# Holo Audio Spring R2R DAC



## mtoc

Two modes: NOS or DSD. Built by resistors.
  


  
  
*




*
   
*SNR*
*



*
  
   
*THD@1K@NOS*
*



*
   
*THD@1K@DSD*
*



*
   
*THD+N@5K@NOS（0.00068%）*
*



*
   
  
*THD+N@5K@DSD（0.00050%）*
*



*
   
  
*NOS FFT SPECTRUM*
*



*
   
  
*DSD FFT SPECTRUM*
*



*


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## turo91

They don't have a web site?


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## Currawong

https://www.facebook.com/wildismaudiohk/posts/1723144021264279
  
 from the look of things. 
  
 ~US$1500 or so for the best version, if I am reading correctly.


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## bimmer100

Got one of these on the way , maybe next week. Rise Ji edition.
Excited to get it!


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## bimmer100

I ordered mine with the 500 dollar upgrade over the rise Ji edition. It's Jensen caps but also pure silver primary and secondary 100va o core ! This transformer noticeably increases the sound quality by lowering the noise floor even more! It's not offered by many resellers, but I have good relationship with the company who makes the transfomers for holo audio. So I ordered mine custom made  
And understand it's quite a nice increase in performance! I can get these for a bit over 2k shipped. so far I have read reviews that say this DAC blows the competition away. Jeff zhu was saying the DAC has very tights voltsge regulation that is less than .2uV and combined with the high quality audio grade o-core transformer it allows this discrete DAC to outperform all nos dacs and r2r dacs. It has two dedicated discrete resistor networks on one DAC module. The first time ever in history a DAC is able to process both pcm and dsd native with one DAC. It's a true 24bit DAC. 0bit being the lsb (least significant bit) and 23bit being the msb(most significant bit). So pair this with an excellent dedicated pre amp. I'm going to use my m11 or soon to be nos11 for the amp. 
Also this DAC currently supports on Mac and Linux full native dsd256!!! And will support dsd256 natively for Windows in about a month from now. 
Anyone interested in this DAC or would would want to write s review? I might consider to ship it to you if you have experience doing reviews or capable of doing an in depth review. I would like to help Jeff @ Holo Audio to get more exposure for his products in the USA.


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## defbear

I have been thinking of replacing my Bimby with an Yggy. But this looks interesting. I've been looking at yggy since it first came out but something keeps holding me back. This HOLO DAC does NOS and DSD?


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## bimmer100

defbear said:


> I have been thinking of replacing my Bimby with an Yggy. But this looks interesting. I've been looking at yggy since it first came out but something keeps holding me back. This HOLO DAC does NOS and DSD?




This Holo audio spring DAC is pretty unique as it has two dedicated resistor networks in the DAC module. One is specifically for dsd!!! And one is for pcm!
So the dsd native is being processed by a discrete resistor network! And boy oh boy does it sound good!

Officially it's to support dsd256. It had plans for dsd512 but Sony dropped dsd and went with dxd. Nobody makes dad512 and likely the death of dsd format. But Jeff may offer dsd512 upsampling in his next DAC release.
This spring DAC allows upsampling but imho I'm a nos guy and this DAC sounds it's best in nos. specifically in dsd as the audio path is most pure with no src is in the way. 
In my opinion this DAC sounds better than the yggy. And for a nos DAC, it has a very wide sound stage that is accurate and precise. Which normally isn't common on nos dacs. No question the best sounding nos DAC I've ever heard. 


Anyhow, it's a LOT of DAC for the money. Adding the solid 4N silver transformer is a chunk of dough but I think it's worth it. It really allows the power implementation to perform the way it was intended. It's not a subtle difference is what I'm saying.


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## InsanityOne

turo91 said:


> They don't have a web site?


 
  
 I just saw this DAC here: http://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacgreen/ It looks like they have three versions of it. If this thing is as good as it sounds maybe I will just keep saving the money I was working up for my Gungir's Multi-bit upgrade and just step-up to one of these things? I would love to hear / see some reviews of it from fellow Head-Fi members or some other outside sources.
  
 - InsanityOne


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## defbear

I just ordered the Holo Spring DAC Stage 3 from kitsunehifi.com. HERE. It should ship late August. I'm hoping middle September. A resistor ladder for NOS and another discrete ladder for DSD.  I hope this DAC is as End Game as I hope it is!


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## rigo

Any pictures of the back inputs/outputs?


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## kazcou

rigo said:


> Any pictures of the back inputs/outputs?


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## InsanityOne

rigo said:


> Any pictures of the back inputs/outputs?


 
  
 Here is an album of just photos of the unit itself (not performance graphs or anything) courtesy of http://kitsunehifi.com/ and various other sources:
  
  


Spoiler: Warning: High Quality Photos Inside!




  
 (Non-rendered Photo Of The Spring DAC - Blue Display LEDs)
  

  
 (Spring DAC Front)
  

  
 (Spring DAC Right)
  

  
 (Spring DAC Left)
  

  
 ("Spring" Logo)
  

  
 (Spring DAC Button Options)
  

  
 (Spring DAC Feet)
  

  
 (“Rise Ji Edition” With Red Label Transfomer)
  

  
 (“Rise Ji Edition” With Green Label Silver Transfomer)
  

  
 (Base Model Power Capacitors)
  

  
 (The Beauty Of Discrete R2R)
  

  
 (R2R)
  

  
 (R2R - 2)
  

  
 (R2R - 3)
  

  
 (R2R - 4)
  

  
 ("A small Talema is ONLY used for standby power. The Spring DAC was designed to be POWER EFFICIENT")
  

  
 (Take notice of the custom HOLO Audio IC's)
  

  
 (Jensen Caps 4700uF 63V)
  

  
 (Red Label O-Core 100VA)
  

  
 (Red Label Transformers)
  

  
 (Prototype(?) Spring DAC Input / Output Rear I/O)
  

  
 ("No off the shelf USB modules, this one is HOLO Audio brand.")
  

  
 (Prototype(?) Spring DAC Rear USB / Input Area)


  
 As far as I can tell the Spring DAC has:
  

1x Set of RCA (Single-Ended) Outputs
1x Set of XLR (Balanced) Outputs
1x AES/EBU Input
1x Coaxial Input
1x TOSLINK Input
1x BNC Input
1x HDMI/I2S(?) Input
1x USB Input
  
 Edit: Awe... Ninja'd by @kazcou
  
 - InsanityOne


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## rigo

kazcou said:


>




Nice thanks!


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## defbear

I have been posting here and there looking for a new DAC for quite a while. And asking about Yggy. Yggy is made in the USA and has great service and upgradability. What's my problem? I think Schiit has something new up their sleeves. It's why I didn't purchase a Liquid Gold. Cavalli has new things in the future. I get the vibe that the Holo Audio Spring is the current "Hot Ticket" So I've rolled the nickel on the upgraded level 3 Rise Ji plus or whatever. I went out looking for the hot ticket before and purchased a master 11 and liquid carbon. So far so good. I'm planning on using it with both my master 11 and microZOTL.


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## Currawong

I don't think Schiit is going to suddenly announce a new high-end DAC. They've said as much. I'm curious though how this DAC compares to the Master 11.


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## kazcou

Really interested by this DAC.
  
 Otherwise, I can not find any benefit of a silver main transformer.
 In this kind of transformer, even audio note, lundalh or tango do not use silver.
 So, I think I will go with a level 1 or 2 DAC.
  
   
But before that, I am waiting for a serious review.


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## defbear

currawong said:


> I don't think Schiit is going to suddenly announce a new high-end DAC. They've said as much. I'm curious though how this DAC compares to the Master 11.


Thank you, that is good to know about Schiit. I have not heard Yggy but I did hear a Gumby. Gumby sounded very good yet very familiar. Perhaps the Master 11 Dac or even my Bimby are that good. I promise to compare the Holo Dac (I'm dense this weekend. I just got it. The Holodac! Where's Picard?) once I get it. Perhaps it will be time for me to join in and do a proper Review.


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## defbear

kazcou said:


> Really interested by this DAC.
> 
> Otherwise, I can not find any benefit of a silver main transformer.
> In this kind of transformer, even audio note, lundalh or tango do not use silver.
> ...


Yup could be all hype. For me, in For a dime, in for a dollar. But what convinced me to go for the silver (Yo Rio) is power. I found some of those ridiculous thick Pangea cords do sound better. Especially with my hdvd800 Sennheiser Dac/amp. Night and day. But the biggest shock was when I bought a used PSAudio P300 power regenerator. No doubt about it. My Master11 is a different unit powered by the P300 Every buzzword you can think of. So, heck yeah! Silver wire, transformer. You bet. But I gave the level 2 a good look. The bitsy bit of extra sound may not be worth the not so bitsy bit of extra money. I would be quite happy with a level 2. I will write a review after I get it and can write intelligently about it. Beam me up Holodac.


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## Hi-Phi

So I just received my Holo Audio _Kitsune tuned_ Spring DAC last week…
  
Coming from a delta sigma experience I was really keep on hearing the difference between that and R2R. Yes, I have heard some R2R DACs before but those times were at show and meet conditions so I did not get the chance to fully indulge in their greatness. Hint: I think you know where this is going.
  
From what I understand when reading about the technology this DAC possesses; It has a new patented technology that combines segmenting and trimming technology that is found on many R2R DAC yet this DAC uses both technology's. It has dual resistor networks for pcm. And the kicker is that it has two resistor networks for dsd. Yes, this DAC does dsd over R2R! It’s just something you need to hear to understand how sweet it sounds!  
  
The Spring supports up to dsd512 native with the newest firmware update, although mine will do dsd256 native on a Mac or Linux and I'm told will have support for native dsd256 in Windows by the end of August.
  
*Highs*
The highs are full of precise details and natural nuances that flow effortlessly without sounding smoothed over or fatiguing. They are lifelike and natural, more-so than most syrupy older generation R2R DACs that I have heard. They don’t pierce your ears at all; they just fill in the upper region of sound very well but also retain great attack. 
  
*Mids*
The mids are pure butter on the Spring. They are incredibly flowy and natural sounding. Guitar comes through very smooth and lush sounding. Vocals are tremendously close sounding. On _Vanessa Fernandez- Be Thankful for What You Got, _you can feel the presence and urgency in her voice. Because of this the music comes out less like a recording and more like a live concert just for you. To sum it up, the mids are really smooth, dynamic and the presentation makes all music sound more life-like. 
  
*Bass*
Tight. The bass was never a big feature on the HD 800s but after living with the Mytek I sort of accepted the fact and hoped that one day that would change. After listening to a few reference bass tracks (both upright bass and electric bass) I was staggered. The lower region really comes together nicely on the Spring and I noticed the smoothness and finesse come through once again. These things just cruise through complicated bass lines and hold it together with precision. Bass is extremely textured and is very multi-layered. It is very easy to hear each individual layer in the low end, there is absolutely no smearing. The transitions are smooth and do not disrupt the mid-range. 
  
*Treble *
The treble has no hints of harshness. The reason I know this is because I listened to the DAC for 4-6 hours a day and I found the sound is not be fatiguing at all. It doesn’t sound smoothed over or lacking in detail it just has a level of precision and accuracy accompanied by smooth presentation. You get all the detail but without the harshness!
  
*Soundstage*
The only pair of cans I have at the moment are the HD800 S which I have modified slightly with a Draug 2 cable from Norne audio as well as some internal modifications. The HD800s have a vast soundstage which some people sound to be annoying with certain rigs. Some have said that everything sounds like a concert hall, even some jazz pieces. What I experienced with the Spring is that the sound is not bound by a room size – it just travels out into the abyss very freely. I personally really enjoy the soundstage and it was a revelation coming from the Mytek to this. Instrument separation was on of the most impressive things to me. I could hear every instrument as an independent source of sound in the music and could break down the track instrument by instrument. I loved that. 
  
*Presentation *
The Spring DAC certainly shows no signs of digititus commonly found with delta sigma type DACs like the Mytek. This DAC may possibly be the most natural and accurate sounding DAC I've ever heard. The measurements show perfect linearity and quite possibly the lowest THD of any NOS DAC. Due to the perfect linearity of the DAC its presentation is very neutral and uncolored therefore its clear why it gives a very accurate and natural presentation.
  
*Closing*
I am at the end of the break in period and am extraordinarily pleased with this DAC. Feel free to contact me with any questions or things that I may have missed in my review. I think the logical next step is to order a Singxer SU-1. I have heard amazing things about it and it seems to me that kitsunehifi is the only site that carries it in my local.


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## biosailor

Super review, Hi-Phi, thanks a lot! I became truly interested in this DAC. Presently, I am running an Aqua La Voce S2 DAC, and I was thinking of upgrading to the La Scala (same company). But the Spring DAC could be a true alternative, and you did make me reconsider my plans!
 One question, though: what is the Singxer SU-1 intended for?


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## defbear

Thank you Hi-Phi for the great review. My Holo 3 is still 2-3 weeks out.


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## Hi-Phi

biosailor said:


> Super review, Hi-Phi, thanks a lot! I became truly interested in this DAC. Presently, I am running an Aqua La Voce S2 DAC, and I was thinking of upgrading to the La Scala (same company). But the Spring DAC could be a true alternative, and you did make me reconsider my plans!
> One question, though: what is the Singxer SU-1 intended for?


 
  
 You should totally try it. I think that these days dacs are climbing to prices that are just totally unreal. I think that dollar for dollar the spring is undervalued when you compare it to other super dacs. I have heard many people say that the Schiit Yiggy is not even in the same ballpark. Others have also said that this is at the level of the Chord DAVE. 
  
 The singxer su-1 is an interesting device. Not only does it isolate the noise from the source to the dac but it also converts from usb to hdmi.  It essentially reconstructs the signal and sends it out to the dac through hdmi. It supposedly gives you a flawless, super black and resolved signal into your dac. Think of it as a signal conditioner for your dac. 


defbear said:


> Thank you Hi-Phi for the great review. My Holo 3 is still 2-3 weeks out.


 
 Level three, excellent choice! I am really excited to hear what you think about it.


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## biosailor

hi-phi said:


> You should totally try it. I think that these days dacs are climbing to prices that are just totally unreal. I think that dollar for dollar the spring is undervalued when you compare it to other super dacs. I have heard many people say that the Schiit Yiggy is not even in the same ballpark. Others have also said that this is at the level of the Chord DAVE.
> 
> The singxer su-1 is an interesting device. Not only does it isolate the noise from the source to the dac but it also converts from usb to hdmi.  It essentially reconstructs the signal and sends it out to the dac through hdmi. It supposedly gives you a flawless, super black and resolved signal into your dac. Think of it as a signal conditioner for your dac.
> Level three, excellent choice! I am really excited to hear what you think about it.


 
 Thanks for your explanation, Hi-Phi. What you say is very much tempting! In particular the ability of dealing with PCM AND DSD files is amazing, given that this is a ladder DAC! I wonder how DSD is handled technically in an R2R machine. Is there any conversion to PCM?


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## greenkiwi

Argh! Now I have to decide between this and a yggy


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## lotriwer

What would you choose, Holo Spring or T+A Dac8 DSD?


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## kevin gilmore

The holo spring is the first fully compensated discrete R2R dac to come to market.
 the other discrete R2R units I am aware of (soekris,msb etc) do not do linearity compensation.
 I think this is going to be a big deal going forward.
  
 At least until a monolithic R2R high resolution dac chip comes out. (could be a long time)
 It is possible, with 10nm technology, but not going to be cheap. Say $300 per channel...


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## Hi-Phi

biosailor said:


> Thanks for your explanation, Hi-Phi. What you say is very much tempting! In particular the ability of dealing with PCM AND DSD files is amazing, given that this is a ladder DAC! I wonder how DSD is handled technically in an R2R machine. Is there any conversion to PCM?




It discretely handles dsd in nos mode without any conversion or sample rate converters. Pure native dsd!


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## greenkiwi

Does it have any warranty?


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## biosailor

hi-phi said:


> It discretely handles dsd in nos mode without any conversion or sample rate converters. Pure native dsd!


 
 Thanks, Hi-Phi! This DAC sounds ever more tempting ...


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## biosailor

kevin gilmore said:


> The holo spring is the first fully compensated discrete R2R dac to come to market.
> the other discrete R2R units I am aware of (soekris,msb etc) do not do linearity compensation.
> I think this is going to be a big deal going forward.
> 
> ...


 
 Can you explain in layman's term what linearity compensation is? Sounds interesting!


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## kevin gilmore

I think it is explained partially on the website.
  
 But here is how it works, a R2R ladder DAC has a pile of precision resistors, and a pile of switches
 in the case of the soekris, lv595 which are serial in parallel out shift registers. The output stages of these
 devices are designed to drive digital circuits, not resistors. As such they have definitely non-zero impedance.
 And each of the 8 output stages (6 are used in the soekris per chip due to layout) do not have matched impedances either.
  
 So if you really want 24 bits of precision with at least 1/2 lsb of accuracy, you have to do adjustments to get the
 switches to have matched impedances. So you add trimming resistors to get things to be linear.
  
 The question of long term stability (like 2 to 3 years later) is unknown.
  
 silicon companies (like burr brown/ti)  that make r2r monolithic parts do the same thing, they trim with a laser before they do the final packaging.


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## bimmer100

greenkiwi said:


> Does it have any warranty?


 
  
  
  
 YES there is indeed a warranty,
  
 I can speak on behalf of HoloAudio as i'm now HoloAudio USA. The warranty for the Spring Dac is a 3 years warranty, both parts and labor, cover one way shipping (return shipping once product is confirmed a warranty claim).


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## Ken57

Has anyone done a detailed comparison with Schiit Yggy or Metrum dacs? When will it be shipping?


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## bimmer100

ken57 said:


> Has anyone done a detailed comparison with Schiit Yggy or Metrum dacs? When will it be shipping?




Also another customer I just sold a spring DAC to owns a metrum DAC. Possibly will see a review/comparison if he feels like sharing.
Some people on this thread already received theirs. Some will be getting them soon.
I can't comment many details but there is a customer I have that has a yggy and a spring. And know of other guy in China with both. Maybe you can find there reviews.


But about shipping times. Depends on when the order went in. Example: defbear should be seeing his shipment early this week! Maybe Tuesday or Wednesday! Shipping time is typical about 3-4days dhl. And production time of kitsune tuned edition is approx 2weeks. I'm only sticking to facts, so can't give any more information than this. But I'm happy to answer anyone's questions they may have if they don't pertain to subjective things or opinions or comparisons. I can't comment on this. Otherwise I'm quite happy to help with straight forward questions.

I highly recommend reading the website which truly has most all answers on there. An FAQ is in the works.


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## ToroFiestaSol

From an Audiogon post:
 https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/holo-audio-spring-dac-affordable-discrete-r2r-multibit-dac-could-be
  

  

   "I am a end user in hong kong , mine is a level 3 version (but my jensen cap is still on the way), and  i have option to upgrade the audionote silver isolate transformer which in front of the digital in, which make huge improve over the cheap one inside, before that i am a metrum pavane owner, i am very happy with pavane , it provide a very smooth and organic sound , strong and defination bass, sell it because to save some money, and for the holo spring performance, it really close to pavane but not better, but consider the price , it almost outclass similar competitor, and i am waiting for my jensen to make a final judgement"


 


  


  
 So it's very good, but not better than Pavane (which is twice the price)...


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## biosailor

kevin gilmore said:


> I think it is explained partially on the website.
> 
> But here is how it works, a R2R ladder DAC has a pile of precision resistors, and a pile of switches
> in the case of the soekris, lv595 which are serial in parallel out shift registers. The output stages of these
> ...


 
 Thanks a lot for the elaborate explanation. I am starting to grasp what it means to implement a R2R ladder on a chip. No wonder why all chip makers switched to Delta Sigma chips! 
 BTW The classic R2R chip is the Burr Brown PCM1704. Are all Burr Brown successors Delta Sigma chips?


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## defbear

Here is a shipping time update. I ordered my HoloDac through Kitsume. My Holo Spring level 3 was given to DHL Hong Kong on Sept 3rd. It is in The U.S. And should be delivered to me tomorrow Tuesday the 6th.


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## Pixelplay

I have just ordered the same Dac and am eagerly awaiting your thoughts once it arrives.


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## Hi-Phi

I just finished breaking in the new fuse I bought for mine. AH platinum fuse -- it's a whole new level. Vocals are to die for.


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## Pixelplay

hi-phi said:


> I just finished breaking in the new fuse I bought for mine. AH platinum fuse -- it's a whole new level. Vocals are to die for.


 

 Nice, how would you describe the house sound of the Dac now that you have changed the fuse? Subjective I know.
 Any further input on your review of the overall sound of the dac would be greatly appreciated.
  
 Cheers
 Greg


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## Peaceofmind

Looking at the inside pictures of this DAC, I see a switch which reads 110V next to the blue transformer. I assume this switch is to easily change between domestic and foreign input voltage (110V/220V)?


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## bimmer100

peaceofmind said:


> Looking at the inside pictures of this DAC, I see a switch which reads 110V next to the blue transformer. I assume this switch is to easily change between domestic and foreign input voltage (110V/220V)?


 
 Correct. but a change of fuse type is required when changing from 110 to 220v as well.
  
 but if you were to order, the dac is sold according to voltage specs required in the country that it is ordered to ship to.
  
 Australian dac's are the exception, as these are custom ordered for 240V spec. NOT A PROBLEM, but slightly different as the transformers are specifically made for their voltage requirements. 
  
 110
 220
 240 
  
 are options that it can be ordered in.
  
 Hope this clears up some questions on it's compatibility world wide.


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## Peaceofmind

Looking at the website, there are some pictures in which the switch (domestic/foreign input voltage) is missing. Do some models have this switch while others don't? Only asking because I have a home in the US and a home in the Philippines.


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## Peaceofmind

One other question. Is this DAC considered a true fully balance DAC?


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## bimmer100

peaceofmind said:


> One other question. Is this DAC considered a true fully balance DAC?





Some of the early versions didn't have a switch. Unfortunately the photos "dark black background" are of an early level 2 DAC intended for the Chinese market"

Is the voltage in phillipines 220v? Correct?
If you place your order, state what voltage you would like it to be shipped for and compatible for. It will ship configured and with proper fuse installed.
The default models for HoloAudio USA are 110/220 switchable. But you need a diff fuse when using 220, so ask for this when ordering.
Otherwise, no problem man!
Also, instructions to properly open the DAC can be provided upon request. It's very specific process to do. And detailed English instructions  we don't provide them normally as we don't encourage users to be inside the DAC as there are no parts to service only voltage switch. Values of fuses are stated on voltage sticker on the bottom of the DAC for reference.


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## Peaceofmind

Thanks, yes Philippines is 220V. Nice to know the DAC can be easily switched between foreign or domestic input voltage.


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## greenkiwi

peaceofmind said:


> One other question. Is this DAC considered a true fully balance DAC?


 
 i.e. two full ladders for right, two full ladders for left (and the same duplicate ladders for DSD)?


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## lukeap69

There is quite a jump in price from Level 2 to Level 3 - is the sound improvement major?


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## doctorcilantro

Can someone speak with authority as to the output stage? Is there any difference in XLR vs. SE? 
  
 Discrete output?


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## bimmer100

doctorcilantro said:


> Can someone speak with authority as to the output stage? Is there any difference in XLR vs. SE?
> 
> Discrete output?


 
  
  
 Analog output stage is discrete output.
  
 input has opamp
  
The spdif receiver is AK4118A chip. 
  
          The output stage contains I/V conversion and LPF. These two parts use similar structure but different specs.
The opamp is used for input stage and class A discrete buffer component is for output stage. That discrete output stage is working in class a. So when you touch the PCB, you will find it’s very hot. The output voltage is 2.5Vrms for single ended output and 5Vrms for balanced output. The single ended is RCA. Balanced is XLR. They all use the same output stage. Yet XLR output is highly recommended if you plan to listen to DSD512 native.


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## Cobold

Does anybody know if this is available in Europe?
  
  
 Cobold


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## bimmer100

cobold said:


> Does anybody know if this is available in Europe?
> 
> 
> Cobold


 
 Due to strict rules of sales to Europe, We have avoided sales to europe. We believe there is some VAT tax license or something we need to apply for if we do decide. But it's possible we can arrange drop shipping from china to europe. I don't know the details of that yet.  "maybe?" I can look into this more.


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## Cobold

Would be good to know if this is possible and which version would be available.

Cobold


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## crooner

Looks like a superb DAC and certainly unique in it's implementation of DSD. I am looking to upgrade from my two year old Resonessence Labs Concero HD. I really like the Resonessence Labs house sound but I am tired of waiting for the new Veritas to be released. I am a fan of the older Burr Brown ladder DACs (PCM-63 and 1704), and the very first Philips TDA1540 as found in my vintage Philips CD100 clone, the original Marantz CD63 CD player. 
So this new DAC is really tempting to me. DSD is an absolute requirement, since I have a nice collection of DSD files. Are the Windows drivers already available?


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## audiobill

Here's the response I received directly from Tim regarding Windows drivers - Windows drivers currently support dsd256 over DoP, and the final Windows drivers are to be released mid September. They are tested and functioning with full dsd512 native with HDMI i2s and usb input.


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## bimmer100

crooner said:


> Looks like a superb DAC and certainly unique in it's implementation of DSD. I am looking to upgrade from my two year old Resonessence Labs Concero HD. I really like the Resonessence Labs house sound but I am tired of waiting for the new Veritas to be released. I am a fan of the older Burr Brown ladder DACs (PCM-63 and 1704), and the very first Philips TDA1540 as found in my vintage Philips CD100 clone, the original Marantz CD63 CD player.
> So this new DAC is really tempting to me. DSD is an absolute requirement, since I have a nice collection of DSD files. Are the Windows drivers already available?


 
  
 Well, most recent update is that we were finally approved from microsoft for an OFFICIAL signed windows 10 driver. This was NOT easy. But the release date will be early october. This date should be pretty solid now that microsoft has responded finally.  We have an evaluation driver for windows on our website that allows DSD512 native in windows and functions perfectly fine except a random beep once in a while to remind you its evaluation. But it's enough to prove the dac is purely capable of dsd512 native in windows.
  
 The firmware is officially updated to support DSD512, and also support for Microrendu is available now. But may require an update to your microrendu. We worked directly with Jesus @sonore to get this sorted. 
  
 All the customers are currently using the EVAL drivers when they are doing DSD native. otherwise the standard drivers are perfectly suitable for most things.
  
 Our hang up is...do we pay 1-2grand for drivers that only support windows 7 and sorta kinda 8.1 and 10 if you force install them some back door sort of way? and this would only be for 3 weeks... then pay an additional 2 grand for the official microsoft signed drivers? Well, we figure the EVAL drive is OK for a few more weeks. We are definitely moving on this as fast as "WE" can move. Microsoft was like dealing with apple.... lots of hoops to jump through apparently. But we did it, it will be released for all our customers. a solid windows 10 signed driver!!! 
  
 I will post again when I have an exact day for it's release. You'll find it posted on our site the day it's available.
  
  
 .


----------



## crooner

That's excellent news.
 Hopefully we'll get to read some reviews of the DAC very soon.
 I may be ordering in the next few weeks.
 I like the fact that it doesn't offer any kind of volume control, as I prefer to use my vintage Marantz 7C tube preamp.


----------



## XVampireX

It's interesting, a potential buy for me, I like how it looks and cool R2R chip thing how it's designed, quite clean, in other high-end DACs that I've seen there also some other gold encasing or something for the chip.
  
 I would like to hear some more comparison against some of the popular DACs like Yggdrasil, like TotalDAC, like Pavane (I know there is a short comparison but it doesn't say much it says it gets close but is not better than Pavane, what does that mean?) perhaps a comparison of the more expensive one, the Chord DAVE (Even though TotalDAC is also around there)
 For the DSD part it's a two birds with one stone. And let me tell you for the money the aesthetics of it are looking premium.
  
 Specifically as a comparison between Auralic Vega and the Holo Audio Spring DAC, I'm missing in Vega some parts of the sound, with the Vega it sounds a bit too rounded, the question is with the Spring DAC, does it sound Rounded or does the sound have meat (Sharp edges that give definition to the sound) ?
  
 For the Bass in Auralic Vega I do feel like it's good bass but I feel I can find even better, again probably related to the previous question.
  
 Thanks for any feedback 
  
 P.S: This DAC is not in the high-end forum, why?


----------



## crooner

It does look very clean. The discrete resistor boards are proprietary so no off the shelf monolithic DAC chip is used. The chassis seems to be standard steel or aluminum and not milled from a billet of aluminum like other fancy brands use.
  
 I still don't understand why Schiit dissed DSD in their DAC's. Perhaps because their off the shelf multibit DAC chip doesn't do DSD. And also in some kind of effort to "standardize" High Res audio confining it to PCM only. DSD would have to be an afterthought for them, so I guess that's why it was left out...


----------



## audiobill

defbear said:


> Here is a shipping time update. I ordered my HoloDac through Kitsume. My Holo Spring level 3 was given to DHL Hong Kong on Sept 3rd. It is in The U.S. And should be delivered to me tomorrow Tuesday the 6th.


 
 I hope that you received it on time as expected. Any updates on its performance? Hopefully you're immersed in the experience and enjoying it, TIA for sharing your impressions!


----------



## XVampireX

crooner said:


> It does look very clean. The discrete resistor boards are proprietary so no off the shelf monolithic DAC chip is used. The chassis seems to be standard steel or aluminum and not milled from a billet of aluminum like other fancy brands use.
> 
> I still don't understand why Schiit dissed DSD in their DAC's. Perhaps because their off the shelf multibit DAC chip doesn't do DSD. And also in some kind of effort to "standardize" High Res audio confining it to PCM only. DSD would have to be an afterthought for them, so I guess that's why it was left out...


 
  
 DSD is a good format and it's really not dead nor going to be dead any time soon, though of course, it's a niche format, people barely use FLAC nowadays and most streaming goes for 320kbps tops except perhaps Tidal which does lossless... I'm guessing MQA is the bridge between FLAC 16/44.1 and high-res
  
 Speaking of DSD, does Spring DAC do DSD Natively or is it DoP?
  
 speaking of MQA, would be cool if this Spring DAC would support it, format versatility is always welcome.
  
 Schiit is trying really hard to go for mainstream even though they are still doing products for a niche market, and that niche will probably never become mainstream. (And very good that it won't - we don't want everyone joining the bandwagon, or it won't be fun - just the enthusiasts)
  
 Anyway still waiting for more reviews.


----------



## Pixelplay

+1 really looking forward to a review.......


----------



## defbear

audiobill said:


> I hope that you received it on time as expected. Any updates on its performance? Hopefully you're immersed in the experience and enjoying it, TIA for sharing your impressions!


Decades ago I used to go to see Pink Floyd quite a bit when they were a quartet. 1st show was with Syd Barrett even. During the early PF shows David Gilmour hung out, standing in the audience with the rest of us, watching the opening acts. I bumped in to him enough he remembered my name. On three tours They performed at the Santa Monica Civic. No opening act. Three hour shows. They would setup their 'Azimuth' Quadrophonic sound system that surrounded the auditorium and cris-crossed the ceiling. Now I saw Everybody! But no one sounded like Pink Floyd. Not when they had complete control of their environment. Gigantic swirling soundscapes twirling about the arena. Rick Wright with his Gigantic Silver Joystick. Unbelievable. And that is what my new Kitsune tuned, Holo Audio Level 3 Spring DAC is like compaired to all my other DACs. For me it is a complete revelation of what's possible in a listening experience. This is more than Buzzword compliant. The sounds stage is not only wide but deep. The channel balance is 'perfect' to my ears. Not a drop of harsh treble yet I am hearing more 'micro details' than ever before. There is Plenty of Bass and I can describe the mids as delicious. I already went back and listened to my collection of 900 albums in 16/44 FLAC when I got my Master 11. But there is so much more readily apparent sonic information available (gee I hear a lot of things I couldn't before) that I'm going to have to explore my collection again. The signal chain I have been mostly using looks like MacBook Pro USB> Singxer SU-1 DDC> Holo Spring Dac via I2S> Audio-gd Master 11 via cheapie SE RCA cables> HD800 via Norne Draug II cable. Substitute a LTA microZOTL for the Master 11 at times. I finally had a listen bypassing the Singxer SU-1 and going plain vanilla USB and was very pleased with how Robust it sounds on it's own. It really doesn't seem to give up much. I need more listening time. I should try the Intona in front. Haven't tried it with the Liquid Carbon yet. I had been casting about for a new DAC for months. I have lived with Bimby and heard Gumby. I thought I knew where Yggy might be heading. But the HoloDac had features that were appealing. Two Ladders etc. Read about that elsewhere. I would buy this again and in fact I would run to do it. Yes it was delivered as expected. And yes Pink Floyd did 'Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast'.


----------



## occamsrazor

defbear said:


> And that is what my new Kitsune tuned, Holo Audio Level 3 Spring DAC is like compaired to all my other DACs.


 
  
 Nice review, thanks. Which are your other DACs that you've compared it to, out of interest?
  
 What maximum PCM/DSD rates are you able to get using either:
  
 Mac > SU-1 > Holo
 Mac > Holo
  
 And on a completely superficial note... does anyone else hate the gold buttons and case-sides? Maybe it's just me, I have a thing against gold anything.


----------



## defbear

occamsrazor said:


> Nice review, thanks. Which are your other DACs that you've compared it to, out of interest?
> 
> What maximum PCM/DSD rates are you able to get using either:
> 
> ...


The Master 11 has a built in Balanced DAC much like their Stand-alone Master 7 DAC. 4 chips vs 8. Bimby and Gumby. I briefly demoed an Yggy but not enough to really get to know it. Enough to convince me to carry on looking. An Auralic Vega was very appealing. I haven't had the Holo long enough to explore everything by a long shot. I have a Mojo and Ifi idsd. Not even close. I've used the Ifi as a DDC as well. Emotiva Stealth DAC 1. I have gotten 384K in NOS. Haven't fooled around with DSD to talk but had fun up-sampling FLACS to DSD. I just entered the gates to Disneyland here. Others can probably wring every last drop. We all think gold looks cheap on guitars. I like this case though. Not another black or silver. Think of it as Bronze or Foxy . I just put on Jeff Beck's 'Loud Hailer'. OMG. Can't wait for the Singxer and HoloDac to burn in. So much more clarity and detail. Balance. Not sure I can take much more.


----------



## Pixelplay

Man am I glad that I have a version 3 Kitsune on the way!


----------



## crooner

Great review thanks!
  
 I have been considering the Lampizator as an alternative to the Holo. I believe the newest Amber uses a proprietary DSD decoding scheme and not off the shelf Sabre chips anymore.
 But I already have a tube preamp and power amp, so I don't need the extra "sweetness" a tube based DAC provides.
  
 Is the chassis made out of steel or aluminum?
  
 Any relay or clicking sounds when it switches sampling rates or from PCM to DSD?
  
 Good to know the I2S converter is not absolutely necessary for best performance. All my stuff is single ended too, so the XLR's won't be used.
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## Peaceofmind

Thanks for that review. I been waiting for months for a black Yggy to be offered from Schiit website. I refuse to buy the silver Yggy because all my components are black. If the good reviews continue and the Holo Spring DAC is praised over the Yggy, this is going to be my new DAC.


----------



## bimmer100

crooner said:


> Great review thanks!
> 
> I have been considering the Lampizator as an alternative to the Holo. I believe the newest Amber uses a proprietary DSD decoding scheme and not off the shelf Sabre chips anymore.
> But I already have a tube preamp and power amp, so I don't need the extra "sweetness" a tube based DAC provides.
> ...




The chassis seems to be aluminum, but this is 20lbs approx! And will double check but appears all panels are 5-6mm thick!!!

The dsd/PCM attenuation is managed quite well with everything we tested except with the microrendu there is still a bug where the click noise is not acceptable to our standards. We are working on this currently and should have a fix. All dacs I'm aware of have this format change click or in some cases "POP!!!" 
But the spring DAC manages to attenuate it into a subtle click. Ask other users. It Happens when going from dsd to PCM, or PCM to dsd. But never noticed anything when switching sample rates while using one format. 

But our final revision of the kitsune tuned edition spring DAC will be revealed at RMaF 2016. Those who may be at RMAF. Come and have a listen to the Kitsune Tuned Edition Spring Holo DAC. We are coexhibiting with HeadAmp, so you will likely be able to hear on a nice pair of stax or he1000v2's. I understand it's a new DAC, so our Holo Audio USA motto is "Time will tell..." And it's just that, thanks for the interest in this DAC! I'm happy to answer questions and stick to the facts. Otherwise I'm not going to comment on comparisons with others products.


----------



## audiobill

Deleted since Tim already addressed the issue above.


----------



## HeadAmpTeam

HoloAudioUSA will be partnering with HeadAmp for CanJam at RMAF 2016.  Stop by for your exclusive chance to hear what the Spring DAC can do through our extremely transparent amplifiers and top-of-the-line headphones!


----------



## XVampireX

headampteam said:


> HoloAudioUSA will be partnering with HeadAmp for CanJam at RMAF 2016.  Stop by for your exclusive chance to hear what the Spring DAC can do through our extremely transparent amplifiers and top-of-the-line headphones!


 
  
 That's cool, can I have a plane ticket too please?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Subscribed, thanks to a "heads up" from Trevor at Norne, looking forward to learning more!


----------



## lukeap69

I have ordered one from HK but it seems it make take a while before the Jensen caps will be available. I hope to receive it soon...


----------



## bimmer100

occamsrazor said:


> Nice review, thanks. Which are your other DACs that you've compared it to, out of interest?
> 
> What maximum PCM/DSD rates are you able to get using either:
> 
> ...




The colors may be off on your screen possibly? But the color in real life is to appear "copper" 
Not gold. I don't care for gold either.

Another guy on here, hi phi, has a dark star amp and it's clearly gold when set next to the spring DAC. 
The spring definitely is like a satin finish copper.  hope this helps clarify


----------



## Pixelplay

Copper works for me, I think that combined with the white led and black chassis, it looks really good.


----------



## defbear

I have been trying the Holo Spring DAC Lvl 3 with everything I can plug it into. I have been using the Master 11 with SE cables. I finally got my hands on a set of balanced xlr's. So I tried the HoloDac into the Master 11 balanced for the first time last night. I do not know if the Master 11 splits SE input to Balanced the way the Liquid Carbon does so successfully. But I can say the Master 11 sounded Even Better fed with the HoloDac's balanced outputs. Bugger, deeper soundstage with amazing separation. If your HD800 set doesn't have enough bass or is spiky, here is a solution. I am finding with the HoloDac, there is just Much More detail without lifting the treble into the sky. Same with the soundstage. For me a piece of equipment has to let me hear something in a recording that I have not heard before. The Spring DAC has that in buckets. It really is a holographic experience. I feel like I'm floating, with a 360 degree ball of music surrounding me.


----------



## Stillhart

defbear said:


> I have been trying the Holo Spring DAC Lvl 3 with everything I can plug it into. I have been using the Master 11 with SE cables. I finally got my hands on a set of balanced xlr's. So I tried the HoloDac into the Master 11 balanced for the first time last night. I do not know if the Master 11 splits SE input to Balanced the way the Liquid Carbon does so successfully. But I can say the Master 11 sounded Even Better fed with the HoloDac's balanced outputs. Bugger, deeper soundstage with amazing separation. If your HD800 set doesn't have enough bass or is spiky, here is a solution. I am finding with the HoloDac, there is just Much More detail without lifting the treble into the sky. Same with the soundstage. For me a piece of equipment has to let me hear something in a recording that I have not heard before. The Spring DAC has that in buckets. It really is a holographic experience. I feel like I'm floating, with a 360 degree ball of music surrounding me.


 
  
 Make me want to try it with the Liquid Tungsten because that's how I felt about that amp with the DAC-19.  I can only imagine how good it is with a sick DAC like this...


----------



## Pixelplay

Defbear, I love reading your posts on your impressions of the HOLO. Are you able to give me an impression of the midrange and tone? I know that it is all subjective. My HOLO Kitsune version 3 arrives next week so in the interim I am living the experience through you 

Cheers
Greg


----------



## FredA

defbear said:


> I have been trying the Holo Spring DAC Lvl 3 with everything I can plug it into. I have been using the Master 11 with SE cables. I finally got my hands on a set of balanced xlr's. So I tried the HoloDac into the Master 11 balanced for the first time last night. I do not know if the Master 11 splits SE input to Balanced the way the Liquid Carbon does so successfully. But I can say the Master 11 sounded Even Better fed with the HoloDac's balanced outputs. Bugger, deeper soundstage with amazing separation. If your HD800 set doesn't have enough bass or is spiky, here is a solution. I am finding with the HoloDac, there is just Much More detail without lifting the treble into the sky. Same with the soundstage. For me a piece of equipment has to let me hear something in a recording that I have not heard before. The Spring DAC has that in buckets. It really is a holographic experience. I feel like I'm floating, with a 360 degree ball of music surrounding me.




Thanks for the feedback. Looking forward to hearing you impressions using the built-in usb with the intona. Sounds like it is a superb dac.


----------



## defbear

stillhart said:


> Make me want to try it with the Liquid Tungsten because that's how I felt about that amp with the DAC-19.  I can only imagine how good it is with a sick DAC like this...


The DAC-19 and Master 11 are similar with the Master 11 being balanced. Both Audio-Gd DACs are no joke. But this level three Spring DAC is just on another level. In a word, Intoxicating! Hey, I'm going to put on some Martin Denny.


----------



## slex

LvL3 vs Ygg comparison, anyone? Im setting my main rig.


----------



## Stillhart

If I get a review unit in, I'll be comparing to the DAC-19, Yggy, 2Cute and possibly Metrum Menuet.  Might make a big shootout of non D-S DAC's...


----------



## slex

stillhart said:


> If I get a review unit in, I'll be comparing to the DAC-19, Yggy, 2Cute and possibly Metrum Menuet.  Might make a big shootout of non D-S DAC's...




Greatly appreciated.


----------



## defbear

pixelplay said:


> Defbear, I love reading your posts on your impressions of the HOLO. Are you able to give me an impression of the midrange and tone? I know that it is all subjective. My HOLO Kitsune version 3 arrives next week so in the interim I am living the experience through you
> 
> Cheers
> Greg


Oh Dear. Thank you. I actually am a nice person in person but then... I'm going to assume the mid-range is all you hope it could be. Tone? It's late so I was going to be a bit silly. Instead, I could have bought a nice safe Auralic system for all the money I've spent, but no fun and no learning. Yggy seemed a safe bet as well. And perhaps I needed more research but Yggy did not seem to be keen on over sampling adventures. The Spring DAC has that nice Oversample button. You can drop-kick your 44k stuff to 384K or DSD. Or have pure NOS. So NOS does have the most beautiful Tone. It is not a syrupy mess. It is smooth, not a hint of anything harsh but has all this soundstage with immense detail stretching out to the horizon. Up sampling does change the Tone and soundstage. Things get a bit sharper. The sound may be tightened up a bit. Soundstage is a bit more Normal. Actually closer to what I get with the Master 11. Of course the Spring DAC is up on the railing with me looking down at poor Master 11 below. (I can't believe myself). I'm using my HD800 set with a Norne Draug II cable. Caution! I believe that cable is Magic. And I might be cheating by having my MacBook USB plug into the Singxer SU-1 then into the Spring HoloDac (let's play Scrabble with the only letters being HoloAudioSpringDac). I have only briefly tried the Spring DAC's USB, plain vanilla, no Intona, Regen, Jittebug yet. The SpringDac USB sounded pretty damn fine on it's own. I'm sure that's proof of something for someone right there. It may be a bit louder than the SU-1 unit. I had to turn down my amp a bit. Teensy bit bolder sound? The Intona has made an immediate, audible improvement to everything I have tried it with. It could be a real treat with the Holo Spring DAC. Tomorrow after Svengoolie.
One more thing about tone. I was convinced that Balanced sounded better than Single Ended. So I bought a Single Ended microZOTL OTL Tube amp. Get it all over in one fell swoop. I needed to find out. I ahem, really do put my money where my mouth is. And I found out Single ended Can sound just as big and wide and buzzword-able and as enjoyable as Balanced. The Holo Audio Spring DAC is just as nice Single Ended as it is running Balanced.


----------



## defbear

freda said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Looking forward to hearing you impressions using the built-in usb with the intona. Sounds like it is a superb dac.


Well @Pixlplay likes me best so I gave him the big answer. But I was thinking of your question when I posted. I will get the Intona in front of the Spring Holo DAC this weekend and report.


----------



## defbear

stillhart said:


> If I get a review unit in, I'll be comparing to the DAC-19, Yggy, 2Cute and possibly Metrum Menuet.  Might make a big shootout of non D-S DAC's...


I can't quite let go of my Spring Holo DAC Level 3 just yet. Needs 300 hours burn-in.  Perhaps Kitsune could get you one for your shootout. I too would love a compairison between HoloDac and Yggy. I was looking at the Menuet also.


----------



## biosailor

stillhart said:


> If I get a review unit in, I'll be comparing to the DAC-19, Yggy, 2Cute and possibly Metrum Menuet.  Might make a big shootout of non D-S DAC's...


 
 That would be fantastic, especially when you include some 'non-Yggi' DACs. It looks as if the Yggi is the reference DAC to compare everything else to. I'd be particularly interested in the Metrum comparison, as Metrum has built quite a reputation over here in Europe. BTW, isn't the 2Qute a Delta Sigma DAC? Anyway, I'd be vastly interested!


----------



## FredA

defbear said:


> Well @Pixlplay likes me best so I gave him the big answer. But I was thinking of your question when I posted. I will get the Intona in front of the Spring Holo DAC this weekend and report.




Thanks a lot. I am very happy with my master-7 but still curious. No one has done a direct comparison between the two yet but the Holo should be better.


----------



## Pixelplay

Thanks Defbear, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts on the holo. As difficult and subjective as it is, it's always nice to know that I too have invested my money in something different that by all accounts is delivering. I was all lined up to get a yggy until the holo surfaced. 

Thanks again
Greg

PS, yes I do like you best


----------



## Tboooe

Subscribed. Was going to get a Yggy but wanted a dac that could also do DSD since i upsample everything with HQ Player. Curious, what hdmi cables are people using?


----------



## Stillhart

defbear said:


> I can't quite let go of my Spring Holo DAC Level 3 just yet. Needs 300 hours burn-in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've contacted Kitsune so we'll see.  The Menuet will come my way for review, they only question is whether it'll be here at the same time as the Holo (if I get one  lol).
  


biosailor said:


> That would be fantastic, especially when you include some 'non-Yggi' DACs. It looks as if the Yggi is the reference DAC to compare everything else to. I'd be particularly interested in the Metrum comparison, as Metrum has built quite a reputation over here in Europe. BTW, isn't the 2Qute a Delta Sigma DAC? Anyway, I'd be vastly interested!


 
  
 The Chord stuff all uses custom FPGA chips, which I've been told aren't D-S.  *shrug*


----------



## biosailor

stillhart said:


> I've contacted Kitsune so we'll see.  The Menuet will come my way for review, they only question is whether it'll be here at the same time as the Holo (if I get one  lol).
> 
> 
> The Chord stuff all uses custom FPGA chips, which I've been told aren't D-S.  *shrug*


 
 As far as I know, FPGAs are used basically for filtering of the converted signal. I was under the impression that the conversion chip and the FPGA are different entities. The FPGA can be used for upgrading new firmware to shape the filtering process. Maybe the DAC techie guys can enlighten me?


----------



## lukeap69

IIRC in one of Chords thread, Rob mentioned his DACs are delta sigma.


----------



## x RELIC x

/OT




Spoiler: Waaaay off topic



The FPGA is used for the WTA filter (Watts Transient Aligned filter) among other tasks in the Chord DACs. That's where you find those loooong TAP length filters and excellent transient response algorithms. The actual digital to analogue conversion is done with the Pulse Array DAC (Rob Watts' DAC he invented some time ago, before the Hugo) which is different from traditional DS DACs. The Chord DACs are at their core principle DS, but they are taken to a degree no other DS design has gone before and they correct for many of the shortcomings of DS DACs. The theory of DS is a good one, but most implementations are mostly half-assed with cheap chips, yes, even Wolfson, ESS, AKM, etc., are inexpensive chips with far less processing capability.

I love me some good R2R so don't think I'm a DS fanboi. However, after reading threads like the DAVE thread it's quite obvious that Rob has taken his (theoretically DS) design to the Nth degree. In that sense it isn't like any other DS chip (or PWM DAC) out there. Quite different.

Apologies for posting this in the *Holo Spring R2R thread, which looks like an amazing DAC by the way*, but since there are some questions about it these links can provide some answers and hopefully help prevent this thread de-railing further from speculations about Rob's DACs. Rob talks a lot about his tech so the posts may be long winded.




Spoiler: Links to info from Rob on his DACs



http://www.head-fi.org/t/800264/watts-up/120#post_12586725

http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/735#post_12097191

http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/1965#post_12395944

http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/2685#post_12534363




bimmer100, if you think this post is inappropriate in the Holo thread I will edit it. Let's get back to the Holo Spring R2R DAC!!! 





/OT

This Holo DAC looks very interesting.


----------



## kazcou

From what I understand : a FPGA is a programmable processor, and you can use it as well as the main processor in a R2R DAC or a Delta Sigma DAC.
 If you do a search on the net you can see several projets using a FPGA as decoder in a R2R DAC or a Delta Sigma DAC.


----------



## biosailor

x relic x said:


> /OT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for your explanation! I am sorry if I went off-topic!


----------



## biosailor

kazcou said:


> From what I understand : a FPGA is a programmable processor, and you can use it as well as the main processor in a R2R DAC or a Delta Sigma DAC.
> If you do a search on the net you can see several projets using a FPGA as decoder in a R2R DAC or a Delta Sigma DAC.


 
 Interesting! Thanks for your explanation!


----------



## x RELIC x

kazcou said:


> From what I understand : a FPGA is a programmable processor, and you can use it as well as the main processor in a R2R DAC or a Delta Sigma DAC.
> If you do a search on the net you can see several projets using a FPGA as decoder in a R2R DAC or a Delta Sigma DAC.




Exactly. Field Programmable Gate Array - FPGA. It's a blank slate to mold to ones purpose, and they can pack some _really_ heavy processing power. Use it for the filter in any DAC among many other things


----------



## artur9

stillhart said:


> If I get a review unit in, I'll be comparing to the DAC-19, Yggy, 2Cute and possibly Metrum Menuet.  Might make a big shootout of non D-S DAC's...


 

 That would be awesome.  Maybe make a comparison thread?


----------



## ririeiman

Soekries DAC OEM


----------



## Stillhart

ririeiman said:


> Soekries DAC OEM


 
  
 Are you saying the Holo is based on the Soekris board?


----------



## audiobill

stillhart said:


> Are you saying the Holo is based on the Soekris board?


 
 Looking at the circuit boards for each that does not appear to be the case. I believe the Soekris was just brought up as being a good candidate for any planned comparison.


----------



## bimmer100

stillhart said:


> Are you saying the Holo is based on the Soekris board?


 
  
  
 The Soekris is NOT based on ANYTHING of the Holo Audio Spring DAC.
  
 Jeff has commented on the architecture of the Soekris, and it's not a linear compensated dac.
  
  
  
 And I have a dual mono Soekris dac project going on BTW. with quad parallel LT3042 psu's for each component/each board/ etc etc. and dediicated Otype transformers. I can't comment on it that much, but it's NOT something I sell, nor will I ever sell. So I guess I can mention it.  I do not plan on doing comparisons as I can't do such things as being MOT. 
  
 But it's similarity is only that it's a discrete R2R dac. that's about it. 
  
 Jeff Zhu has made some comments about many other dac's on the market and compared their architecture.
  
 as the Soekris uses segmenting+R2R
  
 the Holo Audio Spring is Linear compensated. 
  
 very detailed descriptions are available online if you want to read more detail about it.
  
 I think He just mentioned Soekris as a potential comparison. But don't confuse it as being in any relation or based on design.


----------



## noro

Looking forward to comparisons. Personally I would want to know how it compares against the cheapest Rockna


----------



## greenkiwi

@bimmer100 I'm curious if you'd responded to the question about it being fully balanced or just inverts the signals somewhere after the DAC stage to get XLR outs.


----------



## Peaceofmind

If the Holo DAC circuit is not fully balance then the SQ of the single ended and balance out should sound the same. If the DAC is a fully balance design then the balance out will have the edge, of course your preamp and amp should also be fully balance to realize that SQ improvement.


----------



## bimmer100

I am sure the circuit is truly balanced, I believe the comment about XLR being better than RCA is from the Designer and was in reference to how it handles DSD on the outputs.  I've actually sent an email to Jeff to clarify on this. But otherwise, the output stage specs are as follows: This is THD, not THD+N.  The specs on website for THD+N are 0.00068% for PCM, and 0.00050% for DSD
  


 Analog Output PCM 48k NOSTHD 0.00030%SNR -126dBVoltage Output 2.5Vrms(RCA), 5Vrms(XLR)DSD 64XTHD 0.00020%SNR -120dBVoltage Output 1.25Vrms(RCA), 2.5Vrms(XLR)Output Stage typediscrete Class A -  Bipolar Junction Transistors. direct coupled. The big MKP Cap in output stage is actually for power supply and not for signal coupling! Output impedance is 200Ohm.
  
 To add a bunch of circuitry just to get a balanced output generally adds extra noise to the output, so these measured figured are quite low. HoloAudio's motto is "time will tell" sooo here we go.. I will update soon with an answer from Jeff @ Holo. 
  
 He's been quite busy the last couple days but will get an answer from him as I'm sure he'll be able to answer this question a little better than I.
  
 a quote he made in a previous email...
  
 "      You are right, NOS is suggested as there will be no SRC. In the new firmware, DSD512 will run in NOS mode automatically. no matter what mode you selected in control panel. Because DSD512 is greater that the SRC chip’s DSD256 capability. So only NOS can be used.
  
         Also, I suggest to use Spring’s balanced analog output. It is better than single ended. Especially for DSD, balanced output is strongly recommended.
  
Best Regards
Jeff Zhu"


----------



## Tboooe

Hi guys...I apologize if this has been covered but I didnt not find the answer when searching this thread.  
  
 What is the native file format for the Spring DAC?  I am not sure if I am asking this right but in other words, what does the Spring DAC convert all incoming signals to before processing at the output stage? Sample rate, bit depth, DSD or PCM?
  
 I am asking because I would like to compare sending the Spring DAC whatever its native file format is from HQ Player with letting the DAC do its own internal conversion.  My previous experience has shown that moving as much of the computing from the DAC can yield some positive sonic improvements.
  
 Thank you!


----------



## bimmer100

tboooe said:


> Hi guys...I apologize if this has been covered but I didnt not find the answer when searching this thread.
> 
> What is the native file format for the Spring DAC?  I am not sure if I am asking this right but in other words, what does the Spring DAC convert all incoming signals to before processing at the output stage? Sample rate, bit depth, DSD or PCM?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure I fully follow what you're asking, but depends what mode you are in. My favorite, personally, is the NOS mode. As it's pure and no OVERSAMPLING is done. As even though the SRC in the spring is good, i still prefer purity.  So some users are using the MicroRendu and HQ player to send DSD256 or DSD512 to the spring over usb.  And some users are using the SU-1 with the Spring and sending DSD256 via the i2s hdmi port (psaudio standard)
  
 two sections of the dac, one discretely processes PCM, the other processes DSD (not a conversion) and similar to the HQ player hardware demo but on a scale of improvement of many multitudes.
  
 I assume you are asking if you can do oversampling on HQ player....yes. 
 --------------------
  
  
*DSD is natively supported for the first time on this R2R Discrete DAC*

HOLO Audio is the world’s first to support DSD natively on R2R DAC, so far the only one. This is not the DSD converted to PCM before digital-analog converter, but directly by the discrete components of the DSD digital to analog converter. Supported currently on MAC and Linux, and soon to be Windows/PC. Evaluation driver for native DSD512/256 here - the final windows 10 signed driver is due for release in October.

 

*Spring’s input and output interface:*


_Digital input interface includes_
USB (ground isolation)
RCA coaxial
BNC coaxial
AES
optical fiber
I2S (HDMI)
All digital input interface supports DSD (DOP mode).
Analog Output interface: single-ended, balanced.

 *Spring DAC R2R structure and design + Input/output Stage*

Modern and popular delta-sigma type DAC differs from R2R within one clock analog value can recover a sampling point, and the delta-sigma is used to represent an analog signal after passing through oversampling and high-speed digital switching 0 and 1. In comparison, the conversion structure of R2R is most direct and pure, but delta-sigma is essentially a digital chip, high-speed digital signals 0 and 1 switch to the low-pass filter to process the analog signal and this process is prone to various problems, produce digital sound (digititus) and also in the super-sampling process will inevitably cause some ringing and distortion. But DAC R2R structure requires high-precision resistor network which the cost can be very expensive. And the digital delta-sigma DAC chip in comparison is very low cost. Patented R2R technology. This is the first discrete DAC that has Linear compensation and this allows for ultimate music reproduction accuracy. Dual R2R network for PCM, and Dual R2R network for DSD!

_I/O stages:_ There is an Op Amp used for input stage and discrete component used for the output stage. The discrete output stage is working in pure class A.  The output voltage is 2.5 Vrms for single ended output and 5 Vrms for balanced output. The single ended is RCA. Balanced is XLR. They both use the same output stage.* *It's Bipolar Junction Transistors, direct coupled. The big MKP capacitor you can see in output stage are for the power supply,  not for signal coupling. And the output impedance is 200Ohm.
A common question we get..." Why do you use an Op amp at the input of the DAC?"  
The input stage with an opamp is a good choice. It has a paired transistor input by the nature it is manufacturing. But an opamp for the output stage is limited due to it’s size and the thermal capability. Also, no one will offer an opamp with class A output as it’s efficiency is so low. So an opamp used as input and discrete output combined together will have an advantage. It doesn’t mean that all discrete is not good. Actually, if we need to achieve enough low distortion. It needs at least 30-40 transistors. Which not only will it be huge and waste of space but it will also be too costly. I mean, to beat the opamp’s performance, a simple discrete architecture is not possible, although an all discrete design looks beautiful.
 

*With diverse and flexible sampling mode conversion mode*

1: NOS mode: has no digital oversampling, the raw data is directly converted to analog.  Because digital oversampling will produce time-domain distortions, such as ringing, NOS avoids these problems. Generally NOS mode’s other performance indicators have a significant impact, but the Spring is designed to allow top performance while in NOS mode.

2: OS mode: PCM is over sampled to PCM at a higher frequency, DSD is over sampled to DSD at a higher frequency, and then digital is converted to analog.

3: OS PCM mode: in either PCM or DSD the data will be oversampled to PCM and then digital is converted to analog.

4: OS DSD mode: in either PCM or DSD the data will be oversampled to DSD and then digital is converted to analog.


----------



## TimeLord

bimmer100 said:


> *I am sure the circuit is truly balanced,* I believe the comment about XLR being better than RCA is from the Designer and was in reference to how it handles DSD on the outputs.  I've actually sent an email to Jeff to clarify on this. But otherwise, the output stage specs are as follows: This is THD, not THD+N.  The specs on website for THD+N are 0.00068% for PCM, and 0.00050% for DSD




Please don't take this post in any other way than how it comes across to a potential customer. 

This product is not very well known; it does not have much of any reviews other than an impression or two. We are depending on getting solid facts to make an informed choice. 

At the moment you are the only one providing answers by directly communicating to the manufacturer. It does not instill confidence in a potential customer when you are making available upgraded versions of the Spring, but you do not know basic design criteria such as whether or not the circuit design is balanced. 

How did you consider what impact the Jensen caps or modified transformers would have on the circuit design?


----------



## mtoc

peaceofmind said:


> fully balance


 
  
 little tip: AGD m7 and CH Precison c1 are the only two DACs that suit your standard.


----------



## bimmer100

timelord said:


> Please don't take this post in any other way than how it comes across to a potential customer.
> 
> This product is not very well known; it does not have much of any reviews other than an impression or two. We are depending on getting solid facts to make an informed choice. _Our motto is "time will tell..." so in time all will be revealed. We have many demo dacs being sent over to be sent off to the list that is well over a dozen reviewers now. _
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 No offense taken,
  
 I'm a rep for the USA, not the engineer.
  
 All these mods are done over in Hong Kong with an engineer that directly works with Jeff Zhu too. These "level2" dacs were tuned editions of the original design done by our tuner, and this Kitsune Tuned edition is one step further by the same person who implemented the Jensen caps. Jeff Zhu is directly backing what we do, as we are Holo Audio USA. KitsuneTuned is a company my wife and I run for selling Audio Gear and DIY Products etc. A new company as well. Yet Holo Audio has been around for a while longer actually.
  
 So yes, I understand your skepticism of a new company coming out with a product that makes many claims. But as our motto states "time will tell.."  is a saying that in time all will be revealed. Many people will review the dac and more light will be shed on what we are offering. I'm confident in saying that the majority of people will be very pleased with this Dac and I expect a small amount to heavily criticize a new company like us.  I'm doing my best to sell the product here, and our team in HongKong has the brains behind all of it. So I apologize for not being able to answer all questions with a direct answer. I work directly with Jeff Zhu, the designer and if you need proof, that can be arranged as well. 
  
  
  
 We have products like the Mammoth Amp, the Sabertooth DAC PCM1704UK based....
  
 and the mammoth we also have tuned versions with jensen caps
  
 we have a USB reclocker cleaner product called "titanis" and it's actually quite good! we will be bringing these to RMAF
  
 The Megaladon is a linear PSU for small PC or Laptop
  
 the newest dac in the works is the "May" dac and will be priced in the range of 3-4K and be even higher spec than the Spring Dac.
  

 -----------
 My point is that we have many products and we'd like to be accepted of course, and expect to get a critic once in a while. But we are like the new kid on the block in the USA. I'm representing HoloAudio USA because we believe in the products that Jeff Zhu designs. So offering a more tuned version of the Dac and selling it under our Name was for the US market and needed branding to distinguish from some other companies who are trying to tune the dac without Jeff being involved. We have had this dac measured and posted the specs, and plan to even have it put on the APx555 for a test too. specifically the KitsuneTuned Edition. 
  
 We will be at RMAF for those who would like to listen to the dac on a Headamp BlueHawaii SE.
  
 Ted @ nativedsd.com has one of our dac's and so far is very impressed. His review will be up before RMAF, so have patience on this. We have more demo dacs going to go out...some of you are posting in this thread will have a demo dac sent to you. We want the dac to do the talking mostly, as it's truly about the music and how well this gear and deliver that music.  
  
 Hope you'll give me a bit of slack now that you understand i'm NOT the engineer behind the tuning.  It's our company that has worked directly with Holo for our own higher spec model specifically aimed to the USA market. that's it. And imho, it makes sense to have a higher spec build for our market.


----------



## TimeLord

bimmer100 I did not want to quote your entire post, but that was very helpful. May I suggest putting the information about the tuning and the collaboration with Jeff prominently on your website? I am very interested in this DAC and information like that helps a lot since there are far too many people in this field that make claims about everything under sun making improvements about the sound. 

Knowing that the design engineer would have opted for the upgrades, if not for cost considerations, heavily tilts my opinion on the matter. Of course hearing it will be the ultimate test. 

When you make demo units available for folks on this thread, I would ask to be amongst them. I'm currently looking for an excellent DAC to complete my signal chain. It'll be paired as follows:

FLAC from PC--> Schiit Wyrd--> Spring --> Cavalli Liquid Gold--> Focal Utopia

I look forward to more impressions and reviews and thank you for the detailed response.


----------



## bimmer100

timelord said:


> bimmer100 I did not want to quote your entire post, but that was very helpful. May I suggest putting the information about the tuning and the collaboration with Jeff prominently on your website? I am very interested in this DAC and information like that helps a lot since there are far too many people in this field that make claims about everything under sun making improvements about the sound.
> 
> Knowing that the design engineer would have opted for the upgrades, if not for cost considerations, heavily tilts my opinion on the matter. Of course hearing it will be the ultimate test.
> 
> ...




I will ask Jeff for a statement on the matter. He is very transparent and honest. A man with many good principles he lives by and designs by. Also extremely ocd when it comes to circuit design  one of my favorite things about him. He isn't about to disclose everything about his technology but he does what he can to disclose as much as possible so you know what you are getting! 

But I suggested some of these mods for an exclusive version for the USA market and we agreed on having them done without compromising his careful implementation of the DAC. They indeed improve upon its sound. As we have tested a lot of a/b between the different levels of dacs. anyhow, I will follow up soon. thanks for your patience and understanding  we want happy customers and well informed too!


----------



## Joeybgood

Looking forward to my Spring Level3 arriving in a couple weeks or so. Very excited about this DAC. Reallly hoping it will be my end-game. Thank you so much @bimmer100 for your invaluable assistance and for answering all my questions. It's truly been a pleasure doing business with you Tim.


----------



## Pixelplay

joeybgood said:


> Looking forward to my Spring Level3 arriving in a couple weeks or so. Very excited about this DAC. Reallly hoping it will be my end-game. Thank you so much @bimmer100 for your invaluable assistance and for answering all my questions. It's truly been a pleasure doing business with you Tim.


 

 I took delivery of mine (level 3) yesterday and it is warming up/burning in as I am typing this....
 I just wanted to take the time to second Joeybgood's experience dealing with Tim at Kitsune, I too took a punt on the new unreviewed Holo Spring 3 dac and to say that I am over the moon in this early stage is an understatement! There will be more to follow.
  
 Thank you again Tim
  
 To people thinking about purchasing new equipment, give the little guys a go. Often they take the punt and front up their hard earned $ to bring unheard of brands to the wider audience with much smaller markups. Do your due diligence and in most cases you will be rewarded.


----------



## bimmer100

for those questioning the balanced. Jeff wanted to show the renderings of the design..the top and bottom show the full resistor network for each.
  
 here is a copied email from him
  
 "
I think these two pictures can explain the true balance very well. The bottom side has the same resistor ladders as top side.
  
XLR is using all of the circuit and RCA is just using half of them. The balanced output has the better performance(THD, noise) and also better common mode rejection rate. If your listening environment contains interference, either from AC power or from air. Then you will find a full balanced system can really help a lot.
Best Regards
Jeff Zhu
"


----------



## greenkiwi

Excellent!
  
 I think that has tipped my hand.


----------



## greenkiwi

I'd been wondering since you could only see what looked like one pair of resistor networks on the top.


----------



## hifimckinney

Any proud owner in or around Dallas area?


----------



## Tboooe

pixelplay said:


> I took delivery of mine (level 3) yesterday and it is warming up/burning in as I am typing this....
> I just wanted to take the time to second Joeybgood's experience dealing with Tim at Kitsune, I too took a punt on the new unreviewed Holo Spring 3 dac and to say that I am over the moon in this early stage is an understatement! There will be more to follow.


 
 Looking forward to your impressions of this DAC.  Are you able to directly compare this DAC to another one?  It would be good to know details about your system.
  
 i must say I am really thinking of taking a flyer and buying this DAC. I just need to save a few more pennies.  I was going to get a second sub but this DAC has got me very intrigued and excited!


----------



## greenkiwi

hifimckinney said:


> Any proud owner in or around Dallas area?


 
 Any in the San Francisco area?


----------



## Tboooe

greenkiwi said:


> Any in the San Francisco area?


 
 While we are at it...how about Orange County???  Pipe dream I know....


----------



## ufospls2

bimmer100 said:


> *the newest dac in the works is the "May" dac and will be priced in the range of 3-4K and be even higher spec than the Spring Dac.*


 
 Hi bimmer100,
  
 is there a release date for the "May" DAC? Or is it in the very early stages of design?


----------



## bimmer100

ufospls2 said:


> Hi bimmer100,
> 
> is there a release date for the "May" DAC? Or is it in the very early stages of design?




The release date is......
In the future.


Actually it's in its early stages and on the drawing board. I can't really share any details right now other than projected retail price is 3-4K and possibly more depending on silver prices. The hike happened today from many suppliers. which is a bad bad thing for the spring. Our transformer cost will be very expensive soon. 
But we will try to remain aggressive in keeping our price as low as possible still


----------



## wildsam

I was wondering if any owners have sucessfully played dsd via jriver with the asio driver?
 It is not working for me, wasapi and kernel streaming dsd playback works but only via DOP not native.
 Otherwise the dac is sounding quite nice in my system.


----------



## bimmer100

wildsam said:


> I was wondering if any owners have sucessfully played dsd via jriver with the asio driver?
> 
> It is not working for me, wasapi and kernel streaming dsd playback works but only via DOP not native.
> Otherwise the dac is sounding quite nice in my system.




Sorry, but are you a customer of ours?

Anyhow, as holo audio USA ... I will say that our windows 10 driver is coming out mid October with official signed drivers. For now there is evaluation driver you can download from us to allow full dsd native. Otherwise.. NO you can't 

But he eval drivers has random beeps one in a while to remind you its eval. 

We did get approval for our driver, and it was thousands of dollars. But we move at the pace of Microsoft. 

A previous post would have mentioned this


----------



## rocky500

wildsam said:


> I was wondering if any owners have sucessfully played dsd via jriver with the asio driver?
> It is not working for me, wasapi and kernel streaming dsd playback works but only via DOP not native.
> Otherwise the dac is sounding quite nice in my system.


 
  
 Have you ever tried Snakeoil OS?
 I am about to put in on a SSD drive to play around with.
 It is a linux based OS but should support native DSD and designed for the purpose of great Audio reproduction.
 All done by a local in Perth who is always willing to help.


----------



## wildsam

Hi Bimmer and Rocky,
 I have a kind friend who loaned me his unit for a demo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Its running latest firmware and driver, I'm using latest Jriver on windows server r2.
 Now I understand that the firmware and software is still under development.
 I have a dual boot Snakeoil / Windows Server setup, will try Snakeoil and report back with the results.
 Cheers lads


----------



## bimmer100

wildsam said:


> Hi Bimmer and Rocky,
> I have a kind friend who loaned me his unit for a demo
> Its running latest firmware and driver, I'm using latest Jriver on windows server r2.
> Now I understand that the firmware and software is still under development.
> ...




So you got the latest firmware and drive from us...
As I don't believe anyone has it posted, not even holo audio's own site or Taobao sellers.


----------



## wildsam

Not sure where my friend ordered it, probably from you....
 Fear not, if I decide to buy one I will order it from you!
 I own 2 other dsd capable dacs and I much prefer to use the asio drivers as it sounds best to my ears.


----------



## bimmer100

timelord said:


> @bimmer100 I did not want to quote your entire post, but that was very helpful. May I suggest putting the information about the tuning and the collaboration with Jeff prominently on your website? I am very interested in this DAC and information like that helps a lot since there are far too many people in this field that make claims about everything under sun making improvements about the sound.
> 
> Knowing that the design engineer would have opted for the upgrades, if not for cost considerations, heavily tilts my opinion on the matter. Of course hearing it will be the ultimate test.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 here is an email Jeff Sent to me as a statement he wants to be known.
  
 "I have tried silver o-type transformer when designing Spring. It's better than the 7N OFC of cause, but for cost reason I choose the 7N OFC o-type transformer as standard configuration.
The Jensen cap is an official option, not mod. For the fuse, audiophiles always like to changed it. It’s a replaceable part, they can do whatever they want. About other modifications. Maybe those are not so cost effective, but they will not make things worse. Silver wire/Silver connectors can be an improvement. Mods in the Level 3 make smaller difference but will not hinder the original design, more likely improve performance slightly. Holo Audio and Holo Audio USA work together to bring you Spring Dac in the USA in three versions. 
 
  
 Best Regards
 Jeff Zhu"
  
  
 And though Jeff approves the mods we have done, we have done most of our listening testing without him involved. I like that he is very conservative in saying they are slight improvements. To me and our tuner, they are significant. But that's our opinion. We want to setup a reviewer with two dacs. One level 2 and one KitsuneTuned Edition so they can do a comparison. That's only fair to let the Dac speak/sing for itself.  I hope this puts everyone at ease knowing that we are not just randomly tweaking or tuning. These are all carefully selected components added to the dac that present a level of HiFi performance we are proud to offer the USA market.


----------



## monkkx

Hi all, I'm very curious about an A/B comparison versus Hugo TT. Has it been done? If so, I'd appreciate a link, I couldn't find any.


----------



## koolblue3

defbear said:


> Oh Dear. Thank you. I actually am a nice person in person but then... I'm going to assume the mid-range is all you hope it could be. Tone? It's late so I was going to be a bit silly. Instead, I could have bought a nice safe Auralic system for all the money I've spent, but no fun and no learning. Yggy seemed a safe bet as well. And perhaps I needed more research but Yggy did not seem to be keen on over sampling adventures. The Spring DAC has that nice Oversample button. You can drop-kick your 44k stuff to 384K or DSD. Or have pure NOS. So NOS does have the most beautiful Tone. It is not a syrupy mess. It is smooth, not a hint of anything harsh but has all this soundstage with immense detail stretching out to the horizon. Up sampling does change the Tone and soundstage. Things get a bit sharper. The sound may be tightened up a bit. Soundstage is a bit more Normal. Actually closer to what I get with the Master 11. Of course the Spring DAC is up on the railing with me looking down at poor Master 11 below. (I can't believe myself). I'm using my HD800 set with a Norne Draug II cable. Caution! I believe that cable is Magic. And I might be cheating by having my MacBook USB plug into the Singxer SU-1 then into the Spring HoloDac (let's play Scrabble with the only letters being HoloAudioSpringDac). I have only briefly tried the Spring DAC's USB, plain vanilla, no Intona, Regen, Jittebug yet. The SpringDac USB sounded pretty damn fine on it's own. I'm sure that's proof of something for someone right there. It may be a bit louder than the SU-1 unit. I had to turn down my amp a bit. Teensy bit bolder sound? The Intona has made an immediate, audible improvement to everything I have tried it with. It could be a real treat with the Holo Spring DAC. Tomorrow after Svengoolie.
> One more thing about tone. I was convinced that Balanced sounded better than Single Ended. So I bought a Single Ended microZOTL OTL Tube amp. Get it all over in one fell swoop. I needed to find out. I ahem, really do put my money where my mouth is. And I found out Single ended Can sound just as big and wide and buzzword-able and as enjoyable as Balanced. The Holo Audio Spring DAC is just as nice Single Ended as it is running Balanced.




How about Dynamics and transient response ?


----------



## TimeLord

bimmer100 said:


> here is an email Jeff Sent to me as a statement he wants to be known.
> 
> "I have tried silver o-type transformer when designing Spring. It's better than the 7N OFC of cause, but for cost reason I choose the 7N OFC o-type transformer as standard configuration.
> [COLOR=222222]The Jensen cap is an official option, not mod. For the fuse, audiophiles always like to changed it. It’s a replaceable part, they can do whatever they want. About other modifications. Maybe those are not so cost effective, but they will not make things worse. Silver wire/Silver connectors can be an improvement. Mods in the Level 3 make smaller difference but will not hinder the original design, more likely improve performance slightly. Holo Audio and Holo Audio USA work together to bring you Spring Dac in the USA in three versions. [/COLOR]
> ...




Thank you for the additional clarification.


----------



## defbear

koolblue3 said:


> How about Dynamics and transient response ?


The Dynamics are better than anything I've heard. Transients? this is a very fast DAC with the richness of R2R and NOS. Huh? I'll compare it to guitar. A Flamenco guitar is basically a drum for the dancers and Cantors. It has to compete with the heels and clapping. It has to be bright and Quick. The note has to jump out and die right off. The next note is right on its tail. It has very fast transients. A Classical guitar must have great resonance and sustain. It must be able to be played both loudly and softly with perfect clean notes without buzzing,(distortion) A Classical guitar has wide dynamics. But it is Slow compared to the Flamenco but very rich in sound. In the guitar world the Holo Audio Spring DAC would be a fire breathing monster. It is very rich sounding but responds like a great Flamenco. A perfect Flamenco Negra! The DAC is fluid, balanced and clean. No one will complain of lack of bass. With everything warmed up I listened, a lot, to the USB input with just a MacBook and Supra USB cable. I was pretty floored. But then I put the Intona Industrial version between the Mac and SpringDac. I hate to admit it but my eyes welled up in joy and astonishment. Any distortion or harshness in the recording, especially around the edges just became clear and detailed. And it's even better with the SingXer SU-1 in the chain. I hope that makes sense.

Now you've got that down! - Captain Beefheart


----------



## Pixelplay

My Kitsune versio 3 arrived and I can second defbear's findings. I'm just listening to almost anything just to see what it can do, time and time again I'm just amazed!


----------



## Joeybgood

defbear said:


> The Dynamics are better than anything I've heard. Transients? this is a very fast DAC with the richness of R2R and NOS. Huh? I'll compare it to guitar. A Flamenco guitar is basically a drum for the dancers and Cantors. It has to compete with the heels and clapping. It has to be bright and Quick. The note has to jump out and die right off. The next note is right on its tail. It has very fast transients. A Classical guitar must have great resonance and sustain. It must be able to be played both loudly and softly with perfect clean notes without buzzing,(distortion) A Classical guitar has wide dynamics. But it is Slow compared to the Flamenco but very rich in sound. In the guitar world the Holo Audio Spring DAC would be a fire breathing monster. It is very rich sounding but responds like a great Flamenco. A perfect Flamenco Negra! The DAC is fluid, balanced and clean. No one will complain of lack of bass. With everything warmed up I listened, a lot, to the USB input with just a MacBook and Supra USB cable. I was pretty floored. But then I put the Intona Industrial version between the Mac and SpringDac. I hate to admit it but my eyes welled up in joy and astonishment. Any distortion or harshness in the recording, especially around the edges just became clear and detailed. And it's even better with the SingXer SU-1 in the chain. I hope that makes sense.
> 
> Now you've got that down! - Captain Beefheart


 
 Your impressions have me beYOND excited to receive my Spring Level 3 in a few weeks. One question... I , too, have a Singxer SU-1. I don't, however, own an Intona (I've tried a jitterbug and Regen and just didn't hear any real improvement) so I'm reluctant to spring for one. My question, however, is have you given it a listen without the Intona in the chain? MacBook - Singxer - Spring? tks


----------



## FredA

defbear said:


> The Dynamics are better than anything I've heard. Transients? this is a very fast DAC with the richness of R2R and NOS. Huh? I'll compare it to guitar. A Flamenco guitar is basically a drum for the dancers and Cantors. It has to compete with the heels and clapping. It has to be bright and Quick. The note has to jump out and die right off. The next note is right on its tail. It has very fast transients. A Classical guitar must have great resonance and sustain. It must be able to be played both loudly and softly with perfect clean notes without buzzing,(distortion) A Classical guitar has wide dynamics. But it is Slow compared to the Flamenco but very rich in sound. In the guitar world the Holo Audio Spring DAC would be a fire breathing monster. It is very rich sounding but responds like a great Flamenco. A perfect Flamenco Negra! The DAC is fluid, balanced and clean. No one will complain of lack of bass. With everything warmed up I listened, a lot, to the USB input with just a MacBook and Supra USB cable. I was pretty floored. But then I put the Intona Industrial version between the Mac and SpringDac. I hate to admit it but my eyes welled up in joy and astonishment. Any distortion or harshness in the recording, especially around the edges just became clear and detailed. And it's even better with the SingXer SU-1 in the chain. I hope that makes sense.
> 
> Now you've got that down! - Captain Beefheart




Oh boy. Sounds like you are describing my master-7 setup but only better. To buy or not to buy, that is the question.


----------



## Peaceofmind

If I do decide to get a Holo Spring DAC, I'm planning on using the AES interface for my Auralic Aries. The use of the I2S (HDMI) interface is rare in Hi-Fi audio. I know PS Audio thinks it's the best. Is this I2S (HDMI) protocol the same standard we find in audio-video components? Would I be able to connect a Blu-ray player using regular HDMI cable? Just asking.


----------



## kazcou

No you can not use a standard hdmi device on a I2S hdmi receiver
  
 standard hdmi

  
 I2S


----------



## ppnuts

> No you can not use a standard hdmi device on a I2S hdmi receiver


 
 Do I need a special HDMI cable for I2S connection?


----------



## phonyx

Nope. Just has a different way of using the standard pins.


----------



## Joeybgood

phonyx said:


> Nope. Just has a different way of using the standard pins.


 
 I use the Singxer SU-1 converter.  It has the I2S hdmi output. sounds amazing too.(although I do not have my Spring DAC yet. Using it's AES out to my Sonic Frontiers DAC)


----------



## biosailor

There's just appeared a review on the Holo Audio Spring Level 3 DAC at Computer Audiophile with the title 'Best of Both Worlds? Best of Neither?' Enjoy reading at:
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/722-holo-audio-spring-level-3-kitsune-tuned-edition-r2r-dac-review/


----------



## oneguy

biosailor said:


> There's just appeared a review on the Holo Audio Spring Level 3 DAC at Computer Audiophile with the title 'Best of Both Worlds? Best of Neither?' Enjoy reading at:
> 
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/722-holo-audio-spring-level-3-kitsune-tuned-edition-r2r-dac-review/




Thanks for the link!


----------



## biosailor

oneguy said:


> Thanks for the link!


 
 Welcome!


----------



## phonyx




----------



## erik701

phonyx said:


>


 

 Agree!


----------



## bmichels

any MQA or ROON compatibility in the near future for this DAC ?


----------



## kazcou

MQA is a streaming HQ file format.
 Since this DAC do not have any streaming capability, I do not think you will ever see this technology in this DAC.
  
 And if you really want to use MQA you need to look for a compatible player instead


----------



## bmichels

kazcou said:


> MQA is a streaming HQ file format.
> Since this DAC do not have any streaming capability, I do not think you will ever see this technology in this DAC.
> 
> And if you really want to use MQA you need to look for a compatible player instead


 
  
 Well, an external music server/streamer can pass native MQA to the DAC for the DAC to decode it.


----------



## ted_b

phonyx said:


>


 
  
 I am willing to take the abuse.  Although I am not a headphone guy I am open to the expertise found on this great site.  So.......fire away.  What is it that you didn't like about my review?  I am willing to respond and add to it, if possible.


----------



## phonyx

ted_b said:


> I am willing to take the abuse.  Although I am not a headphone guy I am open to the expertise found on this great site.  So.......fire away.  What is it that you didn't like about my review?  I am willing to respond and add to it, if possible.




Im not the only one who found it odd. You took many paragraphs to say very little in the way of real description of each mode and it's sound vs other well known and relatively popular DAC's, especially FOTM DAC's like Yggdrasil. 

In the first paragraph you tell us things we already know about the DAC market. In the second you take 16 lines to tell us you were a lazy stoner in college and have continued some of those traits through to today warning us to henceforth to expect a non technical review.

You weren't kidding. 

It just didn't really say anything much of value that's going to help someone differentiate between taking a risk on this DAC vs another DAC.


----------



## Nada

I read Ted's Holo review carefully and it took me a slow and careful read for me to understand all the info it carried. Like Ted's fine descriptors of the timbre and how the Holo Spring sounded with different popular contemporary digital feeds. I think anyone wanting a quick and dirty five star guide may be left  disappointed with Ted's approach but  i think that's inevitable with a nuanced and sophisticated review.
  
 I  also think we can appreciate Ted's open disclosure and self-criticism about his background limits which I think is courageous. We all bring our preconceived filters along but for Ted to be insightful enough to be aware of his, rather then acting like hes a perfect objective expert is refreshing to say the least.
  
 In the perfect world Id like to know along with others here how it sounds in direct comparison to a benchmark R2R DAC in the same price range eg the Yggy. I think that could put a reviewer in a difficult place in terms of hurting a product if it is popular, locally made by legendary designers but doesnt sound as good so I wont expect it but would like it.
  
 The main issue Id like from reviewers is full disclosure of the kick backs that can be used to bias or "pay off" a reviewer to give a positive glowing endorsement. Incentives from  manufacturers or distributors range from the subtle    "you can keep the DAC if you like it" to more brazen offers of discounted gear, paid holidays to audio conferences and free flights. This is a hidden corruption which along with editorial advertising pressures explains the paucity of real criticism in most reviews.
  
 Disclosure
 I dont know Ted or write reviews.
  
 PS Ted - thanks for offering to post me over your Holo DAC for an extended trial. Is ten years OK?


----------



## phonyx

I wasn't after a quick and dirty review. Just one like other professional reviewers write with a full description of the modes of operation (just using it purely in nos mode is very one dimensional) and comparison to other well reviewed DAC's we know. 

Description, nuanced or not, is useless without comparison. We could make the same descriptions about the Metrum hex, pavane, audioGd master 7, chord 2Qute etc. They're all good, smooth, musical detailed DAC's. What's needed are accurate comparisons to other common DAC's so people know where this one fits in. 

This DAC has nothing in the way of real reviews and real comparisons to known benchmarks. This latest review does nothing to change that.


----------



## wuwhere

This DAC looks interesting. I may get one but waiting for more comparisons/reviews. Also a comparison between Level2 and Level3.


----------



## ppnuts

Thanks, Nada, for speaking my mind. I, for one, am anxious to read in any review detailed comparisons between the subject equipment and competitors in the market. But as you said, this could likely be the result of perks going to the reviewer and some genuine and good products getting hurt. In the circumstances, I would prefer ted_b's way of presenting it - subtle, low profile; you'll get it if you read it carefully.
  
 If you have doubts on any gear, just put it behind you mind. Don't waste time on it. I live in Hong Kong and have access to web information in Chinese. Having read what people in this part of the world said about the Holo Spring, I have ordered one (level 3 mod) and am expecting delivery towards the end of this month; a long waiting time, and my not having an opportunity to audition it. Rationale? An R2R dac at the price of a mid-market interconnect. From what I've gathered by reading peoples' comments between the lines, it's performance is expected to be compatible with dacs at about 2 to 3 times of its price. I can't ask for the moon, can I?


----------



## kazcou

The Holo Spring LV3 is more expansive than a Yggdrasil or Master 7.
 Schiit is also offering some cheap multibit dac (249$ for Modi 2 multibit) !
 And there is another chinese R2R DAC (Denafrips ARES), twice cheaper than Spring.


----------



## ted_b

phonyx said:


> Im not the only one who found it odd. You took many paragraphs to say very little in the way of real description of each mode and it's sound vs other well known and relatively popular DAC's, especially FOTM DAC's like Yggdrasil.
> 
> In the first paragraph you tell us things we already know about the DAC market. In the second you take 16 lines to tell us you were a lazy stoner in college and have continued some of those traits through to today warning us to henceforth to expect a non technical review.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I appreciate the feedback.
  
 First, I HAVE NOT HEARD THE YIGGY!  I shout because I mention that several times in the review followups, and stated unequivocally that I am open to someone sending me one...which someone is.  I posted that it ships on Monday..
  
 Two, I simply added the somewhat tongue-in-cheek comments about my review style (at age 62) to give the reader a perspective, assuming he hasn't read any of my other reviews.  It's not a typical pro review (I get paid a stipend from CA, but not enough to be rounding error) in that I usually refer folks to others' technical write ups (although you could read about it technically from this thread so why do it; I assume you truly believe that what is on the back panel is truly on the back panel).
  
 Third, not everyone knows about my perspective on the dac world, and I took maybe 50 seconds of reading to give it there. 
  
 Fourth, I did not write this to be "A Guide to getting suboptimal sound from the Holo Audio Spring Kistune Edition dac" so I stated simply that the SRC modes are average at best and NOT at all the reason you would buy this dac.  The NOS mode is, and all comments written were from listeneing in mode.  I used the terms veiled and harsh to describe the SRC modes.  I thought that would be enough to run away from those modes.  Similarly, no one here spends listening comments on a set of cans who have ****ty cables included in the box.  They quickly add their favorite 3rd party ones and write about it from there.  What am I missing?
  
 However,l I will take heat on the terseness of some of my comments, as I should have called this review "part one".  I fulfilled a promise to the distributor (who had no real demo units available at the time) to turn around the reveiw in time for RMAF (assuming the review was going to be positive, of course).   I plan on doing servral updates about HQPlayer's affect on upsampling, something that for normal stock dac chips becomes obvious in the first 30 seconds.  Also, the latest stable official Windows driver has helped a lot in that area, as changing rates as often as I normally do no longer crashes or freezes up.the system as it did with the eval driver.  I will go back to my microRendu signal path, too.


----------



## ted_b

nada said:


> I read Ted's Holo review carefully and it took me a slow and careful read for me to understand all the info it carried. Like Ted's fine descriptors of the timbre and how the Holo Spring sounded with different popular contemporary digital feeds. I think anyone wanting a quick and dirty five star guide may be left  disappointed with Ted's approach but  i think that's inevitable with a nuanced and sophisticated review.
> 
> I  also think we can appreciate Ted's open disclosure and self-criticism about his background limits which I think is courageous. We all bring our preconceived filters along but for Ted to be insightful enough to be aware of his, rather then acting like hes a perfect objective expert is refreshing to say the least.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the nice comments. 
  
 Tim Connor (KitsuneHiFi) is just getting started, and I really like their new Holo Audio relationship with Jeff.  The dac retails at $2399 and because I had an early demo version I got it for $100 off (and did not pay shipping since it was already here).  No kickbacks, no nothin!!  I volunteer for Chris at CA (small stipend for writing reviews, would be used up at any 2 person decent California restaurant dinner) and volunteer my time at NativeDSD too (co-founder with Jared, Jonas and Tom).   I had a successful 35 year software sales and management career and retired early.  The stoner story was tongue-in-cheek and a small attempt at quickly telling my overall perspective on music vs audio.


----------



## phonyx

ted_b said:


> I appreciate the feedback.
> 
> First, I HAVE NOT HEARD THE YIGGY!  I shout because I mention that several times in the review followups, and stated unequivocally that I am open to someone sending me one...which someone is.  I posted that it ships on Monday..
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I appreciate you responding. I guess what made it hard for me to grasp where you were at is I've not (knowingly) read any of your previous reviews. Say JDarko says he really likes a DAC, I have a decent idea of what that DAC will be in the ballpark of. The way my brain works, and many others do too, if via comparison to known landmarks.
  
 My favourite reviews are those by ordinary folk with decent gear already who bring home a new item for a home audition and put it head to head against their gear. They don't have an agenda, they aren't remunerated for positive comments, they just straight up compare one item vs another, outlining through various tracks what one does best/worse and vice versa, and through this you get an idea of what they mean with their adjective and superlative choices, and where their preferences lie, almost removing the need to have read anything else they've done (indeed they may have not done anything else!). To be more concise, I like a review/reviewer to be able to stand alone and not need to be contextualized by my previous knowledge/preconceptions about the reviewers preferences.
  
 I found myself lost in your descriptions. I could have done a find/replace for Holo Dac and substituted any well regarded DAC on the market right now. Being a chinese market product, many of us can't listen to the Holo, so comparison to models we've either heard, owned or can audition is IMO critical as many I gather will be buying blind.  
  
 If you're certain it's better in NOS mode, I'd invite comparison to the Metrum Hex, Pavane, and Yggy as a minimum to place it in the market. It's disappointing that it's SRC modes are rubbish, however.


----------



## ted_b

Why would I start there???  Metrum Hex, Pavane and Yiggy do not do DSD at all, let alone a separate dac path (and I love my DSD collection, and several CA folks want to hear what I say about DSD cuz I've listened to 20+ DSD dacs in my 5 years of file-based DSD listening, started the DSD database with Jesus, wrote the SACD Ripping Guide, etc)..  I introduced that idea of reviewing dual path DSD/PCM dacs in what you called "all of us know this".section.   . 
  
 We are clearly on separate pages.   My fault for not being more obvious.  I offered to listen to the Yiggy cuz folks asked, but to spend all of my time comparing the PCM portion of the Holo Audio Spring to several other PCM-only dacs is not something I am vaguely interested in.


----------



## willsw

For anyone at RMAF, Kitsune just dropped off a Holo Spring DAC for us to use today (our DAC was lost by FedEx) in room 6015.


----------



## wuwhere

willsw said:


> For anyone at RMAF, Kitsune just dropped off a Holo Spring DAC for us to use today (our DAC was lost by FedEx) in room 6015.


 
  
 Sorry to hear that. That's nice of Kitsune.


----------



## lukeap69

willsw said:


> For anyone at RMAF, Kitsune just dropped off a Holo Spring DAC for us to use today (our DAC was lost by FedEx) in room 6015.


 
  
 Will - can you compare Holo Spring with DAC-19?


----------



## oneguy

willsw said:


> For anyone at RMAF, Kitsune just dropped off a Holo Spring DAC for us to use today (our DAC was lost by FedEx) in room 6015.




Someone is just giving it a quick listen to make sure it wasn't broken in transit. Really you should be thanking them because they are providing this service to you free of charge


----------



## willsw

lukeap69 said:


> Will - can you compare Holo Spring with DAC-19?


 
  
 It has been a while since I've listened to the DAC-19, and I only did so on headphones, while I'm hearing the Holo Spring through a much better overall system and speakers, so I can't really. 
  


oneguy said:


> Someone is just giving it a quick listen to make sure it wasn't broken in transit. Really you should be thanking them because they are providing this service to you free of charge


 
  
 I did thank them, in person, and am very appreciative that they came up and offered us the use of their DAC. I'm also glad we are able to give them an opportunity to have their DAC in more systems. I'd also like to thank Gordon Rankin of Wavelength for letting us borrow a Cosecant DAC, which sounded excellent, though we ended up needing a DSD-capable DAC and returned the tubed beauty.


----------



## lukeap69

willsw said:


> It has been a while since I've listened to the DAC-19, and I only did so on headphones, while I'm hearing the Holo Spring through a much better overall system and speakers, so I can't really.


 
  
 Understood Will. I will have mine probably in a week or 2 so I can compare them myself. I was just being impatient wanted to hear your opinion...


----------



## oneguy

willsw said:


> I did thank them, in person, and am very appreciative that they came up and offered us the use of their DAC. I'm also glad we are able to give them an opportunity to have their DAC in more systems. I'd also like to thank Gordon Rankin of Wavelength for letting us borrow a Cosecant DAC, which sounded excellent, though we ended up needing a DSD-capable DAC and returned the tubed beauty.




Sorry my "them" was ambiguous. I meant the person at FedEx who lost your DAC.


----------



## Nada

> The Spring DAC is his newest product and is the first DAC in history to be capable of DSD native on an R2R DAC!  This spring is capable of DSD256 and actually running on his bespoke discrete ladder DAC!.......Dual R2R network for PCM, and Dual R2R network for DSD!


 
  
  
 Please can someone who knows about DSD decoding explain how DSD with just one bit can possibly be decoded using a R2R array in the Holo DAC?  Doesnt DSD only need one resister for DA conversions? How can native DSD possibly use a ladder resistor array for analogue conversion with only one bit? 
  
 @Ted.B - with your extensive IT and DSD background and contacts I wonder if you can address this fundamental question at the core of the Holo DAC claims?
  
 PS Ted - I think your a brave man inviting criticism of your review on an open forum and handling it with such maturity. Thats cool disclosing your interests. Might be a first in the audio review world? I hope you add your disclosure as a footnote to your review like the medical journal authors have to. I think it gives you significant credibility. Thanks for your contribution to our hobby.


----------



## ted_b

nada said:


> Please can someone who knows about DSD decoding explain how DSD with just one bit can possibly be decoded using a R2R array in the Holo DAC?  Doesnt DSD only need one resister for DA conversions? How can native DSD possibly use a ladder resistor array for analogue conversion with only one bit?
> 
> @Ted.B - with your extensive IT and DSD background and contacts I wonder if you can address this fundamental question at the core of the Holo DAC claims?
> 
> PS Ted - I think your a brave man inviting criticism of your review on an open forum and handling it with such maturity. Thats cool disclosing your interests. Might be a first in the audio review world? I hope you add your disclosure as a footnote to your review like the medical journal authors have to. I think it gives you significant credibility. Thanks for your contribution to our hobby.


 
  
 Yes, I would love Jeff to come on and explain DSD with R2R, but when I asked hiom he said it would need to use propreitary info that he does not want to disclose.  So I went into the review with skepticism.  I will ask Jussi (HQPlayer developer) what he thinks, as he once responded to a discussion about MSB (similar issues) and said it was possible but they'd have to do x, y and z. 
  
 My listening to DSD via the Holo Audio Spring gives me no pause that they are doing native DSD well, whatever the process.  It sounds like my now sold Meitner sounded (the biggest mistake of my audio trading life, to ell that thing) except that Meitner was limited to DSD64 input.  It sounds somewhat similar to the exaSound, which also exhibits (in DSD) a very live, very dynamic, but not harsh sound.


----------



## phonyx

ted_b said:


> Why would I start there???  Metrum Hex, Pavane and Yiggy do not do DSD at all, let alone a separate dac path (and I love my DSD collection, and several CA folks want to hear what I say about DSD cuz I've listened to 20+ DSD dacs in my 5 years of file-based DSD listening, started the DSD database with Jesus, wrote the SACD Ripping Guide, etc)..  I introduced that idea of reviewing dual path DSD/PCM dacs in what you called "all of us know this".section.   .
> 
> We are clearly on separate pages.   My fault for not being more obvious.  I offered to listen to the Yiggy cuz folks asked, but to spend all of my time comparing the PCM portion of the Holo Audio Spring to several other PCM-only dacs is not something I am vaguely interested in.


 
  
 PCM is the bread and butter of all DAC's and you much preferred the Holo in NOS mode, so much so you didn't review it at all in any oversampling modes... so I'd say comparing this new DAC in NOS mode with a previous class leading NOS DAC's using PCM which makes up the majority if not the entirety of everyones music collections would be exactly what you'd want to aim for!


----------



## comzee

Whelp, I searched the thread and doesn't look like any reviews out yet. Specifically v.s. R2R DACs in the same price range, Yggdrasil and Master 7.
 The features mean nothing to me, DSD, oversampling capabilities, XMOS usb.
  
 I use a DDC for my Yggy and M7, and only play PCM 44.1 music.
 This is why I'm interested in SQ only as it relates to PCM 44.1. 
  
 Also, I hope some good impressions come in, for example Yggdrasil USB sucks. 
 It also needs at minimum 1-3 days on to sound 100%. 
  
 Someone reviewing Yggy brought to a meet that was turned off, using USB, it's going to sound like poop.
  
 I hope to see accurate reviews soon.


----------



## wuwhere

No comparisons yet, here's a quick impression in Audiogon from RMAF, last post.
  
 https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/holo-audio-spring-dac-affordable-discrete-r2r-multibit-dac-could-be?page=2


----------



## kazcou

A FPGA one bit DAC projet
http://fpga4fun.com/PWM_DAC.html
  
 Since DSD is using only one bit, it only needs to reprogramme the FPGA
  
 But I don't understand why people want a R2R DSD DAC and specialy for DSD use only.
 A good ES9018 DAC will performe better and for cheaper.


----------



## Tboooe

kazcou said:


> A FPGA one bit DAC projet
> http://fpga4fun.com/PWM_DAC.html
> 
> Since DSD is using only one bit, it only needs to reprogramme the FPGA
> ...


 
@kazcou it seems from your signature that you have this dac?  If so, how does it sound with DSD material?  I suppose that is the ultimate test of whether or not R2R makes sense for DSD.


----------



## kazcou

Still on the way to France... It is coming from China.
 I don't care about DSD, because there is no much DSD native musique, most of DSD are remasterized from an old 44khz/16bits master or new 352khz/24bits master.
  
 There is no reason to use R2R for DSD, R2R is only good for PCM.
 (A Delta Sigma is one bit DSP, so when it is coming to decoding a multibit sound file is using interpolation to rebuilt the signal. You lost some sharpness on the sound.
 A R2R is a multibit technology, so when you have to recreate the sound, you don't need to interpolate and the sound is accurate.
 But you need to remember, the decoder is only doing a part of the work and the preamp section is far more important in the final sound reproduction).
  
 Using a multibit technology for decoding a one bit sound format with a FPGA is wasting money for something inefficient. Is like using a general purpose processor for a specific work. A DSP (speciflized processor) like ES9018, AKM4490, CS3498, PCM1792 ..., will do the work faster, cost you less money, with a better result.


----------



## Tboooe

Thank you for your technical reply.  It helped me better understand how DACs work a little better.  I now see your point.  Perhaps a dumb question...even though R2R to decode DSD is inefficient could it sound better than using Delta Sigma?  A simple analogy is Class A amps versus Class A/B.  Class A amps are very inefficient but I do prefer them.


----------



## Radiohead99

Unless you have heard PCM upsampled to DSD 512 by a very good music server with HQP feeding into a DSD 512 capable dac, you dont know what you are missing out. I am doing this with my T+A dac. I have completely stopped using PCM section of the DAC for the past few years. I had Exasound E22 Mk2 and Lampizator L7 in the past. 
  
 In my opinion, just having a powerful PC to upsample to DSD 512 is not enough. You need to feed it clean power, have dedicated USB card, etc to realize what a revelation it is.


----------



## kazcou

tboooe said:


> Thank you for your technical reply.  It helped me better understand how DACs work a little better.  I now see your point.  Perhaps a dumb question...even though R2R to decode DSD is inefficient could it sound better than using Delta Sigma?  A simple analogy is Class A amps versus Class A/B.  Class A amps are very inefficient but I do prefer them.


 
 (like I said :"But you need to remember, the decoder is only doing a part of the work and the preamp section is far more important in the final sound reproduction").
  
 A FPGA will decode a DSD file like a normal DSP will do, but it will cost you more time to process the data and also will be more difficulte to set in place, you need to reconfigure you FPGA.
  
  
  
  


radiohead99 said:


> Unless you have heard PCM upsampled to DSD 512 by a very good music server with HQP feeding into a DSD 512 capable dac, you dont know what you are missing out. I am doing this with my T+A dac. I have completely stopped using PCM section of the DAC for the past few years. I had Exasound E22 Mk2 and Lampizator L7 in the past.
> 
> In my opinion, just having a powerful PC to upsample to DSD 512 is not enough. You need to feed it clean power, have dedicated USB card, etc to realize what a revelation it is.


 

 Upsampling PCM to DSD ? It is two differents formats, so you can't do that. You have to do a transcoding, so some informations will be lost and you will also lost all benefits of a R2R DAC !


----------



## Tboooe

kazcou said:


> Upsampling PCM to DSD ? It is two differents formats, so you can't do that. You have to do a transcoding, so some informations will be lost and you will also lost all benefits of a R2R DAC !


 
 I am not sure I understand this statement.  So when PCM is transcoded to DSD with something like HQ Player some information is lost?  How so?  Also, why would you lose the benefits of an R2R DAC if you send it a transcoded DSD signal?


----------



## kazcou

In PCM format for each frequency we have a depth encoded on 8bits or 16bits or 24bits or more
  
 When it come to DSD, as it is using only 1bit, you need to use PDM : 1 = the pitch is moving up and 0 = is moving down.
 For example in DSD 64 each frequency is sampled 64 times to determinated the depth.
 DSD it is still using interpolation, so is not 100% accurate.
  
 And for decoding a DSD file natively with a R2R DAC, the DAC is just reconfiguring the FPGA and make it works like a Delta Sigma DAC. It is  loosing all the interest of a multibits DAC, because it is using only 1bit and the depth is determinated by interpolation.


----------



## bimmer100

bmichels said:


> any MQA or ROON compatibility in the near future for this DAC ?


 
  
  
 Actually we are currently looking into this right now! so it's seriously being considered.


----------



## Peaceofmind

On the kitsunehifi.com website, it states "Free shipping for USA customers" but if you look at a checkout for a Holo Spring DAC there is a $130 flat rate shipping charge. Can someone clarify. Will that $130 shipping charge disappear upon completing the transaction for USA customers?


----------



## bimmer100

peaceofmind said:


> On the kitsunehifi.com website, it states "Free shipping for USA customers" but if you look at a checkout for a Holo Spring DAC there is a $130 flat rate shipping charge. Can someone clarify. Will that $130 shipping charge disappear upon completing the transaction for USA customers?


 
 its a glitch, it's fixed. 
  
 and yes, free shipping is ONLY for USA customers. most international customers have to pay 120-130usd. depending. (average)


----------



## Peaceofmind

Thanks!


----------



## Pixelplay

bimmer100 said:


> Actually we are currently looking into this right now! so it's seriously being considered.




Will this be implemented into existing new customers already received dac's?

Cheers
Greg


----------



## yage

kazcou said:


> In PCM format for each frequency we have a depth encoded on 8bits or 16bits or 24bits or more
> 
> When it come to DSD, as it is using only 1bit, you need to use PDM : 1 = the pitch is moving up and 0 = is moving down.
> For example in DSD 64 each frequency is sampled 64 times to determinated the depth.
> ...


 
  
 This post doesn't make any sense.
  
 First, DSD64 has a sampling frequency of 44.1 kHz * 64 = 2.8224 MHz.
  
 Second, if you have any oversampling filter involved, even in an R-2R DAC, you'll always have errors in the interpolation because it's mathematically impossible to create a perfect low pass filter. The only time you'll guarantee that the samples being fed to the DAC are exactly the same as those stored in a lossless file format or disc is if you use a non-oversampling DAC. Even then, there is a tradeoff due to the aliased images affecting the response in the audible frequency range. And yet what does it mean if the samples are different? Basically, a decrease in signal to noise ratio and an increase in harmonic distortion - most likely inaudible if the engineer knows what he's doing.
  
 I'm still interested in learning more about how DSD is decoded on the Spring DAC and whether or not there's any filtering of the ultrasonic noise.


----------



## bimmer100

pixelplay said:


> Will this be implemented into existing new customers already received dac's?
> 
> Cheers
> Greg




More than likely will be for the may DAC mainly. But while looking into this we are seeing if there may be an upgrade module option later down the road to integrate mqa. As of now, just looking into it further


----------



## Pixelplay

Thanks for the update Tim.
How was RMAF?


----------



## bimmer100

pixelplay said:


> Thanks for the update Tim.
> How was RMAF?




Rmaf went very well! Many positive impressions of our setup. And our DAC will be at the New York audio show in November too! With headamp again!!! 

Out pricing will be changing slightly though. Some of our suppliers in parts have increased prices and we are doing our best to keep pricing low. But the level 3 has some very pricey components in it and after our new orders were placed the costs have gone up significantly. So we are still going to keep price as low as we can manage. Also we might offer the photo rendering of its inner bits as an optional thing to order. At rmaf we had the top chassis panel showing all its wonderful layout in full high resolution print. This may be offered but the pricing may be difficult as some may find the cost to be too much. But the crowd response was very positive! Our cost to print these are not cheap but totally cool! We never intended to offer them as an option but we had a half dozen people wanting to order the DAC with this sticker applied!


----------



## oneguy

How much of a price change are you estimating?


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Very wise decision to go with Headamp, probably the most transparent headphone amps in the world along with Audio GD stuff. It will show perfectly how capable the DAC is.


----------



## Tboooe

oneguy said:


> How much of a price change are you estimating?


 
 +1....hopefully it wont push this DAC out of my price range.


----------



## tkcha

Hi     first time posting here head.fi     Im from Montreal  Orderd Kitsune tuned Edition 3 Spring DAC while ago With Tim.                                                                                                                                                                                      Now I got DHL shiping Notification by E.mail today morning so only few more days wait left.  I'm happy now but even more happy when I get the DAC. I will let you guys know how sound with my system.   For big thank you for Tim.  See you later.!!!


----------



## Dephezz

If someone could describe sonic differences between Jensen Cap lvl 2 and silver transformer lvl 3... 500$ can be spent on good interconnects or power cable.


----------



## wuwhere

dephezz said:


> If someone could describe sonic differences between Jensen Cap lvl 2 and silver transformer lvl 3... 500$ can be spent on good interconnects or power cable.


 
  
 I've asked for that comparison before. Both level 2 and level 3 have the Jensen caps, but the only difference between level 2 and level 3 is the expensive  2 silver transformers. Level 2 has copper transformers, the same as Level 1. I've read that they make a difference in amplifiers but not in a DAC. So I'm very curious as well.


----------



## Gibraltar

wuwhere said:


> I've asked for that comparison before. Both level 2 and level 3 have the Jensen caps, but the only difference between level 2 and level 3 is the expensive  2 silver transformers. Level 2 has copper transformers, the same as Level 1. I've read that they make a difference in amplifiers but not in a DAC. So I'm very curious as well.


 
  
 Pretty sure only the larger 100VA transformer is replaced with a silver wire one. No mention of changing the smaller one. This is the transformer that steps down the AC before it's regulated/rectified to DC in the power supply. Silver is popular for transformers that are in the signal path (MC step up, output transformers, etc), which I can understand since the audio signal is passing through them. This is the first time I've heard of someone using Silver in a PSU transformer though, so it's unclear what the expected result should be. I suppose it's similar to a power cable change.
  
 That being said, the level 3 version includes several other changes on top of the transformer, some of which are definitely in the audio signal path. From the Kitune webpage:
  
1. 100VAC O-type (NOT toroid) 99.99% Silver custom hand made audio transformer.
2. All copper wire is replaced with 1.5mm pure occ silver wire
3. Input film cap is replaced with a Mundorf Silver/Oil cap
4. All PCB plugs and wire plugs are removed and then wire is soldered direct to the PCB
5. Replaced IEC inlet connectors with Oyaide pure silver/rhodium plated connectors at the IEC inlet
6. Fuse is upgraded to Audio Horizon Platinum Reference (AHPR).(models sold after 10-1-2016)
7. Jensen Capacitors


----------



## wuwhere

gibraltar said:


> Pretty sure only the larger 100VA transformer is replaced with a silver wire one. No mention of changing the smaller one. This is the transformer that steps down the AC before it's regulated/rectified to DC in the power supply. Silver is popular for transformers that are in the signal path (MC step up, output transformers, etc), which I can understand since the audio signal is passing through them. This is the first time I've heard of someone using Silver in a PSU transformer though, so it's unclear what the expected result should be. I suppose it's similar to a power cable change.
> 
> That being said, the level 3 version includes several other changes on top of the transformer, some of which are definitely in the audio signal path. From the Kitune webpage:
> 
> ...


 
  
  I read that part now, these are Kitsune's upgrades? The price is now $2599 starting Nov. 1st. That is significantly higher than Level2's $1899?


----------



## phonyx

The level 3 seem part marketing department part audiophool part genuine benefit. Not sure it's worth the cost. We still do not have any decent comparative reviews of this DAC either...


----------



## oneguy

So the platinum fuse comes with with DAC? The text of the website makes it seem like you need to add it to your cart.


----------



## wuwhere

DAC technology advances so fast I'll just go with Level1 and call it a day. Taobao's price is cheaper?


----------



## Nada

¥*8890.00*
HOLO Audio 泉 Spring 全分立R2R 解碼器 支持DSD512 廣州現貨


----------



## bimmer100

we are currently looking into other sources to get parts. Unfortunately the price increase is put in place right now, yet we are not accepting new orders until we figure these issues out. It's still quite possible the price will remain the same. We have not sold one item at this price yet. Our new batch of dacs are going to be produced at he end of this month, and we are working hard to find sources to some of the unique parts in this specific build that allow us to keep pricing low. thank you for those who understand our situation. Keep posted or email me with questions you may have


----------



## bimmer100

oneguy said:


> So the platinum fuse comes with with DAC? The text of the website makes it seem like you need to add it to your cart.




We are now adding it to the DAC as factory installed. After buying these in bulk and shipping them to our factory our profit margin on each fuse is 8 dollars. But our view is that the sound matters most. In fact most parts are not marked up more than 15% so as a small company we don't make much of these builds. We do this for our passion in audio. The DAC used to be "optional" worth this fuse, but it's now officially part of the kitsune level 3 build.


----------



## bimmer100

gibraltar said:


> Pretty sure only the larger 100VA transformer is replaced with a silver wire one. No mention of changing the smaller one. This is the transformer that steps down the AC before it's regulated/rectified to DC in the power supply. Silver is popular for transformers that are in the signal path (MC step up, output transformers, etc), which I can understand since the audio signal is passing through them. This is the first time I've heard of someone using Silver in a PSU transformer though, so it's unclear what the expected result should be. I suppose it's similar to a power cable change.
> 
> That being said, the level 3 version includes several other changes on top of the transformer, some of which are definitely in the audio signal path. From the Kitune webpage:
> 
> ...




The early dacs did not have silver wire upgrades, or direct pcb soldering with Mundorf 9.5%, or the Mundorf cap that replaces the blue film cap on level1 or level2. Also the audio horizon fuse, and all the fsston connextors are upgraded from nickel plated copper to oyaide pure silver and rhodium plated connectors. And we are offering English support, 3 year parts and labor warranty. There is value here.

Yes there are quite a bit of new features added to the DAC''s official build. And in time there will be more reviews to explain some of the benefits. We have worked hard with a lot of testing to achieve the results of the level 3 DAC. We feel it's a tremendous value for the sonic benefits achieved. And we plan to get a comparison of all three models to show what exactly is different in our level 3. But your list is quite complete. Many of the level 3 options are all hand installed or made etc. the transformer is 99.99% silver and extremely low noise. The secondary transformer is purely for standby mode and not for audio. It keeps class a component warm and ready while all the outputs are disabled. Power consumption is reduceded significantly. Many know class a takes a while to warm up and sound its best, so we have this feature purely to keep it ready on demand instead of using the massive silver o type transformer.

On another note: we had our DAC measured in house on our own gear and posted those results online. As well as had Audio Precision measure it at rmaf with their apx555. Which I'm happy to post these results soon.


----------



## bimmer100

gibraltar said:


> Pretty sure only the larger 100VA transformer is replaced with a silver wire one. No mention of changing the smaller one. This is the transformer that steps down the AC before it's regulated/rectified to DC in the power supply. Silver is popular for transformers that are in the signal path (MC step up, output transformers, etc), which I can understand since the audio signal is passing through them. This is the first time I've heard of someone using Silver in a PSU transformer though, so it's unclear what the expected result should be. I suppose it's similar to a power cable change.
> 
> That being said, the level 3 version includes several other changes on top of the transformer, some of which are definitely in the audio signal path. From the Kitune webpage:
> 
> ...


 
  
 The small transformer has NOTHING to do with the audio path. It's for one purpose ONLY. standby mode. Otherwise the dac is running off the 100VAC pure silver transformer when the dac is out of Standby mode.
  
  
 The standard sealed transformer has NO benefit to upgrade or change. it's a perfectly capable transformer to keep class a components warm. In standy mode the outputs of the dac are also disabled. Yet all components have just enough power to stay warm when you're not using the dac. The importance of keeping class A components at temperature is not something I think I need to get into. Most know and understand this.


----------



## XVampireX

bimmer100 said:


> Rmaf went very well! Many positive impressions of our setup. And our DAC will be at the New York audio show in November too! With headamp again!!!
> 
> Out pricing will be changing slightly though. Some of our suppliers in parts have increased prices and we are doing our best to keep pricing low. But the level 3 has some very pricey components in it and after our new orders were placed the costs have gone up significantly. So we are still going to keep price as low as we can manage. Also we might offer the photo rendering of its inner bits as an optional thing to order. At rmaf we had the top chassis panel showing all its wonderful layout in full high resolution print. This may be offered but the pricing may be difficult as some may find the cost to be too much. But the crowd response was very positive! Our cost to print these are not cheap but totally cool! We never intended to offer them as an option but we had a half dozen people wanting to order the DAC with this sticker applied!


 
  
  
 Just because this post, and unless this stance changes right away, I'm not ordering one. Why? Because this is demand based change of price, as in, because your customers liked the DAC on RMAF, that is why you're going to increase the price, not because your suppliers increased the prices, JFYI, I was going to buy it, but now you've shown your real image.
  
http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp
  
 Edit: Edited out any form of swearing, still the same.


----------



## Pixelplay

That's a shame as clearly you have not read Tims reasons. Have you been following the silver market price?
I love this Dac and the only one missing out will be you. Very judgemental on your behalf on an open forum. No one is forcing you to purchase.


----------



## bimmer100

tboooe said:


> +1....hopefully it wont push this DAC out of my price range.


 
  
 We have posted an update on our website. And are honoring our RMAF pricing for a specific period of time. Either way, backlash or not, We can't make everyone happy. But we are offering a very fair solution. 
  
 We value our customer feedback and thank you for those who understand!


----------



## XVampireX

pixelplay said:


> That's a shame as clearly you have not read Tims reasons. Have you been following the silver market price?
> I love this Dac and the only one missing out will be you. Very judgemental on your behalf on an open forum. No one is forcing you to purchase.


 
  
 And still no information on whether it's better than Yggdrasil or not, since ATM, they share a similar price, now if it were better (even sound the same) than an Yggdrasil for the same price, I wouldn't mind getting it for a higher price.
  
 But I know propaganda when I see it, do 1+1 here - there was a large show, people liked the DAC, so now there's demand for the DAC, so why not raise the price get more money from sales.


----------



## greenkiwi

To be fair, he has mentioned a number of times that the price will be going up as a result of the transformer price going up. And this was all before rmaf. 

Before making unsubstantiated claims, one could do some research and find out the price of those silver transformers.


----------



## bimmer100

greenkiwi said:


> To be fair, he has mentioned a number of times that the price will be going up as a result of the transformer price going up. And this was all before rmaf.
> 
> Before making unsubstantiated claims, one could do some research and find out the price of those silver transformers.


 
 This is only one variable, And our transfomer is actually quite specific in using it's own uniquely sourced wire and exclusively made to kitsune Hifi Specifications. Another cost is the including all pure silver wire instead of copper wire and replacing all the faston connnectors with pure silver/rhodium plated connectors, also a quite pricey mundorf cap is added to replace the blue film cap, and a lot of extra labor involved as well. plus the audio horizon fuse. I've asked over a dozen customers what their thoughts on included the fuse as PART OF THE PRICE, and all of them agreed to add for our cost. which we are doing. But will now reconsider and offer it without at a 100dollars discount which is OUR COST!  The value is there, but the sound is most important.  We encourage you to go to other companies and listen to competition. PLEASE. That's great, because we know there are a lot of good options on the market, yet we stand confident knowing the price point we are at is extremely competitive.  Money doesn't drive us, it's the passion for music.   
  
  
 anyhow, People will view this however they see fit. RMAF is not why the prices are going up. We have remained transparent through this whole process and still are trying to level with our customers. We choose our vendors carefully and hope our customers will follow us along the way. We can't make everyone happy. We know this.
  
 Those who did take a listen to our dac will know what value they truly are getting. I WILL NOT comment on other dac's  or mention that many customers have sold "unamed" dacs after purchasing their spring dac. We know it's capable and are proud of it's price poin and level of performance. We want to try to stick to the facts on this forum and stay on topic.  

 I understand there will be upset customers so we are cushioning this transition. Take this as you well.  I soon to be leaving Headfi for this very reason of politics.  I know our product speaks for itself and there is no need for me to come on here to post. So that being said, I've not much else to comment on. We are adjusting accordingly to industry changes, and those who understand this, thank you so much. We appreciate the support of all our customers who are truly behind us and supporting our company!


----------



## bimmer100

Those who don't see it now. the prices of silver have risen by 60% from a few of our vendors already. And we don't know how much worse this will get. Current market prices are still being manipulated a bit so showing it being lower. But industry demand is significant right now. Asking around and doing some homework will reveal what is going on. 
  
 For instance, a meter of 2mm silver wire cost me 30usd a week ago and now is 50usd. I'm looking at other vendors...sure, but that's not the point. there is no replacement for silver. the costs will be going up eventually. all gadgets will cost more eventually. I don't want to believe it, but when prices start to go up, I start to panic. It's never been "cheap" and it will only go in one direction from this day forward. UP.  I used to invest in the silver market before it's last boom.  but this market can't stay down low forever. although... I wish it could.
  
 http://www.silverdoctors.com/silver/silver-news/industry-insider-silver-price-to-surge-to-over-100oz-on-global-tech-gadget-demand/
  
  
 http://www.commoditytrademantra.com/silver-trading-news/why-silver-prices-could-have-considerably-more-upside-than-gold/
  
  
 just a few of dozens and dozens of articles discussing silver currently. for those who care. 
  
 But when my vendors change prices then it becomes very real to us.  RMAF has nothing to do with it, DEMAND has nothing to do with it. we knew and expected demand no matter if we did RMAF or not.


----------



## kazcou

greenkiwi said:


> To be fair, he has mentioned a number of times that the price will be going up as a result of the transformer price going up. And this was all before rmaf.
> 
> Before making unsubstantiated claims, one could do some research and find out the price of those silver transformers.


 

 I think it is a special order, because no one is using silver in power transformer.
 Even in highend DAC like Trinity GTE, Gryphon Galliope, MBL 1611... there are using cooper transformer.
 So you need to contact the supplier and ask them a price quote for a special order.
  
 Since october the price of silver is moving down and the last 4 months the price was relatively stable, there is no good reason to see the price of those transformer moving up.
 A good manufacturer like Lundahl have not changed there price on silver OPT since more than 3 years.


----------



## bliptrip

bimmer100 said:


> But when my vendors change prices then it becomes very real to us.  RMAF has nothing to do with it, DEMAND has nothing to do with it. we knew and expected demand no matter if we did RMAF or not.


 
 Guys, it's not like Kitsune has been sitting on a batch of 1000 of these units that he bought four months ago and is increasing price on his existing stock in an attempt to capitalize on market buzz. From what I gather, Holo Audio China is making these in really small batches and sending them overseas to Kitsune or drop shipping to Kitsune's customers directly. There are what, less than 25 in existence as of now? When electronics are made on this small of a scale, price changes on a batch-by-batch basis are just the reality. Tim seems like one of the good guys, not sure whey he is getting all of the heat here..


----------



## Peaceofmind

For anyone complaining about high prices in Hi-Fi gear, you are definitely in the wrong hobby. The marketplace alone will determine which Hi-Fi companies survives this dog eat dog world.


----------



## Hi-Phi

xvampirex said:


> And still no information on whether it's better than Yggdrasil or not, since ATM, they share a similar price, now if it were better (even sound the same) than an Yggdrasil for the same price, I wouldn't mind getting it for a higher price.
> 
> But I know propaganda when I see it, do 1+1 here - there was a large show, people liked the DAC, so now there's demand for the DAC, so why not raise the price get more money from sales.


 
 The Spring DAC is certainly leagues ahead of the yiggy... I have heard both (own a kitsune tuned edition spring). The yiggy is a not capable of producing sound half as good as the spring (literally) -- it can't even do dsd.
  
*Vampire*, you should totally get the yiggy!


----------



## Hi-Phi

And just as an aside I will add that the HOLO Spring competes with dacs double and triple its price. You should not be complaining about pricing going up.... especially considering that it is because of raw material and component cost.
  
 Just my 2 cents!


----------



## ZGojira

Quote:


hi-phi said:


> The Spring DAC is certainly leagues ahead of the yiggy... I have heard both (own a kitsune tuned edition spring). The yiggy is a not capable of producing sound half as good as the spring (literally) -- it can't even do dsd.
> 
> *Vampire*, you should totally get the yiggy!


 
  
 May I ask how much time you spent with the Yggd, and what was was the rest of the system you heard both out of?
  
 I was deciding between the Yggd and the Spring, I ended up ordering the spring because of DSD support.
  
 Does the spring need to be left on for weeks like the Yggd to sound it's best?


----------



## phonyx

hi-phi said:


> And just as an aside I will add that the HOLO Spring competes with dacs double and triple its price.


 
  
 That old chestnut 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Were veils lifted, too?
  
 To date, there has been exactly zero reviews of this DAC that put it up against competition in or around its price bracket and do a good job explaining the sonic differences. Nor are there any reviews that compare the sonic differences between the Level 1, 2 and 3 grades. This whole product is marketing noise and hilarious claims of competing with units 3 times its price (still laughing at that one) until someone gets it on a test bench and a few serious comparative reviews appear.


----------



## mock-up

You can start following this thread (in Russian, learn Russian 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
 http://dastereo.ru/t/holo-audio-spring-dac-r2r-dsd512/2075
  
 It's promo tour of HOLO Audio Spring DAC (Jensen, Silver Trafo, AN Trans) in Russia.
  
 It's compared against
 — Berkeley DAC 1 and Wadia 15 — http://www.dastereo.ru/t/holo-audio-spring-dac-r2r-dsd512/2075/489
 — Naim DAC with Teddy PSU
 — Today it will fight against Metrum Pavane
  
 Various listeners will review it in their own system Hilo DAC, Rokna DAC,


----------



## XVampireX

peaceofmind said:


> For anyone complaining about high prices in Hi-Fi gear, you are definitely in the wrong hobby. The marketplace alone will determine which Hi-Fi companies survives this dog eat dog world.


 
  
 I'm not complaining about high prices I'm complaining about the sudden increase right after a show. If you notice my gear is not any cheaper than this DAC...


mock-up said:


> You can start following this thread (in Russian, learn Russian
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, someone gave me that link on PM, good that I'm also originally from Ukraine so not having problems with Russian 
  
 But honestly, even after all the buzz AND RMAF there wasn't a word about it on the main gear websites like innerfidelity/audiostream/stereophile nor any other, not darko not anything, what goes?


----------



## mock-up

xvampirex said:


> But honestly, even after all the buzz AND RMAF there wasn't a word about it on the main gear websites like innerfidelity/audiostream/stereophile nor any other, not darko not anything, what goes?


 
  
 Do you any ideas how review cycle works?


----------



## bimmer100

Price remains the same @ 2399usd until the new year. RMAF was our announcement of the dac. Also the announcement of our new signed drivers for Win 7/8/8.1 and 10 (for those who know how pricey these are also understand how awesome this news is) We decided to officially add many new options/mods and this raised the price of the dac as our customers felt these mods are packed with value and worth the increase. We apologize to those who believe we are equal to being a massive corporate company with endless amounts of money for inventory. Reality is we are a smaller company that hand builds each Tuned Edition with very high end components and a lot of passion for audio. Our markup is very small. And maybe our fault for keeping the markup too small in the beginning. We still need to make a profit and run a business so some will understand what we are doing and why. 
  
 There has been many customers/companies even that have told us to charge 5grand, 6grand, 8grand even!  One particular customer stopped by our booth to hear more about this dac and then listen to the dac, He simply told me that after seeing the BOM(bill of materials) and listening to it that it must be quite expensive. He continued to mention how he noticed the components in it were of better quality than most dac's he has seen.  I asked him his opinion on what price he thinks it would sell for, and was told at least 5 grand.  I said, try less than half of that price.  And I say that proudly because we are not trying to cash grab or markup "just because we can"  The real reason for markup is exactly what we are saying. Those who listened to us at RMAF know what growing pains we are going through with some of our vendors. We have found solutions to this and are adjusting "slightly" all while having one thing in mind. KEEP COST AS LOW AS POSSIBLE. Take what I say to heart, or take it with a grain of salt.
  
  
 I'm saying we will honor our pricing til the end of this year. So happy holidays to all of our customers and potential customers. We appreciate those who support us! 
  
  
 -Tim and Dawn Connor
 KitsuneHiFi & Holo Audio USA


----------



## rigo

Hoping to hear this one day. Extended pricing is appreciated.


----------



## Currawong

xvampirex said:


> But honestly, even after all the buzz AND RMAF there wasn't a word about it on the main gear websites like innerfidelity/audiostream/stereophile nor any other, not darko not anything, what goes?


 
  
 A number of DACs and other products weren't mentioned in any major review sites for _years_ after they been available and well-known on Head-Fi.  I reckon if you are really that desperate to read a comparative review, please buy or borrow the DACs you require compared and do it yourself.
  
 But between the options of sending out, say, $10k of product for review versus selling that $10k worth of product, I don't see why one would bother doing the former if there was already customer demand.


----------



## comzee

currawong said:


> A number of DACs and other products weren't mentioned in any major review sites for _years_ after they been available and well-known on Head-Fi.


 
  I'm not talking for @XVampireX
 This is just my own own qualms. I agree with you, major review sites are slow. I'll also add major review sites inherently have a bias, I don't usually go to them for honest reviews. 
  
 Quote:


currawong said:


> I reckon if you are really that desperate to read a comparative review, please buy or borrow the DACs you require compared and do it yourself.


 
  Obviously unsustainable for the general public. This is the essence of why reviews even exist. To purport this is needed for someone to get an informed opinion... sure if money grows on trees. 
  
 Quote:


currawong said:


> But between the options of sending out, say, $10k of product for review versus selling that $10k worth of product, I don't see why one would bother doing the former if there was already customer demand.


 
 I agree here. No reason Kitsune should be sending these out for free review.
 BUT... This is why people come to sites, such as the one I'm typing this reply on, "Head-Fi". Most people generally go on forums to to get user reviews and advice on products.
  
 I have (maybe?) the same question as XVampireX, where's the user reviews..?
 In this entire thread, there is only one person with a review of this DAC v.s. a similarly priced competitor, the Yggdrasil.
  


hi-phi said:


> The Spring DAC is certainly leagues ahead of the yiggy...


 
  Pretty cocksure declaration, with no explanation to believe it. Just a statement out in the vacuum of space.
  
 Quote:


hi-phi said:


> I have heard both (own a kitsune tuned edition spring). The yiggy is a not capable of producing sound half as good as the spring (literally) -- it can't even do dsd.


 
 I want to preface this, I'm really not trying to bash anybody, or the product here.
 With that said, this sounds like a ten year old trying to convince his friend why his Nerf gun is better than his.
  
 There is only one review in this thread, non-articulated with bold hyperbolized statements.
 Reviews like that actually tilt me away from the product, not towards it.
 As anybody knows, when you get the precipice of audio quality, gains are small.
  
  
 Don't get my wrong, I'm super excited from the buzz around this DAC. I even talked with @bimmer100 about probably selling either my Yggy or M7 to get the Holo DAC. Although, I'd like to not fall into hype like so many products on these forums. I'll stay inquisitive, but apprehensive, until really solid user reviews come in.


----------



## lukeap69

Here is the first picture of my Holo Spring sent by my dealer (not Kitsune) if anybody is interested.
  
  

  
 Pretty neat IMO.
  
 This is a Level 3 Spring but not the Kitsune tuned edition. I hope to receive it in few days time...


----------



## mock-up

lukeap69 said:


> Here is the first picture of my Holo Spring sent by my dealer (not Kitsune) if anybody is interested.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Is Wildism Audio your dealer-customizer? Looks looks like it is.


----------



## lukeap69

mock-up said:


> Is Wildism Audio your dealer-customizer? Looks looks like it is.


 
  
 Yes - spot on.Have you dealt with him before?


----------



## mock-up

Yes, I have the same top version but with Audio Note transformer.
 My Holo Spring (Wildism Audio editions) goes across Russia in tour — http://dastereo.ru/t/holo-audio-spring-dac-r2r-dsd512/2075
  
 BTW Soundaware D100 is pretty good source for Spring as one reviewer said.


----------



## lukeap69

mock-up said:


> Yes, I have the same top version but with Audio Note transformer.
> My Holo Spring (Wildism Audio editions) goes across Russia in tour — http://dastereo.ru/t/holo-audio-spring-dac-r2r-dsd512/2075
> 
> BTW Soundaware D100 is pretty good source for Spring as one reviewer said.


 
  
 Excellent! I will appreciate is you can provide feedback from the lucky part of the tour. 
  
 Yes, Soundaware D100 Pro is really a good source, period. It made my DAC-19 (current DAC) really sings.


----------



## Pixelplay

comzee said:


> I agree here. No reason Kitsune should be sending these out for free review.
> BUT... This is why people come to sites, such as the one I'm typing this reply on, "Head-Fi". Most people generally go on forums to to get user reviews and advice on products.
> 
> I have (maybe?) the same question as XVampireX, where's the user reviews..?
> ...




There are some more comparisons on AGon that may put your mind to rest


----------



## Pixelplay

Quote from AGon:
"Thanks guys,
My post was no attempt to write a formal review but rather an impression of its performance relative to a know highly regarded reference such as the Bricasti SE. If the additionof the Singxer SU-1 provides even modest improvement then we have a DAC of enormous performance/cost value. This is excellent news for those shopping for terrific sound quality at very reasonable cost."

I will be comparing it to the MSB Platinum this week......

Cheers
Greg


----------



## Currawong

comzee said:


> I have (maybe?) the same question as XVampireX, where's the user reviews..?


 
  
 The vast majority of people who buy a product will never even attempt to comment on it, let alone review it. On Head-Fi, it's usually only when either someone enthusiastic to share their impressions, or a seasoned member gets hold of something that you see anything like a review. If a product is getting a large number of reviews, it is because it is selling in great quantities, the manufacturer is very well-known here, they have sent out dozens of review samples, or some combination of all that. 
  
 One of my other hobbies is photography. However despite having been one for many years, owned many cameras and accessories, and read much online, I think in the past decade I've only posted twice on any forum or site. This is the way it is for the vast majority of people who read sites with reviews or discussion.


----------



## ZGojira

mock-up said:


> Yes, I have the same top version but with Audio Note transformer.
> My Holo Spring (Wildism Audio editions) goes across Russia in tour — http://dastereo.ru/t/holo-audio-spring-dac-r2r-dsd512/2075
> 
> BTW Soundaware D100 is pretty good source for Spring as one reviewer said.


 

 What digital inputs do you use?
 I thought the Audio Note transformer is only used for Coax and AES....


----------



## bimmer100

zgojira said:


> What digital inputs do you use?
> I thought the Audio Note transformer is only used for Coax and AES....



The audio note transformer is one mod we don't offer but we have a better option if you feel it's needed. A Russian hand wound pure silver transformer of better spec. But this mod is not recommended and only makes the sound richer and able to run long runs of 50ft of aes cable. It's for 110 ohm and frankly no point to do it unless you really do have the need for a long run cable. Otherwise it's kind of pointless , this opinion from our designer and tuner. So we won't offer it simply due to us believing it doesn't give any benefit of sound quality improvement compared to cost. Take it as you will. But maybe for a studio situation and need to run cables across the way. Sure! The stock transformer is more neutral and natural imho. And sufficient for most people running shorter cables under 10ft or so. At least this partially my understanding for the transformer aes upgrade. For 110ohm.


----------



## ZGojira

bimmer100 said:


> The audio note transformer is one mod we don't offer but we have a better option if you feel it's needed. A Russian hand wound pure silver transformer of better spec. But this mod is not recommended and only makes the sound richer and able to run long runs of 50ft of aes cable. It's for 110 ohm and frankly no point to do it unless you really do have the need for a long run cable. Otherwise it's kind of pointless , this opinion from our designer and tuner. So we won't offer it simply due to us believing it doesn't give any benefit of sound quality improvement compared to cost. Take it as you will. But maybe for a studio situation and need to run cables across the way. Sure! The stock transformer is more neutral and natural imho. And sufficient for most people running shorter cables under 10ft or so. At least this partially my understanding for the transformer aes upgrade. For 110ohm.


 

 Thanks for clearing things up!
  
 I ordered my Spring from HK with everything sans the transformer because I primarily use toslink and USB.
 Can't wait for it to arrive


----------



## lukeap69

Mine does not have the Audionote transformer as well. That will add to the total cost if included.


----------



## hifimckinney

Guys, Some listening impressions please!!! We have talked lot about engine, carburetor, bonnet etc...how does it ride???


----------



## bimmer100

A whole lot more dacs shipped out today. 4 lkitsune tuned editions. And one level1

I will have a level 1, level 2 and level 3 soon. And have a review of those done.


----------



## tkcha

hi  all     I juast received kitsune tuned edition 3 spring DAC  2hours warm up after first listen with my system using jriver upsmpling dsd128 to dac nos mod already sound good compare to my old dac PS audio perfectwave mark2,calyx M DAP.     My first impression about holo dac is very positive I'm  very happy campe.  my IC and PC also brand new from Audio Sensibility statement occ cable so need time to settle down.   when I get 100 hour burn in I comeback here give more detail impression     from   CANADA CHA    bye  all !!!!


----------



## hans030390

I know I don't post around here too often these days, but I got a Level 3 Spring fairly early on. So far so good. I only use it for non-oversampling, PCM purposes. I have absolutey zero interest in DSD, I prefer a non-oversampled sound, and if I do want oversampling, I'm likely to lean towards highly customized digital filters or something with minimal ringing (I do really like Schiit's filters, maybe one of my favorites...if only I could use it on more DACs!). I am meeting with a couple folks tomorrow to do some head-to-head DAC comparisons, namely against the Pavane, and will have a review ready sometime within the week after. I simply didn't want to write a review without good, direct comparisons, and I like to take my time listening to get a good feel for a product and let the "new toy syndrome" wear off in order to mitigate bias and provide quality content.


----------



## Joeybgood

Received my Spring L3 yesterday. After only a couple hours after warm up I am quite impressed. Very holographic/3D presentation with truly awesome detail. Felt like I was listening at a live venue,  which is precisely the sound I have always attempted to achieve but it has escaped me.. (I attend live music events very often) perhaps until now.  More impressions to follow as it's way too soon yet. Wanting to get a 150+hrs of use/burn-in first. Big tks to Tim for his top notch service/assistance with this acquisition and other gear of late. Much appreciated! Great guy to work/deal with.


----------



## Tboooe

Thank you guys!  Looking forward to more feedback.
  
@Joeybgood do you intend to use DSD with the Holo?  Thats what I am mainly interested in as I use HQP to convert everything to DSD256.


----------



## Joeybgood

tboooe said:


> Thank you guys!  Looking forward to more feedback.
> 
> @Joeybgood do you intend to use DSD with the Holo?  Thats what I am mainly interested in as I use HQP to convert everything to DSD256


 
 I Do although I have been strictly a redbook (and some 24bit music) guy until this point.  I plan to delve into DSD somewhat and if I feel it's superior enough I will likely pursue more. I'm not very tech savvy and  I use Foobar2K. The add on that I dl'd for DSD playback hasn't done the trick. Need to figure out what I'm missing so I am able to listen to the handful of 2.8 and 5.6 files that were available as freebies on ProMaster w/s. If DSD is rendered as beautifully and holographically as the PCM is, I will be very very pleased and impressed.


----------



## comzee

joeybgood said:


> Very holographic/3D presentation with truly awesome detail. Felt like I was listening at a live venue,  which is precisely the sound I have always attempted to achieve but it has escaped me..


 
 I see you have owned both the Yggdrasil and Pavane.
 What specifically is the Holo DAC doing that surpasses those two?
  
 I've been looking for specifics, and only reviews I can find are simplistic (Holo > X).
 I'd be appreciative if you articulated the differences in a more granular description.


----------



## Joeybgood

comzee said:


> I see you have owned both the Yggdrasil and Pavane.
> What specifically is the Holo DAC doing that surpasses those two?
> 
> I've been looking for specifics, and only reviews I can find are simplistic (Holo > X).
> I'd be appreciative if you articulated the differences in a more granular description.


 
 I will absolutely oblige once I've had some more extensive time with it. It just arrived last evening and after an hour or so of warm up I gave it about an hour or so of listening. But I was immediately struck with how enveloped by the sound I was. Detailed, fully fleshed out music that had a realness to it that I had not experienced before. Not even with Yggy or Pavane. I'll leave it at that for now but I'm very excited about this unit.


----------



## bimmer100

"Time will tell..."


----------



## Nada

joeybgood said:


> I will absolutely oblige once I've had some more extensive time with it. It just arrived last evening and after an hour or so of warm up I gave it about an hour or so of listening. But I was immediately struck with how enveloped by the sound I was. Detailed, fully fleshed out music that had a realness to it that I had not experienced before. Not even with Yggy or Pavane. I'll leave it at that for now but I'm very excited about this unit.


 
  
 Thanks for the early feedback. I wonder if you can directly A/B the Holo / Yggy / Pavane at sme stage so you dont have to rely on longterm memory? Apparently auditory memory only lasts a matter of seconds.


----------



## Joeybgood

nada said:


> Thanks for the early feedback. I wonder if you can directly A/B the Holo / Yggy / Pavane at sme stage so you dont have to rely on longterm memory? Apparently auditory memory only lasts a matter of seconds.


 
 I agree Nana. Without them all present simultaneously to compare, it is soooooo difficult to do so with any accuracy. My memory is not fantastic but I DO know that I have never experienced this level of musicality and joy with any of my previous DACs. none.. I am stunned by how good the Spring is. Truth.


----------



## Articnoise

nada said:


> Thanks for the early feedback. I wonder if you can directly A/B the Holo / Yggy / Pavane at sme stage so you dont have to rely on longterm memory? Apparently auditory memory only lasts a matter of seconds.


 
  

 If auditory memory only lasts a matter of seconds, it would mean that you don’t know and can’t remember how real voices and instruments like a piano or a trumpet sounds like. No actual audio reference for how they sounds like live, unamped. With no audio reference you would not be able to determine if the voices and/or instruments you hear is playing live or if it’s recorded and played by a hifi system. 

  

 The study on auditory memory was NOT about SQ or sound signature. It was about how one can remember audio details, just like other studies there people are asked to look at a picture for 20 sec and then are asked to say which stuff they can remember from the picture. If I for example don’t remember that it was a cat in the picture it doesn’t mean that I don’t know how a cat looks like.


----------



## Nada

articnoise said:


> If auditory memory only lasts a matter of seconds, ....


 
  
 Theres no if. Auditory memory only lasts seconds. You can clear up your confusion by understanding the differences between sensory memory, short term memory, long term memory and working memory.


----------



## Nada

joeybgood said:


> ........t I have never experienced this level of musicality and joy with any of my previous DACs. none......


 
  
 Thanks for sharing. Your opinion means a lot to me considering your former DAC's. I think the experience of joy is the most important quality for me in listening to music. Cheers.


----------



## Articnoise

nada said:


> Theres no if. Auditory memory only lasts seconds. You can clear up your confusion by understanding the differences between sensory memory, short term memory, long term memory and working memory.


 
  

 I would say that it is you that is confused and don’t know what Auditory memory is. The short auditory memory, that some says is as short as 4 sec, has nothing to do with comparing sound quality, it’s about remember sequences, learning ability and so on. Use some common sense!

  

_“Auditory memory involves being able to take in information that is presented orally to you, process that information, store it in your mind and then recall what you have learned. Basically, it involves the tasks of attending, listening, processing, storing, and recalling. This, for many students, even those who are not disabled, can be an extremely difficult task.”_

_ _

_“Musical memory is an entirely different area of Auditory memory. First, most musicians can listen to music and identify the instruments.  I can recognize a piano, guitar, banjo, violin, bass, clarinet, saxophone, flute, drum, cymbals and a few other basic instruments. But could I recognize a viola, a cello,  mandolin, french horn, trumpet, cornet, trombone, and others? Maybe in some circumstances, but most of the time, music is not my field.”_

_ _

http://www.breakthroughlearningcollege.com/memory/auditory-memory/ 

  

_“Auditory memory involves being able to take in information that is presented orally, to process that information, store it in one's mind and then recall what one has heard. Basically, it involves the skills of attending, listening, processing, storing, and recalling.”_

_ _

_“To test the auditory digit span of a child, say numbers slowly in one second intervals, in a monotone voice. Say, for example, 6-1-5-8 and have the child repeat it back. If he can, then say 9-2-4-7-5. The child must be able to say a 4 digit sequence back correctly 75% of the time on the first try to be considered at a short-term memory of 4, and it is the same for each higher digit.”_

  

http://www.learninginfo.org/auditory-memory.htm 

  

  

_“The Auditory Memory Test focuses on short-term auditory memory which consists in reproduction of verbal cues within a short interval. It is aimed at diagnostics of employees in such positions, where short term remory of facts and information is important, e.g. telephone operators, call centre workers, customer support, or counter clerks.”_

_ _

http://www.tcconline.eu/auditory-memory-test/


----------



## motberg

articnoise said:


> I would say that it is you that is confused and don’t know what Auditory memory is. The short auditory memory, that some says is as short as 4 sec, has nothing to do with comparing sound quality, it’s about remember sequences, learning ability and so on. Use some common sense!


 
 I agree on this, technically correct or not, many times I evaluate my system based upon my memory of sounds encountered during live performances many years ago..
 Stuff like the sound signature of a Leslie cabinet or Precision Bass playing a few feet away seem to get solidly burned into the old grey cells...


----------



## tkcha

Hi   All.   I'm 50 years old I'been audiophile 35 years now my exprience mostly speaker base system until 2012 but because under circumstance can't have a dedicated listening room so started Headphone journey.
 My systems are PC with JRIVER 20 bitstreaming or DSD256 upsampling. Blue Circle Audio FX2 XOe power conditioner,Inderstrial Version Intona,Holo Kitsune Edition Spring 3 DAC, Woo audio 6SE,
 Macorni U52 Rectify tube,6FD7 fat bottle driv tube, Modded HE6 Audio sensibility OCC Copper cable, Hifiman HEK, AKG 551. All my IC, PC are Audio Sensibility statement OCC cables, USB cables are Supra.
 Now I have 4 Systems.   A: 2 channell speaker system: Vintage AR horn tweeter based Large Moniter,DIY Full range 16'.18'.50' size,morel cat308 tweeter,Focal 4 inch mid, 2 Focal 8 inch woopers with HMDF cabinet.
 PS Audio Perfectwave Mark2 as dac/pre, Parasound JC1 mono Amp with B: onkyo AV reciever 5.1 Home theater system.      C: Audio Engine A5+ desktop power moniter with 8inch subwooper, Calyx M,Fiio X5 gen2 DAP using as Dac.         Since 2014 I was serching for reference grade DAC, listened Chord Hugo,2Qute,HugoTT,Hegel HD30,
 SIM audio Moon 380D neo DSD,Moon EVO 780D DSD at my system.   but not satisfied non of them.         while auditioning these dacs visited many dealer,show listened PS audio DS,DCS vivaldi full stack,MSB analog, Diamond
 5,Bricasti M1SE all most any high-end dac but some of i like It's out of my reach  which mbs,dcs are crazy money then Holo Spring DAC got my attention.   After 2 phone call with Tim I ordered  Now  I Have about 120 hours  burn in so I got many good reading from here  so  Here U ARE My detail impression.
  
  
 HIGHS
  
 Talking About HIghs always details and extention or roll off, hash that hurting your ears  kind of stuff  but Spring dac is so diffrent then any other dac under $10K dac  silky smooth high with jobs of detail,extra extention either red book
 High-Res,DSD .    compare to Other dacs best details without harsh treble.    A+
  
 MIDS
  
 The Mids Are about Vocals,Instrument how natural, neutral sound is.   Spring DAC contained very good midbase attack [boogy factor] make u  tap toes while listening.   I love Vocals at this dac so much Patricia Barber MFSL CAFE BLUE DSD, she singing for me in my room.  SO much more realism than other dacs I Listened before.  A++
  
 BASS
  
 Tight And Fast.  Once my Modded HE6 always I want more base compare to Audeze LCDs.
 Now I Don't think missing any base actully might I like more that tight,dry not wet base with lighting strike fast transition.     Layer after layer between drum skin to diffrent drums base details are so good not mono tone base It's a lot of dacs problem.      Spring Is quiet amazing.
  
 Image, Soundstage 
  
 On Hifimam HEK already have very good soundstage but with Spring dac wider,deeper, taller and Holographic 3D Fleeing to it   woo WOO..   but not finnish yet It Works even better with Modded HE6  that soundstage better than ever with Pin Point Image.
  
 FINALE
  
 Music choice,setting: 15000 Albums on 8T HDD. lot of XRCD,DCC,Audio Fideility,MFSL UDGOLD CD,K2HD,SHM CD,BS CD FLAC,WAV and 2000 HIGH-REZ downloading from HD tracks, quboz.  1500 DSD albums, include about 50. 128,256 dsd albums.  classical,jazz, classic rock,progressive rock,blues, vocals,heavy metal, K-POP everything if music is good.
 all PCM albums Bitstreming to NOS mode dac i like this setting.    maybe some people like upsampling to dsd256 but for me pcm to pcm withput upsmpling. single DSD bitstreaming sound good but upsampling to 256 better.  but u DON'T need to 128,256 upsampling to higher.    THAT'S   IT  TODAY
 SO U GUYS GUESSING !!!       YES I'M  OVER THE MOON THAT HAPPY !!!!!   do not read too much listen more!!


----------



## lukeap69

@tkcha

I can relate completely with your impressions especially the bass and drums. Thanks for your impressions.


----------



## tkcha

HI   again   I forgot to mention about Exasound E22   also very good sounding dac especilly DSD BUT pcm sound hold me not buying it.
 also  I Wanna talk about Chord,PS audio using FPGA sound very good on PCM but not with DSD  why is that ?
 I didn't hear DAVE  how about DSD sound?     ultra high-end  DAC   like MSB select, DCS vivaldi ,Esoteric Grandioso  these are real deal  if u
 have money go listen to them  diffrent leage  themselves.
 And nobody listen to DXD u better do that with good dac that sound better than DSD128  only 256 can beat it.


----------



## ZGojira

tkcha said:


> HI   again   I forgot to mention about Exasound E22   also very good sounding dac especilly DSD BUT pcm sound hold me not buying it.
> also  I Wanna talk about Chord,PS audio using FPGA sound very good on PCM but not with DSD  why is that ?
> I didn't hear DAVE  how about DSD sound?     ultra high-end  DAC   like MSB select, DCS vivaldi ,Esoteric Grandioso  these are real deal  if u
> have money go listen to them  diffrent leage  themselves.
> And nobody listen to DXD u better do that with good dac that sound better than DSD128  only 256 can beat it.


 
  
 I have heard the Esoteric Grandioso D1, and I currently own the Holo Spring Level 3 (only had it for a few days, so it's still settling in).
 I heard both using my sr-009 connect to 727A (Feedback mod).
 The Grandioso D1 I heard was part of a huge chain of other really expensive stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 e.g. power regenerator, 5K power cables, and some really! fancy interconnects and USB cables.
 It also had a Woo audio tube amp as a pre-amp between the 727A and the Grandioso D1.

 I have none of the fancy stuff in my own chain....
  
 Although I would agree that listening to it was an eye opening experience 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (The only time I was nearly in tears listening to music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 However, it might not be considered "better" by everyone's standards...
  
 The Grandioso D1 was liquid smooth, I could not fault the sound balance in anyway....everything sounded unrealistically good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Unfortunately, this is also the reason why it might not sit well with everyone, it was unrealistic....
  
 The thing that keeps being mentioned by everyone about the Holo is how realistic it sounds.
 Of course, depending on recording this might actually work against it.
 The texture of the recording is very apparent....i.e. if the recording was done in different rooms or was done using different mics before being mixed together, you will be able to tell the difference between them. In some bad cases there will even be a disjoint in the sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 My personal preference is for things to sound as close to the recording as possible, even if most of the time things sound bad.....


----------



## lukeap69

On another thread, @Barra provided some interesting comparison with the Yggy

http://www.head-fi.org/t/804153/life-after-yggdrasil/825#post_12958039


----------



## oneguy

So is the general consensus that I2S is the preferred option on the Spring? Is this because of the way the Spring does it I2S vs USB input implementation? Has anyone done a comparison between the two previously mentioned inputs?

Sorry for all the questions. I see a lot of talk of people pairing the Level 3 with the SU1. I am curious if a good USB input will avoid the need to buy another add-on for the Spring Level 3.


----------



## rkyoto

oneguy said:


> So is the general consensus that I2S is the preferred option on the Spring? Is this because of the way the Spring does it I2S vs USB input implementation? Has anyone done a comparison between the two previously mentioned inputs?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions. I see a lot of talk of people pairing the Level 3 with the SU1. I am curious if a good USB input will avoid the need to buy another add-on for the Spring Level 3.


 

 ​The built-in USB module of spring is XMOS based, fully isolated and that's it. No femto clocks and other fancy stuff. It's good enough in my opinion. Better than its SPDIF inputs.
  
 The creator of the spring DAC does have another usb noise filter product like schiit wyrd. I don't know if it is sold in US.


----------



## oneguy

rkyoto said:


> ​The built-in USB module of spring is XMOS based, fully isolated and that's it. No femto clocks and other fancy stuff. It's good enough in my opinion. Better than its SPDIF inputs.
> 
> The creator of the spring DAC does have another usb noise filter product like schiit wyrd. I don't know if it is sold in US.


 

 I have a USB noise filter product. I am just wondering if that being used with USB input is on the same playing field as the I2S input or if one is on a different level from the other.


----------



## ZGojira

rkyoto said:


> ​The built-in USB module of spring is XMOS based, fully isolated and that's it. No femto clocks and other fancy stuff. It's good enough in my opinion. Better than its SPDIF inputs.
> 
> The creator of the spring DAC does have another usb noise filter product like schiit wyrd. I don't know if it is sold in US.


 
  
 These? https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-titanis-active-usb-processor/
  
 I got two of the 800mA version along with my spring.
  
 First of all, I should mention that I am skeptical of these devices (and digital cables in general)....
  
 I did a quick test and could not hear any difference on the spring...this could change when I spend more time with it.....
  
 However, I tried it with an XDuoo XD-05 and the was a noticeable difference in sound.
 Enough of a difference that I think should be measurable, which is what I did (nothing fancy, just on board line-in).
  
 And indeed, there was a difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 THD has increased ten-fold 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I tried it both directly from computer port and with extension cable, the results were the same....
  
 I even tried chaining them to see if that made a difference, and THD increased by 100 times....(which makes sense, 10 x 10 = 100)
  
 It would be great if anyone else can also do some quick measurements to confirm that I'm not doing something wrong....


----------



## REXNFX

tkcha said:


> Hi   All.   I'm 50 years old I'been audiophile 35 years now my exprience mostly speaker base system until 2012 but because under circumstance can't have a dedicated listening room so started Headphone journey.
> My systems are PC with JRIVER 20 bitstreaming or DSD256 upsampling. Blue Circle Audio FX2 XOe power conditioner,Inderstrial Version Intona,Holo Kitsune Edition Spring 3 DAC, Woo audio 6SE,
> Macorni U52 Rectify tube,6FD7 fat bottle driv tube, Modded HE6 Audio sensibility OCC Copper cable, Hifiman HEK, AKG 551. All my IC, PC are Audio Sensibility statement OCC cables, USB cables are Supra.
> Now I have 4 Systems.   A: 2 channell speaker system: Vintage AR horn tweeter based Large Moniter,DIY Full range 16'.18'.50' size,morel cat308 tweeter,Focal 4 inch mid, 2 Focal 8 inch woopers with HMDF cabinet.
> ...


 
 Do you have an analog source that you can compare this DAC to? TIA!


----------



## tkcha

Hi  REXNFX   No  I don't  have any turntable set up but Megnum Dynlab FM tuner Having over 15 years.   but  I have lot of vinyl experience
 I Think Holo Spring DAC Can compete with VPI classic Signature Or Lower even older HRX.     Spring Is Very Analog Sounding DAC specially
 DSD.    One Of Best DSD Sounding DAC ON the market Right Now.


----------



## johnjen

So the thought struck me to ask…
  
 Is there a PCM only version being considered?
 I have no need for DSD, nor am I interested in pursuing that file format, so a PCM only version would be of interest to me and I would assume others as well.
  
 Just curious…
  
 JJ


----------



## rkyoto

johnjen said:


> So the thought struck me to ask…
> 
> Is there a PCM only version being considered?
> I have no need for DSD, nor am I interested in pursuing that file format, so a PCM only version would be of interest to me and I would assume others as well.
> ...




I guess no.

The reason why it supports DSD is that the module can operate at a very high speed similar to modern dacs so removing DSD support would just make very little hardware difference.


----------



## johnjen

I vaguely remember reading that the DSD circuitry uses a different portion of the hardware.
 I don't know if the DSD conversion circuitry is on a separate board or not or if it would be possible to just eliminate this portion of the design.
  
 But DSD isn't a viable source of music for me, and I would suspect most other users as well.
 As such by introducing a non DSD DAC would potentially lower the cost and simplify the operation of this technology.
  
 Just curious.
  
 JJ


----------



## bimmer100

johnjen said:


> So the thought struck me to ask…
> 
> Is there a PCM only version being considered?
> I have no need for DSD, nor am I interested in pursuing that file format, so a PCM only version would be of interest to me and I would assume others as well.
> ...


 
  
 Nope.
  
 Not even a possibility. This was designed on a module with top and bottom of the module chock full of resistors. The DSD has two dedicated resistor networks and PCM has two dedicated resistor networks. Fully balanced of course and discretely dedicated to either DSD or PCM... the second network is for linear compensation, which is not something you'll find on other dacs. This is the feature that makes this dac quite unique. So the intent or idea of making a new module w/o DSD is not going to be a future option or plan. The price point is very low point and maybe you'd be happy with the Level1 or Level2 dac if the price was considered too high. They also perform quite well compared to anything in it's price range. 
  
 DSD has never interested me in the slightest until i've heard it on this dac. Thats my two cents on the subject. Otherwise it wouldn't save a whole lot on cost of the Level3 dac in particular. About half the cost of the dac is spent on the power supply implementation, and it's apparent when comparing between the different models. Each Level of dac was considered to allow for a perfect option according to budget. NONE of these dacs perform poorly and not likely to lack in any particular category. Simply ignoring it has the ability for DSD is an easier approach, as this is a feature that is hit or miss with users. And as you know, DSD is commonly found on most dacs, and from a sales standpoint, not having DSD would deter a percentage of potential buyers. Especially when it's been implemented so well.


----------



## johnjen

I understand.
 Thanks for that explanation.
  
 JJ


----------



## phonyx

bimmer100 said:
			
		

> .
> 
> ... the second network is for linear compensation, which is not something you'll find on other dacs. This is the feature that makes this dac quite unique.




Unless I am mistaken, Metrum do linear compensation (they call it forward correction to compensate for the effect switching noise has on linearity) via FPGA on Pavane and Musette. 

They've both been out a while, so unless both companies mean different things with those words, I wouldn't say Holo was first or unique in regards to linear compensation.


----------



## mock-up

Holo Spring + Berkeley USB vs Holo Spring USB vs Audio Note DAC 3 + Berkeley USB
 http://dastereo.ru/t/holo-audio-spring-dac-r2r-dsd512/2075/1341?u=dmitre


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Holo Spring + Berkeley USB was just perfect


----------



## WNBC

Very soon to pull the trigger on the Holo Spring Level 3 DAC.  Like many others I was set on the Yiggy, but then there was just enough buzz to get me interested about the Spring.  I've owned some nice DACs (Ciunas, Mojo, W4S DAC-2, Anedio D2, iFi iDSD Micro) but nothing this expensive.  Hoping it will be my only new DAC for the next 3+ years .
  
 Took a break from headphone audio and now slowly rebuilding.  Early on I'll be using the Elear with the Liquid Carbon 2.  Really enjoyed the MZ2, HD800S and GH-1 combo when I had them so I'll probably be re-adding them to the arsenal.  At the time I was only using the Mojo as a DAC so I'm curious to hear how much better a higher end DAC will do with them.  
  
 Thanks to Tim with the fast communication.  Soon the wait.


----------



## Peaceofmind

Just ordered my Holo Spring DAC level 3 a few days ago. Shipping date was estimated late Nov., suspect orders for the DAC are starting to pick up.


----------



## Joeybgood

wnbc said:


> Very soon to pull the trigger on the Holo Spring Level 3 DAC.  Like many others I was set on the Yiggy, but then there was just enough buzz to get me interested about the Spring.  I've owned some nice DACs (Ciunas, Mojo, W4S DAC-2, Anedio D2, iFi iDSD Micro) but nothing this expensive.  Hoping it will be my only new DAC for the next 3+ years .
> 
> Took a break from headphone audio and now slowly rebuilding.  Early on I'll be using the Elear with the Liquid Carbon 2.  Really enjoyed the MZ2, HD800S and GH-1 combo when I had them so I'll probably be re-adding them to the arsenal.  At the time I was only using the Mojo as a DAC so I'm curious to hear how much better a higher end DAC will do with them.
> 
> Thanks to Tim with the fast communication.  Soon the wait.


 
 Tim's incredible to work with. Honest, helpful and great with comms.


----------



## MLGrado

Any real word on how this DAC is converting DSD?
  
 R2R resistor network is almost always presented as a PCM only multibit solution, not suitable for true DSD conversion.  
  
  
  
  BUT.....what actual Native DSD DAC's, such as the Burr Brown chip used by iFi and others, do isn't as different from what a ladder R2R DAC does as you might think.  
  
  
 They use a resistor network (bit-switches).  These switches are grouped together to create various voltage values.  These non-equal groupings of resistors are therefore the TAPS in the analog FIR filter that converts the DSD signal.  
  
  
 But, DSD is 1-bit... PCM is multibit... how would you feed a 1-bit DSD signal to multiple resistors??  Quite simply....
  
  
  
 The taps are fed by using a DELAY LINE on the 1 bit DSD signal, in the case of the Burr Brown, the single DSD stream is 'stacked' 8 times, each stream delayed from its adjacent streams by a single pulse. 
  
 There could be some kind of dynamic element matching as well, meaning that the 8 streams are randomly sent to the TAPS to account for any nonlinearities.  
  
  
  
  
  
 So, it is VERY possible that an R2R resistor network, SPECIFICALLY and ONLY for DSD (PCM would not work anyone) could be used for native DSD conversion.  At least as native as any of the other products on the market that advertise being native DSD. 
  
  
  
 So then, to have an R2R DAC that can convert both PCM and DSD natively, would require unique R2R DACs for each format.  
  
  
 Which sounds a lot like the advertised characteristics of this DAC.  I am very, very interesting in finding out more about what goes on under the hood...


----------



## Peaceofmind

Why was bimmer 100 post about the difference between the Spring DAC's true linear compensation and Metrum's forward correction deleted? It was a very informative read and very respectful toward Metrum Acoustics.


----------



## yage

peaceofmind said:


> Why was bimmer 100 post about the difference between the Spring DAC's true linear compensation and Metrum's forward correction deleted? It was a very informative read and very respectful toward Metrum Acoustics.


 
  
 Dunno - but I saved the thread update email with the reply so i could read it again.


----------



## bimmer100

no direct comparisons to other gear is allowed for MOT on Headfi. So my comment was deleted. I didn't mean to be disrespectful but that wasn't the point. It wasn't appropriate for the rules of the forums. So leave it at that.


----------



## Nada

> ....it is VERY possible that an R2R resistor network, SPECIFICALLY and ONLY for DSD .... could be used for native DSD conversion....


 
  
  PCM can decode with a R2R resistor ladder. Its easy to see why its called a ladder with its cascading design:
  

  
 I think it may be misleading to claim DSD is using a R2R network if its just using a BurrBrown resistor based multi tap FIR with no ladder in sight?


----------



## phonyx

peaceofmind said:


> Why was bimmer 100 post about the difference between the Spring DAC's true linear compensation and Metrum's forward correction deleted? It was a very informative read and very respectful toward Metrum Acoustics.







yage said:


> Dunno - but I saved the thread update email with the reply so i could read it again.







bimmer100 said:


> no direct comparisons to other gear is allowed for MOT on Headfi. So my comment was deleted. I didn't mean to be disrespectful but that wasn't the point. It wasn't appropriate for the rules of the forums. So leave it at that.




Dammit. I posted the original question as I 'thought' they were the same thing and I'd checked back every couple days and now I've missed it


----------



## Peaceofmind

What Metrum Acoustics is doing is not compensation. Other DAC manufactures who use expensive laser trimming to get precise resistance valves is compensation. Holo Spring DACs has found a way to compensate by using a less expensive method, a secondary R2R ladder does the compensation.


----------



## Luckbad




----------



## TimeLord

luckbad said:


>




Nice setup. Definitely requires a guard dog.


----------



## Joeybgood

timelord said:


> Nice setup. Definitely requires a guard dog.


 
 Very cool. I have those exact same 2 DACs myself!!!


----------



## Jimi Zine

Do you ship th eHolo Audio Spring DAC to the UK or do you have a dealer/distributer here?


----------



## kazcou

jimi zine said:


> Do you ship th eHolo Audio Spring DAC to the UK or do you have a dealer/distributer here?


 
 No official dealer/seller in EU, but you can buy one from a good taobao agent for around 1550$ for a L1 and 1750$ for a L2, that price is including paypal fee and shipping cost.


----------



## kazcou

Or you can have a better deal with Shenzenaudio : 1500$ for a L1 and 1653$ for a L2


----------



## lukeap69

I bought mine from Wildism HK. He also has good price and very prompt in communicating.


----------



## jsiegel14072

luckbad said:


>


 
 is this an update?


----------



## ZGojira

kazcou said:


> Or you can have a better deal with Shenzenaudio : 1500$ for a L1 and 1653$ for a L2


 

 I noticed that you have a Soekris DAM1021 under your list of DACs...
 How does it compare to the spring?


----------



## R1200CL

bimmer100:

How will MQA be implemented ? Can it be done by firmware update ?

Will there be a silver/alu version ?

Can I feed the Spring with my own DC, and what is the voltage and minimum current draw ?
(I like to use the Uptone Audio LPS-1)

When will you open your website for international orders ?
or
Can I order L3 version direct from China ?


----------



## R1200CL

This is the first time ever I heard that MQA is a hardware solution. Other DAC manufacturers are able to this in SW, and if MQA the company allowed it, SW player would have MQA. Maybe you need to add a chip in order to decode the MQA signal and and the corrections needed for you DAC chip, as you are not able to modify the DAC firmware or add necessary processing needed ?
(Well the blue MQA authentic light is of cause HW) 

I understand your answer that present Spring DAC will not be offered with a MQA upgrade. Which was important for me to know. Not SW or HW. A MQA implementation if happens will only be available in new or future products. 

About power, I was hoping for a conformation as the internal DC regulator has a specification between 5 and 12 volt or what ever. And maybe if not amps, at least how many watt the unit consumes. I'm sure you can tell us. But it you do not want to, just say so. That's ok too.


----------



## bimmer100

Well the transformer is 100vac or approx 100watts. But the DAC actually only consumes approx. 40watts. 

But bypassing the spring's psu/transformer is not recommended. Half the value and time of the DAC has been in the power implementation. The transformer is not a cheap toroid. It's an Otype, which shares the benefits of R core and toroid with no downsides. It's ideal for audio especially how its been used for the spring DAC. 
The smaller transformer is simply for standby and NOT in the audio path. Outputs are disabled and only power saving mode is on with that little transformer. It's a class A device so the components can be kept warm without consuming power from the massive 100vac transformer.


----------



## bimmer100

http://hifipig.com/mqa-integration-made-simple-ces-2016/

Mqa as far as I understand is a decoder ic that is before say... the xmos ic. It deals with copyright infringement I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

But our spring DAC is designed in a way that would allow for an upgrade module to be replaced. USB module is removeable so technically speaking.... it's possible. But "if" we go this route it won't be a free upgrade but more of an optional thing that can be installed. 

The photo is the mqa module example.

We are looking further into mqa and maybe will support it in the future as we understand the need for steaming audio.


----------



## R1200CL

Thanks. Very good clarification. Looking forward to Black Friday 

Then I will not give up the hope for a possible future MQA upgrade. And I did not expect it to be free, but hopefully it can be done in the field. We are most likely 8 to 12 months away from Tidal and others can offer MQA streaming. 
(This is how I understand Sterophiles interview with Bob last month)

There is no DRM or copyright in MQA.
CA has a thread where Bob explain and answer question about MQA.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/694-comprehensive-q-mqa-s-bob-stuart/comments11.html#comments


----------



## Bones13

As I understand it currently, MQA involves the different compression alogorithm to enable lossless hires streaming, and can use what I will loosely term "filter", which is specific to the decoding hardware, and provided by the decoding hardware. I'm not sure of how much of that is done by the software player, or server, and how much has to be done by the DAC.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Any comparisons with the Ref 7.1/Master 7/NOS 7?


----------



## phonyx

Would be good to see more comparisons. 

I still think it needs comparison to the Pavane since everyone says NOS mode is the only mode that sounds decent. Other NOS DAC's should be directly compared if someone has the means and opportunity.


----------



## ZGojira

phonyx said:


> Would be good to see more comparisons.
> 
> I still think it needs comparison to the Pavane since everyone says NOS mode is the only mode that sounds decent. Other NOS DAC's should be directly compared if someone has the means and opportunity.


 
  
 This is my only NOS and R2R DAC....and I think NOS mode is the best.
 Mainly because it's the mode that sounds the most "realistic", and where the textures sound the most organic.
  
 I also find that OS-PCM sounds a lot similar to the typical SD-OS DAC, with it's 'artificial' sharpened sound. (My point of reference being a Grace m920)
  
 After getting use to the Spring, the Grace sounds too sharp (not to be mistaken for detail), I think it's similar to looking at an image after a sharpen filter has been applied.
  
 *Most listening was done on HD800 and SR-009(727A/feedback mod)


----------



## Dithyrambes

Listened to this DAC at New York Audio Show at the HeadAMp Booth. Must say I was floored. Great dac, and made me question wheter to get this or the value proposition of the Schiit Gungnir >< HELP!


----------



## gr8soundz

dithyrambes said:


> Listened to this DAC at New York Audio Show at the HeadAMp Booth. Must say I was floored. Great dac, and made me question wheter to get this or the value proposition of the Schiit Gungnir >< HELP!


 
  
 Good question. Better yet, is the Modi Multibit even worth getting in comparison to the Holo or am I better off saving that $250 towards the Holo? Has anyone heard both and can say how close (percentage wise) the Mimby might be to the Holo?


----------



## Dithyrambes

gr8soundz said:


> Good question. Better yet, is the Modi Multibit even worth getting in comparison to the Holo or am I better off saving that $250 towards the Holo? Has anyone heard both and can say how close (percentage wise) the Mimby might be to the Holo?


i Haven't heard the mimby...but merrick who's heard both said it is close to a geek out v2+ infinity..which i owned before. For me the holo sounded much better but ymmv as always


----------



## lukeap69

I suggest we wait for @Torq review to be published. He had compared the Holo Spring to Yggy and Pavane. It is a very good review without the flowery nonsense wordings...


----------



## phonyx

lukeap69 said:


> I suggest we wait for @Torq review to be published. He had compared the Holo Spring to Yggy and Pavane. It is a very good review without the flowery nonsense wordings...


 
  
 That sounds good. 
  
 However I have bailed on this DAC. I have purchased a Chord Hugo TT, it's the best DAC I've ever heard by a good margin.


----------



## lukeap69

phonyx said:


> That sounds good.
> 
> However I have bailed on this DAC. I have purchased a Chord Hugo TT, it's the best DAC I've ever heard by a good margin.




Nice. Enjoy the TT. I have heard many good things about this DAC.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Can anyone comment on the performance delta between Level 1 and Level 2?


----------



## REXNFX

phonyx said:


> That sounds good.
> 
> However I have bailed on this DAC. I have purchased a Chord Hugo TT, it's the best DAC I've ever heard by a good margin.


 
 Interesting, I found the TT on the forward/fatiguing side, does it take along time to burn in?


----------



## R1200CL

dithyrambes said:


> Listened to this DAC at New York Audio Show at the HeadAMp Booth. Must say I was floored. Great dac, and made me question wheter to get this or the value proposition of the Schiit Gungnir >< HELP!




Just remember Schiit has stated officially that they will not support MQA. And MQA is going to happen. If you not a Tidal hifi subscriper, I suppose it doesn't matter to you anyway.

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/05/schiitting-on-mqa/


----------



## Igor-klg

Hi!
 Really world first? But Lavry? Lavry Gold?
  
 And Russian designers make it to much time ago: http://forum.vegalab.ru/showthread.php?t=67739


----------



## Bones13

I have always considered the DACs, and the different kinds of music servers were best done with a modular type of construction. Digital music technology continues to progress/change rapidly. Both my Bryston BDA-3 and upcoming Spring R2R level 3 DAC were seen, via internal pics, to have separate boards for PSU, USB receiver, and DAC sections. While one, or both, might have to be shipped off for the upgrade, it should still be a possibility.


----------



## Luckbad

I'm starting to move Heaven & Earth to get myself a Spring DAC. The Level 3 is what I have for demo here and it's astonishingly good in NOS mode.
  
 Has anyone heard both the Level 3 and Level 2 versions? I'm really curious what I'd be missing if I were to go toward the less expensive option.


----------



## Clemmaster

You'd be missing the peace of mind of knowing you've got the best version


----------



## mscott58

Put one on order. The reviews (from people I trust) have just been too good, and the Spring has all the things I want in a DAC (R2R, PCM and DSD, lots of input options - including USB and I2S). Coming mid-December and can't wait to connect it up with Goldie! (my Cavalli LAu) Cheers


----------



## Tboooe

mscott58 said:


> Put one on order. The reviews (from people I trust) have just been too good, and the Spring has all the things I want in a DAC (R2R, PCM and DSD, lots of input options - including USB and I2S). Coming mid-December and can't wait to connect it up with Goldie! (my Cavalli LAu) Cheers


 
 I am in the same boat.  I was leaning towards Schiit because I wanted to try R2R and have more input options than my DAC has but I use HQPlayer to output everything in DSD256.  The Spring seems to tick all the boxes for me.  I am going to try and place an order prior to end of the year to take advantage of the lower price.


----------



## Luckbad

The plan: Review the demo unit of the Holo Spring Kitsune Tuned Edition. Send it to the next guy. Move on.

The reality: Buy one because I can't go back. The wait for my personal unit begins.


----------



## Tboooe

luckbad said:


> The plan: Review the demo unit of the Holo Spring Kitsune Tuned Edition. Send it to the next guy. Move on.
> 
> The reality: Buy one because I can't go back. The wait for my personal unit begins.




Hey i see you are in Irvine. My neck of the woods. Congrats! I am scrounging around trying to scrap together enough funds to buy the Spring too. It nay be a meager Xmas for the kids!


----------



## Superdad

I've decided just this weekend to Spring for one! Will be phoning Tim in the morning. 

Although I'm clear on the built in filters not being much to write home about, I am puzzled by folks who report preferring sending it straight Redbook in NOS mode. Love my NOS PCM1704, but only when using HQ Player or Audirvana+ to send it @ 384KHz. Otherwise the unavoidable aliasing artifacts really color things.
Would be interested in hearing from Spring owners about this.


----------



## Tboooe

superdad said:


> I've decided just this weekend to Spring for one! Will be phoning Tim in the morning.
> 
> Although I'm clear on the built in filters not being much to write home about, I am puzzled by folks who report preferring sending it straight Redbook in NOS mode. Love my NOS PCM1704, but only when using HQ Player or Audirvana+ to send it @ 384KHz. Otherwise the unavoidable aliasing artifacts really color things.
> Would be interested in hearing from Spring owners about this.




+1...i was thinking the same thing. I intend to use HQP in much the same way.


----------



## Luckbad

superdad said:


> I've decided just this weekend to Spring for one! Will be phoning Tim in the morning.
> 
> Although I'm clear on the built in filters not being much to write home about, I am puzzled by folks who report preferring sending it straight Redbook in NOS mode. Love my NOS PCM1704, but only when using HQ Player or Audirvana+ to send it @ 384KHz. Otherwise the unavoidable aliasing artifacts really color things.
> Would be interested in hearing from Spring owners about this.



Haven't really bothered to upsample. Unfortunately, I have to box the demo unit up and send it on tonight so it'll be tough to get a feel for the differences.


----------



## DecentLevi

I'm quite interested in this DAC - it was recommended to me just when I was asking around if there's any multibit DAC's that do DSD. I've heard it's cheaper and better sounding than the Yggy - not to mention not as enormous! Myself and others will have the chance to demo a Holo Audio Spring that will be on display all day at the local meet-up I've put together in San Jose (Silicon Valley, CA), along with much other astounding gear. Maybe some of you would like to come up to this free meet to try it out as well, the last Saturday of this month:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/824498/finally-south-bay-area-head-fi-meet-late-2016-alum-rock-library-11-26-16-save-the-date


----------



## Energy

http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac-hi-end-dsd-dac-220v-only.html
  
 Shenzhenaudio only carries 220V. Anyone know how to obtain a 110V unit or if it's easy to modify a 220V to 110V?
  
 I've noticed there is a voltage adjuster within the Kitsune Level 3 version. Adjusting that alongside fuse swapout should be simple but It doesn't seem that's adjuster is seen on the Level 1 or 2.
  
 Right now ShenzhenAudio is having a deal and I'd hate to miss it thus my reason for pushing this question out as early as I can.


----------



## Cardiiiii

Is Shenzhen Audio a reliable source? Anyone else ordered from there?


----------



## despinos

Hello,
 I ordered one from shengzhen audio (from their website)  on 11/11 to be shipped to Spain. I never bought from them before, but their price is OK and includes shipping. Apparently they had then the Lv1 in stock (no wait til december.)
  
  
 I received a shipping notification on the 14th (yesterday, seems rather like a months has passed  with a DHL tracking number. The tracking number is not working yet. No idea what will happen with customs duties.
  
 I will update this info for those interested in buying from them.


----------



## lukeap69

I have purchased few items from them before and all have worked out right. No problemo.

@despinos

I would expect some delays for the shipment due to the fact that couriers will be so busy with many items shipped due to Singles Day 11.11. and sometimes DHL shipments are inspected for few days which is one of the hands of the Shippers. Just giving you a heads up so you won't be impatient in waiting.


----------



## despinos

lukeap69 said:


> I have purchased few items from them before and all have worked out right. No problemo.
> 
> @despinos
> 
> I would expect some delays for the shipment due to the fact that couriers will be so busy with many items shipped due to Singles Day 11.11. and sometimes DHL shipments are inspected for few days which is one of the hands of the Shippers. Just giving you a heads up so you won't be impatient in waiting.





Thanks Arnold, anyway I expect a faster shipping compared to Christmas or black Friday shopping.

With everybody ordering level 3s, I guess my humble luv. 1 will eventually become a sought after rarity of even greater value. 

I wonder if we will see any mods (tubed output replacing opamp? in a year or so...


----------



## DecentLevi

Apologies in advance if I'm not the first one to post this Holo Spring review link here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/holo-audio-spring-dac-level-3-kitsune-tuned-edition/reviews/17337


----------



## lukeap69

Holo Spring DAC is indeed very impressive!


----------



## kazcou

A 5% off on Aliexpress, it is a 220V :
 Holo Audio Spring L1 at $1,377.48 and L2 at $1,570.33


----------



## Energy

kazcou said:


> A 5% off on Aliexpress, it is a 220V :
> Holo Audio Spring L1 at $1,377.48 and L2 at $1,570.33


 
  
 They're also having an additional store -$15.00 promotional coupon on there as well. I was lucky to come early for the -$50.00 promotional coupon. Not sure if that's still available, but wouldn't hurt to check for those who want one at a very good price.
  
 Even though it's a 220V unit, I've chat with the seller and he/she says a 110V AC is possible but will have a week or two delay.


----------



## rigo

So that L2 deal is about 800 less than the L3. Tempting.


----------



## jerick70

rigo said:


> So that L2 deal is about 800 less than the L3. Tempting.


 

 Agreed.  That is an excellent price.
  
 Does anyone know the sound differences between the L2 and L3?


----------



## Torq

I've not checked out these particular suppliers from China, but I'd be rather concerned about warranty issues.  I'm assuming, if there _is_ a warranty (meaning it's not just offered, but is actually *honored*) it is going to be different (shorter and/or less inclusive) than that from the official US distributor/dealer.
  
 It's gotten to the point for me that I just won't order bigger-ticket stuff from resellers in China directly as the last time I had an issue with one the offered resolution wasn't "Return it for a Refund/Replacement", but instead was "Keep it and we'll give you a discount!" - which was wholly useless as the item in question was dead-on-arrival!  Wasn't audio related, but still was a pain to resolve.
  
 Also, bear in mind that if the vendor doesn't cover the customs duties you may well get stuck with that - depending on how the particular customs agent is feeling that day.  Typically that'll show up as a bill from the shipper, though I don't know what the charge would be.  
  
 ...
  
 I've also had a couple of people ping me both here, and in the real world, about their supposed "Level 3" units.  I say "supposed" as they didn't come from "Kitsune HiFi" (which is also "Holo Audio USA").  As far as I know the *only* way to get the "Level 3" unit is via Kitsune HiFi, so I'm not sure what these other people have actually received.  That could be anything from being sold one thing and sent another down to them just saying they have a "Level 3" without really knowing what that is.
  
 Anyway, despite my personal impatience for getting my hands on the thing, I stopped short of risking an order outside official channels.


----------



## Hi-Phi

torq said:


> I've not checked out these particular suppliers from China, but I'd be rather concerned about warranty issues.  I'm assuming, if there _is_ a warranty (meaning it's not just offered, but is actually *honored*) it is going to be different (shorter and/or less inclusive) than that from the official US distributor/dealer.
> 
> It's gotten to the point for me that I just won't order bigger-ticket stuff from resellers in China directly as the last time I had an issue with one the offered resolution wasn't "Return it for a Refund/Replacement", but instead was "Keep it and we'll give you a discount!" - which was wholly useless as the item in question was dead-on-arrival!  Wasn't audio related, but still was a pain to resolve.
> 
> ...


 
 Torq is right. I certainly wouldn't trust buying from anyone other than kitsune. They are very transparent and I'd rather pay the retail to get it from them and have the peace of mind -- which is what I ended up doing.


----------



## lukeap69

There is always risk when ordering abroad and in my case both my issues have been from units ordered from the US and all my units ordered from China/HK have all been great (Audio-gd, Shenzenaudio, Wildism, etc.) So far, they have been all reliable. although I haven't really run into any major issues. If you are in the US, it may be better to order from Kitsune though.


----------



## Bones13

I ordered mine from Kitsune, I think it will ship later this month (November)


----------



## Superdad

I ordered my Level 3 with Tim @ Kitsune.  Hoping to get it before the end-of-year holidays.  I'm quite excited about it.


----------



## audiobill

superdad said:


> I ordered my Level 3 with Tim @ Kitsune.  Hoping to get it before the end-of-year holidays.  I'm quite excited about it.


 
 That's great to hear, I look forward to learning your thoughts on its performance. Happy holidays!


----------



## rafabro

decentlevi said:


> Apologies in advance if I'm not the first one to post this Holo Spring review link here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/holo-audio-spring-dac-level-3-kitsune-tuned-edition/reviews/17337


 
 Have you ever chance to hear Gustard DAC X20/A20H and compare to Holo?


----------



## DecentLevi

Nope, I have the Gustard X12 which I'm keeping solely for it's DSD prowess - while I haven't heard the X20 I would venture to say it's unlikely that it can sound nearly as good as the likes of the Holo Spring, given the major improvement I have heard every time over many comparisons between Delta Sigma and R2R DACs


----------



## rafabro

But X20 can compete with Auralic Vega. This mean something.
 Specialy X20+SU-1
  
 Thats why I am interest comparison with Spring. If is much better I could consider as future upgrade.


----------



## WNBC

Another guy here looking forward to the Spring DAC in a couple weeks.  I needed an interim DAC and I'm using the Gungnir MB.  Really enjoying the Gumby, but I am fully prepared for it to be displaced by the Spring.  Will be fun to do a comparison between the two, but if the Spring is as good as everyone is saying I might not get to it for a while.


----------



## Torq

rafabro said:


> Have you ever chance to hear Gustard DAC X20/A20H and compare to Holo?


 
  
 While the question wasn't directed at me, I have heard both the Gustard X20 and the Holo.  Now, admittedly, I didn't have them back-to-back, but I've listened to the X20 in A/B scenarios with other DACs that I have since compared directly to the Holo and since the Holo beat most of those, and they beat the X20, it's not much of a stretch to say that I'd much prefer the Holo Audio unit over the Gustard.
  


rafabro said:


> But X20 can compete with Auralic Vega. This mean something.
> Specialy X20+SU-1
> 
> Thats why I am interest comparison with Spring. If is much better I could consider as future upgrade.


 
  
 This is a combination I *have* tired back-to-back, and I disagree that the X20 competes with the Vega, sonically at least - even given the big price disparity.  In fact, I'd go further, and say there's nothing about the X20 that would compel me to spend even the $850 it costs on it, given the other available options.


----------



## Torq

Looks like Kitsune HiFi has a black-Friday sale on the Spring DAC - Level 1 ...
  
$1400 including US shipping ... that's better than the grey-market/Chinese vendors and still has the proper warranty ...


----------



## rajacat

How much difference in SQ between the Level 1 and Level 3?
 I'm starting to believe
  that there some who truly dislike all sigma delta dacs no matter how well they're implemented. 
 I'd like to hear a modded, with upgraded clock etc.,GUSTARD DAC-X20Pro, the one with the new ES9028 chips. The price difference is substantial.


----------



## jerick70

rajacat said:


> How much difference in SQ between the Level 1 and Level 3?
> I starting to believe that there some who truly dislike all sigma delta dacs no matter how well they're implemented.


 
  
 I've been trying to figure this out myself.  There isn't much info on the web about comparisons between the three levels of the DAC.  It would be very helpful to make a proper decision on which is going to work for you.


----------



## Torq

rajacat said:


> How much difference in SQ between the Level 1 and Level 3?
> I'm starting to believe
> that there some who truly dislike all sigma delta dacs no matter how well they're implemented.
> I'd like to hear a modded, with upgraded clock etc.,GUSTARD DAC-X20Pro, the one with the new ES9028 chips. The price difference is substantial.


 

 I have no idea ... I've only ever heard the Level 3.
  
 Re: R2R/Multi-bit (etc.) vs. D/S ... can't speak for others, but I've heard D/S DACs that are very good indeed.  I dislike some, and others I like.  I just don't necessarily like them more than some of the other available options.  But, in general, where a generally run-of-the-mill "reference/data-sheet" design philosophy has been applied, I find a lot of D/S DACS, and the ESS 9XXX series in particular, to have an "exaggerated" presentation of detail (and sometimes it's not even that, it's just unpleasantly shrill/bright).  And I'd put the X20 in the "exaggerated detail" camp.  Way too prickly for me.
  
 Which X20 mods are you talking about?  Not the nonsense with the cardboard under the transformers and random cotton-wrapped wire and "stickers" all over it?


----------



## rajacat

torq said:


> I have no idea ... I've only ever heard the Level 3.
> 
> Re: R2R/Multi-bit (etc.) vs. D/S ... can't speak for others, but I've heard D/S DACs that are very good indeed.  I dislike some, and others I like.  I just don't necessarily like them more than some of the other available options.  But, in general, where a generally run-of-the-mill "reference/data-sheet" design philosophy has been applied, I find a lot of D/S DACS, and the ESS 9XXX series in particular, to have an "exaggerated" presentation of detail (and sometimes it's not even that, it's just unpleasantly shrill/bright).  And I'd put the X20 in the "exaggerated detail" camp.  Way too prickly for me.
> 
> Which X20 mods are you talking about?  Not the nonsense with the cardboard under the transformers and random cotton-wrapped wire and "stickers" all over it?


 
 The X20 mods have gone a lot farther than the cardboard under the trannys. There are several long threads detailing the clock and other mods. Look them up if you're interested. Sometimes you have to match the dac to your system. If you have a bright rig, a less detailed dac could be more appropriate.


----------



## Torq

rajacat said:


> The X20 mods have gone a lot farther than the cardboard under the trannys. There are several long threads detailing the clock and other mods. Look them up if you're interested. Sometimes you have to match the dac to your system. If you have a bright rig, a less detailed dac could be more appropriate.


 

 Shame it needs them ... given the "wonder" that the ESS chips are supposed to be, especially with regards to clocks and jitter ...
  
 And it's not that I find the X20 "too" detailed, it's that the detail is presents isn't "real" ... it's exaggerated ... it's bright rather than actually offering any additional detail.  Things that are relatively easily discerned on other DACs are not audible on the X20, yet the thing still sounds like there's more detail than there really is.  Cymbals, brushes on percussive instruments, reverberation in close-mic'ed strings ... all just sound artificial on the X20.
  
 My rig isn't bright, it's pretty neutral.
  
 The X20 is just too sharp and edgy, without offering the ACTUAL detail or resolution of much cheaper units.
  
 And the big problem is people conflating brightness with detail.  The X20 is brighter than it is detailed, so much so it seems more detailed than it really is.  Yggdrasil, Holo, hell even Modi MB are more detailed and not bright.
  
 But then you'd have to be able to hear the differences and make the ACTUAL comparisons to know that.


----------



## rajacat

On well, everybody has an opinion. Check out Quadman's posts.


----------



## Torq

rajacat said:


> On well, everybody has an opinion. Check out Quadman's posts.


 

 If they're X20 related, there's no point.
  
 I've said this numerous times before, and I'll say it again ...
  
_If the X20 is such a wonderful DAC, why is it that *every single time* (and this is another case in point) someone brings it up, it's ALWAYS modded?_
  
 Regardless, if the X20 gives you a sound you love, why not just stick with it?  I'm not the one hemming over finding something better than the X20 ... as every DAC I own already meets that criteria.  Personally I found the X20 to be over-sharpened, fatiguing and sterile.  I think it's an averagely-performing, somewhat overpriced, "buzzword compliant" D/S DAC that can be _easily_ bettered for _lower_ cost _without_ a need to fuss with it.


----------



## mainaman

Has anybody listened to both the Holo and the Vinshine?


----------



## rajacat

torq said:


> If they're X20 related, there's no point.
> 
> I've said this numerous times before, and I'll say it again ...
> 
> ...


 
 I don't own the x20. I'm shopping for a dac.
 It just that your comments about the x20 seem over caffeinated. They 're  the by far the most negative. I've read many owner reviews that are very impressed with the _stock_ x20 let alone the upcoming version.


----------



## Torq

rajacat said:


> I don't own the x20. I'm shopping for a dac.
> It just that your comments about the x20 seem over caffeinated. They 're  the by far the most negative. I've read many owner reviews that are very impressed with the _stock_ x20 let alone the upcoming version.


 
  
 You'll have to explain "over caffeinated" to me ...
  
 I'm fundamentally pre-disposed towards unjustified hype.  I've auditioned a good number of higher-end DACs in a system that is rather more revealing than most of those that are going to find an X20 at their heart, coupled with four of the six current TOTL headphones (no STAX SR-009 or HiFiMan HE1000 v2) , so I think I have a reasonable basis for dispassionately assessing where things sit in that particular continuum:
  

  
 My impressions on the X20 are "negative" because, compared to other DACs, I don't find it very inspiring, much less good value.  It's a mid-fi ESS implementation with the usual array of relatively-meaningless buzzwords that seem to accompany all products of it's ilk.  Those are all over the place.  If I thought it was good, I'd say so, buy one, and enthusiastically endorse it.  I'm definitely and demonstrably not in the "it's better because it costs more" camp, after all.
  
 I readily criticize products that I *own* (for example, I rank the $2,299 Yggdrasil or $2,399 Spring DAC ahead of my $9,400 Linn AK DSM/1).
  
 But I'm not going to say I think the X20 is anything special, even at it's current price, when I don't *believe* that.  I'd take Modi MB, Bifrost D/S or MB, Chord's Mojo, or anything from MHDT over the X20.  And those are _all_ places I've put my money where my mouth is.  It's not terrible, but it is bright, fatiguing (to me) and I believe you can do better, for less, without having to fiddle with the internals of the thing.
  
 Personally, I'd say listen to them *all* and decide that way ... but, of course, that's much more easily said than done where the Chinese "Hype-Fi" DACs are concerned.  The proof is in the pudding.  I've sampled it.  I don't want it.
  
 As for what comes _after_ the current X20 ... one presumes that the owners of the current version have *NOT*, in fact, heard the "upcoming version" (or it wouldn't be "upcoming"), so any enthusiasm so-directed would seem to be, *at best*, optimistically speculative.


----------



## Torq

rajacat said:


> I don't own the x20. I'm shopping for a dac.
> It just that your comments about the x20 seem over caffeinated. They 're  the by far the most negative. I've read many owner reviews that are very impressed with the _stock_ x20 let alone the upcoming version.


 

 One other thing ...
  
 "Owner reviews" are not a good basis for objective evaluation.
  
 Sure, they provide lots of hands (or ears) on time ... but they're also heavily subject to confirmation basis.
  
 No one wants to buy something and then have to say it's not fantastic - especially where there's no option to return the thing.  Hell, maybe it IS the best they've ever heard.  But then you have to look at what else it's been compared to.  Look carefully at my thoughts on various DACs, over time, and you'll see I'm quite willing to re-state my opinions on things as they evolve ... and that's because I'm not loyal to any manufacturer OR my own past-decisions/purchase choices and don't have an issue manning-up to situations in which I've found I'm wrong.


----------



## Luckbad

I put my Holo plans on hold for now. Unexpected expenses.

It's an outstanding DAC and I still want to get one in the future.

For now my home rig is the MHDT Labs Atlantis+ coming from Lynx E22 and into the ampsandsound Mogwai.

The Atlantis isn't revealing enough to require the Lynx E22 over the Singxer SU-1 so I'll likely be selling the Lynx.

The work rig will be a Starting Point Systems DAC 3 with no transport into Garage1217 Project Sunrise III.

I probably won't be able to get the Holo until mid next year.


----------



## gr8soundz

mainaman said:


> Has anybody listened to both the Holo and the Vinshine?


 
  
 +1


----------



## Torq

mainaman said:


> Has anybody listened to both the Holo and the Vinshine?


 
  
  


gr8soundz said:


> +1


 

 I've been trying to get "Alvin" to set up a US tour for his DAC.  We'll have to see how that goes.
  
 I got my Spring DAC today, so if I can get my hands on the Vinshine unit I'll be able to do a proper back-to-back comparison.


----------



## rajacat

torq said:


> One other thing ...
> 
> "Owner reviews" are not a good basis for objective evaluation.
> 
> ...


 
 I presently own a MHDT dac, the Constantine. It's certainly an old dac.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Their only tubeless dac, I believe. Actually I'm still happy with it...but I want more goodness. I noticed that you own the Stockholm .  How do you think the Pagoda would compare to the Level 1 Holo?


----------



## Torq

rajacat said:


> I presently own a MHDT dac, the Constantine. It's certainly an old dac.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'd not even heard of that unit! 
  
 I *used* to own the Stockholm v2.  I sold it a few months ago, though *NOT* on sonic grounds - it was in my bed-side rig, along with a Woo Audio WA-6 ... the tubes in both units were, shall we say, less than ideal for that particular environment (we broke three 274Bs ...) ... and the combination was a bit bigger than really made sense there.
  
 As PCM1704-based DACS go, the Pagoda is one of my favorites.  My issues are *not* with the MHDT unit, but with the PCM1704 chip.  If you like your bass a bit on the fast-and-loose side, it's probably ideal, but I like the PCM1702 and PCM56 or PCM63 a little better.  Very much a "personal signature preference".
  
 I still haven't heard the "Level 1" version of the Holo Audio Spring DAC, but if it is _at all_ like the Level 3, signature wise, then the PCM1704 issues I have with the MDHT unit are entirely absent and the Holo Audio unit is likely going to be preferable (I imagine the difference between L1 and L3 aren't relative to timbre, but more to detail and dynamics).
  
 Hope that helps!


----------



## Peaceofmind

Torq, I'm still waiting on my Holo Spring DAC level 3 from Kitsune HiFi. Did your Spring DAC just arrive unannounced on your doorstep or did kitsune HiFi provide a shipping tracking number when the DAC was ready to ship?


----------



## Torq

I got a couple of days notice that my DAC had shipped.  That was directly from Kitsune HiFi.
  
 I'm local to them, however, so it was shipped to them and I *just* picked it up locally.


----------



## mtoc

little tip: ES9018 should be avoided since the new 28/38 lands. But shoulda choose 28/38-design which ASRC is off. Anything using ASRC should be avoided.


----------



## mtoc

tip2: [if you wanna know, pme. it's too foxmulder.]


----------



## T Bone

mtoc said:


> little tip: ES9018 should be avoided since the new 28/38 lands. But shoulda choose 28/38-design which ASRC is off. Anything using ASRC should be avoided.


 
 huh?  I am not entirely certain I understood that post.  ARSC is Async Sample Rate Conversion.  Why should it be avoided?

 I think you're referring to the new Sabre 9028PRO and 9038 chipsets.  
  
 ** Benchmark has just released the DAC3 based on the 9028PRO chip
 ** Oppo's Sonnica DAC is based on the 9038PRO chip


----------



## Torq

t bone said:


> huh?  I am not entirely certain I understood that post.  ARSC is Async Sample Rate Conversion.  Why should it be avoided?
> 
> I think you're referring to the new Sabre 9028PRO and 9038 chipsets.
> 
> ...


 

 You won't be the only one for whom that post doesn't make a lot of sense, but that's that posters' particular style.
  
 ASRC, like everything in engineering, has pros and cons.  Blanket statements about avoiding it aren't very useful, nor it is some universal panacea that always makes a positive difference.
  
 As for the new ESS chipsets, it'll be interesting to see what, if any, audible differences they, or the implementations around them, bring (particularly where the 902X chips are pin-compatible with the  current 901X line.  Going by the initial spec-sheets the changes seem to be more concerned with lower-power operation, integration of additional functionality and ease of implementation than any particular focus on improved accuracy.  They offer very slightly better SNR and THD numbers, but those are already at a level where that, alone, isn't likely to result in any immediately audible change.
  
 Fundamentally they're still using the same DAC architecture as the 901X chips.


----------



## greenkiwi

I'm curious, isn't ARSC what all the USB cleaning/reclocking devices do?


----------



## greenkiwi

Also, there haven't been any reviews comparing level 1 with 2 or 3?


----------



## Torq

greenkiwi said:


> I'm curious, isn't ARSC what all the USB cleaning/reclocking devices do?


 

 No.
  
 Most of the "cleaners" either filter the USB power lines, or supply an entirely different, low-noise, supply in their place.  The "re-clockers" take in the USB data from the host, and then send it back out using a supposedly higher-quality implementation.  And then some units do both.
  
 "Re-clocking" USB Audio 2.0 outputs only to then send it *back out via USB* doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Assuming an asynchronous receiver on the DAC, it *has* to do it's own clocking out of the receiver's buffer anyway, so as long as the data arrives fast enough to keep the buffer full, the possible effects of upstream "re-clocking" are minimal (and have pretty much nothing to do with clock-accuracy at the DAC).  At most they might put less less "stress" on the receiver implementation, and if they're done well they might be less electrically noisy than the standard outputs coming from, say, a typical PC.
  
 ASRC is concerned with converting one sample rate (e.g. 44.1 KHz) to another (say 48 KHz) where the ratios are non-integer (e.g. 44.1 KHz to 88.2 KHz is a simple multiple of 2, where as 44.1 KHz to 48 KHz is a ratio of 160/147)  there are potentially multiple clocks/rates to re-sample between, and the clocks are allowed to drift some.


----------



## Torq

greenkiwi said:


> Also, there haven't been any reviews comparing level 1 with 2 or 3?


 

 I haven't seen any.
  
 I was hoping that I'd get to compare the Level 2 with my Level 3 this week, but it turns out that the local chap that had what I _thought_ was a Level 2 actually has a Level 3 (or something that isn't a pure Level 2 at least) so that's not going to work out.


----------



## Clemmaster

torq said:


> "Re-clocking" USB Audio 2.0 outputs only to then send it *back out via USB* doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Assuming an asynchronous receiver on the DAC, it *has* to do it's own clocking out of the receiver's buffer anyway, so as long as the data arrives fast enough to keep the buffer full, the possible effects of upstream "re-clocking" are minimal (and have pretty much nothing to do with clock-accuracy at the DAC).  At most they might put less less "stress" on the receiver implementation, and if they're done well they might be less electrically noisy than the standard outputs coming from, say, a typical PC.
> 
> ASRC is concerned with converting one sample rate (e.g. 44.1 KHz) to another (say 48 KHz) where the ratios are non-integer (e.g. 44.1 KHz to 88.2 KHz is a simple multiple of 2, where as 44.1 KHz to 48 KHz is a ratio of 160/147)  there are potentially multiple clocks/rates to re-sample between, and the clocks are allowed to drift some.


 
  
 It makes sense when you understand the effect of jitter on the destination USB receiver: it needs to work harder to recover the bits (enabling more and more blocks to pre-process the incoming data - like multi-stage PLLs, line EQ, etc.), hence generating more noise on the ground plane.


----------



## Torq

clemmaster said:


> It makes sense when you understand the effect of jitter on the destination USB receiver: it needs to work harder to recover the bits (enabling more and more blocks to pre-process the incoming data - like multi-stage PLLs, line EQ, etc.), hence generating more noise on the ground plane.


 

 Sure ... which is what I'm referring to with it causing less "stress" on the receiver (i.e. preventing it needing to work "harder").
  
 It just seems to me that if you're going to go the trouble of re-clocking a USB input, you'd be better off *outputting* _something else entirely_ that isn't as complex to handle (and is consequently less electrically noisy) as USB on the DAC end.  And ideally via a connection that is galvanically isolated by definition and avoids such concerns in the first place.
  
 USB -> S/PDIF, AES3 or I2S makes a lot more sense to me than USB -> USB -> USB.
  
 That's not to say that USB -> USB -> USB makes "no" sense, just "not much".


----------



## Clemmaster

Well, USB is the most ubiquitous asynchronous interface. On paper, that's better than a synchronous transmission like S/PDIF (let alone the clock + data transfer scheme).
  
 If more DACs had I2S input with master clock capability, we'd see more USB to I2S devices (once the players agree on a I2S connection, that is...).


----------



## Torq

clemmaster said:


> Well, USB is the most ubiquitous asynchronous interface. On paper, that's better than a synchronous transmission like S/PDIF (let alone the clock + data transfer scheme).
> 
> If more DACs had I2S input with master clock capability, we'd see more USB to I2S devices (once the players agree on a I2S connection, that is...).


 

 Indeed.
  
 Though in engineering, the "on paper" part (in general, not necessarily specific to this discussion) often makes assumptions, or fails to consider details, that turn out to be inaccurate/significant (respectively) when we move off the paper and into practice.
  
 I'd love it if USB sounded as good, even on the same DAC, as other interfaces, especially without having to resort to additional boxes and cables, but so far I've not found a case where it has.  I'm sure they exist - I've just not personally come across one yet.


----------



## joseph69

Just pulled the trigger on the "LEVEL 3"!


----------



## mscott58

joseph69 said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the "LEVEL 3"!




Congrats and welcome to the "eagerly awaiting" club! Cheers


----------



## joseph69

mscott58 said:


> Congrats and welcome to the "eagerly awaiting" club! Cheers


 
 Thank you…likewise.
 January will be here before you know it!


----------



## mscott58

joseph69 said:


> Thank you…likewise.
> January will be here before you know it!




So they're quoting January delivery on new orders now?


----------



## joseph69

mscott58 said:


> So they're quoting January delivery on new orders now?


 
 Yes, this was shown under the "sellers notes" on the PayPal invoice.


----------



## lukeap69

The more the merrier.


----------



## greenkiwi

> ASRC is concerned with converting one sample rate (e.g. 44.1 KHz) to another (say 48 KHz) where the ratios are non-integer (e.g. 44.1 KHz to 88.2 KHz is a simple multiple of 2, where as 44.1 KHz to 48 KHz is a ratio of 160/147)  there are potentially multiple clocks/rates to re-sample between, and the clocks are allowed to drift some.


 
 Note that the presences of ASRC does not mean that the sampling rate is also changed.  These are two separate issues (though some DACs combine them.)  My Emotiva DC-1 uses ASRC to remove jitter but does not change the sampling rate.  (Their XDA-2 resampled everything to 96KHz when this was enabled.)


----------



## despinos

Hello,
  
 I received yesterday (in Spain) my Holo Lv 1  (220 Volts). Oh yesssss!!!
  
  
 Ordered from Shengzhen audio website on 11/11, so it took just a couple of weeks from order to reception. All ok, and followed tracking with no problems (DHL). I Just had to pay customs (about 60 USD- low because of value declared by shipper) at reception. NOTE: Tracking info took about 3-4 days to appear on DHL since seller said they had shipped it..
  
 So far, very happy with the purchase. I really wouldn't buy a lv 2 or 3 unless there were a consensus that they are much better than the Lv 1, (which I doubt they are).
  
 Just head a few songs (+ Aries+ Musical fidelity KW500+ modded Diapason Adamantes) and I see no reason for a DAC upgrade beyond this gadget anymore.


----------



## lukeap69

Congrats @despinos

Please do give us your impressions after sufficient listening time.


----------



## joseph69

despinos said:


> Hello,
> 
> I received yesterday (in Spain) my Holo Lv 1  (220 Volts). Oh yesssss!!!


 
 Congratulations.
 What DAC's have you had in the past that you're comparing it to with such little burn-in?
 Thanks


----------



## DecentLevi

I would like to get the Holo Springs DAC but I would also to first NEED to hear any comparisons between levels one two and three. Perhaps this is something that we can ask the manufacturer to do for us since they may be the only ones with all three. Also is it only level 3 that has the DSD capability? 

And what are the differences between all three?


----------



## joseph69

All levels do DSD.


----------



## Torq

decentlevi said:


> I would like to get the Holo Springs DAC but I would also to first NEED to hear any comparisons between levels one two and three. Perhaps this is something that we can ask the manufacturer to do for us since they may be the only ones with all three. Also is it only level 3 that has the DSD capability?
> 
> And what are the differences between all three?


 

 Feature/functionality and appearance are the same on all units; the differences are all found in the PSU components and wiring:
  
 The Level 2 is the same as the Llevel 1 *but* with the four primary PSU capacitors are replaced with Jensen capacitors (4,700?F @ 63v).
  
 The Level 3 is the "Kitsune Tuned Edition", only available from Kitsune HiFi, and it builds on the Level 2 adding/upgrading parts as follows:
  

100VAC O-type (NOT toroid) 99.99% Silver custom hand made audio transformer.
All copper wire is replaced with 1.5mm pure occ silver wire
Input film cap is replaced with a Mundorf Silver/Oil cap
All PCB plugs and wire plugs are removed and then wire is soldered direct to the PCB
Replaced IEC inlet connectors with Oyaide pure silver/rhodium plated connectors at the IEC inlet
Fuse is upgraded to Audio Horizon Platinum Reference


----------



## T Bone

torq said:


> the differences are all found in the PSU components and wiring:
> The Level 2 is the same as the Llevel 1 *but* with the four primary PSU capacitors are replaced with Jensen capacitors
> The Level 3 is the "Kitsune Tuned Edition", only available from Kitsune HiFi, and it builds on the Level 2


 
 I know that as you start climbing the gear ladder, the differences between components shrink.  Some folks will spend increasingly large sums of $$$ chasing increasingly miniscule/subtle differences.   It is up to the buyer to decide if the priceerformance ratio is right for them. 
  
 Speaking for myself alone; I have already invested several times more than I initially ever thought I would then when I started ~3 years ago.  The $1,700 retail price of the level 1 DAC no longer seems outrageous to me.  
  
_...but I want to know how close the level 1 comes to the level 3._  
  
 I understand that the extra $1k buys some better components, but *is the difference in sound quality commensurate with the expenditure*.  Does the level 3 trim sound $1,000 better than the level 1?  
  
 If the Level 1 kit gets me ~90% of the level 3 kit, I would be very happy.  I won't sleep over better capacitors, silver wiring and hand wound transformers.  I am sure I will find a good place to spend the $1k savings!


----------



## jerick70

t bone said:


> I know that as you start climbing the gear ladder, the differences between components shrink.  Some folks will spend increasingly large sums of $$$ chasing increasingly miniscule/subtle differences.   It is up to the buyer to decide if the priceerformance ratio is right for them.
> 
> Speaking for myself alone; I have already invested several times more than I initially ever thought I would then when I started ~3 years ago.  The $1,700 retail price of the level 1 DAC no longer seems outrageous to me.
> 
> ...




Very good point. The exact same thought process I'm going through. 

I'm planning on purchasing the level 1 and adding mods down the road myself. It won't be difficult to solder in a few new capacitors and change the power transformer out. You can do it for a lot less and have fun in the process.


----------



## rajacat

t bone said:


> I know that as you start climbing the gear ladder, the differences between components shrink.  Some folks will spend increasingly large sums of $$$ chasing increasingly miniscule/subtle differences.   It is up to the buyer to decide if the priceerformance ratio is right for them.
> 
> Speaking for myself alone; I have already invested several times more than I initially ever thought I would then when I started ~3 years ago.  The $1,700 retail price of the level 1 DAC no longer seems outrageous to me.
> 
> ...


 
 Ah! The level 3 Spring is a  Kitsune modded level 2. You could always do some simple mods that would take your L1 closer to L2/L3 as funds become available. The silver tranny is the one that would be $$. Replacing the input cap would be easy.
 I'm tempted by the L1 for $1400 too although I thinking that it might be worthwhile waiting till the new year and see what other new dacs come on the scene. I was hoping to keep the price less than 1K.


----------



## Torq

t bone said:


> I know that as you start climbing the gear ladder, the differences between components shrink.  Some folks will spend increasingly large sums of $$$ chasing increasingly miniscule/subtle differences.   It is up to the buyer to decide if the priceerformance ratio is right for them.
> 
> Speaking for myself alone; I have already invested several times more than I initially ever thought I would then when I started ~3 years ago.  The $1,700 retail price of the level 1 DAC no longer seems outrageous to me.
> 
> ...


 

 I'd already posted that I couldn't help in regards to how the different levels sounded as I've only heard the Level 3 ... I was simply answering the raw question as to the differences between the units.
  
 As to "Does the level 3 trim sound $1,000 better than the level 1?" the *only* person that can _properly_ answer that question is *YOU*, since everyone is going to have different thresholds at which they consider the increased cost worthwhile - it's an entirely personal evaluation.


----------



## T Bone

torq said:


> I'd already posted that I couldn't help in regards to how the different levels sounded as I've only heard the Level 3 ... I was simply answering the raw question as to the differences between the units.


  
 I understand - it was a rhetorical question that I've been asking myself. I have been keenly following this thread, your "life after yggy" thread and read your review of the level 3 spring.  Thank you for all of your research and sharing your impressions.  I've enjoyed lurking!
 I know that several folks have expressed (in this thread) the same question about the perceived differences of the three levels.  To date, no one has been able to provide a first-hand account.  
  


torq said:


> As to "Does the level 3 trim sound $1,000 better than the level 1?" the *only* person that can _properly_ answer that question is *YOU*, since everyone is going to have different thresholds at which they consider the increased cost worthwhile - it's an entirely personal evaluation.


 
 I am in complete agreement.  I pay very close attention that priceerformance ratio.  I have a feeling that the Level 1 DAC, which has the same core R2R circuitry as the Level 3, could be a screaming priceerformance buy.


----------



## rgs9200m

If you have an SACD player, can you play an SACD disc using the player as a transport and send the digital output to the Holo for true DSD processing (via Coax or Toslink I suppose)?
 Or would you need a dedicated SACD transport? Thanks.


----------



## jelt2359

Interested in more impressions of the Level 1 as they come in, especially compared to other DACs. Subbed. If the Yggy can do well without the exotic upgrades, I wonder how the Holo Dac would do. Don't get me wrong, I do think the upgrades make a significant difference and that's the one I would go for as a primary DAC, but IMHO if the Level 1 gets anywhere close, then that's an amazing price to performance ratio. Disruptive-level, really.


----------



## ToroFiestaSol

Looking at the upgrades (silver transformer and wiring, audiophile fuse and caps), Level 1 *should *perform awfully close to Level 3...however, I would like to hear them side by side to confirm my suspicions.


----------



## jelt2359

I have a different view. Upgrading these same items has made a big impact in other components- especially the big one there, the transformer.


----------



## yage

rgs9200m said:


> If you have an SACD player, can you play an SACD disc using the player as a transport and send the digital output to the Holo for true DSD processing (via Coax or Toslink I suppose)?
> Or would you need a dedicated SACD transport? Thanks.


 

 Usually the DSD bitstream  cannot be output over coax or Toslink because of copyright restrictions.


----------



## T Bone

jelt2359 said:


> I have a different view. Upgrading these same items has made a big impact in other components- especially the big one there, the transformer.


 
 As previously mentioned by others in this thread; I can see that making a substantial difference in an amplifier, but I don't know if I would expect similar gains from a DAC.


----------



## Luckbad

I've only heard level 3, but I'm willing to guarantee that it wouldn't sound $1000 better than the level 1 to me.

We're deep into diminishing returns territory here. Even the Kitsune site says the level 1 is the better value.

My heavily modded Atlantis is only about 7% better than stock and cost something like 45% more than stock.

My Sonic Frontiers SFD-1 MKII SE+ was maybe 10% better for about 40% greater cost.

Power tends to be one of the best upgrades as well the most costly. For dacs, I've found power upgrades to matter less than with amps (they still improve things, but at a worse bang for the buck).

The real question in my mind that requires hearing a level 1 is: does it cross the threshold in performance sans upgrades enough to justify a purchase?


----------



## mscott58

t bone said:


> As previously mentioned by others in this thread; I can see that making a substantial difference in an amplifier, but I don't know if I would expect similar gains from a DAC.


 
 I've been surprised by the effect of less before in my audiophile life...
  
 Cheers


----------



## DecentLevi

After throwing out the idea of having the manufacturer be the one to do a sound comparison between the three levels of this DAC, I now realise that may not be the most trustworthy route - seeing a comparison like this may be tainted to increase their bottom line. Maybe though if someone can come up with a brighter way of coaxing Holo Audio to do more of an objective comparison such as having someone do a blind comparison of the three versions, then we have something better to go on.
  


torq said:


> Feature/functionality and appearance are the same on all units; the differences are all found in the PSU components and wiring:
> 
> The Level 2 is the same as the Llevel 1 *but* with the four primary PSU capacitors are replaced with Jensen capacitors (4,700?F @ 63v).
> 
> ...


 
 Not being familiar with the sound difference most of these components make, I am however familiar with the difference of OCC silver vs. copper wire, and my experience has been the signature was noticeably cleaner / more detailed yet brighter with the silver cable;  with a headphone replacement cable anyway. Torq or anybody, would you be able to say anything about a comparison of the Holo Springs DAC vs. others in terms of neutrality / tonality? I'm really wondering if all the above mentioned changes bring about a much brighter sound, or even overtly analytical or not... don't get me wrong though many like a detailed sound just as long as it's not clinical.
  
 Also that was a very good point about buying the level 1 and upgrading it by custom DIY. But then for this, it would be very helpful to know a general real-world cost of how much this may take one to bring it into an electronics shop of some sort (for me this would be my only choice as my tools are very limited). But of course not all of the above may be feasible to have a local electronics shop done, such as the special transformer and all of the PCB changes...
  
 So if anyone has any ideas on how we may be able to coax an unbiased comparison from the manufacturer or anybody who has tried all three, that would be so helpful to us all. And please if somebody can post about the tonality of level 3 vs. other neutral DACs that would be helpful, and finally about vague cost estimates of having the level 1 modded that would be cool too. Thanks everyone!


----------



## joseph69

@DecentLevi 
  
(THIS) may help answer some of your questions.


----------



## BlakeT

torq said:


> Looks like Kitsune HiFi has a black-Friday sale on the Spring DAC - Level 1 ...
> 
> $1400 including US shipping ... that's better than the grey-market/Chinese vendors and still has the proper warranty ...


 

 I assume this means there is no Black Friday sale on the Level 3?


----------



## joseph69

blaket said:


> I assume this means there is no Black Friday sale on the Level 3?


 
 It's already on sale from $2599.00 to $2399.00.


----------



## despinos

joseph69 said:


> Congratulations.
> What DAC's have you had in the past that you're comparing it to with such little burn-in?
> Thanks


 

 Thank you,
  
 The last Dac I used was an iDSD Micro. Before that, I used the DACs included in a SQB Touch, an edirol UA25, and the DACs in a couple of CD players (including a Primare V20), and also the DACs included in various Pre/Pros, including a Meridian 565, and others such as Arcam (AV9), Onkyo 905, Vincent SAV C1, sunfire ultimate receiver, etc.
  
 Actually, I consider the HOLO like the first serious DAC I have had. From the various Dacs (most included in the precessors) that I have tried, it's with the HOLO that I have heard the greatest improvement in quality (more realistic and more detail). I have not heard other DACs such as Schitt multibits, but I'm satisfied enough with the Holo (lv 1) so far that I don't plan to upgrade the DAC anymore.
  
 In the past, I was rather sceptic with DACs (tending to the "bits are bits" side), and believed more that Speakers and amps could make a difference. Been restricted with speakers size, I choose an oldie Diapason Adamantes (similar to Sonus Faber), whcih I "updated" installing modern drivers (Satoris). I have tried both valves and solid state, and currently settled with a Musical fidelity KW500 (previously I had an small INSPIRE SET (one of those that Dennis had sells on ebay), and also a separate pre and power amp from Primaluna (which are really good for the price). I use an Auralic Aries (femto and linear PSU) as streamer, connected to an SSD that stores my flac ripped music collection (pop, jazz, a little rock and a little classical, etc). I don't care much for DSD, which I believe will stay a niche format.
  
 If I had some time, I will post some comments/impressions after I listen some more to the HOLO dac.
  
 note: for those deciding between the Yggy and the Holo, they should really consider that there is a large price gap between the Holo (lv 1) and the Yggy.
  
 Now for some controversy anbd playing the bad cop: about the lv 3 : I remember reading an extract of an  email from the Holo Spring dac designer (posted by Kitsune audio user) commenting on those lv. 2 and three mods: (don't know if that message is still online on a forum or was removed). What I understood from that mail excerpt is that Jeff, who is Holo Dac designer, really does not positively encourages to buy a lv 2 or 3, but rather says (and this are his words as I remember them) that (at least one of these mods, e.g. silver transformer) "cannot hurt". Well, saying that a mod "cannot hurt" does really encourages me tobuy a notably more expensive product (lv3 compared to lv 1)
  
  
 While I might have misunderstood that message from the designer (the "cannot hurt" part), I would like to hear himself directly (and not through a distributor/seller, whatever official) strongly recomending any of those caps or transformer "upgrades", as been a considerable upgrade in sound quality from the level 1.
  
 Still interested to hear (Torq's) comparisons of a lv 1 or 2 with a lv 3.


----------



## wuwhere

How about a lvl1 comparison against other DACs (like Yggy, MHDT, etc...).


----------



## rajacat

I'm on the verge of buying the L2 unit. Still trying to overcome the anxiety of a new purchase. I noticed that torq lives in Seattle. I live on the other side of Puget Sound. Perhaps, after burn-in, we could get together and A/B the units.


----------



## joseph69

despinos said:


> Thank you,
> 
> The last Dac I used was an iDSD Micro. Before that, I used the DACs included in a SQB Touch, an edirol UA25, and the DACs in a couple of CD players (including a Primare V20), and also the DACs included in various Pre/Pros, including a Meridian 565, and others such as Arcam (AV9), Onkyo 905, Vincent SAV C1, sunfire ultimate receiver, etc.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for the reply, looking forward to hearing your impressions…won't have my 3 until sometime in January to hear against my PWD-ll (which is the best DAC * I've* owned/heard) and decide which I prefer.


----------



## lukeap69

rajacat said:


> I'm on the verge of buying the L2 unit. Still trying to overcome the anxiety of a new purchase. I noticed that torq lives in Seattle. I live on the other side of Puget Sound. Perhaps, after burn-in, we could get together and A/B the units.


 
 That would be nice. I hope @Torq would be willing to compare the Level 2 to his Level 3.


----------



## Torq

rajacat said:


> I'm on the verge of buying the L2 unit. Still trying to overcome the anxiety of a new purchase. I noticed that torq lives in Seattle. I live on the other side of Puget Sound. Perhaps, after burn-in, we could get together and A/B the units.


 
  


lukeap69 said:


> That would be nice. I hope @Torq would be willing to compare the Level 2 to his Level 3.


 

 I'm game.
  
 I'm going to be hosting a (very) mini-meet at my place in January (or that's how the timing looks right now).
  
 If local types want to bring their Level 2 or Level 1, we can do back to back comparisons there.  I'll have my Level 3 and Yggdrasil, among other things.


----------



## WNBC

Very cool. Pulled the trigger a little while ago on the level 3, but interested to hear the opinions about the different levels. Should be very informative for the community. 



torq said:


> I'm game.
> 
> I'm going to be hosting a (very) mini-meet at my place in January (or that's how the timing looks right now).
> 
> If local types want to bring their Level 2 or Level 1, we can do back to back comparisons there.  I'll have my Level 3 and Yggdrasil, among other things.


----------



## rajacat

Well... I just pulled the trigger on the Level 2.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Grand total: $1502.98. Decided to go for the L2 since it's only $170 more than the L1. The  four Jensen PS caps retail for ~$45 each and I'd probably want to replace the stock caps anyway. Aside from the silver tranny, the other L3 upgrades I'll DIY. Who knows, maybe the copper wired tranny will sound better to my ears, if not, I can live with that or explore alternatives.
  
  
 ,


----------



## Superdad

I went for the Level 3 as Tim at Kitsune told me that Jeff at HOLO hand picks the R2R modules for the Level 3 units.  If it was just the transformer and soldered rhodium connector differences between L2 and L3 I might not have gone for it.  But if the modules are hand measured and selected, then that is worth it to me.


----------



## rafabro

torq said:


> _...If the X20 is such a wonderful DAC, why is it that *every single time* (and this is another case in point) someone brings it up, it's ALWAYS modded?_


 
 If Holo is such wonderful DAC, why is that most of people want buy modded one (level 2, level 3) or planning DIY?
 Why you get modded one?
  
 LOL


----------



## Torq

rafabro said:


> If Holo is such wonderful DAC, why is that most of people want buy modded one (level 2, level 3) or planning DIY?
> Why you get modded one?
> 
> LOL


 
  
 The Level 1, 2 and 3 units are just different options from the *original designer* and *built at the factory*.  It's no different than, say, the two versions of the Auralic Aries.  Which is a FAR cry from sticking cardboard under transformers and plastering the PCB with haphazardly soldered cotton-wrapped wires based on some third-party's advice (who also happens to charge more than the entire DAC costs for performing said "mods").
  
 The differences are in the PSU.  And well-respected companies like NAIM have been offering different PSU levels for, oh, at least 30 years.
  
 When Gustard start offering the X20 with cardboard transformer mounts and random cotton wiring, you'll have a comparison.  Until then, you're just coming across as ridiculous.
  
 You should listen to both and compare.


----------



## rigo

rajacat said:


> Well... I just pulled the trigger on the Level 2.   Grand total: $1502.98. Decided to go for the L2 since it's only $170 more than the L1.




Where did you get the L2 at that price?


----------



## Peaceofmind

Also level 3 goes through more intense QC testing and burn in time.


----------



## rajacat

rigo said:


> Where did you get the L2 at that price?


 
*Black Friday *
  
 http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac-hi-end-dsd-dac-220v-only.html


----------



## Robert McAdam

I use XXhighend which is similar to HQ player. XXhighend can upsample to 24/768. 
  
Can the Holo Audio Spring USB take 768 in NOS mode? 
  
I know the Singxer SU-1 I2S is limited at 384. 
  
The Phasure NOS dac designed to go with XXhighend works at 768. This DAC is not mentioned as a comparative NOS Dac and by all accounts is possibly the best in conjunction with Xxhighend. The only NOS competitor mentioned is the Metrum Pavane which is from Holland also. When it comes to price the 2 Dutch Dac's are similar leaving the Chinese Holo Audio out on its own.
  
Robert


----------



## DecentLevi

Holo Audio Spring Impressions by DecentLevi 11-26-16​  
 Hello all, I just came back from a fairly in-depth audition of the Holo Audio Spring DAC level 3. Today during the local south Bay Area Head-Fi meet I set up, I was bestowed with the chance to get my (ears) on this Holo Audio DAC, and it was an adventurous ride with some interesting quirks. This was all thanks to the exhibitor @HeadAmpTeam who brought their rig.
  
Source chain:

Amp:                  GSX MK II amp (dual unit balanced + SE), and Elise OTL tube amp from Feliks Audio
DAC:                  Holo Audio Spring DAC Level 3
USB component: Singxer SU-1, connected to the DAC via I2S cable
Headphones:       Focal Utopia, HifiMan HE-1000 v2, HD-800 and HD-650
  
 Source: lossless FLAC songs of various genres mostly Daft Punk (Random Access Memories) and Michael Jackson (Thriller), played via Foobar on a Windows laptop. Also tested with my laptop as a source with a few DSD x64 files.
  
 +  
+ +
  
  
_I didn't take any photos so above are stock photos except for the Focal Utopia_
  
Appearance: I was quite agasp at the size & weight of this thing. It's far bigger in person than it seems in any of the photos I've seen online. It's a very similar width as the Yggy but probably a tad more length, yet much thinner. It packs some hefty weight too, which is more than made up for by it's enormously hefty sonic performance. I commented that it's about the exact dimensions of the initial DVD players that came out in the late 90's, and the vendor agreed on this. The build was as solid as a fine gem.
  
Sound:
Well actually my amusement in this hobby is more for the looks of the gear, so I didn't bother to listen... LOL gotcha! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 So my initial impression with this was with the GSX MK 2 amp and the *HEK (HE-1000 v2*) headphones. It sounded fairly OK, but really nothing to write home about. Throughout the testing I went back to this pairing several times and it struck me as rather 'meh', with bass that was thunderous and somehow off kilter, with dynamics that are super soft / slow and greatly rolled off highs making details slim to none. IMO after trying the HEK (1 and 2) on at least 3 separate occasions is that they can be good for the likes of orchestral / classical for the large soundstage but anything with a beat is a non-starter. Several A/B's to these and the Focal Utopia (more below) between both myself and a random listener had basically agreed on the above, even the honest vendor seemed quite taken aback with the improvement with the Utopia on this system... *this was a case of bad synergy / crappy headphone model rather than the DAC. Moving on...*
  
 Next I took over a well burnt in pair of *HD-800* (sorry, the S version was not available), and everything changed from 'OK' to 'extremely resolving with a lot of finesse'. Imaging, details and overall presentation are quite comparable, if not (perhaps) even better than a Yggy + Rangarok + HD800 I recall trying earlier that year in the same room. Voices screamed with realism, and layering / imaging was astonishing. Drums hit cleanly and with authority, no matter how complex the recording seems to be. However, being the HD-800, I've always seen it as not quite perfection, as my take on its' sound signature is slightly bright with something very hard to explain about the dynamics that has always struck me as off kilter, as if it's just a few milliseconds slower than natural.
  
 Meet the Holo Audio Spring's pairing on a good amp with the *Focal Utopia* Headphones _(shown above on bottom right)_
 I had to make up a word for this pairing: 'Awe'-stonishing! I got this sense of awe in astonishment with a physical reaction of the chills and near loss of motor skills, as my body sunk down in the chair, mind transported into the scene of the recording so deeply it was probably the beginning stages of an out-of-body-experience. Intrinsic perfection, brilliance, bemusement and transfixing non-stop! Competing only with ultra-rare extinct rigs I've heard such as the Sony MDR-R10, this was easily one of the very top rigs I've ever heard after 6-7 meets. Perhaps the best bass definition I've ever heard, lusciously organic mids, spot on treble, fantastic dynamics / punchyness and PRaT, and very detailed in a good way - pleasingly detailed rather than clinical. Excellent soundstage. A cross between the sound of the dynamic driver HD-800 and electrostatic driver Stax SR-009, which I like this unique beryllium driver headphone the best. And no wonder it sounds so good with the GSX MK 2 amp - the vendor told me that amp was tuned with the Focal Utopia headphones. Also note I have tried these headphones last summer with the Liquid Tungsten and top Woo Audio amps such as WA22 (IIRC), and indeed these do sound amazing with other amps too! Pairing them with the Holo Audio Spring DAC is an ultimate pairing, and one I aspire to have.
  
 The Focal Utopia costs only $1,000 more than the $3,000 HE-1,000 v2, but IMO it sounds 5x better.
  
 Next I tried the *HD-650* on this pairing. My impression was it sounds overtly dark with a fairly substantial loss of detail. I then tried these 'cans on my Elise amp (still with the Holo Audio Spring DAC), to which the sound was surprisingly not changed very much, maybe just a touch darker. Unless you have a fairly bright amp, I as of yet would not recommend the HD-650 with the Holo Audio DAC. 
  
 Comparing the GSX MK2 to the Feliks Audio Elise amp on the same DAC system and headphones, it looks like the giant-killer solid state won, having much better dynamics / immediacy, and overall more resolving. However the Elise can come close, with the right tubes - as the sound of this versatile $700 tube amp can be customized with thousands of possible tube combinations; and the Elise is nearly comparable with the Zana Deux. The GSX amp _should _sound better as it lists for $2,999!
  
DSD mode:
 Towards the end of my comparison I also tried several well mastered DSD 64x files of various genres in native DSD mode on the same above system with both HD-800 and Focal Utopia. It was absolutely astonishing, with perhaps even more micro-details than PCM. Overall both PCM and DSD were quite pleasing with this DSD, and even comparable. To do a proper comparison, I then moved my laptop source with the same headphones over to my Gustard X12 DAC, playing the same sections of the same songs. Interestingly, the Holo Audio Spring DAC really did sound better than what I _previously _thought was a fantastic native DSD implementation on my Gustard X12 DAC. The differences I noticed were a more organic sound and better bass definition on the Holo Spring DAC - oddly it seemed as if the X12 was unable to reproduce certain background bass passages, where the Holo Spring had done them with finesse.
  
USB cleaning / re-clocking components:
 OK guys, this is what I consider to be the most important take-home from this review: The Holo Audio Spring "_requires_" a USB component / cleaner... that is, if you're a hi-fi audio enthusiast or anything more than a casual listener - and even with the level 3.
  
 I had initially asked the vendor (mentioned at top) what is that black box on top of the DAC, to which he told me it's the Singxer SU-1 (USB signal cleaner / reclocker) and he surprised me by saying this DAC is not the same without one. So towards the end I did a proper test and confirmed his opinion to be absolutely 100% valid: After using his setup all along with the Singxer SU-1 connected to the DAC by I2S cable, I asked him to "remove the middle man", so connecting my laptop to the Holo Audio Spring directly with a USB cable. Even though this caused about a 5 min. delay to install the separate driver required for either of these two components, I know with certainty this is the difference I heard: Without the USB component, the overall performance was simply quelled by a lot, making the Holo Audio Spring no more desirable to me if at all than my $250 Modi 2 multibit DAC (AKA 'Mimby'). The energy and realism was pushed back at least 40%, and though I didn't do a thorough enough A/B, it also seems the soundstage and detail were also reduced by a fairly moderate amount.
  
Model versions:
 Without remembering precisely what was said, the vendor told me something on the order of having only heard the level three, but that they should all sound quite similar. He pointed to the blown-up photo of the internal circuitry that was placed as a cool looking sticker covering the entire top of his Holo Audio Spring DAC, showing how the schematics, chip, etc. etc. were all the same on all three versions, with the exception of several parts, which in his opinion may make more of a modest difference. He also pointed to the USB section of the PCB on the circuitry photo, indicating that the USB section may potentially be easily changed / upgraded.
  
Summary:
 All my testing had shown the Holo Audio Spring DAC (level 3) to be very neutral, striking down my previous suggestion that its' silver wiring may cause extra brightness. I would also like to happily mention that it is not 'too' colored. I would say it is slightly on the 'musical' side of coloration with a slight sound akin to tube euphony. It certaintly doesn't sound cold / clinical, but it's also not a highly colored sound, only a subtle one that's pleasing and really gels with the right headphones... it also seems a somewhat system-dependent DAC, so synergy with upsteam gear (AMP + headphones) becomes very important. I didn't spend enough time with it to gauge the soundstage / imaging enough, but can say it does seem comparable to the Yggy.
  
 I personally don't have much of a problem with the apparent absolutely-required addition of an USB component - I already have a Schiit Wyrd and if that doesn't do it for me, the Singxer SU-1 is only an extra $399. And about the three versions, I would definitely have to say, IMO that the level 1 must be a very great price-to-performance ratio, being that it's around 1/2 the price as level three, possible to be modded, and mainly the same as the level three. So for me, I'll just get the level 1 and see how it goes.
  
 PS - @HeadAmpTeam, do you also sell this DAC? Because you mentioned they're somewhat hard to come by.


----------



## mko71

I have sort of a unique situation. I have an Oppo 103 that has the Vanity HD audio board. I can output DSD over DoP etc via SPDiF. How can I connect this DAC? Is there a SPDIF to USB box? Right now I have a modified Tascam DA-3000 that I'm using to play files/SACD's from my 103 and I can also use SD cards. 

Thanks!


----------



## mordy

Hi DL,
  
 Read you impressions with interest. Here is my question: If the Singxer SU-1 USB signal cleaner / reclocker makes such a difference as to make the Holo DAC sound ordinary without it, did you try the Elise with the Singxser?


----------



## joseph69

@DecentLevi 
  
*"making the Holo Audio Spring no more desirable to me if at all than my $250 Modi 2"*
  
 Thinking maybe I should just buy the SU1 for my PWD-ll in this case?
 Sounds like the SU1 is the game changer rather than the Spring?


----------



## rajacat

decentlevi said:


> ​ USB cleaning / re-clocking components:
> OK guys, this is what I consider to be the most important take-home from this review: The Holo Audio Spring "_requires_" a USB component / cleaner... that is, if you're a hi-fi audio enthusiast or anything more than a casual listener - and even with the level 3.
> 
> al parts, which in his opinion may make more of a modest difference. He also pointed to the USB section of the PCB on the circuitry photo, indicating that the USB section may potentially be easily changed / upgraded.


 
 Did you try the Spring with SPDIF, w/o the SU-1 inserted, in NOS mode? No Usb.


----------



## joseph69

@DecentLevi 
  
 Also, what source was being used at the meet that  there was such an impressive result with the SU1 in-between?
 Thanks.


----------



## Torq

For what it's worth, while I think the USB input on the Spring DAC is the weakest link it has, the difference between the I2S input vs. the AES or S/PDIF interfaces was very small.  Discernible, but not worth worrying about.  It certainly wasn't a big difference and for me was much smaller than the difference between using the Spring in NOS vs. OS mode.
  
 I'd use the SU-1 if my source was USB and I'd use the SU-1 if I wanted to do multi-rate DSD, but as it stands my Spring DAC is now connected to an Auralic Aries via AES and that's how it'll be used going forward.


----------



## rajacat

torq said:


> For what it's worth, while I think the USB input on the Spring DAC is the weakest link it has, the difference between the I2S input vs. the AES or S/PDIF interfaces was very small.  Discernible, but not worth worrying about.  It certainly wasn't a big difference and for me was much smaller than the difference between using the Spring in NOS vs. OS mode.
> 
> I'd use the SU-1 if my source was USB and I'd use the SU-1 if I wanted to do multi-rate DSD, but as it stands my Spring DAC is now connected to an Auralic Aries via AES and that's how it'll be used going forward.


 
 That's reassuring. The Spring was a stretch for me, substantially surpassing my 1K budget. I might buy the SU1 in the future if I want to explore the outer reaches of OS DSD but I suspect that I'll be happy just inserting the L2 Spring to where the Constantine is now. 
 laptop > Bolder SB3 > MHDT Constantine > Tortuga LDR passive pre > various amps > speakers ( I know this is Head Fi but I'm mainly a floor stand speaker guy)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## DecentLevi

mordy said:


> Hi DL,
> 
> Read you impressions with interest. Here is my question: If the Singxer SU-1 USB signal cleaner / reclocker makes such a difference as to make the Holo DAC sound ordinary without it, did you try the Elise with the Singxser?


 
 Hey friend. I think my comparison of the above rig with/without the Singxer SU-1 USB component was done only with the GSX MK2 amp and the Focal Utopia headphones - but I do remember the Elise sounding top notch with this USB component + DAC and much better than with with my Wyrd + Gustard X12 DAC I tried afterwards. I'll tell ya the difference was far reaching; greatly improved with this USB component, and very dull without it, as if much of the life / realism / refinement had been sucked out of the DAC. And this isn't a case of 'coloration' or adding anything to the sound, just revealing more layers and 'truth' about what's already in the recording.
  
 Seeing how the USB input implementation of the Holo Audio Spring DAC is very likely a weak link, I would say the above mentioned necessity to use USB components (signal enhancers / reclocker / converters) has not only to do with an improvement from the extra component itself, but _may _have more to do with the fact that a different input is being used into the Holo Springs; which in the case with the Singxer SU-1 component and the Holo Audio Spring mentioned above, it was using the I2S connection. I did also ask the vendor if just plugging the data stream into a different method would make a big improvement, but he actually seemed to infer it really was the Singxer SU-1 that was doing the heavy lifting. However do note that this DAC has not only USB and I2S, but also optical, coax and AES inputs, and the SU-1 has all of these output options, except for optical as far as I understand. 
  

  
 So I would encourage anybody with these different connections available to do some experimenting and see if any of these connections yields better sonic results without having to have a USB component - however of course, having one is generally the only way to get I2S, optical and coax connections, as far as I understand. As for myself I have only a Wyrd which only enhances the USB connection, so I'd be surprised if that makes as much of a difference as the likes of the Singxer SU-1. There's also the Gustard U12 which has optical, coax, IIS (HDMI) and AES outputs, which I'd be interested to see how it works with this DAC in comparison to the SU-1, and which interface results in better sound. 
  


joseph69 said:


> @DecentLevi
> 
> *"making the Holo Audio Spring no more desirable to me if at all than my $250 Modi 2"*
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting notion - stranger things have happened, but I'd bet it's more of the effect of the SU-1 together with the Holo Audio Spring that does the magic, but OTOH I will probably get around to experimenting what the likes of either of these two USB components can do to ordinary DACs eventually as well. 


rajacat said:


> Did you try the Spring with SPDIF, w/o the SU-1 inserted, in NOS mode? No Usb.


 
 Nope all I had for this was a male USB A to B plug


joseph69 said:


> @DecentLevi
> 
> Also, what source was being used at the meet that  there was such an impressive result with the SU1 in-between?
> Thanks.


 
 It was a Windows laptop with lossless FLAC files via Foobar with the XMOS WASAPI (bit perfect) driver


torq said:


> For what it's worth, while I think the USB input on the Spring DAC is the weakest link it has, the difference between the I2S input vs. the AES or S/PDIF interfaces was very small.  Discernible, but not worth worrying about.  It certainly wasn't a big difference and for me was much smaller than the difference between using the Spring in NOS vs. OS mode.
> 
> I'd use the SU-1 if my source was USB and I'd use the SU-1 if I wanted to do multi-rate DSD, but as it stands my Spring DAC is now connected to an Auralic Aries via AES and that's how it'll be used going forward.


 
 Perhaps the difference between USB and I2S / other inputs is small, but it would seem it's more of the SU-1 that is making the difference here moreso than just an adapter. If yours sounds great, then it's probably the heavy lifting of the Auralic Aries that's making it sound better than the USB connection.
  
 What does using the SU-1 have to do with multi-rate DSD? The vast majority of the time doing this test was with FLAC "PCM" files, to which these "normal" files along with DSD as well, were both where I heard the big improvement when using the SU-1, rather than the component only benefitting DSD mode.
  
 Also FYI I noticed the SU-1 is on sale on Shenzhen Audio now for $349.


----------



## Torq

decentlevi said:


> Perhaps the difference between USB and I2S / other inputs is small, but it would seem it's more of the SU-1 that is making the difference here moreso than just an adapter. If yours sounds great, then it's probably the heavy lifting of the Auralic Aries that's making it sound better than the USB connection.


 
  
 But that's not what I said - I said the difference between I2S and AES and the S/PDIF inputs was very small.  The native USB input is clearly behind those options and is just not a way I'd opt to run this DAC at all.
  
 Beyond that, the SU-1 is a decent DDC (with some odd stability issues), but having tried various inputs and various ways of driving them, it is not, in and of itself, really making that much of a difference compared to just not using the direct USB interface.
  


decentlevi said:


> What does using the SU-1 have to do with multi-rate DSD? The vast majority of the time doing this test was with FLAC "PCM" files, to which these "normal" files along with DSD as well, were both where I heard the big improvement when using the SU-1, rather than the component only benefitting DSD mode.


 
  
 I said there were two cases where I'd use the SU-1.  The first is to avoid using USB directly into the DAC.  That leaves you I2S, AES and S/PDIF interfaces.  Multi-rate DSD generally doesn't work with a standard spec AES or S/PDIF interface (i.e. via DoP on COAX or TOSLINK) because if you stay within spec those interfaces don't have enough bandwidth for more than single-rate DSD operation.  In which case, your remaining option for multi-rate DSD is the I2S interface ... which is where the SU-1 comes back into the equation.


----------



## johnjen

joseph69 said:


> @DecentLevi
> 
> *"making the Holo Audio Spring no more desirable to me if at all than my $250 Modi 2"*
> 
> ...


 
 I'm running a PWD I-II via the RedNet3 and have also heard the SU-1, but not in my setup.
  
 The SU-1 is or can be a remarkable improvement and is definitely less expensive than all but the least expensive MB dac, and even then, a SU-1 should help it as well.
  
 IOW based upon mine and others experience, improvements in the delivery of the digital audio stream to the dac is or can be an even greater jump up in SQ than switching to a different (better?) dac.
 And the flip side of this is, the 'better' the dac the more the SU-1 or any other improvements, made to the stream of digits to the dac, will be.
  
 It seems strange that the delivery system itself, of those pesky digits and bits, is on par with the choice of dacs in terms of overall SQ improvements made by each.
  
 JJ


----------



## greenkiwi

So is the issue that this DAC doesn't have a very good USB processor and reclocker? 

You don't really hear about people saying the yggy's USB is a weak link.

Hopefully they will upgrade the USB processor so that one doesn't need to purchase external transcoders/converters.


----------



## ericr

torq said:


> I'm game.
> 
> I'm going to be hosting a (very) mini-meet at my place in January (or that's how the timing looks right now).
> 
> If local types want to bring their Level 2 or Level 1, we can do back to back comparisons there.  I'll have my Level 3 and Yggdrasil, among other things.


 
  
 OK, this local type just ordered the Level 1 on the Black Friday deal.
  
 Would enjoy joining in on the comparisons.  We could also meet at my office again if it's more convenient.
  
 -E


----------



## Torq

greenkiwi said:


> So is the issue that this DAC doesn't have a very good USB processor and reclocker?
> 
> You don't really hear about people saying the yggy's USB is a weak link.




Its the DAC's weakest input - that doesn't mean it's bad per se.

Personally, I do not use use USB with any DAC because it's been, in my (extensive, actually) experience, the weakest input in all cases and I have several options for using non-USB options which make it moot for me. And, while the Spring DAC, like most others, sounds better via it's other inputs it's just a bit weaker in its USB interface than I am used to (which could simply mean that it's other inputs are unusually good).

This really isn't that hard ... 

And Yggdrasil's designer is on record as saying that USB is currently its weakest input. Again, not that it sounds bad, just that it is not the best way to drive the thing if you have other options.


----------



## Torq

Congrats!

And I'll make sure to keep you in the loop as we get closer to setting it up!


----------



## Torq

ericr said:


> OK, this local type just ordered the Level 1 on the Black Friday deal.
> 
> Would enjoy joining in on the comparisons.  We could also meet at my office again if it's more convenient.
> 
> -E




Congrats!

And I'll make sure to keep you in the loop as we get closer to setting it up! Appreciate the offer of doing it at your office, but in this case we'll have more space at my place!


----------



## lukeap69

torq said:


> Congrats!
> 
> And I'll make sure to keep you in the loop as we get closer to setting it up! Appreciate the offer of doing it at your office, but in this case we'll have more space at my place!




If this pushes through, there will be Levels 1 to 3 in your meet. This is the besy chance to get the 3 levels compared. Very nice.


----------



## Robert McAdam

> So is the issue that this DAC doesn't have a very good USB processor and reclocker?


 


> Its the DAC's weakest input - that doesn't mean it's bad per se. Torq


 
  
 I agree with Torq generally USB is and has been problematic as a means of data transfer especially for Audio.
  
 Hence all manner of devices now available as fix its. Intona and Regen to name two, let alone separate power devices on the USB 5v. More work is required by engineers and I feel the answer will need to be part of the DAC manufacture and not another box(band aid). 
  
 It does disappoint me that the best Holo Spring input soundwise the I2s also requires an extra box namely the Singxer SU1 and cable.
  
 I guess it does(Holo) give one choices for inputs and more than most Dac's.


----------



## ericr

torq said:


> Congrats!
> 
> And I'll make sure to keep you in the loop as we get closer to setting it up! Appreciate the offer of doing it at your office, but in this case we'll have more space at my place!




Thanks!

And likely more comfortable at your place as well.


----------



## colour97

i am also waiting for my L3. last week i went to hk rockna agency to try hydra z because i want to pair it with spring. i had audition rockna dac （hkd 80000）with and without hydra z.in fact, with hydra, the sound had obviously improvement for 80k dac., especially at i2s port. the agency told me that hydra's usb is the same as at rockna.
when hydra usb is working, rockna usb workload is reduced and improve the sound significantly. i am not so sure this is right.


----------



## joseph69

I pulled the plug on the L3 and decided to stick with my PWD-ll for now using AoIP which I have no SQ issues with in any way and feel no need for any SQ improvements to my ears at this time. I also don't feel the need to purchase another piece of equipment to maximize the Spring (even though it was already mentioned that the L3 sounds fine without the SU-1) and especially after buying the Bridge-ll so I could run JRiver via AoIP for my PWD-ll. I'm going to wait for more impressions between all three levels and enjoy what I have like I've been doing. Looking forward to reading more impressions/comparisons on all of the Spring DAC levels then I'll make my decision from there. Enjoy!


----------



## Gibraltar

colour97 said:


> i am also waiting for my L3. last week i went to hk rockna agency to try hydra z because i want to pair it with spring. i had audition rockna dac （hkd 80000）with and without hydra z.in fact, with hydra, the sound had obviously improvement for 80k dac., especially at i2s port. the agency told me that hydra's usb is the same as at rockna.
> when hydra usb is working, rockna usb workload is reduced and improve the sound significantly. i am not so sure this is right.


 
  
 Have you compared the Hydra Z to the SU-1? I found the SU-1 was a significant improvement over the built in USB on my K-01 (which I'll admit is several years old so a bit out of date).


----------



## signature8

I am using I2s out from my SU-1 to feed the Holo Spring Level 3 DAC. Would it make sense or provide any improvement if I inserted an Intona, and/or Uptone Regen in the USB chain between the computer and the SU-1?


----------



## Tboooe

signature8 said:


> I am using I2s out from my SU-1 to feed the Holo Spring Level 3 DAC. Would it make sense or provide any improvement if I inserted an Intona, and/or Uptone Regen in the USB chain between the computer and the SU-1?


 
 I believe Tim at Kitsune personally uses an Intona between SU-1 and Spring DAC.


----------



## mtoc

Actually SSRC and ASRC both should be turned off if possible, this is why I like pro DAs, they have a lot options, but they don't use fancy chips. No one's perfect.


----------



## joseph69

Back in the queue for the L3 with the SU1 as well this time!


----------



## rajacat

joseph69 said:


> Back in the queue for the L3 with the SU1 as well this time!


 
 Did order from Kitsune or Shenzhen? Waiting for this DAC to ship is torture. I hope that there aren't any bottlenecks that will cause delays.


----------



## joseph69

rajacat said:


> Did order from Kitsune or Shenzhen? Waiting for this DAC to ship is torture. I hope that there aren't any bottlenecks that will cause delays.


 
 I ordered from Tim (Holo U.S.A.) who provedes excellent communication to his customers.
 I was told between January/February (because I lost my place in the queue due to a cancellation) which isn't too long. Otherwise I was told January prior to canceling.


----------



## rajacat

joseph69 said:


> I ordered from Tim (Holo U.S.A.) who provedes excellent communication to his customers.
> I was told between January/February (because I lost my place in the queue due to a cancellation) which isn't too long. Otherwise I was told January prior to canceling.


 
 I went for the L2 and ordered from Shenzhen. I noticed that the L1 is back in stock at Kitsune. Shenzhen is out of stock of all models but will take orders. For the L2, the Jensen caps are the main cause of the delay.


----------



## joseph69

rajacat said:


> I went for the L2 and ordered from Shenzhen. I noticed that the L1 is back in stock at Kitsune. Shenzhen is out of stock of all models but will take orders. For the L2, the Jensen caps are the main cause of the delay.


 
 The caps are the cause for the delay for the level 2/3.


----------



## Robert McAdam

I live in New Zealand, what is the web site for Holo China?


----------



## joseph69

joseph69 said:


> Back in the queue for the L3 with the SU1 as well this time!


 
 Back in the queue for the KTE with the SU1 as well this time!


----------



## mordicai

I sold my r2r Gimby and upgraded to the x20. The improvement was awesome! I absolutely love this DAC. Ric's mod's made things significantly better( level one only).
 It's sad to see the outright hostility Im reading here about this fabulous DAC. Everyone hears differently and has a different stack. What works for one, does not work for all.


----------



## joseph69

mordicai said:


> I sold my r2r Gimby and upgraded to the x20. The improvement was awesome! I absolutely love this DAC. Ric's mod's made things significantly better( level one only).
> *It's sad to see the outright hostility Im reading here about this fabulous DAC. Everyone hears differently and has a different stack. What works for one, does not work for all.*


 
 What makes it sad? I haven't heard the KTE (yet) but have you? Also, you obviously took chance with the R2R Gimby and didn't care for it. Then went for Ric's upgrades to the X20 to find out if it would work with your stack and found it did, no?
 One needs to buy and try in their own stack to hear how it works just like you did and most all of us do who can't demo.
 Enjoy!


----------



## Robert McAdam

Have modified loads of components in the past but often on resale the purchaser has had me remove them.
  
 I'm over it now. Honestly buy the right product first even if it costs more. Most tweaks are icing on the cake. The cake is more important.


----------



## Insidious Meme

@bimmer100 It's just a sad fact of reality that confusion sometimes ensues, and drama finds you. I will hopefully be able to listen to a level 3 Kitsune in the near future.


----------



## kolia

robert mcadam said:


> I live in New Zealand, what is the web site for Holo China?




I've been in contact with wildismaudio@yahoo.com.hk at https://wildism-audio-hk.myshopify.com
He answers quickly and offers three years warranty.


----------



## ericr

Ordered the Spring DAC Level 1 from kitsunehifi.com (the USA distributor for Holo Audio) during their Black Friday weekend sale. The customer service was excellent and even though it was a long holiday weekend my questions were answered quicky and thoughtfully.

Hopefully mine comes in time to put under the Christmas tree for myself.


----------



## lukeap69

kolia said:


> I've been in contact with wildismaudio@yahoo.com.hk at https://wildism-audio-hk.myshopify.com
> He answers quickly and offers three years warranty.


 
 Yup, 3 years warranty from Wildism. Very quick to respond as well especially via Whatsapp.


----------



## Peaceofmind

Got my Kitsune Holo Spring DAC level 3 today and using my wife's favorite radio station to break-in the DAC. The Auralic Aries is feeding the DAC using Wireworld Starlight 7 AES. The passive preamp (Sonic Euphoria) and the class D amp (D-Sonic) are both fully balance designs, cables are Van Den Hul balance Second. All power cords are connected to a Hydra power conditioner.

The Holo Spring DAC is replacing my humble Resonessence Labs Herus DAC.


----------



## gr8soundz

peaceofmind said:


> The Holo Spring DAC is replacing my humble Resonessence Labs Herus DAC.


 
  
 Nice setup.
  
 Would love to hear your impressions of the Holo vs the tiny powerhouse Herus.
  
 The Herus+ is still on my radar due to it's size/performance ratio. R2R dacs like the Holo are on that list as well but would be good to know how the ESS 9010 in the Herus measures up.


----------



## Peaceofmind

The ESS chip in the Herus still gets on my nerves after only a few hour of listening which is why I was looking at R2R DACs. The Holo Spring DAC L3, from a cold start this morning sounded punchier, quicker more extended on the top end than the Herus. After a few hours of play time, the Holo DAC got more mellow, which I like a lot. Right now, I'm only using my wife internet radio station on the Aries as back ground music to break-in the DAC, as I have read, one or two weeks is needed. I can easily say the Holo Spring DAC does sound better than the humble Herus, no surprise there. Looking forward to hearing the Holo Spring DAC as it breaks in and fully develops.


----------



## rajacat

peaceofmind said:


> Got my Kitsune Holo Spring DAC level 3 today and using my wife's favorite radio station to break-in the DAC. The Auralic Aries is feeding the DAC using Wireworld Starlight 7 AES. The passive preamp (Sonic Euphoria) and the class D amp (D-Sonic) are both fully balance designs, cables are Van Den Hul balance Second. All power cords are connected to a Hydra power conditioner.
> 
> 
> 
> The Holo Spring DAC is replacing my humble Resonessence Labs Herus DAC.






Beautiful rig! I think the Spring is a very attractive DAC. It has an unique look that is very classy without being flashy. The copper sides are anodized aluminum aren't they? I would think real copper would be cost prohibitive. If it's real copper, that would be very impressive indeed.


I like that it's a heavy DAC (8.5 kg) that you can hang heavy power cords and interconnects on without disturbing it. 


It also looks like they didn't skimp on the footers. They appear to be a set of three plastic balls contained in a base so that the unit is resting on the balls.


----------



## rigo

What is the height with the footers? Can anyone with one check? Thanks.


----------



## Torq

rigo said:


> What is the height with the footers? Can anyone with one check? Thanks.


 
  
 I'll measure mine when I get home later today.


----------



## mscott58

torq said:


> I'll measure mine when I get home later today.


 
 Sweet. I had assumed the measurement on the site was with footers, but that might not be a correct assumption. When you measure could you also see how big the gap is, that is now talk the footers take the bottom of the Spring off the ground? Cheers


----------



## kolia

lukeap69 said:


> If this pushes through, there will be Levels 1 to 3 in your meet. This is the besy chance to get the 3 levels compared. Very nice.



AFAIC I'll wait till the results are known. I'm not convinced that L3 is the best value. Thanks in advance to those doing A/B/C comparisons.


----------



## rigo

I never know if the height measurements that are stated on the product pages include the feet.


----------



## Robert McAdam

> Dimensions: 430mm (W) * 300mm (L) * 55mm (high, without machined feet), machined feet are 12mm additional
> Net Weight: 8.5 kg
> Gross Weight: 9.5 kg


 
 This from wildism-audio-hk web site.


----------



## rigo

robert mcadam said:


> This from wildism-audio-hk web site.




I wish they were all that specific. That helps thanks.


----------



## rajacat

rigo said:


> I wish they were all that specific. That helps thanks.


 
 It'd be great if the designer had his own website where detailed photos and specs would be available for potential buyers. Most of the online sales sites are somewhat rudimentary, don't supply much info.


----------



## ZGojira

This look like it could be the official site: http://www.holo-audio.com/
  
 However, it is all in chinese 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, so it might not be very useful...


----------



## rajacat

Thanks, I got Goggle to translate it. You gotta laugh at some of the "translation".


----------



## ZGojira

I should repeat 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Given the url, I *think *that this is the official site. I could be wrong... so usual caution be taken


----------



## rgs9200m

How much heat does the Holo Spring generate (subjectively) when in use and when in idle/standby (if it has a standby mode)? Is it cooler than the Yggy? Thanks.


----------



## joseph69

rgs9200m said:


> How much heat does the Holo Spring generate (subjectively) when in use and when in idle/standby (if it has a standby mode)? Is it cooler than the Yggy? Thanks.


 
 IIRC I believe read that it does have a stand by mode which just keeps the critical circuits, caps, power supply warm, but cuts off the output signals…please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Torq

rgs9200m said:


> How much heat does the Holo Spring generate (subjectively) when in use and when in idle/standby (if it has a standby mode)? Is it cooler than the Yggy? Thanks.


 
  
 [Modified post: Quote of deleted post removed]
  
 Using a properly calibrated IR thermometer, and with both units currently in the same rack and playing the same music and with the room at 20℃, Yggdrasil is at 31.7℃ and the Spring DAC is at 29.4℃.  For those of you that don't speak metric ... that translates to a 68℉ room, with Yggdrasil at 89℉ and the Spring DAC at 85℉ (numbers are rounded; did the math in my head).
  
 As further clarification .... both units are fully warmed up and are both left powered on continuously.  I don't use the stand-by mode on the Spring DAC either, though I probably would if I was heading out of town for a protracted period.


----------



## gr8soundz

torq said:


> Using a properly calibrated IR thermometer, and with both units currently in the same rack and playing the same music and with the room at 20℃, Yggdrasil is at 31.7℃ and the Spring DAC is at 29.4℃.  For those of you that don't speak metric ... that translates to a 68℉ room, with Yggdrasil at 89℉ and the Spring DAC at 85℉ (numbers are rounded; did the math in my head).
> 
> As further clarification .... both units are fully warmed up and are both left powered on continuously.  I don't use the stand-by mode on the Spring DAC either, though I probably would if I was heading out of town for a protracted period.


 
  
 Thanks for those numbers. Both are cooler than I expected; imagined I'd see temps closer to 40C for always-on dacs of that size.


----------



## joseph69

So if you guys are leaving your DAC's continuously powered on, and not in stand by mode, are the only differences what I stated above?


----------



## Robert McAdam

I leave everything on DAC, preamp, Active speakers and subs. I do turn my computer off though.Honestly the power draw is not much.


----------



## joseph69

Thanks.
 The thing is stand by mode keeps everything warm without leaving the unit continuously on. So why not use it in this mode which also turns the outputs off?


----------



## Torq

joseph69 said:


> Thanks.
> The thing is stand by mode keeps everything warm without leaving the unit continuously on. So why not use it in this mode which also turns the outputs off?


 

 For me?
  
 I'm just accustomed to leaving my sources on.
  
 If the tubes in my amps didn't have very definitely limited life-spans, I'd leave those buggers on as well.
  
 Fundamentally it's down to having one less thing to think about and one less button to push.


----------



## Robert McAdam

> If the tubes in my amps didn't have very definitely limited life-spans, I'd leave those buggers on as well.


 
 Gosh you must be in the vinyl camp what are you doing here?


----------



## Robert McAdam

No I'm sorry what you need to do is buy valves ex defence force and just change them when they die. Yes sad to say valves do sound better on and warm. The biggest failure of components is at cold turn ON. And I do like valves just can't be bothered with failures at inopportune times and slow degradation in sound as they die slowly. Mind you all components are dying slowly just some take longer.


----------



## Torq

robert mcadam said:


> Gosh you must be in the vinyl camp what are you doing here?


 

 Now that is a question to which there is no simple answer.
  
 I do, as it happens, enjoy vinyl.  My vinyl rig here is fairly modest (Pro-Ject RPM 9.2 Evo w/ Dynavector 10x5), but my LP collection remains substantial (about 12,000 LPs in total, most of which are back in the UK still - I only have a few hundred here).
  
 But the vast majority of my listening is digital these days.
  
 The turntable gets used when I want to l listen to something "as an album" ... and have the time to just sit an listen.
  
 My turntable resides in my speaker rig, which does not have any tubes in it at all ... those are reserved for my headphone amps.


----------



## Robert McAdam

You no what I didn't realise this is a headphone site something I'm avoiding(headphones that is) as I love live open sound and yet we have some very good responses on this forum. Enjoying it and going to buy the Holo.


----------



## despinos

I need some advice:
  
 I have this chain:
  
 SDD drive (music storage) --(usb)--> Auralic Aries---(AES)--->Holo Dac ---Musifcal fidelity Integrated Amp---> Speakers
  
 I see various  people are also using the Aries streamer + Holo Dac.
  
 This question is about how better feed the Auralic. I use external hard drive directly connected by short USB cable. Any suggestion to upgrade this connection? (I already have the Uptone regen, but think I will need much time to evaluate if that makes a difference or not if its is connected before the Auralic). I also have a complete HTPC at same location, but would rather be able to listen to music with the PC off. Also have a (fanless) NAS I'm not using now, if that may help.
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## despinos

A suggestion for HOLO audio about the screen dimming:
  
Dimming the screen is a nice feature, but it really is a PIA having to press the dimm button SIXTEEN TIMES to go from full intensity to screen off. 
Most of the intermediate intensity values are hardly distinguisable, anyway.
  
I suggest just 3 values (or 4 values at most), such as full light, half dimm and "screen off" modes


----------



## kolia

despinos said:


> A suggestion for HOLO audio about the screen dimming:
> 
> Dimming the screen is a nice feature, but it really is a PIA having to press the dimm button SIXTEEN TIMES to go from full intensity to screen off.
> Most of the intermediate intensity values are hardly distinguisable, anyway.
> ...



What I would suggest is to have a remote control with direct code access (aka discrete codes) preferably over IP. IR would make it, in that case I use iTach modules. I have a fairly complex system, all the remotes are done from a tablet and specific software. I just don't understand why a remote control is not implemented in this unit.


----------



## bimmer100

despinos said:


> A suggestion for HOLO audio about the screen dimming:
> 
> Dimming the screen is a nice feature, but it really is a PIA having to press the dimm button SIXTEEN TIMES to go from full intensity to screen off.
> Most of the intermediate intensity values are hardly distinguisable, anyway.
> ...


 
 I will discuss this with Jeff. Never bothered me as I set it and forget it. 
  
  
 the first 3-4 pressing of the button don't do much, as the values are not significant enough.


----------



## despinos

If anyone bought the Holo from Shenzhen audio and is concerned with their general 1 year warranty for all products, I asked them if this applies to the Holo dac, to all versions. I just got their reply this morning. I would keep this message as a reference for future warranty claims, just in case:



-------

Hi David,

Good day.
Yes,Holo audio product have 3 year warranty.

Best Regards
Kerwin
Shenzhenaudio


----------



## Peaceofmind

One suggestion for the upcoming Kitsune May DAC with built in passive resisters based volume control, experiment with auto-formers instead. Using a single resister to attenuate volume can be very revealing but also stark, auto-formers to me sound more layback.
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/11/dave-slagle-myemia-custom-silver.html


----------



## rajacat

I think that integrating a LDR (light dependent resistors) board into the Spring DAC would be a super transparent combo. 
  
 http://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/


----------



## rajacat

despinos said:


> If anyone bought the Holo from Shenzhen audio and is concerned with their general 1 year warranty for all products, I asked them if this applies to the Holo dac, to all versions. I just got their reply this morning. I would keep this message as a reference for future warranty claims, just in case:
> 
> 
> Hi David,
> ...


 
 I made the same inquiry and got the same answer. They're reasonably communicative despite obvious difficulties with English. As with many online dealers, their website is somewhat crude and doesn't give much product info.


----------



## mscott58

My monoblock tube amps in my 2-channel setup put off 600W of heat (they have 12 tubes per side). Now that's warm! In fact I don't have to heat the room in the winter when I have them powered up. Cheers


----------



## rgs9200m

mscott58 said:


> My monoblock tube amps in my 2-channel setup put off 600W of heat (they have 12 tubes per side). Now that's warm! In fact I don't have to heat the room in the winter when I have them powered up. Cheers


 
 Awesome. I once had to sell a Pass X350 amp because of that. The room had the thermostat for the house so the heat would not fire up and the rest of the house would freeze.


----------



## despinos

Hello,
  
 I would like to know if the Holo DAC is sensible to the location temperature.
  
 For example, if it's located near a hot source (e.g. big amplifier) and the HOLO gets non-homogeneously heated, would that affect the sound quality?
  
 In particular, I  wonder if the r2r ladder is sensible to non-uniform external heating.
  
 Thanks!!


----------



## Torq

despinos said:


> Hello,
> 
> I would like to know if the Holo DAC is sensible to the location temperature.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Assuming you mean "sensitive" not "sensible" ...
  
 Unless you run the thing with the case removed, no ...
  
 Even then it's doubtful.
  
 And I thought USB-nervosa was bad ...


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I couldn't let a lvl 3 kit just sit in it's box for more than a week so i temporarily have mine in plugged in for testing. Not a big fan of the Grado out of this setup (treble energy) but I'm guessing my full rig with he560/mdr-z1r and audiogd amp will take this to new levels. The extra details even over the Hugo is impressive.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Excellent synergy with the Garage amp and Sony Z1R


----------



## DecentLevi

Helo all, just checking in - I'm gonna hold out for any detailed comparisons between levels 1-3 before making any decisions, and for now just order the Singxer SU-1 USB reclocker / converter to see how much more fidelity I may be able to squeeze out of my existing DACs with it until then.
  
 Looks like the $350 special isn't available anymore so would you recommend ordering it from TaoBao?


----------



## Torq

decentlevi said:


> Helo all, just checking in - I'm gonna hold out for any detailed comparisons between levels 1-3 before making any decisions, and for now just order the Singxer SU-1 USB reclocker / converter to see how much more fidelity I may be able to squeeze out of my existing DACs with it until then.
> 
> Looks like the $350 special isn't available anymore so would you recommend ordering it from TaoBao?


 

 If your profile is current, there's pretty much NO chance that adding an SU-1 is going to be improve your existing DAC to the point that just selling it, and then adding the $350-$400 you'd spend on the DDC to your budge and buying a BETTER DAC would get you.
  
 Interface/re-clocker/DDC differences are last-few-percent tweaks.
  
 Until you've got something like Gungnir/Yggdrasil, the Metrum, PS Audio or Holo Audio units, just forget the all the USB/DDC/Clock nervosa nonsense.  You'll have a cheaper, simpler, better sounding system as a result.


----------



## DecentLevi

No I was planning to get the Singxer SU-1 in preparation for the Holo Audio Spring, and in the meantime see if it spruce's up my current DACs or not (X12 or Mimby)


----------



## DecentLevi

USB signal cleaners are in fact able to make quite audible differences in low-mid tier DAC however, as I heard a fairly sizeable improvement with with current DACs with the Wyrd. Was thinking to try Wyrd + SU-1 into my DAC's


----------



## Torq

decentlevi said:


> No I was planning to get the Singxer SU-1 in preparation for the Holo Audio Spring, and in the meantime see if it spruce's up my current DACs or not (X12 or Mimby)


 

 If you're ditching your current DAC(s) anyway, then there's no harm in it.
  
 The Holo Audio unit will definitely benefit with the SU-1 (via I2S) vs. native USB.
  
 Just don't expect the X12 or Mimby to sound as good as DACs costing $400 more, respectively, just because you added the SU-1 to the chain.


----------



## Torq

decentlevi said:


> USB signal cleaners are in fact able to make quite audible differences in low-mid tier DAC however, as I heard a fairly sizeable improvement with with current DACs with the Wyrd. Was thinking to try Wyrd + SU-1 into my DAC's


 

 Not to the degree that just buying a better DAC will achieve.
  
 And a Wyrd + SU-1 is pretty much a declaration that you're affected by a hard-core case of USB-nervosa.
  
 Personally, I'd take that MIMBY over the X12.
  
 And I wouldn't spend a dime on USB "fixes" for either of them, since "useful" improvements to either can be had for less than adding good DDC.


----------



## DecentLevi

Sure I don't expect them to sound as good as this new flagship DAC, just wanting to see what can be had. Also I'll be trying I2S and coax with these to see if these help anything. Yup I was one who confirmed first-hand a few weeks ago that the Holo Spring DAC enormously benefits from the likes of the SU-1 via HDMI/I2S as opposed to USB direct


----------



## Energy

If you're really keen on using a SU-1 I have one for $325 shipped. I haven't even touched it.
  
 But to be more on topic, I agree with Torq regarding the USB-nervosa.
  
 Comparing S/PDIF to USB I hear about a 4-6% improvement in sound quality improvements (S/PDIF>USB). Comparing i2S to S/PDIF maybe another 2-4%. It really isn't much as long as you have a source with a decent output.


----------



## mav52

I'm really interested in this DAC (the Level 3). Its right in the financial ball park  I need to replace my clinical sounding Mytex.  I've been looking at the Yggdrasil also but I do enjoy DSD.


----------



## Sherwood

torq said:


> And I thought USB-nervosa was bad ...




This isn't necessarily a ridiculous question, in all circumstances. DACs which don't rely on oven crystals are theoretically sensitive to temperature. Depends how hot and how localized, of course.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Have you guys every heard the focusrite rednet units using lan as a transport? It confirms the usb nervosa is a real thing or that usb is limited in my experience and opinion.


----------



## BlakeT

The USB inputs on DAC's are almost always inferior to spidf/ AES EBU /I2S inputs.  People keep wanting the usb input to be the best so they don't have to deal with usb converters, but sorry folks, it is not going to happen.  
  
 Heck, ask Berkeley what input is best on their Reference DAC.  Guess what?  They still recommend using a stand alone usb converter.
  
 People just need to get over it.  You want good sound?  Don't use the USB input on your DAC.
  
 The Singxer SU-1 converter is not some miracle product.   It simply allows the user to avoid the inferior usb input on this DAC and others.


----------



## Torq

soundsgoodtome said:


> Have you guys every heard the focusrite rednet units using lan as a transport? It confirms the usb nervosa is a real thing or that usb is limited in my experience and opinion.


 

 I did the RedNet 3 for a while.  That's being swapped for a D16 AES, so the same thing in a slightly different form.  But I've found that any AOIP solution, be it Dante, Ravenna or something proprietary, yields very useful gains over USB.


----------



## Currawong

There was some discussion in the DAVE thread where someone used the Rednet with a CD player and it sounded the same. It appears that they have excellent AES outputs and it has nothing to do with not being USB or using ethernet. If the _output_ of the transport is free of noise and any other issue-causing signal distortion then anything else about the transport doesn't matter.


----------



## Torq

currawong said:


> There was some discussion in the DAVE thread where someone used the Rednet with a CD player and it sounded the same. It appears that they have excellent AES outputs and it has nothing to do with not being USB or using ethernet. If the _output_ of the transport is free of noise and any other issue-causing signal distortion then anything else about the transport doesn't matter.


 

 USB is *always* going to have higher noise on the receiving side than something simpler, like AES.  It's just much more complicated, and there's no clever way around that short of taking USB outside the DAC and feeding the component something simpler.  Doesn't matter what your transport is, there's no real way around this.
  
 CD transport vs. AOIP/streamer will come down to proper AES/S/PDIF implementation and either solid clocks on the source, or a properly re-clocking DAC.  No reason they can't sound identical, but short of read-ahead-and-buffer CD implementations (e.g. Meridian's Reference Transport), streamers are easier to get good, stable, performance out of.


----------



## Robert McAdam

> The Singxer SU-1 converter is not some miracle product. Blake T


 
 Would you suggest this converter is the best one for the money at this point in time? Have you compared to others? 
  
 I see you use the Berkeley Alpha USB, which is not a cheap converter but probably a very good one. I have just read up on this one.


----------



## Currawong

Spoiler: Somewhat OT reply to Torq about USB boards






torq said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > There was some discussion in the DAVE thread where someone used the Rednet with a CD player and it sounded the same. It appears that they have excellent AES outputs and it has nothing to do with not being USB or using ethernet. If the _output_ of the transport is free of noise and any other issue-causing signal distortion then anything else about the transport doesn't matter.
> ...


 

 Yup, what I meant was, it doens't matter if it's a USB to AES converter, or an ethernet to AES system, it's the quality of the final output at the AES socket of the device that matters. I do know a manufacturer that reckons they have managed to get an internal USB board to sound as good as the AES or S/PDIF input on their DAC, but they haven't released the board yet. I don't believe it's impossible, especially after owning the Singxer F-1 board.


----------



## despinos

sherwood said:


> This isn't necessarily a ridiculous question, in all circumstances. DACs which don't rely on oven crystals are theoretically sensitive to temperature. Depends how hot and how localized, of course.


 
  
 I agree with that, though are wondering about  the R2R ladder instead.
 The R2R ladder, which is at the heart of this DAC, is just a bunch of resistors, with very tight resistance values.
 The value of resistance changes with temperature, which means that if you heat that resistor array unevenly, you may get resistors that increase their resistance more than others. Some calculations would be required to check when this becomes significant. Some designers (e.g. Soekris) offer their R2R designs choosing resistors with very tight tolerance. for what I have read, other designers like Jeff (Holo Audio) do not rely so much in the tolerance of each individual resistor, but take more in account other factors, such as the effect (on resistance) of connections/solderings, which may be of more effect than choosing the resistors with the tighter tolerance. I also suspect myself than (uneven) heating of the R2R array (or/and taking in account the resistance of solderings and conductors)  can become more important than going for the most expensive resistors.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

If you're speaking of the run of the mill usual usb inputs of Dacs then there is no doubt that aes will be cleaner due to its isolation properties as well as the transport or CD players capabilities of an output signal.

Where the problem comes in for usb is the source computer on top of the afterthought usb input on dacs including the usb input on totl gear using regular usb receivers (yggy, Pagoda, master 7, etc).

As for usb vs lan transports, the lan transports even using a lower spec clock imo sounds better than a usb with femto clocks while all using aes/ebu out to dacs. Read stock rednet3 vs f1 with wyrd in front of it. The problem imo is coming out of the computer and software management of data on top of the power related issues of usb. Lan on the otherhand is just solid long as the settings are correct, which may be why it sounds better (due to the amount of manipulation you can make to the signal in tweaking).

If you've not tried it (Focusrite R3 or D16) yet or anyone on the head-fi crew, I highly highly recommend you or Jude or both get onboard to test one and hear for yourselves - specially if using a computer as a source. 



currawong said:


> Spoiler: Somewhat OT reply to Torq about USB boards
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, what I meant was, it doens't matter if it's a USB to AES converter, or an ethernet to AES system, it's the quality of the final output at the AES socket of the device that matters. I do know a manufacturer that reckons they have managed to get an internal USB board to sound as good as the AES or S/PDIF input on their DAC, but they haven't released the board yet. I don't believe it's impossible, especially after owning the Singxer F-1 board.


----------



## mav52

Is the display adjustable can you dim the display


----------



## lukeap69

mav52 said:


> Is the display adjustable can you dim the display




Yes and in many steps...


----------



## mav52

lukeap69 said:


> Yes and in many steps...


 
 Thank you, one more question what about the digit display size, can you make the numbers smaller in the display window ?


----------



## lukeap69

mav52 said:


> Thank you, one more question what about the digit display size, can you make the numbers smaller in the display window ?




Not the I know of. Holo made sure the display can be read from 1km away.


----------



## joseph69

I actually like the large display.


----------



## rajacat

despinos said:


> I agree with that, though are wondering about  the R2R ladder instead.
> The R2R ladder, which is at the heart of this DAC, is just a bunch of resistors, with very tight resistance values.
> The value of resistance changes with temperature, which means that if you heat that resistor array unevenly, you may get resistors that increase their resistance more than others. Some calculations would be required to check when this becomes significant. Some designers (e.g. Soekris) offer their R2R designs choosing resistors with very tight tolerance. for what I have read, other designers like Jeff (Holo Audio) do not rely so much in the tolerance of each individual resistor, but take more in account other factors, such as the effect (on resistance) of connections/solderings, which may be of more effect than choosing the resistors with the tighter tolerance. I also suspect myself than (uneven) heating of the R2R array (or/and taking in account the resistance of solderings and conductors)  can become more important than going for the most expensive resistors.


 
 Perhaps this is where "linear compensation" comes into play. The additional R2R ladder will compensate for small changes in the resistors' value caused by heat or less than optimum tolerances.
  
*"There’s an additional R2R ladder in the Spring DAC, it compensates the main R2R ladder. It works like trimming, but trimming is to change the resistor value. This additional R2R ladder is digitally controlled and will accurately compensate the resistor tolerance. For example, the MSB of 16 bits should have the value of 32768, but due to tolerance, it represents 32700 in real world results. Then that additional R2R ladder will compensate 68 into it. Thus it now becomes 32700 + 68 = 32768.  What this means is that it’s likely the most precise Discrete DAC on the market with near flawless linearity, lowest THD and highest SNR of any NOS DAC."*
  
*quote from Kitsune website*


----------



## Peaceofmind

I now like running my Holo Spring DAC with the display completely off. The power supply is now only concern with the power needs of the R2R DAC.


----------



## guymrob

bimmer100 said:


> I'm not sure I fully follow what you're asking, but depends what mode you are in. My favorite, personally, is the NOS mode. As it's pure and no OVERSAMPLING is done. As even though the SRC in the spring is good, i still prefer purity.  So some users are using the MicroRendu and HQ player to send DSD256 or DSD512 to the spring over usb.  And some users are using the SU-1 with the Spring and sending DSD256 via the i2s hdmi port (psaudio standard)
> 
> two sections of the dac, one discretely processes PCM, the other processes DSD (not a conversion) and similar to the HQ player hardware demo but on a scale of improvement of many multitudes.
> 
> ...


 

 ​I've some questions after I've auditioned Holo Spring DAC
  
 In NOS mode: How do the DAC takes care of the noise central around 44.1kHz sampling frequency? If I understand correctly, over-sampling(8x typical) is supposed to the shift the sampling noise to a higher band and make analogue/digital filtering less aggressive. If such noise is not filter out, it may get into power amps; this may cause instability and sometimes over-heating.
  
 In OS mode, what is the over-sampling factor applied for PCM and DSD? 2x, 4x or 8x of its native sample?
  
 Conversion mode: OS PCM mode means works like OS mode for PCM but DSD is converted to PCM on the fly?
                               OS DSD mode means works like OS mode for DSD but PCM is converted to DSD on the fly?
  
 Thank you for your quick reply


----------



## WNBC

Spring DAC KTE arrived this week.  Thanks to Tim at Kitsune.  Arrived exactly in the timeframe promised, luckily I got in on the batch before the big holiday rush.  DAC has been running for less than 12 hours and I must say that I'm quite impressed.  From what I understand, the sound is going to mature even more during break-in, but from just what I am hearing now, it's a keeper.  Too soon to be analytical, but one knows when he or she hears something special and this is it for me.  Plenty of detail and a dynamic, natural presentation.  It will take time to dissect it with any justice, but I know I like it   For now, it is computer to Intona to SU-1 to I2S of Spring.   
  
 Pics for fun....


----------



## comzee

wnbc said:


> For now, it is computer to Intona to SU-1 to I2S of Spring.


 
 I see that Pioneer v7200 , I have one too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Also, I owned Intona and still own SU-1. I think the SU-1 is a fantastic product. From my own A/B and personal opinion of testing, I don't think the Intona does anything. When I used it with my SU-1 I didn't hear a difference, maybe even slightly worse... ymmv.
  
 +1 for the Elear. Does that compliment the HD800 well?


----------



## WNBC

I have been lazy about CD transports and just keep on using the Pioneer when I want to get away from a computer source. 
  
 With the Gumby and now Spring, I've always had the Intona in play as it has been highly regarded by many.  I should get around to taking it out of the path to see whether there is a positive or negative effect.  There are several options out there, Intona is my first attempt at USB galvonic isolation.  Maybe others can chime in as well because I'm sure there are plenty of users of the Intona in this thread.  
  
 Elear does in fact complement the HD800.  To me, the Elear is an intimate (relative small soundstage width), warm, transparent and detailed headphone.  I like its tone as well.  I am on the fence about keeping it.  It has its well-documented faults.  If it was a $500-600 headphone it would be a no brainer to keep.  At $1000 I feel obligated to love it.  I did in fact have it up for sale, but buyer didn't end up having enough funds and I haven't reposted it.  The Spring is making me re-think selling it as I like the pairing.  TH-900 might be the perfect complement to the HD800 though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  
  
 Quote:


comzee said:


> I see that Pioneer v7200 , I have one too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## WNBC

dreaded double post


----------



## Energy

> There are several options out there, Intona is my first attempt at USB galvonic isolation.  Maybe others can chime in as well because I'm sure there are plenty of users of the Intona in this thread.


 
  
 Singxer SU-1 already offers galvanic isolation does it not?


----------



## joseph69

energy said:


> Singxer SU-1 already offers galvanic isolation does it not?


 
 Kitsune Hi-Fi/Holo Audio USA:
  
 " Full isolation technology (ground isolation), the use of 150Mbps full-chip isolation, interference can be completely isolated from the PC".


----------



## WNBC

A suggestion was made to me try both in tandem. When everything is well burned in I can pull the Intona from the chain and hear whether there is a positive or negative effect. If not needed I can use it elsewhere or sell it.

 Edit: looking over my past discussion about this topic, the level of isolation from the SU-1 is definitely not on the same level as the Intona and because I use a laptop as my source there _could_ be _some_ added benefit to having the Intona in play.  Desktop computers might not receive any extra benefit.  I knew this would be more of a slight tweak and maybe not noticeable at all depending on how much noise is coming from my Macbook USB port.  More of a small tweak item than necessity.  
  
 Thanks for the reminder guys as I might have just left it in the chain indefinitely because I had forgotten the details behind the purchase.  I'll investigate this more when the DAC is at full potential.


----------



## Articnoise

wnbc said:


> A suggestion was made to me try both in tandem. When everything is well burned in I can pull the Intona from the chain and hear whether there is a positive or negative effect. If not needed I can use it elsewhere or sell it.
> 
> Edit: looking over my past discussion about this topic, the level of isolation from the SU-1 is definitely not on the same level as the Intona and because I use a laptop as my source there _could_ be _some_ added benefit to having the Intona in play.  Desktop computers might not receive any extra benefit.  I knew this would be more of a slight tweak and maybe not noticeable at all depending on how much noise is coming from my Macbook USB port.  More of a small tweak item than necessity.
> 
> Thanks for the reminder guys as I might have just left it in the chain indefinitely because I had forgotten the details behind the purchase.  I'll investigate this more when the DAC is at full potential.


 
  

 If you already have one Intona it’s worth a try, just the way you have planned. Maybe it will have no effect, maybe big enough to keep. Digital noise are generally tricky things to deal with in a resolving system. Mains power is even harder to get right IME.


----------



## DecentLevi

wnbc said:


> ...Edit: looking over my past discussion about this topic, the level of isolation from the SU-1 is definitely not on the same level as the Intona and because I use a laptop as my source there _could_ be _some_ added benefit to having the Intona in play.  Desktop computers might not receive any extra benefit.  I knew this would be more of a slight tweak and maybe not noticeable at all depending on how much noise is coming from my Macbook USB port...


 
 Do you mean to say the Intona or the SU-1 is on a higher level?


----------



## WNBC

Intona is on a higher level.  This was mentioned to me by someone more knowledgeable about the specs of each component, but still said with the caveat of a potential small "icing on the cake" type improvement by the Intona when also using the SU-1.  
  
  
 Quote:


decentlevi said:


> Do you mean to say the Intona or the SU-1 is on a higher level?


----------



## DecentLevi

Well then it looks like the Intona USB component is more suited for other DAC's that accept mainly USB input, as it is only a USB-to-USB signal cleaner; and otherwise as you said it would only be "icing on the cake" if used with the Holo Audio Springs, seeing how its' USB input is its' weakpoint, meaning an Intona with the Holo Audio would likely necessitate double stacking it with the likes of another USB to I2S component such as the Singxer SU-1.
  
 My SU-1 is due in tomorrow, for initial testing with my current DAC's anyway. Also Torq about said "USB nervosa" -  I just let you guys toy with that idea although I don't have it - but no problem. My USB implementation is quite good already, but the Wyrd + SU-1 concept was just another idea in the long exploratory journey of moving up the audio ladder


----------



## WNBC

I must say everything sounds good as is right now.  Not much nervosa on my end   I kind of just want to set it and forget it, but I will play around with the Intona later when the Spring is fully settled.  As a side note, my USB cable (B-side) is stuck in the Intona and I cannot remove it.  Maybe that's a sign not to remove it from the chain 
  
  
 Quote:


decentlevi said:


> Well then it looks like the Intona USB component is more suited for other DAC's that accept mainly USB input, as it is only a USB-to-USB signal cleaner; and otherwise as you said it would only be "icing on the cake" if used with the Holo Audio Springs, seeing how its' USB input is its' weakpoint, meaning an Intona with the Holo Audio would likely necessitate double stacking it with the likes of another USB to I2S component such as the Singxer SU-1.
> 
> My SU-1 is due in tomorrow, for initial testing with my current DAC's anyway. Also Torq about said "USB nervosa" -  I just let you guys toy with that idea although I don't have it - but no problem. My USB implementation is quite good already, but the Wyrd + SU-1 concept was just another idea in the long exploratory journey of moving up the audio ladder


----------



## colour97

got my spring. with jenson cap, silver transfomer and audionote transformer at aes upgrade.


----------



## lukeap69

colour97 said:


> got my spring. with jenson cap, silver transfomer and audionote transformer at aes upgrade.




Same specs as the 'Wild' edition?


----------



## eschell27

colour97 said:


> got my spring. with jenson cap, silver transfomer and audionote transformer at aes upgrade.


 
  
 What is that sitting on top of the Spring?


----------



## DecentLevi

Today I got my Singxer SU-1 USB interface, and what a ride this has already been two hours in!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Excuse me for posting this on the Holo Audio Spring DAC thread, but the SU-1 are a pairing made for each other so thought you wouldn't mind. And just to clarity again, I've gotten this in anticipation of a future Holo Spring purchase, but am seeing what it can do for my current DACs in the meantime.
 
Initial listening impression from a cold first start with the SU-1 connected directly to my Mimby (Modi 2 multibit) DAC was that it sounded a little better than the Wyrd (Schiit Audio USB signal cleaner) into the Mimby. Slightly deeper into the scene and more organic... then... wait for it...
 
 +  + 
  
The floodgates of sonic bliss opened up when pairing the Wyrd with the SU-1! The configuration is:
 laptop --> *Wyrd *via thick Pangea USB cable --> *SU-1 *--> *Mimby *DAC via RCA coax
 
With the above combination I am without a shadow of a doubt getting the most impressive / resolving sound I have ever gotten out of a home hi-fi setup!!! Absolutely riveting, totally engulfing and sensational!! This combination is mesmerisingly organic, snappy, flush with detail, dynamics that are proper and solid, weighty bass when called for and humongous soundstage.
 
Removing the SU-1 from the chain (Wyrd + Mimby) was like getting out of a warm, velvety lucid reality into a colder more sterile room that was much smaller and distant from reality... and mind you the Wyrd alone does a fantastic job at upping the fidelity. However it's no match at all for the Wyrd + SU-1 into my DAC, which is utterly lifelike and everything is totally engulfing and without a doubt as close to "the truth" of the recording I've ever heard with a setup at home.
 
Also it's worth noting the amp I have been using is a bit of a modern day marvel of an OTL tube amp called Elise from Feliks Audio; coupled with custom upgraded tubes (RCA 6080 powers + RCA 12AV7 drivers via adapter) and modded HD-650 headphones. This amp was surely doing a great deal of the 'heavy lifting', but with this configuration as my top of the hill after at least 100+ former tube combinations; the pairing shown to be the ultimate in linearity and transparency, I can assure you without any doubt how much of a difference the SU-1 makes, especially when fed with a USB signal cleaner the likes of the Wyrd.
 
Several weeks ago I also had the pleasure of trying the Holo Audio 3 DAC with several top flagship headphones (HEK v2, HD800, HD 650 and Focal Utopia via GSX MK2 amp), and also had done a critical A/B comparison and indeed the SU-1 USB interface made as large of an improvement on the Holo Audio DAC, as well as with my Mimby DAC. Not to mention I have yet to even try its' pairing with my Gustard X12 with native DSD via I2S, coax and AES connections I have - but with the way it has already performed with the above I'll have to admit being a little 'afraid' of how good this may sound... not to mention my future plan to try Wyrd + SU-1 + Holo Audio Spring (level not yet decided).
 
The above comparison was done with the already mentioned DAC components and headphones, using well mastered lossless files of various genres including rock, pop and electronic music via the bit perfect WASAPI drivers. Several A/B's were done to eliminate any traces of possible 'expectation bias', and the differences were clear and present. The Mimby + Wyrd sounded somewhat thin and artificial compared to with SU-1 in the mix, and the SU-1 + Mimby sounded fairly good but no match for the above three, which had the most organic and dynamic sound that was much "deeper into the scene" and with the biggest soundstage! 
 
It's amazing how much DAC's can 'scale' with USB components. Perhaps it _shouldn't_ sound this much better, but to my ears, it most definitely _does_
 
PS - I was surprised at how solid and hefty the SU-1 is - somewhat heavy and built like a tank!


----------



## colour97

lukeap69 said:


> Same specs as the 'Wild' edition?


not include internal silver wiring.

i am still thinking to join focusrite club or usb club.

last night i went to retailer to audition my spring pairing with su-1.

with or without su-1 this is easy to hear the difference.


----------



## sheldaze

decentlevi said:


> The floodgates of sonic bliss opened up when pairing the Wyrd with the SU-1! The configuration is:
> laptop --> *Wyrd *via thick Pangea USB cable --> *SU-1 *--> *Mimby *DAC via RCA coax


 
 Interesting observation.
 I would have assumed enough USB cleanup would be in the SU-1, so am looking forward to trying this.


----------



## DecentLevi

Frankly I think it's somewhat silly and ridiculous that the SU-1's internal USB isolater / enhancer is apparently lacking, as that's more/less it's whole purpose. But I must say I am so impressed with the Wyrd + SU-1 pairing that this is my end-game setup, as for pre-DAC components anyway. But at least the SU-1 works great directly into the Holo Audio Spring, and for those interested in further upping the fidelity, the likes of Wyrd, Gustard U12 and Intona are available to further isolate / improve the signal coming into the USB interface... and the Wyrd is still quite affordable


----------



## BlakeT

Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback DecentLevi.
  
 Yes, in a "better" world, one would not need to resort to usb cleaner devices, external usb to spdif/AES/i2s converters, etc., much less the need to combine multiple cleaner products.  One would just use a usb cable directly to the DAC, but unfortunately, that will always be a sub-optimal setup.
  
 IME, similar to your findings, combining these usb cleaner devices has always provided an improvement as compared to using just one usb cleaner device. Sometimes the improvements combining these devices are more subtle, sometimes more obvious.
  
 I've been through 2 Standard Intona's, 2 Industrial Intonas, 2 Regens, 1 Wyrd Recovery, 2 Jitterbugs, 1 iUSB, multiple LPS powering devices and do find these devices very much worthwhile.  I also went into an obsessive usb to spdif converter period, buying, comparing and selling off various usb converters until I found my end game unit.  
  
 Having said all that, if I could go back in a time machine, I would have held off on the above usb cleaner devices (but still using an external usb to spdif converter) and instead just wait and purchase the Sonore microRendu and Uptone Audio LPS-1 (the microRendu has a Regen incorporated into the unit).  
  
 The improvements from the microRendu + LPS-1 exceeded the improvements from any combinations/stacking of the above-described cleaner devices by a significant margin.  The journey was fun though and eliminated my curiosity concerning these devices and I still use some of the cleaner devices in my office system.


----------



## maxh22

blaket said:


> Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback DecentLevi.
> 
> Yes, in a "better" world, one would not need to resort to usb cleaner devices, external usb to spdif/AES/i2s converters, etc., much less the need to combine multiple cleaner products.  One would just use a usb cable directly to the DAC, but unfortunately, that will always be a sub-optimal setup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What usb to spidif converters have you used? Currently thinking about picking up the Ifi iLink and using it with a regen. What do you think will result in better SQ?
  
 PC > Intona > Regen or
  
 PC > Regen> Ifi iLink


----------



## WNBC

A couple months ago I wasn't thinking about going NAS, but might be worth it to switch over from my DAS.  Seems like the uRendu would be the last piece of the source journey.  Rendu > Spring > amp.  Anything upstream of the Rendu like a ifi u-iUSB3.0?    
  
  
 Quote:


blaket said:


> The improvements from the microRendu + LPS-1 exceeded the improvements from any combinations/stacking of the above-described cleaner devices by a significant margin.  The journey was fun though and eliminated my curiosity concerning these devices and I still use some of the cleaner devices in my office system.


----------



## WNBC

Do you think it was mainly to keep the cost of the SU-1 below a certain point or maybe Singxer conceded that others might be able to do it better, thus allowing other boxes like the Intona, U12, etc. to take the lead?  
  
 USB > SU-1 > I2S > Holo is sounding as good or better than Coaxial > Holo.  Maybe it's my imagination and I always thought coaxial is king.  Could be that a higher end transport might be better than my transport, but I don't think I'll be spending more on CDs.
  
  
 Quote:


decentlevi said:


> Frankly I think it's somewhat silly and ridiculous that the SU-1's internal USB isolater / enhancer is apparently lacking, as that's more/less it's whole purpose. But I must say I am so impressed with the Wyrd + SU-1 pairing that this is my end-game setup, as for pre-DAC components anyway. But at least the SU-1 works great directly into the Holo Audio Spring, and for those interested in further upping the fidelity, the likes of Wyrd, Gustard U12 and Intona are available to further isolate / improve the signal coming into the USB interface... and the Wyrd is still quite affordable.


----------



## rafabro

wnbc said:


> USB > SU-1 > I2S > Holo is sounding as good or better than Coaxial > Holo.  Maybe it's my imagination and I always thought coaxial is king.


 
 Nothing is better than I2S.


----------



## BlakeT

maxh22 said:


> What usb to spidif converters have you used? Currently thinking about picking up the Ifi iLink and using it with a regen. What do you think will result in better SQ?
> 
> PC > Intona > Regen or
> 
> PC > Regen> Ifi iLink


 
  
 Bel Canto RefLink, Bel Canto uLink, Ar-T Legato, Berkeley Alpha, Breeze DU-U8 XMOS with Talema upgrade, Gustard U12... I may be forgetting one or two.  I had them all at the same time (except for the Breeze and Gustard), did head to head comparisons and sold off all of them but my favorite, the Berkeley and I also kept the Breeze DU-U8for the office.
  
 My usb converter reviews/findings are buried in the "15 digital to analog conversion shootout out thread" started by Elberoth on CA forum.  That was a few years ago and since that time a few cheap and cheerful Chinese units have popped up in the scene as well as Mutec and Yellowtec.  
  
  
 With respect to your question, I've not tried the iLink so couldn't say, but Intona + Regen (or Wyrd Remedy) is a good combo.  I slightly preferred the Wyrd to the Regen.


----------



## BlakeT

wnbc said:


> A couple months ago I wasn't thinking about going NAS, but might be worth it to switch over from my DAS.  Seems like the uRendu would be the last piece of the source journey.  Rendu > Spring > amp.  Anything upstream of the Rendu like a ifi u-iUSB3.0?


 
  
 Airport Extreme located in another room> wireless > Airport Express > Cat 6a > microRendu (using Roon mode and powered by the Uptone LPS-1) > Sonore/Cardas hard usb adapter > Berkeley Alpha (using AES to my DAC).


----------



## guymrob

​I've some questions after I've auditioned Holo Spring DAC

In NOS mode: How do the DAC takes care of the noise central around 44.1kHz sampling frequency? If I understand correctly, over-sampling(8x typical) is supposed to the shift the sampling noise to a higher band and make analogue/digital filtering less aggressive. If such noise is not filter out, it may get into power amps; this may cause instability and sometimes over-heating.

In OS mode, what is the over-sampling factor applied for PCM and DSD? 2x, 4x or 8x of its native sample?

Conversion mode: OS PCM mode means works like OS mode for PCM but DSD is converted to PCM on the fly?
 OS DSD mode means works like OS mode for DSD but PCM is converted to DSD on the fly?

Thank you for your quick reply


----------



## ericr

The Level 1 that I ordered on Black Friday arrived yesterday. But I'm away this week for combined business / holiday trip. Looking forward to listening to it next.week!


----------



## lukeap69

ericr said:


> The Level 1 that I ordered on Black Friday arrived yesterday. But I'm away this week for combined business / holiday trip. Looking forward to listening to it next.week!




Hope you can enjoy your trip thinking your Holo Spring is waiting for you...


----------



## DecentLevi

rafabro said:


> Nothing is better than I2S.


 
 Well I just had my first I2S experience at home, with some interesting results - connecting the SU-1 via Wyrd to my Gustard X12 DAC (since my Holo Spring DAC is still pending). At first I tried it with DSD files, and for some reason it was coming through as 44.1 PCM on the 12S connection which resulted in a very back-row, non- detailed presentation, lacking in bass and with a channel imbalance. Strange though because all other connections between the SU-1 and/or Wyrd to my DAC including USB, RCA-coax and AES all came through as native DSD, except for the 12S cable downconverted it greatly. I wonder if this is due to my chosen I2S cable, the Gustard X12 itself, or maybe a defect with my SU-1?
  
 Anyway where I was really blown away was with I2S's performance with normal PCM recordings. It took the already splendid AES/EBU connection to a whole new level of realism, layering, detail and bite / dynamics... just when I didn't think it could get any better than the AES/EBU connection, I was blown away once again! Well I'm officially now a 'believer' in the power of I2S with audio fidelity, but just hope there's nothing wrong with my system so a future Holo Spring purchase would still work with DSD using I2S... and in the meantime if anyone can help me troubleshoot why I'm not getting native DSD via I2S (with Foobar + Wyrd + SU-1 + X12 DAC) that would be extremely helpful. Thanks
  
 PS, here was the I2S cable I used (went with HDMI since I2S cables were not find-able online).
 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZX45R7345
 Also this one happened to be slightly thin. Also would you say I would get even better fidelity out of thicker I2S cable?


----------



## dmance

I had a four hour audition/comparison recently with a holo. We went PC laptop USB to MP-U1 to Intona to DAC. For those unfamiliar, the MP-U1 inserts a LDO regulated battery into the USB. With this combo we had unprecedented musicality...The bits were perfect(of course) and there was zero intrusion of analog noise to the DAC.
I would highly recommend this setup if you are using USB.


----------



## Energy

decentlevi said:


> PS, here was the I2S cable I used (went with HDMI since I2S cables were not find-able online).
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZX45R7345
> Also this one happened to be slightly thin. Also would you say I would get even better fidelity out of thicker I2S cable?


 
  
 I recommend the Silverback S6 HDMI cable. Thicker will have better shielding and improved signal integrity. Would help with jitter. You can also go for WireWorld HDMI cables such as Chroma, Ultraviolet, or Starlight. I wouldn't invest in something super expensive, as it's job is to simply carry data. A nice shielded one will be more than plenty.
  
 Make sure to run the cable as short as you can. If you're using 1.5FT, see if 1FT would work. Personally mine is 0.5FT as my Singxer SU-1 sits right on top of my Spring. The shorter, the better the signal.


----------



## rafabro

decentlevi said:


> PS, here was the I2S cable I used (went with HDMI since I2S cables were not find-able online).
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0ZX45R7345
> Also this one happened to be slightly thin. Also would you say I would get even better fidelity out of thicker I2S cable?


 
 It's some crap, not series audio cable. I'm using Audioquest Carbon 0.6m and really recommend it.
 I was testing Forest, Cynamon & Wireworld Starlight 7 + some cheap cables eg. Kumho etc.
 Only Starlight 7 has the same level of detail but is to bright for me. Carbon makes difference. Is better balanced.
  
 I2S/HDMI makes bigger difference than USB cable.


----------



## mock-up

Stripped down Spring with first ever tube output!
 http://dastereo.ru/t/holo-audio-spring-dac-r2r-dsd512/2075/2976?u=dmitre


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I just bought an ifi tube buffer..uses 5670 tubes which allows me to use the tubes i have for my mhdt labs dacs.


----------



## Slow_aetk

Sorry if the question has already been answered.
  
 What is the resolution of this DAC in bits, compared to Bimby 16 bits, Gumby 18 bits and Yggy 21 bits?


----------



## WNBC

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/holo-audio-spring-digital-analogue-converter-r2r-dsd512-29319/index2.html

I think 24 bits according to this discussion on computerphile


----------



## Nada

slow_aetk said:


> Sorry if the question has already been answered.
> 
> What is the resolution of this DAC in bits, compared to Bimby 16 bits, Gumby 18 bits and Yggy 21 bits?


 
  
 Resolution as defined as above by bit depth is best indicted by measurements. For example a DAC may claim to do 32bit decoding but measurements light only reveal an extra 6dB of resolution of  24bit tone below a 16bit signal = 17bits.
  
 Holo specs have not been independently confirmed as far as I know. If you believe the manufacturer (I never do) the noise floor is below -125dB which is fine and indicates resolution in bits is limited below 21bits.  Anyone got an oscilloscope and a Holo?
  
 Perhaps what matters more is what can be heard. Which DAC reveals more nuances that add to musical emotion and enjoyment?


----------



## potterma

nada said:


> Holo specs have not been independently confirmed as far as I know. If you believe the manufacturer (I never do) the noise floor is below -125dB which is fine and indicates resolution in bits is limited below 21bits.  Anyone got an oscilloscope and a Holo?


 
  
 You realize that 125 dB down on a 5 VRMS signal is 4 µV PEAK, right?  Good luck seeing that on an oscilloscope.  Even the $17,000 Lecroy High Resolution Oscilloscope is only 12 bit...


----------



## Nada

potterma said:


> You realize that 125 dB down on a 5 VRMS signal is 4 µV PEAK, right?  Good luck seeing that on an oscilloscope.  Even the $17,000 Lecroy High Resolution Oscilloscope is only 12 bit...


 
  
 Well some guys have the gear to go down to -150dB ....


----------



## Clemmaster

With averaging.


----------



## potterma

nada said:


> Well some guys have the gear to go down to -150dB ....


 
 -143 dB-ish  from that graph... NOT an oscilloscope!


----------



## monkkx

Hi everyone, in my headset system, I do have a Spring Kitsune edition fed by a microRendu through USB input.
 I'm wondering is there would be any listenable benefit to have the Spring used with the I2S input, rather than the USB one, since I understood from my readings that Spring was "optimized" for I2S input format.
 However, I've also understood that the microrendu is one of the cleanest USB device. I would be very interested to hear feedbacks/comparisons between microrendu>Spring(USB) and microrendu>Singxer SU-1>Spring(I2S).
  
 Thanks in advanvce


----------



## BlakeT

monkkx said:


> I would be very interested to hear feedbacks/comparisons between microrendu>Spring(USB) and microrendu>Singxer SU-1>Spring(I2S).
> 
> Thanks in advanvce


 
  
 Would be interesting to hear feedback.  I'd think the I2S would be superior.


----------



## monkkx

That's what I'd like to figure out.
 The thing is the singxer can potentially add some more electrical noise etc ... anyway, if anyone has this setup, please share some insights


----------



## BlakeT

Did you read Ted Brady's review of the Spring on the CA forum?  That article has comparisons between these two options, IIRC.


----------



## monkkx

blaket said:


> Did you read Ted Brady's review of the Spring on the CA forum?  That article has comparisons between these two options, IIRC.


 Hello, yes I've seen this review that actually made me interested in I2S input. But I'm looking for some more technical comparisons


----------



## lukeap69

monkkx said:


> Hello, yes I've seen this review that actually made me interested in I2S input. But I'm looking for some more technical comparisons




This was touched in Torq's review

http://www.head-fi.org/products/holo-audio-spring-dac-level-3-kitsune-tuned-edition/reviews/17337


----------



## WNBC

Approaching 2 weeks of burn-in with the Spring and this DAC continues to amaze me.  Plenty of resolution and microdynamics.  Sounds that were faint with other DACs are clear and prominent (in a good way).  I do wonder why they allow us to eat food in a small jazz club and then go on to record the session   Vocal clarity is stunning.  It is hard for me to decipher all that is specific to the DAC because it is a partnership with headphones and amps, but I do feel the DAC is processing music with excellent fidelity and tonality.  With complex passages the DAC gives me everything laid out in a way that I can easily interpret and pick out the various instruments.  There was talk of bit depth or resolution a while ago.  I am definitely not one to measure bits, but if I understand bit depth as analogous to say color depth, then even though I might not be good at measuring resolution we can spot it easily whether visually in photos or hear it in reproduced music.  The Spring is putting forth music that sounds full and natural to me.  The decay that I hear is excellent.  When I first got into this hobby everything excited me.  My first real DAC was the PS Audio Digital Link.  That was exciting.  Since then I've had some "good" DACs, but I got more excited about headphones and amps.  Now I'm excited about DACs again.  Don't think I can afford to get more excited so this is it for a while with a tweak here and there.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I've finally hooked up my Spring DAC lvl3 last night to the main rig. +1 on the microdynamics and detail retrieval. The attack and decay is on point when operated in NOS mod, as with most NOS dacs. The jury is still out if the level of mid/high and highs details and presentation being pushed forward is natural to me but the DAC only now has about 100hrs of playing time, but 200-300hrs of on time. When I mean by being pushed forward, it sounds as if the crash of cymbals are forward where most of the time it's a bit back in the presentation (as it should on a live performace). I'll wait it out a bit longer with music piping through to make that conclusion.
  
 Modified Breeze Audio DDC (femto, silver cables, bnc plug change, etc), Spring Dac lvl3, AudioGD SA31-SE, Sony MDR-Z1R


  


Spoiler: cable help



Can someone point me to a RJ45 to HDMI i2s cable source?


----------



## mscott58

Just received mine, and after opening the box to make sure it wasn't damaged in transport I sealed it back up and gave it to my wife. Have to give her something to put under the tree or else I get in big trouble! Cheers


----------



## ericr

^^^ Wow! Super human levels of self control!














She is starting the burn-in process for you, isn't she? (have her give me a call if she needs help).


----------



## mscott58

ericr said:


> ^^^ Wow! Super human levels of self control!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ha! Yeah, it's actually one of the reasons I was glad there was a while between ordering and delivery as it put the DAC arriving only a few days before Xmas - thus making the self control a bit easier. 
  
 And after 20 years of marriage I think we're both well burned-in. Cheers and happy holidays


----------



## rajacat

My order of the Level 2 has been delayed till February.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I might order the Level 1 instead although, I suspect, it's not available too. The Jensens caps are the bottleneck. I bet the Holo factory is overwhelmed by the demand and there will be a long delay no matter what level you order, Jensen caps or not.


----------



## joseph69

The Level 1 is out of stock as well according to Holo USA so you might as well just wait for the model you really want.


----------



## bwanaaa

Any news on the 'May' dac that kitsune will be releasing?


----------



## JackDiesel

rajacat said:


> My order of the Level 2 has been delayed till February.  I suspect the L1 isn't available too. If it is, I might order the Level 1 instead although, I suspect, it's not available too. The Jensens caps are the bottleneck. I bet the Holo factory is overwhelmed by the demand and there will be a long delay no matter what level you order, Jensen caps or not.




My level 1 was delivered over a week ago and I ordered during their black Friday deal. Just haven't been home since. After I ordered it I kind of wish I would have spent the extra on the level 3. Technically it was more than I wanted to spend on a DAC but I usually don't regret spending too much on something, I regret not spending more.


----------



## rajacat

jackdiesel said:


> My level 1 was delivered over a week ago and I ordered during their black Friday deal. Just haven't been home since. After I ordered it I kind of wish I would have spent the extra on the level 3. Technically it was more than I wanted to spend on a DAC but I usually don't regret spending too much on something, I regret not spending more.


 
 I ordered on Black Friday too. If I had gone for the L1 which was available at the time, I'd probably have mine too. L3 a bridge to far $$$ for me. Actually, my original cap for price was 1K. Besides I'm not convinced that the L3 would sound much better than a L2 with the other modifications, (input cap, fancy IEC, silver wire soldered to board) , which I could DIY for they are fairly simple to implement. Also the copper tranny is wrapped with high purity 6N copper.  
  
 L2 was the sweet spot for me with the Black Friday prices. I couldn't buy the Jensens for the price difference between the L1 and L2 at the time.. I paid ~ $1500 for the L2. Problem would be possible invalidation of the 3 year warranty


----------



## Torq

bwanaaa said:


> Any news on the 'May' dac that kitsune will be releasing?


 

 It's 18 months out at least, last I'd heard.


----------



## mko71

greenkiwi said:


> Also, there haven't been any reviews comparing level 1 with 2 or 3?




I have extensive experience modifying gear. From what I see as parts between levels, any improvement would be totally room/system dependant. You would need to base the cost of upgrade with what you are dealing with already. 

In my experience, unless you are really rebuilding a piece of gear. These add on's offer incremental performance boosts that are often overshadowed by systems that do not have the resoulution to exploit it or the room is not treated and these subtle effects are washed out.

I would say invest that $800 in room treatment... then once you have a neutral room, consider balanced power like an Equi=Tech. That is the solution for the majority of people looking for higher performance.


----------



## arnaud

Oh, does that smell like a free plug for EquiTech .


----------



## mko71

arnaud said:


> Oh, does that smell like a free plug for EquiTech .




I have a 2QR Equi=Tech in my system, so do quite a few recording studios and professional well known artists. I made the suggestion because they are the originators of balanced power. 

It doesn't matter to me what you buy. Furman makes one, Bridgeport Magnets used to make them, you could also use the type made for Hospital equipment. 

The main point was balanced power works on the same principle as balanced cable. Common mode rejection. It's a proven concept that works. I chose them because I happen to think they are the best out there. Martin Glasband (founder/owner) even took the time to have the national electrical code updated to allow for balanced power to be used and approved. That's kind of a big deal..


----------



## mscott58

mko71 said:


> I have a 2QR Equi=Tech in my system, so do quite a few recording studios and professional well known artists. I made the suggestion because they are the originators of balanced power.
> 
> It doesn't matter to me what you buy. Furman makes one, Bridgeport Magnets used to make them, you could also use the type made for Hospital equipment.
> 
> The main point was balanced power works on the same principle as balanced cable. Common mode rejection. It's a proven concept that works. I chose them because I happen to think they are the best out there. Martin Glasband (founder/owner) even took the time to have the national electrical code updated to allow for balanced power to be used and approved. That's kind of a big deal..




Agree with the positive impact of balanced power. And with a little patience and some knowledge of electronics one can source a used Topaz isolation transformer and rewire it for balanced power output, and do so for maybe a few hundred bucks. I have units that are 1.8, 2.4 and even 5kV. Cheers

PS - Don't jump into balanced power until you read up on what it is and what it means and how it is different. There are some potential risks, so be safe.


----------



## Patatorz38

Hello, I'm interested in this product and i try to understand the differences between different versions. By the way in hear also that there is some delay in shipment. What is the actual delay if i order today ?
  
 BR


----------



## mscott58

Here's an example of a Topaz unit that could be modified for balanced power. And at 2.5kV it's a big one! 


Look at this on eBay
Topaz 91002-11 Ultra-Isolator Conditioner 2.5KVA 0.005pF Line Noise Suppressor


----------



## rafabro

patatorz38 said:


> Hello, I'm interested in this product and i try to understand the differences between different versions. By the way in hear also that there is some delay in shipment. What is the actual delay if i order today ?
> 
> BR


 
 Shouldn't you ask retailer/shop?


----------



## Sherwood

mko71 said:


> I would say invest that $800 in room treatment...




Not a very relevant recommendation on a headphone forum.


----------



## JackDiesel

sherwood said:


> Not a very relevant recommendation on a headphone forum.




I was wondering the same thing when I read that. Even though I own a pair of Paradigm Studio 100's the necessary equipment needed and room treatments are just too costly for 2 channel audio. Good luck finding reasonablely priced tube amps to drive towers not to mention things like room treatment. Home theater for the speakers, headphones for the music.


----------



## Torq

rajacat said:


> My order of the Level 2 has been delayed till February.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'd suggest pulling your order and placing it elsewhere; I don't think Shenzen were ever authorized dealers for the thing and I'd be willing to wager your order will be perpetually delayed.


----------



## mscott58

jackdiesel said:


> I was wondering the same thing when I read that. Even though I own a pair of Paradigm Studio 100's the necessary equipment needed and room treatments are just too costly for 2 channel audio. Good luck finding reasonablely priced tube amps to drive towers not to mention things like room treatment. Home theater for the speakers, headphones for the music.




Room treatments can be made DIY pretty cheaply if you're handy. I used IKEA bookshelf sides, recycled denim insulation, cardboard, netting and canvas to make both reflection panels and corner bass traps. Cheers


----------



## joseph69

torq said:


> I'd suggest pulling your order and placing it elsewhere; I don't think Shenzen were ever authorized dealers for the thing and I'd be willing to wager your order will be perpetually delayed.


 
 I assumed he ordered from Holo USA.


----------



## Torq

joseph69 said:


> I assumed he ordered from Holo USA.


 
  


rajacat said:


> I went for the L2 and ordered from *Shenzhen*. I noticed that the L1 is back in stock at Kitsune. Shenzhen is out of stock of all models but will take orders. For the L2, the Jensen caps are the main cause of the delay.


 

 Original post here; emphasis mine.
  
 One of those "having an eidetic memory is often a curse" moments ...


----------



## Sherwood

peaceofmind said:


>


 
  
 This rack is gorgeous.  Who makes it?
  
 EDIT: Looks to be a Mapleshade Samson with custom shelf height.  Beautiful.


----------



## blubliss

That's a Mapleshade rack.


----------



## Peaceofmind

Yes it's a Mapleshade Samson, cherry finish. Shelves are adjustable.


----------



## joseph69

torq said:


> Original post here; emphasis mine.
> One of those "having an eidetic memory is often a curse" moments ...


 
  
@Torq
 Thanks, I totally missed that.
  
@rajacat 
 From what I understand, the "Kitsune Tuned Edition" was only ever available through Holo USA…never Shenzhen. I also believe it was posted somewhere here that Holo pulled the Spring DAC distribution rights from Shenzen as well..


----------



## Torq

joseph69 said:


> @rajacat
> From what I understand, the "Kitsune Tuned Edition" was only ever available through Holo USA…never Shenzhen. I also believe it was posted somewhere here that Holo pulled the Spring DAC distribution rights from Shenzen as well..


 
  
 They can't "pull" something that was never there in the first place ... my understanding is that Shenzen were never authorized dealers for Holo Audio product.  I stand to be corrected there.
  
 The "KTE" was *definitely* only available via Holo Audio USA/Kitsune Audio.


----------



## joseph69

torq said:


> They can't "pull" something that was never there in the first place ... my understanding is that Shenzen were never authorized dealers for Holo Audio product.  I stand to be corrected there.
> 
> The "KTE" was *definitely* only available via Holo Audio USA/Kitsune Audio.


 
 I thought they were an authorized dealer who just weren't living up to their agreements.


----------



## bimmer100

peaceofmind said:


> Yes it's a Mapleshade Samson, cherry finish. Shelves are adjustable.




Very nice!!! I'm in the market to get a hifi rack. Problem is every one I find is crazy expensive or they don't ship to the USA. Nice setup!


----------



## Torq

joseph69 said:


> I thought they were an authorized dealer who just weren't living up to their agreements.


 

 Not that I'm aware of.
  
 And if they _are_/_were_ an authorized dealer, why were they misappropriating another dealer's artwork/product shots?
  
 Number of dollars I'd entrust to any operation partaking in that kind of nonsense is: ZERO DOLLAH!
  
 YMMV ...


----------



## joseph69

torq said:


> Not that I'm aware of.
> 
> And if they _are_/_were_ an authorized dealer, *why were they misappropriating another dealer's artwork/product shots?*
> 
> ...


 
 Could very well be why.
 Also something to do with their (Shenznen) pricing I believe.


----------



## Torq

joseph69 said:


> Could very well be why.
> Also something to do with their (Shenznen) pricing I believe.


 

 Seems like Shenzanigans to me ...


----------



## joseph69

Definitely!


----------



## Sherwood

There are numerous dealers on taobao, all of which offer the base (level one) and the upgraded (rise ji) DACs. I'm not certain how the rise ji edition compares to the Kitsune Tuned editions for sale through Kitsune audio, but I think they're roughly equivalent to the earliest level 3 units. 

Dealer authorization is a different process in China. Shenzhen audio is likely an authorized dealer there, but not in the U.S.


----------



## Torq

sherwood said:


> Dealer authorization is a different process in China. Shenzhen audio is likely an authorized dealer there, but not in the U.S.


 
  
 As far as I know, they're not authorized _anywhere_.
  
 Feel free to have them come here and state, officially, otherwise.
  
 Even if they _are_, it's pretty damn sleazy stealing artwork from other legitimately authorized dealers.  That's not the sort of company I'd want to do business with.


----------



## Sherwood

torq said:


> Feel free to have them come here and state, officially, otherwise.




I don't know them, so if you want them to state something on record you'll need to be the one who reaches out. 

I know that, when they were carrying the Holo, they were selling it for the same price the other Taobao dealers were. That implies to me that they were buying them at wholesale, which is what effectively constitutes a dealer relationship in China. 

I agree that stealing artwork is sleazy, though it's very much par for the course with domestic Chinese sales. I bought my unit from Kitsune directly, as I would recommend to anyone looking here.


----------



## Torq

sherwood said:


> I don't know them, so if you want them to state something on record you'll need to be the one who reaches out.


 
  
 I don't really care what _they_ *do*.
  


> I know that, when they were carrying the Holo, they were selling it for the same price the other Taobao dealers were. That implies to me that they were buying them at wholesale, which is what effectively constitutes a dealer relationship in China.


 
  
 That's just one way to get low pricing and by no means indicative of any official dealership authorization (which would be required for factory warranty work, per Holo Audio at least).  I could sell watches under retail here (US) and still pay more than foreign wholesale and still make a tidy profit.  Doesn't make me an AD.
  


> I agree that stealing artwork is sleazy, though it's very much par for the course with domestic Chinese sales.


 
  
 Par for the course maybe, but if it's something someone condones they shouldn't be surprised if such sleaziness manifests itself in the event they need warranty service from said-sleazes.


----------



## Torq

Going to stop commenting on this - if you (colloquial "you") want to buy from non-ADs for this sort of thing go for it.
  
 Just don't be surprised if your "shipment" is perpetually delayed due to never having been through authorized channels in the first place.


----------



## rajacat

Thanks to all for being concerned with my dealings with Shenzhen.
 I did cancel my order and my money was refunded through PayPal immediately. No problem at all with the refund. They seem like an honest company but they were winging this a little bit.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I waited over a month only to be told that I'd have to wait another in the hope that I finally get my precious DAC.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Since, I presume, they aren't an authorized dealer, I'd be at the end of the line for it. Not a good place. They did try to sell me this: https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/matrix-x-sabre-pro-es9038pro-32bit-768khz-dsd1024-audio-dac.html
  
 Cosmetically, this DAC looks nice and it seems solid but I want R2R.
  
 I think I'm going to wait awhile until the Holo Company catches up with demand before placing any more $$$ upfront.
 Yes, it's a little hairy dealing with companies halfway around the world with upfront cash.
  
 Thanks again.
  
 Roy


----------



## joseph69

rajacat said:


> I think I'm going to wait awhile until the Holo Company catches up with demand before placing any more $$$ upfront.
> Yes, it's a little hairy dealing with companies halfway around the world with upfront cash.


 
 I would place the order ASAP through Holo USA so you don't have to be further down the line.
 At least you know you're in the queue and will receive it along with a US warranty.


----------



## oneguy

I just snatched up the last Level 3 along with the SU-1. I have been looking at the Yggy for a while but its lack of DSD or to do anything higher than 192khz sample rates combine with the price kept me away. I know I paid slightly more for the Sring DAC but it had the features I wanted and worse case scenario is I sell it for a small loss if I don't like the sound. If the sound is as good as the reviews say then its time to part with other gear to cover the cost of today's wallet draining PayPal click. 

Whew, I am nervous and excited at the same time.


----------



## jerick70

oneguy said:


> I just snatched up the last Level 3 along with the SU-1. I have been looking at the Yggy for a while but its lack of DSD or to do anything higher than 192khz sample rates combine with the price kept me away. I know I paid slightly more for the Sring DAC but it had the features I wanted and worse case scenario is I sell it for a small loss if I don't like the sound. If the sound is as good as the reviews say then its time to part with other gear to cover the cost of today's wallet draining PayPal click.
> 
> Whew, I am nervous and excited at the same time.


 
  
 Congrats!  I've been looking at the Spring DAC since it came out.  I'm going to have to wait a little bit to get one unfortunately.
  
 If the upgrade is anything like going from my Yulong DA8 II ESS9018 based DAC to my MHDT Lab Atlantis AD1862N-J R2R based DAC it is a very favorable step up.  I'm very happy with my Atlantis.  The only downside is it doesn't do native DSD.


----------



## TimeLord

oneguy said:


> I just snatched up the last Level 3 along with the SU-1. I have been looking at the Yggy for a while but its lack of DSD or to do anything higher than 192khz sample rates combine with the price kept me away. I know I paid slightly more for the Sring DAC but it had the features I wanted and worse case scenario is I sell it for a small loss if I don't like the sound. If the sound is as good as the reviews say then its time to part with other gear to cover the cost of today's wallet draining PayPal click.
> 
> Whew, I am nervous and excited at the same time.




I'm also waiting on my Level 3 delivery. But I was lucky enough to audition it before placing my order. You have nothing to worry about. It really is as good as you've read.


----------



## DecentLevi

Shenzhen audio is still an excellent source if you want the Su-1. I ordered mine from them and shipping was amazingly prompt and free and the product quality was absolutely top-notch and built like a tank.


----------



## oneguy

Thanks for the positive responses guys!


----------



## Tboooe

oneguy said:


> I just snatched up the last Level 3 along with the SU-1. I have been looking at the Yggy for a while but its lack of DSD or to do anything higher than 192khz sample rates combine with the price kept me away. I know I paid slightly more for the Sring DAC but it had the features I wanted and worse case scenario is I sell it for a small loss if I don't like the sound. If the sound is as good as the reviews say then its time to part with other gear to cover the cost of today's wallet draining PayPal click.
> 
> Whew, I am nervous and excited at the same time.


 
 Congrats!  Actually, according to Tim I just bought the last one!    I really wanted to wait until after xmas to get the Level 3 but I didnt want to lose out on the discount.
  
 Like you, I was seriously considering the Yggy but its lack of DSD was what pushed me over the edge and get the Level 3.  I already purchased the SU-1 a few months ago so I am excited to try the HDMI interface.


----------



## oneguy

tboooe said:


> Congrats!  Actually, according to Tim I just bought the last one!    I really wanted to wait until after xmas to get the Level 3 but I didnt want to lose out on the discount.
> 
> Like you, I was seriously considering the Yggy but its lack of DSD was what pushed me over the edge and get the Level 3.  I already purchased the SU-1 a few months ago so I am excited to try the HDMI interface.




Yeah Tim just sent me an email. Apparently I sniped the one he originally added for you. My bad on that. I hope he can still offer me one at the current pricing.

Congrats on purchasing the last one at $2399. I concede the crown, lol.


----------



## Tboooe

@oneguy, BTW I sent you a PM regarding the SU-1.
  
 So does this mean you also got the lower price?  I hope so.


----------



## oneguy

Message received and responded to! Awaiting Tim's response on the availability of one more unit.


----------



## Tboooe

Now that it seems quite a few people have the Spring DAC, I am curious to hear what HDMI cables people are using.  From a quick perusal of this thread, it seems the Wireworld us pretty popular (probably because its on the Kitsune website).  Any feedback would be appreciated.


----------



## Energy

tboooe said:


> Now that it seems quite a few people have the Spring DAC, I am curious to hear what HDMI cables people are using.  From a quick perusal of this thread, it seems the Wireworld us pretty popular (probably because its on the Kitsune website).  Any feedback would be appreciated.


 
  
 I've personally use the WireWorld Starlight 7 in 0.3M. To me it performs as well as any other high quality HDMI cable that's well shielded and has a decent internal wire gauge.
  
 The thing about i2S is that you want to have the run as short as possible to prevent any induced jitter. I switched over to the Sewell Silverback S6 _($10)_ in 0.5FT as my DDC _(Singxer SU-1)_ sits directly on top of the Holo Audio Spring and it has indeed performed as well as any other WireWorld cable's I've owned. For this digital domain, I doubt the Chroma, Ultraviolet, or Silverlight would perform any different notwithstanding their slight differences. I wouldn't go for the cheaper Island model however as it's wire gauge is smaller and may not perform as well in terms of signal fidelity.


----------



## WNBC

I've been using the Kitsune-offered basic HDMI cable, but I might play around with different cables at some point, but spending will be within reason.  
 https://kitsunehifi.com/product/generic-i2s-hdmi-cable-0-3m/
  
 All my other cables are _relatively_ not very expensive:  Blue Jean Cables RCA IC, Wireworld Starlight 7 USB and coaxial cables, and Wireworld Equinox XLR IC.  I have not got around to trying my iFi USB3.0 and Gemini cable with the Spring.  Getting a feel for how things sound now and then will start adding/subtracting tweaks.  
  
 Little tweaking here and there with cables.   Maybe there will be a difference in sound, maybe not or maybe subtle.  I'm open to trying.  Good deals on used cables nowadays.  
  
  
  
 Quote:


tboooe said:


> Now that it seems quite a few people have the Spring DAC, I am curious to hear what HDMI cables people are using.  From a quick perusal of this thread, it seems the Wireworld us pretty popular (probably because its on the Kitsune website).  Any feedback would be appreciated.


----------



## Tboooe

Thanks guys.  I am a believer that cables can make a subtle difference up to a point.  Whether that point is due to my hearing or my modest system I dont know but I definitely do not want to get into a debate about cables!  
  
 I will check out the Wireworld options.  For now, I have the el cheapo $10 one listed on the Kitsune website that I will use with my SU-1.


----------



## rafabro

From my personal experience Wireworld Starlight 7 sounds to sharp on highs compare to smooth with Audioquest Carbon.
 General those are same quality level (same level of detail) but AQ sounds just better im my opinion.


----------



## Tboooe

rafabro said:


> From my personal experience Wireworld Starlight 7 sounds to sharp on highs compare to smooth with Audioquest Carbon.
> General those are same quality level (same level of detail) but AQ sounds just better im my opinion.


 
 Whats the shortest length the AQ HDMI cables come in?  I dont see anything shorter than 0.6m.  As I understand it, the HDMI cable needs to be as short as possible.


----------



## rafabro

0.6m. It is short enough.
 Length doesn't make big difference.


----------



## signature8

When I installed SU-1 with Spring DAC, computer automatically downloaded a driver which appears as "USB Audio 2.0 Stereo Driver v3.20.0" Publisher XMOS. Is this the right driver to use? When I select this driver it does not play DSD. 

I have two choices appear in HySolid; [ASIO] XMOS USB Audio 2.0 ST 3086 (it does not play DSD), and [WASAPI] Speakers (3-XMOS USB Audio) and it plays both DSD and PCM. Can someone explain which one to use, and if I am using the right drivers to begin with. Thanks.


----------



## signature8

signature8 said:


> When I installed SU-1 with Spring DAC, computer automatically downloaded a driver which appears as "USB Audio 2.0 Stereo Driver v3.20.0" Publisher XMOS. Is this the right driver to use? When I select this driver it does not play DSD.
> 
> I have two choices appear in HySolid; [ASIO] XMOS USB Audio 2.0 ST 3086 (it does not play DSD), and [WASAPI] Speakers (3-XMOS USB Audio) and it plays both DSD and PCM. Can someone explain which one to use, and if I am using the right drivers to begin with. Thanks.


 
 Sorry, non of above mentioned choices in HySolid  play DSD, I need to select JPlay to play DSD. Thanks.


----------



## mscott58

Holo Spring DAC Kitsune L3 is up and running! Woo-hoo!
  
 Easiest setup ever - just downloaded from Kitsune, ran the installer, and selected the right driver for JRMC and we're off to the races. 
  
 Now the burn-in period begins, although it sounds great already and looks super-cool on top of my Cavalli LAu. 

 Cheers all and Happy New Year (well, almost!)


----------



## Tboooe

signature8 said:


> Sorry, non of above mentioned choices in HySolid  play DSD, I need to select JPlay to play DSD. Thanks.



The standard driver for the SU-1 will not play native DSD only DoP. I will send you PM.


----------



## x RELIC x

mscott58 said:


> Holo Spring DAC Kitsune L3 is up and running! Woo-hoo!
> 
> Easiest setup ever - just downloaded from Kitsune, ran the installer, and selected the right driver for JRMC and we're off to the races.
> 
> ...




Wouldn't you want it _under_ the LAu else you'll melt the Holo. The LAu gets quite warm... :blink:


----------



## Articnoise

energy said:


> I've personally use the WireWorld Starlight 7 in 0.3M. To me it performs as well as any other high quality HDMI cable that's well shielded and has a decent internal wire gauge.
> 
> The thing about i2S is that you want to have the run as short as possible to prevent any induced jitter. I switched over to the Sewell Silverback S6 _($10)_ in 0.5FT as my DDC _(Singxer SU-1)_ sits directly on top of the Holo Audio Spring and it has indeed performed as well as any other WireWorld cable's I've owned. For this digital domain, I doubt the Chroma, Ultraviolet, or Silverlight would perform any different notwithstanding their slight differences. I wouldn't go for the cheaper Island model however as it's wire gauge is smaller and may not perform as well in terms of signal fidelity.


 
  

 The biggest benefit of using a balanced I2S LVDS (HDMI) cable is that it is not very critical on length. For a single ended I2S cable the length is much more critical (the benefit of a very short cable trumps quality of the cable). 

  

 The “quality” of the I2S LVDS cable is of more SQ importance than the length IME.


----------



## mscott58

x relic x said:


> Wouldn't you want it _under_ the LAu else you'll melt the Holo. The LAu gets quite warm...


 
 Great point. That's why I have the LAu up on isoballs and have two fans behind the stack to blow air through/around/under to keep everything from getting too hot. Will be playing around with the configuration though. Cheers


----------



## Tboooe

articnoise said:


> The biggest benefit of using a balanced I2S LVDS (HDMI) cable is that it is not very critical on length. For a single ended I2S cable the length is much more critical (the benefit of a very short cable trumps quality of the cable).
> 
> 
> 
> The “quality” of the I2S LVDS cable is of more SQ importance than the length IME.


 
 I have never heard of a single ended I2S cable.  Can you please list some examples?


----------



## Articnoise

tboooe said:


> I have never heard of a single ended I2S cable.  Can you please list some examples?


 
  

 There is no standard for I2S. Many use a regular HDMI cable for transmitting balanced I2S LVDS. For single ended I2S I have personally used some regular LAN cables (Cat 6 or 7) like AQ Vodka or WW starlight. As there are no standard for I2S, not all DACs or DDCs that can send or receive I2S will be compatible with RJ-45 connectors. Some companies have their oven made I2S cables and connectors.  

  

 To note: a HDMI cable that is used to send I2S LVDS is not sending HDMI protocol. The same goes for single ending I2S transmitting over a LAN cable, it is not Ethernet just using the Ethernet cable to transmit I2S signals. 

  

http://www.audioquest.com/ethernet/vodka 

http://www.supracables.co.uk/ethernetcables/cat-cable.html


----------



## Benny-x

oneguy said:


> I just snatched up the last Level 3 along with the SU-1. I have been looking at the Yggy for a while but its lack of DSD or to do anything higher than 192khz sample rates combine with the price kept me away. I know I paid slightly more for the Sring DAC but it had the features I wanted and worse case scenario is I sell it for a small loss if I don't like the sound. If the sound is as good as the reviews say then its time to part with other gear to cover the cost of today's wallet draining PayPal click.
> 
> Whew, I am nervous and excited at the same time.




So you finally pulled the trigger on it, eh? Congrats, man! Due to the similarities in our systems, I'm super looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the whole thing. 

Merry Christmas!


----------



## oneguy

benny-x said:


> So you finally pulled the trigger on it, eh? Congrats, man! Due to the similarities in our systems, I'm super looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the whole thing.
> 
> Merry Christmas!




Thanks, and Merry Christmas!


----------



## DecentLevi

tboooe said:


> The standard driver for the SU-1 will not play native DSD only DoP. I will send you PM.


 
 Would you or somebody in the know please do me a big favor and explain this to me? I've been getting what I thought to be native DSD signal from my SU-1 with its' XMOS driver, and my DAC even displays the specific DSD formats being received - but now to discover it wasn't really bit perfect or something? Feel free to post here or by PM. Thanks!


----------



## Tboooe

decentlevi said:


> Would you or somebody in the know please do me a big favor and explain this to me? I've been getting what I thought to be native DSD signal from my SU-1 with its' XMOS driver, and my DAC even displays the specific DSD formats being received - but now to discover it wasn't really bit perfect or something? Feel free to post here or by PM. Thanks!


 
 PM sent.


----------



## Tboooe

While I wait for my Level 3 to be delivered I am already thinking of what mods I could do to it. One area I'm really interested in is the power supply. In particular I am wondering if it's possible to supply DC power directly to the Spring? Has anyone opened up their Spring to see how easy it would be to bypass the AC supply? What DC voltage is needed?


----------



## Torq

tboooe said:


> While I wait for my Level 3 to be delivered I am already thinking of what mods I could do to it. One area I'm really interested in is the power supply. In particular I am wondering if it's possible to supply DC power directly to the Spring? Has anyone opened up their Spring to see how easy it would be to bypass the AC supply? What DC voltage is needed?




Wouldn't that defeat the entire purpose of buying a Level 3 unit in the first place?


----------



## mtoc

Quote:


tboooe said:


> While I wait for my Level 3 to be delivered I am already thinking of what mods I could do to it. One area I'm really interested in is the power supply. In particular I am wondering if it's possible to supply DC power directly to the Spring? Has anyone opened up their Spring to see how easy it would be to bypass the AC supply? What DC voltage is needed?


 
  
 Which means you have to swap the whole PSU and build yourself. If that's what you want.
  
 edit: should be build it yourself.


----------



## Tboooe

torq said:


> Wouldn't that defeat the entire purpose of buying a Level 3 unit in the first place?




Well I don't know that is why I am asking. Everything is designed to a price point so I am not sure if there is opportunity to improve things with a high quality linear power supply or battery source.


----------



## Torq

tboooe said:


> Well I don't know that is why I am asking. Everything is designed to a price point so I am not sure if there is opportunity to improve things with a high quality linear power supply or battery source.




The principle difference between the Level 1 and the Level 3 *IS* the power-supply. If you remove/replace/bypass it then you might as well have bought the Level 1 and saved yourself $700. Did you not look at the difference before you bought it?


----------



## rafabro

Exactly, no point to do it with level 3. Much better was to buy Level 1 and replace components with even better/ higher quality ones for much less


----------



## Tboooe

torq said:


> The principle difference between the Level 1 and the Level 3 *IS* the power-supply. If you remove/replace/bypass it then you might as well have bought the Level 1 and saved yourself $700. Did you not look at the difference before you bought it?




Sure I looked. I am just curious and like to mod things. Not knowing for sure if bypassing the power supply would yield better results is the reason why I bought the Level3.


----------



## rafabro

So you are not even sure why you bought Level 3


----------



## Tboooe

rafabro said:


> So you are not even sure why you bought Level 3


 
 I am not sure if the improved power supplyof the Level 3 is better than the Level 1 with my own DC power supply.  I am not even sure if it is easy to power the Spring directly with DC.  That's why I am asking.


----------



## Superdad

torq said:


> The principle difference between the Level 1 and the Level 3 *IS* the power-supply. If you remove/replace/bypass it then you might as well have bought the Level 1 and saved yourself $700. Did you not look at the difference before you bought it?


 

 Actually, I was told (by Tim at Kitsune) that the resistor ladder modules for the Level 3 are hand-selected by the designer.  That's the primary reason I went for the Level 3.  I'm sure the PS stuff helps as well, but the modules are the core of the DAC and having ones selected for greater precision is compelling to me.


----------



## mtoc

Wanna play with linear PSUs? Take a look at the Lynx Hilo or Metric Halo Lio 8, they accept around + 12 ~ 22 VDC (The ULN 2 even accepts 9V). They scale with better PSU.


----------



## Ken57

I have the Spring DAC (Lev1) and the Gustard X20U (to be sold).
 Which sounds better: Tidal FLAC (44.1K) or TIDAL upsampled with HQ Player to DSD 256?


----------



## mtoc

superdad said:


> I was told (by Tim at Kitsune) that the resistor ladder modules for the Level 3 are hand-selected by the designer.


 
  
 That is not true I am afraid. afaik, Lev 3 has more-expensive toroidal transformer, more-expensive internal cables, Jensen caps on the PSU and two Mundorf caps at the AC inlet which contains a 115/230V selector. That's all.

 Dont bite me..
  
 same ladder modules (hand-selecting and putting into ageing room and set the temperature and next step next step)
  
 correct: one Mundorf


----------



## mtoc

torq said:


> The principle difference between the Level 1 and the Level 3 *IS* the power-supply.


 
  
 Correct: IS the caps on the power-supply and one of the two trannies. PSU and transformer are two different things. In this case, PSU is part of the main boards. That PCB which has a smaller transformer is not PSU. it's a PCB/board mount transformer.


----------



## Tboooe

superdad said:


> Actually, I was told (by Tim at Kitsune) that the resistor ladder modules for the Level 3 are hand-selected by the designer.  That's the primary reason I went for the Level 3.  I'm sure the PS stuff helps as well, but the modules are the core of the DAC and having ones selected for greater precision is compelling to me.


 
  
  


mtoc said:


> That is not true I am afraid. afaik, Lev 3 has more-expensive toroidal transformer, more-expensive internal cables, Jensen caps on the PSU and two Mundorf caps at the AC inlet which contains a 115/230V selector. That's all.
> 
> Dont bite me..
> 
> ...


 
 I get the impression that Tim is a straight up guy that would not knowingly mislead @superdad.  However, that would really suck if superdad spent more money than he would have otherwise based on erroneous information.   @mtoc how do you know that the resistors are not specifically matched for the Level 3.  
  
@bimmer100 care to comment?


----------



## Torq

I've got no idea if the DAC modules are hand-picked or not. But if the linear compensation scheme that is the core of the Spring DAC works the way I understand it too, it shouldn't matter.

As for the PSU ... the various regulators that live downstream from the transformers, rectification and filtering, which is the bulk of what differentiates the KTE/Level 3 model, are unchanged. So, effectively, you're still paying for the upgraded PSU ... it's just not upgrading every single component in the total power implementation. For practical purposes, that IS the PSU.


----------



## bimmer100

Actually superdad indeed got a hand selected level 3 DAC module. And many others had unknowingly received one too. It's something we have that doesn't have hand matched resistors as those are not as important in the linear compensated DAC. But each module is tested during QA and several modules simply perform slightly better than our average module. These all end up in being our hand selected modules. They measure about 1-3% better than average specs published and I did tell superdad he would get a DAC with a hand selected module. Some get better numbers than others but only found on the KTE dacs. I can't promise these gains on every single KTE DAC, although I can say you won't get them on less than. And they are not being sold or able to request them. Many of the KTE's have had these installed yet I don't advertise it for the fact we have a limited amount. I recall superdad asking about selected resistors, and I simply let the cat out of the bag so to speak. It's not something I think is a huge deal, but a nice perk if you get one. It's a small gain, but with all the mods the KTE has, it simply adds up in the end. 
So to hopefully this clears things up. It's true what he says, as we have installed these in many many KTE dacs and haven't mentioned it for the fact it's just something we can't offer to everyone consistently. So some may be 1%, 2% or 3%. All should be at the very least case be the same as our advertised specs. 
The PSU is essentially the majority of improvements of the KTE over the L2. 

-Tim


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Is there such thing as an I2S RJ45 to HDMI adapter?

 So far the AES/EBU connection has been great and an upgrade from the BNC connection (it seems) but would like to try I2S if it's that much of an upgrade as everyone says.


----------



## Sherwood

It is certainly possible, you would just need to map the pins correctly.  There are field-crimpable HDMI connectors, and you could cut the end off an existing ethernet cable to test.  Properly specced HDMI cables use a different geometry than ethernet cables, I believe, but for I2S purposes it shouldn't matter.


----------



## mav52

tboooe said:


> While I wait for my Level 3 to be delivered I am already thinking of what mods I could do to it. One area I'm really interested in is the power supply. In particular I am wondering if it's possible to supply DC power directly to the Spring? Has anyone opened up their Spring to see how easy it would be to bypass the AC supply? What DC voltage is needed?


 
  
 Interesting , why purchase a level 3, why not just purchase a level 1 and mod it like crazy.    Explain .


----------



## Tboooe

mav52 said:


> Interesting , why purchase a level 3, why not just purchase a level 1 and mod it like crazy.    Explain .


 
 Sure, I explained already but here goes...I am not sure if getting a Level 1 and modding it like crazy would result in better sound  than the standard Level 3.  I would rather start at the highest level I was willing to spend money on (Level 3) and see if I can improve on that baseline.


----------



## mav52

tboooe said:


> Sure, I explained already but here goes...I am not sure if getting a Level 1 and modding it like crazy would result in better sound  than the standard Level 3.  I would rather start at the highest level I was willing to spend money on (Level 3) and see if I can improve on that baseline.


 
 I see you're point.  Thanks


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I presume i2s rj45 and hdmi have a standardized pin-out? I'm a bit surprised not more is written on this.. or is it just blatantly simple? 





sherwood said:


> It is certainly possible, you would just need to map the pins correctly.  There are field-crimpable HDMI connectors, and you could cut the end off an existing ethernet cable to test.  Properly specced HDMI cables use a different geometry than ethernet cables, I believe, but for I2S purposes it shouldn't matter.







soundsgoodtome said:


> Is there such thing as an I2S RJ45 to HDMI adapter?
> 
> 
> So far the AES/EBU connection has been great and an upgrade from the BNC connection (it seems) but would like to try I2S if it's that much of an upgrade as everyone says.


----------



## Sherwood

soundsgoodtome said:


> I presume i2s rj45 and hdmi have a standardized pin-out? I'm a bit surprised not more is written on this.. or is it just blatantly simple?


 
  
 It's not _blatantly_ simple, and there is nothing even approaching a standard.  The most common pinout using an HDMI connector is the one established by PS audio.  Basically, every product that provides i2s out does so in its own way, and uses connections that were not designed for this purpose.  There's a thread on DIYAudio that covers a similar use case, and includes pinout diagrams for anyone interested in trying.
  
 Using i2s over a cable, rather than directly soldered in the DAC, is a pretty niche thing.  The Singxer SU-1 has dipswitches to modify the pinout, though thankfully the Holo audio uses the PS Audio pinout, which is the most common.  
  
 Audio-GD and the offramp both use the RJ45 method.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

sherwood said:


> It's not _blatantly_ simple, and there is nothing even approaching a standard.  The most common pinout using an HDMI connector is the one established by PS audio.  Basically, every product that provides i2s out does so in its own way, and uses connections that were not designed for this purpose.  There's a thread on DIYAudio that covers a similar use case, and includes pinout diagrams for anyone interested in trying.
> 
> Using i2s over a cable, rather than directly soldered in the DAC, is a pretty niche thing.  The Singxer SU-1 has dipswitches to modify the pinout, though thankfully the Holo audio uses the PS Audio pinout, which is the most common.
> 
> Audio-GD and the offramp both use the RJ45 method.


 

 Any way you can get those two JPG files for me on the 2nd post?



 I suppose the other question is what other DDC is there besides the Singxer SU1 can the Spring Dac directly plug into via HDMI?


----------



## Sherwood

soundsgoodtome said:


> Any way you can get those two JPG files for me on the 2nd post?
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose the other question is what other DDC is there besides the Singxer SU1 can the Spring Dac directly plug into via HDMI?


 
 Both your questions can be answered with one link to Jesus at Sonore's comprehensive Google Doc on i2s compliant interfaces.  That said, if you're embarking on making yourself an RJ45 -> HDMI i2s cable, you should have a forum registration at DIYAudio.  You will undoubtedly have questions they could help answer.


----------



## motberg

sherwood said:


> It's not _blatantly_ simple, and there is nothing even approaching a standard.  The most common pinout using an HDMI connector is the one established by PS audio.  Basically, every product that provides i2s out does so in its own way, and uses connections that were not designed for this purpose.  There's a thread on DIYAudio that covers a similar use case, and includes pinout diagrams for anyone interested in trying.
> 
> Using i2s over a cable, rather than directly soldered in the DAC, is a pretty niche thing.  The Singxer SU-1 has dipswitches to modify the pinout, though thankfully the Holo audio uses the PS Audio pinout, which is the most common.
> 
> Audio-GD and the offramp both use the RJ45 method.


 

 Actually Audio-GD offers HDMI i2S connection also.
 I used a SU-1 to my Audio-GD Master 7 with the default SU-1 settings (all switches at bottom?) and worked fine.
  
 The OR5 was also available with HDMI i2S, but would need very carefully check the pinouts as you mention above.
  
 I preferred my Tanly DDC to the SU-1, but I think the SU-1 with some power supply mods would be pretty close to as good as you could get currently for a HDMI i2S DDC at a reasonable price..


----------



## Jozurr

Has anyone noticed big differences between the SE and Balanced outputs?


----------



## joseph69

jozurr said:


> Has anyone noticed big differences between the SE and Balanced outputs?


 
 Have you?


----------



## ZGojira

Yes...SE seems to be louder, and maybe slightly brighter?
 Other than that I haven't had time to do any extensive listening tests.


----------



## Jozurr

joseph69 said:


> Have you?


 
 I might not have phrased the question right. I plan to buy the Holo and have a SE amp and hence the question. ARE there any differences between SE and balanced outputs?


----------



## joseph69

jozurr said:


> I might not have phrased the question right. I plan to buy the Holo and have a SE amp and hence the question. ARE there any differences between SE and balanced outputs?


 
 I'm waiting for mine.


----------



## Tboooe

Just an FYI...Looks like Kitsune is having a sale on the Holo DACs as well as a nice bundle with the Singxer SU-1. Hopefully I'll get my Level3 soon!


----------



## joseph69

Holo USA is showing 7 Level 3 "KTE" DAC's in stock for the next order.
 I would think previous orders should expected soon.


----------



## TimeLord

tboooe said:


> Just an FYI...Looks like Kitsune is having a sale on the Holo DACs as well as a nice bundle with the Singxer SU-1. Hopefully I'll get my Level3 soon!


 

 That is a good deal. I'm waiting on mine to arrive. For those that already have it, what kind of AES/EBU cable or coaxial cable are you using and why?


----------



## oneguy

joseph69 said:


> Holo USA is showing 7 Level 3 "KTE" DAC's in stock for the next order.
> I would think previous orders should expected soon.




I think that just means he has some spots to sell as he is allocating spots in a batch for shipping in mid February which is the same general timeframe given for those sold at the end of December.


----------



## joseph69

oneguy said:


> I think that just means he has some spots to sell as he is allocating spots in a batch for shipping in mid February which is the same general timeframe given for those sold at the end of December.


 
 Could be?


----------



## mav52

Looks like there is trouble is special dac land
  
 see post 208
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/holo-audio-spring-digital-analogue-converter-r2r-dsd512-29319/index9.html


----------



## T Bone

pbelo said:


> All R2R and for me I prefer in sequence , the Rockna Platinium Bal , the PD2 and last the Holo.


 
  
 With price points of about €11'900 and €6'000 respectively, I doubt you're going to sway potential Spring Holo buyers.


----------



## joseph69

mav52 said:


> Looks like there is trouble is special dac land
> see post 208
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/holo-audio-spring-digital-analogue-converter-r2r-dsd512-29319/index9.html


 
 After seeing this deal, I said to myself "I paid more for both (not much) this iss a better deal and the price of the Level 3 price was supposed to increase after the New Year"? Didn't make much sense to me for those who ordered before the New Year.


----------



## T Bone

joseph69 said:


> After seeing this deal, I said to myself "I paid more for both (not much) this iss a better deal and the price of the Level 3 price was supposed to increase after the New Year"? Didn't make much sense to me for those who ordered before the New Year.


 
 I'm just chalking it up to growing pains at a new business.  Mistakes will be made - how you deal with them is what matters.


----------



## joseph69

t bone said:


> I'm just chalking it up to growing pains at a new business.  Mistakes will be made - how you deal with them is what matters.


 
 I totally agree, which is why I wasn't going to ask for the same deal to save a few dollars.
 I'm just glad to be in the queue for late January/mid February.


----------



## potterma

Really?  People were asking for retroactive deals?  Really people?  Not cool.


----------



## Thenewguy007

potterma said:


> Really?  People were asking for retroactive deals?  Really people?  Not cool.




Most companies do give 7 days to get a price adjustment. At least that's what the standard has settled down to for most companies.


----------



## mscott58

Have to admit that when I saw the deal I reached out to Tim, as I had also just gotten my L3. However, then I thought better of it and dropped it. Tim's doing good work and I feel that he deserves the money he's making and a few extra dollars in my pocket was not important.
  
 Tim doesn't make much on the Level 3's (probably less than the L1's or L2's) due to the mods, and I think the SU-1 offer was a way to incentivize purchases without cutting into muscle on the L3's margins. However, as they say - no good deed goes unpunished...
  
 Keep up the good work Tim!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

potterma said:


> Really?  People were asking for retroactive deals?  Really people?  Not cool.


 

 Where? I want a SU1 for a good deal, I had a LVL3 for the past 2 months already but missing that final piece...


----------



## T Bone

mscott58 said:


> Tim's doing good work and I feel that he deserves the money he's making and a few extra dollars in my pocket was not important.
> 
> Keep up the good work Tim!


 
  
 As a business owner, I agree - Tim is doing good work.  Every business owner needs profit.  You can't expand or innovate at break-even margins.


----------



## WNBC

Tim was great in getting me the Holo DAC last month.  All of you lucky guys outside of Washington state don't get hit 10% sales tax.  Tim please move to Oregon   Looking forward to future transactions with Kitsune, hmmm....Mammoth or iCan Pro?


----------



## pureangus62

After reading the thread that was linked in computeraudiophile, I think I'm more pumped about the PCM only and DIY models in the works. While the Spring is no doubt fantastic, I don't really need DSD and will welcome saving a decent amount of money doing some self-assembly


----------



## axle_69

Any reviews for levels 1 and or 2, and comparison with Gungnir Multibit (and why not Yggdrasil) and Metrum Musette (and why not the Menuete as well)?
  
 Looking at the reviews the level 3 seems to be preferred to the Yggy in NOS mode whereas the Yggy takes the lead in upsampling mode. Do you know of any player with an up sampling algorithm as good as the one implemented in Yggy that preserves the original data and “just” fills between samples?


----------



## Energy

axle_69 said:


> Any reviews for levels 1 and or 2, and comparison with Gungnir Multibit (and why not Yggdrasil) and Metrum Musette (and why not the Menuete as well)?
> 
> Looking at the reviews the level 3 seems to be preferred to the Yggy in NOS mode whereas the Yggy takes the lead in upsampling mode. Do you know of any player with an up sampling algorithm as good as the one implemented in Yggy that preserves the original data and “just” fills between samples?


 
  
 I've had Level 1 and 2. Sounded both very similar to me. Maybe off by 2-3%. Might be placebo. I'm sure the level 3 makes it's way towards something more distinct.
  
 In NOS mode I preferred the Spring. OS I preferred Yggdrasil.
 In NOS mode I preferred the Metrum Pavane over the Holo Audio Spring but by a small amount.
  
_If anyone is departing their Holo Audio Spring let me know. I need another for the living room._


----------



## joseph69

Received the Spring Level 3 today and took a quick listen in (NOS) with 44/96/176kHz files using my MBP (10.8.5/JRiver MC21(latest firmware) via USB. XMOS is the output clock source in MIDI set up on the Mac as well as the core audio in JRiver. The Spring displayed my 44/96 files but wouldn't display the 176 file, it displayed 96kHz during playback, and playback was fine. Has anyone encountered this issue using the above (or a windows/different software) with the Springs kHz display mode in (NOS)? FWIW my PWD-ll displayed the kHz being played without issue.
  
 I have yet to go into JRiver setting because I'm not too familiar with them, but as I mentioned, both my MBP/JRiver is recognizing the Spring and are both selected for playback which is fine. Any thoughts/experiences/suggestions would be much appreciated, thanks.


----------



## Tboooe

joseph69 said:


> Received the Spring Level 3 today and took a quick listen in (NOS) with 44/96/176kHz files using my MBP (10.8.5/JRiver MC21(latest firmware) via USB. XMOS is the output clock source in MIDI set up on the Mac as well as the core audio in JRiver. The Spring displayed my 44/96 files but wouldn't display the 176 file, it displayed 96kHz during playback, and playback was fine. Has anyone encountered this issue using the above (or a windows/different software) with the Springs kHz display mode in (NOS)? FWIW my PWD-ll displayed the kHz being played without issue.
> 
> I have yet to go into JRiver setting because I'm not too familiar with them, but as I mentioned, both my MBP/JRiver is recognizing the Spring and are both selected for playback which is fine. Any thoughts/experiences/suggestions would be much appreciated, thanks.


 
 I am jealous!  I cant help you since I have not received my Spring yet.  When did you order?
  
 Regarding MC21, are you sure you dont have it set to downsample 176 files to 96? Your PWD is correctly displaying 176?


----------



## joseph69

tboooe said:


> I am jealous!  I cant help you since I have not received my Spring yet.  When did you order?
> 
> Regarding MC21, are you sure you dont have it set to downsample 176 files to 96? Your PWD is correctly displaying 176?


 
 I ordered late November IIRC.
 No, I didn't go into JRiver settings yet, but my PWD-ll displayed the kHz fine.


----------



## joseph69

tboooe said:


> Regarding MC21, are you sure you dont have it set to downsample 176 files to 96? Your PWD is correctly displaying 176?


 
  So I went into my JRiver MC21 settings as followed: tools>audio>options>dsp&output format and changed all of my output setting to 
 "no change" to match the input settings. Now the Spring is displaying the correct format. 
  
 I never went into this setting before, and as you mentioned above "176 was downsampling to 96" (it's the only 176 file I have) without me even knowing. Funny thing is, with the PWD showed 176 on the display window, but the Spring didn't?
  
 Thank you for bringing this to my attention prior to going into JRiver settings, I appreciate it very much!


----------



## Tboooe

Sweet! Glad you figured it out! Strange about the PWD though. What does the top window in MC show?

I am hoping to get my Spring soon!!!


----------



## joseph69

tboooe said:


> Sweet! Glad you figured it out! Strange about the PWD though. What does the top window in MC show?
> 
> I am hoping to get my Spring soon!!!


 
 Which top window?


----------



## Tboooe

Sorry for not being more clear. I mean during playback, the top little window in MC that shows title, time remaining, etc. I believe it also shows the sample rate. I'm just perplexed about the PWD so I want to verify what it is MC thinks it's playing.


----------



## joseph69

tboooe said:


> Sorry for not being more clear. I mean during playback, the top little window in MC that shows title, time remaining, etc. I believe it also shows the sample rate. I'm just perplexed about the PWD so I want to verify what it is MC thinks it's playing.


 
 Yes, the status bars shows everything you've mentioned.
 I'm also wondering why the PWd showed the correct format? Maybe JRiver settings defaulted after removing the PWD and adding the Spring?


----------



## N15M0

I'm considering between this and the rockna wavedream. Any inputs? Thanks. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Tboooe

joseph69 said:


> Yes, the status bars shows everything you've mentioned.
> I'm also wondering why the PWd showed the correct format? Maybe JRiver settings defaulted after removing the PWD and adding the Spring?


 
 Strange! So in order to get the Spring  to play at 176 do you have to go back into MC DSP settings and adjust the output format settings again?  I dont think MC would change its settings automatically when you removed the PWD.


----------



## joseph69

tboooe said:


> Strange! So in order to get the Spring  to play at 176 do you have to go back into MC DSP settings and adjust the output format settings again?  I dont think MC would change its settings automatically when you removed the PWD.


 
 No, I don't have to touch any settings anymore, whatever goes in comes out  after changing all of my output format settings to "no change". Don't know why the PWD recognized 176 when it should have down sampled to 96 due to the way the settings were.


----------



## Tboooe

joseph69 said:


> No, I don't have to touch any settings anymore, whatever goes in comes out  after changing all of my output format settings to "no change". Don't know why the PWD recognized 176 when it should have down sampled to 96 due to the way the settings were.


 
 Well just glad it got sorted!  So on to the real question...how does it sound????


----------



## joseph69

Quote:


tboooe said:


> Well just glad it got sorted!  So on to the real question...how does it sound????


 
  
 Yes, definitely glad everything is fine.
  
 The immediate difference (and I mean immediate) I noticed was that imaging. 
 The very first song I listened to was "Sugar" by David Sanborn (96kHz). To be honest, the first few notes of the song imaged so differently that I thought I had possibly crossed the L/R channels when changing out the DACs because I was so used to this songs presentation through the PWD-ll. Instruments separation was spacious and placed very well. The sound-stage was wider as well.
  
 Continuing to listen last night for about 4hrs I found that when I turned the volume up to hear some favorite passages (horns) there were no sign of sibilance or spikes in the upper frequencies. The Spring stayed very well controlled. Not much more to say at this point with such little experience with the exception of I'm really looking forward to the Springs performance after sufficient burn-in time being I've heard some positive differences from the beginning.
  
 EDIT: This was in NOS mode.


----------



## Tboooe

Thank you very much for your reply.  I really appreciate it.  I've got another month or so to wait for my Spring L3.


----------



## joseph69

tboooe said:


> Thank you very much for your reply.  I really appreciate it.  I've got another month or so to wait for my Spring L3.


 
 Your welcome.
 And thank you again as well!


----------



## T Bone

I've just taken delivery of my Holo Spring DAC and thought I'd share a couple of early impressions on usability.  
 (_I'll refrain from sharing my thoughts on performance until it has had a chance to burn in_)
  
 As version 1.0 product, I feel that the Spring DAC suffers from a couple of quirks.
  
 (1) The display is HUGE and ridiculously bright.  Forget about being able to read the display across the room.  
 Your _*neighbors*_ will be to clearly read "44.1K" or "DSD64X" on the display.
 (2) The "Display Intensity" button seems like it doesn't do anything the first 8x or so pushes.  The first time couple of times I pressed the button, I thought it was broken!  After you smack it a doze times you can see the display actually dim.  Basically you have to hit the display intensity button like a 13 year old working a game controller.
 (3) If you switch off the display entirely, there is no visual indication at all that the unit is powered on.  A small power light would be a welcome improvement.  
 (4) The display only shows you the current input sample rate.  It does not display which oversampling mode is in use.   It would be nice to have a visual indication of whether the current mode is "OS", "NOS", "OS PCM" or "OS DSD".


----------



## joseph69

t bone said:


> I've just taken delivery of my Holo Spring DAC and thought I'd share a couple of early impressions on usability.
> (_I'll refrain from sharing my thoughts on performance until it has had a chance to burn in_)
> 
> As version 1.0 product, I feel that the Spring DAC suffers from a couple of quirks.
> ...


 
 What about the initial sound without burn-in right out of the box?
 Did you notice any immediate differences from your prior DAC? 
 By the way, I love the huge display!


----------



## T Bone

joseph69 said:


> What about the initial sound without burn-in right out of the box?
> Did you notice any immediate differences from your prior DAC?
> By the way, I love the huge display!


 
  
 I don't want to go into detail because on my sound impressions because I think it's premature to judge a component fresh off the delivery van.  
  
 Before ordering my Spring DAC I spent 30 days evaluating Benchmark's brand new DAC3 (based on Saber's 9028 chipset).  Benchmark makes a great DAC so the bar has been set rather high.  
  
 I will post my Level 1 feedback after I've given the unit a fair shake.


----------



## Benny-x

joseph69 said:


> Yes, definitely glad everything is fine.
> 
> The immediate difference (and I mean immediate) I noticed was that imaging.
> The very first song I listened to was "Sugar" by David Sanborn (96kHz). To be honest, the first few notes of the song imaged so differently that I thought I had possibly crossed the L/R channels when changing out the DACs because I was so used to this songs presentation through the PWD-ll. Instruments separation was spacious and placed very well. The sound-stage was wider as well.
> ...



I also have the PWD MkII and I was wondering what you thought of the bass performance of the Spring compared to the PWD so far? I find the bass one of the most attractive features of the PWD MkII and I haven't found a DAC that competes with it yet.



t bone said:


> I don't want to go into detail because on my sound impressions because I think it's premature to judge a component fresh off the delivery van.
> 
> I will post my Level 1 feedback after I've given the unit a fair shake.



Maybe he was kidding? I read that post like a fake trolling attempt because it sounded so counter to exactly what you'd said right before it. Hah...


----------



## joseph69

benny-x said:


> I also have the PWD MkII and I was wondering what you thought of the bass performance of the Spring compared to the PWD so far? I find the bass one of the most attractive features of the PWD MkII and I haven't found a DAC that competes with it yet.





> Maybe he was kidding? I read that post like a fake trolling attempt because it sounded so counter to exactly what you'd said right before it. Hah...


 
  
 Not trying to knock the PWD-ll (I own it and have enjoyed it very much) but only complimenting the Spring.
  
 To answer your question about the bass, the PWD's bass sounds overwhelming/congested and bleeds into the mid-range/upper frequencies causing a lack of sound-stage/imaging and detail in comparison the the Spring.
  
 The Spring with only 120hrs+/- of burn-in and has surpassed the PWD way beyond what I expected with my 009/BHSE in NOS mode using 44/88/96/176 kHz fils. I'm not at fault for enjoying the PWD because it is a great sounding DAC but I also had nothing to compare it to which is why I was content with it (so I thought). Today I'll be receiving my SU-1 which has been burning-in and I'll throw it into the chain via i2s. I don't want  to sound like I'm exaggerating, but so far the Spring has opened up a whole new listening level and experience for me to say the very least. I must also say, I was very skeptical about the Spring (naturally) being it is a fairly new product  with not too many reviews (which I take with a grain of salt anyway) and having never heard it as well. So far it's a night/day difference/improvement for me, and in all honesty, I couldn't be happier with the purchase. 
  
 ​I also wasn't joking about asking for an *initial* impression (right out of the box) because I immediately heard a difference, so I was seriously asking.


----------



## Articnoise

t bone said:


> I don't want to go into detail because on my sound impressions because I think it's premature to judge a component fresh off the delivery van.
> 
> Before ordering my Spring DAC I spent 30 days evaluating Benchmark's brand new DAC3 (based on Saber's 9028 chipset).  Benchmark makes a great DAC so the bar has been set rather high.
> 
> I will post my Level 1 feedback after I've given the unit a fair shake.


 
  

 The fact that you are waiting with your sound impressions until you had time to really burn it in and listen to it speaks high of your understanding and evaluation method.


----------



## erik701

Hello guys,
  
 I'm looking for new DAC for my rig. Currently I'm using OPPO HA-1 as a DAC. Initially I planned to buy Sonica DAC, but I'm reading very positive reviews on HOLO DAC and I think it will be better option as well. Sonica DAC is still not released.
  
 So I would like to ask where to buy Level 3 version of Holo DAC in Europe? I want to avoid pay additional money during tax clearance process...
  
 THANK YOU


----------



## Benny-x

joseph69 said:


> To answer your question about the bass, the PWD's bass sounds overwhelming/congested and bleeds into the mid-range/upper frequencies causing a lack of sound-stage/imaging and detail in comparison the the Spring.
> 
> The Spring with only 120hrs+/- of burn-in and has surpassed the PWD way beyond what I expected with my 009/BHSE in NOS mode using 44/88/96/176 kHz fils. I'm not at fault for enjoying the PWD because it is a great sounding DAC but I also had nothing to compare it to which is why I was content with it (so I thought). Today I'll be receiving my SU-1 which has been burning-in and I'll throw it into the chain via i2s. I don't want  to sound like I'm exaggerating, but so far the Spring has opened up a whole new listening level and experience for me to say the very least. I must also say, I was very skeptical about the Spring (naturally) being it is a fairly new product  with not too many reviews (which I take with a grain of salt anyway) and having never heard it as well. So far it's a night/day difference/improvement for me, and in all honesty, I couldn't be happier with the purchase.


 
 All good points for the Spring. I'm really wondering where HOLO Audio can go with their next tier up May DAC? Like the price to performance of the Spring continues to sound pretty amazing, so it really makes you wonder what their May DAC will turn out like and, maybe, if the Spring will still be "good enough" after the May is released next year. By "good enough" I just mean it would be tough to justify the money on the May given how good the Spring already is for the price. I'm excited to see/hear.
  
 As for the PWD, when you get the SU-1, try feeding the PWD via its I2s sockets as well. I've been listening to my PWD Mkii that way for about 1.5yrs now and I found it a nice step up compared to the USB input or even the SPDIF one. I'm not saying that will make it compete with the Spring, but I think it'd be interesting since you'll have an I2s source in house and you can compare the 2 on equal ground; best input to best input. Let me know if you can!


----------



## joseph69

articnoise said:


> The fact that you are waiting with your sound impressions until you had time to really burn it in and listen to it speaks high of your understanding and evaluation method.


 
 I cant help but feel you're indirectly aiming this post at my *initial* impressions as if they have no influence at all in relation to sufficient burn-in.
  
*Initial:* Existing or occurring at the beginning.
  
 I'm also waiting for my unit to sufficiently burn-in. These were my initial impressions. which for me are very important. From my *initial* impressions, I find I have a relatively positive understanding if I'm going to lean towards liking something or not, although this does not determine the end results.
  
Quote
  
  

 PM sent.


----------



## WNBC

Indeed, nothing wrong with posting initial impressions or not posting initial impressions.  Those that do, as I have, are usually excited about the product and others would like to hear initial impressions as well.  Since it has been stated that burn in is required the initial impressions will change and usually for the better.  I knew a guy that would take meticulous notes with each listening session.  He had an amazing ear after years of being a studio engineer.  I'm not that involved so getting out a post or two with initial impressions is the best I could do for any documentation.  After that, my long term audio memory is not great.
  
  
 Quote:


joseph69 said:


> I cant help but feel you're indirectly aiming this post at my *initial* impressions as if they have no influence at all in relation to sufficient burn-in.
> 
> *Initial:* Existing or occurring at the beginning.
> 
> ...


----------



## Articnoise

joseph69 said:


> I cant help but feel you're indirectly aiming this post at my *initial* impressions as if they have no influence at all in relation to sufficient burn-in.
> 
> *Initial:* Existing or occurring at the beginning.
> 
> ...


 
  

 I was not aiming at you. Am okay with initial impressions, naturally. For reviews and more final sound impressions I appreciate those that take their time and not rush it. Others may value a different evaluation method.


----------



## joseph69

articnoise said:


> I was not aiming at you. Am okay with initial impressions, naturally. For reviews and more final sound impressions I appreciate those that take their time and not rush it. Others may value a different evaluation method.


 
 My apologies.


----------



## mock-up

Actual measurements are slighlty different from manufacturer's one. Sorry in Russian
  

  
  
 http://dastereo.ru/t/holo-audio-spring-dac-r2r-dsd512/2075/3936?u=dmitre


----------



## T Bone

Thanks to google translate I was able to get the gist of the thread. I'm no engineer, but those graphs look horrible!


----------



## potterma

t bone said:


> Thanks to google translate I was able to get the gist of the thread. I'm no engineer, but those graphs look horrible!


 

 Yeah, can't wait to hook up my low buck o'scope to the output when my Level 3 arrives.  Something doesn't look right, for sure, but I'm not certain its the DAC output at fault...  Grain of salt, and all.
  
 All I can say at this point is that neither Gungnir MB nor Jotunheim (through the internal DAC module) look anything like what is shown there.  I suspect operator error, but time will tell.


----------



## guymrob

I've been using the Holo Spring Audio R2R DAC for a while and was really impressed with the sound quality. I've wrote a short review and posted on the blog. Enjoy!
  
 http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=245672.0
  
 Cheer,
 Guy


----------



## mscott58

Got my Singxer SU-1 today and hooked it up to the Holo Spring L3 and it's working first try! Thanks Tim for the instructions and links on the Kitsune site. More to come after listening and settling in for a while. Cheers


----------



## guymrob

I'm curious how Singxer SU-1 sounds compared to Holo Spring Audio DAC USB input. I'm reluctant to jump coz Singxer cannot do DSD512 natively via HQPlayer without Windows certified Thesycon ASIO USB driver. It can only do up to DSD256 via DoP.

The Holo Audio Spring USB input comes with its own Windows certified Thesycon ASIO USB driver that can do DSD512, Which is important especially if you are using Windows PC to stream music to the DAC.


----------



## T Bone

guymrob said:


> I'm curious how Singxer SU-1 sounds compared to Holo Spring Audio DAC USB input


 
 Thanks to @bimmer100, I will soon have a Singxer SU-1 to evaluate and will be able to compare USB to I2S performance
  


guymrob said:


> I'm reluctant to jump coz Singxer cannot do DSD512 natively via HQPlayer without Windows certified Thesycon ASIO USB driver. It can only do up to DSD256 via DoP.


 
 I have a fair amount of SACD / DSD64 content in my library.  I have just a handful of DSD512 content - all just test/evaluation tracks.  Do you really have enough DSD512 content to hinge your purchasing decision on?  I love the really hi-resolution formats, but its kind of a novelty for me.  Native DSD support was a "must have" requirement for me and was a key factor in swaying me from a Schitt Yggdrasil to the Holo Spring DAC.  I don't know if native DSD512 support would sway from a Singxer SU-1 in light of its performance in just about every other criteria.


----------



## inthere

So does delivery time from ordering reflect the 3 weeks time mentioned on the website?


----------



## T Bone

inthere said:


> So does delivery time from ordering reflect the 3 weeks time mentioned on the website?


 
 Your best bet is to contact Tim @ Kitsune directly and see what their build pipeline looks like.  They have had issues with parts availability in the past and that has delayed orders before.  
 I was pleasantly surprised to get my unit ahead of schedule.


----------



## Tboooe

guymrob said:


> I've been using the Holo Spring Audio R2R DAC for a while and was really impressed with the sound quality. I've wrote a short review and posted on the blog. Enjoy!
> 
> http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=245672.0
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you so much for the review.  The points you make about timbre really appeals to me.  I am pumped to get my Level 3 in a few weeks.


mscott58 said:


> Got my Singxer SU-1 today and hooked it up to the Holo Spring L3 and it's working first try! Thanks Tim for the instructions and links on the Kitsune site. More to come after listening and settling in for a while. Cheers


 
  
 I also have the SU-1. Are you using I2S connection to your L3?  What is your software playback?


----------



## Benny-x

t bone said:


> I have a fair amount of SACD / DSD64 content in my library.  I have just a handful of DSD512 content - all just test/evaluation tracks.  Do you really have enough DSD512 content to hinge your purchasing decision on?  I love the really hi-resolution formats, but its kind of a novelty for me.  Native DSD support was a "must have" requirement for me and was a key factor in swaying me from a Schitt Yggdrasil to the Holo Spring DAC.  I don't know if native DSD512 support would sway from a Singxer SU-1 in light of its performance in just about every other criteria.


 
 guymrob can step in to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his mention of HQPlayer meant that he's doing the PCM or DSD whatever to DSD512 conversion that's been so hot in the forums since mid-summer 2016. With this, no one needs native DSD512 content or even DSD content, as HQPlayer and it's specialty algorithms are doing all the upsampling. 
  
 So far the feedback on the jump to HQPlayer upsampled DSD512 has been pretty impressive from audio lovers of all walks, on the precious few DACs that can handle it. Something to think about and not your run of the mill, pointless upsampling.


----------



## mscott58

tboooe said:


> I also have the SU-1. Are you using I2S connection to your L3?  What is your software playback?


 
 Yep, got the SU-1 specifically for the I2S connection to the L3. Using JRMC, and seems to be working well. Haven't gone about tweaking the settings yet though. Cheers


----------



## T Bone

benny-x said:


> I believe his mention of HQPlayer meant that he's doing the PCM or DSD whatever to DSD512 conversion


 
 Ok - that would make sense then.  I'm not familiar with HQPlayer
 Not sure why folks would want to do "software based" upsampling when the DAC in question offers a "hardware based" upsampling mode.  Do what 'ya like I guess - If it works him, rock on!


----------



## Torq

t bone said:


> Ok - that would make sense then.  I'm not familiar with HQPlayer
> Not sure why folks would want to do "software based" upsampling when the DAC in question offers a "hardware based" upsampling mode.  Do what 'ya like I guess - If it works him, rock on!


 

 The hardware up sampling on the Holo Spring is a bit primitive.  If I recall correctly it's a simple 4x implementation using CoTS silicon and when engaged it just sucks the life out of the music (for me).  
  
 It's also just limited to on/off/DSD/PCM settings and doesn't have anything like the flexibility of HQPlayer.


----------



## Benny-x

t bone said:


> Ok - that would make sense then.  I'm not familiar with HQPlayer
> Not sure why folks would want to do "software based" upsampling when the DAC in question offers a "hardware based" upsampling mode.  Do what 'ya like I guess - If it works him, rock on!


 
 HQPlayer is a specialty upsampling engine that has a lot of tweaks to dial in what you want as well as using highly advanced algorithms to output whatever format you want. It's basically state of the art and best of breed.
  
 I'm not as familiar with it as I'd like to be, but the idea is to use a power house of a desktop processor to do a highly complex upsample on the computer, then feed the DAC a native bitstream where the DAC chip is only attenuating the output to the analogue outs. I haven't used it to be able to comment on it, but I think the idea is to let the DAC do the simple work it's supposed to do and let the workhorse, powerhouse PC do the complex work, then smile with the end result. At least, that's what a lot of the proponents say about it.


----------



## debjitg

Are folks using the NOS mode and up-sampling everything to DSD512 in HQP when feeding the Holo ? What is the configuration that sounds best to your ears ? Is anybody using Daphile to up-sample instead of HQP ? In my setup I find Daphile to perform better up-sampling to DSD256.


----------



## Tboooe

debjitg said:


> Are folks using the NOS mode and up-sampling everything to DSD512 in HQP when feeding the Holo ? What is the configuration that sounds best to your ears ? Is anybody using Daphile to up-sample instead of HQP ? In my setup I find Daphile to perform better up-sampling to DSD256.


 
 That seems to be the consensus...use HQP to upsample or convert to whatever you desired then just run Spring in NOS mode.  I dont have my Spring yet but that is how i intend to do it too.  As I understand the Spring internal upsampling chip is nothing special so its best to avoid it.


----------



## rafabro

debjitg said:


> Are folks using the NOS mode and up-sampling everything to DSD512 in HQP when feeding the Holo ? What is the configuration that sounds best to your ears ? Is anybody using Daphile to up-sample instead of HQP ? In my setup I find Daphile to perform better up-sampling to DSD256.


 
 For me DSD64 sounds the best. DSD 128 & 256 sounds too soft.


----------



## Superdad

debjitg said:


> Are folks using the NOS mode and up-sampling everything to DSD512 in HQP when feeding the Holo ? What is the configuration that sounds best to your ears ? Is anybody using Daphile to up-sample instead of HQP ? In my setup I find Daphile to perform better up-sampling to DSD256.


 

 Even NOS mode fed PCM 384kHz sounds great (with filters courtesy of HQ Player or Audirvana+/iZotope).  And you don't have to feel compelled to do DSD256 or DSD512.  Such can take a lot of computing power and DSD512 on a machine that is not up to it does not sound as good as DSD256 or even 128 on a machine that handles such more easily.  Just IMHO. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This DAC does need a LOT of time to begin to open up.  That is for certain.
  
 --Alex C.


----------



## T Bone

superdad said:


> This DAC does need a LOT of time to begin to open up.  That is for certain.


 
 Alex - can you elaborate on this a little more?  How long did it take for it to "open up" and what kind of changes did you notice?


----------



## Superdad

t bone said:


> Alex - can you elaborate on this a little more?  How long did it take for it to "open up" and what kind of changes did you notice?


 

 Well honestly, I am still running it in and listening once in a while when I have time (which sadly is not that often--about once a week--just too busy!).  I am hoping it will gain more depth and air.  It is very well balanced and nicely dynamic.  But I am extremely spoiled by the discrete output stage of my 10+ year old Hovland/Swenson prototype PCM1704 DAC (there are 5 power supplies in this thing).
  

  
  
*For a production DAC with terrific innovations (compensated R2R ladders, discrete DSD handling), beautiful chassis, flexible inputs (I2S, yay!), and a hard to believe great price, the HOLO Spring should be on everyone's short list.*
 Its USB input is just average, and that is all I have been using so far (but with some prototype advance USB "fixers"), so I do plan to feed it this year with I2S from a board with really good clocks.   Not that I encourage modding, but I do think the Spring screams for a serious clock upgrade.  Bet a pair of Crystek CCHD-575s would take it from great to out-of-this-world.


----------



## mscott58

superdad said:


> Well honestly, I am still running it in and listening once in a while when I have time (which sadly is not that often--about once a week--just too busy!).  I am hoping it will gain more depth and air.  It is very well balanced and nicely dynamic.  But I am extremely spoiled by the discrete output stage of my 10+ year old Hovland/Swenson prototype PCM1704 DAC (there are 5 power supplies in this thing).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting thought Alex. How challenging a mod would that be I wonder? Cheers


----------



## leeg

Yeah, I too wish the Spring would've had a clock in/clock out.  It'd would've been interesting to listen to diff. clocks.


----------



## Bachstr

Help me !!!
 I have just bought​ one Holo Spring DAC level 2 (but I don't know it's correct or not). My connect: PC -->  Holo Spring DAC L2 --> RCA cable --> Cambridge CXA80 amp --> Aurum Altan VIII speaker. I've got a problem here.​ When I play a song (by JRiver v22 or Foobar2000), after some second, right channel is no sound any more​. I've tried (restart PC, turn off/on DAC, amp ...), but it just sound on left channel. Only I switch off all of them, and after one day, I play again, sound on both channels (stereo). After some second, the problem come back.
 How do I resolve​ the problem?


----------



## T Bone

Start with the easy stuff first.  Take the RCA cables coming from the DAC and going into the amplifier - switch them on the amp.  So take the left output of the DAC and put it into the right input of the amplifier.  If the dead channel moves to the other side, you know the signal coming out of the DAC is the problem.


----------



## Bachstr

t bone said:


> Start with the easy stuff first.  Take the RCA cables coming from the DAC and going into the amplifier - switch them on the amp.  So take the left output of the DAC and put it into the right input of the amplifier.  If the dead channel moves to the other side, you know the signal coming out of the DAC is the problem.


 

 ​After about 1 minute them play both of channel, the left channel is no sound (dead channel was moved). But they still play good in 1 minute before have the problem.


----------



## Sherwood

If you swap the cables, does the dead channel change sides?


----------



## guymrob

benny-x said:


> guymrob can step in to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe his mention of HQPlayer meant that he's doing the PCM or DSD whatever to DSD512 conversion that's been so hot in the forums since mid-summer 2016. With this, no one needs native DSD512 content or even DSD content, as HQPlayer and it's specialty algorithms are doing all the upsampling.
> 
> So far the feedback on the jump to HQPlayer upsampled DSD512 has been pretty impressive from audio lovers of all walks, on the precious few DACs that can handle it. Something to think about and not your run of the mill, pointless upsampling.




Converting PCM to DSD512 in PC requires hell a lot of processing power, while up-sampling DSD64 to DSD512 is less resources hungry. Please note that Holo Spring DAC also offer PCM to DSD256 conversion using its internal AK4137 SRC chip, this mode is called 'OS DSD'. If you up-sample DSD64 to DSD256, then choose 'OS' mode. HQPlayer allows fine tweaking of digital filters and up conversion selections. If you use HQPlayer, then set Holo Spring to 'NOS' mode.


----------



## Sherwood

The general consensus, which I can echo here, is that you should _always_ use NOS mode.  I prefer to use HQP to upsample PCM and DSD separately, but if I didn't have it I'd still run the HOLO in NOS mode.  The AK4137 is absolutely capable of upsampling whatever you feed it, but it does a poor enough job that you're better off omitting it.


----------



## guymrob

sherwood said:


> The general consensus, which I can echo here, is that you should _always_ use NOS mode.  I prefer to use HQP to upsample PCM and DSD separately, but if I didn't have it I'd still run the HOLO in NOS mode.  The AK4137 is absolutely capable of upsampling whatever you feed it, but it does a poor enough job that you're better off omitting it.




Have you compared subjectively to HQP vs AK4137? For me I've hard time telling the difference. I choose HQP because I've a lot options to play and tweak the sound I like. However, I find this DAC really shines when playback in its native sampling rate, i.e, NOS whether at 44.1k all the way 384k and from DSD64 to DSD256 without using HQP or AK4317.

Doing over or up-sampling somehow make the sound loses some of the edges whether it is from AK4137 or HQP. Eventually, I settled my playback without using any form over or up sampling!


----------



## mscott58

Recently added the SU-1 to the Holo Spring L3 (Kitsune) and am now running I2S into the Spring. Have had many days of it settling in now and I really like what it's done for the system. More to come later with more details and comparisons, but a thumbs-up at this point. Cheers


----------



## Bachstr

sherwood said:


> If you swap the cables, does the dead channel change sides?


 

 ​Yes, It change. Now they still play good in 2 minutes (longer) before one channel is no sound.


----------



## joseph69

bachstr said:


> *Yes, It change.* Now they still play good in 2 minutes (longer) before one channel is no sound.


 
 So that means you have 1 bad interconnect.


----------



## Bachstr

joseph69 said:


> So that means you have 1 bad interconnect.



Pls explain clearly. Now I use Inakustik NF-803 RCA interconnect


----------



## guymrob

bachstr said:


> Pls explain clearly. Now I use Inakustik NF-803 RCA interconnect




If you have tried all the interconnects, then it is likely the analogue output stage is having some problem. What are you using as input? USB or SPDIF?


----------



## Tboooe

superdad said:


> Not that I encourage modding, but I do think the Spring screams for a serious clock upgrade.  Bet a pair of Crystek CCHD-575s would take it from great to out-of-this-world.


 
 Do you need a guinea pig?? I  am all for modding!  Or if you want to point me to which component needs replacing I can give it a whack!


----------



## joseph69

bachstr said:


> Pls explain clearly. Now I use Inakustik NF-803 RCA interconnect


 
 You switched the L/R interconnects and the issue moved from 1 channel to the other, correct?
 If so, this means you have a bad interconnect.


----------



## Bachstr

guymrob said:


> If you have tried all the interconnects, then it is likely the analogue output stage is having some problem. What are you using as input? USB or SPDIF?


 
  
 I haven't tried the XLR interconnect yet. I have already tried​ USB input and SPDIF (SU-1 --> coaxial --> Holo Spring DAC). Similar results.
 The RCA interconnect is no problem if I use built-in DAC of CXA80 amp.
 My amp have Input impedances​: balanced 50 kOhm​/unbalanced 43 kOhm, and voltage output of Holo Spring DAC: 2.5Vrms (RCA)/5Vrms (XLR), does that matter?


----------



## Superdad

tboooe said:


> Do you need a guinea pig?? I  am all for modding!  Or if you want to point me to which component needs replacing I can give it a whack!


 

 Sorry, but I am not going to be doing this.  Changing surface-mount components is not my thing and is not entirely trivial.


----------



## TimeLord

My Spring Level 3 came today. I'm excited to have received it and I'm starting to put it through its paces.


----------



## Energy

timelord said:


> My Spring Level 3 came today. I'm excited to have received it and I'm starting to put it through its paces.


 
  
 Nice setup! What amplifier is that might I ask?  Are you using your SU-1 with I2S?
  
 Looks good! You must be enjoying your setup right now!  It'll open up even more given the next couple of weeks.


----------



## TimeLord

energy said:


> Nice setup! What amplifier is that might I ask?  Are you using your SU-1 with I2S?
> 
> Looks good! You must be enjoying your setup right now!  It'll open up even more given the next couple of weeks.


 

 Thanks. The amp is the Cavalli Liquid Gold and yes I am using the I2S.
  
 It sounds good straight out of the box, but I am expecting it to continue improving over the next month. Luckily, I was able to extensively audition the L3 with my own gear before purchasing it, so I knew what to expect.


----------



## lukeap69

timelord said:


> Thanks. The amp is the Cavalli Liquid Gold and yes I am using the I2S.
> 
> It sounds good straight out of the box, but I am expecting it to continue improving over the next month. Luckily, I was able to extensively audition the L3 with my own gear before purchasing it, so I knew what to expect.




Whata bloody good combination! Enjoy.


----------



## mscott58

timelord said:


> Thanks. The amp is the Cavalli Liquid Gold and yes I am using the I2S.
> 
> It sounds good straight out of the box, but I am expecting it to continue improving over the next month. Luckily, I was able to extensively audition the L3 with my own gear before purchasing it, so I knew what to expect.




Exact same stack I'm running - SU-1, Spring L3 and LAu. Good stuff. Enjoy


----------



## T Bone

timelord said:


> Thanks. The amp is the Cavalli Liquid Gold and yes I am using the I2S.


 
 ...and you casually forgot to mention the Focal's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Coveted by just about everyone who knows!
  
 That's a really sweet setup you have.  Enjoy!


----------



## TimeLord

lukeap69 said:


> Whata bloody good combination! Enjoy.


 
 It took me a while to figure it out, but I finally got there. Thanks.
  


mscott58 said:


> Exact same stack I'm running - SU-1, Spring L3 and LAu. Good stuff. Enjoy


 
 Thank you.
  


t bone said:


> ...and you casually forgot to mention the Focal's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks T Bone. The Utopia is damn good. I highly recommend it.


----------



## despinos

Hello,
 I have a Holo Spring DAC, and would like to integrate it into a home cinema, with movies played and stored in a HTPC, running Kodi and Jriver.
  
 The idea is to use the HOLO for the LR front channels (and for stereo music) and do the other Digital to Analogue conversion of surround channels with other device/s.
  
 It's like replacing the PRE-PRO (or receiver) of a Home Cinema with an HTPC an external DAC solution, but integrating the HOLO in the solution.
  
 Ideally it would work with lossless 5.1 audio formats (such as DTS Master, decoded in the PC).
  
   
For what I have read, I might require an external clock to use more than one external DAC at the same time. Th HOLO does not have a "clock in" input, so that's discarded.

  
 Anyone has integrated the Holo in a multichannel setup?


----------



## Sherwood

The HOLO doesn't have certifications to decode any of the common multichannel soundtrack formats, even if it had the channels.  You would need to separately decode each channel to PCM, then run a separate HOLO for each pair.  DTS Master HD has 8 channels, so you'll need 4 separate HOLO DACs.Unless you're just talking about using the HOLO to decode the front LR, and then using your receiver to decode the rest.
  
 Even then, though, this is not really workable.  I've never seen a receiver that can be set to mix an analog signal (from a DAC) with a digital signal from a PC, even if you could rig Kodi to simultaneously send audio out of USB and HDMI, say.
  
 I would abandon this plan.


----------



## leeg

I've been wondering kind of the same questions...Is there a way to use the Spring with a 2 ch preamp (which I haven't bought yet...I'm presently just using the XMC as my 2 ch pre and HT)  integrated to my HT processor/a Emotiva XMC-1.  No HT bypass on the XMC 1.  
 The goal is to use my 2 ch setup/preamp, but to be able to use these two channels in my HT setup.
  
 Here's the XMC's specs:  http://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/xmc-1


----------



## noshortcuts

I use an external DAC for music in my HT system. I also watch some movies in 2 channel to utilize the DAC (especially older mono/stereo movies). The HT preamp and amp are used with the music source and DAC. But that's for 2 channel listening and when using more channels the external DAC is not in the chain.


----------



## despinos

sherwood said:


> _The HOLO doesn't have certifications to decode any of the common multichannel soundtrack formats, even if it had the channels.  You would need to separately decode each channel to PCM, then run a separate HOLO for each pair.  DTS Master HD has 8 channels, so you'll need 4 separate HOLO DACs.Unless you're just talking about using the HOLO to decode the front LR, and then using your receiver to decode the rest._
> 
> _Even then, though, this is not really workable.  I've never seen a receiver that can be set to mix an analog signal (from a DAC) with a digital signal from a PC, even if you could rig Kodi to simultaneously send audio out of USB and HDMI, say._
> 
> _I would abandon this plan._


 
  
 --------------------
  
 EDIT: this is in particular for people using an HTPC for movies. (you need the HTPC, which does not exclude also using a separate music source, such as CD player or Streamer). So it may work if you have just HTP or HTPC plus a dedicated music streamer). Will not work without a HTPC with Jriver installed (or equivalent. Kodi? no idea, maybe) .
  
 I think I found a solution from a thread in the Jriver forum:
 https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99428.0
  
 Posted by user "mwillems" (with some minor edits from myself to clarify)
 " [...]
_*So you need a DAC with at least two analog output channels and at least a single SPDIF output that can play something different than the analog outputs* (is *independently assignable*).  Most such devices have a USB or ADAT input._
_You'd then do your crossover filtering in JRiver and output 4 different channels audio from JRiver to the four output DAC; two channels would come out of the analog outs, and two channels would come out of the SPDIF output, which would go to your "main DAC" with the SPDIF input.  You'd then have four channels of analog output synced.  You won't be able to use your Main DAC as the clock "master" unless it has a digital output, it will have to be the clock "slave" of another DAC with a digital output._
  
_It would look like this:_
  

```
[i]JRiver  -->USB?--> 4+ Channel Audio Device (the "Pro Dac", e.g. Scarlet 6i6)--> 2+ channels analog--->preamp/amp                                      |                                      --> SPDIF --> Other DAC (edit: e.g. HOLO Spring?)--->preamp/amp [/i]
```
  
  
  
_An example:  I have a *Steinberg UR824.  It has 8 analog outputs, and 2 SPDIF outputs (each representing two channels) for 12 total channels out* (it will do more channels with ADAT, but let's bracket that out it's not relevant).  *I can assign different audio in JRiver to all 12 output channels*.  But to take advantage of those extra 4 SPDIF channels I'd need to have DACs with SPDIF inputs on the other end.  *Those DACs will play whatever I assign to their channels in JRiver*, *so they don't need to be the same as my 8 analog channels.*_
_If you're existing devices just have SPDIF outputs as a "passthrough" of their digital input, that won't help you any.  This is why I pointed out above that a single multichannel interface is usually much easier to manage._
 [...]" 





>


 
 A simple, cheap and flexible solution for 5.1 may be using something like the (about 250 USD) Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 receiving (USB) fed by Jriver. From the Scarlett, a couple of channels can be passed in digital (spdif) to the Holo audio DAC. The other channels (e.g. 2 surround, center, subwoofer) would be converted to analogue in the Scarlett, and then send as analogue from its (4 analogue RCA) outputs to a preamp. For more channels (more than 5.1) , preobably just use a Scarlett 18i20 in same way as it has more outputs.
  
 DTS and Dolby decoding would be done by Jriver (added .dll "plugin" may be required for their HD formats?
 EDIT: apparently Jriver recent versions have LAV filter to decode HD formats...).
 http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Blu-ray
_"Please Note: Versions of MC prior to 20.0.100 did not include the LAV DTS decoder capable of decoding DTS-HD Master Audio. For older versions of MC, please see the Arcsoft DTS Decoder article."_
  
  
 In the Jriver forum, they propose that solution for active filtering, because one user wants to use separate dacs for the Highs and Lows of his/her speakers.
 My guess is that similar thing can be done for multichannel movies audio (or SACD), IF jriver can output those channels decompressed from their Dolby or DTS format into separate channels (routed through USB to the external multichannel DAC) in a format that all DACs (e.g. Scarlett and Holo) can understand.
  
 Will it work? Well, If you look at minidsp website, they put as an example of use of their multichannel UDAC-8  to connect it to an HTPC with Jriver to convert digital to analogue of a multichannel (using the DSP-room correction option) with DTS and Dolby decoding done at the HTPC.
 https://www.minidsp.com/applications/60-audio-streaming/251-udac8-jriver
  
 A "limitation" of the UDAC-8 multichannel DAC is that it has no (independent) digital outs, so it cannot (easily) be combined with another dac (e.g. the HOLO). HOWEVER, I', quite sure by now that with a Pro audio multichannel DAC (Scarlet, MOTU, etc), which has digital outs independently asignable for wahtever channels you want,  that DAC combination (Scarlett and Holo, daisy chained) may be possible, so that each DAC is asigned to the channels you want for conversion to analogue.
  
 Expending more, maybe it can be possible to use a pro DAC with two digital outs   (Steinberg UR824.?) so that we can decode 4 channels with our desired DACS (holo or other) , and leave the DACs in the Pro device for the less important channels.
  
 Now that HOLO "DIY" DACs modules have recently been announced, it may be possible for example to build a HOLO multichannel DAC at reasonable price, and use it together with a Pro, multichannel DAC solution (e.g. Scarlett 6i6 as cheapest for 5.1) combined with an HTPC and Jriver. I think that a 4 channels HOLO (with two spdif inputs and two stereo HOLO DAC modules inside) could be used for 4 channels, fed from  the 2 spdif OUTs of a Steinberg UR824 (or similar), iththe source been HTPC/Jriver and all channel "contents" set in "Jriver DSP-room correction (not sure)" menu. A nice thing is that this solution can be (partially) escalable, if you have a Pro multich DAC with more than one digital out compatible with the Holo (e.g. spdif), then you can add more Holo Dacs (or just the DAC modules with independent Spdif in...) for additional movie channels.
 PS: as you see, there's no Receiver or separate Processor involved, with the HTPC and Jriver doing all "processing" (and the external DACs doing their thing)


----------



## Sherwood

The above would definitely work.  It would only work through JRiver, unless someone developed a Kodi plugin that lets you send sound to assignable channels with the same granularity that JRiver does, and it would require a multichannel recording DDC like the Scarletti as well as some careful configuration work.  I suggested you abandon your plan on the assumption that you weren't interested in such a detailed solution, but more power to you.
  
 You could certainly use that same setup for multichannel DSD files, as JRiver can handle .iso and .dsf files easily.  You could also add in some room response, if your PC was up to it.


----------



## leeg

But I love the XMC's decoding/decoder options/room correction with HT.  So much simpler had it had a HT bypass.  But very interesting to see how versatile JRiver can be used.


----------



## kolia

leeg said:


> But I love the XMC's decoding/decoder options/room correction with HT.  So much simpler had it had a HT bypass.  But very interesting to see how versatile JRiver can be used.



Fully agree. I use jRiver for high end 2ch audio only, and Plex + XMC for video only.


----------



## T Bone

Has anyone experienced a scenario where the Spring doesn't "shift" gears into DSD mode?  
  
 I use JRiver Media Center as my media player and have the Spring connected to my laptop via a USB cable.  The Spring is in "NOS mode".  I have tried to play three different DSD encoded tracks.  The display switches to read 176.4K, not DSD64, and the system plays static, like a really dirty vinyl LP. 
  
 I am confident my driver & DSD config is correct - I've played dozens of .DSF files before.  
 Before someone asks, yes - JRiver is configured to play DSD content using DoP mode.  
  
 Has this happened to anyone else?


----------



## T Bone

t bone said:


> I use JRiver Media Center as my media player and have the Spring connected to my laptop via a USB cable.



I figured it out - there was some Wyrd Schiit going on.  
I forgot to mention that there was a Schiit Wyrd in the signal path (I forgot I was even using it!)  I unplugged that Schiit and DSD playback worked normally.  I have no idea why the Wyrd caused the Spring to fault but it was an easy fix.
 
Can't wait for my Singxer SU-1 to arrive.


----------



## despinos

leeg said:


> I've been wondering kind of the same questions...Is there a way to use the Spring with a 2 ch preamp (which I haven't bought yet...I'm presently just using the XMC as my 2 ch pre and HT)  integrated to my HT processor/a Emotiva XMC-1.  No HT bypass on the XMC 1.
> The goal is to use my 2 ch setup/preamp, but to be able to use these two channels in my HT setup.
> 
> Here's the XMC's specs:  http://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/xmc-1


 

 hello leeg,
  
 I'm not very sure what you want to achieve. Anyway it looks like the "best of both worls" (stereo and HT) dilemma. Either use a HT Prepro for movies or a good stereo setup for music. In that situation the L and R front speakers would be used by either the home cinema or the stereo setup (with separate preamplifier).
  
 Until recently, what I did to solve that situation was use a custom fabricated (inexpensive- about 70 USD)  amplifier selector. It accepted the outputs from two different amplifiers (selectable with a switch) and has stereo outputs to  my L and R front speakers. Thus, just by toggling a switch in this simple mechanical "amplifier selector box" I could choose if either to listen to one amplifier (for music) or the other amplifier (the receiver, for movies). I don't use that solution anymore, as I found that having the Receiver "On" lowered the volume when I was listening to the other amp... also meant more (speaker) cables required, and I also forgot often that I had to use that switch when changling amps.
  
 I have browsed the XMC-1 user guide (don't have this machine) and found:
  
_1. Digital Audio Outputs
 Connect these outputs to the digital inputs of an external audio device or DAC.
 Note: The Digital Audio Outputs of the XMC-1 are subject to processing, and/or re-sampling
 or sample rate conversion in some instances. They are intended for connecting other external
 devices with their own digital inputs, but should not be considered to be bit-perfect copies of
 the digital input signal._
 -----
  
 Possibly you can use the optical out of the XMC-1 to feed the Holo (knowing that the XMC-1 may resample it as stated above). The Holo outs would feed your new Preamplifier (For front L and R channels) which would feed an amplifier. You should use the LR analogue outs of the XMC-1 to feed the same external preamplifier (which needs to accept then at least two stereo inputs, one for the Holo out and one for the XMC L and R analogue outs). *This way, you can use the Holo for stereo movies. However, I don't know if the XMC will apply its "tricks" (e.g. room correction, etc) to the digital out.* *Don't know either if the XMC will decode a dolby or DTS into PCM for its digital out, so that the Holo can recognize it. *
 So, *not sure if this (using the digital out to feed the holo) will work for movies in such compressed audio formats*, because, as mentioned, the Holo will not "understand" Dolby or DTS signals. May depend on what you feed the XMC, and if there's any internal conversion required in the XMC and if it is capable of that conversion from the input to the digital output. I wouldn't count that the XMC will have much flexibility of conversion towards its digital outs, but as I say, I don't own one, and if interested in the capabilities of its digital outs, you better search/ask in an XMC-1 forum.
  
  
 With an external preamplifier, you can select if you will listen to the Holo or to the XMC. A problem with this setup (aside from the not "bitperfect" digital out of the XMC) is that you have two daisychained preamplifiers for the LR channels (first the XMC and then the external preamplifier) when listening to multichannel. When listening to the Holo, you only have one preamplifier in the chain (the external one).
  
 Because the Holo has various inputs, you could use a separate input to feed it directly from your stereo source. What you will not be able to do with the XMC-1 is use at the same time different dacs (the XMC and and the HOLO) for multichannel analogue to digital conversion (which is what I will try to do without the HTPC&Jriver+Focusrite+Holo combo.)
  
 Probably chaining two preamps would remove most of the sonic advantages of using a separate one suposedly better than the XMC.
  
*If I had the XMC-1, I would just use it and forget about using a second preamplifier, and would just use the XMC-1 as preamplifier for the Holo (music) and for movies.*
  
*If I wanted to use&buy a separate new preamp for the Holo dac, I would probably look for a TVC passive preamplifier* (passive with Transformer Volume Control instead of resistors) and a switch for two stereo inputs (one for the XMC LR and one for the Holo LR). I have not tried TVC passive preamps myself, but they look like a very good solution under 1,000 USD. PS: Google for TVC preamplifier if interested or I can provide some links with info.
  
 Hope that helps rather than confuses.
  
 note; various edits to (hopefully) clarify


----------



## kolia

I have a high end stereo system including CD, turntable, analog tuner, analog preamp and 4K HPTC with projector system including XMC-1 and shortly the latest Oppo. Whatever the prepro is, I will not trade off the stereo preamp. In other words I much prefer the two preamps approach for movie playback because I will be sure to have the best stereo reproduction without degrading the movie sound reproduction. There is no chance, to me, that the XMC1 can compete, SQ wise, to my stereo system, so I don't want it in the path.


----------



## Bachstr

bachstr said:


> I haven't tried the XLR interconnect yet. I have already tried​ USB input and SPDIF (SU-1 --> coaxial --> Holo Spring DAC). Similar results.
> The RCA interconnect is no problem if I use built-in DAC of CXA80 amp.
> My amp have Input impedances​: balanced 50 kOhm​/unbalanced 43 kOhm, and voltage output of Holo Spring DAC: 2.5Vrms (RCA)/5Vrms (XLR), does that matter?


 
 I tried connecting with XLR interconnect. Everything is OK. My problem is that it is not appearing on the​ same components. Is someone tried with RCA interconnect?


----------



## Energy

Does any of you know of any other R2R DAC's under $2000?
  
 I found recently that Audio-GD made a single ended R2R DAC that can be had for $650 along with making their 24 bit R2R module open for purchase.
  
http://audio-gd.com/Master/Singularity19/Singularity%2019EN.htm
http://audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/DA01/DA01EN.htm


----------



## rudra

There is Mhdt labs, soekris dac and http://www.head-fi.org/t/833690/denafrips-ares-r2r-discrete-ladder-dac-close-up-view


----------



## grizzlybeast

*Metrum Pavane vs Holo Spring DAC*


----------



## lukeap69

grizzlybeast said:


> *Metrum Pavane vs Holo Spring DAC*




Very nice and detailed comparison. Thanks for doing this. Just a minor comment, you mentioned both to be amps rather than DACs in your last paragraph. Cheers.


----------



## grizzlybeast

lukeap69 said:


> grizzlybeast said:
> 
> 
> > *Metrum Pavane vs Holo Spring DAC*
> ...


 
 thanks for the correction. Ill fix it.


----------



## inthere

grizzlybeast said:


> *Metrum Pavane vs Holo Spring DAC*




How many hours were there on the Holo Audio Spring in the test?


----------



## grizzlybeast

inthere said:


> grizzlybeast said:
> 
> 
> > *Metrum Pavane vs Holo Spring DAC*
> ...




Not sure but I was the last on a second run. The first run had +/- 10 ppl. Thwre were 3 before me on the second run.


----------



## ericr

+1 for the MHDT DACs. At well under $1000 the new Canary model seems to be a great value.


----------



## jerick70

ericr said:


> +1 for the MHDT DACs. At well under $1000 the new Canary model seems to be a great value.




I really enjoy my Atlantis. Superb sound and value.


----------



## Benny-x

grizzlybeast said:


> *Metrum Pavane vs Holo Spring DAC*


 
 That is a BEAUTIFUL webpage! The graphics and design flow are really cool.
  
 I've never heard of it before, I'm about to dive in the articles on it, but how long has it been around and what's the deal?


----------



## grizzlybeast

Thanks Benny. 

It may be slow now and it its pretty new. I haven't allowed it to be visible on google yet nor have I upgraded for better speed.

Regarding MHDT, I really lijed the stolckhom v2. That has been my recommendation for a NOS DAC under 1k. It beat the pulse xfinitity. The Holo was impressive to me. While I fibd it a little colored in the upper mids I think it soubds lively and organic. I'd buy one if I didn't have other priorities.


----------



## Benny-x

grizzlybeast said:


> Thanks Benny.
> 
> It may be slow now and it its pretty new. I haven't allowed it to be visible on google yet nor have I upgraded for better speed.


 
 I went through the site, that was funny. I was thinking, wow, this is a real headphone site that actually declares winners and judges things vs. the usual "only write reviews for things I've liked" that you find everywhere else. It was refreshing, I'm a big fan of whoever's involved in that site in a lot of different aspects.
  
 And the visuals are especially one of them. If it's all yours and you've got control over the pictures, really go to town with the gear pr0n in the reviews. It's already like eye candy. Those big, screen filling images with all the right lighting and angles, it's the best. The writing content is great to and it looks like you know how to splice them together, but more of those big, high quality gear pics is something I wouldn't be angry about. They're so engaging and enveloping. 
  
 The flow is also really nice in the reviews, though some of them got a little long   Nice job, man!
  
 As for DACs, I've only tried 1 NOS DAC and it's so long ago that I wouldn't be able to say. The MHDT ones have always gotten a lot of love, though. I'd like to see how something else in the price range matched up against my Pulse X Infinity. I'm not a fanboy of it or anything, but it's bee na decent DAC since I got it and certainly showed the bass bloat and lack of details/space in the PWD MkII.


----------



## grizzlybeast

^To be fair, My 2.0 that I had was not in the new chassis. They claimed that they had all of the same components and just put them in the old chassis for me. But that was not the case. The new chassis has a better dac chip in it. 
  
 I can't comment on that one. I will say that the MHDT had more hear through factor and the tonality was a little sweeter with better clarity. The Holo is a gorgeous piece of kit and it sounds like it looks. Bold smooth, and high quality.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I've got a Schiit Freya I'll be adding to the Holo 3, Rag stack. Hopefully the tubes can add some romance into the mix.


----------



## lukeap69

I was also considering adding a Freya to my Holo Spring/Rag combo...


----------



## inthere

lukeap69 said:


> I was also considering adding a Freya to my Holo Spring/Rag combo...


 

 Did you have the Yggy before you got the Holo Spring?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

The Freya is waiting for me it seems. Can't wait to get home and give it a go.





lukeap69 said:


> I was also considering adding a Freya to my Holo Spring/Rag combo...


----------



## lukeap69

inthere said:


> Did you have the Yggy before you got the Holo Spring?




Nope. I never had or heard the Yggy unfortunately.


----------



## lukeap69

soundsgoodtome said:


> The Freya is waiting for me it seems. Can't wait to get home and give it a go.




Nice. I will be waiting for your impressions.


----------



## WNBC

Looking forward to your impressions.  I was thinking about the Freya for remote volume control and some added spunk.  I've had good experiences with preamps (Decware CSP2) and gain stage (Decware ZStage) into headphone amps in the past.
  
 Quote:


soundsgoodtome said:


> I've got a Schiit Freya I'll be adding to the Holo 3, Rag stack. Hopefully the tubes can add some romance into the mix.


----------



## gk2013

Holo Audio now available in Europe!
  
Magna Hifi  http://www.magnahifi.com/
  
 Very enthusiastic and reliable. Local servicing, very supportive!


----------



## Spamateur

grizzlybeast said:


> ^To be fair, My 2.0 that I had was not in the new chassis. They claimed that they had all of the same components and just put them in the old chassis for me. But that was not the case. The new chassis has a better dac chip in it.
> 
> I can't comment on that one. I will say that the MHDT had more hear through factor and the tonality was a little sweeter with better clarity. The Holo is a gorgeous piece of kit and it sounds like it looks. Bold smooth, and high quality.


 
  
 gbeast, can you comment on the Pavane vs the MHDT Stockholm 2? General tonality, detail, etc. I'm wondering if the Pavane could be qualified as a brighter DAC than the MHDT NOS selections or the Holo.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Quick plug in as I wait for appliance delivery. My interconnects come in today as well so I can get the Rag in the mix for headphone use but so far I like what I'm hearing through the Nakamichi PA-7 > Kef 105.2

Just a nice touch of tube sweetness that really completes the sound for me. Coming from an MHDT Pagoda it really satisfies fully whereas before i missed the tube buffer aspect. The ifi itube doesn't compare to the Freya.


----------



## grizzlybeast

spamateur said:


> grizzlybeast said:
> 
> 
> > ^To be fair, My 2.0 that I had was not in the new chassis. They claimed that they had all of the same components and just put them in the old chassis for me. But that was not the case. The new chassis has a better dac chip in it.
> ...


 
 The best person to ask is @Soundsgoodtome He has heard all of the MHDT DACs and now has a holo.  I remember the Stockholm as neutral with a little warmth down low so same ballpark.


----------



## leeg

This is very interesting, I've been wondering if adding something tubed back in my system.  So I've had my eye on the Freya.  Great to hear it works well with the Spring.  I read thru the thread here about it and tube rolling.  A little concerned about any slight noise/hum it might have.  How quiet in your setup is it?  Also, wow, the price of some of the tubes the guys have tried lol


----------



## Spamateur

grizzlybeast said:


> The best person to ask is @Soundsgoodtome He has heard all of the MHDT DACs and now has a holo.  I remember the Stockholm as neutral with a little warmth down low so same ballpark.


 
 Ah, my mistake. Appreciate the heads up. Been reading some of your impressions over at that "other" forum and think I'm going to grab the Pavane.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

You should talk to jibzilla about a Pavane. 





spamateur said:


> Ah, my mistake. Appreciate the heads up. Been reading some of your impressions over at that "other" forum and think I'm going to grab the Pavane.


----------



## Spamateur

soundsgoodtome said:


> You should talk to @jibzilla about a Pavane.


 
 I hit him up initially then saw his warnings about previous buyers having issues with Windows. I'm solely a Windows user at home, so I'm talking with an authorized Metrum vendor to make sure this won't be an issue.
  
 Thanks for the tip, though!


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Interesting, would a DDC solve this? Like a Singxer SU-1? 

Off track end. Back on track!


----------



## grizzlybeast

I use Mac so I have no issues.


----------



## Spamateur

soundsgoodtome said:


> Interesting, would a DDC solve this? Like a Singxer SU-1?
> 
> Off track end. Back on track!


 
  
 My apologies for derailing this thread so badly. Back to the hotel Holo!


----------



## leeg

leeg said:


> This is very interesting, I've been wondering if adding something tubed back in my system.  So I've had my eye on the Freya.  Great to hear it works well with the Spring.  I read thru the thread here about it and tube rolling.  A little concerned about any slight noise/hum it might have.  How quiet in your setup is it?  Also, wow, the price of some of the tubes the guys have tried lol


 
  
  


spamateur said:


> My apologies for derailing this thread so badly. Back to the hotel Holo!


 
 Well, I asked a question about the Spring as above.    ....And how much if any, noise/hiss is there with a Freya in the mix?  Maybe I should ask over on the Freya thread?  I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just being an audio geek.


----------



## T Bone

When starting/stopping DSD playback the Holo emits an audible click or pop.  I've only noticed this with DSD tracks, not PCM.
 Anyone else experience the same?   Can anyone explain WHY this happens?
  
 ** EDIT **
 This occurs in NOS mode - the only mode I use.
 Also - when I introduced a Singxer SU-1 into the chain the click/pop were significantly louder.


----------



## TimeLord

t bone said:


> When starting/stopping DSD playback the Holo emits an audible click or pop.  I've only noticed this with DSD tracks, not PCM.
> Anyone else experience the same?   Can anyone explain WHY this happens?
> 
> ** EDIT **
> ...


 
  
 What playback software are you using?
  
 I have had popping issues playing DSD too, but it's not limited to the Holo. I get the popping using foobar2000 with the DSD and SACD components.
  
 Portable playback on my iPhone using iAudioGate out to a Sony PHA-3 also has the same clicks. I think the pops are originating in the playback software. If someone has an answer, that would be great.
  
 Luckily, I have very little in DSD.


----------



## T Bone

timelord said:


> What playback software are you using?
> 
> I have had popping issues playing DSD too, but it's not limited to the Holo. I get the popping using foobar2000 with the DSD and SACD components.




Very interesting feedback. I wonder what causes this noise in playback - regardless of hardware.
I use JRiver Media Center for all my playback. 

It's kind of a pain in the rump for me because I have "non trivial amount" of SACD content.


----------



## joseph69

timelord said:


> What playback software are you using?
> 
> I have had popping issues playing DSD too,* but it's not limited to the Holo*. I get the popping using foobar2000 with the DSD and SACD components.
> 
> ...


 
 I also use Jriver MC21 and I notice this this as well.
 I'll be trying to eliminate the issue starting with adjusting the Pre-buffering settings.
  
 Strange that you find it's not limited to the Holo and are encountering the same issue with other software.
 I've been using JRiver with my PWD-ll prior to receiving my Spring and never had this issue.


----------



## lukeap69

joseph69 said:


> I also use Jriver MC21 and I notice this this as well.
> I'll be trying to eliminate the issue starting with adjusting the Pre-buffering settings.
> 
> Strange that you find it's not limited to the Holo and are encountering the same issue with other software.
> I've been using JRiver with my PWD-ll prior to receiving my Spring and never had this issue.




Some DACs have split second delay when playing DSD to eliminate the pops or clicks. If I am not mistaken, this was explained in the Mojo thread.


----------



## ppnuts

With my setup (Lumin U1 to Singxer SU-1 to Spring), I observed the following when changing tracks involving the DSD format:
  
 Programmed, clicks heard
 DSD to DSD    No
 PCM to DSD    No
 DSD to PCM    Yes
  
 Manual, clicks heard
 DSD to DSD    Yes
 PCM to DSD    No
 DSD to PCM    Yes
  
 Very odd indeed.


----------



## T Bone

ppnuts said:


> "Programmed, clicks heard"   "Manual, clicks heard"


 
 As a kid, I rode the short bus to school.  So I don't understand what you mean by programmed and manual?  Since I'm not familiar with your Lumin, maybe you could explain that a little more.


----------



## joseph69

lukeap69 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I don't own any DSD files. I should have mentioned that this is happening in NOS/PCM mode when switching to/from different sample rates either with/without using a DDC in front of the Spring with a USB/Toslink connection.
  
 I'm trying to eliminate the noise by adjusting the one or more of the options in the "Setting" menu in JRiver.


----------



## TimeLord

t bone said:


> As a kid, I rode the short bus to school.  So I don't understand what you mean by programmed and manual?  Since I'm not familiar with your Lumin, maybe you could explain that a little more.



That short bus is filling up, because here comes another passenger. lol


----------



## ppnuts

Lumin DS plays tracks via an app on iPad. By programmed, I mean pre-selecting a no. of tracks and let them play in the order selected. Manual means I jump between tracks on the selected list.


----------



## lukeap69

joseph69 said:


> I don't own any DSD files. I should have mentioned that this is happening in NOS/PCM mode when switching to/from different sample rates either with/without using a DDC in front of the Spring with a USB/Toslink connection.
> 
> I'm trying to eliminate the noise by adjusting the one or more of the options in the "Setting" menu in JRiver.


 
 Oh that's odd. I don't use Jriver so I do not know if it is in the settings of Jriver but with Foobar I don't get any pops o clicks when playing PCM in NOS mode. However, I rarely use PC/Foobar anymore, my Soundaware D100 Pro is my main transport which is superb in many ways.
  
 I hope you can troubleshoot your pop issue. Good luck.


----------



## joseph69

lukeap69 said:


> Oh that's odd. I don't use Jriver so I do not know if it is in the settings of Jriver but with Foobar I don't get any pops o clicks when playing PCM in NOS mode. However, I rarely use PC/Foobar anymore, my Soundaware D100 Pro is my main transport which is superb in many ways.
> 
> I hope you can troubleshoot your pop issue. Good luck.


 
 Thank you.
 I'm working on it.


----------



## joseph69

Adjusting the setting in JRiver has gotten me no where.
  
 So, using iTunes (Built-in Core Audio Output) I found there is no noise issues with the Spring changing between sample rates at all. But , it's also not bit perfect.
  
 Introducing Bitperfect software to iTunes using the (Spring-xCore Audio Output) I have the same exact noise issue I have using JRivers software (Spring-core audio output). 
  
This isn't the end of the world, but I would rather not have this noise between changing sample rates, and again, it's occasional and very soft. One thing I will says that my Spring DAC has well over 500hrs and just continues to sound incredible. So much so, that for me, It has changed the entire musical presentation and the way I feel about the SQ of my 009/BHSE in a way I never could have imagined it would. So I am 100% satisfied with my purchase regardless.


----------



## rafabro

ppnuts said:


> With my setup (Lumin U1 to Singxer SU-1 to Spring), I observed the following when changing tracks involving the DSD format:
> 
> Programmed, clicks heard
> DSD to DSD    No
> ...


 
 It SU-1 does. I and my friend as well, we both have Sigxer and both makes clicks.


----------



## T Bone

Since a lot of Holo Spring owners also use the Singxer SU-1, can I ask _*WHY *_the clicks/pops seem louder with SU-1 than without?


----------



## ppnuts

joseph69 said:


> Adjusting the setting in JRiver has gotten me no where.
> 
> So, using iTunes (Built-in Core Audio Output) I found there is no noise issues with the Spring changing between sample rates at all. But , it's also not bit perfect.
> 
> ...


 

 Cannot agree more with you in your last paragraph.


----------



## musickid

ive shortlisted holo audio level 1, gunj multibit and metrum musette to purchase early april. im leaning towards holo lvl 1 but im worried the 2.5v rms out from the spring dac maybe too much for my small earmaxpro tube amp. i was using a modi multibit before at 2v out. any advice here please. for eg is 2.5v too hot for my amp here or am i worrying about nothing as some cd players output 2.5v too. spec sheet for amp includes cd players as an ok source. is the spring dac overkill for tidal lossless 16//44.1 and tidal mqa up to 96khz? both pcm.


----------



## joseph69

I've been listening to sample rates ranging between 44.1 to 352.8 for the past 3hrs and not once have I heard a single pop/click while changing sample rates after going nuts yesterday trying to tweak JRiver to correct this issue to no avail.


----------



## rudra

@musickid Holo dac does not support MQA


----------



## Sherwood

rudra said:


> @musickid Holo dac does not support MQA


 
 It doesn't matter in this case, it supports MQA just as well as the Musette and the Gungnir MB.  If he's playing through Tidal, the software can unfold.
  
 As to your question, 2.5v should not be an issue, it will only affect your gain.  If you normally turn the volume up past 9 o'clock or so, you should be fine.


----------



## Sherwood

I use the Singxer SU-1 with the Holo and I have never gotten a pop or click when switching sample rates, either through Roon/HQP on Windows 10 or OS X.


----------



## T Bone

sherwood said:


> I use the Singxer SU-1 with the Holo and I have never gotten a pop or click when switching sample rates


 
 In my experience it has been a problem exclusive to DSD content.
 For example, if I hit the stop button in JRiver so nothing is going to the the DAC and then play a DSD track, I will get a click/pop at start.
 This happens with EVERY DSD track not just some.
  
 This does not occur when playing PCM content; just DSD.  
 I know this isn't a huge problem for many Spring owners who have little or no DSD content.  It is a concern for me because I have quite a bit of DSD content in my library.


----------



## joseph69

sherwood said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I use a MBP running JRiver-MC21 and occasionally iTunes w/Bitperfect and was having soft popping/clicking issues with PCM in NOS mode (until last night) and when I had the SU1 in the chain they were much more emphasized than without it. As I mentioned in a previous post, I didn't have this issue using iTunes *without *Bitperfect, so the issue was in both the JRiver/Bitperfect software. I'll see what happens with iTunes w/BitPerfect some time today.


----------



## rudra

sherwood said:


> It doesn't matter in this case, it supports MQA just as well as the Musette and the Gungnir MB.  If he's playing through Tidal, the software can unfold.




Does software decoding get full resolution. I have read somewhere on Headfi that with software decoded output is limited to 24/48.


----------



## Sherwood

rudra said:


> Does software decoding get full resolution. I have read somewhere on Headfi that with software decoded output is limited to 24/48.


 
  
 As I understand from the CA article, software decoding caps out at 24/96.  I would still rather have 24/96 through the Holo than full MQA through the Brooklyn, for instance.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Question on connecting transports to the holo. 

The i2s cable from the su1 to the holo is just a standard hdmi cable correct?


----------



## Energy

soundsgoodtome said:


> Question on connecting transports to the holo.
> 
> The i2s cable from the su1 to the holo is just a standard hdmi cable correct?


 
  
 Any i2S cable will do. Configuration of PS Audio.
  
 But if you really want to go big on cables, you can buy a quality one from WireWorld like the Chroma, Ultraviolet, or Starlight 7.
  
 Personally I use a Silverback S6 from Sewell Direct that works fine. It's not expensive, well shielded, good gauge, and comes in multiple sizes.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Ordered a couple of cables from Sewell, thank you. So it looks to be the same cable you'd use to plug a bluray player to a tv. 





energy said:


> Any i2S cable will do. Configuration of PS Audio.
> 
> But if you really want to go big on cables, you can buy a quality one from WireWorld like the Chroma, Ultraviolet, or Starlight 7.
> 
> Personally I use a Silverback S6 from Sewell Direct that works fine. It's not expensive, well shielded, good gauge, and comes in multiple sizes.


----------



## Benny-x

joseph69 said:


> I've been listening to sample rates ranging between 44.1 to 352.8 for the past 3hrs and not once have I heard a single pop/click while changing sample rates after going nuts yesterday trying to tweak JRiver to correct this issue to no avail. :blink:




I love when stuff like that happens. But does that mean you're in the clear now??


----------



## joseph69

soundsgoodtome said:


> Question on connecting transports to the holo.
> 
> The i2s cable from the su1 to the holo is just a standard hdmi cable correct?


 
 Yes, it's an HDMI cable.
  


benny-x said:


> I love when stuff like that happens. But does that mean you're in the clear now??


 
 I'm not sure because I didn't do any listening tonight. I doubt it, though.


----------



## Energy

soundsgoodtome said:


> Ordered a couple of cables from Sewell, thank you. So it looks to be the same cable you'd use to plug a bluray player to a tv.


 

 Same as any HDMI cable, they just take different pin configuration when you use a DDC (digital to digital converter), then you must change it yourself depending on the DAC.
  
 ---

 I've been oversampling my Holo Audio Spring from 16 bit/44.1kHz to 192kHz on HQPlayer and everything sounds more smooth, less emphasized, but has a slight digital glare. Anyone else oversample? I'm more leaning on NOS with no oversampling at this point.


----------



## T Bone

soundsgoodtome said:


> The i2s cable from the su1 to the holo is just a standard hdmi cable correct?


 
 Yes - It is a standard HDMI cable.  If connecting to a Singxer SU-1 please keep in mind that, per Time @ Kitsune,  the cable shouldn't be longer than .5M.  Keep it short.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I'll have to make another order, bought a 3ft one as the shortest.





t bone said:


> Yes - It is a standard HDMI cable.  If connecting to a Singxer SU-1 please keep in mind that, per Time @ Kitsune,  the cable shouldn't be longer than .5M.  Keep it short.


----------



## Energy

I2S wasn't made for long runs. It was more for a PCB to PCB connection. The longer it is, the more the signal integrity becomes influenced by additional jitter.
 Don't forget this i2S signal is being fed directly to the DAC chip, FPGA, or R2R Ladder.
  
 My Singxer SU-1 sits on top my Holo Audio Spring in a weird position because I use a *0.5FT* cable. Super Super Short. S/PDIF cables should be short too so that there are fewer reflections influencing the signal. AES/EBU is made to used in longer runs.


----------



## despinos

A petition for a firmware upgrade:
  
  
 Add an option to modify the information shown on the display, so that the Source been used is displayed, which I find much more useful than seeing just  the resolution.
  
 Better : show both the Source and Resolution. Eg: "CO1-DS64" (means coaxial input 1 and DSD 64).
  
 Even Better: give also the option to modify the input name (from a selectable list), so that it is, for example "DVD, PC, TV; AUX...". So that the display shows for example "DVD 44.1". Maybe it is possible to mod the firmware to include an input "name change" feature by pressing two buttons at same time (source + dim?) and then select the alternative tag/name for each input. Similar feature as seen on many Receivers. This can be most useful with three or more inputs populated.
  
 Please, pass this petition to the HOLO design guy/s!!!


----------



## T Bone

despinos said:


> A petition for a firmware upgrade:
> 
> Add an option to modify the information shown on the display, so that the Source been used is displayed, which I find much more useful than seeing just  the resolution.


 
 I can see where that would make a lot of sense if you're using the Spring in a quasi-pre-amp role.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I would vote for a simple indicator of what OS Mode is active.  If you want to confirm which OS Mode is active at any moment, you have to press the OS mode button 4x times to cycle through.  I just want to "look at it" and know that I'm NOS mode.


----------



## TimeLord

t bone said:


> I can see where that would make a lot of sense if you're using the Spring in a quasi-pre-amp role.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The display unit on it is rather simple, so it won't be able to do any complex displays. That said, if Holo can think of some way of indicating PCM or DSD with bitrate, source, and oversampling mode to be displayed, that would be fantastic.


----------



## mordicai

You mean like the Gustard 20X ?


----------



## TimeLord

mordicai said:


> You mean like the Gustard 20X ?




I have no experience with that system, so I don't know...

I assume you mean the Gustard *X20*? I just saw pics of that and that display has more capabilities than the one in the Spring. The Spring's display is closer to an LED 7-segment display but with very large dots making up the display components instead of 7 segments.


----------



## bimmer100

timelord said:


> The display unit on it is rather simple, so it won't be able to do any complex displays. That said, if Holo can think of some way of indicating PCM or DSD with bitrate, source, and oversampling mode to be displayed, that would be fantastic.


 
  
  
 The next dac, May will have indicator LED's for sampling rate etc.
  
  
 but the Spring Display has had some complaining about the dimming function to not work for the firs 5-6 clicks... here's the kicker. It's working in fact, but our eyes are unable to see the brightness levels of the first 5-6 values... We are fixing this with a new firmware update and all new spring dacs will ship with this update. So the first click will start to dim the diplay where the human eye can detect this level.  
  
 Anyhow, the display will get no other updates, or will never have support for input labeling. there simply isn't enough characters to do anything like this. So would be pointless. Yet we have future products coming I can't discuss on headfi, but will elsewhere. but the near future will be so very exciting!


----------



## bimmer100

t bone said:


> I can see where that would make a lot of sense if you're using the Spring in a quasi-pre-amp role.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Terry,
  
 Set it to NOS and forget it 
  
 it has memory and stays in the last mode used.  Oddly i've maybe pressed the front panel buttons 6-7 times. and most of those times was to set the dimmer 
  
 otherwise, i'm on i2s and NOS.  DONE, 
  
 our next dac will have a few more options, but really...the display isn't even needed on the spring. It's more elegant than anything. The saying "less is more" as the dac's whole design is really clean and simple in this regard. I'm sorry to say for some, they may find it too simple. But it's interface is functionable. We will take note for future designs. We already have a lot of the specs for the May dac.We are always open to hearing from our customers on what they want out of our next products.  We are listening to our customers!


----------



## TimeLord

bimmer100
Thanks for the input Tim. MAY the audio gods be with you.


----------



## despinos

bimmer100 said:


> The next dac, May will have indicator LED's for sampling rate etc.
> 
> 
> but the Spring Display has had some complaining about the dimming function to not work for the firs 5-6 clicks... here's the kicker. It's working in fact, but our eyes are unable to see the brightness levels of the first 5-6 values... We are fixing this with a new firmware update and all new spring dacs will ship with this update. So the first click will start to dim the diplay where the human eye can detect this level.
> ...


 
 (image missing)
  
 OK, possibly no room for more characters. HOWEVER, it is possible to change the label codes to provide more information, as long as we don't exceed the maximum number of characters available in the display (six?):
  
 For example; instead of "DSD256", it could be shown "COA256".
 "64", "128", "256" and "512" can ONLY mean in this context DSD, so it's not necessary to show "DSD" characters as they are implicit (although many users .may like seeing "DSD" displayed)
  
 Similar can be done for non-dsd formats. For example "192K" can be replaced with "COA192" (no need to show that "K" either), and "44.1K"  with "CO44.1". So the simpler solution is use less characters to display resolution info and use the extra available characters to put info about the source.
  
 A simpler mod: change how one of the buttons operate, so that user can select whether to watch the Resolution of the sSource. For example, pressing "Display " and "Source" at same time will toggle between displaying the resolution and the source.
  
 An even simpler (and less useful if used without the above mod): pressing "source" just once will cycle through all sources, BUT beginning with the same source already selected, so that if we press "source" just once, we can see what source is active at the moment without changing it. With current firmware, if we want to know what source is active, we have to cycle through all available sources.
  
 For me not been able to easily know what source I'm using is a BIG usability design mistake/omission in a device with so few options. If that's not corrected in a  firmware upgrade... well that will tell me a lot about the brand. 
  
 One question: where can I contact "Holo Audio" customer service directly? Is that even possible or do I have to post on forums for that?
  
 I'm insisting on the "source info" issue now because I have a feeling that not many firmware updates will come out for the HOLO dac ("time will tell", as another brand says) so it's probably "now or never" for these (small) changes to happen.


----------



## musickid

how does level 1 compare to gunjnir multibit or metrum musette? also is usb connection on holo really very uninspiring as reported earlier. lvl 1 would be my budget maxed out so it would have to be imac to usb cable to holo? i have to decide by monday advice is valuable. cheers mk


----------



## T Bone

musickid said:


> how does level 1 compare to gunjnir multibit or metrum musette?


 
 Send me a Gunjnir/Musette to evaluate and I'll let you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote:


musickid said:


> also is usb connection on holo really very uninspiring as reported earlier. lvl 1


 
 "uninspiring" would be an inaccurate characterization.  If you have a decent USB output you'll be ok.  Can you improve the performance with an AES or I[size=10.8333px]2[/size]S connection provided by a Singxer SU-1, in my experience - yes.  
  
 Considering that the Level 1 spring has the same R2R "bones" as the level 2 and 3 you're getting "most" of the performance with approximately a $900 savings.  
 If your only connection option (at this point in time) is a USB cable, the minute differences that the upgraded capacitors and power supply in the level 2/3 may be lost on you.
  
 From personal experience, I can recommend the Level 1 Holo Spring.  It's a very good DAC.


----------



## joseph69

musickid said:


> how does level 1 compare to gunjnir multibit or metrum musette? also is usb connection on holo really very uninspiring as reported earlier. lvl 1 would be my budget maxed out so it would have to be imac to usb cable to holo? i have to decide by monday advice is valuable. cheers mk


 
 "Very uninspiring"?
 Using my MBP w/JRiver I hear no SQ difference between i2s (w/SU-1) Toslink/USB (w/o SU1) input. Also, I hear no noise floor issues with USB and I'm not using anything in front of the Spring. I would put my entire rig on the line any day if you/anyone could tell me which input was feeding the Spring in a blind listening test. Using the SU1 (i2s) I do hear a _slight _difference in the musical presentation due to the SU1, though.


----------



## Energy

Then I guess you can save yourself some money.

I for one can hear a difference from each individual input. I2S being the best followed by AES/EBU, S/PDIF, and USB. However with a super short cable (im talking under 1-2ft) , AES/EBU vs S/PDIF is incredibly hard to spot a difference. Only when playing certain songs do I hear a slight tone difference or clarity edge improvement. Slightly as in barely. AES/EBU/SPDIF vs USB/ToSlink was easy to hear improvements though. It was like a veil was lifted. Vocals and instruments are imaged better. Sound stage isn't as fuzzy. Separation is clear between all sounds. There is a decent increase in depth, but maybe only because the stage is now less fuzzy by digital glare. Things begin to sound more life like. To me its the same improvements as I would get if I were switching from OS to NOS. 

I've had level 1 & 2 and I could not tell for the life of me the improvements of the Jensen caps. Level 3 only brought out a bit more resolution but ever so slightly. I'm talking 2-3%. More percentages can be easily be had by using a DDC like the Singxer SU-1 (via I2S) and NOS. again, if you don't hear much of a difference, save yourself some money. Trust your ears. Even if all of my friends could hear a difference and pass blind test in flying colors, if I cannot hear a difference I have no need to keep it in my system. Use what have uses for you. Simple.


----------



## joseph69

energy said:


> Then I guess you can save yourself some money.
> 
> I for one can hear a difference from each individual input. I2S being the best followed by AES/EBU, S/PDIF, and USB. However with a super short cable (im talking under 1-2ft) , AES/EBU vs S/PDIF is incredibly hard to spot a difference. Only when playing certain songs do I hear a slight tone difference or clarity edge improvement. Slightly as in barely. AES/EBU/SPDIF vs USB/ToSlink was easy to hear improvements though. It was like a veil was lifted. Vocals and instruments are imaged better. Sound stage isn't as fuzzy. Separation is clear between all sounds. There is a decent increase in depth, but maybe only because the stage is now less fuzzy by digital glare. Things begin to sound more life like. To me its the same improvements as I would get if I were switching from OS to NOS.
> 
> I've had level 1 & 2 and I could not tell for the life of me the improvements of the Jensen caps. Level 3 only brought out a bit more resolution but ever so slightly. I'm talking 2-3%. More percentages can be easily be had by using a DDC like the Singxer SU-1 (via I2S) and NOS. again, if you don't hear much of a difference, save yourself some money. Trust your ears. Even if all of my friends could hear a difference and pass blind test in flying colors, if I cannot hear a difference I have no need to keep it in my system. Use what have uses for you. Simple.


 
 I actually hear exactly all of the positives you've mentioned above when using USB directly to the Spring.


----------



## rudra

@Energy you replaced your Holo Spring with a Metrum Pavane. Can you please post your feedback.


----------



## Tboooe

Got my Level 3 this morning!  I will be setting it up in a few hours and will post my initial thoughts.


----------



## Tboooe

Got everything wired up and burning in for the past 7 hours.  I will sit down and give it a listen after dinner.
  
 One observation....I was surprised to feel that the top of the Spring gets a little warm, particularly on the right side (facing the unit).  Every DAC/CDP I have ever owned never felt even remotely warm to the touch.  I know this isnt a defect.  I was just merely surprised especially since I plan to put my SU-1 on top of the Spring.  To play it safe, I put the SU-1 off to the left side of the Spring where it is cool to the touch.
  
 I am more curious why the Spring produces so much heat, esp compared to other units I have owned.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

tboooe said:


> Got everything wired up and burning in for the past 7 hours.  I will sit down and give it a listen after dinner.
> 
> One observation....I was surprised to feel that the top of the Spring gets a little warm, particularly on the right side (facing the unit).  Every DAC/CDP I have ever owned never felt even remotely warm to the touch.  I know this isnt a defect.  I was just merely surprised especially since I plan to put my SU-1 on top of the Spring.  To play it safe, I put the SU-1 off to the left side of the Spring where it is cool to the touch.
> 
> I am more curious why the Spring produces so much heat, esp compared to other units I have owned.


 

 You should try Cayin's TOTL DAC... talk about warm, more like hot like a heatsink.


----------



## bimmer100

tboooe said:


> Got everything wired up and burning in for the past 7 hours.  I will sit down and give it a listen after dinner.
> 
> One observation....I was surprised to feel that the top of the Spring gets a little warm, particularly on the right side (facing the unit).  Every DAC/CDP I have ever owned never felt even remotely warm to the touch.  I know this isnt a defect.  I was just merely surprised especially since I plan to put my SU-1 on top of the Spring.  To play it safe, I put the SU-1 off to the left side of the Spring where it is cool to the touch.
> 
> I am more curious why the Spring produces so much heat, esp compared to other units I have owned.


 
 The spring is a class A dac and has some components that get warm. thats totally OK, and the SU1 is OK on either side. After 24hours of full warmup it will get "warmer" 
 so don't worry. It's completely normal and actually a good thing once it gets up to temp. the whole chassis acts as an excellent heat sink.


----------



## inthere

soundsgoodtome said:


> You should try Cayin's TOTL DAC... talk about warm, more like hot like a heatsink.




If you're talking about the iDAC 6 I totally agree-I have one and you can fry an egg on top of that thing.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

inthere said:


> If you're talking about the iDAC 6 I totally agree-I have one and you can fry an egg on top of that thing.


 
 I used these industrial rubber pads/stands/vibration control footings on them. Left them on playing when I left for work to get them nice and toasty before listening in and came home to a house that smelled like burnt rubber. Absolutely had a panic moment looking for failing electronic/appliance in the house or worse, only to find the DAC cooking the rubber footings - which were fresh made as well so it already emitted a smell at room temp.


----------



## rudra

I use a laptop cooler underneath my Class A tube headphone amp. YMMV


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

A company would never sell a piece of electronic that required supplemental/external fans. You can elevate it with a grill or mesh style stand so there's an air path but cooling fans are totally unnecessary unless something has failed.



rudra said:


> I use a laptop cooler underneath my Class A tube headphone amp. YMMV


----------



## rudra

The amp used to come with a 100 mm cooling fan. Too noisy . So i got rid of them and used the laptop cooler.


----------



## mscott58

soundsgoodtome said:


> A company would never sell a piece of electronic that required supplemental/external fans. You can elevate it with a grill or mesh style stand so there's an air path but cooling fans are totally unnecessary unless something has failed.


 
  
 Unless you put your amp in an enclosed space without the suggested clearance. For instance my desktop stack is on top of a part of my desk (duh!) which has a back, so it doesn't get any natural airflow from behind. To help make up for this I have two external fans that are very quiet, and I run them at lower-speed so they are even quieter. Do I definitely need the fans? Probably not, but it doesn't hurt and it makes me feel better at least. Cheers


----------



## hifi25nl

An information. How XMOS USB interface is powered? Internal or from cable?


----------



## Tboooe

I've been letting the Spring play PCM non stop in NOS mode via SPDIF from my SU-1 over the last 48 hours.  I did this so I could do an exact comparison against my current DAC, the Luxman D-06.  My initial feeling is that the Spring is definitely more detailed than my Luxman.  I am hearing more and more detail in the music that I did not notice before.  The music is also more defined.  Its tough to explain but its like drawing with a sharp pencil versus a dull one.  Everything is sharper and more precise.  Its like the notes are not as blurred.  Whats interesting is that even though the Spring is clearly more detailed than my Luxman, it isnt fatiguing or bright sounding.  It actually quite relaxing sounding which i know sounds like a contradiction.  
  
 Next I am going to try the I2S input as well as burn in the DSD R2R ladder.
  
 More to come.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

What is the power consumption difference between on and standby? Also what other benefits are there besides power saving by going on standby?

Interesting observance. Didn't hear much of an upgrade from my Breeze U8 with crystek upgraded clocks utilizing aes connection to the Spring lvl3 and then upgrading to the Singxer SU1 via i2s hdmi. Sold the SU1 and keeping the U8 until something along a compact aoip comes along with i2s out in a small footprint.


----------



## Tboooe

soundsgoodtome said:


> What is the power consumption difference between on and standby? Also what other benefits are there besides power saving by going on standby?
> 
> Interesting observance. Didn't hear much of an upgrade from my Breeze U8 with crystek upgraded clocks utilizing aes connection to the Spring lvl3 and then upgrading to the Singxer SU1 via i2s hdmi. Sold the SU1 and keeping the U8 until something along a compact aoip comes along with i2s out in a small footprint.


 
 Going from full power to standby reduced power consumption by 1-2W in my system.  That doesnt seem right....
  
 As for the SU-1, I need to have something like that in my system because I normally convert everything to DSD256.  I also do not want to use the USB input of the Spring, though I should probably compare it to the SU-1.
  
 BTW, I agree with you...it would be great to have a aoip device with various outputs like AES, SPDIF, I2S.


----------



## Energy

That's the thing about oversampling and delta-sigma switch DAC's. When you make the leap over to R2R Ladder you gain detail, clarity, sound stage, pronounced bass, realistic transients, instrument timbre, and decay. However that white noise that was once equipped to every aspect of sound is no longer there once you NOS it. There's no guessing, filters, switch noise, etc. What you end up with is something incredibly analog and reminds you of vinyl. Being able to go sharp but without fatigue. That's why NOS/R2R is so great. It's not just treble that can fatigue a person. When you switch over to the Spring you realize it's every sonic detail yet now it no longer feels force. It's so natural to the ears. It only gets better. I switched from the Spring to Pavane and gained a little more sweetness. 
  
 Do give I2S a try. You'll bypass the receiver thus improving jitter and digital noise further.


----------



## joseph69

tboooe said:


> I also do not want to use the USB input of the Spring, though I should probably compare it to the SU-1.
> 
> BTW, I agree with you...it would be great to have a aoip device with various outputs like AES, SPDIF, I2S.


 
 I would like to hear your impressions between i2s (Singxer) and direct USB to the Spring.
  
 I'm highly considering purchasing the Sonore microRendu/Uptone LPS-1 and going AoIP with JRiver because of course after I posted I had no noise issues with the USB connection, I started getting drop outs from time to time. I'm also going to revisit the SU1 as I feel I should have spent more time with it.
  
 Does anyone here use JRiver>microRendu>SU1>Spring in their chain?


----------



## Tboooe

energy said:


> That's the thing about oversampling and delta-sigma switch DAC's. When you make the leap over to R2R Ladder you gain detail, clarity, sound stage, pronounced bass, realistic transients, instrument timbre, and decay. However that white noise that was once equipped to every aspect of sound is no longer there once you NOS it. There's no guessing, filters, switch noise, etc. What you end up with is something incredibly analog and reminds you of vinyl. Being able to go sharp but without fatigue. That's why NOS/R2R is so great. It's not just treble that can fatigue a person. When you switch over to the Spring you realize it's every sonic detail yet now it no longer feels force. It's so natural to the ears. It only gets better. I switched from the Spring to Pavane and gained a little more sweetness.
> 
> Do give I2S a try. You'll bypass the receiver thus improving jitter and digital noise further.


 
 Thank you for the reply. I am beginning to understand now what all the hype over R2R is all about.  I am exciting to try I2S and DSD.
  


joseph69 said:


> I would like to hear your impressions between i2s (Singxer) and direct USB to the Spring.
> 
> I'm highly considering purchasing the Sonore microRendu/Uptone LPS-1 and going AoIP with JRiver because of course after I posted I had no noise issues with the USB connection, I started getting drop outs from time to time. I'm also going to revisit the SU1 as I feel I should have spent more time with it.
> 
> Does anyone here use JRiver>microRendu>SU1>Spring in their chain?


 
 I dont have the exact configuration you are asking for but I did have an extended demo of the microrendu in my system:
  
 Roon >HQP>microrendu (with LPS-1 power supply)>SU-1>DAC (Luxman)
  
 The microrendu + LPS-1 was an immediate improvement over my low powered i3 powered pc acting as NAA for HQP.  I am not one for hyperbole when it comes to audio but the microrendu + LPS1 made the music sound so much more organic and involving.  I am sure the big improvement the microrendu gave had a lot to do with its better usb implementation than my el cheapo pc.


----------



## Energy

joseph69 said:


> I would like to hear your impressions between i2s (Singxer) and direct USB to the Spring.
> 
> I'm highly considering purchasing the Sonore microRendu/Uptone LPS-1 and going AoIP with JRiver because of course after I posted I had no noise issues with the USB connection, I started getting drop outs from time to time. I'm also going to revisit the SU1 as I feel I should have spent more time with it.
> 
> Does anyone here use JRiver>microRendu>SU1>Spring in their chain?


 
  
 I would totally use the microRendu if I knew how. I'm not knowledgeable on operating systems or apps on a SD. I'm guessing the point of it is low noise and simplicity compared to traditional computers however with a SU-1 the noise is already incredibly low. I'm sure there won't be too much of a difference if adding in a Sonore in between.


----------



## joseph69

energy said:


> I would totally use the microRendu if I knew how. I'm not knowledgeable on operating systems or apps on a SD. I'm guessing the point of it is low noise and simplicity compared to traditional computers however with a SU-1 the noise is already incredibly low. I'm sure there won't be too much of a difference if adding in a Sonore in between.


 
 I don't have any noise issues…I'm actually having 1 second drop outs at least 1 time every listening session over about 3hrs. When I used AoIP with my Perfectwave-ll I never had a drop outs, which is why I was considering going back to AoIP with the mR.
  
 Also, as you mentioned, I was thinking using both the mR/SU1 would just make no sense?
 The problem is, I can't remember if I had the drop out using the SU1 when I had it, but I probably didn't because I'm sure I would have mentioned it in a prior post.
  
  


tboooe said:


> I dont have the exact configuration you are asking for but I did have an extended demo of the microrendu in my system:
> 
> Roon >HQP>microrendu (with LPS-1 power supply)>SU-1-DAC (Luxman)
> 
> The microrendu + LPS-1 was an immediate improvement over my low powered i3 powered pc acting as NAA for HQP.  I am not one for hyperbole when it comes to audio but the microrendu + LPS1 made the music sound so much more organic and involving.  I am sure the big improvement the microrendu gave had a lot to do with its better usb implementation than my el cheapo pc.


 
 Have you ever taken the mR out of the chain and just used the SU1?
 If so, was there a noticeable SQ difference without the mR?
 Also, is there a company that loans the mR for in home demos I can contact?


----------



## Tboooe

energy said:


> I would totally use the microRendu if I knew how. I'm not knowledgeable on operating systems or apps on a SD. I'm guessing the point of it is low noise and simplicity compared to traditional computers however with a SU-1 the noise is already incredibly low. I'm sure there won't be too much of a difference if adding in a Sonore in between.


 
 Its pretty painless.  Connect the microrendu to your network, select which network player mode you want to use, make sure your software player sees the microrendu, press play!!


----------



## Energy

The mR should still have benefits by using the SU-1. It's the galvanic isolation + clock that helps. Improved low noise for both units as compared to the more noisy computer + SU-1.
  
 I use a gaming computer with 9 speed fans + SU-1 and compare it to a macbook pro + SU-1 and really can't tell the difference.
  
 So the SD card holds the OS or the songs? The Ethernet cable plugs into the computers ethernet port for streaming?


----------



## Tboooe

joseph69 said:


> I don't have any noise issues…I'm actually having 1 second drop outs at least 1 time every listening session over about 3hrs. When I used AoIP with my Perfectwave-ll I never had a drop outs, which is why I was considering going back to AoIP with the mR.
> 
> Also, as you mentioned, I was thinking using both the mR/SU1 would just make no sense?
> The problem is, I can't remember if I had the drop out using the SU1 when I had it, but I probably didn't because I'm sure I would have mentioned it in a prior post.
> ...


 
 The improvements I described in my previous post was using the microrendu before the SU-1.  There was a huge improvement over using my i3 PC into the SU-1.
  
 There is no one I know that will loan out the microrendu.  I borrowed one from a friend.


----------



## oneguy

energy said:


> The mR should still have benefits by using the SU-1. It's the galvanic isolation + clock that helps. Improved low noise for both units as compared to the more noisy computer + SU-1.
> 
> I use a gaming computer with 9 speed fans + SU-1 and compare it to a macbook pro + SU-1 and really can't tell the difference.
> 
> So the SD card holds the OS or the songs? The Ethernet cable plugs into the computers ethernet port for streaming?


 

 The ethernet cable plugs into your router.
  
 EDITED


----------



## Tboooe

energy said:


> The mR should still have benefits by using the SU-1. It's the galvanic isolation + clock that helps. Improved low noise for both units as compared to the more noisy computer + SU-1.
> 
> I use a gaming computer with 9 speed fans + SU-1 and compare it to a macbook pro + SU-1 and really can't tell the difference.
> 
> So the SD card holds the OS or the songs? The Ethernet cable plugs into the computers ethernet port for streaming?


 
 The microrendu already has an OS on it.  You dont need to use the SD card for anything other than music.
  
 The ethernet port of the microrendu would connect to your network (router/switch).  You can plug it directly in the pc that has the playback software but that will require networking skill and tweaking though it is doable.  There is a huge thread on CA talking about this direct connection.  I did it but its not for the faint of heart.


----------



## joseph69

energy said:


> The mR should still have benefits by using the SU-1. It's the galvanic isolation + clock that helps. Improved low noise for both units as compared to the more noisy computer + SU-1.
> 
> I use a gaming computer with 9 speed fans + SU-1 and compare it to a macbook pro + SU-1 and really can't tell the difference.
> 
> So the SD card holds the OS or the songs? The Ethernet cable plugs into the computers ethernet port for streaming?


 
 The SD card is formatted for 5 different configurations.
 In my case using JRiver I would choose #3 (DLNA) then connect an Ethernet cable from my router to the mR, then connect either another Ethernet cable from my router to my MBP or use Wi-Fi from my MBP.
  

   
 Quote:


tboooe said:


> The improvements I described in my previous post was using the microrendu before the SU-1.  There was a huge improvement over using my i3 PC into the SU-1.
> 
> There is no one I know that will loan out the microrendu.  I borrowed one from a friend.


 
 Thank you very much for you clarification and impressions.


----------



## MacedonianHero

I've got a Level 3 Spring DAC incoming now for review (and Singxer a week or so later). Really curious to hear the R2R DAC...must say that Tim has been excellent to deal with and this DAC looks very promising!


----------



## joseph69

macedonianhero said:


> I've got a Level 3 Spring DAC incoming now for review (and Singxer a week or so later). Really curious to hear the R2R DAC...must say that Tim has been excellent to deal with and this DAC looks very promising!


 

 Looking forward to reading your reviews!


----------



## HoloSpice

How does the Holo spring dac compared to the Gustard x20u/pro?


----------



## T Bone

atomicpunch said:


> How does the Holo spring dac compared to the Gustard x20u/pro?


 
 I haven't heard of anyone selling their Spring for a Gustard.
  
 They are completely different types of DACS.  The Gustard is an oversampling delta/sigma DAc based on the Sabre 9028 chip.  
 The Spring is "famous" for its NON-oversampling mode and uses an R2R architecture.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

t bone said:


> I haven't heard of anyone selling their Spring for a Gustard.
> 
> They are completely different types of DACS.  The Gustard is an oversampling delta/sigma DAc based on the Sabre 9028 chip.
> The Spring is "famous" for its NON-oversampling mode and uses an R2R architecture.


 

 The main reason for me keeping the Holo Spring 3 over buying a Schiit Yggy is the NOS feature. Listening in NOS vs OS (even Schiit's perfect upsample), there's a character in the attack/decay that get's lost. The Holo 3 is a keeper -- even better if the imaging/spacing can increase as well as tone down the mids a hair. I would think the two are related..


----------



## Energy

atomicpunch said:


> How does the Holo spring dac compared to the Gustard x20u/pro?




The Spring makes the Gustard X-20 sound like a childrens toy. It will make it sound bright, unatural, bleached out, muddy, thin,and low on details. You'll actually hear a sound stage that's wide and have depth on the Spring. Imaging comes from the right spot and intrument timbre, decay, and separation sound true and organic. Vocals and high frequency sounds like cymbals no longer has this ring or grain to it that makes it sound as though it was recorded with a low level microphone. You'll begin to be able to differentiate center sounds seperating vocals from instruments that come in front, back, side, or corners of the singer. 

It's a night and day difference. No contest. There's so much sound quality improvements when you switch over to a R2R ladder DAC and more so when it runs in NOS and rids itself of pesty oversample filters and FIR's. Doing so brings a vinyl like sound to it. I believe people get the wrong idea "vinyl". Saying something sounds vinyl simply means it sounds realistic.

I know you're contemplating but when you get it the first thing we'll see is your Gustard X-20 being listed for sale. I've had one before during the same period as my X-Sabre.

I hope to see the rise of more R2R Ladder/NOS DAC's. I loved the Spring a ton but moreso the Metrum Pavane now after recieving mine from a fellow Head-Fier. The Pavane goes further by improving its SNR (145dB vs 126dB of Spring). It's superior FPGA > R2R Ladder implementation generates better resolution and sense of space. I wouldn't recommend it for low budget as it's $5000 (Pavane) vs $1500 (Spring) for a meer 8-10% improvement. The Holo Audio Spring is without a doubt the best bang for the buck R2R LADDER/NOS on the market right now. Another brand rising up would be DENAFRIPS. Their SNR isn't as good and there aren't enough reviews to know how they dealt with the linearity problems. Trying to find documents on such has lead me to no success.

The Holo Audio Spring is my most recommended DAC of 2016 and 2017.


----------



## T Bone

soundsgoodtome said:


> The main reason for me keeping the Holo Spring 3 over buying a Schiit Yggy is the NOS feature.


 
 I have quite a bit of DSD content in my library.  Although I have had very good experiences with other Schiit products, the Yggdrasil's lack of DSD support was a deal breaker for me.  (_before someone suggests it, I am very familiar with converting DSD to PCM_)  
 I was particularly intrigued with the Holo's _*NATIVE*_ support for DSD.  It's nice to not have the overhead of DSD-over-PCM (DoP).  
 Having an entirely separate R2R network just for DSD was a real bonus.  I like the fact that the Spring does not convert DSD to PCM like most DACs.  

 I didn't have any preconceived notions about non-oversampling performance.  I hadn't any prior experience with an NOS DAC.  I familiarized myself with the approach and then whipped out my credit card.


----------



## Tboooe

@T Bone are you still have issues with clicks between DSD tracks?  I dont have this problem using HQP and Roon.


----------



## oneguy

I have the same click issue using a MacBook Air and Audirvana. I'll have to see if BitPerfect does the same thing.


----------



## T Bone

tboooe said:


> @T Bone are you still have issues with clicks between DSD tracks?


 
 Yes, the click between tracks has never gone away. 
 I haven't tried HQPlayer (I use JRiver)     I wish I understood WHY it clicks like that and how the playback software and device firmware work together (or conflict) to cause the noise.


----------



## joseph69

Using BitPerfect in NOS-PCM my MBP does the same thing (sometimes) as well as JRiver but only when switching sample rates, not between tracks. iTunes by itself doesn't have any pops/clicks, though.


----------



## Robert McAdam

I've always found clicks/pops are computer audio software related(also its interaction with PC hardware) and nothing to do with DAC's. 
  
 I have had minor issues with mine(XXhighend earlier versions using PCM files) but all solved either by me or others contributing(software developer mainly).


----------



## Robert McAdam

To get the best out of NOS Dac's one needs to run in NOS and oversample from the software. In fact Miska, HQplayer designer has recently shown a graph in CA from the Musette which he owns, that it only works accurately in this mode. 
  


> For example I have Metrum Musette which is NOS PCM ladder DAC. It certainly needs software upsampling to 352.8/384k input rates in order to have decent output quality. Otherwise it's performance is extremely poor.
> 
> Metrum Musette, 19k sine wave at 44.1k sampling rate:
> 
> ...





  
 The consenus is if you buy a NOS Dac you run it in NOS. 
  
 Another NOS dac from Holland, the Phasure NOSa is designed to run with oversampling software XXhighend (PCM only) and upsamples to 768. All music is upsampled to 768 and run at this. It can, not upsample if desired.
  
 Would be interesting if this is also the case for the Spring and to subject the Holo spring to the same test above as performed by Miska.


----------



## Superdad

robert mcadam said:


> Would be interesting if this is the case with the Holo Spring.
> 
> It can take upsampling to 768 but no one has commented on the sound of this state yet.


 
  
 Actually, the Holo Spring won't run at 768.  I have one and use it with HQ Player.  When I send 768 to it the display just shows dashes.


----------



## Robert McAdam

Thanks for that Superdad, what will it run to? Actually I see on the latest spec sheet 32/384 using USB or I2s. Interesting I'm sure on the original release spec sheet it said 32/768. This has been replaced with a new one.
  
 I asked Ted_b about this and he suggested it could take 24/768 in NOS last year. He didn't try it at this rate, though in his review he did take it to: "16/44 upsampled (via HQplayer) to 24/352.8k (via I2S) as it renders a more accurate (to my ears) upper extension and a slightly tighter bass"
 His most recent update says he has used it to 32/384.
  
  
Shame as I just lost interest if only goes to 384. Mind you few players do go to 768.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

What ever happened to the good ol 24/192 days? Now everyone was to get close to fcpga #s but keep it in nos??


----------



## Robert McAdam

Nothing a lot of DACs still run at 24/192 my Benchmark DAC2 included. But even running 16/44 files upsampled to 24/192 in the software(XXhighend) sounds better to my ears as it does with Ted_b's experience in the Spring review.
  
 The Phasure NOSa DAC has been running 24/768 since July 2011 so its not a new idea. All who own these swear by the sound at 24/768.


----------



## rudra

So much for NOS if one is up sampling in software.  In the wild west of the internet hard to separate fact from marketing.


----------



## Robert McAdam

> In the wild west of the internet hard to separate fact from marketing


 
 It sure is but over time you usually get the right answer or the one you are looking for. The internet is the greatest invention. I'm just watching and waiting the Holo is very new but it certainly has upped the stakes in DAC's and other Chinese are producing some interesting Dac's. In terms of pricing if they can get the sound much better its going to be devastating for US and European manufacturers.


----------



## gr8soundz

Upsampling can work well as long as it doesn't increase noise. Just look at all the Chord dacs (Hugo, Mojo, Dave) which upsample to over 2000 times.
  
 I've upsampled (transcoded) lower quality stuff as high as 22MHz (DSD512) with an iDSD Micro and Foobar2K. The music did sound smoother but I also heard the clicks and pops mentioned earlier.


----------



## rudra

robert mcadam said:


> It sure is but over time you usually get the right answer or the one you are looking for. The internet is the greatest invention. I'm just watching and waiting the Holo is very new but it certainly has upped the stakes in DAC's and other Chinese are producing some interesting Dac's. In terms of pricing if they can get the sound much better its going to be devastating for US and European manufacturers.


 
 I will eventually get the answer I am looking for rather than what is right/correct. Saying that I have Denafrips on it ways. Going to dip my toe in the R2R world. Not fussed at this stage if it NOS/OS. over time I will end up trying a NOS R2R dac once they become more affordable(relative)


----------



## gr8soundz

rudra said:


> I will eventually get the answer I am looking for rather than what is right/correct. Saying that I have Denafrips on it ways. Going to dip my toe in the R2R world. Not fussed at this stage if it NOS/OS. over time I will end up trying a NOS R2R dac once they become more affordable(relative)


 
  
 Same here. No experience with R2R yet other than the hybrid multi-bit iDSD. I'm currently upsampling to 192kHz on my sound card with upgraded opamps and planned to order a Soekris next week but still haven't decided 100%.
  
 EDIT: Would rather have the Holo Spring but price is a factor at the moment.
  
 Didn't know about the Denafrips but researching it now.


----------



## Energy

Hmmm.. Am I the only one here who likes NOS without oversampling? I have both J.River and HQPlayer but choose to listen stock 16/44.1kHz. The upsampling to 192kHz sounds smoother but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better to my ears. It doesn't let me depict things out as easily.


----------



## gr8soundz

I only started going to 192kHz (or higher) because it was less fatiguing. I agree that while it is smoother its also not as accurate sounding. That's been with mostly delta-sigma dacs though.
  
 Hopefully, with an R2R dac, I can leave all the tweaks off and play at native rates including 16/44. Really like the Holo Spring's specs going from NOS all the way up to DSD512.


----------



## chaos215bar2

robert mcadam said:


> > Originally Posted by *rudra* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> >
> > So much for NOS if one is up sampling in software.  In the wild west of the internet hard to separate fact from marketing.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, indeed. You usually get one or the other. Sometimes even both!


----------



## Energy

Whatever helps you confirm your beliefs haha.

@gr8soundz - thanks for that. I agree with you fully as I've used many delta sigma's in the past and the oversampling on the program does help to smooth out some digital glare and edges making making the entire spectrum not as fatiguing, however creates a blurred out sound stage and doesn't help for image rendering accuracy. Playing files natively fixes this but the sharp introduction of each instrument or timbre has too much going on. R2R on the otherhand does so in a revealing yet soft manner very akin to real life. There's no push, but a natural sound that's well distinctive yet overflowing with detail and resolution.

I know the whole idea of Holo Audio Spring is to perform NOS well, so well in which the hardware filters are removed and left up to the user on whether or not they want to do so on the program or operating system but each time I play a 16/44.1khz file in NOS and oversample it to ANY sample rate, it just doesn't sound as accurate and everything becomes fuzzy. It similar or equilvalent to a setup thats getting too much digital noise from the computer. Because everything sounds more smoothed out, I begin to perceive a wider sound stage, but once going back to the native file unsampled and listening back to back between the two, i realize the stage wasn't any smaller. I'm starting to think that to me the only gain of oversample in program is obtaining a less fatiguing sound by offering a more laid back presentation. That may be a good thing for some, for me, I like to depict sounds so it's not my cup of tea. As a audiophile, I listen to become engaged by the music. Sometimes we close our eyes to be immersed by music. Some prefer to take it head on while others prefer to be swept by it.


----------



## soundfanz

rudra said:


> I will eventually get the answer I am looking for rather than what is right/correct. Saying that I have Denafrips on it ways. Going to dip my toe in the R2R world. Not fussed at this stage if it NOS/OS. over time I will end up trying a NOS R2R dac once they become more affordable(relative)


 
  
  
 I too am dipping my toe into Dacs. I received my Denafrips Ares yesterday, and  in the short time I've had it up and running it's been incredibly good. My first ever external Dac.
  
 Hopefully with a USB Regen, Curious Regen Link, and a Linear Power Supply Unit (all are on their way) my  Ares Dac will sound even better. 
  
 ps: I have Cherry Omni/Ori's too. Love them.


----------



## rudra

soundfanz said:


> ps: I have Cherry Omni/Ori's too. Love them.


 
 The Ori is addictive.


----------



## T Bone

I have finally published my review of the Level 1 Spring DAC.
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/holo-audio-spring-dac-level-1-base-model/reviews/18099 
  
 I spent a lot of time on the review and I hope you find it an interesting read.  
  
 Pardon me while I go find my flame retardant suit.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 With @Torq's review of the Level 3 and my review of the Level 1 - we just need someone to step up and write a review of the Level 2.  Personally, I think that will be the hardest review to write.  Everyone will want to know how it differs from the level 1 and level 3


----------



## rudra

@T Bone nice write up.


----------



## hyperdanny

for Europeans: I have just found out that the well respected Dutch retailer Magna Hifi sells the Holo, all 3 variants.
 Skipping the tariffs and fees and taxes is a big deal. (they are really high&quite unpredictable in my country)
 Now, if only they would start selling the Denafrips,  I find that even more appealing....


----------



## remoss

Magna Hifi is a very good retailer, i ordered my Holo also from these guys! Delivery will be the end of march i heard. Can't wait 
  
 Level 1 review (in Dutch) : http://www.audioenzo.nl/holo-audio-spring-dac-level-1/


----------



## Tboooe

@T Bone thank you for the review.  Can you please let me know if you felt the Intona after the SU-1 made a worthwhile improvement?


----------



## ppnuts

> Hmmm.. Am I the only one here who likes NOS without oversampling? I have both J.River and HQPlayer but choose to listen stock 16/44.1kHz. The upsampling to 192kHz sounds smoother but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better to my ears. It doesn't let me depict things out as easily.


 
 No, you are not alone. NOS in Holo makes me non-stop, always coming back for more. It's like vinyl being played with a moving coil cartridge with an absolutely clean stylus, perfectly in focus and with plenty of air for everything that comes out.


----------



## Energy

t bone said:


> I have finally published my review of the Level 1 Spring DAC.
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/holo-audio-spring-dac-level-1-base-model/reviews/18099
> 
> I spent a lot of time on the review and I hope you find it an interesting read.
> ...


 
  
 Incredible and well thought out review.
  
 Personally I've had level 1 and 2 and don't hear any comparable differences.
 Have also heard a friend's level 3 in which I've only found to be a bit more transparent.


ppnuts said:


> No, you are not alone. NOS in Holo makes me non-stop, always coming back for more. It's like vinyl being played with a moving coil cartridge with an absolutely clean stylus, perfectly in focus and with plenty of air for everything that comes out.


 
  
 Now I only listen to NOS and R2R Ladder DAC's. They are indeed first class.


----------



## T Bone

tboooe said:


> @T Bone thank you for the review.  Can you please let me know if you felt the Intona after the SU-1 made a worthwhile improvement?


 
 I tried 4x different configurations:

USB Only - no devices (the control group)
 sound is "meh".   Not happy
USB via Intona only
 Bigger soundstage, more depth 
I2S via SU-1 only
 Similar improvements in soundstage, significant improvement in treble response & roll off
I2S via Intona + SU1 
 Very good combo - happiness
  
 I published more details one Sunday afternoon in this post. 
 The improvement that the combination of the two devices made wasn't as stark as the difference that each device made on its own.  It was noticeable though.
 If I could only afford one device, I would choose the SU-1.


----------



## T Bone

energy said:


> Am I the only one here who likes NOS without oversampling? I have both J.River and HQPlayer but choose to listen stock 16/44.1kHz.


 
 I am with you @Energy - I listen to NOS 16/44.1 all the time.
 The quality of the mastering makes so much more of a difference than sample rate.  A crap recording at a higher sample rate is still a crap recording.
  
 I was listening to some old Stevie Wonder recorded in 1972.  Standard CD resolution sounds AMAZING because the mastering of the CD was done right.
  
 I love Florence + The Machine.  However her albums just don't sound good on my HeadFi system.   It's the mastering that matters.  Without swerving into the loudness wars, there's no space in the recordings.   Most of the tracks sounds like they were recorded in a closet and someone went to the mixing board and pushed all the levels to 11.
 Higher sampling rates will never fix that.


----------



## Tboooe

Anyone else experiencing some static with their Spring DAC?  Every once in while I briefly hear some static.  Its not very loud but definitely noticeable.  I use Roon and HQP to convert all my PCM files to DSD256, played through the SU-1.  With my previous DAC. I never heard this static.  The only thing that changed in my system was the addition of the Spring DAC and using and HDMI cable instead of a SPDIF (BNC terminated).


----------



## Benny-x

t bone said:


> I love Florence + The Machine.  However her albums just don't sound good on my HeadFi system.   It's the mastering that matters.  Without swerving into the loudness wars, there's no space in the recordings.   Most of the tracks sounds like they were recorded in a closet and someone went to the mixing board and pushed all the levels to 11.




There was like a fan bootleg or whatever made by a limited time group called the Unmasters, maybe, and they had some personal technique for removing the loudness across the board, but not messing with the actual sound. Anyway, one of the albums that were Unmastered was a Florence + The Machine one and sure as schiit it did sound very good and better than the original.


----------



## T Bone

benny-x said:


> There was like a fan bootleg or whatever made by a limited time group called the Unmasters, maybe, and they had some personal technique for removing the loudness across the board, but not messing with the actual sound.


 
 Now I'm going to obsess over that and scour the darker corners of the web looking for a bootleg!
 I've got to find that.


----------



## Energy

I love your signature there T Bone :]
  
 We practically have the same setup. The BETA 22 is like 95% similar to the GS-X MKII. I have both in hand at the moment.
  
 I'm glad after the burn in you were able to appreciate the Holo Audio Spring.


----------



## T Bone

energy said:


> I love your signature there T Bone :]


 
 Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!  
 I admit it, I gratuitously  ripped off your sig


----------



## gk2013

I had a chance to listen to the Holo Spring L1 DAC. I expected something nice but in fact it performed very - very good. Remarkable three dimensional sound stage! The sound is at its best in NOS mode - my opinion - I am just wondering what the Level 2 and 3 will add. Is the Level 3 substantially better to level 2? (I will buy in Netherlands)


----------



## oneguy

energy said:


> Incredible and well thought out review.
> 
> Personally I've had level 1 and 2 and don't hear any comparable differences.
> Have also heard a friend's level 3 in which I've only found to be a bit more transparent.
> ...




Here's one opinion as a data point.


----------



## punit

gk2013 said:


> I had a chance to listen to the Holo Spring L1 DAC. I expected something nice but in fact it performed very - very good. Remarkable three dimensional sound stage! The sound is at its best in NOS mode - my opinion - I am just wondering what the Level 2 and 3 will add. Is the Level 3 substantially better to level 2? (I will buy in Netherlands)


 
 what other DAC's do you have experience with (just to get a point of reference)?


----------



## gk2013

punit said:


> what other DAC's do you have experience with (just to get a point of reference)?


 
  
 - Schitt Yggdrasil
 - Audio-GD Master 7 and NOS 7 (Directly compared)
 - Several not worth mentioning


----------



## DecentLevi

That would be interesting indeed if you would compare your level 1 to your Yggy, using the same amp and headphones and recordings of course... oh I see you don't have it yet so maybe just some impressions by memory


----------



## Tboooe

tboooe said:


> Anyone else experiencing some static with their Spring DAC?  Every once in while I briefly hear some static.  Its not very loud but definitely noticeable.  I use Roon and HQP to convert all my PCM files to DSD256, played through the SU-1.  With my previous DAC. I never heard this static.  The only thing that changed in my system was the addition of the Spring DAC and using and HDMI cable instead of a SPDIF (BNC terminated).


 
  So no one else hears static or crackling every once in a while????


----------



## gk2013

tboooe said:


> So no one else hears static or crackling every once in a while????


 
  
 Do you only experience this noise with DSD or also PCM at higher bit rates?
 What length of HDMI cable are you using. You might want to try a short one (i.e. 60cm). Specially with DSD this will become more important.


----------



## Tboooe

gk2013 said:


> Do you only experience this noise with DSD or also PCM at higher bit rates?
> What length of HDMI cable are you using. You might want to try a short one (i.e. 60cm). Specially with DSD this will become more important.


 
 Thank you for the reply.  I use HQP to convert both PCM and DSD to DSD256,
  
 I am using a very short hdmi cable already.


----------



## WNBC

Interesting, I wish I had taken notes while the Spring was burning in as I did use the DAC during the process.  I know some just let the DAC burn and check back in when the process is complete.  
  
 I vaguely do recall a static or crackling every so often, but not by any means constant or patterned.  Your post did jog my memory as I was potentially worried at the time, but figured I'd wait to see if it developed into something more.  The static was never loud, barely audible in the background and only lasted for a brief second so nothing sustained.  I thought maybe it was my tube amp, but I wasn't sure.  Or who knows, maybe had to do with SU-1 burning in or something else related to my occasionally buggy music player or something to do with a power issue in the house.  All that has since gone away over time and I didn't do anything to fix the problem since I didn't know the origin.  All this probably doesn't help you, but hopefully it does away for you over time.  
  
 Is your static more consistent and patterned?
  
 My setup:  Macbook > Amarra > FLAC 16/44 (no upsampling) > Intona > SU-1 > Spring
  
  
 Quote:


tboooe said:


> So no one else hears static or crackling every once in a while????


----------



## Tboooe

Thank you for the reply.  The crackling noise is not consistent at all.  There is no pattern or cause that I can pinpoint yet.  As you mentioned its not at all loud or anything that would have me concerned about potentially damaging my equipment.
  
 I will keep my ears open and see if it diminishes over time.  I've only had the Spring for 1.5 weeks.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

No odd noises here. No dsd use though


----------



## Torq

tboooe said:


> Thank you for the reply.  The crackling noise is not consistent at all.  There is no pattern or cause that I can pinpoint yet.  As you mentioned its not at all loud or anything that would have me concerned about potentially damaging my equipment.
> 
> I will keep my ears open and see if it diminishes over time.  I've only had the Spring for 1.5 weeks.


 
  
 Depending on what input into the Spring DAC you're using, the chances are what you are hearing is the usual glitches with DSD that occur during mode and sample-rate changes.  As the feed switches from PCM mode to DSD you'll get some clicks/pops/static, and the same thing will occur with DSD sample rate changes (e.g. going from DSD64 to DSD128).
  
 I don't think it occurs via the USB input on the Spring DAC, but it happens with the SU-1 via I2S if I run a playlist that has mixed PCM/DSD content and/or has DSD rate changes in it.
  
 The Spring DAC is by no means the only unit to exhibit this behavior with DSD, though I think the actual issue is in the interface not the DAC itself (I've never bothered to try and resolve it since I don't upsample to DSD and don't have enough mixed-rate native DSD content to run into it very often).


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

t bone Benny-x Her latest album is in HDTracks and they have a much better master over CD. I own both and difference is very noticeable in a transparent system


----------



## Tboooe

torq said:


> Depending on what input into the Spring DAC you're using, the chances are what you are hearing is the usual glitches with DSD that occur during mode and sample-rate changes.  As the feed switches from PCM mode to DSD you'll get some clicks/pops/static, and the same thing will occur with DSD sample rate changes (e.g. going from DSD64 to DSD128).
> 
> I don't think it occurs via the USB input on the Spring DAC, but it happens with the SU-1 via I2S if I run a playlist that has mixed PCM/DSD content and/or has DSD rate changes in it.
> 
> The Spring DAC is by no means the only unit to exhibit this behavior with DSD, though I think the actual issue is in the interface not the DAC itself (I've never bothered to try and resolve it since I don't upsample to DSD and don't have enough mixed-rate native DSD content to run into it very often).


 
 Thank you @Torq   I convert everything to DSD256 using HQP so there is never mixed formats or rates.  Also the sound occurs in the middle of songs.


----------



## Torq

tboooe said:


> Thank you @Torq   I convert everything to DSD256 using HQP so there is never mixed formats or rates.  Also the sound occurs in the middle of songs.


 

 Are you doing on-the-fly up sampling to DSD256?
  
 If so, then the chief initial suspect would be that what you're hearing is actually a result of dropouts due to your computer not being able to handle the load reliably.  This depends, of course, a lot on what you're running HQP on (i.e. how powerful a machine), various other system configuration options, and what else the machine is doing at the same time.
  
 One way to troubleshoot that is to *pre-convert* a bunch of files to DSD and just play those directly, which will put much less demand on your machine.  If that works, then you can be reasonably sure of what's going on, and if it doesn't then it's likely interface/transport related.


----------



## Tboooe

torq said:


> Are you doing on-the-fly up sampling to DSD256?
> 
> If so, then the chief initial suspect would be that what you're hearing is actually a result of dropouts due to your computer not being able to handle the load reliably.  This depends, of course, a lot on what you're running HQP on (i.e. how powerful a machine), various other system configuration options, and what else the machine is doing at the same time.
> 
> One way to troubleshoot that is to *pre-convert* a bunch of files to DSD and just play those directly, which will put much less demand on your machine.  If that works, then you can be reasonably sure of what's going on, and if it doesn't then it's likely interface/transport related.


 
 Makes a lot of sense.  However, I didnt hear any of these sounds with my previous DAC.  Adding the Spring and using I2S is the only things that have changed in my system.


----------



## Torq

tboooe said:


> Makes a lot of sense.  However, I didnt hear any of these sounds with my previous DAC.  Adding the Spring and using I2S is the only things that have changed in my system.


 

 Depending on what your previous DAC was, and how you were driving it, that might be enough to tip the scales.
  
 If, for example, your last DAC was being fed by USB and had a larger receive buffer, it's entirely possible such issues would be covered up entirely.  The pre-convert option I described is a simple way to eliminate your PC's power as a source of the issue.  
  
 If you drive the Spring DAC directly via USB do you get these noises?
  
 I can tell you that DSD256 into the SU-1 and then via I2S (using a 30cm/0.3m cable) makes no noises during play in my setup.  Only at the start and end of DSD playback is there any noise (and, as previously mentioned, when the rate changes, but in this case I'm using all DSD256 content).  Try the pre-convert option and see what that yields (and/or tell us what your  source is, it's hardware spec and what else it is doing during playback).


----------



## gr8soundz

torq said:


> Are you doing on-the-fly up sampling to DSD256?
> 
> *If so, then the chief initial suspect would be that what you're hearing is actually a result of dropouts due to your computer not being able to handle the load reliably.  This depends, of course, a lot on what you're running HQP on (i.e. how powerful a machine), various other system configuration options, and what else the machine is doing at the same time.*
> 
> One way to troubleshoot that is to *pre-convert* a bunch of files to DSD and just play those directly, which will put much less demand on your machine.  If that works, then you can be reasonably sure of what's going on, and if it doesn't then it's likely interface/transport related.


 
  
 I can attest to this. When I was transcoding as high as DSD512 with an iFi Micro, my Haswell i7 reached close to 40% cpu usage. Doing ANYTHING else simultaneously on the computer resulted in static and clicks/pops.
  
 Raising the buffer and latency settings helped but doing so (for me) was slightly counterproductive to getting the best sound possible.


----------



## gk2013

tboooe said:


> Thank you for the reply.  I use HQP to convert both PCM and DSD to DSD256,
> 
> I am using a very short hdmi cable already.


 
  
 Ok - Do you use the Holo in NOS mode? 
 If you convert it to DSD 64 - still issues?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Got my review Level 3 DAC today. It is a beast of a DAC, but still very much a beauty at the same time. The construction is S-O-L-I-D and I love the colour scheme with the black and copper. Listening to some DSD now via USB (feeding my GS-X MK2 and HD800S headphones)....sounds glorious right out of the box. I'm staying with NOS mode for the next few days first before I try oversampling. Right off the bat, it has a lot of the magic that my old Metrum Hex NOS DAC had, but with plenty more resolution and transparency. More to come...


----------



## joseph69

macedonianhero said:


> Got my review Level 3 DAC today. It is a beast of a DAC, but still very much a beauty at the same time. The construction is S-O-L-I-D and I love the colour scheme with the black and copper. Listening to some DSD now via USB (feeding my GS-X MK2 and HD800S headphones)....sounds glorious right out of the box. I'm staying with NOS mode for the next few days first before I try oversampling. Right off the bat, it has a lot of the magic that my old Metrum Hex NOS DAC had, but with plenty more resolution and transparency. More to come...


 
 Nice.
 I mentioned/found that it sounded great right out of the box as well, enjoy!


----------



## T Bone

macedonianhero said:


> Listening to some DSD now via USB (feeding my GS-X MK2 and HD800S headphones)....sounds glorious right out of the box.


 
 Glad to hear that you've received your DAC and looking forward to reading your review too.
 Will all of your critical listening & review be conducted using the USB input or do you plan to exercise the AES and/or I2S inputs?


----------



## theboch

I did receive my Level 1 "basic" edition yesterday from the Netherlands.
  
 As a lot of people already stated I can also confirm the great build quality and finish!
  
 I use the DAC with my BHSE and the SR-009's.
  
 I have previously owned a PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MKII and can only compare it to that one really...
  
 So just some short statements on my first impressions (NOS mode only, mainly redbook media, COAX, optical):
  

Very resolving
Very organic, "analog" sounding DAC (somebody mentioned it sounds like vinyl, I think I know what he meant)
This DAC somehow takes away the "hot" fatiguing sound and you can enjoy it for hours
While I would describe it sounding "warm" its not "warm" in terms of colouring the sound, ... it is hard to describe. It is still extremely natural sounding.
While this DAC is somehow extremely resolving on "modern" perfectly mastered pieces and you hear a lot of detail, it also works great for older 60s and 70s recordings and does not over-emphasize the noise on those tracks like the PWD did
  
 Compared against the PWD, I like the Spring a lot more. Especially if you count in the difference on the price tag... I would not want to go back to the PWD.
  
*This DAC is really worth giving it a try! *I think it is a bargain which should be able to "keep up" with much more expensive devices...


----------



## Energy

macedonianhero said:


> Got my review Level 3 DAC today. It is a beast of a DAC, but still very much a beauty at the same time. The construction is S-O-L-I-D and I love the colour scheme with the black and copper. Listening to some DSD now via USB (feeding my GS-X MK2 and HD800S headphones)....sounds glorious right out of the box. I'm staying with NOS mode for the next few days first before I try oversampling. Right off the bat, it has a lot of the magic that my old Metrum Hex NOS DAC had, but with plenty more resolution and transparency. More to come...


 
  
 I had a strong feeling you'd like this DAC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


theboch said:


> I did receive my Level 1 "basic" edition yesterday from the Netherlands.
> 
> As a lot of people already stated I can also confirm the great build quality and finish!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Great setup you have. It must be widely apparent the differences with someone so revealing to the source as the 009.
  
 Your findings are the same as mine and so many people on here who share the Holo Audio Spring.
  
 Many people think something that sounds vinyl means it sounds "old school" like scrapping on discs, but that's definitely not the case. It just has this organic and lifelike sound signature to it. Like how music or live recordings should sound like. Less of the digital mess. The first thing I noticed is how effortlessly music came out. Comparing to some older delta sigma's you'll notice that there's less fatigue. Less ring in the upper registry that you don't notice before and the bass also sounds much less bloated. With those things gone and a huge flutter of details create such a balanced overall sound. Voices are defined better without this edge to it. More so glowing than shining with glare.
  
 NOS & R2R Ladder combined is so incredibly good in providing top notch music enjoyment. Before I was analyzing little details in music with my HD800S, now even with the improved bass, treble, image, sound stage, etc, it just simply doesn't matter anymore. Even with more given sonics, I pay less attention. So many things are emphasized so effortlessly and balanced one just sits to enjoy such harmony.
  
 I think the biggest feat for me is how well rendered each instrument timbre or electronic sound is. Before with previous DAC's I've heard, the instrument's initial note didn't have enough clarity to it, as if it was dampened. The sound also lingered for longer than it was suppose to. Without the filters that NOS provide and the accuracy of the R2R Ladder, these notes have an edge to them, natural, non-fatiguing. Like with bass impact, these notes have an articulate impact to them and decayed at the right time. Blackening out as quick as when they came. To hear so many details and everything pushed forth yet to still be well categorized on the stage without touching one another. The separation of each sound edge is just something else... I have to say, I had a lot of trouble before with center vocals and other instruments or add-on vocals that is present behind or in front of the singer. With the Holo Audio Spring you can hear better layers in sound, both vertical and horizontal. It's apparent a person could be in front whispering softly or if they're just in back speaking loudly. Holographic is the best word. Like Cortana from the Halo video games. You see a 3D render of sound in your head. Laser for laser floating there... That said, I notice more transparency through headphones as they're more intimate and 3D from speaker use due to it's more layered presentation.


----------



## thyname

What is the difference between these three types of DACs:
  
 1 - (traditional) Delta / Sigma
  
 2 - Multibit (such as Schiit Modi, Bifrost, Gungnir Multibit)
  
 3 - R23 (like Holo Spring, or Denafrips)
  
 Can somebody point me to a resource / link?
  
 Thanks


----------



## joseph69

I have the same Stax system as you do, and I've also replaced my PWD-ll (which is a great DAC) with the Spring "KTE" and I'm amazed with the immediate improvements over the PWD-ll and it only gets better!


----------



## theboch

Hah  Thats truly a coincidence
  
 Good to see that someone with the same system feels the same improvements. Should be a good indicator for other people interested in the Spring!


----------



## mscott58

thyname said:


> What is the difference between these three types of DACs:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


You mean R2R?


----------



## thyname

mscott58 said:


> thyname said:
> 
> 
> > What is the difference between these three types of DACs:
> ...




Yes. Sorry for the typo


----------



## MacedonianHero

t bone said:


> Glad to hear that you've received your DAC and looking forward to reading your review too.
> Will all of your critical listening & review be conducted using the USB input or do you plan to exercise the AES and/or I2S inputs?


 
  
 Right now it's USB, but there is a Singxer SU-1 coming in for the review as well. That said, I'm usually a minimalist when it comes to audio and prefer less things in the audio path that could add colouration. But my mind is certainly open to being changed with evidence. 
  
 Tonight I'm using the optical input (playing some of my favourite CDs) and I'm really enjoying this DAC! Next up will be back to USB audio (most likely DSD recordings).


----------



## Energy

This link speaks briefly on it. Gives you the general details. http://www.mother-of-tone.com/conversion.htm
  
 Multibit is also R2R by the way.
  
 1. Delta Sigma (good)
 2. R2R Multibit (better)
 3. R2R Ladder (best)
  
 Delta Sigma (DS) has a single switch and lots of guessing done. It's in short, a single switch or 1-bit.
 R2R Multibit is like what you see with old chips like the PCM1704, it has more switches implemented thus has the ability to decode multiple bits of information (multi-bit).
 R2R Ladder has resistors to compensate the voltages instead of these switches thus is more accurate. The removal of the switch noises that can cause measurable ring improves further on sound quality.
  
 No-OverSampling (NOS) removes the FIR filters and whatever else digital oversampling that's built into the hardware (oversampling chips), generally to smooth out the edged lines and improve SNR/THD measurements. The key concept about NOS is to remove all these filters to retain the original signal. It's a "purist" approach. Theoretically our ears already have natural filters built in since birth, so when hearing an original sample, you'll perceive it as sounding more realistic. It's not only a perception because it's in fact true. Analog should retain it's natural qualities. Also when a signal leaves the DAC, it already goes through certain filters of it's own. No need for abundance. The idea is that too much filtering will just lead to digital glare. By removing all this, the NOS sound becomes more like vinyl (likelife). Music no longer sounds forced. The con however of removing these filters is that the measurements of the DAC doesn't run as high. People assume the best DAC's have the best numbers and that's certainly untrue. Brands fight for numbers because they know it's a selling point thus implement the use of more delta sigma chips to lower THD and increase SNR. While the use of more chips does improve sound quality by a small margin, there's a limit cap to how better it gets. Generally by switching from a delta sigma DAC to a delta sigma DAC, you might be getting a more different sonic signature than an actual improvement. Perhaps the improvement is that you like it more, so there's that...


----------



## yage

energy said:


> This link speaks briefly on it. Gives you the general details. http://www.mother-of-tone.com/conversion.htm
> 
> Multibit is also R2R by the way.
> 
> ...


 
  
 There's a lot of gross oversimplifications and multiple inaccuracies in this post. A good start to truly understanding these technologies would be reading the Analog Devices tutorials (both ADC and DAC) by Walt Kester. Do a search online, you'll find them.


----------



## mscott58

yage said:


> There's a lot of gross oversimplifications and multiple inaccuracies in this post. A good start to truly understanding these technologies would be reading the Analog Devices tutorials (both ADC and DAC) by Walt Kester. Do a search online, you'll find them.


 
 I think this is what was being referenced.
  
 http://www.analog.com/en/education/courses-and-tutorials/tutorials/mixed-signal-electronics-systems.html
  
 Lots of technical stuff here, so 99.9+% of the population will have no interest reading this (even us engineers who have been trained on a good amount of this stuff). 
  
 I applaud @Energy as he was at least trying to be helpful, and I don't believe he was trying to be fully accurate and complete. 
  
 Cheers


----------



## yage

mscott58 said:


> I think this is what was being referenced.
> 
> http://www.analog.com/en/education/courses-and-tutorials/tutorials/mixed-signal-electronics-systems.html
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, I applaud the effort. But so much pointless mud gets slung over sigma-delta vs. R-2R conversion that I'm tired of yet another audiophile perpetuating the cycle. The tutorials aren't too difficult to understand with some effort. Anything worth knowing is going to require you to use some gray matter in the process.


----------



## mscott58

yage said:


> Yes, I applaud the effort. But so much pointless mud gets slung over sigma-delta vs. R-2R conversion that I'm tired of yet another audiophile perpetuating the cycle. The tutorials aren't too difficult to understand with some effort. Anything worth knowing is going to require you to use some gray matter in the process.


 
 True. Overall less mud slinging and more personal listening, combined with a live-and-let-live attitude would make everything better on the boards. Cheers


----------



## thyname

energy said:


> This link speaks briefly on it. Gives you the general details. http://www.mother-of-tone.com/conversion.htm
> 
> Multibit is also R2R by the way.
> 
> ...




Thanks! Very informative and at the same not too technically challenging.

I had no idea that a "Multibit " is R2R....

So for example, the Schiit Mimby, Bimby, Gumby are R2R Multibit, and Holo Spring , Denafrips are R2R Ladder?


----------



## Energy

My apologies. I was typing super vague to the point where I slurred out blurred lines of inaccuracy. I kinda made it beyond simple and that made it ambiguous and wrong.
  
 Thanks for not grilling me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 Quote:


thyname said:


> Thanks! Very informative and at the same not too technically challenging.
> 
> I had no idea that a "Multibit " is R2R....
> 
> So for example, the Schiit Mimby, Bimby, Gumby are R2R Multibit, and Holo Spring , Denafrips are R2R Ladder?


 
  
 You can read a little more about it here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/779572/r2r-multibit-vs-delta-sigma#post_12038925
  
 Mimby, Bimby, Gumby, Yggy, all R2R Multibit.
 Holo Audio Spring, Total DAC, MSB Analo/DAC V, Aqua HiFi Formula, Metrum Menuet/Pavane, Denafrips Ares, all R2R Ladder.
  
 It's easy to tell when you check the insides out. The ones with R2R Ladder has rows of resistors or sometimes placed on modules. Higher end ones have dual mono's per channel for differential mode. Some companies offer NOS, some OS, and a few offers both with a push of a button for OS/NOS toggle. Holo Audio Spring being one of them.


----------



## thyname

energy said:


> You can read a little more about it here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/779572/r2r-multibit-vs-delta-sigma#post_12038925
> 
> Mimby, Bimby, Gumby, Yggy, all R2R Multibit.
> Holo Audio Spring, Total DAC, MSB Analo/DAC V, Aqua HiFi Formula, Metrum Menuet/Pavane, Denafrips Ares, all R2R Ladder.
> ...




Thanks. I realize I have quite a bit to read.

I had a Mimby but I am not very thrilled with it. Bifrost 4490 sounds better to my ears. Since my Amp is balanced , I would look for a Balanced R2R DAC, which gets me to $1,000+ territory (Gumby). Ares is about $650 with shipping (doable), but I am skeptical of overseas shipping, as there are no US based dealers for Denafrips


----------



## Energy

thyname said:


> Thanks. I realize I have quite a bit to read.
> 
> I had a Mimby but I am not very thrilled with it. Bifrost 4490 sounds better to my ears. Since my Amp is balanced , I would look for a Balanced R2R DAC, which gets me to $1,000+ territory (Gumby). Ares is about $650 with shipping (doable), but I am skeptical of overseas shipping, as there are no US based dealers for Denafrips


 
  
 We catch ourselves countless times throughout the day not doing anything productive. Now during those times you can take out your phone linked to Head-Fi and do some reading. It'll really benefit your purchasing decisions and lead you to happiness.
  
 If you're looking at under $1000, The Denafrips Ares is a good place to start. I've had a Gungnir and MultiBit upgrade before but still preferred R2R Ladder. I have sold my Yggdrasil recently but it competed very well against my Holo Audio Spring (Level 1). I had the Level 2 but sold it as it didn't sound any better to my ears. I only sold the Yggdrasil due to the introduction of a new DAC into my system called the Metrum Pavane. I got a good steal from a fellow Head-Fier for $2,500 otherwise I would never spend over $2000 on a DAC. It's a personal choice.
  
 Honestly the thing that changes the sound most to me is by upgrading a speaker or a headphone. The second would be the DAC. I've heard more DAC differencies than I have with amplifiers. Please note that the Ares does not do NOS, one crucial feature that I find translate to natural sound production.
  
 If I were you I'd save up my bucks and get a used Holo Audio Spring for $1000-1200. Linear compensated, NOS, R2R Ladder, transformer is further from the output and conversion stage, does DSD just in case you'll ever need it, and offers I2S Input. Just recommending. YMMV.


----------



## thyname

energy said:


> We catch ourselves countless times throughout the day not doing anything productive. Now during those times you can take out your phone linked to Head-Fi and do some reading. It'll really benefit your purchasing decisions and lead you to happiness.
> 
> If you're looking at under $1000, The Denafrips Ares is a good place to start. I've had a Gungnir and MultiBit upgrade before but still preferred R2R Ladder. I have sold my Yggdrasil recently but it competed very well against my Holo Audio Spring (Level 1). I had the Level 2 but sold it as it didn't sound any better to my ears. I only sold the Yggdrasil due to the introduction of a new DAC into my system called the Metrum Pavane. I got a good steal from a fellow Head-Fier for $2,500 otherwise I would never spend over $2000 on a DAC. It's a personal choice.
> 
> ...




Much appreciated! Your post is to the point and extremely helpful.

I agree on the headphones. I went through a bunch,and also listened to a dozen in meet up. I settled on HD 800, and don't regret it. I think I am done with headphones. HD 800 is good for me.

I also think I am set with Amp. Happy with my Matrix M-series HPA-3B. Really good and powerful for the price.

As you can tell, not settled on DACs.

Sold TEAC UD-503 and Bifrost 4490. Returning Mimby. Got a Matrix Quattro II, and will keep it for a while. Cannot afford Gumby. But really itching to try a Ladder R2R.

As you advised, I will save my money, and be in a lookout for a used Holo Spring


----------



## T Bone

macedonianhero said:


> Right now it's USB, but there is a Singxer SU-1 coming in for the review as well.
> 
> Tonight I'm using the optical input (playing some of my favourite CDs) and I'm really enjoying this DAC! Next up will be back to USB audio (most likely DSD recordings).


 
 I wasn't all that impressed with USB input's performance.  I think you'll get better results from your optical source.  I feel that the Holo's USB implementation leaves something on the table. 
  
 You and I both evaluated the Benchmark DAC3.  My sense was that the Benchmark's USB section was tip-top and able to cope with a less-than-perfect USB signal from my laptop.  The Spring didn't handle the same USB signal with the grace of the Benchmark.  I am eager to hear your thoughts on this topic.

 I agree with your testing methodology about keeping things simple as possible.


----------



## lukeap69

thyname said:


> Thanks. I realize I have quite a bit to read.
> 
> I had a Mimby but I am not very thrilled with it. Bifrost 4490 sounds better to my ears. Since my Amp is balanced , I would look for a Balanced R2R DAC, which gets me to $1,000+ territory (Gumby). Ares is about $650 with shipping (doable), but I am skeptical of overseas shipping, as there are no US based dealers for Denafrips




I have both the Holo Spring and the ARES and I think you will not be missing much if you buy the ARES. I still prefer my Spring but if I did not hear it before the ARES, I could have just settled for the ARES. Just my 2 cents and of course IMHO and YMMV.


----------



## gr8soundz

energy said:


> Multibit is also R2R by the way.
> 
> 1. Delta Sigma (good)
> 2. R2R Multibit (better)
> 3. R2R Ladder (best)


 



energy said:


> Mimby, Bimby, Gumby, Yggy, all R2R Multibit.
> Holo Audio Spring, Total DAC, MSB Analo/DAC V, Aqua HiFi Formula, Metrum Menuet/Pavane, Denafrips Ares, all R2R Ladder.
> 
> It's easy to tell when you check the insides out. The ones with R2R Ladder has rows of resistors or sometimes placed on modules. Higher end ones have dual mono's per channel for differential mode. Some companies offer NOS, some OS, and a few offers both with a push of a button for OS/NOS toggle. Holo Audio Spring being one of them.


 
  
 Thanks for posting such a simple explanation of DAC types. Some may not agree with your simplification but it certainly helped me.
  
 I recently began looking at R2R DACs but, until your posts, had difficulty deciphering Multibit vs Ladder. I wasn't (yet) reading every detail on the subject though since it usually comes down to how good a DAC actually sounds in person.


----------



## joseph69

macedonianhero said:


> Right now it's USB, but there is a Singxer SU-1 coming in for the review as well. That said, I'm usually a minimalist when it comes to audio and prefer less things in the audio path that could add colouration. But my mind is certainly open to being changed with evidence.
> 
> Tonight I'm using the optical input (playing some of my favourite CDs) and I'm really enjoying this DAC! Next up will be back to USB audio (most likely DSD recordings).


 
 I found no sound quality issues with either the USB/toslink inputs myself.


----------



## rudra

The ARES can't do NOS. But their higher end DAC's Terminator, Venus & Tomahawk can switch between OS/NOS


----------



## Energy

thyname said:


> Much appreciated! Your post is to the point and extremely helpful.
> 
> I agree on the headphones. I went through a bunch,and also listened to a dozen in meet up. I settled on HD 800, and don't regret it. I think I am done with headphones. HD 800 is good for me.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for sharing your gear with us. Is yours just a standard HD800? If so I'd recommend the Super Dupont Resonator (SDR). Personally I would be fine with either the HD800S or HD800SDR as my end game headphones. The HD800? I cannot. It's bright in the treble and upper frequencies which overshadows it's tonality in every other category. This makes bass sound less  than what should be perceived. Not only that, but with the addition of the SDR, the mid range becomes more articulate due to less sibilance being in the way, thus finally giving you an opportunity to focus on it.
  
@lukeap69 trialed the Denafrips Ares over on another forum thread and has posted his positive results. Even though he feels it does not triumph the Holo Audio Spring (probably due to NOS), it is one heck of a steal for $598 (https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-ares-r2r-dac). I would spend the extra money on a Singxer SU-1 to gain further transparency, imaging, separation, resolution, detail, depth, etc. 
  
_Computer USB > Singxer SU-1 > Denafrips Ares (via Coaxial RCA). _
  
 The Singxer SU-1 can easily be had for as little as $350 on Aliexpress. Simply request them for a 110V or 230V depending on where you live. To connect the two you'll need a cable. A quality one. An affordable coaxial cable from Blue Jean Audio comprised of the Belden 1694A (base cable) and Canare RCAP (true 75 ohm connectors) would be perfect for the job. No need for fancy cables as this is to carry digital signal. Expensive cables may even hurt the cable impedance thus inducing even more jitter if you don't buy the right one.
  
 Picking out a DAC is like building a gaming computer. You might end up wanting to save a little more for a computer with better specs, but you'll also have to take notes on what games you'll ACTUALLY be playing on it.
  
 The Ares isn't a 24 bit DAC if I recall, but their higher ended products are. The Holo Audio Spring has a true 24 bit R2R Ladder thus is 24 bit. Usually the more bits and the way those converters are placed (isolation) and processed will help with linearity. This is why in some higher ended DAC's there are multiple modules or chipsets for dual differential mode. For example, think of it like how in some amplifiers there multiple boards that creates hardware balancing leading to a quieter noise floor.
  
 Personally I have nothing but CD quality 16/44.1kHz so it doesn't concern me much. The Ares's 20 bit R2R Ladder may or may not pertain well to you in this instance. Your mileage may vary. 
  


gr8soundz said:


> Thanks for posting such a simple explanation of DAC types. Some may not agree with your simplification but it certainly helped me.
> 
> I recently began looking at R2R DACs but, until your posts, had difficulty deciphering Multibit vs Ladder. I wasn't (yet) reading every detail on the subject though since it usually comes down to how good a DAC actually sounds in person.


 
  
 Thank you. :] I can't wait for you to get your hands on a R2R yourself. It's Surreal.
  


joseph69 said:


> I found no sound quality issues with either the USB/toslink inputs myself.


 
  
 USB/ToSlink sounded very similar to me on the Spring. I didn't really notice much a difference.
  
 I2S > AES/EBU > S/PDIF > USB/ToSlink


----------



## gr8soundz

energy said:


> I can't wait for you to get your hands on a R2R yourself. It's Surreal.


 
  
 Just so happens I ordered a Soekris dac1101 two days ago and should have it by next week.
  
 I'd sold my multibit hybrid iDSD Micro last year and was determined to finally get a full R2R dac.
  
 The Holo Spring is out of my price range so I'd narrowed it down to the Mimby or Soekris. Chose the Soekris for it's transportable size and DSD capability.


----------



## bballas

jays audio soekris dac 5980rmb


----------



## slex

energy said:


> Thank you for sharing your gear with us. Is yours just a standard HD800? If so I'd recommend the Super Dupont Resonator (SDR). Personally I would be fine with either the HD800S or HD800SDR as my end game headphones. The HD800? I cannot. It's bright in the treble and upper frequencies which overshadows it's tonality in every other category. This makes bass sound less  than what should be perceived. Not only that, but with the addition of the SDR, the mid range becomes more articulate due to less sibilance being in the way, thus finally giving you an opportunity to focus on it.
> 
> @lukeap69
> trialed the Denafrips Ares over on another forum thread and has posted his positive results. Even though he feels it does not triumph the Holo Audio Spring (probably due to NOS), it is one heck of a steal for $598 (https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-ares-r2r-dac). I would spend the extra money on a Singxer SU-1 to gain further transparency, imaging, separation, resolution, detail, depth, etc.
> ...




Energy ,the Singxer F1 should be sufficiently adequate for Ares.


----------



## thyname

energy said:


> Thank you for sharing your gear with us. Is yours just a standard HD800? If so I'd recommend the Super Dupont Resonator (SDR). Personally I would be fine with either the HD800S or HD800SDR as my end game headphones. The HD800? I cannot. It's bright in the treble and upper frequencies which overshadows it's tonality in every other category. This makes bass sound less  than what should be perceived. Not only that, but with the addition of the SDR, the mid range becomes more articulate due to less sibilance being in the way, thus finally giving you an opportunity to focus on it.
> 
> @lukeap69
> trialed the Denafrips Ares over on another forum thread and has posted his positive results. Even though he feels it does not triumph the Holo Audio Spring (probably due to NOS), it is one heck of a steal for $598 (https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-ares-r2r-dac). I would spend the extra money on a Singxer SU-1 to gain further transparency, imaging, separation, resolution, detail, depth, etc.
> ...




Thanks again.

My HD 800 is indeed with SDR mod. I bought it already modded from another fellow head-fier.

I do not use computer to "feed" my DAC. I use a Sonore microrendu via Roon. Server with Roon Core to microrendu to DAC via USB.


----------



## Energy

thyname said:


> Thanks again.
> 
> My HD 800 is indeed with SDR mod. I bought it already modded from another fellow head-fier.
> 
> I do not use computer to "feed" my DAC. I use a Sonore microrendu via Roon. Server with Roon Core to microrendu to DAC via USB.




That's great. It should be galvanically isolated then. You're all set 

Speaking of galvanic isolation and further improving the USB port. Does anyone use the Intona USB Isolator even with a Singer SU-1?

I know the the Singxer SU-1 already has isolation of its own with high precision clocks, but would there be any benefits in adding the Intona USB Isolator?

I use a laptop, and before this, a gaming computer with 9 fans (noisy). Just seeing if I can get as much transparency as I can and fully avoid any contaminants from the USB line. A used Intona Isolator wouldn't be so pricy..


----------



## rudra

you may want to look into the ifi USB3.0.  Someone in Computer Audiophile compared the regen, intona, and few others. You can read them  here


----------



## MacedonianHero

t bone said:


> I wasn't all that impressed with USB input's performance.  I think you'll get better results from your optical source.  I feel that the Holo's USB implementation leaves something on the table.
> 
> You and I both evaluated the Benchmark DAC3.  My sense was that the Benchmark's USB section was tip-top and able to cope with a less-than-perfect USB signal from my laptop.  The Spring didn't handle the same USB signal with the grace of the Benchmark.  I am eager to hear your thoughts on this topic.
> 
> I agree with your testing methodology about keeping things simple as possible.


 
  
 I think the Benchmark USB implementation is really good, but I'm finding this DAC's USB implementation really good as well too. I do have a Singxer SU-1 coming in to try out so we'll see how that goes.
  
 FWIW, tonight is some Tidal Master (88.2kHz) music (Ed Sheeran's new album) and I'm loving what I'm hearing...competes very well with the Benchmark DAC3 HGC to my ears. Different though with a Delta Sigma DAC like the Benchmark and this R2R NOS DAC, but both are very impressive through USB.


----------



## T Bone

energy said:


> Does anyone use the Intona USB Isolator even with a Singer SU-1?
> I know the the Singxer SU-1 already has isolation of its own with high precision clocks, but would there be any benefits in adding the Intona USB Isolator?


 
  
 I use a laptop as my source and had very poor results from the USB input alone.  I experimented with an Intona in/out of the signal path.
 I wrote a post here that you might find interesting.  ....or PM with any specific questions.


----------



## Tboooe

So my Spring L3 has about 200 hours on it now and I absolutely love it!  Compared to my previous DAC the Spring sounds so much more organic and relaxed.  I am not really a fan of Diana Krall but through the Spring her smoky voice sounds just so real and inviting.  Its so easy to get drawn into the music because it just sounds right.  I am not sure if its because of the use of R2R, the overall implementation of the DAC, or both but the Spring to me seems to have such a nicely balanced sound, being both detailed and relaxed sounding in just the right proportions.  Needless to say I will be keeping the Spring for a while!


----------



## T Bone

tboooe said:


> I am not really a fan of Diana Krall but through the Spring her smoky voice sounds just so real and inviting.  Its so easy to get drawn into the music because it just sounds right.


 
 I really enjoy her "Wallflower" album and her Nat King Cole tribute album, "All For You".
  
 I've been a big "Doug MacLeod" kick lately.  I love acoustic blues.  With the Spring DAC and good headphones, that natural "simplicity" of guitar, foot stomps and hand claps really shines.  It' a stripped down sound, but the detail is exquisite.


----------



## MacedonianHero

t bone said:


> I use a laptop as my source and had very poor results from the USB input alone.  I experimented with an Intona in/out of the signal path.
> I wrote a post here that you might find interesting.  ....or PM with any specific questions.


 
  
 Could be a really dirty source from your laptop? I've had some with really bad dynamics and hum with some of my laptops, who knows? From my iMac, the USB on this DAC is outstanding.


----------



## T Bone

macedonianhero said:


> Could be a really dirty source from your laptop? I've had some with really bad dynamics and hum with some of my laptops, who knows?


 
 Absolutely.  I pointed to that in my review as well.
 For me, the telling point was how two different DACs dealt with the USB signal from the same laptop.  The Benchmark was awesome out of the box.  Whereas I needed to massage the USB signal to get the most out of the Holo.  
 There's a reason so many Holo owners also seem to buy Singxer SU-1's 

 I am glad to hear that you're satisfied with the USB interface.  I am very much looking forward to reading your review - I've read many of yours.


----------



## Tboooe

Guys, what is the point of standby on the Spring?  When I put the Spring into standby I notice maybe a 1w difference in power consumption.  Given this tiny difference, is there any other benefit to Standby?


----------



## T Bone

tboooe said:


> Guys, what is the point of standby on the Spring?


 
 One of the things it does is it keeps the USB port "powered up" so that your computer doesn't detect a USB disconnect event.


----------



## Tboooe

t bone said:


> One of the things it does is it keeps the USB port "powered up" so that your computer doesn't detect a USB disconnect event.


 
 Thank you...since there is so little difference in power consumption a user should just leave it fully powered on and not bother having to remember to put it into and take it out of standby.  This is especially important for me because I have the display completely turned off and there is no other indicator of what mode its in.


----------



## Energy

Thanks for the reply T Bone. I'm unsure currently if adding so many linked parts would be a good thing for the digital signal.
  
 The galvanic isolation of the Intona is no doubt better than that of the Singxer SU-1. I wish I could bypass the Singxer's. I don't feel incorporating two different galvanic isolation devices in series would be too beneficial. Seems like the two independent designs may flaw one another in the process somehow when it comes to spread spectrum. Being output a certain way by the Intona and having it revised by the Singxer in a way that might not be as good, or in this case, beneficial.
  
 Another improvement I can see myself making is bettering the 5V rail of the Singxer SU-1. Cheap _(but highly regarded)_ DIY linear power supplies like AMB Laboratories Sigma 11 _(σ11) _or any LPS for that matter that will provide low power noise in the single digits _(μV)_. They all use large toroidal transformers so another chassis is required and the removal of the IEC power inlet of the Singxer SU-1 is needed for the power cable to enter.
  
 I knew i shouldn't have sold my iFi iUSB... I would totally have removed the Singxer's power supply PCB and replaced it with the internal board within the iFi iUSB. Connect it's 5V USB output to the mainboard, and bam! 0.1μV of noise. Not too sure if a better power supply will warrant any sound improvements for this unit, although I have seen some people doing this on other forums and hearing good from their experiments.
  
 Just food for thought. I will give it a shot whenever I have a chance. I still think my idea with the iFi iUSB is gold. Maybe I can find a used Intona Isolator. If it gave you an improvement T Bone, then I believe I should give it a chance. But the question is, do you feel the improvement the Intona Isolator gave was worth an additional $250?


----------



## T Bone

tboooe said:


> a user should just leave it fully powered on and not bother having to remember to put it into and take it out of standby.  This is especially important for me because I have the display completely turned off and there is no other indicator of what mode its in.


 
 I'm with you.  I can not physically reach the power switch in the location where my spring sits.  It's on a bookshelf in my office.
 I leave the unit powered on 24/7 and just use the standby mode when not in use.   With the display completely dimmed there's no indication the unit is powered on.  
 It would be nice if there was a power on LED and/or standby indicator on the front panel.


----------



## T Bone

energy said:


> Thanks for the reply T Bone. I'm unsure currently if adding so many linked parts would be a good thing for the digital signal.
> 
> The galvanic isolation of the Intona is no doubt better than that of the Singxer SU-1. I wish I could bypass the Singxer's. I don't feel incorporating two different galvanic isolation devices in series would be too beneficial. Seems like the two independent designs may flaw one another in the process somehow when it comes to spread spectrum. Being output a certain way by the Intona and having it revised by the Singxer in a way that might not be as good, or in this case, beneficial.


 
 I agree.  I'm not a fan of having two devices "daisy chained" together.  If I could only have one device, it would be the Singxer SU-1.  
 I would break out my AMEX card for the illegitimate love child of a Singxer & Intona drunken romp.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   That would be the best of both worlds!
  


energy said:


> Another improvement I can see myself making is bettering the 5V rail of the Singxer SU-1.


 
  
 It looks like @bimmer100 is already on it.  He's got a Singxer SU-1 with a modded power supply that boasts 3.uV output noise.
Check it out here
  


energy said:


> But the question is, do you feel the improvement the Intona Isolator gave was worth an additional $250?


 
 Are there benefits of daisy chaining an Intona/Singxer?  It made a difference with my laptop.  Did it make $250 difference.  "_meh_"  
  
 If you can pick up a used Intona give it a try.  See if it makes a significant differences in your rig for the $$.


----------



## Tboooe

@T Bone @Energy I am planning on doing a few things that may improve the SU-1.  I will be purchasing an Upton Audio LPS-1 and using it to provide clean 5v directly to the SU-1 as well as the USB power.  I am hopeful this will improve things.


----------



## Energy

t bone said:


> I agree.  I'm not a fan of having two devices "daisy chained" together.  If I could only have one device, it would be the Singxer SU-1.
> I would break out my AMEX card for the illegitimate love child of a Singxer & Intona drunken romp.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agreed. I'd buy a "Sintoxerna" in a heartbeat. Top notch galvanic isolation and femto clocks. 
  
 Thanks for the link but I don't believe that's the type of modification that will offer significant improvements let alone an improvement at all.
 Seems more tailored for boutique parts than anything. The same power supply board is used. German WIMA film capacitors are used over the generic Chinese ones. *(+1)* Japanese Panasonic Fine Gold (FG) replace FC which wouldn't be ideal, as FG works better in analog circuit. *(-1)* The stock FC should be better rated... If one were to improve these capacitors, Panasonic FR should have been chosen for low ESR and ripple current. Not trying to bash ones product, I just don't see where this could help.
  
 I'm going to take a wild guess that no real changes were made to the power supply and it already outputs around 3μV noise.
  
 If this were the case, I think I'm going to dismiss my experimentation with the power supply upgrade. I am doubtful that I will hear 0.1μV vs 3μV of noise. Anything heard would fall more on the line of placebo.
  
@Tboooe - Now that's something I really want to see. Improving the power supply I can care less at the moment given what i wrote earlier, but providing a cleaner 5V for the USB power input should be beneficial. Like with how the Intona Isolator receives power from the USB input for it to work, the Singxer SU-1 looks like it also use the voltage from the USB input. The Intona receives 500mA of current from the USB 2.0 connection and spits out 300mA at the output so it still works in series with the Singxer SU-1 as I'm sure the Singer SU-1 use less than 200mA worth of current. After all, the Intona Isolator is larger with dual FPGA's. My guess is the Intona device improve further on galvanic isolation and also provides the Singxer-SU1's USB input with a cleaner power supply from it's built in internal linear power rails. I can understand why the addition of the Intona Isolator would be a slight improvement now, based on T bone's hearing impressions.


----------



## inthere

What is the optimal burn in time for the Spring?


----------



## Tboooe

inthere said:


> What is the optimal burn in time for the Spring?




Mine really sounded great after 100 hours.


----------



## Superdad

energy said:


> .... Like with how the Intona Isolator receives power from the USB input for it to work, the Singxer SU-1 looks like it also use the voltage from the USB input. The Intona receives 500mA of current from the USB 2.0 connection and spits out 300mA at the output so it still works in series with the Singxer SU-1 as I'm sure the Singer SU-1 use less than 200mA worth of current. After all, the Intona Isolator is larger with dual FPGA's. My guess is the Intona device improve further on galvanic isolation and also provides the Singxer-SU1's USB input with a cleaner power supply from it's built in internal linear power rails. I can understand why the addition of the Intona Isolator would be a slight improvement now, based on T bone's hearing impressions.


 
  
Sorry, that is incorrect. *No **DAC** provides VBUS power to an upstream connected device.* Both sides of the Intona's single board are powered via the VBUS from the computer.

In the below photo you can see the Coilcraft transformer sitting at the bottom, across the moat. This is how they transfer VBUS power across without loosing the galvanic isolation. It is also why their VBUS power (when connected to a standard 500mA limited computer USB host port) is limited to 300mA.  
(Sadly, they also place the one clock--which is used for both FPGAs--on the upstream "dirty" side. And then the Silicon Labs digital isolators use add jitter. Hopefully they do some sort of further rechecking in the downstream FPGA, but it must still be based on the clock coming from the upstream side through the isolators.)

Don't get me wrong, the Intona is effective as a galvanic isolator (I've had one for over a year). But it sure sounds a lot better with a REGEN (powered by an LPS-1 so as not to defeat the isolation) after it.  





  
*The benefit of USB isolation and reclocking is separate from the improvement of USB 5VBUS.*  Improved USB signal integrity (as see in an eye-pattern) and impedance match are of benefit because it results in the USB input PHY of the DAC (or DDC) generating less of its own packet-data noise and ground-plane noise--pernicious stuff that often sails right on through the DAC or DDC's own digital isolators, resulting in perturbation of the master audio clock--thus adding jitter which can be audible.
  
 There are multiple factors at play in digital audio chains.  Clarity comes from not conflating them into one pile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 By the way, I am enjoying my Holo Spring Level 3 more each week.  And Tim promised to ship me an SU-1 (in trade for the second UltraCap LPS-1 he recently bought) as soon as he has stock again.  I am anxious to use the I2S link between them.  And yes, I'll quite likely mod it to run from the 100% leakage-current-blocking LPS-1.  But I bet @Tboooe will beat me to it on that!
  
 Best,
 --Alex C.


----------



## Energy

I never said they received power from the DAC. How would that be possible to begin with. It's like going backwards.
  
 I said USB 2.0 Input from the computer. 500mA for 2.0 specification and roughly 900mA for USB 3.0.


----------



## MacedonianHero

t bone said:


> Absolutely.  I pointed to that in my review as well.
> For me, the telling point was how two different DACs dealt with the USB signal from the same laptop.  The Benchmark was awesome out of the box.  Whereas I needed to massage the USB signal to get the most out of the Holo.
> There's a reason so many Holo owners also seem to buy Singxer SU-1's
> 
> I am glad to hear that you're satisfied with the USB interface.  I am very much looking forward to reading your review - I've read many of yours.


 
  
 Sorry I missed that part in your review. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 On a side note, a few years ago I had just bought a new HP laptop and my excitement soon ended when I hooked up my DAC to it...just blah! Got a buddy down the street to lend me his DAC (PWD2) and still blah....so my wife got a brand new HP laptop. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I picked up an iMac and haven't looked back. The kid at Bestbuy didn't have a clue when I mentioned my first Apple product was the IIc....then he googled it and thought, wow, this guy is old!


----------



## T Bone

macedonianhero said:


> The kid at Bestbuy didn't have a clue when I mentioned my first Apple product was the IIc....then he googled it and thought, wow, this guy is old!


 
 LoL - and just this morning I was telling my fiance that I wish I still had my Apple II*e *
 It would be worth a small fortune today!
 Because I'm boarding on geezordom, I will disclose that my first PC was actually a TRS-80 Model III from RadioShack - with a cassette deck for storing programs.  ...yeah I'm an aging geek.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 At least I wasn't worried about USB ports back in the day!


----------



## MacedonianHero

t bone said:


> LoL - and just this morning I was telling my fiance that I wish I still had my Apple II*e *
> It would be worth a small fortune today!
> Because I'm boarding on geezordom, I will disclose that my first PC was actually a TRS-80 Model III from RadioShack - with a cassette deck for storing programs.  ...yeah I'm an aging geek.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol, I did also own the TRS-80 just before the IIc...still remember fast forwarding to get to the next program on the cassette tap. The good olde days!


----------



## ericr

IBM PC all the way (with dual floppies and 256kb of ram)!


----------



## T Bone

ericr said:


> IBM PC all the way (with dual floppies and 256kb of ram)!




So you were a rich kid then?


----------



## TimeLord

t bone said:


> So you were a rich kid then?




Ha! I guess compared to the Trash 80...


----------



## Energy

Checking out the Singxer SU-1.

I'm going to at least replace the LED's on mine. I can't stand blue.




Other than improving the cable and film capacitors, I can't see much reason to do anything else.

Been listening to AES/EBU vs I2S on the Holo Audio Spring and can't tell the difference through my studio monitors. On headphones however, being closer in, there's a little more depth and width to the sound stage. The clarity is a hair better. Instrument edges are more defined and separated. Female vocal slightly more natural and male vocal sound less thumpy.




red at long last.


----------



## ericr

t bone said:


> So you were a rich kid then?




Investing in my new found career!


----------



## inthere

energy said:


> Checking out the Singxer SU-1.
> 
> 
> Been listening to AES/EBU vs I2S on the Holo Audio Spring and can't tell the difference through my studio monitors. On headphones however, being closer in, there's more more depth and width to the sound stage. The clarity is a hair better. Instrument edged more aligned and separated. Female vocal slightly more natural and male vocal sound less fuzzy.


 
  
  Give it a bit of time. I wasn't excited about my Singxer at first either, then after about 3 weeks things really took off. I


----------



## T Bone

energy said:


> I'm going to at least replace the LED's on mine. I can't stand blue.


 
 I like the blue!  ...but to each his own.  Are you going to swap capacitors too?
  


energy said:


> Been listening to AES/EBU vs I2S on the Holo Audio Spring and can't tell the difference through my studio monitors. On headphones however, being closer in, there's more more depth and width to the sound stage. The clarity is a hair better. Instrument edged more aligned and separated. Female vocal slightly more natural and male vocal sound less fuzzy.


 
 So which did you prefer?  Was it the I2S that sounded better on the headphones?

 I have an AE$ cable being delivered today.  I will soon be able to make the same comparison.


----------



## Energy

inthere said:


> Give it a bit of time. I wasn't excited about my Singxer at first either, then after about 3 weeks things really took off. I


 
  
 Hehe, I've actually had the Singxer SU-1 for about 4-5 months now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


t bone said:


> I like the blue!  ...but to each his own.  Are you going to swap capacitors too?
> 
> So which did you prefer?  Was it the I2S that sounded better on the headphones?
> 
> I have an AE$ cable being delivered today.  I will soon be able to make the same comparison.


 
  
 I've built too many personalized gaming computers back in the day so the blue, being stock, is overly jarring for me.
  
 Most I'll do is change the following:
 1. Change (4) 0.1uF film capacitors to WIMA MKP2 100V
 2. Upgrade internal power wires to ohno continuous cast quality
 3. Remove power supply LED (on the bottom left corner) - unnecessary noise (barely)
 4. Improve thermal paste between heatsink and LM2940CT voltage regulator.
  
 My personal belief on electrolytic capacitors is that they're more sensitive on analog circuits thus improvements (or differences) are perceived. For digital and power circuits I'd normally decide to use Panasonic FR which is well known for it's compact size, lowest ESR, high ripple current resistance, and lowest leakage. In the case of the Singxer SU-1's original capacitors, the Panasonic FC, I don't find too many reasons to put in labor to replace these as they are also well known to do exceptionally well on power rails, but if one has the upgrade bug, there's still small room for improvement. I just don't feel like it's worth it and anything heard may fall on the lines of placebo.
  
_Here's in accordiance on which is better._
 Panasonic FR > Panasonic FM > Panasonic FC
  
 I'm only changing out the films because I feel WIMA brand is better for their self healing ability. Films should last at least 1 million hours, but hey, this is audiophile impulse.
  
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
 I2S sounded better than AES when I used a 0.3M-0.5M cable. However when I switched to a longer run cable at around 1.0M-1.5M, the two was closely similar. I2S is suppose to be made for short distance PCB runs, and wasn't initially made to go no longer than 4 inches (or so I heard) so this made sense. More jitter was induced with a longer cable. Jitter gained that may be equivalent to jitter lost from bypassing the input receiver.
  
 I have a super short 0.15M (1/2 feet) cable from Sewell Silverback S6. Being so short, I literally have to have the Singxer SU-1 sit on the upper back of the Holo Audio Spring for it to be able to reach the two abridging connections. This short length gave me the best sound quality out of any other cables I've tried. For I2S, the shorter the cable the better. This can't be said about BNC or RCA coaxial cables however as too short a distance may cause internal reflections due to the data reaching nano seconds too early thus being reflected. Same issue with longer cables. I read somewhere that 1.5M is optimal for digital coaxial. Cable quality is a thing too. A poorly built cable will deviate more in impedance.
  
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm
  
 Do share your consensus on the AES/EBU cable. I'm making one for myself right now with Silver Sonic D-110, but not sure how long to make it. Don't know if it still suffers from the time domain issues like with RCA/BNC coaxial. Helpful input on this would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## T Bone

I know a lot of us Holo owners also own the SU-1 and have shared a lot of great feedback on the pairing of the SU-1 and the Spring.  For the greater good of the Head-Fi community, I think it's time we host a new thread dedicated to SU-1 experiences.

*Singxer SU-1 Owners Thread*


----------



## MacedonianHero

So after a day with the KTE SU-1 in my setup with the KTE Holo Spring L3 DAC all I can say is wowza! Listening the a 192kps recording of Alexis Cole's "Kiss in the Dark" on Amarra 4 and I am simply gobsmacked with how effortlessly the music just shines through this DAC. Using it in front of my SR-007Mk1 / LL2 setup and these Stax headphones have never sounded better. Soundstaging is huge, detail extraction is quite epic and just a beautiful portrayal of this great album. 
  
 I would be hard pressed to recommend another DAC based what I'm hearing regardless of price point! Reviewing impressive gear like this is always a joy.


----------



## lukeap69

macedonianhero said:


> So after a day with the KTE SU-1 in my setup with the KTE Holo Spring L3 DAC all I can say is wowza! Listening the a 192kps recording of Alexis Cole's "Kiss in the Dark" on Amarra 4 and I am simply gobsmacked with how effortlessly the music just shines through this DAC. Using it in front of my SR-007Mk1 / LL2 setup and these Stax headphones have never sounded better. Soundstaging is huge, detail extraction is quite epic and just a beautiful portrayal of this great album.
> 
> I would be hard pressed to recommend another DAC based what I'm hearing regardless of price point! Reviewing impressive gear like this is always a joy.




Are you buying one?


----------



## MacedonianHero

lukeap69 said:


> Are you buying one?


 
  
 I will address that after the review, let's say it's going to be really hard to let this out of my setup.


----------



## lukeap69

macedonianhero said:


> I will address that after the review, let's say it's going to be really hard to let this out of my setup.




I am looking forward to your review.


----------



## T Bone

macedonianhero said:


> So after a day with the KTE SU-1 in my setup with the KTE Holo Spring L3 DAC all I can say is wowza!
> _...snip..._
> Soundstaging is huge, detail extraction is quite epic and just a beautiful portrayal of this great album.
> 
> I would be hard pressed to recommend another DAC based what I'm hearing regardless of price point! Reviewing impressive gear like this is always a joy.


 
 I am glad to hear that you're enjoying the Spring / SU-1 combo.
 Do you have any thoughts on how much the SU-1 adds to / improves the "out of the box" performance of the Spring.


----------



## MacedonianHero

t bone said:


> I am glad to hear that you're enjoying the Spring / SU-1 combo.
> Do you have any thoughts on how much the SU-1 adds to / improves the "out of the box" performance of the Spring.


 
  
 After a few days, I think it refines the USB...smooths things out a tad and improves the sound staging as well. Truly a "holo"graphic experience (excuse the pun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


lukeap69 said:


> I am looking forward to your review.


 
 Thanks! Working on it now.


----------



## TimeLord

macedonianhero said:


> After a few days, I think it refines the USB...smooths things out a tad and improves the sound staging as well. Truly a "holo"graphic experience (excuse the pun  ).
> Thanks! Working on it now.



I'm not sure if you have access to one, but if possible add a Schiit Wyrd to the signal chain. 
Computer USB --> Wyrd USB --> SU-1 I2S --> Spring

I'd like to get your opinion on what you hear. From particularly poor computer USB output, you should hear an improvement.


----------



## T Bone

Michael Lavorgna had some nice words to say about the Holo Spring Level 3 over on AudioStream.com
 Read it here: http://www.audiostream.com/content/holo-audio-spring-dac-level-3-kitsune-tuned-edition


----------



## lukeap69

Yeah, really nice words.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

*Anyone looking to upgrade their level 1 to a level 3?* I'm willing to downgrade for slightly less than the cost differences between a lvl 1 and my lvl3.


----------



## TimeLord

t bone said:


> Michael Lavorgna had some nice words to say about the Holo Spring Level 3 over on AudioStream.com
> Read it here: http://www.audiostream.com/content/holo-audio-spring-dac-level-3-kitsune-tuned-edition




That's some fine company to be amongst.


----------



## MacedonianHero

timelord said:


> I'm not sure if you have access to one, but if possible add a Schiit Wyrd to the signal chain.
> Computer USB --> Wyrd USB --> SU-1 I2S --> Spring
> 
> I'd like to get your opinion on what you hear. From particularly poor computer USB output, you should hear an improvement.


 
  
 I did own the Wyrd USB a while...sold it after a few months as I personally found it had a minimal affect on the sound. The KTE SU-1 was significant. The USB on the KTE Spring DAC Level 3 is very good alone, but the KTE SU-1 really kicked things up to a new level. I was a bit skeptical at first, but after a week with it, I am very impressed.


----------



## remoss

soundsgoodtome said:


> *Anyone looking to upgrade their level 1 to a level 3?* I'm willing to downgrade for slightly less than the cost differences between a lvl 1 and my lvl3.


 

 Are you willing to share the reason for the downgrade?


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I've always been keen on film caps over liquid and what it does in sound. I can always buy a nice fuse as well. Transformers and wiring... well I'm okay with 99% copper vs silver.

I undestand that Tim doesn't make much on upgraded parts to what he sells the lvl 3 so imo value is still great for those that want the last 5-8% in sound. I choose to chase more in terms of different speakers and headphones at this point.


----------



## ZGojira

- Denafrips dac-68
 - Holo Spring (from Wildism Audio HK, Jensen Caps + Silver Transformer)
  
 Impressions coming soon


----------



## T Bone

macedonianhero said:


> I did own the Wyrd USB a while...sold it after a few months as I personally found it had a minimal affect on the sound. The KTE SU-1 was significant. The USB on the KTE Spring DAC Level 3 is very good alone, but the KTE SU-1 really kicked things up to a new level. I was a bit skeptical at first, but after a week with it, I am very impressed.


 
 I'll second that.
 I had a Wyrd and it didn't do a lot for my system.  I got better audible results with the Intona USB Isolator.  I also employed a Singxer SU-1 and it does a much better job than the Wyrd.  ...both are pricier, but make real differences.


----------



## thyname

This would work well for any clean up issues with USB:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/840436/uptone-audio-usb-regen


----------



## MacedonianHero

t bone said:


> I'll second that.
> I had a Wyrd and it didn't do a lot for my system.  I got better audible results with the Intona USB Isolator.  I also employed a Singxer SU-1 and it does a much better job than the Wyrd.  ...both are pricier, but make real differences.


 
  
 Glad we hear things the same. I still need to try the Intona USB Isolator though.


----------



## MarkR7

So is there a prevailing "favorite" for the Spring DAC (KTE) in terms of the USB interface? Is the SU-1 preferred over the Intona, or vice versa? From what I've read, the i2s would be a better input, therefore an SU-1 would be preferable?


----------



## T Bone

markr7 said:


> So is there a prevailing "favorite" for the Spring DAC (KTE) in terms of the USB interface? Is the SU-1 preferred over the Intona, or vice versa? From what I've read, the i2s would be a better input, therefore an SU-1 would be preferable?


 
 I have both.  The SU-1 and I2S connection is the way to go.


----------



## rafabro

energy said:


> Hehe, I've actually had the Singxer SU-1 for about 4-5 months now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Your sure about 0.1uF? Isn't it 1uF?..


----------



## mscott58

t bone said:


> I have both.  The SU-1 and I2S connection is the way to go.



 


100% agree. I have a Revive feeding my SU-1 into the L3 Spring, but not sure if the Revive does anything. Already had it in the pathway, so didn't bother changing it out. Cheers


----------



## Energy

rafabro said:


> Your sure about 0.1uF? Isn't it 1uF?..




I mean, I did open up my unit and personally checked it myself. They're film capacitors. You can replace with a slightly higher capacitance, higher voltage, or lower tolerance if you wanted to.


----------



## defbear

I have one of the first Level 3 Holo DAC's. I use the Intona USB cleaner in front of the Singxer SU-1. Then the SU-1 to the Holo DAC via I2S. The Singxer makes an audible improvement I've discussed earlier. The Intona cleans up the last tiny bit of digital 'haze'. I bought the Regen first and later the Intona. I didn't find much improvement with various setups with the Regen. The Intona was worthwhile everywhere I inserted it. I'm keeping the Regen as sooo many people have found an improvement with it. Perhaps the SU-1 / Holo DAC combo is too hard to improve on. Silver vs Copper. I'm pretty sure Copper is Just Fine! But this is my End Game DAC and I wanted to max it out.


----------



## T Bone

energy said:


> Been listening to AES/EBU vs I2S on the Holo Audio Spring and can't tell the difference through my studio monitors. On headphones however, being closer in, there's a little more depth and width to the sound stage. The clarity is a hair better. Instrument edges are more defined and separated. Female vocal slightly more natural and male vocal sound less thumpy.


 
  
 I finally had a chance to do a little critical listening and compare the AES/EBU to the HDMI I2S input.  
 The USB output of my laptop is connected to an Singxer SU-1 bridge.  I have both the AES and I2S outputs of the Singxer connected to the Spring so that I can quickly cycle through the inputs and compare them.  (_This would be a lot easier if the Spring had discreet buttons for each input instead of cycling through all the inputs to get to the one you want_)
  
 I queued up the Dire Straits "Your Latest Trick" in DSD64 format.  The differences between the two inputs are subtle, but present.  On this particular track, I felt that the cymbals had a little more detail and decayed a little more realistically.  There's a little more air in the I2S input.  
  
 I heard similar improvements in "The Man's Too Strong" - especially in the detail of the acoustic guitar.  It was present in both the pluck of the strings and the resonance of the guitar body. 
  
 The more often that I switched back and forth I was able to quickly pick up on the small differences. 
  
 If I had to postulate a reason for the difference, it would be that the AES/EBU signal takes a trip through the Spring's AK4118A receiver chip whereas the I2S signal bypasses it and pretty much goes straight to the R2R circuit.


----------



## bluesaint

So the USB input for this is using USB3.0?  I see the blue input.  So this is using USB3.0 cable?


----------



## ufospls2

Hey guys,
  
 I am still on the DAC hunt, and probably will continue to be on it for a good while. There are so many options, I'm just not sure which way to go. I don't need a headphone out, as I am set amp wise. I have quite a few I am considering, but the Mytek Brooklyn is one of them. Has anyone heard it and compared it to the Spring DAC? I have searched the thread but not come up with much. One thing that is attractive is that I can get a Brooklyn from my local shop. I have heard it and thought it sounded good. I have not, and most likely will not, have a chance to hear the Spring DAC. It would be a blind purchase. I am looking for something with great clarity, but not a harsh bite. I know sabre implementations can have that bite, or glare to them. The Brooklyn and Spring are also at similar price points, which is why I ask about them together. The other options I'm considering are a bit more expensive. I really don't know which way to go. Any help or experiences would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## MacedonianHero

t bone said:


> I have both.  The SU-1 and I2S connection is the way to go.


 
  
 Agreed! I was impressed with the USB with the L3 KTE Spring DAC, but the KTE SU-1 I'm using for the review has really brought things to a whole new level. I am thoroughly impressed and can't find myself going back to straight USB again. Again, not to say that the galvanically isolated USB isn't excellent, just that feeding the signal directly into the R2R circuit is the better option to my ears.
  


ufospls2 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am still on the DAC hunt, and probably will continue to be on it for a good while. There are so many options, I'm just not sure which way to go. I don't need a headphone out, as I am set amp wise. I have quite a few I am considering, but the Mytek Brooklyn is one of them. Has anyone heard it and compared it to the Spring DAC? I have searched the thread but not come up with much. One thing that is attractive is that I can get a Brooklyn from my local shop. I have heard it and thought it sounded good. I have not, and most likely will not, have a chance to hear the Spring DAC. It would be a blind purchase. I am looking for something with great clarity, but not a harsh bite. I know sabre implementations can have that bite, or glare to them. The Brooklyn and Spring are also at similar price points, which is why I ask about them together. The other options I'm considering are a bit more expensive. I really don't know which way to go. Any help or experiences would be appreciated. Thanks!


 
 I like the Brooklyn DAC and it does have a wide array of features/options, but I let's just say it'll be almost impossible for me to let the L3 KTE Spring DAC out of my rig. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've commented on Sabre DACs in other threads and that bite is about poor DAC design and the DAC not taking into account the intersample overs; which can in turn sound "brightish" with an upper mid shout. When properly designed like on the Benchmark DAC2/3 or the Resonessence Labs DACs, then that's not an issue. The new ES9028PRO and ES9038PRO now have 7 built-in interpolation filters built-in to help designers from messing things up. But as mentioned, this DAC is one of the very best I've heard (regardless of price point). Hopefully you can get to hear one as I think for the price point is a steal!


----------



## joseph69

I haven't heard the Brooklyn DAC, but I have the Spring Level 3 KTE and I purchased it blindly. It was one of the best (if not the best) purchases I've ever made for my rig. Period! I don't know which level Spring is comparable in price to the Brooklyn, but those who have heard the different Spring Levels mentioned they heard some differences, but not much between them, so I wouldn't be afraid to buy the Level 1 based on these comments. I've only heard the Level 3, so I'm just passing along what I've read about the Level 1-2.


----------



## ufospls2

macedonianhero said:


> I like the Brooklyn DAC and it does have a wide array of features/options, but I let's just say it'll be almost impossible for me to let the L3 KTE Spring DAC out of my rig.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Man, I wish I could hear one. Everyone seems to love the Spring DAC. Do you find the Spring has really good clarity? I'm still not sure exactly what sound signature I'm looking for in a DAC. I'm pretty sure I don't want warm and syrupy, as my amp is on the warmer side of things and I don't want to go overkill on the warmth and lose detail. I was doing some A/B'ing between my Mojo and GO2A, and I think that the Geek Out actually works better with my amp than the Mojo. Brings a bit more clarity and treble detail to the table. Its because of this that I don't want to rule out a sabre DAC, but as you say, its all about the implementation. There are too many options on the market!


joseph69 said:


> I haven't heard the Brooklyn DAC, but I have the Spring Level 3 KTE and I purchased it blindly. It was one of the best (if not the best) purchases I've ever made for my rig. Period! I don't know which level Spring is comparable in price to the Brooklyn, but those who have heard the different Spring Levels mentioned they heard some differences, but not much between them, so I wouldn't be afraid to buy the Level 1 based on these comments. I've only heard the Level 3, so I'm just passing along what I've read about the Level 1-2.


 
 They are pretty comparable price point wise, so that is why I'm not sure which way to go. I've still got ages before I make a purchase as I want to take my time and make the right choice for my set up.


----------



## joseph69

A while back some of us here had mentioned getting some popping/clicking noise through the Spring while switching between sample rates (myself included and I couldn't stand it.) In my case, I was using a MBP>JRiver via USB. At one point I also had the SU-1 in my chain via i2s with the same issue. I had come to  the conclusion that JRiver software/Spring didn't play well together, but I couldn't recall ever hearing this issue through my Perfectwave DAC-ll???
  
 Lets go back to when I was using the PWD-ll before the Spring. I was using the USB input as well, because I hadn't purchased the Bridge-ll yet, and at the same time, I didn't have any other sample rates besides 44.1. Fast forward to when I purchased the Bridge-ll and started using AoIP. It was then I started to buy Hi-Rez downloads from HDtracks as well, and never had an issue with popping/clicking while switching between sample rates *because* of the AoIP.
  
 Fast forward to when I purchased the Spring. Using the USB input I was having the popping/clicking issue because now I have different sample rates to play with this DAC* (which I didn't have when using the USB with my PWD-ll.)*
  
 Recently I put the microRendu/Uptone LPS-1 in my chain, and using JRiver there is absolutely no popping/clicking whatsoever while switching sample rates. As I mentioned, I used AoIP with my PWD-ll/Bridge-ll which is why I didn't have the issue.
  
 I really enjoy the overall sound quality/black background and consistency in playback with no noise issues while switching sample rates with AoIP. The microRendu/ Uptone LPS-1 has taken everything I enjoyed with my PWD-ll/Bridge-ll using AoIP to an entirely new level with my Spring! This is the second best purchase I've made for my chain…the first being the Spring. Beautiful!


----------



## joseph69

ufospls2 said:


> Man, I wish I could hear one. Everyone seems to love the Spring DAC. Do you find the Spring has really good clarity? I'm still not sure exactly what sound signature I'm looking for in a DAC. I'm pretty sure I don't want warm and syrupy, as my amp is on the warmer side of things and I don't want to go overkill on the warmth and lose detail. I was doing some A/B'ing between my Mojo and GO2A, and I think that the Geek Out actually works better with my amp than the Mojo. Brings a bit more clarity and treble detail to the table. Its because of this that I don't want to rule out a sabre DAC, but as you say, its all about the implementation. There are too many options on the market!
> They are pretty comparable price point wise, so that is why I'm not sure which way to go. I've still got ages before I make a purchase as I want to take my time and make the right choice for my set up.


 

 The Spring has excellent detail/clarity, yet remains smooth and musical without any shrillness. 
 It is definitely not syrupy in any way. Take your time to make the right decision for yourself. I will say this as well…if I needed another DAC tomorrow, I'd buy the spring without hesitation, and I sincerely mean what I'm saying.


----------



## T Bone

ufospls2 said:


> I am still on the DAC hunt  _...snip..._  I am looking for something with great clarity, but not a harsh bite.


 
  
 Quote:


joseph69 said:


> The Spring has excellent detail/clarity, yet remains smooth and musical without any shrillness.
> It is definitely not syrupy in any way. Take your time to make the right decision for yourself. I will say this as well…if I needed another DAC tomorrow, I'd buy the spring without hesitation, and I sincerely mean what I'm saying.


 
@ufospls2- I'll second @joseph69's comments.  The Spring is a very detailed DAC.  The NOS mode feels very natural - no syrup.  
 The Spring really shines when paired with a Singxer SU-1.  The combination takes the already good Spring DAC and bumps the performance up a notch.


----------



## Tboooe

joseph69 said:


> The Spring has excellent detail/clarity, yet remains smooth and musical without any shrillness.
> It is definitely not syrupy in any way. Take your time to make the right decision for yourself. I will say this as well…if I needed another DAC tomorrow, I'd buy the spring without hesitation, and I sincerely mean what I'm saying.


 
 I also purchased the Spring "blind" as well.  I have done this before with other components with mixed results.  However, I am very very happy with the Spring.  @joseph69 description of the Spring mirrors my experience as well.  The Spring is detailed yet smooth sounding.  I am a wannabe tube guy in that I prefer a slightly warmer sound.  The Spring gives me this but at the same time it is detailed.  I know this sounds contradictory but this is what makes the Spring so great to my ears.  I am not sure if this is a reflection of R2R dacs in general but I am very happy.


----------



## ZGojira

zgojira said:


> - Denafrips dac-68
> - Holo Spring (from Wildism Audio HK, Jensen Caps + Silver Transformer)
> 
> Impressions coming soon


 
  
 Impressions posted here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/833690/denafrips-ares-r2r-discrete-ladder-dac-close-up-view/585#post_13364291


----------



## MacedonianHero

ufospls2 said:


> Man, I wish I could hear one. Everyone seems to love the Spring DAC.* Do you find the Spring has really good clarity?* I'm still not sure exactly what sound signature I'm looking for in a DAC. I'm pretty sure I don't want warm and syrupy, as my amp is on the warmer side of things and I don't want to go overkill on the warmth and lose detail. I was doing some A/B'ing between my Mojo and GO2A, and I think that the Geek Out actually works better with my amp than the Mojo. Brings a bit more clarity and treble detail to the table. Its because of this that I don't want to rule out a sabre DAC, but as you say, its all about the implementation. There are too many options on the market!


 
 Stunning clarity and truly impressive sound staging.


----------



## thyname

I finally took the plunge and got myself a used Level 3. Exciting times!

Due to space constraints, I may need to stack the components. Would I be able to stack my Schiit Mjolnir 2 Amp on top of Holo Spring? MJ2 does run a bit hot. Thanks!


----------



## joseph69

thyname said:


> I finally took the plunge and got myself a used Level 3. Exciting times!
> 
> Due to space constraints, I may need to stack the components. Would I be able to stack my Schiit Mjolnir 2 Amp on top of Holo Spring? MJ2 does run a bit hot. Thanks!


 

 Congratulations, you won't be disappointed! As far as stacking the Mjolnir on top of the Spring which does run nice and warrn in "standby" mode, but I wouldn't see it being a problem if you must do this being heat rises.


----------



## thyname

joseph69 said:


> Congratulations, you won't be disappointed! As far as stacking the Mjolnir on top of the Spring which does run nice and warrn in "standby" mode, but I wouldn't see it being a problem if you must do this being heat rises.


 
  
 Thanks!
  
 So, no, it's not advisable?


----------



## joseph69

thyname said:


> Thanks!
> 
> So, no, it's not advisable?


 

 I'm not saying it not advisable, but the Spring runs warm (not hot by any means) so I don't know if you would want all that heat? But then again, the heat from the Mjolnir will rise, so I don't think it would be an issue. The Spring is quite thin, so maybe when you get it you can configure your components a different way if your worried?


----------



## thyname

joseph69 said:


> I'm not saying it not advisable, but the Spring runs warm (not hot by any means) so I don't know if you would want all that heat? But then again, the heat from the Mjolnir will rise, so I don't think it would be an issue. The Spring is quite thin, so maybe when you get it you can configure your components a different way if your worried?


 
 I will have them in a side table on living room. There is light fixture there as well, so there is not enough space to put them side by side (not stacked). Maybe I buy longer connectors, and place the Holo at the bottom of the table, but then, the gorgeous looking Holo would be hidden ....


----------



## joseph69

thyname said:


> I will have them in a side table on living room. There is light fixture there as well, so there is not enough space to put them side by side (not stacked). Maybe I buy longer connectors, and place the Holo at the bottom of the table, but then, the gorgeous looking Holo would be hidden ....


 

 I wouldn't hide it either!
 I think you'll be fine with the Mjolnir on top.


----------



## TimeLord

thyname I hope it's not my fault you got the Spring. :evil:
You're going to love its sound. 

When I first got the Spring I too was thinking of stacking it, with the Liquid Gold. But all that heat coming off of the Gold worked me too much, so I got a small shelf to put on the desk and I can separate the Spring from the Gold and still have them "stacked." It works really well to keep the Spring at its own temperature.


----------



## thyname

timelord said:


> @thyname I hope it's not my fault you got the Spring.


 
 Yes, it is YOUR fault 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Thanks for the advise on stacking them, definitely something that had not crossed my mind. I now have to figure out how to separate them and have them "stacked" at the same time.


----------



## jcn3

thyname said:


> Yes, it is YOUR fault
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 just get some little feet to put a bit of distance -- doesn't have to be fancy. 3/4" or so should be plenty.


----------



## joseph69

thyname said:


> Yes, it is YOUR fault
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 But you're stacking the Mjolnir on top of the Spring…not underneath (you can't obviously) so you should be fine.


----------



## Energy

It's okay if the Mjolnir is stacked over the Spring.

Heat rises so you'd want the hotter equipment on top (the Mjolnir). If you want to go further, buy some rubber feets or something similar to distance out the two vertically.

I had my Beta 22 stacked on top of my Spring when I had it. Works fine as long as you don't get any hum.


----------



## TimeLord

Understanding that heat rises, when I had the LAu stacked on top of the Spring, the Spring's temperature was much higher than it is without the stacking.
  
 Is that heat enough to cause a problem? I don't know, but I wasn't going to find out either.


----------



## mscott58

timelord said:


> Understanding that heat rises, when I had the LAu stacked on top of the Spring, the Spring's temperature was much higher than it is without the stacking.
> 
> Is that heat enough to cause a problem? I don't know, but I wasn't going to find out either.




I have my LAu on top of my Spring L3, but I've lifted the Spring with isolation pods and also have quiet computer fans blowing air from behind just in case. Modern fans that are easily powered using USB are also very quiet, especially on low speed. Never any heat issues, and I leave them on 24/7. Cheers


----------



## mko71

robert mcadam said:


> It sure is but over time you usually get the right answer or the one you are looking for. The internet is the greatest invention. I'm just watching and waiting the Holo is very new but it certainly has upped the stakes in DAC's and other Chinese are producing some interesting Dac's. In terms of pricing if they can get the sound much better its going to be devastating for US and European manufacturers.




Hard to compete with slave labor and currency manipulation.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Well... The markups are more than significant. Do you really think a Metrum Pavane cost half of their msrp to make? Even with r&d costs they're making more than double/triple/quadruple? from parts to finish product.


----------



## bluesaint

Just look at chord Dave for $10k


----------



## MacedonianHero

Well, my review of the Level 3 "KitsuneHIFI tuned" Spring DAC is in for Final Editing and Scheduling. In short...it was a revelation to me on just how good R2R / NOS DACs can sound! When coupled with the KTE SU-1, music from my iMac has never sounded better.
  
 Hopefully my review should be out by mid-late April. Just a final note, this setup has certainly passed the "put your money where your mouth is test" as I am planning on purchasing both units! Tim at KitsuneHIFI has been a pleasure to deal with and anyone looking for a new digital front end, I strongly recommend you look give them a strong consideration!


----------



## gr8soundz

I hear you Mace. Looking forward to the review.
  
 I'm working on a review myself (of the Soekris; might be done in a few more weeks). It oversamples but I too am hearing the difference a full R2R dac is making in my setup.
  
 Maybe someday I can afford to get the Holo Spring as well.


----------



## astrostar59

Anyone know if the Holo Spring DAC used SMPS or has a linear PS on the boards? I can't tell looking at the internals.
  
 Fantasy land, but I would really fancy pulling the Discrete boards out and fitting to a bigger chassis, use a valve regulated PS and nice tube line stage, just to see where it is at. Maybe no point but I would love to know if it can be improved upon and it would be fun trying for sure.
  
 But regardless, the arrival of this DAC has to shake things up a bit, especially in the insane money 20K+ 'end game' DAC territory, which as we have all seen before, in many cases ends up on AGon at a loss......


----------



## inthere

SU-1, GS-X mk2, Liquid Gold, burning in 4 headphones simultaneously!


----------



## ZGojira

inthere said:


> SU-1, GS-X mk2, Liquid Gold, burning in 4 headphones simultaneously!


 

 Very nice gear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I thought it was not recommended to stack the GS-X PSU and unit.
 According to this: https://www.headamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/GS-X-mk2-Manual-for-web.pdf


----------



## inthere

Probably not, but I've always stacked it since day one. I use a fan though


----------



## ZGojira

inthere said:


> Probably not, but I've always stacked it since day one. I use a fan though


 
  
 Any thoughts on the Liquid Gold vs GS-X on the Spring?


----------



## inthere

zgojira said:


> Any thoughts on the Liquid Gold vs GS-X on the Spring?


 
  
 Well, I've been scared of giving my thoughts on the the GS-X thread and the LAu thread so I guess I'll give it here.
  
 I've been hearing on the GS-X thread about a quite noticeable edge in clarity by the GS-X over the LAu, but I don't think it's that noticeable. It's very slight, however, the GS-X is definitely more neutral and vocals seem to pop out at you more; they're more intimate. On the other hand, the LAu sounds a bit more musical, "euphoric" I want to say......the GS-X is somewhat dry by comparison. LAu feels a bit more ambient with a wider soundstage, almost tubey. I haven't been able to make up my mind on which I like better for two months now, so I'm keeping them both.


----------



## ZGojira

inthere said:


> Well, I've been scared of giving my thoughts on the the GS-X thread and the LAu thread so I guess I'll give it here.
> 
> I've been hearing on the GS-X thread about a quite noticeable edge in clarity by the GS-X over the LAu, but I don't think it's that noticeable. It's very slight, however, the GS-X is definitely more neutral and vocals seem to pop out at you more; they're more intimate. On the other hand, the LAu sounds a bit more musical, "euphoric" I want to say......the GS-X is somewhat dry by comparison. LAu feels a bit more ambient with a wider soundstage, almost tubey. I haven't been able to make up my mind on which I like better for two months now, so I'm keeping them both.


 
  
 I just ordered my GS-X a short while ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (no more blue, so I went with silver)
  
 What you mentioned is exactly what I wanted from the GS-X 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait for it to arrive!


----------



## MacedonianHero

zgojira said:


> I just ordered my GS-X a short while ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You should be very impressed. Listening to my GS-X MK2 with the Level 3 Spring DAC and a 192kbps Louis Armstrong...Satchmo has never sounded better!


----------



## inthere

macedonianhero said:


> You should be very impressed. Listening to my GS-X MK2 with the Level 3 Spring DAC and a 192kbps Louis Armstrong...Satchmo has never sounded better!


 
  
 Very hard to imagine a listening setup that's much better personally, I heard Dave and it doesn't impress me more than this combo


----------



## MacedonianHero

inthere said:


> Very hard to imagine a listening setup that's much better personally, I heard Dave and it doesn't impress me more than this combo


 
  
 It is pretty spectacular sounding that's for sure!


----------



## T Bone

Here's something you don't see that often - a Spring running at a 352.8k sampling rate.  I was experimenting with a "DXD" encoded file and thought I'd share a pix.  
 As expected this is only possible over an I2S connection as AES tops out at 192Khz.


----------



## yates7592

And how does it sound?


----------



## T Bone

yates7592 said:


> And how does it sound?


 
 Amazing, naturally!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
 I guess high bit-rates are commonplace for the HQ Player crowd.  I haven't gone down that route yet.  
 Here's *a link to the file*s if you'd like to try it yourself.


----------



## Tboooe

t bone said:


> Here's something you don't see that often - a Spring running at a 352.8k sampling rate.  I was experimenting with a "DXD" encoded file and thought I'd share a pix.
> As expected this is only possible over an I2S connection as AES tops out at 192Khz.


 
 Man!  That display on the Holo is HUUUUUGE.  I can see it all the way from Socal!   I have my display turned off so I dont even know what sample rate is playing most of the time.  Ignorance is bliss right?


----------



## Superdad

t bone said:


> Here's something you don't see that often - a Spring running at a 352.8k sampling rate.  I was experimenting with a "DXD" encoded file and thought I'd share a pix.
> As expected this is only possible over an I2S connection as AES tops out at 192Khz.


 
  
  
 It does both 352.8 and 384 fine via USB as well.  But certainly sounds better with the SU-1 via I2S (due in large part to the superior clocks).


----------



## bluesaint

superdad said:


> It does both 352.8 and 384 fine via USB as well.  But certainly sounds better with the SU-1 via I2S (due in large part to the superior clocks).


 
 btw, i'm assuming all the supposed USB performance issues mentioned can be fixed with the likes of IFI iUSB3.0 or Any other USB decrypiefier of sorts reclocks/regen the signal while filtering out any USB noise from the PC ports right?  Or is there a fundamental issue with the holo usb input?


----------



## Superdad

bluesaint said:


> btw, i'm assuming all the supposed USB performance issues mentioned can be fixed with the likes of IFI iUSB3.0 or Any other USB decrypiefier of sorts reclocks/regen the signal while filtering out any USB noise from the PC ports right?  Or is there a fundamental issue with the holo usb input?


 

 Hi:
 Leaving aside that you referred only to my competitors product and not our original which coined the term REGEN. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Also leaving said that USB "noise" (other than on the VBUS) does not really exist and that the mechanism by which hub-chip-based "regenerators" improve SQ is by improving signal integrity (as see on a eye-pattern) and impedance match--thereby permitting the DAC's own USB input PHY to generate less ground plane and packet data noise inside the DAC (the sort of stuff that sails past even internal isolators and modulates the DAC master clock).
  
 The answer to you question is yes and no.  Sorry.
  
 What I mean is:  
 While my personal Holo Spring Level 3 sounds great via USB--with a pre-production unit of our new ISO REGEN in front of it--it still sounds better driven by the IS2 output of the SU-1 (also with my ISO REGEN proto in front).
*I attribute that to the world-class Crystek CCHD-575 audio master clocks in the SU-1, which--and this important here--fully become the master clocks for the Spring ONLY when the I2S connection is used.*  (For AES/SPDIF, these same clocks get embedded into the data and then the DAC uses PLLs to extract and reclock that--and I think its cheap clocks get back in the action with that connection.)
  
 So while the Spring's USB>I2S input board  is neither terrible nor special (just pretty standard XMOS), the SU-1 is a good piece with fantastic clocks--which are best utilized via the I2S connection.
  
 Hope that makes sense.


----------



## bluesaint

superdad said:


> Hi:
> Leaving aside that you referred only to my competitors product and not our original which coined the term REGEN.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks that makes perfect sense, and I guess is why a few folks mentioned the clocks in the Holo is being targeted to be upgraded in apr/may on this thread.
  
 ps. I've no idea what product(s) you represent, was simply quoting you based on your mentioning of USB performance, and because I own a IFI usb3 and had a schiit wyrd in the past.  So by no means to avoid mentioning ur products on purpose, but its because I simply don't know it.


----------



## mscott58

superdad said:


> Hi:
> Leaving aside that you referred only to my competitors product and not our original which coined the term REGEN.
> 
> 
> ...



 


Awesome explanation! 

Have you any thoughts on the upgraded KTE version of the SU-1? 

Cheers


----------



## MacedonianHero

t bone said:


> Here's something you don't see that often - a Spring running at a 352.8k sampling rate.  I was experimenting with a "DXD" encoded file and thought I'd share a pix.
> As expected this is only possible over an I2S connection as AES tops out at 192Khz.


 
 Hey, did you break into my place and listen to my rig while I was off at work today? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Throw in a KTE SU-1 in that photo and move the black GS-X Mk2 up on a rack over the L3 Spring DAC and we've got identical setups (well except for a Cavalli LL2 for my stat headphones just to the right). Very impressive setup! Listening to Chesky's "Jazz Side of the Moon" on DSD and loving what I'm hearing. This DAC is not only physically BIG, but sounds even BIGGER! Incredible detail, texturing and sound-staging!
  
 Mine has vinyl artwork per the photo here with the impressive innards of DAC (option is available from KitsuneHIFI...I love the way it looks):

  
 My GS-X Mk2 is just above (my CDP is just below) and my DAC-3HGC is right in the shot too (moving this to my work setup soon).


----------



## T Bone

macedonianhero said:


> Hey, did you break into my place and listen to my rig while I was off at work today?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice setup!  I like the vinyl decals that Tim had made up - they're unique.  
  
 I listened to the preview of Dark Side of Jazz at Chesky's site.  ...intriguing!  
  
 I've been working out my Spring with "Jazz at the Pawnshop" in DSD.  It's a classic album with a lot of great performances - and I don't even really consider myself a Jazz person.  It's engaging because the SU-1/Spring/HeadAmp all come together to deliver a dynamic, lifelike performance.  

  
 I've got some new HDMI cables to test out.  I'm going to being pulling my entire rig from its current living space so that I can try out a couple of "shorty" HDMIs.


----------



## Energy

t bone said:


> I've got some new HDMI cables to test out.  I'm going to being pulling my entire rig from its current living space so that I can try out a couple of "shorty" HDMIs.




Glad it got to you safe and sound!
Hope you'll find a significant improvement in sound quality with the shorter cable versus your current 1.5 meter.

---

Is there currently anything better than the Crystek CCHD-575 that can be swapped?


----------



## T Bone

macedonianhero said:


> Hey, did you break into my place and listen to my rig while I was off at work today?


 
 It wasn't a break in, it was more like an uninvited, impromptu listening session.
 BTW - You need to restock the bar - the topshelf liquor is empty!


----------



## joseph69

A friend of mine who had heard my Spring, and absolutely loved it placed an order for one which was supposed to be in this shipping batch, but it seems there's a delay of approximately 2-3 weeks due to cosmetic damage to the chassis during shipping to the Holo factory. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  He also said he was so impressed with my Spring that it's well worth the wait!


----------



## desik

thyname said:


> I finally took the plunge and got myself a used Level 3. Exciting times!


 
 Hi, can you make a comparison with Ares? The whole Ares thread is over-hyped, maybe you could give some more realistic impressions. How much better Spring L3 is?


----------



## bimmer100

It would be great to know which customers are posting on here. I can't even keep up with the forums anymore. 
But am quite limited to what I can say on here anyhow.

But we will be at canjam socal for those who may be interested to talk on person! I think I can say this on the forum. The downside to this is that our shipping for products will be delayed the week of the show due to us being at the show. Thanks for everyone's patience in advance! 


I wanted to confirm Joseph's post about delays. Unfortunately we had a shipment of chassis parts end up damaged in shipping. The copper side panels. And this is causing about a 2+week delay for shipments to those who are awaiting/expecting their Dac to ship. We usually are pretty accurate on ship times but this is something out of our control. All we can say is we really appreciate those who are understanding and patients we are doing our best to meet the demand of this product and get everyone's Dac's to them asap!


----------



## thyname

desik said:


> Hi, can you make a comparison with Ares? The whole Ares thread is over-hyped, maybe you could give some more realistic impressions. How much better Spring L3 is?


 
 I have yet to receive my Holo Spring L3. bought it used from an individual in Canada. The shipment is stuck in San Fran. I am in Virginia. Hopefully I get it before the weekend.


----------



## bimmer100

Thyname... if you bought a KTE L3 then I can get your name attached to the serial for warranty based on the original sale date. 
But when someone refers to L3, I don't know if they are talking about a different Dac or a genuine KTE L3. As it's a lot different than other versions of the Dac that are named L3. 

To do away with confusion we will stop calling our KTE a L3 spring to avoid confusion. Simply call it KTE Spring since the mod list is so significantly different that other "L3" spring dacs. We had the first modded version and all mods approved by the original engineer, Jeff. Some other resellers and distributors use that term, L3 and offer some form of upgrade version, yet I know of at least two other distributors with their own versions. 

Warranties from HoloAudio are valid along with trade up perks if you buy from HoloAudio HK or HoloAudioUSA which is KitsuneHiFi. 

I would be happy to transfer the warranty if yours is a KTE model, or anyone else for that matter. All of the KTE serials are recorded and tracked and easy for me to verify/lookup. 

I want to improve our customer service in any way we can. We try very hard to provide more personalized customer service to those who purchase directly from HoloAudioUSA and HoloAudioHK.


----------



## MarkR7

*** UPDATE: DAC Sold ****
  
 Good to know that the warranty is transferable!
  
 Cheers,
 Mark


----------



## Tboooe

bimmer100 said:


> Warranties from HoloAudio are valid along with trade up perks if you buy from HoloAudio HK or HoloAudioUSA which is KitsuneHiFi.


 
 Trade up perks???  So does this imply a way for customers to upgrade to the May DAC??  That would be cool!


----------



## oneguy

tboooe said:


> Trade up perks???  So does this imply a way for customers to upgrade to the May DAC??  That would be cool!




You are correct. That was mentioned in an earlier post. If my memory is correct the May DAC should be a little more than a year off.


----------



## Mfalcon

What is the May Dac everyone keeps talking about? Is this an upgrade or an entirely new product?


----------



## Robert McAdam

I believe its a higher spec Holo Spring than L3, I guess with design refinements from Jeff primarily and possibly some more Kitsune tweaks. But also mentioned was a PCM only Holo version which I'm keen on that may be cheaper. I'm sure Bimmer 100 can clear things up.


----------



## joseph69

robert mcadam said:


> I believe its a higher spec Holo Spring than L3, I guess with design refinements from Jeff primarily and possibly some more Kitsune tweaks. But also mentioned was a PCM only version which* I'm keen on that may be cheaper. *


 
 It's a different model DAC that isn't going to be less expensive then the Spring "KTE".


----------



## ufospls2

As far as I know, the "May" DAC, which might have a different name upon release, is a completely different product than the Spring DAC. I'd guess it will have a different chassis and what not.  Also much more expensive. I seem to remember the $4000-4500 price point being thrown around, but I could be remembering incorrectly. I think it was 18 months or so until production? Could be wrong on that as well.


----------



## oneguy

There is a PCM only version planned but the May is intended to be a higher priced model ($3-4K) than the Spring. More features like a remote and LED lights indicating sampling rate were mentioned. Do a search in this thread for "May DAC" for more info.


----------



## Robert McAdam

I see the May is a more upmarket product. I missed that comment. Its interesting as I would not rate the current Spring with Singxer/HDMI cable cheap. As it seems we need the Singxer to get the best sound which I find somewhat disturbing with the addition off yet another box and cable. I already have the infamous Intona which does some things well and confuses others in the USB input sound. Its a bandaid after all. Why DAC manufacturers can't get the internal inputs right is puzzling. But guess progress in different areas is leap frogging product output.
  
 This ultimately means not spending above a certain amount(for me $2000US in total) as it will soon become out of date, the curse of *digital*.


----------



## soundfanz

desik said:


> Hi, can you make a comparison with Ares? The whole Ares thread is over-hyped, maybe you could give some more realistic impressions. How much better Spring L3 is?




Ares thread over-hyped? Are you kidding? Why would you say it's over-hyped? I'd be interested to know whether you have even heard one?

The OP on the Ares thread preferred the Ares to a level 1 Holo Spring, not a level 3.
The Ares is a hell of a lot of Dac for the money, that's for sure.
And even better value with a 3 year warranty.


----------



## inthere

soundfanz said:


> Ares thread over-hyped? Are you kidding? Why would you say it's over-hyped? I'd be interested to know whether you have even heard one?
> 
> The OP on the Ares thread preferred the Ares to a level 1 Holo Spring, not a level 3.
> The Ares is a hell of a lot of Dac for the money, that's for sure.
> And even better value with a 3 year warranty.


 
  
  He's saying it's over-hyped because the OP is obviously biased and the only one in that thread using superlatives when describing the Ares


----------



## soundfanz

inthere said:


> He's saying it's over-hyped because the OP is obviously biased and the only one in that thread using superlatives when describing the Ares


 
  
 Really? And no one here is biased toward their Dac?  He likes the Ares better. Why do you have a problem with that? There are others that have heard both that agree. Others disagree. Who cares?
  
  Guess you haven't read the whole Ares thread. Plenty of folk, myself included, love the Ares.
  
 Nothing worse than people who diss a product...that have never even heard said product. 
  
 I've never heard a Holo Spring, but am sure it's a good bit of kit.
  
 And maybe you should let the guy I quoted answer for himself?


----------



## thyname

soundfanz said:


> Really? And no one here is biased toward their Dac?  He likes the Ares better. Why do you have a problem with that? There are others that have heard both that agree. Others disagree. Who cares?
> 
> Guess you haven't read the whole Ares thread. Plenty of folk, myself included, love the Ares.
> 
> ...




For quadruple Ares price, the KTE Holo Spring L3 better be better than Ares. Even if it 20% better I would be happy.

Having had Ares for a few days, gotta say, it is pretty damn ugly to the eye. Holo Spring on the other hand, is gorgeous looking. I saw it and played it in a meet up.

I can't post any comparison between the two, as I don't have the Holo yet, as I said before. Should arrive on Thursday according to USPS tracking info.


----------



## MacedonianHero

t bone said:


> Nice setup!  I like the vinyl decals that Tim had made up - they're unique.
> 
> I listened to the preview of Dark Side of Jazz at Chesky's site.  ...intriguing!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Jazz at the Pawnshop on DSD is brilliant! The second one has great tunes, but the sound quality does take a step back with some recording "anomalies" that can distract a bit. But Jazz at the Pawnshop "Late Night" is really good too. Being a trumpet player for over 35 years, I absolutely love jazz; with Miles Davis, Louis Armstrong, Chet Baker and Dizzie Gillespie as some of my all-time favourites!
  
 I'm sitting back with "Soul Brothers" by Ray Charles and Milt Jackson (Tidal Masters)...some awesome jazz for sure and when played with the KTE Spring DAC, it's like I'm there! This is definitely one impressive DAC for sure; just made the payment today, so the review unit won't be leaving my rack!
  


t bone said:


> It wasn't a break in, it was more like an uninvited, impromptu listening session.
> BTW - You need to restock the bar - the topshelf liquor is empty!


 
 Lol, that's where my 18 year old single malt went?


----------



## inthere

soundfanz said:


> Really? And no one here is biased toward their Dac?  He likes the Ares better. Why do you have a problem with that? There are others that have heard both that agree. Others disagree. Who cares?
> 
> Guess you haven't read the whole Ares thread. Plenty of folk, myself included, love the Ares.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Calm down, I'm not dissing anything, I'm telling you why the other guy said it was overhyped. The OP came on Head Fi and posted on one thread only, that seemed like something an employee of the company would do.


----------



## ZGojira

soundfanz said:


> Really? And no one here is biased toward their Dac?  He likes the Ares better. Why do you have a problem with that? There are others that have heard both that agree. Others disagree. Who cares?
> 
> Guess you haven't read the whole Ares thread. Plenty of folk, myself included, love the Ares.
> 
> ...


 

 I did some impressions a short while back if you are interested...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/833690/denafrips-ares-r2r-discrete-ladder-dac-close-up-view/585#post_13364291
  
 I'd probably do a proper comparison once the 68 has been burnt-in


----------



## joseph69

robert mcadam said:


> I see the May is a more upmarket product. I missed that comment. Its interesting as I would not rate the current Spring with Singxer/HDMI cable cheap. *As it seems we need the Singxer to get the best sound which I find somewhat disturbing with the addition off yet another box and cable. *I already have the infamous Intona which does some things well and confuses others in the USB input sound. Its a bandaid after all. Why DAC manufacturers can't get the internal inputs right is puzzling. But guess progress in different areas is leap frogging product output.
> 
> This ultimately means not spending above a certain amount(for me $2000US in total) as it will soon become out of date, the curse of *digital*.


 
 I didn't find this to be true at all.
 The Spring sounds excellent via USB. 
 If you would like to take it up a notch (which most are always looking to do in this crazy hobby) thats a different story.


----------



## soundfanz

inthere said:


> Calm down, I'm not dissing anything, I'm telling you why the other guy said it was overhyped. The OP came on Head Fi and posted on one thread only, that seemed like something an employee of the company would do.


 
  
 The guy lives in Russia. I doubt quite strongly that he represents the company. 
  
 I don't see why you and others can't grasp the fact that someone may like something over something else? 
  
 Like I said earlier, I'm sure the Holo Audio Spring is a good Dac. That doesn't mean another Dac from another company can't also be a good Dac.
  
 And over-hyped at $598 US?
  
 I don't think so.
  
@ZGojira- I read that "impression" against a Dac - 68 a  while back.


----------



## inthere

soundfanz said:


> The guy lives in Russia. I doubt quite strongly that he represents the company.


 
  
  He *says* he lives in Russia, I don't know him. 
  
  


soundfanz said:


> I don't see why you and others can't grasp the fact that someone may like something over something else?


 
  
 If I didn't I wouldn't have 12 DACs and thinking of buying the Ares. I think you are mistaken about me. 
  
 This is a Holo Audio Spring thread. Sorry, but I don't want to talk about the Ares anymore here.


----------



## Energy

I accumulated similar thoughts when I saw him vouch for the Ares by only uploading listening 'impressions' videos in which had no verbal spoken words whatsoever.

This shows a person with little understanding of how sound works. Recorded audio is concentrated into a camera microphone and then further compressed by YouTube upload. It provides no REAL feedback worth listening to.

 

Everyone can have their own opinion though. I doubt the guy works for the company as I've personally seen him on the Russian audiophile long before Denafrips was popularized.

Anyways, I have heard the Ares from a friend who bought one. I brought my Holo Audio Spring over to his house for a few days for some listening sessions and the latter to perform marginally better, by 15% or so.. Both using USB of course. Adding the Singxer SU-1 into the mix and running i2S, the Spring was roughly 20-22% ahead. More natural sound, less treble glare, isolated instruments, realistic timbre, fast transients, less thumpy bass, wider and deeper sound stage, slightly better separation, and more precise imaging.

I'll say the Ares is the best equipment I found for under $1000 and that's saying a lot. If only it did NOS it wouldn't have been too far from the Spring.


----------



## desik

soundfanz said:


> And over-hyped at $598 US?


 
 Jeez, calm down everybody. I only asked for a comparison.


----------



## desik

energy said:


> I accumulated similar thoughts when I saw him vouch for the Ares by only uploading listening 'impressions' videos in which had no verbal spoken words whatsoever.
> 
> This shows a person with little understanding of how sound works. Recorded audio is concentrated into a camera microphone and then further compressed by YouTube upload. It provides no REAL feedback worth listening to.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for impressions. a few clarifications:
  
 1. Spring level what?
 2. Spring was run through NOS or OS?
 3. When you added SU-1, I assume both were run through SU-1. Did Ares + SU-1 improve?


----------



## Energy

desik said:


> Thanks for impressions. a few clarifications:
> 
> 1. Spring level what?
> 2. Spring was run through NOS or OS?
> 3. When you added SU-1, I assume both were run through SU-1. Did Ares + SU-1 improve?




1. Spring level 1 & 2 (level 3 is only 2-3% better, but that may just be from the silver transformer which can add either more detail or brightness that can be perceived as having more detail). Level 1 and 2 sounds the same IMO. I found no difference with the Jensen capacitors.

2. NOS (you'll most likely always listen to this setting, i guarantee it)

3. Both default USB, but then ran with coaxial RCA. Spring showed more improvement from use of a DDC than the Ares. Not to say the Ares didn't improve with the use of the Singxer SU-1, but if I were to get the Ares, I'd just stick to the cheaper Singxer F-1. No point in using a DDC that's more than half the cost of the DAC itself. In that case I would just save for a Spring even if it meant I'd be using one without a DDC. The advantages with the higher priced unit is still worth it.

*SETUPS I RECOMMEND*
Performance: Denafrips Ares + Singxer F-1
High Performance: Holo Audio Spring + Singxer SU-1
Ultimate Performance: Holo Audio Spring + Uptone ISO Regen (or iFi iGalvanic 3.0) + Singxer SU-1

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## rudra

desik said:


> Hi, can you make a comparison with Ares? The whole Ares thread is over-hyped, maybe you could give some more realistic impressions. How much better Spring L3 is?


 

  If you had listened to the ARES and the Holo and made your observation I would have taken it differently(In a positive way).
  
 For e.g. every one raves about how good the ZMF Omni HP is. I have one. For me it is not a $899 headphone. It is more like a $500 - 600 HP. I rather prefer the EMU teak. Horses for courses.
  
 Look hard enough and you will eventually get someone who will validate what you are looking for.
  
 Peace out.


----------



## desik

rudra said:


> If you had listened to the ARES and the Holo and made your observation I would have taken it differently(In a positive way).
> 
> For e.g. every one raves about how good the ZMF Omni HP is. I have one. For me it is not a $899 headphone. It is more like a $500 - 600 HP. I rather prefer the EMU teak. Horses for courses.
> 
> ...


 

 Very good observation.
  
 Offtopic, I also had Omni and was disappointed. Prefer TH-X00 with a well matched amp. Emu Teak should sound even better, no doubt. But Omni was launched before the two, so this explains. Also LCD-2 that was always technically superior suffers from other issues. Audio world evolves quite fast, faster than CPU market for sure. It's nice to live in these times.


----------



## soundfanz

It would be a sad world if we all agreed on everything. 
Its not that the ZMF Omni isnt worth the asking price. IMO.
I own one (cherry)and think its glorious.
I'm much more inclined to believe its performance ( like any other bit of kit) is dictated by what else is in the chain.
And yes...I have heard both the Fostex and the Emu Teaks.

Back on topic, I'm hoping to hear a Holo Spring soon. Don't want one, just a listen.


----------



## joseph69

soundfanz said:


> I'm hoping to hear a Holo Spring soon. Don't want one, just a listen.


 
 Maybe you will after hearing one?


----------



## thyname

energy said:


> 1. Spring level 1 & 2 (level 3 is only 2-3% better, but that may just be from the silver transformer which can add either more detail or brightness that can be perceived as having more detail). Level 1 and 2 sounds the same IMO. I found no difference with the Jensen capacitors.
> 
> 2. NOS (you'll most likely always listen to this setting, i guarantee it)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your reviews and opinions are always appreciated!
  
 With regards to using Holo Spring with UpTone Regen and Singxer SU-1, does it really matter using any of those two if the source is not a computer USB, but instead a high(er) end USB device / streamer, such as the Sonore microRendu I have? Current setup: Roon Core on a PC directly connected to router. Then microRendu connected via Ethernet to Router "pulling" music from Roon Core / Server (fully integrated with Tidal HIFi tier), high quality USB cable from mRendu to the Holo Spring (it is arriving today!).
  
 In other words, would adding a Singxer SU-1 to the mix that already contains a microRendu improve anything?


----------



## joseph69

I use both the mR/SU1 KTE myself.
 I had the mR in my chain before adding the SU1 KTE and always preferred AoIP after using it with my PS Audio Perfectwave-ll/Bridge-ll. No drop outs, pos, clicking and a totally black background with consistently reliable SQ playback. I love it.
  
 When I added the SU1 (to my surprise) the difference in SQ was taken to another level. I've yet to eliminate the mR (and now I'm not sure I'm even going to) to hear if there is a decrease in SQ without the mR in my chain. I'm leaning towards leaving my rig the way it is and just enjoying it, which is very much what I've been doing.


----------



## inthere

soundfanz said:


> It would be a sad world if we all agreed on everything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 ​I wasn't impressed with the Omni at all when I heard it. The Eikon on the other hand, is the 2nd coming. Unbelievable.
  
 I wasn't impressed with my Holo Audio Spring either when I 1st got it.
  
 I'd recently bought the Dangerous Music Source to hold me off because of the 1 month wait for the Spring. The Source turned out to be the best DAC I'd ever had-Musical. Magical. Absolutely euphoric.
  
 So when I got the Spring after paying almost triple what I did for the Source, I was disappointed. It sounded like anything else. The Source crushed it. I kept reading it needed burn in, so I waited 100 hours, nope. 200 hours went by, nope. At that point I was about to hit the trade forums. Then at about the 280 hour mark, it kicked in.......................................holography.
  
 I still think the Source is more magical but the clarity is nothing like this. It's like you have the musicians right in front of you.


----------



## PitBul34

energy said:


> Everyone can have their own opinion though. I doubt the guy works for the company as I've personally seen him on the Russian audiophile long before Denafrips was popularized.


 
 Thanks. Ofcourse i doesn't work for Denafrips or someone else. I'm just a simple audiophile and I like music and good equipment much more than money. You may find me on Ebay (zero negative feedbacks since 2011). So, I'm the same guy like most people here. Yes, i live in Sochi (former 2014 winter Olympic city), Russian Federation and working in 'Gorky Gorod' all-season resort located inside the Olympic mountain cluster 'Krasnaya Polyana' (25 miles north from Black Sea coast, A138 road).  I'm photographer, you could see my photos, f.e. in this book:
  

  
  
 Belgium 'red devil' football fans in 'Gorky Gorod' all-season resort before 'Russia-Belgium' friendly match (FIFA World Cup 2018 'Fisht' Arena, Sochi, Russia, 03.28.2017):
  

  
  

  
 More my photos you can view here. Welcome!


----------



## thyname

Guys:
  
 Any link to the user manual for the KTE-L3 edition of Holo Spring?
  
 I could not find anything on their website.
  
 thanks,


----------



## bluesaint

Does anyone know if the USB 3.0 input means the HOLO is using full USB 3.0 specs?


----------



## thyname

Arrived! Up and running.


----------



## Superdad

bluesaint said:


> Does anyone know if the USB 3.0 input means the HOLO is using full USB 3.0 specs?


 
  
 While it has a blue USB jack, AFIK there is nothing USB 3.0 about it.  Just a very basic XMOS USB>I2S input.
  
 Besides, I don't know of ANY DACs or operating system that support USB 3.0 Superspeed.  There just is no need for it. High speed USB 2.0 at 480Mbps is plenty for audio.


----------



## HeadAmpTeam

Southern California Head-Fiers!  Come to next weekend's CanJam SoCal in downtown LA to hear the Holo Spring in our high-end demo system with the best headphones from Audeze, Focal, Hifiman, MrSpeakers, and Stax!


----------



## MacedonianHero

headampteam said:


> Southern California Head-Fiers!  Come to next weekend's CanJam SoCal in downtown LA to hear the Holo Spring in our high-end demo system with the best headphones from Audeze, Focal, Hifiman, MrSpeakers, and Stax!


 
  
 I can confirm from personal experience that the GS-X MK2 + KTE Spring DAC is a stunning combination!


----------



## joseph69

macedonianhero said:


> I can confirm from personal experience that the GS-X MK2 + KTE Spring DAC is a stunning combination!


 

 X2…and the BHSE as well.


----------



## hifi25nl

I have written a short review in Italian and English of the Holo Audio Spring level 1 RED at www.audio-linux.com
 Direct link:
http://tophifi.it/html/holo.html
  
 The review is focused on what I think it is the best method of upsampling the signal.


----------



## bluesaint

Just got my KTE L3 today.  So far so good with:
 HQPlayer DSD512 -> ifi USB3.0 -> USB 3.0 discreet power/signal cable -> KTE L3 -> Balanced XLR out -> ifi iCan PRO -> HE1000 V2 with pure silver balanced lavricables
  
 Soon to come:
 Uptone LPS1 powered SU1


----------



## oneguy

Very nice sight to see!


----------



## TimeLord

headampteam said:


> Southern California Head-Fiers!  Come to next weekend's CanJam SoCal in downtown LA to hear the Holo Spring in our high-end demo system with the best headphones from Audeze, Focal, Hifiman, MrSpeakers, and Stax!


 
  
  


macedonianhero said:


> I can confirm from personal experience that the GS-X MK2 + KTE Spring DAC is a stunning combination!


 
  
 I heard the Holo with the GS-X MK2 at NYC CanJam. I concur that the MK2 is a very good amp. If you can get to LA, make sure to stop and hear this.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Someone should try this experiment on the Holo Spring DAC. Run a 1-2hrs playlist with tracks from different albums then run the same playlist on another DAC, in my case a test Modi Multibit to hold me over until my next DAC purchase. (BTW, great value on that Mobi)

 One of the findings I think that made the Spring Level 3 a great listening is it has some kind of built-in replaygain. When I played playlists previously on Sundays when it's about being in the house cleaning, lounging, relaxing, I never had to play much with the volume between tracks...something I didn't notice until plugging in the Modi Multibit. Today, I'm having to go over to the Freya to adjust the speaker volume with some songs being soft and some being loud -- a task I didn't have to do with the Spring DAC.

 Is this the linear compensation the Spring DAC touts? Because if you think about it, part of the enjoyment of music is to be locked in the mood. Tough to do when the volume lowers and raises 10db between different albums. So with the replaygain implemented into the DAC, we're able to better focus on the music and the clean/clear audio the Spring produces.


----------



## joseph69

What is this "replaygain" implemented into the Spring?
 I've never heard anything about it.


----------



## guymrob

Hey guys, came across what looks like a little baby of the flagship Holo Spring Audio DAC. The new DAC is named as 'Sabretooth' Check out the link below:
http://www.goshopping.com.tw/?app=Taobao&act=Pdetail&id=43699736922

Looks like it is a R2R design, probably no linear compensation but has almost the same USB XMOS chipset board. It also includes a headphone amps and a remote! Definitely half the price or even more than the flagship model!


----------



## ZGojira

guymrob said:


> Hey guys, came across what looks like a little baby of the flagship Holo Spring Audio DAC. The new DAC is named as 'Sabretooth' Check out the link below:
> http://www.goshopping.com.tw/?app=Taobao&act=Pdetail&id=43699736922
> 
> Looks like it is a R2R design, probably no linear compensation but has almost the same USB XMOS chipset board. It also includes a headphone amps and a remote! Definitely half the price or even more than the flagship model!


 
  
 The units named after prehistoric creatures were an old line of products before the Spring.
 The Spring was supposed to be a "fresh start" for the designer.
  
 The sabertooth was designed to stack with the mammoth balanced amp.
 The T-Rex DACs were also known to be quite nice.


----------



## Superdad

joseph69 said:


> What is this "replaygain" implemented into the Spring?
> I've never heard anything about it.


 

 That's because it does not exist (at least not in this DAC--or any other that I am aware of).


----------



## joseph69

superdad said:


> That's because it does not exist (at least not in this DAC--or any other that I am aware of).


 
 Thank you.
 I never heard anything about it, which is why I asked.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I read a bit more on the r2r compensation.. interesting. I suppose that isn't replay gain after all.

Maybe the volume differences between albums are more apparent in SE vs XLR balanced throughout the system.


----------



## bluesaint

I just got my SU-1.  I was told by Tim that they had a beta firmware that supports DSD512 natively on SU-1 when exclusively used with KTE L3, anyone tried this?


----------



## Tboooe

bluesaint said:


> I just got my SU-1.  I was told by Tim that they had a beta firmware that supports DSD512 natively on SU-1 when exclusively used with KTE L3, anyone tried this?




I am interested in this as well but as far as I can tell the beta is not publicly available.


----------



## oneguy

bluesaint said:


> I just got my SU-1.  I was told by Tim that they had a beta firmware that supports DSD512 natively on SU-1 when exclusively used with KTE L3, anyone tried this?




Now that sounds interesting.


----------



## bluesaint

ok tim just responded to me that it should be ready in a month.


----------



## WNBC

Are Mac users able to play DSD64 and DSD128 files with their SU-1 + Spring DACs or just Holo alone?  
  
 I downloaded some free DSD files from 2L website.  The files play fine with Audirvana and I can see the files are truly DSD64 or DSD128 via the player but Mac Midi Audio Setup is outputing a max 24/352.8K, which is correctly displayed on the Spring LCD player.  Does not say DSD on the panel.  
  
 Am I missing a setting on the Mac or am I limited to a max 24/352?  
  
 Amarra 4 wouldn't even open the DSD files, but I can get Amarra 3 do play the files albeit with a bit of instability.  Using a trial version of Audirvana+ which seems to be pretty stable.


----------



## sheldaze

wnbc said:


> Are Mac users able to play DSD64 and DSD128 files with their SU-1 + Spring DACs or just Holo alone?
> 
> I downloaded some free DSD files from 2L website.  The files play fine with Audirvana and I can see the files are truly DSD64 or DSD128 via the player but Mac Midi Audio Setup is outputing a max 24/352.8K, which is correctly displayed on the Spring LCD player.  Does not say DSD on the panel.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes.
  
 There is a setting in Audirvana+, which may be limiting your output to PCM. I have never had good experience using the auto-detect to recognize DSD-capable DAC (or in this case DDC). But once I force it to recognize the output as DSD-capable, it plays with no issues. I have used the same 2L samples.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks I toggled some Audirvana settings but no luck. I'm using El Capitan OS. I'll have to do more digging into this but good to know it will eventually work.




sheldaze said:


> Yes.
> 
> There is a setting in Audirvana+, which may be limiting your output to PCM. I have never had good experience using the auto-detect to recognize DSD-capable DAC (or in this case DDC). But once I force it to recognize the output as DSD-capable, it plays with no issues. I have used the same 2L samples.


----------



## Torq

wnbc said:


> Are Mac users able to play DSD64 and DSD128 files with their SU-1 + Spring DACs or just Holo alone?
> 
> I downloaded some free DSD files from 2L website.  The files play fine with Audirvana and I can see the files are truly DSD64 or DSD128 via the player but Mac Midi Audio Setup is outputing a max 24/352.8K, which is correctly displayed on the Spring LCD player.  Does not say DSD on the panel.
> 
> ...


 
  
 In Audirvana, assuming you're using the latest version (3.0.3), go into Audirvana's Preferences, choose "Audio System", select the USB output for your SU-1 (should be "USB Audio 2.0(SU-1), and then in the drop-down list for "Native DSD Capability" select "DSD over PCM standard 1.1".
  
 Exit preferences, choose a suitable DSD file, and hit "Play".
  
 You do NOT need to concern yourself with the Midi Audio settings here, where relevant Audirvana will set them appropriately.
  
 Note that this will *only* work if you're using the I2S output from the SU-1.  AES/S/PDIF & TOSLINK are limited to DSD64.
  
 I'm running a DSD256 file this way right now - Audirvana is showing "DAC: DSD256 Stereo" and the front-panel on the Spring DAC is showing "DSD256".
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## MacedonianHero

torq said:


> In Audirvana, assuming you're using the latest version (3.0.3), go into Audirvana's Preferences, choose "Audio System", select the USB output for your SU-1 (should be "USB Audio 2.0(SU-1), and then in the drop-down list for "Native DSD Capability" select "DSD over PCM standard 1.1".
> 
> Exit preferences, choose a suitable DSD file, and hit "Play".
> 
> ...


 
 ^ What he said. Well said Torq.


----------



## sheldaze

wnbc said:


> Thanks I toggled some Audirvana settings but no luck. I'm using El Capitan OS. I'll have to do more digging into this but good to know it will eventually work.


 
 Sorry...very long day:
  

Audirvana+ > Preferences
Switch from General tab to Audio System tab
At the pull-down, Native DSD Capability, choose the last option


----------



## WNBC

Funny thing.  I did all of the mentioned settings and it wasn't reflected until I came back a little later.  I think it took a short bit after I exited the settings for them to take affect.
  
 Thanks!  All good now.  Now I have to think about building a DSD library.  Have to see what's out there for jazz.


----------



## T Bone

wnbc said:


> Now I have to think about building a DSD library.  Have to see what's out there for jazz.


 
 I have an unsolicited recommendation for your Jazz-on-DSD listening pleasure.  
 Try "Jazz at the Pawnshop" from ProStudioMasters
http://www.prostudiomasters.com/album/page/2496
 That title is available in traditional DSD64, "double rate" DSD128 (5.6448 MHz) and "quad-rate" DSD526 (11.2 MHz)
 If you want to experiment with DSD audio, this is a nice title to start your collection with.  
  
 It's also available at HiResAudio.com here and from NaitiveDSD here


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the suggestion.  I do have the 24/96 version from HDTracks.  Do you think there would be much advantage to getting the DSD version?  Guess it could be a way of comparing 24/96 FLAC to DSD256.  
  
 Since the last time I looked at HDTracks they've added Jazz at the Pawnshop Late Night and Jazz at the Pawnshop 2.  
  
 I'll check out the other offerings from prostudiomasters, hiresaduio and nativedsd.
  
  
  
 Quote:


t bone said:


> I have an unsolicited recommendation for your Jazz-on-DSD listening pleasure.
> Try "Jazz at the Pawnshop" from ProStudioMasters
> http://www.prostudiomasters.com/album/page/2496
> That title is available in traditional DSD64, "double rate" DSD128 (5.6448 MHz) and "quad-rate" DSD526 (11.2 MHz)
> ...


----------



## T Bone

wnbc said:


> I do have the 24/96 version from HDTracks.  Do you think there would be much advantage to getting the DSD version?  Guess it could be a way of comparing 24/96 FLAC to DSD256.


 
 I doubt that you would be able to hear an appreciable difference that would make the additional $$ worth it.  

 Japanese producer Kent Poon has a couple of great DSD test tracks available on his DesignWSound website.  (requires registration though)
 http://designwsound.com/dwsblog/recordings/audiophile-jazz-prologue-3-free-hi-res-samples/ 
  
 I really like both of these tracks from his "Audiophile Prologue 3" release:

http://www.kentpoon.com/music/AJP3-Samples/06%2006-Lush%20Life-DSD.dff.zip
http://www.kentpoon.com/music/AJP3-Samples/04%2004-Freddie-DSD.dff.zip 
  
 These will give you a couple of interesting tracks to experiment with the DSD format.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks, pulled down some DSD freebies.
  
 Hoping to add the GSX-2 or iFi iCan Pro in the future to pair with the Spring KTE.  I think that will result in the endgame rig for me.  Luckily I haven't heard any Stax yet 
  
 Next job is to read through the thread about various opinions about HDMI cables.  
  
  
 Quote:


t bone said:


> I doubt that you would be able to hear an appreciable difference that would make the additional $$ worth it.
> 
> Japanese producer Kent Poon has a couple of great DSD test tracks available on his DesignWSound website.  (requires registration though)
> http://designwsound.com/dwsblog/recordings/audiophile-jazz-prologue-3-free-hi-res-samples/
> ...


----------



## T Bone

wnbc said:


> Hoping to add the GSX-2 or iFi iCan Pro in the future to pair with the Spring KTE.


 
 I have my Holo paired with a HeadAmp GS-X mk2 and it's MAGIC.  You won't be disappointed if you get one.


----------



## MacedonianHero

t bone said:


> I have my Holo paired with a HeadAmp GS-X mk2 and it's MAGIC.  You won't be disappointed if you get one.


 
 ^ What he said.


----------



## DecentLevi

t bone said:


> I have my Holo paired with a HeadAmp GS-X mk2 and it's MAGIC.  You won't be disappointed if you get one.


 
 I've tried that enigmatic combo a few times at a recent meet I put on, when the HeadAmpTeam came to display it. Tried this rig on the HD-650, AKG 812 (IIRC) and HD-800, but the real magic happened with this unit on the Focal Utopia, which are an a timeless match. So much better than the HD-800 in in every way, and the exhibitor said the GSX-MK2 amp was tuned using the Utopia's.


----------



## MacedonianHero

decentlevi said:


> I've tried that enigmatic combo a few times at a recent meet I put on, when the HeadAmpTeam came to display it. Tried this rig on the HD-650, AKG 812 (IIRC) and HD-800, but the real magic happened with this unit on the Focal Utopia, which are an a timeless match. So much better than the HD-800 in in every way, and the exhibitor said the GSX-MK2 amp was tuned using the Utopia's.


 
 That last part is a bit impossible considering the GS-X Mk2 was released literally years before the Utopias. Maybe the other way around? The GS-X M2 has the least "sound of its own" and is as transparent as I've come across.


----------



## DecentLevi

OK that sounds more right, he could have said the Utopia's were tuned using the GSX amp. Yup IMO both the Utopia and GSX are transparent sounding, just the way I like it. And the synergy between the two is surreal.


----------



## MacedonianHero

decentlevi said:


> OK that sounds more right, he could have said the Utopia's were tuned using the GSX amp. Yup IMO both the Utopia and GSX are transparent sounding, just the way I like it. And the synergy between the two is surreal.


 
 Both are indeed very transparent and when the KTE Spring DAC is thrown into the mix...look out!


----------



## T Bone

decentlevi said:


> .....the real magic happened with this unit on the Focal Utopia, which are an a timeless match. So much better than the HD-800 in in every way


 
 I just took delivery of a pair of Focal Utopia's to evaluate this week.   Spring Holo --> GSX --> Utopia
 They are amazing!  My very first listening impression was how effortlessly the Utopia delivers a sense of space.  
  
 I'm finding them a little shy on the bottom end for my personal tastes.  That thought could be based on my experience with the Audeze LCD-3's which are known to be a little warmer.  
  
 To bring this back thought back around to the DAC - I would say that the Spring DAC does not "show it's *ss" even when paired with a very resolving amp and top-of-the-line headphones.


----------



## DecentLevi

@T Bone, by "ss", do you mean it doesn't sound sibilant as in you don't hear the S sounds from singers, or it doesn't sound solid state like? 
  
 The setup I was gleaming about with the Utopia + GsX v2 amp was also indeed paired with the Holo Spring DAC v3. I too found it a bit bass shy (hallmark of the Utopia), yet at the same time the bass definition (quality) was perhaps the best I've ever heard, and I'm sure that's nothing a little EQ won't fix.


----------



## T Bone

decentlevi said:


> @T Bone, by "ss", do you mean it doesn't sound sibilant as in you don't hear the S sounds from singers, or it doesn't sound solid state like?


 
 Sorry - it was meant to read, "doesn't show its ass".  I was born in the South and it's a common slang term for showing fault.   _(sometimes my inner redneck is exposed)_  
  
 It would have been more accurate for me to say that Focal Utopia's do not appear to reveal any fundamental flaws in the DAC.  Many times when we upgrade one component in an audio system, we find that we need to upgrade another upstream/downstream component.  For example, when I added the Holo Spring to my system I learned how poor my USB output was and soon bought an Intona USB Isolator.  
  


decentlevi said:


> I too found it a bit bass shy (hallmark of the Utopia), yet at the same time the bass definition (quality) was perhaps the best I've ever heard, and I'm sure that's nothing a little EQ won't fix.


 
 I would fully agree with your characterization about the bass definition.  It's a refined, tight bass - there's just not enough of it for my tastes.  I do not often EQ my music, but I have been trying a 1db or 2db "bump" at 170hz with the Utopia.  
  
 One of my favorite test tracks is "Sister" from the Black Keys El Camino album.  The bass guitar in this track should positively growl and rumble.  The Utopia leaves me wanting a little more.  I feel like my LCD-3's deliver that visceral impact better than the Utopia.  
  
 On the other end of the spectrum, the Utopia's take Rebecca Pidgeon's "You Got Me" to entirely new heights.  
 There's more detail and air in the Utopia - the music is just effortless  ...and I never felt constricted by my LCD's.
  
 Now I just need to find another $4k for these things!


----------



## WNBC

Seems like Spring + GSX-2 would pair well with bass heavy headphones like my Z1R and more neutral headphones will require a bit of EQ. Not bad. Probably will have one soon or I could save money and keep the MicroZ which is not bass-shy. What a terrible hobby this is.


----------



## DecentLevi

Just to clarify, neither the Holo Spring or GSX MK2 are bass shy, that's only the Utopia headphones. Although this wasn't something that bothered me in the slightest when auditioning multiple songs, just in hindsight the bass quantity did seem slightly recessed compared to the likes of HD-650.
  
 PS- the HD-650 actually sounded a little dark on the Holo v3 + GSX v2 system (using stock cable anyway)


----------



## WNBC

Gotcha, I misinterpreted that the GS-X was bass lean.


----------



## Clemmaster

Utopia? Bass-shy?!


----------



## blubliss

Yeah, the Utopias are not bass shy.


----------



## HeadAmpTeam

Just to avoid an confusion on the topic, Focal has purchased several GS-X MkII from us which have been used in the development and presentation of the Utopia headphones.


----------



## MacedonianHero

clemmaster said:


> Utopia? Bass-shy?!


 
 Certainly not. If you look at the FR response, it's pretty flat down to 20Hz. Some just want more bass than neutral methinks.


----------



## fitman

Hi there,
  
 Just went thru for 79 pages, and it do have a lot of good information to me.
  
 My env. is using Daphile as the player running on a i5 with 4G RAM desktop, my env. is as below:
  
 Daphile -> USB -> SU1 -> i2s -> Holo Spring
  
 I am using the Daphile option "PCM to DSD", to play my WAV file and it can show the DSD256 and DSD512 options. However, if I use DSD256/512 to play my WAV file, it come out intermittent sound like it cannot be synced.
  
 In DSD128, it work perfectly. Thus I would like to know whether it is the limitation or configuration issue for my gears.
  
 P.S.: I am using native DSD
  
 Anyone can provide some advice on it?


----------



## inthere

macedonianhero said:


> clemmaster said:
> 
> 
> > Utopia? Bass-shy?!
> ...




Agree, I've owned a LOT of bass shy headphones but the Utopia is definitely not one of them


----------



## 37mil

This looks like a great product. The thread is very long so I don't know if it's been mentioned before but does anyone know if the analog output is discrete or op amp based?
 Also, anyone notice differences using expensive HDMI cables? I know USB cables make a difference but was wondering if going over the I2S bus would negate cable differences.


----------



## Energy

inthere said:


> Agree, I've owned a LOT of bass shy headphones but the Utopia is definitely not one of them




I too found this funny.
HD800 would be what's considered bass shy. The Utopia or Elear most likely not.



37mil said:


> This looks like a great product. The thread is very long so I don't know if it's been mentioned before but does anyone know if the analog output is discrete or op amp based?
> Also, anyone notice differences using expensive HDMI cables? I know USB cables make a difference but was wondering if going over the I2S bus would negate cable differences.




Can't answer the first question as I too have forgotten, but...

If anything USB is less sensitive than i2S interface.
Cable differences can be spotted on i2S if using a cable that is not well shielded or designed in a way where it is heavily affected by crosstalk among other things. I would recommend Apollo Lightning V2 and keep the length as short as possible within your setup.

More information can be found on the two Singer SU-1 threads.


----------



## LoryWiv

zgojira said:


> These? https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-titanis-active-usb-processor/
> 
> I got two of the 800mA version along with my spring.
> 
> ...


 

 I won the Holo Titanis at last weeks CanJam SoCal but haven't put it into my chain yet. I also have an iFi iSilencer which seems to lower the noise floor although effect is subtle.
  
*ZGojira*, forgive me if I am being dense but are you saying the Titanis worsened the sound by adding THD?


----------



## thompsontechs

I just ordered both Spring Kitsune and the SU-1. Now comes the problem with the wife.... :O


----------



## DecentLevi

Hello folks, I hope you don't mind but I'm transferring a conversation that was in question of the validity of DDCs to this thread as I think we have more people of knowledge to better address this topic here. Granted this is the Holo Audio Spring DAC thread, of which I have tried several times and regard it very highly; yet I think the Holo Audio Spring thread that works fantastic in conjunction with the DDC Sungxer SU-1 is more relevant than the Feliks Audio Euforia thread these comments were posted on.
  
 Anybody with direct experience with the effect of DDC's / USB components on an audiophile rig vs. direct from a standard USB out, feel free to comment as well.
  


decentlevi said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch?search=ddc
> 
> Indeed DDC is the correct name for these USB components, AKA "*USB interface*". I had however mistook it for Domain Digital Converter instead of *Digital to Digital Converter* and called it a USB component instead of interface. The terminology for these relatively new devices are somewhat perplexing to say the least, but at least some universal terms are surfacing for these, LOL.
> 
> ...


 


pctazhp said:


> What is the basis of your claim that "cleaning up" is necessary because USB boards of majority of computers are not implimented to give optimal performance? Do you have technical information to support this claim? I feed my run-of-the-mill Dell desktop PC directly to my Bimby with wonderful results.
> 
> BTW, Schiit markets Wyrd to clean up "strange" noises and prevent "drop out". They expressly disavow any claim of sonic improvement:
> 
> _"Yes. Some listeners say Wyrd improves the sound of their system. We won't make any such claim to sonic nirvana—sorry, creating expectation bias and neuro-lingustic programming ain't something that we do. Sonic improvements are for you to decide. The rest of it—color printing and data stability—that’s like saying charging your iPhone off Wyrd makes the battery last longer. Have fun with that one"_


 


untilthen said:


> Good one Pct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 First I would like to say that I too was once put off at the notion of adding an extra component to my rig... and much less having to use extra electricity, yet fast forward to present I think they add far greater listening pleasure. Next I'd like to mention how strange it is that the topic of DDCs has never been discussed on any of the Feliks Audio threads.
  
 For me, the basis of my claim that to what these extraordinary USB components do is based on extensive testing; each time with very real, very noticeable auditory differences. I have full confidence that the difference these make can be explained by no other way than "*distinctive and unmistakable*". For me the USB 'cleaning' process all started out with the Wyrd from Schiit Audio which I have sworn by for 2 years... that's right, two solid years using many rigs including 5 different amps (Ember, LC, ESP-950, Elise and Little Labs Monotor), 3 different DACs (Gustard X12, Bimby, Mimby), for which I noticed an improvement each time.
  
 And for the occasion I had just now done another A/B of direct from USB vs. with my two DDCs into my DAC (Wyrd + SU-1). The only things that seemed to remain the same were perhaps the volume and the FR; yet I think even the FR extended further on the top. The *main *_*differences *_I heard were: 

Greatly improved realism: drums, vocals, etc. sounded lifelike vs. artificial without the DDCs.
Instrument separation: everything sounds nicely laid out in their space in a very cohesive and pleasing way, vs. somewhat clausterphobic without
Top end: treble sounds smooth, pleasing, detailed, yet not fatiguing at all as if everything is in its' place, rather than quite harsh and nearly shrill, and artificial without
Lower end: better defined
Greater sense of space / air / headroom
Resolution / refinement: The overall package with these two DDCs made such an extraordinary difference that without I hardly even recognized a song which I had just heard moments before with, of which I previously enjoyed for its' lifelike and pleasing sound, yet without sounded very much _'meh'_
  
 Schiit Audio downlplays the effect of their Wyrd for a reason: they don't want to be held accountable in the off-chance that somebody buys one and doesn't notice a difference. They don't want to claim that it does wonders, save for the person using it on their cheap headphones that aren't capable of letting them hear the difference. I also do not claim this to work "wonders" either; however when used on the right DAC or even in conjunction with a secondary DDC, I do believe it's priceless... and while on the topic of disclaimers I will also say the Wyrd is not the only one, as there are now at least a dozen companies that make USB components with prices ranging from around $50 up to almost $1,000, each doing the job differently. 
  
 On my experiences with the Singxer SU-1 with the Holo Audio DAC (level 3), I had done an A/B of it at a local San Jose meet on the table of an official vendor known as Head Amp, to which I noticed staggering improvements, though some of the reason for improvement here was more because it enabled us to use a different cable connection; I2S which this DAC is better implemented with rather than its' USB input; which is to say that not only its' USB signal cleaning helped the sound, but also it's digital _format _conversion as well. In regards to this pairing, the difference was heralded universally as a mainstay component for this DAC (including by this vendor himself), with the exception of some who use other DDCs for the Holo.
  
 Also I would like to mention that myself having been a 3-time organizer of local Head-Fi meets and having attended at least as many Can Jam events, it is a normal sight to see the likes of USB components 'behind' the DAC of many of the top setups.
  
 On the technical side, myself being no expert but here are a few highlights I've found of the reason these components make an auditory difference:
  

reduces jitter + packet errors
reduces RFI + EMI noise
regenerates the power; replacing the shared power bus of your PCs USB ports with its' 'clean' power
enhances the background and inner resolution of the recording
  
 I hope that somebody with more experience / insights can jump in here to explain why these components make such a big difference, and why the average PCs USB output is not implemented optimally for audiophile purposes (which is a fact).
  
 And per the notion of DDCs not doing anything for the sound, I would say:

Try it yourself and you may be impressed (on a good system)
Research the topic on audiophile forums. You may find some who disagree, but the majority would more likely agree
Why would these components exist if they don't make any noticeable difference?


----------



## DecentLevi

Also I noticed the iFi iSilencer can be had for only $50! I'm wondering if this can be a good replacement for the Wyrd, as I'll want something very small for long travels. Would anyone know how this compares to the Wyrd or other USB components sonically? However it apparently has no isolated power.


----------



## justbenice

i am intersting in this Holo Audio Spring R2R, i wonder where we can get best price for the basic version ? And how much it cost for upgrade the Silver O-Type transformer ?


----------



## bluesaint

justbenice said:


> i am intersting in this Holo Audio Spring R2R, i wonder where we can get best price for the basic version ? And how much it cost for upgrade the Silver O-Type transformer ?


 
  
 Level 1:
 https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacbase/
  
 Level 2:
 https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacred/
  
 Level 3:
 https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacgreen/


----------



## justbenice

bluesaint said:


> Level 1:
> https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacbase/
> 
> Level 2:
> ...


 
  
 Thank you ! 
 BTW, those Holo DAC made from China , right ?


----------



## bluesaint

justbenice said:


> Thank you !
> BTW, those Holo DAC made from China , right ?


 
 Yes they are, but you get full 3 years worth of transferable warranty through kitsune.


----------



## justbenice

bluesaint said:


> Yes they are, but you get full 3 years worth of transferable warranty through kitsune.


 
 Thank you! 
 So which company (or person) that made this DAC ?


----------



## ericr

Spring DAC is the product name.

Holo Audio is the manufacturer.

Kitsune Hi Fi is USA based and a primary distributor/dealer for Holo Audio (and a great company to do business with!).

Some Holo Audio products are exclusive to Kitsune - such as the KTE (Kitsune Tuned Edition) of the Spring DAC.


----------



## ZGojira

ericr said:


> Some Holo Audio products are exclusive to Kitsune - such as the KTE (Kitsune Tuned Edition) of the Spring DAC.


 
  
 Kitsune sells thier special modified version of the Spring DAC called the KTE (Kitsune Tuned Edition).


----------



## WNBC

Who's on First?


----------



## ericr

LOL!

That was my best laugh this week!


----------



## Contrails

Interested in this DAC. Do they ship outside Canada and US? In the shipping options, New Zealand is not listed as an option. And how do we choose the 230v version? Cheers.


----------



## joseph69

contrails said:


> Interested in this DAC. Do they ship outside Canada and US? In the shipping options, New Zealand is not listed as an option. And how do we choose the 230v version? Cheers.


 

 Contact Kitsune Hi-Fi and ask Tim who is the US distributor.


----------



## gk2013

contrails said:


> Interested in this DAC. Do they ship outside Canada and US? In the shipping options, New Zealand is not listed as an option. And how do we choose the 230v version? Cheers.


 
  
 If you need the 230V version you can also contact Magna Hifi. They ship the 230V version and probably to New Zealand. Offer 3 years full warrant. Nice company, highly recommended!


----------



## thompsontechs

Jeff Zhu is the designer of the DAC... He's very good from all I have read... I am on the waiting list for this DAC... if you get the Kit addition, you will have to wait 3-4 weeks as they are made to order.


----------



## joseph69

thompsontechs said:


> Jeff Zhu is the designer of the amp... He's very good from all I have read... I am on the waiting list for this amp... if you get the Kit addition, you will have to wait 3-4 weeks as they are made to order.


 

 What amp?


----------



## thompsontechs

joseph69 said:


> What amp?


 
 Changed it...


----------



## MacedonianHero

thompsontechs said:


> Changed it...


 
 ...it still says amp.


----------



## Contrails

Just placed an order for Level 3 with Magnahifi.  Cheers for the tip.


----------



## thompsontechs

macedonianhero said:


> ...it still says amp.


 
 Strange, I changed it, but I guess it didn't take...


----------



## MacedonianHero

thompsontechs said:


> Strange, I changed it, but I guess it didn't take...



Fixed now.


----------



## mock-up

Holo for sale

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/holo-spring-dac-r2r-dsd512-—-level-3.845501/


----------



## joseph69

mock-up said:


> Holo for sale
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/holo-spring-dac-r2r-dsd512-—-level-3.845501/


If you don't mind me asking, what will you be replacing the Holo with?


----------



## EElegances

Balanced Question: Which pin on the balanced outputs is hot? Pin 2 or 3?
My amplifier manual says "polarity is incorrect" if "bass is not spatial". I seem to have a more cohesive sound when my amp is set at normal polarity but there's more bass when phase is switched. As for "spatial", I'm undecided. So no more guessing.


----------



## TimeLord

EElegances said:


> Balanced Question: Which pin on the balanced outputs is hot? Pin 2 or 3?
> My amplifier manual says "polarity is incorrect" if "bass is not spatial". I seem to have a more cohesive sound when my amp is set at normal polarity but there's more bass when phase is switched. As for "spatial", I'm undecided. So no more guessing.



 You can use this diagram for the pinout of 4-pin XLR.


----------



## EElegances

TimeLord said:


> You can use this diagram for the pinout of 4-pin XLR.


Is that the layout for the balanced outputs of the Holo Spring Dac or just an example photo? I imagine most use the same layout but some must not since my amp gives a choice.


----------



## TimeLord

EElegances said:


> Is that the layout for the balanced outputs of the Holo Spring Dac or just an example photo? I imagine most use the same layout but some must not since my amp gives a choice.



I was a bit confused on your original question it seems. I thought you were inquiring about your amp's balanced output and assumed 4-pin XLR. You want to know about the dual 3-pin XLR output of the Holo. 

I haven't had to make any adjustments for Holo and I am using standard 3-pin XLR cables. Pin 2 is positive.


----------



## EElegances (Apr 30, 2017)

This is from my amps manual. There is a phase selector to match the incoming XLR signal. It "works" either way but sounds different so I just wanted to verify the correct setting. It's likely the "normal" setting, but ...


----------



## mock-up

joseph69 said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what will you be replacing the Holo with?



I have analog only setup (vinyl).


----------



## T Bone

Microsoft finally has a build of Win10 that includes Native Class 2 USB Audio support - i.e. "kernel level" support for USB audio devices.  That means you can skip the device driver.  
Computer Audiophile has a nice write up on it HERE.

I installed the Windows "Creators Update".  (took 40 minutes!)  and have begun experimenting with it.
In the image below, you can see the new output format is labeled "Kernel Streaming".  
Here's some of the higher bit-rate formats that I've been able to play so far:

24/192Khz PCM

24/384Khz PCM
DSD64 @ 2.82Mhz
DSD128 @ 5.64Mhz _"Double Rate"_
DSD256 @ 11.2Mhz _"Quad Rate"_
Note that "native" DSD playback; a key feature of the Spring DAC; is only available when using the Holo drivers.  
USB Audio Class 2 streams DSD in the familiar "DSD over PCM" (DoP).


----------



## gameon

Just purchased KTE L3 with the KTE SU-1 last night, Also going to try the Intona Industrial and some of Tim's power cords and Interconnects, very excited...


----------



## T Bone

gameon said:


> Just purchased KTE L3 with the KTE SU-1 last night, Also going to try the Intona Industrial and some of Tim's power cords and Interconnects, very excited...


Congratulations on your new DAC.  I know you are going to enjoy it!
I had an Intona USB isolator in my system and it made a significant difference.  I recently sold it to make way for Uptone Audio's new "ISO Regen".  You might want to hold off on the Intona and see how the new ISO Regen fairs in comparison.  I suspect (hope) it outperforms the highly regarded Intona.  

What kind of input will you be feeding your new DAC?  USB, AES or I2S?
Many Spring owners have their DAC's paired with a Singxer SU-1, it makes a significant difference!


----------



## gameon

T Bone said:


> Congratulations on your new DAC.  I know you are going to enjoy it!
> I had an Intona USB isolator in my system and it made a significant difference.  I recently sold it to make way for Uptone Audio's new "ISO Regen".  You might want to hold off on the Intona and see how the new ISO Regen fairs in comparison.  I suspect (hope) it outperforms the highly regarded Intona.
> 
> What kind of input will you be feeding your new DAC?  USB, AES or I2S?
> Many Spring owners have their DAC's paired with a Singxer SU-1, it makes a significant difference!


I2S on the input, I'm just going to Demo the intona for a bit, any advantage to adding the ISO Regen also to the chain with the Intona? I notice some people have both, I know each piece does some things differently


----------



## earnmyturns

gameon said:


> I2S on the input, I'm just going to Demo the intona for a bit, any advantage to adding the ISO Regen also to the chain with the Intona? I notice some people have both, I know each piece does some things differently


microRendu+LPS-1>USB>SU-1>I2S>Spring KTE 3 is very, very good, I doubt there's much I could do to the digital signal path to make it audibly better.


----------



## MacedonianHero

gameon said:


> Just purchased KTE L3 with the KTE SU-1 last night, Also going to try the Intona Industrial and some of Tim's power cords and Interconnects, very excited...



Congrats! You will love this combination! Listening to my KTE L3 + KTE SU-1 and I am still enthralled with what I'm hearing through the LCD-4s! 

FWIW, my review will be out next Wednesday.


----------



## gameon

MacedonianHero said:


> Congrats! You will love this combination! Listening to my KTE L3 + KTE SU-1 and I am still enthralled with what I'm hearing through the LCD-4s!
> 
> FWIW, my review will be out next Wednesday.


Looking forward to your Review!!! Do you use a Intona Industrial or ISO Regen in your chain?


----------



## Energy

gameon said:


> I2S on the input, I'm just going to Demo the intona for a bit, any advantage to adding the ISO Regen also to the chain with the Intona? I notice some people have both, I know each piece does some things differently



No benefits in having both. They both do the same job but ISO REGEN will do far better. For the money, it's best purchasing the UpTone device and eliminating the need for second USB cable by utilizing the "USPCB" that it comes with.

Most of us Holo Audio Spring users have the Singxer SU-1 alongside to output I2S and have either done the internal regulator modification or converted it to be powered by the UpTone LPS-1 and have gained significant results.

Σ₪ergψ


----------



## joseph69

MacedonianHero said:


> FWIW, my review will be out next Wednesday.


Looking forward to reading your review as well. Please post when and where.
Thanks


----------



## Contrails

I just sent Bimmer100 a message asking about upgrading my Su-1.  

Looking forward to the review MacedonianHero.


----------



## elan120

Contrails said:


> I just sent Bimmer100 a message asking about upgrading my Su-1.



Make sure to ask having the 3.3V voltage regulator (LD1086) replaced on the main board as well.  This regulator is feeding all but one component on the main board, which will become the bottleneck if not replaced.  Meanwhile, pending on the regulator used in place of the stock 3.3V regulator, either replace all 5 electrolytic caps on the main board to low ESR caps (5~7mohm), or 3 with low ESR and the remaining 2 near the 3.3V regulator with higher ESR caps (50~70mohm) - consult regulator spec sheet requirements.

The most effective route so far has been upgrade the main power using Uptone LPS-1 plus the components above.

Hope this helps.


----------



## EElegances

What's the best way to get a hold of Bimmer? I contacted him via his Kitsune website a week or three ago with a question about my Holo Spring Dac and never got a response.


----------



## MacedonianHero

gameon said:


> Looking forward to your Review!!! Do you use a Intona Industrial or ISO Regen in your chain?



Thanks...it'll be out on our website on Wednesday next week. I'm not using the Intona or ISO (USB Audioquest Coffee --> KTE SU-1 --> KTE L3 Spring DAC is the setup I used).


----------



## Contrails

@elan120 would it a better option to upgrade the Su-1 with this - https://kitsunehifi.com/product/singxer-su-1-dc-power-conversion-kit-kitsunehifi-2-1mmx5-5mm/ 

and use a LPS-1 to power it?


----------



## Superdad

Contrails said:


> @elan120 would it a better option to upgrade the Su-1 with this - https://kitsunehifi.com/product/singxer-su-1-dc-power-conversion-kit-kitsunehifi-2-1mmx5-5mm/
> 
> and use a LPS-1 to power it?



Many certainly do!


----------



## Contrails

Cheers, this upgrade will definitely be on the cards.  I just spent $400 on Jupiter copper foil caps for my tube amp.   Jeez this hobby never stops.


----------



## elan120

Contrails said:


> @elan120 would it a better option to upgrade the Su-1 with this - https://kitsunehifi.com/product/singxer-su-1-dc-power-conversion-kit-kitsunehifi-2-1mmx5-5mm/
> 
> and use a LPS-1 to power it?



I did the Uptone LPS-1 upgrade route as the first step, although I didn't purchase this conversion kit, but did the conversion myself so I can use better suited internal cable as well as my choice of DC connector.  This conversion certainly can save time and effort if you are not equipped to make up your own conversion kit - mainly the back plate that holds the DC connector.

Other than the LPS-1 upgrade, as mentioned earlier, highly recommend replacing the 3.3V voltage regulator (LD1086) and the 5 large electrolytic caps to much lower noise voltage regulator and much lower ESR capacitors so you can remove the bottleneck after the LPS-1 upgrade, and this is due to most of the parts on the reclocking side of the SU-1 (after the ISO7641FM digital isolators) run on 3.3V from the LD1086 voltage regulator that has relatively high output noise at 100uV.  Replacing this regulator to lower output noise regulators such Belleson, Sparkos, or my new favorite LT3045, will bring the output noise down to 3~4uV with Belleson and Sparkos, 0.8uV with LT3045, so the final signal output will be less affected by both noise and ultimately jitter.  To make the digital circuitry work better, low ESR capacitors (I am using Organic Polymer Capacitors like Nichicon R7) will provide quicker charge/discharge, lower output ripple, stability for power control loops, which will work better than the stock electrolytic caps as well as other "audio grade" electrolytic caps such as Nichicon KZ, FG (Fine Gold), KA...etc.

You can do all these in different phases by changing the power input to LPS-1 as the first step, which you should be able to detect a good degree of improvement, and then upgrade the rest as second phase to get further improvement.

My $0.02...


----------



## Guidostrunk (May 14, 2017)

Wasn't sure where to post this question , so I'm gambling here.
Can anyone tell me about the "Holo Titanis"?
Is it similar to the Uptone Regen?

Sorry for the derailment
Lol
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-titanis-active-usb-processor/


----------



## Energy

Guidostrunk said:


> Wasn't sure where to post this question , so I'm gambling here.
> Can anyone tell me about the "Holo Titanis"?
> Is it similar to the Uptone Regen?
> 
> ...



As far as I can tell yes. They both _attempt _to fix the USB power issue as well as correcting on USB signal regeneration.


----------



## bimmer100 (May 15, 2017)

EElegances said:


> What's the best way to get a hold of Bimmer? I contacted him via his Kitsune website a week or three ago with a question about my Holo Spring Dac and never got a response.


I have no emails from you and sorry if I missed it. Please contact me via our website for service. Thank you for reaching out on here, I will help you via our website contact form. Thanks!


----------



## EElegances

bimmer100 said:


> I have no emails from you and sorry if I missed it. Please contact me via our website for service. Thank you for reaching out on here, I will help you via our website contact form. Thanks!


Sure no problem. To clarify I did fill out the form on the website but will try again. Maybe it didn't send/complete. Thanks!


----------



## bimmer100

EElegances said:


> Sure no problem. To clarify I did fill out the form on the website but will try again. Maybe it didn't send/complete. Thanks!


Please refer to your headfi name when you contact me So I know that i've been able to successfully reach you and reply to your questions. Thank you!

-Tim


----------



## Contrails

Ok so just received the Holo Spring DAC. I ordered the Level 3 but mine doesn't have the circuit layout Printout on top of it.  Should I be calling Houston or everything's good?


----------



## Contrails (May 16, 2017)

First impression always count, and this DAC does not disappoint.  I am honestly hearing more details.  Super black background.  Guitars sound amazing.  Bass has a little more thump to it.  Vocals are more clearer.  And this is with USB fed directly to the DAC in NOS mode.  Still waiting for the Apollo i2s cable so I can add the SU-1 to the chain.  I was using a Metrum Musette previously.


----------



## Matez

Contrails said:


> First impression always count, and this DAC does not disappoint.  I am honestly hearing more details.  Super black background.  Guitars sound amazing.  Bass has a little more thump to it.  Vocals are more clearer.  And this is with USB fed directly to the DAC in NOS mode.  Still waiting for the Apollo i2s cable so I can add the SU-1 to the chain.  I was using a Metrum Musette previously.



That's interesting. I haven't heard this DAC, yet the last ting I subjectively can say about R2R (be it Soekris based or TotalDAC) is that in terms of depth something's off.


----------



## Contrails (May 16, 2017)

It might be the case that my previous DAC -  Metrum Musette was completely lacking depth in comparison.  Overall they both might be lacking depth compared to a Yggy for example.  I am gonna test this further later on once it's fully burned in.


----------



## earnmyturns (May 16, 2017)

Contrails said:


> Ok so just received the Holo Spring DAC. I ordered the Level 3 but mine doesn't have the circuit layout Printout on top of it.  Should I be calling Houston or everything's good?


Neither does mine, which I got 1 month ago. I definitely paid for the KTE 3.... It sounds very good after two weeks of continuous burn-in on my headphone chain, but I've not done yet the final test of comparing it side by side with the Yggy on my speaker system.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Contrails said:


> Ok so just received the Holo Spring DAC. I ordered the Level 3 but mine doesn't have the circuit layout Printout on top of it.  Should I be calling Houston or everything's good?



That's an extra adder...looks quite sexy IMO.


----------



## gameon

Waiting For my KTE Dac & KTE SU-1 To arrive, In the meantime Tim sent me some of my other Items I ordered, for a small taste...LOL...Some Power cords - KTE USB - Intona isolator - XLR Cables...... Great Guy to deal with so far..Fast deliver time - Nice Packaging and Presentation...Can't wait for the other Items.!!!


----------



## MacedonianHero (May 23, 2017)

gameon said:


> Waiting For my KTE Dac & KTE SU-1 To arrive, In the meantime Tim sent me some of my other Items I ordered, for a small taste...LOL...Some Power cords - KTE USB - Intona isolator - XLR Cables...... Great Guy to deal with so far..Fast deliver time - Nice Packaging and Presentation...Can't wait for the other Items.!!!



Have you received them yet?

In case anyone is interested, my KTE L3 Spring DAC (with the KTE SU-1) review is now up on our site.   In short, I found this combination a tour de force! Simply one incredibly transparent and clean DAC that gives you up to DSD512 (or 256 for Mac). Never "digital" sounding, nor slow. It splits the uprights dead and centre in this regard and beats many DACs costing 2-3X more (if not even higher).


----------



## theveterans

^ Can't find the link. Kindly share it thanks!


----------



## MacedonianHero

theveterans said:


> ^ Can't find the link. Kindly share it thanks!



It's on Headphone.Guru


----------



## theveterans

^ Thanks sir. Excellent review by the way


----------



## MacedonianHero

theveterans said:


> ^ Thanks sir. Excellent review by the way



Thanks! Excellent DAC too...made the whole process a lot easier that way.


----------



## joseph69

MacedonianHero said:


> It's on Headphone.Guru


Thanks.


----------



## Contrails

Nicely written.

Btw, it is prefereable to leave the DAC in standby mode or just leave it ON when not being used?

Cheers.


----------



## joseph69

@MacedonianHero 

Excellent and thorough review as always!


----------



## syn959 (May 23, 2017)

Contrails said:


> Nicely written.
> 
> Btw, it is prefereable to leave the DAC in standby mode or just leave it ON when not being used?
> 
> Cheers.



I'm interested in the answer as well since I received mine recently. I decided to hook it to a power meter and sadly it reported 22.5 W standby and 23.1 W on so I don't think I'll be leaving mine on all the time regardless of the answer. I'll probably leave it on for a few hours before I listen to them.

@MacedonianHero 
Nicely written review!


----------



## gr8soundz

MacedonianHero said:


> In case anyone is interested, my KTE L3 Spring DAC (with the KTE SU-1) review is now up on our site.   In short, I found this combination a tour de force! Simply one incredibly transparent and clean DAC that gives you up to DSD512 (or 256 for Mac). Never "digital" sounding, nor slow. It splits the uprights dead and centre in this regard and beats many DACs costing 2-3X more (if not even higher).



Great review Mace! Worth the wait and very detailed.

I'm using a different ladder DAC but am hearing similar audio improvements. So much that I've spent weeks just trying to accurately describe the sound (not done yet though).


----------



## gameon

MacedonianHero said:


> Have you received them yet?
> 
> In case anyone is interested, my KTE L3 Spring DAC (with the KTE SU-1) review is now up on our site.   In short, I found this combination a tour de force! Simply one incredibly transparent and clean DAC that gives you up to DSD512 (or 256 for Mac). Never "digital" sounding, nor slow. It splits the uprights dead and centre in this regard and beats many DACs costing 2-3X more (if not even higher).



My KTE SU-1 Is on the way, The KTE L3 should be soon, I'll check out your review later today, looking forward too it - I did get my Kitsune Xlr's and Intona industrial, The cables are very nice as well as the Kitsune USB, All made a very nice improvement, really opened up the sound, Really looking forward to the KTE L3 and SU-1 
Thank's for checking..!


----------



## gameon

Nice Review Mace, can't wait to get mine!


----------



## MacedonianHero

^ Thanks fellas!  Reviewing great audio gear like this is always a pleasure! Just to conclude, I've since sold my previous DAC (costing 2X) and purchased the KTE L3 Spring DAC and when coupled with the KTE SU-1, this combination is VERY hard to beat. The sound staging is really a revelation actually...I was always happy with my Utopia's ability in this regard, but boy did things kick up a few notches with this new setup! 

FWIW, I usually keep it in "Standby" mode when not in use. Tim (from Kitsune) keeps his on all the time...hard to say which is preferred. Can other owners chime in here? I'm a bit curious.


----------



## MacedonianHero

gameon said:


> My KTE SU-1 Is on the way, The KTE L3 should be soon, I'll check out your review later today, looking forward too it - I did get my Kitsune Xlr's and Intona industrial, The cables are very nice as well as the Kitsune USB, All made a very nice improvement, really opened up the sound, Really looking forward to the KTE L3 and SU-1
> Thank's for checking..!



Funny you should mention the cables....I am loving Kitsune's USB and XLR cables! Some of the very best I've heard; regardless of price point!


----------



## joseph69

I leave my KTE Spring DAC in "standby" mode when not in use and my KTE SU-1 is powered on all of the time.


----------



## MacedonianHero

joseph69 said:


> I leave my KTE Spring DAC in "standby" mode when not in use and my KTE SU-1 is powered on all of the time.



That's pretty much what I do Joseph as well.


----------



## gameon

*Macedonia, Are you using a Intonia Industrial in your chain with the KTE L3/SU-1 ? The cables are very nice sounding, and built very well. My SU-1 came today, have not had time to play with it, I have to run out and get a AES/EBU Cable for now to connect to my Dac until my KTE L3 Arrives Then I'll connect via Hdmi I2S*


----------



## MacedonianHero

gameon said:


> *Macedonia, Are you using a Intonia Industrial in your chain with the KTE L3/SU-1 ? The cables are very nice sounding, and built very well. My SU-1 came today, have not had time to play with it, I have to run out and get a AES/EBU Cable for now to connect to my Dac until my KTE L3 Arrives Then I'll connect via Hdmi I2S*



Nope...I'm using the KTE USB cable from my iMac to the KTE-SU1 and the Supra HD5 HDMi i2s (0.5m) from my KTE SU-1 to my KTE L3 Spring DAC.

In case some aren't aware, but Tim also just released some XLR cables and boy are they beautifully put together! Sonically they are outstanding and some of the very best I've heard!
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/xlr-rca-interconnect/


----------



## elan120

gameon said:


> My KTE SU-1 Is on the way, The KTE L3 should be soon, I'll check out your review later today, looking forward too it - I did get my Kitsune Xlr's and Intona industrial, The cables are very nice as well as the Kitsune USB, All made a very nice improvement, really opened up the sound, Really looking forward to the KTE L3 and SU-1
> Thank's for checking..!



Just stopping by, looks like you are getting very similar components I have such as SU-1 (modded), Holo Spring L3, and Kitsune XLR cable, and I am sure you will be having a lot of enjoyable time once you have them all put together.  One component I just added this week is the newly released Uptone IsoRegen, and this little device make a great improvement in overall SQ, and I would highly recommend take a closer look.


----------



## leeg

I'm selling my Industrial version Intona, and I also have a .5m pr of Tim's XLR interconnect also for sale.  PM if interested.


----------



## gameon

elan120 said:


> Just stopping by, looks like you are getting very similar components I have such as SU-1 (modded), Holo Spring L3, and Kitsune XLR cable, and I am sure you will be having a lot of enjoyable time once you have them all put together.  One component I just added this week is the newly released Uptone IsoRegen, and this little device make a great improvement in overall SQ, and I would highly recommend take a closer look.


Did you have an Intona at one point or did you get right into the IsoRegen? The Kitsune XLR'S are very nice cables, and have a wonderful sound to them.


----------



## elan120

gameon said:


> Did you have an Intona at one point or did you get right into the IsoRegen? The Kitsune XLR'S are very nice cables, and have a wonderful sound to them.



I didn't get the Intona, I eventually went with ifi iUSB3 Micro along with Gemini cable, and liked the improvement quite a bit, but IsoRegen I received earlier this week managed to improved the overall SQ even further.  I was holding off purchasing Intona and was waiting for IsoRegen to be released, since it has great design concept in isolating noise from upstream sources, great clock and ultra low voltage regulators internally to regenerate clean signal to the output, when powering with LPS-1, it also isolates AC leakage current from AC power line, making the signal integrity extremely clean going into SU-1.  I feel it could be the best USB grunge blocker on the market today, when combine with modded SU-1, can make a super combo for the Spring DAC.


----------



## whirlwind

Thought I would join this thread and start reading through it.

New amp coming soon and I think it will be worthy of a new dac.....this Holo Springs is on my short list and after a couple of pm's to a few people that I very much trust their opinions.....I have ended up here 

Will try to work my way through this thread.


----------



## earnmyturns

whirlwind said:


> Thought I would join this thread and start reading through it.
> 
> New amp coming soon and I think it will be worthy of a new dac.....this Holo Springs is on my short list and after a couple of pm's to a few people that I very much trust their opinions.....I have ended up here
> 
> Will try to work my way through this thread.


Check my signature for my two main setups. Very happy with my Spring KTE 3. A bit more edgy/primary colors than the Yggy, but for some orchestral music, it is a tad more involving than the Yggy. Small differences overall, both very satisfying. I listen only to PCM in NOS mode, so I have nothing to say about DSD or upsampling modes.


----------



## whirlwind

Does anybody here use this dac with windows 7 and foobar.

Wondering if there are any issues with this.


----------



## ericr

whirlwind said:


> Does anybody here use this dac with windows 7 and foobar.
> 
> Wondering if there are any issues with this.



No problems for me - worked well.  The same with Windows 10, as well.


----------



## whirlwind

ericr said:


> No problems for me - worked well.  The same with Windows 10, as well.



Great thanks for that....using Foobar and playing DSD also ?


----------



## ericr

Yes, using Foobar.  No, haven't tried DSD.


----------



## Contrails

Just received the Su-1 and straight away the sound quality just goes up another level with the i2S.  More detailed, especially in the lower frequencies, wider soundstage, definitely has improved depth.


----------



## TimeLord

whirlwind said:


> Great thanks for that....using Foobar and playing DSD also ?



I'm using Windows 10 and Foobar2000. I don't have much content in DSD, but no problem playing it. 

You will need to get the requisite output components for foobar2000, but that's it.


----------



## whirlwind

TimeLord said:


> I'm using Windows 10 and Foobar2000. I don't have much content in DSD, but no problem playing it.
> 
> You will need to get the requisite output components for foobar2000, but that's it.



Thanks.


----------



## jcn3 (May 31, 2017)

syn959 said:


> I decided to hook it to a power meter and sadly it reported 22.5 W standby and 23.1 W on so I don't think I'll be leaving mine on all the time regardless of the answer. I'll probably leave it on for a few hours before I listen to them.



Just so you know, 22-23W is not very much -- draws only .2 amps.  To compare, a Schiit Gungnir consumes 20w; a Schitt Yggy consumes 25w; and a Audio GD NOS 7 consumes 48w.  basically, it's slightly more than leaving a 20w light bulb (think candelabra bulb) on all of the time.


----------



## syn959 (Jun 1, 2017)

jcn3 said:


> Just so you know, 22-23W is not very much -- draws only .2 amps.  To compare, a Schiit Gungnir consumes 20w; a Schitt Yggy consumes 25w; and a Audio GD NOS 7 consumes 48w.  basically, it's slightly more than leaving a 20w light bulb (think candelabra bulb) on all of the time.



Thanks, and I agree that it's not that much and can see why people might leave theirs on all the time. I was really hoping that stand-by would consume way less than what was measured and the Spring DAC does give off a fair amount of heat even on stand-by. So for me given my current listening pattern it didn't make sense to leave it on 24x7 even on stand-by. However, I'll probably experiment more and note any differences which may change my decision. It's all part of the journey.

I also measured my Gungnir MB right after my Spring DAC since I was curious as well and mine measured around 14.5 watts.


----------



## whirlwind

I bit the bullet and ordered this dac from Tim, this past week.

Looks like a 4 or 5 week wait....can't wait to give it a spin.


----------



## joseph69

Congratulations!
I assume the KTE due to the wait time?


----------



## whirlwind

joseph69 said:


> Congratulations!
> I assume the KTE due to the wait time?



You are correct, Joseph.


----------



## inthere

Selling my Level 3, going to try to move up to Dave, listed on the trade forum


----------



## whirlwind

Can anybody tell me if Tim, at Kitsune Audio, contacts you before the dac is shipped or after the dac is shipped ?


----------



## gameon

Yes he does, He is Pretty good about communicating . I just received mine 2 days ago. He does get busy, but he is very good at keeping in touch.


----------



## joseph69 (Jun 14, 2017)

@whirlwind 

Yes, as @gameon mentioned, you'll receive a shipping notice prior, and have it very shortly afterwards.


----------



## Robert Joe

Is anyone using a SOtm sMS-200 with this DAC or this DAC+Singxer SU-1?
Are you using DOP or Native DSD?
Any pops at the start of play with Native DSD?

I really want to try this DAC but only if it works with the sMS-200


----------



## elan120

whirlwind said:


> Can anybody tell me if Tim, at Kitsune Audio, contacts you before the dac is shipped or after the dac is shipped ?


Most of the time, he does, but not always.  In my case, all of the items he informed me of the shipment prior except the DAC, which one day, all of sudden show up at my door without notification, so the same could happened to you.  Try to communicate with him if you for sure want to have the notification before shipment goes out.


----------



## Robert Joe

elan120 said:


> Most of the time, he does, but not always.  In my case, all of the items he informed me of the shipment prior except the DAC, which one day, all of sudden show up at my door without notification, so the same could happened to you.  Try to communicate with him if you for sure want to have the notification before shipment goes out.



Whenever I order expensive audio equipment, I always ask the seller to send signature required.


----------



## bflat

I used PayPal so got shipment notifications that way, but Tim did give me a shipping estimate at purchase so I wasn't surprised when I saw the PP notifications. I would say the customer experience is excellent and I would put Kitsune up there with Red Wine Audio, HeadphoneLounge, Moon Audio, and ALO in terms of personal care and passion for their products. It's always great to talk directly to the owner and getting personalized service when it comes to options, accessories, and shipping.

As an aside, I personally love seeing sole proprietors doing well through online shopping and services. It wasn't too long ago that industry experts were predicting the death of small local shops. Of course those same experts didn't realize that internet and technology could level the playing field.


----------



## joseph69

flat said:


> I used PayPal so got shipment notifications that way


I received shipping notice via PayPal, as well as Tim.


----------



## whirlwind

Thank you gentlemen, for all the responses. 

I will contact Tim, just to make sure it does not show up while i am away on vacation.


----------



## bflat

whirlwind said:


> Thank you gentlemen, for all the responses.
> 
> I will contact Tim, just to make sure it does not show up while i am away on vacation.



LOL, Murphy's Law would guarantee delivery exactly when you are on vacation with just enough notices left before you return so they return to sender. Just like I was waiting at home all day to get my Laylas delivered. I literally took 2-3 min to go to the bathroom and of course that's when UPS arrived and left me a note saying nobody home to sign for the delivery.

BTW, welcome to the club!


----------



## whirlwind

bflat said:


> LOL, Murphy's Law would guarantee delivery exactly when you are on vacation with just enough notices left before you return so they return to sender. Just like I was waiting at home all day to get my Laylas delivered. I literally took 2-3 min to go to the bathroom and of course that's when UPS arrived and left me a note saying nobody home to sign for the delivery.
> 
> BTW, welcome to the club!




Ha ha, great story.
Thanks for the welcome, can't wait to hear the KTE Spring


----------



## deuter

I noticed the DSD gain is lot lower than the PCM if using NOS mode, has your experience been the same.


----------



## paulpaul

Hi Joseph, I'm also interested in Holo Spring DAC. I am using a Lampizator L4 DSD only DAC and upsample the redbook through HQP (Windows 10) + NAA (Windows Server 2012). What is your comment on this DAC? Any major changes required on my current setup?


----------



## joseph69

paulpaul said:


> Hi Joseph, I'm also interested in Holo Spring DAC. I am using a Lampizator L4 DSD only DAC and upsample the redbook through HQP (Windows 10) + NAA (Windows Server 2012). What is your comment on this DAC? Any major changes required on my current setup?


For me, this is my endgame DAC, and would highly recommend it. I'm using a MBP so there was no need to download drivers to use the Spring, but if I'm correct, you may need to download drivers for Windows…maybe other using Windows can confirm this?


----------



## paulpaul

How can I miss this? The seller is in my territory. I just browsed some of the info in this forum for a day. I may miss a lot of how you guys fighting to make it perfect. Any potential issues I need to be aware? Does the "pop" sound problem solved?


----------



## nick77

Just received my Level 3 and playing sweet music. What is the consensus on how many hours breakin? 

Currently about equal with my departed 2Qute but only a few hours play so far.


----------



## bflat

nick77 said:


> Just received my Level 3 and playing sweet music. What is the consensus on how many hours breakin?
> 
> Currently about equal with my departed 2Qute but only a few hours play so far.



Congrats! 500 hrs is recommended, but based on prior experience with R2R DACs, the first 200 hrs seems to to make the biggest difference IMHO. Also highly recommended to keep power on 24x7 since getting up to temp is necessary.


----------



## Ludique

I've had my L2 for two months, and it's still "about equal" to 2qute. With a tweaked Su-1 and expensive hdmi cable. That is a real compliment to 2qute.


----------



## HoloSpice

Any news about the upcoming May dac from Holo Audio?


----------



## joseph69 (Jun 18, 2017)

@HoloSpice 
It won't be out for +/- 1yr according to Tim.


----------



## Khragon

What is this May dac you speak of?


----------



## joseph69

Khragon said:


> What is this May dac you speak of?


It's another DAC Holo Audio is going to release in the future.


----------



## Tom Blake

Higher or lower end than Spring?


----------



## joseph69

Tom Blake said:


> Higher or lower end than Spring?


Higher.


----------



## Khragon

joseph69 said:


> Higher.


My wallet just ran away screaming...


----------



## paulpaul

I am a Lampizator L4 user. I can't find any comparison between Lampi's DAC and Spring. Any Lampi's users switched to Spring can share their Pros and Cons?


----------



## ericr

This week @Torq (thanks!) has loaned me his SU-1 and a 6 inch HDMI cable in order to feed my Level 1 Spring with an i2s signal.

Impressive!

The Level 1 has stepped up it's game.  I've spent too much on this hobby over the last while, so it looks like I may have to sell some of my other gear (sigh).


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

joseph69 said:


> Higher.



interesting. I guess I should wait for the new dac and see which should I get, that or the lvl 3


----------



## bflat

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> interesting. I guess I should wait for the new dac and see which should I get, that or the lvl 3



You won't have much trouble selling your Level 3 if you decide to upgrade later. It is up there with Schiit Yggy in terms of resale value.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

bflat said:


> You won't have much trouble selling your Level 3 if you decide to upgrade later. It is up there with Schiit Yggy in terms of resale value.



I am deciding my end game setup. I am gonna get the 240v because I am going back to my home country in less than a year. The shipping cost is something to consider. So, I might gonna choose either one I guess.


----------



## bflat

Impressions at 300 hrs of burn in:

Chain is Mac Pro -> Audirvana (No Upsampling) -> AQ Carbon USB -> Kitsune Edition SU-1 -> I2S -> Level 3 Holo Spring -> Kitsune XLR Cable -> iFi iCan Pro (Tube Mode) -> Headphonelounge T2 Balanced Cable -> Fostex TH900 MK2 w/Lawton Level 1 Mod (except ear cup dampening material is stock)

Shout out - Tim at Kitsune is an exemplary hi end audio company. I asked a lot of questions and he responded quickly and really took his time to explain his answers in great detail. I would put Kitsune up there with Red Wine Audio, Headphone Lounge, Schiit, Mr Speakers, and Lawton Audio in terms of customer support, audio knowledge and a shared passion for all things audiophile. I'm still amazed at how these guys run their business since customers are calling 24x7!

Impressions

Music - Jazz, Prog Rock, Folk, Pop (for burn in only LOL) 50% Redbook, 40% Hi Res, 10% DSD

Note - Except for my Mac Pro and TH900, all of the chain was purchased concurrently so I have to go with my imperfect memory and different components comparing what I had before.

Prior to my new gear, I was satisfied with a Teac UD-503 and ALO CDM combination with my TH900. What kept me from absolutely loving this setup was the following:

Bass was good, but too tight and fast for my tastes. Sounded more like BA IEM drivers. I knew the TH900 had more to give me here with the right chain.
Mids were forgettable. Mids were there but that's all I can say. I think most TH900 owners would agree mids are laid back and some would say recessed. ALO CDM with Mullard tubes helped a little here, but still nothing remarkable for the mids and I thought that was as good as it could be with the TH900.
Highs - the Lawton mod help to tame the hot treble of the TH900 and AKM4490 based UD-503 plus the Mullard tubes of the CDM smoothed treble further. But this is my main source of contention for the total chain - highs did not sound cleanly separated and the highest frequencies sounded smeared, especially in background cymbals and high hat. I didn't know where the limitation was coming from - the whole chain or a specific link in the chain.
Soundstage - really good, but wider than deeper.
Transients - good, but not great. Complex drum solos tend to get a little loose and out of control.
Thus, began my rebuild. I was really hoping that I would keep the TH900 because it's so comfortable on my head and based on others' impressions didn't seem like I was getting the full performance.

New Chain of Level 3 DAC (NOS mode) and iCan Pro (Tube mode) Balanced end to end

In short - exceeded all my expectations! All the things bothering me before have been addressed except for treble (see details below), but I definitely got more than I was expecting.

Bass - this is a very strong, masculine, but controlled bass. Extension is remarkable and gives the impression of physical sensation even at moderate listening levels. This is the missing part of the legendary bass of the TH900 I've been waiting to hear. There is an amazing amount of bass textures and separation that gives a 3D level of experience.
Mids - biggest surprise of all! Hello mids! I don't know how, but mids have come forward that is as close to a night/day difference that I think anyone would notice. This is not about warm, lush mids. No, it's about presence and focus. Thinking back to my old chain, the mids were diffused which sounded thin and recessed. The improvement is most noticeable with vocals. Front and centered positioning (or slightly left or right depending on how the sound engineering intended), but such focus and clean separation from the lows and highs.
Highs - best details I've heard in any of my prior equipment. All of the metallic sounds from percussion instruments or metal strings of guitar or piano are just amazing. Separation is crystal clear but layers accurately with the rest of the frequencies. Only one minor issue - yes, the TH900 is still a little hot in a good way. There are no distortions (except poor recordings) or harshness, just a little more quantity than is comfortable to me. It is very close to where I want to draw the line of sparkle to fatigue. Or put this way - I am perfectly fine if listening in the morning or mid day. However at night when my body starts telling me to go to bed, the highs start sounding fatiguing. If I go by EQ setting, I'm talking -1 dB at 8 kHz and -2 dB at 16 kHz. It's that close. I am going to revisit this at the 500 hr burn in mark.
Soundstage - very well balanced and I would describe as "immersive". Not intimate like I'm in the middle of the band, but a couple rows back of the stage. As a former musician, I prefer this as I love to hear all the technical abilities of each musician. Listening to Hi Res Rush brings joy to my heart thinking back to the days I went to their live concerts. Yes, I'm old LOL.
Transients - holy cow! drums are amazing. Most accurate presentation I've heard and makes me listen to drum featured tracks at sound levels that can't be good for my ears! This probably has more to do with the iCan Pro, but absolutely too good not to mention in the DAC impressions.
Other Comparisons

Unfortunately, the only other R2R DAC I've owned was the Gungnir MB and that was some time ago and it was paired withe Mjolnir 2 and my headphones were Mr Speakers Ether C. I did not get a wow factor and gave myself about 6 months to see if the sound would grow on me. I even went to the extreme of finding "holy grail" tubes. What all this had in common was I purchased on pure hype. Certainly a lot of hype was deserved and both Schiit and Mr Speakers are well respected companies. But I found the whole chain lacking in dynamics and emotions. Bass was short of physical sensation, mids were not as focused and layered, and the highs were really good but a little too tame and less detailed. This is all from memory. However, when deciding between keeping the Schiit and Ether C setup and tweaking further to selling while the market was still hot for both, I decided to sell with absolutely zero regrets. I did consider buying the Mjolnir 2 again but that was only because I still have some compatible tubes. Glad I didn't!

Conclusion

This go around, I spent an enormous amount of time reading up on impressions from multiple sources. There was no way for me to audition so I had to find common impressions and take them as fact. It's interesting that I ended up with relatively unknown components of the Level 3 DAC and iCan Pro. The latter being more on the recommendation from Tim at Kitsune. While my initial feeling of my prior chains was "hmmm", my emotional feeling now is more like "my precious....." LOL.

Thank you Headfi community and especially @Torq for the amazing impressions.


----------



## earnmyturns

bflat said:


> All of the metallic sounds from percussion instruments or metal strings of guitar or piano are just amazing.


Somewhat different chain

microRendu+LPS-1>SU-1>KTE 3>Neurochrome HP-1>MrSpeakers Ether C Flow​
listening to a recent acoustic guitar hi-res issue:







Guitar string dynamics are outstanding. The physicality of the instrument and of the playing come beautifully across as when I've sat front row a few feet away from a great player such as Julian Lage or Sérgio Assad (composer of the first work on the album).


----------



## whirlwind

Tim said my level 3 should ship at the end of the month.


----------



## bflat

whirlwind said:


> Tim said my level 3 should ship at the end of the month.



Almost there! Patience is indeed required for the Holo DAC. Your reward for waiting patiently to receive the Level 3 is another 500 hours of burn in. I just crossed 400 and I think I'm done as I can't tell any difference is sound past 300 hours. But I also never let my microwave finish it's timer so not the most disciplined person.


----------



## Energy

earnmyturns said:


> Somewhat different chain
> 
> microRendu+LPS-1>SU-1>KTE 3>Neurochrome HP-1>MrSpeakers Ether C Flow​


I reckon the setup will sound better if the LPS-1 was used on the SU-1 instead and a regular iPower on the mRendu. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## earnmyturns

Energy said:


> I reckon the setup will sound better if the LPS-1 was used on the SU-1 instead and a regular iPower on the mRendu. Just my 2 cents.


Thanks, but I don't have the time and patience to do the required power-supply surgery on the SU-1, and both my extensive listening and a very reputable reviewer have found the standard SU-1>I2S>KTE 3 setup worthy. Even the step up from microRendu+LPS-1>USB>KTE 3 to my current setup was rather small. In general, I stop at anything that requires taking gear apart. I did a lot of that back when I had lots of spare time and little money, but these days, spending a lot of time for teeny SQ improvements is a bad investment.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 10, 2017)

I thought mine would be waiting for me when i came home from vacation this past friday.

I e-mailed Tim and he said that 6 dac's were suppose to ship out July 1st.
One of those dac's showed some leakage in the transformer, Tim said my dac did not, but that he would not ship any of these out until new silver wire was gotten from the supplier and all 6 of the transformers were redone.

I commended him for the pro active approach. More companies should practice this approach, even though it must be hard to not ship something that test ok.

Tim also, said he would send me a $250 power cord and another gift for the delay in shipping.

This morning he e-mailed and said mine has shipped...I am thinking I should have it tomorrow.

Thanks for everything Tim!

I am debating whether to use RCA anolog interconnects or to go for digital coax interconnects.....what is everybody using with this dac.....not sure if there is much benefit using digital coax or not.

Any opinions are welcome....thanks.


----------



## ZGojira (Jul 10, 2017)

whirlwind said:


> I am debating whether to use RCA anolog interconnects or to go for digital coax interconnects.....what is everybody using with this dac.....not sure if there is much benefit using digital coax or not.



50cm AES/EBU 110ohm interconnects from balanced outputs  No particular reason, just had some and the length was good....

Just use whatever is easier to get your hands on. For such short distances, the differences should be minimal if any.


----------



## bfreedma

What's been the typical turnaround time (order to delivery) for recent buyers?

My 7-10 day delivery estimate from another vendor is entering it's 3rd month with no ability to get an ETA.  If Holo Spring has been reliable with their estimates, I'll likely cancel my current order and purchase a KTE.


----------



## jjk43

bfreedma said:


> What's been the typical turnaround time (order to delivery) for recent buyers?
> 
> My 7-10 day delivery estimate from another vendor is entering it's 3rd month with no ability to get an ETA.  If Holo Spring has been reliable with their estimates, I'll likely cancel my current order and purchase a KTE.


----------



## jjk43

Does anyone employ the I2S connection with a KTE Holo?  I would be interested in your listening impressions.
I do not need the Singxer as I have a PinkFaun streamer with an I2S bridge.
Thanks very much!


----------



## whirlwind

4 weeks until it ships is what I was told from Kitsune Audio, for a level 3, and that would have been right on if not for a problem with some wire....the delay was basically 1 week.
Mine should be here tomorrow and i am pretty pumped to get it hooked up and burning in.


----------



## jcn3

bfreedma said:


> What's been the typical turnaround time (order to delivery) for recent buyers?
> 
> My 7-10 day delivery estimate from another vendor is entering it's 3rd month with no ability to get an ETA.  If Holo Spring has been reliable with their estimates, I'll likely cancel my current order and purchase a KTE.



tim is a great guy and does his absolute best to exceed timeline expectations.  i would take whatever he says as the truth (and accurate).


----------



## whirlwind

jcn3 said:


> tim is a great guy and does his absolute best to exceed timeline expectations.  i would take whatever he says as the truth (and accurate).



I would definitely agree with this.


----------



## bfreedma

Thanks for the quick responses!

Sorry for asking what may be obvious, but is Tim the person I will be contacting if ordering via https://kitsunehifi.com?


----------



## whirlwind

bfreedma said:


> Thanks for the quick responses!
> 
> Sorry for asking what may be obvious, but is Tim the person I will be contacting if ordering via https://kitsunehifi.com?



Yes sir.


----------



## bflat

bfreedma said:


> Thanks for the quick responses!
> 
> Sorry for asking what may be obvious, but is Tim the person I will be contacting if ordering via https://kitsunehifi.com?



I would highly recommend you get the KTE SU-1with the Level 3 DAC.


----------



## ericr (Jul 10, 2017)

jjk43 said:


> Does anyone employ the I2S connection with a KTE Holo?  I would be interested in your listening impressions.
> I do not need the Singxer as I have a PinkFaun streamer with an I2S bridge.
> Thanks very much!



Last week Torq lent me his SU-1 and a *short* HDMI cable and the improvement was quite noticeable in comparison to the USB connection.  YMMV with the PinkFaun.

Read the Spring SAC manual carefully as there are several "standards" for i2s over an HDMI cable.


----------



## steppenout

I'd like to give another vote to Tim at Kitsune. Super guy, answered any questions I had, many within minutes of my email.
The KTE SU-1 is a fantastic piece of gear.


----------



## ericr

+1 

Kitsune's service has been excellent for me as well.


----------



## MacedonianHero

whirlwind said:


> I thought mine would be waiting for me when i came home from vacation this past friday.
> 
> I e-mailed Tim and he said that 6 dac's were suppose to ship out July 1st.
> One of those dac's showed some leakage in the transformer, Tim said my dac did not, but that he would not ship any of these out until new silver wire was gotten from the supplier and all 6 of the transformers were redone.
> ...



Sounds just like Tim! A true professional! Congrats...you should be mightily impressed (I certainly am).


----------



## MacedonianHero

jjk43 said:


> Does anyone employ the I2S connection with a KTE Holo?  I would be interested in your listening impressions.
> I do not need the Singxer as I have a PinkFaun streamer with an I2S bridge.
> Thanks very much!



I find the USB on the L3 KTE Spring DAC very good; but that said, the KTE SU-1 --> I2S --> KTE Holo Spring DAC really goes to a whole new level and I highly recommend it!


----------



## joseph69

bfreedma said:


> What's been the typical turnaround time (order to delivery) for recent buyers?
> 
> My 7-10 day delivery estimate from another vendor is entering it's 3rd month with no ability to get an ETA.  If Holo Spring has been reliable with their estimates, I'll likely cancel my current order and purchase a KTE.


7-10 days and you still haven't received it going on 3 months! I would definitely get my money back and deal with Tim at Holo USA…this way you'll know you'll definitely receive your DAC. Th lead time is usually less than 1 month for the KTE.


----------



## earnmyturns

MacedonianHero said:


> I find the USB on the L3 KTE Spring DAC very good; but that said, the KTE SU-1 --> I2S --> KTE Holo Spring DAC really goes to a whole new level and I highly recommend it!


Even the standard SU-1 helps, but one of these days I might get around to replacing it with the KTE upgrade.


----------



## whirlwind

Mine arrived a few minutes ago.  Using usb connection for now....the long burn in period starts now, lol

Giving it a quick spin.


----------



## joseph69

whirlwind said:


> Mine arrived a few minutes ago.  Using usb connection for now....the long burn in period starts now, lol


Congratulations on your KTE Spring DAC. 
I'm sure you'll enjoy it very much!


----------



## bflat

Burn in tip - make sure to have an equal number of tracks that are 44.1 and 48K clock based sampling rate. That way both clock crystals are used equally during burn in.

Since I also got a new amp when I got the Level 3, I had both running during burn in. However I wonder if it's necessary to have the amp turned on during burn in if the amp is already burned in. Anyone know?


----------



## whirlwind

Wow, first impressions of this dac is very good. I was a bit concerned about it being bright, regardless of what I read and was told. That is not the case, and the bass is killer along with some wonderful retrieval of details.

Just straight out of the box , this is a very nice upgrade for me.

I need to get foobar set up for DSD


----------



## joseph69

whirlwind said:


> Wow, first impressions of this dac is very good. I was a bit concerned about it being bright, regardless of what I read and was told. That is not the case, and the bass is killer along with some wonderful retrieval of details.
> 
> Just straight out of the box , this is a very nice upgrade for me.
> 
> I need to get foobar set up for DSD


My immediate impressions out of the box were very positive also, and it only gets better and better! The Spring DAC was actually the best upgrade I've ever purchased for my systems.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 14, 2017)

The native DSD is just simply killer.

44/16 flacs sound so darn wonderful on NOS mode.

I am going to set mine on NOS and just forget about it and enjoy my music.

Just using usb direct from pc, sounds great to me


----------



## Energy

I'm going to be downgrading back to the Spring. My Pavane has been showing some brightness issues. Getting real tired of it.


----------



## oneguy

Energy said:


> I'm going to be downgrading back to the Spring. My Pavane has been showing some brightness issues. Getting real tired of it.


downgrading huh?


----------



## Energy (Jul 14, 2017)

oneguy said:


> downgrading huh?



Yeah hehe. I've owned the level 1 and level 2 prior to the Pavane and have had a borrowed level 3 for a couple weeks.

I sold my first Pavane to a friend and the second one I bought ended up sounding completely different. It's like the HD800 signature edition or something.. Treble is overly harsh and hasn't gone away after 200 hours of burn in. Many times it made question my Utopia headphones until I connected it to studio monitors that I known for the last 3 years so that confirmed it was the DAC.

Now unsure whether I should just get a level 1 again or try out the Audio-gd R2R 7 DAC. Is there any other options out there for under $3000? I don't think..
I kind of didn't like the copper color accents on the Holo Audio Spring or the front panel display.


----------



## joseph69 (Jul 14, 2017)

Energy said:


> I'm going to be downgrading back to the Spring. My Pavane has been showing some brightness issues. Getting real tired of it.


In your case I would call it an upgrade, not a downgrade. Was the copper and display the only thing you didn't care for about the Spring?


----------



## MacedonianHero

joseph69 said:


> I would call it an upgrade then in your case.



Agreed.


----------



## Energy (Jul 14, 2017)

joseph69 said:


> In your case I would call it an upgrade, not a downgrade. Was the copper and display the only thing you didn't care for about the Spring?



In this scenario, yes, it would be an upgrade since this particular Pavane is dysfunctional.

When I upgraded from the Spring to the Pavane, the Pavane ended up sounding slightly better even when lacking the I2S input. Increase in price doesn't always offer performance gains, but in this case it was one of them. With similar belief to the majority of the community here I'm sure, I cared mainly for the sound quality that the Holo Audio Spring provided. DSD support didn't mean much to me as I did not own any DSD files and NOS was preferred as it sounded less digital.

I have visual issues (due to growing up with a family of designers) so the color did bother me as it was my most hated color, but absolutely nowhere close as to why I moved on from the Spring. If anything I was actually going to go for a level 3, but found a killer deal on the Pavane for the same price that ultimately lead to a slight increase in sound quality and aesthetic improvements.

Now that I use Audirvana, upsampling to DSD512 sounds like fun. I'm slightly confused however on the benefits of PCM upsampled to DSD.

*"This is the ultimate step in upsampling to send to the DAC the closest signal to the one used internally in its DAC chip immediately before the conversion to analog. This enables, with native DSD compatible DACs, to bypass all digital filters and processing done in the DAC chip by those done by Audirvana Plus.

The computer CPU is much more powerful than the DAC chip and thus enables to use much more sophisticated upsampling algorithms to give strongly increased sound quality."
*
_- pulled from an Aurdirvana Article_

Now from what I'm aware is that DSD is 1 bit and ran under various frequencies. Since NOS already bypasses the hardware filters thus being free from digital filters, wouldn't the benefits of DSD only be beneficial for 1 bit chip-base delta sigma DAC's? Are there more digital filters than can be bypassed even for R2R Ladder design that I'm not aware of? Also, is the impulse response of playing through DSD better than PCM?


----------



## oneguy

Energy said:


> Yeah hehe. I've owned the level 1 and level 2 prior to the Pavane and have had a borrowed level 3 for a couple weeks.
> 
> I sold my first Pavane to a friend and the second one I bought ended up sounding completely different. It's like the HD800 signature edition or something.. Treble is overly harsh and hasn't gone away after 200 hours of burn in. Many times it made question my Utopia headphones until I connected it to studio monitors that I known for the last 3 years so that confirmed it was the DAC.
> 
> ...



Interested the hear about your impressions if you get the R2R 7. I've been curious about that DAC. There is also the Denafrips Venus.


----------



## joseph69

Energy said:


> In this scenario, yes, it would be an upgrade since this particular Pavane is dysfunctional.
> 
> When I upgraded from the Spring to the Pavane, the Pavane ended up sounding slightly better even when lacking the I2S input. Increase in price doesn't always offer performance gains, but in this case it was one of them. With similar belief to the majority of the community here I'm sure, I cared mainly for the sound quality that the Holo Audio Spring provided. DSD support didn't mean much to me as I did not own any DSD files and NOS was preferred as it sounded less digital.
> 
> ...


I see, I thought your main concern about the Spring was aesthetics…glad to hear it is not. As far as DSD is concerned, I also don't have any DSD files, so I have no experience with using DSD mode. I do have a number of SACD's that a fellow H-F member made for me, and I've been trying to listen to them after importing them to JRiver MC-21 to no avail. Every time I try playback  I get a message saying "File not found" but I can see it was imported? I need to work on getting these SACD's to play because I am interested in hearing them.


----------



## whirlwind

joseph69 said:


> I see, I thought your main concern about the Spring was aesthetics…glad to hear it is not. As far as DSD is concerned, I also don't have any DSD files, so I have no experience with using DSD mode. I do have a number of SACD's that a fellow H-F member made for me, and I've been trying to listen to them after importing them to JRiver MC-21 to no avail. Every time I try playback  I get a message saying "File not found" but I can see it was imported? I need to work on getting these SACD's to play because I am interested in hearing them.




@MacedonianHero was right.  DSD sounds amazing on this dac, and mine is only a few days old....needs many more hours of burn in....but just wow on the DSD quality.

Too bad there are not more albums to choose from...I listened to this this morning and it is killer.....but 44/16 flac is wonderful as well.


----------



## joseph69

Yeah, I've got to figure out how to play the SACD's which I imported to JRiver, or find a DSD download I really like from HDtracks just to experience DSD.


----------



## earnmyturns

Energy said:


> Now that I use Audirvana, upsampling to DSD512 sounds like fun. I'm slightly confused however on the benefits of PCM upsampled to DSD.
> 
> *"This is the ultimate step in upsampling to send to the DAC the closest signal to the one used internally in its DAC chip immediately before the conversion to analog. This enables, with native DSD compatible DACs, to bypass all digital filters and processing done in the DAC chip by those done by Audirvana Plus.
> 
> ...


There's a whole world of magical thinking in the intertubes around these topics. First of all, "much more sophisticated upsampling algorithms" is marketing speak. "Much more" compared to what? Maybe to cheap single-chip DS DACs, but higher-end DACs use specialized processors that can easily beat your average PC for digital signal processing. 

In NOS mode, the Holo Spring does no digital filtering, whether in PCM or in DSD. As for "impulse response," there's a huge variance among DAC designers and other experts regrading the "right" impulse response, for example whether to optimize in the frequency domain or time domain. That's not really surprising, because our knowledge of human hearing is still very partial, both the basic biophysics and neuroscience and the range of individual variation. What is known is that human hearing responds in complex nonlinear ways to both frequency and timing, so anybody who asserts unconditionally that a particular kind of impulse response or filter is "best" is just using technical language to impress, not to inform. Honest designers state their preferences and reasons, and let your hearing make the choice. That's why I own both the Spring KTE 3 and the Yggy, two good products from honest, non-overselling designers. They are different, but the differences are interesting to me and both lead to satisfying musical experiences.


----------



## bflat

Due to my Mac Pro dying on me, I am temporarily using a Windows 10 PC. I was surprised that the SU-1 autoconfigured so I didn't need to find a driver. I am using JRiver as the player and it works great! I thought Windows needed special drivers and configurations. Either Windows found the driver automatically or Windows finally has USB Audio Class 2 support. If this keeps up, I may stay with Windows LOL!


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 18, 2017)

bflat said:


> Due to my Mac Pro dying on me, I am temporarily using a Windows 10 PC. I was surprised that the SU-1 autoconfigured so I didn't need to find a driver. I am using JRiver as the player and it works great! I thought Windows needed special drivers and configurations. Either Windows found the driver automatically or Windows finally has USB Audio Class 2 support. If this keeps up, I may stay with Windows LOL!



I am using windows 7 and Tim had everything listed at his website that was needed to download.  It all installed and worked flawlessly for me, for the dac and for foobar.

I listened for a couple of days before I installed my Foobar plugins so I could listen to DSD...these also went without much of a hitch, it was much easier than I expected


----------



## whirlwind

This dac is going to make me re-rip some cd's to flac, with less compression


----------



## Khragon

How would different flac compression level help? Flac is lossless and uncompressed to the same output regardless of compression level.  Lower compression would only reduce cpu usage.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 22, 2017)

Khragon said:


> How would different flac compression level help? Flac is lossless and uncompressed to the same output regardless of compression level.  Lower compression would only reduce cpu usage.




I have a few rips that have a static sound with this dac, I remember taking my setting to level 8 from the default level 4....I have no static sound in those.

These just must be bad rips, that this dac exposes more , I guess.

What you say makes perfect sense, lossless is just that. lossless....so i guess a different compression level will only change the file size slightly.

I will just re-rip in default compression then.

I will re-rip what sounds to be static and see if the re-rip helps.


----------



## joseph69

Last night was the *very first time* I tried to play a DSD64 file downloaded via HDtracks using my MBP>JRiver (MC-21)>microRendu (AoIP)>KTE SU-1 (i2s)>KTE Spring DAC. I have JRiver set to "YES DSD" for bit streaming as well as having selected "NONE" (as well as trying all other DSD formats) for the DSP-Format settings. The first time I tried playback the Spring displayed DSD64 and the SU-1 DSD indicator was also illuminated (which leads me to believe my JRiver setting are correct for DSD playback) but the music was accompanied by loud static. I powered both the Spring/SU-1 on/off and tried playback again (with the same settings) this time playback was fine, but the file was only playing at 176kHz? I tried for 2+hrs to get the file to play at DSD64 again to no avail…it only displays and plays the file at 176kHz?

I'm using OSX Mountain Lion 10.8.5 and JRiver MC-21.
Has anyone else experienced this issue (with or without) the same configuration I'm using? Am I missing something simple in JRiver settings? The thing that really has me stumped is both the Spring/SU-1 only displayed DSD the very first time I had playback (with static) and would never display/recognize it again. If so, I would greatly appreciate any experience in resolving this issue.

Thank you,
Joseph


----------



## joseph69

Update:
I've switched to USB input directly into the Spring (without the microRendu/SU-1 in the chain) and have DSD64 playback, but with the same static issues.


----------



## joseph69

Update:
Introducing the SU-1 back into the chain, I now have DSD64 as well as the SU-1 (i2s) DSD light being illuminated, but still have the static issue.


----------



## joseph69 (Jul 22, 2017)

Update:

I went into the JRiver format settings and switched (DSD) to (HDMI) with the above configuration and now can play the file without static, but only at 352kHz? Seems like the Spring/SU-1 aren't getting along when trying to play DSD?
Anytime I have DSD playback with either USB/i2s input I have music accompanied by static?

EDIT: I meant to say I switched the bit streaming from DSD to HDMI and got playback at 352kHz. I now switched the bit streaming setting to (none) and still have playback in 352kHz…so this setting seems to be irrelevant.


----------



## joseph69 (Jul 22, 2017)

Reintroducing the microRendu into the chain, I can now only play the file at 176kHz once again, and can't even get DSD playback.
Sorry for the consistent/consecutive posting, but I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this, especially when having all of my components in my chain, being they are all capable of playing 2.8/5.6 DSD.

EDIT:
I also have the box checked for "Enable Direct DSD Support" in my mR settings.


----------



## gameon

Joseph, I was also having some Problems at first with Static and not getting anything to pass through the SU-1 But after several attempts at rebooting everything and taking everything in and out of the chain, everything started to work, I'm also on a Mac, Tim says most of his issues are with mac issues.
I do know with your MicroRendu, you should be able to pass the signal, I myself am using Audirvana Plus newest version...
Tim wrote this to me below about my situation.

Also i2s cables are not hot swappable, so hopefully you did not plug or unplug them when either device is powered on. 
Try a power reset of all devices. And plug and unplug the input side of the intona also. Mac's often are picky with USB sometimes. Most of the tech support I do ends up being about 80% Mac and I wish I had a Mac so it could be a little easier. I'm not too familiar with Mac. And the only way Mac can do dsd is with DOP. And limited to dsd256 over DOP. Never can do native unless they update the os.


----------



## Khragon

joseph69 said:


> Update:
> I've switched to USB input directly into the Spring (without the microRendu/SU-1 in the chain) and have DSD64 playback, but with the same static issues.



This suggests to me the issue lies with the dac or your computer.  Have you try uninstall and reinstall the driver?


----------



## Khragon

Another thing, try another usb cable.  Last time I ran into static issue was cable related.  I'm using supra usb cable, no issue with dsd on my win10 machine.


----------



## joseph69 (Jul 22, 2017)

gameon said:


> Joseph, I was also having some Problems at first with Static and not getting anything to pass through the SU-1 But after several attempts at rebooting everything and taking everything in and out of the chain, everything started to work, I'm also on a Mac, Tim says most of his issues are with mac issues.
> I do know with your MicroRendu, you should be able to pass the signal, I myself am using Audirvana Plus newest version...
> Tim wrote this to me below about my situation.
> 
> ...


 I've rebooted everything countless times last night as well as this afternoon, and always shut down before doing any cable swapping as a safe practice. When the mR or any AoIP in the chain the Mac "MIDI" settings and JRiver "Audio" settings cannot be accessed, so I don't believe it has anything to do with the Mac, rather it is just easer to blame.  Don't forget, there are no drivers to install for the Mac to use with the SU-1. I'm waiting to hear from Tim at this point being I've spent a good 6hrs now trying to figure this out to the best of my ability.



Khragon said:


> This suggests to me the issue lies with the dac or your computer.  Have you try uninstall and reinstall the driver?


  As I mentioned above, I highly doubt it's my Mac because there is no access to any settings using AoIP so I hope it's not an issue with the DAC or the SU-1.

Thank you both very much for your replies, I do greatly appreciate them!


----------



## joseph69

Khragon said:


> Another thing, try another usb cable.  Last time I ran into static issue was cable related.  I'm using supra usb cable, no issue with dsd on my win10 machine.


I will try another USB cable as well as another i2s cable, thank you.


----------



## x RELIC x (Jul 22, 2017)

joseph69 said:


> so I don't believe it has anything to do with the Mac, rather it is just easer to blame.



I don't own the Holo Spring DAC, but it likely is the Mac as they don't use drivers for USB audio. DoP is still DSD and it plays as DSD, but it fools the USB interface in to thinking it's PCM audio, which is the only audio standard that is in the USB specification without a driver.

Since the Holo Spring supports DoP I'd say that you need to use DoP to play DSD files without converting to PCM on the Mac. DoP stands for DSD *over* PCM, not DSD *converted* to PCM. You still get 100% DSD playback as the DoP capable DAC sees the DoP flag in the signal and extracts the DSD data exactly from the PCM wrapper, and plays as DSD.

From the Kitsune tuned Holo Spring website (Bold emphasis added by me):



> DSD is natively supported for the first time on this R2R Discrete DAC
> 
> HOLO Audio is the world’s first to support DSD natively on R2R DAC, so far the only one. This is not the DSD converted to PCM before digital-analog converter, but directly by the discrete components of the DSD digital to analog converter. *Supported currently on MAC (DOP)*and Linux (DOP), and Windows/PC (Direct Native and DOP).



https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacgreen/


----------



## joseph69 (Jul 22, 2017)

x RELIC x said:


> I don't own the Holo Spring DAC, but it likely is the Mac as they don't use drivers for USB audio. DoP is still DSD and it plays as DSD, but it fools the USB interface in to thinking it's PCM audio, which is the only audio standard that is in the USB specification without a driver.
> 
> Since the Holo Spring supports DoP I'd say that you need to use DoP to play DSD files without converting to PCM on the Mac. DoP stands for DSD *over* PCM, not DSD *converted* to PCM. You still get 100% DSD playback as the DoP capable DAC sees the DoP flag in the signal and extracts the DSD data exactly from the PCM wrapper, and plays as DSD.
> 
> From the Kitsune tuned Holo Spring website (Bold emphasis added by me):


 I'm getting confused because I'm  not using the USB output from the Mac, I'm using an Ethernet cable from my Mac to my mR for AoIP with JRiver…so would be relevant to me, no? Forgive me as I'm getting burnt out from this at this point. Also, you can access the "Audio" settings in JRiver for DSD but only prior to selecting AoIP (otherwise you can't after selecting AoIP which is what I should have said in my previous post, sorry). I also have my mR set for DoP as well? I just don't understand. Thank you.


----------



## x RELIC x

joseph69 said:


> I'm getting confused because I'm  not using the USB output from the Mac, I'm using an Ethernet cable from my Mac to my mR for AoIP with JRiver…so would be relevant to me, no? Forgive me as I'm getting burnt out from this at this point. Also, you can access the "Audio" settings in JRiver for DSD but only prior to selecting AoIP (otherwise you can't after selecting AoIP which is what I should have said in my previous post, sorry). With that, I was able to use all available DSP/Format settings in JRiver with no impact at a all, and DoP is included in the choices as shown below. I also have my mR set for DoP as well? I just don't understand. Thank you.



I'm on the iPad and for some reason can't see the pic you posted. Also, I don't use Jriver, and like I said I don't own the Holo Spring DAC. DoP is also used for other interfaces besides USB but the reason it was created was to overcome USB's lack of recognizing DSD audio without drivers. There's not much more I can help with but I thought I'd pitch in to say that DoP may be the solution. I know how frustrating it must be but that's all I can help with, hopefully others can help more. I wish you luck.


----------



## joseph69

Yes, I understand you're trying to help me and I definitely appreciate it very much. I just can't seem to figure this out and to my knowledge everything in my chain is set up to play DoP.

Thank you again for trying to help out!


----------



## x RELIC x

joseph69 said:


> Yes, I understand you're trying to help me and I definitely appreciate it very much. I just can't seem to figure this out and to my knowledge everything in my chain is set up to play DoP.
> 
> Thank you again for trying to help out!



Hopefully, it's just that one needle in the haystack that needs to be set.


----------



## whirlwind

x RELIC x said:


> Hopefully, it's just that one needle in the haystack that needs to be set.




I was thinking the same and I am not much help ...I am using Foobar and a Windows 7 PC


----------



## joseph69

x RELIC x said:


> I'm on the iPad and for some reason can't see the pic you posted. Also, I don't use Jriver, and like I said I don't own the Holo Spring DAC. DoP is also used for other interfaces besides USB but the reason it was created was to overcome USB's lack of recognizing DSD audio without drivers. There's not much more I can help with but I thought I'd pitch in to say that DoP may be the solution. I know how frustrating it must be but that's all I can help with, hopefully others can help more. I wish you luck.





x RELIC x said:


> Hopefully, it's just that one needle in the haystack that needs to be set.





whirlwind said:


> I was thinking the same and I am not much help …I am using Foobar and a Windows 7 PC



You and I both know it's going to be the most simple thing I'm missing. This also makes it that much more frustrating.
On the up side, at least I can listen to it at 352kHz now.


----------



## MacedonianHero

joseph69 said:


> Reintroducing the microRendu into the chain, I can now only play the file at 176kHz once again, and can't even get DSD playback.
> Sorry for the consistent/consecutive posting, but I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this, especially when having all of my components in my chain, being they are all capable of playing 2.8/5.6 DSD.
> 
> EDIT:
> I also have the box checked for "Enable Direct DSD Support" in my mR settings.



Joesph, I'd try downloading a free 30 day trial of Audirvana 3 and see what happens. Select DoP, I've never had any issues with this.


----------



## joseph69

MacedonianHero said:


> Joesph, I'd try downloading a free 30 day trial of Audirvana 3 and see what happens. Select DoP, I've never had any issues with this.


Thanks for the advice, Peter.
I'm going to tackle this in the morning again being other have sent me a PM with the same issue and have solved it by disconnecting/reconnecting cables as well as powering on/off (which I did) but I'll try again. I also want to try a different USB cable from the mR into the SU-1 as well as a different HDMI cable. I'm sure I'm missing something simple…that's the way it always goes for me.


----------



## MacedonianHero

So far you've eliminated the SU-1, this will eliminate whether its the software. Do you have a PC you could try?


----------



## joseph69

MacedonianHero said:


> So far you've eliminated the SU-1, this will eliminate whether its the software. Do you have a PC you could try?


No, I don't have a PC…only my Mac. I have to agree with you that it is JRiver software at this point. This morning while switching settings/eliminating/reintroducing components in my chain and switching between  USB and Ethernet connections from my Mac, I found that JRiver was not at all consistent with playback. Even after rebooting JRiver many times. I'm going to take your advice and try the free 30 day trial from Audirvana 3 and see what happens.


----------



## bflat

After more listening across my music library I have to admit, the Level 3 is a very unforgiving DAC. I suppose that is a negative way to say that the Level 3 is an amazingly transparent DAC. I've pretty much eliminated poorly mastered albums from my collection, but I have a lot of mediocre ones that are more sentimental value than music experience. Now those mediocre albums sound pretty bad only because my "good" masters sound so incredible! I suspect I will start a long journey replacing a lot of my albums with modern masters in hi res or DSD. Ironic isn't it? There is so much time and energy spent on buying the gear, but I don't think an equal amount is spent on finding great recordings.


----------



## joseph69 (Jul 23, 2017)

OK, so I can't use Audirvana 3 because I'm still running 10.8.5 Mountain Lion because it runs excellent for me. I've stuck with this OS because I had nothing but horror when I downloaded Mavericks when it came out, so I swore I would never install another new OS on my Mac again.

I had seen that I could dowload Audirvana 2.2.5 but this version from what I've read doesn't support DSD playback.
A few weeks ago I was debating whether I should download Roon but I had already used the free trial a long time ago, so I would have to purchase it and my OS may not be compatible, I'll have to read their FAQ. I have 1 DSD download and about 10 SACD's which I imported 1 of to JRiver that wouldn't play either. So I really don't need to buy another software player when JRiver suits me fine for the 99% files I have.

EDIT: My mistake, I didn't use the free trial for Roon, it was something else so I'm going to give their fee trial  a go! And it's compatible with my OS.


----------



## bflat

joseph69 said:


> OK, so I can't use Audirvana 3 because I'm still running 10.8.5 Mountain Lion because it runs excellent for me. I've stuck with this OS because I had nothing but horror when I downloaded Mavericks when it came out, so I swore I would never install another new OS on my Mac again.
> .



You may want to rethink updating your OS. There is no official support for Mountain Lion so you may be subjecting yourself to security risks. Even if you don't have anything valuable on your Mac system, once your system is compromised on your own network, everything on that network is also at risk.

One alternative way to upgrade is to make a Time Machine backup. Then you wipe your old system and install a fresh Mac OS. After that, use Time Machine restore of just apps and data. Of course you will most likely find that some of your apps will not work on the latest Mac OS, but that is really no different than you finding out that new apps like Audirvana don't run on earlier version of Mac OS.


----------



## joseph69

Yes, I back up my Mac all the time to a G-Drive.
You have no idea what I went through for 1 month after "upgrading" to Mavericks, it was an absolute shame, and I wasn't familiar with a PC or Mac at the time, at all. I've been considering Sierra every now and then but only because I have my Mountain Lion backed up, and I can reinstall it again if I have any issues.


----------



## joseph69

I would like to thank everyone for their efforts in helping me with the DSD playback.
I'm now using Roon (free trial) and listening to DSD without issue!


----------



## whirlwind

joseph69 said:


> I would like to thank everyone for their efforts in helping me with the DSD playback.
> I'm now using Roon (free trial) and listening to DSD without issue!




Glad you got it sorted out.


----------



## bflat

joseph69 said:


> I would like to thank everyone for their efforts in helping me with the DSD playback.
> I'm now using Roon (free trial) and listening to DSD without issue!



Cool. Before you spend the dollars for the license, make sure you give JRiver one more try and check to see if:

Tools > Options > Audio > Bitstreaming > DSD

Otherwise, it will try to convert DSD to PCM.


----------



## joseph69

bflat said:


> Cool. Before you spend the dollars for the license, make sure you give JRiver one more try and check to see if:
> 
> Tools > Options > Audio > Bitstreaming > DSD
> 
> Otherwise, it will try to convert DSD to PCM.


Yes, I've been going into through those menus from the beginning and had JRiver set that exact same way, which is how it played the DSD file, but unfortunately accompanied with static. I'm definitely going to try JRiver before purchasing Roon. I'm thinking I might even upgrade from MC-21 to 22 or 23…maybe this is why I had static issues?


----------



## bflat

joseph69 said:


> Yes, I've been going into through those menus from the beginning and had JRiver set that exact same way, which is how it played the DSD file, but unfortunately accompanied with static. I'm definitely going to try JRiver before purchasing Roon. I'm thinking I might even upgrade from MC-21 to 22 or 23…maybe this is why I had static issues?



I ran Audirvana on my Mac (Sierra OS) without issue, but that system blew up so I'm running Window 10 while waiting for the new Mac Pros to come out later this year. On Windows 10 Jriver 23 would not play DSD via DOP with the out of box Windows USB Class 2 Audio driver so all I got was static with no DSD playback indication on my SU-1 or Level 3. I had to install the XMOS drivers from Singxer in order for DOP to work. Since there are no drivers for Mac, you may want to reach out to JRiver or Tim at Kitsune for help. Both respond very quickly.


----------



## MacedonianHero

joseph69 said:


> Yes, I've been going into through those menus from the beginning and had JRiver set that exact same way, which is how it played the DSD file, but unfortunately accompanied with static. I'm definitely going to try JRiver before purchasing Roon. I'm thinking I might even upgrade from MC-21 to 22 or 23…maybe this is why I had static issues?



Well, I downloaded JRiver this afternoon and got the exact same static with my DSD files. Had to reboot my iMac, KTE SU1 and KTE L3 Spring DAC...oh and delete JRiver . Audirvana 3 is brilliant and I'm sticking with it...though I have been tossing around the idea of Roon recently.


----------



## joseph69

bflat said:


> I ran Audirvana on my Mac (Sierra OS) without issue, but that system blew up so I'm running Window 10 while waiting for the new Mac Pros to come out later this year. On Windows 10 Jriver 23 would not play DSD via DOP with the out of box Windows USB Class 2 Audio driver so all I got was static with no DSD playback indication on my SU-1 or Level 3. I had to install the XMOS drivers from Singxer in order for DOP to work. Since there are no drivers for Mac, you may want to reach out to JRiver or Tim at Kitsune for help. Both respond very quickly.


I did reach out to Tim, but he doesn't reply on the weekends (which I understand) which is why I seemed help here. I think I'm going to use Roon for the 15 day trial, and if I like it that much, I'll leave JRiver. I just don't know if it's worth the cost to me being I have 1 DSD as of right now, but I do like everything to work as it should regardless.


----------



## MacedonianHero

joseph69 said:


> I did reach out to Tim, but he doesn't reply on the weekends (which I understand) which is why I seemed help here. I think I'm going to use Roon for the 15 day trial, and if I like it that much, I'll leave JRiver. I just don't know if it's worth the cost to me being I have 1 DSD as of right now, but I do like everything to work as it should regardless.



I've got several DSD recordings (of some of my favourite albums), so Audirvana it is for me....Roon though is tempting (but not cheap).


----------



## rocky500

I see Schiit Audio is offering an upgrade to some of their dacs to the USB to gen5.

It would be great if Holo Audio considered something like this for its Holo Dac owners. It looks quite modular inside from the pics I have seen.
They could build an updated board that uses some of the newer chipsets and offer it as an upgrade to its users?
I certainly would consider paying money for an upgraded interface.


----------



## Khragon

I think with the i2s interface exposed, the upgrade really isn't really necessary, with the exception of the output stage.  i2s is as direct  an access as possible I think.


----------



## joseph69

rocky500 said:


> I see Schiit Audio is offering an upgrade to some of their dacs to the USB to gen5.
> 
> It would be great if Holo Audio considered something like this for its Holo Dac owners. It looks quite modular inside from the pics I have seen.
> They could build an updated board that uses some of the newer chipsets and offer it as an upgrade to its users?
> I certainly would consider paying money for an upgraded interface.


The Holo USB sounds very good!


----------



## whirlwind

MacedonianHero said:


> I've got several DSD recordings (of some of my favourite albums), so Audirvana it is for me....Roon though is tempting (but not cheap).



I do not have very many DSD recordings, but it sounds so good through this dac, that I find myself buying an album, way more than I thought I would.  Guess I am sort of hooked on DSD


----------



## rocky500 (Jul 24, 2017)

joseph69 said:


> The Holo USB sounds very good!



I am using a Singxer SU-1 which has improved the sound well over the straight USB of the Holo.
Just added a Uptone LPS-1 plus capacitors to the Singxer for even more clarity.
Some say the new Uptone iso regen also improves the sound again.

So there might be some room and improvements to be had with an updated USB interface for the Holo. I could get rid of all the addons. 

Judging by feedback from some on the Schiit's new USB, it has made some of these extra addons obsolete.


----------



## whirlwind (Jul 25, 2017)

I have entertained the thought of getting the SU-1.

Then I think, this sounds wonderful through usb IMHO.

I have never had a single drop out using usb and I have listened to a decent amount of DSD

So it is hard for me to spend $400 for the SU-1 for better sound , and it may well be worth it.

I am saving that $400 for another pair of cans, at least that is the plan for now.


----------



## ericr

Khragon said:


> I think with the i2s interface exposed, the upgrade really isn't really necessary, with the exception of the output stage.  i2s is as direct  an access as possible I think.



This.  Might as well feed the DAC using its native signal.


----------



## rocky500

whirlwind said:


> I have entertained the thought of getting the SU-1.
> 
> Then I think, this sounds wonderful through usb IMHO.
> 
> ...



Yes that is the thing. These addons are not cheap at all. Well the good ones that is.
So if Holo Audio could offer an upgraded interface for say $150 or so, that did something similar to addons like the Singxer, then that would be a great affordable upgrade to users.
Currently Uptone devices and others like the Singxer SU-1 are a big investment, plus you have added boxes and cables.


----------



## joseph69

rocky500 said:


> Yes that is the thing. These addons are not cheap at all. Well the good ones that is.
> So if Holo Audio could offer an upgraded interface for say $150 or so, that did something similar to addons like the Singxer, then that would be a great affordable upgrade to users.


You just might be interested in this then.


----------



## rocky500

joseph69 said:


> You just might be interested in this then.


Something along that line (or better  internally would be great.
With the F1 you need more cables, plus box.
These new chipsets were not around I suppose when designing the Holo.


----------



## lukeap69 (Jul 24, 2017)

whirlwind said:


> I have entertained the thought of getting the SU-1.
> 
> Then I think, this sounds wonderful through usb IMHO.
> 
> ...


Joe

I have read many good feedbacks for a Schiit Eitr which will not break the bank and which you can return if it didn't do anything good on your system. I've read that only the SU-1 I2S connection is slightly better so it seems to be really good and at 179, it is cheaper than one of my GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## joseph69

@MacedonianHero & @bflat 
I upgraded to macOS Sierra 10.12.6 this afternoon and everything seems to be working fine.
Very good advice!
Thanks.


----------



## MacedonianHero

joseph69 said:


> @MacedonianHero & @bflat
> I upgraded to macOS Sierra 10.12.6 this afternoon and everything seems to be working fine.
> Very good advice!
> Thanks.



Awesome! Plus the added security features with Sierra, you should be all set! I love it!


----------



## joseph69

Now I can download the Audirvana 3 trial and compare it to JRiver and Roon. 
I did it because I went to download the Tidal trial today so I could use it with Roon and couldn't, so I just went for it!!!


----------



## MacedonianHero

joseph69 said:


> Now I can download the Audirvana 3 trial and compare it to JRiver and Roon.
> I did it because I went to download the Tidal trial today so I could use it with Roon and couldn't, so I just went for it!!!



I prefer it to JRiver...but Roon is something altogether different (and a bit more pricier). I'm still debating on whether to get Roon.


----------



## joseph69

MacedonianHero said:


> I prefer it to JRiver...but Roon is something altogether different (and a bit more pricier). I'm still debating on whether to get Roon.


Have you heard it?


----------



## MacedonianHero

joseph69 said:


> Have you heard it?



Not yet...but the GUI looks out of this world! Too busy this summer...might in the fall.


----------



## Khragon

Anyone tried up-sampling to DSD256 and DSD512?  I tried and got some stuttering.   Both with onboard USB and Singxer SU-1 via I2S.


----------



## gameon

joseph69 said:


> Now I can download the Audirvana 3 trial and compare it to JRiver and Roon.
> I did it because I went to download the Tidal trial today so I could use it with Roon and couldn't, so I just went for it!!!


Audirvana works great with Tidal,I believe you get 3 months of Tidal trial when you purchase Audirvana, Don't forget to set settings to Hi Fi in Tidal for Playback so you get the Hi Res files..


----------



## joseph69

gameon said:


> Audirvana works great with Tidal,I believe you get 3 months of Tidal trial when you purchase Audirvana, Don't forget to set settings to Hi Fi in Tidal for Playback so you get the Hi Res files..


Good to know.
I'm going to wait until my Roon trial expires to try Audirvana or I might just go for Roon, but I really should compare. I've already had to download the "Desktop" trial for Hi-Fi playback because I don't use Google Chrome, so I'm good with that, thanks. I haven't had the chance to use Roon +Tidal yet, what do I have to do to, select something to play via Tidal, and it will play via Roon? I'm asking because I won't have the time to try until later tonight.


----------



## bflat

joseph69 said:


> Good to know.
> I'm going to wait until my Roon trial expires to try Audirvana or I might just go for Roon, but I really should compare. I've already had to download the "Desktop" trial for Hi-Fi playback because I don't use Google Chrome, so I'm good with that, thanks. I haven't had the chance to use Roon +Tidal yet, what do I have to do to, select something to play via Tidal, and it will play via Roon? I'm asking because I won't have the time to try until later tonight.



Keep in mind that Roon versus Audirvana is an apples to oranges comparison. Roon includes cloud storage for all of your music plus streaming at native bitrates. If you need cloud storage and streaming, then it's a no brainer - go with Roon because Audirvana does not have that capability. If you are only look for a music player and you will use Tidal for your streaming, then Roon is complete overkill imho since it costs $120 per year or $500 lifetime.


----------



## joseph69

bflat said:


> Keep in mind that Roon versus Audirvana is an apples to oranges comparison. Roon includes cloud storage for all of your music plus streaming at native bitrates. If you need cloud storage and streaming, then it's a no brainer - go with Roon because Audirvana does not have that capability. If you are only look for a music player and you will use Tidal for your streaming, then Roon is complete overkill imho since it costs $120 per year or $500 lifetime.


Thank you for the advice. I'm pretty set on purchasing Roon after the trial...I just didn't want to jump the gun and mention it, though.


----------



## Energy (Jul 28, 2017)

Khragon said:


> Anyone tried up-sampling to DSD256 and DSD512?  I tried and got some stuttering.   Both with onboard USB and Singxer SU-1 via I2S.



PCM files (any) upsampled to DSD native format sounds the best on the *Holo Audio Spring*. Much better sounding than playing PCM native at any rate for a matter of fact.

The issue regarding the stutter is due to your computer not being fast enough since DSD encoding is very CPU intensive. There wouldn't be stutter if the program is able to utilize more CPU cores during it's DSD encoding process. Unfortunately programs like J.River Media Center does not offer multicore rendering or CUDA offload (uses help from the GPU). Due of that reason, HQPlayer would be a better choice as it offers these two features. Check my thread for more information: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,111561.msg771031.html#msg771031

Unfortunately for me I have already bought J.River Media Center so I cannot fathom to pay again for another program. Fortunately for me my computer is fast enough to play DSD512 (8xDSD) smoothly on J.River even when using a single core.

All mid-range computers from 2014 onward should be able to have smooth playback on J.River Media Center. Earlier computers (2013 and below) can too if they switch over to HQPlayer and utilize the multicore rendering feature.

If people are playing PCM natively or upsampling to 384KHz, give DSD encoding a try on the *Holo Audio Spring* and _watch your mouth will drop_.






If your computer cannot play 8xDSD (DSD512) without stuttering, try the less intensive ones like 4xDSD (DSD256) or 2xDSD (DSD128). Make sure to update your firmware to the v2.20 for DSD512 support.

*To my own personal findings:*
Playing PCM through DSD Native sounds too good to be true.
Playing PCM through DSD over DoP sounds great.
Playing PCM natively sounds good.

And no. I'm really not blowing it out of proportions. Try it for yourself and thank me later.
The level of improvements will strongly depend on your gear (headphones, D/A converter, amplifier, transporter, etc).

You're welcome.

_Cheers,_
*Thanh*


----------



## bflat

You can achieve DSD conversion by selecting OS DSD on the Holo DAC.


----------



## arnaud

bflat said:


> You can achieve DSD conversion by selecting OS DSD on the Holo DAC.



Yes, was wondering the same. Haven't tried software based conversion but am using onboard option sometimes


----------



## astrostar59

arnaud said:


> Yes, was wondering the same. Haven't tried software based conversion but am using onboard option sometimes



Do you think the Holo is surpassing your TotalDAC Six using the onboard DSD conversion? I heard the Holo on the HeadAmp Stand at Can-Jam. It seemed like a very nice sounding DAC and at this price amazing value IMO.


----------



## jjk43

I know this is a longshot...can anyone compare the KTE Holo with the LKS MH DA-004?
Thanks, regards


----------



## alphanumerix1

jjk43 said:


> I know this is a longshot...can anyone compare the KTE Holo with the LKS MH DA-004?
> Thanks, regards



This.


----------



## EElegances

Energy, you are claiming upsampling to DSD sounds better than NOS on Holo? Better, how? Or maybe I misunderstand the comparison. Previous reviews I've seen said that NOS sounds best. Thanks!


----------



## Benny-x

bflat said:


> Windows found the driver automatically or Windows finally has USB Audio Class 2 support. If this keeps up, I may stay with Windows LOL!


Windows new driver support and auto detect is better, but in the new Windows 10 update it did get USB Audio Class 2 support. Weird, eh?

My DAC need drivers, but still had a spotty connection. Frequently needed rebooting and then several times rebooting to get a good handshake and stable settings on the PC. 

But after the USB Audio Class 2 support a couple months back, all stable now and power cycle on the DAC gets a stable connection.

Strange times.


----------



## bflat (Aug 7, 2017)

Benny-x said:


> Windows new driver support and auto detect is better, but in the new Windows 10 update it did get USB Audio Class 2 support. Weird, eh?
> 
> My DAC need drivers, but still had a spotty connection. Frequently needed rebooting and then several times rebooting to get a good handshake and stable settings on the PC.
> 
> ...



I actually went back to the custom XMOS ASIO driver instead of Windows USB Class 2. Using JRiver, I find the ASIO driver to sound slightly more full/richer. I am a total noob in Windows audio but the difference sounded similar to what I experienced using a bit perfect player (Audirvana) instead of iTunes when I had my Mac.


----------



## Benny-x

bflat said:


> I actually went back to the custom XMOS ASIO driver instead of Windows USB Class 2. Using JRiver, I find the ASIO driver to sound slightly more full/richer. I am a total noob in Windows audio but the difference sounded similar to what I experienced using a bit perfect player (Audirvana) instead of iTunes when I had my Mac.



To tell the truth, I also believe this is the case~
Though having a common compliance standard is nice, it doesn't mean that standard is going to sound best. I'm also still using my DAC's ASIO driver, I just found that after the USB Class 2 enabling update, the DAC retained a more stable handshake than before.


----------



## Energy

EElegances said:


> Energy, you are claiming upsampling to DSD sounds better than NOS on Holo? Better, how? Or maybe I misunderstand the comparison. Previous reviews I've seen said that NOS sounds best. Thanks!



No. I am not claiming the Holo Audio Spring sounds better without NOS. If anything, I agree with everyone else that it sounds best without hardware upsampling (in NOS mode).
What I'm saying is that in order to get the best sound quality from the Spring, you should have it set to NOS followed by using a software like HQPlayer to upsample all of your music files to DSD.

The software takes your music files (PCM), encodes it to DSD, then sends it to the DAC.
Because of this, instead of using the PCM R2R Ladder on the DAC, it ends up using the DSD R2R Ladder instead.
By using the DSD R2R Ladder instead of the PCM one, the music ends up sounding SIGNIFICANTLY better. Like day and night almost. To me it's like going from Apple earbuds to custom molded IEM's

But don't forget. Using the DSD R2R Ladder on the Holo Audio Spring isn't where all the benefits come from. Utilizing the superior oversampling and modular setting on HQPlayer plays another huge part.

_Both JRiver Media Center and HQPlayer has DSD Encoding available and comes with a free trial so you should give it a shot. Thank me later.
Have your settings set to the ones I provided below.

*Holo Audio Control Panel Settings:*_


_*JRiver Media Center Settings:*
 _
Note: if music stutters while playing 8xDSD then your CPU is bottleneck. Try 4xDSD (DSD256) instead.

_*HQPlayer Settings:*
 _
Note: If music stutters while playing then set the M_odulator to DSD7 256+fs_ _bit rate (/Limit) to 44.1k x256 _(under SDM Defaults)


----------



## bflat

Energy said:


> _Both JRiver Media Center and HQPlayer has DSD Encoding available and comes with a free trial so you should give it a shot. Thank me later.
> Have your settings set to the ones I provided below.
> 
> *JRiver Media Center Settings:*
> ...



I'm curious to try this. I am using the ASIO driver that I downloaded for the Singxer SU-1, but I can only get DOP to work and not native with JRiver. If I try to use native, I get an error saying I don't have the right driver. Is there another ASIO driver?


----------



## Energy

bflat said:


> I'm curious to try this. I am using the ASIO driver that I downloaded for the Singxer SU-1, but I can only get DOP to work and not native with JRiver. If I try to use native, I get an error saying I don't have the right driver. Is there another ASIO driver?



You will need Windows in order to encode native DSD.

If you have not updated your Singxer SU-1 to v2.20 yet, do it now. It's needed to support DSD512.
Uninstall all previous ASIO drivers and try this one : https://kitsunehifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/HoloAudio_DriverSetup_v3.40.0_Win10.zip

What I sent works for Windows 10 and is the  XMOS Signed Drivers version 3.40.0
You should have practically the same settings as mine once you're in JRiver or HQPlayer as I also use Windows 10.


----------



## bflat (Aug 9, 2017)

Energy said:


> You will need Windows in order to encode native DSD.
> 
> If you have not updated your Singxer SU-1 to v2.20 yet, do it now. It's needed to support DSD512.
> Uninstall all previous ASIO drivers and try this one : https://kitsunehifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/HoloAudio_DriverSetup_v3.40.0_Win10.zip
> ...



Thanks! I also heard back from Tim so I uninstalled all prior drivers and reinstalled the Holo Audio drivers and used the ASIO driver from there in JRiver. DSD 512 works fine with no performance issues. Definitely sounds different than PCM NOS. Will give this a good listen. I would try HQ Player, but all my lossless files are ALAC and for whatever reason, HQ Player doesn't support.

For other SU-1 and Holo DAC owners running Windows, definitely use the Holo Audio Drivers. I initially ignored it since I thought the driver was only for the USB input of the Holo DAC, but it does indeed install on the SU-1. I guess the SU-1 drivers are for only for those folks who don't have a Holo DAC.

Edit - my initial impressions of the PCM to DSD 512 conversion is that the sound has slightly less weight compared to PCM. This adds a little more air and separation on the high end, slightly less lushness in the lower mids, slightly less impact in mid bass, slightly more quantity of sub bass. Basically, it sounds like a position a few rows back from PCM. Overall sound stage seems to slightly expand on music tracks that have a lot of instruments. I think it would be each individuals preference as to what sounds better and it will also depend on the genre of music. Keep in mind that the PCM to DSD 512 conversion is via JRiver on Windows so other players or converters may sound different.


----------



## leeg

You're correct bflat, PCM to DSD just doesn't sound good.  Try to just upsample all PCM to 354hz, and all DSD to DSD512.


----------



## jjk43

Greetings.
Does the Holo have galvanic isolation?
Thanks very much.


----------



## bflat

jjk43 said:


> Greetings.
> Does the Holo have galvanic isolation?
> Thanks very much.



Yes, but most owners choose to get the SU-1 for the I2S input of the Holo.


----------



## earnmyturns

jjk43 said:


> Greetings.
> Does the Holo have galvanic isolation?


Unfortunately, "galvanic isolation" is marketing-speak, it does not mean much technically. What I know is that microRendu>USB>SU-1>I2S>Spring is audibly a bit better than microRendu>USB>Spring.


----------



## thompsontechs

The bottom line is if you want the best source, dump USB and the computer period!  I don't care what type of crap filter you put in there, as long as it starts with a flawed source, it's only lipstick on a pig.

JT


----------



## jjk43

earn,
Thanks.
I have a PinkFaun streamer with an I2S bridge with 8 channels.  I am a MCH guy.  The streamer is very advanced and tricked out.  Currently driving 3 x Gustard X20 Pro dacs (modded), but thinking of moving up to the Holo.  Galvanic iso is a feature I am interested in.  I have a note in to Tim as well.
Thanks for hitting me back.


----------



## earnmyturns

jjk43 said:


> Galvanic iso is a feature I am interested in.


It's your money, so whatever. But "galvanic isolation" is a technically meaningless term used by salesmen to sell overpriced and unneeded gear.


----------



## bflat

earnmyturns said:


> It's your money, so whatever. But "galvanic isolation" is a technically meaningless term used by salesmen to sell overpriced and unneeded gear.



Are you stating that isolating power and ground from source USB output to USB input DAC does nothing? I am curious to know more details.


----------



## astrostar59

thompsontechs said:


> The bottom line is if you want the best source, dump USB and the computer period!  I don't care what type of **** filter you put in there, as long as it starts with a flawed source, it's only lipstick on a pig.
> 
> JT



Whoa, calm sir! Have you tried AOIP? That beats USB.And BTW I get better sound now with AOIP than my 4K CDP and others I have tried since which cost even more and are supposed to be good CDPs. Computer audio can and does sound damb good. But it takes some work and patience.


----------



## ReignofError

Please explain how Galvanic Isolation is marketing black magic.


----------



## astrostar59

earnmyturns said:


> It's your money, so whatever. But "galvanic isolation" is a technically meaningless term used by salesmen to sell overpriced and unneeded gear.



Hmm, maybe you already have 'galvanic isolation' using the microRendu? But in a USB input or external convertor it is used (by many) to explain they have separated the various circuits from possible noise transference, normally from the UBS power or PS in the device.


----------



## T Bone

ReignofError said:


> Please explain how Galvanic Isolation is marketing black magic.


----------



## AnakChan (Aug 30, 2017)

Further, this is off topic. If anyone has hands on experience of the iGalvanic on the Holo Spring (or along the SU-1 chain to the Holo Spring), please share.

Speculative posts without some practical justification are subject to moderation.


----------



## thompsontechs

astrostar59 said:


> Whoa, calm sir! Have you tried AOIP? That beats USB.And BTW I get better sound now with AOIP than my 4K CDP and others I have tried since which cost even more and are supposed to be good CDPs. Computer audio can and does sound damb good. But it takes some work and patience.



 I was not uncalm, I have enhanced my calm. lol The problem with the written word, an especially, that without context, is the inherent ability to read something into the text which is not there. It's one of the major flaws of the internet and lack of face to face. The point was, why try to clean something up when you may start with something which is much cleaner from the jump. I'm listening to USB now thu the SU-1 and Holo with all into the Ican with all. Why would you want to try and clean a dirty carpet, if you had a brand new one? Maybe a bad analogy, but USB will never be the cleanest source you can get and spending $$$$ to clean it up is okay, I guess, but why not take it from the chain???  If I had more funds, it would not be in my chain.... that's all I am saying. 

JT


----------



## thompsontechs

I have it all here, I would be happy to answer what I can, but my verbiage is somewhat lacking, if you can interpret fknewguy, PM me and I will do my best because that is my exact chain.

JT


----------



## earnmyturns

ReignofError said:


> Please explain how Galvanic Isolation is marketing black magic.


Best to go to a real expert who has been designing digital audio gear since before that was a business:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...en-robert-hunter.784471/page-79#post_12890745

Since then, he designed and launched the Eitr, which implements his principles in a compact and inexpensive way. Maybe I should get one and compare microRendu>USB>Eitr>S/PDIF>Spring with my current microRendu>USB>SU-1>I2S>Spring...


----------



## astrostar59

Isn't the SU-1 a YSB input device anyway? If what you are saying is UYSB has an issue, then you have ANOther device after USB, can't see much difference.


----------



## Clemmaster

ReignofError said:


> Please explain how Galvanic Isolation is marketing black magic.



Because it doesn't explain how the ground separation is achieved.
There are good and less-good solutions. Just being "galvanically isolated" doesn't necessarily translate to good performance (see TOSLink).

Schiit specifies which type of isolation devices they use and what they isolate for: electrostatic and electromagnetic isolation. 
The proof is in the pudding: Eitr rocks and - per users reviews - so does Gen5 USB.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Well, with my new Chord DAVE arriving, I'm sadly going to have to sell my beloved Level 3 Kitsune Holo Spring DAC. If anyone is interested, please let me know:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hol...ne-tuned-edition-level-3-flagship-dac.859223/


----------



## joseph69

MacedonianHero said:


> Well, with my new Chord DAVE arriving, I'm sadly going to have to sell my beloved Level 3 Kitsune Holo Spring DAC. If anyone is interested, please let me know:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hol...ne-tuned-edition-level-3-flagship-dac.859223/


Bittersweet, but I guess it's more on the sweet side for you! Congratulations and enjoy!


----------



## MacedonianHero

joseph69 said:


> Bittersweet, but I guess it's more on the sweet side for you! Congratulations and enjoy!



Definitely sad to let this go...but as I type this, my wife is making sure I'm packing gear up to sell to help subsidize the DAVE. Happy wife...happy life.


----------



## bflat

MacedonianHero said:


> Definitely sad to let this go...but as I type this, my wife is making sure I'm packing gear up to sell to help subsidize the DAVE. Happy wife...happy life.



You are indeed a lucky man. My wife still thinks my Holo DAC is just a fancy power bar and my Utopias are from Beats.


----------



## MacedonianHero

bflat said:


> You are indeed a lucky man. My wife still thinks my Holo DAC is just a fancy power bar and my Utopias are from Beats.



Lol, wives!


----------



## astrostar59

MacedonianHero said:


> Definitely sad to let this go...but as I type this, my wife is making sure I'm packing gear up to sell to help subsidize the DAVE. Happy wife...happy life.



Did you do any extensive A/B on the Holo and DAVE? If so, how were they different?


----------



## MacedonianHero

astrostar59 said:


> Did you do any extensive A/B on the Holo and DAVE? If so, how were they different?



The KTE Level 3 Holo Spring DAC is my favourite sub $5000 DAC. It is quite versatile and sounds so transparent. That said, 2 hours of A-B analysis last night says I made the right decision. But then again, the comparison isn't fair due to the large price differences between these two products.


----------



## bflat

So, the advice on "galvanic isolation" is to read the fine print to see what and how signals and power are isolated. But everyone seems to agree that proper signal and power isolation is beneficial to audio quality. This is good general advice for any hardware feature. I've recently seen where DS DACs are claiming NOS but don't see how that's possible. Then I realize there is no industry standard definition of NOS just like there isn't one for galvanic isolation. Caveat emptor!

Back on topic:

I went to the SF Meet a couple weeks ago and Headamp was there with a Holo DAC/SU-1, but paired with their GS-X MKII. They had Utopias with really expensive Kimber cables hooked up that. Honestly, the Utopias sounded thin and clinical. I brought my TH900 to the meet and tried those on the setup and same thing. I wasn't sure it was due to how the GS-X is tuned or if the Holo DAC wasn't warmed up (it was 10 AM in the morning). Then I remembered my initial impression of my Holo DAC right out of the box was how authoritative and strong the low end was. I was ready to just forget about the Utopias until I tried them on my AK SP1000. I was stunned with how good the Utopias sounded and decided to buy.

All I can say is that Holo DAC and iCan Pro going balanced into Utopias are AMAZING. So much fuller and really nice low end compared to what I heard at the meet. Treble is more electrostatic than not. Mids are full and a little on the lush side. Got some burning in to do, but this is really an incredible combo! I know there are a few folks who gave the "perfect" pairing with the GS-X MKII amp, but for my tastes, that was too analytical and dry for me. I also have Headphone Lounge T2 silver OCC cables which have consistently given me better low end and high end extension over stock.

If anyone is looking for a great amp pairing with Holo DAC, I would highly recommend the iCan Pro. It's the little amp that "can"......yeah I know that's not funny LOL.


----------



## earnmyturns

bflat said:


> All I can say is that Holo DAC and iCan Pro going balanced into Utopias are AMAZING. So much fuller and really nice low end compared to what I heard at the meet. Treble is more electrostatic than not. Mids are full and a little on the lush side. Got some burning in to do, but this is really an incredible combo! I know there are a few folks who gave the "perfect" pairing with the GS-X MKII amp, but for my tastes, that was too analytical and dry for me.


I've been using a Neurochrome HP-1 and MrSpeakers Ether C Flows with my Holo Spring KTE 3. The HP-1 has a somewhat analytical reputation, but not as much as the GS-X MKII (which I've never heard). Subjectively, this combo works very well for classical, jazz, and various kinds of African, Middle Eastern, and Indian music. Rich strings and wind instruments, realistic jazz double bass (I listen to lots of live jazz), higher frequency sounds from cymbals and brushes fast and detailed.


----------



## vlach

Just found this thread. Are there any direct comparisons with the LKS D004?


----------



## doraymon (Sep 14, 2017)

I'm about to pull the trigger on the Spring L3, but i still have a few doubts though.
I understand  its USB  input is the worst of all in terms of SQ, too bad this is the one I'm going to use.
I just invested an arm and a leg on a SOtM trio (sMS-200ultra, tX-USBultra and sPS-500) to improve the USB signal being fed to the DAC.
Do you think this will work good with the Spring L3?
Or am I wasting my money?


----------



## joseph69

doraymon said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on the Spring L3, but i still have a few doubts though.
> I understand its USB input is the worst of all in terms of SQ, too bad this is the one I'm going to use.


Where did you hear this? The USB isn't bad at all.


----------



## doraymon

joseph69 said:


> Where did you hear this? The USB isn't bad at all.


In Another forum which I can't quote.
However the guy was stating that the USB input was the worst among the inputs of the Spring, not that it was bad in general.


----------



## bflat

doraymon said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on the Spring L3, but i still have a few doubts though.
> I understand  its USB  input is the worst of all in terms of SQ, too bad this is the one I'm going to use.
> I just invested an arm and a leg on a SOtM trio (sMS-200ultra, tX-USBultra and sPS-500) to improve the USB signal being fed to the DAC.
> Do you think this will work good with the Spring L3?
> Or am I wasting my money?



Not necessarily. The Spring DAC has an I2S input and that is the recommended input. Unless you have a source with an I2S output, you will likely be converting USB to I2S. You can get an SU-1 from Kitsuni Hifi that does just that. The SU-1 only inputs USB, so your investment in USB signal integrity is still beneficial to your chain. I plan on adding a iFi iGalvanic to my SU-1.


----------



## chaos215bar2

doraymon said:


> In Another forum which I can't quote.
> However the guy was stating that the USB input was the worst among the inputs of the Spring, not that it was bad in general.


Seriously, what's up with this one-sided feud of the audio forums? (I know it's not you, @doraymon.) It would be so much more informative to just be able to post a link so we could actually see the comments being referenced. Instead we have to guess. Because reasons.


----------



## MacedonianHero

doraymon said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on the Spring L3, but i still have a few doubts though.
> I understand  its USB  input is the worst of all in terms of SQ, too bad this is the one I'm going to use.
> I just invested an arm and a leg on a SOtM trio (sMS-200ultra, tX-USBultra and sPS-500) to improve the USB signal being fed to the DAC.
> Do you think this will work good with the Spring L3?
> Or am I wasting my money?



I personally love it! The USB is very good (better than the Yggy to my ears; though I haven't heard Gen 5 yet for the USB implementation). I would still jump on a KTE SU-1 and use the i2S port to output from your computer. Really kicks things up a few notches too!


----------



## AnakChan

I'm getting my Holo Spring tonight (straight from HK with the upgrades that's akin to Kitsune's), and plan on using it with the iFI iUSB Micro 3.0. Would be keen on the SU-1 to go together too but it seems that the SU-1 also needs a PS upgrade - it never ends.


----------



## MacedonianHero

AnakChan said:


> I'm getting my Holo Spring tonight (straight from HK with the upgrades that's akin to Kitsune's), and plan on using it with the iFI iUSB Micro 3.0. Would be keen on the SU-1 to go together too but it seems that the SU-1 also needs a PS upgrade - it never ends.



Congrats! I love this DAC and its the best R2R DAC I've heard. The KTE SU-1 has the PS upgrade, but I'm not sure if Tim ships to Japan (and does a 100V version)? But amen on the last comment..."it never ends"!


----------



## doraymon

Thanks for the replies, I will be getting the Spring first and will try without SU-1. I can't afford another $600+,i already spent $2500 in the SOtM USB chain (Network Player, USB decrapifier and linear PS).
I will leave the SU-1 as an upgrade path...
It never ends...

On another note, did anyone try the Spring with the Cavalli  Liquid Carbon headphone amp?


----------



## AnakChan

MacedonianHero said:


> Congrats! I love this DAC and its the best R2R DAC I've heard. The KTE SU-1 has the PS upgrade, but I'm not sure if Tim ships to Japan (and does a 100V version)? But amen on the last comment..."it never ends"!


The place in HK where I get the Holo Spring also has the SU-1 with the PS upgrade. I believe they have a similar _variant_ of Kitsune's. Tim did ship to Japan before as another friend here got his HS/SU-1 package from Kitsune. However I thought I'd get closer to the source in HK.

So the HS I've got is also a Kitsune Level 3 variant - just with some different parts. This will replace my Invicta v1.0


----------



## MacedonianHero

AnakChan said:


> The place in HK where I get the Holo Spring also has the SU-1 with the PS upgrade. I believe they have a similar _variant_ of Kitsune's. Tim did ship to Japan before as another friend here got his HS/SU-1 package from Kitsune. However I thought I'd get closer to the source in HK.
> 
> So the HS I've got is also a Kitsune Level 3 variant - just with some different parts. This will replace my Invicta v1.0



Excellent! This is a brilliant DAC and when coupled with the SU-1, sounds very impressive! Please let us know what you think after you get it all setup.


----------



## doraymon

Order placed! 3.5 weeks to go...


----------



## joseph69

Congratulations, great move!


----------



## doraymon

Power cords ideas anyone?
Without going bankrupt?


----------



## T Bone

doraymon said:


> Power cords ideas anyone?
> Without going bankrupt?


I like the Shunyata Venom power cords.  I have them on all my headfi components.  "Reasonably" priced by audiophile standards.

Audio Advisor sells the Pangea line of power cords.  They're wallet friendly


----------



## DSK

I've also seen several people on various forums say they preferred the I2S input from the SU-1 over the USB input. In most cases the difference was described as small (though significant) and in most cases (but not all) they weren't using any "cleaning" on the USB path (eg. Regen, Intona etc). However, I have also seen a review by a respected member that tried the SU-1 via HDMI but actually preferred the USB input (and also preferred the SE output over the balanced output). 

I have a Spring (Level 2) on the way which I will use in NOS mode, initially fed by my existing NAA setup ... an Aries femto (SBooster PSU with SR Black fuse, Curious USB cables, Intona Industrial isolator). The Aries is fed by a pair of optical media converters for ethernet isolation/cleaning and those converters are powered by super clean power supplies that are also plugged into a Thor C2 Smart Filter Duo 2 that plugs into a dedicated line. 

I'm hoping I won't feel compelled to buy an SU-1 as I would really prefer not to add yet another box and signal cable between the NAA and DAC, as well as another power cable. In fact, I would really like to de-clutter! 

Does anyone know of an NAA that has a high quality power supply, an HDMI output and handles DSD512 natively? ... Such a beast could replace my Aries and it's external power supply, as well as the 2 Curious USB cables and the Intona USB isolator, in one fell swoop.


----------



## T Bone

DSK said:


> I'm hoping I won't feel compelled to buy an SU-1 as I would really prefer not to add yet another box and signal cable between the NAA and DAC, as well as another power cable. In fact, I would really like to de-clutter!



I am not a fan of Holo's USB implementation.  When I first took delivery of my Spring, I tried using it via "straight USB".  I wasn't impressed.  I put an Intona in the USB signal path and things improved.  ...but nothing beat the SU-1 and the I2S connection.  

I feel that the Holo Spring is a very good DAC "out of the box".  However, you can really get it to punch over its weight class with an SU-1.


----------



## KLH007

doraymon said:


> Power cords ideas anyone?
> Without going bankrupt?[/QUOTE
> 
> An inexpensive sleeper is the Super Stroke from Core Power Technologies, $125 for 1, $100 each in multiples, plays with the much higher priced cords.


----------



## whirlwind

doraymon said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on the Spring L3, but i still have a few doubts though.
> I understand  its USB  input is the worst of all in terms of SQ, too bad this is the one I'm going to use.
> I just invested an arm and a leg on a SOtM trio (sMS-200ultra, tX-USBultra and sPS-500) to improve the USB signal being fed to the DAC.
> Do you think this will work good with the Spring L3?
> Or am I wasting my money?




I am using my KTE Holo Spring L3 using usb.....I am enjoying it so much, that I have not really even thought about the SU-1 much.
I may get it after I get another set of headphones that I want, just to compare for myself.  I have no issues with usb at all, never had a drop out with this dac.


----------



## earnmyturns

whirlwind said:


> I am using my KTE Holo Spring L3 using usb.....I am enjoying it so much, that I have not really even thought about the SU-1 much.
> I may get it after I get another set of headphones that I want, just to compare for myself.  I have no issues with usb at all, never had a drop out with this dac.


My Spring KTE 3 arrived before the SU-1, so I was able to compare microRendu>USB>Spring with microRendu>USB>SU-1>I2S>Spring. With SU-1 it sounded a bit better to me, overall more clarity, lack of upper range hash, very clean transients. Yesterday I started comparing USB>SU-1>I2S to USB>Eitr>S/PDIF and I so far I've not heard much difference.


----------



## T Bone

earnmyturns said:


> I started comparing USB>SU-1>I2S to USB>Eitr>S/PDIF and I so far I've not heard much difference.



When you use the I2S input on your Holo Spring you're bypassing the internal AK4118A receiver circuit and pretty much sending the signal straight to the digital/analog converter.  Taking one more conversion step out of the signal path is where many owners perceive an improvement.  

In my experiences/testing - I've found the I2S to be the preferred input.  The differences were subtle, but in back-to-back testing; clearly audible.


----------



## earnmyturns

T Bone said:


> When you use the I2S input on your Holo Spring you're bypassing the internal AK4118A receiver circuit and pretty much sending the signal straight to the digital/analog converter.  Taking one more conversion step out of the signal path is where many owners perceive an improvement.
> 
> In my experiences/testing - I've found the I2S to be the preferred input.  The differences were subtle, but in back-to-back testing; clearly audible.


But with the SU-1, you are not removing any conversion from the signal path: what was done by the AK4118A within the Spring is now done by a comparable chip within the SU-1.


----------



## oneguy (Sep 16, 2017)

doraymon said:


> Power cords ideas anyone?
> Without going bankrupt?



Depending on your definition of going bankrupt: Anticables Level 3 or Ice Age Audio Silver/Silver


----------



## doraymon

oneguy said:


> Depending on your definition of going bankrupt: Anticables Level 3 or Ice Age Audio Silver/Silver


The AntiCables level 1 seem well built and within my stretched budget.
Not sure I understand the difference with Level 3 but I guess they are a good starting point.
Consider that my Liquid Carbon came with an Audioquest NRG X3 which is probably at a similar level with the AntiCables L1?


----------



## oneguy

doraymon said:


> The AntiCables level 1 seem well built and within my stretched budget.
> Not sure I understand the difference with Level 3 but I guess they are a good starting point.
> Consider that my Liquid Carbon came with an Audioquest NRG X3 which is probably at a similar level with the AntiCables L1?



I only have experience with them L3 so I can't comment on the L1. 

Honestly I'd give Ice Age Audio a try. It was only marginally bested by the Level 3 and its 1/3 the price. I did a comparison between those two and the Emotiva XIEC. I would have kept the Ice Age Audio cable but I went into the the comparison telling the manufacturers that I would keep which everyone was best regardless of price. Rick at Ice Age Audio is a good guy. When I decide to finish upgrading the rest of my power cords I'm going there. 

http://www.iceageaudio.com/audiophile-power-cords.html


----------



## doraymon

oneguy said:


> I only have experience with them L3 so I can't comment on the L1.
> 
> Honestly I'd give Ice Age Audio a try. It was only marginally bested by the Level 3 and its 1/3 the price. I did a comparison between those two and the Emotiva XIEC. I would have kept the Ice Age Audio cable but I went into the the comparison telling the manufacturers that I would keep which everyone was best regardless of price. Rick at Ice Age Audio is a good guy. When I decide to finish upgrading the rest of my power cords I'm going there.
> 
> http://www.iceageaudio.com/audiophile-power-cords.html



Thanks for the hint, I will give the SILVER/SILVER a try (that's the one you tested right?)


----------



## oneguy

doraymon said:


> Thanks for the hint, I will give the SILVER/SILVER a try (that's the one you tested right?)



Correct.


----------



## AnakChan

Just got my Holo Spring on Friday and hooked it up today. Needed an emergency make-shelf as I was running outta room on my table. This Holo Spring is by Wildism Audio in Hong Kong. It has its own "Wild Stage Special Edition" (it's own Level 3 I guess). I opted out of the AudioNote Trans-280 Pure Silver Digital Transformer to save a little bit of $$$ as that's for AES use only and I don't use AES.

Right now, it's USB driven with the iFI Audio iUSB Micro 3.0 (on the right side of the Electra).


----------



## thyname

Anyone using Holo Spring on a home audio stereo setup (no headphones- just speakers)? With Amp, and speakers?

If so, which preamp do you use for Volume control?


----------



## leeg

LTA MZ 2
https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/mz2mz2-s


----------



## tkcha

I am using Allnic Audio T-2000 25th AN,  KT150 tube base Intergrated Amp which put out 100 watts pure tube music to Kef LS50;Blade2,Himsound A33,Impress and DIY speaker using morel tweeter,5 inch Focal Mid,Two 8 inch Focal Woofer with HMDF cabinet among them I rotate speakers for my feeling. My previous DAC was PS audio PW MK2 and SS PRE,POWER amp.I also have Aurender N100h 4TB, Intona together with First KTE 3 unit I have since last September. I like spring more THAN DAVE for DSD sound for my speaker system.  and also ordering Mivera Audio Music server,Streamer, DAC for hopely upgrade from holo spring I will keep both.


----------



## thyname

leeg said:


> LTA MZ 2
> https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/mz2mz2-s



Were you replying to me for the preamp?

This has no remote, no Balanced outputs XLR, and outputs for subs.

Schiit Freya perhaps?


----------



## tkcha

do not skimp on pre amp schiit only do so much if you dont have budget still about 2 grand there are so many more option available which Parasound JC 2+,Cary Audio SLP 03,Don Sach Preamp or some higher price preamp you can have second hand markect for much better price.


----------



## thyname

tkcha said:


> do not skimp on pre amp schiit only do so much if you dont have budget still about 2 grand there are so many more option available which Parasound JC 2+,Cary Audio SLP 03,Don Sach Preamp or some higher price preamp you can have second hand markect for much better price.



I just need a passive preamp, just for volume control.


----------



## tkcha

For passive preamp look at Tortuga Audio,Khozmo Acustic,Music First Audio lower entry level preamp  all good preamp.


----------



## remoss

In a few weeks I have the opportunity to compare the R2R7 and the R2R HE7. I am curious about the differences!


----------



## doraymon

remoss said:


> In a few weeks I have the opportunity to compare the R2R7 and the R2R HE7. I am curious about the differences!


R2R7 is the Audio-gd, but what about the HE7?


----------



## remoss

I'm so sorry, posted in the wrong thread. 

Btw, the R2R HE7 is also an Audio GD dac: http://www.audio-gd.com/HE/R2R7HE/R2R7HEEN.htm


----------



## doraymon

remoss said:


> I'm so sorry, posted in the wrong thread.
> 
> Btw, the R2R HE7 is also an Audio GD dac: http://www.audio-gd.com/HE/R2R7HE/R2R7HEEN.htm



It was interesting anyway!


----------



## doraymon

So the Spring KTE and the Ice Age Silver/Silver power cord are ordered but now I am left with a big doubt... KTE SU-1 or not?

As I already posted earlier I just spent a fortune on an sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra (both powered by an sPS-500) in order to get the cleanest possible USB signal to feed my DAC.
Switching from the Hugo (sold) to the Spring KTE I find out that the I2S input has advantages over the USB. I will not be able to audition by myself so I will have to trust what I read.

I am very reluctant to add another box between source and DAC and I am afraid that the "reconstructed" and clean signal output by the tX-USBultra could be even degraded when passing through the KTE S-U1.
I don't know the physics behind all the signal manipulation so it's really hard for me to decide...


----------



## joseph69 (Sep 19, 2017)

doraymon said:


> So the Spring KTE and the Ice Age Silver/Silver power cord are ordered but now I am left with a big doubt... KTE SU-1 or not?


Listen to what you have without the SU-1 and if you like what you're hearing then you're good.  

I personally didn't care for the SU-1 in my chain (with my system). I then decided to purchase the KTE SU-1 when it came out and too me the KTE was a real nice improvement.


----------



## tkcha

I have Aurender N100h, Intona with holo spring 3 KTE without I2s connection and sound pretty good its your source. Dirty and noise source may need Su-1 but your SOTM stuff good enough without Su-1 and I2s for me, my listening room clean and neat looking other than MAD Science Lab no more another small box please


----------



## bflat

doraymon said:


> So the Spring KTE and the Ice Age Silver/Silver power cord are ordered but now I am left with a big doubt... KTE SU-1 or not?
> 
> As I already posted earlier I just spent a fortune on an sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra (both powered by an sPS-500) in order to get the cleanest possible USB signal to feed my DAC.
> Switching from the Hugo (sold) to the Spring KTE I find out that the I2S input has advantages over the USB. I will not be able to audition by myself so I will have to trust what I read.
> ...



One way to look at this is that all the USB and digital connectivity equipment you own will stay with you much longer than any particular DAC. While there could be advances in the future for digital connectivity, it will likely be a much longer technology cycle. I think it's analogous to digital cameras. I have upgraded my DSLR at least 5-6 times, but I still have every single lens that I purchased during that time. I know the physics in lens design has remained relatively unchanged in the past 50+ years while the image capture technology changed every 2-3 years.

My own opinion is that USB is here to stay, but if there is a "better way", I believe it will be wireless technology which completely eliminates noise transmission due to power signals. However, I don't think it will be with wifi technology, but rather a low power, low bandwidth, close proximity technology similar to Blue Tooth and Apple W1.


----------



## tkcha

Almost everyone say holo have bad usb board and inferior clock and claim I2s is must but my case usb with clean source result fantastic sound. Few month ago ㅑcompare  chord Dave, Bricasti M1 SE side by side. System contain Zesto Audio Pre,power amp drive Martin Logan Renaisance ESL 15A speakers every DAC connect to Antipode server.     All three DACs sound fantastic very little difference but on PCM, dave better than both holo,M1se  but DSD Holo was the best. For me DSD is very important. I owns more than 2500 albums.   I was VERY disappointed from Dave DSD sound.  so 2500$ holo spring can compete with 10000$ DACs but Hopely Next May DAC will be come out with better usb board,clock and all that magic touch can compete with even higher price range DAC.


----------



## earnmyturns (Sep 19, 2017)

doraymon said:


> So the Spring KTE and the Ice Age Silver/Silver power cord are ordered but now I am left with a big doubt... KTE SU-1 or not?
> 
> As I already posted earlier I just spent a fortune on an sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra (both powered by an sPS-500) in order to get the cleanest possible USB signal to feed my DAC.
> Switching from the Hugo (sold) to the Spring KTE I find out that the I2S input has advantages over the USB. I will not be able to audition by myself so I will have to trust what I read.
> ...


My comparisons  (all PCM from 44.1/16 to 192/24, via Roon):

1) microRendu+UpTone LPS-1>USB>...
2) microRendu+UpTone LPS-1>USB>(non-KTE SU-1)>I2S>...
3) Allo USBridge>USB>Schiit Eitr>S/PDIF (Nordost Blue Haven coax)>...

1) sounds a bit harsher, fuzzier than 2) in mid-high frequencies. So far, I've not been able to hear much of a difference between 3) and 2). 3) costs ~400 USD, 2) ~1400 USD. YMMV.


----------



## whirlwind

tkcha said:


> Almost everyone say holo have bad usb board and inferior clock and claim I2s is must but my case usb with clean source result fantastic sound. Few month ago ㅑcompare  chord Dave, Bricasti M1 SE side by side. System contain Zesto Audio Pre,power amp drive Martin Logan Renaisance ESL 15A speakers every DAC connect to Antipode server.     All three DACs sound fantastic very little difference but on PCM, dave better than both holo,M1se  but DSD Holo was the best. For me DSD is very important. I owns more than 2500 albums.   I was VERY disappointed from Dave DSD sound.  so 2500$ holo spring can compete with 10000$ DACs but Hopely Next May DAC will be come out with better usb board,clock and all that magic touch can compete with even higher price range DAC.




I am using usb with no SU-1 in the chain....DSD sounds spectacular with this dac.


----------



## doraymon

Good to know guys, I will try to refrain from ordering the SU-1 immediately and enjoy the DAC from USB with my SOtM chain.

I hate this hobby, I just can't stop looking for more and better...
I managed to take some rest with my Hugo which gave me almost two years of peace where I just enjoyed music.
Now that I sold it the mad race started again lol!


----------



## tkcha

Hi  Whirlwind now you got some DSD albums I gess. Now time to try some dsd 128,256 you will be more impress and dont forget DXD . Those Files sound sublime. Happy Listening !!


----------



## tkcha

Hi Doraymon make sure get some DSD  IT is must have. All Chord DACs DSD sound mediocre but KTE sound spectacular. I believe in DSD.


----------



## doraymon

tkcha said:


> Hi Doraymon make sure get some DSD  IT is must have. All Chord DACs DSD sound mediocre but KTE sound spectacular. I believe in DSD.


Will do! I can't wait...


----------



## tkcha




----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I am considering getting the spring dac LVL 3. I will be back to Malaysia after I finished my degree here in United States. Should I get a new 240v and or a used 110v that cost less $500? I am wondering if a transformer would do the trick.


----------



## jcn3

thyname said:


> I just need a passive preamp, just for volume control.



i use a luminous audio axiom ii for a passive pre -- i've been very pleased with the axiom ii xlr: https://luminousaudio.com/collections/axiom-ii-passive-preamp


----------



## thyname

jcn3 said:


> i use a luminous audio axiom ii for a passive pre -- i've been very pleased with the axiom ii xlr: https://luminousaudio.com/collections/axiom-ii-passive-preamp



Very interesting. Thanks!

It looks like the only option with Remote is only RCA:

https://luminousaudio.com/collectio...-ii-passive-preamp-walker-mod-with-remote-rca

I need XLR for the Amp, and two RCAs for the two subs, and Remote.

Possible?


----------



## jcn3

thyname said:


> Very interesting. Thanks!
> 
> It looks like the only option with Remote is only RCA:
> 
> ...



i'm no expert, but that sounds like a lot for a passive pre to handle -- remember all a passive pre does is attenuate the signal.  if you want three line outs, the output from the dac would be split between the three devices and likely would sound pretty flat (my guess).

if those are your needs, i think you need a traditional active pre-amp.


----------



## AnakChan

doraymon said:


> Good to know guys, I will try to refrain from ordering the SU-1 immediately and enjoy the DAC from USB with my SOtM chain.
> 
> I hate this hobby, I just can't stop looking for more and better...
> I managed to take some rest with my Hugo which gave me almost two years of peace where I just enjoyed music.
> Now that I sold it the mad race started again lol!


I couldn't resist. The posts and words here have been too strong, I crumbled and ordered a std SU-1 (along with a short 0.3m Wire World Starlight 6 HDMI) to couple with my new Holo Spring. The 6 was going cheap since the 7's out.

Back to the Holo Spring, it's a welcome improvement over my Invicta 1.0. Switching back 'n forth between the two, the Invicta sounded somewhat "flat" dimensionally with a stronger emphasis on upper midrange and trebles (I guess this is typical ES9018 signature), whilst the Holo Spring has a tad more warmth and wholesome lower end. I'm hoping the SU-1 to clean up the signal just a little more (currently using the iFI iUSB Micro 3.0 into the Holo Spring). Haven't decided if I'll daisy chain the computer -> iFI iUSB Micro 3.0 -> SU-1 - I2S -> Holo Spring, or just straight from the computer -> Su-1 - I2S -> Holo Spring.


----------



## doraymon

AnakChan said:


> I couldn't resist. The posts and words here have been too strong, I crumbled and ordered a std SU-1 (along with a short 0.3m Wire World Starlight 6 HDMI) to couple with my new Holo Spring. The 6 was going cheap since the 7's out.
> 
> Back to the Holo Spring, it's a welcome improvement over my Invicta 1.0. Switching back 'n forth between the two, the Invicta sounded somewhat "flat" dimensionally with a stronger emphasis on upper midrange and trebles (I guess this is typical ES9018 signature), whilst the Holo Spring has a tad more warmth and wholesome lower end. I'm hoping the SU-1 to clean up the signal just a little more (currently using the iFI iUSB Micro 3.0 into the Holo Spring). Haven't decided if I'll daisy chain the computer -> iFI iUSB Micro 3.0 -> SU-1 - I2S -> Holo Spring, or just straight from the computer -> Su-1 - I2S -> Holo Spring.


Yes it would be interesting to know if you heard any differences by adding/removing the USB purifier to the SU-1. Let us know.


----------



## AnakChan

This is -straight out of the box- setup (the iFI iUSB Micro 3.0 has 2x USB out) :-

Computer -> IFI iUSB Micro 3.0 -----> (1) SU-1 -----> Holo Spring
                                                      |     (2) direct    |
                                                      ---------------------

So all I have to do at the moment is to use the Holo Spring to switch between I2S and USB, and for -now- the SU-1 sounds a little more holographic, a little more lower (bass) end, but overall sounds a little rough & gritty all round (from bass -> treble region). I think the SU-1 is going to need _a lot of burn in_. My Holo Spring has had over 400 hrs (mostly done by my friend before he shipped it to me).


----------



## doraymon

From the Kitsune HiFi site I read for the Spring the following:
"The output voltage is 2.5 Vrms for single ended output and 5 Vrms for balanced output"

5V for the balanced output? That's a lot!!

I know of headphone amps clipping above 3V...


----------



## theveterans

^ Balanced are 2x the amount of SE. For Yggdrasil it's 4V since the SE is 2V output


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I have my spring dac level 3 incoming in couple days


----------



## doraymon

theveterans said:


> ^ Balanced are 2x the amount of SE. For Yggdrasil it's 4V since the SE is 2V output


My Hugo at line out level was 3V and I had to keep the volume of my Liquid Carbon amp at 25%.


----------



## doraymon

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I have my spring dac level 3 incoming in couple days


Good for you man! How long from order to shipping date?


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

doraymon said:


> Good for you man! How long from order to shipping date?



I bought from a head-fier actually, he'll ship it tomorrow. So, it might be here in my possession early next week.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I already have wyrd. I am not sure if I should get the SU-1.


----------



## theveterans

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I already have wyrd. I am not sure if I should get the SU-1.



I2S input is the best for the Spring as that input goes straight to DAC rather than to a receiver chip (Digital Interface Receiver) since the receiver chip in the SU-1 is the one doing the processing.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

theveterans said:


> I2S input is the best for the Spring as that input goes straight to DAC rather than to a receiver chip (Digital Interface Receiver) since the receiver chip in the SU-1 is the one doing the processing.



I've read a lot of good things about I2S input but what does it make to the sound quality? A cleaner data transfer?


----------



## theveterans

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I've read a lot of good things about I2S input but what does it make to the sound quality? A cleaner data transfer?



Purer, less jitter, if that make sense, because the data is only converted once instead of twice like USB to SPDIF (the SPDIF will get converted to I2S inside the Spring before it goes to the DAC ladder). Many feel that the USB receiver chip inside the Holo is inferior to the ones in the SU-1.


----------



## doraymon (Sep 22, 2017)

theveterans said:


> Purer, less jitter, if that make sense, because the data is only converted once instead of twice like USB to SPDIF (the SPDIF will get converted to I2S inside the Spring before it goes to the DAC ladder). Many feel that the USB receiver chip inside the Holo is inferior to the ones in the SU-1.


So does this mean that no matter how good and clean is the signal you feed the USB of the Spring DAC with, the signal will be ruined by a poor conversion to I2S inside the Spring?

= I can throw to the bin $2000+ I invested to clean my USB path?


----------



## theveterans

doraymon said:


> So does this mean that no matter how good and clean is the signal you feed the USB of the Spring DAC with, the signal will be ruined by a poor conversion to I2S inside the Spring?
> 
> = I can throw to the bin $2000+ I invested to clean my USB path?



This is subjective keep in mind. I believe that the DIR chip in the Spring is already very good. it’s just that the SU-1 has decrapifier implementations inside aside from its internal DIR chip that converts to I2S. Also Keep in mind that source quality (not referring to hi-res files, but the hardware) matters too so the better the source the better the sound regardless if youse the su1 or other decrapifier chains


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

theveterans said:


> This is subjective keep in mind. I believe that the DIR chip in the Spring is already very good. it’s just that the SU-1 has decrapifier implementations inside aside from its internal DIR chip that converts to I2S. Also Keep in mind that source quality (not referring to hi-res files, but the hardware) matters too so the better the source the better the sound regardless if youse the su1 or other decrapifier chains



Thanks for the explanation! I'll try to enjoy the spring dac first without SU-1 and I can always add that up to the chain in the future


----------



## doraymon

theveterans said:


> This is subjective keep in mind. I believe that the DIR chip in the Spring is already very good. it’s just that the SU-1 has decrapifier implementations inside aside from its internal DIR chip that converts to I2S. Also Keep in mind that source quality (not referring to hi-res files, but the hardware) matters too so the better the source the better the sound regardless if youse the su1 or other decrapifier chains


Thanks, but I know myself, now I have this bug in my head and I'll never stop thinking about it unless I try it!
Maybe amazon can help...


----------



## elan120

AnakChan said:


> This is -straight out of the box- setup (the iFI iUSB Micro 3.0 has 2x USB out) :-
> 
> Computer -> IFI iUSB Micro 3.0 -----> (1) SU-1 -----> Holo Spring
> |     (2) direct    |
> ...



I also have been through similar set up.  I started out with iFI iUSB Micro 3.0 to Holo Spring, while that was good, but later with SU-1 added after the iUSB Micro 3.0 was little better. and once I replaced the cable with iFI Gemini (to separate USB signal and USB power), SQ improved a little further again.  I experienced significant jump in SQ improvement once I started modifying SU-1, and think SU-1 has great potential to be an excellent match with Spring DAC.


----------



## earnmyturns (Sep 22, 2017)

theveterans said:


> This is subjective keep in mind. I believe that the DIR chip in the Spring is already very good. it’s just that the SU-1 has decrapifier implementations inside aside from its internal DIR chip that converts to I2S. Also Keep in mind that source quality (not referring to hi-res files, but the hardware) matters too so the better the source the better the sound regardless if youse the su1 or other decrapifier chains


I've been trying to hear a clear difference between expensive-USB-source>SU-1>I2S>KTE 3 and cheaper-USB-source>Schiit Eitr>S/PDIF>KTE 3 and have not been able to so far.


----------



## tkcha

Hi  ahhmadfaizadnan,Doraymon  both two you guys, dont worry if you have clean source.  SU-1 might sound better than straight usb but SOTM or any device clean the noise from your source it will be no problem for sure.   Try first without SU-1 than if you still not happy with sound. You always do it later.


----------



## ericr

A fellow HF member lent me his SU-1 earlier this summer to try with my Level 1 Spring DAC and I was significantly impressed (vs. USB direct from my Surface Pro 3).  It's as if the Spring DAC is very relaxed and happy to be communicated with in its native language.  Unfortunately the owner wanted it back. 

Just as I was about to buy the SU-1 the Eiter was released so I've bought it instead and am also impressed - just not to the degree of the SU-1.

To my thinking,  that the Spring accepts an I2S signal is another positive that sets it apart.  Sure, it adds cost for the SU-1, but worth it in my opinion.

For most any other DAC the Eiter seems an excellent way to go.

It's worth noting I've not tried any of the many other USB decrapifiers (but with the SU-1 and the Schiit now available is it even worth the bother?).

Eric


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

tkcha said:


> Hi  ahhmadfaizadnan,Doraymon  both two you guys, dont worry if you have clean source.  SU-1 might sound better than straight usb but SOTM or any device clean the noise from your source it will be no problem for sure.   Try first without SU-1 than if you still not happy with sound. You always do it later.



Sure. I'll try that first. Thanks!


----------



## MacedonianHero (Sep 22, 2017)

doraymon said:


> My Hugo at line out level was 3V and I had to keep the volume of my Liquid Carbon amp at 25%.



And my DAVE balanced is 6V. Going balanced doubles it.


----------



## mtoc

new mid-priced Holo coming, still R2R, with 4pin headphone jack


----------



## theveterans

earnmyturns said:


> I've been trying to hear a clear difference between expensive-USB-source>SU-1>I2S>KTE 3 and cheaper-USB-source>Schiit Eitr>S/PDIF>KTE 3 and have not been able to so far.



That's why I wrote that I believe that the DIR in the Spring is excellent. It just needs to have a clear removal of EMI, electrical, RFI impurities and jitter to sound really good.


----------



## joseph69

mtoc said:


> new mid-priced Holo coming, still R2R, with 4pin headphone jack


Any more info, like where you read this, or some photos?


----------



## lukeap69 (Sep 23, 2017)

Wildism HK confirmed to me that yes there is an incoming DAC lower than the Spring. He didn't provide details as he has not received the demo unit yet.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I've read that yggy needs 3 to 4 days to warm up. Does this apply to any R2R Dac or just yggy? Does the spring dac works the same way?


----------



## earnmyturns (Sep 23, 2017)

theveterans said:


> That's why I wrote that I believe that the DIR in the Spring is excellent. It just needs to have a clear removal of EMI, electrical, RFI impurities and jitter to sound really good.


Agreed. I got the Eitr because there were consistently very good reviews from people I trust about its ability to reduce electrical noise, and at its low price compared with the competition it would be a nice gadget to have around. I've tested it against other setups with my KTE 3 and with a Bifrost (pre-gen 5), the results have been uniformly good. I'll be asking my wife to do some comparative listening this weekend: she has a very musical ear, and she doesn't care about gear, so she's the perfect subject for a more objective comparison


----------



## mtoc

joseph69 said:


> Any more info, like where you read this, or some photos?



ve seen the fotos, just a Spring look alike but smaller, same color style


----------



## theveterans

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I've read that yggy needs 3 to 4 days to warm up. Does this apply to any R2R Dac or just yggy? Does the spring dac works the same way?



Yes to Holo and other R2R DAC


----------



## AnakChan

!!? You mean I have to leave my HS/SU-1 on? Could I just leave it in Standby when not using? Would that be considered as "warming up" too?


----------



## oneguy (Sep 23, 2017)

AnakChan said:


> !!? You mean I have to leave my HS/SU-1 on? Could I just leave it in Standby when not using? Would that be considered as "warming up" too?


I leave mine on with no issues. You can leave it on or in STBY with no issues and there is a minimal (2 watt, IIRC) power draw difference.

Leaving it in STBY does the same thing. It keeps the circuits warm.


----------



## Contrails

I am thinking of selling my Spring DAC LVL 3.  In brand new condition, hardly used.  Need the funds for a new mountain bike.  I am wanting USD 2k. Send me a PM.


----------



## ericr

theveterans said:


> That's why I wrote that *I believe* that the DIR in the Spring is excellent. It just needs to have a clear removal of EMI, electrical, RFI impurities and jitter to sound really good.



Interesting, I was told the Spring DAC used a typically available, off the shelf chip to internally convert USB to the needed I2S signal.

Searching the web for a while produced nothing conclusive.  Do you have specific information on how USB conversion is done on the Spring?


----------



## theveterans

ericr said:


> Interesting, I was told the Spring DAC used a typically available, off the shelf chip to internally convert USB to the needed I2S signal.
> 
> Searching the web for a while produced nothing conclusive. Do you have specific information on how USB conversion is done on the Spring?



I don't have an info for how the USB conversion is done unfortunately.


----------



## rkyoto

A new mid-priced modular dac/amp combo from Holo called Cyan:




 



 



 

DAC module is either R2R PCM or DSD, with or w/o headphone amp, also an upgraded USB receiver module.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

rkyoto said:


> A new mid-priced modular dac/amp combo from Holo called Cyan:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting! What's the price tag?


----------



## rkyoto

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Interesting! What's the price tag?



6980 RMB, roughly a little bit over 1K USD


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

rkyoto said:


> 6980 RMB, roughly a little bit over 1K USD



Cheaper than the spring dac with an amp combo is quite a bargain actually. But I wonder how it sounds compare to spring dac. Do you own the set?


----------



## rkyoto

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Cheaper than the spring dac with an amp combo is quite a bargain actually. But I wonder how it sounds compare to spring dac. Do you own the set?


It's still an engineering sample though but it's said that as a standalone DAC it should be close to spring level 1, just w/o the capability to convert PCM/DSD natively at the same time.


----------



## lukeap69

So the DAC is either PCM only or DSD only? Interesting.


----------



## doraymon

theveterans said:


> I don't have an info for how the USB conversion is done unfortunately.


Is there a way to write to the manufacturer maybe? Or maybe Kitsune


rkyoto said:


> A new mid-priced modular dac/amp combo from Holo called Cyan:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How do you know the USB receiver module is upgraded?


----------



## rkyoto

doraymon said:


> Is there a way to write to the manufacturer maybe? Or maybe Kitsune
> 
> 
> How do you know the USB receiver module is upgraded?


Notice that the XMOS chip is different from the one used in current spring dac. Also the designer said that the isolation's improved and the module would also be included in the future batches of spring.


----------



## doraymon

rkyoto said:


> Notice that the XMOS chip is different from the one used in current spring dac. Also the designer said that the isolation's improved and the module would also be included in the future batches of spring.


That's good news as I just ordered my Spring and will be using it with USB.
Can you share the source (other forums?) of this info and if you know how to contact the designer?


----------



## whirlwind

rkyoto said:


> A new mid-priced modular dac/amp combo from Holo called Cyan:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This could end up being a great bang for the buck.


----------



## rocky500 (Sep 25, 2017)

rkyoto said:


> It's still an engineering sample though but it's said that as a standalone DAC it should be close to spring level 1, just w/o the capability to convert PCM/DSD natively at the same time.



If you have to order PCM or DSD, would anyone limit themselves by ordering a DSD Dac only?
There is not that much current media around. You would think most would order PCM.
Looks very cool though.

ADDED: Could up sample everything with software?


----------



## Gibraltar

I had a borrowed Spring DAC in my system for several weeks and was very impressed with the DSD playback. For PCM I still prefer my Esoteric for most genres, as I find it a bit more neutral. I've thought more than once about picking up a Spring just for the DSD playback, so this new unit could hit the spot. I'd be interested to see if it gets cheaper without the headphone amp. Oh, and whether it actually performs as well as the Spring 

Of note, the Spring beats the Esoteric in all aspects when using the Esoteric's internal USB interface. For the above testing I fed the Spring I2S and the Esoteric SPDIF from an SU-1. That little box makes a huge difference for the Esoteric.


----------



## gr8soundz

rkyoto said:


> A new mid-priced modular dac/amp combo from Holo called Cyan:
> DAC module is either R2R PCM or DSD, with or w/o headphone amp, also an upgraded USB receiver module.



Thanks for those pics. Glad to see the 4-pin headphone out and that it's still fully balanced and retains the i2s port from the original Spring. Upgraded USB is great too but since the original DAC was released I'd planned to someday pair one with a Pink Faun i2s card in my PC (although I'm not sure the pinouts match and/or whether the Spring's i2s input has dip switches like Audio-gd).

DSD specs will no doubt be cleared up once the new DAC is officially released. For now, I'm guessing it simply doesn't do native DSD. Afaik, Schiit's Loki was the one device that was DSD only and it didn't do well at all.


----------



## rkyoto

rocky500 said:


> If you have to order PCM or DSD, would anyone limit themselves by ordering a DSD Dac only?
> There is not that much current media around. You would think most would order PCM.
> Looks very cool though.
> 
> ADDED: Could up sample everything with software?


For those who use hqplayer to convert everything to DSD then yes. However you don't really lose the ability to play both PCM and DSD using either R2R or DSD module since the AKM PCM/DSD converter chip used in spring is also included


----------



## thyname

Anyone using Holo Spring ad a DAC with speakers?


----------



## doraymon

rkyoto said:


> For those who use hqplayer to convert everything to DSD then yes. However you don't really lose the ability to play both PCM and DSD using either R2R or DSD module since the AKM PCM/DSD converter chip used in spring is also included


HI thanks for the many insights.
May I ask you if you are representing or associated with Holo Audio.
Just asking because I'd love to ask a few questions on the Spring DAC!


----------



## Gibraltar

thyname said:


> Anyone using Holo Spring ad a DAC with speakers?



I was using it exclusively with speakers. What would you like to know?

I've also noticed that the Spring seems a lot more popular with the headphone crowd.


----------



## oneguy

I am and I have nothing really to complain about. It sounds good through my HE-9 as a pre-amp and Stealth 8 speakers.


----------



## rkyoto

doraymon said:


> HI thanks for the many insights.
> May I ask you if you are representing or associated with Holo Audio.
> Just asking because I'd love to ask a few questions on the Spring DAC!


Sorry but no. And I personally own a Holo sabertooth dac so I don't care much about tech details of spring.

I don't know much about Holo in US but doesn't every Holo product sold in US come from KitsuneHIFI?


----------



## lukeap69

I used to use my Spring with my headphone system. Now it is permanently serving my LS50s.


----------



## doraymon

lukeap69 said:


> I used to use my Spring with my headphone system. Now it is permanently serving my LS50s.


Sounds like an interesting match...
I love the LS50s. 
What amp do you use?


----------



## lukeap69

I use Schiit Ragnarok.


----------



## thyname

Gibraltar said:


> I was using it exclusively with speakers. What would you like to know?
> 
> I've also noticed that the Spring seems a lot more popular with the headphone crowd.



What do you use for volume control?


----------



## Gibraltar

thyname said:


> What do you use for volume control?



I have a Sony TA-ER1 preamp that handles volume control.


----------



## joseph69

rkyoto said:


> I don't know much about Holo in US but doesn't every Holo product sold in US come from KitsuneHIFI?


Yes.


----------



## doraymon (Sep 26, 2017)

Well, technically all Holo Audio products are sold in the US by Kitsune Hifi but my understanding is that at list all Spring units are built and modded outside the US and then imported.


----------



## joseph69

doraymon said:


> Well, technically all Holo Audio products are sold in the US by Kitsune Hifi.


This is why I answered yes.


----------



## doraymon

joseph69 said:


> This is why I answered yes.


The question was not who is selling them but where do they come from. They come from China.


----------



## joseph69 (Sep 26, 2017)

doraymon said:


> The question was not who is selling them but where do they come from. They come from China.


No, there wasn't any question about where they're coming from, the question was:
"I don't know much about Holo in US but doesn't every Holo product sold in US* come from KitsuneHIFI?*

So yes, Kitsune HiFi - HoloAudio USA is the US distributor for Holo which is located in Washington. Holo is in China.

The question wasn't:
"I don't know much about Holo in US but doesn't every Holo product sold in US *come from China?*"

I've been up since 4:00AM...am I missing something?


----------



## doraymon

joseph69 said:


> No, there wasn't any question about where they're coming from, the question was:
> "I don't know much about Holo in US but doesn't every Holo product sold in US* come from KitsuneHIFI?*"
> 
> 
> ...


Let's agree to disagree.
Maybe who asked the question can clarify what exactly he wanted to know.
But maybe by now we already answered his question lol


----------



## doraymon

rkyoto said:


> Notice that the XMOS chip is different from the one used in current spring dac. Also the designer said that the isolation's improved and the module would also be included in the future batches of spring.


Yes it's the same XMOS X208 chip of the SU-1.


----------



## rocky500

doraymon said:


> Yes it's the same XMOS X208 chip of the SU-1.



Would be great if they offer some type of upgraded board to existing Holo customers.


----------



## doraymon

rocky500 said:


> Would be great if they offer some type of upgraded board to existing Holo customers.


I don't think it's gonna be a huge upgrade, an external SU-1 connected to I2S will most probably do better anyway.

As expected I resisted only a few days after the order of the Spring DAC to place my order for a KTE SU-1 DDR version.
After a few days exchanging emails with Tim of Kitsune HiFi I couldn't resist...

Tim provided an outstanding customer support in my case, he was really professional and I decided to repay with my trust!


----------



## D2Girls

lukeap69 said:


> I used to use my Spring with my headphone system. Now it is permanently serving my LS50s.



How are you liking the sound? What did you have before to compare it to?


----------



## doraymon

Sorry for the OT but I have two questions:
1) I see many power cord brands offering different cables for source components and power amps. Is there any drawback in using a cable marketed for amps with a source component like the Spring DAC?
2) I see many power filters brands placing a few plugs unfiltered on their devices and the label it for amp use. What's the problem of using a filtered plug to power an amp?


----------



## Gibraltar

doraymon said:


> Sorry for the OT but I have two questions:
> 1) I see many power cord brands offering different cables for source components and power amps. Is there any drawback in using a cable marketed for amps with a source component like the Spring DAC?
> 2) I see many power filters brands placing a few plugs unfiltered on their devices and the label it for amp use. What's the problem of using a filtered plug to power an amp?


1. Power cables for amps would be designed to support high current loads. This in itself should not be a problem for use with a source component. There are plenty of cords that are designed to work equally well with both types of components though so I would probably steer clear of ones that claim limited applications.

2. Often line filters have limited power handling abilities and even if they're rated for your amps power usage some people find they limit dynamics, hence the bypass outlets.


----------



## doraymon

Gibraltar said:


> 1. Power cables for amps would be designed to support high current loads. This in itself should not be a problem for use with a source component. There are plenty of cords that are designed to work equally well with both types of components though so I would probably steer clear of ones that claim limited applications.
> 
> 2. Often line filters have limited power handling abilities and even if they're rated for your amps power usage some people find they limit dynamics, hence the bypass outlets.


Perfect, thanks!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

The level 3 is amazing! Really love the micro detail and tonality  I am still gonna wait for my balanced cable though


----------



## lukeap69

D2Girls said:


> How are you liking the sound? What did you have before to compare it to?


I like it very much. I actually listen with my speakers more than my headphones. I have added a sub to my LS50 for that additional bottom umph. I didn't have any speaker system before so I cannot provide any comparison with the LS50 unfortunately.


----------



## doraymon

lukeap69 said:


> I like it very much. I actually listen with my speakers more than my headphones. I have added a sub to my LS50 for that additional bottom umph. I didn't have any speaker system before so I cannot provide any comparison with the LS50 unfortunately.


You set yourself a high bar starting with the LS50...


----------



## doraymon

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> The level 3 is amazing! Really love the micro detail and tonality  I am still gonna wait for my balanced cable though


Mine is being built now.
I just bought a QED 40 Reference XLR to XLR analogue cable to connect the Spring L3 to my Cavalli LC2


----------



## lukeap69

doraymon said:


> You set yourself a high bar starting with the LS50...


Good to hear. That means I managed to avoid further spending.


----------



## doraymon

lukeap69 said:


> Good to hear. That means I managed to avoid further spending.


You wish.
If you write in this forum means you have the sickness already, so no matter how satisfied you think you are with your speakers, you will soon be looking for an improvement...


----------



## lukeap69

doraymon said:


> You wish.
> If you write in this forum means you have the sickness already, so no matter how satisfied you think you are with your speakers, you will soon be looking for an improvement...


So far I have persevered for few months. Let's see.


----------



## doraymon

Interesting solution the one of the Holo Audio Cyan DAC, it deserves a *poll*!


----------



## bflat (Oct 6, 2017)

Quick impressions after adding iFi iGalvanic to my chain.

I purchased the iFi iGalvanic promo bundle (with iDefender and iPower) from Kitsune Hifi as they are an authorized dealer. While pre-ordering, Tim told me about the new DDR (Dual Discrete Regulator) that he added to the KTE SU-1. I purchased my unit before this was available so I ordered an upgrade. The DDR option lowers the noise floor even more. Tim also gave me a good explanation of why it's best to have the shortest cable between the iGalvanic to the SU-1 and he created a short 8" KTE USB cable just for this purpose and I purchased one of those as well.

I got everything back and setup was a snap. My chain is PC -> iDefender/iPower -> Generic USB 3.0 Cable -> iGalvanic -> KTE Short USB -> KTE SU-1 DDR -> Supra HDMI -> KTE Level 3 DAC (i2S) -> KTE Balanced XLR -> iCan Pro -> Headphone Lounge Silver OCC Balanced Cable -> Utopia

It took a week to get everything done and I've been using my SP1000 with the Utopias during that time so I will caveat that my ears had adjusted to SP1000 which is good, but still a couple steps below my desktop chain. I am also going from memory before my latest upgrades. I also can't really A/B test because the DDR upgrade is permanent. I had zero issues with installation. It was truly plug and play. With about 3 hours of listening, no drops or technical issues. iGalvanic and SU-1 work perfect with each other.

I was pretty happy with my previous setup and only only wished that the Utopia sound stage was a little bigger. Listening to the new chain, I feel all frequencies have better definition and space. I wouldn't say that the sound is more extended in any direction, but just cleaner. This in turn gives a better sound stage experience. It's not a larger stage, but a more 3D one. I listened to my favorite tracks and as cliche as it is, I swear I heard more details that I missed before. My one hour listening session turned into 3.

So is it worth it? For those of you thinking about the buying the KTE SU-1, I think the DDR is now standard so that's a no brainer. For the iGalvanic, it's about the same price as Intona. The promotional bundle does more than the Intona, but availability is very limited and once they are gone, they are gone. I would also recommend the KTE short USB cable. Overall, I think about what cables cost and that last percent or 2 of sound quality and I would say for a galvanic isolator is money well spent.

Right now my priority of audio performance places power and power isolation well ahead of headphone cables. Before hearing for galvanic isolation myself, I would have put headphone cables at a higher priority. There are also measurable differences in power and isolation whereas headphone cables are far more subjective.

Edit - DSD 512 Native works fine with iGalvanic


----------



## doraymon

bflat said:


> Quick impressions after adding iFi iGalvanic to my chain.
> 
> I purchased the iFi iGalvanic promo bundle (with iDefender and iPower) from Kitsune Hifi as they are an authorized dealer. While pre-ordering, Tim told me about the new DDR (Dual Discrete Regulator) that he added to the KTE SU-1. I purchased my unit before this was available so I ordered an upgrade. The DDR option lowers the noise floor even more. Tim also gave me a good explanation of why it's best to have the shortest cable between the iGalvanic to the SU-1 and he created a short 8" KTE USB cable just for this purpose and I purchased one of those as well.
> 
> ...


My KTE SU-1 is on the way and I also opted for the DDR version with a little extra.
Cant't wait to test it but the KTE Spring DAC has not shipped yet...


----------



## mtoc

regarding r2r, I have something to say, all personal thoughts. the biggest thing r2r facing is that the semiconductor guys gave up long ago, the last one is the PCM1704, due to the limitation of those days, you know, moore's law, performance can't be competed with newer thingy. Actually I prefer that the semiconductor manufacturers redo the new r2r chip as in IC, with modern tech the result will be much better than the PCM1704's. Price is not a problem since the market is there, is waiting (the price of the latest ess chip is high but worthy)


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## Greg121986

I have a regular SU-1. Is there an upgrade path that I can install myself that will mimic the KTE SU-1?


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## elan120

Pending your comfort level with soldering/desoldering through hole and surface mount devices, you can mimic or better KTE SU-1.


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## oneguy

Greg121986 said:


> I have a regular SU-1. Is there an upgrade path that I can install myself that will mimic the KTE SU-1?


Adding an LPS-1


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## Energy

I would recommend the LPS-1 over everything else.


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## bflat

mtoc said:


> regarding r2r, I have something to say, all personal thoughts. the biggest thing r2r facing is that the semiconductor guys gave up long ago, the last one is the PCM1704, due to the limitation of those days, you know, moore's law, performance can't be competed with newer thingy. Actually I prefer that the semiconductor manufacturers redo the new r2r chip as in IC, with modern tech the result will be much better than the PCM1704's. Price is not a problem since the market is there, is waiting (the price of the latest ess chip is high but worthy)



Not sure how realistic that would be. The PCM1704 come from a time when semiconductor geometry was around 0.25 um. Now, the geometry is down to 9 nm and going smaller. Also the silicon wafers have more than doubled in size. That means the PCM1704 circuit on today's silicon fabs would have orders of magnitude more chips per wafer than when it first came came out. The market for these is just a fraction of what it was in the early 90s so I just don't see anyone making these chips in mass volume. To put this into perspective, PC RAM was still sold in MB back when PCM1704 was being made. But unlike RAM, I don't see why a resistor ladder chip needs orders of magnitude more resistors for digital music files that have only evolved from 16 to 24 bit in the last 20 years with no significant changes on the horizon.

More than likely, you will see better DS DAC implementations that oversample at ridiculously high rates to achieve a more analog like sound. From that standpoint, smaller and faster silicon will make that product better.


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## thyname

For those using Holo Spring with Singxer SU-1, which HDMI cable do you use?

I use a 0.5m cable from Apollo AV, but I feel I can do better


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## ahmadfaizadnan

thyname said:


> For those using Holo Spring with Singxer SU-1, which HDMI cable do you use?
> 
> I use a 0.5m cable from Apollo AV, but I feel I can do better



I use wireworld ultraviolet. It's on the kitsune website. I can't really compare but  I guess it's better than the stock cable.


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## doraymon (Oct 13, 2017)

thyname said:


> For those using Holo Spring with Singxer SU-1, which HDMI cable do you use?
> 
> I use a 0.5m cable from Apollo AV, but I feel I can do better


I just got a Supra HD5 HDMI 0.5m cable to connect the KTE SU-1 to the KTE Spring. This was one of the cables suggested by Tim Connor of Kitsune. He tested many so I trust his judgement. He mentioned many other alternatives but I went for the supra as I found it more affordable than others and very well built.
Too bad the DAC has not shipped yet so I can't comment on any improvements over a decent quality, no-brand HDMI cord I had.
Will try to test once the DAC arrives.


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## thyname

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I use wireworld ultraviolet. It's on the kitsune website. I can't really compare but  I guess it's better than the stock cable.


 
I was thinking more in the lines of Silver Starlight 7 or better


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## oneguy (Oct 13, 2017)

Emotiva X HDMI. Inexpensive and has the right orientation if you stack the SU-1 on top. I tried the Supra HDMI and didn’t like the connector orientations strain on the connections. No real improvement in sound for the price difference either.


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## thyname

oneguy said:


> Emotiva HDMI. Inexpensive and has the right orientation if you stack the SU-1 on top. I tried the Supra HDMI and didn’t like the connector orientations strain on the connections. No real improvement in sound for the price difference either.



Thanks.

How do you like ultraRendu? Noticeably better than microRendu?


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## oneguy

thyname said:


> Thanks.
> 
> How do you like ultraRendu? Noticeably better than microRendu?


Definitely a step up. I went from mR 1.3 to 1.4 both with iFI iPower and noticed a difference but it was on the subtle side. The following move to uR and LPS-1 was immediately apparent the first track I played. Hard to tell if it was just the mR to uR change or if the LPS-1 had a significant hand in the improvements though.


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## doraymon

thyname said:


> I was thinking more in the lines of Silver Starlight 7 or better


The Starlight is hyper expensive and could not find a single enthusiastic review to justify the x4 price vs the Supra.


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## thyname

oneguy said:


> Definitely a step up. I went from mR 1.3 to 1.4 both with iFI iPower and noticed a difference but it was on the subtle side. The following move to uR and LPS-1 was immediately apparent the first track I played. Hard to tell if it was just the mR to uR change or if the LPS-1 had a significant hand in the improvements though.


Most likely due to LPS-1


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## thyname

doraymon said:


> The Starlight is hyper expensive and could not find a single enthusiastic review to justify the x4 price vs the Supra.



In the grand scheme of thing (look at us: we buy Holo Spring!), Starlight is NOT hyper expensive


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## oneguy

thyname said:


> Most likely due to LPS-1


What’s your opinion on the LPS-1 powering the SU-1? I am looking to do the same upgrade


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## thyname

oneguy said:


> What’s your opinion on the LPS-1 powering the SU-1? I am looking to do the same upgrade



Honestly, it is the biggest upgrade you can make for your Holo. No brainer. Highly recommend!


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## doraymon

thyname said:


> In the grand scheme of thing (look at us: we buy Holo Spring!), Starlight is NOT hyper expensive


You have a point LOL


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## doraymon

oneguy said:


> What’s your opinion on the LPS-1 powering the SU-1? I am looking to do the same upgrade


As an alternative you can consider shipping the SU-1 back to Tim and upgrade it to KTE DDR which might deliver an even better upgrade.
It comes with upgraded low ESR OSCON caps, Wima Film Caps and ultra high performance discrete regulators for both 5V(PSU) and 3.3V(digital outputs). This is the reason why it’s called DDR (Dual Discrete Regulators)


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## oneguy (Oct 14, 2017)

doraymon said:


> As an alternative you can consider shipping the SU-1 back to Tim and upgrade it to KTE DDR which might deliver an even better upgrade.
> It comes with upgraded low ESR OSCON caps, Wima Film Caps and ultra high performance discrete regulators for both 5V(PSU) and 3.3V(digital outputs). This is the reason why it’s called DDR (Dual Discrete Regulators)


I considered that but I like the versatility of separating the power supply from the unit. It ensures future replacements to the SU-1 can benefit from better power and not just the SU-1. Additionally, KTE SU-1’s only go for $50 more on the used market than a brand new regular SU-1 which is a significant drop in value. Come resale time it makes more sense to not tie up too much money solely in the SU-1. Just my 2 cents though


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## ahmadfaizadnan

doraymon said:


> The Starlight is hyper expensive and could not find a single enthusiastic review to justify the x4 price vs the Supra.



Platinum starlight 7 is way more expensive


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## doraymon

For those who have the KTE Spring: I am choosing the power cables for both KTE Spring and KTE SU-1 DDR.
I have 3 options:

1) Copper cable with Copper Connectos: exceptional bass with a large, rich, full, warm sound and a very large sound stage.
2) Copper Cable with Silver Connectors: more detail, brighter mids and highs but not as much bass and a smaller sound stage
3) SIlver plated cable with SIlver Connectors: best detail, very bright mids and highs, very wide sound stage but no depth and the list bass of the three.

Based on the DAC's tonality, which power cord one would you chose and why?


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## Greg121986

Regarding HDMI interconnect, I use a Wireworld Starlight 7 0.3M. I upgraded to this from a 1M Wireworld Chroma 7. I noticed a nice improvement, but this may be due to the shorter cable more than the quality of the cable. I'll never really know. I must say I was really impressed by how beefy the Starlight 7 cable is. It's super thick and has very robust metal (aluminum?) connectors. The pictures do not do justice to how well made this cable is. 

To Doraymon above, I'm not sure I would believe the descriptions applied to each of those power cable types. I am a believer in high quality cables making a difference in your system, but I would not expect that those cable types would always end up with the changes in sound as you have listed them. That being said, I use a DIY 14AWG PC-OCC copper power cable with Neotech wire on my Holo Spring KTE L3. I switched this to the DAC only after upgrading to a better power cable for my stereo amp. I intend to get something better but I am not in any hurry. Most likely I will end up with a Wireworld Electra 7 so that it matches what I use on my power amp.


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## thyname

Greg121986 said:


> Regarding HDMI interconnect, I use a Wireworld Starlight 7 0.3M. I upgraded to this from a 1M Wireworld Chroma 7. I noticed a nice improvement, but this may be due to the shorter cable more than the quality of the cable. I'll never really know. I must say I was really impressed by how beefy the Starlight 7 cable is. It's super thick and has very robust metal (aluminum?) connectors. The pictures do not do justice to how well made this cable is.
> 
> To Doraymon above, I'm not sure I would believe the descriptions applied to each of those power cable types. I am a believer in high quality cables making a difference in your system, but I would not expect that those cable types would always end up with the changes in sound as you have listed them. That being said, I use a DIY 14AWG PC-OCC copper power cable with Neotech wire on my Holo Spring KTE L3. I switched this to the DAC only after upgrading to a better power cable for my stereo amp. I intend to get something better but I am not in any hurry. Most likely I will end up with a Wireworld Electra 7 so that it matches what I use on my power amp.



Thanks for chiming in. I am the guy who asked the HDMI cable question originally.

I ordered the Silver Starlight 7 HDMI cable, in 0.5M length. Should arrive in a few days.

Is 0.5m OK in terms of length? 0.3M was not enough to get from singxer su-1 to my Holo KTE in my shelves.

existing cable is a 0.5 m cable from Apollo AV bought off eBay.


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## Greg121986

You can make a very good argument that the I2S data protocol is meant to work with very short runs of wire. In fact it really isn't supposed to use wire at all. It was designed for integrated circuits that are essentially directly soldered to each other on a PCB. I have read this case numerous times for anyone who tries to justify the use of a short cable for I2S. To a certain degree, I agree with this point. Adding a cable and increasing it's length when using I2S will change the impedance and ultimately affect the signal. However, the shielding and separation of each data carrying wire in the Wireworld Silver Starlight 7 is top notch. Your constraint was being able to actually use the system with a reasonable degree of ease when setting things up in your shelf. At some point you have to find a compromise and actually start enjoying the music! I would not worry even a little bit about the difference between a 0.5M or 0.3M silver starlight 7.


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## thyname

Greg121986 said:


> I would not worry even a little bit about the difference between a 0.5M or 0.3M silver starlight 7.



Thanks again! On the above, are you implying I am fine with 0.5m?


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## Greg121986

thyname said:


> Thanks again! On the above, are you implying I am fine with 0.5m?



Yes I think you are fine with 0.5M.


----------



## oneguy

There’s was a test done comparing HDMI length and different cables by some  members on here. The summary was that lengths below 0.5m don’t matter. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/singxer-su-1-owners.839330/page-4
It starts at Post #58 and goes to page 11 or so.


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## thyname

oneguy said:


> There’s was a test done comparing HDMI length and different cables by some  members on here. The summary was that lengths below 0.5m don’t matter.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/singxer-su-1-owners.839330/page-4
> It starts at Post #58 and goes to page 11 or so.



It does not look like that from @Energy post #65 on that thread.


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## oneguy

thyname said:


> It does not look like that from @Energy post #65 on that thread.


I could be wrong then. The last time I read those post was 7 months ago. I thought that somewhere in there it is mentioned that construction may play more of a factor at shorter lengths.


----------



## doraymon

Greg121986 said:


> To Doraymon above, I'm not sure I would believe the descriptions applied to each of those power cable types. I am a believer in high quality cables making a difference in your system, but I would not expect that those cable types would always end up with the changes in sound as you have listed them. That being said, I use a DIY 14AWG PC-OCC copper power cable with Neotech wire on my Holo Spring KTE L3. I switched this to the DAC only after upgrading to a better power cable for my stereo amp. I intend to get something better but I am not in any hurry. Most likely I will end up with a Wireworld Electra 7 so that it matches what I use on my power amp.


Yeah I was always puzzled as why a copper or silver plated copper cable would actually change the sound signature or tonal balance of source or an amp.
But it seems universally accepted that copper would deliver the warmest sound at the expense of some detail and silver plated copper would deliver the best detail at the expense of some bass thump.
While I do understand a good power cable can be better shielded and be less subject to noise from surrounding environment, I struggle to figure out how it can affect the tonal balance of an analogue device (amp) let alone a digital one (DAC).
I ended up ordering a copper and a silver and will do AB tests which will most probably end up with little or no difference perceived so I will keep the cheapest...


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## oneguy

doraymon said:


> Yeah I was always puzzled as why a copper or silver plated copper cable would actually change the sound signature or tonal balance of source or an amp.
> But it seems universally accepted that copper would deliver the warmest sound at the expense of some detail and silver plated copper would deliver the best detail at the expense of some bass thump.
> While I do understand a good power cable can be better shielded and be less subject to noise from surrounding environment, I struggle to figure out how it can affect the tonal balance of an analogue device (amp) let alone a digital one (DAC).
> I ended up ordering a copper and a silver and will do AB tests which will most probably end up with little or no difference perceived so I will keep the cheapest...


Testing with your own ears and preferably in your own system is really the only way to be sure. In the end, that's the only thing that matters.


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## doraymon

oneguy said:


> Testing with your own ears and preferably in your own system is really the only way to be sure. In the end, that's the only thing that matters.


Yeah absolutely!
Sometimes though a good preliminary research can narrow down the choices and prepare you for the listening session.
Another million dollar question is: if a DAC or amp sounds dark and smooth, shall I pair it with power cables and interconnect cords that are supposed to match its tonality or compensate it?
It never ends and smells like snake oil... Lol


----------



## oneguy

doraymon said:


> Yeah absolutely!
> Sometimes though a good preliminary research can narrow down the choices and prepare you for the listening session.
> Another million dollar question is: if a DAC or amp sounds dark and smooth, shall I pair it with power cables and interconnect cords that are supposed to match its tonality or compensate it?
> It never ends and smells like snake oil... Lol


No it doesn't and unfortunately audionervosa has infected us all!


----------



## Energy

oneguy said:


> I could be wrong then. The last time I read those post was 7 months ago. I thought that somewhere in there it is mentioned that construction may play more of a factor at shorter lengths.



Flat construction would be better for HDMI cables due to crosstalk concerns but they need to be decently shielded between them since high speed I²S is very susceptible to these sorts of things. Shorter length is also as equally important. I would not go longer than 0.5M for I²S transmission.

If you’re on a budget, the APOLLO AV LIGHTNING V2 is a great cable. If you have a little more money to spend, the WireWorld Ultraviolet or Starlight should be a small step up in turns of quality/build construction but through my personal experience does not sound any different. Each to his/her own.

I am very much in love with my Holo Audio Spring and have even built a super computer so it can run POLY-SINC-XTR-MP filter while playing at DSD512 with HQPLAYER and music has never been better. I will post a photo soon!


----------



## oneguy

Energy said:


> Flat construction would be better for HDMI cables due to crosstalk concerns but they need to be decently shielded between them since high speed I²S is very susceptible to these sorts of things. Shorter length is also as equally important. I would not go longer than 0.5M for I²S transmission.
> 
> If you’re on a budget, the APOLLO AV LIGHTNING V2 is a great cable. If you have a little more money to spend, the WireWorld Ultraviolet or Starlight should be a small step up in turns of quality/build construction but through my personal experience does not sound any different. Each to his/her own.
> 
> I am very much in love with my Holo Audio Spring and have even built a super computer so it can run POLY-SINC-XTR-MP filter while playing at DSD512 with HQPLAYER and music has never been better. I will post a photo soon!


You are about to achieve beast mode!


----------



## bflat

doraymon said:


> Yeah absolutely!
> Sometimes though a good preliminary research can narrow down the choices and prepare you for the listening session.
> Another million dollar question is: if a DAC or amp sounds dark and smooth, shall I pair it with power cables and interconnect cords that are supposed to match its tonality or compensate it?
> It never ends and smells like snake oil... Lol



Make sure you have an AC conditioner between your components and your wall outlet. If you don't, your power cables are only shielding the last meter or 2 of line noise, but will fully transmit any noise from the hundreds of feet of power lines running throughout your home. Kitsune Hifi happens to offer custom power conditioners that isolates AC line noise. Having said that, the power supplies in the KTE SU-1 and Level 3 DAC isolate noise too so it really depends how noisy your power lines are. My point being, just using expensive power cords without a power conditioner doesn't buy you much.


----------



## thyname

bflat said:


> Make sure you have an AC conditioner between your components and your wall outlet. If you don't, your power cables are only shielding the last meter or 2 of line noise, but will fully transmit any noise from the hundreds of feet of power lines running throughout your home. Kitsune Hifi happens to offer custom power conditioners that isolates AC line noise. Having said that, the power supplies in the KTE SU-1 and Level 3 DAC isolate noise too so it really depends how noisy your power lines are. My point being, just using expensive power cords without a power conditioner doesn't buy you much.



Would a UPS / battery like the one below work?

https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-C...8&qid=1508431394&sr=8-4&keywords=sinewave+ups


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## bflat

thyname said:


> Would a UPS / battery like the one below work?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-C...8&qid=1508431394&sr=8-4&keywords=sinewave+ups



I've wondered about UPS products too. The prices are certainly better than what you see form the likes of Shunyata, Nordost, and other audiophile shops. Personally, I think the audio centric power conditioners and distribution products filter out audible noise specifically whereas the UPS products have to also consider the higher frequency noise that affects video. Unless we get an engineer to chime in, it may be better to stick to the audiophile components, but maybe look in classified or eBay for a used one. These things last forever.


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## chaos215bar2 (Oct 19, 2017)

If the equipment has a halfway decent power supply (which the Holo Spring does by all accounts), there should be no such thing as audible noise in the power line. You're probably trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

That said, most home UPSs you find won't be much help when it comes to line noise. The cheaper ones will be an offline design, only engaging anything beyond surge protection circuitry when the input voltage actually dips below their cutoff. Better ones will be line-interactive, but this still doesn't imply any filtering. They just use a multi-tap transformer to maintain a target output voltage while the battery is disengaged (or charging, of course). Without additional filtering, this will still transmit noise.

What you'd need is an online UPS, but even here, keep in mind that no equipment actually requires the perfectly clean 60Hz sine wave you're after to function. The UPS's inverter output may very well be more noisy than your unfiltered outlet.


----------



## thyname

chaos215bar2 said:


> If the equipment has a halfway decent power supply (which the Holo Spring does by all accounts), there should be no such thing as audible noise in the power line. You're probably trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
> 
> That said, most home UPSs you find won't be much help when it comes to line noise. The cheaper ones will be an offline design, only engaging anything beyond surge protection circuitry when the input voltage actually dips below their cutoff. Better ones will be line-interactive, but this still doesn't imply any filtering. They just use a multi-tap transformer to maintain a target output voltage while the battery is disengaged (or charging, of course). Without additional filtering, this will still transmit noise.
> 
> What you'd need is an online UPS, but even here, keep in mind that no equipment actually requires the perfectly clean 60Hz sine wave you're after to function. The UPS's inverter output may very well be more noisy than your unfiltered outlet.



So, would the one I have below work?

https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-C...8&qid=1508431394&sr=8-4&keywords=sinewave+ups


----------



## chaos215bar2

thyname said:


> So, would the one I have below work?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-C...8&qid=1508431394&sr=8-4&keywords=sinewave+ups


That does look like one of the better home units, but I still wouldn't bet on either filtering or the quality of the sine wave output when running on battery power. This is a line-interactive UPS, which means it uses an autotransformer to boost voltage during a brownout, but that doesn't imply any actual filtering. And while CyberPower does advertise "Sine Wave Power" on the product page, I'm quite certain their marketing blurb (loosely) implies functionality that the UPS does not have. Based on the line-interactive topology, this should apply only when running on battery power, and then the quality of the output still depends on how they're generating it (which they don't state).


----------



## doraymon

bflat said:


> Make sure you have an AC conditioner between your components and your wall outlet. If you don't, your power cables are only shielding the last meter or 2 of line noise, but will fully transmit any noise from the hundreds of feet of power lines running throughout your home. Kitsune Hifi happens to offer custom power conditioners that isolates AC line noise. Having said that, the power supplies in the KTE SU-1 and Level 3 DAC isolate noise too so it really depends how noisy your power lines are. My point being, just using expensive power cords without a power conditioner doesn't buy you much.


I have two Opera Audio Consonance PW-1 filters, one for sources on for amp.


----------



## thyname

chaos215bar2 said:


> That does look like one of the better home units, but I still wouldn't bet on either filtering or the quality of the sine wave output when running on battery power. This is a line-interactive UPS, which means it uses an autotransformer to boost voltage during a brownout, but that doesn't imply any actual filtering. And while CyberPower does advertise "Sine Wave Power" on the product page, I'm quite certain their marketing blurb (loosely) implies functionality that the UPS does not have. Based on the line-interactive topology, this should apply only when running on battery power, and then the quality of the output still depends on how they're generating it (which they don't state).



So, what do you recommend instead?

As you can see from my signature, the only thing that really needs some type of conditioner, is my Holo Spring KTE, as the rest are either linear power supplies (I have three LPS-1s), or the iFi Pro iCan Amp that has its own specially made PSU.


----------



## bflat

thyname said:


> So, what do you recommend instead?
> 
> As you can see from my signature, the only thing that really needs some type of conditioner, is my Holo Spring KTE, as the rest are either linear power supplies (I have three LPS-1s), or the iFi Pro iCan Amp that has its own specially made PSU.



How about this one? Furman is a well known brand in the professional AV world.

https://www.amazon.com/Furman-AC-21...5966&sr=8-5&keywords=furman+power+conditioner


----------



## earnmyturns

bflat said:


> How about this one? Furman is a well known brand in the professional AV world.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Furman-AC-21...5966&sr=8-5&keywords=furman+power+conditioner


I've got its bigger brother Furman Elite-15i feeding my speaker system, great stability and very clean background.


----------



## manishex

Any other AC conditioner recommendations? What is the theory behind them, I find the sound slightly changes depending on what wall socket I use, and it's inevitably worse if its a multi socket extension lead.


----------



## ZGojira

thyname said:


> So, would the one I have below work?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-C...8&qid=1508431394&sr=8-4&keywords=sinewave+ups



I have one of these units connected to all my audio stuff. 
I could not hear any difference from using the unit. Now I have a monster power conditioner connected between this and all the audio stuff and the background seems to be quieter. 
Most important of all, it fixed a humming problem I had with the 727A.


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## doraymon (Oct 21, 2017)

manishex said:


> Any other AC conditioner recommendations? What is the theory behind them, I find the sound slightly changes depending on what wall socket I use, and it's inevitably worse if its a multi socket extension lead.


Here are my two mains filters, Opera Audio Consonance PW-1.
The one on the right has two unfiltered plugs for amps requiring more current.
I have all the sources on the left filter, the amp on the right one.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Sorry for buzzing in, but the Cyan will come out shortly at the end of this month right?


----------



## oneguy

Don’t know exactly when but I do believe the release is imminent.


----------



## doraymon

Mr KTE Spring and Mrs KTE SU-1 DDR have finally arrived.
Burn-in in progress and excited headfier here...


----------



## whirlwind

doraymon said:


> Mr KTE Spring and Mrs KTE SU-1 DDR have finally arrived.
> Burn-in in progress and excited headfier here...


 
Congrats, such a revealing dac


----------



## doraymon

whirlwind said:


> Congrats, such a revealing dac


Thanks, congrats to my lawyer as well when my wife will find out how much I spent...


----------



## tkcha (Oct 30, 2017)

my system




my friend and potential turntable shoot out


----------



## tkcha

Hi  I am about upgrade new analogue system already got Allnic H300 phono stage and demo few turntables include kronos pro,the sparta, Vpi Avenger, AMG The Viella V12 as you know owner of holo spring 3 dac . I am very interesting compare to hi end vinyl system about 15 times more expensive .  Anyway I ordered AMG Viella turntable with Ortofon Winfeld cart, Audio Sensibility Signature silver phono cable,HRS platform . I am very exciting  will be back again after when I receive and set up.


----------



## tkcha

second picture from before, black phono stage under kronos pro turntable is mine Allnic H3000.


----------



## Energy

Did anyone’s HoloAudio Control Panel driver break after installing the newest Windows updates?

I removed the ISO REGEN from the setup and it’s still not working...


----------



## rocky500

Energy said:


> Did anyone’s HoloAudio Control Panel driver break after installing the newest Windows updates?
> 
> I removed the ISO REGEN from the setup and it’s still not working...


I think I uninstalled the driver and then reinstalled.
Running windows 10 v1709


----------



## bflat

No Windows issue here with latest update. My chain is in the sig and I'm using the ASIO driver that supports 512 DSD in JRiver.


----------



## gr8soundz

Hey @bflat is see you have both the iGalvanic and iPurifier2. Have you tried both with the SU-1 and how much improvement (if any) did you hear with the iGalvanic?

I ask because I'm still using an iPurifier2 and, based on the accolades I've read, the SU-1 seems TOTL for USB interfaces. I'd considered moving up to the iGalvanic but it's 3x the price.


----------



## DSK

gr8soundz said:


> ... the SU-1 seems TOTL for USB interfaces...



Along with the Matrix X-SPDIF 2 which is similar price and already has a DC input that you can plug an Uptone LPS-1 (or PS of your choice) into without any mods/kits required.


----------



## Energy (Nov 4, 2017)

False call.
It was the ISO REGEN that broke.

When used in-between the SU-1, the SU-1 won’t detect. Well i’m kind of happy it happened. For awhile now I thought I’ve been hearing small pops but just told myself it was placebo.


----------



## thyname

Energy said:


> False call.
> 
> It was the ISO REGEN broke.
> When used in-between the SU-1, the SU-1 won’t detect. Well i’m kind of happy it happened. For awhile now I thought I’ve been hearing small pops but just told myself it was placebo.



So what are you gonna do about it?


----------



## Energy

thyname said:


> So what are you gonna do about it?



Return it to Uptone Audio and hopefully get another one that works. It’s hard to see my chain implementing another type of USB regenerator since I still need my computer for HQPlayer otherwise I would have gone the SOtM route like you.. :[


----------



## thyname

Energy said:


> Return it to Uptone Audio and hopefully get another one that works. It’s hard to see my chain implementing another type of USB regenerator since I still need my computer for HQPlayer otherwise I would have gone the SOtM route like you.. :[



That Tx-USBultra looks tempting. And the iGalvanic 3.0 from iFi. I was at the Capital Audio Fest yesterday, and iFi had a nice booth there.


----------



## bflat

gr8soundz said:


> Hey @bflat is see you have both the iGalvanic and iPurifier2. Have you tried both with the SU-1 and how much improvement (if any) did you hear with the iGalvanic?
> 
> I ask because I'm still using an iPurifier2 and, based on the accolades I've read, the SU-1 seems TOTL for USB interfaces. I'd considered moving up to the iGalvanic but it's 3x the price.



No I have not used the iPurifier with the Holo DAC. I only use the DAC with the SU-1 with I2S output. I got the iGalvanic since the USB data input of the SU-1 does not have galvanic isolation. iPurifier would be redundant with the SU-1 since it is a reclocker and noise reduction. I do feel the iGalvanic added a lower noise floor to the SU-1.


----------



## emptymt

any comparisons with the Gumby? especially the level 1.
I know Level 3 will most likely be better in every way


----------



## thyname

bflat said:


> No I have not used the iPurifier with the Holo DAC. I only use the DAC with the SU-1 with I2S output. I got the iGalvanic since the USB data input of the SU-1 does not have galvanic isolation. iPurifier would be redundant with the SU-1 since it is a reclocker and noise reduction. I do feel the iGalvanic added a lower noise floor to the SU-1.



Did you compare the iGalvanic with ISO Regen?


----------



## bflat

thyname said:


> Did you compare the iGalvanic with ISO Regen?



No I haven't. I'm sure the products are comparable. Both companies are well known for their noise cancelling technologies. I went with iFi because I have a lot of their products and found their technical support very responsive and thorough.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

bflat said:


> No I haven't. I'm sure the products are comparable. Both companies are well known for their noise cancelling technologies. I went with iFi because I have a lot of their products and found their technical support very responsive and thorough.



What does the iGalvanic adds to the sonic experience of level 3? I am thinking of improving my chain but not sure if the addition worth the extra dollars.


----------



## bflat

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> What does the iGalvanic adds to the sonic experience of level 3? I am thinking of improving my chain but not sure if the addition worth the extra dollars.



I made a couple additions simultaneously - SU-1 DDR mod and the iGalvanic. I thought both lowered the noise floor further and created an overall better separation of instruments. The difference is more evident listening to my Utopias but not so much with my TH900.


----------



## Energy

Agreed with @bflat . Even when using the SU-1 or ISO REGEN, I can't hear these improvements from other headphones unless I were to use the Utopia. 
Some people might need a pair of headphones good enough to reveal the quality of their upstream components.


----------



## lukeap69

That's a good news. There's no need to spend more.


----------



## doraymon (Nov 11, 2017)

I need your help to clarify something about the output voltage of my Spring L3.
As you can see in the picture below, the MAXIMUM balanced output voltage should be 5V rms (PCM).
Is this valid for each of the two channels? Or each channel has 2.5V for a total of 5V?

Also, I am confused by the fact that in the specs for PCM they mention only 48k NOS, what about the other frequencies?
For DSD the maximum balanced output voltage is half, I guess this depends on the SPring's architecture?

(Just to put this in context, I am asking this because my amp has an attenuator switch to handle high voltage inputs from the DAC, which seems to be the case of the Spring.
I sought advice from the amp manufacturer to decide wether switching the attenuator on or off and they asked me this question on the MAX output voltage of my DAC.)


----------



## jcn3

doraymon said:


> I need your help to clarify something about the output voltage of my Spring L3.
> As you can see in the picture below, the MAXIMUM balanced output voltage should be 5V rms (PCM).
> Is this valid for each of the two channels? Or each channel has 2.5V for a total of 5V?
> 
> ...



i think you got the answer from your post (exactly the same question) over at ca . . . .


----------



## bflat

doraymon said:


> I need your help to clarify something about the output voltage of my Spring L3.
> As you can see in the picture below, the MAXIMUM balanced output voltage should be 5V rms (PCM).
> Is this valid for each of the two channels? Or each channel has 2.5V for a total of 5V?
> 
> ...



Manufacturers typically state specs to a single set of parameters. Most likely they used a 48K sampling rate, 1 KHz signal to measure THD. I don't know of any manufacturer that publishes measurements at every single sampling and bit rate for every frequency between 20 Hz to 20 Khz. That would be a 3 dimensional graph.

As for the DSD number, DSD output is generally 4 dB less than PCM by design. 3 dB represents a doubling of output power so that is why you see only half the voltage swing. That's not to say it is half volume. It takes about 10 dB to achieve a perceived doubling of sound volume.


----------



## doraymon

jcn3 said:


> i think you got the answer from your post (exactly the same question) over at ca . . . .


No I didn't.
Maybe my question was not clear but the only answer I got was a repetition of the specs I already read.
And yes, it was the same exact question, I hope this didn't bother anyone...


----------



## doraymon

bflat said:


> Manufacturers typically state specs to a single set of parameters. Most likely they used a 48K sampling rate, 1 KHz signal to measure THD. I don't know of any manufacturer that publishes measurements at every single sampling and bit rate for every frequency between 20 Hz to 20 Khz. That would be a 3 dimensional graph.
> 
> As for the DSD number, DSD output is generally 4 dB less than PCM by design. 3 dB represents a doubling of output power so that is why you see only half the voltage swing. That's not to say it is half volume. It takes about 10 dB to achieve a perceived doubling of sound volume.


Thanks a lot for the explanation and it makes sense!
I eventually received the answer from Tim and the 5V RMS for balanced is the total voltage measured on the left or right channel and they result from the sum of 2.5V on each of the two "lines" carrying the same signal in opposite phase.
I'd say everything makes sense now thanks.


----------



## jjk43

Does anybody know whether KitsuneHiFi will accept a Holo return if I don't like the machine?
The website is a bit unclear about this.
Thanks very much.


----------



## thyname

jjk43 said:


> Does anybody know whether KitsuneHiFi will accept a Holo return if I don't like the machine?
> The website is a bit unclear about this.
> Thanks very much.



Ask Tim at KTE


----------



## thyname

If someone in DC area is in need for a Holo Spring KTE , let me know


----------



## joseph69

thyname said:


> If someone in DC area is in need for a Holo Spring KTE , let me know


If you don't mind me asking, what DAC are you switching to?


----------



## thyname

joseph69 said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what DAC are you switching to?



Not sure yet. This is not just switching the DAC, but completely changing the setup from a "spaghetti" setup to an all in device (streamer / DAC / Preamp). Several options here, such as Ayre QX-5 Twenty or PS Audio Directstream w/ Bridge II


----------



## joseph69

I see, totally different.
I't nice to go in a different direction after having something you get too used to sometimes. 
Good luck and enjoy.


----------



## oneguy

I just bought a black Yggy to compare against my KTE. I can’t afford to keep both so either the KTE will go up for sale after this comparison or the Yggy wil be returned to Schiit. More to follow in about 10 days after arrival and the recommended Yggy warm up time.


----------



## bflat

oneguy said:


> I just bought a black Yggy to compare against my KTE. I can’t afford to keep both so either the KTE will go up for sale after this comparison or the Yggy wil be returned to Schiit. More to follow in about 10 days after arrival and the recommended Yggy warm up time.



I predict KTE will be the winner!


----------



## Khragon

I was in the same situation, still with the spring now.  I highly recommend testing the Spring with the Singxer SU-1 via I2S.  One which I conveniently got one on sale


----------



## oneguy

bflat said:


> I predict KTE will be the winner!


We shall see. I’m excited as the Yggy is on a short list of the DACs that I have always wanted to try but have never had the opportunity to listen to.


----------



## oneguy

Khragon said:


> I was in the same situation, still with the spring now.  I highly recommend testing the Spring with the Singxer SU-1 via I2S.  One which I conveniently got one on sale


I full intend to as that is my current setup.


----------



## joseph69

oneguy said:


> I just bought a black Yggy to compare against my KTE. I can’t afford to keep both so either the KTE will go up for sale after this comparison or the Yggy wil be returned to Schiit. More to follow in about 10 days after arrival and the recommended Yggy warm up time.


Looking forward to hearing your impressions.


----------



## earnmyturns

oneguy said:


> I just bought a black Yggy to compare against my KTE. I can’t afford to keep both so either the KTE will go up for sale after this comparison or the Yggy wil be returned to Schiit. More to follow in about 10 days after arrival and the recommended Yggy warm up time.


I own both (see my sig). If I had to choose, I'd probably keep the Yggy because its strengths are overall more balanced, I don't do DSD or server-side upsampling, only NOS at the source's sampling rate. But the Sprint KTE 3 with SU-1>I2S is incredibly engaging for headphone listening. You might have to flip a coin at the end of your 10 days


----------



## oneguy

earnmyturns said:


> I own both (see my sig). If I had to choose, I'd probably keep the Yggy because its strengths are overall more balanced, I don't do DSD or server-side upsampling, only NOS at the source's sampling rate. But the Sprint KTE 3 with SU-1>I2S is incredibly engaging for headphone listening. You might have to flip a coin at the end of your 10 days


Well I am expecting the Yggy in 6-7 days and then I’ll do the in depth listen after 4 days of constant power which is what I read the Yggy needs for best performance. That actually gives me 9 days from that point until it may be coin flip time


----------



## oneguy

The Yggy arrived yesterday and I’m about a day and a half into the constant power for optimal sound game. I’m very excited to see what happens in a few days and if the sound presentation improves.


----------



## oneguy (Mar 31, 2018)

(The review below is for a Gen 5/ Analog 2 Yggy)
Here's my review:

For those that are looking to demo the Yggy let me first start off by saying that the Yggy does need to warm up first. I conducted by review on day 4 of power up and I noted the following items on day 1 and 2 which were in large part resolved on day 4. I didn’t get to do a lot of listen on day 3 so unfortunately I do not have any notes from that day.

Day 1:
Harsh and super detail.  Leading edge of notes was harsh and sustained notes were slightly grainy. Very airy and super instrument separation. Fatiguing.

Day2:
Much smoother and grain significantly reduced impact of the bass but doesn’t carry much of the tone. Still has weird problem with instrument integration. Better treble representation. Piano sounds more real. Bass is articulate but decay is slightly faster than what I prefer. High detail in the treble

AES vs USB (Yggy):
To compete the testing I first had to figure out which input on the Yggy to use. Traditionally, the AES input had been favored by most but the new USB Gen 5 interface is supposed to be a measure to close the gap with the AES input. To my ears, I found that the AES I put was still superior so all Yggy testing will be with that interface. The USB interface sounded slightly muffled and veiled like some of the background detail was suppressed. It is also worth noting that I am not using an AES cable. I don’t have one on hand so instead I am using a 1m Emotiva XLR cable.

System:

Spring: NetGear FS105 (Supra Ethernet) -> utraRendu (20G USB) -> SU-1 (Emotiva HDMI) -> Spring KTE (Norne Silvergarde SC XLR) -> SRM-007ta -> SR-L700

Spring with speakesrs: NetGear FS105 (Supra Ethernet) -> utraRendu (20G USB) -> SU-1 (Emotiva HDMI) -> Spring KTE (Norne Silvergarde SC XLR) -> HE-9 (Norne Silvergarde SC XLR) -> Stealth 8

Yggy: NetGear FS105 (Supra Ethernet) -> utraRendu (20G USB) -> SU-1 (Emotiva XLR) -> Yggdrasil (Norne Silvergarde SC XLR) -> SRM-007ta -> SR-L700

Yggy with spekaers: NetGear FS105 (Supra Ethernet) -> utraRendu (20G USB) -> SU-1 (Emotiva XLR) -> Yggdrasil (Norne Silvergarde SC XLR) -> HE-9 (Norne Silvergarde SC XLR) -> Stealth 8

***********
(Notes about the following impressions)
-All the following comment are when playing PCM
-Spring (P) denotes Spring DAC playing PCM with no upsampling
-Spring (D) denotes the Spring DAC playing PCM upsampled to DSD256 in Audirvana using the “best” preset and B(5th order)
-Only NOS mode was used on the Spring
***********

Treble:
They Yggy can be characterized as having crisp highs and good air between the treble when compared to the Spring. The Yggy does bring a slight amount of fatigue with this increased treble. This fatigue is still slightly present with the Spring (P) and gone with the Spring (D).

Mids:
The Spring (D) can be categorized as smooth, sweet and almost seductive in the mids with superb instrument fusion. The Yggy isn’t as liquid sounding as the Spring (D) but beats out to the Spring (P). The Yggy presents better instrument fusion than the Spring (P) but at the cost of some soundstage width. With both the Yggy and Spring (P) have the tendency to have every instrument fighting for your attention which can be distracting at times but on the plus side if you want to isolate a sound to concentrate is easier to initially find it. Overall the Spring (D) is the most engaging of the bunch.

Bass:
The Yggy has near perfect bass control but the mid bass was weak. The runner up in the bass control depart was Spring (P) and the tertiary was the Spring (D) which was slightly deficient in both control and quantity. The Spring (D) was smooth in the bass registers though, similar to how it was in the mids, but it was missing bass definition. It is worth noting neither of the Spring tests had a perceived deficiency in the mid bass area.

Speakers:
The Yggy proved to be my overall favorite of the three different instances that were tested. In my opinion, speaker imaging and sound stage were clearly above the Spring (D) and Spring (P). The Yggy portrayed a complete wall of sound that seemed to extend beyond the equilaterally oriented monitors. By comparison, the Spring’s sound stage did not extend beyond the speakers. Yggy imaging was very tight and controlled and the only real negative thing I can say about it is it tended to lump too many things tightly into the center when I felt they should have a little more lateral separation. One other minor ding related to the Yggy was its representation of voices crossfading from one channel to the other. I felt the crossover between the channels did not track smoothly and seemed to jump from the edge, to the center, and then then opposite edge when the singer walked from one side to the other.

DSD->PCM for the Yggy:
The DSD to PCM conversion done by Audirvana was not great. I would say the native DSD playback in the Spring beat out the DSD->PCM conversion every time.

Summary:
Spring- For the Spring DAC almost every instance was improved by upsampling to DSD vice using the native PCM file. The Yggy consistently beat the Spring when it the file wasn’t upsampling. DSD files converted to PCM for playback though the Yggy greatly diminishes their sparkle so I would avoid that if possible. So what’s the bottom line?

Head-fi system recommendation:
If you intend to only play PCM and not upsample to DSD  – get the Yggy
If you have DSD media that you cannot live without – get the Spring and upsample everything to DSD

Speakers:
If you primarily listen to speakers – get the Yggy


----------



## pichu

can someone please explain simply what the SU-1 is for? Does it act as a seperator between the computer and the DAC? I have a Shiit Eitr. Is it essentially the same thing?


----------



## jcn3

pichu said:


> can someone please explain simply what the SU-1 is for? Does it act as a seperator between the computer and the DAC? I have a Shiit Eitr. Is it essentially the same thing?



yes, it is the same category of product as an eitr.  they are called digital to digital converters (ddc).  the su-1 has more outputs than the eitr and more importantly has an i2s output that many folks believe is the best sounding output, especially when using a spring dac.


----------



## pichu

jcn3 said:


> yes, it is the same category of product as an eitr.  they are called digital to digital converters (ddc).  the su-1 has more outputs than the eitr and more importantly has an i2s output that many folks believe is the best sounding output, especially when using a spring dac.




So do you think the Eitr would be good with the Holo Spring 3? Or should I leave the Eitr out


----------



## jcn3

pichu said:


> So do you think the Eitr would be good with the Holo Spring 3? Or should I leave the Eitr out



i don't own a spring dac, but the overwhelming sentiment is that the su-1>i2s>spring dac is a fabulous combination and allows you to play any file type (including DSD512).  this combination is maximized if you use something like hqplayer to upsample everything to DSD512 (or DSD256 if your computer doesn't have the horsepower). 

the eitr is a great piece, for sure, but you are limited to PCM.  just from frame of reference, i've got a yggy with the gen5 board (same board as in the eitr) and live happily.


----------



## pichu

So currently i got 2 iFi Jitterbugs parallel to eachother in my laptops USB ports. 

Then I have it running to a Shiit Eitr which goes to my Topping D30 DAC

Im really wondering for my planned upgrade if this would work

Jitterbug to a Shiit Eitr via USB

then Shiit Eitr to a Singxer SU-1 via Coaxial

then a Singxer SU-1 to Halo Spring 3 via i2s

anyone have any thoughts on this? I plan on getting the Halo Spring DAC no matter what. The purchase in question is really only the Singxer SU-1 and the i2s cable


----------



## T Bone

pichu said:


> Jitterbug to a Shiit Eitr via USB then Shiit Eitr to a Singxer SU-1 via Coaxial
> then a Singxer SU-1 to Halo Spring 3 via i2s



Sell everything in front of the Singxer SU-1 and put some $ back in your pocket.  The SU-1 is all you need.
As a Singxer/Holo owner I can attest that there is no appreciable benefit to "daisy chaining" USB products infront of the Singxer SU-1


----------



## pichu

T Bone said:


> Sell everything in front of the Singxer SU-1 and put some $ back in your pocket.  The SU-1 is all you need.
> As a Singxer/Holo owner I can attest that there is no appreciable benefit to "daisy chaining" USB products infront of the Singxer SU-1



i see you run a USB isolater before the SU-1? Is that an exception


----------



## T Bone

pichu said:


> i see you run a USB isolater before the SU-1? Is that an exception


Yes, I enjoy my Uptone ISO Regen.  It's provides a subtle change but its by no means a "must have".  
I guess my broader point is that Jitterbug ---> Eiter --> Singxer --> Holo seems a bit redundant.  

If you get your Singxer / Holo you can experiment with removing/introducing components in your USB chain to see if it really makes a difference.  
I spent a lot of time trying components in front of the Singxer and gauging their audible benefit.


----------



## pichu

T Bone said:


> Yes, I enjoy my Uptone ISO Regen.  It's provides a subtle change but its by no means a "must have".
> I guess my broader point is that Jitterbug ---> Eiter --> Singxer --> Holo seems a bit redundant.
> 
> If you get your Singxer / Holo you can experiment with removing/introducing components in your USB chain to see if it really makes a difference.
> I spent a lot of time trying components in front of the Singxer and gauging their audible benefit.



fair enough 

im too lazy to sell equipment so im gonna test it and see how it sounds. considering audio is highly preferential i can make my decision there if im gonna leave the jitterbug and Eitr out. I do appreciate your input.

Speaking of galvanized equipment. have you heard iFi's offering with their USB Galvanic isolater?

BTW, I just bought a Silver/Silver cable from ww.iceageaudio.com due to reccomendations i read earlier in the thread. It will be used to power my Holo Audio DAC


----------



## T Bone

pichu said:


> Speaking of galvanized equipment. have you heard iFi's offering with their USB Galvanic isolater?
> BTW, I just bought a Silver/Silver cable from ww.iceageaudio.com due to reccomendations i read earlier in the thread. It will be used to power my Holo Audio DAC


I have heard of, but have no hands-on experience with iFi's isolator.  They have some highly regarded products that enjoy a good reputation among the HeadFi crowd.  Personally, I just can't get thru iFi's lengthy and seemingly overlapping product offerings.   iPurifier, iPower, iGalvanic, iNano, iUSB, iCAN.
....i can't keep up with them.  

For me, the uptone ISO Regen offered everything I needed.

Frankly, we wouldn't need all of this "stuff" in front of the Holo if their USB implementation were better.  Before buying my Holo, I evaluated a Benchmark DAC for a few weeks using "straight USB" no decrappifiers, no gizmos, etc.  It sounded amazing.  The Holo sounded good, but not great.  I had to bypass the Holo's USB input in favor of the I2S via the Singxer SU-1 before the Holo finally started to shine.  

I have Shunyata Venom power cables on my amp and DAC - but I've never heard an audible benefit from a power cable.  (your mileage may vary)
I also have a PS Audio Power Plant filtering everything - but that's more of an insurance policy than anything else.  
There's no shortage of things to throw your money at in this hobby.


----------



## Themordent

After considerable waiting, Eitr delivered today.  Can confirm that putting other things before DDC makes little difference (if any), but I do detect a slight difference between the Eitr (coax) and SU-1 (I2S).
Maybe it's just the extra money I spent on the Singxer I'm hearing, but the Eitr sounds comparatively "flatter" (i.e. slighly less clear, separation of various instruments/voices is not as good).  I'd certainly be happy with either one if I never heard the other, as the discrepancy is small; I originally bought the Eitr for a secondary chain (it's going in front of a Modi MB) so everything works out anyway.

Actually planning on getting rid of USB entirely in the coming months and giving the Pink Faun PCIe I2S bridge a whirl as a new PC build comes together.


----------



## manishex

Themordent said:


> After considerable waiting, Eitr delivered today.  Can confirm that putting other things before DDC makes little difference (if any), but I do detect a slight difference between the Eitr (coax) and SU-1 (I2S).
> Maybe it's just the extra money I spent on the Singxer I'm hearing, but the Eitr sounds comparatively "flatter" (i.e. slighly less clear, separation of various instruments/voices is not as good).  I'd certainly be happy with either one if I never heard the other, as the discrepancy is small; I originally bought the Eitr for a secondary chain (it's going in front of a Modi MB) so everything works out anyway.
> 
> Actually planning on getting rid of USB entirely in the coming months and giving the Pink Faun PCIe I2S bridge a whirl as a new PC build comes together.


Is that i2s out of the PC? wouldn't you still need a short cable which would make moving your gear a few cm away from your PC obtrusive?


----------



## Themordent

manishex said:


> Is that i2s out of the PC? wouldn't you still need a short cable which would make moving your gear a few cm away from your PC obtrusive?


Yeah, I'll be using the same 1ft. HDMI cable I'm currently running; haven't experimented with longer cables, but don't really intend to as no good can come of it.  The setup around my desk is a bit peculiar, but it'll end up reaching just fine as the PC chassis is designed to lie flat and will sit on a riser/shelf just above the DAC on my stand.


----------



## bflat

Themordent said:


> Yeah, I'll be using the same 1ft. HDMI cable I'm currently running; haven't experimented with longer cables, but don't really intend to as no good can come of it.  The setup around my desk is a bit peculiar, but it'll end up reaching just fine as the PC chassis is designed to lie flat and will sit on a riser/shelf just above the DAC on my stand.



You will want to make sure the pin out matches the I2S input of the Holo DAC or can be configured to match. The SU-1 has configurable DIP switches.


----------



## Themordent

bflat said:


> You will want to make sure the pin out matches the I2S input of the Holo DAC or can be configured to match. The SU-1 has configurable DIP switches.


Yeah, the Spring pinout is PS Audio spec or something very similar (I think the DSD L/R channels are swapped, but everything else is identical), so it shouldn't be an issue; might also be the same as the Audio-GD spec but if I recall correctly the DSD pin config is very different.  Pink Faun doesn't do DSD so all this is moot anyhow.


----------



## 1note (Dec 20, 2017)

*is2 RJ45 Terminated Cable Recommendations  *

Torq's thread on life after Yggdrasil and this thread have been very helpful to me in my search for a new DAC. I want to see if these new value-for-money DACs can best my Kinosh ita Rey Audio R-DAC, circa 2009, which still to my ears outperforms the DAC in my Esoteric K-03x. I was looking at a Yggdrasil and Holo Spring Wild Stage Special Edition but have pushed the button on a Denafrips Terminator. I am a "flat earther" and just play CDs outside my vinyl system. The simplest DAC processing route I can see is is2. So I am looking to connect the is2 digital out of a CD transport to the is2 digital input of the Terminator. is2 cables are totally new to me.  The connectors on both ends would be RJ45.  Cable recommendations would be very much appreciated.  Thanks


----------



## bimmer100

For those who are asking questions in regards to KTE products or HoloAudio products. Just an FYI I don't follow these threads too closely and don't reply to IM's or forum postings due to rules of the Forum. But am happy to assist anyone that has some questions if they contact me via our website. Thank you for understanding.


----------



## earnmyturns (Dec 21, 2017)

pichu said:


> So do you think the Eitr would be good with the Holo Spring 3? Or should I leave the Eitr out


I reported this earlier: USB>SU-1>I2S>Spring KTE-3 sounds cleaner, more spacious than USB>Eitr>coax>Spring. Not a big difference, but audible with the right source material. According to my wife, who doesn't know or care about which gear was involved in the test, so no expectation bias.


----------



## doraymon

When I got my Spring KTE-3 a few months ago my previous DAC (Chord Hugo) was already on its way to the new owner so I couldn't do any A/B comparison.

After a few months I decided to buy the Hugo 2 and run some comparisons.
For the time being I have only compared my desktop setup (see my signature) to the Hugo 2 fed by Audirvana Plus using the same source songs and the same cans (Focal Clear). Just to clarify I used the headphones straight out of the Hugo 2 so it was not strictly a DAC comparison but the entire chain.

Well I'm not sure how to say this but my first impression is that the desktop setup with the Spring has a very similar level of transparency but blows away the Hugo 2 in terms of 3D effect, involvement and musicality.
Bass is tighter, voices are more refined and transients better reproduced.
I feel like there is more music inside, I don't know how to express this differently.

Now this is a big surprise to me as Rob Watts (designer of Chord DACs) has always fiercely sustained that transparency and refinement of the Hugo (and even more for the Hugo 2) were its "pièces de résistance".
But this exactly were I think my desktop setup sounded more convincing.

To be fair to the Hugo 2 it has only say 2 hours of music played so I'd better give it more burn in time (I read like 1 week of daily use) before comparing.

Just sharing my initial thoughts...


----------



## bflat

doraymon said:


> When I got my Spring KTE-3 a few months ago my previous DAC (Chord Hugo) was already on its way to the new owner so I couldn't do any A/B comparison.
> 
> After a few months I decided to buy the Hugo 2 and run some comparisons.
> For the time being I have only compared my desktop setup (see my signature) to the Hugo 2 fed by Audirvana Plus using the same source songs and the same cans (Focal Clear). Just to clarify I used the headphones straight out of the Hugo 2 so it was not strictly a DAC comparison but the entire chain.
> ...



Thanks for sharing! Since you have an SU-1, you may want to try the coax from SU-1 to Hugo 2. All of the digital out ports on the SU-1 transmit simultaneously.


----------



## ZGojira

doraymon said:


> When I got my Spring KTE-3 a few months ago my previous DAC (Chord Hugo) was already on its way to the new owner so I couldn't do any A/B comparison.
> 
> After a few months I decided to buy the Hugo 2 and run some comparisons.
> For the time being I have only compared my desktop setup (see my signature) to the Hugo 2 fed by Audirvana Plus using the same source songs and the same cans (Focal Clear). Just to clarify I used the headphones straight out of the Hugo 2 so it was not strictly a DAC comparison but the entire chain.
> ...



I also own both, and my impressions are somewhat similar to yours. I previously owned a mojo (did not like it at all), and also a/b with the Hugo. 

To me, the Spring sounds much more "realistic", but the Hugo2 sounds extremely pleasing. So pleasing in fact, that it sounds "too good to be true". 
Even bad recordings sound good on the Hugo2, but the same cannot be said about the Spring. DSD on the Spring is also some next level stuff.....

Do note that I'm amping the Spring with the GSX mk2 whereas I am running straight off the Hugo2.

I would not say which is "better", since they serve very different purposes. 
But I am now able to at least have an enjoyable experience when I'm traveling, whereas previously my XD-05+V5i could not quite reach "level:enjoyable'.


----------



## doraymon (Jan 13, 2018)

bflat said:


> Thanks for sharing! Since you have an SU-1, you may want to try the coax from SU-1 to Hugo 2. All of the digital out ports on the SU-1 transmit simultaneously.


That's a very good hint, thanks sir!
I just need a good coax cable.
(edit: just realised how silly of me... SU-1 does not have a USB out obviously...)


----------



## doraymon

ZGojira said:


> I also own both, and my impressions are somewhat similar to yours. I previously owned a mojo (did not like it at all), and also a/b with the Hugo.
> 
> To me, the Spring sounds much more "realistic", but the Hugo2 sounds extremely pleasing. So pleasing in fact, that it sounds "too good to be true".
> Even bad recordings sound good on the Hugo2, but the same cannot be said about the Spring. DSD on the Spring is also some next level stuff.....
> ...


Fully agreed on the Mojo, the Hugo and even more the Hugo 2 are in a different league.
Great setup man, congrats!
I wish I could have more space (and money) to have multiple amps together... the GSX mk2 would be my first option together with the Violectric V281.
I have to say that my small but powerful Pathos Aurium (hybrid, class A, zero feedback amp) pairs exceptionally well with the Spring L3, I am extremely happy and enjoying music like NEVER before!


----------



## jjk43

I have an opportunity to acquire a used Holo Level 3.  Have there been any improvements to the internal components since the Holo was released?  Thanks.


----------



## earnmyturns

doraymon said:


> Fully agreed on the Mojo, the Hugo and even more the Hugo 2 are in a different league.
> Great setup man, congrats!
> I wish I could have more space (and money) to have multiple amps together... the GSX mk2 would be my first option together with the Violectric V281.
> I have to say that my small but powerful Pathos Aurium (hybrid, class A, zero feedback amp) pairs exceptionally well with the Spring L3, I am extremely happy and enjoying music like NEVER before!


Neurochrome HP-1 is another good amp option for the Spring.


----------



## doraymon

jjk43 said:


> I have an opportunity to acquire a used Holo Level 3.  Have there been any improvements to the internal components since the Holo was released?  Thanks.


I suggest you write to Tim Connor on Kitsune HiFi site with the invoice date of the second hand unit you are buying, he will tell you if there was any changes since then.


----------



## doraymon

I continued a few tests of the Spring L3 vs Hugo 2 and I continue being impressed by the Spring's performance.
This time I hooked both DAC's to the same source and both to the same amp, so to make it a real direct comparison between DACs.
The only minor difference is that the Spring is connected to the amp via XLR balanced cable while the Hugo through RCA.

Well, as I wrote above my impressions did not change. The Spring is one hell of a resolving, musical and refined DAC.
Well done @bimmer100  & co.!


----------



## MichaelXX2

After moving from DAC to DAC pretty rapidly over the past few months, I am certain that the Holo Spring Lvl 1 is here to stay in my system. I was originally eyeing the Schiit Gumby, but I decided to check out the Holo Spring after reading about its NOS R2R capabilities for both PCM and DSD! From my experience, this thing _kills _PCM recordings. Absolutely knocks them out of the park. It pairs especially well with old 80s CD releases of classic rock and jazz, which are usually very smooth and direct transfers from the tapes. DSD is marvelous, huge, and musical. This is the DAC that made me fully abandon vinyl.


----------



## musicmaker

I'm considering the L3 DAC with the SU-1 D2D. Also looking at the RME ADI-2-Pro Anniversary. Has anyone heard both ?


----------



## dcguy73

musicmaker said:


> I'm considering the L3 DAC with the SU-1 D2D. Also looking at the RME ADI-2-Pro Anniversary. Has anyone heard both ?



You're looking for an amp to go with that combo, right? You should talk to TIm at Kitsune Audio. He has a Level 3 Holo Spring, a modded SU-1, and a modded iFi iCan Pro powering his Focal Utopias (of course, he also sells the same equipment).


----------



## musicmaker

dcguy73 said:


> You're looking for an amp to go with that combo, right? You should talk to TIm at Kitsune Audio. He has a Level 3 Holo Spring, a modded SU-1, and a modded iFi iCan Pro powering his Focal Utopias (of course, he also sells the same equipment).



Yes looking for an amp but have my heart set on a Violectric v281 with the L3 and SU-1. Will chat with Tim. Thanks !


----------



## musicmaker

Contacted Tim yesterday but have not heard back. Is he usually responsive ? Also going to look at the Schiit Yggdrasil.


----------



## jjk43

Unfortunately I have not found him to be especially responsive.


----------



## dcguy73

musicmaker said:


> Contacted Tim yesterday but have not heard back. Is he usually responsive ? Also going to look at the Schiit Yggdrasil.


Sometimes he is, sometimes he's not.


----------



## jjk43

I was going to buy a Level 3 from him, but he didn't respond so I moved on.


----------



## dcguy73

Tim is a member of the Head-Fi Forum. You could try sending him a PM. His username is @bimmer100.


----------



## dcguy73

Hmm...interesting...Tim's Headfi profile says he's using a "L4 Spring DAC...only 10 made." So there's another level higher than 3, it seems.


----------



## bflat

I've had a dozen or more email exchanges with Tim and he has answered every single one. A few takes 1-2 days just due to work load. Perhaps I can offer some practical tips:

I try to keep email chains relatively short and start new ones so an addition to a chain doesn't appear as an old issue.
I send a reminder and make it clear if something is urgent if I need a faster response.
I realize I shouldn't have to "think" on how best to get support for any products I own, but I have found that most of the headfi equipment I have come from very small family owned businesses and have to think a little differently. If anyone has ever tried to email Ray Samuels at RSA, I think you guys know what I mean. Great guy, but prefers live phone call.

Is it worth all this at the end of the day? For me, absolutely! The great thing is that these businesses are so passionate about their products and will never sell you something that they themselves would not love.


----------



## bimmer100 (Jan 25, 2018)

bflat said:


> I've had a dozen or more email exchanges with Tim and he has answered every single one. A few takes 1-2 days just due to work load. Perhaps I can offer some practical tips:
> 
> I try to keep email chains relatively short and start new ones so an addition to a chain doesn't appear as an old issue.
> I send a reminder and make it clear if something is urgent if I need a faster response.
> ...



Excellent suggestions. I go back over emails often to see if I missed any. Can’t see any that I’ve missed. But I definitely have missed a few emails considering I get 50-100 a day and do my best to reply to everyone. I appreciate a follow up email if it’s urgent. And forums are certainly not where I’ll be found too often. If I miss any emails, I certainly apologize. Often I’ve found that my replies will end up in people’s junk folders or they simply get missed in the midst of other emails. I’m here to help everyone and love helping those as passionate as I am about audio. Send me a message again if urgent and most likely I won’t miss an email twice  I sure hope not!. Usually my response can be 1-2 business days on average and expected except sometimes around holidays or family emergencies


----------



## joseph69

I've never seen it mentioned n the site.


dcguy73 said:


> Hmm...interesting...Tim's Headfi profile says he's using a "L4 Spring DAC...only 10 made." So there's another level higher than 3, it seems.


----------



## musicmaker

I placed my order today for the L3 dac and SU-1 DDR. I'm thankful to Tim for reaching out to me today and patiently explaining everything. He left me impressed with his knowledge and customer focus. Thanks Tim !


----------



## ericr

FWIW, my experience with support from Kitsune Audio has been excellent!


----------



## joseph69

ericr said:


> FWIW, my experience with support from Kitsune Audio has been excellent!


A+ customer service.


----------



## doraymon

bflat said:


> Thanks for sharing! Since you have an SU-1, you may want to try the coax from SU-1 to Hugo 2. All of the digital out ports on the SU-1 transmit simultaneously.


I bought a FiiO L21 Coaxial cable to do this test.
No signal is apparently arriving to the Hugo2.
The SU-1 is also connected to my Spring via I2S and on this side of the path everything works well.
Any ideas?


----------



## bflat

doraymon said:


> I bought a FiiO L21 Coaxial cable to do this test.
> No signal is apparently arriving to the Hugo2.
> The SU-1 is also connected to my Spring via I2S and on this side of the path everything works well.
> Any ideas?



I am not too familiar with coax but I have seen the mini 3.5mm end have 2, 3, or 4 pole design. For Fiio, you must have 4 pole. I have a Fiio Q5 and it works great with the SU-1 with the Fiio cable. Maybe H2 uses 2 or 3 pole? I would ask Chord.

Even on the Q5, the coax is miles better than USB. Much more "analog" sounding while retaining all the details. I will never connect a DAC to USB from this day forward LOL.


----------



## Jozurr

Is I2S the best input for this DAC? and SU-1 the way to go? or does anyone have a better suggestion? Buying USB to I2S specifically for this DAC.


----------



## earnmyturns

Jozurr said:


> Is I2S the best input for this DAC? and SU-1 the way to go? or does anyone have a better suggestion? Buying USB to I2S specifically for this DAC.


With microRendu+LPS-1 as the (USB) source, I've found the following ranking: USB>SU-1>I2S is better than USB>Schiit Eitr>coax is better than straight USB for this particular DAC.


----------



## T Bone

Jozurr said:


> Is I2S the best input for this DAC? and SU-1 the way to go?


I did extensive listening tests and comparisons.  The I2S input performed the best, the AES input was slightly behind it.  I found the “raw” USB input fairly weak.  (No USB decrapifiers)


----------



## Jozurr

Thank you guys - Ill look to buy an SU-1.

Do you guys think adding a microrendu before the SU-1 helps? Currently I'd be going straight from laptop to SU-1


----------



## oneguy

The microrendu will definitely help compared to connecting the SU-1 directly to a computer.


----------



## T Bone

Jozurr said:


> Do you guys think adding a microrendu before the SU-1 helps? Currently I'd be going straight from laptop to SU-1


No need for the Sonore in your chain.  Laptop --> SU-1  --> Holo Spring will work great for you.

If you want to get fancy you can throw some $$ at the USB decrapifier of your choice.  
Depending on the quality of your laptop's USB signal/clock - USB tweaks may or may not be worth the investment.


----------



## T Bone (Feb 1, 2018)

oneguy said:


> The microrendu will definitely help compared to connecting the SU-1 directly to a computer.


I would agree that the Sonore MicroRendu won't "hurt" performance.   I don't know if I would categorize it is a "must have" tweak for the proposed audio chain.
I imagine that @Jozurr can go straight from the laptop --> SU-1 and would be very pleased with the results, without the extra expense of the MicroRendu


----------



## kank

I am interested in getting the HOLO audio L3 with the Singxer SU-1 for the I2S output. 
With cabling do you just use a normal HDMI cable or does it have to be a special cable?


----------



## oneguy

T Bone said:


> I would agree that the Sonore MicroRendu won't "hurt" performance.   I don't know if I would categorize it is a a "must have" tweak for the proposed audio chain.
> I imagine that @Jozurr can go straight from the laptop --> SU-1 and would be very pleased with the results, without the extra expense of the MicroRendu



Correct. I only answered the question and stated my opinion that it would definitely help and nothing along the lines of necessity. Going straight from the laptop is not bad by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## oneguy (Feb 1, 2018)

kank said:


> I am interested in getting the HOLO audio L3 with the Singxer SU-1 for the I2S output.
> With cabling do you just use a normal HDMI cable or does it have to be a special cable?


There is some info in the SU-1 thread, IIRC, on this. If memory serves me right, flat HDMI cable’s no longer than 0.5m are preferred. The shorter the better. Beyond that, the improvement due to cable composition bordered on negligible to “use it if you happen to have it laying around.” The wireworld unit’s up to the starlight 7 or ultraviolet 7 were tested along with an HDMI Cable from Apollo Audio. The Apollo Audio cable at ~$25 was ultimately decided on as the best balance in price vs performance. Again, this is all from memory so I could be remembering it incorrectly but you can go search the SU-1 thread to verify.

I personally ran a 0.5m Emotiva HDMI cable that was $15 or $30 and was happy with the results.


----------



## T Bone

oneguy said:


> There is some info in the SU-1 thread, IIRC, on this. If memory serves me right, flat HDMI cable’s no longer than 0.5m are preferred. The shorter the better.
> The wireworld unit’s up to the starlight 7 or ultraviolet 7 were tested along with an HDMI Cable from Apollo Audio. The Apollo Audio cable at ~$25 was ultimately decided on as the best balance in price vs performance.


Your memory is spot on.  I was very active in sharing my experiences with different cables in that thread.  
Shorter cables are recommended.  My installation/placement required a little longer cable than the WireWorld.  I wound up using a SUPRA HDMI cable.  ...a reasonably priced "premium" cable.


----------



## oneguy

T Bone said:


> Your memory is spot on.  I was very active in sharing my experiences with different cables in that thread.
> Shorter cables are recommended.  My installation/placement required a little longer cable than the WireWorld.  I wound up using a SUPRA HDMI cable.  ...a reasonably priced "premium" cable.


Good to know I’m not completely crazy...yet


----------



## earnmyturns

Jozurr said:


> Thank you guys - Ill look to buy an SU-1.
> 
> Do you guys think adding a microrendu before the SU-1 helps? Currently I'd be going straight from laptop to SU-1


The main reason to use a microRendu or another streamer is to split music storage from music reproduction, which increases flexibility and moves electrically noisy storage away from electrically sensitive reproduction hardware. Laptops are not the electrically quietest of devices... However, you pay a price, both in cost and in complexity. Tradeoffs.


----------



## T Bone

If anyone here is suffering from upgrade fever and wants to part with a Level 3 Spring DAC - drop me a private message.


----------



## inthere (Feb 12, 2018)

I sold my Holo Audio Spring Level 3 DAC about 8 months ago and bought a Gen 3 Yggdrasil to replace it. I don't know if the I2S output is responsible (The Yggy doesn't have I2S) but the Holo is a clear step up in clarity and quality. Still using the SU-1 but going AES now instead. Going to sell my Yggy soon and crawl back to the Level 3.......


----------



## T Bone

inthere said:


> I sold my Holo Audio Spring Level 3 DAC about 8 months ago and bought a Gen 3 Yggdrasil to replace it. I don't know if the I2S output is responsible (The Yggy doesn't have I2S) but the Holo is a clear step up in clarity and quality.


I had a chance to listen to a Schiit Ygdrassil this weekend at the Phoenix Head-Fi meet.  I played a couple of test tracks that I know very well and found that I still prefer my Holo Spring (a level 1)
Maybe its confirmation bias, maybe it was the rest of the system.


----------



## WNBC

I had 2 Spring KTEs and now a Spring Lvl 1.  Hard to let these DACs go.


----------



## T Bone

WNBC said:


> I had 2 Spring KTEs and now a Spring Lvl 1.  Hard to let these DACs go.


I have had the level 1 DAC for quite a while now and want to "bump" to the level 3 if I can find one.
I am thoroughly pleased with the performance of the Spring.  I'd like to compare the level 1 and level 3 head-to-head and see if the upgraded power supply and caps really makes a big difference.


----------



## WNBC

Gotcha, it’s been 6 months since I owned my last Level 3 so I can’t make any comparisons and I didn’t take super detailed notes that I know some people take.  Plus at that time I had MicroZOTL.  Great combo.  With Level 1 I am pretty happy and can say there will be no new DACs for 2018.  Maybe Level 4 for 2019 




T Bone said:


> I have had the level 1 DAC for quite a while now and want to "bump" to the level 3 if I can find one.
> I am thoroughly pleased with the performance of the Spring.  I'd like to compare the level 1 and level 3 head-to-head and see if the upgraded power supply and caps really makes a big difference.


----------



## oneguy

I had the Spring KTE as well as the Gen 5/Analog 2 Yggy in my house for about a month overlap. I think the AES input wins even with the Gen 5 USB input so I used AES but just a generic XLR cable. Without upsampling and listening through headphones I found the Yggy and KTE to be about level although each had its strong suits. Once you started upsampling, the KTE pulled out ahead through speakers though, the KTE couldn’t touch the Yggy at all.


----------



## T Bone

oneguy said:


> i think the AES input wins even with the Gen 5 USB input so I used AES but just a generic XLR cable.


Like most Holo owners, I have my Spring paired with a Singxer SU-1 digital-to-digital converter.   That gives me an I2S output that lets me bypass the receiver chipset on the Spring  and essentially mainline a signal right into the R2R chip.  (gross oversimplification I know)  
I compared the I2S and AES inputs on my Spring and I found the I2S to be superior to AES in every test.  I'm sold on the I2S input - at least with my DAC.  

BTW - I have a premium WireWorld Starlight Gold AES cable that I am no longer using if you're into "audiophile grade" cabling.


----------



## oneguy

Perhaps. PM me. 


T Bone said:


> Like most Holo owners, I have my Spring paired with a Singxer SU-1 digital-to-digital converter.   That gives me an I2S output that lets me bypass the receiver chipset on the Spring  and essentially mainline a signal right into the R2R chip.  (gross oversimplification I know)
> I compared the I2S and AES inputs on my Spring and I found the I2S to be superior to AES in every test.  I'm sold on the I2S input - at least with my DAC.
> 
> BTW - I have a premium WireWorld Starlight Gold AES cable that I am no longer using if you're into "audiophile grade" cabling.


----------



## earnmyturns

oneguy said:


> I had the Spring KTE as well as the Gen 5/Analog 2 Yggy in my house for about a month overlap. I think the AES input wins even with the Gen 5 USB input so I used AES but just a generic XLR cable. Without upsampling and listening through headphones I found the Yggy and KTE to be about level although each had its strong suits. Once you started upsampling, the KTE pulled out ahead through speakers though, the KTE couldn’t touch the Yggy at all.


Similar setup, except that my Yggy is Gen 3/Analog 1. Auralic Aries>AES>Yggy, Allo USBridge>USB>SU-1>I2S>Spring. Like you, I prefer Yggy for speakers, Spring for headphones. Yggy is in the queue for its Analog 2 upgrade, when it goes I'll move the Spring to my speaker system, then when the Yggy gets back I'll leave it burning in in the headphone system for a while, before swapping, it will be fun to compare when I do.


----------



## kank

After trying out the HOLO Spring L3, It is very impressive. 
Recently coming from the Chord Hugo 2, I find the Spring L3 is head and shoulder above the Hugo 2. The sound stage has so much more depth, bass is stronger and more defined, lots of details, little bit warmer sounding than the Hugo2. 
DSD rendition is superb, really happy with it so far. Quite a bargain if you are looking for a DAC only solution.
Now I need to setup the Singxer SU-1 module with it.


----------



## WNBC

Was that based on using the onboard amp or the Hugo2 as a DAC feeding into your amp?  Just curious.  I had preordered one back at the end of Summer 2017 as an all-in-one solution but with the delays I ended up cancelling my order.  I ended up getting the iDSD BL and then ordered the Holo Audio Cyan.  But, that ended up being delayed so I'm back full circle to another Spring.  I am just feeding it FLAC 44.1, but eventually I need to splurge on an upgrade to Amarra 4 to some software that can upsample to DSD.  Tried Roon and JRiver and then did upsampling to iDSD BL.  Didn't necessarily sound better than Amarra 4.  Now that I have Spring I'm out of free trials for Roon, JRiver .  Can try Audivrana and HQPlayer to see the benefits of upsampling for Spring.  For now, I won't be upgrading my computer so I just need some stable desktop player capable of DSD512 upscaling that won't drag down the whole system. 





kank said:


> After trying out the HOLO Spring L3, It is very impressive.
> Recently coming from the Chord Hugo 2, I find the Spring L3 is head and shoulder above the Hugo 2. The sound stage has so much more depth, bass is stronger and more defined, lots of details, little bit warmer sounding than the Hugo2.
> DSD rendition is superb, really happy with it so far. Quite a bargain if you are looking for a DAC only solution.
> Now I need to setup the Singxer SU-1 module with it.


----------



## doraymon

kank said:


> After trying out the HOLO Spring L3, It is very impressive.
> Recently coming from the Chord Hugo 2, I find the Spring L3 is head and shoulder above the Hugo 2. The sound stage has so much more depth, bass is stronger and more defined, lots of details, little bit warmer sounding than the Hugo2.
> DSD rendition is superb, really happy with it so far. Quite a bargain if you are looking for a DAC only solution.
> Now I need to setup the Singxer SU-1 module with it.


I have both and agree completely on your comparison
If you are interested in a few months old SU-1 KTE DDR pm me.


----------



## kank

WNBC said:


> Was that based on using the onboard amp or the Hugo2 as a DAC feeding into your amp?  Just curious.  I had preordered one back at the end of Summer 2017 as an all-in-one solution but with the delays I ended up cancelling my order.  I ended up getting the iDSD BL and then ordered the Holo Audio Cyan.  But, that ended up being delayed so I'm back full circle to another Spring.  I am just feeding it FLAC 44.1, but eventually I need to splurge on an upgrade to Amarra 4 to some software that can upsample to DSD.  Tried Roon and JRiver and then did upsampling to iDSD BL.  Didn't necessarily sound better than Amarra 4.  Now that I have Spring I'm out of free trials for Roon, JRiver .  Can try Audivrana and HQPlayer to see the benefits of upsampling for Spring.  For now, I won't be upgrading my computer so I just need some stable desktop player capable of DSD512 upscaling that won't drag down the whole system.



I tried the Hugo 2 directly to my headphone and via amp. I prefer to have the amp in the chain as I find it adds a bit more body to the music. I am currently using JRiver upscaling to DSD512 too and quite like that (although you do need to turn the volume up a bit with DSD upscaling). I have no luck with the HQPlayer, it keep crashing on me when I start it so pretty much gave up on it.


----------



## kank

doraymon said:


> I have both and agree completely on your comparison
> If you are interested in a few months old SU-1 KTE DDR pm me.


Thanks for the offer, but I have one coming already.


----------



## WNBC

kank said:


> I tried the Hugo 2 directly to my headphone and via amp. I prefer to have the amp in the chain as I find it adds a bit more body to the music. I am currently using JRiver upscaling to DSD512 too and quite like that (although you do need to turn the volume up a bit with DSD upscaling). I have no luck with the HQPlayer, it keep crashing on me when I start it so pretty much gave up on it.



Thanks.  JRiver seemed pretty stable when I tried upsampling to iDSD BL and it is fairly inexpensive.   Time to see what this Matrix X-SPDIF 2 and Spring can do.  I always used SU-1 in the past, but wanted to try something different.


----------



## llamaluv (Feb 13, 2018)

WNBC said:


> Time to see what this Matrix X-SPDIF 2 and Spring can do.



I'm in the process of doing this as well. I'm using the X-SPDIF 2 with my Spring KTE, which just arrived yesterday. No issues using I2S thus far, though I've only tried PCM 44.1K and 96K. Along with the obligatory burn-in, experimenting with PC-based upsampling (PCM 704K and DSD512 hopefully) is next up on the agenda.


----------



## motberg

Thanks guys... looking forward to the Matrix X-SPDIF 2 reviews... especially in comparison to the SU-1


----------



## WNBC

For fun I did try upsampling.  With my Macbook I soon remembered, oh yeah native DSD is not supported.  4X DSD via DoP sounded pretty good.  With limited testing I think I could hear a difference vs non-upsampled, but I do wonder if I would fail a blind test.  Shows me how good the Spring is in NOS mode just playing 44.1 files. 

I did have a PC to try for native DSD.  I now see what you guys mean by needing a more powerful computer.  Surface Pro 3 had popping noise issue at 8X DSD, but when I dropped it down to 4X upsampling there were no problems with native 4X DSD AISO playback.  Again, sounded very good.  I think there is something there and maybe I can just point to an overall clarity or cohesiveness, but it could be expectation bias.  Not sure how critical I'll end up being with formal tests.   Just not enough time for that right now.  

Matrix SPDIF 2 performed well.  All signals passed on to Spring were correctly reported.  No hiccups.  Can't say it sounds better or worse than SU-1 since it has been over 6 months since I've owned one.    

The Surface Pro 3 is an old work computer that I'm just reassigning for music.  Thoughts on native DSD vs DSD via DoP.  Are there audible differences?  My Macbook Pro is more powerful and a better laptop for doing 8X native DSD assuming Apple got it together and supported native DSD without MicroRendu.  My knowledge here is limited so let me know if there is a way to do native DSD512 on a Macbook.


----------



## doraymon

WNBC said:


> For fun I did try upsampling.  With my Macbook I soon remembered, oh yeah native DSD is not supported.  4X DSD via DoP sounded pretty good.  With limited testing I think I could hear a difference vs non-upsampled, but I do wonder if I would fail a blind test.  Shows me how good the Spring is in NOS mode just playing 44.1 files.
> 
> I did have a PC to try for native DSD.  I now see what you guys mean by needing a more powerful computer.  Surface Pro 3 had popping noise issue at 8X DSD, but when I dropped it down to 4X upsampling there were no problems with native 4X DSD AISO playback.  Again, sounded very good.  I think there is something there and maybe I can just point to an overall clarity or cohesiveness, but it could be expectation bias.  Not sure how critical I'll end up being with formal tests.   Just not enough time for that right now.
> 
> ...


I’m very interested in the comparison between Matrix SPDIF 2 and SU-1 but I understand you don’t ha e the latter anymore? Was it a KTE DDR or a standard one?
Thanks for your impressions.


----------



## WNBC

I had just the standard SU-1.  I don't doubt there are improvements over stock SU-1 with the modded versions.  Something to consider in the future I suppose. 



doraymon said:


> I’m very interested in the comparison between Matrix SPDIF 2 and SU-1 but I understand you don’t ha e the latter anymore? Was it a KTE DDR or a standard one?
> Thanks for your impressions.


----------



## kank

Bit of a revelation today, I've recently added the Singxer SU-1 to the HOLO Spring L3. I've been using a few HDMI cables with the unit. I have tried a few different HDMI and I can't believe how much difference the sound actually make from different cables. Ranging from 0.5m to 3m, it is quite fascinating as I am not really a big believer of HDMI cable. 
Ended up getting the Nordost Blue Heaven 1m HDMI and it sounded a fair bit better than the $30-40 generic HDMI cables (of decent quality). So I encourage people to try out different HDMI if you are using the same setup as I am.


----------



## T Bone

kank said:


> Ended up getting the Nordost Blue Heaven 1m HDMI and it sounded a fair bit better than the $30-40 generic HDMI cables (of decent quality). So I encourage people to try out different HDMI if you are using the same setup as I am.


Thanks for sharing your findings!  I tried a few different HDMI cables - mostly because of length; not resolution.  Nordost makes some great gear.


----------



## kingkikapu

Anybody have any experience comparing su-1/spring/gsx mk2 + utopia vs Dave+utopia?


----------



## doraymon

I am selling my 5 months old KTE Spring L3 and KTE SU-1 DDR here in case anyone is interested.
As I wrote more than once it's a stellar DAC which to my ears smashed the Hugo2 when paired with a good headphone amp.
I'm selling it only because I decided to try and upgrade to another (more expensive) stellar DAC.


----------



## bearwarrior

doraymon said:


> I am selling my 5 months old KTE Spring L3 and KTE SU-1 DDR here in case anyone is interested.
> As I wrote more than once it's a stellar DAC which to my ears smashed the Hugo2 when paired with a good headphone amp.
> I'm selling it only because I decided to try and upgrade to another (more expensive) stellar DAC.



Chord DAVE?


----------



## oneguy

doraymon said:


> I am selling my 5 months old KTE Spring L3 and KTE SU-1 DDR here in case anyone is interested.
> As I wrote more than once it's a stellar DAC which to my ears smashed the Hugo2 when paired with a good headphone amp.
> I'm selling it only because I decided to try and upgrade to another (more expensive) stellar DAC.


I regret selling mine. I hope you don’t as well!


----------



## doraymon

bearwarrior said:


> Chord DAVE?


Busted!


----------



## hyde27

Sell Auralic VEGA and buy Holo Audio Spring R2R DAC is an upgrade or downgrade?


----------



## dcguy73

Wow, I just got this DAC yesterday and I was impressed with it right out of the box. Mates nicely with my iCan Pro amp. Looking forward to continued listening as it burns in.


----------



## inthere

dcguy73 said:


> Wow, I just got this DAC yesterday and I was impressed with it right out of the box. Mates nicely with my iCan Pro amp. Looking forward to continued listening as it burns in.



Just wait until it burns in, things are going to get pretty holographic........


----------



## Whitigir

inthere said:


> Just wait until it burns in, things are going to get pretty holographic........


Holographic as in a sense of vertical axis rendering ? The Z axis ?


----------



## elan120

dcguy73 said:


> Wow, I just got this DAC yesterday and I was impressed with it right out of the box. Mates nicely with my iCan Pro amp. Looking forward to continued listening as it burns in.


Congratulations!!!  It is a very capable DAC, I recently modified my SU-1 to accept SOtM sCLK-EX clock signal that is fed by a 10MHz rubidium master clock to send improved signal to Spring DAC, this DAC responded very nicely and show a significant jump in sound quality, so do whatever you can to feed this DAC with best signal possible, it will play excellent music in return.  Very happy with this DAC.


----------



## ZenErik (Apr 4, 2018)

Any impressions on the Holo Audio Spring level 3 vs Metrum Onyx? Thanks! I've been looking through some of the Pavane mentions as well since that might be close enough of a comparison.


----------



## tkcha

Hi  fellow HOLO Spring DAC owners or somebody wanna buy DAC .  6 weeks ago I upgraded new XMOS U208 usb board and Audio Sensibility Signature Silver USB V2 Cable. It was huge sound  change blacker background noise, more dynamic, more 3D effect ETC But 2 weeks ago I got Isoacoustics Orea Indigo,Bordeaux footers under DAC and Aurender N100H music server and Allnic phonostage and amp.   My whole system sound now so much change first time in my audiophile life I am in heaven. I recommend either new XMOS board, Audio sensibility usb cable,Isoacoustics Orea footers. !!


----------



## musicmaker

Why post this is a Holo thread ? I love my Holo Spring Kitsune L3 and highly recommend it.


----------



## tkcha

because It is Holo Spring DAC  did you read I own HOLO Spring DAC and I recommend for owner of HOLO Spring DAC.


----------



## ZenErik

I smell snake oil.


----------



## tkcha

I just believe in my ears and try yourself and verdict after that.  I believe in everything and try everything.


----------



## bflat

tkcha said:


> I just believe in my ears and try yourself and verdict after that.  I believe in everything and try everything.



Did you try the i2S input on the Holo DAC? That has universally been accepted as the best sound quality, but that was in comparison to the original XMOS USB input. The order of preferences was:

i2S > AES > SPDIF > USB


----------



## tkcha (Apr 12, 2018)

AS already I mentioned before New XMOS U208 usb board is different animal with better clock It was huge upgraded compare to old XMOS usb board IT could be same or better to I2S input for less hustle or money. Coast for new board is 129.99 plus shiping. now you talking less cable ,less small box to deal with it altogether better or equal to I2S input. Also anybody interesting to upgrade better usb cable look for Audio Sensibility Signature Silver USB V2 Cable. IT is Revolution I compare to Wireworld Platinum 7, Audio Quest Diamond usb cable both no contest to Audio Sensibility cable.


----------



## tkcha

And also always importance of  dedicate music server or streamer. For all who still use PC for your source better try dedicate server. It is must for me.


----------



## rocky500

tkcha said:


> AS already I mentioned before New XMOS U208 usb board is different animal with better clock It was huge upgraded compare to old XMOS usb board IT could be same or better to I2S input for less hustle or money. Coast for new board is 129.99 plus shiping. now you talking less cable ,less small box to deal with it altogether better or equal to I2S input. Also anybody interesting to upgrade better usb cable look for Audio Sensibility Signature Silver USB V2 Cable. IT is Revolution I compare to Wireworld Platinum 7, Audio Quest Diamond usb cable both no contest to Audio Sensibility cable.



Where does one buy the New XMOS U208 usb board?
I would be interested. Does it fit inside to replace the original board? Is it from Holo Audio?


----------



## tkcha

It is from Tim, kitsunehifi.


----------



## musicmaker (Apr 12, 2018)

.


----------



## WNBC

Did Tim say IT could be the same or better than I2S?  That would be interesting.  I've always understood I2S to be the most way direct way to get the signal to the DAC and for USB to be now on par or better would indeed be interesting.

How easy to install?  No rush here as I'm pretty content with performance via I2S.  



tkcha said:


> AS already I mentioned before New XMOS U208 usb board is different animal with better clock It was huge upgraded compare to old XMOS usb board IT could be same or better to I2S input for less hustle or money. Coast for new board is 129.99 plus shiping. now you talking less cable ,less small box to deal with it altogether better or equal to I2S input. Also anybody interesting to upgrade better usb cable look for Audio Sensibility Signature Silver USB V2 Cable. IT is Revolution I compare to Wireworld Platinum 7, Audio Quest Diamond usb cable both no contest to Audio Sensibility cable.


----------



## tkcha (Apr 13, 2018)

He  didnt say anything and I didnt ask but Lets say old usb input board was weakest input even compare to other input, because IT had bad clock so most HOLO user use  Kitsune Singer SU-1 or stock Singer Su-1 by pass clock and use SU-1 clock instead but if you check specs New XMOS U208 board. They have same clock so it hard to claim better sound but least same in case who use stock Singer SU-1 but for me New usb board doing very good job dont want bother with extra boxes and cables so for you it might be no gain for sound qualiyt but  who knows listening is believing try, you have nothing to loose and only gain.  It better than Old usb board  way way better.


----------



## bimmer100 (Apr 13, 2018)

Tae,
The xu208 module does not have the same clocks as the Singxer su1. I’m not sure where you are getting that info from.
And yes to clarify, I have never said that the xmos u8 or xmos xu208 module is better than the Hdmi i2s input. I want to be sure facts are straight and nobody is confused with your posts you have made. I’m very happy for you that you are enjoying your dad along with the xu208 module.

But the short of it, the only thing the Singxer su1 and he holoaudio xu208 usb module share alike is the xmos chip. That’s it!
Singxer su1 has femto crystek clocks, and depending if you have 2018 version or previous version, they are different freq sets of crystek clocks. Also 2018 model now has new 4way circuit (no more lvds) for i2s and improved Hdmi connector. Improved firmware for fpga, improved Spdif, more official support for dacs.
The clocks in the new holoaudio xu208 module are quite good but not the same as in the su1. I need to clarify that as when I read Tae’s post it reads to me that it’s claimed to be the same. I am trying to clarify so no one is confused with that post. Maybe you borrowed an su1 to make these claims, but last we talked you were not interested to try the su1 for some particular reasons you had. And that’s ok, I think the xu208 module was a good small step in the right direction.

Also, the older xmos u8 module was never a bad usb module. People criticized it yet the measurements would show its much better than majority of usb implementations. It’s just that our i2s input has been the best or most desirable especially if you enjoy dsd native.

I’m not sure what extra boxes or cables you may speak of Tae. But if you may be talking about an isolator, then neither our usb module or the su1 have the same isolation that is capable from the box I think you might be referring to.

On a side note, we have been shipping spring dacs with the new xu208 module for a while now. And will update you with when that change happened. But some of you likely already have the module in your dac and not knowing it. But you could tell by seeing what the driver tells you. Whether it’s an xmos u8 or xu208 in the control panel of the Asio driver under info. But I could be wrong, I will double check tonight to verify. And also give some dates on which dacs May have this module installed. If you are using an su1 I personally would stick to what you have. But for some who want a better usb module and are not using an su1 or kte su1 than yes, it’s a good alternative that is a natable improvement compared to the standard xmos u8 module.

Hope this clarifies things. And if I have to edit any of this I will. I am rarely ever to post on Headfi except for when one asks if I quoted something. And I did not say this module is better than i2s. 
Thank you to everyone who chooses our products! We are so blessed to have such enthusiastic customers.

Best,

-Tim @KitsuneHiFi


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the info.  @KitsuneHiFi

I received a new Spring in late December so good to know that it might have the upgraded USB module already.  I never really checked since I always went in via I2S.  

I do recall talk of the new Holo Audio Cyan having improved USB implementation so it sounds like the Spring was also upgraded along the same lines.


----------



## WNBC

I must admit that I'm pretty cheap when it comes to cables.

Audio Sensibility Signature Silver USB V2 Cable is not a cheap cable.  Is most of the benefit to sound quality coming from this cable or the new USB board?  Considering the cost of that cable one can easily get better sound quality via I2S with a DDC like the SU-1 or Matrix Audio SPDIF-2 plus cheap HMDI cable.  

At the very least it would be a fun shootout at a Head-fi meet:
USB: Audio Sensibility Signature Silver USB V2 Cable *vs* I2S: standard USB cable + SU-1 *vs* I2S:  Audio Sensibility Signature Silver USB V2 Cable + SU-1




tkcha said:


> AS already I mentioned before New XMOS U208 usb board is different animal with better clock It was huge upgraded compare to old XMOS usb board IT could be same or better to I2S input for less hustle or money. Coast for new board is 129.99 plus shiping. now you talking less cable ,less small box to deal with it altogether better or equal to I2S input. I Also anybody interesting to upgrade better usb cable look for Audio Sensibility Signature Silver USB V2 Cable. IT is Revolution I compare to Wireworld Platinum 7, Audio Quest Diamond usb cable both no contest to Audio Sensibility cable.


----------



## bimmer100

Gosh, I don’t even want to get started with cables. Especially usb cables. As I can’t post my thoughts on that to these forums anyhow.  hahaha. 
Many miss the very important facts about usb cables.


----------



## WNBC

Gotcha.  You should create a special little forum or blog on your website to discuss these things.  

By cheap I tend to stay around $100 or less.  

WireWorld Starlight 7 USB cable
WireWorld Equinox 7 balanced interconnects
Apollo HDMI cable
BlueJeans RCA interconnects


----------



## tkcha

I never claimed Tim said better or same.  I wanna clearer that and always you can claim on your own experience nothing hurts and   I am not against his claim but Ive read about new XU 208 board have a new clock but He knows his product better than me. And he is Singer su-1 seller too.  Now about Audio sensibility cable, ( WNBC) try this cable I was shocked that was so much better than Wireworld Platinum starlight, Audio Quest Diamond usb cable so only try and verdict later and I upgraded before New usb board change . I was talked about Intona and reclocking device and more in between source and DAC and power supply . SO you need few more cable and HDMI cable also power cable all that.  If you willing to go that far but not wanna spend few more bucks for better quality cable. I am not sure If it is snake oil than no more discus is necessary. Some how nobody interesting on after market footers or vibration device which Isoacoustics Orea footer was my last touch seems like nobody care I scratched my head !!   Every thing I said is YMMV or YMMD
I hope every owners of HOLO Spring DAC have happy listening !!


----------



## whirlwind

Great info Tim.

Thank you.


----------



## tkcha

If somebody have better system than other peoples. All those upgraded  maybe magnifying abilities your system even further more than less system.


----------



## chaos215bar2

WNBC said:


> Gotcha.  You should create a special little forum or blog on your website to discuss these things.
> 
> By cheap I tend to stay around $100 or less.
> 
> ...



Eh…. For USB, I’d call $5 cheap, $12 a good target, and $25 extravagant, but whatever works for you. You can certainly spend a whole lot more than $100 if you want to.


----------



## WNBC

Yes, it’s all relative.  There are cables that cost more than all the headphone equipment I have and a single cable costing $100 can cost more than all cables a single person might have by a large margin.  Use whatever works for you.  



chaos215bar2 said:


> Eh…. For USB, I’d call $5 cheap, $12 a good target, and $25 extravagant, but whatever works for you. You can certainly spend a whole lot more than $100 if you want to.


----------



## nick77

If your using a $12 cable on a $2500 DAC then good luck with that notion. I hope your able to try something that compliments the Holo Spring.


----------



## tkcha

For me prejudice without actual test results is your loos. Open your mind and experienceing for  between good to the great.


----------



## ZenErik

nick77 said:


> If your using a $12 cable on a $2500 DAC then good luck with that notion. I hope your able to try something that compliments the Holo Spring.


implying you need a more expensive cable to complement an expensive DAC? But you can also get a much cheaper and still well made USB cable that complies with USB spec. 

That said, I don’t mind paying a bit more for aesthetics at times.


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 13, 2018)

nick77 said:


> If your using a $12 cable on a $2500 DAC then good luck with that notion. I hope your able to try something that compliments the Holo Spring.


So basically your logic is, not expensive enough, so therefore, not good enough. Not really a logic or have anything reasonable in the statement. Just something to move to the side as a silly thought.


----------



## nick77

No im saying your leaving a lot on the table, you get what you pay for. Period!


----------



## tkcha

Let me ask everybody I spend more money on music server, cables and footers than the  DAC.     Am I crazy or stupid ?  
Which my Aurender N100H is more expansive than DAC and my power cable and Intona, two usb cables and Isiacoustis Orea footers together more than DAC itself but now together all that my digital system can compete with much higher price point. For me everything is matter.


----------



## SilverEars (Apr 13, 2018)

nick77 said:


> No im saying your leaving a lot on the table, you get what you pay for. Period!


I never had cables go bad on me besides wear over very very long period of time.  Cheap to pricier(but, not scammy audiophile prices! I never pay that!  I'm not a sucker!).


----------



## arnaud

tkcha said:


> Let me ask everybody I spend more money on music server, cables and footers than the  DAC.     Am I crazy or stupid ?


I think you’re the perfect target for audio accessory manufacturers, that is all .


----------



## tkcha

That is good one  or call me a sucker but Who cares.  Everybody enjoy The music that is all about it.


----------



## gefski

bimmer100 said:


> Gosh, I don’t even want to get started with cables. Especially usb cables. As I can’t post my thoughts on that to these forums anyhow.  hahaha.
> Many miss the very important facts about usb cables.



Nice Holo review in the May Stereophile!


----------



## bimmer100

Thanks for the kind words! and also keeping this thread on track! 

on another subject to those who are wondering if they have the XU208 module in their spring. check the Asio driver control panel.
under the info section there is a Revision number. if it is greater than v20.00
such as v20.16 or v21.12 are the two firmware for XU208 modules.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Have the opportunity to try Exogal Comet Plus for a week. After couple hours of listening, it competes well with Holo Spring Level 3. I still think that Spring LVL 3 has a smoother top end, better holographic and more analog sounding. Will update the comparison in a week.


----------



## rlkeel0

bimmer100 said:


> Thanks for the kind words! and also keeping this thread on track!
> 
> on another subject to those who are wondering if they have the XU208 module in their spring. check the Asio driver control panel.
> under the info section there is a Revision number. if it is greater than v20.00
> such as v20.16 or v21.12 are the two firmware for XU208 modules.



Anyway to know this by manufacture date?  My Spring is in a rack attached to a microrendu and SU-1.


----------



## bimmer100 (Apr 14, 2018)

rlkeel0 said:


> Anyway to know this by manufacture date?  My Spring is in a rack attached to a microrendu and SU-1.


If you have an su1 I would recommend to stick with that.
But only a rough estimate I can give you for dacs shipped around Chinese New Year started to get the xu208. But the easiest way is to plug in a usb cable to the dac and check the driver revision number as I stated. As this is the only way to confirm or be sure what you have. 

But if one is using an su1 I personally recommend to use your su1. Yes, both have The xu208 chip. However, that means little since the implementations are very different from su1 and HoloAudio usb module. The fpga and firmware for su1 has an effect, the crystek clocks and if you have kte version there are all the mods along with many other things I could go into. 

Or you can go to our website to see photos of instructions to open the dac and visually inspect the usb module to confirm which one you have.

Also we are releasing specific firmware updates for the spring xu208 module very soon along with a new driver coming very soon. I’m still working on the final testing and hope it to be ready in a few weeks. Stay tuned on our website.


The cyan dac has the updated firmware specifically for the cyan and drivers specifically for the cyan.  Our firmware between each are same numbers however designed specifically for spring or specific for Cyan.


----------



## WNBC

Just checked and I have the newer XU208.  I received my DAC a couple weeks ahead of the Chinese New Year.  I will give USB a listen tonight.  Always been I2S up until now, but can't hurt to hear how the other inputs sound.



bimmer100 said:


> If you have an su1 I would recommend to stick with that.
> But only a rough estimate I can give you for dacs shipped around Chinese New Year started to get the xu208. But the easiest way is to plug in a usb cable to the dac and check the driver revision number as I stated. As this is the only way to confirm or be sure what you have.
> 
> But if one is using an su1 I personally recommend to use your su1. Yes, both have The xu208 chip. However, that means little since the implementations are very different from su1 and HoloAudio usb module. The fpga and firmware for su1 has an effect, the crystek clocks and if you have kte version there are all the mods along with many other things I could go into.
> ...


----------



## nick77

@bimmer100 Will the Holo update be for those only with new USB chip or will all Spring benefit??


----------



## llamaluv

WNBC said:


> Just checked and I have the newer XU208. I received my DAC a couple weeks ahead of the Chinese New Year. I will give USB a listen tonight. Always been I2S up until now, but can't hurt to hear how the other inputs sound.



Another data point here... My L3 Kitsune unit shipped out from Hong Kong on Feb. 10 has firmware version 20.16, so would have the XU208. This is also the first time I've connected by USB, since I've been using the Matrix X-SPDIF 2 to connect to I2S since day one. No obvious sound quality differences, but I don't have the patience to A/B test intently on a Sunday morning.


----------



## llamaluv

bimmer100 said:


> Singxer su1 has femto crystek clocks, and depending if you have 2018 version or previous version, they are different freq sets of crystek clocks. Also 2018 model now has new 4way circuit (no more lvds) for i2s and improved Hdmi connector. Improved firmware for fpga, improved Spdif, more official support for dacs.



This is the first I've heard about an upgrade to the SU-1. For those who are receptive to audiophile nervosa, this thickens the plot even further, haha. To me, an ideal shootout would test the following combinations:

Holo Spring with the older XMOS U8 module, directly connected to USB
Holo Spring with the newer XMOS XU208 module, directly connected to USB
Holo Spring connected to I2S via pre-upgraded SU-1
Holo Spring connected to I2S via this reported 2018 revision of SU-1

Holo Spring connected to I2S via Matrix X-SPDIF 2 (for the few people like myself that have this setup)


----------



## nick77

> bimmer100 said: ↑
> Singxer su1 has femto crystek clocks, and depending if you have 2018 version or previous version, they are different freq sets of crystek clocks. Also 2018 model now has new 4way circuit (no more lvds) for i2s and improved Hdmi connector. Improved firmware for fpga, improved Spdif, more official support for dacs.



Would this upgrade warrant people buying a new board for their pre 2018 SU-1 and is that an option? Any discernible sonic improvement in 2018 version?


----------



## WNBC

I did quick side by side test of USB (same 20.16) vs I2S.  I have Spring L1.  I do think there is a subtle but noticeable more dynamic punch for lack of better words with I2S over USB.  The USB sounded a tad flatter and less holographic.  I am fully aware that it could be just expectation bias and would need to do a blind AB test to say all of this with confidence.  With that said, it wasn't super striking a difference so that does show how good the new USB module is.  I have had a Spring L3 + stock SU-1 in the past, but it's been close to a year since that combo so I can't say that SU-1 is better or worse than my Matrix X-SPDIF 2.  I'm fine keeping the X-SPDIF 2 as I don't feel it is hurting performance.  Would fun to do a shootout with stock SU-1 vs stock X-SPDIF 2.    




llamaluv said:


> Another data point here... My L3 Kitsune unit shipped out from Hong Kong on Feb. 10 has firmware version 20.16, so would have the XU208. This is also the first time I've connected by USB, since I've been using the Matrix X-SPDIF 2 to connect to I2S since day one. No obvious sound quality differences, but I don't have the patience to A/B test intently on a Sunday morning.


----------



## Contrails

I decided to switch from NOS to OS DS for the sake of experimenting.  OS DS sounds a little less aggressive than NOS.  What's everyone's preference?


----------



## Jay Smith (Aug 4, 2022)

=


----------



## Don Quichotte

WNBC said:


> I did quick side by side test of USB (same 20.16) vs I2S.  I have Spring L1.  I do think there is a subtle but noticeable more dynamic punch for lack of better words with I2S over USB.  The USB sounded a tad flatter and less holographic.  I am fully aware that it could be just expectation bias and would need to do a blind AB test to say all of this with confidence.  With that said, it wasn't super striking a difference so that does show how good the new USB module is.  I have had a Spring L3 + stock SU-1 in the past, but it's been close to a year since that combo so I can't say that SU-1 is better or worse than my Matrix X-SPDIF 2.  I'm fine keeping the X-SPDIF 2 as I don't feel it is hurting performance.  Would fun to do a shootout with stock SU-1 vs stock X-SPDIF 2.



Hi! How is the Spring L1 compared to Spring L3?



Jay Smith said:


> Please help me for the dacs decision between Holo Audio Spring, Chord Hugo2/ Qutest.  I have Mojo/ Beyerdynamic T1.2/ Icon audio HP8 mk2 amp/ Audeze Deckard as Dac.  Mojo is good but sometimes it sounds too forward to me, Yes it is excited but not for longtime listening, hence I use Deckard as Dac most of the time because it sounds less forward and I can listen it very long time.  I mainly use Tidal thru Audirvana Plus, DSD is not essential to me.  Any comments are welcome, Thank you.



I haven't heard it, but people seem to sugest that Metrum Onyx is a relaxed, easy going Dac approximately in your price range...


----------



## Jay Smith

Don Quichotte said:


> Hi! How is the Spring L1 compared to Spring L3?
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't heard it, but people seem to sugest that Metrum Onyx is a relaxed, easy going Dac approximately in your price range...


Thank you for the suggestion.  However, Metrum dealer is not around in my area, so my initial choices are limited to Spring and Chord, both got a lot of reviewer positive feedback.....


----------



## T Bone

Contrails said:


> I decided to switch from NOS to OS DS for the sake of experimenting.  OS DS sounds a little less aggressive than NOS.  What's everyone's preference?


I have tried all of the oversampling modes and none of them feel like an improvement over the NOS mode.
NOS just feels more natural.  I think you'll find that the consensus of owners is that NOS sounds best.
YMMV - if OS DSD sounds good to you, rock on!


----------



## bimmer100

Just to add note to this. 99% seem to agree that NOS sounds best. And Jeff wrote that article “Nos vs OS” to further explain in detail. Which I truly believe and agree with his words. However we decided to add an oversampling SRC from AK or Asahi Kasei. And many consider it to be a decent Sample rate converter.  But when you are in any OS mode it runs through the SRC and hen to the discrete dac module and most agree seems to lose its life when compared to perfec time domain with the NOS output. The spring and cyan have ever so slight different variants of the SRC as far as filters.
Ak4137 is the src type, in Cyan it uses the minimum delay filter so it is better in sound character but worse in sound stage. We believe most Cyan users are using headphones so sound stage is not as noticeable for them, This is an optimization. The spring does not have this filter enabled and better suited for loud speaker output when using OS modes. The difference is less dramatic when using loudspeakers with spring dac, and more dramatic of difference with headphones and spring dac. 
And the other way around when using cyan. More dramatic when using loudspeakers and less dramatic when using headphones (cyan). 
Hope this makes sense. Either way.... nearly no one prefers OS regarldless of the minimum delay filter being implemented on the Cyan’s internal src(AK4137chip)

Best,

-Tim


----------



## bimmer100

nick77 said:


> Would this upgrade warrant people buying a new board for their pre 2018 SU-1 and is that an option? Any discernible sonic improvement in 2018 version?



I can’t really answer this. But someone can do a shootout if they would like. I’ve got demo models available of both type. And also the new xu208 module for spring is now available. It’s very similar to what we use in the cyan, with new xmos chip. Or same xmos chip as su1. However su1 has many other components like its fpga, custom firmware and noise shaping, Femto clocks etc and the new 2018 model did away with the lvds Hdmi i2s chip and using an improved 4way custom circuit. 
Really, before long someone will likely test them all. I will keep my opinion to myself. And believe there is no bad options!  how about that?


----------



## Contrails

Thanks for the detailed reply Tim.  I will keep experimenting.  I am using the DAC to feed loudspeakers.  BTW, which Bavarian Chariot do you drive?


----------



## Thenewguy007

Don't know if anyone posted this yet, but a absolutely glowing review from Stereophile.com

https://www.stereophile.com/content/holoaudio-spring-kitsuné-tuned-edition-level-3-da-processor

Compared it very favorably over the Yggdrasil & the Mytek Manhattan II.


----------



## Contrails

Any recommendations for a reasonably priced Network Streamer with AES/i2s output?


----------



## T Bone

Contrails said:


> Any recommendations for a reasonably priced Network Streamer with AES/i2s output?


Question about streamers is a bit off topic for this thread, but I understand that an I2S streamer would pair perfectly with your Holo Spring.
I would suggest that you consider the Mano ULTRA from Magna HiFi.  It's a Raspberry PI based device with I2S output.  
Hans Beekhuyzen did a review of an earlier version for the Mano.  You can watch his review on YouTube here.


----------



## T Bone

Thenewguy007 said:


> a absolutely glowing review from Stereophile.com



The HoloAudio Spring is a member of *an interesting but nearly extinct subfamily of D/A converters called R-2R* or ladder DACs.


----------



## kingkikapu

T Bone said:


> The HoloAudio Spring is a member of *an interesting but nearly extinct subfamily of D/A converters called R-2R* or ladder DACs.



My inner Hulk came out when I read that!

Stereophile SMASH!!


----------



## T Bone

I read the entire review and thought it was great.  I also noticed two comments from the author/reviewer Herb Reichert that bear sharing:

(1) His listening tests were done with a Singxer SU-1 providing an I2S input to the Spring.  
(2) This interesting quote, "_this review was the most difficult review I've written so far. To effectively characterize the Holo Spring while putting its low price and original engineering into the proper historical perspective was a real challenge_"


----------



## TubeDriver

bimmer100 said:


> I can’t really answer this. But someone can do a shootout if they would like. I’ve got demo models available of both type. And also the new xu208 module for spring is now available. It’s very similar to what we use in the cyan, with new xmos chip. Or same xmos chip as su1. However su1 has many other components like its fpga, custom firmware and noise shaping, Femto clocks etc and the new 2018 model did away with the lvds Hdmi i2s chip and using an improved 4way custom circuit.
> Really, before long someone will likely test them all. I will keep my opinion to myself. And believe there is no bad options!  how about that?



I have upgraded the USB XMOS module in my Holo Spring from the older U8 to the newer XU208 module.  Hard to really compare side by side but I hear a slight increase in transparency and detail (particularly at higher freq ie. air/recording space cues).


----------



## gr8soundz

Thenewguy007 said:


> Don't know if anyone posted this yet, but a absolutely glowing review from Stereophile.com
> 
> https://www.stereophile.com/content/holoaudio-spring-kitsuné-tuned-edition-level-3-da-processor
> 
> Compared it very favorably over the Yggdrasil & the Mytek Manhattan II.



Very good review (imo; normally try to avoid that site but curious to read their opinion of the Holo Spring). I had similar revelations about R2R while reviewing the dac1101. Implementation is more important but I now have a hard time buying anything delta-sigma.

Still researching my next DAC and goal is to use a direct i2S feed from PC but current solutions are limited to PCM only. It'd be nice to have a discrete DAC do the 'heavy lifting' to DSD (for those times when I might prefer it over NOS) and to avoid past hiccups doing it via PC. Seems few DACs do this and, til now, I wasn't aware the Spring had a DSD oversampling mode. Does anyone know how high the Spring's OS-DSD mode goes?


----------



## xenithon

Quick question - has anyone compared the Holo Cyan against the Audio-GD R2R-11? Been looking for an AIO unit with a ladder DAC and there aren't many around. I read that the Cyan is warmer and more musical than the Soekris 1541, but haven't seen any comparisons to the R2R-11.


----------



## BoomBox

I'm thinking of picking one up soon... still undecided on which level... I am curious how easy it would be to convert a 110v unit into a 220v unit, or vice versa. 

Has anyone tried this? The red/green label copper/silver toroidal transformers seem identical in the 110v and 220v versions, and the Talema transformer supports both too...

Is anyone able to tell me what that black switch next to the blue Talema  70050K (70050K?) transformer is? Is it a voltage switch?




 

If it's not a voltage switch, could someone explain to me how the 110V and 220V units differentiate?


----------



## Peaceofmind

Yes that black switch is a 110V to 220V input switch.  My understanding is that this switch is only on Holo DAC sold by Tim.  It’s a simple matter of moving the switch to which input voltage you’re using and you must also change the fuse.  The fuse value for 110V is 4 amp and 220V is 2 amp.  Yes, I have changed the input voltage on my Holo DAC level 3 when I moved from California to the Philippines with no issues.


----------



## Maxx134 (Jun 19, 2018)

earnmyturns said:


> Very happy with my Spring KTE 3. A bit more edgy/primary colors than the Yggy, but for some orchestral music, it is a tad more involving than the Yggy.


Same observations here.
Upon listening side by side with yggy (original version),
Is still confirmed my initial observations that the Holo was more involving and I was also able to pick up nuances that were still obersvable, but totally overlooked when played thru yggy.
This comparison was using Holo Spring Lvl 1 (!)..





inthere said:


> I sold my Holo Audio Spring Level 3 DAC about 8 months ago and bought a Gen 3 Yggdrasil to replace it. I don't know if the I2S output is responsible (The Yggy doesn't have I2S) but the Holo is a clear step up in clarity and quality. Still using the SU-1 but going AES now instead. Going to sell my Yggy soon and crawl back to the Level 3.......


The Holo is so much at similar level to yggy that I do not miss mine and prefer the Holo more involving nature over the more "relaxed" yggy presentation.
This analogy is not exactly how I like to deacribe it, but close enough.



T Bone said:


> I had a chance to listen to a Schiit Ygdrassil this weekend at the Phoenix Head-Fi meet.  I played a couple of test tracks that I know very well and found that I still prefer my Holo Spring (a level 1)
> Maybe its confirmation bias, maybe it was the rest of the system.


Your initial "gut" impression is usually more accurate to what you prefer.
I have same preference of the Holo Spring Lvl1 over the yggy (A-board).




Thenewguy007 said:


> Don't know if anyone posted this yet, but a absolutely glowing review from Stereophile.com
> 
> https://www.stereophile.com/content/holoaudio-spring-kitsuné-tuned-edition-level-3-da-processor
> 
> Compared it very favorably over the Yggdrasil & the Mytek Manhattan II.



Regardless of whatever point of view one may have about "Stereofile",
The review was actually very accurate as I had similar overall impressions.
Personally I am convinced that the differences are greater detailing on the Spring,
While greater depth/distance on the yggy.
Both aspects in small but noticable amounts.

I prefer the width and detailing of the Holo Spring Lvl1 which gives me slightly greater immersion and involvement over the yggy's more centered (literally) presentation.

Edit:
Both have that incredible palpable lifelike presentation, so can't go wrong with either.

They also both get similarly hot, yet the yggy still cooks hotter...


----------



## Contrails

Anyone do a comparison between XLR and SE outputs of the DAC? What were you thoughts? cheers.


----------



## rocky500

Contrails said:


> Anyone do a comparison between XLR and SE outputs of the DAC? What were you thoughts? cheers.



Post 116 here - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac.810065/page-8#post-12878950

I read this earlier when I got mine and just used XLR. Also since my Preamp had them. 

_"I think these two pictures can explain the true balance very well. The bottom side has the same resistor ladders as top side.

XLR is using all of the circuit and RCA is just using half of them. The balanced output has the better performance(THD, noise) and also better common mode rejection rate. If your listening environment contains interference, either from AC power or from air. Then you will find a full balanced system can really help a lot.
Best Regards
Jeff Zhu"_


----------



## bimmer100 (Jun 21, 2018)

Contrails said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply Tim.  I will keep experimenting.  I am using the DAC to feed loudspeakers.  BTW, which Bavarian Chariot do you drive?



 my wife and I drive matching bavarian chariots, at least for the most part. Both are 435i's, yet her's is a grancoupe and mine is a coupe. She has the hot red leather interior. It's used mostly to transport lots of packages to the post office 

-----

and to your recent post,  the Spring Dac module is only half used when in SE mode or RCA output. and the entire dac module is used for balanced mode or XLR. XLR has better common mode noise rejection of course, but to most people it will be hard to tell much difference between the two outputs.  5V for XLR and 2.5V for RCA outputs... So if you can match volume of both inputs its likely it will be hard to tell the difference in most situations. Some may claim differences though.   Using interconnects that are the same for RCA and same for XLR would be needed to compare between them fairly. and a preamp or integrated amp that also is well built to accept either SE or Balanced.   I would be curious to hear from anyone who has tried them and had any significant differences.



rocky500 said:


> Post 116 here - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/holo-audio-spring-r2r-dac.810065/page-8#post-12878950
> 
> I read this earlier when I got mine and just used XLR. Also since my Preamp had them.
> 
> ...



Exactly!   in most cases if the setup doesn't have an environment of excessive noise, it will be hard to tell the difference. XLR balanced will just ensure the very best sound quality, so most will prefer to use this output.  Personally I use both outputs... one goes to a headamp and another to a preamp. Our other two Spring dacs are setup in a similar way too. Both outputs actually work simultaneously and seems to be another common question I get a lot!  odd, but I never use them at the same time, but its nice to have outputs to multiple pieces of gear. Most people may want to have a loudspeaker system and headamp system hooked up to their dac.


----------



## Contrails (Jun 21, 2018)

Thanks mate.

Oh I bet the 4 series drives real nice.  I love the coupes.  I have a 87 M535i and a F20 hatch for daily duties.


----------



## joseph69

bimmer100 said:


> Both outputs actually work simultaneously and seems to be another common question I get a lot! odd, but I never use them at the same time, but its nice to have outputs to multiple pieces of gear.


Just curious. I have my L/R XLR outputs from my KTE Spring connected to 2 different headphone amps (GS-X/BHSE) with Y splitters. I only power on 1 amp at a time, and I've never tried to split the output signal simultaneously with the 2 amps powered on. What would happen if I tried splitting the output signal simultaneously to the 2 amps powered on? Of course I've never tried this because I wouldn't want cause damage to either my DAC or amps which is why I'm asking.


----------



## bimmer100

joseph69 said:


> Just curious. I have my L/R XLR outputs from my KTE Spring connected to 2 different headphone amps (GS-X/BHSE) with Y splitters. I only power on 1 amp at a time, and I've never tried to split the output signal simultaneously with the 2 amps powered on. What would happen if I tried splitting the output signal simultaneously to the 2 amps powered on? Of course I've never tried this because I wouldn't want cause damage to either my DAC or amps which is why I'm asking.



I personally have not done specifically what you are asking. I do know at all the Audio events that Headamp attends, they will do this at their booth. They use our KTE Spring dac and xlr splitters to their two amps, the gsx mk2 and blue Hawaii se. So I know it should work. I would have to check to see what downsides it has. I don’t think I would recommend this setup for normal use, but do know they have had success.


----------



## joseph69

bimmer100 said:


> I personally have not done specifically what you are asking. I do know at all the Audio events that Headamp attends, they will do this at their booth. They use our KTE Spring dac and xlr splitters to their two amps, the gsx mk2 and blue Hawaii se. So I know it should work. I would have to check to see what downsides it has. I don’t think I would recommend this setup for normal use, but do know they have had success.


Interesting that HeadAmp has done this at their booth.
I would have thought this wouldn't be a good idea. I was demoing my headphones & amps for a friend, but wouldn't dare do this, so we had to wait a little to do some listening between switching amps so they could warm up a little. He also agreed with me that I never tried this after I told him the DAC is feeding both amps via XLR splitters Thanks for the reply.


----------



## MichaelXX2 (Jun 28, 2018)

It's been almost 7 months now and I'm still very happy with my Holo Spring lvl 1. I used it in the NOS mode for a long time, but I recently switched to the OS mode and I've found that equally as enjoyable. I thought my music sounded good with my old system, but when I replaced my AR3-a speakers with Vandersteen 5as, the DAC really showed off what it could do. I've never heard _Helplessness Blues_ sound better. Orchestra recordings are phenomenal. The DAC measures great and sounds even better! I was worried that the DAC would fall off and be written off as another flavor of the month DAC, but the Stereophile review seems to have ignited a surge in popularity for this company again. The Cyan was a great addition to the Holo line of products, for people who only care about PCM or DSD but not both.

Have you guys ever considered making a CD or SACD player with NOS and OS modes, and digital inputs? I would buy one in a heartbeat to simplify my hi-fi a bit.


----------



## swampsong (Jul 1, 2018)

looks like the price went up on them... 1699 for the base model now... 1899 for level 2... and 2649 for level 3... i'm pretty sure it was about 200 cheaper for each one


----------



## whirlwind

swampsong said:


> looks like the price went up on them... 1699 for the base model now... 1899 for level 2... and 2649 for level 3... i'm pretty sure it was about 200 cheaper for each one



I think I paid $2500 when I got mine....so maybe it has went up about $150.
I would not sweat it too much....this is a killer dac...what a game changer in my system.


----------



## swampsong

Yea i went ahead and ordered that package that came with the Singxer SU-1, it was 1850 something out the door not a bad deal, with an hdmi cable too

i just can afford the base model right now... well i could afford more but sheesh i have spent so much the last month already...


----------



## Contrails

Swapsong even the base model is a steal at its price.


----------



## Blueswyh

I am using a base model too in my speaker system. It is amazing for both music from a raspberry pi streamer and watching movie from a oppo bdp 103. So open, clean  yet organic and rich. Upon the first few hours listening, it really reminded me of the tape recorder I had in college days. It makes me dare to and want to turn the volume up and up.


----------



## TubeDriver

I have sort of done the XLR vs RCA ouput comparison.  I have 2 identical sets cryoed DNM interconnects.  On set with RCA connectors and one set with XLR connectors at source (Holo Spring) end (pin 2 hot, pin 3 floating) and RCA connectirs at preamp end.   Volume matching is not an issue as I am only taking the + leg off the XLR outputs.

Probably should not hear any difference but I do.   The pseudo XLR cable connection sounds smoother, more balanced top to bottom with better low frequency reproduction,  The RCA output connection sounds a little brasher, highs sound a tiny bit spitty by comparison.

Perhaps I am just hearing an improvement due to the Neutrek XLR connectors compared to the low mass RCA connectors but the sound difference is consistent and easy to hear.

I recently got rid of a 1993 Mercedes 190E 2.6 with bilstein shocks/H&R springs/400E swaybars/calipers and rotors.  That was a fun little beater, should have hung on to it.



bimmer100 said:


> my wife and I drive matching bavarian chariots, at least for the most part. Both are 435i's, yet her's is a grancoupe and mine is a coupe. She has the hot red leather interior. It's used mostly to transport lots of packages to the post office
> 
> -----
> 
> ...


----------



## vc1187

Just received the L3 KTE version of this DAC yesterday.
Coming from the NAD M51, this DAC sounds fantastic!  I'm sure it will only improve with a few days of 'powered-on' time.

It's my first experience with DSD, but with the KTE Spring, I'm now a believer that DSD can sound better than PCM.  Considering how my ears have a hard time discerning differences from 320 kbps mp3s vs. CD quality recordings, I was shocked by how much I liked the sound of DSD.


----------



## Contrails

Anyone compared using a CD player with Spdif output to the Holo vs using Su-1 via USB and i2s? I have quite a few cds which I am thinking of just ripping to the computer and using the SU-1 or it would be worth it investing in a CD player with Spdif out to the Holo.


----------



## earnmyturns

Contrails said:


> Anyone compared using a CD player with Spdif output to the Holo vs using Su-1 via USB and i2s? I have quite a few cds which I am thinking of just ripping to the computer and using the SU-1 or it would be worth it investing in a CD player with Spdif out to the Holo.


Not quite what you asked, but I've compared 1) USB>SU-1>I2S>Spring with 2) USB>Eitr>S/PDIF coax>Spring. 1) sounds better.


----------



## ericr

MichaelXX2 said:


> It's been almost 7 months now and I'm still very happy with my Holo Spring lvl 1. I used it in the NOS mode for a long time, but I recently switched to the OS mode and I've found that equally as enjoyable. I thought my music sounded good with my old system, but when I replaced my AR3-a speakers with *Vandersteen 5as*, the DAC really showed off what it could do. I've never heard _Helplessness Blues_ sound better. Orchestra recordings are phenomenal. The DAC measures great and sounds even better! I was worried that the DAC would fall off and be written off as another flavor of the month DAC, but the Stereophile review seems to have ignited a surge in popularity for this company again. The Cyan was a great addition to the Holo line of products, for people who only care about PCM or DSD but not both.
> 
> Have you guys ever considered making a CD or SACD player with NOS and OS modes, and digital inputs? I would buy one in a heartbeat to simplify my hi-fi a bit.



Vandersteen 5A Speakers with the Spring DAC as the source!

*Please* tell me you live somewhere near Seattle and that I can come hear this!

-Eric


----------



## MichaelXX2

ericr said:


> Vandersteen 5A Speakers with the Spring DAC as the source!
> 
> *Please* tell me you live somewhere near Seattle and that I can come hear this!
> 
> -Eric



Nowhere near Seattle. Sorry bud.


----------



## smodtactical

How does Level 3 compare to yggy analog 2 ?


----------



## eee1111

smodtactical said:


> How does Level 3 compare to yggy analog 2 ?



its right there 

they both sound amazing


----------



## earnmyturns

smodtactical said:


> How does Level 3 compare to yggy analog 2 ?


I own both, like both (see setup details on my sig). Spring in NOS mode (what I use)  is a bit bolder, maybe slightly warmer in the low mids, slightly more rolled off on the highs. Instruments are broadly spaced, maybe sometimes too much. Yggy2 is a bit less romantic, but it slams hard where it needs. Instrument separation and staging feels a bit more natural. The above differences are more evident for Red Book (44.1/16) than at higher sample rates, which is to be expected because NOS has no digital filter, while at 44.1 the Schiit filter is interpolating 7 samples in between each of the original samples. Right now, listening to jazz pianist Stefano Bollani through the Spring and I notice a slightly more resonant, warmer tone from the piano than I'd hear live or through the Yggy2. I really like having this diversity with the Spring doing headphone duties, painting the music more boldly as if I were in a small jazz club, and the Yggy2 on my speaker system, getting closer to the feeling of a carefully tuned concert venue.


----------



## jjk43

Greetings to all,
I am interested in acquiring a Holo Level 3.  If you are thinking of selling, please contact me.
Thanks very much.
jjk


----------



## Maxx134 (Aug 30, 2018)

eee1111 said:


> its right there
> 
> they both sound amazing


I have side-by-side compared the yggy1 to the Holo Spring Lvl1 and I preferred the more emotional Holo Spring.

Although I felt the yggy was behaving more neutral or relaxed overall , and a bit further back in stage,
 the level of realism of both were totally on par with each other, which says alot.

The deciding factor for me to stay with the Holo Spring was the ability to hear a nuance of detail which was a bit less noticed on the yggy which I had to got back and find out why because is was more integrated into the background details.
So I found the Holo a bit more involving.



earnmyturns said:


> I own both, like both (see setup details on my sig). Spring in NOS mode (what I use)  is a bit bolder, maybe slightly warmer in the low mids, slightly more rolled off on the highs. Instruments are broadly spaced, maybe sometimes too much. Yggy2 is a bit less romantic, but it slams hard where it needs. Instrument separation and staging feels a bit more natural. The above differences are more evident for Red Book (44.1/16) than at higher sample rates, which is to be expected because NOS has no digital filter, while at 44.1 the Schiit filter is interpolating 7 samples in between each of the original samples. Right now, listening to jazz pianist Stefano Bollani through the Spring and I notice a slightly more resonant, warmer tone from the piano than I'd hear live or through the Yggy2. I really like having this diversity with the Spring doing headphone duties, painting the music more boldly as if I were in a small jazz club, and the Yggy2 on my speaker system, getting closer to the feeling of a carefully tuned concert venue.


You comments are very much similar to what I experience with Holo Spring Lvl1 vs yggy1.


----------



## kingkikapu

I had both spring level 3 fed i2s via SU-1 and Yggy A2 via USB. They are both excellent, excellent DAC’s and you cant go wrong with either. Fed into a gsx-mk2 and utopia I really don’t have a preference. 

My choice to keep one over the other came down to other considerations: price, looks, output voltages, and input methods that worked best for my setup.


----------



## Maxx134 (Aug 31, 2018)

kingkikapu said:


> Yggy A2 via USB


IMHO that is a handicap for the yggy unless its from a server.
The USB input  is not on level as any of its other inputs...

When I had upgraded to the latest USB (gen5), it achieved a very close level to its spdiff input I was using, but still not as good..
So to me, USB on yggy is a slight handicap.
The Holo Spring has a more modern USB implementation...


----------



## kingkikapu

I can’t say I agree with you at all on that one, but to each their own.


----------



## earnmyturns

Maxx134 said:


> IMHO that is a handicap for the yggy unless its from a server.
> The USB input  is not on level as any of its other inputs...
> 
> When I had upgraded to the latest USB (gen5), it achieved a very close level to its spdiff input I was using, but still not as good..
> ...


I've compared Spring KTE 3 USB (original, not upgraded) against S/PDIF and I2S. USB source was at the time a microRendu, used a Schiit Eitr to convert that to S/PDIF, and a SU-1 to convert USB to I2S. USB was quite a bit worse that S/PDIF, and I2S beats both. I've also compared Schiit Gen 5 against their earlier USB (on a Bimby, not Yggy2). Gen 5 was quite a bit better, and not distinguishable from S/PDIF. I also have the Yggy 2, but I've not bothered to compare because I've always had it on AES3. The only DAC I own where USB is not distinguishable from S/PDIF or AES3 is the Soekris dac1541.


----------



## kingkikapu

I tried the yggy A2 with AES via SU-1 and straight USB. My older yggy definitely benefitted from AES via su-1. Same story for Spring KTE with i2s via SU-1. 

New Yggy I’ve felt the difference between AES and USB were so damn small I said screw it and just did away with the reclocker all together. 

One fewer boxes to deal with. I can live with that.


----------



## Maxx134 (Aug 31, 2018)

kingkikapu said:


> I can’t say I agree with you at all on that one, but to each their own.


I edited my post as the difference was indeed small.



earnmyturns said:


> I've compared Spring KTE 3 USB (original, not upgraded) against S/PDIF and I2S. USB source was at the time a microRendu, used a Schiit Eitr to convert that to S/PDIF, and a SU-1 to convert USB to I2S. USB was quite a bit worse that S/PDIF, and I2S beats both. I've also compared Schiit Gen 5 against their earlier USB (on a Bimby, not Yggy2). Gen 5 was quite a bit better, and not distinguishable from S/PDIF. I also have the Yggy 2, but I've not bothered to compare because I've always had it on AES3. The only DAC I own where USB is not distinguishable from S/PDIF or AES3 is the Soekris dac1541.


I agree Holo Spring original USB is not up to par with newer USB, and I do not use the USB input because of this.
My other comments on spdiff over USB Gen5 are very slight but noticeable difference.



kingkikapu said:


> New Yggy I’ve felt the difference between AES and USB were so damn small I said screw it and just did away with the reclocker all together.
> 
> One fewer boxes to deal with. I can live with that.


You are absolutely correct the difference were very small with spdif still slightly better but very close. 
Since I had my spdif setup already I felt it was a waste to upgrade to Gen5 unless you already have it.


----------



## T Bone

I think my time with the Holo Spring DAC is just about complete.  I have really enjoyed my Holo but its upgrade time.  I've got a deposit down on the new Chord Hugo TT2 - the specs look amazing and Rob Watts is probably one of the best audio engineers in our time.  

Since acquiring my Holo Spring, I've really come to appreciate detail and nuance in my music.  It really helped me step up my listening game.  Once you know what things "should" sound like, it's hard to listen to anything less.  I think the Holo Spring and Focal Utopia's have turned me into a "detail freak".  

If you know anyone looking for a deal on Holo Spring, PM me!


----------



## Mrstump5

Does the Hd800S pair well with the holospring?


----------



## earnmyturns

Mrstump5 said:


> Does the Hd800S pair well with the holospring?


You need to specify the amp to get any useful feedback. I don't have those headphones, but in my experience, the DAC-amp pairing makes a big difference on how different headphones perform. I have a Holo Spring KTE 3. With a solid-state Neurochrome HP-1, MrSpeakers Æon Closed sound very balanced and dynamic. With a hybrid tube-solid state Schiit Lyr 3 with a high-end tube, Æon Closed sounds constricted and somewhat disjointed between lows and mids. OTOH, MrSpeakers Ether C Flow sound glorious with the Lyr 3. Same DAC, different amps, very different outcomes depending on headphones.


----------



## nick77 (Oct 20, 2018)

I have a modded Singxer SU-1 to allow connection to Spring i2s. Kitsune DC conversion. Big leap in performance going i2s.
Send me a pm if interested.


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## hyperdanny (Dec 7, 2018)

the new version Holo Spring 2 is now on sale both on Kitsune (for US) and Magna (for Europe).
The list of improvements is long but somewhat vaguely worded..better resistors (actual % not said), a "femtoclock" and more, what's very clear is that there's a marked (at least for Europe) increase in prices..basically the version 3 is 300 euros more!


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## Whitigir (Dec 7, 2018)

Ok, I am In for dsd1024 .... however, what in the heck can do Digital to Digital conversion that output DSD1024 via I2S ?

People only think DAC is important....the DDC is also just as important.

The compensation is something similar to AudioGD has been doing for a while, sadly...no DSD1024.  I heard the Kitsune HS once in comparison to r2r7.  Back then, the R2R7 had issues with it Firmware which is now much improved over a few versions of firmware.  I heard the negativities of Brass Pins in HS and then I went to research on it and was so sure there were everywhere.  Hope this is fixed ?  I worked on my r2r7 and it brought a huge improvements

I also would love to know the Clock system on the HS2, what is it


----------



## aleksander85

Does anyone have new Holo Audio - Spring II DAC Level 2 (R2R - DSD1024) ?
I,m considering this one or Audio GD R8..?
What do you guys think would be better option and why?
And one more question..what do you benefit when using Singxer SU-1 usb?I've seen this device in some youtube videos and i dont know what is it for..?Is that for streaming and for using i2s connection or  am i wrong?

thx for helping me.


----------



## Whitigir

aleksander85 said:


> Does anyone have new Holo Audio - Spring II DAC Level 2 (R2R - DSD1024) ?
> I,m considering this one or Audio GD R8..?
> What do you guys think would be better option and why?
> And one more question..what do you benefit when using Singxer SU-1 usb?I've seen this device in some youtube videos and i dont know what is it for..?Is that for streaming and for using i2s connection or  am i wrong?
> ...



SU-1 is a *digital to digital conversion*.

What does it convert ? Well, it take in USB signals, and convert it into I2S signals whatever the USB signals may contain (PCM, DSD...etc..)

What is the I2S signals ? I thought DAC only take USB in ? Well, I2S signals is a processed and separate timed clock signals, it is called _Inter-IC Sound_ (IIS).  Your IC chips AKA DAC-chip is communicate by this Signals.  Then what about the USB in on the DAC ? Exactly this, in digital world, you need digital interface (USB, Coax, AES, IIS...etc..). USB is just one of the input on the DAC, but whatever input it takes in, it would need to have an _according interfaces to interprete this incoming digital signal into _*IIS* signals.  So, in short, your USB input in the DAC is simply *USB-Digital to Digital Conversion*.  It will become *IIS* before it get to your DAC.

So why do we use DDC (digital to digital conversion) ?  Well, because more than often, the USB within your DAC is poorly implemented with only acceptable clock oscilliators and or power supply.  The SU-1 is a dedicated DDC.  It has separated ground isolation, linear power supply with ultra low noises, and other features to improve the sound quality for your digital files


----------



## aleksander85

Whitigir said:


> SU-1 is a *digital to digital conversion*.
> 
> What does it convert ? Well, it take in USB signals, and convert it into I2S signals whatever the USB signals may contain (PCM, DSD...etc..)
> 
> ...



Thx for that..i think i understand much better now.
So in this case with SU-1 and I2S conection we should always get some inpruvement in sound..
And Singxer SU-6 is same thing but ''new and inpruved one''?

But is this meaningful only when used for streaming (roon,Tidal...) or even when used when playing (Flac ,..) from  SSDdisc?


ty


----------



## Whitigir

aleksander85 said:


> Thx for that..i think i understand much better now.
> So in this case with SU-1 and I2S conection we should always get some inpruvement in sound..
> And Singxer SU-6 is same thing but ''new and inpruved one''?
> 
> ...




Yes, you will get improvement due to better clock precision’s and better power supply from your DDC

Yes, SU-6 is a further improved DDC based on SU-1 but is using the same DSP Chip (digital Signal Processing) which is XMOS XU208

It is meaningful whenever you are sending Digital signals into your DAC.  Therefore, Roon, Tidal, YouTube, DSD, PCM of all kinds Wav/Flac...etc....Yes, even files stored on SSD


----------



## aleksander85

Whitigir said:


> Yes, you will get improvement due to better clock precision’s and better power supply from your DDC
> 
> Yes, SU-6 is a further improved DDC based on SU-1 but is using the same DSP Chip (digital Signal Processing) which is XMOS XU208
> 
> It is meaningful whenever you are sending Digital signals into your DAC.  Therefore, Roon, Tidal, YouTube, DSD, PCM of all kinds Wav/Flac...etc....Yes, even files stored on SSD



Thanks my friend.
Did you heared new holo spring II?And is there big diference (soundwise)betwen 2 and Kitsune version?


----------



## Whitigir

aleksander85 said:


> Thanks my friend.
> Did you heared new holo spring II?And is there big diference (soundwise)betwen 2 and Kitsune version?



I wish I could afford them all to answer you , but I don’t 

I am curious about the II as well.


----------



## aleksander85

Whitigir said:


> I wish I could afford them all to answer you , but I don’t
> 
> I am curious about the II as well.



Yea i understand..I also have tu safe money 1/2 year to buy somethink like that.Puting together my HI-FI sistem for 6-7 years and now hunting for new DAC(had M2tech Young before).
I,m mostly listening to records and that is the sound that i want from my DAC(or as close to that).


----------



## Whitigir

I need more info about the II, but so far, I can’t find detailed pictures or specs out there.  Pretty sad though


----------



## aleksander85

Magna hifi should have some specs ..


----------



## topgunsphd

Anyone have any experience with the spring 2?  Is the USB better now to where DDC, like singxer su1, is no longer needed for better sound?


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## aisnikkor (Dec 21, 2018)

Took a chance and ordered the KTE Spring 2 this past week.  Still 3+ weeks out on delivery.

I was set on getting a level 1 original Spring, and the KTE SU1, but when I finally was ready to order, the Spring 2 was up on the Kitsune page.  Given you need at least level 2 of the Spring 2 to get the remote (which will be useful to me), I was now looking at the upper level models rather than level 1.  With the current sale going on, decided to go all in for the KTE Spring 2 together with the KTE SU1.

Improvements that pique my interest with the Spring 2 are the remote, that additional detail is now being shown on the display, and that the I2S input is supposedly improved over the original.  Also of interest is that the KTE model now officially has hand selected DAC modules.

My worries are that the DAC module is a refined design over the original Spring - will it still perform to the same high level?  Power supply has been changed a bit as well.  Feedback from Tim at Kitsune and some trust that the designer would not go backwards in performance goals gave me enough confidence to go forward with the purchase.

I’ve scoured the internet every couple of days for the past two weeks, and to date no review info is posted anywhere yet on the Spring 2 that I can find.  Used google translate quite a bit these past few weeks...

Anxiously awaiting both feedback from users, and delivery of my new DAC.  So hard to be patient .


----------



## alphanumerix1

eagerly await impressions on spring 2


----------



## BlueDL

aisnikkor said:


> Took a chance and ordered the KTE Spring 2 this past week.  Still 3+ weeks out on delivery.
> 
> I was set on getting a level 1 original Spring, and the KTE SU1, but when I finally was ready to order, the Spring 2 was up on the Kitsune page.  Given you need at least level 2 of the Spring 2 to get the remote (which will be useful to me), I was now looking at the upper level models rather than level 1.  With the current sale going on, decided to go all in for the KTE Spring 2 together with the KTE SU1.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the plunge first.......I’ll look forward to your review / opinion of the new breed of Spring DAC.

Looks like it was a good weekend for the reds too!


----------



## aisnikkor

BlueDL said:


> Thanks for taking the plunge first.......I’ll look forward to your review / opinion of the new breed of Spring DAC.
> 
> Looks like it was a good weekend for the reds too!



Having my team do well helps to pass the time 

Doing some major changes in my system at the moment, but kind of bummed as I will not be able to do any direct side by side comparisons of the major components at the same time, for budget reasons.  Best I can do is listen to recordings which I am very familiar with.  My most recent system chain was Oppo Sonica DAC >> Darkvoice 336SE (mods) >> Focal Elex & Senn HD-700.  In order to do the ugrades, the Senns are sold, as is the Oppo DAC.  Going to miss the Oppo's versatility, and it sounded pretty good too.

On the amp side, Schiit Ragnarok is now in the house, but I've only been able to listen so far through my AQ Dragonfly Red, as the Oppo was gone before the Rag arrived.  Listening to the Elex on the balanced out of the Ragnarok.  Excited as I am finding differences brought by just the amp, that are evident even on the little DFR dac.  Bass slam, definition, imaging and instrument textures are noticeable improvements on the Ragnarok that I definitely have not heard before, even with the better Sonica DAC on the DV amp.  This only heightens my anticpation of getting the Holo Spring 2 into the system.

Two of my favorite types of music to listen to are solo piano, and choral music.  Both present difficulties for reproduction, and are what drives me in my component selections.  The last part of my current desired system upgrade are Senn HD-800's, which I have been wanting for some time now.  Hoping after these upgrades I will be at a point to just sit back and enjoy the music for a long while.


----------



## BlueDL

aisnikkor said:


> Having my team do well helps to pass the time
> 
> Doing some major changes in my system at the moment, but kind of bummed as I will not be able to do any direct side by side comparisons of the major components at the same time, for budget reasons.  Best I can do is listen to recordings which I am very familiar with.  My most recent system chain was Oppo Sonica DAC >> Darkvoice 336SE (mods) >> Focal Elex & Senn HD-700.  In order to do the ugrades, the Senns are sold, as is the Oppo DAC.  Going to miss the Oppo's versatility, and it sounded pretty good too.
> 
> ...


Provided you like forensic detail more than a warm, rich sound, you’ll love the HD800. I have a pair and they are amazing. I tried the resonator (SDR) mod to try to curb the treble glare and actually preferred the stock HD800 sound signature. I’m awaiting the arrival of a used HDVA600 amplifier to use them with, as my Naim Supernait 2’s headphone amp doesn’t have the necessary power to drive high impedance headphones properly. Also, the HDVA600 will permit me to try a balanced cable.


----------



## aleksander85

aisnikkor said:


> Took a chance and ordered the KTE Spring 2 this past week.  Still 3+ weeks out on delivery.
> 
> I was set on getting a level 1 original Spring, and the KTE SU1, but when I finally was ready to order, the Spring 2 was up on the Kitsune page.  Given you need at least level 2 of the Spring 2 to get the remote (which will be useful to me), I was now looking at the upper level models rather than level 1.  With the current sale going on, decided to go all in for the KTE Spring 2 together with the KTE SU1.
> 
> ...


I,m impatiently waiting for your opinion about Spring2..


----------



## aisnikkor

aleksander85 said:


> I,m impatiently waiting for your opinion about Spring2..



Still waiting on the DAC to arrive, no ETA yet, potentially a couple more weeks.  I have not heard the original Spring, so I will not be able to comment on differences there.  I’ve spent a lot of time with Oppo DACs, most recently the Sonica, so that is my frame of reference.  This should be a big step up in sound quality.

Looks like a couple of guys on the CA forum have the Spring 2 in hand, but have not posted any review yet, and I’ve not been able to find a posted opinion on it yet anywhere else either.


----------



## aleksander85

aisnikkor said:


> Still waiting on the DAC to arrive, no ETA yet, potentially a couple more weeks.  I have not heard the original Spring, so I will not be able to comment on differences there.  I’ve spent a lot of time with Oppo DACs, most recently the Sonica, so that is my frame of reference.  This should be a big step up in sound quality.
> 
> Looks like a couple of guys on the CA forum have the Spring 2 in hand, but have not posted any review yet, and I’ve not been able to find a posted opinion on it yet anywhere else either.


I also haven't heared the ''Spring 1'' but i,m reading only great reviews about it and i,m considering buying new version if opinions would be similar or better.
Are you gonna used it od speaker system or headphones?


----------



## aisnikkor

aleksander85 said:


> I also haven't heared the ''Spring 1'' but i,m reading only great reviews about it and i,m considering buying new version if opinions would be similar or better.
> Are you gonna used it od speaker system or headphones?



I was 100% set on getting the original Spring based on reviews.  Hoping this will be as good or better than the original, kind of excited for the potential improvements.  Already picked up a KTE SU-1 to interface it with, as I don’t have the cleanest computer USB connection to work with.

Plan to use it on both headphones and speakers, but more for headphones due to the nature of my household.  Have Focal Elex now, Senn HD800’s coming soon (the original model).  Will be running it with a Schiit Ragnarok amp either way, including  speakers, which are 1980’s vintage KEF 105/4’s and 103/2’s.


----------



## aleksander85

aisnikkor said:


> I was 100% set on getting the original Spring based on reviews.  Hoping this will be as good or better than the original, kind of excited for the potential improvements.  Already picked up a KTE SU-1 to interface it with, as I don’t have the cleanest computer USB connection to work with.
> 
> Plan to use it on both headphones and speakers, but more for headphones due to the nature of my household.  Have Focal Elex now, Senn HD800’s coming soon (the original model).  Will be running it with a Schiit Ragnarok amp either way, including  speakers, which are 1980’s vintage KEF 105/4’s and 103/2’s.


I have Elear but no amp for now..sold A-GDmaster 11 and Unison Research SH..also sold M2Tech young DAC
So now i'm only using turntable for almost 6 months.Not that i'm missing dac to much but some music can't be find on LPs.Heared those R2R dacs should be as close as ''possible'' to hi-end turntable sound.Hope there is some truth in that claim i,m hearing from so many audiophiles. 
Have not heared many DACs that can play in same league with hi-end turntable(for my taste).


----------



## aisnikkor

I have been digital all along, 30 years at this point.  Started to experiment with vinyl, with mid level stuff, but I think Holo Spring will probably end my vinyl experiments for good.


----------



## Maxx134

I "side graded" from yggy original version to the Holo Spring first version with zero regret.

I have read that yggy2 eclipsed the HoloSpring, 
so if the Holo Spring2 has audible improvements, then it would be great news indeed.


----------



## BlueDL

Maxx134 said:


> I "side graded" from yggy original version to the Holo Spring first version with zero regret.
> 
> I have read that yggy2 eclipsed the HoloSpring,
> so if the Holo Spring2 has audible improvements, then it would be great news indeed.


I have never heard the Yggy, but as I like to feed a DAC with DSD512 via upsampling, I couldn’t use one if I tried! So the Yggy2 would only better the Holo Spring with PCM I guess.


----------



## aleksander85

Nobody got it yet?


----------



## aisnikkor

aleksander85 said:


> Nobody got it yet?



Mine is supposed to ship this week, hopefully I’ll  have it by the weekend.


----------



## Baten (Jan 19, 2019)

aleksander85 said:


> Nobody got it yet?


Mine just arrived from Hong Kong. I got the Wildism version, the HK version of the KTE, same price but different tweaks (10000uf audionote capacitors among other things ).












Really good latency is possible too even when using demanding VSTs. 5ms back-to-back and that's not even pushing it, just being conservative. Impressive.

Bravo, holo audio. DSD1024 and 1.5M PCM work with the driver plug-and-play as long as you have a suitable player (HQplayer or even foobar with SoX set to 1536000 works too).

I literally unboxed it minutes ago but so far the sound is very good, wonderful NOS sound. What I bought it for. But I'm very impressed with the nuances and its delta-sigma levels of low distortion! Some retailers have measurements proving that  Great match with the 'lowly' THX. Room for upgrade, yes I'm sure, but the THX forward feedback is a treat together with this Spring.

The iFi black label micro was my favorite for NOS/bitperfect for a long time but now.. the spring is the king of NOS by far.


----------



## aisnikkor (Jan 21, 2019)

Got the Spring 2 delivered on Friday, very happy with things so far.  Been running it continuously since Friday at about 3 PM, so a little over 50 hours of use at this point.  KTE SU-1 in the chain is also brand new.  I don’t have a full-size DAC to compare to, I have been stuck with my AQ Dragonfly Red for the past month or so.  Shouldn’t say ‘stuck with’ as that portable DAC has proved to be quite musical and enjoyable to listen to in the interim.  It normally sees use in my car, and on my desktop at work paired with PSB Alpha speakers/sub.  But I digress.

My chain, running fully balanced at this point is:

Windows 10 PC/Jriver>>Belkin Gold USB (3m)>>KTE Singxer SU-1>>Apollo 0.5m HDMI>>Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE>>Balanced XLR>>Ragnarok>>Cardas Clear Light XLR/Balanced>>HD800 (SDR mod)

The Windows PC has an ELFidelity USB card with its own dedicated iFi external wall-wart 5V power supply.  This was a cheap science experiment, the card was on sale at Kitsune for about $35, and allows for the external power supply to be used.  All listening so far, except where noted, has been through the KTE SU-1.

I have to preface my listening impressions with stating that I have never heard the original Spring, my previous decent quality DAC was an Oppo Sonica, which was sold to help pay for this upgrade.  Prior to that I was using an Oppo BDP-83SE, which was a big step up to everything I had been using previous to that player.  Going on memory, the Spring 2 has really opened up the Soundstage in complex orchestral and choral passages - big crescendos and the like seem to be more controlled, with less glare in the treble.   This was a specific fault I had with the two older Oppo DAC’s.

Comparing with the Dragonfly, which is not really fair based on price as well as application, the Spring 2 has a much bigger soundstage, and is more open/airy sounding.  Instruments sound more 3 dimensional – not so much the spacing of things, as the three dimensionality of the sound-field itself around the instruments.  There is just something ‘more’ there with the Spring 2 that has not been present with any of the other DAC’s I have listened to.  There is also a nice smoothness/liquidity/"analog-ness" that has not been present with the other DAC’s either.

With respect to DSD, I am noticing an improvement over previous DAC’s I had listened to with SACD’s or DSD files.  With previous equipment, DSD usually sounded nicer for the most part, but specifically with orchestral string music, there was a funky resonance to the sound that just did not sound right.  Not really sure how to pin down or describe what I was hearing before, but it is gone with the Spring 2 playing DSD files – there is a smoothness and naturalness to DSD files that is awesome with this DAC.  I am really excited about this part of this new DAC’s performance.

One last note is that with burn-in I am pretty sure I am seeing some changes for the better.  During the first few hours of use on Friday, the coax-in, fed from my Oppo BDP-103, was slightly smoother than the KTE SU-1 path.  But at the 50-hour point, the I2S input is clearly better now.  Not sure how good my disc player is as a source for coax-in, but the I2S definitely appears to be opening up on soundstage and ‘ease’ of presentation, as burn-in progresses, and is the clearly preferable input.

Overall, I am very happy with this DAC, I think I will be living with it for some time.  I would be very interested to see a detailed listening comparison with the original Spring when someone is able to make one.  I will also post some further impressions after I get at least another week or two of burn-in.

Lastly, regarding the post above with the pics, I see even further upgrades to the Spring 2 - It will be interesting to see if they make an appreciable difference.  Looks like it has many of the original Spring 1 upgrades that are not present in the Spring 2 KTE.  I was wondering why these were not present in the new KTE Spring 2.  I have not opened mine up yet to look inside.  Kinda leaves room for a 'Level 4' build, but not sure how much improvement any of this would bring.


----------



## aisnikkor (Jan 23, 2019)

~100 Hours in on Spring 2 burn in.  Listening to Pink Floyd 'The Wall' (MFSL Gold CD).  This is the first time I have really listened to this album in a while, but what I am hearing is really one of those ‘night and day’ differences.  Wow.  Imaging on some parts of this album is just holographic now – I do not remember this being the case at all before.  Some credit must go to the HD800, and possibly to Ragnarok here, as these were not in my system last time I really dug in to this album.  Clarity, detail and imaging are just so much cleaner than I remember them from before.  This is very evident on the track “One of My Turns” where the woman walks into his apartment and is walking around talking.  You can hear her moving precisely around the room now, not just talking in the background.  The room has size and dimension now, that was not there before at all, very cool .

The other part I am enjoying is the bass detail, control, fullness and slam.  HD800's are definitely not sounding thin on this album.  All parts of the system are playing a part here, but the bottom end extension and detail on this setup has been very satisfying.

This album, specifically the MFSL version, has always been a favorite, but things are on a new level now.


----------



## Whitigir

Baten said:


> Mine just arrived from Hong Kong. I got the Wildism version, the HK version of the KTE, same price but different tweaks (10000uf audionote capacitors among other things ).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you very much for such Hardware Porn  I love it !

I heard the Brass pins connectors are replaced with Solid silver now ? Could you confirm it ?

Could you tell me what connection you are using to feed DSD1024 into the Spring ? I am very interested

I am a bit confused about the Delta-sigma on the last statement ? Could you clarify what you really meant by ?


----------



## Baten (Jan 24, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> Thank you very much for such Hardware Porn  I love it !
> 
> I heard the Brass pins connectors are replaced with Solid silver now ? Could you confirm it ?
> 
> ...



No problem. It's very pretty in person, too  What do you mean with brass pins to solid silver, what should I look for exactly?

Only USB can receive PCM 1.5M(1536000Khz) / DSD1024 for now I think, because there is no DDC(digital to digital converter) on the market that goes above 768Khz/DSD512 (for now). Correct me if I'm wrong but only holo audio and latest X-Sabre DACs have it right now it seems, and only direct via USB. So that's how I'm using it, just USB.

The USB is also much improved from Spring 1 spec-wise, lower latency and higher throughput. I don't think you need another digital converter with USB being this ridiculously good, while before it was recommended to go I2S/HDMI. Now I don't think you need that really, USB sounds insanely clean. And if you do get S/PDIF or I2S in, the power is filtered from every digital input in Spring 2 in the case you need those  but I don't think one needs to spend additional money at all. The custom USB drivers by Holo audio are very impressive and better than any other XMOS/thesyscon driver I've had installed before...

Delta-sigma is known to have better measurements than multibit/ladder DAC. Spring measurements however, show "delta-sigma like" performance while being ladder DAC. Good linearity and superb SNR. There's some recent measurements in the computeraudiophile Holo Spring DAC thread if you're interested in that.

But above everything it just sounds damn clean with amazingly 'black' background!


----------



## Whitigir

Baten said:


> No problem. It's very pretty in person, too  What do you mean with brass pins to solid silver, what should I look for exactly?
> 
> Only USB can receive PCM 1.5M(1536000Khz) / DSD1024 for now I think, because there is no DDC(digital to digital converter) on the market that goes above 768Khz/DSD512 (for now). Correct me if I'm wrong but only holo audio and latest X-Sabre DACs have it right now it seems, and only direct via USB. So that's how I'm using it, just USB.
> 
> ...



The Brass-Pins connectors are the Interconnect between R2R Digital-daughter boards to the main board as shown in pictures.  If you could take a peek and see.  I would guess that if the pins are similar to the wires on the AudioNote caps, then it is Silver.

Good to know that the USB is now able to accept DSD1024 ! Excellent news.  Are they using Xmos Xu-216 ? Can you give me a close up on the Module ?

I see what you meant now about Delta-Sigma vs R2R.  Measurements is one thing, listening and trusting our ears is another, don’t you agree ? To my ears, R2R done right and NOS is superior to Delta-Sigma and Over Sampling.  However, a done right OverSampling is also very enjoyable , for example, a good PC that is capable of HQPlayer DSD512/1024 .  They have different sound signatures though


----------



## Baten (Jan 24, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> The Brass-Pins connectors are the Interconnect between R2R Digital-daughter boards to the main board as shown in pictures.  If you could take a peek and see.  I would guess that if the pins are similar to the wires on the AudioNote caps, then it is Silver.
> 
> Good to know that the USB is now able to accept DSD1024 ! Excellent news.  Are they using Xmos Xu-216 ? Can you give me a close up on the Module ?
> 
> I see what you meant now about Delta-Sigma vs R2R.  Measurements is one thing, listening and trusting our ears is another, don’t you agree ? To my ears, R2R done right and NOS is superior to Delta-Sigma and Over Sampling.  However, a done right OverSampling is also very enjoyable , for example, a good PC that is capable of HQPlayer DSD512/1024 .  They have different sound signatures though



-I'm away from home due to work for at least some days so I can't take a physical picture right now. I'll upload some pictures property of Wildism audio which might give you a clue:
https://imgur.com/a/8JSXrKE

-The board is still XU-208. I'm actually fairly sure that besides power filtering upgrades on digital inputs, the board is the same with all of the improvements done software-firmware side, not hardware-side. XU-216 was not necessary, and looking at performance I would say they were right. I'm sure there is a reason they feel they did not need 216, maybe there were drawbacks involved. As a matter of fact, I'll ask the question on computeraudiophile to kitsune hifi direct 

-I for one am a big fan of NOS. You won't really find world-class NOS devices in the delta-sigma realm, it's just not the same. I mean the RME ADI-2 has a filterless mode as do the iFi Bitperfect DACs, but I feel they are not true NOS but software NOS, holding samples without interpolating. There's a difference in sound and boy the Holo Spring is true filterless NOS. If you're going to be oversampling to super high PCM or DSD though, I think similar performance can be reached especially looking at upcoming AK4499 chip and whatever Sabre will make to oppose it, but in general it's easier to go off-the-shelf and optimise it than go FPGA-corrected ladder DAC like the Spring, combine it with their ridiculous USB firmware/drivers and you reach a tier of performance that the competition off-the-shelf chip implementations just can't reach at this point of time.

From computeraudiophile: Spring 2 can reach 0.00002% IMD, THD+N: 0.00080%. That is nothing short of insane performance. I'm not going to say 'R2R is so much better than Delta-Sigma' because if is the implementation and the passionate engineering that makes the Spring so crazy good. Not just the R2R tech. I mean, the massdrop Airist R2R can't even reach 12-bit linearity, and Schiit multibit designs only recently added dithering to their firmware to make the performance better. R2R does not necessarily mean good engineering nor good sound


----------



## Whitigir

Baten said:


> -I'm away from home due to work for at least some days so I can't take a physical picture right now. I'll upload some pictures property of Wildism audio which might give you a clue:
> https://imgur.com/a/8JSXrKE
> 
> -The board is still XU-208. I'm actually fairly sure that besides power filtering upgrades on digital inputs, the board is the same with all of the improvements done software-firmware side, not hardware-side. XU-216 was not necessary, and looking at performance I would say they were right. I'm sure there is a reason they feel they did not need 216, maybe there were drawbacks involved. As a matter of fact, I'll ask the question on computeraudiophile to kitsune hifi direct
> ...




Xmos XU-208 is capable of DSD1024 ? Very interesting.  I saw it limitations with DSD512 on some filters from HQPlayer.

I am also a big fan of NOS, and I totally agree with you about using Delta-Sigma but ....well...handi-cap it to be running NOS with firmware and even FPGA coding.

Anyways, there are 2 DAC that do NOS very very well, and that is AudioGD R2R7 and no doubt about the HoloSpring.  I heard the MkI 

On another hand, I also like Delta Sigma with DSD when done right ....and that is my LkS004 with ES9038Pro X2


----------



## Baten (Jan 24, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> Xmos XU-208 is capable of DSD1024 ? Very interesting.  I saw it limitations with DSD512 on some filters from HQPlayer.



Yes I don't understand how they did it. Pure magic and/or perseverance & passion from their side I'm sure !



Whitigir said:


> On another hand, I also like Delta Sigma with DSD when done right



I won't disagree with that. If I'm paying this much for a DAC or any device though, I think something custom-made like the Spring is more worth the cost than something pre-built and optimised  just my thoughts! DAC chips might reach this performance one day too, though, in which case the equal level field might bring down the price of performance for all of us.

But like I said, you won't find any other NOS device pulling these performance numbers.


----------



## neogeosnk

I have an Yggy A2 but want to compliment it with another dac.  Would a Holo Audio Spring 2 be a good fit or do they sound similar?  I use 2 dacs for different headphones and sold off my hugo 2 cause it was just ok.


----------



## aisnikkor (Jan 30, 2019)

Now at a little over 270 hours burn-in time on the KTE Spring 2, things still seem to be improving.  I will do some more serious comparitive listening this weekend against my other sources to see if I can pin down the changes a little better.

Listened to Lauridsen's Lux Aeterna, Los Angeles Master Chorale, redbook @ 44.1K, and was hearing some separation of voices on the smaller ensemble pieces on this album that was a very nice improvement over previous sessions listening to this material on my earlier equipment.  "Dirait-On" and some of the other smaller pieces on this album (maybe 20 or 30 singers, instead of full choir) sounded fantastic on the Spring 2.  You can almost pick out and follow the individual singers now, and you definitely notice that it is many individual singers, not just a mass of voices blended together as one sound.

Also listened to Jesus Lopez Cobos, Cincinnati  Symphony, 'Bolero' (Telarc redbook @ 44.1K).  I am noticing very clean, extremely dynamic sound on this CD.  The opening of 'Bolero' has a very quiet snare drum that is remarkably distinct, you can even sense the quiet but sharp impacts/percussion hits of the drum.  Hard to explain, but this was not something I had heard before.  Start to finish in the Bolero piece it was fun to follow different instrumental lines, VERY easy to pick them out of the mix.  I have new appreciation for this particular recording now, good stuff.

One thing I am noticing with this DAC is that some of my 'reference' recordings are not so reference anymore.  I was straining trying to hear new details that were just not there.  Yet other recordings, like the 'Bolero' noted above are very, very good and are showning me things I had never noticed before.  A number of DG classical recordings I have sounded different, and better, with this setup - I had not noticed the recording quality on these particular albums in the past, but it really stands out now.

Another thing I am noticing is that I am turning down the volume, more than turning it up, with this DAC.  The low level detail is distict and clear, so no need to have the volume at excessive levels to hear details, or on the other end of the scale, to enjoy the impact of large scale dynamic stuff.

I plan on continuing the burn in process to at least the 500 hour point.  Will post more later.


----------



## aisnikkor

neogeosnk said:


> I have an Yggy A2 but want to compliment it with another dac.  Would a Holo Audio Spring 2 be a good fit or do they sound similar?  I use 2 dacs for different headphones and sold off my hugo 2 cause it was just ok.



There is a really good comparison of the original Spring and the original Yggy by 'Torq' that may answer some of your questions.  I don't remember if it was on Head-Fi or one of the other forums, but it was a very detailed review and comparison of these two DACs.  At the time of that comparison, he ended up keeping and using both of those DACs as complimentary to each other.  Suggest tracking down that review.


----------



## joseph69

aisnikkor said:


> At the time of that comparison, he ended up keeping and using both of those DACs as complimentary to each other.


In the end he preferred the Yggdrasil and parts with the Spring.


----------



## aisnikkor

joseph69 said:


> In the end he preferred the Yggdrasil and parts with the Spring.



Understood that, but for a time he was using both.  Point was that he found them complimentary to each other (at that time), and I thought that was useful info to the original question.  Granted, this was original Spring and original Yggdrasil, so this may not apply to current products.  Not much in the way of comparison info available on the Holo Spring 2 yet.


----------



## bflat

I think it's safe to assume the Spring 2 is better than Spring 1. By how much is purely subjective (unless you must have the new features of the Spring 2). What Spring business folks should think about is this - if Spring 1 owners are contemplating selling to fund an upgrade to Spring 2, that also opens the possibility that Spring 1 owners will consider other DACs like Yggy. I would advise Spring business folks to come up with a compelling upgrade offer that keeps Spring owners as long term owners. Schiit already figured this out. As the very well known business saying goes - getting new customers (or getting back lost customers) is far more expensive than keeping your existing customers.


----------



## joseph69

bflat said:


> I think it's safe to assume the Spring 2 is better than Spring 1. By how much is purely subjective (unless you must have the new features of the Spring 2).


Below is a quote from Tim Connor of Kitsune Hi-Fi.

"The overall spring1 vs spring2 comparisons are marginal and was not released to be considered an upgrade of the spring1 but rather a continuance or an already great dac with a few improvements. Personally I would not strongly recommend anyone to “upgrade” from spring1 to spring2 since it’s a somewhat small difference imho."


----------



## vc1187

Tim's honesty is quite admirable.  It shows that he values customer satisfaction and product reputation over the common marketing tactic that many other companies utilize.


----------



## aisnikkor (Feb 10, 2019)

I have continued to burn-in the KTE Spring 2, up to just under 500 hours at this point.  KTE Singxer SU-1 has also been part of this same burn-in process, and its burn-in also may account for some of the changes I am hearing.  Things are definitely getting interesting now.

Somewhere past the 400 hour mark in use, sound quality has taken a positive step forward.  Imaging and spatial ques are now clearer than before, treble seems to have smoothed out even more (this was already a strong point from the start) and clarity of sound in congested passages has improved as well.  The three dimensionality of instruments and the sound space around them that I was initially enjoying with this DAC have also improved.  I have only had a couple of serious, long listening sessions so far, primarily on the weekends, so the changes in sound quality have been noticeable and somewhat distinct.  I have also refrained from listening to certain test tracks in between these sessions, to try and help with hearing changes from burn-in.  On the intermediate weeknights, I’ve just been exploring other music (generally with a smile on my face at this point).  When not listening, the system has just been playing a variety of music on a continuous basis.

One of the goals I had with upgrading my system was to better resolve some of the large choral pieces in my music collection.  One of my favorite CDs is the Verdi Requiem by Robert Shaw and the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra and Chorus (Telarc).  One of the shortcomings of my prior gear was the inability of the system to resolve this material cleanly or realistically during large crescendos in the music.  Soprano material in particular was a trouble spot – instead of hearing distinct voices during crescendos, I was hearing a peaky, congested, treble mess in these parts of the music.  The sound tended to smear together, with a glare to the sound that was nowhere near realistic sounding.  It was like the audio chain was just being overloaded by this type of material, particularly in the treble.

While things got a little better when I initially got the Spring 2, these passages were still not fully resolved, and some of the glare and peakiness in the treble was still there in these louder passages.  These faults continued to be presnt in the early stages of the burn-in process on the Spring 2, though it was sounding better than anything I had listened to before.  It was a bit disappointing, and I was beginning to wonder of some of the issues were with the recording itself.  But I am happy to say that this is one of the areas that I have definitely noticed improvements with the Spring 2 and extended burn-in time.  The treble parts of these passages are getting much smoother and more resolved.  While not perfect, it is sounding like voices now, instead of conglomerated glare in the treble.  It has really been a noticeable improvement.  It is not just the smoothing of the treble that has occurred, it is also the increased separation and improvements in imaging that I think have contributed here.

Another area I have started exploring is upsampling with HQPlayer software.  This appears to have some real possibilities, and is sounding very, very good.  I have tried a couple of different scenarios, taking 44.1K material to 352.8K, and also converting it to DSD512.  It appears to be a trade off at times, but generally I am much preferring the upsampled sound to the original – smoother, more organic, bigger sound stage, and more distinct separation of instruments are things I noticed.  This will be a long journey at this point, exploring filters and upsampling settings, but I am liking very much where this is going.

In summary, I was not sure if I was 100% happy with this DAC on initial listening tests, but burn-in has completely changed my opinion.  Very happy now with where things are going, and the possibilities with upsampling are making things interesting indeed.  I think I will be quite happy with the Spring 2 for a while.


----------



## BlueDL

aisnikkor said:


> I have continued to burn-in the KTE Spring 2, up to just under 500 hours at this point.  KTE Singxer SU-1 has also been part of this same burn-in process, and its burn-in also may account for some of the changes I am hearing.  Things are definitely getting interesting now.
> 
> Somewhere past the 400 hour mark in use, sound quality has taken a positive step forward.  Imaging and spatial ques are now clearer than before, treble seems to have smoothed out even more (this was already a strong point from the start) and clarity of sound in congested passages has improved as well.  Instruments have a 3 dimensional feel to them that was not there before.  I have only had a couple of serious, long listening sessions so far, primarily on the weekends, so the changes in sound quality have been noticeable and somewhat distinct.  I have also refrained from listening to certain test tracks in between these sessions, to try and help with hearing changes from burn-in.  On the intermediate weeknights, I’ve just been exploring other music (generally with a smile on my face at this point).  When not listening, the system has just been playing a variety of music on a continuous basis.
> 
> ...


I agree that upsampling has a positive effect. My Spring 1 Level 1 seems to like DSD512 in NOS mode!
Mind you, I have to be careful what filter I select in HQP embedded as I soon find the limitations of my quad core i7 music server!


----------



## AnakChan

joseph69 said:


> Below is a quote from Tim Connor of Kitsune Hi-Fi.
> 
> "The overall spring1 vs spring2 comparisons are marginal and was not released to be considered an upgrade of the spring1 but rather a continuance or an already great dac with a few improvements. Personally I would not strongly recommend anyone to “upgrade” from spring1 to spring2 since it’s a somewhat small difference imho."


This is good to hear. I’ve had a variant of the Kitsune Holo Spring Lvl 3 & SU-1 and been particularly curious on the Holo Spring V2.0.


----------



## joseph69

AnakChan said:


> This is good to hear. I’ve had a variant of the Kitsune Holo Spring Lvl 3 & SU-1 and been particularly curious on the Holo Spring V2.0.


Are you going to be placing an order/demoing a Spring 2?
If so, being you have experience with the KTE Spring I'd like to hear your thoughts.
I'm very content with my KTE Spring & KTE SU-1, and after reading Tim's comment, I don't believe I'll be making any moves on the Spring 2 if the differences are subtle.


----------



## AnakChan

joseph69 said:


> Are you going to be placing an order/demoing a Spring 2?
> If so, being you have experience with the KTE Spring I'd like to hear your thoughts.
> I'm very content with my KTE Spring & KTE SU-1, and after reading Tim's comment, I don't believe I'll be making any moves on the Spring 2 if the differences are subtle.


Sadly no plans to. If there’s a demo unit tour, I’d be glad to do a comparison but don’t think there’s one.


----------



## T Bone (Mar 2, 2019)

Hey Holo Owners, does anyone have first-hand experience with the Magna Mana streamer?  (link)
It's one of the few streamers out there with an I2S output.  The pin-out of the Magna is supposed to conform to the "PS Audio" standard which would make it compatible with the Holo Spring.


----------



## attmci

aisnikkor said:


> There is a really good comparison of the original Spring and the original Yggy by 'Torq' that may answer some of your questions.  I don't remember if it was on Head-Fi or one of the other forums, but it was a very detailed review and comparison of these two DACs.  At the time of that comparison, he ended up keeping and using both of those DACs as complimentary to each other.  Suggest tracking down that review.


Torq is running his own for-profit website now.


----------



## attmci

bflat said:


> I think it's safe to assume the Spring 2 is better than Spring 1. By how much is purely subjective (unless you must have the new features of the Spring 2). What Spring business folks should think about is this - if Spring 1 owners are contemplating selling to fund an upgrade to Spring 2, that also opens the possibility that Spring 1 owners will consider other DACs like Yggy. I would advise Spring business folks to come up with a compelling upgrade offer that keeps Spring owners as long term owners. Schiit already figured this out. As the very well known business saying goes - *getting new customers (or getting back lost customers) is far more expensive than keeping your existing customers*.



Yup, ask the existing customers sending their Dacs back to them every (couple of) year(s) for upgrading, and made more $$$. Great!


----------



## bearwarrior

attmci said:


> Torq is running his own for-profit website now.



Any address of the website?


----------



## Aurion

bearwarrior said:


> Any address of the website?



https://www.headphone.com/blogs/news/holo-audio-cyan-dac-amp-review

_Review written by Ian Dunmore (@Torq)_


----------



## Torq

attmci said:


> Torq is running his own for-profit website now.



*No I most definitely am not.*

I'm acting as an editor/coordinator/reviewer for headphone.com (and it's associated forum) - which is not my site nor my company.

I'm not paid for it.

I am not compensated by them, or anyone else, for doing reviews (neither directly nor indirectly).

Nor do I go to other sites, like this one, posting links back to those reviews there either or otherwise promoting the site/company.

And for whatever reason my messages to the owner/admins here about sticking an "MOT" flag on my profile have gone unanswered.  Whether that's because I'm just doing some volunteer/for-fun stuff and have no involvement in the product or sales side of things, or because they don't care, I have no idea.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Hey gil,

We are thrilled to announce that Ian Dunmore, perhaps better known in online audio communities as “Torq,” will be joining headphone.com as Managing Editor for both the main Headphone.com site and The HEADPHONE Community

Ian is a long-time music-first audiophile and headphone enthusiast. He has a broad range of experience with audio equipment at all levels and a history of detailed comparative gear reviews. 

In his role he will be coordinating our reviews/reviewers, providing them editorial support as well as continuing to contribute his own reviews and articles. We love Ian's reviews and we think the headphone world is a better place when Ian is writing.

Headphone.com has been a key part of the headphone community since Tyll Hertsens founded it over a quarter-century ago. Ian has the thoughtfulness, passion, intelligence, and values that are central to the headphone.com mission of being the

Here are his last three wonderful reviews if you'd like to check them out:


Sennheiser HD 820 Review
Holo Audio Cyan Review 
SPL Phonitor X Review
Ian's new headphone.com email address is ian@headphones.com - please join us in congratulating him. We're very excited about the future!

Sincerely,
Andrew & Taron Lissimore

This is an email received. So this may need a bit of clarification maybe? So the position is a volunteer one? Good to know.


----------



## Torq

BIG POPPA said:


> This is an email received. So this may need a bit of clarification maybe? So the position is a volunteer one? Good to know.



Yes, entirely volunteer.

I'm *not* an employee.

I receive *no* compensation.

I do it because I enjoy it.  And I like the arrangement as it is, i.e. as an editorially-independent volunteer, as it means I am free from the typical potential outside influences of paid reviews, don't have to be concerned with sales nor advertising revenue nor keeping manufacturers happy and I don't have to spend time with gear I don't like or am not personally interested in.


----------



## BIG POPPA

@Torq imo they needed to say you are a contributor not an editor. And editor is a supervisor that oversees others. They did not do you any favors giving you a title like that. Once it's out there, hard to reel back in to normalcy.


----------



## Torq

BIG POPPA said:


> @Torq imo they needed to say you are a contributor not an editor. And editor is a supervisor that oversees others. They did not do you any favors giving you a title like that. Once it's out there, hard to reel back in to normalcy.



I know what a bleedin' editor is ...

The title is accurate given what I do there, and the support I provide to other reviewers/contributors.  It was something that we discussed ahead of time.  Saying I was just a contributor would not be accurate as I do more than just contribute content/write reviews.

That I do it on a volunteer basis has no bearing on what I actually do or what that is called, any more than being a board member for various (non-audio) related concerns, some of which I also do on a volunteer basis, changes what I do there, or how I would refer to those activities, either.

I'm not sure what would need to be "reeled back" - but perhaps there are assumptions at work there that I'm not following.

Anyway ... this is the Holo Audio Spring DAC thread, so this is all way off topic - if you want to chat about it further I'd suggest a different thread or a PM.

Hope you had fun at last weeks meet!


----------



## cobrabucket

Hello. I have been thinking about upgrading my dac for a while and have long wanted a Chord Qutest, but decided to look around at what else is out there. I currently have an SMSL SU-8 dac into either a THX 789 or a Bottlehead Crack tube amp for headphones, or SU-8 into JBL LSR305s and LSR310 Subwoofer. After looking at available high-end DACs, many people rec'd R2R DACs for their sound signature. At first, I had people suggesting the Denafrips Ares, but after looking into it, it appears that it only has something like an 18 bit ladder. I don't think this would fit my needs, as I listen to a lot of hi-res and DSD music. Logically, the top suggestions for higher end were either the Holo Audio Spring or Audio GD R8 or R1. Ideally, I would like to be able to play DSD natively and have true 24+ bit resistors. Balanced is also preferred. As I am at a crossroads and cannot afford to make a wrong decision, I am asking for input. Thanks!


----------



## aisnikkor

Cobrabucket,

I cannot give any comparison to the other DACs you mention, but I have been very happy with my Spring 2 KTE for both DSD and redbook material. I have been using hqplayer to upsample to DSD512, and really enjoying the music I’m getting out of my setup.  DSD is a solid improvement over redbook from what I am hearing, but good recording engineering and mastering can trump this difference.  In general, I am getting sound now that has a ‘wholeness’ to it that just was not present in any of my previous listening setups.

Some additional points.  Since getting the Holo Spring 2 three months ago, I have bought about 100 more SACDs for my collection - this is reflective of the enjoyment I am getting out of DSD listening.  Also, my experiments with vinyl are done and I will be selling off that gear.  The biggest positive for me though is that I have spent a much larger percentage of my time just enjoying music, rather than analyzing it since getting the Spring 2.


----------



## cobrabucket

aisnikkor said:


> Cobrabucket,
> 
> I cannot give any comparison to the other DACs you mention, but I have been very happy with my Spring 2 KTE for both DSD and redbook material. I have been using hqplayer to upsample to DSD512, and really enjoying the music I’m getting out of my setup.  DSD is a solid improvement over redbook from what I am hearing, but good recording engineering and mastering can trump this difference.  In general, I am getting sound now that has a ‘wholeness’ to it that just was not present in any of my previous listening setups.
> 
> Some additional points.  Since getting the Holo Spring 2 three months ago, I have bought about 100 more SACDs for my collection - this is reflective of the enjoyment I am getting out of DSD listening.  Also, my experiments with vinyl are done and I will be selling off that gear.  The biggest positive for me though is that I have spent a much larger percentage of my time just enjoying music, rather than analyzing it since getting the Spring 2.


Thanks for the insight. Could you tell me about the differences b/n the level 1, 2, and KTE? I will not be able to afford anything other than a level 1 atm.


----------



## aisnikkor (Mar 24, 2019)

cobrabucket said:


> Thanks for the insight. Could you tell me about the differences b/n the level 1, 2, and KTE? I will not be able to afford anything other than a level 1 atm.



Best info on the differences is on the Kitsune website.  In terms of performance differences, this will all be different for each listener.  I was originally looking at the first version Spring in a level 1, and doing some of the mods myself.  But the Spring 2’s were coming out by the time I was going to purchase, and things aligned for me to go for the KTE.

I think you will eventually want a Singxer SU1 or similar if you get a Holo Spring, this also makes a noticeable difference.  As I understand it, it feeds the signal directly to the DAC circuits via I2S, bypassing some additional circuits and cleaning up the signal path.

On “differences” though in audio gear, these improvements can sometimes be incredibly subtle.  The problem is that one persons “subtle” is another persons “night and day”.  I don’t think you would be unhappy with the Level 1, by all accounts it’s still a great DAC.


----------



## Alcophone

cobrabucket said:


> Hello. I have been thinking about upgrading my dac for a while and have long wanted a Chord Qutest, but decided to look around at what else is out there. I currently have an SMSL SU-8 dac into either a THX 789 or a Bottlehead Crack tube amp for headphones, or SU-8 into JBL LSR305s and LSR310 Subwoofer. After looking at available high-end DACs, many people rec'd R2R DACs for their sound signature. At first, I had people suggesting the Denafrips Ares, but after looking into it, it appears that it only has something like an 18 bit ladder. I don't think this would fit my needs, as I listen to a lot of hi-res and DSD music. Logically, the top suggestions for higher end were either the Holo Audio Spring or Audio GD R8 or R1. Ideally, I would like to be able to play DSD natively and have true 24+ bit resistors. Balanced is also preferred. As I am at a crossroads and cannot afford to make a wrong decision, I am asking for input. Thanks!


I am also looking for another good DAC (current favorite being Yggy) and am torn between the Spring 2 and a Denafrips Terminator. The Spring 2 is smaller, cheaper, and has a remote (level 2 and 3), but ultimately sound quality matters most.


----------



## Mrstump5

Alcophone said:


> I am also looking for another good DAC (current favorite being Yggy) and am torn between the Spring 2 and a Denafrips Terminator. The Spring 2 is smaller, cheaper, and has a remote (level 2 and 3), but ultimately sound quality matters most.


What about metrum pavane


----------



## Alcophone

Mrstump5 said:


> What about metrum pavane


Certain fans of the Yggy seem to prefer the Spring over it, but I haven't looked into it much. Thanks for the hint!


----------



## Contrails

I just bought a Turntable - Thorens TD309 and upgraded the Cartridge to VM540ML.  My Holospring DAC LVL 3 comes very very close to it.  I am using Audirvana to upsample to DSD and then feed it to the DAC via SU-1. Certain songs we can't tell the difference but the pops do give it away.  Vinyl does present a deeper soundstage.  There is a slight mid bass hump to the Vinyl but this is more due to the phono I am using - Rega Fono Mk3.  

Would I sell the Holo? Nope.  They both complement each other beautifully.  On certain days I can't be bothered buggering around with setting up the record, I just press play and relax.  Other days, when I am in the mood, I go for the full monty.


----------



## cobrabucket

How is the Spring DAC 1 different than the 2?


----------



## Ravaholm (Mar 25, 2019)

Hi All

I just ordered a Spring 2 Wildism Exreme Edition as part of the process of replacing my current desktop setup (Lyr 1 & Bifrost Uber) and I currently am using an Audeze LCD2C, what would be a good and somewhat affordable (~2000 usd) amp pairing for the Spring 2 and LCD2C?


----------



## Baten (Mar 25, 2019)

Ravaholm said:


> Hi All
> 
> I just ordered a Spring 2 Wildism Exreme Edition as part of the process of replacing my current desktop setup (Lyr 1 & Bifrost Uber) and I currently am using an Audeze LCD2C, what would be a good and somewhat affordable (~2000 usd) amp pairing for the Spring 2 and LCD2C?


I have the same version DAC. I just pair it with the thx aaa amp. Top tier performance honestly, amps don't need to cost $1000-2000 nowadays.
Only other amps I'd consider are the headamp ones.


----------



## Ravaholm

Baten said:


> I have the same version DAC. I just pair it with the thx aaa amp. Top tier performance honestly, amps don't need to cost $1000-2000 nowadays.
> Only other amps I'd consider are the headamp ones.



Oh I definitely would get the THX AAA 789. That is of course if massdrop decides to provide enough supply for the drop to last more than 2 hours...


----------



## 3ggerhappy

I have also ordered from Wildism the wild extreme edition, only concern is, am i missing much using it only on single ended at least for Headphones? be hooking it up with a primaluna dialogue HP > Focal Utopia.

On the otherhand for my speaker setup I could fully utilize the balanced feature with my other amp with balanced. Other considerations I have is the chord hugo 2 and qutest which I have auditioned.  This one i just bought blindly or deafly .


----------



## Baten

3ggerhappy said:


> I have also ordered from Wildism the wild extreme edition, only concern is, am i missing much using it only on single ended at least for Headphones? be hooking it up with a primaluna dialogue HP > Focal Utopia.
> 
> On the otherhand for my speaker setup I could fully utilize the balanced feature with my other amp with balanced. Other considerations I have is the chord hugo 2 and qutest which I have auditioned.  This one i just bought blindly or deafly .


I have used my wildism spring 2 single ended lots of times. It sounds godlike I would not worry about it.


----------



## gr8soundz

Can the original Spring or Spring 2 internally upsample ALL input to DSD?  For instance, if I input native PCM over USB or i2S can the Spring (in OS DSD mode) output DSD512 (or 1024, etc)?

I've been searching for another R2R DAC (to replace my Soekris) that can do this instead of using a PC for DSD transcoding. Other than the iDSD Pro (which is a hybrid Multibit), it seems there are very few DACs that can do this.


----------



## Baten

gr8soundz said:


> Can the original Spring or Spring 2 internally upsample ALL input to DSD?  For instance, if I input native PCM over USB or i2S can the Spring (in OS DSD mode) output DSD512 (or 1024, etc)?
> 
> I've been searching for another R2R DAC (to replace my Soekris) that can do this instead of using a PC for DSD transcoding. Other than the iDSD Pro (which is a hybrid Multibit), it seems there are very few DACs that can do this.


The resampler is fixed at DSD256. it also lowers the volume by 6dB which you need to compensate for with your amp

I'm sure others will also tell you that the chip resampler isn't as good as with a dedicated PC, same thing with the iFi. But honestly it "works" okay, I sometimes upsample to DSD but generally leave it on NOS where it sounds sublime


----------



## cobrabucket

On a first gen Spring DAC, how is the usb? I have read about people not liking it. I see that there is an upgraded usb card available on the Kitsune site. I am guessing that is the usb in the v2? I also see people suggesting that a DDC like a Singxer Su1 would be optimal to use the I2S. Does the standard version of Su1 work with Spring DACs? Or does it have to be modded somehow [for power reasons]?


----------



## BlueDL

cobrabucket said:


> On a first gen Spring DAC, how is the usb? I have read about people not liking it. I see that there is an upgraded usb card available on the Kitsune site. I am guessing that is the usb in the v2? I also see people suggesting that a DDC like a Singxer Su1 would be optimal to use the I2S. Does the standard version of Su1 work with Spring DACs? Or does it have to be modded somehow [for power reasons]?


The stock SU-1 is pretty good, but it makes sense (depending on how revealing your amp / phones / speakers are) to bypass the on board rectification circuit to allow the use of an external Linear Power Supply with 5V output. Kitsune used to do a mod kit for around $30, not sure if it’s still available? You can also change regulator chips for low noise versions and even swap out capacitors, whatever you’re comfortable with. Kitsune sell a ready-tweaked SU-1 as do Magna hifi in Europe. If you go I2S from the SU-1 to the Spring (the two are compatible and the SU-1 can be adjusted with an array of tiny switches for various DACs), keep the HDMI lead as short as your rig permits, as this is a noise-prone area in the audio chain. Sorry, I hardly ever used the USB input on my Spring Level 1, so can’t comment other than I immediately heard the benefit the SU-1 gave.


----------



## Baten

To elaborate on this. The newest spring USB board is so good you don't need an additional digital device imo. I have a spring 2 and had a singxer su-1. There's little point since the usb already goes so far. It might have a point if you want to break some noise loop though, via optical/balanced aes ebu digital connection. But in terms of I2S-HDMI vs newest USB, performance is just about the same. My experience


----------



## T Bone

cobrabucket said:


> On a first gen Spring DAC, how is the usb? I have read about people not liking it.


I've been rather vocal about what I felt was a poor quality USB implementation on the original Holo Spring.  It was by far inferior to the I2S input.  ....which is why so many Spring owners purchased Singxer SU-1s.  



cobrabucket said:


> Does the standard version of Su1 work with Spring DACs? Or does it have to be modded somehow [for power reasons]?


The standard Singxer SU-1 works just fine.  A lot of people went on to "hot rod" their SU-1 and bypass the internal power supply with an external linear power supply.   I'm one of the guys that did all of those mods.  I bought an Uplone ISOREGEN to clean up the USB signal.  I power the ISO Regen and the Singxer SU-1 with a linear power supply.  Each mod improved the performance just a little bit.  

If you want a deal on modified Singxer SU-1, ISO Regen and Linear power supply let me know!  I'm not using any of that gear with my new Chord Qutest.


----------



## T Bone

BlueDL said:


> it makes sense to bypass the on board rectification circuit to allow the use of an external Linear Power Supply with 5V output.
> You can also change regulator chips for low noise versions and even swap out capacitors, whatever you’re comfortable with.


I did *all* of those mods to my SU-1.  I bypassed the internal power supply to power it with an external LPS.  I soldered in new voltage regulators chips and swapped caps.  I was able to wring out a little more performance out of the SU-1.  ...I primarily did it because it was fun and relatively easy to do.  If you're not handy with a soldering iron, I wouldn't lie awake at night thinking your missing out on some ultimate performance tweak.


----------



## BlueDL

T Bone said:


> I did *all* of those mods to my SU-1.  I bypassed the internal power supply to power it with an external LPS.  I soldered in new voltage regulators chips and swapped caps.  I was able to wring out a little more performance out of the SU-1.  ...I primarily did it because it was fun and relatively easy to do.  If you're not handy with a soldering iron, I wouldn't lie awake at night thinking your missing out on some ultimate performance tweak.


As well as the bypass, I added a Sparkos SS1117XX Discrete Voltage Regulator ( +3.3V), but I drew the line at swapping out the capacitors. I get my 5V d.c. from an Uptone LPS-1.

Are you using a 12V LPS with the Qutest?


----------



## cobrabucket

I see they have usb upgrade cards available on the Kitsune site. Is this the same as the usb in the v2? If I bought this, is there soldering involved?


----------



## T Bone

BlueDL said:


> I added a Sparkos SS1117XX Discrete Voltage Regulator ( +3.3V)


Yup, that's one that one that I installed too.  It was a pretty simple mod.



BlueDL said:


> Are you using a 12V LPS with the Qutest?


Not yet.  The consensus among Qutest owners seems to be that it doesn't respond to the typical audio nerd tweaks in the same way that other DACs have.  Linear power supplies haven't seemed to make a significant difference.  Rob Watts chose a low noise "wall wart" to ship with the Qutest.    Since I already own the Uptone LPS I plan to try it out for myself & see if I can find an improvement with my own ears.

Similarly, USB tweaks like the ISOREGEN and similar de-crapifiers don't seem to make a positive impact.  According to Rob Watts they may in fact introduce noise!  

The only real tweaks that seem to get any traction are different USB cables.  I recently swapped to a Curious USB cable and I believe that it made a positive difference.


----------



## BlueDL

T Bone said:


> Yup, that's one that one that I installed too.  It was a pretty simple mod.
> 
> 
> Not yet.  The consensus among Qutest owners seems to be that it doesn't respond to the typical audio nerd tweaks in the same way that other DACs have.  Linear power supplies haven't seemed to make a significant difference.  Rob Watts chose a low noise "wall wart" to ship with the Qutest.    Since I already own the Uptone LPS I plan to try it out for myself & see if I can find an improvement with my own ears.
> ...


Until I got my Uptone USPCB, I used a short Curious Cables link from uR to SU-1. They are good cables (for some reason).


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Mine arrived in my hotel already currently in HK right now for a vacation.




 

Some pics sent by Wildism after the mod, Excellent service from Wildism. Cant wait to get home.


----------



## Baten

3ggerhappy said:


> Mine arrived in my hotel already currently in HK right now for a vacation.
> 
> 
> 
> Some pics sent by Wildism after the mod, Excellent service from Wildism. Cant wait to get home.



Looks so great right 

I find it funny how transparent Wildism is while for Kitsune KTE edition there are no internal pics...


----------



## Ysound

Hi,

How much did the Wildism Exreme Edition cost?
I'm debating between the Wildism Exreme Edition and the KTE.

Thanks


----------



## Baten (Apr 6, 2019)

Ysound said:


> Hi,
> 
> How much did the Wildism Exreme Edition cost?
> I'm debating between the Wildism Exreme Edition and the KTE.
> ...


The original LEVEL 2 price HKD14900
Short time discounted price was HKD13900, just south of $1800

Add to that the LEVEL 3 mod, +HKD8700
Add to that Intl shipping, +HKD1200

In the end it is near $3000 vs the Kitsune $2700 + $150(?) shipping.
So, close. But for KTE, there is no internal pics available whatsoever.


----------



## Ysound

Thank you Baten. Got intouch with Wildism, they will not sell to US customers and said to buy from a US distributor which I assume is only Kitsune.


----------



## Baten

Ysound said:


> Thank you Baten. Got intouch with Wildism, they will not sell to US customers and said to buy from a US distributor which I assume is only Kitsune.


Oh sorry, that is a pity... I bought shipped to Europe. The case was scuffed a tiny bit from travel but the overall experience was great. I was more inclined to order from China than from magna hifi..


----------



## Don Quichotte

Baten said:


> I was more inclined to order from China than from magna hifi..


Why is that? Bad experiences with Magna? I'm directly interested...


----------



## Baten (Apr 7, 2019)

Don Quichotte said:


> Why is that? Bad experiences with Magna? I'm directly interested...


Nothing major, just general not super friendliness in mail correspondence, and overall rather high prices on their holo spring stuff / modded su-1. I'm sure they're fine..


----------



## Currawong

Tim has sent over to me a Spring 2 KTE and Azure amp for review, which I've been listening with for the past couple of weeks.



Baten said:


> Looks so great right
> 
> I find it funny how transparent Wildism is while for Kitsune KTE edition there are no internal pics...



I thought that the pictures on the Kitsune site showed the KTE version internals? The label on the transformer in the pictures show "Kitsune Tuned Edition".


----------



## Baten (Apr 7, 2019)

Currawong said:


> Tim has sent over to me a Spring 2 KTE and Azure amp for review, which I've been listening with for the past couple of weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought that the pictures on the Kitsune site showed the KTE version internals? The label on the transformer in the pictures show "Kitsune Tuned Edition".


So the level 3 is just level 2 with silver wiring/transformer..??? Or am i missing something..
KTE Spring-2:
1. 100VAC O-type Silver
2. All copper wire is replaced with 1.5mm pure occ silver wire
3. Hand Selected Dac module to have best measurements compared to averages.
4. All PCB plugs and wire plugs are removed and then wire is soldered direct to the PCB
5. Replaced IEC inlet connectors with pure silver/rhodium plated faston connectors at the IEC inlet
6. Fuse is upgraded with world class audio grade A.M. Ultimate SHD Beeswax fuse
7. Mundorf EVO Silver/Gold Oil caps (we have done extensive testing and these prove to provide the very best sound quality) <-- this is on all spring 2 level 2 as far as I know??
8. Special Kitsune Tuned Edition branding inside and out
9. KitsuneHiFi VIP service, english support and manuals/software

I mean I don't mean to shill for Wildism I really just went for them because of the pretty internal pics.
But this is their Level 3 Mod in detail. Wild Edition Extreme:
1.100va Pure Silver Transformer
2.Jensen Ceramic Tube Copper Foil Oil Cap
3.Xsymphony Pure Silver Litz Wiring
-Double Run IEC to AC board
-Single Run AC board to Main Board
4.take out all plastic plug
5.Audionote Kaisei Bipolar Cap
  10000uf 25v x2
6. Ground Filter
7.Audionote Kaisei Bipolar Cap
  2200uf 16v x4
8.Audionote Kaisei Bipolar Cap
  10uf 16v x4
9.Audionote Kaisei Bipolar Cap
  5uf 16v x4
10.Audionote Trans-280 Digital Isolation Transformer


----------



## Currawong

It'd definitely be interesting to compare both mods.   Of course, big, fat capacitors look impressive. Whether or not they improve anything depends on a number of factors.


----------



## Ravaholm

Currawong said:


> Tim has sent over to me a Spring 2 KTE and Azure amp for review, which I've been listening with for the past couple of weeks.



As I am reasonably sure wildism stocks the Azure, I would very much like your impressions of that combo and perhaps a comparison to the 789 AAA.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

@Baten I have read your impressions on the other site, and now have been trying upsampling to dsd and I was like wow really a noticeable difference. My current hardware could only do up to 128x and was already impressed. Now just curious what is your source and its spec and what player are you using? I am planning to upgrade mine for a capable one up to dsd512. I currently have a HP Prodesk with Daphile(i5, 4gb ram) and could only do up to 128, switching to 256 it would already stutter. Tried with my MacBook Pro/HQ Player Trial and could only do 256. TIA.


----------



## Baten

3ggerhappy said:


> @Baten I have read your impressions on the other site, and now have been trying upsampling to dsd and I was like wow really a noticeable difference. My current hardware could only do up to 128x and was already impressed. Now just curious what is your source and its spec and what player are you using? I am planning to upgrade mine for a capable one up to dsd512. I currently have a HP Prodesk with Daphile(i5, 4gb ram) and could only do up to 128, switching to 256 it would already stutter. Tried with my MacBook Pro/HQ Player Trial and could only do 256. TIA.


Hiya, on computeraudiophile people build Intel Xeon based machines just for DSD512 (and up). My highly overclocked i7 7th gen could only do DSD256, DSD512 sometimes stuttered which isn't nice during listening.

While super upsampling sounds very polished, I'm a sucker for NOS so just stick to bitperfect rates of my music. But yes, I can understand the appeal but won't build a mega expensive computer for it


----------



## Ravaholm

I just picked up my Spring 2 from Wildism and ended up also buying the Azure.

I just can't bloody help myself sometimes...


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Baten said:


> Hiya, on computeraudiophile people build Intel Xeon based machines just for DSD512 (and up). My highly overclocked i7 7th gen could only do DSD256, DSD512 sometimes stuttered which isn't nice during listening.
> 
> While super upsampling sounds very polished, I'm a sucker for NOS so just stick to bitperfect rates of my music. But yes, I can understand the appeal but won't build a mega expensive computer for it



Thanks for the info. I have added a singxer su-6/i2s onto my chain and again a huge step up, I now prefer it bit perfect with the singxer w/c has the perfect balance of sound for me. Things I observed with USB no upsampling to DSD is its kind of bright and harsh, upsampling to dsd as you said sound polished and to me kinda softens the sound. Only issue with the singxer is why are the channels reversed ?


----------



## oneguy

There was a firmware update for the SU-1 that corrected that. Maybe the SU-6 will get one.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Thanks, I was able to fix the channels through the su-6's pin configuration. Turns out the su6 has additional pins(PIN 7-10) for channel configuration. For the Holo PIN 7,9,10 should be set to ON this is for the current firmware 2.21 of the su6.


----------



## tennisets

Has anyone had trouble with certain sources and the coax input? Specifically I'm using the Holo Spring 2 and a Fiio DAP.

I tried to hook up a Fiio M11 today using the supplied 4-pole 3.5mm to RCA adapter and a 75 ohm coax cable and it wouldn't lock. I then connected the same setup to a Chord Hugo 2 (with an additional 2-pole 3.5mm to RCA adapter) and it worked fine. I'm not sure what's going on here - in my experience spdif pretty much just always works, but these two devices (Fiio and Holo Spring 2) do not seem to play well together.

The Spring also doesn't like the Fiio's USB out, via usb-c to usb-a adapter. Curious. I was really hoping to use the Fiio as a streamer but it seems like it might be a bust.


----------



## Ravaholm

Ok, I have been back in NZ for about 3 days, I have the my Wildism Extreme Spring 2 XLR'd to the Holo Audio Azure which is leashed to and Audeze LCD2C stock cable single ended.

First impression: Vastly better than my previous Schiit Lyr 1 + Pre AKM4490 Bifrost Uber (You would bloody hope so for the price of the Spring alone.) Much better seperation, deep blackground and just overall much better detail retrieval. I do feel the LCD2C is not the best pairing as highs are a bit too relaxed for a lack of a better term.

I have been running mostly through my 24bit playlist and everything so far sounds sublime, I have ordered a Amplifier Surgery XLR 4pin Cable 2 weeks ago, can't wait for it to arrive :3

Examples of albums I have sampled through so far via Foobar2000 with Replay Gain on: (Sample Rate - Album Artist - Album)

24/176 - Aerosmith - O, YEAH! ULTIMATE AEROSMITH HITS
24/192 - Bob Marley & The Wailers - Legend (Remastered)
24/88 - Boston - Boston (2000 Remaster)
24/96 - Chorogonzu - Ishukan Communication Single
24/48 - Minami - Kawaki wo Ameku mini album
24/96 - Naruyoshi Kikuchi - MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM THUNDERBOLT ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACK
24/96 - Satoru Kosaki - Suzumiya Haruhi no Kansou ~Complete Soundtrack~
24/96 - Yoko Kanno - COWBOY BEBOP originalsoundtrack3 BLUE
16/44 - Li Wei - The Devil's Guzheng
16/44 - Archive - Controlling Crowds
16/44 - Miwa - Kataomoi
16/44 - Supercell - Today Is A Beautiful Day
16/44 - Coeur de Pirate - Coeur de Pirate

Just one question, is it save for both the Azure and Spring to be on Mute 24/7 rather than off?


----------



## Baten

Ravaholm said:


> Ok, I have been back in NZ for about 3 days, I have the my Wildism Extreme Spring 2 XLR'd to the Holo Audio Azure which is leashed to and Audeze LCD2C stock cable single ended.
> 
> First impression: Vastly better than my previous Schiit Lyr 1 + Pre AKM4490 Bifrost Uber (You would bloody hope so for the price of the Spring alone.) Much better seperation, deep blackground and just overall much better detail retrieval. I do feel the LCD2C is not the best pairing as highs are a bit too relaxed for a lack of a better term.
> 
> ...



Mute keeps the system at ideal temperature and is recommended


----------



## DSK

Ravaholm said:


> … Just one question, is it save for both the Azure and Spring to be on Mute 24/7 rather than off? ...



For the last year or so I've always just switched the pre-amp/amp (or integrated amp more recently) to standby and left the Spring on. No problems so far.


----------



## ufospls2

Look what just arrived for review! Can't wait to spend the next 3 weeks with this DAC : )


----------



## Currawong (May 17, 2019)

I've been rather overwhelmed lately (see the photo) so I didn't get around to posting anything, but now some years after we originally discussed it, I have the Spring 2 KTE, Azure amp and SU1 KTE here. I've also been playing around with HQPlayer, something that I can do now that I use Roon primarily.

I'd been missing the purely engaging sound of a friend's Marantz Project D-1 which I'd borrowed to see how it compared to modern DACs, but no longer. This DAC is, unfortunately for me, quite addictive to listen with. In NOS mode, or with HQPlayer PCM up-sampling and fed via a good transport t's not "warm" like the Audio-gd DACs I've had here*, nor "dry" like the Yggdrasil. DSD, whether native or via re-resampling (inbuilt or otherwise) sounds flat to me though, with a big loss in dynamics.  I don't consider that a loss though as the majority of music I listen to is on TIDAL or PCM anyway.

*Though this has probably changed somewhat with new firmware.


----------



## Baten

Currawong said:


> I've been rather overwhelmed lately (see the photo) so I didn't get around to posting anything, but now some years after we originally discussed it, I have the Spring 2 KTE, Azure amp and SU1 KTE here. I've also been playing around with HQPlayer, something that I can do now that I use Roon primarily.
> 
> I'd been missing the purely engaging sound of a friend's Marantz Project D-1 which I'd borrowed to see how it compared to modern DACs, but no longer. This DAC is, unfortunately for me, quite addictive to listen with. In NOS mode, or with HQPlayer PCM up-sampling and fed via a good transport t's not "warm" like the Audio-gd DACs I've had here*, nor "dry" like the Yggdrasil. DSD, whether native or via re-resampling (inbuilt or otherwise) sounds flat to me though, with a big loss in dynamics.  I don't consider that a loss though as the majority of music I listen to is on TIDAL or PCM anyway.
> 
> *Though this has probably changed somewhat with new firmware.


Definitely agree. The Spring really sounds unlike other designs. That is one sweet maxed out set-up you're rocking!


----------



## Jvincent

Currawong said:


> Tim has sent over to me a Spring 2 KTE and Azure amp for review, which I've been listening with for the past couple of weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought that the pictures on the Kitsune site showed the KTE version internals? The label on the transformer in the pictures show "Kitsune Tuned Edition".



I've watched your YouTube video reviews for a while. Thanks for all the work you do. 

Are you still reviewing the Spring 2 KTE and Azure?
I am looking at getting both the amp and dac and pairing with the Meze Empyrean. 
What are you're thought of the amp and dac plus the pairing? 
Thank you,
Josh


----------



## Currawong

Jvincent said:


> I've watched your YouTube video reviews for a while. Thanks for all the work you do.
> 
> Are you still reviewing the Spring 2 KTE and Azure?
> I am looking at getting both the amp and dac and pairing with the Meze Empyrean.
> ...



I'm still going to do the review. I'll go into detail later, as I still want to A/B a few things. Basically though, the DAC in NOS mode and PCM music, or with poly-sync-xtr PCM up-sampling from HQPlayer using a good transport (important!) is _excellent. _Honestly makes me want to not stop listening. DSD of any kind (actual or up-sampled) sounds flat, with flat soundstage and dynamics. The amp is harder to nail down, as different set-ups are subtly different (and comparing 3 ~$1500 amps is tricky) but if you just went ahead and bought the whole kit from Kitsune to use with the Empyrean, then I'm sure you'll be happy.


----------



## Jvincent

Currawong said:


> I'm still going to do the review. I'll go into detail later, as I still want to A/B a few things. Basically though, the DAC in NOS mode and PCM music, or with poly-sync-xtr PCM up-sampling from HQPlayer using a good transport (important!) is _excellent. _Honestly makes me want to not stop listening. DSD of any kind (actual or up-sampled) sounds flat, with flat soundstage and dynamics. The amp is harder to nail down, as different set-ups are subtly different (and comparing 3 ~$1500 amps is tricky) but if you just went ahead and bought the whole kit from Kitsune to use with the Empyrean, then I'm sure you'll be happy.




Thanks for the info! Glad you're still going to do the review. I look forward to it, any thoughts on this vs the yggdrasil or the idsd? Or is this part of your video? If so I'll be more than happy to wait for the video to get anything new.


----------



## donato (Jun 20, 2019)

I just bought a Spring 1 KTE from a local.  I'm coming from a Yggy USB5/A2/Violectric V281 mostly/bunch of different cans.  Need more headtime, but a couple things that always bugged me just a bit about the Yggy were some sibilance on bright recordings, hardness/clanginess with middle/upper range of piano, too much sizzle on some cymbal crashes.  Neither of these seem to be an issue for me with the Holo Spring KTE.  I'll have to see how much it does right compared to the Yggy, but it seems to do less wrong than the Yggy.  Using USB input at the moment and will switch to I2S when I also buy the sellers Singxer SU-1 KTE tonight.

EDIT 6/20/19: After spending the last few week purely with the Holo Spring, I decided to go back to the Yggy for comparison.  I had some USB weirdness going on with my PC so through the troubleshooting I did power cycle the Yggy.  I relistened to those tracks (one was chamber music on 44.1/16 FLAC and the other was a symphony on 96/24 FLAC from HDTracks) using an Ether 2 since I had just done a lot of cable comparison listening recently; I didn't hear any of that hardness or sizzle.  It does have a slightly brighter balance than the Holo spring.  I remembered I had done my previous listening with my H2K V2 so I went back to that; no hardness or sizzle.  I remembered I had a different pre-gain setting (-12 instead of -6 with the holo) on my Violectric V281 so I set that; no hardness or sizzle.  I also had another cable that I had been using that was tuned more neutral; still ok.  I think I might have been using no oversampling in Roon, so I turned that off.  Slightly edgier, but not hardness or sizzle.  So I don't know what it was that caused all of that hardness or sizzle previously, but I seem to have exorcised that (at least for now).  Guess I'll have to do more detail listening between the two now.


----------



## Currawong

I've finally got the DACs in the speaker rig, direct, which has been interesting to compare. The HSKTE is the smoother and more "musical" DAC compared to the Yggy, but the Hugo 2 and Yggy come through as more detailed. This using the SU-1 KTE feeding both.  I think it will be very system-synergy dependent.


----------



## Pietro Cozzi Tinin

Currawong said:


> I've finally got the DACs in the speaker rig, direct, which has been interesting to compare. The HSKTE is the smoother and more "musical" DAC compared to the Yggy, but the Hugo 2 and Yggy come through as more detailed. This using the SU-1 KTE feeding both.  I think it will be very system-synergy dependent.


I hope you get to the same comparison with the gd R7 v2.


----------



## donato

I've had my Holo Spring KTE and SU-1 KTE for about a week now.  I pretty much just listened in I2S mode since everyone seemed to say that was best.  I finally decided to test it for myself.  I'm using a 1ft Blue Jeans belden HDMI cable for I2S, a 0.5m BlueJeans Belden for AES, a generic USB cable for USB input to the Holo Spring and an Audioquest Diamond USB for input into SU-1.  0.5m Wireworld Platinum Eclipse into V281 set at -6db on input gain.  Playback via Roon, no oversampling and HS KTE in NOS mode of course. I only used one track from the Mravinsky recording of Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony, 96/24 FLAC from HDTracks.  I'll try out some other genres later. 

No new findings from anyone else - I2S > AES > direct USB.  AES and USB seemed to flatten the soundstage (perhaps due to some loss of detail?) compared to I2S.  USB compared to I2S or AES seemed just a touch strident on violin.  At the risk of overstating things, it does seem like I2S is where the magic happens although everyone who's reading this probably already knows that.

Also, now that I solved(?) my Yggy issue with a reboot, I can finally do some real comparisons with the Holo Spring.  I'll have to figure out which is better on the Yggy though - SU-1 AES to Yggy or just direct USB into Yggy.


----------



## Alcophone

donato said:


> I've had my Holo Spring KTE and SU-1 KTE for about a week now.  I pretty much just listened in I2S mode since everyone seemed to say that was best.  I finally decided to test it for myself.  I'm using a 1ft Blue Jeans belden HDMI cable for I2S, a 0.5m BlueJeans Belden for AES, a generic USB cable for USB input to the Holo Spring and an Audioquest Diamond USB for input into SU-1.  0.5m Wireworld Platinum Eclipse into V281 set at -6db on input gain.  Playback via Roon, no oversampling and HS KTE in NOS mode of course. I only used one track from the Mravinsky recording of Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony, 96/24 FLAC from HDTracks.  I'll try out some other genres later.
> 
> No new findings from anyone else - I2S > AES > direct USB.  AES and USB seemed to flatten the soundstage (perhaps due to some loss of detail?) compared to I2S.  USB compared to I2S or AES seemed just a touch strident on violin.  At the risk of overstating things, it does seem like I2S is where the magic happens although everyone who's reading this probably already knows that.
> 
> Also, now that I solved(?) my Yggy issue with a reboot, I can finally do some real comparisons with the Holo Spring.  I'll have to figure out which is better on the Yggy though - SU-1 AES to Yggy or just direct USB into Yggy.


I have not compared the SU-1 KTE with Yggy's USB input yet, but otherwise I found AES and BNC do be pretty much on par, with coax noticeably worse. There's a variety of cables I still haven't tried yet (both for AES and for BNC), though.


----------



## donato

Is there any "consensus" on server-side upsampling when running in NOS mode?  First, is upsampling preferred?  It seems to give a bit more detail and space on soundstaging and a touch smoother from the little bit of comparison I've done (this with Roon's PCM max x2 upsampling).  I read that a lot of people are converting and upsampling PCM to DSD with HQplayer.  I played with that a bit, but there are no native drivers for Mac, so, one, I'm limited to DoP which then, two, limits me to DSD256.  I'm trying to understand if it's worth it set things up on another PC and go DSD512.  Is DSD that big an improvement over PCM even if source is PCM to begin with?


----------



## Currawong

I thought that DSD, whether native or via re-sampling, sounds flat through the Spring. The up-sampling mode I liked the most was to 384k using poly-sync-xt through the SU-1 KTE at 20-bit using HQPlayer.


----------



## rydenfan

Looking forward to seeing a few comparisons with the Yiggy. Interested in both DACs. Like will use Audiobyte Hydra Z for i2s conversion


----------



## eee1111

rydenfan said:


> Looking forward to seeing a few comparisons with the Yiggy. Interested in both DACs. Like will use Audiobyte Hydra Z for i2s conversion



its really tough for me to make a choice between the spring and yiggy

you can't go wrong with either


----------



## Currawong

Here's my review, including a comparison with the Yggy.


----------



## eee1111

Currawong said:


> Here's my review, including a comparison with the Yggy.




Have you had time with the level 3? 
How does it compare to the level 2?


----------



## donato

Currawong said:


> Here's my review, including a comparison with the Yggy.




that was a fantastic well done review.  I appreciated the history and the comparisons from my informal comparisons with the Yggy (a touch drier) line up well with yours.  I've been constantly moving my system towards musical rather than revealing and have found the HS KTE to fit the bill.  I also found your information about DSD sounding flat interesting since that seems to be so much the rage with folks using HQplayer (haven't yet played with it much myself).  I also found your review of feeding it 20-bit sound to be interesting that it smoothed it even more and it sounded like you thought perhaps a touch overly so.  In any case, thanks for such a well done review.


----------



## donato

eee1111 said:


> Have you had time with the level 3?
> How does it compare to the level 2?



The KTE is Kitsune's level 3.  I think they stopped calling it L3 to avoid confusion with the other L3 versions that are out there from other distributors outside of the U.S.


----------



## eee1111 (Jul 4, 2019)

Oh I see

Spring 2 is the newest version.

The KTE now has a logo on the top. The KTE I have doesn’t.

Holo spring level 1-3 (3 being KTE)
Holo spring 2 level 1-2-KTE

Not so hot at naming imo


----------



## rydenfan

Currawong said:


> Here's my review, including a comparison with the Yggy.





Absolutely awesome review! Super helpful!! I use a DNA Stratus which I think is similar to your amps; tubes but not overly warm. Very fast and musical. 

You refer to the Holo multiple times as musical or warm side of the spectrum. Did you feel like it sacrificed anything as a result? Like detail or sounstaging etc? Any downside to it?

Also, did you like high Rez like DSD in NOS mode? Or still no? I do listen to resolutions beyond 44.1 so wanted to be sure. 

Thanks!!! And again amazing reveiw


----------



## Alcophone

donato said:


> that was a fantastic well done review.


I finally got mine yesterday, in case you want to hear one again yourself. 



eee1111 said:


> Holo spring level 1-3 (3 being KTE)
> Holo spring 2 level 1-2-KTE
> 
> Not so hot at naming imo


I agree, already had someone who thought I wanted the Spring Level 2 when I mentioned wanting to buy a Spring 2 KTE (he didn't know about the newer model).


----------



## donato

Alcophone said:


> I finally got mine yesterday, in case you want to hear one again yourself.



Nice!  Looking forward to reading your review!


----------



## whirlwind

I listen to my KTE L3 in nothing but NOS mode...I can't find a reason to change it from my ears.
Two tube amps a GOTL and a GEL3N and a GSX mk2 all sound incredible and musical.
I have heard many describe the GSX mk2 as bright. This is certainly not the case to my ears when using this dac.


----------



## Currawong

rydenfan said:


> Absolutely awesome review! Super helpful!! I use a DNA Stratus which I think is similar to your amps; tubes but not overly warm. Very fast and musical.
> 
> You refer to the Holo multiple times as musical or warm side of the spectrum. Did you feel like it sacrificed anything as a result? Like detail or sounstaging etc? Any downside to it?
> 
> ...



It's difficult to answer about soundstage. The only DACs I've had here which accurately portrays soundstage width and depth (which I have only ever heard reproduced by speakers or the Focal Utopias and SR009s -- not that I've tried this with all high-end headphones so there will probably be others) have been the Hugo 2 and DAVE (I haven't had the TT2 here yet). However, for most headphones I've used, you don't get a true sense of depth reproduced anyway, so the difference in soundstage between digital filters (or no digital filter, ie: NOS) is not so apparent.

Maybe I summarised it too fast in the video, so it might have been easy to miss. DSD sounded flat and lacking in dynamics. High-res PCM sounded smoother than 44.1, and smoother than from the Yggdrasil or Hugo 2. I should probably switch to using the trick of saying the same thing three different ways in my videos so that nobody misses these things.


----------



## rydenfan (Jul 4, 2019)

Currawong said:


> It's difficult to answer about soundstage. The only DACs I've had here which accurately portrays soundstage width and depth (which I have only ever heard reproduced by speakers or the Focal Utopias and SR009s -- not that I've tried this with all high-end headphones so there will probably be others) have been the Hugo 2 and DAVE (I haven't had the TT2 here yet). However, for most headphones I've used, you don't get a true sense of depth reproduced anyway, so the difference in soundstage between digital filters (or no digital filter, ie: NOS) is not so apparent.
> 
> Maybe I summarised it too fast in the video, so it might have been easy to miss. DSD sounded flat and lacking in dynamics. High-res PCM sounded smoother than 44.1, and smoother than from the Yggdrasil or Hugo 2. I should probably switch to using the trick of saying the same thing three different ways in my videos so that nobody misses these things.




Thanks. Fair point on the sound stage in relation to headphones.

I did catch your point about DSD. I just wasn’t clear if that was in a particular mode or all modes. As I listen to high res files this is a big deal for me so wanted to triple check. I had been back and forth between this Holo with the mentioned USB bridge or the Yiggy.

Did the warmth of the Holo come at the expense of any micro detail loss? Or it still portrayed all detail well


----------



## Currawong

I think it still portrays detail well, at least with PCM, but not as super-focussed as the other DACs I have.


----------



## quanghuy147

Does anyone get a chance to listen to both Spring 3 and Yggy A2? Could you do a biref comparison?

Thank you.


----------



## eee1111

quanghuy147 said:


> Does anyone get a chance to listen to both Spring 3 and Yggy A2? Could you do a biref comparison?
> 
> Thank you.



I dunno how many will respond but I can give you this.....

I have not owned the yggy but I did own the Gumby.

I have listened to the yggy in the past and just recently and I liked it a lot. But....the edges are rough on schiit DACs. They’re piercing. The KTE isn’t. It must have something to do with the delta sigma vs r2r design. 

I just got rid of my Gumby because I don’t use it. It wasn’t anywhere near as good as the KTE. Worlds apart imo.

So take my impression of the Gumby and look at someone’s Gumby vs yggy. Maybe it will help.

My amp is a gsxmk2


----------



## Baten

eee1111 said:


> I have listened to the yggy in the past and just recently and I liked it a lot. But....the edges are rough on schiit DACs. They’re piercing. The KTE isn’t. It must have something to do with the delta sigma vs r2r design.
> 
> I just got rid of my Gumby because I don’t use it. It wasn’t anywhere near as good as the KTE. Worlds apart imo.
> 
> ...


Do you listen to 44/48khz? if so you're liking the NOS sound I believe =) spring excels at it


----------



## Alcophone

quanghuy147 said:


> Does anyone get a chance to listen to both Spring 3 and Yggy A2? Could you do a biref comparison?
> 
> Thank you.


Don't call it that :-D
There are...

Spring Level 1
Spring Level 2
Spring KTE aka Level 3
Spring 2 Level 1
Spring 2 Level 2
Spring 2 KTE
I recently got a Spring 2 KTE and did a few comparisons, running both off of a Singxer SU-1 KTE, I2S into the Spring 2 KTE with the best sounding of my five short HDMI cables, and BNC into the Yggdrasil (Analog 2). Spring 2 KTE in NOS mode, which sounds best to me.

I like both from a tonality point of view, but the Spring 2 KTE sounds sluggish in comparison. The Yggy is faster, i.e. more dynamic, more visceral, sounds more lively. So far, anyway, I'm about threw weeks in.

With Yggy driven by a different DDC that turned out to not be bitperfect when clocked externally, I had some harshness that got better with different XLR cables into the Schiit Ragnarok 2. I later switched to the internal clock and the harshness went away completely. I mention that because if the Yggdrasil sounds unpleasant, the cables used may contribute to it. I've never noticed cable differences as much as with the Ragnarok 2, though.

I mostly compared with speakers, but had the same impression with my Ether C Flows.


----------



## Alcophone

eee1111 said:


> I have listened to the yggy in the past and just recently and I liked it a lot. But....the edges are rough on schiit DACs. They’re piercing. The KTE isn’t. It must have something to do with the delta sigma vs r2r design.


Neither of the DACs is delta sigma based. Gumby = Gungnir Multibit, i.e not the delta sigma version.


----------



## eee1111

Baten said:


> Do you listen to 44/48khz? if so you're liking the NOS sound I believe =) spring excels at it



Yeah I do. 

PCM -nos for usb music.


----------



## Baten

Alcophone said:


> Neither of the DACs is delta sigma based. Gumby = Gungnir Multibit, i.e not the delta sigma version.


I do believe he meant NOS dac vs oversampling (schiit 'comboburrito') instead or R2R<->DS. simple mistake


----------



## eee1111

Alcophone said:


> Neither of the DACs is delta sigma based. Gumby = Gungnir Multibit, i.e not the delta sigma version.



Either way the Gumby multibit I owned I sold.


----------



## Alcophone

Baten said:


> I do believe he meant NOS dac vs oversampling (schiit 'comboburrito') instead or R2R<->DS. simple mistake


I thought maybe he meant chip vs discrete design. We may never know


----------



## eee1111 (Jul 19, 2019)

Baten said:


> I do believe he meant NOS dac vs oversampling (schiit 'comboburrito') instead or R2R<->DS. simple mistake



My issue with the schiit sound was that it sounded metallic and forced.


Alcophone said:


> Don't call it that :-D
> There are...
> 
> Spring Level 1
> ...



My comparison is with he1000v2 and lcd3

I also don’t like schiit amps either. Mjolnir 2 and ragnarock were not enjoyable. But that’s just me.

So maybe it’s just the gsx mk2 hates schiit. And the spring level 3 hates their amps.

Never listened to the c flow.

This is all just my ears obviously. I’m sure when it comes to preference it is going to be different from person to person. A TON of this hobby is just the tiniest things that people like or dislike. Even buying cables that are 1000 dollars when 300 dollar cables sound exactly the same.


----------



## eee1111

I’ve also not had the chance to hear the su1 KTE version.

I wonder if it really makes a difference.


----------



## Baten

eee1111 said:


> I’ve also not had the chance to hear the su1 KTE version.
> I wonder if it really makes a difference.



You can get a ghent audio modding kit https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc99.html (i got the OFC cable version) and a 5V external PSU instead if you want to mod a SU-1 the easy way.

But there is an SU-6 nowadays, powered by internal supercapacitors. Rather than fooling around with SU-1 it really makes more sense to spend that money on SU-6. No one modded SU-6 yet (kitsune etc), because there's no point..


----------



## eee1111

What is the quality of improvement the su-6 has over the su-1?

Is it worth 600 dollars?


----------



## Alcophone (Jul 19, 2019)

eee1111 said:


> I also don’t like schiit amps either. Mjolnir 2 and ragnarock were not enjoyable. But that’s just me.



I only heard the Ragnarok 1 briefly at the California Audio Show last year, and it sounded cold and harsh to me as well (out of my Ether C Flow). I think I heard the Mjolnir 2 the year before but nothing stood out... but I had a lot less experience back then. The Lyr 3 last year sounded very sweet and enjoyable, but not as resolving as the Jotunheim, which wasn't as sweet, both with the same multibit DAC module. I still have my Jotunheim (with AK4490 DAC module) and like it, but prefer the Gustard H20, especially with the right opamps. More refined, better sound stage, more resolving. The Ragnarok 2 is practically on par when using my Ether (C) Flows balanced, but otherwise not as good to my ears.



eee1111 said:


> So maybe it’s just the gsx mk2 hates schiit. And the spring level 3 hates their amps.


Possible, I briefly heard the Spring KTE with the GS-X Mk2 and what little I heard sounded impressive. But even with the Gustard H20 I hear the differences I described, the Spring 2 KTE can't quite keep up with the music, it seems.



eee1111 said:


> This is all just my ears obviously. I’m sure when it comes to preference it is going to be different from person to person. A TON of this hobby is just the tiniest things that people like or dislike.


Definitely. It's good to know when people have different impressions, rather than assuming that one impression is the one true impression.

It would be really funny if we're hearing the same thing, but I perceive the Spring 2 KTE as sluggish, while you consider the Yggdrasil to have rough edges. But that might be the case.


----------



## eee1111

Alcophone said:


> I only heard the Ragnarok 1 briefly at the California Audio Show last year, and it sounded cold and harsh to me as well (out of my Ether C Flow). I think I heard the Mjolnir 2 the year before but nothing stood out... but I had a lot less experience back then. The Lyr 3 last year sounded very sweet and enjoyable, but not as resolving as the Jotunheim, which wasn't as sweet, both with the same multibit DAC module. I still have my Jotunheim (with AK4490 DAC module) and like it, but prefer the Gustard H20, especially with the right opamps. More refined, better sound stage, more resolving. The Ragnarok 2 is practically on par when using my Ether (C) Flows balanced, but otherwise not as good to my ears.
> 
> 
> Possible, I briefly heard the Spring KTE with the GS-X Mk2 and what little I heard sounded impressive. But even with the Gustard H20 I hear the differences I described, the Spring 2 KTE can't quite keep up with the music, it seems.
> ...



Yeah. Pretty much.

My experience with the KTE has been limited to nos pcm.

People who have used DSD say it sucks. 
People who use speakers say it is sluggish.

I’ve definitely heard these complaints.

And I do think that the forward presentation of the schiit dacs are a negative.

So there is definitely an ear thing goin on here.


----------



## aisnikkor

eee1111 said:


> Yeah. Pretty much.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



I keep seeing the negative references to DSD performance with the Spring 2, and I could not disagree more with this point.  I am using DSD upsampled to DSD512 with HQplayer, and getting the best sound I’ve ever got from my system.  Upsampled 44.1 stuff is also good, but not the same level I’m getting with DSD files.  This is comparing RB audio and DSD from the same SACDs.  DSD has a more lifelike 3D quality that is addictive on the Spring 2.  I have more than doubled the size of my SACD collection since acquiring this DAC last year (150 or so new SACDs).  Enjoying 44.1 stuff too, but DSD is where I’m getting the most enjoyment from the Spring 2.


----------



## BlueDL

I flick between DSD512 and PCM384 depending on music genre and whether listening through speakers or my headphone rig. I use HQPlayer Embedded with Roon hosted on a Sonictransporter i7, Spring Mk 1 Level 1 in NOS fed i2s from a modded Singxer SU-1.
I could imagine people who have a smooth-sounding replay chain finding DSD ‘dull’, but my rig (especially the headphone set-up) is quite revealing and plays nicely with DSD.


----------



## Currawong (Jul 19, 2019)

It's a bit different using speakers, where soundstage depth is very noticeable, especially with high-quality 2-channel recordings.   I've found most headphone combinations don't portray depth very well, so it might not be missed as much.


----------



## eee1111

aisnikkor said:


> I keep seeing the negative references to DSD performance with the Spring 2, and I could not disagree more with this point.  I am using DSD upsampled to DSD512 with HQplayer, and getting the best sound I’ve ever got from my system.  Upsampled 44.1 stuff is also good, but not the same level I’m getting with DSD files.  This is comparing RB audio and DSD from the same SACDs.  DSD has a more lifelike 3D quality that is addictive on the Spring 2.  I have more than doubled the size of my SACD collection since acquiring this DAC last year (150 or so new SACDs).  Enjoying 44.1 stuff too, but DSD is where I’m getting the most enjoyment from the Spring 2.



the gsx mk2 sounds great with the KTE. NOS i2s PCM

I have not tried DSD anything. I have read that from people. So I don't have any experience.


----------



## Sound Eq

can i ask how does holo spring compare to denfrips ares 2


----------



## TubeDriver

Has anyone directly compared original Spring DAC vs new Spring ver 2?  I am pretty happy with my original Spring LVL 1 DAC (with upgraded XU208 USB module) but wonder if the newer version 2 would be worth getting?


----------



## Baten

TubeDriver said:


> Has anyone directly compared original Spring DAC vs new Spring ver 2?  I am pretty happy with my original Spring LVL 1 DAC (with upgraded XU208 USB module) but wonder if the newer version 2 would be worth getting?


The new Spring2 has a top-tier/TOTL USB module. Super good driver, latency and super stable. Just rock solid. If you have an external good I2S device you probably don't need USB though.
Other than that it is specced slightly better and outputs a normal 2V/4V unbalanced/balanced, original spring has much hotter output which might be good/bad depending on set-up.

Overall it is probably not " worth " upgrading unless you need something of what I just mentioned. Or if you don't yet own a spring, then jumping straight to spring 2 makes sense to me.


----------



## TubeDriver

Baten said:


> The new Spring2 has a top-tier/TOTL USB module. Super good driver, latency and super stable. Just rock solid. If you have an external good I2S device you probably don't need USB though.
> Other than that it is specced slightly better and outputs a normal 2V/4V unbalanced/balanced, original spring has much hotter output which might be good/bad depending on set-up.
> 
> Overall it is probably not " worth " upgrading unless you need something of what I just mentioned. Or if you don't yet own a spring, then jumping straight to spring 2 makes sense to me.



Thanks.  I use a passive autoformer preamp with low gain amp so the higher outputs of the Spring v1 is useful to me.


----------



## BlueDL

TubeDriver said:


> Thanks.  I use a passive autoformer preamp with low gain amp so the higher outputs of the Spring v1 is useful to me.





TubeDriver said:


> Has anyone directly compared original Spring DAC vs new Spring ver 2?  I am pretty happy with my original Spring LVL 1 DAC (with upgraded XU208 USB module) but wonder if the newer version 2 would be worth getting?


I’m going to compare my Level 1 v1 Spring and Sennheiser HDVA600 amp with a Topping DX7 Pro DAC/Amp to see if an ESS 9038pro can sound as good as the Spring does in NOS mode. I got the DX7 Pro at a good price so I should be able to recoup most of the money if my existing rig beats the newcomer and continues to reign supreme.


----------



## Maxx134 (Nov 16, 2019)

BlueDL said:


> to see if an ESS 9038pro can sound as good as the Spring does in NOS mode.


While there are better and better "delta-sigma" topology dacs out there, with greater details and space...
You will find that the sound of "R2R" implementation type dacs will always be superior in certain aspects, such as a more realisticly displayed sonic image, regardless of detail level presentation .


----------



## Chik0240

One question to you guys, I noticed that in the dac manual it says the front panel only powers off the output stage and act as a mute instead of a power off, since I only use it like once 3-5 days and with a hot climate in Hong Kong I usually power off my electronics for the sake of longevity and power draw plus risk of fire, any suggestion of you guys that should I power it off completely with the rear switch or just leave it 24/7 on? does it draws a lot of power from the wall and gets pretty warm even idle? thanks


----------



## oneguy

Chik0240 said:


> One question to you guys, I noticed that in the dac manual it says the front panel only powers off the output stage and act as a mute instead of a power off, since I only use it like once 3-5 days and with a hot climate in Hong Kong I usually power off my electronics for the sake of longevity and power draw plus risk of fire, any suggestion of you guys that should I power it off completely with the rear switch or just leave it 24/7 on? does it draws a lot of power from the wall and gets pretty warm even idle? thanks



I leave mine in 24/7 in standby mode. I believe the power draw with it on is 35W and either 17W or 20W in standby.


----------



## Chik0240

oneguy said:


> I leave mine in 24/7 in standby mode. I believe the power draw with it on is 35W and either 17W or 20W in standby.


so the consumption is pretty low, but any idea on a hot summer day will the temperature rise substantially which is not good for capacitor life? I don't think it will have a temperature guarding mechanism built in to protect that


----------



## oneguy

Chik0240 said:


> so the consumption is pretty low, but any idea on a hot summer day will the temperature rise substantially which is not good for capacitor life? I don't think it will have a temperature guarding mechanism built in to protect that


I have no idea about the internal temperatures but the case temperature has never given me cause for alarm with my room temperature between 70-75F.


----------



## Chik0240

just got my new spring 2 delivered, upgrading from an audio gd NFB1 (2014), and was occasionally using an Onkyo SE-300 PCI-E (dual PCM 1798) it really amazed me how much clearer, more detailed and natural the spring 2 in NOS mode (USB in) sounds! god it's not even properly run in as the factory suggest for 300-400 hours of standby to keep thermal stability!


----------



## whirlwind

Chik0240 said:


> just got my new spring 2 delivered, upgrading from an audio gd NFB1 (2014), and was occasionally using an Onkyo SE-300 PCI-E (dual PCM 1798) it really amazed me how much clearer, more detailed and natural the spring 2 in NOS mode (USB in) sounds! god it's not even properly run in as the factory suggest for 300-400 hours of standby to keep thermal stability!




Congrats. I love these dac's and since I have had mine, I have not even thought about getting another.
Super musical and never harsh on any of my amps.


----------



## Chik0240

whirlwind said:


> Congrats. I love these dac's and since I have had mine, I have not even thought about getting another.
> Super musical and never harsh on any of my amps.


I am curious, after the years you got the dac, does the  always on resulting in audible aging effects?


----------



## whirlwind

Chik0240 said:


> I am curious, after the years you got the dac, does the  always on resulting in audible aging effects?



Certainly none that I can detect.  When not in use I put on STAND BY.


----------



## Chik0240

whirlwind said:


> Certainly none that I can detect.  When not in use I put on STAND BY.


Right, in the 2 I think the only button with similar function is the mute mode where the output stage was off?


----------



## joseph69

whirlwind said:


> I have not even thought about getting another.


This has never crossed my mind either...not once.


----------



## lukeap69 (Dec 30, 2019)

whirlwind said:


> Certainly none that I can detect.  When not in use I put on STAND BY.


I have owned this DAC a bit longer than Joe and I could not detect any deterioration is sound due to aging. If anything, it just keeps sounding better to my ears.


----------



## Roasty

Hi all

Was intending to get a metrum dac but the holo spring 2 kte has come into consideration. 

I've purchased, but not yet received, a singxer su-6 with plans to connect it via iis with my x-sabre pro dac, and possibly the holo spring. 

Question:
1) Do most people use the holo spring with hqplayer feeding it upsampled music or plain vanilla non upsampled?
2) is the difference between non upsampled and upsampled music into the holo spring night and day difference or just a little different.. 

Reason I'm asking is because I'm trying hqplayer with my x sabre pro and I'm having a hard time hearing anything much different between pcm and upsampled to dsd, other than a reduced volume which is to be expected, and maybe slightly tamed treble.


----------



## Baten (Jan 6, 2020)

Roasty said:


> Hi all
> 
> Was intending to get a metrum dac but the holo spring 2 kte has come into consideration.
> 
> ...


Matrix is an oversampling DAC hence the small difference

Holo is a NOS DAC so if you use 44/48K with NOS it will sound softer, properly upsampled it will have more impact/detail etc at the loss of this 'softness'.

It's a matter of preference but many do like this HQplayer sound


----------



## Roasty

Baten said:


> Matrix is an upsampling DAC hence the small difference
> 
> Holo is a NOS DAC so if you use 44/48K with NOS it will sound softer, properly upsampled it will have more impact/detail etc at the loss of this 'softness'.
> 
> It's a matter of preference but many do like this HQplayer sound



Thanks v much man. I think I'll give the Holo a shot.


----------



## Baten

Roasty said:


> Thanks v much man. I think I'll give the Holo a shot.


I do recommend. I really really love the holo spring sound. Admittedly I use it in NOS mode though but that might sound too 'dull' to some. I'm just a fan of NOS, not everyone is.

I recommend reading holo cyan review at headphones.com site, where there is more in-depth info and comparisons about HQplayer upsampling with Holo DACs.


----------



## Roasty

Baten said:


> I do recommend. I really really love the holo spring sound. Admittedly I use it in NOS mode though but that might sound too 'dull' to some. I'm just a fan of NOS, not everyone is.
> 
> I recommend reading holo cyan review at headphones.com site, where there is more in-depth info and comparisons about HQplayer upsampling with Holo DACs.



Cheers. Have just read the review and solidified my decision to get the Holo.


----------



## commtrd

Stupid question: what is NOS? Not over-sampled? If so, what does this imply relative to clocking cleanliness and jitter? Or am I completely off base with all this?


----------



## Baten (Jan 6, 2020)

commtrd said:


> Stupid question: what is NOS? Not over-sampled? If so, what does this imply relative to clocking cleanliness and jitter? Or am I completely off base with all this?


It means that it does not do traditional 4x/8x oversampling via digital filter. So if you feed it oversampling material it plays it back bitperfect without any further resampling.
*if* and only if you play back 44/48Khz material it will have a perfect square wave response and impulse response, but as a result will have other issues (stair-stepped response, imaging in ultrasonics, ...)
practically, it will roll off all high frequencies by some 3dB (again, only when using low sample rate), the rest of the side effects are arguably inaudible

some real-world examples here: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/02/measurements-muse-mini-tda1543x4-nos.html

there's a fan base around NOS DACs while looking at them objectively, they do a lot of things "wrong" music-science wise unless you do the upsampling with software
when using low sampling rates your ears act as a filter and filter out what they do "wrong". so they still sound good. very good even, imo


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Any one planning to get the Holo May Dual Mono DAC? Its already available at wildism.


----------



## Roasty

Thanks for the heads up. I contacted them and they have it in stock (holo may). 

They also have this spring level 2 wildism edition, which the seller mentions has more and better upgrades than the KTE version. Has anyone here tried the Wildism spring 2?


----------



## Baten

Roasty said:


> They also have this spring level 2 wildism edition, which the seller mentions has more and better upgrades than the KTE version. Has anyone here tried the Wildism spring 2?



The spring 2 I owned was the Wildism edition. loved it to bits. it has all capacitors upgraded to audio note ones at very high capacitor values.

The Spring May will also come in a Level 2 version with customized Holo capacitors though, which will be >= spring 2 KTE/Wildism. But also a *lot* more pricy.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Baten said:


> The spring 2 I owned was the Wildism edition. loved it to bits. it has all capacitors upgraded to audio note ones at very high capacitor values.
> 
> The Spring May will also come in a Level 2 version with customized Holo capacitors though, which will be >= spring 2 KTE/Wildism. But also a *lot* more pricy.



Me too has the wild extreme edition of the spring 2. I have posted pics of my exact unit and Baten also few pages back. Try comparing it to the pics or lack thereof the lvl3 kitsune version.


----------



## Roasty

Have just pulled the trigger and sent payment for the Wildism edition. Can't wait!


----------



## BlueDL

Maxx134 said:


> While there are better and better "delta-sigma" topology dacs out there, with greater details and space...
> You will find that the sound of "R2R" implementation type dacs will always be superior in certain aspects, such as a more realisticly displayed sonic image, regardless of detail level presentation .


You were right. The DX7 Pro may measure well, but it was lacking considerably in warmth and musicality. Sold it already and the Spring continues to reign supreme. I liked the look of the new May.......then I saw the price. Ouch!


----------



## Roasty

Notified from Wildism that my spring2 has just completed modding and is undergoing qc before getting sent out to me.

He suggests 3 to 400 hrs of breaking in and to leave the dac on continuously to keep it warm.

Question on the break in process..
If I have a singxer su-6, can I connect it to my current dac and the holo spring at the same time? Meaning I continue my listening with my current dac to amp, and have music running concurrently into the holo spring (without an output connection). Will this still constitute as breaking it in or if needs to be connected to an output/amp?

Also, will music quality degrade having two connections to the singxer simultaneously?


----------



## Chik0240

Roasty said:


> Notified from Wildism that my spring2 has just completed modding and is undergoing qc before getting sent out to me.
> 
> He suggests 3 to 400 hrs of breaking in and to leave the dac on continuously to keep it warm.
> 
> ...


From a level2 owner I think the holo spring 2 is enjoyable enough before so call running in, just enjoy the nos sound


----------



## Baten

Roasty said:


> Question on the break in process..
> If I have a singxer su-6, can I connect it to my current dac and the holo spring at the same time? Meaning I continue my listening with my current dac to amp, and have music running concurrently into the holo spring (without an output connection). Will this still constitute as breaking it in or if needs to be connected to an output/amp?
> 
> Also, will music quality degrade having two connections to the singxer simultaneously?



Yes the singxer can output to multiple devices at once, no problem with that whatsoever.


----------



## Roasty

Received the spring 2 a few weeks back. But only managed to get it out of the box last night. 

I installed the drivers from the kitsune website. 

Some questions.. 
1) Do I also have to upgrade the usb firmware? 
2) if yes to 1, which USB firmware version do I use? Mine is the Wildism Edition spring 2.
3) I upsample in hqplayer to dsd512 and the spring 2 plays it just fine. But if I try to upsample to dsd1024, no playback happens. Can I ask what dsd1024 settings you guys are using? I think it may be my pc that's the bottleneck with not enough processing power.. (?)


----------



## elan120

Roasty said:


> Received the spring 2 a few weeks back. But only managed to get it out of the box last night.
> 
> I installed the drivers from the kitsune website.
> 
> ...


About (3)...Are you connecting it directly or through SU-6?


----------



## Roasty

elan120 said:


> About (3)...Are you connecting it directly or through SU-6?



At present, yes, it is going thru singxer su-6 and to holo using iis. 

In the future I may move the Holo to my office and use the USB port.


----------



## elan120

Roasty said:


> At present, yes, it is going thru singxer su-6 and to holo using iis.
> 
> In the future I may move the Holo to my office and use the USB port.




Based on the specification, SU-6 is the bottleneck, it can only go up to DSD512.

*Technical indicators:*
_Sample rate supported by each output interface:
PCM: 44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz,176.4KHz, 192KHz, 352.8KHz, 384KHz

DSD: 2.8 MHz (DSD64) - DoP, native
5.6 MHz (DSD128) - DoP, native
11.2 MHz (DSD256) - DoP, native
22.5 MHz (DSD512) - native

Bit width: up to 32 bit over I2S output
Up to 24 bit over S/PDI, AES/EBU_


----------



## Roasty

elan120 said:


> Based on the specification, SU-6 is the bottleneck, it can only go up to DSD512.
> 
> *Technical indicators:*
> _Sample rate supported by each output interface:
> ...



Oh man I totally missed that. Thanks for pointing that out!!


----------



## elan120

Roasty said:


> Oh man I totally missed that. Thanks for pointing that out!!


You may still have issue upsample to DSD1024 by connecting it to USB port if your computer is not powerful enough, but at least you will hear the dropouts rather than silent.


----------



## Roasty

elan120 said:


> You may still have issue upsample to DSD1024 by connecting it to USB port if your computer is not powerful enough, but at least you will hear the dropouts rather than silent.




OK so I tried using PC to Holo 2 directly via USB cable. 

For some reason it doesn't convert to DSD, but only to pcm 352.8 which plays back fine on the Holo. 

These are the settings.. Any idea what's wrong?


----------



## Roasty

OK I figured it out.. 
For some reason I need to change hqplayer settings, then exit hqplayer, then restart it, before playback is successful..


----------



## elan120

Roasty said:


> For some reason it doesn't convert to DSD, but only to pcm 352.8 which plays back fine on the Holo.


Can you try removing Adaptive output rate and change the Bit rate to 44.1K x 512, and see if that work?



Roasty said:


> For some reason I need to change hqplayer settings, then exit hqplayer, then restart it, before playback is successful..


Great...but you should be able to just save the setting by clicking "OK" icon without exit HQP.  Anyway, if that works, enjoy the new DAC.


----------



## Roasty

elan120 said:


> Can you try removing Adaptive output rate and change the Bit rate to 44.1K x 512, and see if that work?
> 
> 
> Great...but you should be able to just save the setting by clicking "OK" icon without exit HQP.  Anyway, if that works, enjoy the new DAC.



Thank you for all the help! 

Im going to stop listening for a bit and just leave the unit on to warm up for some time. Looking forward to the next round of music..!


----------



## elan120

Roasty said:


> Im going to stop listening for a bit and just leave the unit on to warm up for some time. Looking forward to the next round of music..!


Sounds like a good plan...meanwhile, keep the music file running without turning on the amp while you are doing the warm up.  A nice way to get the DAC go through the burn-in process.


----------



## pichu

Roasty said:


> OK I figured it out..
> For some reason I need to change hqplayer settings, then exit hqplayer, then restart it, before playback is successful..



Change 'Default Output Mode' to 'SDM' , and by chance you have an NVIDIA graphics card, turn on CUDA core offload.

Playing DSD 1024 will require a 10 core + top of the line Ryzen/threadripper or a i9 9900k 

Cheers,

Jonathan


----------



## Roasty

pichu said:


> Change 'Default Output Mode' to 'SDM' , and by chance you have an NVIDIA graphics card, turn on CUDA core offload.
> 
> Playing DSD 1024 will require a 10 core + top of the line Ryzen/threadripper or a i9 9900k
> 
> ...



Thanks man.
I managed to get 1024 to play but stutters a lot. PC ran out of steam.. Looks like I will have to be content at 512.

Fresh out of box the spring 2 sounds quite flat and constrained.. Lacking life and sparkle. Looking forward to hearing how it is after some running in!


----------



## pichu

Roasty said:


> Thanks man.
> I managed to get 1024 to play but stutters a lot. PC ran out of steam... Looks like I will have to be content at 512.
> 
> Fresh out of the box the spring 2 sounds quite flat and constrained. Lacking life and sparkle. Looking forward to hearing how it is after some running in!



closed-form 16m, dsd 512 with the dsd7 512fs sounds good to me. I know people favor ext-2 for DSD 512 also, but choose what sounds best to you!

That sucks to hear that, I'm currently torn between Spring 2 Kitsune edition LVL 3, or the matrix audio x sabre pro. Unable to hear either of them so tryna read and hear as many reviews of both as I can before I make the pull.

Cheers,

Jonathan


----------



## Roasty

pichu said:


> closed-form 16m, dsd 512 with the dsd7 512fs sounds good to me. I know people favor ext-2 for DSD 512 also, but choose what sounds best to you!
> 
> That sucks to hear that, I'm currently torn between Spring 2 Kitsune edition LVL 3, or the matrix audio x sabre pro. Unable to hear either of them so tryna read and hear as many reviews of both as I can before I make the pull.
> 
> ...



I have the matrix audio MQA xsabre Pro. It is a very good dac and I really like it a lot!

The guy I bought the Holo Spring 2 wild edition from suggests a 3 to 400 hrs break in period before it reaches its potential. So I'm way far from that!


----------



## elan120

Roasty said:


> I managed to get 1024 to play but stutters a lot. PC ran out of steam.. Looks like I will have to be content at 512.


I ran DSD512 non-2s filters for a long time until the new EC modulators came out.  My new preference is DSD256 with ASDM7EC.  Give it a try, hopefully your computer will do it without stutters.


----------



## pichu

elan120 said:


> I ran DSD512 non-2s filters for a long time until the new EC modulators came out.  My new preference is DSD256 with ASDM7EC.  Give it a try, hopefully your computer will do it without stutters.


How are you getting the EC filter at DSD256 without stutter? I got a i9 9900k overclocked to 4.8gHz with a 2070 Super and 32gb DDR4 at 3200mhz. I keep stuttering bad. Highest I can go is ASDM7EC , DSD 128


----------



## elan120

pichu said:


> How are you getting the EC filter at DSD256 without stutter? I got a i9 9900k overclocked to 4.8gHz with a 2070 Super and 32gb DDR4 at 3200mhz. I keep stuttering bad. Highest I can go is ASDM7EC , DSD 128


With i9-9900K you should be able to upsample to EC7/DSD256 with no issue, and I have seen many do it with i9700K.  Have you try setting "Multicore" to "Auto"?  Another thing to check is using the Intel's Turbo Boost.  In the BIOS, make sure to set turbo to "on".  With i9-9900K, I see users running EC7/DSD256x48 at 4.7GHz, so your 4.8GHz is more than enough.  Meanwhile, have you try different filter to make sure the stuttering isn't coming from the heavier filters? 

In my case, I have the i9900KS, no graphic card, used to be 8GB and now 16GB 2666 RAM, with everything set to Auto in BIOS, running AL/HQPe.  CPU temp is around 60C, so no issue with thermal throttling.


----------



## 3ggerhappy (Feb 19, 2020)

Also try PCM 16x upsampling(705.6/768) then poly-sinc-long-lp using the new LNS15 dither. Excellent clean and 3d sounding. DSD upsampling has less dynamics IME. Sinc-M is also good with the sound having more body.


----------



## pichu

elan120 said:


> With i9-9900K you should be able to upsample to EC7/DSD256 with no issue, and I have seen many do it with i9700K.  Have you try setting "Multicore" to "Auto"?  Another thing to check is using the Intel's Turbo Boost.  In the BIOS, make sure to set turbo to "on".  With i9-9900K, I see users running EC7/DSD256x48 at 4.7GHz, so your 4.8GHz is more than enough.  Meanwhile, have you try different filter to make sure the stuttering isn't coming from the heavier filters?
> 
> In my case, I have the i9900KS, no graphic card, used to be 8GB and now 16GB 2666 RAM, with everything set to Auto in BIOS, running AL/HQPe.  CPU temp is around 60C, so no issue with thermal throttling.



Tbh no I haven’t tried other filters other than ext2 and closed form 16m as they are my favorite. I’ll have to try some others today once I get off work. Thank you!


----------



## pichu

3ggerhappy said:


> Also try PCM 16x upsampling(705.6/768) then poly-sinc-long-lp using the new LNS15 dither. Excellent clean and 3d sounding. DSD upsampling has less dynamics IME. Sinc-M is also good with the sound having more body.



I’ll have to try out the new PCM dither thank you!


----------



## elan120

3ggerhappy said:


> Also try PCM 16x upsampling(705.6/768) then poly-sinc-long-lp using the new LNS15 dither. Excellent clean and 3d sounding. DSD upsampling has less dynamics IME. Sinc-M is also good with the sound having more body.



+1


----------



## pichu

elan120 said:


> With i9-9900K you should be able to upsample to EC7/DSD256 with no issue, and I have seen many do it with i9700K.  Have you try setting "Multicore" to "Auto"?  Another thing to check is using the Intel's Turbo Boost.  In the BIOS, make sure to set turbo to "on".  With i9-9900K, I see users running EC7/DSD256x48 at 4.7GHz, so your 4.8GHz is more than enough.  Meanwhile, have you try different filter to make sure the stuttering isn't coming from the heavier filters?
> 
> In my case, I have the i9900KS, no graphic card, used to be 8GB and now 16GB 2666 RAM, with everything set to Auto in BIOS, running AL/HQPe.  CPU temp is around 60C, so no issue with thermal throttling.



Weird! So with "Multicore" checked i couldnt run the new EC7 dither but when on "Auto" it works fine on dsd256! Thanks for the suggestion


----------



## elan120

pichu said:


> Weird! So with "Multicore" checked i couldnt run the new EC7 dither but when on "Auto" it works fine on dsd256! Thanks for the suggestion


Glad all worked out.  Enjoy.  In my system, I find EC7/DSD256 a step up from DSD128, now you can compare as well.


----------



## Roasty

3ggerhappy said:


> Also try PCM 16x upsampling(705.6/768) then poly-sinc-long-lp using the new LNS15 dither. Excellent clean and 3d sounding. DSD upsampling has less dynamics IME. Sinc-M is also good with the sound having more body.



so when i got my singxer su-6 and new dacs, all i could think about was upsampling to DSD..

i just tried PCM upsampling to sinc M and LNS15 and you are right.. it does sound more dynamic than DSD. thanks for the recommendation!  i feel like i've been missing out on a lot haha at present, i'm limited to 352.8k due to the Singxer, but i will try to just go direct from PC to dac and try out 705.6/768 and see how it goes. 

thanks man!


----------



## pichu

Roasty said:


> so when i got my singxer su-6 and new dacs, all i could think about was upsampling to DSD..
> 
> i just tried PCM upsampling to sinc M and LNS15 and you are right.. it does sound more dynamic than DSD. thanks for the recommendation!  i feel like i've been missing out on a lot haha at present, i'm limited to 352.8k due to the Singxer, but i will try to just go direct from PC to dac and try out 705.6/768 and see how it goes.
> 
> thanks man!



Why not sell SU-6 and buy the brand new SU-2. supports crazy high pcm and dsd rates


----------



## Roasty

pichu said:


> Why not sell SU-6 and buy the brand new SU-2. supports crazy high pcm and dsd rates



that is a good question.. 
read somewhere that the su-6 would sound better, and had a better power supply. anyways, no biggie. i just recently got the su-6 so i will probably keep it around for a while. and i think i have another bottle neck for higher sample rates to consider, which is my PC.

by the way, after a day or so of running music through the Holo, it is a lot more enjoyable now! 

has anyone here ordered the new Holo Audio May dac?


----------



## astrostar59

What is the advantage of converting PCM to higher rate DSD? Conversion incurs losses in the format change. Does the Holo not have a digital filter i.e. bitperfect no upsampling? If yes, then it may be useless to do DSD. If it has a filter, then may help avoiding the pitfalls of that (filter).


----------



## zorilon (May 31, 2020)

Hi to everyone!
I am a two months owner of this beautiful DAC.
I listen mostly on Susvara and Niimbus US4 amp and it is the first combo that gives me horizontal and vertical imaging, in NOS mode. I don’t like to up sample this DAC. It has the most natural tone and correct placement of instruments in simple NOS mode. And this is the first DAC I own that really has sub bass! (I had Chord Dave, Chord Hugo TT 1,2, Schiit Yggdrasil 1,2)

Even though I use only the USB input at the moment, at first it was enough.
After I had for a couple of days an Intona, I saw that more was possible and I start trying products from Ifi Audio. All of this gadgets alter the natural tone but they make me realize something.

The biggest improvement I made (keeping the natural tone) was when I use the iFi AUDIO Gemini3.0 Dual-Head USB cable to feed music data directly from my MacBook Pro with the data side, and feeding the power for the Holo Spring USB with the power side straight from the Ifi Micro USB 3.0. The clean power that comes to the USB module of the DAC makes a significant difference. The sound is perfect, stereo imaging is perfect, with distinctive layers and a out of your head perseption.

It is a relatively cheap upgrade if you can find a used Ifi Gemini cable (don’t know other companies that produce this kind of cable) and a clean power USB hub like Ifi Nano USB 3.0. The regenerator and all the other nonsense things don’t really work but the clean power that no computer or laptop can provide really makes the difference!


----------



## LevPush

Hi guys, has anyone tried both this and Soekris 1541? How are they different and how big an improvement this has to the 1541? Thanks.


----------



## holospringfan

Hi all. Can someone who has holo May compare how much better it is than holo spring 2?


----------



## CedricFromParis

Hi to all Head-Fiers on this thread !

Does anyone have had the very very rare version of this beautiful DAC, the *Holo Spring 2 "Wild Edition Extreme"* modded by *Wildism Audio* in Hong Kong ?
(_https://www.wildismaudio.com/blogs/news/2019-holo-audio-r2r-spring2-wild-edition-extreme_)
Because I hesitate between this very nice modding VS the very well known "Kitsuné Tuned Edition", which is no longer has nothing to prove...

I'm not an Audio engineer or any technical expert of the specific R2R DAC capabilities, 
but, after some research, I have the strange feeling that *the Holo Spring 2 "Wild Edition Extreme" *is maybe THE ultimate version of the Spring 2 !?!
It does really seems to be the very best High End version currently available of this DAC, even better than the Kitsuné mod, to reach the best audiophile results as possible 
with the Holo Audio Spring II...

Maybe I'm completely wrong ?

What do you think about it ?

Thanks a lot for your replies...


----------



## Roasty

CedricFromParis said:


> Hi to all Head-Fiers on this thread !
> 
> Does anyone have had the very very rare version of this beautiful DAC, the *Holo Spring 2 "Wild Edition Extreme"* modded by *Wildism Audio* in Hong Kong ?
> (_https://www.wildismaudio.com/blogs/news/2019-holo-audio-r2r-spring2-wild-edition-extreme_)
> ...



I went with the Wild Edition. No regrets. Of course, disclaimer is I've not listened to the kitsune version..


----------



## CedricFromParis

Roasty said:


> I went with the Wild Edition. No regrets. Of course, disclaimer is I've not listened to the kitsune version..



How much did it cost to you and when did you buy it ?

Do you listen DSD files, Hi-Res files and /or CD files ?


----------



## Roasty

CedricFromParis said:


> How much did it cost to you and when did you buy it ?
> 
> Do you listen DSD files, Hi-Res files and /or CD files ?



I think I paid around sgd4k. 
Roon+tidal upsampled to Dsd and pcm in hqplayer and sent to dac running NOS mode.


----------



## Baten

CedricFromParis said:


> Hi to all Head-Fiers on this thread !
> 
> Does anyone have had the very very rare version of this beautiful DAC, the *Holo Spring 2 "Wild Edition Extreme"* modded by *Wildism Audio* in Hong Kong ?
> (_https://www.wildismaudio.com/blogs/news/2019-holo-audio-r2r-spring2-wild-edition-extreme_)
> ...


I've ordered the spring 2 wildism to Europe. you can contact wildism so you could order it from them.


----------



## digitaldufferme

Roasty said:


> I think I paid around sgd4k.
> Roon+tidal upsampled to Dsd and pcm in hqplayer and sent to dac running NOS mode.


Hi did you have to pay GST when it was delivered to you? Can you remember how much? I’m thinking of getting this as a 60th birthday present to myself and trying to figure out how much it will cost me in total.


----------



## 3ggerhappy (Apr 17, 2020)

Wildism accepts payment via paypal and its in HKD, I think I paid 24k HKD. Thats without shipping, I didn't have shipping as I visit HK for a vacation that time and the owner delivered it free to my hotel. Wildism has a FB page and the owner was very responsive you could ask there also. He will even explain how its parts are more superior than kitsune.


----------



## whirlwind

zorilon said:


> Hi to everyone!
> I am a two months owner of this beautiful DAC.
> I listen mostly on Susvara and Niimbus US4 amp and it is the first combo that gives me horizontal and vertical imaging, in NOS mode. I don’t like to up sample this DAC. It has the most natural tone and correct placement of instruments in simple NOS mode. And this is the first DAC I own that really has sub bass! (I had Chord Dave, Chord Hugo TT 1,2, Schiit Yggdrasil 1,2)
> 
> ...



I agree, I set this dac to NOS and enjoy the music.     
It is a wonderful piece of gear.


----------



## Roasty

digitaldufferme said:


> Hi did you have to pay GST when it was delivered to you? Can you remember how much? I’m thinking of getting this as a 60th birthday present to myself and trying to figure out how much it will cost me in total.



I can't remember if I did. It was a short while ago but my memory fails me.

What dac are you using at present?


----------



## digitaldufferme

3ggerhappy said:


> Wildism accepts payment via paypal and its in HKD, I think I paid 24k HKD. Thats without shipping, I didn't have shipping as I visit HK for a vacation that time and the owner delivered it free to my hotel.


Oh that’s great! How long ago was that? Travel is just a bit difficult these days


Baten said:


> I've ordered the spring 2 wildism to Europe. you can contact wildism so you could order it from them.


May I ask your thinking behind ordering the Wildism vs the KTE? Have you ordered the Extreme?


----------



## digitaldufferme

Roasty said:


> I can't remember if I did. It was a short while ago but my memory fails me.
> 
> What dac are you using at present?


I understand. I’m using a very low cost but great value for money Chifi  Dac the SMSL M8A. I was very pleasantly satisfied with the sound which is clear and incisive but always fatigueing after a few hours. I’ve lived with this for a few years but now want to treat myself for my 60th. I’ve never heard a NOS dac so am being very cautious. Unsure also between the Extreme from Wildism and the Kitsune L3.


----------



## Roasty

digitaldufferme said:


> I understand. I’m using a very low cost but great value for money Chifi  Dac the SMSL M8A. I was very pleasantly satisfied with the sound which is clear and incisive but always fatigueing after a few hours. I’ve lived with this for a few years but now want to treat myself for my 60th. I’ve never heard a NOS dac so am being very cautious. Unsure also between the Extreme from Wildism and the Kitsune L3.



Some people prefer completely non upsampled music. I have tried sending both non upsampled and upsampled to the Holo (in NOS mode) and I prefer it with upsampled music. I also prefer the Holo in NOS mode. I think the OS modes take some getting used to.

For the price, I think kitsune l3 and wild edition are similar, but you get more upgrades with the wild. The guy from Wildism was very helpful and responsive, and that really helped me make my decision too.


----------



## Baten

digitaldufferme said:


> Oh that’s great! How long ago was that? Travel is just a bit difficult these days
> 
> May I ask your thinking behind ordering the Wildism vs the KTE? Have you ordered the Extreme?


Wildism extreme, yes. It has more mods than KTE


----------



## digitaldufferme

Baten said:


> Wildism extreme, yes. It has more mods than KTE


What is your chain feeding the Extreme? I’m currently using the standard beginner’s ROON setup of core on a pc feeding the dac via USB controlled by iPad. If I get the Wildism Extreme will I need to get other boxes to do Spif/AES etc.? I am 100% a 2 channel speaker listener. No headphone use at all.


----------



## Roasty

digitaldufferme said:


> What is your chain feeding the Extreme? I’m currently using the standard beginner’s ROON setup of core on a pc feeding the dac via USB controlled by iPad. If I get the Wildism Extreme will I need to get other boxes to do Spif/AES etc.? I am 100% a 2 channel speaker listener. No headphone use at all.



Use the USB out from your pc. I'm sure the Holo will do just fine with USB. If you feel the need to splurge, there is always the Curious and Curious Evolved USB cable ha ha ha!


----------



## digitaldufferme

Roasty said:


> Some people prefer completely non upsampled music. I have tried sending both non upsampled and upsampled to the Holo (in NOS mode) and I prefer it with upsampled music. I also prefer the Holo in NOS mode. I think the OS modes take some getting used to.
> 
> For the price, I think kitsune l3 and wild edition are similar, but you get more upgrades with the wild. The guy from Wildism was very helpful and responsive, and that really helped me make my decision too.


Yes I was texting with him last night and he seems very honest and upfront. Seems more techie than salesy. My experience with DACs is very limited that’s why I’m asking so many questions about NOS. I get the idea that it’s for a niche audience so I’m hesitating.


----------



## Baten

digitaldufferme said:


> What is your chain feeding the Extreme? I’m currently using the standard beginner’s ROON setup of core on a pc feeding the dac via USB controlled by iPad. If I get the Wildism Extreme will I need to get other boxes to do Spif/AES etc.? I am 100% a 2 channel speaker listener. No headphone use at all.


I just used USB and NOS setting


----------



## 3ggerhappy (Apr 18, 2020)

digitaldufferme said:


> Oh that’s great! How long ago was that? Travel is just a bit difficult these days
> 
> May I ask your thinking behind ordering the Wildism vs the KTE? Have you ordered the Extreme?




Purchased mine March last year, here is the spec of the mod from our convo if you havent  asked already. Just based on the spec of the mod, also the kitsune one does not publish any info about their mod. So ive gone for the extreme.


----------



## Baten

3ggerhappy said:


> Purchased mine March last year, here is the spec of the mod from our convo if you havent  asked already.


yep was the same for me, the discount price IIRC was because of holo spring 2 release, so maybe discount is no longer applicable


----------



## hikaru12

Hi guys,

I’m considering getting the Level 2 Spring 2 instead of the KTE. How’s on the detail on that compared to the KTE? Is the KTE differences worth the extra $700? That’s a fair chunk of change I’d say so if the performance is subtle I’d rather spend that money improving other parts of my system.


----------



## LevPush

hikaru12 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I’m considering getting the Level 2 Spring 2 instead of the KTE. How’s on the detail on that compared to the KTE? Is the KTE differences worth the extra $700? That’s a fair chunk of change I’d say so if the performance is subtle I’d rather spend that money improving other parts of my system.


From another forum ppl are saying not that difference(2%-3%) from L1 to L3.


----------



## hikaru12

LevPush said:


> From another forum ppl are saying not that difference(2%-3%) from L1 to L3.



Wow is that for the Spring 1 or 2?! If that’s all then that’s a huge amount of savings especially since the Spring 2 seems to have a better USB implementation.


----------



## LevPush

hikaru12 said:


> Wow is that for the Spring 1 or 2?! If that’s all then that’s a huge amount of savings especially since the Spring 2 seems to have a better USB implementation.


I think that’s for Spring 1, but I can’t imagine gap between levels for Spring 2 would be hugely difference either.


----------



## pichu

Does anyone have an explanation of the different settings on the DAC? in regard to NOS, OS, OS PCM, DSD, etc. Like if I have it set to NOS and then oversample in Roon, what is happening exactly with the NOS setting in the DAC? And if i switch it to OS mode, but im oversampling through ROON, what is happening?


----------



## LevPush

pichu said:


> Does anyone have an explanation of the different settings on the DAC? in regard to NOS, OS, OS PCM, DSD, etc. Like if I have it set to NOS and then oversample in Roon, what is happening exactly with the NOS setting in the DAC? And if i switch it to OS mode, but im oversampling through ROON, what is happening?


Not sure if it is correct. But for OS dac, if you feed it 44.1khz signal, it will internally oversample the signal and apply filters with it. For NOS dac, it does not oversample internally. For upsampling the music through Roon, I think it does not provide too much benefit for a OS dac, because dac will oversample the signal anyway. But my guessing for NOS, on the other hand, is that it will make an impact, at least theoretically, because you basically help the dac oversample beforehand, from 44.1khz to say, 192khz.


----------



## Roasty

pichu said:


> Does anyone have an explanation of the different settings on the DAC? in regard to NOS, OS, OS PCM, DSD, etc. Like if I have it set to NOS and then oversample in Roon, what is happening exactly with the NOS setting in the DAC? And if i switch it to OS mode, but im oversampling through ROON, what is happening?



This is cut and paste from kitsune holo spring 2 page. 

1: NOS mode: has no digital oversampling, the raw data is directly converted to analog.  Because digital oversampling will produce time-domain distortions, such as ringing, NOS avoids these problems. Generally NOS mode’s other performance indicators have a significant impact, but the Spring 2 is designed to allow top performance while in NOS mode.

2: OS mode: PCM is over sampled to PCM at a higher frequency, DSD is over sampled to DSD at a higher frequency, and then digital is converted to analog.

3: OS PCM mode: in either PCM or DSD the data will be oversampled to PCM and then digital is converted to analog.

4: OS DSD mode: in either PCM or DSD the data will be oversampled to DSD and then digital is converted to analog.


----------



## LevPush

Happy to discuss more on the mathematical and theoretical term, although I do not major in this but am from a math background and have some knowledge in signal processing topic.


----------



## pichu (May 1, 2020)

Hey all! I know many of you are using a Singxer product fed with hdmi to the spring 2. For those of you who are doing that and using HQPlayer, I have a question!

Whenever I set HQPlayer to output PCM, I get an insanely distorted sound and screeching and shrilling noise from my music played through ROON. I tried HQplayer to output SDM ( DSD ) , I get good sound. I also tried no hqplayer and just direct through ROON and i have no problem. This is also lossless and oversampling done through Roon. No issue. I also tried the different modes on the DAC, (NOS, OS, OS PCM, OS DSD), and had no problems. Theres ONLY a problem with distorted screeching sound when I am using HQPlayer in PCM mode. Any help would be appreciated <3 ***EDIT: More testing, ive noticed it only distorts at sample rates higher than 384kHz. Anything below that is fine.


----------



## Roasty

What singxer are u using? I'm using su-6 and its max pcm output is at 384.


----------



## pichu

Roasty said:


> What singxer are u using? I'm using su-6 and its max pcm output is at 384.



hey im using the Su-2 KTE. Its the newest one. Says in i2s it supports all sampling rates ( 768kHz, DSD 1024) Not sure what to do about the switches on the bottom. On the su6 do you have them setup a certain way?


----------



## Roasty

pichu said:


> hey im using the Su-2 KTE. Its the newest one. Says in i2s it supports all sampling rates ( 768kHz, DSD 1024) Not sure what to do about the switches on the bottom. On the su6 do you have them setup a certain way?



Yes there should be a manual with your unit that shows what switches to flick. Not sure if that's the problem though. 

On my setup, I get a severe static hiss if I playback dsd using a "wrong" USB port on my nuc. But if I swap to another port, it plays normally. Have u tried another USB out?


----------



## digitaldufferme

pichu said:


> hey im using the Su-2 KTE. Its the newest one. Says in i2s it supports all sampling rates ( 768kHz, DSD 1024) Not sure what to do about the switches on the bottom. On the su6 do you have them setup a certain way?


As it's a KTE model, why not ask Kitsune themselves since they also supply the the Spring2, you will get the best and tested solution I believe. Hope it works out for you. Be interested to know, when you've solved this little problem whether you actually notice any real sound difference with the SU2 or just going direct USB which others say works just fine and simplifies the signal chain.


----------



## pichu

digitaldufferme said:


> As it's a KTE model, why not ask Kitsune themselves since they also supply the the Spring2, you will get the best and tested solution I believe. Hope it works out for you. Be interested to know, when you've solved this little problem whether you actually notice any real sound difference with the SU2 or just going direct USB which others say works just fine and simplifies the signal chain.



Thank you! I sent Tim an email to see what he has to say about it. Its frustrating when things dont work how they're supposed to but hopefully I can get it figured out. I bought it specifically so i could do 768 kHz through hqplayer and i2s.


----------



## digitaldufferme

pichu said:


> Thank you! I sent Tim an email to see what he has to say about it. Its frustrating when things dont work how they're supposed to but hopefully I can get it figured out. I bought it specifically so i could do 768 kHz through hqplayer and i2s.


not to worry


pichu said:


> Thank you! I sent Tim an email to see what he has to say about it. Its frustrating when things dont work how they're supposed to but hopefully I can get it figured out. I bought it specifically so i could do 768 kHz through hqplayer and i2s.


I guess the issue is simply because of the flexibility of the SU-2 and am guessing you just need to flip the right switches. While waiting for Tim to respond, just enjoy the very nice DAC you have and soak up your favourite tunes! Not sure but it's a holiday weekend in some countries so the response might be a bit delayed. Have fun mate.


----------



## Roasty

Just out of curiosity, I tried NUC USB to holo spring 2, playing via hqplayer and upsampling to 1.536M, sinc M LNS15. 

The clarity and air up top is improved, highs and vocals are more crisp, but there is slightly reduced bass and mid bass, with lack of weight and impact. 

I prefer NUC to singxer su-6 and iis to Holo, pcm 384. Overall presentation sounds more balanced and enjoyable.


----------



## pichu

Roasty said:


> Just out of curiosity, I tried NUC USB to holo spring 2, playing via hqplayer and upsampling to 1.536M, sinc M LNS15.
> 
> The clarity and air up top is improved, highs and vocals are more crisp, but there is slightly reduced bass and mid bass, with lack of weight and impact.
> 
> I prefer NUC to singxer su-6 and iis to Holo, pcm 384. Overall presentation sounds more balanced and enjoyable.



Whats your computer specs? I can only get 768kHz with i9 9900k and 2060 super on those settings


----------



## Roasty

pichu said:


> Whats your computer specs? I can only get 768kHz with i9 9900k and 2060 super on those settings



That is odd. Mine runs fine on just a nuc8i7beh with onboard graphics. I was under the impression pcm was not cpu intensive. DSD on the other hand.. My nuc in fanless case overheats even at dsd256. For dsd upsampling I use a higher power pc in another room and run NAA on the nuc in listening room.


----------



## Roasty




----------



## 3ggerhappy

@pichu what OS are you using running HQPlayer?, are you running HQP Embedded?


----------



## Roasty

3ggerhappy said:


> @pichu what OS are you using running HQPlayer?, are you running HQP Embedded?



Windows 10, non embedded hqplayer


----------



## pichu

Roasty said:


> Windows 10, non embedded hqplayer



So, with some more troubleshooting with Jussi, turns out the Ultrarendu is limiting my ability to do anything higher than dsd512 and 768kHz. So hooked the Spring 2 directly to my PC and still had no luck! 

So, he had me put it into a usb 3.0 port and it worked. Guess it just needed some more transfer speed to keep up with the higher PCM and DSD rates.

Then I thought I could get the Singxer SU-2 to work. Installed and uninstalled all of the Singxer USB Drivers, but none of them worked. Whatever the reason It wont do more than 384 kHz PCM through the Singxer SU-2.

I guess i can try Singxer direct customer support but Tim and Jussi arent sure on this one. Jussi just reccomended to ditch it because the Spring 2 USB's implementation is good and you wont tell a difference between it and i2s.


----------



## Roasty

Anyone here using Holo Audio May?


----------



## 3ggerhappy (May 9, 2020)

For those using embedded anyone tried the "Sinc-S" filter? please share some impressions. Current hardware can only do 128 dsdEC filter.  Noticed thick sound, smaller stage but excellent depth layering. Will try with PCM upsampling now.


----------



## hikaru12

Has anyone compared the Spring 2 to the Gumby? Which one would you say is more detailed? My guess is that the Spring has the best tonality but because Gumby still oversamples it still wins on the detail front. I’m hoping I’m wrong as I’d love to see if I should spring for the Spring (haha pun) or just save up for the May.


----------



## ToonMechaMan

hikaru12 said:


> Has anyone compared the Spring 2 to the Gumby? Which one would you say is more detailed? My guess is that the Spring has the best tonality but because Gumby still oversamples it still wins on the detail front. I’m hoping I’m wrong as I’d love to see if I should spring for the Spring (haha pun) or just save up for the May.


It's close but the Spring still bests the Gumby A2 on the detail front as well.


----------



## hikaru12

ToonMechaMan said:


> It's close but the Spring still bests the Gumby A2 on the detail front as well.



Is this for the Spring 2 Level 1/2 or Kitsune or does it not matter?


----------



## ToonMechaMan

hikaru12 said:


> Is this for the Spring 2 Level 1/2 or Kitsune or does it not matter?


This is for the KTE edition. Haven't tried the lvl 1 or 2 versions.


----------



## hikaru12

ToonMechaMan said:


> This is for the KTE edition. Haven't tried the lvl 1 or 2 versions.



From some initial impressions it sounds like the Level 1 is similar enough to the 3 that you could get by with cheaper. I honestly didn’t realize what a value the Gumby is then in that regard. Too bad I didn’t care for it that much.


----------



## Blkspn

Hello 

I currently use a Gustard U12 to connect via I2S to the holo spring 1 and I would like to upgrade the U12 with something better :

Audio GD HI20 ?
New denafrips Iris ?

Any advice ? 

Someone has the hi20 

thank you


----------



## Baten

Blkspn said:


> Hello
> 
> I currently use a Gustard U12 to connect via I2S to the holo spring 1 and I would like to upgrade the U12 with something better :
> 
> ...


The U12 is pretty good in its own right TBH...


----------



## Roasty

I received some cables from Peter at Phasure.

The phasure hdmi^2 cable is a big step up from the AudioQuest Carbon HDMI I was using.

Anyone else here using Phasure cables on their holo spring?


----------



## hikaru12

Hey guys,

Still trying to decide on which Spring to get - I have the option of getting a Level 3 Spring 1 for $2k or the Spring 2 for $1.7k. Which would have the better sound quality or is it negligible and I should go with the cheaper option?


----------



## ThanatosVI

How is the Spring 2 Level 1 compared to a Schiit Gungnir Multibit,  when used solely via USB?

(No other Gadgets in between like most reviews have)


----------



## Baten

hikaru12 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Still trying to decide on which Spring to get - I have the option of getting a Level 3 Spring 1 for $2k or the Spring 2 for $1.7k. Which would have the better sound quality or is it negligible and I should go with the cheaper option?


I'd go Spring 2 personally especially since it's cheaper.


----------



## dleblanc343

hikaru12 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Still trying to decide on which Spring to get - I have the option of getting a Level 3 Spring 1 for $2k or the Spring 2 for $1.7k. Which would have the better sound quality or is it negligible and I should go with the cheaper option?


If you’re going through usb, spring 2.

If you’re going i2s, definitely kte gen 1 because its got nice upgrade components and Spring 2’s main change over the original is mainly the vastly improved USB section.


----------



## phandrew

Does anyone know if you use the XLR and RCA outputs at the same time?


----------



## Roasty

phandrew said:


> Does anyone know if you use the XLR and RCA outputs at the same time?



Yes, you can. 
I'm using xlr out to my headphone amp, and RCA out to my avr.


----------



## hikaru12 (May 30, 2020)

dleblanc343 said:


> If you’re going through usb, spring 2.
> 
> If you’re going i2s, definitely kte gen 1 because its got nice upgrade components and Spring 2’s main change over the original is mainly the vastly improved USB section.



wow no kidding - I got a pi2aes for this exact reason. Maybe I’ll hold off then. My only concern is that the voltage for balanced is not the standard 4V. Is there a concern of blowing my amp up if it expects the 4V input voltage?


----------



## zeid2

The May has been out since December 2019. The published measurements were absolutely fabulous. I would have expected that by now the net would be flooded with enthusiastic reviews and reports. I wonder why this is not the case. I myself am seriously tempted.


----------



## zorilon

I think you should consider the pandemic situation. The component manufacturers were seriously affected. There are out of stock equipment everywhere.


----------



## Baten

zeid2 said:


> The May has been out since December 2019. The published measurements were absolutely fabulous. I would have expected that by now the net would be flooded with enthusiastic reviews and reports. I wonder why this is not the case. I myself am seriously tempted.


I think many impressed by May got a spring I or II. The May is another price class, perhaps too steep for most!


----------



## zeid2

Baten said:


> I think many impressed by May got a spring I or II. The May is another price class, perhaps too steep for most!



OK, but if you compare the price of May to Denafrips Terminator or Chord Hugo TT2 ... Both sell like hotcakes. Especially Chord and many complement it with MScaler.


----------



## Bonddam

I'm liking Spring 2 KTE more then the Chord Hugo TT2 mainly because I notice a shout every once in awhile where the Holo is smooth and warm.

I was trying an HDMI cable out of my computer into the i2s port but the DAC would not unlock so what do I need to do to get this going?


----------



## Roasty

Bonddam said:


> I'm liking Spring 2 KTE more then the Chord Hugo TT2 mainly because I notice a shout every once in awhile where the Holo is smooth and warm.
> 
> I was trying an HDMI cable out of my computer into the i2s port but the DAC would not unlock so what do I need to do to get this going?



The hdmi ports have to be i2s config on both sides. High chance your pc port is the standard hdmi topology (?). 

Either have a source with dedicated i2s out or use a ddc eg denafrips gaia, Singxer etc etc

I have tried the i2s and usb inputs into the Holo spring 2 and I find the i2s a whole lot better performing.


----------



## Baten

Bonddam said:


> I'm liking Spring 2 KTE more then the Chord Hugo TT2 mainly because I notice a shout every once in awhile where the Holo is smooth and warm.
> 
> I was trying an HDMI cable out of my computer into the i2s port but the DAC would not unlock so what do I need to do to get this going?


PC HDMI is not audio I2s as Roasty explained


----------



## Bonddam

Thanks for the info. Maybe next year I'll think about getting DDC.


----------



## Blkspn

Baten said:


> The U12 is pretty good in its own right TBH...



hello guys ,

would like to update the gustard u12 with a more performant DCC --- > any suggestion ? 

I contacted denafrips for the iris DCC but apparently iris will not match with holo dac . 
I foun don an other forum confirmation of not compatibility between gaia DCCand holo dac ...


----------



## Thenewguy007

Blkspn said:


> hello guys ,
> 
> would like to update the gustard u12 with a more performant DCC --- > any suggestion ?
> 
> ...



That's impossible. All the Iris does it convert the signal from your PC to your DAC. It will work.


----------



## Baten

Thenewguy007 said:


> That's impossible. All the Iris does it convert the signal from your PC to your DAC. It will work.


Maybe he means I2S incompatibility


----------



## Blkspn

Is indeed i2s incompatibility


----------



## John Massaria

Can some one help me- deciding on maybe gtting out of my D90 by Topping and going R2R - really quick Denfrips Aries 2 or Holo Spring 2?  Why


----------



## Roasty (Oct 16, 2020)

John Massaria said:


> Can some one help me- deciding on maybe gtting out of my D90 by Topping and going R2R - really quick Denfrips Aries 2 or Holo Spring 2?  Why



I've not tried d90 or the aries.
But transitioning from an xsabre pro to holo spring 2, the sensation experienced is, music seems a little bit more relaxed and less hurried. Vocals and low end have more weight and density. For lack of a better word, musicality comes to mind (I know some folks loathe this word as a descriptor...)
I didn't immediately perceive the holographic sensation some people have reported with the spring 2, rather, I did get it much more with the Wavelight.


----------



## Baten

John Massaria said:


> Can some one help me- deciding on maybe gtting out of my D90 by Topping and going R2R - really quick Denfrips Aries 2 or Holo Spring 2?  Why


Spring 2


----------



## John Massaria

anyone use Aries 2 and compared to Holo?


----------



## CopperFox (Oct 19, 2020)

John Massaria said:


> Can some one help me- deciding on maybe gtting out of my D90 by Topping and going R2R - really quick Denfrips Aries 2 or Holo Spring 2?  Why



I chose Armature Asterion (which is rebranded Holo Spring) over Aries based on two things I read. First was that most people said Spring was better in NOS mode which is IMO the real reason to get a r2r dac in the first place. Secondly, the description of their difference in bass presentation in post #508 in the Aries thread sounded like I would not like the Aries' bass. The post says the Spring has a larger, "area"-like bass sound while the Aries has a tighter bass that sounds like it's coming from a small speaker in a specific location.

I figured I've had other dacs before that had that kind of difference between them in bass presentation and my preference is the wider, larger, room-filling type of bass sound so I went with the AA. Which I liked enough to get to the May as well.


----------



## Baten

CopperFox said:


> I chose Armature Asterion (which is rebranded Holo Spring) over Aries based on two things I read. First was that most people said Spring was better in NOS mode which is IMO the real reason to get a r2r dac in the first place. Secondly, the description of their difference in bass presentation in post #508 in the Aries thread sounded like I would not like the Aries' bass. The post says the Spring has a larger, "area"-like bass sound while the Aries has a tighter bass that sounds like it's coming from a small speaker in a specific location.
> 
> I figured I've had other dacs before that had that kind of difference between them in bass presentation and my preference is the wider, larger, room-filling type of bass sound so I went with the AA. Which I liked enough to get to the May as well.


You own both Holo Audio May Kitsune tuned, Armature Asterion?


----------



## CopperFox

Baten said:


> You own both Holo Audio May Kitsune tuned, Armature Asterion?



Yes, I've got the AA set up in another room after getting the May. Can't really afford two Mays.  And even if I did it doesn't really fit on my nightstand


----------



## Baten

CopperFox said:


> Yes, I've got the AA set up in another room after getting the May. Can't really afford two Mays.  And even if I did it doesn't really fit on my nightstand


Could you elaborate on the sound between the two?  How much better is May? Or like, how much worse is Asterion? haha


----------



## CopperFox

Baten said:


> Could you elaborate on the sound between the two?  How much better is May? Or like, how much worse is Asterion? haha



Yes, posted my impressions in the May thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/holo-audio-may-dac-speculation.865892/page-4#post-15859581


----------



## tamtrum

Anyone have any impressions between the Holo Spring and the Bifrost 2?


----------



## royiko

I am eyeing a Holo Spring Lev 2 as a step up from my current Ares2. The other Dacs I am considering are Chord Qutest and Denafrips Pontus. I believe all of them are great. I am just not sure which one I should get. Anyone here could share some more info?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

It's a personal thing and for that money it would be good if you can spend some time listening to the DAC with the rest of your system.


----------



## royiko

Bonddam said:


> I'm liking Spring 2 KTE more then the Chord Hugo TT2 mainly because I notice a shout every once in awhile where the Holo is smooth and warm.
> 
> I was trying an HDMI cable out of my computer into the i2s port but the DAC would not unlock so what do I need to do to get this going?



Wow, that's such an accomplishment. I am thinking about either a Qutest or a Spring lev 2 which are a step down from your gears. But maybe you could offer me more about how would you describe the difference between Chord vs Holo?


----------



## royiko

gimmeheadroom said:


> It's a personal thing and for that money it would be good if you can spend some time listening to the DAC with the rest of your system.


I wish so. But unfortunately, its seems not possible. One is because of the pandemic. Second its because both Denafrips and Holo get very few distributors globally. So not really a possible to have an audition in the near future.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

royiko said:


> I wish so. But unfortunately, its seems not possible. One is because of the pandemic. Second its because both Denafrips and Holo get very few distributors globally. So not really a possible to have an audition in the near future.


Denafrips yeah, no way to trial one but you do have some idea from your Ares II. But there should be Holo dealers in Switzerland, no? The Holo is sold under several brand names.


----------



## royiko

gimmeheadroom said:


> Denafrips yeah, no way to trial one but you do have some idea from your Ares II. But there should be Holo dealers in Switzerland, no? The Holo is sold under several brand names.


There is one, but quite far for me. It's mainly the pandemic issue ATM. I am playing with my Ares II every day for like half-a-year. I wish it could be more resolving but like the musicality.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

royiko said:


> There is one, but quite far for me. It's mainly the pandemic issue ATM. I am playing with my Ares II every day for like half-a-year. I wish it could be more resolving but like the musicality.


Maybe you prefer R2R DACs? Seems to me Chord can be very analytical, not as warm some. But they are very resolving yeah. I didn't hear the Qutest but I heard the Hugo 2.

What about Rockna? It gets very good reviews along with the Holos.

I wonder if any shops are doing demos where they ship you the device to try out. Seems like gear that costs this much should come with good service.


----------



## royiko

This is puzzling. I searched the thread. Some say the Chord Hugo 2 get better depth, other say Spring 2 has. I do prefer the dac with better sense of depth. I will very intriguing when I can sense the soundstage depth through stereo.


----------



## Deolum

Roasty said:


> I've not tried d90 or the aries.
> But transitioning from an xsabre pro to holo spring 2, the sensation experienced is, music seems a little bit more relaxed and less hurried. Vocals and low end have more weight and density. For lack of a better word, musicality comes to mind (I know some folks loathe this word as a descriptor...)
> I didn't immediately perceive the holographic sensation some people have reported with the spring 2, rather, I did get it much more with the Wavelight.


Can you elaborate a bit more? Did your impressions stay the same? Do you like the switch you made or not? What is your rig? Which setups did you use on the Sabre?

I have a xsabre Pro demo atm and while it's the best dac i've had so far i'm considering buying a Holo Spring 2 Level 2 because in all Dacs so far i miss a bit of emotions. I never had any R2R or Nos dac.


----------



## Baten

Deolum said:


> I have a xsabre Pro demo atm and while it's the best dac i've had so far i'm considering buying a Holo Spring 2 Level 2 because in all Dacs so far i miss a bit of emotions. I never had any R2R or Nos dac.


Holo spring 2 was my favourite ever DAC, enjoy man.


----------



## Roasty (Nov 5, 2020)

Deolum said:


> Can you elaborate a bit more? Did your impressions stay the same? Do you like the switch you made or not? What is your rig? Which setups did you use on the Sabre?
> 
> I have a xsabre Pro demo atm and while it's the best dac i've had so far i'm considering buying a Holo Spring 2 Level 2 because in all Dacs so far i miss a bit of emotions. I never had any R2R or Nos dac.



yes, i did enjoy the switch to R2R. so much so, i sold both the xsabre pro and benchmark dac3b.
i used the gsxmini and woo audio22 with the xsabrepro.

if u have xsabrepro and get the holo, you will get two different flavours of sound for sure. both are great dacs. give the holo a shot; you might love it or hate it. in the end, it will boil down to your own personal preference.

*edit

If it's emotion you're looking for, I find perhaps the xsabre is a bit too "clean" to evoke that sensation. It is, however extremely accurate and very versatile (input/output options and user settings). It is also built like a tank. 

Rather than the Spring, have u looked at the May?


----------



## Deolum

Roasty said:


> yes, i did enjoy the switch to R2R. so much so, i sold both the xsabre pro and benchmark dac3b.
> i used the gsxmini and woo audio22 with the xsabrepro.
> 
> if u have xsabrepro and get the holo, you will get two different flavours of sound for sure. both are great dacs. give the holo a shot; you might love it or hate it. in the end, it will boil down to your own personal preference.
> ...


Yes but May is too expensive


----------



## arjuna93

Bonddam said:


> I'm liking Spring 2 KTE more then the Chord Hugo TT2 mainly because I notice a shout every once in awhile where the Holo is smooth and warm.



Oh wow. What type of music do you listen to?


----------



## Bonddam

arjuna93 said:


> Oh wow. What type of music do you listen to?


I listen to electronic mainly edm.


----------



## gibsonsg87

Hello everybody. I am a new owner of the Holo Spring 2 Level 1 (One week so far). I liked it with my Schiit Vali 2 but I'm having some troubles with the pairing of the Audio GD M9. Anybody have any success with the sound without the SU-1 and its variants? Or is it an essential part of getting the best sound out of it? (I'm using an AudioQuest Forest USB into the PC right now.)

It's very peaky and shouty in the treble regions right now (For certain albums). I also know that burn-in is essential for these too. I saw between 100-280 hours for some people. Anyone else using the Master 9 with their Spring DAC?


----------



## joseph69

gibsonsg87 said:


> I liked it with my Schiit Vali 2.


Sounds like there's better synergy going on between the Spring & Vali 2, so why not stick with this combo instead of trying to match it with other gear?


----------



## gibsonsg87 (Dec 4, 2020)

I got the Master 9 as an upgrade. I am starting to hear some positive changes from burning in. It is sounding better so I think it's a good match.

Update:

I changed to my single ended copper cable and that solved the sound problem. I have to search for an all copper balanced cable cable. (The balanced cable I had was a silver-plated copper cable.)


----------



## Bonddam

gibsonsg87 said:


> Hello everybody. I am a new owner of the Holo Spring 2 Level 1 (One week so far). I liked it with my Schiit Vali 2 but I'm having some troubles with the pairing of the Audio GD M9. Anybody have any success with the sound without the SU-1 and its variants? Or is it an essential part of getting the best sound out of it? (I'm using an AudioQuest Forest USB into the PC right now.)
> 
> It's very peaky and shouty in the treble regions right now (For certain albums). I also know that burn-in is essential for these too. I saw between 100-280 hours for some people. Anyone else using the Master 9 with their Spring DAC?



have the Spring 2 KTE going into my WA33 and it’s not shouting on my end. It’s a little too smooth for my taste.  I also use it on my BHSE and it’s bright when using Stax SR-009s but in a good way.


----------



## xtiva

Hi headfier
New owner of Spring 2 Lvl2 but how do u put dac into standby mode? 

Thanks.


----------



## Baten

xtiva said:


> New owner of Spring 2 Lvl2 but how do u put dac into standby mode?


It is the mute button. Muting the device puts it in a low-power/standby mode, for if you want maximum SQ after resuming listening.


----------



## xtiva

Baten said:


> It is the mute button. Muting the device puts it in a low-power/standby mode, for if you want maximum SQ after resuming listening.


Oh thanks so much for the quick help


----------



## Bonddam

I just leave it on keep it warm. Sounds really good when I listen to SR-007 mk2 through BHSE.


----------



## xtiva

Hi all Spring owners...

Currently using RPi with Allo DigiOne.  Was using Coaxial RCA out and found that sound was muddy but when changing connection to USB straight from RPi board itself, sound has changed so much better... and this made to look at I2S interface...

However this is whole new world for me and wanted to get some information... looks like connection is not like any other connection where there are so many variants in I2S...

Firstly, does Spring have functionality to change pin-out like Denafrips or SMSL?
if not is it only the Singxer XU-6 is the only one that is compatible?  
Do you know if PI2AES would be compatible?  Would love to connect straight from 

Thanks for reading.


----------



## Baten

xtiva said:


> Do you know if PI2AES would be compatible?  Would love to connect straight from
> 
> Thanks for reading.


Out of the box, L and R will be swapped. So if you just reverse those, it'll work


----------



## xtiva

Baten said:


> Out of the box, L and R will be swapped. So if you just reverse those, it'll work


Thanks so much for quick response...
So I could theoretically connect DAC and AMP in reverse? ie. connect L to R and R to L?
Thanks.


----------



## Baten

xtiva said:


> So I could theoretically connect DAC and AMP in reverse? ie. connect L to R and R to L?
> Thanks.


yep, that should do it! easily verifiable, too.


----------



## xtiva

Baten said:


> yep, that should do it! easily verifiable, too.


Great thanks  bit disappointing that you can't change I2S output though...


----------



## Baten

xtiva said:


> Great thanks  bit disappointing that you can't change I2S output though...


Pi2Aes is working on adapting the I2S but I can't link to that forum


----------



## xtiva

Oh thanks I meant Holo Spring...  looks like May can be changed...


----------



## xtiva

Sorry for posting so many question but seems to be getting channel imbalance on XLR and it looks to have lower output level compared to RCA?

Looks like might require service?

Below is RCA output to my head amp;
https://i.imgur.com/12sVVqX.mp4

And below is XLR and see the difference from VU meter and it difference can huge when listening...
https://i.imgur.com/12sVVqX.mp4


----------



## xtr4

xtiva said:


> Sorry for posting so many question but seems to be getting channel imbalance on XLR and it looks to have lower output level compared to RCA?
> 
> Looks like might require service?
> 
> ...



Hi xtiva,

Coincidentally, I own the Phonitor X as well and I've noticed on some tracks that the VU meters will display differently for certain mastering, depending on the stereo recording. This to me is perfectly normal (from a VU meter display perspective).

However, from the videos, I can exactly tell what information is being portrayed.
Could you tell me the following when comparing RCA to XLR;

1) Are both connections at the same volume on the volume knob?
2) Is the sound "weaker" on the right side due to the imbalance or does it sound the same?
3) Have you tried swapping the L and R cables to see if the channel imbalance follows accordingly?
4) Are both RCA and XLR connected simultaneously from the Spring2 to the Phonitor? If they are both connected at the same time, something funky might be going on. Try testing then separately


----------



## xtiva (Dec 28, 2020)

xtr4 said:


> Hi xtiva,
> 
> Coincidentally, I own the Phonitor X as well and I've noticed on some tracks that the VU meters will display differently for certain mastering, depending on the stereo recording. This to me is perfectly normal (from a VU meter display perspective).
> 
> ...




Thanks for reply.  It is actually playing same part of the music.  Only thing I did was to switch input between xlr and rca.  I can definitely feel center of music shifting when changing the input.  Have used another input via XLR and did not have issue 

I have tested 3 and 4 but didn't make difference. Unplugged RCA completely but same issue... swapped the cable as well.. and changed the cable..

Will do more testing tommorrow.


----------



## xtiva

xtr4 said:


> Hi xtiva,
> 
> Coincidentally, I own the Phonitor X as well and I've noticed on some tracks that the VU meters will display differently for certain mastering, depending on the stereo recording. This to me is perfectly normal (from a VU meter display perspective).
> 
> ...



Just got my power filter yesterday and with that have had unplu everything and reconnect and now imbalance issue is gone!!!  

Now not sure if its the power or recable but will just leave it as is


----------



## zorilon (Feb 6, 2021)

I have a Chord Dave for a couple of days at my home and when I revert the Dave polarity (it has a Negative Polarity setting) it sounds more like the Holo, with tall bass and empty space in the middle of the stereo scene. When I switched to normal polarity on Dave, the middle of stereo imaging is filled with instruments and effect. I changed the polarity in Holo Spring using Audirvana in sounds like Dave with normal polarity.


----------



## arjuna93

Has anyone tried Airbow upgraded Holo Spring?
http://airbow.jp/shopdetail/000000000435/


----------



## Baten

arjuna93 said:


> Has anyone tried Airbow upgraded Holo Spring?
> http://airbow.jp/shopdetail/000000000435/


No pictures or detailed info, and a "file conversion" service for your music files, lol. Sounds very sketchy.
If you're interested in a TOTL re-capped Spring 2 just check out Wildism in HK, they ship internationally
https://wildism-audio-hk.myshopify....9-holo-audio-r2r-spring2-wild-edition-extreme


----------



## arjuna93

Baten said:


> No pictures or detailed info, and a "file conversion" service for your music files, lol. Sounds very sketchy.
> If you're interested in a TOTL re-capped Spring 2 just check out Wildism in HK, they ship internationally
> https://wildism-audio-hk.myshopify....9-holo-audio-r2r-spring2-wild-edition-extreme



Airbow is no BS, their Stax mods are amazing.

But thanks for HK reference, it's interesting.


----------



## Ludique

They put a Jensen oil cap across the mains input, which is not “insurance company approved” practice.


----------



## Baten

Ludique said:


> They put a Jensen oil cap across the mains input, which is not “insurance company approved” practice.


Can you explain? The talema section is only used in sleep mode btw, the actual DAC power section is the other toroidal transformer which should have "insurance company" approved coupling


----------



## Ludique (Jan 15, 2021)

Baten said:


> Can you explain? The talema section is only used in sleep mode btw, the actual DAC power section is the other toroidal transformer which should have "insurance company" approved coupling


The Jensen cap is used across power live and neutral as a simple mains filter before any of the transformers. The approved practice is to use x rated capacitors in this purpose.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1...63032047275471_6042287037145415680_o_900x.jpg


----------



## bobspencer123

Hey everyone,

I am seriously considering getting a Spring 2 level 1. 

I currently have an original Allo Digione I use and I also have an Intel NUC that I could use for USB output. I know that most people consider i2s the strongest input on these but I a DDC would not also be in my budget. Does everyone think that running one of these either through coax from the DIgione or USB from a NUC would still be taking advantage of the overall quality of the DAC? 

Also, I am a big vinyl head and my analog rig is clearly superior to my current digital setup but I am seriously interested in upgrading my digital game. 

Thanks!


----------



## Baten

bobspencer123 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I am seriously considering getting a Spring 2 level 1.
> 
> ...


Spring 2 USB is super good. I found no real benefit from using my SU-1 unlike with Spring 1.


----------



## xtiva

I have Allo DigiOne myself and using BNC to Spring but USB is also very good on Holo just not RPi' USB...   

I would use COAX from RPi or USB from NUC, both will work very 

BTW what OS are you using on RPi?  Am using Moode as it sounded a little better than Volumio......


----------



## bobspencer123

xtiva said:


> I have Allo DigiOne myself and using BNC to Spring but USB is also very good on Holo just not RPi' USB...
> 
> I would use COAX from RPi or USB from NUC, both will work very
> 
> BTW what OS are you using on RPi?  Am using Moode as it sounded a little better than Volumio......



I'm still using Dietpi, which I have had for the past ~3 years or so without any complaints.


----------



## xtiva

bobspencer123 said:


> I'm still using Dietpi, which I have had for the past ~3 years or so without any complaints.


Oh thanks.. 

Just got i2s streamer this morning, 30 min ago will let u know if i2s is any better... using Kali reclocker and some i2s board .. got it from Audiophonics in France, fully assembled including RPi. So far can't tell difference but awaiting for HDMI 30cm cable....

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/netw...li-reclocker-audio-gd-compatible-p-13064.html


----------



## bobspencer123

I will be interested to hear your impressions. What cable did you get? I'm pretty unfamiliar with i2s at this point (other than it looks like hdmi)


----------



## aisnikkor

Baten said:


> Spring 2 USB is super good. I found no real benefit from using my SU-1 unlike with Spring 1.


Have to agree with Baten.  I have a KTE SU1, but with the 30.12 firmware update, to me USB now sounds a little better than I2S, at worst no different.  My SU1 will be going up for sale shortly.

I would also note that Spring 2 works really nicely with HQPlayer as well


----------



## xtiva

bobspencer123 said:


> I will be interested to hear your impressions. What cable did you get? I'm pretty unfamiliar with i2s at this point (other than it looks like hdmi)


Looks like it is getting returned.  Wasn't able to get it to play at anything higher than 192k and more over wasn't able to play DSD at all.  Product was supposed to be able to play upto 384k and DSD but wasn't able to get it working using both Volumio or Moode player.

Now time to hunt for another i2s device... or streamer with USB output.  

Looking at SMSL DP5 or Lumin U2 Mini... but Lumin, price is a little too high....


----------



## bobspencer123

Anyone know why kitsunehifi is seemingly sold out of a lot of holo stuff and other items? Is it just the pandemic or something else? I would really like to find a spring on the used market but may have to buy new and just want to make sure something is going on with them that I should know about.


----------



## joseph69

bobspencer123 said:


> I would really like to find a spring on the used market but may have to buy new and just want to make sure something is going on with them that I should know about.


I think it'll be hard to find a used Spring DAC on the market.
Also, most likely what's going on with Kitsune is people really enjoy the Holo products which is why they're sold out.


----------



## donato

bobspencer123 said:


> Anyone know why kitsunehifi is seemingly sold out of a lot of holo stuff and other items? Is it just the pandemic or something else? I would really like to find a spring on the used market but may have to buy new and just want to make sure something is going on with them that I should know about.



I believe sold out means they don't have the parts to make any at the moment.  Even in stock just means they have the parts but they still build to order.  

All that being said, I'll probably put my spring 1 kte up for sale soon since it is not getting much use ever since I upgraded to may kte


----------



## bobspencer123 (Feb 17, 2021)

One more question before I pull the trigger on one of these. I use the top of an Ikea Expedit for my gear. I currently have my turntable (VPI Classic), phonostage (Herron VTPH-2), and Amp (Decware Torii) on it. I do not have room to put the Spring on it unless I stack. I was thinking of putting the Herron on top of the Spring. I know this is not truly ideal but is there any compelling reason not to do so? Does the Spring get hot? I would need to do some pretty serious re-arranging and purchase a dedicated audio rack to change my setup (which I really don't want to do). Thanks.


----------



## xtiva

Spring does get warm but not


bobspencer123 said:


> One more question before I pull the trigger on one of these. I use the top of an Ikea Expedit for my gear. I currently have my turntable (VPI Classic), phonostage (Herron VTPH-2), and Amp (Decware Torii) on it. I do not have room to put the Spring on it unless I stack. I was thinking of putting the Herron on top of the Spring. I know this is not truly ideal but is there any compelling reason not to do so? Does the Spring get hot? I would need to do some pretty serious re-arranging and purchase a dedicated audio rack to change my setup (which I really don't want to do). Thanks.



Holo gets a little warm but not hot, a little warm to touch they are built top notch so stacking on top of unit doesn't look to affect the device... might want to have little gap between the 2 devices though.... may be IsoAcoustics similar to make some gap for air?


----------



## ThanatosVI

xtiva said:


> Spring does get warm but not
> 
> 
> Holo gets a little warm but not hot, a little warm to touch they are built top notch so stacking on top of unit doesn't look to affect the device... might want to have little gap between the 2 devices though.... may be IsoAcoustics similar to make some gap for air?


I use some viablue feet which are similar to the IsoAcoustic ones,simply for a little more air between the devices.

For heat dissipation it works great,  sound wise I I couldn't hear a difference


----------



## bobspencer123 (Feb 17, 2021)

Thank you ... ^^^^^ I will definitely use some feet to give a little space between devices.

edit: Ok, I placed my order with kitsune hifi, now the hard part, the waiting!


----------



## xtiva

bobspencer123 said:


> I placed my order with kitsune hifi, now the hard part, the waiting


Oh congrats man!!!!!  Sorry for bad news but Chinese New Year so might take a little longer


----------



## eskamobob1

Can't seem to find the may thread so I'll post this here instead


----------



## eee1111 (Feb 20, 2021)

eskamobob1 said:


> Can't seem to find the may thread so I'll post this here instead



He lost me at Anime picture and “tickle me under the balls”

im sure it’s not worth 4,000 but the holo spring is definitely a nice dac and that is prob better


----------



## gibsonsg87 (Mar 2, 2021)

Deleted. Working on solution now.


----------



## gibsonsg87 (Mar 2, 2021)

Deleted


----------



## gibsonsg87 (Mar 2, 2021)

Deleted.


----------



## hikaru12 (Mar 11, 2021)

Has anyone compared the Holo to any of Metrum/Sonnets offerings? I just got in my Pavane and I’m still getting used to the NOS sound but just curious about what the Holo sounds like. I’ve always heard it described as sweet but I have never really had anyone expand on that? Is the midrange sweet? Is it mainly a neutral DAC? I wish there was a way to hear one because then I could decide if I would move the Pavane to my speaker setup and get the Holo for headphone listening.


----------



## Baten

hikaru12 said:


> Has anyone compared the Holo to any of Metrum/Sonnets offerings? I just got in my Pavane and getting used to the NOS sound but just curious about what the Holo sounds like. I’ve always heard it described as sweet but I have never really had anyone expand on that? Is the midrange sweet? Is it mainly a neutral DAC? I wish there was a way to hear one because then I could decide if I would move the Pavane to my speaker setup and get the Holo for headphone listening.


I've used a holo spring 2 for headphone listening and it was awesome. In NOS mode it sounds best and there it is more sweet/rolled than neutral, so if you want absolute uncoloured sound better look elsewhere. I can't compare to Metrum stuff though. But from memory holo spring 2 is the best DAC I've had, can only recommend it in full.


----------



## hikaru12

Baten said:


> I've used a holo spring 2 for headphone listening and it was awesome. In NOS mode it sounds best and there it is more sweet/rolled than neutral, so if you want absolute uncoloured sound better look elsewhere. I can't compare to Metrum stuff though. But from memory holo spring 2 is the best DAC I've had, can only recommend it in full.



No issues there then just curious if it’s a bad pairing with headphones that are already warm like ZMF cans (I have the Eikons, for example). I do notice the roll off with NOS but it’s not bad persay, you lose out on some air and treble sharpness but you get all day listening pleasure.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by sweet? Does the midrange sound sweet or is it the treble that sparkles and sound inoffensive? I have a hard time understanding what people mean by that when they describe this DAC.


----------



## Baten

hikaru12 said:


> No issues there then just curious if it’s a bad pairing with headphones that are already warm like ZMF cans (I have the Eikons, for example). I do notice the roll off with NOS but it’s not bad persay, you lose out on some air and treble sharpness but you get all day listening pleasure.
> 
> Can you elaborate on what you mean by sweet? Does the midrange sound sweet or is it the treble that sparkles and sound inoffensive? I have a hard time understanding what people mean by that when they describe this DAC.


It's been a while though, but for me the holo spring 2 sounds very 'layered' and authentic. NOS with low-res material can sound less sparkly/airy, but with high-res or upsampled material that is no longer the case.


----------



## hikaru12

Baten said:


> It's been a while though, but for me the holo spring 2 sounds very 'layered' and authentic. NOS with low-res material can sound less sparkly/airy, but with high-res or upsampled material that is no longer the case.



Ive heard this on multiple occasions with NOS. Any specific filter you prefer if you’re using HQPlayer? I think that’s why I’m struggling with NOS currently actually as my Eikons were pretty airy before and on regular Redbook they sound kind of muted.


----------



## Baten

hikaru12 said:


> Ive heard this on multiple occasions with NOS. Any specific filter you prefer if you’re using HQPlayer? I think that’s why I’m struggling with NOS currently actually as my Eikons were pretty airy before and on regular Redbook they sound kind of muted.


Have you tried one of the poly-sinc PCM to 704kHz/1.4MHz?

yeah with Redbook it can be especially noticeable


----------



## hikaru12

Baten said:


> Have you tried one of the poly-sinc PCM to 704kHz/1.4MHz?
> 
> yeah with Redbook it can be especially noticeable



I'm currently running USB - my limit is 384. What interface are you using to get it so high?


----------



## Baten (Mar 11, 2021)

hikaru12 said:


> I'm currently running USB - my limit is 384. What interface are you using to get it so high?


Windows with the ASIO driver installed, gives me highest 48kHz multiple as 1.536kHz. This works up to 24-bit with foobar upsampling, HQplayer or other player of choice. On OSX rates up to 1.536kHz are also seen, even without driver but will only work with 16-bit, 24-bit will sound garbled (OSX can't go this high); 16-bit works fine too though.

Oh, Windows configuration might not see this as a Device possible rate even with the driver installed. You need to push it to the holo spring manually. In foobar2000 you need to set 1408000 (44k) or 1536000 (48k) for example. ASIO or WASAPI is probably required since DirectSound will refuse to play.


----------



## hikaru12

Baten said:


> Windows with the ASIO driver installed, gives me highest 48kHz multiple as 1.536kHz. This works up to 24-bit with foobar upsampling, HQplayer or other player of choice. On OSX rates up to 1.536kHz are also seen, even without driver but will only work with 16-bit, 24-bit will sound garbled (OSX can't go this high); 16-bit works fine too though.
> 
> Oh, Windows configuration might not see this as a Device possible rate even with the driver installed. You need to push it to the holo spring manually. In foobar2000 you need to set 1408000 (44k) or 1536000 (48k) for example. ASIO or WASAPI is probably required since DirectSound will refuse to play.



It's quite good upsampled (more air and detail/treble energy) but I think I prefer pure NOS. There's just something about being able to do all day listening and a more 'pure' experience. Buying a NOS DAC just to oversample seems counterintuitive.


----------



## Contrails

Baten said:


> I've used a holo spring 2 for headphone listening and it was awesome. In NOS mode it sounds best and there it is more sweet/rolled than neutral, so if you want absolute uncoloured sound better look elsewhere. I can't compare to Metrum stuff though. But from memory holo spring 2 is the best DAC I've had, can only recommend it in full.


I have owned the Level 3 with Singxer Su-1 bridge and a Metrum Musette. Both are Very good. But this is how I would summarise them:
Musette - More Vinyl sounding as it sounds softer and has a bit of HF roll off.  Very natural midrange. Bit laid back.

Holo - More energetic sounding without fatiguing. HF is more extended but not harsh. Bigger soundstage. With the Su-1 it sounds just as good as the Musette in the mids. The Holo was double the price of the Musette. The Su-1 just cleans the sound just a tad more so it’s a worthwhile upgrade.

Also, the Metrum was limited to 16 bit (DAC one module). The DAC two modules can play 24 bit.


----------



## penguinofsleep2 (Mar 15, 2021)

Has anyone been able to compare the Holo May to the Spring 2 (any level) or maybe even the upcoming Spring 3?

Curious about the differences between the two different products, the website doesn't talk about it much. The little feedback I've seen on Spring vs Spring 2 (any level) seems to indicate that the Spring 2 is more or less a "new and improved" Spring but nothing about the Spring vs May. If we use headphones analogies, is this like the HFM Ananda, Arya, and Susvara that are all very similar sounding and more or less just upgrades? Or is it more like going between an HE-6 family headphone vs the HE-1000 family where the two are pretty different in most aspects and one just happens to cost more than the other?


----------



## Baten

penguinofsleep2 said:


> or maybe even the upcoming Spring 3?


Don't think anyone knows anything about this one yet. Except that there'll be a preamp add-on module for it.


----------



## xtiva

penguinofsleep2 said:


> Has anyone been able to compare the Holo May to the Spring 2 (any level) or maybe even the upcoming Spring 3?
> 
> Curious about the differences between the two different products, the website doesn't talk about it much. The little feedback I've seen on Spring vs Spring 2 (any level) seems to indicate that the Spring 2 is more or less a "new and improved" Spring but nothing about the Spring vs May. If we use headphones analogies, is this like the HFM Ananda, Arya, and Susvara that are all very similar sounding and more or less just upgrades? Or is it more like going between an HE-6 family headphone vs the HE-1000 family where the two are pretty different in most aspects and one just happens to cost more than the other?



I was looking at May to upgrade Spring 2 Lvl 2 but went with Denafrips Terminator after auditioning it.  

It is different to Holo's sound, laid back and rolled off trabble, it is dynamic and detail retrieval was just amazing.  Also the separation each instrument was just amazing.......  I am 99% classical music listener and believe Terminator just did all type of music perfectly... wind, string opera, Terminator just reproduced sound so perfectly......... 

Holo does look much better and has remote but yeah guess at the end of the day subjective sound quality is what it matters


----------



## penguinofsleep2

Would you say the sound of the May was similar to the Spring 2 lvl2? Or was it a different sound all together. 

FWIW, I don't think the Denafrips Terminator will work for me sound wise, much of it being the laid back sound and rolled treble you mention above.


----------



## bobspencer123

Hey all, does anyone have a way to get a hold of Kitsune HiFi that isn't through the contact me thing on their page. I have sent two messages and gotten no response. I ordered my Spring about a month ago and have heard nothing from them other than one auto response upon initial order. I'm a little concerned about spending so much money and having such a hard time getting a response from them. I certainly understand that the website warns of a 4-6 week wait for your order, but I still don't think replying to an email is too much to ask.


----------



## donato

bobspencer123 said:


> Hey all, does anyone have a way to get a hold of Kitsune HiFi that isn't through the contact me thing on their page. I have sent two messages and gotten no response. I ordered my Spring about a month ago and have heard nothing from them other than one auto response upon initial order. I'm a little concerned about spending so much money and having such a hard time getting a response from them. I certainly understand that the website warns of a 4-6 week wait for your order, but I still don't think replying to an email is too much to ask.


You could try PMing him here.  he's bimmer100 here on head-fi and on other sites.


----------



## xtiva

penguinofsleep2 said:


> Would you say the sound of the May was similar to the Spring 2 lvl2? Or was it a different sound all together.
> 
> FWIW, I don't think the Denafrips Terminator will work for me sound wise, much of it being the laid back sound and rolled treble you mention above.


oops i meant compared to Terminator, Holo sounded rolled off and laid back... sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Smallpie (Mar 19, 2021)

Does everybody leave their spring on at all times or do you put it in standby?


----------



## whirlwind

Akiravelvet said:


> Does everybody leave their spring on at all times or do you put it in standby?



I never turn mine off but i do put it in stand by


----------



## Baten

whirlwind said:


> I never turn mine off but i do put it in stand by


I think this is the way


----------



## Quadman

By chance does anyone know the value of the Grey rectangular capacitors in the spring 2 located right next to the R2R board?


----------



## zorilon

penguinofsleep2 said:


> Has anyone been able to compare the Holo May to the Spring 2 (any level) or maybe even the upcoming Spring 3?
> 
> Curious about the differences between the two different products, the website doesn't talk about it much. The little feedback I've seen on Spring vs Spring 2 (any level) seems to indicate that the Spring 2 is more or less a "new and improved" Spring but nothing about the Spring vs May. If we use headphones analogies, is this like the HFM Ananda, Arya, and Susvara that are all very similar sounding and more or less just upgrades? Or is it more like going between an HE-6 family headphone vs the HE-1000 family where the two are pretty different in most aspects and one just happens to cost more than the other?


I had the Spring 2 KTE and now I have the Holo May KTE. In my system (Susvara and Niimbus US4 amp) the Spring 2 KTE sounded more natural, pleasing with authority bass, perfect midrange and holographic presentation, analog sound. 

The Holo May in my system has a not so great tonality. The midrange and upper midrange is more forward, sounds more Hi-fi timbre, the bass is so accurate that loses the robustness that Spring 2 KTE has. The highs are almost the same.

Otherwise the May KTE is more technically correct, it is much cleaner sounding, it has perfect imaging, positioning of instruments were Spring 2 KTE was a little hazy in comparison (this becomes apparent only when competing to May or Chord Dave).

If the May KTE had the Spring 2 KTE timbre, it will be the perfect DAC for me. Hope it will come close with more burn in (around 300 h at this moment).


----------



## theveterans

zorilon said:


> I had the Spring 2 KTE and now I have the Holo May KTE. In my system (Susvara and Niimbus US4 amp) the Spring 2 KTE sounded more natural, pleasing with authority bass, perfect midrange and holographic presentation, analog sound.
> 
> The Holo May in my system has a not so great tonality. The midrange and upper midrange is more forward, sounds more Hi-fi timbre, the bass is so accurate that loses the robustness that Spring 2 KTE has. The highs are almost the same.
> 
> ...



Have you tried the different reconstruction filters from May? Maybe the built-in OS filter is pretty incisive in its presentation that it lacks the musicality of say NOS filter or the DSD512 HQ Player poly-sinc filter


----------



## zorilon

theveterans said:


> Have you tried the different reconstruction filters from May? Maybe the built-in OS filter is pretty incisive in its presentation that it lacks the musicality of say NOS filter or the DSD512 HQ Player poly-sinc filter


I use only NOS mode for all my Holo Audio DAC’s. I am not a fan of over-sampling.


----------



## BoogieWoogie (Apr 24, 2021)

I will just leave this here, impressions from Steve of Decware, the owner. It's a amplifier building company.

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1587527488/41#41


----------



## xtr4

BoogieWoogie said:


> I will just leave this here, impressions from Steve of Decware, the owner. It's a amplifier building company.
> 
> https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1587527488/0


Did you misplace this post? Though informative, Steve never mentioned anything about Holo nor R2R DACs hahaha


----------



## BoogieWoogie

xtr4 said:


> Did you misplace this post? Though informative, Steve never mentioned anything about Holo nor R2R DACs hahaha


It's down on the page:
https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1587527488/41#41


----------



## whirlwind

zorilon said:


> I use only NOS mode for all my Holo Audio DAC’s. I am not a fan of over-sampling.


I do the same


----------



## xtr4

BoogieWoogie said:


> It's down on the page:
> https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1587527488/41#41


My apologies as I didn't get that far down the page yet. Thank you for highlighting.


----------



## BoogieWoogie

xtr4 said:


> My apologies as I didn't get that far down the page yet. Thank you for highlighting.


No problem. That's the biggest rave I have seen for the Holo. I think only the Z guy says he didn't notice any difference from a topping to holo eh.


----------



## xtr4

BoogieWoogie said:


> No problem. That's the biggest rave I have seen for the Holo. I think only the Z guy says he didn't notice any difference from a topping to holo eh.


Yeah, I own the Holo May and it put my RME ADI-2 DAC to shame, and I really loved the RME prior to blind purchasing the May


----------



## eee1111 (Apr 25, 2021)

any suggestions for streaming devices to go into the su1 via usb?


----------



## duranxv

How do the Holo Spring DAC's compare to Denafrips?  From what I've heard about the specs and measurements of the new Spring 3, it looks like it's going to blow the Denafrips DAC's out of the water in almost every respect.  I was eyeing a Pontus II or Venus II, but I think at this point I might as well wait for the Spring 3.

@bimmer100  Any update on when the Spring 3 will be released?


----------



## xtr4

duranxv said:


> How do the Holo Spring DAC's compare to Denafrips?  From what I've heard about the specs and measurements of the new Spring 3, it looks like it's going to blow the Denafrips DAC's out of the water in almost every respect.  I was eyeing a Pontus II or Venus II, but I think at this point I might as well wait for the Spring 3.
> 
> @bimmer100  Any update on when the Spring 3 will be released?


I think you meant the Holo Audio May, and it has been out since early 2020.


----------



## duranxv

xtr4 said:


> I think you meant the Holo Audio May, and it has been out since early 2020.



I meant the Spring   The Holo May is more of a direct competitor to the Denafrips Terminator in my opinion, but I could be wrong.  I'm definitely not going all the way up to that price point, lol.


----------



## Baten

xtr4 said:


> I think you meant the Holo Audio May, and it has been out since early 2020.


No. Spring 3 will release soon. Trickle-down tech from May.


----------



## zorilon

This is the Holo Spring 3:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-audio-spring-3-dac-wpreamp-prototype.22083/


----------



## xtr4

zorilon said:


> This is the Holo Spring 3:
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-audio-spring-3-dac-wpreamp-prototype.22083/


I stand corrected


----------



## Palyodgree (May 28, 2021)

zorilon said:


> I had the Spring 2 KTE and now I have the Holo May KTE. In my system (Susvara and Niimbus US4 amp) the Spring 2 KTE sounded more natural, pleasing with authority bass, perfect midrange and holographic presentation, analog sound.
> 
> The Holo May in my system has a not so great tonality. The midrange and upper midrange is more forward, sounds more Hi-fi timbre, the bass is so accurate that loses the robustness that Spring 2 KTE has. The highs are almost the same.
> 
> ...


I have had my May KTE dac for a short while and had just given it a good listen to in my main system , Lamm mono blocks , Gershman speakers though the new room is far from ideal I did get a bit of a different perspective then using my headphone system.
But first my long standing reference is live un amplified music having grown up around it and married to a precessional studio vocalist this hobby for me begins and ends with a great recording.
The enormous talent through out the decades available on vinyl, tape and digital formats is there for the choosing of many , many superb recordings and it is with this that many in this hobby choose to evaluate the performance of said playback components for in the home .
As I get use to the Holo May KTE Dac I to find timbre and tone with well recorded vocals not where it should be compared with two other dacs i had that did present a more realistic almost living presence with well recorded vocals and hopefully as you mentioned more run in time might loosen this area up to reveal how sensational vocals can really sound , through my main system the vocalist appears out of thin air about 6 feet out front of the speakers with nothing seemly coming from the speakers the sound stage is set in a beautiful three demenional manner , the resolved ambience surrounding the singer is striking that I don’t get so much of this using my headphone system.
But so far the May dac is excellent for the money.

Finally I have been informed that Holo Audio are currently voicing a new headphone amplifier using the Susvaras that should be interesting to hear , apparently information will be released later this year ..


----------



## Palyodgree

One thing I would like to add regarding the Holo May dac , do not use a Ac conditioner with it try direct into the wall , could be something with the interaction with a Ac conditioner try it and listen ,.I like the performance of the May this way .


----------



## zorilon

Palyodgree said:


> I have had my May KTE dac for a short while and had just given it a good listen to in my main system , Lamm mono blocks , Gershman speakers though the new room is far from ideal I did get a bit of a different perspective then using my headphone system.
> But first my long standing reference is live un amplified music having grown up around it and married to a precessional studio vocalist this hobby for me begins and ends with a great recording.
> The enormous talent through out the decades available on vinyl, tape and digital formats is there for the choosing of many , many superb recordings and it is with this that many in this hobby choose to evaluate the performance of said playback components for in the home .
> As I get use to the Holo May KTE Dac I to find timbre and tone with well recorded vocals not where it should be compared with two other dacs i had that did present a more realistic almost living presence with well recorded vocals and hopefully as you mentioned more run in time might loosen this area up to reveal how sensational vocals can really sound , through my main system the vocalist appears out of thin air about 6 feet out front of the speakers with nothing seemly coming from the speakers the sound stage is set in a beautiful three demenional manner , the resolved ambience surrounding the singer is striking that I don’t get so much of this using my headphone system.
> ...


Yes, this is my opinion also. I’m glad seeing that I am not the only one hearing this thing.


----------



## Palyodgree (May 29, 2021)

zorilon said:


> Yes, this is my opinion also. I’m glad seeing that I am not the only one hearing this thing.


Zorilon yes I’m very conscious of timbre and tone of human voice and use good recordings to evaluate my system especially with changes then early this morning I thought to dispense with using the AC conditioner and plug the May dac directly into the wall receptacle , I noticed a very nice change with the May dac.
Definitely the power conditioner had a minor negative effect on the May dac whether this is specifically to the brand I have it’s my first Ac conditioner I used and was bought specifically for the headphone system ,  results of using my Entech AC noise meter the ac in my home is like most , the Ac conditioner a dealer thought I should try on a home trial using the Entech plugged into the conditioner the results were remarkable on the meter showing 0.00 ! crazy good of course however this doesn’t solve everything going on . I think I’ll go back to a passive method .

I am curious if anyone can verify this whom uses a may dac whether what type of Ac box you plug your low draw front end components into .

It’s sounding darn good ,,.


----------



## Tarttett (May 29, 2021)

Palyodgree said:


> I have had my May KTE dac for a short while and had just given it a good listen to in my main system , Lamm mono blocks , Gershman speakers though the new room is far from ideal I did get a bit of a different perspective then using my headphone system.
> But first my long standing reference is live un amplified music having grown up around it and married to a precessional studio vocalist this hobby for me begins and ends with a great recording.
> The enormous talent through out the decades available on vinyl, tape and digital formats is there for the choosing of many , many superb recordings and it is with this that many in this hobby choose to evaluate the performance of said playback components for in the home .
> As I get use to the Holo May KTE Dac I to find timbre and tone with well recorded vocals not where it should be compared with two other dacs i had that did present a more realistic almost living presence with well recorded vocals and hopefully as you mentioned more run in time might loosen this area up to reveal how sensational vocals can really sound , through my main system the vocalist appears out of thin air about 6 feet out front of the speakers with nothing seemly coming from the speakers the sound stage is set in a beautiful three demenional manner , the resolved ambience surrounding the singer is striking that I don’t get so much of this using my headphone system.
> ...


Hi.

I would be interested to know of what those models are for those two DACs, that you had believed had possessed a more realistic timbre, and a more realistic tone, in comparison to the timbre, and to the tone, that the May possesses.


----------



## Palyodgree

Tarttett said:


> Hi.
> 
> I would be interested to know of what those models are for those two DACs, that you had believed had possessed a more realistic timbre, and a more realistic tone, in comparison to the timbre, and to the tone, that the May possesses.


Aqua La Scala 2 and a Audiobyte Hydra Vox however read the post above yours.


----------



## zorilon

I also us


Palyodgree said:


> Zorilon yes I’m very conscious of timbre and tone of human voice and use good recordings to evaluate my system especially with changes then early this morning I thought to dispense with using the AC conditioner and plug the May dac directly into the wall receptacle , I noticed a very nice change with the May dac.
> Definitely the power conditioner had a minor negative effect on the May dac whether this is specifically to the brand I have it’s my first Ac conditioner I used and was bought specifically for the headphone system ,  results of using my Entech AC noise meter the ac in my home is like most , the Ac conditioner a dealer thought I should try on a home trial using the Entech plugged into the conditioner the results were remarkable on the meter showing 0.00 ! crazy good of course however this doesn’t solve everything going on . I think I’ll go back to a passive method .
> 
> I am curious if anyone can verify this whom uses a may dac whether what type of Ac box you plug your low draw front end components into .
> ...


I also plug the power cord directly in the wall. I tried last night to use a power filter that I have but to my ears it didn’t sound different.
I started to believe more and more that Holo May is very revealing on the recording itself. 
I now use the DH Labs Revelation XLR cables (very transparent cable) and it is a strange experience to hear good recordings, very pure, real and clean sound coming from this DAC. But almost all material that is average in quality, sounds a little fatiguing. 
With Holo Spring 2, all average material sounds very good, listenable, and good recordings sound also very very good.
But the experience that Holo May is offering with good recordings is something!


----------



## Palyodgree (May 31, 2021)

zorilon said:


> I also us
> 
> I also plug the power cord directly in the wall. I tried last night to use a power filter that I have but to my ears it didn’t sound different.
> I started to believe more and more that Holo May is very revealing on the recording itself.
> ...


Yes i agree and I’m still discovering more as a system is evolving and what has been effected and what has been revealed . The path I’m on currently now is trying a Furutech passive power distribution with the May dac only ,..Measurements on Ac noise using a Entech Ac noise meter with built in speaker clearly reveal some ugly power and at much worst during times of day of course so as most know clean or cleaner power would definitely benefit

I now know the brand of power conditioner I used with my headphone system definitely has a negative interaction with the Holo May dac though the great thing about this I am not alone with these findings using the Puritan brand of conditioner. Take note I’m not going to sell the Puritan, measured Ac noise is 0.00 on the meter and not one tiny fart out of the speaker of the Entech meter so it works and works exceptionally well .
Of course it is similar to hearing the effects of a lower noise floor, you don’t know the negative sonic effect is there until it’s gone except it doesn’t play well with the Holo dac playback sounds very good however it was being held back ,,

Using The Holo May dac in my main system with no power conditioner nor any other type of audio store bought box with receptacles it only using dedicated lines into a gang box I put in myself I noticed something very different with the May dac from the headphone system , sure it is completely expected a different presentation going to take place with a speaker system however the space presentation of a great live recordings was so much bigger and expansive, a resolved ambience filled in all the spaces , overall there was a across the board improvement with playback....This room I’m temporarily using is not at all suitable however I got a better taste of the Holo May in my main system .

Back upstairs in another room listening with headphones with the May dac plugged direct into the wall , a common and original household receptacle the May dac is much more expansive, micro and macro detail is presented much better so on and so forth , a noticeable across the board improvement apposed to the May dac plugged into the conditioner however going direct into a non dedicated ac receptacle effects the treble region enough to be annoying hence my interests in trying out a passive Ac distribution.

This is my current experience using the Holo May KTE dac ,  with the May dac in the mix of other components that I use playback is sounding even better ,.Sure there is never one solution that benefits everything and everyone however these changes for me at least have me excited.


----------



## xtr4

Great insight. Maybe I should try it myself since I have similar hardware (except the dedicated power from the DB hahaha) but I get the feeling my experience would be slightly different as the wall outlets in my apartment shares with almost all electrical appliances in the household hahaha lazy electricians


----------



## Palyodgree

That’s a tough one JL , we once lived in a high rise in the heart of a big city I used a PS Audio regenerator and farted around with medial grade transformers the exact same devices sold as audio grade transformers without the jacked up prices. I was always sceptical of Ac conditioners but I trust my dealer it just wont get along with the May dac.


----------



## Palyodgree

This worked tremendously well with the Holo Audio dac , well actually this description is understating it ,  I think I’m now hearing all the May dac has to offer now .


----------



## joseph69

Isn't the Spring DAC supposed to support up to 768kHz PCM?


----------



## Baten

joseph69 said:


> Isn't the Spring DAC supposed to support up to 768kHz PCM?



Sure.

1. install driver

2. push directly over WASAPI/ASIO. you can't select it in windows settings that's not how it works

3. on OSX midi control panel goes up to 1536kHz by default, without driver


----------



## joseph69

Baten said:


> Sure.
> 
> 1. install driver
> 
> ...


Thank you for the response.
A friend had sent me over a PGGB file (32/705.6kHz) which I downloaded to my iTunes library, which then transferred over to my Roon library so I could have a listen and compare it to my 16/44.1 file of the same song. I'm running a mid-2012 MacBook Pro via USB directly to my Spring in NOS and have both, the MIDI settings on my Mac set to 32/705.6 and Roon set to 32/705.6 sample rates. When I try to use either music player with the PGGB file, as soon as I press play I lose the signal to my DAC, whereas I can play the file from 44.1 through 384 as well as DSD64 through DSD256 without issue.

What am I missing something here? My friend & I have spent 3 days trying to resolve this issue to no avail and I'd like to compare the files before moving forward with a license. Another strange thing is that the signal path in Roon shows the correct information (see below)  but again, I lose the signal when I press play. I reached out to a thread regarding PGGB files on Audiophile Style and asked if the Spring supports up to 768 (which it's supposed too) and I received *this response* from a member, which really puzzled me? I also reached out to Tim (@bimmer100) but have yet to hear back from him. Any input would be greatly appreciated.





Thank you,
Joseph


----------



## joseph69 (Jun 8, 2021)

PS: Notice in the above post of the signal path snapshot the path icon doesn't have a halo around it (it's just a dot) while the song is playing (supposedly) but as I mentioned, I lose the signal to the DAC as soon as I press play.


----------



## joseph69

Apologies. The signal path in my snapshot is showing a conversion rate of 705.6 to 88.2 which my friend who has been working on this with me just pointed out.


----------



## Baten

joseph69 said:


> Thank you for the response.
> A friend had sent me over a PGGB file (32/705.6kHz) which I downloaded to my iTunes library, which then transferred over to my Roon library so I could have a listen and compare it to my 16/44.1 file of the same song. I'm running a mid-2012 MacBook Pro via USB directly to my Spring in NOS and have both, the MIDI settings on my Mac set to 32/705.6 and Roon set to 32/705.6 sample rates. When I try to use either music player with the PGGB file, as soon as I press play I lose the signal to my DAC, whereas I can play the file from 44.1 through 384 as well as DSD64 through DSD256 without issue.
> 
> What am I missing something here? My friend & I have spent 3 days trying to resolve this issue to no avail and I'd like to compare the files before moving forward with a license. Another strange thing is that the signal path in Roon shows the correct information (see below)  but again, I lose the signal when I press play. I reached out to a thread regarding PGGB files on Audiophile Style and asked if the Spring supports up to 768 (which it's supposed too) and I received *this response* from a member, which really puzzled me? I also reached out to Tim (@bimmer100) but have yet to hear back from him. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
> ...


I don't understand in your link, what is "16fs 24-bit" ? is this some kind of special format?

I no longer own my spring 2 but I could play 768kHz 24-bit and 1536kHz up to 16-bit without stuttering or issues. 1536kHz 24-bit did not work properly for me on OSX, but it did play on Windows.


----------



## joseph69

Yes, it's a new format. Here is the site.
From what I was told over on Audiophile Style 16fs 24-bit is equivelent to 705.6/32.


----------



## intrepidcase

zorilon said:


> I had the Spring 2 KTE and now I have the Holo May KTE. In my system (Susvara and Niimbus US4 amp) the Spring 2 KTE sounded more natural, pleasing with authority bass, perfect midrange and holographic presentation, analog sound.
> 
> The Holo May in my system has a not so great tonality. The midrange and upper midrange is more forward, sounds more Hi-fi timbre, the bass is so accurate that loses the robustness that Spring 2 KTE has. The highs are almost the same.
> 
> ...



Hi @zorilon , just wondering how/if things changed with further burn-in of your May DAC ... 

I recently acquired a May DAC to compare to my Lampizator Amber 3 and I could literally replace the words "Spring 2 KTE" with "Amber 3" above and it would *exactly* match my feelings about the two. So now I am similarly waiting to see if further burn-in will make any difference ...


----------



## Palyodgree

Burn in of the May KTE dac from cold out of the box at 200 hours , 400 plus no real significant changes to write home about with no abrupt swings in performance like I read some experience,….

 One thing I know absolutely is the May is very sensitive to what you plug it into to .
I can say with confidence I bet many owners haven’t heard all of what their Holo Audio dac has to offer .


----------



## intrepidcase

I am going test it again, but I believe I did notice a bit of an improvement using the Sonore OpticalRendu instead of the Allo USBridge signature. Others have said that the USB interface is impervious to upstream USB endpoint/source but not entirely sure about that.


----------



## zorilon

intrepidcase said:


> I am going test it again, but I believe I did notice a bit of an improvement using the Sonore OpticalRendu instead of the Allo USBridge signature. Others have said that the USB interface is impervious to upstream USB endpoint/source but not entirely sure about that.


I am in this fight right now also  . I use the Pi2AES recommended by GoldenOne feed by a Farad power supply and found out that if I turn the PLL off, my Holo May KTE seems to sound better than with the PLL on. It really starts to sound real, but not warmer or smoother. Also, I need to change the silver XLR interconnects with some copper ones to see if that will make a change. After the GoldenOne review, I started thinking that maybe Holo May L2 is a better option for my taste.


----------



## stuck limo

BoogieWoogie said:


> No problem. That's the biggest rave I have seen for the Holo. I think only the Z guy says he didn't notice any difference from a topping to holo eh.



Z doesn't hear the differences between most DACs or amps.


----------



## stuck limo

bobspencer123 said:


> Hey all, does anyone have a way to get a hold of Kitsune HiFi that isn't through the contact me thing on their page. I have sent two messages and gotten no response. I ordered my Spring about a month ago and have heard nothing from them other than one auto response upon initial order. I'm a little concerned about spending so much money and having such a hard time getting a response from them. I certainly understand that the website warns of a 4-6 week wait for your order, but I still don't think replying to an email is too much to ask.



He's buried in support emails right now. He's a one-man shop and he's doing all or most of the Customer Service on his own, so he's definitely not ignoring anyone with emails. He just can't get through them fast enough.


----------



## rmsanger (Jun 20, 2021)

Need your help.... I have the Holo Spring 1 KTE Dac and am looking for my first streamer.  All the reviews and data I’ve ready suggest the best options would be a streamer with an I2S output then AES would be second followed by USD with something like a SU-1 KTE to input into the Spring.   I’d like to avoid the SU-1 if possible and get a dedicated streamer with I2S.

I’ve also been told that I2S is not a universal standard so I could get a streamer with I2S output and the Spring with I2S input may not be compatible.  If so do I need to ask Tim @ Holo which streamers are compatible or do I need to ask the steamer manufacturer their I2S standard they use?

Secondly I’m also struggling to find an affordable streamer with I2S output (plenty have USB, COax, and some even AES) but I2S seems to be a very limited especially at somewhat affordable levels.   Are there any streamers you can suggest to you have used?

I’m looking a few different ones but have no clue (don’t care about Roon btw):

$2k  option -  https://www.cocktailaudio.com/home/sub01.php
$900 option - https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/omnia-s1/?v=7516fd43adaa
$1k option  - https://magnahifi.com/mano-ultra-music-streamer-high-res/


----------



## BoogieWoogie

rmsanger said:


> Need your help.... I have the Holo Spring 1 KTE Dac and am looking for my first streamer.  All the reviews and data I’ve ready suggest the best options would be a streamer with an I2S output then AES would be second followed by USD with something like a SU-1 KTE to input into the Spring.   I’d like to avoid the SU-1 if possible and get a dedicated streamer with I2S.


Pi2AES works great and really gets the holo sound up a notch with i2s .


----------



## eee1111

rmsanger said:


> Need your help.... I have the Holo Spring 1 KTE Dac and am looking for my first streamer.  All the reviews and data I’ve ready suggest the best options would be a streamer with an I2S output then AES would be second followed by USD with something like a SU-1 KTE to input into the Spring.   I’d like to avoid the SU-1 if possible and get a dedicated streamer with I2S.
> 
> I’ve also been told that I2S is not a universal standard so I could get a streamer with I2S output and the Spring with I2S input may not be compatible.  If so do I need to ask Tim @ Holo which streamers are compatible or do I need to ask the steamer manufacturer their I2S standard they use?
> 
> ...


just went through the same thing

retired the spring 1 KTE for a Holo MAY

Focusing only on I2S is a chore.


----------



## stuck limo

3ggerhappy said:


> Purchased mine March last year, here is the spec of the mod from our convo if you havent  asked already. Just based on the spec of the mod, also the kitsune one does not publish any info about their mod. So ive gone for the extreme.



Has anyone compared the real version to this modded version?


----------



## rmsanger

Sherwood said:


> It's not _blatantly_ simple, and there is nothing even approaching a standard.  The most common pinout using an HDMI connector is the one established by PS audio.  Basically, every product that provides i2s out does so in its own way, and uses connections that were not designed for this purpose.  There's a thread on DIYAudio that covers a similar use case, and includes pinout diagrams for anyone interested in trying.
> 
> Using i2s over a cable, rather than directly soldered in the DAC, is a pretty niche thing.  The Singxer SU-1 has dipswitches to modify the pinout, though thankfully the Holo audio uses the PS Audio pinout, which is the most common.
> 
> Audio-GD and the offramp both use the RJ45 method.



Any ideas if this product will work with Holo Spring KTE?

https://apos.audio/collections/brand-spotlight-smsl/products/smsl-sd-9-hifi-network-music-player


----------



## eee1111 (Jun 29, 2021)

Just hooked up holo May and played Alice In Chains unplugged in New York

absolutely amazing

all I got to say to people is clean up your sources. If you are sending music to your expensive dac through a laptop or a Mac mini you are just wasting money. I sent my music through a laptop for years and now got a server with battery supply and  opticalrendu. Optical rendu might be the secret sauce

my god all my headphones became godly once I cleaned up my sources

we are talking about insane leaps in sound quality

I tried out the optical rendu with the spring 1 KTE and loved it. Now the holo May has blown it away. Taking the SU1 out of the chain and just straight USB from Rendu.


----------



## Smallpie

eee1111 said:


> Just hooked up holo May and played Alice In Chains unplugged in New York
> 
> absolutely amazing
> 
> ...


That’s funny because Alice In Chains unplugged was my first album I listened to when I got my spring Dac. No Brother just floored me!


----------



## Delta9K

Order in,  Spring 3 KTE...


----------



## RogerHuston

Delta9K said:


> Order in,  Spring 3 KTE...


First reviews should be interesting.  Interested in a Spring 3 + Bliss to power a SUS.  Curious how close the Spring is to the May.


----------



## rmsanger

The initial feedback is the Spring 3 KTE is 90% of the May and 95% of the performance of the Serene.  If that is indeed the case then for $3500/shipped it's a bargain.  I just don't have the spare change at this point to buy it and prices will be going up shortly.  This pricing is for initial pre-orders and they said expect prices to rise...


----------



## Nicolas Yance

RogerHuston said:


> First reviews should be interesting.  Interested in a Spring 3 + Bliss to power a SUS.  Curious how close the Spring is to the May.


Me too, Im planning on getting a May lvl 1/2 or a spring 3 KET. For the Titanic 2 USB upgrade.


rmsanger said:


> The initial feedback is the Spring 3 KTE is 90% of the May and 95% of the performance of the Serene.  If that is indeed the case then for $3500/shipped it's a bargain.  I just don't have the spare change at this point to buy it and prices will be going up shortly.  This pricing is for initial pre-orders and they said expect prices to rise...


Sadly I'm gonna miss the sale prices. Especially for the May dac which has a great discount.


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 5, 2021)

rmsanger said:


> The initial feedback is the Spring 3 KTE is 90% of the May and 95% of the performance of the Serene.  If that is indeed the case then for $3500/shipped it's a bargain.  I just don't have the spare change at this point to buy it and prices will be going up shortly.  This pricing is for initial pre-orders and they said expect prices to rise...


I did not select the pre-amp option as I will be using this piece in a head-amp signal chain and did not feel I would leverage it. I can apply that savings towards the amplifier budget.


----------



## KenMan85

Really considering the spring 3L2.  Such a decent price for a holo dac


----------



## xtr4

KenMan85 said:


> Really considering the spring 3L2.  Such a decent price for a holo dac


I would recommend to shell for the KTE just for the Titanis USB module. Unless you already have a great DDC, the USB implementation is really good, even direct from PC. The Level 2 doesn't have that.

I own the Holo May, just for reference.


----------



## KenMan85

xtr4 said:


> I would recommend to shell for the KTE just for the Titanis USB module. Unless you already have a great DDC, the USB implementation is really good, even direct from PC. The Level 2 doesn't have that.
> 
> I own the Holo May, just for reference.


The level 2 is a ****ing stretch for me lol.  Why not just buy the titanis usb little add on card. 


Also I'm looking at maybe a Denafrips pontus.  That's more my price Range. Selling my topping D90 plus some savings


----------



## xtr4

KenMan85 said:


> The level 2 is a ****ing stretch for me lol.  Why not just buy the titanis usb little add on card.
> 
> 
> Also I'm looking at maybe a Denafrips pontus.  That's more my price Range. Selling my topping D90 plus some savings


I think the Titanis USB card and the one found on the May and Spring 3 are different modules, correct me if I'm wrong.

Apologies for not considering your affordability capability. Definitely consider and upgrade within your means.


----------



## KenMan85

xtr4 said:


> I think the Titanis USB card and the one found on the May and Spring 3 are different modules, correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Apologies for not considering your affordability capability. Definitely consider and upgrade within your means.


No worries I  not offended 
 I just have a horrible mouth lol. 
I dream of a may kte. Or really a MBS premiere  haha. 

I have a 600 dollar dac, i suspect going from a delta sigma to a l2 spring in and of it self would be fairly significant of a jump for me. 

I do use a streamer with an lps. So while it's not end game, my USB is fairly clean sounding.  Could always be better of course


----------



## koso

duranxv said:


> How do the Holo Spring DAC's compare to Denafrips?  From what I've heard about the specs and measurements of the new Spring 3, it looks like it's going to blow the Denafrips DAC's out of the water in almost every respect.  I was eyeing a Pontus II or Venus II, but I think at this point I might as well wait for the Spring 3.
> 
> @bimmer100  Any update on when the Spring 3 will be released?


I have Denafrips Venus II now and I just have preordered Spring 3 KTE. Will post findings and comparison of the two DACs here. But we all have to wait for the first batch of Spring 3 units.


----------



## KenMan85

Was also going to get pontus 2. 

Ordered spring kte on Friday. 

All in boys!


----------



## KenMan85

xtr4 said:


> I think the Titanis USB card and the one found on the May and Spring 3 are different modules, correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Apologies for not considering your affordability capability. Definitely consider and upgrade within your means.


Well it's ordered kte lol. Well played sir


----------



## m0reilly

Sorry if I have missed mention in this thread, but has anyone upgraded the 1uf caps, and if so, what cap did you chose? I was looking at either the Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oils, or of I can fit them in, one of the Miflex options, unless I can find some Duelunds that don't cost as much as the dac itself...I had to open it up to re solder the i2s connector and saw the Vishays...


----------



## Delta9K

KenMan85 said:


> Was also going to get pontus 2.
> 
> Ordered spring kte on Friday.
> 
> All in boys!


I was going to order  Venus II  but was waiting until they were not in pre order status. Then the Spring 3 was announced and well …


----------



## koso

Delta9K said:


> I was going to order  Venus II  but was waiting until they were not in pre order status. Then the Spring 3 was announced and well …


It is interesting there is no single review comparison between Holo Spring 2 and Denafrips Venus II. I couldn’t find any user who had opportunity to compare the two side by side. It looks I will be first one, because I have Venus II (for about 8 months now) and I have preordered Spring 3 KTE…

Just to be clear. There is nothing wrong with Venus II, it is great DAC. It completely blown away my previous, twice as expensive Simaudio Moon 380D dsd DAC. I just want to try something different, maybe something which is even closer to sound I like.
There is something appealing about Holo Audio design, nice external, but mainly very clever and neat internal design. And allegedly, Spring 3 is even closer to May performance…


----------



## Nostoi

koso said:


> It is interesting there is no single review comparison between Holo Spring 2 and Denafrips Venus II. I couldn’t find any user who had opportunity to compare the two side by side. It looks I will be first one, because I have Venus II (for about 8 months now) and I have preordered Spring 3 KTE…
> 
> Just to be clear. There is nothing wrong with Venus II, it is great DAC. It completely blown away my previous, twice as expensive Simaudio Moon 380D dsd DAC. I just want to try something different, maybe something which is even closer to sound I like.
> There is something appealing about Holo Audio design, nice external, but mainly very clever and neat internal design. And allegedly, Spring 3 is even closer to May performance…


I would be very interested in this comparison myself. 

I am currently demoing the Sonnet Morpheus and enjoying it, but I'm also keeping an eye on the Holo Spring 2 and Venus. Quick question: can you tell me generally between Holo and Denafrips, which DAC is oriented toward a forward/engaging/resolving tuning and which is the smoother and more laidback?


----------



## koso (Jul 15, 2021)

Nostoi said:


> I would be very interested in this comparison myself.
> 
> I am currently demoing the Sonnet Morpheus and enjoying it, but I'm also keeping an eye on the Holo Spring 2 and Venus. Quick question: can you tell me generally between Holo and Denafrips, which DAC is oriented toward a forward/engaging/resolving tuning and which is the smoother and more laidback?


Really just in general (and I guess system dependent too):
forward/engaging/resolving = Denafrips Venus 2
smoother and more laidback= Spring 2

The thing is I personaly prefer smoother performance.
My previous DAC Simaudio Moon 380D dsd (which I still do own) was exactly that - very smooth, silky smooth mids, extremely non fatigue DAC. But when I purchased Denafrips Venus II, almost everything was better with it. More details, better micro dynamics, better punch (more controlled bass), holographic 3D soundstage. Definitely not on analitical side, but little bit less smooth.
And here comes Spring 3. I hope (from what I know about Spring 2 and May performance) that Spring 3 will be somwhere in the middle. Maintaining great detail retrieval and dynamics, but still smooth.
Will post my findings here after Spring 3 arrive.
PS: Sonnet Morpheus was on my list too


----------



## Nostoi

koso said:


> Really just in general (and my opinion):
> forward/engaging/resolving = Denafrips Venus 2
> smoother and more laidback= Spring 2
> 
> ...


Thanks kindly, looks as though the Venus 2 would be more my cup of tea (though to be honest, the dimensions and weight are a put off), as I'm more in the forward/engaging camp. 

I am coming from Hugo 2, so I'm used to a very forward almost aggressive presentation of micro detail, but of course with the Hugo that comes with some harshness in the top end and a certain lack of weight in the lower mids. I'll be keen to hear if the Spring 3 attains this balance of detail and smoothness. 

From my experience, I would also say that he Sonnet Morpheus does strike that balance between being resolving in terms of macro and micro detail but also retaining a smooth (but not rolled off) tonality. I am waiting to try it on AES/Coax mode, as I understand it's slightly held back by its USB port. The timbre and tonality on the Morpheus is peerless, but I want to see what the AES/Coax config does to layering and imaging. 

Thanks again and i look forward to your comparison.


----------



## KenMan85

koso said:


> Really just in general (and I guess system dependent too):
> forward/engaging/resolving = Denafrips Venus 2
> smoother and more laidback= Spring 2
> 
> ...


The waiting is rough


----------



## rmsanger

Nostoi said:


> Thanks kindly, looks as though the Venus 2 would be more my cup of tea (though to be honest, the dimensions and weight are a put off), as I'm more in the forward/engaging camp.
> 
> I am coming from Hugo 2, so I'm used to a very forward almost aggressive presentation of micro detail, but of course with the Hugo that comes with some harshness in the top end and a certain lack of weight in the lower mids. I'll be keen to hear if the Spring 3 attains this balance of detail and smoothness.
> 
> ...


Another R2R option you might want to look into!


----------



## koso

KenMan85 said:


> The waiting is rough


…tell me about it!!!


----------



## KenMan85

koso said:


> …tell me about it!!!


When did you order 
I did a week ago


----------



## koso

KenMan85 said:


> When did you order
> I did a week ago


Two weeks ago


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 15, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> When did you order


Sunday July 4th, 2021...


----------



## KenMan85

I'm the last in line here!  You guys posting your delivery dates and initial impressions?


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 15, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> I'm the last in line here!  You guys posting your delivery dates and initial impressions?


Not wanting to be a downer, but I imagine that it is a little too early yet to expect shipping notifications.

With a 3.5 to 4.5 week lead time I would guess that we won't start getting reports from folks that they have received their shipping notice until around the 2nd week of August at the earliest, and depending where you are in the queue, even longer.

Edit:
Well I’m eating crow. Myself and at least one other in this thread received a shipping notice today. Pretty exciting.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> Not wanting to be a downer, but I imagine that it is a little too early yet to expect shipping notifications. The Kitsune HiFi page states this:
> "These will be first come first serve starting at a lead time (build time) of 3.5-4.5 weeks, shipping may add 4-5 days."
> 
> However, the email I received with order confirmation stated:
> ...


Which level did you order of spring?


----------



## Delta9K

KenMan85 said:


> Which level did you order of spring?


Level 3 (KTE) w/o the preamp module.


----------



## Bassic Needs

Does anyone know if the Spring 3 optional pre-amp module contains additional input/output RCA and XLR connectors? I did not see a screen shot on the product page.


----------



## KenMan85

Bassic Needs said:


> Does anyone know if the Spring 3 optional pre-amp module contains additional input/output RCA and XLR connectors? I did not see a screen shot on the product page.


It's just an included analogue output stage. It's fully internal


----------



## BlakeT (Jul 16, 2021)

I am 100% in the Denafrips camp... happy as a clam (not sure why this is a saying, do clams have feelings?).  My former regular Terminator was *much* better than my Yggy A2 which I really enjoyed, Chord Qutest (will be sold after Holo 3 arrives), Bel Canto and lots of other DAC's not worth mentioning.

Then I upgraded my regular Terminator to Terminator Plus/Gaia for my speaker system (holy **** this is a great combo), then bought a Venus 2/Iris combo for my headphone system. Alvin's customer service is off the charts good, they have two USA-based service centers if ever needed, and in terms of sonics, my Denafrips DAC's just nail it for me (large holographic soundstage, all the details, presented in an organic, non-fatiguing manner).

Well, I wanted a new DAC for my office at work, which currently has my Qutest in service.  I don't have the shelf space for a DDC, DAC, Preamp and Amp and my source is my work PC (not ideal).  Unfortunately, Denafrips doesn't have anything in the current DAC line up that incorporates analog volume control and usb input that is on par with I2S, as I2S is superior on Denafrips DAC's.

I've never heard a Holo, but have always been curious.  The Holo Spring 3 KTE with preamp module (I prefer preamps to direct DAC to amp, and also prefer analog volume control to digital attenuation), eliminates the need for a separate preamp and from reports, the usb input with PLL/Titanis 2.0 (found only in the May 2, May KTE and Spring 3 KTE) does an excellent job at killing source noise and jitter that will surely flow from my work PC and supposedly usb input is sonically on par with I2S input with Titanis 2.0, so no DDC needed.

So, I ordered on 7/4 and got my shipping notice today.  11 days from ordering to shipping, not bad!  Estimated delivery from Hong Kong to arrival here in Salt Lake City is 7/22.

Will do a thorough burning in and then provide comments.


----------



## KenMan85

BlakeT said:


> I am 100% in the Denafrips camp... happy as a clam (not sure why this is a saying, do clams have feelings?).  My former regular Terminator was *much* better than my Yggy A2 which I really enjoyed, Chord Qutest (will be sold after Holo 3 arrives), Bel Canto and lots of other DAC's not worth mentioning.
> 
> Then I upgraded my regular Terminator to Terminator Plus/Gaia for speakers (holy **** this is a great combo), then bought a Venus 2/Iris combo for my headphone system. Alvin's customer service is off the charts good, they have two USA-based service centers if ever needed, and in terms of sonics, my Denafrips DAC's just nail it for me (large holographic soundstage, all the details, presented in an organic, non-fatiguing manner).
> 
> ...


Thats a fast 5 week's lol


----------



## Delta9K

BlakeT said:


> I am 100% in the Denafrips camp... happy as a clam (not sure why this is a saying, do clams have feelings?).  My former regular Terminator was *much* better than my Yggy A2 which I really enjoyed, Chord Qutest (will be sold after Holo 3 arrives), Bel Canto and lots of other DAC's not worth mentioning.
> 
> Then I upgraded my regular Terminator to Terminator Plus/Gaia for speakers (holy **** this is a great combo), then bought a Venus 2/Iris combo for my headphone system. Alvin's customer service is off the charts good, they have two USA-based service centers if ever needed, and in terms of sonics, my Denafrips DAC's just nail it for me (large holographic soundstage, all the details, presented in an organic, non-fatiguing manner).
> 
> ...


Curious did you order your Spring 3 from Tim at Kitsune HiFi? Aka Holo Audio USA? I got a notice today as well from DHL  something from HK JYK supply.  I thought it was a phishing attempt.  I would have thought it would have come from holo audio USA


----------



## BlakeT (Jul 15, 2021)

Delta9K said:


> Curious did you order your Spring 3 from Tim at Kitsune HiFi? Aka Holo Audio USA? I got a notice today as well from DHL  something from HK JYK supply.  I thought it was a phishing attempt.  I would have thought it would have come from holo audio USA


I ordered from Tim at Kitsune.  The DHL notice you received is legit.  Tim just facilitates the order placement.  He doesn't handle or oversee the shipping aspects.


----------



## KenMan85

BlakeT said:


> I ordered from Tim at Kitsune.  The DHL notice you received is legit.  Tim just facilitates the order placement.  He doesn't handle or oversee the shipping aspects.


Super helpful information.  Now I know what to expect as well.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> Not wanting to be a downer, but I imagine that it is a little too early yet to expect shipping notifications.
> 
> With a 3.5 to 4.5 lead time I would guess that we won't start getting reports from folks that they have received their shipping notice until around the 2nd week of August at the earliest, and depending where you are in the queue, even longer.
> 
> ...


When did you order?  As previously we see his build time was only eleven days.


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 16, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> When did you order?  As previously we see his build time was only eleven days.


July 4, 2021 
Yes I was pleasantly surprised. I edited my earlier post while eating my crow. 
Estimated delivery date of 7/22.


----------



## KenMan85

Sounds like the following weekend, we might be getting initial impressions posted here then


----------



## KenMan85

Those that have holo gear,  my tubes are very forward and detailed.  It's that going to counter the whole point of these products,  should I perhaps go back to a more further / laid back tubes?


----------



## Baten

KenMan85 said:


> Those that have holo gear,  my tubes are very forward and detailed.  It's that going to counter the whole point of these products


Don't see why it would it counter the point, no.


----------



## Preface

Today is the last day of sale, so after long period of hesitation, I have pulled the trigger on Spring 3 KTE. It was a bit suddenly, as I was skeptical about silver transformer and premium fuses, and was going to choose Level 2. But... and now I am glad that have chosen KTE.
Currently I use Audio GD R1 for my main setup, hope Spring 3 will not disappoint me. Now patiently waiting for my queue.


----------



## KenMan85

Preface said:


> Today is the last day of sale, so after long period of hesitation, I have pulled the trigger on Spring 3 KTE. It was a bit suddenly, as I was skeptical about silver transformer and premium fuses, and was going to choose Level 2. But... and now I am glad that have chosen KTE.
> Currently I use Audio GD R1 for my main setup, hope Spring 3 will not disappoint me. Now patiently waiting for my queue.


I don't think they'll make a huge difference Imo.  I went for the kte for the USB module tbh.


----------



## Delta9K

KenMan85 said:


> I don't think they'll make a huge difference Imo. I went for the kte for the USB module tbh.


That was exactly my reasoning too, the USB module. Even though I use a "DDC" and use AES/EBU input on the DAC (will also be trying out I2S) I thought it might be nice for flexibility to have the upgraded USB module incase - Also if I were to sell the DAC I assume that (Titanis USB) would be the feature most would be interested in.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> That was exactly my reasoning too, the USB module. Even though I use a "DDC" and use AES/EBU input on the DAC (will also be trying out I2S) I thought it might be nice for flexibility to have the upgraded USB module incase - Also if I were to sell the DAC I assume that (Titanis USB) would be the feature most would be interested in.


Nice headphones.  You got a couple that can really punch.  #fostex


----------



## whirlwind

KenMan85 said:


> Those that have holo gear,  my tubes are very forward and detailed.  It's that going to counter the whole point of these products,  should I perhaps go back to a more further / laid back tubes?


absolutely not


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 19, 2021)

Doorbell rang...


----------



## BlakeT

Mine was delivered to my office today as well.


----------



## KenMan85

Crap that's fast, they deliver from USA? Or is it from HK?


----------



## Delta9K

KenMan85 said:


> Crap that's fast, they deliver from USA? Or is it from HK?


It came from Hong Kong.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> It came from Hong Kong.


Apparently in an sr71 blackbird lol


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> It came from Hong Kong.


Cannot wait for impressions ❤️❤️


----------



## 87mpi

Oh God! I'm waiting for impressions too! I also have pulled the trigger on Spring 3 KTE!


----------



## Bassic Needs

@Delta9K @BlakeT any first impressions on the Spring 3?


----------



## BlakeT (Jul 21, 2021)

Unfortunately I haven't been to the office the last two days, so my Spring KTE is still in its unopened box sitting on my office floor.

I also have a new PS Audio P3 Power Plant regenerator that arrived on the same day as the Spring, which is a new variable in my office system so it might take a bit to triangulate the contributions of the Spring and P3.

EDIT:  I might try to pop down to the office this evening to plug everything in, so at least I can start the burn in process.


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 21, 2021)

Bassic Needs said:


> any first impressions on the Spring 3?


I’ve only put around 4 hours listening time through the Spring 3, primarily listening to individual tracks of different genre and sample rates. To me it is still a little rough around the edges and needs more time to settle in. With that said, it is engaging with an abundance of detail that pulled me into the music and I dare say, the room it was recorded in.

I wish I had more to offer but “life” has been getting in the way and consuming my time this week. As the device gets more time to settle in, and I have an opportunity to listen properly I’ll chime back in.

Spoiler: I don’t imagine that you’ll be disappointed, as good as it sounded to me in the brief time I’ve had with it so far.

Edit: I do have one quirky observation and it may be something in my setup or, my unit. It takes much longer to "Lock" when changing sample rates than any other piece of gear I've used. I had to change the delay in roon to 3000ms in order to allow sufficient time for it to lock without cutting off the first bits of the next track with a different sample rate.

roon -> xspdif 2 (AES/EBU) -> Spring 3 KTE
I have not tried loading the holo USB driver and connecting via USB nor have I tried using the I2S from the Matrix X-Spdif either. I am in NOS my firmware version is 1.0 and I assume PLL is on but I have not entered the "setup" menu to confirm yet.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> I’ve only put around 4 hours listening time through the Spring 3, primarily listening to individual tracks of different genre and sample rates. To me it is still a little rough around the edges and needs more time to settle in. With that said, it is engaging with an abundance of detail that pulled me into the music and I dare say, the room it was recorded in.
> 
> I wish I had more to offer but “life” has been getting in the way and consuming my time this week. As the device gets more time to settle in, and I have an opportunity to listen properly I’ll chime back in.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info.  Are you just leaving it on and'  playing' to burn it in?


----------



## Delta9K

KenMan85 said:


> Thanks for the info.  Are you just leaving it on and'  playing' to burn it in?


That four hours (now about 6) is just pure play time while I'm actively listening. I've been putting it into Stand by when I've finished listening. But I'm going to leave it on for for a few days. I'm thinking that standby, though it keeps the power on internally, may not be doing much for the resistor ladder; aka not counting for break in time. I don't know?


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> That four hours (now about 6) is just pure play time while I'm actively listening. I've been putting it into Stand by when I've finished listening. But I'm going to leave it on for for a few days. I'm thinking that standby, though it keeps the power on internally, may not be doing much for the resistor ladder; aka not counting for break in time. I don't know?


Standby is effectively off from what I've read. 
Leave it on. And just leave the amplifier off. It needs about 3 to 4 hundred hours burn in. 

How's the seperation and sound stage on that dac


----------



## Delta9K

KenMan85 said:


> Standby is effectively off from what I've read.
> Leave it on. And just leave the amplifier off. It needs about 3 to 4 hundred hours burn in.
> 
> How's the seperation and sound stage on that dac


Cool thanks for the info and I'll fire up a playlist on repeat and let it run.

Separation and layering is out standing. The black background that others have commented is true. I was impressed with my soekris dac1541 but the Spring 3 is another level impressive, really allows you to hear all the instruments distinctly and dynamically. The stage is wide with a forward focus I feel about 3-4 rows back vs right up front and there is nice height to it as well. I haven't had a chance to listen with all my phones yet but I am guessing that I am going to be in for a treat when I break out the HE1000 V2.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> Cool thanks for the info and I'll fire up a playlist on repeat and let it run.
> 
> Separation and layering is out standing. The black background that others have commented is true. I was impressed with my soekris dac1541 but the Spring 3 is another level impressive, really allows you to hear all the instruments distinctly and dynamically. The stage is wide with a forward focus I feel about 3-4 rows back vs right up front and there is nice height to it as well. I haven't had a chance to listen with all my phones yet but I am guessing that I am going to be in for a treat when I break out the HE1000 V2.


As an Arya owner I'm excited for the stage and seperation


----------



## Baten

KenMan85 said:


> Standby is effectively off from what I've read.



That... can't be true?


----------



## KenMan85

Baten said:


> That... can't be true?


It's an ultra low power state.  Effectively off is not the same as literally off 😀. 

But yeah basically the internals are just waiting to be used but you're not actually burning them in at that point.


----------



## Baten

KenMan85 said:


> It's an ultra low power state.  Effectively off is not the same as literally off 😀.
> 
> But yeah basically the internals are just waiting to be used but you're not actually burning them in at that point.



from my time with spring2, that what was the standby was designed for though, to keep everything optimal to resume playing in its best state. rather than to keep it in full power consumption mode


----------



## whirlwind

Baten said:


> from my time with spring2, that what was the standby was designed for though, to keep everything optimal to resume playing in its best state. rather than to keep it in full power consumption mode


This is my understanding also.


----------



## KenMan85

We're talking specifically about burning in though. Not regular usage case


----------



## KenMan85

Any sonic changes in spring 2 vs 3
? For those who owned previous year models


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 22, 2021)

The manual for the Spring 3 is now available. I downloaded it from the Kitsune site. The stand-by state and what is kept at the ready for optimization is still open for interpretation. I am reading it as powered-off, but ready to enter into configuration mode if needed buy pressing menu and power together. I think that's the portion that remains partially powered. Check Page 5 of the manual for entering Configuration Mode.


----------



## BlakeT (Jul 22, 2021)

Whew!  Made it to the office, unpacked my Spring and PS Audio P3, ended up deciding to move a bunch office furniture around to better accommodate my audio system which opened a whole new can of worms..... 4 hours later after moving a bunch stuff... wired it all up and success!  The units powered up and survived the shipping experience.  Downloaded the owner's manual and driver.  Went to my YouTube right/left speaker channel and polarity/phase test video.... all good.  Music is flowing.  I'm tired.

A few quickly snapped pics, because, why not?


----------



## mammal

BlakeT said:


> Whew!  Made it to the office, unpacked my Spring and PS Audio P3, ended up deciding to move a bunch office furniture around to better accommodate my audio system which opened a whole new can of worms..... hours later wired it all up and success!  The units powered up and survived the shipping experience.  Downloaded the owner's manual and driver.  Went to my YouTube right/left speaker channel and polarity/phase test video.... all good.  Music is flowing.  I'm tired.
> 
> A few quickly snapped pics, because, why not?


Beautiful pics, what's the audio stand model you have there? Thanks!


----------



## BlakeT

mammal said:


> Beautiful pics, what's the audio stand model you have there? Thanks!


 Thanks, the stand is just the cheap and cheerful Pangea Vulcan, bought at the last minute when I realized my existing cabinet spaces were already too full.


----------



## mammal

BlakeT said:


> Thanks, the stand is just the cheap and cheerful Pangea Vulcan, bought at the last minute when I realized my existing cabinet spaces were already too full.


Thank you! Sadly, only ships to USA


----------



## BlakeT

Ah, that stinks.  I bought mine on Amazon as I needed it quickly. I must say I am super impressed with how well the stand was packed and the quality, given the low price.


----------



## Delta9K

The Spring 3 is beginning to settle in. Tonal density has improved significantly, and is evening out.  It never sounded "bad"  but it is now really starting to show itself - very impressive. Bass authority, impact and quantity are the standouts today as most improved. Bass quality was always there but I was getting nervous as it felt a bit lean for my tastes - with tonight's listening session though, it appears that is no longer a concern. We're going to be OK


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> The Spring 3 is beginning to settle in. Tonal density has improved significantly, and is evening out.  It never sounded "bad"  but it is now really starting to show itself - very impressive. Bass authority, impact and quantity are the standouts today as most improved. Bass quality was always there but I was getting nervous as it felt a bit lean for my tastes - with tonight's listening session though, it appears that is no longer a concern. We're going to be OK


How many hours of active time is it in now? 6 listening plus over night burning in?


----------



## eee1111

id like to see a MAY vs Spring 3 showdown.


----------



## KenMan85

eee1111 said:


> id like to see a MAY vs Spring 3 showdown.


Spring isn't jm the same league from what I've heard from a person who has both


----------



## eee1111

KenMan85 said:


> Spring isn't jm the same league from what I've heard from a person who has both


I have the may and compared spring 1 kte. Its a large difference all around. The Spring 1 KTE still holds up if you're going to use I2S


----------



## Nicolas Yance

But how much is the difference? Is it worth going the extra money for the May?


----------



## KenMan85

Nicolas Yance said:


> But how much is the difference? Is it worth going the extra money for the May?


If you got it, it's significantly better. The spring is like a chord hugo level 

The May is like Dave plus m scaler. 

Its not subtle.


----------



## Delta9K

KenMan85 said:


> How many hours of active time is it in now? 6 listening plus over night burning in?


I’m @ 38 hours of powered on music playback / break in.


----------



## KenMan85

Du


koso said:


> I have Denafrips Venus II now and I just have preordered Spring 3 KTE. Will post findings and comparison of the two DACs here. But we all have to wait for the first batch of Spring 3 units.


Any follow up?


----------



## koso

KenMan85 said:


> Du
> 
> Any follow up?


Not yet. I am still waiting for my Spring 3. Apparently Magna Hifi (Europe distributor) is second in the row in the Holo supply chain


----------



## KenMan85

koso said:


> Not yet. I am still waiting for my Spring 3. Apparently Magna Hifi (Europe distributor) is second in the row in the Holo supply chain


Yes I too am waiting for mine.


----------



## Delta9K

I have to admit it came down to Spring 3 or the Venus II as to which DAC I ordered. I am still very much interested in the Venus II and any comparisons between the two.


----------



## koso (Jul 24, 2021)

Delta9K said:


> I have to admit it came down to Spring 3 or the Venus II as to which DAC I ordered. I am still very much interested in the Venus II and any comparisons between the two.


I will definitely let (all) you know after I will get mine.


----------



## KenMan85

What was shipping cost for you guys?


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 26, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> What was shipping cost for you guys?


I purchased via Kitsune HiFi (Holo Audio USA)
$180 USD - Its a flat rate for shipping. If outside the US you need to contact.
The Shipper was DHL Express and they were really quick. I got my noticed that it shipped on 7/15 - it was on my desk warming up by the afternoon of 7/19.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> I purchased via Kitsune HiFi (Holo Audio USA)
> $180 USD - Its a flat rate for shipping. If outside the US you need to contact.


Rough, I'm in Canada, also used them. 
Shipping plus duties at boarder will be a tough pill for sure


----------



## BlakeT (Jul 27, 2021)

Came back to the office today, Spring 3 has been on for almost 5 days.  I normally put a playlist on repeat throughout a DAC burn in process but my Tidal playlist got hung up at some point after I left the office, so there wasn't constant music, just powered on.  Also, my PS Audio P3 Regenerator was obviously powered on and burning in so that skews things a bit.  I will say the Spring 3 actually sounded pretty decent cold out of the box (unlike my former Yggy A2 which sounded broken when it was brand new out of the box but improved greatly as it burned in).

Sonics are definitely better now (how much is down to Spring vs P3 burn-in, I'll never know).  MUCH blacker backgrounds so sound stage/detail is more obvious and fleshed out.  More obvious instrumental separation.  This is my first Holo DAC and I can see now why some say it is a smooth sounding DAC, but not smooth in the sense of being rolled off or lacking detail.  I am listening in NOS.  It is a different presentation than my Qutest (which is powered by an Uptone LPS-1.2) which sounds more analytical, whereas the Spring 3 sounds more organic/natural.

Using this analogy:  Qutest has more of a clean and tidy solid state amp sound, whereas Spring has a more fleshed out sound like a neutral tube amp (in a good way).   Qutest isn't embarrassed by the Spring, and if your system is too warm-blooded, it is possible some people might find it to be a better match?  But for me, in my setup and my preferences, Spring is unquestionably the superior DAC.

How it would compare to my Venus 2?  Way too early to say.  Venus 2 is a very, very good DAC.  Eventually, I might bring the Venus 2 to the office for a comparison.

Anyway, just a few early thoughts.


----------



## KenMan85

I think orders mass ship out on Friday.  Which will mark 3 weeks order date. 

My plan is to burn in both pcm and dsd ladders by using my local playlists. 

DSD of RAM, and Hotel California 

Then probably dua lipa and Metallica pcm

I want music that hits down low all the way to high


----------



## BlakeT

KenMan85 said:


> Those that have holo gear,  my tubes are very forward and detailed.  It's that going to counter the whole point of these products,  should I perhaps go back to a more further / laid back tubes?



I ran a quad of your '75 Holy Grails for a while.  I suspect your will find the Spring 3 to offer a nice balance as I think they would be complimentary.


----------



## KenMan85

They're a very 


BlakeT said:


> I ran a quad of your '75 Holy Grails for a while.  I suspect your will find the Spring 3 to offer a nice balance as I think they would be complimentary.


Very detailed and vocal forward tubes.  I really like how they push guitar detail to the forefront


----------



## 87mpi (Jul 28, 2021)

BlakeT said:


> I ran a quad of your '75 Holy Grails for a while.  I suspect your will find the Spring 3 to offer a nice balance as I think they would be complimentary.


How would you describe those tubes? For a while I was interested, but the opinions on the net are quite varied, they never convinced me enough to buy them blindly, also due to their absurd price... I also tried the famous siemens E88CC A0, the Siemens E188CC A0, but in the end I chose a Valvo E188CC Red label quartet for my preamp Audio Research LS5 and they sound really wonderful.


----------



## KenMan85

87mpi said:


> How would you describe those tubes? For a while I was interested, but the opinions on the net are quite varied, they never convinced me enough to buy them in a poke. I also tried the famous siemens E88CC A0, the Siemens E188CC A0, but in the end I chose a Valvo E188CC Red label quartet for my preamp Audio Research LS5 and they sound really wonderful.


Good tube.  Not warm or cold.  Very detailed. Forward vocals.  With heavy vocal range detail.  Hearing singers breathe in. 

They pull back round guitar to the front of stage as well. 
Bass quality and quantity is very good.  I don't find I siblant in The high end using my hifiman Arya


----------



## Delta9K (Jul 28, 2021)

I have a questions for owners with more experience and time with Holo DACs. This is my first Holo DAC (Spring 3 KTE).

With the PLL enabled I get a delay with locking when the sample rate changes. As a result the first 3-3.5 seconds of the track is lost. This delay with locking when the sample rate changes only occurs when using a digital input other than USB. I have in my chain an Matrix Audio X-Spdif 2, where I use the AES out from that into the DAC, and now that I have a DAC with I2S, I have been trying that too. Both result in a delay. If I disable the PLL then locking is instant no matter which input I use.

I emailed Tim @ Kitsune and he explained this is normal. I am just curious of others experiences, and also wondering if it is some compatibility issue with my DDC, and if so, would an SU-2 or SU-6 from Singxer be compatible aka no delay with locking when PLL is enabled on the DAC? Or, is it just the case and it is what it is? Tim suggested most people just set a hardware sync delay in their player, and I can do this in roon - I added a 4000ms delay. But what if I decide ever that roon isn't for me, then what? He also suggested I could just disable the PLL or just use the USB input. Am I overthinking the use of I2S/or AES? Does the modern Titanis USB implementation in the Holo Spring KTE and level 2 & 3 Mays negate the need to use DDC and I2S?

Any thoughts ?


----------



## Baten

Delta9K said:


> would an SU-2 or SU-6 from Singxer be compatible aka no delay with locking when PLL is enabled on the DAC? Or, is it just the case and it is what it is? Tim suggested most people just set a hardware sync delay in their player, and I can do this in roon - I added a 4000ms delay. But what if I decide ever that roon isn't for me, then what? He also suggested I could just disable the PLL or just use the USB input. Am I overthinking the use of I2S/or AES? Does the modern Titanis USB implementation in the Holo Spring KTE and level 2 & 3 Mays negate the need to use DDC and I2S?
> 
> Any thoughts ?



SU-2/SU-6 will have the same locking. You can just disable PLL or use USB input, indeed.
IMO the Titanus USB negates the need for any external boxes yeah


----------



## dleblanc343

BlakeT said:


>


Nice Raidho’s! Superb sounding tweeters.

I have D1’s and a Holo KTE go figure 😉


----------



## krude (Jul 28, 2021)

Evaluating May L2 vs Chord Hugo 2 running via Soloist 3x into 1266 tc and Susvara.

FIndings so far:
- Hugo 2 is remarkable for the money and form factor
- Hugo 2 has slightly bigger, taller, wider stage with sound that is more etched
- Hugo 2 has more emphasis on upper mids / lower trebble and creates more air
- Running May in NOS upsampled to 768K May is not far, if at all behind in technical terms, but it removes the sheen Hugo 2 has traces of. 
- May renders plucked strings in a more convicing way.
- May renders acoustic sounds in general in a more convicing way.
- May renders most things in a more convicing way, to a point where I found myself looking outside the window a few times because I thought something is knocking somewhere. On Hugo 2 I would know this is coming from the recording, on May it was totally convicing. I had a few What moments like that on May already.

Having said all of that, you will hear the benefit of May over Hugo 2 on 8 out of 10 tracks where those timbral characteristics are apparent. On 2 out of 10 Hugo 2 can sound better due to more defined edges etc.

I would say that especially for acoustic music May is excellent.
May provides the technical performance of a state of the art digital dac with r2r technology and natural timbre.

You can get the tone of Hugo 2 closer to May by using more aggressive roll off filters, but it will start sounding more muddy than the May that delivers it's tonality while preserving the detail.

However, it's also remarkable that a portable, battery operated digital dac can sound so close in emulation of an analogue device.

I'm not sure if I'll be leaving May or staying with Hugo 2 (maybe going to TT2). I think I'll leave the May, but it is close ... but it is it close enough.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> I have a questions for owners with more experience and time with Holo DACs. This is my first Holo DAC (Spring 3 KTE).
> 
> With the PLL enabled I get a delay with locking when the sample rate changes. As a result the first 3-3.5 seconds of the track is lost. This delay with locking when the sample rate changes only occurs when using a digital input other than USB. I have in my chain an Matrix Audio X-Spdif 2, where I use the AES out from that into the DAC, and now that I have a DAC with I2S, I have been trying that too. Both result in a delay. If I disable the PLL then locking is instant no matter which input I use.
> 
> ...


Discussed with Tim, made it seem no need for I²S or for my allo usbridge signature player. 
That the USB was on exceptional on the Titanis 2


----------



## BlakeT (Jul 28, 2021)

I was able to spend more time with the Spring 3 KTE in "critical listening" mode.   This is an exceptional DAC! 

If it keeps getting better with more burn-in (6 days in now), that is just icing on the cake but I am a very satisfied owner as it stands.  Those of you still waiting for your Spring 3 are in for a real treat.  The sound is so natural and life-like.  Excellent clarity, tone/timbre is amazing, sound staging, image placement and layering are terrific as well. 

Job well done Holo!

EDIT: I am using USB input, after all, that was the main reason I went with the KTE version, in order to get the Titanis 2.0 usb module.


----------



## KenMan85

BlakeT said:


> I was able to spend more time with the Spring 3 KTE in "critical listening" mode.   This is an exceptional DAC!
> 
> If it keeps getting better with more burn-in (6 days in now), that is just icing on the cake but I am a very satisfied owner as it stands.  Those of you still waiting for your Spring 3 are in for a real treat.  The sound is so natural and life-like.  Excellent clarity, tone/timbre is amazing, sound staging, image placement and layering are terrific as well.
> 
> Job well done Holo!


Next up vs venus lol.  How's the bass slam?  I heard shockingly hard on the spring


----------



## BlakeT

KenMan85 said:


> Next up vs venus lol.  How's the bass slam?  I heard shockingly hard on the spring



Can't say too much about bass since I use subwoofers... so bass quantity/quality is never an issue.


----------



## KenMan85

Day 21 of waiting, starting to question if I really ordered anything lol.  The days are long and the nights Soo cold 😂


----------



## bilboda

Having a hard time with the Spring3 KTE, a hard time differentiating it from the the Sonnet Morpheus, that is. I have it set up with Roon, both using USB and a switch, either balanced or single ended depending on the amp. I could only get wasapi with the Morpheus, asio with the Holo. At the end of the day, if this continues, the Holo does add DSD and increased HQplayer options but soundwise, it is really, really close. Maybe I need a May dac, sell them both and find a good preamp.


----------



## KenMan85

bilboda said:


> Having a hard time with the Spring3 KTE, a hard time differentiating it from the the Sonnet Morpheus, that is. I have it set up with Roon, both using USB and a switch, either balanced or single ended depending on the amp. I could only get wasapi with the Morpheus, asio with the Holo. At the end of the day, if this continues, the Holo does add DSD and increased HQplayer options but soundwise, it is really, really close. Maybe I need a May dac, sell them both and find a good preamp.


Could be worse.  A kte costs less so it sounding about the same is a solid.  Both are highly regarded new dacs. Win win for you


----------



## bobspencer123

I have had my spring 3 for about 3 weeks now. I got the level 1. This is my current setup: music collection on a intel nuc running roon server and hqplayer -> hqplayer upsampling to 768 using poly-sinc-ext2, LNS15 -> UltrarRndu with CI audio LPSU -> Spring 3 (USB) -> Decware Torii (unbalanced RCA) -> Reference 3A MM DeCapo (BE).

My previous dac was an Audio GD R2R 11. Although the Audio GD is also a R2R dac, obviously the Spring is quite a bit more money. 

I'm not going to try to write some eloquent review other than to say that the Spring sounds more like music. I primarily listen to vinyl. I have, what I consider, to be a pretty nice analog setup. I love the way a good record sounds. A well mastered and pressed record can bring you into the room with the musicians. Well, the Spring gets pretty darn close to that with digital. Well mastered digital music through the Spring just sounds right. I can listen for hours on end with no fatigue. Although the Audio GD was also non-fatiguing and quite enjoyable it didn't keep my as engaged as music does through the spring.  Finally, I should say, that even not so great mastered digital music is still very enjoyable. I have heard that the Holo Audio May is the more accurate dac ... and you get your music warts and all. Well the Spring may not be that accurate --- and that could be a good thing given the diversity of the music that I listen too. Not everything I listen to was recorded or mastered well and through the Spring everything generally sounds "Good" and like I said before like music.


----------



## KenMan85

bobspencer123 said:


> I have had my spring 3 for about 3 weeks now. I got the level 1. This is my current setup: music collection on a intel nuc running roon server and hqplayer -> hqplayer upsampling to 768 using poly-sinc-ext2, LNS15 -> UltrarRndu with CI audio LPSU -> Spring 3 (USB) -> Decware Torii (unbalanced RCA) -> Reference 3A MM DeCapo (BE).
> 
> My previous dac was an Audio GD R2R 11. Although the Audio GD is also a R2R dac, obviously the Spring is quite a bit more money.
> 
> I'm not going to try to write some eloquent review other than to say that the Spring sounds more like music. I primarily listen to vinyl. I have, what I consider, to be a pretty nice analog setup. I love the way a good record sounds. A well mastered and pressed record can bring you into the room with the musicians. Well, the Spring gets pretty darn close to that with digital. Well mastered digital music through the Spring just sounds right. I can listen for hours on end with no fatigue. Although the Audio GD was also non-fatiguing and quite enjoyable it didn't keep my as engaged as music does through the spring.  Finally, I should say, that even not so great mastered digital music is still very enjoyable. I have heard that the Holo Audio May is the more accurate dac ... and you get your music warts and all. Well the Spring may not be that accurate --- and that could be a good thing given the diversity of the music that I listen too. Not everything I listen to was recorded or mastered well and through the Spring everything generally sounds "Good" and like I said before like music.


Thanks for that 👍🏼 awesome to hear that the bottom line is it is pure enjoyable to listen too.  I'm at 4 weeks since my order date, hope to ship soon. They're crazy busy.


----------



## Delta9K

KenMan85 said:


> Thanks for that 👍🏼 awesome to hear that the bottom line is it is pure enjoyable to listen too.  I'm at 4 weeks since my order date, hope to ship soon. They're crazy busy.


I was just getting ready to ask if there has been any updates for yours. Hang in there, it will be worth it.


----------



## Delta9K

bobspencer123 said:


> Well mastered digital music through the Spring just sounds right. I can listen for hours on end with no fatigue. Although the Audio GD was also non-fatiguing and quite enjoyable it didn't keep my as engaged as music does through the spring.


+1 Spring 3
Effortless, Engaging, everything is there without being forced down your ear canals - an overall elegant presentation.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> I was just getting ready to ask if there has been any updates for yours. Hang in there, it will be worth it.


Man I almost thought they forgot about me lol. I can't wait to hear the change from my AK dac to this one.  How's yours treating you?  Lovely with hifiman?


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 6, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> Man I almost thought they forgot about me lol. I can't wait to hear the change from my AK dac to this one.  How's yours treating you?  Lovely with hifiman?


The HEKv2 has never sounded better.  All of the sets I have though have seen an uplift, and I am enjoying each of them more.


----------



## koso

My Spring 3 KTE finally arrived today! Will leave it ON for few days (maybe even for two weeks, as I'm going on vacation next week) for burn in. After that I will post some initial comparison between Venus II and Spring 3.
I am going to use I2S (coming from Denafrips Gaia DDC) as my primary source.
Have anyone here experimented with PLL setting? Is there any advantages to turn PLL off?


----------



## KenMan85

koso said:


> My Spring 3 KTE finally arrived today! Will leave it ON for few days (maybe even for two weeks, as I'm going on vacation next week) for burn in. After that I will post some initial comparison between Venus II and Spring 3.
> I am going to use I2S (coming from Denafrips Gaia DDC) as my primary source.
> Have anyone here experimented with PLL setting? Is there any advantages to turn PLL off?


Congrats. How long was your wait?


----------



## koso

KenMan85 said:


> Congrats. How long was your wait?


5 weeks


----------



## KenMan85

koso said:


> 5 weeks


OK thanks. Gives me hope lol


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 9, 2021)

koso said:


> I am going to use I2S (coming from Denafrips Gaia DDC) as my primary source.
> Have anyone here experimented with PLL setting? Is there any advantages to turn PLL off?


I found that when using I2S (actually any digital input other than USB) that there was @3-3.5 second delay for the PLL locking to engage. This delay only occurred when the sample rate changed, and the result was that the first 3-5 seconds of the track to be cutoff. If I turned PLL off then there was no delay in locking to a new sample rate. I contacted Tim at Kitsune HiFi and he advised me that it is normal (the delay to lock when PLL engaged and sample rate changes). My options were to set a hardware sync delay in my playback software, or to Turn the PLL off.) I was able set set a delay via roon of 3000ms and that corrected the delay from cutting off the first part of a new track with a different sample rate. I also turned off PLL and that accomplished the same thing - no delay to lock onto new sample rate.

What I found with turning PLL off - There was no detectable (to me) loss of sound quality with PLL disabled.
I ended up actually just removing my DDC from the chain, and instead used the Titanis 2.0 USB input with PLL enabled, as that is what Tim recommended. Again, there was/is no loss of SQ that I can detect and I feel better personally having the PLL enabled. Tim told me the Titanis USB is very very good and it is set as the Primary for the PLL and makes it the fastest to lock.
Since I am not doing any up sampling, or have DSD content I decided for me this is OK (Use USB).

I could post my email conversation with Tim, but its a lengthy thread and probably not appropriate to do so if quoting more than a sentence or 2. I would say if you have concerns reach out to Tim at Kitsune or whomever you bought your Holo from and seek their input. I know Tim was very quick to respond and patient with all the questions I bombarded him with.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> I found that when using I2S (actually any digital input other than USB) that there was @3-3.5 second delay for the PLL locking to engage. This delay only occurred when the sample rate changed, and the result was that the first 3-5 seconds of the track to be cutoff. If I turned PLL off then there was no delay in locking to a new sample rate. I contacted Tim at Kitsune HiFi and he advised me that it is normal (the delay to lock when PLL engaged and sample rate changes). My options were to set a hardware sync delay in my playback software, or to Turn the PLL off.) I was able set set a delay via roon of 3000ms and that corrected the delay from cutting off the first part of a new track with a different sample rate. I also turned off PLL and that accomplished the same thing - no delay to lock onto new sample rate.
> 
> What I found with turning PLL off - There was no detectable (to me) loss of sound quality with PLL disabled.
> I ended up actually just removing my DDC from the chain, and instead used the Titanis 2.0 USB input with PLL enabled, as that is what Tim recommended. Again, there was/is no loss of SQ that I can detect and I feel better personally having the PLL enabled. Tim told me the Titanis USB is very very good and it is set as the Primary for the PLL and makes it the fastest to lock.
> ...


Solid information thanks!


----------



## koso

Delta9K said:


> I found that when using I2S (actually any digital input other than USB) that there was @3-3.5 second delay for the PLL locking to engage. This delay only occurred when the sample rate changed, and the result was that the first 3-5 seconds of the track to be cutoff. If I turned PLL off then there was no delay in locking to a new sample rate. I contacted Tim at Kitsune HiFi and he advised me that it is normal (the delay to lock when PLL engaged and sample rate changes). My options were to set a hardware sync delay in my playback software, or to Turn the PLL off.) I was able set set a delay via roon of 3000ms and that corrected the delay from cutting off the first part of a new track with a different sample rate. I also turned off PLL and that accomplished the same thing - no delay to lock onto new sample rate.
> 
> What I found with turning PLL off - There was no detectable (to me) loss of sound quality with PLL disabled.
> I ended up actually just removing my DDC from the chain, and instead used the Titanis 2.0 USB input with PLL enabled, as that is what Tim recommended. Again, there was/is no loss of SQ that I can detect and I feel better personally having the PLL enabled. Tim told me the Titanis USB is very very good and it is set as the Primary for the PLL and makes it the fastest to lock.
> ...


Thanks, you actually saved me a lot of time (for writing an email), because I just realized the same “issue”. I have measured the delay and it is indeed arround 3 seconds on all inputs except for USB. I was just deciding what is better (turn PLL off and stay with DDC or go straight to USB). Unfortunately my Gaia is not compatible with any of Spring I2S pinouts, so I ended with Matrix X-SPDIF 2 and I2S input plus 3 second delay (for sample rate change) on my Aurender streamer.

Thats my setup for now.
By the way, how do you have your X-SPDIF 2 configured? As far as I know X-SPDIF 2 should be compatible with default Spring 3 “Holo” pinout, but I am not sure how to configure small switches on the back of X-SPDIF 2.

After burn in I will test several configs in my setup for sound quality, all with PLL ON and OFF:
1. Gaia DDC via AES
2. X-SPDIF 2 via I2S
3. Direct via USB


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 9, 2021)

koso said:


> By the way, how do you have your X-SPDIF 2 configured? As far as I know X-SPDIF 2 should be compatible with default Spring 3 “Holo” pinout, but I am not sure how to configure small switches on the back of X-SPDIF 2.


I had the switches in the X-SPDIF 2 all set to off position (default) since I was not working with any DSD files or doing upsampling. The Spring 3 was set Holo. Tim suggested that for the xspdif 2 to leave the xspdif 2 in psuadio mode (the default for the x-spdif 2, I believe) and set the DAC for Alt 2.

Here is one of the replies received from Tim -

_"The delay of the pll is normal and does not affect latency. So if watching a movie, the audio and video will be in perfect sync.
What the pll can cause is a delay for locking onto the signal. So the first couple seconds are silent. If this is a no go for you, just turn it off."

I would personally recommend the KTE spring3 with enhanced usb module and use direct usb input. USB has the smallest delay with pll as it runs in master mode. But you can try your spdif2 which should be compatible in psaudio mode and setting dac for alt2.
But be sure to use shore i2s cable for best sound. Like 0.5M is fine. Imo the su2 or kte su2 does a bit better but back to my original recommendation… just try the usb module in the spring3, assuming it’s kte model it’s absolutely superb!!!

Other uses leave pll on and use playback software like jriver and add hardware synchronization delay of 4sec or so and alleviates the issue. Instead the music won’t start til the dac syncs."_


----------



## ARCXENOS

Hi, I was hoping someone with a Spring 3 know whether if it has compatibility with the Denafrips Iris i2s output.

On the fence on getting the level 2, if it works I might just cop a Spring 3 unit


----------



## BlakeT

I think someone asked earlier if Holo 3 was immune to cable upgrades.  Typically I start with generic stuff and work up from there.  I just swapped out the generic power cord for an audio grade model (haven't experimented with different usb cables yet).  

Results...   in my opinion, *definitely* yes, in my system power cords do make a difference with Holo 3.  Bummer.  Ymmv.


----------



## BlakeT (Aug 16, 2021)

ARCXENOS said:


> Hi, I was hoping someone with a Spring 3 know whether if it has compatibility with the Denafrips Iris i2s output.
> 
> On the fence on getting the level 2, if it works I might just cop a Spring 3 unit



It looks like @koso reported above that unfortunately, Denafrips DDC's (when using I2S output) are not compatible with Holo DAC's I2S input, despite the ability to adjust the I2S pinout settings.  Of course, the other Denafrips DDC output/Holo DAC input connections are completely fine and compatible so this is only an issue when using I2S.


----------



## koso (Aug 16, 2021)

BlakeT said:


> It looks like @koso reported above that unfortunately, Denafrips DDC's (when using I2S output) are not compatible with Holo DAC's I2S input, despite the ability to adjust the I2S pinout settings.  Of course, the other Denafrips DDC output/Holo DAC input connections are completely fine and compatible so this is only an issue when using I2S.


Yes, that is the case with my Gaia. Holo Spring has only four possible i2s pinout settings, none compatible with Gaia. Denafrips DACs has far more i2s settings (8 in total). Note that Gaia DDC initially didn't have i2s pinout feature. However newer firmware for Gaia and Hermes bring this pinout feature to DDC as well. But unfortunately, for some unknown reason, on my Gaia unit I am unable to flash new firmware via standard procedure. So anyone on current firmware (Gaia and Hermes) would be able adjust i2s pinout to match Spring i2s settings on DDC side via i2s pinout feature.
I am right in the middle of resolving firmware issue process with Alvin, so I hope I will be able to report compatibility in my own setup soon.


----------



## KenMan85 (Aug 16, 2021)

Update on my spring 3 kte order

New usb modules apparently coming out, so I'll be in the first batch of those it sounds like. 

Should be a week or so before they're in stock


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 16, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> New usb modules apparently coming out


Wondering if there are concerns with the first batch of USB modules or, if these are just an upgrade, and if so damnit. I guess that would be the first tax levied for being an early adopter and getting a KTE from the first batch...

Happy for you though - nice to have something to make the wait more worthwhile.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> Wondering if there are concerns with the first batch of USB modules or, if these are just an upgrade, and if so damnit. I guess that would be the first tax levied for being an early adopter and getting a KTE from the first batch...
> 
> Happy for you though - nice to have something to make the wait more worthwhile.


They are to fix issue with amd and pcm 1.5mhz.


----------



## Delta9K

KenMan85 said:


> They are to fix issue with amd and pcm 1.5mhz.


Thanks for the info.
So, it is a potential scenario, for myself  - I run AMD procs and boards, but I don't oversample or work anything beyond 24/192. I'll email Tim.

Was this posted online somewhere, or you did you find out through your back channel conversations?


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> Thanks for the info.
> So, it is a potential scenario, for myself  - I run AMD procs and boards, but I don't oversample or work anything beyond 24/192. I'll email Tim.
> 
> Was this posted online somewhere, or you did you find out through your back channel conversations?


Tim replied to my email, my spring is delayed because they ran out of the current Titanis upgrade usb modules.


----------



## KenMan85

Hmm no new reviews in a while it seems.  Not much delivers happening maybe


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 19, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> Hmm no new reviews in a while it seems.  Not much delivers happening maybe


Yes, I think its odd too that there are not more folks reporting in with good or bad impressions. Also, there was at least one popular reviewer who had a unit in before launch and was going to drop a review soon after - nothing but crickets from there too, it's weird.
I know I'm being slow to get some more in-depth impressions posted but, I replaced several components in the source chain pretty much back-to-back, and now have too many "new" things to sort out before being able to present thoughts other than the highly subjective with no detail  - "Best DAC I have owned so far"...

Spoiler: I do think it's the best DAC I have owned so far but it is not the perfect DAC nor my last, but it is here to stay for a while and has top positioning in my primary setup.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> Yes, I think its odd too that there are not more folks reporting in with good or bad impressions. Also, there was at least one popular reviewer who had a unit in before launch and was going to drop a review soon after - nothing but crickets from there too, it's weird.
> I know I'm being slow to get some more in-depth impressions posted but, I replaced several components in the source chain pretty much back-to-back, and now have too many "new" things to sort out before being able to present thoughts other than the highly subjective with no detail  - "Best DAC I have owned so far"...
> 
> Spoiler: I do think it's the best DAC I have owned so far but it is not the perfect DAC nor my last, but it is here to stay for a while and has top positioning in my primary setup.


I forget, which were your previous dacs


----------



## barbz127

Delta9K said:


> not the perfect DAC


Any chance you would mind sharing your thoughts on the spring 3 kte, what it does well and what it doesn't?


----------



## Adnan Firoze

Delta9K said:


> Yes, I think its odd too that there are not more folks reporting in with good or bad impressions. Also, there was at least one popular reviewer who had a unit in before launch and was going to drop a review soon after - nothing but crickets from there too, it's weird.
> I know I'm being slow to get some more in-depth impressions posted but, I replaced several components in the source chain pretty much back-to-back, and now have too many "new" things to sort out before being able to present thoughts other than the highly subjective with no detail  - "Best DAC I have owned so far"...
> 
> Spoiler: I do think it's the best DAC I have owned so far but it is not the perfect DAC nor my last, but it is here to stay for a while and has top positioning in my primary setup.


Golden said on Facebook that his review unit is stellar. I'm on the waiting boat as well btw.


----------



## KenMan85

Adnan Firoze said:


> Golden said on Facebook that his review unit is stellar. I'm on the waiting boat as well btw.


Been waiting for cam to post his video review for over a month lol


----------



## Sense

Lack of reviews really makes it too much of a blind buy for me at the moment.


----------



## axsnyder

I'm in the market for a new DAC to sit next to the Qutest paired with a McIntosh MHA200 and the Audeze LCD-R package (Schiit Jot A).  Was wanting something a little different than the Qutest and was thinking the Holo May would be the one.  Then I started reading up on the Spring 3 fully loaded and am now torn.  The <$4K price is more appealing than the $6K I'd spend on the May.  

There isn't much out there comparing the two.  Any insight is appreciated.  _Posting on a wing and a prayer._


----------



## whirlwind

Not sure about the Spring 3 I am wanting to hear some impressions also....but to be honest the Spring one level 3 is so good I don't know why I am even interested.


----------



## KenMan85

axsnyder said:


> I'm in the market for a new DAC to sit next to the Qutest paired with a McIntosh MHA200 and the Audeze LCD-R package (Schiit Jot A).  Was wanting something a little different than the Qutest and was thinking the Holo May would be the one.  Then I started reading up on the Spring 3 fully loaded and am now torn.  The <$4K price is more appealing than the $6K I'd spend on the May.
> 
> There isn't much out there comparing the two.  Any insight is appreciated.  _Posting on a wing and a prayer._


 Hoping goldensounds review compares the two of them


----------



## Sense

axsnyder said:


> I'm in the market for a new DAC to sit next to the Qutest paired with a McIntosh MHA200 and the Audeze LCD-R package (Schiit Jot A).  Was wanting something a little different than the Qutest and was thinking the Holo May would be the one.  Then I started reading up on the Spring 3 fully loaded and am now torn.  The <$4K price is more appealing than the $6K I'd spend on the May.
> 
> There isn't much out there comparing the two.  Any insight is appreciated.  _Posting on a wing and a prayer._


Funny...I was thinking about a May or a Hugo TT2...now I am thinking maybe a Sprint 3 (Level 3) and a Qutest. 
So you have another amp in your chain for the LCD-R? How does that work?


----------



## Zachik

Any thoughts / comparisons to the Lampizator Amber 3 DAC?
I recall someone mentioned a while ago he would compare the 2 DACs once he receives his Spring 3...


----------



## axsnyder

Sense said:


> Funny...I was thinking about a May or a Hugo TT2...now I am thinking maybe a Sprint 3 (Level 3) and a Qutest.
> So you have another amp in your chain for the LCD-R? How does that work?


I have tried the Topping D90 with the LCD-R. It doesn’t suck. Nothing sucks with the LCD-R. But I prefer the Qutest for most of what I listen to.

I’ve been meaning to try some other things around the house and office. 3 young kids + long work days zaps the experimenting spirit by the time I can pour a whiskey and listen to tunes.


----------



## KenMan85

axsnyder said:


> I have tried the Topping D90 with the LCD-R. It doesn’t suck. Nothing sucks with the LCD-R. But I prefer the Qutest for most of what I listen to.
> 
> I’ve been meaning to try some other things around the house and office. 3 young kids + long work days zaps the experimenting spirit by the time I can pour a whiskey and listen to tunes.


Yeah as I'm coming from the topping D90 I am a little bit curious what to expect I don't have very much experience with dac changes.  I hope it's clearly noticeable


----------



## Greg121986

Has anyone else heard of the potential change to the USB input card as mentioned a few pages back? I am very concerned. I'm now at 5 weeks since my KTE was ordered which is actually fine. I want the proper revision of the DAC including the latest USB input card. I'd like to know for sure if there has been a running change, though. They did this on the first gen Spring KTE which I also preordered and I ended up with the older gen USB card. I'll be very annoyed to have the same thing occur again.


----------



## KenMan85

Greg121986 said:


> Has anyone else heard of the potential change to the USB input card as mentioned a few pages back? I am very concerned. I'm now at 5 weeks since my KTE was ordered which is actually fine. I want the proper revision of the DAC including the latest USB input card. I'd like to know for sure if there has been a running change, though. They did this on the first gen Spring KTE which I also preordered and I ended up with the older gen USB card. I'll be very annoyed to have the same thing occur again.


They're out of the original Titanis 2 usb cards.  They don't make that version anymore, so if yours is not shipped, it will be the updated module. 

Tomorrow is 6 weeks since I ordered but will be probably another week to go as they're waiting on parts


----------



## bilboda

As far as the usb, I think it provides better performance for non intel based chipsets. I'm on Intel so it doesn't bother me. 

Can't give a review but I can provide some impressions. I use HQPlayer up sampling. I upsampled pcm with the Sonnet Morpheus and to DSD 256 with the Spring 3 KTE, using an ec modulator. Originally, nos pcm only, I had a very difficult time telling the 2 dacs apart. I had usb to both from the same pc and Roon zones set up with both connections. I could switch at will and they both proved highly enjoyable, I was almost disappointed. 

 Optical from my tv and movie pc was a clear step up with the Holo, no question about it, movie and tv dialog has always been a problem. Just too much jitter, Like a lot of noise that you don't notice until it's gone, a lot of the noise from every other dac that I have tried is gone. Some movies will always be a problem. 

Tenet on HBO Max, dialogue is such a bitch and it is integral in following the plot and it's complex ideas. It has improved with the Holo but still requires more volume. The subsequent raise of all the volume is not as jarring as before like a car crash for example.

Newrecordday has a review of the May where he notes that the May takes a low volume light tambourine from a certain song and how it defines the space and dimensions of the room, so long as your speakers are set up correctly. 
Well, using HQPlayer's many options for filters and modulators and ditherers, I was able to get that tambourine to actually sound like a tambourine and not a pocket of coins or a cymbal of some kind, I got that from the Morpheus. 
With the Spring 3 KTE, I did get some sense of the room, the back wall but perhaps not the ceiling so much, it seemed topless, side wall was also established and I was using the more complex DSD ec filters to do this. 
So this single track is symbolic, if nothing else of a distinct difference in the 2 dacs that will rarely show itself in normal listening. I will say, in general, I like it best with DSD 256 and ec modulators.. I have to put a 3 sec delay in Roon as that's how long it takes my pc to process the more computationally heavy DSD upsampling that I prefer.

Outside of the obvious difference in the optical connection. I had to look very very hard to detect any differences in usb musical performance. Using HQPlayer for me is key.
Oh, and I can't hear much above 8000 khz, so take that into consideration, maybe it's the tinnitus masking but I can't discount age related hearing loss either.

The Holo has a unique driver thing going on. The Sonnett driver sits in the hardware section under sound controllers in Windows 10 device manager. You might have it set to optical but the driver will always be present in the list of devices.
The Holo creates it's own listing in the device manager, apart from anything else. If you aren't on the usb input on the dac, it disappears from the device manager.
For me with HQPlayer, that means it loses track of the dac, even when I switch back to the usb input. My solution was to download vnc to my ipad based remote and open and close HQplayer settings, basically resetting the output in the software. I am getting used to it. It only presents itself when I  decide to listen to music again.


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 22, 2021)

Adnan Firoze said:


> Golden said on Facebook that his review unit is stellar. I'm on the waiting boat as well btw.


Now wondering if he is waiting to get an updated USB module, and then re-test. It would make sense that he doesn't want to review a product that has had a change so quickly.

_Hangs tinfoil hat back on rack_


----------



## barbz127

Delta9K said:


> Now wondering if he is waiting to get an updated USB module, and then re-test. It would make sense that he doesn't want to review a product that has had a change so quickly.
> 
> _Hangs tinfoil hat back on rack_


I beleive he has been unwell and AP analyzer video is taking preference


----------



## Greg121986

I'm all AMD Ryzen gen 3 including my AMD Epyc server which is where I run my primary music source with Linux and MPD. So if there are issues with AMD and USB (This is completely absurd) I will be ultra disappointed!


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 22, 2021)

I run a roon core, but I have a PC (AMD R9 Gen3) next to my main headphone setup running the roon endpoint. I guess if it ever came down to it I could build out a NUC to use as an endpoint.


----------



## KenMan85

Greg121986 said:


> I'm all AMD Ryzen gen 3 including my AMD Epyc server which is where I run my primary music source with Linux and MPD. So if there are issues with AMD and USB (This is completely absurd) I will be ultra disappointed!


You just need the other firmware as stated previously


----------



## BlakeT (Aug 19, 2021)

We need to be clear here- is this a firmware issue, or a hardware issue?

I could be wrong but I thought this was simply a *firmware* issue.  I can't see any official mention of the Titanis 2.0 USB module itself being changed or updated.  Where did that info come from?


----------



## KenMan85

Ok so quotes from my emaila with Tim.


And the usb module we are talking about is NEW and far better than the one you are familiar with.

t. We have run out of enhanced usb modules and they have been superseded by the new usb module processing we created to replace it. Far better performing module with better support for high resolution content. Dsd1024 and pcm1.536mhz is achievable on most any platform now, as before it was only available with intel chipsets and some other chipsets but amd and many other chipsets had issues where dsd512 was maximum possible. Or pcm 768k.
The new usb module is more of a perfect match for the dac too. Better measurements and improved sound quality. And no extra charge this this module. However we are to be delaying orders getting the upgrade as we are a small waiting for pie shipment of the completed boards. Should be about a week.It’s superseding the original enhanced usb module found in kte may, L2 May and kte spring3


----------



## BlakeT (Aug 21, 2021)

EDIT: Holo/Kitsune resolved the situation, so post deleted.


----------



## Sense

BlakeT said:


> Thanks @KenMan85.
> 
> Well, that freaking sucks for those of us that got early units.  Not cool at all Holo!  Complete bull.
> 
> If they are not updating early units for free, this will be my last Holo product.


You did pay a good bit less though 😀

maybe they can update it for people?


----------



## BlakeT

*Lots* of people got the Spring 3 at the introductory price that are still waiting for it and will be getting the new usb module.  The intro pricing has ZERO to do with whether or not it included the new usb module.


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 22, 2021)

I have not heard from Tim yet so, too early to get all bent


----------



## BlakeT (Aug 21, 2021)

EDIT:  Holo/Kitsune resolved the situation, so post deleted.


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 22, 2021)

Always better to assume positive intent.


----------



## eee1111

KenMan85 said:


> And the usb module we are talking about is NEW and far better than the one you are familiar with.
> 
> t. We have run out of enhanced usb modules and they have been superseded by the new usb module processing we created to replace it. Far better performing module with better support for high resolution content. Dsd1024 and pcm1.536mhz is achievable on most any platform now, as before it was only available with intel chipsets and some other chipsets but amd and many other chipsets had issues where dsd512 was maximum possible. Or pcm 768k.
> The new usb module is more of a perfect match for the dac too. Better measurements and improved sound quality. And no extra charge this this module. However we are to be delaying orders getting the upgrade as we are a small waiting for pie shipment of the completed boards. Should be about a week.It’s superseding the original enhanced usb module found in kte may, L2 May and kte spring3


Some interesting wording in there

and the site has no updates about a new USB

they’re essentially not even advertising this upgraded usb

Pretty awful on their part


----------



## KenMan85

I really doubt that the new module it'll make any difference that's audible anyways the current one is already beyond the threshold of human hearing I think Tim was just up telling me to keep me calm with how long my order was taking


----------



## axsnyder

eee1111 said:


> Some interesting wording in there
> 
> and the site has no updates about a new USB
> 
> ...



They strike me more as engineers than marketers.  I'd rather buy a good product than feel good about something mediocre.


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 22, 2021)

*EDIT: PLEASE NOTE*
I spoke with Tim (Kitsune/HoloAudio USA) directly over the phone. I will say that from our conversation, it's quite apparent that there has been misinterpretation and too much of reading between the lines of information posted on the Spring3 KTE and new USB modules that sadly, myself may have helped to propagate. During our 40 minute conversation it was clear that that both Tim and Jeff care very much about audio, and even more about their products and customers. I am not going to elaborate on the details because I do not want to risk misquoting, or posting text that could be taken out of context to further fuel unnecessary debate.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> It is not just about sound quality - The DAC sounds fantastic. This issue of concern is the compatibility with AMD and being able to get beyond 768 and DSD 512. This is not fixed in any firmware if you are on AMD. Therefore, a new module that supports both Intel and AMD is much desired for myself, at least. Considering one reason I bought this DAC was to explore up sampling and DSD at higher rates.
> 
> *"*better support for high resolution content. Dsd1024 and pcm1.536mhz is achievable on most any platform now, *as before it was only available with intel chipsets* and some other chipsets* but amd and many other chipsets had issues where dsd512 was maximum possible. Or pcm 768k"*
> 
> I am bound by the limits above in bold ATM, so the statement in quotes, does have an impact.


Fair point D9


----------



## BlakeT (Aug 22, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> I really doubt that the new module it'll make any difference that's audible anyways the current one is already beyond the threshold of human hearing I think Tim was just up telling me to keep me calm with how long my order was taking



EDIT: Subsequent to this post, Holo/Kitsune rolled out a usb module upgrade program, so post deleted.


----------



## Adnan Firoze (Aug 20, 2021)

BlakeT said:


> You may be right, but personally I am guessing the other way.  If you are right, then that means Tim's comments about the new usb module are just pure marketing fluff (reposting Tim's email below with some points of emphasis).  I'll give Tim the benefit of doubt and assume what he wrote in his email to you is true and the new usb module will have noticeable sonic improvements and not just better measurements.
> 
> DAC manufacturers have been telling us for years USB issues have been solved, but that is not the case.  Those of us that have bought, tried, sold numerous usb DAC's over the years can attest to that.  Schiit, Holo and many other DAC manufacturers are constantly trying to improve USB.
> 
> ...



These are valid points but this also reminds me of a precedent. The iBasso DX300 DAP initially shipped with their Amp 11 mk1. Then they ran out of the components to make those amp modules. They started selling with the Amp11 mk2 and there had been speculations about how they were doing it just because they ran out of the "good stuff" and putting in subpar stuff - which clearly was not the case since I bought the Amp11 mk2 (the updated version). Prior to buying I didn't even know which one I was getting. There were talks of larger/smaller soundstage on both modules in the respective thread on headfi. In hindsight, no one cares anymore because they were so similar. I will say this - established companies know better to leave customers behind. Having this discourse with customers at least is a good sign and I respect that. However, having ordered on Aug 1, keep forgetting if I really ordered it or not because of the wait. haha.


----------



## eee1111 (Aug 20, 2021)

BlakeT said:


> You may be right, but personally I am guessing the other way.  If you are right, then that means Tim's comments about the new usb module are just pure marketing fluff (reposting Tim's email below with some points of emphasis).  I'll give Tim the benefit of doubt and assume what he wrote in his email to you is true and the new usb module will have noticeable sonic improvements and not just better measurements.
> 
> DAC manufacturers have been telling us for years USB issues have been solved, but that is not the case.  Those of us that have bought, tried, sold numerous usb DAC's over the years can attest to that.  Schiit, Holo and many other DAC manufacturers are constantly trying to improve USB.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a used car salesman
It really is odd they’re handling it like this

and there is nothing on the website so that makes me think they’re unloading what is left of the usb parts in their possession
All around odd. Those who bought the spring ended up finding out that they were getting worse parts or up selling due to resources. It will be funny to see the description of the spring change on the store


----------



## GoldenOne (Aug 20, 2021)

Delta9K said:


> Yes, I think its odd too that there are not more folks reporting in with good or bad impressions. Also, there was at least one popular reviewer who had a unit in before launch and was going to drop a review soon after - nothing but crickets from there too, it's weird.
> I know I'm being slow to get some more in-depth impressions posted but, I replaced several components in the source chain pretty much back-to-back, and now have too many "new" things to sort out before being able to present thoughts other than the highly subjective with no detail  - "Best DAC I have owned so far"...
> 
> Spoiler: I do think it's the best DAC I have owned so far but it is not the perfect DAC nor my last, but it is here to stay for a while and has top positioning in my primary setup.


If you're meaning me then the delayed review is unfortunately just cause RL has gotten in the way a fair bit the last few weeks. Vaccine knocked me out for a few days, heatwave made filming basically impossible, and have had to spend time on actual work stuff (the reviews are not my job, in fact I make 0 personal income from them, it's just my hobby so unfortunately that does mean that I can't pump out videos as fast as some others).
First APx555 video with a bit of a talk about objectivism vs subjectivism is up on patreon though, and will be on youtube in a few days.

The spring 3 review will be up as soon as possible, and will be very positive. It's a truly spectacular product and for the money it's absolutely killer.

In terms of the USB module stuff, this unit has the same module as my may, I've not tried the new one, though from what I understand it's not really meant to be a SQ upgrade, it's just meant to get around the 1.536mhz on AMD limitation. So if you have an intel PC, or don't use HQPlayer, then it won't really bring you any benefit anyway.
Personally I use a small fanless intel mini-PC that I got on amazon for ~£150 as my source which means 1.536mhz works flawlessly (mele mini PC with HQP OS for those wondering, and the ifi iGalvanic also can go inbetween if desired).
I understand some people's frustration at not having the newer module, but honestly, product revisions, tweaks, upgrades etc happen all the time with just about any brand. Hell Audeze released the new LCD-X revision about a week after my review went up. Aryas got a revision shortly after I bought them, the AHB2 has had some firmware tweaks to allow things like turning off the eco-shutoff which mine does not have.
When you buy a product, you're buying the product described. Just cause something changes or even if a v2 of whatever you bought comes out the next week, it doesn't suddenly make your product any different/worse than it was when you bought it.

It is not economical in any way for a manufacturer to give all owners a replacement or upgrade when a minor change is made. If this sort of service were expected, the base cost of the item would need to be vastly higher to cover the costs of doing this in advance. There is no free lunch and it needs to be paid for somehow.
This is a workaround for an issue that affects only HQPlayer users with AMD pcs. They haven't released a new dac...

(Also I'm pretty sure you can email them and purchase the upgrade if you have a current KTE. And for those saying that it should be free....that module isn't free to make. The only other option they'd have would be not to offer any new module at all which would be silly.
It'd be a bit odd to say that manufacturers shouldn't ever fix issues or make upgrades to their products)


----------



## KenMan85

GoldenOne said:


> If you're meaning me then the delayed review is unfortunately just cause RL has gotten in the way a fair bit the last few weeks. Vaccine knocked me out for a few days, heatwave made filming basically impossible, and have had to spend time on actual work stuff (the reviews are not my job, in fact I make 0 personal income from them, it's just my hobby so unfortunately that does mean that I can't pump out videos as fast as some others)
> 
> Though the review will be up as soon as possible, and will be very positive. It's a truly spectacular product.
> 
> ...


Glad you're up on your feet.  I look forward to to your tear down n review.  Do you plan a vs may section.  I figure you're getting 70 percent of May 1?


----------



## GoldenOne (Aug 20, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> Glad you're up on your feet.  I look forward to to your tear down n review.  Do you plan a vs may section.  I figure you're getting 70 percent of May 1?


Yeah there will be some comparisons to May.
Basically the performance you get from spring 3 is similar to May, but there is a noticeable difference.
May is definitely the better DAC, but it's not worlds apart or anything. There are some sound signature differences though which I'll go into in the video.

If the May L2 fits in your budget, you should go for that. But at just over 2k, the spring 3 is crazy good value and leaves stuff like the qutest, ares 2, x26 pro in the dust.


It's nice cause the pricing is such that the May makes sense if you can stretch to it, but the spring 3 is amazing for the money. You really can't go wrong with either.
Oh...and having a proper integrated preamp is absolutely fantastic


----------



## KenMan85

GoldenOne said:


> Yeah there will be some comparisons to May.
> Basically the performance you get from spring 3 is similar to May, but there is a noticeable difference.
> May is definitely the better DAC, but it's not worlds apart or anything. There are some sound signature differences though which I'll go into in the video.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the little preview I really appreciate your review style it seems like you have a mix of objective and subjective and I can appreciate that sound especially in music is definitely a bit of both


----------



## GoldenOne

KenMan85 said:


> Thanks for the little preview I really appreciate your review style it seems like you have a mix of objective and subjective and I can appreciate that sound especially in music is definitely a bit of both


Absolutely , and I discuss objective vs subjective in some length in the next video


----------



## KenMan85

GoldenOne said:


> Absolutely , and I discuss objective vs subjective in some length in the next video


Well whatever the product that's coming out for review. I'll check it out


----------



## Zachik

First, @GoldenOne - I really like your no-BS reviews!  Only wished you had more time for more of them... 



GoldenOne said:


> The spring 3 review will be up as soon as possible, and will be very positive. It's a truly spectacular product and for the money it's absolutely killer.


I cannot wait, since I am seriously considering upgrading my DAC, and 2 of the likely candidate are May L2 or Spring 3 KTE. I definitely want that special USB (if I go with Holo Audio)!!



GoldenOne said:


> There are some sound signature differences though which I'll go into in the video.


One comment I read from someone who upgraded from Spring 2 to May is that the Spring 2 sounded more musical / organic, whereas the May sounded much better technically but not as much fun or engaging!  Unless you answered that in your upcoming Spring 3 review (and comparison to May) - can you write a couple lines on that subject?
For reference, currently I have a Lampizator Amber 3 which is definitely very musical and NOT analytical or sterile at all. 



GoldenOne said:


> Oh...and having a proper integrated preamp is absolutely fantastic


I have a question for you on that one - I was debating whether or not to get the integrated preamp (if I end up going with the Spring 3). In your opinion, if the DAC is ONLY used with headphones amps - do I really need the preamp? What "problem" would it solve for me?  ONLY advantage I see is the ability to change volume without reaching my hand to the volume knob of the headphone amp (5 feet away from me)...

Thanks in advance, and again - I REALLY love your reviews!!


----------



## Adnan Firoze (Aug 20, 2021)

Zachik said:


> I have a question for you on that one - I was debating whether or not to get the integrated preamp (if I end up going with the Spring 3). In your opinion, if the DAC is ONLY used with headphones amps - do I really need the preamp? What "problem" would it solve for me? ONLY advantage I see is the ability to change volume without reaching my hand to the volume knob of the headphone amp (5 feet away from me)...



@Zachik : I know you asked @GoldenOne but let me share why I would want a preamp. If it was only a headphone amp that I can reach by hand or by remote then I would not want that option. However, I plan on getting a Susvara sometime down the road and possibly hook up a speaker amp (and they usually do not have volume controls and uses line level power). In that scenario, without the preamp, the headphones would be blown (or at least many of them would). Hence, the chain would require a preamp in this case.

Currently I am running a Hugo2->Burson Soloist 3X and both of them have remotes to control the volume. What I have done is, I set the amp (Soloist) to line-level out bypassing its volume control (a feature not many amps have) and am controlling the volume of the system from the remote or the marble of the Hugo2. The balancing act of two volume pots is very problematic to me. I could have done the opposite by using line level from Hugo2 and use the remote of the Soloist amp too. It's just a choice I made since even at line level out Hugo2 keeps the volume marble active.

TL;DR: In my view, if you are using a headphone amp solely, you don't need a preamp. The description I wrote above about my case is very specific.


----------



## Zachik

Adnan Firoze said:


> @Zachik : I know you asked @GoldenOne but let me share why I would want a preamp.


Much appreciated! Despite asking @GoldenOne - I would appreciate answers from others as well, of course 
Both to the preamp question, but also opinions on Spring 3 vs. May... Reviews of Spring 3 and comparisons to May are extremely rare (and few)...


----------



## KenMan85

Zachik said:


> Much appreciated! Despite asking @GoldenOne - I would appreciate answers from others as well, of course
> Both to the preamp question, but also opinions on Spring 3 vs. May... Reviews of Spring 3 and comparisons to May are extremely rare (and few)...


I've not seen any spring comparisons and only like 2 initial impressions (here) 

I plan on getting a Loki max and a power amp one day, but I'll use my current head amp as a pre / volume control when that time comes


----------



## Delta9K

GoldenOne said:


> If you're meaning me then the delayed review is unfortunately just cause RL has gotten in the way a fair bit the last few weeks. Vaccine knocked me out for a few days, heatwave made filming basically impossible, and have had to spend time on actual work stuff


Thank you for the reply and update. 
I get RL and did not intend to come across as pressuring you and yep, the second shot did a number on me also. Not looking forward to the #3 booster..
Hope things normalize soon, Cheers.


----------



## BlakeT (Aug 22, 2021)

EDIT: Subsequent to this post, Holo/Kitsune rolled out a usb module upgrade program so post deleted.


----------



## BlakeT (Aug 22, 2021)

I just received an email from Kitsune about the usb module situation.  They are providing a free or very minimal cost (depending on the date of purchase) upgrade to the new usb module for those Spring 3 KTE owners that already have their DAC, but would like the new module.

Nice to see them step up to the plate and provide a solution.  Thanks to Holo and Kitsune for taking care of their customers.

EDIT: May L2 and May L3 owners can also upgrade to the new module.


----------



## KenMan85

Now we gotta wait for koso to post his review and vs Denafreps


----------



## Tubewin

BlakeT said:


> I just received an email from Kitsune about the usb module situation.  They are providing a free or very minimal cost (depending on the date of purchase) upgrade to the new usb module for those Spring 3 KTE owners that already have their DAC, but would like the new module.
> 
> Nice to see them step up to the plate and provide a solution.  Thanks to Holo and Kitsune for taking care of their customers.
> 
> EDIT: May L2 and May L3 owners can also upgrade to the new module.


So, if I ordered 4 days ago, will I be receiving the new usb module? I had ordered the May KTE.


----------



## KenMan85

Tubewin said:


> So, if I ordered 4 days ago, will I be receiving the new usb module? I had ordered the May KTE.


Yes.


----------



## kyorakun

I recently bought a spring 3 KTE and replaced my pontus 2. To compare the two, the spring 3 is less warm and noticeably more resolving and dynamic. It sounds more natural and has significantly better layering and separation. It has a slightly deeper stage and is equally as wide in comparison. The Spring 3 KTE does something quite special in its staging in that it allows instruments/vocalists to "breathe" in its own stage. It also has 0 latency issues. I upgraded from the pontus 2 due to latency and intermittent distortion issues.


----------



## koso

kyorakun said:


> I upgraded from the pontus 2 due to latency and intermittent distortion issues.


Can you please explain what latency issues are you having with Pontus? I have never had anything like that with Venus II. And regarding distortion issues, I had some, but it was instantly solved via software update. For now I have no single issue with Venus II, so therefore I am curious about yours.


----------



## GoldenOne (Aug 23, 2021)

koso said:


> Can you please explain what latency issues are you having with Pontus? I have never had anything like that with Venus II. And regarding distortion issues, I had some, but it was instantly solved via software update. For now I have no single issue with Venus II, so therefore I am curious about yours.


All the denafrips dacs have quite significant latency due most likely to how the buffering and DSP is done.
The delay is not constant though.
The delay is 'set' when you first establish a connection. I saw it as low as 20ms and as high as 200ms.
Whenever you disconnect/reconnect or switch inputs the delay is reset and randomised. Might have been 50ms before, now it could be 150ms, 28ms, anything.

For music, this is not an issue, no worries if your music starts playing or pauses a fifth of a second later than when you clicked the button. But for movies, games etc, it unfortunately means that the denafrips dacs aren't ideal cause the audio will be delayed/desynced


----------



## koso

GoldenOne said:


> All the denafrips dacs have quite significant latency due most likely to how the buffering and DSP is done.
> The delay is not constant though.
> The delay is 'set' when you first establish a connection. I saw it as low as 20ms and as high as 200ms.
> Whenever you disconnect/reconnect or switch inputs the delay is reset and randomised. Might have been 50ms before, now it could be 150ms, 28ms, anything.
> ...


Thanks for explaining, I understand now.


----------



## zima500

Damn, I had no idea about this latency issue. I primarily use my audio system for gaming and this really caught me off guard.
Someone posted on the drop website that the terminator has half the delay compared to the ares, but still is an issue.

Placed an order a few days ago for the Terminator II and hopefully I can cancel.


----------



## zima500

Is the "0 latency" confirmed for the Holo May/Spring3? If so that is a major positive and will make Holo my definite choice.


----------



## GoldenOne

zima500 said:


> Is the "0 latency" confirmed for the Holo May/Spring3? If so that is a major positive and will make Holo my definite choice.


I checked latency on may with PLL on, it's 0.7ms, so absolutely no worries


----------



## bilboda

been using optical in my Spring3 KTE for movies, Netflix, etc and confirm that latency is not an issue, also the pll is da bomb, audio is just so much better with these varying streams and what I had taken for shoddy audio production turns out to be not so bad after, all


----------



## Zachik

bilboda said:


> been using optical in my Spring3 KTE for movies, Netflix, etc and confirm that latency is not an issue, also the pll is da bomb, audio is just so much better with these varying streams and what I had taken for shoddy audio production turns out to be not so bad after, all


How does it compare to your previous DAC (that I see is on the classifieds now)?


----------



## thecrow

Zachik said:


> How does it compare to your previous DAC (that I see is on the classifieds now)?


Curious to know too @bilboda 

as have been considering the holo audio (may) and the sonnet morpheus.
I have enjoyed the metrum hex for quite a while but wondering what these other nos options might bring


----------



## bilboda (Aug 25, 2021)

For music, it was difficult to tell them apart straight NOS. Using Roon, I grouped them together and could instantly switch via the usb connections.
It was frustrating because I was looking for something I could use to make a decision  and it just wasn't apparent.
Adding HQ Player, I began to hear differences. I upsampled to dsd256 with the Holo with an ec filter. With the Morpheus to 4x pcm.

I referred back to new music day's review of the may and his reference to the tambourine in a recording and how it revealed the room borders, it plays lightly but had enough presence on the May to define the rear and side room walls. With the Morpheus, using different filters and ditherers, I was able to get that tambourine to sound like a tambourine instead of a pocket full of change or a cymbal. With the Holo, I could sense the rear wall and a side wall, upsampling to dsd256. Using that as a peg to hang my hat on, I chose the Holo. In every day listening, I thought maybe the Morpheus might be a little warmer but they seemed to resolve equally. The pll is no comparison for optical and Netflix, etc. Holo wins.


----------



## Baten

GoldenOne said:


> I checked latency on may with PLL on, it's 0.7ms, so absolutely no worries


And I assume without PLL it's even lower :O


----------



## Adnan Firoze

Quick question: Does anyone stack something on top of the Spring DACs? I am waiting on mine and I have no place to put my streamer (a PI based light one). Or is it a clear no-no?


----------



## GoldenOne

Adnan Firoze said:


> Quick question: Does anyone stack something on top of the Spring DACs? I am waiting on mine and I have no place to put my streamer (a PI based light one). Or is it a clear no-no?


The spring doesn't get tooo toasty. And it's mostly on the right hand side where the DAC module and output stage is. Stacking something on the left side would be no problem. 

The May gets much hotter and it's strongly advised not to put stuff ontop of it if it can be avoided


----------



## Zachik

@GoldenOne any ETA for your Spring 3 video (and comparison to May)?


----------



## Sense

Zachik said:


> @GoldenOne any ETA for your Spring 3 video (and comparison to May)?


@GoldenOne

If you can also compare it to the TT2 without Mscaler…would be very much appreciated. Reviewers tend to glaze over what the TT2 without Mscaler is like compared to other dacs. It’s a $10k system…I have to assume more people know what the TT2 sounds like than the +Mscaler stack.


----------



## bilboda

Adnan Firoze said:


> Quick question: Does anyone stack something on top of the Spring DACs? I am waiting on mine and I have no place to put my streamer (a PI based light one). Or is it a clear no-no?


I purchased this for the top shelf of my rack https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0122TWDH4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It provides plenty of air space for the holo and fits my shelf. Right now I have a Matrix Xspdif, an ifi zen stream, and rca and an xlr switch on it. Oh and a smallish hp amp that I thought I would sell but is showing to be quite nice.


----------



## frivera

@GoldenOne Do you know, Is the Pi2AES I2S pinout compatible with Spring 3?

@kyorakun Interesting what you say, comparing Spring 3 with the Pontus 2. After a Youtube review from some time ago (Spring 2 vs Pontus 1),  I thought that Holo sound, tends to be warmer/more laid back than Denafrips. It would be interesting to know @koso impresions too.


----------



## GoldenOne

frivera said:


> @GoldenOne Do you know, Is the Pi2AES I2S pinout compatible with Spring 3?
> 
> @kyorakun Interesting what you say, comparing Spring 3 with the Pontus 2. After a Youtube review from some time ago (Spring 2 vs Pontus 1),  I thought that Holo sound, tends to be warmer/more laid back than Denafrips. It would be interesting to know @koso impresions too.


Yes, set the i2s pinout on the spring 3 to 'alt1' and it matches pi2aes.


----------



## koso (Aug 26, 2021)

Hi all. You must wait little bit more for my impressions and Spring 3 KTE / Venus II comparison.
I had some technical issues with Spring 3, which I had to solve first, so actual burn-in period started just yesterday. Here is a short recap of what happened.

After my unit arrived, I noticed two issues.

Transformer hum
There was hum coming from inside of unit, most likely from transformer. Hum was audible from around 1,5m distance from unit when power is ON. I was sure that this was not DC offset related problem. Other devices in my setup have no hum (Simaudio amp, Simaudio DAC, Denafrips DAC, Denafrips DDC are completely silent) and I also have decent DC filter, Isotek Syncro Uni, in chain - before Shunyata Hydra Triton power filter. I have tried several power cables with same result. I also tried another power filter (Isotek Aquarius) and direct to wall power setup with same hum detected.
Standby issue
I have experienced recurring issues with Spring display. At first, I thought the device is unable to turn ON from standby mode, because when I long pressed power button display was still OFF and power led was still red/orange. But after that I noticed that despite red led after long press of power button relay click from inside indicates that unit is ON. And indeed, in such case I really could hear the music, but display was OFF (regardless clicking display button on remote) and power led was still red/orange! This issue occurred quite often, when I wanted to turn unit ON from standby mode via front power button (long press). The only way to bring display and green led normal behavior back was to power unit off completely via rocker switch on the back panel, sometimes several times in a row.
In first one and half days of having unit, it occurred 7-8 times randomly, as I have experimented with hum removal (swapping power cables and power filters) so I had to turn unit ON/OFF many times. After discovering problem, I tried to power unit ON from standby on purpose and discovered that it was common issue.
I had informed Magna Hifi about this and after short email communication I packed my unit and sent back to Magna. In the meantime, I found out that the problem allegedly occurred on several Spring 3 units (but not all) and Holo audio is aware of it and is working on solution, probably of a software nature. Jos from Magna HiFi is very supportive, acted quickly, so I agreed with him that I would not discuss this issue in the forums for some time and spread unnecessary panic.
Allegedly Holo already solved issue with new Holo Spring 3 firmware, so “radio silence” is broken now.

Magna sent me new Spring 3 unit with new firmware, which arrived yesterday (quick swap, kudos to Magna Hifi!).

Good news first, hum is gone. However, standby issue is not 100% gone. Just the second attempt to switch unit from standby ended with the same error as before. This was right after I left configuration mode (I needed to setup I2S). I was not able to replicate issue again in normal mode, so that is sort of good news too. Maybe this time it occurs only after “configuration mode”, or it is far less frequent, who knows. Will test it further and let you know. Same with Magna Hifi, Jos promised to run some tests too, but for now he was not able to replicate issue on some L2 unit (info from yesterday).

I consider it as minor issue right now, but anyway I will keep eye on that in following few days and let you know. For now, I will focus on initial burn-in and after few days finally some in depth listening!

Radoslav.


PS:
What to say? I understand that ANY unit in any price range could have issues. At the same time, I am quite disappointed because I was completely convinced of the perfection and reliability of Holo Audio products based on excellent references. Holo Audio would probably save itself a lot of trouble if they didn't rush to release Spring 3 and hold it a few extra weeks to properly test and debug the software and finish new USB module as well... However, as once was said in good old movie: “...nobody is perfect”


----------



## GoldenOne

koso said:


> Hi all. You must wait little bit more for my impressions and Spring 3 KTE / Venus II comparison.
> I had some technical issues with Spring 3, which I had to solve first, so actual burn-in period started just yesterday. Here is a short recap of what happened.
> 
> After my unit arrived, I noticed two issues.
> ...


Just as an FYI it's advisable not to turn r2r dacs off/standby anyway as they need to be temp stable.

If at all possible they need to be left on


----------



## koso (Aug 26, 2021)

GoldenOne said:


> Just as an FYI it's advisable not to turn r2r dacs off/standby anyway as they need to be temp stable.
> 
> If at all possible they need to be left on


Yes I know this. In my setup, I never turn off DAC or DDC, even standby on my Simaudio Moon amp is constructed that way (every circuit except for display and volume control is on). Practically all my setup is "ready to go" all the time. So I don't see any practical problem in this. But when I come across a similar issue, I always ask myself, "What else is wrong then?"


----------



## Sense

GoldenOne said:


> Just as an FYI it's advisable not to turn r2r dacs off/standby anyway as they need to be temp stable.
> 
> If at all possible they need to be left on


Why do they need to be temp stable? What is the consequence of not leaving it on all the time? Asking for a friend


----------



## KenMan85

Sense said:


> Why do they need to be temp stable? What is the consequence of not leaving it on all the time? Asking for a friend


Warm components sound their best


----------



## GoldenOne

Sense said:


> Why do they need to be temp stable? What is the consequence of not leaving it on all the time? Asking for a friend


Resistors change their values slightly depending on temperature.

For most devices where you might have one resistor in a circuit somewhere that only needs to be within 1% or something that's fine.

But in an r2r dac where you're trying to get to 0.001% accuracy, being temp stable is important.
This is also why the holo dacs when you mute/turn off the class A output stage, do still deliberately keep some circuitry on to keep the ladders up to temp. So that they're ready to go when you unmute


----------



## Sense

KenMan85 said:


> Warm components sound their best





GoldenOne said:


> Resistors change their values slightly depending on temperature.
> 
> For most devices where you might have one resistor in a circuit somewhere that only needs to be within 1% or something that's fine.
> 
> ...


Is there any harm in turning it off or do it just mean that in order to get the best out of the dac...you have to wait for it to get to temp every time you turn it off and on? Does it cause any harm to the dac components?


----------



## GoldenOne

Sense said:


> Is there any harm in turning it off or do it just mean that in order to get the best out of the dac...you have to wait for it to get to temp every time you turn it off and on? Does it cause any harm to the dac components?


Harm? Not directly no.

But staying warm is much better for components than repeated thermal cycles so it may reduce the lifetime of products to turn them off and on all the time.
And as mentioned will mean you'd need to wait for warmup for optimal sound each time too


----------



## CopperFox

Adnan Firoze said:


> Quick question: Does anyone stack something on top of the Spring DACs? I am waiting on mine and I have no place to put my streamer (a PI based light one). Or is it a clear no-no?



Perhaps you should ask Wildism Audio in Hong Kong?


----------



## thecrow

CopperFox said:


> Perhaps you should ask Wildism Audio in Hong Kong?


so these are ladder dacs, right?


----------



## KenMan85

thecrow said:


> so these are ladder dacs, right?


Haha


----------



## Adnan Firoze

bilboda said:


> I purchased this for the top shelf of my rack https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0122TWDH4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> It provides plenty of air space for the holo and fits my shelf. Right now I have a Matrix Xspdif, an ifi zen stream, and rca and an xlr switch on it. Oh and a smallish hp amp that I thought I would sell but is showing to be quite nice.


Thank you. So, are you saying that the Spring 3 fits "under" it and to place the streamer and Matrix above it or the other way round? Thanks for sharing btw.


----------



## bilboda

Yes, that's what I do. Measure your rack though an make sure it's wide enough. I have less than an inch to spare on both sides.


----------



## koso

Hi all.
Is there any official recommended time for initial burn-in of Spring 3 dac? I've read on another forum that 300-500 hours is recommended by Holo audio (this was related to first gen. Spring), but I would like to know your opinion, or actual experience with it.


----------



## KenMan85

koso said:


> Hi all.
> Is there any official recommended time for initial burn-in of Spring 3 dac? I've read on another forum that 300-500 hours is recommended by Holo audio (this was related to first gen. Spring), but I would like to know your opinion, or actual experience with it.


Most I've heard is 100 to 200 and you won't hear much difference after the first hundred


----------



## Delta9K

koso said:


> Hi all.
> Is there any official recommended time for initial burn-in of Spring 3 dac? I've read on another forum that 300-500 hours is recommended by Holo audio (this was related to first gen. Spring), but I would like to know your opinion, or actual experience with it.


Apparently I'm somewhat of a contrarian, for me 300-400 hrs. Though, I also changed up USB cables in within that time, so likely I had some new cable run in taking place too in parallel.


----------



## koso (Aug 30, 2021)

Delta9K said:


> Apparently I'm somewhat of a contrarian, for me 300-400 hrs. Though, I also changed up USB cables in within that time, so likely I had some new cable run in taking place too in parallel.


This is exactly what my friend, who owned Spring 2 L2, told me. He also told me it was significant difference (before and after 300 hour burn in period).
My own experience with Denafrips Venus II burn in time is coincidentally just about the same, this DAC settled down about after two weeks, which is around 300 h too.

Who knows why the experiences of individual users differ so much. Is it system dependent? More resolving system (or more resolving ears) being more sensitive to change In the sound?   Or is it the actual method of burn in?  …If you listen to new device during burn in period, the changes are gradual, but if you let device to burn in without listening, the change is a jump. …Just thinking out loud.


----------



## KenMan85

I still don't know if usb cable make a difference on a system with a great USB input. What noise is this cable stopping.


----------



## Baten

KenMan85 said:


> I still don't know if usb cable make a difference on a system with a great USB input. What noise is this cable stopping.


Agree


----------



## koso

KenMan85 said:


> I still don't know if usb cable make a difference on a system with a great USB input. What noise is this cable stopping.


I had trouble distinguishing the individual USB cables in my system too (Audioquest Carbon, iFi Mercury, Wireworld Starlight 8, Jcat USB, cable to name few) until I came across my current cable - Siltech Classic Anniversary USB. And suddenly the difference was clear. And I consider my usb source (from Aurender) as “clean”, so it is not only about stopping noise


----------



## Delta9K (Aug 30, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> I still don't know if usb cable make a difference on a system with a great USB input. What noise is this cable stopping.


For myself at this point it is not about eliminating noise. Hopefully those issues have been worked out before one spends almost $3K + on a DAC and most likely that amount on an amplifier too, and the same again for a headphone. Would not make sense for myself anyway, to be investing that much on any component if there were an underlying noise issue degrading it all. So, it's not about eliminating noise. In-line with that it is also not about trying to correct any synergy issues between components either. A cable, power, USB, Spdif etc. is not going to fix anything. What I have found is that they can be used for enhancement and tweaks, in the same way custom cables for your headphones can have an effect. The USB cable I am using brings a wider stage, better bass and an overall smoothness without loosing detail (to me).

"Do cables matter?" is a touchy subject and can get out of control easily. I'll leave it with that I am in the camp of cables matter, but others may not be. I would never try to convince anyone one way or another. That is only something one can do for themselves.


----------



## KenMan85

after 7 weeks , Today I got my DHL notice.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

KenMan85 said:


> after 7 weeks , Today I got my DHL notice.



Nice! Today I am stepping into the 4 weeks mark.


----------



## Clemmaster

koso said:


> Hi all.
> Is there any official recommended time for initial burn-in of Spring 3 dac? I've read on another forum that 300-500 hours is recommended by Holo audio (this was related to first gen. Spring), but I would like to know your opinion, or actual experience with it.


Just enough to be outside the return window is the preferred amount (by the manufacturer).


----------



## Greg121986

I got my tracking number yesterday, followed by an email from Kitsune this morning. Very thankful that my unit has finally shipped, and even more thankful that Kitsune confirmed that I will have the USB input with the improved compatibility with AMD systems. My music server is an AMD Epyc and my PCs are AMD Ryzen, so hopefully I do not encounter any USB gremlins. 

My original order date was July 14, so about 48 days or just under 7 weeks from order to shipping. I pre-ordered a Spring gen 1 KTE as well. That took 4 weeks from order to shipping during a time when the world was mostly normal. So, I'd say Kitsune is doing exceptionally well despite all of the nearly insurmountable challenges that exist today!


----------



## KenMan85 (Sep 2, 2021)

got the spring today, any idea why its significantly quieter feeding my amp than my topping d90 was despite having a higher VRMS balanced output?

clearly it was an issue with my USBridge signature while playing back PCM only. I took it out of the chain and the volume was fine after.  weird wasnt an issue with d90


----------



## Adnan Firoze

KenMan85 said:


> got the spring today, any idea why its significantly quieter feeding my amp than my topping d90 was despite having a higher VRMS balanced output?
> 
> clearly it was an issue with my USBridge signature while playing back PCM only. I took it out of the chain and the volume was fine after.  weird wasnt an issue with d90



Cool. Enjoy, man! When did you order? Trying to gauge when I might get my notification.


----------



## KenMan85

Adnan Firoze said:


> Cool. Enjoy, man! When did you order? Trying to gauge when I might get my notification.


July 9


----------



## Delta9K

KenMan85 said:


> got the spring today, any idea why its significantly quieter feeding my amp than my topping d90 was despite having a higher VRMS balanced output?


That's a tricky one for sure. I had to reduce the input gain on my Violectric V550 -6dB after putting the spring 3 in line, where with the Soekris dac1541 I had it at 0dB. I am working the balanced out from Spring3 into the balanced in on the amp.

Also, happy that you got your Spring3 in - I know it has been a long time coming.


----------



## KenMan85

Initial impressions.

Sound stage, separation, clarity, detail all took a significant bump up from my topping. 

*stage and separation* 
It's very easy to pick an instrument and just follow that one sound.  Imaging is great.  A bit of an example of those combining is acoustics in Hotel California.  I no longer am hearing the placement of the instrument in its own space but also hearing space between each note/string.  Their is tangible air between them. Furthermore,  layering of front to back is also more notable without the need to be critically listening.  The stage as a whole is wider, although I do not believe it has gotten anymore height.  

*Clarity and Detail*
Well another obvious stand out.  My better half who was and remains significantly unhappy with the amount of money spent, did make a comment.  Walking by me, she said she could already hear a difference just via the sound leaking from the open backs.  Upon her listening she said , you know its more clear,  and theirs more " i don't know somehow it seems more smooth almost.. I know you we're worried that you wouldn't be able to notice the sound difference for the money but you can at least say its there. "

For me the moment of ahh theirs a more to it came initially with "under dogs" by Alicia Keys.  Hearing the multiple vocal tracks layered very clearly.  Again the same experience with frankly, ever "beatles" song I've played.  Their are new details emerging as far as little drum hits and such that I do not notice previous.  Again, without the need to pay attention.  I notice these new things while I am actively typing this out.  Clearly not focusing specifically in search for details.   

*Characteristics and Tone*
Well its is clear this dac presents music in a different way.  That is for sure.  It doesn't take long for the brain to adjust and for it to become the new normal.  I do notice snares , high hats, clicks , snaps and claps are have a more crisp hit.  It's far less dull and drowned out.   The sound all around is more Lively, making me previous dac seem flat .  
As if I went from watching a concert in 4k . To being in the venue.  Is it night and day ? yes.  Is it 4 times better, no.  But you know this, you're in this rabbit hole with me.  

All for now , time to enjoy


----------



## Baten

KenMan85 said:


> Initial impressions.
> 
> Sound stage, separation, clarity, detail all took a significant bump up from my topping.
> 
> ...


I was gonna ask which version it is but it's in your Sig  KTE


----------



## KenMan85

Baten said:


> I was gonna ask which version it is but it's in your Sig  KTE


----------



## Larry Man (Sep 3, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> after 7 weeks , Today I got my DHL notice.


Hi Ken,

Wonder if all of you ordered Level 3 (KTE) version ? Magna Hi-Fi in Netherlands has handful of stock of both Level 1 & 2 ready to ship (but Level 3 has wait time). Is it because no one wants Level 1 or Level 2 ? I ordered mine last night from Magna Hi-Fi and they shipped it out within 2 hours. And DHL already notified me the package will be delivered to me next Tuesday ( could be lot earlier so i hate labour day long weekend ....). And the price with shipping somehow are about a bit cheaper after Canadian to Euro conversion (no need to pay VAT). And Magna support staff replied to inquiries fast and polite. And they were very knowledgeable about Holo products as well. I am in West coast Canada.

Larry


----------



## KenMan85

Larry Man said:


> Hi Ken,
> 
> Wonder if all of you ordered Level 3 (KTE) version ? Magna Hi-Fi in Netherlands has handful of stock of both Level 1 & 2 ready to ship (but Level 3 has wait time). Is it because no one wants Level 1 or Level 2 ? I ordered mine last night from Magna Hi-Fi and they shipped it out within 2 hours. And DHL already notified me the package will be delivered to me next Tuesday ( could be lot earlier so i hate labour day long weekend ....). And the price with shipping somehow are about a fraction cheaper after Canadian to Euro conversion. I am in West coast Canada.
> 
> Larry


The kte is hand chosen parts, silver solder and a hand wrapped silver transformer.  They're made to order. And I spent almost ten days waiting for the new usb modules after it was built


----------



## Larry Man (Sep 3, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> The kte is hand chosen parts, silver solder and a hand wrapped silver transformer.  They're made to order. And I spent almost ten days waiting for the new usb modules after it was built


I know the goodies on KTE version but not everyone will go for the extreme i guess. The Level 2 is an excellent DAC for the price. From Holo Audio's site looks like we have to wait for both Level 1 and 2 to be built. I just like to share with others who will take lower spec'd that Magna Hi Fi carries them in stock.


----------



## KenMan85

Larry Man said:


> I know the goodies on KTE version but not everyone will go for the extreme i guess. The Level 2 is an excellent DAC for the price.


Absolutely it is!  I chose the kte for the usb module primarily.


----------



## Delta9K

Larry Man said:


> Magna Hi-Fi in Netherlands has handful of stock of both Level 1 & 2 ready to ship (but Level 3 has wait time). Is it because no one wants Level 1 or Level 2


I think it is because the Spring3 KTE is the only Spring 3 with the Titanis USB module same as the May level 2 & KTE.


----------



## KenMan85

Opinion, upsample pcm is horrible. Takes the smooth natural sound n makes it overly sharp and focused. Pushes the vocals forward and defeated the purpose of buying a nos r2r. 

DSD 256 from hqplayer or no upsampling at all seems to be my personal preference.


----------



## koso (Sep 4, 2021)

Delta9K said:


> I think it is because the Spring3 KTE is the only Spring 3 with the Titanis USB module same as the May level 2 & KTE.


I ordered KTE version because of USB module…
@KenMan85 Spring 3 KTE has no longer silver transformer (Spring 2 KTE had), just silver wiring. New transformer is flat wire, “ultra premium”, but copper.

…And here is photo of mine


----------



## ctrlm

I just pulled the trigger on a Spring 3 KTE for my speaker setup - so the wait begins.

I used to run a Metrum Pavane NOS DAC _and_ a Delta Sigma DAC in my setup for years but ended up selling the Pavane due to a misguided bout of rationalisation, only to miss the option of having both types of presentation on tap. The May wasn't a financial option for me at over AUD 3,000 more than the Spring and I finally decided on the KTE over the Level 2 purely on the basis of being the sort of person that always ticks all the option boxes when I buy something to avoid any potential regret.

I use digital room correction so the Spring will be fed a constant 24/96 via AES but I will try the USB in my desktop headphone setup at some point, although it is unlikely to stay there due purely to it's physical size....but I could make compromises if the SQ is somehow "_other-wordly_" compared to what I run now 

It's going to be interesting to compare the Spring to the Pavane - albeit from a rapidly disintegrating memory.


----------



## KaiserTK

I didn’t see it mentioned here, but is the Spring 3 only NOS?


----------



## KenMan85

KaiserTK said:


> I didn’t see it mentioned here, but is the Spring 3 only NOS?


No, you can set it to upsample, convert all to dsd or convert all to dsd.

The issue being why bother. Hqplayer converts better.

Set it in nos and never touch it   you'll not find any review preferring os to NOS in any holo product


Edit nos is the default setting so don't need to actually set


----------



## koso

KaiserTK said:


> I didn’t see it mentioned here, but is the Spring 3 only NOS?


As far as I know, Spring 3 is NOS ONLY dac. There is no oversampling option (there was this option on Spring 2).


----------



## laialbert

KaiserTK said:


> I didn’t see it mentioned here, but is the Spring 3 only NOS?


If there’s an over sampling mode, I haven’t found a way to enable it on my Spring 3. It is curious that the display always says NOS though, which made me think it could be switched.


----------



## koso

laialbert said:


> If there’s an over sampling mode, I haven’t found a way to enable it on my Spring 3. It is curious that the display always says NOS though, which made me think it could be switched.


You haven't found it,  because Spring 3 is NOS only


----------



## 87mpi

KaiserTK said:


> I didn’t see it mentioned here, but is the Spring 3 only NOS?


Yes, only NOS mode


----------



## 87mpi (Sep 5, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> Opinion, upsample pcm is horrible. Takes the smooth natural sound n makes it overly sharp and focused. Pushes the vocals forward and defeated the purpose of buying a nos r2r.
> 
> DSD 256 from hqplayer or no upsampling at all seems to be my personal preference.


I totally disagree!  Pcm sounds much more alive, with more soul, than dsd. Dsd is noticeably flatter and less rich, although it probably has slightly higher contrast (a black). I have a spring 3 KTE, NUC powered by a Keces P8, AudioQuest diamond usb, I use roon and hqplayer, pcm 1536 vs dsd 256 EC ( i9 9900k build). I haven't tried NOS without upsampling. 

At home I also have a spring 2 KTE and the difference is clearly in favor of the new one.  The 2 kte sounds poorly detailed, dark, amber, overly relaxed in comparison.  The only point in favor seems to me a slightly greater attack on the mid-bass. 
The spring 3 KTE is a decisive leap forward.  And I think much of the credit is also due to the new titanis usb module.  I have the first version of the module, but I contacted Magna and I'm waiting for them to send me the updated module.


----------



## rocky500 (Sep 5, 2021)

koso said:


> You haven't found it,  because Spring 3 is NOS only


Great move and won't be missed here as never wanted to leave my Spring 1 or Spring 2 in OS mode for very long.

Was going to post and ask when I first tried the Spring 3 as could not find how to switch it but realised I never liked it before anyway, so it did not matter.


----------



## KenMan85

87mpi said:


> I totally disagree!  Pcm sounds much more alive, with more soul, than dsd. Dsd is noticeably flatter and less rich, although it probably has slightly higher contrast (a black). I have a spring 3 KTE, NUC powered by a Keces P8, AudioQuest diamond usb, I use roon and hqplayer, pcm 1536 vs dsd 256 EC ( i9 9900k build). I haven't tried NOS without upsampling.
> 
> At home I also have a spring 2 KTE and the difference is clearly in favor of the new one.  The 2 kte sounds poorly detailed, dark, amber, overly relaxed in comparison.  The only point in favor seems to me a slightly greater attack on the mid-bass.
> The spring 3 KTE is a decisive leap forward.  And I think much of the credit is also due to the new titanis usb module.  I have the first version of the module, but I contacted Magna and I'm waiting for them to send me the updated module.


I love the pcm, I just found the upsample version basically took the nos r2r sound and made it into an overly clean delta sigma sound. 

I tried audirvana upsampling and jqplaye since m / ls15 or whichever it is.  Not at my pc to check the one it is lol


----------



## KenMan85

Ok so update.

1) burn in is real with this.  It's much more balanced and much more bass.  Treble siblant spike is totally gone. 

2). Hqplayer with dac bits at 20.
 Output pcm at 1.5mhz 
Sinc L
LNS15 

Wow sounds amazing!


----------



## barbz127

KenMan85 said:


> burn in is real with this. It's much more balanced and much more bass. Treble siblant spike is totally gone.


How many hours do you have one this now?
Thankyou


----------



## KenMan85

barbz127 said:


> How many hours do you have one this now?
> Thankyou


Thursday night till now. Minus about 6 hours in the middle of Sunday. Other than that it's constantly on with music going. Just amp is off


----------



## koso

Some more photos of my whole setup.


----------



## arnaud

1 word: neat


----------



## KenMan85

Anyone else get their unit in?


----------



## Greg121986 (Sep 7, 2021)

So far, unbelievably good and everything I had hoped for. I'm working on more detailed thoughts, but this is just a real quick brain dump. This comes after owning 2 original Spring 1 KTE. Sadly, my stereo is all packed up and in storage right now so I feel like I am really missing out on what this DAC can do. I find stereo to be a much better indicator of how good a DAC is. With headphones though, I'm still in love.

Working perfectly from my Debian server on Intel CPU. I have not tried AMD yet, but I know I have the upgraded USB input. There are no clicks or pops when changing sample rate. With modern Schiit stuff, I always hear static as sample rate changes, but none of that with the Spring. It just begins playing a new track. Excellent so far.

In short, the Singxer SA-1 sucks. I bought it used and the 1/4" is broken but the balanced out works. Dull treble, too much midrange and midbass for me. The McIntosh is glorious. But I also really love the Bryston. I am trying to decide which of those two I will keep. Focal Clear and Drop DCA Ether CX


----------



## KenMan85

My setup


----------



## axsnyder

Greg121986 said:


> The McIntosh is glorious.



The MHA200 and an Audeze/Schiit LCD-R are what I'm planning to pair this DAC with and this is a fine statement Greg!


----------



## briantrinh86

koso said:


> Some more photos of my whole setup.


beautiful setup. may i know what speakers is that? thanks


----------



## KenMan85

The more Time spent, the more burn in on this dac is apparent.  First device I've had where I've noticed a changed.


I've learned that at least compared to my previous dac, this one sounds different.  Micro dynamics in vocals is massive.   Single words can have two or three volumes in them.  They ring n fade into black just as you might hear in a guitar string that's been plucked. Words no longer are sung then just end abruptly.

And shocking to me, I'm again hearing more instruments and vocal tracks. Including people talking faintly in the back round. Usually at the beginning of the tack (not all obviously)

Perhaps production persons?

And as its r2r the naturalness and smoothness I understand now.

It sounds so real.  It doesn't just sound super clear like a delta sigma.  Theirs a life to the sound. And I am usually more caught up in the ebs n flows of music now. 

Wow all around.


----------



## koso

briantrinh86 said:


> beautiful setup. may i know what speakers is that? thanks


Diapason Adamantes III 25th


----------



## misternoe

*monitoring this thread to hear from Holo May + Spring 3 owners*


----------



## KenMan85

misternoe said:


> *monitoring this thread to hear from Holo May + Spring 3 owners*


Any questions?


----------



## eee1111

misternoe said:


> *monitoring this thread to hear from Holo May + Spring 3 owners*


I cant comb the site for you but there are a few that compared the two. Mostly just said the May was a step up. And that the spring KTE is your best value.


----------



## Narcissus

BlakeT said:


> *Lots* of people got the Spring 3 at the introductory price that are still waiting for it and will be getting the new usb module.  The intro pricing has ZERO to do with whether or not it included the new usb module.


If I may ask, what was the intro price?


----------



## KenMan85

Narcissus said:


> If I may ask, what was the intro price?


I think 2800 for the kte and then scales down from there


----------



## Delta9K

Narcissus said:


> If I may ask, what was the intro price?


$=USD

Spring 3 version KTE $2,798.0
Shipping                      $180.0

Total                          $2,978.0


----------



## cj3209

Delta9K said:


> $=USD
> 
> Spring 3 version KTE $2,798.0
> Shipping                      $180.0
> ...


Just to clarify, the current website price is $3,098 plus shipping, I believe.

I purchased a pre-owned Spring 3 KTE (in excellent condition) and initial sound impression is that it is a different flavor from my Sagra DAC.  Need to listen more.


----------



## Delta9K (Sep 9, 2021)

cj3209 said:


> Just to clarify, the current website price is $3,098 plus shipping, I believe.
> 
> I purchased a pre-owned Spring 3 KTE (in excellent condition) and initial sound impression is that it is a different flavor from my Sagra DAC.  Need to listen more.


Thanks, I understand current pricing - I was responding to a question of what was the introductory price. Just clarifying here... And the unit I picked out was w/o preamp module.


----------



## Traiguen (Sep 10, 2021)

Hi, I just received my Spring 3 KTE so, after a few weeks waiting, I am finally enjoying it.
This DAC has XLR and RCA outputs and both are active all the time, you don't have to choose which output to use.  I have 2 headphone amps connected so I can have 2 headphones active all the time.
When I had the Denafrips Pontus I was told not to use both outputs at the same time so I wonder if somebody knows if there is any issue in doing this with the Spring 3.
Thanks.

Update: answer from Kitsunehifi:
"the spring 3 doesn’t need a selector as it has dedicated output stages for each and all are meant to be live at the same time. Many use all the outputs at once like one for a sub, one for preamp and one for headamp… 
So no problems if you want to do that"


----------



## thomasu

Is the KTE worth the almost 50% premium over the L1?


----------



## cj3209

thomasu said:


> Is the KTE worth the almost 50% premium over the L1?


It depends.  What headphones, speakers/headphone amp are you using?


----------



## thomasu

I have the Susvara with a Soloist 3XP currently. Waiting on the Flux Volot to come in


----------



## cj3209

thomasu said:


> I have the Susvara with a Soloist 3XP currently. Waiting on the Flux Volot to come in


Get the KTE and don't look back.  Seriously.


----------



## KenMan85

thomasu said:


> I have the Susvara with a Soloist 3XP currently. Waiting on the Flux Volot to come in


Then maybe,  still you're not getting 50 percent better sound.  But if you're main input is usb I'd imagine the upgraded module is beneficial
  How much? No idea, who here has listened to both models side by side in an a/b. M


----------



## Adnan Firoze

thomasu said:


> I have the Susvara with a Soloist 3XP currently. Waiting on the Flux Volot to come in



How are you liking the Susvara on the Soloist? I have the same setup and I also considered the Volot but went ahead and got the AHB2 power amp. Wondering once you get the Volot, will you be selling off the Soloist?

More on topic: I'm on the end of 5th week of waiting. I'm getting tired.


----------



## cj3209

Adnan Firoze said:


> More on topic: I'm on the end of 5th week of waiting. I'm getting tired.


If you think 5 weeks of waiting is bad, trying ordering a decent bike - we're talking like 5 months here...


----------



## Adnan Firoze

cj3209 said:


> If you think 5 weeks of waiting is bad, trying ordering a decent bike - we're talking like 5 months here...



haha. Feeling better now. For real.


----------



## KenMan85

Buddy waited 4 months for his zmfs,  the wood he wanted was back order lol


----------



## thomasu

Adnan Firoze said:


> How are you liking the Susvara on the Soloist? I have the same setup and I also considered the Volot but went ahead and got the AHB2 power amp. Wondering once you get the Volot, will you be selling off the Soloist?
> 
> More on topic: I'm on the end of 5th week of waiting. I'm getting tired.


The Soloist is good volume wise but I can tell the headphones are underpowered, and yeah I will be selling them off once I get the Volot in


----------



## Baten

thomasu said:


> I have the Susvara with a Soloist 3XP currently. Waiting on the Flux Volot to come in


Miska the author of HQplayer has bought L2 of spring model, every time. So I personally don't think L3 is necessary. Not really.


----------



## cj3209

Baten said:


> Miska the author of HQplayer has bought L2 of spring model, every time. So I personally don't think L3 is necessary. Not really.


Whether something in hi-end audio is 'necessary' is a strange term.  The Holo Spring 3 KTE level is for those who value the best parts which can lead (not always) to the best possible sound for the unit given the use of better headphones and amp to go along with the DAC.  For $900 more than L1, you get a remote control, a better USB implementation, and better parts.  I like the remote control but it's up to you if the better parts are worth the extra $$.


----------



## Preface

Adnan Firoze said:


> More on topic: I'm on the end of 5th week of waiting. I'm getting tired.


I have ordered 16 Jul - in last day of introductory price, still waiting. It is 8 weeks, and I am already think if it was right decision.


----------



## laialbert

Does anyone have any details about the usb module upgrade program for the Spring 3? What does it cost and is it a user installable module? In general, mine has been working great, though when I use Colibri on my Mac and switch tracks too quickly, mine won't lock on DSD stream and incorrectly detects the stream as PCM. It might not fix the problem, but I might want the upgraded module just to be sure it works correctly with any future sources I might have.


----------



## Delta9K

laialbert said:


> Does anyone have any details about the usb module upgrade program for the Spring 3? What does it cost and is it a user installable module?
> If you purchased through Kitsune or HoloAudioUSA


If you purchased through KitsuneHiFi or HoloAudioUSA, it is best that you contact them for the exact details.


----------



## koso (Sep 16, 2021)

*Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC review*
_(& comparison with Denafrips Venus II)_

*INTRODUCTION*
Everything you will find in the following review applies to my own stereo setup in my listening area and pair of my own ears. I have not tested these dacs on any other setup and it is possible that the results of the comparison may be different in another setup or/and in another listening space.

Here is my setup:
_4x4m acoustically treated room
Power filter: Shunyata Hydra Triton v1
Source: Aurender N100H streamer via internal HDD library 
DAC: Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE, Denafrips Venus II
DDC: Denafrips Gaia, Matrix Audio X-Spdif 2
Amp: Simaudio Moon 600i
Speakers: Diapason Adamantes III 25th
Cabling: Siltech Classic Anniversary_







*HOLO AUDIO SPRING 3 KTE*
I like appearance of Spring 3 a lot. Great build quality, nice, not too big but heavy, all metal chassis. Decent connectors on back panel, nice and responsive front buttons and display nicely readable from my listening position. Remote is also nice. The only thing I would like to change would be dedicated button for each input on remote and dimmable display (there is only on and off option).
Before I start talking about sound quality I must mention that this dac really needs quite a long time to burn in. And the difference before and after burn in is in my opinion a big one. I let it burn for 500 hours with continuous 24/7 signal from the streamer, which consisted of playlist with the same amount of frequencies based on 44.1 and 48KHz. Differences during burn in process were most notable in bass region (from “no bass” to “great bass”). For better understanding of specific burn in progress of Spring 3 I created following graph.






After 500 hours of burn in I began with listening to each input except for optical (I have no decent optical cable). Inputs are definitely not equal in sound quality. Spdif Coaxial is good, same with AES/EBU. I2S is quite better than both Spdif, but for my surprise, in my current setup best sounding input is USB (directly connected with streamer).
As my streamer is USB output only, other inputs were tested using Gaia or X-Spdif 2 DDC. Unfortunately I am still not able to test I2S input via I2S output from Gaia, because, as I already mentioned in previous post, none of four Springs I2S pinouts are compatible with Gaia. There is I2S pinout function on Gaia with newest firmware, but I am still unable to flash this firmware to my unit and still resolving this issue with Vinshine Audio. So for testing of I2S input I used X-Spdif 2 DDC, which is pity, because Gaia is far better sounding DDC.
From the moment I realized USB is best sounding input (for now) I have further tested and compared Spring 3 using only this input.
EDIT: PLL function was enabled all the time on Spring 3.

Spring 3 KTE sounds really good. Very good dynamics with great details and nice soundstage. No region is emphasized. Separation of individual instruments and voices is exceptional. Voices are very real and very tightly focused. Sound character is right in the middle between analytic and euphonic. But in my opinion this focus on neutral sound character goes sometimes little bit against overall fluidity of sound as whole. There is no apparent flaw in sound quality, yet in my setup I still feel like I'm missing a little bit of smoothness. Which allegedly was not the case with previous model Spring 2. But I have not compared the two in my setup, so this is just a guess. See more detailed explanation of this in following comparison.

*COMPARISON WITH DENAFRIPS VENUS II*
Denafrips Venus II is exactly in the same price and quality range as Spring 3 KTE. You can consider these two as direct competitors. And indeed, in many areas these two DACs are surprisingly close in sound quality. All comparison was made in NOS mode on both devices (I have to mention I don’t care if Venus II is “true” NOS or not).
Firstly I will name the areas and characteristics which are almost the same on both:
-great dynamics and punch
-rich harmonics
-very good and similar sized soundstage (little bit wider on Venus II)
-great timing (Spring 3 little bit quicker)
-very good detail retrieval
-VERY realistic rendering of human voices
-no sign of brightness or dryness on highs

And now I'll try to explain the differences. Venus II is definitely smoother and overall sound is more fluid. At first I thought it was caused by over emphasize lower midrange and mid-bass region on Venus side. But after long listening session (and dozen switching between Spring 3 to Venus II with the same music material) I realized that it is not the case here. The amount of bass, mid-bass and low midrange is the same on both DACs, but bodies of acoustic instruments (double bass, violin, Spanish guitar) and human voices are bigger and fuller on Venus II. On the other hand same instruments and voices on Spring 3 are in better focus. So maybe more focused individual instruments (may be even too focused) and voices lead to lack of overall smoothness. On more complex recordings this is not apparent after first listening, but on recordings where there is only one or two acoustic instrument (solo double bass for example) Venus II sounds full bodied, filling all listening place, while Spring 3 sound little bit thin, but with better pinpoint location of instruments.
So this effect gives Venus II noticeable more amount of sweetness, but at the same time little bit less of transparency.

*CONCLUSION*
There is no clear winner between Spring 3 and Venus II. Both are excellent DACs. Venus II is more full bodied and sweet sounding, but never too sweet (as for example my previous DAC Simaudio Moon 380D was). On the other hand Spring 3 is bit more transparent, which is very useful quality for future changes of any gear in your setup. Another advantage of Spring 3 is fabulous USB input, so there is no need to use DDC. Both DACs share many great sound characteristic and differences are not big enough to name the winner.
All this of course, as I wrote at the beginning, could be system dependent, because amplification, speakers and not least - listening room plays a big role in final quality and character of sound.


----------



## Deolum

koso said:


> *Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC review*
> _(& comparison with Denafrips Venus II)_
> 
> *INTRODUCTION*
> ...


Don't want to offend anyone but that graph is the new most hilarious thing i've ever seen in this hobby. Thus far it was a guy who says the new wifi router needed 500 hours to burn in but this detailed not linear curve over 500 hours from basic to fabulous even tops that.


----------



## koso (Sep 15, 2021)

Deolum said:


> Don't want to offend anyone but that graph is the new most hilarious thing i've ever seen in this hobby. Thus far it was a guy who says the new wifi router needed 500 hours to burn in but this detailed not linear curve over 500 hours from basic to fabulous even tops that.


Yes I know graph could be too much, but I really mean it when I am saying Spring needs very long time to settle the sound and I am not the only one who noticed this. And indeed, it was not linear. But yes, graph is mostly for fun.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

koso said:


> *Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC review*
> _(& comparison with Denafrips Venus II)_
> 
> *INTRODUCTION*
> ...



Thanks a bunch for such great detailed impressions. But that Y axis, bro!


----------



## Adnan Firoze

@koso : I will shortly (hopefully) receive my Spring 3. Can you please give me some tips on burning in? I mean, I have open back headphones and it is not feasible for me to listen on for a week to sounds around me. What tracks did you play with your speakers (maybe link too) and the methodology in general?

Thank you.


----------



## KenMan85

Adnan Firoze said:


> @koso : I will shortly (hopefully) receive my Spring 3. Can you please give me some tips on burning in? I mean, I have open back headphones and it is not feasible for me to listen on for a week to sounds around me. What tracks did you play with your speakers (maybe link too) and the methodology in general?
> 
> Thank you.


You just put on music and leave the amp off.  I don't turn my spring off or stop play back ever.   I just turn my headphone amp off when I'm not using it


----------



## koso

Adnan Firoze said:


> @koso : I will shortly (hopefully) receive my Spring 3. Can you please give me some tips on burning in? I mean, I have open back headphones and it is not feasible for me to listen on for a week to sounds around me. What tracks did you play with your speakers (maybe link too) and the methodology in general?
> 
> Thank you.


Not big deal. For burning in DAC you just need to leave unit 2-3 weeks always on and feed it with some music (with amplifier off). So set  internet radio or some streamer playlist in repeat and it is all.


----------



## kingoftown1

@koso great review.  I know I wasn't the only one waiting for that exact comparison to be made.


----------



## Larry Man

Hi koso,

Thanks for the great review ! Did you enable the PLL function when playing your Spring 3 KTE ? I didn't see you mention it in your reviews (or maybe i missed it then please excuse me).

I found enbling PLL can make the overall sound much more smoother, and Jos from magna Hi-Fi recommended turning it on for better sounding as well. Worth trying it.


----------



## KenMan85

Larry Man said:


> Hi koso,
> 
> Thanks for the great review ! Did you enable the PLL function when playing your Spring 3 KTE ? I didn't see you mention it in your reviews (or maybe i missed it then please excuse me).
> 
> I found enbling PLL can make the overall sound much more smoother, and Jos from magna Hi-Fi recommended turning it on for better sounding as well. Worth trying it.


Isn't it on by default?


----------



## Larry Man (Sep 15, 2021)

Hi everyone,

For those who are contemplating or about to place your orders of Spring 3, Magna Hi-Fi has received handful of KTE version (with or without Preamp) this week and ready to ship. They have confirmed that these units come with most recent version of Titanis USB module. They also have Level 2 in stock as well. Magna Hi-Fi is the European authorized dealer and they ship worldwide.  https://magnahifi.com/holo-audio-spring-3-dac-kte-kitsune-r2r-dsd1024/   During checkout the VAT will be automatically taken out if you live outside of European union countries.

I just sold my Spring 3 level 1 and immediately ordered my KTE from them. My KTE is supposed to arrive to me in Canada early next week.  Same level of excellent supports as Kitsune.


----------



## Larry Man (Sep 15, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> Isn't it on by default?


No, mine was off when first turned on. So i followed the instructions in the manual and enabled it.

If it is "Disabled" then when the unit is turned on, the front panel will show "PLL OFF". And then the message disappear to give way to Sampling rate display.

If it is "Enabled" then the unit will not display any info about PLL.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

How does one switch between OS/NOS? I just got my unit and a bit confused. Thanks.


----------



## KenMan85

Adnan Firoze said:


> How does one switch between OS/NOS? I just got my unit and a bit confused. Thanks.


Nos only


----------



## Adnan Firoze

KenMan85 said:


> Nos only



Ohh OK. Thanks. So any upsampling would be by software like HQPlayer. Please correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## KenMan85

Adnan Firoze said:


> Ohh OK. Thanks. So any upsampling would be by software like HQPlayer. Please correct me if I am wrong.


Absolutely correct


----------



## Traiguen

Is it worth it to use HQPlayer with the Spring Kte?  If so, which version/flavor.?... when I tried it before with my Qutest it had a couple of versions if I recall correctly.


----------



## KenMan85

Traiguen said:


> Is it worth it to use HQPlayer with the Spring Kte?  If so, which version/flavor.?... when I tried it before with my Qutest it had a couple of versions if I recall correctly.


My settings


----------



## Traiguen

desktop version?


----------



## koso

Larry Man said:


> Hi koso,
> 
> Thanks for the great review ! Did you enable the PLL function when playing your Spring 3 KTE ? I didn't see you mention it in your reviews (or maybe i missed it then please excuse me).
> 
> I found enbling PLL can make the overall sound much more smoother, and Jos from magna Hi-Fi recommended turning it on for better sounding as well. Worth trying it.


Yes, PLL was ON all the time, I forgot to mention it.


----------



## fdsa654hg

How do Spring3, May and Soekris dac2541 compare? 
I know that the prices of these three machines are quite different, so I want to know if the price difference is worth it?

Sorry, my English is not very good


----------



## Preface

Larry Man said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> For those who are contemplating or about to place your orders of Spring 3, Magna Hi-Fi has received handful of KTE version (with or without Preamp) this week and ready to ship. They have confirmed that these units come with most recent version of Titanis USB module. They also have Level 2 in stock as well. Magna Hi-Fi is the European authorized dealer and they ship worldwide.  https://magnahifi.com/holo-audio-spring-3-dac-kte-kitsune-r2r-dsd1024/   During checkout the VAT will be automatically taken out if you live outside of European union countries.
> 
> I just sold my Spring 3 level 1 and immediately ordered my KTE from them. My KTE is supposed to arrive to me in Canada early next week.  Same level of excellent supports as Kitsune.


Well, I really do not understand what's going on. I am still waiting KTE from 16 July, just checked status it says:


July 16, 2021                                                                                                               Processing                                                    
Is there anyone who has ordered around this date? Have you received your KTE?


----------



## KenMan85

Preface said:


> Well, I really do not understand what's going on. I am still waiting KTE from 16 July, just checked status it says:
> 
> 
> July 16, 2021                                                                                                              Processing
> Is there anyone who has ordered around this date? Have you received your KTE?


I ordered on the 9th from kitsune. Got mine on like September 4th or so


----------



## kingoftown1

Curious what the average wait time is like for us non-kte folks.  Can anyone who's received their level 1 or 2 chime in?


----------



## ebjred

Preface said:


> Well, I really do not understand what's going on. I am still waiting KTE from 16 July, just checked status it says:
> 
> 
> July 16, 2021                                                                                                             Processing
> Is there anyone who has ordered around this date? Have you received your KTE?


August, Received this month. KTE. (USA)

Scratch that, I ordered the May not the Spring. Didn't notice the thread.


----------



## KenMan85

Preface said:


> Well, I really do not understand what's going on. I am still waiting KTE from 16 July, just checked status it says:
> 
> 
> July 16, 2021                                                                                                              Processing
> Is there anyone who has ordered around this date? Have you received your KTE?


Did you talk to customer service?


----------



## Preface

KenMan85 said:


> Did you talk to customer service?


It is miracle, but it has arrived yesterday, without shipping notice, via FedEx, and on site my order still shown as processing. 
So I am quite happy! Nothing about sound, as it is not burned.


----------



## Tubewin

koso said:


> *Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC review*
> _(& comparison with Denafrips Venus II)_
> 
> *INTRODUCTION*
> ...


I just got a reply back from Alvin at vinshine audio saying that the gaia is compatible with the May. Were you able to get it working for the spring? Thanks.


----------



## koso

Tubewin said:


> I just got a reply back from Alvin at vinshine audio saying that the gaia is compatible with the May. Were you able to get it working for the spring? Thanks.


Every Gaia (and Hermes) with new firmware is compatible.


----------



## cj3209

koso said:


> Not big deal. For burning in DAC you just need to leave unit 2-3 weeks always on and feed it with some music (with amplifier off). So set  internet radio or some streamer playlist in repeat and it is all.


I got a pre-owned Spring3 KTE and the first owner 'burned it in' for around 500 hours.  I know companies are telling us that their products need to be 'burned in' and I do hear differences after time but I think leaving it on with music playing for weeks is a *COLOSSAL *waste of time (and electricity).  The problem is that we have these '*reviewers*' who move from product to product so they 'need' to burn in their gear so it's at it's best for their review - I get it.  But for the vast majority of us end users, I think we should just pick the product we think best fits our ears (and our wallets) and then just listen to the gear and let the music sound better and better with time instead of plowing through the burn in process with 24/7 music.  Just saying.

In any case, the Spring3 KTE sounds insanely good with my HPA and headphones:  realism (a 'you are there' feeling), a sense of depth, and correct timbre is what my ears hear.

Happy listening!


----------



## Greg121986 (Sep 20, 2021)

I've had my Spring 3 KTE for a couple weeks now and I am just starting to mess around with various combinations and take notes for a brief review. I was using the USB input for awhile, but I just switched to I2S using my Singxer SU1 KTE DDR. Immediately I noticed that the I2S input seems to have much higher gain than the USB input. How could this be? I am using a McIntosh MHA200 and I found that with USB input to the Spring I was anywhere from 2-3 O'Clock on the volume knob. When I began using the I2S input to the Spring, I had to back it down to 12-1 O'Clock on the McIntosh. The MHA200 volume is far from linear so this is a dramatic change to my ears. Can anyone make sense of this? McIntosh recommends 12 O'Clock on the amp because it is unity gain, so this seems to be a much more ideal case anyway.

I am beginning to believe that I2S input on the Spring 3 sounds better than the USB input. I didn't think this would be the case, but I really, really like the way the I2S input sounds. I am level matching as best I can, but the output gain from the Spring is definitely different between USB and I2S.

In terms of my subjective preference for I2S, it may be explained by my USB chain. I am using a 30 foot USB3.0 extension cable from my Linux server running MPD. That is terminating into a 0.5M Wireworld Starlight 7 USB Cable. I have run this into the Holo Spring 3 KTE directly, as well as into the Singxer SU1 KTE DDR. I imagine the SU1 might be making up for some deficiencies in my USB source. But the improvement is pretty clear to my ears so far.


----------



## cj3209

Greg121986 said:


> I've had my Spring 3 KTE for a couple weeks now and I am just starting to mess around with various combinations and take notes for a brief review. I was using the USB input for awhile, but I just switched to I2S using my Singxer SU1 KTE DDR. Immediately I noticed that the I2S input seems to have much higher gain than the USB input. How could this be? I am using a McIntosh MHA200 and I found that with USB input to the Spring I was anywhere from 2-3 O'Clock on the volume knob. When I began using the I2S input to the Spring, I had to back it down to 12-1 O'Clock on the McIntosh. The MHA200 volume is far from linear so this is a dramatic change to my ears. Can anyone make sense of this? McIntosh recommends 12 O'Clock on the amp because it is unity gain, so this seems to be a much more ideal case anyway.
> 
> I am beginning to believe that I2S input on the Spring 3 sounds better than the USB input. I didn't think this would be the case, but I really, really like the way the I2S input sounds. I am level matching as best I can, but the output gain from the Spring is definitely different between USB and I2S.
> 
> In terms of my subjective preference for I2S, it may be explained by my USB chain. I am using a 30 foot USB3.0 extension cable from my Linux server running MPD. That is terminating into a 0.5M Wireworld Starlight 7 USB Cable. I have run this into the Holo Spring 3 KTE directly, as well as into the Singxer SU1 KTE DDR. I imagine the SU1 might be making up for some deficiencies in my USB source. But the improvement is pretty clear to my ears so far.


I have found that 'louder' sometimes makes our brains think it is better.  While I have been trying to find a good i2S solution for my listening, I cannot imagine i2S being subjectively that much better than my current JPS Labs AES connection to the Spring3 KTE from my streamer that would make it worthwhile to spend the additional funds necessary.


----------



## KenMan85

I'm just sitting here like, " pc to kte with hqplayer is good enough for me"


----------



## Greg121986

As I said, I am volume matching by ear as best I can. I don't think variation in volume level is causing me any persuasion. I am, however confused as to why there would be an output gain difference between the two DAC inputs.


----------



## KenMan85

Greg121986 said:


> As I said, I am volume matching by ear as best I can. I don't think variation in volume level is causing me any persuasion. I am, however confused as to why there would be an output gain difference between the two DAC inputs.


It has more to do with the output of the stuff up stream.


----------



## cj3209

Greg121986 said:


> As I said, I am volume matching by ear as best I can. I don't think variation in volume level is causing me any persuasion. I am, however confused as to why there would be an output gain difference between the two DAC inputs.


For me, the important question is not why the i2S input has higher gain than the USB input but why it sounds better to your ears.


----------



## mantraone

Greg121986 said:


> As I said, I am volume matching by ear as best I can. I don't think variation in volume level is causing me any persuasion. I am, however confused as to why there would be an output gain difference between the two DAC inputs.


I don't remember where but the Holo engineer wrote that the best interface in the KTE special version is the Titan USB.

I purchased a similar USB/I2S interface of yours Singxer, the Gustard U16 to use with my DAC and I'm very curious to listen the difference.

Let me tell you that the long USB cable can make issue in sound quality, I mede some test in the bast and USB of 10 mt was terrible in my system.


----------



## BlakeT (Sep 20, 2021)

Up until the point I started owning DAC's with I2S input, I have always subjectively preferred the sonics of the AES/EBU input on every DAC I have owned.  Now, with every DAC I've owned with an I2S input, I always prefer I2S.

The caveat here is, I haven't tried anything but usb input on my Spring 3 KTE because the big selling point of the KTE is the high performance of the Titanis usb on the KTE.    It helped me justify the added cost of the KTE version because I didn't need to purchase a DDC (and then a fancy power cord and vibration control footers for the DDC).  I sort of don't want to try I2S input on my Spring 3 because it might result in $$$


----------



## barbz127

BlakeT said:


> Up until the point I started owning DAC's with I2S input, I have always subjectively preferred the sonics of the AES/EBU input on every DAC I have owned.  Now, with every DAC I've owned with an I2S input, I always prefer I2S.
> 
> The caveat here is, I haven't tried anything but usb input on my Spring 3 KTE because the big selling point of the KTE is the high performance of the Titanis usb on the KTE.    It helped me justify the added cost of the KTE version because I didn't need to purchase a DDC (and then a fancy power cord and vibration control footers for the DDC).  I sort of don't want to try I2S input on my Spring 3 because it might result in $$$


Please report back for the rest of us who have ordered the kte model for the same reason but still chasing that 1-2% improvement


----------



## cj3209 (Sep 20, 2021)

BlakeT said:


> Up until the point I started owning DAC's with I2S input, I have always subjectively preferred the sonics of the AES/EBU input on every DAC I have owned.  Now, with every DAC I've owned with an I2S input, I always prefer I2S.
> 
> The caveat here is, I haven't tried anything but usb input on my Spring 3 KTE because the big selling point of the KTE is the high performance of the Titanis usb on the KTE.    It helped me justify the added cost of the KTE version because I didn't need to purchase a DDC (and then a fancy power cord and vibration control footers for the DDC).  I sort of don't want to try I2S input on my Spring 3 because it might result in $$$


I'm like you:  I want to try i2S but afraid it might sound better and then I'll be tempted to spend more money...lol...

Once in a while, I purposely hook up an older DAC and listen for some time and then switch back to my best DAC so I can appreciate it.  Our brains are programmed to always want something new so doing this makes my TOTL DAC sound 'new.'  

But crap, I only use AES and now you've got me thinking I should try the USB input of the Spring 3 KTE...


----------



## Delta9K (Sep 20, 2021)

mantraone said:


> I don't remember where but the Holo engineer wrote that the best interface in the KTE special version is the Titan USB.


Tim from Kitsune HiFi told me that the Titanis 2.0 USB was better than the I2S and any of the SPDIF inputs on the KTE Spring 3.  I think the context was around asking if he had a recommendation for cables as an upgrade for the Pangea Premier SE HDMI that I have, and that I wanted to try the I2S instead of AES/EBU I was using. I have been using AES/EBU on my other DAC's. This is the first DAC I've owned that has I2S and I am curious to try it but, the USB sounds so good and I eliminated another device from the signal chain by not having the DDC inline. I may try it (DDC w/I2S) again at some point but the "if it's not broke don't fix it" rule is currently in play, at least for the time being.


----------



## Tubewin

Anyone try the Gaia/hermes via i2s with the Holo Spring/May dacs? Worth getting or is the USB straight from my pc to the dac better?


----------



## ctrlm

Delta9K said:


> Tim from Kitsune HiFi told me that the Titanis 2.0 USB was better than the I2S and any of the SPDIF inputs on the KTE Spring 3.  I think the context was around asking if he had a recommendation for cables as an upgrade for the Pangea Premier SE HDMI that I have, and that I wanted to try the I2S instead of AES/EBU I was using. I have been using AES/EBU on my other DAC's. This is the first DAC I've owned that has I2S and I am curious to try it but, the USB sounds so good and I eliminated another device from the signal chain by not having the DDC inline. I may try it (DDC w/I2S) again at some point but the "if it's not broke don't fix it" rule is currently in play, at least for the time being.



Can you comment on the differences between AES/EBU and the USB inputs?

I use Dirac room correction in my speaker setup via a MiniDSP DDRC-22D so USB or I2S are not options to feed my Spring 3 KTE (when it arrives).

I realize that I might not be getting the absolute best by using AES/EBU but I'd like to think that is more than made up for with the room correction, which makes a MAJOR difference in my setup.


----------



## cj3209

Well, I moved my Roon core to my bedroom to 'try out' the USB input of the Spring 3 KTE.  Well, it does sound noticeably different:  the silence seems 'blacker' than the AES connected to my streamer compared to USB out of my macmini Roon core.  And I'm using the USB cable supplied by the Spring 3 KTE.  Have to listen more...good times...


----------



## Delta9K (Sep 22, 2021)

ctrlm said:


> Can you comment on the differences between AES/EBU and the USB inputs?
> 
> I use Dirac room correction in my speaker setup via a MiniDSP DDRC-22D so USB or I2S are not options to feed my Spring 3 KTE (when it arrives).
> 
> I realize that I might not be getting the absolute best by using AES/EBU but I'd like to think that is more than made up for with the room correction, which makes a MAJOR difference in my setup.


I actually found AES/EBU very pleasing in the Spring 3 KTE. There is a difference with the Spring 3 Titanis USB (better, in my setup) but it is minimal. When using the AES with the Spring 3 I was running USB from my source to the DDC (Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2) and then the AES/EBU out from the DDC into the Spring 3. With the DDC inline it was isolating from the source as well as jitter reduction etc., so basically doing the same that the Titanis USB module in the DAC does. What the Titanis USB module provides is that same benefit of having a DDC inline, but using only the USB module in the DAC.

TLDR - I don't think you should to worry too much about it, this DAC is very good with any input used. Use the AES/EBU since that is what you require for your setup and Enjoy the Music!


----------



## Clemmaster

Delta9K said:


> I actually found AES/EBU very pleasing in the Spring 3 KTE. There is a difference with the Spring 3 Titanis USB (better, in my setup) but it is minimal. When using the AES with the Spring 3 I was running USB from my source to the DDC (Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2) and then the AES/EBU out from the DDC into the Spring 3. With the DDC inline it was isolating from the source as well as jitter reduction etc., so basically doing the same that the Titanis USB module in the DAC does. What the Titanis USB module provides is that same benefit of having a DDC inline, but using only the USB module in the DAC.
> 
> TLDR - I don't think you should to worry too much about it, this DAC is very good with any input used. Use the AES/EBU since that is what you require for your setup and Enjoy the Music!


The USB input is connected to the DAC via I2S. That’s one less conversion layer compared to the DDC via AES.


----------



## Greg121986 (Sep 22, 2021)

Wanted to add something else that I forgot to mention, and I don't remember seeing anyone else comment on it. The casework and finish on my Holo Spring 3 KTE is *absolutely outstanding. *It is definitely better than the Spring gen 1 that I had. The smoothness, consistency, color, mechanical fit & alignment, everything about this is absolutely the top of any audio equipment I have ever seen. It is as good as my Audia Flight stereo equipment which is hand made and finished in Italy. It doesn't make it sound any better, but this gives me great solace in spending so much money on a piece of audio equipment from China. They certainly could have made it cheaper, but they did not spare expense in materials or finish quality and that is worth paying a reasonable premium to me!

I've had my hands on some extremely expensive equipment (Nagra, MSB, Boulder, Soulution, Constellation, Luxman et. al.) and the quality of finish work on this Holo is directly comparable to any of those!


----------



## Larry Man (Sep 22, 2021)

Hello All,

I have received my Spring 3 KTE today and from the get-go it already sound more vivid (in a good perspective) than the Level 1 i had earlier on. The whole unit feels smoother and seem producing more energy even with low volume. After proper break-in it should perform even nicer. Titanis 2 USB does provide much higher resolution boost from the standard USB module with my setup. And the USB module in my KTE is the newest "Gen2.1 Enhanced" version (two versions available :  "Gen2.1 Standard" and "Gen2.1 Enhanced").

There is a new firmware (V31.28) for both USB Gen 2.1 modules available in Kitsune's site and also the V5.20 USB driver is now available (The V5.20 driver set now added 32-bit sampling rates in Windows sound setup if you care). In case you have trouble entering into USB "configuration mode" during firmware update, make sure you first turn off the Preamplifier you connected the Spring 3 DAC to.

Cheers


----------



## Mkoll

Larry Man said:


> And the USB module in my KTE is the newest "Gen2.1 Enhanced" version (two versions available : "Gen2.1 Standard" and "Gen2.1 Enhanced").


Wouldn‘t all Spring 3 KTEs have the same USB module? Are there units without the Enhanced module?


----------



## KenMan85

Mkoll said:


> Wouldn‘t all Spring 3 KTEs have the same USB module? Are there units without the Enhanced module?


yes those before mid august production


----------



## KenMan85

New asio and new firmware installed. Curious what changes were made


----------



## Delta9K (Sep 22, 2021)

Mkoll said:


> Wouldn‘t all Spring 3 KTEs have the same USB module? Are there units without the Enhanced module?


Paraphrased from my telephone conversation with Tim at Kitsune HiFi (Holo Audio USA).

The new module improves sound quality for those using AMD chipsets by addressing the known issues for dsd1024 and pcm1.536Mhz with AMD chipsets. Other sample rates will be the same sound quality and no differences will be heard. Both usb modules use the same titanis 2.0 chipset too! Both modules measure the same! There is a special chip we had to create to do the proper translations to allow for handshakes for the higher sample rates to occur with AMD chipsets, Intel chipsets are not affected.

The enhanced usb module doesn't have sound quality improvements except for the ability to do dsd1024 and pcm1.536Mhz. Which is an improvement for those who use these high resolution sample rates and are on the AMD platform. However this a small percentage of users. If you are not going to use DSD1024 and PCM1536K on an AMD chipset then no need to update.

So basically, if you use an Intel machine as your source, upsampling with the higher rates already works fine on Intel, or you are using an AMD machine as your source and are not going to do upsampling, then there is no difference for you what module you have.


----------



## Larry Man

Thanks Delta9K


----------



## toddrhodes

Yea, that's a really nice breakdown. My May KTE supposedly has the enhanced USB module but I've no idea what that really entailed previously. And it doesn't impact me either way, so no need to wonder further. Thank you.


----------



## KenMan85

Delta9K said:


> Paraphrased from my telephone conversation with Tim at Kitsune HiFi (Holo Audio USA).
> 
> The new module improves sound quality for those using AMD chipsets by addressing the known issues for dsd1024 and pcm1.536Mhz with AMD chipsets. Other sample rates will be the same sound quality and no differences will be heard. Both usb modules use the same titanis 2.0 chipset too! Both modules measure the same! There is a special chip we had to create to do the proper translations to allow for handshakes for the higher sample rates to occur with AMD chipsets, Intel chipsets are not affected.
> 
> ...


It matters if your using any non intel chip, not just AMD. So if you're using a pi streamer in the chain etc it will limit you


----------



## Smallpie

Is there any problem using both xLr and RCA outputs at the same time? plug them into separate amps at the same time so I can compare two amps very easily.


----------



## koso

Akiravelvet said:


> Is there any problem using both xLr and RCA outputs at the same time? plug them into separate amps at the same time so I can compare two amps very easily.


No problem to use both!


----------



## whirlwind

Delta9K said:


> Paraphrased from my telephone conversation with Tim at Kitsune HiFi (Holo Audio USA).
> 
> The new module improves sound quality for those using AMD chipsets by addressing the known issues for dsd1024 and pcm1.536Mhz with AMD chipsets. Other sample rates will be the same sound quality and no differences will be heard. Both usb modules use the same titanis 2.0 chipset too! Both modules measure the same! There is a special chip we had to create to do the proper translations to allow for handshakes for the higher sample rates to occur with AMD chipsets, Intel chipsets are not affected.
> 
> ...


Great info....thanks.


----------



## KenMan85

Is there a change log for the new firmware?


----------



## GoldenOne

Here's my review of the spring 3 with some comparison to spring 2 and may:


----------



## koso

GoldenOne said:


> Here's my review of the spring 3 with some comparison to spring 2 and may:



Thanks for this great review. Especially comparison with Spring 2 and May is interesting and valuable. Made my day little bit less boring. I just underwent gallbladder surgery 4 days ago, so I'm at home and resting.


----------



## axsnyder

Between this thread and Cameron’s review I’m $3,900 lighter. I was pretty much sold on this DAC weeks ago, but Cameron’s argument for adding the preamp put me over the top for the loaded version


----------



## ctrlm

I've been waiting patiently for this GoldenSound Spring 3 KTE review, my unit should be up and running in my speaker setup by next weekend (fingers crossed) and there is nothing like a little confirmation bias to help things along 

I haven't gone with the preamp option as I have been more than happy with my Musical Fidelity M6 500i integrated amp for a long time now and I have zero motivation to start making changes in that area.


----------



## tomita

@GoldenOne will you also post the full measurements?


----------



## kingoftown1

2 hours in, l2, can tell this is going to be special.  It has some of the same characteristics of furutech rhodium pre-burn in (though fwir the spring won't be quite the roller coaster)


----------



## ShangriLa

Is this magnahifi dot com a legitmate site to buy May/Spring 3 from ?


----------



## Delta9K

ShangriLa said:


> Is this magnahifi dot com a legitmate site to buy May/Spring 3 from ?


Yes, they are the goto if you are in EU.


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 1, 2021)

ShangriLa said:


> Is this magnahifi dot com a legitmate site to buy May/Spring 3 from ?


Magna Hi-Fi is not only an authorized dealer for Holo Audio products, they are also the European distributor. I purchased both my Spring 3 KTE and Level 1 from them. Fantastic technical advises and product services by Jos's team ! Swift Shipping by DHL Express from Netherland to Canada arrived within 3 business days.


----------



## ShangriLa

Delta9K said:


> Yes, they are the goto if you are in EU.





Larry Man said:


> Magna Hi-Fi is not only an authorized dealer for Holo Audio products, they are also the European distributor. I purchased both my Spring 3 KTE and Level 1 from them. Fantastic technical advises and product services by Jos's team ! Swift Shipping by DHL Express from Netherland to Canada arrived within 3 business days.



Thanks guys! That's assuring to know. They seem to have the units in stock. Perhaps I can order from them instead of Kitsuni to avoid the wait time although I'm in the US.


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 2, 2021)

ShangriLa said:


> Thanks guys! That's assuring to know. They seem to have the units in stock. Perhaps I can order from them instead of Kitsuni to avoid the wait time although I'm in the US.


Their product stock status usually reflects very accurately on their web site, but i believe they have temporarily sold out due to high demands. You can email Jos and confirm the inventory or wait time before you place your order. They responded to inquiries very promptly.

By the way, there is a button on the top of the screen to toggle off the VAT so it will show the proper listing prices in Euro. Or the VAT will be automatically taken off when you enter USA as shipping country selection during checkout process.

Magna Hi-Fi will help adjust the AC power to 110V for American buyers before shipping. And the Spring 3 i received is exactly the same unit as those ordered from Kitsune, except the European version don't include power cord (most of us use better power cables anyway). And the Holo Audio fuse come with the unit is with 2A spec (Holo suggests 4A for AC 110V) but it has been working perfectly fine for my two units and Magna tested and confirmed this as well. I have anyway replaced the fuse with Synergistic Research Orange fuse and i personally love the result of SR Orange with my Spring 3.

Good luck ordering ShangriLa !


----------



## Hummer25

Delta9K said:


> Yes, they are the goto if you are in EU.


How does the Holo compare to the Soekris DAC Delta9K. I have heard the Soekris in my own system and it was not bad. The Holo Spring 3 by all accounts looks like a step up?


----------



## Delta9K (Oct 2, 2021)

Hummer25 said:


> I have heard the Soekris in my own system and it was not bad. The Holo Spring 3 by all accounts looks like a step up?


Was the Holo a step up? IMO yes. Some of the stand out differences for myself, were: A blacker background, the soundstage is larger, particularly the height. Improved detail, better precision, bass is tighter with more 'clean' weight. Overall, the KTE Spring 3 just has (to me) a much fuller sound. The midrange is wonderful, effortless, treble detailed but smooth. I’ve noticed that with the Spring that listening even at low volume is pleasing, something that I can’t always do with the Soekris, sometimes I feel I need just a little a little more to flesh everything out of my music with that DAC.

A lot of these differences may be due to chain synergy, signature preference and music tastes. The Spring 3 sounds better to me when matched to the v550. That amp leans a tad more neutral than the v281. The warmth from the Spring was a bit much with the warmer v281 (all subjective and relative to the listener). The Soekris dac1541 sounds much better with the v281 for the opposite reason, in that its cooler leaning signature compliments the v281 and they make and excellent pairing.

The Soekris is great piece of kit. Is the Holo DAC better? Technically, yes. Sonically, I believe so for myself it is. Is it worth the $1.5-2k difference? Again, for myself, yes. For others – I can’t answer.


----------



## Hummer25

Delta9K said:


> Was the Holo a step up? IMO yes. Some of the stand out differences for myself, were: A blacker background, the soundstage is larger, particularly the height. Improved detail, better precision, bass is tighter with more 'clean' weight. Overall, the KTE Spring 3 just has (to me) a much fuller sound. The midrange is wonderful, effortless, treble detailed but smooth. I’ve noticed that with the Spring that listening even at low volume is pleasing, something that I can’t always do with the Soekris, sometimes I feel I need just a little a little more to flesh everything out of my music with that DAC.
> 
> A lot of these differences may be due to chain synergy, signature preference and music tastes. The Spring 3 sounds better to me when matched to the v550. That amp leans a tad more neutral than the v281. The warmth from the Spring was a bit much with the warmer v281 (all subjective and relative to the listener). The Soekris dac1541 sounds much better with the v281 for the opposite reason, in that its cooler leaning signature compliments the v281 and they make and excellent pairing.
> 
> The Soekris is great piece of kit. Is the Holo DAC better? Technically, yes. Sonically, I believe so for myself it is. Is it worth the $1.5-2k difference? Again, for myself, yes. For others – I can’t answer.


Thanks for your reply. I feel without actual being able to try any of the Holo DACs in my system from what I am reading this is where I would put my money. The midrange performance is critical to me as I like flesh on the bone where so many DACs can be on the thinner side tonaly. As you say system synergy can be critical to get the performance you are looking for so it is always in the end a matter of suck it and see as very few people run exactly the same set up especially when using speakers and amps rather than cans.


----------



## koso

Larry Man said:


> I have anyway replaced the fuse with Synergistic Research Orange fuse and i personally love the result of SR Orange with my Spring 3.


I am also considering to try SR Orange in my Spring 3 KTE, but was told that Holo fuse is very good too. It is audible difference? Can you please explain what sound benefit has Orange fuse comparing to the original Holo fuse?


----------



## KenMan85

koso said:


> I am also considering to try SR Orange in my Spring 3 KTE, but was told that Holo fuse is very good too. It is audible difference? Can you please explain what sound benefit has Orange fuse comparing to the original Holo fuse?


I use an SR Orange in my amp.


----------



## koso

KenMan85 said:


> I use an SR Orange in my amp.


I have SR Orange in my amp and streamer too. But I compared fuses with stock fuses there. Here in Spring 3 there is already audiophile fuse, so my question was if there is any significant upgrade from Holo to Orange fuse. SR Orange is not cheap, so thats why I am asking.


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 2, 2021)

koso said:


> I am also considering to try SR Orange in my Spring 3 KTE, but was told that Holo fuse is very good too. It is audible difference? Can you please explain what sound benefit has Orange fuse comparing to the original Holo fuse?


Hi koso,

Yes, in my setup the sonic differences between SR Orange fuse and Holo Audio Nano Red fuse are very audible. The fuses Holo Audio picked for their products are excellent as well, but i am very used to the sound from SR's Orange and this could due to my own preferences. If i am not mistaken, the fuses Holo Audio uses is made by Aucharm and the specs are very similar to this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000463109849.html  I am not a technical guy and only a music lover+an "audio hardware geek", so i am not in the position to comment on fuse performance, but these are my feedbacks. To me, one particular area SR Orange fuse stands out is the ability to reveal  more opened sound field and at the same time to retrieve the instrument details and effects in the music background. I feel that the difference it creates is like someone removed a set of enclosed speaker grills from your 2-channel speakers (i use speakers more than using headphone by the way). I installed SR Orange fuses in my Mcintosh solid state Preamp, Power Amp and the Linear Power Supply for my JCAT XE cards, the incremental sonic improvement are very enjoyable. I was in the beginning skeptical about fuse replacement could alter the sound of hi-fi gears, until my friend lend me his SR Blue fuse to try on my own system. I was amazed by the sonic improvement and have decided to make extensive tests on audiophile fuses for the last 3 months. I had tried many brands include some of the best rated ones like Power House Zero, SR Oranges and the made-to-order Audio Magic Ultimate Premier Beeswax fuses. I ended up keeping SR Oranges because the overall most suitable sonic characteristics with my system. Both the Audio Magic's and Power House's are nice but too warm and different dynamic as SR's for my like. So in the end i sold those fuses in Canuck's Audio Mart. I came from Asia and there is a huge market for audiophile fuses there compare to West Coast Canada. Nevetheless, both Holo Audio Red Nano fuses and SR Orange fuses are nice tweaks for my Spring 3. Just a matter of personal preferences. But i encourge you to try on your own Holo Audio DACs or preamp. The results should be favorable.

By the way, Synergistic Research has an even better performing fuse called SR "Purple" from mid-October. I bought my fuses from here: https://highend-electronics.com/collections/accessories/fuses
There are many customer's reviews you can read from this site under each fuse listing. And the owner Alfred can give you better technical advises.

Cheers !


----------



## ShangriLa

Larry Man said:


> Their product stock status usually reflects very accurately on their web site, but i believe they have temporarily sold out due to high demands. You can email Jos and confirm the inventory or wait time before you place your order. They responded to inquiries very promptly.
> 
> By the way, there is a button on the top of the screen to toggle off the VAT so it will show the proper listing prices in Euro. Or the VAT will be automatically taken off when you enter USA as shipping country selection during checkout process.
> 
> ...


Much appreciate that. Yeah I put the item in the cart to see US purchse price. And good reminder about the 110V AC power. Everything is looking great about the Spring 3 and resisting is getting futile..


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 2, 2021)

Hi All,

Does any of you connecting Spring 3 KTE (USB Gen 2.1) with JCAT USB XE Card like i do ? Have you had any problem upgrading to firmware V31.28 ? My KTE has been working flawless with firmware V31.26, but as soon as i upgraded to V31.28 the sound will intermittenly be distored and turned high-pitch static sound for 15-20 seconds then resume normal playback. With Magna Hi-Fi's assistance, Holo Audio developed V31.30 but with this new firmware the problem still persist (V31.30 is available today on Kitsune's download site by the way). I tried to connect the Titanis 2.0 USB directly to my PC's native USB connectors (disconnected from JCAT USB XE) and no issue at all for many hours now.

Just want to see if anyone of you is experiencing the same issue and possibly share your solutions. I was told that Holo Audio has been working on the issue still but i have not heard back, and the cause of the issue remain unknown. So meanwhile i will stick with V31.26, but the future firmware upgrades will be carried forward and developed based on V31.30 though ....

Thanks


----------



## koso

Larry Man said:


> Hi koso,
> 
> Yes, in my setup the sonic differences between SR Orange fuse and Holo Audio Nano Red fuse are very audible. The fuses Holo Audio picked for their products are excellent as well, but i am very used to the sound from SR's Orange and this could due to my own preferences. If i am not mistaken, the fuses Holo Audio uses is made by Aucharm and the specs are very similar to this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000463109849.html  I am not a technical guy and only a music lover+an "audio hardware geek", so i am not in the position to comment on fuse performance, but these are my feedbacks. To me, one particular area SR Orange fuse stands out is the ability to reveal  more opened sound field and at the same time to retrieve the instrument details and effects in the music background. I feel that the difference it creates is like someone removed a set of enclosed speaker grills from your 2-channel speakers (i use speakers more than using headphone by the way). I installed SR Orange fuses in my Mcintosh solid state Preamp, Power Amp and the Linear Power Supply for my JCAT XE cards, the incremental sonic improvement are very enjoyable. I was in the beginning skeptical about fuse replacement could alter the sound of hi-fi gears, until my friend lend me his SR Blue fuse to try on my own system. I was amazed by the sonic improvement and have decided to make extensive tests on audiophile fuses for the last 3 months. I had tried many brands include some of the best rated ones like Power House Zero, SR Oranges and the made-to-order Audio Magic Ultimate Premier Beeswax fuses. I ended up keeping SR Oranges because the overall most suitable sonic characteristics with my system. Both the Audio Magic's and Power House's are nice but too warm and different dynamic as SR's for my like. So in the end i sold those fuses in Canuck's Audio Mart. I came from Asia and there is a huge market for audiophile fuses there compare to West Coast Canada. Nevetheless, both Holo Audio Red Nano fuses and SR Orange fuses are nice tweaks for my Spring 3. Just a matter of personal preferences. But i encourge you to try on your own Holo Audio DACs or preamp. The results should be favorable.
> 
> ...


Thanks for detailed info!! I will try it!


----------



## rocky500 (Oct 3, 2021)

koso said:


> I am also considering to try SR Orange in my Spring 3 KTE, but was told that Holo fuse is very good too. It is audible difference? Can you please explain what sound benefit has Orange fuse comparing to the original Holo fuse?


They have just released a new SR Purple fuse. I think it is $40 US more.
https://www.synergisticresearch.com/fuses/purple-fuse/

Whoops, I just realised Larry Man has already mentioned this.


----------



## LarsNL

Larry Man said:


> Hi koso,
> 
> Yes, in my setup the sonic differences between SR Orange fuse and Holo Audio Nano Red fuse are very audible. The fuses Holo Audio picked for their products are excellent as well, but i am very used to the sound from SR's Orange and this could due to my own preferences. If i am not mistaken, the fuses Holo Audio uses is made by Aucharm and the specs are very similar to this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000463109849.html  I am not a technical guy and only a music lover+an "audio hardware geek", so i am not in the position to comment on fuse performance, but these are my feedbacks. To me, one particular area SR Orange fuse stands out is the ability to reveal  more opened sound field and at the same time to retrieve the instrument details and effects in the music background. I feel that the difference it creates is like someone removed a set of enclosed speaker grills from your 2-channel speakers (i use speakers more than using headphone by the way). I installed SR Orange fuses in my Mcintosh solid state Preamp, Power Amp and the Linear Power Supply for my JCAT XE cards, the incremental sonic improvement are very enjoyable. I was in the beginning skeptical about fuse replacement could alter the sound of hi-fi gears, until my friend lend me his SR Blue fuse to try on my own system. I was amazed by the sonic improvement and have decided to make extensive tests on audiophile fuses for the last 3 months. I had tried many brands include some of the best rated ones like Power House Zero, SR Oranges and the made-to-order Audio Magic Ultimate Premier Beeswax fuses. I ended up keeping SR Oranges because the overall most suitable sonic characteristics with my system. Both the Audio Magic's and Power House's are nice but too warm and different dynamic as SR's for my like. So in the end i sold those fuses in Canuck's Audio Mart. I came from Asia and there is a huge market for audiophile fuses there compare to West Coast Canada. Nevetheless, both Holo Audio Red Nano fuses and SR Orange fuses are nice tweaks for my Spring 3. Just a matter of personal preferences. But i encourge you to try on your own Holo Audio DACs or preamp. The results should be favorable.
> 
> ...


Hello everyone,
Happy to join this forum, since I just received the Spring 3 KTE from Magna Hifi today. Burn in time has started..... 3 hours and ticking  
I have compared the Spring 3 KTE at Magna Hifi (I live in the Netherlands) against the May KTE, Audio GD R8 MK2 and my own Audio GD Reference 5.32 (modified) a few weeks ago. And yes, the May is better in pretty much every way, however, the Spring 3 fits my budget and setup (Wharfedale Elysian 2, Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 600).
Since I still have a SR Orange fuse laying around (from my now sold Cayin CS-55A), I would like to know what the ampere etc of the Holo Audio Red fuse is? SR Orange fuses are very good in my opinion.


----------



## cj3209 (Oct 5, 2021)

LarsNL said:


> Hello everyone,
> Happy to join this forum, since I just received the Spring 3 KTE from Magna Hifi today. Burn in time has started..... 3 hours and ticking
> I have compared the Spring 3 KTE at Magna Hifi (I live in the Netherlands) against the May KTE, Audio GD R8 MK2 and my own Audio GD Reference 5.32 (modified) a few weeks ago. And yes, the May is better in pretty much every way, however, the Spring 3 fits my budget and setup (Wharfedale Elysian 2, Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 600).
> Since I still have a SR Orange fuse laying around (from my now sold Cayin CS-55A), I would like to know what the ampere etc of the Holo Audio Red fuse is? SR Orange fuses are very good in my opinion.


The fuses are somewhat confusing:  size (0.75" or 1.25"), blow time (slow or fast), and amps.  Which ones are best for the Spring 3 KTE?


----------



## KenMan85

cj3209 said:


> The fuses are somewhat confusing:  size (0.75" or 1.25"), blow time (slow or fast), and amps.  Which ones are best for the Spring 3 KTE?


fast blow so the fuses blows up if theirs n issue before the over current hits later down the circuit path. 

always the smaller size in electronics like this. 

i dont know which amperage the fuse in the spring is though.


----------



## koso

cj3209 said:


> The fuses are somewhat confusing:  size (0.75" or 1.25"), blow time (slow or fast), and amps.  Which ones are best for the Spring 3 KTE?


Here is official fuse ratings for Holo Spring 3:

For Europe: 220-230V 50/60Hz - Fuse Type 2A Slow blow 5x20mm
For USA: 110-115V 50/60Hz - Fuse Type 4A Slow blow 5x20mm


----------



## LarsNL

koso said:


> Here is official fuse ratings for Holo Spring 3:
> 
> For Europe: 220-230V 50/60Hz - Fuse Type 2A Slow blow 5x20mm
> For USA: 110-115V 50/60Hz - Fuse Type 4A Slow blow 5x20mm


Thanks a lot for the quick reply Koso. Too bad the one I have laying around is 4A.... good for US but not EU ....


----------



## koso

LarsNL said:


> Thanks a lot for the quick reply Koso. Too bad the one I have laying around is 4A.... good for US but not EU ....


If you are going to use SR fuse Orange or  Blue or whatever, slightly higher rating is recommended (just one step abowe, 2,5A in this case). This is recommendation from official SR dealer, SR fuses are extremely sensitive. 4A is too much though.


----------



## LarsNL

koso said:


> If you are going to use SR fuse Orange or  Blue or whatever, slightly higher rating is recommended (just one step abowe, 2,5A in this case). This is recommendation from official SR dealer, SR fuses are extremely sensitive. 4A is too much though.


That is what the supplier in the Netherlands told me too, when I bought the Orange fuse for my Cayin CS-55A. Its original fuse is 3.15A (slow) and they recommended the 4A. Therefore I have the 4A laying around.


----------



## LarsNL

Just go an answer from Magna Hifi, they state that 4A is still ok. According to them, many people in the hifi world put a higher rating fuse (read thicker) as they think this will improve the SQ just a little bit more. Since I have the 4A already, and I have a IFI Power Station (filter) and in the Netherlands we hardly every have power surges or blackouts, I might go for the 4A. Would prefer 2,5A though.....


----------



## Mkoll

Are there some instructions/videos of fuse installation for the Spring 3? I don't have my Spring 3 yet and I've never installed a fuse before.


----------



## LarsNL

Mkoll said:


> Are there some instructions/videos of fuse installation for the Spring 3? I don't have my Spring 3 yet and I've never installed a fuse before.


Just pull out the fuse holder next to the power cable connector. Put the SR Orange fuse in with the “S” marking at the bottom and the “R” marking at the top. Magna Hifi has confirmed that a4A SR orange fuse is fine. So I just put my 4A SR Orange fuse in the Spring 3 KTE. Even though the S3 KTE has only 24 hours on it, I can hear a small difference in the fuses. Orange beats red    Will compare both fuses again after I have burned in the dac.


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 6, 2021)

Mkoll said:


> Are there some instructions/videos of fuse installation for the Spring 3? I don't have my Spring 3 yet and I've never installed a fuse before.


Hi Mkoll,

This link offers instructions of audio fuse fitting in 3 common senarios: https://www.russandrews.com/us/fitting-internal-fuses/

Or if you don't mind this video is in Chinese, the contents are easily understood anyway: 


The above video also mentioned the fuse orientation during installation. Please keep in kind that audiophile grade fuses are directional. Both the Holo Audio Red Nano fuses and Synergistic Research (SR) Orange fuses engaged the same physics. The regular Shurter fuses or Shurter gold fuses in the Spring 3 Level 1 & 2 are not that matter of fuse orientations. If you decide to also use the SR Orange fuse, when you look at the fuse, the "S" letter should follow the "Live" end of the AC power inlet. This is same as the instructions provided by the SR factory as well. Some may argue that but you can always simply try flipping both directions and see which one gives you more "detailed" sounding.

Please be advised that make sure you disconnect the AC power before you perform the fuse replacement, and this action is at your own risk ... risk of being too addited to the hobby 

Happy Listening !


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 6, 2021)

LarsNL said:


> Just pull out the fuse holder next to the power cable connector. Put the SR Orange fuse in with the “S” marking at the bottom and the “R” marking at the top. Magna Hifi has confirmed that a4A SR orange fuse is fine. So I just put my 4A SR Orange fuse in the Spring 3 KTE. Even though the S3 KTE has only 24 hours on it, I can hear a small difference in the fuses. Orange beats red    Will compare both fuses again after I have burned in the dac.


I have now 100+ hours in for my Spring 3 KTE teaming up with SR Orange fuse, the "clarity & detail retrieval" are improved further daily. Both the Spring 3 and the Orange are truly amazing audio inventions !


----------



## KenMan85 (Oct 6, 2021)

I have no idea if I installed my fuse correctly but it's been in there a year now lol

I think I made the power flow from R than out towards the S.


----------



## Mkoll

Thanks for the tips.

Just got my Spring 3 KTE in and I just gotta say, *wow!* I've never heard my music sound so good, it's not even close. This is the first really high-end DAC I've owned with the ADI-2 and Bifrost 2 being the two best DACs I've had. They don't hold a candle to the Spring 3 in any respect. I'm already super-impressed with the sound out of the box with just the stock cables. Really looking forward to how it sounds as it burns in and after a few smaller upgrades. Not to mention the build quality which is really outstanding.

Chain is USB > Spring 3 KTE > GS-X mini > Stellia.


----------



## XVampireX

Mkoll said:


> Thanks for the tips.
> 
> Just got my Spring 3 KTE in and I just gotta say, *wow!* I've never heard my music sound so good, it's not even close. This is the first really high-end DAC I've owned with the ADI-2 and Bifrost 2 being the two best DACs I've had. They don't hold a candle to the Spring 3 in any respect. I'm already super-impressed with the sound out of the box with just the stock cables. Really looking forward to how it sounds as it burns in and after a few smaller upgrades. Not to mention the build quality which is really outstanding.
> 
> Chain is USB > Spring 3 KTE > GS-X mini > Stellia.



Sounds good, though I'm coming from LKS MH-DA004 and up to May L3 KTE so it's still gonna be a super big jump, waiting for the Bliss as well, maybe/probably gonna bail on the Volot cause it seems like some people already have it but never really care to share their thoughts


----------



## Larry Man

KenMan85 said:


> I have no idea if I installed my fuse correctly but it's been in there a year now lol
> 
> I think I made the power flow from R than out towards the S.


Which side in your attached picture is the AC Socket ?


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 7, 2021)

XVampireX said:


> Sounds good, though I'm coming from LKS MH-DA004 and up to May L3 KTE so it's still gonna be a super big jump, waiting for the Bliss as well, maybe/probably gonna bail on the Volot cause it seems like some people already have it but never really care to share their thoughts


I stumbled and wasted much of my monies & time searching for the best possible sounding DAC i could afford to compliment my home PC Audio setup until recently I have discovered the DACs with R2R technology. Then after short ownerships of the Musician Pegasus and Aquarius, and contemplating on the Audio-GD R7 MKII, i finally made my seemingly right choice of the Holo Audio Spring 3. So far i trust this is my best decison made in investing in audio for the money. Before that I've also owned many Delta-Sigma DACs with highly appraised reviewes by both experts and consumers, like Gustard X26 Pro, SMSL VMV D1se and Cary Audio DMS-550 & DMS-700 (these are streaming DACs). I ened up selling them all to friends or in Canuck's Audio Mart. I like the Cary DMS-700 very much though, it has an on-board PCM & DSD Hardware Oversampling feature which is now only available in May DAC but missing from the Spring 3. Nevertheless, after now 130+ hours of burn-in on my Spring 3, the micro/macro details & dynamics in the music are unbelievable. Feel like the positive effects are increased further when more hours in. Never before listening to my favorable tracks are like digging into treasures.

I personally found that this particular forum is filled with gentlemen. I tried sharing my experiences and tips on DACs in two other forums, i received mostly abuses and attacks and turned into being lectured. I didn't have time for those headaches and shut myself up and quit. And most of them believing in "measurements", unfortunately i am only a music lover who without an engineering degree.

Thank you all here in this precious forum !


----------



## KenMan85

Larry Man said:


> Which side in your attached picture is the AC Socket ?


Uhm what ll I know the light only goes on with a connection. 

So the light is later in the chain. So I put the S on light side


----------



## Larry Man

KenMan85 said:


> Uhm what ll I know the light only goes on with a connection.
> 
> So the light is later in the chain. So I put the S on light side


Finding out the direction of AC current travel in your amp can help fitting the orientation of fuse. Can you zoom out the picture and include the AC socket part ?


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 7, 2021)

KenMan85 said:


> Uhm what ll I know the light only goes on with a connection.
> 
> So the light is later in the chain. So I put the S on light side


Hi KenMan85,

If your headphone amp looks like the picture i attached here, the SR Orange fuse was installed correctly. Cheers !


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 7, 2021)

Larry Man said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Does any of you connecting Spring 3 KTE (USB Gen 2.1) with JCAT USB XE Card like i do ? Have you had any problem upgrading to firmware V31.28 ? My KTE has been working flawless with firmware V31.26, but as soon as i upgraded to V31.28 the sound will intermittenly be distored and turned high-pitch static sound for 15-20 seconds then resume normal playback. With Magna Hi-Fi's assistance, Holo Audio developed V31.30 but with this new firmware the problem still persist (V31.30 is available today on Kitsune's download site by the way). I tried to connect the Titanis 2.0 USB directly to my PC's native USB connectors (disconnected from JCAT USB XE) and no issue at all for many hours now.
> 
> ...


Interestingly, I believe the distorted sound issue on my Spring 3 KTE + JCAT USB XE combo with firmware version V31.30 was solved. I have not changed anything at all in my setup these few days except installing the Windows 11 Preview build version 21H2 over my Windows 10 on Monday evening. I signed up for the Windows Insider program and Microsoft team sent me this to test (You can sign up anytime for the same prebuild testing too). After Windows 11 was installed, many new Windows Drivers for the USB controllers and other peripherals were updated as well. I was suspecting it could be caused by the driver conflict issue between the AS media USB 3.1 xtensible controller hub built into the JCAT USB XE and Holo Audio's drivers. There must be a reason for  when i reported the problem to Jos @Magna Hi-Fi, he replied to me and asked on behalf of the Holo Audio tech support if i was running Windows version 21H1 or 21H2.

Anyway, who cares about the real cause ... maybe my wife injected a timed bug to my audio gears to save our pockets ... my Spring 3 had five straight hours of music playing with firmware V31.30 today and it performed as smooth as it should be.

Back to Music with my lovely Spring 3 now  ... i envy those May DAC owners


----------



## dermott

Is the only difference between the Level 1 and Level 2 the remote control? So, it's a $300 remote control? Did I get that right?


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 9, 2021)

dermott said:


> Is the only difference between the Level 1 and Level 2 the remote control? So, it's a $300 remote control? Did I get that right?


Additionals on Level 2: *HoloAudio Caps, Schurter Gold Fuse, CNC Remote Control.*

Holo Audio Remote itself retails for $73.55 Euro (about $85 USD). https://magnahifi.com/holo-audio-remote-control/

I had a Spring 3 Level 1 first and then later upgraded to KTE (because i mainly use USB connection to my PC, so Titanis 2 USB Module is too tempting for me ). In my perspective, the Level 1 already sounds better than 90% of DACs for sale currently in the market, either by R2R or delta-sigma's designs. My cousin has a Spring 3 Level 2 and to be honest i couldn't tell the audio differences side-by-side with my previous Spring Level 1. And the fuse Holo Audio uses for all level cost less than $15 USD each (The Red Nano fuse on KTE retails for $28 USD ($20+$8 shipping) quoted by Kitsune ... but the Red Nano fuse is strictly for KTE owners to purchase as replacement with proof of ownership). So $300 difference is mostly for the sake of the Remote (which i found not useful for my PC Audio Desktop setup, but it will serve the convenience for Hi-Fi Rack setup though). Despite this particular remote was designed in favor of the MAY DACs, but it is also good for Spring 3 owners who choose the optional Preamp module, so you get to mute or control the volume using the remote. Keep in mind the "Mode" and "Output" buttons on the remote are not applicable to Sping 3 owners expecially the Oversampling feature was eliminated, and the "Input" button could be handy for people who uses many inputs and perform switching frequently.

So if not going for the KTE model because of the upgraded USB module, my recomendation is to go for a level 1 and buy the SR Orange fuse ($150 USD) and not to worry about the remote. This should save you $150 USD in the pocket.


----------



## dermott

Larry Man said:


> Additionals on Level 2: *HoloAudio Caps, Schurter Gold Fuse, CNC Remote Control.*
> 
> Holo Audio Remote itself retails for $73.55 Euro (about $85 USD). https://magnahifi.com/holo-audio-remote-control/
> 
> ...


Thanks for this! What if a guy had a Burson Soloist 3XP being used in Power Amp Mode, and therefore needed the DAC to have volume control. Would the L1 still be able to do that? I assume it would be via the buttons on the front panel if so. Unless you have a desktop listening station (as I do not - comfy chair a short bit away from the rig), one would need the remote to adjust volume used in this configuration (I think).


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 9, 2021)

dermott said:


> Thanks for this! What if a guy had a Burson Soloist 3XP being used in Power Amp Mode, and therefore needed the DAC to have volume control. Would the L1 still be able to do that? I assume it would be via the buttons on the front panel if so. Unless you have a desktop listening station (as I do not - comfy chair a short bit away from the rig), one would need the remote to adjust volume used in this configuration (I think).


For Level 1 you can also add the Preamp module ($600 option). But you don't get the remote control in Level 1 package unfortunately.

As far as i know the front panels are identical on the Spring 3, with or without the Preamp, but there are arrow buttons on the right side of the panel to serve volume function. So if you go for Level 1 then you can only adjust the volume from the front panel without the luxury of controling from the remote. In your setup, Level 2 with Preamp is best investment


----------



## KenMan85

dermott said:


> Thanks for this! What if a guy had a Burson Soloist 3XP being used in Power Amp Mode, and therefore needed the DAC to have volume control. Would the L1 still be able to do that? I assume it would be via the buttons on the front panel if so. Unless you have a desktop listening station (as I do not - comfy chair a short bit away from the rig), one would need the remote to adjust volume used in this configuration (I think).


You would want the level 2 with pre amp


----------



## dermott

KenMan85 said:


> You would want the level 2 with pre amp


Well, I want the Level 3 with pre amp, but you know what they say about money and trees....


----------



## dermott

KenMan85 said:


> You would want the level 2 with pre amp


All jokes aside, thanks for this and you are right. I have a new Arya V2 arriving next week and I am looking down the road to the inevitable upgrade of both my amp and dac. Just trying to keep it all within reason. I definitely want to get a R2R dac and the Holo Spring 3 is what I want. What I feel comfortable spending is probably closer to the Denafrips Ares II or likely as far as the Pontus II. I am struggling with my amp choice as well. Looking at Class A. Would really like to get a Burson Soloist 3XP, but probably will end up with a FA-12. How does your Arya sound with the Holo in the mix?


----------



## KenMan85

dermott said:


> All jokes aside, thanks for this and you are right. I have a new Arya V2 arriving next week and I am looking down the road to the inevitable upgrade of both my amp and dac. Just trying to keep it all within reason. I definitely want to get a R2R dac and the Holo Spring 3 is what I want. What I feel comfortable spending is probably closer to the Denafrips Ares II or likely as far as the Pontus II. I am struggling with my amp choice as well. Looking at Class A. Would really like to get a Burson Soloist 3XP, but probably will end up with a FA-12. How does your Arya sound with the Holo in the mix?


I'm a fan of my system.  To be fair I haven't met anyone who isn't. 

Though I'll admit the new Arya isn't for me.


----------



## dermott

KenMan85 said:


> I'm a fan of my system.  To be fair I haven't met anyone who isn't.
> 
> Though I'll admit the new Arya isn't for me.


When you say new, are you referring to the V3/Stealth magnet version? If so, is that in comparison to the V2?


----------



## KenMan85

dermott said:


> When you say new, are you referring to the V3/Stealth magnet version? If so, is that in comparison to the V2?


Yes I have the current revision of the Arya.   And it's amazing.  Stealth gave up what the Arya did special.  Space and stage.


----------



## Aquileolus

dermott said:


> All jokes aside, thanks for this and you are right. I have a new Arya V2 arriving next week and I am looking down the road to the inevitable upgrade of both my amp and dac. Just trying to keep it all within reason. I definitely want to get a R2R dac and the Holo Spring 3 is what I want. What I feel comfortable spending is probably closer to the Denafrips Ares II or likely as far as the Pontus II. I am struggling with my amp choice as well. Looking at Class A. Would really like to get a Burson Soloist 3XP, but probably will end up with a FA-12. How does your Arya sound with the Holo in the mix?


I'm listening to the exact combo right now! 
Holo Spring 3 KTE w/ preamp -> Burson Soloist 3xp power amp mode -> Hifiman Arya V2, and I like it very much! It sounds so real and effortless and the stage is very big


----------



## KojiCO

Aquileolus said:


> I'm listening to the exact combo right now!
> Holo Spring 3 KTE w/ preamp -> Burson Soloist 3xp power amp mode -> Hifiman Arya V2, and I like it very much! It sounds so real and effortless and the stage is very big


----------



## dermott

Aquileolus said:


> I'm listening to the exact combo right now!
> Holo Spring 3 KTE w/ preamp -> Burson Soloist 3xp power amp mode -> Hifiman Arya V2, and I like it very much! It sounds so real and effortless and the stage is very big


So, after telling them *twice* and being reassured by the retailer that the V2 version is what I would be receiving, my Aryas were delivered last night and they have the Stealth Magnet Version sticker on the box (V3)! Those over in the Arya thread are reassuring me (mostly) that I can't go wrong either way, but having the V3 in my possession changes things. My concern is about the reported shrinking of the soundstage compared to the V2. However, it does seem to also have a lot of nice reported qualities regarding the issues that the V2 had that were addressed (more even FR, more warmth and fullness, etc.). They are also reported to be much easier to drive, which leaves more options for amp pairing. Now I am stuck with the decision to just keep then or raise a stink with the retailer. Does the Burson/Holo combo cure the issues with V2 in your opinion? Do you have other cans that you can speak to with the Burson/Holo combo and what is does for them? My current cans are LCD-2 prefazor (old school), so I was wanting to maximize my soundstage potential to have something different, but now I am in a bit of a pickle.


----------



## KenMan85

dermott said:


> So, after telling them *twice* and being reassured by the retailer that the V2 version is what I would be receiving, my Aryas were delivered last night and they have the Stealth Magnet Version sticker on the box (V3)! Those over in the Arya thread are reassuring me (mostly) that I can't go wrong either way, but having the V3 in my possession changes things. My concern is about the reported shrinking of the soundstage compared to the V2. However, it does seem to also have a lot of nice reported qualities regarding the issues that the V2 had that were addressed (more even FR, more warmth and fullness, etc.). They are also reported to be much easier to drive, which leaves more options for amp pairing. Now I am stuck with the decision to just keep then or raise a stink with the retailer. Does the Burson/Holo combo cure the issues with V2 in your opinion? Do you have other cans that you can speak to with the Burson/Holo combo and what is does for them? My current cans are LCD-2 prefazor (old school), so I was wanting to maximize my soundstage potential to have something different, but now I am in a bit of a pickle.


I'd want what I paid for. That's me though.


----------



## Aquileolus

dermott said:


> So, after telling them *twice* and being reassured by the retailer that the V2 version is what I would be receiving, my Aryas were delivered last night and they have the Stealth Magnet Version sticker on the box (V3)! Those over in the Arya thread are reassuring me (mostly) that I can't go wrong either way, but having the V3 in my possession changes things. My concern is about the reported shrinking of the soundstage compared to the V2. However, it does seem to also have a lot of nice reported qualities regarding the issues that the V2 had that were addressed (more even FR, more warmth and fullness, etc.). They are also reported to be much easier to drive, which leaves more options for amp pairing. Now I am stuck with the decision to just keep then or raise a stink with the retailer. Does the Burson/Holo combo cure the issues with V2 in your opinion? Do you have other cans that you can speak to with the Burson/Holo combo and what is does for them? My current cans are LCD-2 prefazor (old school), so I was wanting to maximize my soundstage potential to have something different, but now I am in a bit of a pickle.


I don't feel V2 bother me anyhow, I also use my TT2 to drive V2 directly, and I'm not bothered by brightness or less fullness, I also have ZMF VC and Aeolus, they are definitely warmer than V2, but I still go to V2 regularly just for that open and large feeling... if I have to say one thing bother me a little is they are really a bit harder to drive for OTL tube amps, so I normally just drive them with SS amps


----------



## dermott

Aquileolus said:


> I don't feel V2 bother me anyhow, I also use my TT2 to drive V2 directly, and I'm not bothered by brightness or less fullness, I also have ZMF VC and Aeolus, they are definitely warmer than V2, but I still go to V2 regularly just for that open and large feeling... if I have to say one thing bother me a little is they are really a bit harder to drive for OTL tube amps, so I normally just drive them with SS amps


Yeah, solid state all the way from what I gather with the V2. Class A especially with lots of power preferred. Over on the Arya thread, there are some that really like R2R with the Arya as it compliments the high end, but some lower priced offerings like Ares II can have somewhat bloated bass, even with great amps like Burson Soloist. From what everyone says about Holo Spring 3, almost all of your fears/concerns go away. And for the 0.0001% that are not, there is the May. But the prices - sheesh!


----------



## thecrow

zorilon said:


> I also us
> 
> I also plug the power cord directly in the wall. I tried last night to use a power filter that I have but to my ears it didn’t sound different.
> I started to believe more and more that Holo May is very revealing on the recording itself.
> ...


Hi. I’ve been reading some of your posts of may v spring. 

Wondering, now that some time has past, how do you view the may v spring 

I have the us4 that I use with the metrum hex nos dac and I have always enjoyed the metrum with no need at all to change it. 
But I read about the may and I’m curious about it. 
As mentioned my dac is fantastic and I have no need to change it all but I am pleasantly ignorant about the holo spring gear yet curious if it would improve on my gear and I wonder how much better could it get?


----------



## solfanger

is there a global or a holo dealer that ships to middle east ?
 thanks a bunch !


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## XVampireX (Oct 14, 2021)

solfanger said:


> is there a global or a holo dealer that ships to middle east ?
> thanks a bunch !


Wildism Audio - https://www.facebook.com/wildismaudiohk/
You need to talk to him on Facebook for the order, he's quick to respond.
Or by Email: wildismaudio@yahoo.com.hk


----------



## Womaz

Would love some guidance 
I am looking at getting the Niimbus US5 Pro to drive my 1266TCs.
Due to a tight budget I was just going to go for a Qutest at first but I am considering the Spring 3 DAC Level 1.
Would it be a good match with the Niimbus?


----------



## Mkoll

Sadly, my new Spring 3 KTE has developed what sounds like transformer hum while it's on whereas it was completely quiet before. I sit pretty close to my audio equipment in a quiet room so the hum is loud and disturbing; even wearing the closed-back Stellia I can hear it. I tried different power cables and outlets/electrical circuits with no luck. I've contacted Kitsune about it and hopefully they get back to me soon.

Has anyone else run into this problem?


----------



## KenMan85

That sucks.  Paying what we did for our gear I'd be pissed off if it was flawed


----------



## rocky500

KenMan85 said:


> That sucks.  Paying what we did for our gear I'd be pissed off if it was flawed


I would think these things happen somewhat when sourcing new components for building your device.
If there is a problem, then it comes down to how good the company does to remedy this that is most important.
Bummer though.


----------



## kumar402

Mkoll said:


> Sadly, my new Spring 3 KTE has developed what sounds like transformer hum while it's on whereas it was completely quiet before. I sit pretty close to my audio equipment in a quiet room so the hum is loud and disturbing; even wearing the closed-back Stellia I can hear it. I tried different power cables and outlets/electrical circuits with no luck. I've contacted Kitsune about it and hopefully they get back to me soon.
> 
> Has anyone else run into this problem?


Are you in 110v or 220v region?


----------



## Mkoll

I'm annoyed, but not angry. I understand these things can happen with any product and I just happened to draw the short straw. Whether I get angry or am satisfied will depend on the customer service I receive. Besides occasional slow response times, I've only heard good things about Kitsune's customer service and hopefully that applies here.



kumar402 said:


> Are you in 110v or 220v region?


110v (USA)


----------



## koso

Mkoll said:


> Sadly, my new Spring 3 KTE has developed what sounds like transformer hum while it's on whereas it was completely quiet before. I sit pretty close to my audio equipment in a quiet room so the hum is loud and disturbing; even wearing the closed-back Stellia I can hear it. I tried different power cables and outlets/electrical circuits with no luck. I've contacted Kitsune about it and hopefully they get back to me soon.
> 
> Has anyone else run into this problem?


I had exactly the same problem with my Spring 3 KTE, right from the beginning.
From very first time I have powered unit ON, there was very audible transformer hum. Initially Magna HiFi (distributor) suggested that it was DC offset problem. After I explained, that I already have decent DC blocker in the power chain (Isotek Syncro uni) and no other transformer has hum issue, Magna HiFi managed to replace my unit for the new one. Very quick swap. Kudos to Magna HiFi.
But anyway it is quite disturbing to hear that this problem affected more units. Hope your unit (or transformer in it) will be repleced ASAP, because this type of issue in this price and quality range is not acceptable at all.


----------



## KerrangZ

koso said:


> I had exactly the same problem with my Spring 3 KTE, right from the beginning.
> From very first time I have powered unit ON, there was very audible transformer hum. Initially Magna HiFi (distributor) suggested that it was DC offset problem. After I explained, that I already have decent DC blocker in the power chain (Isotek Syncro uni) and no other transformer has hum issue, Magna HiFi managed to replace my unit for the new one. Very quick swap. Kudos to Magna HiFi.
> But anyway it is quite disturbing to hear that this problem affected more units. Hope your unit (or transformer in it) will be repleced ASAP, because this type of issue in this price and quality range is not acceptable at all.


Hi, I noticed that you have the Venus II and Spring KTE, can you give me your impressions on differences and strengths? I’m into progressive rock, electronic/edm and soundtrack music and have both these dacs on my radar. Thanks!


----------



## koso (Oct 17, 2021)

KerrangZ said:


> Hi, I noticed that you have the Venus II and Spring KTE, can you give me your impressions on differences and strengths? I’m into progressive rock, electronic/edm and soundtrack music and have both these dacs on my radar. Thanks!


I can post updated version of my comparison between the two (previously posted in Denafrips thread here at Head-fi):

Everything you will find in the following comparison applies to my own stereo setup (see signature) in my listening area and pair of my own ears. I have not tested these dacs on any other setup and it is possible that the results of the comparison may be different in another setup or/and in another listening space. All comparison was made in NOS mode on both devices (I have to mention I don’t care if Venus II is “true” NOS or not) with same cabling and same input (I2S).

Denafrips Venus II is exactly in the same price and quality range as Spring 3 KTE. You can consider these two as direct competitors. And indeed, in many areas these two DACs are surprisingly close in sound quality. Very close in fact.
Firstly I will name the areas and characteristics which are almost the same on both:
-great dynamics and punch
-rich harmonics
-very good and similar sized soundstage
-great timing
-very good detail retrieval
-VERY realistic rendering of human voices
-universal, great for rock, jazz, electronic or classical
-no sign of brightness or dryness on highs






And now I'll try to explain the differences. And note that all following differences are subtle.
Venus II is smoother and overall sound is more fluid. At first I thought it was caused by over emphasize lower midrange and mid-bass region on Venus side. But after long listening session (and dozen switching between Spring 3 to Venus II with the same music material) I realized that it is not exactly the case here. The amount of bass, mid-bass and low midrange is quite the same on both DACs, but bodies of acoustic instruments (double bass, violin, Spanish guitar) and human voices are little bit bigger and fuller on Venus II. On the other hand same instruments and voices on Spring 3 are in better focus. So maybe more focused individual instruments and voices lead to less sense of overall smoothness. On more complex recordings this is not apparent after first listening, but on recordings where there is only one or two acoustic instrument (solo double bass with guitar for example) Venus II sounds more full bodied, filling all listening place, while Spring 3 sound little bit thiner, but with better pinpoint location of instruments. Even if sound character difference is subtle you instantly know which DAC is playing. It is not easy to explain it clearly. Lets give you another simile. When I am listening to Spring 3 I have that feeling as if mics in the recording studio were closer to instruments comparing to Venus II (if that makes any sense to you). So Spring 3 is bit more precise, or you can say “true” or transparent and Venus II is bit more relaxed and sweet.

There is no clear winner between Spring 3 and Venus II. Both are excellent DACs. Venus II is little bit more full bodied and sweet sounding, but never too sweet (as for example my previous DAC Simaudio Moon 380D was). On the other hand Spring 3 is clearly more transparent, truer to source material, which is very useful quality at all and especially for future changes of any gear in your setup. Another advantage of Spring 3 is fabulous USB input, so there is no need to use DDC. (For sake of this comparison, I2S input on both DACs was used, because direct USB input from Aurender streamer would not be fair, as Venus II has USB input which is far inferior to USB module in Spring 3 KTE. I2S input on both is very good though.)
Both DACs share many great sound characteristic and differences are not big enough to name the winner.
All this of course, as I wrote at the beginning, could be system dependent, because amplification, speakers and not least - listening room, plays a big role in final quality and character of sound.


----------



## Mkoll

koso said:


> I had exactly the same problem with my Spring 3 KTE, right from the beginning.
> From very first time I have powered unit ON, there was very audible transformer hum. Initially Magna HiFi (distributor) suggested that it was DC offset problem. After I explained, that I already have decent DC blocker in the power chain (Isotek Syncro uni) and no other transformer has hum issue, Magna HiFi managed to replace my unit for the new one. Very quick swap. Kudos to Magna HiFi.
> But anyway it is quite disturbing to hear that this problem affected more units. Hope your unit (or transformer in it) will be repleced ASAP, because this type of issue in this price and quality range is not acceptable at all.


Thanks for sharing. I don't have a DC blocker in my chain, but like you none of my other components have ever had any transformer hum. It sounds like your new unit is free from hum?

I'm hoping Kitsune matches Magna's service.


----------



## KotBegemot

Larry Man said:


> I stumbled and wasted much of my monies & time searching for the best possible sounding DAC i could afford to compliment my home PC Audio setup until recently I have discovered the DACs with R2R technology. Then after short ownerships of the Musician Pegasus and Aquarius, and contemplating on the Audio-GD R7 MKII, i finally made my seemingly right choice of the Holo Audio Spring 3. So far i trust this is my best decison made in investing in audio for the money. Before that I've also owned many Delta-Sigma DACs with highly appraised reviewes by both experts and consumers, like Gustard X26 Pro, SMSL VMV D1se and Cary Audio DMS-550 & DMS-700 (these are streaming DACs). I ened up selling them all to friends or in Canuck's Audio Mart. I like the Cary DMS-700 very much though, it has an on-board PCM & DSD Hardware Oversampling feature which is now only available in May DAC but missing from the Spring 3. Nevertheless, after now 130+ hours of burn-in on my Spring 3, the micro/macro details & dynamics in the music are unbelievable. Feel like the positive effects are increased further when more hours in. Never before listening to my favorable tracks are like digging into treasures.
> 
> I personally found that this particular forum is filled with gentlemen. I tried sharing my experiences and tips on DACs in two other forums, i received mostly abuses and attacks and turned into being lectured. I didn't have time for those headaches and shut myself up and quit. And most of them believing in "measurements", unfortunately i am only a music lover who without an engineering degree.
> 
> Thank you all here in this precious forum !


Larry Man hello,

How was your experience with the Musician Aquarius dac? How long did you keep and what were your impressions if you would not mind sharing your impressions, especially vs the Pegasus and to the Holo.   Thanks so much!


----------



## koso

Mkoll said:


> Thanks for sharing. I don't have a DC blocker in my chain, but like you none of my other components have ever had any transformer hum. It sounds like your new unit is free from hum?
> 
> I'm hoping Kitsune matches Magna's service.


New unit is OK now. It is not dead silence, but you have to be really very close to the unit (like few inches) to hear anything.


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 17, 2021)

KotBegemot said:


> Larry Man hello,
> 
> How was your experience with the Musician Aquarius dac? How long did you keep and what were your impressions if you would not mind sharing your impressions, especially vs the Pegasus and to the Holo.   Thanks so much!


Hello KotBegemot,

I am happy to share with you my recent experiences with the Musician Aquarius and Pegasus DACs vs Holo Spring 3. Please note that i personally don't have the same technical background like most Head-Fi forum members here to establish professional-like reviews on Hi-Fi equipment (for example like koso's reviews ), and my opinions on DACs are mainly based on my own setup and personal music listening preferences. I will try to sum up my impressions on the Musician and Holo DACs for you.

As i mentioned in my previous posts that i had my hands on quite a few highly-rated delta-sigma DACs until i entered the amazing world of R2R technologies. Many of those delta-sigma DACs sound pretty good and built with "all-inclusive" modern technologies but they sound too "digital" to me in most cases. They perform overall similarly or slightly better than my McIntosh C49 Preamp's integrated DAC (C49's DAC is a solid performer with full body sound and very well-implemented design, and it equips with ESS Sabre Chip but it's an older chipset model). If these delta-sigma DACs all sound alike, I might as well live with the DAC comes with my C49 Preamp or alternatively upgraded to McIntosh's swapable DAC module called DA2 like NAD's design (DA2 is a tad better perfomer but cost $1,000 USD though, also comes with a better ESS Sabre chipset but still not the top model by ESS Tech). So using an external DAC is a must for me to pursue the best possible sound from my PC-Audio setup. I personally like to have a Preamp with "Tone Control" or "DSP/Equalizer" in my setup, so i can always adjust the treble and bass of the music to add some flavor to my music. This also serves well as room sonic corrections. This explains why i did not choose the preamp option for my Holo Audio Spring 3 DACs. Long story short, R2R DACs sounds very natural and organic especially for human voices. And the soundstaging, instrument separation and backgound music detail retrieval are the strength.

Musician Pegasus & Aquarius vs Holo Audio Spring 3

- Pegasus was my 1st R2R DAC and it has solid sound built into a nice and compact package. Overall build quality is good too, the cabin size is a clear winner for most today's PC-Audio preferred modern space setup. I still think it is an excellent DAC for its price. I had used the Pegasus for about 3 weeks. The Aquarius i sold to my cousin after about 2 weeks owned and he likes it a lot still. My cousin also has a Holo Audio Spring 3 Level 2 for his living room setup (He mentioned that he likes Spring 3 more than Aquarius though). I had a Spring 3 Level 1 for about 2 weeks, later sold it and upgraded to Spring 3 KTE mainly in favor of the Titanis 2 USB Module. The Titanis 2 USB on the KTE model without doubts sounds better than the regular USB in Level 1 and Level 2, but the Holo's designed regular USB module still sound fantasic and better than most consumer DACs in the current market.

- Aquarius is basically a beef up version of Pegasus, Aquarius has easier navigation for Inputs on the front panel, and it has a better power supply than Pegasus. Most importanly it has Dual Crystal Oscillator Clocks built-in (Pegasus has no clocks). Pegasus uses 2 rails of R2R ladders while Aquarius uses 4 rails (double the decoding speed). Aquarius displays more firmer and more managed bass, the clarity in both highs and mids are noticeablely better as well. I personally felt that Aquarius displays about 20% better in overall performance compare to Pegasus, but Aquarius is priced a bit too high at $2,899 USD (by $1,800 more than Pegasus). I personally would buy the Spring 3 Level 2 instead of Musician Aquarius, both carry similar price tags.

- I only use balanced XLR connections from the DAC to my Preamp, i found both Pegasus and Aquarius have substantially lower in output sound volume than Holo Audio's Spring 3 during regular playback. I had to use "Input Gain" function to boost up the volume up at least 2 - 2.5 db to bring Pegasus/Aquarius properly to normal listening sound level, and to level up with my Preamp's interanl DAC when doing my own sound comparison. Spring 3 has no such issue as far as i can tell.

- I mainly use USB connection from my PC to the DAC. Both Pegasus and Aquarius show quiet black background with USB connections and matching the Spring 3's.

- I hate the unstable 3-leg design of Pegasus and Aquarius (and Denafrips's), most aftermarket Power cables always awkwardly tilt up the DAC from the back.

- For Pegasus and Aquarius you can toggle between NOS (Non-OverSampling) and OS (OverSampling) modes from the front panel, with Spring 3 only NOS is available. Spring 2 has OS function but it has been deleted on Spring 3 due to through-the-roof price of AKM chipset after the factory was burnt down last year). Depends on personal preferences and mood, type of music and source of music, OS is a bonus in most occasions and this reminds me my previous Cary Audio DMS-700 which has onboard OS by AKM chipset (same as in Holo Audio May DAC). Going back to the front panel display, Spring 3's display panel is lovely to watch and so easy to read the sampling rate and input used. The info on Musician's front panel is kind of busy with small dot lights and is harder to read especially from distance.

- I had sound distorion problem with my Pegasus since Day 1, whenever i changed the sampling rates from the Windows Sound Setting to higher than 96KHz/32-Bit, the sound intermittently became distorted (turned scary high-pitch sound for about 10 seconds and then resumed regular playing). I have actaully been experiencing same problem with my Holo Spring 3 KTE with newer firmware upgrade and paired with JCAT USB XE card (no issue with native USB ports with my PC. According to Jos@Magna Hi-Fi, Holo Audio has no solution for so far). I personally suspect that it could be the NOS mode in R2R ladders don't work with oversampling from Windows's sound sampling settings. I did not chase further for the solution to this problem and later returned it to the dealer. Yes i fully understand that the Oversampling can be done by software upsampling like HQ Player/JRiver, but i don't have much stored music to play. With my PC-Audio setup, I mainly stream music from Spotify and watch Youtube music shows/Videos/Movies. The sound oversampling rates in Windows Sound settings are particularly helpful for listening to streamed music from Spotify and watching music shows/movies from Youtube. Higher resolution can boost up some older recordings in Spotify and music contents in Youtube.

- Assuming all with proper burn-in time, I must say that Pegasus cannot compare to any level of Holo Spring 3, Pegasus has very similar design to Denafrips's Ares II and carries very similar sound signature (i heard once in my colleague's basement). In my opinion the Aquarius's overall performance is very close to Spring 3's Level 1 or 2, but it cannot surpass Spring 3's outstanding performance. Spring 3 KTE clearly wins in every aspects over the Aquarius. For buyers want to spend less, Pegasus is the best buy for around $1K USD. You will get up to 80% performance of its big brother Aquarius. For investing $1K more, Spring 3 Level 1 is the best choice in R2R design (still not cheap for a DAC though) ! Musician's DACs are very well designed but in terms of build quality, hardware capability and sonic performance, Spring 3 all Levels shine !

Hope these help


----------



## KotBegemot

Larry Man said:


> Hello KotBegemot,
> 
> I am happy to share with you my recent experiences with the Musician Aquarius and Pegasus DACs vs Holo Spring 3. Please note that i personally don't have the same technical background like most Head-Fi forum members here to establish professional-like reviews on Hi-Fi equipment (for example like koso's reviews ), and my opinions on DACs are mainly based on my own setup and personal music listening preferences. I will try to sum up my impressions on the Musician and Holo DACs for you.
> 
> ...


THANKS SO MUCH for your in-depth comparo. Do you remember your impressions on Aquarius vs the Pegasus? I ve tried the Pegasus and despite it not being a bad sounding unit, after a 21 days non stop break in I still preferred my Drlta Sigma unit. Now thinking about the Aquarius or the Holo, and since both of those are difficult to obtain and trial at the moment,  am looking for any insight I can get. Appreciate your impressions greatly.


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 17, 2021)

KotBegemot said:


> THANKS SO MUCH for your in-depth comparo. Do you remember your impressions on Aquarius vs the Pegasus? I ve tried the Pegasus and despite it not being a bad sounding unit, after a 21 days non stop break in I still preferred my Drlta Sigma unit. Now thinking about the Aquarius or the Holo, and since both of those are difficult to obtain and trial at the moment,  am looking for any insight I can get. Appreciate your impressions greatly.


After my first taste of R2R ladder DAC playing favorite music (my case was with Pegasus), i never looked back to delta-sigma design. The R2R Dacs sound so much more invloving and human like vocal. The only newer delta-sigma DAC i miss is the SMSL VMV D1se which has an unique feature called "Sound Color", it is basically a DSP with variable settings by utiliazing the built-in feature of ESS Sabre ES9038 Pro chipset. But i only like two settings out of the Sound Color feature called "Tube 2" and "Tube 3". SMSL/ESS Tech did a great job simulating the Tube sound and the sound feels very liquid and smooth. The Audio-GD R8 MKII and R7 MKII have similar tube simulation feature implemented as well. Also, i believe the newest Matrix X-Sabre 3 DAC will be a top performer. But as i said i enjoy the R2R products very much, much more than delta-sigma's at the moment.

Pegasus is an excellent sounding DAC for the price ! Aquarius is for sure better than Pegasus but not by a big margin. You still prefer your delta-sigma DACs possibly because you have not yet tried other higher tier R2R products, or it could be the type of music you prefer. But if you would choose to upgrade between Aquarius and Spring 3, the Spring 3 (regardless of Levels) is definitely a better choice. I remembered that i had many WoWs the 1st week using Spring 3, but i had no surprises with Aquarius. The interanl parts used and design of the Holo Audio products are in higher level than Musician's. Like choosing a Car built by mass volume production or by handmade limited production. And i never regret about letting go my Aquarius and am enjoying daily my Spring 3.


----------



## KerrangZ

Larry Man said:


> After my first taste of R2R ladder DAC playing favorite music (my case was with Pegasus), i never looked back to delta-sigma design. The R2R Dacs sound so much more invloving and human like vocal. The only newer delta-sigma DAC i miss is the SMSL VMV D1se which has an unique feature called "Sound Color", it is basically a DSP with variable settings by utiliazing the built-in feature of ESS Sabre ES9038 Pro chipset. But i only like two settings out of the Sound Color feature called "Tube 2" and "Tube 3". SMSL/ESS Tech did a great job simulating the Tube sound and the sound feels very liquid and smooth. The Audio-GD R8 MKII and R7 MKII have similar tube simulation feature implemented as well. Also, i believe the newest Matrix X-Sabre 3 DAC will be a top performer. But as i said i enjoy the R2R products very much, much more than delta-sigma's at the moment.
> 
> Pegasus is an excellent sounding DAC for the price ! Aquarius is for sure better than Pegasus but not by a big margin. You still prefer your delta-sigma DACs possibly because you have not yet tried other higher tier R2R products, or it could be the type of music you prefer. But if you would choose to upgrade between Aquarius and Spring 3, the Spring 3 (regardless of Levels) is definitely a better choice. I remembered that i had many WoWs the 1st week using Spring 3, but i had no surprises with Aquarius. The interanl parts used and design of the Holo Audio products are in higher level than Musician's. Like choosing a Car built by mass volume production or by handmade limited production. And i never regret about letting go my Aquarius and am enjoying daily my Spring 3.


What are your thoughts comparing the R7 MKII and the Spring 3, especially for energetic genres like electronic, rock and EDM?


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 17, 2021)

KerrangZ said:


> What are your thoughts comparing the R7 MKII and the Spring 3, especially for energetic genres like electronic, rock and EDM?


Sorry KerrangZ, I have never tried Audio-GD DACs. I was contemplating to take the R7 MK2 or R8 MK2, then Jos@Magna Hi-Fi successfully convinced me on the Holo Spring 3


----------



## KotBegemot (Oct 17, 2021)

Larry Man said:


> After my first taste of R2R ladder DAC playing favorite music (my case was with Pegasus), i never looked back to delta-sigma design. The R2R Dacs sound so much more invloving and human like vocal. The only newer delta-sigma DAC i miss is the SMSL VMV D1se which has an unique feature called "Sound Color", it is basically a DSP with variable settings by utiliazing the built-in feature of ESS Sabre ES9038 Pro chipset. But i only like two settings out of the Sound Color feature called "Tube 2" and "Tube 3". SMSL/ESS Tech did a great job simulating the Tube sound and the sound feels very liquid and smooth. The Audio-GD R8 MKII and R7 MKII have similar tube simulation feature implemented as well. Also, i believe the newest Matrix X-Sabre 3 DAC will be a top performer. But as i said i enjoy the R2R products very much, much more than delta-sigma's at the moment.
> 
> Pegasus is an excellent sounding DAC for the price ! Aquarius is for sure better than Pegasus but not by a big margin. You still prefer your delta-sigma DACs possibly because you have not yet tried other higher tier R2R products, or it could be the type of music you prefer. But if you would choose to upgrade between Aquarius and Spring 3, the Spring 3 (regardless of Levels) is definitely a better choice. I remembered that i had many WoWs the 1st week using Spring 3, but i had no surprises with Aquarius. The interanl parts used and design of the Holo Audio products are in higher level than Musician's. Like choosing a Car built by mass volume production or by handmade limited production. And i never regret about letting go my Aquarius and am enjoying daily my Spring 3.


Thanks again for your in-depth review. Its especially more valuable since I know your amp& loudspeaker's sonic signature  very well, unlike most headphones'  experiences. The built quality  does not always corresponds to the quality of the sound especially as it comes to dacs in my extensive experience. I use $500 delta sigma dac which so far in mine 3 separate high end systems bettered many dacs 10 times its price,  and is somewhat of a rarity, for my musical tastes of course...


----------



## ShangriLa

Mkoll said:


> Sadly, my new Spring 3 KTE has developed what sounds like transformer hum while it's on whereas it was completely quiet before. I sit pretty close to my audio equipment in a quiet room so the hum is loud and disturbing; even wearing the closed-back Stellia I can hear it. I tried different power cables and outlets/electrical circuits with no luck. I've contacted Kitsune about it and hopefully they get back to me soon.
> 
> Has anyone else run into this problem?





koso said:


> I had exactly the same problem with my Spring 3 KTE, right from the beginning.
> From very first time I have powered unit ON, there was very audible transformer hum. Initially Magna HiFi (distributor) suggested that it was DC offset problem. After I explained, that I already have decent DC blocker in the power chain (Isotek Syncro uni) and no other transformer has hum issue, Magna HiFi managed to replace my unit for the new one. Very quick swap. Kudos to Magna HiFi.
> But anyway it is quite disturbing to hear that this problem affected more units. Hope your unit (or transformer in it) will be repleced ASAP, because this type of issue in this price and quality range is not acceptable at all.



So does the hum issue only happen when you purchase EU model from Magnahifi and use in the US? Or Kitusni units have had this issue as well? When that happens, did Magnahifi send replacement unit to the US and who paid for shipping?

I'm thinking about buying from Magnahifi and I'm in the US because of Kitsuni's wait time. But if Kitusni units are less likely to have the hum issue and when that happens Kitusni will have a smoother replacement experience, I'd wait and just buy from Kitusni.


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 17, 2021)

ShangriLa said:


> So does the hum issue only happen when you purchase EU model from Magnahifi and use in the US? Or Kitusni units have had this issue as well? When that happens, did Magnahifi send replacement unit to the US and who paid for shipping?
> 
> I'm thinking about buying from Magnahifi and I'm in the US because of Kitsuni's wait time. But if Kitusni units are less likely to have the hum issue and when that happens Kitusni will have a smoother replacement experience, I'd wait and just buy from Kitusni.


My Spring 3 Level 1 and KTE are EU Spec'd and were both from Magna Hi-Fi. I have no humming issue with them in Canada. And i believe that the only difference between the EU Spec and US Spec is the amprege rating of fuse Holo Audio used respectively. The AC voltage can be easily switched for intended region using the toggling switches besides the power supplies inside the unit


----------



## Mkoll

ShangriLa said:


> So does the hum issue only happen when you purchase EU model from Magnahifi and use in the US? Or Kitusni units have had this issue as well? When that happens, did Magnahifi send replacement unit to the US and who paid for shipping?
> 
> I'm thinking about buying from Magnahifi and I'm in the US because of Kitsuni's wait time. But if Kitusni units are less likely to have the hum issue and when that happens Kitusni will have a smoother replacement experience, I'd wait and just buy from Kitusni.


Well my Kitsune Spring 3 KTE has the hum. Wait time was about 5 weeks. Will be seeing soon how Kitsune's customer service is and will keep this thread updated.


----------



## ShangriLa

Larry Man said:


> My Spring 3 Level 1 and KTE are EU Spec'd and were both from Magna Hi-Fi. I have no humming issue with them in Canada. And i believe that the only difference between the EU Spec and US Spec is the amprege rating of fuse Holo Audio used respectively. The AC voltage can be easily switched for intended region using the toggling switches besides the power supplies inside the unit





Mkoll said:


> Well my Kitsune Spring 3 KTE has the hum. Wait time was about 5 weeks. Will be seeing soon how Kitsune's customer service is and will keep this thread updated.



Thanks guys. So it seems the likelihood of humming happening doesn't have to do with where the device is purchased then? The main thing is when that happens, how the retailer will handle it. Hope things work out well for you @Mkoll.


----------



## KotBegemot

Larry Man said:


> My Spring 3 Level 1 and KTE are EU Spec'd and were both from Magna Hi-Fi. I have no humming issue with them in Canada. And i believe that the only difference between the EU Spec and US Spec is the amprege rating of fuse Holo Audio used respectively. The AC voltage can be easily switched for intended region using the toggling switches besides the power supplies inside the unit


Larry Man Hello,

With your Holo Spring 3 KTE have you had instances of screeching digital noise that some dacs produce and that has been reported in case with Holo Spring or May models as well?  I have had such  cases happened with my Macbook- sourced set up and few dacs. Thanks!


----------



## koso

KotBegemot said:


> Larry Man Hello,
> 
> With your Holo Spring 3 KTE have you had instances of screeching digital noise that some dacs produce and that has been reported in case with Holo Spring or May models as well?  I have had such  cases happened with my Macbook- sourced set up and few dacs. Thanks!


In what scenario this noise occurred? In certain frequencies, or only on specific input?


----------



## KotBegemot

koso said:


> In what scenario this noise occurred? In certain frequencies, or only on specific input?


When I put upsampling in  my Macbook Pro audio settings to 32 - 768 some dacs produced horrible screeching noise.... The remedy has been to lower the upsampling to 32-352. The only dac that played 32-768 perfectly  was Aune S8 , I guess their software code is very well written and stable .


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 18, 2021)

KotBegemot said:


> Larry Man Hello,
> 
> With your Holo Spring 3 KTE have you had instances of screeching digital noise that some dacs produce and that has been reported in case with Holo Spring or May models as well?  I have had such  cases happened with my Macbook- sourced set up and few dacs. Thanks!


HI KotBegemot,

Yes, Jos@Magna Hi-Fi has reported my sound issue to Holo Audio team when i pair Spring KTE with JCAT USB XE card when oversampling. And initially Holo Audio developed quickly V31.30 firmware to hopefully adress my sound issue but it was better and innocently i thought that has solved the problem. Because after V31.30 firmware was used, it took more than 5 straight hours to replicate the nasty sound. So Jos patiently replied to me and he continued his communications with Holo Team on my issue.

I believe that the screeching digital noise you are talking about is the same kind of noise i had with Spring 3 KTE & Musician Pegasus (but only when connecting with JCAT USB XE and when the Sampling rate is set to higher than 32 Bit/96kHz in Windows 10 Sound Settings though ... No such issue when Spring 3 KTE connecting with my PC's own USB ports with any sampling rates. And i had no such issue as well with the USB module of my Level 1 Spring 3 before). When playing/streaming music intermittenly the music turned into very high pitch static sound for 10 to 15 seconds and then back to normal. It could happen more than dozen times per day. I have also consulted Marcin@JCAT and see if any Spring 3 KTE+JCAT USB XE users reported to him the same issues and Marcin said no. Jos@ Magna Hi-Fi has been relentlessly following up with Holo Audio tech on the sound issue i am having and he managed to get me another new firmware Version V31.32 this morning to try. I am not sure if this firmware will be applicable to KotBegemot's case, I will try this new firmware today on my set and update if it solves mine.

@ShangriLa, when talking about pre & after-sale customer services, Jos and his Magna Hi-Fi Team deserve all credits ! I will not be hesitate buying from Magna Hi-Fi !


----------



## ShangriLa

Larry Man said:


> @ShangriLa, when talking about pre & after-sale customer services, Jos and his Magna Hi-Fi Team deserve all credits ! I will not be hesitate buying from Magna Hi-Fi !


Thanks, that's good to know. The only concern is should I run into issues that is hardware related and cannot be fixed by a firmware update (like the humming issue?) how would the replacement and shipping cost be handled? Perhaps I can reach out to them and ask.


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 19, 2021)

Hi All,

I have been enjoying my causal testings on these two system tweaks with my lovely Spring 3 KTE since last weekend and i'd like to share my impressions with you. These could be of your interests and hope you find them useful as future upgrades !

Again these are subjectively based on my own listening preferences and my own PC-Audio sound system, and they are just very brief feedbacks about these products. By the way I was still using the firmware version V31.26 at the time of testing, to ensure my Spring 3 KTE works properly with JCAT USB XE PCI Express card.

There we go ...

*Furutech NCF Clear Line AC Optimizer*

Wow ... i must say that i was so impressed by it and i think every system of music lovers deserve this little tweak ! The level of improvement in details and focus were perceived by myself only once from before. That was the time when i upgraded my speaker cables from Audioquest (AQ) Rocket 88 to current AQ Robin Hood Bi-Wire Combo (Zero+Bass). The feel of sound improvement was also like upgrading from an OEM suspensions of your car to a highly sports-tuned setup and the hanlding of music flow feels so smooth and clear cut. The overall sound of my system now feels cleaner and i can hear more sound effects. The damping coils built in this cylinder shaped device contribute to the resonance absorbing effcts very well.  Simply plugged it in to the available AC outlets of my AQ Niagara 1200 and the magic goes on. When i tried unplugging it from my AQ N1200, I could very much convinced myself to better leave it plugged in and never touch it   

I was so doubtful about how this little plug could improve the sound quality of my above average AC power setups (I use mainly Audioquest Tornado HC & Source + Synergistic Research Foundation power cords). The results i obtained from this little magical tweak is totally worth it (Retail $250 USD) and the price is only at a small fraction of the cost of upgrading power/speaker cables. I have tried to plug it in to the vaccant outlet of the same wall outlets of my AQ Niagara 1200, but i found the result was much more obvious when it was plugged in directly to the AQ Niagara 1200. Most professinal reviewers mentioned that more of these plugs can be added to your AC chains and received incremental improvements. I am very satisfied with the improvements from this little plug. To me, this is not at all snake oil and it is a great investment 


*Synergistic Research Purple Quatum Fuse*

Many of us are very familiar with the outstanding performance of SR Orange fuses, i went with an extra step ahead and upgraded to the newest and best SR Purple fuses ! You have to be a believer of Audiophile fuses to continue reading ... just kidding     I just received them today so proper run-in is required to explore the most out of this tweak. There were some visible signs of the Graphene treatment on the surface of the Purple fuses, some graphene residules from treatment processes can still be seen. I installed Purple fuses on my Spring 3 KTE, McIntosh C49 Preamp and McIntosh MC312 Power Amplifier, i left the linear power supply alone this time it has Orange fuse in it still.

With exact same setups, the modest improvements from Purple fuse over Orange fuse can be heard right away. I felt that a little more sound staging developed further and deeper from my usual sweet listening spot (this may not be a good thing in some cases though, depends on your own setup, i had to reposition my speakers and seat a little to accomodate the larger sound field but overall it's fun doing so).  The effect was felt like i was re-arranged to a pricier seating in a concert hall which is more closer to the stage and the performer. Also, the low end details could be heard even better in lower sound volume. And the bass notes are very well managed as well. Overall result is positive with only 1 hour of listening into it. After proper run-in the sound field should be opened up even more (This is where the Orange fuse perform the best ! )  In my opinion investing the extra $40 in retail price over the Orange is fully worth it. 

Both of these little products are keeper for me 

Happy Music Listening Everyone


----------



## Larry Man

ShangriLa said:


> Thanks, that's good to know. The only concern is should I run into issues that is hardware related and cannot be fixed by a firmware update (like the humming issue?) how would the replacement and shipping cost be handled? Perhaps I can reach out to them and ask.


Better ask Jos for those warranty related inquiries. He responds to emails actively.

Cheers


----------



## barbz127

Larry Man said:


> I had a Spring 3 Level 1 for about 2 weeks, later sold it and upgraded to Spring 3 KTE mainly in favor of the Titanis 2 USB Module. The Titanis 2 USB on the KTE model without doubts sounds better than the regular USB in Level 1 and Level 2, but the Holo's designed regular USB module still sound fantasic and better than most consumer DACs in the current market


Hi Lary Man
Any chance you could share any other comments on how the l1 and kte compared?

Thankyou


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## Larry Man (Oct 19, 2021)

barbz127 said:


> Hi Lary Man
> Any chance you could share any other comments on how the l1 and kte compared?
> 
> Thankyou


Hi barbz127,

Spring 3 Level 1 is a solid performer and it's a great buy for its price (If you don't need a remote control). Despite it does not spec'd with HoloAudio selected capacitors, the level 1 sounds excellent and even better compare to current lower priced R2R DACs and main stream delta-sigma DACs with ESS Sabre ES9038 Pro or AKM4499 Chips in the market. It is very stable and noise free playing music with the regular Holo Audio USB module. I have tried Level 1 and level 2 side-by-side with exact same setups, i honestly couldn't tell any difference in sound between the two. Level 1 is built with exactly the same cabin as other variants and majority of parts are shared with the KTE model. Those are all quality parts implemented. And the fuse can later be upgraded without efforts to your choice (i strongly recommend Synergistic Research Orange) to obtain more "opened" sound field. For those who doesn't feel like spending too much money, Level 1 is the best choice. In Asia the level 1 has the highest number of inquiries for your info.

The KTE is a different animal, it bites much harder than Level 1 & Level 2 indeed. When playing louder or more bass-intensive music you can tell instantly from the slamming effects ! You pay for higher price tag of KTE for a higher grade power transformer with Silver connecting wires and better performing DAC modules. These upgrade parts are keys to even higher tier sound quality. The Holo Red Nano fuse is not that great compare to Synergistic Research fuses based on my own experience so you can replace them later to audiophile fuse to get more "opened" sound. In my opinion the overall performance of KTE is roughly 30-35% better than Level 1 and level 2 thanks to the valuable Titanis 2 USB module, its performance is fantastic and somehow even better than connecting via I2S (Spring 2 does not have option of this great USB module so I2S does a better job for best sounding). So select Spring 3 KTE you can save at least $500 from your pocket on adding a "Digital Interface" and a Nice "HDMI" cable. I like my Spring 3 KTE very well, except it does not have the onboard Oversampling feature like on May Dac or Spring 2. For KTE you pay for what you get and it's worthy investment.

Hope these help !


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## koso (Oct 19, 2021)

ShangriLa said:


> Thanks, that's good to know. The only concern is should I run into issues that is hardware related and cannot be fixed by a firmware update (like the humming issue?) how would the replacement and shipping cost be handled? Perhaps I can reach out to them and ask.


Just for your info. Replacement and shipping cost for my Spring 3 KTE unit was competely free for me, all managed by Magna Hi-Fi. They send me return label (for DPD parcel service), so all I had to do was to take package to the nearest DPD pick up center. In 10 days the new unit was delivered (also for free).


----------



## Mkoll

Larry Man said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have been enjoying my causal testings on these two system tweaks with my lovely Spring 3 KTE since last weekend and i'd like to share my impressions with you. These could be of your interests and hope you find them useful as future upgrades !
> 
> ...


On the Spring 3, did you only replace the one fuse on the back near the power cord input? Or did you replace others as well?


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 20, 2021)

Mkoll said:


> On the Spring 3, did you only replace the one fuse on the back near the power cord input? Or did you replace others as well?


I only replaced the one on the back of IEC Inlet near the power cord. I am not aware of other fuses inside of the Spring 3  

Are there indeed more than one fuse in Spring 3 ? Please advise me Thanks


----------



## Mkoll

Larry Man said:


> I only replaced the one on the back near the power cord. I am not aware of other fuses inside of the Spring 3
> 
> Are there indeed more than one fuse for Spring 3 ?


Thanks.

I'm not sure if there are others. I thought you might know


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 20, 2021)

Mkoll said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm not sure if there are others. I thought you might know


To the best of my knowledge, each Spring 3 only equips with one fuse which is the one i replaced from inside of the fuse holder by the power cord inlet. If i am mistaken whoever knows the answer please kindly educate me.  Hope there is truly only one fuse is needed otherwise my wallet will get a bit thinner 

I remembered when the time i had my Spring 3 Level 1, i once emailed Kitsune inquiring about the availbility of Holo Red Nano fuse for purchase (because Magna Hi-Fi doesn't sell fuses). Kitsune replied and asked me for proof of ownership of KTE model, and they assumed i only need one fuse and quoted price for one. So could this explained that we only to replace one fuse per unit ? I think so ...  

The Musician Pegasus and Aquarius i used before require two Audiophile fuse replacement per unit for AC 110-115V users though ... but interestingly for AC 220-230V region users if they would like to upgrade fuses they only need to replace one of the two fuses onboard (see attached picture).

Cheers !


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## LarsNL (Oct 19, 2021)

Larry Man said:


> I only replaced the one on the back near the power cord. I am not aware of other fuses inside of the Spring 3
> 
> Are there indeed more than one fuse in Spring 3 ? Please advise me Thanks


I recently replaced the Holo Red fuse with a SR Orange, after talking to Magna Hifi. They advised to take a slightly higher amperage fuse and didn’t mention any other fuses. If you look at photos of the inside, you don’t see other fuses either.
R direction UP and S direction DOWN (see S and R letters on the SR Orange fuse if you chose that brand). Up to 4A amperage is no problem (in Europe).


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 20, 2021)

LarsNL said:


> I recently replaced the Holo Red fuse with a SR Orange, after talking to Magna Hifi. They advised to take a slightly higher amperage fuse and didn’t mention any other fuses. If you look at photos of the inside, you don’t see other fuses either.
> S direction UP and R direction DOWN (see S and R letters on the SR Orange fuse if you chose that brand). Up to 4A amperage is no problem (in Europe).


Hi LarsNL,

If you like to replace the factory fuse with a SR fuse, for AC 220-230V Region -> use Slow-Blow 2A or 2.5A. For AC 110-115V Region use Slow-Blow 4A.

When installing the SR fuse to Spring 3, the direction of the fuse should be "S" on the bottom & "R" on the top ("S" on the "Live" end & "R" on the "Neutral" end).  Please see my attached picture as reference. You will risk losing details in Music if you install it upside down.


----------



## LarsNL (Oct 19, 2021)

Larry Man said:


> Hi LarsNL,
> 
> If you like to replace the factory fuse with SR Orange fuse, for AC 240V Region -> use Slow-Blow 2A or 2.5A. For AC 110V Region use Slow-Blow 4A.
> 
> When installing the SR fuse to Spring 3, the direction of the fuse should be "S" on the bottom & "R" on the top ("S" on the "Live" end & "R" on the "Neutral" end).  Please see my attached picture as reference. You will be losing details in Music if you install it upside down.


Hi Larry Man,
Magna Hifi confirmed that S is the “hot/live” end. However they say that the  S should go on the bottom of the Spring 3 KTE.
I can always change the direction and listen, as I could clearly hear which way to place it in my second system Cayin CS-55a tube amp. But like I said, Magna Hifi has confirmed this direction to me twice.


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 19, 2021)

LarsNL said:


> Hi Larry Man,
> Magna Hifi confirmed that S is the “hot/live” end. However they say that the  S should go on the bottom of the Spring 3 KTE.
> I can always change the direction and listen, as I could clearly hear which way to place it in my second system Cayin CS-55a tube amp. But like I said, Magna Hifi has confirmed this direction to me twice.


Hi LarsNL,

The Hot/Live end for Spring 3's fuse holder is for sure on the bottom when we stare at the rear of Spring 3. My authorized Synergistic Research fuse dealer confirmed that as well. So "S" should be on the bottom to match hot/live end. I have tried flipping the SR Orange fuse of my unit before and the overall sound feels weird so i flipped it back and regained the music details.

Oh by the way for your info, during the 1st time i removed the Holo Audio Red Nano fuse from my KTE to replacee with SR Orange, the direction arrow printed on the Holo Audio Nano fuse was facing up. So i am sure the way i installed the SR Orange is correct.


----------



## LarsNL

Larry Man said:


> Hi LarsNL,
> 
> The Hot/Live end for Spring 3's fuse holder is for sure on the bottom when we stare at the rear of Spring 3. My authorized Synergistic Research fuse dealer confirmed that as well. So "S" should be on the bottom to match hot/live end. I have tried flipping the SR Orange fuse of my unit before and the overall sound feels weird so i flipped it back and regained the music details.
> 
> Oh by the way for your info, during the 1st time i removed the Holo Audio Red Nano fuse from my KTE to replacee with SR Orange, the direction arrow printed on the Holo Audio Nano fuse was facing up. So i am sure the way i installed the SR Orange is correct.


Hi Larry, I saw that I miss typed in the first post, which you correctly replied to. I corrected the post. Thanks


----------



## Larry Man

LarsNL said:


> Hi Larry, I saw that I miss typed in the first post, which you correctly replied to. I corrected the post. Thanks


Hi LarsNL, 

Thanks


----------



## ShangriLa

koso said:


> Just for your info. Replacement and shipping cost for my Spring 3 KTE unit was competely free for me, all managed by Magna Hi-Fi. They send me return label (for DPD parcel service), so all I had to do was to take package to the nearest DPD pick up center. In 10 days the new unit was delivered (also for free).



Thanks. I emailed Magna Hi-Fi and Jos replied that they are not shipping to US/Canada (anymore). I will have to go through Kitsuni's long line of waiting and rely on their customer service now -__-


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 20, 2021)

ShangriLa said:


> Thanks. I emailed Magna Hi-Fi and Jos replied that they are not shipping to US/Canada (anymore). I will have to go through Kitsuni's long line of waiting and rely on their customer service now -__-


 Bummer ... stupid market protection rule kicks in. We consumers pay for exceptional customer services and the consumer right entitled us to choose who we want to buy from !


----------



## Larry Man

KotBegemot said:


> Larry Man Hello,
> 
> With your Holo Spring 3 KTE have you had instances of screeching digital noise that some dacs produce and that has been reported in case with Holo Spring or May models as well?  I have had such  cases happened with my Macbook- sourced set up and few dacs. Thanks!


Hi KotBegemot,

Just to let you know that the "screeching digital noise" i had with Spring 3 KTE with JCAT USB XE in higher sampling rates has been completely solved by firmware V31.32. I ran my Spring 3 with this new firmware for 15 hours and the nasty noise never came back. There are no update notes about the new firmware so i have no clue what tweaks Holo Team has done to it.


----------



## koso

Larry Man said:


> Hi KotBegemot,
> 
> Just to let you know that the "screeching digital noise" i had with Spring 3 KTE with JCAT USB XE in higher sampling rates has been completely solved by firmware V31.32. I ran my Spring 3 with this new firmware for 15 hours and the nasty noise never came back. There are no update notes about the new firmware so i have no clue what tweaks Holo Team has done to it.


Good to hear that. Is this firmware available for all users? And another question, is there new USB module in your Spring 3?


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 20, 2021)

koso said:


> Good to hear that. Is this firmware available for all users? And another question, is there new USB module in your Spring 3?


Hi koso,

Jos@Magna Hi-Fi said that he will ask Holo Audio for us if V31.32 will be a formal release or not and try to get the change note. When i see his reply i will update. I think this firmware is only to solve the JCAT USB card conflicts but let see.

My USB Module shows as "Gen2.1 Enhanced" in Holo Audio Control Panel (screenshot attached). I think this is a newer version.


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 20, 2021)

koso said:


> Good to hear that. Is this firmware available for all users? And another question, is there new USB module in your Spring 3?


Hi koso and Everyone,

Good News ! i just saw the V31.32 firmware for Spring 3 and May DAC with USB Gen2.1 been posted on Magna Hi-Fi's download site for users: https://magnahifi.com/holo-audio-product-downloads/
Kudos to Jos's team for such efficiency  ! This firmware feels like a great build, to me it is as smooth or better than V31.26. Try it out yourself !  Cheers !  


** Update** - V31.32 firmware specifically fixes this problem with JCAT USB XE Card using asmedia controller ->   "The asmedia chip will have different USB frame id during the transaction."


----------



## koso

Larry Man said:


> Hi koso and Everyone,
> 
> Good News ! i just saw the V31.32 firmware for Spring 3 and May DAC with USB Gen2.1 been posted on Magna Hi-Fi's download site for users: https://magnahifi.com/holo-audio-product-downloads/
> Kudos to Jos's team for such efficiency  ! This firmware feels like a great build, to me it is as smooth or better than V31.26. Try it out yourself !  Cheers !
> ...


Thanks for info.
There is Gen 2.0 USB module in my Spring 3 KTE unit, so I have to wait for new module to be able to update to this firmware (Jos from Magna promised to send me new module after they will be available).


----------



## Larry Man

koso said:


> Thanks for info.
> There is Gen 2.0 USB module in my Spring 3 KTE unit, so I have to wait for new module to be able to update to this firmware (Jos from Magna promised to send me new module after they will be available).


Is it a no charge upgrade ? or how much cost you for the upgrade ?


----------



## koso

Larry Man said:


> Is it a no charge upgrade ? or how much cost you for the upgrade ?


Have no idea. But even if not free, I suppose it will be symbolic price for first batch units owners.


----------



## Delta9K

Larry Man said:


> Is it a no charge upgrade ? or how much cost you for the upgrade ?


This is the information I got from Tim @ Kitunse - This may not still be the case but was when I talked to him last. I have yet to ask for a replacement because I don't really do up sampling or DSD. I'm old school FLAC and the DAC sounds incredible with the 2.0 module as is. If I decide I want to venture into DSD or upsampling I will just purchase an upgrade. I see no reason to get a new module just to say I have a new module...

Here's what Tim told me:
KitsuneHiFi and HoloAudioUSA upgrade plan for the enhanced usb module users (original usb module in KTE Spring3, KTE May and May L2)

1.     For users whom had purchased our May L2 and KTE or Spring3 KTE within the recent 3 months (05/1/2021 through 7/31/2021). We will offer our customers the update for free. But users need to pay the shipping cost and also ship the original module back to KitsuneHiFi.
2.     For users who purchases our May L2 and KTE or Spring3 KTE before the recent 3 months mentioned above. We can provide this module at 100USD. Also they need to pay the shipping cost and also ship back the original module to KitsuneHiFi.

Note: this usb module doesn't have sound quality improvements except the ability to do dsd1024 and pcm1.536Mhz. Which is an improvement to some who use these high resolution sample rates. However this a small percentage of users. If you are not going to use DSD1024 and PCM1536K on AMD chipset then no need to update. This is a module that can be installed yourself at home with two Allen wrench sizes and about 10-15min.


----------



## Mkoll

Mkoll said:


> Sadly, my new Spring 3 KTE has developed what sounds like transformer hum while it's on whereas it was completely quiet before. I sit pretty close to my audio equipment in a quiet room so the hum is loud and disturbing; even wearing the closed-back Stellia I can hear it. I tried different power cables and outlets/electrical circuits with no luck. I've contacted Kitsune about it and hopefully they get back to me soon.
> 
> Has anyone else run into this problem?


So my problem has been fixed. Turns out it was a DC offset issue, as mentioned by koso in post #2718. Tim from Kitsune Hifi emailed me back and suggested this may be the problem and directed me to an article about it and a review of one of the few products that fixes it: Emotiva CMX-2. He explained that the large transformer in the Spring 3 makes it more vulnerable to DC offset problems. The source of the DC offset is probably somewhere in the wiring of the old apartment I live in. So I bought the CMX-2, plugged the Spring 3 into it, and boom! Problem fixed.


----------



## thecrow

Mkoll said:


> So my problem has been fixed. Turns out it was a DC offset issue, as mentioned by koso in post #2718. Tim from Kitsune Hifi emailed me back and suggested this may be the problem and directed me to an article about it and a review of one of the few products that fixes it: Emotiva CMX-2. He explained that the large transformer in the Spring 3 makes it more vulnerable to DC offset problems. The source of the DC offset is probably somewhere in the wiring of the old apartment I live in. So I bought the CMX-2, plugged the Spring 3 into it, and boom! Problem fixed.


Out of curiousity did you try using the dac in a friend‘s house?


----------



## Mkoll

thecrow said:


> Out of curiousity did you try using the dac in a friend‘s house?


I did not.


----------



## thecrow

Mkoll said:


> I did not.


And it developed the hum without you having moved in the interim?

i’m definitely not an expert in electrical devices but i’m wondering if that’s a bit strange

i once had an audio device (dac/amp) (another manufacturer) that was sold to me by them at a good price as a demo model and had a noise coming through the headphones feom the get go.
After i tried a few things, including having to send the dac board to them for a new one, with me paying postage, i was told there was issues with my cables (including my stock hd800 and lcd2 cables amd some norne cables) that made my setup susceptible to these (rf?) noises and i should buy better protected cables or some device (from memory) to attach between my headphone cables and device. I sent it back and have never dealt with that audio company ever again no matter how many devices they release.

i had previously owned an amp from them before and was very happy but no more after that second experience

ymmv, that was my experience and i am wary of these issues

ps i am glad you are enjoying your dac now


----------



## Mkoll

thecrow said:


> And it developed the hum without you having moved in the interim?
> 
> i’m definitely not an expert in electrical devices but i’m wondering if that’s a bit strange
> 
> ...


Thanks. It is possible that I didn't notice it before and it was always present. It's one of those things where once you first notice it, you can't help but hear it when it's there.


----------



## KojiCO

Mkoll said:


> Thanks. It is possible that I didn't notice it before and it was always present. It's one of those things where once you first notice it, you can't help but hear it when it's there.


----------



## KojiCO

*I have spent the last two weeks with a spring three kte  also having the spring to  extreme addition at the desk at the same time
using Diana V2  end susvara
are you where are the upgrade but only if you jump from the Diana to the SUS, here is the review
 *


----------



## KotBegemot

KojiCO said:


> *I have spent the last two weeks with a spring three kte  also having the spring to  extreme addition at the desk at the same time
> using Diana V2  end susvara
> are you where are the upgrade but only if you jump from the Diana to the SUS, here is the review
> *



I could not  bear to watch this "review" thru the end, so could some please illuminate me if the guy climaxes at the end ?!


----------



## stuck limo

I recently got on loan a Spring 1 Level 1 DAC and have been running it from PC > iGalvanic > iMicro > Holo > Phonitor XE > LCD 2.2 pre-fazor. My impression to my audio group were as follows (see attachments).


----------



## stuck limo (Oct 23, 2021)

I also added a Singxer SU-1 so PC > Singxer SU-1 > Holo. Impressions below. I believe the cable is a Monoprice but I am NOT impressed so far with what I'm hearing. I would definitely try a new cable instead of the generic one included.


----------



## thecrow (Oct 23, 2021)

error post


----------



## Larry Man (Oct 24, 2021)

Not sure if you guys are aware of an updated version of USB driver V5.27 for Spring 3 & May DAC. The driver works for both USB Gen2.0 & 2.1 modules.

It has improvements in regards to the latest firmware version V31.32 (It works with earlier versions of firmware as well). I have attached the file here if you'd like to use it. It's not yet posted in Kitsune's site.


----------



## eee1111 (Oct 25, 2021)

I have usb2.0 on May kte

Currently using hqplayer on roon and it looks like pcm1.536Mhz isn’t an option I’m only half that number.

I thought it would be an option as long as I don’t use an AMD in my hardware

I really really don’t feel like spending 400 dollars to ship it. But I definitely want to have the ability to pcm 1.5mhz


----------



## GoldenOne

eee1111 said:


> I have usb2.0 on May kte
> 
> Currently using hqplayer on roon and it looks like pcm1.536Mhz isn’t an option I’m only half that number.
> 
> ...


You just need to flash the 30.12 firmware available on the kitsune product page for the may.

It ships with 30.14 by default to make sure the dac is plug and play for all users but can't do 1.536mhz.

(you can swap back and forth between the two firmwares as desired/needed)


----------



## eee1111

GoldenOne said:


> You just need to flash the 30.12 firmware available on the kitsune product page for the may.
> 
> It ships with 30.14 by default to make sure the dac is plug and play for all users but can't do 1.536mhz.
> 
> (you can swap back and forth between the two firmwares as desired/needed)


Oh ok. Thanks.

Also I gotta say. Hqplayer is amazing even at 750kb/s sampling


----------



## misternoe

I'm on the fence between the Spring 3 KTE w/pre-amp OR Holo May L2. I'll be using the dac with for both headphones and a 2-channel speaker setup. What are some things I should keep in mind that could steer me towards one or the other?


----------



## XVampireX

misternoe said:


> I'm on the fence between the Spring 3 KTE w/pre-amp OR Holo May L2. I'll be using the dac with for both headphones and a 2-channel speaker setup. What are some things I should keep in mind that could steer me towards one or the other?



For 2-channel speaker, if you don't already have a good preamp, maybe worth going for the Spring 3 KTE, it's supposed to be similar if not identical to the Holo Audio Serene.


----------



## hifixman

hikaru12 said:


> No issues there then just curious if it’s a bad pairing with headphones that are already warm like ZMF cans (I have the Eikons, for example). I do notice the roll off with NOS but it’s not bad persay, you lose out on some air and treble sharpness but you get all day listening pleasure.
> 
> Can you elaborate on what you mean by sweet? Does the midrange sound sweet or is it the treble that sparkles and sound inoffensive? I have a hard time understanding what people mean by that when they describe this DAC.


Yes May doesnt sound well with warm headphone setup though it works well with speaker system


----------



## sukany

I am considering a Holo Spring L1 + Singxer SU6 combination which I am getting a good deal for , previously owned an Ares II and am looking for an upgrade.  How do these compare to Metrum Onyx/Pontus II offerings ?


----------



## NoTimeFor

For the spring 3 unit that has preamp module built in, if the unit is connected to an external preamp, is there a way to bypass the volume control in Spring 3 DAC?

Thanks.


----------



## BoogieWoogie

NoTimeFor said:


> For the spring 3 unit that has preamp module built in, if the unit is connected to an external preamp, is there a way to bypass the volume control in Spring 3 DAC?
> 
> Thanks.


There is no bypass.


----------



## zorilon (Nov 12, 2021)

Mkoll said:


> Sadly, my new Spring 3 KTE has developed what sounds like transformer hum while it's on whereas it was completely quiet before. I sit pretty close to my audio equipment in a quiet room so the hum is loud and disturbing; even wearing the closed-back Stellia I can hear it. I tried different power cables and outlets/electrical circuits with no luck. I've contacted Kitsune about it and hopefully they get back to me soon.
> 
> Has anyone else run into this problem?


Yes, I had these problem with my old Spring 2 KTE and also with my new Holo May KTE. I tried different DC blocker as MagnaHifi (authorize dealer) told me with no success. Then I saw that on my power network the electrical power is around 240V instead of 220-230V as recommended. I took the unit at a friend in a different part of the city and it doesn’t have the hum anymore. So I think that Holo Audio special toroidal are a little sensitive about the main power. I have a lot of other gear but doesn’t have this behavior.


----------



## eee1111

zorilon said:


> Yes, I had these problem with my old Spring 2 KTE and also with my new Holo May KTE. I tried different DC blocker as MagnaHifi (authorize dealer) told me with no success. Then I saw that on my power network the electrical power is around 240V instead of 220-230V as recommended. I took the unit at a friend in a different part of the city and it doesn’t have the hum anymore. So I think that Holo Audio special toroidal are a little sensitive about the main power. I have a lot of other gear but doesn’t have this behavior.


Yeah I had it too

It was what I believe to be how a few things were wired that caused it in my place 

Taking a meter around to outlets and check if they’re wired right was what fixed it along with adding a cleaner device


----------



## eee1111

I got 1.5mhz showing on the may but the sound is all messed uo

my server is the i9 sonic transport........is the server too weak to do 1.5mhz?


----------



## antdroid

I just became a Holo Spring 3 KTE owner! So far loving how it sounds -- paired with Bakoon AMP-13R and Hifiman Susvara.

My first impressions are posted here: https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2021/11/holo-spring-3-kitsune-tuned-edition-kte.html


----------



## cj3209

KenMan85 said:


> It has more to do with the output of the stuff up stream.


Well, I have been using my Spring KTE connected directly to my Mac Mini via the USB cable the Spring came with and it sounds subjectively better than my prior AES connected to my streamer which connects via my network to my Mac Mini.  I say subjectively because I need more time to be sure I'm actually hearing differences not coming from my preceived imagination...lol.  

But I must say, it's at least more convenient because I never turn off my Mac Mini and it instantly connects to the Spring whereas my streamer took a minute or so to connect.


----------



## mfgillia

cj3209 said:


> Well, I have been using my Spring KTE connected directly to my Mac Mini via the USB cable the Spring came with and it sounds subjectively better than my prior AES connected to my streamer which connects via my network to my Mac Mini.  I say subjectively because I need more time to be sure I'm actually hearing differences not coming from my preceived imagination...lol.
> 
> But I must say, it's at least more convenient because I never turn off my Mac Mini and it instantly connects to the Spring whereas my streamer took a minute or so to connect.


Thanks for insights. The usb implementation on the Spring KTE is probably the one single feature that's pulling me towards the direction of buying this. Although the preamp would be a close second.


----------



## mmwwmm

Hi. 

Maybe this has been answered before but I can´t find that info. Sorry if this is the case.
What would be the sonic differences between the Spring 3 Level 2 and the KTE edition? 
Is there any sonic differences between Spring 3 with and without preamp module? (of course taking apart the fact you have a higher and variable ouput)

Thanks!


----------



## KenMan85

mmwwmm said:


> Hi.
> 
> Maybe this has been answered before but I can´t find that info. Sorry if this is the case.
> What would be the sonic differences between the Spring 3 Level 2 and the KTE edition?
> ...


Very very little. You're paying for the usb essentially


----------



## Marutks

Is it possible to buy Spring DAC in the UK?  How much does it cost?


----------



## KenMan85

Marutks said:


> Is it possible to buy Spring DAC in the UK?  How much does it cost?


Wildism would be who you would want to contact if I'm not mistaken


----------



## AryaHD (Dec 6, 2021)

Is there a reduction in sound quality using the SE output compared with balanced? I plan to use it with an SE only amp.


----------



## Mahoro

I have been thinking of getting one, currently using gustard x12
For a 2nd hand one I can found spring 2 L2 for US equiv 1k
Or a new spring3L1 for US equiv. 2.1k

Do you think a spring 2 L2 worth 1k now that spring 3 is out?


----------



## rocky500 (Dec 7, 2021)

Mahoro said:


> I have been thinking of getting one, currently using gustard x12
> For a 2nd hand one I can found spring 2 L2 for US equiv 1k
> Or a new spring3L1 for US equiv. 2.1k
> 
> Do you think a spring 2 L2 worth 1k now that spring 3 is out?


I really enjoyed my Holo spring 2 L2. I moved up to the Spring 3 LV2 and do not think I really gained much at all.
I would have been perfectly happy and what I know now, would most probably just stayed with the Holo2. It is a great dac.
I do have a Singxer SU-6 that I used with both.


----------



## KenMan85

As Cameron Oakley of Golden sound said. The holo 3 sounds closer to the May, than the holo 2.  And performs objectively closure too


----------



## Mahoro

KenMan85 said:


> As Cameron Oakley of Golden sound said. The holo 3 sounds closer to the May, than the holo 2.  And performs objectively closure too


Yes, I have been browsing internet all along and this is the only good comparison I can find, which is why I Wonder should I shell out that kinda money for a DAC....

I've got enough complain from my wife on deciding a 1k 2nd hand spring 2 dac, tho I don't want to be eyeing a new one after getting spring 2......


----------



## KenMan85

Mahoro said:


> Yes, I have been browsing internet all along and this is the only good comparison I can find, which is why I Wonder should I shell out that kinda money for a DAC....
> 
> I've got enough complain from my wife on deciding a 1k 2nd hand spring 2 dac, tho I don't want to be eyeing a new one after getting spring 2......



Then maybe just walk away from the upgrade for now.


----------



## hifixman

Chinese R2R are all flawed with Holo sounds hollow and T plus sounds Stage minus.

Metrum (sonnet) is true and way more life like-sounding with analogue tuning, period. If MSB is out of budget.


----------



## ShangriLa (Dec 9, 2021)

This question may be best addressed by Holo Audio. The Spring 3 (KTE?) has a new USB module for support of AMD based computer playback, while all Intel-based systems are already fully supported. What about Apple M1 based laptops? Are they already supported, or they need software/hardware update for full support?


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 12, 2021)

Hi folks 
am considering to get a Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE to pair with Ferrum OOR amp / HYPSOS power unit.
Currently owning a Shanling M30 delta sigma as source and realized that I am good with a source voltage of 5,2V to have enough headroom left driving my Abyss Phi TC and Susvara (currently going to around 45% max volume with TC and 55 max with Susvara depending on the recording volume).
Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE stock version is providing a fixed output voltage of 5,8V which should provide me even more headroom.
Question is if the preamp version will provide some advantage / different sound signature besides providing more voltage?
Thx and Cheers!


----------



## ksorota

FooFighter said:


> Hi folks
> am considering to get a Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE to pair with Ferrum OOR amp / HYPSOS power unit.
> Currently owning a Shanling M30 delta sigma as source and realized that I am good with a source voltage of 5,2V to have enough headroom left driving my Abyss Phi TC and Susvara (currently going to around 45% max volume with TC and 55 max with Susvara depending on the recording volume).
> Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE stock version is providing a fixed output voltage of 5,8V which should provide me even more headroom.
> ...


Talk to @OneEyedHito, I believe he has that exact setup at the moment...or something very close.


----------



## FooFighter

ksorota said:


> Talk to @OneEyedHito, I believe he has that exact setup at the moment...or something very close.


I will but I know he's now having the preamp version and wants to trade against stock as he's using a separate preamp


----------



## thecrow

zorilon said:


> I had the Spring 2 KTE and now I have the Holo May KTE. In my system (Susvara and Niimbus US4 amp) the Spring 2 KTE sounded more natural, pleasing with authority bass, perfect midrange and holographic presentation, analog sound.
> 
> The Holo May in my system has a not so great tonality. The midrange and upper midrange is more forward, sounds more Hi-fi timbre, the bass is so accurate that loses the robustness that Spring 2 KTE has. The highs are almost the same.
> 
> ...


Hi. I have the us4 and susvara and have ordered the holo may level 3.
Curious to read what your latest impressions of the may are including relative to the spring

thanks in advance


----------



## FooFighter

Just to confirm: Holo products don't support either IOS or Android sources, do they?
Just Windows, MacOS and Linux.
Just asking as I found it quite convenient streaming Apple Music out of my IPAD in the past to my DAC.
That won't work anymore using some Spring 3 KTE, right?


----------



## KenMan85

FooFighter said:


> Just to confirm: Holo products don't support either IOS or Android sources, do they?
> Just Windows, MacOS and Linux.
> Just asking as I found it quite convenient streaming Apple Music out of my IPAD in the past to my DAC.
> That won't work anymore using some Spring 3 KTE, right?


I plug my android phone in via USB just fine..


----------



## FooFighter

KenMan85 said:


> I plug my android phone in via USB just fine..


Really?
Can someone please test IOS?


----------



## KenMan85

Works fine too
 My friend used his iPhone with spotify


----------



## FooFighter

Gosh, why isn't it in the product description?
Now I am very keen getting the Spring 3 KTE though the footprint is still bugging me on my small working desk.
Thx guys!


----------



## KenMan85

FooFighter said:


> Gosh, why isn't it in the product description?
> Now I am very keen getting the Spring 3 KTE though the footprint is still bugging me on my small working desk.
> Thx guys!


Yep I use a seperate shelf for that stuff but yeah it's a solid dac


----------



## FooFighter

KenMan85 said:


> Yep I use a seperate shelf for that stuff but yeah it's a solid dac


Maybe will just mount it angled by 90 degrees to the side of my wooden file cabinet - just joking 😉


----------



## ksorota

FooFighter said:


> Gosh, why isn't it in the product description?
> Now I am very keen getting the Spring 3 KTE though the footprint is still bugging me on my small working desk.
> Thx guys!



Firmware updates require windows…everything else works fine as a transport. Using m1 mac mini now, and have used my iphone.


----------



## laialbert

FooFighter said:


> Gosh, why isn't it in the product description?
> Now I am very keen getting the Spring 3 KTE though the footprint is still bugging me on my small working desk.
> Thx guys!



I’ve used it with my iPad before, but mostly with my Mac. Should work with pretty much any OS as long as they can drive a USB audio device. Firmware updates do require Windows (which in my experience are a bit fiddly to get to work.)


----------



## KenMan85

laialbert said:


> I’ve used it with my iPad before, but mostly with my Mac. Should work with pretty much any OS as long as they can drive a USB audio device. Firmware updates do require Windows (which in my experience are a bit fiddly to get to work.)


For the 20 mute portion hold down the M key


----------



## laialbert

KenMan85 said:


> For the 20 mute portion hold down the M key


Yeah, I did that, but I found that I had to move the sliders up and down multiple times before pressing down the M key.


----------



## KenMan85

laialbert said:


> Yeah, I did that, but I found that I had to move the sliders up and down multiple times before pressing down the M key.


Ah yes.  I did it wrong first.

Slide them both to 100 then both to 0 then both to 50.

Then set them to the individual positions in the walk through.


----------



## KenMan85

Update firmware for Linux base systems in holo page allows for my streamer to play back pcm at proper volume.


----------



## FooFighter

Can you please post the Spring KTE fw download page?
Thx!


----------



## KenMan85

It


FooFighter said:


> Can you please post the Spring KTE fw download page?
> Thx!


It's the main product page for the spring. Just scroll down


----------



## ksorota

Disregard


----------



## mudguardiain

I am due to receive my Holo Spring 3KTE Thursday. After a couple of years of consideration I recently sold off my turntable & associated hardware to focus on digital replay. I recently tried a M-Scaler with my Qutest & whilst technically it was quite impressive I was not convinced it added any significant gains in terms of emotional connection to my music. I had a similar experience when I borrowed a HugoTT2. Have taken a punt on the Spring 3 KTE after much research. I will post my impressions at a later date but expect to have a Qutest for sale quite soon if things work out as expected. I will be running the Spring from my Melco N1A EX into by Burson Soloist 3X. Hoping this set up will keep me entertained for some time.


----------



## KenMan85

mudguardiain said:


> I am due to receive my Holo Spring 3KTE Thursday. After a couple of years of consideration I recently sold off my turntable & associated hardware to focus on digital replay. I recently tried a M-Scaler with my Qutest & whilst technically it was quite impressive I was not convinced it added any significant gains in terms of emotional connection to my music. I had a similar experience when I borrowed a HugoTT2. Have taken a punt on the Spring 3 KTE after much research. I will post my impressions at a later date but expect to have a Qutest for sale quite soon if things work out as expected. I will be running the Spring from my Melco N1A EX into by Burson Soloist 3X. Hoping this set up will keep me entertained for some time.


Burn in is real. The first 24 hours is the most significant. It is a very bright and forward dac out of the box and cold


----------



## duranxv

Just joined the Spring 3 KTE club   Upgraded from a Bifrost 2. Now the burn-in begins!


----------



## Delta9K

duranxv said:


> Just joined the Spring 3 KTE club  Upgraded from a Bifrost 2. Now the burn-in begins!


Congratulations !! The Spring V3 KTE is an outstanding piece of kit, Enjoy !


----------



## duranxv

Delta9K said:


> Congratulations !! The Spring V3 KTE is an outstanding piece of kit, Enjoy !



Thanks!


----------



## Mahoro

Will be getting a 2nd hand holo spring 1 level 2 Wild Edition Extreme for USD 710 equiv.

I will be connecting it raspberry pi via a DAC head with I2S.

Hopefully its worth it


----------



## mudguardiain

The burn in process is always interesting, I quite enjoy it. I recently added the Premium braided Audeze cable (as used on the LCD-4) to my LCD-3 & this went through a few changes & is now very smooth & detailed, along with the new designed LCD pads, the two really make quite a significant improvement to the LCD-3's to the extent I will keep them for sometime. I will post my experiences of the burn in of the Holo. It is ideal arriving this side of Christmas as I have time off & will be able to get some decent listening time in. Having recently borrowed the M-scaler for my Qutest I will give my thoughts between this & the Holo Dac. The M-scaler was good, but to me did it did not get my foot tapping as much as I had hoped.


----------



## Mahoro

Now I have to setup my raspberry pi on the oversampling ,in the mean time bluesound node 2
Now I know what timbre meant


----------



## mudguardiain

The Spring 3 KTE arrived yesterday, had a couple of hours listening last night & was not expecting too much straight out of the box. However, it was clear straight away that this is a fantastic DAC, even without any burn in I am seriously impressed, my much loved Qutest is not close to this DAC. Fist impressions are really just how real the music felt, very natural but still resolving. Looking forward to see what changes occur over the next few days/weeks. It connected to the Melco straight away, no issue with compatibility.


----------



## KenMan85

I


mudguardiain said:


> The Spring 3 KTE arrived yesterday, had a couple of hours listening last night & was not expecting too much straight out of the box. However, it was clear straight away that this is a fantastic DAC, even without any burn in I am seriously impressed, my much loved Qutest is not close to this DAC. Fist impressions are really just how real the music felt, very natural but still resolving. Looking forward to see what changes occur over the next few days/weeks. It connected to the Melco straight away, no issue with compatibility.


It will sound different again today lol


----------



## FooFighter

Hi 
Anyone owning or having owned some better Chord stack like TT2 / Dave + optional Mscaler and can share comparisons vs Spring 3 KTE / May?
I am about to order Spring 3 KTE.
That review puzzled me bit though finishing with a recommendation against Holo Audio, especially Spring 3...


----------



## mfgillia (Dec 19, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Hi
> Anyone owning or having owned some better Chord stack like TT2 / Dave + optional Mscaler and can share comparisons vs Spring 3 KTE / May?
> I am about to order Spring 3 KTE.
> That review puzzled me bit though finishing with a recommendation against Holo Audio, especially Spring 3...



I also plan to get the Spring 3 KTE with preamp after a ton of research and discussions with those who tastes historically more closely match mine.

I do enjoy watching Lachlan's reviews but often don't find his conclusions match mine on gear I've heard.


----------



## FooFighter

Actually I am not planning on getting the preamp module as the 5.8Vrms fixed output will provide more than enough headroom even with my Susvara / TC out of my Ferrum stack with analogue volume control.
I am though still hoping to get some feedback here regarding the mentioned Chord comparisons I.e TT2, anything above is anyway not comparable price wise.

Another question I have is regarding performance in a streaming setup like e.g Aries or Ifi Zen Streamer, etc or using alternative streaming services like Apple Music / Amazon Music HD where you cannot apply HQplayer upscaling / filters?
Can Spring 3 KTE be recommended at all for such scenarios compared to competitors?


----------



## eee1111 (Dec 19, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Hi
> Anyone owning or having owned some better Chord stack like TT2 / Dave + optional Mscaler and can share comparisons vs Spring 3 KTE / May?
> I am about to order Spring 3 KTE.
> That review puzzled me bit though finishing with a recommendation against Holo Audio, especially Spring 3...



Only you can decide what you like.

But I think that once you get it and start listening maybe with some roon + hqplayer……you will never give that a click again. I wrote in the other topic I don’t agree with the TT2 comparison.

Get a source that can output 1.5mhz. The May can do it im not sure about the spring. Anyway 768 is good too.


----------



## FooFighter

eee1111 said:


> Only you can decide what you like.
> 
> But I think that once you get it and start listening maybe with some roon + hqplayer……you will never give that a click again. I wrote in the other topic I don’t agree with the TT2 comparison.
> 
> Get a source that can output 1.5mhz. The May can do it im not sure about the spring. Anyway 768 is good too.


Spring should be able to do 1,5 MHz too from what I understand


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 19, 2021)

I am organizing a collective order for Spring 3 to get some % price reduction for Europe, preferred around Germany / NL.
Am planning to get the order placed by tomorrow.
Any seriously interested people, pls pm me.
Thx


----------



## FooFighter

Anyone here using Audirvana instead of HQPLAYER?
I have once purchased the one time fee desktop version (non studio) and wondering if I can set comparable upsampling / filters matching to many times before stated HQPLAYER settings of 1,5Mhz etc.


----------



## KenMan85

FooFighter said:


> Actually I am not planning on getting the preamp module as the 5.8Vrms fixed output will provide more than enough headroom even with my Susvara / TC out of my Ferrum stack with analogue volume control.
> I am though still hoping to get some feedback here regarding the mentioned Chord comparisons I.e TT2, anything above is anyway not comparable price wise.
> 
> Another question I have is regarding performance in a streaming setup like e.g Aries or Ifi Zen Streamer, etc or using alternative streaming services like Apple Music / Amazon Music HD where you cannot apply HQplayer upscaling / filters?
> Can Spring 3 KTE be recommended at all for such scenarios compared to competitors?


I prefer UN upsampled keep that r2r natural sound


----------



## duranxv

If I lower the output volume from the Holo Control Panel, will the DAC still transmit a bit perfect signal to the amplifiers?  Assuming the Windows volume is at 100%


----------



## KenMan85

duranxv said:


> If I lower the output volume from the Holo Control Panel, will the DAC still transmit a bit perfect signal to the amplifiers?  Assuming the Windows volume is at 100%


Should be.  It would just at a lower voltage


----------



## Mahoro

Btw, 


KenMan85 said:


> I prefer UN upsampled keep that r2r natural sound


Btw I have also tried up sample using from 44.1 to 192 in moode audio (Camilla DSP) with holo spring as NOS.

The background seems noisier (richer?)and just not as nice compare to unsampling.


----------



## mudguardiain

mfgillia said:


> I also plan to get the Spring 3 KTE with preamp after a ton of research and discussions with those who tastes historically more closely match mine.
> 
> I do enjoy watching Lachlan's reviews but often don't find his conclusions match mine on gear I've heard.


I like Lachlan's reviews also, but don't really agree with everything he likes, everyone is different. I have borrowed the TT2 twice & M-Scaler with my Qutest & whilst both were very good, for me they were not quite what I was looking for, just did not quite seem as "real" as I was hoping, the Spring seems to be more natural to my ears. currently still burning in so cannot give a definite review yet, but so far seems to be closer to what I am looking for & I prefer over the TT2.


----------



## mmwwmm

mudguardiain said:


> The Spring 3 KTE arrived yesterday, had a couple of hours listening last night & was not expecting too much straight out of the box. However, it was clear straight away that this is a fantastic DAC, even without any burn in I am seriously impressed, my much loved Qutest is not close to this DAC. Fist impressions are really just how real the music felt, very natural but still resolving. Looking forward to see what changes occur over the next few days/weeks. It connected to the Melco straight away, no issue with compatibility.


Is it your Spring 3 KTE with the preamp module installed? 

BTW I´ll love to hear from someone who heard S3 KTE with and without preamp module and elaborate about the sonic differences (if any) between both versions. I´d like to know if the preamp module is almost 100% transparent as the manufacturer claims (frankly, I doubt it) and its impact on the final sound compared with a S3 KTE without preamp.


----------



## KenMan85

mmwwmm said:


> Is it your Spring 3 KTE with the preamp module installed?
> 
> BTW I´ll love to hear from someone who heard S3 KTE with and without preamp module and elaborate about the sonic differences (if any) between both versions. I´d like to know if the preamp module is almost 100% transparent as the manufacturer claims (frankly, I doubt it) and its impact on the final sound compared with a S3 KTE without preamp.


The pre amp is almost as good as the serene is.  I have the non pre. But I tend to Beleive guys like golden sound


----------



## mmwwmm

KenMan85 said:


> The pre amp is almost as good as the serene is.  I have the non pre. But I tend to Beleive guys like golden sound


Thanks. I know the golden sound review but I´d love to know some other first hand opinions too.


----------



## KenMan85

mmwwmm said:


> Thanks. I know the golden sound review but I´d love to know some other first hand opinions too.


I don't know that you'll find a reviewer that had two units sent to them.


----------



## mmwwmm

KenMan85 said:


> I don't know that you'll find a reviewer that had two units sent to them.


Yes, I know it´s difficult but...


----------



## Marutks

I ordered Spring 3 KTE DAC.


----------



## FooFighter

Marutks said:


> I ordered Spring 3 KTE DAC.


Me too today


----------



## BlakeT

Previously my Spring 3 was connected to a Windows laptop.  Now it is connected to an older MacBook Pro.   

When playing songs on the internet (YouTube, bandcamp, etc.), from the MacBook Pro, for some reason the sound will suddenly stop.  The time tracker on the song will keep moving forward, but there is no sound.  So it seems the Spring is losing its lock on the signal?  

Rebooting the Spring solves the problem each time and I get sound, but this happens once or twice each day.  I never had these issues when the Spring was connected to my Windows laptop.

Anyone experience anything similar or have any ideas?

TIA


----------



## FooFighter

BlakeT said:


> Previously my Spring 3 was connected to a Windows laptop.  Now it is connected to an older MacBook Pro.
> 
> When playing songs on the internet (YouTube, bandcamp, etc.), from the MacBook Pro, for some reason the sound will suddenly stop.  The time tracker on the song will keep moving forward, but there is no sound.  So it seems the Spring is losing its lock on the signal?
> 
> ...


Will tell you once I get it but am getting concerned as I am planning using the same source.
How are music sources?
Audirvana, Roon (should get some exclusive access?), Tidal native app, Amazon Music, Apple Music?


----------



## mfgillia

BlakeT said:


> Previously my Spring 3 was connected to a Windows laptop.  Now it is connected to an older MacBook Pro.
> 
> When playing songs on the internet (YouTube, bandcamp, etc.), from the MacBook Pro, for some reason the sound will suddenly stop.  The time tracker on the song will keep moving forward, but there is no sound.  So it seems the Spring is losing its lock on the signal?
> 
> ...


Did you try updating the firmware? You should also check back with the distributor who sold it to you for additional support.


----------



## dudeX

BlakeT said:


> Previously my Spring 3 was connected to a Windows laptop.  Now it is connected to an older MacBook Pro.
> 
> When playing songs on the internet (YouTube, bandcamp, etc.), from the MacBook Pro, for some reason the sound will suddenly stop.  The time tracker on the song will keep moving forward, but there is no sound.  So it seems the Spring is losing its lock on the signal?
> 
> ...


At the moment I have a Topping D90SE connected to my MacBookPro and every now and then (like every two weeks or so), music or videos refuse to play. I don't reboot my DAC but I unplug the USB cable. Another thing I do is open the Activity Monitor and "force quit" the process "coreaudiod" which is the main program to playback sound from any application. That usually does it. Occasionally that doesn't work so I just reboot the MacBookPro.


----------



## FooFighter (Dec 20, 2021)

MacOS is kind of driverless for DACs (using a generic interface for all DACs in reality in contrast to Windows ASIO drivers which on the other hand also introduces limits for e.g DSD playback over DOP) and I can only speculate about reasons such as an exclusive lock of one application (like the mentioned music apps) which is preventing playback of other sources respectively relocking the signal path.
I am personally not planning using other apps than music streaming apps.
For videos I am exclusively using my Airpods Max.
In general I always have the audio mixer and the sound app open so I can see which device is used as primary device - that's also worth to be checked in such cases


----------



## mudguardiain

mmwwmm said:


> Is it your Spring 3 KTE with the preamp module installed?
> 
> BTW I´ll love to hear from someone who heard S3 KTE with and without preamp module and elaborate about the sonic differences (if any) between both versions. I´d like to know if the preamp module is almost 100% transparent as the manufacturer claims (frankly, I doubt it) and its impact on the final sound compared with a S3 KTE without preamp.


Mine is fixed output, no preamp, hooked up to my Burson Soloist. The DAC is far from burned in, I found the sound got a little brighter over the weekend, not harsh, just a bit less warm sounding. My experience of burn in from past items is that burn in is not always linear & can appear to almost get worse for short periods. Will have to see how the Spring changes over the coming days/weeks. My initial impressions are it will be compatible with what I am looking for in a DAC. My inspiration for improving my audio gear is to try & create the emotional experience I get from seeing a live gig as best I can through my headphones, hopefully the Spring will take me a step closer. I did not feel the TT2 managed this as well as I had hoped, especially given the price tag. Others will probably have a completely different take on it, this is the beauty of this hobby.


----------



## MatW (Dec 20, 2021)

Can someone please confirm that the height of the Spring is 55 mm *including the feet*? Getting ready for an incoming unit... 

Edit: got the answer. It's without the feet. 66 mm including feet, in case anyone would like to know..😊


----------



## mudguardiain

mudguardiain said:


> Mine is fixed output, no preamp, hooked up to my Burson Soloist. The DAC is far from burned in, I found the sound got a little brighter over the weekend, not harsh, just a bit less warm sounding. My experience of burn in from past items is that burn in is not always linear & can appear to almost get worse for short periods. Will have to see how the Spring changes over the coming days/weeks. My initial impressions are it will be compatible with what I am looking for in a DAC. My inspiration for improving my audio gear is to try & create the emotional experience I get from seeing a live gig as best I can through my headphones, hopefully the Spring will take me a step closer. I did not feel the TT2 managed this as well as I had hoped, especially given the price tag. Others will probably have a completely different take on it, this is the beauty of this hobby.


As anyone noticed any bass bloat during burn in. I am at approx 160 hours powered up with around 25 hours of music played so far. I am finding an increase any bass quantity but a loss of definition & texture. The bass is bleeding Ito the midrange quite badly. I assume, hope the bass will tighten up with further burn in but as present everything feels very dominated by too much bottom end which is masking finer details.


----------



## koso (Dec 23, 2021)

mudguardiain said:


> As anyone noticed any bass bloat during burn in. I am at approx 160 hours powered up with around 25 hours of music played so far. I am finding an increase any bass quantity but a loss of definition & texture. The bass is bleeding Ito the midrange quite badly. I assume, hope the bass will tighten up with further burn in but as present everything feels very dominated by too much bottom end which is masking finer details.


Don't worry. According to my experience, at 160 hours of proper burn in, you are nowhere near to stabilize sound. At about 300-400 hours I noticed that everything was quite stable without any further big ups and downs. And after another 200-300 hours there will be last few slight improvements audible. Patience is the key word here.

And important note. You HAVE TO PLAY MUSIC to count hours of proper “burn in”. It is not enough just to let unit ON. However, it is not needed to have amp on, just source and dac. DAC have to do some “work”, to do some conversion, otherwise burn in process will by extremely long (and this device has very long burn in period even with proper burn in).


----------



## KenMan85

koso said:


> Don't worry. According to my experience, at 160 hours of proper burn in, you are nowhere near to stabilize sound. At about 300-400 hours I noticed that everything was quite stable without any further big ups and downs. And after another 200-300 hours there will be last few slight improvements audible. Patience is the key word here.
> 
> And important note. You HAVE TO PLAY MUSIC to count hours of proper “burn in”. It is not enough just to let unit ON. However, it is not needed to have amp on, just source and dac. DAC have to do some “work”, to do some conversion, otherwise burn in process will by extremely long (and this device has very long burn in period even with proper burn in).


True, I haven't turned mine of for much time since I got it.


----------



## FooFighter

Sorry for the noob question but I was reading that people use NOS mode on the Spring and then perform upsampling externally on apps like HQPlayer.
What's the difference between NOS + upsampling and OS + upsampling if there's no built-in OS anyway?


----------



## mudguardiain

koso said:


> Don't worry. According to my experience, at 160 hours of proper burn in, you are nowhere near to stabilize sound. At about 300-400 hours I noticed that everything was quite stable without any further big ups and downs. And after another 200-300 hours there will be last few slight improvements audible. Patience is the key word here.
> 
> And important note. You HAVE TO PLAY MUSIC to count hours of proper “burn in”. It is not enough just to let unit ON. However, it is not needed to have amp on, just source and dac. DAC have to do some “work”, to do some conversion, otherwise burn in process will by extremely long (and this device has very long burn in period even with proper burn in).


Thanks for the info, I will keep on playing, got a week or so off work now, so plenty of listening time & in between will keep the music playing. Got high hopes for this DAC, it certainly shows a lot of promise, seems to change a little each time I listen.


----------



## davide256

Anyone have thoughts on whether the optional pre section is better than an external pre-amp? I'm using a Linear Tube Audio MZ2 as pre, whenever I've tried DAC's direct to amp, transients get a bit sharper but mid range suffers loss of bloom and tone color solidity.


----------



## davide256 (Dec 26, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> Sorry for the noob question but I was reading that people use NOS mode on the Spring and then perform upsampling externally on apps like HQPlayer.
> What's the difference between NOS + upsampling and OS + upsampling if there's no built-in OS anyway?


You don't want to over/up-sample whats already over/up-sampled, that creates artifacts. Using NOS allows cleaner up-sampling for more powerful external up-sampling solutions like  HQPlayer and PGGB.


----------



## FooFighter

davide256 said:


> You don't want to over/up-sample whats already over/up-sampled, that creates artifacts. Using NOS allows cleaner up-sampling for more powerful external up-sampling solutions like  HQPlayer and PGGB.


But that's the point I wanted to make.
There's NO built-in upsampling in Spring.
So again: what's the difference?


----------



## mudguardiain

koso said:


> Don't worry. According to my experience, at 160 hours of proper burn in, you are nowhere near to stabilize sound. At about 300-400 hours I noticed that everything was quite stable without any further big ups and downs. And after another 200-300 hours there will be last few slight improvements audible. Patience is the key word here.
> 
> And important note. You HAVE TO PLAY MUSIC to count hours of proper “burn in”. It is not enough just to let unit ON. However, it is not needed to have amp on, just source and dac. DAC have to do some “work”, to do some conversion, otherwise burn in process will by extremely long (and this device has very long burn in period even with proper burn in).


My Spring has undergone quite a bit of improvement over the last 2-3 days, playing music overnight with amp off & listening to quite a lot during the day. The over riding impression is how real the music sounds. the dac is becoming more coherent with everything beginning to play well as a whole. Plenty of detail but never forced or distracting, everything very natural. I have not heard a large amount of other days & to be honest I don't think I need to, the Spring is playing music how I wish to listen to it, highly engaging & life like. I do not not have the option for upscaling with my Melco but don't feel like I am missing anything anyway. Since having the Melco upgraded during some repairs, the addition of minim server has given the sound much better air & spatial presentation. Will be interesting to see how much more the Spring evolves, think it will be in my system for a long time to come.


----------



## davide256 (Dec 26, 2021)

FooFighter said:


> But that's the point I wanted to make.
> There's NO built-in upsampling in Spring.
> So again: what's the difference?


A powerful up sampler algorithm can create more separation between instruments... musical lines become clearer. But there can be a trade off
if the recording isn't the greatest... midrange can sound thinner and overall sound can become edgier. Having a  DAC that gives you the most possible
with no up sampling is a good thing for your less than perfect recordings.


----------



## FooFighter

davide256 said:


> A powerful up sampler algorithm can create more separation between instruments... musical lines become clearer. But there can be a trade off
> if the recording isn't the greatest... midrange can sound thinner and overall sound can become edgier. Having a  DAC that gives you the most possible
> with no up sampling is a good thing for your less than perfect recordings.


You still don't get my point.
I am aware of what upsampling can do.
To make my question more detailed:
Which audible / design difference is between Holo Audio Spring "OS" setting set ON THE SPRING DAC ITSELF vs "NOS" setting if there's no circuit connected to either OS or NOS?
That's what I am wondering about.
Or is there an implementation difference on the Spring DAC?


----------



## kingoftown1

The Spring 3 doesn't have an internal oversampling option.


----------



## FooFighter

kingoftown1 said:


> The Spring 3 doesn't have an internal oversampling option.


So there's no menue item selecting OS in Spring 3?
Just watching GoldenOne's review again I think I now understand where I have read it before: the option was inside up to Spring 2 and now has been completely removed also from the menue.
Sorry for the confusion


----------



## duranxv

With the Spring 3 KTE, any reason to go above 24 bit / 96khz?  I see it can go up to 32 bit 384khz, but I'm wondering if that's overkill.

Also, any particular ASIO buffer size I should utilize?  Any reason to go above 512 samples if I'm trying to keep latency lower?


----------



## davide256 (Dec 28, 2021)

duranxv said:


> With the Spring 3 KTE, any reason to go above 24 bit / 96khz?  I see it can go up to 32 bit 384khz, but I'm wondering if that's overkill.
> 
> Also, any particular ASIO buffer size I should utilize?  Any reason to go above 512 samples if I'm trying to keep latency lower?


The mfrs web site states that it will do up to 1536/32 on USB/ i2s.  Good resampling algorithms include a predictive algorithm that improve results with increased re-sampling rate and high number of taps. I play PGGB converted files at 7xx/24 and 512K taps feeding a Chord Mojo, the difference is large from 3xx/24 for instrument separation and clarity of background instruments. Haven't had a DAC/USB endpoint yet that would do 1536/24, but those that have support boast of further improvements from the increase in
up-sample rate.


----------



## davide256 (Dec 28, 2021)

BTW, has anyone seen any review comparisons of the different  Spring 3 levels?

Wondering what you get for sonic gains as you step through level 1, level 2 and KTE edition. The level 1 is about the same price as a Denafrips Pontus, wondering if performance wise they are close. While I liked the Denafrips Ares II, it was unsuited for external up-sampling, applied linear interpolation even in its "NOS" mode, which
appears part of the design for Pontus as well


----------



## koso

mudguardiain said:


> My Spring has undergone quite a bit of improvement over the last 2-3 days, playing music overnight with amp off & listening to quite a lot during the day. The over riding impression is how real the music sounds. the dac is becoming more coherent with everything beginning to play well as a whole. Plenty of detail but never forced or distracting, everything very natural. I have not heard a large amount of other days & to be honest I don't think I need to, the Spring is playing music how I wish to listen to it, highly engaging & life like. I do not not have the option for upscaling with my Melco but don't feel like I am missing anything anyway. Since having the Melco upgraded during some repairs, the addition of minim server has given the sound much better air & spatial presentation. Will be interesting to see how much more the Spring evolves, think it will be in my system for a long time to come.


I am quite sure there will be another improvement in about next two weeks.


----------



## Marutks

My Spring 3 KTE DAC arrived today.


----------



## JeffMann

Marutks said:


> My Spring 3 KTE DAC arrived today.



I noted that you purchased it from Wildism Audio. For USA audiophiles, are there different buyer options for purchasing this DAC that will offer a price discount and/or a speedier delivery time?

Jeff.


----------



## Delta9K

JeffMann said:


> For USA audiophiles, are there different buyer options for purchasing this DAC that will offer a price discount and/or a speedier delivery time?


In the United States/North America Kitsune Hifi is the distributor for HoloAudio USA. Tim at Kitsune is a great guy, and if you have questions regarding delivery options or more it's best to reach out to him directly. There are contact options on the website (kitsunehifi.com).


----------



## kingoftown1

There's a Spring 3 KTE w/ Preamp on TMR for $3299


----------



## soulrider4ever

kingoftown1 said:


> There's a Spring 3 KTE w/ Preamp on TMR for $3299


Thanks for this heads up! I picked it up - might be selling my Spring1 L2 if I feel it’s worth the upgrade!


----------



## Bobji

BlakeT said:


> Previously my Spring 3 was connected to a Windows laptop.  Now it is connected to an older MacBook Pro.
> 
> When playing songs on the internet (YouTube, bandcamp, etc.), from the MacBook Pro, for some reason the sound will suddenly stop.  The time tracker on the song will keep moving forward, but there is no sound.  So it seems the Spring is losing its lock on the signal?
> 
> ...



Try turning of PLL. Sometimes it has a delay locking in. I have found no SQ loss doing so.


----------



## Mahoro

soulrider4ever said:


> Thanks for this heads up! I picked it up - might be selling my Spring1 L2 if I feel it’s worth the upgrade!


If you gonna upgrade, please do a comparison between spring 1 and 3.

So far I am pretty content with my spring 1 level 3 (wildism extreme). I wonder how far better can get over the upgrade.


----------



## soulrider4ever

Mahoro said:


> If you gonna upgrade, please do a comparison between spring 1 and 3.
> 
> So far I am pretty content with my spring 1 level 3 (wildism extreme). I wonder how far better can get over the upgrade.


Yeah man definitely! My local dealer is also going to have me demo the XI AUDIO Sagra DAC - so it will be a 3 way throwdown.  I can do a headphone comparison but my main use case is my 2.0 stereo setup (Pass Labs XA30.8 powering Magico A1 speakers) - so plenty of resolution


----------



## FooFighter

Hi folks 
First of all Happy New Year to everyone!
I am currently out for Christmas vacation but impatiently awaiting my new Spring 3 KTE by end of the coming week.
In order to prepare myself for checking firmware (am on MacOS and would have to misuse my company WIN10 laptop), eventually updating to newer versions I wanted to seek advice about any best practices as I couldn't find any reference in the downloaded manual like 
- physical button shortcuts / initial boot information about the currently installed firmware or do you have to launch setup.exe of any current firmware to find out? 
Actually I hope that a newer firmware is pre-installed anyway - my main use case will be running Audirvana, evt Roon later on + HQPlayer out of my MacBook Pro 2018 using Titanis 2.1 USB input


----------



## Bobji (Jan 1, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> Hi folks
> First of all Happy New Year to everyone!
> I am currently out for Christmas vacation but impatiently awaiting my new Spring 3 KTE by end of the coming week.
> In order to prepare myself for checking firmware (am on MacOS and would have to misuse my company WIN10 laptop), eventually updating to newer versions I wanted to seek advice about any best practices as I couldn't find any reference in the downloaded manual like
> ...



Two things
Check out the 'read me' file in the firmware update. It is about an odd little thing to do in the Windows Sound Control Panel.
Do the driver update to get the HoloAudio Control Panel if necessary.
Had my Spring two weeks. Took 4 weeks to arrive.
It really sings. More than pleased.


----------



## FooFighter

Bobji said:


> Two things
> Check out the 'read me' file in the firmware update. It is about an odd little thing to do in the Windows Sound Control Panel.
> Do the driver update to get the HoloAudio Control Panel if necessary.
> Had my Spring two weeks. Took 4 weeks to arrive.
> It really sings. More than pleased.


Just read the Readme file.
Indeed very odd procedure but fortunately doesn't need to be applied every day


----------



## ShangriLa (Jan 4, 2022)

This may not be a DAC-specific question, but I'm trying to set up Roon/HQPlayer to play with up/over-sampling on my Spring 3 KTE and find the process to be very complicated. Is there any guide I can follow? Thanks.

PS - according to here, the latest HQPlayer is supposed to be able to stream Qobuz natively. But under 'album view' I dont see the option of Qobuz.

Or would Audirvana be easier to set up for Oversmapling, how is the quality? Btw why does all this have to be so complicated. I'm ashamed of being an engineer in the tech industry.


----------



## mmwwmm (Jan 4, 2022)

I am reading almost every comment posted about the Spring 3 over the web and It seems there are more "shadows than lights" in its performance specially compared to the Spring 2... Except for the couple of youtubers we all know there are almost no "pro" reviews and there are several comments from new S3 KTE owners that seems a bit dissapointed to say the least (remember, it´s a +3000$ unit and I expected a lot more nice first impressions).
When I read an owner must burn in this or that audio device for 500-750-1000 hours to reach full potential I raise an eyebrow.
By the way brand new units have showed in the second hand market quickly (it´s true that those units are sold quickly too)
By the way I would love to hear from someone who compare the Spring 3 without preamp module vs a Spring 3 with Preamp module. As far as I know nobody have compared both versions and I think there must be a sonic difference between them. I think the version without preamp must be cleaner and purer sounding no matter how transparent the preamp module would be.
At the end is an active stage and every active stage has an impact on final sound no matter how expensive or sophisticated it is.
Please, don´t get me wrong. I really want the S3 KTE to be a stellar sounding machine cause I´m looking for the kind of sound the manufacturer of the Holo advertises  but reading all these comments makes me a bit reluctant to blindly spend more than 3000$ cause there are very few places where appoint a demo of these units.


----------



## Marutks

ShangriLa said:


> This may not be a DAC-specific question, but I'm trying to set up Roon/HQPlayer to play with up/over-sampling on my Spring 3 KTE and find the process to be very complicated.



It is not complicated:

Start HQPlayer.  
Select Spring 3 as your output device.
Choose your favourite upsampling settings.
Select "Allow control from network" in the menu bar.
In Roon add HQPlayer and enter IP address of computer where your HQPplayer is running.
Select HQPlayer audio zone.   click play and enjoy !


----------



## Marutks

mmwwmm said:


> I am reading almost every comment posted about the Spring 3 over the web and It seems there are more "shadows than lights" in its performance specially compared to the Spring 2...



GoldenSound said Spring 3 is much better than Spring 2.
I have had only delta sigma DACs before and my Spring 3 sounds better than Topping D90. 
I was afraid there will be no audible difference ( because of what Z-review said about May DAC ).



mmwwmm said:


> I think the version without preamp must be cleaner and purer sounding no matter how transparent the preamp module would be.



Go for no-preamp version then.  Many headphone amps have preamp outputs.



mmwwmm said:


> I really want the S3 KTE to be a stellar sounding machine



I bought my S3 after watching youtube reviews (by GoldenSound and some others).  I am very happy with my S3.


----------



## davide256

mmwwmm said:


> I am reading almost every comment posted about the Spring 3 over the web and It seems there are more "shadows than lights" in its performance specially compared to the Spring 2... Except for the couple of youtubers we all know there are almost no "pro" reviews and there are several comments from new S3 KTE owners that seems a bit dissapointed to say the least (remember, it´s a +3000$ unit and I expected a lot more nice first impressions).
> When I read an owner must burn in this or that audio device for 500-750-1000 hours to reach full potential I raise an eyebrow.
> By the way brand new units have showed in the second hand market quickly (it´s true that those units are sold quickly too)
> By the way I would love to hear from someone who compare the Spring 3 without preamp module vs a Spring 3 with Preamp module. As far as I know nobody have compared both versions and I think there must be a sonic difference between them. I think the version without preamp must be cleaner and purer sounding no matter how transparent the preamp module would be.
> ...


The worst I've seen is "its not a May" or "its sounds shallow" compared to their $10K DAC

burn in time is a real thing, I've had it even with headphones. Not a bad practice to leave new electronics on for a week before you get serious about listening

Anyone out there tried an SRC-DX as DDC with the Spring 3? Its made a huge improvement for my Metrum Octave, so much so that I'm questioning whether I would
even use the USB input on the Spring DAC for PCM.


----------



## mmwwmm

Marutks said:


> GoldenSound said Spring 3 is much better than Spring 2.
> I have had only delta sigma DACs before and my Spring 3 sounds better than Topping D90.
> I was afraid there will be no audible difference ( because of what Z-review said about May DAC ).
> 
> ...


Of course I would expect that the Spring KTE clearly outperform the Topping D90. It´s more than 4x price. 
The S3 KTE would need to be compared to Denafrips Venus 2, Hugo TT2, etc.


----------



## FooFighter (Jan 4, 2022)

mmwwmm said:


> Of course I would expect that the Spring KTE clearly outperform the Topping D90. It´s more than 4x price.
> The S3 KTE would need to be compared to Denafrips Venus 2, Hugo TT2, etc.


There are people in this thread who have both TT2 and Spring3 - matter of preference from what I understood.
The same goes for Venus - I think there's a comparison even in this thread some time ago.
From what I understand KTE is needed mostly for the USB module which saves you the extra re-clocking, galvanic isolation devices.
The USB module is very often told to make these superfluous and I remember also GoldenOne suggests to run May / S3 KTE through USB.
SQ wise S3 Level 2 and 3 are told to be very close despite this USB feature.
As another reference point I remember a review (I think it would was also GoldenOne) stating that the difference between Spring 2 and 3 is bigger than between Spring 3 and May...


----------



## mudguardiain

FooFighter said:


> There are people in this thread who have both TT2 and Spring3 - matter of preference from what I understood.
> The same goes for Venus - I think there's a comparison even in this thread some time ago.
> From what I understand KTE is needed mostly for the USB module which saves you the extra re-clocking, galvanic isolation devices.
> The USB module is very often told to make these superfluous and I remember also GoldenOne suggests to run May / S3 KTE through USB.
> ...


I don't have a wide amount of experience with other R2R days, but my Spring 3KTE replaces a Qutest, it is in a different league as you would expect at 2.5 times the price. I have borrowed the TT2 twice & tried the M-Scaler with the Qutest also. In my opinion, the Spring 3 is better than either of these by some margin. The Chords are very good but for me the Spring sounds more real, lifelike. It is not a DAC the gives instant gratification or forced detail, it allows the music to do it's thing in a very natural manner. As with most audio equipment, it will come down to personal preferences, but I cannot see me selling the Spring for a long time. I feel I get more insight to the musicianship of the bands playing & their relationship to each other more so than any other DAC I have listened too. The burn in process does seem protected & still changing to some degree even after two weeks of use.


----------



## BlakeT (Jan 4, 2022)

Stack-O-DAC's


----------



## ShangriLa

Marutks said:


> It is not complicated:
> 
> Start HQPlayer.
> Select Spring 3 as your output device.
> ...


Thanks. That's more or less what I tried. The sound sometimes was stopped when trying different parameters and the DAC was always showing "NOS" even when playing.


----------



## kingoftown1

@mudguardiain said it better than I could.  The spring just sounds right.  It's so easy to live with and enjoy.  It's the last component I'd look to replace


----------



## FooFighter

ShangriLa said:


> Thanks. That's more or less what I tried. The sound sometimes was stopped when trying different parameters and the DAC was always showing "NOS" even when playing.


I feel you but cannot help unless unpacking my incoming spring and try myself at some point during next weeks.
From reading through the posts I conclude for myself following statements for now 
- Spring 3 is NOS only anyway from its implementation and will therefore show NOS on its display even when performing external upsampling 
- HQPlayer might be a great tool but isn't plug and play from all I've read - I will post my running non stuttering configuration once I am there 
- PCM upsampling up to 1,5Mhz is more often recommended than DSD upsampling for Holo Audio Spring and May and is told to consume less compute power than DSD 
- From my limited experience using Audirvana 3.5 upsampling with other DACs each to be upsampled track needs to be processed in advance and that processing time will lead to according gaps before playback is possible. If that processing is done in advance the to be played tracks should then be played back without stuttering - I just assume that HQPlayer is behaving accordingly


----------



## mudguardiain

kingoftown1 said:


> @mudguardiain said it better than I could.  The spring just sounds right.  It's so easy to live with and enjoy.  It's the last component I'd look to replace


When listening to live recordings of bands that I have seen it just bring back memories of the gigs so vividly, I can see the band playing for all they are worth in my mind, just fantastic.


----------



## kingoftown1

Idk if I or anyone else has talked about this re: level 2 vs KTE:
I chose the level 2 specifically because I was already using the Singxer SU-6 + linear power supply.  I didn't have an unlimited budget, so I thought that since USB implementations & chipsets are the quickest to reach obsolescence that I wouldn't put the extra money into that.  If the next best USB solution comes out in a year or two, then I just need to upgrade one box instead of the whole dac.

I also put an SR purple in yesterday, ordered on a whim after having happily used an Acme Silver Cryo CFC fuse for the past few months.  No ultimate conclusions for a few hundred hours, but my initial impressions are that reverb is more pronounced, and instrument separation is a bit better.  It's a weird combo because even if I can pick out individual elements better, the whole sound field sounds more connected.  It seems contradictory thinking about it, but hey.


----------



## FooFighter (Jan 4, 2022)

kingoftown1 said:


> Idk if I or anyone else has talked about this re: level 2 vs KTE:
> I chose the level 2 specifically because I was already using the Singxer SU-6 + linear power supply.  I didn't have an unlimited budget, so I thought that since USB implementations & chipsets are the quickest to reach obsolescence that I wouldn't put the extra money into that.  If the next best USB solution comes out in a year or two, then I just need to upgrade one box instead of the whole dac.
> 
> I also put an SR purple in yesterday, ordered on a whim after having happily used an Acme Silver Cryo CFC fuse for the past few months.  No ultimate conclusions for a few hundred hours, but my initial impressions are that reverb is more pronounced, and instrument separation is a bit better.  It's a weird combo because even if I can pick out individual elements better, the whole sound field sounds more connected.  It seems contradictory thinking about it, but hey.


Nice, reading the SU 1 spec you re though limited to sampling rates up to 384khz.
I have no clue yet myself unless trying it out but I wouldn't want to miss listening to 1,5Mhz upsampled PCM as a rare Holo Audio standalone feature


----------



## kingoftown1

I can get up to 768, but sadly no 1.5.  My current sad excuse for pc can't handle it anyway.  Have a fanless i5 11600-based htpc in the works, so I should be able to really dive into hqplayer when it gets here.  I'm also planning on trying a jcat usb card, moving to all SSD storage, and putting linear power on everything, since I've been on a source + power tweak train lately.  Theoretically, I can use my HDPlex's 19v output for the pc, 7.5v for the spring, and 5v for the jcat.

Since I've already gone off-topic, has anyone tried any of the Elfidelity products that Kitsune sells?  The prices seem too good to be taken seriously, but I can't see Kitsune stocking them if they didn't make _some _difference.


----------



## soulrider4ever

BlakeT said:


> Stack-O-DAC's


Care to share thoughts on them? Which one is  your favorite ?


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## BlakeT (Jan 5, 2022)

Terminator Plus+Gaia DDC _via_ I2S *>>* Terminator Plus via _usb_ *>* Venus 2+Iris DDC _via_ I2S *=* Spring 3 KTE _via_ usb *>* Venus 2 _via_ usb *>>* original Terminator > Qutest + LPS _via_ bnc > Yggy A2 > Qutest + LPS _via _usb *>* Qutest _via_ any input

my ears, brain, systems, sonic preferences and priorities etc.


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## jonathan c

BlakeT said:


> Terminator Plus+Gaia DDC _via_ I2S *>>* Terminator Plus via _usb_ *>* Venus 2+Iris DDC _via_ I2S *=* Spring 3 KTE _via_ usb *>* Venus 2 _via_ usb *>>* original Terminator > Qutest + LPS _via_ bnc > Yggy A2 > Qutest + LPS _via _usb *>* Qutest _via_ any input


Can you say that backwards and free from error?…


----------



## ShangriLa

I was able to get Roon/HQP working with one set of parameters and had a listen on Spring3 KTE. OS sounds dryer and more digital. NOS sounds fuller and more organic. Preferred NOS from the brief listening.


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## FooFighter (Jan 5, 2022)

ShangriLa said:


> I was able to get Roon/HQP working with one set of parameters and had a listen on Spring3 KTE. OS sounds dryer and more digital. NOS sounds fuller and more organic. Preferred NOS from the brief listening.


Have you tried  32FS (PCM1536), Sinc-L filter, with LNS-15 noise shaper?
These are @antdroid s settings which I will try first once I am in the game with my spring.
Also burn-in is told to play a significant role next to the obvious headphones- and amp-synergies and last but not least everything is a matter of personal taste.


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## Marutks (Jan 5, 2022)

I use Sinc-Mx.   How is it different from Sinc-L ?


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## Marutks

mmwwmm said:


> Of course I would expect that the Spring KTE clearly outperform the Topping D90. It´s more than 4x price.



At some point performance improvement becomes too small to be noticeable.
I don't know if I would be able to hear difference between Spring 3 and dCS Rossini (10x price). 
For Z Reviews the May DAC sounds the same as his 200 $ delta sigma DAC !


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## eee1111

Marutks said:


> At some point performance improvement becomes too small to be noticeable.
> I don't know if I would be able to hear difference between Spring 3 and dCS Rossini (10x price).
> For Z Reviews the May DAC sounds the same as his 200 $ delta sigma DAC !


My jaw hit the floor when I heard him say that

People are taking audio advice from someone who has major hearing issues


----------



## soulrider4ever

BlakeT said:


> Terminator Plus+Gaia DDC _via_ I2S *>>* Terminator Plus via _usb_ *>* Venus 2+Iris DDC _via_ I2S *=* Spring 3 KTE _via_ usb *>* Venus 2 _via_ usb *>>* original Terminator > Qutest + LPS _via_ bnc > Yggy A2 > Qutest + LPS _via _usb *>* Qutest _via_ any input
> 
> my ears, brain, systems, sonic preferences and priorities etc.


Thanks for this, seems to be inline with other opinions with some of the same gear.  How is the Spring 3 KTE via I2S?


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## mmwwmm

BlakeT said:


> Venus 2+Iris DDC _via_ I2S *=* Spring 3 KTE _via_ usb


Did you compare the Spring 3 with the Venus 2 both using an external preamp? 

Thanks!


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## BlakeT (Jan 5, 2022)

mmwwmm said:


> Did you compare the Spring 3 with the Venus 2 both using an external preamp?
> 
> Thanks!



Yes, I used/experimented with both DAC's using an external Blue Circle Audio tube preamp in the chain.  My Spring 3 KTE is the version with the preamp module, and you can't bypass the preamp module so you can't completely take it out of the chain.

I just put the Spring volume with no attenuation and then used the Blue Circle pre to attenuate, then vice versa, then compared to just Spring preamp without the Blue Circle pre in the chain.  I also swapped in my Aesthetix Calypso preamp to add another variable for comparison.

After that I experimented using a blend of both the Spring preamp and Blue Circle preamp to attenuate and ended up subjectively preferring that combo.  The Spring preamp is very good, especially considering the modest cost for the module.


----------



## BlakeT

soulrider4ever said:


> Thanks for this, seems to be inline with other opinions with some of the same gear.  How is the Spring 3 KTE via I2S?



I have not yet tried any other input on the Spring.  I have only used the usb input so far.


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## soulrider4ever

BlakeT said:


> I have not yet tried any other input on the Spring.  I have only used the usb input so far.


Understood - would love to see how the USB is vs. using the Gaia/Iris to the Spring 3 KTE over I2S.  If you ever get around to having time to play around with it - would love to get your impressions.


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## FooFighter (Jan 5, 2022)

Anyone here using HQPlayer on MacOS with a MeleUSB Stick as NAA?
Told to be the easiest and cheapest way to get around the DSD and PCM sample rate limits of MacOS.
Just HQPlayer NAA image to be installed and stream to the stick which is connected to the Spring 3 KTE via USB 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08V8VJF6L/

What I also just read is that any filter processing, especially using the before mentioned PCM upsampling settings is leading to a -3db volume decrease 🙄
So far I expected only such a decrease for playing DSD (there it's -6db) or applying PEQs.
 Using HQPlayer processing will therefore reduce the headroom of my Poweramp with Susvara - have to see how much - now questioning if KTE with preamp module is actually necessary for that scenario - for standard unprocessed listening I suppose to not get over 12 o'clock position on my Ferrum OOR based on the experience with my old DAC with 5.3V input


----------



## antdroid

Marutks said:


> I use Sinc-Mx.   How is it different from Sinc-L ?



Sinc-L is a longer filter at that sample rate... over 4 million taps vs Sinc-M/Mx which is 1 million taps. That's the technical difference.

My subjective impressions is that Sinc L is a bit beefier sounding. Sinc M is more agile and incisive. Both are nice, but I prefer L because sounds to me like a combination of additional warmth and incisiveness.

Since you have HQPlayer, you should try both and see which one you like more.


----------



## koso

soulrider4ever said:


> Understood - would love to see how the USB is vs. using the Gaia/Iris to the Spring 3 KTE over I2S.  If you ever get around to having time to play around with it - would love to get your impressions.


I was testing exactly these two setups. Hard to say which version sounds better. Direct to USB sounds little bit more forward, bit fuller bass, you can feel more energy. With Gaia to I2S sound is less forward, more airy, bass has a slightly smaller volume, but is more contoured, overall sound is calmer, more relaxed. It is difficult to exactly describe because the differences are small. Both sound great, and it's more about a personal preference for a particular sound I guess.

I am also testing another option. Ideon Audio 3R Master Time. It is top quality pure USB reclocker. Will post my findings later (as unit is new and needs some burn in time).


----------



## LarsNL

Just switched from a Audioquest Carbon USB to a Curious Cables USB, and the differences are very audible. Most noticeable is the much better bass control. Furthermore there is more "air" and holographic sound. Best cable upgrade so far. 
_(Setup: Wharfedale Elysian 2, Musical Fidelity NU600, Spring 3 KTE, Apple Mini M1 with Audirvana, Silent Angel Bonn N8 + SA F1 power supply, REL S/510 sub, IFI Power Station, Goldkabel Executive XLR, Supra XL Annorum speaker cables, Furutech PowerFlux power cables) _


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## FooFighter

LarsNL said:


> Just switched from a Audioquest Carbon USB to a Curious Cables USB, and the differences are very audible. Most noticeable is the much better bass control. Furthermore there is more "air" and holographic sound. Best cable upgrade so far.
> _(Setup: Wharfedale Elysian 2, Musical Fidelity NU600, Spring 3 KTE, Apple Mini M1 with Audirvana, Silent Angel Bonn N8 + SA F1 power supply, REL S/510 sub, IFI Power Station, Goldkabel Executive XLR, Supra XL Annorum speaker cables, Furutech PowerFlux power cables) _


You seem to have optimized nearly everything, even the network switch.
I see in your signature that you re using Audirvana.
Are you happy with the solution?
Doing any upsampling?
Apple M1 and Audirvana are limited to 768 khz without additional NAA just like using HQPlayer, right?


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## Bobji (Jan 6, 2022)

I am slowly being seduced. Savoring every second. Oh my!
Spring 3 KTE (new) + Benchmark AHB2 (newer)
ATC SCM7 v.3 or Revel M105
Ménage à trois


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## FooFighter

Finally Spring 3 connected and starting basic setup and burn-in before diving into the depth of Audirvana, HQPlayer


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## FooFighter (Jan 8, 2022)

just to be sure, is this the official firmware to be downloaded?
HoloAudio 5.00 Drivers + Firmware 2020 (same firmwares from 4.67 driver pack)
so, it seems there's no dedicated driver download link for Spring 3 KTE but the May firmware is the same also for the Spring 3 KTE.
Reading the description on the Kitsune page about the firmware following passage is listed here
https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-may-dac/
[...]
previous drivers: HoloAudio Drivers – Win7/8/8.1/10 – v.5.00 +all firmwares for all products multiDFU tools 2021-CLICK HERE (firmware tool is for pre August20/2021 dacs with Gen2.0 USB)

*note: May DAC DAC does NOT need firmware update in some cases. L2 May and KTE May come shipped with 30.14 firmware (pre aug2021) and Gen2.0 Enhanced USB Module. (compatibility firmware), *however if you need to use DSD1024 and PCM 1.536mhz* than you would need to install 30.12 firmware which is less compatible with some devices. However the 30.12 firmware does support high res content with Intel Gen7,Gen8,Gen9, Gen10 type Intel boards and many AMD comparable motherboards are incompatible with this firmware.
[...]

Can anyone using HQPlayer for upsampling to 1,5 Mhz using Spring 3 KTE confirm that they ve used this firmware and downgraded the prexisting firmware on their Spring 3 KTE?


----------



## 9bphillips

I am very interested in the spring 3 but what I need to know is what is the difference between level 1and 2 with preamp? What would I be losing in sound quality if I went with the level 1? Would it be worth the extra money for level 2 with preamp? Most of the reviews I see are all level 3 kte. I would love some information on level 1 and 2 with preamp if anyone could chime in with some experience.  Thanks!


----------



## Delta9K

If you desire the same Titanus USB module that is in the May DACs, that is only offered with the Spring 3 KTE - that is what I assume draws most to the the KTE otherwise I think the bang for buck might be with the Spring 3 level 2,  if you already have a high quality DDC,  or are also using either 12S,  AES/EBU  or COAX SPDIF as your primary input and not overly concerned with having the better USB module.


----------



## 9bphillips (Jan 8, 2022)

Delta9K said:


> If you desire the same Titanus USB module that is in the May DACs, that is only offered with the Spring 3 KTE - that is what I assume draws most to the the KTE otherwise I think the bang for buck might be with the Spring 3 level 2,  if you already have a high quality DDC,  or are also using either 12S,  AES/EBU  or COAX SPDIF as your primary input and not overly concerned with having the better USB module.


I guess my main goal would be to buy for the future. I want a dac that will stand the test of time. I am just starting out with my headphone collection.  I've been into iem's for a while. Right now I have a Burson Soloist 3xp as my Amp Amp I'm using my dx300 as the dac for now. I have lcd x and zmf verite closed headphones. I think next I'm going for the either a hifiman model or diana tc. The spring 3 just seems very premium and you don't see a lot of r2r dacs. To me it seems like something that could last your for years without being outdated. I would probably go with level 2 with pre amp. I like the price of level 1 with preamp better but if level 2 makes a  big enough difference then I will go with it.


----------



## FooFighter

9bphillips said:


> I guess my main goal would be to buy for the future. I want a dac that will stand the test of time. I am just starting out with my headphone collection.  I've been into iem's for a while. Right now I have a Burson Soloist 3xp as my Amp Amp I'm using my dx300 as the dac for now. I have lcd x and zmf verite closed headphones. I think next I'm going for the either a hifiman model or diana tc. The spring 3 just seems very premium and you don't see a lot of r2r dacs. To me it seems like something that could last your for years without being outdated. I would probably go with level 2 with pre amp. I like the price of level 1 with preamp better but if level 2 makes a  big enough difference then I will go with it.


You only need the preamp if you want to get some Poweramp without volume control later or if you will get an amp needing even more voltage as its own gain is too low.
The mentioned use case having a very good usb interface can be more relevant for you if you don't want to go through the hassle of dedicated DDCs as mentioned above.
You don't know such requirements yet from DAPs and don't need to know if you get a Holo Audio DAC with Titanis USB module.
So ihmo get either May L2 or Spring 3 KTE to be future proof


----------



## arnaud

FooFighter said:


> *note: May DAC DAC does NOT need firmware update in some cases. L2 May and KTE May come shipped with 30.14 firmware (pre aug2021) and Gen2.0 Enhanced USB Module. (compatibility firmware), *however if you need to use DSD1024 and PCM 1.536mhz* than you would need to install 30.12 firmware which is less compatible with some devices. However the 30.12 firmware does support high res content with Intel Gen7,Gen8,Gen9, Gen10 type Intel boards and many AMD comparable motherboards are incompatible with this firmware.
> [...]
> 
> Can anyone using HQPlayer for upsampling to 1,5 Mhz using Spring 3 KTE confirm that they ve used this firmware and downgraded the prexisting firmware on their Spring 3 KTE?



I‘ve tried both 30.12 and 30.14 firmware variants today on my L3 may dac (original usb module) but both capped at 705.6kHz when fed from HQP through usb from a recent M1 macbook pro. Wildism audio I purchased unit from mentioned the usb board update wouldn’t help as it’s specific to amd/intel chips so looks like the fancy apple and their fancy M1  chip just could not care less about high rate oversampling… 

Last try I need to make is a different usb cable but I’ve sort of given up already on the whole HQP based over-sampling fury and enjoying the bliss of NOS stress free playback .


----------



## FooFighter (Jan 9, 2022)

arnaud said:


> I‘ve tried both 30.12 and 30.14 firmware variants today on my L3 may dac (original usb module) but both capped at 705.6kHz when fed from HQP through usb from a recent M1 macbook pro. Wildism audio I purchased unit from mentioned the usb board update wouldn’t help as it’s specific to amd/intel chips so looks like the fancy apple and their fancy M1  chip just could not care less about high rate oversampling…
> 
> Last try I need to make is a different usb cable but I’ve sort of given up already on the whole HQP based over-sampling fury and enjoying the bliss of NOS stress free playback .


Thx.
Yep, I know.
I have an old i5 Macbook Pro, so I've yet tried the 1,5Mhz but seems that there's not enough performance as I am getting micro stuttering, noise from time to time.
I am looking for getting some new M1 this year once Apple is introducing the successor model with M2 chip.
As a hint for you as I've yet dived through endless threads: you can still use your M1 and get 1,5 MHz if you use a dedicated Intel CPU NAA.
These are the models which Miska, the developer of HQPlayer is suggesting:
- UP Gateway Atom x5-Z8350
- fitlet2RC Atom x7-E3950
You hook these via Ethernet to your network and via USB to your May and stream from your M1 over network to the  NAA


----------



## mudguardiain

9bphillips said:


> I guess my main goal would be to buy for the future. I want a dac that will stand the test of time. I am just starting out with my headphone collection.  I've been into iem's for a while. Right now I have a Burson Soloist 3xp as my Amp Amp I'm using my dx300 as the dac for now. I have lcd x and zmf verite closed headphones. I think next I'm going for the either a hifiman model or diana tc. The spring 3 just seems very premium and you don't see a lot of r2r dacs. To me it seems like something that could last your for years without being outdated. I would probably go with level 2 with pre amp. I like the price of level 1 with preamp better but if level 2 makes a  big enough difference then I will go with it.


I am using the Spring 3 KTE with my Burson Soloist 3X, could not be happier. The information regarding burn is mostly correct, it needs a lots of hours on the DAC to really shows it's stuff. It is good right from the off but mine is now reaching around 500 hours & is really improving further, becoming more holographic & transparent. If you are going to be using USB I would recommend the Level 3 as it has a better USB module, I believe this is one of the main reasons to get the Level 3. I feed my DAC with a Melco which seem to work very well but does not offer upscaling, which personally does not bother me, I prefer straight NOS. How does the Verite work on the Burson, I was interested in trying the Verite open?


----------



## ShangriLa

What is Kitsuni Hifi's return policy, no returns once the item is shipped and delivered?


----------



## joseph69

Terms and Conditions


----------



## 9bphillips

mudguardiain said:


> I am using the Spring 3 KTE with my Burson Soloist 3X, could not be happier. The information regarding burn is mostly correct, it needs a lots of hours on the DAC to really shows it's stuff. It is good right from the off but mine is now reaching around 500 hours & is really improving further, becoming more holographic & transparent. If you are going to be using USB I would recommend the Level 3 as it has a better USB module, I believe this is one of the main reasons to get the Level 3. I feed my DAC with a Melco which seem to work very well but does not offer upscaling, which personally does not bother me, I prefer straight NOS. How does the Verite work on the Burson, I was interested in trying the Verite open?


Do you have preamp on your spring 3? I would probably want the pre amp to run the soloist in power Amp mode. I much prefer the sound of the Soloist in power Amp mode. I eventually would like to have a streamer to use that USB. That is what a melco is? I briefly Google it because I had never heard of melco. As of right now I don't actually have the Verite in my possession. It is still being built. I will be able to give you an update hopefully at the end of the month or early February. It's been a long wait man! I am looking for any information I can find on all the different levels of the spring 3. I would love to have the level 3kte but I really want that preamp and I probably won't be able to swing the Level 3kte with pre amp. I am 95% convinced this is the dac I want though! As soon as I pay the Verite Closed off this will be my next purchase.  I need a desktop dac to complete my chain and then I am going to chill on the spending for a bit because I went overboard in 2021.lol


----------



## FooFighter

9bphillips said:


> Do you have preamp on your spring 3? I would probably want the pre amp to run the soloist in power Amp mode. I much prefer the sound of the Soloist in power Amp mode. I eventually would like to have a streamer to use that USB. That is what a melco is? I briefly Google it because I had never heard of melco. As of right now I don't actually have the Verite in my possession. It is still being built. I will be able to give you an update hopefully at the end of the month or early February. It's been a long wait man! I am looking for any information I can find on all the different levels of the spring 3. I would love to have the level 3kte but I really want that preamp and I probably won't be able to swing the Level 3kte with pre amp. I am 95% convinced this is the dac I want though! As soon as I pay the Verite Closed off this will be my next purchase.  I need a desktop dac to complete my chain and then I am going to chill on the spending for a bit because I went overboard in 2021.lol


Interesting that the Burson is sounding different in Poweramp mode.
Otherwise you could have saved lots of money skipping that preamp module and better invest into the Level 3.
You don't really need it technically unless 
- you have weak amps at the end of the chain and very demanding headphones like Susvara or TC.
I myself don't have the preamp though owning Susvara and TC and still have endless headroom using Ferrum OOR.
- you want to use the included remote control of Spring which is pretty useless without the preamp module


----------



## 9bphillips (Jan 10, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> Interesting that the Burson is sounding different in Poweramp mode.
> Otherwise you could have saved lots of money skipping that preamp module and better invest into the Level 3.
> You don't really need it technically unless
> - you have weak amps at the end of the chain and very demanding headphones like Susvara or TC.
> ...


When the Soloist is in power Amp mode it is only using 2 of the opamps. I'm assuming it's not using the volume opamps being that it is bypassing it. It gives the Soloist a more full and powerful sound with better dynamics.  Many ppl in the Soloist thread have discovered this same thing. I have introduced ppl to it and they were wowed when they heard it. They usually say, damn I've had the Soloist for however long and never knew about it. The Soloist has tons of power and sounds great in regular mode but it's just a little better in power Amp mode. This will be my 1st desktop dac so I don't 100% know if I will be ok with it and not use poweramp mode. The dac may provide the extra dynamics and fullness that power Amp mode brings. Idk . I'm just scared that I'll spend 3 grand on the 3kte and then wish I had power Amp mode. I could just save up the $600 because I will be making monthly payments.  I could just put that $600 on it and get ahead.


----------



## FooFighter

9bphillips said:


> When the Soloist is in power Amp mode it is only using 2 of the opamps. I'm assuming it's not using the volume opamps being that it is bypassing it. It gives the Soloist a more full and powerful sound with better dynamics.  Many ppl in the Soloist thread have discovered this same thing. I have introduced ppl to it and they were wowed when they heard it. They usually say, damn I've had the Soloist for however long and never knew about it. The Soloist has tons of power and sounds great in regular mode but it's just a little better in power Amp mode. This will be my 1st desktop dac so I don't 100% know if I will be ok with it and not use poweramp mode. The dac may provide the extra dynamics and fullness that power Amp mode brings. Idk . I'm just scared that I'll spend 3 grand on the 3kte and then wish I had power Amp mode. I could just save up the $600 because I will be making monthly payments.  I could just put that $600 on it and get ahead.


Fair enough.
For most people SQ is anyway the most important decision factor and before swapping the amp to e.g a Burson Grand Tourer the preamp option will make you more flexible, no question and AFAIK only Spring is offering that option.
For May you'd need an extra device like Serene...


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## 9bphillips (Jan 10, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> Fair enough.
> For most people SQ is anyway the most important decision factor and before swapping the amp to e.g a Burson Grand Tourer the preamp option will make you more flexible, no question and AFAIK only Spring is offering that option.
> For May you'd need an extra device like Serene...


I am pretty well set on Spring 3. The May is a little more than I would like to spend. I feel the spring 3 will be future proof like I talked about. I think the pre amp is something I should get. If I am going to spend 3 grand I might as well get exactly what I want. Besides I have heard the pre amp is very well made. One day I most definitely might move up to a Grand Tourer once I acquire headphones that demand that much power. Burson has definitely made me a fan. I am new at the headphone game. Like I said I've been into iem's and daps but I just started my headphone set up. I would like to scratch my itch and get what I want because if I don't I'll be spending more money later. I think the Spring 3 can be a dac I can be happy with for years. Also what is AFAIK? Sorry I'm new in the headphone world! Lol


----------



## MatW

9bphillips said:


> I am pretty well set on Spring 3. The May is a little more than I would like to spend. I feel the spring 3 will be future proof like I talked about. I think the pre amp is something I should get. If I am going to spend 3 grand I might as well get exactly what I want. Besides I have heard the pre amp is very well made. One day I most definitely might move up to a Grand Tourer once I acquire headphones that demand that much power. Burson has definitely made me a fan. I am new at the headphone game. Like I said I've been into iem's and daps but I just started my headphone set up. I would like to scratch my itch and get what I want because if I don't I'll be spending more money later. I think the Spring 3 can be a dac I can be happy with for years. Also what is AFAIK? Sorry I'm new in the headphone world! Lol


New to the internet? 😊 AFAIK = as far as I know.


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## 9bphillips

MatW said:


> New to the internet? 😊 AFAIK = as far as I know.


Nah just never heard that one! Lol


----------



## tdx

There is no streamer that can feed the Spring a 768k/1.5Mk signal from HQPlayer right? Only straight from a computer through USB?


----------



## FooFighter (Jan 10, 2022)

tdx said:


> There is no streamer that can feed the Spring a 768k/1.5Mk signal from HQPlayer right? Only straight from a computer through USB?


There are streamers / mini-PCs which you can boot with HQPlayer boot images.
These are called NAAs.
These 2 models are recommended by the HQPlayer developer Miska:
- UP Gateway Atom x5-Z8350
- fitlet2RC Atom x7-E3950

The usual "consumer" streamers are maxed out yet at 384khz (Zen Stream) or latest at 768khz (Sonore Rendu etc)

Don't forget though that these are just transports / endpoints to be connected to your DAC.
You need capable hardware for the HQPlayer core software to process 1,5Mhz filters without lagging.
My old Macbook Pro i5 2018 can do 768khz Mx filter and is lagging:distorting with anything above especially when being used for other stuff in parallel.
So a dedicated (headless) server e.g in your switch house room running HQPlayer Server (plus evt Roon Core) is recommended


----------



## tdx

FooFighter said:


> There are streamers / mini-PCs which you can boot with HQPlayer boot images.
> These are called NAAs.
> These 2 models are recommended by the HQPlayer developer Miska:
> - UP Gateway Atom x5-Z8350
> ...


Thanks so much. I have a pretty powerful NUC (Core I9/64GB RAM etc) to handle the upsampling so the two little PC boxes you're suggesting are just what i'm looking for!


----------



## FooFighter

tdx said:


> Thanks so much. I have a pretty powerful NUC (Core I9/64GB RAM etc) to handle the upsampling so the two little PC boxes you're suggesting are just what i'm looking for!


As a starting point the NUC i9 should be fine to run directly into the DAC too and should actually also support the 1,5Mhz DAC interface as it's Intel based.


----------



## tdx

FooFighter said:


> As a starting point the NUC i9 should be fine to run directly into the DAC too and should actually also support the 1,5Mhz DAC interface as it's Intel based.


Got it. Problem is it's in another room and running a super long USB cable from it to the DAC I'm afraid will degrade the SQ....


----------



## soulrider4ever

soulrider4ever said:


> Yeah man definitely! My local dealer is also going to have me demo the XI AUDIO Sagra DAC - so it will be a 3 way throwdown.  I can do a headphone comparison but my main use case is my 2.0 stereo setup (Pass Labs XA30.8 powering Magico A1 speakers) - so plenty of resolution



OK so my dealer was unable to acquire the Sagra dac.  However, my Spring 3 KTE w/ Preamp module arrived and I had the weekend to get my initial first impressions compared to my Spring 1 L2.

Auralic Aries streamer (with linear PSU) over AES > DAC > mPre > XA30.8 > Magico A1

I want to say the Spring 1 L2 was hands down one of the best DAC's I've had in my system beating Chord Qutest,MiniMax,Vega and others I can't think of currently in the $1k-$2k price range very convincingly.  I would wager if you find one used under $1.5k you struck a bargain.  I would say it's very possible depending on speakers/headphones (low-mid hifi things) that you would barely notice much of a difference between the Spring 1 and Spring 3, however with my Magico's it was a nice step up over the original spring.  These things just seem to have no limit for the detail and resolution they can provide.

The first thing that struck me even when the KTE was ice cold was the clarity increased a good 20-25% (hard to quantify lol) - but I knew right away my very first thought was, this sounds clearer.  Tonally they are very similar when using the same preamp (W4S mPRE) I had.  I wouldn't say there was a huge jump in sound stage or imaging, but just that things cleaned up and sounded that little bit closer to being there in the space with live music.

The real difference I noticed was when I removed the preamp from the equation and just used the KTE preamp.  Now I know my preamp was a 'weak' point at only $1100, but it's fully balanced and did a good job for the money spent.  I've never been one to justify spending a ton of money on preamps, they had a job - volume control.  This has me rethinking that 

I don't know if it was the implementation of the their preamp into the DAC, but let me tell you- this was the real game changer for me.

The music eased, relaxed, was more organic and natural sounding - the sound stage added height, depth and width.  Vocals just sounded that much more life like and real. I would say a slight thinning of the bass, but that bass is now more refined/accurate.. Now my bookshelfs despite being in a small room aren't the final say in bass, don't get me wrong they do a great enough job - but these aren't full range speakers to begin with.  

So despite my love for the Spring 1, this updated version 3 KTE just hits all the right notes for me and will be staying in my system for a long time.


----------



## anjocaido

Hi everyone

Proud new owner of the Holo Spring 3 KTE. Previous owner of a Chord Qutest. 
First impressions out of the box: 
 Fuller more richer Base
 More details and dynamics
 Wide sound stage

If it gets even better with break in i'm going to be very happy.


----------



## mudguardiain

anjocaido said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> Proud new owner of the Holo Spring 3 KTE. Previous owner of a Chord Qutest.
> First impressions out of the box:
> ...


It will get quite a bit better as it burns in, I have come from a Qutest & after over three weeks of burn in there is no comparison, a massive step up from the Qutest. Be patient & enjoy the evolving sound of the Spring, I am sure you will love it.


----------



## duranxv

The more my Spring 3 burns in, the more I'm convinced this is my endgame DAC

At least until Holo comes out with some revolutionary new DAC that blows the Spring and May away somehow, lol


----------



## ARCXENOS

Seems like everyone is going for the KTE variant, I am guessing the L1 and L2 variants aren't worth it? How big of a difference do y'all reckon it is


----------



## FooFighter

ARCXENOS said:


> Seems like everyone is going for the KTE variant, I am guessing the L1 and L2 variants aren't worth it? How big of a difference do y'all reckon it is


I've not listened to them myself but I ve heard about the difference between L2 and L3 being very subtle and the key reason is really the Titanis USB module.


----------



## davide256

ARCXENOS said:


> Seems like everyone is going for the KTE variant, I am guessing the L1 and L2 variants aren't worth it? How big of a difference do y'all reckon it is


A bit skeptical myself that any significant difference exists in an under $20K system if you are not using USB/prefer an external DDC. I suspect that most are buying the KTE 
version for the USB upgrade and ease of resale. I do wonder if its possible to upgrade the USB at a later date...


----------



## ARCXENOS (Jan 11, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> I've not listened to them myself but I ve heard about the difference between L2 and L3 being very subtle and the key reason is really the Titanis USB module.





davide256 said:


> A bit skeptical myself that any significant difference exists in an under $20K system if you are not using USB/prefer an external DDC. I suspect that most are buying the KTE
> version for the USB upgrade and ease of resale. I do wonder if its possible to upgrade the USB at a later date...



To be honest I can definitely see the reasoning of better resale value sticking

I guess the conundrum I am facing is that the Denafrips Iris I2S pinouts is not compatible with the Spring 3 haha, hopefully someone had the chance to demo both variants to educate me.

Maybe I am going insane from the iris, but I genuinely felt there was a difference between i2s and usb on my current DAC*


----------



## FooFighter

ARCXENOS said:


> To be honest I can definitely see the reasoning of better resale value sticking
> 
> I guess the conundrum I am facing is that the Denafrips Iris I2S pinouts is not compatible with the Spring 3 haha, hopefully someone had the chance to demo both variants to educate me.
> 
> Maybe I am going insane from the iris, but I genuinely felt there was a difference between i2s and usb on my current DAC*


Yep, that's actually the reasoning for i2s for "standard" DACs.
Reviews claim that there's no need for i2s when having the Titanis modules, so these sound equally good on May / S3 KTE.
Thus if you yet have (good PIN compatible) i2s go for S3 L2 and better invest in preamp etc, otherwise go for Titanis and skip i2s gear.


----------



## Marutks

ARCXENOS said:


> Maybe I am going insane from the iris, but I genuinely felt there was a difference between i2s and usb on my current DAC*



There is a big difference between I2S and USB for Spring 2.  No difference for Spring 3 KTE.
That's what I heard in one of reviews   🤷‍♂️


----------



## Bobji (Jan 11, 2022)

ARCXENOS said:


> Seems like everyone is going for the KTE variant, I am guessing the L1 and L2 variants aren't worth it? How big of a difference do y'all reckon it is


If I had not needed the pre amp, been curious of the Enhanced USB, and able to afford it I wouldn't have got the KTE variant and lived happily ever after.
I have seen the measurements of the base level.  Almost off the charts.
Lack of jitter in standard usb crazy impressive.
Even Holo says L1 best bang for buck. All the important excellent engineering is right there to start with.


----------



## kingoftown1

Idk about the differences sonically between 2 and 3, but I got the level 2 since I was already using an SU-6 w/ HDPlex lps (which I've been extremely happy with).  My thought was that as usb implementations improve, I can continue to just replace that portion.  

I also figured I would choose my own fuse for the dac, and recently put in an SR purple to good effect.  I have the same type of aucharm fuse that's used in the kte spring on order, but it'll end up going in the HDPlex.


----------



## mmwwmm

Anyone knows if is there a May 2 on the pipeline?


----------



## joseph69

mmwwmm said:


> Anyone knows if is there a May 2 on the pipeline?


It took a really long time from the first mention of the MAY to the actual release, so I don't see a new MAY in the near future. Although I don't own the MAY, what's reason you're interested in a second edition? Just curious being I've read this post 2 times on 2 different threads tonight.


----------



## mmwwmm

joseph69 said:


> what's reason you're interested in a second edition? Just curious being I've read this post 2 times on 2 different threads tonight.


Cause I’m interested in the May but i don’t want to buy a May now and have a new May 2 released in a few months.


----------



## Smallpie

Ill be waiting for a May 2 so I can buy a may when a bunch of people sell them to upgrade!


----------



## joseph69

mmwwmm said:


> Cause I’m interested in the May but i don’t want to buy a May now and have a new May 2 released in a few months.


When I purchased my Spring KTE in late '16 there was talk about the MAY between Tim (Kitsune Audio) & I back then, which is why I mentioned it took a really long time for its release so I wouldn't be concerned.


----------



## thecrow

May 2?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/holo-audio-may-dac-speculation.865892/page-29#post-16762805


----------



## ARCXENOS

I am planning to get a KTE unit,  but I foresee myself eventually needing a preamp (although now I am going to continue to use a headphone amp) for speaker power amps, is the extra preamp module for the spring 3 worth it, or am I better off buying a standalone unit?

Unfortunately for me I already sold off my Schiit Freya, so now I got another decision to make


----------



## BlakeT (Jan 15, 2022)

ARCXENOS said:


> I am planning to get a KTE unit,  but I foresee myself eventually needing a preamp (although now I am going to continue to use a headphone amp) for speaker power amps,* is the extra preamp module for the spring 3 worth it, or am I better off buying a standalone unit?*



I think the extra $600 is definitely worth it.  I don't currently have any separate solid state preamps in the ~$1,000 range but I suspect the module would compete rather well to solid state preamps in that range. 

In my tests the preamp module can certainly be beaten (subjectively in terms of sonics) with even higher end separate preamps costing several multiples of the price of the preamp module, but that should not be surprising.  You do pay dearly for small (but important) sonic gains, like most things in this wonderful hobby.


----------



## ARCXENOS (Jan 16, 2022)

BlakeT said:


> I think the extra $600 is definitely worth it.  I don't currently have any separate solid state preamps in the ~$1,000 range but I suspect the module would compete rather well to solid state preamps in that range.
> 
> In my tests the preamp module can certainly be beaten (subjectively in terms of sonics) with even higher end separate preamps costing several multiples of the price of the preamp module, but that should not be surprising.  You do pay dearly for small (but important) sonic gains, like most things in this wonderful hobby.



Thank you for your input, I did read that apparently the preamp module was trickle down from tech in their serene units so I believe it should be somewhat good

 I ended up ordering the preamp variant, and now I wait


----------



## Tubewin

kingoftown1 said:


> Idk about the differences sonically between 2 and 3, but I got the level 2 since I was already using an SU-6 w/ HDPlex lps (which I've been extremely happy with).  My thought was that as usb implementations improve, I can continue to just replace that portion.
> 
> I also figured I would choose my own fuse for the dac, and recently put in an SR purple to good effect.  I have the same type of aucharm fuse that's used in the kte spring on order, but it'll end up going in the HDPlex.


I wonder if it's the same direction for the Holo May as it is with the Spring. I purchased a SR purple as well and am a little confused about the direction the fuse should be in. I am guessing the S should be towards the bottom and the R towards the top.


----------



## FooFighter

For the burn in discussion.
AFAIK PCM and DSD are running through different circuits.
So will one need to burn in both separately?😉
Have been playing solely PCM at the beginning and just now switching to DSD upsampling


----------



## kingoftown1

Fwir the text/arrow should read from live->neutral, but ted denney said the people needs to be tried both ways to be sure.

@FooFighter how is dsd sounding?  Same as you, I've only really played pcm so far.


----------



## FooFighter (Jan 18, 2022)

kingoftown1 said:


> Fwir the text/arrow should read from live->neutral, but ted denney said the people needs to be tried both ways to be sure.
> 
> @FooFighter how is dsd sounding?  Same as you, I've only really played pcm so far.


I find it smoother and less into the face.
Am playing through HQPlayer and there's an own rabbit hole forum about such questions.
GoldenOne preferred PCM Sinc-L 1,5Mhz, Miska (HQPLAYER) DSD and both communities have their followers.
Clear is that PCM upsampling is way less hard on the CPU whereas you need more power for DSD upsampling.
My Mac Mini M1 is now getting warm with DSD and was bored with PCM Sinc-L 1,5Mhz  😉
There are various filters which my M1 cannot process and you'd need a powerful PC for that.
Am quite happy though with the filters I am using and potentially upgrade to follower devices like M2 based Mac Minis eventually later


----------



## kingoftown1

I've been doing sinc-L, LNS15 for the last few days, but can only go up to 384k with the SU-6.  I'll have to test out what my computer can handle with DSD, just got my fanless i5 10600 build set up last week, and it's been breezing through everything PCM-wise so far too.


----------



## tdx

Hi everyone, getting a Spring 3 KTE this week, so excited! Does anyone have any HQPlayer presets for PCM and/or DSD to recommend? Thanks!


----------



## kingoftown1

Has anyone considered making a shield for the dac module like the May KTE has?  Seems like it'd be pretty easy to make a less attractive bent-metal version out of a sheet of copper with a hacksaw, vise, and some standoffs for under $20


----------



## Marutks

tdx said:


> Hi everyone, getting a Spring 3 KTE this week, so excited! Does anyone have any HQPlayer presets for PCM and/or DSD to recommend? Thanks!


They are in description of this video


----------



## tdx

Marutks said:


> They are in description of this video



Thanks! Missed them somehow.


----------



## FooFighter

tdx said:


> Thanks! Missed them somehow.


Also try to make up your mind yourself.
I've tried endless combinations of filters riding on the hype of HQPlayer upscaling and was kind of shocked preferring straight Qobuz/  Roon / NOS through my IPAD to the Spring with Phi TC in regards of slam, impact and spice.
At least for uncompromised head banging...
For Susvara, vocals stuff I still need to make up my mind...


----------



## FooFighter

Anyone aware of some free Roon RAAT endpoint bootimage?
Am using an HQ Player NAA endpoint bootimage on a headless Intel Atom mini PC and would like to try dual boot for some A-B listening...


----------



## FooFighter (Jan 19, 2022)

Another rabbit hole...
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/option-to-replace-playback-engine-entirely-with-hqplayer/182473/22

anyone owning both Roon and HQPlayer with Qobuz are happily invited to do their own listening tests and tell me if they can also hear a difference.
But in all honesty it might be a matter of taste which signature sounds better.
For vocal focused tracks I might even give the Roon-HQPlayer combination thumps up for the less offensive presentation, for party mood the HQPlayer-direct solution.

As I am always inclined to get closest to the real thing I am now torn to either
a.) leave Roon, stay with HQPlayer setup and will miss the great comfort of Roon or
b.) go for some multi-purpose streamer supporting both worlds like IFI Zen Stream which is great for the money but technically a step down with max 3XX kHz compared to my current setup.


----------



## davide256

FooFighter said:


> Anyone aware of some free Roon RAAT endpoint bootimage?
> Am using an HQ Player NAA endpoint bootimage on a headless Intel Atom mini PC and would like to try dual boot for some A-B listening...


You can trial Euphony for 30 days, switching between Roonbridge, NAA, and Stylus endpoint for Roon output


----------



## davide256 (Jan 19, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> Another rabbit hole...
> https://community.roonlabs.com/t/option-to-replace-playback-engine-entirely-with-hqplayer/182473/22
> 
> anyone owning both Roon and HQPlayer with Qobuz are happily invited to do their own listening tests and tell me if they can also hear a difference.
> ...


Just curious, are you running Roon and HQPlayer on separate servers?


----------



## Marutks

FooFighter said:


> anyone owning both Roon and HQPlayer with Qobuz are happily invited to do their own listening tests and tell me if they can also hear a difference.



I can't hear no difference whatsoever.


----------



## FooFighter

davide256 said:


> You can trial Euphony for 30 days, switching between Roonbridge, NAA, and Stylus endpoint for Roon output


Thx, that's worth a trial.
So that Euphony software bootimage is substituting the HQPlayer bootimage  on the NAA endpoint device right?


----------



## FooFighter

davide256 said:


> Just curious, are you running Roon and HQPlayer on separate servers?


That's really the only optimization I haven't done yet.
Do you think that can matter for the described symptoms?
Can try it at the weekend


----------



## 9bphillips

I plan on buying the spring 3kte as my next purchase. In the meantime I have been selling of some iem's because I want to put that money towards my headphone  set up. One of the things I'm thinking of selling is my dx300 but I use it as my source and dac right now with my Soloist 3xp. I know usb is very highly regarded on the spring 3 so what would be a good suggestion for a source to replace the dx300 if I did sell it? Should I use my phone and a streamer instead. Any suggestions would be appreciated


----------



## FooFighter (Jan 20, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> I plan on buying the spring 3kte as my next purchase. In the meantime I have been selling of some iem's because I want to put that money towards my headphone  set up. One of the things I'm thinking of selling is my dx300 but I use it as my source and dac right now with my Soloist 3xp. I know usb is very highly regarded on the spring 3 so what would be a good suggestion for a source to replace the dx300 if I did sell it? Should I use my phone and a streamer instead. Any suggestions would be appreciated


You can follow many rabbit holes but Spring 3 is sounding fabulous right out of my IPhone / IPad playing Bitperfect and I d be perfectly happy with that as a starting point.
Haven't tried Android yet where I have made great experiences using UAPP in the past which brings dedicated exclusive DAC access plus Tidal / Quobuz...

Next affordable suggestion is Ifi Zen Stream (just arrived in my setup for testing), it's limited to 368khz PCM but if you can live with that it's sounding fabulous too out of the box plus having Tidal Connect, Spotify Connect, Roon support and HQPlayer support

These are plug and play solutions.

Afterwards you have a zoo of options like Raspberry PIs, Custom PCs, Mac Mini with player software or dedicated streamers starting at 500 bucks up to thousands of bucks.

Latter ones are not really needed with Spring imho


----------



## 9bphillips

FooFighter said:


> You can follow many rabbit holes but Spring 3 is sounding fabulous right out of my IPhone / IPad playing Bitperfect and I d be perfectly happy with that as a starting point.
> Haven't tried Android yet where I have made great experiences using UAPP in the past which brings dedicated exclusive DAC access plus Tidal / Quobuz...
> 
> Next affordable suggestion is Ifi Zen Stream (just arrived in my setup for testing), it's limited to 368khz PCM but if you can live with that it's sounding fabulous too out of the box plus having Tidal Connect, Spotify Connect, Roon support and HQPlayer support
> ...


I want whatever will give best sound quality. Honestly I'm sure my dx300 would do a great job too. I may just hold onto it until I figure out what option would work best for me. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## davide256

FooFighter said:


> That's really the only optimization I haven't done yet.
> Do you think that can matter for the described symptoms?
> Can try it at the weekend


I really want to like Roon, its very user friendly, network savvy, with a great GUI. But its output always took second place when I compared to Stylus with or without HQPlayer, recording depth of detail got more blurry. I am getting better results now closer to what I get with Stylus, using separate servers for Roon and HQPe, feeding an HQP NAA imaged machine.


----------



## FooFighter

Separate Roon didn't bring a discernable difference for me.
Playing directly out of HQPlayer vs Roon-HQPlayer is audible for me more than cable changes and more than many filter changes.
Have today received ifi Zen Stream and though it has less maximum PCM resolution I find it as good if not even better in terms of low end punch than my UPGateway Atom mini PC in NAA mode plus it can also work as Roon Endpoint if I like to.
Will test more over the weekend and then decide


----------



## Marutks (Jan 20, 2022)

This track doesn't sound any different from Roon -> HQPlayer


----------



## FooFighter

Marutks said:


> This track doesn't sound any different from Roon -> HQPlayer


Can only tell what I hear 😉
Roon itself is clear and punchy and more forward.
HQplayer alone is punchy clear and less forward and changing character with the different filters.
Roon plus HQPlayer has a light veil and hitting not as hard with my stack which is I think quite decent but everyone s hearing differently


----------



## Roasty

@FooFighter i also felt that Hqplayer alone sounded better than roon-hqplayer. but the Hqplayer user interface and lack of a phone app killed it for me. went back to Roon for the convenience, at the expense of the small sq difference.


----------



## FooFighter

All good.
It's actually also difficult to do serious A/B without an unbiased blind test 
Will need to wrap my ears on the different filters in HQPlayer.
That's really a playground.
While I wanted to give ifi zen stream a chance I think I cannot miss the possibilities of the Intel Atom NAA allowing me to play DSD 1024 or PCM 1,5Mhz - crazy stuff.
Nevertheless I also think that straight NOS is a wonderful option too with the Spring with even only an IPad in front but that's one of the many facettes in this hobby for me  - experimenting 😉


----------



## 9bphillips

Could I use the ibasso dx300 as my source with the Holy Spring 3kte? The dx300 has a 4.4mm pentaconn line out.


----------



## FooFighter (Jan 20, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> Could I use the ibasso dx300 as my source with the Holy Spring 3kte? The dx300 has a 4.4mm pentaconn line out.


Spring is a DAC, DX300 is a DAP.
You can use DX300 as a source by plugging Spring into its USB port, the same way you'd use your Android phone.
Still there can be sonic differences playing from a decent DAC as I experienced once using Shanling M8 as a source though with different targets as I didn't own Spring those days ago.
So you will need to plug your headphones into your burson amp and your burson amp into the output ports of the Spring DAC


----------



## 9bphillips

FooFighter said:


> Spring is a DAC, DX300 is a DAP.
> You can use DX300 as a source by plugging Spring into its USB port, the same way you'd use your Android phone.
> Still there can be sonic differences playing from a decent DAC as I experienced once using Shanling M8 as a source.
> So you will need to plug your headphones into your burson amp and your burson amp into the output ports of the Spring DAC


Ok cool. I didn't know if they made usb to 4.4mm.


----------



## FooFighter

9bphillips said:


> Ok cool. I didn't know if they made usb to 4.4mm.


USB is pure digital transport.
4.4mm is pure analogue.
These will never ever fit


----------



## MatW

9bphillips said:


> Ok cool. I didn't know if they made usb to 4.4mm.


To add to @FooFighter, you want to feed the Spring digital so it can do the digital to analog (DAC) conversion. So USB C (DX300) to USB B (Spring). But I am not sure of the benefit of using a DX300 over an Ipad or Iphone as a digital transport.


----------



## Clemmaster

MatW said:


> To add to @FooFighter, you want to feed the Spring digital so it can do the digital to analog (DAC) conversion. So USB C (DX300) to USB B (Spring). But I am not sure of the benefit of using a DX300 over an Ipad or Iphone as a digital transport.


The software. Not necessarily for SQ (although it might), but for the music app and OS specifically designed for music.
Since he already has the DX300 with music on it, he might as well use it.


----------



## FooFighter

Clemmaster said:


> The software. Not necessarily for SQ (although it might), but for the music app and OS specifically designed for music.
> Since he already has the DX300 with music on it, he might as well use it.


Didn't want to dive into it but I've once tested different sources like IPhone, Android phone and DAP (Shanling M8) into attached dongles (L&P W2).
And though some might think it should sound identical if sent from same source app like Tidal, Amazon Music HD they all sounded different and I found the DAP (in my case Shanling M8) to have the edge over the less audiophile sources


----------



## 9bphillips

FooFighter said:


> Didn't want to dive into it but I've once tested different sources like IPhone, Android phone and DAP (Shanling M8) into attached dongles (L&P W2).
> And though some might think it should sound identical if sent from same source app like Tidal, Amazon Music HD they all sounded different and I found the DAP (in my case Shanling M8) to have the edge over the less audiophile sources


I would think a nice dap like the dx300 would be better than a laptop or something,considering the dx300 was built specifically for music.


----------



## FooFighter

9bphillips said:


> I would think a nice dap like the dx300 would be better than a laptop or something,considering the dx300 was built specifically for music.


Let's say a higher end DAP is optimized for all-in-one playback whereas for a desktop setup you need to seek dedicated devices hooked together with expensive cables.
For the DAC interface you'd need a Streamer usually in a desktop setup which is managed via some remote playback interface.
If you want to keep your DAP also for flexibility, going out /,traveling using IEMs and hooking up to your stationary DAC once at home, there's nothing wrong with that.


----------



## 9bphillips

FooFighter said:


> Let's say a higher end DAP is optimized for all-in-one playback whereas for a desktop setup you need to seek dedicated devices hooked together with expensive cables.
> For the DAC interface you'd need a Streamer usually in a desktop setup which is managed via some remote playback interface.
> If you want to keep your DAP also for flexibility, going out /,traveling using IEMs and hooking up to your stationary DAC once at home, there's nothing wrong with that.


That kinda was my plan but I'm getting a little tired of carrying my dx300 in my back pocket at work. I'm also scared of it messing up while working. I was thinking of maybe buying the cayin Ru6 r2r dongle. I don't have to have outstanding sound at work but I do enjoy having it sound really great like like dx300 provides. I figured a nice dingle would get me somewhere close. I was thinking of selling my dx300 and my ie900 iem' and put it towards buying something towards my headphones set up. If I did that I could use my phone usb with spring 3 until I get a streamer.  I eventually want to get to a high end streamer that will sound best with my desktop set up.


----------



## FooFighter

9bphillips said:


> That kinda was my plan but I'm getting a little tired of carrying my dx300 in my back pocket at work. I'm also scared of it messing up while working. I was thinking of maybe buying the cayin Ru6 r2r dongle. I don't have to have outstanding sound at work but I do enjoy having it sound really great like like dx300 provides. I figured a nice dingle would get me somewhere close. I was thinking of selling my dx300 and my ie900 iem' and put it towards buying something towards my headphones set up. If I did that I could use my phone usb with spring 3 until I get a streamer.  I eventually want to get to a high end streamer that will sound best with my desktop set up.


I went a similar path and practically sold all my mobile stuff in order to settle down on stationary gear - not so much traveling anymore in Corona times.
Whereas there are enough people also enjoying their IEMs even on stationary gear.


----------



## 9bphillips (Jan 21, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> I went a similar path and practically sold all my mobile stuff in order to settle down on stationary gear - not so much traveling anymore in Corona times.
> Whereas there are enough people also enjoying their IEMs even on stationary gear.


Once I bought the Soloist 3xp it was over! I went from listening to my lcd x every now and again to all the time! Lol. All I heard was how easy the lcd x were to drive and how the dx300 amp 12 would be plenty. They didn't tell the whole story because a desktop Amp made a huge difference. I run machinery that makes all the boxes for chick filet, Publix, bojangles, and lots of other grocery stores and fast food restaurants so I'm usually running around stopping and starting the music so I don't have to have a dap. I think a dongle and my Mest mk2 may be what I end up with and invest that money In my headphone set up. I have a Verite Closed that should be coming to me soon too. Headphones are much more fun and engaging to listen too. I'm sold on the headphone world for sure once hearing what a headphone can actually do with a good amp!


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## FooFighter (Jan 21, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> That kinda was my plan but I'm getting a little tired of carrying my dx300 in my back pocket at work. I'm also scared of it messing up while working. I was thinking of maybe buying the cayin Ru6 r2r dongle. I don't have to have outstanding sound at work but I do enjoy having it sound really great like like dx300 provides. I figured a nice dingle would get me somewhere close. I was thinking of selling my dx300 and my ie900 iem' and put it towards buying something towards my headphones set up. If I did that I could use my phone usb with spring 3 until I get a streamer.  I eventually want to get to a high end streamer that will sound best with my desktop set up.


Very good choice.
MEST MKII is actually the IEM I am missing most for my music taste after selling it.
That's rather a taste / philosophical discussion - I was about to give up the rabbit whole after getting Traillii last year but then needed money to fund the stationary gear.
There are reasons going for IEMs and reasons going for headphones besides the driving / mobility requirements like micro vs macro dynamics and spatial presentation making one prefer one or another or keeping both.
L&P W2 was nice with the MEST MKII as far as I remember.
Haven't tried dongles since mid of last year afterwards.


----------



## 9bphillips

FooFighter said:


> Very good choice.
> MEST MKII is actually the IEM I am missing most for my music taste after selling it.
> That's rather a taste / philosophical discussion - I was about to give up the rabbit whole after getting Traillii last year but then needed money to fund the stationary gear.
> There are reasons going for IEMs and reasons going for headphones besides the driving / mobility requirements like micro vs macro dynamics and spatial presentation making one prefer one or another or keeping both


I couldn't agree more when you were talking about the reasons for going for headphones over iem's besides being on the go.  I love both my ie900 and Mest mk2 but after the new wore off and I got used to both I think the Mest is the one I want to keep. I do love the ie900 but the Mest just has a little more to offer for what I like. I find myself wearing my Noble Falcon Pro a lot at work too because I listen to reviews on you tube, they are lightweight,  and easy to pause and play. I have those and will probably keep Mest mk2. Its going to be hard to let go of my dx300 but I am really considering it because I am going to be needing money for payments on Spring 3 and I would like to try out tubes one day too!


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## FooFighter (Jan 22, 2022)

Hi folks

I actually wanted to test Euphony Stylus over the weekend but unfortunately my MacBook Pro i5 and Mac mini M1 aren't supported.

So I experimented with the Ifi Zen Stream I am demoing currently.
It's working flawlessly in USB mode out of Roon, HQPlayer and Tidal-Connect.
But...once I select SPDIF COAX1 I am getting endless (re-)locking times.
Initial locking takes around 20 seconds!
Relocking between songs with different sample rates takes between 3 to 5 seconds, regardless of the playback source.
That means the music is continuing playing but I am hearing nothing until Spring is locked again.

Anyone tried SPDIF and observed something similar or is this related to the Ifi Zen Stream only?
I don't have another source for non-USB playback around unfortunately right now.

I actually expected the Titanic USB module to be superior in terms of SQ but haven't expected such technical issues using another input method...


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## Delta9K (Jan 22, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> Anyone tried SPDIF and observed something similar or is this related to the Ifi Zen Stream only?


Yes, I touched on this within the first few days of ownership when my Spring 3 arrived, posts #2359, #2399, #2420, #2423.

TL;DR
Disable PLL locking or, if you have the ability to set a delay in your software player, do that. In roon I needed to set it to 4000ms.
This is why I decided to ditch my DDC and using either i2s or AES/EBU and just go with USB since I had the KTE with Titanus USB module anyway. Using just the USB input allows me to leave the PLL enabled and have no delays. Though bummed I could not utilize i2s, I was happy to eliminate some gear out of the signal path since SQ to me was as good as I was getting from i2s and AES (as best I can tell), but it does limit the number of sources I can connect to the DAC if I want to leave the PLL on.

It might be worth an email to support to ask for clarification. I wouldn't want to lead anyone the wrong direction if I have misinterpreted what I was told.


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## FooFighter (Jan 23, 2022)

Delta9K said:


> Yes, I touched on this within the first few days of ownership when my Spring 3 arrived, posts #2359, #2399, #2420, #2423.
> 
> TL;DR
> Disable PLL locking or, if you have the ability to set a delay in your software player, do that. In roon I needed to set it to 4000ms.
> ...


Thx mate.
I remember now that I read your posts once but forgot afterwards.
I haven't even thought about multiple sources before diving into the HQPlayer rabbit whole where I am now captured playing through one NAA and  needing to unplug and replug the USB cable to different sources.
That's why I thought about using other inputs to work around it.
Have to confess that I am thinking about downgrading my stack again and send my NAA back within the return window and directly wire my Mac Mini to the Spring so I can run any source I want from there into the Spring like non-upsampled Roon, locally installed Qobuz  or the HQPlayer.
Though there might be audiophile advantages for separating source and player I am questioning the loss of flexibility.

Edit: turned off PLL this morning and indeed the locking is now instant with Zen Stream - guess I will give this setup a try for now so I can instantly switch between HQPlayer for NAA and Direct Roon.


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## FooFighter (Jan 22, 2022)

I am even going a step further and claiming that  for my own listening enjoyment I perceive the different sources like Roon native vs HQPlayer vs Qobuz, Amazon Music HD or Apple Music not as better or worse but as different presentations of the music which I d like to switch depending on headphone, mood and music mastering.
So e.g whereas I find Roon native sometimes a tad too forward and shouty with some tracks and therefore went for HQPlayer as my main default, there are times and tracks where I want exactly that presentation for example when listening to party / head banging music with my Phi TC.
I am not getting that flexibility needing to replug my USB cable the whole time.
Might look into the Euphony Stylus one day as it seems to combine flexibility and audiophile purism but will need different hardware for that


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## rocky500 (Jan 23, 2022)

kingoftown1 said:


> Has anyone considered making a shield for the dac module like the May KTE has?  Seems like it'd be pretty easy to make a less attractive bent-metal version out of a sheet of copper with a hacksaw, vise, and some standoffs for under $20


You could try those 3M sheets for shielding maybe. They are sticky on one side. You could cut to size & stick it on the case lid above the area you intended.
Something like this
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/265303245884?epid=17049091910&hash=item3dc54e443c:g:ddEAAOSwi91hMTU7

I think 3M make many different types too depending of the type of shielding you are after.
Another here
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/333215204794?epid=17049091910&hash=item4d952c85ba:g:gZUAAOSwHodc7tOL


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## kingoftown1 (Jan 23, 2022)

@rocky500 I've had a lot of success using 3M's AB7050HF on digital components lately.  I thought this would be a fun weekend project in addition to that--
I actually just finished.  Can't say my metalworking is my strong suit but it's not like anyone sees it after the case is closed.  It's sitting on 10mm risers and extends down slightly below the dac pcb, with 1-2mm clearance on each side.  I lined the sides of the shield with kapton tape just to be overly safe.


----------



## ARCXENOS

Finally arrived, first impressions after a few hours is, WOW the spring 3 sounds so good compared to my old ares2 / iris + pegasus setup.

I could not believe how big of a difference it made (subjectively   of course).

The instrument separation was so clear, I don't know how to describe it. To be honest I was one of those that didn't think a DAC would make this big of a difference before, but I am sure glad I was tempted to get it.

Now I am thinking of waiting for the Bliss for sure.


----------



## Marutks

Is there any information about the Bliss amplifier?  solid state? 
Does it have the same size as Spring 3?


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## mudguardiain

ARCXENOS said:


> Finally arrived, first impressions after a few hours is, WOW the spring 3 sounds so good compared to my old ares2 / iris + pegasus setup.
> 
> I could not believe how big of a difference it made (subjectively   of course).
> 
> ...


Just wait for the burn in process to occur, it will keep getting better over quite a long period, I had mine for several weeks & I am still hearing improvements.


----------



## ARCXENOS

Marutks said:


> Is there any information about the Bliss amplifier?  solid state?
> Does it have the same size as Spring 3?


I asked the Hong Kong distributor, they said they have no info as of now (or they don't want to reveal details).

I think it might be worth it for me to wait for details instead of jumping into an AHB-2 now



mudguardiain said:


> Just wait for the burn in process to occur, it will keep getting better over quite a long period, I had mine for several weeks & I am still hearing improvements.


Will leaving it on standby will do, or is it just left on?


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## tdx

If you guys are interested: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tot...ing-3-wavelight-ferrum-oor-enleum-23r.961835/


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## fenom60 (Jan 27, 2022)

Hi Guys, I just bought the Spring 3 KTE through the Hong Kong Distributor Wildism Audio, it will be shipped tomorrow. I have a question about front end connection. What is the best way to connect PC to Spring 3 KTE? The distributor said it would sound best through I2S connection or AES connection with more musicality. Should I get a dedicated music streamer/ server instead of running PC USB to Spring 3 KTE? I only used entry level stuff without any of the I2S and AES connection, I have no clue how to get the best out of the Spring 3 KTE. Any suggestions would be very helpful, thanks alot guys.


----------



## FooFighter

fenom60 said:


> Hi Guys, I just bought the Spring 3 KTE through the Hong Kong Distributor Wildism Audio, I will be shipped tomorrow. I have a question about front end connection. What is the best way to connect PC to Spring 3 KTE? The distributor said it would sound best through I2S connection or AES connection with more musicality. Should I get a dedicated music streamer/ server instead of running PC USB to Spring 3 KTE? I only used entry level stuff without any of the I2S and AES connection, I have no clue how to get the best out of the Spring 3 KTE. Any suggestions would be very helpful, thanks alot guys.


Most reviews confirm that S3 KTE sounds equal if not better through Titanis USB module!
You're absolutely fine starting to play out of e.g some IPad Bitperfect NOS without sound degredation.
Dedicated endpoints are either for the last centimeters of blackness with dedicated PSUs etc.
Your PC is useful for upsampling using apps like Audirvana, Roon and HQPlayer and you can start connecting Spring directly and later look into the rabbit holes of dedicated endpoints


----------



## fenom60

FooFighter said:


> Most reviews confirm that S3 KTE sounds equal if not better through Titanis USB module!
> You're absolutely fine starting to play out of e.g some IPad Bitperfect NOS without sound degredation.
> Dedicated endpoints are either for the last centimeters of blackness with dedicated PSUs etc.
> Your PC is useful for upsampling using apps like Audirvana, Roon and HQPlayer and you can start connecting Spring directly and later look into the rabbit holes of dedicated endpoints



Thank you very much, that is what I thought before buying the Spring. I thought it would sound best through the USB Titanis module according to reviews. I only used Foobar2000 or Tidal Master currently, I will look into playing with HQplayer and Roon when the Spring arrives.


----------



## koso

fenom60 said:


> Hi Guys, I just bought the Spring 3 KTE through the Hong Kong Distributor Wildism Audio, it will be shipped tomorrow. I have a question about front end connection. What is the best way to connect PC to Spring 3 KTE? The distributor said it would sound best through I2S connection or AES connection with more musicality. Should I get a dedicated music streamer/ server instead of running PC USB to Spring 3 KTE? I only used entry level stuff without any of the I2S and AES connection, I have no clue how to get the best out of the Spring 3 KTE. Any suggestions would be very helpful, thanks alot guys.


USB connection is perfectly fine. Better or at least on par with I2S. No worries, USB module in KTE is great.


----------



## mudguardiain

koso said:


> USB connection is perfectly fine. Better or at least on par with I2S. No worries, USB module in KTE is great.


I use USB on mine fed from my Melco & it sound insane, some much sound & energy, not fatiguing but very intense, especially live recordings, it's like have the venue stopped to be head vie my headphones, so much different to anything I have experienced before & so realistic. The Melco does not allow for upsampling but I honestly don't feel the need to try it at the moment, don't feel I am missing anything & certainly the Melco is a significant step from playing direct from my MacBook.


----------



## davide256

fenom60 said:


> Hi Guys, I just bought the Spring 3 KTE through the Hong Kong Distributor Wildism Audio, it will be shipped tomorrow. I have a question about front end connection. What is the best way to connect PC to Spring 3 KTE? The distributor said it would sound best through I2S connection or AES connection with more musicality. Should I get a dedicated music streamer/ server instead of running PC USB to Spring 3 KTE? I only used entry level stuff without any of the I2S and AES connection, I have no clue how to get the best out of the Spring 3 KTE. Any suggestions would be very helpful, thanks alot guys.


Have been playing around with different devices for the past  7 years
1) PC USB out is compromised for audio via USB, too many "least cost bidder" components. Mac is built to a higher standard, which is why they are common at
audio show demos. But don't expect "you are there" level of playback
2) NUC's can make a good inexpensive streamer/server if you use an LPS with the USB out server, can use HQPlayer  or Stylus for fairly good results. Dedicated
   hobbyists are able to "hotrod" for even better results or build their own using carefully selected components.
3) the best results start leaning into audiophile streamer/server manufacturers like Innuos, Aurender and Lumin. And there are extreme servers like the $20K Taiko


----------



## fenom60

FooFighter said:


> Most reviews confirm that S3 KTE sounds equal if not better through Titanis USB module!
> You're absolutely fine starting to play out of e.g some IPad Bitperfect NOS without sound degredation.
> Dedicated endpoints are either for the last centimeters of blackness with dedicated PSUs etc.
> Your PC is useful for upsampling using apps like Audirvana, Roon and HQPlayer and you can start connecting Spring directly and later look into the rabbit holes of dedicated endpoints



Thanks for your reply FooFighter, I see that you are using an ifi zen stream in your setup. How does it sound? I am very interested in getting that and hook up a SSD for my music and streaming needs instead of running input from my gaming Pc straight to Spring 3 KTE (too much fan noise and other distractions from my pc) . Is there a difference between Spdif vs USB in to Spring 3 ?  Thanks.

Would love to buy the dedicated music servers as other members suggested like Aurender and Melco but I would really like to keep my stack as small as possible as i am already stretching with the big Spring 3.


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## FooFighter (Jan 28, 2022)

fenom60 said:


> Thanks for your reply FooFighter, I see that you are using an ifi zen stream in your setup. How does it sound? I am very interested in getting that and hook up a SSD for my music and streaming needs instead of running input from my gaming Pc straight to Spring 3 KTE (too much fan noise and other distractions from my pc) . Is there a difference between Spdif vs USB in to Spring 3 ?  Thanks.
> 
> Would love to buy the dedicated music servers as other members suggested like Aurender and Melco but I would really like to keep my stack as small as possible as i am already stretching with the big Spring 3.


Sorry, was too busy up to now.
So the Zen Stream is one of the best sounding streamers up to 1k bucks potentially with the IFI built-in purifier technology if you pair it with a decent PSU.
Am using an IFI iPowerX for around hundred bucks which is told to bring it to let's say 95% of what more expensive PSUs are squeezing out of it.
So all in all 500 bucks for a device competing with <= 1k bucks streaming solutions giving its out-of-the-box features of Tidal-connect, Spotify-Connect, UPNP, Roon, HQPlayer NAA support and dedicated service modes to run only one of these mentioned services to not influence each other.
There are still instability issues reported in the Zen Stream thread but I have to say for myself paired with the Spring 3 it's rather solid especially if you decide to run in a single purpose mode like only UPNP or only Roon.
The sample rates are restricted to "only" 32/386 khz in USB mode and 24/192kHz in COAX mode which is enough for NOS without additional upsampling and it's sounding very very good with good low end punch and background blackness with no audible noise, jitter.
I am running it in SPDIF mode for playing NOS out of Roon or sometimes Qobuz through MCONNECT, also tried TIDAL-connect and it is playing the one time unfolded FLAC very well.
Master recordings are sounding superb with Spring 3.
My Spring-3 USB port is shared between IPad Bitperfect playback of Apple Music  and alternatively my HQPlayer NAA endpoint streaming upsampled PCM up to 1,5Mhz.
I am cycling between all these sources depending on my mood, music mix, headphone.

If I had to start with only one streamer with small budget I d start with the Zen Stream over similarly priced solutions like Bluesound Node N130 (which has a way better managing interface though)

If you do have a spare IPad I'd say that's a decent starting solution too as it has low noise running out of its battery, it's playing Bitperfect out of hires streaming sources and your own hires library and is even superior to MacOS in that regards which isn't able to play Bitperfect with adaptive bitrates.
On top it is working as a Roon Endpoint and thereby functions as a Streamer for my library on hard disk attached to my central Mac Mini as well as Tidal or Qobuz through Roon.
Theoretically the WiFi on IPAD can be a source for noise (where Zen Stream can do WiFi too but should better be run through wired Ethernet) but I haven't heard any noise during my listening sessions using my IPad so far either.

Regarding local library it should work being attached to the Zen Stream.

I'd actually recommend though a more decent central solution managing your local library and streaming sources like Roon or Audirvana as it's way more comfortable and reliable.
You could also just share your library on your PC and stream it using UPNP to the Zen Stream  using software like Mconnect etc.


----------



## bluenight

Hi.
Is this an uppgrade over hugo2/qutest dac?

And is there an big diffrence between level 2 and KTE? Is it worth that difference. Level 2 was reviewed as best buy. 

How many steps does the preamp volume has?


----------



## davide256

bluenight said:


> Hi.
> Is this an uppgrade over hugo2/qutest dac?
> 
> And is there an big diffrence between level 2 and KTE? Is it worth that difference. Level 2 was reviewed as best buy.
> ...


It will be different at least. Chord is very clean for separating instrument lines but somewhat muted passion with tone color. NOS DAC's excel at tone color/timbre.
Unless you dislike the Hugo 2, you have a less expensive upgrade path by adding an Audiowise SRC-DX DDC plus mini dual BNC adaptor (Moon Audio) to
bypass the weaknesses of its USB input circuit.


----------



## bluenight (Jan 29, 2022)

davide256 said:


> It will be different at least. Chord is very clean for separating instrument lines but somewhat muted passion with tone color. NOS DAC's excel at tone color/timbre.
> Unless you dislike the Hugo 2, you have a less expensive upgrade path by adding an Audiowise SRC-DX DDC plus mini dual BNC adaptor (Moon Audio) to
> bypass the weaknesses of its USB input circuit.


I have never used usb only toslink and optical. I dislike hugo2 rca output. I cant use my best cables, to thick to fit the sockets. I want to move away from that. The best thing is the remote with volume control. The sound is very good to imo but can be bright/harsh at times maybe spring is smoother with less listening fatigue on higher volume? 

Sometimes i wonder if usb might be the best cable because it always seem to suport the highest sample rates pcm and dsd. But i read it can depend on the specific product on what's the best connection.


----------



## ARCXENOS

bluenight said:


> And is there an big diffrence between level 2 and KTE? Is it worth that difference. Level 2 was reviewed as best buy.
> 
> How many steps does the preamp volume has?



Didn't try Chord's stuff, so I can't comment about it

Also didn't try the L2, but from what I asked from owners and summarized from this thread, KTE can just skip DDCs, which IMO after a few days with it, seems to be true vs my time with the Denafrips Iris + Musician Pegasus I2S setup. L2 can possibly skip it too, but my personal reasoning for going with the KTE was, I planned to keep my Spring 3 for years, so I'd just go with the doubt-free option instead of asking what if.

According to Wildism (the HK distributor), the preamp module is :


> A fully balanced, fully discrete analog pre-amplifier. Provides 84 steps, each step is 1db of volume control.



From the display, what I see is it goes from 16 to 100 (or specifically, how it displays it is as "MIN", 17 to 99, "MAX")

Just in case you are particular about these things


----------



## bluenight

ARCXENOS said:


> Also didn't try the L2, but from what I asked from owners and summarized from this thread, KTE can just skip DDCs, which IMO after a few days with it, seems to be true vs my time with the Denafrips Iris + Musician Pegasus I2S setup. L2 can possibly skip it too


It seems to me just usb connection is improved. I haven't used usb connection before. So maybe i just can use the other connections instead with great results.


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## FooFighter

bluenight said:


> It seems to me just usb connection is improved. I haven't used usb connection before. So maybe i just can use the other connections instead with great results.


You can go to the product page and look for the differences in the KTE model.
It's more than just the USB module.
The question really is how much of that is really audible for you or "just" makes you psychologically feel better 😉
If you are having yet a nice I2S setup I think you can use that without SQ compromises and save some money


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## davide256

ARCXENOS said:


> Didn't try Chord's stuff, so I can't comment about it
> 
> Also didn't try the L2, but from what I asked from owners and summarized from this thread, KTE can just skip DDCs, which IMO after a few days with it, seems to be true vs my time with the Denafrips Iris + Musician Pegasus I2S setup. L2 can possibly skip it too, but my personal reasoning for going with the KTE was, I planned to keep my Spring 3 for years, so I'd just go with the doubt-free option instead of asking what if.
> 
> ...


I tried the Iris... its a worthwhile bandaid for Denafrips DAC built in USB (Pegasus is a Denafrips knockoff) and other DAC's with weak USB input... but it wasn't a keeper for me.
Whereas the SRC-DX has me questioning whether  I would ever go direct USB to DAC again, find up-sampled files inferior to native rate with an older NOS dac.


----------



## fenom60

Received my Spring 3 KTE today, all I can say is it blew away all my expectations, its like going from 720p to 4k! Wow! Sounds amazing straight PC -> USB -> Spring 3.


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## mmwwmm

Are the Spring and May 230v or only 220v?


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## fenom60 (Feb 3, 2022)

mmwwmm said:


> Are the Spring and May 230v or only 220v?



According to the kitsunehifi.com in the Holo Spring 3 listing Specs

Power Specifications:


Power Input (configurable, see label on bottom of unit for specified input）220-230V 50/60Hz – Fuse Type 2A SB 5x20mm110-115V 50/60Hz – Fuse Type 4A SB 5x20mmPower Consumption40W

the Holo Spring 3 works at 220-230V 50/60hz and 110-115v 50/60hz according to the specs. In Hong Kong we use 220V 50hz, depends where you are from, you can look up your electrical specs and see if its compatible? I am sure it works for most countries, you would probably need a power cable (didn't come with one for me) or adaptor plug.


----------



## ShangriLa

a very positive comparison of the Spring 3.


----------



## ShangriLa

Also, just noticed this comment from GoldenSound's Spring 3 review description: 

"_The Holo Spring 3 is a truly fantastic DAC punching above its pricepoint, and with some unique features that make it an extremely compelling choice. I can comfortably say I've not heard a DAC this good anywhere close to this pricepoint." _


----------



## dwong

Does anyone know if one can bypass the internal preamp module in the Spring 3 if one chooses to use an external preamp?


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## koso (Mar 5, 2022)

dwong said:


> Does anyone know if one can bypass the internal preamp module in the Spring 3 if one chooses to use an external preamp?


There is no “bypass” function per se inside Spring 3 settings. However you can simply set volume to max which could do the same job. There is allegedly no degrading on sound quality. Even if this was true, it would be nice to have bypass settings there in my opinion...


----------



## ARCXENOS

koso said:


> There is no “bypass” function per se inside Spring 3 settings. However you can simply set volume to max which could do the same job. There is allegedly no degrading on sound quality. Even if this was true, it would be nice to have bypass settings there in my opinion...



This is all true to my experience too, I am currently using my kte's preamp into headphone amps, and I could not hear any extra noise when left idle, at least to my ears.

I definitely agree that having a bypass would be a really nice feature to have. I have been thinking about getting Cayin's HA-300b, but I am left guessing if there is a possibility in signal degradation (vs just a pure DAC).

Originally, I got the preamp module just to simplify a speaker setup (just the kte + poweramp), but now that I want to expand further towards the headphone route, I feel that less is more, the flexibility of having a separate preamp is worth more than the nice trickled down serene tech (at a very, very good cost to performance ratio) in the long run  .

That said, I've read that someone else said the Holo Bliss have its preamp as an optional module too, so I am hoping that is still indeed the case. 

Either ways, I think I would have preferred to have bought the S3 and serene as individual pieces (even though it would had cost more), IMO


----------



## Josh05

ARCXENOS said:


> This is all true to my experience too, I am currently using my kte's preamp into headphone amps, and I could not hear any extra noise when left idle, at least to my ears.
> 
> I definitely agree that having a bypass would be a really nice feature to have. I have been thinking about getting Cayin's HA-300b, but I am left guessing if there is a possibility in signal degradation (vs just a pure DAC).
> 
> ...



I currently have the Pegasus and are close to pulling the trigger on the Spring 3 L3. I run the Pegasus i2s to a DDC. Is the Spring 3 a whole lot better?


----------



## anjocaido

bluenight said:


> Hi.
> Is this an uppgrade over hugo2/qutest dac?
> 
> And is there an big diffrence between level 2 and KTE? Is it worth that difference. Level 2 was reviewed as best buy.
> ...


I had a qutest and I can say that the spring KTE is a very significant upgrade over the qutest. I use the USB input and I'm quite happy with the result.


----------



## mudguardiain

anjocaido said:


> I had a qutest and I can say that the spring KTE is a very significant upgrade over the qutest. I use the USB input and I'm quite happy with the result.


I also had a Qutest which I really liked, but the Spring KTE is way better, in fact I personally think it is better than the Hugo TT2 which I also borrowed for a while.


----------



## bluenight

anjocaido said:


> I had a qutest and I can say that the spring KTE is a very significant upgrade over the qutest. I use the USB input and I'm quite happy with the result.





mudguardiain said:


> I also had a Qutest which I really liked, but the Spring KTE is way better, in fact I personally think it is better than the Hugo TT2 which I also borrowed for a while.


What do you like more with Spring KTE in terms of sound?


----------



## Josh05

Can’t wait! Should be a good upgrade from my Musician Pegasus. I’m hoping the i2s is compatible with my Pi2AES


----------



## ARCXENOS (Mar 9, 2022)

Josh05 said:


> I currently have the Pegasus and are close to pulling the trigger on the Spring 3 L3. I run the Pegasus i2s to a DDC. Is the Spring 3 a whole lot better?





Josh05 said:


> Can’t wait! Should be a good upgrade from my Musician Pegasus. I’m hoping the i2s is compatible with my Pi2AES


Guess I am abit late to answer this  

but my opinion is YES, having owned the Pegasus + Iris I2S setup, it pales in comparison to the S3 KTE (especially in smoothness), that I feel that the S3 KTE is well worth the money despite costing so much more.

Like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I never really thought DACs could make this big of a difference until I tried the KTE. In fact I am so sure my next DAC will be the May 2, when it gets released in a few years, gonna stick with my s3 until then.


----------



## anjocaido

bluenight said:


> What do you like more with Spring KTE in terms of sound?


What I can say from my experience is that spring manages to extract more detail. All the little details stand out. The stage is wider in width, depth and height and the instruments are more focused in space.
I can better distinguish all the individual instruments that are on stage.
The bass is more textured and deeper. Everything sounds more natural. Voices sound more natural. But it all also depends on the rest of the equipment you have.


----------



## Josh05

According to the latest update I’ve got, my DAC has been shipped express today and is due for delivery tomorrow. I was honestly expecting a 4-5 week wait as that’s what it said on the website. I’m so used to having to wait for everything audio related I buy getting that email was awesome. On top of that I don’t go back to work for another 3 days so plenty of time to have a listen.

If anyone is interested I’ll post some impressions of how it goes with my speaker system in my sig with low hours and once it reaches 500 hours.


----------



## soundchaos

Josh05 said:


> According to the latest update I’ve got, my DAC has been shipped express today and is due for delivery tomorrow. I was honestly expecting a 4-5 week wait as that’s what it said on the website. I’m so used to having to wait for everything audio related I buy getting that email was awesome. On top of that I don’t go back to work for another 3 days so plenty of time to have a listen.
> 
> If anyone is interested I’ll post some impressions of how it goes with my speaker system in my sig with low hours and once it reaches 500 hours.


When did you order if you don’t mind me asking? Trying to estimate how far out mine is 😀


----------



## Josh05

phoenixbt said:


> When did you order if you don’t mind me asking? Trying to estimate how far out mine is 😀


I ordered Wednesday 9th from Indie Hi-Fi in Australia. The website was a bit confusing, said in stock but also max of 5 week wait. I emailed them later on that day to clarify and they said they had the unit in stock and would ship it the next day.


----------



## soundchaos

Josh05 said:


> I ordered Wednesday 9th from Indie Hi-Fi in Australia. The website was a bit confusing, said in stock but also max of 5 week wait. I emailed them later on that day to clarify and they said they had the unit in stock and would ship it the next day.


Nice! Thanks! Hope you enjoy it 😀


----------



## Mircea C. (Mar 10, 2022)

deleted


----------



## bluenight

anjocaido said:


> What I can say from my experience is that spring manages to extract more detail. All the little details stand out. The stage is wider in width, depth and height and the instruments are more focused in space.
> I can better distinguish all the individual instruments that are on stage.
> The bass is more textured and deeper. Everything sounds more natural. Voices sound more natural. But it all also depends on the rest of the equipment you have.


My feeling is that this dac will be great for a bright can like HD800S to tame the treble peakness no doubt. As i hear often people say its non fatigueing and smooth. I would not like veiled though but i guess its not the case with spring 3 kte or level 2. The treble is still crisp and extended? 

An cheaper option i am looking at is VMV D2 dac. Soundnews youtube rewiev gave me a good impression of it, organic and smooth for being a delta sigma dac. 3d sound. Also  step down VMV D1Se also get great reviews. Anyone compared VMVD2 with Spring 3?


----------



## anjocaido

bluenight said:


> My feeling is that this dac will be great for a bright can like HD800S to tame the treble peakness no doubt. As i hear often people say its non fatigueing and smooth. I would not like veiled though but i guess its not the case with spring 3 kte or level 2. The treble is still crisp and extended?
> 
> An cheaper option i am looking at is VMV D2 dac. Soundnews youtube rewiev gave me a good impression of it, organic and smooth for being a delta sigma dac. 3d sound. Also  step down VMV D1Se also get great reviews. Anyone compared VMVD2 with Spring 3?


If you like reviews take a look at this 2:





A based my purchase on this reviewers and on this forum. And yes the treble is crisp and extended.


----------



## bluenight

anjocaido said:


> If you like reviews take a look at this 2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have allready seen the goldensound review and another one and i dont doubt its peformens. But maybe theres cheaper options out there that can come close (or not ) like VmV D2 or Gustard x26pro but the timbre was off on x26pro according to goldsound rewiev but almost perfect otherthen that. 

Anyway i got a good sense what spring 3 is about reading the back pages of those first impressions some people seem to nailed it. Like natural timbre, effortless, engaging, non fatigue smooth, great layering and soundstage. More like tube amp compared to hugo 2 solid state sound.


----------



## Smallpie

I have a Spring KTE I’m planning on selling after an upgrade. I will make a listing for it tomorrow.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

Hi everyone,

I'm more thrilled to join the club with my Spring 3 DAC Level 2. I've been enjoying my Spring 1 from 2018. I'm using Singxer SU-6 feeding I2S to the Holo. Just a couple of questions:






1- I don't see the "Oversampling Mode", which I have on my Spring 1, does the new Spring 3 DAC run exclusively in NOS mode and there is no way we can change it? I know the NOS is the best sounding mode of Holo DACs but just out of curiosity.

2- Regarding the PLL, if I use mainly the I2S input, should I turn PLL on or off? Is there a difference in sound quality between them?

3- I've heard that the Spring 3 requires a long-time burn in to reach max potential, what milestone should I expect my Spring to sound as it should?

Big thanks and happy listening everyone!


----------



## ARCXENOS

Aeolus Kratos said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm more thrilled to join the club with my Spring 3 DAC Level 2. I've been enjoying my Spring 1 from 2018. I'm using Singxer SU-6 feeding I2S to the Holo. Just a couple of questions:
> 
> ...



Congrats on the purchase, I hope you enjoy it

1. I could be wrong, maybe there is some secret combination that I do not know of, but I do not think there is regular PCM OS mode, also do not see it in the manual

3. According to wildism (HK distributor),  4-500 hours. But to be honest, it sounded fantastic out of the box for me.


----------



## MatW

Aeolus Kratos said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm more thrilled to join the club with my Spring 3 DAC Level 2. I've been enjoying my Spring 1 from 2018. I'm using Singxer SU-6 feeding I2S to the Holo. Just a couple of questions:
> 
> ...


Congrats. There is no OS mode on the device itself. If you want OS you have to upsample at the source, eg in Roon. But I also use NOS.


----------



## rocky500 (Mar 14, 2022)

Aeolus Kratos said:


> 2- Regarding the PLL, if I use mainly the I2S input, should I turn PLL on or off? Is there a difference in sound quality between them?



I found I preferred PLL off with my Singxer SU-6. Actually off as well when I run straight to USB too.


----------



## Marutks

Aeolus Kratos said:


> 2- Regarding the PLL, if I use mainly the I2S input, should I turn PLL on or off? Is there a difference in sound quality between them?



AFAIK   PLL makes difference only for SPDIF and AES inputs


----------



## elf21400 (Mar 15, 2022)

I recently got my Spring3 KTE.

We know that the enhanced USB module on Spring3 KTE (or May) is very good.
Now I want to find a way to make this USB input better.

I'm considering the following USB reclocker devices:
> Ideon 3R Master Time Black Star
> Innuos Phoenix USB Reclocker

These products can perform USB signal optimization work such as re-generating, re-clocking...
It will become "Signal Source -> USB reclocker -> Spring3 KTE".

Has anyone used these devices on Spring3 KTE (or May)?
What kind of sound changes will it have?


----------



## Zachik

elf21400 said:


> Hi guys,
> I also recently purchased a Spring3 KTE.
> As you all know, the USB input of Spring3 KTE is very good.
> So I want to find a solution that can make the USB input better.
> ...


To add to the question by @elf21400 - anyone tried the cheaper Holo Titanis active USB? I wonder if there is any benefit for having 2 x Titanis (what's the plural of Titanis?!) - one inside the Spring or May, and one plugged to the USB out of the source?
Another relatively inexpensive option is iFi's iPurifier3. Anyone tried one of those with the Spring / May?


----------



## rocky500

Marutks said:


> AFAIK   PLL makes difference only for SPDIF and AES inputs


I did read in this thread an earlier person posting a reply from Tim

Here is one of the replies received from Tim -

_"The delay of the pll is normal and does not affect latency. So if watching a movie, the audio and video will be in perfect sync.
What the pll can cause is a delay for locking onto the signal. So the first couple seconds are silent. If this is a no go for you, just turn it off."

I would personally recommend the KTE spring3 with enhanced usb module and use direct usb input. USB has the smallest delay with pll as it runs in master mode. But you can try your spdif2 which should be compatible in psaudio mode and setting dac for alt2.
But be sure to use shore i2s cable for best sound. Like 0.5M is fine. Imo the su2 or kte su2 does a bit better but back to my original recommendation… just try the usb module in the spring3, assuming it’s kte model it’s absolutely superb!!!

Other uses leave pll on and use playback software like jriver and add hardware synchronization delay of 4sec or so and alleviates the issue. Instead the music won’t start til the dac syncs."_


----------



## koso (Mar 15, 2022)

elf21400 said:


> I recently got my Spring3 KTE.
> 
> We know that the enhanced USB module on Spring3 KTE (or May) is very good.
> Now I want to find a way to make this USB input better.
> ...


I have Spring 3 KTE dac and I also have Ideon 3R Master Time Black Star and brand new Innuos Phoenix USB Reclocker (arrived just yesterday). Will post comparison after the burn in period of Phoenix is complete.
Anyway, USB input on Spring 3 KTE is great as is, but I do hear small improvement when Gaia DDC is in the chain (using I2S).
Mentioned pure USB reclockers will be tested next and I will report about my findings here.


----------



## Crow123

So my first post here but jumped from audio gd thread (r8mk2) 😀.

I have Bought a spring 2lvl2 and was wondering if it has PLL as well. I can’t find any info? also if it does have pll how do I toggle on and off as there is no power button?


----------



## 9bphillips

I'm not trying to stir up an argument because I've seen it before, but does a quality usb cable matter? Just wondering because my next purchase is likely to be the Spring 3kte and I know usb is the way to go with it.


----------



## Marutks (Mar 15, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> I'm not trying to stir up an argument because I've seen it before, but does a quality usb cable matter? Just wondering because my next purchase is likely to be the Spring 3kte and I know usb is the way to go with it.



I use USB cable that was supplied with my Spring 3 DAC.  I have Audioquest USB cable from "snake oil" department.
It doesn't sound any different.  Any USB cable is fine unless it is broken.    Burson used to ship broken USB cables with their DAC amps.


----------



## Smallpie

Selling my Spring KTE:

https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/holo-audio-spring-kte-version.22029/


----------



## 9bphillips

Akiravelvet said:


> Selling my Spring KTE:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/holo-audio-spring-kte-version.22029/


Damn it! Wish I had the scratch but I'm paying off my WA22 right now! Just curious but why are you selling it?


----------



## elf21400

koso said:


> I have Spring 3 KTE dac and I also have Ideon 3R Master Time Black Star and brand new Innuos Phoenix USB Reclocker (arrived just yesterday). Will post comparison after the burn in period of Phoenix is complete.
> Anyway, USB input on Spring 3 KTE is great as is, but I do hear small improvement when Gaia DDC is in the chain (using I2S).
> Mentioned pure USB reclockers will be tested next and I will report about my findings here.


This sounds great, thank you very much and looking forward to your results.

How do you feel about the improvement of the "Ideon 3R Master Time Black Star" so far?


----------



## koso (Mar 16, 2022)

elf21400 said:


> This sounds great, thank you very much and looking forward to your results.
> 
> How do you feel about the improvement of the "Ideon 3R Master Time Black Star" so far?


To be honest I was a bit disappointed with 3R reclocker. It sounds good, but in my setup Gaia via i2s sounds better. 3R is very smooth sounding, adding sort of calmness to the sound, but maybe the result is too calm, too smooth. Bass is bigger, goes lower with 3R, but lacks control. Gaia has more balanced sound, also smooth, but not too smooth, bass has less volume, but is better controlled. Gaia adds more air, everything is more natural. It is not apples to apples comparison, I know, as 3R is usb reclocker and Gaia DDC with no usb output, so you have to take into account that it is comparison of two different inputs (I2S vs USB) at the same time. And of course, it is quite certain, that this is system dependent. I can imagine that 3R can be excellent in systems that are (for whatever reason) little bit sharp and aggressive.


----------



## Josh05

Well I finally got it, so much for overnight shipping, it ended up being three working days total. Hardly had a chance to listen as it came and I had to go to work an hour later but straight away it is a big step up from my Musician Pegasus. I’ve got it running in at the moment. I’m off work Friday morning for four days so I’ll be having a beer and a good listen then


----------



## Blkspn

Aeolus Kratos said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm more thrilled to join the club with my Spring 3 DAC Level 2. I've been enjoying my Spring 1 from 2018. I'm using Singxer SU-6 feeding I2S to the Holo. Just a couple of questions:
> 
> ...


Do you hear a great improvement VS Spring 1 ?


----------



## koso

Josh05 said:


> Well I finally got it, so much for overnight shipping, it ended up being three working days total. Hardly had a chance to listen as it came and I had to go to work an hour later but straight away it is a big step up from my Musician Pegasus. I’ve got it running in at the moment. I’m off work Friday morning for four days so I’ll be having a beer and a good listen then


Congratulations. If you like it already, wait two-three weeks and you will be blown away


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

Blkspn said:


> Do you hear a great improvement VS Spring 1 ?


Yes, the most obvious thing that I've noticed when coming from Spring 1 to Spring 3 is that how "tighter" the sound is. The Spring 1 is no doubt wonderful, but it sounds somewhat "loose" and much softer compared to Spring 3.


----------



## Aeolus Kratos

koso said:


> Congratulations. If you like it already, wait two-three weeks and you will be blown away


How many hours did you find your Spring 3 have a "breakthrough" in sound quality? I'm burning mine for around 60 hours but no significant change yet. It sounded great out of the box.


----------



## koso

Aeolus Kratos said:


> How many hours did you find your Spring 3 have a "breakthrough" in sound quality? I'm burning mine for around 60 hours but no significant change yet. It sounded great out of the box.


Spring 3 KTE is the most extreme example of long burn in period I have heard. Good is after 300 hours, great after about 500 hours and you could expect small improvements even further up to 700 hours. And it is not only me, who noticed this on Spring 3. You can expect audible improvement almost each week…


----------



## Josh05

What’s everyone’s thoughts on i2s vs USB with the Spring 3 KTE? I’m currently running i2s to my Pi2AES.


----------



## dirtrat

I'm considering buying either the Spring 3 or the Holo May DAC. I was leaning towards buying the Holo May since it could do upsampling and NOS. My plan was to purchase a dedicated streamer instead of using my computer. In the past I had a dedicated Mac mini but I do remember I had to do many optimizations with that although that was several years ago. After watching the reviews by GoldenSound on YouTube he comments that the jitter on these two DAC's is so low it's not even measurable by him. Also these DAC's have Optical isolation on the USB input (With the upgraded versions). My question is can I use my regular home Gaming desktop computer to feed (Stream) to these DAC's without any concerns the audio quality will be compromised? This would allow me to purchase the Spring 3 and do my upsampling in software such as HQPlayer.


----------



## tdx

dirtrat said:


> I'm considering buying either the Spring 3 or the Holo May DAC. I was leaning towards buying the Holo May since it could do upsampling and NOS. My plan was to purchase a dedicated streamer instead of using my computer. In the past I had a dedicated Mac mini but I do remember I had to do many optimizations with that although that was several years ago. After watching the reviews by GoldenSound on YouTube he comments that the jitter on these two DAC's is so low it's not even measurable by him. Also these DAC's have Optical isolation on the USB input (With the upgraded versions). My question is can I use my regular home Gaming desktop computer to feed (Stream) to these DAC's without any concerns the audio quality will be compromised? This would allow me to purchase the Spring 3 and do my upsampling in software such as HQPlayer.


I'm feeding a Spring 3 KTE from an all purpose Intel NUC 9 using Roon/HQPlayer through an Ultrarendu. I have tried dedicated sources and honestly cant tell the difference in sound quality. My PC is not optimized in any way, nor do I use fancy Ethernet purifiers etc.  Just regular playback (upsampled) to the Spring and it sounds amazing...


----------



## Smallpie (Mar 17, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> Damn it! Wish I had the scratch but I'm paying off my WA22 right now! Just curious but why are you selling it?


Going in a different direction with dacs.
My favorite dacs seem to be ones with tube outputs as it adds a certain magic to my playback I haven’t heard in others.
Since my new Dac is very different sounding  from the spring I might just end up keeping both if I can afford it. I’m also saving up for a Lampizator Dac that I love but is very expensive even in the used market.


----------



## Zachik

Akiravelvet said:


> I’m also saving up for a Lampizator Dac that I love but is very expensive even in the used market.


I am selling my Lampizator Amber 3... Just saying


----------



## NoTimeFor

I never tried HQPlayer with Roon. Do you guys think Intel MacBook Pro (Core i5 CPU) can do upsampling?


----------



## kingoftown1

You won't be able to do everything, but yes


----------



## thecrow

koso said:


> Hi all. You must wait little bit more for my impressions and Spring 3 KTE / Venus II comparison.
> I had some technical issues with Spring 3, which I had to solve first, so actual burn-in period started just yesterday. Here is a short recap of what happened.
> 
> After my unit arrived, I noticed two issues.
> ...


Saw your post whilst reading up on this tonight

i have a may Kte version. About 550 hours use and tonight the hum started (for the first time)

i turned the unit off and back on and hum not there again at this point

did you find any more info re this issue

cheers


----------



## koso

thecrow said:


> Saw your post whilst reading up on this tonight
> 
> i have a may Kte version. About 550 hours use and tonight the hum started (for the first time)
> 
> ...


No new info. My unit is still fine, no audible hum.


----------



## elf21400 (Mar 21, 2022)

koso said:


> To be honest I was a bit disappointed with 3R reclocker. It sounds good, but in my setup Gaia via i2s sounds better. 3R is very smooth sounding, adding sort of calmness to the sound, but maybe the result is too calm, too smooth. Bass is bigger, goes lower with 3R, but lacks control. Gaia has more balanced sound, also smooth, but not too smooth, bass has less volume, but is better controlled. Gaia adds more air, everything is more natural. It is not apples to apples comparison, I know, as 3R is usb reclocker and Gaia DDC with no usb output, so you have to take into account that it is comparison of two different inputs (I2S vs USB) at the same time. And of course, it is quite certain, that this is system dependent. I can imagine that 3R can be excellent in systems that are (for whatever reason) little bit sharp and aggressive.


Many thanks for your sharing about 「3R reclocker vs. GAIA」.
It seems that the 3R reclocker is not an overall upgrade, and there will be a little sacrifice...
(e.g. GAIA has better control than 3R reclocker)

I am also interested in the following comparisons:

USB -> 3R reclocker(USB) -> GAIA(I2S) -> Spring3 KTE
vs.
USB -> GAIA(I2S) -> Spring3 KTE
vs.
USB -> 3R reclocker(USB) -> Spring3 KTE

If 3R reclocker is better solution for Spring3 KTE, then we could consider about 「3R reclocker vs. Innuos Phoenix」.


----------



## NoTimeFor

Does Spring 3 KTE have unusually high output voltage from XLR out? I heard like 4V. Is it going to be a problem for connecting it with external pre-amp?


----------



## koso

NoTimeFor said:


> Does Spring 3 KTE have unusually high output voltage from XLR out? I heard like 4V. Is it going to be a problem for connecting it with external pre-amp?


Spring 3 DAC voltage output is: 2.9 Vrms via RCA and 5.8 Vrms via XLR


----------



## NoTimeFor

koso said:


> Spring 3 DAC voltage output is: 2.9 Vrms via RCA and 5.8 Vrms via XLR


Thx. I see you use simaudio 600i amp. Did you need to change input voltage setting in 600i for holo spring 3?


----------



## koso (Mar 22, 2022)

NoTimeFor said:


> Thx. I see you use simaudio 600i amp. Did you need to change input voltage setting in 600i for holo spring 3?


No problem with Simaudio Moon 600i via XLR, I didn't have to change anything. And sounds sublime!


----------



## Josh05

At around 125 hours now and it’s definitely opened up a bit since new. Was connected through i2s to my Pi2AES. Thought I would try USB and don’t think I can tell a difference. PLL was on for both USB and i2s. 

Compared to my old dac the Musician Pegasus there is more resolution, larger soundstage with more space between sounds, a more natural tonality, it’s faster and bass has a lot more impact. The best part though is the timbre, it’s incredibly natural sounding.


----------



## SLC1966 (Apr 7, 2022)

I have a question about the XLR and RCA outputs on the Spring DAC.  I have the Spring KTE V1 version.  I am running RCA out to preamp for 2ch and XLR out to OOR/Hypsos stack for HP listening.

I had a couple people say to me very adamantly to not have RCA out and XLR out plugged in at the same time.  Even when only one is being used at a time.  They said there will be distortion issues.

I contacted Kitsunehifi and their response was:
"Both rca and xlr can be run at same time as we have dedicated output stages.
Hope this clarifies things
Best"

That said though when I have both RCA and XLR outputs plugged in at the same time I hear definite distortion.  That is both when listening to 2ch only or HP only.   I played around a ton with it since I would rather not unplug XLR or RCA out depending on what I am using.  It is an easy workaround but would prefer no to have to do that.

Anyone else played around with this?  What is your take on it?

Thank you


----------



## mmwwmm

@GoldenOne when you reviewed the Spring 3 and compared its sound vs May. Did you compare them plugged both to your Serene preamp? I mean, although the Spring 3 you reviewed had the optional preamp stage, did you always compared both plugged to the Serene? Thanks!


----------



## Marutks

I have both RCA and XLR plugged in and active at the same time.   There is no distortion.
Spring 3 KTE ( no pre amp).


----------



## soulrider4ever

Marutks said:


> I have both RCA and XLR plugged in and active at the same time.   There is no distortion.
> Spring 3 KTE ( no pre amp).


Same here, I have Spring 3 w/ preamp both plugged in no issues - although unlike most I prefer the single ended output, but most likely the function of going into a better amplifier for my speakers than what I had my balanced plugged into.  I would say that xlr sounded best when the amp was also fully balanced, I just happened to have now a better performing single ended amplifier.


----------



## joseph69

I had my original Kitsune Edition plugged into to different amps using both, the SR & XLR outputs (using one amp at a time) with no issues whatsoever. I now (and have been for a very long time) use an XLR Y splitter XLR on the amp sides (using one amp at time) with no issues whatsoever.


----------



## mmwwmm

mmwwmm said:


> @GoldenOne when you reviewed the Spring 3 and compared its sound vs May. Did you compare them plugged both to your Serene preamp? I mean, although the Spring 3 you reviewed had the optional preamp stage, did you always compared both plugged to the Serene? Thanks!


@GoldenOne  I have sent you a private message too with that question. I would greatly appreciate it if you had a moment to clarify how you made the comparison. Thanks!


----------



## Benno1988

Anyone done a proper comparison of Spring 3 and Qutest?


----------



## soulrider4ever

Benno1988 said:


> Anyone done a proper comparison of Spring 3 and Qutest?


Had a Qutest before a spring 1 - sold the Qutest almost immediately.  The spring was in another league for sure.  The spring 3 now is a step up over that.  Honestly any spring of any age or level to me is superior to the Qutest. Everything the Qutest did well the spring just did better.  Bass, realism, life, energy, tone, accuracy, soundstage, clarity.  

I can’t think of 1 area I would say the Qutest was it’s equal.


----------



## BlakeT

I have the both the Qutest and Spring 3 and I certainly prefer the Spring 3.  

However, I still think the Qutest is a terrific bang for the buck DAC that would be end game for many in this hobby, depending on taste/preferences.  I personally think the Qutest works best in a system that is a bit on the warm side to begin with.  The Qutest can also be improved with a good LPS.


----------



## SlothRock

For the Spring 3- is there a discernable difference between L1, L2, KTE? Obviously massive price gap from $2k-$3k so curious if people find the jump worth it


----------



## sparkylarky

SlothRock said:


> For the Spring 3- is there a discernable difference between L1, L2, KTE? Obviously massive price gap from $2k-$3k so curious if people find the jump worth it


I got the KTE level primarily for the USB Titanis module, it is the same as in the May.
According to Goldensound and others using the USB input measures very well (noise, jitter) and I did not want to invest in a DDC as well.
Of course some of the other "upgrades" won't hurt either 
But I have not auditioned the other levels, so cannot go into details in sound quality between the levels.


----------



## mmwwmm

For such an expensive device I would love to have many more reviews were all levels of Spring and May would be compared between themselves to know exactly where the SQ improvements when going up through the levels are, if any… (higher USB specs apart). I.e. I would love to read some reviews were the Spring 3 would be compared with and without preamp to know exactly how the preamp stage affects the end SQ cause there is no active stage 100% transparent. 
I tried to ask @GoldenOne details about how he compared the Spring 3 with internal preamp vs the May a few times but he doesn’t answer…

Another point is that is almost impossible to hear any of these units prior to purchase so buying them is a leap of faith.

These are very expensive devices and there are almost no reviews about them in the specialized media. Just a few youtubers (some of them suspiciously always favorable to almost every device or brand that comes from holo’s distributors) and of course all the end users that write here. 
No manufacturer webpage exists for such devices were the cheapest one start in the thousands of $ so all the technical info and support comes always from distributors pages…All this is a bit “obscure” for such an expensive devices…

At the end please take my comments comes as coming from someone very interested in the purchase of a new DAC for his system that needs just some more clear information


----------



## tawmizzzz (Apr 13, 2022)

Spring 3 KTE finally arrived! Out of box, I am a bit surprised at the lack of dynamics and precision on transients. I've read that Holo Audio is on the softer side, but could I expect dynamics and engagement to increase with burn-in? (Don't worry, I am running my unit as we speak lol).

My previous reference point was the iDSD Pro Signature DAC (burr brown DAC) preamped into Ferrum OOR Hypsos/preamped into the Enleum 23R. From Spring 3, it comes across as soft-sounding on both LCD5 and Susvara, even with upsampling via HQPlayer.

Don't get me wrong, I understand there are trade-offs-but am hoping I don't have to sacrifice too much punch for the more naturalness and timbre that R2Rs are known for. Curious how it has played out for others.


----------



## mmwwmm

It seems that for precision resistor ladder R2R designs some time is needed to reach thermal stabilization. Usually is a couple of hours. Nothing related to burn in. They just need a bit of time to reach the tolerances they are designed for at its usual working temperature.
If you feel the sound is still "off" after the Spring 3 has been powered for 2-3 hours then forget this.


----------



## soulrider4ever

tawmizzzz said:


> Spring 3 KTE finally arrived! Out of box, I am a bit surprised at the lack of dynamics and precision on transients. I've read that Holo Audio is on the softer side, but could I expect dynamics and engagement to increase with burn-in? (Don't worry, I am running my unit as we speak lol).
> 
> My previous reference point was the iDSD Pro Signature DAC (burr brown DAC) preamped into Ferrum OOR Hypsos/preamped into the Enleum 23R. From Spring 3, it comes across as soft-sounding on both LCD5 and Susvara, even with upsampling via HQPlayer.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I understand there are trade-offs-but am hoping I don't have to sacrifice too much punch for the more naturalness and timbre that R2Rs are known for. Curious how it has played out for others.


What preamp /amp are you using with Spring ?  I'd also give this a LOOONNGG time to burn in / settle down - I noticed mine which btw I bought USED got better after a couple months of being left on.  If you are still using the Ferrum/Enleum combo above that's a double preamp, perhaps try removing one of the preamps.


----------



## tawmizzzz

soulrider4ever said:


> What preamp /amp are you using with Spring ?  I'd also give this a LOOONNGG time to burn in / settle down - I noticed mine which btw I bought USED got better after a couple months of being left on.  If you are still using the Ferrum/Enleum combo above that's a double preamp, perhaps try removing one of the preamps.


Ah sorry for the confusion-I use the Spring 3 with _either_ 23r OR the Ferrum (separately, not altogether).

It sounds noticeably better from 23R with the Susvara at least; more dynamic. Reassuring to hear you've noticed changes over time-I'll definitely give it some time before deciding what survives ultimately .


----------



## antdroid

I am normally not a burn-in caring person, but the Spring 3 playing cold vs playing warm after an hour or two does sound less harsh and improved to me.
I love the Susvara / Bakoon/Spring3 combo.


----------



## jerryandme

Hi all,

New to the forum. I'm not a headphone guy, but this forum has the best Spring thread, so here I am, as 10 days ago I ordered a KTE w/preamp to drive latest Vandy 2Ces via bi-amped Starke Sound AD4.320. My source is IFI Zen Stream. My current DAC/pre is a modified Project Prebox S2... I've tried to upgrade, but things like a modified Lumin T2 at nearly 10x the cost have failed against the remarkable tiny Project. The Spring will be my first dip outside of Delta Sigma. Btw, tried over dozen amps till I found the Starke Sound...ASR's review of that is a joke... remarkable amp. Any other Milwaukee folks here?

I'll keep posted on the KTE arrival.

Matt


----------



## soulrider4ever

jerryandme said:


> Hi all,
> 
> New to the forum. I'm not a headphone guy, but this forum has the best Spring thread, so here I am, as 10 days ago I ordered a KTE w/preamp to drive latest Vandy 2Ces via bi-amped Starke Sound AD4.320. My source is IFI Zen Stream. My current DAC/pre is a modified Project Prebox S2... I've tried to upgrade, but things like a modified Lumin T2 at nearly 10x the cost have failed against the remarkable tiny Project. The Spring will be my first dip outside of Delta Sigma. Btw, tried over dozen amps till I found the Starke Sound...ASR's review of that is a joke... remarkable amp. Any other Milwaukee folks here?
> 
> ...


Welcome to the club!  I used to own a pair of Vandersteen Signature 3A's powered by a Pass Labs X150 and Vega for DAC - really a great speaker for sure.  I've never been a huge fan of Class D amps but I haven't heard them all - glad you enjoy your setup.  I believe you will definitely have an eye opening experience going from a S2 to a Spring 3 KTE w/ pre - holy smokes what an upgrade!  I'd argue that the 2Ces as good as they are will be your limiting factor now - but either way the journey is always the fun of this hifi stuff!


----------



## jerryandme (Apr 15, 2022)

soulrider4ever said:


> Welcome to the club!  I used to own a pair of Vandersteen Signature 3A's powered by a Pass Labs X150 and Vega for DAC - really a great speaker for sure.  I've never been a huge fan of Class D amps but I haven't heard them all - glad you enjoy your setup.  I believe you will definitely have an eye opening experience going from a S2 to a Spring 3 KTE w/ pre - holy smokes what an upgrade!  I'd argue that the 2Ces as good as they are will be your limiting factor now - but either way the journey is always the fun of this hifi stuff!


Yes, there are no D traits I can identify with the Starke... it's more like tube/solid state hybrid. They are releasing an improved version this summer, for apparently the same low price, so I'll probably swing for that...this is a view of the current set up...The KTE will look lovely here


----------



## LarsNL

For the Spring 3 KTE I would like to get tips for the best settings for up sampling in Audirvana on a Mac (mini M1).


----------



## Eylrik (Apr 16, 2022)

Hi,

Just got a Spring 3 lvl 2 with preamp.
It does sound as an upgrade to my Qutest, even out of the box. Now I’ll see if it gets better with time.

However I have an issue with the preamp : the volume was set at 80 by default, but when connected to my Feliks Audio Euforia (or any of my amps actually), there was a clear volume mismatch between the channels. Sound balance gets back to normal around volume 94 or 95 on the Spring…hence I could not use the volume control of the Spring.
Same problem on my Yamaha AS2100, everything works fine only at 94-95 volume.

Not sure to understand why…is it because the Spring 3 preamp is only supposed to work properly when connected to a power amp (i.e. with no volume control) ? Is it due to some fixed/variable output issue ? Why then a channel volume mismatch below 94-95 ?

Finally I tested the Spring 3 connected to the Yamaha main direct (which should disable the yamaha integrated preamp) and…the volume was so loud (with the Spring 3 volume set at 20), I was afraid my speakers would explode…

Of course I tried both RCA and XLR connections and swapping around cables and same issue…
Maybe the preamp is faulty…

Any clue would be greatly appreciated !


----------



## ARCXENOS

Eylrik said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just got a Spring 3 lvl 2 with preamp.
> It does sound as an upgrade to my Qutest, even out of the box. Now I’ll see if it gets better with time.
> ...



I am using the KTE + Preamp to my Flux FA-10, also just a pure headphone amplifier with its own volume control, I do not hear any channel imbalance on my end on both xlr / rca at below 95.

You might want to contact your dealer.


----------



## GoldenOne

antdroid said:


> I am normally not a burn-in caring person, but the Spring 3 playing cold vs playing warm after an hour or two does sound less harsh and improved to me.
> I love the Susvara / Bakoon/Spring3 combo.


Man I really want to hear the bakoon!


----------



## McPh1st0

Hello everyone, just got my Spring 3 L1 and was wondering how to identify the generation of the USB module in order to check for new firmware. In Roon it shows Holo Audio UAC2.0 Gen2 Standard. I quess i have the 2.0 module and need the USB Gen2 firmware only, right? What by the way are the differences between Gen2/2.1? 
When i powered on the DAC for the first time i saw something like 1.12 on the display - is this the firmware version?
Sorry for all these questions - i just got it and don't want to fry it just yet...

My system: Intel NUC8i5 (Roon ROCK) -> Allo USBridge Sig. Player (Roon bridge running RoPieee) ->Spring 3 ->Amp ->Speakers

THANKS!


----------



## GoldenOne

McPh1st0 said:


> Hello everyone, just got my Spring 3 L1 and was wondering how to identify the generation of the USB module in order to check for new firmware. In Roon it shows Holo Audio UAC2.0 Gen2 Standard. I quess i have the 2.0 module and need the USB Gen2 firmware only, right? What by the way are the differences between Gen2/2.1?
> When i powered on the DAC for the first time i saw something like 1.12 on the display - is this the firmware version?
> Sorry for all these questions - i just got it and don't want to fry it just yet...
> 
> ...


Install the drivers (the drivers are the same for both cards and regardless of firmware). Then open the holo audio control panel. It'll say 'Gen 2.0' or 'Gen 2.1'

If your unit is brand new it'll definitely have the G2.1 card though


----------



## McPh1st0

Thanks GoldenOne!
The unit is new yet it has the Gen 2.0 USB card.
What are the differences between this and 2.1?


----------



## GoldenOne

McPh1st0 said:


> Thanks GoldenOne!
> The unit is new yet it has the Gen 2.0 USB card.
> What are the differences between this and 2.1?


Are you sure it has gen 2.0?
'UAC2.0' Is a separate thing and is describing the standard usb audio protocol

What level is the DAC?


----------



## GoldenOne

McPh1st0 said:


> Thanks GoldenOne!
> The unit is new yet it has the Gen 2.0 USB card.
> What are the differences between this and 2.1?


Sorry just read up and saw its L1. L1 will have the standard gen 2.0 card.

Only kte got the upgraded G2.1 card


----------



## soulrider4ever

Eylrik said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just got a Spring 3 lvl 2 with preamp.
> It does sound as an upgrade to my Qutest, even out of the box. Now I’ll see if it gets better with time.
> ...


Yeah that’s got to be a faulty preamp - no way I’d be able to hear anything at all on level 20 volume into any amplifier.  Definitely setup an RMA.


----------



## dirtrat

I've seen a couple comments about Holo Audio not getting back to people with support questions. Is there a support problem with this company?


----------



## Eylrik

soulrider4ever said:


> Yeah that’s got to be a faulty preamp - no way I’d be able to hear anything at all on level 20 volume into any amplifier.  Definitely setup an RMA.


Just did and Magna Hifi in Europe was very helpful and responsive, so this should be fixed asap.


----------



## Eylrik

dirtrat said:


> I've seen a couple comments about Holo Audio not getting back to people with support questions. Is there a support problem with this company?


I don’t know about Holo Audio themselves, but the official reseller in Europe is very responsive.


----------



## ARCXENOS

I am about to buy a headphone tube amp, but I am wondering if the 11.6Vrms XLR output of the KTE preamp will be an issue.

If I turn down the preamp volume, will that help alleviate clipping issues?


----------



## dirtrat (Apr 17, 2022)

ARCXENOS said:


> I am about to buy a headphone tube amp, but I am wondering if the 11.6Vrms XLR output of the KTE preamp will be an issue.
> 
> If I turn down the preamp volume, will that help alleviate clipping issues?



Do you have a LINE out XLR that can go to the headphone amp? They are typically looking for under 6 Volts. I have a RAAL Requisite VM1-a headphone tube amp and I asked the designer about this. The Audio Holo May does 5.8 Volts on its XLR outputs on PCM content. My amplifier has a +20 dB input transformer that puts it near its limit. This is definitely a concern for me on overloading the input and is one reason I'm hesitant about buying the Holo May. Most companies stick to the 4-volt standard or close to it. It sounds like you are trying to drive it like a power amp but it's an integrated headphone amp.


----------



## mmwwmm

Anyone has tried the Spring 3 with the Mutec MC3+ USB? I’m curious after reading this post 
https://audioaddictsforum.com/post/63414
Can you improve the sound of the S3 so much using a good DDC like the Mutec with it?


----------



## BlakeT (Apr 17, 2022)

mmwwmm said:


> Anyone has tried the Spring 3 with the Mutec MC3+ USB? I’m curious after reading this post
> https://audioaddictsforum.com/post/63414
> Can you improve the sound of the S3 so much using a good DDC like the Mutec with it?



I haven't been following this thread much since purchasing my Spring 3, but looked at the link- so their conclusion is PLL on results in markedly inferior sound quality?  I've never read that before.  As I understand it, PLL on is supposed to help eliminate jitter, so how would PLL on make the sound quality worse?

The other thing that has me questioning things a bit is, they thought the sound stage was too large with PLL on.  The question I have is how would they know how large the sound stage should be?  They are just making guesses on that point.

Isolating just the sound stage variable, I question how a smaller sound stage in this instance is more accurate?  Bigger is usually better in my book because I am not sure how a DAC or amplifier for that matter can make something larger than what is in the recording.  Smaller, yes, that is possible but that would be a negative.  Making the sound stage comparatively larger, more holographic, noticeable, more "walk through" yes, a better DAC or amp can help with all that.

Edit: Before anyone mentions it, yes, I realize one can purchase software programs to manipulate and modify the sound stage and also the head.  That is a separate, unrelated item.


----------



## soulrider4ever

I prefer PLL on in my setup but I also don't have a DDC so YMMV.  I would imagine that guy just ran into a weird issue with an external reclocker going into the internal reclocker.


----------



## jerryandme

The Spring3KTEpre arrived today precisely 3 weeks after I placed the order. I didn't get an email until DHL had it on ground in Milwaukee. No matter, it's in fine order. 

Within about 90 mins of burn-in, it began outclassing my previous digi front-end (Project Prebox S2).  I'll keep it running more or less 24/7. 

I can already tell my previous Delta Sigma juggling basically proved a parade of lateral moves. Based on the 500 hour burn-in reports, l'll enjoy the foreplay on way to the sonic-gasms in the not so distant future.

This hobby is about the only thing sparking my soul at all the last few years...glad the Kitsune is here!


----------



## sparkylarky

jerryandme said:


> The Spring3KTEpre arrived today precisely 3 weeks after I placed the order. I didn't get an email until DHL had it on ground in Milwaukee. No matter, it's in fine order.
> 
> Within about 90 mins of burn-in, it began outclassing my previous digi front-end (Project Prebox S2).  I'll keep it running more or less 24/7.
> 
> ...


congrats
i have not regretted getting this amazing DAC for one second and I think it will stay with me for a very long time


----------



## mine

Waiting for my Spring 3 KTE +preamp  - will be my second DAC (ADI-2 DAC FS) . 

Hope there will be no problems serving as preamp for my active studiomonitors i.e.   2x Neumann KH-310 /2x KH-750)


----------



## SlothRock

mine said:


> Waiting for my Spring 3 KTE +preamp  - will be my second DAC (ADI-2 DAC FS) .
> 
> Hope there will be no problems serving as preamp for my active studiomonitors i.e.   2x Neumann KH-310 /2x KH-750)



Let me know how this goes - I currently have a Burson GT as my headphone amp and using the premap to my Neumann's with great success. I've been interested in the Spring 3 and if it has an even better preamp that may be interesting


----------



## dirtrat

I've hesitated buying the Holo May DAC because of the hot 5.8 volt balanced output and possibly overloading my amp input. If I purchased a Spring 3 with it's Preamp option, could I plug it into my integrated tube amp (Balanced input) and control the level using the preamp? Are there any sonic disadvantages to this? The Line level out may work but I would like a backup plan in case it doesn't.


----------



## BlakeT (Apr 30, 2022)

dirtrat said:


> I've hesitated buying the Holo May DAC because of the hot 5.8 volt balanced output and possibly overloading my amp input. If I purchased a Spring 3 with it's Preamp option, could I plug it into my integrated tube amp (Balanced input) and control the level using the preamp? Are there any sonic disadvantages to this? The Line level out may work but I would like a backup plan in case it doesn't.



Yes, you can do that.  I connect my Holo Spring 3 KTE (it has the preamp module), to a separate tube preamp and I use blend of the two preamps to attenuate volume.  I compared to Holo direct to amp and cannot detect any loss in transparency when re-inserting my preamp.  My preamp adds body, more three-dimensional holographic head stage, so it is a sonic win for me.

To be clear, the Holo preamp module is very good, so I am not suggesting anyone should buy a separate preamp.  But if you have a very good quality preamp already at your disposal, experiment and see what you think.  It is free to try.


----------



## devilboy

My Spring 3 KTE will arrive next week. I will use its balanced outputs to go into my Luxman p750u headphone amplifier. I can't imagine that 5.8 volts would be that damaging. My current DAC outputs 4 volts via balanced and it's never been an issue. 
Am I wrong?


----------



## soulrider4ever

BlakeT said:


> Yes, you can do that.  I connect my Holo Spring 3 KTE (it has the preamp module), to a separate tube preamp and I use blend of the two preamps to attenuate volume.  I compared to Holo direct to amp and cannot detect any loss in transparency when re-inserting my preamp.  My preamp adds body, more three-dimensional holographic head stage, so it is a sonic win for me.
> 
> To be clear, the Holo preamp module is very good, so I am not suggesting anyone should buy a separate preamp.  But if you have a very good quality preamp already at your disposal, experiment and see what you think.  It is free to try.


That’s funny because I literally just did the same thing but with a tube pre from a red wine audio Isabella - the built in preamp is super transparent but solid state sounding.  

Adding a tube pre has just added a lovely sound to the already remarkable spring 3 KTE.  Better sound stage, more holographic presentation and that added meat to the midrange.  Really lovely combination.


----------



## jerryandme

koso said:


> *Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC review*
> _(& comparison with Denafrips Venus II)_
> 
> *INTRODUCTION*
> ...


I'm at around 120 hours, and I've recently noticed the first super palpable improvement, which matches Koso's helpful chart. Good, in Koso's likely more seasoned DAC world, is fabulous to me, so I'm already freaked at what R2R can organically do compared to Delta Sigma. I'm only a 1/5 up the climb...crazy


----------



## dirtrat

devilboy said:


> My Spring 3 KTE will arrive next week. I will use its balanced outputs to go into my Luxman p750u headphone amplifier. I can't imagine that 5.8 volts would be that damaging. My current DAC outputs 4 volts via balanced and it's never been an issue.
> Am I wrong?


I'm more worried about overloading the input and yes this is a very real problem and has been documented a number of times in the Head-fi forums. The balanced standard is 4 volts but the Holo Audio DAC output on PCM is near 6 volts. The input maximum of my tube amp is 20dB so this is very close. You will start having degraded sound once you hit that limit. I once asked why some DAC's have such a hot output on the balanced line and someone suggested it may have to do with the losses on long XLR wire runs. Honestly I really don't understand why Holo couldn't have given an option of reducing this output on line outputs. Many DAC;s offer this.


----------



## dirtrat (Apr 30, 2022)

BlakeT said:


> Yes, you can do that.  I connect my Holo Spring 3 KTE (it has the preamp module), to a separate tube preamp and I use blend of the two preamps to attenuate volume.  I compared to Holo direct to amp and cannot detect any loss in transparency when re-inserting my preamp.  My preamp adds body, more three-dimensional holographic head stage, so it is a sonic win for me.
> 
> To be clear, the Holo preamp module is very good, so I am not suggesting anyone should buy a separate preamp.  But if you have a very good quality preamp already at your disposal, experiment and see what you think.  It is free to try.



Thanks for posting this. I guess its trial and error then on where the volume should be and will need to be set by ear. I would have no idea where 4 volts or near that would be.


----------



## Benno1988

dirtrat said:


> I'm more worried about overloading the input and yes this is a very real problem and has been documented a number of times in the Head-fi forums. The balanced standard is 4 volts but the Holo Audio DAC output on PCM is near 6 volts. The input maximum of my tube amp is 20dB so this is very close. You will start having degraded sound once you hit that limit. I once asked why some DAC's have such a hot output on the balanced line and someone suggested it may have to do with the losses on long XLR wire runs. Honestly I really don't understand why Holo couldn't have given an option of reducing this output on line outputs. Many DAC;s offer this.


Buy some XLR attenuators?


----------



## devilboy

dirtrat said:


> I'm more worried about overloading the input and yes this is a very real problem and has been documented a number of times in the Head-fi forums. The balanced standard is 4 volts but the Holo Audio DAC output on PCM is near 6 volts. The input maximum of my tube amp is 20dB so this is very close. You will start having degraded sound once you hit that limit. I once asked why some DAC's have such a hot output on the balanced line and someone suggested it may have to do with the losses on long XLR wire runs. Honestly I really don't understand why Holo couldn't have given an option of reducing this output on line outputs. Many DAC;s offer this.


Many preamps have a 7,8 or 9 volt output to an amplifier but the 5.8 volts to my headphone amplifier will be too much?


----------



## Benno1988

How does the Spring 3 do streaming Spotify?

No HQPlayer or Room etc.


----------



## ARCXENOS

ARCXENOS said:


> I am about to buy a headphone tube amp, but I am wondering if the 11.6Vrms XLR output of the KTE preamp will be an issue.
> 
> If I turn down the preamp volume, will that help alleviate clipping issues?



I did non-scientific testing over the past few days, what I say is just going to be my opinion based on my subjective hearing, take it with a grain of salt.

First I must admit, at the start when I started noticing some distortions, I thought it was the power mismatch, but upon testing my other old dacs (schiit modi, topping d70), the distortions still appeared to be there, so I suspect its most likely just the songs. The brain is one hell of a drug. 

There was a very minute difference when used 100% of the preamp's power (the full 11.6 vrms) into my FA-10 at step 100 vs step 80. I attempted to volume match the headphone's volume to the decreasing preamp volume, but as I don't have a proper multimeter or a good db measurement tool, I cannot prove it in full certainty. 

Likewise, I dugout my old schiit magni and tested the preamp via RCA outputs, its behavior seems to be quite similar to a schiit modi in terms of distortion at max levels.

The obvious problem I have now is that both my unscientific tests are using solid state amplifiers, I don't know how true these will perform with tube amps (I am getting a Cayin HA-300b mk2, would be a shame if they didn't sound as good as when I tried them at my vendor's)

Reading and asking around, I do believe that lowering the preamp's volume will be sufficient to meet the common 4 to 6vrms input window, the problem is ascertaining which step actually fits the bill (any one of you fine gentlemen wanna get a  good multimeter ?  ).  

That said, I fully believe that the preamp module is competent, but I wish there was a bypass option.


----------



## dirtrat

devilboy said:


> Many preamps have a 7,8 or 9 volt output to an amplifier but the 5.8 volts to my headphone amplifier will be too much?



But I'm talking about a DAC output, not a preamp output.  Normally DACS have a line level fixed output. Preamps are normally used to drive power amplifiers, not necessarily integrated amp inputs since integrated amps already have a preamp. I've never seen a DAC with over 6 volts on XLR, especially since the standard is pretty much 4 volts.


----------



## dirtrat

Benno1988 said:


> Buy some XLR attenuators?



Do you know who sells these?


----------



## BlakeT

dirtrat said:


> Do you know who sells these?


http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/attenuators.html


----------



## elf21400 (May 1, 2022)

dirtrat said:


> I'm more worried about overloading the input and yes this is a very real problem and has been documented a number of times in the Head-fi forums. The balanced standard is 4 volts but the Holo Audio DAC output on PCM is near 6 volts. The input maximum of my tube amp is 20dB so this is very close. You will start having degraded sound once you hit that limit. I once asked why some DAC's have such a hot output on the balanced line and someone suggested it may have to do with the losses on long XLR wire runs. Honestly I really don't understand why Holo couldn't have given an option of reducing this output on line outputs. Many DAC;s offer this.


For example,
Let's take a look at Chord, another very popular brand.

Chord Dave dac mode
-> 3 V unbalanced and 6 V balanced
(You can find this information in Chord Dave's user manual chapter 6.4 DAC mode)
https://chordelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Dave-User-manual-V1.1.pdf

I also have no idea about, if this is big problem, why Chord set 6 V balanced on Dave's dac mode?
Why Holo set 5.8V balanced on Spring3?


----------



## chesebert

Both Chord Dave and Holo are outside the range of typical audio application. 2v unbalanced and 4v balanced have been the standard for decades now. Driving higher input voltage into preamp may clip some preamps.


----------



## koso (May 1, 2022)

jerryandme said:


> I'm at around 120 hours, and I've recently noticed the first super palpable improvement, which matches Koso's helpful chart. Good, in Koso's likely more seasoned DAC world, is fabulous to me, so I'm already freaked at what R2R can organically do compared to Delta Sigma. I'm only a 1/5 up the climb...crazy


I know it might have been the most absurd thing for someone, but I meant it with that chart.  I have experience with the "burn in" process at a minimum of 5 different dacs, including the R2R design, but it takes especially long time for Spring 3 KTE. No idea why. Anyway, if you already like the sound, just enjoy listening, it will only get better and I guess you will notice it. (…and yes, I was referring to already very good DACs as a reference in that chart).


----------



## dirtrat (May 1, 2022)

BlakeT said:


> http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/attenuators.html



Thanks for the link but I'm in the US. At least I can do a search now that I know they exist. Maybe other companies sell this. This could be tricky though since when listening to DSD the DAC output is much lower compared to PCM. Also it looks like most of these are a minimum of 10dB attenuation which would be excessive.


----------



## SLC1966

dirtrat said:


> Thanks for the link but I'm in the US. At least I can do a search now that I know they exist. Maybe other companies sell this. This could be tricky though since when listening to DSD the DAC output is much lower compared to PCM. Also it looks like most of these are a minimum of 10dB attenuation which would be excessive.


http://www.britaudio.com/accessories.html

They are out of NC


----------



## bilboda

tawmizzzz said:


> Spring 3 KTE finally arrived! Out of box, I am a bit surprised at the lack of dynamics and precision on transients. I've read that Holo Audio is on the softer side, but could I expect dynamics and engagement to increase with burn-in? (Don't worry, I am running my unit as we speak lol).
> 
> My previous reference point was the iDSD Pro Signature DAC (burr brown DAC) preamped into Ferrum OOR Hypsos/preamped into the Enleum 23R. From Spring 3, it comes across as soft-sounding on both LCD5 and Susvara, even with upsampling via HQPlayer.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I understand there are trade-offs-but am hoping I don't have to sacrifice too much punch for the more naturalness and timbre that R2Rs are known for. Curious how it has played out for others.


Been quite a while. Has it broken in more yet? @ preamps, maybe set the ferrum to unity gain when using the enleum?


----------



## tawmizzzz

bilboda said:


> Been quite a while. Has it broken in more yet? @ preamps, maybe set the ferrum to unity gain when using the enleum?


Yes much better! Any concerns about dynamics or punch are pretty much gone. I think the missing piece was my power situation as I switched to a Niagara1200 which helped my combo (Ferrum/Spring) feel much more “there”—pitch black background, reverb on micro dynamics, and just excellent balance and texture. Staging is organized with excellent imaging. Minimal coloration to my ears.


----------



## devilboy (May 7, 2022)

Spring 3 KTE.

Only have 48 hours or so on it but... WOW.


----------



## chesebert

devilboy said:


> Spring 3 KTE.
> 
> Only have 48 hours or so on it but... WOW.


yawn...honeymoon period comments. Come back after 18 months and let's see if you still feel the same way (if you still have the dac at all).


----------



## devilboy

chesebert said:


> yawn...honeymoon period comments. Come back after 18 months and let's see if you still feel the same way (if you still have the dac at all).


Jesus, chesebert. Chill.
I must admit though, I literally laughed out loud.


----------



## soulrider4ever

devilboy said:


> Jesus, chesebert. Chill.
> I must admit though, I literally laughed out loud.


LOL right? The cynicism is strong with this one.  

Does it count that I went from a Spring 1 to a Spring 3 and am saving for the May? 

Technically I don’t have the same DAC as 18 months ago because of this but if I’m staying with the same manufacturer… I think that speaks volumes vs. bandwagon FOTM.


----------



## tawmizzzz (May 7, 2022)

Lol the headphone trolls are so much worse than the IEM ones.

Keep us posted how the Spring continues to burn in for you!


----------



## devilboy

soulrider4ever said:


> LOL right? The cynicism is strong with this one.
> 
> Does it count that I went from a Spring 1 to a Spring 3 and am saving for the May?
> 
> Technically I don’t have the same DAC as 18 months ago because of this but if I’m staying with the same manufacturer… I think that speaks volumes vs. bandwagon FOTM.


Well said, well said.


----------



## sparkylarky

soulrider4ever said:


> LOL right? The cynicism is strong with this one.
> 
> Does it count that I went from a Spring 1 to a Spring 3 and am saving for the May?
> 
> Technically I don’t have the same DAC as 18 months ago because of this but if I’m staying with the same manufacturer… I think that speaks volumes vs. bandwagon FOTM.


I really think the Spring 3 KTE will stay with me for a very long time, a bit like endgame-ish
(but then of course 18 months is a long time and the Spring 5 Summer KTE+++ might be out


----------



## devilboy

sparkylarky said:


> I really think the Spring 3 KTE will stay with me for a very long time, a bit like endgame-ish
> (but then of course 18 months is a long time and the Spring 5 Summer KTE+++ might be out


Lol!  😂


----------



## devilboy

This morning sounded absolutely sublime. What a piece.


----------



## BassicScience (May 11, 2022)

*********** DAC HAS BEEN SOLD ***********

Just a heads up that I've listed my Spring 3 KTE for sale. Unit is 2 weeks old, mint condition, no preamp option.

Spring 3 KTE Listing


----------



## ChJL

What's the consensus on the stock power cable that comes with Spring DACs? Are you owners using that? If not which one instead? Thanks


----------



## devilboy

ChJL said:


> What's the consensus on the stock power cable that comes with Spring DACs? Are you owners using that? If not which one instead? Thanks


I never used it. I have a Triode Wire Labs Digital American and it's wonderful.


----------



## Delta9K (May 12, 2022)

ChJL said:


> What's the consensus on the stock power cable that comes with Spring DACs?


It is a courtesy cable, something to get you up an running quickly while you order and receive something else if you don't already have another on hand. I'm not running anything bougie - Pangea AC-14SE MKII, I like it better than the NRG 4 (I can not detect a difference between the two, and it costs a little less).


----------



## kingoftown1

If you're up for some DIY, Neotech NEP-3002 makes for a great cable that's not too spendy.


----------



## Rantenti

Larry Man said:


> Then after short ownerships of the Musician Pegasus and Aquarius, and contemplating on the Audio-GD R7 MKII, i finally made my seemingly right choice of the Holo Audio Spring 3. So far i trust this is my best decison made in investing in audio for the money. Before that I've also owned many Delta-Sigma DACs with highly appraised reviewes by both experts and consumers, like Gustard X26 Pro, SMSL VMV D1se and Cary Audio DMS-550 & DMS-700 (these are streaming DACs). I ened up selling them all to friends or in Canuck's Audio Mart. I like the Cary DMS-700 very much though, it has an on-board PCM & DSD Hardware Oversampling feature which is now only available in May DAC but missing from the Spring 3. Nevertheless, after now 130+ hours of burn-in on my Spring 3, the micro/macro details & dynamics in the music are unbelievable. Feel like the positive effects are increased further when more hours in. Never before listening to my favorable tracks are like digging into treasures.


Happy that you have found a DAC that suits you personally. It would be wonderful if you would share how different the Spring 3 sound versus the Gustard X26 pro and the Musician Aquarius respectively? And may we know which version your Spring 3 DAC is (Level 1/2/KTE)?


----------



## anjocaido

ChJL said:


> What's the consensus on the stock power cable that comes with Spring DACs? Are you owners using that? If not which one instead? Thanks


I'm using this cable form amazon 
https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B096ZLHMK4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## devilboy

I was just curious to know as to Holo owners are getting the digital signal to their dac. Because of Goldensound's video, I decided to try my Spring 3 KTE by going directly into the USB input from my Mac. I didn't compare it any other way. 
Is anyone using an external ddc? If so, how does it compare with other inputs you may have tried?

I ask because I'm looking to upgrade my audio signal NORTH of the Holo.
Trying to find a better solution to get the music from my network to the dac. I don't have Roon.


----------



## soulrider4ever

devilboy said:


> I was just curious to know as to Holo owners are getting the digital signal to their dac. Because of Goldensound's video, I decided to try my Spring 3 KTE by going directly into the USB input from my Mac. I didn't compare it any other way.
> Is anyone using an external ddc? If so, how does it compare with other inputs you may have tried?
> 
> I ask because I'm looking to upgrade my audio signal NORTH of the Holo.
> Trying to find a better solution to get the music from my network to the dac. I don't have Roon.


I currently have an Auralic Aries Femto but recently purchased both a Singxer Su-1 and a Su-6.  I also have a Lumin U2 mini on the way.

So far I still prefer AES from the Aries vs USB to SU-1 then I2S with Audioquest chocolate HDMI .6m.  It’s really close though.  I should have the SU-6 by Tuesday, the Lumin U2 mini comes tomorrow.

The USB on my KTE via Aries direct to me is the most rounded off sounding of the bunch - as in lacking punch and drive.  I’ve never found USB to be great for audio despite how great the Titan module is - it’s relegated to nVidia shield duties which works better than optical out from my TV.  

However I suspect the Aries USB out is just not great.  Oh I also have a iGalvanic on the way to help add some basic usb noise isolation.  Should be an interesting week of testing.


----------



## dirtrat (May 13, 2022)

devilboy said:


> I was just curious to know as to Holo owners are getting the digital signal to their dac. Because of Goldensound's video, I decided to try my Spring 3 KTE by going directly into the USB input from my Mac. I didn't compare it any other way.
> Is anyone using an external ddc? If so, how does it compare with other inputs you may have tried?
> 
> I ask because I'm looking to upgrade my audio signal NORTH of the Holo.
> Trying to find a better solution to get the music from my network to the dac. I don't have Roon.




I have a similar plan. My Holo May KTE is still on order but after watching reviews on how good the USB is, I decided to just try streaming from my desktop computer first. If I'm unhappy or think I can make additional improvements, I was looking at going to the Aurender N20. One step at a time for me. I know its preferred to have a good USB on everything in the chain but if your streamer USB is just OK, will it make that much of a difference if your DAC has Galvanic isolation? As far as the DDC, I know Goldensound indicated it made no difference at all on the Holo May so that may also be true for the Spring 3.


----------



## ericx85

I probably have crap power, but I found a decent filtered power strip helped more than a source. Like GS said Spring 3 KTE/May have beast mode USB implementations


----------



## sparkylarky

devilboy said:


> I was just curious to know as to Holo owners are getting the digital signal to their dac. Because of Goldensound's video, I decided to try my Spring 3 KTE by going directly into the USB input from my Mac. I didn't compare it any other way.
> Is anyone using an external ddc? If so, how does it compare with other inputs you may have tried?
> 
> I ask because I'm looking to upgrade my audio signal NORTH of the Holo.
> Trying to find a better solution to get the music from my network to the dac. I don't have Roon.


I do exactly that (USB direct from laptop with Sygnalist and Strawberry) and am very pleased with the sound quality. I think Golden was on the point there.
Definitely worth getting the KTE version for the upgraded USB module with galvanic isolation I think.
But I still want to try out connecting some source/streamer via I2S one day to see if there is any difference, but I'm not in a hurry.


----------



## devilboy

sparkylarky said:


> I do exactly that (USB direct from laptop with Sygnalist and Strawberry) and am very pleased with the sound quality. I think Golden was on the point there.
> Definitely worth getting the KTE version for the upgraded USB module with galvanic isolation I think.
> But I still want to try out connecting some source/streamer via I2S one day to see if there is any difference, but I'm not in a hurry.


Gotcha. 
The deciding factor for me when I purchased was the supposed fantastic USB implementation that the KTE offered. I listen to via USB when I first got it and after about 100 hours and it really does sound fantastic. 

I sold off my Denafrips Hermes DDC because the i2s cable I was using had RJ45 connections due to my previous DAC being a Sonnet Morpheus which only accepted rj45. I could have gotten an eye-2s cable but I wanted to rebound a little bit from the purchase of the Holo and the loss I'm taking from selling the Sonnet.

Anyway, I'm thinking of getting an iPad and getting some sort of Roon device. From there if I can somehow send the signal via optical cable at some point and then maybe connect to the Holo? Or maybe some other device. I'm really unfamiliar with digital signals north of the dac. I'd like to have the best digital I can afford between the router and the DAC and from what I'm hearing having the signal go through an optical cable at some point is the way to go.

Or maybe I'm overthinking all of this and just go straight from my computer into the Spring 3 KTE via USB and stop worrying.


----------



## Delta9K

devilboy said:


> I was just curious to know as to Holo owners are getting the digital signal to their dac.


When I first got the Spring3 KTE I was using a DDC,  USB in from source then i2s to DAC, I also tried the AES and Coaxial SPDIF. i2s sounded the best to me. In all instances PLL was enabled. Experimenting, I took the DDC out of line and went USB direct from my source to the DAC and there was no noticeable difference between the i2s and the USB in fact it might have improved, but we'll call it even for conversation. I was pretty happy because now I could remove the DDC out of the chain simplifying matters electrically and physically.

I digress - the point is I'm quite happy to use the Titanis 2.0 USB along with a good cable.

Simple topology:
roon core --> ethernet --> roon bridge --> USB --> SpringV3 KTE


----------



## BassicScience

devilboy said:


> Gotcha.
> The deciding factor for me when I purchased was the supposed fantastic USB implementation that the KTE offered. I listen to via USB when I first got it and after about 100 hours and it really does sound fantastic.
> 
> I sold off my Denafrips Hermes DDC because the i2s cable I was using had RJ45 connections due to my previous DAC being a Sonnet Morpheus which only accepted rj45. I could have gotten an eye-2s cable but I wanted to rebound a little bit from the purchase of the Holo and the loss I'm taking from selling the Sonnet.
> ...


I vote "stop worrying". A DAC such as the Spring 3 KTE, with excellent galvanic isolation and jitter attenuation, isn't going to benefit much (if at all) from upstream improvements. That money is better spent elsewhere.


----------



## Delta9K

devilboy said:


> Or maybe I'm overthinking all of this and just go straight from my computer into the Spring 3 KTE via USB and stop worrying.


It is certainly worth a try YMMV, but if it works out well for you there is money to be saved that you can then spend on your library or...


----------



## sparkylarky (May 13, 2022)

devilboy said:


> Gotcha.
> The deciding factor for me when I purchased was the supposed fantastic USB implementation that the KTE offered. I listen to via USB when I first got it and after about 100 hours and it really does sound fantastic.
> 
> I sold off my Denafrips Hermes DDC because the i2s cable I was using had RJ45 connections due to my previous DAC being a Sonnet Morpheus which only accepted rj45. I could have gotten an eye-2s cable but I wanted to rebound a little bit from the purchase of the Holo and the loss I'm taking from selling the Sonnet.
> ...


I do not do Internet streaming myself like Qobuz, etc. and think Roon is somewhat a ponzi scheme because of its monthly subscription pricing.
I have a vast library (mostly my own vinyl rips) on a NAS.
My own rips are all 32 bit depth and so far I have not come across a reasonably priced DDC that would support that and I hate bottlenecks.
All my past experiences with network streamers were also negative (Matrix Audio, IFI, ...) because of bugs in web interface or in the app, usability, functionality and limitations,  and of course sound quality.
Since I moved to USB from laptop I am much happier since I have the Spring 3 KTE, before that purchase I would not have considered it.
Of course laptop->USB can produce a lot of noise but at least in this current setup I don't have a lot of complaints.
Can it be improved? Sure, always. But until that itch becomes too much and I have to scratch it I'll just enjoy it.
I really think the Spring KTE produces an amazing clean signal via USB, probably better than many other DACs out there.

More experienced people on here might have better comments and suggestions.


----------



## mudguardiain

BassicScience said:


> I vote "stop worrying". A DAC such as the Spring 3 KTE, with excellent galvanic isolation and jitter attenuation, isn't going to benefit much (if at all) from upstream improvements. That money is better spent elsewhere.


I am using USB fed from a Melco N1A EX, sounds spot on to me. After trying a couple of Audioquest USB cables I tried a Supra cable which I think is excellent, just well made simple cable that seems to sound better than the more expensive Audioquest cable. The biggest improvement to my system was adding the Puritan Audio PSM136, this is despite already having a dedicated main spur. Music just seems so real & alive after adding the Puritan. Initially I thought it was rather expensive but after hearing the results I consider it exceptional value for money. I have had the Spring 3 KTE for several months now & I am still wowed every time I listen, think it will be in my system for a long time yet.


----------



## jerryandme

I've hit about the 400 hour mark. The burn-in improvement has been far more significant than with any other component I've owned. I can't imagine any 3kish audiophile product that does it's job better than the spring 3. I won't stray from the Holo line for digital moving forward.

That being said, the states suck, so I'm getting all my possessions into a carry-on and traveling the world starting in November, so it will be sold in a few months.


----------



## ChJL

Larry Man said:


> I stumbled and wasted much of my monies & time searching for the best possible sounding DAC i could afford to compliment my home PC Audio setup until recently I have discovered the DACs with R2R technology. Then after short ownerships of the Musician Pegasus and Aquarius, and contemplating on the Audio-GD R7 MKII, i finally made my seemingly right choice of the Holo Audio Spring 3. So far i trust this is my best decison made in investing in audio for the money. Before that I've also owned many Delta-Sigma DACs with highly appraised reviewes by both experts and consumers, like Gustard X26 Pro, SMSL VMV D1se and Cary Audio DMS-550 & DMS-700 (these are streaming DACs). I ened up selling them all to friends or in Canuck's Audio Mart. I like the Cary DMS-700 very much though, it has an on-board PCM & DSD Hardware Oversampling feature which is now only available in May DAC but missing from the Spring 3. Nevertheless, after now 130+ hours of burn-in on my Spring 3, the micro/macro details & dynamics in the music are unbelievable. Feel like the positive effects are increased further when more hours in. Never before listening to my favorable tracks are like digging into treasures.
> 
> I personally found that this particular forum is filled with gentlemen. I tried sharing my experiences and tips on DACs in two other forums, i received mostly abuses and attacks and turned into being lectured. I didn't have time for those headaches and shut myself up and quit. And most of them believing in "measurements", unfortunately i am only a music lover who without an engineering degree.
> 
> Thank you all here in this precious forum !


I'm about to decide whether a Spring 3 or Gustard X26 pro to add to an Oor/Hypsos stack... 
I think most on this forum would vote for the Holo DAC, right?

What kind of music are you listening to?


----------



## BassicScience

sparkylarky said:


> I do not do Internet streaming myself like Qobuz, etc. and think Roon is somewhat a ponzi scheme because of its monthly subscription pricing.


A Ponzi scheme is where someone defrauds investors by generating "returns" for existing clients simply by paying them out money from new clients, while typically siphoning off a ton of cash for themselves in the process. Roon is a subscription service for a software product that creates *actual value* for its users. _You _may not find it worthwhile, but please don't insinuate that the company is doing anything nefarious.


----------



## sparkylarky

BassicScience said:


> A Ponzi scheme is where someone defrauds investors by generating "returns" for existing clients simply by paying them out money from new clients, while typically siphoning off a ton of cash for themselves in the process. Roon is a subscription service for a software product that creates *actual value* for its users. _You _may not find it worthwhile, but please don't insinuate that the company is doing anything nefarious.


Sure, i was exaggerating on purpose, but i still think it is overpriced for what it delivers.
It depends what is important for you personally of course.
For me, I personally think that Roon is overpriced for what it actually delivers and there is no way i will ever consider it because it would not add any value.
I can do much more with Sygnalyst and that is a one-off payment.


----------



## kingoftown1

re: feeding the Spring.  I'll represent the extreme end of the I2S input group.  Setup is:
fanless pc w/ Jcat USB XE (HDPlex 200W on the XE and internal music SSD) > Inakustik Referenz USB > Singxer SU-6 (powered by Hypsos) > Furutech HF-X NCF > L2 Spring
Neotech NEP-3002 power cables on everything, purple fuses in the Hypsos & Spring

This has evolved over time and each progression brought audible improvements, all the way back to power cable comparisons on the PC.  As good as the KTE USB module is, I can't bring myself to believe it would compare.  The only thing I feel like I'm missing out on is higher sample rates due to the SU-6 topping out at 384k.


----------



## SlothRock

Well folks, I just purchased a Spring 3 KTE! See y’all in 5-6 weeks for a review


----------



## Rantenti

devilboy said:


> Spring 3 KTE.
> 
> Only have 48 hours or so on it but... WOW.


Beautiful beautiful setup, I'm ordering a Spring 3 KTE today! I have the Triode Wire Labs Spirit II XLRs which might work well with the Spring 3 like your TWL American power cord.

Skipping out of topic a bit, I noticed you're using the AECO 4-pin XLR on your silver heapdhone cable plugged into the Luxman headamp in your photos. May I ask which plating does the plug have and what do you think about its sound/ stability when plugging in?

I am using the AECO silver plated 3-pin XLR on solid silver interconnects and they are fantastic without the glare in some plated silver products. The female plugs are very loose when pluged into XLR output of my DAC, though the connection is stable. Takes some time to get used to it. Thinking about giving my silver headphone cables AECO plugs and taking out those Neutriks.


----------



## devilboy (May 14, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> Well folks, I just purchased a Spring 3 KTE! See y’all in 5-6 weeks for a review


Probably not. I got mine in 17 days. 
Good luck!


----------



## devilboy

Rantenti said:


> Beautiful beautiful setup, I'm ordering a Spring 3 KTE today! I have the Triode Wire Labs Spirit II XLRs which might work well with the Spring 3 like your TWL American power cord.
> 
> Skipping out of topic a bit, I noticed you're using the AECO 4-pin XLR on your silver heapdhone cable plugged into the Luxman headamp in your photos. May I ask which plating does the plug have and what do you think about its sound/ stability when plugging in?
> 
> I am using the AECO silver plated 3-pin XLR on solid silver interconnects and they are fantastic without the glare in some plated silver products. The female plugs are very loose when pluged into XLR output of my DAC, though the connection is stable. Takes some time to get used to it. Thinking about giving my silver headphone cables AECO plugs and taking out those Neutriks.


Well thank you. I also believe it's a beautiful setup. Sometimes I just look at it from across the room. Lol. I know that sounds corny but I'm a geek with this stuff.

I also have the Triode Wire Labs XLR connecting the Holo and the Luxman. Absolutely fantastic balanced interconnects, IMO. Actually my entire system is wired with Triode Wire Labs, besides the headphone cable. 
Split USB from computer to DAC. Spirit II between DAC and amp. Digital American power cord on Holo and Seven Plus on Luxman amp.

Regarding the plug, there is an ever, and I mean ever so, slight jiggle when it's connected to the Luxman. Not even an issue really.


----------



## devilboy

Also, I don't know which plating is on it. I forgot.


----------



## SlothRock

devilboy said:


> Probably not. I got mine in 17 days.
> Good luck!



That would be amazing! Fingers crossed


----------



## devilboy

I had a realization this morning that the Holo Spring 3 KTE is too sexy to be on the second shelf so I put it on top.
That's it. Just wanted to post some pics.


----------



## SlothRock

devilboy said:


> I had a realization this morning that the Holo Spring 3 KTE is too sexy to be on the second shelf so I put it on top.
> That's it. Just wanted to post some pics.



What are the isolation feet you’re using?


----------



## devilboy

SlothRock said:


> What are the isolation feet you’re using?


Isoacoustics Orea Bronze.


----------



## ARCXENOS (May 14, 2022)

devilboy said:


> I had a realization this morning that the Holo Spring 3 KTE is too sexy to be on the second shelf so I put it on top.
> That's it. Just wanted to post some pics.


 I sometimes pet the fox emblem for fun, now you can do it easier too!


----------



## SlothRock

devilboy said:


> Isoacoustics Orea Bronze.



Nice! Did you get 3 or 4? Seems like they can hold 8lbs each so figure you need at least 3 since the KTE is 20lbs


----------



## devilboy

ARCXENOS said:


> I sometimes pet the fox emblem for fun, now you can do it easier too!


That's freaking hilarious!
Brilliant.


----------



## devilboy

SlothRock said:


> Nice! Did you get 3 or 4? Seems like they can hold 8lbs each so figure you need at least 3 since the KTE is 20lbs


I'm using three. 
I also have four of the blue indigo which hold up to 16 lbs a piece. I was debating whether or not to use them. I have them left over because they were under the Luxman amp. If I put the Luxman on the isoacoustics feet, it'll be too high and the top of the chassis will hit the screw handle that holds my monitor to the top shelf.


----------



## SlothRock

devilboy said:


> I'm using three.
> I also have four of the blue indigo which hold up to 16 lbs a piece. I was debating whether or not to use them. I have them left over because they were under the Luxman amp. If I put the Luxman on the isoacoustics feet, it'll be too high and the top of the chassis will hit the screw handle that holds my monitor to the top shelf.


Thank you! This is perfect as my KTE is gonna be on my computer desk right above where my keyboard is so this will raise it up enough where I can snake the keyboard cable under it on top of the isolation benefits. Just ordered 3


----------



## devilboy

SlothRock said:


> Thank you! This is perfect as my KTE is gonna be on my computer desk right above where my keyboard is so this will raise it up enough where I can snake the keyboard cable under it on top of the isolation benefits. Just ordered 3


Ha! Fantastic!
I'm glad I could have helped in a tiny way and you should be quite pleased with your new setup. I hope it works out well for you.


----------



## Rantenti

devilboy said:


> Well thank you. I also believe it's a beautiful setup. Sometimes I just look at it from across the room. Lol. I know that sounds corny but I'm a geek with this stuff.
> 
> I also have the Triode Wire Labs XLR connecting the Holo and the Luxman. Absolutely fantastic balanced interconnects, IMO. Actually my entire system is wired with Triode Wire Labs, besides the headphone cable.
> Split USB from computer to DAC. Spirit II between DAC and amp. Digital American power cord on Holo and Seven Plus on Luxman amp.
> ...


Yes, the Triode Wire Labs cables do have a detailed yet relaxing sound, I love them a lot!

Going back to the Holo Spring 3 KTE, which input do you find sound best? Holo Audio emphasized how their USB module is galvanically isolated and indeed most May DAC users found no difference in using a DDC, meaning that the USB module is really good.

Is USB input the best among the input options (AES/ I2S etc) on the Spring 3 KTE?


----------



## devilboy

Rantenti said:


> Yes, the Triode Wire Labs cables do have a detailed yet relaxing sound, I love them a lot!
> 
> Going back to the Holo Spring 3 KTE, which input do you find sound best? Holo Audio emphasized how their USB module is galvanically isolated and indeed most May DAC users found no difference in using a DDC, meaning that the USB module is really good.
> 
> Is USB input the best among the input options (AES/ I2S etc) on the Spring 3 KTE?


I wish I could give you and answer on that. So far, I have only used the USB input. As most people are becoming aware, yes, the USB implementation is very well thought out. I'm wondering whether or not going glass optical via optical rendu and all of the parts needed for that setup, is worth it. I wish someone who knows better could chime in here.


----------



## BassicScience

devilboy said:


> I wish I could give you and answer on that. So far, I have only used the USB input. As most people are becoming aware, yes, the USB implementation is very well thought out. I'm wondering whether or not going glass optical via optical rendu and all of the parts needed for that setup, is worth it. I wish someone who knows better could chime in here.


Dude, the *ONLY *advantage of optical is galvanic isolation, and there are multiple disadvantages to it vs. USB. If the USB port has galvanic isolation, then there is literally no _rational _reason to use optical. Sure, someone can come on here and claim optical "sounds better", but you can literally find a post on Head-Fi that claims just about _anything_. OTOH, if you choose to pursue optical, it's your time and money. And you might even think it does sound better, even though it's _objectively _worse.


----------



## devilboy

BassicScience said:


> Dude, the *ONLY *advantage of optical is galvanic isolation, and there are multiple disadvantages to it vs. USB. If the USB port has galvanic isolation, then there is literally no _rational _reason to use optical. Sure, someone can come on here and claim optical "sounds better", but you can literally find a post on Head-Fi that claims just about _anything_. OTOH, if you choose to pursue optical, it's your time and money. And you might even think it does sound better, even though it's _objectively _worse.


THANK YOU for the rational, common sense feedback. I've spent far too much time and money to start going down the optical rabbit hole. Lol.


----------



## soulrider4ever

Just got the Lumin U2 mini and putting it through its paces.  It sounds better than the Auralic Aries Femto for sure. 

So USB to SU-1 to I2S just gets fatiguing - not a great option IMO. 

USB direct via the Lumin sounds better than USB direct from the Auralic, so I still think that USB vs AES input will make a difference based on the source streamer.

I preferred Coax out of the Lumin over AES from the Auralic for example.

That’s as far as I’ve gotten so far - I need more time to break down USB vs AES vs Coax from the Lumin.


----------



## BlakeT

ChJL said:


> What's the consensus on the stock power cable that comes with Spring DACs? Are you owners using that? If not which one instead? Thanks



Stealth Audio power cords are working great for me with my Spring and that is what I'm rolling with.  Kimber PK14 Palladian was also very good.


----------



## devilboy

BassicScience said:


> Dude, the *ONLY *advantage of optical is galvanic isolation, and there are multiple disadvantages to it vs. USB. If the USB port has galvanic isolation, then there is literally no _rational _reason to use optical. Sure, someone can come on here and claim optical "sounds better", but you can literally find a post on Head-Fi that claims just about _anything_. OTOH, if you choose to pursue optical, it's your time and money. And you might even think it does sound better, even though it's _objectively _worse.


I believe when Goldensound referred to the galvanic isolation on the Spring 3, he mentioned the optical isolation diodes as the means of galvanic isolation.


----------



## duranxv

I see some mention of PSU's/power conditioners and power cables in this thread.  Are there any that are actually worth it? Or is it mostly snake oil?  I gotta imagine high end DAC's and amp's already have sufficient power implementations, no?


----------



## kingoftown1

duranxv said:


> I see some mention of PSU's/power conditioners and power cables in this thread.  Are there any that are actually worth it? Or is it mostly snake oil?  I gotta imagine high end DAC's and amp's already have sufficient power implementations, no?


There will be plenty of people lining up to tell you both sides of that never-ending argument.  The best way to get your answer is to buy one (not a $30 amazon special-- the real thing) from somewhere with a good return policy and find out for yourself.


----------



## soulrider4ever

I demo’d both a PS Audio Dectet and a P5 power wave at the same time - kept the Dectet. Both of them made a difference to me for the better.  I sold the P5 mainly because when the fans kicked on it drove me crazy and defeated the purpose IMO for a listening environment. 

I will probably get a P12 one day but I still think money is spent better upstream.  I’d rather spend $4k on a preamp than a power conditioner. Just my .02c but like others say best way to find out is to just demo for yourself.  

Laws of diminishing returns definitely in effect when it comes to power conditioners, cables, etc.


----------



## soulrider4ever (May 15, 2022)

Ok Lumin U2 input initial impressions: PLL On for all.

Coaxial - For me this was one of the best outputs from the Lumin.  Very natural, lifelike presentation.  Good PRAT and just sounded really great.

AES - Tied with Coax, I couldn’t discern much if any difference between these two inputs.  Clearly the Holo PLL just does a great job at being consistent across the spdif receivers. This is my input of choice just because I have a better AES cable than Coax.

USB - This is where I really paid the most attention and would say I really enjoyed the USB from the Lumin but no matter how many times I A/B AES vs USB I kept hearing the same things.  Now if usb was all I ever heard I would be more than content, but hearing AES for me to my ears it was superior.  USB was slightly sharper sounding, slightly smaller soundstage - in these 2 areas it’s splitting hairs.  But the biggest difference for me is PRAT - USB was definitely slower.  Tonally it’s the same but the beginning transients of say a guitar via AES just sounds more accurate and that timing causes a ripple effect of a more natural / ease sounding music that increases realism. I was rooting for USB here too hoping that somehow the Auralic was what held it back. Overall I still think USB is very good, just not the best.

USB w/ iGalvanic - This was the least eventful as the audio consistently dropped off within a minute repeatedly.  Not sure what’s up with this but the Lumin usb output through this iGalvanic just didn’t get along.  Open to ideas to try and get this working.

I get that stating AES sounding superior to USB isn’t a popular opinion but in my system to my ears it just has that extra level of naturalness and realism.

With that being said - I totally concur that each system is different and everyone has different ears, so by all means use whatever input sounds best to you!

I would say the Holo has been one of those major leap forward pieces of gear and all the inputs sound great.  The Auralic to the Lumin I would say was a step up (vs leap) and the Aries will be getting listed for sale soon.

I am always of the mindset of don’t worry about what random people say on the internet and try it for yourself. Nothing can replace in home demo with your gear, equipment and ears.

However, so far I agree with the consensus about DDC as the Singer SU1 for example will be collecting dust.  But that didn’t stop me from buying a SU6, because I want to hear it for myself and come to my own conclusions. That should be here tomorrow


----------



## jerryandme

devilboy said:


> I was just curious to know as to Holo owners are getting the digital signal to their dac. Because of Goldensound's video, I decided to try my Spring 3 KTE by going directly into the USB input from my Mac. I didn't compare it any other way.
> Is anyone using an external ddc? If so, how does it compare with other inputs you may have tried?
> 
> I ask because I'm looking to upgrade my audio signal NORTH of the Holo.
> Trying to find a better solution to get the music from my network to the dac. I don't have Roon.


If you haven't heard the little iFi Zen Stream, for $500 (that includes upgraded power supply, it betters the performance of anything under 2 grand (I've had Lumin in house). I go from the USB with a Supra Excalibur USB (this cable bests the typical overpriced audioquest stuff...I do use an audioquest Niagra conditioner, I just think their cables are poor bargain compared to some boutique outfits). I also use Supra Ethernet into the Zen Stream. Try the Zen Stream. I doubt you'll think an upgrade afterwards is necessary.


----------



## Rantenti (May 15, 2022)

jerryandme said:


> If you haven't heard the little iFi Zen Stream, for $500 (that includes upgraded power supply, it betters the performance of anything under 2 grand (I've had Lumin in house). I go from the USB with a Supra Excalibur USB (this cable bests the typical overpriced audioquest stuff...I do use an audioquest Niagra conditioner, I just think their cables are poor bargain compared to some boutique outfits). I also use Supra Ethernet into the Zen Stream. Try the Zen Stream. I doubt you'll think an upgrade afterwards is necessary.



Thanks for your sharing.

May I ask how the ifi ZS is better than the LUMIN? (I am considering to buy one of them and the ZS is a bargain).

Since the Spring 3 DAC has zero MQA ability, does the ZS do all the hardware decoding and unfolding and send the PCM via USB to the DAC?

So the quality is better than Tidal software-only unfolding as in the case with the computer USB plugged directly to the Spring DAC?


----------



## chesebert

duranxv said:


> I see some mention of PSU's/power conditioners and power cables in this thread.  Are there any that are actually worth it? Or is it mostly snake oil?  I gotta imagine high end DAC's and amp's already have sufficient power implementations, no?


Yes and no. Actually the more expensive and the more resolving the gear, the greater the effect of different power cables. They all sound a bit different, just need to try a bunch and find the one that suits your taste.


----------



## jerryandme

Really probably equal in streaming function to the Lumin (we're talking the T2 with moded power supply, which has a DAC, but I also experimented with it as a streamer into other DACs and it's about 10x the Zen cost, so based on that experience, considering I only stream Qobuz via the MCconect app and don't need capabilities beyond that, I see it as a low cost/risk no brainer.


----------



## jerryandme

chesebert said:


> Yes and no. Actually the more expensive and the more resolving the gear, the greater the effect of different power cables. They all sound a bit different, just need to try a bunch and find the one that suits your taste.


The $1300 Audioquest Niagra (I'm not a fan of their cables) does what it claims in my system. It replaced a $2000 Isotek Aquarius, which I was happy with until I was offered a Niagra audition.


----------



## FooFighter (May 16, 2022)

Rantenti said:


> Thanks for your sharing.
> 
> May I ask how the ifi ZS is better than the LUMIN? (I am considering to buy one of them and the ZS is a bargain).
> 
> ...


The Zen Stream only does 2x unfolding just like Tidal itself or Roon.
While I confirm the SQ is very good I have to admit that the streaming stability is a catastrophe on all sources I have tried with breakups and complete loss of device connections on Tidal Connect, UPNP from Audirvana and lately also Roon.
The instabilities are commonly reported in the Zen Stream thread.
I wanted to love it but cannot recommend it unfortunately.
My go to streaming solution now is a dedicated industrial Atom Mini PC as NAA for HQPlayer.
Going to put Zen Stream on classifieds.


----------



## Rantenti

jerryandme said:


> The $1300 Audioquest Niagra (I'm not a fan of their cables) does what it claims in my system. It replaced a $2000 Isotek Aquarius, which I was happy with until I was offered a Niagra audition.


Good to know. Does the tight beryllium contacts scratch the prongs of your power cord plugs or do you need to use some cheap plugs to loosen it first? This became the question I always ask before I buy another AC receptacle, since I had once used some AC outlets which were stregthened by a spring system and they defaced my rhodium plated silver plugs with deep bites and scratches... sad...


----------



## koso (May 16, 2022)

devilboy said:


> I sold off my Denafrips Hermes DDC because the i2s cable I was using had RJ45 connections due to my previous DAC being a Sonnet Morpheus which only accepted rj45. I could have gotten an eye-2s cable but I wanted to rebound a little bit from the purchase of the Holo and the loss I'm taking from selling the Sonnet.


Hi Devilboy,

could you briefly describe sound quality difference between Sonnet Morpheus and Spring 3 KTE? I am just curious.

Anyway, I am very happy with my Spring 3 KTE. I have tested my Spring 3 with Denafrips Gaia and found no significant difference between sound quality of I2S via Gaia (with Siltech Classic Anniversary I2S cable) vs direct USB connection (Aurender streamer directly to USB input).
After that I have experimented with USB reclockers. First attempt: Ideon 3R Master Time USB reclocker. I was not very happy with Ideon. Maybe it is system dependent, but in my setup, it added sort of smoothness to the sound, but it was too smooth and bass was blurred. After that I have tried Innuos PhoenixUSB reclocker. And this time it was clear audible improvement! Overall sound character is not altered, but it is better almost in any area. Soundstage is deeper, highs and mids are more refined. Bass is tighter and deeper at the same time, even better (or real) timbre of acoustic instruments. But I must also mention that I use excellent USB cables. Shunyata Alpha (from Aurender to Innuos) and Stealth T-Select V3 (from Innuos to Spring 3). Especially Stealth T-Select V3 usb cable is great. Never heard anything even close to its performance.
I have also tried to remove PhoenixUSB reclocker from audio chain several times and I am sure that in my setup sound is clearly better with PhoenixUSB reclocker.
So yes, Spring 3 KTE has excellent USB input, but you can still benefit from good matched reclocker. It is not cheap solution though (PhoenixUSB + second USB cable) and therefore I recommend trying on your own setup.


----------



## devilboy

koso said:


> Hi Devilboy,
> 
> could you briefly describe sound quality difference between Sonnet Morpheus and Spring 3 KTE? I am just curious.
> 
> ...


Hello koso,

The S3KTE sounds more expansive with better separation of instruments than the Morpheus. And those instruments are more clearly defined within a three dimensional space and have more detail. Attack and speed are exceptional without sounding aggressive at the same time. It still has a natural, organic sound. I don't want to use the old cliche but I'm hearing things I haven't heard before with the S3KTE. 
It makes the Morpheus sound softer and rounder... More polite. I'm definitely getting better, more realistic, more enjoyable sound with the S3KTE all via direct USB connection.

That said, it's good to know that you were able to kick it up a notch with the Innuos. Using a USB reclocker is an option I might have to  entertain.

Currently, my USB cable is a "split" USB from Triode Wire Labs. I only went with it because my entire system is wired with TWL... XLR interconnects and power cords (Digital American and Seven Plus).

I reduced the number of components in my system and it sounded better at the same time. So I'm very happy with that. If I make any changes, it will only be north of the DAC via reclocker or USB cables or both.


----------



## Rantenti

FooFighter said:


> The Zen Stream only does 2x unfolding just like Tidal itself or Roon.
> While I confirm the SQ is very good I have to admit that the streaming stability is a catastrophe on all sources I have tried with breakups and complete loss of device connections on Tidal Connect, UPNP from Audirvana and lately also Roon.
> The instabilities are commonly reported in the Zen Stream thread.
> I wanted to love it but cannot recommend it unfortunately.
> ...


Thanks. Just checked the ifi ZS official page. It says it's MQA passthrough only. Maybe it's a license matter? I understand this as the ZS receives and pass the MQA masters data to the DAC without doing anything. If the DAC has MQA rendering ability, then the first unfold should be done by the Tidal App and then the data is sent to the DAC for rendering. If the DAC has zero MQA ability like the Holo Spring, then the Tidal app will do everything and give the ifi ZS a fully unwrapped analogue signal and it is sent to the Spring DAC.

I admit I have VERY little understanding about MQA, but if I am correct above, the only advantage of using an ifi ZS instead of my phone to send Tidal music to the Holo Spring 3 is the USB Active Noise Cancelling / SPDIF Purifier function of the ZS output.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I do wish the ZS does a little more than this, and less of the stability issues other users described, since it could be a very promising product at its price tag.


----------



## FooFighter (May 16, 2022)

Rantenti said:


> Thanks. Just checked the ifi ZS official page. It says it's MQA passthrough only. Maybe it's a license matter? I understand this as the ZS receives and pass the MQA masters data to the DAC without doing anything. If the DAC has MQA rendering ability, then the first unfold should be done by the Tidal App and then the data is sent to the DAC for rendering. If the DAC has zero MQA ability like the Holo Spring, then the Tidal app will do everything and give the ifi ZS a fully unwrapped analogue signal and it is sent to the Spring DAC.
> 
> I admit I have VERY little understanding about MQA, but if I am correct above, the only advantage of using an ifi ZS instead of my phone to send Tidal music to the Holo Spring 3 is the USB Active Noise Cancelling / SPDIF Purifier function of the ZS output.
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong. I do wish the ZS does a little more than this, and less of the stability issues other users described, since it could be a very promising product at its price tag.


The discussion about Streamer vs direct phone / tablet is I think a general one as most streamers have some kind of noise filtering / isolation tech built-in.
The general recommendation is to have also a small software footprint with as minimum services running to accomplish the streaming task as possible.
As I stated I have followed the advice about separating source and DAC physically and using some HQPlayer recommended mini PC (UP Gateway) as a Streamer (NAA) which isn't costing more than the Zen Stream but is binding me to HQPlayer as a streaming server software whereas Zen Stream (and other similar PI based streamers) are offering a wide variety of streaming services such as Tidal, DLNA, NAA, UPNP and Roon.
My solution is sounding very good to my ears, I have a large tweaking variety with many PCM and DSD filters with up to 1,5Mhz upsampling rate for the Holo Audio DACs and it is running stable.


----------



## Rantenti (May 16, 2022)

I have never used a mini pc before but I'm interested. Looking at the Atom mini pcs and yes they are really cost effective. I wonder if there is some kind of wireless (like Bluetooth) touch screen that I can put on my lap to control the mini pc from my sofa while the Atom mini PC sits on the hifi rack?

Sorry for my ignorance but I'm completely new to streaming. Been reading and catching up for a few days but the learning curve is steep.


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## FooFighter (May 16, 2022)

Rantenti said:


> I have never used a mini pc before but I'm interested. Looking at the Atom mini pcs and yes they are really cost effective. I wonder if there is some kind of wireless touch screen that I can put on my lap to control the mini pc from my sofa while the Atom mini PC sits on the hifi rack?
> 
> Sorry for my ignorance but I'm completely new to streaming. Been reading and catching up for a few days.


The point is that the Streamer, no matter if it is a mini pc or PI or dedicated Hifi streamer is connected to your DAC and connected to your network via Ethernet.
Depending on the streaming software solution you control the playback from your laptop, phone, tablet using the dedicated software frontend, e.g Roon, Audirvana, etc


----------



## chesebert (May 17, 2022)

Rantenti said:


> I have never used a mini pc before but I'm interested. Looking at the Atom mini pcs and yes they are really cost effective. I wonder if there is some kind of wireless (like Bluetooth) touch screen that I can put on my lap to control the mini pc from my sofa while the Atom mini PC sits on the hifi rack?
> 
> Sorry for my ignorance but I'm completely new to streaming. Been reading and catching up for a few days but the learning curve is steep.


Linn streamer (with integrated DAC and preamp function) is perfect for your use case. There is a Linn dealer in Central and they can help you set up your NAS (where you store your music) and Linn with control software on iPhone/iPad/PC/Mac. All you need to do is connect Linn to your amp and you are done.


----------



## Rantenti (May 17, 2022)

Finally got my hands on the Holo Spring 3 KTE! My first thought when the music flowed out was: Why hadn't I got it earlier?!
Major step up already right out of the box.

Now comes the HQPlayer settings...
I've read elsewhere suggesting PCM upsampling to 1.536M, sinc-L filters, LNS15 noise shaper

Are there other good settings I could also try out?


----------



## FooFighter

Rantenti said:


> Finally got my hands on the Holo Spring 3 KTE! My first thought when the music flowed out was: Why hadn't I got it earlier?!
> Major step up already right out of the box.
> 
> Now comes the HQPlayer settings...
> ...


guess it really depends on your headphones, amp and music taste and signature taste.
Your mentioned settings are a good starting point.
Generally I feel DSD is smoother more analogue but less dynamic (which fits to the technical specs of DSD mode of Holo Audio), PCM upsampling is more technical detailed and dynamic.

I am currently using this PCM filter for my Susvaras most of the time plus applying a PEQ, generally I want often more spice on the Susvaras on the other hand I tend to tame the Phi TC, so this can mean different use cases mean different filters (and potentially PEQ)


----------



## FooFighter

Anyone else encountered sudden random static noise on USB cables?
I've been using a Cardas Clear USB Speed cable which I bought used before without any issues for 5 months and now that cable started showing such issues.
Another Audioquest Carbon USB cable is dead silent (though the Cardas Clear USB Speed is supposed to be the superior cable).
Cannot see any signs of physical defects on the ports whatsoever...


----------



## chesebert (May 18, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> Anyone else encountered sudden random static noise on USB cables?
> I've been using a Cardas Clear USB Speed cable which I bought used before without any issues for 5 months and now that cable started showing such issues.
> Another Audioquest Carbon USB cable is dead silent (though the Cardas Clear USB Speed is supposed to be the superior cable).
> Cannot see any signs of physical defects on the ports whatsoever...


Just send it back for inspection/repair. Probably will not charge you anything except for shipping.

Edit: I just sent my Cardas reference power cord back and they didn’t charge me for the repair, just shipping.


----------



## spacecase25 (May 18, 2022)

Rantenti said:


> Finally got my hands on the Holo Spring 3 KTE! My first thought when the music flowed out was: Why hadn't I got it earlier?!
> Major step up already right out of the box.
> 
> Now comes the HQPlayer settings...
> ...


Definitely give NOS a serious try, especially after the dac has broken in (or your ears have become familiar with it, whichever you buy into).

I find that DSD512+ with the gauss family of filters sounds best.  I dont have a machine powerful enough to run EC modulators, but they probably sound quite nice. I use ASDM7+512fs (i might be getting some of those letters wrong).

Ive has a spring 3 for about 6 months now and primarily dont use hqplayer anymore. There’s trade offs: no apodizing filter, no filter at all, roll off from 10k to -3db at 20k. But, the background being an absolute void, crisp attack without ringing, incredible layering and detail… you can feel the resonant frequencies of a bass string, even in a busy mix, for example. (Some filters are more than -3db down at 20khz anyway, non-monotonal artifacts are below the noise floor of my preamp, human hearing this that, and so on).  High res sources mitigate all of these issues… hopefully they’re not just redbook upsamples. 



DSD comes close, but ive been very happy with this DAC run as-is.


----------



## SlothRock

How is support generally with Holo Audio? I ordered my KTE last Saturday and immediately realized I made an error in typing my address and emailed right away to get it corrected. Haven’t heard a peep but want to make this gets corrected so it doesn’t get sent to some random address


----------



## tawmizzzz

SlothRock said:


> How is support generally with Holo Audio? I ordered my KTE last Saturday and immediately realized I made an error in typing my address and emailed right away to get it corrected. Haven’t heard a peep but want to make this gets corrected so it doesn’t get sent to some random address


Not going to lie, I am not a huge fan of Kitsune and his customer service. (Not sure if that’s where you bought from). Slow response rates and I know several Holo audio owners who also had unpleasant experiences with him. 

If you bought from the US KitsuneHifi, he will get back to you in 5-7 days on average from my and others experiences


----------



## SlothRock

Ok thank you - disappointing to hear for a product this expensive but as long as I have a sense of what to expect response wise then that helps a bit. Fingers crossed I get something end of week or early next based off that timeframe


----------



## jerryandme

If I could order again, I'd go through Magna HiFi, as opposed to Kitsune. You get the same price ordering stateside. Magna is a more substantial outfit and appears to be much more responsive to customers.


----------



## jerryandme

Issue:

I am considering upgrading the fuse to Synergistic Purple, but before doing so I figured I'd open up the unit to see where the fuse is, as I can't find it on any internal photos. I got all but one the necessary Allen screws out successfully, but the final one is stripped (it arrived that way). Not sure how or if I should address this with Kitsune. I'm not a tool geek or anything. If somebody has a suggestion on how I can get a stripped Allen screw to move, please shoot me an email matt.p.joy@gmail.com

Thanks, Matt


----------



## SlothRock

jerryandme said:


> If I could order again, I'd go through Magna HiFi, as opposed to Kitsune. You get the same price ordering stateside. Magna is a more substantial outfit and appears to be much more responsive to customers.


Looks like Magnan Hifi is actually substantially more expensive living in the US? Looking like it’s €3.379 for the non pre amp version and ordering direct from Kitsune was $3098. With the conversion rates that difference is pretty wide surprisingly


----------



## lsantista (May 19, 2022)

Living in South America, I emailed all three to enquiry on price, shipping rates/time, unit voltage and so on. MagnaHifi and Wildism audio in HK both replied within minutes, Kitsune never did. I bought my Spring 3 KTE with Wildism and everything was fast and easy, even a little support I needed after re-updating FW


----------



## lsantista

SlothRock said:


> Looks like Magnan Hifi is actually substantially more expensive living in the US? Looking like it’s €3.379 for the non pre amp version and ordering direct from Kitsune was $3098. With the conversion rates that difference is pretty wide surprisingly


living outside EU you will get VAT rebate. Its substantial, I believe some 17%, but please double check on the procedure and details. Also the FX rate is quite favorable recently, though today the Euro is indeed shooting up almost 1.5%! and also make explicit you need a 110v version if that's really your case


----------



## Zachik

SlothRock said:


> How is support generally with Holo Audio? I ordered my KTE last Saturday and immediately realized I made an error in typing my address and emailed right away to get it corrected. Haven’t heard a peep but want to make this gets corrected so it doesn’t get sent to some random address


Usually, once you have a tracking # from FedEx / UPS / DHL - you can redirect your package. Not sure if they would let you "fix" the address, but will definitely let you redirect to a local FedEx / UPS / DHL pickup location.


----------



## Rantenti

jerryandme said:


> Issue:
> 
> I am considering upgrading the fuse to Synergistic Purple, but before doing so I figured I'd open up the unit to see where the fuse is, as I can't find it on any internal photos. I got all but one the necessary Allen screws out successfully, but the final one is stripped (it arrived that way). Not sure how or if I should address this with Kitsune. I'm not a tool geek or anything. If somebody has a suggestion on how I can get a stripped Allen screw to move, please shoot me an email matt.p.joy@gmail.com
> 
> Thanks, Matt


Hi, Matt, there is no need to open the chassis. Look at the back of the machine where the IEC outlet is, the fuse box is adjacent to the outlet. Pry open the fuse box and a drawer with the fuse will appear allowing you to take out or change the fuse easily.


----------



## mudguardiain

lsantista said:


> Living in South America, I emailed all three to enquiry on price, shipping rates/time, unit voltage and so on. MagnaHifi and Wildism audio in HK both replied within minutes, Kitsune never did. I bought my Spring 3 KTE with them and everything was fast and easy, even a little support I needed after re-updating FW


I purchased from Magna & their customer service is excellent, very helpful & very quick responses.


----------



## lsantista

mudguardiain said:


> I purchased from Magna & their customer service is excellent, very helpful & very quick responses.


Just noted I originally wrote "bought my spring with them" when I had last refered to Kitsune. In fact I purchased from Wildism and all was smooth as I assume it would have been with Magna


----------



## hakunamakaka

chesebert said:


> Linn streamer (with integrated DAC and preamp function) is perfect for your use case. There is a Linn dealer in Central and they can help you set up your NAS (where you store your music) and Linn with control software on iPhone/iPad/PC/Mac. All you need to do is connect Linn to your amp and you are done.


Can you confirm that Linn Klimax DS/1 has an internal DAC ? In that case I mighr start selling my desktop equipment


----------



## BassicScience

Zachik said:


> Usually, once you have a tracking # from FedEx / UPS / DHL - you can redirect your package. Not sure if they would let you "fix" the address, but will definitely let you redirect to a local FedEx / UPS / DHL pickup location.


I believe the problem is that you'll have to show an ID with the original destination address when you do the pickup. If it's simply a transposed digit or the like, they might accept it.

Regarding Kitsune customer service, I sent them a simple warranty question via email two weeks ago, and never received a response (other than an acknowledgement that they received my email). It literally would have taken them 30 seconds to respond. Lame.


----------



## jerryandme

SlothRock said:


> Looks like Magnan Hifi is actually substantially more expensive living in the US? Looking like it’s €3.379 for the non pre amp version and ordering direct from Kitsune was $3098. With the conversion rates that difference is pretty wide surprisingly


You don't pay the VAT...if you go through most of the order process, inputting your US address, you should see a final price that is about the same as Kitsune, from what I remember.


----------



## chesebert (May 20, 2022)

hakunamakaka said:


> Can you confirm that Linn Klimax DS/1 has an internal DAC ? In that case I mighr start selling my desktop equipment


Confirmed. It also comes with a digital volume control and a simple parametric EQ via the web interface.

Caveat: there is no digital input unless you get the DSM version. So it would be Klimax DSM


----------



## sparkylarky

SlothRock said:


> How is support generally with Holo Audio? I ordered my KTE last Saturday and immediately realized I made an error in typing my address and emailed right away to get it corrected. Haven’t heard a peep but want to make this gets corrected so it doesn’t get sent to some random address


In Europe we have Magna Hifi (Netherlands) as the main distributor and they are super


mudguardiain said:


> I purchased from Magna & their customer service is excellent, very helpful & very quick responses.


I live in Europe and bought from Magna and they are very responsive and their service is excellent.


----------



## soulrider4ever

Finally got around to putting the Singxer SU-6 through it's paces.  

First I tried Auralic Aries > USB to SU-6 > I2S and was doing back and forth A/B comparing the Lumin U2 direct via AES.

I found that the AES via the Lumin was superior to using the SU-6 from the Aries.  It just had increased clarity and again superior PRAT.  However it was way closer than it used to be, especially over the SU-1.  The difference between SU-1 and SU-6 is clearly significant.  

Things got interesting moving the SU-6 over to the USB out of the Lumin.

Super tight race and I went back and forth between AES / I2S more times than any one probably ever should.  Each time declaring each side the 'winner' LOL - just about a wash I'd say, but I do think on some tracks I get a smidge more soundstage out of I2S than AES.  This could be placebo admittedly, but I kept coming back to AES seeming to have a scalpel knife more image focus, but I2S having that scalpel more staging & spatial separation.  But damn if I can declare a 'winner' between these 2.  

Interesting to note that going from the Aries Femto via USB to Lumin USB to the SU-6 the sound was better out of the SU-6 via Lumin.  In my mind the Su-6 should have been an equalizer for the source USB.  I guess that just goes to show you that source is king ultimately.  Now I know why people will drop $10k on a Rocknawave DreamNET, etc.  

The real eye opener for me though was when I decided to give the "tired old / clockless" NOS DAC in my RWA a go via SU-6.  This DAC I've never really been able to enjoy as more than a 'backup' DAC as it was basically muddled, lack details, fatiguing - overall just meh - but once the SU-6 was in play it actually went almost toe to toe with the Spring DAC! 

Sure the Spring was still clearer and provided some more microdetail but prior to the SU-6 feeding the RWA it was a HUGE difference, basically a 'why bother', not in the same league, etc  - The SU-6 really closed the gap for sure. All the detail that I thought the RWA DAC just couldn't provide was now just there and in spades.  The SU-6 has got me excited to try out some more DAC's down the line for sure!

I remember reading about how someone sold their Holo May for a Chord Qutest fed by an SU-6 - I thought they must be deaf, but after hearing how much the SU-6 woke up my RWA - now I'd have to compare for myself!

On a side note - I am upgrading my preamp to a Vinnie Rossi LIO DHT(!) and have listed my RWA for sale here - pretty flexible with the pricing.  I am super pumped about this, my wallet not so much!


----------



## devilboy

"I remember reading about how someone sold their Holo May for a Chord Qutest fed by an SU-6 - I thought they must be deaf, but after hearing how much the SU-6 woke up my RWA - now I'd have to compare for myself!"

You'll find 1000 and 1 posts about people selling X for Y. Doesn't mean anything unless you hear it for yourself.


----------



## SlothRock

Just an update on my support ticket with Kitsune to update my mailing address: they got back to me and the address has been updated. They were right in line with their 7-10 business day response time that is on their website. I know that is a longer response time than most but as long as the expectation is set and they follow through with their quoted response times then I am a happy enough camper . Now just need to wait for that shipping notification


----------



## Delta9K

Not making any excuses, but Tim (Kitsune HiFi aka Holo Audio USA) is pretty much a one man show even down to support. I've spoken with him at length over the phone in the past. My take-away from that was that he's a genuine audiophile and passionate about what he does.


----------



## cinisi

I'm in the position to get a Holo Spring Level 3 KTE at a decent price, and am currently running a Denafrips Ares II.
I'm wondering if anyone has ever compared the original Holo Spring level 3 KTE with the newest Holo Spring 3 KTE.
Is the latest version much more advanced, or would the Holo Spring level 3 KTE (1st iteration) still be a decent upgrade over my current Denafrips Ares II?


----------



## devilboy

What's the jump to mkii? Improved USB board or something else?


----------



## Marutks

cinisi said:


> I'm wondering if anyone has ever compared the original Holo Spring level 3 KTE with the newest Holo Spring 3 KTE.



There is a video on YouTube where they do it.   He said Spring 3 is better.


----------



## cinisi

Thanks, I would imagine it's better, just not sure "how much" better it is.
Is the Holo Spring (1st iteration) level 3 KTE still a viable DAC right now?
Compared to my current Ares II?


----------



## soulrider4ever

cinisi said:


> Thanks, I would imagine it's better, just not sure "how much" better it is.
> Is the Holo Spring (1st iteration) level 3 KTE still a viable DAC right now?
> Compared to my current Ares II?


I think so. I had Spring 1 L2 and loved it. Tonally it is similar just less clarity and smaller soundstage but still I could have kept the spring 1 for a long time.  I’d imagine if you have a high-end preamp ($4K+) and maybe a SU-6 it would close the gap even more.


----------



## tawmizzzz

Delta9K said:


> Not making any excuses, but Tim (Kitsune HiFi aka Holo Audio USA) is pretty much a one man show even down to support. I've spoken with him at length over the phone in the past. My take-away from that was that he's a genuine audiophile and passionate about what he does.


I get that, but hiring another passionate and knowledgable representative to handle simple asks/requests/questions would likely do the business more favors than harm, even if margins are supposedly tight. Proper customer service is what continuously brings back customers. Just my 2cents.


----------



## SlothRock

Delete


----------



## DavidParis

Hello all,
I too am looking to decide between a Pontus II and a Holo Spring 3. Leaning a bit toward the Holo, but I have yet to be able to determine which of the two would be more adapted to fast-paced rock and EDM music. Any ideas/experience/feedback on this? The Holo is often categorized as "laid back"... which not what I need with a McIntosh MA352 which is slow as molasses already. Too bad home demos of these units are virtually impossible. Would definitely appreciate your thoughts. Brgds.


----------



## soulrider4ever

I would imagine it’s the preamp portion of your integrated that is slow so you should be tube rolling to a set of faster tubes if possible to start.  

It can be considered a laid back dac but it can certainly still rock with plenty of speed.  Organic sound and realism are the the springs strong suite.  I’m sure it would sound sublime in the MA352 but finding a faster tube would probably be a good idea with any DAC for your genre of music preference.


----------



## DavidParis

soulrider4ever said:


> I would imagine it’s the preamp portion of your integrated that is slow so you should be tube rolling to a set of faster tubes if possible to start.
> 
> It can be considered a laid back dac but it can certainly still rock with plenty of speed.  Organic sound and realism are the the springs strong suite.  I’m sure it would sound sublime in the MA352 but finding a faster tube would probably be a good idea with any DAC for your genre of music preference.


Thanks for the comment on the DAC. The MA352, which isn't the subject here, is a poorly designed, conceived, engineered amplifier without autoformers that is really a marketing product. Please don't ask how I unfortunately ended up with it...It comes with the standard rebranded JJs and they are less than ideal. A new quartet of Gold Lions are a bit smoother and coherent but still too bright on top. I can just barely tolerate a full set of NOS Telefunkens that are currently running now, still too bright bit they sound best for the moment. Since source is a Naim ND5XS2 with a BB PCM 2791A chipset, I have been thinking that either the Pontus II or the Spring 3 might atleast smooth out the top end. Thanks again for your reply.


----------



## soulrider4ever

Well considering the Naim is known for its PRAT and you still feel your setup is bright and slow, the Spring 3 would definitely help the brightness, but the elephant in the room is definitely your integrated - sounds to me like that getting replaced might be more beneficial.  

I’m actually looking for a ND5XS2 for streaming duties - how do you like the app? I had a Lumin U2 mini for a week because for me the app was just awful despite the great sound quality. I’m not a Roon user so probably my own fault ha!

I love the Naim power amplifier - really smoking fast transients. But I’m not a Naim preamp user - just feel tubes make for the best sound in a preamp stage.

Anyway back on topic - the spring dac is phenomenal and will bring improvement no matter the rest of the ancillaries.


----------



## DavidParis (May 26, 2022)

soulrider4ever said:


> Well considering the Naim is known for its PRAT and you still feel your setup is bright and slow, the Spring 3 would definitely help the brightness, but the elephant in the room is definitely your integrated - sounds to me like that getting replaced might be more beneficial.
> 
> I’m actually looking for a ND5XS2 for streaming duties - how do you like the app? I had a Lumin U2 mini for a week because for me the app was just awful despite the great sound quality. I’m not a Roon user so probably my own fault ha!
> 
> ...


The Naim streamer/DAC is rock solid and dependable. I only use it wired and the app is good. When Roon goes goofy and loses it entirely, which is quite often, the Naim app is dependable and sounds perhaps better, it definitely isn't perfect and there are a fewer minor quibbles I'd like to see improved but reliability, SQ and Tidal/Qobuz integration are excellent. Be aware the the only digital output (to an external DAC for example) is coaxial via BNC connector. No USB or AES outputs. Other than that, an excellent streamer/DAC. I also enjoyed my time with Naim amplification and probably should've stayed there with the Focal Sopras. Brgds.


----------



## GoldenOne

cinisi said:


> I'm wondering if anyone has ever compared the original Holo Spring level 3 KTE with the newest Holo Spring 3 KTE.


I've not tried the original Spring, but did compare the Spring 2 to Spring 3 and was VERY surprised at the jump.

The jump from Spring 2 to Spring 3 is much bigger than Spring 3 to May.
Not just in performance, but overall signature.

The Spring 2 sounds quite soft and warm in comparison to the Spring 3


----------



## jerryandme

Rantenti said:


> Hi, Matt, there is no need to open the chassis. Look at the back of the machine where the IEC outlet is, the fuse box is adjacent to the outlet. Pry open the fuse box and a drawer with the fuse will appear allowing you to take out or change the fuse easily.


Awesome. Thank you.


----------



## mine (May 27, 2022)

Tried  to read most of the contributions here. Found similar posts in other fora concerning the
unlocking problem with I2S.
As my favorite input is   ( *I2S* ) 
I had the opinion to do my Spring 3 KTE a favour .
So I bought a modern streamer with  I2S
https://www.silent-angel-audio.com/munich-m1t
Its a modern Pi 4 B / 4 GB streamer with some enhancements and additional linear PSU.
And soon I ran into major problems :
With I2S out   :  Spring needs  10 +14 seconds to lock  ....and the same if you pause. SQ is extreme good.
Contacting Holo audio support suggested to disable PLL.  (....."there is  too much noise coming from the Pi4B "  .)

Mhhh.... not my option , as I need PLL for my S/PDif input (TV- monitor) and I dont want to loose PLL , something Holo advertises as worldclass.

Contacting Importer : He means his " Mano ultra streamer " has no problem with I2S. But this device as well is based on the
RasPi , and based even on the old version 3B .
Mhhh..
What to do ?  I know that USB is a good option with Spring , but obviously my loudspeakers (active Neumann KH-310 with 2 x KH 750 mono bass array ) seem to like I2S more.
Are there streamers which do not show this behaviour with Spring KTE ? Contacted the "Mercury" project based on PI 4 B but no answer yet .
Any help really appreciated.

Best
as
​
​


----------



## kingoftown1

I don't know about streamers, but my PC into su6 doesn't exhibit this behavior over i2s. Just the standard 2-3 seconds for the pll to lock when starting or changing sample rates


----------



## cinisi

So as I also posted in the classifieds, due to unforeseen repairs to my wife's car I unfortunately had to back out of the Holo Spring deal I found here locally. So if anyone reading this thread is located in Europe and is thinking about selling their Holo DAC, send me a PM. My budget is probably not sufficient for the latest iteration (Spring 3). I just can't get this DAC out of my mind lol.


----------



## DavidParis

cinisi said:


> So as I also posted in the classifieds, due to unforeseen repairs to my wife's car I unfortunately had to back out of the Holo Spring deal I found here locally. So if anyone reading this thread is located in Europe and is thinking about selling their Holo DAC, send me a PM. My budget is probably not sufficient for the latest iteration (Spring 3). I just can't get this DAC out of my mind lol.


Hi,
Why are you motivated to buy it? Have you heard it in your system? 
Thanks.


----------



## cinisi

DavidParis said:


> Hi,
> Why are you motivated to buy it? Have you heard it in your system?
> Thanks.


I heard the Spring 3 KTE but that is over budget. There was a good deal here for an earlier version Spring which was mine until I had to back out of it. Now I'm itching to have a Spring in my system (currently running an Ares II which is fine as well, but recently upgraded my amp and looking to further upgrade my chain).


----------



## DavidParis

cinisi said:


> I heard the Spring 3 KTE but that is over budget. There was a good deal here for an earlier version Spring which was mine until I had to back out of it. Now I'm itching to have a Spring in my system (currently running an Ares II which is fine as well, but recently upgraded my amp and looking to further upgrade my chain).


Thanks. I was debating between Denafrips Pontus II and the Spring 3 but since it's impossible to hear them in my system, I'm pretty much decided to abandon the entire idea.


----------



## SlothRock

Just got what I believe is my tracking info for my Spring 3 KTE! Text from DHL saying a package shipping from HK. Should arrive Friday! This is gonna be a fun week - Spring 3 and Ferrum OOR + Hypsos coming in at the same time. Musical heaven weekend incoming


----------



## DavidWMB

koso said:


> Hi all. You must wait little bit more for my impressions and Spring 3 KTE / Venus II comparison.
> I had some technical issues with Spring 3, which I had to solve first, so actual burn-in period started just yesterday. Here is a short recap of what happened.
> 
> After my unit arrived, I noticed two issues.
> ...


Insofar as the hum issue is concerned, I had the same problem with the Holo Audio Spring and May KTE DAC. It bothered me no end, so I sold the May KTE; the Spring was on loan. I have similar problems with the Jay's Audio CDT2-MK3 cd transport, another Chinese product, and I'm reliably led to believe that the Denafrips presents similar difficulties. I'm thus put off Chinese so-called high-end brands. Incidentally, the May KTE DAC had another latent defect on the circuit which caused thumping on my speakers. So they had to replace the unit with a new May KTE, but the humming was the same. Given the price of the May KTE, I expected better. The American Kitsune website speaks of this DAC as an end-game DAC. Well, that very quickly turned out not to be the case at all! My new DAC does not present any of these anomalies. I will most likely be selling the Jay's Audio too, and get a matching cd transport to my DAC.


----------



## koso

DavidWMB said:


> Insofar as the hum issue is concerned, I had the same problem with the Holo Audio Spring and May KTE DAC. It bothered me no end, so I sold the May KTE; the Spring was on loan. I have similar problems with the Jay's Audio CDT2-MK3 cd transport, another Chinese product, and I'm reliably led to believe that the Denafrips presents similar difficulties. I'm thus put off Chinese so-called high-end brands. Incidentally, the May KTE DAC had another latent defect on the circuit which caused thumping on my speakers. So they had to replace the unit with a new May KTE, but the humming was the same. Given the price of the May KTE, I expected better. The American Kitsune website speaks of this DAC as an end-game DAC. Well, that very quickly turned out not to be the case at all! My new DAC does not present any of these anomalies. I will most likely be selling the Jay's Audio too, and get a matching cd transport to my DAC.


Such basic problems should not really occur in this price category. Not in Spring 3 range and definitely not in May range!
Ironically, the manufacturer claims that their KTE models of DACs are using "ultra premium transformer"...
My Sring 3 KTE has been replaced for a new unit and fortunately it doesn't have a hum problem. Holo Audio should probably think about improvements in quality control. I know two more cases of Holo DAC users (among my nearby HiFi friends) that had to return their units to the distributor for repair/replacement due to serious failures (one Spring 3 KTE and one May KTE). It's a shame, because otherwise these dacs are sounding excellent.
I personally cannot complain about the EU distributor, everything went quickly and without any problems. I even had free two-way postage. But this, of course, is up to the manufacturer to ensure that such cases occur as little as possible.

Anyway, can you tell us which DAC do you have now?


----------



## SlothRock

koso said:


> Such basic problems should not really occur in this price category. Not in Spring 3 range and definitely not in May range!
> Ironically, the manufacturer claims that their KTE models of DACs are using "ultra premium transformer"...
> My Sring 3 KTE has been replaced for a new unit and fortunately it doesn't have a hum problem. Holo Audio should probably think about improvements in quality control. I know two more cases of Holo DAC users (among my nearby HiFi friends) that had to return their units to the distributor for repair/replacement due to serious failures (one Spring 3 KTE and one May KTE). It's a shame, because otherwise these dacs are sounding excellent.
> I personally cannot complain about the EU distributor, everything went quickly and without any problems. I even had free two-way postage. But this, of course, is up to the manufacturer to ensure that such cases occur as little as possible.
> ...



Seems like your problems were related to the launch batch of Spring 3's since this seemed to have happened early October 2021. Not sure if those other folks you know are having QC issues on new Spring 3's and May's as of today but any launch of a new tech product unfortunately will be prone to more potential bugs. Glad to see it seems like they've resolved these early issues as of today and you got the support you need - obviously at this price point any issue is a concern.


----------



## mine (Jun 2, 2022)

If this hum would be the only problem with the Holo Spring 3 I would be glad. Its the same hum here and they know it for months.  And has been discussed before in the early days of May.
This was my first adventure after 20 years diving from the world of audio broadcast - equipment (mainly RME-Neumann - EMT -Studer)  into the world of audiophile Hi-Fi with all the payed YouTubers , forum-influencers - hypocrites , esoteric devices , snakeoil and cablevoodoo etc.
And my last one for sure
Sorry - not my world

Best
as


----------



## McPh1st0

I am also having this transformer hum (Spring 3 lvl 1 - bought mid April from Magna Hifi). The issue was solved with the help of a DC blocker from ATL (https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/fully-assembled-devices/dc-blocker-trap-filter-assembled-in-case/).
I agree that this should not happen in this price range. Otherwise the DAC is great.
PS: the Pontus 2 was hum-free...but don't sound as good...


----------



## SlothRock

Looks like I need to pick this up in anticipation of my Spring 3 arrival :-/. Fingers crossed I won't be dealing with the hum tho


----------



## koso

SlothRock said:


> Looks like I need to pick this up in anticipation of my Spring 3 arrival :-/. Fingers crossed I won't be dealing with the hum tho


I also believe that your device will be ok.
But with that hum, it's a little more complicated. Sometimes it is a problem of the DC offset in your power line and that can be easily solved by decent DC blocker. But there are also cases that hum is caused by a faulty transformer. That was also my case. I have already had very good dc blocker (Isotek Syncro Uni) and it didn't help. They had to replace whole device. 
But anyway, don't worry, I hope you won't need any of this 
Let us know.


----------



## eee1111

transformer hum is an issue with holo dacs

if you look for a electricity cleaner device DC cleaner it can stop the hum. I was told they use a HUGE TRANSFORMER. Whatever.


----------



## kingoftown1

Fwiw I've never had any issues with my spring 3 l2


----------



## BlakeT (Jun 2, 2022)

I haven't had any hum issues.  I am very happy with the sound quality of my Spring 3 KTE- very comparable to my Venus 2, just subtle differences.  One is not really better than the other.


----------



## mine (Jun 2, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> Looks like I need to pick this up in anticipation of my Spring 3 arrival :-/. Fingers crossed I won't be dealing with the hum tho





BlakeT said:


> My Spring 3 will randomly lose lock on the source and music just stops playing.  It is solved every time by powering the source on and off, or powering the Spring 3 on and off. I haven't had any hum issues.  I am very happy with the sound quality of my Spring 3 KTE- very comparable to my Venus 2, just subtle differences.  One is not really better than the other.


Buying additional DC blockers (are there audiophile ones > 500 $ ?  just kidding )  for the buzzing and humming PSU of a 3000 - 5000 $ DAC ? Disabling PLL as a workaround for a flawed I2S input ? Serious problems with locking sources , even with outher inputs ?


----------



## sparkylarky

mine said:


> Buying additional DC blockers (are there audiophile ones > 500 $ ?  just kidding )  for the buzzing and humming PSU of a 3000 - 5000 $ DAC ? Disabling PLL as a workaround for a flawed I2S input ? Serious problems with locking sources , even with outher inputs ?   Again, not my world.


I have never experienced any of the issues you people are describing in the last few posts.
No hum, no locking issues, etc.
I bought my Spring 3 KTE two months ago from Magna.


----------



## mine

Thanks , me too , one month ago .


----------



## SlothRock

How is it not your world if you have one?


----------



## kingoftown1

Always weird seeing a sudden string of negative posts from people you don't recognize.


----------



## mine

Oh, yes ,urgently time to leave this Reality distorsion field. Bye


----------



## SlothRock

kingoftown1 said:


> Always weird seeing a sudden string of negative posts from people you don't recognize.


Agreed - I’ve been reading this thread for awhile before pulling the trigger, not seeing anything negative, then all of a sudden we’re talking about issues from a post back in October 2021 and go off on a negative tangent.


----------



## SlothRock (Jun 2, 2022)

Well well well! Look what arrived a day early


----------



## soulrider4ever

I’m sure you think it sounds so good already, just wait 6 months when she finally really opens up.


----------



## SlothRock (Jun 2, 2022)

Need many, many more hours here before I can give any kind of sound impression but my first 30 minute impressions are:

1. The USB on the KTE really does everything it's claimed. My Euforia was picking up plenty of noise from my computer through my Bifrost 2 and it is now DEAD quiet. Impressive.
2. Hearing micro details that I feel like I could never hear with the Bifrost 2. Like - what? REALLY? These were always there?!
3. I can't get this smile off of my face 

@soulrider - I can only imagine man! I've heard the Spring 3 is "soft" at first until you hit 200+ hours and if this is the "worst" that it's gonna sound then I can only imagine in a few months when it's already broken in!

Also - no humming, no wonkiness, perfectly silent and working great thus far


----------



## sparkylarky

SlothRock said:


> Need many, many more hours here before I can give any kind of sound impression but my first 30 minute impressions are:
> 
> 1. The USB on the KTE really does everything it's claimed. My Euforia was picking up plenty of noise from my computer through my Bifrost 2 and it is now DEAD quiet. Impressive.
> 2. Hearing micro details that I feel like I could never hear with the Bifrost 2. Like - what? REALLY? These were always there?!
> ...


Congrats!
Very similar first impressions and thoughts to mine


----------



## BlakeT (Jun 3, 2022)

WRT the source locking issue I noted earlier in this thread, I finally had time to diagnose things and I was able to determine the issue is definitely with an old model MacBook Pro I had been using.   My Spring 3 is locking and working perfectly with my Melco server, and also with a PC and a newer MacBook Pro as different sources, and also working with two different model Denafrips DDC's inserted in the chain.

My Spring 3 is performing perfectly and the locking issue was not the fault of my Spring 3, so my earlier post has been edited.


----------



## SlothRock (Jun 4, 2022)

Family pic . Happy Saturday y'all!


----------



## Nicolas Yance

SlothRock said:


> Family pic . Happy Saturday y'all!


Is that a ZMF cable?


----------



## SlothRock

Nicolas Yance said:


> Is that a ZMF cable?


Nah - Viking Weave Raido cables . Awesome people, awesome cables, great price. Highly recommended


----------



## mfgillia

SlothRock said:


> Family pic . Happy Saturday y'all!


This must be simply the best looking desk setup I've ever seen. Love the wood desk, matching headphone stands and overall symetry. It puts mine to shame...


----------



## Barone Birra

Has anyone actually compared the Spring3 Level 2 with the KTE? To be honest, having already a streamer cleaning up the USB signal, I'd rather get a Level2 + preamp module and save as well...


----------



## SlothRock

mfgillia said:


> This must be simply the best looking desk setup I've ever seen. Love the wood desk, matching headphone stands and overall symetry. It puts mine to shame...


Thank you so much! Head fi has brought me down a rabbit hole with this hobby, that is for sure lol but I’ve loved every moment of it. Your gear list is extremely impressive as well my friend!


----------



## bilboda

mfgillia said:


> This must be simply the best looking desk setup I've ever seen. Love the wood desk, matching headphone stands and overall symetry. It puts mine to shame...


Yes, it's way too tidy, needs some stains, dust and clutter...


----------



## devilboy

I know this is a very debated topic and you can take it with a grain of salt, but I just want to make this comment...

Within the past two weeks or so, I've noticed that I've been listening to my system much more frequently. When the system is off, I look at it and want to turn it on to listen. While I'm listening, I noticed that I'm more pleased than usual. Sessions are becoming less filled with critique and more filled with pleasure. Everything throughout the entire frequency range just seems to be more coherent and gel more lately. I hadn't thought about why this may be until today. Today I realized that I have around 500 ish hours on the Spring 3 KTE. 

Not trying to start any burn in drama. I'm simply making an observation of my listening for the last couple weeks. Take from that what you will.


----------



## Deleeh

Barone Birra said:


> Has anyone actually compared the Spring3 Level 2 with the KTE? To be honest, having already a streamer cleaning up the USB signal, I'd rather get a Level2 + preamp module and save as well...


I would also be interested to see how good the Lv2 is compared to the Kte that is still on offer.
I could also do without the Usb Cleaner since I already have a Matrix Audio Element H installed in the PC and would have the Singxer Su 2 to even go i2S if the Spring 3 supports the Singxer DDC?

What is not quite clear to me is that it is supposed to be better on the symmetrical input than via Rca, would that be general across the models or just a rumour?

What I'm still a bit concerned about is the support page.
Kitsune didn't respond to my mail at all, which probably works better with Magnahifi.
I don't really understand why they do that for a device with such a price tag.
That's why I have real concerns about buying it if the support page is a bit arbitrary.

I would otherwise be seriously interested in at least trying it out before criticising great devices without hearing them first.

What I also don't understand is that with lv 2 they offer a remote control without a preamp which hardly makes sense if you decide not to use the preamp.

Maybe someone here can shed some light on my concerns about the manufacturer, would be very nice in any case.


----------



## kingoftown1

Goldensound compared the l2 and kte, though I'm not sure if that was with a DDC on the L2 or what input was used.  

I don't think you can go wrong either way tbh -- it's just about what's best for your use case, budget and how much you want to tweak your upstream setup.


----------



## SLC1966

I bought a used Spring V1 KTE a few months ago. Running with Ferrum stack to HP and to my pre amp for 2 ch.    The Spring is wonderful!  

My question is if anyone has a guesstimate of the Spring history?  Dates when V1. V2 and V3 came out?   Was KTE always an option?

Also wondering if anyone knows or thinks a V4 is in the works?


----------



## SlothRock

For burning in the Spring 3, are folks just simply leaving it on 24/7? Or just getting to 200+ hours normally?


----------



## mfgillia

SlothRock said:


> For burning in the Spring 3, are folks just simply leaving it on 24/7? Or just getting to 200+ hours normally?


Seems the consensus from Goldensound and others is to basically never turn it off.


----------



## Aquileolus

SlothRock said:


> For burning in the Spring 3, are folks just simply leaving it on 24/7? Or just getting to 200+ hours normally?


I checked with Jeff about this, he said just keep it on 24/7 is enough, no need to play anything, and after 200-300 hours you may turn it off when not using


----------



## thecrow (Jun 6, 2022)

devilboy said:


> I know this is a very debated topic and you can take it with a grain of salt, but I just want to make this comment...
> 
> Within the past two weeks or so, I've noticed that I've been listening to my system much more frequently. When the system is off, I look at it and want to turn it on to listen. While I'm listening, I noticed that I'm more pleased than usual. Sessions are becoming less filled with critique and more filled with pleasure. Everything throughout the entire frequency range just seems to be more coherent and gel more lately. I hadn't thought about why this may be until today. Today I realized that I have around 500 ish hours on the Spring 3 KTE.
> 
> Not trying to start any burn in drama. I'm simply making an observation of my listening for the last couple weeks. Take from that what you will.


I know the feeling. Currently my listening goes between enjoying and critiquing. That’s the norm for me. 
I’m thinking, for me, that is also part of streaming track to track as opposed to listening to an album.
I beleive streaming has made music so much more of a “consumable” as opposed to something of higher value. 

Having said that there are times , even recently, when i start listening to album and i slip more towards the enjoying side as opposed to critical listening, and i emd up listening to (at least most of) the album

Like a lot of stuff, this, for me, is just another part of this hobby - the music and the gear.

What is always great is when one has no compulsion to look at new gear. As in, no new headphones, dac or amp. That’s always a great place to be in when that occurs.

Keep enjoying your setup - it’s obviously serving you well right now


----------



## koso

SlothRock said:


> Family pic . Happy Saturday y'all!
> 
> Very nice setup.


----------



## BlakeT (Jun 6, 2022)

It's a black and copper DAC head to head death match today!  3 black and copper DAC's, 1 black and copper headphone.  I seem to have developed a theme here.


----------



## devilboy

BlakeT said:


> It's a black and copper DAC head to head death match today!  3 black and copper DAC's, 1 black and copper headphone.  I seem to have developed a theme here.


So freaking cool.


----------



## Zachik

BlakeT said:


> It's a black and copper DAC head to head death match today!  3 black and copper DAC's, 1 black and copper headphone.  I seem to have developed a theme here.


My main DAC up until a few months ago was the Lampizator Amber 3. It was just replaced 2-3 months ago by a May KTE...


----------



## jerryandme

So, I've had the Synergistic Purple Fuse in the 6 week old Spring 3 KTE/Pre for about 5 hours now. I've had lots of components, but other than bypassing fuses in a pair of Maggies, I've never done fuse upgrades.

Apparently there's a long burn-in for this fuse, but things are already exceeding whatever the Holo red nano's ceiling is. Full spectrum palpability is up so far...already worth the $200... definitely gonna grab one for the amp too.


----------



## devilboy

jerryandme said:


> So, I've had the Synergistic Purple Fuse in the 6 week old Spring 3 KTE/Pre for about 5 hours now. I've had lots of components, but other than bypassing fuses in a pair of Maggies, I've never done fuse upgrades.
> 
> Apparently there's a long burn-in for this fuse, but things are already exceeding whatever the Holo red nano's ceiling is. Full spectrum palpability is up so far...already worth the $200... definitely gonna grab one for the amp too.


Been always wanting to try a fuse upgrade.


----------



## Delta9K (Jun 7, 2022)

BlakeT said:


> It's a black and copper DAC head to head death match today!


When I'm ready to take it to the next level - a Baltic 3 is what I see as the next step for me. Curious how you find the Spring against those two even if it is really not anywhere near the same tier as either of those lampi's


----------



## SlothRock

Coming up on roughly 50 hours burnt in which I know isn't much (but getting there!) and already hearing changes to the sound signature. Definitely getting more bass impact back in the mix and feels like the sound is opening and sounding more organic (not that it didn't previously). Excited to see how it continues to change as I complete the burn in!


----------



## BlakeT (Jun 8, 2022)

Delta9K said:


> When I'm ready to take it to the next level - a Baltic 3 is what I see as the next step for me. Curious how you find the Spring against those two even if it is really not anywhere near the same tier as either of those lampi's



I have a _very_ high opinion of Spring 3 in terms of sound quality and build quality.  It is exceptional and a great value.

The head to head competition played out as expected- very much in line with price points, with definitive increases as you move up the price ladder.  Whether the sonic increases are worth the additional dollars is of course personal.

I think Spring 3 is very competitive in its price range.  Venus 2 is another good choice in this price level (I had them both at the same time) and both are easy to recommend.

The two Lampi's are clearly superior to me but they should be given the cost differential.  The Golden Gate has been upgraded to Mark 2 status and it is mind-blowing good (it is also running what some consider as being the best 242 and 5U4G tubes).  Being honest I just about shed a tear when I first put it in the system, the sound was so exceptional.  I think Baltic 3 would be a terrific move for you as sources I trust really like it and they also really like the Atlantic TRP.

Apologies for the detour....


----------



## Tom75

Are there any experiences with nuprime mini stream or stream S9 and the I2S connection. Not sure, whether it's compatible with the Spring...


----------



## Benno1988

Anyone got a neat preamp solution to use with Spring 3? Needs good range and obviously channel balance.


----------



## soulrider4ever (Jun 10, 2022)

Benno1988 said:


> Anyone got a neat preamp solution to use with Spring 3? Needs good range and obviously channel balance.


Selling my Red Wine Audio Isabella preamp - worked so well with the Spring I upgraded it to the LIO DHT.  I’d give you a nice deal on it for a fellow head-fier.


----------



## fuhransahis

Hey folks, I just got a deal on a Spring 1 Level 2 (w/ the USB upgrade).

I'll be using an iFi Zen Stream - given the  cleaner USB signal from the iFi and the USB upgrade on the L2 Spring, would it be safe to assume that the USB input on the Spring would be better than coax? Or could coax be better?

Thanks in advance for any help!


----------



## devilboy

fuhransahis said:


> Hey folks, I just got a deal on a Spring 1 Level 2 (w/ the USB upgrade).
> 
> I'll be using an iFi Zen Stream - given the  cleaner USB signal from the iFi and the USB upgrade on the L2 Spring, would it be safe to assume that the USB input on the Spring would be better than coax? Or could coax be better?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help!


Not sure if the Spring 1 has the galvanic isolation that the 3 and May have. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have the Titanis either.
Check out Goldensound's review on YouTube. It was that review that made me try the 3 so I can go direct via USB. It sounds wonderful and I feel no need for a DDC.


----------



## BlakeT

soulrider4ever said:


> Selling my Red Wine Audio Isabella preamp - worked so well with the Spring I upgraded it to the LIO DHT.  I’d give you a nice deal on it for a fellow hea-fier.



This would be a killer combo.  I've posted in this thread before- the Spring 3 preamp module is very nice.  If you want to further improve things from a sonic perspective, a high quality preamp will raise the sound quality, better soundstage, imaging/layering more holographic.  I've tried this with many DAC's with built in volume control and always subjectively prefer a separate preamp.  YMMV, IMHO, etc.


----------



## ARCXENOS (Jun 11, 2022)

BlakeT said:


> This would be a killer combo.  I've posted in this thread before- the Spring 3 preamp module is very nice.  If you want to further improve things from a sonic perspective, a high quality preamp will raise the sound quality, better soundstage, imaging/layering more holographic.  I've tried this with many DAC's with built in volume control and always subjectively prefer a separate preamp.  YMMV, IMHO, etc.



I agree with you, I found the preamp module worth its asking price, definitely punching up. But ultimately the worth of flexibility is higher, go separates if possible


----------



## ochre korg

Noob alert! 😜 I have a cd-player with usb in where you can put in an usb-stick with WAV-files, can the KTE process that to the amp?


----------



## KenMan85

SlothRock said:


> Family pic . Happy Saturday y'all!


beautiful setup!


----------



## KenMan85

SlothRock said:


> For burning in the Spring 3, are folks just simply leaving it on 24/7? Or just getting to 200+ hours normally?


leave it on with music playing , u can leave the amp off.


----------



## tawmizzzz

(Please ignore if you're a non-cable believer)

Have folks here experimented with power cables for the Spring 3? I ordered the Triode Wire Labs Digital Power Cord with intention to put onto either my Ferrum OOR/Hypsos, and while I heard a different in blacker background and detail, the tonality felt too detached with a loss of musical PRaT. 

For fun, I swapped my stock Spring 3 cable for the Digital PC and it really feels like the R2R magic just got enhanced; excellent texture, clean balanced musicality with more dynamic bass extension. Would be interested to see if others have noted nice, similar enhancements playing around with the power.


----------



## devilboy

tawmizzzz said:


> (Please ignore if you're a non-cable believer)
> 
> Have folks here experimented with power cables for the Spring 3? I ordered the Triode Wire Labs Digital Power Cord with intention to put onto either my Ferrum OOR/Hypsos, and while I heard a different in blacker background and detail, the tonality felt too detached with a loss of musical PRaT.
> 
> For fun, I swapped my stock Spring 3 cable for the Digital PC and it really feels like the R2R magic just got enhanced; excellent texture, clean balanced musicality with more dynamic bass extension. Would be interested to see if others have noted nice, similar enhancements playing around with the power.


I also have a Triode Wire Labs Digital American on my Spring 3 KTE and it really opens up the sound. It's effortless, dynamic and transparent with black backgrounds. Getting  balanced AC from the CorePower Technologies 1200 doesn't hurt either.


----------



## jerryandme (Jun 16, 2022)

Somebody mentioned the Nuprime Stream 9. I'm considering auditioning one to evaluate vs. the Zen Stream, which performs remarkably at $399, but at the $1,195 price point, The Nuprime certainly has the most promising stream architecture. There are no reviews, but their amps are highly regarded and gaining ground. The Nuprime has I2S out  as well as DSD256 up-sampling capabity. I don't like Roon but would prefer to get off the barely adequate MConnect IOS App to run Qobuz (btw, far superior to Tidal into the Holo DACs)...the Nuprime appears to have far superior native Qobuz ability. It's the only streamer near its price with linear power supply and so on... If I snatch one up, I'll report back. 


fuhransahis said:


> Hey folks, I just got a deal on a Spring 1 Level 2 (w/ the USB upgrade).
> 
> I'll be using an iFi Zen Stream - given the  cleaner USB signal from the iFi and the USB upgrade on the L2 Spring, would it be safe to assume that the USB input on the Spring would be better than coax? Or could coax be better?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help!


I love my Zen Stream into the spring 3KTE...I believe USB is superior


----------



## jerryandme

Ok, you gotta listen to the track "Backwater Blues" sung by Dinah Washington on the Count Basie live album _Basie in Sweden_, recorded at a fairground/festival situation in 1962. I'm surprised this album is under the audiophile, usual suspect radar...put down the moribund Krall and stream this now! 

My fav live big band recording of that or maybe any era...so many great soundstage attributes!


----------



## Klots

KenMan85 said:


> leave it on with music playing , u can leave the amp off.



I asked Magna Hifi for this, and they said just leave amp on, no music has to be playing.


----------



## Klots

What are peoples thoughts on sound quality USB vs Coax ? Who own the L1 or L2 version of Spring 3. Thanks!


----------



## Deleeh

Klots said:


> What are peoples thoughts on sound quality USB vs Coax ? Who own the L1 or L2 version of Spring 3. Thanks!


Hello,

It depends, I would say.
If you are using a DDC, you are already using Usb there anyway and can forward it coax or via I2S, or have to forward it that way.
Which makes the Kte version superfluous I would say.
So it's more interesting for people who use a DDC to buy the Lv 2 and maybe invest in the preamp.
Since the Lv2 includes a remote control.

What is not included in Lv 2 are the capacitors from Holo.
I have seen that different capacitors are used for all 3 stages.
I can't say how big the difference is.

I think the Kte version is a waste of money if you were to use it with a DDC as the internal usb port is said to be very good.

So I think as someone who has not heard the Spring 3 and does not want to prejudge.
I think for the money they could have done a bit better with the remote control on Lv 2.
And could have included a few nice features.
I'm still thinking about it, but I've also been told that you could get something better for the money.
Which is also true when I did some research.

I think it's definitely an upgrade for those who are coming from the cheap Dac, topping, smsl, ect.
Otherwise ask Magnahifi about my claim,it won't be quite right but not wrong either probably.

Because of the connection between coax and usb.
Apart from the good implementation of the usb port,one should not forget that it is still important that the pc is grounded.
That makes a lot of difference even with a good dac.
It is similar with coax.
Use clean cables that have a secure connection and avoid the outer contact touching a metal plate.
This can happen especially with PC sound cards.


----------



## Tom75

devilboy said:


> I also have a Triode Wire Labs Digital American on my Spring 3 KTE and it really opens up the sound. It's effortless, dynamic and transparent with black backgrounds. Getting  balanced AC from the CorePower Technologies 1200 doesn't hurt either.


Interesting.
I just tried a custom 4N silver power cord for my Oor/Hypsos and ended up using it for the Spring3 KTE.  Changed the sound slightly with more headroom and smoother vocals..


----------



## Tom75

jerryandme said:


> Somebody mentioned the Nuprime Stream 9. I'm considering auditioning one to evaluate vs. the Zen Stream, which performs remarkably at $399, but at the $1,195 price point, The Nuprime certainly has the most promising stream architecture. There are no reviews, but their amps are highly regarded and gaining ground. The Nuprime has I2S out  as well as DSD256 up-sampling capabity. I don't like Roon but would prefer to get off the barely adequate MConnect IOS App to run Qobuz (btw, far superior to Tidal into the Holo DACs)...the Nuprime appears to have far superior native Qobuz ability. It's the only streamer near its price with linear power supply and so on... If I snatch one up, I'll report back.
> 
> I love my Zen Stream into the spring 3KTE...I believe USB is superior


So, the Nuprime stream 9 i2s connection is compatible with the Holo i2s?
Just asking, because I want to include qobuz and I'm not happy with the idap6 implementation of qobuz (no support internally and with hiby app).


----------



## bluenight

Is Hugo TT2 + mscaler better then Spring 3 KTE?


----------



## KenMan85

bluenight said:


> Is Hugo TT2 + mscaler better then Spring 3 KTE?


for the money it better fn be lol 
but i would take the spring 3 kte with HQplayer


----------



## mudguardiain

bluenight said:


> Is Hugo TT2 + mscaler better then Spring 3 KTE?


I have not tried the TT2 + Scaler but have tried TT2 & Qutest + Scaler & neither were close to the Spring 3KTE in my opinion. Obviously this is subjective, but for me the Spring 3 KTE sound more real, lifelike. I like Chord DACS but in my system they seemed a bit thin & not as soulful as the KTE. I like to see live bands & have always judged my gear on how close to the feeling of live music does it sound. The Spring 3 KTE does this better than the Chords in my opinion. I have added the Puritan PSM136 mains purifier onto my mains spur & have to say this adds a hell of a lot to the sound also, easily worth the asking price, adds to the sense of live performance & emotional engagement with the music.


----------



## k900733

Sorry this might be off topic but here is the most active Holo thread...

Does anyone know if the Kitsunehifi USA is still in business? I wanted to place an order of S3 KTE through Kitsunehifi website, but it keeps showing error when creating an account. I've sent email and support ticket, but receive no response.

Any idea...?


----------



## BlakeT

k900733 said:


> Sorry this might be off topic but here is the most active Holo thread...
> 
> Does anyone know if the Kitsunehifi USA is still in business? I wanted to place an order of S3 KTE through Kitsunehifi website, but it keeps showing error when creating an account. I've sent email and support ticket, but receive no response.
> 
> Any idea...?



Yes, they are still in business.  I had an email interaction with Tim yesterday.


----------



## SlothRock

They quote 7-10 business days as a response time which I’ve found to be accurate so if you just emailed them yesterday or a couple days ago it may take awhile to get a response


----------



## KenMan85

BlakeT said:


> Yes, they are still in business.  I had an email interaction with Tim yesterday.


you find out when that bliss is coming lol


----------



## BlakeT

KenMan85 said:


> you find out when that bliss is coming lol


----------



## k900733

k900733 said:


> Sorry this might be off topic but here is the most active Holo thread...
> 
> Does anyone know if the Kitsunehifi USA is still in business? I wanted to place an order of S3 KTE through Kitsunehifi website, but it keeps showing error when creating an account. I've sent email and support ticket, but receive no response.
> 
> Any idea...?



Thank you guys. Just received reply from Tim. 
The ball starts rolling😎😎


----------



## Tom75

Hi guys,
Any experiences with Holo Spring3 KTE and Auralic Aries G1.
Not sure, whether it's worth to go for a G1..


----------



## devilboy

Doing an amp shootout with the S3KTE.. Luxman vs Bakoon. This DAC is amazing.


----------



## Rantenti

devilboy said:


> Doing an amp shootout with the S3KTE.. Luxman vs Bakoon. This DAC is amazing.


Can't wait to read your shootout review!


----------



## Rantenti

I'm very happy with my Spring 3 KTE but I have a question.

I am playing Tidal masters already downloaded onto iPad which feeds the Spring 3 KTE via a USB cable. The iPad has its wifi and bluetooth all disabled. 

However, iPad shows it is playing via Airplay. Does anybody knows what's happening and whether I am getting any loss?



Thanks.


----------



## devilboy

Rantenti said:


> Can't wait to read your shootout review!


Thank you for your interest.

I had the Spring 3 KTE DAC output the signal simultaneously via its XLR and RCA outputs. The XLR outputs went to the Luxman p-750u and the RCA outputs went to the Bakoon 13R. I used the same headphones and same headphone cable and switched between the two amps on the fly as desired. Headphone in use  was Meze Elite and cable was Lavri Grand. I spent two FULL days doing this... All day, both days.

I can honestly say, I cannot tell a lick of difference between the two amplifiers. Both sound wonderful and both conveyed all the glorious detail and expansive sound of the Spring 3 KTE. 

Ultimately, I chose to keep the Luxman strictly due to the added cost of the Bakoon. 

If anyone is interested in a Bakoon AMP 13R, feel free to message me. It's for sale here and on another site.


----------



## SlothRock

So I’ve been absolutely loving my Spring 3 KTE but I’m a little concerned that I should have gone with the preamp version after tonight and wanted to get peoples’ thoughts.

I was using Equalizer APO on my comp for fun which I normally don’t do since I don’t normally EQ. When playing tracks, especially connected to my Euforia, I noticed that it was indicating that there was clipping going on. I never heard anything that sounded like clipping so I was surprised to see that happening

Now this all went away when I turned on the Equalizer APO pre-amp and turned everything down a few db’s. Not sure if I’m particularly losing anything by just using the software to turn down the volume vs the analog preamp that the Spring 3 would come with. Would love to get peoples’ opinions on it


----------



## Rantenti

SlothRock said:


> So I’ve been absolutely loving my Spring 3 KTE but I’m a little concerned that I should have gone with the preamp version after tonight and wanted to get peoples’ thoughts.
> 
> I was using Equalizer APO on my comp for fun which I normally don’t do since I don’t normally EQ. When playing tracks, especially connected to my Euforia, I noticed that it was indicating that there was clipping going on. I never heard anything that sounded like clipping so I was surprised to see that happening
> 
> Now this all went away when I turned on the Equalizer APO pre-amp and turned everything down a few db’s. Not sure if I’m particularly losing anything by just using the software to turn down the volume vs the analog preamp that the Spring 3 would come with. Would love to get peoples’ opinions on it


AFAIK, the preamp module of the Spring 3 KTE comes after the DAC in the signal chain. It will not help if the source signal is already clipped before the DAC.

If you use EQ at source, you need to lower the master volume so that the whole curve is below 0 dB. Otherwise, clipping will occur at those frquencies boosted above 0 dB. Some clipping may be very soft and in the inaudible/ less audible frequencies, or obscured by other frequencies in the music so that you may not easily notice it. Sorry if it was obvious to you but would be good to check.

I use a separate Holo Audio Serene preamp and it should perform better than the preamp add-on for Spring 3.


----------



## SlothRock

Rantenti said:


> AFAIK, the preamp module of the Spring 3 KTE comes after the DAC in the signal chain. It will not help if the source signal is already clipped before the DAC.
> 
> If you use EQ at source, you need to lower the master volume so that the whole curve is below 0 dB. Otherwise, clipping will occur at those frquencies boosted above 0 dB. Some clipping may be very soft and in the inaudible/ less audible frequencies, or obscured by other frequencies in the music so that you may not easily notice it. Sorry if it was obvious to you but would be good to check.
> 
> I use a separate Holo Audio Serene preamp and it should perform better than the preamp add-on for Spring 3.


Ahh ok thank you very much - glad to hear I didn’t make a mistake then. The clipping present on Equalizer APO was with my ZMF Verite closed on my Euforia amp without any EQ applied. This did go away when I EQ’d it - I’m wondering if the bass boost that ZMF’s have potentially lead to this since it wasn’t audible clipping to me at all.


----------



## robecom

I pulled the plug on S3 KTE last month and after 350 hours of burn in, this thing is just incredible! I upgraded from the Ares 2 which was just 6 months with me.  The difference is just so stark in all aspects. I am using the BS Node USB out into the DAC to stream Tidal into my Musical Fidelity M5si. I know it’s not a headphone setup but this was the forum which made up my mind to go for the Spring 3.
The clarity and staging is unreal! 🤩


----------



## devilboy

robecom said:


> I pulled the plug on S3 KTE last month and after 350 hours of burn in, this thing is just incredible! I upgraded from the Ares 2 which was just 6 months with me.  The difference is just so stark in all aspects. I am using the BS Node USB out into the DAC to stream Tidal into my Musical Fidelity M5si. I know it’s not a headphone setup but this was the forum which made up my mind to go for the Spring 3.
> The clarity and staging is unreal! 🤩


It's a phenomenal piece. I preferred it over the Metrum Pavane L3b and Sonnet Morpheus. It has the natural, organic presentation with liquid midrange of the other two DACs the speed and attack that the others do not have.


----------



## tdx

Quick question to fellow Spring owners: I'm getting a Pathos Inpol Ear amp next week Its users have said that it's made to accept up to 4.4VRMS and that when they were feeding it via the Holo's XLRs and their 5.8VRMS, the amp clipped and distorted on certain tracks. So they were using RCAs instead since those output 2.9VRMS.

Since I have the Spring 3 with preamp, I'm wondering what's the best way to hook it up when I get the Pathos. Should I also resort to RCAs to avoid clipping? Or since mine has the preamp, can I feed via XLRs and lower the volume on the Spring until clipping is gone? 

What would you recommend so that I don't degrade the sound quality in the signal path?

Thanks


----------



## Delta9K

robecom said:


> it’s not a headphone setup but this was the forum which made up my mind to go for the Spring 3.


It's all good - headphones are just one means to an end where the goal is getting music into your ears. Doesn't matter how you do it as long as you are able to enjoy the music!


----------



## k900733

robecom said:


> I pulled the plug on S3 KTE last month and after 350 hours of burn in, this thing is just incredible! I upgraded from the Ares 2 which was just 6 months with me.  The difference is just so stark in all aspects. I am using the BS Node USB out into the DAC to stream Tidal into my Musical Fidelity M5si. I know it’s not a headphone setup but this was the forum which made up my mind to go for the Spring 3.
> The clarity and staging is unreal! 🤩


When did you place your order, if you don't mind me asking?
I placed my order on June 22. Haven't heard anything so far. Just can't wait😅


----------



## mfgillia (Jul 15, 2022)

tdx said:


> Quick question to fellow Spring owners: I'm getting a Pathos Inpol Ear amp next week Its users have said that it's made to accept up to 4.4VRMS and that when they were feeding it via the Holo's XLRs and their 5.8VRMS, the amp clipped and distorted on certain tracks. So they were using RCAs instead since those output 2.9VRMS.
> 
> Since I have the Spring 3 with preamp, I'm wondering what's the best way to hook it up when I get the Pathos. Should I also resort to RCAs to avoid clipping? Or since mine has the preamp, can I feed via XLRs and lower the volume on the Spring until clipping is gone?
> 
> ...


The answer appears to be yes - you can vary the voltage by changing the volume of the Spring 3.

In my case I have the volume set at 95, which is believed to be around 5. 5Vrms, connected via XLRs to an amp that accepts a maximum of 6Vrms (Cayin HA 300 MKII) and works fine - no clipping.

In your case, you will also want to avoid using maximum volume on the Spring even with the RCAs as that outputs 5.8Vrms exceeding your amp's 4.4Vrms maximum.


----------



## robecom

k900733 said:


> When did you place your order, if you don't mind me asking?
> I placed my order on June 22. Haven't heard anything so far. Just can't wait😅


I ordered mine from Wildism in Hong Kong. Took around  days for him to ship from HK to Singapore. Total order time was less than 1 week from placing order and making payment.He also tested the unit and ran it for a day before shipping to me.


----------



## SlothRock

tdx said:


> Quick question to fellow Spring owners: I'm getting a Pathos Inpol Ear amp next week Its users have said that it's made to accept up to 4.4VRMS and that when they were feeding it via the Holo's XLRs and their 5.8VRMS, the amp clipped and distorted on certain tracks. So they were using RCAs instead since those output 2.9VRMS.
> 
> Since I have the Spring 3 with preamp, I'm wondering what's the best way to hook it up when I get the Pathos. Should I also resort to RCAs to avoid clipping? Or since mine has the preamp, can I feed via XLRs and lower the volume on the Spring until clipping is gone?
> 
> ...



Are you gonna be using this setup at a computer or somewhere you can simply adjust the master volume? Using Equalizer APO, I'm running no EQ but a -5db preamp buffer and it's working perfectly for mainly my Euforia AE but also my Ferrum OOR + Hypsos (though this wasn't getting to "clipped" levels from what I could see in my system)


----------



## mfgillia

SlothRock said:


> Are you gonna be using this setup at a computer or somewhere you can simply adjust the master volume? Using Equalizer APO, I'm running no EQ but a -5db preamp buffer and it's working perfectly for mainly my Euforia AE but also my Ferrum OOR + Hypsos (though this wasn't getting to "clipped" levels from what I could see in my system)


I've read a few times that in general software based attentuation tends to be problematic. I believe the thought process is something like this: reducing the volume in software works by effectively multiplying the sample by a value less than one reducing the bit depth - the number of bits used to represent each sample. Therefore, there's a reduction in full resolution, dynamic range and signal-to-noise ratio. Evidently there may also be additional issues with rounding errors that can appear while performing those calculations.

Someone more knowledgeable than myself though may be able to shed more light on this.


----------



## tdx

mfgillia said:


> The answer appears to be yes - you can vary the voltage by changing the volume of the Spring 3.
> 
> In my case I have the volume set at 95, which is believed to be around 5. 5Vrms, connected via XLRs to an amp that accepts a maximum of 6Vrms (Cayin HA 300 MKII) and works fine - no clipping.
> 
> In your case, you will also want to avoid using maximum volume on the Spring even with the RCAs as that outputs 5.8Vrms exceeding your amp's 4.4Vrms maximum.


Great thanks that's good to know. I had read somewhere that setting the Volume at 94 bypasses the preamp altogether, not sure if that's the case. But as long as I know that changing the volume on the Spring vs my amp does not degrade SQ, then I'm good.


----------



## tdx

SlothRock said:


> Are you gonna be using this setup at a computer or somewhere you can simply adjust the master volume? Using Equalizer APO, I'm running no EQ but a -5db preamp buffer and it's working perfectly for mainly my Euforia AE but also my Ferrum OOR + Hypsos (though this wasn't getting to "clipped" levels from what I could see in my system)


My source is a PC running Roon/HQPlayer and I'm already setting to volume to peak at -3dB. So I should be good then.


----------



## mfgillia

tdx said:


> Great thanks that's good to know. I had read somewhere that setting the Volume at 94 bypasses the preamp altogether, not sure if that's the case. But as long as I know that changing the volume on the Spring vs my amp does not degrade SQ, then I'm good.


There's no ability to bypass the preamp but its reported to be very good borrowing heavily from the Serene.


----------



## SlothRock

tdx said:


> My source is a PC running Roon/HQPlayer and I'm already setting to volume to peak at -3dB. So I should be good then.


Yes you should be fine. I’m doing the same on my end with a Spring 3 KTE with no preamp and there is no degradation.


----------



## k900733

robecom said:


> I ordered mine from Wildism in Hong Kong. Took around  days for him to ship from HK to Singapore. Total order time was less than 1 week from placing order and making payment.He also tested the unit and ran it for a day before shipping to me.


Thank you for your information!

I ordered from Kitsune USA, which seems to be the one that needs the longest processing time among others🤦‍♂️.


----------



## mfgillia

robecom said:


> I ordered mine from Wildism in Hong Kong. Took around  days for him to ship from HK to Singapore. Total order time was less than 1 week from placing order and making payment.He also tested the unit and ran it for a day before shipping to me.


Me too - they're great. Very customer service oriented.


----------



## sparkylarky

mfgillia said:


> The answer appears to be yes - you can vary the voltage by changing the volume of the Spring 3.
> 
> In my case I have the volume set at 95, which is believed to be around 5. 5Vrms, connected via XLRs to an amp that accepts a maximum of 6Vrms (Cayin HA 300 MKII) and works fine - no clipping.
> 
> In your case, you will also want to avoid using maximum volume on the Spring even with the RCAs as that outputs 5.8Vrms exceeding your amp's 4.4Vrms maximum.


My sweet spot is volume at 90 on the Spring3 preamp with XLR output into the Ferrum stack


----------



## FooFighter

As of interest as I only have the non preamp version, I read you guys set the preamp to something below 95 and then reach an output which is below the output of the non preamp version of 5.8Vrms?
What is the maximum volume setting on the preamp scale as I am wondering how a doubled voltage of 11.6Vrms is reached if the max scale is 100


----------



## spacecase25

TBH, i would go no preamp and then pair it with a passive pre. The hot outputs are fine and even helpful in that situation. 

And, i must say, it sounds great through a cheapo (relative) Freya-S


----------



## SlothRock (Jul 16, 2022)

Also could go with a Topping Pre90 - few different affordable and more malleable solutions if you decide a pre is really needed


----------



## mfgillia (Jul 16, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> As of interest as I only have the non preamp version, I read you guys set the preamp to something below 95 and then reach an output which is below the output of the non preamp version of 5.8Vrms?
> What is the maximum volume setting on the preamp scale as I am wondering how a doubled voltage of 11.6Vrms is reached if the max scale is 100


Note we aren't necessarily trying to match or go below the non-preamp version of the Spring 3 of 5.8Vrms. Instead we'll trying to figure out at which voltage does the amp appear to perform at it's best. In the case of the Cayin HA-300 MKII, some like Zach at ZMF report feeding it higher voltages sounds noticeably better to their ears.


----------



## FooFighter

mfgillia said:


> Note we aren't necessarily trying to match or go below the non-preamp version of the Spring 3 of 5.8Vrms. Instead we'll trying to figure out at which voltage does the amp appear to perform at it's best. In the case of the Cayin HA-300 MKII, some like Zach at ZMF report feeding it higher voltages sounds noticeably better to their ears.


OK, don't want to speak bad about the preamp version, am just interested what is the benefit compared to the non preamp version for people driving it below the voltage of the non preamp version if it's not about more output power?
Is the quality better or better blackness / headroom as being discussed with pure amps where you won't use more than half of the power in reality?


----------



## mfgillia

SlothRock said:


> Also could go with a Topping Pre90 - few different affordable and more malleable solutions if you decide a pre is really needed


Sure, plus I recall Jason at Ampsandsound stating that in his view from the perspective of an old school purist he generally favors not placing anything between the DAC and amp, if at all possible, and if absolutely necessary to avoid clipping then would favor a passive pre versus active preamp. 

For others of us though, the opportunity to get a well regarded active preamp recommended by reviewers like Goldensound and New Record Day, which shares a similar architecture as the Serene at the additional charge of just $400-600 seems like a bargain too good to pass up. Plus, the remote with volume control provides additional flexiblity especially when used with speakers.


----------



## mfgillia

FooFighter said:


> OK, don't want to speak bad about the preamp version, am just interested what is the benefit compared to the non preamp version for people driving it below the voltage of the non preamp version if it's not about more output power?
> Is the quality better or better blackness / headroom as being discussed with pure amps where you won't use more than half of the power in reality?


I'm not sure there is a clear objective benefit versus different use cases and preferences - e.g., the optional preamp adds volume control to the remote, which provides greater flexibility with speakers and potentially saves some cash versus adding a matching, separate preamp. However, many passionate audiophiles have argued against active pre-amps fearing the electronics will color the sound.  

Some amps are said to respond better to lower or higher voltages so having a preamp allows us to play with this by changing the volume / voltage but as @SlothRock stated above its easy enough to just add one later on assuming you have the extra desk or rack space.    

Regarding active versus passive pre-amps, one of my favorite videos on that subject, which did partially influence my decision to get the preamp with the Spring 3, is Goldensound's Active Versus Passive Preamplifiers / Review of the Serene.


----------



## Rayon

@GoldenOne how do you think Spring 3 KTE compares to Dave and WaveDream? You have said that May goes above those, but what about Spring 3 KTE? Is it in between or just behind May?


----------



## GoldenOne

Rayon said:


> @GoldenOne how do you think Spring 3 KTE compares to Dave and WaveDream? You have said that May goes above those, but what about Spring 3 KTE? Is it in between or just behind May?


Wavedream beats both the Spring 3 and DAVE in my opinion. And I'd consider it and the May roughly equal.
Wavedream sort of exaggerates macrodynamics and is an extremely lively sounding DAC, but often a little too much so, leading to it coming across somewhat aggressive compared to other DACs and this would prevent me personally from having it as my main DAC unless I had a slightly laid back amp, or maybe tubes. But in most other areas, staging, layering, imaging, separation, resolution etc, it was pretty much equal to May.
The two areas that May beat it were timbre (May was more realistic sounding to me for vocals and instruments), and a slight edge in three-dimensional placement of elements in a mix, but really only slight.
I PERSONALLY prefer May over Wavedream, but get why someone would prefer wavedream and it's honestly a tossup. They're the two best DACs I've tried.

The biggest difference between Spring 3 and May is macrodynamics. May is faster/punchier than spring 3 is. It's not far behind in other areas, just a few percentage points behind in detail, staging, separation etc. But at this level the diminishing returns hit hard.
The Wavedream/May are definitely better than the Spring 3, but whether it's worth the extra cost is up to you. 

DAVE is a bit of a tough one for me. It's exceptionally resolving, and handles separation of stuff really really well. It also stages bigger than May or Wavedream do, but cannot layer things or present a variance of depth as well as the May/WD/Spring 3 can.
It also can in some systems come across a little too dry/clinical. Which is odd cause the other chord DACs tend to lean a bit warm, the DAVE is an outlier there.
Technically brilliant, but not as complete a package as a May or Wavedream.
It vs Spring 3 would purely be a preference thing. DAVE outresolves it by a little bit and is faster/more dynamic, but spring 3 wins in realism and spatial presentation.


----------



## Delta9K

It is my secret hope that perhaps one day @GoldenOne might get the opportunity to review some pieces from LampizatOr in the likes of the Amber4 or Baltic 3. I would really appreciate his thoughts and comparisons. Personally, I am leaning now in the direction that the Baltic 3 is the next DAC to supersede my current Spring3 KTE, but in no hurry as I am not sure I've settled on amplification just yet.  If it matters to any readers it is the Susvara that I'm primarily focusing a setup around.


----------



## Zachik

Delta9K said:


> It is my secret hope that perhaps one day @GoldenOne might get the opportunity to review some pieces from LampizatOr in the likes of the Amber4 or Baltic 3. I would really appreciate his thoughts and comparisons. Personally, I am leaning now in the direction that the Baltic 3 is the next DAC to supersede my current Spring3 KTE, but in no hurry as I am not sure I've settled on amplification just yet.  If it matters to any readers it is the Susvara that I'm primarily focusing a setup around.


I had an Amber 3, before selling it in favor of Holo May.
The May is more neutral, while Amber 3 was warmer with coloration added to the sound. I went with the neutral Holo May since most my amps are tube amps, so their added coloration is enough for my taste along with a neutral DAC.
May has pitch black background vs. Amber 3 that had an audible noise floor even at listening volumes.

I had no chance auditioning Amber 4 nor the Baltic, so hope my above impressions are still useful for you.


----------



## BlakeT (Jul 20, 2022)

Nobody said otherwise, and this isn't directed to anyone, but IMO, every single audio component (and most parts within such component) "colors" the sound- every DAC, amp, streamer, headphone, cable,  speaker, etc..  Yes, even ASR "stamp of approval products" are colored.  Solid state, tube, hybrid, it doesn't matter.  All colored.

Also, none of us know what neutral really is.  We are just making our best subjective guesses (myself included), and it is all just relative to other systems or components we have heard.  Some hold out reference products as a comparator, which is what we all tend to do (again, myself included) and it makes sense to do so.  Otherwise, how do we develop our opinions and judgements?  How would we describe sound qualities otherwise?  "Hey, this amp sounds good".  Great, compared to what?

But that reference product?  Yes, it too is colored.

All good by the way, I just think this fact tends to get lost from time to time.


----------



## GoldenOne

Delta9K said:


> It is my secret hope that perhaps one day @GoldenOne might get the opportunity to review some pieces from LampizatOr in the likes of the Amber4 or Baltic 3. I would really appreciate his thoughts and comparisons. Personally, I am leaning now in the direction that the Baltic 3 is the next DAC to supersede my current Spring3 KTE, but in no hurry as I am not sure I've settled on amplification just yet.  If it matters to any readers it is the Susvara that I'm primarily focusing a setup around.


I'd really love to, I think Lampizator, Weiss and MSB are the three DACs I'd love to spend proper time with at home.
Unfortunately they're pretty hard to get ahold of


----------



## Rayon

GoldenOne said:


> I'd really love to, I think Lampizator, Weiss and MSB are the three DACs I'd love to spend proper time with at home.
> Unfortunately they're pretty hard to get ahold of


What about for example Esoteric N-05XD?


----------



## GoldenOne

Rayon said:


> What about for example Esoteric N-05XD?


I'd be interested to try the Esoteric DACs though have had mixed experiences with Teac in the past so I'm not too sure whether to be excited or not.
Admittedly it was with lower end Teac stuff though so probably not a fair comparison.


----------



## helljudgement

GoldenOne said:


> Wavedream sort of exaggerates macrodynamics and is an extremely lively sounding DAC, but often a little too much so, leading to it coming across somewhat aggressive compared to other DACs and this would prevent me personally from having it as my main DAC unless I had a slightly laid back amp, or maybe tubes. But in most other areas, staging, layering, imaging, separation, resolution etc, it was pretty much equal to May.


A bit off topic here but are you referring to the Signature model? Having own the Signature SE, I concur that it's an incredibly dynamic and hard hitting sound. It's a dream pairing with tubes as tubes can soften the leading edges just enough to fully enjoy the dynamic range that the dac offers without inducing any fatigue that may arise from it's aggressive nature. I was told by ears I trust that the standard Wavedream edition doesn't hit as hard and it has a more stately presentation with grander staging and isn't nearly as aggressive as the Signature though I can't confirm that as I've yet to hear one myself and their impressions are from 2 ch systems.


----------



## GoldenOne

helljudgement said:


> A bit off topic here but are you referring to the Signature model? Having own the Signature SE, I concur that it's an incredibly dynamic and hard hitting sound. It's a dream pairing with tubes as tubes can soften the leading edges just enough to fully enjoy the dynamic range that the dac offers without inducing any fatigue that may arise from it's aggressive nature. I was told by ears I trust that the standard Wavedream edition doesn't hit as hard and it has a more stately presentation with grander staging and isn't nearly as aggressive as the Signature though I can't confirm that as I've yet to hear one myself and their impressions are from 2 ch systems.


Yep I tried the Wavedream Signature Balanced.
I've also yet to hear wavedream non-signature or wavelight


----------



## robecom

Anyone here have used the new Lumin U2 mini as a streamer to a Spring 3?


----------



## mantraone

GoldenOne said:


> Yep I tried the Wavedream Signature Balanced.
> I've also yet to hear wavedream non-signature or wavelight


Let me ask if you already tested the Rockna Wavelight? I remember it appear in some video near your desk, but why not a review out yet appear?


----------



## GoldenOne

mantraone said:


> Let me ask if you already tested the Rockna Wavelight? I remember it appear in some video near your desk, but why not a review out yet appear?


I've not had the wavelight in yet


----------



## soulrider4ever

robecom said:


> Anyone here have used the new Lumin U2 mini as a streamer to a Spring 3?


I have - it sounded great for sure, was a step up over my Auralic Aries Femto but I don’t have Roon and didn’t realize how bad their native app was so I sold it.


----------



## mantraone

soulrider4ever said:


> I have - it sounded great for sure, was a step up over my Auralic Aries Femto but I don’t have Roon and didn’t realize how bad their native app was so I sold it.


And now, what's  the best with roon?? For my test it's very good the Gustard U18 via USB from Roon Rock Fanless PC, then from the U18 via I2s to Spring 3 KTE, in my setup better than Titan USB... strange but true.


----------



## soulrider4ever

mantraone said:


> And now, what's  the best with roon?? For my test it's very good the Gustard U18 via USB from Roon Rock Fanless PC, then from the U18 via I2s to Spring 3 KTE, in my setup better than Titan USB... strange but true.


I'm going to say the PSAudio AirLens due out in a couple months will probably be the best for Roon direct to I2S, but that's just my speculation - won't know for sure until it releases and tested.


----------



## mantraone

soulrider4ever said:


> I'm going to say the PSAudio AirLens due out in a couple months will probably be the best for Roon direct to I2S, but that's just my speculation - won't know for sure until it releases and tested.


Looks to early to say something like that, about roon I like to wait the roon ready certification to avoid surprise about compatibility before have a listening session with any new equipment. For sure will be an interesting streamer...

my question was related about what are you using instead of the lumin right now...


----------



## soulrider4ever

mantraone said:


> Looks to early to say something like that, about roon I like to wait the roon ready certification to avoid surprise about compatibility before have a listening session with any new equipment. For sure will be an interesting streamer...
> 
> my question was related about what are you using instead of the lumin right now...


It’s in my signature - Naim ND5XS2 - great software and solid sound.


----------



## elf21400 (Jul 31, 2022)

Hi, I just prepared my collaboration:
-> Audiobyte Hydra HUB with Ferrum HYPSOS, connected to Spring 3 KTE via i2s.

Hydra HUB is a good DDC to work with Spring 3 KTE via i2s.
(It has support for various input sources including USB)
(Set Spring 3 KTE i2s to "ALT1" mode to be compatible with Hydra HUB)

Hydra HUB is also a streamer and it supports HQPlayer/Roon to work with Spring 3 KTE.

Hydra HUB itself is also:
Re-clocker
Upsampler
PCM-DSD converter

It can help NOS DAC - Spring 3 KTE to handle OS(Oversampling) (up to PCM768K/DSD512) and PCM-DSD format conversion and front-end signal optimization.

Through the control of the Hydra HUB front touch screen, it is very simple and fast.
I can quickly do oversampling, or PCM-DSD format conversion without any complicated setup or waiting, just a few taps on the touch screen and it's done.
(Completed through the FPGA operation of the Hydra HUB)

It actually sounded great and smooth, and it is better than "USB input of Spring 3 KTE" on my side.

Before this, we know that M-Scaler is a good partner for DAVE ; GAIA is a good partner for Terminator-Plus.

Now I think Hydra HUB might be a good partner for Spring 3 KTE (maybe also a good partner for May) and I really recommend this combo to anyone interested.


----------



## mantraone

elf21400 said:


> Hi, I just prepared my collaboration:
> -> Audiobyte Hydra HUB with Ferrum HYPSOS, connected to Spring 3 KTE via i2s.
> 
> Hydra HUB is a good DDC to work with Spring 3 KTE via i2s.
> ...


Interesting but let me tell you that about roon support the HydraHUB is not certified.

For this reason I moved to DDC like Gustard U18 directly on Roon rock dedicated Fanless PC.

Other question about HUB I2S pinout, for me sound strange that works with Rockna Pinout the Holo Spring 3, the ALT1 isn't the Holo pinout? (Mode 4 on Gustard U18 worked perfecty)


----------



## k900733

Finally, my s3 KTE has arrived! I just hooked up and play music for warm-up and run-in. Will start listening later tonight😋.


----------



## searchingtom

k900733 said:


> Finally, my s3 KTE has arrived! I just hooked up and play music for warm-up and run-in. Will start listening later tonight😋.


What was the total transit time may I ask (from order date to arrival) ?


----------



## k900733

searchingtom said:


> What was the total transit time may I ask (from order date to arrival) ?


It's quite quite long. Order placed to Kitsune US on 6/27; received DHL tracking on 7/29; delivered on 8/1.


----------



## elf21400 (Aug 1, 2022)

mantraone said:


> Interesting but let me tell you that about roon support the HydraHUB is not certified.
> 
> For this reason I moved to DDC like Gustard U18 directly on Roon rock dedicated Fanless PC.
> 
> Other question about HUB I2S pinout, for me sound strange that works with Rockna Pinout the Holo Spring 3, the ALT1 isn't the Holo pinout? (Mode 4 on Gustard U18 worked perfecty)


Hi Mantraone,
Many thanks for your additional information, Hydra HUB is a really interesting device.

Yes, so far the HydraHUB is not certified by Roon and I saw someone asked the Audiobyte staff in a related post and Audiobyte staff said they would deal with it as soon as possible, but I think the current situation is still not passed the certification, hope it can gets certified soon, so your understanding is correct.

About i2s pinout, we can refer to the user manual to see the following four i2s settings:
HOLO / ALT1 / ALT2 / ALT3. (as attachment)
If we want Hydra HUB to connect to Spring 3, we need to set i2s to ALT1 mode on Spring 3 side.
On my side, from the previous Hydra Z to the current Hydra HUB, the same settings are used, and it works well.


----------



## mfgillia

k900733 said:


> It's quite quite long. Order placed to Kitsune US on 6/27; received DHL tracking on 7/29; delivered on 8/1.


Mine took about six weeks ordering from Hong Kong. Was painful to wait but ultimately well worth it - love this DAC. 😍


----------



## jonh1

Hi all!

Tell me, who listened to Holo May 1 or 2 levels?
I know that the KTE modification adds resolution, space and speed. And I was wondering how Spring 3 in the maximum configuration of KTE will be able to "catch up" with Holo May in the basic modification?


----------



## ARCXENOS (Aug 5, 2022)

jonh1 said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Tell me, who listened to Holo May 1 or 2 levels?
> I know that the KTE modification adds resolution, space and speed. And I was wondering how Spring 3 in the maximum configuration of KTE will be able to "catch up" with Holo May in the basic modification?


I had owned the S3 KTE + Preamp, and I currently am using the May L2. Honestly, its hard to put a raw % on how different the S3 KTE vs the May L2 is, while the tonality of both is similar (i.e. Holo Audio's "house sound", general smoothness), the May is more aggressive and I perceive micro details a little bit more clearer, based on my experience in my setup.

I think the S3 KTE is probably in the sweet spot of price : performance ratio, definitely better than May L2 in that aspect, in my opinion I would spitball maybe a 5% difference between the 2. If I didn't ordered my S3 with the preamp, I think I would had been very content with the S3 KTE enough


----------



## spacecase25

Still waiting to see a complete set of measurements for the spring 3 😕

The loaner list on SBF just seems to keep getting longer before it gets anywhere near atomicbob 

A few folks have released "preview" measurements, but that's about it.


----------



## jonh1

ARCXENOS said:


> I had owned the S3 KTE + Preamp, and I currently am using the May L2. Honestly, its hard to put a raw % on how different the S3 KTE vs the May L2 is, while the tonality of both is similar (i.e. Holo Audio's "house sound", general smoothness), the May is more aggressive and I perceive micro details a little bit more clearer, based on my experience in my setup.
> 
> I think the S3 KTE is probably in the sweet spot of price : performance ratio, definitely better than May L2 in that aspect, in my opinion I would spitball maybe a 5% difference between the 2. If I didn't ordered my S3 with the preamp, I think I would had been very content with the S3 KTE enough


Thanks for your reply!

If you don't mind, I'll share some more thoughts. 

I have owned Holo Spring and Holo Spring 2 all levels from 1 to KTE. And also Holo May 2lvl. I also wrote a lot of reviews on them. Including an overview of the three provisions of Holo.  Since I've owned every Holo Dac except the Spring 3, I know their handwriting very well.

And when I listened to May lvl2 - everyone liked it, but lacked the imposing and softness of Spring 2. And when I listened to Spring 2, I lacked the resolution and clarity of May..

Could Spring 3 be the middle ground between the two? So that the resolution was good, but at the same time it was softer and more imposing?


----------



## ARCXENOS

jonh1 said:


> Thanks for your reply!
> 
> If you don't mind, I'll share some more thoughts.
> 
> ...


I have not used the earlier models, so I cannot comment on the S2 directly, but if you want smoothness, in my opinion yes, I perceived the S3 to be smoother than the May L2.

 I did previously read from other users that the S3 is more detailed than the S2, so if that is true, I believe it might fit your criteria of being a middleground between the May and S2. In fact I know some other ex-S3 users that disliked how smooth the S3 was, I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder ears of the listener.


----------



## jonh1

ARCXENOS said:


> I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder ears of the listener.


I completely agree)



ARCXENOS said:


> I have not used the earlier models, so I cannot comment on the S2 directly, but if you want smoothness, in my opinion yes, I perceived the S3 to be smoother than the May L2.
> 
> I did previously read from other users that the S3 is more detailed than the S2, so if that is true, I believe it might fit your criteria of being a middleground between the May and S2


Thank you - this answer is more than enough for me!


----------



## jonh1 (Aug 5, 2022)

I started digging in this direction, and came across an interesting comparison of Holo Audio May KTE & Spring 3 KTE. And here, surprisingly, the author of the video was disappointed with the third Spring, unlike May, which he put much higher than the first. That is, the differences for him were more than significant.

And this comparison goes against the opinion of GoldenSound, in which the author assures that the difference between the third Spring and May is insignificant, and amounts to a few percent.

In general, I thought friends ...


----------



## 1Audiophool

ARCXENOS said:


> If I didn't ordered my S3 with the preamp, I think I would had been very content with the S3 KTE enough


I’m not sure what you meant by this…Is there something about having the preamp that changes the Spring3 Kte. 
I’ve been trying to decide between May Kte and S3kte + preamp. 
I like the idea of having the pre for the future. Does it negatively impact the performance of the dac in some way?


----------



## ARCXENOS

1Audiophool said:


> I’m not sure what you meant by this…Is there something about having the preamp that changes the Spring3 Kte.
> I’ve been trying to decide between May Kte and S3kte + preamp.
> I like the idea of having the pre for the future. Does it negatively impact the performance of the dac in some way?



The Preamp module is very good for its cost, I just disliked the inflexibility of being chained to a preamp. Originally I purchased it because I was thinking of going speakers + using the AHB2 for the susvara, but due to certain circumstances I decided to stick to headphones (and headphone amps) only, I simply would prefer to not add an extra layer in my chain. 

The preamp is not just digital attenuation, its an actual analog preamp that has a hotter output at max volume, yes I know lowering the volume would be sufficient for minimal clipping/distortion, but you know how illogical thoughts could arise in this hobby... Just a personal problem for me, do not be worried if you want the preamp module.


----------



## robecom

soulrider4ever said:


> Ok Lumin U2 input initial impressions: PLL On for all.
> 
> Coaxial - For me this was one of the best outputs from the Lumin.  Very natural, lifelike presentation.  Good PRAT and just sounded really great.
> 
> ...


Which Spring 3 level did you use to connect to the U2?  L2 or KTE? Just curious on your USB impression.


----------



## soulrider4ever

robecom said:


> Which Spring 3 level did you use to connect to the U2?  L2 or KTE? Just curious on your USB impression.


KTE.  It was great, but not my favorite input - AES for me was just that smidge better.


----------



## smutnyjoe

I wanted to let you know that I hate Spring 3 KTE.

Just joking. It's a magnificent piece of audio gear! Too good. I mean, since I got it a few months ago, I'm struggling with a decision on which rig to keep:
TT2
TT2->v550
Spring3 KTE -> v550

And still cannot decide. Each is great but slightly different. Typical audiophile problems I guess


----------



## KrauserX91

Did anyone gaming with the spring 3? I ask because I read someone who bought the Gumby and Ares II and ended selling the Gumby. Days later he noticed the Ares had sound delays on video games and watching videos, and recommended it if you go to use it as a dedicated source for music or stick with Gumby if you are using A DAC for general purpose, gaming and music listening. Iwas wondering if these delays between image and sound could be a thing from R2R based DACs, or just the Ares or defective unit?


----------



## Aquileolus

smutnyjoe said:


> I wanted to let you know that I hate Spring 3 KTE.
> 
> Just joking. It's a magnificent piece of audio gear! Too good. I mean, since I got it a few months ago, I'm struggling with a decision on which rig to keep:
> TT2
> ...


I also own both Spring 3 KTE and TT2, struggled for a long time trying to decide which to keep, ends up keeping both  
One for headphone and the other for speakers, and I also swap them time to time


----------



## kingoftown1

KrauserX91 said:


> Did anyone gaming with the spring 3? I ask because I read someone who bought the Gumby and Ares II and ended selling the Gumby. Days later he noticed the Ares had sound delays on video games and watching videos, and recommended it if you go to use it as a dedicated source for music or stick with Gumby if you are using A DAC for general purpose, gaming and music listening. Iwas wondering if these delays between image and sound could be a thing from R2R based DACs, or just the Ares or defective unit?


The variable delay is supposedly caused by the FIFO buffer.  The spring doesn't have this issue.


----------



## KrauserX91

kingoftown1 said:


> The variable delay is supposedly caused by the FIFO buffer.  The spring doesn't have this issue.


Is good the holo spring 3 for a hybrid system then? I mean, To use it with speakers and headphones and for music and gaming , or isn’t worth the upgrade for this purpose if I have the bifrost? What’s the difference between lvl 1 and 2?


----------



## Mark6088 (Aug 28, 2022)

BlakeT said:


> Terminator Plus+Gaia DDC _via_ I2S *>>* Terminator Plus via _usb_ *>* Venus 2+Iris DDC _via_ I2S *=* Spring 3 KTE _via_ usb *>* Venus 2 _via_ usb *>>* original Terminator > Qutest + LPS _via_ bnc > Yggy A2 > Qutest + LPS _via _usb *>* Qutest _via_ any input
> 
> my ears, brain, systems, sonic preferences and priorities etc.


I am currently having a terrible time deciding between purchasing the Denafrips Venus II with Iris and the Holo Spring 3 KTE.  You have them tied in your hierarchy.  Which one do you believe delivers the most clear and concise highs?   Which one is more detailed, especially in the upper registers?


----------



## BlakeT (Aug 28, 2022)

Mark6088 said:


> I am currently having a terrible time deciding between purchasing the Denafrips Venus II with Iris and the Holo Spring 3 KTE.  You have them tied in your hierarchy.  Which one do you believe delivers the most clear and concise highs?   Which one is more detailed, especially in the upper registers?



Assuming you are taking the preamp variable out of the equation..

Venus II is more open/airy sounding, if you use Venus II in OS vs NOS.

If you add the Iris to the Venus II and use the I2S connection, the Venus II is more detailed and the difference between the two DAC's in terms of which one is more more open/airy sways even more in favor of the Venus II (as compared to Spring 3 KTE, via USB, in NOS).

This isn't to say Spring 3 KTE isn't detailed, open or airy- just a relative comparison.

Note I always used Spring 3 KTE via NOS and USB.  I always used Venus II in OS via I2S through a Gaia or Iris DDC.  So not quite apples to apples.

Which sound you prefer will depend on associated gear and subjective preferences.  Both are terrific options.

EDIT: If you eliminate the DDC, and just compared these two DAC's on their own, I'd take the Spring 3 KTE over the Venus II.


----------



## Mark6088

BlakeT said:


> Assuming you are taking the preamp variable out of the equation..
> 
> Venus II is more open/airy sounding, if you use Venus II in OS vs NOS.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the added information!  My system tends slightly warm, so I do not want a DAC that accentuates that.  The ladder DACs tend to have a bit warmer/smoother sound that I like, but not if it takes detail away.  I had a Pontus II which I really liked, but felt it was not detailed enough in my system, so I sold it.


----------



## BlakeT

I never owned the Pontus but sources I trust compared and they found the Venus II to be quite a different sound than Pontus.  Comparatively, they found Venus to be much more open, airy, detailed, tighter focused.  Pontus, more rounded, fuller, warm.


----------



## Mark6088

BlakeT said:


> I never owned the Pontus but sources I trust compared and they found the Venus II to be quite a different sound than Pontus.  Comparatively, they found Venus to be much more open, airy, detailed, tighter focused.  Pontus, more rounded, fuller, warm.


Thanks for the confirmation. "More open, airy, detailed, tighter focused" is exactly what I am looking for.  A few online reviewers characterized the difference between the Pontus II and the Venus II similarly.  But others did not.  Very difficult to make a decision when there are conflicting user and "expert" views.  I certainly appreciate your help!


----------



## koso (Sep 6, 2022)

Mark6088 said:


> I am currently having a terrible time deciding between purchasing the Denafrips Venus II with Iris and the Holo Spring 3 KTE.  You have them tied in your hierarchy.  Which one do you believe delivers the most clear and concise highs?   Which one is more detailed, especially in the upper registers?


I also had Spring 3 KTE and a Venus II in my setup for a few months. First, I have to say that both are great DACs! I had plenty of time comparing the two side by side in the same setup and even then, I had a very hard time deciding which DAC is better. Depends on exact setup, quality of source and maybe mainly on your preferred input. I can agree with @BlakeT and I would say that when you compare just pure DACs (with no reclocker in the chain) Spring 3 KTE is slightly better. This is especially true when comparing USB inputs. Spring 3 KTE has better usb implementation than Venus II in my opinion. However, when you add good DDC (Denafrips Gaia or Hermes) to Venus II and use I2S input it is hard to tell the difference in sound quality. In such case, it's just a matter of nuances and sound preference. Anyway, I have decided to keep Spring 3 KTE, for my ears it is more neutral sounding one, while maintaining airiness and naturalness of the Venus II sound character. It also seems to me that the Spring KTE can extract richer harmonic tones from the recording (this is especially evident on well-recorded acoustic instruments like piano or guitar ).

Oh, and one note. Keep in mind that Spring 3 KTE is NOS only dac (unlike the Spring 2 or May).


----------



## shwnwllms

koso said:


> I also had Spring 3 KTE and a Venus II in my setup for a few months. First, I have to say that both are great DACs! I had plenty of time comparing the two side by side in the same setup and even then, I had a very hard time deciding which DAC is better. Depends on exact setup, quality of source and maybe mainly on your preferred input. I can agree with @BlakeT and I would say that when you compare just pure DACs (with no reclocker in the chain) Spring 3 KTE is slightly better. This is especially true when comparing USB inputs. Spring 3 KTE has better usb implementation than Venus II in my opinion. However, when you add good DDC (Denafrips Gaia or Hermes) to Venus II and use I2S input it is hard to tell the difference in sound quality. In such case, it's just a matter of nuances and sound preference. Anyway, I have decided to keep Spring 3 KTE, for my ears it is more neutral sounding one, while maintaining airiness and naturalness of the Venus II sound character. It also seems to me that the Spring KTE can extract richer harmonic tones from the recording (this is especially evident on well-recorded acoustic instruments like piano or guitar ).
> 
> Oh, and one note. Keep in mind that Spring 3 KTE is NOS only dac (unlike the Spring 2 or May).



Did you happen to compare DSD (upsampled through HQPlayer) between the Spring 3 KTE and Venus II?


----------



## koso

shwnwllms said:


> Did you happen to compare DSD (upsampled through HQPlayer) between the Spring 3 KTE and Venus II?


No. I have no PC in the audio chain, so no up-sampler available. However I did compared DSD and I liked DSD presentation via Spring 3 more.


----------



## shwnwllms

koso said:


> No. I have no PC in the audio chain, so no up-sampler available. However I did compared DSD and I liked DSD presentation via Spring 3 more.



Thanks for the feedback (I think a Spring 3 KTE is in my near future)


----------



## GoldenOne

shwnwllms said:


> Did you happen to compare DSD (upsampled through HQPlayer) between the Spring 3 KTE and Venus II?


IMO DSD was not great on the Denafrips stuff and I much preferred PCM
They don't go into detail about how they're converting DSD, but there is no visible separate circuitry for a DSD converter, and when testing, DSD and PCM had exactly the same distortion profile, suggesting they are being played on the same hardware.

They say '6-bit DSD' so my assumption would be they're converting DSD to a high sample rate 6-Bit PCM and playing on the main ladder.

If I get another denafrips DAC in I'll look into this a bit more, but subjectively


----------



## shwnwllms (Sep 7, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> IMO DSD was not great on the Denafrips stuff and I much preferred PCM
> They don't go into detail about how they're converting DSD, but there is no visible separate circuitry for a DSD converter, and when testing, DSD and PCM had exactly the same distortion profile, suggesting they are being played on the same hardware.
> 
> They say '6-bit DSD' so my assumption would be they're converting DSD to a high sample rate 6-Bit PCM and playing on the main ladder.
> ...



From what I gather it’s very similar to Jussi’s open source DAC the DSC-1

https://www.signalyst.com/hardware.html

DSC1 - 33 multi level conversion - 1 Bit DSD
Pontus II - 32 step FIR filter - 6 Bit DSD

The Pontus II would then be converting the 6 Bit DSD to 1 Bit DSD so that brings the total to 33 multi level conversion.

I do prefer the sound of DSD using HQPlayer on the Pontus II but don’t see a reason to stick with Denafrips if I decide to upgrade. Everything past the Pontus uses the same DSD architecture so the upgrade for me would be minimal. I’ll likely be selling my Pontus II  / Iris and moving to a Spring 3 KTE sometime soon.

*EDIT*



GoldenOne said:


> IMO DSD was not great on the Denafrips stuff and I much preferred PCM



Or maybe I just need to take HQPlayer out of my chain for awhile. I switched it up today and am listening to native PCM (HQPlayer disabled) Pontus II in NOS and it sounds significantly better than I remembered.


----------



## samoloko

koso said:


> Oh, and one note. Keep in mind that Spring 3 KTE is NOS only dac (unlike the Spring 2 or May).



Thank you for detailed comparison between Holo Audio Spring 3 and Denafrips Venus II
On about Us section site of Holo Audio USA they say that Indeed Spring Is NOS but can do OS https://www.kitsunehifi.com/about/
I am Interested at OS functionality - I would be glad to know how can I use Spring 3 KTE edition In OS mode


----------



## koso (Sep 26, 2022)

samoloko said:


> Thank you for detailed comparison between Holo Audio Spring 3 and Denafrips Venus II
> On about Us section site of Holo Audio USA they say that Indeed Spring Is NOS but can do OS https://www.kitsunehifi.com/about/
> I am Interested at OS functionality - I would be glad to know how can I use Spring 3 KTE edition In OS mode


As I already wrote, Spring 3 is NOS only DAC. There is no internal oversampling. You can still use exteral oversampling though. There is outdated info on Kitsune web in “about us” section (your link). This info is related to former Spring DAC models (original Spring and Spring 2).


----------



## BrainSalat (Sep 26, 2022)

Hi,

I just got my Spring3 KTE (+preamp) DAC a few weeks ago, which I use to feed my tube amp. This came to upgrade my RME ADI-2 PRO.






Is it just me or psychoacoustics? but I have the feeling the DAC has a long break-in period. Even after weeks of use I feel like every time it sounds better.


----------



## koso (Sep 26, 2022)

BrainSalat said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just got my Spring3 KTE (+preamp) DAC a few weeks ago, which I use to feed my tube amp. This came to upgrade my RME ADI-2 PRO.
> 
> ...


Your hearing is good, no psychoacoustics involved. Spring 3 KTE has legendary long burn-in period. 500, 600, maybe even 800 hours, depending on the conditions.
Once I have created Spring 3 burn in “diagram” on another forum, which has generated a lot of laughter here and there, but I do believe it is not far from reality.


----------



## Menkau-ra

koso said:


> Your hearing is good, no psychoacoustics involved. Spring 3 KTE has legendary long burn-in period. 500, 600, maybe even 800 hours, depending on the conditions.
> Once I have created Spring 3 burn in “diagram” on another forum, which has generated a lot of laughter here and there, but I do believe it is not far from reality.


Can you just leave it on or you need to play music through it?


----------



## Marutks

just leave it on  ( AFAIK )


----------



## shwnwllms

Play music (but your amp doesn’t need to be on)


----------



## koso (Sep 26, 2022)

Menkau-ra said:


> Can you just leave it on or you need to play music through it?


It is recommended to play music through DAC to speed up burn in. Those 500 hours was meant with actual playback. So you can leave source (streamer or CD player or any pc source) and DAC on, music on repeat. Amp OFF. The trick is to leave DAC circuits running (power supply, input circuits, clocks and ladder circuit).

I was using one special playlist (on my streamer) in repeat for burn in. There was all kind of music in variety of sampling rates and DSD on the playlist. Holo Spring 3 DAC has separate ladders for DSD and PCM, also separate clocks for 44.1 kHz and 48 kHz based sampling rates, so it is good to use all kind of sampling rates to burn in all parts of DAC evenly.

Of course, you can just listen to music and wait. But with this one DAC I can only recommend to do some kind of burn in procedure when not listening to speed process up.


----------



## kingoftown1

Is anyone else using a Spring 3 + Jcat USB XE + HQPlayer combo?  I'm trying out my USB input for the first time, and I'm not able to play above 768k.  Using HQPlayer 4 and the most recent Spring USB driver


----------



## devilboy

This isn't my area at all but something similar happened to me a while ago. On my Mac I had to go in the midi settings and change the incoming sampling rate to support xyz rate.


----------



## kingoftown1

Welp, I guess since I'm here I'll share some quick, jumbled comparison impressions.  Sorry if the specific set of components and multi-variable changes don't prove to be too helpful.  Impressions are with speakers, so ymmv and all.

My standard digital setup is:
DIY fanless server w/ local files, Nenon ULPS V3 into HDPlex 800w DC-ATX, Jcat XE USB ->Inakustik Referenz USB -> SU-6 -> Furutech HF-X NCF HDMI -> Spring 3 level 2.  In this setup an HDPlex 200w powers the Jcat, and a Ferrum Hypsos powers the SU-6. Everything's plugged into a Niagara 1200 with Neotech NEP-3002 cables.

I was interested in trying both having the 384K-limited Singxer out of the chain, trying the Spring's USB input, doing some higher PCM upsampling in HQPlayer, and powering the XE USB with the Hypsos instead of the HDPlex.  I was hoping the advantages of a better psu on the Jcat and higher upsampling would balance out the missing SU-6.  The new setup is:
same server w/ JCAT XE -> Inakustik Referenz USB -> Spring 3, with the Hypsos powering the Jcat.

Taking the extra components out and upsampling to 768k, it seems like I was trading away tonal density for increased low level detail.  Notes were noticeably less tangible. Imaging was a bit more 2D, but with slightly more specific placement.  Maybe that would change with increased use on the USB module, but I really like my setup as is, so I switched back.

My takeaway was: 
1) yeah, i really do need a better power supply for the Jcat (kind of leaning towards a DIY Sean Jacobs DC4 or Plixir), and
2) I'll continue to dream of a next-gen Singxer DDC that allows higher sample rates....Ideally one that takes DC power.


----------



## Tobes

After reading a lot of impressions and reviews I've ordered a Spring 3 KTE.
I've had my current Benchmark DAC3 for about 4yrs - previously owned a couple of Grace DACs, Yggy A1, Directstream Jr and briefly the Qutest and a Topping D70 - but this is my first discrete R2R. 
I've used HQPlayer for >6yrs but never really had a DAC that would allow me to experiment fully, so this was part of the attraction of the pure NOS Spring 3.
Hopefully I like the Spring, almost certain to be a change from the DAC3.


----------



## devilboy

Tobes said:


> After reading a lot of impressions and reviews I've ordered a Spring 3 KTE.
> I've had my current Benchmark DAC3 for about 4yrs - previously owned a couple of Grace DACs, Yggy A1, Directstream Jr and briefly the Qutest and a Topping D70 - but this is my first discrete R2R.
> I've used HQPlayer for >6yrs but never really had a DAC that would allow me to experiment fully, so this was part of the attraction of the pure NOS Spring 3.
> Hopefully I like the Spring, almost certain to be a change from the DAC3.


Nice! Welcome to the club.
Before the Spring 3KTE I was a Metrum and Sonnet guy...(6 total).  The S3KTE has the warmth of those with more detail and expansive staging IMO. 
Enjoy.


----------



## Tobes

devilboy said:


> Nice! Welcome to the club.
> Before the Spring 3KTE I was a Metrum and Sonnet guy...(6 total).  The S3KTE has the warmth of those with more detail and expansive staging IMO.
> Enjoy.


Do you use the S3 with external OS or just its native NOS?


----------



## devilboy

Tobes said:


> Do you use the S3 with external OS or just its native NOS?


Just NOS. I feed it strictly 44.1 via USB.


----------



## shwnwllms

Tobes said:


> Do you use the S3 with external OS or just its native NOS?



Just recently purchased a May KTE (with the upgraded USB Module). Native files in NOS are very good on their own but DSD512 (AMSDM 512+fs) is spectacular. Better than DSD256 (ASDM7ECV2) which is what I was using on my Pontus II and sounds a bit thin comparatively. 

Gauss-xla (1x)
Gauss-hires-lp (nx)

Those are my preferred filters. Remember to set your DAC bits to 20 if upsampling to PCM rather than DSD


----------



## lsantista

I believed it should be 20 bits even if DSD, or shouldn't it?


----------



## shwnwllms

lsantista said:


> I believed it should be 20 bits even if DSD, or shouldn't it?



Sure. But that setting has no impact when you upsample to DSD.


----------



## Tobes

Well the Spring 3 KTE is on back order (4wks) here is Aust. 
So in the meantime the Aussie distributor is sending me his demo S3 KTE and May L2 so I can make an informed decision in my own system.
Should be an interesting comparing the two and indeed comparing to my current Benchmark DAC3 - which I still find to sound excellent, especially in my speaker setup.


----------



## kingoftown1

It'll be good to have another point of comparison between the two.  Not enough floating around imo.


----------



## Josh05

Tobes said:


> Well the Spring 3 KTE is on back order (4wks) here is Aust.
> So in the meantime the Aussie distributor is sending me his demo S3 KTE and May L2 so I can make an informed decision in my own system.
> Should be an interesting comparing the two and indeed comparing to my current Benchmark DAC3 - which I still find to sound excellent, especially in my speaker setup.



Looking forward to hearing your impressions on Spring vs May as there are not a lot out there.


----------



## Tobes

Josh05 said:


> Looking forward to hearing your impressions on Spring vs May as there are not a lot out there.


Yeah looking forward to hearing what all the fuss is about.
I plan to connect the dacs with identical usb cables to my headless Mac Mini running RoonServer (external GUI control).
The XLR outputs from the dacs will go to the Benchmark HPA4 using identical XLR cables.
I believe the demo S3 has the volume control option but I can set to max (or whatever) and level match with the HPA4 which has fine 0.5dB adjustment on inputs (+/- 10dB).
Then in Roon I can group the two DACs and, with the same music, do instantaneous switches between them on the HPA4.
Roon will be handy for switching in/out external OS as well. I have HQPlayer but that will be more clunky to switch in and out for comparisons.
I'll do individual listening as well, but this should be handy to identify some traits. 
Normally I run Roon over ethernet via an EtherRegen switch and have a Sonore ultraRendu endpoint connecting via usb to the dac. 
After I do some comparisons I'll probably try the dacs individually in that setup arrangement.


----------



## lsantista (Oct 13, 2022)

Agree using hqp it would be clunkier and takes more time which harms my memory when I try any sort of AB test.
Still doing it a few times should be a worthwhile effort of how users really use their holos.


----------



## Tobes (Oct 14, 2022)

The Holo dacs have arrived!
Only been on for less than an hour.
Running grouped in Roon, NOS mode for starters.
Very preliminary impression listening via my ATC speakers (HP's later sorry) playing some 44.1K Jimmy Wahlsteen fingerstyle guitar:
The May L2 is more focussed, detailed and atmospheric (ambiance/space). The Spring is a bit softer on transients but also 'drier' in terms of ambiance. The May L2 sounds more interesting and involving to me - very early impression though. 

EDIT: but even as I listen now the Spring seems to be catching up! - perhaps best to leave further comment until these dacs are fully warmed up.
FWIW, usb cables are identical Oyaide Neo+ black version, XLR cables are identical length Canare L-4E6S star quad/Neutrik connectors.


----------



## Josh05

Tobes said:


> The Holo dacs have arrived!
> Only been on for less than an hour.
> Running grouped in Roon, NOS mode for starters.
> Very preliminary impression listening via my ATC speakers (HP's later sorry) playing some 44.1K Jimmy Wahlsteen fingerstyle guitar:
> ...


Awesome Tobes, thanks for the early impressions!


----------



## Tobes (Oct 15, 2022)

These are snippets from day 1 listening between the Holo May L2 and Spring 3 KTE
Note: these are demo units loaned from the Aust distributor - https://indiehifi.com.au/ - and likely have considerable hours on the clock, i.e not new units.
I have no affiliation with Hugo other than being a potential customer.
Apologies because there is a bit of repetition in the observations.

TL;DR: I found the May L2 better at reproduction of space, focus, detail and tonal realness as well a being more composed and refined. The Spring 3 is still very good - we're talking 'audiophile' differences, not massive.

*Listening on the ATC SCM100ASLT active speakers.*
(Disclosure: despite being registered on Head-Fi since Headwize was around, speakers are my preferred mode of listening).

Jimmy Wahlsteen - 'It's your Favorite'. 44.1K/16. This was the Wahlsteen track that was playing when I made the above first impression. Not the greatest sounding but it picks up the slightly softer transient sound of the S3 compared to the May (though when I went back after about 8hrs of warm up I thought the gap wasn't as big). There are other things to note, things like taps on the guitar body sound more realistic, more wood and hollow body timbre.




Jimmy Heath/Cecile McLorin Salvant - 'Left alone'. 96/24 NOS. More precise and separated images on May L2. More depth and better separation. Better textural detail and tangibility to instruments/vocalist




Erykah Badu - 'Cleva'. 44.1/24 NOS. Both sounded great on this track. However switching between the dacs the May sounds even more spacious and maintains its advantage in focus and detail. The May sounds more 'on-point' with pace due to the previous advantages - tauter, more together. But if I was listening to the S3 in isolation I certainly wouldn't quibble




Y'akoto - 'I Agree'. 44/24 NOS. Ditto this track - May L2 snappier, more pacy. More minutia too.




Emily King - 'Radio'. 96/24 NOS. Really lovely vocals on both with this track. Just a bit more presence and tangibility with the May.





*Some HP listening via the HPA4.*
With either the budget K712 or the upmarket Utopia, both the Holo dacs sounded more spacious and relaxed (in a good way) than my recollection of the Benchmark DAC3. Very nice.
The advantages of the May on speakers transferred to HP listening - more focus, spaciousness and ambient + tonal detail.

Dominique Fils-Aime - 'Birds'. 88K/24 NOS. On this audio chestnut both were impressive. Listening on the Utopia I noticed the May also had more refinement, a more grainless resolve, particularly on the vocals.




Its worth noting, for balance, on some less well recorded material I would switch back and forth and the two dacs sounded sound pretty much the same. Then another track would come on and the differences would emerge.

Tash Sultana - 'Musk'. 48/24 NOS. With this track on the May the opening finger snaps are just more fleshy and realistic, the ambience less dry and the overall sound more complex and resolved.




Radiohead - 'Paranoid Android'. Trying something a bit busier and with Roon *pcm OS to 705.6K.*
I thought the OS obscured the differences between the dacs a bit, but the traits mentioned above are still evident.
The May sounds a bit more composed in the sense of maintaining individual elements and separation. I find the May a more relaxing listening experience during climactic passages on this album. The S3 is a bit more monochromatic in tonal terms. I reiterate, I'm being picky here.




Midnight Oil - 'Short Memory'. Still with Roon *pcm OS to 705.6K*. The S3 is keeping up with bass impact - its in the detail and tonal nuance of the instrumental interludes where the May shows its mettle and, again, better space.





Jack Marshall - _Sounds!_ Still with Roon *pcm OS to 705.6K*.
This is really acoustic audio noodling - but noodling by two very accomplished musicians!
Telling because of the range of percussion sounds. Pretty much everything here sounds more tangible and real on the May - even the whistling on 'Am I blue' and the vocalisations on 'Sposin'.
Like I said, this is kinda kitsch stuff, but somehow engrossing on the May!
I think if naturally recorded acoustic music features heavily in your listening the May is definitely worth stretching to.





Summing this session up:
Personally, I think the differences make the May L2 a more involving and immersive listen than the Spring 3 - but remember we are talking about audiophile minutia.
In my case, with a fair amount of acoustic fare and vocal music on my playlist, it has to be the May L2 for me.
I don't want to spend the extra dosh, but think I'd regret if I didn't.

Note: HQP testing yet to come, possibly with even better results than Roon OS  - but I can't see it changing the result between the two dacs


----------



## Contrails

So the only difference between S2 KTE and S3 KTE is S3 has better USB implementation?


----------



## mfgillia

Contrails said:


> So the only difference between S2 KTE and S3 KTE is S3 has better USB implementation?


Evidently not - some reviewers have commented the difference in sound quality between the S2 and S3 is greater than the difference between the S3 and May.


----------



## Jay Smith

Anyone compare Spring1 level 3 vs Spring 3?


----------



## lsantista (Oct 15, 2022)

thank you @Tobes and to your dealer. the spring 3 vs May topic has been going for a year already (is it, right?) and we only have maybe a handfull of side by side comparissons in user's own system..
Maybe with HQP the difference will be a bit larger, but that's just a guess. Id be surprised if it is _smaller_ though. If taking requests already (jk), could you add any classical music you enjoy (maybe some orchestral work so you can comment in case there are major discrepancies in metals, strings, percussion etc) to your comparisson? Edit: I enjoyed your selection as is!


----------



## Tobes

lsantista said:


> Maybe with HQP the difference will be a bit larger, but that's just a guess. Id be surprised if it is _smaller_ though. If taking requests already (jk), could you add any classical music you enjoy (maybe some orchestral work so you can comment in case there are major discrepancies in metals, strings, percussion etc) to your comparisson? Edit: I enjoyed your selection as is!


Yes, I should have listened to some classical - will get on to that.

I have briefly experimented with HQPlayer on the May tonight using the following recommended settings for M1 Mini. 



I run HQPlayer on a separate M1 from the RoonServer M1 mini, then into the EtherRegen/ultraRendu to the dac. With DSD the M1 can do DSD256 without issue so I started with that. 
A mixed bag for me at this stage - very wide/deep and discriminated soundstage, but somehow it sounded a little 'clamped' and 'dryish' to me. 

However I did get a nice improvement moving the dac to the EtherRegen/ultraRendu network endpoint setup using Roon _without HQPlayer_ - i.e. instead of usb direct off the RoonServer Mac M1.
That sounds uber present and tactile with the May running just 44.1 in NOS mode - though Roon pcm OS was great too. Have to try it with the Spring 3 - its a manual cable swap, so no quick button changes.


----------



## shwnwllms

Tobes said:


> With DSD the M1 can do DSD256 without issue so I started with that.
> A mixed bag for me at this stage - very wide/deep and discriminated soundstage, but somehow it sounded a little 'clamped' and 'dryish' to me.



Try DSD 512 (AMSDM7 512+fs) with the same filter settings. I noticed it opened up my May KTE significantly moving from DSD256 to DSD512 (and I didn’t miss the Extended Compensation on the modulator)


----------



## kingoftown1

On the PCM side, upsampling with LNS15 + Sinc L (or Sinc Mx if your system needs a bit more body) is pretty nice too.


----------



## Tobes (Oct 16, 2022)

@lsantista I played through some selections from the Sibelius symphony above 96/24 NOS mode with both dacs back on the Mac mini usb > ifi usb hub. Playback via my ATC speakers, my preference for Classical music.
I was surprised to hear that the S3 was noticeably more 'steely' on massed string climaxes, ditto the woodwinds a bit piercing on climaxes.
The May more composed and natural - as well as having the aforementioned advantage on rendering space and individual image focus better.




On this Chesky release both dacs sounded impressively spacious - very deep wide and clear soundstage on this 88K/24 recording (NOS playback).
Wide dynamics, wood blocks, triangles in sparse pensive passages and powerful tympani and brass climaxes. The May all the way with this one, I thought clarity of individual instrument tone - those triangles and wood blocks - significantly better and likewise the composure with climactic fortissimo passages. I couldn't see anyone choosing the S3 here.


I'm no classical expert - far from it - but if Classical music makes up much of your 'diet' I'd definitely go with the May, budget allowing.

Edit:



Berlioz: The Damnation of Faust - 192/24 recording, listening in NOS mode on HP's this time.
This recording is from 1960 (sometimes I wonder what progress has been made?).
Here individuals in the chorus sections are more distinct and again the (huge) fortissimo climaxes more controlled with the May.
I thought both dacs did a good job on the voices of the main protagonists but the May's clearer rendering of detail and clarity of individuals and composure was an advantage with this music.




Both sound lovely on JSB Goldberg Variations - 48/24, NOS mode.
String tone and flute with less edge or bite on May, harp with better focus and space around it on the May, and overall better sense of positioning.
Something else to note though, with the May (perhaps particularly on classical) music makes more sense and has more emotional 'pull' - perhaps something to do with tone/timbre and the clearer 'view' or maybe just synergy with my system.
The HPA4 pre/headphone amp is an 'as is' sort of component - no 'seasoning' or smoothing.
I think with with this type of setup there is a clear preference for the May.
I wonder if I was listening to the S3 alone - without the instant switch - whether I'd have anything to complain about?
Remember this is a relative comparison not an individual assessment of achievement. Then there is the $ value to consider.




Moving onto Jazz - this classic in 96/24, NOS mode.
From 1959 and instruments are panned hard left and right, but great sound.
I can still hear more air around cymbals and space around Paul Chambers bass on the bowed solo from 'Bags & Trane', but not sure it matters that much, both the S3 and May sound great. Coltrane's soloing sounds a tad smoother and so do Jackson's vibes on the May, but the S3 sounds fine.
On the more pacy 'Be-Bop' I'd take the May though for its additional refinement.

A thought occurs to me. I wonder what the Spring 3 L2 sounds like without the Kitsune 'enhancements'? Would it be just a bit more relaxed?


----------



## Tobes

kingoftown1 said:


> On the PCM side, upsampling with LNS15 + Sinc L (or Sinc Mx if your system needs a bit more body) is pretty nice too.


Will try tomorrow - time for bed down here.


----------



## samoloko

Tobes,
thank you for detailed comparision

do you listen to cd audio from cd players using s/pdif 
If yes, what are your findings using May OS mode


----------



## Contrails

Just picked up an used Spring 2 KTE for $1500.  I prefer a more relaxing smooth sound with deep bass and I am using an Auralic Aries streamer with AES.  My current DAC is a Metrum Menuet which has this stunning midrange. But I found the bass a little lacking/neutral.


----------



## Tobes (Oct 20, 2022)

Looks like a missed something with my HQPlayer settings - I had DoP selected instead on 'none' in the SDM settings. Since the Holo dacs accept native DSD, no need for DoP. Will have to go back and check what difference this makes.
Listening now via just Roon on pcm and sounds pretty damn good though.

There is something weird going on with the S3 when connected to the ultraRendu - volume is much reduced.
I checked USB firmware for the Spring 3:




This is the May L2:



Both are Gen 2.1 but May is on the newer 31.44. So this could be my issue with the ultraRendu(?).
I don't believe there are any other changes except compatibility with some processors(?).


Edit: from Kitsune site:

**Firmware Gen 2.1 ONLY : *NEWEST (standard): Firmware for Gen2.1 USB ONLY (Post August20th 2021 dacs ONLY) “enhanced 3144” fixed_volume and variable volume – NOT for Gen2.0 USB  – best paired with the new v5.27.0 windows drivers.  (This firmware (fixed volume version) addresses a Bug with Linux OS where the volume is at 40-50%, this firmware will address that and apply volume at line level (this was not an issue with windows or mac) This firmware (fixed volume version) is STANDARD as of 11/29/2021 (optional variable volume firmware included but not recommended for most setups but may be ok for windows and mac)*

**I'm not going to attempt any firmware upgrade of the S3 - its a dealer loan demo and instructions are clear about not messing with it, opening it etc


----------



## Tobes

samoloko said:


> do you listen to cd audio from cd players using s/pdif
> If yes, what are your findings using May OS mode


I was mainly vinyl and never really collected a lot of CD's, then moved into digital downloads and streaming Tidal/Qobuz. I ripped the CD's I wanted onto a HD.
I do have an Oppo BDP83SE sitting unplugged on a shelf and a Rotel RCD971with clock mods and good old PCM63 dacs somewhere, but haven't had in the system for many years.


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## George Hincapie

Contrails said:


> Just picked up an used Spring 2 KTE for $1500.  I prefer a more relaxing smooth sound with deep bass and I am using an Auralic Aries streamer with AES.  My current DAC is a Metrum Menuet which has this stunning midrange. But I found the bass a little lacking/neutral.


I thought I had convinced you to go for an Onyx! Oh well...😭

Enjoy your new DAC 😊


----------



## Contrails

George Hincapie said:


> I thought I had convinced you to go for an Onyx! Oh well...😭
> 
> Enjoy your new DAC 😊


Mate I got bored of waiting for an Onyx/Pavane/Adagio and saw this S2 KTE for $1500.  Thought I would give it a go. It has good reviews on superbestaudioenemies including some stellar measurements. 

Btw is anyone using Auralic Aries as a streamer? What is this blue speaker highlight mean?


----------



## ctrlm

Contrails said:


> Mate I got bored of waiting for an Onyx/Pavane/Adagio and saw this S2 KTE for $1500.  Thought I would give it a go. It has good reviews on superbestaudioenemies including some stellar measurements.
> 
> Btw is anyone using Auralic Aries as a streamer? What is this blue speaker highlight mean?


I believe it's a speaker placement icon. You probably activated it by mistake? If you haven't input any data on this just tap it to deactivate it.


----------



## Contrails

ctrlm said:


> I believe it's a speaker placement icon. You probably activated it by mistake? If you haven't input any data on this just tap it to deactivate it.


I am guessing it’s some sort of room correction? I am only using headphones and I couldn’t hear a change.


----------



## ctrlm

Yes. If you haven't made any inputs then it will do nothing.


----------



## Tobes (Oct 21, 2022)

I've finished my comparisons of Holo May L2 vs Spring 3 KTE (see posts above)
I thought it might be worthwhile adding a few comments about the Spring 3 KTE vs the Benchmark DAC3 - both connected to an iFi usb hub of the M1 Mini. ***Skip to the end - I found the DAC3 noticeably improved in this comparison when connected to the usb off the ultraRendu.
Let me say from the outset that I think the DAC3 is very good sounding dac, I had no complaints prior to hearing the Holo dacs - I still don't actually. It allows me to enjoy my music for hours on end via both my HP and speaker setups. For some context I thought the DAC3 was a slightly better dac than the Qutest - which I had in my system some time back for about a week.
One thing I noticed in directly comparing the DAC3 to the Holo dacs - this is using the Utopia off the HPA4 - was that that with the Holo dacs in NOS mode the bass of the DAC3 was definitely superior in punch and definition and instruments like piano sounded a bit soft. This didn't really bother me when comparing the Holo dacs among themselves.
Anyway, when comparing the S3 to the DAC3 I used oversampling in Roon to 705/768 (precise linear filter) for the S3 - the DAC3 was used without O/S, which was how I preferred it.



44.1/16 recording of this classic.
When I first listened with the S3 in NOS I could hear that Brubeck's piano was softer compared to the DAC3, but not in a good way. Switching in the O/S per above rectified this. Then I preferred the S3 for its better better rendering of space and smoother (in a good way) tonality.




This classic was was in 96/24. While the DAC3 was good the S3 had the better tonal quality and focus on voices. Changing between the dacs I thought Louis sounded great on both, but Ella had just lovely timbre and focus on the S3. Interestingly, Louis' trumpet was a bit of a toss up - both sounded great. S3 the edge on space.




192/24. Again Chet's trumpet sounded great on both dacs maybe slight edge to S3, but I when the baritone sax came in I preferred tonal complexity/quality of the S3. Sense of space and focus goes to S3 - the DAC3 is not bad here, just a bit drier.




44/16. Interesting because of the extra context of room sounds, tinkling of glasses etc, delivered by the S3 on this live recording. FWIW things like hand clapping sound a bit more natural with the S3. However I think definition of Lafaro's bass was slightly better defined by the DAC3.




44/24. Changing tack - the 'I agree' track on this ep is just stuck in my head. The DAC3 I think has better punch and definition on bass, but space and vocal timbre/tonality better on S3. The tambourines also sound more natural/realistic on the S3. Also find the S3 a more relaxing listen.




44.1/16. Listening to this chestnut again. The DAC3 definitely drier. Everything sounds more natural/real with the S3 and again space and ambience better rendered with the S3.
This type of varied percussion with well recorded space really showed up the differences (and its not that the DAC3 is bad).
S3 is definitely worth an audition if you have dac with similar architecture to the DAC3 and listen to a lot of acoustic based music.

Interesting that the S3 sounds so clearly better with this recording and in somewhat similar ways to how the May L2 was superior to the S3. Let me also reiterate that in isolation the DAC3 sounds excellent. However if tone/texture/timbre and reproduction of space and ambience are important to you the S3 gives you more of these things.

***EDIT: I decided to let my comments above stand, since they compare 'apples to apples' i.e. both dacs running off the M1 Mini > iFi iUSB3.0 hub(LPS).

After this comparison I switched the DAC3 back to the usb on the ultraRendu network endpoint (ethernet from the M1 Mac > EtherRegen > uRendu > usb out to DAC3). This is how I normally run the DAC3. The S3 remained on the M1 mini/iFi usb.
Now, listening to the 'Sounds!' album through the Utopia HP's, the DAC3 sounded fully competitive(!) Spacious and somewhat better on transients and bass solidity. I would rate the sound quality pretty even - at least listening on the HPA4/Utopia - depending on the music I might prefer one or the other. If you gravitate to more to smoothness the S3 would still have an advantage - transients and bass punch the DAC3.

As I mentioned in a previous post there is an issue with the usb firmware of the S3 that effects sound level when run off the uRendu (known issue I believe with the older 31.30 usb firmware) so I couldn't easily switch the dacs around so the S3 is on the uRendu.
Per my comparison of the Holo dacs above, I also noted a performance gain when the May L2 was moved to the uRendu (31.44 usb firmware).
Maybe with the 31.44 usb firmware (like the May) and used on the uRendu the S3 would regain its superiority?
Since the S3 KTE is a dealer loaner I'm not going to mess with firmware (loan conditions precludes any such messing around with the dac).


----------



## ozziegurkan

My Holo Spring3 KTE DAC just started doing something weird today. I upsample through HQP running on M1 Mac and through a direct USB connection. It is now taking almost a minute for the music to start playing (when I change tracks only). I am streaming from Roon over wired network to the M1 Mac mini, so I am not sure what's going on. This problem isn't happening with my other HQP endpoints. Any ideas?


----------



## Marutks

ozziegurkan said:


> It is now taking almost a minute for the music to start playing (when I change tracks only).



It happens when HQP is struggling.  Changed HQP upsampling settings?


----------



## ozziegurkan

I changed from poly-gauss-hires-lp to -mp but still at 1.5Mhz at 20bits. It's really really strange.


----------



## shwnwllms

ozziegurkan said:


> I changed from poly-gauss-hires-lp to -mp but still at 1.5Mhz at 20bits. It's really really strange.



There is little no difference between an lp and mp variant of the same filter from a processing standpoint

Some filters may take some time to initialize, but this isn’t typically one of them. (Sinc-L comes to mind)

If it’s doing it when switching tracks it sounds like a format issue. Is adaptive output rate checked in settings (checked not gray)

Also I would suggest using poly-sinc-gauss-xla (or long) for 1x (keep nX at hi-res-lp).

What does your M1 say as far as CPU and network goes (I have an M1 it’s perfectly capable to use those filters depending on the rest of your settings)

post your preference pane and I’ll take a look…Could be any number of things


----------



## ozziegurkan

shwnwllms said:


> There is little no difference between an lp and mp variant of the same filter from a processing standpoint
> 
> Some filters may take some time to initialize, but this isn’t typically one of them. (Sinc-L comes to mind)
> 
> ...


I think the adaptive output rate check might have done it! It was gray before. Thanks!


----------



## shwnwllms

ozziegurkan said:


> I think the adaptive output rate check might have done it! It was gray before. Thanks!



Couple of things:

- Check 48k DSD
- Right above that change the drop down on SDM pack from none to DoP since you are on a Mac
- multicore DSP should be gray
- make sure your volume in the main window is set to -3db (or lower to avoid clipping, volume knob will turn red if it’s clipping. -3db is fine for 90% of the music out there. I set mine to -4db just to be safe)
- if you try to upsample to DSD 512 using the ASDM7ECV2 modulator you’ll choke the M1. Change it to AMSDM7 512+fs for DSD512 (or leave the modulator as is and back it down to DSD256. I prefer DSD512)
-try the same filters you have for PCM on the DSD side. If you make the changes outlined above they will work on an M1 when you switch back to DSD mode

Checking the adaptive output rate worked, but a bigger issue is you had a x48 listed as the maximum rate without having the 48k DSD box checked up top.


----------



## ozziegurkan

shwnwllms said:


> Couple of things:
> 
> - Check 48k DSD
> - Right above that change the drop down on SDM pack from none to DoP since you are on a Mac
> ...


So helpful thanks! Do you prefer DSD conversion over PCM to Holo? I have been just pumping PCM into it. I guess I could try doing DSD as well.


----------



## shwnwllms

ozziegurkan said:


> So helpful thanks! Do you prefer DSD conversion over PCM to Holo? I have been just pumping PCM into it. I guess I could try doing DSD as well.



Yes. DSD 512 preferably. Holo DACs really shine with DSD


----------



## jlemaster1957

monitoring this thread, reading from 1 year back, posting now so I will be notified of new posts. Currently planning to order Holo Spring 3 KTE, was thinking of Gustard R26 but you have all converted me.


----------



## OneEyedHito

jlemaster1957 said:


> monitoring this thread, reading from 1 year back, posting now so I will be notified of new posts. Currently planning to order Holo Spring 3 KTE, was thinking of Gustard R26 but you have all converted me.


You will likely love the S3, also as for following threads, at the top of the page there is a   "watch" button you can press and select to either get email notifications or just bell notifications in the forums.


----------



## jlemaster1957

OneEyedHito said:


> You will likely love the S3, also as for following threads, at the top of the page there is a   "watch" button you can press and select to either get email notifications or just bell notifications in the forums.


Thanks- wow you’d have thought by now 600+ posts into this I’d have noticed that 🥸


----------



## OneEyedHito

jlemaster1957 said:


> Thanks- wow you’d have thought by now 600+ posts into this I’d have noticed that 🥸


It took me 500 to know I could ignore members (trolls), so Ha, I get it!


----------



## smutnyjoe

jlemaster1957 said:


> Thanks- wow you’d have thought by now 600+ posts into this I’d have noticed that 🥸


Just remember not to follow too many threads with email notifications


----------



## shwnwllms

smutnyjoe said:


> Just remember not to follow too many threads with email notifications



I feel extremely seen


----------



## khashmi

Hi everyone, not new to Head-Fi, but new to the thread. I ordered the Spring 3 KTE last Sunday and I guess I lucked out because I should have it next Monday.  Tim at Kitsune had some extra inventory so it’s on its way! Look forward to participating and learning from existing users.


----------



## Mark6088

khashmi said:


> Hi everyone, not new to Head-Fi, but new to the thread. I ordered the Spring 3 KTE last Sunday and I guess I lucked out because I should have it next Monday.  Tim at Kitsune had some extra inventory so it’s on its way! Look forward to participating and learning from existing users.


Congrats on your purchase!  I wish I would have lucked out like that!  I ordered my Spring 3 KTE almost three weeks ago and still have another 2 - 3 weeks (plus shipping) to wait.  I wonder how Tim at Kitsune is prioritizing order fulfillment...


----------



## OneEyedHito

Mark6088 said:


> Congrats on your purchase!  I wish I would have lucked out like that!  I ordered my Spring 3 KTE almost three weeks ago and still have another 2 - 3 weeks (plus shipping) to wait.  I wonder how Tim at Kitsune is prioritizing order fulfillment...


Tim prioritizes orders as they are received like anyone else would.  Sometimes he gets returns or demos that he might offer to inquiries, or maybe even canceled orders but he doesn't play musical chairs with orders in my extensive experience with him.  If you ordered and had an order number in at Holo along with carrier placement then again based on my experience in international parts fulfillment it is best to stick with that preset plan to prevent any hiccups and mess-ups with orders.


----------



## Mark6088

OneEyedHito said:


> Tim prioritizes orders as they are received like anyone else would.  Sometimes he gets returns or demos that he might offer to inquiries, or maybe even canceled orders but he doesn't play musical chairs with orders in my extensive experience with him.  If you ordered and had an order number in at Holo along with carrier placement then again based on my experience in international parts fulfillment it is best to stick with that preset plan to prevent any hiccups and mess-ups with orders.


Well said, fair enough.


----------



## khashmi

Mark6088 said:


> Congrats on your purchase!  I wish I would have lucked out like that!  I ordered my Spring 3 KTE almost three weeks ago and still have another 2 - 3 weeks (plus shipping) to wait.  I wonder how Tim at Kitsune is prioritizing order fulfillment...


Thanks Mark.  Trust me, I was caught off guard when I received the tracking number as the initial confirmation laid out the 5 week wait.  I e-mailed Kitsune to understand if this was legit, and Tim confirmed it was due to the excess inventory he had at the moment, but also mentioned that he could ship that unit to someone else if I really wanted to wait the full 5 weeks for another unit to be shipped. I was like Hellz No! Please send it without delay—lol.

I am upgrading from the Denafrips Ares II, which was my gateway drug in to R2R DACs.  Was thinking of upgrading to the Pontus/Venus but decided to opt for the Holo Spring 3 since it‘s well respected within both the objectivist and subjectivist camps and also looks like a million bucks (compared to the bland industrial design of the entire Denafrips line).  In addition, I wasn’t too keen on adding an external re-clocker, which in my observation, is needed for most Denafrips DACs, but isn’t necessarily that important for Holo DACs, since they measure so well to begin with and have great jitter reduction out of the box.

And yes, fully aware that I need to feed it a continuous signal to help break it in.  500 hrs. seems to be the sweet spot, though I’ve heard from some owners that it’s close to double that (at least in their cases).  Also ordered the isoacoustics Zazen isolation platform for it’s resting place in my rig.


----------



## Mark6088 (Oct 29, 2022)

khashmi said:


> Thanks Mark.  Trust me, I was caught off guard when I received the tracking number as the initial confirmation laid out the 5 week wait.  I e-mailed Kitsune to understand if this was legit, and Tim confirmed it was due to the excess inventory he had at the moment, but also mentioned that he could ship that unit to someone else if I really wanted to wait the full 5 weeks for another unit to be shipped. I was like Hellz No! Please send it without delay—lol.
> 
> I am upgrading from the Denafrips Ares II, which was my gateway drug in to R2R DACs.  Was thinking of upgrading to the Pontus/Venus but decided to opt for the Holo Spring 3 since it‘s well respected within both the objectivist and subjectivist camps and also looks like a million bucks (compared to the bland industrial design of the entire Denafrips line).  In addition, I wasn’t too keen on adding an external re-clocker, which in my observation, is needed for most Denafrips DACs, but isn’t necessarily that important for Holo DACs, since they measure so well to begin with and have great jitter reduction out of the box.
> 
> And yes, fully aware that I need to feed it a continuous signal to help break it in.  500 hrs. seems to be the sweet spot, though I’ve heard from some owners that it’s close to double that (at least in their cases).  Also ordered the isoacoustics Zazen isolation platform for it’s resting place in my rig.


Khashmi,  "Gateway drug"...I love it!  I had a steady progression up the addiction ladder, most notably the RME ADI-2 DAC FS, Topping D90SE, Pontus II, and I am now using my Anthem STR Preamp's internal DAC, which is no slouch, BTW.

My thought processes leading to this purchase were similar to yours.  After owning the Pontus II, I have great respect for the Denafrips line.  The Venus II (probably with the Iris DDC later) was the only other competitor in my decision.  What I really want is a DAC that possesses a degree of smoothness without sacrificing detail.  While I really liked the Pontus II, it traded off a little detail for smoothness and fatigue-free listening.  I did not want to risk purchasing the Venus only to find it had the same character (even though several reviewers did say it has a "more open, airy" sound).

From all my research and reading, the Spring 3 KTE appears to strike a good balance between R2R smoothness and delta sigma detail.  I certainly hope my expectations are met!  Time will tell.  500 hours of burn in is a long time, but it will be fun to listen to how the SQ improves through the burn in process.  I am looking forward to hearing your impressions as you take your S3 KTE through its break-in!


----------



## lsantista

I reckon there is much smaller interest for streamers, but for Holo fans or anyone interested, Im trying to follow up about their upcoming product, the Red, in here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/holo-audio-red-streamer.965665/#post-17249460


----------



## Deleeh

Hello,

Have any of you heard the Spring 3 Lv 2 and Lv 3 and can possibly give information about it?

If I were to go for the Lv 3 I am concerned that the Dac with the Zmf Auteur and Feliks Euforia amplifier might be too sterile and a bit cold sounding.

The Lv 2 somehow seems to have a warmer sound than the Lv 3, but I could be wrong.
According to test reports, the Lv 2 doesn't necessarily do badly.
I'm also asking because I can't deliver both Dacs to my house.
I would definitely buy the Lv 2 with a preamp, but I'm not sure about the Lv 3 because of the total price.


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Nov 27, 2022)

Deleeh said:


> Hello,
> 
> Have any of you heard the Spring 3 Lv 2 and Lv 3 and can possibly give information about it?
> 
> ...


This is pretty tangential to your question, but I am also planning to purchase both the Spring 3, and a ZMF VC headphone. Not the same I know, but a recent reviewer of the VC noted that he found the May too warm for the VC, as he found it to be a warm leaning HP. 

I am not affirming this or otherwise, as I have not heard either - just ‘one beggar sharing a morsel of bread with another’. It is so difficult that we who don’t live close to shops where we can hear this stuff must rely on reviews and make ‘blind buys’ on the basis of them without auditioning. Generally I have found if I read enough of them I get a sense of what the item will sound like and haven’t been totally disappointed- ie  ‘in the multitude of counselors there is safety’. My advice is to read through the whole of this thread (if you have time) there are plenty of first hand reviews.


----------



## Marutks

jlemaster1957 said:


> This is pretty tangential to your question, but I am also planning to purchase both the Spring 3, and a ZMF VC headphone. Not the same I know, but a recent reviewer of the VC noted that he found the May too warm for the VC, as he found it to be a warm leaning HP.




You can't go wrong with Spring 3 KTE and ZMF headphones.   You could always pair the Spring 3 with a neutral sounding amp for more "analytical" sound.


----------



## Deleeh

That's the problem why I have a hard time with the Spring 3.
The Feliks Euforia is generally quite neutral, and together with the Zmf Auteur OG it can give too much neutrality depending on the tube.

I still have a few tubes to exchange to take the neutrality out, but the whole thing is also borderline.
If necessary, I would have a plan B at hand by replacing the Vcap TFTF on the Feliks with the CuTF, but only if it is no longer possible, in order to gain some more heat.

Personally, I think the Kitsune version is probably a bit more sterile and less warm than the Lv2 version because of its silver cable, holo caps construction.
Which could probably be a bit warmer due to the copper cable and no holo caps, maybe at the expense of resolution but I trust Feliks Euforia to get that under control with his Vcap mod.
That's why I'm asking if anyone has heard the Lv2 version and could compare it with the Kitsune version.
Since most reports are based more on the kitsune version and hardly anything is known about the pure lv2 version.
Even though I have read some good reports with the Kitsune+Euforia pairing,but the headphones were not Zmf.


----------



## smutnyjoe

I’ve been comparing Spring3 KTE with a definitely neutral DAC (chord tt2) for some time and I can assure that you shouldn’t be worried about S3KTE or being too analytical or not having this lush warmish sound. 

If L2 was significantly more warm, it would be too much for me… but I think there are little to no people who ABed lvl2 and lvl3 so most of the opinions here might be just guessing based on other peoples’ guessing


----------



## elf21400 (Nov 27, 2022)

I currently use May KTE with a silver fuse and the sound is not too warm to me. (I used Spring3 KTE before)


----------



## khashmi

Spring 3 KTE—Thoughts and observations after 500 hours but didn’t get a chance to share until now….close to 700 hrs.

Before I speak to the sonic character, wanted to note a couple of things as I read through all 234 pages of this Holo Spring DAC thread.


The thread can be dissected in to 3 phases.  The first big chunk is for the original Spring (first 125 pages) followed by a smallish section on the Spring 2/May (25 pages), and then the May/Spring 3 took over the limelight since page 154 (circa July 2021).  I can’t quite put my finger on why Spring 2, didn’t have as big a section as the other two.  Those who lived this journey can better opine on this front.
It seems that the Spring 1&2 performance was positively impacted by a DDC and that most of the members were using the Singxer SU-2 or the KTE version to get the job done. However, consensus is that there is not much of an impact (if any) for the May/Spring 3 KTE models with the Titanis USB circuit.
Average break-in time for the Spring 3 is approximated at around 500 hours though the exact methodology seems to be split between just keeping it on (what Jeff and Tim recommend) vs. playing music 24/7 (what some users recommend).  I really don’t know which method is right but to err on the side of caution, I fed it a signal more or less 24/7 for the first 600 hours.
Some members seemed to express dissatisfaction with Kitsune’s response times while some standby their customer service given it’s a small business.  I belong to the latter camp.  My customer service experience has been delightful even prior to receiving the unit when Tim was able to ship my unit faster then the typical wait time of 5 weeks since he had some units in stock.  Since then, Tim has been very patient with my questions.  I don’t expect an immediate response, which is par the course for a small business, but a response does come and it is very detailed.

Setup

I think it will be helpful to provide context as to my gear.  I read many glowing reviews without the context of the users audio chain.  Just note that I’m a speaker guy—not a headphone enthusiast like most of you.

I use a dedicated streamer—Bluesound Node N130–connected to my Spring 3 KTE via USB (Supra Excalibur).  The Bluesound is being powered by an AudioQuest NRG Y2, being fed by a Supra Cat8 Ethernet.  I didn’t bother using the stock power cord of the Spring 3 KTE. Instead, I just connected it to the after market power cord from Cullen Cable, which I was previously using for my Denafrips Ares II.  The Spring 3 KTE is connected via XLR to the Schiit Freya Plus (Wire World Equinox 8), which is then connected to my Dennis Had Class A SET tube amp via AQ Mackenzie RCA cables.  The Freya Plus and SET amp are using stock PC as I haven’t gotten around to upgrading yet.  For the first 600 hours, the SET amp was connected via Decware’s ZWire speaker cables to my Klipsch RP-8000f towers.  These speakers have served me well but I have switched to an Open Baffle setup so, I can’t say for certain if the changes since are due to the DAC still breaking in, or the new speakers just having more range then the Klipsch drivers.  What I also managed for the first 600 hours is to keep the tube consortium consistent.  This was especially hard considering I like to roll tubes often but the need to minimize variables reigned supreme during the initial break-in process.  To keep vibrations in check, I bought the ZaZen vibration platform from Isoacoustics and the Spring 3 KTE was placed there from Day 1. 

Design: 

My God. The Spring 3 KTE is so drop dead gorgeous that it just takes my breath away every time I look at it.  I’ve researched a lot of DACs and I have never seen anything that comes close to Holo’s design aesthetic.  In fact, ‘how it looks’ was not an insignificant factor in my decision.  The uber industrial and boring designs of the entire Denafrips line never appealed to me.  And even though I’m a Schiit fan—the Yggy won’t win a sexy design award anytime soon.  Currently, I have the Node stacked on top of the Spring 3,  but I’ve been careful not to cover the Kitsune Fox emblem, which is the proverbial cherry on top.  The copper sides and buttons on the faceplate provide unbeatable contrast to the jet black chassis and incidentally a great match for my Klipsch front strange.  In fact, it’s such a great match aesthetically that I am debating (now that I have switched speakers) whether to sell my Klipsch towers or just keep them there for HT use and completing the uniform front stage look.  If there’s any unit that deserves to be put on a pedestal for looks—it’s this.  

Well, there is one exception…

Display:

If there is one thing that I don’t care for, it is the display.  It seems half baked (literally) with two non-functional bands on each side, restricting the functional real estate, which is a bit jarring to look at.  I’m keeping it off for potentially better power utilization within the unit and not wanting the display to call attention to itself. However, when the sample rate changes from track to track, the unit ignores the ‘be off’ edict and displays it for a second before turning off again.  That remains a minor nuisance.  If I was that worried about knowing sample rates for each song, I wouldn’t have turned off the display. Oh well….minor quibble, this.

Remote:

Let me tell you—I freaked out when I handled the remote for the first time as I thought it was broken since I could hear massive rattling.  Tim assured me that it was by design and that’s it just the copper buttons making contact with their respective circular casing around it.  I really don’t use the remote so not a big issue either way, but it was worrisome at first blush.  The copper buttons on the chassis faceplate seem like a replica of the remote buttons in both looks and feel, though I wouldn’t be shaking the chassis anytime soon to gauge if they rattle the same way as well!

Internals: 

Not going to comment here since I haven’t opened mine nor do I plan to.  We’ve all seen the pictures and have seen the reviews. That said, one could successfully argue that the Spring 3 KTE is even more gorgeous from the inside.

Sonics:

I’ve read many mini glowing reviews right out of the box on this thread.  That was not the case for me.  It didn’t sound noticeably superior to my Ares II either on Day 1 or Day 2.  I admit, I was panicking at the tail end of Day 2, but I trusted the experience of the collective that it takes a while to open up.  Day 3 is when I could finally hear the “men separating from the boys” and it gradually got better over the past month.

Dynamics—One of the things I really wanted to improve upon is dynamics, and here, starting from Day 3, I started to get rewarded.  One of my go to tracks is Stevie Ray Vaughan’s Tin Pan Alley.  My reference listening experience to this track is on Klipsch Forte IV’s paired with the Mola Mola Kula that has the Tambaqi DAC built in.  The Spring 3 got closer to that reference  then the Ares II could ever manage fully broken in.  While I don’t think there was much change in dynamics on that particular track from day to day (listened to it almost daily), overall the Spring 3 KTE skillfully handled dynamic contrasts, making listening sessions much more enjoyable.  That said, dynamics also have to do with with how good your drivers are and I’m experiencing even better dynamics with the Lii Audio Fast 15 Full Range drivers in the OB setup.  I may or may not have jumped out of my listening chair yesterday.

Bass Slam—I wasn’t necessarily hurting in the region. In fact, I didn’t think the RP-8000f’s had anything left to give—I was already getting a pretty good punch in the chest. 

I was wrong.  

The slam starting on Day 4 and 5, had me questioning my sanity.  And it’s not just slam…it’s both the texture and the bass being more effortless, compared to the Ares II.  This is hard to put in words but for some reason the term ‘more elastic’ comes to mind.  It’s as if the bass is no longer tethered, it springs (no pun intended), it roars, and dances like a ballerina on certain tracks.  I concede that this is a very subjective and borderline romantic explanation, but it’s my truth and I’m sticking to it.

Resolution/Timbre—Definitely experiencing what others described as going from 2K to 4K—One way to describe what I heard was more ‘realism’ with every instrument, especially the Piano.  With the Ares II, it was decidedly my least favorite instrument not because it sounded bad, but it was never engaging and I almost always ignored it.  Now, I’m hanging on to each keystroke.  It sounds really really good and I’m appreciating it on almost every track that has it.

Sound Stage and Imaging—No other tweak or gear has altered the size of the soundstage in my rig over the past two years as the Spring 3 KTE did in the last month.  More noticeable in width, then height, then depth.  Well, now that I have the OB speakers setup 6 ft from the front wall, I’m also getting incredible depth.  Moreover, the imaging/placement of each instrument within the soundstage is more precise leading to a more resolute, airy, and crisp presentation.  The Spring 3 KTE provides such wonderful layering that it’s easy to keep track of multiple instruments at the same time—something I wasn’t able to necessarily enjoy as much on the Ares II.  

Vocals—More clearer, the breath work more intimate, the saliva more palpable— hence, even more so ‘in the room’ then ever before. 

Details—After a week of break-in, I picked up on the Piano during the determinedly fiddle solo section of Diana Krall’s cover of “Just You, Just Me” from the album “This Dream of You” floating ceiling height, just right of center.  The Ares II did this track beautifully as well but I was never able to pick up on the Piano as clearly as I did on the Spring 3 KTE.  That was a nice surprise and there have been many many since.  I wish I could provide more examples, but I eventually stopped taking notes as the music became just so intoxicating.

Conclusion:

I was the at Capital Audio Fest a couple of weeks ago and after auditioning the Uber sexy Hi Fi Rose Streamer/DAC, I asked the exhibitor if the onboard chip DAC could be bypassed and he looked at me incredulously and said that you’d have to have a very capable external DAC to beat the whatever DAC chip the Rose has inside.  I was like yeah—I prefer to use my r2r DAC and he was like, oh you’re one of those guys.  He probably didn’t mean that in a nice way, but I took it as a compliment and will wear that moniker as a badge of honor. 

Despite my reservations and second guessing leading up to this massive upgrade, the Spring 3 KTE has proved itself and I’ve stopped obsessing over break-in after 600 hours.  Anything beyond what it already sounds like, will be a welcome bonus.


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## devilboy

khashmi said:


> Spring 3 KTE—Thoughts and observations after 500 hours but didn’t get a chance to share until now….close to 700 hrs.
> 
> Before I speak to the sonic character, wanted to note a couple of things as I read through all 234 pages of this Holo Spring DAC thread.
> 
> ...


Very nice review! Well done. Glad to see you are obviously impressed and happy with the unit, as am I. Welcome to the club.

I've had many r2r DACs and the Spring 3 KTE is just a better performer all around.
I also am quite smitten with the Holo aesthetic. So damn sexy. To me, it's audio pornography.


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## mantraone

khashmi said:


> Sonics:
> 
> I’ve read many mini glowing reviews right out of the box on this thread. That was not the case for me. It didn’t sound noticeably superior to my Ares II either on Day 1 or Day 2. I admit, I was panicking at the tail end of Day 2, but I trusted the experience of the collective that it takes a while to open up. Day 3 is when I could finally hear the “men separating from the boys” and it gradually got better over the past month.
> 
> ...



Nice review. Let me tell that in my experience you can arcieve the maximun result if you can upgrade the digital connection from your internet router to the DAC. Sounds crazy but ethernet cable with audiograde, can make backgroud darker and more fluidity in collaboration with good streamer (I never tested the "sexy Hi-fi Rose) but Auralic Aries G2.1 or Innuos Zenith MKIII. I think the R2R DAC are the best digital source to enjoy listening music. I personally using a Roon Fanless PC with Gustard U18 DDC to go in I2s interface of my Spring3 KTE and play great for me, now the problem is switch off the stereo system.... =^_^=


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## khashmi

Thanks guys! A better source (streamer) is next on my list of upgrades and have currently honed in on the Auralic Aries.  The Innous Zen MKIII comes highly recommended too and the fact that it can serve as a roon core is definitely attractive (though I’ve heard from a couple of folks that the native Sense app/renderer provides better SQ compared to Roon).  However, I don’t need to rip any CD’s so that feature is going to be useless for me.  Additionally, the Auralic has a linear power supply built in whereas, I’ll have to purchase a seperate LPSU from Innous.  If anyone has experience with either of those two brands, would love to learn more.


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## ozziegurkan

You can also consider the new Holo Red!


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## khashmi

Thanks-Yes, the Holo Red is on my radar as well, but one of the reasons I had honed in on the Auralic and Innous is that both seem to have excellent native iOS apps so in case I don’t want to use Roon, the user experience will still be stellar.  I’m not entirely sure, the Holo Red will offer that level of native app polish (unless I use Roon), but certainly looking forward to reading reviews early next year.

One of the things I want to experiment with in the next week is to gauge how the Spring 3 KTE sounds with PLL turned off.  There is some talk on the Facebook Group that PLL turned off might offer a better presentation so I want to check it out for myself.


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## joseph69

khashmi said:


> One of the things I want to experiment with in the next week is to gauge how the Spring 3 KTE sounds with PLL turned off.


How are you going to go about turning off the PLL? 
Is this an option on the newer Spring KTE models? I own a '17 Spring KTE which is why I'm asking.


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## shwnwllms

joseph69 said:


> How are you going to go about turning off the PLL?
> Is this an option on the newer Spring KTE models? I own a '17 Spring KTE which is why I'm asking.


There is an option on the Spring 3 & May to disable PLL on inputs other than USB (my understanding is that it is always on for USB)


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## khashmi

Joseph69–I was relying on this section from the manual to turn it off—I’ll try and check tomorrow if it lets me turn it off with usb in play. Recent facebook posts from the Holo Audio group led me to believe that it is possible but I’ll confirm for sure.


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## mfgillia (Dec 5, 2022)

khashmi said:


> One of the things I want to experiment with in the next week is to gauge how the Spring 3 KTE sounds with PLL turned off.  There is some talk on the Facebook Group that PLL turned off might offer a better presentation so I want to check it out for myself.


That should be as easy as just using USB, which recall doesn't use PLL as asynchronous USB shouldn't need it because the clocking is at the DAC side only.


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## khashmi

To the extent whether or not the Spring 3 KTE allows you turn off PLL using configuration mode if you’re using USB—it does.  I confirmed that an hour ago. 

That said, there seems to be mass confusion on this topic.  I understand why it does not make sense for PLL to be enabled for USB since asynch usb shouldn’t need it, with the master clock on the DAC side.  The facebook post from the Holo Audio group where this debate started has two differing stances on this subject:

1) PLL is always off using USB (even though it may be enabled) and hence any difference in SQ is psychoacoustics 
2) Keeping PLL off using USB avoids the DAC having to recreate yet another (unnecessary) clock from it’s internal clock from the first place, hence enhancing SQ

Tim recommended that I keep PLL on since it has the fastest locking times with USB and this jives with what he told another member much earlier, which was covered in post #2324 of this thread (pasting excerpt from that post below):

“What I found with turning PLL off - There was no detectable (to me) loss of sound quality with PLL disabled.
I ended up actually just removing my DDC from the chain, and instead used the Titanis 2.0 USB input with PLL enabled, as that is what Tim recommended. Again, there was/is no loss of SQ that I can detect and I feel better personally having the PLL enabled. Tim told me the Titanis USB is very very good and it is set as the Primary for the PLL and makes it the fastest to lock.
Since I am not doing any up sampling, or have DSD content I decided for me this is OK (Use USB).”

I recall seeing another post (on another forum) where GoldenSound also confirmed PLL not making any difference with USB, though I’m having trouble finding it now.

What is confusing is why then is there an option to turn PLL on/off to begin with and why Tim also recommends it.  

Perhaps Tim/Jeff can offer some fresh perspective here.  

Purely academic this—-Now back to enjoying music.


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## borkenarrou

Can someone please help me with the dimension and weight of the Spring 3 KTE retail package.


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## OneEyedHito (Dec 6, 2022)

borkenarrou said:


> Can someone please help me with the dimension and weight of the Spring 3 KTE retail package.



“23x18x7 and 22-23lbs roughly depending on model”


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## borkenarrou (Dec 7, 2022)

Deleted.


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## jlemaster1957

borkenarrou said:


> WaveTheory  compared the A90D to various sub $600 amps
> 
> 
> 
> To sum it up he is not too impressed, his main complaints are lack of micro details particularly trailing ones and details in busy passages which he atttibute to A90D's feedback topology (like other THX based amps), I myself dont have higher end amps to compare to know if I am missing anything, so folks who do have high end amps do you agree with his observations.



Wrong thread? Or does a Holo DAC make an appearance in the video?


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## borkenarrou

jlemaster1957 said:


> Wrong thread? Or does a Holo DAC make an appearance in the video?


Oopse, reposted in the correct thread, multiple tabs and too much coffee I guess


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## lllkkkoo

Does anyone happen to know what vol is the "unity gain" for holo spring 3 kte with preamp module? i am considering picking up a tube pre and preferably set the vol as a pseudo pre bypass. Any help would be appreciated


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## incredulousity

lllkkkoo said:


> Does anyone happen to know what vol is the "unity gain" for holo spring 3 kte with preamp module? i am considering picking up a tube pre and preferably set the vol as a pseudo pre bypass. Any help would be appreciated


94


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## Bkido

incredulousity said:


> 94


I thought it was 92. @GoldenOne Do you still remember the numbers?


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## mfgillia (Dec 14, 2022)

Bkido said:


> I thought it was 92. @GoldenOne Do you still remember the numbers?


Pretty sure it is 92 for line level output.


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## maxsol

jlemaster1957 said:


> monitoring this thread, reading from 1 year back, posting now so I will be notified of new posts. Currently planning to order Holo Spring 3 KTE, was thinking of Gustard R26 but you have all converted me.


Would like to see a side by side comparison of the two, though. Have Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE, but curious about this new kid on the R2R block.


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## incredulousity

mfgillia said:


> Pretty sure it is 92 for line level output.





Tim has said 94. That’s where I got the number.


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## mfgillia

incredulousity said:


> Tim has said 94. That’s where I got the number.


On the @GoldenOne telegram channel many of us were using 92 but if Tim says it's 94 then probably best to stick with that number unless someone has additional information to share.


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## Bkido

mfgillia said:


> On the @GoldenOne telegram channel many of us were using 92 but if Tim says it's 94 then probably best to stick with that number unless someone has additional information to share.


So I just checked back with Golden. 92 is 4V line level and 94 is 5.8V which the Spring 3 w/o pre puts out.


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## mfgillia (Dec 14, 2022)

Bkido said:


> So I just checked back with Golden. 92 is 4V line level and 94 is 5.8V which the Spring 3 w/o pre puts out.


Thanks for following up. I was starting to wonder if we were possibly talking about different things - i.e., line level (4v) versus the level that matches Spring 3 w/o pre and now we know the answer. 😊


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## Delta9K (Dec 14, 2022)

.


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## borkenarrou (Dec 14, 2022)

Anyone tested the Spring 3 with Douk Audio U2 Pro DDC via I2S, is it any better than direct USB to the Spring 3 (which we know is quite good without a DDC), U2 Pro at @ $64.99 is dirt cheap compared to Singxer SU2 or Denafrips Iris even if we add a iPower linear power supply.


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## BlakeT (Dec 14, 2022)

@borkenarrou   I thought the USB input on my Spring 3 was very good, but you may end up preferring I2S.  I love DDC's and have experimented with them quite a bit.  However, adding a cheap-o, throw away Douk DDC to something like the Spring 3 gives me the heebie jeebies!  That's just me though.  It would be a very inexpensive experiment for you to try. If it doesn't work out, just use the Douk as a paper weight, or white elephant gift.


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## borkenarrou

Yeah, given the low price I am also not too comfortable pairing with a 3K dac, I'll either get the IRIS or Mercury V2 streamer.


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## BlakeT

I currently have an Iris and a Gaia.  I've owned a bunch of other DDC's (Berkeley, etc.) and generally find nice sonic upticks when they are inserted in the chain (improvements in imaging, better defined sound stage, blacker background which results in more noticeable fine details).  I also generally prefer I2S input on DAC's to any other input, when it is an option.  Give a DDC/I2S a try and let us know what you think.


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## borkenarrou

My spring 3 KTE is still on the way, will report back here once I get it.


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## borkenarrou

Also is it safe to use ungrounded USB sources like smartphones / RPI in the Spring 3, somewhere I read its unsafe to do so if the DAC expects a grounded USB.


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## Crow123

I2S ddc need to be really really good to improve holo dacs. I wouldn’t think of anything less than singxer. I think this is mostly because with I2s the sending unit controls the clock (THINK) so you are essentially downgrading clock if you use a ddc with a worse clock


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## Marutks

BlakeT said:


> prefer I2S input on DAC's to any other input, when it is an option.



Has anyone tried IFI Neo streamer with Spring 3 DAC?


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## ctrlm

Marutks said:


> Has anyone tried IFI Neo streamer with Spring 3 DAC?


Yep - use the ALT2 I2S setting on the Spring 3 to get the correct channel orientation.


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## borkenarrou

Is isolation feet necessary for the Spring 3 KTE, I live in a bit of a crowded apratment so vibration etc are common, does the factory feet have some level of vibration protection.


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## Roasty

borkenarrou said:


> Is isolation feet necessary for the Spring 3 KTE, I live in a bit of a crowded apratment so vibration etc are common, does the factory feet have some level of vibration protection.



I've seen quite a few ppl use isoacoustics Oreas with the spring and May. I've done the same. if you're going down the same route (ie Oreas), be aware that the isoacoustics rubber does leave some marks on the chassis after some time.


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## borkenarrou

Roasty said:


> I've seen quite a few ppl use isoacoustics Oreas with the spring and May. I've done the same. if you're going down the same route (ie Oreas), be aware that the isoacoustics rubber does leave some marks on the chassis after some time.


Are you using 3 or 4 feet, not sure though 3 feet will be ideal given the size and weight of the Spring 3.


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## khashmi

I use the isoacoustics Zazen platform for my Spring 3 KTE


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## George Hincapie

khashmi said:


> I use the isoacoustics Zazen platform for my Spring 3 KTE



£200 for some painted MDF and feet...they saw you coming 😔


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## Roasty

borkenarrou said:


> Are you using 3 or 4 feet, not sure though 3 feet will be ideal given the size and weight of the Spring 3.



I used 4 feet between the May psu and dac units. 

the zazen platform is nice but I'm not a big fan of the font/lettering on the front of the platform, so I turn it around to hide it. 

platforms are a bit of voodoo for me; i don't think I ever heard a difference with using them, so I use them mainly for aesthetics LOL yes I am shallow.


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## borkenarrou

George Hincapie said:


> £200 for some painted MDF and feet...they saw you coming 😔


Honestly I think they may be good feet, but the marketing is bit over the top 🤷‍♂️

https://isoacoustics.com/home-audio-isolation-products/orea-series/

_"This results in greater sound clarity and a more open soundstage providing authentic, three-dimensional sound."_


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## borkenarrou (Jan 2, 2023)

Roasty said:


> platforms are a bit of voodoo for me; i don't think I ever heard a difference with using them, so I use them mainly for aesthetics LOL yes I am shallow.


Agreed, my primary reason is protection from vibration at my place impacting the life of the components, given how expensive these equipment are.


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## khashmi

Paid half of that but that besides the point. I was wondering how long it would take for the holiday spirit to wane, and the needlessly passive aggressive discourse to continue (though admittedly, wasn’t expecting it on Head-Fi anytime soon—compared to other forums). 

And there we have it…day 2 of 2023! 

Cheers!


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## LowBeat91

How do i disable the PLL on the Spring 2?


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## koso

LowBeat91 said:


> How do i disable the PLL on the Spring 2?


As far as I know, there is no such option on Spring 2.


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