortunately it doesnt look like there is a any with a sub bass shelf, closest is "full bass"


----------



## waveSounds

My original Lotoo cable is holding up but even with minimal use from phone in pocket, the sharp angle and the additional weight of the S1 don't bode well for its longevity. So I spent a while trying to find a reasonably priced replacement and didn't have too much luck. Until that is, I realised you don't need an OTG cable where USB C to USB C is concerned; that made life somewhat simpler. Still finding a 90 degree C to C cable yields few results, they're out there, but only one end tends to be angled. I could live with that but I think a 3 ft cable (shortest I could find) is a _tad_ unnecessary for this purpose. In the end I settled on this lil guy. Works perfectly and while it's not angled, the flat and springy rubberised cable mean it's not really an issue. Hope this can help others looking for a short, reasonably priced C to C cable, because I'm no tech n00b but it took me a while to find that you don't have to look for OTG specification as that was throwing me off!


----------



## darren700

There are three options for usb c to usb c that I know of that are good quality.
I've ordered all 3.

Ddhifi tc05 (very nice and flexible)
Fiio LT-TC1 (a bit longer than ddhifi, also really flexible)
WooAudio Custom USB C Cable (dont have yet)

I've been using the ddhifi, I like its looks and flexibility the best with my paw s1. Have not compared sound wise.


----------



## felix3650

I found this one:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOxIdnn

It's shortest length is 20cm but cheaper than the woo one.

This can be interesting too:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mscOzo1


----------



## hakunamakaka

felix3650 said:


> I found this one:
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOxIdnn
> 
> ...



These stiff and hardened USB-C or Lighting connectors will break  at their very ends once you start using them in pockets, especially the part which is connecting to your phone as it is heavier than S1. I've tried multiple cheapos (5$-20$), 90 degrees angled cables from ali express, they lasted longer than Lotoo original cable, but still after a month or so I was getting signal loses. If you will take care how S1 and your phone will sit in your pockets they might do the job and last long time, but personally I can't be bothered with such things when I'm out /exercising or when I need to text someone back I just pop out the phone. For this Woo Audio cable was the best, I got so lazy with it that I would even let S1 hang in weird angles when I was texting someone. For people who just can't be bothered with connectivity loss, forget Aliexpress.


----------



## waveSounds

darren700 said:


> There are three options for usb c to usb c that I know of that are good quality.
> I've ordered all 3.
> 
> Ddhifi tc05 (very nice and flexible)
> ...





hakunamakaka said:


> These stiff and hardened USB-C or Lighting connectors will break  at their very ends once you start using them in pockets, especially the part which is connecting to your phone as it is heavier than S1. I've tried multiple cheapos (5$-20$), 90 degrees angled cables from ali express, they lasted longer than Lotoo original cable, but still after a month or so I was getting signal loses. If you will take care how S1 and your phone will sit in your pockets they might do the job and last long time, but personally I can't be bothered with such things when I'm out /exercising or when I need to text someone back I just pop out the phone. For this Woo Audio cable was the best, I got so lazy with it that I would even let S1 hang in weird angles when I was texting someone. For people who just can't be bothered with connectivity loss, forget Aliexpress.



No doubt the DDHiFi and Fiio ones will arguable be better in other uses than the one I posted because of their additional flexibility, but other than the WooAudio cable, I wouldn't want to use any of those for in pocket duties. Again, because of the sharp angle that'll be placed just above the connector from the phone end. I snapped an in situ example of the one I'm using:


----------



## hakunamakaka

For on the go use only 90 degress angled cables should be considered. Woo audio ones are specifically made for that purpose. I don't know why they have photos in their website which doesn't match real product. Mine came in as an example below, with very thick plastic shielding. I tried to look for other similar  products within EU, but couldn't find one. Not feeling confident now as I have sold it with S1 and if newly released L&P W2 proves to be without EMI noise and similar qualities to S1 I will have to re-order it again with all these US import taxes on top :/


----------



## musicday

Yes there will be 


hakunamakaka said:


> For on the go use only 90 degress angled cables should be considered. Woo audio ones are specifically made for that purpose. I don't know why they have photos in their website which doesn't match real product. Mine came in as an example below, with very thick plastic shielding. I tried to look for other similar  products within EU, but couldn't find one. Not feeling confident now as I have sold it with S1 and if newly released L&P W2 proves to be without EMI noise and similar qualities to S1 I will have to re-order it again with all these US import taxes on top :/


I want to buy W2 but there will be tax and 50 USD shipping.
But sacrifices can be made in the name of sound.


----------



## bluestorm1992

Some update. Lotoo told me that they just got back from the MQA certification team in UK. The MQA firmware update should be available right after the Chinese New Year, i.e., early/mid Feb.


----------



## Maru10

bluestorm1992 said:


> Some update. Lotoo told me that the latest ETA of the MQA firmware is right after the Chinese New Year, i.e., early/mid Feb.


Wow, after all that hinting during Christmas I would not be surprised if they meant New Year 2024 or so


----------



## bluestorm1992

Maru10 said:


> Wow, after all that hinting during Christmas I would not be surprised if they meant New Year 2024 or so


Things seem quite bad at UK currently... I wanted to buy some products from Chord, but their factory is completely down.


----------



## hakunamakaka

There is so much hype regards this MQA format, did anyone tried to down-sample MQA to lower quality 320 per say and test ? You can beat me with the stick, but I can't hear anything above 320kbps with my most resolving equipment and I believe just only small group of people can. If they re-master albums and encode it for MQA than for sure differences should be obvious, but if that's another shiny name for hi-res music their business would go down together with tidal. Another interesting part is that no other streaming services shown much interest in MQA


----------



## musicday

bluestorm1992 said:


> Some update. Lotoo told me that they just got back from the MQA certification team in UK. The MQA firmware update should be available right after the Chinese New Year, i.e., early/mid Feb.


Anything else apart the MQA decoding?


----------



## bluestorm1992

musicday said:


> Anything else apart the MQA decoding?


I did not ask them.


----------



## WareZ

Combover Grover said:


> Anyone else find that the S1 sounds significantly better connected to a computer vs a mobile device?  Had only used it on my ipad and iphone, but just connected it to my iMac and it totally opens up to another level.



I've found this to be true of most portable devices that do not have an internal power supply, i.e., draw power from the source... This is most likely due to phones having a sofware limit on how many volts it can output, whereas a computer can output as many volts as the device request. Normally 2v for these devices, while your phone is hovering around 1.4 maximum iirc.


----------



## Lu88 (Jan 25, 2021)

Finally, the new MQA supported firmware is out!
http://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html

IMPORTANT NOTICE: To support MQA, Please update 1.0.0.8 then 1.0.0.9 in sequence
1.0.0.8
Update Driver for MQA Support
1.0.0.9
MQA Supported

Official anouncement on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1586633894855893


----------



## twister6

Here is a big question.  I updated the fw, and able to connect S1 to my Win10 laptop running Tidal app for Windows where I can select under streaming option the following:





to enable MQA 4x unfolding in S1





BUT, this setting is only available on Tidal desktop app.  When I go into Tidal android app on my phone, these settings are NOT available.  So, how to get S1 w/MQA to work on the phone?  I know many people are raving about UAPP app and using it for Tidal streaming.  Is that the only way to be able to use S1 with a smartphone and MQA full unfolding?  Is there a setting in UAPP app to make it work?  Or is there another trick in original Tidal android app?


----------



## AlexCBSN

twister6 said:


> Here is a big question.  I updated the fw, and able to connect S1 to my Win10 laptop running Tidal app for Windows where I can select under streaming option the following:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


On iPad, it says ofx x4 and it doesn’t allow efx to be used, besides it only makes one fold


----------



## Devodonaldson

twister6 said:


> Here is a big question.  I updated the fw, and able to connect S1 to my Win10 laptop running Tidal app for Windows where I can select under streaming option the following:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It works with iOS devices as they do bitperfect output via USB. Android sends all audio through the Android audio stack, so it all gets resample. So, the only way to get MQA on an Android device is through STREAMING through UAPP. That is how Android works, unfortunately


----------



## CANiSLAYu

Devodonaldson said:


> It works with iOS devices as they do bitperfect output via USB. Android sends all audio through the Android audio stack, so it all gets resample. So, the only way to get MQA on an Android device is through STREAMING through UAPP. That is how Android works, unfortunately


This.


----------



## JimJim

https://www.facebook.com/2077561479003498/posts/3666816523411311/

MQA update and how.


----------



## musicday

Now we have MQA decoding. Well done Lotoo, the S1 is even better now then before.
A great purchase for me.


----------



## stersa

Fantastic upgrade...

Tks Lotoo

Best regards

Sisco


----------



## musicday

stersa said:


> Fantastic upgrade...
> 
> Tks Lotoo
> 
> ...


What IEM/headphones do you use with S1 and will you consider buying the Luxury and Precision W2 for higher power output?


----------



## stersa

Fantastic pairing with my 3 Top Iems..S1 is connected to my Imac or My Smartphone..
Sony Ier Z1R
UM Mest
Campfire Solaris SE

i m waiting a new Ibasso Dx300.

Best Regards

Sisco


----------



## AlexCBSN

Can anyone report what does it display on iOS devices? I’m getting 44.1k/ 32b on a tidal masters track on my iPad, on my Mac it displays 96/ 24.
Same ofs x 4 and mqa text... mmmm... will wait for more impressions and comments


----------



## Damz87

AlexCBSN said:


> Can anyone report what does it display on iOS devices? I’m getting 44.1k/ 32b on a tidal masters track on my iPad, on my Mac it displays 96/ 24.
> Same ofs x 4 and mqa text... mmmm... will wait for more impressions and comments


Mine is saying OFS x4


----------



## stersa

You must activate Passthrough MQA in S1 Tidal configuration..you will see MQA

best Regards

Sisco


----------



## AlexCBSN

Damz87 said:


> Mine is saying OFS x4


What about the bit rate info sorry? Mine says the ofs x4 too but the bit rate remains in 44.1 and 32b


----------



## Palash

*Tidal Identified PAW S1 as MQA device.*




*S1 can decode MQA both software and hardware level. If you use passthrough MQA in Tidal desktop app it decode via hardware.*




*24bit 352.8khz MQA decoding via UAPP. Sorry for the poor quality image.*


----------



## Ales R

AlexCBSN said:


> Can anyone report what does it display on iOS devices? I’m getting 44.1k/ 32b on a tidal masters track on my iPad, on my Mac it displays 96/ 24.
> Same ofs x 4 and mqa text... mmmm... will wait for more impressions and comments


With iOS Tidal app S1 shows OFS/4X 44.1K/32b, on Mac Tidal app S1 shows MQA./4X but still only 44.1K/32b (Audio output S1, Passthrough MQA disable - i think full unfold made by S1 - this is right way?) 
But iOS Tidal app haven’t option Passthrough MQA, what´s the right way to setup???


----------



## BobJS

Lu88 said:


> Finally, the new MQA supported firmware is out!
> http://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html
> 
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: To support MQA, Please update 1.0.0.8 then 1.0.0.9 in sequence
> ...



That was easy!!


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Jan 25, 2021)

Lotoo engineer told me that OFS 4X means 2X from software decoding, and 2X from hardware decoding. 

I think this should effectively work the same as MQA 4X which is 4X hardware decoding?

Edit: OK got the follow-up answer that OSF 4X and MQA 4X both give the same output. The SQ should be the same so long as you see 4X. No need to worry.


----------



## Ales R

TIDAL iOS APP (HI-FI), MASTER quality song
S1 before upgrading (1.0.0.7): PCM 88.2K/32b
S1 after upgrading (1.0.0.9): MQA 44.1K/32b, OSF/4X
Which one output is better??


----------



## twister6

That was it, UAPP app did the trick in Android.

While I don't use Tidal, just borrowing a login from a friend for test purpose, seems like S1 is being recognized without a problem as MQA enabled device and displays MQA / 4X.  Not sure how to correlate that UAPP (just installed it) shows USB DAC as 48k device, played track is MQA 96k/24b, while S1 displays MQA 96k/32b.  But nevertheless, S1 used with Tidal desktop app on Win10 and UAPP/Tidal Android app is being recognized as MQA device.


----------



## waveSounds

@twister6 My S1 always shows a 32 bit rate when using UAPP, even prior to the the MQA update, regardless of what's being played. Weird.


----------



## trez0r

waveSounds said:


> @twister6 My S1 always shows a 32 bit rate when using UAPP, even prior to the the MQA update, regardless of what's being played. Weird.



AFAIK 32bit is depth of queue on interface... When data is 16, 24 bit or so, 0s added to fill up the gap.


----------



## Sluggist

For those looking for angled usb c to usb c cables..

 xduoo xc-12 (store I bought it from had only 1 in stock)

Wooaudio custom cable (took too long to arrive because I'm located in South East Asia)

Those two are the only angled usb c cables I could find and buy. 

Having an angled connector really helps getting the cable out of the way...


----------



## corgifall

Bummed there wasn't a way to remove some of the EQ options this update but the MQA will be a nice additional selling point.


----------



## choisan (Jan 26, 2021)

just updated to fw09. when this unit plays with iphone 12, it can't change volume as the sound was already very loud from the unit when low/high gain was selected, as well as effect selected too.
also, volume was normal when nothing gain or effect was selected.
using with android phone has no issue.

am i the only 1?


----------



## Bondipix

choisan said:


> just updated to fw09. when this unit plays with iphone 12, it can't change volume as the sound was already very loud from the unit when low/high gain was selected, as well as effect selected too.
> also, volume was normal when nothing gain or effect was selected.
> using with android phone has no issue.
> 
> am i the only 1?


I’m getting noticeably higher volumes and increased resolution after updating, at least while using 4.4 balanced. Everything else is as before. I don’t have a need for mqa but the fw update seems to have refined the S1 further. Excellent!


----------



## corgifall (Jan 26, 2021)

choisan said:


> just updated to fw09. when this unit plays with iphone 12, it can't change volume as the sound was already very loud from the unit when low/high gain was selected, as well as effect selected too.
> also, volume was normal when nothing gain or effect was selected.
> using with android phone has no issue.
> 
> am i the only 1?


I have no issues on my iPhone 12 Pro. Volume is also the exact same number wise to what I used prior to the update.


----------



## Ales R

corgifall said:


> I have no issues on my iPhone 12 Pro. Volume is also the exact same number wise to what I used prior to the update.


+1


----------



## Sluggist

Any issues on 1.0.0.9 ? Bugs? I just updated to it, but personally haven't encountered any....


----------



## corgifall

Sluggist said:


> Any issues on 1.0.0.9 ? Bugs? I just updated to it, but personally haven't encountered any....


Nothing I’ve seen. The S1 gets warm if playing MQA constantly. Nothing I’d say concerning though.


----------



## povidlo

Sluggist said:


> Any issues on 1.0.0.9 ? Bugs? I just updated to it, but personally haven't encountered any....


MQA feature doesn't seem to work properly on my android phones and DAP through the native Tidal app. Tried playing tracks of different sample rates but S1 shows the same sample rate for all of them and doesn't show MQA/OSF.

UAPP works swell, though.

Downside is cannot use Tidal offline.


----------



## povidlo

Ales R said:


> TIDAL iOS APP (HI-FI), MASTER quality song
> S1 before upgrading (1.0.0.7): PCM 88.2K/32b
> S1 after upgrading (1.0.0.9): MQA 44.1K/32b, OSF/4X
> Which one output is better??


The latter should be better because I assume the track you were playing is streamed at 44.1K sample rate. 

Before the update, all Tidal Masters tracks would've been re-sampled to 88.2K or 96K- regardless of their original sample rate.

From my understanding, now Tidal Masters plays in the original sample rate.


----------



## doboo57

I hear a slight cut at the beginning of each MQA track (with UAPP and with the Tidal app on my PC)...


----------



## doboo57

This seems to occur when there is a bitrate change between MQA tracks. 
Anyone experienced that?

For the rest, anything seems to run pretty well with this new firmware 1.0.0.9


----------



## bluestorm1992

povidlo said:


> MQA feature doesn't seem to work properly on my android phones and DAP through the native Tidal app. Tried playing tracks of different sample rates but S1 shows the same sample rate for all of them and doesn't show MQA/OSF.
> 
> UAPP works swell, though.
> 
> Downside is cannot use Tidal offline.


For Android you have to use UAPP. This is because native Android always does resampling.


----------



## jsmiller58

povidlo said:


> MQA feature doesn't seem to work properly on my android phones and DAP through the native Tidal app. Tried playing tracks of different sample rates but S1 shows the same sample rate for all of them and doesn't show MQA/OSF.
> 
> UAPP works swell, though.
> 
> Downside is cannot use Tidal offline.


What @bluestorm1992 said...  You will need UAPP, and to take advantage of MQA that means streaming through UAPP.  Basic limitation of how Android works.  I think I read somewhere that the HiBy may have fixed this in the R6 Pro and this weekend I will get around to doing the S1 update and trying this out on the R6 Pro.  Otherwise, I think Android has a fundamental limitation.


----------



## chaotic_angel

doboo57 said:


> I hear a slight cut at the beginning of each MQA track (with UAPP and with the Tidal app on my PC)...



Same here cut off at 1st sec of the mqa song, UAPP + MQA extension, I have mentioned it to Lotoo via FB messenger, give them sometimes to fix the bug, iirc the journey of 1.0.0.7 to 1.0.0.9 is not short almost 1/2 year.


----------



## Franccy

I have a problem with the new update. When I connect my headphones to an Android phone though S1, it generates loud buzzing sound in the speakers. I am certain this has to do with the new update since it never occurred before. Does any Android user here share the same problem?


----------



## chaotic_angel

chaotic_angel said:


> Same here cut off at 1st sec of the mqa song, UAPP + MQA extension, I have mentioned it to Lotoo via FB messenger, give them sometimes to fix the bug, iirc the journey of 1.0.0.7 to 1.0.0.9 is not short almost 1/2 year.



speaking abt the devil, there you go FW 1.0.0.10

https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html


----------



## musicday (Jan 27, 2021)

Thank you, what are the chances?
Will update asap 

Answer: The known compatibility problem is solved.👍


----------



## stersa

chaotic_angel said:


> speaking abt the devil, there you go FW 1.0.0.10
> 
> https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html




Many tsk for information..

Upgraded.




Best

Sisco


----------



## doboo57

Franccy said:


> I have a problem with the new update. When I connect my headphones to an Android phone though S1, it generates loud buzzing sound in the speakers. I am certain this has to do with the new update since it never occurred before. Does any Android user here share the same problem?


Yeah, it does it once yesterday. Hope this 1.0.0.10 version Will fix that too.


----------



## chaotic_angel

at 1.0.0.10 using with ROON windows, so the UAC1 needs to be activated, I found that the the S1 is not detecting MQA from ROON, any idea what is wrong?


----------



## doboo57

chaotic_angel said:


> Same here cut off at 1st sec of the mqa song, UAPP + MQA extension, I have mentioned it to Lotoo via FB messenger, give them sometimes to fix the bug, iirc the journey of 1.0.0.7 to 1.0.0.9 is not short almost 1/2 year.


I can confirm that 1.0.0.10 does not fix that cutting problem.
Tested with UAPP and Tidal app from my PC.

Looking for 1.0.0.11 now...


----------



## stersa (Jan 27, 2021)

chaotic_angel said:


> at 1.0.0.10 using with ROON windows, so the UAC1 needs to be activated, I found that the the S1 is not detecting MQA from ROON, any idea what is wrong?




No problem in ROOn Mac OS..

You must change in S1 device setup..to. MQA DECODER and RENDERER..









Best Regards

Sisco


----------



## dgjl

It's been mentioned a couple of times above, but did anybody ever get to the bottom of why the S1's little screen shows 32b even though the stream is 16b or 24b? Happens on Android/UAPP and on Win10, streaming Qobuz wasapi exclusive (latest 1.0.0.10 fw).


----------



## waveSounds

It only occurs for me when using UAPP (and probably Android apps, too). Tidal on Win 10 is fine, same for Foobar. Someone earlier mentioned that with UAPP it outputs 32b as it's filling the information with zeros. I have no idea what this means but I can live with it.


----------



## dgjl

waveSounds said:


> It only occurs for me when using UAPP (and probably Android apps, too). Tidal on Win 10 is fine, same for Foobar. Someone earlier mentioned that with UAPP it outputs 32b as it's filling the information with zeros. I have no idea what this means but I can live with it.


Fair enough, I know UAPP does miracles with those zeros... But that wouldn't explain this on Win10 Qobuz app, wasapi exclusive:


----------



## Rcuello56

doboo57 said:


> Yeah, it does it once yesterday. Hope this 1.0.0.10 version Will fix that too.


Hi, I had the same problem, now fixed with 1.0.0.10


----------



## waveSounds

dgjl said:


> Fair enough, I know UAPP does miracles with those zeros... But that wouldn't explain this on Win10 Qobuz app, wasapi exclusive:



Afraid I'm not a Qobuz user but sure one will chime in shortly. I'd imagine it's either something to do with the device exclusivity settings, or if those are setup correctly, then maybe Quobuz also sprinkles some additional magical zeros á la UAPP.


----------



## NCUS

waveSounds said:


> Afraid I'm not a Qobuz user but sure one will chime in shortly. I'd imagine it's either something to do with the device exclusivity settings, or if those are setup correctly, then maybe Quobuz also sprinkles some additional magical zeros á la UAPP.


The 32-bit vs. 24 vs 16 isn't related to the source from Qobuz, it's related to how data moves from your computer to the Lotoo.  On my system, the sampling rate changes with the source but it always says 32-bit.  

Qobuz files are fairly pristine.  Tidal may or may not do something with its files because of how it supports MQA.  I have read elsewhere that MQA applies some type of equalization to get compression.


----------



## felix3650

From my understanding, the 32b output has to do with bit padding and lossless volume control (the volume is exclusively controlled by the S1 on both UAPP and Windows players). This is with PCM. I've not tested MQA yet. Need to update mine to the newest firmware.


----------



## 12audio

soundblast75 said:


> I'm very surprised, didn't expect this coming.
> Got a new Realme 7 Pro, what a phone, even if you have more expensive one, just buy it, incredible value 🙂
> But guess what, S1 doesn't work,
> W11 Topaz, Cobalt, Hipdac, all work great.
> Anything I need to know??


I dont think I understood you correctly it works with like cobalt,hipdac etc but not with the s1?!


----------



## Lu88

chaotic_angel said:


> at 1.0.0.10 using with ROON windows, so the UAC1 needs to be activated, I found that the the S1 is not detecting MQA from ROON, any idea what is wrong?



Did you check how to Roon setting on PAW S1 MQA User Manual?
http://www.lotoo.cn/download/PAW S1 MQA User Manual.pdf
https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html


----------



## musicday

It seems to me the sound has improved with the latest firmware 1.0.0.10
Bass goes deeper and the clarity and separation is better overall. Very pleased especially with Netflix.


----------



## felix3650

musicday said:


> It seems to me the sound has improved with the latest firmware 1.0.0.10
> Bass goes deeper and the clarity and separation is better overall. Very pleased especially with Netflix.


You're not alone. I too have the impression that dynamics kinda improved. I'm finding a bit better separation, slightly more musical sound with my LZ A7. And this is using the 3.5mm jack. Haven't tried balanced yet. I'm still waiting for a cable.


----------



## waveSounds (Jan 28, 2021)

The headphone amp on my Dangerous Source was never well suited to sensitive iems but I found it fine with the iFi IEMatch, but this is now my sole method of iem listening*.






*With the iems in my ears, that is.


----------



## musicday

https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/粗壮的小以巴-lotoo-paw-s1测量/

Lotoo Paw S1 measurements for who care.


----------



## NZtechfreak

musicday said:


> https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/粗壮的小以巴-lotoo-paw-s1测量/
> 
> Lotoo Paw S1 measurements for who care.



From an older firmware, from memory someone had asked him if he is able to repeat on current firmware.


----------



## leaky74

Any suggestions for a cheap source for use with S1 that has streaming capability? Just after an alternative to draining my phone battery more than I need to.


----------



## CANiSLAYu

HiBy R2 (Qobuz or Tidal only though).


----------



## Devodonaldson

leaky74 said:


> Any suggestions for a cheap source for use with S1 that has streaming capability? Just after an alternative to draining my phone battery more than I need to.


A used old phone. IOS will give you bitperfect usb audio, Android will run cheaper.


----------



## leaky74

CANiSLAYu said:


> HiBy R2 (Qobuz or Tidal only though).






Devodonaldson said:


> A used old phone. IOS will give you bitperfect usb audio, Android will run cheaper.



Yeah, I was thinking of picking up an iPod touch as I mainly use Amazon for streaming now


----------



## leaky74

leaky74 said:


> Yeah, I was thinking of picking up an iPod touch as I mainly use Amazon for streaming now



I did even wonder if Amazon Fire Tablets handle USB audio


----------



## CANiSLAYu

leaky74 said:


> Yeah, I was thinking of picking up an iPod touch as I mainly use Amazon for streaming now


I did this with my Micro iDSD Signature because iOS works better with Roon than Android, except it was an iPhone SE 2020. I’d suggest looking into that over an iPod touch as the specs are much better and it’s cheaper at the same time. This one is tied to Total Wireless, but I just never activated it and use WiFi only. It was $150, but had to buy 1 month of service at $25.


----------



## bmoregnr (Jan 29, 2021)

I tried an ipod touch recently for a home MPD/DLNA setup to replace an iphone 7 doing the job and I was surprised at how under resourced the touch was and couldn't seem to handle the job well at all; so I'd also recommend and older or used phone.  I went with an ipad mini in that home situation and it was much better for the job.


----------



## chaotic_angel

Lu88 said:


> Did you check how to Roon setting on PAW S1 MQA User Manual?
> http://www.lotoo.cn/download/PAW S1 MQA User Manual.pdf
> https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html



helo, thanks for the info, but I have check on my Roon it seems that the mentioned option is not appears. As well as when connected to my Windows  and doing TIDAL, I need to enter UAC1 and I dont seems to find other way for it to be detected.. so still no success for me connecting the S1 to windows for MQA


----------



## Lu88

chaotic_angel said:


> helo, thanks for the info, but I have check on my Roon it seems that the mentioned option is not appears. As well as when connected to my Windows  and doing TIDAL, I need to enter UAC1 and I dont seems to find other way for it to be detected.. so still no success for me connecting the S1 to windows for MQA


It seems that S1 has no MQA support in UAC1 mode.

I have confirmed with my iPhone below.
When connect iPhone(Amarra Play) to S1(UAC2), S1 shows "MQA 44.1K/32b" on the LCD during MQA playback.
But when connect iPhone(Amarra Play) to S1(UAC1), S1 shows "UAC1 48K/16b" on the LCD.


----------



## Devodonaldson

leaky74 said:


> Yeah, I was thinking of picking up an iPod touch as I mainly use Amazon for streaming now


I currently use an iphone 7 256gb I got on ebay. Battery health is 78% now. Got an Apple battery case as it has same lightning port functionality, so now great battery life even when connected to s1 for long periods.


----------



## waveSounds

Personally, I use an old Atari as a source and it sounds great.


----------



## dgjl (Jan 30, 2021)

Some folks may be interested in a few comparative thoughts on the Dragonfly Cobalt and the S1 - they are _very _different.

IMO The DFC is better in the following ways:
- wider soundstage
- more space between the instruments
- better dynamics
- a more forward sound
- no interference

IMO the S1 is better in the following ways:
- fuller, richer, warmer, thicker.
- bigger sound
- laid back
- more musical - a sweeter tone (just plain pretty)
- 4.4 output

Tested with Qobuz hi-res through UAPP (android) and Desktop app using Westone W60 IEMs and spinfits. No FX or eq on the S1.

Using the 3.5 output the S1 shows all these qualities, but through the balanced 4.4, they are shown to a higher extent. It's a lovely sound. At the moment the S1 is my favoured player, but that may be because it's the new boy (I've been using the DFC for about a year, and had a DFR before that). In a month or so I may prise the Westones off the balanced cable and go back to the DFC and think 'wow'. I'm certainly not selling it yet. Hard to go wrong with either.


----------



## musicday

The only problem I have the with Lotoo Paw S1 but it doesn't bother me is, when connected to my Windows 7 Ultimate 64 and watching Netflix for example in the UAC 1 mode, the sound is great, but when I pause the movie for more then 3 times I get lots of static noise and I can't use it like that anymore.
To solve the problem I have to discount it, refresh the Netflix page, and enter again in the UAC 1 mode.
Anyone with similar setup had this problem?


----------



## Bastianpp (Jan 31, 2021)

DavidS11 said:


> yes, firmware updatable with promised of future update to enable MQA too
> 
> Free feel to add/comments any other info. No official spec released from Lotoo yet.


pfff MQA bullsh1t. Any interesting update rather than liar thing called Mqa??


----------



## musicday

Bastianpp said:


> pfff MQA bullsh1t. Any interesting update rather than liar thing called Mqa??


Better sound overall, read the few posts back.


----------



## Bastianpp

musicday said:


> Better sound overall, read the few posts back.


without the MQA, of course.


----------



## musicday

I don't really use MQA myself but I welcome the new update. The S1 sounds better to my years now.


----------



## waveSounds

Bastianpp said:


> pfff MQA bullsh1t. Any interesting update rather than liar thing called Mqa??





Bastianpp said:


> without the MQA, of course.



Did MQA steal your lunches at school or something?


----------



## Strifeff7

waveSounds said:


> Did MQA steal your lunches at school or something?


" MQA is useless,
All cable sound the same,
Eartips doesn't affect the sound,
My blon is better than your Odin, "

There is always people like that.


----------



## Bastianpp

waveSounds said:


> Did MQA steal your lunches at school or something?


They only steal money for nothing , the only real thing that is doing mqa is saving storage to Tidal and the people is happy to pay for that because of their marketing lair. Even manufacturers like ps audio know that mqa is doing nothing and is bullsh1t but they need to pay to mqa because the people wanna hear the marketing. 

LOL. There is always a people like strifeff, who believe in Santa Claus.


----------



## twister6

Bastianpp said:


> They only steal money for nothing , the only real thing that is doing mqa is saving storage to Tidal and the people is happy to pay for that because of their marketing lair. Even manufacturers like ps audio know that mqa is doing nothing and is bullsh1t but they need to pay to mqa because the people wanna hear the marketing.
> 
> LOL. There is always a people like strifeff, who believe in Santa Claus.



I know where you are coming from, but the point here is that many people use Tidal with its MQA-driven service, regardless if you/we hear or don't the difference.  Other usb DACs obtained MQA license and now Lotoo S1 is compliant as well, making its product more competitive.  So, good for Lotoo to have it under their belt, regardless who find it useful


----------



## Bastianpp (Jan 31, 2021)

twister6 said:


> I know where you are coming from, but the point here is that many people use Tidal with its MQA-driven service, regardless if you/we hear or don't the difference.  Other usb DACs obtained MQA license and now Lotoo S1 is compliant as well, making its product more competitive.  So, good for Lotoo to have it under their belt, regardless who find it useful



I don't find a product with MQA more competitive, in fact i don't even buy it.  I don't wanna support a company(mqa) asking money from manufacturers and the end user pay them, if you wanna support that, it's ok because is your money. For my part not, i don't wanna a wave of companies doing nothing and destroying the audio.

End of the discuss from my part.


----------



## jsmiller58

Bastianpp said:


> I don't find a product with MQA more competitive, in fact i don't even buy it.  I don't wanna support a company(mqa) asking money from manufacturers and the end user pay them, if you wanna support that, it's ok because is your money. For my part not, i don't wanna a wave of companies doing nothing and destroying the audio.
> 
> End of the discuss from my part.


Probably good it is the end of the discussion for you, since you made your feelings and thoughts completely clear a few posts back and, I hazard to guess, you will change precisely zero minds if you proceed.  And while you certainly won’t change your mind, notice no one tried.


----------



## musicday

Bastianpp said:


> I don't find a product with MQA more competitive, in fact i don't even buy it.  I don't wanna support a company(mqa) asking money from manufacturers and the end user pay them, if you wanna support that, it's ok because is your money. For my part not, i don't wanna a wave of companies doing nothing and destroying the audio.
> 
> End of the discuss from my part.


Buy the S1 and don't update to MQA support, problem solved.


----------



## snowy8171 (Feb 2, 2021)

edit


----------



## shinbojan

I just cannot decide if I should buy this and use it with my iphone or buy a DAP.
Can anyone tell me which of the popular DAPs (Fiio, iBasso) would be comparable to this one if I only care about SQ?


----------



## bmoregnr (Feb 2, 2021)

shinbojan said:


> I just cannot decide if I should buy this and use it with my iphone or buy a DAP.
> Can anyone tell me which of the popular DAPs (Fiio, iBasso) would be comparable to this one if I only care about SQ?


In the S1 they gave you a whole lot of the sound of their PAW DAPs for a lot less money, but most everyone who has the PAW6000 has been happy with it, I think its great https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lotoo-paw-6000-2019.907416/  I can't speak to others on the market now and only ever had a Pono and Fiio X5II prior to this.


----------



## musicday (Feb 2, 2021)

shinbojan said:


> I just cannot decide if I should buy this and use it with my iphone or buy a DAP.
> Can anyone tell me which of the popular DAPs (Fiio, iBasso) would be comparable to this one if I only care about SQ?


Is up to you and your budget. If you don't have hard to drive IEM's the S1 is a great affordable option.
And the fact that has no battery inside it should last you many years.


----------



## CANiSLAYu

Dongles are closer to DAPs in terms of SQ than you might think. “It’s cheaper, so it must not be as good” is what a lot of people think. Take a DAP and strip the screen, battery, WiFi and BT chips, Processor, RAM, storage, etc. and put what’s left in a smaller chassis. There’s your dongle. Best part is the dongle also works across multiple devices and you don’t have to worry about it being charged and every time you upgrade your phone you get a faster user experience. FiiO Android-based DAPs for example you’re locked into Android 7 and a low/mid end processor forever.

Buy the dongle and get your feet wet, then buy a DAP if it doesn’t meet your needs. Dongles are much cheaper, so you’d only be out a few bucks if you resell.


----------



## Elvandarfist (Feb 2, 2021)

Would love to hear about the impressions of how good (or not) it sounds, if someone has listened to the S1 paired with the Denon ah-d9200 😊


----------



## bmoregnr

CANiSLAYu said:


> Dongles are closer to DAPs in terms of SQ than you might think. “It’s cheaper, so it must not be as good” is what a lot of people think. Take a DAP and strip the screen, battery, WiFi and BT chips, Processor, RAM, storage, etc. and put what’s left in a smaller chassis. There’s your dongle. Best part is the dongle also works across multiple devices and you don’t have to worry about it being charged and every time you upgrade your phone you get a faster user experience. FiiO Android-based DAPs for example you’re locked into Android 7 and a low/mid end processor forever.
> 
> Buy the dongle and get your feet wet, then buy a DAP if it doesn’t meet your needs. Dongles are much cheaper, so you’d only be out a few bucks if you resell.


I think this is all true and that is good advice, and so by extension for @shinbonjan I would say it’s as much about managing the media itself. In my case the DAP has a 1T card so I can have a good chunk of what I’d have in a 2T capacity home file setup at the ready, importantly all lossless FLAC including hi res. For a phone, that is like 256G Iphone for me anyway, I don’t stream, so the phone is lossy and not flac when it gets used with the S1. So maybe think about what you’d want to accomplish storage/file type/lossy v. lossless/streaming/convenience as a starting place and if your phone gives you what you need and you don’t have an issue using its battery when you play music you’d mostly be good to go I’d imagine.


----------



## shinbojan

Yes, that is why I am unsure what to do. Dedicated device has bunch of pros, but price is a con.
200 for Paw is not a lot.  I was looking into M11 first...now I am thinking about buying M11Pro which is 700 + sd card. And that is a lot more than 200.
As for the headphones, I am using Dunu 2000j and Fidelio X2, planning to buy Fiio FH7.

The worst thing is - I cannot try out the devices anywhere. So relying on the advices from you, fine forum people.


----------



## musicday

shinbojan said:


> Yes, that is why I am unsure what to do. Dedicated device has bunch of pros, but price is a con.
> 200 for Paw is not a lot.  I was looking into M11 first...now I am thinking about buying M11Pro which is 700 + sd card. And that is a lot more than 200.
> As for the headphones, I am using Dunu 2000j and Fidelio X2, planning to buy Fiio FH7.
> 
> The worst thing is - I cannot try out the devices anywhere. So relying on the advices from you, fine forum people.


Just buy the S1, you will definitely love it, if not you can call me names.


----------



## NJoyzAudio

shinbojan said:


> I just cannot decide if I should buy this and use it with my iphone or buy a DAP.
> Can anyone tell me which of the popular DAPs (Fiio, iBasso) would be comparable to this one if I only care about SQ?


Shinbojan

Will spare you a long email and I've posted in this forum in the past about tihs, but I own both the PAW6000 and the S1 from Lotoo.  
Having come out of other DAP's and using other DAC/AMP combos, I am happy with both, due to similarities but find there is a time and place to own both, and reasons having both make sense.
I agree with other posters here, if you think you might be interested in the PAW6000 or PAW Gold Touch from Lotoo but not sure due the price, get the S1 first, see if the Lotoo "sound" is what you like (every listener has a "sound" profile they are chasing) and if its close or is what you like but now what the convenience of a DAP, then look at the Lotoo DAP's and then go up and down from there with other companies products.
You won't go wrong starting with the S1, as I've seen many sold quickly in the Head Fi Classifieds by people who did exactly what I mention above.
but you may find as I did, there is a time and place for using and owning both
But as always YMMV.
Good luck!


----------



## cadgers

Anyone know if the rubber case helps with EMI from my phone when using data? Not a huge deal but annoying.


----------



## jsmiller58

cadgers said:


> Anyone know if the rubber case helps with EMI from my phone when using data? Not a huge deal but annoying.


Should not help.  The electromagnetic radiation causing the interference will go right through it.


----------



## musicday

This Lotoo Paw S1 is very impressive at least for me and works wonderfully especially with right angle cable.
Watching movies on Netflix is a joy and the sound is fantastic.


----------



## rustyvinyl

Using Tidal mostly... With the latest firmware, S1 is complete.


----------



## Sluggist (Feb 5, 2021)

So, I've been trying out the update with mqa via tidal using uapp (lg v20).... The mqa can't seem to be consistently enabled by the time the next track plays....is it because of my hardware (lg v20) or software (android pie, uapp)  or is it my connection?  Here's what I mean.... It looks like it's trying to enable mqa, but it defaults back to pcm...

https://streamable.com/7os79u
(To be clear, I am not pressing the FN buttom in the video.)

I also tried using the tidal android app and mqa isn't being automatically enabled...


Edit:

Damn it. Quick fix is to enable BIT PERFECT MODE in uapp. Don't pick 'when possible'. 

Still couldn't get mqa to enable when using the android tidal app.


----------



## shinbojan (Feb 5, 2021)

Is Lightning to USB C cable included, or do I need to buy one?
If so, can you recommend me one?


----------



## musicday

shinbojan said:


> Is Lightning to USB C cable included, or do I need to buy one?
> If so, can you recommend me one?


Is not included and is always better to buy one of a higher quality. If you use it with your phone buy a right angled one.


----------



## Devodonaldson

shinbojan said:


> Is Lightning to USB C cable included, or do I need to buy one?
> If so, can you recommend me one?


Rhe only that that I've seen qork is the one from Lotoo. Ordsr from Musitek


----------



## Devodonaldson

Sluggist said:


> So, I've been trying out the update with mqa via tidal using uapp (lg v20).... The mqa can't seem to be consistently enabled by the time the next track plays....is it because of my hardware (lg v20) or software (android pie, uapp)  or is it my connection?  Here's what I mean.... It looks like it's trying to enable mqa, but it defaults back to pcm...
> 
> https://streamable.com/7os79u
> (To be clear, I am not pressing the FN buttom in the video.)
> ...


Can't enable MQA using tidal app on Android phone. No Android bypasses Android sample rate conversion to USB DAC


----------



## Sluggist

shinbojan said:


> Is Lightning to USB C cable included, or do I need to buy one?
> If so, can you recommend me one?



I am using the woo audio custom usb c cable (Termination: 90mm, Lightning decoding to USB-C) when I am using ios... They're a bit pricy tho at 49 usd. Other than that the only other cable that works is the one sold by lotoo.


----------



## quique77

Hi! I would like to know if there is much different regarding sound quality with the Dragonfly Cobalt. I have the DF but the Lotto and its balanced output catch my attention. Thanks a lot for the help!


----------



## jsmiller58

Sluggist said:


> So, I've been trying out the update with mqa via tidal using uapp (lg v20).... The mqa can't seem to be consistently enabled by the time the next track plays....is it because of my hardware (lg v20) or software (android pie, uapp)  or is it my connection?  Here's what I mean.... It looks like it's trying to enable mqa, but it defaults back to pcm...
> 
> https://streamable.com/7os79u
> (To be clear, I am not pressing the FN buttom in the video.)
> ...


Tidal app uses the Android audio stack and won’t output bit perfect stream that is required for any MQA enabled DAC.


----------



## musicday (Feb 5, 2021)

quique77 said:


> Hi! I would like to know if there is much different regarding sound quality with the Dragonfly Cobalt. I have the DF but the Lotto and its balanced output catch my attention. Thanks a lot for the help!


I haven't heard the dragonfly cobalt, but the S1 is superior in many ways and some will agree with me.
I am curious about the W2 when it comes out and probably keep them both.


----------



## quique77

Many thanks! I will have to try it!


----------



## dgjl

quique77 said:


> Hi! I would like to know if there is much different regarding sound quality with the Dragonfly Cobalt. I have the DF but the Lotto and its balanced output catch my attention. Thanks a lot for the help!


I was a longtime cobalt user and wrote a comparative post a few pages back. I'd give the S1 the edge for musicality and the dfc the edge for dynamism. Both great, but happier with the S1 at the moment, especially with balanced output.


----------



## quique77

Thanks for the response, I will check your post!


----------



## shinbojan (Feb 10, 2021)

Got my device yesterday and as I don't have an iphone adapter, I am using it connected to the laptop and having some issue with it.
There is crackling sound that is really irritating me. Besides that, when listening to MQA on Tidal sound gets cut off for a split second every minute or so (checked Task Manager, cpu and memory are not too high).
I've tried several different usb ports, both issues are happening. I've also updated firmware to the latest version.

One more thing I've noticed...if the screen is turned on, it keeps jumping between PCM and MQA.


----------



## musicday

shinbojan said:


> Got my device yesterday and as I don't have an iphone adapter, I am using it connected to the laptop and having some issue with it.
> There is crackling sound that is really irritating me. Besides that, when listening to MQA on Tidal sound gets cut off for a split second every minute or so (checked Task Manager, cpu and memory are not too high).
> I've tried several different usb ports, both issues are happening. I've also updated firmware to the latest version.
> 
> One more thing I've noticed...if the screen is turned on, it keeps jumping between PCM and MQA.


What operating system on computer so you use? If you are on windows 7 you need to be in UAC 1 mode.


----------



## shinbojan (Feb 10, 2021)

musicday said:


> What operating system on computer so you use? If you are on windows 7 you need to be in UAC 1 mode.



Windows 10.
Using Windows Tidal app.


----------



## musicday

shinbojan said:


> Windows 10.


Weird as that should work without problems.
Can you try on a different computer?


----------



## shinbojan

musicday said:


> Weird as that should work without problems.
> Can you try on a different computer?



Ok, tried it on my desktop machine and both issues are solved.
However, I've bought this to get better SQ from my latop (using Schiit stick with my desktop) .


----------



## musicday

shinbojan said:


> Ok, tried it on my desktop machine and both issues are solved.
> However, I've bought this to get better SQ from my latop (using Schiit stick with my desktop) .


Then there must be something wrong with your USB ports on the other computer.
Can you uninstall and install again the drivers and see if the problem still persists?


----------



## shinbojan

musicday said:


> Then there must be something wrong with your USB ports on the other computer.
> Can you uninstall and install again the drivers and see if the problem still persists?



I've reinstalled drivers, same issues.
I've tried 3 different usb ports (2 on my laptop, one one the monitor that is powered up via hub), even tried usb-C - same result.


----------



## musicday

Since your S1 works fine on different computer, then your other pc is the problem not the dongle.


----------



## shinbojan (Feb 10, 2021)

I get that, I am just trying to figure out what could be causing this...is this a power related issue or maybe a software issue?
It behaves exactly like in the video posted by @Sluggist :  https://streamable.com/7os79u .

There is no crackling if I connect the device in UAC1 mode. MQA won't work in that mode.
But I can live with that and only use MQA when I connect it to my desktop or iphone (after I get the adapter).

@waveSounds I've disabled those settings.


----------



## waveSounds

@shinbojan Have you tried checking USB setting underneath Settings > Power and Sleep > Additional power settings > Change plan settings:






I don't really see this being the problem, but if the suspend settings is set to enabled it can sometimes cause weird interactions to occur with USB devices. Worth a shot.


----------



## bluestorm1992

shinbojan said:


> Got my device yesterday and as I don't have an iphone adapter, I am using it connected to the laptop and having some issue with it.
> There is crackling sound that is really irritating me. Besides that, when listening to MQA on Tidal sound gets cut off for a split second every minute or so (checked Task Manager, cpu and memory are not too high).
> I've tried several different usb ports, both issues are happening. I've also updated firmware to the latest version.
> 
> One more thing I've noticed...if the screen is turned on, it keeps jumping between PCM and MQA.


Is the latest 1.1.10? I have had the same issue with the .09 version. Further upgrading fixes this.


----------



## shinbojan (Feb 10, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> Is the latest 1.1.10? I have had the same issue with the .09 version. Further upgrading fixes this.



Is there .09? I've upgraded to 1.0.0.8 and then to 1.0.0.10.
There was no folder for 1.0.0.9, but it was mentioned in the readme file.
When I connect the device, it shows 1.0.0.10 as version.
This is how the archive looks:



Spoiler


----------



## musicday

shinbojan said:


> Is there .09? I've upgraded to 1.0.0.8 and then to 1.0.0.10.
> There was no folder for 1.0.0.9, but it was mentioned in the readme file.
> When I connect the device, it shows 1.0.0.10 as version.
> This is how the archive looks:
> ...


Just stopped by to ask if you have managed to find out what was wrong with your S1?
I really like mine.


----------



## bluestorm1992

shinbojan said:


> Is there .09? I've upgraded to 1.0.0.8 and then to 1.0.0.10.
> There was no folder for 1.0.0.9, but it was mentioned in the readme file.
> When I connect the device, it shows 1.0.0.10 as version.
> This is how the archive looks:
> ...


I think the version 10 is intended to replace version 9. Hmm then this seems to be a real problem. Have you tried a different source (like different PC/tablet)?


----------



## shinbojan (Feb 10, 2021)

bluestorm1992 said:


> I think the version 10 is intended to replace version 9. Hmm then this seems to be a real problem. Have you tried a different source (like different PC/tablet)?



I've tried it on my desktop machine and it was working without any issues.
It only works correctly on my laptop if I use UAC1 (no MQA, but I can live with that).


----------



## runssical

leaky74 said:


> Yeah, I was thinking of picking up an iPod touch as I mainly use Amazon for streaming now



Buy a used LG V20 instead


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Does the PAW S1 have a Line Out Mode / Option?


----------



## musicday

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Does the PAW S1 have a Line Out Mode / Option?


No.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Does anyone happen to own both the Lotoo PAW S1 and the Qudelix-5K? I'm curious how they compare_ in terms of sound._


----------



## chaotic_angel

TooPoorForHiFi said:


> Does anyone happen to own both the Lotoo PAW S1 and the Qudelix-5K? I'm curious how they compare_ in terms of sound._



Clarity, fluidity, dynamics = S1
Warm , flexibility of EQ = Q5K

your choice


----------



## hakunamakaka

Strange as for me S1 was definitely warmer than Q5k. Personally these were in different league and if PEQ is not a must have than S1 is a clear winner


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

chaotic_angel said:


> at 1.0.0.10 using with ROON windows, so the UAC1 needs to be activated, I found that the the S1 is not detecting MQA from ROON, any idea what is wrong?


Heu. Did u get it to work? Wonder of buying the S1 myself. Im making a Roon system with my IEMs


----------



## doctorjuggles

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Heu. Did u get it to work? Wonder of buying the S1 myself. Im making a Roon system with my IEMs


My S1 is working fine with Roon for MQA. Just make sure you select "decoder and renderer" on the device settings in Roon and it should play along nicely


----------



## shinbojan

I've bought powered external hub and that solved all my laptop related issues.
As for the device itself, I quite like it, but I did not have time to do a/b tests against iphone and Schiit uber stack...planning to do them with both my iems and Fidelio X2.


----------



## musicday

This is how I use my S1 and I am happy with it.


----------



## sebek

quique77 said:


> Hi! I would like to know if there is much different regarding sound quality with the Dragonfly Cobalt. I have the DF but the Lotto and its balanced output catch my attention. Thanks a lot for the help!


I have Chord Mojo and Dragonfly Cobalt, I had FiiO BTR5 and my friend got Lotoo Paw S1.

For me:

1. Mojo
2. DFC
-
-
3. S1
4. BTR5

The first two seem to me to be in a different league.

S1 I like it a bit more than BTR5 in USB DAC mode, using both balanced output.

S1 may be one of the best devices in the $ 100-200 range but it can't beat DFC.

My opinion


----------



## waveSounds

I think when it comes to dongle DACs such as the DFC, E1DA, S1 et al, there's quite a bit more to the decision process than simply subjective sound quality (for some people, anyway).

Here's a post I made in the 846 thread a little while back:



> While they're both dongle(y) DAC things their feature sets are different enough that it could just come down to what you're looking for from one of these devices. The S1 has selectable EQ and ATE presets, high or low gain adjustment, hardware volume buttons, an OLED display (albeit tiny), and both 3.5 and 4.4mm outputs, whilst also not needing a USB x to USB A adapter - although with small size of AudioQuest's own adapter (dragon tail?) this last point is somewhat moot. In one review I found this line " AQ recommends using headphones with an impedance no lower than 16Ω." but then I've seen a quite a few 846 owners who use the Cobalt and love the combination.
> 
> This might all seem very one-sided in favour of the S1, but the Cobalt can act as a line-out whereas the S1 can't (or not a true line-out functionality anyway), it also has MQA decoding baked in whereas we're still waiting on a firmware update from Lotoo for MQA on the S1 - and the wait has been quite some time, so it could be imminent, or it could be... a long way off. Another potential issue you might find with the S1 is that when using bit-perfect such as with UAPP, you can only control the volume from the S1 itself and not from the phone. I'll have to double check, but I think this is also the case when using it with a Windows machine. Volume adjustment only via the hardware buttons. Depending on your use case, that might be a source of frustration.
> 
> I don't think you can go wrong with either!


----------



## FooFighter (Feb 26, 2021)

ActuallySparky said:


> I don't know the OI, but it pairs wonderfully with the Andromeda Gold. Inky black background, nice driving power (when powered by a 2.1amp+ port)


Hi,
Coming from DX220 Max and just sending back A&K SR25 I am looking into a Paw S1 paired with my iPhone 11 Pro and Andro Gold with a balanced cable.
I am looking into energetic tuning and keeping the Gold Bass slam listening to EDM, Metal, Rock.
1. Will that be a good match e.g. compared to DCF - I saw this comparison yet:
Lotoo PAW S1 - Designed for HIFI on the go with Lotoo PAW quality and the first USB DAC-AMP with dual 3.5mm & 4.4mm output
2. Anyone knows the output impedance of S1 on 4,4mm?
3. Tidal MQA unfolding yet supported or still pending?
4. I yet own the Qudelix 5k, will S1 or DCF be a clear step up regarding SQ or just a side-grade? I am using it for watching TV connected to my Sony soundbar over LDAC currently...
Thx!


----------



## captainmuffins

Quick Look at the PAW S1

Just saw a video on the PAW S1. I think it's quite comprehensive!


----------



## Kal El

FooFighter said:


> Hi,
> Coming from DX220 Max and just sending back A&K SR25 I am looking into a Paw S1 paired with my iPhone 11 Pro and Andro Gold with a balanced cable.
> I am looking into energetic tuning and keeping the Gold Bass slam listening to EDM, Metal, Rock.
> 1. Will that be a good match e.g. compared to DCF - I saw this comparison yet:
> ...



Hi! I've just updated the firmware of my Lotoo Paw S1 and now it unfolds 4x MQA. The difference is clearly adubile from my laptop. 
I think that the S1 works at its full potential with laptop because sometimes smartphones does not give it full power (or maybe it is just my feeling). About interferences, they are annoying only if you keep it very close to the smartphone and stream music from mobile network. I have no issues with wifi, or playing my flac albums offline.
I don't have here with me a DFC to do an A/B comparison but I tried it and I like a lot more my Paw S1, plus I use it with 4.4mm cable.
My fav setup atm is Lotoo Paw S1 + 4.4mm Fearless cable + Shuoer EJ07. It rocks.
I also have Fiio BTR5 that is very practical when I go out for a walk and it has good sq bluetooth with LDAC (connected to my smartphone or my Sony DAP) and very powerful 2.5mm output, but it needs to be charged.


----------



## musicday

S1 is very good, bit because of the competition from Luxury and Precision W2, Lotoo has no choice but to come out with S2 dual DAC USB dongle with higher power output.
The technology is moving fast.


----------



## FooFighter

musicday said:


> S1 is very good, bit because of the competition from Luxury and Precision W2, Lotoo has no choice but to come out with S2 dual DAC USB dongle with higher power output.
> The technology is moving fast.


Hey, don't make me desire next product whereas I haven't yet tried current product 😜


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 1, 2021)

Even my Qudelix 5k yet has dual dac on balanced out, so I agree this seems to become standard.
Am curious how S1 will sound against Qudelix.
Qudelix can only play up to  24/96khz.
Though Qudelix has dual dac I am  expecting an SQ update with S1 hopefully...


----------



## Kal El

Dual dac doesn't necessarily mean "better" than single dac. Also, you should consider what you gonna plug in. If you use low impedance IEMs the S1 will be enough powerful. Otherwise, if you use power-hungry headphones you need more powerful dongle or portable dac/amp.
My Fiio BTR5 has more juice for example.


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 1, 2021)

Kal El said:


> Dual dac doesn't necessarily mean "better" than single dac. Also, you should consider what you gonna plug in. If you use low impedance IEMs the S1 will be enough powerful. Otherwise, if you use power-hungry headphones you need more powerful dongle or portable dac/amp.
> My Fiio BTR5 has more juice for example.


Main use case will be Andromeda Gold.
For interest I will also try my 24 Ohm Denon Ah D9200.
Both are running balanced.


----------



## jburks725

FooFighter said:


> Main use case will be Andromeda Gold.
> For interest I will also try my 24 Ohm Denon Ah D9200.
> Both are running balanced.


My Andro Golds sound very good with the S1 with my Penon Leo Plus balanced cables, but I find it's even more sensitive to EMI with the balanced cable. If you're careful about avoid sources of interference, it's great.


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 1, 2021)

jburks725 said:


> My Andro Golds sound very good with the S1 with my Penon Leo Plus balanced cables, but I find it's even more sensitive to EMI with the balanced cable. If you're careful about avoid sources of interference, it's great.


Interesting with EMI 
Never had EMI issues with my 
balanced cable with e.g Qudelix attached streaming through WLAN and answering calls with built-in microphone.
S1 will arrive tomorrow. Will post my impressions some time this week


----------



## Ales R

iPhone 12Pro --> Paw S1 --> Penon OS849 4.4 balanced --> CA Solaris 2020 --------> super huuuuge EMI 😏

Waiting for L&P W2 with hope...


----------



## FooFighter

Hmmm wondering what is the weak point in the chain for EMI if you say it's happening mostly in balanced operation.
Is it the cable, the higher voltage, the missing isolation of the S1 balanced port?
But will need to collect my own experience first before I am speculating


----------



## musicday

Ales R said:


> iPhone 12Pro --> Paw S1 --> Penon OS849 4.4 balanced --> CA Solaris 2020 --------> super huuuuge EMI 😏
> 
> Waiting for L&P W2 with hope...


You can order the W2 now


----------



## Ales R (Mar 1, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Hmmm wondering what is the weak point in the chain for EMI if you say it's happening mostly in balanced operation.
> Is it the cable, the higher voltage, the missing isolation of the S1 balanced port?
> But will need to collect my own experience first before I am speculating


I am using one of the most sensitive IEMs out there which picks up hissing with every source. Then, I switched from Campfire stock cable which has plastic plug/connector housing to another cable with metal plug/connector housing to have a conductive antenna connecting S1 through its 4.4 BAL jack and to cable plug going to cable connector and metal shell of Solaris. That antenna will be picking up everything.  And 3rd, I am using iPhone 12 Pro which everybody finds as the biggest source of EMI interference...


musicday said:


> You can order the W2 now


Where when I am not in China? Thanks


----------



## musicday

Ales R said:


> I am using one of the most sensitive IEMs out there which picks up hissing with every source. Then, I switched from Campfire stock cable which has plastic plug/connector housing to another cable with metal plug/connector housing to have a conductive antenna connecting S1 through its 4.4 BAL jack and to cable plug going to cable connector and metal shell of Solaris. That antenna will be picking up everything.  And 3rd, I am using iPhone 12 Pro which everybody finds as the biggest source of EMI interference...
> 
> Where when I am not in China? Thanks


Ali will send it to your home.


----------



## FooFighter

musicday said:


> Ali will send it to your home.


----------



## twister6

Ales R said:


> iPhone 12Pro --> Paw S1 --> Penon OS849 4.4 balanced --> CA Solaris 2020 --------> super huuuuge EMI 😏
> 
> Waiting for L&P W2 with hope...



Quite a few people reported already, between comments I read here and a number of my readers pinging me in private, iPhone 12Pro/MAX is a culprit of the EMI problem.  They switch to iPhone 8 or android phone, and problem goes away or EMI is a lot less noticeable.  Of course, not an excuse since in theory you want usb dac/amp to be universal with every source.  I assume when you try it with your laptop, you don't hear the same EMI level?  or older iPhones or other Android phones?


----------



## FooFighter

I will try with my IPhone11Pro once I got S1 tomorrow...


----------



## musicday

US $209.00  5%OFF | W1 W2 decoding ear line DAC Apple Android phone hifi fever tpyec turn 4.4 3.5 small tail
https://a.aliexpress.com/_vSqthn


----------



## FooFighter

musicday said:


> US $209.00  5%OFF | W1 W2 decoding ear line DAC Apple Android phone hifi fever tpyec turn 4.4 3.5 small tail
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_vSqthn


My Chinese language skill is bad 😉
In specs it seems to be W1 and not W2?


----------



## musicday

FooFighter said:


> My Chinese language skill is bad 😉
> In specs it seems to be W1 and not W2?


Yes, but if you order W2 you get W2.


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 1, 2021)

musicday said:


> Yes, but if you order W2 you get W2.


OK, now I found it, thx.
Guess I will first try S1 though as it is arriving tomorrow and consider W2 if s1 turns out to show issues with my setup.
Import fee is incredibly high for Germany.
W2: 300 Eur
Fast delivery:32 
Sum: 332 Eur 

Taxes: + 118 Eur!

Guess I will first wait for some resellers in Europe...


----------



## jsmiller58 (Mar 1, 2021)

twister6 said:


> Quite a few people reported already, between comments I read here and a number of my readers pinging me in private, iPhone 12Pro/MAX is a culprit of the EMI problem.  They switch to iPhone 8 or android phone, and problem goes away or EMI is a lot less noticeable.  Of course, not an excuse since in theory you want usb dac/amp to be universal with every source.  I assume when you try it with your laptop, you don't hear the same EMI level?  or older iPhones or other Android phones?


I have an LG v30 and almost all of my dongles have static when data traffic goes over the cellular connection, though never WiFi.  I think most of these devices are susceptible, either due to poor internal shielding or the usb cable itself acting as an antenna picking up the LTE/4G signal.  I may need to attach the S1 to my iPad and then put my phone next to the S1 with the phone’s WiFi turned off to see if the S1 picks up interference while I do data transfers on the phone...  Up to now, I haven’t found a happy solution with a dongle if I am running cellular data...


----------



## jsmiller58

FooFighter said:


> OK, now I found it, thx.
> Guess I will first try S1 though as it is arriving tomorrow and consider W2 if s1 turns out to show issues with my setup.
> Import fee is incredibly high for Germany.
> W2: 300 Eur
> ...


Wow.  Nearly 40% taxes and fees?  That’s astonishing.  How does it help to have a seller in Europe for the W2? Wouldn’t they need to pay the taxes anyway?  You may save some on shipping, but wow, 118 Euro cost on a 300 Euro item...


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 1, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> Wow.  Nearly 40% taxes and fees?  That’s astonishing.  How does it help to have a seller in Europe for the W2? Wouldn’t they need to pay the taxes anyway?  You may save some on shipping, but wow, 118 Euro cost on a 300 Euro item...


Of course it can happen that a Europe reseller will offer it for 400 Eur anyway 🙄
I will give the S1 a chance first...
It costed me half of the above mentioned price and I guess it won't sound only half as good as M2 😉

...Though the question arises if pairing a 1400 Eur IEM with a 200 Eur DAC is sufficient 😉
Coming from DX 220 Max my SQ expectation is high but for on-the-go listening maybe not required as much...
Let's see...


----------



## Kal El

I just took a couple of pictures of my setup. I feel that the Fearless cable helps me a bit with interferences (or maybe I just convinced myself that a $135 cable was worth it 😝)
I rather use the S1 with my laptop or LG G8S or Sony NW-A105, steaming from Tidal via WiFi because when I go out for a walk I prefer to use the Fiio BTR5.
The only thing that I don't like is the sound difference between laptop and smartphone/dap, from laptop the S1 sounds with more body and more energy.
Do you feel the same?


----------



## FooFighter

Kal El said:


> I just took a couple of pictures of my setup. I feel that the Fearless cable helps me a bit with interferences (or maybe I just convinced myself that a $135 cable was worth it 😝)
> I rather use the S1 with my laptop or LG G8S or Sony NW-A105, steaming from Tidal via WiFi because when I go out for a walk I prefer to use the Fiio BTR5.
> The only thing that I don't like is the sound difference between laptop and smartphone/dap, from laptop the S1 sounds with more body and more energy.
> Do you feel the same?


at least it is looking very nice!

As the device is draining its power directly from its source and not relying on batteries I can imagine that it plays a role...
Anyone tried yet to attach a dual dongle with additional battery power?

I will try this week after I got my S1 and let you know...


----------



## calpiyuki

I love my s1 with a8000. Need more bass for pop music? Turn on the Movie ate. Want raw detail? No ate.


----------



## Rcuello56

Hi, any experience with mobile+battery jacket + S1? Will that config work? Does it help with the mobile energy provisionto S1? Does it worth?


----------



## jsmiller58 (Mar 1, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> I have an LG v30 and almost all of my dongles have static when data traffic goes over the cellular connection, though never WiFi.  I think most of these devices are susceptible, either due to poor internal shielding or the usb cable itself acting as an antenna picking up the LTE/4G signal.  I may need to attach the S1 to my iPad and then put my phone next to the S1 with the phone’s WiFi turned off to see if the S1 picks up interference while I do data transfers on the phone...  Up to now, I haven’t found a happy solution with a dongle if I am running cellular data...


So ran a simple experiment this evening... 

Earphones - IMR Halcyon, balanced cable
Source - R6 Pro

Experiment:  Connected a number of USB dongle DAC/Amps to the R6 Pro and then placed my LG v30 with WiFi disabled and surfing to different head-fi pages with LTE/4G connectivity.  Ran the phone over just the audio cable, over the dongle, and over the USB cable connecting the dongle to the phone.

To normalize things I used a 2.5mm balanced to 3.5mm SE connector for all of the dongles except where the dongle only had a 2.5mm jack.

No EMI detected:
- Hidizs S9
- Hidizs S8
- Helm Bolt DAC

EMI detected.  But only when the phone was right next to the dongle, not when over cables
- Lotoo S1
- Minidsp Il-DSP
- E1DA 9038s gen2 (only has 2.5mm balanced, so did not use adapter)

On the S1 it seems to me that the interference was worst when the phone was closer to the headphone jack itself, less as the phone moved away from the headphone jack.

I hope this helps.


----------



## sulfuriq

Just bought Lotoo PAW S1 as my backup since my iFi HIP DAC now is on RMA. This dongle is ridiculously good SQ and powered well for both of my 1more H1707 and new Hifiman HE400SE. But it baffles me when i'm using UAPP, as I'm playing in bit-perfect mode, Lotoo shows the resolution of 32bits even for all hi-res files I've played from UAPP. But when I'm using Sony Music Center Player App, the Lotoo will show the correct resolution same with the file. 

This with UAPP




This one using Sony Music Center app


----------



## FooFighter

sulfuriq said:


> Just bought Lotoo PAW S1 as my backup since my iFi HIP DAC now is on RMA. This dongle is ridiculously good SQ and powered well for both of my 1more H1707 and new Hifiman HE400SE. But it baffles me when i'm using UAPP, as I'm playing in bit-perfect mode, Lotoo shows the resolution of 32bits even for all hi-res files I've played from UAPP. But when I'm using Sony Music Center Player App, the Lotoo will show the correct resolution same with the file.
> 
> This with UAPP
> 
> ...


Guess you have yet checked the UApp settings and also bought the MQA in-App package?
My S1 is delayed and will hopefully arrive on Friday


----------



## sulfuriq

FooFighter said:


> Guess you have yet checked the UApp settings and also bought the MQA in-App package?
> My S1 is delayed and will hopefully arrive on Friday


Check the setting, nothing out of ordinary. Using bit-perfect, yes this UAPP include with MQA while still showing 32 bits.


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 3, 2021)

Cause there is some upsample to highest player bit rate option in UApp, though in bit perfect mode it should all be off and only native stream be forwarded.

Your examples are MQA files, right?

I have a 2-sided view of UApp: on one hand it sounds more open, more revealing on both my Dx220 max and the yet returned DX300 (compared to Tidal native app), on the other hand it couldn't unfold up to maximum MQA sample rates of these players.
For streaming non-MQA flacs I still think it's top notch


----------



## sulfuriq

FooFighter said:


> Cause there is some upsample to highest player bit rate option in UApp, though in bit perfect mode it should all be off and only native stream be forwarded.
> 
> Your examples are MQA files, right?
> 
> ...


I think because it is using it's own UAPP hi-res driver, similar like ASIO on PC, bypassing Android own hi-res chip driver. If you don't closed UAPP properly, it's driver will not be  released and you can't play any streaming app through the dac/amp. You can play Tidal directly from UAPP so you can use it's own driver. And other streaming services like JazzRadio.com by using Other Radio Stations setting. The Sting Songs is a hi-res audio, 24bit 44.1kHz while the other one is MQA downloaded file. Probably they need to update their app to sync accordingly with PAW S1. You have to use DoP if you planning to use DSD files. But the SQ is deliciously good.


----------



## musikverein

I am wondering what this Lotoo PAW S1 does, on many levels.
First I like the Sweet and None settings the most, on my IEMs and as source into headphones. It is truely musical, euphonic and exceptionally well tuned. (Black background, Harmann-like with slightly soft edges) Clearly better than DFR and at eye level with DFC. On the 4,4 jack balanced even superior. Kudos, Lotoo!

Though I am wondering why my S1 does seemingly upsample my data/music from my iPhone to 192/32 and from my Windows 10 laptop to 96/24 as it says so on the display.
Is this its normal behavior or do I have a setting issue with my firmware? And, can it play bit perfect as well and how?


----------



## KowalskiFUT

Ordered S1, to use with IE800, and JH Angie. Anyone tried it with these IEMs? 
Currently using DFR, but will sell it. From everything I read, S1 is significant upgrade, and I always drooled over Lotoo DAPs, so this also has sentimental value.


----------



## russsellsthings

Hey everyone!

Happy UAPP and Lotoo Paw S1 user but tonight it started crashing on me for some unknown reason. The native Tidal app works but UAPP playing Tidal caused the whole phone to freeze. I uninstalled UAPP and tried to reinstall and now apparently my device  (Google Pixel 4a) is no longer supported??? I attached a screencap. Just wondering if anyone has had this issue? Are there any other apps that can handle Tidal MQA I case I am SOL for UAPP?


----------



## FooFighter

Finally S1 arrived 
Will post some impressions with Andro Gold in  some time


----------



## musicday

Don't forget to buy the awesome cheap silicone case to protect it.


----------



## FooFighter

musicday said:


> Don't forget to buy the awesome cheap silicone case to protect it.


this one? https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001212280166.html


----------



## musicday

Yes, or you can buy it from eBay.


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 5, 2021)

First impression: awesome SQ on my Andro Golds, no comparison to Qudelix 5k.
The EQ settings are really nice to play around and able to improve synergy with your IEM.
So below impression applies for Andro Gold but can be different with other IEMs.
Best for me so far is "sweet" for more warm&juicy sound or "dental" for a little more stage and dryness (going into direction of DX Max tuning) setting, NearField, Farfield, Headphone are also nice, if I want to really kick it, then "Rock" but mostly that's a bit much 
Volume significantly louder on my MacBook Pro 2018 than on my Iphone11Pro.

Really great dongle, I don't regret buying it


----------



## FooFighter

musicday said:


> Yes, or you can buy it from eBay.


I did, delivery 23th of April, hopefully it won't get scratched until then


----------



## musicday

FooFighter said:


> I did, delivery 23th of April, hopefully it won't get scratched until then


Keep it in a little baby sock if you have one laying around.


----------



## sulfuriq

russsellsthings said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> Happy UAPP and Lotoo Paw S1 user but tonight it started crashing on me for some unknown reason. The native Tidal app works but UAPP playing Tidal caused the whole phone to freeze. I uninstalled UAPP and tried to reinstall and now apparently my device  (Google Pixel 4a) is no longer supported??? I attached a screencap. Just wondering if anyone has had this issue? Are there any other apps that can handle Tidal MQA I case I am SOL for UAPP?


Better send an e-mail to the developer regarding the matters. Some said it had some issue with Google Music (now has been discontinued), you can refer here
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/usb...usb-audio-support-for-android.704065/page-282


----------



## shinbojan (Mar 5, 2021)

Got my lightning to usb-c adapter and I can finally use this with my iPhone/iPad.
I've mostly been using the high gain (20-25 volume for iems, 50 for Fidelio X2) and without EQ. Should I be using the low gain instead?


----------



## sulfuriq

FooFighter said:


> First impression: awesome SQ on my Andro Golds, no comparison to Qudelix 5k.
> The EQ settings are really nice to play around.
> Best for me so far is "sweet" for my warm&juicy sound or "dental" for a little more stage and dryness (going into direction of DX Max tuning)  setting, NearField, Farfield, Headphone are also nice, if I want to really kick it, then "Rock" but mostly that's a bit much
> Volume significantly louder on my MacBook Pro 2018 than on my Iphone11Pro.
> ...


It much depends on the power it received. Mine is louder on OnePlus 7T (USB-C) compare to Samsung Note 3 (USB-micro OTG). Still waiting for my Balanced 4.4 mm Hifiman HE400SE cable to arrive. Better lower the volume first before change the gain from LOW to HIGH because it's pretty loud.


----------



## Kal El

shinbojan said:


> Got my lightning to usb-c adapter and I can finally use this with my iphone.
> I've mostly been using the high gain (20-25 volume for iems, 50 for Fidelio X2) and without EQ. Should I be using the low gain instead?


I always prefer low gain if possible because some devices distort the sound a bit in high gain mode.
I always use my S1 with Shuoer EJ07 at 50 volume in low gain mode without EQ.


----------



## blackwhit

hifiman he400i 2020 and I use high gain, volume 80-90 depends on song... wondering what will change after my balanced cable arrives


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 5, 2021)

sorry if this was mentioned maybe often: fw update on MacOS not possible?
how can I check current fw?

Edit: I downloaded the firmware to a Windows PC and uploaded the file "Paw-S1.COE" to the root-dir of S1.
Manual says "wait till"Successful" shown on the screen of the PAW S1.
But screen is showing only "Waiting"....


----------



## twister6

FooFighter said:


> sorry if this was mentioned maybe often: fw update on MacOS not possible?
> how can I check current fw?



From PAW S1 fw upgrade instructions:

1. Hold "Fn" key on PAW S1 and connect it to a PC/MAC.
2. Copy the file "PAW-S1.COE" to the root of the new loaded removable disk.
3. Wait till "Successful" shown on the screen of PAW S1.
4. Reconnect the usb cable to use the new firmware.

They mention PC/MAC so upgrade is compatible with both OS.  And when you hold FN key and connect to your PC/MAC, it will display on a screen current fw version.

The latest fw and user manuals are all here on Lotoo's website.


----------



## FooFighter

twister6 said:


> From PAW S1 fw upgrade instructions:
> 
> 1. Hold "Fn" key on PAW S1 and connect it to a PC/MAC.
> 2. Copy the file "PAW-S1.COE" to the root of the new loaded removable disk.
> ...


thx, that's the link I have been using:
http://download.lotoo.cn/download/PAWS1_AP_1.0.0.8&1.0.0.10.zip

I repeated the steps on MAcOS now
I copied the "PAW-S1.COE" to the root of the new loaded removable disk.
S1-screen still is saying "Waiting".


----------



## povidlo

FooFighter said:


> thx, that's the link I have been using:
> http://download.lotoo.cn/download/PAWS1_AP_1.0.0.8&1.0.0.10.zip
> 
> I repeated the steps on MAcOS now
> ...


Are you doing firmware update in sequence? 1.0.08 first ?


----------



## FooFighter

povidlo said:


> Are you doing firmware update in sequence? 1.0.08 first ?


how can I?
it's one zip file if u follow my link....


----------



## sulfuriq (Mar 5, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> thx, that's the link I have been using:
> http://download.lotoo.cn/download/PAWS1_AP_1.0.0.8&1.0.0.10.zip
> 
> I repeated the steps on MAcOS now
> ...


Try to update firmware for version 1.0.0.8 first, disconnect then 1.0.0.10. Same procedure (Alas, there is no version 1.0.0.9 though). There should have 2 version in that zip file. I've attached the firmware.

Notice£ºTo support MQA, Please update 1.0.0.8 then 1.0.0.9 in sequence

1.0.0.8
Update Driver for MQA Support

1.0.0.9
MQA Supported

1.0.0.10
The known compatibility problem is solved.


----------



## FooFighter

sulfuriq said:


> Try to update firmware for version 1.0.0.8 first, disconnect then 1.0.0.10. Same procedure (Alas, there is no version 1.0.0.9 though)
> 
> Notice£ºTo support MQA, Please update 1.0.0.8 then 1.0.0.9 in sequence
> 
> ...


sorry guys, it was my mistake, due to the chrome blocking errors I have missed the fact that in fact no new firmware file was uploaded but just an old one to my hard disk.
I downloaded now correct zip and everything is working fine.
Thx for your patience!


----------



## twister6

Correct, have to do the upgrade in sequence.  Originally there was 1.0.0.8 and 1.0.0.9.  But .9 was quickly updated, thus you have 1.0.0.8 and 1.0.0.10


----------



## sulfuriq

FooFighter said:


> sorry guys, it was my mistake, due to the chrome blocking errors I have missed the fact that in fact no new firmware file was uploaded but just an old one to my hard disk.
> I downloaded now correct zip and everything is working fine.
> Thx for your patience!


No worries, that what Brother in Arms for hahaha. Damn, this Lotoo sounds so good on my 1more H1707.


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 5, 2021)

With latest firmware update and playing Tidal master from IPhone or IPad S1 is showing this (44khz - that's supposed to be 88khz I guess /32 bits - that's supposed to be 24 I guess)
Is that correct?
Shouldn't the unfolded rate be displayed?

SQ is sublime though 😃


----------



## Kal El

FooFighter said:


> With latest firmware update and playing Tidal master from IPhone or IPad S1 is showing this (44khz - that's supposed to be 88khz I guess /32 bits - that's supposed to be 24 I guess)
> Is that correct?
> Shouldn't the unfolded rate be displayed?






Hope it will be useful.


----------



## FooFighter

Kal El said:


> Hope it will be useful.


Yep, I saw that but also in these examples we can see the unfolded bit rates in the screenshots 
I think S1 is unfolding correctly (shown with OFS symbol) but not correctly displaying bitrates 
I saw that here in earlier posts too before...


----------



## sulfuriq

FooFighter said:


> With latest firmware update and playing Tidal master from IPhone or IPad S1 is showing this (44khz - that's supposed to be 88khz I guess /32 bits - that's supposed to be 24 I guess)
> Is that correct?
> Shouldn't the unfolded rate be displayed?
> 
> SQ is sublime though 😃


Not sure about MQA though but here is the MQA manual, not that I understand it at all.


----------



## dgjl

russsellsthings said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> Happy UAPP and Lotoo Paw S1 user but tonight it started crashing on me for some unknown reason. The native Tidal app works but UAPP playing Tidal caused the whole phone to freeze. I uninstalled UAPP and tried to reinstall and now apparently my device  (Google Pixel 4a) is no longer supported??? I attached a screencap. Just wondering if anyone has had this issue? Are there any other apps that can handle Tidal MQA I case I am SOL for UAPP?


Same issue here. The uapp dev said the following:

The latest firmware update of the Pixel 4 series contains a kernel bug that will restart your phone when an app tries to play through USB audio using its own driver. This is not exclusive to our app, but happens too other apps featuring their own driver as well. We reported it to our contact at Google and they made an internal bug report of it. I do not
know the further state and when they will solve the issue. Again, this
is not something we can fix ourselves. Because of these reasons we
excluded the 4 series from the compatible devices list so people with
those devices cannot accidentally buy it anymore until the problem gets
resolved.

To use the Android USB audio driver, please disable the option 'Use USB
DAC' in the app's USB audio tweaks. To force decoding of MQA with the
Android driver, you can select the 'HiRes audio driver' in the first
option in the app's settings, but this will give lower quality than with
our own driver.


----------



## alal

Hi, finally got my lotoo PAW S1 today. First impression, is sounds great!

Got a query though, do I need UAPP to take advantage of HiRes and MQA in Tidal when using my android phone? What about on the computer?
Thanks!


----------



## jsmiller58

alal said:


> Hi, finally got my lotoo PAW S1 today. First impression, is sounds great!
> 
> Got a query though, do I need UAPP to take advantage of HiRes and MQA in Tidal when using my android phone? What about on the computer?
> Thanks!


MQA on the S1 with an Android phone requires UAPP, as far as I know.  For example if I use an MQA enabled dongle and try playing with Tidal app the dongle does not unfold MQA.  UAPP, with the optional MQA plug in, does.

Don‘t know about PCs, though.


----------



## Bondipix

blackwhit said:


> hifiman he400i 2020 and I use high gain, volume 80-90 depends on song... wondering what will change after my balanced cable arrives


It’s sounds heaps better and less volume required.


----------



## FooFighter

Some explanations about MQA modes I found in some other DAC manual:

MQA option
  • Product is receiving a bit perfect MQA stream
• Product performs full MQA decoding
• Product displays “MQA”
• “MQA” indicates that the product is decoding and playing an MQA stream or file, and denotes provenance to ensure that the sound is identical to that of the source material.

MQA Studio
• Product is receiving a bit perfect MQA stream
• Product performs full MQA decoding
• Product displays “MQA Studio”
• “MQA Studio” indicates it is playing an MQA Studio file, which has either been approved in the studio by the artist/producer or has been verified by the copyright owner.

 MQA Rendering "OFS"
 • Product is receiving a decoded stream from another Decoder e.g. the Tidal application, or the digital output of an MQA enabled network streamer
• Product performs MQA rendering which means it can connect to an MQA Core signal and complete the final unfold of an MQA file. This product will include ‘stream lock’ but is not able to decode an MQA stream or authenticate it.
• “OFS” confirms that the product is receiving an MQA stream or file. This delivers the final unfold of the MQA file.


----------



## FooFighter

FooFighter said:


> Some explanations about MQA modes I found in some other DAC manual:
> 
> MQA option
> • Product is receiving a bit perfect MQA stream
> ...


What do you guys think about OFS?
Does it mean Tidal app is doing unfold or Tidal app playing MQA but S1 cannot unfold?


----------



## alal

Can you help? What am I doing wrong? UAPP is showing USB DAC 44.1kHz only. I have bought the MQA plug in.


----------



## russsellsthings

dgjl said:


> Same issue here. The uapp dev said the following:
> 
> The latest firmware update of the Pixel 4 series contains a kernel bug that will restart your phone when an app tries to play through USB audio using its own driver. This is not exclusive to our app, but happens too other apps featuring their own driver as well. We reported it to our contact at Google and they made an internal bug report of it. I do not
> know the further state and when they will solve the issue. Again, this
> ...


Thanks for this! The dev replied to me as well with the same thing. Sadly, using UAPP in the fashion they describe above doesn't allow any MQA rendering (the Lotoo does't show MQA x4 on the screen). I guess Pixel 4 users will have to wait for a software update!

If anyone else is in the same boat and unable to reinstall UAPP as it is no longer in the Google Play App store (not visible if you are using the Pixel 4), the dev can email you the actual app directly so you can reinstall it. 

Russ


----------



## FooFighter

I tested Audirvana on MacOS playing Tidal MQA on S1 and though S1 is displaying 24bit/44khz it seems unfold is done, so 88,2 kHz is shown as the applied bit rate


----------



## jsmiller58

alal said:


> Can you help? What am I doing wrong? UAPP is showing USB DAC 44.1kHz only. I have bought the MQA plug in.


Do you have Bit Perfect set in UAPP settings?


----------



## alal

jsmiller58 said:


> Do you have Bit Perfect set in UAPP settings?


It's set to whenever possible.


----------



## jsmiller58

alal said:


> It's set to whenever possible.


I just tried that song and get exactly the same result as you...  But, then I just remember that I have not loaded the MQA enabled FW yet!  Have you?


----------



## alal

jsmiller58 said:


> I just tried that song and get exactly the same result as you...  But, then I just remember that I have not loaded the MQA enabled FW yet!  Have you?


I did. S1 shows MQA X 4.


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 5, 2021)

alal said:


> I did. S1 shows MQA X 4.


I 2nd this, though I have to say UApp is working quite unstable on my old Motorola, Tidal app is far more stable, though I d like UApp SQ more 🙄
On my IPhone Tidal app is fine besides this strange OFS 4x message 
SQ is very good!


----------



## alal

Sorry for all the posts, now I am facing an issue were the MQA song pauses at the very beginning for 1sec and then it resumes automatically. Anyone with this same issue?


----------



## jsmiller58 (Mar 5, 2021)

alal said:


> Sorry for all the posts, now I am facing an issue were the MQA song pauses at the very beginning for 1sec and then it resumes automatically. Anyone with this same issue?


I actually also find MQA tracks to have a bit of a stutter when an MQA track follows a non-MQA track on my MQA enabled SMSL M500 DAC.  Once I upgrade the FW on my S1 I will check that out as well.


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 6, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> I actually also find MQA tracks to have a bit of a stutter when an MQA track follows a non-MQA track on my MQA enabled SMSL M500 DAC.  Once I upgrade the FW on my S1 I will check that out as well.


Same here especially with UApp!
It often stopped playing in UApp, respectively made app crash or stole priority when using Tidal app on same Android phone, all in all I don't recommend UApp at all currently with S1 after my experience with old Motorola phone...
On IPhone / IPad and Audirvana S1 is running the most smoothest so far...


----------



## sulfuriq

Other than UAPP, Sony Music Center app I think can play MQA without a problem because I tried with my downloaded MQA files, they played perfectly as it shows MQA/ 4X or MQA./X4 on the PAW S1, but not showing in the app like UAPP did. When you connect your S1 to Android and having both app (UAPP and Sony Music Center), make sure to clear the default so you can choose which app to use with PAW S1.


----------



## alal

sulfuriq said:


> Other than UAPP, Sony Music Center app I think can play MQA without a problem because I tried with my downloaded MQA files, they played perfectly as it shows MQA/ 4X or MQA./X4 on the PAW S1, but not showing in the app like UAPP did. When you connect your S1 to Android and having both app (UAPP and Sony Music Center), make sure to clear the default so you can choose which app to use with PAW S1.


Can you provide more details on clearing the default? Thanks.


----------



## alal

Adding a picture of UAPP and PAW S1. UAPP reports USB DAC @ 44.1kHZ / PAW S1 MQA. X4


----------



## FooFighter

alal said:


> Adding a picture of UAPP and PAW S1. UAPP reports USB DAC @ 44.1kHZ / PAW S1 MQA. X4


Look at the bit rate 
In your case it looks like S1 is showing full unfold to maximum bit rate but I don't believe 32 bit is true or S1 is doing upsampling which I don't believe 
Is operation stable in your case without stopping or crashing?


----------



## FooFighter

Anyone knowing a way to report the irregularities for bit rate display to Lotoo?


----------



## alal

FooFighter said:


> Look at the bit rate
> In your case it looks like S1 is showing full unfold to maximum bit rate but I don't believe 32 bit is true or S1 is doing upsampling which I don't believe
> Is operation stable in your case without stopping or crashing?


I read on some older post in this thread that UAPP fills the remaining bits with 0's and the reason PAW S1 shows 32bit.
Operation is stable, only issue I found is that at the starting of a song it freezes like for 1sec (also report by other users on some posts).
Othe than that it sounds amazing!


----------



## alal

FooFighter said:


> Anyone knowing a way to report the irregularities for bit rate display to Lotoo?


I only find these when using UAPP. Using Sony Music Player it shows the right bit rate.


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 6, 2021)

alal said:


> I only find these when using UAPP. Using Sony Music Player it shows the right bit rate.


Same irregularities with Tidal native app regarding bit rate display on all platforms android and ios
I will test local files tonight...


----------



## sulfuriq

alal said:


> Can you provide more details on clearing the default? Thanks.


If you are using Android' its in the Setting > Apps & Notifications. Then search for USB Audio Player Pro > App info > Advanced > Open by Default > Clear Defaults. This is only applicable if you set UAPP an Default Player every time you connected your DAC/AMP to your phone, that you unable to allow Music Center to access PAW-S1.


----------



## sulfuriq

I need to shorten this!!


----------



## FooFighter

sulfuriq said:


> I need to shorten this!!


Mobile phone has no USB-C port yet?


----------



## povidlo

sulfuriq said:


> I need to shorten this!!


https://www.ddhifi.com/productinfo/515662.html

_

_


----------



## sulfuriq

FooFighter said:


> Mobile phone has no USB-C port yet?


This is my main DAP Samsung Note 3 with Custom Android 10 with 10,000 mah battery pack, still loving it. Thanks* povidlo* for the heads up, this otg is hard to find luckily a local online shop has it.


----------



## sulfuriq

alal said:


> Hi, finally got my lotoo PAW S1 today. First impression, is sounds great!
> 
> Got a query though, do I need UAPP to take advantage of HiRes and MQA in Tidal when using my android phone? What about on the computer?
> Thanks!


For PC, Audirvana (expensive) can play MQA or you can download the Tidal own software itself. For hi-res audio including DSD, you can use Foobar2000 (free) but you have to install components to play DSD (free). I'm using Tunebrowser (free+paid which can play DSD without any add-on with top-notch interface) and foobar2000. If you want to bypass Windows Volume Mixer so the software can communicate directly to the DAC, you have to install ASIO or WASAPI to get the bit-perfect.


----------



## FooFighter

FooFighter said:


> What do you guys think about OFS?
> Does it mean Tidal app is doing unfold or Tidal app playing MQA but S1 cannot unfold?


Have googled a bit regarding MQA and IOS.
This article is an interesting entry point 
https://darko.audio/2019/03/the-inconvenient-truth-about-mqa-on-ios/

Looking at the displayed bit rate of S1 when playing Tidal it seems to me that Tidal app is doing the so called 1st unfold and forwarding the result to S1
My assumption: S1 isn't doing 2nd unfold...
Anyone in this forum knowing a Lotoo contact which can clarify this?


----------



## FooFighter

FooFighter said:


> Have googled a bit regarding MQA and IOS.
> This article is an interesting entry point
> https://darko.audio/2019/03/the-inconvenient-truth-about-mqa-on-ios/
> 
> ...


service@lotoo.cn
I will email them tonight...


----------



## GoldenTooth

Any one compare s1 to the new Hidizs s9?


----------



## FooFighter

GoldenTooth said:


> Any one compare s1 to the new Hidizs s9?


https://twister6.com/2020/10/12/in-a-snapshot-hidizs-s9-mini-usb-dac-amp/

Interesting device especially for that low price!
No mqa support on S9
Better PCM decoding specs on S9 up to 768 khz vs only 384khz
Different tonalities (see Twister review)
If you don't need MQA and are on tight budget seems to be a no-brainer almost


----------



## GoldenTooth

FooFighter said:


> https://twister6.com/2020/10/12/in-a-snapshot-hidizs-s9-mini-usb-dac-amp/
> 
> Interesting device especially for that low price!
> No mqa support on S9
> ...



The hidizs s9 have a newer AK4493EQ chip which is used in high end devices
Than the lotoo s1 with lower end dac chip AK4377.
Still the S9 is cheaper how is that?🤔🤔🤔


----------



## FooFighter

FooFighter said:


> service@lotoo.cn
> I will email them tonight...


I wrote some nice email to the above mentioned email address and got this: "Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender".
Is that some politically motivated functional restriction so I cannot send emails to Chinese receivers?
Anyone encountered something like this before?
How to contact Lotoo service?


----------



## alal

FooFighter said:


> I wrote some nice email to the above mentioned email address and got this: "Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender".
> Is that some politically motivated functional restriction so I cannot send emails to Chinese receivers?
> Anyone encountered something like this before?
> How to contact Lotoo service?


You can try the social media channels: https://www.lotoo.cn/english/Community/


----------



## FooFighter

alal said:


> You can try the social media channels: https://www.lotoo.cn/english/Community/


I was on that page but what then?
Instagram, Facebook, Twitter?
I am not registered in any of these.
Under contact details one can find exactly the blocked email-address from above.


----------



## alal

FooFighter said:


> I was on that page but what then?
> Instagram, Facebook, Twitter?
> I am not registered in any of these.
> Under contact details one can find exactly the blocked email-address from above.


I am just trying to help, right? 👍


----------



## FooFighter

alal said:


> I am just trying to help, right? 👍


sure, not your fault, am just wondering very much how to deal with these market leading Chinese companies when such simple things are turning out to be such difficult


----------



## jsmiller58

GoldenTooth said:


> The hidizs s9 have a newer AK4493EQ chip which is used in high end devices
> Than the lotoo s1 with lower end dac chip AK4377.
> Still the S9 is cheaper how is that?🤔🤔🤔


S1 has significantly greater feature set and build quality than the S9.  The DAC chip is only a part of the equation, and a lower end DAC chip can give superior sound if the overall implementation is better.  I have both and it is no surprise to me the S1 would be more expensive than the S9.


----------



## GoldenTooth

jsmiller58 said:


> S1 has significantly greater feature set and build quality than the S9.  The DAC chip is only a part of the equation, and a lower end DAC chip can give superior sound if the overall implementation is better.  I have both and it is no surprise to me the S1 would be more expensive than the S9.


How does the sound compare?  with EQ disabled on S1 ofc


----------



## jsmiller58 (Mar 7, 2021)

alal said:


> Adding a picture of UAPP and PAW S1. UAPP reports USB DAC @ 44.1kHZ / PAW S1 MQA. X4


I get exactly the same thing as you on this track.  I trust the display on the S1.  If for some reason UAPP was not transferring the MQA bit stream, why would the S1 display MQA data that matches what the UAPP is reporting for the file?


----------



## jsmiller58

GoldenTooth said:


> How does the sound compare?  with EQ disabled on S1 ofc


I will have to play with both again tomorrow.  Last I remember the mids on the S1 were much more full than the S9, giving the S1 a warmer (and to me more pleasing) sound compared to a leaner sound on the S9...  but that is just from memory...


----------



## sulfuriq

jsmiller58 said:


> S1 has significantly greater feature set and build quality than the S9.  The DAC chip is only a part of the equation, and a lower end DAC chip can give superior sound if the overall implementation is better.  I have both and it is no surprise to me the S1 would be more expensive than the S9.


Yes, I agree with you.  For example like the Burr Brown DAC chip used by iFi/AMR in their dac/amp is fully modified in which the user can update the filter or sound signature that they like most. DAC chip is not the end game. Even using the Qualcomm DAC should be enough for some people with proper amplifier like FiiO A3. Last time I tried an *Ultra Cheap USB DAC* that using Sabre DAC chip but died on me after using several time. These external DAC/AMP usually will get hot especially when you playing high-res. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32868505086.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dEcb55z


----------



## GoldenTooth

jsmiller58 said:


> I will have to play with both again tomorrow.  Last I remember the mids on the S1 were much more full than the S9, giving the S1 a warmer (and to me more pleasing) sound compared to a leaner sound on the S9...  but that is just from memory...


Thanks, please keep me posted after you do the test , because i will order one of them from Amazon soon.


----------



## FooFighter

After long listening at night I really find the pairing with my Andro Golds and IPHONE11PRO running Tidal sublime.
Clarity in high registers without piercing stage and good low end.
Am happy with them
EMI is there from time to time depending on position of the player in relation to the phone but not very loud and not audible once music is playing.

One thing though (it's my first dongle without battery): it's drinking like a Ferrari.
I will look into some external battery solution and Y lightning adapter.
Any experience / suggestions here?


----------



## alal

jsmiller58 said:


> I get exactly the same thing as you on this track.  I trust the display on the S1.  If for some reason UAPP was not transferring the MQA bit stream, why would the S1 display MQA data that matches what the UAPP is reporting for the file?


Agreed. I will reach out to UAPP on this.


----------



## sulfuriq

FooFighter said:


> After long listening at night I really find the pairing with my Andro Golds and IPHONE11PRO running Tidal sublime.
> Clarity in high registers without piercing stage and good low end.
> Am happy with them
> EMI is there from time to time depending on position of the player in relation to the phone but not very loud and not audible once music is playing.
> ...


I have been using Zerolemon External Battery for my Note 3 for almost 10 years. 
https://zerolemon.com/collections/apple

.


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 7, 2021)

Sorry, if that has been asked before:
Equalizer is disabled when playing MQA files?
A-B ing IPhone vs UApp Android I prefer SQ of UApp Android, it's clearer, more transparent 🙄
But that's in general an impression I have collected with other DAPs too...
Android USB C cable connection with my Motorola unfortunately very unstable 
I put it in back pocket and connection is lost - not so with the IPhone...
Skipping tracks with Iwatch of course most convenient.
Folding dongle and usb cables behind iPhone in back pocket is leading to sporadic EMI 🙄
Can someone share his workaround for EMI like using e.g. clips and thereby getting the dongle more distant from the phone?


----------



## felix3650

Somehow my S1 isn't noisy as you guys are reporting here 
Of the few times I've used it at home it was with the standard cable and near my Zenfone 6. Also battery consumption was pretty low. I saw a max 3% per hour whereas I'm seeing a 2% per hour by using UAPP with my phone directly..another strange thing..maybe a bug with UAPP?


----------



## sulfuriq (Mar 7, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Sorry, if that has been asked before:
> Equalizer is disabled when playing MQA files?
> A-B ing IPhone vs UApp Android I prefer SQ of UApp Android, it's clearer, more transparent 🙄
> But that's in general an impression I have collected with other DAPs too...
> ...


Yep, you can only use Gain, it need bit-perfect to recognize the MQA.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/21653-official-tidal-hifi-streaming-issues-thread/page/39/




UAPP is using it's own USB DAC driver
"When connecting an Android phone or tablet to a USB DAC, USB Audio Player PRO will unleash the full power of the DAC, by using our custom developed USB audio driver. This bypasses the Android audio system completely, meaning that Android's limitations regarding bit resolution and sample rate (16-bit/48kHz) are made irrelevant and high quality audio streams are fed directly to the DAC, making playback up to 32-bit at 384kHz possible (depending on the DAC capabilities) or even DSD."

Probably the Motorola USB socket got loose because mine is having a sturdy connection on OnePlus 7T USB-C port. I think you need a longer OTG cable since you can only control the volume from S1 or use Velcro tape for your S1 to keep it in place you wanted.


----------



## KowalskiFUT

My S1 should arrive tomorrow. I will try it with IE800, and by the end of the week I hope, also with JH Angie.


----------



## waveSounds

A tip for anyone using a USB C to C cable; all USB C cables are OTG inherently. You can use any C to C cable so long as it supports data transfer (which, in theory, should be all of them).


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 7, 2021)

felix3650 said:


> Somehow my S1 isn't noisy as you guys are reporting here
> Of the few times I've used it at home it was with the standard cable and near my Zenfone 6. Also battery consumption was pretty low. I saw a max 3% per hour whereas I'm seeing a 2% per hour by using UAPP with my phone directly..another strange thing..maybe a bug with UAPP?


EMI is I think very much depending on the phone.
Newer IPhones have been reported as EMI monsters before in this thread.
When laying on couch with phone and S1 seperated it can be worked around but when cramped in your jeans they are too close...
I need to examine the battery thing more closely and only playing music without surfing etc but your mentioned numbers at least didn't apply to my IPhone11Pro pairing yesterday. Might also again depend on 
- pairing again...
- flac resolution, respectively MQA decoding might need significantly more juice... I played a lot MQA yesterday...


----------



## KowalskiFUT

FooFighter said:


> EMI is I think very much depending on the phone.
> Newer IPhones have been reported as EMI monsters before in this thread.
> When laying on couch with phone and S1 seperated it can be worked around but when cramped in your jeans they are too close...
> I need to examine the battery thing more closely and only playing music without surfing etc but your mentioned numbers at least didn't apply to my IPhone11Pro pairing yesterday. Might also again depend on
> ...



Got 11 Pro Max, and it has, like generation or two of models before, some crap Intel antenna; instead of Qualcomm. So that may be the reason.


----------



## alal

alal said:


> Agreed. I will reach out to UAPP on this.


Did reach out to UAPP who provided a prompt reply.
They say it looks as it should and that UAPP cannot know which sample rate the DAC unfolds and shows the sample rate being sent to the DAC. UAPP does not show any light when playing MQA (green, blue or magenta), because the DAC is doing everything.
Also asked why the DAC shows 32bit rate regardless of what is playing and they also said that UAPP always use the highest supported bit rate by the DAC.


----------



## FooFighter

alal said:


> Did reach out to UAPP who provided a prompt reply.
> They say it looks as it should and that UAPP cannot know which sample rate the DAC unfolds and shows the sample rate being sent to the DAC. UAPP does not show any light when playing MQA (green, blue or magenta), because the DAC is doing everything.
> Also asked why the DAC shows 32bit rate regardless of what is playing and they also said that UAPP always use the highest supported bit rate by the DAC.


Thx!
So we re coming to the point where we have to trust the S1 display?
Several questions come to my mind

1.) 32 bit is shown regardless if UApp is used or Tidal native app 
As far as I know bit depth is not part of the MQA unfolding process?
Therefore this then must be either 
a) upsampling (who does it then: UApp, respectively Tidal app or S1?)
b) wrong display 

2.) unfolding bit rate is at least in my setups never correctly calculated on S1 display but only either OFS 4x (IOS) or MQA 4x (Android) displayed 
I saw one exception in some earlier post (I think it was some Note 3 phone) where S1 was showing a higher bit rate than 44/48khz on its display.
Is that a bug or a feature?

Time to ask Lotoo...

I wanted to do yesterday but mail adress is not reachable from Germany...
I was suggested to contact their representative on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/hanako.yu.7) but don't have a Facebook account and also don't want to create one now extra 🙄


----------



## jsmiller58

FooFighter said:


> Thx!
> So we re coming to the point where we have to trust the S1 display?
> Several questions come to my mind
> 
> ...


I think that Lotoo, or UAPP, are filling the extra bits with 0s...  but it would definitely be interesting to see what they say!


----------



## FooFighter

jsmiller58 said:


> I think that Lotoo, or UAPP, are filling the extra bits with 0s...  but it would definitely be interesting to see what they say!


As long as it's clear what's happening like 24 bits in reality and 4 x bitrate being unfolded I am totally fine
Anyone with Facebook account who can ask them?
See above contact


----------



## CANiSLAYu

It’s already been discussed that UAPP pads with zeroes to reach the max supported by the DAC. In S1’s case 32 bits. 




Davy Wentzler said:


> My hairs and eyebrows always raise when someone starts about padding.. When a DAC is 24 or 32-bit, then the driver needs to feed it 24 or 32-bit data. It is done by padding, yes.
> 
> "I read that the bypass happens by padding the 16bits to 24bits". The bypass has nothing to do with padding. The bypass happens because we plug into the Android audio system in a certain way, nothing more.
> 
> UAPP shows the resolution of the source file, not of the target. The target resolution used is always the highest resolution possible. On the G7, that is 24-bit.


----------



## FooFighter

CANiSLAYu said:


> It’s already been discussed that UAPP pads with zeroes to reach the max supported by the DAC. In S1’s case 32 bits.


Hmm, thx but same is happening on IOS Tidal app too, so it's not related to UApp Android but to S1 in general...


----------



## jsmiller58 (Mar 8, 2021)

GoldenTooth said:


> How does the sound compare?  with EQ disabled on S1 ofc


I didn’t have too much time to experiment today, but I did check on a few tracks.  Source - LG v30 and R6 Pro.  IEMs Thieaudio L4 and IMR EDP, both with a balanced cable.  To me, and this could be heard differently by others, the Hidizs S9 is a bit thinner in the mids than the S1 - versus the S9, the S1 sounds warmer, fuller, more natural on the brighter L4 IEM.  On the other hand, for the EDP, an already very warm IEM, the difference was much harder to detect. 

They both have SE and balanced outputs, the S1 with 4.4mm and S9 with 2.5mm.  Based on how loud I can drive my IEMs, the Lotoo S1 has more power on demand than the S9. **Edit:  looking at the specs, both the S1and S9 seem to have approximately the same output power on balanced**

The S1 has a nice display so you can get extra information, the S1 has volume buttons, and the S1 has preset sound filters. The S1 also has MQA support, if that sort of thing matters to you.  I should also note that the S1 FW is easy to upgrade (assuming you have a Windows device).  The build of the Lotoo S1 is many leagues better than the Hidizs S9.

On the sound side it boils down to preferred sound signature...  I prefer the warmer S1, but that is just my preference.  The S9 also sounds great, just I prefer the S1’s warmer signature.

If price is a strong driver, and you have easy to drive IEMs, and you don’t care about MQA, and you are ok with a leaner signature, go for the Hidizs S9.  Otherwise, I think the Lotoo S1 is in another league, overall, and worth the extra money.


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 8, 2021)

Reading the last comparison I am wondering again how comparable DAC-dongles have become in terms of SQ alone for a relatively low price.
So for SQ alone it's only a question of your IEM-DAC synergy and you own taste for sound tuning (warm, neutral, etc.).

So you pay extra for
- good construction quality,
- marketing budget,
- support-infrastructure like how many people they have employed dealing with customer requests, troubleshooting, firmware updates, etx.
... which will all go into the price of the end-product.

I'd personally also prefer a product which is well built and getting regular firmware updates, supporting latest audio standards and I am willing to pay some bucks more for that.


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 9, 2021)

S1 running balanced on High Gain with my Denon Ah D9200 and sounding nice!
Y IPhone OTG adapter loading IPad while playing.
Perfect holiday setup.
I will try battery back and IPhone on the go during next days

Edit: After listening a bit longer with my Denon I wouldn't recommend the pairing: too lean and missing body, especially with Rock and Metal.
but anyway use case would be more for IEMs for me


----------



## KowalskiFUT

Got my S1 today. Listening with IE800, will try with JH Angie later this week, or the next one. I find it excellent device. A lot, but really LOT better than Dragonfly Red. Somebody above described DFR as 2-dimensional, and it is best description of it I heard. S1 has stage depth, and that alone makes great difference. S1 has much more control than DFR. DFR sounds quite raw and "loud". S1 has nice neutral-ish, composed sound image. DFR sometimes didnt seem like a worthy upgrade over iPhone dongle, or output from my Macbook Pro. S1 justify its addition to listening chain. 

Build quality is excellent, solid aluminium chase, really quality construction. It needs firmware update (I installed latest .10) to sort confusion over bitrate info displayed on its small screen, but it is really solid piece of gear. Lotoo, thumbs up!  

P.S. I may be a little biased, because I drooled over Lotoo DAPs for a long time, but couldn't justify their price regarding my audio budget.


----------



## snowy8171

any of you guys compared this to the khadas tone 2 pro? either get that or the s1. mostly mqa playback. was also looking at the L&P w2, but that doesn't have mqa support


----------



## sulfuriq

Just got my USB-C to Micro USB OTG and it's working. The shortest that I can get probably?


----------



## FooFighter (Mar 10, 2021)

snowy8171 said:


> any of you guys compared this to the khadas tone 2 pro? either get that or the s1. mostly mqa playback. was also looking at the L&P w2, but that doesn't have mqa support


interesting device, I like the volume wheel!
Plus full hardware mqa unfolding.
From what I read about it, it is though looking more like a micro desktop device rather than dongle?
Guess for mobile operation you'll need to attach a separate battery pack to its 2nd USB-port?
But when looking at what others here are doing to also apply extra battery power that mustn't be the big disadvantage of this device.
Reading the reviews it seems operation is a bit quirky changing modes but that's something you can get used to.

In the end I am wondering when looking at all these devices if there are really significant SQ differences or rather more better or worse DAC-headphone synergy-pairings.
Khadas using ESS Sabre DACs, so potentially brighter, colder, so you're then running better when combining with warmer headphones, but that of course differs depending on the overall DAC-implementation...


----------



## shinbojan (Mar 10, 2021)

After a week of a/b testing with my iems (dunu 2000j), I must admit that I hear almost no differences compared to iphone 6s.
I've only listened a few tracks with Fidelio X2, but to me they've sounded the same.
Ofc, this can be caused by my music selection (mostly rock/metal), imprecise volume matching, my hearing or just lack of experience. If you can, please recommend me some tracks and what to look for.

But I am still satisfied with the device.
It looks nice, does not have to be charged and offers better sound when connected to my laptop or to Switch (I plan to use it with playstation 5 after I buy it, as I cannot connect my schiit stack to it).
It also helped me find the limits of my hearing, I would've made a big mistake if I've bought M11 Pro like I was planning to.


----------



## KowalskiFUT

shinbojan said:


> After a week of a/b testing with my iems (dunu 2000j), I must admit that I hear almost no differences compared to iphone 6s.
> I've only listened a few tracks with Fidelio X2, but to me they've sounded the same.
> Ofc, this can be caused by my music selection (mostly rock/metal), imprecise volume matching, my hearing or just lack of experience. If you can, please recommend me some tracks and what to look for.
> 
> ...



Mate, most important thing is to always, ALWAYS, trust your own ears. Because in this hobby it is easy to become passive zombie that bites and buys the hype. People compulsive buy things they dont need, because they are in belief that they sound better for some mythical golden ears of some other person. There is no "right" answer, I find sound from iPhone dongle (newer iPhones dont have 3.5 output so I use dongle),  better than a lot expensive gear. Gear that some things does very well, but a lot of important things does quite wrong so end product isnt pretty or accurate sound image.


----------



## Nvain

Hi, not sure if it's allowed or not, but I am looking to buy a used S1. Pm me if you might want to let yours go .


----------



## musicday

Lotoo Paw S1 review after the MQA support:

https://www.fairaudio.de/test/lotoo-paw-s1-kopfhoererverstaerker-dac-fuers-smartphone/#prettyPhoto


----------



## sulfuriq

The more I use Lotoo PAW S1, the more I like it. There's definitely different between S1 with ifi Hip DAC and Zen DAC due to different DAC chip but all of them have good SQ. It's so easy to drive my 1more H1707 (unbalanced) and Hifiman HE400SE (balanced) with details and clarity. 
With iFi Hip DAC you have to worry 2 batteries, the phone and the DAC while S1 you only need 1
Both can play Hi-Res, DSD and MQA
Hip DAC you can't change the sound signature except in the phone where you'll loose the bit-perfect but S1 have the built in EQ/ATE except for MQA
Both can control volume externally
S1 you have the display of information while Hip DAC based on LED color (PCM/DSD/MQA)
Both well built with aluminum casing
S1 is more portable and worry free compare to Hip DAC without hassle
S1 will not easily forgive bad recording files 
This small dac/amp have checked all the box as a truly portable device that can enhance you music listening level while on the go. Good work Lotoo!!


----------



## NinjaGirayaZ

sulfuriq said:


> The more I use Lotoo PAW S1, the more I like it. There's definitely different between S1 with ifi Hip DAC and Zen DAC due to different DAC chip but all of them have good SQ. It's so easy to drive my 1more H1707 (unbalanced) and Hifiman HE400SE (balanced) with details and clarity.
> With iFi Hip DAC you have to worry 2 batteries, the phone and the DAC while S1 you only need 1
> Both can play Hi-Res, DSD and MQA
> Hip DAC you can't change the sound signature except in the phone where you'll loose the bit-perfect but S1 have the built in EQ/ATE except for MQA
> ...


When it comes only to sound quality, which do you prefer?


----------



## sulfuriq

NinjaGirayaZ said:


> When it comes only to sound quality, which do you prefer?


It's very subjective. Both iFi Zen DAC and Hip-DAC have their own continuous power supply (5v and Battery Powered) which they have more soundstage compare to Lotoo PAW S1 which derives power from the smartphone. Just compare their power out put on Balanced and Single Ended.  In terms of sound quality, all these 3 dac/amp gives smooth separations and clarities that sooth your music listening and also up to your preferences. But for me, I've enjoy listening on all of them, and depends on your listening equipment too like your speaker/headphone/iem.


----------



## Deezel177

Hey, everyone! I wanted to share my review of the PAW S1. I found it exceptionally good for its form factor and price, and it gets an instant recommendation from me if you wanna elevate your portable set-up without committing to a full-on DAP. I hope you enjoy. Thanks! 

*Lotoo PAW S1: The Swiss Army - A USB DAC/Amp Review*


----------



## Bikeboy88

Lotoo PAW S1 isn't playing well with my 2012 MacBook Pro (running Mojave).  When I try playing back using the Lotoo USB-A adapter my Mac doesn't seem to recognize the PAW S1 at all, and the music just outputs to the laptop speakers.  Is my Mac too old? or am I missing something else?


----------



## utdeep

Works great with my M1 MacBook Pro


----------



## Bikeboy88

utdeep said:


> Works great with my M1 MacBook Pro


Hmm.  When it's plugged in, does it register as a device when you go to System Preferences>Sound>Output?


----------



## musicday

Bikeboy88 said:


> Lotoo PAW S1 isn't playing well with my 2012 MacBook Pro (running Mojave).  When I try playing back using the Lotoo USB-A adapter my Mac doesn't seem to recognize the PAW S1 at all, and the music just outputs to the laptop speakers.  Is my Mac too old? or am I missing something else?


Do you have the latest firmware on the S1?


----------



## Bikeboy88

musicday said:


> Do you have the latest firmware on the S1?


Yup, upgraded two days ago to the latest ver. (1.0.0.10).


----------



## musicday

Bikeboy88 said:


> Yup, upgraded two days ago to the latest ver. (1.0.0.10).


Can you connect it in the UAC 1 mode?


----------



## Bikeboy88

I was able to mount the unit on my desktop to upgrade the firmware.  Is that what's meant by UAC 1 mode?


----------



## musicday

Bikeboy88 said:


> I was able to mount the unit on my desktop to upgrade the firmware.  Is that what's meant by UAC 1 mode?


>Added UAC1 mode that enables the DAC to be used with gaming consoles and windows 7/8 PCs.

Consoles Supported:-​Nintendo Switch, Sony Playstation 4, Xbox One.

How to Use UAC1 Mode:-​Hold the “+” key on Lotoo PAW S1 then connect to the gaming device, “UAC1 MODE” will be shown on S1 during booting.

Reconnect without  “+” key held will switch back to normal mode(UAC2).


----------



## Bikeboy88

musicday said:


> >Added UAC1 mode that enables the DAC to be used with gaming consoles and windows 7/8 PCs.
> 
> Consoles Supported:-​Nintendo Switch, Sony Playstation 4, Xbox One.
> 
> ...


Thanks.  I don't have a gaming console, but I tried connecting to my laptop holding the "+" key and the PAW S1 did go into UAC1 mode.  In UAC1 I tried listening to music but the sound still comes from the laptop speakers.  Tried removing and re-inserting (normal mode), same result.


----------



## jsmiller58

Bikeboy88 said:


> Thanks.  I don't have a gaming console, but I tried connecting to my laptop holding the "+" key and the PAW S1 did go into UAC1 mode.  In UAC1 I tried listening to music but the sound still comes from the laptop speakers.  Tried removing and re-inserting (normal mode), same result.


Sorry, haven’t read the whole sub thread on this, so I may be asking a silly question...  have you checked in the windows settings that the S1 is selected as the audio option?  Just connecting an external device sometimes doesn‘t result in that device automatically being selected.

Again, sorry if this doesn’t add any value!


----------



## Bikeboy88

I appreciate the engagement, but I'm using an Apple laptop, a 2012 MacBook Pro.


----------



## musicday

Bikeboy88 said:


> I appreciate the engagement, but I'm using an Apple laptop, a 2012 MacBook Pro.


Hopefully you can get it work. I tried the same to connect my W2 to Windows 7 and it doesn't work but I have no problems at all with my S1 in UAC 1 mode.
Great sound on movie preset.


----------



## Bikeboy88

Your posts may help other Windows users, so that's for the contribution!


----------



## sulfuriq

Bikeboy88 said:


> Lotoo PAW S1 isn't playing well with my 2012 MacBook Pro (running Mojave).  When I try playing back using the Lotoo USB-A adapter my Mac doesn't seem to recognize the PAW S1 at all, and the music just outputs to the laptop speakers.  Is my Mac too old? or am I missing something else?


Probably the cable you are using. Try to borrow other people's Mac OTG cable to test.


----------



## Bikeboy88

I doubt that's the case.  The adapter and cable are brand new genuine Lotoo parts. I used the same adapter and cable to update the firmware on the PAW S1 and it worked fine.  But when it's in normal mode, it doesn't show up as a selectable device in System Preferences>Sound>Output.


----------



## pfrederi1

bluestorm1992 said:


> I happen to have both of them (and paw 6000 as well). What specifically do you want to know about?
> 
> I think the LPGT is hands down one of the best purchases I have ever made. Very smooth and clean user interface (much better than Android-based systems in my mind). Powerful enough to fully drive the Sony IER-Z1R. If you already have a decent music collection (in SD cards), I think LPGT is the best option in the market right now.
> 
> ...


How do you like your PAW 6000. I just purchased mine but im trying to get the best closed back headphones and\or IEM to pair it with. Currently I have the ATH-MSR7b closed back headphones and they sound ok but i would like more power and clarity. Ialso have the RHA IEM T20i they sound great!! but now it sounds like the plug maybe having a short issue. Any recommndations is appreciated. Thx


----------



## sulfuriq

Bikeboy88 said:


> I doubt that's the case.  The adapter and cable are brand new genuine Lotoo parts. I used the same adapter and cable to update the firmware on the PAW S1 and it worked fine.  But when it's in normal mode, it doesn't show up as a selectable device in System Preferences>Sound>Output.


The USB Adapter or the Lightning cable?

"Android / iOS / iPad OS / Windows support
Android and iOS connections are instant with the USB-C and Lightning cable (separate purchase needed) and you will need to make sure your phone supports USB audio output. I recommend using the UAPP app on android for their USB driver support. For Windows users, the driver will be installed automatically and MacBook connection works right away too."

https://headfonics.com/lotoo-paw-s1-review/


----------



## Bikeboy88

sulfuriq said:


> The USB Adapter or the Lightning cable?
> 
> "Android / iOS / iPad OS / Windows support
> Android and iOS connections are instant with the USB-C and Lightning cable (separate purchase needed) and you will need to make sure your phone supports USB audio output. I recommend using the UAPP app on android for their USB driver support. For Windows users, the driver will be installed automatically and MacBook connection works right away too."
> ...


Helpful, thanks.  Just to be ultra clear, my connection goes: PAW S1>Lotoo USB-C to USB-C cable>Lotoo USB-C to USB-A adapter>MacBook Pro.  I've tried rebooting, resetting the NVRAM and the PAW S1 still isn't showing up as a selectable device in System Preferences>Sound>Output.


----------



## sulfuriq

Bikeboy88 said:


> Helpful, thanks.  Just to be ultra clear, my connection goes: PAW S1>Lotoo USB-C to USB-C cable>Lotoo USB-C to USB-A adapter>MacBook Pro.  I've tried rebooting, resetting the NVRAM and the PAW S1 still isn't showing up as a selectable device in System Preferences>Sound>Output.


Well this most likely cable compatibility issue as known not all OTG cable compatible with PAW S1. Try to get USB3 to USB-C cable.
"I’ve tested this PAW S1 with a couple other Type-C cables, and those results are a tad hit-or-miss. The ultra-long charging cable that I use with my MacBook does get this device to work, but it disconnects intermittently; presumably, because of a lack of power. *The USB 3.0 to Type-C cable that comes with the PAW Gold Touch works perfectly fine.* So, I’d personally recommend using the cables Lotoo provides for the best results. Though, in a pinch, most standard cables can work too."

https://theheadphonelist.com/lotoo-paw-s1-the-swiss-army-a-usb-dac-amp-review/


----------



## bluestorm1992

pfrederi1 said:


> How do you like your PAW 6000. I just purchased mine but im trying to get the best closed back headphones and\or IEM to pair it with. Currently I have the ATH-MSR7b closed back headphones and they sound ok but i would like more power and clarity. Ialso have the RHA IEM T20i they sound great!! but now it sounds like the plug maybe having a short issue. Any recommndations is appreciated. Thx


I mostly used the PAW6000 with IEMs. Same as you, I really like its clarity sound, but found it a bit underpowered for full-size headphones.

If desired, check out some external amps to be added to the 6K, such as Romi BX2 or Cayin C9.


----------



## Bikeboy88

sulfuriq said:


> Well this most likely cable compatibility issue as known not all OTG cable compatible with PAW S1. Try to get USB3 to USB-C cable.
> "I’ve tested this PAW S1 with a couple other Type-C cables, and those results are a tad hit-or-miss. The ultra-long charging cable that I use with my MacBook does get this device to work, but it disconnects intermittently; presumably, because of a lack of power. *The USB 3.0 to Type-C cable that comes with the PAW Gold Touch works perfectly fine.* So, I’d personally recommend using the cables Lotoo provides for the best results. Though, in a pinch, most standard cables can work too."
> 
> https://theheadphonelist.com/lotoo-paw-s1-the-swiss-army-a-usb-dac-amp-review/


Thanks.  I doubt it's a cable issue as I had no trouble mounting the PAW S1 on my desktop using the same cable/adapter combination to upgrade the firmware on the PAW S1.  So the Lotoo USB-C to USB-C cable and USB-A to USB-C adapter combination do allow communication between the PAW S1 and the MacBook Pro.


----------



## sulfuriq

Bikeboy88 said:


> Thanks.  I doubt it's a cable issue as I had no trouble mounting the PAW S1 on my desktop using the same cable/adapter combination to upgrade the firmware on the PAW S1.  So the Lotoo USB-C to USB-C cable and USB-A to USB-C adapter combination do allow communication between the PAW S1 and the MacBook Pro.


Well better send an e-mail to Apple Support as other member that using Mac Book can use their Lotoo PAW S1.


----------



## Bikeboy88

sulfuriq said:


> Well better send an e-mail to Apple Support as other member that using Mac Book can use their Lotoo PAW S1.


Yes, looking into Apple Support and will post solution when available.


----------



## pfrederi1

bluestorm1992 said:


> I mostly used the PAW6000 with IEMs. Same as you, I really like its clarity sound, but found it a bit underpowered for full-size headphones.
> 
> If desired, check out some external amps to be added to the 6K, such as Romi BX2 or Cayin C9.


Ok Thx yeah I was looking for a good DAP to where i would not have to stack an additional amp on top to get great sound. But I hooked up my Fiio A3 and it sounds waaaay better but i again i was hoping to not to have to do that thats part of the reason why i splurged and got this PAW 6000. I was hoping to be able to toss just the PAW 6000 player in my pocket when traveling instead of a bulky amp attached but oh well!!! Guess ill continue my searh for a low impedance headphoness that sound great that the PAW 6000 can drive well. Any suggestions is welcomed. Just an added note by no means am i an audiphile im just posing as one lol. Thx


----------



## bluestorm1992 (Mar 21, 2021)

I


pfrederi1 said:


> Ok Thx yeah I was looking for a good DAP to where i would not have to stack an additional amp on top to get great sound. But I hooked up my Fiio A3 and it sounds waaaay better but i again i was hoping to not to have to do that thats part of the reason why i splurged and got this PAW 6000. I was hoping to be able to toss just the PAW 6000 player in my pocket when traveling instead of a bulky amp attached but oh well!!! Guess ill continue my searh for a low impedance headphoness that sound great that the PAW 6000 can drive well. Any suggestions is welcomed. Just an added note by no means am i an audiphile im just posing as one lol. Th


I think the iBasso DX300 had tons of power at a similar price point. Might worth checking it out.

Edit: figured that you are asking for a headphone, sorry. Maybe the iBasso SR25?


----------



## Etmost (Mar 22, 2021)

Good day.

My current setup is Apple USB-C dongle + Blon Bl 03. I recently purchased a FIIO FH3 and while waiting for it to arrive, I was looking for a DAC-AMP and stumbled upon this thread. I'm planning to use my new IEM on my laptop and Tidal as my music streaming platform. Would the Lotoo Paw S1 be a good pairing with the FIIO FH3?


----------



## pfrederi1

bluestorm1992 said:


> I
> 
> I think the iBasso DX300 had tons of power at a similar price point. Might worth checking it out.
> 
> Edit: figured that you are asking for a headphone, sorry. Maybe the iBasso SR25?


Yeah I was more looking for recommendations for a pair of good closed back headphones that the PAW 6000 can drive well to give me good sound w/o the need for an external amp.
Also sorry for the questions but i just joined this site. what do i have to do to be able to post my own thread topics and questions ?? Thx


----------



## Bikeboy88

Bikeboy88 said:


> Yes, looking into Apple Support and will post solution when available.


Definitely a MacOS issue, not the PAW S1.


----------



## jsmiller58

Etmost said:


> Good day.
> 
> My current setup is Apple USB-C dongle + Blon Bl 03. I recently purchased a FIIO FH3 and while waiting for it to arrive, I was looking for a DAC-AMP and stumbled upon this thread. I'm planning to use my new IEM on my laptop and Tidal as my music streaming platform. Would the Lotoo Paw S1 be a good pairing with the FIIO FH3?


I have used that combination, and it works well.  There are many dongle solutions available and it boils down to what feature you are looking for, power output, and price.  The S1 is a great all rounder, but if just to drive FH3 might be overkill (unless you also want MQA).


----------



## musicday

I am using the S1 with the Blon BL-03 with silver plated copper cable, windows 7 64 bit ultimate and movies and I am very happy with the sound.
I just purchased a 180 degree USB type C cable from Ali.


----------



## Rcuello56

musicday said:


> I am using the S1 with the Blon BL-03 with silver plated copper cable, windows 7 64 bit ultimate and movies and I am very happy with the sound.
> I just purchased a 180 degree USB type C cable from Ali.


180 degree? Please vive some detail about


----------



## jsmiller58

Rcuello56 said:


> 180 degree? Please vive some detail about


----------



## musicday (Mar 22, 2021)

Rcuello56 said:


> 180 degree? Please vive some detail about


Enjoy?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001476774066.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.28e74c4dGWnUn9


----------



## Etmost

jsmiller58 said:


> I have used that combination, and it works well.  There are many dongle solutions available and it boils down to what feature you are looking for, power output, and price.  The S1 is a great all rounder, but if just to drive FH3 might be overkill (unless you also want MQA).


Thank you for your input. I was looking for something that can play MQA and found that the only option that I can find on my local seller's shop that has a 3.5m is the Lotoo Paw S1. Different types of connectors is something I want to explore later. I do understand your point that it might be overkill in general. I just want something I can purchase once and not think about an upgrade for a very long time.


----------



## Etmost

musicday said:


> I am using the S1 with the Blon BL-03 with silver plated copper cable, windows 7 64 bit ultimate and movies and I am very happy with the sound.
> I just purchased a 180 degree USB type C cable from Ali.



Great to hear that. What set-up were you using before? Was the difference significant for you?


----------



## wave0nl

Late to the party but my PAW should be coming tomorrow, should be goog


----------



## Etmost

Today my Paw S1 doesn't display 4x unfold when I play Tidal Master file. Does anyone else have the same issue?


----------



## jsmiller58

Etmost said:


> Today my Paw S1 doesn't display 4x unfold when I play Tidal Master file. Does anyone else have the same issue?


Are you using UAPP?


----------



## Etmost (Apr 1, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> Are you using UAPP?


Forgot to mention that I'm using it on my laptop. It used to show the 4x unfold before this on the oled screen.

Update: I got it to work by turning on the Exclusive Mode on Tidal.


----------



## crazywipe

Hi guys,
Do the S1 has lineout to be used like a DAC conneted to an AMP?


----------



## sm0rf

crazywipe said:


> Hi guys,
> Do the S1 has lineout to be used like a DAC conneted to an AMP?


no output at all


----------



## crazywipe

sm0rf said:


> no output at all


Strange... So if I connect It to an external amp It will not make any sound at all?


----------



## twister6

crazywipe said:


> Strange... So if I connect It to an external amp It will not make any sound at all?


Of course it works and makes sound  Just that output of S1 is headphone output going through its own internal amplification stage, not a clean LO.


----------



## wave0nl

You only have the 3.5mm se & 4.4mm bal phone outs, no line out is what he means, I think


----------



## crazywipe

twister6 said:


> Of course it works and makes sound  Just that output of S1 is headphone output going through its own internal amplification stage, not a clean LO.


Yes, this! lol
I was just wondering how bad it will be. Anyone tried an external amp + S1?


----------



## sulfuriq

crazywipe said:


> Strange... So if I connect It to an external amp It will not make any sound at all?


It still produce sound if you are using 3.5mm output to 3.5mm input on AMP like Fiio A3 but Lotoo PAW S1 already has AMP in it. Better invest in Balanced Cable 4.4mm to take advantage of the 120mW output


----------



## outofthebox

So I jumped onto the PAW S1 bandwagon a few days back and I'm very happy with it. In comparable devices I was using the Sonata BHD earlier and this is several notches up in terms of features, build quality as well as sound quality. Enjoying MQA playback on it too.


----------



## musicday

outofthebox said:


> So I jumped onto the PAW S1 bandwagon a few days back and I'm very happy with it. In comparable devices I was using the Sonata BHD earlier and this is several notches up in terms of features, build quality as well as sound quality. Enjoying MQA playback on it too.


Now you need to get the W2 also to have the cercle completed.


----------



## Devodonaldson

crazywipe said:


> Yes, this! lol
> I was just wondering how bad it will be. Anyone tried an external amp + S1?


Yes. You'll  most likely run it at 70% to 80% volume to prevent clipping to your amp. Rear of the volume will occur at your amplifier. Not a problem


----------



## outofthebox

musicday said:


> Now you need to get the W2 also to have the cercle completed.


oh yessir! have been drooling over it for quite some time in the W2 thread. I already like the characteristics of CS DACs and this one seems to be absolute SOTA in terms of performance & feature set. I do have a use case for the S/PDIF out too. It's definitely on my radar.


----------



## jmwant

snowy8171 said:


> any of you guys compared this to the khadas tone 2 pro? either get that or the s1. mostly mqa playback. was also looking at the L&P w2, but that doesn't have mqa support


I think the Tone 2 pro has a more powerful amp section.
https://headfonics.com/khadas-tone2-pro-review/


----------



## outofthebox

jmwant said:


> I think the Tone 2 pro has a more powerful amp section.


I was also in this boat a while back. IMO the Tone 2 Pro, whilst very tempting, is more towards desktop amp/DACs or portable gear from the past decade, due to it's form factor. It's better to compare it with gear like the Ifi Zen DAC. 

The USP of it though is that it has full MQA hardware - decoder plus renderer, and a very unique RCA connector set for balanced line out and AES/EBU in. Last but not the least, it has quite a few user tweak-able filters, in addition to gobs of power and the option to use a high quality external PSU.

I haven't come across this combo of features in small form factor DACs yet. Not a big fan of it's UI though.


----------



## sulfuriq

Just got back my iFi Hip DAC after send for RMA (they replaced it with a new unit). Compare these two SQ (PAW S1 vs Hip DAC), PAW S1 is more appealing to me plus I don't have to worry 2 batteries while using Hip DAC, since my Samsung Note 3 is using 10,000mah I'm pretty sure it can outlast Hip DAC. To get volume match with Hip DAC 5.3C Firmware, it's about 80 on PAW S1 with High Gain both using 4.4mm Balanced. Simply said that Lotoo PAW S1 make portable easy and less hassle


----------



## Ciuvn

Hello there! I wonder is there anyone who tried to use 2 port 3.5 & 4.4 together at the same time?  is it possible?


----------



## ClieOS

Ciuvn said:


> Hello there! I wonder is there anyone who tried to use 2 port 3.5 & 4.4 together at the same time?  is it possible?



3.5mm output will be automatically cut off when 4.4mm socket is plugged in.


----------



## outofthebox

Ciuvn said:


> Hello there! I wonder is there anyone who tried to use 2 port 3.5 & 4.4 together at the same time?  is it possible?


From page 20 of owner manual ...


----------



## CrocodileDundee

Hello Everyone! Just got onboard the Paw S1 train and this little thing sounds amazing. way better than my other Fiio ones. 

I can see people wanting more power out of the S1 and I am here trying to find a way to make it less loud. 

Listening to 4.4mm on volume 1 and is still freaking loud. 

Any tips on how to make the best of it is welcome.


----------



## MaggotBrain

Anyone on this thread have any experience with this paired with an MMR Thummim and an iPhone?
have the LP W2 but the connection with the Apple is glitchy and it skips like a scratched CD even when I turn the volume down.


----------



## twister6

MaggotBrain said:


> Anyone on this thread have any experience with this paired with an MMR Thummim and an iPhone?
> have the LP W2 but the connection with the Apple is glitchy and it skips like a scratched CD even when I turn the volume down.



As you probably aware, iPhone has a limitation of 100mA current draw from external devices.  S1 draws less current than W2 thus should have a better compatibility with iPhones, especially if you are not listening at higher volume.  But S1 sound quality is not on the same level as W2, more like W1.


----------



## MaggotBrain

twister6 said:


> As you probably aware, iPhone has a limitation of 100mA current draw from external devices.  S1 draws less current than W2 thus should have a better compatibility with iPhones, especially if you are not listening at higher volume.  But S1 sound quality is not on the same level as W2, more like W1.


Thanks for the reply. I’ll probably look around for another options. I’ve tried the ifi hip DAC too but it flakes out on me too.  It is kinda frustrating that I picked up the w2 to be a lightweight high quality dongle but I have to bring along a Fioo BTR5 in my fanny pack because I’ve been burned so many times. The 4.4 input on the S1 is a good selling point though and wish more lightweight dacs had this as an option.


----------



## chaotic_angel

CrocodileDundee said:


> Hello Everyone! Just got onboard the Paw S1 train and this little thing sounds amazing. way better than my other Fiio ones.
> 
> I can see people wanting more power out of the S1 and I am here trying to find a way to make it less loud.
> 
> ...


what iem? 
have you set it to low gain?


----------



## CrocodileDundee

chaotic_angel said:


> what iem?
> have you set it to low gain?


Yep. It is low gain since arrival.

IEMs are the ones one my signature (EE LX, 64a A12t, JH Layla, 64a Nio, SD5)

ps.: I’m usually sensitive to volume. Almost all the sources I had sounded loud to me.


----------



## utdeep

You may need the ifi iem match.


----------



## CrocodileDundee

utdeep said:


> You may need the ifi iem match.


Yeah. I’m trying to avoid that ar all cost. It makes the “portable” setup too complicated (“dongly”).


----------



## iFi audio

CrocodileDundee said:


> Yeah. I’m trying to avoid that ar all cost. It makes the “portable” setup too complicated (“dongly”).


Yes, yet another component that's a dongle might be a challenge to use, but then again it does the job well


----------



## CrocodileDundee

iFi audio said:


> Yes, yet another component that's a dongle might be a challenge to use, but then again it does the job well


What about an ifi amp/dac dongle with iEMatch integrated?


----------



## iFi audio

CrocodileDundee said:


> What about an ifi amp/dac dongle with iEMatch integrated?



Dongles by default have to be as small as possible, so there's no room for iEMatch to go in such a product. nano iDSD BL was the smallest with it inside. Although compact, it's not exactly a dongle 

But yeah, all in all I hear you


----------



## jithu215

Anyone using tin t4 and kanas pro with s1 on se output. How is the synergy. Ordered S1 and will be here next week. Mostly using t4.


----------



## Viajero

Hi, guys. This Lotoo Paw S1 looks really compelling. I may get it. But I do have to ask if anybody knows of a device similar to the Paw S1, Qudelix 5k or BTR5 that can also act as a music player itself (has onboard storage, a UI, etc). That would be my ideal portable solution. It would be small, have both bluetooth and usb connections, great sound, and could be used with my phone or by itself when I'm away from my phone. Does anything like that exist?


----------



## CrocodileDundee

Viajero said:


> Hi, guys. This Lotoo Paw S1 looks really compelling. I may get it. But I do have to ask if anybody knows of a device similar to the Paw S1, Qudelix 5k or BTR5 that can also act as a music player itself (has onboard storage, a UI, etc). That would be my ideal portable solution. It would be small, have both bluetooth and usb connections, great sound, and could be used with my phone or by itself when I'm away from my phone. Does anything like that exist?


Have a look on Shanling M1, Fiio M5, Hiby R2


----------



## ayang02

Viajero said:


> Hi, guys. This Lotoo Paw S1 looks really compelling. I may get it. But I do have to ask if anybody knows of a device similar to the Paw S1, Qudelix 5k or BTR5 that can also act as a music player itself (has onboard storage, a UI, etc). That would be my ideal portable solution. It would be small, have both bluetooth and usb connections, great sound, and could be used with my phone or by itself when I'm away from my phone. Does anything like that exist?



Also take a look at Hidizs AP80 Pro


----------



## Viajero

That





ayang02 said:


> Also take a look at Hidizs AP80 Pro



Thanks, you guys. I appreciate it. I'll check those options out.


----------



## jithu215

Got my s1 yesterday. Mediocre is what i can say.


----------



## musicday

jithu215 said:


> Got my s1 yesterday. Mediocre is what i can say.


Now go and buy the W2 and let's see what you've got to say


----------



## jithu215

musicday said:


> Now go and buy the W2 and let's see what you've got to say


W2 is not available in my country right now. Thanks for the advise.


----------



## jsmiller58

jithu215 said:


> Got my s1 yesterday. Mediocre is what i can say.


i definitely don’t have that impression.  Really enjoy the S1.  I also have the W2 and enjoy it as well.  I only listen to IEMs when I am using dongles so they are both more than adequate.


----------



## twister6

jithu215 said:


> Got my s1 yesterday. Mediocre is what i can say.



Mediocre relative to what?


----------



## saltyfr0g

jsmiller58 said:


> i definitely don’t have that impression.  Really enjoy the S1.  I also have the W2 and enjoy it as well.  I only listen to IEMs when I am using dongles so they are both more than adequate.


Likewise, I love me S1 and W2. With my iPhone I actually prefer my S1 but with my Surface Pro I love my W2.


----------



## jithu215

twister6 said:


> Mediocre relative to what?


Relative to my fiio x5ii +nx3s modded stack. In the thread i read s1 is better or equavalant to midtier to expensive daps like n6ii. That was not in my case. My fiio stack is better than s1. As a standalone dongle i think s1 is good.But it is not a giant killer in my opinion.My iems are tin t4 and kanas pro. Maybe with expensive iems you can hear a big difference.Maybe my expectations was very high.
I didnt experience any signal interactions with my phone like some others.Also balanced high gain volume is very high compared to low gain which is around 10-12 volume steps for me. I used only with my android phones lg v20 and oppo reno z.


----------



## sebek

musicday said:


> Now you need to get the W2 also to have the cercle completed.


Is this a notable upgrade on L1?


----------



## AlexCBSN

jithu215 said:


> Relative to my fiio x5ii +nx3s modded stack. In the thread i read s1 is better or equavalant to midtier to expensive daps like n6ii. That was not in my case. My fiio stack is better than s1. As a standalone dongle i think s1 is good.But it is not a giant killer in my opinion.My iems are tin t4 and kanas pro. Maybe with expensive iems you can hear a big difference.Maybe my expectations was very high.
> I didnt experience any signal interactions with my phone like some others.Also balanced high gain volume is very high compared to low gain which is around 10-12 volume steps for me. I used only with my android phones lg v20 and oppo reno z.


Whoever said that the s1 is better than an n6II, either he’s high or just got hype problems, the n6II is way superior in every way to it, I mean it’s a god damn modulate dap, and power wise it puts the s1 to sleep right away. I can understand getting hyped but still... n6II with any motherboard  (I don’t own e02 thoug) is superior to s1 and ltp w1 (I haven’t tried w2 but still...)


----------



## musicday

sebek said:


> Is this a notable upgrade on L1?


What is L1?


----------



## sebek

musicday said:


> What is L1?


S1


----------



## musicday

sebek said:


> S1


W2 is the best dongle amp DAC at the moment if you don't care about MQA.
S1 is average when compared the two side by side.


----------



## Metalboyy

musicday said:


> W2 is the best dongle amp DAC at the moment if you don't care about MQA.
> S1 is average when compared the two side by side.



Better than the Earmen Sparrow?


----------



## AlexCBSN (May 9, 2021)

Metalboyy said:


> Better than the Earmen Sparrow?


yes, mainly cause it doesnt have as much efi problems as the sparrow... i love the sparrow but i cant cope with its EFI problems


just took the sparrow for another spin... im putting some faraday tape on that thing, the amount of efi is out of the charts. 

i own a bunch of dongles, the sparrow has the biggest EFI problem of em all. i was tempted for the w2 but the "pre order" thing, set's me a bit back. i dont think the companies are going to sit there waiting for it to take the market, i can see more great things coming this way, maybe in a year we'll have a new LTP and shanling or fiio playing the high cards


----------



## musicday

Metalboyy said:


> Better than the Earmen Sparrow?


Better then anything same size.


----------



## utdeep

Lol - a new flavor of the month?


----------



## CrocodileDundee

utdeep said:


> Lol - a new flavor of the month?


Pretty much… as something new appears, the last one becomes the worst ever. Even more if the new one is more expensive.


----------



## musicday

utdeep said:


> Lol - a new flavor of the month?


I had for too long not to know them well 
S1 is good for it's price, but the W2 is amazing even at a higher price point then sells for.


----------



## sebek

musicday said:


> I had for too long not to know them well
> S1 is good for it's price, but the W2 is amazing even at a higher price point then sells for.


And have you tried the Dragonfly Cobalt?


----------



## Metalboyy

AlexCBSN said:


> yes, mainly cause it doesnt have as much efi problems as the sparrow... i love the sparrow but i cant cope with its EFI problems



Yeah the Sparrow has alot of efi. But the soundquality is amazing. Better than S1 and the shanling M6.


----------



## musicday

sebek said:


> And have you tried the Dragonfly Cobalt?


Nope and not interested, too basic.


----------



## dgjl

sebek said:


> And have you tried the Dragonfly Cobalt?


Unless you need the power and want to play with filters, the dfc is every bit as good if not better than the W2. Dfc has a brighter sound that focuses on fine detail. W2 is weightier and darker. Lovely tone on the W2, but loses those fine details of the dfc.


----------



## utdeep

The S1 is impressive to me because it is enough of an improvement over regular dongles to work well for the iPhone, iPad, laptops, and the Nintendo Switch.  It has MQA (which I honestly don’t care for, but shows how much Lotoo is willing to improve the product) and it has several nice accessories from Lotoo and from third parties.  I don’t think dongles can do much given lack of power and small size.  The S1 does just enough.
I wish I could use it as a line out to another amp - that would be the only thing I’d look for at this point.


----------



## sebek

dgjl said:


> Unless you need the power and want to play with filters, the dfc is every bit as good if not better than the W2. Dfc has a brighter sound that focuses on fine detail. W2 is weightier and darker. Lovely tone on the W2, but loses those fine details of the dfc.


Do you prefer DFC to both S1 and W2?


----------



## sebek

I forgot another question: do you use S1 mainly on balanced output or SE?

I know that the balanced has more power, but at the SQ level are there any substantial differences?


----------



## dgjl

sebek said:


> Do you prefer DFC to both S1 and W2?


It's different. Not necessarily better than the W2. Didn't get on with the S1.


----------



## jithu215

sebek said:


> I forgot another question: do you use S1 mainly on balanced output or SE?
> 
> I know that the balanced has more power, but at the SQ level are there any substantial differences?


Yes very noticeable. Power is around 30% more on balanced. Better Soundstage and wider stereo sound. Bass is also slightly tighter. Go for balanced.


----------



## sebek

dgjl said:


> Unless you need the power and want to play with filters, the dfc is every bit as good if not better than the W2. Dfc has a brighter sound that focuses on fine detail. W2 is weightier and darker. Lovely tone on the W2, but loses those fine details of the dfc.


However Dragonfly Cobalt is still the most beautiful sound I have tried, at least under € 500. I also prefer it to Chord Mojo.

I hardly believe that W2 or S1 can somehow beat him. At least in my preferences.


----------



## musicday

sebek said:


> However Dragonfly Cobalt is still the most beautiful sound I have tried, at least under € 500. I also prefer it to Chord Mojo.
> 
> I hardly believe that W2 or S1 can somehow beat him. At least in my preferences.


Sometimes you can also be wrong. Try to listen to W2 first for few hours and after tell us how much you are impressed.


----------



## sebek

musicday said:


> Sometimes you can also be wrong. Try to listen to W2 first for few hours and after tell us how much you are impressed.


If I see a second hand unit for sale in very good condition, from a European user, I might try it.

At MusicTeck it would cost me $ 350 and maybe even import taxes, that's too much...


----------



## musicday

If you find it second hand at a better price then go for it and thank me later .


----------



## dgjl

sebek said:


> However Dragonfly Cobalt is still the most beautiful sound I have tried, at least under € 500. I also prefer it to Chord Mojo.
> 
> I hardly believe that W2 or S1 can somehow beat him. At least in my preferences.


Any gains are marginal. If you have a dfc and are happy, the W2 is probably an extravagance.


----------



## jsmiller58

dgjl said:


> Any gains are marginal. If you have a dfc and are happy, the W2 is probably an extravagance.


I have many dongles, and while I don’t have the DFC, I can see where you are coming from.  Other than small differences that only show up in critical listening, we get to a point where the differences are more about user interfaces (volume buttons, LCD displays, filters), power output (especially for over ear cans), formats supported, and physical build. 

Those differences can and do add up to overall user experience differences - I really enjoy using the S1 and W2 more than the S8, S9, 9038s gen3, Helm Bolt, miniDSP il-DSP, etc, but in truth as I only use IEMs the audible differences are negligible after I stop listening for them. But, I like the **experience** of using the S1 and W2 more...


----------



## conrad.ray

I haven't updated any firmware yet. Does the new firmware 1.0.0.10 change or improve the sound for iPhone, Macbook / AAC? I am not using MQA or lossless, only Apple Music or Spotify streaming.

I guess it should be possible to downgrade the firmware as well?


----------



## conrad.ray

conrad.ray said:


> I haven't updated any firmware yet. Does the new firmware 1.0.0.10 change or improve the sound for iPhone, Macbook / AAC? I am not using MQA or lossless, only Apple Music or Spotify streaming.
> 
> I guess it should be possible to downgrade the firmware as well?


Ok tried it anyway. Although I listened to the old firmware for just a few hours, seems 1.0.0.10 made the sound leaner / brighter, which wasn’t the case till 10.0.0.8. I get the feeling bass quantity has reduced.

Downgrade didn’t work for me.


----------



## twiceboss

Can anyone here tell me the difference of S1 vs ES100? Es100 warm is good but the layering, staging, imaging, are lackluster. Im finding an upgrade.


----------



## CrocodileDundee

twiceboss said:


> Can anyone here tell me the difference of S1 vs ES100? Es100 warm is good but the layering, staging, imaging, are lackluster. Im finding an upgrade.


For me…4.4mm connection only.


----------



## twiceboss

CrocodileDundee said:


> For me…4.4mm connection only.


what do u mean by 4.4mm only? is the sonic upgrade from es100 to s1 could be just through its 4.4mm only? the 3.5mm sounds almost the same for both?


----------



## CrocodileDundee

twiceboss said:


> what do u mean by 4.4mm only? is the sonic upgrade from es100 to s1 could be just through its 4.4mm only? the 3.5mm sounds almost the same for both?


Is it that a big upgrade?
By 4.4mm I mean just to have that extra connection is the upgrade.

the sound different in that price range is not that big.


----------



## twiceboss

CrocodileDundee said:


> Is it that a big upgrade?
> By 4.4mm I mean just to have that extra connection is the upgrade.
> 
> the sound different in that price range is not that big.


have u heard es100?


----------



## jithu215

Anyone tried DXD format on s1? Will it work


----------



## Ab10

jithu215 said:


> Got my s1 yesterday. Mediocre is what i can say.


Where do you buy from in India?


----------



## jsmiller58

AlexCBSN said:


> Whoever said that the s1 is better than an n6II, either he’s high or just got hype problems, the n6II is way superior in every way to it, I mean it’s a god damn modulate dap, and power wise it puts the s1 to sleep right away. I can understand getting hyped but still... n6II with any motherboard  (I don’t own e02 thoug) is superior to s1 and ltp w1 (I haven’t tried w2 but still...)


True...  but that’s like saying a Mercedes is mediocre compared to a Ferrari... Both are probably ludicrous comparisons


----------



## touzeen

Ab10 said:


> Where do you buy from in India?


The Audio Store .in


----------



## jithu215

Ab10 said:


> Where do you buy from in India?


I brought from audiostore.in. Later found that it is available on conceptkart.com also which is according to lotoo their authorised dealer. Conceptkart also have 5% welcome offer.


----------



## ZachPtheDude

sebek said:


> However Dragonfly Cobalt is still the most beautiful sound I have tried, at least under € 500. I also prefer it to Chord Mojo.
> 
> I hardly believe that W2 or S1 can somehow beat him. At least in my preferences.



I have a hard time believing that, sincerely

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/08/measurements-dragonflies-audioquest.html?m=1


----------



## waveSounds (Jun 2, 2021)

You have a hard time believing he _subjectively _enjoys the sound of the Cobalt? Measurements are great and all, but if someone enjoys how something sounds then poor measurements or not, they enjoy the sound. When did audio enjoyment become entirely predicated upon objective measurements? Maybe if you're a literal robot... bop boop beep bop.


----------



## snowy8171

key word is "preferences"


----------



## acap13

ZachPtheDude said:


> I have a hard time believing that, sincerely
> 
> http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/08/measurements-dragonflies-audioquest.html?m=1



IKR 😅 Chord Mojo driven by offline/airplane mode devices is one of the best and beautiful sounding portable DAC/Amps. It picks up a lot of RFI/EMI if those set ups are on though not by much but still enough to hinder the dynamics and black background quality of it. Wonder how other portable units such as Paw S1, W2 fare given the same condition.


----------



## Ace Bee

abitdeef said:


> I've tried evey dongle I could get my hands on and the S1 is still at the tops. Earmen sparrow is top notch too, it's got more power and a more foward sound. Btr5 is still very good to me also.
> 
> What I like about the S1 is it has a more natural tonality like the paw 6000, and it's fairly neutral. But the best thing is the staging, to me is really nice. I don't consider sonething like btr5 neutral, it sounds boosted and a bit v shaped- but still really good.
> 
> ...


Did you do this comparison on 3.5mm, or balanced out?


----------



## JimJim

Who updated to latest version? Izzit Paw S1 support max MQAx4?


----------



## Mitr1anton (Jun 9, 2021)

JimJim said:


> Izzit Paw S1 support max MQAx4?



Yes


----------



## CrocodileDundee

Hey guys… how is your experience using the S1 as DAC/Pre?


----------



## KPzypher

Well, purchased the S1 just to hold me over until my non-functioning DAP is being replaced.  Was never interested in dongles, and my only experience with dongles prior to this was the Samsung one that came with the phone.  Had I known dongles can be this good, not sure I would've purchased a DAP.  I don't listen to fullsize HPs on portable gear, so this thing has plenty of juice for any IEMs. The build quality is exceptionaland I love the fact that I don't have to charge it everyday or worry about the battery draining during long stanbys.  I used to own a LPGT and quite liked it.  And that was the only reason I went with the S1 after a light research.

It was an unexpected purchase and I am quite impressed!!  Now, I'm gonna have to try the W2 to see how good dongles can really get.


----------



## WolfP

Hi guys, I have a Dragonfly Red and I would especially like to improve the SQ. I was just thinking of buying the Lotoo S1 or the L&P W1. Would I get a real improvement with these dongles? Which one do you recommend?


----------



## musicday

WolfP said:


> Hi guys, I have a Dragonfly Red and I would especially like to improve the SQ. I was just thinking of buying the Lotoo S1 or the L&P W1. Would I get a real improvement with these dongles? Which one do you recommend?


Between the two get the W1.
If you don't mind spending a bit more get the W2, is the best dongle.


----------



## WolfP

musicday said:


> Between the two get the W1.
> If you don't mind spending a bit more get the W2, is the best dongle.



Thanks for the advice. Could you please explain why the W1 is better?


----------



## Deferenz

I updated the firmware on my S1 to 1.0.0.10 but I don't seem to be able to get MQA playback as it not showing on the S1 when I'm playing MQA tracks on Tidal. 

When I got my S1 it seemed to be on firmware 1.0.0.6. I then went onto Lotto's download area to do the update: https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html

From here it had firmware updates for 1.0.0.7, 1.0.0.8 and 1.0.0.10 and so I went ahead and did the update. However I read through this thread and found some notes on how to update things. One thing that stood out was the following:

To support MQA, Please update 1.0.0.8 then 1.0.0.9 in sequence
1.0.0.8
Update Driver for MQA Support
1.0.0.9
MQA Supported

There was no 1.0.0.9 though on the Lotto website. Is this the reason I am not getting MQA on the S1? I just wondered if anyone can give me some pointers on what I may need to do to sort this out?


----------



## Mitr1anton (Jun 11, 2021)

Deferenz said:


> I just wondered if anyone can give me some pointers on what I may need to do to sort this out?


explain more please. what you use? dap,android phone, Mac, pc? which application you use?
thanks


----------



## Deferenz

Mitr1anton said:


> explain more please. what you use? dap,android phone, Mac, pc? which application you use?
> thanks


I use an iMac. I just went on to the Lotoo site link and downloaded the firmware simply to the downloads file on the Mac. Then I followed the normal instructions to load the firmware on to the S1.


----------



## Lu88

Deferenz said:


> I updated the firmware on my S1 to 1.0.0.10 but I don't seem to be able to get MQA playback as it not showing on the S1 when I'm playing MQA tracks on Tidal.
> 
> When I got my S1 it seemed to be on firmware 1.0.0.6. I then went onto Lotto's download area to do the update: https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html
> 
> ...



> There was no 1.0.0.9 though on the Lotto website. Is this the reason I am not getting MQA on the S1?

No.
Due to some issues, 1.0.0.9 was removed in a few days and replaced with 1.0.0.10. The latest important note is to update to 1.0.0.8 then to 1.0.0.10 in sequence.
(Hold "Fn" key on PAW S1 and connect it to a PC/MAC, and you can see the current firmware version on the display of S1.)

Check your "Passthrough MQA" setting on your Mac Tidal app.

BTW, MQA playback does't work when S1 is connected in UAC1 mode to source device.  And also EFX presets are unavailable during MQA playback on S1.

I hope these help you.


----------



## Deferenz

Lu88 said:


> > There was no 1.0.0.9 though on the Lotto website. Is this the reason I am not getting MQA on the S1?
> 
> No.
> Due to some issues, 1.0.0.9 was removed in a few days and replaced with 1.0.0.10. The latest important note is to update to 1.0.0.8 then to 1.0.0.10 in sequence.
> ...


Thank You!  I found the Passthrough MQA and switched it on. I now have MQA on my S1


----------



## musicday

WolfP said:


> Thanks for the advice. Could you please explain why the W1 is better?


Sorry only have experience with S1 and S2 that I own at the moment.
Forget the W1, just get the S1 if you cannot afford the W2. Forgive the confusion.


----------



## shootertwist (Jun 13, 2021)

WolfP said:


> Hi guys, I have a Dragonfly Red and I would especially like to improve the SQ. I was just thinking of buying the Lotoo S1 or the L&P W1. Would I get a real improvement with these dongles? Which one do you recommend?



I have both dragonfly red and mojo and recently the lotoo paw S1 and its no contest for me, S1 is definitely better than the dfr.   I’m not surprised some people compared this to the mojo. For me too mojo is still the reference when it comes to size=performance and i have bought it thrice in a span of several years as i always come back to it. The mojo though is just transportable and deskbound. As a dongle i‘m surprised how the S1 comes close to the mojo, in fact I even prefer the s1 when using my in-ears shure se846 and UE TF10 (yup classic trusty old gears haha) compared to the mojo. However, when it comes to my hd600 the mojo’s prowess does show and while the s1 can drive the hd600 decently, the mojo’s extra power does show when using the hd 600. Sorry for the long reply. I wish the W1 or W2 was available where i live but i don’t think its currently available.

Also with the price going way up of the W2, might just be better off getting a dedicated dap… for me the price=performance ratio of the S1 is remarkable, and the fact that it works on my iphone 12 pro max with ease using their lightning to usb c cable is just golden, especially now with apple music hi-res lossless. I wonder if they have fixed the “bitrate” not sure if its the right term, i see the s1 showing 192khz or 92khz correctly if using apple music but it seems stuck at 32b


----------



## jwbrent (Jun 13, 2021)

Just ordered the S1, so I’m looking forward to using it with my iPad, iPhone, and Switch. Impressions to follow …


----------



## jwbrent (Jun 13, 2021)

I presume I will need to download the latest firmware, but after visiting Lotoo’s site, I couldn’t find the firmware download. Does the manual provide a link and instructions to do this?

Update: I found a link to the firmware.


----------



## Devodonaldson

jwbrent said:


> Just ordered the S1, so I’m looking forward to using it with my iPad, iPhone, and Switch. Impressions to follow …


I love using with my Switch. Actually,  this is 80% the reason I bought one to use with Final audio vr iems. Wonderful expansive Soundstage MADE for gaming and videos.


----------



## VideoWork

Devodonaldson said:


> I love using with my Switch. Actually,  this is 80% the reason I bought one to use with Final audio vr iems. Wonderful expansive Soundstage MADE for gaming and videos.


Are there delays when watching videos or playing games?


----------



## Devodonaldson

VideoWork said:


> Are there delays when watching videos or playing games?


Delays? No, as it's a wired DAC, AND the iems are wired as well


----------



## Devodonaldson

VideoWork said:


> Are there delays when watching videos or playing games?


Final audio vr3000. They are 3.5mm with mic. Under $100 and amazing for their purpose. Media consumption gaming and video, best to me.


----------



## linknet

Updated the firmware to 1.0.0.10...
Now it only indicates 32b (never 16b or 24b)... Only the first number changes from 44K to 48K...
Does someone has an explanation ?
Thanks.
Ps. Streaming Qobuz Bit perfect through UAPP


----------



## JimJim

Deferenz said:


> I updated the firmware on my S1 to 1.0.0.10 but I don't seem to be able to get MQA playback as it not showing on the S1 when I'm playing MQA tracks on Tidal.
> 
> When I got my S1 it seemed to be on firmware 1.0.0.6. I then went onto Lotto's download area to do the update: https://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html
> 
> ...


Not mistaken it was inside 1.0.0.8 folder the 1.0.0.9 updates


----------



## jwbrent (Jun 16, 2021)

jwbrent said:


> I presume I will need to download the latest firmware, but after visiting Lotoo’s site, I couldn’t find the firmware download. Does the manual provide a link and instructions to do this?
> 
> Update: I found a link to the firmware.



Just received my S1, however, there is no 1.0.0.9 firmware (mqa support) on Lotoo’s site. I even downloaded older versions just to make sure if it was misplaced in another folder.

Not having mqa support is not a big deal, but it may be a big deal when it comes to selling the S1 if I decide to do so in the future. I emailed Andrew to check with Lotoo, but I may be out of luck since there may not be a way to downgrade the firmware so I can upgrade the firmware in the correct sequence.


----------



## jwbrent

I plugged my Shichiku.Kangen in to check out how the S1 sounds using my iPad mini 5 as my source for Radio Paradise, and there was an alert saying the accessory device used too much power and wasn’t compatible. 😳

I unplugged it then plugged it back in and all is good. 👍


----------



## jwbrent

I heard back from Andrew who stated there no longer is the 1.0.0.9 update, that it proved to have problems, so it was replaced with 1.0.0.10 (too bad Lotoo didn’t update its instructions).

I tried again to update my current 1.0.0.10 with 1.0.0.8 to try the firmware process again, didn’t work.

I realize my posts likely have been covered in this thread before, so pardon any redundancy. ✌️


----------



## twister6

jwbrent said:


> I heard back from Andrew who stated there no longer is the 1.0.0.9 update, that it proved to have problems, so it was replaced with 1.0.0.10 (too bad Lotoo didn’t update its instructions).
> 
> I tried again to update my current 1.0.0.10 with 1.0.0.8 to try the firmware process again, didn’t work.
> 
> I realize my posts likely have been covered in this thread before, so pardon any redundancy. ✌️



Yeah, 1.0.0.9 was a bust and they quickly fixed it and released 1.0.0.10

You mentioned above no mqa support, what app are you using?  I posted before here, to get MQA while running Tidal app on Win10, you need to enable MQA Passthrough.  On my Android phone it didn't work using Tidal app until I was told that I need to use UAPP.  There were also replies after my post with people who use iPads and getting it to work.


----------



## jwbrent

jwbrent said:


> I heard back from Andrew who stated there no longer is the 1.0.0.9 update, that it proved to have problems, so it was replaced with 1.0.0.10 (too bad Lotoo didn’t update its instructions).
> 
> I tried again to update my current 1.0.0.10 with 1.0.0.8 to try the firmware process again, didn’t work.
> 
> I realize my posts likely have been covered in this thread before, so pardon any redundancy. ✌️



ok, everything works as it should with mqa support, figured out the issue which was with the Audirvana app reporting. ✌️


----------



## jwbrent

twister6 said:


> Yeah, 1.0.0.9 was a bust and they quickly fixed it and released 1.0.0.10
> 
> You mentioned above no mqa support, what app are you using?  I posted before here, to get MQA while running Tidal app on Win10, you need to enable MQA Passthrough.  On my Android phone it didn't work using Tidal app until I was told that I need to use UAPP.  There were also replies after my post with people who use iPads and getting it to work.



All works now as it should! Thanks for replying. ✌️


----------



## vanez1985

twister6 said:


> Yeah, 1.0.0.9 was a bust and they quickly fixed it and released 1.0.0.10
> 
> You mentioned above no mqa support, what app are you using?  I posted before here, to get MQA while running Tidal app on Win10, you need to enable MQA Passthrough.  On my Android phone it didn't work using Tidal app until I was told that I need to use UAPP.  There were also replies after my post with people who use iPads and getting it to work.


That was exactly the reason why I got sick with flawed Android OS sound subsystem and started using my old iPhone 6s as a player: iOS does not intervent into sound flow and does not force 48 kHz resampling for native streaming apps. Works well with my S1 and W2 now.


----------



## jwbrent

I’ve noticed my S1 is sensitive to RFI that is noticeable during quiet passages of music, and if I cover the chassis with my hand, the static noise disappears.

Has anyone else had this problem?


----------



## jwbrent

jwbrent said:


> I’ve noticed my S1 is sensitive to RFI that is noticeable during quiet passages of music, and if I cover the chassis with my hand, the static noise disappears.
> 
> Has anyone else had this problem?



Just heard back from Andrew and the rfi susceptibility is a known issue with the S1. I imagine if I read through this lengthy thread I would have known about this before my purchase. Next up is trying an rfi choke on the cable …


----------



## mico1964

jwbrent said:


> I’ve noticed my S1 is sensitive to RFI that is noticeable during quiet passages of music, and if I cover the chassis with my hand, the static noise disappears.
> 
> Has anyone else had this problem?


Yes, but only when it is placed directly above or below my iPhone.


----------



## H T T

I am trying to find a pocket-friendly DAC/amp that does not have EMI issues. I guess I need to look other than the S1? Does anybody have recommendations for under $200?


----------



## jwbrent

mico1964 said:


> Yes, but only when it is placed directly above or below my iPhone.



I get the noise even when the S1 is placed laterally to my devices. It’s not a huge issue, but a bit disappointing nevertheless.


----------



## jwbrent

H T T said:


> I am trying to find a pocket-friendly DAC/amp that does not have EMI issues. I guess I need to look other than the S1? Does anybody have recommendations for under $200?



The Luxury & Precision W1 is an option.

I’ll report back whether an rfi choke takes care of the issue on the S1.

Dolby Atmos on Apple Music sounds pretty amazing on newer releases.


----------



## H T T

jwbrent said:


> The Luxury & Precision W1 is an option.
> 
> I’ll report back whether an rfi choke takes care of the issue on the S1.
> 
> Dolby Atmos on Apple Music sounds pretty amazing on newer releases.


Thanks!


----------



## rmkjr (Jun 18, 2021)

I have a W2 coming for the same reason.  Attached to a cellular iPad pro (with both activated cell service and Wi-Fi on) on a longer USB C cable and it seems fine, but the short lightning adapters available connected to an iPhone 12 Pro and the EMI is there and kind of annoying for the money.  Also seems worse with a balanced cable compared to single ended.  So, the S1 is going back once I hear the W2.
Was almost going to get the silicon case and line it with copper tape, but I bet some, or most, of it is coming through the wire.


----------



## H T T (Jun 18, 2021)

rmkjr said:


> I have a W2 coming for the same reason.  Attached to a cellular iPad pro (with both activated cell service and Wi-Fi on) on a longer USB C cable and it seems fine, but the short lightning adapters available connected to an iPhone 12 Pro and the EMI is there and kind of annoying for the money.  Also seems worse with a balanced cable compared to single ended.  So, the S1 is going back once I hear the W2.
> Was almost going to get the silicon case and line it with copper tape, but I bet some, or most, of it is *coming through the wire*.


Hmmmm. Interesting point I did not consider. If that is the case, why the heck aren't the portable dac/amp manufacturers addressing this potential easy fix? Grrrrrr!

Any tips on eliminating EMI on my FiiO Q1 and Q3 or future purchases from other manufacturers would be appreciated.


----------



## jsmiller58

H T T said:


> Hmmmm. Interesting point I did not consider. If that is the case, why the heck aren't the portable dac/amp manufacturers addressing this potential easy fix? Grrrrrr!
> 
> Any tips on eliminating EMI on my FiiO Q1 and Q3 or future purchases from other manufacturers would be appreciated.


I have a theory...  My dongles with EMI interference (including the S1) only have this problem with cellular signals, not Wifi.  If both cellular and Wifi are enabled and you are streaming to your device, it will use the Wifi before cellular.  Devices are designed and tested indoors where there is likely WiFi.  So when developers and testers try the devices they may simply fail to encounter the problem because they are in effect just using WiFi.  Anyway, it is a theory based on my observation that my devices only suffer from this when pulling data over cellular signal, not WiFi.


----------



## jwbrent

rmkjr said:


> I have a W2 coming for the same reason.  Attached to a cellular iPad pro (with both activated cell service and Wi-Fi on) on a longer USB C cable and it seems fine, but the short lightning adapters available connected to an iPhone 12 Pro and the EMI is there and kind of annoying for the money.  Also seems worse with a balanced cable compared to single ended.  So, the S1 is going back once I hear the W2.
> Was almost going to get the silicon case and line it with copper tape, but I bet some, or most, of it is coming through the wire.



I put a TDK RFI choke on the Lotoo lightning cable and that helped quite a bit, not totally eliminating the noise, I’d say 80-90% eliminating it. This was using it balanced. Single-ended, almost no noise at all, perfectly acceptable.


----------



## jwbrent

The one issue I’m having with the Lotoo lightning cable is that often I have to connect/reconnect a couple times for my iPad mini 5 to recognize the S1. 

On to something more positive, the S1 sounds pretty good, so I’m happy about that. I just signed up for the 90 day free trial of Apple Music, and the Dolby Atmos recordings sound amazing, especially with newer albums. 👍


----------



## rmkjr

So, the W2 came in, and surprise twist, it actually has significantly louder transmission of EMI.  A/B'd with an S1, both set to similar volume levels (by listening not by displayed numbers), both on low gain with a Fiio LC4.4B cable attached to a pair of FH5.  I also tested with the W2's lightning cable as well as the Meenova one off Amazon.  It is also definitely the cell radio on the 12 Pro that does it.  I would turn off Wi-Fi, on the W2 I could hear it right away, on the S1 almost none if any (both with something playing and without).  Then run a speedtest and the W2's noise was quite loud, and the S1 was pretty slight (again both with something playing and without).  I then repeated the tests with cellular off and Wi-Fi on, and they were both fairly quiet.

I also noted that the noise was reduced on both by outstretching the USB cable, instead of stacking it behind the phone.  Additionally, the noise changed a ton by moving just the balanced headphone cable to different spots around the phone, which makes me think most of the noise is either post amp somehow, or it's actually coming into the DAC/amp areas through that port, not the USB like I first thought.  I'm really supper new to this sort of stuff, so just some educated went to college for engineering guesses.

I also agree with jwbrent, I only really started noticing this when I moved to a balanced cable (just don't really want to be pushing and pulling MMCXs a ton trying to A/B that).

I also noted the S1 kind of feels better made.  The case feels thicker, it's a bit heavier, and the round metal buttons feel much better than the W2's sharp squared off ones (they almost feel like plastic on the W2).

I honestly couldn't tell the difference between sound on both, and the FH5 clearly don't need the extra power.  That with the price, and the better build, guess that means the S1 is sticking around and it's actually the W2 going back.  And then if the noise bothers me the cellular goes off while listening (not like a DAP would have cellular anyways)

Super not scientific by any means, but just wanted to get an update out there from my experience with them both in case someone was hoping the W2 would solve all their EMI issues for double the price.


----------



## jayaudio116

Just got one. I have a question? So I try to update it however there no root folder and I notice it’s already updated to the 1.007. I created a new root and moved the 1.008 over however nothing happens it stay on Wating and when I re plug it in the folder and the file that I copied over is gone. Anyone has this issue or know how to resolve it


----------



## musicday

jayaudio116 said:


> Just got one. I have a question? So I try to update it however there no root folder and I notice it’s already updated to the 1.007. I created a new root and moved the 1.008 over however nothing happens it stay on Wating and when I re plug it in the folder and the file that I copied over is gone. Anyone has this issue or know how to resolve it


You don't need to create a root folder. Just drag and drop the file inside the stick and then update will start automatically.


----------



## jwbrent




----------



## jwbrent

I commented earlier that the Lotoo lightning cable was picky about connecting to my iPad, but I found out if I wiggle the inserted cable sideways a bit, I can make a connection.


----------



## Kiats

jwbrent said:


>


Excellent taste in IEM, if I may say so myself.


----------



## FenrisAudio

_Just got mine in after being quite underwhelmed by the Hip Dac to use with my V-moda m100 as it was too warm for this headphone and lacked depth(trading it in for alot of warmth)._

Happy to say iam imediately sold on it. None out of the EQ settings only 3 seem to work for my sensibilities and i prefer to use no EQ at all. 

It sounds very neutral, good bass extension but no obvious boost. Clear treble but not noticably bright. I might go as far as calling it a reference style sound profile.

As for my personal test, it passed it with flying colours. Every slayer album sounds great on it wich is a rare feat, even world painted blood and snuff sounded great on it.
Hip dac failed this test as the added warmth masked the guitar.
I haven't tried it with my studio headphones yet but for V-moda its a good match that balances out the bottom heavy sound signature of the m100 that became an inaudible mess with the hip dac.

Not trying to roast the Hip Dac here ofcourse, it just didnt sound good with my music.


----------



## CrocodileDundee (Jun 22, 2021)

rmkjr said:


> So, the W2 came in, and surprise twist, it actually has significantly louder transmission of EMI.  A/B'd with an S1, both set to similar volume levels (by listening not by displayed numbers), both on low gain with a Fiio LC4.4B cable attached to a pair of FH5.  I also tested with the W2's lightning cable as well as the Meenova one off Amazon.  It is also definitely the cell radio on the 12 Pro that does it.  I would turn off Wi-Fi, on the W2 I could hear it right away, on the S1 almost none if any (both with something playing and without).  Then run a speedtest and the W2's noise was quite loud, and the S1 was pretty slight (again both with something playing and without).  I then repeated the tests with cellular off and Wi-Fi on, and they were both fairly quiet.
> 
> I also noted that the noise was reduced on both by outstretching the USB cable, instead of stacking it behind the phone.  Additionally, the noise changed a ton by moving just the balanced headphone cable to different spots around the phone, which makes me think most of the noise is either post amp somehow, or it's actually coming into the DAC/amp areas through that port, not the USB like I first thought.  I'm really supper new to this sort of stuff, so just some educated went to college for engineering guesses.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the inputs. My S1 EMI issues are driving me crazy and I was thinking on the W2. Looks like I will have to find something else. My Fiio BTr5 was dead silent. So for that I will give Fiio a win.


----------



## jwbrent

CrocodileDundee said:


> Thanks for the inputs. My S1 EMI issues are driving me crazy and I was thinking on the W2. Looks like I will have to find something else. My Fiio BTr5 was dead silent. So for that I will give Fiio a win.



I wonder whether the noise you’re hearing is RFI, not EMI which generally occurs when a device is picking up stray radiation from a power supply transformer. I purchased an RFI choke, quite inexpensive, that totally eliminated the noise in my setup:


----------



## H T T

jwbrent said:


> I wonder whether the noise you’re hearing is RFI, not EMI which generally occurs when a device is picking up stray radiation from a power supply transformer. I purchased an RFI choke, quite inexpensive, that totally eliminated the noise in my setup:


Is the RFI choke the gray thingy on the cable to the iPad? Where can you buy an RFI choke?


----------



## McCol

I got the S1 yesterday, using with Samsung S21 Ultra, no noise whatsoever so far after 3 hours use yesterday


----------



## musicday

McCol said:


> I got the S1 yesterday, using with Samsung S21 Ultra, no noise whatsoever so far after 3 hours use yesterday


That's great news for many. Had no issues with the S1 either but I upgraded to W2 and I am very happy.


----------



## McCol

musicday said:


> That's great news for many. Had no issues with the S1 either but I upgraded to W2 and I am very happy.


I'm keen to try the W2 but no uk seller's.  Expensive importing from either USA or China


----------



## povidlo

H T T said:


> Is the RFI choke the gray thingy on the cable to the iPad? Where can you buy an RFI choke?


C$ 3.20 32%OFF | 5 Pcs 5mm Clip-On Ferrite Ring Core Noise Suppressor For EMI RFI Clip Cable Active Components Filters Dropship
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOzQqdF


----------



## H T T

povidlo said:


> C$ 3.20 32%OFF | 5 Pcs 5mm Clip-On Ferrite Ring Core Noise Suppressor For EMI RFI Clip Cable Active Components Filters Dropship
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOzQqdF


Thank you! I just placed my order.


----------



## jwbrent

H T T said:


> Is the RFI choke the gray thingy on the cable to the iPad? Where can you buy an RFI choke?



Amazon and eBay sell chokes, but you have to buy in batches. There is a seller on eBay that sells a lot of 5 for about $5 shipped.


----------



## twister6

jwbrent said:


> Amazon and eBay sell chokes, but you have to buy in batches. There is a seller on eBay that sells a lot of 5 for about $5 shipped.



I just ordered this one, good variety for all cable sizes.


----------



## jwbrent

twister6 said:


> I just ordered this one, good variety for all cable sizes.



yep, they’re handy to have around 👍


----------



## jibberish

So, I made the mistake of not reading the firmware update doc and updated straight from 1.0.0.7 to 1.0.0.10. Now my S1 won't play nice with the Tidal desktop app on my Mac, regardless of whether I'm trying to use MQA or not.  I tried installing the 1.0.0.8 firmware, but nothing happens, the device just says "Waiting".  I'm not sure if maybe the device won't allow downgrades?

Anyone have any ideas on what I can try in order to get the 1.0.0.8 version installed?  Thx.


----------



## CHIACID

jibberish said:


> So, I made the mistake of not reading the firmware update doc and updated straight from 1.0.0.7 to 1.0.0.10. Now my S1 won't play nice with the Tidal desktop app on my Mac, regardless of whether I'm trying to use MQA or not.  I tried installing the 1.0.0.8 firmware, but nothing happens, the device just says "Waiting".  I'm not sure if maybe the device won't allow downgrades?
> 
> Anyone have any ideas on what I can try in order to get the 1.0.0.8 version installed?  Thx.


That is strange. I got my Paw S1 today and it came with firmware 1.0.0.7. When I try to update it to 1.0.0.10 it won't let me, said that there is not enough disk space.
The problem is solved when I first update to 1.0.0.8, then to 1.0.0.10.

Didn't really use Tidal so can't tell what the problem is.


----------



## CHIACID (Jun 25, 2021)

Just join the Paw S1 club today and so far I really like the quality and sound of this dongle.
However I've a few question that I hope to clarify with fellow users here 

First is about the volume:
Currently I'm using IEM Moondrop blessing 2. It is relatively easy to drive IEM, when plug directly to my iphone 6s (using 3.5 SE) I usually listen at around 60-70% of volume.
However when I'm using Paw S1 at low gain, I need to crank up the volume to around 75-80, and high gain at 45-55. It confused me because while I'm reading this thread I came across users that are saying low gain at around 30 is loud enough and even high gain at 1 is too loud.  I guess this is subject to source and what IEM is used but the difference huge there.

Second is about the interference
So far I only used it for few hours but I haven't heard any interference, including commuting and taking train/metro while using cellular data. Also tried putting it in my pocket, back of the phone etc and didn't hear any interference. Could it be newer model have resolve this issue or the firmware update? or this issue will be more obvious using 4.4 balanced? Currently using 3.5mm SE.

Can anyone share their experience on this?

Cheers!


----------



## Luvdac

Just got my lps1. The sound quality blows away the helm bolt I've been using so far. But I did notice some rfi crackling with the 4.4 connection which seems to disappear once I put the note9 in airplane mode.
I think this dongle is a gem. Should easily bring ones phone on par with 600$ stand alone daps. In fact its really close to my Kann with the balanced outputs.


----------



## sanakimpro

Hi all,

Should I get the LTS1 over LPW2? Looking for a portable+tiny dongle dac/amp for evening walks with iPhone 12 Pro Max + IE800. Currently using the Apple $10 dongle for walks and Mojo for sit downs and it sounds pretty good but wanna upgrade. Read through both threads and conclusion seems to be L&P W2> Lotoo PAW S1 and DC03 etc for SQ. Unfortunately W2 still not available in Malaysia so wondering if I should just take the Lotoo PAW S1 and move on.

I like that the LTS1 is half price and in stock but wonder if the 2x price is worth it for SQ? I generally listed to Kpop, female vocalists but reference Daft Punk's RAM, Metallica Black Album, Charli XCX Pop 2, Lana Del Rey and Lorde.

I also don't care about the EQ, filters, MQA etc. Will run it on default low gain for the IE800. However, concerned about the S1's EMI/RFI etc as using iP12PM.

Look forward to your thoughts  LTS1 in my e-cart already just justifying the wallet spend


----------



## rmkjr

sanakimpro said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Should I get the LTS1 over LPW2? Looking for a portable+tiny dongle dac/amp for evening walks with iPhone 12 Pro Max + IE800. Currently using the Apple $10 dongle for walks and Mojo for sit downs and it sounds pretty good but wanna upgrade. Read through both threads and conclusion seems to be L&P W2> Lotoo PAW S1 and DC03 etc for SQ. Unfortunately W2 still not available in Malaysia so wondering if I should just take the Lotoo PAW S1 and move on.
> 
> ...


I really didn’t noticed much difference if any between sound quality on both.  For me, I also found the W2 to have more EMI noise while using my FH5 over balanced on a 12 Pro.  I also thought the S1 was better built.

For me I returned the W2 and kept the S1.


----------



## musicday

sanakimpro said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Should I get the LTS1 over LPW2? Looking for a portable+tiny dongle dac/amp for evening walks with iPhone 12 Pro Max + IE800. Currently using the Apple $10 dongle for walks and Mojo for sit downs and it sounds pretty good but wanna upgrade. Read through both threads and conclusion seems to be L&P W2> Lotoo PAW S1 and DC03 etc for SQ. Unfortunately W2 still not available in Malaysia so wondering if I should just take the Lotoo PAW S1 and move on.
> 
> ...


I had both for a long time. W2 is superior to S1 in any way, more powerful also. If you don't mind no MQA decoding just get the W2 and you will thank me later 
The difference in sound between the two is huge !


----------



## max111 (Jun 28, 2021)

Edited - found the answer to my question


----------



## icemanx

jwbrent said:


> I commented earlier that the Lotoo lightning cable was picky about connecting to my iPad, but I found out if I wiggle the inserted cable sideways a bit, I can make a connection.


Actually i had the same issue. I contacted with Lotoo and they replaced the cable. Now it connects every time without any issue. I highly suggest you to ask for a replacement. Otherwise wiggling the cable may damage the ipad which can be a bitter experience.


----------



## jwbrent

icemanx said:


> Actually i had the same issue. I contacted with Lotoo and they replaced the cable. Now it connects every time without any issue. I highly suggest you to ask for a replacement. Otherwise wiggling the cable may damage the ipad which can be a bitter experience.



Thank you for your reply, I’ll get on it ✌️


----------



## sanakimpro (Jul 4, 2021)

Hi friends,

Just received my S1 and been using it for a bit. Here are my initial thoughts:
1. *Amazing match with my IE800*, everything sounds wider, deeper, fuller (results from proper amplification) and close to Chord Mojo. Keep getting goosebumps relistening to my whole library today 
2. EMI/RFI: This was my biggest worry but thankfully *haven't noticed EMI/RFI from my iPhone 12 Pro Max, laptop etc.* -- unlike Chord Mojo where it was obvious. My batch was made in June 2021 (can post pics later), maybe Lotoo added some interference protection in later versions? I'm also using the Lotoo Lightning to USB cable if that helps
3. In terms of power, *good enough for IEMs but forget about full sized headphones*
    a. I guess I listen on louder side and am using 100% volume on Low Gain, single ended for my IE800 and it's ideal
    b. Subjectively, 100% on low gain is roughly 70% High Gain
    c. I tried the high gain 100% single ended on DT770 Pro 80 ohm, HD600 300 ohms and wasn't impressed. It gets sufficiently loud but not properly amped when compared to Chord Mojo/O2 dac/amp.

Overall, *very happy with the purchase in terms of usability, stability, SQ for IEMs* etc but you need to set expectations about driving full sized headphones.

Thoughts vs L&P W2:
I haven't tried it but *will only consider it if you really need more power for harder to drive IEMs*. Consensus is W2 is a more neutral and detailed source with more power output ceiling (125mW for W2 vs 70mW for S1, single ended), but with the S1 already having a bit of headroom for IEMs, I think I made the right choice with a slightly warm source for half the price. For full-sized headphones, full sized DAPs/desktop amps should be the way to go.

Disclaimer: I am mostly using the single-ended output and only balanced for AKT8ie mk II and use 44.1kHz/32bit output from imported Apple Music tracks and Spotify Very High. I am not using Tidal MQA or other DSD features so can't comment on those.

Hope this helps anyone trying to decide. Let me know if you have any questions. Cheers! 

Update after additional use:: There seems to be a bit of EMI/RFI when I used the ddHifi TC28i + Lotoo's USB-C to USB-C cable but not when using Lotoo's OG Lightning to USB-C. Something to watch out for.



sanakimpro said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Should I get the LTS1 over LPW2? Looking for a portable+tiny dongle dac/amp for evening walks with iPhone 12 Pro Max + IE800. Currently using the Apple $10 dongle for walks and Mojo for sit downs and it sounds pretty good but wanna upgrade. Read through both threads and conclusion seems to be L&P W2> Lotoo PAW S1 and DC03 etc for SQ. Unfortunately W2 still not available in Malaysia so wondering if I should just take the Lotoo PAW S1 and move on.
> 
> ...


----------



## touzeen

I had a few experiences with EMI noise when I first got the S1.
I purchased a Ferrite Core and no such noise since the last 1 week I have been using it.


----------



## shootertwist

Any apple music beta users here on android? It now has lossless for android. Reason i asked is i know android phones downsample the bitrate even on an external dac unless you use uapp app. However just recently i tried my paw s1 on my s21 ultra running apple music beta and lossless/ hi-res lossless bitrates are being indicated on the paw s1, does this mean its bypassing the android default setting? Thanks in advance


----------



## hibi (Jul 4, 2021)

shootertwist said:


> Any apple music beta users here on android? It now has lossless for android. Reason i asked is i know android phones downsample the bitrate even on an external dac unless you use uapp app. However just recently i tried my paw s1 on my s21 ultra running apple music beta and lossless/ hi-res lossless bitrates are being indicated on the paw s1, does this mean its bypassing the android default setting? Thanks in advance


Unfortunately, You can't bypass this android issue. Android always resamples bit rate and frequency to 24bit/48kHz. Using the UAPP app is the only way to go. However, using higher bit rates than aforementioned for regular listening is absolutely pointless. You won't be able to spot any differences between 24/48 and 24/192 or higher (look for the evidence and expertise). You would have to turn the volume at the level of 140-150 dB what would result in complete hearing loss lol  Actually, finding any differences between CD quality (16/44.1) and 24/48 is almost impossible too. The proper mastering, not bitrates define detectable sound quality features.


----------



## jwbrent

hibi said:


> Unfortunately, You can't bypass this android issue. Android always resamples bit rate and frequency to 24bit/48kHz. Using the UAPP app is the only way to go. However, using higher bit rates than aforementioned for regular listening is absolutely pointless. You won't be able to spot any differences between 24/48 and 24/192 or higher (look for the evidence and expertise). You would have to turn the volume at the level of 140-150 dB what would result in complete hearing loss lol  Actually, finding any differences between CD quality (16/44.1) and 24/48 is almost impossible too. The proper mastering, not bitrates define detectable sound quality features.



I tend to agree with the ability to differentiate between, let’s say, 24/48 vs 24/192 using headphones. The differences are much more noticeable on a high quality speaker system, but it does take a practiced ear. Since many of the hi res titles are re-mastered, this likely is the reason for any sonic difference using hi res files with headphones. ✌️


----------



## rlw6534

shootertwist said:


> Any apple music beta users here on android? It now has lossless for android. Reason i asked is i know android phones downsample the bitrate even on an external dac unless you use uapp app. However just recently i tried my paw s1 on my s21 ultra running apple music beta and lossless/ hi-res lossless bitrates are being indicated on the paw s1, does this mean its bypassing the android default setting? Thanks in advance



Most android phones resample to 24/48 over USB, but not all, especially recent devices with latest Android.  If your USB DAC is showing the the original sample rate then your phone isn't resampling.  That's a good thing.


----------



## Kiats

Just got this as a kind belated birthday present from the kind folks at JabenSG. 🙏


----------



## jwbrent

Kiats said:


> Just got this as a kind belated birthday present from the kind folks at JabenSG. 🙏



Congrats, I’m quite happy with the one I purchased recently. How do you like the leather case?


----------



## Kiats

jwbrent said:


> Congrats, I’m quite happy with the one I purchased recently. How do you like the leather case?


It's nifty and well thought out. Especially the back pocket for the OTG cable


----------



## kharishr

Apart from uapp, the new hiby music app also does bit perfect on android to the USB dac. And it claims to support full mqa also via tidal login on the same app.


----------



## Kiats

Was using my iPhone as a Roon endpoint. MQA worked as well.


----------



## jwbrent

icemanx said:


> Actually i had the same issue. I contacted with Lotoo and they replaced the cable. Now it connects every time without any issue. I highly suggest you to ask for a replacement. Otherwise wiggling the cable may damage the ipad which can be a bitter experience.



Thanks again for commenting on the Lotoo lightning cable; I received my replacement earlier today and it works perfectly from the first attempted connection to several more just to ensure it worked. ✌️


----------



## Gus141

I just posted a gushing comment on the W2 thread praising that dongle; but, I also mentioned there I was preferring the S1 with my iPhone 12 Mini. For those following both threads I did want to mention one problem with S1 though: I do have some EMI/RFI(?) interference with S1 connected to my iPhone or iPad if I have the S1 very close to the device. In other words, I can’t velcro the S1 to the iPhone or iPad, I have to let the “dongle dangle” (that’s a fun phrase) and not let the S1 touch the device or get within about a half-inch, otherwise I get interference (mostly clicks and buzzes). 

If I move the S1 a half-inch away from the iPhone or iPad: no interference.

The W2, does not have any interference for me on the same devices with the same cables no matter how close.

Since this is an S1 thread (and not a W2 one), I will say that I’m posting here because even though I mainly listen through the W2, I still prefer the S1 vs the W2 when using my iPhone 12 Mini, mainly due to power reasons,  and you should know the EMI/RFI issue is real but avoidable (and honestly, not that noticeable when music is playing). So if your use case is mostly via an iPhone, be aware there may be EMI/RFI, but it is manageable. 

Cheers,
Gus


----------



## icemanx

jwbrent said:


> Thanks again for commenting on the Lotoo lightning cable; I received my replacement earlier today and it works perfectly from the first attempted connection to several more just to ensure it worked. ✌️


That's great news! I'm glad that I could help. Enjoy!


----------



## jwbrent (Jul 8, 2021)

Gus141 said:


> I just posted a gushing comment on the W2 thread praising that dongle; but, I also mentioned there I was preferring the S1 with my iPhone 12 Mini. For those following both threads I did want to mention one problem with S1 though: I do have some EMI/RFI(?) interference with S1 connected to my iPhone or iPad if I have the S1 very close to the device. In other words, I can’t velcro the S1 to the iPhone or iPad, I have to let the “dongle dangle” (that’s a fun phrase) and not let the S1 touch the device or get within about a half-inch, otherwise I get interference (mostly clicks and buzzes).
> 
> If I move the S1 a half-inch away from the iPhone or iPad: no interference.
> 
> ...



Hey Gus,

Thanks for your post about the S1. I found the cable can act as an antenna and pick up rfi from one’s device, so using an inexpensive RFI choke on the cable can solve this issue as well. ✌️


----------



## sanakimpro

Gus141 said:


> I just posted a gushing comment on the W2 thread praising that dongle; but, I also mentioned there I was preferring the S1 with my iPhone 12 Mini. For those following both threads I did want to mention one problem with S1 though: I do have some EMI/RFI(?) interference with S1 connected to my iPhone or iPad if I have the S1 very close to the device. In other words, I can’t velcro the S1 to the iPhone or iPad, I have to let the “dongle dangle” (that’s a fun phrase) and not let the S1 touch the device or get within about a half-inch, otherwise I get interference (mostly clicks and buzzes).
> 
> If I move the S1 a half-inch away from the iPhone or iPad: no interference.
> 
> ...


@Gus141, Interesting that you had EMI/RFI with yours. I received mine two weeks ago (MFG date Jun 2021) and so far had no issues when using iPhone 12 and 12 Pro Max with S1 using Lotoo's orignal Lightning to USB-C cable. I also had no issues when using a generic (Energea) USB-A to USB-C when connecting with my Thinkpad laptop.

However, I did hear the interference when using ddHifi's Lightning to C (TC28i) + Lotoo's C-to-C cable so not sure if it was the TC28i or the cable inducing the interference. In any case, the RF choke idea should hopefully solve this.

So far I am still loving the IE800 + S1 pairing. Insane stage depth and height, instrument separation/presentation, detail revival etc that makes me question how I used to connect it directly to my Samsung S7E and iPhone dongle for most of last two years. I have W2 incoming and the look forward to the difference but S1 has set a damn high bar for me. Caveat is it doesn't sound so great on my AKT8ie MK II with ddHifi 2.5mm->4.4mm jack. Everything sounds too bass forward and congested vs the IE800 pairing.

Honestly, if I didn't read through the whole 200+ h-f forum pages of hype on W2, I would have been super happy with S1+IE800 anyway. Now I dread W2 may not live up to the hype


----------



## mayurs (Jul 9, 2021)

Got my S1 and it works very well on my 4th gen Ipad Air and Windows 10 laptop. But it has distorted sound on my Android 10 device.

My primary iem is the CFA Andromeda 2020 and the sound out of the 4.4 balanced is very good but not as good as my DX160 out on balanced. Overall pretty pleased with the S1, though have to try some more Android devices to find out if the issue is with my S1 or the Android device.


----------



## saj2001ind

sanakimpro said:


> @Gus141, Interesting that you had EMI/RFI with yours. I received mine two weeks ago (MFG date Jun 2021) and so far had no issues when using iPhone 12 and 12 Pro Max with S1 using Lotoo's orignal Lightning to USB-C cable. I also had no issues when using a generic (Energea) USB-A to USB-C when connecting with my Thinkpad laptop.
> 
> However, I did hear the interference when using ddHifi's Lightning to C (TC28i) + Lotoo's C-to-C cable so not sure if it was the TC28i or the cable inducing the interference. In any case, the RF choke idea should hopefully solve this.
> 
> ...


I absolutely agree with you experience on IE800 + S1 pairing, I am using the same and it sounds superb…

however I also tried sennheiser hd660s with 3.5mm out and with high gain Upto 80 volume the sound is good but I feel it lacks the airy top end which I get a lot and spoilt by the IE800, bass and mids on HD660s is fine though with S1…does it means it’s not being properly amped or it’s how the sound signature of HD660s is ? I recently got HD660s so have not much experience on its sound signature though.

hows your experience with higher impedance headphones close to 150 ohms like HD 660s?

also how’s will it pair with hifiman  Sundara which I am planning to get as well…

overall I am very impressed with S1 I just wished it was a bit less bulky and smaller compared to shanling U2 which I also have


----------



## sanakimpro

saj2001ind said:


> I absolutely agree with you experience on IE800 + S1 pairing, I am using the same and it sounds superb…
> 
> however I also tried sennheiser hd660s with 3.5mm out and with high gain Upto 80 volume the sound is good but I feel it lacks the airy top end which I get a lot and spoilt by the IE800, bass and mids on HD660s is fine though with S1…does it means it’s not being properly amped or it’s how the sound signature of HD660s is ? I recently got HD660s so have not much experience on its sound signature though.
> 
> ...


Hi Saj,

I say no go for anything about 32 ohms. HD660s have 150 ohm impedance and S1 won't have sufficient power headroom imo (at least on single ended). I don't have a balanced full sized headphone to test the balanced out power but for single ended, based on my DT770 pro / 80 ohms and HD600/300 ohms, S1 works and is loud enough but both are underpowered (YMMV). This is in contrast to using the HD600 with Chord Mojo and O2/ODAC amp where it's properly driven. 

Based on online reviews, I would recommend you look at iFi Zen DAC/CAN or Schiit Magni 3 etc instead of going dongle route. There's the Luxury & Precision W2 dongle but I'm not convinced it will be enough for high impedance full-sized high headphones either. However, mine is still en route and stuck somewhere in China  Happy to report back when I get it in 2-3 weeks. Sorry, can't comment on Sundara as I don't have those.

To be honest, I'm happy with the IE800+S1 that my flagship Beyer T1 OG and HD600 are in their boxes. Edge cases for S1 are classical music, philharmonic orchestras with high dynamic range, older tracks mixed at lower volumes and general Youtube videos are where I put S1 at 100 High Gain on IE800 just to get good volume. And that's why I am trying out the W2.


----------



## kharishr

Any body using this to android tv. I tried this on mi box 4k via USB hub. It's working fine on uapp but once I exit from it YouTube is hanging untill I reboot the mi box or re connect the lotoo paw S1.


----------



## WolfP

Hi all, 
I'm testing the S1 + smartphone android + UAPP. Listening flac stored on smartphone, no streaming. Can anyone recommend me the best settings for UAPP ? Many thanks...


----------



## kharishr

WolfP said:


> Hi all,
> I'm testing the S1 + smartphone android + UAPP. Listening flac stored on smartphone, no streaming. Can anyone recommend me the best settings for UAPP ? Many thanks...


Does the uapp pop up asking to use S1 when connecting


----------



## WolfP

kharishr said:


> Does the uapp pop up asking to use S1 when connecting


Yes....so what?


----------



## kharishr

WolfP said:


> Yes....so what?


Ok I was just checking if uapp has detected the dongle or not.
 Then select settings->usb audio-> bit perfect-> on. That should do.


----------



## WolfP

kharishr said:


> Ok I was just checking if uapp has detected the dongle or not.
> Then select settings->usb audio-> bit perfect-> on. That should do.


That's all ?


----------



## fljoe

WolfP said:


> That's all ?


In addition, I have the following recommended settings from the LG V30 tip/tricks post here on head-fi ... I do use a LG V30+ and LG V40.
*Recommended Settings:*
Under "Settings"->"Internal audio driver", select "HiRes Direct Driver".
Under "Settings"->"HiRes Audio"->"HiRes driver flags", toggle on "Direct PCM" and "MQA". N.B. If your V30 is running Oreo or Pie (Android 8 or 9), you only need to turn on the "MQA" option here.
Under "Settings"->"HiRes driver audio format", leave this option as "Auto".
Under "Settings"->"HiRes Audio"->"Buffer Size", I recommend using a 600 millisecond buffer length.
One recommendation though - when using UAPP to drive an external DAC, you might need to increase the buffer size in "Settings->USB Audio Tweaks" beyond the default. I find 8192 frames works well.)


----------



## WolfP

fljoe said:


> In addition, I have the following recommended settings from the LG V30 tip/tricks post here on head-fi ... I do use a LG V30+ and LG V40.
> *Recommended Settings:*
> Under "Settings"->"Internal audio driver", select "HiRes Direct Driver".
> Under "Settings"->"HiRes Audio"->"HiRes driver flags", toggle on "Direct PCM" and "MQA". N.B. If your V30 is running Oreo or Pie (Android 8 or 9), you only need to turn on the "MQA" option here.
> ...


Many thanks for the recommended settings....I'll try them. But I use a Samsung smartphone (Android 11).


----------



## Shashank619 (Jul 20, 2021)

Is this me or anyone else facing this issue on paw s1? While playing any high res lossless song through my lg g7 lets say - 24 bit 196khz but my device shows 48khz/16bit all the time. Am I missing something?
Even if the file says 24 bit my dac shows 32 bit. Lol which is quite impossible I know, but this is what am facing.
Tried playing through apple music and even downloaded flac song.


----------



## jsmiller58

Shashank619 said:


> Is this me or anyone else facing this issue on paw s1? While playing any high res lossless song through my lg g7 lets say - 24 bit 196khz but my device shows 48khz/16bit all the time. Am I missing something?
> Even if the file says 24 bit my dac shows 32 bit. Lol which is quite impossible I know, but this is what am facing.
> Tried playing through apple music and even downloaded flac song.


I don’t know about the first question.  However, I think the second was answered previously as likely being 0s appended to the upper 8 bits, so no impact to the audio as there is no information there.


----------



## jwbrent

Shashank619 said:


> Is this me or anyone else facing this issue on paw s1? While playing any high res lossless song through my lg g7 lets say - 24 bit 196khz but my device shows 48khz/16bit all the time. Am I missing something?
> Even if the file says 24 bit my dac shows 32 bit. Lol which is quite impossible I know, but this is what am facing.
> Tried playing through apple music and even downloaded flac song.



Android phones generally do not support hi-res audio unless you use the USB Audio Player Pro app to correct for this. Regarding the bit depth, I believe the S1 upscales all files to 32 bit, at least I’ve seen other DACs do the same.


----------



## brianfromspace

Hi guys, i just bought the PAW S1 but have many problems when using it in my pocket with my iPhone. Connection is not very stable of the cable, its a mechanical issue, cause when I jiggle it a bit it finds connection again. Tested this on my Macbook, same issue but happens less.

Is this a case of a poor cable quality that they use? The problem is always on the side of the PAW USB-C-side.


----------



## fljoe

brianfromspace said:


> Hi guys, i just bought the PAW S1 but have many problems when using it in my pocket with my iPhone. Connection is not very stable of the cable, its a mechanical issue, cause when I jiggle it a bit it finds connection again. Tested this on my Macbook, same issue but happens less.
> 
> Is this a case of a poor cable quality that they use? The problem is always on the side of the PAW USB-C-side.


I've had issues too .. it is the cable .. couple other ones I have ... no issues:
1. Meenova USB-C to lightning
2. ddHiFi MFi06 Lightning to Type-C Data cable


----------



## jwbrent

brianfromspace said:


> Hi guys, i just bought the PAW S1 but have many problems when using it in my pocket with my iPhone. Connection is not very stable of the cable, its a mechanical issue, cause when I jiggle it a bit it finds connection again. Tested this on my Macbook, same issue but happens less.
> 
> Is this a case of a poor cable quality that they use? The problem is always on the side of the PAW USB-C-side.



I had an issue with the lightning cable with failed connections and had it replaced under warranty, no problems since. Unless you want to experiment with others, have it replaced. ✌️


----------



## CHIACID

brianfromspace said:


> Hi guys, i just bought the PAW S1 but have many problems when using it in my pocket with my iPhone. Connection is not very stable of the cable, its a mechanical issue, cause when I jiggle it a bit it finds connection again. Tested this on my Macbook, same issue but happens less.
> 
> Is this a case of a poor cable quality that they use? The problem is always on the side of the PAW USB-C-side.


In my case the cable that came with Paw S1 is a HUGE disappointment. Within a couple week of use, even without walking with it in the pocket that much, a slight pinch or twist can cut off the connection. Ordered a right angle USB-C to lightning cable from Woo audio, feel really sturdy, but a bit stiff. Works great so far.








By the way, does anyone have better idea to somehow 'attached' Paw S1 or other similar dongles back of the phone? Feel like Velcro doesn't really work because the body of Paw S1 is slightly curve. I'm currently using elastic band that clip into the case for temporary solution.


----------



## Devodonaldson

CHIACID said:


> In my case the cable that came with Paw S1 is a HUGE disappointment. Within a couple week of use, even without walking with it in the pocket that much, a slight pinch or twist can cut off the connection. Ordered a right angle USB-C to lightning cable from Woo audio, feel really sturdy, but a bit stiff. Works great so far.
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, does anyone have better idea to somehow 'attached' Paw S1 or other similar dongles back of the phone? Feel like Velcro doesn't really work because the body of Paw S1 is slightly curve. I'm currently using elastic band that clip into the case for temporary solution.


Even with the curve, dual lock will hold well enough. Heavy duty dual lock will absolutely work, even with a small strip on the S1. Much stronger than velcro, and won't grip/rip clothes or other fabrics


----------



## saltyfr0g

fljoe said:


> I've had issues too .. it is the cable .. couple other ones I have ... no issues:
> 1. Meenova USB-C to lightning
> 2. ddHiFi MFi06 Lightning to Type-C Data cable


It’s a darn shame Apple stubbornly avoided using the USB-C port on their iPhone like all other premium cell phones. Even worse, it’s rumored the next generation iPhones will be completely portless, aside from the SIM card port. +1 on that ddHiFi cable though. That’s what I use and it’s been the most reliable so far.


----------



## jwbrent

CHIACID said:


> In my case the cable that came with Paw S1 is a HUGE disappointment. Within a couple week of use, even without walking with it in the pocket that much, a slight pinch or twist can cut off the connection. Ordered a right angle USB-C to lightning cable from Woo audio, feel really sturdy, but a bit stiff. Works great so far.
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, does anyone have better idea to somehow 'attached' Paw S1 or other similar dongles back of the phone? Feel like Velcro doesn't really work because the body of Paw S1 is slightly curve. I'm currently using elastic band that clip into the case for temporary solution.



This looks like it might work fine …

I used something similar and the locking nature is much stronger than the equivalently sized velcro strip.


----------



## brianfromspace

Thanks everyone for the replies. I think I will go with one of the options of @fljoe. This is so disappointing when a company delivers great sound but poor user ability. Shame on them. Not feeling like putting effort in emailing with customer services. I have tried another PAW today, same issues...


----------



## jwbrent

brianfromspace said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies. I think I will go with one of the options of @fljoe. This is so disappointing when a company delivers great sound but poor user ability. Shame on them. Not feeling like putting effort in emailing with customer services. I have tried another PAW today, same issues...



The issue is the cable on the S1, not the unit itself. I’ve read several posts about the Lotoo cable not working correctly then working perfectly fine after replacement. Lotoo’s supplier must have sent them a bad batch.


----------



## jwbrent

I forgot to mention my dealer didn’t want the bad cable back when he sent me a brand new one.


----------



## jsmiller58

It’s more than just the S1 and S1 cable that have the flimsy connection problem.  This is unfortunately an issue with many dongles, both usb c and lightning.  I have quite a few dongles (9038s, S1, S8, S9, W2, just to name some of them), and can confirm this issue.  Right angle connectors help, but in the end you need to minimize any jostling of the connector.  Or, go for a BT option, like Qudelix 5K or FiiO BTR5….


----------



## Shashank619

jwbrent said:


> Android phones generally do not support hi-res audio unless you use the USB Audio Player Pro app to correct for this. Regarding the bit depth, I believe the S1 upscales all files to 32 bit, at least I’ve seen other DACs do the same.


I am playing on UAPP through tidal. I noticed this issue was not earlier as far as I can remember, but facing it now. Dont know why all the 16 bit and 24 bit songs are upscaled to 32 bit.


----------



## jwbrent

Shashank619 said:


> I am playing on UAPP through tidal. I noticed this issue was not earlier as far as I can remember, but facing it now. Dont know why all the 16 bit and 24 bit songs are upscaled to 32 bit.



Sorry, I don’t use Tidal, so other than checking its settings, I don’t know why you’re having trouble getting hi-res. As mentioned, many DACs upsample to 32 bit.


----------



## Kiats

jsmiller58 said:


> It’s more than just the S1 and S1 cable that have the flimsy connection problem.  This is unfortunately an issue with many dongles, both usb c and lightning.  I have quite a few dongles (9038s, S1, S8, S9, W2, just to name some of them), and can confirm this issue.  Right angle connectors help, but in the end you need to minimize any jostling of the connector.  Or, go for a BT option, like Qudelix 5K or FiiO BTR5….



Agree. I suspect it has something to do with the fact that many of them are so short, stiff and as a result subject to much bending at sharp angles. The stress placed on the cables therefore don’t help.


----------



## H T T

After a few weeks of A/B-ing the FiiO Q3 is superior to the S1 in the bass and mids. I love the S1, but the Q3 is better for anyting other then on-the go. Facts are facts.For $ per value, the Q3 is the king. If you are looking for "in-the-pocket, then the S1 is a quite  attractable option. YMMV.

 I see no need for the L&P W2 when the S1 is competent for form factor and the Q3 ia ao competent with SQ. Yes, the Q3 is that good. Try the Q3 before jumping to conclusions.


----------



## musicday

H T T said:


> After a few weeks of A/B-ing the FiiO Q3 is superior to the S1 in the bass and mids. I love the S1, but the Q3 is better for anyting other then on-the go. Facts are facts.For $ per value, the Q3 is the king. If you are looking for "in-the-pocket, then the S1 is a quite  attractable option. YMMV.
> 
> I see no need for the L&P W2 when the S1 is competent for form factor and the Q3 ia ao competent with SQ. Yes, the Q3 is that good. Try the Q3 before jumping to conclusions.


You need to try the L&P W2 if you haven't !!


----------



## bmoregnr (Jul 26, 2021)

Shashank619 said:


> I am playing on UAPP through tidal. I noticed this issue was not earlier as far as I can remember, but facing it now. Dont know why all the 16 bit and 24 bit songs are upscaled to 32 bit.


I believe it upsamples to 32 bit for the digital volume, then as you attenuate you don't go below 24 bits or more likely 16 bits and so can keep it mostly bit perfect.  This is pretty common I believe, just that other digital volume setups likely don't show you the upsampled bit rate.  Here is a little write-up if interested https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/digital-volume-controls/


----------



## Ab10

As the tidal native android app now detecting the MQA only DAC - Can anybody confirm that PAW S1 was detected by the Tidal Native Andriod App? As app bypass the Andriod Volume Stack - Sound output is the same as UAPP for PAW S1 ?


----------



## waveSounds

Might just be an issue with my S1 but when choosing to let the Tidal app access the DAC the sample rate and bit depth, and all other things like MQA, are displayed properly but the sound is entirely messed up. No problems using via UAPP. Latest firmware on the S1. Doesn't happen with any other DAC either. Anyone else tried?


----------



## Devodonaldson

waveSounds said:


> Might just be an issue with my S1 but when choosing to let the Tidal app access the DAC the sample rate and bit depth, and all other things like MQA, are displayed properly but the sound is entirely messed up. No problems using via UAPP. Latest firmware on the S1. Doesn't happen with any other DAC either. Anyone else tried?


Same with S1


----------



## AlexCBSN

waveSounds said:


> Might just be an issue with my S1 but when choosing to let the Tidal app access the DAC the sample rate and bit depth, and all other things like MQA, are displayed properly but the sound is entirely messed up. No problems using via UAPP. Latest firmware on the S1. Doesn't happen with any other DAC either. Anyone else tried?


Same


----------



## mayurs (Jul 29, 2021)

waveSounds said:


> Might just be an issue with my S1 but when choosing to let the Tidal app access the DAC the sample rate and bit depth, and all other things like MQA, are displayed properly but the sound is entirely messed up. No problems using via UAPP. Latest firmware on the S1. Doesn't happen with any other DAC either. Anyone else tried?


I  had a similar distorted sound  out of my S1 And I thought its a problem with my Android phone and just ignored it as the S1 works perfectly with my Ipad air and Windows laptop.


----------



## waveSounds

As far as I can tell, it _is_ limited to Android when allowing the native Tidal app access to the S1 when prompted. Not something that's going to cause me to lose any sleep over it, but still, it would be nice if it worked for those times when you want/need to listen offline...


----------



## Gus141

I was testing out iOS 15 Public Beta on an iPhone 12 Mini to use the new function “Spatialize Stereo”. This isn’t their heavily touted new ATMOS or Spatial Audio stuff; rather, it’s supposed to do some DSP magic to plain old stereo and make it sound like it’s coming from speakers. I didn’t know what to expect, so playing around with it I found it sounded very similar to the S1’s “Farfield” ATE preset. For me, the S1‘s ”Nearfield” and “Farfield” presets are usefull as a kind of Crossfeed-Low and Crossfeed-High DSP respectively. So if you are used to some crossfeed on old stereo mixes with large left-right channel separation (which to me just sounds weird with IEMs), try the Nearfield and Farfield presets on the S1.

And when iOS 15 comes out, if you have recent Airpods (Pro/Max) or Beats [it only works with Apple wireless phones], then remember the “Spatialize Stereo” setting behind the volume slider in the control panel, for those times when you want a little crossfeed. I’ve come to rely on quick access to crossfeed since I have a remote button programmed to toggle Crossfeed-2 on/off on my RME ADI-2 DAC desktop setup.

Cheers,
Gus


----------



## Sluggist

This will be a bit silly...  But do you guys reckon that it's safe if I use the lotoo paw s1's 4.4 headphone out as a "line-out" and connect to the 4.4 line in port of the ifi Zen Can ? I'm a bit clueless when it comes to balanced anything, so I just want to be sure.


----------



## Devodonaldson

Yes it's safe. To prevent clipping I would keep the s1 volume about 70 to 80 percent.


----------



## Sluggist

Devodonaldson said:


> Yes it's safe. To prevent clipping I would keep the s1 volume about 70 to 80 percent.


Thanks


----------



## kemba1291

Anyone here managed to get the PAW S1 working with Tidal bit perfect on android? Maybe a different firmware? My hidizs sonata HD dac cable froze the tidal app completely, so I wanted to be sure before spending money on a new DAC.


----------



## waveSounds

@kemba1291 Afraid not. A few of us have reported that we have issues when allowing Tidal to access the DAC through the app. It only seems to be a problem with the S1, works fine with my Meridian Explorer 2 and the Apple Dongle. I was going to email Lotoo about it but never got around to it. Maybe if someone less lazy made them aware (if they're not already) of it they may fix things in a future update.


----------



## kemba1291

waveSounds said:


> @kemba1291 Afraid not. A few of us have reported that we have issues when allowing Tidal to access the DAC through the app. It only seems to be a problem with the S1, works fine with my Meridian Explorer 2 and the Apple Dongle. I was going to email Lotoo about it but never got around to it. Maybe if someone less lazy made them aware (if they're not already) of it they may fix things in a future update.


That's too bad, I was pretty sold on the S1. I actually had a hidizs sonata hd cable, but it completely freezes the tidal app when given usb audio access. I have sent a mail to Tidal for more information regarding this, guess I'll shoot one to Lotoo as well. I just hope they respond to english mails, the entire website is in chinese.


----------



## twister6

kemba1291 said:


> Anyone here managed to get the PAW S1 working with Tidal bit perfect on android? Maybe a different firmware? My hidizs sonata HD dac cable froze the tidal app completely, so I wanted to be sure before spending money on a new DAC.



I thought you need UAPP for that, to access Tidal through it.


----------



## tasdisr

Sorry if this has been asked already, I did not find the answer when I did a search. When I try to update my S1 and I drop the file to the S1 the unit just continues to just say waiting. I noticed that the file is listed as a document file. Is that correct?

Thanks


----------



## kemba1291

twister6 said:


> I thought you need UAPP for that, to access Tidal through it.


Normally, yes. But tidal has released updates that support bit perfect playback. Read here : https://darko.audio/2021/07/tidal-is-quietly-rolling-out-a-bit-perfect-android-app/


----------



## tasdisr

tasdisr said:


> Sorry if this has been asked already, I did not find the answer when I did a search. When I try to update my S1 and I drop the file to the S1 the unit just continues to just say waiting. I noticed that the file is listed as a document file. Is that correct?
> 
> Thanks


Got this figured out with some help from Andrew at MusicTeck.


----------



## Dirox

Is anyone else here also experiencing this lag/delay sound in the beginning of a song when playing MQA files?
I'm using the latest firmware (1.0.0.10) and the issue happens for both, the Tidal app using Windows and UAPP on my Android phone.
I cannot really find any other people complaining about this issue here, so I'm starting to wonder if I might have a faulty device.

I'm really liking the sound of the paw s1. But having this delay/lag sound really drives me crazy and I'm thinking of returning my unit.
Any advice here would be much appreciated!


----------



## Deferenz

Dirox said:


> Is anyone else here also experiencing this lag/delay sound in the beginning of a song when playing MQA files?
> I'm using the latest firmware (1.0.0.10) and the issue happens for both, the Tidal app using Windows and UAPP on my Android phone.
> I cannot really find any other people complaining about this issue here, so I'm starting to wonder if I might have a faulty device.
> 
> ...


If this is what I think you are describing then it has been an issue for some time and it is not just the S1 it happens to. I had it on the Cayin N6ii and the Hiby R8 also. There were discussions on this lag/delay over on the Cayin N6ii thread by a few users. Although possible causes were discussed it didn’t help fix the issue to my knowledge. Probably worth a quick read on that Cayin thread to see if it is the same issue you are having.


----------



## Dirox

Deferenz said:


> If this is what I think you are describing then it has been an issue for some time and it is not just the S1 it happens to. I had it on the Cayin N6ii and the Hiby R8 also. There were discussions on this lag/delay over on the Cayin N6ii thread by a few users. Although possible causes were discussed it didn’t help fix the issue to my knowledge. Probably worth a quick read on that Cayin thread to see if it is the same issue you are having.


Just had a read on the Cayin thread and can confirm that it's exactly the same issue.
- it's does not happen all the time, but very often (60-80%)
- it especially happens, when manually choosing song or also when pausing and then starting a song again
- if i just let songs finish and the next one starts automatically, it is often not an issue

I was also in contact with Lotoo on Facebook, but that did not really help a lot. They are aware of this lag sound especially on Android after a FW update of Tidal.
So I could wait and hope that a new FW update for the paw s1 will solve this issue. But guess returning the unit makes more sense here...

Thanks for your reply on this!


----------



## WareZ (Aug 19, 2021)

CHIACID said:


> In my case the cable that came with Paw S1 is a HUGE disappointment. Within a couple week of use, even without walking with it in the pocket that much, a slight pinch or twist can cut off the connection. Ordered a right angle USB-C to lightning cable from Woo audio, feel really sturdy, but a bit stiff. Works great so far.
> 
> 
> By the way, does anyone have better idea to somehow 'attached' Paw S1 or other similar dongles back of the phone? Feel like Velcro doesn't really work because the body of Paw S1 is slightly curve. I'm currently using elastic band that clip into the case for temporary solution.



Velcro 100% is the way to go. The curved body of the S1 doesn't affect its holding ability what so ever. I have 2 strips, both .25" wide, perpendicular to the S1's body. One at the top, one at the bottom.  I am extremely tough on my dongles, using them while skateboarding, running, cleaning the house, etc., and the velcro works very well. Just get the name brand, regular level velcro as the "extreme" stuff is too thick. I put the soft side on my phone, but I suppose that is personal preference.


----------



## Earbones (Aug 20, 2021)

Been listening to the S1. Liking it a LOT. More than the LP W2, honestly. Don’t get me wrong, they are both equally capable, it comes down to which tone you like… and I prefer the Lotoo.

Strangely, I even like the S1’s EQ presets more than the W2’s.

A pro review I read gave the edge to the W2 over the S1 in that department, but I wonder if that wasn’t just the reviewer’s knee-jerk reaction to the fact that while the W2’s presets are subtle, the S1 takes big swings. Usually when a preset changes the sound dramatically, it’s because some aspect of the tuning has been wildly altered. And when you’re flipping through the S1’s presets, that’s what it sounds like, initially. But I found if I let my ears adjust to the new signatures, they were actually pretty damn decently executed. The W2’s presets by comparison, while subtler, are indeed generally just the product of one or two values being turned up to 11.

I actually use some of the S1’s presets, and that’s saying something... I generally hate presets. In particular, I find the “Rock” setting to be really well done.


----------



## kemba1291

@waveSounds I had a talk with both Lotoo and Tidal support.

Lotoo said they are aware of this issue and are working on a potential Firmware fix.

However, it seems Tidal is the one who will do it. Here is their full response after my support ticket was transferred to the technical team. 

"Our developers are currently working on making a bit-perfect feature for the TIDAL app to recognize more and more devices. 

At this time, it's very limited and we are working to expand it to more and more devices. 

Your current DAC is simply not integrated for it currently, but we have forwarded the request to see it added as we work to improve this new feature. 

They do recommend in the meantime using an app like the UAPP app in the meantime as it helps provide the bit-perfect rate between TIDAL and your DAC if you're having any trouble streaming bit-perfect with your current set-up.

We appreciate your understanding as well in the meantime while our team works further on making this possible through the mobile app itself. "


----------



## Earbones (Aug 20, 2021)

kemba1291 said:


> @waveSounds I had a talk with both Lotoo and Tidal support.
> 
> Lotoo said they are aware of this issue and are working on a potential Firmware fix.
> 
> ...


This is why I switched to Apple Lossless and Amazon HD… Tidal really needs to get on the ball. It’s not like they don’t know that most audiophiles are using their service with mobile devices and DACs (or DAPs)… They don’t even have a (EDIT: proper) desktop app. The only way you can download music (without a workaround) is via the (EDIT: mobile) app. Their number one priority should be bit-perfect support for every conceivable device, and yet they drag their feet on this. They don’t even have support for some of the major players… It will be a long minute before they get to the likes of niche audiophlie outfits like Lotoo…


----------



## rlw6534 (Aug 20, 2021)

Earbones said:


> They don’t even have a desktop app.



They (Tidal) have desktop apps for both Windows and MacOS - I have used both.  Maybe I misunderstood your comment.


----------



## CANiSLAYu

rlw6534 said:


> They have desktop apps for both Windows and MacOS - I have used both.  Maybe I misunderstood your comment.


Definitely misinformed. Tidal’s iOS/iPadOS app has been flawless with hires support with an external DAC forever and along with Qobuz is one of the few hires streaming services that play well with third parties like Roon and UAPP to give users choice. Good luck with Amazon and Apple doing that.


----------



## Earbones (Aug 20, 2021)

rlw6534 said:


> They (Tidal) have desktop apps for both Windows and MacOS - I have used both.  Maybe I misunderstood your comment.


No, I phrased it poorly… I don‘t find it to be a proper full-featured app, as there is no offline support for the desktop version. A lot more laptops out there than desktops these days... the desktop app being dependent on a strong WiFi connection is BS, in my opinion. YMMV.


CANiSLAYu said:


> Definitely misinformed. Tidal’s iOS/iPadOS app has been flawless with hires support with an external DAC forever and along with Qobuz is one of the few hires streaming services that play well with third parties like Roon and UAPP to give users choice. Good luck with Amazon and Apple doing that.


If I am misinformed then why on earth are people above complaining, and why did Tidal send someone who was complaining an email that said, in part, “Our developers are currently working on making a bit-perfect feature for the TIDAL app to recognize more and more devices.”?

I personally don’t care about either UAPP or Roon… I just want to plug my DAC into my iPad and get the full resolution promised without hassle. Apple Lossless and Amazon HD do this, apparently flawlessly, with whatever DAC I choose to use. Tidal is in bed with MQA, which has frankly been kind of hit-or-miss in my experience. My iFi gear unpacks and plays it (again, apparently) flawlessly. But I have some other (allegedly MQA-capable) gear that plays it with some issues, or sometimes drops the ball entirely. Tidal (again, at least in my experience) is just not as rock-solid plug and play as it’s competitors, and it costs twice as much. And on top of that, I’ve read entirely too much from the whole audio resolution nerd-on community that MQA isn’t that great a format anyway. I’m not weighing in on whether MQA is in fact as lossless as it claims or not, just pointing out that nobody seems to be questioning a 24/192 track from Amazon or Apple.

EDIT: Well, I should amend that… Within the Sony club house of aficionados, there are a lot of questions about what resolution the streaming-capable devices are pulling from _all_ of the services, Apple and Amazon included. But that’s a Sony thing. And a goddamn blackhole discussion of device capabilities vs corporate decisions that we should definitely not get sucked into, ha ha.


----------



## CANiSLAYu

He’s  talking about the Android app. Android by default does ample rate conversion to 48kHz regardless of the files sample rate. To bypass it you need an Android-based DAP that bypasses the SRC or an app like UAPP and an external DAC. Tidal is trying to fix that and bypass the SRC within their Android app, like UAPP does. iOS/iPadOS do not have this issue.  You just need the Tidal app and an external DAC, exactly the sample as Apple Music. There are zero issues with getting full resolution the S1 and Tidal on iOS/iPadOS. That’s just spreading misinformation, like saying there’s not a desktop app.


----------



## kemba1291

Earbones said:


> No, I phrased it poorly… I don‘t find it to be a proper full-featured app, as there is no offline support for the desktop version. A lot more laptops out there than desktops these days... the desktop app being dependent on a strong WiFi connection is BS, in my opinion. YMMV.
> 
> If I am misinformed then why on earth are people above complaining, and why did Tidal send someone who was complaining an email that said, in part, “Our developers are currently working on making a bit-perfect feature for the TIDAL app to recognize more and more devices.”?
> 
> ...


A little confusion here, I'll try my best to clear it.

Android resamples everything to 48 khz. Be it via upsampling or downsampling. This makes it impossible to get the real output of a type c dac and hires music is a far fetched idea. 
One has the option of using third party players like UAPP, that integrate Qobuz and Tidal, but their UIs are outdated and lack many features like offline music support. 

When it comes to full fledged streaming apps, Tidal is the only one who has started providing bit-perfect playback straight from the androod app, or atleast they are trying to. I know some DACs work great (Helm Bolt), and some are still being integrated (Paw S1). Nobody else has tried to do this, not apple music, not amazon music, not spotify, no one. So as far as Tidal is concerned, I think they are leading the pack when it comes to bit perfect on android.

Although I get it, I tried the apple music lossless update and it's great. Too bad they have no plans of bit perfect playback on android, and no windows app to pair with. I really believe they are losing a bunch of people due to the lack of a windows app.


----------



## Earbones (Aug 21, 2021)

CANiSLAYu said:


> He’s  talking about the Android app. Android by default does ample rate conversion to 48kHz regardless of the files sample rate. To bypass it you need an Android-based DAP that bypasses the SRC or an app like UAPP and an external DAC. Tidal is trying to fix that and bypass the SRC within their Android app, like UAPP does. iOS/iPadOS do not have this issue.  You just need the Tidal app and an external DAC, exactly the sample as Apple Music. There are zero issues with getting full resolution the S1 and Tidal on iOS/iPadOS. That’s just spreading misinformation, like saying there’s not a desktop app.





kemba1291 said:


> A little confusion here, I'll try my best to clear it.
> 
> Android resamples everything to 48 khz. Be it via upsampling or downsampling. This makes it impossible to get the real output of a type c dac and hires music is a far fetched idea.
> One has the option of using third party players like UAPP, that integrate Qobuz and Tidal, but their UIs are outdated and lack many features like offline music support.
> ...


Ahhhh… I see. Yeah, I’ve never really been on anything outside the Apple/iPhone ecosystem, with the exception of the Sony ZX507 (and two very briefly-owned A&Ks, only one of which I streamed on for like maybe five minutes). Yes, this is ringing a bell. That’s pretty obnoxious of Android. I wonder what the thinking is behind that? Merely to nip potential data hogging apps in the bud? That doesn’t seem very Android-like… isn’t the whole deal with Android that it’s an eminently user-respecting OS that doesn’t try and force users down one particular usage path, ala Apple and all the “iPhone sheeple”?

I don’t get too into this stuff, but what’s ringing a bell is I’m thinking about some of the discussions for the Android-based Sony devices, including the 507. People seem to blame Sony for not allowing bit-perfect streaming, and they complain that some other Android-based DAPs have been able to circumvent the Android bottleneck and stream bit-perfect. How are those other devices accomplishing this, if they are Android-based?


----------



## kemba1291

Earbones said:


> Ahhhh… I see. Yeah, I’ve never been on anything but an iPhone. That sounds pretty obnoxious of Android. I wonder what the thinking is behind that? Merely to nip a potential data hogs in the bud? That doesn’t seem very Android-like… isn’t the whole deal with Android that it’s an eminently user-respecting OS that doesn’t try and force users down one particular usage path, ala Apple and all the “iPhone sheeple”?


It's an age old kernel configuration from the early days of android development, meant to reduce processing power, since there were no Snapdragon XX_9000_XX on the market then. Also, the lack of hi-res music on the go, and the scarcity of devices that can power hi-res resolving headgear (portable DAC/AMPs not that common). 
It's only now that Apple has a very good chance of pushing Hi-Res to the mainstream, and Spotify for CD Quality at least. 

But I feel the real difficulty is the no. of brands, like Samsung and Xiaomi. Some android based DAPs like Shanling and Hiby R6 2020 run full fledged android OS with the ability to install any music app one wants, but they have fixed this resampling problem in the system level. Which basically means all of apple music, amazon, spotify, tidal etc will have bit perfect music by default. Which implies that this flaw is fixable, and the huge no. of android OEMs never saw this worthwhile. Other companies will now catch up I believe, now that Hi-Res on the go is a very real thing.


----------



## CANiSLAYu

kemba1291 said:


> A little confusion here, I'll try my best to clear it.
> 
> Android resamples everything to 48 khz. Be it via upsampling or downsampling. This makes it impossible to get the real output of a type c dac and hires music is a far fetched idea.
> One has the option of using third party players like UAPP, that integrate Qobuz and Tidal, but their UIs are outdated and lack many features like offline music support.
> ...


Exactly this. I don’t even think Apple Music or Amazon Music support exclusive mode on their desktop apps like Tidal does. And at least Tidal is trying to bypass the limitations of Android.

I don’t think Amazon or Apple care about “audiophiles” at all. For them, their streaming services are about keeping users in their ecosystem and selling hardware (phones, tablets, Bluetooth headphones and smart speakers). So I doubt they’re losing any subscribers because of any of these limitations, they’re just not going to capture new “audiophile” ones, which is too small a slice of the market for them to care. They can leave that to Tidal, Qobuz, Deezer, etc.


----------



## garysohn

CANiSLAYu said:


> Exactly this. I don’t even think Apple Music or Amazon Music support exclusive mode on their desktop apps like Tidal does. And at least Tidal is trying to bypass the limitations of Android.
> 
> I don’t think Amazon or Apple care about “audiophiles” at all. For them, their streaming services are about keeping users in their ecosystem and selling hardware (phones, tablets, Bluetooth headphones and smart speakers). So I doubt they’re losing any subscribers because of any of these limitations, they’re just not going to capture new “audiophile” ones, which is too small a slice of the market for them to care. They can leave that to Tidal, Qobuz, Deezer, etc.


Hear the man.


----------



## Earbones (Aug 21, 2021)

Been using my S1 with my iPad, just tried it with my iPod Touch 7th gen… Won’t turn on. Ditto with my iPhone 12 Pro Max.

Tried two different cables. The cables are charge/data cables. I don’t believe there is such a thing as a data-capable USB-C to Lightning cable without the ability to handle simple phone/DAC pairing, so I am a little flummoxed.

Is there a setting or something I need to toggle? Like do I need to connect it to a computer and switch on compatibility with smaller mobile devices or something? Nothing in the user manual mentions that or anything remotely similar.

EDIT: doing some research, and in one thread someone said the S1 only works with the proprietary Lotoo USB-C to Lightning cable ($35)? Really hope this is not true. Anybody know?


----------



## jwbrent

Earbones said:


> Been using my S1 with my iPad, just tried it with my iPod Touch 7th gen… Won’t turn on. Ditto with my iPhone 12 Pro Max.
> 
> Tried two different cables. The cables are charge/data cables. I don’t believe there is such a thing as a data-capable USB-C to Lightning cable without the ability to handle simple phone/DAC pairing, so I am a little flummoxed.
> 
> ...



I believe you can use any Apple Mifi rated cable. When I received my S1, the Lotoo lightning cable intermittently worked, so I contacted my dealer and he sent me a new one, no problems since. Other’s here have reported a similar experience. Good luck. ✌️


----------



## Earbones (Aug 21, 2021)

jwbrent said:


> I believe you can use any Apple Mifi rated cable. When I received my S1, the Lotoo lightning cable intermittently worked, so I contacted my dealer and he sent me a new one, no problems since. Other’s here have reported a similar experience. Good luck. ✌️


One of the cables I tried is a current OEM Apple USB-C to Lightning cable, bought from the Apple store.

EDIT: Just checked, the other cable (although not OEM) is Apple MFI Certified as well…


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Earbones said:


> One of the cables I tried is a current OEM Apple USB-C to Lightning cable, bought from the Apple store.
> 
> EDIT: Just checked, the other cable (although not OEM) is Apple MFI Certified as well…


Earbones

Its more than just having Apple MFI certification, as some lightning cables just do not support Audio 
The Apple branded USB-C to lightning cable does not support DAC's/Audio.  There are posts on Head-Fi and on the internet that have direct quotes form Apple Engineers who confirm this.  The OEM Apple cable only seems to support charging and data synching. 

There are many posts here in this S1 Forum that others have listed the cables they have found that will work connecting the S1 to a lightning port.
also depending on the DAC/AMP model, a cable can work for one model and not the other for the same manufacturer, and it is all in the Mfi certification for that device.

DD-HIFI has a Lightning to USB-C adapter (Model TC28i) that allows you to use theirs or others OTG USB-C Cables, and it work with the S1
But I have 1st had experience it is trial and error as I have some cables that work with the S1 that will NOT work with other DAC's and those DAC's cables won't work with the S1.

Search within this thread and you'll see posts from other besides myself where we have listed cables that work S1 to Lightning.
Some are discontinued, others are not cheap.  
Its best you take a look at those comments so you can decide which you want to try, but in general the Lotoo Cable works every time unless damaged

Hope this information helps


----------



## CANiSLAYu

Earbones said:


> Been using my S1 with my iPad, just tried it with my iPod Touch 7th gen… Won’t turn on. Ditto with my iPhone 12 Pro Max.
> 
> Tried two different cables. The cables are charge/data cables. I don’t believe there is such a thing as a data-capable USB-C to Lightning cable without the ability to handle simple phone/DAC pairing, so I am a little flummoxed.
> 
> ...


You need an OTG cable, like the Lotoo one. ddHifi MFi06 and FiiO LT-LT1 are two other examples.


----------



## rmkjr

This one also works if you need something quick and/or prefer Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08WQ1LY5D/


----------



## Gus141

Earbones said:


> Been using my S1 with my iPad, just tried it with my iPod Touch 7th gen… Won’t turn on. Ditto with my iPhone 12 Pro Max.
> ….


I mostly use the Lotoo lightning cable for the S1 (purchased from Musicteck) with my iPhone 12 Mini, but I can also get the S1 to work with an iPhone using the lightning cable included with the L&P W2. If I recall from one of your posts you have a W2, so maybe try that option before buying another cable.


----------



## Earbones

Gus141 said:


> I mostly use the Lotoo lightning cable for the S1 (purchased from Musicteck) with my iPhone 12 Mini, but I can also get the S1 to work with an iPhone using the lightning cable included with the L&P W2. If I recall from one of your posts you have a W2, so maybe try that option before buying another cable.





rmkjr said:


> This one also works if you need something quick and/or prefer Amazon.
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08WQ1LY5D/


@Gus141 - I actually ended up returning the W2. Prefer the sound of the S1, and it draws a lot less power…

@rmkjr - Just bought it. Sure beats $35 plus shipping. Thanks!


----------



## Gus141

Earbones said:


> I actually ended up returning the W2. Prefer the sound of the S1, and it draws a lot less power…


I agree when it comes to pairing with an iPhone (I use my S1 with an iPhone 12 mini almost exclusively); but I find the W2 with an iPad Pro 12.9” 2020 to sound better than the S1. I‘m guessing the iPad power output over USB-C is less restrictive than the iPhone’s Lightning connector.


----------



## kemba1291

Just received my Lotoo Paw S1!
One thing, when connected to my windows 10 laptop, the volume controls don't work (windows controls). The buttons on the dac work, but is there any reason it doesn't work via the OS contols? Sorry for the stupid questions, this is my first DAC. 
Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## jwbrent

kemba1291 said:


> Just received my Lotoo Paw S1!
> One thing, when connected to my windows 10 laptop, the volume controls don't work (windows controls). The buttons on the dac work, but is there any reason it doesn't work via the OS contols? Sorry for the stupid questions, this is my first DAC.
> Any help would be appreciated.



I can’t explain the technical reason why, but yes, that is normal, the volume is controlled by the S1. It may have something to do with battery draw since the primary market for dongles is for phones.

Congrats on your first DAC, you picked a good one! 👍


----------



## kemba1291

jwbrent said:


> I can’t explain the technical reason why, but yes, that is normal, the volume is controlled by the S1. It may have something to do with battery draw since the primary market for dongles is for phones.
> 
> Congrats on your first DAC, you picked a good one! 👍


Ah got it, thanks for the answer. It's weird though, since quite a few dongles don't have volume buttons, like the Hidizs s9 pro. What will the users do then? 

And thank you! I cannot believe the things I used to miss while listening to music straight from a mobile phone. I fired up dreams by fleetwood mac on Tidal, and boy was I blown away! I really see what people mean when they say music straight from mobile sounds very digital, and the DACs give them more life.


----------



## jwbrent

kemba1291 said:


> Ah got it, thanks for the answer. It's weird though, since quite a few dongles don't have volume buttons, like the Hidizs s9 pro. What will the users do then?
> 
> And thank you! I cannot believe the things I used to miss while listening to music straight from a mobile phone. I fired up dreams by fleetwood mac on Tidal, and boy was I blown away! I really see what people mean when they say music straight from mobile sounds very digital, and the DACs give them more life.



Well, the dongle is then designed to let the source control volume. I presumed all dongles had volume controls, hence my remark.

Great to read! Glad you’re loving your new experience! 😁


----------



## Kiats

It is amazing that a little dongle like the S1 can drive the UM Mason Fusang more authoritatively than the SP2KCu.


----------



## kemba1291

When playing MQA files, does the EQ function stop working for everyone?
I tried setting default quality to lossless instead of master on Tidal, but some lossless tracks are getting detected as MQA when playing on the Tidal Windows app. This disables the EQ option, even though the app says its playing the lossless stream and not MQA.
Is there something wrong?


P.S. - If it matters, after flashing the new firmware, I set the sampling rate of the Paw S1 in windows drivers as 32/384.


----------



## musicday

Kiats said:


> It is amazing that a little dongle like the S1 can drive the UM Mason Fusang more authoritatively than the SP2KCu.


That's a bold claim, but I am happy to read that.


----------



## Kiats

musicday said:


> That's a bold claim, but I am happy to read that.


Hahah! I have tried both the Traillii and the Fusang on the SP2KCu. It has good synergy with the Traillii. Not so the Fusang. It is what it is.


----------



## twister6

Kiats said:


> Hahah! I have tried both the Traillii and the Fusang on the SP2KCu. It has good synergy with the Traillii. Not so the Fusang. It is what it is.



You posted the same pair up picture with W2, which one do you like better with FuSang, S1 or W2?


----------



## Kiats

twister6 said:


> You posted the same pair up picture with W2, which one do you like better with FuSang, S1 or W2?


Still trying both out with Fusang. The S1 seems more powerful at this stage with slightly lower playing volume. Early days.


----------



## twister6

Kiats said:


> Still trying both out with Fusang. The S1 seems more powerful at this stage with slightly lower playing volume. Early days.



Probably pair up synergy, since bal out of S1 is 120mW while W2 is 230mW, double the power. I had only a brief encounter with Feable Sound, personally preferred more transparent tuning of the Bird, but wondering maybe that is a reason why pair up of FuSang with a more revealing S1 better than smoother W2.


----------



## Kiats

twister6 said:


> Probably pair up synergy, since bal out of S1 is 120mW while W2 is 230mW, double the power. I had only a brief encounter with Feable Sound, personally preferred more transparent tuning of the Bird, but wondering maybe that is a reason why pair up of FuSang with a more revealing S1 better than smoother W2.


Probably true. Like I said, it was on a random try of my 2 dongles cos I had never tried the Fusang with either. Yes, more listening will be required to be able see which one I prefer with the Fusang. Though it is likely to be close like the way I enjoy the Fusang with both the DX312 and the M8 in the space of streaming DAPs.


----------



## jwbrent

Kiats said:


> It is amazing that a little dongle like the S1 can drive the UM Mason Fusang more authoritatively than the SP2KCu.



I’m telling you, I’m really surprised by the performance on such a relatively inexpensive dongle. The S1 was my first experience with Lotoo, and it has made quite an impression on me, to the point I may go with a Lotoo dap as an upgrade from my SA700. Still waiting to see if Sony updates the WM1A/Z before I make a purchasing decision, though.


----------



## akde06

musicday said:


> Finally, the Paw S1 works great with my Windows 7 64 Ultimate. I am happy.


Congrats for success but I am not as my Win 7 64 Ultimate refuses to work with Lotoo s1. How do you do that? Kindly help. Thanks in advance.


----------



## akde06

ayang02 said:


> For people who can't use S1 with Windows 7, try installing this driver (use setup.exe): https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ze5m3xwxl4vxf7/usbdacCA(touch&6000&PAW-S1).zip
> 
> I don't use Windows 7 anymore but a few folks mentioned this driver worked for them.


File has been deleted from Dropbox. Kindly re-upload.


----------



## ayang02

akde06 said:


> File has been deleted from Dropbox. Kindly re-upload.



Sorry I don’t own the files but I also think that file is no longer necessary for Windows 7 if you’ve updated the S1 firmware.


----------



## akde06

ayang02 said:


> Sorry I don’t own the files but I also think that file is no longer necessary for Windows 7 if you’ve updated the S1 firmware.


Thanks for your reply.  I updated fw to 1.0.0.10, the latest update. Still no avil. Any help will be highly appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## ayang02

akde06 said:


> Thanks for your reply.  I updated fw to 1.0.0.10, the latest update. Still no avil. Any help will be highly appreciated. Thanks.



Have you tried to use the UAC mode? Hold + before connecting to your Windows 7 PC.


----------



## akde06

ayang02 said:


> Have you tried to use the UAC mode? Hold + before connecting to your Windows 7 PC.


No. I will try that and let you know. Thanks again.


----------



## akde06

akde06 said:


> No. I will try that and let you know. Thanks again.


Thanks it is working 😀. But dsd not playing from jriver media center. It is only playing 16/48 format under uc1 mode. For playing hi res file usb audio 2.0 class driver needed which implements ASIO driver that I badly need for win 7. Anyway many many thanks for helping atleast playing something from little paw S1. Cheers.👌


----------



## akde06

musicday said:


> Certainly Lotoo Paw S1 is better then Chord Dave if all you have is 200 USD.


Can you suggest me how to implement uac2 in windows 7 using S1? Thanks.


----------



## musicday

akde06 said:


> Can you suggest me how to implement uac2 in windows 7 using S1? Thanks.


Hold + before connecting to your Windows 7 PC.
And make sure you are on the latest firmware for best results. Is UAC1 mode.


----------



## akde06 (Sep 4, 2021)

musicday said:


> Hold + before connecting to your Windows 7 PC.
> And make sure you are on the latest firmware for best results. Is UAC1 mode.


Thanks for your reply. But am asking you for UAC2 i.e usb audio class 2.0 interface in windows 7 for playing DSD & other hi res file through jriver media player.


----------



## kemba1291

Btw, does UAPP not have the MQA button glow when playing via the Lotoo PAW S1?


----------



## akde06 (Sep 4, 2021)

kemba1291 said:


> Btw, does UAPP not have the MQA button glow when playing via the Lotoo PAW S1?


No. It only showing lower version of codec i.e 24/44.1 (if the original version is 24/44.1 MQA) in UAPP. However, Lotoo s1 showing MQA.4X with 32/352.8khz. I think UAPP not decoding MQA just passes to Lotoo & then Lotoo dose decoding & rendering MQA. That's why blue light is not glowing in UAPP while playing with Lotoo. That's it.


----------



## kemba1291 (Sep 4, 2021)

akde06 said:


> No. It only showing lower version of codec i.e 24/44.1 (if the original version is 24/44.1 MQA) in UAPP. However, Lotoo s1 showing MQA.4X with 32/352.8khz. I think UAPP not decoding MQA just passes to Lotoo & then Lotoo dose decoding & rendering MQA. That's why blue light is not glowing in UAPP while playing with Lotoo. That's it.


Any track that goes upto 32/352.8khz while using PAW S1 with UAPP? I reach 24/96 max in the tracks I tested (both UAPP and Tidal app on windows). Also, some lossless (CD quality) tracks on the Tidal windows app show up as MQA, thereby disabling the ability to use EQ. Is this a known issue?


----------



## akde06 (Sep 4, 2021)

kemba1291 said:


> Any track that goes upto 32/352.8khz while using PAW S1 with UAPP? I reach 24/96 max in the tracks I tested. Also, some lossless (CD quality) tracks on the Tidal windows app show up as MQA, thereby disabling the ability to use EQ. Is this a known issue?


I have an MQA album The Window by David Elias which is 24/352.8khz MQA master. Just attaching one song of this album & play with UAPP/ Lotoo. Tell me what you getting. Sorry the file is 20mb not attaching. If send your mail id I will mail the same. While MQA file you can't adjust EQ, it will be disabled by system. It is not fault of Lotoo. MQA is designed that way. Thanks.


----------



## rlw6534 (Sep 4, 2021)

akde06 said:


> No. It only showing lower version of codec i.e 24/44.1 (if the original version is 24/44.1 MQA) in UAPP. However, Lotoo s1 showing MQA.4X with 32/352.8khz. I think UAPP not decoding MQA just passes to Lotoo & then Lotoo dose decoding & rendering MQA. That's why blue light is not glowing in UAPP while playing with Lotoo. That's it.



That's exactly how it should work with a MQA decoder.  All of the MQA authentication and unfolding is done on the DAC.  UAPP just sends the unaltered stream.  You don't even need the MQA add-on for UAPP.  If you want EQ, it will need to be done on the DAC or you will lose MQA.


----------



## kemba1291

rlw6534 said:


> That's exactly how it should work with a MQA decoder.  All of the MQA authentication and unfolding is done on the DAC.  UAPP just sends the unaltered stream.  You don't even need the MQA add-on for UAPP.  If you want EQ, it will need to be done on the DAC or you will lose MQA.


As far as I have seen, whenever I play MQA tracks(as per the display, since it detects a few lossless tracks on tidal as mqa too), the eq preset cannot be changed on the lotoo paw s1. It just says none and cannot be switched.


----------



## jsmiller58

kemba1291 said:


> As far as I have seen, whenever I play MQA tracks(as per the display, since it detects a few lossless tracks on tidal as mqa too), the eq preset cannot be changed on the lotoo paw s1. It just says none and cannot be switched.


That corresponds to what I think I know about MQA - MQA does not allow any alteration of the bitstream, so digital EQ will not work.  The MQA folks have some stated logic for this (which I think is bunk), but I’d rather not start an MQA flame war and just leave it at that.


----------



## akde06

rlw6534 said:


> That's exactly how it should work with a MQA decoder.  All of the MQA authentication and unfolding is done on the DAC.  UAPP just sends the unaltered stream.  You don't even need the MQA add-on for UAPP.  If you want EQ, it will need to be done on the DAC or you will lose MQA.


Yeah. That's why EQ is disabled in lotoo S1 while playing MQA. Just to keep MQA neutral/unadulterated. 😄


----------



## rlw6534

kemba1291 said:


> As far as I have seen, whenever I play MQA tracks(as per the display, since it detects a few lossless tracks on tidal as mqa too), the eq preset cannot be changed on the lotoo paw s1. It just says none and cannot be switched.



OK, that makes sense.  Actually never tried it on a S1 DAC...   I normally use Roon, which does let you EQ MQA tracks.


----------



## Mitr1anton

9.9.21 
PAW S2


----------



## kemba1291

Mitr1anton said:


> 9.9.21
> PAW S2


Of course, this had to be released two days after I receive my Hiby FC3.


----------



## musicday

Mitr1anton said:


> 9.9.21
> PAW S2


It will be announced tomorrow. Even if I own the W2, if this is better and has more power I am in.


----------



## twister6

musicday said:


> It will be announced tomorrow. Even if I own the W2, if this is better and has more power I am in.



Curious to see the spec as well, and of course to hear it. More power to be aligned with W2, possible, but too much and iOS/iPhone gonna choke while Android battery won't be happy either.


----------



## musicday

twister6 said:


> Curious to see the spec as well, and of course to hear it. More power to be aligned with W2, possible, but too much and iOS/iPhone gonna choke while Android battery won't be happy either.


Looking forward also to see if the existing cases will fit S2. Is hard to tell if the design has changed.


----------



## jsmiller58

Mitr1anton said:


> 9.9.21
> PAW S2


----------



## Gus141

Mitr1anton said:


> 9.9.21
> PAW S2


Looks like it has a power button on the side, at the top. Maybe to prevent draining phone battery when not in use without having to disconnect the DAC?


----------



## twister6

musicday said:


> Looking forward also to see if the existing cases will fit S2. Is hard to tell if the design has changed.



It won't for sure, teaser picture has 4 round buttons on the side.  I guess all the intimate details will be available tonight!


----------



## musicday

twister6 said:


> It won't for sure, teaser picture has 4 round buttons on the side.  I guess all the intimate details will be available tonight!


Anyway I like L&P but I believe in Lotoo also. Definitely the race is on for the best dongle.


----------



## Mitr1anton

kemba1291 said:


> Of course, this had to be released two days after I receive my Hiby FC3.


Look also on this 😂


----------



## kadinh

I'll definitely be watching for the announcement about the S2.


----------



## twister6

From Lotoo FB page, in reference to S2

《 New Product Launch 》
Successor to the widely acclaimed PAW S1, the PAW S2 comes with an increased complement of a ground-breaking new circuit design, resultingly the performance achieved is awe-inspiring despite its diminutive size.
Powered by the now legendary AKM4377 DAC chip and coupled with the full suite of Lotoo’s advanced audio technologies, PAW S2 has raised the bar again for the ever portable, compact, dongle-style USB DACs.
HIGHLIGHTS
1. Superior sound technologies encased in a rugged but sleek design
2. High Resolution without high power consumption
3. New “Remote Control” feature & New OTG Cables available in two different lengths (65mm & 800mm); can be paired with the belt-clip
4. Potent enough to drive even demanding headphones
5. 4.4 Balanced & 3.5 Single-Ended Dual Outputs
6. MQA Certified
MSRP: USD249


----------



## kemba1291

Isn't 150mW less for balanced port? The UA2 has almost 200mw I feel.
I am new to DACs and Hi-Fi audio. Does the '/ch' mean anything? Some DACs use it in the power output section, some don't. UA2 has 125mw@32 and Paw S2 has 150mW/ch@32. Is the '/ch' part implied in the UA2 specification sheet and that's why it's missing, or is the Paw genuinely provide more than double the power?


----------



## musicday

L&P W2 has output 230 mW 4.4 mm if you need more power.


----------



## kemba1291

musicday said:


> L&P W2 has output 230 mW 4.4 mm if you need more power.


Yeah I understand. Just wanted to know the meaning of these ratings. Is this 230mW per channel or just 230 mW? Is every DAC specification supposed to mean /ch even if they don't write it exclusively?


----------



## musicday

Is 230 mW per channel @ 32 ohm in balanced mode.


----------



## akde06

kemba1291 said:


> Yeah I understand. Just wanted to know the meaning of these ratings. Is this 230mW per channel or just 230 mW? Is every DAC specification supposed to mean /ch even if they don't write it exc


----------



## akde06

Yes. 230mw@32ohm per ch.


----------



## kemba1291

akde06 said:


> Yes. 230mw@32ohm per ch.


Damn, I was grossly misled into believing that the Lotoo PAW S1 was more powerful than the Shanling UA1 just because it mentioned 70mw/ch instead of just 100mW in the case of UA2. That means the UA2 comes out to 200 mW. Shop owner will do anything to sell higher priced items.


----------



## akde06

kemba1291 said:


> Damn, I was grossly misled into believing that the Lotoo PAW S1 was more powerful than the Shanling UA1 just because it mentioned 70mw/ch instead of just 100mW in the case of UA2. That means the UA2 comes out to 200 mW. Shop owner will do anything to sell higher priced items.


Yes. Lotoo 120mw@32ohm vs u2 195mw@32 in balance mode. But lotoo has the quality and EQ feature which has more impact on music rather than non EQ powerful dac/ amp. That's make s1 costlier than u2 inspite of low power of the former.


----------



## kemba1291

akde06 said:


> Yes. Lotoo 120mw@32ohm vs u2 195mw@32 in balance mode. But lotoo has the quality and EQ feature which has more impact on music rather than non EQ powerful dac/ amp. That's make s1 costlier than u2 inspite of low power of the former.


That's fine as an argument. But trying to say the lotoo paw s1 is more powerful than UA2 just to force a sale is obviously wrong.


----------



## akde06

kemba1291 said:


> That's fine as an argument. But trying to say the lotoo paw s1 is more powerful than UA2 just to force a sale is obviously wrong.


Yes of course it is wrong to sale the product in this way. I will suggest before buying audio gear just google products specs from the manufacturer itself.


----------



## kemba1291

Mitr1anton said:


> Look also on this 😂


Which dongle is this?


----------



## Mitr1anton

kemba1291 said:


> Which dongle is this?


Hiby FC5


----------



## kemba1291

Mitr1anton said:


> Hiby FC5


This has only balanced port if I am not wrong.


----------



## akde06

kemba1291 said:


> This has only balanced port if I am not wrong.


Yeah.


----------



## kemba1291

akde06 said:


> Yeah.


Just saved me an intense guilt trip, thank you.


----------



## waveSounds

twister6 said:


> From Lotoo FB page, in reference to S2
> 
> 《 New Product Launch 》
> Successor to the widely acclaimed PAW S1, the PAW S2 comes with an increased complement of a ground-breaking new circuit design, resultingly the performance achieved is awe-inspiring despite its diminutive size.
> ...



Damn it. I'm probably going to have to get this now 😑 More for the improved functionality than any of the other "upgrades". 

What headphones are people using this with that you with moar power? I've never, ever needed to go above 60 on high gain. I mean, it's a dongle. You guys and your obsession with power output is a little weird to me.


----------



## akde06

waveSounds said:


> Damn it. I'm probably going to have to get this now 😑 More for the improved functionality than any of the other "upgrades".
> 
> What headphones are people using this with that you with moar power? I've never, ever needed to go above 60 on high gain. I mean, it's a dongle. You guys and your obsession with power output is a little weird to me.


Yeah. That's the catch. Go for quality amp/dac dongle rather than  more powerful dongle.


----------



## musicday

New thread created for Lotoo Paw S2:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-lotoo-paw-s2-usb-dac-amp-150-mw-32-ohm-4-4-mqa-4x.959582/


----------



## kemba1291

waveSounds said:


> Damn it. I'm probably going to have to get this now 😑 More for the improved functionality than any of the other "upgrades".
> 
> What headphones are people using this with that you with moar power? I've never, ever needed to go above 60 on high gain. I mean, it's a dongle. You guys and your obsession with power output is a little weird to me.


There are other demanding headphones you know. My work is done with the HIby FC3, doesn't mean the same for others. Planar magnetics need plenty to reach their max potential.


----------



## waveSounds

kemba1291 said:


> There are other demanding headphones you know. My work is done with the HIby FC3, doesn't mean the same for others. Planar magnetics need plenty to reach their max potential.


 
Oh sure, I understand that. I meant in the application of use with a dongle, though. Maybe there are chaps out there taking their Abyss 1266s on the commute to work...


----------



## kemba1291

waveSounds said:


> Oh sure, I understand that. I meant in the application of use with a dongle, though. Maybe there are chaps out there taking their Abyss 1266s on the commute to work...


Guy at my office brings his Sundara everyday.


----------



## rlw6534 (Sep 9, 2021)

kemba1291 said:


> There are other demanding headphones you know. My work is done with the HIby FC3, doesn't mean the same for others. Planar magnetics need plenty to reach their max potential.



Yeah, I use the FC3 with my iPhone for Apple Music and the lower power is actually a feature due to the limited current capability.  I have never once felt that I needed more power with my IEMs.   Obviously, I didn't buy it for my HD6XX...

But the S2 looks tempting.


----------



## twister6

There is one big improvement some might have missed, S2 will have Play/Pause/Skip functionality for remote control of the playback.

Regarding output power, makes me wonder if it is kept intentionally lower to avoid issues with iPhone compatibility due to current sourcing limitation.  For example, at max volume W2 will source almost 160mA from iPhone and the power will be cut off, while at normal listening volume it is around 120-130mA which creates issues with some IEMs at volume over 70.  Again, iPhone *ONLY* limitation.  It's a simple math, higher power output means higher current draw from your phone battery since these dongles don't have built-in battery.  So, with a higher power you are either draining phone battery faster or creating issues with iPhone compatibility.  If you need to drive demanding headphone, dongles are not the way to go 

Will have to check out how S2 compares to S1 and W2 once I have it.


----------



## akde06

twister6 said:


> There is one big improvement some might have missed, S2 will have Play/Pause/Skip functionality for remote control of the playback.
> 
> Regarding output power, makes me wonder if it is kept intentionally lower to avoid issues with iPhone compatibility due to current sourcing limitation.  For example, at max volume W2 will source almost 160mA from iPhone and the power will be cut off, while at normal listening volume it is around 120-130mA which creates issues with some IEMs at volume over 70.  Again, iPhone *ONLY* limitation.  It's a simple math, higher power output means higher current draw from your phone battery since these dongles don't have built-in battery.  So, with a higher power you are either draining phone battery faster or creating issues with iPhone compatibility.  If you need to drive demanding headphone, dongles are not the way to go
> 
> Will have to check out how S2 compares to S1 and W2 once I have it.


Well explained👍


----------



## akde06

twister6 said:


> There is one big improvement some might have missed, S2 will have Play/Pause/Skip functionality for remote control of the playback.
> 
> Regarding output power, makes me wonder if it is kept intentionally lower to avoid issues with iPhone compatibility due to current sourcing limitation.  For example, at max volume W2 will source almost 160mA from iPhone and the power will be cut off, while at normal listening volume it is around 120-130mA which creates issues with some IEMs at volume over 70.  Again, iPhone *ONLY* limitation.  It's a simple math, higher power output means higher current draw from your phone battery since these dongles don't have built-in battery.  So, with a higher power you are either draining phone battery faster or creating issues with iPhone compatibility.  If you need to drive demanding headphone, dongles are not the way to go
> 
> Will have to check out how S2 compares to S1 and W2 once I have it.


How do you say that at max vol s2 will draw 160mA from iphone. Can you explain?


----------



## mico1964

akde06 said:


> How do you say that at max vol s2 will draw 160mA from iphone. Can you explain?


He is referring to the current drawn by the W2, not by the S2.


----------



## twister6

akde06 said:


> How do you say that at max vol s2 will draw 160mA from iphone. Can you explain?



W2 does, not S1.  S2 was just announced.  Nobody has seen or heard it yet


----------



## akde06

mico1964 said:


> He is referring to the current drawn by the W2, not by the S2.


Ok.


----------



## akde06

twister6 said:


> W2 does, not S1.  S2 was just announced.  Nobody has seen or heard it yet


W2 means luxery & precision w2?


----------



## Rafinnnnnn15

akde06 said:


> W2 significa lujo y precisión w2?


yes


----------



## akde06

Rafinnnnnn15 said:


> yes


It's truly big brother of s1/S2. Any comments?


----------



## twister6

akde06 said:


> It's truly big brother of s1/S2. Any comments?



The jury is still out if S2 will be a big brother or a big sister   But seriously, it was only announced last night.  We only seen the picture and no impressions yet.  S1 is on par with W1, W2 is a step up in sound quality.  S2, will find out soon!


----------



## Sulbh

Can someone compare it to Fiio M11 plus or pro sound wise?


----------



## docaditya

Forgive me for asking such a noob question. Can Lotoo Paw S1 be connected to any external amp through 4.4mm balanced port ?


----------



## twister6

docaditya said:


> Forgive me for asking such a noob question. Can Lotoo Paw S1 be connected to any external amp through 4.4mm balanced port ?



It's not a true LO, they don't even specify it as a pseudo LO, only PO.  But regardless, yes, you can connect it to external amp.  Coincidentally, S2 spec lists Line Out output voltage for both 3.5mm and 4.4mm outputs.


----------



## akde06

docaditya said:


> Forgive me for asking such a noob question. Can Lotoo Paw S1 be connected to any external amp through 4.4mm balanced port ?


Yes you can but external amp should have balanced XLR port. And keep the volume of s1 to max. Offcourse this way your phone may be overloaded.


----------



## deafdoorknob (Oct 14, 2021)

@HuoYuanJia
Re. “Dental” filter, i finally asked about it on a chinese forum, turns out, sibilance is called “teeth sounds” in Chinese, and that filter acts as sibilance control for upper mid forward iems.

A little late but now it all makes sense…


----------



## jmwant

twister6 said:


> It's not a true LO, they don't even specify it as a pseudo LO, only PO.  But regardless, yes, you can connect it to external amp.  Coincidentally, S2 spec lists Line Out output voltage for both 3.5mm and 4.4mm outputs.


Thats a great addition.


----------



## jwbrent

deafdoorknob said:


> @HuoYuanJia
> Re. “Dental” filter, i finally asked about it on a chinese forum, turns out, sibilance is called “teeth sounds” in Chinese, and that filter acts as sibilance control for upper mid forward iems.
> 
> A little late but now it all makes sense…



I always wondered about this. 👍 Frankly, I find the presets way too strong for my taste, the only one I sometimes use is Headphone.


----------



## H T T

jwbrent said:


> I always wondered about this. 👍 Frankly, I find the presets way too strong for my taste, the only one I sometimes use is Headphone.


I don't use the presets on my S1 or L&P W1. Incoming audiophile heretical statement: I want my earphones/headphones to sound how they were designed to sound. If I have to use EQ then I have the wrong earphone/headphone. Speakers and room acoustics are a totally different animal.


----------



## _daRK

H T T said:


> I don't use the presets on my S1 or L&P W1. Incoming audiophile heretical statement: I want my earphones/headphones to sound how they were designed to sound. If I have to use EQ then I have the wrong earphone/headphone. Speakers and room acoustics are a totally different animal.


Depends on your age, wait a few years and you might be thankful for EQ. Trust me, I was in the same attitude.


----------



## jsmiller58

_daRK said:


> Depends on your age, wait a few years and you might be thankful for EQ. Trust me, I was in the same attitude.


It amuses me that people think they hear anything the way it was “designed”…. As if any of us have reference hearing, or the designers of gear or producers of music hear things precisely the way others do 😂😂😂. Ah…, to be innocent again….


----------



## H T T

jsmiller58 said:


> It amuses me that people think they hear anything the way it was “designed”…. As if any of us have reference hearing, or the designers of gear or producers of music hear things precisely the way others do 😂😂😂. Ah…, to be innocent again….


Was this directed at me as I referenced "designed"? If so, then read spoiler, 



Spoiler: rationale



I pick IEMs for tuning as one important element of an IEM's sonics. EQing changes the tuning. If I don't like how an IEM sounds (is tuned), I look elsewhere.I don't see the need to change EQ as I change between a number of IEMs.


. If not directed at me, just ignore.


----------



## jsmiller58

No problem - not directed at you!  it just offered me a chance to make a general comment!  My ears are nearly 6 decades old and I am keenly aware that hearing is highly variable, and changes over life!


----------



## jsmiller58

H T T said:


> Was this directed at me as I referenced "designed"? If so, then read spoiler,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No problem - not directed at you!  it just offered me a chance to make a general comment !  My ears are nearly 6 decades old and I am keenly aware that hearing is highly variable, and changes over life!


----------



## Mrblitz

Hi folks. I've just got my S1, has anyone managed to use it with Tidal's new Android audio bypass feature yet? The app prompts me to allow the DAC when I connect it, but when streaming a master quality track the S1s display indicates "NONE" where I would expect to see "4 x MQA". There's no issue with sound distortion or anything though. It works as expected through UAPP.


----------



## twister6

Mrblitz said:


> Hi folks. I've just got my S1, has anyone managed to use it with Tidal's new Android audio bypass feature yet? The app prompts me to allow the DAC when I connect it, but when streaming a master quality track the S1s display indicates "NONE" where I would expect to see "4 x MQA". There's no issue with sound distortion or anything though. It works as expected through UAPP.



I assume you are using it with Android phone?  Right now on S1 and S2, both loaded with the latest fw, I see OFS/4X with the latest Tidal app, and with UAPP it shows up with MQA/4X.


----------



## Mrblitz

Hi. Yes, Android. I have the latest S1 firmware, maybe I don't have the latest Tidal update, will confirm. Definitely only seeing "none" on the S1 display at the moment 🤔 It's good to know that in theory, it does work, thanks!


----------



## BobJS (Oct 28, 2021)

Is the S1 firmware version for Tidal compatability 1.0.0.9?  That's what I have on my S1.

I have the latest Tidal on my Galaxy S10+.  Tidal recognizes the S1 and asks to allow access.  No matter what I play (MQA or standard hifi) the sound is very distorted and actually sounds slower than the correct tempo.  I was wondering if this was due to perhaps an incompatibility with UAPP which tries to grab the S1 first, though after the S1 is connected to the phone, I close all apps, and then bring up Tidal.

Anyone have similar results or can shed some light on this for me?

Edit:  UAPP works fine with no problems.

Edit2: Upgraded S1 to 1.0.0.10.  Same problem


----------



## Mrblitz

I've just checked and I have the most recent S1 firmware and the latest Tidal update. When I connect the S1, UAPP asks me to allow access, which I deny, then I launch Tidal and I get:

"Allow Tidal to access PAW-S1. This app has not been granted record permission but could capture audio through this USB device"

I ok this and try to play a track and...distortion! The display is now showing "OFS / 4X" which I take to mean it's decoding MQA but the music is totally corrupted.

So, I guess the S1 is not working through the Tidal app yet, at least not for me. Unless I've missed something.


----------



## BobJS

Mrblitz said:


> I've just checked and I have the most recent S1 firmware and the latest Tidal update. When I connect the S1, UAPP asks me to allow access, which I deny, then I launch Tidal and I get:
> 
> "Allow Tidal to access PAW-S1. This app has not been granted record permission but could capture audio through this USB device"
> 
> ...



I get the same thing.  But I get the same distortion for any Tidal playback, not just MQA.   Do you?


----------



## twister6

BobJS said:


> Is the S1 firmware version for Tidal compatability 1.0.0.9?  That's what I have on my S1.
> 
> I have the latest Tidal on my Galaxy S10+.  Tidal recognizes the S1 and asks to allow access.  No matter what I play (MQA or standard hifi) the sound is very distorted and actually sounds slower than the correct tempo.  I was wondering if this was due to perhaps an incompatibility with UAPP which tries to grab the S1 first, though after the S1 is connected to the phone, I close all apps, and then bring up Tidal.
> 
> ...



This distortion and slow playback could happen sometimes if you have another audio playback app open in the background.  Make sure everything else is closed.  Also, new S1 fw is coming soon with Tidal app fixes!


----------



## Mrblitz

twister6 said:


> I assume you are using it with Android phone?  Right now on S1 and S2, both loaded with the latest fw, I see OFS/4X with the latest Tidal app, and with UAPP it shows up with MQA/4X.


Twister, can you actually play tracks direct through Tidal without the distortion?

I have Tidal version 2.49.0.1045.4172


----------



## Mrblitz

twister6 said:


> This distortion and slow playback could happen sometimes if you have another audio playback app open in the background.  Make sure everything else is closed.  Also, new S1 fw is coming soon with Tidal app fixes!


I don't think any other app is running, but I'll check that. Good news about the new firmware! I thought it was down to Tidal adding support for DACs


----------



## Mrblitz

BobJS said:


> I get the same thing.  But I get the same distortion for any Tidal playback, not just MQA.   Do you?


Yes, same issue with any track, not just MQA


----------



## BobJS

twister6 said:


> This distortion and slow playback could happen sometimes if you have another audio playback app open in the background.  Make sure everything else is closed.  Also, new S1 fw is coming soon with Tidal app fixes!



That's what I thought, but I've closed all other apps.


----------



## Mrblitz

Just found this on Lotoo's Facebook page


----------



## musicday

I have added the link for the first firmware update for S2 few days ago on the S2 thread.


----------



## twister6

Just tested soon to be released new S1 fw, and it fixes issues with Tidal app.  Tested on my older Galaxy S9, works great, though it will show OFS/4x.  In UAPP shows MQA/4x.


----------



## x X x (Oct 29, 2021)

Hello. I am using S1 with my S10e and UAPP.

When playing music from UAPP my S1 shows that that all mp3/flac 16bit/24bit files are played in 32bit mode. Sampling is displayed correctly.
Second one: I messes something up and DSF files (5.6 MHz) are just noise.
Third one: sometimes, just after starting UAPP and start playing, the first moment of the played track is cut.

My setup is:

Internal audio driver > HiRes Direct driver
Internal HiRes audio
  HiRes driver flags > all off
  HiRes driver audio format> auto
  Bit perfect mode > on
  Upsample > off
 Buffer size > 600 ms
 Use with Bluetooth output > true
 Bypass system EQ and Dolby > true
 Limit cast to 48kHz > false
USB audio
  Upsample > off
  Bit perfect mode > on
  DSD mode > Native DSD
  High quality DSD conversion > true
  Limit sample rate > no limit
USB audio tweaks
  Use USB DAC > true
  Free USB bandwitch after playback > true
  Buffer size > 600 ms
  USB device speed > auto

All other options from these sections are off/default.


----------



## akde06

x X x said:


> Hello. I am using S1 with my S10e and UAPP.
> 
> When playing music from UAPP my S1 shows that that all mp3/flac 16bit/24bit files are played in 32bit mode. Sampling is displayed correctly.
> Second one: I messes something up and DSF files (5.6 MHz) are just noise.
> ...


Try DSD MODE > DoP


----------



## Mrblitz

twister6 said:


> Just tested soon to be released new S1 fw, and it fixes issues with Tidal app.  Tested on my older Galaxy S9, works great, though it will show OFS/4x.  In UAPP shows MQA/4x.


When will it be released?


----------



## jsmiller58

twister6 said:


> Just tested soon to be released new S1 fw, and it fixes issues with Tidal app.  Tested on my older Galaxy S9, works great, though it will show OFS/4x.  In UAPP shows MQA/4x.


Does the new FW change the attenuation at 12kHz and above?  I think it is important for consumers to know. - absolutely Lotoo has every right to exercise their creativity in the Implemenation of their product, but similarly consumers have a right to know.

FWIW - and it might not be worth much - my opinion is they should have made the 12kHz and above attenuation a tuning option for the consumer, an EQ preset.  But that is just my opinion.  I have the S1 but think I will pass on the S2 and stick with the L&P line of dongles for now, but look forward to Lotoo addressing this in which case I will reconsider.  My purchase decisions are inconsequential to Lotoo, and I am not saying this to take some sort of stand, just a personal choice…!


----------



## twister6

jsmiller58 said:


> Does the new FW change the attenuation at 12kHz and above?  I think it is important for consumers to know. - absolutely Lotoo has every right to exercise their creativity in the Implemenation of their product, but similarly consumers have a right to know.
> 
> FWIW - and it might not be worth much - my opinion is they should have made the 12kHz and above attenuation a tuning option for the consumer, an EQ preset.  But that is just my opinion.  I have the S1 but think I will pass on the S2 and stick with the L&P line of dongles for now, but look forward to Lotoo addressing this in which case I will reconsider.  My purchase decisions are inconsequential to Lotoo, and I am not saying this to take some sort of stand, just a personal choice…!



I wasn't aware of 12k being an issue until it was brought up in W2 thread lol!!!  Once you put a thought into someone's head, it is hard to get it out   To me, S1 and now S2 always had a smoother and more natural tonality, and apparently it is due to their tuning of keeping upper frequencies above 12k more attenuated down to give treble a more organic extension.  Sounds to me like a signature tuning, like some other DAPs or IEMs tuning.  S1 is similar to S2 in that regard.  If you want brighter treble, go for W2.


----------



## Rozzko

Does anyone playing on ps5 with paw s1? I tried and it’s good.


----------



## jwbrent

Rozzko said:


> Does anyone playing on ps5 with paw s1? I tried and it’s good.



One of the reasons I chose the S1 over the W2 was its ability to be used with my Switch. I haven’t tried it yet, but based on how good the S1 sounds to my ears, I anticipate it being good as well.


----------



## jsmiller58

twister6 said:


> I wasn't aware of 12k being an issue until it was brought up in W2 thread lol!!!  Once you put a thought into someone's head, it is hard to get it out   To me, S1 and now S2 always had a smoother and more natural tonality, and apparently it is due to their tuning of keeping upper frequencies above 12k more attenuated down to give treble a more organic extension.  Sounds to me like a signature tuning, like some other DAPs or IEMs tuning.  S1 is similar to S2 in that regard.  If you want brighter treble, go for W2.


Makes sense!  Like I mentioned, my position on this is purely my own - I would prefer the option to attenuate the frequencies if I want.  I do like the sound of the S1, so this is more of a personal decision based on wanting to be able to make significant choices on my own


----------



## jwbrent

Since there is a firmware update for the S1 coming, I hope Lotoo changes the sound filters to more usable ones. I find the current set to be way too strong for my taste.


----------



## twister6

jwbrent said:


> Since there is a firmware update for the S1 coming, I hope Lotoo changes the sound filters to more usable ones. I find the current set to be way too strong for my taste.



Those are presets carried over from LPGT and PAW6000, regardless of their usability


----------



## truchas

Hi!

I have a small problem that I cannot understand when I listen to music with Amazon Music HD on my macbook pro with Big Sur and the Lotoo Paw S1.
When I listen to a 24bit / 192kHz ULTRA HD song, it appears on the music quality screen of the Amazon Music app:

Song quality: 24bit / 192kHz
Device capacity: 24bit / 44.1KHz
Currently playing: 16bit / 44.1KHz
Codec: FLAC

This problem does not occur when I listen to music with the Amazon Music HD (IOS app) on my Iphone or Ipad, only with my macbook.
Any suggestion?
Thanks and greetings from Spain


----------



## bmoregnr (Nov 2, 2021)

truchas said:


> Hi!
> 
> I have a small problem that I cannot understand when I listen to music with Amazon Music HD on my macbook pro with Big Sur and the Lotoo Paw S1.
> When I listen to a 24bit / 192kHz ULTRA HD song, it appears on the music quality screen of the Amazon Music app:
> ...


I am guessing your macbook MIDI settings are set to 16/44.  It has been awhile since I paid attention to this, as I have a mac mini and use JRiver which does control bit/sample rate changes per the source, but I am guessing the macbook won't be controlled by the Amazon app, so you'd have to change your MIDI settings to 24/192, then anything less than that will be upsampled.  That or manually change it on the fly to match your source.  This is what Amazon notes:
*Which Mac devices support HD?*
Any Mac from 2013 or later supports HD/Ultra HD. However, adjusting the default Mac audio settings is required to listen in the highest quality:
1. Go to Applications/Utilities folder
2. Open “Audio MIDI Setup.app”
3. Update speaker or headphone “Format” setting to the highest sample rate for 24-bit (96 kHz or 192 kHz)


----------



## trez0r

New FW on Lotoo website! Bit-perfect in Tidal app works perfectly


----------



## musicday

trez0r said:


> New FW on Lotoo website! Bit-perfect in Tidal app works perfectly


Put a link so people can download it


----------



## twister6

musicday said:


> Put a link so people can download it



http://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html


----------



## truchas

bmoregnr said:


> I am guessing your macbook MIDI settings are set to 16/44.  It has been awhile since I paid attention to this, as I have a mac mini and use JRiver which does control bit/sample rate changes per the source, but I am guessing the macbook won't be controlled by the Amazon app, so you'd have to change your MIDI settings to 24/192, then anything less than that will be upsampled.  That or manually change it on the fly to match your source.  This is what Amazon notes:
> *Which Mac devices support HD?*
> Any Mac from 2013 or later supports HD/Ultra HD. However, adjusting the default Mac audio settings is required to listen in the highest quality:
> 1. Go to Applications/Utilities folder
> ...


Thanks 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻


----------



## truchas (Nov 2, 2021)

twister6 said:


> http://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html


Thanks for the link!

In my case, I have successfully updated with the new firmware to version 1.0.0.111.0.0.11 and with the Tidal app on the macbook pro, now it appears on the screen MQA / 4x and not OFS / 4x when I listen to a song MASTER ... but in the Tidal app of my iphone 13 pro, OFS / 4x appears and I also have micro-cuts of the song. Before the firmware update this did not happen. With the MConnect app it works perfectly, without cuts, and decodes the song well in MQA. I have the Lotoo USB-C to Lightning cable.
With my Ipad pro (USB-C) I have no microcuts but I still get OFS / 4x when I listen to a MASTER song and not MQA with Tidal app.
As for the simple rate, it appears the correct one in each song but not the bit depth normally puts the songs at 32bits even if they are at 16bits
Does the same thing happen to any of you?


----------



## Mrblitz

trez0r said:


> New FW on Lotoo website! Bit-perfect in Tidal app works perfectly


Great news, thanks! Will give it a try in the morning


----------



## jwbrent

truchas said:


> Thanks for the link!
> 
> In my case, I have successfully updated with the new firmware to version 1.0.0.111.0.0.11 and with the Tidal app on the macbook pro, now it appears on the screen MQA / 4x and not OFS / 4x when I listen to a song MASTER ... but in the Tidal app of my iphone 13 pro, OFS / 4x appears and I also have micro-cuts of the song. Before the firmware update this did not happen. With the MConnect app it works perfectly, without cuts, and decodes the song well in MQA. I have the Lotoo USB-C to Lightning cable.
> With my Ipad pro (USB-C) I have no microcuts but I still get OFS / 4x when I listen to a MASTER song and not MQA with Tidal app.
> ...



I believe the DAC used is a 32 bit design, so everything gets processed as 32 bit. This actually has no bearing on the sound since the digital signal is just padded with zeros above 24 bit.


----------



## audiosg

Anyone compared this to a Chord Mojo? I'm looking at these 2 options atm, any thoughts on audio quality differences?

The mojo is roughly 2x the price used in my country but both are relatively affordable so I dont mind either.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Nostoi (Dec 4, 2021)

Delete.


----------



## utdeep

Is there a firmware with line out coming for this?


----------



## waveSounds

That would be nice for sure but not sure I can see them doing it with the release of the S2 supporting that functionality. Takes away a major reason to purchase the newer, pricier model over the previous one. I am more than willing to be proved wrong, though.


----------



## utdeep

Is there any way to keep this in UAC1 mode?


----------



## Deferenz (Dec 20, 2021)

I went to change the Efx on my S1 but when I did it says ‘EFX: Disabled’. Does anyone else have this and were you able to fix it?

Update - it’s ok I solved it.


----------



## waveSounds

Did this happen when playing MQA tracks? It won't let you change/apply EFX settings with MQA.


----------



## Deferenz

waveSounds said:


> Did this happen when playing MQA tracks? It won't let you change/apply EFX settings with MQA.


Yes it did. I’ve just found that when it’s none MQA I can apply the efx. I didn’t realise you couldn’t apply them with MQA. At least I know now.


----------



## Charlyro222

Testing new line out mode with a good general impression


----------



## utdeep

I


Charlyro222 said:


> Testing new line out mode with a good general impression


is this for the Lotoo S1?


----------



## ssriram2791

utdeep said:


> I
> 
> is this for the Lotoo S1?


Yes. It just released today. Incredible to say the least (thought it was special to S2) !

@twister6  Lotoo has released Line out Mode for S1 as well. You may want to update your review when you get a chance. 

Release Notes


----------



## bmoregnr

Would using line out when attached to iPhone mean less power draw from the phone?  Curious if and when anyone has experience with that.


----------



## utdeep

This is suddenly the best deal in audio.


----------



## waveSounds

Charlyro222 said:


> Testing new line out mode with a good general impression



A man of good taste, I see


----------



## Fred5ek (Dec 21, 2021)

Lotoo paw S1 in the Line Out setting sounds less bearish, the bass is more controlled.


----------



## shyamelge

any link to download the latest firmware?


----------



## Fred5ek

shyamelge said:


> jakiś link do pobrania najnowszego oprogramowania?


http://www.lotoo.cn/english/bottom/Service/Download/Hi_Fi_Music_Player/2020/0715/95.html


----------



## max111

In the line out mode, the volume is very loud even if the phone volume is adjusted down to almost zero. Am I missing something?


----------



## shyamelge

max111 said:


> In the line out mode, the volume is very loud even if the phone volume is adjusted down to almost zero. Am I missing something?


I suppose Line out mode is meant for using it in an audio system having active speakers or an amplifier with passive speakers. It is not meant for using it directly with headphones.


----------



## max111

I see. Thanks for your clarification.


----------



## Fred5ek

max111 said:


> In the line out mode, the volume is very loud even if the phone volume is adjusted down to almost zero. Am I missing something?


This is how it should be, exactly at 100%, because this setting is not for headphones, but an external linear amplifier.


----------



## Nostoi

max111 said:


> In the line out mode, the volume is very loud even if the phone volume is adjusted down to almost zero. Am I missing something?


Line out mode is for an external amp. If you connect a pair of headphones - or worse, IEMs - you'll likely suffer damage to your ears, or at least develop a headache.


----------



## shyamelge

Does anyone know how much is the power output of line out mode?


----------



## Nostoi

I lost track of S1 developments, but great to see line out in new FW. Just tried it with a Cayin C9 and WP900 - very clean and dynamic sounding. Kudos to Lotoo for keeping things fresh.


----------



## Fred5ek

shyamelge said:


> Does anyone know how much is the power output of line out mode?


Line Out setting, not intended for low ohm loads, used for headphones, increased non-linear distortion.


----------



## jsmiller58

I am a little confused by all of the “line out” celebratory posts… Essentially, isn’t this line out basically max volume and turning all effects off?  This is a feature an S1 owner could have done on their own without FW update…. The FW makes it very quick and simple, but Lotoo did not actually provide any new functionality with this FW.

Or, am I missing something?


----------



## ssriram2791 (Dec 23, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> I am a little confused by all of the “line out” celebratory posts… Essentially, isn’t this line out basically max volume and turning all effects off?  This is a feature an S1 owner could have done on their own without FW update…. The FW makes it very quick and simple, but Lotoo did not actually provide any new functionality with this FW.
> 
> Or, am I missing something?


I played 1 song enabling lineout feature vs using pre-amp (use it as normal phone out) with Cayin C9 (Preamp Mode - 100% Volume on S1; Lineout - 100% Volume on C9)

I see about 3-4 dBA headroom in lineout mode, if that helps.

Edit: Forgot to add. Audio Technica ATH-R70X (High Gain on both S1 and C9)


----------



## bmoregnr (Dec 26, 2021)

jsmiller58 said:


> I am a little confused by all of the “line out” celebratory posts… Essentially, isn’t this line out basically max volume and turning all effects off?  This is a feature an S1 owner could have done on their own without FW update…. The FW makes it very quick and simple, but Lotoo did not actually provide any new functionality with this FW.
> 
> Or, am I missing something?


I only played the S2 line out about 30 min to a portable speaker with volume control but it seems far less battery drain from phone. Typically bypassing the op amp to avoid coloration is a key line out feature. Not sure the topology of this firmware and setup however. But for me when using this speaker setup it’ll be power use reasons where by comparison full volume if that was the test would cost more battery.


----------



## mayurs

Using the S1 in Line out mode to my Headamp Pico driving a pair of ER2XR and the sound to my ears is far better than what the little S1 can muster out on its own. This new Lineout feature makes the S1 a very good sounding and extremely versatile device, IMO.


----------



## Shooter86

Problem with tidal not solved yet?


----------



## waveSounds

There's lots of problems with Tidal, but I don't think they're up to Lotoo to fix 

Seriously though, what problem do you have with the S1 and Tidal?


----------



## Shooter86 (Jan 19, 2022)

waveSounds said:


> У Tidal много проблем, но я не думаю, что Lotoo сможет их исправить. :подмигивание:
> 
> А если серьезно, какие у вас проблемы с S1 и Tidal?


when connected, tidal offers to output sound through lotoo paw s1, but the sound of any song is crackling.


----------



## waveSounds

Ah yes, this was a problem but was sorted with a new firmware issue from Lotoo. If you update to 1.0.0.12 that should fix the crackling.


----------



## Shooter86

waveSounds said:


> Ах да, это была проблема, но она была решена новой прошивкой от Lotoo. Если вы обновитесь до 1.0.0.12, это должно исправить треск.


Решил проблему новой прошивкой, спасибо. интересно звук отличается от USB Audio Player PRO?

solved the problem with a new firmware, thanks.  wondering the sound is different from USB Audio Player PRO?


----------



## Shooter86

But how to use the line-out in the new firmware?


----------



## Shooter86

Shooter86 said:


> А как использовать линейный выход в новой прошивке?


сам разобрался . figured it out myself


----------



## waveSounds

Shooter86 said:


> Решил проблему новой прошивкой, спасибо. интересно звук отличается от USB Audio Player PRO?
> 
> solved the problem with a new firmware, thanks.  wondering the sound is different from USB Audio Player PRO?



I wouldn't worry about it. I can't hear a difference, but you'll always find anecdotal evidence from those that say they can. What side of the bed you got out of in the morning probably has a bigger impact.


----------



## Deferenz

Does anyone know if you can connect the S1 to the iPhone 13 Pro Max by using the DDHifi adapter TC28i ?


----------



## NJoyzAudio

Deferenz said:


> Does anyone know if you can connect the S1 to the iPhone 13 Pro Max by using the DDHifi adapter TC28i ?


Deferenz

Yes, I have both the S1 and S2 and this adapter works on both, and is my preferred connector for using with Lightning Port Apple products.


----------



## Deferenz

NJoyzAudio said:


> Deferenz
> 
> Yes, I have both the S1 and S2 and this adapter works on both, and is my preferred connector for using with Lightning Port Apple products.


Thanks @NJoyzAudio for answering that.


----------



## sebek

Is Lotoo Paw S1 still competitive against the new S2, W2 and RU6?


----------



## twister6

sebek said:


> Is Lotoo Paw S1 still competitive against the new S2, W2 and RU6?



Everybody will have their own personal opinion about this, often driven by pair up synergy.  I tried to be more neutral in comparisons covering all three in my S2 and RU6 corresponding reviews.


----------



## kemba1291

I just got a new paw s1, can't seem to update the firmware to 1.0.0.12.

Keeps saying there is no space in the drive.


----------



## kemba1291

kemba1291 said:


> I just got a new paw s1, can't seem to update the firmware to 1.0.0.12.
> 
> Keeps saying there is no space in the drive.


Reminder, this is a brand new fresh piece. So I am still on 1.0.0.7 firmware if that matters


----------



## kemba1291

kemba1291 said:


> I just got a new paw s1, can't seem to update the firmware to 1.0.0.12.
> 
> Keeps saying there is no space in the drive.



okay, got it work. Had to upgrade all firmwares from 1.0.0.7 onwards sequentially. On 1.0.0.12 now.


----------



## twister6

kemba1291 said:


> I just got a new paw s1, can't seem to update the firmware to 1.0.0.12.
> 
> Keeps saying there is no space in the drive.



Assuming you got a used S1 or the unit that was collecting dust on the shelf since summer of 2020, you can't upgrade from 1.0.0.7 to 1.0.0.12.  You need to go in sequential order with every upgrade in the middle from http://www.lotoo.cn/about/fuwu/xiazaizhuanqu/yinlebofangqi/20200519/94.html

The reason for that, old 1.0.0.7 doesn't know about MOA, and they changed image size.  So, you have to go through every intermediate fw update to get to 1.0.0.12.


----------



## kemba1291

twister6 said:


> Assuming you got a used S1 or the unit that was collecting dust on the shelf since summer of 2020, you can't upgrade from 1.0.0.7 to 1.0.0.12.  You need to go in sequential order with every upgrade in the middle from http://www.lotoo.cn/about/fuwu/xiazaizhuanqu/yinlebofangqi/20200519/94.html
> 
> The reason for that, old 1.0.0.7 doesn't know about MOA, and they changed image size.  So, you have to go through every intermediate fw update to get to 1.0.0.12.


Thanks for the help. I realized that eventually. I thought I would just stay on 1.0.0.10 or 11 until I get some response, but after I updated in order, the latest firmware was copied with no errors.

One thing can I ask you?
Do you feel the paw s1 is overtly smooth? I mean I love the staging and dynamics, but I keep feeling the volume is a little on the lower side for some frequencies (not using EQ). Same IEMs and headphones sound much more euphonic on my other DACs, even on the hip dac 2 which is a inherently warm model. Like I feel I don't want to go higher volume, but there is a definite loss of.... idk, edgyness, I guess is the right word?


----------



## twister6

kemba1291 said:


> Thanks for the help. I realized that eventually. I thought I would just stay on 1.0.0.10 or 11 until I get some response, but after I updated in order, the latest firmware was copied with no errors.
> 
> One thing can I ask you?
> Do you feel the paw s1 is overtly smooth? I mean I love the staging and dynamics, but I keep feeling the volume is a little on the lower side for some frequencies (not using EQ). Same IEMs and headphones sound much more euphonic on my other DACs, even on the hip dac 2 which is a inherently warm model. Like I feel I don't want to go higher volume, but there is a definite loss of.... idk, edgyness, I guess is the right word?



S1/S2 are smoother, I mentioned that in my S2 review; their treble is more natural, slightly attenuated and more polite relative to W2 and RU6.  So, it works quite well with neutral and brighter tuned IEMs.  If you have warm IEMs to begin with, you might find their pair up synergy with S1 to be more laidback.


----------



## jsmiller58 (Mar 7, 2022)

kemba1291 said:


> Thanks for the help. I realized that eventually. I thought I would just stay on 1.0.0.10 or 11 until I get some response, but after I updated in order, the latest firmware was copied with no errors.
> 
> One thing can I ask you?
> Do you feel the paw s1 is overtly smooth? I mean I love the staging and dynamics, but I keep feeling the volume is a little on the lower side for some frequencies (not using EQ). Same IEMs and headphones sound much more euphonic on my other DACs, even on the hip dac 2 which is a inherently warm model. Like I feel I don't want to go higher volume, but there is a definite loss of.... idk, edgyness, I guess is the right word?


I am not sure if this will answer your question, but there have been measurements that indicate the S1 intentionally reduces the upper frequencies (giving the S1 a warmer sound).  Perhaps that is what you are hearing?


----------



## Gilles De Rais

Don’t forget that with the DSP (called EFX on the S1) you can alter the sound profile, albeit only in limited ways. Most users on here were using the Dental mode to give a lift in treble energy.


----------



## kemba1291

jsmiller58 said:


> I am not sure if this will answer your question, but there have been measurements that indicate the S1 intentionally reduces the upper frequencies (giving the S1 a warmer sound).  Perhaps that is what you are hearing?


I think this might be it, but I think even the mids and bass are very smooth and rounded. Which isn't bad at all, just different than other DACs i have experienced.

Any place where I can see these measurements?


----------



## jsmiller58

kemba1291 said:


> I think this might be it, but I think even the mids and bass are very smooth and rounded. Which isn't bad at all, just different than other DACs i have experienced.
> 
> Any place where I can see these measurements?


I did a quick search and could not find the measurements that had been referred to - there were references to the S1 & S2 measurements on the L&P W1/W2 thread that indicated frequencies above 12kHz were attenuated, but I couldn’t find the actual measurements.  However, I did find this website mentioned that shows and discusses the impact of the different presets on the S1 sound signature (and also mentions how the S1 is a warm sounding dongle):  https://www.klauseulenbach.de/2020/06/27/lotoo-paw-s1-filter-presets/

It all really boils down to personal preference, of course.


----------



## uncletim (Mar 24, 2022)

My S1 has been sitting for a while, how can I find the current firmware it is running?

I was going to put 1.0.0.12, I guess I have to go in order.

edit- see it when plugged into PC 1.0.0.10


----------



## ActuallySparky

Has anyone else experience an infrequent popping noise with the S1? I saw someone mentioned crackling with Tidal (which I'm using), but I'm on the latest v12 firmware, so I thought that had been fixed?


----------



## H T T

ActuallySparky said:


> Has anyone else experience an infrequent popping noise with the S1? I saw someone mentioned crackling with Tidal (which I'm using), but I'm on the latest v12 firmware, so I thought that had been fixed?


I have on occasion. I notice it when I am changing the volume rapidly.


----------



## ActuallySparky

H T T said:


> I have on occasion. I notice it when I am changing the volume rapidly.


Alas, it happens for me while just listening. Sometimes the pop is loud enough to momentarily hurt. I've stopped using the PAW S1 until the next firmware as I am scared I'll hurt my hearing if I keep going. It's a shame because aside from the pops, I love the sound sig of the S1.


----------



## ducnsh

ActuallySparky said:


> Alas, it happens for me while just listening. Sometimes the pop is loud enough to momentarily hurt. I've stopped using the PAW S1 until the next firmware as I am scared I'll hurt my hearing if I keep going. It's a shame because aside from the pops, I love the sound sig of the S1.


I have seen that you are using RU6 with Nio, can you compare Ru6 and S1 when pairing with Nio? Thanks!


----------



## ActuallySparky

ducnsh said:


> I have seen that you are using RU6 with Nio, can you compare Ru6 and S1 when pairing with Nio? Thanks!


Sure! The RU6 is a bit more laid back - the treble and soundstage are a bit more diffuse and wide with the Nio than on the S1; I find this feels more spacious to me. The S1 is crisper and has a hint more clarity with the Nio, but that comes at the expense of being more fatiguing and a little less pleasant to my tastes. The RU-6 clarity/treble in OS mode is closer to the S1, NOS mode is a little further from it. Both the RU6 and S1 have a rumbly low end with lots of punch and impact for a dongle. Both have a very pleasing midrange with very natural vocals. The S1 is every so slightly more 'digital', but it's not bad in that regard.

My preference is for the RU6, particularly for longer listening sessions. Those that appreciate clarity and detail over timbre and stage will likely enjoy the Lotoo a bit more.


----------



## ducnsh

ActuallySparky said:


> Sure! The RU6 is a bit more laid back - the treble and soundstage are a bit more diffuse and wide with the Nio than on the S1; I find this feels more spacious to me. The S1 is crisper and has a hint more clarity with the Nio, but that comes at the expense of being more fatiguing and a little less pleasant to my tastes. The RU-6 clarity/treble in OS mode is closer to the S1, NOS mode is a little further from it. Both the RU6 and S1 have a rumbly low end with lots of punch and impact for a dongle. Both have a very pleasing midrange with very natural vocals. The S1 is every so slightly more 'digital', but it's not bad in that regard.
> 
> My preference is for the RU6, particularly for longer listening sessions. Those that appreciate clarity and detail over timbre and stage will likely enjoy the Lotoo a bit more.


Have you tried any ATEQ on S1?


----------



## ActuallySparky

ducnsh said:


> Have you tried any ATEQ on S1?


Yeah, they are kinda hit or miss for me. Near Field is nice because of a lil crossfeed, The crossfeed options do help tame the sharp treble a little bit and relax the sound. Overall I prefer less-processed sound. The S1 is already "trying harder" than the RU6.


----------



## mayurs

My Lotoo Paw S1 works flawlessly with my iPad air and windows 10 laptop, but out of my 2 plus year old Realme 6 smartphone  the sound is continuously intermittent, like that when a CD skips. Now, is this is a problem due to the current draw from the S1 or is my phone hardware problematic? Some insight here will be very helpful.

Now I think it's the S1 and the phone combination that is creating a problem so am contemplating buying some other dongle to use with my phone, but am not sure if the same problem will be repeated with the other dongle as well.


----------



## bmoregnr

mayurs said:


> My Lotoo Paw S1 works flawlessly with my iPad air and windows 10 laptop, but out of my 2 plus year old Realme 6 smartphone  the sound is continuously intermittent, like that when a CD skips. Now, is this is a problem due to the current draw from the S1 or is my phone hardware problematic? Some insight here will be very helpful.
> 
> Now I think it's the S1 and the phone combination that is creating a problem so am contemplating buying some other dongle to use with my phone, but am not sure if the same problem will be repeated with the other dongle as well.


Have you tried it with the phone in airplane mode?  I’ve experienced clicks that could be perceived as CD skips when iPhone is not in airplane mode.


----------



## CANiSLAYu

Shameless plug for one I have for sale here for anyone interested.


----------



## sanakimpro

Hi guys, with the PAW S2 out, do you know if the pocket clip works with S1? I have the L&P W2 and Lotoo S1 so don't wanna get a new dongle but just want the clip


----------



## iFi audio

sanakimpro said:


> Hi guys, with the PAW S2 out, do you know if the pocket clip works with S1? I have the L&P W2 and Lotoo S1 so don't wanna get a new dongle but just want the clip



Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but both the S1 and S2 look alike, so that pocket clip should work with the S2 I imagine!


----------



## uncletim

I was going to use my S1 temporary from PC to Schiit Sys and my powered speakers, could never get Line-out mode, just keep it at 100% volume, same thing? 

I have the latest firmware


----------



## AlexCBSN

uncletim said:


> I was going to use my S1 temporary from PC to Schiit Sys and my powered speakers, could never get Line-out mode, just keep it at 100% volume, same thing?
> 
> I have the latest firmware


Unplug any 3.5/ 4.4 cables you have plugged, connect the s1 to the source, use the fn button until you see the line out mode, press the + volume button and then plug the cable.


----------



## uncletim

AlexCBSN said:


> Unplug any 3.5/ 4.4 cables you have plugged, connect the s1 to the source, use the fn button until you see the line out mode, press the + volume button and then plug the cable.



Thank you, I guess I was hitting the Fn button too fast. *huge* difference. it's was sounding awful the other way. 

will it stay in this mode?


----------



## OLGRO (Aug 3, 2022)

Hi everybody. I recently bought a Lotoo PAW S1. I love the sound coming from this little device. I works flawlessly plugged into different MAC computers. Unfortunately I can't use it with my Fiio M7 (Android 7/Fiio Music App). The M7 confirms the connection of an USB device but obviously doesn't send any data to the S1. Sound of silence. Both devices run the latest firmware. USB out is activated. I didn't fiddle with Fiio's OS so far because the player works flawlessly as it is. Also I don't know much about Android after all.

Can anybody help me out here?
THANKS IN ADVANCE

Interestingly the venerable Meridian Explorer (MK I) connected to the M7 instantly. Soundwise it's an interesting pairing. Much more enjoyable than M7 solo. You need an extra amp though. The Explorer doesn't have its own buttons for volume control. And Fiio deactivates volume control on USB out. Also, after a while, the Fiio might black out.


----------



## Dobrescu George

OLGRO said:


> Hi everybody. I recently bought a Lotoo PAW S1. I love the sound coming from this little device. I works flawlessly plugged into different MAC computers. Unfortunately I can't use it with my Fiio M7 (Android 7/Fiio Music App). The M7 confirms the connection of an USB device but obviously doesn't send any data to the S1. Sound of silence. Both devices run the latest firmware. USB out is activated. I didn't fiddle with Fiio's OS so far because the player works flawlessly as it is. Also I don't know much about Android after all.
> 
> Can anybody help me out here?
> THANKS IN ADVANCE
> ...



I don't think it will work with M7 in particular (?) 

Had this happen in he past, with portable music players, it is either they see it or not (?)


----------



## OLGRO

Okay. Thank you!

So, connecting a dap to a dac via USB is generally a matter of trial and error? The outcome of a specific pairing is unpredictable?

Let's say I wanted a portable transport (dap, no phone) for the Lotoo PAW S1. Then I would not know which specific brand/model to pick... Unless someone did already test it and report the results.


----------



## uncletim

Interesting my monitors will not sleep with the S1 plugged into USB3 port and in line-out mode on my PC. 

confirmed they sleep with it not plugged in. no power management listed for the S1, tried changing USB settings and same thing.


----------



## Sluggist

Hey everyone. I have the Paw s1... Just asking here to be safe.... Can I use the 4.4 as a line out ? I have a Douk u5 amp coming and I was wondering if I can use the paw s1 with that using the 4.4 balanced out to stereo L/R XLR ( 3-core, female) (Douk U5's input)


----------



## Sulbh

Hi Is Paw S2 worth upgrading if you have Paw S1?


----------



## musicday

Sulbh said:


> Hi Is Paw S2 worth upgrading if you have Paw S1?


Definitely, more power and better sound and added features.


----------



## Sulbh

musicday said:


> Definitely, more power and better sound and added features.


Have you compared them personally?


----------



## akde06

musicday said:


> Definitely, more power and better sound and added features.


Very subtle difference between s1 & s2 in SQ. It is better to stick to S1


----------



## Sulbh

akde06 said:


> Very subtle difference between s1 & s2 in SQ. It is better to stick to S1


Did you compare them personally?


----------



## akde06

Sulbh said:


> Did you compare them personally?


Yes. I have two models S1 & S2. The only difference is extra feature of easier LO option in S2 while LO in S1 is farmware based & little bit cumbersome but still easy to enter. Go for S1. Soundwise almost same. Can't differentiate.


----------



## Dobrescu George

Sulbh said:


> Hi Is Paw S2 worth upgrading if you have Paw S1?



I have them side by side too. 

I'd say it is a worthwhile investment, better sonics, better driving power. The main tuning or sonic signature is similar, but if you have revealing / detailed headphones / IEMs, you would probably want to go with S2. S1 is still a good dongle DAC AMP.


----------



## Sulbh

akde06 said:


> Yes. I have two models S1 & S2. The only difference is extra feature of easier LO option in S2 while LO in S1 is farmware based & little bit cumbersome but still easy to enter. Go for S1. Soundwise almost same. Can't differentiate.


Do you have any other dongle DACs you can compare it with?


----------



## akde06

L&


Sulbh said:


> Do you have any other dongle DACs you can compare it with?





Sulbh said:


> Do you have any other dongle DACs you can compare it with?


L&P w2 dac. Better than S1&S2. Of course much pricey. But S1 value for money which is 90% of SQ of L&P w2. Don't confuse regarding SQ. As we grow ability to discern HF diminishes too. As per my understanding too much fuss about SQ make someone confused & ultimately makes mistakes. Hope i am able to clarify you. Good day.


----------



## Sulbh

Dobrescu George said:


> I have them side by side too.
> 
> I'd say it is a worthwhile investment, better sonics, better driving power. The main tuning or sonic signature is similar, but if you have revealing / detailed headphones / IEMs, you would probably want to go with S2. S1 is still a good dongle DAC AMP.


Do you have any other dongle DACs you can compare it to?


----------



## Sulbh

Hi can anyone confirm if we can use 4.4mm balanced to 3.5 mm adapter with the S1? I think we cannot use balanced to unblanced adapters on sony players. Is it same with the S1?


----------



## AlexCBSN

Sulbh said:


> Hi can anyone confirm if we can use 4.4mm balanced to 3.5 mm adapter with the S1? I think we cannot use balanced to unblanced adapters on sony players. Is it same with the S1?


It's the same with every device


----------



## Sulbh

AlexCBSN said:


> It's the same with every device


So only way is to buy balanced cables?


----------



## Gilles De Rais

Sulbh said:


> Hi can anyone confirm if we can use 4.4mm balanced to 3.5 mm adapter with the S1? I think we cannot use balanced to unblanced adapters on sony players. Is it same with the S1?


I guess the question is why? The S1 has both 4.4mm and 3.5mm ports. Plugging a 4.4mm into a 3.5mm adapter to use with a S1 seems superfluous...


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## sanakimpro

Gilles De Rais said:


> I guess the question is why? The S1 has both 4.4mm and 3.5mm ports. Plugging a 4.4mm into a 3.5mm adapter to use with a S1 seems superfluous...


Conventionally, use the 3.5mm ports for SE and 4.4mm for bal. 

You can connect balanced headphones (2.5mm/4.4mm) to unbalanced ports (3.5mm) because it ties the ground terminal together and nothing bad happens
But if you connect unbalanced (3.5mm) to balanced ports (2.5mm/4.4mm) through the 3.5mm , it can potentially damage the amp because you are shorting the left amp and right circuits


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## akde06

sanakimpro said:


> Conventionally, use the 3.5mm ports for SE and 4.4mm for bal.
> 
> You can connect balanced headphones (2.5mm/4.4mm) to unbalanced ports (3.5mm) because it ties the ground terminal together and nothing bad happens
> But if you connect unbalanced (3.5mm) to balanced ports (2.5mm/4.4mm) through the 3.5mm , it can potentially damage the amp because you are shorting the left amp and right circuits


Yes. That's the catch. Thanks for info.


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## Sulbh

sanakimpro said:


> Conventionally, use the 3.5mm ports for SE and 4.4mm for bal.
> 
> You can connect balanced headphones (2.5mm/4.4mm) to unbalanced ports (3.5mm) because it ties the ground terminal together and nothing bad happens
> But if you connect unbalanced (3.5mm) to balanced ports (2.5mm/4.4mm) through the 3.5mm , it can potentially damage the amp because you are shorting the left amp and right circuits


Not all headphones support balanced cables?


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## sanakimpro

Sulbh said:


> Not all headphones support balanced cables?


Yes


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## Sluggist

Palash said:


> I have tried but S1 doesn't recognized by Tempotec V1 and V1-A.


Hey. I know your post is old but I'm having the same issue. did you ever find out what the issue was ?

My Tempotec V1 (the one without a dac) can't recognize the Lotoo paw S1. What's weird is it used to be able to. I tried different cables, but nothing is working. I've also tried to tinker with the settings and what not, to no avail.


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