# USB Strikes Back!  Watch out AOIP - USB/Ethernet Chain beats All (at least for me)



## rb2013

OK after years of computer audio exploration - I have reached the mountain top.  The 'Game Over' end solution for source chain - and the results are beyond any thing I could have imagined when I started this exploration a few years back - see my previous ground breaking threads.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip
  
 But this one is what I will run with for the foreseeable future - I can not ask for anything more or better.  No improvement could come to mind - just more time to listen to my entire music collection again - with a whole new take on things - really like hearing some of these recordings (even 30yr old and heard countless thousands of times) - for the first time.
  
 I know the USB/Ethernet chain I will describe below with shock some people.  Oh how I love reading those threads on other blogs - especially that profanity laced one.  Starting back in June of this year - when my XU208 F-1 discovery was announced here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived
  
 Then later with this thread on AOIP and the Focusrite Rednet gear:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-over-ip-rednet-3-16-review-aes67-sets-a-new-standard-for-computer-audio
  
 The MARV-E-LOUS ranting on my listening results - and then reading all the happy folks trying the F-1 and then the SU-1, then later the REDNET.  Oh how MARV-E-LOUSLY ridiculous the ridicule seems now in hindsight !  Yes these USB gizmo's and devices work and with just the right combination - to world class sound quality levels.
  
 So on with the show.
  
 Just want folks who have not read my previous threads to know a little on my background.  Been a music fan and musician almost my entire life.  Mostly Guitar for me - both electric (love my Fender Tele!) and acoustic (Takamine!).  Starting back in the 70's with vinyl and cassettes.  Owned three different Nakamichi cassette decks in college and after - and so many vinyl rigs I could not list them all here.  But later (around 15 yrs ago) my vinyl rig got serious and seriously expensive - culminating in this analog chain:
 Dynavector XV1-S (Benz Ebony LP as well)>VPI Super Scout Master Signature (Nordost Valhalla tone are wiring)>Valhalla IC>Bent Audio Silver Step-Transformers>Conrad Johnson Phone Pre (NOS Siemens CCa tubes)>Valhalla IC>Conrad Johnson CAT2....

  
 I thought I had this vinyl thing sounding pretty good.  Mostly virgin pressed vinyl every one of those amazing 200gm Classic Records QUIEX SV-P I could find (a lot of them!).  The height of vinyl greatness (esp the 45rpm ones).

  
 So I know what great vinyl sound like - and let me say that what I have now for a digital source - RUNS CIRCLES AROUND IT!  Yes that's right this digital chain smokes the best I could get from vinyl.  Not saying if you spend $200-$300K you can't get better from analog - but that's not the kind of money I have to spend.  I firmly believe that even with that investment you will never get the level of ink black floor noise - that will reveal all this hidden detail.  And why that detail is so important to realistic music production...but more on that latter.
  
*AOIP or USB - *
That is the real question - because the discovery of AES67 Audio Over IP Dante (through REDNET and BURL) is where I felt the best of analog was finally beaten.  But the trail to get here, and to that question was a long arduous one.  Why blog about that journey?  Good question - I have suffered much derision and abuse on these past threads - but also have learned some things and have had the true satisfaction of seeing my skeptics proven wrong time and time again (oh to see all those crows eaten!).  And for the most part the feedback has been universally positive - so thanks to those kind folks.  This is my journey - and I'm not asking anyone else to purchase anything - or follow my path.  If you do great!  But as always YMMV.  I post this, as with my other audio discoveries (like the 1975 Reflektor Silver SWGP tubes - I call the 'HGs'), to give back to the community.  I am in no way associated or affiliated with any audio company.   This new thread will likely be the most controversial of them all.  So please holster the flame throwers - I don't want this thread shut down like many of the others.  OK on to the serious business - what has got me so enthralled:
  
Here would be my current ratings and rankings (the numbers are just a relative number - they are not percentages).  The Breeze Audio (Talema) DU-U8 = 100
 
Obviously these are my subjective ratings YMMV - and yes I have owned (had a loaner) all these for an extended period of time:
  
Ultra USB chain (details to long to list)                                                                     370
BURL B2B DAC with DANTE Brooklyn II/ modded w/LPS power                                 285
REDNET 3/Cerious Graphene/Mutec 3+ USB (SPDIF)/Antelope OCX (RN wClock)      270
REDNET 3/Cerious/Mutec 3+ USB/Audience au24 se digital cable                              250
REDNET 3/Cerious/Mutec 3+ USB (SPDIF reclocker)/AS Sliver Statement dig cable   240
REDNET 3/Cerious Power Cord                                                                                220
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2/Startech GB LAN Iso USB         170
Mutec 3+ Smart Clock USB/Cerious Power Cord                                                      155
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2                                                145
PUC2 Lite TeraDak DC30W/Cerious/Regen                                                               135
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious                                                                                    135
DXIO Silver/TeraDak DC-30W/Cerious                                                                      130
Singxer X-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/iPur2                                                 125
PUC2 Lite - USB power                                                                                             110
Singxer F-1  Stock feed                                                                                            110
Breeze/Cerious Graph/WBT RCA Nexgen                                                                   109
Breeze DU-U8 with Cerious Graphene                                                                       108
 Breeze DU-U8 (Talema version)                                                                              100
Breeze DU-U8 (BingZi version)                                                                                  95
Hydra Z with LPS                                                                                                      92
Melodious MX-U8 (upgraded caps)                                                                            85
Melodious MX-U8 (stock)                                                                                          81
Gustard U12 (upgraded caps)                                                                                   76
 Gustard U12 stock                                                                                                    72
iDAC DAC2 (used as a DDC)                                                                                      65
Musiland USB3.0 US Dragon                                                                                       65
M2Tech EVO with LPS                                                                                                60
Audiophileo 2  USB Power                                                                                          50
M2Tech Hiface                                                                                                           40
  
  
*USB ULTRA CHAIN:*
  
*DATA CHAIN: WIN10 MUSIC SERVER (SSD for OS)>JB (modded as a VBUS Blocker)>LH LABS 2G(Data leg)>Startech LEX>BJC CAT6 550Mhz Ethernet>Startech REX>JB (modded as a VBUS Blocker)>LH LABS 2G(Data Leg)>W4S Recovery>stock Recovery 6in USB cable>iFi iPUR2>Singxer F-1>SR Element Copper(Galieo MPC)>DAC60 (heavily modded/HG tubes).*
  
 POWER CHAIN: PC SeaSonic fanless high PSRR (El Fidelity SATA filters)
 LEX - TeraDak X1/X2 (Nichicon HW caps)
 REX - MEIYAN low noise LPS (24VDC - 11uv noise)
 Recovery (which feeds the F-1 with the iPUR2 in between) TeraDak DC-30W 9VDC/DC iPur.
  
 Note the PC Server is running Fidelized Pro - Purist level
  
 The key here is a discovery I found after someone who PM'd me to ask if I ever tried USB sticks (for music files) in the REX?  I tried it and was very pleased, so I purchased three 256GB USB sticks for the three empty slots - giving me approx 750GB for music storage.  So with this storage - no moving parts in the music server - all music files are stored outside the PC and powered by a LPS.
  
 On the Startech I use - and there a few different ones out there - it is this one:
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HFGQESY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 Note it must be the four port GB LAN version.  I have tried some others and they sounded awful.
  
 ICRON is the OEM producer of this unit but has since changed the chipset from XLINX SPARTAN 6 FPGA to custom ASIC's.  I have not heard this version, so can not give a good or bad verdict on it.
  
 Here are some pictures of the one I run:
  

  

  
  
  
  
 So how does it sound?  Versus Rednet AOIP?
 I posted this on my AOIP thread recently:


> No SPDIF reclocker. I tried the iFi SPDIF relcocker and it made the SQ worse, so I sent it back for a refund.  Now a better SPDIF reclocker like the Mutec MC-3+ USB might make the SQ slightly better - but it's over $1000 - a lot of money for a marginal improvement.
> 
> The chain is quite complex - and was arrived at by innumerable variations and trials.  But the payoff has been absolutely worth it.  In fact, I've been at this for a couple of years now - and the level of SQ improvements just continues to startle me.  I'm noticing a level of detail retrieval that is unprecedented in ANY system I have heard (including Jason Serinus and his DCS Rossini player and clock - see his review in the the latest issue of Stereophile
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-rossini-player-rossini-clock-jason-victor-serinus#dUxUeAx2LDv3mmu2.97).
> ...


 
  
  
 Why does it sound so good?  Well great question I posted this:


> Someone over on this CA thread mentioned that USB sticks sound better then SSD or HDD:
> 
> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f7-disk-storage-music-library-storage/does-solid-state-drive-sound-better-hard-disk-1650/index4.html
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Further comments:


> albrecht said:
> 
> 
> > Fascinating. I am waiting with great interest for your new thread.
> ...


 
  
  
 I have tried to simplify the chain - notably replacing the TeraDak DC302/DC iPur and Recovery with a LT3042 .8uv LPS to feed the F-1 by the power leg of the 2G and the SQ deteriorated - so a no go.


----------



## thisisvv

Would like to see picture of your entire digital chain if possible.


----------



## rb2013

thisisvv said:


> Would like to see picture of your entire digital chain if possible.


 

 Well the Startech boxes are small and are tucked away behind the shelving unit I keep my stereo gear on.  Same for the LPS's powering the LEX and REX.  Not very impressive to see just some blinking lights and cables.  I will take a photo of my DIY Singxer F-1 'box'.  I do use some vibration isolation underneath the F-1 and Recovery with 'BB Boxes' on top to reduce vibration and stabilize.  All very unimpressive looking - it would likely set off more flaming that is sure to come.
  
 I was thinking of building a DAC sized box and just mounting everything inside.  The F-1, Recovery, REX and LEX are all small in size.  Might do that at one point.  But right this unassuming looking chain is very low on the wife's 'audio spending' radar.  She gave me hell for the Rednet3/Mutec/Antelope stack!


----------



## rb2013

I should note that the Ultra USB chain and the Jitterbugs I modded to VBUS Blockers - they still do the JB function but with the addition of no +5VDC VBUS coming after.  They make a slight difference in SQ and I could live without.  They add just a touch of warmth, which was more important in the beginning, before everything settled in.
  
 I do prefer them installed.


----------



## rb2013

Here is a picture of one of the key components - the Singxer F-1 DDC:
  

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Singxer-F-1-XMOS-XU208-USB-Digital-Interface-384K-S-PDIF-I2S-DSD256-with-CRYSTEK-/172405416314?hash=item282429e17a:g:iZcAAOSwB09YJa5A


----------



## rb2013

On the W4S Recovery - I had at one point a Regen.  I much preferred the Recovery.  Likely the use of better clocks - Crystek CCHD-575 (same as the F-1):


----------



## rb2013

Lastly the three regulated linear power supplies - the biggest complication - the use of three separate units.  These are from Ebay and China.  Likely even better results could be had from a better LPS like the Uptone JS-2 or new LSP-1:
  
 TeraDak DC-30 W with stock caps - mine has upgraded Nichicon HW caps (by me):

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-DC-30W-DC9V-2-5A-KOSS-ESP950-Linear-Power-supply-/222351453461?hash=item33c52ded15:g:4SEAAOSwuzRXfSLN
  
 For the LEX - TeraDak X1/X2 Stock first pic with Nichicon HW caps 2nd pic:

  

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-TeraLink-X1-X2-DC8-5V-1A-USB-DC5V-port-Linear-Power-Supply-/322364742306?hash=item4b0e6f9aa2:g3cAAOSw-FZXkEMi
  
 For the REX - this 24VDC Breeze Audio was fine (LT1083 LDO):

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/161870356771?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 One of my last experiments was upgrading this to a MEIYAN 24VDC LPS - a small improvement in SQ:

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/131867485038?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I added a silver Teddy Pardo DC cable for $29.
  
 All power cords are inexpensive Epitome generic silver.


----------



## Albrecht

Hi RB:
  
 Been waiting anxiously for this new thread. Thanks again for all of your great experimentation.
  
 Just for clarification, - and apologies if I missed this in your thread,- all USB SSD sticks are plugged into the REX?, - (which is the receiving Ethernet to USB Startech adapter).
 Correct?
 Also, - Does your LEX feed into a switch on your LAN, and then into the receiver, or do they have a direct CAT6 cable, and/or are they separated over a long CAT6 run? (I am sorry, but I forgot if the LEX has multiple USB ports or just one).
  
 Great how you point out for readers that the new PSAudio devices cannot work as they don't have multiple USB ports.
  
 Yes, - it will be interesting to compare the newer ICRON converters that use the ASICs FPGA, and if they are better, worse, same as the others.
  
 Thanks again for getting this new post up. Also, - one of the great things about this "system," is that you can easily transport these, (with the possible exception of the their corresponding, {bigger}, LPSs), - to anyone else's system and see how they faire with different types of components: systems.
  
 Cheers,


----------



## wushuliu

Awesome... thanks so much for your promethean efforts!


----------



## rb2013

albrecht said:


> Hi RB:
> 
> Been waiting anxiously for this new thread. Thanks again for all of your great experimentation.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Albrecht,

 Thanks for the kudos!
  
 Yes the REX has five ports, four USB and one Ethernet.  So the USB sticks plug into the three remaining open USB ports - one of course is used to feed the USB data chain to the Recovery then on to the F-1.
  
 The LEX has only two ports one USB and the other Ethernet.  The Ethernet connects to the REX Ethernet input.  The open USB port on LEX connects to the PC USB port.  Normally it would receive it's power from the +5VDC USB on the PC.  But with a LH Labs 2G split cable that power feed can come from an external +5VDC LPS.

  
 Now I have the LEX connecting directly to the REX by a BJC CAT 6 UTP 550Mhz cable.  But it could just as well go over a GB LAN.
  
 Yes it could all fit in a small box - so not that hard to transport.  Also what is nice is someone can start with just the F-1, then add the TeraDak DC-30W, then Recovery, then the Startech, then the LPS's for the Startech boxes, etc...or just stop where they are happy.  Unlike with AOIP currently which requires a larger investment upfront.  And with all the AOIP gizmo's a much bigger investment in total.


----------



## rb2013

wushuliu said:


> Awesome... thanks so much for your promethean efforts!


 

 Great way to put it!
  
 Cheers


----------



## thisisvv

Isn't this total investment will go beyond what a simple aoip 700$ solution provides with Dante.

Though we have proven many times we never stop spending on this habit.


----------



## rb2013

thisisvv said:


> Isn't this total investment will go beyond what a simple aoip 700$ solution provides with Dante.
> 
> Though we have proven many times we never stop spending on this habit.


 

 Well that $700 is for the limited Dante Ultimo chip solution.  Limited to 96k, and I highly doubt the same SQ as the FPGA SPARTAN Dante Brooklyn I or II implementation in the REDNET 3 and 16.  I know some folks have compared the two side by side - but I doubt that seriously. 
  
 So the Rednet 3 starts at $1000.  Now add a Mutec MC-3+ USB another $1000, Antelope OCX external word clock another $1000 = so $3000 before upgraded power cords or wclock cables.
  
 And this total solution at less then half blows it away!  Not cheap but...
  
 Or for the same money you could get an Uptone JS-2 for the Startech boxes and LSP-1 for the Recovery/F-1.  Bet that would sound great.  Add in a couple of Cerious Tech Graphene Extreme power cords (I have one now - but sold the rest - wish I kept them all). 
  
 But as I said the SQ now is lacking nothing - I'm at last fully satisfied with my digital audio.  Blowing away the best analog I had  - and just that Dynavector XV1-S was $5K...
  
 I will at some point try a different brand USB 256GB stick - using PNY right now - so maybe for another $60 bucks some thing better?


----------



## rb2013

Oh and SR following is not an issue - never was for me - but some folks were obsessed about on the AOIP thread.
  
 What that means if I have a 44k file then a 192k file the AOIP has a somewhat finicky ability to change SR's on the fly - especially if you are using an ext wClock.  On the BURL is was impossible.
  
 With the USB F-1 never misses a beat - I can run 384k files with virtually zero latency as well.  DSD 256 as well native.  The F-1 can do i2s with a custom made cable.  Although I run SPDIF coax into my DAC.


----------



## Clemmaster

Does the Startech require 24V no matter what, or can it run with a lower voltage?


----------



## kazsud

thisisvv said:


> Would like to see picture of your entire digital chain if possible.


 

 You'd need a full frame camera w/ a ultra wide lens.


----------



## rb2013

clemmaster said:


> Does the Startech require 24V no matter what, or can it run with a lower voltage?


 

 Someone said it could run on 18V - but the SMPS that came with it put out 24VDC.  Since each of the USB slots are used - but one does not drawn power.  And each of the three with the USB sticks draws 3.3V - I decided to say with the original voltage.


----------



## rb2013

kazsud said:


> You'd need a full frame camera w/ a ultra wide lens.


 

 Actually X-Ray vision to see behind my stereo rack


----------



## rb2013

I thought I would make a few other comments.  When I moved to the AOIP from USB - I noticed a certain haze or USB effect on the SQ.  Speculating that it was from the USb 'packet noise', I think now that is was related to CPU processing related noise.  The constant varying CPU load levels induce a modulation distortion.  By moving away from high current draw spinning drives and moving as much storage processing out of the PC power chain.  My thinking is this minimizes this modulated current issue.
  
 My PC is a WIN 10 iCore 7 - 4790 with 12GB of DDR3 memory.  Fanless CPU cooling tower, El Fidelity SATA filters, Seasonic Fanless high PSRR power supply.
  
 I use a Audience Ar1p (provides AC line filtering and balancing) plugged into a Synergistic Research Tesla power socket.  This feeds three separate Art Audio PB4X4Pro AC line isolators and filters.  Each with 40dB of common and differential mode power filtering.  One for my DAC, one for the DDC source chain and one for the PC server.
  


> All PRO SERIES models have an additional internal discrete module called APF™ (Advanced Power Filtering) which filters out digital and dimmer hash as well as any high frequency noise that is above the audio range. Some off-the-shelf add-on modules saturate and lose their filtering effectiveness as the load increases, but by using a high power discrete design we were able to create a filter that stays effective over the full operating range.
> By using both Common Mode and Differential Mode topologies in series for the filter design we are able to block virtually all of the unwanted noise that is between the AC line and ground, and also the two sides of the AC line. This has the additional benefit of reducing ground loop problems in your system. High frequency noise currents in particular are highly attenuated in both directions so that any line noise that could be generated by one of your components is not allowed to get back into your main A.C. wiring so if you use a number of PRO SERIES Power Conditioners in your setup, you can distribute and isolate the noisy components from the sensitive components in your system. Additionally, any signals above 10kHz are filtered from the line with over 40dB of attenuation above 100kHz and beyond.


 
  I have noticed that these DDC devices are sensitive to clean power, multiple femto clocks.  One each in the LEX and REX, one in the Recovery and tow in the F-1.


----------



## rb2013

The idea of this thread is to kind of consolidate all the info in my other XU208 and AOIP threads - and pickup on the Singxer F-1 XU208 discussion.  I can't count how many people have PM'd me to open a new F-1 thread.
  
 So to not only discuss this Ultra USB chain, but to resume that discussion.
  
 I would consider trying a DIYinHK Pro3z in place of the F-1, if anyone wanted to send one to me for a go.
  
 http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/111-xmos-192khz-high-quality-usb-to-spdif-with-ultralow-noise-1uv-regulator-wmanual-power-switch.html


----------



## thisisvv

rb2013 said:


> The idea of this thread is to kind of consolidate all the info in my other XU208 and AOIP threads - and pickup on the Singxer F-1 XU208 discussion.  I can't count how many people have PM'd me to open a new F-1 thread.
> 
> So to not only discuss this Ultra USB chain, but to resume that discussion.
> 
> ...


 
 if possible would be good to know how you like SU-1 as well.


----------



## goodvibes

Buy the new Naim Core, attach your drive(s), add your DAC of choice via SP/dif and call it a (very good) day.


----------



## rb2013

thisisvv said:


> if possible would be good to know how you like SU-1 as well.


 I never bought a SU-1, as I wanted control over the power supply. And it was more expensive. My experience with toroidal vs R- core LPS's showed me R- Cores superior.

See my linear power supply threads.


----------



## rb2013

goodvibes said:


> Buy the new Naim Core, attach your drive(s), add your DAC of choice via SP/dif and call it a (very good) day.


Yeah right :rolleyes:


----------



## rb2013

NAIM made Teddy Pardo rich, with their way over priced crappy power supplies.


----------



## goodvibes

Expected response. Linear PS including what runs the USB ports and drive options, purpose built codecs, FW and control app. Proper single galvanised 75 ohm BNC output. Instead of fixing PC problems, try not having them for a change.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Have you heard a Pardo supply? I LOL'd and felt sad for those that bought at the same time. Not quite up to speed if you get my drift.
  
 I'm out as this is a computer audio forum and while the Core will interface via file share and store it's probably stretching the intent here. I always felt this forum useful for those on a budget and trying to get the most for the least. Once you get to kilodollars(besides the PC) and Rube Goldberg rigs, I personally believe other options become more viable.
  
 Enjoy your journey. It hasn't ended and experimentation is fun. Try not to be so angry.


----------



## wushuliu

goodvibes said:


> Expected response. Linear PS including what runs the USB ports and drive options, purpose built codecs, FW and control app. Proper single galvanised 75 ohm BNC output. Instead of fixing PC problems, try not having them for a change.:wink_face:
> 
> Have you heard a Pardo supply? I LOL'd and felt sad for those that bought at the same time. Not quite up to speed if you get my drift.
> 
> ...




Um. Ok. Bye.


----------



## johnjen

Could you make a block diagram of your configuration, with a short description of each piece of gear in use?
 That would help me see what you've come up with and give me a sense of what's needed for implementation.
 As it stands now I don't understand what is where, nor the signal path etc.
  
 Thanks!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 JJ


----------



## Mr Underhill

goodvibes said:


> Expected response. Linear PS including what runs the USB ports and drive options, purpose built codecs, FW and control app. Proper single galvanised 75 ohm BNC output. Instead of fixing PC problems, try not having them for a change.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am not sure what else you could expect - it was a complete tangent.
  
 Yes I have heard and owned pardo supplies, together with my Naim gear, and they are very good; although different from Naim.
  
 We don't yet know how good or bad The Core is, I hope it is excellent. However, the SQ that is being supplied by via AOIP, USB chains, etc is in no way inferior to Naim IMO. Naim has the advantage of being a single supplier and so has sorted many issues ....at a price.
  
*M*


----------



## Mr Underhill

Hi Bob,
  
 Thanks for this. Very interesting, as always.
  
 M


----------



## hopkins

Have you used a 2 pc solution? I would think in that case the use of SSD versus HD versus USB for music storage would be of less consequence.


----------



## goodvibes

mr underhill said:


> I am not sure what else you could expect - it was a complete tangent.
> 
> Yes I have heard and owned pardo supplies, together with my Naim gear, and they are very good; although different from Naim.
> 
> ...


 
 I have heard it and it is great as a stand alone with DAC.. unlike it's forebearer Serve which was best only as UPNP server/ripper.
  
 For a PC setup, my budget preference would be a TC Electronic Impact Twin with a linear PS of choice. Needs to be 1A or higher.

 Use a high quality Firewrie cable to PC and Dig out cable to your DAC of choice. The internal DAC is Ok and will get you by until you want to improve. This type of setup is what I used 10 years ago with the Konnekt 8. Firewire is less viable in today's world but can still be added to PCs and most better laptops. I'd recommend a card that uses Intel chips. I used Wavelab with Wav files as player but that doesn't fit the cheap and cheerful so I'd use a  small footprint or alternatively, memory player that can interface via ASIO. Something like Foobar or one of the tweek players vs J.River or Itunes. It's been a while but I believe the TC is best setup via it's DAW option. Not as intuitive as consumer products but also not that difficult. I'd keep the firewire cable of better quality and short to help the clock and player coordinate better. 
  
 TC Konnekt uses the Dice II chipset and is the company that developed and patented JET jitter prevention technology that the OP was so heads over heals about in the VOIP thread. It's used here in it's optimized form, as a remote powered sound card via the 1394 interface which is required for the Jet tech (vs usb). It's been adapted for voip as a viable studio convenience but it's better as used this way if all your ducks are in a row. It can be adapted to Thunderbolt but I I'm not familiar with that interface so have no comment. This is the same interface used by Weiss products like the INT202 interface and DACs. There are also sound cards that use it but they will be bus powered etc.
  
 That's it, no voicing things a hundred different ways until you find the one that blends well with your kit, no reclocking (guessing) required unless you want to change bit rate which I don't recommend, no reinventing the wheel and the lowest jitter with best transfer available from a PC at the price. All IMO of course. 
  
 Not what I use now to just listen but when wanting to hear what's mixed properly from a PC, using a Weiss INT202 with linear supply, dig out to my fav DAC is the best I've found and I started in a similar place 10 years back when Itunes via tos out was thought to be perfect by the interwebs. I still think it's the most correct way to play a PC on a budget.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





​
  
 Things like better supplies and SSDs with their lower current draw and lack of vibration always help here but this is, for me, fundamentally better than anything USB though it seems fine for music file access.
 I thought I would add this since it's very related to the forum and just wanted to get it out there without starting a thread. Happy Holidays!


----------



## rb2013

goodvibes said:


> Expected response. Linear PS including what runs the USB ports and drive options, purpose built codecs, FW and control app. Proper single galvanised 75 ohm BNC output. Instead of fixing PC problems, try not having them for a change.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm not angry - just shinning a light on the 'Naim' cult.  I have heard much Naim gear and was never impressed - esp for the insane dollars they charge. 
  
 How they sold those BS LM317 (180uv of noise) based Naim HiCap - that they charged like $2000 for. 
  
 Then charged another $700 to 'upgrade' from the lowly LM317 LDO to a discrete design - with the DR. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/naim-audio-discrete-regulator-upgrade/
  


> Expecting there to be a steady stream of loyal followers seeking shifting from a power supply regulator on a chip to a discrete-component regulator module, the company was taken aback by the torrent. “Please don’t review it yet,” was the plaintive cry from the company’s PR man, “we can’t make ‘em fast enough!”


 


> Put simply, the DR upgrade is replacing the original LM317 power supply regulator chip with an all-discrete module; a two inch by one inch or so circuit board of surface mount devices, tantalum caps and heatsinks. It looks like the kind of MacGuffin James Bond would either have to extract or plug in somewhere just before the bad guy’s secret base exploded. The change is claimed to improve impulse response and lower noise across the board. According to Naim, the development of this new circuit took two years, to ensure it didn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. The small army of Naim modders have been using discrete regulation in their power supplies for some time, but some of these have create a radical change away from the core Naim sound in the process. This might well be great for those modders (what better way of putting your stamp on a hot-rodded product than to fundamentally change the sound?), but Naim Audio didn’t want to change the sound, just enhance it.


 
  
 So $2700 for a power supply that is probably not a good as the $150 Copper clad R-Core discrete regulation 11uv MEIYAN.
  
 I do give them some credit for showing what better linear power supplies can do to SQ. 


> So far, so LM317-equipped HiCap. What about the DR upgrades to that power supply? Interestingly, I found the DR upgrade to be one of those rare and blindingly obvious all-things-to-all-people kind of upgrades. This makes the Naim sound perhaps address some of the criticisms levelled at the brand by its detractors – the imaging, and especially the mid-band transparency are significantly improved, even on a fairly recent SuperNait. However, in the process, it retains all the typically Naim-like traits that Naim’s loyal following have loved for years, such as that almost stripped-back temporal precision and sense of musical correctness.


 
  
 For what they charge, I bet the owners all live in castles.
  
 The best from their Website:
 https://www.naimaudio.com/naim-for-bentley
  
 Sorry my extreme apologies  - I'm not in the 'Bentley' class.


----------



## rb2013

johnjen said:


> Could you make a block diagram of your configuration, with a short description of each piece of gear in use?
> That would help me see what you've come up with and give me a sense of what's needed for implementation.
> As it stands now I don't understand what is where, nor the signal path etc.
> 
> ...


 

 Sure I'll get the chain out from behind the rack and photograph it today.  That should make it a bit clearer.


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Thanks for this. Very interesting, as always.
> 
> M


 
 Cheers Mate!
  


hopkins said:


> Have you used a 2 pc solution? I would think in that case the use of SSD versus HD versus USB for music storage would be of less consequence.


 
 No that I have not tried.  But in essence that is what I have now.  With the Startech SPARTAN 6 FPGA in the REX doing the data storage retrieval and conversion.
  
 At this point when processing power increases on the small NUC bricks going that direction.  The PC is only doing one thing right now on a SSD drive - that is processing the audio player.  A noted industry person mentioned that part of the secret to the SQ improvement maybe the 'slower' processing of the CPU incoming data stream, then a SATA III would feed.  Less work on the part of the CPU to keep up, less modulation of the CPU processing power demands, less noise.
  
 It seems to me a Haswell iCore7 3.6Ghz and 12GB of DDR3 the processor load is very small.
  
 But I did notice a significant improvement in SQ after running Fidelizer (free) and another improvement running Fidelizer Pro (non-Networked Audio Player, Purist).  This would have shut down needless processes - and lowering the CPU load.  So maybe that is the key.
  
 I read somewhere that a noted audio engineer said you should have as 'much' PC processing power as possible - that loads on the CPU cause heat, and RFI/EMI noise, PS ground plane noise.  Even when operating at low reported levels - with today's powerful processors.
  
 This i partly why I have avoided a NUC like this Intel N3160 Quad-Cores 1.6Ghz, even with a LPS.​  
 http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71&product_id=83


----------



## goodvibes

rb2013 said:


> I'm not angry - just shinning a light on the 'Naim' cult.  I have heard much Naim gear and was never impressed - esp for the insane dollars they charge.
> 
> How they sold those BS LM317 (180uv of noise) based Naim HiCap - that they charged like $2000 for.
> 
> ...


 
 Probably allowed you to hear your sources. No wonder you keep trying.


----------



## rb2013

goodvibes said:


> No wonder you keep trying.


 

 Not trying anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - when a digital chain can blow a $30,000 Analog rig out of the water - that's my ticket!
  
 It doesn't have cute green lights (well the iPur2 has a small one) - but it sure sound amazing.  I will gladly put it up against Naim, Aurender, DCS, etc...


----------



## goodvibes

This time or last time?


----------



## rb2013

Ok back to a positive note...here is what I'm hearing:  Last night a 4 hour listening session - some details.
  
 First up was the epic Cat Stevens 'Tea for the Tillerman'  I have been listening to this amazing performance and production for like 40 yrs.  First on cassette then 1st pressing vinyl, later 200gm vinyl (that I nearly wore out playing on my vinyl rig), CD, SACD, Hi Rez download, etc...  Heard this album thousands of times - and never like last night.
  
 I came away floored at the newly revealed detail and clarity.  But what most impressed me was the delicacy, subtle performance nuances, emotional conveyance newly presented.
  
 From the opening soft guitar strumming on 'Where Do The Children Play' it was a joy, some moments really stood out.  The tonal richness and realism of the opening piano on 'Sad Lisa', the nuanced interplay with Cat's emotional vocals - excellent!  On my 5ft tall Maggies he and his piano literally in the room presence.  Then comes the violin!  What a performance.  This string section never sounded so nuanced and intimate.  I gained a new appreciation for this fine production.  The close miking on his brief guitar interludes snapping with each string pluck, this had to be improvised.
  
 The dynamics were superb, as well as the ink jet black background.  This source is so dynamic - it does take some adjustment to, to get the volume set right.  The music seems to just explode out of blackness.  The ability to present this realistic dynamism, meant I had to throttle the vol down at times, so my wife would not come complaining!  Now the Magneplanar are not know for their dynamics or bass extension, but I will say last night they were not sounding like Maggies.  This improvement in dynamics is what I notice the most versus the best I could get from AOIP.
  
 Air and transparency with a clarity and holographic imaging I have not heard to this degree (which the Maggies are known for).  So on it went all night.
  
 On a different level the other stand out recording was Kings of Leon 'Because of The Times'.  The high level of air, space, transparency gave this recording a new presentation.  Caleb Followill vocal inflections now better conveyed again in nuance.  Then the explosive drum strikes of Nathan Followill!  The initial strike impulse wave chest felt, the reverberations recorded with loads of echo, trailing off back deep into the sound field.  All interlaced with Matthew Followill twangy guitar hanging in 3d.  This is some recording and last night was beyond anything I have heard with AOIP, Analog or CD.
  
 The pounding drum strikes and guttural guitar cords on the opening of 'Charmer' showing off the new explosive energy and power now delivered.  Never hashed, congested, limited or clipped - seeming unending of dynamic reserves.  Goosebumps.  I have never heard the Maggies deliver that level and depth of bass.
  
 So that was just a glimpse of what was heard with this new chain, but there are other things that are hard to convey - the emotional connection and the spooky real sound staging and pinpoint imaging, the depth and width of the sound field, the size and point energy delivery of these powerful instruments  - just extraordinary!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## hopkins

rb2013 said:


> No that I have not tried.  But in essence that is what I have now.  With the Startech SPARTAN 6 FPGA in the REX doing the data storage retrieval and conversion.


 
  
 Well generally you would have the reverse setup with the PC interfacing to the DAC with the least tasks (no data retrieval, and minimum data conversion). Granted, the Startech is basically just a hub.
  
 Maybe that is the issue with your previous experience with USB: trying to run everything off a single computer. I think it would be interesting for you to evaluate your current chain against a good quality dual PC setup. There are a lot of great options out there for "player" boards, with the type of optimizations you are attempting: MicroRendu, SOTM SMS-200, and many people playing with single-board computers and various add-on boards (isolation, reclocking, etc...). Not to mention network renderers.
  
 Anyway - glad you are enjoying your current setup.


----------



## wushuliu

goodvibes said:


> This time or last time?




Please stop trolling. You obviously have not read the previous threads and you are missing the point.


----------



## rb2013

Well I want to say that yes the first time I truly felt digital audio whether disk based (CD, SACD, DVD-A) or computer based unquestioningly surpassed my best analog rig was with AOIP, made better with the Mutec MC-3+ USB as SPDIF regenerator and Antelope OCX clock.

 This hybrid USB/Ethernet- USB reprocessing/storage is another revolutionary step ahead.  But that takes nothing away from AOIP - it is great!  And a seachange over almost all other USB digital connections.
  
 As I have said in the past I am completely agnostic - I have no alience to any solution - just trust what my ears tell me.  Because I find this new and I acknowledge crazy USB/Ethernet chain better, does not diminish the excellent SQ of AOIP one bit.
  
 As I posted many times on my AOIP thread - I always felt that the unfortunate use of SMPS in ProAudio gear was a limitation, just as it is in consumer audio gear.  The fact that these $1k+ Pro Audio boxes all come with switch mode power supplies is a drawn back.  Now a few are wising up and at least providing a DC power port - like the new Antelope Live Clock -OCX external wClock.  So the user has the option of buying a separate LPS.
  
 Me and a much more talented DIY friend (well mainly him) modded the BURL B2B Bomber Dante DAC to rid it of the switcher - not an easy job.  And the results were definitely worth it.  Being a died in the wool tube DAC fan - I missed my tube DACs.  Although I have to say the discrete class A opamp design of the B2B was very good.  Just for the money a better tube DAC could be had or built.
  
 So that lead to not totally give up on the USB/Ethernet solution.
  
 Now someone asked if I had a chance to try the Startech/USB stick as storage only with the AOIP gear - I did not.  Having sold everything once the initial results became clear.  I was also expecting a cheaper - externally powered AOIP box to come along.  One did but was still too expensive ($1000) - the Arrakis Simple 8 Digital AES3 XLR:
 http://www.arrakis-systems.com/arrakis---simple-ip.html
  
 Not a standard DC plug (why not?  These ProAudio companies think differently and that is a problem), but at least some kind of cable could be made. 
  
 Worth it?  Don't know


----------



## hopkins

Maybe try cloud storage as well and see if you hear a difference ?


----------



## rb2013

Ok here is the layout.


hopkins said:


> Maybe try cloud storage as well and see if you hear a difference ?


 

 My Music Servers never see the internet!  Not a single crash, blue screen in over 10 yrs of 24/7 running.  The internet is a disaster.


----------



## joelha

First, Rob, congratulations on your be digital discovery. Absolutely fascinating. 

I'm curious, where would the Startech USB device be connected in a chain which included a Rednet D16? I'm probably missing something obvious. 

Thanks for your great work. 

Joel


----------



## rb2013

OK here is the layout:
  
 Back End:

  
  
 1) Singxer F-1
 2) iFi iPur2
 3) Stock Recovery 6in USB cable
 4) W4S Recovery
 5) DC iPur
 6) 2G Split Cable
 7) DC cable from DC-30W LPS (powers the Recovery and F-1)
  
 Front End:
  

  

 1) MEIYAN 24VDC 11uv LPS
 2) Startech REX
 2) Startech LEX
 4) TeraDak X1/X2 LPS (powers LEX by 2G Split USB Cable Power Leg plugged in back)
 5) Jitterbug goes to PC Music Server USB port (modded to USB VBUS blocker)
 6)2G split USB cable - Data Leg
 7) BJC Ethernet CAT6 cable (connects REX and LEX only)
 8)2G Split USB Head
  
 Front End Detail:

 1) USB 256GB PNY Sticks (Three)
 2) Jitterbug goes to USB Data leg to feed Recovery (Modded to VBUS Blocker)
  

 1) 2G USB Head from PC
 2)BJC Ethernet CAT6 (connects REX and LEX only)
 3) Teddy Pardo Silver DC cable (connects to MEIYAN to power REX)
 4)Other end of 2.


----------



## rb2013

joelha said:


> First, Rob, congratulations on your be digital discovery. Absolutely fascinating.
> 
> I'm curious, where would the Startech USB device be connected in a chain which included a Rednet D16? I'm probably missing something obvious.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Joel,
  
 Thanks for the kind words - I knew this thread would be the most challenging of all!
  
 So to your question - there is no Rednet in the equation.  The Startech boxes act as USB packet to IP packet translators (LEX) then IP packet back to USB (REX).  This achieves complete galvanic isolation.  But more I believe the reconstructed USB data stream has vastly improved signal intergrity, complete removal of all PHY USB noise from the PC, better control over USB impedence, the ability to power the 'clean' side of the post Ethernet USB by low noise linear power.  Additionally the ability to do the music file storage conversion in a clean environment, before sending back to the CPU for audio player processing.
  
 But like AOIP Rednet gear can work over GB LAN swtiches in a network.


----------



## joelha

rb2013 said:


> Hi Joel,
> 
> Thanks for the kind words - I knew this thread would be the most challenging of all!
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the quick reply, Rob.
  
 I understood that the Rednet devices weren't part of the original equation.
  
 But I thought in a recent message you mentioned that someone had asked you if it was possible to use the Startech USB storage solution in combination with a Rednet device.
  
 If so, I was just wondering how that would work in terms of what gets connected to what.
  
 But maybe I misunderstood.
  
 Joel


----------



## rb2013

So this would be a good point to reintroduce the Youtube video clip from PS Audio's Paul McGowan - where we all got this Startech (ICRON) idea from.  This was prior to their launching the PS Audio LANRover:
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQjJke5uM2g
  
 They subseqently launched their version of this for $599 http://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/the-lanrover/
  
 Note it has only one USB slot - so could not be used for USB stick storage and playback:

  
 It also uses a ICRON ASIC chip versus the Xilinx SPARTAN 6 FPGA.  And I believe they no long make the FPGA version.  Startech relabled it, but the OEM was ICRON.
  
 This is the new ICRON Ranger with the ASIC chip:
 https://www.icronshop.com/icron-brand/icron-ranger-2304ge-lan
  
 Be careful as their are numerous ICRON made versions and the labeling terminology is quite confusing.


----------



## rb2013

joelha said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, Rob.
> 
> I understood that the Rednet devices weren't part of the original equation.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes that would be possible  - but I did not get to try that.  The Startech would connect by USB to the PC and the Rednet by Ethernet directly to the PC.  So both could work together - the Startech soley for USB storage (and would now have 4 empty USB slots).


----------



## somestranger26

I'm interested in how your chain would compare to the Rednet without Fidelizer, usb sticks, etc. I use my computer for way more than just music, and am not willing to go to such great lengths to optimize the computer's power supply. That was one of the biggest draws of AoIP for me.
  
 I also don't see why the USB stick would sound any better than full file buffering in Foobar (with an SSD). Either way, the file has to be read by the CPU and put into memory.


----------



## joelha

rb2013 said:


> Yes that would be possible  - but I did not get to try that.  The Startech would connect by USB to the PC and the Rednet by Ethernet directly to the PC.  So both could work together - the Startech soley for USB storage (and would now have 4 empty USB slots).


 
 Well, Rob. I was right about one thing. It was obvious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks a lot. I'll be following this thread with a lot of interest.
  
 Did you ever give thought to trying to move the OS drive out of the PC enclosure and somehow place it into a separate connected chain of devices?
  
 Joel


----------



## rb2013

somestranger26 said:


> I'm interested in how your chain would compare to the Rednet without Fidelizer, usb sticks, etc. I use my computer for way more than just music, and am not willing to go to such great lengths to optimize the computer's power supply. That was one of the biggest draws of AoIP for me.
> 
> I also don't see why the USB stick would sound any better than full file buffering in Foobar (with an SSD). Either way, the file has to be read by the CPU and put into memory.


 

 Those are great questions.  When I originally compared the Startech USB Chain (I called the Uber USB chain), (sans Fidel, the MEIYAN, and USB sticks) I preferred the Rednet 3, esp with the Mutec and Antelope.  I found myself after a few months losing interest in the sound.  At the time I was modding the BURL B2B DAC as well.
  
 As I mentioned the AOIP from the Rednet 3 was very good, but I noticed a 'sterile' quality to it.  Now this may just be on my system.  Moving to the BURL was better in the clinical quality of the sound, but worse in terms of tonal density.  Of course a well made tube DAC, esp R2R multi-bit ones, are know for that (especially with the best NOS tubes).  So I started to revisit the Uber USB chain, and I did miss some of what the Rednet AOIP did - especially in the bass department - one of AOIP's greatest strengths.  But I found a closer emotional connection to the music.
  
 At this level of audio - things get complicated.  The difference between better and different.  Or even more complicated some things gained and others lost.
  
 The MEIYAN did make a difference on the REX.  But also a few other tweeks - like removing the Curious 200mm cable between the Recovery and the iPur2:


 Crazy as it may sound I much preferred the stock Recovery cable.
  
 Also replacing the Forza Audio split copper USB cable on the PC side (Front end) with a LH Labs 2G also improved things, now the USB Uber was getting closer.  And the emotional connection was there!  In spades.  I attribute this to greater tonal density.

 Then came the Shazam (great Andriod app btw) moment!  The use of these USB sticks - esp the PNY 256GB ones.  Whoa!  Dynamics just over the top - but they needed burnin.  And after 100hrs got even better.  Now the USB Uber chain had leaped over the best of AOIP - and became the Ultra USB chain. 
  
 Bass as good or better then AOIP.  Dynamics incomparable, air, transparency, detail at a whole other level.
  
 Fidelizer and the replacing of the Music Server HDD with a SDD (best $39 investment ever) - just put this whole source way past the old.
  
 But I really wanted to be sure, to live with this new sound for awhile - the more I listened the more impressed I became.  I found myself saying repeatedly - I NEVER heard that before - even with the Rednet/Mutec/Antelope AOIP stack.  I have to sum it up - as revelatory.  It has changed the way I listen to music - which I found impossible to believe.  But what a ridiculous chain!  I tried to simplify it  - no go - every attempt diminished the magic.  My last 'experiment' was to try and replace the Recovery/DC iPur/TeraDak DC-30S with a RCore LT3042 (.8uv near sota) LPS.  It was good - but not as good as before.
  
 So that's where I'm at now - and will gladly remain here for quite some time.  The reward from this insane 2 year quest is gold - sonic gold - and despite all the trial and error well worth it.  I don't recommend anyone else remotely attempt this.  But I had to share it.  Like I said before I would characterize this as one of the greatest audio advancements I have heard in 30 yrs.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

joelha said:


> Well, Rob. I was right about one thing. It was obvious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Good suggestion  but no.  I did toy with the idea of running the OS from one of the sticks...hmmm  Don't get me started!
  
 Ok a couple of things that could be explored:
  
 1) Different USB sticks (once the price of the 512GB come down I will upgade the three and double my storage)  I paid a total of $120 for all three PNY sticks at Bestbuy.
 2)F-1 mods - remove the DCtoDC MornSun converter and power the 5VDC and 3.3VDC with separate LPS.  This was discussed near the end of the now closed XU208 thread.
 3)Try a different DDC like the XU216 DIYinHK Pro3z.
 4) Additional Ethernet GI isolation - like a GISO or FMC inbetween - maybe even a Corning optical Ethernet cable
 5)Marcel at JCAT has offered to send me the new JCAT USB Card FEMTO. Not sure how this would help but...
 http://jplay.eu/jcat/
 6)Super Secret - a new Super USB gizmo is in the works.  Can't divulge details but it sounds like it would be terrific.
 7)Well if the Lotto numbers come in a Uptone JS-2 LPS to feed the REX and LEX and a LPS-1 to feed the F-1.  When's the next drawing?
  
 But really I'm good for now - totally happy place.


----------



## somestranger26

rb2013 said:


> 4) Additional Ethernet GI isolation - like a GISO or FMC inbetween - maybe even a Corning optical Ethernet cable


 
 They have a more expensive USB extender that uses fiber 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 http://www.icron.com/products/icron-brand/usb-extenders/fiber/usb-3-0-spectra-3022/


----------



## rb2013

somestranger26 said:


> They have a more expensive USB extender that uses fiber :evil: http://www.icron.com/products/icron-brand/usb-extenders/fiber/usb-3-0-spectra-3022/


Hurt me baby, make me write bad checks. One other upgrade would be to use those marvelous Cerious Tech Graphene power cords on the three separate LPS's. I did that, well at two on the Rednet/Mutec/Antelope AOIP stack. But at $250 each that's a lot of dash - $750. Might as well spend a bit extra and get a $1000 JS-2 LPS.

I guess one could also try a Mutec MC-3+ USB as a SPDIF reclocker, maybe add a 10Mhz Rubidium clock on it as ext wClock. I did try the new iFi SPDIF reclocker. Not good, esp powered by a SMPS iPower.

I would note SPDIF coax cables are critical for best results. I tried a few, the Audio Sensibilities Silver Statement 1.5M digital RCA, the Audience au24Se digital RCA 1M, and the Synergistic Research Element Copper 1M digital RCA with the new UEF tuning plugs, and the upgraded Galileo MPC active shield energizer.

The SR was by far the best, actuallt the Audience was very good too - both excelled over the AS Statement. No slouch of a digital cord (I have listed for sale in the classifieds). I got the SR as a demo from a dealer on Audiogon for a crazy good price.

It was also my favorite on the AOIP stack, but the differences here on tnis USB chain were much more noticeable. Esp the tonal richness, clarity and transparency.


----------



## Coilfield

Many thanks to Rob2013.  I have followed all your posts with great enthusiasm.  Time to say thanks for all your work.
 I use a Gustard U12 and Lite dac 60.
 I look forward to full upgrades to the Lite dac.  I've read your forum at least 3 times.
 I've taken to heart your recommendations on sensitive digital isolation.  I just upgraded to 3 separate digital ps filters and OCC power cords.
 This is what is on my radar. It's an SD card player.
 I'd be interested in your opinion?
  
 https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/aune-x5s-24bit-192k-hifi-dsd-asynchronous-ditital-player.html
  
 I currently use Server 2012 with 15 processes running.
 Thanks for the great lay out pics.  This makes it much easier to understand.
  
 Cheers and a Merry Christmas to you,
 Frank


----------



## Paulkouhan

Hi Bob,
  
 Thanks for sharing your experiments and findings.
 I wish I had more time to do my own experiments...
  
 I have some questions about your ratings of the Singxer :
 1)
 Is the main difference between
 Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2    145
 and
 Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2/Startech GB LAN Iso USB   170
 that the music is stored on isolated usb flash drives (instead of HDD)
 The Startech is out of budget for me, did you try using your flash drives with a powered USB hub (data USB cable from the computer only)
  
 Did you try an USB galvanic Isolator like this one ?
 http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/en/product/1165503/?insert=62&insertNoDeeplink&productname=CESYS-Cesys
  

 2) What are the differences between
 Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2/Startech GB LAN Iso USB   170
 and
 Ultra USB chain (details to long to list)      370
  
  
 SSD drive + cables + ... ?
  
 I want to try to get the best from my NUC+ssd+LPS / Recovery + LPS / iPur2 / Singxer. My next try will be the USB flash drive. ( I dont believe in cables ...)
   
  
 


 Cheers
  
 David


----------



## rb2013

somestranger26 said:


> I also don't see why the USB stick would sound any better than full file buffering in Foobar (with an SSD). Either way, the file has to be read by the CPU and put into memory.


 
 In my reply I didn't answer this part your question - so see below.
  


coilfield said:


> Many thanks to Rob2013.  I have followed all your posts with great enthusiasm.  Time to say thanks for all your work.
> I use a Gustard U12 and Lite dac 60.
> I look forward to full upgrades to the Lite dac.  I've read your forum at least 3 times.
> I've taken to heart your recommendations on sensitive digital isolation.  I just upgraded to 3 separate digital ps filters and OCC power cords.
> ...


 
 Hi Frank - Thanks for the Kudos!  Good luck on the DAC60 project - you where lucky to get one.  They are almost impossible to find now.  I wonder about the Startech GB LAN USB Ethernet extenders as well - the ones with the SPARTAN 6 FPGA.  As it looks like ICRON has moved away to their custom ASIC (to lower the costs).  I guess the SPARTAN 6 has greater processing power.  But more jitter?  Maybe the ASIC version is even better?  Doubt it.
  
 The SD card player is interesting  but I have a couple of issues:
  
 1) As I understand it USB Flash drives (sticks) are unique in that they have on board 3.3VDC regulators
 2) Storage limitation to just one card.  Just a 500GB PNY SD card costs $200.  I paid $120 for all three 256GB USB sticks for a total of 750GB of storage.
 3) Storage flexibility - Each 256GB USB stick has it's own drive letter and in Windows acts as any normal SSD/HDD drive/partition.  But you can ALSO have additional SSD or HDD in the server - totally flexible.
 4) Limitation on the 'Back End' of the chain - that is you only have the choice of analog output (with lower SQ opamps), or SPDIF coax/optical/AES digital output.  Where as with the Startech/ICRON USB/Ethernet IP solution - your choice of DDC is wide open - and can continue to be upgraded down the road. This a real deal killer for me.
  
 On the Plus side - lower cost and less in the chain - although a separate LPS box would likely still be needed for better SQ.
  
 OK so why may USB Flash Drives be the optimal solid state storage medium?
  
 I posted this at the opening of this thread - from a CA thread:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> > Someone over on this CA thread mentioned that USB sticks sound better then SSD or HDD:
> ...


 
 I now wonder if a better USB stick for audiophile use could be made or modded - one with a etter lower noise 3.3VDC regulator?
  
  
 Someone had mentioned to me that the slower speed of USB 2.0 vs SATA III may actually be a benefit to the SQ.  Less chance of overloading the memory buffer as the CPU processes the incoming music file data stream in the audio player.
  
 I don't know about that - but certainly having the critical conversion operation from solid state storage to a active USB data stream done in a 'clean' environment away from the CPU and it's inherent RFI/EMI, ground plane noise, etc... Can't hurt.  Especially since the USB sticks are now powered by very low noise LPS.


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experiments and findings.
> I wish I had more time to do my own experiments...
> ...


 
 Hi David - again thanks for the kind words.
  

 Well the difference in your question #1 had nothing to do with the USB sticks - that discovery came much later.  I have not tried a generic USB hub for storage - maybe powered by a LPS.  That would be a good experiment.  But would not have the benefit of the Startech USB/Ethenet galvanic isolation nor what I believe to be an inherent advantage to the USB packet to IP packet translations.
  
 I have not tried the intona or any other USB GI isolator.  I won't go into my criticisms of the Intona in detail here  - I posted a great deal on the Gustard U12 thread (mainly the low quality SI Time CMEMS clocks used).  It is not easy to make a true USB GI that can reliably handle the High Speed throughput for Hi Res.  But really have no need to with the Startech providing this with inherent UTP CAT cabling.  I will note I did try using a SMFC in between to very little effect -and in fact needed to power the two boxes with a pr of LPS's to not degrade the SQ.
  
 I also tried a variety of CAT5e and CAT6 UTP cables - the best being the Blue Jean Cable CAT6 550Mhz.  Very reasonable cost.
  
 As for your second question - the evolution of the '170' chain to the '370' chain is described in detail in post #54. 
  
 The changes were more then just the addition of the USB sticks, it did include the changes in some of the cables.  But also the use of Fidelizer Pro - now on my AOIP thread a few folks who had liked what FP did for their USB chain - found it had little benefit when using the Dante Rednet AOIP solution.  So I kind of ignored it.  Not smart - I should have at least given the free one a try.  Anyway, once I moved back to focusing on the USB chain - I thought what the heck.  Everything was running smoothly and reliably.  Well it made a very significant difference!  Increase in detail and even greater dynamics. I was a bit worried with the music files having to be read over the USB/Ethernet connection - then the processed music data stream back again - how Fidelizer Pro would possibly create problems.  Not a worry.  I will say the increase in musical intensity was almost too much at the 'Purist' setting, so I had set it to 'Audiophile' for a while.
  
 I had moved the OS over to a PNY 128GB SSD from a HDD (to go completely spinnerless) right before installing FPro.  This way I could always default back to my HDD, if issues would come up that could not be fixed.  I mean what FPro does is very extensive.  Anyway I think the PNY SSD needed a 100 hours to settle in - it did improve the SQ right out of the box - but the sound had gained a brightness - with FPro 'Purist'.  That totally went away - and I was able to benefit from the more intense 'Purist' setting again with near perfect tonal balance.
  
 Important note:  The big leap in the rankings from '170' for the Uber USB chain to the best of AOIP Rednet/Muted/Antelope at 270 was a greater amount of detail, smoothness and deeper bass.  But as I said before, after a few months a loss of some emotional connection.  Hard to really put into words, and may just be my perception so YMMV, I would lose interest in the music after a short period.  It reminds me of my 'Krell' days  - oh God could those massive Krell amps just shake the rafters and where very impressive at the start - but I would lose that emotional conection.  This was at the very start of my serious audio journey.   Then I discovered Harry Pearson and 'The Absolute Sound'  back when it took no advertising (it's a POS now). Harry espoused the sonic and emotive quality of analog and most important TUBE gear.  Out went the big Krells (with the help of a forklift) and in came a very long series of tube amps and pre-amps.

  
  
 So I equate this experience to that - AOIP (solid state amps) to Ultra USB (tube amps).  Now many tube amps had major flaws!  Bass was flabby and weak - but the midrange tonality was fantastic. 

  

  
  

  
 That lead to trying to solve this equation.  Fast forward 15yr later I landed at the tube Hybrid integrated solution.  Class A solid state for the output section, Class A true tube in the pre-amp section.  Viola! Deep tight bass with thunderous extension and that mid-range magic!  Better treble extension as well.
  
 I equate this Ultra USB chain as the solving of this AOIP vs USB equation in a similar fashion.  A Hybrid of USB and Ethernet IP.
  
 Sorry for the long story but I'm trying to condense 30 yrs of very intense audio experience into a few paragraphs.  My handle on Audiogon is Rb99 and I have over 200 transactions - much amp, pre-amp, cable, speaker rolling.


----------



## rb2013

One note on my subjective rankings - this is all qualitative based.  So a sea change leap in perceived SQ is given a big 'score' increase.  Minor improvements are allotted minor 'score' changes.  Is the Ultra USB chain 370% better then a Breeze DU-U8?  Well it all depends on how you value sound improvements.  I have a slightly modded Breeze DU-U8 running right now in m y office system - sounds very good.  For background Classical Baroque while I work - it serves it's purpose.
  
 But for serious night time listening - I would say the 370% might be an underestimate.  So fundamental, the SQ change and improvement, and my enjoyment.
  
 So it's all subject folks.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## PCWar

To say the truth the AOIP dante solution has killed even my slightest desire to upgrade anything in my system. I don't see how one can loose interest after that especially considering that musicality was the biggest improvement over the F1U.

Maybe on head-fi it's really difficult to stick with something and upgrading/sidegrading or just changing something down the road is sometimes a higher joy than the very music listening per se.


----------



## rb2013

Interesting - note the on board 12 Mhz crystal ocsillator:
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_flash_drive
  


1USB Standard-A, "male" plug2USB mass storage controller device3Test point4Flash memory chip5Crystal oscillator6LED (Optional)7Write-protect switch (Optional)8Space for second flash memory chip
   
Technology 
    ​​


_Main articles: Flash memory and USB_

Flash memory combines a number of older technologies, with lower cost, lower power consumption and small size made possible by advances in microprocessortechnology. The memory storage was based on earlier EPROM and EEPROMtechnologies. These had limited capacity, were slow for both reading and writing, required complex high-voltage drive circuitry, and could be re-written only after erasing the entire contents of the chip.

 

Hardware designers later developed EEPROMs with the erasure region broken up into smaller "fields" that could be erased individually without affecting the others. Altering the contents of a particular memory location involved copying the entire field into an off-chip buffer memory, erasing the field, modifying the data as required in the buffer, and re-writing it into the same field. This required considerable computer support, and PC-based EEPROM flash memory systems often carried their own dedicated microprocessor system. Flash drives are more or less a miniaturized version of this.

The development of high-speed serial data interfaces such as USB made semiconductor memory systems with serially accessed storage viable, and the simultaneous development of small, high-speed, low-power microprocessor systems allowed this to be incorporated into extremely compact systems. Serial access requires far fewer electrical connections for the memory chips than does parallel access, which has simplified the manufacture of multi-gigabytedrives.

 

Essential components  

 The internal mechanical and electronic parts of a Kingston 2 GB flash drive​​


There are typically five parts to a flash drive:


Standard-A USB plug – provides a physical interface to the host computer.
USB mass storage controller – a small microcontroller with a small amount of on-chip ROM andRAM.
NAND flash memory chip(s) – stores data (NAND flash is typically also used in digital cameras).
Crystal oscillator – produces the device's main 12 MHz clock signal and controls the device's data output through a phase-locked loop.
Cover – typically made of plastic or metal, protecting the electronics against mechanical stress and even possible short circuits.

  
  
File system[edit] _Main article: Flash file system_

Most flash drives ship preformatted with the FAT32, or exFAT file systems. The ubiquity of the FAT32 file system allows the drive to be accessed on virtually any host device with USB support. Also, standard FAT maintenance utilities (e.g., ScanDisk) can be used to repair or retrieve corrupted data. However, because a flash drive appears as a USB-connected hard drive to the host system, the drive can bereformatted to any file system supported by the host operating system.

 Defragmenting

 Flash drives can be defragmented. There is a widespread opinion that defragmenting brings little advantage (as there is no mechanical head that moves from fragment to fragment), and that defragmenting shortens the life of the drive by making many unnecessary writes.[47] However, some sources claim[48] that defragmenting a flash drive can improve performance (mostly due to improved caching of the clustered data), and the additional wear on flash drives may not be significant.

 Even distribution

 Some file systems are designed to distribute usage over an entire memory device without concentrating usage on any part (e.g., for a directory) to prolong the life of simple flash memory devices. Some USB flash drives have this 'wear leveling' feature built into the software controller to prolong device life, while others do not, so it is not necessarily helpful to install one of these file systems.[49]

 Hard disk drive

 Sectors are 512 bytes long, for compatibility with hard disk drives, and the first sector can contain a master boot record and a partition table. Therefore, USB flash units can be partitioned just like hard disk drives.

Longevity[edit] The memory in flash drives is commonly engineered with multi-level cell (MLC) based memory that is good for around 3,000-5,000 program-erase cycles,[50] but some flash drives have single-level cell (SLC) based memory that is good for around 100,000 writes. There is virtually no limit to the number of reads from such flash memory, so a well-worn USB drive may be write-protected to help ensure the life of individual cells.

Estimation of flash memory endurance is a challenging subject that depends on the SLC/MLC/TLC memory type, size of the flash memory chips, and actual usage pattern. As a result, a USB flash drive can last from a few days to several hundred years.[51]

Regardless of the endurance of the memory itself, the USB connector hardware is specified to withstand only around 1,500 insert-removal cycles.[52]

Counterfeit products Counterfeit USB flash drives are sometimes sold with claims of having higher capacities than they actually have. These are typically low capacity USB drives which are modified so that they emulate larger capacity drives (for example, a 2 GB drive being marketed as a 64 GB drive). When plugged into a computer, they report themselves as being the larger capacity they were sold as, but when data is written to them, either the write fails, the drive freezes up, or it overwrites existing data. Software tools exist to check and detect fake USB drives,[53][54] and in some cases it is possible to repair these devices to remove the false capacity information and use them normally, as the low-capacity drives they are.[55][56


----------



## rb2013

pcwar said:


> To say the truth the AOIP dante solution has killed even my slightest desire to upgrade anything in my system. I don't see how one can loose interest after that especially considering that musicality was the biggest improvement over the F1U.
> 
> Maybe on head-fi it's really difficult to stick with something and upgrading/sidegrading or just changing something down the road is sometimes a higher joy than the very music listening per se.


 

 I hear what you are saying - and I take nothing away from AOIP.  I will say this is no 'sidegrading' - in fact I have to say it's a sea change upgrade.  One of the greatest in my 30 yrs of audio.
  
 I'm completely satisfied here - I've got my 'game over' solution.  But as I said I'm not recommending anyone else duplicate this - or follow this path.  If AOIP is doing it for you - awesome you have found your 'game over' solution.  I just have to honestly write about this and what I'm experiencing.  To not share this would be a travesty.  But it's just my journey.
  
 Last night digging through my back collection - I went to another old standby - one I know so well from my vinyl days.  Fleetwood Mac the 1975 self-titled album.  How many times I have I heard this - countless.
  
 And again last night is was a revelation - it sounded different - better in so many ways.
 Most notable the richer tonal presentation, but with detail, not woolly or eurphonic - and the instrument separation.  Bass depth on 'I'm So Afraid' was stupendous!  I could hear the tympani like strikes of Mick's power drumming.  Hearing the drum stick strike and resonate the drum skin.  Conveying the tactical impression of a real drum.
  
 On 'Landside' the warm smooth melodic guitar so holographically presented - the emotion in Nicks' vocals.  Again nuanced, delicate, subtle inflections.  The overlayed second acoustic guitar harmonies, and Buckingham's graceful brief electrical interludes.  Oh Man!   This is what I came to hear.  Beautiful production.  No wonder this was such a super album. 
  
 Finally after 30+yrs of hearing this, I have a new appreciation of the recording genius that went into making this album.  I have seen them live, I have all their live DVD's - they're fun - but none hold a candle to the way this was recorded and produced.
  
 But then listened to the 'Mystery to Me' album.  Crude in comparison - but still a revelation.  Again this an album I have heard 1000's of times.  You can see the genius beginning to shine through in  'Hypnotized' and 'For Your Love'.  Like I have never heard them before.  And this from Redbook WAV files!  No Hi Res download.
  
 It had me thinking of mathematician Shannon's information theory, the basis for the the Nyquist theory behind Philips and Sony Engineers coming up with the Redbook 16 bit/44.1K std.  There is just so much buried deep in there - tough to get to for sure.  But it's there!  That's another revelation.
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist–Shannon_sampling_theorem


----------



## PCWar

That's great to hear. I'm happy for you too that you rediscovered your music especially after all the effort and money you put on your journey.


----------



## Albrecht

rb2013 said:


> Ok here is the layout.
> 
> My Music Servers never see the internet!  Not a single crash, blue screen in over 10 yrs of 24/7 running.  The internet is a disaster.


 

 +1
  
 disaster is likely understating things a bit.....


----------



## Albrecht

> TeraDak X1/X2 LPS (powers LEX by 2G Split USB Cable Power Leg plugged in back)


 
 so cool.....
  
 Just curious if your wife is like my GF: completely unwilling to get anywhere near the audio rack unless it's to sit with you and listen? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I regularly get asked, "how do I turn on the TV?"
  
 Awesome that you're using the TeraDak with the LEX. That surprised me, (I remember now you mentioning it before). So, - adding in the USB splitter, TeraDak, LEX & powering the LEX causes no issues? I assume that you've tried NOT powering the LEX and just using the USB power from the PC?
  
 Also surprised by the number of isolation units in place, that's 3, correct? Since you like the iFi units so much, - I am going to have to try plugging 1 into my chain...
  
 Also, - have you thought about maybe trying an EMO EN30 in between at the REX?
  
 Thanks so much for all of the pics, it's so great to get a pictorial representation of the chain....


----------



## Albrecht

> would note SPDIF coax cables are critical for best results. I tried a few, the Audio Sensibilities Silver Statement 1.5M digital RCA, the Audience au24Se digital RCA 1M, and the Synergistic Research Element Copper 1M digital RCA with the new UEF tuning plugs, and the upgraded Galileo MPC active shield energizer.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 Excellent and Thank you again RB. So appreciate how you go out of your way to point out what you have done, with your system, & what works best for you, & why it's not necessarily what's right for others. We all have unique paths, and funds are not the only limiting factor. Where I'm going here is that you make a point of stressing what RCA digital COAX cables work best with your system, and your APL. Like me, - it seems like someone would have to pry the APL from your cold, dead, fingers. This means that there's a whole aspect to this chain that will not be utilized by others. I have experienced dramatic disparities in sound by the choice of USB to SPDIF converters, digital cables etc. My Merlins do not like SILVER digital cables coming out of the APL. But using the "right" silver digital COAX cable & right USB to SPDIF converter coming in, doesn't bother the APL. Same with power supplies feeding the end of the digital chain, some power supplies increase low level detail, but they "thin out" midrange "bloom." Many folks may not be running SPDIF at all, and could be using USB direct into their DAC, perhaps running DSD, - something that folks like us, who have Universal players, cannot do.
  
 Cheers,


----------



## Mr Underhill

*Hi Bob,*
  
 I am going to try a variation on your chain.
  
 Currently:
 NAS (CAT7) > EMO-70-HD > CAT7 > (LMS) microRendu (USB) > VBUS2 > AQ JB > Audio Breeze DU-U8 (AES) > Mutec3+USB (AES) > Bel Canto 3.5vb
  
 To:
 Startech(USB) > NAS (CAT7) > EMO-70-HD > CAT7 > (LMS) microRendu (USB) > VBUS2 > AQ JB > Singxer-F1 (spdif) > Mutec3+USB (AES) > Bel Canto 3.5vb
  
  
 Depending on how this goes then I'll think about setting up a Windows VM with Fidelizer and have a play.
  
 I'll let you know hoe it goes.
  
*M*


----------



## rb2013

pcwar said:


> That's great to hear. I'm happy for you too that you rediscovered your music especially after all the effort and money you put on your journey.


 
 Thanks  I'd call it a re-experiencing of my music rather then a rediscovery.  This has happened a few times over my 30yrs of Audiophildom.

 This one ranks near the very top - others were the move to the totl Dynavector XV1-S moving coil cartridge from a very good moving magnet.  Another going from the SS Krells to the ASL Hurricane tube amps.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

albrecht said:


> +1
> 
> disaster is likely understating things a bit.....


 
 It's all those pushed updates - many updates can create havoc with other applications.
  


albrecht said:


> so cool.....
> 
> Just curious if your wife is like my GF: completely unwilling to get anywhere near the audio rack unless it's to sit with you and listen?
> 
> ...


 
 My wife used to be a big music fan - we'd go to concerts all the time.  The last one was Citizen Cope at the Seattle Showbox (great venue!).  Not so much anymore.  So not side by side listening - movies are our thing.
  
 No issues on the LEX - it runs on +5VDC off the USB head.  Yes the PC power was not good.  An interesting alternative would be something like a Paul Pang V2  or V3 or the new JCAT USB card - powering ti externally with a LPS. But that does increase the cost.
  
 I love the iPur2 and DC iPur.  Not a big fan of the iPowers or the new SPDIF reclocker.  I have found isolation really important - and the PB4X4Pro's are only $80 each.  May not need three now - it did make a difference with the Rednet/Mutec/Antelope - all with SMPS.  A LPS will still feed some noise back in the AC mains - but a fraction of a switcher.
  
 No on the EN-30 - but did try a Baaske MI 1005 Medical Ethernet Isolator - not good.  I hear the *ACOUSENCE – GISO GB *is the way to go - but very expensive.
  


albrecht said:


> Hi,
> 
> Excellent and Thank you again RB. So appreciate how you go out of your way to point out what you have done, with your system, & what works best for you, & why it's not necessarily what's right for others. We all have unique paths, and funds are not the only limiting factor. Where I'm going here is that you make a point of stressing what RCA digital COAX cables work best with your system, and your APL. Like me, - it seems like someone would have to pry the APL from your cold, dead, fingers. This means that there's a whole aspect to this chain that will not be utilized by others. I have experienced dramatic disparities in sound by the choice of USB to SPDIF converters, digital cables etc. My Merlins do not like SILVER digital cables coming out of the APL. But using the "right" silver digital COAX cable & right USB to SPDIF converter coming in, doesn't bother the APL. Same with power supplies feeding the end of the digital chain, some power supplies increase low level detail, but they "thin out" midrange "bloom." Many folks may not be running SPDIF at all, and could be using USB direct into their DAC, perhaps running DSD, - something that folks like us, who have Universal players, cannot do.
> 
> Cheers,


 
 Thanks for the kind words.  Believe it or not, my main DAC is my modded R2R DAC60 -it better the wonderful APL in everyway.  But especially in tonal richness and clarity.  Hard to beat a well designed PCM1704 with a D-S chip.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/740362/lite-dac60-pcm1704-r2r-tubed-dac-mod-project
  
 But both are SPDIF RCA only - so that is what I go with.  And SPDIF cables DO make a difference - wish it weren't so.  The F-1 does have the option of i2s for those who can use that.  From my past Gustard U12 and XU208 threads most who have DAC's with internal USB - much preferred the better external DDC's.  The Yggie and Gumby come to mind.  Even with the Gen 3 USB board.  There are techincal reasons for this - relating to USB AGC circuits modulating on varying signal integrity - causing noise pollution on the DAC ground plane.  These femto clocks - the basis of digital audio are hyper sensitive to this kind of noise.  I post much on the XU208 thread about this.  For more info read John Swenson's discussion on this:
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-2-are-bits-just-bits#f889ODJPzfD4sAZA.97
  
 Cheers Mate!


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> *Hi Bob,*
> 
> I am going to try a variation on your chain.
> 
> ...


 

 That looks interesting.  Be sure to stay with a CAT6 UTP cable in between the REX and LEX on the Startech to preserve GI.
  
 Mutec 3+ USB as SPDIF/AES reclocker - nice!
  
 You can try the JB's and see - I modded mine to block the +5VDC VBUS from leaving the unit.  But that requires clipping the out going USB A female 1 & 4 leads.
  
  

  

  
  
 Good Luck!


----------



## lazz

Rb, do you know much about these devices. Which one would be the one to try?
 https://www.computercablestore.com/Fast-Ethernet-Media-Converters-577


----------



## Paulkouhan

Hi Bob,
  
 I use "Daphile" to play music.
 It is a linux based very basic OS optimised for playing music.
 With it you can "shut down" every part of your computer that you dont need to play music.
  
 it is probably interesting to minimise the cpu load.
  
 You can install it on a USB drive for testing (bios : boot on usb device).
  
 It would be interesting if you can test it and compare it to windows / Fidelizer ... (with the same USB ultra chain)
  
 https://www.daphile.com/#overview
  
 installation guide :
 https://www.daphile.com/download/DaphileInstallation.pdf
  
  
 In my system it is better than foobar.
  
 David


----------



## rb2013

lazz said:


> Rb, do you know much about these devices. Which one would be the one to try?
> https://www.computercablestore.com/Fast-Ethernet-Media-Converters-577


 

 Not familiar with them.  The Startech/ICRON are of course completely different.
  
 These are the SMFC boxes I tried between the REX and LEX Startech boxes - to little good effect.  Sold them.
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003CFATKQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> I use "Daphile" to play music.
> It is a linux based very basic OS optimised for playing music.
> ...


 

 That is somewhat interesting.  But not even remotely interested in a Linux solution or other players.  I like Foobar2K very much and countless hours/days/weeks spent learning it inside out (along with some very cool DSP's like SoX and the DSD converter).  Not to mention the 60-70 custom playlists - custom screen layout, etc...
  
 WIN10/FB2K with Fidelizer Pro on a dedicated iCore 7 music server is doing just great.


----------



## rb2013

rb2013 said:


> Interesting - note the on board 12 Mhz crystal ocsillator:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_flash_drive
> 
> ...


 
 I find this really fascinating - so every USB stick contains a PLL'd  12Mhz Crystal Oscillator clock and a dedicated microcontroller WITH on board ROM and RAM!
  
 It is literally a small computer on the chip.  This is why it needs a 3.3VDC regulator.
  


> The development of high-speed serial data interfaces such as USB made semiconductor memory systems with serially accessed storage viable, and *the simultaneous development of small, high-speed, low-power microprocessor systems allowed this to be incorporated into extremely compact systems. *Serial access requires far fewer electrical connections for the memory chips than does parallel access, which has simplified the manufacture of multi-gigabytedrives.


 
  
 So I wonder if modding one of these with a better clock (lower phase noise), and better LDO regulator would have any positive effect on SQ?  Maybe down the road after the 512GB or 1TB ones come way down in price.
  
 Also very cool there are real (not counterfeit) 2TB ones coming.  Three of these would provide 6TB of storage - that should cover just about any music collection.
  
 Now USB Flash drives are quite a bit different then SD cards - although they all use NAND flash memory chips.
  
 For one SD Cards do not have on board clocks, they also can not be used solely as a boot drive on Windows based PC's without a USB controller interface:

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#Micro


> SD cards and host devices initially communicate through a synchronous one-bit interface, where the host device provides a clock signal that strobes single bits in and out of the SD card. The host device thereby sends 48-bit commands and receives responses. The card can signal that a response will be delayed, but the host device can abort the dialogue.


 
  


> Although many personal computers accommodate SD cards as an auxiliary storage device through a built-in slot or a USB adaptor, SD cards cannot be used as the primary hard disk through the onboard ATA controller because none of the SD card variants support ATA signalling. This use requires a separate SD controller chip[89] or an SD-to-CompactFlash converter. However, on computers that support bootstrapping from a USB interface, an SD card in a USB adaptor can be the primary hard disk, provided it contains an operating system that supports USB access once the bootstrap is complete.


 


> Transfer modes Cards may support various combinations of the following bus types and transfer modes. The SPI bus mode and one-bit SD bus mode are mandatory for all SD families, as explained in the next section. Once the host device and the SD card negotiate a bus interface mode, the usage of the numbered pins is the same for all card sizes.
> 
> 
> *SPI bus mode:* Serial Peripheral Interface Bus is primarily used by embedded microcontrollers. This bus type supports only a 3.3-volt interface. This is the only bus type that does not require a host license.
> ...


 
  
  
 As for SSD drives:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive

  

  
 They do have powerful microprocessors and Crystal clocks.


> Every SSD includes a controller that incorporates the electronics that bridge the NAND memory components to the host computer. The controller is an embedded processor that executes firmware-level code and is one of the most important factors of SSD performance.[37] Some of the functions performed by the controller include:[38][39]
> 
> 
> Bad block mapping
> ...


 


> Apart from associated connectors, the host interface is not physically a component of the SSD, but it is a key part of the drive. The interface is usually incorporated into the above-discussed controller, and is many times one of the interfaces found in HDDs. They include:
> 
> 
> Serial attached SCSI (SAS, > 3.0 Gbit/s) – generally found on servers
> ...


 
 My thought was to try a USB interfacing SSD in lieu of a USB Flashdrive - plugged into one of the empty USB slots on the REX.  But the apparent slower speed of the USB SSD interface kind of discouraged me - 1.5Mbit/s versus 480 Mbit/s for a USB 2.0 stick.  USB 3.0 increases that to 5Gbit/s - but the Startech REX only supports up to USB 2.0 High Speed. Of course the SATA SSD interface used in a PC is  greater then USB 2.0 flash drives.
  
 But the idea is to keep the storage conversion outside the PC and retain the other benefits of the USB to Ethernet TCPIP translation.


----------



## rb2013

The uniqueness of the USB flashdirve for audio is found in this quote:
  


> Many low-cost MP3 players simply add extra software and a battery to a standard flash memory control microprocessor so it can also serve as a music playback decoder. Most of these players can also be used as a conventional flash drive, for storing files of any type.


----------



## rb2013

Another issue with SD Cards is they can be corrupted quite easily - as happened to me recently with a 128GB Sandisk in my LG G4 android phone.  The micro SD card could not be reformated as much as I tried.
  
 From wiki:


> Risks of reformatting Reformatting an SD card with a different file system, or even with the same one, may make the card slower, or shorten its lifespan. Some cards use wear leveling, in which frequently modified blocks are mapped to different portions of memory at different times, and some wear-leveling algorithms are designed for the access patterns typical of FAT12, FAT16 or FAT32.[100] In addition, the preformatted file system may use a cluster size that matches the erase region of the physical memory on the card; reformatting may change the cluster size and make writes less efficient.
> 
> SD/SDHC/SDXC memory cards have a "Protected Area" on the card for the SD standard's security function; a standard formatter may erase it, causing problems if security is used. The SD Association provides freely-downloadable SD Formatter software to overcome these problems for Windows and Mac OS X.[101] The SD Formatter does not format the "Protected Area", and the Association recommends the use of appropriate application software or SD-compatible device that provides SD security function to format the "Protected Area" in the memory card.


 
 I have reformatted USB flashdrives without issue many times.
  
 Another difference between SD cards and USB sticks is the speed - to get the 35MB/s speeds in a SD card you need a class UHS 3 card.:  These are quite expensive vs an equivalent USB stick.  Like this Lexar 256GB class 10/UHS3 for $125
 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1090741&gclid=CPnX5ZTqitECFQeUfgodbhMPug&Q=&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677682%2C&is=REG&A=details


> By 2003, most USB flash drives had USB 2.0 connectivity, which has 480 Mbit/s as the transfer rate upper bound; after accounting for the protocol overhead that translates to a 35 MB/s effective throughput


 


> 10 MB/s
> 
> Class 10 (C10)
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 One other thing to note - and this may lead to SQ difference in USB sticks, SSD drives and SD cards - is the different 'wear leveling' algorithm employed.  This will fundamentally effect the way data is written and read by the device.  Best to load music files sequentially - and not erase and write over too many times.  Device defragging is highly recommended if that has been done frequently.
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wear_leveling


----------



## Albrecht

> my main DAC is my modded R2R DAC60


 
  
 Oh right..... I totally forgot about that. I am going read up more on your DAC project: Thanks for reposting the link.
  
 Experimenting with the 2 iFi's and the RUR has inspired me to play a little more. I still want to buy a Cardas link AC cable feeding the microRendu from the Uptone LPS-1.
  
 On the basis of my much more limited experimentation, (especially yours), USB isolation, & USB bus noise reduction has several options & combinations. These first products that came out from the "high-end-audio" side, Regen, RUR, etc. have done a lot to "prove" just how crappy the USB bus is, and how important it is to "fix." Swenson had a lot of things to say about this that have proven "true" in my experience/mind. Of course the Startech/Icron/USB extenders have been around awhile and have breathed new life into the use of a multi-function computer for superior quality playback: as has already been discussed, both for Galvanic Isolation, - and getting the computer's noisy SMPS far away from the audio rack. Some folks might regard your use of two Ifi's and an RUR as "overkill," - but they obviously affect the SQ.
  
 I am really with you regarding your comments about iFi products, and can corroborate your experiences.
  
 As soon as I "recover" from the LPS-1 and it's Cardas cable, - I am going to grab the Startechs....
  
 Have you seen these Cardas USB cables, or tried the short Curious cables?
  
http://www.sonore.us/adapter.html
  
 Cheers, and once again, Thank you for all of your awesome work...


----------



## rb2013

Here is one sweet USB stick!
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-DataTraveler-Predator-1TB-DTHXP30/dp/B00E65QM8O
Kingston DataTraveler HyperX Predator 1TB USB 3.0 Flash Drive   
 http://www.legitreviews.com/kingston-shows-what-is-inside-a-hyperx-predator-512gb-flash-drive_15054


----------



## rb2013

albrecht said:


> Oh right..... I totally forgot about that. I am going read up more on your DAC project: Thanks for reposting the link.
> 
> Experimenting with the 2 iFi's and the RUR has inspired me to play a little more. I still want to buy a Cardas link AC cable feeding the microRendu from the Uptone LPS-1.
> 
> ...


 

 The APL is doing duty in the office system.
  
 I agree with you completely, I know it's not pretty or a simple path, but it works.  I have tried to simplify it as much as possible - without degrading the SQ - this is as simple as I could get.
  
 LPS-1 - How do you like it?  What changes did you hear?
  
 I did try the 200mm Curious and in fact the full size 1M USB as well - I preferred the RUR (W4S Recovery 2.0) provided 6in USB cable.  And on the USB cable front the LH Labs 2G.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Coilfield

Hi to all,
 Rob, your so through.  Thanks for all the info.
 I have just finished some subjective testing;it may be of interest to some. I hope I'm not out of line, I'm a newbe.
  
 Sata 2 ports run in ide mode;fresh install.
 Os on ssd.
 My ranking;
 1) Ram drive 1.35v.
 2) Sdhc card 18Mb write, gen. usb power with 3.3 V reg. in R/W device.
 3) Hdd spinning drive.
  
 Ram drive sounds fast and detailed.
 Sd card sounds lean with lower noise floor.
 Spinning disk had stronger bass.
  
 My preferred players;
 1) Jplay; hibernate, (expensive).
 2) Bug head emperor; black screen, (free).
 3) Cplay/cics, Fidelizer, (free).
 4) JRiver; Kernel streaming.
  
 All are very good and I have used them as tuning tools, to suit my constantly changing system.  Sort of like swaping tubes.
 The greatest difference for me has been reducing the background processes from 50 to 15. Less jitter.  The first 3 players run in lock-up mode. Kernel streaming has some nice tone.


----------



## rb2013

coilfield said:


> Hi to all,
> Rob, your so through.  Thanks for all the info.
> I have just finished some subjective testing;it may be of interest to some. I hope I'm not out of line, I'm a newbe.
> 
> ...


 

 Good info - what OS and system?  As I mentioned I considered running the OS from one of the USB sticks in the Startech.  This goes way beyond the three modes you mention.  As it would then be galvanically isolated from the PC. Powered in very low noise - AC line isolated and filtered - low noise LPS envirnoment.
  
 But also potentially benefiting from the USB to TCPIP packet reconstruction.
  
 As I mentioned I did hear a small improvement going from a WD Black HDD to a PNY 128 SSD with a El Fidelity SATA filter (this acts as a power noise filter) using a low noise high PSRR SeaSonic fanless PC PS.
  
 I would try the HQ Player if you are open to any music player.  http://www.signalyst.com
  
 Definitely upgrade to the Pro version of Fidelizer - major upgrade in SQ over the free version - I'd say 2X-3X the improvement from the HDD to SDD improvement.
  
 Run in Purist mode for best results.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Coilfield

HQ Player is to pricey for me, given the ever changing teck. I did try it; loved the sound, but not the interface.
  
 Thanks for the input on Fidelizer pro.  I just finished assembling the parts for a 31 driver dipole line array, 1st order 3 way, pio caps.  So now I'm learning and contemplating the path after assembly,(3 months), maple and tools are expensive.
  
 I was able to get in the 3 power filters and OCC cables for the digital stuff.  As per your rec.; I'm very happy.  I've really enjoyed your references to Lps, caps and filters as well.
  
 Last year I ran an over clocked i5 with several fans.  I eliminated the fans, under-clocked the cpu and enjoyed that more.
 I currently use a S.O.C.; Asrock j1900, baytrail 10 watt. max.

 Everything in Bios disabled, including speed step.
 Dual boot; Server 2012 with 15 processes and win 7 with 30 processes.  Cplay/ cics and Fidelizer; ram drive for storage.
 Seasonic psu, < 5mv noise, but still SM and a fan.
 AC line isolation and filtering - low noise LPS  is the way to go. I also had a nice experience with TCPIP packet checking on a switch with cat 6 cables.
  
 X:\Bryan Ferry-Bête Noire through phones right now.
 Listening to a bunch of his music lately.
  
 Frank


----------



## Coilfield

Music switch to Journey 1975.  Do you know this one?
  
 Frank


----------



## rb2013

Cool Video:
  
Use a bunch of USB Flash drives in a RAID array.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dougISKs2vQ


----------



## rb2013

coilfield said:


> HQ Player is to pricey for me, given the ever changing teck. I did try it; loved the sound, but not the interface.
> 
> Thanks for the input on Fidelizer pro.  I just finished assembling the parts for a 31 driver dipole line array, 1st order 3 way, pio caps.  So now I'm learning and contemplating the path after assembly,(3 months), maple and tools are expensive.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice Frank.  I would give Fid Pro a try  - only $59. 
  
 http://www.fidelizer-audio.com/fidelizer-upgrade-program/
  
 I like Bryan Ferry - last night I went gritty - Robin Trower - 'Bridge of Sighs'  Whoa!  Power Guitar - amazing production - so musical and smooth.  Tough on this recording.
  
 Another sea change musical display - best I have heard this by far.
  
 Listened to the track 'In This Place' a dozen times - the first time almost brought me to tears.  So FREAKING awesome this new SQ!  42 yr old album - Redbook file ridiculous at how good it sounded.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIVwPuwiHa4


----------



## rb2013

coilfield said:


> Music switch to Journey 1975.  Do you know this one?
> 
> Frank


 

 Oh yes - been in that '70s mood lately.  Boston, Journey, Bad Company, AC/DC tonight


----------



## Coilfield

Robin Trower - 'Bridge of Sighs'  played a couple of weeks ago.  Fantastic album.
 Due for a replay over the holidays.
 Bad Company-Burning Sky is also on my replay list, as is Jethro Tull in Moscow.
  
 Frank


----------



## rb2013

coilfield said:


> Robin Trower - 'Bridge of Sighs'  played a couple of weeks ago.  Fantastic album.
> Due for a replay over the holidays.
> Bad Company-Burning Sky is also on my replay list, as is Jethro Tull in Moscow.
> 
> Frank


Listened to JT 'Benefit' last night as well. 'Song For Jeffery' outstanding.

Right now a little pre dinner listening, Chris Issak 'Heart Shaped World'. Smooth vocals, air and space, twangy gitar. A little Bourbon to warm up.

It‘s already shaping up to be a great musical evening.

'Wrong to love you, wrong to love you, like I do...I do, I do, I do...'

Cheers!


----------



## slex

Interesting! Wish there something like this built like a TV box with lots of USB stick inputs, perhap one day can view high definition 4k too.

Just started to break in my F1 now since gotten them 3 months back, can't use in ios9 but ios10-SWEET


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> Interesting! Wish there something like this built like a TV box with lots of USB stick inputs, perhap one day can view high definition 4k too.
> 
> Just started to break in my F1 now since gotten them 3 months back, can't use in ios9 but ios10-SWEET


Great! Cheers


----------



## rb2013

I have been thinking about this as a possible alternative method of getting the SPDIF coax signal from the Singxer F-1:
  
 Use this Wolfson WM8804 i2s to SPDIF converter board - powered by a separate 5VDC ultra low noise LPS.
  

  
 It is inexpensive and could be built easily.  Just run a i2s cable from the Singxer F-1 i2s output to this boards i2s input.
  

  
 I have a friend who tried to mod his F-1 - to replace the SPDIF RCA box - so he cut off the RCA socket (not a smart move) and attempted to wire a separate WBT RCA - it didn't work.
  
 But this could salvage his F-1 and maybe just provide a better SQ.
  
 The idea would be to bypass the MornSun (black box at the bottom of the board middle) with a 'clean' 5VDC external LPS.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/252233915299?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## wushuliu

rb2013 said:


> I have been thinking about this as a possible alternative method of getting the SPDIF coax signal from the Singxer F-1:
> 
> Use this Wolfson WM8804 i2s to SPDIF converter board - powered by a separate 5VDC ultra low noise LPS.
> 
> ...




Ah ha. Got one myself. Works great. The key is adding a flip flop board after it. Specifically a potato semi. The flip flop will reclock the signal and the potato in particular has very low jitter. Adding the potato after the wm8804 is what took my setup to a level of refinement and inky black analog goodness I had not heard before and called it a day...


----------



## wushuliu

Oops I'm referring to their SPDIF to i2s board. Didn't read the post thoroughly... Good quality though.


----------



## rb2013

wushuliu said:


> Oops I'm referring to their SPDIF to i2s board. Didn't read the post thoroughly... Good quality though.


 

 Wonder if that would work on the i2s to SPDIF board?


----------



## ericp2

Hi. im new here and following this setup, since i think this makes the most sense working with small boxes that can be easily replaced in future if needed
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 so far i ordered the singxer F1 which will arrive in 1 month or so from Shenzhen, im already using the StarTech USB2G4LEXT2 boxes, JPlay 6.2, the "old Jcat USB card"....i also own an Rednet D16 device, so far i can say i prefer the startech solution, its not only the sound quality also the design
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...small black one are looking cool  and upgradeable which the rednet isnt 
 For future investment i would like to ask if if anyone has experience with the new Jcat femto card as well as the new W4s PS-1 modular power supply which looks quite promising to me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 In the meanwhile im playing with the mutec boxes, im quite excited if the singxer will sound "better" ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (image missing)
 thanks eric


----------



## somestranger26

ericp2 said:


> Hi. im new here and following this setup, since i think this makes the most sense working with small boxes that can be easily replaced in future if needed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Which USB converter are you using now?


----------



## ericp2

Im have both, the Mutec MC-1.2 and the Mutec MC-3+ USB, strange thing is i prefer the cheaper one, maybe im the only one in the world, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




the MC-1.2, it can be powered over USB bus which the MC-3+ USB cannot, seems like its more or less power supply depending


----------



## rb2013

ericp2 said:


> Hi. im new here and following this setup, since i think this makes the most sense working with small boxes that can be easily replaced in future if needed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Eric,
  
 Very cool - your the 1st person besides myself that has compared the Rednet AOIP to the Startech USB/Ethernet solution.  The factor you prefer it as well is evidence I may not be alone in hearing what I'm hearing (and raving about it).
  
 I have directly compared the Mutec MC-3+ USB to the Singxer F-1 and with some additional data and power chain gizmos preferred it (see my oenning page for my detailed subject ratings).  So I think you are in for a pleasant surprise if you power your F-1 with a decent LPS.
  
 Marcel at JCAT has offered to send me a demo USB femto card - and I may take him up on that.  But really can't see how that would improve things - IF - you are powering your LEX with an ext LPS.
  
 I saw the announcement on the W4S PS-1 - but have seen little else about - is there a thread out there?  I would saw the Uptone Super-Cap LPS-1 is a top draw solution as well.

 The trouble with these of course is the price of admission.  I have had great results powering the REX with a 24VDC Discrete regulated MIEYAN LPS.
  
 I would highly recommend trying a 256GB USB PNY stick for music storage in one of the empty REX USB slots.

 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

ericp2 said:


> Im have both, the Mutec MC-1.2 and the Mutec MC-3+ USB, strange thing is i prefer the cheaper one, maybe im the only one in the world,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is interesting  - and not totally surprising - since the MC-3+USB has a relatively inexpensive SMPS for power.  The folks on Tri-Na blog have had good success how wiring it with a LPS.


----------



## ericp2

Hi Rb2013,
  
 cool, great to hear your reply, thanks, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i will try to get the MIEYAN LPS as well, anyway the Singxer F-1 is on the way from China to Austria, so far i think the big game changer are this Startech boxes, really amazing, thanks for this recommendation  eric...cool to be in this thread,
  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

ericp2 said:


> Hi Rb2013,
> 
> cool, great to hear your reply, thanks,
> 
> ...


 

 Nice to have company


----------



## colour97

this is my plan :
pc - usb lex - lan - rex - usb - f-1 coax - dac .

does it work?

please advise.
thank you


----------



## Ikemen

Colour97, 
From the layout on post 46, I understood this differently. That is, the USB card is first in the chain if you like, fed over the ethernet to the PC, then played over USB/coaxial to the DAC. Your layout has the media player ( PC) the wrong side of the USB key I think. 

I am new to this so may be completely wrong.


----------



## rb2013

colour97 said:


> this is my plan :
> pc - usb lex - lan - rex - usb - f-1 coax - dac .
> 
> does it work?
> ...


 

 That will work - but I'd recommend powering the F-1 by a separate external LPS.  Even just a inexpensive TeraDak X1/X2
  
  
 Good luck


----------



## rb2013

ikemen said:


> Colour97,
> From the layout on post 46, I understood this differently. That is, the USB card is first in the chain if you like, fed over the ethernet to the PC, then played over USB/coaxial to the DAC. Your layout has the media player ( PC) the wrong side of the USB key I think.
> 
> I am new to this so may be completely wrong.


 

 No USB card needed - just USB straight from the PC USB port.  I'd recommend some type of split USB cable as in my setup (data and power legs separate).  And feeding the LEX with an external LPS (as I have shown).
  
 Here are a few high quality split USB cables:
  
 http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=46
 http://lhlabs.com/products/lightspeed-cables/
  
  
  
  
 As a cheaper alternative - the TeraDak X1/X2 comes with a USB power split off cable:


----------



## TJHUB

RB2013:

I've been following your threads since the locked F-1 thread. I've tried the F-1, but found the Pro3z better in every way for my setup. I have a few LPS's, so I have done some thorough testing in that regard. The Pro3z is a real gem for me, and I never would have found or tried it without your enthusiasm for these new chipsets. Thanks for that.

I am intested in trying the Lex/Rex setup, but I wanted to make a statement. If there is anything I have found absolutely critical, it's Windows Server 2012 R2, in Core mode, running AudiophileOptimizer, with JPLAY Streamer in hybernate mode. Nothing else comes close for me. Other Windows OS's sound fuzzy and smeared, and I cant find any love for Fidelizer either. Also critical for me is good LPS's on a quality USB output card (for me a Paul Pang V2), the OS SSD, and even running the PC. All that said, I cant help but wonder how what I have compares to what you run. I struggle with the idea of starting with anything less than what I run as a front end to the USB output. Ive been working on all of this for years, and far too many hours of testing and changes.

I think the idea of music storage as you are now doing it is intriguing. These are great threads!


----------



## Ikemen

Sorry, I meant to say USB stick not card.

But I am confused. Please advise. USB from the PC USB port to the lex - LAN - Rex..... But is the PC not reading the files from the USB stick, receiving them over the LAN set-up, processing them with a media player and then sending them on? I expect the answer is no

Would like to feed my Amanero card with a clean supply internally (homemade Najda dsp unit). May not need the y cables, though this source looks promising in the U.K. 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180mm-7-AG8-2-Pure-Silver-USB-Interconnect-Power-Data-Input-Independently-/201268922394?hash=item2edc90081a


----------



## rb2013

tjhub said:


> RB2013:
> 
> I've been following your threads since the locked F-1 thread. I've tried the F-1, but found the Pro3z better in every way for my setup. I have a few LPS's, so I have done some thorough testing in that regard. The Pro3z is a real gem for me, and I never would have found or tried it without your enthusiasm for these new chipsets. Thanks for that.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the post and kind kudos.  Someone has offered to send their Pro3z to me to try versus the F-1 so that should be interesting.
  
 I also ordered this i2s to SPDIF WM8084 board to 'fix' my friends F-1 - I will power it with a LT3042 LPS.
 So that will be interesting as well.
  
 Not that I'm in any hurry to change this amazing sounding chain.  But if someone want so to send me an easy plug and play device - I will try it for the community and post my feedback.
  
 I had the Pro3a and much prefered the F-1.  The key on the F-1 is to 'optimize' it with my custom chain.
  
 So it would be interesting to see how the Pro3z fares with the Recovery, iPur2, Startech, etc...
  
 I had the PPA V2 and it was good - needed an external LPS.  But the Startech is in a whole other realm.  And I sold the PPA as it just was not needed.  I don't think it would do any harm - but if you were to power it with a LPS - that would bring the LPS count to FOUR! 
  
 I totally agree on running the OS on a SSD - the PNY 128GB i bought was $39 (a 256GB is $59) - a total no brainer.
  
 Now on the issue of Win Server 2012 vs Win 10 - I don;t know.  Win server 2012 is not cheap.  And to compare the two is just not worth it for me.
  
 On the question of AO vs Fidel - well I don't know again.  But might be worth exploring down the road.  $129 is not cheap - but it is good for 5 installs so I may give it a whirl after doing some further research.
 http://www.highend-audiopc.com/audiophile-optimizer
  
  
 I do like this - it seems WIN10 makes the cut:


> *U*se Windows 10 or Windows Server 2012 R2 as operating system for your high-end audio computer, optimize it with the AudiophileOptimizer and experience analog-like sound as you have never heard it before on a computer based audio system. Learn how to set up your own high-end audio computer by simply following our free *PDF guide*.
 
  
 My dedicated music server has all applications uninstalled except the audio player.  It runs no firewall, anti-virus, or other back ground security operations.  It is not connected to the internet  - ever!  All updating services are turned off.
  
 So right there you have an 80% cut in CPU load and background communications.  My CPU is a Haswel iCore 7 3.3 Mhz, 12 GB DDR3 Ram.  So plenty of processing power (this was very handy with DANTE DVS AOIP).
  
 Even so Fidelizer made a significant difference.  And has been total issue free (running 24/7 for weeks without a lock up).  I noticed a big difference in the free Fidelizer and Pro.
  
 On Jplay which I have - I'm somewhat mixed in feelings.  So far I prefer the ASIO: XMOS USB Audio 2.0 ST 3086 to Jplay running KS.


----------



## Ikemen

Just to throw in my own effort which works on W10: Windows 10 logged off running Lasso Pro in core mode, HYSOLID the media player. 

Windows 10 on a mini-pc, no fan, no HDD 
http://minix.com.hk/en/products/neo-z83-4
Lasso Pro currently discounted at £32 (has to be Pro version to use core mode). Does some similar things to AO, Fidelizer. Version 9 may get some audiophile presets (rather than gaming mode).
HYSOLID is free, but very limited in folders browsing. Super fast though. 

Refining this further brought me to this thread.


----------



## rb2013

ikemen said:


> Just to throw in my own effort which works on W10: Windows 10 logged off running Lasso Pro in core mode, HYSOLID the media player.
> 
> Windows 10 on a mini-pc, no fan, no HDD
> http://minix.com.hk/en/products/neo-z83-4
> ...


 

 Good info - HYSOLID would be out for me - as fast file browsing is important.  But Lasso Pro looks interesting.


----------



## colour97

Thank for your quick response. This is very encouraging . 
 at the very beginning i wanted to buy rednet. then after reading this thread, i change my mind.
  
 there is no stock in hk for this startech lex/rex, it may take time to purchase it from amazon or ebay. 
  
 i am using linux - voyage mpd and  i want to keep trying linux instead of windows at this new usb chain.


----------



## rb2013

One thing I like about Fidelizer Pro - each install is cusomtized for your particular PC.  This should decrease incapatibility issues and troubles.
  
 I noted this from the AO page:


> Test DAC/DDC/NIC driver compatibility with Windows Server​*before​*you order​


 
  
 One reason I had not tried either AO or Fidel in the past - is my USB chain is already pretty complex - I did not want resource to be shut off that would create a debugging nightmare.
  
 With Fidelizer Pro's custom configuration I had ore confidence in not having system issues.
  
 They have a 'tool' that collects PC configuration info that you send to them - from which they make and send you a custom install.
  
 http://www.fidelizer-audio.com
  
 Also Fid Pro has gone through several iterations now - I wonder how much they improved the SQ from past versions?


----------



## colour97

please also advise if i can use singxel su-1 instead of f-1.
  
 thank you.


----------



## rb2013

colour97 said:


> please also advise if i can use singxel su-1 instead of f-1.
> 
> thank you.


 

 Yes certainly - it has a decent on board LPS.  I prefer the F-1 due to it's cheaper price and more flexiblity in LPS choices.
  
 The SU-1 has more outputs like AES and BNC and a neat customizable i2s pinout jumper system.


----------



## dmance

The high end DACs (like MSB) that have bit-perfect test files to verify delivery of music data confirm that its 100% all the time every time with asynchronous USB (barring any severe performance issues or player settings that muck with the bits). So all this effort to get max fidelity USB audio has nothing do to with the data bits.
Since USB only has 4 wires, the 2 lines data are perfect and 1 line ground is planet Earth...So the culprit in all of this is the +5v noise. Analog noise.
It was shocking to me to believe how sensitive DAC chips and timing circuits are to +5V noise that is on the order of millionths of a volt. Almost unmeasurable...That's why DAC designers are incredulous.
You want absolute clarity? From any friggin PC, with any HDD, OS, etc? Insert a Battery based LDO to get the noise under 5uV. Intona does 60uV, LPS does similar. Any 'solution' presented here just plays with this level or adjusts it's noise characteristic.
I have a Musical Paradise MP-U1 in my USB chain. For laptop, for DragonFly. And a 5m ordinary $30 USB2.0 cable.
The bits are perfect and the +5V noise is basically zero. If you can improve on this...Go for it.


----------



## rb2013

dmance said:


> The high end DACs (like MSB) that have bit-perfect test files to verify delivery of music data confirm that its 100% all the time every time with asynchronous USB (barring any severe performance issues or player settings that muck with the bits). So all this effort to get max fidelity USB audio has nothing do to with the data bits.
> Since USB only has 4 wires, the 2 lines data are perfect and 1 line ground is planet Earth...So the culprit in all of this is the +5v noise. Analog noise.
> It was shocking to me to believe how sensitive DAC chips and timing circuits are to +5V noise that is on the order of millionths of a volt. Almost unmeasurable...That's why DAC designers are incredulous.
> You want absolute clarity? From any friggin PC, with any HDD, OS, etc? Insert a Battery based LDO to get the noise under 5uV. Intona does 60uV, LPS does similar. Any 'solution' presented here just plays with this level or adjusts it's noise characteristic.
> ...


 

 There is more to then 'bits are bits'  A $40 DAC and $60 DDC can deliver the bits - but sound pretty mediocre.  Trust  me I've heard a lot of gear and the differences are dramatic.
  
  You have femto clocks susepable to noise on the ground plane and DC, timing issue, USB 'packet noise', etc...
  
 Batteries have there own issues like rise times and current delivery on demand.  And most batteries have higher then 60uv noise.
  
 My TeraDak DC-30W (13uv) with the DC iPur - is well below 1uv.  Not 60.  I do agree the Intona is noisy as well as having crappy SITime CMEMS clocks - with very high phase noise.
  
 But you are wrong about the solution here - it's a radical way to reprocess USB - by TCPIP Ethernet translation...  Nothing like this has exited before


----------



## slex

Interested in the F1 having cleaner power.As far i know there are no inlet for power in F1 ( original casing)unless you customize it.

Will the iDefender from ifi do the same job? Basically its cutting off the supply from your source's power and injecting new cleaner 5V power if you feed it with better dedicated LPS.
At the same, the idefender cutting off ground loops.
Im interested in the pro3z too, its has built in inlet for power. Might be different clocks between them.


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> Interested in the F1 having cleaner power.As far i know there are no inlet for power in F1 ( original casing)unless you customize it.
> 
> Will the iDefender from ifi do the same job? Basically its cutting off the supply from your source's power and injecting new cleaner 5V power if you feed it with better dedicated LPS.
> At the same, the idefender cutting off ground loops.
> Im interested in the pro3z too, its has built in inlet for power. Might be different clocks between them.


 

 The F-1 can be fed with cleaner power - not from the PC USB by several methods.  The Recovery and Regen have separate ext power ports - then feed the power through to the F-1 by their UBS outputs.  You can use a split USB cable to do the same.
  
  
 The iDefender, can do that and is a bit different then the USB 2.0/3.0 boxes, in that it attempts to sever the USB ground from the PC, hard to do, this is referred to as 'galvanic isolation'  The Intona does this and of course the inherent GI of Ethernet give the Startech GI.
 http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-idefender3-0/
  


> The iDefender3.0® protects against the common problems of ground loop noise and noisy USB power: 1. Breaks noisy ground-loops. Significantly reduces system noise floor and makes for better dynamic contrast, warmth and resolution
> 2. Disconnects the USB Power from the PC and replaces it with a clean external power (optional iPower* 5V for ultra low noise)
> 3. USB3.0 port technology – most advanced and highest USB specification


 
 Note they don't mention galvanic isolation - just USB ground loops.  I assume they are referencing the same thing - maybe not.  Given iFi's perchant for 'Extreme' marketing - funny they didn't have 'GALVANIC ISOLATION' in 26pt print blasted across the top of their iDefender page.
 For just a separate power feed any of the iUSB 2.0's or 3.0's do that. 
  
 The Pro3z can take power from the ext port or the USB - it has a switch.  The clocks remain the same - NDK -SD clocks. 
  
 Here is a comparison of the CCHD-975 vs the NDK SD's. Note the NDK is better below approx 2.5Khz - the Crystek from 2.5Khz to 1Mhz


----------



## j3294

rb2013 said:


> That will work - but I'd recommend powering the F-1 by a separate external LPS.  Even just a inexpensive TeraDak X1/X2
> 
> 
> Good luck


 

 Hi rb2013, thanks for the very interesting write up.
 Would a SOtM sms-200 replacing a pc be a cheaper and more optimised option?


----------



## slex

rb2013 said:


> The F-1 can be fed with cleaner power - not from the PC USB by several methods.  The Recovery and Regen have separate ext power ports - then feed the power through to the F-1 by their UBS outputs.  You can use a split USB cable to do the same.
> 
> Im intriqued by describtion of iDefender especially this part:
> 
> ...


----------



## rb2013

j3294 said:


> Hi rb2013, thanks for the very interesting write up.
> Would a SOtM sms-200 replacing a pc be a cheaper and more optimised option?


Well I highly doubt it. There is the lack of GI, and separate LPS's, and it's UPnP.


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> Im intriqued by describtion of iDefender especially this part:
> 
> "With 12-Element Array on the output and 6-Element Array technology on the input, there is next to no noise ‘supplied’ to downstream devices and ‘leaked’ back out to nearby components."
> Ok seem i will be picking 1 up along with spdif ipurifier before 2017. Hope both turns up well.


 
 Well it would be great if this $49 does what a $300 Intona/JCAT does.
  
 I have owned many iFi products: iPur, iPur2, DC iPur, 3 different voltages iPowers, iSPDIF, iUSB 2.0, Micro iDAC2
  
 Most of these where not good.  The iDAC2 was worse then mediocre as a DDC, DAC and HP amp.  Most were just mediocre and way overhyped.  I felt the iSPDIF actually made the SQ worse from the F-1.  In the past I had good success with the W4S Remedy and Mutec MC-3+ USB as SPDIF reclockers.  The iPowers are OK for the money - but as SMPS inject alot of noise back into the AC mains - which I felt degraded the SQ. 

 The first iPur was a nothing burger - the 2nd version, the iPur2 - much, much better and I do like.  DC iPur is pretty good - on higher noise PS's
  
 Bottom line with iFi it's hit or miss.  I do see that the new iDefender uses that microUSB power port like the iSPDIF which means your are almost forced to use their special plug iPower.
  
 Good luck


----------



## TJHUB

rb2013 said:


> Thanks for the post and kind kudos.  Someone has offered to send their Pro3z to me to try versus the F-1 so that should be interesting.
> 
> I also ordered this i2s to SPDIF WM8084 board to 'fix' my friends F-1 - I will power it with a LT3042 LPS.
> So that will be interesting as well.
> ...


 
  
 I look forward to your thoughts on the Pro3z vs. F-1, but there presentations are fairly different.  I'm certain if the F-1 works well for you, you likely won't like the Pro3z with your current setup.  
  
 I know Window Sever 2012 is not cheap, but there are some who have compared Windows 10 to Windows Sever 2012 in Core mode, and everyone seems to find 2012 better (and they probable should).  I'm certain Windows 10 is great, and certainly better than previous Windows OS's, but AO is a real gem and shouldn't be overlooked.  Phil has really done an amazing job with it.
  
 I'm not crapping on Fidelizer as I used to use it in the past.  It too is a great program, but I just can't seem to get it to improve on anything I have in place now.  I wish it would as others seem to get benefits with it even from setups very similar to mine.
  
 I used to be a fan of Foobar2000.  In fact, it's still installed on my music PC.  As such, I decided to try it again this morning.  I tried running with direct output to the XMOS driver and JPLAY 6.2.  For me, output to JPLAY 6.2 is still cleaner and more realistic sounding.  But switching back to JPLAY Streamer shows an amazing improvement over anything I was able to get from Foobar2000.  It's a bummer for me as I love MonkeyMote to control Foobar2000.  I like Bubble DS Next controlling JPLAY Streamer, but MonkeyMote is nicer.
  
 I'm not certain where to go next.  I suppose my next move will be to try the StarTech when I get the funds in place.


----------



## slex

I wont be using reclocker in this chain like ipurifier remedy regen etc. Just concentrating of improving power supply chain to F1 then finding the right interconnect cable for linking up.

Won't be using ipower for them. It was the weakest link on my other rig.


----------



## rb2013

tjhub said:


> I look forward to your thoughts on the Pro3z vs. F-1, but there presentations are fairly different.  I'm certain if the F-1 works well for you, you likely won't like the Pro3z with your current setup.
> 
> I know Window Sever 2012 is not cheap, but there are some who have compared Windows 10 to Windows Sever 2012 in Core mode, and everyone seems to find 2012 better (and they probable should).  I'm certain Windows 10 is great, and certainly better than previous Windows OS's, but AO is a real gem and shouldn't be overlooked.  Phil has really done an amazing job with it.
> 
> ...


 
 Well as I've said - I'm not changing music players - so Foobar2K is it for me.  You should try the SoX upsampler with Foobar - it's night and day better.  I understand JRMC just added SoX.  Now with my music files running from the USB stick on the REX really out of this world superb!
  
 Staying with WIN10 for now - I'm sure WIN3000 is already in the works.  I wonder if Fidel doesn't work as well on WIN Server as opposed to WIN10?
  


slex said:


> I wont be using reclocker in this chain like ipurifier remedy regen etc. Just concentrating of improving power supply chain to F1 then finding the right interconnect cable for linking up.
> 
> Won't be using ipower for them. It was the weakest link on my other rig.


----------



## TJHUB

rb2013 said:


> Well as I've said - I'm not changing music players - so Foobar2K is it for me.  You should try the SoX upsampler with Foobar - it's night and day better.  I understand JRMC just added SoX.  Now with my music files running from the USB stick on the REX really out of this world superb!
> 
> Staying with WIN10 for now - I'm sure WIN3000 is already in the works.  I wonder if Fidel doesn't work as well on WIN Server as opposed to WIN10?


 
  
 What do you upsample to?  I will look into it.


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> I wont be using reclocker in this chain like ipurifier remedy regen etc. Just concentrating of improving power supply chain to F1 then finding the right interconnect cable for linking up.
> 
> Won't be using ipower for them. It was the weakest link on my other rig.


 

 I agree on the ipower.  I ran the iSPDIF for 100 hours - maybe that wasn't enough some have reported it needs 200+ to burnin


----------



## rb2013

tjhub said:


> What do you upsample to?  I will look into it.


 

 On my modded R2R DAC60  96k, on my APL 192k.  I set 'Quality' to High, Passband to 95%, Phase Response to 0, Allow Aliasing.
  
 I felt the Pro3a was brighter then the F-1 - the F-1 with more tonal density.
  
 Here is a picture of the PRo3a:
  
  

 Haven't seen a board photo of the Pro3z yet.  Any chance you could post one?


----------



## slex

rb2013 said:


> I agree on the ipower.  I ran the iSPDIF for 100 hours - maybe that wasn't enough some have reported it needs 200+ to burnin




Yes i channel those unused ipower to non audio equipment like modem routet and TV box.

Regarding the pro3Z , is there an adapter to except micro USB power, i was looking into it to link up my iUSB on the other rig.


----------



## Tboooe

@rb2013 I apologize if you covered this already, but did you consider using the fiber Icron usb extenders?


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> Yes i channel those unused ipower to non audio equipment like modem routet and TV box.
> 
> Regarding the pro3Z , is there an adapter to except micro USB power, i was looking into it to link up my iUSB on the other rig.


Not that I'm aware of.


----------



## rb2013

tboooe said:


> @rb2013
> I apologize if you covered this already, but did you consider using the fiber Icron usb extenders?


No, but tried a fiber Ethernet SMC between the two Startech boxes with little effect.


----------



## slex

rb2013 said:


> Not that I'm aware of.



Thanks anyway, will go custom built 1 if necessary. 

Busy tuning this weekendNot happy return them within 7 days.


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> Thanks anyway, will go custom built 1 if necessary.
> 
> Busy tuning this weekendNot happy return them within 7 days.


 

 Yes That's what I did - nice they have the one week return policy


----------



## slex

rb2013 said:


> Yes That's what I did - nice they have the one week return policy



Yes, ok. Yesteday hookup the iDefender 3 first. Took out my LPS200 linear power connect to micro usb( nice to see LED light on "ext power" on it) input and connect PHYST USB cable from schiit into F1.

At this point, had it run for 1-2 hours before i start to study the sonic difference with my ears. Its a tad smoother especially the "high mids". It had became less hash and smoother flowing.Perhaps a darker background on that particular area.

Note : I have a dc ipurifier connected at the power input of my win7 Laptop.

Will listened again and run for 3 days before i connect the spdif ipurifier to F1 and at this part i really hope it goes well without spending much on quality coax cable. Using custom belden 1964A with Canare BNC to RCA adapter, all rated 75 Ohms.


----------



## slex

I might insert isilencer3 into idefender3 together as well


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> Yes, ok. Yesteday hookup the iDefender 3 first. Took out my LPS200 linear power connect to micro usb( nice to see LED light on "ext power" on it) input and connect PHYST USB cable from schiit into F1.
> 
> At this point, had it run for 1-2 hours before i start to study the sonic difference with my ears. Its a tad smoother especially the "high mids". It had became less hash and smoother flowing.Perhaps a darker background on that particular area.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds like you hit pay dirt - nice.
  
 To see if you have real GI you can use a multi-meter to see if their is continuity between the PC connected ground and post the iDefender side. You can test on the outer USB connector metal shield.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Narayan23

rb2013 said:


> Yes certainly - it has a decent on board LPS.  I prefer the F-1 due to it's cheaper price and more flexiblity in LPS choices.
> 
> The SU-1 has more outputs like AES and BNC and a neat customizable i2s pinout jumper system.


 
 Rob thank you very much for your time and efforts, this thread has been a fascinating and educational read. I would like to ask you ¿Is a USB to S/PDIF converter such as the F1 mandatory even if your DAC has a good USB implementation? I wouldn´t like to sacrifice the ability to play sample rates above 192 / DSD64 and was thinking of starting the chain with the Recovery.
  
 ¿Is there a time frame for the debut of the USB super gizmo you mentioned? ¿Do you think it could replace certain items in your current system and take it to another level?


----------



## rb2013

narayan23 said:


> Rob thank you very much for your time and efforts, this thread has been a fascinating and educational read. I would like to ask you ¿Is a USB to S/PDIF converter such as the F1 mandatory even if your DAC has a good USB implementation? I wouldn´t like to sacrifice the ability to play sample rates above 192 / DSD64 and was thinking of starting the chain with the Recovery.
> 
> ¿Is there a time frame for the debut of the USB super gizmo you mentioned? ¿Do you think it could replace certain items in your current system and take it to another level?


Thanks for the kind words. To your questions, likely you would get better SQ from an external DDC. The F-1 being the best by far of the couple of dozen I've owned. The reason for this is somewhat counter intuitive, since now you have a spdif cable in the chain. And as you said, you do give up some of the highest sample rates. Now if your DAC has a i2s input, you retain that.

This ext DDC SQ superiority was explored in detail on my XU208 thread. So I won't go into all that here. But the bottomline, has to do with the inherent noise created by the USB data processing and conversion creating ps noise that negatively effects the DAC's clocks and converters.

If you decide to stay with your internal USB, you'd likely still get the benefits from the rest of the chain.

Don't know when that super USB gizmo would be out on the market, but my guess is some time in 2017.

Good luck and Happy New Year!


----------



## ericp2

Hi rb2013 i got my F-1 today from shenzhenaudio.com pretty fast finally and the original black alu box looks really good
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, im just listening to "Será Una Noche from marecordings", little bit strange music





 but the sound is awesome, no background noise anymore and very natural and relaxed sounding,.... unbelievable for that price i will not change back to the 5x more expensive mutec ..
  
 Thanks and happy new year !


----------



## rb2013

ericp2 said:


> Hi rb2013 i got my F-1 today from shenzhenaudio.com pretty fast finally and the original black alu box looks really good
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Awesome!  Been listening to a bunch of EDM - Era Istrefi, Jonas Blue, Galantis, Mome, MK and Becky Hill, etc...
  
 Enjoy the F-1
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Adosero

Dear Rob, thanks again, it is indeed a very educational read.
  
 What do you think is the main difference between the ultra chain and the one with 170 points (Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2/Startech GB LAN Iso USB)? the usage of an independent LPS for each item on the chain?
  
 Thanks..


----------



## slex

Just fitted Ifi spidif ipurifier to F1 after iDefender. Will let it run for a while. Magenta color led is shown=88.2/96khz.

The double ferrite usb micro cable from sony that i inserted into iDefender have some sonic improvement compare to ravpower micro usb.


----------



## slex

I tried to find another double ferrite to spdif ipurifier but to no avail but.......

Connect to an adapter


----------



## slex

rb2013 said:


> Sounds like you hit pay dirt - nice.
> 
> To see if you have real GI you can use a multi-meter to see if their is continuity between the PC connected ground and post the iDefender side. You can test on the outer USB connector metal shield.
> 
> Cheers



Ok not sure , but will try. Got an antique multi meter. Planning to make a usb grounding box to hook up my PC


----------



## rb2013

adosero said:


> Dear Rob, thanks again, it is indeed a very educational read.
> 
> What do you think is the main difference between the ultra chain and the one with 170 points (Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2/Startech GB LAN Iso USB)? the usage of an independent LPS for each item on the chain?
> 
> Thanks..


 

 Definitely the USB 256Gb PNY Stick memory storage into the REX is the biggest improvement- better LPS's.  The 13uv 24VDC MEIYAN discrete on the REX vs the a 24 VDC LT1083(180uv) LPS.  Added JB VBUS blockers to PC USB and REX USB output to Recovery - see my chain photos.  These added greater smoothness and warmth.
  
 Note I tried the DC iPur on the 24VDVC LT1083 LPS and it overheated after a short period power levels would fluctuate.  It's rated to just 24VDC and likely over it's operating limit.
  
 Added Fidelizer Pro 'Purist', and SSD for the OS, disconnected the HDD - all added some improvement.


----------



## rb2013

Thread: Does SSD sound better than Hard Disk? I found this discussion from a CA thread interesting:
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f7-disk-storage-music-library-storage/does-solid-state-drive-sound-better-hard-disk-1650/index4.html
  


> 04-29-2015, 09:57 PM#156​
> *Kiwicol*
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mr Underhill

ericp2 said:


> Hi rb2013 i got my F-1 today from shenzhenaudio.com pretty fast finally and the original black alu box looks really good
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Did you try running the F1 into the Mutec?
  
 I ask as my F1 arrived today and so I have simply replaced my Audiobreeze with the F1 while it is burning in .....and so I have the spdif >> Mutec3+USB at the moment.
  
 I'll try without in due course.
  
*M*


----------



## Mr Underhill

I have slotted he F1 into my system in place of my Audio Breeze DU-U8 and it now has about 20 hours use.
  
 Initially I thought it was somewhat bright, although with a lot more high frequency detail. The bass was well resolved but some lower register information was not available on some tracks.
  
 Now I would say the brightness is settling down, but the extra detail remains. The lower registers are developing.
  
 This all sounds as though I have reservations, actually I think there is no doubt that this is a step up on my Audio Breeze.
  
 I will try this sans Mutec in due course .....but, as it breaks in I want to be able to compare it to my last setup using my 'review' playlist, which means I only want to change one variable at a time.
  
*M*


----------



## joelha

While this post doesn't perfectly relate to the topic, it does in part.
  
 I've been using a Windows based software player called Infinity Blade (another player by the same author is called Bughead Emperor . . . these are the author's names, not mine).
  
 Putting aside that it's the best sounding player I've ever heard and I have JRiver, HQPlayer, WTFPlay, and have used others, it has a feature that does relate to this thread.
  
 The author, Hiroyuki Yokota, has suggested using a Panasonic Micro SD SLC card (8GB or larger, ideally) with his player as the player will automatically copy files to the card once the files are selected and it will clear the files off the card once they've been cleared from the player.
  
 The player is not nearly as convenient to use as players which have their own custom remote app but, for me and many others, the improvement in sound quality is absolutely worth the trouble.
  
 The relevant point for this thread is that the feature I'm mentioning means that no one has to figure out how to use multiple high capacity flash drives to implement Rob's very innovative solution. Using Infinity Blade, an 8GB SLC Micro SD card (the SLC type is important from what I understand) will suffice for a library of virtually any size.
  
 For anyone who is interested, the links to download the free software are located below. The first link is for Skylake processors, the second link for all other processors.
  
 Joel
  
  
http://oryaaaaa.world.coocan.jp/_userdata/Affeine_2_86_V5_x64_AVX2.zip
  
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-HZf3I4Da03Nng0Zk9KTGNlT2c&usp=sharing


----------



## rb2013

joelha said:


> While this post doesn't perfectly relate to the topic, it does in part.
> 
> I've been using a Windows based software player called Infinity Blade (another player by the same author is called Bughead Emperor . . . these are the author's names, not mine).
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks Joel - interesting information.
  
 I guess a large capacity HDD stays in the picture to feed the SD card 'buffer'
  
 Note that some on that CA thread commented on the better SQ of a USB stick versus an SD card.  They really are very much different in construction and operation - although both use NAND memory circuits.
  
 The newer high capacity USB sticks have advanced crystal oscillators built right on the board - additionally they have 3.3V regulators.  In fact they are micro-computers in their own right - hence can be set as bootable devices.  A few pages back I posted more details on the differences between SD cards and USB sticks.
  
 Now the true advantage in my implementation - is completely GI for the USB storage and file conversion in a 'clean' environment - powered by a separate low noise LPS from the PC (that is a separate LPS not attached to the PC in anyway in fact my PC server and the Startech are on separate dedicated AC noise isolation and common and differential mode filters).
  

  

  
 The new $16,000 Aurender W20 uses a SDD to cache from the internal HDDs. 
  
 But with both the SD Card buffer and the SDD buffer - you have the noisy HDD spinners still in operation.  The internal HDD servo control read heads and motor to spin the HDD at 5600rpm all create modulation power supply noise in the file conversion environment.  I think best to just eliminate all motors, like fans, HDDs and the like from the PC or file conversion Render.
 http://www.aurender.com/page/w20
  
 As far as I'm aware my ultra USB chain is the first to use large capacity USB sticks in this fashion.


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> Did you try running the F1 into the Mutec?
> 
> I ask as my F1 arrived today and so I have simply replaced my Audiobreeze with the F1 while it is burning in .....and so I have the spdif >> Mutec3+USB at the moment.
> 
> ...


 
 This will be very interesting - the F-1 with and without the Mutec as SPDIF reclocker.  I guess you preferred the Breeze DU-U8 over the Mutec as a USB DDC?
  


mr underhill said:


> I have slotted he F1 into my system in place of my Audio Breeze DU-U8 and it now has about 20 hours use.
> 
> Initially I thought it was somewhat bright, although with a lot more high frequency detail. The bass was well resolved but some lower register information was not available on some tracks.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes the F-1 needs 200 hours to fully settle in.  How are you powering it?


----------



## joelha

Great reply, Rob.
  
 I wish I could argue with your conclusion . . . it would save me a lot of trouble if I could. But I can't.
  
 Now I'm going to have to have to buy one of these flash drives. Can you only recommend the flash drive you're using or can you give a recommended set of parameters for a flash drive such that if any drive meets those parameters, it's a good purchase?
  
 Thanks for the information. I understand the benefits of your solution even better now.
  
 Joel


----------



## rb2013

> 11-26-2012, 12:28 AM#80​
> *The Computer Audiophile*
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rb2013

joelha said:


> Great reply, Rob.
> 
> I wish I could argue with your conclusion . . . it would save me a lot of trouble if I could. But I can't.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Joel,
  
 I have one of these Sandisk SD card reader to USB boxes around.  I will try and load some music files on a high capacity SD card and mount in one of the REX slots to compare to a USB stick.  I should note that high capacity (128GB or higher) SD cards are far more prone to be corrupted then an equivalent USB stick.  The PC CPU (or other ASIC) must perform some of the memory allocation functions away from the SD card, like wear management.  This can lead to the exFAT tables to become incompatible or corrupted.  And never do a 'disk format' in Windows - this will likely lead to a corrupted SD card.
  
 These functions on a USB stick are done by it's dedicated microprocessor - so much less vulnerable to corruption.
  
 Beware there are many fake USB flashdrives (low capacity USB drives hacked to appear larger) - so stay away from Ebay and Amazon (just read the long horrendous feedback chains) - such a shame there is not better policing there on these shady sellers (like banning them!).  Some of these counterfeits come in very realistic name brand packaging.
  
 So I went to Best Buyer and bought a name brand - PNY 256GB USB stick.  They are cheap - like $49.  At the time Best buy had a buy two or more computer accessories and get another 20% off.  So I bought three - all for $120.
  
 Now the real key to my chain is the USB/Ethernet Startech to run both the USB music data chain to the F-1 and to run the USB 256GB sticks for storage.  So it serves a dual roll - and leverages the advantages of full galvanic isolation from the PC, SPARTAN 6 FPGA USB/TCPIP packet translation and the MEIYAN LPS feeding the Startech REX box.
  
 So just running a USB stick in an open PC USB port is not likely to provide the same SQ effects.  One could get a separate USB hub and power it with a small separate LPS - but you would still not have the galvanic isolation from the PC USB noisy ground plane.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## joelha

rb2013 said:


> Hi Joel,
> 
> I have one of these Sandisk SD card reader to USB boxes around.  I will try and load some music files on a high capacity SD card and mount in one of the REX slots to compare to a USB stick.  I should note that high capacity (128GB or higher) SD cards are far more prone to be corrupted then an equivalent USB stick.  The PC CPU (or other ASIC) must perform some of the memory allocation functions away from the SD card, like wear management.  This can lead to the exFAT tables to become incompatible or corrupted.  And never do a 'disk format' in Windows - this will likely lead to a corrupted SD card.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the quick replies, Rob.
  
 I'm not a technical guy, but I don't know whether there was a reason the author of the software I'm using specifically recommended Micro SD SLC cards or not. I'm not sure if a standard SD card will offer the same benefit.
  
 That point aside, I have both the Rednet D16 and the Adnaco optical boards, which I believe could make an interesting combination for employing a slightly different flavor of the solution your suggesting. When I've tested that out, I'll hope to let everyone know of my results.
  
 One more question: Do you believe there's any preference in using a USB 2.0 vs. USB 3.0 flash drive?
  
 Thanks again.
  
 Joel


----------



## rb2013

joelha said:


> Thanks for the quick replies, Rob.
> 
> I'm not a technical guy, but I don't know whether there was a reason the author of the software I'm using specifically recommended Micro SD SLC cards or not. I'm not sure if a standard SD card will offer the same benefit.
> 
> ...


 

 Well it's likely due to the higher speed.
  
 As most are aware SD Cards come in different classes - I posted info on this bakc on page 6 - post #79
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/829639/usb-strikes-back-watch-out-aoip-usb-ethernet-chain-beats-all-at-least-for-me/75#post_13112032
  
 In order to get the equivalent data throughput speed to USB 2.0 High Speed (35MB/s) - you need class 10 to just get to 10MB/s - UHS class 3 to get to 30MB/s.
  
 On the Rednet D16 - now it would be great if it had a USB port.  Anyway the Startech/ICRON only support USB 2.0, so I had no need for a USB 3.0 stick. 
  
 I'm able to run 352K and 384K PCM native files and DSD 256 without a hiccup from the USB sticks in the REX.  So the massive data throughput of USB 3.0 does not look necessary.


----------



## rb2013

Another reason for a SLC or single level cell Micro SD card is as a buffer it has to constantly filled and erased over and over.  The SLC SD cards have a higher cycle life.
  
 The write speeds are dramtically lower then read speeds for all solid state media.  So that presents another major challenge to these solid state buffering schemes - the complexity (and higher noise?) needed for a constant write then read operations on the fly.
  
 In case the music written once and then read from that storage.  In fact it is highly recommended to write all music files sequentially vs multiple loads simultaneously.  This 'fills' the NAND circuits in a more uniform fashion.  And eliminates the need for disk defraging - a very wear intensive operation on a solid state device.
  
 http://forums.sandisk.com/t5/Mobile-memory-professional-cards/Which-are-MLC-TLC-MicroSD-cards/td-p/332885


----------



## rb2013

Someone posted this cable over on my PC Music server thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/754654/new-pc-music-server-build-project-all-ssd-no-fans
  
 May give that a try - for the SSD running the OS - just move it's power to the small TeraDak LPS
  
 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01537TMVM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_dp_TOcAybF9MJRAC


----------



## Mr Underhill

rb2013 said:


> This will be very interesting - the F-1 with and without the Mutec as SPDIF reclocker.  I guess you preferred the Breeze DU-U8 over the Mutec as a USB DDC?
> 
> Yes the F-1 needs 200 hours to fully settle in.  How are you powering it?


 

 Yes, I preferred the DU-U8 to the Mutec direct, had more dynamics.
  
 The F1 is powered via the microRendu, which has Regen tech built in.
  
*M*


----------



## Danutz

Hi,
  
 Is there a possibility to use the rednet D16 (like the startech) with the Singxer F1?
  
 Thanks


----------



## dmance

I'll keep posting this until it get through people's heads. All asynchronous USB chains regardless of the differences in sound are all bit perfect. The music data being delivered to the DAC is the same in all cases. Why the audible difference? It's not cable, it's not USB jitter, it's not software, operating system or server hardware performance. 

For those that have a rationale mind to ponder why the many billion dollar IT industry dependent on USB working 100% doesn't give a crap about USB issues whereas we dwell incessantly on it?

Because when it comes to digital-to-digital, USB works fine. 

What we hear with our ears is the small signal noise on the +5V pin on the USB cable...Which gets into the circuits that produce the analog output from the DAC.

I know this post will yet again fall on deaf ears because an entire industry is propped up on promulgating obfuscation and disinformation. Please wake up!!! Threads like this are such a waste of time.

You can have the best USB sound your source and DAC can give by inserting at LDO regulated battery in the USB path. I use a $135cdn Musical Paradise MP-U1 and you can throw away all other devices and higher end cables.

Dan


----------



## Clemmaster

Who are you?


----------



## Mr Underhill

dmance said:


> I'll keep posting this until it get through people's heads. ...........
> 
> You can have the best USB sound your source and DAC can give by inserting at LDO regulated battery in the USB path. I use a $135cdn Musical Paradise MP-U1 and you can throw away all other devices and higher end cables.
> 
> Dan


 
  
*Dan,*
  
 Rather than write inflammatory posts just leave us deluded fools to ourselves and start your own thread where you can develop your arguments.
  
*M*


----------



## ericp2

Hi, i tried to add the Mutec MC3+ USB after the F1 as reclocker, but i prefer to run the F1 as stand alone, i like the sound characteristic of the F1 as it is, the black background, the micro details, the dynamic, the bass response, the smooth sound.....  , the difference was very small but i had the feeling this "blackness between the tones on some rhythmic music" was getting lost a little bit with the Mutec after the F1 so i dont use it actually, but this could also be caused by my 2nd digital cable,.... would be interesting what you find out,..
   
Greetings


----------



## hopkins

mr underhill said:


> *Dan,*
> 
> Rather than write inflammatory posts just leave us deluded fools to ourselves and start your own thread where you can develop your arguments.
> 
> *M*


 
  
 Well, experimenting is fun and interesting, but when you start claiming that 100 hours of burn-in on a USB stick makes the music sound better, it does warrant some serious questioning and tend to discredit the rest - IMO...
  
 Enjoy...


----------



## dmance

Clem,
Me? I'm a retired engineer now two years into high end audio desperately wanting to cut thru the distortions of logic I see. I've been down this path of trying to figure out why a CD transport via AES sounded better than ripped bits via USB. The bits are numerically identical...So why the difference in sound. I went through several products and several hundred dollars to fully resolve the issue...to my satisfaction.
A mindset that accepts that sound variables such and clarity, stage, dynamism (that aren't the pop, clicks and chirps of digital issues) are all about analog noise. USB or AC Mains.

USB filter and de-mucker product or LPS powered devices to clean the USB all still allow some noise thru the USB +5v line.
It's shocking that even 10uV of noise is audible (in the way it affects some DACs)

The direction of the conversion should be to realise the nature of the problem and assertively correct it.


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> Yes, I preferred the DU-U8 to the Mutec direct, had more dynamics.
> 
> The F1 is powered via the microRendu, which has Regen tech built in.
> 
> *M*


 
 I see are you using an iPower or LPS to power the MR?
  


danutz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is there a possibility to use the rednet D16 (like the startech) with the Singxer F1?
> 
> Thanks


 
 I can't see how


----------



## Mr Underhill

Hi Bob,
  
 I'm using an SBooster 6V.
  
 M


----------



## rb2013

dmance said:


> I'll keep posting this until it get through people's heads. All asynchronous USB chains regardless of the differences in sound are all bit perfect. The music data being delivered to the DAC is the same in all cases. Why the audible difference? It's not cable, it's not USB jitter, it's not software, operating system or server hardware performance.
> 
> For those that have a rationale mind to ponder why the many billion dollar IT industry dependent on USB working 100% doesn't give a crap about USB issues whereas we dwell incessantly on it?
> 
> ...


 
 Well old Dan-o - you obviously have little experience trying these different configurations.  But if your little works for you great.  Just get off your high horse here - your speaking to group of very knowledgeable and experienced folks with fairly resolving systems.  And at least for me a deep level of personal ownership and trial with a multitude of devices.  And they do all sound the same.
  
 I suggest you do a little homework on USB PHY and packet noise - John Swenson's articles are a great place to start.  I linked to them near the beginning of this thread - which I highly doubt you have bothered to read.
  
 Happy 2017 Mate!
  


clemmaster said:


> Who are you?


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> *Dan,*
> 
> Rather than write inflammatory posts just leave us deluded fools to ourselves and start your own thread where you can develop your arguments.
> 
> *M*


 

 Bet that will be real popular


----------



## rb2013

ericp2 said:


> Hi, i tried to add the Mutec MC3+ USB after the F1 as reclocker, but i prefer to run the F1 as stand alone, i like the sound characteristic of the F1 as it is, the black background, the micro details, the dynamic, the bass response, the smooth sound.....  , the difference was very small but i had the feeling this "blackness between the tones on some rhythmic music" was getting lost a little bit with the Mutec after the F1 so i dont use it actually, but this could also be caused by my 2nd digital cable,.... would be interesting what you find out,..
> 
> Greetings


 

 Good feedback - thanks!


----------



## rb2013

hopkins said:


> Well, experimenting is fun and interesting, but when you start claiming that 100 hours of burn-in on a USB stick makes the music sound better, it does warrant some serious questioning and tend to discredit the rest - IMO...
> 
> Enjoy...


 

 Why wouldn't a USB stick need burnin?  It has an on board crystal 12Mhz clock, a microprocessor, 3.3V voltage regulator, etc...
  
 But this is the real kicker  - my new Golod 1.1618 Pyramid audio circuit enhancer - what do you think of this?


----------



## rb2013

dmance said:


> Clem,
> Me? I'm a *retired engineer* now *two years* into high end audio _*desperately*_....


 
 Wait stop there - say no more


----------



## hopkins

rb2013 said:


> Why wouldn't a USB stick need burnin?  It has an on board crystal 12Mhz clock, a microprocessor, 3.3V voltage regulator, etc...
> 
> But this is the real kicker  - my new Golod 1.1618 Pyramid audio circuit enhancer - what do you think of this?


 
 I suggest you take a long vacation, and your system will certainly sound much better when you get back


----------



## ericp2

Dmance just as background information im active engineer in the PCB and substrate industry and i was working the last 3 years with Intel to build up a plant in China to produce substrates for the Skylake processor and further products, i know how important a proper board layout is to work with a high speed processor, even one micro via on the wrong place can influence the signal runtime and when you take a closer look to to the latest devices like the singxer F1 you will see how much work it is to develop such a product, its not just 0 and 1  and i agree to rb2013, thanks


----------



## rb2013

hopkins said:


> I suggest you take a long vacation, and your system will certainly sound much better when you get back


 

 I suggest you take a permanent vacation from this thread...troll


----------



## hopkins

Lighten up dude!


----------



## joelha

Well, I listened to my Panasonic 8GB SLC microSD card against a USB flash drive, both plugged directly into my server.

I haven't set up my Adnaco optical boards yet to get the electrical isolation I want.

I was rooting for the flash drive because of the higher capacity and lower expense.

But it wasn't close. The microSD simply sounded much better. Smoother and larger soundstage. Just more pleasant in general.

Joel


----------



## taz23

Wow, you have me looking up the prices of SLC memory cards with your post.  Boy, are they not cheap!
  
 I found some 32GB in CompactFlash size too: http://www.digikey.com/products/en?mpart=AF32GCFI-OEM&v=1282


----------



## Mr Underhill

ericp2 said:


> Hi, i tried to add the Mutec MC3+ USB after the F1 as reclocker, but i prefer to run the F1 as stand alone, i like the sound characteristic of the F1 as it is, the black background, the micro details, the dynamic, the bass response, the smooth sound.....  , the difference was very small but i had the feeling this "blackness between the tones on some rhythmic music" was getting lost a little bit with the Mutec after the F1 so i dont use it actually, but this could also be caused by my 2nd digital cable,.... would be interesting what you find out,..
> 
> Greetings


 
  
 Thx, I'll let the F1 run in for a few more days and then take the Mutec out, and let you know what I hear.
  
*M*


----------



## slex

Idefender3+F1+spidif ipurifier after 2 days, so far music get kinda smoother, slight improvement on imaging. Next stop, changing of Physt Cable to a better one and perhaps a isilencer after idefender.
I have replacement hifimediy USB high speed galvanic isolator coming next week,will compare into the chain.


----------



## rb2013

joelha said:


> Well, I listened to my Panasonic 8GB SLC microSD card against a USB flash drive, both plugged directly into my server.
> 
> I haven't set up my Adnaco optical boards yet to get the electrical isolation I want.
> 
> ...


 

 Ok I tried the same - but had the opposite result.  The microSD Card was more compressed and lacked the vibrancy of the USB 256GB PNY stick.  
  
 Both plugged into the REX.
  
 So I guess our set-up are completely different.  Your USB stick is plugged right into the noisy USB bus on the processor board - this defeats the purpose of the Statech - that is complete electrical isolation from the ground and power from the noisy PC.
  
 Plugged directly into the server - I wouldn't expect much


----------



## rb2013

taz23 said:


> Wow, you have me looking up the prices of SLC memory cards with your post.  Boy, are they not cheap!
> 
> I found some 32GB in CompactFlash size too: http://www.digikey.com/products/en?mpart=AF32GCFI-OEM&v=1282


 

 I think he is using a micro SD vs a Compact Flash card.
  
 8GB SLC - $116
  
 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/swissbit/SFSD8192N1BM1MT-I-QG-221-STD/1052-1214-ND/5762231
  
 That's the largest capacity I see at Digikey - don't trust Amazon, Ebay or even Newegg due to the counterfeiting going on.
  
 But they do have a Compact Flash SLC 128GB for $800
  
 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/swissbit/SFSD8192N1BM1MT-I-QG-221-STD/1052-1214-ND/5762231


----------



## Mr Underhill

Couldn't wait, so I removed the Mutec3+USB yesterday afternoon and did some listening.
  
 The Mutec acts like a lense, it clarifies and focuses. Elements that were indistinct now can be clearly heard. In my system the Pros and Cons are:
  
 Pro:
 Clearer bass line ....on some tracks;
 Added dynamics ....on some tracks;
 Clearer detail ....on some tracks.
  
 Con:
 Added sharpness.
  
 This edge is what can add to the dynamism of a track, really aids the attack on piano.
  
 Moving to just the F1 the music felt more relaxed. On the whole I felt this was an advantage, but there were tracks where I missed the Mutec.
  
 Overall I felt that the F1 presented a better soundscape. Although gentler things felt more of a piece. The Mutec can feel that it is artificially highlighting certain elements.
  
  
 I have a playlist called 'Bad Tracks'. These are tracks that sound aggressive on my system. The Mutec highlights these issues. The F1 on its own does not 'solve' the issues, I think they are simply present in the mastering, but it doesn't push them in your face.
  
 I am going to run with just the F1 for a week or so, then reinsert the Mutec and see what I think.
  
*M*


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> Couldn't wait, so I removed the Mutec3+USB yesterday afternoon and did some listening.
> 
> The Mutec acts like a lense, it clarifies and focuses. Elements that were indistinct now can be clearly heard. In my system the Pros and Cons are:
> 
> ...


 

 Very interesting - thanks for the detailed breakdown.
  
 With my USB chain and Fidelizer Pro 'Purist' the detail is already tremendous - the best I've ever heard.  So I appreciate your experience - and has me less interested in trying the Mutec with this Ultra USB chain.  I don't know if greater detail would be productive - I can already hear so deep into the recording.  Right now the balance with rich tone is just right for my taste and system.


----------



## rb2013

Although my try with a MicroSD card in lieu of the PNY 256GB USB sitck did not pay off.  The MicroSd card I used was not a SLC version - but a Class 10 MLC.
  
 So I think I'll order a smaller SLC MicroSD from Digikey to try.  It's only $20 but just 1GB - but enough to test some music tracks.
 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/atp-electronics-inc/AF1GUDI-OEM/AF1GUDI-OEM-ND/3770366
  
 I ordered a different MicroSD USB adapter as well:
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EHIOS0S/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## rb2013

Thanks to @joelha - on the SLC tip.
  
 I see that Digikey also has SLC USB Flash drives - not cheap as well but worth a try for a low capacity to test:
  
 $18 for a 1GB SLC USB stick - high read speed of 32MB/s
 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/apacer-memory-america/APHA001GR23CG-2T/APHA001GR23CG-2T-ND/5250733


----------



## Mr Underhill

> I don't know if greater detail would be productive - I can already hear so deep into the recording.


 
  
 I suspect that this wouldn't be an easy task ......but, would you mind picking two tracks that caused you WOW moments and writing a detailed breakdown of what you are hearing. I do appreciate that describing what you hear is NOT straightforward!
  
 Thx,
  
*M*


----------



## colour97

http://www.ebay.com/itm/332006299046
  
 i am ready to purchase startech, please check if this is the correct one. thank you very much.
  
 at  startech device , you suggested to insert 3 usb stick (to store music)
  
 1. what is the sq difference if music was stored at pc ?


----------



## rb2013

colour97 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/332006299046
> 
> i am ready to purchase startech, please check if this is the correct one. thank you very much.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes that is the correct one.
  
 But I see Amazon has them for a slightly lower price:
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HFGQESY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 I notice a blacker background - greater detail and more dynamics.
  
 The effect much less with an old 4GB USB stick I had - vs the newer high capacity 256GB PNY.  Note the better crystal clocks on the newer versions:


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> I suspect that this wouldn't be an easy task ......but, would you mind picking two tracks that caused you WOW moments and writing a detailed breakdown of what you are hearing. I do appreciate that describing what you hear is NOT straightforward!
> 
> Thx,
> 
> *M*


 

 I thought of doing this but didn't want to make it seem music genre centered.  On EVERY recording I hear a major difference - on some it's a sea change difference.  And it appears the the bigger differences ares not based on recording age - but the creativity and genius in the production and performance.  Some recordings - many like the Super Albums of the 70's really stand out - but even on newer recordings.
  
 So for an example last night I listened to Feist  'The Reminder' and Florence and the Machine 'Ceremonials' - two vastly different productions.  Feist - simpler - parts just pure solo vocal.  More of a relaxed performance relative to Florence's.  The difficulty lies in the natural, realistic presentation of Feist's dynamic vocals.   Florence - complex production -multiple background vocals, instrumental layering, at times quite intense.  So easy for a system to sound compressed and congested.
  
 So on Feist for example, on 'So Sorry' her inflections have greater emotional conveyance - the subtle intonations readily discernible.  The simple tambourines presenting in space - so realistic.  The depth of the bass notes adding the foundation of the vocal - deep and resonant like I have never heard before. A vibrations texture - almost tactile.  Feist's awesome guitar playing - tapping.  The subtle string fingering - a hint of squeaking on chord changes.  So many details combining with the fantastic emotional vocal control and inflections - all sewn together into a whole cloth - seamless in sound staging.
  
 But the magic is in both the micro dynamics (guitar) and the marvelous vocal macro dynamics - subtle then forceful - tonally dense.  Melodic - and soothing - then raw and intense.
  
 I have never heard this song presented in this fashion.  It seems so simple at first listening on a 'normal' system - now I have a whole new appreciation in the production - the way the guitar, tambourine appear and disappear.  But most of all her ability to use the subtly of her vocal to convey a deeper level of emotion.   Great stuff!
  
 On '1234' the toe tapping PRAT - shows off the wonderful Pace, Rhythm and Timing that this Ultra USB chain produces.  And where AOIP would sometimes fall short, losing PRAT to a clinical approach.  You just can't sit still - makes you want to dance!  The way the song builds and builds - again it's the little things and big.  At 2:12 minutes into the song a wonderful piano interlude appears, then the trumpet, all accompanied by the rhythmic background vocals.  And of course Feist's lead vocal leading the building intensity.  The bass plumbing the depths of what my Maggies can produce. 
  
 Again it the dynamic intensity with the PRAT that just captures your attention and doesn't let go.  With AOIP and my previous USB chains - I kind'a found this song a bit boring, maybe the whole album.  WOW!  Not last night...
  
 Also a stand out - the interesting and unique vocal presentation on 'Honey, Honey' hypnotizing eerie electric guitar, then the subtle plucking of a harp - just so real - you can almost hear/see fingers moving the strings.  Back in comes those eerie vocals - then an interplay between the harp, vocals and melodica to finish the track.  Great stuff.
  
 Did I say this was a simple production?  I used to think so - now a level of genius and complexity finally revealed - so much thought and creativity went into this production.  I just love re-experiencing this in the new light of this revealing source.
  
 It would takes pages to describe Florence's 'Ceremonial' - so layered and complex.  But just suffice it to say that last night deeper recorded levels were revealed - new subtle instruments, and the dynamics - just breathtaking...


----------



## Mr Underhill

*Thx Bob,*
  
 I'll read your post properly a bit later.
  
 I have just been working my way through a number of albums and have an issue. I have played a number of files that are 24/192, but the DAC is seeing 96k.
  
 Looking at the microRendu DAC diagnostics it is reporting:
  

```
Singxer USB Audio 2.0(F1) at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, full speed : USB Audio Playback: Status: Running Interface = 1 Altset = 1 Packet Size = 582 Momentary freq = 96000 Hz (0x60.0000) Feedback Format = 18.14 Interface 1 Altset 1 Format: S24_3LE Channels: 2 Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC) Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000 Interface 1 Altset 2 Format: S16_LE Channels: 2 Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC) Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000 Interface 1 Altset 3 Format: SPECIAL Channels: 2 Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC) Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000
```


```
access: RW_INTERLEAVED format: S24_3LE subformat: STD channels: 2 rate: 96000 (96000/1) period_size: 500 buffer_size: 2000
```


```
Simple mixer control 'Singxer Clock Selector',0 Capabilities: pvolume pswitch Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Limits: Playback 0 - 127 Mono: Front Left: Playback 127 [100%] [0.00dB] [on] Front Right: Playback 127 [100%] [0.00dB] [on] Simple mixer control 'Singxer Clock Selector',1 Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Limits: Playback 0 - 127 Mono: Playback 127 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]
```
  
 I am using LMS and have checked the setup and there is no bandwidth limit imposed.
  
 It would appear that the F1 is not reporting that it can handle 192k; that said I am at a loss to understand where the downsampling is being done!
  
 Any thoughts?
  
 Cheers,
  
*M*


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> *Thx Bob,*
> 
> I'll read your post properly a bit later.
> 
> ...


Well sorry not very knowledgeable about Micro-Rendu settings. I remember from the old XU208 thread and the F-1 thread on CA no one mentioning this issue with using the two together. Do you use any XMOS ASIO driver with the MR? What audio player are you using?


----------



## rb2013

One obvious reading is USB 'full speed' - should' t it read USB ' high speed' ?


----------



## slex

rb2013. Need your opinion! Is having a multiple ports USB2 Hub ( like pluggables)powered by LPS good for devices which only need power?

Seem i need more of the 5V power rail and my dedicated LPS is too wasted on that.


----------



## bilboda

Any reason why this wouldn't work in lieu of the Startech ?
 https://www.amazon.com/AV-Access-Extender-Synchronous-Conference/dp/B01EV33R8S/ref=pd_sbs_147_4?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01EV33R8S&pd_rd_r=NR4M8QX7E9HJC645J0ME&pd_rd_w=adZ5v&pd_rd_wg=KQWyK&psc=1&refRID=NR4M8QX7E9HJC645J0ME


----------



## slex

slex said:


> rb2013. Need your opinion! Is having a multiple ports USB2 Hub ( like pluggables)powered by LPS good for devices which only need power?
> 
> Seem i need more of the 5V power rail and my dedicated LPS is too wasted on that.



Something like this hub?
http://vaunix.com/products/usb-hubs/specifications/


----------



## colour97

Good info - what OS and system?  As I mentioned I considered running the OS from one of the USB sticks in the Startech.  This goes way beyond the three modes you mention.  As it would then be galvanically isolated from the PC. Powered in very low noise - AC line isolated and filtered - low noise LPS envirnoment.
  
 But also potentially benefiting from the USB to TCPIP packet reconstruction.
  
 As I mentioned I did hear a small improvement going from a WD Black HDD to a PNY 128 SSD with a El Fidelity SATA filter (this acts as a power noise filter) using a low noise high PSRR SeaSonic fanless PC PS.
  
 on thread 84, you mentioned *considered running the OS from one of the USB sticks in the Startech. *
  
 right now, i am using linux voyage mpd, you can install and boot the voyage either at hard drive or usb stick . ( raspberry can do the same).
 once you power off , or unplug the usb stick,  maybe your setup will be gone .
  
 on thread 84, is it the intention you want to  perform this kind of installation? or you are referring to other installation method.  i don't have startech so i don't know
 what i can see at the pc for this 4 usb sticks,


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> Something like this hub?
> http://vaunix.com/products/usb-hubs/specifications/


 
 Seems like way overkill for just a USB hub.  Why is it so expensive?
  


slex said:


> rb2013. Need your opinion! Is having a multiple ports USB2 Hub ( like pluggables)powered by LPS good for devices which only need power?
> 
> Seem i need more of the 5V power rail and my dedicated LPS is too wasted on that.


 
 Well not really - better to use something like the Recovery or Regen.  As they provide other benefits besides regulated low noise USB power to the USB DDC - like reclocking of the USB data stream (in the case of the Recovery with ultra low phase noise Crystek clock), closed impedance matching, etc...
  
 They do allow for easier external LPS power


----------



## rb2013

bilboda said:


> Any reason why this wouldn't work in lieu of the Startech ?
> https://www.amazon.com/AV-Access-Extender-Synchronous-Conference/dp/B01EV33R8S/ref=pd_sbs_147_4?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01EV33R8S&pd_rd_r=NR4M8QX7E9HJC645J0ME&pd_rd_w=adZ5v&pd_rd_wg=KQWyK&psc=1&refRID=NR4M8QX7E9HJC645J0ME


 

 No - I tried a bunch of these lower cost - non GB LAN USB/Ethernet extenders - and they made the SQ worse not better.
  
 There is some thing special happening with the full USB to TCPIP packer translation that going on in the more advanced GB LAN certified extenders.
  
 For example here is another cheaper Startech box I tried - fortunately Amazon has a good return policy:
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T9RTT2U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## rb2013

colour97 said:


> Good info - what OS and system?  As I mentioned I considered running the OS from one of the USB sticks in the Startech.  This goes way beyond the three modes you mention.  As it would then be galvanically isolated from the PC. Powered in very low noise - AC line isolated and filtered - low noise LPS envirnoment.
> 
> But also potentially benefiting from the USB to TCPIP packet reconstruction.
> 
> ...


 

 The USB sticks appear as regular Windows drives.  So yes they could be used to boot WIN10 - every one of the newer PCs has a USB stick boot option in the BIOS.
  
 All that would be needed would be a copy of the C: drive (with the correct OS install) to one of the USB stick drives - then just set the BIOS to boot off that drive.
  
 Now the issue may arise as to the latency of CPU calls to that drive for virtual memory operations.  On a dedicated stripped down PC for music - with lot's of RAM (12GB or more) this would likely not be an issue - but could be.  This is different with an internal SSD - with 6Gb/sec SATA III connection - not much latency there.  In fact, one benefit of a SSD for OS operation is it's faster speed over a spinner.
  
 So I have one of these coming - that will allow me to power the internal OS SSD by an external LPS - away from the PC's PS.  For $6and a few minutes to hook up it seemed worth trying.  Then only the CPU MB will be powered by the SeaSonic.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/221446206429?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I can use the modded TeraDak X1/X2 I have now powering the LEX end of the Startech GB LAN USB/Ethernet set-up to also power the OS SSD in the music server.  It sits right behind my PC music server.  The X1/X2 has two ports  - one a DC (which has adjustable voltage) and a fixed 5VDC USB.  The TeraDak puts out 1A @5VDC so more then enough juice to power both the SSD and the LEX.  These SSD's consume ridiculously small amounts of current.


----------



## rb2013

I should note not all SSD's are the same speed wise.  The inexpensive PNY 120 SSD I bought may actually be slower then a totl HDD:
  
 http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/pny-cs1311-ssd-review-120gb480gb/5/

  
 My HDD was a WD Black 7600rpm 2TB - so close in speed to the 1TB WDD Blue shown above.  Note the PNY 120GB CS1311 speed.  I probably should have - and may down the road move to a larger faster SSD.  Although I have to say the boot times have dropped significantly, even with the 120GB.
  
 But I believe this is what has caused the improved SQ with the PNY SSD vs the WD HDD:

  
 Power demands on the SATA MB bus orders of magnitude less then the WD HDD.  Less power supply load means less PS noise for both the drive and the MB/CPU.  Not to mention the lack of motor vibration, read head servo noise modulation, ambient noise, etc...


----------



## jabbr

rb2013 said:


> I should note not all SSD's are the same speed wise.  The inexpensive PNY 120 SSD I bought may actually be slower then a totl HDD:
> 
> http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/pny-cs1311-ssd-review-120gb480gb/5/
> 
> ...




I believe drives with high rotation speeds are very bad for sound quality. Creates a lot of electro-magnetic disturbances, best to to SsD or slow spinning disks. Disk transfer speeds are irrelevant IMO for music playback.


----------



## colour97

i just ordered startech, shipping time takes abt 3 weeks.

next step will get ready LPS


----------



## rb2013

jabbr said:


> I believe drives with high rotation speeds are very bad for sound quality. Creates a lot of electro-magnetic disturbances, best to to SsD or slow spinning disks. Disk transfer speeds are irrelevant IMO for music playback.


 

 I agree - the difference in power needs on a HDD vs SSD is pretty shocking.


----------



## rb2013

colour97 said:


> i just ordered startech, shipping time takes abt 3 weeks.
> 
> next step will get ready LPS


 

 Wow  - did you order from Amazon or Ebay?  Three weeks seems a long time.
  
 Good Luck


----------



## rb2013

rb2013 said:


> I should note not all SSD's are the same speed wise.  The inexpensive PNY 120 SSD I bought may actually be slower then a totl HDD:
> 
> http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/pny-cs1311-ssd-review-120gb480gb/5/
> 
> ...


 
 What is interesting in this test - the older generation PNY CS2 211 240GB (373MB/S) )and 480GB (403MB/S) significantly outperform the newer generation PNY CS1311 480GB (210MB/S) and 120GB (96MB/S).


----------



## rb2013

It appears that these SSD drives come in SLC versions - but like the SLC MicroSD and SLC USB Flashdrives are very expensive: Intel 32GB SLC SSD - $337
 
https://www.amazon.com/Intel-X25-SATA-Drive-SSDSA2SH032G101/dp/B001RLG0GY
 
Is there a SQ difference?
 
Reading that PC Mag review the newer gen PNY use a small SLC cache on the drive then the slower TLC -
 
So for medium sized files the transfer speeds are blazing fast - then drop off as the SLC buffer becomes saturated.  The test was done with 30GB movie files - but they show the results before saturation:
 


> Finally, we wanted to see how performance was in a real world use when transferring large files to the SSDs. As we know, most TLC NAND based SSDs utilize a SLC caching algorithm to help improve performance, especially writes. This is needed due to the inherent slowness of TLC NAND. For this test we are going to simply stress write performance by transferring over a 30GB folder of movies off of one SSD to this one and time how long it takes. Once complete we can calculate the average speed.



 
 


> During our real world file transfer test we can see that while benchmarks display high sequential write speeds within their testing file size of just a few GB, when testing more than that these TLC SSDs will slow during transfers. For the most part, the 120GB model is second to last at an average write speed of 96MB/s, however, the 480GB model was able to maintain above 200MB/s during testing.
> To build upon this test we also looked to see where the speeds leveled off to by using HD Tune Pro.
> *120GB Left(top)/480GB Right(bottom)*

 


 
 
So it looks like the 120GB SLC cache hits saturation at about 3GB and the 240GB at 35GB approx.   Both probably large enough for audio files without slow down.
 
So it seems there is little need for a SLC.


----------



## somestranger26

rb2013 said:


> I should note not all SSD's are the same speed wise.  The inexpensive PNY 120 SSD I bought may actually be slower then a totl HDD:


 
 Any plans to try an M2 NVMe drive instead of a SATA drive, to see if there's any difference in sound quality?
  
 Like this one: http://www.samsung.com/us/computing/memory-storage/solid-state-drives/ssd-960-evo-m-2-250gb-mz-v6e250bw/
  
 It has a 13GB SLC cache to improve the speeds drastically over a regular TLC drive.
  

  


rb2013 said:


> The USB sticks appear as regular Windows drives.  So yes they could be used to boot WIN10 - every one of the newer PCs has a USB stick boot option in the BIOS.
> 
> All that would be needed would be a copy of the C: drive (with the correct OS install) to one of the USB stick drives - then just set the BIOS to boot off that drive.


 
 In order for this to work, you would need to do a full drive clone, not simply copying the C: drive. If you do this, ideally you would use a source and target drive of the same size, or with a larger target; downsizing while cloning has the potential for OS corruption.
  
 The C drive is just the main partition on the drive, but there are others like MSR, EFI, GPT, etc. where the bootloader info and such are stored. The partition scheme depends on whether you're using an MBR or GPT partition table, but either way it's not as simple as copying the files on one partition to another.


----------



## Superdad

somestranger26 said:


> Any plans to try an M2 NVMe drive instead of a SATA drive, to see if there's any difference in sound quality?


 
  
Yes, getting rid of active SATA interfaces has long been a sonic plus for me.  PCIe flash drives are a great way to go.


----------



## rb2013

somestranger26 said:


> Any plans to try an M2 NVMe drive instead of a SATA drive, to see if there's any difference in sound quality?
> 
> Like this one: http://www.samsung.com/us/computing/memory-storage/solid-state-drives/ssd-960-evo-m-2-250gb-mz-v6e250bw/
> 
> ...


 

 None at all - on a dedicated music server running Fidelizer Pro to strip processes to a bare min - that would fruitless overkill.  Running a typical redbook audio track of say 50MB the speed of a SATA SSD like the PNY 120GB is 446MB/s up to say 3GB.  So that audio file is using roughly 0.10 of the throughput capacity.  No need for a faster connection.  But for a bit more money you could use the 240GB PNY with 493MB/s throughput up to say 35GB - now you're down to like .0986. Even with a Hi Res 24/192 audio file with approx 250MB you still are no where near reaching a major of the max throughput.  Read the test clearly the WD HDD advantage is only on a 30GB video file - after the SLC cache reaches saturation.And that  was for the slower write speeds - read speeds (as in audio file playback) of SSD's are even faster.
  
 Now more importantly is getting that SSD drive power source away from the MB SATA power feed.  See my post regarding powering the SSD with an ext LPS - for $6.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/221446206429?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 The PNY SSD drives come with a neat drive cloning software called ACRONIS True Image - it imaged a 1TB WD to the 120GB PNY SSD without issue (of course the C: drive was only using approx 60GB).


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Yes, getting rid of active SATA interfaces has long been a sonic plus for me.  PCIe flash drives are a great way to go.


 

 I think the more important issue is moving the power source away from the PC MB - whether it's SATA or PCIe to an ext LPS:
  
 Sound familar?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/829639/usb-strikes-back-watch-out-aoip-usb-ethernet-chain-beats-all-at-least-for-me/135#post_13131323
  


> 06-06-2015, 08:48 PM#157​​
> *Superdad*
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Adosero

I remember having read somewhere that the extra heat caused by PCIe was a no go for audio but I didn't try it personally.


----------



## johnjen

My Mac has a PCIe bus SSD which is my boot volume, and while this isn't a ram disk there probably isn't much difference, performance wise.
  
 JJ


----------



## rb2013

adosero said:


> I remember having read somewhere that the extra heat caused by PCIe was a no go for audio but I didn't try it personally.


 
 I think the way these devices are powered - best externally with a low noise LPS - may be the critical factor.  Maybe going with an ext PCIe case/ SSD powered by a LPS.  But that gets even more complicated and expensive.  A SATA SSD powered externally by a LPS should do the trick.  Anyway I'll report what I find with my set-up in the next week so once that cable arrives.


----------



## Mr Underhill

****Whoops****
  
 Been a plonker.
  
 Having not seen quiet what I expected for my USB F1 interface via the microRendu I thought I would see if there was an updated Firmware available. I loaded up the drivers and found I was running Firmware v2.0. On the Kitsune site they had firmware 2.2 for the F1 and so I loaded it, it completed and .......appears to have turned my F1 into a neat black brick. The F1 powers but there is no communication going on.
  
 Just in case you are tempted to try firmware from other than the manufacturers site, please learn from my sad experience.
  
 Sigh.
  
 On a brighter note I have:
  
 1. Sold my Mutec3+USB;
 2. Ordered a replacement F1;
 3. Ordered an IFI Purifier 2.
  
 I also bought a 128GB USB 2.0 stick and copied some files onto it, this I plugged in to my NAS to have a listen.
  
 All the tracks via the USB appear to have slightly more detail, but also have more edge. The only track which sounds better is Signe from Clapton Unplugged, aided I suspect by the lack of vocals.
  
 I have tracked down a site selling the Startech at a reasonable price and I am probably going to order one tonight.
  
*M*


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> ****Whoops****
> 
> Been a plonker.
> 
> ...


 

 Oh I heard about that - I think that firmware update was for the SU-1 possibly?   I don't think the firmware on the F-1 is user updateable - but can be by the factory.  I'd contact Singxer directly about that.  If possible to salvage it would be worth it.
  
 The Mutec is gone  - I suppose it was bettered by the F-1?  Not worth the cost to keep as a SPDIF reclocker?
  
 As I mentioned the USB stick needs burnin (I know I get flamed here about this - but it's what I have experienced - they have crystal XO clocks and mico-processors like the F-1 - so why not?).  I found 100-150 hours things smoothed out.  Of course the real benefit comes with running from behind the GI wall of the CAT6 Ethernet UTP on the Startech REX.
  
 Happy to hear I will have a positive or possibly negative confirmation on another system.
  
 Speaking of salvaging a F-1 the Wolfson i2s to SPDIF board came in.  I hope to use it to resurrect my friends modded F-1. I will power the Wolfson SPDIF board with a separate 5VDC LPS.  It will an interesting test of this alternative SPDIF coax path in terms of SQ.
 See below:


----------



## mtruong34

mr underhill said:


> ****Whoops****
> 
> I have tracked down a site selling the Startech at a reasonable price and I am probably going to order one tonight.
> 
> *M*




Care to share this site which may benefit interested others?


----------



## taz23

@rb2013, I remember that you will be comparing the Pro3z with the F-1 when you receive the Pro3z.  I wonder how is that coming along?
  
 Looking forward to your impressions, and thanks for sharing your hard work with all the informative posts.


----------



## Mr Underhill

rb2013 said:


> Oh I heard about that - I think that firmware update was for the SU-1 possibly?   I don't think the firmware on the F-1 is user updateable - but can be by the factory.  I'd contact Singxer directly about that.  If possible to salvage it would be worth it.
> 
> The Mutec is gone  - I suppose it was bettered by the F-1?  Not worth the cost to keep as a SPDIF reclocker?
> 
> ...


 

*Hi Bob,*
  
 Thanks for the thoughts, I am hoping my error will help others avoid the same fate.
  
 I did email Singxer. They got back to me a day later and advised me to just use firmware from their site ....no mention of a possible fix. I will watch your experiment with interest.
  
 I will keep running the USB Stick .....but I was not surprised. The effect for me was akin to the effect of SMPS on sound quality. From my POV I am enjoying doing this one step at a time.
  
*M*


----------



## Mr Underhill

mtruong34 said:


> Care to share this site which may benefit interested others?


 
 https://www.ballicom.co.uk/usb2g4lext2-startech-com-4-port-usb-2-0-over-lan-.p1009343.html?ref=PLA&gclid=CIfr9Le9rdECFeop0wodmpgLMw
  
 £436 inc VAT


----------



## taz23

mr underhill said:


> https://www.ballicom.co.uk/usb2g4lext2-startech-com-4-port-usb-2-0-over-lan-.p1009343.html?ref=PLA&gclid=CIfr9Le9rdECFeop0wodmpgLMw
> 
> £436 inc VAT


 
 https://www.icronshop.com/icron-brand/icron-ranger-2304ge-lan

 Another option from Icron online store: £396 inc VAT
 I went with paying with Euro, as that works out better with the currency converter.  Just change the currency on the top right hand of the site.


----------



## Mr Underhill

rb2013 said:


> The Mutec is gone  - I suppose it was bettered by the F-1?  Not worth the cost to keep as a SPDIF reclocker?


 
  
 I think that it is a bit more complex. There is no doubt that using the Mutec resolves extra detail.
  
 The F1 high frequency data it superb, without edge. Better than any other DDC I have heard in my system.
  
 With my current F1 dead I am listening to my Audio Breeze DU-U8. This is very good, although the F1 matches all its strengths and adds the superb HF.
  
 Interestingly I actually prefer both the F1 and Breeze to the same boxes PLUS the Mutec. I feel that the Mutec in resolving the extra detail makes my system far more critical of my music sources, good files sound great, poor sources can sound dire ....and a lot of music I love has not been brilliantly mastered.
  
 Overall I find I prefer both the F1 and Breeze bare, not with the Mutec added.
  
*M*


----------



## Mr Underhill

taz23 said:


> https://www.icronshop.com/icron-brand/icron-ranger-2304ge-lan
> 
> Another option from Icron online store: £396 inc VAT
> I went with paying with Euro, as that works out better with the currency converter.  Just change the currency on the top right hand of the site.


 

 I have seen some discussion of the icron, and I see that it is USB3.0, but I wanted to stick with Bob's chain and hopefully gain from his extensive research.
  
 Be interested in what you find with your use of the Icron.
  
*M*


----------



## rb2013

taz23 said:


> @rb2013, I remember that you will be comparing the Pro3z with the F-1 when you receive the Pro3z.  I wonder how is that coming along?
> 
> Looking forward to your impressions, and thanks for sharing your hard work with all the informative posts.


 

 Haven't heard anything from the offerer - as to sending me the Pro3z.  So I guess just got busy with some other things.
  
 I have a F-1 Singxer case on the way - so I can use my open one for the F-1 to Wolfson i2s/SPDIF converter project.  Does this Singxer case make any SQ differences?  Don't expect so - I'll report back.
  
 Note I use vibration control and heavy brass weights on the current F-1 box.  I have made copper clad BB boxes as weight/stablizers - they sit on top and I have vibration control underneath my Recovery.  Copper is an excellent RFI/EMI shielding material - so these boxes act in a dual role.


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> *Hi Bob,*
> 
> Thanks for the thoughts, I am hoping my error will help others avoid the same fate.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I recommend the one step at a time approach as well.  For a couple of reasons - it's a lot of fun to experience the SQ improvements at each change (at least for me it was).  Second each system is different so some of the finer tuning elements (like the JB's) may not be beneficial in every chain.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## rb2013

taz23 said:


> https://www.icronshop.com/icron-brand/icron-ranger-2304ge-lan
> 
> Another option from Icron online store: £396 inc VAT
> I went with paying with Euro, as that works out better with the currency converter.  Just change the currency on the top right hand of the site.


 
 Just note the Icron uses a different (and cheaper) custom ASIC vs the Spartan 6 FPGA.  Do they sound different?  I can't say.  Theortically the ASIC should do the job of USB packet to TCPIP packet translation just the same.  But in audio theory doesn't always pan out.  Do they have different data buffers?  One advantage of TCPIP Ethernet is error correction -so large buffers are used.  USB 2.0 Audio doesn't have packet error correction.  Do the ASCI vs FPGA have different clocks?
 Here are the board photos of my FPGA version LEX then REX:

  

  
  
  


mr underhill said:


> I think that it is a bit more complex. There is no doubt that using the Mutec resolves extra detail.
> 
> The F1 high frequency data it superb, without edge. Better than any other DDC I have heard in my system.
> 
> ...


 
 That's great feedback - glad I sold my Mutec.
  
 Cheers


----------



## mz2014

Hi
 What do you think about this ?
 http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/outlet/95-usb-drive-sm3252q-pcba.html


----------



## rb2013

mz2014 said:


> Hi
> What do you think about this ?
> http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/outlet/95-usb-drive-sm3252q-pcba.html


0GB flash included...not much use


----------



## Mr Underhill

*IFI Purifier 2*
  
 OK, I have been using this for a few hours, and so if there is a break in process then I am just at the start. Please remember that I am currently using the Audio Breeze DU-U8 rather than the F1.
  
 I removed the VBUS2, as the Purifier requires USB power, and slotted in the iP2.
  
 The immediate effect was that I felt that the sound had in some way been detached from my speakers so that the sound field was now independent and expanded.
  
 The main reason that I have been sinking time and resources into this process is that in moving from my Naim NS01 to the microRendu (mR) is that I gained lots of dynamics and detail, however some tracks have aggressive Ss and Ts.
  
 The iP2 in addition to adding space also reduced edge. It didn't completely remove it, certain problem tracks now have a reduced but still evident issue.
  
 So, all positive? Perhaps not. The positive effects also can subtly reduce dynamics, this is a price I am more than happy to bare.
  
 Interestingly I am also running in the USB stick and had played my test playlist to my younger daughter this morning. Like me she identified Signe as better from USB. For the others she heard differences but had no preference. Fitting the iP2 seems to me to further narrow the difference, but addressing different issues in the two sources.
  
 I have left the mR streaming via the iP2, I'll report back any changes with time .....but this performs well straight off the bat.
  
*M*


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> *IFI Purifier 2*
> 
> OK, I have been using this for a few hours, and so if there is a break in process then I am just at the start. Please remember that I am currently using the Audio Breeze DU-U8 rather than the F1.
> 
> ...


Good report. Yes it also benefits from run time. My experience is that the iP2 has special synergies with the F-1, I did like it with the Breeze which I'm still using in my office system, but I didn't get nearly the SQ improvement as with the F-1. My favorite location in the chain, is right into the F-1. Both with the Regen and Recovery I prefered it there, not what is recommended by the manufacturers. It needs power, so the Recovery (with ext LPS feed), provides that with additional noise regulation. Using the iP2 after the Recovery drops the DC power noise to the F-1 below .1uv

I had the iP1 and felt it was virtually worthless.

On the simbliance issues and edge to the sound. One the revelations on my Ultra USB chain, is it supreme musicality. Warm, rich, naturally dense tone. Makes even the edgiest Redbook recordings sound like high res DSD.

While gaining in detail and dynamics - and vibrancy and resolution. What a combination!

Right now listening to Yes 'Close to the Edge'. One of those complex, genius ‘70s albums, but has a brightness usually. Not tonight amazingly creamy smooth.

I still can't get over what a sea change to the sound this chain has produced.

I'd try a Jitterbug at the PC USB, modded to block the 5VDC Vbus power. Use a spilt USB cable like the 2G and just the data leg - power leg to a inexpensive LPS. I use the same at the REX USB feed. I have one more JB on an open USB port on the front of my server, and use on those 'tough' recordings. Sometimes I remove it. So that's three JB's, two modded as VBUS blockers.


----------



## mtruong34

mr underhill said:


> https://www.ballicom.co.uk/usb2g4lext2-startech-com-4-port-usb-2-0-over-lan-.p1009343.html?ref=PLA&gclid=CIfr9Le9rdECFeop0wodmpgLMw
> 
> £436 inc VAT


 
  
 Thanks, but that seems much more expensive than ~$480 USD they were selling for on Amazon.


----------



## Mr Underhill

mtruong34 said:


> Thanks, but that seems much more expensive than ~$480 USD they were selling for on Amazon.


 

 Yep. BUT, from the UK I would have to add on postage and 20% VAT; and, if anything went wrong it is easier to deal with a UK supplier.
  
*M*


----------



## mtruong34

mr underhill said:


> Yep. BUT, from the UK I would have to add on postage and 20% VAT; and, if anything went wrong it is easier to deal with a UK supplier.
> 
> *M*




Ah I see. Yes. It would be better/cheaper depending on one's location. I'm from the US.


----------



## slex

Poorman's iUSB3 Micro ( iDefender+iSilencer+LPS ). Took out dc ipurifier from laptop since having heat issues. Replace with an UPS with RF/EMI noise filter supplying laptop and 2 LPSs.

Since putting a balance 800V transformer to chain. Music been ever so revealing with pitch black background.


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> Poorman's iUSB3 Micro ( iDefender+iSilencer+LPS ). Took out dc ipurifier from laptop since having heat issues. Replace with an UPS with RF/EMI noise filter supplying laptop and 2 LPSs.
> 
> Since putting a balance 800V transformer to chain. Music been ever so revealing with pitch black background.


 

 Nice - feeding the i's with iPowers?


----------



## Spark85

Hello again rb2013.

 I'm glad you made the sound even better. You may not remember my query, but I finally bought a SU-1 Singxer with very good results. Effectively even better than the Yellowtec and more versatile.

 In case anyone is interested, I have replaced the SU-1 power supply with a Nano IUSB 3.0 that I already had. Powering both the USB and the motherboard. Also with 5V. I can put photos.
 It is likely that with such good opinions about the Startech system and the model of PSA, I also buy it, but it is enough money and I have to think because I do not know if it will be worth it.
 I guess in your system is the USB2G4LEXT2 essential?


 A final question.

 The chassis of your DAC, I suppose you will have a ground connection.
 Do not you think that even if you have a galvanically isolated connection to the PC, you still have a source of noise coming from the DAC chassis with the ground?
 Assuming the mass of the audio output, share it with the power ground. What do you think about this issue? Have you made any proof?

 In my case, this is and can measure continuity with the polymer. And I've thought of powering the DAC with an external DC power source, but the question is whether the DAC will work properly without a grounding in the case chassis.

 Thank you and forgive my bad English.


----------



## slex

rb2013 said:


> Nice - feeding the i's with iPowers?




Nope. Powered by LPS.


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> Nope. Powered by LPS.


 

 Even better


----------



## rb2013

spark85 said:


> Hello again rb2013.
> 
> I'm glad you made the sound even better. You may not remember my query, but I finally bought a SU-1 Singxer with very good results. Effectively even better than the Yellowtec and more versatile.
> 
> ...




No worries on your English  - mine is horrible (note the frequent edits on my posts!)
 
To your questions - but first on the power supply mod for the SU-1 - yes photos would be great.
 
The Startech is absolutely essential for me - not recommending anyone else buy it.  But it was the overwhelming factor in advancing my system to this exalted level.  keep in mind the PS Audio LR is a different chip and only has one USB port on the backend.  So you lose the opportunity to run USB or MicroSD cards (see my next post regarding the newly arrived SLC USB and MicrSD cards!) - you need those three other open ports for that CRITICAL part of the equation.
 
Great question on the DAC side of things - first my DAC has dual R-Core transformers.  Renowned for PSRR (power supply ripple rejection) - one for the analog side and another for the digital side (brillant!) - no el-cheapo toroidals.
 
But to be on the safe side I use a separate AC line isolator and filter for the DAC - separate from the PC and another for the USB Ultra chain.
 
Remember SPDIF has galvanic isolators built in  - both on the sending end (F-1) and on the recieveing side - this is completely different then the USB galvanic isolation.
 
As I mentioned before the Synergistic Research Element Copper - with active shielding and the new ECT modules (and a Gaelaio MPC shield eneigizer) has really made a significant difference on the SPDIF side - it helped in the image depth and focus nicely.  Prior to that cable I had the very good Audio Sensibility Statement Silver 1.5M digital cable (for sale now in the classifieds).
 
But SR has this other product - insanely expensive - but it's a grounding product that is said to work wonders.
The Synergistic Research 'Grounding Block' - maybe some day I will try one:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/synergistic-research-grounding-block-and-high-definition-ground-cables#16pH3BEdIPExKzhi.97


----------



## rb2013

Ok the SLC MicroSD card and SLC USB stick arrived today from Digikey.  They were inexpensive small capacity ones (one 512MB and the other 1GB)- to just experiment with.
  
 Cold out of the box in the REX - I have to say I'm impressed.  A subtle, but noticable difference over the large capacity PNY USB 256GB sticks.
  
 I will burn the in for 100 hours and do a more critical listening comparison.
  
 So far the MicroSD SLC sounds the best, then the USB SLC, then the PNY USB.  Like I said not big differences but so far notable.  Even greater detail, clarity and dynamics. 
  
 Well this is stupendous news!  Another notch up the SQ ladder - a bit closer to audio Heaven?  Well I'm feeling like I'm in audio Heaven already - so maybe cloud nine in Heaven!
  
 The issue is the cost - a 32GB microSD SLC is $370 from Digikey (I do not trust Ebay or Amazon to  buy these).
  
 But maybe the solution for those looking for the Nth degree of SQ - get a 4GB (around $60) and load the nights listening albums - that'll hold around 8 Redbood CDs. 
 Then play from there.
  
 I'll have to spend some more time a/bing the difference to see if that's worth it.  But it may well be.  At least until the price of SLC MicroSD cards falls - which they will eventually.
  
 BTW I use a USB/MicroSD Adapter into the REX.


----------



## taz23

rb2013 said:


> Just note the Icron uses a different (and cheaper) custom ASIC vs the Spartan 6 FPGA.  Do they sound different?  I can't say.  Theortically the ASIC should do the job of USB packet to TCPIP packet translation just the same.  But in audio theory doesn't always pan out.  Do they have different data buffers?  One advantage of TCPIP Ethernet is error correction -so large buffers are used.  USB 2.0 Audio doesn't have packet error correction.  Do the ASCI vs FPGA have different clocks?
> Here are the board photos of my FPGA version LEX then REX:


 
  
 I went with the Icron since I understand that the PS Audio-labelled LANRover also uses ASIC.  Thus I am assuming that it is not doing much damage (if at all).
 Are the current Startech still using FPGA, or is it only in the earlier ones?  It will be great if someone who got them recently can verify this.  Many thanks!
  
 While I am still burning in the Icron units with my USB sticks, I have to admit that the musicality have improved.  It is akin to the Intona, but to a greater degree.  
  
 Happy listening!


----------



## roman410

Hi, quick short question. On my digital chain microrendu - F1 - remedy - Lite DAC60, sticking Startech between microrendu and F1, will that work? Or I need eliminate microrendu and connect F1 directly to computer? Thx


----------



## rb2013

taz23 said:


> I went with the Icron since I understand that the PS Audio-labelled LANRover also uses ASIC.  Thus I am assuming that it is not doing much damage (if at all).
> Are the current Startech still using FPGA, or is it only in the earlier ones?  It will be great if someone who got them recently can verify this.  Many thanks!
> 
> While I am still burning in the Icron units with my USB sticks, I have to admit that the musicality have improved.  It is akin to the Intona, but to a greater degree.
> ...


 Glad you like it so far, good have the Intona to compare against. Maybe the ASIC is better? Or exactly the same. Someone had one of the Icron ASIC versions and listed if for sale. 0nly a direct comparison could tell for sure.

My thinking is the Startech with the FPGA was a group OEM order and that when they're gone, the reorder would be for the ASIC version. It' s cheaper to produce.

Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

roman410 said:


> Hi, quick short question. On my digital chain microrendu - F1 - remedy - Lite DAC60, sticking Startech between microrendu and F1, will that work? Or I need eliminate microrendu and connect F1 directly to computer? Thx


Well why the mR? Seems unnecessary, unless your player needs it. The Ultra chain is already pretty convoluted. But maybe it's a super synergy?

It should work as the Startech/Icron just appear as a USB hub, even though it's tcpip Ethernet.


----------



## joelha

rb2013 said:


> Ok the SLC MicroSD card and SLC USB stick arrived today from Digikey.  They were inexpensive small capacity ones (one 512MB and the other 1GB)- to just experiment with.
> 
> Cold out of the box in the REX - I have to say I'm impressed.  A subtle, but noticable difference over the large capacity PNY USB 256GB sticks.
> 
> ...




I'm intrigued by the 32gb micro sd sic option, Rob, if I could load Windows 10 on it and run it without paying too much of a speed penalty.

What do you think?

Also, I've been running my Ethernet connection to my D16 through an optical connection. I'd love to be be able to run a USB to Ethernet adapter out of the Startech extender instead, but so far no luck in having the D16 recognize it. I'm running a separate Ethernet connection from the internet to my server. I'll appreciate any suggestions anyone has to make this work.

Joel


----------



## steklo

Hi Bob,
  
 how much is the influence of the computer providing the audio stream into your USB chain? Does it have to be a highly optimized audio computer or does your USB strategy lift any computer's USB out to that stellar level you are reporting?
  
 Best regards
 Stefan


----------



## Narayan23

Hi Rob, the Sbooster guys are coming out with the Vbus3:  https://www.sbooster.com/vbus3
  

  
 opinions on the Vbus2 were favourable:
  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/wyred-4-sounds-recovery-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-reclocker-findings-audio-performance-curated-thread-27140/index20.html
  
 The price for the Vbus2 is pretty cheap at €21 so the 3 should be around the same. I was wondering if this could be used instead of the Vbus modified Jitterbug for us less savvy in DIY or would it best be applied somewhere else in the chain if applied at all?


----------



## rb2013

joelha said:


> I'm intrigued by the 32gb micro sd sic option, Rob, if I could load Windows 10 on it and run it without paying too much of a speed penalty.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> ...


 

 There should be no issue on running WIN10 from the 32GB SLC SD - other then the size of the drive.  Speed wise - a lot will depend on the amount of RAM your server has.  I would say 12GB min, the more the better. 
  
 If you read my posts on the PNY 120GB SSD I use to run the OS - it has a SLC buffer up to 2-3GB.  The PNY 256GB has a SLC buffer of approx 30GB.  I have a cable coming to power the PNY SSD externally by LPS - not off the MB SATA.  So that should be interesting to see the SQ effect.
  
 No the AOIP AES67 Rednet Dante uses a different protocol from the Startech/ICRON GB LAN Ethernet USB Extender - they are not directly compatible.  The Rednet uses RTPIP and the Startech TCPIP.  The Rednet Dante AOIP is now AES67 compatible - but the Satrtech is not.
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_Transport_Protocol


----------



## rb2013

steklo said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> how much is the influence of the computer providing the audio stream into your USB chain? Does it have to be a highly optimized audio computer or does your USB strategy lift any computer's USB out to that stellar level you are reporting?
> 
> ...


 

 Somewhat - I did notice a small improvement moving my music server (just a plan ACER WIN10 iCore 7 Haswell box bought at Costco - with a Seasonic fanless high PSRR PS and some El Fidelity SATA filters.) moving the OS to a SSD from a HDD.  A bigger improvement from running Fideilizer Pro in Purist mode.  The Fidelizer does the optimization.
  
 The USB Ultra chain should improve any system - but the level to which you may appreciate the benefits will of course depend on what comes down stream.  I'd say a highly resolving system maybe needed to experience much of what I have described.


----------



## rb2013

narayan23 said:


> Hi Rob, the Sbooster guys are coming out with the Vbus3:  https://www.sbooster.com/vbus3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey thanks for the tipoff on the new Vbus3 - I will look at that closer.
  
 The Vbus2 was just a +5VDC VBUS blocker -the JB does some noise filtering (impedance changes?) on the PC USB bus.  So they do differ.  I notice a very subtle warming of the sound signature with the JB's.  With the amazing resolution and detail - this I felt was welcome - but may be a personal taste preference.  I tend to like a denser, warmer tonal signature.
  
 The mods I do to the JB come at the send end  - so the JB receives USB power and still functions as original.  I have to say I did notice, again very subtle, a reduction in 'grain' with the VBUS blocker mod.
  
 It would be great if AQ offered a VBUS blocker version of the JB.
  
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-jitterbug-usb-noise-filter#KD2QT6B5CB65jWq5.97
 http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/916-audioquest-jitterbug-usb-noise-filter
 http://descoav.com/the-absolute-sound-2016-editors-choice/
  


> _“This little device looks like a miniature plug-in DAC, but actually fits between a DAC or USB cable and a USB jack on a computer, DAC, or music server. Its mission is to reduce jitter and isolate the computer from the DAC. Judging from its sonic effects, the JiterBug does just that, offering a smoother treble, deeper soundstage, and more relaxed and natural presentation. A no-brainer recommendation for the asking price.” – The Absolute Sound​_


----------



## joelha

rb2013 said:


> There should be no issue on running WIN10 from the 32GB SLC SD - other then the size of the drive.  Speed wise - a lot will depend on the amount of RAM your server has.  I would say 12GB min, the more the better.
> 
> If you read my posts on the PNY 120GB SSD I use to run the OS - it has a SLC buffer up to 2-3GB.  The PNY 256GB has a SLC buffer of approx 30GB.  I have a cable coming to power the PNY SSD externally by LPS - not off the MB SATA.  So that should be interesting to see the SQ effect.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great information, Rob. Thanks a lot for that.
  
 I didn't know there could be an SLC portion to an SSD or USB flash drive.
  
 How can you determine when a drive has the SLC portion? Is there a marking or technical indication?
  
 Have you ever played with cFast drives? I have one. I'm wondering if I should try an option like that.
  
 And also, if an OS is copied to these drives, the data goes to the SLC portion first?
  
 Finally, which drive would you recommend for running an OS to get the maximum sonic benefit?
  
 Thanks again.
  
 Joel


----------



## rb2013

joelha said:


> Great information, Rob. Thanks a lot for that.
> 
> I didn't know there could be an SLC portion to an SSD or USB flash drive.
> 
> ...


 

 I didn't know that SSD'd have SLC caches either.  What I love about this thread and why I blog - someone knowledgeable says - 'Hey what about SLC drives/cards'  Hats off to you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





And it gets me thinking.

 Anyway go back to page 15 - posts #211 and #212.  I have the article links on the PNY drives and the speed tests.  When using the SLC cache (before they saturate) the transfer speeds are 400% greater.  The test they did (write a 30GB video file) clearly show when the SLC cache is full on both the PNY 120GB SSD and the PNY 256GB.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/829639/usb-strikes-back-watch-out-aoip-usb-ethernet-chain-beats-all-at-least-for-me/210#post_13147778
  
 Have not tried a cFAST drive.  But with the SLC portion transfer speeds of a inexpensive SSD - not sure more speed is really needed.
  
 Yes the SLC cache is always used first until it saturates then the drive algorithm moves to the TLC portion.  So the OS would be always in the SLC - assuming a striped down (extraneous apps removed - Fidelizer or Audio Optimizer used).  And lot s of RAM - making virtual disk RAM not necessary.  Certainly the larger PNY 256GB with approx 30GB of SLC cache.
  
 The ease of external powering of the SATA SSD is also - possibly -important.  Just a $6 cable and a 5VDC LPS.  This is different then PCIe which would require a more expensive ext case.  Moving the SSD power away from the MB/CPU - even one powerd by it's own LPS may have SQ benefits.  It's certainly cheaper then a large LPS to power the music server, or going with a low processing power CPU with small amount of DD3 RAM.
  
 Edit correction:  The test for the larger PNY was a 480GB not 256GB.


----------



## rb2013

I ordered a SLC/MLC faster PNY SSD today should be here in a week.  Curious to see if there is any SQ difference.
  
 PNY CS2211 240GB:
  
 http://www.anandtech.com/show/10234/the-pny-cs1311-and-cs2211-ssd-review-mlc-vs-tlc-at-15nm/10


----------



## rb2013

Interesting quote on this Jitterbug review:
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-jitterbug-usb-data-power-noise-filter#x7r97chh6GDAfgru.97


> The company also recommends sticking a JitterBug in any unused USB input residing on your networked audio system. This includes any NAS, router, or network player/streamer that has an unused USB port. The reason for this, the company explains, is because these unused USB ports act as tiny antennas sucking in radiated EMI and RFI which can then hop a ride on your network-attached data cables causing the aforementioned unwanted noise currents, etc. The company adds, "...the bus itself is generating all of this noise, thus polluting the device."​ Read more at http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-jitterbug-usb-data-power-noise-filter#vCJySqGXE88iADqc.99​


----------



## 2bxfile

Greetings: 
  
 Received an F-1 a few days ago and today when clicking to the next track it started to stutter immediately after entering - as though it was trying to continue but couldn't and was stuck with that accompanying odd sound.  I had to shut down Foobar to stop it.
  
 Does this event sound like the F-1; the external hard drive it was feeding off or the computer?
  
 When I listen to Foobar play the tracks one after the other I have had no problems up to now, only this time and only when I manually selected the next track.
  
 Thanks for any feedback,
  
 p.s. I don't know if this is connected to the above event or not, but the first day in one of the tracks there was a split second pause then immediately resumed play; then another day I had a couple of flutters in two different tracks only lasting a split second.


----------



## slex

rb2013 said:


> Interesting quote on this Jitterbug review:
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-jitterbug-usb-data-power-noise-filter#x7r97chh6GDAfgru.97



I just stuck usb elastomer stopper to those unused usb ports.


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> I just stuck usb elastomer stopper to those unused usb ports.


 

 Good solution


----------



## rb2013

2bxfile said:


> Greetings:
> 
> Received an F-1 a few days ago and today when clicking to the next track it started to stutter immediately after entering - as though it was trying to continue but couldn't and was stuck with that accompanying odd sound.  I had to shut down Foobar to stop it.
> 
> ...


 

 Increase your Foobar Buffer - run off ASIO


----------



## 2bxfile

Done.  Thanks.


----------



## colour97

still waiting for startech. and need to get ready for the LPS. Below is layout.
  
 Fanless pc (power : 6A, 12V) (need LPS)
  
 cable : Split USB Cable  (need LPS)
  
 to 
  
 STARTECH  LEX (power : 1A,  24DC)(need LPS)
  
 cable: lan cable
  
 to STARTECH REX (power : 1A,  24DC)(need LPS)
  
 Split USB Cable  (need LPS) 
  
 here, would use Holo Audio Titanis USB Turbo 
  
 Singxer F1
  
 to 
  
 DAC
  
 1. this layout needs 5 LPS,  any one box solution suggestion? Otherwise 5 power cords need to spend lot of money.
  
 2. is the voltage fighure correct?
  
 thank you very much.


----------



## roman410

rb2013 said:


> Well why the mR? Seems unnecessary, unless your player needs it. The Ultra chain is already pretty convoluted. But maybe it's a super synergy?
> 
> It should work as the Startech/Icron just appear as a USB hub, even though it's tcpip Ethernet.


 
 Way mR? In my case for convenience, simplicity, music quality and on the end synergy.
 Convenience: mR replaced my squeezebox touch with this settings(http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.com/), applying  them was nightmare form my. Also the system was nonstable. mR let my
                      continue using SqueezeLite with Logitech Squeezebox Controller remote control app I used before, ,playback of local radio stations and streaming service, easy to control thru 
                       webbrowser. Also I moved my noisy laptop from listening position.
           
  
 Simplicity:    My previous chain was too long, full of USB gizmos( regen, Intona ), batteries supply, usb wires etc.
  
 Music Quality: This is so subjective. I never heard  another head-fier system. My reference point is $100 cd player connected to my DAC. This computer chain it is miles ahead from cd player.
                        Just listening Vangelis-Opera Sauvage, on the song Flamants Roses the harph sound so natural, with bounced sound from left to right, on the circles. Never heard that type of
                         soundstage on this record. All of this old records are full of inperfections, tiks, squeeze noises, low level noises everithyng come to surface.  
  
 Synergy: In my case YES
 Sorry for my broken english, english it is not my nature language.


----------



## joelha

At present, I'm using a hybrid of Rob's approach.

As I'm using Infinity Blade, my files are first copying to a microSD SLC card before playing.

This and a hard drive are plugged into a Startech extender.

I realize this may not be ideal sonically, so I'll want to compare this solution to replacing the hard drive with a flash drive.

Obviously, I'll be sacrificing a lot of storage in making that swap.

In the meantime, the current setup is wonderful.

Thanks again for that, Rob.

Joel


----------



## slex

rb2013 said:


> Good solution



Yeah i figure kinda waste sticking JB etc...into it Unless you stick the stopper to them.


----------



## lazz

Hi guys, I'm from Australia and was wondering if someone could recommend the cheapest place to purchase the Startech. Obviously would need shipping to Australia. Would love to try this in my system. Thx.


----------



## colour97

amazon is out of stock
 newegg is the cheapest but it does not offer international shipment.
 i tried taobao but this item is very rare , not popular.
  
 the only way - ebay and accept the  snail and turtle speed global Priority shipment.


----------



## rb2013

colour97 said:


> still waiting for startech. and need to get ready for the LPS. Below is layout.
> 
> Fanless pc (power : 6A, 12V) (need LPS)
> 
> ...


 
 Welcome aboard the Ultra USB train!
  
 The Startech LEX needs 5VDC not 24VDC.  That makes it much easier to find a LPS.
  
 Here is what I use:
 PC Seasonic Fanless High PSRR SMPS.  This currently powers the MB/CPU and the one SATA SSD for the OS.  I have a cable arriving soon to power the SSD from an ext LPS.  So then only the PC will be on the Seasonic.  It has it's own AC line isolation and filter unit.
  
 The LEX is powered by a modded TeraDak X1/X2.  This has two DC outputs one set at 5VDC(USB) and one adjustable that I will set at 5VDC also (DC plug) - one now on the LEX the second soon to power the SSD for the OS
 The REX is powered by a MEIYAN ultra low noise 24VDC LPS
 The Recovery (then to a iPur2 then to the F-1) is powered by a modded TeraDak DC-30W with a DC iPurifer.
  
 So just three LPS's needed.
  
 All this is spelled out on the opening page of this thread - worth a read.  Post #7 goes into detail on the LPS's.
  
 For more info on LPS's I have these three threads that go into detail on which transformer, regulation scheme and caps, etc... are best:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/821621/audio-power-supplies-part-1-smps-lps-supercap-battery-diy-route-new-devices-opens-up-new-options
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/821731/audio-power-supplies-part-2-smps-lps-supercap-battery-diy-route-new-devices-opens-up-new-options
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/822160/audio-power-supplies-part3-smps-lps-supercap-battery-diy-route-new-devices-opens-up-new-options


----------



## rb2013

roman410 said:


> Way mR? In my case for convenience, simplicity, music quality and on the end synergy.
> Convenience: mR replaced my squeezebox touch with this settings(http://touchsgotrythm.blogspot.com/), applying  them was nightmare form my. Also the system was nonstable. mR let my
> continue using SqueezeLite with Logitech Squeezebox Controller remote control app I used before, ,playback of local radio stations and streaming service, easy to control thru
> webbrowser. Also I moved my noisy laptop from listening position.
> ...


 
 I see - well that makes sense to keep the mR then.
  
 Well if you are adverse to USB Gizmos and more wires - this path may not be best for you.  I'm indifferent - SQ is all that matter - aside from having to build a Cyclotron. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I just heard back from a friend of mine with a really nice system (Eidilon Diamonds/YG speakers - VAC tube pre and amp - PS Audio Direct Stream DAC - OR5 DDC, etc...)  I will be bringing my entire digital chain there for a weekend of critical listening.  With my DAC and then just the Ultra USB chain feeding his DAC by SPDIF vs the OR5 by i2s.
  
 I did this over a year ago - but with the Breeze DU-U8 by SPDIF - it was close but the consensus was the OR5 by i2s was better.  My digital chain has improved so much since then - I'm sure he will be impressed!


----------



## rb2013

joelha said:


> At present, I'm using a hybrid of Rob's approach.
> 
> As I'm using Infinity Blade, my files are first copying to a microSD SLC card before playing.
> 
> ...


 
 Nice Joel!
  
 Any suggestions on setting up a virtual RAM disk on one of these devices to run the music files from a buffer?  How's the latency on the IB set-up?
  
 Last night did a SLC vs MLC shootout.  Several quiet evening hours going back and forth.  I loaded 6 favorite tracks from different genres and artists - new and old - on each device.  Then built a custom Foobar playlist - with each track in sequential order from each device.  I could then just flip back and forth with my remote.  Same track three different devices.  First time the whole track - then a few more times just the first few minutes.  But this gave me an immediate comparison on the fly.
  
 Here are the three devices - ALL plugged into the Startech REX:
  
 Apacer MicroSD SLC 256MB   
 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/apacer-memory-america/AP-MSD256ISI-1T/1582-1117-ND/5268820
  
 ATP Electronics USB Flashdrive SLC 1GB  
 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/atp-electronics-inc/AF1GUFNDNC(I)-OEM/AF1GUFNDNC(I)-OEM-ND/5022275
  
 PNY USB Flashdrive 256GB (Boy did BB raise the price on these!  I paid $50 each - then got a 20% off discount -so $120 for all Three)
 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/pny-turbo-256gb-usb-3-0-flash-drive-black-gray/8052124.p?skuId=8052124&ref=212&loc=1&ksid=e6fca678-2812-43a0-938c-455f0c002001&ksprof_id=8&ksaffcode=pg199136&ksdevice=c&lsft=ref:212,loc:2
  
 The SLC's have about 50 hours on them.  What blew me away - they all sounded a bit different.  
  
 So here were my preferences:
  
 Definitely the standout was the ATP SLC USB, my preferred on 6 of the 6 tracks.  Not huge but definitely better.  Greater bass depth and even greater clarity and detail.
  
 On four of those six tracks I slightly preferred the MicroSD SLC - on one it was a sort of draw with the PNY USB. On one track I preferred the PNY over the MicroSD SLC.
  
 The Micro SD SLC has a warmer presentation - but a bit of 'hollowness' in the center of the sound stage.
  
 The ATP SLC USB had the best dynamics as well.  Now this is on top of really amazing dynamics to begin with.
  
 After a few hours of this A/Bing I moved on to just listening to my music off the PNY storage.  I never felt I was missing anything or was let down - it's only in direct comparison did I notice.
  
 I sure wish the REX had 5 USB slots instead of 4!  I would like to have a 4GB USB SLC there for just those nights I want to do super critical listening.  
  
 I'm considering buying a 4GB SLC for that purpose.  Digikey has these two 4GB SLC USB Flashdrives:
 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/atp-electronics-inc/AF4GUFNDNC(I)-OEM/AF4GUFNDNC(I)-OEM-ND/5022309
 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/swissbit/SFU24096E3BP2TO-I-DT-121-STD/1052-1180-ND/4805949
  
 The ATP is slower but cheaper - $59.46 21MB/s Read speed
 The Swissbit is $79.42 32MB/s Read speed.


----------



## joelha

rb2013 said:


> Nice Joel!
> 
> Any suggestions on setting up a virtual RAM disk on one of these devices to run the music files from a buffer?  How's the latency on the IB set-up?
> 
> ...


 
 Rob,
  
 I'll try to answer your questions as best I can and best as I understand them.
  
 Infinity Blade provides it's own automatic copy function for copying the selected music files to the microSD device.
  
 As for virtual RAM, I don't know how to set that up and I'm not sure how the program would process it.
  
 Great information on your impressions of the various drives by the way. Thanks for posting that information.
  
 While I know this thread is about the USB implementation you've told us all about, I'll just include this one editorial.
  
 I've used JRiver, HQPlayer, Amarra, WTFPlay, Squeezebox player, and other players as well. Nothing I've used is as enjoyable as Infinity Blade.
  
 There is intensive processing involved. The program itself probably takes about 20 seconds or more to open. And a redbook album can take, depending on your hardware and microSD (the microSD is not required by the way), about a minute to copy over . . . and maybe longer.
  
 Still, the result is stunning. You'll have to hear it yourself to appreciate what digital can sound like. Some have forsaken their turntables for this player if that tells you anything.
  
 The thread on this player can be found on the JPlay forums. Currently there are almost 4,000 posts.
  
 Joel


----------



## Adosero

rb2013 said:


> Welcome aboard the Ultra USB train!
> 
> The Startech LEX needs 5VDC not 24VDC.  That makes it much easier to find a LPS.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Rob,
 What SSD power cable did you order? Thanks..


----------



## rb2013

joelha said:


> Rob,
> 
> I'll try to answer your questions as best I can and best as I understand them.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks I will check that out.  My simple solution with a 4GB USB SLC - would be to just copy over the albums I would listen to that evening.  Then create a custom playlist (takes like 30 seconds in Foobar).  A 4GB would hold 7-8 Redbook albums.
  
 Don't think I would want to do the Bughead/Blade player solution.  I do like to 'click' past some tracks with my remote.  Sounds like that latency would be a bit fustrating for me.
  
 So far the latency on playing off the REX USB's is quite low.


----------



## rb2013

adosero said:


> Hi Rob,
> What SSD power cable did you order? Thanks..


 

 There are many out there - but this was the cheapest -
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/221446206429?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Spark85

rb2013 said:


> spark85 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello again rb2013.
> ...


 
 Thank you for replying so quickly.
  
 I think I will be encouraged to buy Startech. Having the U12, Yellowtec and SU-1, I rely on your appreciations.
 By the way, any news about the new USB device you talked about? I suppose it will be a combination between a connection between a USB interface and a complete galvanic isolator.
  
 In fact, a big problem are the equipment ground, but on the other hand are absolutely necessary for safety and good operation.
  
 I at some point try to avoid removing the shielding of the USB output cable from the PC.
 I have achieved very good results simply by changing the polarity between phase and neutral of the plugs and it is free. I advise everyone to try it.

 In my case, I have a Furman AC-210 E filter and a balanced power supply of Airlink transformers, it's not too expensive. And in the DAC and headphone amplifier with switched power supplies, I am using several DC Purifier with good results.
  
 For if it is also of interest, for a mistake I made a short circuit with a DC Purifier and it broke, but I disassembled it and I could repair it. I also have some photo of her inside.

 There are several models of virtual lands, some are based on minerals such as tourmaline. I have not tried any of them, but they could be an option.

 Here you have the photos of the SU-1 with the Nano IUSB 3.0. Consumption is quite low in both ports.
  
 A greeting.


----------



## rb2013

spark85 said:


> Thank you for replying so quickly.
> 
> I think I will be encouraged to buy Startech. Having the U12, Yellowtec and SU-1, I rely on your appreciations.
> By the way, any news about the new USB device you talked about? I suppose it will be a combination between a connection between a USB interface and a complete galvanic isolator.
> ...


 

 That is awesome - removed the medicore built in supply and replace with iUSB 3.0 Nano - fed by ext LPS.  So the SU-1 just needed a +5 VDC connection?  Or are you running a separate 3.3VDC line?
  
 Yes please post the DC iPur board photos.
  
 I use a Audience R1p AC line balancer and filter at the wall - before the separate common and differential mode AC line isolators and filters.


----------



## Spark85

Thank you. It is also interesting to know what you use for power conditioning.
  
 Indeed, it only has a 5V input. The SU-1 board has only two internal connectors, which powers the front LEDs and the 5V input. The 3.3 volts of having them will generate them internally.
  

 One of the times I shorted and broke down and since I had nothing to lose, I tried to repair it. It is sealed with epoxy but I could remove it and see the fault. I think what burned was a resistance and I replaced it with a weld. Probe its operation with an oscilloscope and luckily I was able to measure a quantity of noise similar to another that I have well.
  
 This device so intuition (you can measure continuity with a polymeter between the output and input) must create as advertising from the manufacturer says, an oscillation out of phase at its output according to input noise. Curiously I have been able to appreciate with an oscilloscope, as it takes a second or two to reduce the noise since the voltage enters its input. At least it is what I have been able to appreciate.
 For this reason, I do not know to what extent, it could adapt to a noise that was not constant in frequency.
  



  
  
 The central weld that can be seen, is where the burned component was. Sometimes resistors as a fuse are used, but I'm not sure that this was the case.
  
  


  
  
  
 I have also used them to filter out negative voltages, such as - + 18V
  

  




  
  
  
 A greeting.


----------



## joelha

I've done a little more research tonight.

 i was curious as to whether I am paying a sonic penalty by using a standard hard drive on my Startech extender vs. a flash drive for storage.
  
 The answer is no. Now realize that I have an Uptone JS-2 powering the hard drive which certainly could be making the drive less of an issue vs. a flash drive.
  
 And each of the Extenders is powered by Sbooster power supplies as well.
  
 Finally, I tried Audioquest Jitterbugs on the port of the PC in which the Extender is plugged in as well as for the hard drive and microSD flash drive USB adapter.
  
 Granted they hadn't been used in a while, but I was surprised that they brightened the sound. Maybe they do need break-in before I can make a more informed decision.
  
 In any event, for whatever it's worth, that's what I discovered tonight.
  
 Joel


----------



## rb2013

spark85 said:


> Thank you. It is also interesting to know what you use for power conditioning.
> 
> Indeed, it only has a 5V input. The SU-1 board has only two internal connectors, which powers the front LEDs and the 5V input. The 3.3 volts of having them will generate them internally.
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting photos - thanks for sharing.  Were you able to measure the exact noise reduction with the Dc iPur?


----------



## rb2013

joelha said:


> I've done a little more research tonight.
> 
> i was curious as to whether I am paying a sonic penalty by using a standard hard drive on my Startech extender vs. a flash drive for storage.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Joel - And I had the exact opposite experience both for the USB in the REX vs HDD and the JB's - just goes to show you YMMV!
  
 Cheers
  
 PS Toobad the JS-2 can't power the REX - that would be interesting.  I believe 12VDC is the max for one of it's outputs - the REX uses 24VDC.


----------



## rb2013

That cable to power my SSD drive by external LPS did not work.  The data part does not fit in the MB SATA slot - must be for an ext SSD drive only.
  
 So I just ordered this one:
  
 https://www.moddiy.com/products/USB-to-2.5-SSD-5%252dPin-SATA-Power-Adapter-Cable-(20cm).html?gclid=CK_U3OrfvdECFYOTfgodBLoLyA
  
 It's a SATA to USB power only cable - so I can use the regular SATA data cable from the MB slot.


----------



## Adosero

For powering my ssd's I'm simply cutting the edges of an unused usb cable and a sata power cable and putting together the reds and the blacks..


----------



## Mr Underhill

Hi Bob,
  
 The Meiyan isn't available via ebay.co.uk, and the seller on ebay.com is off until the 8th Feb.
  
 What ampage is needed? Thought I saw 0.6A but can't find it now. My choice seems to be between the TeraDak DC-30W 24V/1A & a Talema based 24v/0.6A.
  
 Cheers,
  
 M


----------



## rb2013

adosero said:


> For powering my ssd's I'm simply cutting the edges of an unused usb cable and a sata power cable and putting together the reds and the blacks..


 
 That would work - notice any SQ difference?
  


mr underhill said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> The Meiyan isn't available via ebay.co.uk, and the seller on ebay.com is off until the 8th Feb.
> 
> ...


 
 I would go with the TeraDak DC-30W then.  It has the better R-core transformer.  1A should be enough if your DDC/DAC even if your DDC or DAC draws current from the USB port on the REX.  If not then of course either would have enough current.
  
 The MEIYAN puts out 3.3A @24VDC - way overkill.  But it has a nice low noise MOSFET discrete regulation circuit.
  
 Here is another cheaper alternative - the Breeze Audio LT1083 based R-core
 Something like this:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/30VA-LPS-DC-9V-3A-Linear-Power-Supply-psu-option-12V-15V-18V-24V-for-AMP-HiFi-/131861257445?hash=item1eb38b1ce5
  
 It worked pretty good - the MEIYAN is better.  13uv of noise vs 180uv for the LT1083. I also tried the DC iPur on the 24VDC Breeze and it got very hot - then the voltage would flucuate.  24VDC is the high end voltage limit for the DC iPur - I immediately removed it and went to the MEIYAN.
  
 Interesting I bought this LT3042 board to drop into that Breeze - it works for around 20 minutes then shut down.  The Breeze has a 12V R-core - the seller on the LT3042 says that's the limit for that board - so I have a 9V RCore coming to replace it.  Like the DC iPur - best not to push these LPS's to their limit.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/142115498378?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 The LT3042 has 0.8uv of noise.  Plan on trying to power the F-1 without the Recovery to see - if not may use it in my office system or on the LEX.


----------



## Adosero

It's definitely better with a dedicated LPSU on my system.


----------



## joelha

While I may regret embarking on this project, where can I go to get the easiest instructions on how to install and run Windies 10 from a USB, Compact, or A microSD flash drive?

Joel


----------



## rb2013

joelha said:


> While I may regret embarking on this project, where can I go to get the easiest instructions on how to install and run Windies 10 from a USB, Compact, or A microSD flash drive?
> 
> Joel


Microsoft. You'll have to do a fresh install.


----------



## rb2013

BTW New version of WIN10 now supports native USB 2.0 Audio.

Finally!

Anybody try it to compare to the XMOS ASIO drivers?


----------



## slex

My cheap solution USB strips.


----------



## Ikemen

rb2013 said:


> BTW New version of WIN10 now supports native USB 2.0 Audio.
> 
> Finally!
> 
> Anybody try it to compare to the XMOS ASIO drivers?




Is that version 1607? I see no mention on the update history of MS website. What is the driver called - USB Audio 2.0?


----------



## Mr Underhill

rb2013 said:


> Here is another cheaper alternative - the Breeze Audio LT1083 based R-core
> Something like this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/30VA-LPS-DC-9V-3A-Linear-Power-Supply-psu-option-12V-15V-18V-24V-for-AMP-HiFi-/131861257445?hash=item1eb38b1ce5


 
  
 Ordered this.
  
 I have been using the StarTech with the SMPS and 128GB USB, into the Audio Breeze DU-U8; awaiting the replacement F1.
  
 Been a bit of a roller coaster ride. The IFU iP2 initially seemed to add space. The StarTech didn't seem to change anything. Over the next couple of days the sound hardened and sharpened. Last night the character had changed, most edge just wasn't there. The bass seemed better defined from the USB than direct from the NAS. All incremental stuff, but for those of us with this form of OCD nice to have. Looking forward to adding the PSUs & F1 and hearing what that brings.
  
*M*


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> Ordered this.
> 
> I have been using the StarTech with the SMPS and 128GB USB, into the Audio Breeze DU-U8; awaiting the replacement F1.
> 
> ...


Interesting perspective with the DU-U8 and the Startech.

I would recommend the $29 Blue Jean Cable cat6 550Mhz Ethernet cable, that was a standout from the half dozen Cat6 and Cat5e cables.

It will be interesting to see your take on the SQ effects on the F-1 and LPS.


----------



## Spark85

rb2013 said:


> Interesting photos - thanks for sharing.  Were you able to measure the exact noise reduction with the Dc iPur?


 
  
 Hello
  
 I do not remember the concrete measures, but I can say that the noise reduction is important. Similar to I gotta measure in ipower, when I was visualizing it on the oscilloscope.
 I also do not have the most suitable equipment to be able to make very accurate measurements and make informed conclusions.
  
 In the end I have decided and I have requested a USB2G4LEXT2, I will comment. For now, it has been good for me to trust your opinions


----------



## rb2013

ikemen said:


> Is that version 1607? I see no mention on the update history of MS website. What is the driver called - USB Audio 2.0?



See the Headfi thread on WIN10 USB 2.0 Audio Native Support

http://www.head-fi.org/t/818899/windows-10-finally-getting-native-usb-2-audio-support


----------



## rb2013

spark85 said:


> Hello
> 
> I do not remember the concrete measures, but I can say that the noise reduction is important. Similar to I gotta measure in ipower, when I was visualizing it on the oscilloscope.
> I also do not have the most suitable equipment to be able to make very accurate measurements and make informed conclusions.
> ...


Good deal. Yes these ultra low noise measurements need fairly senstive equipment.

It'll be interesting to get get your take on the Startech


----------



## colour97

ups guy gave me a call, i will rec my startech 3hrs later. cool!


----------



## lazz

Wondering if anyone has compared the Startech to the Icron?


----------



## colour97

successfully power on and running.

device is made in canada. metal body,
handfeel very solid.

i have a question , if i want to diy 
dc cable for 24v , what size of the inlet i need to buy?


----------



## rb2013

lazz said:


> Wondering if anyone has compared the Startech to the Icron?


 

 Not yet - at least not posted about it.  I haven't


----------



## rb2013

colour97 said:


> successfully power on and running.
> 
> device is made in canada. metal body,
> handfeel very solid.
> ...


 
 Nice
  
 I upgraded my MEIYAN to REX with this cable: very nice cable - very reasonable price.  I ordered the 2.1mm DC end and it works great.  Also available as a 2.5mm
  
 Teddy Pardo Silver:
 https://www.teddypardo.com/cables/misc-cables.html


----------



## rb2013

Here is an interesting thread I was reading over the weekend.  Ok you may need a computer science degree to set this up - and maybe a audiophile Masters to follow most of this - but...
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/novel-way-massively-improve-sq-sms-200-and-microrendu-31110/
  
 A few takeaways:
  
  >Ethernet can provide a better digital source solution.
  
 >After rolling through a few thousand dollars of Ethernet cables  - he uses the Blue Jeans Cable CAT6a 500Mhz ($29)  that I have recommended in a few of the many Ethernet connections.  Like I said this is a 'must try' in the Startech/Icron link.
  
 >Third - power supplies matter!  The better the power supply likely the better the results.  AC isolation, balancing and filtering important as well.  Now he goes to the extreme (dedicated 20A AC line for the 5 LPS's - and a 15A non-dedicated line for any SMPS) - powering the mR chain with a Paul Hynes SR7 and I believe 3 Uptone LPS-1's.  About $3000 worth of LPS's - his comments:


> *A novel way to massively improve the SQ of the sMS-200 and microRendu *


 


> Ok, MASSIVE is a bit of an overstatement at this level of high-end audio but now that I have your attention, I would say that this improvement is quite significant, nonetheless, and once you hear it, I suspect you will not wish to go back to your previous setup. More importantly, *this is neither difficult nor expensive to implement*.​ (My comment -HA!)


 
  
 No doubting his statement below that the Hynes $1200 SR7 - is better then the $150 TeraDak DC-30W (what no DC iPur as a companion to the DC-30!) and the $400 HDPlex.  Well the DC-30W has approx 20uv of noise (newer MOSFET design) and the HDplex has 180uv of noise.  He doesn't give the SR7's noise levels - but I believe they are around 30uv.  The key on the SR7 as he points out is it's very low impedance.  And how important low impedance is for a LPS for SQ (the reason I replaced the PS caps in both my TeraDaks to low impedance Nichicon HW's (and high PSRR)).
 Not sure the impedance levels on the TeraDak's.  Is the 'magic' of the DC iPur - a lowering DC output impedance?  Recovery the same? iPur2??
  


> What is the measured output impedance of the Paul Hynes SR7? According to Paul, his SR5 and SR7 measure <3 millohms from DC to 100kHz and so consider this number as a reference point for comparison. Having asked around, it seems no one else can provide these impedance measurements over what John Swenson describes to be his ideal frequency range either because they don't own the measuring equipment to do so or because they don't believe this spec is important.​


 
  


> What I can tell you is that neither my HDPlex or Teradak are low impedance LPSUs because neither of these units are good enough to allow me to distinguish one source from another when fronted by either the microRendu or sMS-200 and both are soundly trounced by my​LPS-1 and my SR7 when it comes to soundstage dimensionality.​


 
 Interesting comment on the Rednet AOIP and it's SMPS - something I have been commenting on for quite some time here and on my AOIP Rednet thread:
  


> Many of you are aware of the claims many are making on several threads here on​CAbut also on HeadFi of how RedNet and Dante provides this "you are there" clarity. I had a ReNet 3 in my home for evaluation for nearly a month and I agree, it provides this beguiling sense of clarity that has to be heard to be appreciated although the problem with RedNet, I believe, is its inferior switching​PSU. These units sound flat and dimensionless compared to my described setup above and so this clarity that RedNet brings almost sounds sterile and lifeless in comparison.​


 
  
 Maybe he should ditch the mR and try a F-1 based 'Ultra' USB chain!  No need for $3000 in LPS's alone?
  
 Value of music storage out of the PC - his solution is only another $3000! 


> I am finding better SQ (smoother with less edge) from a single 4TB Samsung​SSDconnected to a Thunderbolt hub that also houses a DVD-ROM that I use to rip my CDs. The hub is connected directly to my Mac Mini using a Synergistic Research Active SE Thunderbolt cable and it is this cable that is responsible for the smoother and less edgy SQ. I have compared several Thunderbolt cables including Corning's optical Thunderbolt cable which I was sure would sound best but interestingly, while it sounds very detailed, there is an unpleasant grain. This Thunderbolt hub (12V) is currently being powered independently by my now repurposed HDPlex. I am afraid to try the SR7 on this hub because I am afraid there will be an improvement and I will be forced to consider the purchase of another Paul Hynes supply. Thus far, anything I have connected my SR7 to has been improved by it.​


 
  
 AND If anybody thinks my 'Ultra' USB chain is convoluted - you have to read some of these microRendu DNLA Ethernet chains!
  
 Like this one:
  

  
 Or computer set-up commands like these!  I'll take USB over DNLA/UpNP any day!!


> OK, so my network's gateway address is 192.18.0.2. My​NAS(unbridged) has a static IP of 192.168.0.240. I allocated another static address 192.168.0.241 for my 2nd port.​​ ​ Here are the commands I tried - exactly like the link you posted, with edits for my situation:​​ ​ Synology#​*insmod /lib/modules/stp.ko​*​ Synology#​*insmod /lib/modules/bridge.ko​*​ Synology#​*brctl addbr br0​*​ Synology#​*brctl stp br0 off​*​ Synology#​*ifconfig br0 192.168.0.240 netmask 255.255.255.0 up​*​ Synology#​*brctl addif br0 eth0​*​ Synology#​*brctl addif br0 eth1​*​ Synology#​*ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.240 promisc up​*​ Synology#​*ifconfig eth1 192.168.0.241 promisc up​*​ Synology#​*route add default gw 192.168.0.2 dev br0​*​ ​ Looking at this, I do have some questions:​
> is the IP address of the bridge interface (br0) supposed to the be the same as the eth0?
> What is the correct default gateway address?
> I didn't try bouncing br0 after this sequence - maybe I should have
> ​ ​ Thanks for any suggestions.​


----------



## lazz

RB, is this the Blue Jeans cable you are using between the Startech's? It says 500mhz. What length is best, 1 foot or much longer?
  
  

[size=1.3em]*[size=1.2em]Cat 6a Patch Cords--BJC C6AP*


 Bonded Pairs, Cat 6a, 500 MHz; Rated CMR for installation
 Every cable individually tested, with report[/size][size=1.3em]Length in feet[/size][size=1.3em]Color[/size][size=1.3em]Price[/size][size=1.3em][/size][size=1.3em]BlackWhiteGreenRedYellowOrangePurpleBrownGrey[/size][size=1.3em][/size][size=1.3em]​[/size][size=1.3em][/size][size=1.3em]
  [/size]
[/size]


----------



## Mr Underhill

For anyone interested in the BJ ethernet cables and based in the UK:
  
 The UK site doesn't include the network cables. I emailed them today. In fact everything is posted direct from the US, so just order from the US site.
  
*M*


----------



## rb2013

lazz said:


> RB, is this the Blue Jeans cable you are using between the Startech's? It says 500mhz. What length is best, 1 foot or much longer?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, whatever length you need. I bought a 2 foot length. Although only rated to 500Mhz, mine came measuring 550Mhz.


----------



## phile1

Hi, 
 I juste read the 1st 2 pages of this thrad, very interesting. I will read the following then, but I have questions :
 the LEX/REX use is fine, but can we get the same improvement with a Corning 3.0ptical ?
 => https://www.amazon.com/Optical-Cables-Corning-Cable-Meter/dp/B00JOJRF6K
 I use it withe a small stabilized PS at both ends and result is great ; and cheaper than REX/LEX combo....
  
 rb2013,
 you use the singxer F-1. What don't you use the SU-1 which is told to be better ?
 is the F-1 better than the SU-1 when you power the F-1 externally & properly (by cutting DC from the USB cable) ?
  
 thanks for the info
 & sorry is these points have already discussed in the thread (I go back to the reading !)
 Rgds


----------



## somestranger26

Sigh, pulled the trigger on the Startech. I had a $100 off voucher to use on ebay by the end of the month so it came out to $380. I will be hooking it up to my SU1 -> DirectStream office system and at some point will compare with my Rednet 3 -> Mutec digital chain.
  
 Question about the flash drive technique - will any old flash drive do, or must it be a "good" one like these SLC ones that have been discussed? I am frankly quite skeptical of any improvement from doing this so I want to spend the minimum amount possible to hear if it makes any difference.


----------



## colour97

burning in for 24hrs, with default power supply, startech is very very good. first thing impressed me is very dark background.

thank you rb2013 for your startech 
recommendation.

more impression will be coming up
when i rec su-1 and linear power .now is 24hrs burn-in. and will try usb installtion for windows / linux.


----------



## slex

Just checking, anyone sticking an ifi ipurifier 2 into Singxer F1 with good sonic result?


----------



## wakka992

slex said:


> Just checking, anyone sticking an ifi ipurifier 2 into Singxer F1 with good sonic result?


 
 I hope so... that's what I'm about to do as soon as I receive my Singxer X1.  Galvanic isolation for me is done by iFi SPDIF iPurifier, so I didn't bought the F1 on purpose.
  
 So my Uber-USB chain will be: PC --> iDefender (5v iFi iPower) --> iFi iPurifier 2 --> Singxer X1 --> iFi SPDIF iPurifier (5v iFi iPower).
  
 BTW, is the "300 femto seconds Global Master Timing" of the iFi SPDIF iPurifier any good? is it better or worse than the "femtosecond CRYSTEK custom clock" of the Singxer F1?


----------



## rb2013

phile1 said:


> Hi,
> I juste read the 1st 2 pages of this thrad, very interesting. I will read the following then, but I have questions :
> the LEX/REX use is fine, but can we get the same improvement with a Corning 3.0ptical ?
> => https://www.amazon.com/Optical-Cables-Corning-Cable-Meter/dp/B00JOJRF6K
> ...


 

 Hi - Great questions.  On the Corning Optical USB - the electro-optical converters are no where near a robust or sophisticated as the Startech.  Read the CA thread on the Corning - a lot of compatibility issues.  Some report good SQ improvements - but not like the Intona or the Startech/ICRON/LanRover.
  
 I have an issue with the lengths offered - why not something shorter then 30ft?  Ugg
  
 Look at the Corning scheme:

  
 As opposed to this:

  

  
 Another issue with the Corning is this (I quote from the CA Corning thread)
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/corning-optical-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cable-experiences-23437/index12.html


> The "problem" is that the Corning optical​USBcable is hybrid optical and electrical -- the proximal head is powered by the source​USBand sends power and ground down 28 g copper wires to power the distal head which recreates the​USBsignal -- hence no galvanic isolation between heads.​


 
 You see the Corning uses a copper ground/power wire in addition to the optical.  So defeats the USB GI.
  
 What does the Startech do?  Well it basically translates USB packets into TCPIP packets in the LEX with a powerful Xilinx SPARTAN 6 FPGA - and can be powered by an ext regulated LPS.  The data is then sent by a galvanically isolated UTP CAT6/a Ethernet cable.  At the receiving end you have the REX with another powerful SPARTAN 6 FPGA to do the TCPIP to USB packet translation.  Also with the ability to power by a ultra low noise LPS.  The TCPIP protocol has full error correction on the packets (unlike USB 2.0 Asyn Audio), with large buffers.  The entire USB data stream is recreated in the REX with high quality XO clocking (another reason that a higher quality LPS is important).
  
 I believe the 'magic' is in this packet translation - the reconstructed USB data chain is of higher signal integrity and with out loss of information after the long transmission to the REX.  More importantly the completely reconstructed USB data stream is recreated in a 'clean' environment away from the PC - both electrically and physically.
  
 Now the added benefit of the four port Startech and ICRON Ranger - is the ability to store and retrieve the music files also following the same reconstruction and isolation.  Something not possible with the Corning - without using multiple cables.
  
 As for the F-1 vs the SU-1 - I prefer the F-1 due to it's powering flexibility.  With the SU-1 you are left with only one PS choice - unless you mod the unit.  The F-1 by it's design is highly flexible.  and cheaper.
  
 That said I have a DIYinHK Pro3z coming soon to compare to the F-1.  XU216 vs XU208.  NDK SD clocks vs Crystek CCHD-575 clocks  - lower noise on board regulators.
  
 So that will be interesting.
  
 http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/111-xmos-192khz-high-quality-usb-to-spdif-with-ultralow-noise-1uv-regulator-wmanual-power-switch.html


----------



## rb2013

somestranger26 said:


> Sigh, pulled the trigger on the Startech. I had a $100 off voucher to use on ebay by the end of the month so it came out to $380. I will be hooking it up to my SU1 -> DirectStream office system and at some point will compare with my Rednet 3 -> Mutec digital chain.
> 
> Question about the flash drive technique - will any old flash drive do, or must it be a "good" one like these SLC ones that have been discussed? I am frankly quite skeptical of any improvement from doing this so I want to spend the minimum amount possible to hear if it makes any difference.


 
 Welcome aboard!  Well your comparison will be interesting - you need to power the two Startech boxes with regulated LPS's to get the full effect and to be competitve with the Rednet AOIP.  On the USB sticks - you can use any higher capacity 128GB or higher USB stick for good results.  But from my experiments the SLC MicroSD card (in a small USB adapter) or better a SLC USB stick make a very noticable difference.  But do to the lack of high capacity and price not good for storing a large music collection.
  
 One cheap solution - get a small capacity (say 4GB) SLC - then store the large collection on a big HDD.  Just transfer what you want to listen to to the SLC - play from there.  Be sure to put the HDD in sleep mode.
  
 I think my solution will be a 4GB SLC - and two 256GB PNY USB sticks (boy the prices sure went up at BestBuy on these! - I paid $43 each) in the three open ports.  I have finished burning in the MicroSD SLC card and the SLC USB stick and will do one last night of comparison to decided which.  I have small capacity ones now (256MB for the SLC card and 1GB for the SLC USB) - they were cheap.  The 256MB was like $14 and the 1GB was like $20.  A 4GB of either would be $60-$80.
  
 Down the road will upgrade the 256GB PNY's to 512GB (once the prices drop to under $60).  That will set me up for foreseeable future.
  


colour97 said:


> burning in for 24hrs, with default power supply, startech is very very good. first thing impressed me is very dark background.
> 
> thank you rb2013 for your startech
> recommendation.
> ...


 
 Nice!  Get the Blue Jeans Cable CAT6a if you don't have one already.
  


slex said:


> Just checking, anyone sticking an ifi ipurifier 2 into Singxer F1 with good sonic result?


 
 Yes - it's part of my 'Ultra' USB chain - see page 1.  For me absolutely necessary for best results.


----------



## phile1

rb2013 said:


> That said I have a DIYinHK Pro3z coming soon to compare to the F-1.  XU216 vs XU208.  NDK SD clocks vs Crystek CCHD-575 clocks  - lower noise on board regulators.
> 
> So that will be interesting.
> 
> http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/111-xmos-192khz-high-quality-usb-to-spdif-with-ultralow-noise-1uv-regulator-wmanual-power-switch.html


 
 You're waiting for it ! Lucky you because they run out of stock... and I just planned to test it.
 I sent them a mail to know about availability. I'll post the info whan I got it.
  
 This is the info I got from a guy on a french forum who's testing the F-1 vs the Pro3z :
 First : he did not test both according to the "rule". He tested the F-1 with power from the PC, and powered the Pro3z with an ifi power 5V. As power supply is critical, conclusion might not be definitive.
 His result is :
 - the Pro3z offers more clarity, more "air"; more définition than the F-1 ; but the Pro3z tends to lead to a more tiring listening over time.
 This is rough conclusion because the Pro3z was not completly burnt in.
  
 Let's wait for your own tests.
  
 Regarding your comments about the Corning 3.Optical, I'm not as strict as you are :
 ok, on CA forum some people faced reliabilty issue, that's old story now ; it was dure to a wrong batch. Mine works still perfectly after 3years...
 Regarding isolation with the Corning : 
 - if you use it as such, I'm OK, SQ can be slightly harsh.
 - to overcome this harshness (light), I use it that way :
 1. the Corning is basically a USB link (30ft in perfect for me) between PC & the USB>spdif interface.
 2. I cut the power from the PC at the 1st end, and power the Corning with a stabilized PS. By doing so, I give proper current to the end tip of the Corning the do the conversion optical>USB. This PS brings a lot & calm down the slight harshness
 3. also, I cut the current that leak from the Corning at the end tip (USB interface side), and provide clean power from another stabilized PS. I have to do so becasue the Breeze interface requires power for the handshake. This 2nd PS at end tip brings much less than the 1st one.
  
 That's jst to say that this Corning can be a very good cable.
 I trust you when you presents your great USB chain, for sure it is pretty efficient ; but the Corning can be another option, maybe less efficient, but less expensive & less tricky to implement.
  
 Rgds & thanks for your reply & your great inputs !


----------



## rb2013

wakka992 said:


> I hope so... that's what I'm about to do as soon as I receive my Singxer X1.  Galvanic isolation for me is done by iFi SPDIF iPurifier, so I didn't bought the F1 on purpose.
> 
> So my Uber-USB chain will be: PC --> iDefender (5v iFi iPower) --> iFi iPurifier 2 --> Singxer X1 --> iFi SPDIF iPurifier (5v iFi iPower).
> 
> BTW, is the "300 femto seconds Global Master Timing" of the iFi SPDIF iPurifier any good? is it better or worse than the "femtosecond CRYSTEK custom clock" of the Singxer F1?


 
 On the clocks - no comparison.  Would love to see phase noise specs on the iFi clock.  It looks like a XO to me - and only one clock - as opposed to the F-1 with separate clocks for the 48K ,96K ,192K, 384K and 44K, 88K, 176K, 352K frequencies like the F-1

  
 The F-1 Crystek CCHD-575 are proably the finest TCXO's made today.  The NDK SD are very good as well.

  

  Now I tried the iFi SPDIF and did not like it (YMMV) powering it the iPower on the F-1.  Added a edginess to the SQ.  I ran for about 100hrs and maybe needed more run time.  I had very good success with the W4S Remedy in the past (it uses the Crystek CCHD clock)


  But in the end preferred the F-1 without it.  It is not 'bit perfect' as it resamples everything to 96K (there way around using only one clock).
  
 I also had a Mutec MC-3+USB and it very good as a SPDIF reclocker - but never tried it on the 'Ultra; USB chain.  I believe @Mr Underhill had tried it and sold the Mutec.  It's not cheap and uses a built in SMPS


----------



## wakka992

rb2013 said:


> On the clocks - no comparison.  Would love to see phase noise specs on the iFi clock.  It looks like a XO to me - and only one clock - as opposed to the F-1 with separate clocks for the 48K ,96K ,192K, 384K and 44K, 88K, 176K, 352K frequencies like the F-1
> 
> .... ....
> 
> It is not 'bit perfect' as it resamples everything to 96K (there way around using only one clock).


 
 So the iFi SPDIF iPurifier is not bit perfect as It use only one clock? It doesn't have a separate clock for all frequencies?


----------



## rb2013

phile1 said:


> You're waiting for it ! Lucky you because they run out of stock... and I just planned to test it.
> I sent them a mail to know about availability. I'll post the info whan I got it.
> 
> This is the info I got from a guy on a french forum who's testing the F-1 vs the Pro3z :
> ...


 
 Good info.  In my insane quest for sonic nirvana - I had at one point planned to try the Corning Optical USB between the PC and the LEX.  But then read the issues you mentioned about 'harshness'
  
 See the comments I posted from that epic CA thread on post #304


> ...The hub is connected directly to my​Mac​Mini using a Synergistic Research Active SE Thunderbolt​cable​and it is this​cable​that is responsible for the smoother and less edgy SQ. I have compared several Thunderbolt​cables​including *Corning's optical Thunderbolt *​*cable​** which I was sure would sound best but interestingly, while it sounds very detailed, there is an unpleasant grain*...​


 
 BTW I use a Synergistic Research Element Copper active digital SPDIF RCA cable - and it is significant part of the SQ i'm getting from this digital chain.  I bought it a great price on Audiogon as a Demo - and it came with the new ECT modules and a Galileo MPC.  These cables are amazing (I have tried at least a dozen SPDIF digital SE cables).
  
 Now I believe those Corning electro-optical converters need +5VDC to work - so just cutting the power feed will kill the data link.  The F-1 does not need a power hand shake like the DU-U8.  You say you provide 'stabilized' PS - details?  regulated LPS? Discrete or IC based? SMPS?
  
 I had a Pro3a and it was pretty good - (see my rankings on page 1) basically the same design as the Pro3z but with XMOS U8 vs XU216.  I like the ability to power by ext.  The negative issue with the Pro3a/3z is the use of Murata electo-magnetic SPDIF isolation.  The F-1 uses a much more advanced CPLD.
  
  
 See the Murata DA101 right next to the SPDIF coax output.
  
  

 Note on the F-1 - no Murata or worse Pulse transformer.  The SPDIF (not USB) galvanic isolation is done by that large CPLD right in front of the SPDIF.  It is on the  'clean side' of the isolation wall (middle of the F-1) after the ADP150 regulators, just like the Crystek clocks :

  
 Every top DDC I have seen do not use these Electro-Mag Isolation transformers (note the dual Crystek CCHD clocks)
 Berkeley Audio:


 Hydra Z (also Crystek CCHD clocks):

  
 Tanly (also Crystek CCHD clocks):

  
 All the lower cost units like the Gustard, Melodious, Breeze use these transformers.
  
 I believe doing away with these electro-magnetic isolation transformers reduce the jitter on the SPDIF output and improve the SQ


----------



## rb2013

wakka992 said:


> So the iFi SPDIF iPurifier is not bit perfect as It use only one clock? It doesn't have a separate clock for all frequencies?


 

 I'm not sure - maybe they use some type of clock conversion.  they do not force resampling like the Remedy - that is where the non-bit perfect comes into play


----------



## wakka992

rb2013 said:


> I'm not sure - maybe they use some type of clock conversion.  they do not force resampling like the Remedy - that is where the non-bit perfect comes into play


 
 thanks @rb2013
  
 Last question: do you think Singxer F1 is harsh sounding? High resolution but dry sound?


----------



## rb2013

wakka992 said:


> thanks @rb2013
> 
> Last question: do you think Singxer F1 is harsh sounding? High resolution but dry sound?


 

 Not at all!  The warmest, richest most texturally dense tone I have yet to hear.  On that score rivals the best Moving Coil cartridges - like the ones I had Benz Ebony LP and Dynavestor XV1S.  But with an ink black background that no MC could match.
  
 And I consider my self a 'Tone-head' (you're talking to a guy who spent 10yrs developing a near sota Analog system - and likewise rolling hundreds of tubes - see my 17 tube review).  Rich, natural tone is my number 1 criteria - even if I have to sacrifice some air and detail.  I have two tube DACs and tube hybrid amps.  Just like my beloved 'HG' 6N23P tubes - fortunately with the F-1 you get all of that and tremendous dynamics - in multiple spades.
  
 As I have said the F-1 needs - at a min a good ext LPS - better a SI/Impedance USB device (Recovery or Regen) and best the iPur 2 in between.  Now to go to the big leagues the Startech in the USB chain and storage.
  
 I just wonder what the F-1 would sound like with a Hynes SR5 or SR7 - Uptone LPS-1 or JS2.
  
 I'm waiting on a 9V Rcore transformer (stuck somewhere between here and China) to finish my LT3042 DIY LPS project.  5VDC with .8uv noise.  Will try powering the F-1 without the Recovery and/or the iPur2


----------



## Spark85

I am glad to hear the positive opinions of those who are using Startech. Thank you. Soon I will also revive it.
  
 Quote:


> I'm waiting on a 9V Rcore transformer (stuck somewhere between here and China) to finish my LT3042 DIY LPS project.  5VDC with .8uv noise.  Will try powering the F-1 without the Recovery and/or the iPur2


 
  
 Interesting rb2013

 I am also starting to consider buying different power supplies, including for the DAC etc. I have recently assembled two dual sources of DIYNHK also 0.8uV, also waiting to buy transformers. I would like to know your opinion.

 ¿Have you tried on some occasion, try to outsource the power supply of the DAC, to be able to dispense with the earth in it? That is, just feed it with DC.

 There would be no earth connection throughout the system except of course, in power supplies where we have high voltages for safety.

 In this sense, I have a question for anyone in particular ¿Why do manufacturers of audio equipment, do not isolate their circuit boards to avoid ground noise, for example, in the RCA analog audio outputs?

 They are supposed to need a ground plane so the electronics can have a voltage reference, but at the same time, I also think it can be a problem. In my house, I can get to measure a lot of noise in the huge groundings. I have come to notice important differences simply by isolating the shielding of the connectors with cellophane, the USB connector from the computer.

 By the way, a couple of details to quote the comment. I guess you have already tried many options but ¿Does not overlap the operation of the Recovery and the operation of ifi IPurifier2? The two have a similar function.

 In principle, it is assumed, that the best component should be connected at the point closest to F1.

 This afternoon I connected the Nano IUSB directly to the SU-1 not using a cable until now, but using an A-B adapter and I liked the result.
 I think it could be interesting to do without the wiring and connections as little as possible, joining circuit boards, Startech REX and LEX, USB´s purifiers etc, in the same box. It is always clear that it was reversible.
  
 A greeting.


----------



## rb2013

spark85 said:


> Interesting rb2013
> 
> I am also starting to consider buying different power supplies, including for the DAC etc. I have recently assembled two dual sources of DIYNHK also 0.8uV, also waiting to buy transformers. I would like to know your opinion.
> 
> ...


 
 The SPDIF RCA is isolated galvanically - USB is more difficult.  Just disconnecting the ground pin or covering doesn;t do it.  If it were so easy.  The shield continues the ground connection.  Only a device like the Intona or USB/Ethernet can give you GI at high speed.
  
 On the Recovery and the iPur2.  Believe me I tried getting rid of one or both - and it hurt the SQ to much.  And crazy as it sounds the iPur2 directly into the F-1 AFTER the Recovery sounded the best.  BTW I had a iPur1 and it did nothing for the SQ. 
  
 I put little weight in the iFi marketing hype - so really don't know why the SQ is improved.
  
 One thing about that crazy - epic CA thread - is YES power supplies and AC filtering and balancing make a big difference.


----------



## phile1

Hi, 
 FYI, this is the answer from DIYINHK regarding the Pro3z :
 - availability : back in stock in the "coming weeks".
 Let's say it will be available after the Chinese New Year events
 - power : "external 5v should be better, but if the power from your USB is good enough, the different can be small"


----------



## colour97

rb2013 said:


> Nice
> 
> I upgraded my MEIYAN to REX with this cable: very nice cable - very reasonable price.  I ordered the 2.1mm DC end and it works great.  Also available as a 2.5mm
> 
> ...


 
 thank for your information.
  
 but i do not know where to get this MEIYAN LPS.
  
 How is the quality of TERADAK ? I would to use teradak lps at REX and fanless pc. but do not know if this quality is ok for this super chain.
  
 at your post : 341
 I think my solution will be a 4GB SLC - and two 256GB PNY USB sticks
  
 at taobao, i found some SLC 64 GB, read 320m , write 213m price: china dollars 215.00
 if i want  to install the o/s at this slc usb sticker ,
 another 2 slots, just buy cheap slow usb 2.0 usb stick to store music. does it work?
  
 thank you.


----------



## lazz

Found this. Not sure if it has been discussed. 
  
http://www.virtins.com/USB2ISO.shtml


----------



## wakka992

rb2013 said:


> That said I have a DIYinHK Pro3z coming soon to compare to the F-1.  XU216 vs XU208.  NDK SD clocks vs Crystek CCHD-575 clocks  - lower noise on board regulators.
> 
> So that will be interesting.
> 
> http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/111-xmos-192khz-high-quality-usb-to-spdif-with-ultralow-noise-1uv-regulator-wmanual-power-switch.html


 
 Dung... I totally missed this one and I compulsively bought a Singxer F-1 last night.
  
 Hope I won't regret it... finger crossed for Singxer better than Pro3z!!


----------



## slex

wakka992 said:


> Dung... I totally missed this one and I compulsively bought a Singxer F-1 last night.
> 
> Hope I won't regret it... finger crossed for Singxer better than Pro3z!!




Then wait for Singxer XU216 version. I like the casing of Singxer


----------



## wakka992

Guys any input on RCA/RCA coaxial cable lenght to be used with Singxer?
  
 Some say that 5ft (1,5mt) is the MINIMUM to avoid "signal reflection", but Chord state on MoJo/HuGo page to use coax cable of MAX 5tf(1,5mt) to avoid connection problem.
  
 Where's the truth? I would go for what Chord recommend...


----------



## jabbr

wakka992 said:


> Guys any input on RCA/RCA coaxial cable lenght to be used with Singxer?
> 
> Some say that 5ft (1,5mt) is the MINIMUM to avoid "signal reflection", but Chord state on MoJo/HuGo page to use coax cable of MAX 5tf(1,5mt) to avoid connection problem.
> 
> Where's the truth? I would go for what Chord recommend...


 
 I would go with 1.5m, then you satisfy both.


----------



## Narayan23

lazz said:


> Found this. Not sure if it has been discussed.
> 
> http://www.virtins.com/USB2ISO.shtml


 
 Seems similar to the Jitterbug, iFI also have a couple of USB dongles:
  
 The iSilencer 3.0  http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-isilencer3-0/
  
 The iDefender 3.0  http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-idefender3-0/
  
 So much choice...we need one USB dongle / solution to rule them all!


----------



## slex

wakka992 said:


> Guys any input on RCA/RCA coaxial cable lenght to be used with Singxer?
> 
> Some say that 5ft (1,5mt) is the MINIMUM to avoid "signal reflection", but Chord state on MoJo/HuGo page to use coax cable of MAX 5tf(1,5mt) to avoid connection problem.
> 
> Where's the truth? I would go for what Chord recommend...




Hmm im using just around 25cm 75ohm belden 1694A with canare BNC 75ohm and canare rca adapter.I think using ifi spdif ipurifier will supplant the need of hi-end expensive long coax cable.

Anyone has a view on that or correct me?


----------



## rb2013

phile1 said:


> Hi,
> FYI, this is the answer from DIYINHK regarding the Pro3z :
> - availability : back in stock in the "coming weeks".
> Let's say it will be available after the Chinese New Year events
> - power : "external 5v should be better, but if the power from your USB is good enough, the different can be small"


 

 That's good to hear - I hope they improved the quality of the power switch (switches from ext DC and USB) - mine failed on one of the Pro3a I had.
  
 Also it would be nice if they would supply the pins for the i2s - like Singxer does.


----------



## rb2013

slex said:


> Hmm im using just around 25cm 75ohm belden 1694A with canare BNC 75ohm and canare rca adapter.I think using ifi spdif ipurifier will supplant the need of hi-end expensive long coax cable.
> 
> Anyone has a view on that or correct me?


 
  
 Doubt that seriously.  As a system gets more resolving the differences in digital cables becomes more and more apparent.


----------



## rb2013

colour97 said:


> thank for your information.
> 
> but i do not know where to get this MEIYAN LPS.
> 
> ...


 

 Here is where you can get the MEIYAN (see the beginning page on where it's discrete design originated).
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/131867485038?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 It's $152 - Can be configured to 24VDC @3.3A.  More then enough current at that voltage.  MOSFET discrete regulation mounted in a very nice heatsink fanned case.
 The noise is rated at 13uv - very low for this level of voltage and output.
  
 Here is the TeraDak DC-30W - it does not have enough current to put out the min 1.5A @ 24VDC. It's $139.  Be careful as there are two designs - the newer one uses a discrete Jung regulation scheme.  No noise figures given.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-DC-30W-TOUCH-DC9V-2-5A-Hi-Fi-For-Audio-Linear-Power-Supply-/130906580297?hash=item1e7aa3e549:g:5UoAAOxyo4lRjkus
  
 To get a TeraDak that can put out the required 24VDC - you need this one: $280 no noise numbers given
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-DC24V-6A-Audiophile-Hifi-DC-200W-Linear-Power-Supply-/322392663292?hash=item4b1019a4fc:g:I5MAAOSwUfNXSqFD
  
 Be very careful when buying any high capacity USB stick from China - many are fake.  Or have fake capacity hacked to show much higher.
 No Ebay or Amazon (do some research).  Buy only from reputable electronic dealers/distributors like Digikey.  A 32GB SLC USB is $260 - they have no 64GB SLC available.  A 32GB mircoSD SLC is $315
  
 But yes you can use a very high capacity USB stick - like the PNY 256GB - they are $50.  The SQ is very good and better then a internal SSD or HDD.  I have not tried an external Thunderbolt or PCIe SSD.  That would require another expensive cable and another LPS - aside from the PCIe/SATA case.


----------



## rb2013

lazz said:


> Found this. Not sure if it has been discussed.
> 
> http://www.virtins.com/USB2ISO.shtml


 
 Full speed USB  - need High Speed.
  
 There is this one - but I have not tried it
 http://hifimediy.com/high-speed-usb-isolator-480Mbps
  


wakka992 said:


> Dung... I totally missed this one and I compulsively bought a Singxer F-1 last night.
> 
> Hope I won't regret it... finger crossed for Singxer better than Pro3z!!


 
 I hope to have a Pro3z to compare.  They are both very reasonably priced.
  


slex said:


> Then wait for Singxer XU216 version. I like the casing of Singxer


 
 There is no real advantage to the XU216 vs XU208 for audio SR's under 384K.  The XU216 can do 768K - have many of those files?  DAC that can process that?
  


wakka992 said:


> Guys any input on RCA/RCA coaxial cable lenght to be used with Singxer?
> 
> Some say that 5ft (1,5mt) is the MINIMUM to avoid "signal reflection", but Chord state on MoJo/HuGo page to use coax cable of MAX 5tf(1,5mt) to avoid connection problem.
> 
> Where's the truth? I would go for what Chord recommend...


 
 Here is the comment from the Audio Sensibilities webpage -they recommend 1.5M.  I have there very good Silver Statement 1.5M Digital for sale in the classifieds.
 http://audiosensibility.com/blog/information/frequently-asked-questions/


----------



## rb2013

narayan23 said:


> Seems similar to the Jitterbug, iFI also have a couple of USB dongles:
> 
> The iSilencer 3.0  http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-isilencer3-0/
> 
> ...


 

 They all do different things - why USB is such a pain to get right,
  
 But none of these do USB GI.
  
 But one super USB gizmo is coming - I hope soon - that will do many things. 
  
 I have some insider info on that - but it won't surplant the Startech USB/Ethernet solution.


----------



## Albrecht

> So much choice...we need one USB dongle / solution to rule them all!


 
  
 Yes, - when there is so much "wrong" with the USB bus, - it takes a lot to "fix" all the issues. My choice of words isn't the best here, as what is being "discovered" is that the USB bus has both it's benefits & it's drawbacks as a carrier for audio: especially high-end audio. And, if one is just using the USB bus for what it is originally designed for, - there is nothing to "fix."
  
 There are single products being designed and built, and others that have been in the market for years, that address & mitigate these multiple issues. IMO, high end audio designer/manufacturers have really dug into these issues & learned a great deal, (sometimes through checking computer industry products already released on the market).
  
 The StarTech/Icron/LanRover products have been out for a few years in several different forms, designed to extend the USB "ports" over a LAN. For high end audio, we're already starting to see these "single purpose" USB devices become obsolete. They are very good for what they do, but as you say, - only perform one of the several functions needed. One of their more important functions with high-end audio, - is to get your noisy multifunction computer far away from the audio equipment in one's rack. If you're not doing this, - you're not really utilizing the device(s) to its fullest potential IMO.
  
 Cheers,


----------



## colour97

rb2013 said:


> Here is where you can get the MEIYAN (see the beginning page on where it's discrete design originated).
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/131867485038?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> It's $152 - Can be configured to 24VDC @3.3A.  More then enough current at that voltage.  MOSFET discrete regulation mounted in a very nice heatsink fanned case.
> ...


 
少帅音响(TeraDak)Apple苹果ibookG4 HiFi发烧线性电源/24V/2.5A  
 i found this one teradak lps, it is for ibookg4 with 24v 2.5 a, do you think it is ok to go?
  
  
 thank you.


----------



## rb2013

albrecht said:


> Yes, - when there is so much "wrong" with the USB bus, - it takes a lot to "fix" all the issues. My choice of words isn't the best here, as what is being "discovered" is that the USB bus has both it's benefits & it's drawbacks as a carrier for audio: especially high-end audio. And, if one is just using the USB bus for what it is originally designed for, - there is nothing to "fix."
> 
> There are single products being designed and built, and others that have been in the market for years, that address & mitigate these multiple issues. IMO, high end audio designer/manufacturers have really dug into these issues & learned a great deal, (sometimes through checking computer industry products already released on the market).
> 
> ...


 

 Good points - but I'd add that USB is a PIA but when it's done right the results are nothing less then breathtaking good.  Not easy to get to that level - but it is finally available now.  A few years back - there just wasn't the gizmos/gear to get there.  Not saying it can;t get better still - but at what cost and maybe just incremental.  I find it hard to believe it can much better - the level of SQ is so great.  Just smokes those $5K MC carts and $20K turntables and phono pre-amp chains.  At least that's my experience.
  
 I guess that a complete one box solution may never be had - that is the optimum.  As was my experience with Rednet AOIP - made better with a SPDIF Mutec reclocker - then an ext OCX external Antelope Wclock.  That's as far as I got  - but then an Atomic Rubidum clock ($5K) could be added to the Antelope OCX, then replacing the SMPS with LPS's ----and on it goes.  Then still no resolution over 192k, difficult SR switching on the fly (with an ext Wclock configuration as mentioned), no i2s, etc..
  
 In the end the cost just gets crazy...I was able to exceed the SQ by a very significant amount for less cost then a 16D.
  
 So what I'm saying in high fi land  - nothing is optimal.  Oh you should see the lengths that the analog guys go through!  At least we don't need expensive LP baths and vacuums - de-statizers, de-magnetizers - and that's just for the recording medium!
  
 One of the great discoveries is that the Startech/ICRON (but not the LanRover) can do dual duty - both to enhance the USB data stream SQ - but also to provide an excellent vehicle for music file storage and playback.  Two birds with one stone.  So any investment in let's say a LPS goes along way, or a better USB cable, etc...


----------



## rb2013

colour97 said:


> 少帅音响(TeraDak)Apple苹果ibookG4 HiFi发烧线性电源/24V/2.5A
> i found this one teradak lps, it is for ibookg4 with 24v 2.5 a, do you think it is ok to go?
> 
> 
> thank you.


 

 It should work - I think the MEIYAN is better and cheaper


----------



## Albrecht

> So what I'm saying in high fi land  - nothing is optimal.


 
 Totally agree....
  
 I think that it took the high end audio guys a long time to jump on board because they didn't know about computers, and that modifying multi-function computers and optimizing them was such a daunting task so far outside their area of expertise. The proliferation of those small, more single purpose computers in the "internet of things," - (or Internet of ****), - helped.
  
 The fundamental rule of high end audio in the past has been to isolate, separate, & simplify the "system" into separate components that are of superior quality. (No more receivers: separate the amp from the tuner, separate the integrated amp into a pre-amp and power amp).
  
 With digital file playback, - we can't forget the importance of hardware, - and the noise issues, or signal integrity issues that come with preemptive multitasking. A computer that is great for doing 100 things, isn't going to be great for doing 1 thing: high end audio. Strip that thing down to only what is essential, and try to make those essential elements as high quality as possible.
  
 Once people started replacing those horrible, bleeding, SMPS power supplies in PCs, or installing a 1 port USB card in the PCI bus, etc., they started realizing the same kind of SQ benefits that were realized long ago by separating analog components. Speaking for myself, these noisy USB bus mitigation devices like the Intona, Regen, iPurifier, etc, - showed/proved that a bus designed for mice, keyboards, hard drives, cameras, etc. & a lot of them, - really needed "help" or even reduced to just one port if it was going to be used as an audio carrier for SOTA playback. 
  
 It totally makes sense that there will soon be a great combo box that will perform 4 or 5 of the functions that we're using 4 boxes for now....
  
 Cheers...


----------



## rb2013

albrecht said:


> Totally agree....
> 
> I think that it took the high end audio guys a long time to jump on board because they didn't know about computers, and that modifying multi-function computers and optimizing them was such a daunting task so far outside their area of expertise. The proliferation of those small, more single purpose computers in the "internet of things," - (or Internet of ****), - helped.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes - i agree will all that.
  
 I think what has propelled this once laughed at source - is the 'Moore's Law' of computing power per dollar of cost.  But beyond Moore's Law in CPU's is it's even greater consequence on storage costs  - flash memory in particular.  So opening the path for this level of audio playback.  Likewise the rise of low cost very high power FPGA IC's - like the Xilinx SPARTAN 6 used by Chord in their DAC's and in the Startech devices.
  
 So project this out in 5yrs - even better and cheaper.
  
 The key for digital audio and computer audio in general has been the recognition of the importance of clean power supplies.  The big advances there.  So rather then focusing on Amp/Pre-amp/Tuner/Phono Pre as in olden days - it's now about breaking out parts of the chain that generate noise (USB packet noise) and feeding each step with very clean power.
  




  
 BTW had a PCIe USB PPA V2 card - was not really impressed by it.


----------



## Narayan23

Rob sorry for the offtopic but after reading so much about power supplies I´m thinking my Geek Pulse XFI DAC would most likely benefit from a quality LPS, as far as specs all I could find was a power input for the Pulse XFI of 12V DC 650mA - 950mA, SBooster have this: https://www.sbooster.com/botw-pp-eco-12v-132v/geek-pulse-xfi   the output voltage is 12V - 3A  / 13.2V - 2.25A,  I suspect I could do better for less money and would very much value your input. The Meiyan you posted about seems fantastic and has the option of chosing 12V output voltage but I´m not sure if it fits the bill.


----------



## rb2013

narayan23 said:


> Rob sorry for the offtopic but after reading so much about power supplies I´m thinking my Geek Pulse XFI DAC would most likely benefit from a quality LPS, as far as specs all I could find was a power input for the Pulse XFI of 12V DC 650mA - 950mA, SBooster have this: https://www.sbooster.com/botw-pp-eco-12v-132v/geek-pulse-xfi   the output voltage is 12V - 3A  / 13.2V - 2.25A,  I suspect I could do better for less money and would very much value your input. The Meiyan you posted about seems fantastic and has the option of chosing 12V output voltage but I´m not sure if it fits the bill.


 

 Geek also has the LPS4 for $900 - Under 6uv noise multiple voltage outputs.  Pretty expensive.
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/lh-labs-geek-pulse-xfi-linear-power-supply-4-lps4#D7OHjBdISYQsjcPo.97
  
 The MEIYAN has a bit more noise (13uv) and only one voltage output - but it's $150
  
 Sbooster is approx $400 - have no idea on it's noise level


----------



## rb2013

Some tips for getting the best SQ out of the F-1 and the Startech
  
 Run at least 6-8 hours before listening - this allows plenty of time for the clocks to stablize and the PS to reach optimal temperature.
  
 I run mine 24/7
  
  
 On another note  - I did the final shootout on the SLC MicroSD Card vs the SLC USB - and...the SLC microSD came out the winner.
  
 I used this MicroSD to USB adapter for the conversion:
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EHIOS0S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## phile1

rb2013 said:


> That's good to hear - I hope they improved the quality of the power switch (switches from ext DC and USB) - mine failed on one of the Pro3a I had.
> 
> Also it would be nice if they would supply the pins for the i2s - like Singxer does.


 
 Hi,
 I had the Pro3A too.
 When I contacted DIYINHK regarding the wpoer : they advised to power it thru the USB socket, because admit that the interface could become hot when powered thru the 5V socket.
 They did not mention that point when I contacted them regarding the Pro3z... maybe they fixed that issue, I don't know.
  
 Regarding the Crystek clock on the F-1, I find them "strange". 
 Strange because they seem to be smaller than the crystek I bought for my streamer.
 I bought these ones : http://www.mouser.fr/search/ProductDetail.aspx?Crystek-Corporation%2fCCHD-957-25-24576%2f&qs=0ahj2ebvT29UgjH2%252b34MOQ%3d%3d
 Does Singxer really use these Crystek or a low profile version ?!?
  
 Rgds


----------



## wakka992

rb2013 said:


> Some tips for getting the best SQ out of the F-1 and the Startech
> 
> Run at least 6-8 hours before listening - this allows plenty of time for the clocks to stablize and the PS to reach optimal temperature.
> 
> I run mine 24/7


 
  
 So no problem in running 24/7 both iPurifier2 and Singxer even if I power off DAC/amp? I mean they'll be connected to electicity but won't play a thing as the DAC is off... Now that I think of it even iFi audio admitted on the iPurifier2 thread that the clocks need time to be ready/warm and stabilized


----------



## rb2013

phile1 said:


> Hi,
> I had the Pro3A too.
> When I contacted DIYINHK regarding the wpoer : they advised to power it thru the USB socket, because admit that the interface could become hot when powered thru the 5V socket.
> They did not mention that point when I contacted them regarding the Pro3z... maybe they fixed that issue, I don't know.
> ...


 

 Yes the F-1 uses the CCHD-575 the ones you have are the CCHD-957.  Now the 575 the F-1 uses is a custom design with the 'Tri-State' feature - allowing the clock not being use to be turned off.  This lowers noise on the clocks PS circuit.
  
 The phase noise on the 575 is better then the 957.

 For example on the 22.5792Mhz version
  
 10Hz    575= -100dB     975= -97dB
 100Hz  575= -130dB     975= -126dB
 1Khz     575= -151dB     975= -149dB
 10Khz   575= -162.7dB  975= -161.8
  
 These may seem like small differences - but remember decibels are a power factor  - so every -3dB is roughly a halving of the noise levels.
  
 http://www.crystek.com/crystal/spec-sheets/clock/CCHD-575.pdf
 http://www.crystek.com/crystal/spec-sheets/clock/cchd-957.pdf


----------



## rb2013

wakka992 said:


> So no problem in running 24/7 both iPurifier2 and Singxer even if I power off DAC/amp? I mean they'll be connected to electicity but won't play a thing as the DAC is off... Now that I think of it even iFi audio admitted on the iPurifier2 thread that the clocks need time to be ready/warm and stabilized


 

 Yes no problem.  Since I run Class 'A' amps I keep those running 24/7 as well.  Same for my tube DAC.  They take a day or so to thermal stabilize - and sound a bit 'hard' cold.  But once fully warmed up - musical as all get out.


----------



## colour97

update:
  
 just bought singxer su-1 . and sandisk ultra flair  usb 3.0 128 gd.
  
 for su-1 , i am using aes because i don't have hdmi, will purchase blue jean cable .
 for spring dac , i had modded aes with audionote transformer. 
  
  
  
 tried to install linux voyage mpd  at startech usb but fail. 
  
 now, plug this sandisk into startech for music storage. but seem sq  stored at startech is much much better than at nas. more clean, tighter. less noisy. 
  
  
  
 chinese new year is coming , meiyan seller is located in china, i think i will receive meiyan power after mid feb till they start working again.


----------



## rb2013

colour97 said:


> update:
> 
> just bought singxer su-1 . and sandisk ultra flair  usb 3.0 128 gd.
> 
> ...


 

 I always thought that running the OS from there would be tricky. 
  
 Good report on the Sandisk USB for music file playback.  First comparison to a NAS (are you using a SSD or HDD on the NAS?)  - the USB playback should improve with 100hrs+ of run time.  And certainly will after getting the MEIYAN LPS to power the REX.
  
 The Chinese New Years holiday maybe why my 9V Rcore is delayed.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

Thinking about my comparison of the SLC USB vs SLC microSd last night.  6 different tracks in a custom playlist - I could not tell where the tracks were playing from.  I had the identical tracks loaded next to each other - so I could just flip back and forth on the fly.
  
 In every case the SLC microSD was a bit bolder - more dynamic and better resolved.  Incremental to be sure - but a definite discernible difference.
  
 Anyone wants to try the 1GB SLC USB PM and I will sell it to you.


----------



## rb2013

Just ordered this board to try out - I have a 12V Rcore to power it:  I really like it's variable voltage settings - wide input voltage range.
  
 LT3045
  
 Ultralow-noise (0.8 µVRMS) low-dropout linear regulators (DC-DC) 
 The LT®3045 is a high performance low dropout linear regulator featuring LTC’s ultralow noise and ultrahigh PSRR architecture for powering noise sensitive applications.
*Features*
 • Wide Input Voltage Range: 1.8V to 20V
 • Output Voltage Range: 0V to 15V
 • Output Current: 500mA
 • Low Dropout Voltage: 260mV
 • Ultralow RMS Noise: 0.8µVRMS (10Hz to 100kHz)
 • Ultralow Spot Noise: 2nV/√Hz at 10kHz
 • Ultrahigh PSRR: 76dB at 1MHz
 • Multi output (PIN Configurable *Vout=ΣOpenPINs*) or Single Resistor Programs Output Voltage (best performance - available by request, please PM )
 • Built-In Fixed Current Limit and Thermal Shutdown
 • PCB size: 25x35mm
 • Operating Temperature Range:–40°C to 125°C

*Package includes*
 1 x Fully completed and tested LT3045 PCB
 1 x 3PIN straight headers with Jumper(ON/OFF)
*BOM (Bill of Materials)*
 LT3045 : IC, Low Noise Power Solution, Linear Technology  – United States
 GRM31CR71E106KA12L x2 : Cap Ceramic 10uF 25V X7R 10% SMD 1206, Murata – Japan
 GRM31MR71E105KA01L x1 : Cap Ceramic 1uF 25V X7R 10% SMD1206, Murata –
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/LT3045-Ultralow-noise-0-8-VRMS-LDO-linear-regulators-0V-15V-0-5A-1V-Step-/252719753860?hash=item3ad7456a84:g:aGwAAOSwA3dYdhLA


----------



## Spark85

I just got Startech and only took about 5 minutes with him, and the first song, first seconds, and I've heard something that was previously overlooked. Specifically when a singer sucks air before singing.
 It is still too early to have a decided opinion on more factors, but for the moment is what I have perceived. 
  
 It is expensive and it is possible that there are people who are not worth the extra price, but I have clear, if you seek to squeeze the most of our equipment, is a great, tool.
 The increase in listening to the smallest details, is impressive.

 Before I already had a very good sound with the SU-1 and a Nano iUSB 3.0, but for now I've noticed a difference. Much smaller detail.
  
 I will continue to give more opinions ..... go, again, second song and another detail background that was previously unnoticed. Thank you very much RB2013 and for everyone who has also collaborated 
  
 Precisely RB2013, yesterday I asked the seller, Alexey for a replacement of an LM317 and LM337 to tell me if they could connect several in parallel. To power the OPA outputs of a NAD M51 and the headphone amplifier and are not expensive.

 It also has complete power supply´s in the catalog.
  
 Yesterday I also saw in Ebay, a source with even better features of PSRR, but also more expensive, to see if I find the link and comment.
  
 By the way, some of the sources Meiyan and Zerozone that have been commented here by the Chinese year-end problem, can also be obtained in Aliexpress and the internal circuitry of some of them, too.
  
 One question, I am using a translator to communicate with everyone ¿Do I understand more or less what I mean or am I inaccurate?


----------



## Spark85

This is the comment. The technical features are very good.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULN-HC79A-Ultra-Low-Noise-Negative-Regulator-5V-30V-Output-High-Current-Type-/330736039233
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULN-HC78A-Ultra-Low-Noise-Positive-Regulator-2-5V-30V-Output-High-Current-Type-/230794229874?hash=item35bc687872:g:6UoAAMXQVhFR9iR7


----------



## rb2013

spark85 said:


> I just got Startech and only took about 5 minutes with him, and the first song, first seconds, and I've heard something that was previously overlooked. Specifically when a singer sucks air before singing.
> It is still too early to have a decided opinion on more factors, but for the moment is what I have perceived.
> 
> It is expensive and it is possible that there are people who are not worth the extra price, but I have clear, if you seek to squeeze the most of our equipment, is a great, tool.
> ...


 

 Yes you are coming in clear - great you like the Startech.  As I've said to really get it's benefits you need LPS on both REX and LEX.
  
 I have been communicating with Alexey - no- unfortunately they can;t be paralleled.  Looks like I need a 6V transformer to run 5VDC...back to the transformer store!
  
 I ordered the fixed (by resistor) 5VDC voltage version as he says they have lower noise then the adjustable version.
  
 On the MEIYAN discrete design - there is this board available - as a kit.  I prefer the assembled and tested MEIYAN version.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/121940137982?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## rb2013

spark85 said:


> This is the comment. The technical features are very good.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULN-HC79A-Ultra-Low-Noise-Negative-Regulator-5V-30V-Output-High-Current-Type-/330736039233
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULN-HC78A-Ultra-Low-Noise-Positive-Regulator-2-5V-30V-Output-High-Current-Type-/230794229874?hash=item35bc687872:g:6UoAAMXQVhFR9iR7


 

 I don't think so - based on the LT1019.

  
 On the PSRR you need to see a freq range  - just a number means little as many LDO's have wildly varying PSRR by frequency.
  
 Here they only quote 50Hz to 400Hz!  Of 90dB - pretty much worthless.  Need to see 10Hz to 100Khz numbers:
  
 Now look on page 5 and see graph for Ripple Rejection - starts at 110dB at 100Hz then drops like a rock to 45dB at 100kHz +
  
  
 http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/1019fd.pdf


----------



## ericp2

rb2013 said:


> Just ordered this board to try out - I have a 12V Rcore to power it:  I really like it's variable voltage settings - wide input voltage range.
> 
> LT3045
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Rb cool board, but isnt it a DC/DC converter, is a 12V Rcore enough?...thanks


----------



## rb2013

ericp2 said:


> Hi Rb cool board, but isnt it a DC/DC converter, is a 12V Rcore enough?...thanks


 

 The LT3045 is a low drop out linear regulator.  For 500mA @ 5VDC out he recommends 6V input.
  
 The downside the board he sells has very little PS capacitor filtering.
  


> Hi
> 
> Output can be set from 0 to 15V - output current upto 0.5A
> and it is difficult to put in parallel - you need to connect sense circuit (this board not designed for parallel use)
> ...


----------



## rb2013

There is another board that may be available soon on Taobao:
  
 LT3045

  

  
  
 And this dual regulator board LT1942/LT3042:

  
  
 Good times...Good times!


----------



## ericp2

Hi rb i found another board from a german website, do you think this one could work?...unfortunately its in German, and they dont share any noise data, thanks
 http://www.thel-audioworld.de/module/Class-A%20Netzteil/Blackpulsar.htm


----------



## rb2013

ericp2 said:


> Hi rb i found another board from a german website, do you think this one could work?...unfortunately its in German, and they dont share any noise data, thanks
> http://www.thel-audioworld.de/module/Class-A%20Netzteil/Blackpulsar.htm


 

 Hard to tell in German
  
 DIYinHK has this board:
 http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/89-08uv-ultralow-noise-dac-power-supply-regulator-3357v-15ax2.html
 LT3042 but like most of these LT3042 boards limited to 500mA.
  
 I have this one now -and it works (with a 12V RCore from my Breeze LPS).  But overheats after 20 mins and shuts down powering the F-1.  It's rated to 1.5A @5VDC.
  
 The seller said that the 12V RCore is at the upper limit to powering it.  And advised a 9V instead so I have this one coming on the slow boat:  Ordered Dec27th
  
  
  

  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/142115498378?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Very sweet Copper Shielded R-Core:

  


> This transformer using famous Japanese Nippon steel coiled silicon steel sheet and oxygen-free copper enamel wire,reliable performance，


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/222210166843?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## ericp2

looks good thanks


----------



## noshortcuts

I've just finished the first couple and last couple pages of this thread. Great job! It's interesting to see ways to improve USB to audiophile levels without spending fortunes. While I've managed to avoid USB in my audio systems, I can't help but wonder how much people have compared these USB chains against other input/output options besides USB. For instance AES, coax, etc., which are usually considered to provide better sound than USB. Does this method of improving USB surpass AES, etc. when they are also given proper attention to source/power/cord/etc.?


----------



## Adosero

Rob, if you were DIYing your own 19v LPSU which transformer and regulator board would you use?


----------



## rb2013

adosero said:


> Rob, if you were DIYing your own 19v LPSU which transformer and regulator board would you use?


 

 If you want something cheap - this is hard to beat.  180uv noise on the  LT1083 though.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/30VA-LPS-DC-9V-3A-Linear-Power-Supply-psu-option-12V-15V-18V-24V-for-AMP-HiFi/131861257445?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40806%26meid%3D0c2d17486619477880ef81b34b83123a%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D161870356771
  
 You could then just mod this with another LDO board - but not many can do 19VDC.  How much current do you need?
  
 The MEIYAN can be made for 19V and has very high current and relatively low noise of 13uv - fully assembled and tested:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/131867485038?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Or available as a board kit:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/121940137982?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
  
 Here is another discrete MOSFET Jung regulation board:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/121760253760?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 But honestly after you buy a nice quality R-core transformer (you could use a cheap toroidal or EI - but give up the much higher PSRR of an R-Core.), case, cable, IEC inlet, DC ouput, etc...you might as well buy an assemble unit.
  
 Unfortunately I have yet  to see a 5VDC LT3042/LT3045 R-Core fully assembled LPS on Ebay. So have to go the DIY/Mod route.


----------



## mz2014

Hi
 Very good solutions from capable man from Polish audio forum.
 https://muzgdiy.wordpress.com/2015/07/25/16w-power-supply/


----------



## rb2013

noshortcuts said:


> I've just finished the first couple and last couple pages of this thread. Great job! It's interesting to see ways to improve USB to audiophile levels without spending fortunes. While I've managed to avoid USB in my audio systems, I can't help but wonder how much people have compared these USB chains against other input/output options besides USB. For instance AES, coax, etc., which are usually considered to provide better sound than USB. Does this method of improving USB surpass AES, etc. when they are also given proper attention to source/power/cord/etc.?


 

 USB is from the PC to the DDC - AES and SPDIF coax (or i2s) is from the DDC to the DAC.  So you are confusing the two parts of the chain.
  
 On most of the DDC's I've had there is both SPDIF coax and AES - I have run both and slightly prefer AES.  But my DACs are coax/optical input only so I may not be getting the full AES benefit.  On my Rednet AOIP - I also experimented by running AES vs. SPDIF coax to the Mutec AES/SPDIF reclocker and also preferred AES - but the differences were minor.  And this was AES to AES.  From my experience the SPDIF RCA digital cable makes much more of a difference.
  
 If AES is important to you I suggest the Singxer SU-1:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Singxer-SU-1-XMOS-XU208-USB-Digital-interface-CPLD-DSD256-DOP/122000079084
  
 There are two other methods to move digital music data stream from the PC to the DAC.  One is called AOIP (Audio Over IP) - see my thread covering this:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-over-ip-rednet-3-16-review-aes67-sets-a-new-standard-for-computer-audio
  
 The other is over PCIe or Thunderbolt 2- and now with WINTEL support Thunderbolt 3.  Many have had success with an ext PCIe case (powered by an ext LPS) connected to the PC with the Lynx cards AES16e and E22PCI.  Don't recommend a MB installed PCIe solution - bad PS noise, high EMI/RFI environment.
 http://www.lynxstudio.com
  
 My thread on the very powerful Thunderbolt 3.  This is a coming standard - doing away with Apple's propietary cable and using the new USB-c cable:
 More info on my thread here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/806121/thunderbolt-3-for-audio-is-this-the-next-computer-audio-standard


----------



## rb2013

mz2014 said:


> Hi
> Very good solutions from capable man from Polish audio forum.
> https://muzgdiy.wordpress.com/2015/07/25/16w-power-supply/


 

 I got a Anti-virus warning message on that link


----------



## mz2014

This page is secure.


----------



## rb2013

mz2014 said:


> This page is secure.


 

 Having FireFox issues today - switched to Opera:

 I don't see any noise or PSRR numbers?


 Here is a link to the very nice Belleson discrete regulators - expensive though  1uv(RMS) of noise 20Hz-20Khz, PSRR quoted at 110dB but with no frequency range (virtually worthless number) - SPJ 2A @ 5VDC.  $54.50 for the Regulator alone.
  
 https://belleson.com/index.php?_route_=SPJ-2A
  
 Interesting quote form the Belleson FAQ page:


> What kind of capacitors should I use for a rectifier filter?​ Use the electrolytic capacitor of your choice. The most important issue for regulation is to have sufficient capacitance to prevent ripple that goes below Vout+Vdropout.​
> Should I bypass the filter capacitors with ceramic?​ Yes, a 0.1µF ceramic cap at the Superpower Vin terminal helps reduce high frequency noise and RF. This amount or more capacitance should be placed at the Vin terminal to ground to prevent possible low level oscillation at some load current values.​
> How much filter capacitance should I use, can I use too much?​ More filter capacitance is better, it reduces ripple. When the room lights start to dim as you switch on the power supply, you may be reaching the point of "too much." Or maybe you should run a separate mains wire for your audio system .​


 
I have some .01uf VISHAY-RODERSTEIN​MKP-1837 Metalized Polypropylene Film Capacitors - maybe I will try as a bypass on the LT3042 and LT3045 boards.​ 
There is a downside to very large filter cap banks - besides dimming lights - as they cycle to charge and discharge the feed some noise back into the AC line.  No where near as much as a SMPS - but some.  So best to use an R-core transformer for higher PSRR and less filter caps in a LPS design.​


----------



## Narayan23

Rob do these power supplies look decent to you?
  
 1) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221873423925
  
 2) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2016NEW-S130-Ultra-Low-Noise-DC-Linear-Power-supply-2-way-LPS-12V-12V-3-5A-L161-/121858195663
  
 I´ve asked for opinions in the Geek Pulse thread and was recommended the iFI iPower but I´ve read mixed reviews about it and it seems too good to be true, it´s a shame I can´t go down the DIY road since I´d probably end up in intensive care 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Thanks again for your help.


----------



## Narayan23

I stumbled upon this and to be honest I don´t have the slightest clue if this will be useful for the thread but I´m posting just in case 
  
 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1684029908/the-silentswitcher-mains-free-low-noise-15v-and-5v


----------



## Adosero

rb2013 said:


> If you want something cheap - this is hard to beat.  180uv noise on the  LT1083 though.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/30VA-LPS-DC-9V-3A-Linear-Power-Supply-psu-option-12V-15V-18V-24V-for-AMP-HiFi/131861257445?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40806%26meid%3D0c2d17486619477880ef81b34b83123a%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D161870356771
> 
> You could then just mod this with another LDO board - but not many can do 19VDC.  How much current do you need?
> ...


 
 Thank you very much for the detail response, I think I will need 4A max.
  
 Honestly I will order the Meiyan 100va immediately if things start to get complicated


----------



## rb2013

narayan23 said:


> Rob do these power supplies look decent to you?
> 
> 1) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221873423925
> 
> ...


 

 The iPower is a switching power supply and pollutes the AC line with high levels of noise.  I had a 5VDC and a 9VDC and sold them both.  They are better then a normal SMPS.
  
 Better to go with a cheap linear power supply and add a DC iPur at the DC output to filter down the remaining noise.
  
 The first link is a Discrete regulation scheme - but not much details on the circuit or the noise levels.
  
 The second is similar to the MEIYAN but with a dual output - maybe not as good of an R-core.  No copper shielding.
  
 Why don't we move this discussion over to my linear power supply thread.  We have moved far off topic
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/822160/audio-power-supplies-part3-smps-lps-supercap-battery-diy-route-new-devices-opens-up-new-options
  
  
  
 The


----------



## borrego

I just placed my order for the Icron Ranger 2304GE-LAN. It is cheaper and I think all new stocks of the Startech will use ASIC anyway. The Icron says USB3 support so there is also chance the Icron has later firmwire?
  
 My objective is more to be able to use cheap external USB sticks to store my music files. I upgraded the my notebook with 2TB internal HDD 6 months ago and it is almost full again with music and photo RAW files. I do have a HP Home server runnning Windows Server 2012R2, but I feel lazy switching on 2 computers to do quick music listening.
  
 Currently I am running a simple Windows  10 / J. River Media Player 22 -> Belkin Gold USB cabke -> Intona -> Cheap short 20cm Customed made USB cable -> audio-gd Ref 5.32 with Amanero. No external LPS or Fidelizer running on computer.
  
  
@rb2013
 1. Shall I experience sound improvement with the Icron if I just use the stock Icron SMPS?
 2. Have you tried combining the 3 USB sticks into a single Storage Space with Windows 10?


----------



## rb2013

borrego said:


> I just placed my order for the Icron Ranger 2304GE-LAN. It is cheaper and I think all new stocks of the Startech will use ASIC anyway. The Icron says USB3 support so there is also chance the Icron has later firmwire?
> 
> My objective is more to be able to use cheap external USB sticks to store my music files. I upgraded the my notebook with 2TB internal HDD 6 months ago and it is almost full again with music and photo RAW files. I do have a HP Home server runnning Windows Server 2012R2, but I feel lazy switching on 2 computers to do quick music listening.
> 
> ...


Well your experience will be interesting. I assume that the small supply of SPARTAN 6 FPGA Startechs would soon sell out, the the ASIC version would be the only option. Not saying it sounds worse or better, only a direct comparison could give insight into that. When you get the ICRON Ranger could you post the SMPS voltages, curious to see if those changed.

On your questions, #1 well maybe, now you may no longer need the Intona. A comparison of the two would be interesting. Replacing the stock SMPS with decent LPS's is, of course, going to step up the SQ in a very significant way.

#2 I haven't but posted several pages back on how they could be combined into one RAID drive.


----------



## somestranger26

rb2013 said:


> Well your experience will be interesting. I assume that the small supply of SPARTAN 6 FPGA Startechs would soon sell out, the the ASIC version would be the only option. Not saying it sounds worse or better, only a direct comparison could give insight into that. When you get the ICRON Ranger could you post the SMPS voltages, curious to see if those changed.
> 
> On your questions, #1 well maybe, now you may no longer need the Intona. A comparison of the two would be interesting. Replacing the stock SMPS with decent LPS's is, of course, going to step up the SQ in a very significant way.
> 
> #2 I haven't but posted several pages back on how they could be combined into one RAID drive.


 
 My Startech does not have the FPGA. I'm very impressed with the SQ improvement with just the SMPS that it came with. I'll get a Meiyan at some point.
  
 If anything I would expect the ASIC to sound better because it will do less processing to achieve the same result, so it would probably dump less noise back into the power supply.


----------



## taz23

somestranger26 said:


> My Startech does not have the FPGA. I'm very impressed with the SQ improvement with just the SMPS that it came with. I'll get a Meiyan at some point.
> 
> If anything I would expect the ASIC to sound better because it will do less processing to achieve the same result, so it would probably dump less noise back into the power supply.


 
  
 Thanks a lot for sharing this, somestranger26!  If so, then perhaps the Icron will be the better value option since they both use ASIC.
  
 I am still waiting for the LPS to arrive...  but the Icron with SMPS is still doing a great job in the meantime.


----------



## Paulkouhan

Hi !
  
 Did you try one of these fo power your USB flash drives ?
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ADUM4160-USB-Isolator-Board-ADI-USB-Port-Isolator-Protection/32254275117.html?spm=2114.40010308.4.49.UyajDT
  
  
 My Singxer F1 becomes better every day ... The best sound I ever got.


----------



## Spark85

Hello.
  
 Mine gave it to me very recently and if it has the Spartan model
 Interestingly, the Local and Remote electronic circuit boards look identical. Components change. The ones of the power supply and of the USB connections are obviated.
  
 I also appreciate an impressive improvement only with the original source. I hope to feed the local and the remote soon to compare results.
  
 Arriving at this point and with the improvement, that supposes this form to isolate the communication DAC and Pc, it is presumed that the audio manufacturers in general and in particular the DACs, should use to depart from now.
 It does not seem right to me that after spending a large amount of money on a DAC, it can not be properly used for this cause.
  
 I ask myself several questions.The use of a PC, is very widespread when it comes to listening to music ¿You know some, to what extent, this problem is widespread among manufacturers of for example DAC's. In other words ¿Is this insulation system beneficial to all installations, only some DACs?
 ¿Do you know any DAC, which has galvanic isolation in this way?


----------



## robi20064

Is there any SQ differene using other StarTech devices such as:

https://www.startech.com/eu/Cards-Adapters/USB-2/USB-Extenders/1-Port-USB-2-over-Cat5-Cat6-Ethernet-Extender-up-to-330ft-100m~USB2001EXT2
or
https://www.startech.com/eu/Cards-Adapters/USB-2/USB-Extenders/~USB2001EXTV

Are these utilizing the same FPGA/ASIC chipsets?


----------



## rb2013

somestranger26 said:


> My Startech does not have the FPGA. I'm very impressed with the SQ improvement with just the SMPS that it came with. I'll get a Meiyan at some point.
> 
> If anything I would expect the ASIC to sound better because it will do less processing to achieve the same result, so it would probably dump less noise back into the power supply.


 
 Nice!  I hope you are right - maybe some one will send me their ASIC version for comparison. Good feedback - of course the SQ will improve with 100-200 hrs run time.
  
 Now the ASIC is cheaper to make and has a lower price.  I would note that Chord uses the Xilinx SPARTAN 6 FPGA in their widley acclaimed totl DACs like the DAVE and Hugo TT.  If a ASIC could sound better and be cheaper to produce - I imagine they would be using one.


> *Spartan 6 FPGA*
> The Hugo TT retains the same high-performance Spartan 6 FPGA that enabled Hugo to redefine the DAC genre in 2014. It has the same specification and measured performance as its mobile sibling, a device that “broke all records” for dynamic range in leading UK hi-fi magazine, Hi-Fi World, in the summer of 2014.
> It uses our bespoke FPGA DAC technology to deliver class-leading sound quality from your music collection, however it is stored.
> At its heart lies a new version of the advanced Spartan 6 Field Programmable Gate Array (FPGA) with 1,000x the processing power of the traditional mass-produced chip DAC. DAVE’s FPGA is loaded with over a million lines of code to confront complex timing issues head-on, with speed and precision.
> The FPGA’s extraordinary capability enables a number of key sonic benefits, including significantly improved timing and the best noise-shaper performance of any known DAC. DAVE’s technology delivers music with unmatched reality and musicality, with an unrivalled timing response. The device’s lossless digital volume control outputs the signal direct to your power amplifier for the purest experience.


 
  
 Here is a photo of the SPARTAN 6 FPGA version of the Startech for visual comparison:


----------



## rb2013

robi20064 said:


> Is there any SQ differene using other StarTech devices such as:
> 
> https://www.startech.com/eu/Cards-Adapters/USB-2/USB-Extenders/1-Port-USB-2-over-Cat5-Cat6-Ethernet-Extender-up-to-330ft-100m~USB2001EXT2
> or
> ...


 
 No those are not the ones.  Must say three things!
 1) GB LAN certified
 2) Compatible with isosyrchron audio (even though we are using it with async audio)
 3) have four USB ports.
  
 Be careful as their are many Startech and ICRON units available - but one one version (whether it be FPGA or ASIC processors) that is the right one.


----------



## rb2013

spark85 said:


> Hello.
> 
> Mine gave it to me very recently and if it has the Spartan model
> Interestingly, the Local and Remote electronic circuit boards look identical. Components change. The ones of the power supply and of the USB connections are obviated.
> ...


 
 It is unlikely you will ever see this technology built into a DAC.  Space issues, power supply issues.
  
 But no reason you could see a one box F-1/iPur2/Recover/Startech - maybe I should make one.  Put in a fancy case and sell for thousands


----------



## Mr Underhill

Just checked, glad to say that I have the SPARTAN-6 chip ....until someone finds out the ASIC is better.
  
 I got my replacement F1 a few days ago, it IS a lot better than the DU-U8. With the F1 in place the differences between the NAS and the StarTech have narrowed even further. I had a couple of friends over, one of whom, Roger, works in pro-Audio and his son who is now in the third year of his audio engineering degree (just applying to join the BBC), their view was that the Spartan had a tad more reverb, but perhaps a bit more edge as well.
  
 Roger was flabergasted that the same file could sound different simply because one copy was on the NAS and another on USB. His son said that it was hard to argue with your own ears.
  
 My replacement 24V LPSU is en route.
  
 The Teradak X1/X2 appears to have gone out of production, so I'll need to ID another LPSU to power the other StarTech box.


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> Just checked, glad to say that I have the SPARTAN-6 chip ....until someone finds out the ASIC is better.
> 
> I got my replacement F1 a few days ago, it IS a lot better than the DU-U8. With the F1 in place the differences between the NAS and the StarTech have narrowed even further. I had a couple of friends over, one of whom, Roger, works in pro-Audio and his son who is now in the third year of his audio engineering degree (just applying to join the BBC), their view was that the Spartan had a tad more reverb, but perhaps a bit more edge as well.
> 
> ...


 

 Good reports coming so far on both versions.  Too bad on the TeraDak X1/X2 - it was a great little LPS one of the only low cost with two DC outputs.
  
 I give the Engineers you had listen credit - at least they were open to a 'sited listening comparison'


----------



## Clemmaster

Going Asic is a massive investment. Requires a big volume of sales to make it worth it.


----------



## robi20064

rb2013 said:


> No those are not the ones.  Must say three things!
> 1) GB LAN certified
> 2) Compatible with isosyrchron audio (even though we are using it with async audio)
> 3) have four USB ports.
> ...




Thanks Rob! So basically "only" model USB2G4LEXT2 would be good here from the StarTech ones like this:

https://www.ballicom.co.uk/usb2g4lext2-startech-com-4-port-usb-2-0-over-lan-.p1009343.html

Is it also neccessary to put one USB storage into all 4 ports?


----------



## rb2013

robi20064 said:


> Thanks Rob! So basically "only" model USB2G4LEXT2 would be good here from the StarTech ones like this:
> 
> https://www.ballicom.co.uk/usb2g4lext2-startech-com-4-port-usb-2-0-over-lan-.p1009343.html
> 
> Is it also neccessary to put one USB storage into all 4 ports?


It would be better if they had a more complete description. But I believe that is the correct one.


I don't think you need to use all USB ports.


----------



## rb2013

clemmaster said:


> Going Asic is a massive investment. Requires a big volume of sales to make it worth it.


I can't imagine that ICRON would have a demand for this version for more then a few thousand units, even with the OEMing for Startech. And at a price point of only a few hundred dollars wholesale, not much of a margin to recoup that big of an investment.

Now for a major DAC company like Chord, that's different. I'm sure they sell many more units, at prices in the thousands. Seems to me if ASIC had inherent sonic advantages they would be the first to exploit them.


----------



## rb2013

somestranger26 said:


> My Startech does not have the FPGA. I'm very impressed with the SQ improvement with just the SMPS that it came with. I'll get a Meiyan at some point.
> 
> If anything I would expect the ASIC to sound better because it will do less processing to achieve the same result, so it would probably dump less noise back into the power supply.


Looking more closely at the two boards, I noticed that the ASIC version uses two crystal clocks on the REX board, versus only one on the FPGA board.

I wonder why? Are they doing some clocking in the FPGA?


----------



## somestranger26

rb2013 said:


> Nice!  I hope you are right - maybe some one will send me their ASIC version for comparison. Good feedback - of course the SQ will improve with 100-200 hrs run time.
> 
> Now the ASIC is cheaper to make and has a lower price.  I would note that Chord uses the Xilinx SPARTAN 6 FPGA in their widley acclaimed totl DACs like the DAVE and Hugo TT.  If a ASIC could sound better and be cheaper to produce - I imagine they would be using one.


 
  
 As @Clemmaster said, ASIC is a very large up front investment. Likely $500,000+ to get the first set of chips back from the foundry. It also requires people who know how to design the circuitry, versus "just" FPGA programmers.
  
 There's also the issue of prototyping cost - if you're working on something very subjective like digital audio filters then you're going to want to keep changing the implementation to see if certain changes make improvements to the sound. This would be very, very expensive with ASICs since you'd have to go back to the foundry with your new design, then wait weeks for them to tool up and give you some sample chips. FPGAs are nearly purpose-built for fast prototyping since they're programmable.
  
 That is not to mention the upgradeability of FPGA audio solutions. PS Audio does this with their DirectStream DAC which uses some $$$ FPGA for the digital filters and DAC chip itself (I don't think it's the SPARTAN though) and they provide regular firmware updates that most listeners think improve the SQ of the DAC. These types of updates wouldn't be possible with an ASIC, and it's tough to get it right enough the first time to warrant an ASIC. Audio-GD actually released a new DAC called "Singularity-7" which uses the same concept for the programmable digital filters, although it still uses traditional PCM1704UK DAC chips behind the FPGA.
  
 I know Chord doesn't release the same type of firmware updates (maybe they managed to get it right the first time?), but the cost of making actual chips instead of just taking some off the shelf and programming them is likely prohibitive regardless of their size. High end audio is a pretty niche market and I doubt they're selling *thousands* of DAVEs. Plus, if the FPGA is good enough to be on top then it might not be worth it to invest in an ASIC. With the right power supply and everything the difference is probably small if any.
  
 I feel you might underestimate the quantity of these devices that Icron/Startech are selling given the huge numbers of distributors selling them and there are quite possibly some large enterprise customers who buy them in large quantities for certain purposes, similar to the Intona isolator's industrial niche. They probably went with FPGA because it's cheaper and they could continually iterate the firmware to the point where it's good enough to convert to ASIC, and then saw enough sales to warrant the investment relative to long-term cost savings.


----------



## rb2013

somestranger26 said:


>


 

 Good points - but just to mention that Chord uses the SPARTAN 6 FPGA across their entire line of DAC's - the Hugo, 2QUTE, Hugo TT - only the portable Mojo does not.  So it's just not their totl DAVE - but at roughly $10,000 per DAVE - even a hundred would equal the revenue from thousands of of this model Startech.
  
 The other point is that ICRON make a vast array of these USB extenders - most not as sophisticated as this version.  So they may sell a lot of USB extenders - I wonder how many of their totl ones?  At a wholesale price of $250 that would have to be a lot to recover the $500,000 up front cost of the ASIC.  Not to mention your points on design improvements, upgrades, etc...
  
 I will note that on the PS Audio site regarding the ICRON OEM'd (we think) ASIC LanRover - there have been some comments on compatibility issues. 
  
 I really hope the ASIC is better!  That would just take this amazing SQ to another height.  The of a separate crystal clock next to the ASIC design shows that the ASIC is not entirely a 'clone' of the SPARTAN FPGA.  If the SPARTAN is used for certain clocking functions - my thinking is the ASIC design may actually be better.  I'd bet a dedicated crystal clock would have lower jitter then a FGPA implemented clocking arrangement.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

somestranger26 said:


>


 

 Good points - but just to mention that Chord uses the SPARTAN 6 FPGA across their entire line of DAC's - the Hugo, 2QUTE, Hugo TT - only the portable Mojo does not.  So it's just not their totl DAVE - but at roughly $10,000 per DAVE - even a hundred would equal the revenue from thousands of this model Startech.
  
 The other point is that ICRON makes a vast array of these USB extenders - most not as sophisticated as this version.  So they may sell a lot of USB extenders - I wonder how many of their totl ones?  At a wholesale price of $250 that would have to be a lot to recover the $500,000 up front cost of the ASIC.  Not to mention your points on design improvements, upgrades, etc...
  
 I will note that on the PS Audio site regarding the ICRON OEM'd (we think) ASIC LanRover - there have been some comments on compatibility issues. 
  
 I really hope the ASIC is better!  That would just take this amazing SQ to another height.  The use of a separate crystal clock next to the ASIC design shows that the ASIC is not entirely a 'clone' of the SPARTAN FPGA.  If the SPARTAN is used for certain clocking functions - my thinking is the ASIC design may actually be better.  I'd bet a dedicated crystal clock would have lower jitter then a FGPA implemented clocking arrangement.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

As I mentioned the PS Audio LanRover uses the ASIC version of the ICRON/Startech (I believe) in a one port configuration - it sells for $600
  
 Here is an interesting review of the LanRover:
 https://audiobacon.net/2016/12/01/ps-audio-lanrover-review-vs-microrendu-uptone-ultracap-lps-1/
  


> It seems like these USB conditioners are quite prevalent in the audio space now. I’ve recently reviewed quite a few of them including the Uptone Regen, Wyred 4 Sound Recovery, Audioquest Jitterbug, and iFi nano iUSB3.0. I didn’t expect to have the LANRover as part of that review but figured it was a worthwhile experiment. Turns out, even as a desktop USB conditioner with the sender attached directly to the receiver, it absolutely blew away the rest of the cast. For that reason I wanted to dedicate an entire review for this wonderful device.


 


> *Interesting Findings:​*
> The stock Monoprice Ethernet cable didn’t cut it. The LANRover actually sounded very flat and dull without a better Ethernet cable between the sender and receiver. It’s a night & day difference in dynamics, clarity, imaging, bass response, and engagement. For this reason, I stuck with the SOtM dCBL-CAT6 cable for this review.
> Wireless setup: When plugging the sender into the WD My Net AC Wi-Fi bridge and MSI laptop and having the receiver plugged into another wireless ASUS EA-66 bridge and the Chord DAVE, the bass response was a bit bloated and the soundstage was collapsed. Still a very smooth sound but muddy and flat. Basically loses all musicality and energy.
> However, when the sender & receiver are directly attached to each other via a SOtM Ethernet cable, the bass tightens and the sound is much more open. It’s a huge sonic difference and I would expect these results if the network environment were optimal. For that reason I’ve kept it in this configuration for my tests.
> ...


 


> vs. Sonore microRendu & Uptone UltraCap LPS-1   *Snowflake – Lara Ruggles (From Out of an Eggshell) – PS Audio Sonoma Master Series – One (DSD64)*
> 
> PSA has an amazingly analog sound. I can’t stress how amazing smooth it sounds. A very natural, cohesive sound.
> mR has a bit more grain on the vocals. Bass response is much better. Much better layering. Much more engaging sound.
> ...


 


> Conclusions As mentioned in my review of the other USB conditioners, the PS Audio LANRover demolished the entire cast in the shootout. It wasn’t even close. Check out the raw notes in that review and you’ll get an idea of how amazing this device sounds. Now juxtaposing it with the microRendu and we have a fairer fight. Keep in mind the microRendu with LPS-1 combo does cost nearly double the LANRover at $1,035 vs the $599 of the LANRover. From my testing, the Ethernet cable used affected the sound enormously. I strongly suggest getting a SOtM CAT6 cable.
> I did mention the significant improvement of sound when connecting the receiver and sender directly together. Obviously this will limit the distance but it could also be the cheapo Ethernet cable in the chain when used in the stated wireless configuration. The sound is still great but the loss in dynamics is noticeable. My guess is if that Ethernet cable is swapped out, all the dynamics will return as the cheap Ethernet cables tend to squash the soundstage and dampen the dynamics quite a bit.
> When I first heard the LANRover my initial thought was “analog.” I didn’t hear any digital artifacts or obvious flaws in its presentation. It was very musical, very natural, and stupidly smooth. A side-by-side comparison to the microRendu and you start to hear some of the sonic differences. The mR has a more involved and engaging sound, pulling you into the action. It has a darker background, better separation/layering, more expansive soundstage, and just more vibrant. There is a bit more “grain” and a tiny bit of edgeness in the mids but overall a very fun and dynamic presentation.
> The PSA LANRover is more laid back and relaxed. I’m just taken aback at how convincing performers sound and how the music just flows. Goosebump-inducing is an understatement. To be honest, this could be a matter of preference as I know some listeners prefer this analog sound over the more forward and energetic sound of the microRendu. Both the mR and PSA have a natural tonality and timbre and sound fantastic. Needless to say, the PS Audio LANRover blew me away, especially at this price-point.


 
 Now to make for a more interesting comparison.  Take the LanRover and power the Sender with the LPS-1 and power the Receiver with another high quality LPS. 
  
 Better yet get the Startech (or ICRON) version and run some high capacity USB sticks for storage (even better a SLC microSD in a USB adpater) plugged in the Startech...better yet use an external DDC like the F-1 to feed the DAVE by SPDIF coax - run the Recovery>iPur2>F-1 following the Startech or PSA - bet it simply blows the mR away.


----------



## colour97

tried to install windows and fail again. then at this moment i will only use it for music storage until anyone can successfully install o/s.
  
 my fanless pc is 12v 5a, do you have any cheap suggestion for LPS, TERADAK don't provide noise figure, 
  
 burning in for nearly 100 hrs, startech sound is positive changing.“Agree the sonic is "analog.” don't feel any digital .
  
 last night got a day off, and listening for 5 hours music. paired or not paired startech with spring, this is 2 different dac. 
 it brings spring to another league.


----------



## Superdad

rb2013 said:


> Now to make for a more interesting comparison.  Take the LanRover and power the Sender with the LPS-1 and power the Receiver with another high quality LPS.


 
  
 Hi Rob:
  
 Thanks, but you have that backwards.  Powering the downstream (REX) DAC-connected end of the LAN Rover with the UtlraCap LPS-1 is what people are doing--with fabulous results.  The PS at the "Sender" (LEX) end does not matter very much.
  
 And on the ASIC versus FPGA thing: ICRON made the investment because they are now using that ASIC--with their ExtremeUSB protocol engine and other feature-ladden code--in virtually their entire line.  And if a company is big enough (or persuasive enough about true value-add) ICRON might even consider selling/licensing their ASIC to others.  But that is not happening quite yet.
 But there is zero reason for their to be any SQ difference between the FPGA and the ASIC units--unless they changed other things on the board.  It could certainly use a better clock! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
 P.S. Oh dear, I am sure someone is going to construe the above as either self promotion and/or criticizing another manufacturer's product.  I'm likely to get banned for sharing facts and knowledge.  You know, every time the mods send me a warning, they also invite me to become a paying sponsor here at Head-Fi.  Trouble is, I have sent over a half dozen messages, over as many months--to the advertising guy, to Jude, Joe, Currawong, etc.--asking for information, costs, etc. regarding sponsorships and advertising.  Have not received one single reply.  Maybe they will see this here.  Funny place...


----------



## Adosero

Lanrover's Rex requires 5v power while Startech/Icron Rex requires 24v, is that correct?


----------



## wakka992

adosero said:


> Lanrover's Rex requires 5v power while Startech/Icron Rex requires 24v, is that correct?


 
 Correct. I'd much prefer the LANRover/Icron with one usb port as I'm afraid you won't find cheap 24v LPS out there ... You'd loose the possibility of using usb pen or microsd to store music, so one must decide... decision decision


----------



## robi20064

Anyone had any experience with the fiber based Icron models?
  
 https://www.icronshop.com/icron-brand/icron-ranger-2244
  
 Interestingly both the LEX/REX require only 5v, still the price is about double versus the standard gigabit ones.


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Hi Rob:
> 
> Thanks, but you have that backwards.  Powering the downstream (REX) DAC-connected end of the LAN Rover with the UtlraCap LPS-1 is what people are doing--with fabulous results.  The PS at the "Sender" (LEX) end does not matter very much.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey Alex,

 Good to hear from you - I always appreciate your knowledgeable input - and as you know don't always agree with you!  But I learn from our debates.
  
 On the LanRover what is the voltage?  Since it only has one USB port it's likely much less then the 24VDC of the Startech/ICRON four port version.  It sounds like the LPS-1 has enough current to power it.
  
 Any thoughts as to why the ASIC has an extra clock crystal vs the FPGA? 
  
 BTW if anyone has a board photo of the REX end of the LanRover would love to see that.
  
 Good luck on the Sponsorship


----------



## rb2013

adosero said:


> Lanrover's Rex requires 5v power while Startech/Icron Rex requires 24v, is that correct?


 
 Ditto that question.  I assume it would be more then 5VDC to allow for the powering of the ASIC circuit and the +5VDC USB.
  


wakka992 said:


> Correct. I'd much prefer the LANRover/Icron with one usb port as I'm afraid you won't find cheap 24v LPS out there ... You'd loose the possibility of using usb pen or microsd to store music, so one must decide... decision decision


 
 Really?  More expensive and you lose the ability for running external SLC card or high capacity USB sticks for music storage.  There are one or two very good, low cost LPS's that can easily do 24VDC at high current.
  
 Seems like a no brainer


----------



## rb2013

robi20064 said:


> Anyone had any experience with the fiber based Icron models?
> 
> https://www.icronshop.com/icron-brand/icron-ranger-2244
> 
> Interestingly both the LEX/REX require only 5v, still the price is about double versus the standard gigabit ones.


 

 No but did try using a FMC  SMF boxes in between the LEX and REX.  Degraded the SQ until I powered each with their own LPS's.  Then the SQ was just about the same.  So I sold them.  No reason the much more expensive fiber ICRON's would be better - and very likely worse.
  
 If someone wanted to run long fiber between the LEX and REX - as fiber cables are easier to hide - it can be done fairly cheaply


----------



## rb2013

colour97 said:


> tried to install windows and fail again. then at this moment i will only use it for music storage until anyone can successfully install o/s.
> 
> my fanless pc is 12v 5a, do you have any cheap suggestion for LPS, TERADAK don't provide noise figure,
> 
> ...


 

 Good report
  
 This LPS 13uv noise: 5.5A @12VDC $150
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/131867485038?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Paulkouhan

I have just replaced the USB cable (with separated and isolated power line) between my NuC and the regen with a DIY Vbus Isolator (just one hole in a 5 bucks adapter ...).
 The improvement is huge !!
  
  

  
 I then replaced the second USB cable by a second USB adapter with no other audible change.
  
 Here it how it looks like !


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> I have just replaced the USB cable (with separated and isolated power line) between my NuC and the regen with a DIY Vbus Isolator (just one hole in a 5 bucks adapter ...).
> The improvement is huge !!
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What a beautiful looking chain!  But isn't that a W4S Recovery not a Regen?
  
 I have had similar success in modding Jitterbugs to also act as +5VDC VBUS blockers by clipping the 1 & 4 pins on the output USB terminal.
  
 I use one at the PC USB before a LH Labs 2G (data leg only) that runs to the LEX (power leg to a modded TeraDak X1)
  
 Another in the REX USB output to another 2G (data leg only) to the Recovery.  Recovery power by separate modded TeraDak DC-30W/DC iPur set to 9VDC.
  
 Even when using just the data legs on a split USB cable - blocking the VBUS output seems to smooth out the sound without sacrificing detail.
  
 How are you powering your Recovery?


----------



## rb2013

For anyone interested in the JB mod here it is:
  
 Clip the 1 & 4 on A female USB socket - the output side of the JB (left side).  Note this does not break the ground connection - or provide GI - only blocks the +5VDC power from entering the USB A female outlet.  There is some thinking that this prevents DC power RFI/EMI eddy currents from effecting the close proximity data 2 & 3 leads - effecting data stream SI.


----------



## Paulkouhan

rb2013 said:


> How are you powering your Recovery?


 
  
 You are right it is a recovery ...
  
 I power it with a 0.8uV diY power supply made with this kit :
  
http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/accessories0/73-08uv-ultralow-noise-dac-power-supply-regulator-33v5v-1ax2.html


----------



## wakka992

rb2013 said:


> Really?  More expensive and you lose the ability for running external SLC card or high capacity USB sticks for music storage.  There are one or two very good, low cost LPS's that can easily do 24VDC at high current.
> 
> Seems like a no brainer


 
 Hi rb,
 I wouldn't buy the PSAudio one, it's overpriced, I'd wait for the Icron OEM (if it ever get released).
  
 I still don't know if I need the 4 port Icron as all my music is on my NAS so I won't use usb pen to playback. Now if there's a way to "pre-buffer" songs or album from the NAS to the usb pen before play them with foobar2000 or JRiver that would be great --> you'd get huge NAS storage space and usb sticks benefits.


----------



## Paulkouhan

I just cut the +5V leg on my adapter. I have read somewhere that the ground should be left uncut .. ??
  
 .. I have another adapter I will try to cut the ground pin too....


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> You are right it is a recovery ...
> 
> I power it with a 0.8uV diY power supply made with this kit :
> 
> http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/accessories0/73-08uv-ultralow-noise-dac-power-supply-regulator-33v5v-1ax2.html


 
 Nice board - but it's only 5VDC - is that enough for the Recovery.  The Recovery needs 7-9VDC - it has to power it's own CCHD-575 clock and LDO regulators and still put out 5VDC to the USB


----------



## Paulkouhan

rb2013 said:


> Nice board - but it's only 5VDC - is that enough for the Recovery.  The Recovery needs 7-9VDC - it has to power it's own CCHD-575 clock and LDO regulators and still put out 5VDC to the USB


 
  
  
 right again ...
  
 I made a "quad power" supply with one "5V" card and the 9V one ...
  
 http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/88-08uv-ultralow-noise-dac-power-supply-regulator-91215v-15ax2.html


----------



## rb2013

wakka992 said:


> Hi rb,
> I wouldn't buy the PSAudio one, it's overpriced, I'd wait for the Icron OEM (if it ever get released).
> 
> I still don't know if I need the 4 port Icron as all my music is on my NAS so I won't use usb pen to playback. Now if there's a way to "pre-buffer" songs or album from the NAS to the usb pen before play them with foobar2000 or JRiver that would be great --> you'd get huge NAS storage space and usb sticks benefits.


 
 Well good point  - as Alex says it looks like ICRON will be using the same  ASIC across there USB/Ethernet extender lineup.  So not far down the road that will be a cheaper option.
  
 I have been researching the pre-buffering idea to the SLC 4GB MicroSD I have coming.  Maybe a way to set-up a virtual 'RAM disk' on the SLC to run Foobar?
  
 In terms of SQ the USB sticks are a major step up and even better the SLC mSD.  With the price of very high capacity quality USB drives now available - I'd think it would be worth the slightly extra cost of the four port version.
  
 Some one had asked about combining say three USB flashdrive to appear as one drive.  Here is a Youtube video that explains exactly how to do that as a RAID drive:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo4GhAiGBIQ


----------



## Paulkouhan

paulkouhan said:


> I made a "quad power" supply with one "5V" card and the 9V one ...


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> I just cut the +5V leg on my adapter. I have read somewhere that the ground should be left uncut .. ??
> 
> .. I have another adapter I will try to cut the ground pin too....


 
 It may not make much difference as the USB shield continues the ground - if only cutting the ground pin would provide GI so easily.  I tested it and it's true - on the JB with the ground pin severed
  


paulkouhan said:


> right again ...
> 
> I made a "quad power" supply with one "5V" card and the 9V one ...
> 
> http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/88-08uv-ultralow-noise-dac-power-supply-regulator-91215v-15ax2.html


 
 Nice! Did you use a heat sink or fan?  Was 500mA enough for the iPur2 and F-1( it looks like a iPur2 after the Recovery)
  


> For linear regulator, all unused voltage is converted to heat, if the PCB is used for output larger than 0.5A current continuously, depends on the room temperture, larger heatsink and fan is needed. The same usage method is applied to all linear regulator in the market. The operating temperature should always keep below the rated maximum operating temperature as listed in the manufacturer official datasheet.
> The murata EMI filter used in the PCB is rated 0.5A at 60degrees celsius from the manufacturer. As most modern DAC uses less than 0.5A per rail, we choose the highest inductance in the series. The filter can actually deliver larger than 0.5A if it can keep below 60degree. The PCB can also delivery larger than 1A if the temperature can keep low. The theoretical maximum is calculated from the current boost transistor combined with the 4.7ohm base emitter resistor, it can burst upto 15A output current!
> As the PCB can actually output higher than 1A, the first overheat component will be the input choke, the second is the full bridge diode rectifier. The transistor is rated at maximum 15A, the LT3042 has internal current limit and overheat protection will survive.
> If the operating temperature is too high, user should bypass or replace the EMI filter with lower inductance in the series which generate less heat but the drawback is less noise filtered.


----------



## Paulkouhan

rb2013 said:


> Nice! Did you use a heat sink or fan?  Was 500mA enough for the iPur2 and F-1( it looks like a iPur2 after the Recovery)


 
  
 I asked myself the same question ...
  
 I tried the standard heatsink and checked the temperature after several hours of use, it was ok.


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> I asked myself the same question ...
> 
> I tried the standard heatsink and checked the temperature after several hours of use, it was ok.


 

 I like that DIYinHK combine two LT3042's to get higher output - but still wonder how they get 1.5A surge and 500mA continous from two 200mA LT3042's?
  
 http://www.linear.com/product/LT3042
  
 I wonder they'll make a similar LT3045 board.
  
 I'll have to order up one of these.  What voltage transformer did you use?


----------



## Paulkouhan

rb2013 said:


> I'll have to order up one of these.  What voltage transformer did you use?


 
  
 R-CORE 30VA 2x9V for the 5V card
 R-CORE 30VA 2x12V for the 9V card


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> R-CORE 30VA 2x9V for the 5V card
> R-CORE 30VA 2x12V for the 9V card


 

 30VA isn't that to much?
  


> *Attention****
> 1) According to the LT3042 official datasheet the maximum input voltage is 20V. Therefore, extra care should be taken when choosing the transformer, there are some transformer on the market labelled as 18V output but the output can be as high as 28V! when the loading is low. The LT3042 chip will be damaged immediately if the voltage is larger than the input maximum limit. The measured DC voltage at the large capacitor must lower then 20V all the time during any low and high loading current output condition. (Please notes the labelled AC output voltage value is not the voltage of most transformer during no loading, user can measure the AC RMS value output from the transformer, multiple it by 1.414 and minus 1. It is the DC voltage after the full bridge rectifier(there is about 1V voltage drop in the full bridge rectifier diode)


----------



## Paulkouhan

rb2013 said:


> 30VA isn't that to much?


 
  
 30VA is the max power of the transformer !
  
 9V  AC for the 5V board
 12V  AC for the 9V board


----------



## Spark85

I have to thank you again Rb2013, I'm hallucinating right now listening to music. I'm totally happy. Music and sound is everything to me.
  
 I have put a DC Purifier on the REX, I have a M51 NAD, an HDVD800 and some HD800 and I am amazed at the transparency and cleanliness in the sound.
 I appreciate and with a device that is not designed for audio. Incredible amount of tiny details that can be heard which were hidden. Small but at the same time very clear and soft
 I have the feeling of listening to the sound with total purity.
  
 I am clear now that audio formats are not my problem, nor the choice of expensive cables, is the noise that is introduced everywhere and are solved with examples like this.
 Even a simple .mp3 is ringing me with a number of details that previously went unnoticed. Sounds different to me.


 Tell me Rb2013 ¿Do you know anyone who has tried this system, who has not noticed any difference? Is it possible that there is some equipment that is sufficiently well designed, so that this combination is not useful for that system?
  
 It could be, that my system had a great margin of improvement and others instead, not so much or nothing.
  
 In my case it has been ideal, but this would be important for some when avoiding a high cost.


----------



## Spark85

I will try to put all the plates in the same enclosure, either the DAC or Singxer itself.
   

 I have tried to power the LEX with an iFi Nano output, without powering the PC and the SU-1 has not recognized me. I have to find out the cause.

 Sorry RB2013 if I reiterate the question, the language is a small problem for me, and I have not been clear what kind of memory to put in the REX ¿An a SD card reader? Or a pendrive? Any specific type or model?


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> 30VA is the max power of the transformer !
> 
> 9V  AC for the 5V board
> 12V  AC for the 9V board


 

 Great - I have a nice 12V copper shielded R-Core I can use.
  
 I'll order one up today
  
 Thanks!


----------



## rb2013

spark85 said:


> I have to thank you again Rb2013, I'm hallucinating right now listening to music. I'm totally happy. Music and sound is everything to me.
> 
> I have put a DC Purifier on the REX, I have a M51 NAD, an HDVD800 and some HD800 and I am amazed at the transparency and cleanliness in the sound.
> I appreciate and with a device that is not designed for audio. Incredible amount of tiny details that can be heard which were hidden. Small but at the same time very clear and soft
> ...


 

 Nice Headphones and HP amp.
  
 You are hearing what I'm hearing - great depth of detail.  These details include the subtle ambient reflections in the recording.  These signals are what the brain uses to re-create the 3D image - the holographic-ness of the sound field.  So hard to accurately reproduce - yet so important.  The difference in a sound stage of flatish 2D cardboard cutouts staggered in the sound field.  The aliveness or realism is the recreation of sound point sources hanging in space. Not just the strong signal frontal wave - but the very low level back and side reflections.
  
 Well after my 2 year long trail (this is the 4th major thread I have started on just digital bridges of various types between the PC and the DAC) this great success. 
  
 If you read those other threads - there has been much verification by others of the step by step improvements.  Starting with the Gustard U12 (actually my journey started 10 yrs ago with the 1394B Firewire RME800 - long before USB 2.0 Audio) thread.
  
 So I have had a very long experience in a highly resolving system both speaker and headphone.  And a crazy expensive analog journey before that ending with a $30K near sota LP rig.
  
 This is the real deal - the best ever!  Trounces that analog system and any other source I have heard.  And the cost is quite reasonable.
  
 But I will be visiting a friend with a very high end system in a few weeks.  PS Audio Perfect Wave, maxed out OR5, VAC amps and pre-amp, YG Acoustic speakers, etc...   Will bring my entire digital front end over for a comparison.  Should be interesting.
  
 Cheers!
 So I wanted to see if it was just me and my system or


----------



## rb2013

spark85 said:


> I will try to put all the plates in the same enclosure, either the DAC or Singxer itself.
> 
> 
> I have tried to power the LEX with an iFi Nano output, without powering the PC and the SU-1 has not recognized me. I have to find out the cause.
> ...


 

 Well for me I use two PNY 256GB USB Sticks  and one 4GB SLC Panasonic microSD card.  I bought the SLC from Digikey (beware Chinese sellers - many fakes around).  I bought the PNY's at Bestbuy for $42 each.
  
 As soon as the 512GB prices come down will get a couple of those for more storage capacity.


----------



## Superdad

rb2013 said:


> I like that DIYinHK combine two LT3042's to get higher output - but still wonder how they get 1.5A surge and 500mA continous from two 200mA LT3042's?
> 
> http://www.linear.com/product/LT3042
> 
> ...


 

 They use transistors to increase the current.  That's what's on those heat sinks.
  
 The thing people need to realize when reading specs and claims--especially when the lovely but low current LT3042 is used, but really with all supplies where an LDO plus a transistor is used--is that the actual output noise, once an external transistor is used, is far higher than the spec of the LDO.  By how much depends upon both the design of the LDO (and how it acts with an external transistor) and the design of the supply overall.  But in no universe is that linked board a 0.8uV supply.  It should only be that easy...


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> They use transistors to increase the current.  That's what's on those heat sinks.
> 
> The thing people need to realize when reading specs and claims--especially when the lovely but low current LT3042 is used, but really with all supplies where an LDO plus a transistor is used--is that the actual output noise, once an external transistor is used, is far higher than the spec of the LDO.  By how much depends upon both the design of the LDO (and how it acts with an external transistor) and the design of the supply overall.  But in no universe is that linked board a 0.8uV supply.  It should only be that easy...


 
 Great info - thanks Alex.
  
 So this board uses a LT3042 and a single transistor as well?   I read the numbers it's a D45VH10 - NPN Transistor.  The four square boxs are rectifiers
  

 And this one a single LT3045 (500mA output) - but no transistor?  Why don't more of these kit makers use the LT3045 vs the LT3042?  Seems like they can get away from having to use that transistor to up the current.  I see the LT3045 clearly on this board - not on the one above.


----------



## Superdad

rb2013 said:


> On the LanRover what is the voltage?  Since it only has one USB port it's likely much less then the 24VDC of the Startech/ICRON four port version.  It sounds like the LPS-1 has enough current to power it.
> 
> Any thoughts as to why the ASIC has an extra clock crystal vs the FPGA?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 The LANRover runs from 5 volts. And yes, the LPS-1 handles it easily, often with another device (using a "Y" cable) such as the REGEN or RuR--since signal integrity/impedance match is not a focus of these bridges.
  
 ICRON's choice to supply a 24VDC wart has nothing to do with the number of ports.  It is simply because they chose a DC-DC switching regulator that has that range (one can run it from much less--if you have a little more current available) and smaller, lower current wall warts at higher voltage are cheaper than higher-current/lower voltage units.
  
 There is NOTHING inside any of these digital devices that uses ANY voltage above 5V.  Most every chip is really down at 3.3V, 1.2V, or 1.1V.  But the regulators have to have something to regulate down to (though buck/boost switching regs are everywhere these days).
  
 As for the extra clock:  I think it has to do with the FPGA version having PLLs to generate other needed clock frequencies.  The components on these USB LAN extenders which require a clock are:
 1) The Ethernet PHY;
 2) The processor itself (FPGA or ASIC);
 3) The USB PHYs (which in the case of ICRON's tech are part of their core ExtremeUSB protocol engine (their IP loaded into the FPGA or ASIC)
  
 Hope that clears up a little.  
  
 Best,
 --Alex C.


----------



## Superdad

rb2013 said:


> Why don't more of these kit makers use the LT3045 vs the LT3042?


 
  
 Because the 3045 came out just last October.


----------



## rb2013

Sorry for straying so far off course on this LPS stuff - but it's really important to getting good results with the F-1, Startech/ICRON, Recovery, etc...
  
 I love Alex's LPS-1 but it's a bit expensive - especially if you need more then one.  Just looking for some lower cost solutions.
  
 Here is a top down photo of the LT3042 board the LT3042 is the tiny device in the middle of the board.


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Because the 3045 came out just last October.


 

 I see said the blind man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  More good stuff to come then


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> The LANRover runs from 5 volts. And yes, the LPS-1 handles it easily, often with another device (using a "Y" cable) such as the REGEN or RuR--since signal integrity/impedance match is not a focus of these bridges.
> 
> ICRON's choice to supply a 24VDC wart has nothing to do with the number of ports.  It is simply because they chose a DC-DC switching regulator that has that range (one can run it from much less--if you have a little more current available) and smaller, lower current wall warts at higher voltage are cheaper than higher-current/lower voltage units.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes - makes good sense - and a good point on needing the RuR (Recovery) or Regen for impedance matching - although I have a theory for why the SQ improves so much with these - there is an improvement in SI by the remapping of the IP packets back to USB packets.
  
 I choose a 24VDC LPS as that was the voltage of the SMPS. - If someone was using all four ports - but not to power a DDC or DAC - I wonder what the min voltage it could run?  Maybe a 7VDC LPS-1 would be enough?  A 'Y' to the Recovery as well?

 Fortunately the MEIYAN LPS was available with that voltage and reasonable noise levels at an attractive price.
  
 My thinking about the clocks is that the FPGA PLL would have higher jitter then a decent XO crystal.
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## Paulkouhan

AM I A LUCKY GUY ?
  
http://www.materiel.net/cable-adaptateur-usb/startech-com-extendeur-usb-sur-cat5-ou-cat6-avec-4-ports-90148.html


----------



## Paulkouhan

hmmm not available ...


----------



## colour97

paulkouhan said:


> AM I A LUCKY GUY ?
> 
> http://www.materiel.net/cable-adaptateur-usb/startech-com-extendeur-usb-sur-cat5-ou-cat6-avec-4-ports-90148.html


 
 of course you are.............................not, this is *USB2004EXT2 *.


----------



## robi20064

Indeed, that one looks like the non-gigabit cheap(er) StarTech model.


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> AM I A LUCKY GUY ?
> 
> http://www.materiel.net/cable-adaptateur-usb/startech-com-extendeur-usb-sur-cat5-ou-cat6-avec-4-ports-90148.html


 

 No - wrong one.  Must say GB LAN and Iso audio


----------



## rb2013

robi20064 said:


> Indeed, that one looks like the non-gigabit cheap(er) StarTech model.


 

 Righto - and not the one.  I tried something similar in a Startech brand.  Sound was horrible - Amazon return


----------



## Paulkouhan

just cancelled the order ... it had a 50% discount...
 Find THE ONE at 490 € ...


----------



## rb2013

Received my 4GB Panasonic SLC microSd card yesterday from Digikey.
  
 Cold out of the insanely large box - vs the PNY 256GB - again a very noticeable improvement.  Maybe even better then the Apacer 256MB SLC.  Running in now for 100 hrs to then give another comparison listen.
  
 So far greater clarity and dynamics - incremental - but easily heard. 
  

  
  
 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electronic-components/RP-SMSC04DA1/P17013-ND/5119420


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> just cancelled the order ... it had a 50% discount...
> Find THE ONE at 490 € ...


 

 Yes unfortunately they are somewhat expensive


----------



## Paulkouhan

> Originally Posted by *rb2013* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> So far greater clarity and dynamics - incremental - but easily heard.


 
  
  
 How do you plan to use this 4Gb card ?
 Do you have to copy the tracks you want to listen each time by hand ?


----------



## Paulkouhan

rb2013 said:


> Yes unfortunately they are somewhat expensive


 
 I have the finger on the trigger ...
  
  
 Can you tell me the difference between
  
 Ultra USB chain (details to long to list)                                       370
  
 AND
  
 Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2/Startech GB LAN Iso USB         170
  
 Is the startech GB LAN Iso USB another device ? (not the USB2G4LEXT2)


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> How do you plan to use this 4Gb card ?
> Do you have to copy the tracks you want to listen each time by hand ?


 

 Well I'm hoping to work out a buffering scheme.
  
 But in the meantime - I load the 8 albums I may listen to over the next few days.  It only takes a few minutes.  Then create a Foobar playlist for them - that is really easy - just select 'Add Folder' select the SLC drive (it mounts as a separate Windows drive letter). Click OK and all the tracks on the SLC load by album - cover art as well.
  
 Then just select the album to listen to from there.
  
 Of course if I change my mind and don't feel like spending the extra effort to re-load something else - I just flip over to my PNY USB directed playlists.  I have one for Rock, Alt, Emo, Vocals, Jazz, etc...That takes a few seconds.
  
 It's not a dramatic SQ difference - so like playing music in background not needed - but for critical listening it's a nice option to have.  And the cost was minimal.
  
 Anybody who gets the one port LanRover vs the four port Startech/ICRON is really missing out on this great opportunty (as well as spending more money).


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> I have the finger on the trigger ...
> 
> 
> Can you tell me the difference between
> ...


 

 Yes - the keys differences are #1 low noise LPS's on the REX and LEX, modded JB's on the PC and REX, removal of the Curious USB cable link between the Recovery and iPur2, and the use of PNY USB sticks for music playback.  On the REX first the LT1083 LPS then the MEIYAN with a silver Teddy Pardo DC cable.  Note the change from the expensive Cerious Tech Graphene Extreme PC on the TeraDak DC-30W feeding the Recovery - to a generic Silver/Nobium Epitome PC.  Sold the CT GE (wish I had kept it).  Swapped out a Forza Audio split copper between the PC and LEX for another LH Labs 2G.
  
 Also on music server SSD for OS, and Fidelizer Pro optimizer.
  
 The biggest changes occurred with the LPS on the REX, the PNY USB music playback, and Fidelizer Pro (Purist).
  
 I should note that all these changes were done incrementally over many months of trial and change.  Keeping what advanced the SQ - deleting what didn't.  Trying as best as I could to eliminate unnecessary stuff and trying to min cost.
  
 PS - I would say the use of the 4GB SLC for music file playback would add another 20-30 points to the Ultra Chain rating.


----------



## robi20064

Rob, have you tried loading tracks straight into memory with plugins like this?
  
 http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_ramdisk
  
 I'm not entirely sure if playing from RAM or playing from an USB attached to the StarTech would make a different from the PC perspective. In both case the playback software needs the data in memory for processing prio sending to the DAC.


----------



## rb2013

I should note the nearly 100 jump from the pretty extreme AOIP chain to the 'Ultra USB' Chain - is pretty dramatic.  This is partly due to more critical listening over many months (and much attempted tweaking) to the AOIP chain.  At first the gain in detail, and bass depth was really fun.  But as time went on (for months) I found myself losing interest in the music.  There was a sterile or clinical quality to the sound.  I am a complete 'tone' head.  Tone comes first for me.  It has to be natural and rich - harmonic textures easily discernible.  But neutral as well - not overly euphonic or 'wooly', nor thinnish airy.  A tough task for any system.
  
 I even had the Startech listed for sale in the classifieds, initially.  But decided to keep it in my office system.  Boy am I glad I did!
  
 Meantime - someone PM'd me asking if I had tried using a USB stick for music file playback in one of the open USB ports on the REX.  Never even occurred to me to try that.  Took an old 4GB USB stick I had lying around and gave it a go - nice, very nice!
  
 So when I noticed this boredom factor with AOIP - I thought hard about what was missing?  Took the Startech 'Uber' chain (now with the USB stick for playback) back down to the main listening room...and I was pleased to hear that tonal 'rightness' return. But now with greater detail and bass depth then before, but not quite to the level of the best of AOIP.  But track after track the emotional connection returned.  I also noticed more dynamic slam then before (one thing the PNY USB sticks helped with) - more realism and excitement.
  
 I then worked on trying to get the detail and bass of the AOIP without sacrificing the tonal beauty of the Uber USB chain. That was not only achieved - but exceeded by a large measure - and with even greater tonal density then before with the Uber USB chain.

 Eureka!  So I started this thread - to not only continue where the XU208/F-1 thread ended - but to blase further this hybrid USB/Ethernet trail.
  
 I can not state enough what a sea change this has been in  SQ and the listening experience.  Things that just passby me by on recordings I had heard thousands of times were revealed.  Not just individual details (more were revealed) but a new experiencing of the entire production - more a whole cloth experience.  Like I have said it has changed the way I listen to and appreciate music - now after 30+yrs - that truly is amazing to me.  It was a shock at first, now many weeks later it's become the norm, but no less exciting.
  
 Now extending further with the SLC card.


----------



## rb2013

robi20064 said:


> Rob, have you tried loading tracks straight into memory with plugins like this?
> 
> http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_ramdisk
> 
> I'm not entirely sure if playing from RAM or playing from an USB attached to the StarTech would make a different from the PC perspective. In both case the playback software needs the data in memory for processing prio sending to the DAC.


 

 Yes - that was an old foobar plugin - now obsolete with the newer version.
  
 I suggest anyone who hasn't try the free Fidelizer and read their instructions for optimizing Foobar:
  
 http://www.fidelizer-audio.com
  
 Now some players like Bug Head Emperor/Infinity Blade - do have this functionality (that is to buffer from a SDcard) - but I'm not changing my music player. I love Foobar and I feel it fits my needs.
 http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/1553-infinity-blade-hq-bug-head-emperor-worth-trying/


----------



## rb2013

Creating a RAMDisk is not hard in Windows.  Creating a 'virtual' RAMdisk on an external USB drive to buffer music file playing in Foobar is.
 https://www.tekrevue.com/tip/create-10-gbs-ram-disk-windows/
  
 RAMdisks are designed to speed processing by creating a 'virtual' HDD/SDD in PC RAM.  Not the other way around - that is run RAM loaded programs in a USB 'virtual disk'.  At least not that I have been able to discover.  But I'm no computer engineer.  But it seems the transfer speeds may be just to slow to work effectively at the OS level.


----------



## robi20064

Actually I'm a computer engineer, and that's why I would like to figure out how could one have any SQ improvement by putting an USB (even SLC) into the StarTech versus playing from ramdisk. If the StarTech would act as a streamer and could pre-process the data (just like a microrendu) from the USB, than it could send it to your DAC directly, skipping the route back and forth to your PC. Reality is, it's not a streamer.


----------



## rb2013

robi20064 said:


> Actually I'm a computer engineer, and that's why I would like to figure out how could one have any SQ improvement by putting an USB (even SLC) into the StarTech versus playing from ramdisk. If the StarTech would act as a streamer and could pre-process the data (just like a microrendu) from the USB, than it could send it to your DAC directly, skipping the route back and forth to your PC. Reality is, it's not a streamer.


 

 Great question!  And why does a SSD sound better then a HDD  - they do for me.  Funny I tried two SSD's to run my OS - one a lowly 120GB PNY 1311 and the other a blazing fast 240GB CS2211.  They sound virtually identical to me. But versus a WD 2TB Black - night and day.
  
 Now a RAMdisk is playing from the PC MB RAM in a noisy EMI/RFI environment - maybe not optimal for music playback.  The moving of the music file storage conversion from steady sate to active data stream is now done in a 'clean' ultra low noise LPS powered environment.  The SSD reducing the power demands dramatically on the PC PS.
  
 Didn't think the mR didn't need a PC for audio player playback?  But don't even start with DNLA/UpNP - they have huge issues of their own - see the posts on the first few pages - like this one:
  
More interesting quotes from this CA thread (I added the bolding):
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/ravenna-streamer-24708/#post433300
  
  
  
 Quote:


> 09-15-2014, 02:07 PM#33​​
> *Miska*
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rb2013

There have been many comments posted in various forums about the superiority of USB/microSD/PCIe ext SSD versus playing music files from a SSD or HDD inside the PC.  Now maybe running a SSD (with SLCp cache) on an external PCIe enclosure with it's own LPS could be as good or better then these simple USB sticks or microSD SLC cards in the REX - but that would entail a lot of addition cost.  If you already are using the Startech/ICRON for audio USB playback - the cost of $50-$60 to add a high capacity USB stick or low capacity mircoSD SLC is pretty minor.
  
 I love Engineers - they need to have a scientific explanation for everything.   But they fail to realize that much cutting edge science was done on an empirical basis - only latter did the theories come to 'explain' it.  Like in Quantum Mechanics - it all started with  a 'simple' paper by Einstein on 'black body' radiation - leading to the idea of light quanta.  Or Rutherford's scattering experiments - leading to idea that atoms had components and a nucleus, or Young's double slit experiments pointing to a wave like nature to matter, etc..
  
 By using our ears we are doing the same thing - empirical study - subject yes - but if many agree to these subject positives - that makes for validity.  Without the need for 'cause of action' to be completely understood.
  
 http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/1553-infinity-blade-hq-bug-head-emperor-worth-trying/page-170
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f7-disk-storage-music-library-storage/does-solid-state-drive-sound-better-hard-disk-1650/index4.html


----------



## mozes

rb2013 said:


> There have been many comments posted in various forums about the superiority of USB/microSD/PCIe ext SSD versus playing music files from a SSD or HDD inside the PC.  Now maybe running a SSD (with SLCp cache) on an external PCIe enclosure with it's own LPS could be as good or better then these simple USB sticks or microSD SLC cards in the REX - but that would entail a lot of addition cost.  If you already are using the Startech/ICRON for audio USB playback - the cost of $50-$60 to add a high capacity USB stick or low capacity mircoSD SLC is pretty minor.
> 
> I love Engineers - they need to have a scientific explanation for everything.   But they fail to realize that much cutting edge science was done on an empirical basis - only latter did the theories come to 'explain' it.  Like in Quantum Mechanics - it all started with  a 'simple' paper by Einstein on 'black body' radiation - leading to the idea of light quanta.  Or Rutherford's scattering experiments - leading to idea that atoms had components and a nucleus, or Young's double slit experiments pointing to a wave like nature to matter, etc..
> 
> ...


 
 Hi, what a great thread you are leading here, a lot of great information and can be overwhelming for someone not too technical like me. I like your idea of an external PCI enclosure with an SSD drive to play music. I have a laptop that I use for music and I would like to test this concept of yours. Kindly, can you share some links to parts needed to build this solution with a Win 10 laptop? Thanks


----------



## robi20064

From a scientific pov the SSD vs HDD difference at least can be explained. The HDD is based on a moving platter(s) and having an internal motor to make it spin, reading stored data on a "magnetic" way, while the SSD is basically "only" a set of memory chips. Even if you take out the speed differences from the equation there shall be still additional  EMI/RFI associated with HDDs.
  
 Your PC might be still noisy for EMI/RFI, but the point is, no matter if the data (music) is stored on the USB attached to the StarTech or on the internal SSD in the PC or in RAMdisk, at the end it will be copied into your RAM in all 3 cases. The playback software simple cannot process is on any other way. In your StarTech example, it will open the files from the USB attached to the REX, allocate memory for data from your PC memory, read data from USB to the allocated PC memory, process it (depending on the playback application) and finally send it to your DAC through the StarTech again from the PC memory. In a case of a microrendu your PC acts only as a "controller" telling the rendu what to process. After that the rendu will open the file (most of the times from a LAN share / NAS using the network), read it into the rendu's internal memory, process it, and finally send it to the DAC which is directly attached to it. This way any EMI/RFI in your PC shall not affect the processing of data. The difference between options such as DLNA/Roon/HQP and others is about how data reaching the microrendu box.
  
 Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning what you "hear" with all these improvements in your chain, but I would still like to backup some of the "assumptions" with facts or science 
  
 I'm still heavily thinking of getting a StarTech/Icron for my setup, however - if I'm being honest to myself - I'm not sure I have good enough ears to notice the difference - even if there is going to be any.


----------



## Mr Underhill

*Robi,*
  
 The system you have described, and the movement of the data, is a gross simplification and ignores numerous factors. Ultimately I think with much of what we are dealing with in our audio systems the best measuring system we have is our ears. If you find the differences small or unappreciable then you can just ignore them. Unfortunately  generally the only way to know is to try.
  
 In a post I did a couple of days ago I reported that I had some audio engineers around to listen to my system, one they know well and have listened to before. Now these guys do have good ears. In one case I had ripped a 5.1 soundtrack from a DVD and converted it to PCM16, and they spotted it; and believe me it sounds very good. They were flabbergasted that the same file played from the StarTech sounded different from when it was played from my NAS - and I haven't added the LPSUs yet.
  
 The complexities in this area are enormous, and although I have read a lot I do not pretend to really understand what is going on, although I can throw a lot of jargon around. I enjoyed this interview:
  
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/ces-2017-conversation-juergen-reis-mbl-and-john-atkinson
  
 Go to 13min.
  
*M*


----------



## Superdad

robi20064 said:


> From a scientific pov the SSD vs HDD difference at least can be explained. The HDD is based on a moving platter(s) and having an internal motor to make it spin, reading stored data on a "magnetic" way, while the SSD is basically "only" a set of memory chips. Even if you take out the speed differences from the equation there shall be still additional  EMI/RFI associated with HDDs.
> 
> Your PC might be still noisy for EMI/RFI, but the point is, no matter if the data (music) is stored on the USB attached to the StarTech or on the internal SSD in the PC or in RAMdisk, at the end it will be copied into your RAM in all 3 cases. The playback software simple cannot process is on any other way. In your StarTech example, it will open the files from the USB attached to the REX, allocate memory for data from your PC memory, read data from USB to the allocated PC memory, process it (depending on the playback application) and finally send it to your DAC through the StarTech again from the PC memory. In a case of a microrendu your PC acts only as a "controller" telling the rendu what to process. After that the rendu will open the file (most of the times from a LAN share / NAS using the network), read it into the rendu's internal memory, process it, and finally send it to the DAC which is directly attached to it. This way any EMI/RFI in your PC shall not affect the processing of data. The difference between options such as DLNA/Roon/HQP and others is about how data reaching the microrendu box.
> 
> ...


 

 Most of the differences between SSD vs. HD (or between an awful lot of any of the other stuff in computer audio playback) can be seen and explained by looking closely at the bursty patterns of current draw and the ground-plane noise modulation that comes from the device and goes into the power supplies of the rest of the system.  That's why such gains are made with separate supplies.
  
 With regards to the route that data from a USB stick in the spare Starch/ICRON port takes:
 Remember, even though that end of the extender is--with its other USB port--feeding the DAC, the data gets read from the stick, sent back over the Ethernet lines (direct or through a switch), to the local (LEX) end of the extender, then into the computer's USB port, through the OS, into RAM, then played by the player s/w, back though the audio drivers, back out the USB port, back into the Startech, back over Ethernet, through the switch, to the REX end Starch/ICRON box, and finally out its USB port to the DAC.  Whew...  The Starch/ICRON is not doing any rendering or shortening of the path. 
  
 I'm not saying that what Rob is hearing in not real.  But I think the reasons for it may be different than what are assumed.


----------



## Superdad

mr underhill said:


> *Robi,*
> 
> The complexities in this area are enormous, and although I have read a lot I do not pretend to really understand what is going on, although I can throw a lot of jargon around. I enjoyed this interview:
> 
> ...


 
  
 What Juergen of MBL is speaking of at minute 13--the "back doors of influence"--are AC "leakage loops," a term coined (I think) by my partner John Swenson, and are indeed a huge factor in every audio system, especially those with computers.  (I may get in trouble for saying so here, but on November 18th, 2016 Mr. Reis wrote to me and purchased one of our UltraCap LPS-1 units precisely because they block the path of leakage loops.)  
  
 Isolating power and eliminating AC leakage (which rides on DC cables, on analog cables, on chassis--between all components that have power supplies) is among the last major frontiers for making big strides in SQ.  An awful lot of what is being heard and discussed--here, in other threads, and elsewhere--is primarily caused by current draw bursty patterns and AC leakage loops.
  
  
 [Again, if the mods wish to censor the above, then please finally answer one of my many messages requesting information on sponsoring here at Head-Fi.  Your readership enjoys participation by and educational information from members-of-the-trade. And as seen on that other forum I call home, no one would ever label me a hype engine or marketeer.  40 years a music lover, audiophile, and yes, a hobbyist and manufacturer.]
  
 Cheers,
  
 --Alex C.


----------



## rb2013

robi20064 said:


> From a scientific pov the SSD vs HDD difference at least can be explained. The HDD is based on a moving platter(s) and having an internal motor to make it spin, reading stored data on a "magnetic" way, while the SSD is basically "only" a set of memory chips. Even if you take out the speed differences from the equation there shall be still additional  EMI/RFI associated with HDDs.
> 
> Your PC might be still noisy for EMI/RFI, but the point is, no matter if the data (music) is stored on the USB attached to the StarTech or on the internal SSD in the PC or in RAMdisk, at the end it will be copied into your RAM in all 3 cases. The playback software simple cannot process is on any other way. In your StarTech example, it will open the files from the USB attached to the REX, allocate memory for data from your PC memory, read data from USB to the allocated PC memory, process it (depending on the playback application) and finally send it to your DAC through the StarTech again from the PC memory. In a case of a microrendu your PC acts only as a "controller" telling the rendu what to process. After that the rendu will open the file (most of the times from a LAN share / NAS using the network), read it into the rendu's internal memory, process it, and finally send it to the DAC which is directly attached to it. This way any EMI/RFI in your PC shall not affect the processing of data. The difference between options such as DLNA/Roon/HQP and others is about how data reaching the microrendu box.
> 
> ...


 

 Doesn't the mR require a USB device to get to a pure DAC.  In other words there is one more step in that chain.  So you are still left with USB in between - and how does THAT part of the chain gets processed and transferred?
  
 http://www.sonore.us/microRendu.html


> *HARDWARE FEATURES*
> External power input jack
> RJ45 input connector
> USB audio output connector


 
 So you have vastly oversimplified the mR chain.
  
 I want to state as clear as possible - I have no agenda to promote anything - nor am I recommending anyone buy or borrow anything.  I am simply conveying my subject listening results.  I do have a lot of experience in the past few years with DDC's and not much else changing in my system.
  
 Now on to 'cause of action' theories and speculations - as to why I (and so far a few others) have experienced SQ improvements with the Startech.  First the use of the Startech for music file playback is a secondary use - the primary is galvanic isolation of the USB chain between PC and DDC/DAC.  I don't think there is much debate on this 'cause of action'.  Possibly a secondary benefit of the USB>IP then IP>USB packet translation is improved signal integrity.  Some speculation here.
  
 Now on to it's secondary use as a external storage device.  I can easily hear differences in the high capacity PNY USB sticks and the SLC microSD card (by way of a USB 3.0 adapter).  Note the PNY USB sticks were much superior to a non-SLC microSD card.  OK something is going on here.
  
 So here is my supposition:
  
 The data in all solid state devices are stored in phyiscal memory called NAND flash memory.  So let's look at how NAND flash memory stores our music files in a solid state way.  That is permanent with out power.


> NAND flash NAND flash also uses floating-gate transistors


 


> NAND flash uses tunnel injection for writing and tunnel release for erasing. NAND flash memory forms the core of the removable USB storage devices known as USB flash drives, as well as most memory card formats and solid-state drives available today.


 


> *Tunnel injection* is a field electron emission effect; specifically a quantum process called Fowler–Nordheim tunneling, whereby charge carriersare injected to an electric conductor through a thin layer of an electric insulator.
> 
> It is used to program NAND flash memory. The process used for erasing is called *tunnel release*.


 
   
 http://www.explainthatstuff.com/flashmemory.html
 Quote:


> How flash memory works—the simple explanation Flash works using an entirely different kind of transistor that stays switched on (or switched off) even when the power is turned off. A normal transistor has three connections (wires that control it) called the* source*, *drain*, and *gate*. _*Think of a transistor as a pipe through which electricity can flow as though it's water. One end of the pipe (where the water flows in) is called the source—think of that as a tap or faucet. The other end of the pipe is called the drain—where the water drains out and flows away. In between the source and drain, blocking the pipe, there's a gate.*_ When the gate is closed, the pipe is shut off, no electricity can flow and the transistor is off. In this state, the transistor stores a zero. When the gate is opened, electricity flows, the transistor is on, and it stores a one. But when the power is turned off, the transistor switches off too. When you switch the power back on, the transistor is still off, and since you can't know whether it was on or off before the power was removed, you can see why we say it "forgets" any information it stores.
> A flash transistor is different because it has a second gate above the first one. *When the gate opens, some electricity leaks up the first gate and stays there, in between the first gate and the second one, recording a number one. Even if the power is turned off, the electricity is still there between the two gates*. That's how the transistor stores its information whether the power is on or off. The information can be erased by making the "trapped electricity" drain back down again.


 


> How flash memory works—a more complex explanation In this state, the transistor is switched off—and effectively storing a zero. How do we switch it on? Both the source and the drain regions are rich in electrons (because they're made of n-type silicon), but electrons cannot flow from source to drain because of the electron deficient, p-type material between them. But if we apply a positive voltage to the transistor's two contacts, called the *bitline* and the *wordline*, electrons get pulled in a rush from source to drain. A few also manage to wriggle through the oxide layer by a process called tunneling and get stuck on the floating gate:


 



> The presence of electrons on the floating gate is how a flash transistor stores a one. The electrons will stay there indefinitely, even when the positive voltages are removed and whether there is power supplied to the circuit or not. The electrons can be flushed out by putting a negative voltage on the wordline—which repels the electrons back the way they came, clearing the floating gate and making the transistor store a zero again.


 

  
  
 OK now errors, possibly from PS noise or RFI/EMI noise can effect both the storage and the retrieval of this stored information.
  
 Think of what physicists call 'Phase transitions'  for example ice.  At a certain temperature ice transitions from a solid state to a liquid state.  It doesn't happen gradually as the temperature rises from say 0 degrees F to 32 degrees.  No -  STAYS solid right up until the 'Phase transition'.  Now during this Phase transition - the ice crystal is unstable - heat it fast enough and it will explode! 
  
 Once the ice is stably melted into water, it's in a liquid state and can move and used to do all kinds of things - like bathing, or cutting steel, etc.  Water can be directed in this movement by pipes and pumps.
  
 OK now we have a solid state gate holding our music data - it must also be transitioned into a new state - a flow of electrons.  It's during this critical process of being 'read' that errors can occur.  In a cleaner, lower noise environment this is better performed.  The power needed to perform this 'read' process is cleaner as well. 
  
 Another possible cause of action is the slower transfer speed of high speed USB vs SATA.  Allowing for a smoother loading and unloading into RAM for processing.


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Most of the differences between SSD vs. HD (or between an awful lot of any of the other stuff in computer audio playback) can be seen and explained by looking closely at the bursty patterns of current draw and the ground-plane noise modulation that comes from the device and goes into the power supplies of the rest of the system.  That's why such gains are made with separate supplies.
> 
> With regards to the route that data from a USB stick in the spare Starch/ICRON port takes:
> Remember, even though that end of the extender is--with its other USB port--feeding the DAC, the data gets read from the stick, sent back over the Ethernet lines (direct or through a switch), to the local (LEX) end of the extender, then into the computer's USB port, through the OS, into RAM, then played by the player s/w, back though the audio drivers, back out the USB port, back into the Startech, back over Ethernet, through the switch, to the REX end Starch/ICRON box, and finally out its USB port to the DAC.  Whew...  The Starch/ICRON is not doing any rendering or shortening of the path.
> ...


 
 I think moving the storage reading out of the PC as well as running the OS off a SSD has improved the SQ.

 Interesting the SQ difference between a microSD SLC and high capacity USB stick in the REX.
  
 I remember you recommending at one time an external LPS powered PCIe (or was it a Thunderbolt) SSD for music  storage I think?


----------



## Mr Underhill

superdad said:


> What Juergen of MBL is speaking of at minute 13--the "back doors of influence"--are AC "leakage loops," a term coined (I think) by my partner John Swenson, and are indeed a huge factor in every audio system, especially those with computers.  (I may get in trouble for saying so here, but on November 18th, 2016 Mr. Reis wrote to me and purchased one of our UltraCap LPS-1 units precisely because they block the path of leakage loops.)


 
*Morning Alex,*
  
 I would say - partially, probably. Juergen mentions impedance, and that he can hear changes in different system configurations. I suspect he would mention a number of different theories that may explain the observed facts.
  
 In my case when I have gradually repeated Rob's hard work I will probably buy a couple of battery packs and listen to the changes they bring, before buying an LPS1 and doing more work on leakage loops.
  
 One of the largest changes I heard in my system was adding an isolating transformer between my Bel Canto 3.5vbs DAC and my EAR/Yoshino pre-map, why was it effective? Good question, possible theories include: DC offset blocking; Ground loop; Leakage loop; Poorly designed balanced outputs/inputs (my tongue is in my cheek when mentioning this but it was suggested by Roger, one of my audio engineering friends).
  
 It is amazing to me how sensitive our systems are. Roger runs recording systems around the globe and he also heard the changes in my system but, as he would point out, the recordings are done using balanced audio circuits, CAT5 cables onto commercial SANs.
  
 I would love to think that we could simply measure differences, but I am not convinced we know yet what we are trying to measure, and that these differences may be lost in the noise floor ....and yet audible.
  
 I am grateful to Rob for sticking his head over the parapet.
  
 Great hobby.
  
*M*


----------



## Mr Underhill

To correct some mis-information I posted above:
  
 There were no Teradak x1/x2 on ebay, although a selection of new Teradak PSUs. I wrongly assumed that the unit was no longer available. I went onto the Teradak site and have since been in correspondence with Michael Li - new x1/x2 unit ordered.
  
*M*


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> To correct some mis-information I posted above:
> 
> There were no Teradak x1/x2 on ebay, although a selection of new Teradak PSUs. I wrongly assumed that the unit was no longer available. I went onto the Teradak site and have since been in correspondence with Michael Li - new x1/x2 unit ordered.
> 
> *M*


 

 Great link and previous comments - good to hear the vertiable X!/X2 is still available.
  
 I see they changed the caps from the gray colored panasonic FM's to these black caps with gold markings.  anybody know which these are?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TeraDak-TeraLink-X1-X2-DC8-5V-1A-USB-DC5V-port-Linear-Power-Supply-/222387365233?hash=item33c751e571:g3cAAOSw-FZXkEMi
  

  
 
 
Here is the previous version with Panasonic FC 25v 1500uf caps (rated Impedance: 30mOhm, Ripple: 1.55A@120Hz, they do not show an ESR rating for these)

  
  
 I replaced them with Nichicon HW's (With Nichicon HW  25V 1500uf - 10,000hr (105C), low impedance: 16mOhm, Ripple 1.56A@120Hz.)

  

 As you can see the HW's have almost half the impedance of the previous stock FC's.  Other good choices could be the Pannie FM's with 15mOhm, and the Rubycon ZLG with 12mOhm.
  
 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-electronic-components/EEU-FM1E152/P12380-ND/613741
  
 Changing out these 8 caps should only be done by a Professional or very knowledgable DIYer.  The caps themselves are relatively cheap at around $1 each.


----------



## Narayan23

rb2013 said:


> I think moving the storage reading out of the PC as well as running the OS off a SSD has improved the SQ.
> 
> Interesting the SQ difference between a microSD SLC and high capacity USB stick in the REX.
> 
> I remember you recommending at one time an external LPS powered PCIe (or was it a Thunderbolt) SSD for music  storage I think?


 
 Rob your comment had me thinking about one of these docking stations :
  
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Satechi-Aluminum-USB-3-0-SATA-III-HDD-SSD-Docking-Station-with-2-Port-SD-10Q-/321953951935/?_ul=HN
  
 I posted the above because of versatility (HDD/SSD, USB 3.0, SD/SDHC/SDXC reader) those wanting to go all SSD could find a similar device and put in up tp 4 SSD´s, the question is would it be viable in the Super USB Chain ecosystem?


----------



## rb2013

narayan23 said:


> Rob your comment had me thinking about one of these docking stations :
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Satechi-Aluminum-USB-3-0-SATA-III-HDD-SSD-Docking-Station-with-2-Port-SD-10Q-/321953951935/?_ul=HN
> 
> I posted the above because of versatility (HDD/SSD, USB 3.0, SD/SDHC/SDXC reader) those wanting to go all SSD could find a similar device and put in up tp 4 SSD´s, the question is would it be viable in the Super USB Chain ecosystem?


 

 Yes if powered by a decent linear power supply (not a SMPS wall wart).  But then you don't have the galvanically isolated ground from the PC USB - that the Startech provides.  That may make a significant difference.


----------



## rb2013

mozes said:


> Hi, what a great thread you are leading here, a lot of great information and can be overwhelming for someone not too technical like me. I like your idea of an external PCI enclosure with an SSD drive to play music. I have a laptop that I use for music and I would like to test this concept of yours. Kindly, can you share some links to parts needed to build this solution with a Win 10 laptop? Thanks


 

 Does your laptop have a PCIe ext input?  Order ext SATA?  Thunderbolt (I think only on MAC's)?


----------



## rb2013

Listening again last night with the Panasonic 4GB SLC in one of the empty REX USB slots  - Wow!  It really is better.  Really impressed by this.  Still another 50 hrs to go on the burnin.


----------



## Spark85

Speaking about ground, if we connect the Startech with an FTP cable and USB with shielding, we can electrically connect the ground of the PC, with the REX and therefore to the entrance of the SU-1. Very few ohms
 Interestingly, that continuity measured with a polymeter, no longer occurs in the outputs of SU-1. For example, between the SU-1 chassis and the ground of the coaxial or AES / EBU output there is no continuity. That is true of the outputs of the NAD M51, for example, can measure continuity, Including analogue ones.

 The ground of signal between the SU-1 and the DAC can also measure continuity.
 It is as if the audio outputs of the SU-1, will take as ground reference, that of the DAC to which it is connected.

 Is this a reason why Singxers sound so good?

 Rob2013, ¿Have you tried the same continuity ground between your USB input and your coaxial output en the F1?
 ¿Do you have in your system, some cable you are using, Ethernet or USB that has that feature?

 I have some USB cable with float ground to do some testing if in my case this can influence the sound.
  
 The other day I heard it wonderful, of course, as never before. Startech's advantage must be good data transmission. No matter what noise the ground may have.


----------



## rb2013

spark85 said:


> Speaking about ground, if we connect the Startech with an FTP cable and USB with shielding, we can electrically connect the ground of the PC, with the REX and therefore to the entrance of the SU-1. Very few ohms
> Interestingly, that continuity measured with a polymeter, no longer occurs in the outputs of SU-1. For example, between the SU-1 chassis and the ground of the coaxial or AES / EBU output there is no continuity. That is true of the outputs of the NAD M51, for example, can measure continuity, Including analogue ones.
> 
> The ground of signal between the SU-1 and the DAC can also measure continuity.
> ...


 

 Do not use a shielded Ethernet CAT6 cable - use UTP only.  STP (shielded cable) will not provide galvanic isolation.
  
 Yes all DDC's will provide galvanic isolation from the SPDIF connection - some with electro-magnetic transformers like the Pulse and Murata - some with a FPGA or CPLD like the Tanly, Hyda Z and Singxer F-1 and SU-1.
  
 So do not confuse USB and SPDIF GI - they are different.  SPDIF is easy USB is not.   Just cutting/blocking the ground power pin will not do it.  The ground is maintained through the USB shield.


----------



## Spark85

Ok, important fact. I'll replace the ethernet cable.


----------



## mozes

rb2013 said:


> Does your laptop have a PCIe ext input?  Order ext SATA?  Thunderbolt (I think only on MAC's)?


 
No it only has USB 2 and 3 ports


----------



## rb2013

mozes said:


> No it only has USB 2 and 3 ports


 

 So you would need to use the Startech/ICRON GB LAN Ethernet USB extender


----------



## Paulkouhan

I received today 2 packages : (the smalest on the bottom is the one for head fi)
  

  
 Following the discutions about the USB flash drives on the Startech, I wanted to try one of my USB flash drives with separated power supply instead of my NAS server / Wifi.
  
 I removed the 5V pin, soldered one jack connector and here it is :
  

  
 Plugged it on my NUC,powered it with my 0.8uV ripple 5V power supply and ...
  
 Wow, what a big improvement !!
  
  
 Sure the power supply of all our stuff is the first thing to improve...
 I am tempted to try a SSD drive powered the same way .
  
 Rob, I would be very interested to know the impact of the startech (as the impact of its price is certain...). Is it possible for you to make the same USB cable so you could make a listening session without the Startech, but with a clean power suply for your USB stick ?!


----------



## mozes

rb2013 said:


> So you would need to use the Startech/ICRON GB LAN Ethernet USB extender


Thanks for your help, I will check it out


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> I received today 2 packages : (the smalest on the bottom is the one for head fi)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have a pre-made cable on the way - I plan on using it with the SSD running the OS.  But I'll repeat - for like the third time - this will not give the powered device GI from the PC's VBUS.  Only the Startech can do that.  And it's LPS powered.  So this exercise seems pointless to me


----------



## Paulkouhan

did anyone try one of these galvanic usb islators ?
  
 http://intona.eu/en/products
 http://www.cesys.com/products/usb-isolator/
 https://www.olimex.com/Products/USB-Modules/USB-ISO/
 https://electronics-shop.dk/isoleret_usb.htm?currency=EUR


----------



## Mr Underhill

*Paul,*
  
 Various isolators covered in these threads:
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/overall-isolation-network-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-and-power-29916/
  
 and
  
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/auralic-aries-and-sonore-microrendu-listening-impressions-29351/
  
 You can add the Etalon to your list.
  
 I have used the FMC bridge and the EMO-70-HD in my system. Definitely had a positive effect for me.
  
 These threads discuss Leakage Loops in more detail as mentioned by Alex above, and discussed by John Swenson.
  
*M*


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> *Paul,*
> 
> Various isolators covered in these threads:
> 
> ...


 

 My Sata from USB cable arrived I'll power up the SSD running my OS with a LPS tomorrow.  I'll load up some track on to the SSD and compare to the REX USB and SLC mSD card.
  
 All this discussion on leakage currents  - maybe I should start saving my pennies for a LPS-1


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> did anyone try one of these galvanic usb islators ?
> 
> http://intona.eu/en/products
> http://www.cesys.com/products/usb-isolator/
> ...


 

 I had the Intona as a loaner from a friend - some folks have had good experience with it.  Not my cup of tea - I covered it's drawback a few dozen pages ago here and in depth on my XU208 thread.  For a bit more money it seems the Startech is  better bet.
  
 Here's another:
  
 http://hifimediy.com/high-speed-usb-isolator-480Mbps


----------



## Albrecht

Hi RB
  
 My LPS-1 stung me hard.....
  
 But it definitely blew away my Teradak 9v 2a that i was using with the microRendu. Now I have a bit of overkill using the TeraDak as a feeder supply.
  


> maybe I should start saving my pennies for a LPS-1


----------



## rb2013

albrecht said:


> Hi RB
> 
> My LPS-1 stung me hard.....
> 
> But it definitely blew away my Teradak 9v 2a that i was using with the microRendu. Now I have a bit of overkill using the TeraDak as a feeder supply.


 

 Yes the reports are coming with rave reviews.  Good to ditch the included SMPS (and save $20) and use a low cost LPS as feeder.  Keeps the AC mains cleaner


----------



## music_man

placebo. like much of audio. high end straight usb chain is fine. must have clean data and especially +5V. i tried the startech rex/lex and it did not even function. requires drivers,setup=bad. dac60? it is not even balanced afaik. going balanced would do you  al ot better right there. plus that is not exactly a $100,000 dac which should make more of an improvement. not trying to be harsh. if you hear a difference i am happy for you. usb over ethernet is great for length. however you are converting streaming to packet data and back again. do not see how that is better. again, if it sounds better to you terrific! i could not even get it to work with some very high end dacs but did sort of work with the msb select. that alone is going to be  aheck of  lot bigger upgrade over dac60 even modded. seriously not trying to be  ajerk just relating my experience with this. a high end usb chain(not ehternet) to a high end balanced dac to a high end balanced amp is all i need. heck, there are $65,000 of cables involved. i am talking about real upgrades. at the best rex/lex should make no difference. at worst they do not function. ps audio has now jumped on this. i do agree that using usb thumb drives is superior. actually, i am guessing that is where your entire improvement is coming from. as you noted. that can be done via usb without introducing ehternet. ethernet is really great for range. it is a superior format if your dac accepts ethernet natively. not switching back and forth. regardless of if you are hearing the thumb drives or other stuff in that signal chain i am glad you are so pleased with it. if it makes a difference to you that is all that matters.


----------



## rb2013

music_man said:


> placebo. like much of audio. high end straight usb chain is fine. must have clean data and especially +5V. i tried the startech rex/lex and it did not even function. requires drivers,setup=bad. dac60? it is not even balanced afaik. going balanced would do you  al ot better right there. plus that is not exactly a $100,000 dac which should make more of an improvement. not trying to be harsh. if you hear a difference i am happy for you. usb over ethernet is great for length. however you are converting streaming to packet data and back again. do not see how that is better. again, if it sounds better to you terrific! i could not even get it to work with some very high end dacs but did sort of work with the msb select. that alone is going to be  aheck of  lot bigger upgrade over dac60 even modded. seriously not trying to be  ajerk just relating my experience with this. a high end usb chain(not ehternet) to a high end balanced dac to a high end balanced amp is all i need. heck, there are $65,000 of cables involved. i am talking about real upgrades. at the best rex/lex should make no difference. at worst they do not function. ps audio has now jumped on this. i do agree that using usb thumb drives is superior. actually, i am guessing that is where your entire improvement is coming from. as you noted. that can be done via usb without introducing ehternet. ethernet is really great for range. it is a superior format if your dac accepts ethernet natively. not switching back and forth. regardless of if you are hearing the thumb drives or other stuff in that signal chain i am glad you are so pleased with it. if it makes a difference to you that is all that matters.


Forget the ' meds ' this morning?


----------



## music_man

no, i just think it is odd you spent more on your signal chain than on your dac. plus having a balanced system would be a much bigger improvement. i do understand though, you want it to sound like vinyl. you have a tube dac. we are just from two different camps. to me digital is digital and analog is analog. i do not attempt to make one sound like the other. perhaps that does make it sound more like vinyl. i will take your word on that. i am going for a completely different sound. however, i still find that much stuff in the signal chain odd. unles it achieves the vinyl type sound you wish. i suppose that was by trial and error. not methodical. usually the less stuff you put in a signal chain will sound "better". if it gives you a certain sound you are after i can understand your reasoning. just not my cup of tea thats all. i could not get the rex/lex to work with some dacs and others i did not feel anything was really different. providing clean usb data and vbus is a must. i agree with that. seeing as ps audio introduced a ethernet/usb device i suppose others feel there is some merit to it. to me it seems like mixing platforms that are not meant to be mixed. it will provide a longer cable run. i feel a top notch usb setup is on par at least with usb/ethernet. it may not provide the sound you are after. i see where you are coming from. i am just from a different camp. nothing wrong with what you did. i certainly would not fault it if it provides the results you wish for. i know i was a bit of a jerk about it, i apologize for that. i just view the signal chain much differently. heck, i would not even have tubes. so we are just trying to obtain different goals i suppose. it is all good.


----------



## music_man

i maintain usb over lan is not a great idea. can actually harm sq. perhaps that is the vinyl sound you are getting. i googled many people saying from no difference to problems. to be fair some did think it sounded much better. no doubt it changes the sound but not a change i personally welcome. however the thumb drives are an outstanding idea and do most certainly sound better than playing from discs within the pc. be they ssd or platter. i am not disagreeing with you. just saying it is not a sound i prefer. there is no right or wrong with audio. only what you like. i am glad you achieved what you wished. i prefer i very high quality usb chain sans ethernet. as these systems were originally designed for. that is not to say that ethernet wil not work with many systems. just not a sound i prefer. the usb drives, yes.


----------



## Mr Underhill

*Hi Music_man,*
  
 I am not sure what you are hoping to achieve? You start by stating that this is all a 'placebo' and then adopt a more reasonable tone in your last post stating that, 'some did think it sounded much better'.
  
 Can you post:
  
 1. Which StarTech you used;
 2. Within what system;
 3. Did you try LPSUs with it?
 4. Did you use USB sticks?
 5 Which USB sticks?
  
  
 DACs
 There are many people on fora who take a view that all DACs over a minimal cost are the same and that bits are bits. While that is not my experience I have found that the differences, above a certain price point, are not huge .....but then I have never owned a stratospherically expensive DACs. In more recent years I have owned the Naim DAC (plus XPS PSU) and now the Bel Canto DAC 3.5vb (plus VBS). This move was triggered by wanting different facilities in the DAC.
  
 Valves
 I use valve amps. I am not aiming for any type of sound. The thing that was a revelation for me about twenty years ago was Class A, through a solid state behemoth. Tim de Paravicini, who designed and built my amps and is widely lauded as an expert, would tell you that he can build in solid state or valve and that he aims for the same output.
  
 Balanced Sound
 My DAC and amps have balanced & SE connections. I find that they do sound different, but not night and day. I have used them both over the years to tune my system.
  
 Personally I don't find any of these things are a silver bullet.
  
 What I enjoy about these experiments is that they are not massively expensive, and if after listening you decide to move in a different direction you can sell up and move on for a small loss.
  
 I did not know whether any of the things Rob was suggesting would stay in my system. For instance, I bought a Mutec3+USB. Initially it made a very positive impression but, over a few months, I decided it was not for me. However, the F1 is a keeper, as is the iPurifier2.
  
 Currently for me the StarTech is under advisement. I think there may be a small benefit using the supplied SMPS. I will be getting my first LPSU today.
  
 I would like to hear in more detail what you did and how you tested it ....and hopefully in a reasonable and non-agressive way.
  
*M*


----------



## music_man

pcaq dragontail>aq jb with vbus cut>1.5m aq diamond usb>startech USB2004EXT2 transmitter with regulated lps>5m aq diamond cat7 cable>other side of startech>1.5m aq diamond usb cable>ipurifier>aq dragontail>dac>balanced odin 2>ayre qx-5 twenty.>odin 2 speaker cables> sonus faber extrema 2>rel stadium with rel blue cable. anaconda power cables.. pc and stereo powered by separate online ups's(full time battery power). in fact lps is redundant then but i like it. 
  
 I found some dacs failed to operate or recognize the signal. others worked but I liked the same usb chain without the ethernet better. some agreed, some did not. the startech is not cheap at $400. Luckily i can return all of this no hassle as i am a good customer. used usb sticks with both setups. i do find that makes a nice difference to internal drives as i said. i found that balanced is a must with most very high end dacs. in fact, to me night and day.i know of Tim de Paravicini and fully agree. i just do not prefer tubes. as with the usb i just prefer plug and play. i am using sandisk ultra usb sticks. i am one who just prefers the straight usb signal chain. i chalk this up to a lot of conversion between two very different formats going on. it does have a "sound". i just did not prefer it. that is just personal, as are all aspects of audio. ymmv.  currently i use a startech hub to provide the vbus with a regulated lps and 3 256mb usb sticks. it is just a sonic preference and everyone has theirs. except due to streaming being converted to packets and back some dacs will not handshake let alone sync. so that is the only caveat. i am sorry at first i was being a jerk. it was because it did not work with the codex and i was unhappy because that is where i would have used it. it turned out i did not care for the sound anyways. the qx-5 twenty has ethernet built in so no need for the startech. as does the msb select which interestingly it did work with. to be honest the codex is a bit picky about signal. i will probably get the ifi iusb3.0 tomorrow when i return this stuff. that is much more advanced than jb or ipurifier. i will see how it sounds to me.  i wil not use ifi's lps because it has a habit of dying. i have the wyred4sound lps which is obviously much better. so, where it worked usb over ethernet was just not my sonic cup of tea. to be fair audio is highly subjective and not everything appeals to everyone. if it appeals to you that is fine. in my original post in this thread i was just venting anger but i apologize for that as i should not have done so. or at least have gotten to the point instead of insult this. there is no reason to insult it. many people may like it and some don't. including myself. that is all. i do apologize for being a jerk about it though.


----------



## colour97

i followed rb2013's thread to purchase my startech, for me this is really a risk to spend over 500 usd ,
  
 in hong kong or china , this startech is not available for sale, the only way i could buy is from ebay , amazon or newegg.
 for me, i don't even have a real right to return the goods.
  
 before i bought this startech, i had to reconfirm the right product at this thread. 
  
 the fact is USB2004EXT2 is not a right one .
  
 you need to purchase *usb2g4lext2​*  
*if you can return it, try ​**usb2g4lext2 to see the result. ​*


----------



## Mr Underhill

music_man said:


> pcaq dragontail>aq jb with vbus cut>1.5m aq diamond usb>startech USB2004EXT2 transmitter with regulated lps>5m aq diamond cat7 cable>other side of startech>1.5m aq diamond usb cable>ipurifier>aq dragontail>dac>balanced odin 2>ayre qx-5 twenty.>odin 2 speaker cables> sonus faber extrema 2>rel stadium with rel blue cable. anaconda power cables.. pc and stereo powered by separate online ups's(full time battery power). in fact lps is redundant then but i like it.
> 
> I found some dacs failed to operate or recognize the signal. others worked but I liked the same usb chain without the ethernet better. some agreed, some did not. the startech is not cheap at $400. Luckily i can return all of this no hassle as i am a good customer. used usb sticks with both setups. i do find that makes a nice difference to internal drives as i said. i found that balanced is a must with most very high end dacs. in fact, to me night and day.i know of Tim de Paravicini and fully agree. i just do not prefer tubes. as with the usb i just prefer plug and play. i am using sandisk ultra usb sticks. i am one who just prefers the straight usb signal chain. i chalk this up to a lot of conversion between two very different formats going on. it does have a "sound". i just did not prefer it. that is just personal, as are all aspects of audio. ymmv.  currently i use a startech hub to provide the vbus with a regulated lps and 3 256mb usb sticks. it is just a sonic preference and everyone has theirs. except due to streaming being converted to packets and back some dacs will not handshake let alone sync. so that is the only caveat. i am sorry at first i was being a jerk. it was because it did not work with the codex and i was unhappy because that is where i would have used it. it turned out i did not care for the sound anyways. the qx-5 twenty has ethernet built in so no need for the startech. as does the msb select which interestingly it did work with. to be honest the codex is a bit picky about signal. i will probably get the ifi iusb3.0 tomorrow when i return this stuff. that is much more advanced than jb or ipurifier. i will see how it sounds to me.  i wil not use ifi's lps because it has a habit of dying. i have the wyred4sound lps which is obviously much better. so, where it worked usb over ethernet was just not my sonic cup of tea. to be fair audio is highly subjective and not everything appeals to everyone. if it appeals to you that is fine. in my original post in this thread i was just venting anger but i apologize for that as i should not have done so. or at least have gotten to the point instead of insult this. there is no reason to insult it. many people may like it and some don't. including myself. that is all. i do apologize for being a jerk about it though.


 
  
  
*Hi Musicman,*
  
 Some nice HiFi. I have been tempted by Ayre & Sonas Fabus gear in the past, never heard Ayre. Healthy investment in cables.
  
 The StarTech that Rob is pointing people to is the Gigabit version, USB2G4LEXT2 - can you borrow one of these?
  
 Can I clarify - are you using the StarTech in a similar fashion to the LANrover? Where do your files reside?
  
  
_*WRT your comments:*_
  
_I liked the same usb chain without the ethernet better._
 In my system I do this twice, and definitely prefer it IN. The second time is with this:
  
 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004XYEXX4/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 For a mammoth £12.50. I use this between my microRendu (mR) and F1:
  
 Home Network > Switch (LPSU) > Cat7 > EMO-70-HD > AQ Cinnamon > mR > USBtoRJ45 > Cat7 > RJ45toUSB > AQ JB > IFI iP2 > F1
  
 Tried taking it out everything between the mR and F1, then put things back in different configs, the full thing is better ....in my system.
  
_Used usb sticks with both setups. i do find that makes a nice difference to internal drives._
 I first came across this when I bought my Naim DAC, many people said the best way to feed music into the DAC was via USB. In those days they were all small and inconvenient, and I hadn't cottoned onto how sensitive these electronic audio chains are; wish I'd played a LOT more.
  
_I found that balanced is a must with most very high end dacs._
 Most of the DACs I have used do not offer balanced, e.g. Chord and Naim. The Bel Canto does, but it sounds good through SE or Balanced/AES. I generally pick which way to go based on my ears. As you say YMMV.
  
_I am using sandisk ultra usb sticks._
 Thanks, these are amongst the ones I am looking at. I am thinking of swallowing some moolah and just buying two 512GB USBs.
  
_It does have a "sound". i just did not prefer it._
 I am certainly not persuaded by the 'it has to sound like a live performance' POV. If it ain't for you then you are obviously right to send it back. BUT, it would be good if you can get to listen to the right StarTech before you park it.
  
_It did not work with the codex and i was unhappy because that is where i would have used it_
 I hear you ....BLOODY COMPUTERS.
  
_The qx-5 twenty has ethernet built in so no need for the startech._
 I have attacked Naim for building in their network interface to 'other' elements of their digital chain. Only through doing some of this experimenting did it occur to me that this might be a very deliberate sound quality decision, rather than sales.
  
 Be interesting to see if you still feel this way about the StarTech if you get Rob's choice ...and use it as an additional file store, which is what I am doing via my NAS.
  
_I have the wyred4sound lps which is obviously much better._
 Please say more. Which PSUs have you used/tried. How many modules do you have plugged in .....etc.
  
 Look forward to hearing more.
  
 ATB,
  
*M*


----------



## rb2013

music_man said:


> no, i just think it is odd you spent more on your signal chain than on your dac. plus having a balanced system would be a much bigger improvement. i do understand though, you want it to sound like vinyl. you have a tube dac. we are just from two different camps. to me digital is digital and analog is analog. i do not attempt to make one sound like the other. perhaps that does make it sound more like vinyl. i will take your word on that. i am going for a completely different sound. however, i still find that much stuff in the signal chain odd. unles it achieves the vinyl type sound you wish. i suppose that was by trial and error. not methodical. usually the less stuff you put in a signal chain will sound "better". if it gives you a certain sound you are after i can understand your reasoning. just not my cup of tea thats all. i could not get the rex/lex to work with some dacs and others i did not feel anything was really different. providing clean usb data and vbus is a must. i agree with that. seeing as ps audio introduced a ethernet/usb device i suppose others feel there is some merit to it. to me it seems like mixing platforms that are not meant to be mixed. it will provide a longer cable run. i feel a top notch usb setup is on par at least with usb/ethernet. it may not provide the sound you are after. i see where you are coming from. i am just from a different camp. nothing wrong with what you did. i certainly would not fault it if it provides the results you wish for. i know i was a bit of a jerk about it, i apologize for that. i just view the signal chain much differently. heck, i would not even have tubes. so we are just trying to obtain different goals i suppose. it is all good.


 

 Well first I doubt you ever had the Startech - as you mention the 'drivers' don't work - there are no drivers.

 Second you come crashing into this thread with disjointed rantings - about the Startech and the DAC60, much of it not making any sense.  Never seen you post much here or in any of my other threads on DDC's.  Your tone is rude and aggressive.
  
 I've been through many battles with folks like you before - any one remember 'PROT'?  I don't want this thread shut down like has happened to the Gustard U12 thread (thanks Beemer), or the XU208 thread (Thanks Blizzard aka Mike aka Minerva Audio)!  After this post I'm just going to ignore your disjointed - wall of solid text - barely legible rants.
  
 Just to say - have you read my threads?  Obviously not.  Not only have I owned over a dozen high end DAC's - I had a renowned APL NWO 3.0GO - which I traded for a smaller version:
 That DAC was over $30,000.  And was Srajan Eben of 6Moons fame, main reference DAC for many years.  Sorry bud - but I've been there and done that.  The cost of gear is not an arbiter of SQ.  I would take my heavily modded DAC60 over the APL I have now and had then any day.
  
 As far as analog experience - well here is pic of my old $30,000 Rig. 

  
  
 And what I'm hearing now blows that away.
 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/aplhifi/nwo30go.html
  
 My suggestion - if my and other's posts on the sound quality superiority of this hybrid USB/Ethernet chain - bothers you - GO START YOUR OWN THREAD!  DON"T TROLL THIS ONE.
  
 I have flagged all your posts as abusive.


----------



## rb2013

mr underhill said:


> *Hi Music_man,*
> 
> I am not sure what you are hoping to achieve? You start by stating that this is all a 'placebo' and then adopt a more reasonable tone in your last post stating that, 'some did think it sounded much better'.
> 
> ...


 

 Ignore this ranting lunatic and he will go away.


----------



## Spark85

The improvement I have heard in my particular system is not attributable to suggestion or placebo. It is important enough to think so.

 It is possible that not all systems, that advantage is similar or maybe there are people are not worth the money, but in my case I am very satisfied.

 I have not made a change in my system as important as this one.


----------



## rb2013

spark85 said:


> The improvement I have heard in my particular system is not attributable to suggestion or placebo. It is important enough to think so.
> 
> It is possible that not all systems, that advantage is similar or maybe there are people are not worth the money, but in my case I am very satisfied.
> 
> I have not made a change in my system as important as this one.


 

 Cheers!


----------



## music_man

geez man i apologized. don't take it personally. if you like the sound that is great. i had a hard time getting it working and felt there was little difference or degradation. i am entitled to my opinion. you did not invent this. even so not everyone has to agree with you and rub your back. i have a pretty good reputation here so i don't mind you flagged all my posts. you are entitled to your opinion and i am entitled to mine. if you want "your" thread to be one where everyone just agrees with you then just say so. aparently i got the wrong startech anyways. i personally do not see how a particular one is extra special. there are drivers. it is a network device and uses the windows tcp/ip protocol. take a breath. in the real world not everyone agrees with each other. i accept that and so should you. i meant no personal offense to you. it was just not my cup of tea. i do agree flash drives on usb are great. i did not mean to hurt your feelings, nor should they be. i just did not enjoy it as much as you do and said so. i don't see anything wrong with that. this is the first time in about 20 years here someone had a bone to pick with me over nothing. if i don't like it or had difficulty with it that is my issue. obviously you are very pleased with the results you obtained and that is great. that does not mean it works for everyone. others had constructive advice. you were offended because i crashed your party by saying i did not like it. this is the internet. relax. on that note i do not intend to obtain the magic startech since it is not available from my distributor. so perhaps therein lies all of my feelings on the subject. i had the wrong part i suppose. just take it easy i am sorry i spoiled your party. i never had such a long thread of what an ingenious thing i had discovered. in fact ps audio has jumped on the bandwagon. some like it some don't. such is life. roll with the punches. there is no reason to be personally offended. that is absurd. if someone disagrees with you you are going to fly off the rocker. reminds me of someone else that uses twitter a lot. i apologized for offending you, move on. i will not post in your thread again as i have no need for this setup. so please don't worry.


----------



## rb2013

Ok back to the matters at hand - or the the things that matter.
  
 Finally finished my LT3042/R-Core DIY LPS project last night and gave it a listen:

  
 This runs at 5VDC only - not adjustable.
  
 So I took out the TeraDak DC30W (modded HW caps)/DC iPur/Recovery and ran the DIYLT3042LPS straight into the iPur2>F-1.  This is easy with the 2G split cable.  Just needed a 2.1mmDC Female to USB A Female adapter which I have.  Plug in the power leg of the 2G.
  
 So how did it sound - without burn in time - excellent!  Very, very smooth and musical.  I did notice a lower level of dynamics, or vibrancy.  This uber vibrancy is one of the great traits of the
 'Ultra' USB chain.  So I tried adding the DC iPur - that sounded worse.  I will burn in this unit for 100 hrs and give it another listen.
  
 On returning the DC30W/DC iPur/Recovery -  and the vibrancy and jump returned - but with no noticeable loss in  warmth or musicality.  Tried the DC30W without the DC iPur and it was barely noticeable.  Just a hair better with it in.
  
 Now the second experiment last night was using this DIY LT3042 LPS to power the PC PNY CS2211 SSD running the OS.  This cable finally arrived SATA power to USB:


 $10 https://www.moddiy.com/products/USB-to-2.5-SSD-5%252dPin-SATA-Power-Adapter-Cable-%2820cm%29.html
  
 So now running the SSD with the OS from the LT3042 LPS - I noticed a bit better SQ.  Just a bit more air and depth to the sound stage.  Well worth the money.
 So I tried then using the second free DC power port on the TeraDak X1/X2 (moded with HW caps)I was using to feed the LEX.  The sound remained the same - with that slight improvement.  Note the DC power port is adjustable - so I set it to 5VDC which the SSD needs.

  
 So I don't think an extra LPS is needed for this duty - the X1 can fill both needs.
  
 Cheers


----------



## rb2013

music_man said:


> g aparently i got the wrong startech anyways.


 

 You go off ranting and didn't even have the right one.  'Enough said...


----------



## music_man

agreed. i would like to make an observation though. it seems you really like to tweak/diy. that is fine. i just purchase off the shelf components and use them a sintended. you and i are probably like oil and water. i have a completely methodology than you. there is nothing wrong with what you do if it suits you. we just have different approaches. there is no reason to have a hate fest over it. i have apologized to you like 10 times already. i honestly did not mean to upset you or belittle your work/findings. the particular subject at hand was just not for me. that's all. you do not need to be offended because someone did not agree with you. that is silly. you have many loyal followers. i honestly did not intend to upset yo but if i did first again my apologies and secondly do not take it personally. it is not  abig deal. perhaps it is to you but it really is not. just forget me or use the ignore feature if you wish. i really did not mean to poop on your parade. i am very sorry you feel that way and take a difference of opinion as a personal attack. i am done in this thread so continue on.


----------



## rb2013

For anyone who wants the details on my  LT3042 LPS - here are the components and details:
 This should only be attempted by professionals and experienced DIYer's - caution lethal voltages involved!
  
 LT3042 board assembled.  LT3042 5VDC 0.8uv noise before the NPN transistor.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/142115498378?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 $54 with shipping to US.

  
 Very nice totl copper shielded 9V R-Core transformer.  I had tried a 12V and it was to much voltage - and shut down after 20 minutes.  The original LT3042 ad stated 6-12V input  - but has since been revised to 6-9V input.  Ran all last night with the 9V perfectly. 
  
 I had communication with the LT 3042 Seller who was very helpful.  There are two windings so you could power two separate boards.
  

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/222210166843?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 $44
  


> This transformer using famous Japanese Nippon steel coiled silicon steel sheet and oxygen-free copper enamel wire,reliable performance，


 
  
 I used the case from another Breeze LPS that I didn't need.  You can buy a case or make one.  Or use something like this if you want a power switch and LED Voltage display (which matched my Klein MM almost perfectly).
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/HiFi-30VA-LPS-DC-9V-3A-Linear-Power-Supply-psu-option-12V-15V-18V-24V-for-AMP/262501308901?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D438ba411a5b8429c9ede18bb1748ea7f%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D11%26sd%3D161870356771


----------



## rb2013

music_man said:


> the particular subject at hand was just not for me.


 
 Still here?


----------



## Paulkouhan

Rob, I think It would be intresting to plug an SSD external drive on your startech to compare with your flash drive and SCL card.
 I have read somewhere that SSD are suposed to have better memory chips and better controllers.


----------



## Albrecht

> Yes the reports are coming with rave reviews.  Good to ditch the included SMPS (and save $20) and use a low cost LPS as feeder.  Keeps the AC mains cleaner


 
  
 Hey RB. Thanks... yeah, - Just using a ($130) TeraDak LPS with the microRendu produced pretty great sound for me. Adding in the LPS-1 brought more detail & more bass, - but at the cost of midrange cohesiveness. Adding in the Sonore/Cardas USB cable to the F-1 and then again the Sonore/Cardas 2.1 mm power cable really kept the detail & bass, but brought the midrange back into balance and now the mix is "right" and cohesive: and IMO, just A-Mazing.
  
   FWIW, - and in my experience, with my system, - the power cable from the LPS-1 was essential. I do not like using the stereotypical & cliche term of "highly resolving," low-level detail, system: but in my case, - the LPS-1 without the power cable was not worth it.
  
 I in no way regret the Teradak LPS as it was needed and in use a while before the LPS-1 was available, - it is a very good LPS, - and much better than using a noisy SMPS.
  
 So, SOME people may find that the "real" price of the LPS-1 might not be $410 (shipped), but more like $950 if you factor in the 2 Sonore/Cardas cables, & a reasonably priced LPS as feeder.
 (There are a bunch of very good to great $400 LPSs out in the world right now, so I suggest that folks think about, & factor in potential added-on costs).
  
 In my case, the "upgrade" from my Mac Mini that died was dramatic as far as SQ. But going microRendu/F-1/LPS-1 with TeraDak feeder was NOT cheaper than a MacMini, (including the required playback software, hardware mods/optimizations and souped up RAM, etc).
  
 I did not know about the StarTech/LanRover solution when my MacMini died, - or perhaps I would've chosen that path....
  
 As it stands, (once I recover financially), it is possible to use the StarTech solution with my current setup. I think that is just one of the benefits of it.
  
 Cheers,


----------



## rb2013

OK a  couple of key points:
  
 Very good audio reproduction is the re-creation of the actual live music.  As the late Harry Pearson called 'The Absolute Sound'.  In fact, this legendary man founded a journal by that same name - that was originally subscriber paid - with NO advertising.

  
 Harry's view was that great audio reproduction would move closer to this absolute re-creation - whether analog or digital.  In fact, as the issues with both were addressed they would converge on the absolute.   And that has been my experience.  There is only ONE absolute and that is the sound of live music.  In my 30+yrs experience this USB/Ethernet digital chain comes the closest by far to this absolute.  Analog or digital.
  
 Now to the Ultra USB/Ethernet chain -
  
 There is only one Startech, ICRON and LanRover that has the proper chip set to achieve what I'm writing about.  But ICRON has produced this in two schemes - one programmed in a FPGA Xilinx SPARTAN 6 and the other in a privately contracted ASIC chip.
  
 I have only heard the SPARTAN  version - the new ICRON Ranger and PS Audio LanRover are made with the ASIC design.  There are many posts of some issues with the ASIC model.
  
 Next - a UTP CAT6 or CAT6a cable only should be used between the two Startech devices (LEX and REX).  Why  - this cable is unshielded and maintains Ethernet's inherent galvanic isolation of the ground from the PC's VBUS.  The use of a CAT5 STP, or CAT6 STP, CAT7, or CAT8 cable is shielded - so unless the shield is disconnected at one end of the cable - will defeat the GI of this USB/Ethernet chain.  Now you can use another means of GI like FMC or GISO and use a shielded cable  - but that seems redundant and adds to the cost.  I tried a FMC connection in the middle of the Startech and it had no positive effect, and in fact needed to have it's own LPS's powering it to not be detrimental to the SQ.


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> Rob, I think It would be intresting to plug an SSD external drive on your startech to compare with your flash drive and SCL card.
> I have read somewhere that SSD are suposed to have better memory chips and better controllers.


 

 That is a good point and I have thought of that - at least until the SLC vs USB stick faceoff.
  
 I posted a few dozen pages ago very detailed information on SSD drives, and the memory and memory allocation algorithms (wear evening, etc..) on the newer versions.  Some do have pSLC (pseudo SLC) caches - like my two PNY's.  But pSLC is different then SLC - better then MLC or TLC.  http://www.tomsitpro.com/articles/flash-data-center-advantages,2-744-2.html
  
 Now the other issue is the need for a SATA to USB adapter - these have their own clocks and circuits.  So may be counter productive.  Certainly more expensive.

  
 What I will do tonight is run some of the same music files from the now ext LPS powered PNY CS2211 SSD vs the SLC mSD - to see if there is a SQ difference.  I'm hoping not!  That would be huge in terms of ease of use, cost and convenience.
  
 Info on the PNY CS2211 SSD:
 http://www.anandtech.com/show/10234/the-pny-cs1311-and-cs2211-ssd-review-mlc-vs-tlc-at-15nm


----------



## Paulkouhan

next step is to power your CPU and RAM with clean LPS ...


----------



## rb2013

albrecht said:


> Hey RB. Thanks... yeah, - Just using a ($130) TeraDak LPS with the microRendu produced pretty great sound for me. Adding in the LPS-1 brought more detail & more bass, - but at the cost of midrange cohesiveness. Adding in the Sonore/Cardas USB cable to the F-1 and then again the Sonore/Cardas 2.1 mm power cable really kept the detail & bass, but brought the midrange back into balance and now the mix is "right" and cohesive: and IMO, just A-Mazing.
> 
> FWIW, - and in my experience, with my system, - the power cable from the LPS-1 was essential. I do not like using the stereotypical & cliche term of "highly resolving," low-level detail, system: but in my case, - the LPS-1 without the power cable was not worth it.
> 
> ...


 

 Good info!  Yes cables DO matter (oh no here it comes from the objectivist bleachers...LOL!).  In my chain a significant step up from the AS Silver Statement, to the Audience AU24Se to the SR Element Copper/Galileo.  Wish it weren't so.  I try and buy this stuff used and that limits the upfront cost and the depreciation on the sell side.

 The SR Element Audiogon seller was a dealer and included the new UEF tuning modules - at a ridiculous price.  Not sure on the Sonore USB cable.  The $140 price for the DC cable is a bit rich.  I have had very good luck with this Teddy Pardo silver DC cable and it's only $26.
 https://www.teddypardo.com/cables/misc-cables.html
  
 On the LPS front I'm hoping that the LT3042 after a few hundred hours can replace the TeraDak and Recovery. 
  
 Well good news - I'm getting a LPS-1 as a loaner - so we will see...


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> next step is to power your CPU and RAM with clean LPS ...


 

 Yes in due time...right now with an excellent SeaSonic fanless high PSRR low noise unit - on it's own AC line noise isolation filter.  Next server will be an iCore7 NUC


----------



## Albrecht

> Well good news - I'm getting a LPS-1 as a loaner


 
 Awesome....
  
 You've done so much for me, (all of us), - that i wish that i could've sent you mine to try. As far as the LPS-1 power cable, - I found out about the Teddy Pardo cable too late, as well as this $23 one on Ebay. 
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/272136453268?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Again.. thanks for all you have done here with your research and experiences. You are responsible for helping me get a dramatic increase in SQ and hence listening pleasure from my system.
  
 Cheers,


----------



## rb2013

albrecht said:


> Awesome....
> 
> You've done so much for me, (all of us), - that i wish that i could've sent you mine to try. As far as the LPS-1 power cable, - I found out about the Teddy Pardo cable too late, as well as this $23 one on Ebay.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the kind words - and your contributions here.  That's a great link I will get one once they're back in stock.  I have to check with TP to see if they'll make a 2.1mm to 2.1mm version.  I'm sure they would.
  
 Yes the SQ benefits are worth the efforts - the payoff each and every evening.


----------



## ericp2

rb2013 said:


> OK a  couple of key points:
> 
> Very good audio reproduction is the re-creation of the actual live music.  As the late Harry Pearson called 'The Absolute Sound'.  In fact, this legendary man founded a journal by that same name - that was originally subscriber paid - with NO advertising.
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Rb,
 thanks for the network cable recommendation, i saw you shared this information already some time ago, so i think my "Audioquest Cinnamon" isnt the best choice between the startechs since it is shielded i think, i found one UTP cable that i can easily order in Germany, do you think this could work?...its called *MeiCord Opal​*  
 https://www.akikoaudio.com/en/other-brands/meicord/147-2013-07-05-12-11-53
  
 thanks


----------



## rb2013

ericp2 said:


> Hi Rb,
> thanks for the network cable recommendation, i saw you shared this information already some time ago, so i think my "Audioquest Cinnamon" isnt the best choice between the startechs since it is shielded i think, i found one UTP cable that i can easily order in Germany, do you think this could work?...its called *MeiCord Opal*​
> https://www.akikoaudio.com/en/other-brands/meicord/147-2013-07-05-12-11-53
> 
> thanks


That looks like It would do the job. Blue Jean Cables don't ship overseas? Their CAt6a is excellent, each cable they make is individually tested, and they provide a test printout for your cable. Mine tested to 550Mhz Not bad for $30. Sounds great.


----------



## REXNFX

Have you tried Tidal with set up, I'm guessing as it would not be using the new storage solution it would not benefit so much?


----------



## music_man

i meant no hard feelings rb. just my findings. a day later you mention that they have changed the chip from fpga to asic and some have issues.. as i did i. so let's be fair. the starttech is no longer available with fpga except maybe old stock but no idea what you are getting i concur with this guy:http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=160276
 to each his own and this is fine with me but it was not personaly my cup of tea that is all. again, i apologize for being harsh about it to begin with. i was disappointed it did not work. now, today you release the possible reason why. let';s jsut be fair. perhpas your system is great and i would love it. here, it either failed to work or did not sound as good a straight usb as is confirmed by the other party at the above link. i am sorry for both of it did not work. any improvement is certainly welcome to me. you do not need to just carry a grudge against me because we got off on the wrong foor. regardless of the equipment i extend my sincere apologies to you for being rude in your thread. other than the device issues that is the best i can do to make amends with you. if you just want to hate me so be it. you are doubtful to see me in this thread much if at all anyways. seeing as this did not work for me and i do not wish to spend hours troubleshooting it. i see what you build and it is very nice. i personally prefer plug and play. instant gratification. i feel if i am paying for my audio gear it should function at once and continuously. that is just my opinion. everyone else is certainly welcome to theirs. i have no il intent honestly. i am sorry my original post rubbed you the wrong way however.


----------



## rb2013

music_man said:


> to each his own and this is fine with me but it was not personaly my cup of tea that is all. again,


 
 Like trying to lose bad luggage


----------



## rb2013

rexnfx said:


> Have you tried Tidal with set up, I'm guessing as it would not be using the new storage solution it would not benefit so much?


 

 No - not really interested in Tidal. Or Spotify.  Or iTunes  Or...


----------



## rb2013

Thinking about where to go next.  Thinking I have pretty much exhausted all avenues.  Really like the SQ of the SSD that runs the OS powered by an external LPS.  Maybe this is better then running the SSD off a SATA power connection from the MB - even if the server is powered by a LPS.  Why?
  
 Well that regulated linear power has to pass through a pretty noisy environment to get to the SSD.  The CPU and other MB chips generate a lot of RFI and EMI on their own.  Not to mention the power draw modulations as the CPU and MB chipset load and unload processes.
  
 Besides the LPS-1 SuperCap trial coming next week - I thought about moving the SSD  completely out of the PC server case.  But I need a longer SATA data cable.
  
 Anybody have any high quality (not super expensive) SATA III cables they could recommend?
  
 Too bad BJC doesn't do a SATA cable.
  
 I found these on Ebay - at least they are shielded.
*3x 24inch SATA 3.0 III SATA3 SATAiii 6GB/s Hard Drive Data Cable Black Braided $4.5 shipped*
 https://vod.ebay.com/vod/FetchOrderDetails?ViewPaymentStatus&purchaseOrderId=726151810014
  
 There are these discussion threads on CA - some folks report that SATA cables do sound different:
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/there-better-sounding-sata-cable-18821/
  
 PS Also ordered this one:
*36inch SATA 3.0 6Gbs cable ,180 to 180deg, UV Blue, metal latch - $7 shipped*
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/36inch-SATA-3-0-6Gbs-cable-180-to-180deg-UV-Blue-metal-latch-/391473291022?hash=item5b25a05f0emDx6I6uCq08zbBdW19XJXgg


----------



## rb2013

After reading the SATA cable discussion that going long and out of the PC case with the OS SSD may be counterproductive.  As that requires a longer SATA cable.
  
 So will try a short one as well:
*6inch SATA3.0 6Gb/s Round Cable,180 to 180 deg,UV Blue -$6 shipped*
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/251288820938


> *coxhaus*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


> *coxhaus*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rb2013

This is an interesting thread on CA:
 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/there-better-sounding-sata-cable-18821/index3.html
  


> *sandyk*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


> *sandyk*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have had good success with these El Fidelity SATA filters and still use them, in my recent test they do make a difference even with the SSD powered by ext LPS:
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Music-Hall-Elfidelity-PC-Filtering-card-SATA-Power-Noise-Filter-purify-PC-HiFi-Hard-disk-Free/32398344719.html


----------



## Paulkouhan

My Laptop has a M2 SSD ...
 I will put some music on it and try it with foobar .
 I have a basic foobar installation, do you have some simple recommendations ?
  
  
 Anyone knows the new ifi usb defender and silencer ?
  
 http://ifi-audio.com/home/products/accessory/
  
 I ordered both ... they may arrive tomorrow.


----------



## music_man

rb, do you ever listen to music or just tweak?


----------



## ericp2

rb2013 said:


> That looks like It would do the job. Blue Jean Cables don't ship overseas? Their CAt6a is excellent, each cable they make is individually tested, and they provide a test printout for your cable. Mine tested to 550Mhz Not bad for $30. Sounds great.


 

 May take a long time, i will try the MeiCord opal its also made for audio applications and its U/UTP fully unshielded, (72 EUR for 1m), by the way i opened my REX today, mine has also the two chips inside, one is a Realtek RTL8211EG Gigabit Ethernet Transceiver, the other one a Cypress CYUSB3314-88LTXC USB3.0 hub controller, both with dedicated clocks, both chips running at 3,3V according to the data sheet


----------



## Paulkouhan

rb2013 said:


>


 
  
 these cards looks interesting too ...
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Music-Hall-Elfidelity-Power-purification-PC-HiFi-CPU-Memory-DDR3-2V-Power-Supply-Filter-Free-shipping/32398842378.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000013.8.UP954q&scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=c3274f7a-34e1-4cee-97ee-1b3c0f0ad917&tpp=1

 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Music-Hall-Elfidelity-PC-HI-FI-Power-Filter-card-PCI-PCI-E-HiFi-PC-audio-power/32396437952.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000013.2.UP954q&scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=c3274f7a-34e1-4cee-97ee-1b3c0f0ad917&tpp=1


----------



## rb2013

Just ordered this one from the UK on Ebay - like $12 USD with shipping
  
 https://vod.ebay.com/vod/FetchOrderDetails?ViewPaymentStatus&purchaseOrderId=726179783014
  
 From the CA thread:


> Ok, now we have got that out of the way. After performing a simple 3 way test of SATA cable vs no SATA cable at all and hearing the obvious benefits of SATA vs no SATA (in my system) I got out of my listening chair and went to my local (Dublin) electronic parts store. There are virtually no physical IT/Electronic stores in Ireland anymore so the few here can charge what they like and I paid an outrageous 12 euros for an obviously heavily screened silver "AKASA" cable. I got the shortest one (45cm). You can get them on Amazon for a lot less, maybe about 5 GBP:​​ ​ http://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-SATA2-...asa+sata+cable​​ ​ Physically when you handle them they are clearly much better made than the cheap and nasty red and blue varieties that came with your motherboard. I have no affiliation with this brand. I was just told they are a popular after market brand with the gamers who actually have similar problems to solve as the audophiles (but from a visual rather than an audio perspective).​​ ​ *I have to say, I was stunned by the difference this outrageously expensive​
> 
> 
> 
> ** 5 quid cable made.* I have absolutely no explanation at all. This silly old audiophool is just reporting the evidence of his ears.​​ ​ 1. The immediate effect was that the clear differences between the SATA cable and no SATA cable use cases were gone. And I mean almost completely gone. On balance, I had a slight preference for​HDDvs​NASor mSATA. But it was now such a subtle difference that I can see why others might prefer it the other way round. To my ears if you listened hard (and you really have to concentrate), the​HDDuse case just seemed marginally clearer, less confused, like the lifting of the thinnest of veils.​​ ​ 2. This is what stunned me. I then swapped the​USBcable out of the 700 USD​SOtM/Battery combi into one of the m/board ports and I was amazed. The​SOtMwas still marginally better but it wasn't a lot and again you would really have to concentrate. All I could really hear was a very slight additional "bloom" on the m/board​USBport. In direct comparison the​SOtMcombi therefore sounded slightly more focused and I preferred it. But I have to say that (in my system) a better made and screened 5 quid​USBcable gave 98% of the benefits of a 700 dollar​USBcard.​


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> My Laptop has a M2 SSD ...
> I will put some music on it and try it with foobar .
> I have a basic foobar installation, do you have some simple recommendations ?
> 
> ...


 

 Yes get the free Fidelizer and run Purist mode - see his instructions for optimizing Foobar (RAM disk cache settings, etc,..)
 http://www.fidelizer-audio.com


----------



## wakka992

paulkouhan said:


> My Laptop has a M2 SSD ...
> I will put some music on it and try it with foobar .
> I have a basic foobar installation, do you have some simple recommendations ?
> 
> ...


 
 I have both, they works good in synergy with iPurifier2 to offer clean power to my Singxer F-1. I power the IDefender with an iPurifier 5v but I'll soon switch to a good LPS.
  
 The iSilencer is a USB decrappifier that works at the USB pc side, the iPurifier works at the USB DAC side (at least that's what iFi Audio state if you ask them).
  
 (P.S. yes, I know, I already have the X-1 so why I bought also the F-1? Hype I guess.... BTW shipping from shenzen audio from china to italy in 2 working day!! I'm astonished)


----------



## rb2013

music_man said:


> rb, do you ever listen to music or just tweak?


 

 Making friends and influencing people...


----------



## wakka992

music_man said:


> rb, do you ever listen to music or just tweak?


 
 You doing that on purpose? roftl


----------



## rb2013

ericp2 said:


> May take a long time, i will try the MeiCord opal its also made for audio applications and its U/UTP fully unshielded, (72 EUR for 1m), by the way i opened my REX today, mine has also the two chips inside, one is a Realtek RTL8211EG Gigabit Ethernet Transceiver, the other one a Cypress CYUSB3314-88LTXC USB3.0 hub controller, both with dedicated clocks, both chips running at 3,3V according to the data sheet


 

 Can you post a photo?


----------



## rb2013

paulkouhan said:


> these cards looks interesting too ...
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Music-Hall-Elfidelity-Power-purification-PC-HiFi-CPU-Memory-DDR3-2V-Power-Supply-Filter-Free-shipping/32398842378.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000013.8.UP954q&scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=c3274f7a-34e1-4cee-97ee-1b3c0f0ad917&tpp=1
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Music-Hall-Elfidelity-PC-HI-FI-Power-Filter-card-PCI-PCI-E-HiFi-PC-audio-power/32396437952.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000013.2.UP954q&scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=c3274f7a-34e1-4cee-97ee-1b3c0f0ad917&tpp=1


 

 I have tried the DDR3 memory filter and did not hear any effect.  I used the fan filters to good effect - when I had fans. The USB card was a waist.  The PPA V2 was much better and actually ran from the PCIe slot not the USB VBUS


----------



## rb2013

Edit - Actually not so interesting...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


​

 


​

 


​

 


​

 


​

 


​

 



 ​


----------



## rb2013

wakka992 said:


> I have both, they works good in synergy with iPurifier2 to offer clean power to my Singxer F-1. I power the IDefender with an iPurifier 5v but I'll soon switch to a good LPS.
> 
> The iSilencer is a USB decrappifier that works at the USB pc side, the iPurifier works at the USB DAC side (at least that's what iFi Audio state if you ask them).
> 
> (P.S. yes, I know, I already have the X-1 so why I bought also the F-1? Hype I guess.... BTW shipping from shenzen audio from china to italy in 2 working day!! I'm astonished)


 

 Italy - so jealous! Deliziosissima!
  
Have you compared the X-1 to the F-1? Hear any SQ differences?  I sure did.


----------



## ericp2

rb2013 said:


> Can you post a photo?


----------



## rb2013

ericp2 said:


>


 
 Thanks - that is the correct ASIC version.


----------



## ericp2

rb2013 said:


> Thanks - that is the correct ASIC version.


 

 good to know thanks


----------



## rb2013

ericp2 said:


> good to know thanks


 
 Looking forward to your listening impressions
  
 Cheers!


----------



## rb2013

Ok folks it looks like my work here is finished - time to move to another forum.
  
 This is my last post on Headfi.
  
 See you chaps at another place to continue this...


----------



## ericp2

rb2013 said:


> Looking forward to your listening impressions
> 
> Cheers!


 

 So far very good
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




i have connected the W4S recovery, iPurifier2 and Singxer F1 in the meanwhile, still need to change my network cable to UTP and get a power supply for the REX after chinese NY


----------



## Clemmaster

Where're you going?


----------



## Paulkouhan

I get the olimex USB isolator : ( 30 € ) today :
  
 https://www.olimex.com/Products/USB-Modules/USB-ISO/
  
 I put it between the PC and the recovery (no 5V between the olimex and recovery).
 => Tight bass, more air, ....
  
 I first tested it on my Headphone set up ( Laptop foobar + NAD D7050 + Hifiman HE 500 plugged on speaker outputs) and get the same impressions.
  
 I will give a try to the Intona one ...


----------



## Paulkouhan

rb2013 said:


> This is my last post on Headfi.


 

 ?? last post for today ??
  
 Please give the results of the SSD tests !! (with music files on it)


----------



## colour97

rb2013 said:


> Ok folks it looks like my work here is finished - time to move to another forum.
> 
> This is my last post on Headfi.
> 
> See you chaps at another place to continue this...


 
 pls pm your another place , we are not done yet.


----------



## ericp2

i agree


----------



## rb2013

I've moved all my future posts to here - done with Headfi!  This discussion and many planned future will be posted there.
 My threads have generated many hundreds of thousands of view and yet I get teated poorly.  Over 6000 posts - but no more.
  
 US Audio Mart :
Ultra USB Chain USB/Ethernet Hybrid Startech/ICRON/LanRover  
 http://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1172
 My handle is tubelover2
  
 Much fun to still be had - @MusicMan you are not invited.


----------



## austinpop

rb2013 said:


> I've moved all my future posts to here - done with Headfi!  This discussion and many planned future will be posted there.
> My threads have generated many hundreds of thousands of view and yet I get teated poorly.  Over 6000 posts - but no more.
> 
> US Audio Mart :
> ...




How unfortunate that you feel compelled to leave. Could you not have put certain people on your ignore list instead?

It feels like you're throwing out the baby with the bath water! I for one, am sorry that you made this decision. It's a loss to head-fi, and it seems, a needless one.


----------



## lazz

rb2013 said:


> That looks like It would do the job. Blue Jean Cables don't ship overseas? Their CAt6a is excellent, each cable they make is individually tested, and they provide a test printout for your cable. Mine tested to 550Mhz Not bad for $30. Sounds great.


 
 Correction rb, BJC do ship overseas.


----------



## rb2013

austinpop said:


> How unfortunate that you feel compelled to leave. Could you not have put certain people on your ignore list instead?
> 
> It feels like you're throwing out the baby with the bath water! I for one, am sorry that you made this decision. It's a loss to head-fi, and it seems, a needless one.


 
 Oh it's not him it's this Moderator Piggo or Brooko or something.  What a jerk.
  
 It's been a great 4 years - 6050 posts - around a million views.
  
 But it time to dump this place - greener pastures!


----------



## music_man

gee whiz man. i did not mean to hurt your feelings. i apologized to you about 100 times. i am not interested in this thread anyways. however there is no reason to leave in a huff. i really did not mean to upset you.  i am very sorry you feel that way. again, my apologies. i am staying out of this thread from here on. i am very sorry i insulted you. i really mean that. i am not joking. i did not realize you were so sensitive. i am terribly sorry. i never meant anything bad to you. i joked around a bit but you took it the wrong way. for that, i am truly sorry.


----------



## tubepower

Grow up Music_man


----------



## music_man

i do not get what your vendetta is against me. you are very thin skinned. i joked around a bit and you got all bent out of shape. then i apologized to you, now about 100 times and you are still upset. i am one who just does not like to hurt peoples feelings. that is the only reason it matters to me. if you want to hate me so be it. i feel bad that i up set you. i honestly do. it is not like i used some scathing words either. i am really sorry i upset you so much. i have no idea why you have such a strong dislike of me. i also feel very bad that you had 6k+ posts and over 1m views and now but 1 post. this cannot possibly be my fault. you in fact said it was someone else. i am seriously very sorry i spoiled your thread if you truly feel that way. i really did not mean you any harm. what else can i say. i am sorry.
  
  
 for something constructive to this thread: i found foir some reason pny drives do not like hubs with a dac on them. i highly suggest sandisk ultra. it is very slow to transfer but plays uncompressed 8x dsd just fine. as i said i have very little to add to this thread anyways. as i did not care for usb over ethernet. myself among others. that is not meant to hurt your feelings. it is just my opinion. ymmv.


----------



## rb2013

music_man said:


> i do not get what your vendetta is against me. you are very thin skinned. i joked around a bit and you got all bent out of shape. then i apologized to you, now about 100 times and you are still upset. i am one who just does not like to hurt peoples feelings. that is the only reason it matters to me. if you want to hate me so be it. i feel bad that i up set you. i honestly do. it is not like i used some scathing words either. i am really sorry i upset you so much. i have no idea why you have such a strong dislike of me. i also feel very bad that you had 6k+ posts and over 1m views and now but 1 post. this cannot possibly be my fault. you in fact said it was someone else. i am seriously very sorry i spoiled your thread if you truly feel that way. i really did not mean you any harm. what else can i say. i am sorry.
> 
> 
> for something constructive to this thread: i found foir some reason pny drives do not like hubs with a dac on them. i highly suggest sandisk ultra. it is very slow to transfer but plays uncompressed 8x dsd just fine. as i said i have very little to add to this thread anyways. as i did not care for usb over ethernet. myself among others. that is not meant to hurt your feelings. it is just my opinion. ymmv.


 
 Your apologies are completely accepted.  I just don't understand why you criticize something you don't own.  You admit you bought the wrong one - so of course it won't work right.  Anyway - I'm leaving due to a very nasty PM I received from the Moderator here.  Just unfair.  I have had my clashes with some before - but I was always treated with some respect.
  
 Folks need to know the history and back story.  You see in my moniker the title 'Contributor' - that was awarded to me for my 6922 Tube review.  This is rarely done here.  I had uncovered a hidden jem in the 6dj8/6922/E88CC/ECC88/E188CC/CCa family.  This is one of the most popular signal tubes used in Audio.
  
 Actually I had 'discovered' the tremendous SQ of a whole group of compatible tubes made in Russia in the 70's for their space program.  They still make them today - but the SQ of a few of these vintage NOS tubes are just superb.  The best I call the 'HG's or 'Holy Grail' 1975 Reflektor 6N23P Silver Shield SWGP.  These tubes were totally unknown until I had gone to extreme lengths to discover (bought over 1,000 6N23P tubes from shady and crooked Eastern Europe Ebay dealers.  Bought a tube tester and began to assemble properly matched pairs to evaluate).  Long, long story - my blogging was initially flamed to a burnt crisp.  Especially after posting my monster tube review.  You see I do nothing half a**ed - I'm in all the way, or not at all.
  
 Not one to roll over I fought back and was banned from Headfi for a few days.  Jude interceded and I was reinstated.  I'm still banned from the Lyr tube rolling thread.
  
 Just Google '6922 Tube Review' and see what pops up #1 in the search.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes
  
 Anyway - these magical HG tubes have become unbelievably popular.  Used to sell for $10 a tube - now you are lucky to find a decent pair for $200.  The nearly overwhelming concurrence on the SQ merits of these tubes has been sweet satisfaction for me.  After many, many bruising battles to fight for their recognition - at least so folks would give them a try.  That in my opinion was my major contribution back to the Audio Community - one that has given me so much musical joy over the decades.
  
 Wash, rinse, repeat on the discovery of the Gustard U12 DDC, and then a whole host of other great (and cheap) DDC's.  On to the XU208 class of DDC's and the Singxer F-1.  I was the gent to put that on the map - and the later SU-1.  Then on to the Rednet 3 AOIP Dante AES67 audio chains.
  
 Now here.  So you see this is not my first rodeo.  IN MY threads - Headfi only a venue for them - I have been the driving force behind these blogs and experiments - has gone largely unrecognized by the Admin here.  Other then my many thanks to Jude for his support.
  
 I do not suffer fools lightly - and you come off as a fool.  So I apologize to you and anyone who felt I treated you unfairly.
  
 But it's time to move on...I have many more exciting audio discoveries to report on...so on we go.
  
 Cheers everyone!


----------



## Narayan23

I don´t know to what extent you´ve been disrespected by a mod Rob but you surely weren´t by music_man, I personally don´t think he wrote anything with ill intention or to fuel your spite, he was genuinely sorry and your treatment of him once he appologized has been far from chivalrous.
  
 I sincerely hope you reconsider leaving, you´re a huge asset to this forum.


----------



## Superdad

rb2013 said:


> But it's time to move on...I have many more exciting audio discoveries to report on...so on we go.


 
  
 Bob:
  
*You would be welcomed over at ComputerAudiophile.com.*  Lots of deep discussion, experimentation, and knowledge over there.  Many sharp--but most always pleasant folks.  But they will question and challenge sometimes if something does not sound right.  That's because there are both engineers and decades into it audiophiles there.  Arrogance and bravado (not saying you have either) is about the only thing that raises hackles at CA.
  
 USAudiomart?  How on earth did you pick that as your new posting-ground?  Their entire forum has only ever seen 3,800 posts (that's posts, not threads)!  You are going from by far the highest-exposure hi-fi site in the world (Head-Fi, look at the Alexa stats) to one that barely even registers a blip (and only because it is a for-sale classifieds site).
  
 Hope you are already enjoying the UltraCap LPS-1 in your system this weekend.  Let us all know what you think.
  
 Best,
  
 --Alex C.


----------



## rb2013

narayan23 said:


> I don´t know to what extent you´ve been disrespected by a mod Rob but you surely weren´t by music_man, I personally don´t think he wrote anything with ill intention or to fuel your spite, he was genuinely sorry and your treatment of him once he appologized has been far from chivalrous.
> 
> I sincerely hope you reconsider leaving, you´re a huge asset to this forum.


 
 Well I'd just refer you his first lengthy post see #483.  Not only saying that the Startech we've been auditioning did not work - but did have it!
  
 Then something about Placebo:


> placebo. like much of audio. high end straight usb chain is fine. must have clean data and especially +5V. i tried the startech rex/lex and it did not even function. requires drivers,setup=bad.


 
 Well is all just baloney.  The Startech USB2G4LEXT2 requires no drivers.  He has obviously failed to read much of the thread. 

 Then he goes after my DAC - what this has to do with the USB Ultra Chain I have no idea.  He is really hard to understand.  Horrible posting (try using the Caps keyboard function - and some spacing).  I get vertigo trying to decode his posts.
  
 Then floods the thread with more half page, incoherent posts see #485, #486, #488. Some thing about balanced and Ethernet.  It just goes on and on...how much can one person take of this ridiculousness.  As I said if he wanted to share so much of his BS - go start his own thread.  Don't spew all this nonsense then get offended when I attempt to stop the fire-hose  - or he get's ignored.  Enough!
  
 But just for the record he never had the right Startech - as I have posted maybe fifty or more times.  The less Startechs sound like garbage.  Yet even when he was found out - he continues on this tirade about USB and Ethernet.  But never had even heard it.  Then mentions him and others...what others?  Show me one other post here negative on the Startech?
  
 I have been here before - fellows like him do huge harm to what we are trying to accomplish.  I had the same thing happen on the tube threads - never bothering to read about the tubes I had rated highly - bought and panned lessor different ones.  Yet insist, as he does, that their false impressions apply to all the proper ones!  Listen much hard work, thought and attention goes into these threads of MINE - no admin, or moderator adds one iota of helpful information.

 Then when someone just crashes a thread spewing false and inaccurate information and impressions - it does much harm to the effort.  I guess you have no trouble with that?  Or his 8-9 half page barely legible - high aggressive - inaccurate posts that just crashed the thread. 
  
 Then he goes on  about me trying to emulate analog with a digital stream - just does not stop provoking. 
  
 If you think I was unchivalrous - then I apologize - I was just trying to keep this thread from going off the rails.  Maybe as he intended.  As Trolls do to threads.  They get off on it. It's happened so many times to great threads. 
  
 Anyway done here - and the new thread is up and running nicely over at my new home.
  
 So cheers to that!


----------



## rb2013

superdad said:


> Bob:
> 
> *You would be welcomed over at ComputerAudiophile.com.*  Lots of deep discussion, experimentation, and knowledge over there.  Many sharp--but most always pleasant folks.  But they will question and challenge sometimes if something does not sound right.  That's because there are both engineers and decades into it audiophiles there.  Arrogance and bravado (not saying you have either) is about the only thing that raises hackles at CA.
> 
> ...




Thanks Alex!  Well I have been a long time member of US Audio Mart (2013) and they are great for listing stuff (free).  They have a very good forum - just needs more participants. 
 
They really provide a valuable service.  I have been a frequent poster on Audiogon, Audio Ayslum, Headfi, etc... It seems like USAM would be an ideal place to write some reviews and explore some other cutting edge ideas I have on bettering audio systems.
 
I'm only looking for a few serious and like minded folks who may not agree with me, but are not 'fools'.  Folks who want to explore better audio - so far our efforts have paid off in spades
 
BTW the LPS-1 just arrived!  And I will be at Peter's this next weekend to preview his JS-2.  I'm bringing along my entire digital front end to use on his excellent system.

So I'll be starting a new thread on USAM about that weekend of listening experiments!  Just posted there my comparison of music files played from the SSD powered by a LPS vs the SLC mSD loaded in the REX.  Interesting results!
 
Cheers!
 
Much, very much more to explore still.


----------



## rb2013

music_man said:


> gee whiz man. i did not mean to hurt your feelings. i apologized to you about 100 times. i am not interested in this thread anyways. however there is no reason to leave in a huff. i really did not mean to upset you.  i am very sorry you feel that way. again, my apologies. i am staying out of this thread from here on. i am very sorry i insulted you. i really mean that. i am not joking. i did not realize you were so sensitive. i am terribly sorry. i never meant anything bad to you. i joked around a bit but you took it the wrong way. for that, i am truly sorry.


 Join us over at P-A free USAM.


New review of the Uptone LPS1...somewhat dis....


----------



## music_man

you are obviously very sensitive and i can understand that. i did not mean to hurt your feelings or realize it was going to. i was mad i got the wrong thing and acted like a jerk about it. i admit that. as far as your equipment i should not have insulted it. however, unless you feel you have reached end game it would serve you to get better equipment than all these usb tweaks. that is just imo. i do know all about russian tubes. some real gems to be had. i use solid state for pleasure but am no stranger to tubes in the studio. you do not have to feel insulted by everything i say. trust me, people say a lot worse things on the internet. i am sorry you do not like me. that is your prerogative though. i have a lot of rep here.


----------



## Sligolad

music_man said:


> it would serve you to get better equipment than all these usb tweaks. that is just imo.


 
 Your opinion has been clear for some time but it is time to let this go......and do you really need to disparage someones equipment or USB tweaks given the thread is about USB!!
 It is such a shame to see a thread derailed like this.......you just could not let it go.
  
 It obviously did not work for you but it has worked wonders for many of us who have been following Robs discoveries.


----------



## Narayan23

music_man said:


> you are obviously very sensitive and i can understand that. i did not mean to hurt your feelings or realize it was going to. i was mad i got the wrong thing and acted like a jerk about it. i admit that. as far as your equipment i should not have insulted it. however, unless you feel you have reached end game it would serve you to get better equipment than all these usb tweaks. that is just imo. i do know all about russian tubes. some real gems to be had. i use solid state for pleasure but am no stranger to tubes in the studio. you do not have to feel insulted by everything i say. trust me, people say a lot worse things on the internet. i am sorry you do not like me. that is your prerogative though. i have a lot of rep here.


 
 You´re obviously very sensitive too and very repetitive which you´ll have to excuse me but is starting to get annoying, let it be, Rob has unfortunately left the building. You´ve said you weren´t going to post in this thread any more two or three times and you´re still at it...maybe you did have ulterior motives after all, please stop baiting Rob into responding.


----------



## ccschua

music_man said:


> you are obviously very sensitive and i can understand that. i did not mean to hurt your feelings or realize it was going to. i was mad i got the wrong thing and acted like a jerk about it. i admit that. as far as your equipment i should not have insulted it. however, unless you feel you have reached end game it would serve you to get better equipment than all these usb tweaks. that is just imo. i do know all about russian tubes. some real gems to be had. i use solid state for pleasure but am no stranger to tubes in the studio. you do not have to feel insulted by everything i say. trust me, people say a lot worse things on the internet. i am sorry you do not like me. that is your prerogative though. i have a lot of rep here.


 
  
 dont live in the dark side. we know your intention is to evil. nobody likes yoiu to be anywhere near this forum.


----------



## rb2013

music_man said:


> you are obviously very sensitive and i can understand that. i did not mean to hurt your feelings or realize it was going to. i was mad i got the wrong thing and acted like a jerk about it. i admit that. as far as your equipment i should not have insulted it. however, unless you feel you have reached end game it would serve you to get better equipment than all these usb tweaks. that is just imo. i do know all about russian tubes. some real gems to be had. i use solid state for pleasure but am no stranger to tubes in the studio. you do not have to feel insulted by everything i say. trust me, people say a lot worse things on the internet. i am sorry you do not like me. that is your prerogative though. i have a lot of rep here.


 
 You have not hurt my feelings - in the slightest - I'm a big boy.  I think you don't read posts  - just like spouting off.  Otherwise you would have not waisted money on the wrong device. 
  
 What you have done is wreck a great thread - that was going very well before you arrived.
  
 As for better equipment - do you think Ayre is totl?  An Ayre DDC? A Ayre DAC better then the $30K APL NWO 3.0 GO - really?  I have always found their equipment tonally thin and bare - sometimes harsh.  Is that the sound your looking for?  I can see why you would not like the beautiful rich tone we are hearing.  I guess you never read my reply to you on my equipment history?
  
 Now you are a tube expert too?  "i do know all about russian tubes."  Funny in my thousands of posts on the 6N23P never heard you chime in with all your vast experience.  So glad you didn't.  You see it's become very clear you are pretty much full of it. 
  
 What's you rep here?  Have you started any ground breaking threads? Large reviews?  Don't see any.
 Have you seen my detailed 17 tube shootout review?  Of course not - you don't read - just spout off.
  
 Well I say to those who want to join the fun over at USAM - the new thread has over 400 views in one day!  Sorry Headfi you have lost out


----------



## music_man

we completely agree. i just prefer a very sharp, highly detailed unforgiving sound. i hate tubes and vinyl. that is just me. i see that you are going for a completely different sound than what i prefer. now, it makes sense to me. that is fine but i see why we clashed. it is really just a misunderstanding. also, to be honest yes i had a ulterior motive. i was very angry i bought the wrong thing to try and now the correct thing is no longer available at my dealer. i honestly do apologize i was a jerk about it and took it out on you though. that is all i can say. the thread does not need to be derailed. carry on. i fully admit i was a jerk at first. you did nothing wrong rob, i did.
  
 i do actually know a lot about tubes but they are not my forte so i just don't discuss them. i have used them extensively but as i said i am going for a completely different sound than you are. there is nothing wrong with what either of us prefer or anyone for that matter. audio is all personal preference. i will tell you if this makes it sound anything like vinyl i would hate it. i like a sharp digital sound. hear every minute detail. study the music. pick it apart. again, you can see why we clashed. we are coming from two completely different schools. i doubt you would touch a ess chip with a ten foot pole. that is fine.
  
 i think having different opinions about audio would not be a big deal. i figure you are unhappy with me because i had been a jerk about it. i was in fact. i took out my frustration on you and for that once again i apologize.
  
 i will make everyone a deal here. if no one replies to this neither will i and i will be out of this thread. i know i said that before. i really don't belong here. i thought it was a great idea. usb over lan. i messed it up. then i realized it will provide a sound i do not even prefer. i have nothing to add to this thread so there is no reason for me to reply. until if and such time i may be interested in revisiting this. i mean ps-audio claims it is the cats whiskers. i don't know. 
  
 as i said if no one says anything about this thread other than something related to audio. even my preference for audio, i will not further add to this thread. i promise.


----------



## Brooko

[Moderator Comment]
  
 Normally I wouldn't do this - but I've had enough, and I'm sick of tired of some members thinking they can slander others and because of our stance on not discussing moderation - basically get away with it.
  
 So here is the recent attacks from Rob - so you can really see what is going on:
  
  


rb2013 said:


> *Oh it's not him it's this Moderator Piggo or Brooko or something.  What a jerk.*
> 
> It's been a great 4 years - 6050 posts - around a million views.
> 
> But it time to dump this place - greener pastures!


 
  
  


rb2013 said:


> Your apologies are completely accepted.  I just don't understand why you criticize something you don't own.  You admit you bought the wrong one - so of course it won't work right.  *Anyway - I'm leaving due to a very nasty PM I received from the Moderator here.  Just unfair.  I have had my clashes with some before - but I was always treated with some respect.*
> 
> Folks need to know the history and back story.  You see in my moniker the title 'Contributor' - that was awarded to me for my 6922 Tube review.  This is rarely done here.  I had uncovered a hidden jem in the 6dj8/6922/E88CC/ECC88/E188CC/CCa family.  This is one of the most popular signal tubes used in Audio.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Now - lets look at the *truth *so you can actually see behind the lies portrayed.
  
 My interaction has been mainly in cleaning up the thread - when things get nasty (and they invariably do when anyone crosses Rob).  In his time here, he's been able to "monster" people out of what he considers to be his thread.  And he does it without sticking to the rules or even following what most people would consider common etiquette.  My only actual interaction with him has been twice.
  

I gave him a simple warning that we don't allow FS notifications in the main forum - its a standard message we issue to any members doing it - and advises how they can put it in their sig.  Here is the PM.  It was never replied to.
   





> Hi,
> I'm sorry, but I've had to edit your post below as for sale (and "Wanted to Buy") posts and threads are not permitted in the main forums (this includes references to them)
> 
> If you wish to promote one of your classifieds, you can add it to the bottom of your signature while editing it using the menus provided.
> ...


 
  
 Yep - nothing untoward in this - standard message, delivered nicely.
  
 And the *only* other one has been when Rob reported music_man multiple times a couple of days ago.  I went through every one of his posts and guess what - m_m was simply conveying his own experience.  He broke no forum rules, and even apologized (profusely) for a misunderstanding with hardware / drivers.  During this exchange - he was unmercifully attacked by Rob.  You all saw it.  And its still there in the thread.
  
 So I replied to Rob with the following - and again got no reply:
  


> Hi
> 
> You flagged the following posts:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/829639/usb-strikes-back-watch-out-aoip-usb-ethernet-chain-beats-all-at-least-for-me/480#post_13207045
> ...


 
  
 Now if from the above - you can construe that I was in any way disrespectful to Rob, or unfair, or nasty, or was even being a "jerk" - then I'm afraid I cannot see it.  I hope you guys can see the real villain.
  
 Regardless of where Rob wants to set up - he is welcome at Head-Fi (he has always been welcome here) as long as he sticks to the rules.  But he has lied to you all, and made an unwarranted and flagrant attack on the Moderation team here - so I am banning him for a month.  Considering what he has done - this is quite lenient.
  
 I will now unlock the thread - but keep all posts intact.  I hope this is a learning experience for all involved.
  
 Paul


----------



## somestranger26

brooko said:


> And the *only* other one has been when Rob reported music_man multiple times a couple of days ago.  *I went through every one of his posts and guess what - m_m was simply conveying his own experience.  He broke no forum rules, and even apologized (profusely) for a misunderstanding with hardware / drivers.*  During this exchange - he was unmercifully attacked by Rob.  You all saw it.  And its still there in the thread.


 
 ***. He bought the wrong device and he posted his "own experience" of how bad it sounds. He "apologized" while still insisting that we don't know what we're hearing despite never owning the device we're talking about. Seems like a total troll to me.


----------



## Brooko

He broke no rules and got abused for it. You can't do that here. It doesn't matter who you are. What happened to empathy?

Not only that- how does that excuse or justify the deplorable response?


----------



## enigmus12

Hi there,
  
 just a few thing from a long time reader of Rob posts without being active (like a large majority of the readers of a forum). I do agree that Rob posts are of use, really, he keeps finding some new stuff in the digital mess that is the market nowadays so my hat off for this. I've purchased a Singxer Su1 thanks to the reading of one of its post and i'll probably will never been aware of it without it. But i've done it only because it was suiting my needs as an audio-gd owner (hdmi i2s and serious design) not because of the sometimes dithyrambicRob's claim.
  
 Anyhow, and as the moderator as pointed it, Rob have a serious problem with the way a forum is working. It seems that he want the whole autority and when he changes his mind or gets some guys trying to argue, he just close the big topic he had created. I was very pleased to read the topic :
  
XMOS XU208 USB BRIDGES - THE LATEST GEN HAS ARRIVED!  But Rob just closed it when switching to AOIP (because of a guy arguing with him). The fact is that the closing of this topic just close any discussion on the matter leaving some people alone with their question that has arise because of him (and a few topics are sometimes popping from those people on singxer etc..,). It's like they are the past and are not to be considered anymore. I mean it is its right to just leave and let others talk about it, but no he just close everything.
  
 It's probably the third big topics he opened and closed like this and that's not a normal behaviour to me. The people saying he is on its right are probably scared to be left alone with their through or to have no more place where to share on the topic.
  
 Rob do things for the community, opens gate and gives all the readers questions but it only provide is own answers and when it doesn't go its way or that he is not interested anymore, he just say "the doors are closedd, no more discussion" in the only topic that was doing the discussion...
  
 I hope he'll get back but also that he gets a more open minded view. I don't like to read such thing from Rob :
 "do you think Ayre is totl?  An Ayre DDC? A Ayre DAC better then the $30K APL NWO 3.0 GO - really? "
  
 Audio is subjective, don't forget it. We are all on our rights just stay open-minded to others and enjoy the discussion.


----------



## Brooko

I just had to remove a number of further posts. As the thread has effectively outlived its usefulness - it is now permanently locked.


----------



## NewMoon

rb2013 said:


> Here is a picture of one of the key components - the Singxer F-1 DDC:
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Singxer-F-1...416314?hash=item282429e17a:g:iZcAAOSwB09YJa5A


Hope you can help. I am New to USB / Digital and have been doing my own chain link, blindly, when i came across this thread (which is excellent by the way) I have a XiangSheng DAC-05B 32bit/384K DSD AK4495 x 2 XMOS. Though it has the Xmos in it, is it still worth putting the Singxer-F-1 in the chain..?? Apologies if that sounds silly..!!


----------



## Zenvota

NewMoon said:


> Hope you can help. I am New to USB / Digital and have been doing my own chain link, blindly, when i came across this thread (which is excellent by the way) I have a XiangSheng DAC-05B 32bit/384K DSD AK4495 x 2 XMOS. Though it has the Xmos in it, is it still worth putting the Singxer-F-1 in the chain..?? Apologies if that sounds silly..!!



The F1 could sound better, but more than likely the increment will be small.  You might be better served by a usb reclocker like the uptone regen/iso regen, wyred4sound recovery, ifi usb ipurifier, etc.  Having a hub chip before the usb>spdif/i2s chip is often beneficial.

You can see by my sig I'm a fan of full isolation from source and ac mains so maybe look into that as well.


----------



## NewMoon

Zenvota said:


> The F1 could sound better, but more than likely the increment will be small.  You might be better served by a usb reclocker like the uptone regen/iso regen, wyred4sound recovery, ifi usb ipurifier, etc.  Having a hub chip before the usb>spdif/i2s chip is often beneficial.
> 
> You can see by my sig I'm a fan of full isolation from source and ac mains so maybe look into that as well.


----------



## NewMoon

Thanks alot for that. That is what I have arrived at. I have ordered wired4sound recovery (LPSU from China).  So it goes - microrendu> recovery> iPurifier3. Dac...!! 

It is already sounding better than I ever dreamed it would and I know there are a few more miles to go. Thanks again.


----------



## cddc

excellent write-up


----------



## bequietjk

For the Recovery, is this the PSU you landed on? 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ter...GT40-DAC-linear-power-supply/32695262102.html

In the picture the unit has a DC output, yet the description tells it has 9V AC output...  Can anyone confirm validity of either description?  I confused.

I have a Recovery on the way.  Looking forward to some benefits!


----------



## Zenvota

bequietjk said:


> For the Recovery, is this the PSU you landed on?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ter...GT40-DAC-linear-power-supply/32695262102.html
> 
> ...



look for a prebuilt lt3042 or lt3045 in a case dc to dc regulator, put that in between w.e power supply you get and the recovery.  probably stick with the chifi lps over the stock smps or ifi ipower but that lt304X regulator is an inexpensive and major upgrade for budget psus.

maybe msg rob on usam he might have some https://www.usaudiomart.com/userprofile.php?user_id=53827


----------

