# Balanced XLR Conversion HOWTO Grado GS1000



## les_garten

*[size=small]Grado GS1000 XLR Project
[/size]*

 I just received an Audio-GD Phoenix and need to balance my cans. Occasionally here someone asks how to change out a 1/4" TRS plug for an upgrade or they ask about how to change out to balanced connectors. So I thought I would take some time and shoot some PIX of this conversion. Hopefully it will help somebody in the future and allows me to contribute something other than B*tching! So here goes!

 The subject is a Grado GS1000i with the 8 wire connector. It is the same Idea for the 4 wire connector, just half as many of each color. On this cable we'll have 2 Positive(Signal) Wires for each driver and 2 Ground wires for each driver. After this conversion, we'll call them Hot(+) and Cold(-), or Live(+) and Return(-).

 First task is to map out which colors are Ground, Left, and Right. Get a bright light and look into the Grado grills. On the Left you'll see 2 Blue wires and 2 Red wires. On the Right, you'll see two White wires and two Blue wires. We've just discovered that the Blue wires are ground(they are common to both sides), and the Left signal wires are Red and the Right Signal wires are White. That's Wire ID method #1. Method #2 is the best method, but you'll need a DMM, which you should have on this Hobby anyhow, especially if you want to learn cabling. DMMs run from $10-$500 or so. For cables you don't need much.

 Read through everything once before doing anything.


*So, I re-sampled the PIX down to BIG Thumbnails. Click on the PIC for the Hi Res PIC showing the detail, they are linked. *.

*[size=x-small]And now on to the Show![/size]*
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*The Client*



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*The Victim*



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 Here we have a Fluke 87 DMM testing the TIP or Left Driver. This headphone has 32 Ohm drivers. 1/4" Jacks are called TRS Jacks standing for TIP, RING, and SLEEVE. The Headphone Jack has the TIP which is the Left Driver, The RING which is the Collar between the Two Black Insulators, and is the RIGHT Driver, and the SLEEVE which is the area closed to the Handle of the Jack and clamped here with the BLACK Alligator Clip. The SLEEVE is the Ground Connector. By attaching your DMM to the SLEEVE and TIP as Shown in the PIC, I see approx 32 Ohms displayed. I know my driver is good. If you have the Headphone on your Head and touch TIP and SLEEVE, you will hear a Faint static sound, this also aids in ID as we'll see Later.



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 Here we Have the Grado TRS Filleted to show the Guts of the Connector. This is how you would change out a connector that you couldn't see into the Cups to visually ID he Signal and Ground wire colors. This is Method #2 of IDing the Wire Colors. You can see we have two RED wires, Two White wires, and 4 Blue wires. You want to Look at how the Jack is laid out. Here you can see that the Blue wires are soldered directly to the SLEEVE. This IDs them as the Ground wires. So you just have to figure out which wires are th LEFT and RIGHT signal wires. We know from before that the TIP corresponds with the LEFT signal wire. Set your DMM to Ohms, if it has a Beep indicator, turn it on. Touch the Leads, it should go BEEP indicating you have a Closed circuit between your Positive and Negative LEADS of your DMM. This is what we are looking for. If you don't have a BEEP indicator, you read the OHMs to see if you have a Closed circuit. You should see close to 0-.2 Ohms when you ID your wire. I'm kinda rambling here, but hang in there, it will make sense in a minute. 

 So in the Picture shown, I touch one of my DMM leads to the TIP and touch the other LEAD to the White wire and nothing happens. I touch one to the TIP and the other lead to the RED wire and get a BEEP. Eureka! We've just ID's the TIP Color as RED for the Left(TIP) driver. This will be the COLD connector on our XLR. Now put one of the DMM leads on the SLEEVE and the other lead on the WHITE wires, BEEP. We've ID'd the RIGHT channel signal wire and Color ID. When you are IDing the Channel wires, make sure you are reading close to Zero ohms. Now touch from the RED wires to the BLUE wires, we get a BEEP and show 32 Ohms. That's the circuit we are measuring through the LEFT driver Voice Coil. If you've never done much with a DMM, you should be having fun now! Play around with touching all the TRS potions and wires in different Combos to see how may Ohms are registered and understand what you are getting. If you have 600 Ohm Beyers, you'll get you know, around 550-625 Ohms or so. So to recap, your DMM here will show open(nothing) if there is not circuit, it will show Zero if there is a perfect Circuit, and it will show the OHMs of your drivers if you are connecting the Signal(+) and the Ground(-) together. his assumes you drivers aren't blown. DMM will not hurt your drivers just to do a test like this. Except for possibly one instance. If your DMM does not automatically set the range of your OHMs test, MAKE SURE YOU SET THE RANGE BEFORE TOUCHING YOUR HEADPHONES. Don't set a test range of 10,000 Ohms to test 32 Ohm Grados. Cheap Meters will have to have the range set.



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 Here I took a Box Cutter and "Scored" the outside sheath of the wire. I don't cut thru. I just score it and peel it apart with my fingers. You don't want to nick the wires. Next step we figure out which Ground wires mate up to which Signal wires. In the meantime strip off about 1/4" of insulation on all your wires. Usually I just grab them with my fingernails and pinch the insulation off. Young guys with Good teeth bite it off. You can tell Ol' guys, their teeth are screwed up. Practice snapping the wire off with your nails, you'll be happier in the end and it's a new skill you learned. All the ends shown here I snaped off. 



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 Here I am touching the RED wire, and I need to find the Ground wires that complete the circuit thru the Voice coil of that driver. So one lead on the RED and touch the BLUE wires and listen for the BEEP or read approx 32 OHMs. Mark the ends of the two BLUE wires that BEEP with a sharpie. Now you know which Grounds go with the WHITE wires and which go with the RED wires. One thing you should notice here, when we checked the TIP before we got 31.7 OHMs, here we get 33.5 Ohms, that's because we're using ONLY one RED and ONLY one BLUE to make the circuit thru the Driver instead of 2 REDS and 2 BLUES. 



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 Always MAINTAIN a clean and uncluttered workplace. It cutz down on Mistakes. OOOPs, what happened here! need to edit this PIC out. 
 Here you see some stuff you'll need, Like Solder, an Iron, FLUX makes your life much easier, an assortment of soldering tips helps. Helping hands(Third Hand) you can get from MPJA.com for about $5.95 or so.



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 Here you can see that the wires are married up and tinned with solder. Look at one of the BLUE pairs, you'll see the sharpie ID marks to ID those going with the RED pair. The unmarked ones obviously go with the WHITE pair.



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 At this stage make sure you start threading on your Heatshrink, Techflex, Multifilament Nylon, etc. The Dish washing liquid I used as a Lube to get the wires easily thru the heat shrink. The soap dries like a paste after you shrink the heat shrink. If you can get by without using it, GREAT!



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 Here you see the Neutrik Strain relief, end pieces threaded on. I promise you, if you do many connectors, you'll forget this one little step. That mistake usually leads to Alcohol consumption in most of us, myself included. The alcohol consumption usually leads to more mistakes in subsequent steps. Vicious Cycle, Beware!



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 Let's go over the XLR pinout.

 Well most manufacturers use pin 2 hot:

 Pin 1 = Shield ground
 Pin 2 = Positive balanced signal
 Pin 3 = Negative balanced signal

 Mnemonic: XLR = Shield,Live,Return

 Looking into the female connector with the locking tag up top
 right is #1, top left #2, bottom #3
 ___ ___
 / v \
 | 2 1 |
 \ 3 /
 \_____/
 Since our cable has no shield, we won't be using PIN1.

 Here we are in the Helping hands with Our signal wire(RED) or HOT wire or LIVE wire in position 2 and the BLUE ground wires in Position 3. The Connector Cup was prepped with a FLUX pen prior to positioning the wires. Trim your wires so that the wire goes all the way into the cup and the insulation is "almost" up against the cup. Look on the end of the XLR connector, the pins will be labeled 1, 2, 3 for ID purposes. Pay close attention to this. Remember you are coming from the rear with the wire and may be turning the connector upside down to solder. This makes your numbers move around in Space. Double, Triple check before soldering.



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 Soldered! I usually Pull it out of the Helping hands and check for 32 Ohms across the driver for Good measure. Finish putting your Connectors together. Do the same for the other Channel.



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 Voila, we had FUN, and Saved $$$$




 *** Always wear Eyeglasses or Reading Glasses or some type of protection for your Eyes when Soldering. There is a lot of splatter of Boiling Flux. I've got splashed in my eye before and it can make for an unpleasant couple of days.

 *** I used Cardas Quad Eutectic Solder. It is so easy to work with and Melts so easily, it's a Dream. Kinda expensive if you don't shop around. But worth it IMO.

 If anybody finds something to change or add or any mistakes I made, Chime in and I'll fix it.

 This should also suffice for a how to Upgrade a TRS Jack Tutorial as well.

 Hope a few Folks find this useful.

 .


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*[size=small]Grado GS1000 XLR Project
[/size]*

 The Dish washing liquid I used as a Lube to get the wires easily thru the heat shrink. *The soap dries like a paste after you shrink the heat shrink.* If you can get by without using it, GREAT!_

 

Easy way to avoid that.

 Before you shrink up the heatshrink, just run the cable under some warm tap water and rinse off the soap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 k


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Koyaan I. Sqatsi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Easy way to avoid that.

 Before you shrink up the heatshrink, just run the cable under some warm tap water and rinse off the soap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 k_

 

Hey thanx! I've never had a problem just leaving it in there, but that's a good Idea. 

 .


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## Markj

Nice equipment.


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Markj* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice equipment._

 

I am attracted to hobbies that give me an Excuse to buy a new tool, witness my ToolBox for a serious addiction, and it's FULL! Don't get me started on Tools!










 Here's the Last Big Project I did with them 650HP BIG PIC, but worth it.
http://www.lesgarten.com/pix/porsche/DSCF0598.JPG


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## johnwmclean

les_garten, terrific post


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## The Monkey

Nicely done, les. It's always a pleasure to read a good How To.


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## LaidBack

Great stuff, thanks a lot Les!


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## Steve Eddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *les_garten* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey thanx! I've never had a problem just leaving it in there, but that's a good Idea._

 

No problem!

 Yeah, it's not likely to hurt anything. But some folks might feel a little ill at ease thinking about their being some toe jam-like substance lurking under their heatshrink. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 se


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nicely done, les. It's always a pleasure to read a good How To._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LaidBack* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great stuff, thanks a lot Les! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've got tons of Info from you guys here and thought it would be nice to do one while I was doing a Cable Job. If it helps somebody, I'll get a smile out of it!

 .


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## cheemo

Excellent post with pics and nice work station you have LG!


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## krmathis

Great work!
 Seems like the re-termination came out really nice.


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *krmathis* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great work!
 Seems like the re-termination came out really nice. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah it did! I did these yesterday too. This was a total Recable with Canare "DUAL" Star Quad Snake Cable with Drivers that were Doped with some Black Tar Dynamat Extreme. This set sounds AWESOME! I didn't get to my D5000s on Friday, but they're up next for a DUAL star Quad Recable.




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 >>


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## Nerull

Great post! It's inspired me to do the same with my phones (certainly cheaper than sending them in!).

 ~Thomas


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Nerull* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great post! It's inspired me to do the same with my phones (certainly cheaper than sending them in!).

 ~Thomas_

 

Thanx, that's the reward I wanted from this post! I tried to explain everything in detail so someone who had never picked up a DMM could do it. Cabling is fun for a few Cables, very Zen Intensive! I wouldn't want to do it for a living, somewhat Tedious. 

 Just don't get in a Hurry and think everything through, and ask a lot of questions in this forum, after you read and search a lot of course! This is my Favorite part of Head-Fi, this forum. There are some pretty serious Engineers in here who would be very expensive to contract out for consulting services. 

 .


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## devin_mm

Thanks for the how-to!
 I am going to use the bit I cut off to make a balanced to unbalanced adapter.
 Interestingly my GS-1000s only had four cables not eight.


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## The Monkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devin_mm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the how-to!
 I am going to use the bit I cut off to make a balanced to unbalanced adapter.
 Interestingly my GS-1000s only had four cables not eight._

 

When were they made? The switchover to 8 conductors from 4 is fairly recent iirc.


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *devin_mm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the how-to!
 I am going to use the bit I cut off to make a balanced to unbalanced adapter.
 Interestingly my GS-1000s only had four cables not eight._

 

Hi,
 Nice job! I should have mentioned about the wire number possibly being different.


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## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *The Monkey* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When were they made? The switchover to 8 conductors from 4 is fairly recent iirc._

 

Only the 'i' one (GS1000i) has the 8 conductors cable, I think.


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Only the 'i' one (GS1000i) has the 8 conductors cable, I think._

 

That's correct.

 .


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## Dinan

Nice write up and very nice engine! From a 930 or something else tuboed?


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Dinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice write up and very nice engine! From a 930 or something else tuboed?_

 


 Yep! 1985 930. Porsche's version of the Muscle Car.

 No Power Brakes
 No Power Steering
 No Hydraulic Clutch

 650 German Ponies on Tap!

 .


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## tim3320070

Les,
 Thanks for this, I could not have balanced my 325is without it. Grado does not answer their phone (2 tries- rings and rings) and no response to emails.
 Tim


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## les_garten

Good Deal! Makes you feel connected to your gear doesn't it!


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## tim3320070

I'm more balanced now than being on Zanex.....I mean beer.


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## les_garten

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tim3320070* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm more balanced now than being on Zanex.....I mean beer._

 

Same Difference, ehhh!






 .


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## tim3320070

This is the 4th time I have referred to this post for a recable job- thanks Les!


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## les_garten

Quote: 





tim3320070 said:


> This is the 4th time I have referred to this post for a recable job- thanks Les!


 

 Thanx Tim-Oh!  That makes my day!
   
  I have the 4-Pin tutorial for my HF-2's I need to post as well.


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## grokit

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> I have the 4-Pin tutorial for my HF-2's I need to post as well.


 
   
  Bumping to ask if this was ever posted anywhere?
   
  Because I have a question regarding the shielding balanced headphone cables when using 4-pin xlr:
   
  I believe that when using shield wires they would be connected to the unused pins of dual 3-pin xlr connectors, and go unconnected to anything at the headphone end(?). But what about when using a single 4-pin xlr instead of the dual 3-pins, would you connect the shield wires just to each other at the xlr end, or just leave them unconnected to anything like on the other end?
   
  I understand that many feel that shield wires aren't even necessary for this type of cable but that is not what I am trying to figure out.
   
  Thanks


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## les_garten

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Bumping to ask if this was ever posted anywhere?
> 
> Because I have a question regarding the shielding balanced headphone cables when using 4-pin xlr:
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Hi,
     I started writing up the post but never finished it.  I'm moving now and it's not gonna happen soon unless somebody bumps me in a few months.  On some of the 4 pins I've seen there is a 5th spot.  It's a ground tab.  I would connect both shields to that point.  Acomplishes what you are trying to do.  I think connecting the shields is a good idea.


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## grokit

Thanks Les, agreed. There is a certain cable maker that we all know can't solder but I had a feeling his design was screwey as well, and you are not the only one to confirm this. Four shield wires, connected to nothing at all, not even each to other does nothing but make a cable twice as heavy lol.


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## CARRION FEAST

Intriguing post Les. I have zero experience with DIY, but have always thought that one day I'd end up doing my own mods (even if just to save _hundreds_ of dollars), and I've always thought it would be fun. Your post certainly confirms my suspicions. I just spent $300 on an adapter & cables to balance my HD25-1 ii's for my RSA Protector & seeing all the parts on-line & their prices compared to what I just paid (for something I now know I can do myself _for cost_), makes me weep a little on the inside. So I say - thank you again sir, I look forward to my first project (some balanced IEM cables)


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## les_garten

Quote: 





carrion feast said:


> Intriguing post Les. I have zero experience with DIY, but have always thought that one day I'd end up doing my own mods (even if just to save _hundreds_ of dollars), and I've always thought it would be fun. Your post certainly confirms my suspicions. I just spent $300 on an adapter & cables to balance my HD25-1 ii's for my RSA Protector & seeing all the parts on-line & their prices compared to what I just paid (for something I now know I can do myself _for cost_), makes me weep a little on the inside. So I say - thank you again sir, I look forward to my first project (some balanced IEM cables)


 


   
  There is a lot of satisfaction from doing it yourself for sure.


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## markkr

Hi Les, not sure how I've managed to mis this awesome DIY for so long.
   
  How did you "filet" the plug? I want to try to remove the "Y" in my Grado cables and just have simple heat shrink.
   
  Thanks, Mark


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## les_garten

Hey,
     I just used a very sharp utility knife, a firm surface, and took my time.  That "Y" on the Grados is a joke.


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## cyberspyder

I like your KRL Les!


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## les_garten

Quote: 





cyberspyder said:


> I like your KRL Les!


 


   
   
 [size=medium]Tools!
   
  I think a Coke addiction would be cheaper!
   
  Thanx!​[/size]


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## cyberspyder

Oh, like you wouldn't believe. LOL, good thing I'm not a 100% Snap-On person, I can't imagine having 100k tied up in my box.

One more thing, 722 or 1022? Really want to pick up a Taco cart, or anything with sprung wheels, sooooo much better than regular casters. Too bad the current KRLs have gaudy chrome casters...


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## markkr

Quote: 





les_garten said:


> Hey,
> I just used a very sharp utility knife, a firm surface, and took my time.  That "Y" on the Grados is a joke.


 

 Thank You. I'm going to give it a shot this weekend.


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## les_garten

Quote: 





markkr said:


> Thank You. I'm going to give it a shot this weekend.


 


  Are you going to slice off the entire covering?
   
  Not sure what you want to do here?


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## markkr

I was going to just remove the "y" but now I think I'm going to strip everything down and braid it... put some thin techflex on it and be done...
   
  I have an idea of heating up an old knife and trying to filet the "Y"


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## les_garten

To each his own.  I don't like the TechFlex, I would recommend MultiFilament Nylon.  It is soft, flexible,  and quiet.


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## markkr

Thanks, I'll check into finding some of that.


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## qusp

Les, sorry for the bump mate, just checking since i've been asked to quote on a gs1000 recable, i've done some of their other woodies including RS series, but never these, are these drivers glued in as well like most others? that was a pita with the last lot I did. some true vintage ones are no worries as the glue is perished so easy to remove, but the idea of hitting gs1000 with a hot air tool, or putting in a plastic bag then dunking in hot water to soften the glue; doesnt excite me … basically trying to get an idea if whether what i'll need to do will require me refinishing the cups. I do wish they used more serviceable fastening methods


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## les_garten

Quote: 





qusp said:


> Les, sorry for the bump mate, just checking since i've been asked to quote on a gs1000 recable, i've done some of their other woodies including RS series, but never these, are these drivers glued in as well like most others? that was a pita with the last lot I did. some true vintage ones are no worries as the glue is perished so easy to remove, but the idea of hitting gs1000 with a hot air tool, or putting in a plastic bag then dunking in hot water to soften the glue; doesnt excite me … basically trying to get an idea if whether what i'll need to do will require me refinishing the cups. I do wish they used more serviceable fastening methods


 
   
   
  Hi,
     I didn't change the cable on mine, I just reterminated the Grado wire to balanced.  My understanding is that they are glued in.
   
  I "believe" you may be able to work the grills out so you could use a dowel or pencil to push on the driver a little.  Heat with a hair dryer very slowly and you should be ok.  I've never used a water bath.  I did use a heat gun "once" and the wire outer was melted quick.  So I found a hair dryer is better.  Their glue ain't much, fairly low temp.
   
  Most folks recabling GS-1000s charge a bit for the job because they are such a PITA and there is so much risk involved.
   
  I haven't been on Head Fi in a while so no problems with the Bump!


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## qusp

thanks for the quick reply LES!, gotta love HF diy section, finding info on otherwise niche/un-tread paths via google fu alone is not high yield. the last MS-pro (pink mesh driver) I did I was able to get open with a set of very fine surgical blades and some wiggling; by just running the blade around the groove, the glue was really old so a hairdryer was producing inconsistent results, some was too dried out to properly soften. I just masked off the front of the driver to be safe, but no joy and didnt want to push my luck.
   
  yep it certainly wouldnt be done as a favor, this type of work has a danger money quota. I've done all sorts of high dollar cans with no mishap as yet, so the nerves are pretty good, but all the same … the grados are probably the biggest pita i've done so far, apart from some DX1000 that already had cracked hinges/swivels that I had to crack open and reinforce from the inside, came up good as, possibly stronger than new.
   
  Yeah I saw you had only reterminated your 8 wire cable lol on a 28ohm Grado, why do you think they did that? just in case one wire went there would be backup? it sure doesnt need the current handling. I saw later that you had worked on some friends similar cans with 2 x quad, I hoped being an owner and diyer you would probably know what the deal was.
   
  anyway thanks for the confirmation, welcome back! I havent been spending as much time here lately either, pretty happy with my rig these days and if I feel like a change I build something
   
  cheers


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## bmichels

Gentlemen, after reading this post, my question is :   Is there a real sonic advantage using the GS1000 ra-wired balanced (of course, with a balanced DAC/AMP) ?  How will you describe the improvement in sound quality ? What aspect of the sound is changed ? 
   
  thanks in advance


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## les_garten

Typically if you are going from Single ended to balanced, you are doing it for an amp change.
   
  Not all amps are the same, some are better than others, some you may just ike the sound of better, so yes, balanced makes a big difference.   Mainly because of the amp that is being used.
   
  I have not A/B'd Single ended outputs and balanced outputs out of the same amp, even though I could have.  I suspect I would not have heard a difference, if the levels were matched.  But who knows.  Theoretically balanced is better.


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## Tribbs

Sorry to bring this old thread back. But, when researching a balanced conversion for my Grado's I found this thread as well as the following schematic:



Clearer view here: http://web.archive.org/web/20131006214002im_/http://www.headphone.com/images/balancedamp.gif
Source: http://www.headphone.com/pages/balanced-headphones-guide

It seems for a proper XLR conversion the balanced cable shield should be floating at the cans.
In my case I will be replacing the Grado cables with a pair of Belden 1800F balanced cable.


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## chelrob

Hi Mr. Les...
 Does the Grado SR80e have enough wires to convert to balanced by re-terminating the stock cable?


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## les_garten

chelrob said:


> Hi Mr. Les...
> Does the Grado SR80e have enough wires to convert to balanced by re-terminating the stock cable?


 
  
  
 Not sure.
  
 Look into the Cans with a bright light and count the wires.
  
 Bring the answer back here


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## chelrob

I see Blue and White wires on one side and Blue and Orange wires on the other side.  Looks like one of each, so two wires per side.


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## les_garten

chelrob said:


> I see Blue and White wires on one side and Blue and Orange wires on the other side.  Looks like one of each, so two wires per side.


 
  
 Ok,
  
  
 Not sure how the 80E is cabled, as in how many wires, shield, etc, but there are probably 2 Blue wires, 1 White and 1 Orange with no shield.
  
 Since you are doing this, I assume you can strip and solder, right?
  
 And you are somewhat committed, right?
  
 You got all your parts/tools together?
  
 Do you have a Multimeter?


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## chelrob

Well, if they can be balanced by re-terminating the stock cable, my next question is would you be interested in doing the conversion, for a fee of course?


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## les_garten

chelrob said:


> Well, if they can be balanced by re-terminating the stock cable, my next question is would you be interested in doing the conversion, for a fee of course?


 
  
  
 Sure, I'll do it for you.
  
 You want 4 pin or Dual 3 pix xlr?
  
 I have some 4 pin Neutrik XLRs I just saw recently while making some XLR Patch cables.
  
 According to this, it has a 4 conductor cable which is good.
  
http://www.gradolabs.com/headphones/prestige-series/item/1-sr80e


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## chelrob

Hi Les, I sent you a pm.


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