# Magni 3 Impressions



## CarlosUnchained

Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-900KHz, -3dB

Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 3W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 2W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.3W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 430mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 230mW RMS per channel

THD: Less than 0.001%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS, less than 0.02% at 5V RMS into 32 ohms
IMD: Less than 0.001%, CCIF

SNR: Greater than 108db, unweighted, referenced to 1V RMS

Crosstalk: -70dB, 20 Hz-20KHz

Output Impedance: Less than 0.3 ohms at either gain

Gain: 2 (6db) or 7 (17db), selectable via rear switch
Topology: fully discrete, fully complementary all-bipolar, symmetrical current-feedback design with no capacitors in the signal path and DC servo
Protection: Standard failsafe DC power input and muting relay

Power Supply: “Wall wart” style 24VA 14VAC transformer, regulated +/- 17V rails with over 6,000uF filter capacitance
Power Consumption: 6W

Size: 5 x 3.5 x 1.25”

Weight: 1 lb


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## CarlosUnchained

Anybody with a Vali 2 ordering a Magni 3?

I'd love to hear some comparisons before purchasing.


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## MementoMori99 (Sep 19, 2017)

It is my opinion that for relatively smooth treble, the Vali 2, Asgard 2 and Lyr 2 are the best options for Schiit amps.  I own the Vali 2 because it suits my needs(power and preference for smooth treble) and has a price point of under $200.  I am curious as to whether the Magni 3 has smooth treble.


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## HipHopScribe

CarlosUnchained said:


> Anybody with a Vali 2 ordering a Magni 3?
> 
> I'd love to hear some comparisons before purchasing.



I have a Vali 2, just ordered a Magni 3. I'm curious to see how they compare


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## CarlosUnchained

HipHopScribe said:


> I have a Vali 2, just ordered a Magni 3. I'm curious to see how they compare



Great! Let us know


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## neurofone

I have a Modi 2 / Vali 1 combo and just ordered the Magni 3.   Got a pair of AKG K7XX.  As much as I like the Vali, I can't stand the microphonics every time I touch the volume knob.  Back to solid state !


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## lordskh

I'm interested to see how this will compare with the Asgard 2 given that the Magni 3 stemmed from the development of the Asgard 3 and is less than half the price.


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## genclaymore

I really curious on how it compares to the jotunheim's SE connection. Since it looks like the magni 3 packs alot of power for its small size.


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## RiflemanFirst

HipHopScribe said:


> I have a Vali 2, just ordered a Magni 3. I'm curious to see how they compare



I'm considering buying a Magni 3 to go with my Mimby/Vali 2 stack as well. Looking forward to reading your impressions!


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## Matt*S.

Ordered a Magni 3, currently using a Maverick D2 DAC, we'll see how it sounds soon.  I'll be comparing it with a Meier Corda Aria as well as a LD MKIII.


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## ToddRaymond

I think I'm gonna try one downstream from my Saga, a la 'Sagaheim'.  Previously I had a Vali 2 (among many other Schiit amps), but had to sell off a bunch of stuff.  I'm curious how Saga > Magni 3 will compare to the Vali 2, which I found to very enjoyable.


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## CarlosUnchained

genclaymore said:


> I really curious on how it compares to the jotunheim's SE connection. Since it looks like the magni 3 packs alot of power for its small size.



Magni 3 can do balanced. Just buy two and a splitter. Still $200 cheaper than the Jot and nothing less than 6W RMS @ 16 Ohms.


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## TjPhysicist

ok guys question: i can swap my M2 for an M3 (I use mrspeakers Aeon so don't REALLY need the extra power). *BUT* *the switch will cost me $50-$70.*...should i do it?


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## TjPhysicist

CarlosUnchained said:


> Magni 3 can do balanced. Just buy two and a splitter. Still $200 cheaper than the Jot and nothing less than 6W RMS @ 16 Ohms.


is that really how that works? i just hook up w magni's to my modi via a splitter and now i have a balanced mega-magni?


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## Pyrolistical (Sep 19, 2017)

CarlosUnchained said:


> Magni 3 can do balanced. Just buy two and a splitter. Still $200 cheaper than the Jot and nothing less than 6W RMS @ 16 Ohms.


How do you convert the two 3 pole 1/4" to a single 4 pin xlr?

You would need to pin out the XLR male jack with:
pin 1: left T+R
pin 2: left S
pin 3: right T+R
pin 4: right S

Dunno where you would buy such a cable...

Schiit should do an Aprils fools joke that puts two Vidars in monoblock into a single larger chassis and adds the specs together


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## volly

MementoMori99 said:


> It is my opinion that for relatively smooth treble, the Vali 2, Asgard 2 and Lyr 2 are the best options for Schiit amps.  I own the Vali 2 because it suits my needs(power and preference for smooth treble) and has a price point of under $200.  I am curious as to whether the Magni 3 has smooth treble.



This might help:
"the Magni CFA prototype was damn near ideal, especially for an entry-level amp. Subjectively, it was a *warmer-than-neutral* amplifier with good dynamics and very good detail. I could see a whole heck of a lot of people being happy with it."

I have the Asgard 2 and Vali 2, both, I love with affection. Deciding today whether to buy the Magni 3. 

Take it with a grain of salt but I got a really good feeling about this $99 amp and the way it sounds!

This schiit is impressive stuff!


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## Tim Le

So much power.. AND a gain switch for my IEMs. Take my money, Schiit. Just put in an order.


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## alpovs

Pyrolistical said:


> Dunno where you would buy such a cable...


Just make one. Or find someone who would make one.


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## LazyListener

Sound-wise, the Magni 2 was good, but not great.  I really hope the Magni 3 is one of those rare, once in a great while, products that sounds 10x better than anything else near its price.


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## Nick-s-f

Dat volume knob.


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## JimJames

Does this mean they might be coming up with a modi 3 too? Cause I might be getting a stack soon enough...


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## CarlosUnchained

JimJames said:


> Does this mean they might be coming up with a modi 3 too? Cause I might be getting a stack soon enough...



I don't know if soon, but I don't see why the Modi 2U could become the only Modi for $99 seeing the cost reduction of the Magni with the new chasis.


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## TjPhysicist

CarlosUnchained said:


> I don't know if soon, but I don't see why the Modi 2U could become the only Modi for $99 seeing the cost reduction of the Magni with the new chasis.


With the Modi though the option of "no AC power" is actually something that people might want/aim for. Unless they come up with Modi3 which has the ability to run off of USb power OR require being plugged in for high gain mode or something. Else, a lot of people will be buying that extra combined AC adapter thing with their stacks.


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## CarlosUnchained

TjPhysicist said:


> With the Modi though the option of "no AC power" is actually something that people might want/aim for. Unless they come up with Modi3 which has the ability to run off of USb power OR require being plugged in for high gain mode or something. Else, a lot of people will be buying that extra combined AC adapter thing with their stacks.



True that. I'd rather go for the wall powered one just because I can use Toslink with my Apple TV to stream music wirelessly.


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## BuddhaBruce

TjPhysicist said:


> ok guys question: i can swap my M2 for an M3 (I use mrspeakers Aeon so don't REALLY need the extra power). *BUT* *the switch will cost me $50-$70.*...should i do it?



How do you get the option to switch upgrade? I'd do it for my Magni 2u


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## decodm (Sep 20, 2017)

BuddhaBruce said:


> How do you get the option to switch upgrade? I'd do it for my Magni 2u



I think he probably meant he'll sell his Magni 2 Uber and buy a Magni 3...

*EDIT*: I'm probably mistaken. Apparently,  according to Schiit, people who bought a Magni 2 or Magni 2 Uber in the last 30 days can also get a refund/swap for Magni 3.


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## manukmanohar

Any idea when these would start shipping?


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## HipHopScribe

manukmanohar said:


> Any idea when these would start shipping?



Yesterday


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## aviduser2

So i was thinking about magni 3 + modi 2, but wondered if i should hold of and wait for modi 2. What tells me that modi 2 won't get a upgrade is that they changed the modi 2 to brushed alu finish as well which wouldn't make sense if modi 3 was around the corner.


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## UninMeowtown

aviduser2 said:


> So i was thinking about magni 3 + modi 2, but wondered if i should hold of and wait for modi 2. What tells me that modi 2 won't get a upgrade is that they changed the modi 2 to brushed alu finish as well which wouldn't make sense if modi 3 was around the corner.



Regardless of whether a modi update is coming, visually unifying the modi/magni lines is a good decision. Makes the stack look nice now no matter what flavor of modi you're carrying.


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## tullnd

Argh, I literally ordered a Magni 2 Uber on August 14th.  Received it like 4 days later I think.  I love the unit...and I really don't mind that I paid more than $99 for it, but I do prefer the looks of the new model due to the volume knob.   Ugh...just my luck.


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## decodm

tullnd said:


> Argh, I literally ordered a Magni 2 Uber on August 14th.  Received it like 4 days later I think.  I love the unit...and I really don't mind that I paid more than $99 for it, but I do prefer the looks of the new model due to the volume knob.   Ugh...just my luck.



Same here - not only the looks of the new volume knob, but the pot is supposed to have a better ramp up.


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## Zbell

Wow, I just bought one and I'm so stoked for this.  I currently own the Magni 2U, which was already the best deal on an affordable solid state amp at $149.  The Magni 3 being released at $99 is absolutely amazing.  Now I can bring my Magni 2U to work instead of using my LG V10 (which surprisingly, I find very shouty and a tad harsh amp-wise) or Fiio E17.  I know Schiit is known for tearing down the price-to-performance barrier, but this is just ridiculous.  Props fellas!


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## CarlosUnchained

I would love to read some first impressions guys! Let us know when they arrive.


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## Matt*S.

I have tracking information for mine.  It will be delivered at work on Tuesday the 26th.  I will give it the afternoon and report my findings.


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## hifihead

I just received the Magni 3. Here's my quick impressions after about 30 minutes of listening to DSD, CD, and internet radio. I used my Grado SR325e headphones to test. The amp is plenty powerful for me. The volume goes way higher than I listen to. Pretty revealing, the sound is definitely dependent on the source, which is a good thing. Plenty of bass for me, even using Grado headphones, which are known to not be bass monsters. Nice mids and highs. The pot is better than the one on the Magni 1. Better volume control and feel when turning the knob. The amp gets a little warm, but not hot at all. All around a nice little amp. I haven't tested the preamp outputs yet. 

If you keep your expectations realistic, I think you will be happy with this $99 amp. I think it's a fantastic value. Can't expect much more for $99.

Well done, Schiit. Thanks for making great products at a great price!


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## manukmanohar

hifihead said:


> I just received the Magni 3. Here's my quick impressions after about 30 minutes of listening to DSD, CD, and internet radio. I used my Grado SR325e headphones to test. The amp is plenty powerful for me. The volume goes way higher than I listen to. Pretty revealing, the sound is definitely dependent on the source, which is a good thing. Plenty of bass for me, even using Grado headphones, which are known to not be bass monsters. Nice mids and highs. The pot is better than the one on the Magni 1. Better volume control and feel when turning the knob. The amp gets a little warm, but not hot at all. All around a nice little amp. I haven't tested the preamp outputs yet.
> 
> If you keep your expectations realistic, I think you will be happy with this $99 amp. I think it's a fantastic value. Can't expect much more for $99.
> 
> Well done, Schiit. Thanks for making great products at a great price!



Would be interested in hearing your impressions on comparing it with other amps, at higher price ranges, in case you have any. Ofc, once you are able to get more time listening.


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## ColtMrFire

hifihead said:


> I just received the Magni 3. Here's my quick impressions after about 30 minutes of listening to DSD, CD, and internet radio. I used my Grado SR325e headphones to test. The amp is plenty powerful for me. The volume goes way higher than I listen to. Pretty revealing, the sound is definitely dependent on the source, which is a good thing. Plenty of bass for me, even using Grado headphones, which are known to not be bass monsters. Nice mids and highs. The pot is better than the one on the Magni 1. Better volume control and feel when turning the knob. The amp gets a little warm, but not hot at all. All around a nice little amp. I haven't tested the preamp outputs yet.
> 
> If you keep your expectations realistic, I think you will be happy with this $99 amp. I think it's a fantastic value. Can't expect much more for $99.
> 
> Well done, Schiit. Thanks for making great products at a great price!



How would you characterize the sound?  Warm, neutral, bright?  The soundstage?  Wide, deep, narrow?  What about transparency, instrument timbre, etc?  More details would be helpful.


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## hifihead

Sound is neutral, not tube warm and definitely not bright. Grado SR325e are already bright enough and if it was a bright amp it would probably make the SR325e even brighter. Soundstage is average width. In my experience, soundstage is more affected by the headphone than the amp. It has good clarity. Instruments sound like they should and don't sound artificial.


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## Magic77 (Sep 21, 2017)

hifihead said:


> Sound is neutral, not tube warm and definitely not bright. Grado SR325e are already bright enough and if it was a bright amp it would probably make the SR325e even brighter. Soundstage is average width. In my experience, soundstage is more affected by the headphone than the amp. It has good clarity. Instruments sound like they should and don't sound artificial.



Sounds very good. Just ordered one too. Looking forward to comparing to other amps, such as my Burson Soloist MKII, which is also a discrete amp. Yes, the Burson costs 4 times the Magni 3, but you never know. I'm impressed by the specs for the Magni 3.


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## Uri Cohen

I ordered mine today with the Modi 2 Uber (for casual listening on my laptop I didn't want to get the Multibit, plus on my main setup I do use the Bifrost Multibit).   I will get mine next week.  I'm curious how good a $100 amp can be.


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## RiflemanFirst (Sep 21, 2017)

Hmmmm... Deciding whether to go for the Magni 3 or splurge on a Jotunheim. I've been wanting to get a Jotunheim to use with my Mimby for a while, but the Magni 3 seems to be such a good value! It really just comes down to staying single ended or going balanced for me at this point.


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## Marlowe

RiflemanFirst said:


> Hmmmm... Deciding whether to go for the Magni 3 or splurge on a Jotunheim. I've been wanting to get a Jotunheim to use with my Mimby for a while, but the Magni 3 seems to be such a good value! It really just comes down to staying single ended or going balanced for me at this point.



But if you want to use the unbalanced Mimby, you probably can't take advantage of the Jot's balanced output. I was trying to decide between the Jotunheim and Valhalla 2 for an amp upgrade and asked Schiit if I could get the benefit of the increased power of the Jotunheim's balanced outputs if I continued to use Mimby as my DAC. Their response: "If you go with Mimby as your DAC, you won't get a truly balanced configuration." (I did ask Schiit to clarify whether or not I would be able to use the more powerful balanced outputs of the Jotunheim even if, as I already knew, the setup was not truly balanced, but surprisingly got no response.) I bought the Vahalla 2, which should be delivered tomorrow.

BTW, if you really want to go balanced, you might want to consider the Cavalli Liquid Carbon X, which is available now on Massdrop. It has a very different topology than the Jotunheim, using phase splitters on its single ended inputs to create a balanced signal through the amp. According to Cavalli and Massdrop, you can connect an unbalanced DAC to the RCA inputs and still get a balanced output. I seriously considered this, but aside from leaning to tubes for my HD700 and incoming 6XX, the LCX is not estimated to ship until February 28, 2018, in the end a deal breaker.


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## JoeKickass (Sep 22, 2017)

Both S.E. and balanced outputs on the Jotunheim are active with either input; single ended in and balanced out sounds great and has immense power!

But I'm looking forward to see how the Magni 3 pairs with the HD 600/650/800

Lots of people think the Jot pairs great with the 600/650 but is a bit too bright for the 800, it would be funny if the $100 Magni 3 is a good pair with the $1,000 HD 800!


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## DavidA

Marlowe said:


> But if you want to use the unbalanced Mimby, you probably can't take advantage of the Jot's balanced output. I was trying to decide between the Jotunheim and Valhalla 2 for an amp upgrade and asked Schiit if I could get the benefit of the increased power of the Jotunheim's balanced outputs if I continued to use Mimby as my DAC. Their response: "If you go with Mimby as your DAC, you won't get a truly balanced configuration." (I did ask Schiit to clarify whether or not I would be able to use the more powerful balanced outputs of the Jotunheim even if, as I already knew, the setup was not truly balanced, but surprisingly got no response.) I bought the Vahalla 2, which should be delivered tomorrow.
> 
> BTW, if you really want to go balanced, you might want to consider the Cavalli Liquid Carbon X, which is available now on Massdrop. It has a very different topology than the Jotunheim, using phase splitters on its single ended inputs to create a balanced signal through the amp. According to Cavalli and Massdrop, you can connect an unbalanced DAC to the RCA inputs and still get a balanced output. I seriously considered this, but aside from leaning to tubes for my HD700 and incoming 6XX, the LCX is not estimated to ship until February 28, 2018, in the end a deal breaker.



The balanced output of the Jot is not dependent on using the balanced or SE inputs, so you can use the Mimby while using the balanced output of the Jot as many have done.  The Vahalla2 while a decent match for the HD700 and HD650/6XX is not an amp that many would suggest for the HE400i or X2.

Agree that the wait until Dec (CTH) or Feb (LCX) is way too long but its a great deal for the price.

I'm hoping some that have order the Magni3 will compare it to the Polaris and Ember since I'm quite familiar with them and am looking for a small compact amp for my lanai system


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## nicoch46 (Sep 22, 2017)

Marlowe said:


> But if you want to use the unbalanced Mimby, you probably can't take advantage of the Jot's balanced output. I was trying to decide between the Jotunheim and Valhalla 2 for an amp upgrade and asked Schiit if I could get the benefit of the increased power of the Jotunheim's balanced outputs if I continued to use Mimby as my DAC. Their response: "If you go with Mimby as your DAC, you won't get a truly balanced configuration." (I did ask Schiit to clarify whether or not I would be able to use the more powerful balanced outputs of the Jotunheim even if, as I already knew, the setup was not truly balanced, but surprisingly got no response.) I bought the Vahalla 2, which should be delivered tomorrow.
> BTW, if you really want to go balanced, you might want to consider the Cavalli Liquid Carbon X, which is available now on Massdrop. It has a very different topology than the Jotunheim, using phase splitters on its single ended inputs to create a balanced signal through the amp. According to Cavalli and Massdrop, you can connect an unbalanced DAC to the RCA inputs and still get a balanced output. I seriously considered this, but aside from leaning to tubes for my HD700 and incoming 6XX, the LCX is not estimated to ship until February 28, 2018, in the end a deal breaker.



is totaly wrong the story about  headphone is balanced , head is like a speakers a  single ended device all amp in the world have a SINGLE ENDED OUT but can be dual mono ie have the signal ground separate L/R   ie 4 wire like a speaker, like you have on  out Jotuneim 4 wire, but if you look back is real balanced infact you will see 6 pin NOT 4
Cavalli to split SE>BAL then BAL>SE is only a non sense  thing  !  the thing is : avoid conversion is a must
hopes this helps


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## sheldaze

JoeKickass said:


> But I'm looking forward to see how the Magni 3 pairs with the HD 600/650/800
> 
> Lots of people think the Jot pairs great with the 600/650 but is a bit too bright for the 800, it would be funny if the $100 Magni 3 is a good pair with the $1,000 HD 800!



Definitely warmer than the Jot I owned, but still very punchy in the bass. I like how Magni 3 sounds with my HD800S, while I never considered the Jot an option for that headphone.

Magni 3 is presenting details in a way it truly has not a right to do, at its price. The longer I listened, the more I felt it was wiping the floor of sub-$1000 amplifiers. I have not heard the upcoming offerings from MassDrop, but I did feel this true against the Carbon - perhaps if you chose the Carbon specifically for its warmth (which is still warmer), it could be considered a value. Otherwise, I would say no. Headphones I used thus far are HD650, LCD-4, Utopia and HD800S. The Magni 3 did not blink - it handled each with wonderful finesse, detail, and authoritative punch.


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## MementoMori99

sheldaze said:


> Definitely warmer than the Jot I owned, but still very punchy in the bass. I like how Magni 3 sounds with my HD800S, while I never considered the Jot an option for that headphone.
> 
> Magni 3 is presenting details in a way it truly has not a right to do, at its price. The longer I listened, the more I felt it was wiping the floor of sub-$1000 amplifiers. I have not heard the upcoming offerings from MassDrop, but I did feel this true against the Carbon - perhaps if you chose the Carbon specifically for its warmth (which is still warmer), it could be considered a value. Otherwise, I would say no. Headphones I used thus far are HD650, LCD-4, Utopia and HD800S. The Magni 3 did not blink - it handled each with wonderful finesse, detail, and authoritative punch.



How does the overall general tone and treble smoothness, in particular, of the Magni 3 compare with the Vali 2 with stock tube or other tubes?


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## MementoMori99

sheldaze said:


> Definitely warmer than the Jot I owned, but still very punchy in the bass. I like how Magni 3 sounds with my HD800S, while I never considered the Jot an option for that headphone.
> 
> Magni 3 is presenting details in a way it truly has not a right to do, at its price. The longer I listened, the more I felt it was wiping the floor of sub-$1000 amplifiers. I have not heard the upcoming offerings from MassDrop, but I did feel this true against the Carbon - perhaps if you chose the Carbon specifically for its warmth (which is still warmer), it could be considered a value. Otherwise, I would say no. Headphones I used thus far are HD650, LCD-4, Utopia and HD800S. The Magni 3 did not blink - it handled each with wonderful finesse, detail, and authoritative punch.



Perhaps it is true that the Magni 3 as Jason has mentioned in the "Schiit Happened" thread has provided a good compromise or was able to spilt the difference between it(class A/B) and Asgard 2(class A) as far as tonal and sound quality is concerned?


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## nicoch46

MementoMori99 said:


> Perhaps it is true that the Magni 3 as Jason has mentioned in the "Schiit Happened" thread has provided a good compromise or was able to spilt the difference between it(class A/B) and Asgard 2(class A) as far as tonal and sound quality is concerned?


not only the class but  in single ended there is more H2 in PP the can be lower or H3 dominant or a right mix


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## sheldaze

Harder to compare Vali 2 and Magni 3, using just tonal quality and smoothness in the comparison. First, as I recall, Vali 2 was not as detailed as Magni 3 - details have become important to me, particularly as I go up the scale of headphones to Utopia and LCD-4, which do quite well with detail. Second, I never used those headphones on Vali 2. I did recall swapping tubes to try to extract more details out from the Vali 2 for use with the HD800S. But then I was not as enthusiastic about the sound through the HD650, on which I enjoyed the stock tube.

In general, I would state the Vali 2 is a more relaxed tone, but with sacrifice made to details. The Magni 3 is more aggressive, but this is more to do with attack, letting the percussive elements hit with more authority, not a frequency imbalance. I will need to directly A/B against some other amplifiers. Was more posting in response to questions about how it compared with the Jot. The Jot I owned had higher quantity of treble.


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## MementoMori99

sheldaze said:


> Harder to compare Vali 2 and Magni 3, using just tonal quality and smoothness in the comparison. First, as I recall, Vali 2 was not as detailed as Magni 3 - details have become important to me, particularly as I go up the scale of headphones to Utopia and LCD-4, which do quite well with detail. Second, I never used those headphones on Vali 2. I did recall swapping tubes to try to extract more details out from the Vali 2 for use with the HD800S. But then I was not as enthusiastic about the sound through the HD650, on which I enjoyed the stock tube.
> 
> In general, I would state the Vali 2 is a more relaxed tone, but with sacrifice made to details. The Magni 3 is more aggressive, but this is more to do with attack, letting the percussive elements hit with more authority, not a frequency imbalance. I will need to directly A/B against some other amplifiers. Was more posting in response to questions about how it compared with the Jot. The Jot I owned had higher quantity of treble.



Thank you.


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## RiflemanFirst

sheldaze said:


> Harder to compare Vali 2 and Magni 3, using just tonal quality and smoothness in the comparison. First, as I recall, Vali 2 was not as detailed as Magni 3 - details have become important to me, particularly as I go up the scale of headphones to Utopia and LCD-4, which do quite well with detail. Second, I never used those headphones on Vali 2. I did recall swapping tubes to try to extract more details out from the Vali 2 for use with the HD800S. But then I was not as enthusiastic about the sound through the HD650, on which I enjoyed the stock tube.
> 
> In general, I would state the Vali 2 is a more relaxed tone, but with sacrifice made to details. The Magni 3 is more aggressive, but this is more to do with attack, letting the percussive elements hit with more authority, not a frequency imbalance. I will need to directly A/B against some other amplifiers. Was more posting in response to questions about how it compared with the Jot. The Jot I owned had higher quantity of treble.



Thanks for sharing. The brightness reported by many users is what has held me back from buying a Jot. If the Magni 3 is more forgiving in that regard, it gives me more reason to buy the new Magni instead. I already have a Vali 2 for a more "mellow" sound, so the Magni 3 would be a great solid state addition to my Schiit stack.


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## volly

RiflemanFirst said:


> Thanks for sharing. The brightness reported by many users is what has held me back from buying a Jot. If the Magni 3 is more forgiving in that regard, it gives me more reason to buy the new Magni instead. I already have a Vali 2 for a more "mellow" sound, so the Magni 3 would be a great solid state addition to my Schiit stack.


Chuck a Tungsram tube in the Vali 2 if you want to wake it up a little, but yes, the Magni 3 would be a great addition. Judging from early impressions is that the Magni 3 is going to be a great sounding $99 headphone amp!


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## Marlowe

DavidA said:


> The balanced output of the Jot is not dependent on using the balanced or SE inputs, so you can use the Mimby while using the balanced output of the Jot as many have done.  The Vahalla2 while a decent match for the HD700 and HD650/6XX is not an amp that many would suggest for the HE400i or X2.



Well, that is exactly what I wanted to know from Schiit. I thought their response (not Nick but someone else) was ambiguous and asked for a clarification last week. Surprisingly, since all my previous questions were answered within hours, I never got a response. I'm aware that the Vahalla 2 is not ideal for the 400i; I don't listen to it often and when I do I use the Magni 2U. (As for the X2, I have not listened to it in months, but the Magni is available for it as well.) If the reviews of the Magni 3 continue to be as good as they appear initially, I just may pick one up eventually to have some flexibility; it's likely not dramatically better than the Magni 2U, but it's so darn cheap. In any case, I think my emotional preference (if that makes sense) was to stay with tubes for now and I don't have any present plans to buy additional cans. The Vahalla 2 is out for delivery as I type.


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## genclaymore (Sep 22, 2017)

Marlowe said:


> Well, that is exactly what I wanted to know from Schiit. I thought their response (not Nick but someone else) was ambiguous and asked for a clarification last week. Surprisingly, since all my previous questions were answered within hours, I never got a response. I'm aware that the Vahalla 2 is not ideal for the 400i; I don't listen to it often and when I do I use the Magni 2U. (As for the X2, I have not listened to it in months, but the Magni is available for it as well.) If the reviews of the Magni 3 continue to be as good as they appear initially, I just may pick one up eventually to have some flexibility; it's likely not dramatically better than the Magni 2U, but it's so darn cheap. In any case, I think my emotional preference (if that makes sense) was to stay with tubes for now and I don't have any present plans to buy additional cans. The Vahalla 2 is out for delivery as I type.


Thats currently how I using my jotunheim running 3.5 from my AE-5 into the RCA inputs while using the XLR outputs on the rear for my JBL 305's and the XLR on the front for my R70X, When I originally message schiit about it before I got the jot, it was nick who told me that you would still get balance from any of the RCAon the jotunheim because of it's topology . So the person who email you, could had been some one else, unless nick didn't have his coffee yet.


----------



## erics75

MementoMori99 said:


> How does the overall general tone and treble smoothness, in particular, of the Magni 3 compare with the Vali 2 with stock tube or other tubes?


i have both, and a jot and fulla 2. got my m3 yesterday, so these impressions are very early, with only 3 hours listening time, one of which was directly comparing vali 2 to m3, to see which will be my work amp. i'll spend this weekend doing more listening and will provide more detailed impressions later. but here are my initial impressions after 3 hours. chain is phone w/tidal hifi, modibit, m3/vali 2, t90. yes, i love my t90, treble and all. 

first thought when listening for the first 20 mins was "refined". the older magni's had a slight glare in the treble, and a touch of shouty-ness, if you will. that's not present in the m3. despite the more refined highs, its still a very detailed amp. it's very transparent, very neutral. i started to think warm, but honestly, i dont think it is. it's just refined and mostly colorless. nothing stood out to me, other than my headphones and the music. that's a win, for me. 

running splitters from modi to the m3 and vali 2 (with eh gold pin tube), i volume matched them to 80db and swapped back and forth. they're very close overall. what i found though is the vali is a touch warmer. there was more thickness to the notes, more body. more liquid, if you will. treble sounded slightly rounded off, less extended. the t90 is bright, and the vali 2 softens it's presentation noticeably. it has a noticeable sound signature. honestly, i find it boring overall. with the stock tube, eh gold pin, and genelex gold lion, it just sounded too smooth, too even toned. nothing stood out, other than it's smooth and slightly warm. 

going to the m3, the first thing i noticed was....nothing. all my other amps have a tonal character that i recognize immediately. not so with the m3. i think that's due to only 3 hours ear time, so this WILL change as i learn the amp more. but it just sounded good, and i just couldnt shake that feeling of "nothing". that the amp was very very transparent. but like i said, that's going to change over time as i get used to it, i'm sure. but it's just clean sounding. clean, clear, and neutral. i cant say it's bright, i cant say it's dark. i honestly cant say much other than it sounds really good. i prefer it to the vali for sure. why? it lacks the vali's smooth and slightly rounded presentation. it's more detailed and honest to the headphones and music. to put it into a headphone analogy, it's like the hd600 vs the hd650. i find the 600 the more honest and neutral set. 

some other observations - again, compared to older magni's, the treble is much better. less glare, less etching. i found the older magni's to start sounding harsh past 3000k. not so with the m3, it's cleaner. 

after 15 mins going back and forth with the jot, i thought it sounded very similar in it's clarity, just not as energetic. the jot sounds a bit spastic for whatever reason. more extension at the top and bottom, though i wouldnt say more detail. it's just a more dynamic sounding amp. not dramatically so though. they're more alike than i expected. the m3 just sounds more composed, more even. the jot is more exuberant. sorry for the non-technical terms, i'm not good at descriptions. given the short amount of time though, the only real thing i kept noticing was the jot's extra dynamics. it was just a slightly brighter, harder hitting amp. it's "fun", the m3 more natural. 

only about 5 mins on the fulla 2, and to be honest, it made me appreciate the fulla even more than i already do. the fulla is harsher, less detailed, hazier, but not by such a degree as i'd have expected. it's still amazing sounding for the price. and has plenty of power for my t90, ether c, and other more efficient headphones. but the fulla 2 does sound more raw and rough around the edges compared to the modibit/m3. it's leaner, less dynamic, and much harsher at from 6k on. to these ears, the fulla gets annoying with bright music and bright headphones. i dont like my beyers on it much. the ether c does fine, it's smooth sounding. but my favorite headphones for the fulla 2 are my darker ones, like my nightowl, nad hp50, or b&o h6 gen 2. those sound really good as they brighten up a bit with the fulla. i havent tried them on the m3 yet, only the t90. 

so overall, i'm quite impressed with the m3. i think if you want transparency, it's far superior to the vali 2. the vali adds flavor to the sound. if that's your goal, it's the better option. if you want an amp that just gets out of the way, i find the m3 to be the best of my current bunch. i have a grace m9xx at work with the vali, and i'll bring it home to compare to the m3. i find the grace to be quite transparent as well. i'm curious how it will compare to the m3. i'll try using the grace dac with the m3 doing amp duties. then i'll compare the grace as a dac/amp, to the modibit/m3 combo. i will say this, i hate the modibit/vali 2 combo for some reason! it's too soft, too smooth. maybe a different tube is needed. but i think its just my growing preference for lean clarity. 

take all this with a major grain of salt as i ONLY LISTED FOR 3 HOURS. my impressions are initial and will change. i have the m3 here at work today with the grace doing dac duties, and my t70 work phones (told you i like lean clear sounds). after 2 hours of listening, i'm liking this combo alot! there's no character to it, other than being "characterless" so far. i like that. how you like the m3 will depend on what you want from it. 

hope this helps. for anyone considering the m3, just get it. it's cheap, sounds great, and is so flexible in it's usage. you can run ANYTHING from it. and because it's mostly transparent, your choice of headphone will be the real deciding factor regarding how your system will sound. 

more impressions after the weekend.


----------



## erics75

just a quick note on the jotunheim, there seems to be some confusion. regardless if your input (se or balanced), if you plug in a headphone into the balanced output, you're getting the full power of the jot. whether that's "true balanced" or not, i cant say, i dont fully understand the science. but in terms of power, if you have headphones with a balanced termination, you'll be getting the full power the jot has on tap. i run my jot with a modibit, and find that to be an excellent pairing.


----------



## ColtMrFire

@erics75 thanks for that detailed break down.  I have the T90 as well and love it.  Not too far from the HD800 (I compared them), which is amazing considering I got the T90 for $300.  Amazing headphone if you're not treble sensitive.


----------



## erics75

ColtMrFire said:


> @erics75 thanks for that detailed break down.  I have the T90 as well and love it.  Not too far from the HD800 (I compared them), which is amazing considering I got the T90 for $300.  Amazing headphone if you're not treble sensitive.


Yeah I'm so glad I grabbed the t90. Got it open box for 199  

Does the hd800 offer enough extra to upgrade? I'm always on the fence with that one.


----------



## MementoMori99 (Sep 22, 2017)

erics75 said:


> i have both, and a jot and fulla 2. got my m3 yesterday, so these impressions are very early, with only 3 hours listening time, one of which was directly comparing vali 2 to m3, to see which will be my work amp. i'll spend this weekend doing more listening and will provide more detailed impressions later. but here are my initial impressions after 3 hours. chain is phone w/tidal hifi, modibit, m3/vali 2, t90. yes, i love my t90, treble and all.
> 
> first thought when listening for the first 20 mins was "refined". the older magni's had a slight glare in the treble, and a touch of shouty-ness, if you will. that's not present in the m3. despite the more refined highs, its still a very detailed amp. it's very transparent, very neutral. i started to think warm, but honestly, i dont think it is. it's just refined and mostly colorless. nothing stood out to me, other than my headphones and the music. that's a win, for me.
> 
> ...



Thank you.  For the time being, I am quite pleased with the Vali 2(w/Tesla E88CC tube) with my Nightowls(w/hybrid earpads).  On the other hand, if I was in the market for my first hp amp, the M3 offers a compelling value at $50 less($99 vs $149).


----------



## qqqqdd123

erics75 said:


> Yeah I'm so glad I grabbed the t90. Got it open box for 199
> 
> Does the hd800 offer enough extra to upgrade? I'm always on the fence with that one.


I think T90 and HD800 has similar sound style. But definitely, HD800 is in another level. You will love it with an tube amp.


----------



## almarti

Now I am using Mimby > Marantz Integrated Amp > Speakers, as headphone output at Marantz is not what I want to connect my Ether Flows
My question: Mimby > Magni 3 > Marantz Integrated Amp > Speakers is a safe setup?
I want to connect the Ether Flows to Magni 3 and when not maintain current configuration to use speakers.
Is this possible; I understood Magni 3 connect RCA output when headphones are not connected and connect RCA when cans are not connected, correct?
If so, which volume level should I fix when using through integrated amp?


----------



## MementoMori99

erics75 said:


> i have both, and a jot and fulla 2. got my m3 yesterday, so these impressions are very early, with only 3 hours listening time, one of which was directly comparing vali 2 to m3, to see which will be my work amp. i'll spend this weekend doing more listening and will provide more detailed impressions later. but here are my initial impressions after 3 hours. chain is phone w/tidal hifi, modibit, m3/vali 2, t90. yes, i love my t90, treble and all.
> 
> first thought when listening for the first 20 mins was "refined". the older magni's had a slight glare in the treble, and a touch of shouty-ness, if you will. that's not present in the m3. despite the more refined highs, its still a very detailed amp. it's very transparent, very neutral. i started to think warm, but honestly, i dont think it is. it's just refined and mostly colorless. nothing stood out to me, other than my headphones and the music. that's a win, for me.
> 
> ...



Since the Vali 2 gives a 2dB boost at low gain compared with 6dB boost at same setting with the M3, my concern is that the M3 will not be usable at low levels.  For example, most of the time I rarely cross over the 9 o' clock volume position on the Vali 2 with my Nightowls.  What do you think?  Any input would be very much appreciated.


----------



## erics75

MementoMori99 said:


> Since the Vali 2 gives a 2dB boost at low gain compared with 6dB boost at same setting with the M3, my concern is that the M3 will not be usable at low levels.  For example, most of the time I rarely cross over the 9 o' clock volume position on the Vali 2 with my Nightowls.  What do you think?  Any input would be very much appreciated.


you'll definitely be below 9 on the dial, but should still be ok in general. i would say this though, the vali 2 to magni 3 is mostly a sidegrade, not an upgrade. just different flavors. if you want a lighter, clearer signature, then yes the m3 would be a nice fit. just dont expect a dramatic difference. the differences will be noticeable, but still subtle. that being said, on low gain you'll be fine with the m3 and nightowl.


----------



## erics75

qqqqdd123 said:


> I think T90 and HD800 has similar sound style. But definitely, HD800 is in another level. You will love it with an tube amp.


awesome, thanks!


----------



## erics75

almarti said:


> Now I am using Mimby > Marantz Integrated Amp > Speakers, as headphone output at Marantz is not what I want to connect my Ether Flows
> My question: Mimby > Magni 3 > Marantz Integrated Amp > Speakers is a safe setup?
> I want to connect the Ether Flows to Magni 3 and when not maintain current configuration to use speakers.
> Is this possible; I understood Magni 3 connect RCA output when headphones are not connected and connect RCA when cans are not connected, correct?
> If so, which volume level should I fix when using through integrated amp?


i LOVE my ether c (non flow) with my jotunheim, and the jotunheim is similar sounding to the magni 3, so in my opinion it's a great pairing. as for using the magni as a preamp, i'll have to defer to others as i've not used it as such, and dont feel comfortable commenting, in case i'm mistaken in my assumptions. sorry i cant help you with the preamp question. but as a headphone amp for the ether, i think you'd like it.


----------



## erics75

MementoMori99 said:


> Thank you.  For the time being, I am quite pleased with the Vali 2(w/Tesla E88CC tube) with my Nightowls(w/hybrid earpads).  On the other hand, if I was in the market for my first hp amp, the M3 offers a compelling value at $50 less($99 vs $149).


have you tried an eh gold pin tube? i'd love to know your thoughts on how they compare. with the stock tube and eh gold pin, i'm struggling to like my vali 2. it's not bad sounding by any means, just not exciting enough for me. a bit too mellow...


----------



## almarti

erics75 said:


> i LOVE my ether c (non flow) with my jotunheim, and the jotunheim is similar sounding to the magni 3, so in my opinion it's a great pairing. as for using the magni as a preamp, i'll have to defer to others as i've not used it as such, and dont feel comfortable commenting, in case i'm mistaken in my assumptions. sorry i cant help you with the preamp question. but as a headphone amp for the ether, i think you'd like it.


Great, thanks


----------



## MementoMori99

erics75 said:


> have you tried an eh gold pin tube? i'd love to know your thoughts on how they compare. with the stock tube and eh gold pin, i'm struggling to like my vali 2. it's not bad sounding by any means, just not exciting enough for me. a bit too mellow...



Unfortunately, I have not had the pleasure of trying the EH 6922 gold or standard pin tube.  If I do sometime in the future, I will let you know.


----------



## MementoMori99

erics75 said:


> have you tried an eh gold pin tube? i'd love to know your thoughts on how they compare. with the stock tube and eh gold pin, i'm struggling to like my vali 2. it's not bad sounding by any means, just not exciting enough for me. a bit too mellow...



FYI, I am currently running the following set-up:  iPhone 6>Dragonfly Red(DAC only)>Vali 2(w/Tesla E88CC tube)>Nightowl(w/hybrid earpads).  At least to my ears, compared with the stock tube the Tesla tube has a bit more, but still relatively smooth treble and tighter bass that goes a little deeper in the sub bass.  Hope this helps.


----------



## erics75

MementoMori99 said:


> FYI, I am currently running the following set-up:  iPhone 6>Dragonfly Red(DAC only)>Vali 2(w/Tesla E88CC tube)>Nightowl(w/hybrid earpads).  At least to my ears, compared with the stock tube the Tesla tube has a bit more, but still relatively smooth treble and tighter bass that goes a little deeper in the sub bass.  Hope this helps.


thanks! i'll look into that tube


----------



## MementoMori99

erics75 said:


> thanks! i'll look into that tube



You are very welcome.


----------



## winders

Get a 6922 to 5670 adapter and buy a Western Electric 396A tube. That will do it.....


----------



## Jimster480

CarlosUnchained said:


> Magni 3 can do balanced. Just buy two and a splitter. Still $200 cheaper than the Jot and nothing less than 6W RMS @ 16 Ohms.


You would still have two volume controls and you would have to balance them as such.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Jimster480 said:


> You would still have two volume controls and you would have to balance them as such.



Okeeey, put a SYS before


----------



## Jimster480

Tim Le said:


> So much power.. AND a gain switch for my IEMs. Take my money, Schiit. Just put in an order.



Both of the gains are high, I am worried about the power/volume control for IEM's.


----------



## DavidA

erics75 said:


> have you tried an eh gold pin tube? i'd love to know your thoughts on how they compare. with the stock tube and eh gold pin, i'm struggling to like my vali 2. it's not bad sounding by any means, just not exciting enough for me. a bit too mellow...


While the EH and gold lion are decent tubes you might want to try a Telefunken CCa or Siemens CCa, these are quite pricy these days but are about the cleanest and most dynamic tubes I have for my Lyr2 and Ember.  The Reflektor is one of the cheaper tubes that gets close to the Telefunken and Siemens.


----------



## erics75

DavidA said:


> While the EH and gold lion are decent tubes you might want to try a Telefunken CCa or Siemens CCa, these are quite pricy these days but are about the cleanest and most dynamic tubes I have for my Lyr2 and Ember.  The Reflektor is one of the cheaper tubes that gets close to the Telefunken and Siemens.


thanks man! i'll look those up! one nice thing about the vali is you only need one tube


----------



## Jimster480

CarlosUnchained said:


> Okeeey, put a SYS before


So you have 3 volume controls?


----------



## ductrung3993

sheldaze said:


> Definitely warmer than the Jot I owned, but still very punchy in the bass. I like how Magni 3 sounds with my HD800S, while I never considered the Jot an option for that headphone.
> 
> Magni 3 is presenting details in a way it truly has not a right to do, at its price. The longer I listened, the more I felt it was wiping the floor of sub-$1000 amplifiers. I have not heard the upcoming offerings from MassDrop, but I did feel this true against the Carbon - perhaps if you chose the Carbon specifically for its warmth (which is still warmer), it could be considered a value. Otherwise, I would say no. Headphones I used thus far are HD650, LCD-4, Utopia and HD800S. The Magni 3 did not blink - it handled each with wonderful finesse, detail, and authoritative punch.


So you're saying that Carbon is not that much better than Magni 3?


----------



## FrostyP

CarlosUnchained said:


> Okeeey, put a SYS before


Insteat of a Schiit Stack it would be a Schiitipede


----------



## RiflemanFirst

Well, I decided to join in on the action. Ordered a Magni 3 a few moments ago!


----------



## ColtMrFire

erics75 said:


> Yeah I'm so glad I grabbed the t90. Got it open box for 199
> 
> Does the hd800 offer enough extra to upgrade? I'm always on the fence with that one.



The 800 does everything a little bit better, some things much better.

It is more refined, especially in the treble.  But treble all the way to the bass has better articulation of details and voice/instrument timbre.  It is closer to the actual source/real life sound of instruments.  You get a better idea of what the artist/recording mixer was going for.

The things it does much better are soundstage... more depth, width and height.  It is kind of hard to believe.  And you get a better idea of the recording space, especially with classical and jazz.  And the instruments and players are more defined and better represented in three dimensional space... better imaging basically.  You can pinpoint sounds alot better.

Bass isn't as plentiful, but it is more refined and much more realistic sounding in terms of impact.  Bass feels like it is being thrown across the room in a live recording, just as if you were there.  Instead of the bass sounding like it is being pumped from the headphone, it feels like it is coming from somewhere in the soundstage.  Amazing to witness.

There is an obvious lack of distortion to the sound.  It is much cleaner, but only slightly clearer, though the T90's more elevated treble can be more revealing of certain details.  But there is more clarity in the overall soundscape as a whole since things are more refined.  

It has much better mids.  The mids were probably the most amazing thing.  Hard to describe, but they just felt "right".  Totally smooth, but not gooey or overally romantic.  Hard to put into words.

But the 800 is alot more irritable and high maintenance and people need to know that before buying it.  The T90 sounds good (almost) no matter what it's plugged into.  The 800 is completely ruthless in its revealing of your chain.  Not just the amp, but DAC, cables and even quality of AC power.  It took months for me to get the right combo and make sure everything was working properly, otherwise the 800 will punish you by telling you something isn't right.  The biggest issue was power... I had to get a decent power conditioner, otherwise the treble was hard on the ears because of the dirty power in most homes.  Then I had to make sure all my cables were clean on the ends (I use metal polish like Brasso and a q-tip)... not just the interconnects, but Coax cable, and even the metal ends of the power cords.  Yes, absolutely everything had to be cleaned.  But even then something was not right.  It ended being my blue jeans Coax cable.  There was a considerable veil to that cable that made everything kind of muddy sounding.  When I got a better one it was a night/day difference and amazing after that.  The 800 would not let me rest until everything was high quality and clean.  I even had to regularly clean the laser on my CD player.  I said everything, remember?

And this isn't even getting into proper amp matching.  Out of all the amps I tried, the best was probably the Valhalla 2.  800 takes on the characteristics of the amp much more than the T90, which kind of has its own sound signature and that doesn't really change.  The 800 can go from sounding terrible to god-like depending on the amp.  It scales like a monster.  You don't need an expensive amp to get amazing sound, just the right amp.  Valhalla 2 is only $350.  It also sounded great out of the Magni 2 Uber, but less refined and less powerful.  Jotunheim was kind of overkill... incredibly aggressive.  A bit too much.


----------



## erics75

ColtMrFire said:


> The 800 does everything a little bit better, some things much better.
> 
> It is more refined, especially in the treble.  But treble all the way to the bass has better articulation of details and voice/instrument timbre.  It is closer to the actual source/real life sound of instruments.  You get a better idea of what the artist/recording mixer was going for.
> 
> ...


That was awesome, thanks for such a detailed comparison!


----------



## erics75

Anyone with a jotunheim and m3 noticing the bass is a bit subdued on the m3 in comparison? Its softer with less impact and fine detail. The jot seems to clearly resolve the note, whereas with the m3 it sounds like I put a cotton ball in the ear cups, though not so dramatic as that would seem.

Oh anyone try blue man group for bass testing? They have since incredibly dynamic bass presentations.


----------



## AudioBear

I received my Magni 3 at noon today. I set it up to play using 24/96 and 16/44 FLAC files from a NUC-ROCK --> ethernet--> Odoid C2 running Roon/DietPi --> Gumby--> Magni 3 -->  H800S.  I listened for 30min to Kodo Drums because I wanted to evaluate the bass since most reports have been about the treble.  I listened to a couple of other tracks (vocal, guitar). Magni 3 is indeed impressive.  Very detailed, very neutral, very real sounding and very much in control.  The bass was clean, tight, and realistic.  I don't believe that amp break-in should produce a staggeringly different sound but just in case I have the Magni 3 set up to run continuously for 2 days.  I'll do some serious listening after that.  I couldn't be more impressed with my first listen to a $99 amp.  It's also very attractive and nicely built.  It's a keeper.

I'll try some Blue Man Group when the burn-in is over.


----------



## wasupdog

this is an insane value at $99.  it's like to amps what the mimby is to dacs.  i'm giving this an early listen with the mimby and hek v2.  

it already sounded very good when I started listening after having it on for 30 minutes.  i went back after 2 hours and it opened up more.  that's when i could tell the sound signature comes straight from the Jot which I sold a while back because i couldn't stand the treble, and this was using low gain with HD6xx.  I never used my Hek v2 with the Jot because I could tell after a few seconds that it was a bad pairing imo.  

the m3 has a warmer sound overall and the treble is toned down to the point where there's no harshness even on shrill tracks.  usually in this price range you always have some sort of compromise that niggles at you which is why the m3 and mimby pairing is so striking.  you can legitimately drive TOTL phones and be satisfied.  the only downside to this setup, that i can think of, is if you're looking for a portable and/or battery powered setup.  

my mainstay is the rag paired with a yggy.  i want to say that the magby is like a junior version of this but it's really more like a junior version of a warmer voiced jot paired with a schiit multibit dac.  it's still a good sample of what the yaggy combo sounds like on a budget.  yaggy just gives you a little more of everything in all areas with a more refined sound.


----------



## cherrypepsi

How does Magni 3 compare to Valhalla 2? I only have Valhalla 2 and I do want to try some solid state amp. I original would like to get a jot but I don't really need the balanced output. And now magni 3 which priced at $99 is really tempting.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

Jimster480 said:


> So you have 3 volume controls?



Magnis in the same level and only changing the SYS


----------



## NA Blur

Can we please get back to actually impressions of the Magni 3?

I hear from a close friend that it is warmer and more detailed than the Magni 2 Uber. The volume know is an excellent improvement and that the M3 does not get very warm if at all.

I really want a comparison between this and the Jot. Anyone?


----------



## ColtMrFire

NA Blur said:


> Can we please get back to actually impressions of the Magni 3?
> 
> I hear from a close friend that it is warmer and more detailed than the Magni 2 Uber. The volume know is an excellent improvement and that the M3 does not get very warm if at all.
> 
> I really want a comparison between this and the Jot. Anyone?



We never stopped talking about the Magni.

And there is a comparison to the Jot on the previous page.


----------



## Tuneslover

ColtMrFire said:


> We never stopped talking about the Magni.
> 
> And there is a comparison to the Jot on the previous page.



Yes but we want MORE.


----------



## ColtMrFire

I'm sure people will give impressions when they have time.


----------



## ToddRaymond

ColtMrFire said:


> I'm sure people will give impressions when they have time.



Exactly.  And if the impressions and comparisons aren't coming fast enough, there's always option B:  spend the $99 plus shipping.


----------



## Tim Le

Hey guys, just got my Magni 3! I've only been listening for 3 hours, but I am super impressed with it!

I know some of you guys were worried about it not being a good match for IEMs. Rest assured, my JH Angie and Aurisonics ASG 2.0 both run with zero hiss in low impedance. I will echo with some of the previous owners have said, but this amp is an incredible value at $100. I'm not too good at describing sound, but compared to my Valhalla 2, you can definitely tell it is more neutral and true to the recording. If I had to combine it to an amp I've heard, it sounds a lot like the iFi Micro iDSD, which costed me $400 at the time I got it.

Overall, I'm very happy with this little amp. For those of you who only have a tube amp, this would make a great little addition to your setup to give you a more neutral and detail oriented reproduction of your music.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Tim Le said:


> JH Angie and Aurisonics ASG 2.0



What's the volume knob at on the Magni 3 when you're listening to these IEMs?  I'm assuming 100% on the computer but if it isn't that would be good to know as well.  The thing I'm most interested about is the stated "better low-volume control" due to the tweaked potentiometer since my Magni 2 is a bit too powerful once both channels are balanced.


----------



## Jimster480

Tim Le said:


> Hey guys, just got my Magni 3! I've only been listening for 3 hours, but I am super impressed with it!
> 
> I know some of you guys were worried about it not being a good match for IEMs. Rest assured, my JH Angie and Aurisonics ASG 2.0 both run with zero hiss in low impedance. I will echo with some of the previous owners have said, but this amp is an incredible value at $100. I'm not too good at describing sound, but compared to my Valhalla 2, you can definitely tell it is more neutral and true to the recording. If I had to combine it to an amp I've heard, it sounds a lot like the iFi Micro iDSD, which costed me $400 at the time I got it.
> 
> Overall, I'm very happy with this little amp. For those of you who only have a tube amp, this would make a great little addition to your setup to give you a more neutral and detail oriented reproduction of your music.


How much volume control do you have? Because I know that with my Fulla2 I had basically ZERO volume control as 9 oclock was already too loud on my IEM's and my Sensitive RP-HD10 headphones.


----------



## Tim Le

With Magni 3 on low gain, Spotify max volume, and CPU volume at 80/100, I generally listen at around 9-10 o' clock.  I'm not sure about the older Magni, but the volume pot starts at around 6:30-7:00 o' clock on the Magni 3. If I really want to jam out, I can listen at 12 o' clock. Anything past that is near ear splitting for me. 

I did listen at 1 o' clock for a bit just to give you guys some impressions. I noticed no distortion, the bass continued to stay nice and controlled. The treble is nice and smooth and wasn't shouty at the higher volume.

So realistically, with IEMs, you can use anything on the volume knob from 7 o' clock to 1 o' clock (I'm sure there are those of you who listen much louder than me).


----------



## yangian

Tim Le said:


> Hey guys, just got my Magni 3! I've only been listening for 3 hours, but I am super impressed with it!
> 
> I know some of you guys were worried about it not being a good match for IEMs. Rest assured, my JH Angie and Aurisonics ASG 2.0 both run with zero hiss in low impedance. I will echo with some of the previous owners have said, but this amp is an incredible value at $100. I'm not too good at describing sound, but compared to my Valhalla 2, you can definitely tell it is more neutral and true to the recording. If I had to combine it to an amp I've heard, it sounds a lot like the iFi Micro iDSD, which costed me $400 at the time I got it.
> 
> Overall, I'm very happy with this little amp. For those of you who only have a tube amp, this would make a great little addition to your setup to give you a more neutral and detail oriented reproduction of your music.



What headphones you use with Valhalla2? Do you have HD600? Does M3 has the soundstage of Valh2?


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser (Sep 23, 2017)

Has anyone tried the Magni 3 with the HD650?? I need an amp for my HD650 and was going to get the Magni 2 back in July but waited... So now that the Magni 3 is an option, how does it pair and should I get it? (The boost of power to 430mw@300ohms seems perfect for them.) Thanks for the great impressions so far!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I know I don't need it. But the given impressions really makes me wanna buy one


----------



## Ynot1

I think amping is still an art, but I have been vehemently debated that with digital technics you can replicate any system response. 
If so and with dac bypass technology, is it premature to even not consider anything released today, when knowing art will be annihilated by science,
specifically digital modeling. I think it is bad for jobs, but everybody seems to be looking out for themselves. I wonder though, one listen of this magni 3 will annihilate science.


----------



## HipHopScribe (Sep 23, 2017)

Just plugged in my Magni 3, gonna let it warm up for a bit. Impressions and comparisons to the Vali 2 coming soon


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

HipHopScribe said:


> Just plugged in Magni 3, gonna let it warm up for a bit. Impressions and comparisons to the Vali 2 coming soon



cool! I wonder how does it sounds with HD6XX


----------



## Tuneslover

Tim Le said:


> With Magni 3 on low gain, Spotify max volume, and CPU volume at 80/100, I generally listen at around 9-10 o' clock.  I'm not sure about the older Magni, but the volume pot starts at around 6:30-7:00 o' clock on the Magni 3. If I really want to jam out, I can listen at 12 o' clock. Anything past that is near ear splitting for me.
> 
> I did listen at 1 o' clock for a bit just to give you guys some impressions. I noticed no distortion, the bass continued to stay nice and controlled. The treble is nice and smooth and wasn't shouty at the higher volume.
> 
> So realistically, with IEMs, you can use anything on the volume knob from 7 o' clock to 1 o' clock (I'm sure there are those of you who listen much louder than me).



How is the sensitivity of the Magni 3 volume knob?  My original Magni and Magni 2U was kind of rinkidink...channel imbalance at low volume, very tight knob that was difficult to turn smoothly, difficult to tell where on the volume knob is set due to the dim little dot.  The Jot volume knob is fantastic.


----------



## yangian

Why Magni 3, with power consumption of only 6w, is more powerful than Asgard 2, with power consumption of 30w?!


----------



## AudioBear

Power consumption is certainly something we think about these days but quality of sound output takes precedence.  I am very curious to hear how a pure Class A amp like the Asgard 2 sounds compared to Magni 3.  My first impression of the Magni 3 is that it is very good, but I have nothing like it to compare with, another reason for interest in Asgard 2.  Class A amps do have the disadvantage or running at full power 100% of the time so they will never be as efficient as other designs.  I run my HT set-up on Class D amps (heresy to Jason and Mike but hey, it's HT!).  The amps run very cool and use almost no power.


----------



## luso721

I wonder if the Magni 3 could handle the HE6


----------



## Nick-s-f

yangian said:


> Why Magni 3, with power consumption of only 6w, is more powerful than Asgard 2, with power consumption of 30w?!


Different amp designs, the A2 is one of Schiits oldest amps and inefficient Class A. It has giant capacitors and what appears to be a transformer on it's board. It was one of the more powerful headphone amps to come along back in it's day.

When they designed the original Magni, it was quite a leap in efficiency. I'm still impressed how powerful their original fulla was for its size being an amp/dac.


----------



## Jimster480

Tim Le said:


> With Magni 3 on low gain, Spotify max volume, and CPU volume at 80/100, I generally listen at around 9-10 o' clock.  I'm not sure about the older Magni, but the volume pot starts at around 6:30-7:00 o' clock on the Magni 3. If I really want to jam out, I can listen at 12 o' clock. Anything past that is near ear splitting for me.
> 
> I did listen at 1 o' clock for a bit just to give you guys some impressions. I noticed no distortion, the bass continued to stay nice and controlled. The treble is nice and smooth and wasn't shouty at the higher volume.
> 
> So realistically, with IEMs, you can use anything on the volume knob from 7 o' clock to 1 o' clock (I'm sure there are those of you who listen much louder than me).


What IEM's are these? Because you are suggesting you can use 50% volume on an Amp that has 2W RMS using IEMs?
That just doesn't make much sense


----------



## Jimster480

Nick-s-f said:


> Different amp designs, the A2 is one of Schiits oldest amps and inefficient Class A. It has giant capacitors and what appears to be a transformer on it's board. It was one of the more powerful headphone amps to come along back in it's day.
> 
> When they designed the original Magni, it was quite a leap in efficiency. I'm still impressed how powerful their original fulla was for its size being an amp/dac.


Fulla 2 is very powerful for its size especially!


----------



## DavidA

Jimster480 said:


> What IEM's are these? Because you are suggesting you can use 50% volume on an Amp that has 2W RMS using IEMs?
> That just doesn't make much sense


You are thinking that at 50% volume (based on position of the knob) the amp is putting out 1W which is not what is happening since most volume pots are not linear so it might only be putting out 10-25mW at the 50% position


----------



## ToddAr1 (Sep 24, 2017)

I received my Magni 3 yesterday and did some early comparisons before letting it run overnight and doing some more listening this morning.  I did some A/Bs with the Jotunheim, using the Yggy as the DAC for both.  Headphones used were Beyer T1s (original), Beyer DT880s (600 Ohm), Focal Elear, and Audeze LCD 2.2.

At this point, the Jotunheim still sounds better overall.  It sounds slightly cleaner, with slightly clearer treble.  I’ve seen the Magni 3 described as warmer, but it can also be characterized as slightly darker.  I want to emphasize the differences are minor, and it is easy enough to just listen with the Magni 3 and not really miss anything.

To some of the listening I performed, noting that I listen extensively to classical music:


Lana Del Rey, Lust for Life: the Magni presents the singers’ voices extremely well, and is just as satisfying as the Jotunheim.  Bass is basically the same, and fine details are present.


Air, Moon Safari: the warmer presentation of the Magni works fantastically well here, making it even more of an electronic dream, with Beth Hirsch’s voice as seductive as ever.


Róisín Murphy, Overpowered: Murphy’s voice sounds splendid, and the Magni generates headphone equivalents of thumping bass quite well.  Again, some fine detail seems slightly less clear here than through the Jotunheim, and the Magni sounds slightly less spacious with some of the spatial and phase effects used in the recording.


Led Zeppelin III (newest remastering): I’ve listened to this in various forms (LP, cassette, CDs) hundreds of times for decades, and everything sounds just fine.  Everything sounds just right, everything in the mix is there, and the vocals and instruments sound as natural as the new remastering allows.


Ludwig van Beethoven, Piano Sonatas Opp 90, 101, 106 played by Steven Osborne on Hyperion: I selected this and the next recording to hear how well the Magni resolves fine details that are not musical in nature.  Specifically, in this recording, the damper mechanism is audible throughout, as a soft ‘swish’ sound, and the Magni presents it just fine, if not quite as cleanly as the Jotunheim.  This doesn’t lead directly to musical satisfaction, but it does render the upper registers of the piano a bit less crystalline, and slightly warmer sounding.  I can envision some people preferring this type of sound.  Dynamic range is superb and on par with the Jotunheim.


Gustave Samazeuilh, Piano Music played by Olivier Chauzu on Grand Piano: pretty much the same as above, but here, Chauzu’s pedal stomps might actually be slightly more prominent through the Magni.


Johannes Brahms, Piano Music played by Arcadi Volodos on Sony: this recording, one of the greatest recordings ever of any of Brahms’ piano music, sounds rich and dark and full, and the Magni slightly magnifies the richer and darker sound.  The sound of Volodos’ fingernails hitting the keys is audible, demonstrating the fine detail is there.  The Magni works exceedingly well here.


Richard Strauss, Don Quixote conducted by Lorin Maazel with Steven Isserlis playing cello on RCA.  The slight diminution of clarity with the Magni is obvious here in the slightly less clear orchestral sections and slightly less distinctive wind trills.  The sound is less spacious than the Jotunheim, as well.  Again, the differences are minor, but they are there. 

Here I ran into a volume limitation using the DT 880s.  The recording is low level, requiring near unity gain through a conventional stereo, and I actually maxxed out the volume control.  It was loud, to be sure, with big dynamic swings and forte tuttis slightly louder than comfortable (which is what I was shooting for), but I have some recordings even lower in level than this, and they might not be able to be played at a satisfying volume with the 600 Ohm DT 880s.  There is no such limitation with the other headphones mentioned

The Magni works well with all the headphones listed.  I’m a big fan of the Beyer sound, which I know not everyone is, and I must say that when paired with the DT 880, the result is especially good.  The T1s and LCD 2.2s benefit from the greater refinement of the Jotunheim, while the Elears sound best, to my taste, when paired with the original Asgard.  (I did not do any A/Bs with my other headphone amps yet.)  Overall, for a hundred bucks, the Magni 3 is the Schiit.


----------



## luso721

ToddAr1 said:


> I received my Magni 3 yesterday and did some early comparisons before letting it run overnight and doing some more listening this morning.  I did some A/Bs with the Jotunheim, using the Yggy as the DAC for both.  Headphones used were Beyer T1s (original), Beyer DT880s (600 Ohm), Focal Elear, and Audeze LCD 2.2.
> 
> At this point, the Jotunheim still sounds better overall.  It sounds slightly cleaner, with slightly clearer treble.  I’ve seen the Magni 3 described as warmer, but it can also be characterized as slightly darker.  I want to emphasize the differences are minor, and it is easy enough to just listen with the Magni 3 and not really miss anything.
> 
> ...



If it's warmer/darker, it might be able to tame the treble on my 400i. Looks pretty promising. Thanks!


----------



## AudioBear

@ToddAr1 

Thanks for the impressions of Magni 3.  It almost sounds like it's a toss-up with the Jot which is quite amazing at $99.  If we put a pair of headphones on your head and turned on Led Zepelin or Don Quixote could you tell us which of the two were playing?


----------



## ToddAr1

AudioBear said:


> @ToddAr1 If we put a pair of headphones on your head and turned on Led Zepelin or Don Quixote could you tell us which of the two were playing?



Yes, especially with the classical selections.


----------



## Jimster480

DavidA said:


> You are thinking that at 50% volume (based on position of the knob) the amp is putting out 1W which is not what is happening since most volume pots are not linear so it might only be putting out 10-25mW at the 50% position



Well it could be not linear but even if it was making 500ma that would be WAYYYY too much for IEM's.
Even at 250 it would nearly blow your ears out with almost any IEM possible.
I mean even something like the 1More Quad is rated at 5mw, the highest draw IEM I've personally seen (in terms of spec) is 30mw.
So this is why it seems unreal to be able to use it at half volume, unless Schiit engineered the first like 50mw to be in half of the Pot and somehow the rest past the halfway mark? But that would cause a seriously insane increase in volume past 50% so its highly unlikely, especially considering that they use all analog components I don't actually think its possible with a standard Alps POT.


----------



## nicoch46

*Gain:* 2 (6db) or 7 (17db), selectable via rear switch is for IEM , case close!


----------



## Jimster480

nicoch46 said:


> *Gain:* 2 (6db) or 7 (17db), selectable via rear switch is for IEM , case close!


6db gain is already like 2x? Thats already way too high. But I suppose that the 2x gain would reduce the power of the Magni considerably.
I would love if someone from Schiit would chime in as to the power outputs being in favor of IEMs or not.


----------



## ColtMrFire

ToddAr1 said:


> I received my Magni 3 yesterday and did some early comparisons before letting it run overnight and doing some more listening this morning.  I did some A/Bs with the Jotunheim, using the Yggy as the DAC for both.  Headphones used were Beyer T1s (original), Beyer DT880s (600 Ohm), Focal Elear, and Audeze LCD 2.2.
> 
> At this point, the Jotunheim still sounds better overall.  It sounds slightly cleaner, with slightly clearer treble.  I’ve seen the Magni 3 described as warmer, but it can also be characterized as slightly darker.  I want to emphasize the differences are minor, and it is easy enough to just listen with the Magni 3 and not really miss anything.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this.  Were you able to compare it to the Asgard?


----------



## ToddAr1

ColtMrFire said:


> Thanks for this.  Were you able to compare it to the Asgard?



Not yet.  I'll probably do that in the next few days.


----------



## HipHopScribe (Sep 24, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> 6db gain is already like 2x? Thats already way too high. But I suppose that the 2x gain would reduce the power of the Magni considerably.
> I would love if someone from Schiit would chime in as to the power outputs being in favor of IEMs or not.



Using my Trinity Atlas IEMs with PC volume at 100% I've found listenable volume is between about 8-10 o'clock on the dial and the volume knob is very usable at low volumes, more so than the Vali 2 and much better than the Fulla 2, and I don't think I listen to music especially loud. So it does seem like Schiit has improved the usability of the knob at low volumes as they've said, and low gain will probably work for most people with IEMs, unless they're especially sensitive or you prefer very low volumes.


----------



## RickB

HipHopScribe said:


> Using my Trinity Atlas IEMs with PC volume at 100% I've found listenable volume is between about 8-10 o'clock on the dial and the volume knob is very usable at low volumes, more so than the Vali 2 and much better than the Fulla 2, and I don't think I listen to music especially loud. So it does seem like Schiit has improved the usability of the knob at low volumes as they've said, and low gain will probably work for most people with IEMs, unless they're especially sensitive or you prefer very low volumes.



Apologies if you've already stated, but you can you say where you have the volume when listening with the Magni 3 to HD6XX? Thanks.


----------



## MorrisVentus

Anyone had chance to compare it to Magni 2 uber?


----------



## HipHopScribe (Sep 24, 2017)

RickB said:


> Apologies if you've already stated, but you can you say where you have the volume when listening with the Magni 3 to HD6XX? Thanks.



About 11-3 o'clock on low gain, 8-11 o'clock on high gain

EDIT: updated


----------



## SomeTechNoob

That's a huge difference considering I can't pass 9 o'clock on Magni 2.

Does the Modi Multibit have a 1.5v line out or is it a full 2v?  That might be the difference.


----------



## Kgtree

Modi Multibit is 2v line out


----------



## RickB

SomeTechNoob said:


> That's a huge difference considering I can't pass 9 o'clock on Magni 2.
> 
> Does the Modi Multibit have a 1.5v line out or is it a full 2v?  That might be the difference.



The Modi Multibit is 2V.

I generally listen to HD650 on my Vali 2 with the volume at 9 o'clock (on low gain), so I'm wondering if the Magni 3 will be usable for me with the extra gain.


----------



## HipHopScribe (Sep 24, 2017)

Also keep in mind that volume can vary a lot with different music. With modern music in popular genres I'm definitely gonna be keeping the volume on the lower end (maybe even a bit lower than the lower end of what I listed above, now that I think about it) vs some older, pre-loudness wars stuff. My testing has mostly been with the latter


----------



## koover (Sep 24, 2017)

erics75 said:


> you'll definitely be below 9 on the dial, but should still be ok in general. i would say this though, the vali 2 to magni 3 is mostly a sidegrade, not an upgrade. just different flavors. if you want a lighter, clearer signature, then yes the m3 would be a nice fit. just dont expect a dramatic difference. the differences will be noticeable, but still subtle. that being said, on low gain you'll be fine with the m3 and nightowl.



Hey Eric, hope you're well.
So let me ask you, since I already own the Jot, would it be worth it to pick up the m3?  Is there enough difference to take the plunge? It's very inexpensive, but inexpensive or not, if it's basically a clone of the Jot there's no need throwing $ out the window. Interested in your thoughts man.....or anyone's


----------



## erics75

koover said:


> Hey Eric, hope you're well.
> So let me ask you, since I already own the Jot, would it be worth it to pick up the m3?  Is there enough difference to take the plunge? It's very inexpensive, but inexpensive or not, if it's basically a clone of the Jot there's no need throwing $ out the window. Interested in your thoughts man.....or anyone's


Hey! All is well, busy busy busy with the little ones as usual. Hope you are doing Good as well!

Honestly they're quite similar sounding, so I'd say don't spend the $. If you're looking for an alternative amp with a different sonic flavor, try a different amp like the vali 2 or the massdrop cavalli liquid carbon xx. 

When comparing the jot to the m3, I really couldn't hear much of a difference. The biggest differences I heard was the bass and treble on the jot was a touch better extended and detailed. The difference was subtle, not glaring. Its amazing how close the m3 gets to the jot, but I still think the jot is ever so slightly better sounding. 

I only picked the m3 up because I want to swap out it for my vali 2 at work. I got bored with the vali and wanted a solid state amp in its place. If I had the space at work for the jot that would be my first choice as I think it's my best sounding amp.


----------



## koover

erics75 said:


> Hey! All is well, busy busy busy with the little ones as usual. Hope you are doing Good as well!
> 
> Honestly they're quite similar sounding, so I'd say don't spend the $. If you're looking for an alternative amp with a different sonic flavor, try a different amp like the vali 2 or the massdrop cavalli liquid carbon xx.
> 
> ...



Cool. Thank you for letting me save a bill. I swear anytime you buy something, there's always something else that comes out "almost" as good, a great deal less then the amount you paid for it. This is something I've learned quickly in this hobby.
Take care!


----------



## Leo888

Hi everyone, have anyone had a run with the line out to active speakers? Would really appreciate some feedbacks on how well it works out. Thanks in advance.


----------



## AudioBear (Sep 24, 2017)

Yes, I have used the Magni 3 as a pre-amp (volume control) to my Airmotiv 4 desktop speakers.  They sound the same.  I didn't do any active listening or analysis but I do recall that the I I didn't have to crank the volume way up (don't remember the setting.  I don't think Magni 3 will have any problem driving amps nor should it.

Afterthought: for twice the price of a passive switch and volume control (Sys) Schiit is supplying a quality amp. Even the damn wall wart is impressively heavy and large.


----------



## JoeKickass

erics75 said:


> When comparing the jot to the m3, I really couldn't hear much of a difference. The biggest differences I heard was the bass and treble on the jot was a touch better extended and detailed. The difference was subtle, not glaring. Its amazing how close the m3 gets to the jot, but I still think the jot is ever so slightly better sounding.


That's really awesome, I have the Jot and it's a serious amp. People in the Jotunheim thread compare it favorably to amps costing $1,000's!

To hear the Magni 3 is 90% a Jot for 1/4 of the price means this little amp is going to be a _revolution!_


----------



## Leo888

Hi AudioBear, thanks for the info. In your opinion, was there any difference from HO to LO? Most likely using the magni 3 50/50 from both output if i ended getting it. Thanks again.


----------



## AudioBear

Will test tomorrow.  I only used low.


----------



## Leo888

AudioBear said:


> Will test tomorrow.  I only used low.



Thanks for the time to try out AudioBear, appreciate it. Just to verify about the ealier post, i meant to say Headphone Out and Line Out incase i put it wrongly across.


----------



## Tuneslover

AudioBear said:


> @ToddAr1
> 
> Thanks for the impressions of Magni 3.  It almost sounds like it's a toss-up with the Jot which is quite amazing at $99.  If we put a pair of headphones on your head and turned on Led Zepelin or Don Quixote could you tell us which of the two were playing?



This is what I like about Schiit, good quality and excellent sound at a fair price.  Their entry level products are exceptionally good and are continually being improved so much so that they compete with their mid tier products.  Excellent.


----------



## Tuneslover (Sep 25, 2017)

koover said:


> Hey Eric, hope you're well.
> So let me ask you, since I already own the Jot, would it be worth it to pick up the m3?  Is there enough difference to take the plunge? It's very inexpensive, but inexpensive or not, if it's basically a clone of the Jot there's no need throwing $ out the window. Interested in your thoughts man.....or anyone's



When I got into Schiit gear I started with the entry level stuff to hear what it sounds like.  I really liked their products and upgraded as they upgraded their entry level stuff and simply sold the "outdated" gear.  Over the past couple of years I decided to move more into their (and other companies stuff) mid tier equipment but instead of selling off the previous generation stuff I began to create additional listening stations throughout the house.  Maybe a little crazy but hey I'm enjoying it.  Although I don't need another amp (I already have 4, each with their own listening setup), it's so tempting to jump at the Magni 3 because it appears to be so much better than the original Magni and the Magni 2U (both of which I used to own) at an extremely good price.

So if you're considering an additional listening setup I would say go for it.  $99 for an audio product this good is pretty hard to pass up on.  However myself, I need another DAC.  I love the Mimby and am eyeing on purchasing another one but I'm going to wait for a bit to see if there are any updates on it's horizon.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Tuneslover said:


> This is what I like about Schiit, good quality and excellent sound at a fair price.  Their entry level products are exceptionally good and are continually being improved so much so that they compete with their mid tier products.  Excellent.



Agree. While other companies aim for a better TOTL amp/DAC, schiit meets the need for all levels.


----------



## TheGame21x

Welp, I bought one. It'll be slotting into my system where my Element used to be, which I'm replacing because it's too sensitive to interference from my wi-fi router. Excited to hear this little guy. It'll be the third piece of Schiit in my setup, right alongside my Modi Multibit and Vali 2.


----------



## McTeags

So right now I'm rocking a Mimby -> Jot -> HD6XX (balanced) or MrSpeakers Aeon (SE). I've started using the Aeon much more often than the HD6XX. I personally think it's a much more enjoyable headphone to listen to on lower volume levels. I haven't been getting as much value out of the balanced output of the Jot as I had originally thought. I was considering selling my Jot to pick up a Magni 3, getting some cash back and going back to listening strictly to single-ended. I've read some of the impressions so far that people think that the Jot is a superior amp but it's a close call between the two. Does this make sense or do you think it would be a decision I regret making afterwards?


----------



## Mr Rick

McTeags said:


> So right now I'm rocking a Mimby -> Jot -> HD6XX (balanced) or MrSpeakers Aeon (SE). I've started using the Aeon much more often than the HD6XX. I personally think it's a much more enjoyable headphone to listen to on lower volume levels. I haven't been getting as much value out of the balanced output of the Jot as I had originally thought. I was considering selling my Jot to pick up a Magni 3, getting some cash back and going back to listening strictly to single-ended. I've read some of the impressions so far that people think that the Jot is a superior amp but it's a close call between the two. Does this make sense or do you think it would be a decision I regret making afterwards?



No decision is irreversible. Personally, I would not give up the Jot's  balanced capabilities.


----------



## ToddAr1

McTeags said:


> I was considering selling my Jot to pick up a Magni 3, getting some cash back and going back to listening strictly to single-ended. I've read some of the impressions so far that people think that the Jot is a superior amp but it's a close call between the two. Does this make sense or do you think it would be a decision I regret making afterwards?




I use single ended outputs only, and the Magni is insane value for the money, but I would never think about selling my Jotunheim and keeping just the Magni.  The Jotunheim sounds better and does more.


----------



## hpnut

Any thoughts / impressions on using this with an AKG K712? I wonder if this can better my (portable) Xduoo XD05 which I'm very impressed with. The Magni has much more power but will it be a noticable difference on the same volume levels? I keep reading the AKG needs a lot of current..?


----------



## JoeKickass

The Magni 3 is no question the smart buy to save money.

The Jot is more refined: no wall wart power supply, front panel switches, huge volume pot, and balanced out has twice the power of the Magni 3, but it's also *4x* the price!



McTeags said:


> So right now I'm rocking a Mimby -> Jot -> HD6XX (balanced) or MrSpeakers Aeon (SE). I've started using the Aeon much more often than the HD6XX. I personally think it's a much more enjoyable headphone to listen to on lower volume levels. I haven't been getting as much value out of the balanced output of the Jot as I had originally thought.



The answer to this problem is to get a balanced cable for the Aeon!


----------



## Jimster480

JoeKickass said:


> That's really awesome, I have the Jot and it's a serious amp. People in the Jotunheim thread compare it favorably to amps costing $1,000's!
> 
> To hear the Magni 3 is 90% a Jot for 1/4 of the price means this little amp is going to be a _revolution!_


I'm sure the Jot does compare, it has balanced after all.
My experience with balanced has been quite favorable so far even though I am not using balanced cables. Just the DAC's themselves sound better in balanced configurations.


----------



## AudioBear (Sep 25, 2017)

Leo888 said:


> Thanks for the time to try out AudioBear, appreciate it. Just to verify about the ealier post, i meant to say Headphone Out and Line Out incase i put it wrongly across.



I understood what you asked (at least I think I did).  I did a quick and dirty comparison of the Low and High gain settings.  They sound the same on both my HD800S (hi vs low) and my Emotive Airmotiv 4 powered desktop monitors.  And both sound amazingly good for $99 (or any higher price in most cases).

Understand that volume control knob position means very little unless you are testing comparatively and measure the output with a meter.  If you want to compare one headphone to another and one needs a setting of 9 o'clock while the other requires 10:30 for the same apparent volume, it's pretty clear one can is more efficient than the other.  Since the volume knob is not linear one can't use the ratio of those two numbers to calculate anything.  Since I didn't measure actual acoustic levels take what I say with a grain of salt. [edit: I guess I should specify that I set all digital volume controls in the chain to 100%]

That said, as it happens the HD800s need a range of 9 to about 10 to at very most.  It depends on the source music and my mood.  By coincidence, when I unplug the headphones so that signal is routed by the Magni 3 directly to my monitors, I hear almost exactly the same level.  The monitors might be a touch louder.   So driving powered speakers thru the pre-outs requires very little power.  Not surprising.  What surprised me is how low the volume setting was for the HD800S.  One way to say this is that they are pretty efficient, another way to say it is that the Magni 3 is very powerful.  When I switched to the HI gain output a setting of 7-8 o'clock was more than adequate and small adjustments made big changes.  The same was observed with the pre-outs driving the powered monitors.  I am going to leave the Magni 3 on low gain.

BTW, many say the HD800S is very picky about amps.  I don't know one way or another about that because I like them and I have always had amps that are supposed to be good with them.  Suffice it to say, for me at least, the Magni 3 is a great pairing for the HD800S.  Predictably, others will feel differently.  That's just the way it is...

I hope that answers your question @Leo888


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

End up buying it. Can't resist the temptation


----------



## AudioBear

JoeKickass said:


> The Magni 3 is no question the smart buy to save money.
> 
> The Jot is more refined: no wall wart power supply, front panel switches, huge volume pot, and balanced out has twice the power of the Magni 3, but it's also *4x* the price!
> 
> ...


 
@JoeKickass makes me chuckle.  That's a cute solution for getting value out of the balanced connection.  It would work but it might or might not sound any different.  As well you know that depends on a whole lot of variables.  In many cases it shouldn't sound any different; never mind that to many listeners it does.  If @McTeags takes your advice and doesn't hear a difference at least he can feel good about using that balanced circuitry.  Truth be told, I really like XLR connectors a whole lot better than RCA so I often use balanced just for the connector.  They just work better.


----------



## JoeKickass

AudioBear said:


> @JoeKickassIt would work but it might or might not sound any different... at least he can feel good about using that balanced circuitry.  Truth be told, I really like XLR connectors a whole lot better than RCA so I often use balanced just for the connector.  They just work better.



I agree I can't hear the difference (other than volume) but for me it's enough to know it's that tiny bit better signal.
(And the connectors are pretty bad-ass!)

I only have the HD 600 and I thought they were good enough to warrant balanced cables, I know if I had the Aeon they would be getting the premium treatment!


----------



## Mightygrey

almarti said:


> Now I am using Mimby > Marantz Integrated Amp > Speakers, as headphone output at Marantz is not what I want to connect my Ether Flows
> My question: Mimby > Magni 3 > Marantz Integrated Amp > Speakers is a safe setup?
> I want to connect the Ether Flows to Magni 3 and when not maintain current configuration to use speakers.
> Is this possible; I understood Magni 3 connect RCA output when headphones are not connected and connect RCA when cans are not connected, correct?
> If so, which volume level should I fix when using through integrated amp?


Max volume, just make sure you have your cans Unplugged.


----------



## erics75

McTeags said:


> So right now I'm rocking a Mimby -> Jot -> HD6XX (balanced) or MrSpeakers Aeon (SE). I've started using the Aeon much more often than the HD6XX. I personally think it's a much more enjoyable headphone to listen to on lower volume levels. I haven't been getting as much value out of the balanced output of the Jot as I had originally thought. I was considering selling my Jot to pick up a Magni 3, getting some cash back and going back to listening strictly to single-ended. I've read some of the impressions so far that people think that the Jot is a superior amp but it's a close call between the two. Does this make sense or do you think it would be a decision I regret making afterwards?


as someone else stated, get a balanced cable for the aeon! 

seriously though, the jot is pretty incredible even SE. believe me i'd love to swap the jot for the m3 completely, given the m3's smaller size, but i'd miss the jot immediately. even when comparing SE jot to m3, i still prefer the jot by a hair. it's slightly clearer and has a bit more extension on both ends. not sure if it's as accurate, but it's fun to listen to! if you're really curious, for only $99 you could add the m3, and just live with both for a few months to really get used to both of them. then you'd be in a much better place to decide which to keep. worst case, you keep the jot, and either sell the m3 or set it up in another room. if my kids weren't little (meaning insane and destructive!!!!), i'd have a small listening area in most rooms.


----------



## erics75

my friend brought his asgard 2 over for some comparisons to the m3 (and jotunheim) this weekend. 

not going to go into a lot of detail, but the m3 sounds much like the a2. when going back and forth, the only noticeable difference was the a2 was slightly, and i mean SLIGHTLY hazier overall. but all in all the a2 and m3 sound very much alike. the jot was the clearer, more dynamic sounding of the 3. whatever that pivot point circuit is in the jot, it's really nice sounding. 

what really stood out to me though was how good the a2 has held up over time. it's an old amp now in schiit's catalog, but it's still really good sounding. it used to be my go to amp for the longest time, until the jot dethroned it. hearing it again this weekend reaffirmed my love for it. 

that being said, the m3 to my ears is the better amp. my friend brought his t1 (600ohm), alpha prime (power hungry planar), and his hd800. the m3 drove them all just fine. the set i thought would challenge it the most would be the alpha prime. that thing is a power pig, imo. but the m3 had plenty of headroom in high gain. and the prime sounded sublime on it. bass was fast, hit hard, and had loads of texture and detail. when the prime isnt fed enough, the bass bloats. no bloat with the m3. not owning the t1 or hd800, i cant comment on synergy with the m3. all i can say is i enjoyed them both on the m3. i also preferred them balanced on the jot, even if the treble of the hd800 was a bit more pronounced vs the m3. 

the m3 is really an incredible amp given the price, it's a no brainer. now imagine a modi 3 multibit only for $99..... that stack would rule the midfi market.


----------



## Leo888

@AudioBear  Thanks for the feedback and the time taken to gather them. Certainly helps to make up my mind. Cheers.


----------



## Jimster480

erics75 said:


> my friend brought his asgard 2 over for some comparisons to the m3 (and jotunheim) this weekend.
> 
> not going to go into a lot of detail, but the m3 sounds much like the a2. when going back and forth, the only noticeable difference was the a2 was slightly, and i mean SLIGHTLY hazier overall. but all in all the a2 and m3 sound very much alike. the jot was the clearer, more dynamic sounding of the 3. whatever that pivot point circuit is in the jot, it's really nice sounding.
> 
> ...


The Modi Multibit is just a Modi 1 not a Modi 2.
Notice its Modi 2 and Modi Multibit 

So you mean a Modi 2 Multibit xD

I'm just waiting for Schiit to implement XMOS in their DACs


----------



## MementoMori99 (Sep 25, 2017)

erics75 said:


> my friend brought his asgard 2 over for some comparisons to the m3 (and jotunheim) this weekend.
> 
> not going to go into a lot of detail, but the m3 sounds much like the a2. when going back and forth, the only noticeable difference was the a2 was slightly, and i mean SLIGHTLY hazier overall. but all in all the a2 and m3 sound very much alike. the jot was the clearer, more dynamic sounding of the 3. whatever that pivot point circuit is in the jot, it's really nice sounding.
> 
> ...



Thank you.  I was seriously thinking about getting an A2.  With the M3 sounding more or less similar to the A2 at just under 40% of the cost, I am very tempted to get an M3.


----------



## nicoch46

MementoMori99 said:


> Thank you.  I was seriously thinking about getting an A2.  With the M3 sounding more or less similar to the A2 at just under 40% of the cost, I am very tempted to get an M3.


need some time... is impossible that sound the same single ended in class A vs AB push pull , damping factor and distortion are different 
btw the m3 is gems


----------



## Baldr

Jimster480 said:


> I'm just waiting for Schiit to implement XMOS in their DACs



If you had a phuc ton of current you don't know what to do with, XMOS would still end up being an anti-green power waster.


----------



## Matlab

Noob here. How does the Magni 2 compare to the Magni 3?  I just purchased the Magni 2 last week and Shiit will let me exchange it for the Magni 3.  I currently love my Shiit stack and wondering if I should exchange it.  I am driving the HD700s and the Fidelo X2s.


----------



## JoeKickass

Matlab said:


> Noob here. How does the Magni 2 compare to the Magni 3?  I just purchased the Magni 2 last week and Shiit will let me exchange it for the Magni 3.  I currently love my Shiit stack and wondering if I should exchange it.  I am driving the HD700s and the Fidelo X2s.



Give one last critical listen to the Magni 2 and then exchange it ASAP, by all indications you will hear a big improvement with the Magni 3!


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser (Sep 26, 2017)

Hey the Magni 2 is $59 on amazon!!!

For driving the *HD650*, would there be a real difference between the Magni 2 and the Magni 3??
I know the Magni 3 is way more powerful, has more ports and a nicer build but realistically...   Magni 2 for $59 or Magni 3 $99

If the Magni 3 is better even by a small bit I don't mind spending $99.


----------



## MorrisVentus

16 Bit Bowser said:


> Hey the Magni 2 is $59 on amazon!!!
> 
> For driving the *HD650*, would there be a real difference between the Magni 2 and the Magni 3??
> I know the Magni 3 is way more powerful, has more ports and a nicer build but realistically...   Magni 2 for $59 or Magni 3 $99



I think 30+shipping would be a good investment, in case you may regret about it within a half a year. Magni 3 is just a better amp. At max, it is 5 or 6 hours of work at minimum wage, right?


----------



## misooooo

16 Bit Bowser said:


> Hey the Magni 2 is $59 on amazon!!!
> 
> For driving the *HD650*, would there be a real difference between the Magni 2 and the Magni 3??
> I know the Magni 3 is way more powerful, has more ports and a nicer build but realistically...   Magni 2 for $59 or Magni 3 $99
> ...


Is it still? I thought they sold out a week ago.

Either way I would spend a little extra for the Magni 3.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

MorrisVentus said:


> I think 30+shipping would be a good investment, in case you may regret about it within a half a year. Magni 3 is just a better amp. At max, it is 5 or 6 hours of work at minimum wage, right?






misooooo said:


> Is it still? I thought they sold out a week ago.
> 
> Either way I would spend a little extra for the Magni 3.




I think I have my decision made then... MAGNI 3.  

Thanks guys! It was really helpful.


----------



## alpovs

MorrisVentus said:


> At max, it is 5 or 6 hours of work at minimum wage, right?


No, you are forgetting about taxes


----------



## MorrisVentus

alpovs said:


> No, you are forgetting about taxes



Damn. 1 day shift then!


----------



## XERO1 (Sep 26, 2017)

16 Bit Bowser said:


> Hey the Magni 2 is $59 on amazon!!!
> 
> For driving the *HD650*, would there be a real difference between the Magni 2 and the Magni 3??
> I know the Magni 3 is way more powerful, has more ports and a nicer build but realistically...   Magni 2 for $59 or Magni 3 $99
> ...



I have both the Jot and the Magni 2U, and there is a pretty big difference in SQ between them, with the Jot being better in every way.

The Jot creates a huge soundstage and sounds crystal clear without any noticeable distortion, while the Magni 2U sounds harsher and more closed-in when directly compared to the Jot.

And if the initial impressions of the Magni 3 are accurate, it seems like the M3 is significantly closer in SQ to the Jot, which would make it an incredible value and a no-brainer for anyone that's in the market for an inexpensive killer little amp.

I'll be getting an M3 in the next week or so, and I'll have more so say about it when I can directly compare all three of them together.


----------



## Jimster480

Baldr said:


> If you had a phuc ton of current you don't know what to do with, XMOS would still end up being an anti-green power waster.


I'm not sure what you are getting at.... My xUSB uses 500ma for the XMOS interface + outputs. 
The SMSL M8A can run on USB power. 
Shanling has a XMOS portable dac as well. 
Its very efficient in terms of power.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

XERO1 said:


> I have both the Jot and the Magni 2U, and there is a pretty big difference in SQ between them, with the Jot being better in every way.
> 
> The Jot creates a huge soundstage and sounds crystal clear without any noticeable distortion, while the Magni 2U sounds harsher and more closed-in when directly compared to the Jot.
> 
> ...





Thanks! Great to hear from someone with direct experience with the Magni 2U and Jot.  
I really don't want a harsh sound in any way, so I will stay away from the Magni 2 series. 

I will be ordering the Magni 3 soon!


----------



## McTeags

Thanks for your help guys! I made sure to give everyone who gave me advice a like. I'll look into getting an XLR cable for my Aeon and will keep the Magni 3 in mind for another listening station in the future. Maybe the office.


----------



## AudioBear

My crystal ball says that will not change the sound but you will believe it does.  You might want to read this first if for no other reason than it's an opposing point of view.  Most here will not agree but it's worth knowing both side of the story.  

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better


----------



## Matt*S.

I have just now received my Magni 3...Hooked it up and have had it on while I work.  This thing is super impressive, especially when you consider it's cost.  For reference, I have a LD MkIII and a Meir Corda Aria for comparison.  I am certainly enjoying the sound, haven't had it long enough to give a proper review.  However the feedback here is all true, it really is revealing without being shrill, warm without being overly so.  If you are on the fence, I'd argue that there isn't a better audio item you could spend your $100 on.


----------



## Jimster480

AudioBear said:


> My crystal ball says that will not change the sound but you will believe it does.  You might want to read this first if for no other reason than it's an opposing point of view.  Most here will not agree but it's worth knowing both side of the story.
> 
> https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better



I totally agree here, XLR is mostly for power purposes. 
The reason you think it sounds better is due to the increased volume.


----------



## a7xdeity

I've had the magni since friday and have had ample listening time with my focal elears and LCD-2's ... IT is definitely a good amp for 99$ .. Unfortunately their are a few things that i've noticed but I think they might just be related to my headphones that i've been testing with . The elears sound great but i feel there is like a "veil" over vocals. I can't put my finger on it.. The same with my LCD-2's. I had tested with my jotunheim side by side balanced ( I don't think it made it any sq difference ) and the magni


----------



## Dave01236

Hey guys, I'm currently using the HD 800 on the valhalla 2 + modi 2 multibit, and I'd like to know if the Magni 3 could be a good match for my headphones? I also plan on buying the LCD 2.2 in a near future. Can the magni power/drive both pairs of headphones efficiently? Which sound signature would I get on both pairs?


----------



## yangian

Matt*S. said:


> I have just now received my Magni 3...Hooked it up and have had it on while I work.  This thing is super impressive, especially when you consider it's cost.  For reference, I have a LD MkIII and a Meir Corda Aria for comparison.  I am certainly enjoying the sound, haven't had it long enough to give a proper review.  However the feedback here is all true, it really is revealing without being shrill, warm without being overly so.  If you are on the fence, I'd argue that there isn't a better audio item you could spend your $100 on.



How about the soundstage of M3 compared to LD3? Thanks


----------



## AudioBear

Dave01236 said:


> Hey guys, I'm currently using the HD 800 on the valhalla 2 + modi 2 multibit, and I'd like to know if the Magni 3 could be a good match for my headphones? I also plan on buying the LCD 2.2 in a near future. Can the magni power/drive both pairs of headphones efficiently? Which sound signature would I get on both pairs?



I drive my HD800S with Magni 3 at 9 o'clock on low gain.  Barely have to move the volume control off zero.  Magni has plenty of power.  If you read what Jason Stoddard said today in his forum there is a very subtle comment which is simply that Magni 3 and Vidar enjoy his new advanced circuitry and Jot does not.  Think about that.  Magni 3 has no sound signature as such.  It's neutral.  I don't hear it as warm as do some.  I think that's the absence of noise, grit and unpleasant sounds that comes across as warm.  It's smooth but detailed.  Whatever the 2 cans sound like is what you will hear, Magni 3 won't get in the way.  Some say the HD800S is abrasively bright.  I'm 75 so I don't hear sibilance anyway anymore.  Just love Magni 3 and the HD800S.  Don't own the LCD .2.2 so no comment there.


----------



## JoeKickass

AudioBear said:


> If you read what Jason Stoddard said today in his forum there is a very subtle comment which is simply that Magni 3 and Vidar enjoy his new advanced circuitry and Jot does not.



Actually I think the Magni 3 and Vidar are more like single-ended versions of the balanced current-feedback circuit in the Jot.

These seem to suggest they are related:


Jason Stoddard said:


> ...I had a slick gain stage drawn up—a single-ended, fully-complementary interpretation of Jotunheim’s current-feedback topology...





Jason Stoddard said:


> ...The gain stage worked. It measured really good. It sounded really, really good. It was, essentially, the single-ended Jotunheim that everyone would be asking for...


----------



## damstr

Just picked up my first amp/dac the Magni 3 and Modi 2 and paired them with my DT 990 Premium 250 Ohm. I was running off onboard audio before which had some amplification (advertised it could drive up to 150 Ohm headphones on the Asus Z270F) and at max volume it wasn't close to my limit.

With the Magni 3 on low gain my regular listening volume is around 2-3 o'clock position. Anything past that is too loud for me. Absolutely no need for high gain.


----------



## AudioBear (Sep 26, 2017)

JoeKickass said:


> Actually I think the Magni 3 and Vidar are more like single-ended versions of the balanced current-feedback circuit in the Jot.
> 
> These seem to suggest they are related:



Jason said earlier today:
"Basically, don't try to extend experience with one amp design to another amp design. Also, don't try to extend experience with one amp type to another amp type. Vidar, Magni 3, and Loki Mini all share a very similar gain stage. Vidar has to be biased with a constant-voltage Vbe multiplier and potentiometers, whereas Magni 3 and Loki Mini can get away with a couple of diodes and no pots. Why? Because one design has a much larger output stage, with very low-value emitter resistors. The others have smaller output stages, more closely thermally coupled to the diodes, and larger emitter resistors."

Maybe I am reading too much into the lack of a reference to Jot here but the impression it left is that Magi 3 has more in common with Vidar than Jot in some ways--at least in gain stages.  And yes, they are also related as you state.  Jot's circuit was hailed as being inherently balanced.  This seems not to be so for Magni 3.  Not the same animal?


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

damstr said:


> Just picked up my first amp/dac the Magni 3 and Modi 2 and paired them with my DT 990 Premium 250 Ohm. I was running off onboard audio before which had some amplification (advertised it could drive up to 150 Ohm headphones on the Asus Z270F) and at max volume it wasn't close to my limit.
> 
> With the Magni 3 on low gain my regular listening volume is around 2-3 o'clock position. Anything past that is too loud for me. Absolutely no need for high gain.




How does it sound to you, compared to your onboard sound? Any huge changes besides volume?
(Onboard sound is slowly getting better though)


----------



## damstr (Sep 26, 2017)

16 Bit Bowser said:


> How does it sound to you, compared to your onboard sound? Any huge changes besides volume?
> (Onboard sound is slowly getting better though)


I can say it breathed new life into them. I wouldn't say night and day difference but it was definitely noticeable and I'm very happy with everything. Wish I would've done this sooner!

I will say something that is amazing to me is if nothing is playing, I can turn the knob all the way to max volume and it's dead silent. For some reason that was really impressive to me. No noise or static at all.


----------



## Baldr

Jimster480 said:


> I'm not sure what you are getting at.... My xUSB uses 500ma for the XMOS interface + outputs.
> The SMSL M8A can run on USB power.
> Shanling has a XMOS portable dac as well.
> Its very efficient in terms of power.


This is definitely the wrong thread for USB discussion, but I will get to it on my own thread after my digital eq post later today.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Sep 26, 2017)

deleted


----------



## Jimster480

Baldr said:


> This is definitely the wrong thread for USB discussion, but I will get to it on my own thread after my digital eq post later today.


 you you are completely right. Let's not get this thread off topic. Please link me to where you would like to discuss it or send me a private message as to where the appropriate place is to discuss it.


----------



## Left Channel

Jimster480 said:


> you you are completely right. Let's not get this thread off topic. Please link me to where you would like to discuss it or send me a private message as to where the appropriate place is to discuss it.



I believe this will show up on Mike's Long Strange Trip thread soon.


----------



## Jimster480

An on topic question, is Magni 3 wired to use 3 pole connectors? My Fulla2 won't work properly with a 6.35->3.5mm adapter with my IEMs because they are 3 poll. I have to pull the headphones out of the port ever so slightly to get it to work.


----------



## Harry Manback

ColtMrFire said:


> The 800 does everything a little bit better, some things much better.
> 
> It is more refined, especially in the treble.  But treble all the way to the bass has better articulation of details and voice/instrument timbre.  It is closer to the actual source/real life sound of instruments.  You get a better idea of what the artist/recording mixer was going for.
> 
> ...




You were doing well until you brought in cables and clean ac power.  When you can pass an abx for such things, let me know.  I would genuinely lime to see that!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Jimster480 said:


> An on topic question, is Magni 3 wired to use 3 pole connectors? My Fulla2 won't work properly with a 6.35->3.5mm adapter with my IEMs because they are 3 poll. I have to pull the headphones out of the port ever so slightly to get it to work.


Sounds like an adapter issue, not a Fulla 2 issue.

I have a HOSA 3.5mm->6.35mm adapter which makes IEMs w/ mics sound like garbage, but the Sennheiser one that came with my HD 6XX works on both 2 pole and 3 poles that I've tried.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Harry Manback said:


> You were doing well until you brought in cables and clean ac power.  When you can pass an abx for such things, let me know.  I would genuinely lime to see that!



Not interested in converting objectivists (who are impossible to please anyway).  My own ears serve me well, thanks.


----------



## Jimster480

SomeTechNoob said:


> Sounds like an adapter issue, not a Fulla 2 issue.
> 
> I have a HOSA 3.5mm->6.35mm adapter which makes IEMs w/ mics sound like garbage, but the Sennheiser one that came with my HD 6XX works on both 2 pole and 3 poles that I've tried.


I tried 6 different adapters. It was the same result with each one. 

I even ordered new adapters (hence why I tried 6) and it doesn't work.

With my other devices (topping A30 & Topping Dx7) I do not have this issue with ANY of the adapters. Suggesting its a Fulla2 issue. 


ColtMrFire said:


> Not interested in converting objectivists (who are impossible to please anyway).  My own ears serve me well, thanks.


Clean AC power and cables are not real things for most people. This depends on where you live though, if you are up in the mountains in a city known for dirty power and brown-outs then yes it would make a difference. Same if you live in an area with really high EMF. 
Otherwise it won't matter, like here in Miami it does nothing.


----------



## ColtMrFire

Jimster480 said:


> Clean AC power and cables are not real things for most people. This depends on where you live though, if you are up in the mountains in a city known for dirty power and brown-outs then yes it would make a difference. Same if you live in an area with really high EMF.
> Otherwise it won't matter, like here in Miami it does nothing.



Yes, I already stated this in my original post.  If you have dirty power, a conditioner is a good idea.


----------



## Matt*S.

yangian said:


> How about the soundstage of M3 compared to LD3? Thanks



Personally, and this is my opinion, I think the soundstage is a bit narrower than my tube upgraded LD MKIII, however I believe the instruments have better separation. There is a detail that wasn’t there before.  So even though the stage as a whole is a bit narrower, the individual “voices” of the instruments and singers come through better. 

I hope this makes sense, I don’t write reviews ever, especially not in audiophile terms.


----------



## yangian

Matt*S. said:


> Personally, and this is my opinion, I think the soundstage is a bit narrower than my tube upgraded LD MKIII, however I believe the instruments have better separation. There is a detail that wasn’t there before.  So even though the stage as a whole is a bit narrower, the individual “voices” of the instruments and singers come through better.
> 
> I hope this makes sense, I don’t write reviews ever, especially not in audiophile terms.



Thank you! This is really what I expected based on my experience


----------



## Matt*S.

yangian said:


> Thank you! This is really what I expected based on my experience


I had a really hard time catching that with rock music, but it really shone through while listening to classical.  Once I understood what I was hearing, then I was able to pick it up while listening to my other music. 

All of my listening has been done streaming / playing tidal lossless files as a frame of reference.


----------



## Tuneslover

damstr said:


> I can say it breathed new life into them. I wouldn't say night and day difference but it was definitely noticeable and I'm very happy with everything. Wish I would've done this sooner!
> 
> I will say something that is amazing to me is if nothing is playing, I can turn the knob all the way to max volume and it's dead silent. For some reason that was really impressive to me. No noise or static at all.



I just tried that with my Jotunheim.  On high gain using balanced there was total silence until about the 4 o'clock position when I could hear a very very faint amount of hiss.  Single ended the hiss detected was at 3 o'clock position and more noticeable than balanced.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

I know this might be overkill; but has anyone tried the magni 3 with yggy?


----------



## yangian

Matt*S. said:


> I had a really hard time catching that with rock music, but it really shone through while listening to classical.  Once I understood what I was hearing, then I was able to pick it up while listening to my other music.
> 
> All of my listening has been done streaming / playing tidal lossless files as a frame of reference.



I only listen to classical. So M3 is great for classical, right?
Thank you!


----------



## erics75

Jimster480 said:


> An on topic question, is Magni 3 wired to use 3 pole connectors? My Fulla2 won't work properly with a 6.35->3.5mm adapter with my IEMs because they are 3 poll. I have to pull the headphones out of the port ever so slightly to get it to work.


Sounds like you have trrs terminations on the headphones. You'll need a trrs to trs adapter. Let me try to find a link. My first headphone with a trrs termination gave me fits! Anytime I used my 6.3mm adapters it cut in and out. Finally someone here enlightened me to the fact that my headphones had trrs, not trs termination.


----------



## erics75

Jimster480 said:


> An on topic question, is Magni 3 wired to use 3 pole connectors? My Fulla2 won't work properly with a 6.35->3.5mm adapter with my IEMs because they are 3 poll. I have to pull the headphones out of the port ever so slightly to get it to work.


https://www.amazon.com/YCS-Smartpho...506481788&sr=8-4&keywords=trrs+to+trs+adapter

Something like that should work. Assuming of course your headphones terminate in a 4 pole trrs end


----------



## Jimster480

erics75 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/YCS-Smartpho...506481788&sr=8-4&keywords=trrs+to+trs+adapter
> 
> Something like that should work. Assuming of course your headphones terminate in a 4 pole trrs end


 I'll check it I'll check it out. But I have three pole ends from what I have seen.

 like I said like I said it has not been a problem with another amp


----------



## erics75

Jimster480 said:


> I'll check it I'll check it out. But I have three pole ends from what I have seen.
> 
> like I said like I said it has not been a problem with another amp


My bad I thought you had a four pole termination. 12 hours staring at spreadsheets = brain dead Eric....


----------



## DavidA

Dave01236 said:


> Hey guys, I'm currently using the HD 800 on the valhalla 2 + modi 2 multibit, and I'd like to know if the Magni 3 could be a good match for my headphones? I also plan on buying the LCD 2.2 in a near future. Can the magni power/drive both pairs of headphones efficiently? Which sound signature would I get on both pairs?


The Magni3 will drive both the HD800 and LCD-2.2 efficiently.  As for the sound signature you will get this is something only you can evaluate since we all hear differently.  FWIW I've always preferred the HD800 with a tube amp but there are a few exceptions like the Hugo/Hugo2, Liquid Gold, Darkstar and HA-501 and haven't yet heard the Magni3 so i can't comment on how it will sound paired with the HD800.  For the LCD-2 that I have my preference is either the headphone output of my UD-301 or Project Ember over the Asgard2 and Lyr2 that I also have but since many say the Magni3 is better than the Asgard2 it might be a good pairing with a LCD-2.


----------



## commtrd

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I know this might be overkill; but has anyone tried the magni 3 with yggy?


Well I have the exact same question and really it does not seem so strange if one stops to think about it some. Thinking VERY strongly about going ahead with an Yggy and might start with a magni3 to pair with my LCDi4. Might be the cat's meow. A nice transparent clean amp (cheap price don't hurt either) that adds no color or other signature to amend the DAC output sounds intriguing to say the least... Of course eventually would be paired up with a Ragnarok for the end-game. IMHO it really is all about the DAC. All the amp has to do is amplify cleanly and transparently and help preserve the ultra-dark blackness when appropriate to do so. Magni3 paired with Yggy? Why the heck not?!? Anyone who can do so please provide some review por favor...


----------



## qqqqdd123

DavidA said:


> The Magni3 will drive both the HD800 and LCD-2.2 efficiently.  As for the sound signature you will get this is something only you can evaluate since we all hear differently.  FWIW I've always preferred the HD800 with a tube amp but there are a few exceptions like the Hugo/Hugo2, Liquid Gold, Darkstar and HA-501 and haven't yet heard the Magni3 so i can't comment on how it will sound paired with the HD800.  For the LCD-2 that I have my preference is either the headphone output of my UD-301 or Project Ember over the Asgard2 and Lyr2 that I also have but since many say the Magni3 is better than the Asgard2 it might be a good pairing with a LCD-2.



Really curious how HD800s pair with Magni 3. As I know, Joh is not a good one since it is too bright for a bright HD800. But I really like the neutral and high res sound of SS amp.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

commtrd said:


> Well I have the exact same question and really it does not seem so strange if one stops to think about it some. Thinking VERY strongly about going ahead with an Yggy and might start with a magni3 to pair with my LCDi4. Might be the cat's meow. A nice transparent clean amp (cheap price don't hurt either) that adds no color or other signature to amend the DAC output sounds intriguing to say the least... Of course eventually would be paired up with a Ragnarok for the end-game. IMHO it really is all about the DAC. All the amp has to do is amplify cleanly and transparently and help preserve the ultra-dark blackness when appropriate to do so. Magni3 paired with Yggy? Why the heck not?!? Anyone who can do so please provide some review por favor...



I thought about it too. My magni 3 will arrive this Friday but I don't have yggy to pair with. I'll pair it with spring KTE instead. Never know how it turns out but I can only imagine great things.


----------



## Jimster480

erics75 said:


> My bad I thought you had a four pole termination. 12 hours staring at spreadsheets = brain dead Eric....


No worries  
This is why I wanted someone to check out magni 3 for me with a standard adapter. Since I am thinking about getting one


----------



## alphanumerix1

MorrisVentus said:


> I think 30+shipping would be a good investment, in case you may regret about it within a half a year. Magni 3 is just a better amp. At max, it is 5 or 6 hours of work at minimum wage, right?



I'm guessing its a no brainer to get a magni3 to upgrade from an essence stx with a hd600 Thoughts?


----------



## MorrisVentus

alphanumerix1 said:


> I'm guessing its a no brainer to get a magni3 to upgrade from an essence stx with a hd600 Thoughts?



I am no expert. I've only used Schiit Uber stacks.

But currently, most people do say Magni 3 is defnitely worth the price, and more.

I only answered his question for him trying to go for Magni 2 or uber. 

I already sold my stack, and waiting for Modi 3 to come out at this point.


----------



## Jimster480

alphanumerix1 said:


> I'm guessing its a no brainer to get a magni3 to upgrade from an essence stx with a hd600 Thoughts?


 that card should have that card should have plenty of power to drive your hd600. I don't think buying this would make a difference in terms of sound quality.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Jimster480 said:


> that card should have that card should have plenty of power to drive your hd600. I don't think buying this would make a difference in terms of sound quality.



Oh it does. I assumed the h600 would scale with a better amp. As i understand its not just about loudness that determines quality. Please correct me if im wrong.


----------



## JoeKickass (Sep 27, 2017)

alphanumerix1 said:


> Oh it does. I assumed the h600 would scale with a better amp. As i understand its not just about loudness that determines quality. Please correct me if im wrong.


I have the HD 600 too, they are fantastic and very resolving, you will definitely be able to notice a difference!

I could hear a big improvement moving from the Magni 2U to the Jot, and the Magni 3 is supposed to be very close to the Jot, I say jump on the Magni 3 and don't look back!

Also check out a comparison of the frequency response flatness/extension, there is a big difference:
Xonar Essence STX:   10 Hz to   90 KHz (-3dB)
Magni 3:                      * 2 Hz*   to *900 kHz *(-3dB)


----------



## Jimster480

JoeKickass said:


> I have the HD 600 too, they are fantastic and very resolving, you will definitely be able to notice a difference!
> 
> I could hear a big improvement moving from the Magni 2U to the Jot, and the Magni 3 is supposed to be very close to the Jot, I say jump on the Magni 3 and don't look back!
> 
> ...



The frequency response is pretty pointless since no headphones are doing 2hz, also nothing is even hitting 50khz nevermind 900khz.

Additionally if the Xonar Amp provides enough power, I doubt there will be much difference using it with a Line-Out anyway as its the same audio output.


----------



## AudioBear

And it’s worth noting that human hearing is virtually nothing below 20Hz or above 16KHz.  We can feel deep bass, however.


----------



## JoeKickass (Sep 27, 2017)

It's just a point of comparison, representing the absolute capabilities of an amp, but you're right at this level it's like comparing a 200 mph car to a 205 mph car!


----------



## HipHopScribe

Jimster480 said:


> I'll check it I'll check it out. But I have three pole ends from what I have seen.
> 
> like I said like I said it has not been a problem with another amp



Are you sure you mean 3-pole? Which one of these does it look like:




Lots of IEMs have TRRS (on the right here, generally referred to as 4-pole) for smartphones to use a remote/mic, which could cause an issue with some adapters.

TRS (the middle above) is usually called 3-pole and is just the old standard 3.5mm headphone connector, which shouldn't have any issue unless you have a bad adapter


----------



## hikaru12

Can anyone compare the Magni 3 to the Magni 2 with the 400is? I noticed I was listening to them at 3 o clock with the Magni 2 at high gain. They felt pretty darn high to drive despite their low impedance. Curious to see if it wouldn't need as much effort to drive them loud.


----------



## nicoch46

the TRRS can be  A or  B the ground is swap sleeve and near ring


----------



## rids57

hikaru12 said:


> Can anyone compare the Magni 3 to the Magni 2 with the 400is? I noticed I was listening to them at 3 o clock with the Magni 2 at high gain. They felt pretty darn high to drive despite their low impedance. Curious to see if it wouldn't need as much effort to drive them loud.



My Magni 2 is LOUD at 11 o'clock on LOW gain with my HE400i's


----------



## hikaru12

rids57 said:


> My Magni 2 is LOUD at 11 o'clock on LOW gain with my HE400i's



The problem is they were sibilant at any volume levels because of the 6-7.5 peak so I did the cotton mod which tamed the treble quite a bit and tightened the bass up but as a result of adding more layers I've had to significantly increase the volume to listen to them loud. They don't need to be driven loud but they have an aggressive sound to them if they are which is great for metal.


----------



## DavidA

rids57 said:


> My Magni 2 is LOUD at 11 o'clock on LOW gain with my HE400i's





hikaru12 said:


> The problem is they were sibilant at any volume levels because of the 6-7.5 peak so I did the cotton mod which tamed the treble quite a bit and tightened the bass up but as a result of adding more layers I've had to significantly increase the volume to listen to them loud. They don't need to be driven loud but they have an aggressive sound to them if they are which is great for metal.


Both of you might want to get an app for your phone so you can get a rough estimate of volume levels, "Loud" means different things to everyone: to me loud would be 75dB to another it might be 85dB and to some its 105dB.  If your phone doesn't take an app buy a cheap SPL meter, they are not very expensive these days, basic ones are under $20 while more feature rich ones are $50-100.


----------



## hikaru12

DavidA said:


> Both of you might want to get an app for your phone so you can get a rough estimate of volume levels, "Loud" means different things to everyone: to me loud would be 75dB to another it might be 85dB and to some its 105dB.  If your phone doesn't take an app buy a cheap SPL meter, they are not very expensive these days, basic ones are under $20 while more feature rich ones are $50-100.



Good idea. I just tested mine and the lowest I listen is at 70db but usually am at 75-80DB.


----------



## AudioBear

hikaru12 said:


> Can anyone compare the Magni 3 to the Magni 2 with the 400is? I noticed I was listening to them at 3 o clock with the Magni 2 at high gain. They felt pretty darn high to drive despite their low impedance. Curious to see if it wouldn't need as much effort to drive them loud.



Impedence is not a measure of efficiency.  A low impedence transducer can use more power than a high impedence one if it’s less efficient.  The variable that counts is dB per watt or milliwatt.


----------



## hikaru12

AudioBear said:


> Impedence is not a measure of efficiency.  A low impedence transducer can use more power than a high impedence one if it’s less efficient.  The variable that counts is dB per watt or milliwatt.



The math says they're decently efficient as I've ran the numbers through several amp calculators (93db/mW) but my ears tell me different. I'm almost 3/4 of the way with the Magni 2 to get the 400is to loud listening levels of above 80db.


----------



## rids57

Surprising, Metallica's "Battery" measured 75db and that's plenty loud enough for me


----------



## Matt*S.

yangian said:


> I only listen to classical. So M3 is great for classical, right?
> Thank you!



The depth of sound that this little amp continues to produce is nothing short of amazing if you ask me.  As I listen to it, I am noticing more details open up, or at least draw me in.  I really can't get enough.


----------



## commtrd

Matt*S. said:


> The depth of sound that this little amp continues to produce is nothing short of amazing if you ask me.  As I listen to it, I am noticing more details open up, or at least draw me in.  I really can't get enough.


Cool! Just wish someone would run a M3 behind Yggdrasil. And report back critically.


----------



## gr8soundz

commtrd said:


> Cool! Just wish someone would run a M3 behind Yggdrasil. And report back critically.



As strange as it sounds, that would be the best way to test the M3's true capabilities by hooking it up to a TOTL DAC.


----------



## Astral Abyss

commtrd said:


> Cool! Just wish someone would run a M3 behind Yggdrasil. And report back critically.



I've got a Loki Mini and Magni 3 arriving tomorrow.  I might be tempted to hook the Magni up to Yggdrasil just to see what it can do.


----------



## majo123

I wish I could get one, missed out by less than a day! In stock in uk late Mon evening sold out 6am Tues morning when I went to buy , just had an email back that schiit can't ship anymore to the supplier until at least the 6th of oct and that's not guaranteed and would not receive until the end of the following week i.e the 16th ish and again no guarantees.....could be a long wait for uk supplys.


----------



## AudioBear

hikaru12 said:


> The math says they're decently efficient as I've ran the numbers through several amp calculators (93db/mW) but my ears tell me different. I'm almost 3/4 of the way with the Magni 2 to get the 400is to loud listening levels of above 80db.



That may say more about the quality of the data than your ears. Louder is louder no matter what the specs say.


----------



## RiflemanFirst (Sep 27, 2017)

I've been using my Magni 3 for a couple hours now. My initial impressions compared to the Vali 2 are that the Magni 3 is cleaner, livelier, and noticeably more powerful. Sounds great so far with my HD650s and TH-X00 Ebonies. Definitely a great value for $99 and it pairs well with the Mimby. Don't get me wrong, the Vali 2 is still a great amp for those who prefer to flavor the sound signature with tubes. I'm having a hard time deciding if I want to keep the Vali 2 though.


----------



## Jimster480

HipHopScribe said:


> Are you sure you mean 3-pole? Which one of these does it look like:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are right I have TRRS on the affected headphones.
But as I said it only poses a problem with the Fulla2 and nothing else that I own. 

Does anyone have problems with their Magni 3 with the same TRRS devices?


----------



## HipHopScribe

Jimster480 said:


> You are right I have TRRS on the affected headphones.
> But as I said it only poses a problem with the Fulla2 and nothing else that I own.
> 
> Does anyone have problems with their Magni 3 with the same TRRS devices?



My IEMs with TRRS don't work correctly with any of my 1/4" adapters on the Magni 3. The adapter on Amazon that was posted earlier should fix your problem though as it will convert them to plain TRS 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MV2PDCA/ref=asc_df_B00MV2PDCA5145894


----------



## Jimster480 (Sep 27, 2017)

HipHopScribe said:


> My IEMs with TRRS don't work correctly with any of my 1/4" adapters on the Magni 3. The adapter on Amazon that was posted earlier should fix your problem though as it will convert them to plain TRS
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MV2PDCA/ref=asc_df_B00MV2PDCA5145894


So it must have something to do with how Schiit wires their products.
As it doesn't happen on my Topping A30, JDS O2, Topping DX7, FiiO K1.

Edit: I have ordered the adapter just for the future (and for use with my Fulla2 if I decide to unbox it again).


----------



## Grado Diesel

MementoMori99 said:


> It is my opinion that for relatively smooth treble, the Vali 2, Asgard 2 and Lyr 2 are the best options for Schiit amps.  I own the Vali 2 because it suits my needs(power and preference for smooth treble) and has a price point of under $200.  I am curious as to whether the Magni 3 has smooth treble.



I can’t speak for the Magni 3 but I’ve A/B’d the Vali 2 with a Gold Lion and the Magni 2 Uber. I didn’t find an increase in treble at all with the 100% solid state Magni and if anything I found the soundstage to be wider. I also found details in the music to be a little bit clearer and more present with the Magni but not biting treble like one would assume. I’m hoping the Magni 3 is the same way. I’m getting ready to place an order.


----------



## commtrd

Astral Abyss said:


> I've got a Loki Mini and Magni 3 arriving tomorrow.  I might be tempted to hook the Magni up to Yggdrasil just to see what it can do.



Awesome! PLEASE DO SO and report back on your impressions. Would be much appreciated. I bet it's gonna sound a whole lot better than a lot of guys would suspect...   =)


----------



## Zbell

Just got my Magni 3 today and gave it a couple hours to warm up.  I'm upgrading from a Magni 2U (mostly because I need something for work), so I was able to compare them for about an hour tonight.  Before getting into the sound, I think the feel of the Magni 3's volume knob is much smoother than the 2U.  Honestly I didn't think I would really care about the feel of the knob, but it's a plus for sure.  

For reference, I was playing mostly Other Voices, by LCD Soundsystem and tested the amps using Senn HD600 and Fostex TH-X00 PH. My initial impression was that the depth of the soundstage sounded a little different and I found the Magni 3 to be bit more open/airy, and maybe a little more delicate (which I'm not sure how I feel about).  The second thing I noticed was that the bass was little sharper and less bloated on the Magni 3, especially when using the Fostex.  I can hear the strumming of the bass in the beginning of the song with a little more texture using the Magni 3.   The last thing I listened for was how bright the highs were.  Using this track around the 4:30 mark, I find the Magni 3 to definitely be a bit less strident when using the HD600s.  Take all this with a grain of salt as these were my initial impressions after only an hour and change of listening. It was also not a blind test, as I had the switch the RCA cables back and forth and I never discount the power of confirmation bias.

My final take is that this is a great buy for $99, especially considering I paid $149 for the 2U.  I'll try to update in the next few days after comparing them more thoroughly.


----------



## Astonish

hikaru12 said:


> Can anyone compare the Magni 3 to the Magni 2 with the 400is? I noticed I was listening to them at 3 o clock with the Magni 2 at high gain. They felt pretty darn high to drive despite their low impedance. Curious to see if it wouldn't need as much effort to drive them loud.



Seems like I have to go to around 3 or 4 also to get my m1060's nice and loud on low gain


----------



## FrostyP

I'm still very new to the audiophile world so you can take what I say with a grain of salt but I really like what I've gotten out of the Magni 3 so far, especially since it seems to have tamed the highs on headphones I've found to be a bit too sibilant (in my case the Audio-Technica ATH A1000z and the iSine 20). It also pairs well with the HD650 from what I've tried so far


----------



## geomaso44

Can anybody comment on channel (im)balance with very low pot positions, when powering high-sensitivity headphones?

_This was an issue for me with Vali 2 and to some extent even with Fulla 2 and Magni 2U. Or maybe I am too spoiled by relay-based volume control with perfect volume tracking?_


----------



## Tuneslover

geomaso44 said:


> Can anybody comment on channel (im)balance with very low pot positions, when powering high-sensitivity headphones?
> 
> _This was an issue for me with Vali 2 and to some extent even with Fulla 2 and Magni 2U. Or maybe I am too spoiled by relay-based volume control with perfect volume tracking?_



Yes I'm very interested in hearing someone's impressions pertaining channel imbalance at volume levels.


----------



## kendosperling

My magni 3 shows no audible imbalance at all. Even at very low volume in contrast to my vali 2 and fulla 2 which show minor imbalances.


----------



## Tuneslover

kendosperling said:


> My magni 3 shows no audible imbalance at all. Even at very low volume in contrast to my vali 2 and fulla 2 which show minor imbalances.



Thanks.


----------



## damstr (Sep 28, 2017)

Anyone try the Magni 3 out on the LCD-2/LCD-X/HD800S/DT1990? I will be upgrading to one of those four from my DT 990's.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

I'm planning to get the Magni 3 for mi LCD-X


----------



## Zbell

Tuneslover said:


> Yes I'm very interested in hearing someone's impressions pertaining channel imbalance at volume levels.


I did find some channel imbalance on low volumes while listening last night.  It happened when the volume knob was very close to 0, but I could only hear volume coming out of the right driver.  I don't have my Magni 3 with me right now, but I'll check later to see if it's more prevalent on the Magni 3 in comparison to the Magni 2U.


----------



## HipHopScribe

I also noticed some channel imbalance very low on the volume knob, probably only an issue if you're listening to IEMs at a very low volume. Not nearly as bad as Fulla 2


----------



## erics75

damstr said:


> Anyone try the Magni 3 out on the LCD-2/LCD-X/HD800S/DT1990? I will be upgrading to one of those four from my DT 990's.


i tried the regular hd800 on it and thought it was quite nice. i went back and forth with it and the jotunheim, on my friend's hd800, t1, and many of my headphones. i'll focus on the hd800. 

i thought the m3 did very well with the hd800. the m3 has more than enough power for the hd800. i tried low and high gain, and both were plenty. with low gain the volume knob was about 11ish. high gain maybe 7ish. didnt notice any sonic differences between the gains, just where the volume knob was on each. 

sonically, the m3 sounded really nice with the hd800. the m3 is a neutral amp with a very smooth top end, which paired well with the hd800's 6k frequency spike. compared to the jot, the m3 was a touch smoother and softer from about 4k on. i wouldnt call it veiled, it's not. but in direct comparison, it's just a softer presentation compared to the jot. treble on the jot/hd800 combo would occasionally get uncomfortable. i'd find myself tensing a bit while listening. my go to siblance track is junior walker's "shotgun". i have no idea what instrument it is, but there's a metalic clashing thing playing in the background, and it's BRIGHT. it's like clashing two metal rods together. it's harsh, metalic, and loud in the mix. the jot/hd800 combo was a bit too much for me, i lowered the volume. on the m3, i did not lower the volume. BUT, i still found it uncomfortable. just not as much as with the jot doing amp duties. 

mids didnt sound much different, m3 vs jot. the jot was clearer but a hair, and that was accross the whole frequency range. the 800 mids sounded sublime on the m3. 

bass was slightly different. the jot has a bit more bass slam, in comparison. the m3 is a touch more polite in it's bass presentation. my bass test tracks is anything from daft punk random access memories, or this little beauty: bea miller's "dracula". before you judge, the song itself...well it's teenage girl stuff, nuff said. but the triple bass blast in the mix is excellent bass test material. after 20 seconds or so into the track, there's a slamming triple bass blast you'll hear. the first bass hit is strong, textured, DEEP, and somewhat slow to decay (the mix, regardless of headphone). the 2nd hit comes a mere second or so after the first, and SHOULD sound much the same as the first. BUT...depending on the headphone/chain used, it can sound dramatically. lesser gear cannot recover from the first bass hit, and only register a soft cough of bass. you know your gear cant do deep fast bass if that's the case. the hd800 has very fast bass and recovers from the first bass hit just fine when the 2nd comes. with both the m3 and jot, that 2nd hit is just as impactful and resonant as the first. the only difference is the jot slams a hair harder. still impressive on either. ok third hit. lesser headphones are in chaos from the first two hits and barely register the third. a mild gasp is the norm haha. again, the hd800 is up to the task. the 3rd hits, and though softer (due to the mix, not the gear), it's still deep and impactful, with strong leading edges and nice soft decay. the m3 again has a hair less impact, and decay rolls off a hair earlier. all in all both amps with the hd800 handle the triple bass quite well. i didnt feel the m3 held the 800 back in any way in the bass department. i think the jot is just less neutral. 

so long story short on the bass side, the m3 is a hair more polite, with slightly less slam and weight. the 800 hit hard, fast, with plenty of detail with the 800. i didnt note any significant roll off issues

going back to the big picture, i did enjoy the m3/hd800 combo. past magni's were too harsh up top for the hd800 (to my ears). but the m3 remedies those past failings quite well. anytime the treble got hot on the hd800, it was the headphone/track's doing, not the amp. the m3 did not highlight or exacerbate the hd800's inherent brightness. it didnt mask it either though. that's why i feel the m3 is quite neutral and transparent. it just gets out of the way and lets you hear the other gear. i've owned it for a week now, listening to it 4-6 hours a day at work, and i still cant say it has any particular character. i wouldnt call it warm, cold, soft, harsh, etc etc etc. it just sounds good, without bringing any attention to itself. that's a win for me. and given it's character, i think it will pair well with a very large range of headphones. something i couldnt say about past magnis... 

a quick note on planars. though i dont own the lcd2, i do have an ether c. the m3 was great with it. plenty of power. like with the hd800, it just got out of the way and let me focus on the headphone/music. i could use low or high gain with the ether, and had plenty of headroom. all the headphones you list should work just fine on the m3.


----------



## AudioBear (Sep 28, 2017)

damstr said:


> Anyone try the Magni 3 out on the LCD-2/LCD-X/HD800S/DT1990? I will be upgrading to one of those four from my DT 990's.



I posted a few pages back that the Magni 3 drives the HD800S on low gain around 10 o'clock on the knob.  About the same for Oppo PM-3 and Momentum 2.  Magni 3 is controlled, neutral, and silent as in no noise at high gain with no signal.  I am very pleased with it and somewhat amazed at what Schiit has been able to do.  It may chase a couple of other amps out of the house.

Edit:  I pretty much agree with Erics75's take on the HD800s. Can't comment on the bass comparison with Jot because I don't have a Jot to compare. I take Magni 3s bass as very controlled and tight but impactful leaving nothing for this listener to desire.  I neglected to mention transparency and details: all there.


----------



## exdmd

Tuneslover said:


> Yes I'm very interested in hearing someone's impressions pertaining channel imbalance at volume levels.



The volume control on my new Magni 3 is much better than the original Magni it replaced. Using my Ultimate Ears UE-10 Pro IEMs I notice a slight imbalance to the right until I get the volume control up to 8 o'clock. The UE-10s are so sensitive I can only listen comfortably up to 8:30. I think I will have to get a set of line level attenuators like the Harrisons.

My other headphones at this time are the OPPO PM-3s. Not as sensitive as the UE-10s but the same imbalance to the right is noticed until volume is advanced to 8 o'clock. With gain switch set to low on the Magni 3 I can listen comfortably with volume all the way up to 9 to 10 o'clock.

Bottom line Schiit should in my opinion reduce the gain by 12 db more in the low gain switch position so the Magni 3 works better with sensitive IEMs


----------



## Jimster480

exdmd said:


> The volume control on my new Magni 3 is much better than the original Magni it replaced. Using my Ultimate Ears UE-10 Pro IEMs I notice a slight imbalance to the right until I get the volume control up to 8 o'clock. The UE-10s are so sensitive I can only listen comfortably up to 8:30. I think I will have to get a set of line level attenuators like the Harrisons.
> 
> My other headphones at this time are the OPPO PM-3s. Not as sensitive as the UE-10s but the same imbalance to the right is noticed until volume is advanced to 8 o'clock. With gain switch set to low on the Magni 3 I can listen comfortably with volume all the way up to 9 to 10 o'clock.
> 
> Bottom line Schiit should in my opinion reduce the gain by 12 db more in the low gain switch position so the Magni 3 works better with sensitive IEMs



There is the UE Buffer jack, it will do what you need. 
I have one and use it with my RP-HD10s and 1More quad drivers with certain amps.


----------



## Astonish (Sep 28, 2017)

How much can an amp effect soundstage? I'm coming from another entry/budget amp (the monoprice dac/amp combo) and the soundstage on the magni seems smaller and more intimate. Also has anyone noticed any change on vocals? To me vocals through the magni 3 definitely sound softer. I don't want to use the term veiled, because everyone has different definitions/interpretations of what veil is, but yea definitely softer sounding. I believe I saw someone else mention this

That said this thing gets loud when cranked up and it has very nice detail and transparency


----------



## AviadT (Sep 28, 2017)

Can someone that has the o2 amp and the Magni 3 make a comparison between them?
I'v joined the Massdrop's o2+SDAC drop and considering to cancel the purchase and buy the Magni 3 instead.
Is it worth paying extra 60$ for the M3 over the o2?


----------



## Jimster480

AviadT said:


> Can someone that has the o2 amp and the Magni 3 make a comparison between them?
> I'v joined the Massdrop's o2+SDAC drop and considering to cancel the purchase and buy the Magni 3 instead.
> Is it worth the extra 60$ over the o2?


The Magni 3 definitely has more power, but the o2 Amp will drive IEMs better. 
So it depends on what your goals are overall.

The o2+SDAC is just that though, its a DAC + Amp.
The Magni 3 is just an Amp.


----------



## AudioBear

Jimster480 said:


> The Magni 3 definitely has more power, but the o2 Amp will drive IEMs better.
> So it depends on what your goals are overall.
> 
> The o2+SDAC is just that though, its a DAC + Amp.
> The Magni 3 is just an Amp.



Can you elaborate on what "O2 Amp will drive IEMs better." means?  Not sure in what way that would be the case if it has more power.


----------



## Jimster480

AudioBear said:


> Can you elaborate on what "O2 Amp will drive IEMs better." means?  Not sure in what way that would be the case if it has more power.


Well "better" is subjective, but as some other people already noted. The huge amount of power available with Magni makes your volume control with sensitive headphones (especially sensitive IEMs) very limited. 

With the o2 it doesn't have anywhere near the power output, so you have alot more control over your volume knob. 

So it all depends on if you will be driving various headphones (especially power hungry ones) or if you will be driving primarily IEMs.


----------



## AudioBear

Agree, all our judgements are subjective.  But yours wasn't really.  It's a fact that a very powerful amp doesn't work well with a sensitive transducer as you stated.  There are of course easy corrections for that.  Looking back in the thread several have suggested adding some resistance will fix the problem.

I'm not a designer so I wouldn't have a clue where to set the low gain setting.  Less gain like the O2 would certainly remove the need to add correction but then people with less efficient transducers would ask for more gain.  Designer can't win and can't satisfy everyone.

My reason for responding to the original post has been clarified and it's an objective observation, but a curable one.  What isn't clear is which amp excels in other ways.  To me if the Magni 3 sounds better than the O2, then it's the right choice because a small adaptor can be used to cut the gain.  

I haven't heard the O2.  How does the sound stack up against a Magni 3?  Now that's going to be a tough question since the DAC will be different....


----------



## Jimster480

AudioBear said:


> Agree, all our judgements are subjective.  But yours wasn't really.  It's a fact that a very powerful amp doesn't work well with a sensitive transducer as you stated.  There are of course easy corrections for that.  Looking back in the thread several have suggested adding some resistance will fix the problem.
> 
> I'm not a designer so I wouldn't have a clue where to set the low gain setting.  Less gain like the O2 would certainly remove the need to add correction but then people with less efficient transducers would ask for more gain.  Designer can't win and can't satisfy everyone.
> 
> ...



If you want an Amp that does everything, the A30 actually does satisfy anything you would need.
With 1.5W/channel output in Hi Mode on the highest gain it can drive any headphones basically.
It also has a 0db gain mode and Lo output.
Having both 3.5mm and 6.35mm jacks its literally the most versatile Amp on the market today.
This is my main amp that I use all day every day basically. 

I have a Topping DX7 also (it has a an Amp built in) and a JDS Labs O2 and a Fulla2, but none of them are as versatile as the A30 which I can actually use with all my headphones.


----------



## AudioBear

Jimster480 said:


> If you want an Amp that does everything, the A30 actually does satisfy anything you would need.
> With 1.5W/channel output in Hi Mode on the highest gain it can drive any headphones basically.
> It also has a 0db gain mode and Lo output.
> Having both 3.5mm and 6.35mm jacks its literally the most versatile Amp on the market today.
> ...



You are wise beyond your years Grasshopper.  You talk of practical things which one can measure, feel and see.  Which of these sounds the best in your subjective opinion?  I have a hunch they are all pretty adequate solutions subjectively, but which, if any, makes you want to move, or the hair on your neck stand up? Which do you really like however practical or impractical it might be?


----------



## Jimster480

AudioBear said:


> You are wise beyond your years Grasshopper.  You talk of practical things which one can measure, feel and see.  Which of these sounds the best in your subjective opinion?  I have a hunch they are all pretty adequate solutions subjectively, but which, if any, makes you want to move, or the hair on your neck stand up? Which do you really like however practical or impractical it might be?


They all sound very similar. 
The A30 has a replaceable OP-AMP which I swapped for a LM4562 and compared against my second stock A30. 
The A30 with the upgraded OP-AMP sounds the best to me, but it is marginal and comes out the most in music with Cymbals and Harps. 
But honestly this is with analytical listening. 
I can plug any of my headphones into any of the 3 amps and listen all day. 
Just the A30 offers by far the most granular volume control which to me makes it the best offering. 
I've also cycled the DACs and they all sound similar to any of the outputs (can't test DX7 with another DAC, it only outputs). 
I tested the other amps with the Fulla 2 (DAC section), Modi multibit, SMSL M8, SMSL M8A, Topping D30, FiiO K1 (with windows volume adjusted). 
Most of them sound similar in terms of listening to every day music but each has their own characteristics, especially with the selectable filters on the M8/M8A. 

Otherwise volume was the biggest factor, which is based on the output Voltage of each DAC specifically. 

My favorite ones by My ears were M8 and the D30. For all around listening specifically. 

So all I can say is choose what works based on what headphones you have / plan to own. Buy what is most versatile for everyday listening (if you plan to listen every day that is).


----------



## Mkoll

Just placed an order today. Couldn't resist! I had spent quite a bit of time with my magni 2 Uber before selling it I'm excited to hear how they've improved it.


----------



## Astonish

I might be selling my magni 3 if anyone is interested in saving a few dollars for one that's only a couple days old


----------



## MorrisVentus

Astonish said:


> I might be selling my magni 3 if anyone is interested in saving a few dollars for one that's only a couple days old



Something wrong with it? I mean I would love to take it and all. I am just waiting for Modi 3 to come out.


----------



## Astonish

MorrisVentus said:


> Something wrong with it? I mean I would love to take it and all. I am just waiting for Modi 3 to come out.




Nope, nothing is wrong with the amp. It's only 3 days old, so still have 12 days to return it. I posted my impressions a few posts up


----------



## OopsWrongPlanet

AviadT said:


> Can someone that has the o2 amp and the Magni 3 make a comparison between them?
> I'v joined the Massdrop's o2+SDAC drop and considering to cancel the purchase and buy the Magni 3 instead.
> Is it worth paying extra 60$ for the M3 over the o2?



How did you come up with that extra $60 for M3?
O2 - $149, M3 - $99
.


----------



## AviadT (Sep 29, 2017)

OopsWrongPlanet said:


> How did you come up with that extra $60 for M3?
> O2 - $149, M3 - $99
> .



Its 150$ for the o2+sdac on Massdrop and 80$ for the sdac alone.
The Magni 3 is ~130$ for me (I don't live in the US, so ~30$ for shipping). If I would buy the Magni 3 + sdac it will cost me 210$. (60$ more)
Sorry for not explaining it before.


----------



## yangian

Anyone have impression of Magni3 vs Ember 2? Thanks!


----------



## DavidA

AviadT said:


> Its 150$ for the o2+sdac on Massdrop and 80$ for the sdac alone.
> The Magni 3 is ~130$ for me (I don't live in the US, so ~30$ for shipping). If I would buy the Magni 3 + sdac it will cost me 210$. (60$ more)
> Sorry for not explaining it before.


Great explanation but you might want to change your location in your profile since it says USA if you didn't realize it.


----------



## manukmanohar

Has anyone tried this with HE-560. Would love to hear your impressions.


----------



## Jimster480

Astonish said:


> I might be selling my magni 3 if anyone is interested in saving a few dollars for one that's only a couple days old


Why would you sell it already?


----------



## SunByrne

Just ordered an M3. Was going to order a second M2U for work anyway, then saw the M3 came out and is even cheaper than the M2U. The value!


----------



## AudioBear

Jimster480 said:


> Why would you sell it already?



And why would you go to the hassle of dealing with an individual, shipping etc, when if it's a few days old Schiit will take it back no questions asked?


----------



## MtnMan307

I have a Vali 2 and Mimby stack for now.  My headphones are the K7XX and HD650. 

Is the Magni 3 worth getting with these cans?  I've only ever had the Vali 2 for an amp, which seems like a very good match for the K7XX and decent for the 650s.  I wonder what both headphones will do with the M3 or Jotunheim though, or some other amp out there.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

AudioBear said:


> And why would you go to the hassle of dealing with an individual, shipping etc, when if it's a few days old Schiit will take it back no questions asked?



There will be 15% restocking fee. I guess it will benefit others more than returning it back to schiit


----------



## Jimster480

AviadT said:


> Its 150$ for the o2+sdac on Massdrop and 80$ for the sdac alone.
> The Magni 3 is ~130$ for me (I don't live in the US, so ~30$ for shipping). If I would buy the Magni 3 + sdac it will cost me 210$. (60$ more)
> Sorry for not explaining it before.


Honestly I wouldn't buy the SDAC, get a Topping D30 or a Modi 2 if you want a "cheap" but good DAC.



ahmadfaizadnan said:


> There will be 15% restocking fee. I guess it will benefit others more than returning it back to schiit


Nevermind if you have to pay for return shipping. That could be and easy $30 lost.


----------



## hikaru12 (Sep 29, 2017)

So does anyone see any point in upgrading from the regular Magni 2 to the 3? I'm probably going to switch out the volume knob again to a true D shaft which is what this pot uses so I can get a more accurate idea of where it sits. The set screw while it works fine doesn't really give me a good idea since this isn't a threaded T18 pot.


----------



## Jimster480

hikaru12 said:


> So does anyone see any point in upgrading from the regular Magni 2 to the 3? I'm probably going to switch out the volume knob again to a true D shaft which is what this pot uses so I can get a more accurate idea of where it sits. The set screw while it works fine doesn't really give me a good idea since this isn't a threaded T18 pot.


This depends on if you are happy with your Magni 2.


----------



## hikaru12

Jimster480 said:


> This depends on if you are happy with your Magni 2.



The only issue I have with it is having to jack my volume up to be able to get my 400is to a decent level but I don't know if double the power would translate to double the volume due to decibels being logarithmic in nature in relation to volume.


----------



## Jimster480

hikaru12 said:


> The only issue I have with it is having to jack my volume up to be able to get my 400is to a decent level but I don't know if double the power would translate to double the volume due to decibels being logarithmic in nature in relation to volume.


But if it gets to the volume you desire to listen at without distortion then you are fine 

I listen a lower volumes so my volume POTs are usually set to low levels day in and day out.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

MtnMan307 said:


> I have a Vali 2 and Mimby stack for now.  My headphones are the K7XX and HD650.
> 
> Is the Magni 3 worth getting with these cans?  I've only ever had the Vali 2 for an amp, which seems like a very good match for the K7XX and decent for the 650s.  I wonder what both headphones will do with the M3 or Jotunheim though, or some other amp out there.



I also have the Mimby & Vali 2 stack and got a Magni 3 the other day. I can't speak for the K7XX, but my HD650s and all the other headphones in my signature now seem a bit more lively & detailed with the Magni 3. The HD650s definitely benefit from the higher power output of the Magni 3. Overall, the Vali 2 has a softer signature than the Magni 3, but not in a bad way if you are into tubes. Thankfully, there is no harsh treble/brightness with the Magni 3 that can be found on many cheaper solid state amps.  I truly enjoyed my Vali 2 over the past several months, but I plan to sell it since I now prefer the Magni 3.


----------



## alpovs

SunByrne said:


> Just ordered an M3. Was going to order a second M2U for work anyway, then saw the M3 came out and is even cheaper than the M2U. The value!


When you get the M3 please post you impressions compared to the M2U that you have.


----------



## DavidA

AudioBear said:


> And why would you go to the hassle of dealing with an individual, shipping etc, when if it's a few days old Schiit will take it back no questions asked?


deleted


----------



## Jimster480

DavidA said:


> isn't there a restocking fee if you return to Schiit? if selling to an individual then no restocking fee lost would be my reason.


You are right in that there would be a restocking fee.


----------



## SunByrne

alpovs said:


> When you get the M3 please post you impressions compared to the M2U that you have.



That was my plan. It make take me a while since work is kind of crazy now (midterms and a conference coming up, all magnified by the fact that we lost the 2nd week of the semester to Harvey), but I will certainly post at some point.

I will say I was impressed how fast Schiit processed the order--I got the shipping notice and tracking number less than two hours after placing the order. Schiit's always been pretty good before but that's lightning-fast.


----------



## HipHopScribe (Sep 29, 2017)

MtnMan307 said:


> I have a Vali 2 and Mimby stack for now.  My headphones are the K7XX and HD650.
> 
> Is the Magni 3 worth getting with these cans?  I've only ever had the Vali 2 for an amp, which seems like a very good match for the K7XX and decent for the 650s.  I wonder what both headphones will do with the M3 or Jotunheim though, or some other amp out there.



I've found that the Magni 3 gives the 650s a bit more life, it has more attack and a little more detail than the Vali 2 (with an EH 6922 tube in my case), bass is more defined and highs a bit crisper (but not harsh or sibilant). Not huge leaps mind you, but noticeable. Can't speak to the K7XX


----------



## RiflemanFirst

HipHopScribe said:


> I've found that the Magni 3 gives the 650s a bit more life, it has a bit more attack and a little more detail than the Vali 2 (with an EH 6922 tube in my case), bass is more defined and highs a bit crisper (but not harsh or sibilant). Not huge leaps mind you, but noticeable. Can't speak to the K7XX



Pretty much mirrors my findings exactly. Funny how so many Mimby & Vali 2 owners are considering or already have bought a Magni 3.


----------



## Chapp

HipHopScribe said:


> I've found that the Magni 3 gives the 650s a bit more life, it has more attack and a little more detail than the Vali 2 (with an EH 6922 tube in my case), bass is more defined and highs a bit crisper (but not harsh or sibilant). Not huge leaps mind you, but noticeable. Can't speak to the K7XX



I'm rather sensitive to treble so I bought the HD650 to experience the warmness everyone talks about... This amp wont make them sound less warm will it? I'm wondering if I should go tubular or not haha. thanks!


----------



## HipHopScribe (Sep 29, 2017)

RiflemanFirst said:


> Pretty much mirrors my findings exactly. Funny how so many Mimby & Vali 2 owners are considering or already have bought a Magni 3.



At $99 it was just too tempting to give it a try, especially knowing I already liked Schiit's products



Chapp said:


> I'm rather sensitive to treble so I bought the HD650 to experience the warmness everyone talks about... This amp wont make them sound less warm will it? I'm wondering if I should go tubular or not haha. thanks!



I don't think the 650s and Magni 3 would pose any problem in terms of treble, the highs on the Magni 3 aren't harsh at all to my ears. It seems to me that the Magni 3 doesn't really affect the underlying characteristics of your headphones much. 650s are still gonna be smooth, pleasant headphones, the Magni 3 just gives them a lot of good, clean power to bring out their best. The Vali 2 does give you more flexibility to be able to alter the sound signature by swapping out tubes, which can be an advantage.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

RiflemanFirst said:


> I also have the Mimby & Vali 2 stack and got a Magni 3 the other day. I can't speak for the K7XX, but my HD650s and all the other headphones in my signature now seem a bit more lively & detailed with the Magni 3. The HD650s definitely benefit from the higher power output of the Magni 3. Overall, the Vali 2 has a softer signature than the Magni 3, but not in a bad way if you are into tubes. Thankfully, there is no harsh treble/brightness with the Magni 3 that can be found on many cheaper solid state amps.  I truly enjoyed my Vali 2 over the past several months, but I plan to sell it since I now prefer the Magni 3.



Im ordering a Magni 3 tonight to use with my HD650! Your comment just got me even more hyped!!! I have been using them mostly un-amped or in a cheap sound card. (I have used them amped briefly) I love the signature of the HD650, but un-amped they have little bass and awful treble. I can't wait to hear it! 

Thanks!


----------



## RiflemanFirst

16 Bit Bowser said:


> Im ordering a Magni 3 tonight to use with my HD650! Your comment just got me even more hyped!!! I have been using them mostly un-amped or in a cheap sound card. (I have used them amped briefly) I love the signature of the HD650, but un-amped they have little bass and awful treble. I can't wait to hear it!
> 
> Thanks!



I hope you enjoy it. What DAC do you plan to buy/use?


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser (Sep 29, 2017)

RiflemanFirst said:


> I hope you enjoy it. What DAC do you plan to buy/use?



Hopefully the Modi 3 will be released by the time I'm ready to buy a proper DAC; within 6 months or so. That said, I'm not the biggest believer in DAC "upgrades". As long as the DAC is decent I think it's good enough, at least for me. If a Modi 3 is released I WILL buy it, if not I will get a Modi 2. For now I plan to use my sound cards Line Out and a Sony CD player as the primary sources.

Also have you plugged your HD598 SE into your Magni 3? If so whats it like?
(I have a HD598 SE too...)


----------



## Chapp

HipHopScribe said:


> I don't think the 650s and Magni 3 would pose any problem in terms of treble, the highs on the Magni 3 aren't harsh at all to my ears. It seems to me that the Magni 3 doesn't really affect the underlying characteristics of your headphones much. 650s are still gonna be smooth, pleasant headphones, the Magni 3 just gives them a lot of good, clean power to bring out their best. The Vali 2 does give you more flexibility to be able to alter the sound signature by swapping out tubes, which can be an advantage.



Awesome, sounds like a great choice then! I've just heard that the modi 2 and o2 are both rather bright amplifiers... I'm leaning towards the M3 with Multibit and then maybe add the vali as triple stack, or bottlehead crack down the line. Thanks!


----------



## soundofmed

HipHopScribe said:


> At $99 it was just too tempting to give it a try, especially knowing I already liked Schiit's products
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the 650s and Magni 3 would pose any problem in terms of treble, the highs on the Magni 3 aren't harsh at all to my ears. It seems to me that the Magni 3 doesn't really affect the underlying characteristics of your headphones much. 650s are still gonna be smooth, pleasant headphones, the Magni 3 just gives them a lot of good, clean power to bring out their best. The Vali 2 does give you more flexibility to be able to alter the sound signature by swapping out tubes, which can be an advantage.


When you and many others say the amp sounds neutral or when the jot sounds bright, what Equipment are you using as reference in the first place for "colorless sound reprodecution" and how can one say that headphone x isnt supposed to sound what its meant to be on the jot compared to mag3. Did everyone have the same standard in dac/amp when it was the first time hearing their respective headphones?

Just playing a bit of the devils advocate here.. and trying to get some of your feedback


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

This may be an odd question but the Magni 3 is class AB right?


----------



## RickB

16 Bit Bowser said:


> This may be an odd question but the Magni 3 is class AB right?



Yes it is.


----------



## HipHopScribe

soundofmed said:


> When you and many others say the amp sounds neutral or when the jot sounds bright, what Equipment are you using as reference in the first place for "colorless sound reprodecution" and how can one say that headphone x isnt supposed to sound what its meant to be on the jot compared to mag3. Did everyone have the same standard in dac/amp when it was the first time hearing their respective headphones?
> 
> Just playing a bit of the devils advocate here.. and trying to get some of your feedback



Ultimately it's all relative, I can only judge by the equipment I've used


----------



## RiflemanFirst

16 Bit Bowser said:


> Also have you plugged your HD598 SE into your Magni 3? If so whats it like?
> (I have a HD598 SE too...)



The HD598 SE definitely pairs well with the Magni 3. The sound is clean & detailed and I haven't found any harshness/sibilance with it. Obviously the HD598 is lighter on bass compared to the HD650, but I definitely wouldn't say it is lacking bass. Some people find that the HD598 doesn't NEED a headphone amp, but others (like myself) can tell that the HD598 livens up while being powered by an amp. That is definitely the case with all the amps I've tried it on (Fulla 2, Vali 2 & Magni 3).


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

RiflemanFirst said:


> The HD598 SE definitely pairs well with the Magni 3. The sound is clean & detailed and I haven't found any harshness/sibilance with it. Obviously the HD598 is lighter on bass compared to the HD650, but I definitely wouldn't say it is lacking bass. Some people find that the HD598 doesn't NEED a headphone amp, but others (like myself) can tell that the HD598 livens up while being powered by an amp. That is definitely the case with all the amps I've tried it on (Fulla 2, Vali 2 & Magni 3).



Thanks again! Yeah, I totally agree about the HD598 SE sounding better amped. 
Another quick question about the HD650 + Magni 3. Do you use high or low gain?


----------



## RiflemanFirst

16 Bit Bowser said:


> Thanks again! Yeah, I totally agree about the HD598 SE sounding better amped.
> Another quick question about the HD650 + Magni 3. Do you use high or low gain?



I personally use high gain with the HD650. I've read that some people here are using low gain with their HD650/6XX, but I guess I'm deaf or something. All my other headphones use low gain.


----------



## DavidA

soundofmed said:


> When you and many others say the amp sounds neutral or when the jot sounds bright, what Equipment are you using as reference in the first place for "colorless sound reprodecution" and how can one say that headphone x isnt supposed to sound what its meant to be on the jot compared to mag3. Did everyone have the same standard in dac/amp when it was the first time hearing their respective headphones?
> 
> Just playing a bit of the devils advocate here.. and trying to get some of your feedback


A good point and I would like to see how others can explain neutral.

My take on trying to explain neutral to friends that have no concept of warm / neutral / bright but have heard a few headphones is to find some common ground where we are both on the same page and then give them some comparisons to more well know headphones such as the HD600 and HD650.  

For those which have spent some time with headphones its a little easier, but it easy to start with the HD600 or HD650 since these are well known headphones and give a good common starting point to a majority of those on Head-Fi.


----------



## soundofmed

DavidA said:


> A good point and I would like to see how others can explain neutral.
> 
> My take on trying to explain neutral to friends that have no concept of warm / neutral / bright but have heard a few headphones is to find some common ground where we are both on the same page and then give them some comparisons to more well know headphones such as the HD600 and HD650.
> 
> For those which have spent some time with headphones its a little easier, but it easy to start with the HD600 or HD650 since these are well known headphones and give a good common starting point to a majority of those on Head-Fi.


Of course there are obvious cans like those but what I was specifically referring to were amps.


----------



## DavidA

soundofmed said:


> Of course there are obvious cans like those but what I was specifically referring to were amps.


Use the HD600 and HD650 to compare amps, if an amp makes the HD600 bright or makes the HD650 sound neutral then I would consider the amp to be on the bright side.


----------



## Astonish

AudioBear said:


> And why would you go to the hassle of dealing with an individual, shipping etc, when if it's a few days old Schiit will take it back no questions asked?



15% restocking fee plus shipping. I could return it to them and lose $25 or sell it someone on here and let them save a few bucks, while I save a few on the return.

Plus I don't hate the amp, I just don't like it as much as I thought. I see a couple people with planars complaining


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

It works really well with HD800 (SDR mod) actually. I have it run from my Spring DAC KTE but I never heard other magni, jot, asgard and vali so not sure how to compare with them; I did have valhalla 2 in the past and I thought that valhalla 2 do better but hey, we are comparing amp at 3 times more than magni's price here. It is definitely different than valhalla in terms of sound signature. It sounds like a mini ECP DSHA-0 amp. Neutral and smooth at the top end. Not too warm but enough to please your ears. Put your mind at ease because this amp will make your ears pleased


----------



## AudioBear

Astonish said:


> 15% restocking fee plus shipping. I could return it to them and lose $25 or sell it someone on here and let them save a few bucks, while I save a few on the return.
> 
> Plus I don't hate the amp, I just don't like it as much as I thought. I see a couple people with planars complaining



Maybe I don't understand the market.  Figured you'd have to discount it about $25 and for that I'd much rather deal with a reputable company I know well.  I'd even loose a little more for that security. We're all different, that's for sure.  

Oh, I play my Magni 3 through Oppo PM-3s (planar) and they are great with it--of course they are a very efficient planar.  You are right to move on if you don't like it.  Me, I'm selling a $600 well regarded amp and keeping the Magni 3.


----------



## Frozeneagle

Does anyone has this amp as well as the O2 amp paired with HD600 for comparison? I am looking for a cheap and decent setup for my desk. TIA!


----------



## Astonish (Sep 30, 2017)

AudioBear said:


> Maybe I don't understand the market.  Figured you'd have to discount it about $25 and for that I'd much rather deal with a reputable company I know well.  I'd even loose a little more for that security. We're all different, that's for sure.
> 
> Oh, I play my Magni 3 through Oppo PM-3s (planar) and they are great with it--of course they are a very efficient planar.  You are right to move on if you don't like it.  Me, I'm selling a $600 well regarded amp and keeping the Magni 3.



Someone offered me $100 shipped. Told him I'm going to spend some time with the magni 3 over the weekend and decide if I like it enough to keep, otherwise it's his


----------



## MementoMori99 (Sep 30, 2017)

My personal experience is that solid state hp amps(Class A & Class A/B) and dacs typically require a minimum of 24-hrs. of break-in to sound their best.  FYI, Magni 3 is Class A/B.  That means playing music at medium volume levels through your cans for that same duration.  Also, after proper break-in, the amp or dac in question should be always warmed up(switched on with no music playing) for a minimum of 15-min. before commencing any critical listening tests.


----------



## Jubijub

Question to owners of desktop powered speakers. The Asgard FAQ says : 

Does the volume control adjust the preamp outputs?
Yes.

Can I turn off the headphone outs when I’m using the preamp outputs?
Plugging in headphones automatically disconnects the pre-outs.

But the Magni 3 FAQ doesn't say anything. What would be the answer for the two questions above ?
Can I control the desktop speakers sound using the volume knob ? Does pre-out switch on/off depending on whether the headphones are plugged ?

I'm really tempted by the Magni 3 for price vs specs, but I like the flexibility of the "desktop control center"


----------



## episiarch

> Can I control the desktop speakers sound using the volume knob ? Does pre-out switch on/off depending on whether the headphones are plugged ?

It's in the owner's manual: yes to both.  (And same as other Schiit amps that have preamp outs.)


----------



## Jubijub

episiarch said:


> > Can I control the desktop speakers sound using the volume knob ? Does pre-out switch on/off depending on whether the headphones are plugged ?
> 
> It's in the owner's manual: yes to both.  (And same as other Schiit amps that have preamp outs.)


Many thanks...

In which case, comparing the specs, what is the difference with an Asgard 2 (excluding the larger case and the internal power supply) ?


----------



## AudioBear

Astonish said:


> Someone offered me $100 shipped. Told him I'm going to spend some time with the magni 3 over the weekend and decide if I like it enough to keep, otherwise it's his



That's a pretty good offer. You're going to come out $1 ahead.  Are they out of stock?


----------



## AudioBear

Jubijub said:


> Many thanks...
> 
> In which case, comparing the specs, what is the difference with an Asgard 2 (excluding the larger case and the internal power supply) ?



I can't say if it sounds different or not because I have never heard Asgard 2.  Asgard 2 is a whole different design.  I think the Schiit site even calls the design Pure Class A inspired by [amp design guru] Nelson Pass or something like that. FWIW class A is supposed to be very good but is not used much for larger amps because it runs hot due to being 100% on all the time.  Clearly a bad class A won't sound as good as a well designed and/or well built Class A/B amp and vice versa.  Magni 3 is also a very innovative design by Jason. Bottom line is they are different in design.  They could end up, however, sounding very similar.

I'd like to hear more from people who have compared Asgard 2 to Magni 3.  There are a few comments about this over in Jason Stoddard's thread on the first day of the new chapter. I asked how the two compared.


----------



## Jubijub (Sep 30, 2017)

My question relates to powering a HD800 (non S version). It seems most people use tube amp for this, like the Valhalla 2, but the 99$ pricetag of the Magni3 kinda begs the question


----------



## AudioBear

Jubijub said:


> My question relates to powering a HD800 (non S version). It seems most people use tube amp for this, like the Valhalla 2, but the 99$ pricetag of the Magni3 kinda begs the question



At this price you could buy and return/resell (see above how Astonish did reselling).  The 800s is felt by some to be to bright and even grating which is attributed to a HF peak. Tube amps that are rolled off or laid back are supposed to be the antidote.  The only way to really know if an amp is good with your 800s is to try it yourself because this is a subjective individual judgement.  We all hear and react differently. That said, Magni 3 is not overly bright or shrill and might well work with an HD800.  Several on the forum, including me, found it to be fine with the 800S, I think one didn't.


----------



## damstr

I gotta say the preamp switching between desktop speakers and headphones on it's own has saved me from manually reaching around the back of my PC to switch cables.


----------



## nicoch46

single ended in class A vs pushpull in AB ..... quite big


----------



## DavidA

AudioBear said:


> At this price you could buy and return/resell (see above how Astonish did reselling).  The 800s is felt by some to be to bright and even grating which is attributed to a HF peak. *Tube amps that are rolled off or laid back are supposed to be the antidote*.  The only way to really know if an amp is good with your 800s is to try it yourself because this is a subjective individual judgement.  We all hear and react differently. That said, Magni 3 is not overly bright or shrill and might well work with an HD800.  Several on the forum, including me, found it to be fine with the 800S, I think one didn't.


Not all tube amps are rolled off or laid back, some of them are as sharp and extended as the best solid state amps.  Agree that the HD800 is bright but it affect different people in different ways, as you put it "its subjective individual judgement" and this is were a choice of amp comes into play along with the choice of tubes if a tube amp is selected. 

Something to think about: my BH Crack can make my HD650 sound brighter than my Asgard2 depending on the choice of power and driver tubes, this is the value of going with a well designed tube amp where you can tune the sound to your preference.  From a value perspective the Magni3 is hands down one of the best deals these days and for a friend who wanted a compact amp/DAC I felt really good recommending the Magni3 and Modi MB for her HD650, HE400i and Ypsilon S2 that I built for her.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

DavidA said:


> Not all tube amps are rolled off or laid back, some of them are as sharp and extended as the best solid state amps.  Agree that the HD800 is bright but it affect different people in different ways, as you put it "its subjective individual judgement" and this is were a choice of amp comes into play along with the choice of tubes if a tube amp is selected.
> 
> Something to think about: my BH Crack can make my HD650 sound brighter than my Asgard2 depending on the choice of power and driver tubes, this is the value of going with a well designed tube amp where you can tune the sound to your preference.  From a value perspective the Magni3 is hands down one of the best deals these days and for a friend who wanted a compact amp/DAC I felt really good recommending the Magni3 and Modi MB for her HD650, HE400i and Ypsilon S2 that I built for her.



agree. IMO valhalla2 with stock tube is not really warm until I change the stock tube to ECC88.


----------



## DavidA (Sep 30, 2017)

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> agree. IMO valhalla2 with stock tube is not really warm until I change the stock tube to ECC88.


ECC88 tubes are just the technical description of the tubes but which brand was it that made the Valhalla2 a bit warmer?  Amperex? Mullard?  FWIW my impression of the Valhalla2 was it was like a SS amp with the stock tubes and it didn't respond to different tubes like the Lyr2, BH Crack, and Ember that I still have.  If the Magni3 has a similar sound to that of a stock Valhalla2 then my friend will be very happy when she gets her stack next week since she wanted an amp that was close to neutral or very slightly warm, its why I suggested the Magni3 to her in the first place and she didn't want to wait 5 months for the Massdrop CTH or Carbon X.


----------



## nicoch46

RCA brand sound velvet look for black plate or long plate


----------



## Astonish

AudioBear said:


> That's a pretty good offer. You're going to come out $1 ahead.  Are they out of stock?



Not sure, but cost me $112, did you get free shipping/tax?


----------



## Jimster480

Astonish said:


> Not sure, but cost me $112, did you get free shipping/tax?


Yea I've never gotten free shipping/tax so I'm not sure who actually would have paid $99 flat.


----------



## AudioBear

Astonish said:


> Not sure, but cost me $112, did you get free shipping/tax?



No, I assumed that the buyer paid shipping but that was mostly a way of saying you did well and have beat the 15% restocking fee.  You're out the tax minus $1.  What is they say?  Two things for certain in life are death and taxes.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

DavidA said:


> ECC88 tubes are just the technical description of the tubes but which brand was it that made the Valhalla2 a bit warmer?  Amperex? Mullard?  FWIW my impression of the Valhalla2 was it was like a SS amp with the stock tubes and it didn't respond to different tubes like the Lyr2, BH Crack, and Ember that I still have.  If the Magni3 has a similar sound to that of a stock Valhalla2 then my friend will be very happy when she gets her stack next week since she wanted an amp that was close to neutral or very slightly warm, its why I suggested the Magni3 to her in the first place and she didn't want to wait 5 months for the Massdrop CTH or Carbon X.



It was amperex orange globe. I bought a used pair and it was made in Holland. Based on what I read, the USA version of it is not as warm as the holland version but I never compare them so don't quote me on that. I did see improvements when I changed the tubes and there's a thread on the tube roll for valhalla2; that's where I get the source to buy the tubes. 

I would say that valhalla2 has a bigger soundstage and bass but I like the magni 3 more than valhalla 2. Since the valhalla 2 is sold long ago and I only used bifrost 4490 as dac to pair with the amp, I don't think it's fair compare the vahalla2 with my setup now. I pair the magni 3 with spring Dac level 3 and it sounds amazing. I also can assure that its neutral and slightly warm. Despite being warm, I can definitely hear the guitar strings and cymbals in the music without mixing with the mids. The treble is pronounces well. Your friend will love it for sure!


----------



## Astral Abyss

So I hooked up the Magni 3 to my Gen 5 Yggdrasil.  You're not going to believe this but it sounds like a Magni 3 connected to an Yggdrasil.    All joking aside, if you think about it, that statement is actually a compliment to Magni.  That little amp can hold it's own.  I had no indication that it was coloring the sound in any way.  The only indication you're listening to a $99 amp is that it lacks the brute force and soundstage of Ragnarok, and that's perfectly fine.

I'll tell you what though, my stack of Eitr, Modi 2U, Loki, and Magni 3 really shows what the HD650 is capable of.  Cranked the 20Hz knob up to about +10 and the 4k knob about +3-4, left the others at 0 and they're bass monsters with no hint of a veil.  Plenty of power on tap from Magni and not a bit of distortion.


----------



## AudioBear

Astral Abyss said:


> So I hooked up the Magni 3 to my Gen 5 Yggdrasil.  You're not going to believe this but it sounds like a Magni 3 connected to an Yggdrasil.    All joking aside, if you think about it, that statement is actually a compliment to Magni.  That little amp can hold it's own.  I had no indication that it was coloring the sound in any way.  The only indication you're listening to a $99 amp is that it lacks the brute force and soundstage of Ragnarok, and that's perfectly fine.
> 
> I'll tell you what though, my stack of Eitr, Modi 2U, Loki, and Magni 3 really shows what the HD650 is capable of.  Cranked the 20Hz knob up to about +10 and the 4k knob about +3-4, left the others at 0 and they're bass monsters with no hint of a veil.  Plenty of power on tap from Magni and not a bit of distortion.



Thanks for the report. Fascinating about the Magni 3 but not really surprising.  It's an amazing amp.  I nonetheless keep dropping unsubtle hints to my wife that a Yggy and Rag would make a good birthday present.

My Loki Mini arrived today but I haven't had a chance to set it up. Good to hear that it does the job.


----------



## Astral Abyss

AudioBear said:


> Thanks for the report. Fascinating about the Magni 3 but not really surprising.  It's an amazing amp.  I nonetheless keep dropping unsubtle hints to my wife that a Yggy and Rag would make a good birthday present.
> 
> My Loki Mini arrived today but I haven't had a chance to set it up. Good to hear that it does the job.



I think you're going to love it.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Astral Abyss said:


> So I hooked up the Magni 3 to my Gen 5 Yggdrasil.  You're not going to believe this but it sounds like a Magni 3 connected to an Yggdrasil.    All joking aside, if you think about it, that statement is actually a compliment to Magni.  That little amp can hold it's own.  I had no indication that it was coloring the sound in any way.  The only indication you're listening to a $99 amp is that it lacks the brute force and soundstage of Ragnarok, and that's perfectly fine.
> 
> I'll tell you what though, my stack of Eitr, Modi 2U, Loki, and Magni 3 really shows what the HD650 is capable of.  Cranked the 20Hz knob up to about +10 and the 4k knob about +3-4, left the others at 0 and they're bass monsters with no hint of a veil.  Plenty of power on tap from Magni and not a bit of distortion.



I just bought loki due to the amazing magni 3 performance. I am intrigued to try pairing them together and see how they perform with spring KTE.


----------



## Astral Abyss

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I just bought loki due to the amazing magni 3 performance. I am intrigued to try pairing them together and see how they perform with spring KTE.



Loki is really transparent.  Doesn't add any noise or clipping.  

I picked up a Cthulhu to run Eitr, Modi, Loki, and Magni and it looks so clean.  My wife even braided the 4 cables to keep them from tangling.  I can literally just pick it all up and move it to whatever system I want it.


----------



## Mkoll

Astral Abyss said:


> Loki is really transparent.  Doesn't add any noise or clipping.
> 
> I picked up a Cthulhu to run Eitr, Modi, Loki, and Magni and it looks so clean.  My wife even braided the 4 cables to keep them from tangling.  I can literally just pick it all up and move it to whatever system I want it.


The Cthulhu?


----------



## Astral Abyss

Mkoll said:


> The Cthulhu?



Yup!  Great product.
http://www.schiit.com/products/floor-wart


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan (Oct 1, 2017)

Astral Abyss said:


> Yup!  Great product.
> http://www.schiit.com/products/floor-wart



Cool! I should've bought this before if I knew this earlier.


----------



## Mkoll (Oct 1, 2017)

Astral Abyss said:


> Yup!  Great product.
> http://www.schiit.com/products/floor-wart


I half-thought you were pulling our legs. I mean, "Cthulhu"?! c'mon you can do better than that!

But it is from "_Schiit_ Audio," after all.


----------



## Jubijub

OK, bit the bullet, went on with a combo Modi 2 Multibit "Mimby" + Magni 3

I read the forums carefully yesterday, and amid all the differences of opinions, I made my mind based on the fact sheets : 
- apart from the form factor and the power supply part, the Magni 3 exceeds the specs of the Asgard 2 (this probably makes sense as I heard that the Magni 3 was originally meant to be the Asgard 3). I decided against going with tubes (MTBF is quite low, making this less practical to use)
- many people seem to admit that Mimby vs Bimby is impossible to tell apart if the volume is normalized.

Considering I come from a SB ZxR, this will already be an improvement.
I'll let you know my "impressions" with the HD800.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Jubijub said:


> OK, bit the bullet, went on with a combo Modi 2 Multibit "Mimby" + Magni 3
> 
> I read the forums carefully yesterday, and amid all the differences of opinions, I made my mind based on the fact sheets :
> - apart from the form factor and the power supply part, the Magni 3 exceeds the specs of the Asgard 2 (this probably makes sense as I heard that the Magni 3 was originally meant to be the Asgard 3). I decided against going with tubes (MTBF is quite low, making this less practical to use)
> ...



Nice mate, Looking at going with the same combo myself. Ill keep a lookout for your thoughts.


----------



## wilflare

got my Magni3 yesterday!

my current set-up!
Audinst HUD-mx1 DAC > Schiit Magni3 > RCA out to my AegoM.

just to check...
I should set the volume knob on my HUD-mx1 out to MAX right?
and is it okay if I were to set volume max on my AegoM speakers (and use my Magni3 to control the overall volume)


----------



## Dovi

Jubijub said:


> Considering I come from a SB ZxR, this will already be an improvement.
> I'll let you know my "impressions" with the HD800.



I went for the exact same setup as you. And i currently have fidelio x2 with SB ZxR. 
My schiit stack should be here monday and I will receive HD800S wednesday. 

Hope it Will make a great upgrade. 

How is your HD800 with ZxR just by curiosity ?


----------



## CarlosUnchained (Oct 1, 2017)

Astonish said:


> I see a couple people with planars complaining



Care to explain or point them? I can't find those.


----------



## Cdog

Jubijub said:


> OK, bit the bullet, went on with a combo Modi 2 Multibit "Mimby" + Magni 3
> 
> I read the forums carefully yesterday, and amid all the differences of opinions, I made my mind based on the fact sheets :
> - apart from the form factor and the power supply part, the Magni 3 exceeds the specs of the Asgard 2 (this probably makes sense as I heard that the Magni 3 was originally meant to be the Asgard 3). I decided against going with tubes (MTBF is quite low, making this less practical to use)
> ...



I have the Modi Multibit/Magni 3 scheduled for delivery tomorrow. I'm currently using a Modi/Magni Uber stack.


----------



## Jimster480

wilflare said:


> got my Magni3 yesterday!
> 
> my current set-up!
> Audinst HUD-mx1 DAC > Schiit Magni3 > RCA out to my AegoM.
> ...



What is the point of this? The amp is doing NOTHING!


----------



## Jimster480

I just ordered a Magni 3 for use with my Denon AH-MM400/AH-7200's


----------



## -ImageX

Hey guys... I’m new here. I’ve always been very happy with Fiio amped M50s but decided to step it up to a Magni 3 and HD650. I am a little underwhelmed with that combo. I understand the HD650 is harder to drive because of the 300 ohms but the Magni 3 severely lacks the authority compared to Fiio A5/M50. It just BARELY beats out the A5 with the HD650. I’m slightly dumbfounded given it has so much more power. I want my HD650 driven loud and hard. Anyone have thoughts on what’s going on? Thanks for any info/advice/opinions. Nice resource you have all built here.


----------



## Tuneslover (Oct 2, 2017)

Does the Magni 3 have a loud popping sound upon start up like the Magni 2U and original Magni have?


----------



## techboy

-ImageX said:


> Hey guys... I’m new here. I’ve always been very happy with Fiio amped M50s but decided to step it up to a Magni 3 and HD650. I am a little underwhelmed with that combo. I understand the HD650 is harder to drive because of the 300 ohms but the Magni 3 severely lacks the authority compared to Fiio A5/M50. It just BARELY beats out the A5 with the HD650. I’m slightly dumbfounded given it has so much more power. I want my HD650 driven loud and hard. Anyone have thoughts on what’s going on? Thanks for any info/advice/opinions. Nice resource you have all built here.



Have you tried High Gain?


----------



## DavidA

-ImageX said:


> Hey guys... I’m new here. I’ve always been very happy with Fiio amped M50s but decided to step it up to a Magni 3 and HD650. I am a little underwhelmed with that combo. I understand the HD650 is harder to drive because of the 300 ohms but the Magni 3 severely lacks the authority compared to Fiio A5/M50. It just BARELY beats out the A5 with the HD650. I’m slightly dumbfounded given it has so much more power. I want my HD650 driven loud and hard. Anyone have thoughts on what’s going on? Thanks for any info/advice/opinions. Nice resource you have all built here.


The HD650 is not a headphone that sounds great really loud (90dB+) IMO.  Also, its not the amount of "power" that is the issue for you, its the relationship or synergy between the amp and headphone which is the impedance output of the Magni3 which I would guess is fairly close to the A5 so its no surprise that there is little difference in the sound to you.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Considering how my Magni 2 can make my ears go deaf on low gain maximum volume, I'm surprised that you find the power lacking.  Perhaps your dac/source has lowered volume?


----------



## -ImageX

The Magni 3/ HD650 doesn’t get anywhere near as loud as the A5/M50. To me, it seems like the HD 650 is a very hungry headphone... which is fine. Just underwhelmed by the Magni 3 when powering them... on high gain. I expected much more for sure. Maybe I should try another amp? I think something may be wrong with my amp if anyone thinks that the low gain can be deafening with the HD 650. Still though, the Magni 3 is clearly pumping more power into my M50 when I use those so it’s a little confusing.

My source is a X5 MkIII with Flac and Apple lossless. Line out volume maxed.


----------



## DavidA (Oct 2, 2017)

-ImageX said:


> The Magni 3/ HD650 doesn’t get anywhere near as loud as the A5/M50. To me, it seems like the HD 650 is a very hungry headphone... which is fine. Just underwhelmed by the Magni 3 when powering them... on high gain. I expected much more for sure. Maybe I should try another amp? I think something may be wrong with my amp if anyone thinks that the low gain can be deafening with the HD 650. Still though, the Magni 3 is clearly pumping more power into my M50 when I use those so it’s a little confusing.
> 
> My source is a X5 MkIII with Flac and Apple lossless. Line out volume maxed.


The HD650 is not as efficient as the M50 but my old Fiio X3 DAP will get the HD650 way too loud for me to listen at.  You might want to download an app to get rough measurements of the dB level that you are listening at since you "loud" is probably not the same as my "loud".    This is how I check the level that I listen at:


I used the closed cell foam to keep outside noise from affecting the readings.

And as I noted in my previous post the HD650 is not designed to be driven at 90dB+ levels, I think you will start to have distortion which might damage the drivers in the long run and if you are listen at over 90dB then you might be causing damage to your hearing.


----------



## SomeTechNoob (Oct 2, 2017)

Yup, it's probably a good idea to get some sort of rough measurement.  "Loud" but regular listening volume for me, measured with that app on my HTC One M9, is an average of 39dB with peaks of up to 54dB.  And that's 100% digital volume on Windows and maybe 8:30 on my Magni 2.  If I crank my Magni 2 to 12 o'clock(low gain again, of course), I reach 61dB average with peaks of 77dB on the same song.  I actually couldn't keep the headphones on my ears without feeling too safe about my eardrums at those levels.  The Magni 3 should be quite a bit more powerful, even if Schiit tweaked the volume potentiometer for better low level adjustment.

Here's a quick chart for reference: http://dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/

Remember, health comes first!


----------



## CarlosUnchained

SomeTechNoob said:


> Remember, health comes first!



Sure it does!

I just bought Etymotic Research custom ear protectors for band practice and concerts. I don't want to spend $$$ in headphones to screw up my hearing.
Always listen to the minimum level you can enjoy the music.


----------



## wilflare

Jimster480 said:


> What is the point of this? The amp is doing NOTHING!



oh. I have my Philips Fidelio X1 hooked up to it as well...
but was just wondering what's the best way to set this up to keep my AegoM speakers working...


----------



## HipHopScribe

-ImageX said:


> The Magni 3/ HD650 doesn’t get anywhere near as loud as the A5/M50. To me, it seems like the HD 650 is a very hungry headphone... which is fine. Just underwhelmed by the Magni 3 when powering them... on high gain. I expected much more for sure. Maybe I should try another amp? I think something may be wrong with my amp if anyone thinks that the low gain can be deafening with the HD 650. Still though, the Magni 3 is clearly pumping more power into my M50 when I use those so it’s a little confusing.
> 
> My source is a X5 MkIII with Flac and Apple lossless. Line out volume maxed.



It's not surprise the M50s get louder, they're a more efficient headphone, but unless line-out volume for the X5 is exceptionally low you must listen to music at dangerous volume levels because the Magni 3 has more than enough power to drive the 650s way past comfortable listening levels


----------



## AudioBear

CarlosUnchained said:


> Care to explain or point them? I can't find those.


I use Magni 3 with Pm/3s for hours
So I know it works great with at least one set of planars.  Can’t


-ImageX said:


> The Magni 3/ HD650 doesn’t get anywhere near as loud as the A5/M50. To me, it seems like the HD 650 is a very hungry headphone... which is fine. Just underwhelmed by the Magni 3 when powering them... on high gain. I expected much more for sure. Maybe I should try another amp? I think something may be wrong with my amp if anyone thinks that the low gain can be deafening with the HD 650. Still though, the Magni 3 is clearly pumping more power into my M50 when I use those so it’s a little confusing.
> 
> My source is a X5 MkIII with Flac and Apple lossless. Line out volume maxed.



I would call Schiit technical assistance and see if you need to exchange amps.   There has to be something wrong with your Magni 3.  It should be able to drive your 650s to ear splitting levels  on low gain.  Mine never gets past 12 noon on low gain.


----------



## Jimster480

-ImageX said:


> Hey guys... I’m new here. I’ve always been very happy with Fiio amped M50s but decided to step it up to a Magni 3 and HD650. I am a little underwhelmed with that combo. I understand the HD650 is harder to drive because of the 300 ohms but the Magni 3 severely lacks the authority compared to Fiio A5/M50. It just BARELY beats out the A5 with the HD650. I’m slightly dumbfounded given it has so much more power. I want my HD650 driven loud and hard. Anyone have thoughts on what’s going on? Thanks for any info/advice/opinions. Nice resource you have all built here.




There is something wrong with your headphones or your magni or the line volume. 
Even with my Fulla 2, the output is so good / strong that none of my headphones are remotely quiet enough to listen to even 1cm past half on the volume POT.


----------



## -ImageX

Thanks for the replies. I’ll try to get a sound meter app and get a reading.


----------



## Jimster480

wilflare said:


> oh. I have my Philips Fidelio X1 hooked up to it as well...
> but was just wondering what's the best way to set this up to keep my AegoM speakers working...


Well if you are using it as a headphone amp then yes its a headphone amp.
But just using it as a pass-through makes no sense since it wouldn't be doing anything lol.


----------



## AudioBear

-ImageX said:


> Thanks for the replies. I’ll try to get a sound meter app and get a reading.



You don't need a sound level meter. One of two things is wrong.  Your line level input is set up wrong or is very low. Do you have the volume on the FiiO set to 100%? If the input level isn't low, then there is something wrong with your Magni 3.   The Magni 3 on low gain has enough power to blow your brains out.


----------



## Jimster480

AudioBear said:


> You don't need a sound level meter. One of two things is wrong.  Your line level input is set up wrong or is very low. Do you have the volume on the FiiO set to 100%? If the input level isn't low, then there is something wrong with your Magni 3.   The Magni 3 on low gain has enough power to blow your brains out.


^Basically this


----------



## Cdog

I received my Mimby/Magni 3 pair today. Just getting started, and I can't comment on which if either component is contributing most to the smile on my face. I'll spare the readers any pics of said smile. I know all about honeymoons and things may indeed change, but it's almost like some music is opening up new unheard layers.

For my ears however the most obvious difference between this pair and my Uber stack is more warmth in female vocals. Foobar flac files, 96/24 and standard redbook conversions. Using the closed back NAD HP50's for my initial listen. They're my most familiar.  Since I changed multiple components I know this is not a fair first impression of the 3. I'll mix in the Ubers later.

You should have seen me digging through the Magni 3 box for the already installed rubber feet.


----------



## -ImageX

AudioBear said:


> You don't need a sound level meter. One of two things is wrong.  Your line level input is set up wrong or is very low. Do you have the volume on the FiiO set to 100%? If the input level isn't low, then there is something wrong with your Magni 3.   The Magni 3 on low gain has enough power to blow your brains out.



Line level is maxed. It seems to me that there is something wrong with the Magni BUT I can clearly tell it’s pumping more power(over the A5) into my M50s. That confuses me. The volume of the Magni/HD650 is well below half of that the A5/M50.


----------



## hikaru12

Can anyone test the M3 with the AKG 712s? Curious how they pair since the M3 is described as neutral/warm which basically describes the sound signature of the 712s.


----------



## AudioBear

Yes pre-installe


-ImageX said:


> Line level is maxed. It seems to me that there is something wrong with the Magni BUT I can clearly tell it’s pumping more power(over the A5) into my M50s. That confuses me. The volume of the Magni/HD650 is well below half of that the A5/M50.



Do you have another source like another DAP or iphone or android phone or anything you can plug into the Magni 3?  What you want is the simplist possible system.  Player to Magni 3 to your HD650s.  Come back and let us know how that works out.


----------



## wingsounds13

I'm trying to figure this out.  Are you saying that the Magni won't blow your brains out even if you crank the knob all the way around?  If that's true, then there really is something wrong, but we still need to figure out what and where.  

J.P. 



-ImageX said:


> The Magni 3/ HD650 doesn’t get anywhere near as loud as the A5/M50. To me, it seems like the HD 650 is a very hungry headphone... which is fine. Just underwhelmed by the Magni 3 when powering them... on high gain. I expected much more for sure. Maybe I should try another amp? I think something may be wrong with my amp if anyone thinks that the low gain can be deafening with the HD 650. Still though, the Magni 3 is clearly pumping more power into my M50 when I use those so it’s a little confusing.
> 
> My source is a X5 MkIII with Flac and Apple lossless. Line out volume maxed.


----------



## -ImageX (Oct 3, 2017)

AudioBear said:


> Yes pre-installe
> 
> 
> Do you have another source like another DAP or iphone or android phone or anything you can plug into the Magni 3?  What you want is the simplist possible system.  Player to Magni 3 to your HD650s.  Come back and let us know how that works out.



I just tried my laptop and it’s the same.

For those getting deafening sound with HD 650... can you “feel” the bass on your head? Like physical vibration? My M50/A5 will pound your skull if you go too loud. The Magni/HD 650 combo has no such authority at max volume on high gain. Not even close.



wingsounds13 said:


> I'm trying to figure this out.  Are you saying that the Magni won't blow your brains out even if you crank the knob all the way around?  If that's true, then there really is something wrong, but we still need to figure out what and where.
> 
> J.P.



Yeah.


----------



## AudioBear

Okay, you’ve just proved there’s something wrong with either the Magni 3 or the cable you’re using to connect it.  Out of my laptop ghr Magni 3 on low gain is deafening T 10 or 11 o’clock.

Call Schiit and ask for help, an exchange, a repair or a return.  What you describe is just not Magni 3.


----------



## -ImageX

wingsounds13 said:


> I'm trying to figure this out.  Are you saying that the Magni won't blow your brains out even if you crank the knob all the way around?  If that's true, then there really is something wrong, but we still need to figure out what and where.
> 
> J.P.



Yeah. 


AudioBear said:


> Okay, you’ve just proved there’s something wrong with either the Magni 3 or the cable you’re using to connect it.  Out of my laptop ghr Magni 3 on low gain is deafening T 10 or 11 o’clock.
> 
> Call Schiit and ask for help, an exchange, a repair or a return.  What you describe is just not Magni 3.



I’ve tried three different line cables... with same result. I think you’re right. I may need Schiit to check it out. I did email them three days ago but haven’t heard anything back yet.


----------



## Astral Abyss

-ImageX said:


> Line level is maxed. It seems to me that there is something wrong with the Magni BUT I can clearly tell it’s pumping more power(over the A5) into my M50s. That confuses me. The volume of the Magni/HD650 is well below half of that the A5/M50.



This doesn't make sense.  On my X5, you select either Line Out or Coax.  There's no volume setting for Line Out.  Sounds like you're using the headphone output on the X5?  If so, that is not the correct way to connect it to the Magni.  You should be using the LO jack.


----------



## DavidA

-ImageX said:


> Yeah.
> 
> 
> I’ve tried three different line cables... with same result. I think you’re right. I may need Schiit to check it out. I did email them three days ago but haven’t heard anything back yet.


Does your M50 get really loud with the Magni3?  If it does then it could be the cable for the HD650 that is the problem.  Does the A5 get the HD650 really loud?


----------



## wingsounds13

Okay, so if the HD650 will get loud straight out of the X5 and really loud out of the A5, but not as loud out of the Magni, then I would say that the Magni has a problem.  Just as a last wild assed guess, you are plugging the input cables into the Line In of the Magni and not into the Line Out, right?  

J.P.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

-ImageX said:


> For those getting deafening sound with HD 650... can you “feel” the bass on your head?



There's bass for sure, but 650s are mid centric headphones.  M50s are bass bloated cans with terrible clarity from my experience.


----------



## -ImageX (Oct 3, 2017)

Astral Abyss said:


> This doesn't make sense.  On my X5, you select either Line Out or Coax.  There's no volume setting for Line Out.  Sounds like you're using the headphone output on the X5?  If so, that is not the correct way to connect it to the Magni.  You should be using the LO jack.



The X5 MkIII has an adjustable line out volume option. Max line out volume would be the same as having that option turned off.



DavidA said:


> Does your M50 get really loud with the Magni3?  If it does then it could be the cable for the HD650 that is the problem.  Does the A5 get the HD650 really loud?


Yes, they do. That’s what confuses me. The Magni is clearly pumping more power than the A5 with the M50s


wingsounds13 said:


> Okay, so if the HD650 will get loud straight out of the X5 and really loud out of the A5, but not as loud out of the Magni, then I would say that the Magni has a problem.  Just as a last wild assed guess, you are plugging the input cables into the Line In of the Magni and not into the Line Out, right?
> 
> J.P.


The HD 650s do not get really loud with A5. Ok... but not loud or deafening with either amp... that’s for sure. The Magni just barely beats the A5 with the HD650. Yes, source line out to amp line in.


----------



## GearMe

Got these numbers below from a couple different sites on the web.  If they're true, it explains some of it.

HD650 - 103 dB at 1 V
M50 - 113 dB at 1 V

That said, I plugged my HD650's into the Magni 3 (fed by iFi iDac) and they've got enough power even on Lo Gain -- more than loud enough between 2 and 3 on the dial.  Hi Gain is around 10:30 to 11:30

SO...had to pull out the ole M50's; Lo Gain -- more than loud enough between 10 and 11 on the dial.  Hi Gain is between 7:30 to 8:30

Think you're looking for something out of the HD650's they're not really designed to do...


----------



## FromPorlock

RiflemanFirst said:


> I personally use high gain with the HD650. I've read that some people here are using low gain with their HD650/6XX, but I guess I'm deaf or something. All my other headphones use low gain.



Same here.  I find the M3 sounds quiet even on high gain with the 650s, maybe even more so then the M2U.  But it sounds a lot better in terms of detail.  On my Grado 225 I can use low gain no problem, just gotta crank it for the 650s.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

GearMe said:


> That said, I plugged my HD650's into the Magni 3 (fed by iFi iDac) and they've got enough power even on Lo Gain -- more than loud enough between 2 and 3 on the dial.  Hi Gain is around 10:30 to 11:30



That's exactly where I've been setting the volume with my HD650s as well.


----------



## Astral Abyss

You guys must not have a lot of hearing left.  That is seriously loud.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

Astral Abyss said:


> You guys must not have a lot of hearing left.  That is seriously loud.



I do have a bit of hearing loss and tinnitus among other things due to time in the military, so there's that... At least the VA pays me for it!


----------



## MtnMan307

I don't go above 7-8 o'clock on high gain and less than 9 on low gain with a Vali 2 and 650s or K7xx.  I was a combat tank soldier back in the day and like to hunt/shoot guns, so my hearing must be pretty good.


----------



## HipHopScribe

-ImageX said:


> I just tried my laptop and it’s the same.
> 
> For those getting deafening sound with HD 650... can you “feel” the bass on your head? Like physical vibration? My M50/A5 will pound your skull if you go too loud. The Magni/HD 650 combo has no such authority at max volume on high gain. Not even close.
> 
> ...



You're comparing open dynamic headphones to closed headphones. You're never gonna get the same bass feeling for the reason of simple physics


----------



## AudioBear

GearMe said:


> Got these numbers below from a couple different sites on the web.  If they're true, it explains some of it.
> 
> HD650 - 103 dB at 1 V
> M50 - 113 dB at 1 V
> ...



@GearMe 

As so often happens, quoted numbers for efficiency vary all over the place.  I got some very different numbers than you did but totally agree with the conclusion from your own testing.  That's the best way to decide what the Magni 3 can drive.  You plug it in and try it.  

FWIW,  I went to the Innerfidelity Headphone Resource with pretty good confidence that Tyll knows how to measure a headphone.  Here's what I found:

Sennheiser HD650:  Volts for 90 dB SPL is 0.205 Vms and Power is 0.13 mW for 90 dB
AT M50                  :  Volts for 90 dB SPL is 0.073 Vms and Power is 0.13 mW for 90 dB (yes both phones require the same power for90 dB SPL that is not a typo)

(AT rates the M50 as 99dB/mW at 1KHz)

Basically these are different numbers but they agree that the M50 is more efficient than the HD650. But not my all that much. More importantly, the Magni 3 can produce 230mW at 600ohms!  That's way more than is needed to produce dangerously high sound levels over 100dB SPL according to the specs above.   Check out:  http://dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/

Listening at over 85-90dB is just going to lead to further hearing loss.  The EU limits volumes on iPhones etc to 100 dB and many people defeat that limit which IMHO is totally insane.

To go bad to the problem of "low output" on Magni 3, either the headphones have a problem or the Magni 3 has a problem.  If I were going to make a guess it would be that the HD650s are not working right or they are making a bad connection somewhere.  We can't do anything about ImageX's hearing but that may be a problem too.


----------



## -ImageX

I’m fairly new to the audiophile world but fully understand that I’m comparing a lower ohm closed back to a high ohm open back. I expected there to be at least a little punch with the Magni 3 and HD 650. I may have some hearing loss but I can still plainly hear the A5/M50 rocking my face off with gobs of authority and dangerous volume. My Magni 3 and HD 650 doesn’t come anywhere close(when it should) and is a big disappointment to me.


----------



## decodm

-ImageX said:


> I’m fairly new to the audiophile world but fully understand that I’m comparing a lower ohm closed back to a high ohm open back. I expected there to be at least a little punch with the Magni 3 and HD 650. I may have some hearing loss but I can still plainly hear the A5/M50 rocking my face off with gobs of authority and dangerous volume. My Magni 3 and HD 650 doesn’t come anywhere close(when it should) and is a big disappointment to me.



That's quite odd. My HD650s have a lot of punch on low gain with my Magni 2 Uber, which supposedly has _less_ power than Magni 3...


----------



## JoeKickass

Sounds like a good use case for the Loki!


----------



## AudioBear (Oct 3, 2017)

-ImageX said:


> I’m fairly new to the audiophile world but fully understand that I’m comparing a lower ohm closed back to a high ohm open back. I expected there to be at least a little punch with the Magni 3 and HD 650. I may have some hearing loss but I can still plainly hear the A5/M50 rocking my face off with gobs of authority and dangerous volume. My Magni 3 and HD 650 doesn’t come anywhere close(when it should) and is a big disappointment to me.



I don't think you're getting the message here.  It's not right!  Yes open backs never have the pressure and feel of closed backs but you should be feeling plenty of oomph.  There ls something wrong with your Magni 3 or you HD650s.  If the 650s knock your socks off on any other system then it's the Magni 3.

We have spent pages on your problem.  You state you e-mailed Schiit 3 days ago and have heard nothing back.  @Jason Stoddard says that they man the e-mail desk pretty religiously.  You might try again or make a phone call.  They have an 800 number so it's free.  They will give you lots of help once you connect.  The first thing they will tell you is probably going to be that a Magni 3 should be able to play your 650s so loud you'll cry.  Good luck with your Schiit.


----------



## Jimster480

AudioBear said:


> I don't think you're getting the message here.  It's not right!  Yes open backs never have the pressure and feel of open backs but you should be feeling plenty of oomph.  There ls something wrong with your Magni 3 or you HD650s.  If the 650s knock your socks off on any other system then it's the Magni 3.
> 
> We have spent pages on your problem.  You state you e-mailed Schiit 3 days ago and have heard nothing back.  @Jason Stoddard says that they man the e-mail desk pretty religiously.  You might try again or make a phone call.  They have an 800 number so it's free.  They will give you lots of help once you connect.  The first thing they will tell you is probably going to be that a Magni 3 should be able to play your 650s so loud you'll cry.  Good luck with your Schiit.


Basically this!
Amen


----------



## HipHopScribe (Oct 3, 2017)

-ImageX said:


> I’m fairly new to the audiophile world but fully understand that I’m comparing a lower ohm closed back to a high ohm open back. I expected there to be at least a little punch with the Magni 3 and HD 650. I may have some hearing loss but I can still plainly hear the A5/M50 rocking my face off with gobs of authority and dangerous volume. My Magni 3 and HD 650 doesn’t come anywhere close(when it should) and is a big disappointment to me.



There may well be an issue with your Magni 3 or some other part of your audio chain as AudioBear is indicating, or your hearing loss is pretty profound. Getting the 650s dangerously loud should be no issue.

But I'm also not sure that you really understand the different characteristics of the headphones you're comparing. Closed headphones can have more impact because the sound is resonating in a sealed chamber, giving it much more physical force as those sound waves are reflected back toward your ears. Beyond that the M50s specifically are tuned for higher than normal bass quantity. You're never gonna get that same feeling from HD650s because they're open dynamic headphones, so the sound waves are escaping out into open air rather than bouncing back into your ears, and they were never designed to exaggerate bass in the same way. To my memory M50s are also very V-shaped, meaning the highs are also exaggerated (and harsh in my opinion), while the HD650s are mid-centric, with a smooth roll-off in the highs. So again, they are not gonna have "exciting" hot treble in the way the M50s do.

So outside of any issue with the Magni 3, you also apparently bought the wrong headphones for your tastes or you just need to take time to adjust and appreciate the different presentation of the 650s. They are never gonna sound like the M50s and they shouldn't


----------



## Zbell (Oct 3, 2017)

-ImageX said:


> I’m fairly new to the audiophile world but fully understand that I’m comparing a lower ohm closed back to a high ohm open back. I expected there to be at least a little punch with the Magni 3 and HD 650. I may have some hearing loss but I can still plainly hear the A5/M50 rocking my face off with gobs of authority and dangerous volume. My Magni 3 and HD 650 doesn’t come anywhere close(when it should) and is a big disappointment to me.



It also might be that the HD650's are just not your cup of tea.  The slam on the HD650 is never going to feel like the slam on your M50's regardless of volume.  They both present music very differently and where the HD650's excel in depth, soundstage, accuracy, tone, and clarity, the M50's excel in bass, visceral impact, and a more V-shaped fun sound.  Honestly if you love the M50s and like them more than the HD650's, I would recommend getting some Fostex TH-X00's or Emu Teaks.  These headphones are closed(ish) and will have that V-shaped sound and tonnnnns of bass and impact, while being a huge step up in clarity, soundstage, and quality.  Just my 2 cents.

Also, as others have said, it could just be a hardware issue.

Hope this helps.


----------



## AudioBear

The last couple of posts are on the right track. These are two very different headphones.  They are not, however, all that different in efficiency and 90dB SPL should cause the same apparent loudness on any headphone--and do as much damage in 2 hrs.  The previous posters are, however, totally on target about the pressure created by sealed phones making you feel the bass more than open phones in spite of the sound pressure level being the same at the MIC.


----------



## -ImageX

I know that they are two very different headphones and the M50s are a more “exciting” headphone that’s also far easier to drive. I knew this going in and knew I’d probably have to pick up a Magni when I purchased the HD 650. They sound good... they just lack punch and volume. There isn’t the slightest bit of physical “vibration” on my head when I know there should be.... not that that’s some kind of attribute or anything. Just a clue that they’re under driven. I appreciate all the replies. I put in a support ticket with Schiit and directed them to Page 24 of this thread and will go from there. I’ll report back on what the problem is/was if there is one. Thanks again and sorry to take up pages on the issue.


----------



## HipHopScribe

-ImageX said:


> I know that they are two very different headphones and the M50s are a more “exciting” headphone that’s also far easier to drive. I knew this going in and knew I’d probably have to pick up a Magni when I purchased the HD 650. They sound good... they just lack punch and volume. There isn’t the slightest bit of physical “vibration” on my head when I know there should be.... not that that’s some kind of attribute or anything. Just a clue that they’re under driven. I appreciate all the replies. I put in a support ticket with Schiit and directed them to Page 24 of this thread and will go from there. I’ll report back on what the problem is/was if there is one. Thanks again and sorry to take up pages on the issue.



But see, when you say that you should feel more "physical vibration" on your head, I think you're talking about bass resonating, so I think you might still be missing the point that the 650s simply will never give you the same feeling as a bass-heavy closed headphone and you shouldn't be expecting them to. Anyway, I wish you luck on getting your issue resolved.


----------



## -ImageX (Oct 3, 2017)

Just meant as a sign of headphone being driven with authority. I know even pads alone(on the M50) can drastically make a difference on felt bass/impact. Basically, I assume you all “feel” those 650s on your head when playing loud.... whereas I don’t. Hearing loss would have zero affect on the physical vibration. If one was 100% deaf, they would still feel them playing on their head. Not mine though. I feel they are under driven with the Magni 3 and that something is wrong somewhere. I should be able to feel them if just barely and I shouldn’t be able to play them full volume on high gain for hours and hours and wish I had 2-3 times the volume. It certainly isn’t like that with the A5/M50 because they would damage my hearing.

I also want to add that this is my 2nd pair of 650s. The first pair lasted one listening session and the next day the right channel went out completely. It came back intermittently with a right side unplug/replug but then stopped working (with numerous different line cables). I could hardly believe that happened with such a quality headphone. Before that happened.... they sounded the same as my replacement pair. Both purchased from Adorama. Was definitely the headphones and not equipment/line cable related. This was before my Schiit arrived.


----------



## Zbell

-ImageX said:


> Just meant as a sign of headphone being driven with authority. I know even pads alone(on the M50) can drastically make a difference on felt bass/impact. Basically, I assume you all “feel” those 650s on your head when playing loud.... whereas I don’t. Hearing loss would have zero affect on the physical vibration. If one was 100% deaf, they would still feel them playing on their head. Not mine though. I feel they are under driven with the Magni 3 and that something is wrong somewhere. I should be able to feel them if just barely and I shouldn’t be able to play them full volume on high gain for hours and hours and wish I had 2-3 times the volume. It certainly isn’t like that with the A5/M50 because they would damage my hearing.



High Gain and maxed out you're totally right, there's something wrong with either the amp or the cans.


----------



## GearMe

JVC SZ2000s, V-Moda M100s, Fostex TH series, etc. will give you the basshead vibration when amped right.  

Never gonna get that from HD650s...you'll blow them up first.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser (Oct 6, 2017)

If the Magni 3 is at max volume while on high gain something is defiantly wrong!


----------



## Astral Abyss




----------



## -ImageX

I’m going to get it figured out. I know Schiit has a great reputation and makes excellent gear from all my research. I appreciate all the help and recommendations. I’m just getting started down this rabbitt hole of a hobby!


----------



## AudioBear

The hobby is a rabbit hole for sure.  It's going to be tough on your wallet.  I can understand not wanting to accept that there's something wrong with the Magni 3 if it's trying to play for you. As others have said, the 650 isn't going to give you the bass impact of a closed phone.  What you have described is something different.  There's no way you could tolerate full volume on high gain unless something is wrong with the amp or you have some kind of super powers to endure pain.  Hope they are able to work it out for you.  The 650 or the Magni 3 may not be your cup of tea but that's part of the hobby too. $$$ $$$$ $$$$$$.


----------



## Beau Cauchemar

Can we please get back on topic with more feedback on the Magni 3's sound and synergy with various headphones? Not to be rude, but this endless conjecture of a newbie being disappointed that his 650s don't sound more like his M50s has been beaten to death.


----------



## -ImageX

Beau Cauchemar said:


> Can we please get back on topic with more feedback on the Magni 3's sound and synergy with various headphones? Not to be rude, but this endless conjecture of a newbie being disappointed that his 650s don't sound more like his M50s has been beaten to death.



Not to be rude, but if you paid closer attention you would know that this is about my issues and my Magni 3 impression. It has nothing to do with headphone comparisons or me supposedly wanting the 650 to sound like an M50.


----------



## Jimster480

-ImageX said:


> Not to be rude, but if you paid closer attention you would know that this is about my issues and my Magni 3 impression. It has nothing to do with headphone comparisons or me supposedly wanting the 650 to sound like an M50.


But it does have to do with you claiming that the Magni 3 cannot drive your HD650's.
Meaning that there is a problem with your source or your Magni 3.


----------



## 370640 (Oct 4, 2017)

Is now a bad time to ask for opinions on active powered 2.0 speakers to pair with a Magni 3 + Modi 3 (hopefully announced soon) stack...

They'll be used for a near-field desktop listening and I've read lots of reviews for speakers which exhibit hums, hisses, and buzzes for active class A/B and class D amps, which I'm trying to avoid. I can hopefully sort ground issues, noise floor issues and wifi interference, but inherent amp white noise with no input, purely just powered on, isn't something I'd ideally notice. My choices so far are...

- Presonus Eris 4.5 (white noise more common it seems, maybe due to these speakers themselves more common and so more reports?)
- M-Audio BX5 D3 (recently released, D2 gets greats reviews)
- Mackie MR5 Mk3 (the CR models look to be multimedia based, cheaper and so possibly inferior?)

I'm open to suggestions, budget £200. Appreciate this isn't the ideal thread but there's some commonality with the idea of powering them off a new Schiit stack and accompanying them with HD650s.

Thanks


----------



## decodm

me


370640 said:


> Is now a bad time to ask for opinions on active powered 2.0 speakers to pair with a Magni 3 + Modi 3 (hopefully announced soon) stack...
> 
> They'll be used for a near-field desktop listening and I've read lots of reviews for speakers which exhibit hums, hisses, and buzzes for active class A/B and class D amps, which I'm trying to avoid. I can hopefully sort ground issues, noise floor issues and wifi intermittence, but inherent amp white noise with no input, purely just powered on, isn't something I'd ideally notice. My choices so far are...
> 
> ...



 I’ve been using an “old” stack (Modi 2 Uber + Magni 2 Uber) with powered speakers, and I haven’t run into any problems. (My speakers are a bit more lower end than the ones you have in mind). I don’t think you have any reason to worry)


----------



## Zbell

370640 said:


> Is now a bad time to ask for opinions on active powered 2.0 speakers to pair with a Magni 3 + Modi 3 (hopefully announced soon) stack...
> 
> They'll be used for a near-field desktop listening and I've read lots of reviews for speakers which exhibit hums, hisses, and buzzes for active class A/B and class D amps, which I'm trying to avoid. I can hopefully sort ground issues, noise floor issues and wifi intermittence, but inherent amp white noise with no input, purely just powered on, isn't something I'd ideally notice. My choices so far are...
> 
> ...



I've been looking for a pair of powered speakers to replace my old (but amazing) Energy RC-10s.  I'm waiting until Black Friday to hopefully pick up some Audioengine HD3s for a good price.  From what I've read they're a great value and bluetooth would be fun and easy with the Magni 3, especially since my gf always complains about how "complicated" it is to play music out of my current system.  Although I would never use the headphone out on the HD3 and personally think that's a total waste and unnecessary feature.


----------



## Tuneslover

wingsounds13 said:


> I'm trying to figure this out.  Are you saying that the Magni won't blow your brains out even if you crank the knob all the way around?  If that's true, then there really is something wrong, but we still need to figure out what and where.
> 
> J.P.



Maybe there's something up with


Astral Abyss said:


> You guys must not have a lot of hearing left.  That is seriously loud.



Huh, what?


----------



## Tuneslover

-ImageX said:


> I’m going to get it figured out. I know Schiit has a great reputation and makes excellent gear from all my research. I appreciate all the help and recommendations. I’m just getting started down this rabbitt hole of a hobby!



Order another Magni 3 to see if your first Magni 3 is defective.


----------



## AudioBear (Oct 3, 2017)

370640 said:


> Is now a bad time to ask for opinions on active powered 2.0 speakers to pair with a Magni 3 + Modi 3 (hopefully announced soon) stack...
> 
> They'll be used for a near-field desktop listening and I've read lots of reviews for speakers which exhibit hums, hisses, and buzzes for active class A/B and class D amps, which I'm trying to avoid. I can hopefully sort ground issues, noise floor issues and wifi intermittence, but inherent amp white noise with no input, purely just powered on, isn't something I'd ideally notice. My choices so far are...
> 
> ...



This is the right place to ask people's impressions of Magni  3 driving active speakers.  At the risk of being branded a heretic and burned at the stake, I use Magni 3 to drive a pair of desktop Emotive Airmotiv 4S speakers.  They may be class D, I do not know and I did not care because I figured "hey, what the heck, these are just desktop speakers."  I usually listen to headphones anyway.  To my very pleasant surprise the Airmotivs sound great.  I think the folded ribbon tweeter has a lot to do with how good they sound. Having an active crossover and bi-amping also helps.  They are out of production so I am not touting you on the Airmotivs, just saying that Magni 3 makes them sound spectacular and worth much more than the $299 a pair they sold for--coincidentally just about your budget.  I would advise not to discard any technology in this price range out of hand with giving it a hear first. It's relatively easy to make a great sounding pair of speakers for £2000.  The trick is doing it for £200.  My last listen to the M-Audio B5 brief and a year ago but I liked it and thought it was a good buy.  Magni 3 would probably do well with it.

EDIT:  I bought the Airmotivs over the M-Audio, however.


----------



## Mkoll

Just got the Magni 3 today. This has got to be one of the best bang for your buck audiophile purchases. It just sounds outstanding and is a clear, though not enormous, upgrade over the amp in the iDSD BL. I used a dBa meter to match the volumes and did some A/Bing. There is better separation, detail, impact, soundstage...really every category of the sound is improved.

Running Tidal -> iDSD BL -> Magni -> Aeon


----------



## Tuneslover

370640 said:


> Is now a bad time to ask for opinions on active powered 2.0 speakers to pair with a Magni 3 + Modi 3 (hopefully announced soon) stack...



All these references to a Modi 3...am I missing something?  I'm planning on buying another DAC and I'm leaning toward another Modi MB but if there's another Modi update on the horizon I think I'll hold off.  Please enlighten me.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Tuneslover said:


> All these references to a Modi 3...am I missing something?  I'm planning on buying another DAC and I'm leaning toward another Modi MB but if there's another Modi update on the horizon I think I'll hold off.  Please enlighten me.



It's a lot of wishful thinking.


----------



## AudioBear

Astral Abyss said:


> It's a lot of wishful thinking.



I think you have that right.   At first it appeared that Modi was too small to be made multi-bit, but Mike found a way to do it.  The processor has been updated too.  What exactly could they do to make version 3?  For a base price of $99 it's a hell of a steal.


----------



## Alcophone

AudioBear said:


> I think you have that right.   At first it appeared that Modi was too small to be made multi-bit, but Mike found a way to do it.  The processor has been updated too.  What exactly could they do to make version 3?  For a base price of $99 it's a hell of a steal.


Balanced?


----------



## AudioBear

Why?  Just what do you think balanced will do except add cost and size?


----------



## Alcophone

AudioBear said:


> Why?  Just what do you think balanced will do except add cost and size?


Balanced would make more sense in the Jotunheim/Bifrost format (balanced multibit), I suppose.
I don't really care about the Modi 2, but a Modi 2 Multibit with the AD5781BRUZ from the Gungnir would be killer, or simply a cheaper Modi Multibit. Not saying it's not great value as it is, but $250 for Magni 3 + Modi 2 Multibit is an easier decision than $250 for the Modi Multibit alone (at that price point, I'd rather save and go big than get something I know I will want to upgrade soon after).
A single-ended Yggi would also be interesting.


----------



## AudioBear

Alcophone said:


> Balanced would make more sense in the Jotunheim/Bifrost format (balanced multibit), I suppose.
> I don't really care about the Modi 2, but a Modi 2 Multibit with the AD5781BRUZ from the Gungnir would be killer, or simply a cheaper Modi Multibit. Not saying it's not great value as it is, but $250 for Magni 3 + Modi 2 Multibit is an easier decision than $250 for the Modi Multibit alone (at that price point, I'd rather save and go big than get something I know I will want to upgrade soon after).
> A single-ended Yggi would also be interesting.



I think you got the point.  A Modi  balanced would beca Bifrost in size and cost.  Balanced doesn’t automatically mean a piece of kit sounds better. Having a fancy chip doesn’t either.  A Modi 2/magni 3 combo is already very good.


----------



## Alcophone

AudioBear said:


> I think you got the point.  A Modi  balanced would beca Bifrost in size and cost.  Balanced doesn’t automatically mean a piece of kit sounds better. Having a fancy chip doesn’t either.  A Modi 2/magni 3 combo is already very good.



I suppose a Modi 2/Magni 2 combo is also very good, yet Schiit managed to improve upon it. The Magni 3 was supposed to be an Asgard 3, but turned out to be pretty small. Jotunheim is a $400 balanced headphone amp that currently needs a $1249 Gungnir to get a balanced multibit DAC as its source, which also has a different form factor. Understandable, but not ideal. And if Schiit decided to release a Bifrost 2 Multibit with the Gungnir's chip, I'd be surprised if it didn't also sound better. Cause that's what they do.

Anyway, just brainstorming. The Gungnir non-multibit is still using the AK4399 instead of the AK4490 of the Bifrost. It would probably be easy to do an upgrade, but... they haven't been doing that. The Jotunheim has a balanced AK4490-based DAC module available for just $100, so a standalone balanced DAC based on the AK4490 (with additional digital inputs) might not need to be Gungnir-sized. So maybe they are trying to shrink the multibit version of it, too, and that'll be the next thing. Who knows 

I'd already be excited about a Ragnarok with a remote, or a Freya with two pairs of balanced outs (especially with one of them not volume controlled, to use with a balanced headphone amp), or Gungnir/Yggi with two balanced outs, or a SYS with a remote.


----------



## AudioBear (Oct 4, 2017)

Brainstorming is good!  I like the last paragraph.  Maybe Schiit will get their Schiit together on some of it.

Edit:  Schiit’s biggest challenge is they won’t build anything that doesn’t add value.  It has to be a real improvement in quality or price or both.  They also won’t build me too products.  This limits playing around too much with the existing line-up because it is already very good.  It will be interesting to see what they come up with next.  Loki Maxi would work for me.  As would more ins and outs on a pre-amp.


----------



## hikaru12 (Oct 4, 2017)

Alcophone said:


> Balanced would make more sense in the Jotunheim/Bifrost format (balanced multibit), I suppose.
> I don't really care about the Modi 2, but a Modi 2 Multibit with the AD5781BRUZ from the Gungnir would be killer, or simply a cheaper Modi Multibit. Not saying it's not great value as it is, but $250 for Magni 3 + Modi 2 Multibit is an easier decision than $250 for the Modi Multibit alone (at that price point, I'd rather save and go big than get something I know I will want to upgrade soon after).
> A single-ended Yggi would also be interesting.



All balanced does is add more volume and maybe a bit more clarity at the top end. There's a paper floating around that states SE is probably better than balanced. I'll have to do some digging to find it again. You could do it for about $1k. The DacMagic Plus is async. And balanced (not multibit as far as I know) for $400 and another $400 for the Jot.

Paper link: 
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better


----------



## Alcophone

AudioBear said:


> Schiit’s biggest challenge is they won’t build anything that doesn’t add value.  It has to be a real improvement in quality or price or both.


True, though they have made silent improvements without bumping the version number, like the improved remote for Saga/Freya. Something like an additional balanced out on their DACs might be small enough to do that, too. I don't know how challenging that is from an engineering point of view, but I don't like that with balanced splitters all connected devices should be on.
I'm tempted to revise my preference for a second balanced out on Freya to not be volume controlled - Freya's volume control should be superior to that of Mjolnir 2's, and it has a remote, so that might be the better way to go.


----------



## Alcophone

hikaru12 said:


> All balanced does is add more volume and maybe a bit more clarity at the top end. There's a paper floating around that states SE is probably better than balanced. I'll have to do some digging to find it again.


I have never owned balanced gear, so I'm not in a position to make any claims about its merits. For now all I can say is that if I had a balanced amp, I'd prefer a balanced source, too. And I want the highest resolving DAC, but that happens to be Yggy, which is balanced, so it would be a shame to not make use of that.
With a single-ended Yggi on the other hand I'd be less hesitant to make everything else single ended, too. Especially for a secondary system. It would cost less because it uses fewer components, and might even be small enough for a Gungnir-sized chassis, which should reduce the cost even further.



hikaru12 said:


> You could do it for about $1k. The DacMagic Plus is async. And balanced (not multibit as far as I know) for $400 and another $400 for the Jot.


Oh yeah, I was only looking at Schiit's products and multibit DACs.


----------



## Alcophone

hikaru12 said:


> There's a paper floating around that states SE is probably better than balanced. [...] Paper link:
> https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better



Hm. The article doesn't mention cross talk due to the shared ground in single-ended headphone cables. I'm not an electrical engineer, so I could easily be wrong, but I'm not sure the noise doubles as claimed. Each channel still only gets the noise of one amp, despite their being two amps. And as admitted, the output level is inherently higher, so maybe you need to amplify the input only half as much as single-ended, and so you amplify noise less input noise, too? Or maybe it's a wash, but not worse. I lack the credentials to debunk these claims, but I'm not convinced either.
A company trying to convince me that I don't need a feature they are lacking is also not exactly an unbiased source. Smoking doesn't cause cancer, says Dr. Marlboro.


----------



## AudioBear

The guy who wrote that, and the people who approved it, are electrical engineers and equipment designers.

Electronics are tested and the crosstalk specification is  published.  SE is no worse than Balanced all else being equal.

Their consumer equipment doesn’t have balanced as a design choice because it adds cost and complexity with no benefits.  They are the ones who are being honest here.


Yes, at least you recognize that you lack the credentials to question the article.  Fact is Benchmark makes very solid gear that is very highly regarded.  Think about what their designers are saying.


----------



## DavidA

Where are the "off topic" police now, LOL


----------



## Alcophone

AudioBear said:


> Electronics are tested and the crosstalk specification is  published.  SE is no worse than Balanced all else being equal.


I meant cross talk in the headphones, though, not in the components. And I only mention it because I've seen that listed as a supposed benefit of going balanced with headphones, which made sense to me. Haven't measured it, or tested it for myself.



AudioBear said:


> Yes, at least you recognize that you lack the credentials to question the article.  Fact is Benchmark makes very solid gear that is very highly regarded.  Think about what their designers are saying.


Anyone can question the article, but not everyone can prove it wrong (including me). I have no opinion about Benchmark or their products, though I have heard good things about them.
But you'll also find plenty smart, qualified people arguing that balanced is better, so we can't decide the matter by looking at resumes.


----------



## Jimster480

Alcophone said:


> I suppose a Modi 2/Magni 2 combo is also very good, yet Schiit managed to improve upon it. The Magni 3 was supposed to be an Asgard 3, but turned out to be pretty small. Jotunheim is a $400 balanced headphone amp that currently needs a $1249 Gungnir to get a balanced multibit DAC as its source, which also has a different form factor. Understandable, but not ideal. And if Schiit decided to release a Bifrost 2 Multibit with the Gungnir's chip, I'd be surprised if it didn't also sound better. Cause that's what they do.
> 
> Anyway, just brainstorming. The Gungnir non-multibit is still using the AK4399 instead of the AK4490 of the Bifrost. It would probably be easy to do an upgrade, but... they haven't been doing that. The Jotunheim has a balanced AK4490-based DAC module available for just $100, so a standalone balanced DAC based on the AK4490 (with additional digital inputs) might not need to be Gungnir-sized. So maybe they are trying to shrink the multibit version of it, too, and that'll be the next thing. Who knows
> 
> I'd already be excited about a Ragnarok with a remote, or a Freya with two pairs of balanced outs (especially with one of them not volume controlled, to use with a balanced headphone amp), or Gungnir/Yggi with two balanced outs, or a SYS with a remote.


Or just buy a Topping DX7 if you want a capable Multibit DAC/Amp for $400 or less.


----------



## Alcophone

Jimster480 said:


> Or just buy a Topping DX7 if you want a capable Multibit DAC/Amp for $400 or less.


Are you sure that is balanced? I could only find "dual ESS DACs", without saying which ESS DACs specifically, and that would be the first time I have heard of multibit ESS DACs. Unless you mean multibit delta-sigma, but that's not what I mean when I say multibit.


----------



## Jimster480

Alcophone said:


> Are you sure that is balanced? I could only find "dual ESS DACs", without saying which ESS DACs specifically, and that would be the first time I have heard of multibit ESS DACs. Unless you mean multibit delta-sigma, but that's not what I mean when I say multibit.


Where did you look?
Its dual ESS 9018Q2M and it is balanced. 
Yes its multibit DS, but I meant to say balanced and not multibit.


----------



## Alcophone

Jimster480 said:


> Where did you look?
> Its dual ESS 9018Q2M and it is balanced.
> Yes its multibit DS, but I meant to say balanced and not multibit.


Ah, okay. I looked on their website, Amazon and Massdrop. I can't find anything about a 9018Q2M on esstech.com, but there's the ES9018K2M, and there are lots of hits when searching for that and DX7. And a review on Head-Fi that mentions a possible future upgrade to the ES9038Q2M, which I also don't see on esstech.com.

Anyway, thanks for the tip! But for now I'm focused on pure multibit DACs, admittedly solely based on the hype. 
And my brainstorming was focused on the completeness of Schiit's lineup, obviously there are way more options when you look elsewhere.


----------



## Jimster480

Alcophone said:


> Ah, okay. I looked on their website, Amazon and Massdrop. I can't find anything about a 9018Q2M on esstech.com, but there's the ES9018K2M, and there are lots of hits when searching for that and DX7. And a review on Head-Fi that mentions a possible future upgrade to the ES9038Q2M, which I also don't see on esstech.com.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the tip! But for now I'm focused on pure multibit DACs, admittedly solely based on the hype.
> And my brainstorming was focused on the completeness of Schiit's lineup, obviously there are way more options when you look elsewhere.



Sorry I am tired its very late here, yes its 9018K2M. 
Also 9038Q2M is their newest mobile chip, its the mobile version of the ES9038PRO.


----------



## DavidA

While I was kidding in my previous post about going off topic at least @-ImageX  was talking about his issues with the HD650 and "Magni3" when you said he was going off topic but now there is no mention of the Magni3 by @Jimster480, @Alcophone, and @AudioBear, a double standard here?  Sorry if this offends anyone but I think @-ImageX should not have been criticized since he was still talking about his Magni3 while these last few post are clearly off topic.


----------



## GearMe

DavidA said:


> While I was kidding in my previous post about going off topic at least @-ImageX  was talking about his issues with the HD650 and "Magni3" when you said he was going off topic but now there is no mention of the Magni3 by @Jimster480, @Alcophone, and @AudioBear, a double standard here?  Sorry if this offends anyone but I think @-ImageX should not have been criticized since he was still talking about his Magni3 while these last few post are clearly off topic.



Yep...a Head-Fi tradition!

OT is OK if I like what you're talking about; otherwise whine and then report to the moderator.

It's like those kids we knew in grade school that we're always tattling to the teacher.


----------



## DavidA

GearMe said:


> Yep...a Head-Fi tradition!
> 
> OT is OK if I like what you're talking about; otherwise whine and then report to the moderator.
> 
> It's like those kids we knew in grade school that we're always tattling to the teacher.


Thanks for the "tattling" laugh and its not limited to grade school since I've seen this in the work place also, LOL

FWIW I'm still considering recommending the Magni3 to a friend who is looking for a decent amp and didn't want to wait 5 months for the LC-X but I think the Polaris might be a better suited amp for my friend due to the various headphones she has.


----------



## Beau Cauchemar (Oct 4, 2017)

To clarify, most of us have no problem meandering off the original trail for the sake of fleshing out possible related solutions.

What I was merely commenting on was how this thread had gone on for multiple pages regarding the Magni 3 not being loud enough for one person on one set of cans. How many times can you say “call tech support if you determine it’s not the headphones” as we all know the Magni 3 is loud enough to damage most (if not all) drivers. Either that or “make an appointment with a hearing specialist.” I couldn’t have been the only one annoyed by this as many of us subscribe to hear more sonic impressions and pairings.

Sure, I haven’t contributed much of anything, but I just felt like it needed to be pointed out. Let’s not lose perspective here and keep the discussion interesting/productive. *gets back into fake moderators police car and speeds off into the distance aware that people might laugh/disagree*


----------



## DavidA

Beau Cauchemar said:


> To clarify, most of us have no problem meandering off the original trail for the sake of fleshing out possible related solutions.
> 
> What I was merely commenting on was how this thread had gone on for multiple pages regarding the Magni 3 not being loud enough for one person on one set of cans. How many times can you say “call tech support if you determine it’s not the headphones” as we all know the Magni 3 is loud enough to damage most (if not all) drivers. Either that or “make an appointment with a hearing specialist.” I couldn’t have been the only one annoyed by this as many of us subscribe to hear more sonic impressions and pairings.
> 
> Sure, I haven’t contributed much of anything, but I just felt like it needed to be pointed out. Let’s not lose perspective here and keep the discussion interesting/productive. *gets back into fake moderators police car and speeds off into the distance aware that people might laugh/disagree*


This is what I was referring to as a double standard, you criticize one poster since he is a noob (it was getting a little annoying to me also but i didn't feel it needed to be said so I sent a PM) but its still okay to go off topic since you find it interesting to "flesh out possible related solutions" to what exactly?  I don't want to be or pretend to a moderator which is what you were doing, I just pointed out the irony and then it started to go even further off topic as we are doing again here. 

Maybe I'm wrong here and apologize to those that think I'm off base here but as @GearMe noted its "like a tradition"


----------



## 370640

Zbell said:


> hopefully pick up some Audioengine HD3s


Thanks - AudioEngine come across as "lifestyle" speakers, often overpriced compared to studio monitors with less bells and whistles e.g. bluetooth, remote control, built-in DAC etc. Similar to Ruark MR1 MK2, they review very well, but overpriced and woofer size underspec'd when compared to studio monitors like Presonus Eris 4.5, M-Audio BX5 D3 or Mackie MR5 Mk3. Just which one to pick...



Tuneslover said:


> All these references to a Modi 3...am I missing something?  I'm planning on buying another DAC and I'm leaning toward another Modi MB but if there's another Modi update on the horizon I think I'll hold off.  Please enlighten me.


You're not missing anything, only my wishful thinking. The Magni/Modi originals, and version 2's look to have been announced and released at the same time. So I wondered if maybe there was maybe a Modi 3 round the corner in a month or two maybe.


----------



## Zbell (Oct 4, 2017)

davidmt83 said:


> Thanks - AudioEngine come across as "lifestyle" speakers, often overpriced compared to studio monitors with less bells and whistles e.g. bluetooth, remote control, built-in DAC etc. Similar to Ruark MR1 MK2, they review very well, but overpriced and woofer size underspec'd when compared to studio monitors like Presonus Eris 4.5, M-Audio BX5 D3 or Mackie MR5 Mk3. Just which one to pick...



No doubt, the HD3 are small form factor and meant for close field listening.  Really depends on what you're trying to get out of them (for me Bluetooth is important and they will be in a smallish room).  Generally, if you're looking into budget active speakers you're making some compromises with audio quality compared to similarly priced passive monitors anyway.


----------



## FastAndClean

how does magni 2 compare to magni 3 in sound


----------



## FastAndClean

i have two orthos that are a little bit warm and dark, and they pair with magni 2 very well, i guess if the magni 3 is warmer sounding i should pass


----------



## -ImageX

Beau Cauchemar said:


> To clarify, most of us have no problem meandering off the original trail for the sake of fleshing out possible related solutions.
> 
> What I was merely commenting on was how this thread had gone on for multiple pages regarding the Magni 3 not being loud enough for one person on one set of cans. How many times can you say “call tech support if you determine it’s not the headphones” as we all know the Magni 3 is loud enough to damage most (if not all) drivers. Either that or “make an appointment with a hearing specialist.” I couldn’t have been the only one annoyed by this as many of us subscribe to hear more sonic impressions and pairings.
> 
> Sure, I haven’t contributed much of anything, but I just felt like it needed to be pointed out. Let’s not lose perspective here and keep the discussion interesting/productive. *gets back into fake moderators police car and speeds off into the distance aware that people might laugh/disagree*



Nonsense. I stated many times that I was contacting support. Many contributing members posted replies and instead of me simply replying to those.... you prefer that I ignore them so not to “keep going”? What’s next? A one reply limit per thread? I know your scroll button works as good as anyone else’s.


----------



## Jimster480

I think that all of this arguing is pointless.
Whether or not the guy was posting constantly about his HD650's not getting enough volume or not, you can just skip over most of the posts like I did after I gave him my reply.

Hes clearly got an issue somewhere in his chain, or possibly with his magni 3.

But there is no reason to start arguing over who is posting on topic or not. This is a amp forum, we can talk about whatever we want to talk about and most of the posts have been about the Magni 3 and related devices comparing (which is the whole point of impression threads). 
These off-topic arguing posts are the only posts that shouldn't be here.


----------



## GearMe

Jimster480 said:


> I think that all of this arguing is pointless.
> Whether or not the guy was posting constantly about his HD650's not getting enough volume or not, you can just skip over most of the posts like I did after I gave him my reply.
> 
> Hes clearly got an issue somewhere in his chain, or possibly with his magni 3.
> ...



+


----------



## Zbell

GearMe said:


> +



Show your love in the upvotes plzzz.  Karma for DAYS... oh wait, where are we?


----------



## Jimster480

Alcophone said:


> Ah, okay. I looked on their website, Amazon and Massdrop. I can't find anything about a 9018Q2M on esstech.com, but there's the ES9018K2M, and there are lots of hits when searching for that and DX7. And a review on Head-Fi that mentions a possible future upgrade to the ES9038Q2M, which I also don't see on esstech.com.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the tip! But for now I'm focused on pure multibit DACs, admittedly solely based on the hype.
> And my brainstorming was focused on the completeness of Schiit's lineup, obviously there are way more options when you look elsewhere.


Yes you are right, there is also Audio-GD which does alot of pure Multibit DAC's and Balanced Multibit DAC's.
The prices get up there, but even their master tier DAC's are cheaper than Yggdrasil and look to be better too. 

http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R2/R2R2EN.htm <- Balanced R2R Ladder for $735


----------



## RickB

I have a Magni 3 being delivered tomorrow. I've been using a Vali 2 for a long time. I have no major complaints, except that the amp gets left on for long times without me using it, which is bad for tube life. Unfortunately, turning a tube amp on and off frequently is also bad for tube life (think light bulb). Hopefully, the Magni 3 has enough warmth that I can switch to pure solid state without too much trouble.


----------



## AudioBear

I was certainly a contributor to all of the posts about the HD650 low volume problem.  I was about to PM but things wound down of their own accord.  I regularly read 

Mike Moffat's What a long, strange trip it's been -- (Robert Hunter) and Jason Stoddard's Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up

If you enjoy off-topic chatter in threads these are the place to go.  Especially Baldr's forum which discusses everything from Opera to warming cats on an Yggy.

We all have different tolerance for OT chatter, I get that.   All I can say is that we also all need to get along and be nice.  These are some of the most useful and civil--in fact downright friendly forums I've ever participated in.  Let's keep it that way.  That means a little give and take from all sides and being both considerate and tolerant. I hope we're past this bump in the road with no harm done. 

In order to stay on topic I should add that I tried feeding the output of the earphone jack on my 2016 MacBookPro to the Magni 3. It sounded better (bigger, fuller, more controlled) with the same PM-3s.  Not surprising except that the DAC in the MBP is better than past editions.  That a headphone amp helps is no surprise, that's sort of how Head-Fi got started.


----------



## FastAndClean

i will ask my questions again a little bit later, hopefully i will get some answers


----------



## Alcophone

Jimster480 said:


> Yes you are right, there is also Audio-GD which does alot of pure Multibit DAC's and Balanced Multibit DAC's.
> The prices get up there, but even their master tier DAC's are cheaper than Yggdrasil and look to be better too.
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R2/R2R2EN.htm <- Balanced R2R Ladder for $735



Intriguing - a DAC with HDMI in! Easier way to get digital out over long connections from many computers.
The R2R 2 isn't balanced, I think. Wish it had an HDMI out to pass through video and audio, and 192 kHz via TOSlink.
The R2R 7 ($2,480) is balanced, though, and supports 192 kHz via TOSlink (still no HDMI out).
Would love to try it, especially comparing it to the Yggy!


----------



## Jimster480

Alcophone said:


> Intriguing - a DAC with HDMI in! Easier way to get digital out over long connections from many computers.
> The R2R 2 isn't balanced, I think. Wish it had an HDMI out to pass through video and audio, and 192 kHz via TOSlink.
> The R2R 7 ($2,480) is balanced, though, and supports 192 kHz via TOSlink (still no HDMI out).
> Would love to try it, especially comparing it to the Yggy!


They have a number of options, some with the PCM1704UK and others with their own DA-8 design which is supposed to be better.
And yes there are a few things with HDMI (I2S) inputs now.
My SMSL xUSB has HDMI (i2S) output. 


I may get one of these in the future,


----------



## Alcophone

Jimster480 said:


> And yes there are a few things with HDMI (I2S) inputs now.
> My SMSL xUSB has HDMI (i2S) output.


Oh, I didn't realize it's I2S. Then it makes sense that there's no HDMI out.
I thought it was a DAC that incorporates something like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N8Q79CS/
Though that gets tricky when the devices in the chain have different capabilities (my receiver doesn't do 88.2 or 176.4 kHz, for example)


----------



## Cdog

RickB said:


> I have a Magni 3 being delivered tomorrow. I've been using a Vali 2 for a long time. I have no major complaints, except that the amp gets left on for long times without me using it, which is bad for tube life. Unfortunately, turning a tube amp on and off frequently is also bad for tube life (think light bulb). Hopefully, the Magni 3 has enough warmth that I can switch to pure solid state without too much trouble.



Though the Magni 3 is to my ears an overall warmer amp, it's not as warm as I first thought. The Mimby dac is the main contributor to the significant changes I first posted. With the Modi Uber feeding the M3 the difference between it and the Magni 2 Uber are far less dramatic. Comparing both fed with either dac the M3 is definitely less forward sounding. For me, that's a very good thing.


----------



## hikaru12

Can anyone confirm if the Magni 3 is still using a D type shaft for the potentionmeter? Going to have to replace the knob asap. I don't know why Schitt continually insists on going with these hard to read volume knobs even in well lit environments. The marker on the volume knob isn't even well cut. They should just go with a T18 shaft so users can use a screw on type volume knob as it's easier to mod or just go include a better volume indicator on their stock one.


----------



## erics75

RickB said:


> I have a Magni 3 being delivered tomorrow. I've been using a Vali 2 for a long time. I have no major complaints, except that the amp gets left on for long times without me using it, which is bad for tube life. Unfortunately, turning a tube amp on and off frequently is also bad for tube life (think light bulb). Hopefully, the Magni 3 has enough warmth that I can switch to pure solid state without too much trouble.


i have both and i dont think you'd have any issues going from the vali 2 to magni 3. i have an eh gold pin tube in mine, and found the vali 2 to be a bit too smooth and soft in it's presentation. the magni 3 is just clearer overall, but still sounds similar. it's not as bright as the older magni models, which i've owned all. it's a great little amp, clear, detailed, powerful. i honestly dont think it would be a huge adjustment going from vali to magni. and you can leave it on all the time! mine is on 24/7


----------



## RickB (Oct 4, 2017)

erics75 said:


> i have both and i dont think you'd have any issues going from the vali 2 to magni 3. i have an eh gold pin tube in mine, and found the vali 2 to be a bit too smooth and soft in it's presentation. the magni 3 is just clearer overall, but still sounds similar. it's not as bright as the older magni models, which i've owned all. it's a great little amp, clear, detailed, powerful. i honestly dont think it would be a huge adjustment going from vali to magni. and you can leave it on all the time! mine is on 24/7



Thanks, that's reassuring.


----------



## Jimster480 (Oct 4, 2017)

Alcophone said:


> Oh, I didn't realize it's I2S. Then it makes sense that there's no HDMI out.
> I thought it was a DAC that incorporates something like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N8Q79CS/
> Though that gets tricky when the devices in the chain have different capabilities (my receiver doesn't do 88.2 or 176.4 kHz, for example)


Well these might have both, they are high end.
I was just going based on the other units I've seen which have I2S via HDMI.

Edit:
I read further into the description and it is indeed I2S via HDMI.

HDMI audio itself has high jitter as described on the TI Forums.


----------



## Tuneslover

Tuneslover said:


> Does the Magni 3 have a loud popping sound upon start up like the Magni 2U and original Magni have?



Yes?  No?


----------



## Marlowe

hikaru12 said:


> Can anyone confirm if the Magni 3 is still using a D type shaft for the potentionmeter? Going to have to replace the knob asap. I don't know why Schitt continually insists on going with these hard to read volume knobs even in well lit environments. The marker on the volume knob isn't even well cut. They should just go with a T18 shaft so users can use a screw on type volume knob as it's easier to mod or just go include a better volume indicator on their stock one.



Yeah, the extremely poor markings on the volume knob is one of my few quibbles with Schiit. (The knobs on the new Loki Mini appear to be much better; hopefully a new standard.) I use the gear for TV in a darkened room a lot, so I cut a little yellow arrow out of a sick-on dot and secured it with tape to the knob on my Valhalla 2. Looks ugly as hell, and is still not that visible in the dark, but much better than the "unmodded" knob. And some crinkles in the scotch tape give me a tactile guide!


----------



## MixMasterMan (Oct 4, 2017)

FastAndClean said:


> how does magni 2 compare to magni 3 in sound



I second this. I had the magni 2, but didnt like the upper mid push and compression. If the magni 3 is warmer, more open and dynamic, I'd be interested.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Tuneslover said:


> Yes?  No?



Nothing.  Mine is utterly silent on turn on and turn off.


----------



## blastedmyphone

since the magni 3 seems to be slightly warmer than its predecessors, would you guys say it's not a good fit for ATH-R70xs?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Tuneslover said:


> Yes?  No?


Isn't this just a relay switch?  It allows you to leave your headphones plugged in without any risk of damage.


----------



## MixMasterMan

-ImageX said:


> I know that they are two very different headphones and the M50s are a more “exciting” headphone that’s also far easier to drive. I knew this going in and knew I’d probably have to pick up a Magni when I purchased the HD 650. They sound good... they just lack punch and volume. There isn’t the slightest bit of physical “vibration” on my head when I know there should be.... not that that’s some kind of attribute or anything. Just a clue that they’re under driven. I appreciate all the replies. I put in a support ticket with Schiit and directed them to Page 24 of this thread and will go from there. I’ll report back on what the problem is/was if there is one. Thanks again and sorry to take up pages on the issue.



If the magni 3 is anything like the magni 2, then it's not going to work good with headphines like the 600/650's. - Ive only tried the magni 2, but it was a very upper mid focused sound, bass lite, and compressed. Basically, a lean and bright sound, that was compressed. It wasnt neutral. What you need is just a clean amp for 650's.


----------



## Jimster480

MixMasterMan said:


> If the magni 3 is anything like the magni 2, then it's not going to work good with headphines like the 600/650's. - Ive only tried the magni 2, but it was a very upper mid focused sound, bass lite, and compressed. Basically, a lean and bright sound, that was compressed. It wasnt neutral. What you need is just a clean amp for 650's.



That sounds like the Fulla2. That's how I felt about it.
Seemed really bright, but I should take it back out now and try it out with my D7200!


----------



## Tuneslover

SomeTechNoob said:


> Isn't this just a relay switch?  It allows you to leave your headphones plugged in without any risk of damage.



I don't think it's harmful to the headphones or powered speakers but it's damn annoying.  My Vali 2 has this problem too.  My Jot is perfectly quiet.  Looks like Jason finally decided to correct this deficiency with the Magni 3.  It looks like they finally improved the volume knob on the Magni 3 so it's easier to see where the heck the volume setting is.  I like the look of the Loki knobs, I wonder if they fit the earlier Magni editions and the Vali 2?  If so, it would be cool if Schiit offered them.


----------



## MixMasterMan

Jimster480 said:


> That sounds like the Fulla2. That's how I felt about it.
> Seemed really bright, but I should take it back out now and try it out with my D7200!



Ive also read a couple of similar impressions of various Schiit amps. Maybe this bright upper mid push/compression is a characteristic of all the Schiits amps? The Schiit sound?


----------



## Jimster480

MixMasterMan said:


> Ive also read a couple of similar impressions of various Schiit amps. Maybe this bright upper mid push/compression is a characteristic of all the Schiits amps? The Schiit sound?


No Idea.
I'll have a Magni 3 this weekend and will test and find out.


----------



## Tuneslover

MixMasterMan said:


> Ive also read a couple of similar impressions of various Schiit amps. Maybe this bright upper mid push/compression is a characteristic of all the Schiits amps? The Schiit sound?



Depends on which headphones you use.


----------



## MixMasterMan (Oct 4, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> No Idea.
> I'll have a Magni 3 this weekend and will test and find out.



Please report your findings.



Tuneslover said:


> Depends on which headphones you use.



Yes, but if an amp sounds a certain way, it doesnt matter what headphone you use. You should be able to tell what the change is in sound.


----------



## decodm

MixMasterMan said:


> If the magni 3 is anything like the magni 2, then it's not going to work good with headphines like the 600/650's. - Ive only tried the magni 2, but it was a very upper mid focused sound, bass lite, and compressed. Basically, a lean and bright sound, that was compressed. It wasnt neutral. What you need is just a clean amp for 650's.


 Seriously? I don’t get that at all with my magni 2 uber + hd650s, not even with my Grados!


----------



## Jimster480

decodm said:


> Seriously? I don’t get that at all with my magni 2 uber + hd650s, not even with my Grados!



What else have you compared it to side by side?


----------



## MixMasterMan

decodm said:


> Seriously? I don’t get that at all with my magni 2 uber + hd650s, not even with my Grados!



Yeah. Seriously. I ran all my sources through it. Same sonic characteristics throughout. Exactly as described: bass cut/upper mid push/signal compression.


----------



## decodm

Jimster480 said:


> What else have you compared it to side by side?



Not much: fiio e17, Cambridge Dacmagic XS (only with the Grados), Fiio e09k (and the headphone jack on my iMac, if you want to take that into consideration)


----------



## AudioBear

MixMasterMan said:


> If the magni 3 is anything like the magni 2, then it's not going to work good with headphines like the 600/650's. - Ive only tried the magni 2, but it was a very upper mid focused sound, bass lite, and compressed. Basically, a lean and bright sound, that was compressed. It wasnt neutral. What you need is just a clean amp for 650's.



This is not directed at you because you haven't even heard the Magni 3.  We have a bunch of people around here describing the sound of the Magni 3 without a root or reference.  By that I mean you can't say warm if you don't define what is cold or warm.  If you're coming from a solid state bright edgy amp Magni 3 might sound warm, but if your coming from a tube amp with a set of warmish tubes, it might sound bright by comparison.  I and others have heard Magni 3 as flat, balanced, neutral and neither bright nor warm. People have been all over the board on what it sounds like.  I think it's best characteristic is that it just gets out of the way.  It does not have a strong characteristic signature. That said, I am coming from a slightly warm amp (Liquid Carbon).  I wish people would state warm compared to what.  Even then we might disagree because hearing is so dependent on the rest of the chain, the source material, and of course--last but not least--our own brain's take on what it's hearing.

If I were going to say anything it's that Magni 3 has no particular sound. It does a lot right and nothing obviously wrong. Where it might fall short is in comparison to much better amps.  For $99 it does a pretty good imitation of a high-end amp.


----------



## MixMasterMan

AudioBear said:


> This is not directed at you because you haven't even heard the Magni 3.  We have a bunch of people around here describing the sound of the Magni 3 without a root or reference.  By that I mean you can't say warm if you don't define what is cold or warm.  If you're coming from a solid state bright edgy amp Magni 3 might sound warm, but if your coming from a tube amp with a set of warmish tubes, it might sound bright by comparison.  I and others have heard Magni 3 as flat, balanced, neutral and neither bright nor warm. People have been all over the board on what it sounds like.  I think it's best characteristic is that it just gets out of the way.  It does not have a strong characteristic signature. That said, I am coming from a slightly warm amp (Liquid Carbon).  I wish people would state warm compared to what.  Even then we might disagree because hearing is so dependent on the rest of the chain, the source material, and of course--last but not least--our own brain's take on what it's hearing.
> 
> If I were going to say anything it's that Magni 3 has no particular sound. It does a lot right and nothing obviously wrong. Where it might fall short is in comparison to much better amps.  For $99 it does a pretty good imitation of a high-end amp.



Yep. This is why I only care about a direct comparison to the magni 2. I know what that thing sounds like. So, used as a base/reference, I can get an idea of how the Magni 3 sounds. I dont like any colorization. Either warmth, or brightness, and ESPECIALLY compression. The more neutral, the better. If I want to change the sound, I'll use EQ. - 

With that said, if it's good, clean, strong power, that brings out punch and dynamics, then I'm all in.


----------



## thirdworldman (Oct 5, 2017)

MixMasterMan said:


> If the magni 3 is anything like the magni 2, then it's not going to work good with headphines like the 600/650's. - Ive only tried the magni 2, but it was a very upper mid focused sound, bass lite, and compressed. Basically, a lean and bright sound, that was compressed. It wasnt neutral. What you need is just a clean amp for 650's.



I've used a Magni 2 (non-Uber) for a couple of years and have had my Magni 3 for a week.  I agree with your description of the Magni 2's sound and find the Magni 3 to be a significant improvement.  The brightness of the Magni 2 is gone, replaced by a more balanced and dynamic sound.  Detail retrieval is improved and the overall sound is more cohesive.  I think it is a pretty neutral and clean sounding amp.   I listen on Sennheiser HD518s using a Bifrost 4490 as source.


----------



## Mkoll

thirdworldman said:


> I've used a Magni 2 for a couple of years and have had my Magni 3 for a week.  I agree with your description of the Magni 2's sound and find the Magni 3 to be a significant improvement.  The brightness of the Magni 2 is gone, replaced by a more balanced and dynamic sound.  Detail retrieval is improved and the overall sound is more cohesive.  I think it is a pretty neutral and clean sounding amp.   I listen on Sennheiser HD518s using a Bifrost 4490 as source.


I sold my Magni 2 Uber not too long ago and my impression matches yours.


----------



## SunByrne

Just got my M3 today. Replacing a Magni 2 Uber, which is going to my office. Been listening for a few hours with my ATH-R70x, which are pretty power-hungry at 470 ohms and only 99dB sensitivity. DAC is a Multibit Bifrost.

What I want from an amp is the classic "wire with gain." I want no coloration. Generally speaking, most solid-state amps are pretty good at this, but there are limits. For the price, I always thought the M2U was pretty good, but not as neutral as I would have liked. Not exactly bright, but with a little push in the mids, particularly the upper mids; just not quite ideal. But come on, for $150, not bad at all. Also felt like it struggled a little with treble clarity on the R70s when being pushed to high volumes, but again, power-hungry cans, cheap amp—there are going to be compromises.

There are less compromises with the M3. To be honest, I didn't think it'd be really all that much different than the M2U. And so far, I wouldn't say the differences are dramatic, but all the differences are improvements: more neutral, better treble clarity at high volume. Very slightly better soundstage. Very slightly better channel separation. More detail. It was not "OMG, this is like night and day!" but more like "hey, that's better... and that's at little better... and that's a bit improved, too." Just kind of cleaner all around. The M2U had a bunch of little compromises that were pretty forgivable for the price, but still present. I wasn't unhappy with the M2U but I was aware of limitations. For the M3, it's like Moffat went in and said "yeah, we can improve pretty much all of those... for 50 bucks less." 

That's a downright good deal.

Oh, and I would not say the M3 is warm overall; however, I would say it is more neutral than the M2U.


----------



## DavidA

Anyone try a HD800, HD700, HE560 or T1gen1 with Magni3?  I know the Magni3 is not an amp that someone with those headphones would really look at but if it does a decent job and not make any of the these headphones too bright / harsh I'd tell my friend to go for it as a temporary amp for his office for now until the Massdrop CTH and LCX he has on order get delivered a few months from now.


----------



## Jimster480

decodm said:


> Not much: fiio e17, Cambridge Dacmagic XS (only with the Grados), Fiio e09k (and the headphone jack on my iMac, if you want to take that into consideration)



Well the E17K has a 10ohm output impedance, which could affect some of your headphones, im not sure about the E09K though.


----------



## Jimster480

DavidA said:


> Anyone try a HD800, HD700, HE560 or T1gen1 with Magni3?  I know the Magni3 is not an amp that someone with those headphones would really look at but if it does a decent job and not make any of the these headphones too bright / harsh I'd tell my friend to go for it as a temporary amp for his office for now until the Massdrop CTH and LCX he has on order get delivered a few months from now.



I have a D7200 I will be using with the Magni 3, I'll report back my findings


----------



## Cdog (Oct 5, 2017)

I've done a direct comparison between the M2 Uber and the M3. I admit I can't say what's flat or neutral now. I can say the M3 is less forward in the upper range, I guess more "neutral" to my ears. I never found the M2 to be lacking in bass, but the M3 seems to deliver a very pleasing representation of what I believe the music is intended to sound like. The M3 is has a less fatiguing sound.  A case in point, the M3 has given my Grado's a new lease on life. They were unusable/painful with my M2U. While they still sparkle with the M3, they haven't been unbearable in the upper mids. I've came close to giving them away, now glad I didn't.

That's my definition of warmer.


----------



## chaturanga

-ImageX said:


> Just meant as a sign of headphone being driven with authority. I know even pads alone(on the M50) can drastically make a difference on felt bass/impact. Basically, I assume you all “feel” those 650s on your head when playing loud.... whereas I don’t. Hearing loss would have zero affect on the physical vibration. If one was 100% deaf, they would still feel them playing on their head. Not mine though. I feel they are under driven with the Magni 3 and that something is wrong somewhere. I should be able to feel them if just barely and I shouldn’t be able to play them full volume on high gain for hours and hours and wish I had 2-3 times the volume. It certainly isn’t like that with the A5/M50 because they would damage my hearing.
> 
> I also want to add that this is my 2nd pair of 650s. The first pair lasted one listening session and the next day the right channel went out completely. It came back intermittently with a right side unplug/replug but then stopped working (with numerous different line cables). I could hardly believe that happened with such a quality headphone. Before that happened.... they sounded the same as my replacement pair. Both purchased from Adorama. Was definitely the headphones and not equipment/line cable related. This was before my Schiit arrived.



When did you get HD650s? If you are familiar with its sound and you hear lack of something that HD650s had with another AMP, so the problem is about Magni 3 you have. But if you are not familiar with HD650s for a long time, so I agree with above replies. 

I will suggest you to find another AMP (if you have a chance) and listen HD650 and M50 again, then you can find the source of problem better.


----------



## DavidA

Jimster480 said:


> I have a D7200 I will be using with the Magni 3, I'll report back my findings


I'll look forward to your impressions but isn't the D7200 a bass heavy headphone like the Fostex line since they use a similar driver?  My friend is more concerned with how the Magni3 will pair with headphones that have a slightly brighter signature along with higher impedance in the case of the HD800 and T1.


----------



## Dave01236 (Oct 5, 2017)

DavidA said:


> Anyone try a HD800, HD700, HE560 or T1gen1 with Magni3?  I know the Magni3 is not an amp that someone with those headphones would really look at but if it does a decent job and not make any of the these headphones too bright / harsh I'd tell my friend to go for it as a temporary amp for his office for now until the Massdrop CTH and LCX he has on order get delivered a few months from now.



I have tried my HD800's on the new magni. I always run 'em on my valhalla 2 with stock tubes, and the immediate difference I could notice when I switched to the magni 3 was the soundstage. It is definitely not as wide. But again, the valhalla 2 is known for its good soundstage. Other than that, for 100 bucks, I really can't complain. For its price, it does the job.


----------



## MixMasterMan

SunByrne said:


> Just got my M3 today. Replacing a Magni 2 Uber, which is going to my office. Been listening for a few hours with my ATH-R70x, which are pretty power-hungry at 470 ohms and only 99dB sensitivity. DAC is a Multibit Bifrost.
> 
> What I want from an amp is the classic "wire with gain." I want no coloration. Generally speaking, most solid-state amps are pretty good at this, but there are limits. For the price, I always thought the M2U was pretty good, but not as neutral as I would have liked. Not exactly bright, but with a little push in the mids, particularly the upper mids; just not quite ideal. But come on, for $150, not bad at all. Also felt like it struggled a little with treble clarity on the R70s when being pushed to high volumes, but again, power-hungry cans, cheap amp—there are going to be compromises.
> 
> ...



So on the R70x's (as a good example/reference, given how hungry they are), how does the m3 perform? - Is there any headroom at either low/high gain? Or do you have to max it at high gain to get good volume?


----------



## decodm

Jimster480 said:


> Well the E17K has a 10ohm output impedance, which could affect some of your headphones, im not sure about the E09K though.



The one I have is actually the E17 (non-K), which has ＜0.3 Ω output impedance (the E17k has ＜ 1.1 Ω output impedance, according to Fiio)


----------



## Solude

Question for owners of the M3 and IEMs...  How is the noise floor?  Compared to the Jot or A2?


----------



## DavidA

Dave01236 said:


> I have tried my HD800's on the new magni. I always run 'em on my valhalla 2 with stock tubes, and the immediate difference I could notice when I switched to the magni 3 was the soundstage. It is definitely not as wide. But again, the valhalla 2 is known for its good soundstage. Other than that, for 100 bucks, I really can't complain. For its price, it does the job.


Thanks for the comparison and if its only the sound stage affected then the Magni3 is a great bargain since the Magni2uber and Jot didn't play nice with the HD800 when I tried them a while back.


----------



## Jubijub

Received my Modi 2 Multibit + Magni 3, to power my HD800 (non S), replacing a ZxR
This is a quick review, as I have not time nor will to do a proper ABX test which would be the only way to rule out the "it's brand new so my brain will like it anyway"

Reason for switching from the ZxR : I'm building a data science rig, which will partly run on Linux, and ZxR doesn't have Linux driver. (I'm a weird guy, I bought HD800 not for the quality, but because they were the largest headphones I could find that were open (for temperature), with cloth cushions (for comfort & temp) and wide (so it won't press my glasses too much when I keep it on for hours )
Result : not sure about linux yet, but under windows it worked like a charm with no drivers.
Setup of the Magni is even easier : you plug, it works. (I used the RCA cable from Schiit (the PYST RCA) which I recommand as they are very nice, and short. The red looks good.

As for the sound : I tested it with several tracks I like, ranging from classical to rock (listening to Metalica - Orion as I type this)
Volume : 10 o'clock is the maximum I can use for comfortable listening (it's even probably not a volume I would sustain all day), so plenty of headroom there (gain = low, modi 2 windows volume = 100%, Spotify volume = 100%). 8h30 would be more my volume of comfort.

The sound is great, very detailed (as usual with an HD800).The whole thing lacks of bit of bass power (bass are detailed and easy to hear, but could you more power. It could be that I used to my Bose IEM which probably have some bass boost)

I won't tell you about sound stage, microdetails and stuff because I have no idea what that means.

Overall, for 99$, this is a great purchase.



alphanumerix1 said:


> Nice mate, Looking at going with the same combo myself. Ill keep a lookout for your thoughts.


see above



Dovi said:


> I went for the exact same setup as you. And i currently have fidelio x2 with SB ZxR.
> My schiit stack should be here monday and I will receive HD800S wednesday.
> 
> Hope it Will make a great upgrade.
> ...


Good...I lack elements of comparison, but never found that the ZxR was lacking in that space. I don't change it because I didn't like the sound.


----------



## Jimster480

decodm said:


> The one I have is actually the E17 (non-K), which has ＜0.3 Ω output impedance (the E17k has ＜ 1.1 Ω output impedance, according to Fiio)


Then I really don't know, different people are more sensitive to different frequencies.


----------



## Melange

Dave01236 said:


> I have tried my HD800's on the new magni. I always run 'em on my valhalla 2 with stock tubes, and the immediate difference I could notice when I switched to the magni 3 was the soundstage. It is definitely not as wide. But again, the valhalla 2 is known for its good soundstage. Other than that, for 100 bucks, I really can't complain. For its price, it does the job.



Thanks for your impressions.

To quickly give a bit of background: I used to use a Valhalla 2 with my HD650s, but it was unfortunately destroyed in an accident. If I can replace it with a Magni 3 instead of another Valhalla 2, that would be a useful cost saving.

Could you further expand on your impressions of the Magni 3, in particular how it compares to the Valhalla 2? I know you said the soundstage is much smaller, but how about other aspects like dynamics, resolution, bass extension, tone/timbre, instrument separation, etc? Thanks.


----------



## SunByrne

MixMasterMan said:


> So on the R70x's (as a good example/reference, given how hungry they are), how does the m3 perform? - Is there any headroom at either low/high gain? Or do you have to max it at high gain to get good volume?



Ahh, I knew there was something I forgot to mention.  Good catch, thank you.

*Tons* of headroom, that's the other difference between the M3 and the M2U. Amazingly, with the M3 I can listen to the R70xs on low gain. (The M2U was always on high.) Now if I want it really loud with the R70xs I have to pretty much max it out on low, but if I switch to high, I don't think I'd ever go past about 11o'clock. It's pretty crazy loud at noon, probably pretty much ear-splitting at 1:00, I'd guess (in the interest of being able to hear in the future, I haven't gone past noon on high).


----------



## RickB

I've been listening to my Schiit Magni 3 headphone amp for a couple of hours. Not too big a departure from my Vali 2. It's very smooth for inexpensive solid state, and now I can leave it on all the time and not worry that a tube is getting used up! It may be a touch brighter, but it's also clearer and more detailed than the Vali 2. All in all a great buy.


----------



## ColtMrFire (Oct 6, 2017)

Love Schiit gear but do not like this amp at all.


----------



## AudioBear

ColtMrFire said:


> Love Schiit gear but do not like this amp at all.



As is your right.  Not everyone is going to like every piece of Schiit that comes out.  Or every amp from other brands.  Maybe that’s why there are so many brands and models that we have to sort to find the ones we like.

I was amazed at how good the Magni 3 is for $99.  We obviously have different tastes.  It might be useful to others if you listed the things you found good and what you found was lacking.  Magni 3 isn’t my best amp or my TOTL amp.  With all the hype and excitement that seems to be overlooked.  Even Schiit wants you to buy a better amp!


----------



## ColtMrFire

Compared to Asgard 2 and others like Valhalla 2, Magni 3 doesn't sound as natural to me.  My problems with it are specific to me and my tastes, and may not apply to everyone else, so I'm refraining from commenting further.


----------



## AudioBear

ColtMrFire said:


> Compared to Asgard 2 and others like Valhalla 2, Magni 3 doesn't sound as natural to me.  My problems with it are specific to me and my tastes, and may not apply to everyone else, so I'm refraining from commenting further.



Understood. Good luck in the quest.


----------



## GearMe

ColtMrFire said:


> Compared to Asgard 2 and others like Valhalla 2, Magni 3 doesn't sound as natural to me.  My problems with it are specific to me and my tastes, and may not apply to everyone else, so I'm refraining from commenting further.


Yep...different sound than the Valhalla 2 for sure; to be expected depending on the tubes used.  Interesting comment on the Asgard 2 as Jason mentions in his thread that the Magni 3 started off as the Asgard 3.  Am assuming there's something about Class A that definitely appeals to your ear.

That said, it's definitely better than my original Magni (less harsh) and is a nice upgrade for my work set up.


----------



## FastAndClean

Oh boy I have dark cans and with my magni 2 they are still dark, I have to boost the treble a little bit, and the new magni 3 is "less harsh", sound like magni 3 will be bad pairing with my cans


----------



## GearMe (Oct 6, 2017)

Might be true...but my other Magni was the original release (v1)...not sure how much difference there is between that and the v2. 

Also, many of my cans are neutral to a little bright


----------



## FastAndClean

You have beautiful quote in your signature.


----------



## MixMasterMan

FastAndClean said:


> Oh boy I have dark cans and with my magni 2 they are still dark, I have to boost the treble a little bit, and the new magni 3 is "less harsh", sound like magni 3 will be bad pairing with my cans



These magni's are often described as "bright", but really what it is, is that upper mid push. It's more like a focus, rather than a frequency boost. If you have dark headphones, you'll have better results using an EQ to get treble out of them. An amp isnt going to make a head and shoulders difference. An amp will just impart a sonic character, more than an EQ curve.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

I have a story to tell...

(HD650)

Today a massive showdown occurred... and the long standing champion wasn't having anything  best it. That champion and the few who know of its skill sat in suspense as the Magni 3 was placed upon the desk. Hours later a winner emerged and its name was the TI® NE5532. It  won by a small margin but nonetheless with its flat frequency response and ability to provide sub-bass gave it the ever so slight edge. 

The DAC was the Realtek ALC1150 and provided both sources with detailed and balanced audio. 

Okay... now that the story is done; a better description of what happened. 

The Magni 3 was softer sounding in treble and lacked the absolute lowest bass. Yeah I know I'm saying onboard audio beat it but well it did... but only by a very small amount. It isn't a a big deal just kind of surprising due to the fact that the Magni 3 had one job, to amplify headphones, and (rare quality) motherboard audio can beat it. 

The computer that has these specs isn't mine but my cheap ASUS sound card came in decently close. Also a Sony CD player from the 80s had headphone out with volume and sounded equal. 

I know there are benefits to owning a separate headphone amp but for $99... stuff dose at least tie with it. 

Well that's my first day with it and I'm not sure what to think.


----------



## DavidA (Oct 7, 2017)

@16 Bit Bowser, add-in sound cards and some onboard sound chips are and can be just as good as some external DACs and amps.  FWIW I consider my old STX sound card better than the original M/M stack that I had at the time and my current cheap Xonar DG sound card sounds better than the Modi2/Magni2 setup that a friend has IMO but headphones used are mostly lower impedance and quite efficient, nothing with higher impedance like the HD650 and DT990 250ohm.

The softer treble of the Magni3 can be looked at as being more neutral than the older Magni2 since some consider the Magni2 to be a bright amp.  In your case the softer treble is seen as a negative but to others it might be what they are looking for.


----------



## MonoOno

Never mind.


----------



## MementoMori99

My current set-up is as follows:  iPhone6>Jitterbug>Dragonfly Red(DAC only)>Vali 2(w/Tesla E88CC tube)>Nightowl(w/hybrid earpads). 

The curiosity got the best of me, so I picked up an M3.  After breaking it in for 24-hrs., in a nutshell, I find that the M3 has a little bit more, but still relatively smooth treble and level of detail and a lower noise floor than the V2.  Compared with the V2, the M3 is clearly a more neutral affair.  Despite these improvements, at least to my ears, I find that the V2(w/Tesla E88CC tube) which has treble extension  and level of detail that is close enough to that of the M3 and is surrounded by a warmer sound presentation to be more pleasing.  Personal preferences aside, I will have to admit that the M3 is a compelling value at $99.  Since I do not have any use for a second hp amp, the M3 will be going back to Schiit.  I guess that I am in the minority when it comes to preferring the V2 over the M3.  Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## RickB

MementoMori99 said:


> My current set-up is as follows:  iPhone6>Jitterbug>Dragonfly Red(DAC only)>Vali 2(w/Tesla E88CC tube)>Nightowl(w/hybrid earpads).
> 
> The curiosity got the best of me, so I picked up an M3.  After breaking it in for 24-hrs., in a nutshell, I find that the M3 has a little bit more, but still relatively smooth treble and level of detail and a lower noise floor than the V2.  Compared with the V2, the M3 is clearly a more neutral affair.  Despite these improvements, at least to my ears, I find that the V2(w/Tesla E88CC tube) which has treble extension  and level of detail that is close enough to that of the M3 and is surrounded by a warmer sound presentation to be more pleasing.  Personal preferences aside, I will have to admit that the M3 is a compelling value at $99.  Since I do not have any use for a second hp amp, the M3 will be going back to Schiit.  I guess that I am in the minority when it comes to preferring the V2 over the M3.  Different strokes for different folks.



I agree that the Vali 2 has a slightly warmer, pleasing presentation. However, the fact that with the Magni 3 I don't have to use up tube life and keep buying tubes is enough of a factor that the M3 will be my main amp for now. I'm keeping the Vali 2 as a backup.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser (Oct 7, 2017)

I don't have any clue what people are hearing... Almost every source I have sounds pretty great with HD650 and if anything the Magni 3 is limiting them compared to others that give off sub bass. 

For $99 I'm confused.

The build quality is above $99 and it does sound great. 

...


----------



## JoeKickass (Oct 7, 2017)

16 Bit Bowser said:


> I don't have any clue what people are hearing... Almost every source I have sounds pretty great with HD650 and if anything the Magni 3 is limiting them compared to others that give off sub bass.



The Magni 3 isn't limiting your bass frequencies.

It has* -0.1dB* attenuation at 20 Hz and the cutoff -3dB point is at *2 Hz*





I'm not saying you aren't hearing a sound difference, but the Magni 3 is not the cause. (Unless you can hear 2 Hz)

Since the DAC and amp you are using are both on the motherboard it's possible they have access to a cleaner signal than whatever output you are connecting to the Magni.

My recommendation is a Modi Multibit, and an Eitr wouldn't hurt either!


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

JoeKickass said:


> The Magni 3 isn't limiting your bass frequencies.
> 
> It has* -0.1dB* attenuation at 20 Hz and the cutoff -3dB point is at *2 Hz*
> 
> ...




Thanks for the info! 

Yeah I can't hear 2hz, but that would be cool. 

I'm going to continue testing sources and continue listen to it before I decide what to do.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

My Magni 3 is basically identical sounding with this CD players headphone output.

(Magni 3 is plugged in using RCA from the back of the CD player)

CD player is the Sony CDP-S107

It's specs for the headphone out are awful but sounds the same as the Magni 3. 

Specs:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/889824/Sony-Cdp-S27.html#product-CDP-S107


I thought the HD650 needed a good amp?


----------



## ProblemChild

M3 good for the Fostex t50rp?


----------



## Jimster480

16 Bit Bowser said:


> I don't have any clue what people are hearing... Almost every source I have sounds pretty great with HD650 and if anything the Magni 3 is limiting them compared to others that give off sub bass.
> 
> For $99 I'm confused.
> 
> ...


I also noticed that the Sub bass is slightly less with the Magni 3.
I tested a few of my favorite jazz tracks along with my Yahamha YH-2 and my Topping A30 and my JDS O2.
The magni does have less sub bass vs both of those, but it also has smoother and sweeter treble, although its a tad brighter as I encountered one song where my volume had to be lowered with the Magni because the instrument was sharp, but it wasn't this way on other amps.
I wonder if its treble extension overall.


----------



## JoeKickass (Oct 7, 2017)

This is pretty odd, the Magni 3 is supposed to be very similar to a single ended Jotunheim, which has stellar sub-bass!

Maybe it's the external power supply of the M3 vs. the internal transformer of the Jot, or maybe the circuit really is a bit different...

I only have the Jot, but if someone has both it sounds like a bass shootout is in order!


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser (Oct 7, 2017)

My Magni 3 is basically identical sounding with my CD players headphone output.
CD player is the Sony CDP-S107
It's specs for the headphone out are awful but sounds the same as the Magni 3.

Specs:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/889824/Sony-Cdp-S27.html#product-CDP-S107

I thought the HD650 needed a good amp???


----------



## Tuneslover (Oct 7, 2017)

RickB said:


> I agree that the Vali 2 has a slightly warmer, pleasing presentation. However, the fact that with the Magni 3 I don't have to use up tube life and keep buying tubes is enough of a factor that the M3 will be my main amp for now. I'm keeping the Vali 2 as a backup.



As you, I also wondered if there would be regrets with having to constantly source tubes for a tube amp but after the reasonably priced Vali 2 was released I thought what the heck I'm going for it.  Since acquiring it I did purchase 3 popular tubes in order to satisfy my curiosity how they alter the sound of this amp.  It is sonically noticeable but not earth shatteringly so.  At that time I also owned the Magni 2U so I compared the two amps pretty closely.  They sounded quite similar but the Vali 2 just had a warmer, less edgy sound that was just easier to listen to for an extended period of time.  I ended up selling the M2U.  The V2 was a more versatile amp that sounded similar but more pleasing than the Magni.

Initially I was leaning more towards the Project Ember hybrid tube amp but I just couldn't overlook the lower cost of the V2.  This summer we visited my uncle in the U.S. (I'm from Canada) so I decided to order the Ember and have it shipped to his place.  Avoiding import and tax charges I feel that it was a worthwhile purchase as the Ember is clearly superior to the V2.  I still have the V2, now connected to my iMac system and it's doing a perfectly nice job there.

Regarding tube life and tube replacement costs, so far I haven't had to replace any of my tubes yet and I regularly rotate my tubes amongst both amps.  Eventually the time will come when this happens but I figure it's going to be quite some time before I burn out my entire modest collection.

I'm glad that you're enjoying your M3 and it sounds like some of the rough highs have been tamed as compared to the earlier version.  It sounds like a tremendous value at $99.


----------



## MixMasterMan

JoeKickass said:


> The Magni 3 isn't limiting your bass frequencies.
> 
> It has* -0.1dB* attenuation at 20 Hz and the cutoff -3dB point is at *2 Hz*
> 
> ...



Published specs don't tell the whole story, and can be misleading. If the m3 is anything like the m2 in the bass department, then I can believe it that the low bass is cut off or recessed. Only your ears can be the judge, not a spec sheet!


----------



## DavidA

16 Bit Bowser said:


> I don't have any clue what people are hearing... Almost every source I have sounds pretty great with HD650 and if anything the Magni 3 is limiting them compared to others that give off sub bass.
> 
> For $99 I'm confused.
> 
> ...


The HD650 doesn't really have sub-bass, its a mid bass hump that you are most likely hearing.  While my BH Crack is a tube amp it doesn't make the HD650 any warmer due to the tubes used and as good a pairing its not going to make the HD650 have sub-bass but it does tighten up the bass that is there so it gives the impression of having some sub-bass but its not going to have the sub-bass of something like the HE560 or LCD-2 which do have sub-bass.  Basically what you are hearing is that your other sources are a bit warmer (boosting the mid-bass hump) so you are perceiving it to have more sub-bass which is a sound that you seem to prefer.  If the Magni3 does nothing for you send them back and use the money saved on other gear, music or just pocket it, only your impression counts and if you are happy that's all that matters.


----------



## Jimster480

MixMasterMan said:


> Published specs don't tell the whole story, and can be misleading. If the m3 is anything like the m2 in the bass department, then I can believe it that the low bass is cut off or recessed. Only your ears can be the judge, not a spec sheet!


Exactly, published specs are just that.... published specs.

Often products sound different despite them all having the same frequency responses, distortions, etc

Clearly there are other factors which are not measured.


----------



## erics75

ProblemChild said:


> M3 good for the Fostex t50rp?


Oh yeah its got plenty of power for the t50rp.I have a mk3 model and get plenty of volume and control even on low gain. Its a great amp for power hungry planars.


----------



## ProblemChild

Awesome! Thanks for the help. 


erics75 said:


> Oh yeah its got plenty of power for the t50rp.I have a mk3 model and get plenty of volume and control even on low gain. Its a great amp for power hungry planars.


----------



## Cdog (Oct 7, 2017)

The Mimby, M3, HP50 combo is to my ears very pleasing. So much so I've caught myself easing the volume up and unintentionally over driving them. On most modern mastered recordings about 9 o'clock will fill your ears with sound. My Grado's love this combo, and even a seldom used pair of tape removed Sennheiser 558's that I considered bloated and mid bass mushy sound much better with the M3. With all the features of the M2U and improved performance all for $100.00 and change delivered, this is an easy keeper.

The M2U stack still has home, as I'm still pleased with their performance/$ ratio.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

To be honest I think that the HD650 sounds the same or slightly worse when running threw the Magni 3, compared to my iPhone 5S. Apparently smart phone's outputs are awful and the HD650 sounds better amped...   

I don't believe either now! Maybe when the HD650 released in 2003 they needed a dedicated amp but not anymore. 

The Magni 3 softens the treble and low bass slightly while providing more volume and does absolutely nothing else! 

This is my first headphone Amp, is that what it's supposed to do?


----------



## Jimster480

16 Bit Bowser said:


> To be honest I think that the HD650 sounds the same or slightly worse when running threw the Magni 3, compared to my iPhone 5S. Apparently smart phone's outputs are awful and the HD650 sounds better amped...
> 
> I don't believe either now! Maybe when the HD650 released in 2003 they needed a dedicated amp but not anymore.
> 
> ...


What music are you listening to?
Amps just amplify sounds, but you have to also understand that if every day you listen to your current setup. A new setup is bound to sound worse at first, because your brain becomes accustomed to the tonal patterns, etc.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser (Oct 8, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> What music are you listening to?
> Amps just amplify sounds, but you have to also understand that if every day you listen to your current setup. A new setup is bound to sound worse at first, because your brain becomes accustomed to the tonal patterns, etc.



I listen to almost everything. I've been listening to mostly movie OSTs on CD, and my Spotify library of actually everything.
I haven't been listening to the HD650 for months because I thought un-amped the drivers may get damaged due to low power/current.

I've been listing to HD598s and Momentums but the HD650 plugged into anything is FAR better then either one of those.
The Magni seems to be very slightly better with voices then the iPhone 5s, but I presume that is because the Magni has less treble and it makes mids sound stronger by comparison.


----------



## Jimster480

Well it certainly has power, the 5S has power too though and can probably drive the HD650s decently.

Most headphones these days don't actually need much power, despite most Amp designers making amps with more and more power where headphones get more and more efficient.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

Jimster480 said:


> Well it certainly has power, the 5S has power too though and can probably drive the HD650s decently.
> 
> Most headphones these days don't actually need much power, despite most Amp designers making amps with more and more power where headphones get more and more efficient.



Thank you! That makes since and explains quite a bit.


----------



## MonoOno

You seem very intent on holding back your HD650. Lol.


----------



## DavidA (Oct 8, 2017)

MonoOno said:


> You seem very intent on holding back your HD650. Lol.


Not sure about this comment, how is the person intent on holding back the HD650?  To me, he/she is trying to get the most out the HD650 since they went out and got the Magni3 thinking that it would be an improvement over their current gear.


----------



## Cdog

The sound of any system is subjective.

As we move up and around the world of music reproduction we find some things just don't do it for us.
Not everyone listens as critically as others, nor are they interested in subtle differences others may be on edge to hear.
I had a Vali 2 for about a week, it didn't take more than a couple of days to know I didn't find the value I'd hoped for in it.
Though I kept trying for a few more days, I knew it was going back to California.

My perception may not be close to yours. Still our perception is our reality.

Some may find value, others, not so much. Choice is great (especially at Schiit prices).


----------



## MixMasterMan

16 Bit Bowser said:


> To be honest I think that the HD650 sounds the same or slightly worse when running threw the Magni 3, compared to my iPhone 5S. Apparently smart phone's outputs are awful and the HD650 sounds better amped...
> 
> I don't believe either now! Maybe when the HD650 released in 2003 they needed a dedicated amp but not anymore.
> 
> ...



16-bit Bowser, PM me and I'll tell you what to get. I can recommend you an amp that sounds better (fuller range/more dynamic/neutral), louder, has more features, etc, than the magni, and is about $30 cheaper (or around the same price as the recently discounted magni 2's).


----------



## GearMe

Hmmm....would that be the Samson QH4?


----------



## MixMasterMan

GearMe said:


> Hmmm....would that be the Samson QH4?



.... no comment.


----------



## GearMe

MixMasterMan said:


> .... no comment.



Shouldn't be a problem on this thread as it hasn't been started by Jason or Mike...especially if it's presented as an alternative to the Magni 3 from a comparison standpoint.

I'll start!  

Realize that:

1.  I understand specs aren't the end-all, be-all
2.  I'm not a Schiit fanboy like many on Head-Fi...owning a variety of other gear including amps, dacs, dac/amps (in addition to some Schiit gear which I consider to be excellent values for their use cases)
3.  I started with specs because you mentioned things like louder (power), fuller range (frequency response), etc.
4.  I may have misinterpreted what you meant and apologize in advance if that's the case!

Samson QH4 specs:

Output Power: 282mW per side / 564mW per channel, loaded 32Ω
Frequency Response: 17Hz–47kHz (-3dB)
Schiit Magni 3 specs:

Output Power: Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 2W RMS per channel
Frequency Response: 2Hz-900KHz, -3dB
FWIW, I'm a big believer in using specs only as a guide...but am having trouble figuring how the QH4 stands up to the Magni 3 in these areas you mention.  TBH, I'd be more inclined to consider the QH4 for its broader feature set and not it's amping capabilities.


----------



## MixMasterMan

GearMe said:


> Shouldn't be a problem on this thread as it hasn't been started by Jason or Mike...especially if it's presented as an alternative to the Magni 3 from a comparison standpoint.
> 
> I'll start!
> 
> ...



Lol... I just dont want to start a flame war, or anger anyone  - I havent heard the magni3 (only m2), so can't compare. But compared to m2, the qh4 exhibited the differences I mentioned. 

Regarding FR specs: As long as a device can reproduce a range from 20hz-20khz, then it's a matter of what you hear. Because technically, humans can't hear or perceive anything beyond that range (maybe down to 10-12hz, if blasted really loud, and your gear can reproduce it). 

Maybe the m3 is a lot better than the m2. From seemingly credible sources here, it's more balanced and more powerful. - Based on my experience, and the many amps ive tried/owned, the qh4 is what I settled on, and is an outstanding value. It sounds awesome, and easily powers all my headphones.


----------



## GearMe

MixMasterMan said:


> Lol... I just dont want to start a flame war, or anger anyone  - I havent heard the magni3 (only m2), so can't compare. But compared to m2, the qh4 exhibited the differences I mentioned.
> 
> Regarding FR specs: As long as a device can reproduce a range from 20hz-20khz, then it's a matter of what you hear. Because technically, humans can't hear or perceive anything beyond that range (maybe down to 10-12hz, if blasted really loud, and your gear can reproduce it).
> 
> Maybe the m3 is a lot better than the m2. From seemingly credible sources here, it's more balanced and more powerful. - Based on my experience, and the many amps ive tried/owned, the qh4 is what I settled on, and is an outstanding value. It sounds awesome, and easily powers all my headphones.



Chuckle...am guessing most of us know the limits of human hearing and certainly no anger here; just comparing the areas you highlighted.  

As I said...not a Schiit fanboy (original M/M stack was meh).  I just give them credit where it's due.  From an amping perspective (on paper), the Magni 3 would seem to be much better than the QH4 -- especially on less efficient headphones as it's ~7x as powerful with very low THD, IMD, SNR, etc.  On the plus side for the QH4, it does have a bevy of features/connectivity which look helpful if you're into recording/mixing/producing music.

That said, I use tubes to drive my inefficient, high impedance cans; which 'measure' worse for the most part...they just sound better (to me).


----------



## DavidA

GearMe said:


> Chuckle...am guessing most of us know the limits of human hearing and certainly no anger here; just comparing the areas you highlighted.
> 
> As I said...not a Schiit fanboy (original M/M stack was meh).  I just give them credit where it's due.  From an amping perspective (on paper), the Magni 3 would seem to be much better than the QH4 -- especially on less efficient headphones as it's ~7x as powerful with very low THD, IMD, SNR, etc.  On the plus side for the QH4, it does have a bevy of features/connectivity which look helpful if you're into recording/mixing/producing music.
> 
> That said, I use tubes to drive my inefficient, high impedance cans; which 'measure' worse for the most part...they just sound better (to me).


Measurements are fine if you are looking for gear that measures well, I want something that sounds good to me and like @GearMe, I like the distortion that tubes add to the music 

The Magni3 seems to be quite polarizing with impressions ranging from "great value" to "save your money" so its something that I just might try to borrow from a friend who just ordered one.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

MonoOno said:


> You seem very intent on holding back your HD650. Lol.



Holding them back? Hmmmm... So a SS amp from a reputable company that gives the HD650 430mw per channel is holding back? I don't think so. 
If the HD650 are supposed to sound slightly muted when amped then fine, I guess I prefer then un-amped. If NOT what gives the HD650 its fullest potential?


----------



## MonoOno

DavidA said:


> Not sure about this comment, how is the person intent on holding back the HD650?  To me, he/she is trying to get the most out the HD650 since they went out and got the Magni3 thinking that it would be an improvement over their current gear.


As someone that went through the somewhat expensive trials and tribulations of trying to get the best out of the HD650 years ago on the cheap I just have a very hard time seeing the Magni 3 as the least competent at driving them out of everything he tried, most of which I too have tried.

I will admit I do not yet have my Magni 3, but over the years I have put my HD650 through the paces on the ASUS Xonar DGX, O2+ODAC, Magni 2 and the Asgard 2 and there is just no way the Realtek ALC1150 is driving them better than the Magni 3. I spent close to $300 buying the best motherboard I could get with it and on paper it sounds real great and being able to even push even 600 ohm headphones but I genuinely feel even the ASUS Xonar DGX edged it and it pales in comparison to the O2+ODAC, Magni 2 and especially the Asgard 2 in being able to drive the HD650 to insane volumes.

That said, I personally think I got the best out of my HD650 or at least finally realized its full potential after getting a somewhat decent DAC in the O2+ODAC combo which by many accounts is not even the best in the sub $200 category. And reading 16 Bit Bowser posts I get the feeling that might be the issue. So if he is using his Magni 3 just to amp a terrible source like an old motherboard then yeah, I could see his iPhone 5S and even CD player with an amp from the 90's sounding better as 90% of on-board audio is complete crap even when amped by a great amp.

Worse thing I ever done to my headphones was neglect getting a decent DAC after buying into the notion they do not make much of difference. They do.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

I guess Im just surprised how little the Magni 3 did, if anything to my enjoyment of the HD650. Upgrading headphones in the past was an immediate improvement or at least a change. I started with Momentum (Gen1), then HD598SE now HD650. I have enjoyed each one for what it is but the HD650 is superior to the lower ones in almost every way. I even had the HE400i for a week but returned it because I simply didn't like it, but I still understand why some people do. I however don't understand what people hear in the Magni 3. 

I'm about done commenting in this thread and I will just make the decision for myself, because I know there are new people that will use the thread for new questions/impresion.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

MonoOno said:


> As someone that went through the somewhat expensive trials and tribulations of trying to get the best out of the HD650 years ago on the cheap I just have a very hard time seeing the Magni 3 as the least competent at driving them out of everything he tried, most of which I too have tried.
> 
> I will admit I do not yet have my Magni 3, but over the years I have put my HD650 through the paces on the ASUS Xonar DGX, O2+ODAC, Magni 2 and the Asgard 2 and there is just no way the Realtek ALC1150 is driving them better than the Magni 3. I spent close to $300 buying the best motherboard I could get with it and on paper it sounds real great and being able to even push even 600 ohm headphones but I genuinely feel even the ASUS Xonar DGX edged it and it pales in comparison to the O2+ODAC, Magni 2 and especially the Asgard 2 in being able to drive the HD650 to insane volumes.
> 
> ...




By the way the Realtek ALC1150 is a DAC not an AMP! It paired with it TI amp is also probably as good as an O2 ODAC, I don't doubt it. 

Also you have room to say that the Magni 3 and HD650 sound good if you haven't even heard it.  

Im about done with Head-fi.


----------



## MonoOno

16 Bit Bowser said:


> By the way the Realtek ALC1150 is a DAC not an AMP! It paired with it TI amp is also probably as good as an O2 ODAC, I don't doubt it.
> 
> Also you have room to say that the Magni 3 and HD650 sound good if you haven't even heard it.
> 
> Im done with Head-fi.


I know. My motherboard has the same DAC/AMP combo(again, went out of my way to get it) and no it is not as good as the O2+DAC no matter what it says on paper. Throw it in a PC case with the rest of your components and it immediately takes a backseat due to interference from your other components . Not to mention the potential issues with the RealTek audio manger. Not even close.

That said, sorry if I offended you. Many tried to help, I was the outlier, so please do not give up on Head-Fi on the account of my post.


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

MonoOno said:


> I know. My motherboard has the same DAC/AMP combo(again, went out of my way to get it) and no it is not as good as the O2+DAC no matter what it says on paper. Throw it in a PC case with the rest of your components and it immediately takes a backseat due to interference from your other components . Not to mention the potential issues with the RealTek audio manger. Not even close.
> 
> That said, sorry if I offended you. Many tried to help, I was the outlier, so please do not give up on Head-Fi on the account of my post.



It wasn't your posts, and trust me I'm not offended. I just want to do this without the input of others. I chose Momentums and HD650 with any advice and am super glad I did. Im leaving head-fi because its not worth my time to explain that somethings sound better/different to me. It's also a rabbit hole of unneeded purchases. 


 I LOVE audio because of music not gear and specs. -16 Bit Bowser

Bye.


----------



## DavidA (Oct 9, 2017)

MonoOno said:


> As someone that went through the somewhat expensive trials and tribulations of trying to get the best out of the HD650 years ago on the cheap I just have a very hard time seeing the Magni 3 as the least competent at driving them out of everything he tried, most of which I too have tried.
> 
> I will admit I do not yet have my Magni 3, but over the years I have put my HD650 through the paces on the ASUS Xonar DGX, O2+ODAC, Magni 2 and the Asgard 2 and there is just no way the Realtek ALC1150 is driving them better than the Magni 3. I spent close to $300 buying the best motherboard I could get with it and on paper it sounds real great and being able to even push even 600 ohm headphones but I genuinely feel even the ASUS Xonar DGX edged it and it pales in comparison to the O2+ODAC, Magni 2 and especially the Asgard 2 in being able to drive the HD650 to insane volumes.
> 
> ...


As someone who also had the O2/ODAC, Magni, Xonar DG & STX, Asgard2, WA7d, and a few ROG mobo over the years I've found that why someone would select a O2/ODAC over a high end Mobo or go all the way to a EC Balancing Act for the HD650 is really a matter of personal taste, and depth of pockbook.

The O2/ODAC was one of the worst DAC/amp I've ever spent money on, it made all my headphones at the time thin, harsh and sibilant to me and the original M/M stack was not far behind.  Like @16 Bit Bowser I also felt that the HD650 and other headphones that I had sounded better to me on the STX and DG sound cards because I didn't really know what the HD650 could sound like and I was lucky enough to have a some friends who took the time to let me audition their gear and give a crash course on why some amps pair better with some headphones and not others.  My personal preference for the HD650 is a slightly modded BH Crack and Teac UD-301 amp but this combo does not appeal to my GF who says its slightly bright to her since her hearing is much better than mine.

I have a problem with you comment driving any headphone to insane volumes due the possibility of causing hearing damage or even damaging the drivers of the headphone.  This is another parameter that affects how individuals will perceive a given headphone, ie; most will call any Grado bright but to me if one listens at lower levels then the brightness of the Grado is not an issue, its like the old "loudness" switch that many vintage audio gear had for listening at lower levels.

Going back to the Magni3, I was asked by a friend about what I think about it since he needed an amp for office use and didn't want to wait until Feb when his CTH and LC-X are scheduled to be delivered and its why I specifically asked if anyone used the Magni3 with high impedance headphones such as the HD800, HD700 and T1 along with harder to drive planar headphones like the HE560.  LIke me he also dumped the O2/ODAC and Magni2 along with a Jot, AudioGD NFB 29? and a few others due to not pairing well with his collection of headphones.


----------



## nicoch46

with Realtek ALC1150  schiit  happened.....


----------



## MixMasterMan (Oct 9, 2017)

Guys, an amp should do one thing: provide power. You only need 1 or 2, tops (one clean, one colored/distorted/saturated aka "tube"). So... it should be simple. Does it work or not? If it doesn't, takes notes on comparisons, and try again! Don't believe the hype, and trust your ears!


----------



## Jimster480

GearMe said:


> Chuckle...am guessing most of us know the limits of human hearing and certainly no anger here; just comparing the areas you highlighted.
> 
> As I said...not a Schiit fanboy (original M/M stack was meh).  I just give them credit where it's due.  From an amping perspective (on paper), the Magni 3 would seem to be much better than the QH4 -- especially on less efficient headphones as it's ~7x as powerful with very low THD, IMD, SNR, etc.  On the plus side for the QH4, it does have a bevy of features/connectivity which look helpful if you're into recording/mixing/producing music.
> 
> That said, I use tubes to drive my inefficient, high impedance cans; which 'measure' worse for the most part...they just sound better (to me).


The thing is that most headphones these days are efficient.


----------



## GearMe

Jimster480 said:


> The thing is that most headphones these days are efficient.



Most of yours...I'm guessing!  Not mine  

Regardless, it really about how the music sounds to the _individual_ when they listen to it through their equipment;  which in this forum tends to be source, dac, amp, and cans (most impact on the sound experience...imo).  That said, the rest of the chain can make a difference...and let's not even discuss the heathens that use EQ!   .  

However, that's just the physical setup.  Let's not forget that this field is called *Psycho*acoustics for the simple reason that each individual is 'configured' differently including hearing capabilities, general demeanor, mood swings, musical likes/dislikes, etc.   How else can you explain that some people think the Grado signature is 'the best' while others like Senns more, and yet others prefer Audeze/Beyer/Focal/HiFiMan/Mr Speakers/Stax, etc.?

Nevermind those of us that take a horses for courses approach!

It's never as black/white as people make it out to be.  So...it's on each of us, as individuals, to figure out what works best for our listening needs.  Perfect example, MixMaster apparently really likes the solid state QH4 and feels it works fine for his higher impedance Senns & Beyers.  Me?  Not so much.

Funny thing is...we're both right!


----------



## RiflemanFirst

GearMe said:


> Most of yours...I'm guessing!  Not mine
> 
> Regardless, it really about how the music sounds to the _individual_ when they listen to it through their equipment;  which in this forum tends to be source, dac, amp, and cans (most impact on the sound experience...imo).  That said, the rest of the chain can make a difference...and let's not even discuss the heathens that use EQ!   .



Perception of audio is so subjective. While there is often a general consensus about specific types/models of equipment, everyone's hearing and preferences can vary significantly. I'm just thankful that I truly enjoy the sound from Mimby & Magni 3 with my headphones considering how inexpensive this stack is compared to higher end options. My wallet is definitely in agreement!


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## Envyous (Oct 9, 2017)

I went from O2+ODAC to Magni 3+Modi 2. I use Sennheiser HD650.

To me, this sounds like a big improvement.

It feels like the instruments around the vocals in music gets better spotlight, if that makes sense. In my old setup the vocals were pretty dominant.
More bassy too.


----------



## Jimster480

GearMe said:


> Most of yours...I'm guessing!  Not mine
> 
> Regardless, it really about how the music sounds to the _individual_ when they listen to it through their equipment;  which in this forum tends to be source, dac, amp, and cans (most impact on the sound experience...imo).  That said, the rest of the chain can make a difference...and let's not even discuss the heathens that use EQ!   .
> 
> ...


Yes music is all about preference and I won't argue that.
But most of the headphones coming out today are quite easy to drive.
Only german companies relying on ancient technology (Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic) have high ohm headphones with large power requirements.
Even most HifiMan headphones are pretty easy to drive.
Mrspeakers planars are pretty easy to drive, same with Oppo...
Look at the new Denon headphones... 32ohm or less! 
Panasonic and Focal... both have easy to drive sets of headphones.


----------



## AxelCloris

I've had to clean up a few recent posts. Please keep the discussion related to the Magni 3.


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## Jimster480 (Oct 10, 2017)

Envyous said:


> I went from O2+ODAC to Magni 3+Modi 2. I use Sennheiser HD650.
> 
> To me, this sounds like a big improvement.
> 
> ...


This is just because Magni 3 is brighter and if Modi 2 is anything like the Fulla 2 its brighter also.
You will notice sub-bass reduction and a bit of attenuation for the lower end.

I like the layout of my current Amps better for these reasons;
1. The fact that the light is a piercing white.
2. The volume knob is to the left of the headphone jack.
3. The L & R RCA inputs are reversed compared to the rest of my gear doesn't work for me.
4. The sub-bass is reduced vs my A30 & JDS o2 & Topping DX7 headphone out.
5. The Magni 3 is physically wider than both of my other Amps, so it doesnt stack properly.

Additional Info:
The Magni 3 works fine with TTRS Jacks Converted directly from 3.5mm->6.35mm unlike my Fulla 2.
I tested it specifically with my 1More Quad drivers.


----------



## DavidA

@Jimster480, I think you are finding that the Magni3 doesn't pair as well with your IEMs since the A30 has a bit more adjustments which I think lets it pair better with efficient IEMs.  Did you try full size headphones like a planar or higher impedance HD600/HD650?  If you have answered this question before sorry for asking again since the search feature doesn't work like the old site.  While I don't use any IEMs I would never consider an amp for an IEM due to most being very efficient.

1) agree that the piercing white LED that Schiit uses is a poor design choice, a dim blue or green would be my choice while my GF would like purple, pink or red.
2) Orientation of headphone jacks have never really bother me but depending on the set up I can see it being an issue for some.
3) L&R jacks being reversed is an interesting point, just looked at most of my gear and most are oriented like the Schiit but there are exceptions like the Ember, Bifrost (up-L and down-R), UD-301 (RCA up-L and down-R, XLR R&L output is like the Schiit).
4) The main issue
5) Not something I would have considered but an interesting point


----------



## decodm

DavidA said:


> @Jimster480, I think you are finding that the Magni3 doesn't pair as well with your IEMs since the A30 has a bit more adjustments which I think lets it pair better with efficient IEMs.  Did you try full size headphones like a planar or higher impedance HD600/HD650?  If you have answered this question before sorry for asking again since the search feature doesn't work like the old site.  *While I don't use any IEMs I would never consider an amp for an IEM due to most being very efficient.*
> 
> 1) agree that the piercing white LED that Schiit uses is a poor design choice, a dim blue or green would be my choice while my GF would like purple, pink or red.
> 2) Orientation of headphone jacks have never really bother me but depending on the set up I can see it being an issue for some.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Pardon my ignorance, but how would one use an external DAC without an amp?


----------



## DavidA

Pardon my ignorance, but how would one use an external DAC without an amp?[/QUOTE]
Good question, for me I wouldn't use a external DAC anyway if I were to ever use an IEM.  I would just drive the IEM from a DAP or phone, same as I do with my headphones that I take traveling with me since they are all fairly efficient so I have no need for an extra DAC/amp cluttering things up and adding unwanted weight. 

Hope this answers your question.


----------



## RickB

Silly question: if I keep my Magni 3 turned on all the time, how long do you think the LED would last? 5 years? 10 years?


----------



## CarlosUnchained

RickB said:


> Silly question: if I keep my Magni 3 turned on all the time, how long do you think the LED would last? 5 years? 10 years?



Average life expectancy of LED is 50.000 hours, that's ~5.7 years.
But if you want it so bad to die, you can just cover it and pretend is not there.


----------



## RickB

CarlosUnchained said:


> Average life expectancy of LED is 50.000 hours, that's ~5.7 years.
> But if you want it so bad to die, you can just cover it and pretend is not there.



Thanks. The LEDs have never bothered me. I want it to last, not burn out. But I'm sure I'll be on to something else in 5 1/2 years.


----------



## decodm

DavidA said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but how would one use an external DAC without an amp?


Good question, for me I wouldn't use a external DAC anyway if I were to ever use an IEM.  I would just drive the IEM from a DAP or phone, same as I do with my headphones that I take traveling with me since they are all fairly efficient so I have no need for an extra DAC/amp cluttering things up and adding unwanted weight.

Hope this answers your question.[/QUOTE]


Thanks! All my headphone use is on a desktop setup, so all those other use cases with IEMs didn't occur to me.


----------



## CarlosUnchained

RickB said:


> Thanks. The LEDs have never bothered me. I want it to last, not burn out. But I'm sure I'll be on to something else in 5 1/2 years.



Then, just turn it off.
Two hours a day makes 68.5 years of blinding white light on your face.

I know you said it wasn't a problem, just want the joke to go on.


----------



## Jimster480

DavidA said:


> @Jimster480, I think you are finding that the Magni3 doesn't pair as well with your IEMs since the A30 has a bit more adjustments which I think lets it pair better with efficient IEMs.  Did you try full size headphones like a planar or higher impedance HD600/HD650?  If you have answered this question before sorry for asking again since the search feature doesn't work like the old site.  While I don't use any IEMs I would never consider an amp for an IEM due to most being very efficient.
> 
> 1) agree that the piercing white LED that Schiit uses is a poor design choice, a dim blue or green would be my choice while my GF would like purple, pink or red.
> 2) Orientation of headphone jacks have never really bother me but depending on the set up I can see it being an issue for some.
> ...



The quad drivers require more power than my AH-MM400 Denon and alot more power than the Denon AH-D7200.
I also have Panasonic RP-HD10s and those need the volume knob to be at like 645 max or it is too loud.

I own no high-impedance headphones other than my Yamaha YH-2 which is 150 ohm and vintage planar magnetic. That requires about 75% volume, but most headphones these days don't require much power.
Even looking at the PM-3 or PM-1 or Mrspeakers Aeon.... none of those have high impedance and most are reasonably efficient.


----------



## GearMe

Jimster480 said:


> Yes music is all about preference and I won't argue that.
> But most of the headphones coming out today are quite easy to drive.
> Only german companies relying on ancient technology (Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic) have high ohm headphones with large power requirements.
> Even most HifiMan headphones are pretty easy to drive.
> ...



Hmmm, not sure I get your point. 

Still thinking it's about what sounds best to each of us...antiquated technology or not.  I would never choose a transducer based on efficiency -- cans or speakers.  It is a non-factor in my decision process as _it's really all about how it sounds to *me*_. 

BTW, I own every brand you've discussed and then some except Mr. Speakers which I'm strongly considering...despite their price point.   If a set of cans benefits from a pairing with an amp, I'll listen to it on that amp.  Otherwise, I'll plug and play at whatever listening station I happen to be closest to.

But dagnabit, I still like me some of that ole fashioned, high-impedance technology when it comes to having an organic/integrated sound!  Just takes a while to crank up 'bessie'...she's the generator next to the outhouse.

...proud owner of antiquated headphone technology since 1975


----------



## Jimster480

GearMe said:


> Hmmm, not sure I get your point.
> 
> Still thinking it's about what sounds best to each of us...antiquated technology or not.  I would never choose a transducer based on efficiency -- cans or speakers.  It is a non-factor in my decision process as _it's really all about how it sounds to *me*_.
> 
> ...



I mean I understand having headphones from those brands, I'm not saying that either brand is bad. I'm just saying they require alot of impedance based on older technology. its fine as long as it works.... but if you don't have any of those headphones it shouldn't be a problem.

This is also why I don't understand the reason that Amp companies keep making Amps with more and more power....
3W RMS? For what reason? Which pair of headphones is going to use that? We can drive small speakers with 3W RMS and they can fill an entire friggin room LOL
Schiit is not the only company doing this, but it really makes no sense as most modern headphones are easy to drive and as technology gets better they get easier per year.


----------



## DavidA

Impedance and efficiency are two different parameters/specs.  As for amps being made more powerful its also the voltage swing, output impedance of the amp, which order harmonics are prevalent, and many other parameters that affect how an amp will pair with a headphone but most manufactures advertise power (watts) output since this is the one and only spec that the average person looks at and none of the other specs don't get any consideration.  The "more wattage means its better" is the most common thinking and it doesn't help that so many keep parroting the saying that X headphone needs a lot of power to sound good when its the other design parameter of the amp that actually make it sound good with X headphone.  One reason that many powerful amps actually sound better is that they are usually made with better components, use technically better designs, and in some cases may have better QC during the manufacturing process and I think this is where the Magni3 is improved over the first and second generation Magni amps.  The design of the Magni3 seems to take advantage of the latest electronics advances in electronics and we as customers are the beneficiaries of these improvements with good gear at a good price.


----------



## Jimster480

DavidA said:


> Impedance and efficiency are two different parameters/specs.  As for amps being made more powerful its also the voltage swing, output impedance of the amp, which order harmonics are prevalent, and many other parameters that affect how an amp will pair with a headphone but most manufactures advertise power (watts) output since this is the one and only spec that the average person looks at and none of the other specs don't get any consideration.  The "more wattage means its better" is the most common thinking and it doesn't help that so many keep parroting the saying that X headphone needs a lot of power to sound good when its the other design parameter of the amp that actually make it sound good with X headphone.  One reason that many powerful amps actually sound better is that they are usually made with better components, use technically better designs, and in some cases may have better QC during the manufacturing process and I think this is where the Magni3 is improved over the first and second generation Magni amps.  The design of the Magni3 seems to take advantage of the latest electronics advances in electronics and we as customers are the beneficiaries of these improvements with good gear at a good price.




 yes I understand yes I understand what you are saying. But efficiency is not low on any new headphones either. Voltage sling is also not so common anymore as most good headphones have very minimal voltage swings. Most even have very minimal impedance Response curves.

 compared to my other amps  I only found that the magni three uses more power and loses some sub bass.  additionally it is a tad brighter causing me to adjust my headphone volume more often especially when listening to classical music.

 but other but other than this there were no changes in the sound itself. After all it is an amplifier and is not capable of creating more detail.

It also gets alot hotter than the other amps and causes the whole stack to get warm (since it's in the center).


----------



## DavidA

I have 3 room heaters in the Lyr2, Asgard2 and BH Crack, LOL.

So you are saying the Magni3 is brighter than your A30, DX7 and Fulla2?  I though most were saying that the Magni3 is on the warmer side, or are the A30, DX7 and Fulla2 that warm that it makes the Magni3 seem bright?  Think I'm going to tell my friend to pass on the Magni3 since the headphone he will be using are HD800, HD700, T1 and HE560 and possibly add the Atticus or Eikon in a few months.
A few post before you are saying that some IEMs need a lot of power? is it due to being lower in efficiency or higher impedance?

We may be talking apples and oranges since I don't use IEMs and you don't have planar or high impedance headphones which i have many of.


----------



## Jimster480

DavidA said:


> I have 3 room heaters in the Lyr2, Asgard2 and BH Crack, LOL.
> 
> So you are saying the Magni3 is brighter than your A30, DX7 and Fulla2?  I though most were saying that the Magni3 is on the warmer side, or are the A30, DX7 and Fulla2 that warm that it makes the Magni3 seem bright?  Think I'm going to tell my friend to pass on the Magni3 since the headphone he will be using are HD800, HD700, T1 and HE560 and possibly add the Atticus or Eikon in a few months.
> A few post before you are saying that some IEMs need a lot of power? is it due to being lower in efficiency or higher impedance?
> ...



Not the fulla 2, I never compared it to my Fulla 2 as that has been in its box for most of the year.
I am saying the DX7 and the A30 and the JDS Labs o2 Amp.
The o2 sounds identical to the A30 and the DX7, the Magni is brighter than everything else with slightly reduced sub bass.
I tested this on 4 pairs of headphones & 1 IEM.
1More Quad Driver (IEM), Denon AH-MM400 (a neutral headphone), Denon AH-D7200 (a dark "reference" headphone), Panasonic RP-HD10 (a very bright headphone), Yamaha YH-2 (a mid-centric highly detailed vintage planar).

The 1More Quad has 32ohm impedance, it requires a higher volume setting than the D7200 (24 ohm), RP-HD10 (18 ohm) and roughly the same as the AH-MM400 (also 32 ohm).
The YH-2 is 150 ohm and as such its harder to drive, but all headphones have the same result.


----------



## DavidA

Jimster480 said:


> Not the fulla 2, I never compared it to my Fulla 2 as that has been in its box for most of the year.
> I am saying the DX7 and the A30 and the JDS Labs o2 Amp.
> The o2 sounds identical to the A30 and the DX7, the Magni is brighter than everything else with slightly reduced sub bass.
> I tested this on 4 pairs of headphones & 1 IEM.
> ...



What I underlined is my issue with recommending the Magni3 to my friend.  He and I both bought into the hype of the O2 a few years ago and were very disappointed with it.  For me it made all my headphones at the time sound thin, harsh and left me wondering WTH are people on.  At this point i tried the original M/M stack (which was better than the O2/ODAC IMO but still on the bright since with most of my headphones) and Topping VX1 (which I liked since it also was used to power some Micca desktop speakers).  Thankfully someone recommend the Ember and it turned out to be one of the best amps I have due to its versatility and it seems to pair fairly well with almost any headphone that I've tried with it.


----------



## RickB

In my system, I don't find the Magni 3 to be very bright. And, it barely gets warm at all. My Modi Multibit gets noticeably hotter.


----------



## Jimster480

DavidA said:


> What I underlined is my issue with recommending the Magni3 to my friend.  He and I both bought into the hype of the O2 a few years ago and were very disappointed with it.  For me it made all my headphones at the time sound thin, harsh and left me wondering WTH are people on.  At this point i tried the original M/M stack (which was better than the O2/ODAC IMO but still on the bright since with most of my headphones) and Topping VX1 (which I liked since it also was used to power some Micca desktop speakers).  Thankfully someone recommend the Ember and it turned out to be one of the best amps I have due to its versatility and it seems to pair fairly well with almost any headphone that I've tried with it.



If you have heavy headphones then the o2 isn't the best option for you since its power is limited. 
But that is only if you have really heavy headphones because it has enough power for most. So what you might consider "harsh" and "thin" is more like "not super bloated bass", which is what alot of people like. 

There is no hype around the O2, its well build and is very neutral. Clearly you like the really warm sound of tubes and that is fine as music is about preference.
The Schiit Modi/Magni stack are ultra bright and in every way worse than the o2/ODAC if you like a warm sound.


----------



## hikaru12

Just got my Magni 3 in. Initial impressions are it definitely sounds warm and while power has increased I still find myself at the same volume position as the Magni 2. This amp depending on your setup (in my case tubes) may reduce clarity of your setup in favor of a more laid back presentation. Someone with a solid state DAC may be able to chime in better. That said, you will hear little details in your music. They're subtle but they're there. Liking the preamp for my AE A2+


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut

I was considering the Magni 3 but the impressions of this amp are all over the place.


----------



## Zbell

Lost Cosmonaut said:


> I was considering the Magni 3 but the impressions of this amp are all over the place.



I purchased the Magni 3 and thinks it's a great value for $100.  Compared to my Magni 2U (which is at work now), it's way smoother up top (warmer), has more defined bass, but is also a tiny bit thinner sounding.  Overall it's less bloated and the soundstage is tweaked a bit.  I think it's a deeper soundstage, but also sits a little more forward in my head if that makes sense.  These are just my impressions though.


----------



## Mkoll

RickB said:


> In my system, I don't find the Magni 3 to be very bright. And, it barely gets warm at all. My Modi Multibit gets noticeably hotter.


That's been my experience as well. I use the Magni on low gain, usually less than 12 o'clock. It just gets a little warm. The Mimby gets close to the edge of too hot to touch.


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut

Zbell said:


> I purchased the Magni 3 and thinks it's a great value for $100.  Compared to my Magni 2U (which is at work now), it's way smoother up top (warmer), has more defined bass, but is also a tiny bit thinner sounding.  Overall it's less bloated and the soundstage is tweaked a bit.  I think it's a deeper soundstage, but also sits a little more forward in my head if that makes sense.  These are just my impressions though.



I used to have the Magni 2U, but I had an issue with the imaging. I found the sound to be, as some have described, too "compressed". 
A long with some conflicting impressions, my experience with the Magni 2U has made me hesitant about buying the Magni 3


----------



## Zbell

Lost Cosmonaut said:


> I used to have the Magni 2U, but I had an issue with the imaging. I found the sound to be, as some have described, too "compressed".
> A long with some conflicting impressions, my experience with the Magni 2U has made me hesitant about buying the Magni 3



I definitely like the soundstage on the Magni 3 better, but honestly I was never really bothered by the soundstage on 2U.  The biggest difference is definitely the more relaxed treble IMO, which is a huge improvement for me, because my cans are bit bright to begin with.  I think it's a great amp for the price range, unelss you want to spend $300+ in which case I'm sure there are many other, better options.


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut

Zbell said:


> I definitely like the soundstage on the Magni 3 better, but honestly I was never really bothered by the soundstage on 2U.  The biggest difference is definitely the more relaxed treble IMO, which is a huge improvement for me, because my cans are bit bright to begin with.  I think it's a great amp for the price range, unelss you want to spend $300+ in which case I'm sure there are many other, better options.



I'm a stickler for soundstage and, in particular, imaging. 

If I recall correctly, the treble on the 2U never really bothered me but then again I don't have any bright headphones.


----------



## wilflare

okay I'm back here again.
the Magni3 sounds great (together with the Mimby) on my Philips Fidelio X1

I was using the audinst HUD-mx1 previously so I do miss being able to switch between my headphones and speakers just by toggling the dip-switch (as opposed to plugging my headphones in/out on the Schiit).

so I also use my Magni3 as a pre-amp to my KEF LS50W (so as to maximise my Schiit Mimby).
- is there a volume I'm suppose to set the Magni3 at?
- setting the Magni3 at max volume (when using it with my speakers) seem to create distortion when the songs peak (refer to Adele's Hello during the chorus).
- I was under the impression that the Magni3, acting as a pre-amp, should have its volume at max... since it does "nothing", there shouldn't be those distortion? Or am I misunderstanding something?


----------



## CarlosUnchained

wilflare said:


> okay I'm back here again.
> the Magni3 sounds great (together with the Mimby) on my Philips Fidelio X1
> 
> I was using the audinst HUD-mx1 previously so I do miss being able to switch between my headphones and speakers just by toggling the dip-switch (as opposed to plugging my headphones in/out on the Schiit).
> ...



Avoid using the Magni 3 as a preamp then, it's variable pre outs. Mimby to KEFs and control the volume on them should do the trick.


----------



## Jimster480

hikaru12 said:


> Just got my Magni 3 in. Initial impressions are it definitely sounds warm and while power has increased I still find myself at the same volume position as the Magni 2. This amp depending on your setup (in my case tubes) may reduce clarity of your setup in favor of a more laid back presentation. Someone with a solid state DAC may be able to chime in better. That said, you will hear little details in your music. They're subtle but they're there. Liking the preamp for my AE A2+




By warm you mean by warm you mean warmer than the previous generation right?


Lost Cosmonaut said:


> I was considering the Magni 3 but the impressions of this amp are all over the place.



I would recommend a Topping A30 or a JDS o2. 


Zbell said:


> I definitely like the soundstage on the Magni 3 better, but honestly I was never really bothered by the soundstage on 2U.  The biggest difference is definitely the more relaxed treble IMO, which is a huge improvement for me, because my cans are bit bright to begin with.  I think it's a great amp for the price range, unelss you want to spend $300+ in which case I'm sure there are many other, better options.



Maybe in terms of pure power output yes. 
Otherwise no. 
It does say that in the box (that it's the best in its price range) and yes it does have the most exotic topology and a high power output. 
But I still stand by the Topping A30 as the best all around low cost amp. 
Despite its higher output impedance, it's not an issue for most modern headphones which don't need much dampening (if any) and have mostly flat impedance responses. 
The rollable OP-Amps allows you to upgrade it some with a LM4562 or a NE5532 or any other one of your favorite OP Amps. 

But if you have other Schiit products (especially something like the Modi Multibit) then the Magni 3 is the definite choice because it should balance nicely. 
The Modi Multibit was too dark for the neutral A30 or the o2.


----------



## hikaru12

Jimster480 said:


> By warm you mean by warm you mean warmer than the previous generation right?



Yes. The treble has definitely been rolled off which is actually good because if you had peaks or bright headphones they became sibilant in the Magni 2. I do however find the sound a little too laid back when paired with tubes. Curious to try mine with a Mimby. I'm hoping I won't end up with the same too laid back sound as well as the Mimby is described as warm as well.


----------



## wilflare

CarlosUnchained said:


> Avoid using the Magni 3 as a preamp then, it's variable pre outs. Mimby to KEFs and control the volume on them should do the trick.



thanks! I'll see how I can work that out I guess.
Using the Mimby to KEFs directly would mean that my Magni3 (and thus headphones) would have no access to the Mimby - there's only one pre-out on the Mimby


----------



## hikaru12

wilflare said:


> thanks! I'll see how I can work that out I guess.
> Using the Mimby to KEFs directly would mean that my Magni3 (and thus headphones) would have no access to the Mimby - there's only one pre-out on the Mimby



You don't need to do that if your speakers have volume control. I was running into the same issue and i just turned the volume down on the speakers to half way. Now, even if I use high gain of the M3 there is no distortion. Hope this helps.


----------



## wilflare

hikaru12 said:


> You don't need to do that if your speakers have volume control. I was running into the same issue and i just turned the volume down on the speakers to half way. Now, even if I use high gain of the M3 there is no distortion. Hope this helps.



hmm. thanks! just to confirm - what's the volume setting on your Magni3 then when you are using speakers?


----------



## hikaru12

wilflare said:


> hmm. thanks! just to confirm - what's the volume setting on your Magni3 then when you are using speakers?



Right now I'm running it at 11 o clock/noon. I'm also using a OTG cable for my DAC so if you're using a desktop solution with high output voltage you shouldn't need to turn it up very much at all.


----------



## RickB

wilflare said:


> hmm. thanks! just to confirm - what's the volume setting on your Magni3 then when you are using speakers?



On my Audioengine A2s, the instructions recommended that I put the speakers' volume control at 2 o'clock and control the volume from the preamp. I got no distortion, but the speaker volume setting will probably be different for your speakers.


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut

Jimster480 said:


> I would recommend a Topping A30 or a JDS o2.



I might not need an amp--the ones I have are more than adequate--but I have been considering the O2.  I like to mix-and-match my HD650 with different amps and I just got the Fostex T-X0, too, and it's quite power hungry.


----------



## wilflare

RickB said:


> On my Audioengine A2s, the instructions recommended that I put the speakers' volume control at 2 o'clock and control the volume from the preamp. I got no distortion, but the speaker volume setting will probably be different for your speakers.



thanks guys! when you mean instructions, is it something from Audioengine or Schiit?


----------



## RickB

wilflare said:


> thanks guys! when you mean instructions, is it something from Audioengine or Schiit?



It was instructions from Audioengine. They recommended setting the speaker volume to 2 or 3 o'clock, if I recall correctly. Then, since the A2s have the volume control on the back of the left speaker, they said to control the volume from the preamp.


----------



## erics75

Lost Cosmonaut said:


> I might not need an amp--the ones I have are more than adequate--but I have been considering the O2.  I like to mix-and-match my HD650 with different amps and I just got the Fostex T-X0, too, and it's quite power hungry.


I think the m3 sounds great with my hd650 and t50rp mk3. If you're in the fence, I'd say for $99 give it a try. To my ears the m3 sounds like a slightly clearer asgard 2. Not too bad for $99. Another amp I loved with the hd650 was the ifi scan se. The bass and treble toggles were really useful to fine tune the sound signatures of my headphones.


----------



## Jimster480

Lost Cosmonaut said:


> I might not need an amp--the ones I have are more than adequate--but I have been considering the O2.  I like to mix-and-match my HD650 with different amps and I just got the Fostex T-X0, too, and it's quite power hungry.



What amp do you have now? 
The o2 is a great amp but only 600mw at 32ohm I think.


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut

Jimster480 said:


> What amp do you have now?
> The o2 is a great amp but only 600mw at 32ohm I think.



Fostex HP-V1, Tralucent T1, Ibasso PB3 Mockingbird, and my very first amp, the JDS Labs cMoyBB v2.03

The Fostex and Tralucent both push the HD650 and T-X0, and even the R70x when I had it, with ease. PB3 maxes out with the HD650 but interestingly not with the T-X0. However, the cMoy, which is more of a novelty item for me, pushes the HD650 but distorts with the T-X0.

I generally prefer portables and transportables so that I wouldn't be tethered to one spot but I'd buy a desktop amp again if it's a significant improvement and a good deal.


----------



## alpovs

Lost Cosmonaut said:


> I used to have the Magni 2U, but I had an issue with the imaging. I found the sound to be, as some have described, too "compressed".
> A long with some conflicting impressions, my experience with the Magni 2U has made me hesitant about buying the Magni 3


When you have good headphones and good amps the source becomes very important. No good amp can improve a bad source. What's your DAC?


----------



## Jimster480

Lost Cosmonaut said:


> Fostex HP-V1, Tralucent T1, Ibasso PB3 Mockingbird, and my very first amp, the JDS Labs cMoyBB v2.03
> 
> The Fostex and Tralucent both push the HD650 and T-X0, and even the R70x when I had it, with ease. PB3 maxes out with the HD650 but interestingly not with the T-X0. However, the cMoy, which is more of a novelty item for me, pushes the HD650 but distorts with the T-X0.
> 
> I generally prefer portables and transportables so that I wouldn't be tethered to one spot but I'd buy a desktop amp again if it's a significant improvement and a good deal.



 I don't I don't think that any desktop amplifier is going to give you a significant improvement over what you already have. But if you need a nother portable amp I know that both fiio and Topping have some decent offerings for low prices. Also people speak highly of IFI products


----------



## wilflare

RickB said:


> It was instructions from Audioengine. They recommended setting the speaker volume to 2 or 3 o'clock, if I recall correctly. Then, since the A2s have the volume control on the back of the left speaker, they said to control the volume from the preamp.



thanks! don't think I have something like that for the KEF L50W :/


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut (Oct 11, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> I don't I don't think that any desktop amplifier is going to give you a significant improvement over what you already have. But if you need a nother portable amp I know that both fiio and Topping have some decent offerings for low prices. Also people speak highly of IFI products



Is it the Topping NX2S?



alpovs said:


> When you have good headphones and good amps the source becomes very important. No good amp can improve a bad source. What's your DAC?



Previously, I used The Element by JDS Labs. Now, I just use my iBasso DX80 and Cayin N3 as DACs.

Other than that, I have an old Pioneer PL-570 record player and an old Yamaha CR-1020 receiver that I occasionally plug my headphones into.


----------



## Jimster480

Those are both DAPs, but you are using them as DAC's?


----------



## RickB

wilflare said:


> thanks! don't think I have something like that for the KEF L50W :/



In this case, the preamp would be the Magni 3.


----------



## NA Blur (Oct 11, 2017)

-ImageX said:


> I’m going to get it figured out. I know Schiit has a great reputation and makes excellent gear from all my research. I appreciate all the help and recommendations. I’m just getting started down this rabbitt hole of a hobby!


Check that your incoming volume settings are at least set to 90%. This includes your DAC volume if you can control it, but more importantly your PC volume settings and your audio player settings should be at least 90 % volume. Try that and check again. Also check that the cables are fully seated on your Sennheisers.


----------



## DavidA

wilflare said:


> thanks! I'll see how I can work that out I guess.
> Using the Mimby to KEFs directly would mean that my Magni3 (and thus headphones) would have no access to the Mimby - there's only one pre-out on the Mimby


You could use something like this to split the output of the Mimby:
https://www.parts-express.com/gold-rca-y-(1)-male-to-(2)-right-angle-female-red--091-510
https://www.parts-express.com/parts...male-to-(2)-right-angle-female-black--091-515
might be the cheapest and easiest, I use these to split the output of my Bimby to two different amps and also to split the output of my UD-301 to two different amps.


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut

Jimster480 said:


> Those are both DAPs, but you are using them as DAC's?



I should’ve said DAPs but they essentially serve as DACs for the amps… 

But the DX80 can be used as a stand alone DAC/AMP, too.


----------



## Jimster480

Lost Cosmonaut said:


> I should’ve said DAPs but they essentially serve as DACs for the amps…
> 
> But the DX80 can be used as a stand alone DAC/AMP, too.


. 
I see. But if you use it at your desk hen why not have desktop equipment?


----------



## alpovs

Lost Cosmonaut said:


> Previously, I used The Element by JDS Labs. Now, I just use my iBasso DX80 and Cayin N3 as DACs.
> 
> Other than that, I have an old Pioneer PL-570 record player and an old Yamaha CR-1020 receiver that I occasionally plug my headphones into.


If you had "compressed" imaging with the Magni 2U which amp(s) didn't have this "compression"? Given used with the same DAC/DAP.


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut

Jimster480 said:


> .
> I see. But if you use it at your desk hen why not have desktop equipment?



I don't listen to my equipment at my desk. I don't like being fixed to one spot when I listen to music. That isn't to say I'm not interested in an amp like the Magni 3--the M3 is small; the only thing cumbersome about it is that wall wart.


----------



## Jimster480

Lost Cosmonaut said:


> I don't listen to my equipment at my desk. I don't like being fixed to one spot when I listen to music. That isn't to say I'm not interested in an amp like the Magni 3--the M3 is small; the only thing cumbersome about it is that wall wart.


Oh okay, that makes sense then.
If I got a DAP it would have to be something that supports spotify.
Right now I have a iPod touch and that does everything I need since most of my listening outside of the house is in my cars and the iPod has the best interface.


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut

alpovs said:


> If you had "compressed" imaging with the Magni 2U which amp(s) didn't have this "compression"? Given used with the same DAC/DAP.



Someone else used the term "compressed" in here, so I just borrowed that term--I think they were referring to soundstage and imaging. If I recall correctly, every amp I have, or have had, had better soundstage and imaging than the 2U. But I first noticed this when I compared the 2U to the Nuforce HA-200 I had at the time. Granted, the HA-200 is a class A amp and retails at over $100 more than the 2U. However, I must add, that soundstage and imaging were the only issues I've had with the 2U. Other than that, I think it's a fine amp.


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut

Jimster480 said:


> Oh okay, that makes sense then.
> If I got a DAP it would have to be something that supports spotify.
> Right now I have a iPod touch and that does everything I need since most of my listening outside of the house is in my cars and the iPod has the best interface.



Yeah a lot of DAPs are buggy which why I haven't upgraded. But you can use Spotify with the Cayin N3 if you pair it up with your phone.


----------



## Jimster480

Lost Cosmonaut said:


> Yeah a lot of DAPs are buggy which why I haven't upgraded. But you can use Spotify with the Cayin N3 if you pair it up with your phone.


Makes sense, the ipod touch is actually great.
I can use my FiiO K1 to drive any of my headphones if I need it aswell


----------



## DavidA

Lost Cosmonaut said:


> Yeah a lot of DAPs are buggy which why I haven't upgraded. But you can use Spotify with the Cayin N3 if you pair it up with your phone.


Which DAPs were "buggy" to you?  I still have my original Fiio X3 (crap interface but great sounding), Fiio X3ii (decent but does not sound as good as the X3) and 2 Fiio X1, haven't had any problems with any but aside from the X3 none were/are used on a daily basis.  Also just "inherited" a ipod touch from an old GF and I don't like that I have to use iTunes to load music on it.
My friend just got his Magni3 since it was too late to cancel the order so he said he'll give it a chance at his office for a few days and let me know what he thinks of it and might stop by to borrow my Asgard2.


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut (Oct 11, 2017)

DavidA said:


> Which DAPs were "buggy" to you?  I still have my original Fiio X3 (crap interface but great sounding), Fiio X3ii (decent but does not sound as good as the X3) and 2 Fiio X1, haven't had any problems with any but aside from the X3 none were/are used on a daily basis.  Also just "inherited" a ipod touch from an old GF and I don't like that I have to use iTunes to load music on it.



There are many accounts of various DAPs with problematic software and UI. Some Fiio DAPs are notoriously buggy, specifically the android based ones like the X5iii and X7.

I had an android-based Cowon Plenue that constantly crashed and froze. My DX80 was fraught with problems, too, but the very last firmware fixed most of it. I think the one lingering issue might be hardware-related.

In terms of software, the iPod and iTouch are very stable, which is no surprise. I have an old iPod with a click wheel that still works fine.

But DAPs have developed substantially in recent years; the Fiio X7ii is supposed to be really good.



DavidA said:


> My friend just got his Magni3 since it was too late to cancel the order so he said he'll give it a chance at his office for a few days and let me know what he thinks of it and might stop by to borrow my Asgard2.



I'm looking forward to your impression of the Magni 3.


----------



## wilflare

RickB said:


> In this case, the preamp would be the Magni 3.



thanks! what would you suggest to be a good volume to set the Magni3 at?
I always thought it should be 100% as any lower there's some vagueness and randomness to it :/


----------



## RickB

wilflare said:


> thanks! what would you suggest to be a good volume to set the Magni3 at?
> I always thought it should be 100% as any lower there's some vagueness and randomness to it :/



I suggest you set the speakers at a fixed volume (assuming they have a volume control?) and control the volume from the Magni.


----------



## wilflare

RickB said:


> I suggest you set the speakers at a fixed volume (assuming they have a volume control?) and control the volume from the Magni.



ah they do. but there's no indication on the volume but guess I'll reset it and start from scratch :/


----------



## RickB

wilflare said:


> ah they do. but there's no indication on the volume but guess I'll reset it and start from scratch :/



I suggest you set the speaker volume control to 2 or 3 o'clock. Then just use the Magni to control volume.


----------



## cyclops214

I placed my order for one today Unfortunately They are on backorder 7 to 10 Business days.


----------



## treecloud

What I like about the idea of the Magni 3 is the Loki. What I mean by that is the Magni 3 is a good candidate for EQ because of it's clean power, and combined with clean and smart EQ (the Loki) every headphone you have with dynamic capability and low distortion develops multiple personality disorder  

I've noticed cans using planar drivers seem to absorb more bass boost than dynamic drivers, they might be the ideal choice for the magni loki combo.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

treecloud said:


> What I like about the idea of the Magni 3 is the Loki. What I mean by that is the Magni 3 is a good candidate for EQ because of it's clean power, and combined with clean and smart EQ (the Loki) every headphone you have with dynamic capability and low distortion develops multiple personality disorder
> 
> I've noticed cans using planar drivers seem to absorb more bass boost than dynamic drivers, they might be the ideal choice for the magni loki combo.



I am quite agree with this actually. I have both of them and they pair pretty well with each other. I only used them with dynamic headphones but I am getting lcd2c in the future and see how the combo works with planar.


----------



## XERO1 (Oct 13, 2017)

cyclops214 said:


> I placed my order for one today Unfortunately They are on backorder 7 to 10 Business days.


I just got mine today, and trust me, it's *more* than worth the wait!

Even after only a couple hours of warm-up, it sounds _*stupid good*_ for $99!!  It _definitely_ betters the Magni 2U in the mids, treble and soundstage!


----------



## MixMasterMan

Lost Cosmonaut said:


> Someone else used the term "compressed" in here, so I just borrowed that term--I think they were referring to soundstage and imaging. If I recall correctly, every amp I have, or have had, had better soundstage and imaging than the 2U. But I first noticed this when I compared the 2U to the Nuforce HA-200 I had at the time. Granted, the HA-200 is a class A amp and retails at over $100 more than the 2U. However, I must add, that soundstage and imaging were the only issues I've had with the 2U. Other than that, I think it's a fine amp.



I mentioned that the magni 2 was compressed. It is. That's what I meant. Quieter elements in the audio are pushed forward. It gives you the initial impression of hearing more detail, but it's actually decreased dynamic range. Like someone slapped a compressor on the signal. Again, I don't know if the magni 3 does the same thing. Apparently, it doesn't.


----------



## cyclops214

XERO1 said:


> I just got mine today, and trust me, it's *more* than worth the wait!
> 
> Even after only a couple hours of warm-up, it sounds _*stupid good*_ for $99!!  It _definitely_ betters the Magni 2U in the mids, treble and soundstage!


I just got the news They shipped Mine Out today. Since I'm less than two hours away from the factory it Should be here tomorrow. I can't wait.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

XERO1 said:


> I just got mine today, and trust me, it's *more* than worth the wait!
> 
> Even after only a couple hours of warm-up, it sounds _*stupid good*_ for $99!!  It _definitely_ betters the Magni 2U in the mids, treble and soundstage!



I'm curious to hear your impressions about driving the TH-X00 EBs with the Magni 3 compared to your other amps. I found that my TH-X00 EBs really cleaned up and became more lively with the Magni 3 compared to the Vali 2 I was using previously.


----------



## XERO1 (Oct 13, 2017)

RiflemanFirst said:


> I'm curious to hear your impressions about driving the TH-X00 EBs with the Magni 3 compared to your other amps. I found that my TH-X00 EBs really cleaned up and became more lively with the Magni 3 compared to the Vali 2 I was using previously.


Hey, we're twins! 

To my ears, the Jot is still technically superior, but only with my most *pristine* sounding reference tracks.  Anything less than perfection, and the Jot will tell you _exactly_ how imperfect it is. 
For everything other than my reference stuff, I'm actually preferring the Magni 3 over the Jot! 

The Magni 3 has a uniquely pleasing character that's all its own.  It's very transparent but without being harsh at all.  I'm honestly a little shocked at how good it is, _*especially*_ for the price. 

So not to overhype things, 'cuz of course it's not perfect, but I honestly consider the Magni 3 to be 'entry-level end-game' (I just made that up!).

*Major* kudos to Jason for knocking it outta the park with this little guy!


----------



## Jimster480

XERO1 said:


> Hey, we're twins!
> 
> To my ears, the Jot is still technically superior, but only with my most *pristine* sounding reference tracks.  Anything less than perfection, and the Jot will tell you _exactly_ how imperfect it is.
> For everything other than my reference stuff, I'm actually preferring the Magni 3 over the Jot!
> ...



I wouldnt say its transparent. Compared to all the rest of my Amps it has less Sub-bass and has un-necessary treble peaks at a specific high frequency.


----------



## XERO1 (Oct 19, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> I wouldnt say its transparent. Compared to all the rest of my Amps it has less Sub-bass and has un-necessary treble peaks at a specific high frequency.



One man's trash is another man's treasure.  'Tis the way of the world....


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Jimster480 said:


> I wouldnt say its transparent. Compared to all the rest of my Amps it has less Sub-bass and has un-necessary treble peaks at a specific high frequency.



I am quite agree with the sub-bass but never had any issue with treble peaks. What kind of headphone that you use?


----------



## Jimster480

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I am quite agree with the sub-bass but never had any issue with treble peaks. What kind of headphone that you use?



I tried 1More Quad drivers, Yamaha YH-2, Denon AH-D7200, Denon AH-MM400, Panasonic RP-HD10.
It appears on all of them, if you dont listen to piano music then its unlikely you will come across it.
It can also happen in certain violin pieces.


----------



## GearMe

Hmmm...had harshness with my original M/M stack...not with M3.  That said, I haven't hooked it up to the original Modi and am beginning to wonder if that's the primary culprit in my old work set up.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Jimster480 said:


> I tried 1More Quad drivers, Yamaha YH-2, Denon AH-D7200, Denon AH-MM400, Panasonic RP-HD10.
> It appears on all of them, if you dont listen to piano music then its unlikely you will come across it.
> It can also happen in certain violin pieces.



Good to know. I'll try listen to piano music with my hd800 later and update about it after.


----------



## kman1211

GearMe said:


> Hmmm...had harshness with my original M/M stack...not with M3.  That said, I haven't hooked it up to the original Modi and am beginning to wonder if that's the primary culprit in my old work set up.



It probably is the Modi 1 as I tried the original Magni on a few brighter headphones and didn't find it harsh. The original Modi isn't very good imho, too lean and harsh.


----------



## Jimster480

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Good to know. I'll try listen to piano music with my hd800 later and update about it after.


Looking forward to it!


----------



## chicken beer

Marlowe said:


> But if you want to use the unbalanced Mimby, you probably can't take advantage of the Jot's balanced output. I was trying to decide between the Jotunheim and Valhalla 2 for an amp upgrade and asked Schiit if I could get the benefit of the increased power of the Jotunheim's balanced outputs if I continued to use Mimby as my DAC. Their response: "If you go with Mimby as your DAC, you won't get a truly balanced configuration." (I did ask Schiit to clarify whether or not I would be able to use the more powerful balanced outputs of the Jotunheim even if, as I already knew, the setup was not truly balanced, but surprisingly got no response.) I bought the Vahalla 2, which should be delivered tomorrow.
> 
> BTW, if you really want to go balanced, you might want to consider the Cavalli Liquid Carbon X, which is available now on Massdrop. It has a very different topology than the Jotunheim, using phase splitters on its single ended inputs to create a balanced signal through the amp. According to Cavalli and Massdrop, you can connect an unbalanced DAC to the RCA inputs and still get a balanced output. I seriously considered this, but aside from leaning to tubes for my HD700 and incoming 6XX, the LCX is not estimated to ship until February 28, 2018, in the end a deal breaker.




I'm glad Schiit didn't reply, because whatever they replied will not be an honest answer. The imbalanced transmission between the Mimby and Jot will be transparent enough that even humans with a golden-ear won't tell a difference...


----------



## Jimster480

chicken beer said:


> I'm glad Schiit didn't reply, because whatever they replied will not be an honest answer. The imbalanced transmission between the Mimby and Jot will be transparent enough that even humans with a golden-ear won't tell a difference...


You are right that there is no difference between balanced and not balanced amps these days. 
But balanced DAC can often bring out more details just because the chips are able to focus all of their resources on a single channel.


----------



## chicken beer

qqqqdd123 said:


> I think T90 and HD800 has similar sound style. But definitely, HD800 is in another level. You will love it with an tube amp.



Another level in terms of imaging.


----------



## chicken beer

Jimster480 said:


> You are right that there is no difference between balanced and not balanced amps these days.
> But balanced DAC can often bring out more details just because the chips are able to focus all of their resources on a single channel.



Yeah that's true.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Jimster480 said:


> Looking forward to it!



I listen to a couple beethoven and chopin songs in the last 3 hours via tidal hifi. I noticed a few times where high pitch notes came out but it is not anywhere near to uncomfortable level for me. Personally, I am not a frequent piano songs listener so I am not sure how unnecessary peaks would be.


----------



## DavidA

I was at a friends house today and got to listen with his Magni3 + MHDT Pagoda and Metrum Musette DACs (also O2, A30, Asgard2 and Liquid Carbon), for the price its a really good deal but it not something I would suggest for those with HD800, T1, HE560, HD700 or K812.  It seems to shrink or not present the wide sound stages of these headphones known for wide sound stages.  The Magni3 was a better than the O2 and A30 when used with the HD600, HE400i, DT-990, Ether, GS1000e and RS2e since it brought out a bit more bass/sub-bass along with slightly smoothing out the highs on these otherwise slightly bright headphones.  Compared to the Asgard2 its a touch warmer but the sound stage of the Asgard2 is better and the LC while 6 times the cost is a better amp for all the headphones we tried with it over the Magni3.  It is a slightly warm amp to my friend and I (like the LC and HA-501) but nothing like a really warm tube amp and aside from the small sound stage issue quite good and better than the Magni and Magni2 that came before it based on our memory.  Music was mostly FLAC / WAV: classical, jazz, pop, Kpop, new age, alternative, rock, and R&B; listening level 65-75dB, volume matched at 1khz between headphones/amp pairings.
My friend and I were impressed with the Magni3 and he decided that he will keep the Magni3 until his CTH and LC-X arrive and then sell Magni3 since he wouldn't need it anymore, he decided to finally sell his O2 and will return the A30 to Amazon, I'll still keep my Asgard2 (I was thinking of replacing it with Magni3 but the Asgard2 is still a better amp IMO for my gear) and the Liquid Carbon will be returned to our other friend.


----------



## bboris77

I got my Magni 3 yesterday and here are my first impressions plus a question for other owners.

I also own a Valhalla 2 so I compared them head to head using HD600. Keep in mind that I do not have an A/B switch so I actually had to unplug/replug the headphones so it is not really a scientific comparison. 

The Magni 3 sounds spectacular for the price. It has a sound signature that, to my ears, is quite similar to that of the Valhalla 2 with some key differences which I will attempt to highlight below:

Bass and Slam - this one goes to the Magni 3. It sounds meatier and it hits harder.
Speed and control - Magni 3 wins this one, which is not a large surprise considering it's a solid-state amp.
Headstage - The Valhalla 2 wins this one as it has a slightly wider soundstage. The Magni 3 is a bit more center forward but not really by much.
Plankton - Valhalla 2 wins this one. It simply has that tube magic.
Mids/Natural sounding timbre - Valhalla 2 by a very small margin - voices and instruments sound amazingly natural and relaxed on it.
Treble - a tie - Magni's extends more and it is not harsh, but Valhalla's treble has that tube liquidity and magic.

Basically, I think that the Magni 3 perfectly complements the Valhalla 2 as it really excels in the areas that most OTL tube amps do not do well in - speed and slam. At the same time, it does a very respectable job when it comes to soundstage, natural sounding mids and pleasant treble.

I am definitely keeping this amp since I need something that will do a stellar job with lower impedance headphones and give me that solid state slam and precision.
Side note - the Magni 3 supplied more than enough power to HD600, DT150 and Q701 even in low gain mode. 

I do have a question for anyone that owns a Magni 3. Have you noticed any whooshing/scratchy sounds when turning the volume button in high gain mode, near the top of the volume range? I never use the amp at this volume level anyway, but I noticed that when I use more sensitive headphones there is a spot between 3 and 5 o'clock on the volume knob that makes this small "whooshing" sound when increasing or decreasing the volume in high gain mode. The noise is proportional to the volume level and it only happens when I have something plugged in the input jack. If there is nothing plugged in the back of the Magni 3, there is no noise. I suspect this is a quirk of the current feedback technology rather than a scratchy pot but would appreciate any insight. I emailed Schiit tech support as well and will report back when they get back to me.


----------



## bboris77

I have been able to reproduce the "whooshing" volume pot noise very easily by playing any single tone test track and trying to adjust the volume. It is very easily heard on low frequency tracks (10hz-60hz). For some reason, this makes it apparent, where it is almost not noticeable when adjusting volume on music tracks (but it is still there).

Once again, I would really appreciate it if anyone can test their Magni 3 with this track and see if there are any weird artifacts when adjusting the volume pot. I really don't want to return it if it is a quirk common to all the units.

http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencychecklow.php

Thank you.


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## -ImageX

Mine does the same thing. A little noise when adjusting but I’ve also only noticed during low frequencies of sine wave tracks.


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## RiflemanFirst

bboris77 said:


> I have been able to reproduce the "whooshing" volume pot noise very easily by playing any single tone test track and trying to adjust the volume. It is very easily heard on low frequency tracks (10hz-60hz). For some reason, this makes it apparent, where it is almost not noticeable when adjusting volume on music tracks (but it is still there).
> 
> Once again, I would really appreciate it if anyone can test their Magni 3 with this track and see if there are any weird artifacts when adjusting the volume pot. I really don't want to return it if it is a quirk common to all the units.
> 
> ...



Just tried it out. Seems like my Magni 3 has the same "whooshing" sound when adjusting volume quickly during that test track. If I recall correctly, this is the same pot noise that was present on the Fulla 2 I used to own and it is common with those too.


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## Tuneslover (Oct 18, 2017)

RiflemanFirst said:


> Just tried it out. Seems like my Magni 3 has the same "whooshing" sound when adjusting volume quickly during that test track. If I recall correctly, this is the same pot noise that was present on the Fulla 2 I used to own and it is common with those too.



Yeah the pot/volume control on all of the Magni iterations have been their weak point in my opinion.  I had static/scratching in both the original and 2U versions.  But for the price it's still a terrific little amp.


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## sennsay (Oct 17, 2017)

MementoMori99 said:


> It is my opinion that for relatively smooth treble, the Vali 2, Asgard 2 and Lyr 2 are the best options for Schiit amps.  I own the Vali 2 because it suits my needs(power and preference for smooth treble) and has a price point of under $200.  I am curious as to whether the Magni 3 has smooth treble.


Yes! Is the answer to that one  I also use a Valhalla 2 and the top end of the Magni 3 - even if it's only 20 hrs or so from new - is the most accurate I've come across in any amp I've owned in many years. Listening to it right now with HifiMAN HE-400s cans, via Kimber USB/AQ Jitterbug/MusicStreamer II+ and as crazy as it might seem  a 0.6M pair of pure silver Slinkylinks ICs. I've been astonished at how balanced the Magni 3 is, $209AUS, really? It even drives my 28 year old Senn HD540 Reference 600 ohm headphones! The Magni 3 has the HE-400s by the short n curlies, keeps the balance from low levels to outrageous and has THE most accurate cymbal and percussion detail I've heard from any amp I've owned in 40 years, gobsmacked. That might not be the same for all cans but with the HE-400s, wow. I'm simply hearing details in long time fave recordings that defies belief from this great little amp. I'm surprised at how smooth and even it is right up to as high as I can hear, even from first switch-on. It's just loosened up a fair bit and dynamically stretched itself as it's warmed up and running in. I don't like this amp with my Sony MD-R1s! It shows them up and not in a good way, they are far better suited to my old Corda 2Move and are rather good with them.
Guitar detail on the album by Terakaft- Aratan N Azawad, is just so natural, dynamic yet never exaggerated by leading edges with no body. Percussion and cymbal detail on WAR-Live is jaw-dropping. Ambient detail is thus quite brilliant as well, as there is no blurring and smearing of detail. The audience calls in The Who-Live In Leeds is absolutely pinpoint! I'm loving this great little amp and have passed this on to Tom at Schiit Audio, who also recommended the Amperex Orange Globe NOS 1968 tubes for the V2, which are shipping to me as I write, especially for use with the 600 ohm Senn 540s. Speaking of which, I STILL love these things since owning from new in late '89! Despite their somewhat exposed upper mids, they are so rhythmically adept that they leave the HE-400s seeming flat and a bit unexpressive. 
I've had no issues from any of my Schiit ... gear ... in fact I'm so engrossed in listening at the moment that to take the HE400s of my head just seems rude to the musicians, the performance is rhythmic and alive. I just need some better cables with the HE-400s to open up that slightly veiled lower mid/bottom end somewhat. Still, the Magni 3 gets the best out of the 400s bottom end yet, even if the ultimate purity from them is still directly from that brilliant Class A output of my Questyle QP1R DAP.
 Does this help?


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## sennsay

decodm said:


> Same here - not only the looks of the new volume knob, but the pot is supposed to have a better ramp up.


I'm REALLY enjoying my new Magni 3! No issues whatsoever, pot is great and has a nice ramp for sure. What I find so amazing is that unlike so much other gear I've owned, as I turn the volume up from quiet to ridiculous, the balance doesn't change ...  until the headphones can't take much more anyway, HifiMAN HE-400s ... not that I run them hard as such. The bass doesn't disappear at low levels, all that's happening is that the level is either lower or higher, how refreshing! 
 Outrageously great little amp! I can hardly believe the top end detail and naturalness coming from the Magni 3, I keep coming across track after track that amazes me and I've been listening to headphone amps for donkey's years


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## DavidA

@bboris77, are you still using the stock tubes in the Valhalla2 when you compared it to the Magni3?


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## sennsay (Oct 17, 2017)

bboris77 said:


> I got my Magni 3 yesterday and here are my first impressions plus a question for other owners.
> 
> I also own a Valhalla 2 so I compared them head to head using HD600. Keep in mind that I do not have an A/B switch so I actually had to unplug/replug the headphones so it is not really a scientific comparison.
> 
> ...


I too have both of these amps and using my HifiMAN HE-400s cans the Magni 3 has it nearly every time. I'm always just slightly disappointed when using the V2 (stock tubes until the new Amperex Orange Globes arrive) with the HE-400s, good but not great. The Magni 3 is really good with them! Top end detail eats the stock tubes in the V2 and as you say, bass weight and focus is much better - it's got 'em by the balls, as they say  The 400s needs that though! Only through my Questyle QP1R is the overall balance purer with them. No whooshing noise with my Magni's volume pot, can't fault anything with it at all. Love this amp!
 The V2 is almost exclusively for my 28 year old Senn HD540 Reference cans now - new Amperex tubes on the way.
 Heck, even my old Denon AH D1000 cans with damped capsules and Mogami cable sound so much fun with this amp, which can REALLY control the bass of the Denons, with their ability to soak up midrange energy meaning they stay listenable with over EQ'd tracks.


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## sennsay

hifihead said:


> Sound is neutral, not tube warm and definitely not bright. Grado SR325e are already bright enough and if it was a bright amp it would probably make the SR325e even brighter. Soundstage is average width. In my experience, soundstage is more affected by the headphone than the amp. It has good clarity. Instruments sound like they should and don't sound artificial.


Agreed. Very natural and balanced. Amazing value far beyond it's price.


----------



## DavidA

sennsay said:


> I too have both of these amps and using my HifiMAN HE-400s cans the Magni 3 has it nearly every time. I'm always just slightly disappointed when using the V2 with the HE-400s, good but not great. The Magni 3 is really good with them! Top end detail eats the stock tubes in the V2 and as you say, bass weight and focus is much better - it's got 'em by the balls, as they say  The 400s needs that though! Only through my Questyle QP1R is the overall balance purer with them. No whooshing noise with my Magni's volume pot, can't fault anything with it at all. Love this amp!
> The V2 is almost exclusively for my 28 year old Senn HD540 Reference cans now - new Amperex tubes on the way.


The Valhalla2 is a poor choice for the HE400S since its a high output impedance OTL amp designed for high impedance headphones like the HD600/HD650.  I would have been shocked if the Magni3 didn't out perform the Valhalla2 with the HE400S.


----------



## bboris77

DavidA said:


> @bboris77, are you still using the stock tubes in the Valhalla2 when you compared it to the Magni3?



Yes, I tried a couple of different preamp tubes and went back to the stock ones as they had a bit more treble. I find that the stock tubes are really a perfect match for the Valhalla 2.


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## DavidA

bboris77 said:


> Yes, I tried a couple of different preamp tubes and went back to the stock ones as they had a bit more treble. I find that the stock tubes are really a perfect match for the Valhalla 2.


Thanks for the reply, most that have/had the Valhalla2 noted that changing the driver tubes seems to have little to no effect on the sound unlike the Lyr2 and Mjolnir2 where rolling the driver tubes has a more noticeable effect on the sound.  Another trait was that the Valhalla2 was a bit on the dry side and this is where the Magni3 has it beat but it will also depend on the headphones used.


----------



## sennsay

DavidA said:


> The Valhalla2 is a poor choice for the HE400S since its a high output impedance OTL amp designed for high impedance headphones like the HD600/HD650.  I would have been shocked if the Magni3 didn't out perform the Valhalla2 with the HE400S.


Don't I know it! Driven ok, but the results are a bit bland and unexciting. I bought the V2 mainly for my Senn HD540 Reference cans I've had for so long and they really sing with V2. Mid forward, yes, but play something like Ricki Lee Jones' Naked Songs and the performance is absolutely riveting! Looking forward to the Amperex Orange Globes which may tame some of the mid forwardness and fill out the bottom end some more. The brighter Gold Lions will certainly not match.


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## bboris77

RiflemanFirst said:


> Just tried it out. Seems like my Magni 3 has the same "whooshing" sound when adjusting volume quickly during that test track. If I recall correctly, this is the same pot noise that was present on the Fulla 2 I used to own and it is common with those too.



What puzzles me is that I had the original Vali and the Vali 2 and had absolutely zero issues with the volume pot on these. I believe they use the same Alps RK09 pot as the Magni 3 and the Fulla 2. I contacted the Schiit tech support yesterday and they told me that they consider it a defect and that they would exchange it for a new Magni 3. 

I have a feeling that it is not as simple as a bunch of subpar quality Alps pots that Schiit decided to install in their product - I think that the technology that Schiit utilizes in the Magni 3 and the Fulla 2 simply exposes and magnifies any small imperfections in these pots that would be masked if they were used in the Vali 2 for example. I have never ever heard anyone ever complain about the Vali 2 volume pot.

Anyway, I will post when I get a replacement unit, but I do have a feeling that in time, the new unit may develop this whooshing sound. Unless they found the actual issue that is causing this and took care of it - the tech guy seemed very confident that this should not be happening even when I pointed out that there are a few people that have the same issue. It would be really nice if someone from Schiit could publicly explain the reason why there have been numerous complaints about whooshing/scratchy volume pots with the Fulla 2 and the Magni 3.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

bboris77 said:


> What puzzles me is that I had the original Vali and the Vali 2 and had absolutely zero issues with the volume pot on these.
> ...
> Anyway, I will post when I get a replacement unit, but I do have a feeling that in time, the new unit may develop this whooshing sound. Unless they found the actual issue that is causing this and took care of it - the tech guy seemed very confident that this should not be happening even when I pointed out that there are a few people that have the same issue. It would be really nice if someone from Schiit could publicly explain the reason why there have been numerous complaints about whooshing/scratchy volume pots with the Fulla 2 and the Magni 3.



Good luck with the return. I'm curious to see if the replacement unit doesn't have or develop a scratchy pot.


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## malteasers

Forgive me if this has been asked, but as I recently got in on the 6XX drop, I had a question for anyone who has used both the Magni 3 and the Magni 2 Uber. Is the 3 worth the 30 dollar price difference? The 2U is on amazon for $80 and while I'm not on a super strict budget, any cost saving would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## Jimster480

DavidA said:


> I was at a friends house today and got to listen with his Magni3 + MHDT Pagoda and Metrum Musette DACs (also O2, A30, Asgard2 and Liquid Carbon), for the price its a really good deal but it not something I would suggest for those with HD800, T1, HE560, HD700 or K812.  It seems to shrink or not present the wide sound stages of these headphones known for wide sound stages.  The Magni3 was a better than the O2 and A30 when used with the HD600, HE400i, DT-990, Ether, GS1000e and RS2e since it brought out a bit more bass/sub-bass along with slightly smoothing out the highs on these otherwise slightly bright headphones.  Compared to the Asgard2 its a touch warmer but the sound stage of the Asgard2 is better and the LC while 6 times the cost is a better amp for all the headphones we tried with it over the Magni3.  It is a slightly warm amp to my friend and I (like the LC and HA-501) but nothing like a really warm tube amp and aside from the small sound stage issue quite good and better than the Magni and Magni2 that came before it based on our memory.  Music was mostly FLAC / WAV: classical, jazz, pop, Kpop, new age, alternative, rock, and R&B; listening level 65-75dB, volume matched at 1khz between headphones/amp pairings.
> My friend and I were impressed with the Magni3 and he decided that he will keep the Magni3 until his CTH and LC-X arrive and then sell Magni3 since he wouldn't need it anymore, he decided to finally sell his O2 and will return the A30 to Amazon, I'll still keep my Asgard2 (I was thinking of replacing it with Magni3 but the Asgard2 is still a better amp IMO for my gear) and the Liquid Carbon will be returned to our other friend.


I'm not sure how you could have the exact opposite experience of what I had.  basically for me the magni 3 had less sub-bass and was definitely brighter with all my headphones even a 150ohm vintage planar magnetic. 
Its definitely brighter than the o2 which sounds identical to the A30. 
Its also so overpowered that there is no volume control at all with more sensitive headphones since it's already so loud at 9 o'clock. 
Only the YH-2 had volume control and it was still bright with a sharp frequency response in the top end. 
But since you were testing it with a NOS DAC those have basically no resolution up high and have a very warm sound so maybe the pairing was better for your tastes.


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## JP Lamachine

Hello guys. I recently ordered this AMP aswell as a massdrop k7xx. I cureently own a e10k. Is there a DAC (or even soundcard) that would be a better fit to get the best out if those cans? For around 100 $ id say. Thanks


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## Jimster480

JP Lamachine said:


> Hello guys. I recently ordered this AMP aswell as a massdrop k7xx. I cureently own a e10k. Is there a DAC (or even soundcard) that would be a better fit to get the best out if those cans? For around 100 $ id say. Thanks



Topping D30 is your best bet.


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## JP Lamachine

Jimster480 said:


> Topping D30 is your best bet.


What about the modi? People keep going on about the schiit stack. Also wondering about the dacs currently on massdrop. Any clue for what specs i should be looking for? Thanks


----------



## Jimster480

JP Lamachine said:


> What about the modi? People keep going on about the schiit stack. Also wondering about the dacs currently on massdrop. Any clue for what specs i should be looking for? Thanks


Pass on it.
The USB implementation really sucks, it pops all the time on quiet tracks and you have to spend $150 to get the version that has external power (non USB powered). 

The D30 with its XMOS implementation + CS4398 (Top chip from Crystal/Wolfson) just kills it while costing less.


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## JP Lamachine

Alright ! Any thought on the cayin c5?


----------



## Jimster480

JP Lamachine said:


> Alright ! Any thought on the cayin c5?


Haven't tested it personally so I cannot comment, but it is a portable. These often have some other issues compared to desktop units, usually due to power restrictions / interference.


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut

I don't know about the C5, but portables can be as good as desktop units. In fact, I sold my Magni 2U and Nuforce HA200 after I got and listened to the Tralucent T1. Moreover, I just but a Pocket Amp made by @xrk971, which can hold it's own against many high-end desktops.


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## DavidA

Jimster480 said:


> I'm not sure how you could have the exact opposite experience of what I had.  basically for me the magni 3 had less sub-bass and was definitely brighter with all my headphones even a 150ohm vintage planar magnetic.
> Its definitely brighter than the o2 which sounds identical to the A30.
> Its also so overpowered that there is no volume control at all with more sensitive headphones since it's already so loud at 9 o'clock.
> Only the YH-2 had volume control and it was still bright with a sharp frequency response in the top end.
> But since you were testing it with a NOS DAC those have basically no resolution up high and have a very warm sound so maybe the pairing was better for your tastes.



I'm not sure where you got your info on or have even heard the MHDT Pagoda and Metrun Musette but these are not "very warm" sounding and are quite extended in the highs with great resolution.  I didn't list it but we also used a Bimby and D30 (my friend got it with the A30) as well but the results were the same with the O2 and A30 being brighter and thinner sounding than the Magni3.  The most notable difference was with the HE560 where the Magni3 had similar sub-bass that was much like when its driven by the LC and Lyr2 but was lacking with the O2 and A30.  This makes me think that you might have a defective Magni3 or another issue somewhere in your audio chain to make the Magni3 seem brighter and have less sub-bass.


----------



## Tuneslover

Jimster480 said:


> Pass on it.
> The USB implementation really sucks, it pops all the time on quiet tracks and you have to spend $150 to get the version that has external power (non USB powered).
> 
> The D30 with its XMOS implementation + CS4398 (Top chip from Crystal/Wolfson) just kills it while costing less.



Or if possible use the Toslink or Coaxial Modi inputs.


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## JP Lamachine

Well thanks for you guys s feedback. Jimster sold me on the d30!


----------



## DavidA

JP Lamachine said:


> What about the modi? People keep going on about the schiit stack. Also wondering about the dacs currently on massdrop. Any clue for what specs i should be looking for? Thanks


DACs are a personal choice, and unless you are listening to them at the same time it might be hard or impossible to notice differences to most and many who say there's a "huge" difference between DACs are usually over stating.  To me a "Huge" difference would be noticeable by anyone one who still has some hearing ability.  The reason many mention the schiit stack is that its a good deal for what you get and has a pretty good company backing them up.  Will you be able to hear the difference between the Modi2uber or Modi MB?, it depends on your hearing and your gear.  And if you do hear a difference, you may like one over the other which is a personal preference.  The differences in DACs is less than the differences in amps to me while other will say its the other way around but its still much less on the influence of the sound than the headphone themselves.


----------



## JP Lamachine

DavidA said:


> DACs are a personal choice, and unless you are listening to them at the same time it might be hard or impossible to notice differences to most and many who say there's a "huge" difference between DACs are usually over stating.  To me a "Huge" difference would be noticeable by anyone one who still has some hearing ability.  The reason many mention the schiit stack is that its a good deal for what you get and has a pretty good company backing them up.  Will you be able to hear the difference between the Modi2uber or Modi MB?, it depends on your hearing and your gear.  And if you do hear a difference, you may like one over the other which is a personal preference.  The differences in DACs is less than the differences in amps to me while other will say its the other way around but its still much less on the influence of the sound than the headphone themselves.



Right. Does that mean replacing the e10k would only make for marginal difference then? Considering i noticed the change from my xonar dx to the fiio already. Also how does a double amping effect would work? Would there not be any conflict?


----------



## DavidA

JP Lamachine said:


> Right. Does that mean replacing the e10k would only make for marginal difference then? Considering i noticed the change from my xonar dx to the fiio already. Also how does a double amping effect would work? Would there not be any conflict?


I haven't use a e10k but there is a difference between my Fiio X3 and Xonar DG sound card but its quite subtle with some headphones and quite noticeable with others.  I'm not sure about double amping only that most recommend not doing it, maybe other with more knowledge of this topic will provide you with better info on this.

I think this is getting a little off topic from the Magni3 so if you might get better info in a thread dedicated to DACs if you would like to learn more about them and see if there are thread on the e10k or other Fiio amps which would be more helpful since I've never used a stand alone Fiio amp.


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## SomeTechNoob

Honestly though I think hooking up the E10K as a dac to the Magni 3 would serve you well enough.


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## Jimster480

Tuneslover said:


> Or if possible use the Toslink or Coaxial Modi inputs.


Toslink has the most jitter and you have to have a device which outputs Toslink Optical.

Coaxial output is impossible to come by unless you have a $200 sound card in most cases.
There is only one $70 sound card which has Coax output if you install dual PCI-E plates in the back of your desktop (requiring you to have a desktop that has extra slots).

Or you could spend $60 on a SMSL xUSB and then output to Coax but.... all of that adds considerably to the cost when you could just buy a D30 that is done right and forget about it. 


xrk971 said:


> Here's a tip on a nice DAC that people don't often consider.  I was at the Schiitstorm HeadFi meet in Gaithersburg MD a few months ago. I brought my Focusrite 2i4 2nd gen USB audio interface.  Most people there had not thought about using one as a "DAC" as it is normally a pro-sumer audio input interface for recording music.  Turns out it has a DAC that can go high speed (192k) and sounds great.  It even has single ended and balanced outputs. Never pops.  A real volume knob, and a basic headphone out (small amp) with separate volume knob.  Plus, it can record as well.  Anyhow, many HeadFiers there listened to my amps on it and said it sounds really good. Up there with some of the best. Since it has inputs - I could measure its performance in loopback. Noise floor is -130dB, -85dB stereo separation, THD is -110dB second order dominant with a bit of third, fourth and fifth at much lower levels (-120dB). I use the balanced outputs to drive two of my XRK Audio Pocket Class A amps (standard single ended amps), to power a balanced headphone. Works great!
> 
> Doesn't cost much either.  Nice footprint and built like a tank.  Cool red anodized aluminum box too.



Those cost around $150 and it does have quite a low end Dac Chip. I do have a friend who has one and he likes it though. 


DavidA said:


> I'm not sure where you got your info on or have even heard the MHDT Pagoda and Metrun Musette but these are not "very warm" sounding and are quite extended in the highs with great resolution.  I didn't list it but we also used a Bimby and D30 (my friend got it with the A30) as well but the results were the same with the O2 and A30 being brighter and thinner sounding than the Magni3.  The most notable difference was with the HE560 where the Magni3 had similar sub-bass that was much like when its driven by the LC and Lyr2 but was lacking with the O2 and A30.  This makes me think that you might have a defective Magni3 or another issue somewhere in your audio chain to make the Magni3 seem brighter and have less sub-bass.



I read on another forum about the Pagoda and Musette. Its quite well known that NOS DAC's have a warmer sound.
Lyr2 is a tube amp, also something known for being warm and modifying the sound (like any tube amp).
The Magni 3 is definitely brighter than these other 2 Amps and it has a sharp response in the high end. 
I tried it with 2 DAC's and 5 pairs of headphones, I'm not sure how you would have literally the opposite experience from me. Unless you are so used to warm sounds that you don't know what neutral sounds like, and even in that case you would still notice the Magni having sharper highs vs the other 2 Amps. 
It also depends on how you have the Amps wired, because if you are using anything via the Magni's Pre-Amp outputs then the volume will be attenuated basically always to whatever is next in the chain unless Magni 3 Volume is at 100%. 

I went from the DX7 -> A30 -> Magni 3 -> JDS o2
I did D30 -> Magni 3
D30 -> A30 -> Magni 3
DX7 -> Magni 3
and DX7 -> A30 -> JDS o2

They all came back with the same results. But it is worth noting that the A30 especially has a higher output impedance which could definitely affect frequency response depending on which headphones you are using.
When I use my A30 with my Denon D7200's it definitely changes the sound a bit, but this doesn't happen on any of my other headphones (Denon AH-MM400, Panasonic RP-HD10, 1More Quad, 1More Triple, Yamaha YH-2).
But then when I use the JDS o2 it sounds fine as it has a very low output impedance.
The D7200 has alot of sub-bass and it was noticeably reduced immediately with the Magni 3.

Its also worth noting that my A30 is Rolled with a LM4562 vs the stock OPA2134.

So its possible it has to do with headphone pairing specifically, or the Magni 3 tolerance per unit could be semi-high where they have different frequency responses.
Or it could be the output impedance of the DAC's you used, although the D30 has a higher impedance also so the result would be similar to my result if not exactly the same...


----------



## RickB

The Magni 3 is not a bright amp. I agree with DavidA that you might have a defective unit.


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## Jimster480

RickB said:


> The Magni 3 is not a bright amp. I agree with DavidA that you might have a defective unit.


You have a Modi Multibit though, that is a dark sounding DAC.


----------



## RickB

Jimster480 said:


> You have a Modi Multibit though, that is a dark sounding DAC.



Well, everything does effect everything else.

I see the Magni 3 as warm with smooth treble on top, however.


----------



## Jimster480

RickB said:


> Well, everything does effect everything else.
> 
> I see the Magni 3 as warm with smooth treble on top, however.


It definitely does have smooth treble, but it has a few sharp peaks which my DX7 brought out easily.
The D30 doesn't have the same detail resolution and it was harder to hear.


----------



## sennsay

malteasers said:


> Forgive me if this has been asked, but as I recently got in on the 6XX drop, I had a question for anyone who has used both the Magni 3 and the Magni 2 Uber. Is the 3 worth the 30 dollar price difference? The 2U is on amazon for $80 and while I'm not on a super strict budget, any cost saving would be appreciated. Thanks


For what it's worth, malteaser's, from much of what I have heard about the M2U - and I haven't heard it myself - the $30 price difference is well worth it. The circuit of the M3 is basically exactly the same is in the new 100W Vidar amp, just scaled down to M3 size and after 20-25 hours or so on my new M3, I'm absolutely loving it! The HifiMAN HE400S cans are so smooth from top to bottom, not bright, not dull, the top end is the finest I've heard from any headphone amp in the last 26 years or so - and I've not heard all of them, just had a lot of experience, including building several of my own - midrange is even and is not disjointed at all moving through into the highs, which are extended and very detailed with superb focus. Frankly, I'm stunned with this amp! The only cans I don't like with it are my Sony MD-R1s, their frequency imbalances are shown up immediately, being far too bright and forward. Heck, this amp even drives my 600ohm Senn HD540 Reference cans which are 28 years old! Not perfectly but amazingly well, while not altering their own frequency quirks that I know so well. That's a great amp in my book. In saying that, I totally get "each to their own"


----------



## Jimster480

sennsay said:


> For what it's worth, malteaser's, from much of what I have heard about the M2U - and I haven't heard it myself - the $30 price difference is well worth it. The circuit of the M3 is basically exactly the same is in the new 100W Vidar amp, just scaled down to M3 size and after 20-25 hours or so on my new M3, I'm absolutely loving it! The HifiMAN HE400S cans are so smooth from top to bottom, not bright, not dull, the top end is the finest I've heard from any headphone amp in the last 26 years or so - and I've not heard all of them, just had a lot of experience, including building several of my own - midrange is even and is not disjointed at all moving through into the highs, which are extended and very detailed with superb focus. Frankly, I'm stunned with this amp! The only cans I don't like with it are my Sony MD-R1s, their frequency imbalances are shown up immediately, being far too bright and forward. Heck, this amp even drives my 600ohm Senn HD540 Reference cans which are 28 years old! Not perfectly but amazingly well, while not altering their own frequency quirks that I know so well. That's a great amp in my book. In saying that, I totally get "each to their own"


I agree that the Magni3 should be an upgrade to the Magni2/2U in every way.
Many people said the Magni 2 sounded similar to the Fulla 2 which is definitely bright. 
The Magni 3 sounds more balanced vs the Fulla 2 Amp.


----------



## DavidA

[QUOTE="Jimster480, post: 13792521, member: 468704
I read on another forum about the Pagoda and Musette. Its quite well known that NOS DAC's have a warmer sound.
Lyr2 is a tube amp, also something known for being warm and modifying the sound (like any tube amp).
The Magni 3 is definitely brighter than these other 2 Amps and it has a sharp response in the high end.
I tried it with 2 DAC's and 5 pairs of headphones, I'm not sure how you would have literally the opposite experience from me. Unless you are so used to warm sounds that you don't know what neutral sounds like, and even in that case you would still notice the Magni having sharper highs vs the other 2 Amps.
It also depends on how you have the Amps wired, because if you are using anything via the Magni's Pre-Amp outputs then the volume will be attenuated basically always to whatever is next in the chain unless Magni 3 Volume is at 100%.

I went from the DX7 -> A30 -> Magni 3 -> JDS o2
I did D30 -> Magni 3
D30 -> A30 -> Magni 3
DX7 -> Magni 3
and DX7 -> A30 -> JDS o2

They all came back with the same results. But it is worth noting that the A30 especially has a higher output impedance which could definitely affect frequency response depending on which headphones you are using.
When I use my A30 with my Denon D7200's it definitely changes the sound a bit, but this doesn't happen on any of my other headphones (Denon AH-MM400, Panasonic RP-HD10, 1More Quad, 1More Triple, Yamaha YH-2).
But then when I use the JDS o2 it sounds fine as it has a very low output impedance.
The D7200 has alot of sub-bass and it was noticeably reduced immediately with the Magni 3.

Its also worth noting that my A30 is Rolled with a LM4562 vs the stock OPA2134.

So its possible it has to do with headphone pairing specifically, or the Magni 3 tolerance per unit could be semi-high where they have different frequency responses.
Or it could be the output impedance of the DAC's you used, although the D30 has a higher impedance also so the result would be similar to my result if not exactly the same...[/QUOTE]

Since you've never heard either the Pagoda or Musette and are just parroting what others have said its sounds like you are only defending your purchase of the D30/A30.  The Pagoda and Musette are not warm DACs, if anything they are neutral, very well extended and a touch bright compared to the Bimby.  They may seem warm when compared to many D-S chips but I think its probably due to being so smooth and detailed.  You can't just assume all R2R/NOS DACs are warm, its like saying all D-S DACs are bright, it comes down to the implementation of the chip by the manufacturer.

All amps wired to DAC with RCA cables (balanced cables for Pagoda to LC): source (PC) > optical splitter > Pagoda/Musette/Bimby/D30 (DACs) > Magni3/Asgard2/Lyr2/LC/A30 (amps) > headphones (no pre-outs of amps used)

The underlined is where I think there is a issue somewhere in your system or Magni3 because you seem to be the only one to say the Magni3 reduces bass.  If there was any amp that might have seemed to reduce bass it was the Magni1/2 and O2.


----------



## Jimster480 (Oct 18, 2017)

DavidA said:


> Since you've never heard either the Pagoda or Musette and are just parroting what others have said its sounds like you are only defending your purchase of the D30/A30.  The Pagoda and Musette are not warm DACs, if anything they are neutral, very well extended and a touch bright compared to the Bimby.  They may seem warm when compared to many D-S chips but I think its probably due to being so smooth and detailed.  You can't just assume all R2R/NOS DACs are warm, its like saying all D-S DACs are bright, it comes down to the implementation of the chip by the manufacturer.
> 
> All amps wired to DAC with RCA cables (balanced cables for Pagoda to LC): source (PC) > optical splitter > Pagoda/Musette/Bimby/D30 (DACs) > Magni3/Asgard2/Lyr2/LC/A30 (amps) > headphones (no pre-outs of amps used)
> 
> The underlined is where I think there is a issue somewhere in your system or Magni3 because you seem to be the only one to say the Magni3 reduces bass.  If there was any amp that might have seemed to reduce bass it was the Magni1/2 and O2.



I'm not trying to defend any D30 purchase or A30 purchase lmao.
i have literally bought basically everything available on the mid-range market just to test it out.
As I did read on another forum from a number of people they noted that those specific DAC's were a bit warmer than others. I just read about them yesterday actually as I was looking into some R2R / NOS DAC's.
Its not a huge reduction in sub bass, but its surely there.


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## Tuneslover (Oct 19, 2017)

DavidA said:


> [QUOTE="Jimster480, post: 13792521, member: 468704
> I read on another forum about the Pagoda and Musette. Its quite well known that NOS DAC's have a warmer sound.
> Lyr2 is a tube amp, also something known for being warm and modifying the sound (like any tube amp).
> The Magni 3 is definitely brighter than these other 2 Amps and it has a sharp response in the high end.
> ...



Since you've never heard either the Pagoda or Musette and are just parroting what others have said its sounds like you are only defending your purchase of the D30/A30.  The Pagoda and Musette are not warm DACs, if anything they are neutral, very well extended and a touch bright compared to the Bimby.  They may seem warm when compared to many D-S chips but I think its probably due to being so smooth and detailed.  You can't just assume all R2R/NOS DACs are warm, its like saying all D-S DACs are bright, it comes down to the implementation of the chip by the manufacturer.

All amps wired to DAC with RCA cables (balanced cables for Pagoda to LC): source (PC) > optical splitter > Pagoda/Musette/Bimby/D30 (DACs) > Magni3/Asgard2/Lyr2/LC/A30 (amps) > headphones (no pre-outs of amps used)

The underlined is where I think there is a issue somewhere in your system or Magni3 because you seem to be the only one to say the Magni3 reduces bass.  If there was any amp that might have seemed to reduce bass it was the Magni1/2 and O2.[/QUOTE]

*As usual a very informative and sound response.*


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## -ImageX (Oct 19, 2017)

For anyone who was wondering about the issues I was having. I received the amp back today from Schiit with a note stating that it was 100% functional. I’m very unhappy with the service I received because I found the problem myself today. The gain switch is bad/loose. The amp plays louder with a little downward pressure put on the switch(from high gain). Things happen and defective products get shipped sometimes.... but they clearly didn’t check it out fully when it was sent in for service... and that cost me almost $8.


----------



## Jerda

curious about the magni3+mimby stack VS the iDSD black


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## nicoch46

ImageX just tell to shiit it will service better ....no problem


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## gr8soundz

Has anyone heard both the Magni 3 and the Gilmore Lite mk2?

Both are similar in size, spec but I'm wondering if the Gilmore is really worth 5x the price?


----------



## DavidA

-ImageX said:


> For anyone who was wondering about the issues I was having. I received the amp back today from Schiit with a note stating that it was 100% functional. I’m very unhappy with the service I received because I found the problem myself today. The gain switch is bad/loose. The amp plays louder with a little downward pressure put on the switch(from high gain). Things happen and defective products get shipped sometimes.... but they clearly didn’t check it out fully when it was sent in for service... and that cost me almost $8.


That's the S______ , so you have to send it back to have the gain switch replaced?


----------



## -ImageX

DavidA said:


> That's the S______ , so you have to send it back to have the gain switch replaced?



They wanted me to send it back in so they could look at it again. Instead, I requested a replacement amp be sent out right away...while my return is in transit.


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## sennsay

Sorry to hear about some concerns with the Magni 3, thankfully mine is perfect and not just in functionality, it's currently sounding like the best thing I've ever heard from my MacBook Pro. I figure it's really settling in now, a week old and already had 25-30+ hours on it, some of that just sitting warmed up. 
 Right at this moment, a couple of mid-term Genesis albums are playing through the M3, MacBook set to 24/96kHz in the settings (sounds better that way), Kimber USB via AQ Jitterbug into a MusicStreamer II+, through some very fine NZ Slinkylinks pure silver ICs (0.6M) and into the Magni 3, stock and well run in HiFiMan HE-400S cans punching out the best I've ever heard from the MS II+ DAC. Sure, it's not as pure as my Questyle QP1R running directly into the M3 via an Audioquest Evergreen 3.5mm to RCA cable, but damn is it rocking out! Dynamics, bass slam (looking forward to the new Focus pads for the HE-400S which are on their way), top end showing up easily the different recording qualities of the Abacab and We Can't Dance albums (via iTunes), the latter album simply the best controlled and cleanest sound I've heard from this album, Fading Lights bringing undistorted vocals and clarity from this slightly less compressed album than Abacab. 
 True, there is $1000 ($NZ when I bought it) worth of gear BEFORE the Magni 3, but man does it perform! Drum kit is tight, weighty and clearly recorded in it's own space, with Phil's vocals clearly separated and forward of the drum kit. The slight grain in the top end of the MSII+ is clearly obvious with most music (more during the more compressed sections) though still very enjoyable. The purest signal come via the QP1R straight in via coax out. Optical is actually even better into another good DAC, but that has since been sold in preparation for a Mimby. 
 With Joss Stone's Soul Sessions Vol 2, the kick drum has superb weight, easy to see a striker hitting the drum skin and feel the weight and air. Her voice is delightful, warm, yet with her characteristic edge when she belts it out. Strings smooth and detailed, natural. totally different recording than the previous ones and sounds like it, you'd think it was a completely different set-up, which is as it should be - if everything sounds similar then your electronics are colouring the music big time. Nothing is blended and lost as the music builds. Some instruments, such as cymbals and tambourines (always hard to get totally natural sounding) are just so alive and detailed and un-smeared that I'm looking for albums with extra high frequency detail to to hear more of what I've been missing. Jack White's Acoustic Recordings sound utterly natural, from hi-hat to tambourine, guitar sounds - knocking on the body - piano (maybe pianola), great vocals. 
 I sincerely hope you guys who have found issues with your new kit get them resolved soon and are able to get into enjoying your Magni 3. It's an outrageous buy and capable of showing wonderful results with really good gear behind it as well. I must try my M3 with the Marantz SACD player!


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## bboris77 (Oct 20, 2017)

Ok, a quick update - I received a replacement Magni 3 to address the volume pot whooshing issue and...it also exhibits the same phenomenon, and at the exact same spot where the original Magni 3 did when it was brand new. I am now 100% sure that this is a common quirk of this model and is not something that people should replace their units for. My bet would be that it is caused by some kind of static electricity buildup within the volume pot that gets worse with time or with dry climatic conditions.

The amp sounds absolutely amazing though.


----------



## RickB

bboris77 said:


> Ok, a quick update - I received a replacement Magni 3 to address the volume pot whooshing issue and...it also exhibits the same phenomenon, and at the exact same spot where the original Magni 3 did when it was brand new. I am now 100% sure that this is a common quirk of this model and is not something that people should replace their units for. My bet would be that it is caused by some kind of static electricity buildup within the volume pot that gets worse with time or with dry climatic conditions.
> 
> The amp sounds absolutely amazing though.



I checked mine and it has the same issue. TBH, I don't consider it much of one, because 1) I use only low gain and 2) I'm a low volume listener who never goes beyond 11 o'clock on the dial and I'm usually around 9 o'clock.


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## MatthijsD

I’m not sure If my question fits in this thread. If not, please say so. Do you think this amp would make a good combination with the AKG K-712 pro?


----------



## xrk971

AKG 712 pro. Specs show 62 ohms and 105dB. Should be a beeeze to drive with just about any amp. Even low powered SE Class a deals.


----------



## sennsay

MatthijsD said:


> I’m not sure If my question fits in this thread. If not, please say so. Do you think this amp would make a good combination with the AKG K-712 pro?


Not sure if I can help as much as you need, I haven't heard the AKGs, but in my experience with the four headphones I have here, the Magni 3 is so neutral that it expresses the exact frequency balance of each of the headphones, from 22 ohms to 600 ohms, yes, it actually drives my 600 ohm Senn HD540Rs! Each headphone balance being totally different and being familiar with all of them over some years, I can say quite definitively they all sound like themselves. Bright and lacking in bass fullness will sound exactly like that ... and so on, right down to the modified Denon AH-D1000s, thicker in the bass, warm, lacking in really fine detail yet all of them are great fun. 
 Maybe Jason Stoddard is on the money, for many folks this amplifier really could be all you need. I still love my Valhalla 2 though  ...... and my Sony MDR-1Rs are still better balanced with the Corda 2Move.


----------



## bboris77

MatthijsD said:


> I’m not sure If my question fits in this thread. If not, please say so. Do you think this amp would make a good combination with the AKG K-712 pro?



It sounds amazing with my AKG Q701 which has the same impedance and sensitivity specs. It drives it easily on the low gain setting. I really think Schiit has a huge winner on their hand with the Magni 3. They really did not make a big deal about it when it launched but I honestly don't think there has ever been any amp that sounds this good at $99. It holds its own against all the amps I have ever tried, including the original Vali, the Vali 2 ($149), the Valhalla 2 ($349), and Bottlehead Crack with Speedball ($414+labor). The reason why I got the Magni 3 is because I needed a solid state amp that could drive planars and that would give me a low noise floor with maximum RFI protection. I live very close to an airport and have often been able to pick up all kinds of radar pings and clicks especially with the Crack in combination with certain tubes. What I did not expect is to get an amp that is so addictive sounding that I have not even turned on my Valhalla 2 in a week. Like I said before, the Magni 3 really capitalizes on everything that solid state amps are good at - speed, slam and a very low noise floor. It manages to avoid the traditional pitfalls of entry-level solid state amps - it is not too bright, it does not sound compressed, and does not have a narrow soundstage. Honestly, the fact that a headphone enthusiast can now get the Magni 3, the Vali 2, and Modi Multibit for under $500 is kind of incredible. I paid more than that for only my Bifrost Multibit less than 2 years ago!


----------



## sennsay

bboris77 said:


> It sounds amazing with my AKG Q701 which has the same impedance and sensitivity specs. It drives it easily on the low gain setting. I really think Schiit has a huge winner on their hand with the Magni 3. They really did not make a big deal about it when it launched but I honestly don't think there has ever been any amp that sounds this good at $99. It holds its own against all the amps I have ever tried, including the original Vali, the Vali 2 ($149), the Valhalla 2 ($349), and Bottlehead Crack with Speedball ($414+labor). The reason why I got the Magni 3 is because I needed a solid state amp that could drive planars and that would give me a low noise floor with maximum RFI protection. I live very close to an airport and have often been able to pick up all kinds of radar pings and clicks especially with the Crack in combination with certain tubes. What I did not expect is to get an amp that is so addictive sounding that I have not even turned on my Valhalla 2 in a week. Like I said before, the Magni 3 really capitalizes on everything that solid state amps are good at - speed, slam and a very low noise floor. It manages to avoid the traditional pitfalls of entry-level solid state amps - it is not too bright, it does not sound compressed, and does not have a narrow soundstage. Honestly, the fact that a headphone enthusiast can now get the Magni 3, the Vali 2, and Modi Multibit for under $500 is kind of incredible. I paid more than that for only my Bifrost Multibit less than 2 years ago!


Addictive is a good word! Sounds great even directly out from my Marantz DV6600 SACD/CD/DVD player and even with just Redbook CD. TajMo's new album sounds full of life and accurate enough to almost be a clone of the balance from the QP1R DAP, just a bigger sound, which is good news for me and shows the accuracy of the Magni 3. Loving it more each day.


----------



## MatthijsD

Thank you for your input in helping me in answering my question: 
_Do you think this amp would make a good combination with the AKG K-712 pro?
_
May I ask you an additional question. At the moment the AKG is connected to an Onkyo TX-8150 ( Headphone Output Impedance   390. Ω Headphone Rated Output 200 mW (32 Ω, 1 kHz, 10%))

Do you think the Magni 3 will be an improvement compared to the Onkyo? People say the AKG like a lot of current.

Sorry if this question is too simple but I have just discovered the world of headphones and am not technical at all.


----------



## sennsay

MatthijsD said:


> Thank you for your input in helping me in answering my question:
> _Do you think this amp would make a good combination with the AKG K-712 pro?
> _
> May I ask you an additional question. At the moment the AKG is connected to an Onkyo TX-8150 ( Headphone Output Impedance   390. Ω Headphone Rated Output 200 mW (32 Ω, 1 kHz, 10%))
> ...


Possibly quite an improvement! Such a high output impedance with the Onkyo comes via two resistors tapped off the output stages of the power amp and this will alter the frequency balance of some headphones, some significantly and others only a little. 
The Magni 3 has less than 0.3 ohm output impedance at either level of gain, therefore generally will be pretty much impervious to the varying impedances of any headphones as the impedance of them rises and falls with frequency. 
 The Magni 3 puts out nearly six times the power output of the Onkyo at 50 ohms and 2 watts into 32 ohms with vastly less distortion. 
This doesn't always mean you can't have a jolly old time listening to the Onkyo though  My old Senn HD650s loved being driven by the headphone amp from a Yamaha A900 integrated!


----------



## BVTK

I am so excited to consult you guys,that is it worth paying $150 extra for Asgard 2,given that Magni 3 is great at price $99?


----------



## sennsay

BVTK said:


> I am so excited to consult you guys,that is it worth paying $150 extra for Asgard 2,given that Magni 3 is great at price $99?


Now that IS something I can't tell you  It does give you a chance to play around with valves/tubes though. I almost bought the Vali 2, then decided on the Magni 3 instead - I can use the Valhalla 2 for playing with tubes. Still, in this world that has an excess of really expensive gear that isn't always as good as the price might suggest, $150 is a bargain ... unless you're a poor student   - to upgrade to yet another great amp from Schiit Audio!


----------



## tafens

Hi, I currently have the Modi2U+Magni2U with HD600 headphone and loving it 

I’ve been thinking of getting the Modi Multibit for a while now and with the Magni3 coming it’s even more interesting!

What would be the sonic difference of the MM+M3 over the uber stack?


----------



## sennsay

tafens said:


> Hi, I currently have the Modi2U+Magni2U with HD600 headphone and loving it
> 
> I’ve been thinking of getting the Modi Multibit for a while now and with the Magni3 coming it’s even more interesting!
> 
> What would be the sonic difference of the MM+M3 over the uber stack?


I don't have my own Mimby yet (next on my list), but from all the other stories I've heard here and from Schiit themselves, the M3 will bring smoother and more balanced sound and I CAN tell you that the M3 is very clean and detailed in the top end while being very even.


----------



## GearMe

bboris77 said:


> ...Honestly, the fact that a headphone enthusiast can now get the Magni 3, the Vali 2, and Modi Multibit for under $500 is kind of incredible. I paid more than that for only my Bifrost Multibit less than 2 years ago!



Have thought the same thing...these products have great price-performance and have definitely impacted the value proposition of the next 'step up' in Schiit's product line.


----------



## erics75

tafens said:


> Hi, I currently have the Modi2U+Magni2U with HD600 headphone and loving it
> 
> I’ve been thinking of getting the Modi Multibit for a while now and with the Magni3 coming it’s even more interesting!
> 
> What would be the sonic difference of the MM+M3 over the uber stack?


I have the mmm3 stack currently and had the mu2 stack for ages so I know it quite well. Will use hd650 as reference as I don't have the 600. 

The mmm3 stack is slightly darker and noticeably more refined sounding. It has more heft in the low frequencies,a smoother midrange, and a much better treble section. Its also more detailed and dynamic sounding.

The m2u stack has a brittle treble section with more glare. Its a brighter presentation, but harsher sounding to me. I do love my old m2u stack, it served me well for years. But the mmm3 stack is superior. 

Specifically to the hd650, I noticed more midbass Jr, but not in a bloated way. Just a slightly harder hitting bass section, with increased quality. Control seemed better. Hard to explain but easy to hear. Treble, though not as bright, has better definition and separation. Though the m2u stack sounds brighter, which should synergize better with the dark 650, it just doesn't sound as good. The treble was brittle sounding, and grainy. The mmm3 stack just sounds better.

Hope that helps


----------



## Jerda

Magni 3 its Hack-ready for bigger transformers


----------



## Jimster480

MatthijsD said:


> Thank you for your input in helping me in answering my question:
> _Do you think this amp would make a good combination with the AKG K-712 pro?
> _
> May I ask you an additional question. At the moment the AKG is connected to an Onkyo TX-8150 ( Headphone Output Impedance   390. Ω Headphone Rated Output 200 mW (32 Ω, 1 kHz, 10%))
> ...



That looks like a horrible headphone output. So yes it definitely would.


----------



## Jimster480 (Oct 24, 2017)

xrk971 said:


> I know what VA stands for - volt x amps = watts. But the label says 14VAC which is the RMS voltage rating of the wall wart. This is the voltage spec of the transformer, separate from the wattage rating of the transformer.
> 
> The 24VA rating of transformer says it can driver 24watts.
> 
> ...


Many have found inconsistencies before.
Schiit won't come out to talk about them.
Only make random comments about things which don't make sense and refer to other threads where they will not answer the same questions.


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## JoeKickass (Oct 22, 2017)

xrk971 said:


> ...If the amp internally has +/-17v dual rail supply, I find it interesting how that can be achieved with a single output 14VAC transformer? Unless a voltage doubler is used...Just curious how one gets 34v swing from nominal 19v swing transformer. Not impossible just requires either a DC step up or a doubler...



Oh that is a good question, Schiit says they always use low-noise linear voltage regulators, which need a higher input voltage than they output.

So you're probably right, they increase the AC voltage inside the Magni 3 before it goes to the regulators.

That actually makes sense and is certainly a better solution than using a hazardous and probably impossible to find 40V wall transformer...


----------



## Jimster480

JoeKickass said:


> Oh that is a good question, Schiit says they always use low-noise linear voltage regulators, which need a higher input voltage than they output.
> 
> So you're probably right, they increase the AC voltage inside the Magni 3 before it goes to the regulators.
> 
> That actually makes sense and is certainly a better solution than using a hazardous and probably impossible to find 40V wall transformer...



That is certainly plausible.
Considering how hot the Magni3 gets, it could be partially from voltage stepping/doubling.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Three words: half-wave rectification. No conspiracies, sorry.


----------



## RickB

Jimster480 said:


> That is certainly plausible.
> Considering how hot the Magni3 gets, it could be partially from voltage stepping/doubling.



I am now convinced that you got a defective Magni 3 and that is the basis for all your pronouncements.

My Magni 3 barely gets warm.


----------



## sainteb

How does the Magni 3 pair with HD650?


----------



## Jimster480

RickB said:


> I am now convinced that you got a defective Magni 3 and that is the basis for all your pronouncements.
> 
> My Magni 3 barely gets warm.


Great, well I sold it to another HF member. 
So far he hasn't had an issue with it but idk I'll reach out to him. But yes mine got quite warm.


----------



## RickB

sainteb said:


> How does the Magni 3 pair with HD650?



It's great. I like it better than the Vali 2, though that is just a personal preference (it goes well with the Vali 2, too.). 

The Magni 3 seems more relaxed in the mids, which is well suited in combination with the HD650, which is forward in that area.


----------



## sainteb

RickB said:


> It's great. I like it better than the Vali 2, though that is just a personal preference (it goes well with the Vali 2, too.).
> 
> The Magni 3 seems more relaxed in the mids, which is well suited in combination with the HD650, which is forward in that area.


Awesome, thanks a lot!

Also, I just ordered my Magni 3 and it's the first time I'm ever using an amp in my life (besides quickly trying the Fulla). I'm planning to connect it to a laptop, I've read that I need a Mini 3.5mm Jack to 2-male RCA adapter cable. Is that all I need, besides the adaptor they include in the package?


----------



## RickB

sainteb said:


> Awesome, thanks a lot!
> 
> Also, I just ordered my Magni 3 and it's the first time I'm ever using an amp in my life (besides quickly trying the Fulla). I'm planning to connect it to a laptop, I've read that I need a Mini 3.5mm Jack to 2-male RCA adapter cable. Is that all I need, besides the adaptor they include in the package?



Yes, that will work. If you're happy with the sound, that's all you need.


----------



## sainteb (Oct 24, 2017)

RickB said:


> Yes, that will work. If you're happy with the sound, that's all you need.


Cool, I just added a Modi 2 to my order.

So I guess I need RCA Cables and a USB A to B cable. Is it worth spending more on cables or should I go with whatever?


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## RickB (Oct 24, 2017)

sainteb said:


> Cool, I just added a Modi 2 to my order.
> 
> So I guess I need RCA Cables and a USB A to B cable. Is it worth spending more on cables or should I go with whatever?



I would go with a little bit better quality than that. If you're in the UK, I'm not sure where else you would buy cables. If you were in the US, I would recommend Monoprice.

But yes, you need a USB 2.0 rated cable. Something like a Belkin would work.


----------



## BVTK (Oct 24, 2017)

sainteb said:


> Cool, I just added a Modi 2 to my order.
> 
> So I guess I need RCA Cables and a USB A to B cable. Is it worth spending more on cables or should I go with whatever?



You can try these relatively quality cables in a same place at Schiit.com

http://www.schiit.com/products/pyst-cables


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## JoeKickass (Oct 24, 2017)

*sticks fingers in ears* _la la la Magni 3 la la la_


----------



## kman1211 (Oct 24, 2017)

JoeKickass said:


> *sticks fingers in ears* _la la la Magni 3 la la la_



Lol. I have the Magni 3 coming in tomorrow. Going to hook it up to my Sony UDA-1(which I use as a DAC, speaker amp, and headphone amp for 250-300 ohm headphones as it’s underpowered for any other headphones) which I have connected via optical.


----------



## GearMe

sennsay said:


> Discussion closed as far as I'm concerned!



Good luck with that!


----------



## kman1211

Got the Magni 3 in today. Initial impressions is that it sounds good but a little flat(not as 3-dimensional) and lacking macrodynamics/slam compared to the UDA-1 with the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home. Will spend more time and finish the initial break-in on the Magni. Treble texture seems similar between the two amps so far.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Oct 24, 2017)

I didn't even know the 3 existed until I stumbled across it on the Schiit website last week. I ordered one immediately, and I can't believe I was even considering the o2 anymore! Why would anybody buy anything else, except for variety/meeting different specific needs?

I'll start combing through the thread looking for Magni 3 comparisons with Project Polaris and Liquid Carbon. Now I don't NEED to "upgrade," if those two even qualify, but I'm still curious about what all is out there.


----------



## SomeTechNoob (Oct 24, 2017)

I'm still curious if anyone has compared low-level listening comparisons between the M3 and M2/M2U.  Is channel imbalance lower on the M3 or does the M3's overall higher power output offset that?


----------



## kman1211 (Oct 24, 2017)

In regards to my Magni 3, I haven't noticed any heat issues, the original Magni 1 runs much hotter or it having the whooshing when the volume knob being turned some people have been mentioning.


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## TLDMan (Oct 24, 2017)

Getting my M3/Mimby in tomorrow to replace my M2/M2 stack, ready to experience the magic of marginal upgrades! (Possibly notable upgrades, given the hype in this thread.)


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## sennsay (Oct 24, 2017)

Meantime, since replacing the stock pads on my HifiMAN HE-400S cans with the Focus pads, I can now hear the Magni 3 sound even better into the bass regions, 25-30 hours in and the slightly sat-upon initial sound has well gone and micro-dynamics and fine detail abound, never in your face, just naturally portrayed. I'm loving the fact that it now seems to very closely mirror the purity and sound balance from the coax output of the QP1R DAP to that of the Class A output of the DAP itself ....... _almost_ that pure. Bass is deep, clear, extended and punchy. I've asked and expected this level of performance from far more expensive amps and never got it. The M3 just gets on with it and plays music. Put on something with layers of sound; Kate Bush's Aerial for example and I find it so easy to focus on any detail within each layer, like focusing a camera lens within the depth of field. That's without a Mimby etc, using the onboard DAC in the QP1R.


----------



## AxelCloris

Cleaned up some of the recent conversation. Off topic posts were removed and discussions related to other products were moved to the appropriate threads. Please keep the discussion related to the Schiit Magni 3.


----------



## 0pethian (Oct 24, 2017)

So I have Magni 2 and I'm torn between upgrading my DAC+amp Fiio E17K to a dedicated DAC like Modi 2 or upgrade my amp to Magni 3 or grab a Magni 2 Uber at $79 from Amazon ... cause HE400i n DT990 Pro i use at Gain n 12oclock ... N still feel "empty"
I like what Fiio sound like ... But I don't have any experience of any other DAC other than my MacBook pro 2015 ...
So any suggestions?
In future I'm saving for HD650 or any used n modded HD700/800 if I'm lucky to find them


----------



## thirdworldman

0pethian said:


> So I have Magni 2 and I'm torn between upgrading my DAC+amp Fiio E17K to a dedicated DAC like Modi 2 or upgrade my amp to Magni 3 or grab a Magni 2 Uber at $79 from Amazon ... cause HE400i n DT990 Pro i use at Gain n 12oclock ... N still feel "empty"
> I like what Fiio sound like ... But I don't have any experience of any other DAC other than my MacBook pro 2015 ...
> So any suggestions?
> In future I'm saving for HD650 or any used n modded HD700/800 if I'm lucky to find them


Personally, I would get the Magni 3 and then reassess my DAC choice if the Fiio is found lacking.  I replaced a Magni 2 (non-Uber) with the Magni 3 and found it a much better sounding amp and a good choice to build around.  I'm 3 weeks in with the Magni 3 and I'm still amazed at the life-like sound it produces.
Good luck with your choices!


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Magni 3 arrived this morning!

Should I stack the amp on top of my Mimby, or does the DAC belong on top? The Mimby does run quite warm, and I obviously haven't tested the amp yet



thirdworldman said:


> Personally, I would get the Magni 3 and then reassess my DAC choice if the Fiio is found lacking.  I replaced a Magni 2 (non-Uber) with the Magni 3 and found it a much better sounding amp and a good choice to build around.  I'm 3 weeks in with the Magni 3 and I'm still amazed at the life-like sound it produces.
> Good luck with your choices!



This is very good advice. If looks matter to you though, a Schiit stack does look very classy.


----------



## thirdworldman (Oct 24, 2017)

DJ The Rocket said:


> Magni 3 arrived this morning!
> 
> Should I stack the amp on top of my Mimby, or does the DAC belong on top? The Mimby does run quite warm, and I obviously haven't tested the amp yet



The amp goes on top so the heat it produces can escape.


----------



## bboris77

DJ The Rocket said:


> Magni 3 arrived this morning!
> 
> Should I stack the amp on top of my Mimby, or does the DAC belong on top? The Mimby does run quite warm, and I obviously haven't tested the amp yet
> 
> ...



Personally, I would put them side by side although there may be a height difference since the Magni 3 uses new pressed in feet. If I had to stack, the Magni 3 would definitely go on top.


----------



## JoeKickass (Nov 3, 2017)

DJ The Rocket said:


> ...Should I stack the amp on top of my Mimby, or does the DAC belong on top? The Mimby does run quite warm, and I obviously haven't tested the amp yet...



Ideally the DAC should be at the bottom (or at least not above any heat-producing device) and left on 24/7 for maximum thermal stability.
Side-by-side should be ok as long as there is space for airflow so the DAC isn't warmed up by other devices.

Amps like the Magni 3 go on top and are best left uncovered since they quickly get the hottest.

I would put cool devices like the SYS, Eitr, etc. below the DAC, as a general rule keeping electronics cooler is better, but I don't imagine a DAC would heat them up much.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

JoeKickass said:


> I don't imagine a DAC would heat them up much



Have you ever used a Modi Multibit? It runs much, much warmer than your average DAC.


----------



## vampirehunterd

I've been listening to the Magni 3 for a few hours with Grado RS2s/Sennheiser HD 650s and I'm digging the sound so far.  The Magni 3 really seems to make the RS2s sing with my very low budget setup.


----------



## JoeKickass (Oct 24, 2017)

DJ The Rocket said:


> Have you ever used a Modi Multibit? It runs much, much warmer than your average DAC.


Yup, it's only a little warm compared to an amp, but I still have it at the top of my stack:

(Yes I'm a hypocrite, my amp is on the bottom, I'd love to see someone try a Jot on Mimby stack!)






Note to Schiit, brushed metal SYS should be top priority! It's sticks out worse in pictures though...


----------



## gadu

Is the magni 3 worth it over the magni 2 uber?

There's a deal right now for magni 2u for 70 dollars and I'm potentially in the market for one or the other


----------



## DavidA

gadu said:


> Is the magni 3 worth it over the magni 2 uber?
> 
> There's a deal right now for magni 2u for 70 dollars and I'm potentially in the market for one or the other


For $30 the Magni3 is worth it to me after having the Magni and hearing the Magni2uber that a friend had.


----------



## Kolapso

Magni 3 on the way!


----------



## Panimation

Just placed an order for a Magni 3 and Mimby... My first Schiit Stack! This is exciting, a little upgrade over my Fiio E10k.


----------



## 0pethian

thirdworldman said:


> Personally, I would get the Magni 3 and then reassess my DAC choice if the Fiio is found lacking.  I replaced a Magni 2 (non-Uber) with the Magni 3 and found it a much better sounding amp and a good choice to build around.  I'm 3 weeks in with the Magni 3 and I'm still amazed at the life-like sound it produces.
> Good luck with your choices!



I have two options, since I live in Pakistan so shipping n customs would cost me alot ... 
Magni 2 Uber would cost me around 100 USD (from Amazon as it's on sale @72USD) and Magni 3 if I order directly from Schiit website it will cost me more than 170USD. 
So ... If I save those 70USD I can add it towards a good DAC or my HD600/650 funds


----------



## Dave01236

Panimation said:


> Just placed an order for a Magni 3 and Mimby... My first Schiit Stack! This is exciting, a little upgrade over my Fiio E10k.



I had the fiio e10k too when I decided to buy the magni 2 a long time ago. It was a big change for me. At first it was hard for me to notice anything at all, but after a few weeks when I decided to go back to the fiio e10k again it was only for a couple of minutes. Then I went back to the magni 2 immediately.

And now we have the magni 3. So I highly doubt that you'll be disappointed!


----------



## quimbo (Oct 25, 2017)

Received my Modi 2, Magna 3 and ATH-MX50 yesterday.  This is for my work setup and replaces a Fulla 2 and AKG K451.  Initial impressions after 60 minutes in is it certainly sounds better than the previous setup and worth the small investment.  I will probably get a loki next for work (have one for home).  I also feed the Magna 3 into Creative Gigaworks T20 speakers at work and they sound slightly better than with the Fulla 2.


----------



## DavidA

0pethian said:


> I have two options, since I live in Pakistan so shipping n customs would cost me alot ...
> Magni 2 Uber would cost me around 100 USD (from Amazon as it's on sale @72USD) and Magni 3 if I order directly from Schiit website it will cost me more than 170USD.
> So ... If I save those 70USD I can add it towards a good DAC or my HD600/650 funds


That's a difficult choice since the price difference is so large but to me the Magni3 at $170 might still be the better buy in the long run.  I also think that the Magni3 is a slightly better match to the DT990 and HE400i than the Magni2uber.  Have you looked at other gear that might be easier to obtain with less shipping / customs cost?


----------



## 0pethian

DavidA said:


> That's a difficult choice since the price difference is so large but to me the Magni3 at $170 might still be the better buy in the long run.  I also think that the Magni3 is a slightly better match to the DT990 and HE400i than the Magni2uber.  Have you looked at other gear that might be easier to obtain with less shipping / customs cost?


Add $30-40 to Amazon listing 
So if I'm shedding $170 what else is an equally good choice?


----------



## DavidA

0pethian said:


> Add $30-40 to Amazon listing
> So if I'm shedding $170 what else is an equally good choice?


I haven't spent much time looking in the $100-200 range lately but was in this thread since a friend was looking for a cheap temporary amp while waiting for the CTH and LCX.  One DAC/amp that has interested me is the R2R 11 from Audio GD which would put it at about the same price as a Magni3 + Mimby.  Have you considered a hybrid tube amp like the Vali2?  To me it might be a slightly better amp for the headphones you currently have and since you are also considering the HD650/600.  I know many don't want to deal with tubes since they have a limited life span but for some headphones like the HD800 and T1 tubes are what many suggest.


----------



## Jimster480

gadu said:


> Is the magni 3 worth it over the magni 2 uber?
> 
> There's a deal right now for magni 2u for 70 dollars and I'm potentially in the market for one or the other


I doubt it really. 
Save yourself 30$. The Magni 2 uber is already strong enough to drive any headphones in mankind past the limits of human hearing and enough to make you deaf. 


0pethian said:


> I have two options, since I live in Pakistan so shipping n customs would cost me alot ...
> Magni 2 Uber would cost me around 100 USD (from Amazon as it's on sale @72USD) and Magni 3 if I order directly from Schiit website it will cost me more than 170USD.
> So ... If I save those 70USD I can add it towards a good DAC or my HD600/650 funds


Definitely not worth it for that price. 

Stay with the Magni 2 or get a topping A30 instead if you need an amp with a pre out.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

With my Mr. Speakers Alpha Primes (and with a Mimby as a source) the Magni 3 lives at about 3PM on the volume, but there's still plenty of headroom left. I can't turn the volume all the way up, it's way too loud before I get there. So I doubt the Magni 3 is a good choice for an HE6 or K1000, but for almost literally anything else in the electrodynamic and planar world, it will sound great driving whatever else you have. 

My unit at least doesn't have any hum or hiss or anything, at full volume with no source.


----------



## Jimster480

DJ The Rocket said:


> With my Mr. Speakers Alpha Primes (and with a Mimby as a source) the Magni 3 lives at about 3PM on the volume, but there's still plenty of headroom left. I can't turn the volume all the way up, it's way too loud before I get there. So I doubt the Magni 3 is a good choice for an HE6 or K1000, but for almost literally anything else in the electrodynamic and planar world, it will sound great driving whatever else you have.
> 
> My unit at least doesn't have any hum or hiss or anything, at full volume with no source.


Magni 3 drove my YH-2 to a high volume (too high for long term listening) at 3PM on low gain.
I never even tried high gain.
My more sensitive headphones had 0 volume control as they would barely get off of 830 and they would be loud.
My AH-MM400 I could get to around 9 with and the D7200 Denons really couldn't get barely off of 815 before it was already getting pretty loud.
With my 1More Quad drivers I could get to 845ish, but I don't use them with a great seal anyway.


----------



## JoeKickass

Jimster480 said:


> Magni 3 drove my YH-2 to a high volume (too high for long term listening) at 3PM on low gain.
> I never even tried high gain.


I'm not sure but I always thought high gain in general had better sound quality...

Does anyone notice any diminished sound quality on low gain?


----------



## Jimster480

JoeKickass said:


> I'm not sure but I always thought high gain in general had better sound quality...
> 
> Does anyone notice any diminished sound quality on low gain?


Its a placebo affect as often louder tones sound clearer even if they aren't.

From an electrical perspective you should use the lowest gain.


----------



## sennsay

DJ The Rocket said:


> Magni 3 arrived this morning!
> 
> Should I stack the amp on top of my Mimby, or does the DAC belong on top? The Mimby does run quite warm, and I obviously haven't tested the amp yet
> 
> ...


Yes it does, compact and classy in a clean and simple way  Magni 3 on top is probably best, mine can run warmish depending on the load, though nothing remotely like the Valhalla 2! 
I would really love an Yggy ...... but realistically a Mimby is a good start! And besides, they just look so good stacked  I'm still delighted that the M3 can run my 600 ohm Senn HD540 Reference cans remarkably well, even though that's what the V2 is for at twice the power into that load.


----------



## sennsay (Oct 25, 2017)

JoeKickass said:


> I'm not sure but I always thought high gain in general had better sound quality...
> 
> Does anyone notice any diminished sound quality on low gain?


Using HifiMAN HE400S I prefer high gain 95% of the time, very occasionally with some high output recordings the sound smooths out a tad and becomes a little more relaxing to listen to. Still plenty of power too. To All New Arrivals by Faithless is a good example, just a touch less in-your-face on low gain. Basic balance doesn't change though, as the output impedance doesn't change, it's one of the other things I love about this little amp, in my experience the frequency response of various headphones isn't altered by a change in output impedance, each of my cans showing their native sound signature.


----------



## Jimster480

sennsay said:


> Using HifiMAN HE400S I prefer high gain 95% of the time, very occasionally with some high output recordings the sound smooths out a tad and becomes a little more relaxing to listen to. Still plenty of power too. To All New Arrivals by Faithless is a good example, just a touch less in-your-face on low gain. Basic balance doesn't change though, as the output impedance doesn't change, it's one of the other things I love about this little amp, in my experience the frequency response of various headphones isn't altered by a change in output impedance, each of my cans showing their native sound signature.


And at what volume on the pot? Because honestly those look super efficient....


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Oct 25, 2017)

Actually I've tried it both ways now, and I prefer the ModiBit on top. It just runs way too hot on the bottom.

I just noticed that the guy who sold the Modibit to me included a 14V wall wart, but the Modi says it takes 16V. Is this why it's running so hot?


----------



## sennsay (Oct 25, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> And at what volume on the pot? Because honestly those look super efficient....


Mmm, efficient ... yet still needing some driving power to be at their best. I have the Focus pads on them which generally improves them greatly. Volume often around 9:30-10pm on high gain, 2:30 or so on low. Currently have Neil Young's Sleeps With Angels on, 10:30pm on the dial, punchy and loud enough, if I use low gain I need 3pm and the sheer bass drive lessens a fair bit on this album.
I should add that this is with the QP1R using coax out from the internal DAC straight into the M3. Output could be less than using a Mimby. I'll try that with my FrankenZero DAC later


----------



## sennsay

DJ The Rocket said:


> Actually I've tried it both ways now, and I prefer the ModiBit on top. It just runs way too hot on the bottom.
> 
> I just noticed that the guy who sold the Modibit to me included a 14V wall wart, but the Modi says it takes 16V. Is this why it's running so hot?


Are you enjoying what you hear through the pair? Maybe it's too early, eh, neither are properly run in yet


----------



## alpovs

DJ The Rocket said:


> I just noticed that the guy who sold the Modibit to me included a 14V wall wart, but the Modi says it takes 16V. Is this why it's running so hot?


I think so. I would stop using it until you get the proper power supply.


----------



## Jimster480

alpovs said:


> I think so. I would stop using it until you get the proper power supply.


Its actually requiring more power than the wall wart makes typically.
So that is under volting and not over volting.


----------



## Jimster480

sennsay said:


> Mmm, efficient ... yet still needing some driving power to be at their best. I have the Focus pads on them which generally improves them greatly. Volume often around 9:30-10pm on high gain, 2:30 or so on low. Currently have Neil Young's Sleeps With Angels on, 10:30pm on the dial, punchy and loud enough, if I use low gain I need 3pm and the sheer bass drive lessens a fair bit on this album.
> I should add that this is with the QP1R using coax out from the internal DAC straight into the M3. Output could be less than using a Mimby. I'll try that with my FrankenZero DAC later


By Coax you mean RCA?


sennsay said:


> Mmm, efficient ... yet still needing some driving power to be at their best. I have the Focus pads on them which generally improves them greatly. Volume often around 9:30-10pm on high gain, 2:30 or so on low. Currently have Neil Young's Sleeps With Angels on, 10:30pm on the dial, punchy and loud enough, if I use low gain I need 3pm and the sheer bass drive lessens a fair bit on this album.
> I should add that this is with the QP1R using coax out from the internal DAC straight into the M3. Output could be less than using a Mimby. I'll try that with my FrankenZero DAC later


Gotta love expensive DAP's like this with relatively no specs, $999 price. Made in China, using the same chip as others selling DAC's / DAP's for $200 and not even a line out spec.....


----------



## DavidA

alpovs said:


> I think so. I would stop using it until you get the proper power supply.


According to the Schiit site the Mimby can also use the 14V wall wart: http://www.schiit.com/products/wall-warts


----------



## Jimster480

DavidA said:


> According to the Schiit site the Mimby can also use the 14V wall wart: http://www.schiit.com/products/wall-warts


That makes sense since its 1500mah instead of 500mah.


----------



## sennsay (Oct 25, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> By Coax you mean RCA?
> 
> Gotta love expensive DAP's like this with relatively no specs, $999 price. Made in China, using the same chip as others selling DAC's / DAP's for $200 and not even a line out spec.....


The sonic wonders of the QP1R speak for themselves. With the M3, Valhalla 2 and main system it gives wonderful results ... and this is a Magni 3 thread, with which I enjoy the combo very much thank you. It also gives sterling results from the laptop and MusicStreamer II+, full of life. A great little amp with a multitude of uses.


----------



## alpovs

DavidA said:


> According to the Schiit site the Mimby can also use the 14V wall wart: http://www.schiit.com/products/wall-warts


Hmm, true. They list something called "Modi Optical" in that link but I think they meant Modi Multibit.


----------



## Voxata

I really like the Magni 3. It is voiced well, performs great and is really transparent. Polite/smooth treble. The subbass is polite as well, still.. the sound is very easy to listen to and engaging.


----------



## DavidA

alpovs said:


> Hmm, true. They list something called "Modi Optical" in that link but I think they meant Modi Multibit.


The was a Modi optical at one time, I have one


----------



## wowyahoo

I wonder how these compare to the orginal, which I have.


----------



## alpovs

DavidA said:


> The was a Modi optical at one time, I have one


I wonder if it means that Modi Multibit can't be powered by the 14V wall wart.


----------



## JoeKickass (Oct 27, 2017)

alpovs said:


> I wonder if it means that Modi Multibit can't be powered by the 14V wall wart.



Schiit's 16V devices CAN be powered by 14V supplies
but their 14V devices CANNOT be powered by 16V supplies

It's in the Cthulu page: http://www.schiit.com/products/floor-wart

EDIT: 'doh!


----------



## alpovs

JoeKickass said:


> Schiit's 14V devices CAN be powered by 16V supplies
> but their 16V devices CANNOT be powered by 14V supplies
> 
> It's in the Cthulu page: http://www.schiit.com/products/floor-wart


In that page it's the other way around:

(1) 14VAC at 1500mA (for any of our products using 14 or 16VAC)
(2) 16VAC at 500mA (for any of our products using 16VAC)


----------



## kman1211 (Oct 26, 2017)

JoeKickass said:


> Schiit's 14V devices CAN be powered by 16V supplies
> but their 16V devices CANNOT be powered by 14V supplies
> 
> It's in the Cthulu page: http://www.schiit.com/products/floor-wart



It's the opposite. The 14VAC wall-wart can be used to power both the 14V and 16V devices. A general rule of thumb is never use a power supply that is above the rated voltage of a device. A power supply at a lower voltage is generally regarded as safe but ideal to make sure the voltage is close to the device. Too low of an amplitude can also cause issues, while having more than the rated is fine.


----------



## Mightygrey

Magni 3 just arrived on my desk at work! Super keen to try it out tonight at home. Going to be using two lines-out from my Chord MojoPoly into my Crack and Speedball and Magni 3 respectively and do me some A/B-ing after volume-matching - might even ask my other half to take care of the "blind" duties for me...

Sold my Asgard 2 and pocketed enough money to get a couple of very nice cases of beer with the difference over the Magni 3 price, which should make a different type of audio 'upgrade' altogether!


----------



## Panimation

Mightygrey said:


> Magni 3 just arrived on my desk at work! Super keen to try it out tonight at home. Going to be using two lines-out from my Chord MojoPoly into my Crack and Speedball and Magni 3 respectively and do me some A/B-ing after volume-matching - might even ask my other half to take care of the "blind" duties for me...
> 
> Sold my Asgard 2 and pocketed enough money to get a couple of very nice cases of beer with the difference over the Magni 3 price, which should make a different type of audio 'upgrade' altogether!


Beer is love.


----------



## kman1211

Been spending more time with the Magni 3, quite liking the amp, very good for the price, definitely a versatile amp. Tonally the Magni reminds me more of a less refined sounding Sony UDA-1 than the past Schiit amps I tried. The Magni 3 and UDA-1 have a similar treble and midrange presentation with the Sony being a bit smoother, the Sony is also more dynamic and 3D sounding with notably more heft. I'll keep the Magni 3 as it is more versatile than the Sony in terms of driving a variety of headphones. But on headphones the UDA-1 puts enough power in(250-300 ohm dynamics), the UDA-1 is definitely better to my ears.


----------



## trellus

Got my Schiit Magni 3 in today!  My first brand new Schiit amp -- I bought the original Fulla and the original Vali second-hand here from Head Fi.

First impressions -- surprised that, given the power rating, it doesn't get nearly as loud as my plebeian Samson QH4 4-output amp (which I picked up brand new on eBay for $50!).  (Source is a Yulong U100 DAC/amp on the line out from my Windows 10 computer).

That surprised me a lot... that's on high gain, and across three different headphones -- HE-500, K712 Pro, and HD 650. 

It does sound good, though, and it certainly goes more than loud enough -- at just short of 3 o'clock on the HE-500, it's plenty loud with modern mastered music, and I would probably routinely not listen at louder than 2 o'clock.   But I thought it would have more power since the Samson QH4 is puny by comparison -- something on the order of 230 mW at 32 Ohm.


----------



## Jimster480

trellus said:


> Got my Schiit Magni 3 in today!  My first brand new Schiit amp -- I bought the original Fulla and the original Vali second-hand here from Head Fi.
> 
> First impressions -- surprised that, given the power rating, it doesn't get nearly as loud as my plebeian Samson QH4 4-output amp (which I picked up brand new on eBay for $50!).  (Source is a Yulong U100 DAC/amp on the line out from my Windows 10 computer).
> 
> ...


There is something wrong with your magni or your output source then.
because even 230mw is enough to blow your brains out for most headphones
Magni has like 3W (16ohm) and 2W(32 ohm) which is enough for a set of desktop speakers that can fill your entire room with sound, let alone a pair of headphones lol


----------



## trellus

Jimster480 said:


> There is something wrong with your magni or your output source then.
> because even 230mw is enough to blow your brains out for most headphones
> Magni has like 3W (16ohm) and 2W(32 ohm) which is enough for a set of desktop speakers that can fill your entire room with sound, let alone a pair of headphones lol



*shrug* Maybe, but it gets plenty loud enough for me, and it would be more trouble than it's worth to send it back.

I don't think it's the output source since I am switching from the exact same output source (Yulong U100 DAC) between the Magni 3 and the Samson QH4 to compare them.  I'm literally just switching from a cable from the U100 to the Magni 3 and the QH4.

I think I just expected to have way more headroom on the far more powerful (specwise at least) Magni 3 than on the QH4, and I'm not getting that.


----------



## kman1211 (Oct 27, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> There is something wrong with your magni or your output source then.
> because even 230mw is enough to blow your brains out for most headphones
> Magni has like 3W (16ohm) and 2W(32 ohm) which is enough for a set of desktop speakers that can fill your entire room with sound, let alone a pair of headphones lol



Not really, I've found Schiit amps gain to be slightly on the low side even on high gain compared to many other amps. The Magni 3 is no exception. Also more current doesn't always mean more loudness, there's also gain to factor in. It's very possible for a much less powerful amp to get much louder due to it having a lot more gain. It may not be all that controlled sounding though.


----------



## Jimster480

kman1211 said:


> Not really, I've found Schiit amps gain to be slightly on the low side even on high gain compared to many other amps. The Magni 3 is no exception.



For me it was glaringly loud on low gain... None of my headphones other than my Yamaha YH-2 could get past like 10oclock without getting to a almost bleeding level volume. 
It was part of what I didn't like since there is very little volume control with an Amp with this much power for most modern headphones.


----------



## kman1211 (Oct 27, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> For me it was glaringly loud on low gain... None of my headphones other than my Yamaha YH-2 could get past like 10oclock without getting to a almost bleeding level volume.
> It was part of what I didn't like since there is very little volume control with an Amp with this much power for most modern headphones.



It also depends on the impedance and efficiency of the headphones. Are you using any higher-impedance headphones? The person who said that was using higher-impedance or rather inefficient headphones. The HE-500 and K712(AKG's are often notoriously hard to drive) aren't really know for being easy to drive and the HD 650 is 300 ohms with an impedance spike in the bass region.


----------



## Jimster480

kman1211 said:


> It also depends on the impedance and efficiency of the headphones. Are you using any higher-impedance headphones? The person who said that was using higher-impedance or rather inefficient headphones. The HE-500 and K712 aren't really know for being easy to drive and the HD 650 is 300 ohms with an impedance spike in the bass region.



Like I said my heaviest headphones were YH-2 (Vintage Orthos) with 150ohm impedance and those only get to like 3oclock on Magni3 at low gain before its already getting out of the comfort zone. 

Since he was comparing with an Amp that has 200mw output at 32ohm...... that has about 10% of the power of Magni3 yet hes saying the Magni3 doesn't get loud?
Regardless of his headphone, the other Amp wouldn't be able to power his HD650 at all if its output was that low.


----------



## kman1211

Jimster480 said:


> Like I said my heaviest headphones were YH-2 (Vintage Orthos) with 150ohm impedance and those only get to like 3oclock on Magni3 at low gain before its already getting out of the comfort zone.
> 
> Since he was comparing with an Amp that has 200mw output at 32ohm...... that has about 10% of the power of Magni3 yet hes saying the Magni3 doesn't get loud?
> Regardless of his headphone, the other Amp wouldn't be able to power his HD650 at all if its output was that low.



I've experienced similar things myself with much less powerful amps getting much louder even if they can't power them fully. I've owned and heard a lot of amps, so not surprised by his findings.


----------



## FrivolsListener

Jimster480 said:


> There is something wrong with your magni or your output source then.
> because even 230mw is enough to blow your brains out for most headphones
> Magni has like 3W (16ohm) and 2W(32 ohm) which is enough for a set of desktop speakers that can fill your entire room with sound, let alone a pair of headphones lol



Some people like their headphones disturbingly loud.  At CanJam I sat next to some guy playing with Gadget with the volume so loud, I could hear his music over my music wearing my headphones.

I love what's left of my hearing too much to do that to my ears.


----------



## trellus

Jimster480 said:


> For me it was glaringly loud on low gain... None of my headphones other than my Yamaha YH-2 could get past like 10oclock without getting to a almost bleeding level volume.
> It was part of what I didn't like since there is very little volume control with an Amp with this much power for most modern headphones.



Curious, yeah, at 3 o'clock on high gain, my Magni 3 was getting about 90 dB with peaks of 95 dB on one song from Spotify I measured crudely (iPhone app).   But Magni 3 goes well past 3 o'clock as I recall (it's at work and I'm at home) and I took off the headphones and turned it up louder and it did get rather loud -- just not as loud as my Samson QH4 at the same position on the volume pot.


----------



## trellus

FrivolsListener said:


> Some people like their headphones disturbingly loud.  At CanJam I sat next to some guy playing with Gadget with the volume so loud, I could hear his music over my music wearing my headphones.
> 
> I love what's left of my hearing too much to do that to my ears.



I don't find 80 dB or even 85 dB (occasionally) to be disturbingly loud at all, though I am more often listening at about 70 - 75 dB.


----------



## trellus

Jimster480 said:


> Like I said my heaviest headphones were YH-2 (Vintage Orthos) with 150ohm impedance and those only get to like 3oclock on Magni3 at low gain before its already getting out of the comfort zone.
> 
> Since he was comparing with an Amp that has 200mw output at 32ohm...... that has about 10% of the power of Magni3 yet hes saying the Magni3 doesn't get loud?
> Regardless of his headphone, the other Amp wouldn't be able to power his HD650 at all if its output was that low.



No, I wasn't saying it doesn't loud -- it gets way louder than I listen to, definitely.  But I was surprised at how high I could go on the pot, relative to the position of the pot on the Samson QH4, before it became too loud to listen even for a little.  I just thought because of the power the Magni 3 would be much louder than the Samson.


----------



## DavidA

trellus said:


> No, I wasn't saying it doesn't loud -- it gets way louder than I listen to, definitely.  But I was surprised at how high I could go on the pot, relative to the position of the pot on the Samson QH4, before it became too loud to listen even for a little.  I just thought because of the power the Magni 3 would be much louder than the Samson.


I wouldn't worry about the position of the volume pot since most are not linear, FWIW my Lyr2 volume pot is at 2-3 o'clock for my HE560 on high gain and the listening level is around 70-75dB


----------



## PockyG (Oct 28, 2017)

Got my Magni 3 for a few days now in prep for when the HD 6XX finally ships. I'm really digging it so far!

Gives my equipment a slight sweetness or fullness to the sound. It's fantastic for headphones, my SHP9500S which was a bit lacking in bass with my previous equipment is near perfect. But best of all the preamp really takes my powered speakers to the next level. I think the volume pot could be a bit better but it's not too bad. Very impressive for the price!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

The volume control's still the weak spot on the magni?  Guess I'll keep my Magni 2 then...  I was really hoping for some better control on efficient headphones.


----------



## 370640

PockyG said:


> But best of all the preamp really takes my powered speakers to the next level.


What powered speakers do you have?


----------



## tafens

Panimation said:


> Just placed an order for a Magni 3 and Mimby... My first Schiit Stack! This is exciting, a little upgrade over my Fiio E10k.



Just ordered the exact same setup myself, MM+M3!

After reading the impressions here and also the great responses (especially from @erics75) to my question I posted a while ago about the difference of them compared to the Modi2U+Magni2U stack which I currently have, I was quite sold and ordered them just yesterday. Now awaiting delivery...


----------



## Panimation

tafens said:


> Just ordered the exact same setup myself, MM+M3!
> 
> After reading the impressions here and also the great responses (especially from @erics75) to my question I posted a while ago about the difference of them compared to the Modi2U+Magni2U stack which I currently have, I was quite sold and ordered them just yesterday. Now awaiting delivery...


Not gonna lie, was heavily considering Audio-GD NFB11.28 but I found the Schiit Stack being more versatile for me. Can't wait till it gets here!


----------



## Voxata (Oct 28, 2017)

My volume pot had no issues. No whooshing, no quick tracking. I sent it back though, I need more powah. For $99 though... Damn, that's a nice amp.


----------



## Coug (Oct 28, 2017)

trellus said:


> No, I wasn't saying it doesn't loud -- it gets way louder than I listen to, definitely.  But I was surprised at how high I could go on the pot, relative to the position of the pot on the Samson QH4, before it became too loud to listen even for a little.  I just thought because of the power the Magni 3 would be much louder than the Samson.



IIRC, Schiit changed the slope on the pot to allow better control for more sensitive phones.  That would mean the pot would be designed to put out less power at lower settings, and then ramp up more quickly at higher settings. 

I think others have talked about how sensitive the pot is past about 1 to 2 o'clock, which is in line with this arrangement. 

I don't know the slope,  but let's assume 1/4 power is in the first half of the pot movement, you re going to have to get past 12 o'clock just to get above 1/4 power. Just a design thing that allows more control at lower settings, and more pot movement to get more power in the lower range of the pot, and less movement in the upper range for the same power change.


----------



## trellus

Coug said:


> IIRC, Schiit changed the slope on the pot to allow better control for more sensitive phones.  That would mean the pot would be designed to put out less power at lower settings, and then ramp up more quickly at higher settings.
> 
> I think others have talked about how sensitive the pot is past about 1 to 2 o'clock, which is in line with this arrangement.
> 
> I don't know the slope,  but let's assume 1/4 power is in the first half of the pot movement, you re going to have to get past 12 o'clock just to get above 1/4 power.



I get that, it’s not linear, I know that, but I’m way past 12 o’clock - the bottom line I was trying to get it is that at full volume, the QH4 is definitely louder than the Magni 3 on my HE-500 (and no, they weren’t on my ears when I tested that! )


----------



## alpovs

trellus said:


> I get that, it’s not linear, I know that, but I’m way past 12 o’clock - the bottom line I was trying to get it is that at full volume, the QH4 is definitely louder than the Magni 3 on my HE-500 (and no, they weren’t on my ears when I tested that! )


Do you know the gain of the QH4? Output impedance? I could not find this information on their website. These could answer why the QH4 is louder.


----------



## FrivolsListener

Volume controls are decidedly non-linear because our hearing is non-linear.  To make something sound "twice as loud" takes 100 times the power, for example, and twice as much power is barely noticeable to the average person.  My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that an audio-taper potentiometer is at 10% in the 12 o'clock position.  I don't know what Jason did to make Magni 3 provide more fine control at lower level settings, but he did say that it did indeed do that.


----------



## trellus

alpovs said:


> Do you know the gain of the QH4? Output impedance? I could not find this information on their website. These could answer why the QH4 is louder.



I'm afraid I don't know either output impedance nor gain specs on the QH4.  In any case, it really was just a quick impression between it and the Magni 3.  The Magni 3 definitely goes louder than I can stand on the HE-500 and the other headphones I tested, including the T50RP MK3.


----------



## JoeKickass

Voxata said:


> ...I sent it back though, I need more powah...


Wow what headphones are you driving?

The Magni 3 is more powerful than the single ended Jot and the Asgard 2, and it's only about 30% down on power from the Lyr 2 (for 300 & 600 ohm headphones)


----------



## SomeTechNoob

JoeKickass said:


> Wow what headphones are you driving?
> 
> The Magni 3 is more powerful than the single ended Jot and the Asgard 2, and it's only about 30% down on power from the Lyr 2 (for 300 & 600 ohm headphones)


Yup this statement confused me a lot.  Either you really must be deaf or your source has a low voltage line out.


----------



## Voxata (Oct 28, 2017)

The power from my old Jot gripped the HD650 drivers well. Bass was more impactful with strong slam. Also, the treble is very laid back on Magni 3. It's a great amp, however the Jot takes it in the lower and upper regions IMO, however some prefer the laid back treble. Strong layered and controlled bass requires some power.. not to say Magni 3 isn't strong, however it's bass/slam quality is nowhere near Jot. Sure do love Magni3 mids though.


----------



## treecloud

according the the QH4 mfg web site:

Output Power: 282mW per side / 564mW per channel, loaded 32Ω
http://www.samsontech.com/samson/products/processors/qh4/qh4/

I'm not sure what the difference is between per side and per channel, but let's take the higher number of 564mW into 32ohms...according to Schiit the Magni 3 is capable of 2 watts into a 32 ohm load. If those numbers are correct for both products the Magni 3 would be about 4x more powerful. So I guess you have a bit of a mystery on your hands


----------



## -ImageX

-ImageX said:


> They wanted me to send it back in so they could look at it again. Instead, I requested a replacement amp be sent out right away...while my return is in transit.



My replacement amp was an improvement but still left a lot to be desired imo. I found the solution though and have TONS of volume now with the HD650. I guess the various line cables I was using weren’t “premium” enough! I changed that.

Thank you, Monoprice!


----------



## sennsay

Well done for the upgrade  My 2 week old Magni 3 is sounding fantastic tonight, continuing to improve as the hours build a bit. Kimber USB cable to MusicStreamer II+, hand braided pure silver ribbon cables to the M3 and HifiMAN HE-400S cans with Focus pads finish off the set. MacBook Pro with iTunes set to 24/96kHz output, nothing fancy there. Alt-J Live at Red Rocks sounding brilliant, almost like being there, individual crowd noises are transparently obvious, the amp just even from the deepest bass to the high top end. Personally loving the amp.


----------



## Tuneslover

-ImageX said:


> My replacement amp was an improvement but still left a lot to be desired imo. I found the solution though and have TONS of volume now with the HD650. I guess the various line cables I was using weren’t “premium” enough! I changed that.
> 
> Thank you, Monoprice!



Cables eh?


----------



## Jimster480

treecloud said:


> according the the QH4 mfg web site:
> 
> Output Power: 282mW per side / 564mW per channel, loaded 32Ω
> http://www.samsontech.com/samson/products/processors/qh4/qh4/
> ...


This is in-line with what i said earlier.


----------



## Jimster480

treecloud said:


> according the the QH4 mfg web site:
> 
> Output Power: 282mW per side / 564mW per channel, loaded 32Ω
> http://www.samsontech.com/samson/products/processors/qh4/qh4/
> ...


This is in-line with what i said earlier. 


-ImageX said:


> My replacement amp was an improvement but still left a lot to be desired imo. I found the solution though and have TONS of volume now with the HD650. I guess the various line cables I was using weren’t “premium” enough! I changed that.
> 
> Thank you, Monoprice!


What cables were you using? Typically any cable will work.


----------



## -ImageX (Oct 29, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> This is in-line with what i said earlier.
> 
> What cables were you using? Typically any cable will work.


I had three different cables. This one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LBK3870/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

.... another very similar to it and then your typical generic cable. As soon as I plugged in the Monoprice cable.... I got at least twice the volume. Either something was wrong with all three cables I tried before that one.... or cables do help. The Monoprice cable is a MUCH heavier gauge too.


----------



## DavidA

-ImageX said:


> I had three different cables. This one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LBK3870/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> .... another very similar to it and then your typical generic cable. As soon as I plugged in the Monoprice cable.... I got at least twice the volume. Either something was wrong with all three cables I tried before that one.... or cables do help. The Monoprice cable is a MUCH heavier gauge too.


Highly unlikely you had 3 bad cables, seems more like a issue with the RCA jack of the Magni3 where the first 3 cables didn't make good contact and the latest cable having a more solid connection.


----------



## Jimster480

-ImageX said:


> I had three different cables. This one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LBK3870/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> .... another very similar to it and then your typical generic cable. As soon as I plugged in the Monoprice cable.... I got at least twice the volume. Either something was wrong with all three cables I tried before that one.... or cables do help. The Monoprice cable is a MUCH heavier gauge too.



Are they all the same length? Because that could surely play a factor.


----------



## -ImageX

Jimster480 said:


> Are they all the same length? Because that could surely play a factor.



They are close to same length but I also bought an extra longer Monoprice cable and it’s good. This is extremely odd though because after trying the Monoprice cables and things working well..... I went back and tried the FosPower cable and it’s good. It’s playing louder now than it ever did before. Very very odd. I am wondering if there was some issue with the HD650s(or possibly the X5 MkIII) that has now worked itself out? I have no clue but things are finally working great and I’m happy with the Magni 3.


----------



## Jimster480

-ImageX said:


> They are close to same length but I also bought an extra longer Monoprice cable and it’s good. This is extremely odd though because after trying the Monoprice cables and things working well..... I went back and tried the FosPower cable and it’s good. It’s playing louder now than it ever did before. Very very odd. I am wondering if there was some issue with the HD650s(or possibly the X5 MkIII) that has now worked itself out? I have no clue but things are finally working great and I’m happy with the Magni 3.


That makes even less sense, but as long as you are satisfied with it now... well then that is what matters.


----------



## sennsay

Well, all I can add to that is that my own M3 went from a bit flat and slightly restrictive in apparent output when new, to blossoming a week and a half later, Now it rocks! I s'pose it doesn't really matter if all's well, eh?  What I discovered last night that the M3 is well transparent enough to show up cables and combos before it and I'm now using it almost exclusively with MusicStreamer II+ and silver cables where it is truly an grossing bit of kit.


----------



## -ImageX

sennsay said:


> Well, all I can add to that is that my own M3 went from a bit flat and slightly restrictive in apparent output when new, to blossoming a week and a half later, Now it rocks! I s'pose it doesn't really matter if all's well, eh?  What I discovered last night that the M3 is well transparent enough to show up cables and combos before it and I'm now using it almost exclusively with MusicStreamer II+ and silver cables where it is truly an grossing bit of kit.



This seems to be exactly what I experienced. It was quite a drastic change... for the better... and much more than just “getting used to it”. It still seems very odd to me but whatever.... as all is definitely well now.


----------



## ScOgLiO

Just placed my order for the Magni 3. EU sellers have apparently run out of the product, so I went directly to mummy Schiit for it  at least EUR/USD is a favourable exchange, shipping should be quick...I'm just mentally preparing to pay custom charges 

It's my first stand-alone amp (my Creative X-Fi HD has an integrated one, but hell, the Magni 3 seems too good to pass out the idea of upgrading) and I'm finally going to squeeze a bit more out of my cans! Plus, handy pre-amp for my Yamaha HS-M10, surely appreciated.
Will give my non-expert opinion when I get it


----------



## MixMasterMan (Oct 30, 2017)

trellus said:


> *shrug* Maybe, but it gets plenty loud enough for me, and it would be more trouble than it's worth to send it back.
> 
> I don't think it's the output source since I am switching from the exact same output source (Yulong U100 DAC) between the Magni 3 and the Samson QH4 to compare them.  I'm literally just switching from a cable from the U100 to the Magni 3 and the QH4.
> 
> I think I just expected to have way more headroom on the far more powerful (specwise at least) Magni 3 than on the QH4, and I'm not getting that.



This is what surprised me when I compared the Magni 2 to the QH4. I don't read into specs all that much, because often times they can be deceiving. I only trust my ears. I was already skeptical that the Magni 3 has as much headroom as the QH4 for high impedance headphones. The QH4 is very neutral and doesn't change the sound source. It just provides clean amplification with tons of headroom (which is most important to me). It revealed the shortcomings of the Magni 2. Considering you now have the Magni 3 & QH4, THIS is the comparison I've been waiting for. How does the Magni 3 compare to the QH4 in terms of sound, given equal volume between the two ? 

EDIT: PS, I find that the optimal master volume level on the QH4 for dynamic frequency response on my hardest to drive cans, is between 3-4/10 on the dial. Then adjust channel volumes to taste. At flat EQ/unity gain (line level) feeding the amp on my hardest to drive high impedance headphones (DT880 250 ohms); for the loudest/cleanest/most dynamic comfortable volume, I have the master at 3.5, and channel at 8. So, my suggestion when comparing the 2, is to keep the master volume on the QH4 at or below 4/10. I trust you'll get the best comparison observations at these settings.


----------



## mmmadog

I just got my stack today. Barely enough power for my 600ohm dt880. From what I'm reading it needs to break in. Right now sound is ok not much bass slam kind of bright but for what I paid I cannot complain. Like the fact they take up very little room.


----------



## Jimster480

mmmadog said:


> I just got my stack today. Barely enough power for my 600ohm dt880. From what I'm reading it needs to break in. Right now sound is ok not much bass slam kind of bright but for what I paid I cannot complain. Like the fact they take up very little room.


There is no break in period for amps like this. It is a myth as solid state devices don't really need any break in, just at best a "warm-up" period.
The Magni 3 should have enough power for anything, so I would check your sources output.


----------



## Jimster480

-ImageX said:


> This seems to be exactly what I experienced. It was quite a drastic change... for the better... and much more than just “getting used to it”. It still seems very odd to me but whatever.... as all is definitely well now.


Its 100% getting used to it as break in does not occur for integrated circuits or power transformers.


----------



## MixMasterMan

I need to break in my solid state headphone amp. It'll surly open up and blossom after 10 hrs burn in. But, It'll be even better when I upgrade the USB cable feeding the DAC, to something that sounds warmer and more analog...


----------



## Jimster480

MixMasterMan said:


> I need to break in my solid state headphone amp. It'll surly open up and blossom after 10 hrs burn in. But, It'll be even better when I upgrade the USB cable feeding the DAC, to something that sounds warmer and more analog...


lmao this has to be a troll


----------



## CarlosUnchained (Oct 30, 2017)

MixMasterMan said:


> I need to break in my solid state headphone amp. It'll surly open up and blossom after 10 hrs burn in. But, It'll be even better when I upgrade the USB cable feeding the DAC, to something that sounds warmer and more analog...



Remember, the source is also important. Free range bits have the most natural and lush sound.


----------



## sennsay (Oct 30, 2017)

mmmadog said:


> I just got my stack today. Barely enough power for my 600ohm dt880. From what I'm reading it needs to break in. Right now sound is ok not much bass slam kind of bright but for what I paid I cannot complain. Like the fact they take up very little room.


Just give them a week or two and they'll start to blossom and loosen up. I'm amazed that my 600 ohm Senn HD540 Reference cans can be driven by them (around 1-3pm on the dial mostly) AND sound like themselves. Sure the Valhalla 2 is better for them - especially with the wonderful Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8s! - and yet the M3 will do it. Bass will free up, become more transparent and extend and in fact I am finding transparency across the board has improved, especially this last week. The feeling of space and pinpoint details from the audience in live recordings is nearly up to the V2 with Senn HD540s and that's pretty damn good! The rest of my gear is long term run in and I trust my hearing. Purely my own personal experience, of course  44+ years of it and still loving every bit of it!
It will still be different for the individual depending on many factors, it would be pretty boring if everyone had the same experience!


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut

mmmadog said:


> I just got my stack today. Barely enough power for my 600ohm dt880. From what I'm reading it needs to break in. Right now sound is ok not much bass slam kind of bright but for what I paid I cannot complain. Like the fact they take up very little room.



I've heard that they're bright from several people, two of which whose opinion I trust.


----------



## -ImageX

Jimster480 said:


> Its 100% getting used to it as break in does not occur for integrated circuits or power transformers.



I know the difference between “getting use to it” and a drastic change in output. Regardless if it were break in or a problem correcting itself.... it was 100% NOT just getting use to it.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

alpovs said:


> I think so. I would stop using it until you get the proper power supply.



As others have noted, Schiit actually ships the 14V with the Modibit sometimes. But I did order the correct 16V supply from Schiit anyway, and the only change I can detect clearly is that it's putting out a full line-level signal now; it was lower before, so now it gives me a little bit more headroom on the magni 3, which is worth it to me, since I use a lot of power hungry planars. 

Subjectively I FEEL like Modi might be a little more crisp sounding too now, but I have a low confidence about that (I don't have tools to volume match within 1dB anyway) and I'm not going to bother ABing it


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Oct 31, 2017)

Question for others using the preamp outs on their Magni 3: where do you set the volume on the Magni? 100%? Which happens to be WAY above line level...

I'm using it as a "preamp" for my Stax amp, which doesn't truly need one, but it's more convenient than switching cables. Should I just get an RCA Y-cable to plug the DAC directly into both amps at once? FWIW I'm not sure but I think I can detect a difference in quality: using Magni 3 at 50% volume (and the Stax at 12:00) doesn't sound as good as turning the Magni up and the Stax down (100% and 10:00). Yeah, keeping the Magni at 100% sounds damn good. I'm pretty sure my Stax is rated to accept twice line level, which is probably about what it's getting. Does anyone know for sure?


Edit: My Magni is easy to reach, my much larger Stax amp not so much. I've set the Stax to the max. volume I'm going to want, and I'm using the Magni for most adjustments. As long as I keep the Magni above 75% I can't tell any difference in the sound quality.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Oct 31, 2017)

kman1211 said:


> I've experienced similar things myself with much less powerful amps getting much louder even if they can't power them fully. I've owned and heard a lot of amps, so not surprised by his findings.



Is this possibly a volume vs. gain thing? More gain = more volume, effectively, but that comes with problems such as raising the noise floor with the volume. And as you point out, gain cannot replace actual power!



Tuneslover said:


> My Jot definitely was better sounding after a few days...no doubt about it.



Using what headphones? Better sounding in what way? This is a comparison I'd like to hear more about! Or wait, were you only talking about "burn in"?

I don't want to say you're wrong, I don't know enough to say that burn-in shouldn't have an effect on an SS amp, but what could possibly be happening in there? An amp is not a mechanical device, there are no moving parts that need to be seated together. I've heard that brand new capacitors can sometimes "burn-in" with use, but if I understand right Schiit didn't put any in the audio path


----------



## thaimeo1 (Nov 1, 2017)

Hello guys.
Have anyone tried magni 3 with HE400i. i have been looking for an amp for my HE400i, i have not tried the Magni3 as the shipment to my country  takes so long.

P/S I have been considering buying the Jotunheim thanks to its XLR output( which will cost me $150 more for upgrading my cable as well). Does the improvement worth the money difference?


----------



## DudeImBetter

thaimeo1 said:


> Hello guys.
> Have anyone tried magni 3 with HE400i. i have been looking for an amp for my HE400i, i have not tried the Magni3 as the shipment to my country  takes so long.
> 
> P/S I have been considering buying the Jotunheim thanks to its XLR output( which will cost me $150 more for upgrading my cable as well). Does the improvement worth the money difference?



I'm not an expert on amps or headphones in general, but I currently have the fiio q1 dac -> magni 3 -> he 400i. It sounds pretty good, definitely a big jump from on-board amp or the q1 amp. Compared to the magni 2 it sounds smoother if that makes sense, and the highs are a little more tamed but not much more than the magni 2. I wouldn't be able to compare it to the Jotunheim, but if you're currently using the 400i's without amping them this is definitely gonna make a big difference. Off topic but in the mean time try these equalizer settings on the 400is with the new plugs https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-he-400i-impressions-and-discussion.698974/page-533, they reduce the harshness in the highs which is more present without an amp, mids sound much cleaner too in my opinion.


----------



## DavidA

thaimeo1 said:


> Hello guys.
> Have anyone tried magni 3 with HE400i. i have been looking for an amp for my HE400i, i have not tried the Magni3 as the shipment to my country  takes so long.
> 
> P/S I have been considering buying the Jotunheim thanks to its XLR output( which will cost me $150 more for upgrading my cable as well). Does the improvement worth the money difference?


Tried the Magni3 with HE400i a week ago at a friends house, pretty good to great for the price IMO.  I wouldn't get the Jot for the HE400i due to it being a bit bright to me and while the allure of a balanced output on the Jot is nice I didn't notice any difference in sound quality from the SE output after level matching with the HE400i.  Note that the differences between the balanced and SE output might be different for different headphones but for the HD800, HE560 and T1 that I tried on the Jot it was just too bright and made all 3 a bit harsh in the highs so any gains in bass, mids, sound stage or instrument separation, etc is moot since the highs were harsh to me.


----------



## Panimation

Mine arrived today! Really happy with it


----------



## Tuneslover (Nov 1, 2017)

DJ The Rocket said:


> Is this possibly a volume vs. gain thing? More gain = more volume, effectively, but that comes with problems such as raising the noise floor with the volume. And as you point out, gain cannot replace actual power!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bifrost Multibit > Jotunheim > HD650 (balanced) and HE500 (balanced).

On initial listen the amp sounded quite dark.  Also the soundscape sounded very left channel, right channel centric.  My initial impresseion was that the amp sounded very strange so I just left it on all day and night fed by a source in continuous play mode.  The next morning I gave a listen and the soundscape was noticeably more expansive with considerably more detail, almost a bit bright sounding compared to initial listening.  Over the next number of days the change wasn't  as starkly noticeable however the amp seemed to settle in nicely becoming cleaner more refined sounding.  When I push the volume up the headphones sound very clean and there is no harshness to the sound (unlike the Magni and Magni 2U I owned earler).  I can attest that the HD650's do indeed scale with improved amplification as they sound very good indeed with no hint of veil in their signature (once again, unlike my first Magni).

Call it what you want, burn-in, breaking-in period, settliing-in...whatever?  All that I can say is that there was a noticeable (and memorable) improvement in sound quality with this amp.


----------



## ScOgLiO (Nov 3, 2017)

mine arrived today and I'm happy for two reasons.
First, I noticed an improvement in the sound (namely, a wider soundstage and a tad more clarity) I get with my HD25 II, meaning it actually wasn't running at full potential with the integrated amp of my X-Fi HD. I just can't wait to hear what this little amp (man, it's seriously tiny!) is capable of, when I'll get my hands on some higher tier cans.
Secondly, I got lucky and did not have to pay custom charges! By the way, kudos to the fellas at Schiit for shipping super quickly! At the end of the day, I got the amp in just 2 days (Cali to the Netherlands!) and even saved a few €s compared to what I would have paid had I decided to wait for the European sellers to get new stock.

Now I'll enjoy my rig and plan a headphones update to join the big boys and squeeze some real juice out of the Magni


----------



## mmmadog

After listening some I must say this Schiit  really does sound good on my 600ohm dt880. At first I thought it was a little bright but I think its just brighter than what I was use to and the 880's are know to be somewhat bright. Low sub bass and bass in general has some good slam and really surprising when you look over and this little amp that could fit in your front pocket is sounding so good. I do feel like the mid range can get a little congested when there is alot going on in a song but other than that I think Schiit has a winner in the Magni 3


----------



## sennsay

Tuneslover said:


> Bifrost Multibit > Jotunheim > HD650 (balanced) and HE500 (balanced).
> 
> On initial listen the amp sounded quite dark.  Also the soundscape sounded very left channel, right channel centric.  My initial impresseion was that the amp sounded very strange so I just left it on all day and night fed by a source in continuous play mode.  The next morning I gave a listen and the soundscape was noticeably more expansive with considerably more detail, almost a bit bright sounding compared to initial listening.  Over the next number of days the change wasn't  as starkly noticeable however the amp seemed to settle in nicely becoming cleaner more refined sounding.  When I push the volume up the headphones sound very clean and there is no harshness to the sound (unlike the Magni and Magni 2U I owned earler).  I can attest that the HD650's do indeed scale with improved amplification as they sound very good indeed with no hint of veil in their signature (once again, unlike my first Magni).
> 
> Call it what you want, burn-in, breaking-in period, settliing-in...whatever?  All that I can say is that there was a noticeable (and memorable) improvement in sound quality with this amp.


Agreed. My own experience was almost identical. I'm just getting on and enjoying it now.


----------



## niknik

ScOgLiO said:


> mine arrived today and I'm happy for two reasons.
> First, I noticed an improvement in the sound (namely, a wider soundstage and a tad more clarity) I get with my HD25 II, meaning it actually wasn't running at full potential with the integrated amp of my X-Fi HD. I just can't wait to hear what this little amp (man, it's seriously tiny!) is capable of, when I'll get my hands on some higher tier cans.
> Secondly, I got lucky and did not have to pay custom charges! By the way, kudos to the fellas at Schiit for shipping super quickly! At the end of the day, I got the amp in just 2 days (Cali to the Netherlands!) and even saved a few €s compared to what I would have paid had I decided to wait for the European sellers to get new stock.
> 
> Now I'll enjoy my rig and plan a headphones update to join the big boys and squeeze some real juice out of the Magni



So you saved money on ordering from overseas, huh? What about import taxes? Was just seeing they don't have it on the EU site.. (I'm in Scandinavia).


----------



## ScOgLiO

niknik said:


> So you saved money on ordering from overseas, huh? What about import taxes? Was just seeing they don't have it on the EU site.. (I'm in Scandinavia).



Yep, exactly. I also checked beforehand on their EU website, on Schiit-Europe.com and on a UK-based website whose name I forgot...no Magni 3 on sale at the moment, all of them out of stock!
Anyway, I would have spent €150 to buy it and the PYST RCA cable from Schiit-Europe.com, I ended up spending the equivalent of roughly €145 (a bit less than that) buying it from Schiit with the fast FedEx shipping.

The point is, European resellers already factor in their prices custom charges (given they import from the US) and then some. I understand that, because they're in for making a profit, but if you get lucky like me (i.e. not paying custom charges) you end up saving money buying directly from the US!

Clearly, a big chunk of the final price comes from the outrageously expensive shipping (about $44, which is A LOT given the price of the amp...) so us Europeans are clearly bound to get less of a deal out of buying Schiit products. Of course, for the American fellas an amp like the M3 is a no-brainer. But I think that, even considering shipping and custom charges (if you are forced to pay them, as it is most likely), this little amp is still a great value for price item.

As we can read in this thread, it is absolutely great with most headphones, even hard-to-drive ones, and I bet it might be the end game for a lot of people. So, probably worth the money anyway, even if we don't get the incredible awesome price people from the US get.

My 2 cents


----------



## vampirehunterd (Nov 2, 2017)

mmmadog said:


> After listening some I must say this Schiit  really does sound good on my 600ohm dt880. At first I thought it was a little bright but I think its just brighter than what I was use to and the 880's are know to be somewhat bright. Low sub bass and bass in general has some good slam and really surprising when you look over and this little amp that could fit in your front pocket is sounding so good. I do feel like the mid range can get a little congested when there is alot going on in a song but other than that I think Schiit has a winner in the Magni 3



Totally agree.  Similar setup except the 250 ohm DT880s and I'm really enjoying the sound for my office setup.  Limited desk real estate makes a Schiit stack ideal for quality sound with a small footprint.  I'm glad Schiit makes products like this for those of us with limited expendable income.


----------



## Jimster480

Tuneslover said:


> Bifrost Multibit > Jotunheim > HD650 (balanced) and HE500 (balanced).
> 
> On initial listen the amp sounded quite dark.  Also the soundscape sounded very left channel, right channel centric.  My initial impresseion was that the amp sounded very strange so I just left it on all day and night fed by a source in continuous play mode.  The next morning I gave a listen and the soundscape was noticeably more expansive with considerably more detail, almost a bit bright sounding compared to initial listening.  Over the next number of days the change wasn't  as starkly noticeable however the amp seemed to settle in nicely becoming cleaner more refined sounding.  When I push the volume up the headphones sound very clean and there is no harshness to the sound (unlike the Magni and Magni 2U I owned earler).  I can attest that the HD650's do indeed scale with improved amplification as they sound very good indeed with no hint of veil in their signature (once again, unlike my first Magni).
> 
> Call it what you want, burn-in, breaking-in period, settliing-in...whatever?  All that I can say is that there was a noticeable (and memorable) improvement in sound quality with this amp.


Have you left it on since you got it?
If you turn it off for a while and then turn it back on, how does it sound?


----------



## yangian

Which drive HD600 better, Magni 3 or Vali 2? Thanks


----------



## Tuneslover

Jimster480 said:


> Have you left it on since you got it?
> If you turn it off for a while and then turn it back on, how does it sound?



I only leave the Jot on while listening to it, otherwise it stays off.  The Bimby stays on all the time though.


----------



## Jimster480

Tuneslover said:


> I only leave the Jot on while listening to it, otherwise it stays off.  The Bimby stays on all the time though.


I thought you were referring to the Magni3?


----------



## Astral Abyss

The best way to determine if a new upgrade is really as good or bad as you originally surmise is to listen to it for a week or so without switching back and forth.  Then, after you've gotten used to the new "flavor", go back and switch in the old component.  I've often found that a change I thought was subtle, or even a downgrade, turns out to sound way better than I thought my old setup did after getting accustomed to the sound over weeks/months/years.  It really depends on your experience, all the components in a chain working (or failing to work) together, and your ears and brain adjusting to the sound.  

There's also that new gear honeymoon phase that wears off after a week or two.  

I think the Magni 3 is a wonderful amp, especially for the 99 bucks it costs  If you find you have a spot in the frequency spectrum that needs a little attention, pair it with a dash of digital EQ (or a Loki if that's the way you swing).  You'll find it does a lot of things right.


----------



## MixMasterMan (Nov 3, 2017)

I'm currently awaiting (wishful thinking!) a reply regarding a comparison of the magni 3 with a qh4 on this thread.


----------



## kendosperling

yangian said:


> Which drive HD600 better, Magni 3 or Vali 2? Thanks


I own both amps and like the Magni 3 with HD600 better. There is a little more bassslam but apart from that both are great matching imo.


----------



## yangian

kendosperling said:


> I own both amps and like the Magni 3 with HD600 better. There is a little more bassslam but apart from that both are great matching imo.



Thank you!


----------



## Panimation

Hey guys, just checking if you would normally have this on all the time? I'm finding it goes to the warm side after a few hours use (I'm the kind of person who usually have the pc on 24/7). Normally, I have my speakers connected to it but I have reverted back to my pc and use my stack just for music for the time being.


----------



## yangian

kendosperling said:


> I own both amps and like the Magni 3 with HD600 better. There is a little more bassslam but apart from that both are great matching imo.



Oh, one more question, how about soundstage? Which one is larger or very similar?


----------



## trellus (Nov 3, 2017)

MixMasterMan said:


> I'm currently awaiting (wishful thinking!) a reply regarding a comparison of the magni 3 with a qh4 on this thread.



I have these both, but except for the first day when I first received the QH4, they have not been in the same place -- I left my Magni 3 up here at work where I use it and I'm very happy with it, and I took my Samson QH4 home where I use it and I'm very happy with _it _as well.

I really couldn't tell _any difference_ _at all_ between them as far as sound quality on the one day I did have them in the same location.  Maybe my ears are just not discerning enough, or maybe both amps just do a great job at doing what I perceive is their only function, to amplify the signal. 

The only difference I could discern is that the QH4 could get louder than the Magni 3 -- but both got _far_ louder than I could stand to listen to on my HE-500 and T20RP MK3 -- when I got past a certain point, I took them off my ears before increasing the volume, they were so loud.  The QH4 just got louder than the Magni 3, but I didn't measure anything, it was just by ear.

As far as looks, well, no contest there, the QH4 looks goofy with the bright green accents and the cheap plastic top, and the Magni 3 looks magnificent. 

I don't believe I can offer you any more insight other than that.


----------



## kendosperling

yangian said:


> Oh, one more question, how about soundstage? Which one is larger or very similar?


The soundstage is also very much alike. If i remember correctly the magni 3 is a tad wider.


----------



## yangian

kendosperling said:


> The soundstage is also very much alike. If i remember correctly the magni 3 is a tad wider.



Oh, that's great! thanks!


----------



## MixMasterMan

trellus said:


> I have these both, but except for the first day when I first received the QH4, they have not been in the same place -- I left my Magni 3 up here at work where I use it and I'm very happy with it, and I took my Samson QH4 home where I use it and I'm very happy with _it _as well.
> 
> I really couldn't tell _any difference_ _at all_ between them as far as sound quality on the one day I did have them in the same location.  Maybe my ears are just not discerning enough, or maybe both amps just do a great job at doing what I perceive is their only function, to amplify the signal.
> 
> ...



Ahhh! The reply! Ive been waiting with baited breath! Lol  - I appreciate your response. Thanks you!


----------



## AxelCloris

Some of the recent discussion was either cleaned up, removed or relocated. We appreciate everyone's help in keeping the threads within the posting guidelines. Thanks all.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

yangian said:


> Which drive HD600 better, Magni 3 or Vali 2? Thanks



Both will drive the HD600 (along with almost any dynamic headphones) just fine. It's not about which can drive them well, but which sound signature you prefer. The Magni 3 is pretty much transparent, and I prefer the dynamics of an SS amp. But plenty of people love their Vali 2 so if you prefer tubes I'm sure that's a good choice too.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

My Magni 3 impressions after two weeks with it: 

My first setup is a Modi Multibit -> Magni 3 -> HE500, Alpha Prime, Sennheiser MX985, iSine20, or RE272, so I'm using it for some very power hungry planars, as well as really sensitive 16 ohm earphones, and the Magni 3 sounds equally good with either, as expected. 

It's probably the most transparent amp I've owned (the Fiio e11 is also transparent, but it's nowhere near the quality of the Magni 3, which is ultimately cleaner and more resolving. You need really revealing cans to tell though). The Magni 3 has plenty of power & headroom for anything I own at any volume I'm willing to try. It sounds just as good on low volume as it does turned up; the bass doesn't go away at lower levels. 

I really like the volume control: the knob is solid and has just the right amount of resistance, and the way Schiit mapped how the amp responds to changes on the volume knob is perfect for me. I can switch between different headphones, and get the volume nearly matched without thinking about it, before I even plug the new ones in. 

My second setup goes Modi Multibit -> Magni 3 preamp outs -> Stax SRM-727A -> Lambda Pros. I haven't been able to compare this setup to plugging the Modi into the Stax directly, but this might be a good test to see whether the Magni 3 has a "sound" or not, but I'd guess not. 

What I *can* say is that it sounds great. I've found that at 100% volume on low gain, the Magni 3 spits out a line level signal, which is nice. I've tried it on high gain too, and I *think* it may sound even better that way. But until I'm certain the Stax can handle that kind of voltage I'm not willing to try it for very long. 

Using the Magni 3 preamp outs for this purpose has made it easier than ever for me to switch from one headphone to another.


----------



## protocol (Nov 3, 2017)

Couple of questions for those with more knowledge than me.

Is the Magni 3 the one to go for over the Vali 2? As the Vali 2 is £55 (71$) more. I currently have a Vali 1 so either will be a big upgrade I'd of thought.

I'm wanting to be able to switch between headphones and speakers and was looking at Magni 3 with a Modi 2 Uber. From what I understand I'd be able to switch between the two by either unplugging my headphones to play via speakers, or plug headphone in to play via headphones. Correct? This would require powered speakers but ideally I want passive speakers as they're cheaper and I'm running out of power sockets! Is there anyway of having the Schiit stack with passive speakers?


----------



## yangian

DJ The Rocket said:


> Both will drive the HD600 (along with almost any dynamic headphones) just fine. It's not about which can drive them well, but which sound signature you prefer. The Magni 3 is pretty much transparent, and I prefer the dynamics of an SS amp. But plenty of people love their Vali 2 so if you prefer tubes I'm sure that's a good choice too.



Thank you! I have two tube amplifiers for HD600. I also have a SS amplifier from Taobao, which has good sound when pairing with 600, but obviously smaller soundstage than my tube amplifiers. I want to try a better SS amplifier. Just curious about Magni 3's ability.


----------



## niknik

Anyone owning a Topping NX2 or NX2s and could compare?  (Using NX2 or NX2s amp only).


----------



## joe

Hey guys, I just cleaned up a few off-topic posts. Let's stay on the Magni 3, gents.


----------



## cyclops214 (Nov 5, 2017)

If you have truly sensitive IEM'S Like the se846, You may have Audio Rattle Like I do I ordered the *iFi Audio Ear Buddy It will be arriving on Sunday Hopefully that will fix My Hissing problem With this amp. I am currently using my dragonfly read In the meantime.*


----------



## cyclops214 (Nov 5, 2017)

The ifi audio ear buddy Came in today But it only Reduces the noise slightly So I cannot use this amp With my se846 Which really sucks.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Nov 5, 2017)

cyclops214 said:


> The ifi audio ear buddy Came in today But it only Reduces the noise slightly So I cannot use this amp With my se846 Which really sucks.



What hissing problem? This doesn't make sense because you should be able to use those Shures no problem. 

The Magni 3 output impedance is like a third of an ohm. Unless your shures are 2 ohms themselves I can't imagine what the problem is. Are you certain the hiss isn't on your recording? What other sensitive IEMs have you tried? Did they do the same?

You should try a wire with a resistor in it, like the P to S converter from Etymotic. I would have tried that before whatever that ifi thing is. If that doesn't fix it, and its not the recording, then you absolutely have faulty equipment somewhere along the chain. 

I've used several 16 ohm IEMs with Magni 3 without even a hint of hiss


----------



## Jimster480

DJ The Rocket said:


> What hissing problem? This doesn't make sense because you should be able to use those Shures no problem.
> 
> The Magni 3 output impedance is like a third of an ohm. Unless your shures are 2 ohms themselves I can't imagine what the problem is. Are you certain the hiss isn't on your recording? What other sensitive IEMs have you tried? Did they do the same?
> 
> ...



Hiss doesn't have to do with output impedance FYI. It has to do with noise in the system and overall gain.


----------



## cyclops214 (Nov 5, 2017)

I was not having The noise In the se846 With any other amp So I turned off The eitr, dac and amp then back on And the noise went away Can't explain it Must Have been some kind of feedback Or something like it. 

I feel pretty stupid Not power cycling everything first.


----------



## Merkurio

Anyone use the Magni 3 connected direct to the PC motherboard?

I like how the ALC1220 audio codec sounds on my PC, but the amplifier section is somewhat weak with my KNS-8400.


----------



## MonoOno (Nov 6, 2017)

Merkurio said:


> *Anyone use the Magni 3 connected direct to the PC motherboard?*
> 
> I like how the ALC1220 audio codec sounds on my PC, but the amplifier section is somewhat weak with my KNS-8400.


Yes, but with the ALC1150 codec, yours is a step up so it might be better. It is okay, but cant say I'm impressed coming from a ODAC which in itself was not the best but the drop in quality on my motherboard is huge though they touted it as having one of the best DACs you can get on a motherboard. To my ears, clarity and instrument separation took a nose dive. Cant wait have a dedicated DAC again.


----------



## Merkurio

MonoOno said:


> Yes, but with the ALC1150 codec, yours is a step up so it might be better. It is okay, but cant say I'm impressed coming from a ODAC which in itself was not the best but the drop in quality on my motherboard is huge though they touted it as having one of the best DACs you can get on a motherboard. To my ears, clarity and instrument separation took a nose dive. Cant wait have a dedicated DAC again.



Thanks for the answer!

I would consider a DAC in the future too (maybe a Modi 2 Uber), but my main concern now is the low volume in some FLAC files.

It's good to see an opinion from someone that's actually using the integrated motherboard solution.


----------



## MonoOno (Nov 6, 2017)

Yeah, it sounds good and your ALC1220 should be better. You can definitely get by on it. My ODAC was better but I do not really miss it. Was hoping to also get Uber or even multibit to go along with the Magni 3 but holding out in hopes a Modi 3 is announced soon.

Also very interested to hear that ALC1220. Motherboard audio has come a long way and that is currently the best you can get.


----------



## DavidA

Merkurio said:


> Anyone use the Magni 3 connected direct to the PC motherboard?
> 
> I like how the ALC1220 audio codec sounds on my PC, but the amplifier section is somewhat weak with my KNS-8400.


Didn't have the Magni3 back then but used my Asgard2 with the line out of Asus ROG mobo back a few years ago, can't remember the model but it was an LGA-1150 version.  I also used a Asus STX card to drive my HD700 when I was playing games more often but it was also able to drive my HD650 to a decent level but it like the HD650 paired with a Bifrost Uber + BH Crack much better.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

UPDATE: I spent some time A/Bing tonight: I tried running my DAC (Momby) either directly into the back of my Stax 727A, or into the Magni 3, then to the Stax via the preamp outs (with the Magni set to 100% volume and low gain). Headphones are Stax Lambda Pros, for music I've been going through some of the best sounding 320 kbps mp3s in my collection. I listened only to EDM. 

I am pleased to report that I can detect NO DIFFERENCE in sound quality, regardless of whether I used the Magni or bypassed it. It effects the signal not at all. 

Great work Schiit! This is my first Schiit amp, and I couldn't be happier with it. If the Vidar is similarly good, I might not even demo other amps!


----------



## mmmadog

Played the stack some more last nite. I have it hooked to a windows 7 laptop and tweaked the settings turning the gain all the way up and I had forgot there is a little tiny switch on the back of the Modi for higher quality sound and you have to install a driver which I did. Much better. All of the brightness and grain went away and it is finally sounding smooth but with some impact. Does almost make music sound like you are listening live.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

mmmadog said:


> there is a little tiny switch on the back of the Modi for higher quality sound



I think you mean the switch on the Magni? Congrats on discovering one of the biggest causes of subjective bias in audio. 

That switch does not affect the sound quality, BTW. That's the high/low gain switch. You perceived that it sounded better after you flipped to high gain because it was louder: humans perceive a LOUDER signal as being CLEANER, even though the sound quality is the exact same either way. 

This is the reason volume matching is so important, when comparing gears. If one is even 1dB louder than the other, it's going to sound better to you, even though it isn't better. Speaker salesmen know this and exploit it to get customers to buy the more expensive stuff, they just play it slightly louder on your demo to trick you


----------



## mmmadog

Dude I'm pretty sure I know what a gain switch is. This switch is on the modi 2 like I previously said.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Dude, I don't know you, or your level of knowledge, and it's a common mistake to make. 

What switch is on the Modi? Mine doesn't have a switch. Why would anyone ever use the lower quality setting in the first place?


----------



## kukkurovaca

DJ The Rocket said:


> I think you mean the switch on the Magni? Congrats on discovering one of the biggest causes of subjective bias in audio.
> 
> That switch does not affect the sound quality, BTW. That's the high/low gain switch. You perceived that it sounded better after you flipped to high gain because it was louder: humans perceive a LOUDER signal as being CLEANER, even though the sound quality is the exact same either way.
> 
> This is the reason volume matching is so important, when comparing gears. If one is even 1dB louder than the other, it's going to sound better to you, even though it isn't better. Speaker salesmen know this and exploit it to get customers to buy the more expensive stuff, they just play it slightly louder on your demo to trick you



I think they mean the e/s switch.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

kukkurovaca said:


> I think they mean the e/s switch.



Yep that's definitely not present on my Multibit. What does it do, exactly, and again, why would anyone use the lower quality setting for any reason ever?


----------



## -ImageX (Nov 7, 2017)

DJ The Rocket said:


> Yep that's definitely not present on my Multibit. What does it do, exactly, and again, why would anyone use the lower quality setting for any reason ever?



I’m pretty sure the S is for Standard and the E is for Expert.... as in install. Expert install requires drivers to be installed on PC and allows for higher quality files to be played. So, they would choose “lower quality” if they didn’t want to use the option of installing drivers.


----------



## swmtnbiker

-ImageX said:


> I’m pretty sure the S is for Standard and the E is for Expert.... as in install. Expert install requires drivers to be installed on PC and allows for higher quality files to be played. So, they would choose “lower quality” if they didn’t want the option of installing drivers.



The "E" setting enables 24/192 playback, which requires a driver install on Windows machines.


----------



## kukkurovaca

DJ The Rocket said:


> Yep that's definitely not present on my Multibit. What does it do, exactly, and again, why would anyone use the lower quality setting for any reason ever?



If your library is all CD rips or MP3s, why would you choose to install to drivers you didn't have to? : )


----------



## SomeTechNoob

fyi If you are running the Win10 creator's update from last year, you theoretically do not need the driver as USB Audio Class 2 drivers should come packaged with windows now.


----------



## rids57

Yep, Windows 10 automatically installed a driver for my Mimby as soon as I plugged it in


----------



## Baldr (Nov 7, 2017)

The real reason three or so years ago goes like this:

At that time, MACs, Linux, and most Android machines did not require drivers for 192KHz (Expert) mode.  Windows, up until the recent Creator's update, did require drivers for Expert (AKA UAC2) mode, which could be, as any Windoze driver, finicky to install.  Since Modi2 was a product aimed at entry level users who were less likely to twiddle with their computers, we sent the units out at 96KHz and below (Standard) mode.

Since Microsoft with their Creator's update now has finally brought their Digital audio output up to the level of most phones, it really is time to correct the default ship mode of all Modi DACs to Expert, which will happen effective now.  However, since there are thousands of Modi DACs in the field, it may be necessary to verify that the switch is set to Expert.


----------



## DarwinOSX

The Magni 3 is a no brainer for my HD 650 but do I want the standard Modi or the Modi multi-bit?  
How much difference will I hear?  
I'm new to the HD 650 and have been using Grado PS500e's.


----------



## hikaru12

So I  just got my Mimby in today and paired with the Magni 3 it definitely sounds warm and smooth even on V shaped headphones like my V-Modas. Definitely a pleasing sound and not harsh at all.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

hikaru12 said:


> So I  just got my Mimby in today and paired with the Magni 3 it definitely sounds warm and smooth even on V shaped headphones like my V-Modas. Definitely a pleasing sound and not harsh at all.



Nice, the Momby/Magni stack is high quality, I use the same one. You'll be able to upgrade to significantly better headphones (if you so desire) and not have to worry about your source gear for a long time. 

The M100s are nice, but they aren't close to being able to transmit all of that quality to your ears. Although your headphones are probably your system's "weakest link," that's still a pretty respectable "weak kink"


----------



## DavidA

DarwinOSX said:


> The Magni 3 is a no brainer for my HD 650 but do I want the standard Modi or the Modi multi-bit?
> How much difference will I hear?
> I'm new to the HD 650 and have been using Grado PS500e's.


You might hear a big difference, a little difference, or none at all.  While I don't have a Mimby I have a Modi2uber and Bimby and to me there is a noticeable difference but most of my friends can't hear any difference so that's why I say you may or may not hear any difference.  Another factor in noticing differences is the headphone used, genre of music choice, how loud you listen at and your own hearing ability.

Having had a PS500e for a short time and the HD650 these are two very different sounding headphones but I think make great complimentary headphones.


----------



## DarwinOSX

Thanks. Interesting. The Grados get uncomfortable after awhile because of the ear pads plus I think I want a warmer sound hence the 650’s.


----------



## DavidA

DarwinOSX said:


> Thanks. Interesting. The Grados get uncomfortable after awhile because of the ear pads plus I think I want a warmer sound hence the 650’s.


Change the stock OEM L-pad to generic G-pads ($4-6 from ebay) if you want comfort, its the only pad that I can use for more than 6-8 hours and as a bonus they will bump the bass a few dB while slightly reducing the highs since the driver will be further from your ears.


----------



## ofilippov (Nov 9, 2017)

DavidA said:


> You might hear a big difference, a little difference, or none at all.  While I don't have a Mimby I have a Modi2uber and Bimby and to me there is a noticeable difference but most of my friends can't hear any difference so that's why I say you may or may not hear any difference.  Another factor in noticing differences is the headphone used, genre of music choice, how loud you listen at and your own hearing ability.
> 
> Having had a PS500e for a short time and the HD650 these are two very different sounding headphones but I think make great complimentary headphones.



Well, I had the same question you were answering. I got Magni 3 lately. And after a lot of reading, I was totally sure that Modi Multibit will make a huge sound difference to me comparing to Arcam rPac, which I'm currently using as a DAC. And, to my surprise, I've heard only slitest hints of a difference. So little difference that I decided to keep $300 for now. I was more like feeling different than hearing the difference.

I'm used to Senns HD598 (have them for a long while) and about a week of listening to Magni 3. Still waiting for HD6XX to come. So I used both my 598s, and 650s that I borrowed from my local distributor, where I was considering buying Mimby. I shared my thoughts with the guys in the shop. They suggested that I'll need to have a better amp to hear the difference in DACs. Fortunately they've had a lot of stuff to listen to so I decided to give it a try.

So I tried different combinations with Jotunheim for a while. And I changed the headphones to Fostex TX-610 that give slightly more detail then HD650. And I didn't hear much difference in sound of Jot Single Ended/MMB vs Magni 3/MMB either. Just slight increase in "boom-boom" and different treble that Jot has. Still wondering which sound to consider better. I liked Jot better first but now I have some doubts.

The situation changed when I tried balanced output of the Jot. Comparing to Magni 3 the difference was more apparent. Like stereo imaging changed and the scene changed. Take my words with a grain of salt here, because I don't have enough experience with any set-up except of my rPAC>Magni 3>598s though. But I enjoyed balanced Jot much more than Magni 3 for some reason. At this point I already gave up volume matching with the pink noise. Just listened at comforable listening levels, trying to match them by ear. I tried to make Modi 3 louder, however. Still couldn't tell much difference with DACs.

And now I have more questions then answers. It seems that I'm keeping Magni 3 for now because I still enjoy it at home even with Arcam rPAC as a DAC. But what buggying me most is that I can't substantially hear the difference between DACs (rPAC, Mimby, Bifrost 4490, Gumby through RCAs). I just hear (or, more likely, think I do) a hint of smoothness from Schiit dacs. It's like paying tonns of money for the milligramm difference. Any ideas on how to evaluate this, guys?


----------



## Jimster480

ofilippov said:


> Well, I had the same question you were answering. I got Magni 3 lately. And after a lot of reading, I was totally sure that Modi Multibit will make a huge sound difference to me comparing to Arcam rPac, which I'm currently using as a DAC. And, to my surprise, I've heard only slitest hints of a difference. So little difference that I decided to keep $300 for now. I was more like a feeling different than hearing the difference.
> 
> I'm used to Senns HD598 (have them for a long while) and about a week of listening to Magni 3. Still waiting for HD6XX to come. So I used both my 598s, and 650s that I borrowed from my local distributor, where I was considering buying Mimby. I shared my thoughts with the guys in the shop. They suggested that I'll need to have a better amp. Fortunately they've had a lot of stuff to listen to so I decided to give it a try.
> 
> ...


Your experiences are pretty much in line with the world of DACs.
Once you have a good one, the differences to other ones are pretty minute.
You also need better headphones to take advantage of better DAC's.
My Mrspeakers Aeon definitely opens up a new world of detail compared to my old headphones and even my 1More Quad drivers.
Part of it is also you training your ears to hear details better.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Nov 9, 2017)

I love that you tried to play the Magni louder as an attempt to account for that particular bias! That isn't really a scientifically valid way to do that, but it's a clever idea and it does seem like it probably should help  

One popular approach is to pick one DAC and listen to it exclusively for a week or two, then switch.

I did this to pick between a GOV2+ and an ODAC/e11 stack. They sounded very similar when I A/B'ed them, but after a week with the stack, going back to the GO was such a step backwards, I could tell easily then. I tried the other way after that; after getting used to the GO (and really enjoying it honestly), switching to the stack was like a breath of fresh air. After that, I actually could A/B them and hear the differences easily.


----------



## ofilippov

Thanks @DJ The Rocket ! It makes some sense to me. I've also heard that DAC differences can be better heard on a system with speakers. So, I'll probably make another try, like you suggested, after buying proper speakers.

Also wanted to say that I immediately heard the difference between Gumby>Mjolnir 2 SE>HD650 and Bifrost 4490>Magni>HD650. It was like "****" I want this! But I guess HD650s not worth it. But Gumby with speakers...will see. Sorry for a bit of offtop.

And now I'm starting to realize where "audio enthusiast" term is coming from


----------



## yangian

ofilippov said:


> Well, I had the same question you were answering. I got Magni 3 lately. And after a lot of reading, I was totally sure that Modi Multibit will make a huge sound difference to me comparing to Arcam rPac, which I'm currently using as a DAC. And, to my surprise, I've heard only slitest hints of a difference. So little difference that I decided to keep $300 for now. I was more like feeling different than hearing the difference.
> 
> I'm used to Senns HD598 (have them for a long while) and about a week of listening to Magni 3. Still waiting for HD6XX to come. So I used both my 598s, and 650s that I borrowed from my local distributor, where I was considering buying Mimby. I shared my thoughts with the guys in the shop. They suggested that I'll need to have a better amp to hear the difference in DACs. Fortunately they've had a lot of stuff to listen to so I decided to give it a try.
> 
> ...



Why do you think Modi Multibit will make a huge sound difference comparing to Arcam rPac while they have the same price range?


----------



## ofilippov

@yangian , that's another bright idea. But I also tried Magni 3 with Bifrost and for a minute with Gumby. I can understand Bifrost, but Gumby... maybe I didn't spend enough time with it, or it's where Magni holds it back. Can't tell, wasn't serious about this combo. You are right, the general idea is the more money you put the better result you get. But it's like with bicycles: at some point you are paying hundreds of bucks for getting rid of extra 10 gramm of weight (and not thinking of extra 2 kg at your belly ). Didn't figure out where this point is for audio though.


----------



## yangian

ofilippov said:


> @yangian , that's another bright idea. But I also tried Magni 3 with Bifrost and for a minute with Gumby. I can understand Bifrost, but Gumby... maybe I didn't spend enough time with it, or it's where Magni holds it back. Can't tell, wasn't serious about this combo. You are right, the general idea is the more money you put the better result you get. But it's like with bicycles: at some point you are paying hundreds of bucks for getting rid of extra 10 gramm of weight (and not thinking of extra 2 kg at your belly ). Didn't figure out where this point is for audio though.



Exactly. The more so called highend, the less cost-effedtive, especially for DACs. For audio gears, the relevance of SQ is increasing from back to front. Headphones is the first important gear for SQ. Then amplifiers, then DACs. But the most important is the music files.


----------



## FrivolsListener

ofilippov said:


> Well, I had the same question you were answering. I got Magni 3 lately. And after a lot of reading, I was totally sure that Modi Multibit will make a huge sound difference to me comparing to Arcam rPac, which I'm currently using as a DAC. And, to my surprise, I've heard only slitest hints of a difference. So little difference that I decided to keep $300 for now. I was more like feeling different than hearing the difference.
> 
> I'm used to Senns HD598 (have them for a long while) and about a week of listening to Magni 3. Still waiting for HD6XX to come. So I used both my 598s, and 650s that I borrowed from my local distributor, where I was considering buying Mimby. I shared my thoughts with the guys in the shop. They suggested that I'll need to have a better amp to hear the difference in DACs. Fortunately they've had a lot of stuff to listen to so I decided to give it a try.
> 
> ...



I wish that I could legally share the tracks I've found where the difference jumped out and threatened to beat me over the head with a clue bat.  They are very specific tracks on very specific releases of certain albums.   I haven't yet put in the time to figure out how to losslessly cut out a 30 second segment from one of those songs on linux.


----------



## FrivolsListener

Since this is the Magni 3 thread, I should probably state my opinion on it, now that I've listened to it.

My prior amp was a Magni (no suffix) and before that a "Brand X" Chinese made tube amp.  Going from Brand X to Magni was a quantum leap.  Non-critical listening in noisy environments improved substantially with the Magni.

So I got the Magni 3.  Upstream is a Gungnir Multibit; downstream is HD-800 headphones.  My laptop, normally the source of music to the Gumby, decided to die the day that the Magni 3 arrived, so my first tests were with Youtube videos that were better than most, fed from a Chromebook.  With them, I noticed no differences.

Once the laptop was up and running again, I played some of the tracks that stand out.  Magni 3 was a real improvement, and, just as I did with Gumby, I'm relearning things about recordings I've had for a while.

At $99, the Magni 3 is a giant killer.  You really can't go wrong with it.


----------



## hikaru12 (Nov 9, 2017)

DJ The Rocket said:


> Nice, the Momby/Magni stack is high quality, I use the same one. You'll be able to upgrade to significantly better headphones (if you so desire) and not have to worry about your source gear for a long time.
> 
> The M100s are nice, but they aren't close to being able to transmit all of that quality to your ears. Although your headphones are probably your system's "weakest link," that's still a pretty respectable "weak kink"



Yea I plan on getting some HD700's soon myself. I currently have the 400i's atm. I just tried ithe Moda's since I'd like to see if the warm sound of the Mimby/Modi 3 combo would take out some of the V shape of these cans while still making them fun to listen to.


----------



## DavidA

ofilippov said:


> Well, I had the same question you were answering. I got Magni 3 lately. And after a lot of reading, I was totally sure that Modi Multibit will make a huge sound difference to me comparing to Arcam rPac, which I'm currently using as a DAC. And, to my surprise, I've heard only slitest hints of a difference. So little difference that I decided to keep $300 for now. I was more like feeling different than hearing the difference.
> 
> I'm used to Senns HD598 (have them for a long while) and about a week of listening to Magni 3. Still waiting for HD6XX to come. So I used both my 598s, and 650s that I borrowed from my local distributor, where I was considering buying Mimby. I shared my thoughts with the guys in the shop. They suggested that I'll need to have a better amp to hear the difference in DACs. Fortunately they've had a lot of stuff to listen to so I decided to give it a try.
> 
> ...



I would not worry about not being able to hear much of a difference in DACs or amps, all that really matters is that you like the sound of your gear and if you like the cheaper gear better use the savings for more music, another headphone or wine.  The Magni3 is a great amp for the price and to me better than the Jot since the Jot is a bit too bright with some headphones for me while the Magni3 is a little warmer and pairs with more headphones IMO.  But if you are going to get the HD6XX the Jot balanced would be my choice over the Magni3 any day even at 4 times the cost.
Don't forget that what is "better" to me might not be to you since audio is a personal preference, very few right or wrong, better or worst most of the time.


----------



## UNOE

I already have SMSL M8.  You all think this will pair well with Magni 3?


----------



## Jimster480

UNOE said:


> I already have SMSL M8.  You all think this will pair well with Magni 3?


Yes, I tested the two and it sounds great


----------



## ofilippov

UNOE said:


> I already have SMSL M8.  You all think this will pair well with Magni 3?


Honestly, I think it will be enough. If you want further experiments, you could search for linear power supply from China for $50 on ebay. I've read several times that it improves sound from m8.


----------



## UNOE

For sure thanks


----------



## DJ The Rocket

UNOE said:


> I already have SMSL M8.  You all think this will pair well with Magni 3?



I feel the Magni 3 will pair well with ANY dac that sounds good to you


----------



## UNOE

sounds good


----------



## DJ The Rocket

So this morning my dad came over and saw the Magni/Momby stack on my desk looking all sleek and pretty and asked what it was. He couldn't stop laughing after I explained about Schiit xD


----------



## DavidA

DJ The Rocket said:


> So this morning my dad came over and saw the Magni/Momby stack on my desk looking all sleek and pretty and asked what it was. He couldn't stop laughing after I explained about Schiit xD


Is "Momby" the new nickname for the "Mimby"?


----------



## DJ The Rocket

DavidA said:


> Is "Momby" the new nickname for the "Mimby"?



It's the _correct_ name, AFAIC. It's a *Mo*di, not a *Mi*di! For the same reason that a Bimby isn't called a Bomby


----------



## DavidA

DJ The Rocket said:


> It's the _correct_ name, AFAIC. It's a *Mo*di, not a *Mi*di! For the same reason that a Bimby isn't called a Bomby


This is the first time I've seen the Modi MB called a "Momby" so I was curious to see if there was a post to say why it was changed from Mimby to Momby.


----------



## DJ The Rocket

I changed what *I* call it, you all can call it whatever you want. I think my way makes more sense, as far as these things ever actually make sense, but unfortunately I don't foresee my way catching on any time soon xD


----------



## treecloud

DavidA said:


> Is "Momby" the new nickname for the "Mimby"?


How can it be? "Daddy" nick named his baby Mimby! Show some Respect!


----------



## DavidA

treecloud said:


> How can it be? "Daddy" nick named his baby Mimby! Show some Respect!


I always called the Modi MB a Mimby and that is why I was curious when I saw the "Momby" name used, LOL,  If this upsets you I'm sorry but it was a question that has been answered by @DJ The Rocket


----------



## uoods

Anyone have a sense of whether these will be on sale for BF?


----------



## Jimster480

uoods said:


> Anyone have a sense of whether these will be on sale for BF?


Schiit doesn't have sales. It's part of their business model.


----------



## FrivolsListener

uoods said:


> Anyone have a sense of whether these will be on sale for BF?



Schiit doesn't do sales.  Everything is at the low price year round.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Yup.  To emphasize: http://www.schiit.com/about/about/on-deals


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut

Jimster480 said:


> Yes, I tested the two and it sounds great



@Jimster480 Since you have the Objective2, how does it compare to the Magni 3?


----------



## FrivolsListener

SomeTechNoob said:


> Yup.  To emphasize: http://www.schiit.com/about/about/on-deals



But they aren't above chiding you to spend time with your family instead of shopping on Black Friday.


----------



## Astral Abyss

FrivolsListener said:


> But they aren't above chiding you to spend time with your family instead of shopping on Black Friday.


Which is what you should be doing.  This crap where Black Friday starts at 5pm on Thanksgiving now shows how far we've fallen from the spirit of the holiday in the name of consumerism.


----------



## Jimster480

Astral Abyss said:


> Which is what you should be doing.  This crap where Black Friday starts at 5pm on Thanksgiving now shows how far we've fallen from the spirit of the holiday in the name of consumerism.


You are right about that, it sucks and destroys the holidays!


Lost Cosmonaut said:


> @Jimster480 Since you have the Objective2, how does it compare to the Magni 3?


Depends really on what headphones you have, for me I sold my Magni3 because it has WAY TOO MUCH power for my headphones.
I found the bass to be slightly lower and there to be a few mid-range peaks, but honestly I have to use it with the POT almost at the bottom (like 7-8 oclock) because all my headphones are low impedance.
So the volume would get to an ear-bleeding level by even 10 oclock. I tested it with an Oppo PM-2, Denon D7200, Denon AH-MM400, Panasonic RP-HD10, 1More Quad drivers, 1More Triple drivers, Yamaha YH-2 (vintage ortho).
Only the Yamaha @ 150 ohms could actually use any of the POT travel and it topped out around 1PM in regards to "tolerable volume".


----------



## BVTK

Here in Vietnam I got it on hand,its size is amazing compared to its compliments here,or at least to its wall wart which is possibly designed for body building 
Cant wait to test it!!!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

BVTK said:


> Here in Vietnam I got it on hand,its size is amazing compared to its compliments here,or at least to its wall wart which is possibly designed for body building
> Cant wait to test it!!!



Awesome! 

What type of headphones will you pair it with?


----------



## BVTK

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Awesome!
> 
> What type of headphones will you pair it with?



I am going with HD 600, and next month will go with HD 6XX from Massdrop.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

BVTK said:


> I am going with HD 600, and next month will go with HD 6XX from Massdrop.



It's a good pair with HD6XX but I still use loki+magni 3 to bring extra treble extension.


----------



## Tuneslover

Has anyone compared the sound of the Magni 3 to the Vali 2?  If so I would love to hear your thoughts.  Thanks.


----------



## RickB (Nov 13, 2017)

Tuneslover said:


> Has anyone compared the sound of the Magni 3 to the Vali 2?  If so I would love to hear your thoughts.  Thanks.



The Magni 3 and the Vali 2 are pretty similar. The main difference I hear is that the Magni is less forward in the upper mids. The treble is equally smooth on both. Soundstage is better on the Vali 2, but not by a whole lot. I have the impression that bass is tighter on the Magni 3, but since I haven't listened to my Vali 2 since I got the Magni, I'm going on memory.

The Magni is a great alternative to the Vali 2 if you don't want to mess around with tubes. It goes very well with the HD650 since it reduces the mid forwardness.


----------



## Tuneslover

RickB said:


> The Magni 3 and the Vali 2 are pretty similar. The main difference I hear is that the Magni is less forward in the upper mids. The treble is equally smooth on both. Soundstage is better on the Vali 2, but not by a whole lot. I have the impression that bass is tighter on the Magni 3, but since I haven't listened to my Vali 2 since I got the Magni, I'm going on memory.
> 
> The Magni is a great alternative to the Vali 2 if you don't want to mess around with tubes. It goes very well with the HD650 since it reduces the mid forwardness.



Thanks for the feedback.  I used to own the original Magni, which was replaced by the Magni 2U, which was replaced by the Vali 2.  I definitely prefer the warmer less harsh sound of the Vali 2 as compared to any Magni's I've owned.  From what I've read it appears that the shrill Magni sound may have been "corrected" with the Magni 3.  But, how much is the big question.  Based on your response I'm getting the impression that the Magni 3 and Vali 2 are quite similar sounding.

My biggest gripe with the Magni's I've owned in the past, as well as, my current Vali 2 is the loud popping sound that comes over my Audioengine A2's when I power on these amps.  Does this also happen with the Magni 3?  I guess I need to get into the habit of turning the volume dial down and off on the A2's to avoid that annoying racket.


----------



## RickB

Tuneslover said:


> My biggest gripe with the Magni's I've owned in the past, as well as, my current Vali 2 is the loud popping sound that comes over my Audioengine A2's when I power on these amps.  Does this also happen with the Magni 3?  I guess I need to get into the habit of turning the volume dial down and off on the A2's to avoid that annoying racket.



I also own A2s, but haven't tried them with the Magni. I would be surprised, though, if the protection circuit is any different than what's in the Vali 2. I would guess it still has the same pop.


----------



## Lost Cosmonaut

Jimster480 said:


> Depends really on what headphones you have, for me I sold my Magni3 because it has WAY TOO MUCH power for my headphones.
> I found the bass to be slightly lower and there to be a few mid-range peaks, but honestly I have to use it with the POT almost at the bottom (like 7-8 oclock) because all my headphones are low impedance.
> So the volume would get to an ear-bleeding level by even 10 oclock. I tested it with an Oppo PM-2, Denon D7200, Denon AH-MM400, Panasonic RP-HD10, 1More Quad drivers, 1More Triple drivers, Yamaha YH-2 (vintage ortho).
> Only the Yamaha @ 150 ohms could actually use any of the POT travel and it topped out around 1PM in regards to "tolerable volume".



Thank you, @Jimster480

And I'm glad to see that our messages weren't deleted or moved somewhere else this time.


----------



## HoneysPoohBear

Magni 2 Uber for $99 
OR
Magni 3 for $116

Which one should I buy to pair with my Modi 2 Uber?


----------



## kendosperling

magni 3


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

kendosperling said:


> magni 3



+1



HoneysPoohBear said:


> Magni 2 Uber for $99
> OR
> Magni 3 for $116
> 
> Which one should I buy to pair with my Modi 2 Uber?



magni 3


----------



## volikovvv (Nov 14, 2017)

Received my Magni 3 today, but my impressions are not so good as yours. Currently i have setup pc->wyrd->modi 2->magni2uber->DT 770 pro 80 and HD600, im sad to say but sound of magni 3 i can describe as downgrade compared to magni2U, yes magni 3 a little bit more transparent and a little different soundstage, but magni2u have more evolving and fuller sound, bass is more defined with 2U, treble sounds more natural, vocals are more livlier . Magni3 as for me have sterile sounding, some kind of synthetic maybe, not interesting to listen - at all. Maybe modi 2 dac is not so good for this amp, i don't know. Actually i didn't understand all that hype around that amplifier... volume knob feels much cheaper compared to magni2uber, its not about visual, it's about feeling when regulating it, i didn't expected so cheap feelings about that. I'm not disappointed, i think that 50$ less - is quite reasonable for this unit.

p.s. i decided to stay with Magni2U at this moment, and sell magni 3 in my country. Don't know in which side to think for the system upgrade... 

Little update: currently i listen to my xonar stx with dt 770 at home after work, and i found that sound of magni 3 brings schiit stack closer to xonar stx sound, but from that point of view and sound reproduction STX is better, but i don't prefer this sound, i find stx sounding... don't know how to describe this, too digital and harsh maybe... For gaming and cinema STX is ok, but not for music listening.


----------



## FrivolsListener

HoneysPoohBear said:


> Magni 2 Uber for $99
> OR
> Magni 3 for $116
> 
> Which one should I buy to pair with my Modi 2 Uber?



The magni 3.


----------



## volikovvv

FrivolsListener said:


> The magni 3.


Did you compare them at your setup?


----------



## FrivolsListener

volikovvv said:


> Did you compare them at your setup?



I stepped up from the original Magni to the Magni 3, so no.  My personal opinion on an amplifier is that it should have no color, no signature, no trait to its' sound, just be transparent.

With low quality recordings such as MP3s, HQ youtube videos, or MQAs, the two amplifiers are indistinguishable.  With high quality recordings, the Magni 3 shows detail I hadn't heard before.

(I'm extrapolating from the MQAs I demoed at CanJam/RMAF.  They did not impress me at all.  The others, I did direct A/B comparisons with, and not short ones.)


----------



## volikovvv (Nov 14, 2017)

FrivolsListener said:


> The magni 3.





FrivolsListener said:


> I stepped up from the original Magni to the Magni 3, so no.  My personal opinion on an amplifier is that it should have no color, no signature, no trait to its' sound, just be transparent.
> 
> With low quality recordings such as MP3s, HQ youtube videos, or MQAs, the two amplifiers are indistinguishable.  With high quality recordings, the Magni 3 shows detail I hadn't heard before.
> 
> (I'm extrapolating from the MQAs I demoed at CanJam/RMAF.  They did not impress me at all.  The others, I did direct A/B comparisons with, and not short ones.)


Ok i understand your point of view, thank you for reply, i have another point of view - truly transparent amplifiers is just nonexistent, is just like direct video translation directly to your brain - sci-fi.


----------



## FrivolsListener

volikovvv said:


> Ok i understand your point of view, thank you for reply, i have another point of view - truly transparent amplifiers is just nonexistent, is just like direct video translation directly to your brain - sci-fi.



Sure, but you strive for it.  I want my sound as unadorned as possible.  If it has a coloring, I don't want it.


----------



## volikovvv

FrivolsListener said:


> Sure, but you strive for it.  I want my sound as unadorned as possible.  If it has a coloring, I don't want it.


For sound without coloring, better to go with pro studio audio gear IMHO.


----------



## tamleo

volikovvv said:


> Received my Magni 3 today, but my impressions are not so good as yours. Currently i have setup pc->wyrd->modi 2->magni2uber->DT 770 pro 80 and HD600, im sad to say but sound of magni 3 i can describe as downgrade compared to magni2U, yes magni 3 a little bit more transparent and a little different soundstage, but magni2u have more evolving and fuller sound, bass is more defined with 2U, treble sounds more natural, vocals are more livlier . Magni3 as for me have sterile sounding, some kind of synthetic maybe, not interesting to listen - at all. Maybe modi 2 dac is not so good for this amp, i don't know. Actually i didn't understand all that hype around that amplifier... volume knob feels much cheaper compared to magni2uber, its not about visual, it's about feeling when regulating it, i didn't expected so cheap feelings about that. I'm not disappointed, i think that 50$ less - is quite reasonable for this unit.
> 
> p.s. i decided to stay with Magni2U at this moment, and sell magni 3 in my country. Don't know in which side to think for the system upgrade...
> 
> Little update: currently i listen to my xonar stx with dt 770 at home after work, and i found that sound of magni 3 brings schiit stack closer to xonar stx sound, but from that point of view and sound reproduction STX is better, but i don't prefer this sound, i find stx sounding... don't know how to describe this, too digital and harsh maybe... For gaming and cinema STX is ok, but not for music listening.


That is what I felt moving from Mjolnir to Magni2U hehe. Yeah the Magni2u sounds not as "transparently" as the Mjolnir but more natural and evolving. The most natural-sounding Schiit amps that I have heard are Asgard1 and Asgard2 then the Magni2/Magni2U. I think that is why class-A and class AB amps are so popular now. I dont say other topologies are not good but there must be  something to do with the naturalness.


----------



## FrivolsListener

volikovvv said:


> For sound without coloring, better to go with pro studio audio gear IMHO.



If you can afford it.  And put in all the appropriate power filtering and other infrastructure that exists in a studio.   The Magni 3 sits on my nightstand and does just fine.  I might even put one in at work instead of the Magni, even though that's not a critical listening environment.


----------



## ian1386

I finally decided to step up my headphone game at work, so I got my Modi Multibit and Magni 3 combo last week and have been listening to TH-X00 purplehearts with them throughout the week. They replaced a Fiio E17 and AKG K550s, which were obviously blown out of the water in all respects, and I'm having a really enjoyable and nostalgic time going back to listen to every corner of my music library.

I don't have much to compare to so I won't, but I do have a few things to mention:

I hear a noticeable difference in bass between low and high gain, with high gain seeming to give a bit of a bass boost. In a lot of content this high gain bass boost sounds good, but other times it's just too much with these TH-X00 purplehearts (which are bassy to begin with). Specifically, when I put on Random Access Memories with high gain, the bass was overwhelming and muddy sounding. When I switched it to low gain and increased the knob (9 o'clock to about 12), I felt like the overall level was the same but the bass was a lot more manageable and tight.
I also experience balance issues at low volumes, for about 10-15 degrees of rotation from zero. Not an issue for me, since that's still less than about half of my lowest listening level with these cans.
My volume knob isn't mounted straight (or the pot is just cheap or defective). As in, when you turn the volume knob a full rotation, the outermost part of the knob wobbles by about 1mm and the knob is only straight (from above) when it's at 12 o'clock. This obviously doesn't affect usage, and I guess some corners need to be cut for the price, but it does still bother me a little.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Nov 14, 2017)

ian1386 said:


> I hear a noticeable difference in bass between low and high gain, with high gain seeming to give a bit of a bass boost.



This is because it's louder--we perceive more bass (relative to the rest of the sound) when the volume goes up. If you volume match with proper equipment, you'll see there's no difference.

That bloom you mention I daresay must be your headphones, not the amp.

Also, about the volume knob problem you mention in 3, I think you should return yours as defective. That's not normal. My volume pot is perfectly centered and smooth


----------



## HoneysPoohBear

Just bought a brand new Magni 3 off ebay for $80. Looking forward to listening to my new setup. Going to be rocking a Modi 2 Uber with Magni 3 through a new pair of AKG K712. Hoping it will be an upgrade from my current ps4 setup of DSS and HD 598.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

HoneysPoohBear said:


> Just bought a brand new Magni 3 off ebay for $80. Looking forward to listening to my new setup. Going to be rocking a Modi 2 Uber with Magni 3 through a new pair of AKG K712. Hoping it will be an upgrade from my current ps4 setup of DSS and HD 598.



I wonder how did you get that offer but good for you!


----------



## HoneysPoohBear

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> I wonder how did you get that offer but good for you!


There just so happened to be one on ebay for auction. I asked the seller how much he would take for it today. Talked him down $10 and buy it now so I didn't have to wait another 4 days for the auction to end. So excited!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

HoneysPoohBear said:


> There just so happened to be one on ebay for auction. I asked the seller how much he would take for it today. Talked him down $10 and buy it now so I didn't have to wait another 4 days for the auction to end. So excited!



Awesome deal! I would consider it a bargain at $99 but at $80, even better.


----------



## ian1386

DJ The Rocket said:


> This is because it's louder--we perceive more bass (relative to the rest of the sound) when the volume goes up. If you volume match with proper equipment, you'll see there's no difference.
> That bloom you mention I daresay must be your headphones, not the amp.
> Also, about the volume knob problem you mention in 3, I think you should return yours as defective. That's not normal. My volume pot is perfectly centered and smooth



Isn't there a non-zero possibility that the high and low gain settings do in fact differ slightly in output even when volume matched? My method is obviously very unscientific: flip the gain switch and turn the knob to what _seems_ like the same volume (based on listening comfort, since it's pretty loud). But as unscientific as my method is, there's still a noticeable difference with certain bass-heavy content (currently listening to Daft Punk's Doin' it Right). These TH-X00 PH cans definitely have some bloom regardless, but it's still repeatably less offensive on low gain than high gain.

I'm not saying that there definitely is a difference, and am open to being convinced that it's just my ears playing tricks on me, but if you're asserting that there definitely isn't a difference then I'd be curious to know why/how you're making that assertion.

As for the volume knob wobble, I didn't really care to go through the exchange process at first but you're right -- I know this will continue to bother me, so I've sent an email to Schiit about getting a replacement.


----------



## DavidA

@ian1386, with some amps the high and low gain setting have different output impedances so this might affect the sound but since the specs for the Magni3 only say <0.3 ohm for both settings I don't think this is the case.  I'd suggest getting a dB meter app if you have a smart phone, its not the best way but its more accurate than our own hearing.  Also, use a test tone to set the volume level, not music.


----------



## Left Channel

ian1386 said:


> 2. I also experience balance issues at low volumes, for about 10-15 degrees of rotation from zero. Not an issue for me, since that's still less than about half of my lowest listening level with these cans.



Glad it doesn't both you, but those who listen at low levels should know this is a common issue with many products at this price level. I solved it on my Magni 2U by adding inline attenuators. See these two posts: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-magni-headphone-amplifier.640783/page-150#post-13254036


----------



## ian1386

DavidA said:


> @ian1386, with some amps the high and low gain setting have different output impedances so this might affect the sound but since the specs for the Magni3 only say <0.3 ohm for both settings I don't think this is the case.  I'd suggest getting a dB meter app if you have a smart phone, its not the best way but its more accurate than our own hearing.  Also, use a test tone to set the volume level, not music.



Fair enough -- I do actually have access to a calibrated mic, so I'll see if I can bring it into the office to get some measurements. I'm sure it'll prove me and my ears wrong!

As for the wobbly volume knob, Schiit has been quick to respond and they're taking care of it. They're starting with the easiest thing first and sending me a new knob since I can't tell just by looking at the pot if it's also wobbly, too.


----------



## Tuneslover

Tuneslover said:


> My biggest gripe with the Magni's I've owned in the past, as well as, my current Vali 2 is the loud popping sound that comes over my Audioengine A2's when I power on these amps.  Does this also happen with the Magni 3?  I guess I need to get into the habit of turning the volume dial down and off on the A2's to avoid that annoying racket.



I just thought of a little trick to avoid the loud popping sound upon start-up of the Schiit Magni's and Vali 2.  I just inserted a mini-to-1/4" headphone plug adaptor (without a headphone) into my Vali 2 headphone output.  After turning on the amp I just wait for 10-15 seconds and then remove the adaptor if I want to listen to my A2's or plug in a pair of headphones.  This way I don't need to screw around with the rear volume/on-off knob on the A2.  However I will need to remember to plug the adaptor back into the headphone output after I'm done listening and shut off the amp.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Tuneslover said:


> I just thought of a little trick to avoid the loud popping sound upon start-up of the Schiit Magni's and Vali 2.  I just inserted a mini-to-1/4" headphone plug adaptor (without a headphone) into my Vali 2 headphone output.  After turning on the amp I just wait for 10-15 seconds and then remove the adaptor if I want to listen to my A2's or plug in a pair of headphones.  This way I don't need to screw around with the rear volume/on-off knob on the A2.  However I will need to remember to plug the adaptor back into the headphone output after I'm done listening and shut off the amp.



I haven't had any popping on my Magni 3, Asgard 2, or original Vali.  My Lyr 2 popped really loudly... it was mildly disturbing.  It got sold.  No reason to put up with that with so many other good amps out there.


----------



## Alcophone

Astral Abyss said:


> I haven't had any popping on my Magni 3, Asgard 2, or original Vali.  My Lyr 2 popped really loudly... it was mildly disturbing.  It got sold.  No reason to put up with that with so many other good amps out there.


Same here! I thought I had wired it up incorrectly. My Vidar even went into protection. That was scary, so I put a SYS in between. Turned the volume down on the SYS, turned on the Lyr 2, waited a bit, turned the volume up slowly for both: voilà. Still, disqualifies it as a preamp for me. But maybe I did wire it up wrong the first time.


----------



## dukeReinhardt

Just got my Magni 3. I have some issues, none of which is particularly big, but wanted to ask whether it seems normal.

1. RCA connectors seem relatively loose compared to the death-grip on my speaker amp and source.
2. Volume pot has a few degrees of dead zone - as in, when changing direction, it's loose for a few degrees before it physically engages.
3. Something inside the unit slightly rattles when it's gently shook.

The pot is also unbalanced at low levels (one side actually goes silent), but I see other people fairly commonly have this issue, so I guess it's not a concern?

I assume it's just kind of unavoidable little things at this price range?


----------



## RickB

dukeReinhardt said:


> Just got my Magni 3. I have some issues, none of which is particularly big, but wanted to ask whether it seems normal.
> 
> 1. RCA connectors seem relatively loose compared to the death-grip on my speaker amp and source.
> 2. Volume pot has a few degrees of dead zone - as in, when changing direction, it's loose for a few degrees before it physically engages.
> ...



Nope, my Magni 3 has none of those problems. I would contact Schiit about getting it exchanged.


----------



## dukeReinhardt (Nov 16, 2017)

Lol really.... Thanks, certainly worth knowing my unit is defective, albeit slightly. I'll think about it. Not really sure I want to go through the returns process :/


----------



## FrivolsListener

dukeReinhardt said:


> Just got my Magni 3. I have some issues, none of which is particularly big, but wanted to ask whether it seems normal.
> 
> 1. RCA connectors seem relatively loose compared to the death-grip on my speaker amp and source.
> 2. Volume pot has a few degrees of dead zone - as in, when changing direction, it's loose for a few degrees before it physically engages.
> ...



Mine has none of those issues.  I'd get it exchanged.


----------



## Jimster480

dukeReinhardt said:


> Just got my Magni 3. I have some issues, none of which is particularly big, but wanted to ask whether it seems normal.
> 
> 1. RCA connectors seem relatively loose compared to the death-grip on my speaker amp and source.
> 2. Volume pot has a few degrees of dead zone - as in, when changing direction, it's loose for a few degrees before it physically engages.
> ...


The Pot problem where its mismatched might be an issue of the price of the unit overall.
Really well matched POTs cost alot of money. But it shouldn't have play or have loose connectors, I would contact them for a replacement.


----------



## UNOE

The unbalanced pot seems to be the norm though correct.  BA IEM I have can't really use Magni 3 with them because unbalanced at normal listening volume.  Wish Magni 3 had lower negative gain setting.


----------



## Merkurio

dukeReinhardt said:


> Just got my Magni 3. I have some issues, none of which is particularly big, but wanted to ask whether it seems normal.
> 
> 1. RCA connectors seem relatively loose compared to the death-grip on my speaker amp and source.
> 2. Volume pot has a few degrees of dead zone - as in, when changing direction, it's loose for a few degrees before it physically engages.
> ...



Have the same subtle rattle issue when I shake my unit, but I can safetly say there's nothing to be worry about.

I opened the Magni a few moments ago and the rattle seems to come from one of the rear switches' cases:







I haven't seen any loose piece, the design indeed looks very sturdy and the components are nicely weld.


----------



## Jimster480

UNOE said:


> The unbalanced pot seems to be the norm though correct.  BA IEM I have can't really use Magni 3 with them because unbalanced at normal listening volume.  Wish Magni 3 had lower negative gain setting.


Yes I had the same issue and this is why I sold my Magni3.
The thing is that my headphones are all sensitive and therefore I have no volume control and channel imbalance (on some).


----------



## dukeReinhardt (Nov 16, 2017)

Thanks for all the input! So, to summarize:

1. Pot imbalance at low levels is a defect, but sort of common among cheaper volume knobs.
2. Rattle seems to be from a manufacturing tolerance issue on switch casing, not a huge problem.
3. RCA connections being loose is in fact a serious defect. Thing is I think I may have misrepresented the issue - the jacks do not wobble at all, they're solid against the Magni case. I just meant that RCA cables seem to fit more easily onto the jacks than the way they normally do. They just slide on and off with moderate force instead of the absolute death-grip force it takes to put them on and off the jacks on my source and speaker amp.
4. Dead zone on volume pot is a proper defect as well.

Thanks for all the input. Again, will have to think about my next steps.. It does kind of bother me how much of the low end is completely mismatched, and dead zone on the pot is bearable, but somewhat annoying.


----------



## warsfanbb8

I am very new to this. So I had joined the massdrop for the Sennheiser 650s. Haven't got them yet, but should be any day now.

I also ordered the Magni 3.

My plan is to listen to music from either my portable sony CD player, or my Samsung S6 phone. 

Will this work? Just plug my Magni into the outlet, connect my music device onto it, and the headphones on the Magni?

And do I really need a DAC for anything?

Again, very new to all of this.


----------



## Jimster480

warsfanbb8 said:


> I am very new to this. So I had joined the massdrop for the Sennheiser 650s. Haven't got them yet, but should be any day now.
> 
> I also ordered the Magni 3.
> 
> ...


That would be double amping your music.
Most portable CD players do not have a line out.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

You'll need a 3.5mm TRS cable to dual RCA to hook it up your phone directly to the magni.  Your quality will be limited to the output of both your phone and that sony CD player.  A dedicated DAC therefore will generally result in better audio performance than simply hooking up your phone, but you may have to look into what kind of connections are available on your source devices and go from there.


----------



## Cer3lakIller

Will the pre out work when the amp is off powered? like a pasive sys for example? Im planning on getting an M3 to control my powered monitors and and to drive  headphones, but because I mostly do my listening throu the speakers it woould be really nice if the amp cand do the pre out controling without beeing on all the time, thus increasing the universe entrophy.


----------



## warsfanbb8

Are those cheap DACs on Amazon any good, especially considering I'll have a good amp (Magni 3)?

I always just thought DACs were just for listening music from your computer and whatnot.


----------



## dukeReinhardt (Nov 17, 2017)

Is there any way to know the maximum capabilities of the Magni 3's preamp? For example if you feed a typical 2V line in, I think the headphone amp runs out of power at the far end of the HI gain (obviously not before you've died). But is the _preamp_ also clipping? Presumably it clips at some point _after_ the headphone amp clips. Is this information available? If not, is it _likely_ that the Magni 3 clips in this scenario?

Edit: Nvm.. speakers get insanely too loud on 2x gain hah.


----------



## Jimster480

warsfanbb8 said:


> Are those cheap DACs on Amazon any good, especially considering I'll have a good amp (Magni 3)?
> 
> I always just thought DACs were just for listening music from your computer and whatnot.


This depends on what you consider cheap.
There are alot of cheap and "good" DAC's.


----------



## DavidA

warsfanbb8 said:


> Are those cheap DACs on Amazon any good, especially considering I'll have a good amp (Magni 3)?
> 
> I always just thought DACs were just for listening music from your computer and whatnot.


Most of the cheaper DACs are so-so IMO but most are also part of a DAC/amp combo.  If your CD player has a line out then going straight to the Magni3 should be okay but as the poster above mentioned you will be double amping and the quality of the signal will be based on the DAC section of your CD player and phone which may or may not be good.

DACs are not just for listening to music from a computer since there are stand alone CD/DVD players that will output a digital signal for those that want to use a specific DAC to do the analog to digital conversion versus the internal DAC of the device.  Remember GIGO, garbage in - garbage out, so if your CD player or phone outputs a bad signal the Magni3 will only amplify the bad signal.


----------



## warsfanbb8

DavidA said:


> Most of the cheaper DACs are so-so IMO but most are also part of a DAC/amp combo.  If your CD player has a line out then going straight to the Magni3 should be okay but as the poster above mentioned you will be double amping and the quality of the signal will be based on the DAC section of your CD player and phone which may or may not be good.
> 
> DACs are not just for listening to music from a computer since there are stand alone CD/DVD players that will output a digital signal for those that want to use a specific DAC to do the analog to digital conversion versus the internal DAC of the device.  Remember GIGO, garbage in - garbage out, so if your CD player or phone outputs a bad signal the Magni3 will only amplify the bad signal.



I see, so maybe I should've gotten the Modi 2 too 

What about this cheap one from Amazon? https://www.amazon.com/PROZOR-Digit...pID=41LGG8dggIL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

Its really cheap but also gets great reviews.


----------



## Jimster480

warsfanbb8 said:


> I see, so maybe I should've gotten the Modi 2 too
> 
> What about this cheap one from Amazon? https://www.amazon.com/PROZOR-Digit...pID=41LGG8dggIL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
> 
> Its really cheap but also gets great reviews.


There is also FiiO Taishan in that price range, but unless your PC has a optical or a coax out you cannot use that.


----------



## warsfanbb8

Jimster480 said:


> There is also FiiO Taishan in that price range, but unless your PC has a optical or a coax out you cannot use that.



So what's the difference between the cheap ones from Amazon and the $99 Modi 2? Don't they do the same job.


----------



## Jimster480

Its not about the same job, technically every DAC does the same job. 
its about the quality of the sound that is produced.
How resolving they are, etc.

if you are new to audio with only cheap headphones you won't notice as much of a difference, or you might not notice one.
But there are different pieces of gear with different characteristics and different resolving abilities and different interfaces too.


----------



## alpovs

They do exactly the same job but differently quality-wise.


----------



## bilboda

dukeReinhardt said:


> Thanks for all the input! So, to summarize:
> 
> 1. Pot imbalance at low levels is a defect, but sort of common among cheaper volume knobs.
> ,,,
> ...


I kind of hoped the pot would not be a problem. From Schitt Happened: "We also re-curved the custom Alps potentiometer for better tracking at low levels..."
This makes me think it's not working as designed and should be replaced.... So report back with how it works out, this fence is getting uncomfortable.


----------



## VinylDan1

I just upgraded to a Magni3/Modi Multibit stack from a Fulla2 since my HD6XX should be here sooner than later. In the meantime I am using it with my Grado SR80e and AT ATH-M50x headphones. I love the design and the sound, but the volume control is lacking on the Magni3, especially compared to the Fulla2. My Magni3 has a knob with a lot of resistance (in my opinion), and the close placement to the jack makes it difficult to make fine adjustments. The knob on my Fulla2 was smooth as glass with the perfect amount of a smidge of resistance. The knob on my Magni3 also has a bit of wobble but I doubt that is related.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

VinylDan1 said:


> I just upgraded to a Magni3/Modi Multibit stack from a Fulla2 since my HD6XX should be here sooner than later. In the meantime I am using it with my Grado SR80e and AT ATH-M50x headphones. I love the design and the sound, but the volume control is lacking on the Magni3, especially compared to the Fulla2. My Magni3 has a knob with a lot of resistance (in my opinion), and the close placement to the jack makes it difficult to make fine adjustments. The knob on my Fulla2 was smooth as glass with the perfect amount of a smidge of resistance. The knob on my Magni3 also has a bit of wobble but I doubt that is related.



Fulla 2's knob is much larger in diameter, resulting in easier control.  Electronically they both use the ALPS RK09 pot.  You can imagine how much harder the Magni 2's volume knob was, since it's considerably smaller than the Magni 3's.


----------



## dukeReinhardt

I'm trying to figure out how clipping works, and I think I get the idea, but there's some parts which I'm not sure about. In fact I only feel moderately confident in any part of the following..

So clipping from source -> pre-amp -> power amp -> speakers/headphones can occur in the following ways:

1. digital clipping from a bad song at the source
2. hot input into the pre-amp which can cause pre-amp to run out of power before reaching full volume
3. hot input into the power amp "
4. speaker/headphone distortion/blowout due to loading them past their power rating.

The Magni 3's maximum output voltage according to specs should be _at least _11.7V, considering this is what it would take for 230mW into 600ohms which is the maximum capability of the headphone amp section. Working back from this by dividing this max voltage by the max gain setting (11.7/7), the input sensitivity of the pre-amp is exactly/higher (lower voltage) than ~1.68V. If I feed a line level 2V signal, the headphone amp (and possibly the pre-amp) will eventually clip on the high gain setting, but neither will ever clip on low gain, despite the "hot" line in, since the maximum output of 2V line in multiplied by low gain setting (2x2) is 4V, much lower than the pre-amp's maximum voltage. Is this about right?

Assuming the above is correct, I now want to look at what happens when the pre-out goes into my Nad C340. This is a stereo amp with a maximum capability of 50Wpc at 8ohms, so this means the maximum output voltage is at least 20V. I found online specs that state the unit's input sensitivity is 0.165V, and I assume this isn't massively different to that of the power amp section. This is where it gets especially confusing to me. Does this seriously mean that the gain on the amp is something like 121 (42dB), calculated by dividing apparent maximum output voltage by the required input voltage (20/0.165)? And if I feed the 4V of the pre-amp into it, clipping would happen near the bottom of the volume control, as the maximum volume on the amp would theoretically require 484V or 29kW?!

I'm clearly wrong on certain assumptions because on actually _trying _this setup, I didn't even encounter audible clipping up to the halfway point on the volume control, and it wasn't deafeningly loud either. Can anyone please set me straight?


----------



## Cer3lakIller (Nov 18, 2017)

dukeReinhardt said:


> I'm trying to figure out how clipping works, and I think I get the idea, but there's some parts which I'm not sure about. In fact I only feel moderately confident in any part of the following..
> 
> So clipping from source -> pre-amp -> power amp -> speakers/headphones can occur in the following ways:
> 
> ...


 Your amps input sensitivity is most likely to be the lowest signal the amp can take, not the maximum input level, Wich is likely to be somewhat around 2volts. Besides an amp Wich max input signal can only be .16volts will clip at all times

Edit: magni 3 pre out may or may not have a gain stage, it means it may just be a pass through with an atenuator for level control or it may amp the input signal a little bit, someone will have to measure and confirm this, but it is not likely to be a 4v output because that will definitely excede any other gear input voltage, only  (some) car stereos have 4v outputs to compensate for long cable runs and electric noise and car amps have do have input controls to works that out


----------



## dukeReinhardt (Nov 19, 2017)

Cer3lakIller said:


> Your amps input sensitivity is most likely to be the lowest signal the amp can take, not the maximum input level, Wich is likely to be somewhat around 2volts. Besides an amp Wich max input signal can only be .16volts will clip at all times
> 
> Edit: magni 3 pre out may or may not have a gain stage, it means it may just be a pass through with an atenuator for level control or it may amp the input signal a little bit, someone will have to measure and confirm this, but it is not likely to be a 4v output because that will definitely excede any other gear input voltage, only  (some) car stereos have 4v outputs to compensate for long cable runs and electric noise and car amps have do have input controls to works that out



Thanks for indulging me ^^"

I thought the point of "input sensitivity" is that it's a set measurement of the voltage required at input for an amp to reach its maximum rated power. I've read various sources have varying output voltages from phono (200mV) to CD (2V), and certainly from reading about it there are some NAD amps out there with 40x gain.

Considering in practical application that everything seems ok at half volume on my setup, I assume the amp _isn't _in fact taking the 4V signal and multiplying it 121 times. Or the signal isn't in fact 4V. Either or both....

Edit: I've now realized power and active pre-amp sections on an integrated amp, being separate sections, tend to have their own input sensitivity and thus their own maximum output (I guess this makes sense..). So another NAD integrated for example seems to have input sensitivity of 1V on the power amp but 250mV on the pre-amp, so I suppose the pre in this situation is adding 4x gain, and the power amp adds the rest of the gain. I'm guessing it's a similar situation for the Magni 3 and the NAD C340 both? I mean if the preamp itself is driving 14V then I guess the headphone amp would be doing nothing. If for example the Magni 3's amp gain is 2x, then the pre-amp gain would actually be 1x and 3.5x.

In other words the only way for me to find out what's going on is to either make measurements myself or _ask the manufacturers_ the maximum output on the Magni 3 pre-amp, as well as the input sensitivity of the C340's power amp, am I right?


----------



## ofilippov

volikovvv said:


> Received my Magni 3 today, but my impressions are not so good as yours. Currently i have setup pc->wyrd->modi 2->magni2uber->DT 770 pro 80 and HD600, im sad to say but sound of magni 3 i can describe as downgrade compared to magni2U, yes magni 3 a little bit more transparent and a little different soundstage, but magni2u have more evolving and fuller sound, bass is more defined with 2U, treble sounds more natural, vocals are more livlier . Magni3 as for me have sterile sounding, some kind of synthetic maybe, not interesting to listen - at all. Maybe modi 2 dac is not so good for this amp, i don't know. Actually i didn't understand all that hype around that amplifier... volume knob feels much cheaper compared to magni2uber, its not about visual, it's about feeling when regulating it, i didn't expected so cheap feelings about that. I'm not disappointed, i think that 50$ less - is quite reasonable for this unit.
> 
> p.s. i decided to stay with Magni2U at this moment, and sell magni 3 in my country. Don't know in which side to think for the system upgrade...
> 
> Little update: currently i listen to my xonar stx with dt 770 at home after work, and i found that sound of magni 3 brings schiit stack closer to xonar stx sound, but from that point of view and sound reproduction STX is better, but i don't prefer this sound, i find stx sounding... don't know how to describe this, too digital and harsh maybe... For gaming and cinema STX is ok, but not for music listening.


From what I've personally heard you might want to check Jotunheim. Especially balanced. Mjolnir 2 is great but it's way more expansive and balanced output even more preferred here because of the cyclotron design. I would love to hear Asgard 2 and Cayin IHA-6 some day.


----------



## 0pethian

So Magni 3 is an ideal entry level Amp, when shiit will make an similar entry level Multibit DAC for this amp ...
Modi Mbit should be cheaper to make a perfect under $200 or exactly $200 stack ...


----------



## Jimster480

0pethian said:


> So Magni 3 is an ideal entry level Amp, when shiit will make an similar entry level Multibit DAC for this amp ...
> Modi Mbit should be cheaper to make a perfect under $200 or exactly $200 stack ...


The cost of the chips themselves are a bit too high to be able to make it for $100 in order to make it a $200 stack.
I think the very best they could do would be around $150 but that leaves very little to no profit at all for them.
I think as it stands right now just guessing their costs they might be at $135 per unit, but thats not including investment for R&D or day to day operating costs or supplier costs.


----------



## squee116

0pethian said:


> So Magni 3 is an ideal entry level Amp, when shiit will make an similar entry level Multibit DAC for this amp ...
> Modi Mbit should be cheaper to make a perfect under $200 or exactly $200 stack ...


Considering the nearest multibit competitor pricing, I think Schiit managed a miracle.


----------



## Jerda

0pethian said:


> So Magni 3 is an ideal entry level Amp, when shiit will make an similar entry level Multibit DAC for this amp ...
> Modi Mbit should be cheaper to make a perfect under $200 or exactly $200 stack ...


You can also buy an used mimby eh


----------



## VinylDan1

I’m plenty satisfied with the Magni3/Modi Multibit stack at the price, although $200 flat for the Modi Multibit would be cool.


----------



## ofilippov

0pethian said:


> So Magni 3 is an ideal entry level Amp, when shiit will make an similar entry level Multibit DAC for this amp ...
> Modi Mbit should be cheaper to make a perfect under $200 or exactly $200 stack ...


I really doubt that you will hear any difference between modi mb and delta sigma unless you have $800+ headphones. Then if you have trained ears (to hear differences in electronics in particular) then maybe you'll hear something. That said I couldn't hear a thing with fostex th-610 + magni 3. Consider that I played some musical instruments for a number of years and still can easily tell if the instrument is not tuned up properly.
One more thing - I read somewhere that MB DACs should be turned on for a while (up to days ) to reveal their full potential. Don't know whether it's true. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## squee116

ofilippov said:


> I really doubt that you will hear any difference between modi mb and delta sigma unless you have $800+ headphones. Then if you have trained ears (to hear differences in electronics in particular) then maybe you'll hear something. That said I couldn't hear a thing with fostex th-610 + magni 3. Consider that I played some musical instruments for a number of years and still can easily tell if the instrument is not tuned up properly.
> One more thing - I read somewhere that MB DACs should be turned on for a while (up to days ) to reveal their full potential. Don't know whether it's true. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


This is absolutely true and based on scientific fact.
The MB DACs actually need to warm up.  Multibit DACs use what's called resistor ladders in their design, and the values of resistors actually aren't fixed.  They change based on their temperature, and are often designed based on their values while they are warm.  If you listen to the DAC before the resistors warm up, their values may not be what the rest of the DAC was designed to expect.  So run MB DACs warm.


----------



## sennsay

ofilippov said:


> From what I've personally heard you might want to check Jotunheim. Especially balanced. Mjolnir 2 is great but it's way more expansive and balanced output even more preferred here because of the cyclotron design. I would love to hear Asgard 2 and Cayin IHA-6 some day.





ofilippov said:


> I really doubt that you will hear any difference between modi mb and delta sigma unless you have $800+ headphones. Then if you have trained ears (to hear differences in electronics in particular) then maybe you'll hear something. That said I couldn't hear a thing with fostex th-610 + magni 3. Consider that I played some musical instruments for a number of years and still can easily tell if the instrument is not tuned up properly.
> One more thing - I read somewhere that MB DACs should be turned on for a while (up to days ) to reveal their full potential. Don't know whether it's true. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Apparently so, in the realm of weeks for the Yggdrasil, I hear from a number of users and reviewers. 
BTW, an earlier comment from someone who had just bought an Magni 3 and immediately compared it to his old system, found he was unhappy with the sound and was considering selling it on, please give it some time! It's new out of the box, the sig changes over several days, fills out, smooths out.


----------



## ofilippov (Nov 24, 2017)

Wow, then I have to confess, I was listening to cold DACs... Sounds like you have to buy 2 DACs and return one in a week 

And regarding Magni 3 - I didn't notice much of a difference in sound right out of the box and few days later while listening on my hd598.


----------



## FrivolsListener

ofilippov said:


> I really doubt that you will hear any difference between modi mb and delta sigma unless you have $800+ headphones. Then if you have trained ears (to hear differences in electronics in particular) then maybe you'll hear something. That said I couldn't hear a thing with fostex th-610 + magni 3. Consider that I played some musical instruments for a number of years and still can easily tell if the instrument is not tuned up properly.
> One more thing - I read somewhere that MB DACs should be turned on for a while (up to days ) to reveal their full potential. Don't know whether it's true. Please correct me if I'm wrong.



Maybe _you_ won't, but I certainly did, and I don't have "trained ears" -- whatever that means.  I just pay attention and have some decent source material.  The latter is very important.  My test tracks got demoted when I didn't notice a difference on them, but was blown away by an obscure track that I hadn't paid much attention to before.


----------



## Tuneslover

I believe it has been mentioned numerous times throughout the Bifrost MB and Modi MB threads that these DACs need to be plugged in and turned on all the time in order to achieve constant thermal equilibrium...AND...to sound their best.  I even contacted Schiit about this and they said that it doesn't hurt the DAC leaving it continuously powered, they even recommended it.  I have 2 turntable setups with stand alone phono preamps that have been powered on for years.


----------



## ofilippov (Nov 20, 2017)

FrivolsListener said:


> Maybe _you_ won't, but I certainly did, and I don't have "trained ears" -- whatever that means.  I just pay attention and have some decent source material.  The latter is very important.  My test tracks got demoted when I didn't notice a difference on them, but was blown away by an obscure track that I hadn't paid much attention to before.



Yep, maybe you're right. Thank you for reminding me.
1) I've got the material you was telling me about. Didn't come across MB dac that was powered on for a while yet.
2) As I stated above, I was listening to cold Modi MB, out of the box. Maybe that's the reason I didn't notice much difference.
3) I don't know the headphones you are using.
4) Maybe I wasn't in a mood and/or didn't convince myself that I'm hearing anything different.
5) One should decide if it's worth his/her money spent if the difference can be heard only with small amount of music that one has.

Don't know, hopefully gonna find out with my next DAC iteration, but it probably belongs to different thread 

Edited: added 5th


----------



## FrivolsListener

ofilippov said:


> Yep, maybe you're right. Thank you for reminding me.
> 1) I've got the material you was telling me about. Didn't come across MB dac that was powered on for a while yet.
> 2) As I stated above, I was listening to cold Modi MB, out of the box. Maybe that's the reason I didn't notice much difference.
> 3) I don't know the headphones you are using.
> ...



Headphones were HD-600 and HD-800.   I bet I could notice the difference with Sony MDR-V6s, though!
Amp was an original Magni.
Hopefully this falls under fair use: http://www.pinewood-wireless.net/demo.flac


----------



## ofilippov

FrivolsListener said:


> Headphones were HD-600 and HD-800.   I bet I could notice the difference with Sony MDR-V6s, though!
> Amp was an original Magni.
> Hopefully this falls under fair use: http://www.pinewood-wireless.net/demo.flac


Thank you so much for the source. I will definitely use it for DAC comparison . That's a strong statement with Sony MDRs)


----------



## halibut11

Just my two cents but I started with a Magni 3 + Modu 2U  stack and gave it 2 weeks and ended up trading the Modi 2U for the modi multibit. I heard the difference a lot more when I listened to live recordings and acoustic material, there was more detail and fullness, and it did have a bit of an advantage all around. For an extra 100 I think that it is  worthwhile upgrade. I also couldn't discern much of a difference between the Mimby and Bimby if that means anything.


----------



## FrivolsListener

halibut11 said:


> Just my two cents but I started with a Magni 3 + Modu 2U  stack and gave it 2 weeks and ended up trading the Modi 2U for the modi multibit. I heard the difference a lot more when I listened to live recordings and acoustic material, there was more detail and fullness, and it did have a bit of an advantage all around. For an extra 100 I think that it is  worthwhile upgrade. I also couldn't discern much of a difference between the Mimby and Bimby if that means anything.



You shouldn't.  Bimby is higher tolerance components, AFAIK, but the DACs are the same.  It's also modular and upgradable.


----------



## halibut11

FrivolsListener said:


> You shouldn't.  Bimby is higher tolerance components, AFAIK, but the DACs are the same.  It's also modular and upgradable.



Yeah I agree, but I definitely heard a difference between the Modi 2U and Bifrost 4490. I just thought it was interesting. I get the upgradable nature, but at that point I would just move up to the Gungnir. Again, it's all subjective I guess.


----------



## Left Channel (Nov 20, 2017)

@warsfanbb8 I'm surprised nobody has asked this yet: what kind of CD player do you have? That might help us advise you.

(Also: did anyone notice the "odometer" click over to 1000 posts about half an hour ago? Great thread!)


----------



## eyoon

FrivolsListener said:


> You shouldn't.  Bimby is higher tolerance components, AFAIK, but the DACs are the same.  It's also modular and upgradable.



It should also be noted that the Bimby now comes with gen 5 USB compared to the Mimby. Sure you could add an Eitr to the Mimby but then the price gap between the two narrows.


----------



## HoneysPoohBear (Nov 20, 2017)

Holy $h1t, just got the Shiit Stack today with a new pair of AKG K712. I am so glad I went with this instead of the X2s. The bass, clarity, soundstage is all amazing. I tried out my DT 770 pro 80 with the stack and it was ok, trebles are a little sharp but very clear and detailed. The HD 598s sounded amazing as well, definitely brings out the meds well. I would say the K712s are the best of both worlds, happy medium between the two. Great bass, soundstage, clarity and treble. I honestly think I am done with headphones, I found the pair that's perfect! And did I mention comfort? AKG is the best!!!!!!!! A lot more comfortable than the 598s or the 770s


----------



## trellus

HoneysPoohBear said:


> Holy $h1t, just got the Shiit Stack today with a new pair of AKG K712. I am so glad I went with this instead of the X2s. The bass, clarity, soundstage is all amazing. I tried out my DT 770 pro 80 with the stack and it was ok, trebles are a little sharp but very clear and detailed. The HD 598s sounded amazing as well, definitely brings out the meds well. I would say the K712s are the best of both worlds, happy medium between the two. Great bass, soundstage, clarity and treble. I honestly think I am done with headphones, I found the pair that's perfect! And did I mention comfort? AKG is the best!!!!!!!! A lot more comfortable than the 598s or the 770s



Enjoy the music!


----------



## FrivolsListener

HoneysPoohBear said:


> Holy $h1t, just got the Shiit Stack today with a new pair of AKG K712. I am so glad I went with this instead of the X2s. The bass, clarity, soundstage is all amazing. I tried out my DT 770 pro 80 with the stack and it was ok, trebles are a little sharp but very clear and detailed. The HD 598s sounded amazing as well, definitely brings out the meds well. I would say the K712s are the best of both worlds, happy medium between the two. Great bass, soundstage, clarity and treble. I honestly think I am done with headphones, I found the pair that's perfect! And did I mention comfort? AKG is the best!!!!!!!! A lot more comfortable than the 598s or the 770s



What's in the Schiit stack?


----------



## Ears Deluxe

HoneysPoohBear said:


> Just bought a brand new Magni 3 off ebay for $80. Looking forward to listening to my new setup. Going to be rocking a Modi 2 Uber with Magni 3 through a new pair of AKG K712. Hoping it will be an upgrade from my current ps4 setup of DSS and HD 598.


I got my Magni 3 last week, and I am officially in love. I've always had tubed gear and have most recently been listening through a Dark Voice 336, which I love, but which just didn't have enough volume for me. So I bought the Magni to provide that power, hoping that the sound would not be too brittle and mechanical (I favor tube gear because it always seems more musical, flowing, and engaging). In that regard, I couldn't be happier. The Magni gives me the ideal balance of musicality, flow, precision, engagement, life, detail, weight, and effortlessness. The music just appears. The instruments and voices are distinct in timbre and space, yet all part of an organic whole. The bass is solid and deep without any hint of bloat (the thing I'm most sensitive to). The treble is naturally extended without the slightest hint of harshness or strain. But the most impressive thing of all is that I'm not thinking about any of these things when I'm listening; I'm just utterly involved in the music. And that's the point, of course. 

I'm listening to it in this system: a MacBook Pro running the latest version of Audirvana into an AudioQuest Jitterbug into a Fiio X5 II as a DAC, and then into the Schiit going out to my Etymotic ER4 RS phones. That combination is giving me the most satisfying, engaging music I've yet heard. The fact that the components are all modestly priced only makes it more satisfying. In the past I've used Audio Research, Quicksilver, Cary, and a variety of other high-end equipment, which makes it all the more amazing to me that this inexpensive setup is giving me everything I want. And, as so often happens in audio, it's not any one component that's making it work, but the combination of all of them. You could buy a Magni or the Etymotics or the Fiio and put them in your system and not hear what I'm hearing (though the Etymotics always sound amazing in any system). Certainly, I've had all these components hooked up in different configurations without getting to nirvana. But once I put them together with the Magni 3, magic happened.


----------



## DACattack

Upgraded my stack at work to a Modi Multibit and Magni 3 to feed DT 770 250 ohm headphones. Superb upgrade from my existing Modi Uber and Magni 2. If Santa is nice this year I hope to get an Eitr to replace the Wyrd. Highly, highly recommended.


----------



## Kolapso

Just listened for the first time with Magni 3 and HD650, Nier Automata soundtrack sings!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Kolapso said:


> Just listened for the first time with Magni 3 and HD650, Nier Automata soundtrack sings!



Love nier automata with that combo


----------



## HoneysPoohBear

Kolapso said:


> Just listened for the first time with Magni 3 and HD650, Nier Automata soundtrack sings!


Ever pair it with the HD 600? I think my next headphone will be the 600 or 650


----------



## stansmiths

Oh boy, may someone remind me what the sound signature is like on the Magni 3 v Magni 2?


----------



## Renato Fury

The Magni 3 improves with burning, if the answer is yes, how long would it take for it to reach its maximum potential ?


----------



## Ears Deluxe

Renato Fury said:


> The Magni 3 improves with burning, if the answer is yes, how long would it take for it to reach its maximum potential ?


I did notice some improvement over the first week, which was about 40 or 50 hours, but it's leveled off now. It may improve further, but I suspect if it does it will be incremental.


----------



## mads1

First Repy to this awesome forum and i'm hoping some of you Top Audiophiles can help me out. Ive just got the modi 2 uber and magni 3 but i also have a little Dot mkII tube Amp is there a way a can connect all these up together and use the magni as my headphone source. Maybe next year i will get the Valhalla 2 or 3 if and when it comes out but until then the little dot will do.


----------



## squee116

mads1 said:


> First Repy to this awesome forum and i'm hoping some of you Top Audiophiles can help me out. Ive just got the modi 2 uber and magni 3 but i also have a little Dot mkII tube Amp is there a way a can connect all these up together and use the magni as my headphone source. Maybe next year i will get the Valhalla 2 or 3 if and when it comes out but until then the little dot will do.


You can run an rca split(Y) cable out of the modi, and run separate rca to your magni and little dot simultaneously


----------



## Renato Fury

mads1 said:


> First Repy to this awesome forum and i'm hoping some of you Top Audiophiles can help me out. Ive just got the modi 2 uber and magni 3 but i also have a little Dot mkII tube Amp is there a way a can connect all these up together and use the magni as my headphone source. Maybe next year i will get the Valhalla 2 or 3 if and when it comes out but until then the little dot will do.


PC USB Output <-----> Input Modi 2U Output <-----> Input LD MK2 Output <-----> Input Magni 3 -----> Headphone
I hope you've figured it out.


----------



## mads1 (Nov 24, 2017)

squee116 said:


> You can run an rca split(Y) cable out of the modi, and run separate rca to your magni and little dot simultaneously





Renato Fury said:


> PC USB Output <-----> Input Modi 2U Output <-----> Input LD MK2 Output <-----> Input Magni 3 -----> Headphone
> I hope you've figured it out.



Thanks for your time in replying, i did think to myself this was the best way but after reading the Dot's manual it states not to use it as a pre-amp im i right saying that is what you suggest i do. Ignore my dumb questions but im pretty new to all this. Also has anyone got any recommendation's for a good splitter and not a cheap looking one. Thanks again for all the help.


----------



## DavidA

mads1 said:


> First Repy to this awesome forum and i'm hoping some of you Top Audiophiles can help me out. Ive just got the modi 2 uber and magni 3 but i also have a little Dot mkII tube Amp is there a way a can connect all these up together and use the magni as my headphone source. Maybe next year i will get the Valhalla 2 or 3 if and when it comes out but until then the little dot will do.



Many way to do it:
Use a Schiit SYS/Saga to split the signal or go even cheaper with something like this:
https://www.parts-express.com/gold-rca-y-(1)-male-to-(2)-right-angle-female-red--091-510
https://www.parts-express.com/parts...male-to-(2)-right-angle-female-black--091-515
or
https://www.parts-express.com/rca-male-to-dual-rt-angle-rca-female--091-1045


----------



## mads1

DavidA said:


> Many way to do it:
> Use a Schiit SYS/Saga to split the signal or go even cheaper with something like this:



Thats Great, just what i'm looking for, didn't even know they did a switch source box, Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.


----------



## Kolapso

Don't have any other headphone than HD 650 to test Magni 3 with now unfortunately. It sounds great though!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

mads1 said:


> Thats Great, just what i'm looking for, didn't even know they did a switch source box, Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.



Since you're going to connect two amp to one dac, make sure you reverse the input and output on the SYS. Connect modi to the output and magni and little dot to input.


----------



## Alcophone

mads1 said:


> Thats Great, just what i'm looking for, didn't even know they did a switch source box, Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.





ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Since you're going to connect two amp to one dac, make sure you reverse the input and output on the SYS. Connect modi to the output and magni and little dot to input.



And set the volume to max!


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

Alcophone said:


> And set the volume to max!



Yup! This too


----------



## mads1 (Nov 25, 2017)

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Since you're going to connect two amp to one dac, make sure you reverse the input and output on the SYS. Connect modi to the output and magni and little dot to input.





Alcophone said:


> And set the volume to max!



On the SYS yes and control via norm on the AMP's. Plus i was indeed going to go from modi out to sys out and the sys in's to the amps in's. Just waiting for the switch box to get here then i can connect it all up to my newly custom built PC. Then i will be setting up my lounge system.


----------



## kotomikun

Odd question: If I pick up my Magni 3 and tilt it back and forth, it makes a faint metallic clicking sound. Is that normal, or is there possibly something loose in there? Apparently the Modi's button has the same "issue," but none of the various things sticking out of the Magni seem to be causing its rattle.


----------



## ScOgLiO

Mine doesn't seem to make any kind of noise when tilted


----------



## FrivolsListener

kotomikun said:


> Odd question: If I pick up my Magni 3 and tilt it back and forth, it makes a faint metallic clicking sound. Is that normal, or is there possibly something loose in there? Apparently the Modi's button has the same "issue," but none of the various things sticking out of the Magni seem to be causing its rattle.



Apparently, some of the switch housings will "rattle" a bit like that.   I haven't noticed it in mine, though.


----------



## kotomikun

FrivolsListener said:


> Apparently, some of the switch housings will "rattle" a bit like that.   I haven't noticed it in mine, though.



It does seem to be coming from the back of the case, since (gently) shaking the back makes the noise and shaking the front doesn't. Probably not an issue if it's just the switches, though kind of odd if only some of them do that.

I haven't decided whether there's a sound-quality improvement with this thing (and an HD650), but I haven't tried it with an external DAC because I don't have one yet. Will see how that experiment goes in a few days, hopefully.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

kotomikun said:


> It does seem to be coming from the back of the case, since (gently) shaking the back makes the noise and shaking the front doesn't. Probably not an issue if it's just the switches, though kind of odd if only some of them do that.
> 
> I haven't decided whether there's a sound-quality improvement with this thing (and an HD650), but I haven't tried it with an external DAC because I don't have one yet. Will see how that experiment goes in a few days, hopefully.



Just tried my friend new HD6XX with iDSD BL and (my) magni 3. Resolving and open. I did realize that iDSD BL can only drive the HD6XX to a comfortable listening at max but with magni 3 add up to the chain, you can get a supreme sound with the combo.


----------



## MorrisVentus (Nov 27, 2017)

I know this is impressions guide, but quick question.

I am currently tired of waiting for Modi 3, which is unlikely to come out any sooner I think. I am considering either:
1. Magni 3 and Modi Multibit
2. Jotunheim with Dac.

Any opinions on this matter? I am willing to throw down max $500, but no more honestly.

I have K712 Pro and HD6xx on the way.

I do understand that balanced output is only +@ in some ways, and I might buy some in future if worth.

But I just want amp dac to be completely finished with after this purchase, and I may also buy speakers. Like famous JBL.

But for now, I will be using headphones most of the time.
Sound quality, benefits of balanced and such would be nice area to be covered.

Or even any other suggestion will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

PS. and what is that passive phono or something?


----------



## FrivolsListener

MorrisVentus said:


> I know this is impressions guide, but quick question.
> 
> I am currently tired of waiting for Modi 3, which is unlikely to come out any sooner I think. I am considering either:
> 1. Magni 3 and Modi Multibit
> ...



There's unlikely to be a Modi 3.  Modi Multibit is far and away the best in that form factor; far better than Jotunheim's DAC.

Therefore, if I were you, I'd go Magni 3/Modi Multibit.  Really good bang for the buck.


----------



## Cheffy (Nov 27, 2017)

I'm wondering if the Magni 3 would be a good option for me. 

I've been using the dragonfly black for my headphones (NAD Viso HP50, Brainwavz HM5s) and have found it has significantly improved my audio. But these are low impedance phones, so I run the volume on my computer pretty low (I raise the DFB volume to max, system volume down). I've also put in an order for SHP9500s, which are easy to drive, but would probably benefit from amping.

Now I'd like to set up a dedicated amp/DAC at home on my desktop like the Magni 3 (DAC undecided yet). Would it be a good choice if my headphones are all low impedance? I'm worried that even in low gain it might be a bit much. I'm strongly considering the massdrop O2 amp instead because it offers zero gain at low.  I might buy some harder to drive headphones in the future but probably the HD650 at most, which should be easily driven by the high gain on the O2 amp.

What other differences might I expect between the Magni 3 and the O2 amp in terms of sound - the O2 is supposed to be "clean", does the magni have a distinctive signature or is it too subtle to tell?


----------



## MorrisVentus

FrivolsListener said:


> There's unlikely to be a Modi 3.  Modi Multibit is far and away the best in that form factor; far better than Jotunheim's DAC.
> 
> Therefore, if I were you, I'd go Magni 3/Modi Multibit.  Really good bang for the buck.



Thank you for simple and concise feedback.

So Magni 3 with modi multibit, including RCA cable and shipping would be about 380~390.
Within that price range, we have NFB11 or R2R 11 as its competitor, in terms of price.

Any feedback on this one? Thank you.


----------



## FrivolsListener

MorrisVentus said:


> Thank you for simple and concise feedback.
> 
> So Magni 3 with modi multibit, including RCA cable and shipping would be about 380~390.
> Within that price range, we have NFB11 or R2R 11 as its competitor, in terms of price.
> ...



No knowledge, sorry.

Previous DACs of any significance were Schiit delta-sigma DACs (1 bit) and M-Audio prosumer ADC/DAC.  The multibit DACs from Schiit are far better.


----------



## Cer3lakIller

FrivolsListener said:


> No knowledge, sorry.
> 
> Previous DACs of any significance were Schiit delta-sigma DACs (1 bit) and M-Audio prosumer ADC/DAC.  The multibit DACs from Schiit are far better.



Reviews and Impresons of recognized audiophiles (kindly joking here) gave both nbf11 and r2r really good marks, for real those things from audiogd seem to be really nice in both subjects, dac and amp, watch the z reviews or some other reviews on YouTube, I'm getting  my hands on the 11 as soon as can.


----------



## FrivolsListener

Cer3lakIller said:


> Reviews and Impresons of recognized audiophiles (kindly joking here) gave both nbf11 and r2r really good marks, for real those things from audiogd seem to be really nice in both subjects, dac and amp, watch the z reviews or some other reviews on YouTube, I'm getting  my hands on the 11 as soon as can.



Are you going to get a Schiit multibit stack to compare them to?


----------



## Cer3lakIller

FrivolsListener said:


> Are you going to get a Schiit multibit stack to compare them to?


No, I already own a Sanskrit, a xonar DX old but trusty as medium reference line, and another decent audio interface for music production with some good enough dacs, a mica origen for portable, and some other cheaper ones that I dont use much, the combined  dac and amp from adg product might be endgame to me, hopefully, I do plane to order a magni 3 in the future if regular consent is that is good enough , but since I don't have any extremely hard to drive headphones im in no hurry


----------



## FrivolsListener

Cer3lakIller said:


> No, I already own a Sanskrit, a xonar DX old but trusty as medium reference line, and another decent audio interface for music production with some good enough dacs, a mica origen for portable, and some other cheaper ones that I dont use much, the combined  dac and amp from adg product might be endgame to me, hopefully, I do plane to order a magni 3 in the future if regular consent is that is good enough , but since I don't have any extremely hard to drive headphones im in no hurry



The multibit DAC is key.  Everyone else is getting their DAC chips from the usual suspects.  The multibit DACs are truly unique creations of @Baldr and stand apart.  I certainly like Schiit amps and their price/performance is out of sight, IMO, but the DACs are unique and can't be bought at any price elsewhere.


----------



## Cer3lakIller

FrivolsListener said:


> The multibit DAC is key.  Everyone else is getting their DAC chips from the usual suspects.  The multibit DACs are truly unique creations of @Baldr and stand apart.  I certainly like Schiit amps and their price/performance is out of sight, IMO, but the DACs are unique and can't be bought at any price elsewhere.


Yeh, I'm certainly sure it's an awesome equipment im just not that good at finding differences in sound quality from already good enough dacs to the outstanding all in megasuperduper techie ones, amps on the other hand I find more things to enjoy about theme, each one does it's own little coloring, crap I'm even thinking of geting a Loki mini with that magni 3, so u can make the impresión, I like things transparent in the dac and fun on the amp


----------



## FrivolsListener

Cer3lakIller said:


> Yeh, I'm certainly sure it's an awesome equipment im just not that good at finding differences in sound quality from already good enough dacs to the outstanding all in megasuperduper techie ones, amps on the other hand I find more things to enjoy about theme, each one does it's own little coloring, **** I'm even thinking of geting a Loki mini with that magni 3, so u can make the impresión, I like things transparent in the dac and fun on the amp



I can post a link that'll show you the difference.  It was what floored me.  And at $250, the modi multibit is a steal.

(no, I don't get a commission; I'm just an enthusiastic believer in what Schiit did.  Hearing was believing!)


----------



## Cer3lakIller

FrivolsListener said:


> I can post a link that'll show you the difference.  It was what floored me.  And at $250, the modi multibit is a steal.
> 
> (no, I don't get a commission; I'm just an enthusiastic believer in what Schiit did.  Hearing was believing!)


Jeje, okay men I'll take your word on it, but you know it's a hard on the pocket hobby


----------



## DavidA

FrivolsListener said:


> I can post a link that'll show you the difference.  It was what floored me.  And at $250, the modi multibit is a steal.
> 
> (no, I don't get a commission; I'm just an enthusiastic believer in what Schiit did.  Hearing was believing!)


Is the link to tracks that can show you the differences between DACs or just some reading with just charts and graphs to prove a point?


----------



## erics75

MorrisVentus said:


> I know this is impressions guide, but quick question.
> 
> I am currently tired of waiting for Modi 3, which is unlikely to come out any sooner I think. I am considering either:
> 1. Magni 3 and Modi Multibit
> ...


i wouldnt hold your breath on a modi 3 anytime soon (having said that i'm sure schiit will announce one tomorrow....), go with the modibit, it's exceptional. the magni 3 pairs well with your headphones so you're set. if you were to get a jotunheim, go amp only and get a modibit with it. either amp, get the modibit, it's awesome. i own all three and can say with the modibit doing dac duty, the differences between the m3 and jot are subtle. you really have to know your gear and music to appreciate the differences, as they're not smack you upside the head noticeable, at least to these old ears. the main difference between them is the jot is brighter and has more emphatic bass delivery. the m3 is smoother, more even toned, and makes nice with just about everything i've plugged into it. the jot tends to exacerbate bright headphones, like my th900. unless you know for sure you want that extra sparkle and extension up top, i'd say go m3, you wont be missing anything.


----------



## erics75

Cheffy said:


> I'm wondering if the Magni 3 would be a good option for me.
> 
> I've been using the dragonfly black for my headphones (NAD Viso HP50, Brainwavz HM5s) and have found it has significantly improved my audio. But these are low impedance phones, so I run the volume on my computer pretty low (I raise the DFB volume to max, system volume down). I've also put in an order for SHP9500s, which are easy to drive, but would probably benefit from amping.
> 
> ...


first, run your source (windows) at 100% volume and lower the amp volume, you'll get better performance. 

with the headphones you have, and are buying, i'd get something else. i just sold my hp50, but listened to it quite a bit with the magni 3 (m3), and even on low gain i had the volume really really low. it was total overkill, honestly. if you can grab a used grace m9xx or m900, that would be an awesome dac/amp combo for your setup. or even a schiit fulla 2. the o2 is another good option as well. if you have room for it, the good old asgard 2 would be a great amp as well. i found the gain much more reasonable on my old A2, i could plug in very efficient headphones on low gain and have lots of volume control without being at the bottom of the dail. it's class A though so it's HOT...


----------



## FrivolsListener

DavidA said:


> Is the link to tracks that can show you the differences between DACs or just some reading with just charts and graphs to prove a point?



It's a single track.  I'm trying not to break fair-use rules.  This particular track isn't famous, but it made me sit up and take notice since I know the album well.  The difference in how the tambourine sounds blew me away.

Here it is: http://www.pinewood-wireless.net/demo.flac


----------



## Cheffy

erics75 said:


> first, run your source (windows) at 100% volume and lower the amp volume, you'll get better performance.
> 
> with the headphones you have, and are buying, i'd get something else. i just sold my hp50, but listened to it quite a bit with the magni 3 (m3), and even on low gain i had the volume really really low. it was total overkill, honestly. if you can grab a used grace m9xx or m900, that would be an awesome dac/amp combo for your setup. or even a schiit fulla 2. the o2 is another good option as well. if you have room for it, the good old asgard 2 would be a great amp as well. i found the gain much more reasonable on my old A2, i could plug in very efficient headphones on low gain and have lots of volume control without being at the bottom of the dail. it's class A though so it's HOT...



Wow this is perfect, thanks for the response. JDL has free shipping right now and B-stock, so I think I'm going to go with the Objective O2 Amp and OL DAC.


----------



## kotomikun

FrivolsListener said:


> It's a single track.  I'm trying not to break fair-use rules.  This particular track isn't famous, but it made me sit up and take notice since I know the album well.  The difference in how the tambourine sounds blew me away.



A single track doesn't demonstrate anything unless they switch DACs at least once while playing it (otherwise the difference between that and some other copy of the song could be due to some other device, compression, volume, etc.). If they did that somewhere in there, I couldn't hear it. And even if it does sound different, it's not necessarily better... which would be fine, except multibit devices seem to cost at least $100 more than non-multibit ones. I haven't heard any fancy DACs yet, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but multibitness reeks of snake oil to me.

I bought a Topping D30, which should get here tomorrow, to see if it combined with a Magni 3 makes enough of an improvement to keep the pair of them, instead of just running an HD650 straight from my laptop. Measurements of that one seem good. Compared well to the ubiquitous ODAC. And it's half the price of the Modi-bit. (Also, the regular Modi seems to have some issues, and it's hard to say whether the multibit version does away with all of them.)


----------



## FrivolsListener

kotomikun said:


> A single track doesn't demonstrate anything unless they switch DACs at least once while playing it (otherwise the difference between that and some other copy of the song could be due to some other device, compression, volume, etc.). If they did that somewhere in there, I couldn't hear it. And even if it does sound different, it's not necessarily better... which would be fine, except multibit devices seem to cost at least $100 more than non-multibit ones. I haven't heard any fancy DACs yet, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but multibitness reeks of snake oil to me.
> 
> I bought a Topping D30, which should get here tomorrow, to see if it combined with a Magni 3 makes enough of an improvement to keep the pair of them, instead of just running an HD650 straight from my laptop. Measurements of that one seem good. Compared well to the ubiquitous ODAC. And it's half the price of the Modi-bit. (Also, the regular Modi seems to have some issues, and it's hard to say whether the multibit version does away with all of them.)



Are you serious?

You listen to the track.  You get to know it.  You switch DACs and listen again.

This track is what gave me the WOW! reaction to the multibit DACs.  As it turns out, Mike had used this album (this issue, this mastering) as a reference for one of the Theta Digital DACs.  

So pick your DAC.  Doesn't have to be Modi.  If it's a 1-bit delta-sigma DAC, this recording will show you a difference.  A big one.  All you have to do is listen.


----------



## kotomikun

I'm always serious. At least, that's what people tell me, but it's hard to tell whether they're being serious.

Anyway, I was assuming you were showing something like this recording of the output of a few "entry level" DACs, including the Modi Multibit, switching between the devices and a few different tracks. Which is a lot more useful to someone who doesn't already have a bunch of devices and fancy fast-switching equipment. Personally, I can't hear any differences, but I'm very much not a believer in most of this audiophile stuff, honestly.

(I'm sure you're going to tell me you need the actual devices to get their exact output, which is true to an extent; but if the cheaper devices produced unwanted artifacts or ruined the sound in some other way, that would show up in this sort of test.)


----------



## FrivolsListener

kotomikun said:


> (I'm sure you're going to tell me you need the actual devices to get their exact output, which is true to an extent; but if the cheaper devices produced unwanted artifacts or ruined the sound in some other way, that would show up in this sort of test.)



You're quite correct.  You wouldn't evaluate a color TV by watching a video of it on your color TV, would you?

The Modi Multibit is pretty damn cheap and therefore easy to evaluate.  It's also pretty easy to return if you don't like it (you lose a 5% restocking fee or something like that to "borrow" it to try it out).

Try it.  Try a friend's. Or just copy the link in case you get a chance to try one down the road.  If cassettes and CDs sound identical to you, or you consider Apple earbuds to be high end audio, you won't hear a difference.  But if you are more discerning than that, then _maybe, just maybe_ you'll hear a difference.

I can't speak to the solder splatter on the Modi in the link you provided.  Not pretty, but no solder bridges.


----------



## kotomikun

$250 plus tax and shipping for a more convoluted version of a relatively simple electronic device that's already in every computer and smartphone--except the ones with no headphone jack, those cram the same device inside a cable adapter--isn't what I would call cheap. Admittedly, it's a lot cheaper than their $2200 DAC-box the size of a printer, but that's a whole other level of ridiculous. 

And, as I said, while you obviously can't hear exactly what some piece of gear sounds like without having it in front of you, a recording of its output should still show a _difference_ between boxes... if there is a difference. If some of them do a measurably worse job, you should hear an effect even on a subpar system, analogous to lossy compression performed multiple times instead of only once. Heck, you could even route the output through the device again, to amplify the differences, make them more obvious.

I don't want to drag out the quadrillionth rehash of "audiophile equipment is a scam" versus "anyone who can't hear the nuanced disctinctions between this $100 brick and this larger $1000 brick is a philistine." When the DAC counterpart to my Magni gets here I can tell you what difference I think it makes, if any. If it's not substantial I'm sending them both back, and you can believe whatever you like about my inability to hear things.


----------



## DavidA

kotomikun said:


> I'm always serious. At least, that's what people tell me, but it's hard to tell whether they're being serious.
> 
> Anyway, I was assuming you were showing something like this recording of the output of a few "entry level" DACs, including the Modi Multibit, switching between the devices and a few different tracks. Which is a lot more useful to someone who doesn't already have a bunch of devices and fancy fast-switching equipment. Personally, I can't hear any differences, but I'm very much not a believer in most of this audiophile stuff, honestly.
> 
> (I'm sure you're going to tell me you need the actual devices to get their exact output, which is true to an extent; but if the cheaper devices produced unwanted artifacts or ruined the sound in some other way, that would show up in this sort of test.)





kotomikun said:


> I'm always serious. At least, that's what people tell me, but it's hard to tell whether they're being serious.
> 
> Anyway, I was assuming you were showing something like this recording of the output of a few "entry level" DACs, including the Modi Multibit, switching between the devices and a few different tracks. Which is a lot more useful to someone who doesn't already have a bunch of devices and fancy fast-switching equipment. Personally, I can't hear any differences, but I'm very much not a believer in most of this audiophile stuff, honestly.
> 
> (I'm sure you're going to tell me you need the actual devices to get their exact output, which is true to an extent; but if the cheaper devices produced unwanted artifacts or ruined the sound in some other way, that would show up in this sort of test.)





FrivolsListener said:


> Are you serious?
> 
> You listen to the track.  You get to know it.  You switch DACs and listen again.
> 
> ...


First, thanks for the link since I'm always looking for way to evaluate gear.

Tried the track out with my Bimby, UD-301, Modi2uber and old Bifrost Uber, its not a great track to me since there is not much in the way of giving clues to sound stage, layering of instruments and aside from cymbals/high hats there is not much to judge the timber of wood instruments like a well recorded/mastered large orchestra track or a live jazz/blues trio/quartet.
While I do notice a difference between my 4 DACs the differences are very small and it also depends on the headphone used and not easily noticed.  With the track "so far away" I wouldn't call it a good "test" track.  FWIW I even got my GF to do the switching between DACs and while I have returned my friends Magni3 I used my BH Crack with HD800 and HD650, Ember with EL-8 and Ypsilon R1.


----------



## FrivolsListener

DavidA said:


> First, thanks for the link since I'm always looking for way to evaluate gear.
> 
> Tried the track out with my Bimby, UD-301, Modi2uber and old Bifrost Uber, its not a great track to me since there is not much in the way of giving clues to sound stage, layering of instruments and aside from cymbals/high hats there is not much to judge the timber of wood instruments like a well recorded/mastered large orchestra track or a live jazz/blues trio/quartet.
> While I do notice a difference between my 4 DACs the differences are very small and it also depends on the headphone used and not easily noticed.  With the track "so far away" I wouldn't call it a good "test" track.  FWIW I even got my GF to do the switching between DACs and while I have returned my friends Magni3 I used my BH Crack with HD800 and HD650, Ember with EL-8 and Ypsilon R1.



Well, it worked for me.  I would certainly be interested in other suggestions.  @Baldr , do you have any test tracks that work?


----------



## FrivolsListener (Nov 28, 2017)

kotomikun said:


> $250 plus tax and shipping for a more convoluted version of a relatively simple electronic device that's already in every computer and smartphone--except the ones with no headphone jack, those cram the same device inside a cable adapter--isn't what I would call cheap. Admittedly, it's a lot cheaper than their $2200 DAC-box the size of a printer, but that's a whole other level of ridiculous.



Well, that's the thing.  It isn't the same as a phone DAC.  Now, if you can't tell a phone DAC from a regular Modi, then, yes, you should probably not proceed any further and save yourself the money.  What's in the Modi Multibit (and in all the multibits with variations on parts, parts count, and programming) are industrial DACs.  The one used in the Modi Multibit, the Analog Devices AD5547, lists as $18 each in bulk quantity.  The filters aren't off the shelf -- they're running Schiit's firmware using an AD8512.  (Part numbers from Schiit's page.) 

The point is, we're talking about a whole other animal than what's in your cell phone.

But the thing is, if you can't tell a cell phone DAC from another, not even very INexpensive one (Like a Modi 2 or a Fulla 2), then don't worry about it and enjoy your cell phone audio.  But, fair warning -- this is probably not the sort of place you'll find people with the same taste.


----------



## FrivolsListener

DavidA said:


> First, thanks for the link since I'm always looking for way to evaluate gear.
> 
> Tried the track out with my Bimby, UD-301, Modi2uber and old Bifrost Uber, its not a great track to me since there is not much in the way of giving clues to sound stage, layering of instruments and aside from cymbals/high hats there is not much to judge the timber of wood instruments like a well recorded/mastered large orchestra track or a live jazz/blues trio/quartet.
> While I do notice a difference between my 4 DACs the differences are very small and it also depends on the headphone used and not easily noticed.  With the track "so far away" I wouldn't call it a good "test" track.  FWIW I even got my GF to do the switching between DACs and while I have returned my friends Magni3 I used my BH Crack with HD800 and HD650, Ember with EL-8 and Ypsilon R1.



I guess I should say again that what I focused on was the tambourine.  It jumped out as very clear and natural sounding with the multibit.


----------



## AxelCloris

Let's please bring the topic of discussion back to the Magni 3. Thanks everyone.


----------



## HoneysPoohBear

Quick question.... 
Do you prefer low or high gain settings with Magni 3 and AKG K712s?


----------



## joasjoas

Recommend Magni 3 for DT 990 600 ohm. Better than O2, + ODAC. My use will be for PC. For now use DAC the Xonar DGX


----------



## volikovvv (Dec 3, 2017)

del


----------



## Renato Fury

How do you remove rubber feet ?


----------



## ScOgLiO

Renato Fury said:


> How do you remove rubber feet ?



Not sure you can: they're built in and are not the usual stick-on feet


----------



## Renato Fury

ScOgLiO said:


> Not sure you can: they're built in and are not the usual stick-on feet


It's because I intend to buy the RCA connector from Introprose, the one from the photo below:





Except that the feet of Magni 3 are different and the vendor of this connector is making available the feet of the previous versions so that the Magni is aligned with the Modi, but I do not know how to remove the feet of the Magni 3 and put the feet of the previous version.


----------



## Renato Fury

How many centimeters does the Magni 3 have in height, width and length ?


----------



## yangian

How about Magni 3 compared with Massdrop CTH for HD600?


----------



## Renato Fury

yangian said:


> How about Magni 3 compared with Massdrop CTH for HD600?


When it starts to be distributed the reviews have come up, so even that question will go unanswered.


----------



## redryder

Hi guys, I was thinking of getting the Magni 3 to replace my portable dac/amp setup. Unfortunately that would mean I’d need to use a 3.5mm to rca cable to connect the phone to the Magni. 

I then looked at the modi2 as a dac, but it draws power from the phone. Not an ideal solution either. 

3rd option is to look for a DAP with line out but that would likely cost more than the Magni+modi combined. 

What do you guys suggest?


----------



## SomeTechNoob (Dec 4, 2017)

Fulla 2 instead of modi 2?  Then you can use aux input while the fulla gets powered by a usb ac adapter.  Or you can plug fulla 2 directly to your phone via otg and also use secondary power for less power draw.

Add a Magni 3 and you are good to go.


----------



## Left Channel

Renato Fury said:


> It's because I intend to buy the RCA connector from Introprose, the one from the photo below:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can probably remove the feet by pulling with needle nose pliers. The feet are likely held in by little push-in "mushrooms".  Let us know what you see after you pull them out. 

Older models had stick-on feet, and the heat those units generate sometimes melts the glue. But with that connector in place yours probably won't be moving around much, so the new feet will likely stay put.


----------



## Left Channel

redryder said:


> Hi guys, I was thinking of getting the Magni 3 to replace my portable dac/amp setup. Unfortunately that would mean I’d need to use a 3.5mm to rca cable to connect the phone to the Magni.
> 
> I then looked at the modi2 as a dac, but it draws power from the phone. Not an ideal solution either.
> 
> ...



The Magni's RCA inputs are meant for line-level signals, not an amplified signal from your headphone jack. Sending the signal first to a DAC (connected to your phone with a USB OTG cable) is the way to go. 

Yes a Modi 2 would draw power from your phone, but a Modi 2 Uber and Multibit would be powered by an external wall-wart. Those two do draw a little power from the phone to detect it, but not much. So I'd look only at the 2U or Multibit.

If that doesn't work for you, before buying a separate DAP I suggest you compare the many non-Schiit portable DAC/amps that can be carried around with your phone, from the AudioQuest DragonFly to the McIntosh MHA50.


----------



## 439598 (Dec 4, 2017)

Did anyone of you upgrade to Magni2/3 from a more weaker amp like the O2? if so did you notice much of a difference?

I finished a building a 'Heed Canamp' clone, its an old headphone amp that was released around 2007, regarded as pretty good at the time but seems extremely overpriced at $400 now with things like magni 3...

I definitely prefer it compared to my O2 with he400i's, has that head bobbing sound now and I can truly enjoy them (overdriven guitars finally sound right), but I dont know if its the increased power that is making the difference or the amp istelf.
its only around double the power of O2 while the magni 3 is even more powerful than that, I'd say I spent more on the project than the Magni3!

It was a fun project but it just feels like waste of time if all I needed was more power which the magni 3 gives for less and without the effort.


----------



## Renato Fury

Left Channel said:


> You can probably remove the feet by pulling with needle nose pliers. The feet are likely held in by little push-in "mushrooms".  Let us know what you see after you pull them out.
> 
> Older models had stick-on feet, and the heat those units generate sometimes melts the glue. But with that connector in place yours probably won't be moving around much, so the new feet will likely stay put.


Thanks for the help but I decided to use a mini rack:


----------



## ScOgLiO

That looks very sweet!
I would just make sure to leave a bit of clearance between Magni's top and the glass just above it, for air ventilation. Other than that, it looks like a nice idea!


----------



## Renato Fury

For those interested in this mini rack, this is the store link:
https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/HIFI...-2149-40c5-a0ed-291c003979a2&rmStoreLevelAB=2


----------



## DavidA

Acke said:


> Did anyone of you upgrade to Magni2/3 from a more weaker amp like the O2? if so did you notice much of a difference?
> 
> I finished a building a 'Heed Canamp' clone, its an old headphone amp that was released around 2007, regarded as pretty good at the time but seems extremely overpriced at $400 now with things like magni 3...
> 
> ...


I don't think its the increase in power that is the difference but the basic sound signatures of the amps designs.  While I haven't heard your amp I've compared the O2 to the Magni3 and your description of the sound from your HE400i and O2 pairing is what I heard also, lacks bass, rather thin over all sound and sometimes harsh in the highs.  The Magni3 to me is slightly on the warmer side and a decent/good pairing for the HE400i and other headphones that can be considered slightly bright.


----------



## 439598

DavidA said:


> I don't think its the increase in power that is the difference but the basic sound signatures of the amps designs.  While I haven't heard your amp I've compared the O2 to the Magni3 and your description of the sound from your HE400i and O2 pairing is what I heard also, lacks bass, rather thin over all sound and sometimes harsh in the highs.  The Magni3 to me is slightly on the warmer side and a decent/good pairing for the HE400i and other headphones that can be considered slightly bright.


thanks for the reply, I would have never have bought the O2 if I had known how different solid state amps could be, the general impression I was given is that all SS sounded the same with slight difference in how they sound when pushed to their limits. Really nice to know this amazing new sound is my from my homemade amp's unique circuitry and not just the extra watts


----------



## c-techdx (Dec 5, 2017)

Hey guys, anyone has experience using multiple drivers iem with magni 3? I want an amp for my Xtreme Ears XE4 custom iem, i heard older versions of magni was too strong for IEMs. This New version 3 is a good choice for IEMs? Thanks


----------



## UNOE

What is the recommended input voltage?


----------



## RickB

UNOE said:


> What is the recommended input voltage?



Schiit DACs' output is 2V, except for the entry-level Modi which is 1.5V. (IIRC)


----------



## theintroprose

Renato Fury said:


> Modi, but I do not know how to remove the feet of the Magni 3 and put the feet of the previous version.[/SIZE]


Hi Renato.. I include the original feet with every order of the connector. You should not have to remove the original Magni 3 feet. I have had users report success by just gluing (the previous version feet have self adhesive) next to the original Magni 3 feet. This way should you want to return your Magni 3 to the original stock condition all you have to do is remove the glued on feet I supplied.


----------



## Porkyan

How do the magni 3 w/ modi 2 compare to the nfb 11.28


----------



## Rodmunch

Quick impression so far...I've only had the Magni 3 for a couple weeks and used it briefly...

The treble of my T90 has been noticeably improved.  I used to wince during some songs at moderate volume due to the treble when using the Magni 2U, not so with Magni 3.  The treble is definitely less harsh and less grainy.  

I use it with a Modi Multibit.  I will try it out with my HD6XX and PM3 soon.


----------



## Renato Fury

Does anyone know how many centimeters the RCA PYST of Schiit have ?


----------



## DavidA

Renato Fury said:


> Does anyone know how many centimeters the RCA PYST of Schiit have ?


The cable length between the RCA plugs is 18.5cm


----------



## Renato Fury

DavidA said:


> The cable length between the RCA plugs is 18.5cm


Only 18.5 cm from end to end ? In the photos it looks bigger, and how much height, width and length does the Magni have ?


----------



## DavidA

Renato Fury said:


> Only 18.5 cm from end to end ? In the photos it looks bigger, and how much height, width and length does the Magni have ?


Its made to go between a modi stacked under a magni so its more than long enough and measurement of magni are: Size: 5 x 3.5 x 1.25” (from schiit site)


----------



## kotomikun

Continuing the saga of "do I think the Magni 3 does anything," with a couple of new devices, I can now confirm that it definitely does! Though not in the ways I would have expected.

I got an HD579, theoretically as an extra headphone or gift or something (sale-priced). It has unexpectedly taught me the meaning of the term "bass bloat." It sounds decent out of a phone/computer, but with a noticeable excessive warmth, if that's the right word, that seems to blur over the rest of the music somewhat. Plugging it into the Magni fixes the issue, pushing the bass more into the background where it belongs. A very obvious difference.

Interestingly, the effect on my HD650 still seems less obvious, and also completely different--the bass is increased a little, if anything, and overall it seems a bit more detailed and "aggressive." Both of which are good things, since it never had the bass-bloat issue. I'm using it with a JDS OL DAC now, which may account for some of the differences, but I don't see how a DAC could be reducing the bass on one headphone and increasing it on another, so credit presumably goes to the Magni for that. (Quick test from bypassing the DAC, just computer -> Magni -> HD579, seems to confirm that assumption.)

As a weird side-note, there seems to be some faint electronic jitter (sounds like erratic high-pitched blips) trickling through my computer and amp to the headphones... but only when the amp is off, and my laptop is on and plugged into an outlet. Even stranger, it can propagate through USB into an _unplugged_ DAC, then through RCA cables, through the switched-off amp, all the way to the headphones. It's very faint (unaffected by the volume knob) and disappears when the amp is on, so I doubt it's going to hurt anything, but pretty spooky. Someone with actual electrical-engineering knowledge may understand what's happening there...?


----------



## Left Channel (Dec 14, 2017)

[Deleted as too distracting. See my next reply. The following post gave me another clue pointing us towards a possible no-cost fix.]


----------



## kotomikun (Dec 11, 2017)

Admittedly, I did kinda expect the response to be "buy yet another $100+ piece of hardware." Even though Schiit's own website tells you the Wyrd is just an overpriced USB hub...?

Everything I've read indicated that an externally-powered DAC should not have those sorts of problems, which is why I got one of those. This seems to be something a bit more bizarre than normal USB issues, whatever those are, since it only happens when the laptop itself is plugged in. But more to the point, the volume of this sound is on the level of "mosquito on the wall scratching an itch" and since I can't hear it with the amp on (for whatever reason), it's hard to imagine how it could be a _noticeable_ issue. (Unplugging the laptop while audio is playing has no effect that I can hear.)

Anyway, I think this amount of stuff is more than enough for me, at least for the time being. It's been an interesting project, and this setup is certainly much better than my old monitor headphones, but I only have so much budget for marginal quality improvements; there are many other things in life that cost money.


----------



## Left Channel (Dec 11, 2017)

@kotomikun I hope that was useful background information anyway. You may also be able to remove the problem by ensuring your laptop and your Schiit are plugged into the same electrical outlet (and surge protector), and if that doesn't work then experimenting with various other power configurations. That way your equipment won't be connected in a ground loop —  which sometimes pulls in high-pitched noises, not just a "hum" — and then whatever's coming from your laptop may be grounded before it gets to your Magni. The fact that the noise goes away when you switch on the Magni may indicate that it is grounding it, which is what I meant by neutralizing. Yes there is always, as you say, yet another piece of hardware for these problems. But just rearranging the wiring may help.


----------



## erich6 (Dec 12, 2017)

MixMasterMan said:


> I mentioned that the magni 2 was compressed. It is. That's what I meant. Quieter elements in the audio are pushed forward. It gives you the initial impression of hearing more detail, but it's actually decreased dynamic range. Like someone slapped a compressor on the signal. Again, I don't know if the magni 3 does the same thing. Apparently, it doesn't.



I recently purchased the Magni 3 and tried it over the last couple of days paired to my HA-2SE DAC and my HD-6XX headphones.  Sadly, I'm underwhelmed.  The amp has less authority than the amp section of the HA-2SE, my FiiO portable E12, and definitely much less authority than the cheap Nobsound NS-08E.  I agree with the "compressed" description here (it seems the amp saps dynamic range out of the music).  The tonality is fine though the bass is a bit suppressed.  There is plenty of clarity and the amp didn't affect the soundstage coming from my source.  Overall I'm disappointed so I'm planning to send it back.


----------



## sennsay

erich6 said:


> I recently purchased the Magni 3 and tried it over the last couple of days paired to my HA-2SE DAC and my HD-6XX headphones.  Sadly, I'm underwhelmed.  The amp has less authority than the amp section of the HA-2SE, my FiiO portable E12, and definitely much less authority than the cheap Nobsound NS-08E.  I agree with the "compressed" description here (it seems the amp saps dynamic range out of the music).  The tonality is fine though the bass is a bit suppressed.  There is plenty of clarity and the amp didn't affect the soundstage coming from my source.  Overall I'm disappointed so I'm planning to send it back.


Why would you send it back so soon? It hasn't even begun to really be run in yet. I run mine from iTunes on a MacBook Pro, Kimber USB into MusicStreamerII+, short silver cables into the Magni 3 with HifiMAN HE400S and have loads of dynamic range. Beautiful micro dynamics as well as layers of sound. I love this little amp! Mind you the HE400S has a more open and transparent cable created for me by a StereoNet member in OZ and the essential Focus pads. I've had my Magni 3 about a month now and I can find nothing to complain about, of the amps I have here the M3 is the best with the HE400S. 
 I DO understand "each to his or her own" though, it just seems to me you may not be giving it the best chance to show it's worth. Just a thought, really.


----------



## erich6

sennsay said:


> Why would you send it back so soon?



Admittedly I’m judging based on initial impressions. How much burn-in do you recommend?


----------



## sennsay (Dec 12, 2017)

erich6 said:


> Admittedly I’m judging based on initial impressions. How much burn-in do you recommend?


My own experience showed several days was needed before the bass started to really lose that blandness, initially I had a few "hmm" moments too, but knew from over 40+ years of experience to give it a good chance to come into it's own and trust the guys from Schiit too, they're just not going to put out .... um ... the other kind of Schiit, not even at this price. So I ran mine 'hot', sometimes with a load on and music running and occasionally for a few hours just keeping warm. I am so glad I did! After a couple of weeks quite often just listening to YouTubes and a few tracks here and there, the M3 just opened out, the bass became taut and transparent - the new HE400S cables easily showed that - and I just love those detailed yet not forward highs that seem to extend out with really fine ambience even at low levels. Midrange clarity is superb! Suits me to a T, might not be your cuppa tea though  It's definitely not a 'bright' amp. I find it to be the most evenly balanced amp I've owned over the years. Schiit say it's really just a small version of the 100W Vidar amp, so I'm picking the Vidar could be pretty impressive. I've got a pair of Massdrop HD6XX headphones lined up and I'm really looking forward to hearing them on this amp!


----------



## PointyFox

It sounds like a solid-state amp to me. All it does is increase the volume of the signal coming in. It doesn't burn in or change the frequency response, which is good.  What's important is how loud it can make headphones, and it can make my HD800S more than loud enough, even at low gain.


----------



## MixMasterMan

erich6 said:


> Admittedly I’m judging based on initial impressions. How much burn-in do you recommend?



Don't buy into the solid-state "burn in" myth/placebo. The amp's sound is not going to change. Only your perception of it.


----------



## sennsay

It's no myth with me, in over 40 years I've heard some astonishing changes. Won't go any further on the topic as some folks can be quite judgmental, verging on agro, enough posts have been removed with this off-topic subject already . Burn in or not, take your pick and go by experience, my own Magni 3 improved noticeably over a couple of weeks, if not as much as _some_ headphones and cables I've owned. It's worth giving it a week or two before just selling it off, erich6, then at least you will know for yourself that nothing's changed for you and the M3.


----------



## DavidA

erich6 said:


> I recently purchased the Magni 3 and tried it over the last couple of days paired to my HA-2SE DAC and my HD-6XX headphones.  Sadly, I'm underwhelmed.  The amp has less authority than the amp section of the HA-2SE, my FiiO portable E12, and definitely much less authority than the cheap Nobsound NS-08E.  I agree with the "compressed" description here (it seems the amp saps dynamic range out of the music).  The tonality is fine though the bass is a bit suppressed.  There is plenty of clarity and the amp didn't affect the soundstage coming from my source.  Overall I'm disappointed so I'm planning to send it back.


I'd send them back since no amount of so called burn-in will alter the sound to the extent that you want but you might think there is some due to brain burn-in, or getting used to the sound as some say.  FWIW the Magni3 is a great amp but its not one I would use/recommend with the HD6XX since both are a bit on the warmer side of neutral IMO.  If there is anything the HD6XX would benefit from is an amp with a higher output impedance, its why most like to use an OTL (BH Crack or similar) amp since the output impedance for most OTL amps is usually much higher than any SS amp but the draw back is that they don't usually sound good with low impedance headphones / planar headphone due to the high output impedance.  Also, your HA-2SE is a decent/good portable amp so I would have been more surprised if you did hear a big difference.


----------



## sennsay

DavidA said:


> I'd send them back since no amount of so called burn-in will alter the sound to the extent that you want but you might think there is some due to brain burn-in, or getting used to the sound as some say.  FWIW the Magni3 is a great amp but its not one I would use/recommend with the HD6XX since both are a bit on the warmer side of neutral IMO.  If there is anything the HD6XX would benefit from is an amp with a higher output impedance, its why most like to use an OTL (BH Crack or similar) amp since the output impedance for most OTL amps is usually much higher than any SS amp but the draw back is that they don't usually sound good with low impedance headphones / planar headphone due to the high output impedance.  Also, your HA-2SE is a decent/good portable amp so I would have been more surprised if you did hear a big difference.


Ok, good to get a little extra info on the HD6XX scenario. It will certainly be interesting to hear how they sound with the M3 and the Valhalla 2. Certainly the V2, even with the better input tubes, doesn't sound quite as vibrant and alive as with the Magni 3 and HE400S.


----------



## DavidA

sennsay said:


> Ok, good to get a little extra info on the HD6XX scenario. It will certainly be interesting to hear how they sound with the M3 and the Valhalla 2. Certainly the V2, even with the better input tubes, doesn't sound quite as vibrant and alive as with the Magni 3 and HE400S.


There are some slight differences between the HD6XX and HD650 with the HD6XX being slightly lower impedance in some areas than the HD650 so this affects the sound a little and its not only me that notices this but a few other in the HD50 thread also noticed it.  FWIW I thing the Magni3 did a pretty good job of driving a HE560, HD700 and a T1 and its basically why my friend got the Magni3 for as a temporary solution until the CTH and LCX ship and will evaluate all 3 and only keep one for his office.  I haven't heard a HE400S in a long time but I do remember it being laid back like the HD650 but with a better low end and quite easy to drive as they sounded decent/good on almost all gear.  The HE400i being a touch on the bright side would be another that I think would be great with the Magni3 but it will also depend on what other headphones the person has, its one of the main reasons I like the Garage 1217 amps with the adjustable output impedance.


----------



## sennsay

DavidA said:


> There are some slight differences between the HD6XX and HD650 with the HD6XX being slightly lower impedance in some areas than the HD650 so this affects the sound a little and its not only me that notices this but a few other in the HD50 thread also noticed it.  FWIW I thing the Magni3 did a pretty good job of driving a HE560, HD700 and a T1 and its basically why my friend got the Magni3 for as a temporary solution until the CTH and LCX ship and will evaluate all 3 and only keep one for his office.  I haven't heard a HE400S in a long time but I do remember it being laid back like the HD650 but with a better low end and quite easy to drive as they sounded decent/good on almost all gear.  The HE400i being a touch on the bright side would be another that I think would be great with the Magni3 but it will also depend on what other headphones the person has, its one of the main reasons I like the Garage 1217 amps with the adjustable output impedance.


Yes, the stock HE400S is a little laid back, a touch soft in the lower bass too. My new cables and the Focus pads have removed virtually all traces of that, adding sheer impact, detail focus in all areas and transparency, quite an upgrade. They are also more comfortable now and I've been having longer sessions with the Magni 3, a superb combo. I'm hearing details in vocal diction and effortless ambient cues I'd completely missed before or just found difficult to hear into, Joe Newman's unique style (from alt-J) being a good case in point, I can hear the French phrases sung with really rather good diction now.


----------



## c-techdx (Dec 13, 2017)

Please, someone had experience using  BA Drivers IEM with Magni 3? Is this a good choice? Is there a good volume control for low impedance IEMs? I really want to buy one but I would like to hear some impressions first. Thanks


----------



## kendosperling

i just tried my fibae 2s which are 113dB/7.1 Ohm. I could use them but volume control is minimal. maybe between 7.00 and 7.30 on a clock


----------



## sennsay (Dec 14, 2017)

kendosperling said:


> i just tried my fibae 2s which are 113dB/7.1 Ohm. I could use them but volume control is minimal. maybe between 7.00 and 7.30 on a clock


You know there's a gain switch on the back of the amp, right? Just switch it to low and try again ..... if you haven't already


----------



## kendosperling

i know and i did tested with low gain....the statement stays. Its working but you have to be very careful with the volume knob


----------



## sennsay

kendosperling said:


> i know and i did tested with low gain....the statement stays. Its working but you have to be very careful with the volume knob


You've done what you can then ....... unless you pop some loading plugs into the back amp. Those are very efficient monitors or headphones!


----------



## c-techdx

kendosperling said:


> i just tried my fibae 2s which are 113dB/7.1 Ohm. I could use them but volume control is minimal. maybe between 7.00 and 7.30 on a clock



Really, 7:30? Even in low gain? 7.1ohm is very low... hope my 25ohms iem will give a better control using with magni 3. Anyone else have experience using low impedance IEMs with magni 3? Would like to have more impressions. 

Thanks


----------



## erich6

Thanks for all the helpful responses.  I tested the Magni 3 with my Meze 99 Classics last night and it performed very well. Plenty of power at low gain had to keep the knob around 8-9 o'clock.  Music sounded great.  

So now I'm wondering if there's some defect with my Magni 3 that causes it to "clamp down" on the output signal when loaded with a high-impedance headphone.  I know the high impedance naturally means I have to give more juice to my headphone and that the Meze is an easy to drive headphone but with my other amps the difference between the Meze 99 and the HD6XX is not as dramatic as what I'm getting with the Magni 3.  I just can't get enough out of the Magni to drive the HD6xx and given how well it does with the Meze it should scale better than what I'm getting.  Also, given others here have reported good performance with their HD650/6XX I'm again wondering if there is a specific defect with mine. 

What do you think?


----------



## callumrd1

erich6 said:


> Thanks for all the helpful responses.  I tested the Magni 3 with my Meze 99 Classics last night and it performed very well. Plenty of power at low gain had to keep the knob around 8-9 o'clock.  Music sounded great.
> 
> So now I'm wondering if there's some defect with my Magni 3 that causes it to "clamp down" on the output signal when loaded with a high-impedance headphone.  I know the high impedance naturally means I have to give more juice to my headphone and that the Meze is an easy to drive headphone but with my other amps the difference between the Meze 99 and the HD6XX is not as dramatic as what I'm getting with the Magni 3.  I just can't get enough out of the Magni to drive the HD6xx and given how well it does with the Meze it should scale better than what I'm getting.  Also, given others here have reported good performance with their HD650/6XX I'm again wondering if there is a specific defect with mine.
> 
> What do you think?




I run my HD650s with my Magni 3 on low gain and the knob between 11:00 and 1:00. I haven't seen a need to even try high gain mode yet. I'm quite surprised that you can't get enough power for your HD6XXs.


----------



## crazychile

callumrd1 said:


> I run my HD650s with my Magni 3 on low gain and the knob between 11:00 and 1:00. I haven't seen a need to even try high gain mode yet. I'm quite surprised that you can't get enough power for your HD6XXs.



Same here. '650's on low gain on my office rig. I'm never over 10:00 for medium office friendly levels.


----------



## Renato Fury

I read somewhere that Magni 3 has more power than Asgard 2, is it true ?


----------



## callumrd1

Yes, it is more powerful. The specs are on Schiit’s site.


----------



## Renato Fury

callumrd1 said:


> Yes, it is more powerful. The specs are on Schiit’s site.


Yes I had seen it, but if Magni 3 is more powerful then why would someone pay $ 250 for Asgard 2, what does it offer that Magni 3 does not offer to justify this price ?


----------



## yangian

Renato Fury said:


> Yes I had seen it, but if Magni 3 is more powerful then why would someone pay $ 250 for Asgard 2, what does it offer that Magni 3 does not offer to justify this price ?



I saw someone sold Asgard 2 claimed A2 is better than M3.


----------



## Renato Fury

yangian said:


> I saw someone sold Asgard 2 claimed A2 is better than M3.


Better how ?


----------



## yangian

Renato Fury said:


> Better how ?



Don't know


----------



## trellus

callumrd1 said:


> I run my HD650s with my Magni 3 on low gain and the knob between 11:00 and 1:00. I haven't seen a need to even try high gain mode yet. I'm quite surprised that you can't get enough power for your HD6XXs.



Wow, I have to use high gain and regularly am at 12:00.


----------



## Alcophone

Renato Fury said:


> Yes I had seen it, but if Magni 3 is more powerful then why would someone pay $ 250 for Asgard 2, what does it offer that Magni 3 does not offer to justify this price ?


Asgard 2 is pure class A, which some prefer. It has a bigger case, therefore a bigger volume knob, and doesn't need a wall wart.
Vali 2 also costs more than Magni 3 and has less power, but is a tube hybrid amp, which, again, some prefer.


----------



## Renato Fury

Alcophone said:


> Asgard 2 is pure class A, which some prefer. It has a bigger case, therefore a bigger volume knob, and doesn't need a wall wart.
> Vali 2 also costs more than Magni 3 and has less power, but is a tube hybrid amp, which, again, some prefer.


So not worth buying A2.


----------



## Alcophone

Renato Fury said:


> So not worth buying A2.


As long as it has enough power, fits where you want to put it, and isn't outside your budget, that's impossible to say without trying it. Good thing Schiit has a rather good return policy.


----------



## Renato Fury

Alcophone said:


> As long as it has enough power, fits where you want to put it, and isn't outside your budget, that's impossible to say without trying it. Good thing Schiit has a rather good return policy.


It's not about money or space, it's a matter of logic, it's stupid to spend 150% more on something that does not treat benefits in sound just because of construction.


----------



## Alcophone

Renato Fury said:


> It's not about money or space, it's a matter of logic, it's stupid to spend 150% more on something that does not treat benefits in sound just because of construction.


Maybe so. And how do you know it doesn't "treat benefits in sound", again? What sounds better is subjective. You haven't tried it. So you don't know.


----------



## DavidA (Dec 17, 2017)

Renato Fury said:


> It's not about money or space, it's a matter of logic, it's stupid to spend 150% more on something that does not treat benefits in sound just because of construction.


The sound signature of the Asgard2 and Magni3 are different and how they react to different headphones is also due to the design of the amps.  While the Magni3 has more power its not a pure class A amp which along with different output impedance which may or may not make a difference depending on the headphone.  The larger case is needed since the A2 gets hot while the Magni3 just gets a little warm.  While I didn't compare them directly the Magni3 is the warmer sounding of the two and its easy to notice with the HD650 while the A2 is neutral to slightly bright like a Jot.  So for the HD650 I prefer the Asgard2 over the Magni3, but if I wanted to drive a HD700, HD800 or T1 I'd go with the Magni3 over the Asgard2 but the Magni3 is still not a good amp for the HD700, HD800 or T1.


----------



## erich6

trellus said:


> Wow, I have to use high gain and regularly am at 12:00.



Me too...and even then it's missing some dynamics (on mine).  I sent a note to Schiit and see if there is additional troubleshooting I can do.  Otherwise I believe they will have to take a look at my amp and see if it is defective.


----------



## treecloud (Dec 17, 2017)

crazychile said:


> Same here. '650's on low gain on my office rig. I'm never over 10:00 for medium office friendly levels.





trellus said:


> Wow, I have to use high gain and regularly am at 12:00.





erich6 said:


> Me too...and even then it's missing some dynamics (on mine).  I sent a note to Schiit and see if there is additional troubleshooting I can do.  Otherwise I believe they will have to take a look at my amp and see if it is defective.



Something missing in this conversation is system interaction. What is the gain of the device driving the Magni 3? It's a huge variable on loudness of downstream amplification devices. But has little to nothing to do with the power capacity of that device. Impedance differences between components is another potential variable, but not usually significant in well designed line level devices. It's easy to conflate and confuse power output capability and loudness based on where the volume control knob is set, but it's not that simple. The best idea is to forget where the level control is set and instead ask yourself "am I hearing clipping compression"? If you are not hearing it the device is very likely still well within it's "clean" power output capability.


----------



## trellus

treecloud said:


> Something missing in this conservation is system interaction. What is the gain of the device driving the Magni 3? It's a huge variable on loudness of downstream amplification devices. But has little to nothing to do with the power capacity of that device. Impedance differences between components is another potential variable, but not usually significant in well designed line level devices. It's easy to conflate and confuse power output capability and loudness based on where the volume control knob is set, but it's not that simple. The best idea is to forget where the level control is set and instead ask yourself "am I hearing clipping compression"? If you are not hearing it the device is very likely still well within it's "clean" power output capability.



I commented on it earlier in this thread and reported that my Magni 3 had more than enough power and drove my HE-500 far louder than I could listen, coming from my Yulong U100 DAC, but that I was also surprised that my cheap Samson QH4 amp went even louder than the Magni 3.

In any case, I’m certainly satisfied with my Magni 3 and that’s all that matters for me concerning it.

I like that it gives me much better results with low impedance headphones as I have much better control on the pot than with my stepped volume on the built-in amp on the Yulong U100.


----------



## treecloud (Dec 17, 2017)

treecloud said:


> Something missing in this conversation is system interaction. What is the gain of the device driving the Magni 3? It's a huge variable on loudness of downstream amplification devices. But has little to nothing to do with the power capacity of that device. Impedance differences between components is another potential variable, but not usually significant in well designed line level devices. It's easy to conflate and confuse power output capability and loudness based on where the volume control knob is set, but it's not that simple. The best idea is to forget where the level control is set and instead ask yourself "am I hearing clipping compression"? If you are not hearing it the device is very likely still well within it's "clean" power output capability.



PS - Should have mentioned it's not necessarily a good idea to turn up a powerful amp until you hear clipping distortion just to asses headroom envelope of that device. That would be a good way to damage your hearing  

If the device sounds "clean" at every level you would normally listen you're good to go.


----------



## trellus

treecloud said:


> PS - Should have mentioned it's not necessarily a good idea to turn up a powerful amp until you hear clipping distortion just to asses headroom envelope of that device. That would be a good way to damage your hearing
> 
> If the device sounds "clean" at every level you would normally listen you're good to go.



Haha, well, no, as I reported earlier in this thread, the headphones were definitely not on my head when I did that.  

I first assessed loudness with them on and then as they got too loud, I took them off.


----------



## emulov (Dec 18, 2017)

erich6 said:


> Me too...and even then it's missing some dynamics (on mine).  I sent a note to Schiit and see if there is additional troubleshooting I can do.  Otherwise I believe they will have to take a look at my amp and see if it is defective.


 Yeah, same.

With a 2 Vrms Sabre DAC, I needed the Magni 3 on about 1-3 low gain but up to 11 on full for HD558, and 12-3 full gain for K612. It really depended on the song's source. Either way, this seemed wrong for something so powerful especially since others need it way lower. It was like all of the power was cramped higher up the pot so below a certain point, the sound was faint and changing the volume didn't make much of a difference. After that point, changing the volume made a significant difference in small increments (but was then too loud).

I tested the Sabre DAC with an SMSL M3 which puts out 85mW into a 64 ohm load whereas Magni 3 puts out 1.3mW into a 50 ohm load. I was surprised that it got louder and for sure sounds more full-bodied even with the K612 (on exceptionally quiet recordings, it's much too quiet even maxed however). It is comfortably loud between 11 and halfway for either headphone and is too loud past 1. It isn't thin across the pot and sounds like it's outputting all of its power instead of recessing it even though it doesn't have enough to properly drive the K612. This confirmed to me that my Magni 3 at least sounded like it lacked power for some reason even though it definitely has more and much better headroom.

Then I read about two other owners having the exact same issue. I contacted Schiit and they suggested switching cables but that didn't help. I sent it back thinking mine had a defect but was told it didn't, so I got a full refund and was planning to order from another store with Schiit's RCA PYST cable. Thanks to -ImageX and DavidA, I now think my Magni 3 RCA jacks didn't make good contact with the cables I used.


----------



## MixMasterMan

erich6 said:


> Me too...and even then it's missing some dynamics (on mine).  I sent a note to Schiit and see if there is additional troubleshooting I can do.  Otherwise I believe they will have to take a look at my amp and see if it is defective.



I haven't heard the Magni 3 yet, but this reviewer on YT noted that the Magni 3 sounded compressed. That was the first thing I noticed about the Magni 2. As long as you have a good connection to your source, I don't know how much trouble shooting you can do. A signal, is a signal. The amp will do, what it do. Either the amp works, or it doesn't.


----------



## FrivolsListener

MixMasterMan said:


> I haven't heard the Magni 3 yet, but this reviewer on YT noted that the Magni 3 sounded compressed. That was the first thing I noticed about the Magni 2. As long as you have a good connection to your source, I don't know how much trouble shooting you can do. A signal, is a signal. The amp will do, what it do. Either the amp works, or it doesn't.




I have to wonder what headphones he's driving with it.  That was a pretty damning review, and not at all with my experience.  FWIW, I drive HD-800s with it, and have driven HD-600s just for comparison's sake.

I'm also going to have to view his other reviews to see if he knows his stuff.  I've seen some pretty clueless youtube reviewers and I don't know what his level of expertise really is.


----------



## Astral Abyss

MixMasterMan said:


> I haven't heard the Magni 3 yet, but this reviewer on YT noted that the Magni 3 sounded compressed. That was the first thing I noticed about the Magni 2. As long as you have a good connection to your source, I don't know how much trouble shooting you can do. A signal, is a signal. The amp will do, what it do. Either the amp works, or it doesn't.




I could take him more seriously if he'd ditch those ear gauges, the "I'm edgy shirt... no really, did you see my gauges"? and comb/wash his hair.


----------



## MixMasterMan (Dec 18, 2017)

FrivolsListener said:


> I have to wonder what headphones he's driving with it.  That was a pretty damning review, and not at all with my experience.  FWIW, I drive HD-800s with it, and have driven HD-600s just for comparison's sake.
> 
> I'm also going to have to view his other reviews to see if he knows his stuff.  I've seen some pretty clueless youtube reviewers and I don't know what his level of expertise really is.



I hear you. I've watched a lot of his reviews (and other people's). Taste is subjective, but he's experienced. He's heard a lot of gear. Judging dynamics is a more objective (and easier) task. Especially if you are a content creator and work with raw audio. Either there is a natural/original dynamic gap with your listening device/amp, or a narrower dynamic gap. If it's narrower, then the sound is being compressed.



Astral Abyss said:


> I could take him more seriously if he'd ditch those ear gauges, the "I'm edgy shirt... no really, did you see my gauges"? and comb/wash his hair.



Don't worry... in 20 years, I guarantee he'll have regretted the decision to put holes in his earlobes.


----------



## Voxata

I just got a Magni 3 with a Cthulu wall-wart included at no extra charge. Really nice bonus, considering I've got a Loki and Modi Multibit too. Hope others were as fortunate this Christmas Schiit power supply shortage!


----------



## ScOgLiO

Did you buy all of them now, in one purchase? Even so, that's a nice touch from Schiit!


----------



## FrivolsListener

Some Magni 3's were shipped with Cthulus because their wall-wart supply was short, but they wanted to get Christmas shipments out in a reasonable amount of time.  Jason pasted the note in his thread that comes along with the package explaining the "bonus."


----------



## Renato Fury

Cthulus ?


----------



## FrivolsListener

Renato Fury said:


> Cthulus ?


----------



## FrivolsListener

Whoops.  Big picture are big.

I didn't expect that.


----------



## ScOgLiO

Well, that's pretty cool of them


----------



## Renato Fury

FrivolsListener said:


>


But what are these four connectors for ?


----------



## FrivolsListener

Renato Fury said:


> But what are these four connectors for ?



Read the yellow sheet.  Or the Schiit web site.


----------



## Renato Fury

FrivolsListener said:


> Read the yellow sheet.  Or the Schiit web site.


I might as well, but english is not quite a language i master.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Renato Fury said:


> But what are these four connectors for ?


----------



## FrivolsListener

Renato Fury said:


> I might as well, but english is not quite a language i master.



Ahh, well, I don't know where else to go with that except another explanation in English:

There are other small products that Schiit sells that would use the other connectors, but you would use the one color coded for the Magni 3 from the Cthulu.


----------



## RockaRolla

Renato Fury said:


> But what are these four connectors for ?



Click on the picture to maximize it, the white label on the adaptor explains simply what power each connector provides


----------



## Voxata

Nope had just ordered a Magni and got it. Quite happy.


----------



## JamminVMI

Voxata said:


> Nope had just ordered a Magni and got it. Quite happy.


Lucky you! I purchased the Cthulhu, and it drives my Modi 2U, Lokiand Magni 3. The Vali 2 needs its “special” wall wart, though. Glad to have the Cthulhu, as otherwise my surge protector would look, well, overloaded (those Schiit warts are BIG). I like to switch between the Magni 3 and Vali 2 for different recordings, but...

Magni 3 is a dynamo for its ridiculously low price. Sitting here now listening to some soft jazz (Eliane Elias/Dreamer), and am loving the intimacy, warmth and clarity with my HD598s. Couldn’t be happier, and I wasn’t at all unhappy with my Magni 2U (now on my nightstand...).

Awesome stuff. Now go buy some more Schiit to hang on that Cthulhu!

Returning to my music, previously in progress...


----------



## Renato Fury

JamminVMI said:


> Lucky you! I purchased the Cthulhu, and it drives my Modi 2U, Lokiand Magni 3. The Vali 2 needs its “special” wall wart, though. Glad to have the Cthulhu, as otherwise my surge protector would look, well, overloaded (those Schiit warts are BIG). I like to switch between the Magni 3 and Vali 2 for different recordings, but...
> 
> Magni 3 is a dynamo for its ridiculously low price. Sitting here now listening to some soft jazz (Eliane Elias/Dreamer), and am loving the intimacy, warmth and clarity with my HD598s. Couldn’t be happier, and I wasn’t at all unhappy with my Magni 2U (now on my nightstand...).
> 
> ...


Magni 3 powering the HD 598? What a waste of money.


----------



## Voxata

Renato Fury said:


> Magni 3 powering the HD 598? What a waste of money.


Hardly a waste.


----------



## GearMe

Renato Fury said:


> Magni 3 powering the HD 598? What a waste of money.



Interesting...So JamminVMI shouldn't buy a cost-effective, well made amplifier to listen to their headphones through?


----------



## JamminVMI

GearMe said:


> Interesting...So JamminVMI shouldn't buy a cost-effective, well made amplifier to listen to their headphones through?


LOL! I should. I did. I would again. And for soft jazz, I think (read: prefer) the 598s Over the 650s.


----------



## RickB

JamminVMI said:


> LOL! I should. I did. I would again. And for soft jazz, I think (read: prefer) the 598s Over the 650s.



If it sounds good to you, that's all that matters.


----------



## Renato Fury

GearMe said:


> Interesting...So JamminVMI shouldn't buy a cost-effective, well made amplifier to listen to their headphones through?


For me he could buy the HE1 and wreck it with a sledgehammer, but that was wasted money was.


----------



## Voxata

Renato Fury said:


> For me he could buy the HE1 and wreck it with a sledgehammer, but that was wasted money was.



Your contributions are very questionable. Please be open to opinions as the Magni 3 even gave gains on a cheap set of IEMs I have. Its a wickedly cheap amp and the performance is excellent for the price point for any use. Thanks


----------



## Renato Fury

Voxata said:


> Your contributions are very questionable. Please be open to opinions as the Magni 3 even gave gains on a cheap set of IEMs I have. Its a wickedly cheap amp and the performance is excellent for the price point for any use. Thanks


Not my dear, this is not about Magni 3 because I even intend to buy it, but to drive the HD 598 is an exaggeration, the Fiio E10K or Fulla 2 already has enough power for this task.


----------



## GearMe

Renato Fury said:


> Not my dear, this is not about Magni 3 because I even intend to buy it, but to drive the HD 598 is an exaggeration, the Fiio E10K or Fulla 2 already has enough power for this task.


Like so many comments on Head-Fi...the author pre-supposes to know all the background/context for another member's decisions regarding their PERSONAL audio system.

Going forward, we'll make sure to check on our purchasing choices with you!


----------



## Renato Fury

GearMe said:


> Like so many comments on Head-Fi...the author pre-supposes to know all the background/context for another member's decisions regarding their PERSONAL audio system.
> 
> Going forward, we'll make sure to check on our purchasing choices with you!


With all certainty my dear, and before making a purchase that will probably be wasted money remember, come and consult me because I know more than all of you together.


----------



## Voxata

It's not wasted money. When I had a 400i the Asgard 2 was "enough power" yet when trying a Jotunheim balanced I saw improvement. Clear, more punchy layered bass etc. It's not all about being loud, my dear.


----------



## Renato Fury (Dec 23, 2017)

Voxata said:


> It's not wasted money. When I had a 400i the Asgard 2 was "enough power" yet when trying a Jotunheim balanced I saw improvement. Clear, more punchy layered bass etc. It's not all about being loud, my dear.


Everyone knows that the HE400i needs an amplifier, the HD598 does not, and i bet the improvements you got were minimal.


----------



## wingsounds13

Right...  All amps sound the same, it's just a matter of bow much power you need, and more power than needed is just a waste and has no effect on the sound quality  (or control of the driver.  Oh well.

J.P.


----------



## Renato Fury

wingsounds13 said:


> Right...  All amps sound the same, it's just a matter of bow much power you need, and more power than needed is just a waste and has no effect on the sound quality  (or control of the driver.  Oh well.
> 
> J.P.


Amen brother, but everyone is already exaggerated, most maybe.


----------



## DavidA

Renato Fury said:


> Everyone knows that the HE400i needs an amplifier, the HD598 does not, and i bet the improvements you got were minimal.


I didn't feel the HE400i "needs" an amp to sound good since its not a headphone that scales much but the choice of using an amp is more to tune the sound.  Same with the HD598, to me it sounded better with an amp (hybrid) since it made the harsh treble of the HD598 a little easier to listen to for me but for my ex-GF that I gave the HD598 to she loves it from her MBP laptop.


----------



## Voxata

Renato Fury said:


> Everyone knows that the HE400i needs an amplifier, the HD598 does not, and i bet the improvements you got were minimal.



Slam was improved, it was also a cleaner amp with a blacker background. I rather enjoyed the improvement. To state no benefit from upgrading or the other assumptions you are making is interesting to me. I'd say each amp has a bit of a signature, at least in my experience. My iDSD is flatter, but has an expansive detailed soundstage. Switching to Magni 3 everything gains height but softens and loses that expanse and sharp detail.


----------



## Renato Fury

DavidA said:


> I didn't feel the HE400i "needs" an amp to sound good since its not a headphone that scales much but the choice of using an amp is more to tune the sound.  Same with the HD598, to me it sounded better with an amp (hybrid) since it made the harsh treble of the HD598 a little easier to listen to for me but for my ex-GF that I gave the HD598 to she loves it from her MBP laptop.


Your comment only reinforces what I said, and why you fill your mouth to talk about your girlfriends, is that called straight pride ?


----------



## Renato Fury

Voxata said:


> Slam was improved, it was also a cleaner amp with a blacker background. I rather enjoyed the improvement. To state no benefit from upgrading or the other assumptions you are making is interesting to me. I'd say each amp has a bit of a signature, at least in my experience. My iDSD is flatter, but has an expansive detailed soundstage. Switching to Magni 3 everything gains height but softens and loses that expanse and sharp detail.


But the changes remain minimal, and Magni 3 remains a waste of money to match it with the HD 598.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Lol its his money, chill out.  A HD 598 can still benefit from an amp.  Whether or not the small improvement is worth it is up to you.


----------



## Renato Fury

SomeTechNoob said:


> Lol its his money, chill out.  A HD 598 can still benefit from an amp.  Whether or not the small improvement is worth it is up to you.


I know the money is his, so I said that for me he could buy the HE1 and then break it with a mallet or throw it from the roof, but it is still waste of money.


----------



## IEMstrong

Is the Magni 3/Modi 2 combo overkill for the DT 770?


----------



## mmmadog

To say a 99.00 amp is overkill for ANY headphones makes very little sense


----------



## mmmadog

I have the Schiit stack with the mag 3 and have hd650 bass modded k701  dt880 600ohm and AT ad700 and they all sound good in there own way.I have since gotten a valhalla 1 because of the dt880 and prefer the valhalla with the hd650 and dt880's Not saying in any way the valhalla is better than the mag 3. I just like the tube sound with certain HP's. Couple of gripes I have with the Schiit stack is it needs a Schiit strap or something to hold them together. Slightest tug on the HP cable and there goes your stack and the volume knob is too close to the HP jack. Makes it a little awkward sometimes to turn up volume.


----------



## sennsay

mmmadog said:


> I have the Schiit stack with the mag 3 and have hd650 bass modded k701  dt880 600ohm and AT ad700 and they all sound good in there own way.I have since gotten a valhalla 1 because of the dt880 and prefer the valhalla with the hd650 and dt880's Not saying in any way the valhalla is better than the mag 3. I just like the tube sound with certain HP's. Couple of gripes I have with the Schiit stack is it needs a Schiit strap or something to hold them together. Slightest tug on the HP cable and there goes your stack and the volume knob is too close to the HP jack. Makes it a little awkward sometimes to turn up volume.


Good to hear of your experiences with a group of cans with the M3. I've got a pair of HD6XX coming in the new year. Currently I'm using the HifiMAN HE400S with my M3, as well as some much modified Denon AH-D1000 cans (even my 600 ohm Senn HD540Rs), both of which are terrific with the amp, each showing very clearly their own sonic sigs, the benefits - for the most part - of a constant and low output impedance. Sounds like you have discovered something similar. I generally use my HD540Rs with the Valhalla 2, it's a little different from the V1, but if you want a huge treat with yours, Tom from Schiit recommended to me a set of Amperex NOS 1968 Orange Globe 6DJ8's. Wow! Give 'em some hours and boy do they add so much more than the stock tubes in the front end. Especially with brighter headphones! I'm looking forward to hearing my upcoming HD6XX with the V2! 
 Thanks for the tip on the Schiit stack, as I'm buying a Mimby early next year and I hear you on the tippy toes thing with light gear. I use very light 1/2M pure silver cables with Bullet plugs to help counteract the "pulling the amp of the shelf" thing  Might have to create a strap of some form when the Mimby is added.


----------



## Renato Fury

mmmadog said:


> I have the Schiit stack with the mag 3 and have hd650 bass modded k701  dt880 600ohm and AT ad700 and they all sound good in there own way.I have since gotten a valhalla 1 because of the dt880 and prefer the valhalla with the hd650 and dt880's Not saying in any way the valhalla is better than the mag 3. I just like the tube sound with certain HP's. Couple of gripes I have with the Schiit stack is it needs a Schiit strap or something to hold them together. Slightest tug on the HP cable and there goes your stack and the volume knob is too close to the HP jack. Makes it a little awkward sometimes to turn up volume.


You could use this mini rack, so you would not need a handle to hold them together.


----------



## sennsay

Renato Fury said:


> You could use this mini rack, so you would not need a handle to hold them together.


Nice!


----------



## mmmadog

I saw that. It looks nice plus you get style points with that. I'm so much into tubes right now but I thought about mag 3 with loki wyrd is that wired or weird and the modi 2 multibit they should just call it modi 3 and that mini rack would work perfect.


----------



## Renato Fury

mmmadog said:


> I saw that. It looks nice plus you get style points with that. I'm so much into tubes right now but I thought about mag 3 with loki wyrd is that wired or weird and the modi 2 multibit they should just call it modi 3 and that mini rack would work perfect.


Then buy one.


----------



## erich6

I sent my Magni 3 back for repair/replacement as I could not get it to work right with my HD6XX.  I'm hoping it was just a defective unit and when I get it replaced I will report on how it works.


----------



## Voxata

Renato Fury said:


> I know the money is his, so I said that for me he could buy the HE1 and then break it with a mallet or throw it from the roof, but it is still waste of money.



You are a friendly one  in audio small gains are what we all chase after. So.. he got what he paid for. I mean c'mon, it's $100.


----------



## GearMe

IEMstrong said:


> Is the Magni 3/Modi 2 combo overkill for the DT 770?



Not sure...better ask Renato Fury!


----------



## Left Channel

IEMstrong said:


> Is the Magni 3/Modi 2 combo overkill for the DT 770?



It's a good match for the 250 Ω version; even on low gain some people don't turn the volume past 12 o'clock. The other versions are fine too, but you'll use even less of the volume range with those.


----------



## JamminVMI

GearMe said:


> Not sure...better ask Renato Fury!


Yup! I know it’s great for both my 598s and 650s...


----------



## Renato Fury

Voxata said:


> You are a friendly one  in audio small gains are what we all chase after. So.. he got what he paid for. I mean c'mon, it's $100.


Well, what matters is to be happy right, and by the way, MERRY CHRISTMAS!


----------



## VinylDan1

Does anyone else leave this thing on 24/7? I leave my Modi Multibit powered up, but usually shut off the Magni 3 and turn it back on before I am going to use it. I left it on for a few days then used it today, it seems to sound much better with my pretty new still HD6xx (It didn't sound bad before, but I seem to hear a clear improvement). I may be going crazy, not trying to make any claims, just trying see what the consensus is.


----------



## Tuneslover

VinylDan1 said:


> Does anyone else leave this thing on 24/7? I leave my Modi Multibit powered up, but usually shut off the Magni 3 and turn it back on before I am going to use it. I left it on for a few days then used it today, it seems to sound much better with my pretty new still HD6xx (It didn't sound bad before, but I seem to hear a clear improvement). I may be going crazy, not trying to make any claims, just trying see what the consensus is.



I leave my DACs on 24/7 but I turn off my amps.


----------



## Renato Fury

Tuneslover said:


> I leave my DACs on 24/7 but I turn off my amps.


Why ?


----------



## ScOgLiO

Tuneslover said:


> I leave my DACs on 24/7 but I turn off my amps.



That seems to be standard procedure, as far as I've read on this and Mimby's threads. The multibit architecture of the Mimby benefits from a stable temperature given by a constant powering, but I guess other kinds of devices/architectures do not


----------



## Left Channel

Wall-warts are power-sucking leeches even when the equipment is turned off. I shut down my entire Schiit system from one power strip, warts and all.


----------



## RickB

VinylDan1 said:


> Does anyone else leave this thing on 24/7? I leave my Modi Multibit powered up, but usually shut off the Magni 3 and turn it back on before I am going to use it. I left it on for a few days then used it today, it seems to sound much better with my pretty new still HD6xx (It didn't sound bad before, but I seem to hear a clear improvement). I may be going crazy, not trying to make any claims, just trying see what the consensus is.



I leave mine turned on, doesn't hurt. The LED will last about 5 years (approximately) if you leave it on all the time.


----------



## Tuneslover

Renato Fury said:


> Why ?



It's well known and stated by Mike that it's recommended to keep DACs turned on in order to achieve and maintain an optimal thermal temperature for best sonic performance.  Amps on the other hand aren't that sensitive but certainly benefit with a warm up period.


----------



## Renato Fury

Tuneslover said:


> It's well known and stated by Mike that it's recommended to keep DACs turned on in order to achieve and maintain an optimal thermal temperature for best sonic performance.  Amps on the other hand aren't that sensitive but certainly benefit with a warm up period.


Okay, but how long would it take pro dac to reach the ideal temperature ?


----------



## FrivolsListener

VinylDan1 said:


> Does anyone else leave this thing on 24/7? I leave my Modi Multibit powered up, but usually shut off the Magni 3 and turn it back on before I am going to use it. I left it on for a few days then used it today, it seems to sound much better with my pretty new still HD6xx (It didn't sound bad before, but I seem to hear a clear improvement). I may be going crazy, not trying to make any claims, just trying see what the consensus is.


Yes, I do.


----------



## DavidA

VinylDan1 said:


> Does anyone else leave this thing on 24/7? I leave my Modi Multibit powered up, but usually shut off the Magni 3 and turn it back on before I am going to use it. I left it on for a few days then used it today, it seems to sound much better with my pretty new still HD6xx (It didn't sound bad before, but I seem to hear a clear improvement). I may be going crazy, not trying to make any claims, just trying see what the consensus is.


Another vote for leaving DACs on 24/7 (Bimby, Bifrost Uber, Modi2uber) but my Teac UD-301 and AH-01 are turned of since they also have amps in them.


----------



## Tuneslover

Renato Fury said:


> Okay, but how long would it take pro dac to reach the ideal temperature ?



A few days should do.


----------



## hagenhays

I am just looking forward to the straight simplicity and power of a solid state.
I was having issues with my vali 2 the other day, didn't sound right. (We get surges here). Finally decided to try switching out the tube....voilla, problem solved, however, I would like to just get back to hearing music, this voodoo tube rolling isn't that much fun, imo.

Is anyone else with a tube amp in this boat? I'm ready for solid state. Probably hold off...wondering if the old asgard will get a reboot....would like a bigger chassis, volume pot and close to 1 w for the Senn 650s.

Or do you think the mangi 3 is all you need?


----------



## FrivolsListener

hagenhays said:


> I am just looking forward to the straight simplicity and power of a solid state.
> I was having issues with my vali 2 the other day, didn't sound right. (We get surges here). Finally decided to try switching out the tube....voilla, problem solved, however, I would like to just get back to hearing music, this voodoo tube rolling isn't that much fun, imo.
> 
> Is anyone else with a tube amp in this boat? I'm ready for solid state. Probably hold off...wondering if the old asgard will get a reboot....would like a bigger chassis, volume pot and close to 1 w for the Senn 650s.
> ...



I think for a single-ended connection, Magni 3 will provide all the power you need and is, in fact, more than the rest of Schiit's SE line.  (Your 650s are 300 Ohm impedance.  Check the specs.)

If you go balanced, consider the Jotenheim (sp!).


----------



## DavidA

hagenhays said:


> I am just looking forward to the straight simplicity and power of a solid state.
> I was having issues with my vali 2 the other day, didn't sound right. (We get surges here). Finally decided to try switching out the tube....voilla, problem solved, however, I would like to just get back to hearing music, this voodoo tube rolling isn't that much fun, imo.
> 
> Is anyone else with a tube amp in this boat? I'm ready for solid state. Probably hold off...wondering if the old asgard will get a reboot....would like a bigger chassis, volume pot and close to 1 w for the Senn 650s.
> ...


For the HD650 I'd go with the Asgard2 or Jot over the Magni3 since the Magni3 is a touch on the warm side to me while the Asgard2 and Jot are neutral to a touch bright which to me is a better pairing with the HD650.  With that said I prefer a OTL (BH Crack for me) amp for the HD650 but you will need to deal with tubes.

If you get surges you might want to get a power conditioner setup for all your gear since surges can damage any electronic gear.


----------



## MtnMan307

I really like the Jot with the HD650.  I started out with a Vali 2 and K7XX, and the Vali 2 is a good amp, but I usually use the Jot with both headphones.  Balanced for the 650s and SE for the K7's.  In balanced mode at 300 ohms, the Jot puts out 900mW I believe, and IMO it drives the 650s better than the Vali 2 is able to.  I'm debating selling the Vali 2 but then I would probably "need" a Lyr 2 or Valhalla 2 to replace it.


----------



## Alcophone

FrivolsListener said:


> Jotenheim (sp!).


Jot*u*nheim.


----------



## JamminVMI

hagenhays said:


> I am just looking forward to the straight simplicity and power of a solid state.
> I was having issues with my vali 2 the other day, didn't sound right. (We get surges here). Finally decided to try switching out the tube....voilla, problem solved, however, I would like to just get back to hearing music, this voodoo tube rolling isn't that much fun, imo.
> 
> Is anyone else with a tube amp in this boat? I'm ready for solid state. Probably hold off...wondering if the old asgard will get a reboot....would like a bigger chassis, volume pot and close to 1 w for the Senn 650s.
> ...



I have a Modi 2U and Loki feeding a sys that branches to either Vali2 or Magni3. I love both sounds (tube and solid state), though I'm leaning more toward the Magni 3 since I got it.

And YES, Magni 3 is wonderful with 650s... (pretty much twice the power of the Vali 2 into 300 Ohms (430 vs 270, and yeah, I'm not that great at maths  ). Bigger chassis? Now that's a whole other kettle of fish...


----------



## MtnMan307 (Dec 26, 2017)

I listened to all of the Schiit products at RMAF 2017 a couple months ago.  Magni 3 is the real deal at $100, I doubt anyone can match it for the price.

The volume pot on the Jotunheim is a big step up from the Vali 2/Magni 3 though.  I have much finer control than the Vali 2 which didn't have much breathing room before it got too loud or too quiet.


----------



## bixby

Anyone compare the JDS Labs EL Amp to the Magni 3?  

I have searched the thread and no one mentions the El Amp.  While I like the Magni 3 and feel it is a nice step  up froi the Magni 2, would be curious to hear impressions if anyone has put a El Amp next to it for comparison.  Thx.


----------



## RickB

hagenhays said:


> I am just looking forward to the straight simplicity and power of a solid state.
> I was having issues with my vali 2 the other day, didn't sound right. (We get surges here). Finally decided to try switching out the tube....voilla, problem solved, however, I would like to just get back to hearing music, this voodoo tube rolling isn't that much fun, imo.
> 
> Is anyone else with a tube amp in this boat? I'm ready for solid state. Probably hold off...wondering if the old asgard will get a reboot....would like a bigger chassis, volume pot and close to 1 w for the Senn 650s.
> ...



I own both a Vali 2 and Magni 3. The Magni is my main amp now, but I switched back to the Vali a while back and noticed some distortion, especially with electric guitars. It was bothersome, because the same track played on the Magni 3 was distortion free. I might have solved the issue by installing a new tube, but I didn't bother. I just went back to the Magni.


----------



## hagenhays

Even if they come out with a bigger pot and chassis, for $100 you can't beat that.

Sounds like people are seeing at least a small improvement over the valii 2...I did notice the 430>270 output difference.
I'm just not loving the tube chasing....$50 amperex for a $169 amp seems dumb, that's where solid state sounds like a better buy, especially if it has more power and I actually think the vali 2 drives the hd6xxs just fine, I just don't like chasing the voodoo magic anymore, and I've only bought 4 tubes!!

Maybe the magni3 can tide me over until they say, maybe an asgard 3....one can hope anyways. From what I read, the balanced jotenheim is more of a convenience feature vs sound improvement.


----------



## hagenhays

MtnMan307 said:


> I listened to all of the Schiit products at RMAF 2017 a couple months ago.  Magni 3 is the real deal at $100, I doubt anyone can match it for the price.
> 
> The volume pot on the Jotunheim is a big step up from the Vali 2/Magni 3 though.  I have much finer control than the Vali 2 which didn't have much breathing room before it got too loud or too quiet.



Do you think there's a noticeable step up with the mangi 3 over vali 2??
At least in terms of volume control?? I think the vali pot is pretty hard to fine tune from sweet spot to too much just before straight up noon. Very hard to hit the right spot....just wonder your take on the mangi 3. Thanks. Cheers to Montana, me too!


----------



## DavidA

hagenhays said:


> Do you think there's a noticeable step up with the mangi 3 over vali 2??
> At least in terms of volume control?? I think the vali pot is pretty hard to fine tune from sweet spot to too much just before straight up noon. Very hard to hit the right spot....just wonder your take on the mangi 3. Thanks. Cheers to Montana, me too!


Having a Asgard2, Lyr2, Magni (sold) and played with Rag, Jot, Valhalla2, Magni2 and Magni3 the larger amps do have a smoother volume knob that makes it easier to adjust the volume IMO.


----------



## MtnMan307

hagenhays said:


> Do you think there's a noticeable step up with the mangi 3 over vali 2??
> At least in terms of volume control?? I think the vali pot is pretty hard to fine tune from sweet spot to too much just before straight up noon. Very hard to hit the right spot....just wonder your take on the mangi 3. Thanks. Cheers to Montana, me too!


I have the same issue with the Vali 2, better on low gain than high gain, but the Jotunheim volume knob offers a lot more breathing room and the channels are balanced all the way to barely audible volumes.  When I tried the Magni 3 it seemed to be maybe just a slightly better volume pot than Vali 2 but still not like the Jot. 

Where in MT do you live? I want to move to Denver but would stay here if I had more job opportunities.


----------



## Duxxy

Ordered my Magni 3 earlier. Can I get away with using an Xduoo XD-05 for a dac, or should I just pull the trigger on a Modi Uber?


----------



## JamminVMI

Duxxy said:


> Ordered my Magni 3 earlier. Can I get away with using an Xduoo XD-05 for a dac, or should I just pull the trigger on a Modi Uber?


Give your combo a listen. If you like it, it’s great! And if you think it can sound better (isn’t that the mantra/mandate of our hobby?), pull the trigger on the Modi 2 Uber!

I have the Modi 2 Uber/Magni 3 combo, and love them. Never heard the XD-05...


----------



## opa1

Bought the Magni 3 today. I returned the Fulla 2 that I tried out. I'll be pairing the Magni 3/Modi multibit with SHP9500S and HD-6XX. The Fulla 2 was nice but not much change from my PC sound. The Mimby is a different story. It's a nice DAC.


----------



## tgh5000

Could anyone give impressions on Magni 3 vs JDS O2 with HD 600? I am specially interested to know if the Magni 3 can pull back the midrange of HD 600 a bit. Thanks.


----------



## quimbo

Renato Fury said:


> You could use this mini rack, so you would not need a handle to hold them together.



I recently picked up 2 of these units, thank you for posting


----------



## crazychile

tgh5000 said:


> Could anyone give impressions on Magni 3 vs JDS O2 with HD 600? I am specially interested to know if the Magni 3 can pull back the midrange of HD 600 a bit. Thanks.



I haven't heard an O2, but the Magni 3 has more than twice the power than the O2 on most headphones, depending on impedance. I also haven't heard the HD600 in years, so I don't know if the midrange bump is normal or not. However if it is a side effect of the O2 not being able to handle the higher impedances well, then the Magni could maybe help.

I use a Magni 3 with HD650s and its a great combination. Plenty of power, and sounds good even at low volume. You could start with a Magni 3 and then add the Loki EQ later if you wanted to dial it in more to your liking.


----------



## opa1

quimbo said:


> I recently picked up 2 of these units, thank you for posting


Where can I find the rack?


----------



## quimbo

opa1 said:


> Where can I find the rack?


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...e-rack-transparent-equipment/32788148827.html


----------



## KaiFi

Just got the Magni 3 after using the Magni 2 for a while. One thing I noticed is that it does not get near as warm when running. I've had mine on for about 2 hours now and it's practically cool to the touch. The same could not be said for the 2. I don't notice much of a difference sonically, but is an improvement, so I'm glad I got it  (I also needed a second amp since I was constantly switching the 2 between two devices).


----------



## Tuneslover

KaiFi said:


> Just got the Magni 3 after using the Magni 2 for a while. One thing I noticed is that it does not get near as warm when running. I've had mine on for about 2 hours now and it's practically cool to the touch. The same could not be said for the 2. I don't notice much of a difference sonically, but is an improvement, so I'm glad I got it  (I also needed a second amp since I was constantly switching the 2 between two devices).



That's the same thing I ran into too, now I have 4 amps.


----------



## 370640 (Jan 7, 2018)

Has anyone experienced the feet on the Magni 3 being uneven? Mine rocks to the right and forward. I've tried screwing / pulling a little but it still rocks a bit. Any thoughts? It's really annoying as when you want to change the volume it's just rocking all over the place.


----------



## JamminVMI

davidmt83 said:


> Has anyone experienced the feet on the Magni 3 being uneven? Mine rocks to the right and forward. I've tried screwing / pulling a little but it still rocks a bit. Any thoughts? Thanks


Given that the feet are pressed in, if they all seem to be evenly inserted, almost has to be a torqued chassis, I’d think. Anyone else have thoughts?


----------



## 370640 (Jan 7, 2018)

JamminVMI said:


> Given that the feet are pressed in, if they all seem to be evenly inserted, almost has to be a torqued chassis, I’d think. Anyone else have thoughts?


Thanks - I bought it as a Christmas present so it's passed the 28 day return period. I'm pretty annoyed, it rocks all the time I touch the volume dial.

I've sent an email to Schiit EU / UK Distributer, although it was bought as a Christmas present so passed the initial return period. We'll have to see what they say I guess.


----------



## 370640

Turns out that after sending it back to Mark over at Schiit EU he found that some of the feet were of different sizes and he's since replaced them. Unit back with me and it's completely stable

In other news I've found lightdims.com and ordered some silver stickers which look like they'll reduce the bright LEDs.


----------



## J-Fly

All of these impressions got me excited so I ordered one. That excitement quickly went away as I discovered that the Magni 3 is back-ordered.


----------



## JamminVMI

J-Fly said:


> All of these impressions got me excited so I ordered one. That excitement quickly went away as I discovered that the Magni 3 is back-ordered.


Looks to me like they're in production, should ship soon. I would say: "be patient", but I'm not, so I'll avoid that topic completely... But let us know what you think when you get it!


----------



## ScOgLiO

J-Fly said:


> All of these impressions got me excited so I ordered one. That excitement quickly went away as I discovered that the Magni 3 is back-ordered.



Quite a few Schiit products are, as a matter of fact (at least, that's what EU resellers claim). I pulled the trigger on a Mimby to complete the stack a few days ago, but I'm still waiting for them to re-stock and ship...
Gotta be patient!


----------



## erich6 (Jan 14, 2018)

So I sent my Magni 3 back to Schiit to see if there was a problem with my unit when using a high-impedance headphone (I'm using the HD-6XX 300 ohm).  They sent it back saying it was fine.... Well, I don't like how it pairs with the HD-6XX.  Even on high gain it feels like it is running out of gas.  I can get it to play loud enough between 12 and 3 o'clock positions but the music feels like it's missing some of its dynamics.  I have verified my problem is not my headphones nor my cable as they both work just fine even straight out of my iPhone and definitely sound great with my Oppo HA-2SE and Nobsound NS-08E amp. 

On the other hand, the Magni 3 works very well with my Meze 99 Classics--great combo! Music is rich and the amp has plenty of power (on low gain I can barely turn the knob past 10 o'clock and usually it is around 9 o'clock).  I think I'll keep it just to use with these headphones but otherwise I am disappointed.


----------



## FrivolsListener

erich6 said:


> So I sent my Magni 3 back to Schiit to see if there was a problem with my unit when using a high-impedance headphone (I'm using the HD-6XX 300 ohm).  They sent it back saying it was fine.... Well, I don't like how it pairs with the HD-6XX.  Even on high gain it feels like it is running out of gas.  I can get it to play loud enough between 12 and 3 o'clock positions but the music feels like it's missing some of its dynamics.  I have verified my problem is not my headphones nor my cable as they both work just fine even straight out of my iPhone and definitely sound great with my Oppo HA-2SE and Nobsound NS-08E amp.
> 
> On the other hand, the Magni 3 works very well with my Meze 99 Classics--great combo! Music is rich and the amp has plenty of power (on low gain I can barely turn the knob past 10 o'clock and usually it is around 9 o'clock).  I think I'll keep them just to use with these headphones but otherwise I am disappointed.



One of the things Jason wrote in his thread about the Magni 3 is that he "spread out" the lower volume levels on the volume control to give more fine levels.  That might mean that you have to turn the volume knob higher than expected to get the same results compred to earlier versions or other amps.  I use HD-800s (300 ohm) with it just fine.


----------



## Anarion

Has anyone done RMAA measurements with Magni 3? I'd be interested to see them.


----------



## sennsay (Jan 14, 2018)

FrivolsListener said:


> One of the things Jason wrote in his thread about the Magni 3 is that he "spread out" the lower volume levels on the volume control to give more fine levels.  That might mean that you have to turn the volume knob higher than expected to get the same results compred to earlier versions or other amps.  I use HD-800s (300 ohm) with it just fine.


Agreed, I used my 29 year old upgraded 600 ohm Senn HD540 Reference cans this avo (much better pads, inner driver covers and cable)with the M3, receiving terrific results, volume between 2 and 3 o'clock, no loss of bass or dynamics. In fact taut, even, fluid, punchy and transparent from top to bottom with the wonderful timing and the rhythmic integrity the HD540R's are so good at, is the way I'd describe the music that flowed forth from this great little amp. I was just delighted, since I normally use the HD540R's with twice as much power at 600 ohms from the Valhalla 2 (Amperex NOS tubes). The M3 controlled the Senns brilliantly, no trace of edge and sharpness with vocals, deep and alive bass. Amazing li'l critter, the M3. I do not understand folks selling them on only days after getting their new M3, though each to his or her own. It sounds great with all of my headphones, yet WILL show the tonal balance of each of them as they truly are ... in my experience so far. I find the M3 to be superbly rhythmic, tonally even, articulate and tuneful, brilliant not only just for the money but way better than that, from 22 ohms to 600 ohms, quite astonishing. Midrange articulation is so good I can follow the diction of languages I don't even speak, African dialects, Spanish, French.
Normally using the HifiMAN HE400S with my M3, tonight will be another session with the HD540Rs, one of the best amps I've ever heard with these wonderful headphones .... along with the V3


----------



## erich6 (Jan 14, 2018)

FrivolsListener said:


> One of the things Jason wrote in his thread about the Magni 3 is that he "spread out" the lower volume levels on the volume control to give more fine levels.  That might mean that you have to turn the volume knob higher than expected to get the same results compred to earlier versions or other amps.  I use HD-800s (300 ohm) with it just fine.



Well, I just don't get it.  The Magni 3 spec says it should be putting out 430 mW RMS at 300 ohms which should be more than enough power--my Oppo HA2-SE spec says 30 mW at 300 ohms and that works pretty well with the HD-6XX (in fact it sounds more powerful).  I suppose there could be a difference in the power spectrum bandpass used to measure the RMS power spec between the two amps but I am assuming this would not be hugely significant.  The only other thing I can think of is perhaps there's something weird going on with my setup...I am feeding the Magni with the line out signal from the Oppo which is supposed to be 1 Vrms.  It's a single-ended output so I have a 3.5mm to RCA cable with L/R plugs going to the Magni.  I've tried a different cable and I get the same results.  Also, when I feed this same line-out to my Nobsound NS-08E I get no problem but that's a 3.5mm to 3.5mm connection.  I tried feeding the Magni with the output from my PC's sound card and if I set the volume on the PC to 100% (on Windows and on the music app) I get a little better output but not enough to take the amp to the right levels.

I'm stumped as I'm just not getting the same experience reported by others.  I can't point to "we all hear differently" because I feel my relative comparisons against much lower power amps suggest the issue is real...and according to Schiit not an issue with the Magni.  Certainly it should do better than my iPhone!


----------



## GearMe

It does seem weird...no issues with my Senns.  Works fine with Modi (1st gen), iDac (1st gen), Bimby, etc.  Not sure, but Isn't 1 Vrms a little low from the Oppo line out?


----------



## alpovs (Jan 14, 2018)

erich6 said:


> I am feeding the Magni with the line out signal from the Oppo which is supposed to be 1 Vrms.


I have the HA-2SE. It's line-out output is twice below the standard (usually it's 2 Vrms, not 1 Vrms). Whatever amp I plug it to I need to crank up the volume or use high gain. Have you tried high gain on your Magni 3? I don't have Magni 3 but I have Magni 2 Uber. Whatever other DACs I used with my Magni I used low gain with my headphones. With the HA-2SE I had to use high gain for comfortable listening with everything else being equal. This could be part of your problem.

EDIT: I remember reading a review (could not find it quickly) where the reviewer claimed that HA-2SE's phone-out sounded better and more powerful than line-out when connected to an amp. You may want to try that.


erich6 said:


> I tried feeding the Magni with the output from my PC's sound card and if I set the volume on the PC to 100% (on Windows and on the music app) I get a little better output but not enough to take the amp to the right levels.


Are you using the line-out port, not speaker's?


----------



## sennsay

erich6 said:


> Well, I just don't get it.  The Magni 3 spec says it should be putting out 430 mW RMS at 300 ohms which should be more than enough power--my Oppo HA2-SE spec says 30 mW at 300 ohms and that works pretty well with the HD-6XX (in fact it sounds more powerful).  I suppose there could be a difference in the power spectrum bandpass used to measure the RMS power spec between the two amps but I am assuming this would not be hugely significant.  The only other thing I can think of is perhaps there's something weird going on with my setup...I am feeding the Magni with the line out signal from the Oppo which is supposed to be 1 Vrms.  It's a single-ended output so I have a 3.5mm to RCA cable with L/R plugs going to the Magni.  I've tried a different cable and I get the same results.  Also, when I feed this same line-out to my Nobsound NS-08E I get no problem but that's a 3.5mm to 3.5mm connection.  I tried feeding the Magni with the output from my PC's sound card and if I set the volume on the PC to 100% (on Windows and on the music app) I get a little better output but not enough to take the amp to the right levels.
> 
> I'm stumped as I'm just not getting the same experience reported by others.  I can't point to "we all hear differently" because I feel my relative comparisons against much lower power amps suggest the issue is real...and according to Schiit not an issue with the Magni.  Certainly it should do better than my iPhone!


1 Volt output is half of what most digital and analogue outputs usually are. So yes, a reduction in dynamics can be expected no matter which cable you use. The output of your phone is from the inbuilt amplifier, adding more distortion and volume. Have you tried running the output of a CD/BluRay player into your Magni? You might get a surprise at the difference in loudness and dynamics, just as a test. I use my Questyle QP1R as a source from the analogue out with no problems at all, I'm going to assume it's 1.9V out from both s/PDIF / Optical, as it has a variable output to 1.9V from the DAC output if you choose, I don't (or you can have it as a fixed output, a true line-out, I do), so I presume it's fixed at the highest voltage. 
There's nothing wrong with your cables or your M3, just the low analogue output from your Oppo player, sorry to say, mate. Your Nobsound _might_ have a more sensitive input or it's volume control ramps up quickly, just a different way of doing things. If I can run my 600 ohm Sennheisers from the M3, then it has plenty of power, even if I have the volume set of 2-3 o'clock, it's still clean, punchy and distortionless. I hope I haven't confused you further


----------



## erich6

GearMe said:


> Not sure, but Isn't 1 Vrms a little low from the Oppo line out?





alpovs said:


> have the HA-2SE. It's line-out output is twice below the standard (usually it's 2 Vrms, not 1 Vrms).





sennsay said:


> 1 Volt output is half of what most digital and analogue outputs usually are.



I think I confirmed that's the problem.  I fed the line-out from the Oppo to my FiiO E12 amp which I then connected to the Magni.  I set the FiiO on high gain and cranked the volume up all the way.  With this setup the Magni had plenty of power out to the HD-6XX....  But, it seem silly to do this as I could just plug my headphones to the E12 and be done with it (or to the headphone amp section of the Oppo).  At any rate, it seems the Magni unlike my FiiO portable amp or my Nobsound NS-08E cannot amplify a 1 Vrms signal.  I suspect a DAC with a  2 Vrms output will do fine....

So, if I want to use the Magni in my desktop setup I should consider a) buying a different DAC with 2 Vrms output (I've been thinking about getting a Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital) or b) adding a preamp between the Oppo and the Magni 3.  Will the Loki provide any gain?  I was thinking it would be nice to have the tone controls.


----------



## alpovs

How is high gain on Magni 3 fed directly from HA-2SE? It seemed fine to me on Magni 2 Uber.


----------



## sennsay

erich6 said:


> I think I confirmed that's the problem.  I fed the line-out from the Oppo to my FiiO E12 amp which I then connected to the Magni.  I set the FiiO on high gain and cranked the volume up all the way.  With this setup the Magni had plenty of power out to the HD-6XX....  But, it seem silly to do this as I could just plug my headphones to the E12 and be done with it (or to the headphone amp section of the Oppo).  At any rate, it seems the Magni unlike my FiiO portable amp or my Nobsound NS-08E cannot amplify a 1 Vrms signal.  I suspect a DAC with a  2 Vrms output will do fine....
> 
> So, if I want to use the Magni in my desktop setup I should consider a) buying a different DAC with 2 Vrms output (I've been thinking about getting a Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital) or b) adding a preamp between the Oppo and the Magni 3.  Will the Loki provide any gain?  I was thinking it would be nice to have the tone controls.


You could buy a Mimby DAC and solve the problem instantly and get even better sound quality  Or of course the Pro-Ject S2. Ought to be a cracking sound system.


----------



## erich6

alpovs said:


> How is high gain on Magni 3 fed directly from HA-2SE? It seemed fine to me on Magni 2 Uber.



I'm not sure I understand your question...I have a 3.5mm to RCA cable with L/R plugs connected to the "line out" on the Oppo HA-2SE and then to the Magni inputs with the RCA plugs.  I set the Magni 3 to high gain (and the Oppo is switched to high gain also but that doesn't matter with the line out port).


----------



## erich6

sennsay said:


> You could buy a Mimby DAC and solve the problem instantly and get even better sound quality  Or of course the Pro-Ject S2. Ought to be a cracking sound system.



Many swear by it so I'm thinking about it.... But, I have a few DSD albums I like and I want MQA decoding as I listen to a lot of Tidal through Roon....


----------



## sennsay (Jan 15, 2018)

erich6 said:


> Many swear by it so I'm thinking about it.... But, I have a few DSD albums I like and I want MQA decoding as I listen to a lot of Tidal through Roon....


Then the decision is made a bit easier for you  I'm probably going to line up a Mimby for myself soon, as all of my music files are AIFF, plus some iTunes AAC jobbies.


----------



## alpovs

erich6 said:


> I'm not sure I understand your question...I have a 3.5mm to RCA cable with L/R plugs connected to the "line out" on the Oppo HA-2SE and then to the Magni inputs with the RCA plugs.  I set the Magni 3 to high gain (and the Oppo is switched to high gain also but that doesn't matter with the line out port).


OK then. I think you never mentioned before that you used Magni 3 in high gain. Or I missed it. 

As I mentioned before try the headphone output on the HA-2SE instead of line out. I remember seeing a review recommending this. Maybe it will sound better to you.


----------



## alpovs

erich6 said:


> Many swear by it so I'm thinking about it.... But, I have a few DSD albums I like and I want MQA decoding as I listen to a lot of Tidal through Roon....


But HA-2SE doesn't do MQA decoding. Does it? Or your statement has nothing to do with HA-2SE?


----------



## erich6

alpovs said:


> But HA-2SE doesn't do MQA decoding. Does it? Or your statement has nothing to do with HA-2SE?



No, I don't get MQA from the Oppo.  I purchased it before MQA was widely available but it does support native DSD.  I also wanted something that was portable and the slick design won me over.  The DAC sounds great too so I'm really happy with it.  Now that MQA is available on Tidal I've been thinking about getting a new DAC but wasn't in a rush to get one.  I got the Magni because I had been using a cheap tube amp which sounds awesome but occasionally picks up noise from RFI/EMI sources due to a poor power input implementation and I wanted to add a nice solid-state option to my desktop setup.  I'm disappointed it doesn't work well with the Oppo but I'm getting hints of its greatness with my low impedance headphones so I'm considering getting a new DAC with at least 2 Vrms line out.... 

I will try it out of the headphone output.  I suspect it will be a little better as I know that port is louder than the line-out when the Oppo is set on high gain and turned up.  Just not sure about double-amping....


----------



## erich6

I should add thanks to all of you that replied to my issue and provided helpful comments.  Much appreciated.


----------



## YUHaveNoNames

Renato Fury said:


> Your comment only reinforces what I said, and why you fill your mouth to talk about your girlfriends, is that called straight pride ?



You have issues haha.


----------



## Renato Fury

YUHaveNoNames said:


> You have issues haha.


That's what my parents told me when I set the house on fire. HAHA.


----------



## Mark Williams

OK, back to the original post topic.    I have a Magni (first one) and I'm very pleased with it.   What, other than the gain has been done to the Magni 3?   Any sonic improvements?   Or, is it just the selectable gain feature that's new?


----------



## FrivolsListener

Mark Williams said:


> OK, back to the original post topic.    I have a Magni (first one) and I'm very pleased with it.   What, other than the gain has been done to the Magni 3?   Any sonic improvements?   Or, is it just the selectable gain feature that's new?



Substantial sonic improvements.

Now, if you spend your time listening to Youtube or MP3s, you might not notice.  But if you listen to lossless sources like FLACs or CDs, you'll notice quite a bit.

Technically, the amplifier is a completely different design, not an incremental improvement.

I made the same jump, and it was worth it.


----------



## Mark Williams

FrivolsListener said:


> Substantial sonic improvements.
> 
> Now, if you spend your time listening to Youtube or MP3s, you might not notice.  But if you listen to lossless sources like FLACs or CDs, you'll notice quite a bit.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mark Williams

Ah, OK, very good to know.  Thanks.   Now, here's a question you might consider dumb.   The gain.   Does the gain work for both headphones and when using the thing as a regular preamp hooked to a power amp?

Or, does the gain only affect the headphone section?

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## FrivolsListener

Mark Williams said:


> Ah, OK, very good to know.  Thanks.   Now, here's a question you might consider dumb.   The gain.   Does the gain work for both headphones and when using the thing as a regular preamp hooked to a power amp?
> 
> Or, does the gain only affect the headphone section?
> 
> ...



I don't know if the hi/low gain setting works for the preamp, since that's not how I use mine.  Sorry.


----------



## Mark Williams

I checked with the company and apparently, the gain does affect both the headphones and also when the Magni 3 is used as a preamplifier with a power amp.   Makes sense.
Thanks,
Mark


----------



## bjj51

Can anyone comment on how the magni 3 pairs with the he 560s?


----------



## DavidA

bjj51 said:


> Can anyone comment on how the magni 3 pairs with the he 560s?


I tried it once and it was better than I though it would be but I didn't do really critical listening since we were trying so many headphones on the Magni3 and didn't have time for critical listening and comparing.


----------



## bjj51

I had a question regarding using the magni 3 as a standalone amp on my nightstand with my iPhone 6 Plus as the source. Could I simply use the iPhone cck camera adapter (lightning to USB female), then connect the magni 3 to that with an rca to USB male cord?

Would this prevent double amping while allowing me to use the dac in my iPhone 6s?


----------



## loki993

So this guy, can't say I know who he is but this was linked on another site I frequent, claims that the NFB 11 is "at least 50 percent better" that the M3 and the m3 cannot resolve all of the detail of the t50rp or power them enough.

To me it sounds like a bunch of BS, but id figured id ask you guys.....what should I believe and what should I not?


----------



## bixby

not much different than most youtube reviews like the idot with a letter as his name, haha.

You really think your going to get the straight dope from youtube or from............????

You really have to vet the reviewer or better yet, have personal experience.  Meets, meets and more meets.


----------



## FrivolsListener

loki993 said:


> So this guy, can't say I know who he is but this was linked on another site I frequent, claims that the NFB 11 is "at least 50 percent better" that the M3 and the m3 cannot resolve all of the detail of the t50rp or power them enough.
> 
> To me it sounds like a bunch of BS, but id figured id ask you guys.....what should I believe and what should I not?




Someone pointed me to that very same video on this thread as a statement on why Magni 3 wasn't any good.  I frankly don't know the amplifier he's comparing it against, so I couldn't tell if he was any good.  His description of behavior didn't make sense to me, describing a decidedly nonlinear behavior in the amp that should be easily noticeable.   I've basically waited to hear what others had to say rather than taking just one data point.  (Not that it stopped me from buying; at $100 the amp is hardly a deal-breaker if it were "bad.")


----------



## loki993

bixby said:


> not much different than most youtube reviews like the idot with a letter as his name, haha.
> 
> You really think your going to get the straight dope from youtube or from............????
> 
> You really have to vet the reviewer or better yet, have personal experience.  Meets, meets and more meets.



If the letter guy on youtube that you speak of seems to wear a go pro on his head, because the camera never stops moving/shaking and talks about nothing/BS for far too long..yeah..can't stand him either. 

Also no I'm not but I was curious about what he was saying about the power and its comparison to the NFB 11 which does seem to get good praise here. Other places of the internet though not so much..so it's tough filtering out all the garbage.


----------



## bixby

fwiw, I only heard one Audio GD product, the Compass (pos in my opinion).  I own a Magni 3 with Senn 600.  Have owned Phonitor, Violectric, Lake People, Vali 2, La Figaro, Micromega Myzic?, Benchmark Dac1, Lavry DA-10, Dangerous Source and more.  The Magni 3 is my favorite amp so far for the money and can hold its own against those previously mentioned, IMHO.  Can sound a bit compressed on high gain or when turned up loud.  I run about 11 oclock on low gain with the Senns, with a nominal 2 volt dac input, so not really loud.


----------



## ScOgLiO

loki993 said:


> So this guy, can't say I know who he is but this was linked on another site I frequent, claims that the NFB 11 is "at least 50 percent better" that the M3 and the m3 cannot resolve all of the detail of the t50rp or power them enough.
> 
> To me it sounds like a bunch of BS, but id figured id ask you guys.....what should I believe and what should I not?




I don't know this guy and have not watched the video, but may I say that I wouldn't even know where to start if I had to guess what "at least 50 percent better" means, comparing two amps...


----------



## alpovs

bjj51 said:


> I had a question regarding using the magni 3 as a standalone amp on my nightstand with my iPhone 6 Plus as the source. Could I simply use the iPhone cck camera adapter (lightning to USB female), then connect the magni 3 to that with an *rca to USB male cord*?
> 
> Would this prevent double amping while allowing me to use the dac in my iPhone 6s?


Have you ever seen an RCA to USB cord? There is no such thing. Well, there is - it's called a DAC, they typically have both USB and RCA ports. 
What do you mean by double-amping? Each DAC has an amplifier in it to bring the signal to the level so the external amplifier can amplify it further. I wouldn't worry about it and connect the Magni 3 to headphone-out on your phone. If it has headphone-out. I am not an Apple person.


----------



## bixby

bjj51 said:


> iPhone 6 Plus





bjj51 said:


> I had a question regarding using the magni 3 as a standalone amp on my nightstand with my iPhone 6 Plus as the source. Could I simply use the iPhone cck camera adapter (lightning to USB female), then connect the magni 3 to that with an rca to USB male cord?
> 
> Would this prevent double amping while allowing me to use the dac in my iPhone 6s?



Ok, no you would not use a CCK, since the Magni is an amp and ususally you use cck to connect to a dac or dac/amp combo.  Since the 6 plus has a headphone jack, you could get a mini stereo plug to two male RCAs cable and run that into the Magni.  Yes, you would be double amping but it is not as bad as people would have you believe.  Just run the volume on the iphone at about 90% or so (whatever sounds best) and control the volume from the Magni.  This way you could run harder to drive headphones.


----------



## JamminVMI

alpovs said:


> Have you ever seen an RCA to USB cord? There is no such thing. Well, there is - it's called a DAC, they typically have both USB and RCA ports.
> What do you mean by double-amping? Each DAC has an amplifier in it to bring the signal to the level so the external amplifier can amplify it further. I wouldn't worry about it and connect the Magni 3 to headphone-out on your phone. If it has headphone-out. I am not an Apple person.


Bang on, there. Either use the iPhone headphone adapter to a 3.5mm-to-Dual RCA into the Magni,  or the apple camera adapter into a DAC, and THEN to the Magni...

#alpovs put it well, saying that a USB-to-RCA cord/adapter Isa DAC. Magni must have analogue input, only way to get there from usb is via a DAC.


----------



## J-Fly

My only concern is that I'm used to my Fiio E17's EQ feature and the Magni 3 won't have this. This is a great feature since Apple products don't have a standard EQ and instead have silly presets. I'm hoping that the trade off will be that the Schiit amp's clean AC power will be superior to FiiO.


----------



## bixby

@J-Fly why not have eq and the magni3?  It is quite simple when you dump the stock apple player for one that will give you eq.


----------



## J-Fly

bixby said:


> @J-Fly why not have eq and the magni3?  It is quite simple when you dump the stock apple player for one that will give you eq.


What???? And give up my iPod Classic? Are you insane? Oh, the humanity!


----------



## bixby

oh, I thought you had a phone, sorry.  Last ipod I owned was when the last touch was introduced.  Loved the ipods in their day.


----------



## DavidA

@loki993, while I haven't heard the NFB-11 I've heard a few other AudioGD DACs/amps and there are pretty good to great IMO but I'm still on the fence about owning any due to warranty concerns and already having too many DACs and amps that my GF is getting on my case about "thinning the heard" as she puts it.


----------



## vacantseas

This is my first post here, and my first foray into headphones in general. Always wanted some nice cans, and recently got in on the HD 6XX.  That being said, I'm trying to figure out the best way to utilize these once I get them.

I'd primarily be using them to listen to audio on my PC.  So that being said, I currently have a inexpensive 2.1 powered speaker setup to listen to audio on my PC.  There's a 3.5mm that goes into the motherboard/soundcard and I'm set.  I'd like to be able to keep those set up and active, and then be able to plug the headphones in, and listen to audio out of those when I want.   I'm just having trouble figuring out what would work...

So I'm looking to get the Modi2 Uber/Magni3 combo.  I figure I can either use USB or 3.5mm -> RCA from the PC to the Modi 2.  Connect the Modi/Magni via RCA.  Then I can get a female 3.5mm - > RCA and connect that to the Magni 3.  That way I can use the volume knob to change audio levels out of the 2.1 setup.  Or would this blow out the speakers since they're powered?  Then when I want to use the  HD 6XX I can plug them into the Magni 3, get the audio through those, and I'd be set.

Am I on the right track?

Thanks!


----------



## callumrd1

You'll want to hook up your computer to the Modi with a USB cord, the Modi to the Magni with RCA cables, and then use the RCA pre outs on the Magni to connect your powered speakers. The volume knob on the Magni will control the volume of your speakers. Then whenever you plug your headphones into the Magni it will mute the speakers.


----------



## vacantseas

callumrd1 said:


> You'll want to hook up your computer to the Modi with a USB cord, the Modi to the Magni with RCA cables, and then use the RCA pre outs on the Magni to connect your powered speakers. The volume knob on the Magni will control the volume of your speakers. Then whenever you plug your headphones into the Magni it will mute the speakers.



Cool.  Thanks for the info.  For the RCA pre outs from the magni to the speakers....can I do a RCA -> Female 3.55, then just plug the speakers into that?  That should work, right?  Because the only thing the speakers plug into now is the PC via a male 3.55mm.


----------



## callumrd1

That would work fine.


----------



## dukeReinhardt (Jan 23, 2018)

After just over a month of owning, the pot on mine has started exhibiting this behaviour where letting it sit in the same position for a day or two gets it "stuck", and it requires moderate pressure to make the first turn after a while. It's also started making an obnoxious scratching noise through one channel as it's turned. This is in addition to the channel imbalance and "dead zone" (small amount of "play") in the pot since day 1. I've since learned that all of these things are fairly common in small analog pots, though some behaviours usually only appear after years of use, and it's probably not a great prospect for the future if they're apparent after a month of normal use.

Wanted to exchange but the owner of the store I got mine from has repeatedly advised me to return for refund rather than trying a new unit in case of disappointment, and in any case Magni 3s are currently OOS. Very sad as I assume my pot is just a particularly defective example, and the amp itself has been such a joy. Game over for now.


----------



## JamminVMI

dukeReinhardt said:


> After just over a month of owning, the pot on mine has started exhibiting this behaviour where letting it sit in the same position for a day or two gets it "stuck", and it requires moderate pressure to make the first turn after a while. It's also started making an obnoxious scratching noise through one channel as it's turned. This is in addition to the channel imbalance and "dead zone" (small amount of "play") in the pot since day 1. I've since learned that all of these things are fairly common in small analog pots, though some behaviours usually only appear after years of use, and it's probably not a great prospect for the future if they're apparent after a month of normal use.
> 
> Wanted to exchange but the owner of the store I got mine from has repeatedly advised me to return for refund rather than trying a new unit in case of disappointment, and in any case Magni 3s are currently OOS. Very sad as I assume my pot is just a particularly defective example, and the amp itself has been such a joy. Game over for now.


Um, warranty fix? Even if it's not under warranty, ask the folks at Schiit how much a repair would be...


----------



## knowhatimean

callumrd1 said:


> That would work fine.


My Magni 3 showed up yesterday afternoon, so far it's worked pretty well for me (with several $k of power filtration & Audio components sitting in front of it). Heh,heh,heh...... I don't listen to music on any type of Portable rig , so I"m honestly not that thrilled that my NightHawk & NightOwl headphones are as efficient as they are. They're somewhat a royal PITA to find a Hp amp w/ low enough gain to give me a broader range of fine volume adj. past a 9 o ' Clock volume control setting.

Unfortunately, the Magni doesn't really afford me the range I'd hoped for, but the music noisefloor is impressively very silent with it plugged into my Equi = Tech 1.5Q BPT line conditioner. I removed the LED power indicator as I remove all LED's & Optical inputs from any equipment I have. I need neither one of these in the signal paths of my components. (As an aside, I've done this for years .... just my preference). As I've mentioned this little "David" component's performance hasn't been out of place in a "Goliath" Audio setup.

The really interesting thing about the Magni is that the entire 'Gain Module / Switch" appears to be easily removable from the circuit board. Would anyone have some direction as to what & where on the Circuit Board needs to be removed to eliminate 6db of gain that would give me back at least 1/2 more of the Volume Control for a more usable adjustment range.


----------



## Tuneslover

dukeReinhardt said:


> After just over a month of owning, the pot on mine has started exhibiting this behaviour where letting it sit in the same position for a day or two gets it "stuck", and it requires moderate pressure to make the first turn after a while. It's also started making an obnoxious scratching noise through one channel as it's turned. This is in addition to the channel imbalance and "dead zone" (small amount of "play") in the pot since day 1. I've since learned that all of these things are fairly common in small analog pots, though some behaviours usually only appear after years of use, and it's probably not a great prospect for the future if they're apparent after a month of normal use.
> 
> Wanted to exchange but the owner of the store I got mine from has repeatedly advised me to return for refund rather than trying a new unit in case of disappointment, and in any case Magni 3s are currently OOS. Very sad as I assume my pot is just a particularly defective example, and the amp itself has been such a joy. Game over for now.



I'm wondering if the $99 price point is beginning to translate in QC issues.  There have been QC complaints with the $149 Loki too.


----------



## MixMasterMan

FrivolsListener said:


> Someone pointed me to that very same video on this thread as a statement on why Magni 3 wasn't any good.  I frankly don't know the amplifier he's comparing it against, so I couldn't tell if he was any good.  His description of behavior didn't make sense to me, describing a decidedly nonlinear behavior in the amp that should be easily noticeable.   I've basically waited to hear what others had to say rather than taking just one data point.  (Not that it stopped me from buying; at $100 the amp is hardly a deal-breaker if it were "bad.")



I posted this video somewhere on this thread some weeks ago. I only pointed it out, because this reviewer has experience with various kit, and has some objectivity. My personal experience with a Magni 2 echoed this guy in the video and his opinion on the Magni 3. Mainly referring to the "glaring compression". I didn't like that on the Magni 2, and asked here if the Magni 3 was any better in that regard. I don't remember getting a clear cut answer. Especially when compared to the amp I chose to keep instead of the Magni 2.


----------



## loki993

MixMasterMan said:


> I posted this video somewhere on this thread some weeks ago. I only pointed it out, because this reviewer has experience with various kit, and has some objectivity. My personal experience with a Magni 2 echoed this guy in the video and his opinion on the Magni 3. Mainly referring to the "glaring compression". I didn't like that on the Magni 2, and asked here if the Magni 3 was any better in that regard. I don't remember getting a clear cut answer. Especially when compared to the amp I chose to keep instead of the Magni 2.


 
From what I have gathered, I do not own one, they are compressed until you leave them on for a while, Ive heard anywhere from a few hours to a day. Basically from what I have gathered with Schiit stuff its better to just leave them on all the time. 

So I wonder when people say its compressed people like reviewers are just plugging them in, turning them on and reviewing them. OR other people that say are the people that turn their gear off when they are not using it.


----------



## FrivolsListener

MixMasterMan said:


> I posted this video somewhere on this thread some weeks ago. I only pointed it out, because this reviewer has experience with various kit, and has some objectivity. My personal experience with a Magni 2 echoed this guy in the video and his opinion on the Magni 3. Mainly referring to the "glaring compression". I didn't like that on the Magni 2, and asked here if the Magni 3 was any better in that regard. I don't remember getting a clear cut answer. Especially when compared to the amp I chose to keep instead of the Magni 2.



It is almost certainly you that I was talking about, then.

The thing is, I don't hear the "glaring compression," nor do I have an amp to compare it against that isn't outperformed by the Magni 3.   I would expect such non-linearity to show up in specifications or testing.

What phones are you using, and what is their impedance?


----------



## knowhatimean

FrivolsListener said:


> It is almost certainly you that I was talking about, then.
> 
> The thing is, I don't hear the "glaring compression," nor do I have an amp to compare it against that isn't outperformed by the Magni 3.   I would expect such non-linearity to show up in specifications or testing.
> 
> What phones are you using, and what is their impedance?


Fellas........ Once again you're assigning sound qualities that Amplifiers are not responsible for creating !

"Compression" is a Digital artifact that it seems many people don't recognize for what it is. Once the signal has been passed to the Analog domain any compression or lack of compression has or  hasn't been resolved in the Digital domain. Secondly, I don't think it's compression they think they're hearing but 'Jitter' or lack of. 

I'm not a Schiit Audio "Fanboy" by any means , but the Magni 3 is sounding very "respectable" to myself so far (It's still a WIP..... but I have high hopes)


----------



## FrivolsListener

knowhatimean said:


> Fellas........ Once again you're assigning sound qualities that Amplifiers are not responsible for creating !
> 
> "Compression" is a Digital artifact that it seems many people don't recognize for what it is. Once the signal has been passed to the Analog domain any compression or lack of compression has or  hasn't been resolved in the Digital domain. Secondly, I don't think it's compression they think they're hearing but 'Jitter' or lack of.
> 
> I'm not a Schiit Audio "Fanboy" by any means , but the Magni 3 is sounding very "respectable" to myself so far (It's still a WIP..... but I have high hopes)



Well, I'm not hearing what he's hearing.  But I assumed what he meant was what I'd call nonlinearity in the amplifier.  90dB dynamic range goes in, 40dB comes out.  I haven't heard anything that awful from it, but I don't have an enormous amount of experience with other amplifiers.  (6-7 amps)


----------



## JCS17

Not sure if I understand the complaint about 'compressed' sound, but here's an odd experience I have had.

I purchased a little 3116 chip amp from Parts Express just to see how they sound.  Didn't really need another amp, but for $29 it was a case of 'inquiring minds want to know.'  So I plug it into an iPad to stream Amazon music through a pair of open baffle speakers I built.  Sounded dull, flat, unmusical; don't know how to explain it any better, but seriously unlistenable.  So I just left it powered up for a couple days, then came back to it.  Now it sounded fine; certainly not the last word in amps, but eminently listenable.  A few months later, I turn everything off while I go on vacation for a couple weeks.  When I returned, power it up & listen: once again the amp sounds like new: flat, dull, unmusical.  Leave it on & the next day it sounds fine again.  I have never had a piece of gear like that before .  Now I just leave it on 24/7.  

Maybe this is what MixMasterMan is talking about?

Cheers, Jim


----------



## Mightygrey

No "compression" or non-linearity to my ears, all I hear is clean, neutral gain. Couldn't be happier with the performance and headroom from this tiny and affordable little box. Drives my HE-5's like a dream.

Usually use my Mojo to power my HD650's in the office, I brought my Magni 3 in for the day (using Mojo upstream as a DAC), and was thoroughly impressed with the clarity and lack of noise, and the ability of the Magni to make detail shine in the often "polite" upper octave or two of the Senns.


----------



## sennsay

I have become more and more impressed with my Magni 3, after some two months of use now. Yes, it was a bit flat initially, now I can just pop it on, give it a couple of minutes and it sounds brilliant. After 40+ years in this hobby I'm astonished at how good this amp is! It has now become THE amp to use with my upgraded 600 ohm (!) Sennheiser HD540 Reference headphones. I was very happy with my tube upgraded Valhalla 2 - at over 2 1/2 times the price, especially with the Amperex tubes added to the cost - and it is now so outclassed by the M3 for sheer neutrality, detail, focus and transparency, the V2 is getting little use, in fact I'm considering selling it. 
 The M3/Senn HD540R combo is grin-inducing joy from the moment I pop the cans on my head, no lack of dynamics even with these 600 ohm cans! Superb transparency from top to bottom, only very occasionally running out of ultimate steam with _*very*_ low output recordings, while still sounding clean and clear. Generally though, fabulous results with the volume set from 1-3 pm on the dial. Compression, meh. Dynamics and plenty of micro detail that totally evade the V2. In fact, I went back to the same tracks with my Focus A padded cable upgraded HifiMAN HE400S last night and was disappointed, the 3D layered life was flattened and a little bland - they seem to work better with this amp when used from the MacBook Pro into the MusicStreamer II+ DAC and then into the M3, rather than the AQ Evergreen cable from the DAC of the QP1R DAP, or from the QP1R alone, where they are excellent. 
 I've never heard such an ability to show the layers of instruments in even really dense albums such as 1 Giant Leap's "What About Me" and keep every instrument and voice sounding real and alive. I was literally jaw-dropped. And grinning madly at the same time  
 The Magni 3 is now my goto amp for the previously most 'difficult' headphones to drive properly, the Senn HD540 Reference .... and these are 30 years old this year! New pleather pads, inner driver covers and Mogami 2893 cable, brilliant! They leave all my other cans sounding almost boring and uninteresting and lacking an ability to create solid and lifelike images in space. 
 I'm not sure my new HD6XX headphones due in March will be able to compete ... considering the HD650s I've owned before still never had the joy-of-life of the HD540R's, even in their stock state, in some ways. Their slight foibles being totally ameliorated by the pad and cable upgrades.


----------



## DavidA

MixMasterMan said:


> I posted this video somewhere on this thread some weeks ago. I only pointed it out, because this reviewer has experience with various kit, and has some objectivity. My personal experience with a Magni 2 echoed this guy in the video and his opinion on the Magni 3. Mainly referring to the "glaring compression". I didn't like that on the Magni 2, and asked here if the Magni 3 was any better in that regard. I don't remember getting a clear cut answer. Especially when compared to the amp I chose to keep instead of the Magni 2.


Can you give an example of "glaring compression" and how I would know what I'm listening for since I've never seen the term used before in relation to an amp.


----------



## J-Fly

I’m testing it out now and so far I’m not impressed with the lack of power it’s sending to my Beyerdynamic DT770 80 ohms. Maybe it gets better with burn in hours. The amp sounds amazing with my Audio Technica ATH-A900x cans that don’t need amplification. I just want to verify that connecting my iPod classic to the Schiit via a 3.5 mm to male RCA cable is the best and/or only option?


----------



## loki993

J-Fly said:


> I’m testing it out now and so far I’m not impressed with the lack of power it’s sending to my Beyerdynamic DT770 80 ohms. Maybe it gets better with burn in hours. The amp sounds amazing with my Audio Technica ATH-A900x cans that don’t need amplification. I just want to verify that connecting my iPod classic to the Schiit via a 3.5 mm to male RCA cable is the best and/or only option?



The Magni 3 should be putting close to a full watt of power into the DT770s so I'm not sure how you can say it's lacking. I've powered DT770s with much less and it was plenty


----------



## RickB (Jan 25, 2018)

J-Fly said:


> I’m testing it out now and so far I’m not impressed with the lack of power it’s sending to my Beyerdynamic DT770 80 ohms. Maybe it gets better with burn in hours. The amp sounds amazing with my Audio Technica ATH-A900x cans that don’t need amplification. I just want to verify that connecting my iPod classic to the Schiit via a 3.5 mm to male RCA cable is the best and/or only option?



Back in the day, I used an LOD (line out dock) to connect an iPod classic to a portable amp. Something like these:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...TRS0&_nkw=line+out+dock+ipod+classic&_sacat=0

That would give you a line out signal that bypasses the iPod's internal amp, or so that's what was said way back when.


----------



## JamminVMI

RickB said:


> Back in the day, I used an LOD (line out dock) to connect an iPod classic to a portable amp. Something like these:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...TRS0&_nkw=line+out+dock+ipod+classic&_sacat=0
> 
> That would give you a line out signal that bypasses the iPod's internal amp, or so that's what was said way back when.


Funny, was just typing same thing. Check Fiio’s cables, they might do a line-out from lightning connector. 

Somebody ought to do one... advise if you find one, please, and good luck!


----------



## J-Fly

loki993 said:


> The Magni 3 should be putting close to a full watt of power into the DT770s so I'm not sure how you can say it's lacking. I've powered DT770s with much less and it was plenty


It's definitely putting out power no way in comparison to the FiiO E17 Alpen that I have. With the Magni 3 the sound gets muddy at half volume. The sound is better with my iPhone 6S verses the iPod Classic so I'll take that into consideration for future listening. 


RickB said:


> Back in the day, I used an LOD (line out dock) to connect an iPod classic to a portable amp. Something like these:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...TRS0&_nkw=line+out+dock+ipod+classic&_sacat=0
> 
> Maybe I need something like this? https://www.ebay.com/i/300625999931?chn=ps


----------



## RickB

J-Fly said:


> It's definitely putting out power no way in comparison to the FiiO E17 Alpen that I have. With the Magni 3 the sound gets muddy at half volume. The sound is better with my iPhone 6S verses the iPod Classic so I'll take that into consideration for future listening.



Yes, that LOD with the RCA cables should work.

Edit: I'm replying to this:

Maybe I need something like this? https://www.ebay.com/i/300625999931?chn=ps


----------



## sennsay

If the sound coming through the Magni 3 is getting muddy, then it's definitely a source issue. I can run mine with 600 ohm Sennheiser HD540Rs with the volume control almost all the way to the end stop and it remains clean and clear. The Questyle QP1R though is a far more expensive source than the iPod Classic, which I also used to own, using a short dock out adapter to take the digital signal to an amp, as as been mentioned here. That gives the purest results, though the cheap DAC is a limiting factor. In saying that, it can still sound pretty good!


----------



## sennsay

J-Fly said:


> It's definitely putting out power no way in comparison to the FiiO E17 Alpen that I have. With the Magni 3 the sound gets muddy at half volume. The sound is better with my iPhone 6S verses the iPod Classic so I'll take that into consideration for future listening.


Yes! That's exactly the sort of item I used to use, they worked well for me. The longer one is more useful, the shorter one probably higher quality


----------



## erich6

J-Fly said:


> I’m testing it out now and so far I’m not impressed with the lack of power it’s sending to my Beyerdynamic DT770 80 ohms. Maybe it gets better with burn in hours. The amp sounds amazing with my Audio Technica ATH-A900x cans that don’t need amplification. I just want to verify that connecting my iPod classic to the Schiit via a 3.5 mm to male RCA cable is the best and/or only option?



Make sure your iPod's volume is fully maxed out.  I found the Magni 3 needs to be fed a 2V signal or it won't fully open up....  I will try driving it with my iPhone this weekend to see how it works.


----------



## J-Fly

erich6 said:


> Make sure your iPod's volume is fully maxed out.  I found the Magni 3 needs to be fed a 2V signal or it won't fully open up....  I will try driving it with my iPhone this weekend to see how it works.


It sounds better with an iPhone vs an iPod.


----------



## crazychile

iPad>Bifrost MB>Magni 3>HD650 sounds great. Plenty of power. I leave it on low gain for office listening. I agree with @sennsay, if there is a muddiness issue, it's likely source related.

I actually prefer this amp to the Lyr 2 which had plenty of power but lacked clarity, and the MicroZotl 2, which was underpowered for high impedance headphones.


----------



## MixMasterMan (Jan 26, 2018)

loki993 said:


> From what I have gathered, I do not own one, they are compressed until you leave them on for a while, Ive heard anywhere from a few hours to a day. Basically from what I have gathered with Schiit stuff its better to just leave them on all the time.
> 
> So I wonder when people say its compressed people like reviewers are just plugging them in, turning them on and reviewing them. OR other people that say are the people that turn their gear off when they are not using it.



If it is a solid state amp, the sound should remain the same from when you turn it on, until you turn it off. There are no tubes that warm up. It's just an electric signal through a board with transistors and resistors.



FrivolsListener said:


> It is almost certainly you that I was talking about, then.
> 
> The thing is, I don't hear the "glaring compression," nor do I have an amp to compare it against that isn't outperformed by the Magni 3.   I would expect such non-linearity to show up in specifications or testing.
> 
> What phones are you using, and what is their impedance?



Most of what is in my sig. But it was a Magni 2, not Magni 3.



knowhatimean said:


> Fellas........ Once again you're assigning sound qualities that Amplifiers are not responsible for creating !
> 
> "Compression" is a Digital artifact that it seems many people don't recognize for what it is. Once the signal has been passed to the Analog domain any compression or lack of compression has or  hasn't been resolved in the Digital domain. Secondly, I don't think it's compression they think they're hearing but 'Jitter' or lack of.
> 
> I'm not a Schiit Audio "Fanboy" by any means , but the Magni 3 is sounding very "respectable" to myself so far (It's still a WIP..... but I have high hopes)



Compression can be analog or digital. With the Magni 2 I had, it definitely was the amp that compressed the signal/sound. I ran 3-4 sources into it, and the amp exhibited the same behavior with each source. So yeah, something in the amplifier was responsible for the compression. 



DavidA said:


> Can you give an example of "glaring compression" and how I would know what I'm listening for since I've never seen the term used before in relation to an amp.



Compression in the sense that the quiet parts of an audio section are closer in volume to the louder parts. Basically, decreased dynamic variance in the audio. Resulting in less dynamic "Space", and a sound that is more "Forward". Where the sound is more "In Your Face", "Powerful", "Alive", or "Energetic" if you find it positive. Or "Congested", "Stuffed", "Slammed", if you find it negative. Either way, it's not true to the source, and to a purist, it is detrimental. It's not the spec "this device has a 108db dynamic range". No. That's just a tech spec. Unless you want to compare the sound of a pin dropping and a rock concert sitting 10th row center, it's irrelevant.

Again, I don't have experience with the Magni 3. Only the Magni 2. I've listened to a lot of sound cards, audio interfaces, and DACs, and use compressors when I work with multi-track audio projects. So, I do know what I'm talking about, and any decrease in dynamic variance within an audio track, is called "compression".


----------



## FrivolsListener

[QUOTE="MixMasterMan, post: 14000965, member: 464566"Compression in the sense that the quiet parts of an audio section are closer in volume to the louder parts.[/QUOTE]

So, dynamic range.  I'm not hearing in in the Magni 3, but I don't know what it does if you push it to its absolute limits.  

I've been a little shocked at how loud some headphone listeners go, and I didn't consider myself to be overly conservative on volume levels.  I sat next to someone at RMAF who turned up his Schiit amp so loud it was audible through the headphones I was wearing and the piece I was listening to.  (Not to mention crowd noise.)

I don't know how M3 does in that use case.


----------



## loki993

MixMasterMan said:


> If it is a solid state amp, the sound should remain the same from when you turn it on, until you turn it off. There are no tubes that warm up. It's just an electric signal through a board with transistors and resistors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not for nothing but considering the fact that the Magni 3 is a completely different amp and topology then the M2 was you can't really make any assumption on how the M3 would sound based on impressions of the M2.

What amps do you use? What would you suggest instead of the M3?


----------



## MixMasterMan (Jan 26, 2018)

loki993 said:


> Not for nothing but considering the fact that the Magni 3 is a completely different amp and topology then the M2 was you can't really make any assumption on how the M3 would sound based on impressions of the M2.
> 
> What amps do you use? What would you suggest instead of the M3?



I haven't heard the Magni 3. So, I can't assume and haven't assumed what it sounds like. That's why I referenced that review where the guy mentioned compression. Because, that's all I remember about the Magni 2. I asked here for a comparison, and I think I got 1 or 2 replies stating that it was maybe less compressed or were unclear. Right now, I'm using a 4 channel headphone amp made by Samson (QH4). I was looking for a cleaner, more powerful, & more transparent amp than the Mackie Big Knob I was using. Basically, I wanted a direct replication of the signal coming from the line out of my RME interface (or any of my DAPs) without any character, color or taint. I picked up a M2 and QH4. I was going to use one for my studio set up, and have set up the other in another room. I expected the M2 to sound better because of the popularity, hype, and the fact it cost more, even though it was 1 channel, and had less features. Well, not only did it not, but it was clearly out performed (better sound & more volume).  I don't have a need for anything else now. The hardest to drive headphones that I have, are the DT880's, and I have plenty of juice to spare. The QH4 does what it's supposed to do without imparting any change to the sound. That's what I wanted. - I even recall someone mention on this thread that they had a QH4 and picked up an M3, but the QH4 had more gain/volume. Though as per the spec sheet, the M3 outputs more juice. So, I don't know.

It's always best to be able to compare. If you have nothing to compare to, you can't be objective. As a audio creator, I know exactly how something is supposed to sound. So, it's easy for me to clearly identify any changes that happen when a piece of gear is added to the chain. I test using my own tracks.

If people here are happy with their M3, awesome. More power to them. All I cared to know about, was if it sounded compressed like the M2. Apparently, it does, but not as much. What else I've gathered so far (from memory)? - That it's not as hot in the upper mids/low treble. There may be a roll off at the top. And that the Bass is a tiny bit more present. - General consensus is helpful.


----------



## MixMasterMan (Jan 26, 2018)

FrivolsListener said:


> [QUOTE="MixMasterMan, post: 14000965, member: 464566"Compression in the sense that the quiet parts of an audio section are closer in volume to the louder parts.
> 
> So, dynamic range.  I'm not hearing in in the Magni 3, but I don't know what it does if you push it to its absolute limits.
> 
> ...



Yes. Dynamic range. We are talking maybe 2db, give or take, of compression in the signal (at least on the M2, taking a guess. I didn't measure it)


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Has anyone performed or even heard about any DIY mods to the Magni 3 yet? Or even an older Magni? How easy are they to work on?

I'm not looking to boost the power or anything like that, I just want to shunt the volume pot out of the circuit and possibly boost the input impedance from 25k ohms to 50k ohms. The pot shunt is pretty straightforward, but changing the input impedance may have other consequences that would need to be accounted for.


----------



## hagenhays

Are there any comparisons to the asgard 2? I know that's class A and hotter, but I'm trying to find the best power solution for the hd6xx sennis. 

Leaning strongly towards the magni 3, but am Leary if a new asgard 3 might pop up in the next year, and be the latest greatest toy. At this point $99 easily trumps $250, especially if the sound is similar.

Think I will give it a few months. I have the vali 2 which I love, provides enough power, now I'm looking to have a solid state to bring out more details vs warmth. Also would like the power for 300 ohms to approach 500mw vs 270 or so it gets from vali 2.

All suggestions welcome. I am not interested in the jot.


----------



## DavidA

hagenhays said:


> Are there any comparisons to the asgard 2? I know that's class A and hotter, but I'm trying to find the best power solution for the hd6xx sennis.
> 
> Leaning strongly towards the magni 3, but am Leary if a new asgard 3 might pop up in the next year, and be the latest greatest toy. At this point $99 easily trumps $250, especially if the sound is similar.
> 
> ...


The Asgard2 is a more appropriate amp for the HD650/HD6XX to me since the Magni3 is a touch on the warm side to me while the Asgard2 is neutral/slightly bright.  But I'd still rather have a BH Crack with the right tubes for the HD650.


----------



## hagenhays

DavidA said:


> The Asgard2 is a more appropriate amp for the HD650/HD6XX to me since the Magni3 is a touch on the warm side to me while the Asgard2 is neutral/slightly bright.  But I'd still rather have a BH Crack with the right tubes for the HD650.


I would prefer brighter. The vali 2 already covers warm rolled off analog sounding....I do not need 2 of the same sound signatures.
Guess I will see if an Asgard 3 comes out.
Thanks!!!


----------



## sennsay

hagenhays said:


> I would prefer brighter. The vali 2 already covers warm rolled off analog sounding....I do not need 2 of the same sound signatures.
> Guess I will see if an Asgard 3 comes out.
> Thanks!!!


Interesting (genuinely) that you find the Magni 3 to be 'warm', I find it incredibly neutral with both my Sennheiser HD540 Ref1s and HifiMAN HE400S. Maybe it's a cable thing too, I use pure silver cables if I'm using the MusicStreamer II+ DAC as a source from the laptop, or an Audioquest Evergreen cable from the DAC of the Questyle QP1R. Maybe the HD650/HD6XX needs a slightly 'crisper' amp to compensate for the HD6...'s natural warmth? I will be fascinated to hear what my HD6XX sound like with my M3 when they arrive in March.


----------



## knowhatimean

sennsay said:


> Interesting (genuinely) that you find the Magni 3 to be 'warm', I find it incredibly neutral with both my Sennheiser HD540 Ref1s and HifiMAN HE400S. Maybe it's a cable thing too, I use pure silver cables if I'm using the MusicStreamer II+ DAC as a source from the laptop, or an Audioquest Evergreen cable from the DAC of the Questyle QP1R. Maybe the HD650/HD6XX needs a slightly 'crisper' amp to compensate for the HD6...'s natural warmth? I will be fascinated to hear what my HD6XX sound like with my M3 when they arrive in March.


Well,I'm back on the fence again about how I feel about the Magni 3 .

From what I've been reading about the Magni 2,here, it sounds like it might have been a better match for my needs;"more power" is not really something that many listeners using traditional Analog DACs with separate Headphone Amps need as the DAC output is completely sufficient regardless of whatever type headphone is going to be used. Calling 6dB a "Low gain" setting is a bit silly as far as I'm concerned....but the Magni 3 sounds very respectable with the limited amount of Volume control adjustment (8:30 ~ 9 o'Clock setting) available.... So I'm seeing how patient I can be with making "Micro Incremental" adjustments on a Analog volume control.

"Warm, rolled off Analog Sound" speaks "Volumes" to myself. (You really don't want to know how "Artificially boosted" most Digital sounds to me.... calling it Neutral is pretty hilarious to "this old fart") . It's most Source Material people choose to listen to that's "Broken" not the Messenger.


----------



## FrivolsListener

knowhatimean said:


> Well,I'm back on the fence again about how I feel about the Magni 3 .
> 
> From what I've been reading about the Magni 2,here, it sounds like it might have been a better match for my needs;"more power" is not really something that many listeners using traditional Analog DACs with separate Headphone Amps need *as the DAC output is completely sufficient regardless of whatever type headphone is going to be used*.



I would argue that.  The Fulla series has trouble driving Sennheiser HD6x0/HD800 headphones.  



knowhatimean said:


> "Warm, rolled off Analog Sound" speaks "Volumes" to myself. (You really don't want to know how "Artificially boosted" most Digital sounds to me.... calling it Neutral is pretty hilarious to "this old fart") . It's most Source Material people choose to listen to that's "Broken" not the Messenger.



I personally think he's overstating it.  It's not (to me) like it sounds tubby or rolled off or even tube-y.  Not in the least.

But read someone else's opinion: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/schiit-magni-3-affordable-headphone-amp-and-preamp

Or try one.  Getting one means you can return it easily (minus the $15 restocking fee).  That's not a huge layout to try it,  unless you are a starving student.


----------



## knowhatimean (Jan 31, 2018)

FrivolsListener said:


> I would argue that.  The Fulla series has trouble driving Sennheiser HD6x0/HD800 headphones.
> 
> Heh,heh,heh..........You seriously don't consider the "Fulla" series (which is a "DAC/Amp" combo) a 'Traditional' Analog or 'Component' level DAC do you ? (You honestly have to read all the words between the lines)
> 
> ...


In case you haven't been following the thread..... I have a Magni 3..... & by "on the fence" I'm not saying I don't like it. I'm saying it could be a bit less geared toward only "New Tech" or "Newbie" users.

New is only new !


----------



## J-Fly

I was supposed to be looking for a LOD cable to experiment with a better connection between the Magni 3 and my iPod Classic. I got sidetracked with impulse shopping and bought this: https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PIDOCK1-Universal-Docking-Charging/dp/B0056IB3DY

There is no difference in the sound quality so I ordered this from eBay and will report back on my research: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3ft-1M-LIN...250956?hash=item43cb65bc0c:g:EB8AAOSwrmdTp56L


----------



## sennsay

knowhatimean said:


> Well,I'm back on the fence again about how I feel about the Magni 3 .
> 
> From what I've been reading about the Magni 2,here, it sounds like it might have been a better match for my needs;"more power" is not really something that many listeners using traditional Analog DACs with separate Headphone Amps need as the DAC output is completely sufficient regardless of whatever type headphone is going to be used. Calling 6dB a "Low gain" setting is a bit silly as far as I'm concerned....but the Magni 3 sounds very respectable with the limited amount of Volume control adjustment (8:30 ~ 9 o'Clock setting) available.... So I'm seeing how patient I can be with making "Micro Incremental" adjustments on a Analog volume control.
> 
> "Warm, rolled off Analog Sound" speaks "Volumes" to myself. (You really don't want to know how "Artificially boosted" most Digital sounds to me.... calling it Neutral is pretty hilarious to "this old fart") . It's most Source Material people choose to listen to that's "Broken" not the Messenger.


Pretty much tend to agree, though this lad would never call 'artificially boosted' digital neutral, not a sound I like, it's why I chose the Questyle QP1R over many of the others. My Senn HD540 Ref1s sound natural, alive and with all parts of the sound balance of the Magni 3 to be equally harmonious, to me that's neutral. Not bright, not rolled off. That's a good way of putting it actually, "The source material 'broken' "  In fact I love my 600 ohm Senns so much with the Magni 3, I've just sold my Valhalla 2 to buy a Mimby. Listening to the V2 again last night after getting well used to the M3, came as a shock, even with some very nice tubes installed! Despite the wide imaging and relative openness, gone was the utter electrical silence where you could hear a pin drop in an audience, located in precise space, gone the truly natural fine detail that tells me this is a living flesh and blood Being singing into a microphone, the subtle instrument detailing that tells you instantly the difference between cymbals being struck right at the top or two inches away ... I could go on as this applies to virtually all aspects of the M3 with the Senn HD540s. Yes, the V2 has ultimately more power - double actually - but that's all and I get plenty of grunt out of the M3 to listen to virtually anything with a decent range of volume control, anything from 11:30 to 3:30 and the beauty is the sound balance doesn't change, it stays 'neutral' heh heh  Mimby comes tomorrow.


----------



## callumrd1

Do report back once you've had some time with the Mimby-Magni combo.


----------



## sennsay

callumrd1 said:


> Do report back once you've had some time with the Mimby-Magni combo.


I shall indeed. Very intrigued to hear how the Mimby works with the QP1R as a silent source (there's no HD as in the laptop, or USB noise)! Excited.


----------



## Voxata (Jan 31, 2018)

MixMasterMan said:


> If it is a solid state amp, the sound should remain the same from when you turn it on, until you turn it off. There are no tubes that warm up. It's just an electric signal through a board with transistors and resistors.



I do not find this to be a fact. Asgard for example changes in sound until the natural operational temp is reached. My Jot, when stone cold is harsher.. Think about DACs - the multibit DACs from Schiit are left on to stay at an optimal temp for desired sound quality. I always leave my schiit amp/dac on. Less power cycles, less heat/cool cycles, more reliability - always ready to go  - There are some that do NOT have this issue. My Ifi iDSD BL sounds the exact same from being turned on to being on for hours.


----------



## bixby

knowhatimean said:


> Well,I'm back on the fence again about how I feel about the Magni 3 .
> 
> From what I've been reading about the Magni 2,here, it sounds like it might have been a better match for my needs;"more power" is not really something that many listeners using traditional Analog DACs with separate Headphone Amps need as the DAC output is completely sufficient regardless of whatever type headphone is going to be used. Calling 6dB a "Low gain" setting is a bit silly as far as I'm concerned....but the Magni 3 sounds very respectable with the limited amount of Volume control adjustment (8:30 ~ 9 o'Clock setting) available.... So I'm seeing how patient I can be with making "Micro Incremental" adjustments on a Analog volume control.
> 
> "Warm, rolled off Analog Sound" speaks "Volumes" to myself. (You really don't want to know how "Artificially boosted" most Digital sounds to me.... calling it Neutral is pretty hilarious to "this old fart") . It's most Source Material people choose to listen to that's "Broken" not the Messenger.



I heard the Magni 2 with my cans just before buying the Magni 3.  The 2 is warmer in the upper bass/ lower mids and has less bite in the lower treble, also seems less open overall to me than the new 3. And I also agree that 6db gain is not really low.  Running low gain with the Magni 3 and a dac that outputs a standard 2v, I am about at 11 o'clock for listening with HD-600s.  Unlike some who prefer the high gain setting, I think it sounds compressed and prefer the dynamic shading of low gain more.

If too little play is found on the volume pot, I really don't think you would lose anything audible if you turn down the software volume (if using a computer) by 1 db or so.  I know Foobar does not seem to be throwing away any bits I can hear and it may help with intersample overs.





FrivolsListener said:


> I would argue that.  The Fulla series has trouble driving Sennheiser HD6x0/HD800 headphones.
> 
> 
> I personally think he's overstating it.  It's not (to me) like it sounds tubby or rolled off or even tube-y.  Not in the least.
> ...



Trying is pricey from a percentage standpoint.  Remember, to Colorado I pay $13 shipping and would lose that and the return $13 shipping plus the $15 restock or $41 total.  That is a decent % of the price of the unit, by itself.


----------



## Voxata

The Magni 3 makes modded 6X0 shine bright. However, it does not have enough power to bring out the immense bass the Jot is capable of - on a tight budget though the M3 really does well as a stop-gap.


----------



## joeexp (Feb 1, 2018)

Like the 6X0 have such immense bass ...
LOL

Single-ended:
Magni 3 | Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 430mW RMS per channel
Jotunheim | Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 350mW RMS per channel
Chord Hugo 3 | 300 ohms: 94mW


----------



## MixMasterMan

Voxata said:


> I do not find this to be a fact. Asgard for example changes in sound until the natural operational temp is reached. My Jot, when stone cold is harsher.. Think about DACs - the multibit DACs from Schiit are left on to stay at an optimal temp for desired sound quality. I always leave my schiit amp/dac on. Less power cycles, less heat/cool cycles, more reliability - always ready to go  - There are some that do NOT have this issue. My Ifi iDSD BL sounds the exact same from being turned on to being on for hours.



I'll go a step further. I play guitar. I've played many solid state amps over the last 20 years? - NOT ONE has changed in tone/sound due to "warming up". They stay and sound the same, for YEARS. I say this with all due respect, if there is a change, it is either in your head, or something is wrong with the unit. Solid State is solid state. A well designed SS unit should stay the same from instant it turns on, until you turn it off. Saying that SS audio devices will get better in sound quality by warming up, is like saying that the sound will change depending on what brand USB cable you use. - And DAC's being left on to stay at an optimal temp for sound quality?! - Ok, for less power cycles/wear & tear, I can understand that. I leave my interface on all the time as I don't want to burn out the power supply. But sound quality? Bro, its a DAC. A small chip does the conversion. Heat is the last thing that can/will affect a DAC's performance. - 

I know there is a psychological effect when you feel when your audio device gets nice and toasty. It goes right to your head, and you think there is a difference. It used to happen to me too. It's kind of like the effect of having 2 speakers that sound EXACTLY the same, but you think the one that is "better" is the one that is more expensive and/or more aesthetically pleasing.   

I swear, I really do think we need verified electrical engineers & physics professors to come here and dispel myths. Anybody got Bill Nye's number?


----------



## RickB

MixMasterMan said:


> I'll go a step further. I play guitar. I've played many solid state amps over the last 20 years? - NOT ONE has changed in tone/sound due to "warming up". They stay and sound the same, for YEARS. I say this with all due respect, if there is a change, it is either in your head, or something is wrong with the unit. Solid State is solid state. A well designed SS unit should stay the same from instant it turns on, until you turn it off. Saying that SS audio devices will get better in sound quality by warming up, is like saying that the sound will change depending on what brand USB cable you use. - And DAC's being left on to stay at an optimal temp for sound quality?! - Ok, for less power cycles/wear & tear, I can understand that. I leave my interface on all the time as I don't want to burn out the power supply. But sound quality? Bro, its a DAC. A small chip does the conversion. Heat is the last thing that can/will affect a DAC's performance. -
> 
> I know there is a psychological effect when you feel when your audio device gets nice and toasty. It goes right to your head, and you think there is a difference. It used to happen to me too. It's kind of like the effect of having 2 speakers that sound EXACTLY the same, but you think the one that is "better" is the one that is more expensive and/or more aesthetically pleasing.
> 
> I swear, I really do think we need verified electrical engineers & physics professors to come here and dispel myths. Anybody got Bill Nye's number?



Mike Moffat has stated that his multibit DACs need to warm up to reach optimal operating temperature. I think I'll take his word over yours. Plus the numerous amount of people who have stated that the sound changes as the DACs warm up points to it being a thing. But of course, you are entitled to your "opinion".


----------



## Voxata (Feb 1, 2018)

MixMasterMan said:


> I'll go a step further. I play guitar. I've played many solid state amps over the last 20 years? - NOT ONE has changed in tone/sound due to "warming up". They stay and sound the same, for YEARS. I say this with all due respect, if there is a change, it is either in your head, or something is wrong with the unit. Solid State is solid state. A well designed SS unit should stay the same from instant it turns on, until you turn it off. Saying that SS audio devices will get better in sound quality by warming up, is like saying that the sound will change depending on what brand USB cable you use. - And DAC's being left on to stay at an optimal temp for sound quality?! - Ok, for less power cycles/wear & tear, I can understand that. I leave my interface on all the time as I don't want to burn out the power supply. But sound quality? Bro, its a DAC. A small chip does the conversion. Heat is the last thing that can/will affect a DAC's performance. -
> 
> I know there is a psychological effect when you feel when your audio device gets nice and toasty. It goes right to your head, and you think there is a difference. It used to happen to me too. It's kind of like the effect of having 2 speakers that sound EXACTLY the same, but you think the one that is "better" is the one that is more expensive and/or more aesthetically pleasing.
> 
> I swear, I really do think we need verified electrical engineers & physics professors to come here and dispel myths. Anybody got Bill Nye's number?



My speaker amp is the same from turning on to on for days, so is my iDSD. The difference is easy to tell for my Multibit dacs. Asgard was easy to tell for me as well. Maybe you should try some different gear known to require warmups so instead of assuming you can speak from experience. I don't believe in sub zero frozen cables but I do use shielded cabling, it was a negligible difference in cost so why not. No difference on that front for me though, if I lived near a radio station perhaps it would matter.

Guitar and pro amps are much different than what we are dealing with here. I see your gear listing, which shows nothing that could relate to the other side of your formed opinion.


----------



## MixMasterMan

RickB said:


> Mike Moffat has stated that his multibit DACs need to warm up to reach optimal operating temperature. I think I'll take his word over yours. Plus the numerous amount of people who have stated that the sound changes as the DACs warm up points to it being a thing. But of course, you are entitled to your "opinion".



Duly noted. I'm still very skeptical about how much of a difference a certain amount of heat going through a resistor is going to make. If someone can point to A/B comparison's, I'd appreciate it. 



Voxata said:


> My speaker amp is the same from turning on to on for days, so is my iDSD. The difference is easy to tell for my Multibit dacs. Asgard was easy to tell for me as well. Maybe you should try some different gear known to require warmups so instead of assuming you can speak from experience. I don't believe in sub zero frozen cables but I do use shielded cabling, it was a negligible difference in cost so why not. No difference on that front for me though, if I lived near a radio station perhaps it would matter.
> 
> Guitar and pro amps are much different than what we are dealing with here. I see your gear listing, which shows nothing that could relate to the other side of your formed opinion.



I wasn't going to start putting ALL my gear, or former owned gear, on a headphone forum sig, but I hear what you're saying. I speak from experience, but no, I haven't heard every piece of gear out there. I'm just skeptical about warmup times for certain pieces of kit. Apparently, some DAC's perform best after a full day of warming up. Well, blow me down.

Again, I'd love to hear A/B comparisons of kit COLD vs WARMED UP. Can someone please provide some examples? - maybe YouTube or something?


----------



## Voxata

MixMasterMan said:


> Duly noted. I'm still very skeptical about how much of a difference a certain amount of heat going through a resistor is going to make. If someone can point to A/B comparison's, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



From my experience it's a bit harsh and congested on the MB dacs from stone cold. The Asgard is the most pronounced SS amp warmup difference I've heard. It's not crap when cold it just gets slightly better. No examples, just well documented.


----------



## DavidA

Voxata said:


> From my experience it's a bit harsh and congested on the MB dacs from stone cold. The Asgard is the most pronounced SS amp warmup difference I've heard. It's not crap when cold it just gets slightly better. No examples, just well documented.


Maybe I don't hear as well but my Asgard2 has never changed in sound from first on to warmed up over a day but I can tell that some tubes do need to warm up a little (5 to 10 minutes) before they stabilize.


----------



## Jerda

Someone has tried the Arcam rHead? There's no info of when the m3 will be available in EU and I'm waiting from December.... right now I'm thinking to get an used arcam rhead for like 100€ instead the magni3... someone can do some comparison?


----------



## Voxata (Feb 1, 2018)

DavidA said:


> Maybe I don't hear as well but my Asgard2 has never changed in sound from first on to warmed up over a day but I can tell that some tubes do need to warm up a little (5 to 10 minutes) before they stabilize.


Give it a shot with your 560. I noted the difference on that can and my DT770 - I no longer own the amp though. The A1 was even more so (that amp I miss, I liked it more than the A2) though and I trust your experience.

--edit did some research, most people talking about Asgard needing to warm up are referring to the 1st one - which is the one I'd turn off and on always and notice the difference. I may have inferred it to the 2 as I never turned that sucker off during my ownership because of my experience with the 1st - my bad! YMMV but it'd sound a bit flat cold and gain literal depth and warmth once warm. No other amp I've owned has been like this. The Jot for me when nice and toasty is just slightly less steely - though that was BAL with the 560. Using my LCD2C I can't tell.


----------



## J-Fly

Well it looks like I should have been a little more patient. I sent my Magni 3 back for a refund. I then decided to do more research on my cans and discovered that hair on the driver of the DT 770s is common. I removed the hairs and did some serious cleaning around the housing and my muddled sound problem is gone. But of course now I don’t have the amp anymore.


----------



## sennsay

J-Fly said:


> Well it looks like I should have been a little more patient. I sent my Magni 3 back for a refund. I then decided to do more research on my cans and discovered that hair on the driver of the DT 770s is common. I removed the hairs and did some serious cleaning around the housing and my muddled sound problem is gone. But of course now I don’t have the amp anymore.


Oh dude .. sigh  Are you going to get another M3? I've added a Mimby a few days ago which has already had some 45 hours on it and combined with the Magni 3 I am getting the most stunning results with a pair of Sennheiser HD540 Ref1 headphones. I won't repeat my findings here, if you want to read on what you may be missing out on, just head over to the thread entitled "Wow! Sennheiser HD 540 Reference are so good ..". Yes, I use really good pure silver cables an an interconnect - I've had them as my reference for years in the main system - and optical out from the Questyle QP1R, a purer source than the USB out of the MacBook Pro (though it still sounds excellent) - but the results are worth it. The Mimby/Magni 3 combo is worth it! The Senn HD540 Ref1 headphones are so good here, _even at 600 ohms_, that I can't stand listening to the drop in performance of the HifiMAN HE400S cans with the set up (they're brilliant with the QP1R as a DAP though!). 
I'm talking about experiencing a music event here, not listening to hifi. The Schiit combo as I have it here, defies the use of electronics. Music dances from the Ref1s. Intellectually dissecting the performance is virtually impossible, music sounds _of a piece. Alive _with communication, fabulous timing and rhythm, although these are the finest attributes of the HD540s too. 
 Give the Magni 3 another go if you're so inspired


----------



## almarti

HAS ANyone tested M3 with Mimby and Ether Flow?
I am considering buying a sub $500 tube headphone amp but M3 could be a great choice


----------



## Kevin Tam

From what I read from the previous posts, it seems like with the new volume pot on Magni 3, the volume gets loud very quickly.
Does this mean that low impedance/high sensitivity headphones could suffer from channel imbalance.  Does anyone know how Audio-Technica headphones would pair with the M3?
I am using a pair of A2000X.

Thanks!!


----------



## henree

I just got through listening to my He-400 planar headphones. And it is a terrible combination. There is no bass at all. Even with high gain and the volume pot to the max. The sound is very thin.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

This was true with even the old magni 2.  

If your source outputs 1.5V you'll probably be fine.  Full 2V?  You'll probably have to lower the volume digitally or spend tons of money on an impedence adapter


----------



## sennsay

No no, other way around, dudes  The pot is designed to ramp up more gently from zero, to make for easier volume adjustments.


----------



## sennsay

henree said:


> I just got through listening to my He-400 planar headphones. And it is a terrible combination. There is no bass at all. Even with high gain and the volume pot to the max. The sound is very thin.


And did you switch the gain to high with the switch on the back? I occasionally use my HE400S with the Magni 3 and certainly don't have that issue. Are you using a DAC with 2V output? Or something with a lot less, like a phone, iPod or similar? Admittedly, the HE400S is a little more efficient.


----------



## Kevin Tam

henree said:


> I just got through listening to my He-400 planar headphones. And it is a terrible combination. There is no bass at all. Even with high gain and the volume pot to the max. The sound is very thin.



Wow that's a surprise.  I was gonna collect a pair of 4XX and pair them with the M3.  Yikes.



SomeTechNoob said:


> This was true with even the old magni 2.
> 
> If your source outputs 1.5V you'll probably be fine.  Full 2V?  You'll probably have to lower the volume digitally or spend tons of money on an impedence adapter



Ah okok.  I'm using a TDA1543 based DAC which has a weaker output.  I think I'll be fine then.  Thanks!


sennsay said:


> No no, other way around, dudes  The pot is designed to ramp up more gently from zero, to make for easier volume adjustments.


Hey man, ya I'm reading mixed opinions on this.  I remember Schiit clearly claimed that they made improvements to the pot, but some also said that they had trouble powering their cans right.
I see that you own the HE400S and the M3.  Do you mind sharing your impressions on this combo?

Thanks


----------



## sennsay (Feb 7, 2018)

Kevin Tam said:


> Wow that's a surprise.  I was gonna collect a pair of 4XX and pair them with the M3.  Yikes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I did buy the M3 specifically for the HE400S and if I'm using the MusicStreamer II+ DAC from the MacBook Pro with some nice cables the sound is rather good. using the coaxial signal out from the DAC of the Questyle QP1R not quite so much. Same now that I have a Mimby (Modi Multibit DAC), my 29 year old Sennheiser 600 ohm HD540 Ref1cans with Mogami cable and pleather pads are so superior in openness and sheer life that I can barely stand the more closed in sound of the HE400S with that combo, even though for many folks it would be terrific! It's good .. but better with the MusicStreamer II+ combo, not that that particular DAC is better than the Mimby, it most certainly isn't (!), but the blend of short pure silver ribbon cables and the M3 is a better balance for the HE400S to my ears. The HifiMANs _*are*_ excellent with the QP1R on it's own though! I use an Audioquest Evergreen 3.5mm to RCA cable from the QP1R to the Magni and it's excellent ... but the Mimby, superb! Effortless and natural life, with plenty of fine detail that is never in your face, smooth, even and hypnotically addictive with the Senn HD540 Ref1s! Oh my!
the HE400S need the Focus A pads to come alive in the bass and detail focus is more explicit as well.
 The Magni 3 is a brilliant bit of kit! There are a couple of on-line reviews posted above here somewhere, I posted them yesterday and there are a couple of others too. I'm still aghast at it's abilities and not only for the money, _*far*_ beyond it's cost! Add a Mimby and some good cables, I'm stunned. Not everyone agrees and that's cool  My experience is as stated and knockout with the HD540 Ref1s. BTW, I use the QP1R as a source mostly, optical out to the Mimby, which gives utterly silent running even at max volume. The M3 performs as well at the 3 o'clock position as it does down the range. The gear is so quiet that the tiniest sounds can be heard suspended in space, at times surprising me with details I'd never heard before.


----------



## Hofy

Just got tracking notice from Schiit for my M3!  It will be here Saturday.


----------



## sennsay

Hofy said:


> Just got tracking notice from Schiit for my M3!  It will be here Saturday.


Excellent! It'll sound a bit up tight initially, but give it a few days and it will be sweet.


----------



## DavidA

henree said:


> I just got through listening to my He-400 planar headphones. And it is a terrible combination. There is no bass at all. Even with high gain and the volume pot to the max. The sound is very thin.


What was your previous amp and was it better or worse than the Magni3?  While I didn't try a HE400 on my friends Magni3 I did try my HE400i and it was quite nice, the bass was there, about like what I get with my Ember and Asgard2.


----------



## sennsay (Feb 7, 2018)

DavidA said:


> What was your previous amp and was it better or worse than the Magni3?  While I didn't try a HE400 on my friends Magni3 I did try my HE400i and it was quite nice, the bass was there, about like what I get with my Ember and Asgard2.


My previous (latest) amp cost over twice that of the M3, the Schiit Valhalla 2, _with_ really nice input tubes. With the HD540 Ref1s the Magni cleaned it up, shocked me initially, then I found the M3 was getting all the time with the Senns, so I sold the V2 and bought a Mimby instead, with change to spare  Best trade! The Magni 3 was significantly more transparent from top to bottom, had superior fine detail retrieval and focus, with a joy of life that is utterly addicted! No contest eventually, despite the fact that before I started to use the Ref1s for longer than a few minutes initially, I was really enjoying the V2. It didn't take long before the M3 was the only show in town and that was _*before*_ the Mimby!


----------



## henree

sennsay said:


> And did you switch the gain to high with the switch on the back? I occasionally use my HE400S with the Magni 3 and certainly don't have that issue. Are you using a DAC with 2V output? Or something with a lot less, like a phone, iPod or similar? Admittedly, the HE400S is a little more efficient.


Using High Gain. I use the Schitt DAC Bifrost Multibit upgrade. Schiit EITR to mac mini. Audirvana is my software player. The bass is non existent with the Magni3. I have had a hard time getting bass out of any of my modern day headphones amps. Including the Matrix, and Little Dot Hybrid. When using the HE-400. The only thing that sounds good, is old school integrated receivers. I am using a Nad from 1984. My Denon D7000 though, sings with the Magni3.


----------



## sennsay (Feb 7, 2018)

henree said:


> Using High Gain. I use the Schitt DAC Bifrost Multibit upgrade. Schiit EITR to mac mini. Audirvana is my software player. The bass is non existent with the Magni3. I have had a hard time getting bass out of any of my modern day headphones amps. Including the Matrix, and Little Dot Hybrid. When using the HE-400. The only thing that sounds good, is old school integrated receivers. I am using a Nad from 1984. My Denon D7000 though, sings with the Magni3.


Gotcha, so the HE400 needs some serious erg power! The HE400S is far more efficient and I get loads of power, bass included, with the Magni 3. I still much prefer my fab 'old' HD540 Ref1s though   Son of Bifrost Multibit (Mimby) is a chip off the old block! 
 I have the earlier Denon AH-D1000 cans with the Merkel mods and they sound great with the M3 too! Still love those Denons, the way they can soak up midrange energy without going to harshness is fantastic.


----------



## almarti

Has anyone tested Ether Flow with Magni 3 and Mimby?
I am doubting about Lyr 2 or Magni 3.
I already own Mimby and Ether Flow, but Ether Flow only used with Mijo and want to expand it with a headphone amp in living room.


----------



## MustangVxD

FYI Inexperienced user here.
I'm currently using and original magni/modi combination with the HiFiMan HE400.
The sound is enjoyable but around the 1 o'clock volume mark the sound seems to struggle with bass heavy music (lossless edm).
*I have boosted the low end a slight bit with foobar to give me a little more oomph*
I'm wondering if the Magni 3 will alleviate this issue or would I be wasting my money?  (Schiit support couldn't answer my question)
Thanks for any opinions.


----------



## crazychile

I bought the HE-400 a few years ago to use with the original Vali. They didn't sound right. I upgraded to the Lyr 2 and they still didn't sound right. Got rid of the HE-400 and could never get what all the hype was about. Used the Lyr 2 for a couple years with a variety of headphones and generally enjoyed it until I got a MicroZotl 2 w/LPS. The MicroZotl was far more transparent and sounded really good, but didn't have enough balls for higher impedance headphones like the HD-650. Bought a Magni 3 for the office system. I thought it was every bit as good as the MicroZotl, but enough power to drive almost anything easily.

The Magi 3 is now my main amp for dynamic headphones. I can't see wanting anything else short of a very expensive end game amp that might be a little better for a ton more money. Unless Schiit pulls off another insane jump in performance on a <$300 amp like a revised Asgard type product that has a lot of power.


----------



## bixby (Feb 7, 2018)

MustangVxD said:


> FYI Inexperienced user here.
> I'm currently using and original magni/modi combination with the HiFiMan HE400.
> The sound is enjoyable but around the 1 o'clock volume mark the sound seems to struggle with bass heavy music (lossless edm).
> *I have boosted the low end a slight bit with foobar to give me a little more oomph*
> ...



Your best bet is to get the HFMan A pads.  Does much more for the bass than eq.  Assuming you have the 400s or maybe look into whether these pads will fit the regular 400.  As for Magni3 low end vs Magni 2.  3 is tighter than 2 but still a bit soft and is not a sub bass monster.  It is also cleaner in the lower mids where the 2s bass can infringe on the mids.  Overall a more open amp.  As for wasting money, we are talking about $115 amp, so maybe you get $60 for the 2.  $55 upgrade with freight, only you can decide.



crazychile said:


> The Magi 3 is now my main amp for dynamic headphones. I can't see wanting anything else short of a very expensive end game amp that might be a little better for a ton more money. Unless Schiit pulls off another insane jump in performance on a <$300 amp like a revised Asgard type product that has a lot of power.



Yes the Magni 3 is crazy good, but there are steps in between "very expensive" end game amps for a ton more money.  And you do have to spend many times more than the $115 Magni 3.  But there are satisfying stops on the way up to crazy price land.  I have retired my Magni3 for the time being due to one of those steps.  Still may press it into service in my desktop work machine.


----------



## Kevin Tam

bixby said:


> Your best bet is to get the HFMan A pads.  Does much more for the bass than eq.  Assuming you have the 400s or maybe look into whether these pads will fit the regular 400.  As for Magni3 low end vs Magni 2.  3 is tighter than 2 but still a bit soft and is not a sub bass monster.  It is also cleaner in the lower mids where the 2s bass can infringe on the mids.  Overall a more open amp.  As for wasting money, we are talking about $115 amp, so maybe you get $60 for the 2.  $55 upgrade with freight, only you can decide.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the Magni 3 is crazy good, but there are steps in between "very expensive" end game amps for a ton more money.  And you do have to spend many times more than the $115 Magni 3.  But there are satisfying stops on the way up to crazy price land.  I have retired my Magni3 for the time being due to one of those steps.  Still may press it into service in my desktop work machine.



Just curious, after retiring the magni3, which amp are you currently using?  
Thanks


----------



## bixby (Feb 7, 2018)

Musical Fidelity M1-HPA


----------



## sennsay

MustangVxD said:


> FYI Inexperienced user here.
> I'm currently using and original magni/modi combination with the HiFiMan HE400.
> The sound is enjoyable but around the 1 o'clock volume mark the sound seems to struggle with bass heavy music (lossless edm).
> *I have boosted the low end a slight bit with foobar to give me a little more oomph*
> ...


From what I've heard here, you might indeed be wasting your time with the Magni 3. Schiit probably haven't heard the HE400 with any of their amps, hence the reply. It seems my M3 can power even my 600 ohm Senns much better than the HE400. However, I think someone may have suggested the Focus A pads for your HE400 and they have certainly and significantly changed my HE400S for the better. It would be your cheapest option and you just might get a surprise  The Magni 3 is by all accounts (and from Schiit themselves) a better amp than the M2, a totally different design. I haven't heard the Magni 2.


----------



## DavidA (Feb 7, 2018)

henree said:


> Using High Gain. I use the Schitt DAC Bifrost Multibit upgrade. Schiit EITR to mac mini. Audirvana is my software player. The bass is non existent with the Magni3. I have had a hard time getting bass out of any of my modern day headphones amps. Including the Matrix, and Little Dot Hybrid. When using the HE-400. The only thing that sounds good, is old school integrated receivers. I am using a Nad from 1984. My Denon D7000 though, sings with the Magni3.


I have found that my old NAD 3020 (1982) works well with my HE400 but it also sounds really good on my newer Sony ES receiver along with the headphone jack of my Teac UD-301, Asgard2, Lyr2 and Ember.  If you are missing the bass I'd suggest changing the ear pads if you haven't done so to Ori, Focus-A or Dekoni sheepskin, and install some attenuation rings, these mods make my HE400 into basshead cans and if you want even better then add sorbothane in the cups and install a more open grill with a rubber patch in the middle to bring up the mids.   Before doing the mods I also felt that the bass was a little lacking.  I've also changed the ear pad mounting ring to the newer aluminum version which has notches in it so the tabs on the pads don't spin around.

@MustangVxD, see what I wrote above.  I think you will benefit from the sorbothane since it seems like you are getting distortion due to vibration of the housing which the sorbothane will help clean up.


----------



## DJ The Rocket (Feb 8, 2018)

Kevin Tam said:


> From what I read from the previous posts, it seems like with the new volume pot on Magni 3, the volume gets loud very quickly.
> Does this mean that low impedance/high sensitivity headphones could suffer from channel imbalance.  Does anyone know how Audio-Technica headphones would pair with the M3?
> I am using a pair of A2000X.
> 
> Thanks!!



What's this about a new volume pot? The old crappy, noisy pot was why I sold mine, but I've been thinking about getting a new one and just replacing the pot with one of my choice, that will likely cost $25+ on its own. Maybe an Alps RK27, maybe an ebay SMD stepper, but the old pot seemed to be the amp's obvious weakness. I think the design has tons of potential otherwise.

 BTW, I have a pair of ATH-AD2000, and they're so sensitive I don't really gain anything with an amp vs. straight out of an iPhone or V20 headphone jack.


----------



## MustangVxD

Bixby, Sennsay, DavidA, 
Thanks for the advice.  I do have the Focus-A pads and they did improve it over the stock pads (ill check into the information on modding the HE400 as well)
Looks like i'll wait until I find a comfortable upgrade in earphones before switching out my Schiit set.  
Again,  thanks for all the opinions and information.


----------



## sennsay

MustangVxD said:


> Bixby, Sennsay, DavidA,
> Thanks for the advice.  I do have the Focus-A pads and they did improve it over the stock pads (ill check into the information on modding the HE400 as well)
> Looks like i'll wait until I find a comfortable upgrade in earphones before switching out my Schiit set.
> Again,  thanks for all the opinions and information.


Glad to be of any help.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

DJ The Rocket said:


> What's this about a new volume pot? The old crappy, noisy pot was why I sold mine, but I've been thinking about getting a new one and just replacing the pot with one of my choice, that will likely cost $25+ on its own. Maybe an Alps RK27, maybe an ebay SMD stepper, but the old pot seemed to be the amp's obvious weakness. I think the design has tons of potential otherwise.
> 
> BTW, I have a pair of ATH-AD2000, and they're so sensitive I don't really gain anything with an amp vs. straight out of an iPhone or V20 headphone jack.



They supposedly tuned the lower range for easier fine control.  The volume should ram up slower.

The pot is an Alps RK09


----------



## almarti

Need help for the final decision about what Schiit amp to purchase.
It will be paired with Mimby and Ether Flow.
I will be always using the amp in SE mode, no balanced.

Magni 3 - best price and enough power after reading a lot of reviews/forum
Jotunheim - is it worth the $300 difference as the balanced section will not be used?
Lyr 2 - is it worth over Jotunheim and Magni 3?

Valhalla 2 not considered I am concerned about the output impedance of 14 ohms, very high for Ether Flow

All your comments/recommendations are very welcome!


----------



## Kevin Tam

almarti said:


> Need help for the final decision about what Schiit amp to purchase.
> It will be paired with Mimby and Ether Flow.
> I will be always using the amp in SE mode, no balanced.
> 
> ...


I never listened to the Ether Flows.  What kind of sound signature do they have?

Forget about the Val2.  It's just not designed to drive anything other than high impedance headphones.  What I can tell you though is that the Lyr 2 isn't that impressive of an amp at its price.  I owned it, liked it with my HE-560 and later discovered that there are better value hybrid amps out there.  The Lyr2 is great for brute driving power.  For example, It'll be an ideal choice if you have a collection of ridiculously hard to drive planars like the HE-560 or HE-6.  However, the sound is slightly loose, wooly and unrefined for this price point.  Plus, it doesn't reflect tube rolling differences as transparently as any tube amps from Garage1217.  The Ember 2 could be a better alternative if you are prepared to indulge in tube-rolling.  On specs, the Ether flows don't look like they are too hard to drive either.  Lyr 2 could be an overkill.

I've never owned a Mimby, so take my words with a grain of salt.  But from what i read, it is a dark sounding DAC.  Mimby + Lyr2 could result in an overly warm sound. 

Never owned the Jotunheim nor the Magni 3.

Cheers


----------



## Kevin Tam

DJ The Rocket said:


> What's this about a new volume pot? The old crappy, noisy pot was why I sold mine, but I've been thinking about getting a new one and just replacing the pot with one of my choice, that will likely cost $25+ on its own. Maybe an Alps RK27, maybe an ebay SMD stepper, but the old pot seemed to be the amp's obvious weakness. I think the design has tons of potential otherwise.
> 
> BTW, I have a pair of ATH-AD2000, and they're so sensitive I don't really gain anything with an amp vs. straight out of an iPhone or V20 headphone jack.



Yeah, the AD2000 don't scale very well.  The tuning on these have such a strong character that no tubes or DACs can balance it out.  I have had better luck with class A solid state amps.  They bring out the speed and refinement on the AD2K.


----------



## FrivolsListener

almarti said:


> Need help for the final decision about what Schiit amp to purchase.
> It will be paired with Mimby and Ether Flow.
> I will be always using the amp in SE mode, no balanced.
> 
> ...



Jason recommended the Magni 3 in that use case when I asked him a similar question at RMAF.  For single ended, go with Magni 3.

(my opinion.  I like mine.)


----------



## DavidA

almarti said:


> Need help for the final decision about what Schiit amp to purchase.
> It will be paired with Mimby and Ether Flow.
> I will be always using the amp in SE mode, no balanced.
> 
> ...


Since I haven't heard the Ether Flow in a long time and didn't try it with a Magni3 or Jot take this with a grain of salt.
The Lyr2 can be a good or average amp and it really depends on the tubes used.  Agree with @Kevin Tam that the Lyr2 is great at brut force for hard to drive headphones and its a great match for the HE560 but to me and the Ember is a more flexible amp.  The Ember lacks the sound stage of the Lyr2 is the only point that might concern some and its why I still have both a Lyr2 and Ember.

The Jot was a decent amp but not worth the $300 over the Magni3 and to me its slightly on the bright side since it didn't pair well with my HE560, T1, HD700 and HD800.

I'd also pass on the Valhalla2 since its a cold dry sounding tube amp and doesn't reflect tube rolling well.


----------



## almarti

Kevin Tam said:


> I never listened to the Ether Flows.  What kind of sound signature do they have?
> 
> Forget about the Val2.  It's just not designed to drive anything other than high impedance headphones.  What I can tell you though is that the Lyr 2 isn't that impressive of an amp at its price.  I owned it, liked it with my HE-560 and later discovered that there are better value hybrid amps out there.  The Lyr2 is great for brute driving power.  For example, It'll be an ideal choice if you have a collection of ridiculously hard to drive planars like the HE-560 or HE-6.  However, the sound is slightly loose, wooly and unrefined for this price point.  Plus, it doesn't reflect tube rolling differences as transparently as any tube amps from Garage1217.  The Ember 2 could be a better alternative if you are prepared to indulge in tube-rolling.  On specs, the Ether flows don't look like they are too hard to drive either.  Lyr 2 could be an overkill.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response. I agree with your approach.


----------



## almarti

FrivolsListener said:


> Jason recommended the Magni 3 in that use case when I asked him a similar question at RMAF.  For single ended, go with Magni 3.
> 
> (my opinion.  I like mine.)


Then this makes the short list to one, the Magni 3.


----------



## almarti

DavidA said:


> Since I haven't heard the Ether Flow in a long time and didn't try it with a Magni3 or Jot take this with a grain of salt.
> The Lyr2 can be a good or average amp and it really depends on the tubes used.  Agree with @Kevin Tam that the Lyr2 is great at brut force for hard to drive headphones and its a great match for the HE560 but to me and the Ember is a more flexible amp.  The Ember lacks the sound stage of the Lyr2 is the only point that might concern some and its why I still have both a Lyr2 and Ember.
> 
> The Jot was a decent amp but not worth the $300 over the Magni3 and to me its slightly on the bright side since it didn't pair well with my HE560, T1, HD700 and HD800.
> ...


So, after the 3 answers, I think I should start with Magni 3 as it is not a great investment (expense) and after progress with other products coming.
I will let you know.
Thanks to all


----------



## ScOgLiO

almarti said:


> So, after the 3 answers, I think I should start with Magni 3 as it is not a great investment (expense) and after progress with other products coming.
> I will let you know.
> Thanks to all


You might be happy enough with the Magni and decide you don't need to look any further, who knows 
Hard to go wrong with it at that price point, anyway!


----------



## DJ The Rocket

Kevin Tam said:


> Yeah, the AD2000 don't scale very well.  The tuning on these have such a strong character that no tubes or DACs can balance it out.  I have had better luck with class A solid state amps.  They bring out the speed and refinement on the AD2K.



I don't see what an amplifier's class has to do with anything, are you sure it wasn't something different those amps all had in common? And what do you mean by "balance it out?" 

I didn't say the ATH-AD2K doesn't scale, I said it is very efficient and doesn't demand much from an amp. At 40 ohms nominal impedance, they're not particularly sensitive to high output impedances, and they don't suck a ton of current either. I just don't think amplifiers matter too much for these headphones, unless you're trying to color the sound a certain way. If they don't scale with better and better amplifiers, it's because they sound great with just about any amplifier. Scaling with better _sources_ is a different story though. What sources have you tried?

They're the polar opposite of my other headphones. The Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime are so inefficient they need both more current and more voltage compared to the AD2k.


----------



## sennsay

After my experience so far, I would never call the Mimby 'dark', as such, though I understand the intention, what it is _*not*_ is glarey, edgy, hyper-detailed, fatiguing and leading-edge focused as are so many of the modern DACs. Certainly not with the Magni 3, natural detail galore and life-like expression it certainly _*does*_ have and in fact, with the set-up I have here, HD540 Ref1s etc, I am calling it for the most 'analogue' and alive sounding gear in the best possible ways I've ever owned in over 40 years ..  without the noise!  I'm sure there are greater heights to be reached, but even at many times this price?  As an _overall_ musical experience, I've heard gear that costs literally hundreds of times more in dollar terms (in some cases thousands of $$ more!) that cannot do what I'm listening to in here and now!


----------



## Kevin Tam

DJ The Rocket said:


> I don't see what an amplifier's class has to do with anything, are you sure it wasn't something different those amps all had in common? And what do you mean by "balance it out?"
> 
> I didn't say the ATH-AD2K doesn't scale, I said it is very efficient and doesn't demand much from an amp. At 40 ohms nominal impedance, they're not particularly sensitive to high output impedances, and they don't suck a ton of current either. I just don't think amplifiers matter too much for these headphones, unless you're trying to color the sound a certain way. If they don't scale with better and better amplifiers, it's because they sound great with just about any amplifier. Scaling with better _sources_ is a different story though. What sources have you tried?
> 
> They're the polar opposite of my other headphones. The Mr. Speakers Alpha Prime are so inefficient they need both more current and more voltage compared to the AD2k.


@DJ The Rocket I agree that AD2Ks don't demand much power to sound well.  But when you said you didn't gain anything from an amp with the AD2K, I must say I have a different experience than yours.
In my exp, the AD2K's abilities are well displayed with minimal amplification except for their speed.  I found that attack and decay are way better controlled when powered from my class A amps than on my player or my other amps.  (Could be a strength of class A, or just my particular amp collection).  Since I see the excellent transient response of the AD2K as an important trait, and my amps make them sound closer to their max potential, I would say I definitely gain from plugging into one.  When I owned the AD2K, I only had my Cowon J3 and a TDA1543 NOS DAC.  Couldn't really compare the two since the J3 doesn't have a line out.  I wonder how the AD2K would pair with the Magni 3.  If you decide to buy one, post your impressions!

What amp are you using to pair with the Prime?

Thanks


----------



## Kevin Tam

sennsay said:


> After my experience so far, I would never call the Mimby 'dark', as such, though I understand the intention, what it is _*not*_ is glarey, edgy, hyper-detailed, fatiguing and leading-edge focused as are so many of the modern DACs. Certainly not with the Magni 3, natural detail galore and life-like expression it certainly _*does*_ have and in fact, with the set-up I have here, HD540 Ref1s etc, I am calling it for the most 'analogue' and alive sounding gear in the best possible ways I've ever owned in over 40 years ..  without the noise!  I'm sure there are greater heights to be reached, but even at many times this price?  As an _overall_ musical experience, I've heard gear that costs literally hundreds of times more in dollar terms (in some cases thousands of $$ more!) that cannot do what I'm listening to in here and now!


Ah that's more like it.  That certainly makes me want to give the Mimby a try!  Currently I'm using the DAC3 by Starting Point System (a NOS DAC designed by a French guy on eBay) and it sounds REALLY fluid and musical as well.  I wonder how the Mimby compares.  How's the synergy with the HD600 and the M3/MM stack?  

Cheers


----------



## sennsay

Kevin Tam said:


> Ah that's more like it.  That certainly makes me want to give the Mimby a try!  Currently I'm using the DAC3 by Starting Point System (a NOS DAC designed by a French guy on eBay) and it sounds REALLY fluid and musical as well.  I wonder how the Mimby compares.  How's the synergy with the HD600 and the M3/MM stack?
> 
> Cheers


Ah well, I don't have the HD600s, I'm using 29 year old Senn HD540 Ref1s, if nicely upgraded. I can only imagine that the HD600 might be a good match, slightly brighter cans with natural and evenly balanced Mimby/M3. No doubt some would love it and others not so much  My own combo has not the slightest trace of edge or upper mid sharpness, it _will_ show up that a recording does have those traits, yet will still leave it sounding as if human beings have been badly recorded, the humanity is still there. That ultra-compressed Arcade Fire album, Funeral, is a good example. Wish they wouldn't do that! I will check out that DAC you have.


----------



## crazychile

almarti said:


> Then this makes the short list to one, the Magni 3.



Good decision. You really do have to spend significantly more money to get a better amp with the same or better versatility.


----------



## quimbo

@sennsay, Thank you for your post a few days back about the Senn HD540s.  I did some quick reading on the forum you suggested as well as elsewhere.  Headed over to ebay and won a bid yesterday for a pair of HD 540 Reference II.  Just picked them up from the post office (less than 24 hours from auction end to item available for pickup). They came with the original box, manual and a second cord.    Plugged them into BiFrost Multi-Bit Gen5 USB  --> Loki --> Asgard 2 listening to gd77-03-18.140918.ecm270.menke.sirmick.flac24.  The volume was slightly lower than I remember from last night, switched to my ATH-M50X and confirmed that the volume was lower on the Senns.  Switched back to the Senns and have been listening for about 20 minutes, the sound is sublime and the Loki allows for some fine tuning which is handy for live music.

Thanx again for the post - q


----------



## sennsay

quimbo said:


> @sennsay, Thank you for your post a few days back about the Senn HD540s.  I did some quick reading on the forum you suggested as well as elsewhere.  Headed over to ebay and won a bid yesterday for a pair of HD 540 Reference II.  Just picked them up from the post office (less than 24 hours from auction end to item available for pickup). They came with the original box, manual and a second cord.    Plugged them into BiFrost Multi-Bit Gen5 USB  --> Loki --> Asgard 2 listening to gd77-03-18.140918.ecm270.menke.sirmick.flac24.  The volume was slightly lower than I remember from last night, switched to my ATH-M50X and confirmed that the volume was lower on the Senns.  Switched back to the Senns and have been listening for about 20 minutes, the sound is sublime and the Loki allows for some fine tuning which is handy for live music.
> 
> Thanx again for the post - q


Wow, that's terrific, glad to be able to share here. I've read here that the Ref IIs are a touch brighter than the Ref 1s, but I haven't heard them to know the difference. My Ref 1s as stock had always been upper mid sharp ... exposed, shall we say ... but are certainly not any more. I think Schiit may have yet another really goody on their hands with the Loki.


----------



## sennsay

crazychile said:


> Good decision. You really do have to spend significantly more money to get a better amp with the same or better versatility.


Hey there, craychile, how are the HD650s with the Magni 3? I have a new set of HD6XX coming next month or so and I'm curious as to how they might go with my own M3.


----------



## crazychile

The HD-650 and Magni 3 are a great match. If these two were the only combo I owned, I could be happy having tried some much more expensive gear. It’s not just that the Magni is nicely detailed, but to also have ample power is really rare at this low of a price point.


----------



## quimbo

sennsay said:


> Wow, that's terrific, glad to be able to share here. I've read here that the Ref IIs are a touch brighter than the Ref 1s, but I haven't heard them to know the difference. My Ref 1s as stock had always been upper mid sharp ... exposed, shall we say ... but are certainly not any more. I think Schiit may have yet another really goody on their hands with the Loki.



they are bright upon first listen.    Will bring these to work to test thru my work schitt stack modi 2 uber --> loki --> magni 3


----------



## sennsay

crazychile said:


> The HD-650 and Magni 3 are a great match. If these two were the only combo I owned, I could be happy having tried some much more expensive gear. It’s not just that the Magni is nicely detailed, but to also have ample power is really rare at this low of a price point.


Excellent, then I shall remain excited to hear them. My original HD650s took a long time to really loosen up and run-in, similar for you? I re-watched Jude's review of them on Head-Fi TV for inspiration


----------



## crazychile

sennsay said:


> Excellent, then I shall remain excited to hear them. My original HD650s took a long time to really loosen up and run-in, similar for you? I re-watched Jude's review of them on Head-Fi TV for inspiration



It's hard to tell about the break in. I ran them with a MicroZotl 2 for about a year (under powered), and also modded them slightly after the first month of ownership. I didn't really grow to love them until I used the Magni 3. Because of my system changes its tough to say how dramatic the break in is.


----------



## DavidA

crazychile said:


> It's hard to tell about the break in. I ran them with a MicroZotl 2 for about a year (under powered), and also modded them slightly after the first month of ownership. I didn't really grow to love them until I used the Magni 3. Because of my system changes its tough to say how dramatic the break in is.


While I don't own the MicroZOTL2 I have 2 friends that have it and it never seemed under powered with the HD650, HD800/S, T1gen1 or HD700 that I've tried on them.  What made you come to the conclusion that it was under powering the HD650?


----------



## Hofy

Magni3 is in the house!  Warming up and burning in.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Where do you guys source your knobs from?


----------



## Hofy

SomeTechNoob said:


> Where do you guys source your knobs from?



eBay  https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-20-15m...053922&hash=item2ca5ce1ea3:g:CW0AAOSwevlaATBj

This is what I am using.  You will need a 2mm hex key to attach it.


----------



## Hofy

In Black too.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/20x15mm-Mi...257733&hash=item4ad705efb0:g:hjgAAOSwyltZOT~M


----------



## Richsvt

I just ordered a M3. Very excited to hear the changes they made. I had the M1 and was great for what I needed then. Now I find I need a small foot print for cheap but still needed some power. Seemed like the M3 was the choice and with the improvements they've made, I can't go wrong. Not sure I'll got full stack again as I will be using with mostly DAPs. But may look into the Loki. Just like the adjust-ability...we'll see.


----------



## Hofy

The M3 needs some serious break in time.  It is fun listening to the progression and comparing my notes.   I have had music playing non-stop this whole time and will let it go for a full 72 hours.  Headphones used are primarily Sennheiser HD540 Ref II  (300 ohm).

I did some quick listening just after power on.  Closed in, harsh and brittle to say the least.  This did not change much when I took a listen again at 4 hours.
The yellow out lines show the listening head space I experienced at turn on and 4 hours in.










I am now at 9 hours in and the amp is really opening up.  The music is more effortless and well musical!  Individual instruments are taking place where they need to be.  The brittleness is gone.
The sound stage is starting to open up also.  Red lines reflect this.









Ultimate goal for soundstage is in blue.  I have this right now with the Vali2.


----------



## sennsay

Hofy said:


> Magni3 is in the house!  Warming up and burning in.


 Nice rack, dude  Simple and effective.


----------



## sennsay

Hofy said:


> The M3 needs some serious break in time.  It is fun listening to the progression and comparing my notes.   I have had music playing non-stop this whole time and will let it go for a full 72 hours.  Headphones used are primarily Sennheiser HD540 Ref II  (300 ohm).
> 
> I did some quick listening just after power on.  Closed in, harsh and brittle to say the least.  This did not change much when I took a listen again at 4 hours.
> The yellow out lines show the listening head space I experienced at turn on and 4 hours in.
> ...


Yes indeedy, the blue lines are where I'm at with the Senn HD540 Ref1s. Nice bit of show and tell there, Hofy  Given the right live recording, say Ricki Lee Jones' Nude Songs, the tiniest details in the audience are pinpoint well out in space, in fact more than a few times I've been wide-eyed in surprise at discovering sounds never previously heard. In those cases I'd go so far as to say you could even extend the blue line in front of the head another few inches. Not common, but there at times. In terms of my time to get to that point with the Magni 3, 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. What has surprised me is the complete lack of noise in the soundstage, this is with the QP1R as a source-optical out to the Mimby. There is slightly less of that fabulous definition when using other sources, laptop via USB or the Marantz SACD player (coax out). Maybe no moving parts with the QP1R makes that final difference in resolution.


----------



## sennsay

crazychile said:


> It's hard to tell about the break in. I ran them with a MicroZotl 2 for about a year (under powered), and also modded them slightly after the first month of ownership. I didn't really grow to love them until I used the Magni 3. Because of my system changes its tough to say how dramatic the break in is.


Cool. What is really interesting to me is that you didn't grow to love them _until_ the Magni 3. Must be a good synergy for you, eh?


----------



## Hofy

sennsay said:


> Yes indeedy, the blue lines are where I'm at with the Senn HD540 Ref1s. Nice bit of show and tell there, Hofy  Given the right live recording, say Ricki Lee Jones' Nude Songs, the tiniest details in the audience are pinpoint well out in space, in fact more than a few times I've been wide-eyed in surprise at discovering sounds never previously heard. In those cases I'd go so far as to say you could even extend the blue line in front of the head another few inches. Not common, but there at times. In terms of my time to get to that point with the Magni 3, 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. What has surprised me is the complete lack of noise in the soundstage, this is with the QP1R as a source-optical out to the Mimby. There is slightly less of that fabulous definition when using other sources, laptop via USB or the Marantz SACD player (coax out). Maybe no moving parts with the QP1R makes that final difference in resolution.



Yes, the differences in recordings and sources will vary the soundstage and imaging.   Tomorrow I will be trying my Senn HD555/595 with some punk.  We all know how bad the quality of some of those recordings are.  I have found the HD555/595 to be my preferred match for a lot of music that is poorly recorded.  Sould be interesting to have 1.3W on tap with those 50 ohm cans.

I plan one more good listen before bed in a few hours.  The amp will have been active and playing for about 14 hours at that point. 

I will also give the HD540 Ref I a go tomorrow too.


----------



## Tuneslover

Hofy said:


> Yes, the differences in recordings and sources will vary the soundstage and imaging.   Tomorrow I will be trying my Senn HD555/595 with some punk.  We all know how bad the quality of some of those recordings are.  I have found the HD555/595 to be my preferred match for a lot of music that is poorly recorded.  Sould be interesting to have 1.3W on tap with those 50 ohm cans.
> 
> I plan one more good listen before bed in a few hours.  The amp will have been active and playing for about 14 hours at that point.
> 
> I will also give the HD540 Ref I a go tomorrow too.



Go lo gain, gives you more volume control.


----------



## Hofy

Tuneslover said:


> Go lo gain, gives you more volume control.



Definitely low gain for the HD555 and most likely the HD545/565.  Plenty of volume control for the HD540II.


----------



## Hofy

Last listen for the night.  12 hours in.  We have BASS!  I have never heard bass like this on any of my cans with the Vali2.  I think i just had an eargasm.
Sound stage has opened just a wee bit more.


----------



## sennsay (Feb 11, 2018)

Hofy said:


> Last listen for the night.  12 hours in.  We have BASS!  I have never heard bass like this on any of my cans with the Vali2.  I think i just had an eargasm.
> Sound stage has opened just a wee bit more.


Haha, give it a few more days then go for Lorde's Pure Heroine. It's not surprising it's used as a test album with the Hifi mags to check how systems can handle deep rolling bass, keep it focused and NOT blur her sometimes delicate vocals. The system I have now most definitely allows the sometimes thunderous synth notes their own space and detail without blurring Lorde's vocals. Delightful and the best I've heard it.Try White Teeth Teens, great stonking bass notes and electronic glare over vocals at the end, if you can listen to that without your teeth on edge and the 'glare' taking over the vocals underneath, then all is well  Best on at least Flac/AIFF rather than mp3 though!


----------



## crazychile

DavidA said:


> While I don't own the MicroZOTL2 I have 2 friends that have it and it never seemed under powered with the HD650, HD800/S, T1gen1 or HD700 that I've tried on them.  What made you come to the conclusion that it was under powering the HD650?


HD650's will play loud enough on a MZ2, but even at low volume there's no balls. It's nice and clean and clear but lacks weight even with the LPS. I thought it was just fine with the Fostex TH-X00, but those are low impedance headphones. MZ2 is rated at 1 watt max output into 4 ohms, and .5 watts into 14 ohms. Who knows what it is at 300 ohms...Probably not very much. The Magni 3 is a very respectable 430mW into 300 ohms. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess the Magni 3 is at least 3x the power of the MZ2, and probably more.

I run my Magni 3 on low gain with the HD-650 and rarely have it set above 9:00 on the dial. It sounds full and solid even at low volume.


----------



## Hofy

24 hour report.  Imaging continues to improve.  Soundstage is about the same.  Time to try the other cans.
HD555/595  High gain is pointless with these 50 Ohm drivers.  8 o'clock is all I could take.  11 o'clock on low gain and these are a rockin'.   Soundstaging and imaging really flatten out but I already knew that.  
HD545  Similar sound to the HD540II but being 150 Ohm I could not go higher than 9 o'clock in high gain.  Low gain 11-12 o'clock worked well.  
HD580.  Wowzers!  Imaging and sounstage are better than the HD540II.  These never sounded this good on the Vali2.  10-11 o'clock is as high as they need to go for sweet sweet music.
HD540I 600 Ohm.  I actually ditched the foam disks and am using open velour 560 pads.  High gain 1-2 o'clock is the sweet spot right now.  I knew these cans are special but have never been able to get them to open up with the Vali2.  Tied with the HD580 right now.  
Looks like the Vali2 might be going up for sale.



sennsay said:


> Haha, give it a few more days then go for Lorde's Pure Heroine. It's not surprising it's used as a test album with the Hifi mags to check how systems can handle deep rolling bass, keep it focused and NOT blur her sometimes delicate vocals. The system I have now most definitely allows the sometimes thunderous synth notes their own space and detail without blurring Lorde's vocals. Delightful and the best I've heard it.Try White Teeth Teens, great stonking bass notes and electronic glare over vocals at the end, if you can listen to that without your teeth on edge and the 'glare' taking over the vocals underneath, then all is well  Best on at least Flac/AIFF rather than mp3 though!



All my digital is flac.  MP3 are verboten.  I do not have Lorde's album but I did dial up Queen's Another One Bites The Dust and was blown away.
I think I will be spinning up some vinyl this afternoon.


----------



## DavidA

crazychile said:


> HD650's will play loud enough on a MZ2, but even at low volume there's no balls. It's nice and clean and clear but lacks weight even with the LPS. I thought it was just fine with the Fostex TH-X00, but those are low impedance headphones. MZ2 is rated at 1 watt max output into 4 ohms, and .5 watts into 14 ohms. Who knows what it is at 300 ohms...Probably not very much. The Magni 3 is a very respectable 430mW into 300 ohms. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess the Magni 3 is at least 3x the power of the MZ2, and probably more.
> 
> I run my Magni 3 on low gain with the HD-650 and rarely have it set above 9:00 on the dial. It sounds full and solid even at low volume.



I guess we have different views of what the HD650 should sound like since I found the MZ2 + HD650 a great pairing.  The MZ2 makes the overly warm HD650 a more natural sounding headphone with a touch more sparkle in the highs without becoming sibilant, gives the HD650 a nice solid detailed bass and even has a noticeable improvement to the HD650 rather narrow soundstage.  The Magni3 in comparison doesn't have the sparkle with the HD650 and the bass is not quite as clean and detailed as it is with the MZ2. 

Agree that the Magni3 is probably 3-4 times more powerful than the MZ2 but it doesn't really matter since you are only using the power that is needed to get to your listening level so even if the MZ2 only has 0.01watts at 300 ohms it will make the HD650 play at 90dB which is at a hearing damaging level.

I've never really found the "power" or "wattage" rating to mean much since most headphones only need 0.01 watts to go quite a bit over my normal listening level of 65-75dB since the HD650 is rated at 98dB at 1mW efficiency.


----------



## aWildSalmon

Always curious to pick one of these up to compare with my OBJECTIVE2+ODAC REV B


----------



## sennsay

Hofy said:


> 24 hour report.  Imaging continues to improve.  Soundstage is about the same.  Time to try the other cans.
> HD555/595  High gain is pointless with these 50 Ohm drivers.  8 o'clock is all I could take.  11 o'clock on low gain and these are a rockin'.   Soundstaging and imaging really flatten out but I already knew that.
> HD545  Similar sound to the HD540II but being 150 Ohm I could not go higher than 9 o'clock in high gain.  Low gain 11-12 o'clock worked well.
> HD580.  Wowzers!  Imaging and sounstage are better than the HD540II.  These never sounded this good on the Vali2.  10-11 o'clock is as high as they need to go for sweet sweet music.
> ...


Are you still using the stock cable? I have been experimenting with three cables to hand last night and this morning; a stock Senn replacement cable for the HD540s, the original 10' cable with the PX1 plug (5 pin to 6.5mm) and my Mogami 2893 mini quad cable. In fact that is also the order from worst to best. The stock replacement is pretty ordinary, constricted soundstage, lacking dimensionality, image specificity and engagement. It's ok, but I've always gone back to the original cable, despite the fact that it has separated into two cables lengthwise for most of the 10', probably from years of dancing with them on and more than a few times tripping over the cable and pulling it out of the capsules! Such is the joy of music and headphones together and not being able to sit still  This cable has improved in SQ with the addition of the Magni 3/Mimby combo, the upper mid forwardness has been ameliorated substantially, though there are slight traces of it there occasionally. However, it IS grainy, imaging is smeared and more two dimensional and although the bass is pretty good, it doesn't have the impact, definition and power of the Mogami. Still better than the cheap replacement from Sennheiser though! The Mogami No 2893 is quiet! Interspatial silence between notes and instruments is the best I've come across so far, leading to beautifully focused images that have real dimensionality to them. Even Lorde's multi-tracked backing vocals way out to the sides have the same 3D solidity of a real human female voice, making the music so much more involving. Bass .. oh the bass! Solid, deep (when required), focused with tonal expression and shape, the electronic drum sound having a textual life of it's own. High frequencies are not _quite_ as forward as the other two cables, yet again have far more texture and leading edge detail, the struck tambourine on White Teeth Teens an obvious example, while with other music the level of detail and focus does not require brightness to sound detailed. True, if you like the Grado sound, you will not like this!  I used to some years ago, these days I prefer the "see into" transparency the current system is bringing me. No listening fatigue here! 
 Since I haven't heard a newer HD650 cable with the Ref1s, I can't comment on that one.


----------



## Hofy (Feb 11, 2018)

sennsay said:


> Are you still using the stock cable? I have been experimenting with three cables to hand last night and this morning; a stock Senn replacement cable for the HD540s, the original 10' cable with the PX1 plug (5 pin to 6.5mm) and my Mogami 2893 mini quad cable. In fact that is also the order from worst to best. The stock replacement is pretty ordinary, constricted soundstage, lacking dimensionality, image specificity and engagement. It's ok, but I've always gone back to the original cable, despite the fact that it has separated into two cables lengthwise for most of the 10', probably from years of dancing with them on and more than a few times tripping over the cable and pulling it out of the capsules! Such is the joy of music and headphones together and not being able to sit still  This cable has improved in SQ with the addition of the Magni 3/Mimby combo, the upper mid forwardness has been ameliorated substantially, though there are slight traces of it there occasionally. However, it IS grainy, imaging is smeared and more two dimensional and although the bass is pretty good, it doesn't have the impact, definition and power of the Mogami. Still better than the cheap replacement from Sennheiser though! The Mogami No 2893 is quiet! Interspatial silence between notes and instruments is the best I've come across so far, leading to beautifully focused images that have real dimensionality to them. Even Lorde's multi-tracked backing vocals way out to the sides have the same 3D solidity of a real human female voice, making the music so much more involving. Bass .. oh the bass! Solid, deep (when required), focused with tonal expression and shape, the electronic drum sound having a textual life of it's own. High frequencies are not _quite_ as forward as the other two cables, yet again have far more texture and leading edge detail, the struck tambourine on White Teeth Teens an obvious example, while with other music the level of detail and focus does not require brightness to sound detailed. True, if you like the Grado sound, you will not like this!  I used to some years ago, these days I prefer the "see into" transparency the current system is bringing me. No listening fatigue here!
> Since I haven't heard a newer HD650 cable with the Ref1s, I can't comment on that one.




I am doing all my listening with a new replacement HD650 cable.  (Except for the HD555/595 that have the perma cable, for now).  I have to make a new cable for the HD540's as I have to mod the ends by removing some material so they fit in the smaller opening.  I have already done this to the HD650 cable.

BTW I have some Mogami W2799  that is basically the same as the 2893 without all the sheilding.  I will be using it in my next couple of cables.  I don't think it will make any difference.


----------



## sennsay

Hofy said:


> I am doing all my listening with a new replacement HD650 cable.  (Except for the HD555/595 that have the perma cable, for now).  I have to make a new cable for the HD540's as I have to mod the ends by removing some material so they fit in the smaller opening.  I have already done this to the HD650 cable.


True, yes, I have not removed the extra bulk of the replacement capsule jacks, I occasionally have the issue of a plug pulling out.


----------



## Hofy

sennsay said:


> True, yes, I have not removed the extra bulk of the replacement capsule jacks, I occasionally have the issue of a plug pulling out.


It isnt that hard.  Just need a steady hand and a sharp knife.  I like to do this on plugs that have not been soldered on yet.


----------



## sennsay

Hofy said:


> It isnt that hard.  Just need a steady hand and a sharp knife.  I like to do this on plugs that have not been soldered on yet.


Hmm, I do have a spare new set of plugs, I shall give it a go


----------



## Hofy

sennsay said:


> Hmm, I do have a spare new set of plugs, I shall give it a go



I am sure you know, all you have to do is remove the material outside the red lines and trim down to the dashed line so that area from the pins down towards the wire is the same size.


----------



## sennsay

Hofy said:


> I am sure you know, all you have to do is remove the material outside the red lines and trim down to the dashed line so that area from the pins down towards the wire is the same size.


Thank you, Hofy, I'll get onto that today!


----------



## sennsay

sennsay said:


> Thank you, Hofy, I'll get onto that today!


Dunski! 'Easy as', as we say here, the plastic is soft and a good craft knife just slices the excess away. Now the plugs click into place properly. Thanks Hofy for the prompting


----------



## Tuneslover

Magni 3?


----------



## luckybaer

As my signature shows, I currently have a Modi 2 MB feeding a Vali 2.  I couldn’t resist picking up a Magni 3 for $99, so i ordered one last week.  It will ship in 7-14 business days, so I’m just chilling out and continuing to replace all the .mp3 files I made from my CDs with lossless FLAC and Apple Lossless Files from those same CDs.  A labor of love, no doubt.  

I hope there is enough of a difference in sound signatures between the Vali 2 and the Magni 3. I love fiddling around and using different pieces of equipment depending on how I feel, the musical genre, or the headphone I currently have within reach.


----------



## JamminVMI

luckybaer said:


> As my signature shows, I currently have a Modi 2 MB feeding a Vali 2.  I couldn’t resist picking up a Magni 3 for $99, so i ordered one last week.  It will ship in 7-14 business days, so I’m just chilling out and continuing to replace all the .mp3 files I made from my CDs with lossless FLAC and Apple Lossless Files from those same CDs.  A labor of love, no doubt.
> 
> I hope there is enough of a difference in sound signatures between the Vali 2 and the Magni 3. I love fiddling around and using different pieces of equipment depending on how I feel, the musical genre, or the headphone I currently have within reach.


 I run Modi 2 Uber into a Sys, which allows me to select between Vali 2 and Magni 3, depending on what’s playing or perhaps how I feel. There’s certainly enough difference to be wonderful with different recordings. Admittedly, it’s great fun being able to switch between both basically on the fly. Enjoy?


----------



## Hofy

luckybaer said:


> As my signature shows, I currently have a Modi 2 MB feeding a Vali 2.  I couldn’t resist picking up a Magni 3 for $99, so i ordered one last week.  It will ship in 7-14 business days, so I’m just chilling out and continuing to replace all the .mp3 files I made from my CDs with lossless FLAC and Apple Lossless Files from those same CDs.  A labor of love, no doubt.
> 
> I hope there is enough of a difference in sound signatures between the Vali 2 and the Magni 3. I love fiddling around and using different pieces of equipment depending on how I feel, the musical genre, or the headphone I currently have within reach.



Yes there is enough of a difference.  I have the same 3 pieces in my set up and it is very easy to tell the difference.  I very much prefer the Magni 3.   Just remember when you get yours to let it warm up and burn in for several days.



JamminVMI said:


> I run Modi 2 Uber into a Sys, which allows me to select between Vali 2 and Magni 3, depending on what’s playing or perhaps how I feel. There’s certainly enough difference to be wonderful with different recordings. Admittedly, it’s great fun being able to switch between both basically on the fly. Enjoy?



I wish i could do this but I have my SYS switching between my Mimby and Mani.  I think I may be letting the Vali go. Another week or two before I make that decision.


----------



## RickB

I too prefer the Magni 3 over the Vali 2 (after much going back and forth), but I decided to hang on the Vali 2 as a backup. It's nice to have two amps.


----------



## luckybaer

JamminVMI said:


> I run Modi 2 Uber into a Sys, which allows me to select between Vali 2 and Magni 3, depending on what’s playing or perhaps how I feel. There’s certainly enough difference to be wonderful with different recordings. Admittedly, it’s great fun being able to switch between both basically on the fly. Enjoy?


Can you give me a clue as to how you’ve cabled up your set-up with the Sys?  I see 2 inputs and one set of outputs.  Where does your Modi go in, and how do you go from the Sys to your Vali and Magni?  I’d love to do that with my set up.


----------



## JamminVMI

luckybaer said:


> Can you give me a clue as to how you’ve cabled up your set-up with the Sys?  I see 2 inputs and one set of outputs.  Where does your Modi go in, and how do you go from the Sys to your Vali and Magni?  I’d love to do that with my set up.


It’s backwards, frankly. Buncha folks asked Jason if ir could be done this way, his answer was yes, but leave the volume on the sys at full. 

So use the out as in, and vice versa, leave the volume pot maxed out. Easy-peasy, though bass-ackwards!


----------



## luckybaer

JamminVMI said:


> It’s backwards, frankly. Buncha folks asked Jason if ir could be done this way, his answer was yes, but leave the volume on the sys at full.
> 
> So use the out as in, and vice versa, leave the volume pot maxed out. Easy-peasy, though bass-ackwards!


Lol... that was the only way I could guess it would work.  Hey, if it has Jason’s stamp of approval, then it must be good-to-go!  Thanks for the tip!!


----------



## DavidA (Feb 13, 2018)

JamminVMI said:


> It’s backwards, frankly. Buncha folks asked Jason if ir could be done this way, his answer was yes, but leave the volume on the sys at full.
> 
> So use the out as in, and vice versa, leave the volume pot maxed out. Easy-peasy, though bass-ackwards!


I have 2 SYS and use them backwards, LOL.  Different amps and DACs: UD-301, Bimby, Ember, Lyr2, BH Crack and Asgard2


----------



## GearMe

luckybaer said:


> Can you give me a clue as to how you’ve cabled up your set-up with the Sys?  I see 2 inputs and one set of outputs.  Where does your Modi go in, and how do you go from the Sys to your Vali and Magni?  I’d love to do that with my set up.



Or...you could just get a rca switch which is designed for this and costs less


----------



## luckybaer

GearMe said:


> Or...you could just get a rca switch which is designed for this and costs less


I’ll look into that!  Always looking to trim costs and clutter.  Thanks!


----------



## luckybaer

GearMe said:


> Or...you could just get a rca switch which is designed for this and costs less


Something like this?

Optimal Shop 2 Way Audio Video Switch Selector Box Splitter with RCA Cable -Blue https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SBHHN5Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_56VGAbTD9MAC9

Same theory, using the ins as outs and the out as in?  

Sorry for being clueless.  ‍♂️


----------



## Mark Williams

I've had good luck with these 4 input switch boxes. 
Check around.   You may be able to find them for a little less money.    I think I recently bought one for $9, shipped.
-MSW

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-4X1-4-...943368?hash=item3f91cb0e08:g:QLwAAOxyhodRxoGL


----------



## Mark Williams

Here's a photo of the switch box mentioned above in case the link refused to work in the present/future.
-


 MSW


----------



## emulov

Magni 3 wasn't giving the power I expected for the specs. It was always at 12-3 (depending on the song's source) even for headphones like the HD558, which doesn't match up to other owners using 9-11 for power hungry headphones. I use my old, really weak amp at 10-11 with the AKG K612 for example as anything above that's too loud.

It was connected to a 2Vrms USB DAC, so would it output more power connected to a wall wart 2.1Vrms Topping D30? Or could it be that my cheap cable wasn't making a good connection?


----------



## FrivolsListener

emulov said:


> Magni 3 wasn't giving the power I expected for the specs. It was always at 12-3 (depending on the song's source) even for headphones like the HD558, which doesn't match up to other owners using 9-11 for power hungry headphones. I use my old, really weak amp at 10-11 with the AKG K612 for example as anything above that's too loud.
> 
> It was connected to a 2Vrms USB DAC, so would it output more power connected to a wall wart 2.1Vrms Topping D30? Or could it be that my cheap cable wasn't making a good connection?



I wouldn't use relative volume control position as a useful indicator.   IIRC, people complained about the Magni 2 being too coarse to control sensitive headphones well, so they made an effort to "spread out"  the lower levels across more of the volume control's range.


----------



## crazychile

emulov said:


> Magni 3 wasn't giving the power I expected for the specs. It was always at 12-3 (depending on the song's source) even for headphones like the HD558, which doesn't match up to other owners using 9-11 for power hungry headphones. I use my old, really weak amp at 10-11 with the AKG K612 for example as anything above that's too loud.
> 
> It was connected to a 2Vrms USB DAC, so would it output more power connected to a wall wart 2.1Vrms Topping D30? Or could it be that my cheap cable wasn't making a good connection?



Something isn't right here. I'm not familiar with the specs on HD-558, But I've had my Magni 3 up to 12 o'clock for brief periods with HD-650s and it was louder than anyone should ever listen.


----------



## Richsvt

I'm listening to the M3 now (just got from Fedex earlier today) with the Fiio X5iii as the source and I like what I'm hearing. I was not expecting to hear any differences in sound or sound stage as I would expect a certain amount of transparency. There is some good clarity in the NightOwls that I did not get straight from the X5. I remember the Magni 1st gen and while a good piece, seemed a little sterile. Hard to make a solid impression from such short time. I will try it with the Meze 99 Classics and some IEMs to see how it reacts. I think this will be a good addition...


----------



## Richsvt




----------



## luckybaer

This thing sounds pretty good right out of the box - even fed by my antiquated HeadRoom Micro DAC [2005 version, fed optically by the PC].  Is there a legit break-in period?


----------



## sennsay

crazychile said:


> Something isn't right here. I'm not familiar with the specs on HD-558, But I've had my Magni 3 up to 12 o'clock for brief periods with HD-650s and it was louder than anyone should ever listen.


Mmm, yes, my HE400S are relatively efficient while also needing some punch to really perform and I can barely use 10 o'clock on many tracks, too loud otherwise, low gain gives me more volume movement up to about 1-2 o'clock. Still much prefer the Senn HD540 Ref1s though, even at 12-3 o'clock on high gain, plenty of volume for 95% of anything I would want to listen to.


----------



## sennsay

Richsvt said:


> I'm listening to the M3 now (just got from Fedex earlier today) with the Fiio X5iii as the source and I like what I'm hearing. I was not expecting to hear any differences in sound or sound stage as I would expect a certain amount of transparency. There is some good clarity in the NightOwls that I did not get straight from the X5. I remember the Magni 1st gen and while a good piece, seemed a little sterile. Hard to make a solid impression from such short time. I will try it with the Meze 99 Classics and some IEMs to see how it reacts. I think this will be a good addition...


Give it a week. The M3 is quite dynamically restricted and a little 'dry' until a good couple of days warm up has gone by. All the best with the listening fun.


----------



## sennsay (Feb 16, 2018)

luckybaer said:


> This thing sounds pretty good right out of the box - even fed by my antiquated HeadRoom Micro DAC [2005 version, fed optically by the PC].  Is there a legit break-in period?


See my reply to Richsvt below (or just above), give it a few days. Mine was rather more expressive, transparent and dynamic after a week or so, two weeks and it was cooking  The better your source, the better the M3 performs. It IS that good! Easily shows the downgrade from using my QP1R as a ultra-quiet source (optical out to the Mimby) to my Marantz DV6600 SACD player with CDs.


----------



## luckybaer

sennsay said:


> See my reply to Richsvt below, give a few days. Mine was rather more expressive, transparent and dynamic after a week or so, two weeks and it was cooking  The better your source, the better the M3 performs. It IS that good! Easily shows the downgrade from using my QP1R as a ultra-quiet source to my Marantz DV6600 SACD player with CDs.


Right now, my source is kind of meh.  I don't want to pull my Vali 2 out of my Schiit stack, so Magni is fed by 2005 version of Headroom Micro DAC.  I'm considering a DAC upgrade - as in end game DAC.  This business of plodding forward, step-by-step would end up costing me more money if I keep it up.  Haha


----------



## bixby

crazychile said:


> Something isn't right here. I'm not familiar with the specs on HD-558, But I've had my Magni 3 up to 12 o'clock for brief periods with HD-650s and it was louder than anyone should ever listen.



Chili is right, should be way loud.  Could be a defective Topping, mine was.  And I can tell you the output was much lower than my JDS dacs, which I think are rated at 2 volts out.  The topping D30 I had would audibly clip on some bass in a few London Grammar tracks, non of my other dacs did.


----------



## Karlmalone1

Just picked up a Magni 3 to replace my 2 uber.  Early impressions are great, seems to be less bright which is exactly what I wanted.


----------



## vespenegas

Mine has performed extremely capably with my HD600s, I don’t even really crave something wildly expensive (yet). A bit bright at times, but powerful and clear.


----------



## Tuneslover

I can't recall from earlier discussions whether or not the Magni 3 makes that annoying pop upon start up.  I had both original Magni & Magni 2U and they did this.  Got rid of them because of this.  My Vali 2 does this as well.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

It's a protection relay circuit.  Better safe than sorry.


----------



## Tuneslover

SomeTechNoob said:


> It's a protection relay circuit.  Better safe than sorry.



Agreed but that doesn't mean it needs to make that potentially destructive (headphone or powered speakers) popping sound.  My other amps don't have this issue.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Huh, it's never bothered me on my Magni 2.  Just tried it with my efficient AKG K553s and wasn't disturbed by it.  You can hear it but it isn't really that loud imo.


----------



## Renato Fury

Could anyone make a comparison between Magni 3/Mimby, NFB 11.28 and R2R 11 ?


----------



## Tuneslover

SomeTechNoob said:


> Huh, it's never bothered me on my Magni 2.  Just tried it with my efficient AKG K553s and wasn't disturbed by it.  You can hear it but it isn't really that loud imo.



Try it with powered speakers when they've been left on (which mine are all the time with volume pre-set).


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Ah I don't have the pre-out since I don't have the M2U.  The Fulla 2 handles that for me so I don't have that issue.


----------



## luckybaer

I've listened to the Magni 3 more or less exclusively since receiving it on Friday.  I also have a vintage (circa 2006) HeadRoom Micro Amp and DAC that occupies space next to Schiit Power Stack on my desk.  I've tried to justify keeping it there, but I plugged the amp into the Modi 2 MB, and it sounded sort of "meh" after several minutes of listening.  With its outdated DAC and congested, narrow sound, I'll be packing up the Micro Amp and DAC permanently.  Not sure what to do with it, as I doubt it would fetch much on eBay.  That being said, the Magni 3 is a huge improvement for me relative to my old gear.  I was contemplating getting rid of the old stuff after listening to my Vali 2, but kept it around.  The Magni 3 puts the final nail in the coffin.


----------



## Renato Fury




----------



## luckybaer

Renato Fury said:


>


Did you make that stand for your Schiit PowerStack?  It is awesome!


----------



## sennsay

Renato Fury said:


>


Nice rack  How's the Loki going?


----------



## volly

Haha, Schiit's gettin' crazy!

I wonder if Schiit will one day release a all-in-one unit or will we be forever building up and up our schiit stack! _LOL _


----------



## quimbo

luckybaer said:


> Did you make that stand for your Schiit PowerStack?  It is awesome!



Actually thats a picture of my setup I took.  Rack (I ordered 2) can be found here

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...e-rack-transparent-equipment/32788148827.html


----------



## Renato Fury

I forgot to give the credits to the owner of this pile, @quimbo, I'll still buy mine and post a photo here, so any doubt about this photo, ask him.


----------



## ZMG885

Tuneslover said:


> I can't recall from earlier discussions whether or not the Magni 3 makes that annoying pop upon start up.  I had both original Magni & Magni 2U and they did this.  Got rid of them because of this.  My Vali 2 does this as well.



I have the Magni 3 and Modi 2 Multibit and have not noticed any popping at startup.  Source is a 2012 MacMini via USB, and the Magni 3 is a pre-amp for Audioengine 2+ speakers.  No popping when pulling out the headphone jack, switching to speakers on the fly.


----------



## Tuneslover

ZMG885 said:


> I have the Magni 3 and Modi 2 Multibit and have not noticed any popping at startup.  Source is a 2012 MacMini via USB, and the Magni 3 is a pre-amp for Audioengine 2+ speakers.  No popping when pulling out the headphone jack, switching to speakers on the fly.



Good to know about no popping with the Magni 3.  Original and Magni 2 were bad for that.

My Vali 2 does it too, however just yesterday I inserted it into my Bimby/Jot setup as a preamp to the Jot.  The Jot takes longer to go through it's protection circuitry than the V2 so I no longer hear the Vali2's pop.  The Vali 2 as a preamp has also improved my setup...good things all around.


----------



## Renato Fury

Could anyone review Magni 3 and Mimby ?


----------



## luckybaer

Renato Fury said:


> Could anyone review Magni 3 and Mimby ?


As in how they work as a combo?


----------



## Renato Fury

luckybaer said:


> As in how they work as a combo?


Yes.


----------



## luckybaer

Renato Fury said:


> Yes.


Ok.  I have the combo, and I can say that they work well together.  The only solid state amp I compared it to was a 2005 Headroom Micro Amp.  The micro amp was thin and dull compared to the Magni 3.  My only other amp is a Vali 2, and it offers a little different sound - different, not better or worse.

Vali 2 seems more lush and gentle, taking the harder edges off of some sounds.  It also, at least to me, has a larger soundstage.  Magni 3 does a little better with details and adds the right amount of warmth so as not to be labeled a “clinical, overly analytical SS amp.”

Of course, all that is based on my ears.  Not sure if it makes a difference, but my Magni 3 only has about 20 hours of playtime, where my Vali 2 is probably closer to 100 hours.


----------



## BubbaJay

Ok, I'm looking to get either the Magni 3 or Vali 2 but I just need to know if the Magni 3 has the same sort of soundstage as the 2 does?  I have the Magni 2 that I pair with my Modi Multibit and it just sounds to closed in for me most of the time.  Even though my Fiio K5 isn't as clean sounding it does have a better soundstage so that's what I'm using at the moment.  I would be using my original Vali but it has a small channel imbalance which sucks because it sounds the best out of all my amps, and that's why I'm leaning toward the Vali 2.  If the Magni 3 has a bit larger soundstage then the 2 I think I'd go that way because of the clarity it offers.  If anyone has listen to both please let me know your thoughts.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

Renato Fury said:


> Yes.





luckybaer said:


> Ok.  I have the combo, and I can say that they work well together.  The only solid state amp I compared it to was a 2005 Headroom Micro Amp.  The micro amp was thin and dull compared to the Magni 3.  My only other amp is a Vali 2, and it offers a little different sound - different, not better or worse.
> 
> Vali 2 seems more lush and gentle, taking the harder edges off of some sounds.  It also, at least to me, has a larger soundstage.  Magni 3 does a little better with details and adds the right amount of warmth so as not to be labeled a “clinical, overly analytical SS amp.”
> 
> Of course, all that is based on my ears.  Not sure if it makes a difference, but my Magni 3 only has about 20 hours of playtime, where my Vali 2 is probably closer to 100 hours.



I can confirm just about all of this. I had a Modi Multibit & Vali 2 for several months before the buying the Magni 3 shortly after release. I sold my Vali 2 and am still using the Magni 3. To me, this combo handles all of my headphones with ease and sounds great.


----------



## loki993

Would you say that the treble or highs are recessed at all? How do you have the Modis connected to your computer?


----------



## vespenegas

loki993 said:


> Would you say that the treble or highs are recessed at all? How do you have the Modis connected to your computer?



Motherboard —> modi 2 via monoprice USB cable. I wouldn’t say the sound is veiled or recessed at all, more of an clean, balanced, forward presentation.


----------



## luckybaer

loki993 said:


> Would you say that the treble or highs are recessed at all? How do you have the Modis connected to your computer?


PC [USB] Eitr [Digital Coax] Modi 2 MB [RCA] Loki [usually bypassed] [RCA] Magni 3
I guess there's probably some roll-off in the upper region, but nothing that makes me think I'm missing out on anything.  To my ears, it is a pretty balanced, inviting sound - no fatigue or anything like that.


----------



## sennsay (Feb 20, 2018)

I use the Magni 3/Mimby stack regularly as my main headphone listening system, using the Sennheiser 600 ohm HD540 Ref1s and occasionally the HE400S. They are a brilliant combo! Smooth and even from top to bottom, neither bright nor dull, music is full of rhythm and life and quite extraordinary detail - the M3 is a _*very*_ capable amplifier way above it's station! The better your source the more you will hear, I am often astonished at it's level of image focus in clean pure space, I've often discovered new details in familiar tracks that have left me wide-eyed in surprise, with or without the Mimby (direct from the QP1R). Big open virtually 3D soundstage with the Ref1s, as listed below. Intimate sound with vocals that sound like real flesh and blood human beings. That includes the harder to reproduce backing vocals and those out to the sides of the soundstage, they are just as real as the central voice(s). That says a lot about the Mimby as well! QP1R DAP as source. The others, including the MacBook Pro are not as ultimately pristine, pure and quiet, though still great to listen to. Absolutely no listening fatigue. 
I've had the M3 around 2 months and the Mimby at least three weeks of almost constant use, so they're well run in. No clicks, pops, dodgy pots, no issues. Everything just works perfectly.


----------



## BubbaJay

Yeah for only $99 I just don't see any real downside to getting the M3 so I guess I'll go ahead and order mine now.


----------



## luckybaer

BubbaJay said:


> Yeah for only $99 I just don't see any real downside to getting the M3 so I guess I'll go ahead and order mine now.


That's the spirit!


----------



## JamminVMI

BubbaJay said:


> Yeah for only $99 I just don't see any real downside to getting the M3 so I guess I'll go ahead and order mine now.


Pretty much a no-brainer, couldn’t agree more! Enjoy!


----------



## ZMG885

BubbaJay said:


> Yeah for only $99 I just don't see any real downside to getting the M3 so I guess I'll go ahead and order mine now.



Agreeing with the positives from other posters, I'll add the Magni 3 makes a nice pre-amp for desktop powered monitors.  Excellent sound stage & imaging with a nice black background.  Can't go wrong here...


----------



## BubbaJay

ZMG885 said:


> Agreeing with the positives from other posters, I'll add the Magni 3 makes a nice pre-amp for desktop powered monitors.  Excellent sound stage & imaging with a nice black background.  Can't go wrong here...



That's a good point.  I've been planning on getting some desktop speakers so having ability to use the M3 is a big plus.


----------



## sennsay

ZMG885 said:


> Agreeing with the positives from other posters, I'll add the Magni 3 makes a nice pre-amp for desktop powered monitors.  Excellent sound stage & imaging with a nice black background.  Can't go wrong here...


I agree. Surprisingly, it does actually make for a nice clean preamp. I ran mine into a souped-up homebuilt kit amp with some good cables and found it was much better than the Valhalla 2 I used as a preamp once (that was enough). I can easily imagine that it would suit powered monitors admirably.


----------



## Renato Fury

_So many compliments, just make me sure that this will be my first amplifier, but what bothers me is the volume knob right next to the headphone cable, is that a nuisance to you too?_


----------



## sennsay

Renato Fury said:


> _So many compliments, just make me sure that this will be my first amplifier, but what bothers me is the volume knob right next to the headphone cable, is that a nuisance to you too?_


Not for a straight plug, if I use the angled plug on the HifiMAN cable in the adapter, then slightly. I rarely use the HE400S any more  So no bother there. I prefer the Senn HD540 Ref1s. This amp is capable of performing far above it's price and station!


----------



## VinylDan1

Renato Fury said:


>


Thats a sick setup, very neat cabling as well. Is that a gear from a Flathead Gearbox I spot by any chance?


----------



## BubbaJay

You have to love Schiit.  I ordered my Magni 3 late last night and they already shipped it and it will be here Friday, and that's with regular shipping.  Really looking forward to hearing it with my Mimby.


----------



## sennsay (Feb 22, 2018)

A day full of learning and  ... um .. hot Schiit. I learned that mild or even warm Schiit (Mimby especially!) just will not do! I had been playing with my QP1R DAP and the Senn HD540 Ref1s and went back to hear what the same tracks were like on the Magni 3/Mimby stack. An hour or so warm up is not enough. Two hours or so later and things had improved, the slight smearing of images had lessened somewhat and it still wasn't what I was used to. Hmm, another two or three hours and what a transformation! I'd been listening to Eva Cassidy's stunning voice, live in concert, Blues Alley. Hard to reproduce without some edge or exaggerating the slight sibilance that is recorded on some tracks, it was only after some hours of being left on did the whole performance envelope come right on song.
 All that wonderful focused solidity had returned in spades, no trace of spit or edge, no smearing and sibilance natural and well under control, just a totally immersing huge soundstage with real human beings playing as the terrific band that they are in a three dimensional space. Eva's voice full of power and clarity. I'm on stage with the musicians. Soundstage so expansive it seems like there is ambient sound coming from just behind my ears.
 Lesson learned, when I want to listen seriously with the finest sound this pair can manage, leave it on! I could clearly hear over several hours how the whole performance lifted it's game to what is at this moment outstanding. Total involvement, seemingly no electronics in the way at all, not even the headphones, which seem to scale up as the rest of the gear gets better. Brilliant.


----------



## Renato Fury

sennsay said:


> A day full of learning and  ... um .. hot Schiit. I learned that mild or even warm Schiit (Mimby especially!) just will not do! I had been playing with my QP1R DAP and the Senn HD540 Ref1s and went back to hear what the same tracks were like on the Magni 3/Mimby stack. An hour or so warm up is not enough. Two hours or so later and things had improved, the slight smearing of images had lessened somewhat and it still wasn't what I was used to. Hmm, another two or three hours and what a transformation! I'd been listening to Eva Cassidy's stunning voice, live in concert, Blues Alley. Hard to reproduce without some edge or exaggerating the slight sibilance that is recorded on some tracks, it was only after some hours of being left on did the whole performance envelope come right on song.
> All that wonderful focused solidity had returned in spades, no trace of spit or edge, no smearing and sibilance natural and well under control, just a totally immersing huge soundstage with real human beings playing as the terrific band that they are in a three dimensional space. Eva's voice full of power and clarity. I'm on stage with the musicians. Soundstage so expansive it seems like there is ambient sound coming from just behind my ears.
> Lesson learned, when I want to listen seriously with the finest sound this pair can manage, leave it on! I could clearly hear over several hours how the whole performance lifted it's game to what is at this moment outstanding. Total involvement, seemingly no electronics in the way at all, not even the headphones, which seem to scale up as the rest of the gear gets better. Brilliant.


I see from your photo that you have a Valhalla 2 which is known to have a detailed and expansive sound, ideal for live shows and concerts, so why use the magni 3 that I suppose to be inferior?


----------



## sennsay (Feb 24, 2018)

Renato Fury said:


> I see from your photo that you have a Valhalla 2 which is known to have a detailed and expansive sound, ideal for live shows and concerts, so why use the magni 3 that I suppose to be inferior?


A bit further back in this thread, I mentioned that my upgraded Senn HD540 Ref1 headphones ended up with a sonic sig very close to the same as the tube-upgraded V2. It was too much of a good thing, so to speak. After receiving the Magni 3 and giving it a good couple of weeks of listening and run in time, it was actually outperforming the V2 in transparency, image focus and detail, better timing (PRaT, if you like) and was noticeably cleaner in the silences between notes/instruments and musicians. The soundstage was incredibly quiet and clean, which allowed the tiniest of sounds no matter where on the soundstage, to be easily discerned, often details and incredibly quiet voices I'd never heard before. And that was without the Mimby! Just analogue out from the DAC of the QP1R into the M3. I was shocked at the difference, didn't like the occasional edge to vocals either in the V2, so I decided to sell it and buy a Mimby instead. It has been and _is_ a great trade off! With change in $$ terms into the bargain. My system has never looked back. The V2 might have a pretty good soundstage as such, but it is softer and more indistinct compared to the M3, with or without the Mimby. The M3 is simply way more transparent, is more than capable enough of showing up the differences between using my laptop via USB, the DAP via either optical or analogue out, any cable changes etc. Maybe the V2 really is a more natural pairing with the HD700/800s etc and a great DAC, but even Currawong preferred a tube upgraded Vali 2 to the Valhalla 2 no matter what tubes were used.
The Magni 3 isn't just a bargain at the price, it's flamin' outrageous


----------



## Hofy

sennsay said:


> A day full of learning and  ... um .. hot Schiit. I learned that mild or even warm Schiit (Mimby especially!) just will not do! I had been playing with my QP1R DAP and the Senn HD540 Ref1s and went back to hear what the same tracks were like on the Magni 3/Mimby stack. An hour or so warm up is not enough. Two hours or so later and things had improved, the slight smearing of images had lessened somewhat and it still wasn't what I was used to. Hmm, another two or three hours and what a transformation! I'd been listening to Eva Cassidy's stunning voice, live in concert, Blues Alley. Hard to reproduce without some edge or exaggerating the slight sibilance that is recorded on some tracks, it was only after some hours of being left on did the whole performance envelope come right on song.
> All that wonderful focused solidity had returned in spades, no trace of spit or edge, no smearing and sibilance natural and well under control, just a totally immersing huge soundstage with real human beings playing as the terrific band that they are in a three dimensional space. Eva's voice full of power and clarity. I'm on stage with the musicians. Soundstage so expansive it seems like there is ambient sound coming from just behind my ears.
> Lesson learned, when I want to listen seriously with the finest sound this pair can manage, leave it on! I could clearly hear over several hours how the whole performance lifted it's game to what is at this moment outstanding. Total involvement, seemingly no electronics in the way at all, not even the headphones, which seem to scale up as the rest of the gear gets better. Brilliant.



Both my Mimby and M3 have been on since I first got them.  Never turn them off.


----------



## Renato Fury

How long does Mimby need to stay connected to reach its maximum potential ?


----------



## sennsay

Renato Fury said:


> How long does Mimby need to stay connected to reach its maximum potential ?


My experience the other days says several hours, well after the top of the case gets warm. Several folks with the Mimby's big brother, Yggy, found that best performance from new was measured in weeks and it was still slowly evolving from there. All those extra parts and resistors as part of a ladder DAC. I'm thinking Hofy has the best idea, if they're left in situ, leave 'em on as they use little power, far less than a small light bulb - globe for those in the States  Both together is less than a salt lamp bulb at 15W.


----------



## Renato Fury

sennsay said:


> My experience the other days says several hours, well after the top of the case gets warm. Several folks with the Mimby's big brother, Yggy, found that best performance from new was measured in weeks and it was still slowly evolving from there. All those extra parts and resistors as part of a ladder DAC. I'm thinking Hofy has the best idea, if they're left in situ, leave 'em on as they use little power, far less than a small light bulb - globe for those in the States  Both together is less than a salt lamp bulb at 15W.


Weeks? Are you talking about burning or temperature? Because from what I read some dacs get better with a certain temperature, so if you're talking about burning, it would make sense, but let them on for weeks to reach the ideal temperature and consequently the ideal sound seems to me an exaggeration.


----------



## sennsay (Feb 23, 2018)

Renato Fury said:


> Weeks? Are you talking about burning or temperature? Because from what I read some dacs get better with a certain temperature, so if you're talking about burning, it would make sense, but let them on for weeks to reach the ideal temperature and consequently the ideal sound seems to me an exaggeration.


Ah no, sorry, that was for initial burn in time  _Then_ you keep it warm for serious listening!

P.S. Check out the June 5th 2017 review of the Yggy DAC in TAS magazine. It took a full month to come on song ....  and ohhhh when it did ... !


----------



## ZMG885

Renato Fury said:


> How long does Mimby need to stay connected to reach its maximum potential ?



I find my Mimby/Magni 3 stack comes to stable temp in less than an hour, and I notice very little variation after the first 30min, and any variation from cold start is subtle.  I don't often leave it on 24/7, but fire it up in the AM with my computers and off at night.   I've also got hundreds of hours of usage now.  The other thing to remember is the mimby/magni stack is small and compact, so not a lot of volume to heat up and become stable.  Yggy on the other hand is massive in comparison in both parts volume, air space and chassis, so yeah, it should take a whole lot longer to become thermally stable.


----------



## sennsay

ZMG885 said:


> I find my Mimby/Magni 3 stack comes to stable temp in less than an hour, and I notice very little variation after the first 30min, and any variation from cold start is subtle.  I don't often leave it on 24/7, but fire it up in the AM with my computers and off at night.   I've also got hundreds of hours of usage now.  The other thing to remember is the mimby/magni stack is small and compact, so not a lot of volume to heat up and become stable.  Yggy on the other hand is massive in comparison in both parts volume, air space and chassis, so yeah, it should take a whole lot longer to become thermally stable.


What you say is true, regarding the size difference, for sure. My experience the other day was quite marked and I also had a gap of several hours between an hour or two of warm up and serious listening time, with the same pieces of music. I imagine that if I was listening on and off over several hours the difference may have been less dramatic for me. I'm just trying to remember if I also had a glass of wine with dinner that day ..........


----------



## ZMG885

sennsay said:


> What you say is true, regarding the size difference, for sure. My experience the other day was quite marked and I also had a gap of several hours between an hour or two of warm up and serious listening time, with the same pieces of music. I imagine that if I was listening on and off over several hours the difference may have been less dramatic for me. I'm just trying to remember if I also had a glass of wine with dinner that day ..........



Yes!  I find a good wine makes all my gear sound better.


----------



## DavidA

ZMG885 said:


> Yes!  I find a good wine makes all my gear sound better.




think any of these will work for you?


----------



## JamminVMI

DavidA said:


> think any of these will work for you?


The Cain 5, per favore!

Had a Caymus the other night that was stellar! Oh, and my Schiit sounds better after wine, too!


----------



## sennsay

DavidA said:


> think any of these will work for you?


Hmmm ... let me see ....... all the red ones!


----------



## DavidA

@JamminVMI, sadly all of these bottles were consumed last week for Valentines day but I do say you must be a wine drinker since not to many know of the Cain 5.  I'm on their preferred customer list and usually get an allotment of 4 Cain 5, 4 Cain Concept, and 4 Cain Cuvee.


----------



## sennsay

DavidA said:


> think any of these will work for you?


Hmmm ... let me see ....... all the red ones!


----------



## DavidA (Feb 24, 2018)

Sorry for the double post


----------



## sennsay

DavidA said:


> think any of these will work for you?


Hmmm ... let me see ....... all the red ones!


----------



## sennsay

sennsay said:


> Hmmm ... let me see ....... all the red ones!


Yes, mine double posted somehow as well, for some reason I couldn't upload a reply for a while and the site went dead before that.


----------



## JamminVMI

DavidA said:


> @JamminVMI, sadly all of these bottles were consumed last week for Valentines day but I do say you must be a wine drinker since not to many know of the Cain 5.  I'm on their preferred customer list and usually get an allotment of 4 Cain 5, 4 Cain Concept, and 4 Cain Cuvee.


I am indeed... Even here in the home of Schiit, we drink wine AND listen to great music. Check out Viña Robles in Paso sometime, they r doing some amazing things both red and white...


----------



## DavidA (Feb 24, 2018)

JamminVMI said:


> I am indeed... Even here in the home of Schiit, we drink wine AND listen to great music. Check out Viña Robles in Paso sometime, they r doing some amazing things both red and white...


Thanks for the wine tip, I'll look them up to see if I can find them here in Hawaii.

@sennsay, I had the same problem, LOL.  I was thinking it might be me getting mixed up since my GF and 2 of her friends are drinking Soju and we are on the 8th bottle.

​Also have some decent sashimi to go with it.


----------



## sennsay (Feb 24, 2018)

DavidA said:


> Thanks for the wine tip, I'll look them up to see if I can find them here in Hawaii.
> 
> @sennsay, I had the same problem, LOL.  I was thinking it might be me getting mixed up since my GF and 2 of her friends are drinking Soju and we are on the 8th bottle.
> 
> ​Also have some decent sashimi to go with it.


My partner's just drank all the wine! Sheesh. Just as well the bottle shop (liquor store in the States?) is only 40 metres down the road! Over here, it would be a classy Cab/Merlot or straight Cabernet from either the Clare Valley or McLaren Vale in South Australia for me, my partner will drink anything from $5 to $50, though preferably from the cheaper ranks, much of it still pretty fine anyway  Just add a Schiit stack and Sennheiser HD540 Ref1s to top it off for me! Just to keep it on thread topic and all that  Otherwise just add really great company.


----------



## DavidA

Soju is really cheap stuff, $3.50/bottle here in Hawaii and its about as strong as Sake but stronger than most wines.  The wine for Valentines days is a different story since most of the bottles in the picture are upwards of $100 with the magnum of Sea Smoke pinot noir at $240 8 years ago IIRC but its one of the best pinot's that I've had in the last 20 years and the Cain 5 that @JamminVMI noted is $120-140 if you can find it these days.  With all this talk of drinks I'm going to have to borrow the Magni3 from my friend tomorrow and see verify if it does sound better after a glass or two but it was good/great paired with a HD800, HD700, HD660S, T1gen1 and HE560 when I was sober, LOL.


----------



## joeexp

Renato Fury said:


> How long does Mimby need to stay connected to reach its maximum potential ?


About half the time of its bigger brothers.
4-5 days! 
Just leave it on.


----------



## BubbaJay

Well, I've used my Magni 3 for about 5 hours now and it is a big improvement over the Magni 2.  It has a much cleaner and detailed sound and the headphones I've used all sound really good.  To me it's not a warm or bright amp, it just sounds right.  I do wish the soundstage was a bit more expansive but that's not really a drawback because of how nice it sounds.  The Mimby sounds great and all my music sounds so much cleaner now, even 320 mp3's sound better.  So far I'm very impressed with it and looking forward to listening to more music.


----------



## sennsay

BubbaJay said:


> Well, I've used my Magni 3 for about 5 hours now and it is a big improvement over the Magni 2.  It has a much cleaner and detailed sound and the headphones I've used all sound really good.  To me it's not a warm or bright amp, it just sounds right.  I do wish the soundstage was a bit more expansive but that's not really a drawback because of how nice it sounds.  The Mimby sounds great and all my music sounds so much cleaner now, even 320 mp3's sound better.  So far I'm very impressed with it and looking forward to listening to more music.


You should find that the soundstage will expand over the next few days and week or two, I have a virtual 3D stage with my Senn Ref1s. Headphone and source dependent, of course  Glad you're enjoying it!


----------



## ZMG885

DavidA said:


> think any of these will work for you?



Yes they would!


----------



## Renato Fury

_I think I'm the only one here who hates alcohol, but anyway, could anyone tell me how the Magni 3's performance is directly connected to the sound card? Preferably a realtek._


----------



## mmmadog

Been leaving my m3 Schiit stack on all the time after noticing it get better for me after warming up. My Schiit dac never shuts off after shutting down the computer. Much thicker and kind of lush. I'm listening to Thin Lizzy Renegade album and really really liking it. Of course this is after America's finest Coor's Light ice cold in a 16oz can............


----------



## mmmadog

This is through Hd650's by the way.....


----------



## JamminVMI

Het! We drink beer, too! Ellie’s brown, also out of CO, for me, please.

Haven’t tried leaving the M3 on all the time, but do try to turn it on 15-30 minutes in adv. Wife rolls her eyes when I ask Alexa to “turn on the Schiit stack” — but my grin trumps her eye roll every time!


----------



## mmmadog

How the heck does it turn on the stack??? I figure that's why Schiit puts switches in the back because it's ment to be left on. Jason said it hurts nothing to leave them on.


----------



## JamminVMI

mmmadog said:


> How the heck does it turn on the stack??? I figure that's why Schiit puts switches in the back because it's ment to be left on. Jason said it hurts nothing to leave them on.


I have the M3 and Loki powered by a Cthulhu and plugged into a WeMo smart plug.  Used to b a Modi 2 Uber there as well, but since I Bifrosted, the DAC just stays on.


----------



## mmmadog

I messed up when I bought my stack because I got the basic dac. No room to plug in a cd player. But for a little over 200 bucks I cannot complain. Plus Made In America.


----------



## mmmadog

I was always told to leave preamps on all the time. Never tried it.....


----------



## mmmadog

If Schiit made a SS preamp I would like to give it a try. Never like like leaving tubes on all the time.


----------



## Byronb

Renato Fury said:


> _I think I'm the only one here who hates alcohol, but anyway, could anyone tell me how the Magni 3's performance is directly connected to the sound card? Preferably a realtek._


You aren't. It occasionally gets boring, but it's all good.


----------



## ZMG885

mmmadog said:


> If Schiit made a SS preamp I would like to give it a try. Never like like leaving tubes on all the time.



More mythology about stuff needing to be powered all the time. Leaving tubes on all the time isn't necessary and shortens their life, and in my mind, can become a safety issue.  Had a guitar tube amp burn out the power tubes and blow the 3amp fuse, because I forgot to shut it off and left it on over a weekend.  That said, I've been running tube amps for years.  They just need a little time to come up to temp and their good to go.  

It's worth checking out the Schiit pre-amps.  Both Freya and Saga have passive modes, and Schiit has LISST tubes available for a full solid-state operation.


----------



## mmmadog

I have a Valhalla 1 And don't use it because I'm afraid I will go to work and forget to shut it off. I like the amp but no bass with my setup. I cannot grasp the reason for Schiit and there Preamps. Usually You want a tube pre or a SS pre but not both. Maybe I'm to old  school


----------



## mmmadog

Just listened to Yosi Horikawa live Tokyo and had to turn my Schiit down 3 times because it was too loud. Again through hd650's. Some good Schiit.....


----------



## ZMG885 (Feb 25, 2018)

mmmadog said:


> I have a Valhalla 1 And don't use it because I'm afraid I will go to work and forget to shut it off. I like the amp but no bass with my setup. I cannot grasp the reason for Schiit and there Preamps. Usually You want a tube pre or a SS pre but not both. Maybe I'm to old  school



Good point, and if you look at the 2-Channel line Schiit is building they have two tube/hybrid pre-amps both with remote volume control and a SS power-amp for speakers.   Myself, I've a late 1980's Carver C-1 solid-state pre-amp (completely updated with new caps/resistors and op-amps) to run a tube poweramp.  I looked at the Schiit Freya, but I already had this project in play and I like controls on the C-1 better.


----------



## BubbaJay

I have to say that I'm quite surprised at just how much better music sounds now compared to when I was using the Magni 2.  The Magni 3 pairs so well with the Mimby and my Elear that my music has new life now.  Everything sounds so much clearer and cleaner and it's hard to believe that it comes from a $99 amp.  Not to mention just how much power it has and the fact you can run desktop speakers with it, it really is the best value amp ever.


----------



## sennsay

BubbaJay said:


> I have to say that I'm quite surprised at just how much better music sounds now compared to when I was using the Magni 2.  The Magni 3 pairs so well with the Mimby and my Elear that my music has new life now.  Everything sounds so much clearer and cleaner and it's hard to believe that it comes from a $99 amp.  Not to mention just how much power it has and the fact you can run desktop speakers with it, it really is the best value amp ever.


Yes, your last comment matches my own experience too, even over many years of hi-fi buffing. Astoundingly good. How do you find the HE400i with the M3? I sometimes use my HE400S and as good as it _can_ be with some gear, I'm just never convinced enough musically to listen for long with them, much preferring the more natural sounding and less fatiguing HD540 Ref1s. They _are_ really great with the QP1R though!


----------



## BubbaJay

sennsay said:


> Yes, your last comment matches my own experience too, even over many years of hi-fi buffing. Astoundingly good. How do you find the HE400i with the M3? I sometimes use my HE400S and as good as it _can_ be with some gear, I'm just never convinced enough musically to listen for long with them, much preferring the more natural sounding and less fatiguing HD540 Ref1s. They _are_ really great with the QP1R though!



I haven't listened to my HE400i yet but I have used my Nighthawk and it sounds better than ever.  I'll try to see how my 400i and HD700 sound later tonight but it's hard to put down my Elear at the moment.


----------



## sennsay

BubbaJay said:


> I haven't listened to my HE400i yet but I have used my Nighthawk and it sounds better than ever.  I'll try to see how my 400i and HD700 sound later tonight but it's hard to put down my Elear at the moment.


Well great! I feel the same way about the Ref1s! I love it that we can get so enamoured with a gear match that it's hard to get away from it. You use the Mimby with the M3, I take it? Actually, last night I was using the Mimby/M3/Ref1s combo as the sound system, via optical out from my MacBook Pro, to watch several eps of a new favourite Netflix show as I didn't want to disturb my partner  The sound was so utterly natural it was as if there were no electronics anywhere, just immersion in the soundstage.


----------



## GenEricOne

BubbaJay said:


> I have to say that I'm quite surprised at just how much better music sounds now compared to when I was using the Magni 2.  The Magni 3 pairs so well with the Mimby and my Elear that my music has new life now.  Everything sounds so much clearer and cleaner and it's hard to believe that it comes from a $99 amp.  Not to mention just how much power it has and the fact you can run desktop speakers with it, it really is the best value amp ever.


Completely agree. I just upgraded from a Fulla 2 to a Mimby + Magni 3 and was just as surprised how much more there was to my music on my Pro 900 and DT990. I mostly listen to EDM and prefer a fun balance and the Mimby+Magni 3 upgrade was so worth it. 

On one hand, it makes me wonder if there's even more and what I should look to get next for DAC/Amp. On the other hand, I've also added a few new cans (TH-X00 PH, M1060C, and HE-400i) and this hobby is getting expensive.


----------



## BubbaJay

GenEricOne said:


> Completely agree. I just upgraded from a Fulla 2 to a Mimby + Magni 3 and was just as surprised how much more there was to my music on my Pro 900 and DT990. I mostly listen to EDM and prefer a fun balance and the Mimby+Magni 3 upgrade was so worth it.
> 
> On one hand, it makes me wonder if there's even more and what I should look to get next for DAC/Amp. On the other hand, I've also added a few new cans (TH-X00 PH, M1060C, and HE-400i) and this hobby is getting expensive.



I also listen to a lot of EDM and the M3/Mimby combo is perfect for me.  The clarity and detail are quite a bit better than with my Magni 2 and all my flac files really sound amazing now.  Also, the cinematic music like Hans Zimmer has more texture and feel to it and now I want to watch Inception and Interstellar again.


----------



## GearMe

GenEricOne said:


> Completely agree. I just upgraded from a Fulla 2 to a Mimby + Magni 3 and was just as surprised how much more there was to my music on my Pro 900 and DT990. I mostly listen to EDM and prefer a fun balance and the Mimby+Magni 3 upgrade was so worth it.
> 
> On one hand, it makes me wonder if there's even more and what I should look to get next for DAC/Amp. On the other hand, I've also added a few new cans (TH-X00 PH, M1060C, and HE-400i) and this hobby is getting expensive.


Everybody has their own take on how far should you climb the hardware ladder...you can buy DACs and Amps that cost more than a solid used car.  FWIW, I settled on mid-tier equipment that's suited to the use case (i.e. OTL amp for high impedance cans, SS for others) and that's worked well for me.  It allows me to do what you're doing on the headphone side...add cans with different sound signatures that I use based on genre, mood, etc.


----------



## DavidA

GenEricOne said:


> Completely agree. I just upgraded from a Fulla 2 to a Mimby + Magni 3 and was just as surprised how much more there was to my music on my Pro 900 and DT990. I mostly listen to EDM and prefer a fun balance and the Mimby+Magni 3 upgrade was so worth it.
> 
> On one hand, it makes me wonder if there's even more and what I should look to get next for DAC/Amp. On the other hand, I've also added a few new cans (TH-X00 PH, M1060C, and HE-400i) and this hobby is getting expensive.


Get a tube amp (Elise or similar which has separate power and driver tube) and see how fast the cost of tubes add up.  Another sign that you have a spending problem is when your table looks like this:




and there are 7 missing: SR009, T1gen1, SRD-34, RS2e, SR225e, Ypislon and SennGrado build


----------



## BubbaJay

I finally got around to trying my HE-400i and HD700 with the new setup and they sound fine but compared to my Elear and Nighthawk they're a step behind.  The 400i sounded clean but it doesn't have enough depth for me so it sounds a bit flat imo.  The HD700 was a bit better, I actually enjoyed them but the sibilance came through more than they did from the Magni 2 which I didn't expect.

My Nighthawk is the headphone I use the most behind the Elear and it sounds really good with this setup.  They don't sound quite as dark now and I feel the mids come through a bit more now.  Bass still has the thump I love but with a cleaner sound and the rumble you get from the deep notes sounds better as well.  Highs are crisper and actually have more sparkle now which is something people don't associate with the Nighthawk.  Soundstage sounds about the same but with better separation overall.

I've just had the Magni 3 for about 4 days and it has been better than I thought it would be, and I thought it was going to be really good to begin with.  How they can only charge $99 is amazing and I feel bad for other companies that make budget amps because they're going to have to step they're game up.


----------



## DavidA

@BubbaJay, the HD700 is probably better off with a hybrid or tube amp from what I've tried so far but it does sound quite good on some SS amps like the HA-501, Liquid Carbon and Polaris.  I've tried them on my friends Magni3 and its okay but I can see where they are borderline sibilant at times.  The HE400i is easy to drive but can sound off with some amps and I've never cared for them with my Magni, Lyr2, Asgard2 or my friends Magni3 (basically it doesn't like to play with schitt IMO).  I had the Nighthawks for a few months but I could never get accustomed to the over all dark but some times sibilant nature of them.  Haven't heard the Elear yet but a friend told me to pass on them since he has them and knows me quite well since he knows that I usually listen at a relatively low levels (60-75dB) and he feels that the Elear doesn't sound decent until about 85dB,  he also feel that the mids are a bit too recessed for my preferences, and he's heard my highly modded HE400 that he likes better than his Elear.


----------



## sennsay

DavidA said:


> Get a tube amp (Elise or similar which has separate power and driver tube) and see how fast the cost of tubes add up.  Another sign that you have a spending problem is when your table looks like this:
> 
> and there are 7 missing: SR009, T1gen1, SRD-34, RS2e, SR225e, Ypislon and SennGrado build


Wow and OMG and I thought I used to be a gear nut    I empathise to a degree, I kinda like having a few headphone options.


----------



## sennsay

DavidA said:


> @BubbaJay, the HD700 is probably better off with a hybrid or tube amp from what I've tried so far but it does sound quite good on some SS amps like the HA-501, Liquid Carbon and Polaris.  I've tried them on my friends Magni3 and its okay but I can see where they are borderline sibilant at times.  The HE400i is easy to drive but can sound off with some amps and I've never cared for them with my Magni, Lyr2, Asgard2 or my friends Magni3 (basically it doesn't like to play with schitt IMO).  I had the Nighthawks for a few months but I could never get accustomed to the over all dark but some times sibilant nature of them.  Haven't heard the Elear yet but a friend told me to pass on them since he has them and knows me quite well since he knows that I usually listen at a relatively low levels (60-75dB) and he feels that the Elear doesn't sound decent until about 85dB,  he also feel that the mids are a bit too recessed for my preferences, and he's heard my highly modded HE400 that he likes better than his Elear.


From what Tom at Schiit has told me, they use the Valhalla 2 with upgraded tubes for their HD700/800 cans and I can imagine they'd be pretty good with the V2, after my own experiences with the same amp and tubes.


----------



## DavidA

sennsay said:


> From what Tom at Schiit has told me, they use the Valhalla 2 with upgraded tubes for their HD700/800 cans and I can imagine they'd be pretty good with the V2, after my own experiences with the same amp and tubes.


The Valhalla2 was a strange amp to me the few times I had borrowed it from a friend since it didn't seems to take on the character of the tubes rolled (driver only) and the over all sound was a bit lean and dry so I've never revisited it.  The Mgni3 is a bit warmer and fuller compared to the Valhalla2 but this is going from memory since its been a few years since I heard a Valhalla2.

Do you know what the "upgraded" tubes were and if it was only the drivers or the power tubes also?


----------



## sennsay

DavidA said:


> The Valhalla2 was a strange amp to me the few times I had borrowed it from a friend since it didn't seems to take on the character of the tubes rolled (driver only) and the over all sound was a bit lean and dry so I've never revisited it.  The Mgni3 is a bit warmer and fuller compared to the Valhalla2 but this is going from memory since its been a few years since I heard a Valhalla2.
> 
> Do you know what the "upgraded" tubes were and if it was only the drivers or the power tubes also?


I liked it to a point but once I really started to listen to my Sennheiser HD540 Ref1s with the Magni 3, the latter completely outperformed it. Transparency, detail, focus and speed were all superior, though I have to say that the modified Ref1s became too similar to the V2 in balance and became soft and slower, also noisier. This, despite the apparent 2X power output into 600 ohms of the V2 over the Magni 3. 
Upgraded tubes were only the inputs and on Tom's recommendation were the superb Amperex Orange Globe 1968 6DJ8s. They sounded fabulous ... until I began upgraded the Ref1s with much better pads and cable. As soon as I really got into hearing what the M3 could do with the Ref1s, I sold the V2 and bought a Mimby instead, with change left over, sonically a significant upgrade all round.


----------



## BubbaJay

DavidA said:


> @BubbaJay, the HD700 is probably better off with a hybrid or tube amp from what I've tried so far but it does sound quite good on some SS amps like the HA-501, Liquid Carbon and Polaris.  I've tried them on my friends Magni3 and its okay but I can see where they are borderline sibilant at times.  The HE400i is easy to drive but can sound off with some amps and I've never cared for them with my Magni, Lyr2, Asgard2 or my friends Magni3 (basically it doesn't like to play with schitt IMO).  I had the Nighthawks for a few months but I could never get accustomed to the over all dark but some times sibilant nature of them.  Haven't heard the Elear yet but a friend told me to pass on them since he has them and knows me quite well since he knows that I usually listen at a relatively low levels (60-75dB) and he feels that the Elear doesn't sound decent until about 85dB,  he also feel that the mids are a bit too recessed for my preferences, and he's heard my highly modded HE400 that he likes better than his Elear.



Yeah, with the HD700 I've heard it on a tube amp and it was much better sounding with the highs any sibilance.  I've always hated bright headphones and overall I haven't found my HD700 to have a lot of sibilances which was surprising to me.  When they sounding brighter with the Magni 3 I was quite surprised but it wasn't too bad for the most part.

As for the Elear not sounding good tell around 85dB I have to say that's somewhat true.  I listen to them anywhere from about 75dB to 85dB but I've also listened to them at about 65dB.  At 65dB they still sound really good but you don't get the full feel tell about 10dB more, they just sound more dynamic the louder you listen to them.  I'm a mids kind of guy and I don't find the Elear to be recessed much at all in the mids.  There is a small dip around 4kHz but it's not that bad and a little EQ helps quite a bit.  I know the new Clear is supposed to have that fixed but the bass isn't as punch, plus it doesn't sound that much different than the Elear.


----------



## GearMe

DavidA said:


> @BubbaJay, *the HD700 is probably better off with a hybrid or tube amp* from what I've tried so far but it does sound quite good on some SS amps like the HA-501, Liquid Carbon and Polaris.  I've tried them on my friends Magni3 and its okay but I can see where they are borderline sibilant at times.  The *HE400i is easy to drive but can sound off with some amps and I've never cared for them with my Magni*, Lyr2, Asgard2 or my friends Magni3 (basically it doesn't like to play with schitt IMO).  I had the Nighthawks for a few months but I could never get accustomed to the over all dark but some times sibilant nature of them.  Haven't heard the Elear yet but a friend told me to pass on them since he has them and knows me quite well since he knows that I usually listen at a relatively low levels (60-75dB) and he feels that the Elear doesn't sound decent until about 85dB,  he also feel that the mids are a bit too recessed for my preferences, and he's heard my highly modded HE400 that he likes better than his Elear.



Yep...we certainly have similar listening tastes/views.


----------



## bobspencer123

I just got a Magni 3 and so far am very impressed. I am primarily a 2 channel audio listener but wanted to dip my toes in the headphone listening. I have to say for $100 this seems like a real steal. I'm listening through AKG K550 but have signed up for the most recent Sennheiser HD6xx massdrop so I will be excited when those come this summer.


----------



## Tuneslover

The last thing I need is yet another headphone amp but man do I like value based products, and Schiit certainly has them, I'm thinking $99!  Why the heck not!


----------



## luckybaer

Tuneslover said:


> The last thing I need is yet another headphone amp but man do I like value based products, and Schiit certainly has them, I'm thinking $99!  Why the heck not!


That’s the spirit!  That was precisely my thought process.


----------



## vespenegas

Tuneslover said:


> The last thing I need is yet another headphone amp but man do I like value based products, and Schiit certainly has them, I'm thinking $99!  Why the heck not!



Considering they have excellent quality and resale value, you’re risking next to nothing by picking one up


----------



## crazychile

Tuneslover said:


> The last thing I need is yet another headphone amp but man do I like value based products, and Schiit certainly has them, I'm thinking $99!  Why the heck not!



Thats what I thought. Initially I bought one as an interim amp while waiting for the Massdrop MCTH. I ended up selling a much more expensive amp because I liked the Magni 3 as much. So now that the MCTH is here, I keep that one at home and the Magni 3 at work.


----------



## Ad-Astra

Is it worth an investment if I have the ifi dsd black label?


----------



## DamageInc77

EU dealer in the Netherlands just got a small shipment of between 15-20 Magni 3 amps this evening. All sold out very quickly. Managed to snag one for myself.


----------



## sennsay

crazychile said:


> Thats what I thought. Initially I bought one as an interim amp while waiting for the Massdrop MCTH. I ended up selling a much more expensive amp because I liked the Magni 3 as much. So now that the MCTH is here, I keep that one at home and the Magni 3 at work.


Do you use Yggy at home with the Magni 3? And if you do ... cough it up, what does it sound like  Too much of a good thing for the M3, or will the M3 scale up some more with a DAC of this calibre?


----------



## sennsay

A message from Massdrop saying the HD6XX have arrived early and are just being checked for QC as we speak. Might even get mine before the end of the month. I'm fascinated to find out how my upscaled HD540 Ref1s will shape up compared to the much newer HD6XX. I am already a little sceptical that my long time favourites will be usurped from the throne of musical joy, so eagerly provided by the Ref1s. We shall see, the HD6XX will probably take some time to break in, as did the original 650s. 
 The whole system had a mighty blast last night with a big dose of that great Aussie rock group, The Angels, Live. Wowza! Try "Take A Long Line" for a massive blast of fabulous high speed knock out Aussie rock and roll from the very best years of the genre! Followed by "I Ain't The One"!! Imagine THAT in a very smoky, small, rowdy and packed out pub (bar) with a bunch of rather drunk punters ... actually, VERY drunk punters, this is where Aussie rock was born in 70's. There's been nothing quite like it since. This is also where AccaDacca (AC/DC) was born. Sometimes I've just gotta go back there for a while


----------



## crazychile

sennsay said:


> Do you use Yggy at home with the Magni 3? And if you do ... cough it up, what does it sound like  Too much of a good thing for the M3, or will the M3 scale up some more with a DAC of this calibre?



I've used the M3 at home briefly with the Yggy and it sounds great, but that was never the intent. I really bought it for the office to use with the Bifrost Multibit, and again it sounds great in that system too. The advantages of the Yggy are apparent with the M3, so it does scale up to some extent, but I would never recommend this as a long term solution. If someone buys a Yggy, pair it with a better amp.  I think a more sensible match for the M3 is the Bifrost MB or the Mimby, and I could be happy with that if it were my only system. The home system is Yggy into Massdrop MCTH or Mjolnir ExStata when using electrostatics. 

My primary dynamic headphones are the Sennheiser HD-650 and the Fostex TH-X00, with the Sennheisers getting about 80% of the listening time. The M3 works great with both. The MCTH is better than M3 with the Sennheisers, actually a really superb synergy there. I think the M3 is a little better with the Fostex than with the MCTH.


----------



## no00wa (Mar 7, 2018)

Also just ordered my first (headphone) AMP yesterday, the Magni 3. Luckily I knew they were going to have a few in stock in The Netherlands otherwise it would have been too late.

Now let's hope it’s going to be good together with my Creative ZxR, even though there will be double amping.


----------



## sennsay

crazychile said:


> I've used the M3 at home briefly with the Yggy and it sounds great, but that was never the intent. I really bought it for the office to use with the Bifrost Multibit, and again it sounds great in that system too. The advantages of the Yggy are apparent with the M3, so it does scale up to some extent, but I would never recommend this as a long term solution. If someone buys a Yggy, pair it with a better amp.  I think a more sensible match for the M3 is the Bifrost MB or the Mimby, and I could be happy with that if it were my only system. The home system is Yggy into Massdrop MCTH or Mjolnir ExStata when using electrostatics.
> 
> My primary dynamic headphones are the Sennheiser HD-650 and the Fostex TH-X00, with the Sennheisers getting about 80% of the listening time. The M3 works great with both. The MCTH is better than M3 with the Sennheisers, actually a really superb synergy there. I think the M3 is a little better with the Fostex than with the MCTH.


Cool, though I wouldn't have expected a long term (un)match up between Yggy and M3  Just to get an idea of any upscaling, which you have answered. My own Magni 3/Mimby combo is really quite brilliant and extremely satisfying, especially with the 600 ohm Ref1s.


----------



## 441879

DavidA said:


> @BubbaJay, the HD700 is probably better off with a hybrid or tube amp from what I've tried so far but it does sound quite good on some SS amps like the HA-501, Liquid Carbon and Polaris.  I've tried them on my friends Magni3 and its okay but I can see where they are borderline sibilant at times.  The HE400i is easy to drive but can sound off with some amps and I've never cared for them with my Magni, Lyr2, Asgard2 or my friends Magni3 (basically it doesn't like to play with schitt IMO).  I had the Nighthawks for a few months but I could never get accustomed to the over all dark but some times sibilant nature of them.  Haven't heard the Elear yet but a friend told me to pass on them since he has them and knows me quite well since he knows that I usually listen at a relatively low levels (60-75dB) and he feels that the Elear doesn't sound decent until about 85dB,  he also feel that the mids are a bit too recessed for my preferences, and he's heard my highly modded HE400 that he likes better than his Elear.



I received a Modi 2U, Magni 3 and 400i this week. The Modi and Magni replacing a Teac HA-P50 portable. The Modi and Magni came in first and I was very impressed how much of a difference they made with my ATH-MSR7 (taming a slightly harsh sibilance). All my headphones sounded a little more punchier on bass too, so a great upgrade. I did notice the Modi occasionally hiccups on the output from my computer and IPhone, so not perfect, but it’s not frequent and the sound is a noticeably better. The 400i showed up a day later and the sound is fantastic to me. Easily my favorite amongst my headphones and well worth the price paid. I hesitate to ask since I’m probably better off ignorant, but what are you hearing that’s off?


----------



## DavidA

will f said:


> I received a Modi 2U, Magni 3 and 400i this week. The Modi and Magni replacing a Teac HA-P50 portable. The Modi and Magni came in first and I was very impressed how much of a difference they made with my ATH-MSR7 (taming a slightly harsh sibilance). All my headphones sounded a little more punchier on bass too, so a great upgrade. I did notice the Modi occasionally hiccups on the output from my computer and IPhone, so not perfect, but it’s not frequent and the sound is a noticeably better. The 400i showed up a day later and the sound is fantastic to me. Easily my favorite amongst my headphones and well worth the price paid. I hesitate to ask since I’m probably better off ignorant, but what are you hearing that’s off?


The thing that sounds "off" with the HE400i is how the highs can be a bit harsh/sibilant with some amps like the Lyr2, Asgard2 and Magni/3 for some tracks and really smooth and extended with other amps with the same track.  Just to clarify my HE400i is the older one with back plate and SMC jacks so if you have the newer HE400i without the back plate and 2.5mm jacks then this might not be the case.


----------



## 441879

DavidA said:


> The thing that sounds "off" with the HE400i is how the highs can be a bit harsh/sibilant with some amps like the Lyr2, Asgard2 and Magni/3 for some tracks and really smooth and extended with other amps with the same track.  Just to clarify my HE400i is the older one with back plate and SMC jacks so if you have the newer HE400i without the back plate and 2.5mm jacks then this might not be the case.



It is a new one. I remember seeing two radically different frequency response curves for an early 400i and the current 400i so it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if they sound quite different. IIRC yours probably has quite a bit more bass extension. I was thinking about getting a Lyr2 and rolling some tubes for fun but nothing I’ve read leads me to think I would find it worthwhile with a 400i, but then again, I don’t know if most of the opinions I’ve read are based on the old or new version.


----------



## DavidA

will f said:


> It is a new one. I remember seeing two radically different frequency response curves for an early 400i and the current 400i so it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if they sound quite different. IIRC yours probably has quite a bit more bass extension. I was thinking about getting a Lyr2 and rolling some tubes for fun but nothing I’ve read leads me to think I would find it worthwhile with a 400i, but then again, I don’t know if most of the opinions I’ve read are based on the old or new version.



I'm not sure if mine has more bass extension but it is slightly warmer over all and more extended in the highs than the 2 newer ones that I've heard and its probably why I think it pairs well with some amps and not others.  When dealing with the Lyr2 you add the variable of the tubes used so I'd suggest that you ask what tubes were used if they aren't listed and FWIW getting in to a tube amp can be a large rabbit hole if you go crazy like I did when I first got the Lyr2, ended up spending about 3 times the price of the Lyr2 on tubes by my estimate.  Only positive is I can use them in my Ember, some of the better ones have really gone up in price (2-4 times more) and I probably have more than enough for my life time and will even leave a bunch for my son.


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## spanner43

thought i would chime in. I have the 400i which i liked but always found myself going for my  sen 650s until i added the loki mini. now i almost always go for my 400i. my desktop set up is: foobar, modi 2, loki mini, magni 3. I really like this schiit stack, and i find it so simple to adjust the loki to my ears for different headphones.


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## 441879

spanner43 said:


> thought i would chime in. I have the 400i which i liked but always found myself going for my  sen 650s until i added the loki mini. now i almost always go for my 400i. my desktop set up is: foobar, modi 2, loki mini, magni 3. I really like this schiit stack, and i find it so simple to adjust the loki to my ears for different headphones.



Didn’t realize Schiit made a decent equalizer at a reasonable price. Might be a better way for me to go if I decide I want to tweak the sound profiles of my phones. Thanks for the heads up!


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## sennsay

spanner43 said:


> thought i would chime in. I have the 400i which i liked but always found myself going for my  sen 650s until i added the loki mini. now i almost always go for my 400i. my desktop set up is: foobar, modi 2, loki mini, magni 3. I really like this schiit stack, and i find it so simple to adjust the loki to my ears for different headphones.


That makes a lot of sense. Now there is a way to use the same gear with different headphone balances, glad to hear it


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## sennsay (Mar 9, 2018)

sennsay said:


> That makes a lot of sense. Now there is a way to use the same gear with different headphone balances, glad to hear it


I've just received my notice from Massdrop that my new HD6XX are already on their way, two weeks early, good news! I decided to listen to some music to celebrate, Larry Carlton and Robben Ford Live In Tokyo, an otherwise brilliantly recorded album (there are some strange goings on with the top end and applause is just downright weird!) with stunning bass quality. Just for a change, after the Loki discussion, I decided on the little used (now) Sony MDR-1R headphones, normally not a patch on the Senn HD540 Ref1s for balance and 3D depth and width. However, they _*do*_ communicate rather well - otherwise they wouldn't last long in my inventory! - so I'm actually quite enjoying them for a change, despite the lack of really deep bass and slightly elevated mids, too forward for me long term, it's out of balance with the rest of the range. Mid bass in tight though and a must on this album! The top end is fairly detailed and what I'm getting at here is that a Loki would be ideal to make a few balancing corrections, because generally the Sony's do plenty of things right, certainly as far as timing and rhythm goes. With the Mimby and Magni 3 together, this is by far the best they have ever sounded! I'm keen to get some Mogami W2893 cable again and make a better headphone cable for the Sony's, I feel they deserve it. I remember going to the store several times and comparing them with the likes of other Sony models, Beats and Sennheiser models from the Momentum over ears to HD598s etc and preferring the Sony MDR-1Rs for simply just playing music with communicative feel. They're still doing just that right now. Magni 3 on low gain and volume set around 11pm, plenty loud enough! 
It's an extraordinary thing though, going back over the last track with the Ref1s. Now I'm ON stage with the musicians, everything is upscaled in size and dimensions front, back and sideways, instrument solidity and weight and the rhythmic involvment kicks up a few extra degrees and immediately involves the whole body. It's like going from a recording to the live event. The Ref1s do it very single time and the Magni 3 just upscales the action to suit.


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## DavidA

@sennsay, when you find a good jack for the MDR-1R let me know where to get it since I've built a Mogami cable for my MDR-1A but the 3.5mm jack from double-helix is a little microphonic so I've been looking for a new one.  Did you mod your MDR-1R?
All the talk of the Loki with the M3 is interesting but due to logistics of my current setup it would be a PITA to keep moving the Loki to different amps.


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## sennsay

DavidA said:


> @sennsay, when you find a good jack for the MDR-1R let me know where to get it since I've built a Mogami cable for my MDR-1A but the 3.5mm jack from double-helix is a little microphonic so I've been looking for a new one.  Did you mod your MDR-1R?
> All the talk of the Loki with the M3 is interesting but due to logistics of my current setup it would be a PITA to keep moving the Loki to different amps.


Haven't modded the MDR-1R at all ... yet, anyway  A good selection of pads would be nice, but most I've seen just look very similar to stock. Will do, re the mini jack. I tend to just get my jacks locally from the Jaycar stockist, but now that you mention it, will take a look around the various eBay sites too. Which Mogami cable did you use? I use the W2893 for both my Denons and the Ref1s, that's the Mini Quad microphone cable, anything larger could be a right pain to use.


----------



## sennsay

sennsay said:


> Haven't modded the MDR-1R at all ... yet, anyway  A good selection of pads would be nice, but most I've seen just look very similar to stock. Will do, re the mini jack. I tend to just get my jacks locally from the Jaycar stockist, but now that you mention it, will take a look around the various eBay sites too. Which Mogami cable did you use? I use the W2893 for both my Denons and the Ref1s, that's the Mini Quad microphone cable, anything larger could be a right pain to use.


Actually, just looking at the MDR-1Rs, I have noticed an almost complete lack of inner dampening over the drivers, unlike almost all other headphones I know of. So, maybe there's something to look at that might tame the forward mids and just smooth the treble a notch, not that it's bad, again just a bit too forward, lacking depth perspective. I shall play around. That's something that's easy to reverse if there's no joy. I suspect there might be something in it though. Getting the right jack will be crucial, as it is a bit inset into the female half.


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## DavidA

Using the W2893 for its size and I like that it has 4 colors so its easy to figure out which is which.  As for the 3.5mm jack for the MDR-1R you should check the collar/step-down ring to see that it fits, this is where it got hard to find something that fits.


----------



## sennsay

DavidA said:


> Using the W2893 for its size and I like that it has 4 colors so its easy to figure out which is which.  As for the 3.5mm jack for the MDR-1R you should check the collar/step-down ring to see that it fits, this is where it got hard to find something that fits.


Yes, right on, it is indeed. Quite a lot of nice jacks are coming out with shaped shoulders now, so that they fit nicely into many DAPs, my QP1R included.


----------



## sennsay

sennsay said:


> Actually, just looking at the MDR-1Rs, I have noticed an almost complete lack of inner dampening over the drivers, unlike almost all other headphones I know of. So, maybe there's something to look at that might tame the forward mids and just smooth the treble a notch, not that it's bad, again just a bit too forward, lacking depth perspective. I shall play around. That's something that's easy to reverse if there's no joy. I suspect there might be something in it though. Getting the right jack will be crucial, as it is a bit inset into the female half.


Maybe these might do the trick, a little bit of cutting down and Bob might be might uncle. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1Pair-I...8-Headphone-/111803688283?_trksid=p5731.m3795


----------



## NorCal

spanner43 said:


> thought i would chime in. I have the 400i which i liked but always found myself going for my  sen 650s until i added the loki mini. now i almost always go for my 400i. my desktop set up is: foobar, modi 2, loki mini, magni 3. I really like this schiit stack, and i find it so simple to adjust the loki to my ears for different headphones.



I've been biased against tone controls for years, due to the audio rags, (so usually using the tone control bypass).  Even the tone controls of my of my NAD C326BEE integrated amp, can actually improve the balance on most material, but I still find myself engaging the bypass 95% of the time, (due to my indoctrination against them).

However, I think that the Loki is going to be added to the stack I'm assembling. Ordered the magni 3yesterday, and the Loki seems like a worthwhile addition at its low price, and sounds like extremely high quality, (from the description). From all of what I've read on here, the Loki may make the largest difference of any component, except for the headphones themselves.


----------



## Tuneslover

NorCal said:


> I've been biased against tone controls for years, due to the audio rags, (so usually using the tone control bypass).  Even the tone controls of my of my NAD C326BEE integrated amp, can actually improve the balance on most material, but I still find myself engaging the bypass 95% of the time, (due to my indoctrination against them).
> 
> However, I think that the Loki is going to be added to the stack I'm assembling. Ordered the magni 3yesterday, and the Loki seems like a worthwhile addition at its low price, and sounds like extremely high quality, (from the description). From all of what I've read on here, the Loki may make the largest difference of any component, except for the headphones themselves.



Coincidentally I have a Loki on my 2 channel speaker system driven by a NAD C326BEE integrated amp.  I had the same indoctrination of not using the tone controls but found that they actually helped smooth out the high end intensity and beef up the bottom end.  Once the Loki was introduced I set the NAD's tone controls to neutral and used the Loki instead.  With the 4 band adjustment on the Loki I have been able to fine tune the speaker sound much more precisely and effectively.  I'm very happy with how the Loki has improved the sound in this setup.

As an added benefit I also have one of my headphone amps installed there (Lake People G109S) and find that the Loki comes in handy to fine tune the sound of my headphones.  The Loki is simply a great addition to my setup.


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## timb5881

Any opinions on the Magni 3 compared to the vali 2?   Both look very good.  Most of my headphones are 50ohms or less, and both can do 16 ohm headphones.   What I am wondering is if the vali 2 has any coloration (besides rolling tubes) that is different than the mafni 3, and if there is any frequency differences ( bass impact brightness etc).


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## timb5881

Back in he day, tones controls often caused a diffuse impact on sound quality.   Then again many, if not all on analog pre and integrated amps used less than stellar circuit in them, hence they usually had a bypass in them.   I remember a Pioneer receiver I had a bypass mode, and it sounded like a veil was lifted in front of the speakers when the tone controls were bypassed..


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## bixby

timb5881 said:


> Any opinions on the Magni 3 compared to the vali 2?   Both look very good.  Most of my headphones are 50ohms or less, and both can do 16 ohm headphones.   What I am wondering is if the vali 2 has any coloration (besides rolling tubes) that is different than the mafni 3, and if there is any frequency differences ( bass impact brightness etc).


I had the Vali 2 head to head with the Magni 3 with Senn 600s.  Vali 2 is nice, softer in bass, not as deep, more veiled in the mids, and less clear highs than Magni 3.  Sold it within a week.  I feel the Magni 3 is the less colored of the two and a downright bargain at the price.


----------



## timb5881

bixby said:


> I had the Vali 2 head to head with the Magni 3 with Senn 600s.  Vali 2 is nice, softer in bass, not as deep, more veiled in the mids, and less clear highs than Magni 3.  Sold it within a week.  I feel the Magni 3 is the less colored of the two and a downright bargain at the price.


Thanks, that is the info I needed on the 2 amps.


----------



## Renato Fury

Is it true that Modi Multibit does not play songs over 16 bits ?


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## NorCal (Mar 11, 2018)

Renato Fury said:


> Is it true that Modi Multibit does not play songs over 16 bits ?


Schiit's web page states:
*Modi 2 Multibit: *16/44.1 to 24/192 via USB. 16/44.1 to 24/192 via Toslink*** and Coax, with 24/176 and 24/192 being NOS (non-oversampled)
*Note: many optical transmitters cannot output 24/176 and 24/192 reliably


----------



## Renato Fury

NorCal said:


> Schiit's web page states:
> *Modi 2 Multibit: *16/44.1 to 24/192 via USB. 16/44.1 to 24/192 via Toslink*** and Coax, with 24/176 and 24/192 being NOS (non-oversampled)
> *Note: many optical transmitters cannot output 24/176 and 24/192 reliably


Yes I had read this on the site, but a member of the site said that Mimby cuts files from 24 to 16 bits, hence the doubt.


----------



## NorCal

Renato Fury said:


> Yes I had read this on the site, but a member of the site said that Mimby cuts files from 24 to 16 bits, hence the doubt.


Here's something Schiit explains on their FAQ for the Bimby, (the multi bit bifrost):

*I can’t get over the fact that Bifrost Multibit is only 16 bits!*
You didn’t have any problem with delta-sigma being 2 to 5 bits, did you?
*But, 16 bits!*
Yeah, and most music is still 16 bits—99.9%+, in fact. 

*But what happens when I use 24 bit music?*
We transform it to 16 bit, and it plays just fine. Just like the 2- to 5-bit delta-sigma DACs do. Except with a lot more bits.

Sounds reasonable to me.


----------



## Renato Fury

NorCal said:


> Here's something Schiit explains on their FAQ for the Bimby, (the multi bit bifrost):
> 
> *I can’t get over the fact that Bifrost Multibit is only 16 bits!*
> You didn’t have any problem with delta-sigma being 2 to 5 bits, did you?
> ...


Okay, but what about KHZ, are they also changed?


----------



## NorCal

Renato Fury said:


> Okay, but what about KHZ, are they also changed?


kilohertz? frequency response? I would not think so. 
Their site states, [for the Mimby]: *Frequency Response: *20Hz-20KHz, +/-0.1dB [which is very flat, and extended beyond the hearing capabilities of most adults].


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## Renato Fury

NorCal said:


> kilohertz? frequency response? I would not think so.
> Their site states, [for the Mimby]: *Frequency Response: *20Hz-20KHz, +/-0.1dB [which is very flat, and extended beyond the hearing capabilities of most adults].


All right, thanks for the help.


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## ostewart

quimbo said:


> Actually thats a picture of my setup I took.  Rack (I ordered 2) can be found here
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...e-rack-transparent-equipment/32788148827.html


 
Gone from posting about gear he has never heard, to stealing pictures now...


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## quimbo

ostewart said:


> Gone from posting about gear he has never heard, to stealing pictures now...



I was asked to provide the photo, they forgot to attribute it to me


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## ostewart

quimbo said:


> I was asked to provide the photo, they forgot to attribute it to me



That's alright then  sorry he is a serial poster of opinions formed on others opinions... Having never heard personally the items he recommends.


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## RiflemanFirst

I ordered my Magni 3 shortly after release and noticed that it has developed a bit of noise in the volume pot over the past couple weeks when adjusting. I can make it go away temporarily by exercising the pot up and down a few times quickly. While mostly a non-issue I figured it was worth pointing out since this wasn't happening when it was new. Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## KaiFi

I notice it too. It doesn't seem to be a real problem, but I do notice the noise when adjusting the volume and I swore I did not notice it when I first got it.


----------



## ScOgLiO

Mine still works like a charm, but it's only a few months old


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## bboris77

RiflemanFirst said:


> I ordered my Magni 3 shortly after release and noticed that it has developed a bit of noise in the volume pot over the past couple weeks when adjusting. I can make it go away temporarily by exercising the pot up and down a few times quickly. While mostly a non-issue I figured it was worth pointing out since this wasn't happening when it was new. Anyone else experiencing this?



I had two Magni 3 amps with exactly that exhibited the same behaviour. It really is a non-issue though as it mostly does it when you adjust the volume with nothing playing. There is no way that it has anything to do with the potentiometer itself as these are all brand new pots. I would not try to lubricate it. It must be some kind of side effect of the topology used. At this price point, it is a compromise that can be tolerated.


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## SomeTechNoob

Schiit Fulla 2 has the same issue.  Some electrical contact cleaner usually fixes things.


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## BubbaJay (Mar 14, 2018)

Last night I started to hear a low hum coming from my M3 which I thought might be something wrong with it because it was only on high gain, which is all I use.  Then I thought it was some kind of interference because it just happened so suddenly and thankfully that's all it was.  It was something coming from my surge protector because when I plugged my Mimby and M3 into a different socket all was well.

I'm so very pleased with the performance level of this amp and still can't get over the fact it's only $99.  All my headphone sound better than they did with the Magni 2 and original Vali.  The Focal Elear sounded great before but now the sound stunning, and my Nighthawk aren't far behind.  I feel like I'm getting the full potential out of my headphones and my Modi Multibit.  Schiit has the best price-performance ratio with their products imo and I'm going to be a customer for life.


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## mnp75

Oh man, it sure has felt like the Magni3 is made of unobtanium – been so difficult to get one here in the Europe! Change my mind from Objective2 to Magni3 around New Years after reading some of the rave reviews, but then Schiit had some production difficulties in the beginning of the year, and once those were resolved for the US for quite a while already, neither of the EU stores had stuff in stock for months (or even dates for availability). Finally about 3 months after making my decision, was able to order Magni3 from Schiit-Europe end of last week, and now the packege is on it's way to Finland! (And the stock is already out now, so guess they didn't get that many units even at this point…)

Can't wait to hear how it sounds with Hifiman HE-400s, been driving those thus far with just the "Altoids" amp from JDSLabs and direct connections from devices. Also purchased SMSL Sanskrit 6 as a DAC for desktop use (my main listening station already has Cambridge Audio's DAC Magic), felt the standard iMac output was lacking on clarity which I doubt the amp in itself would've not been able to solve. Guess I still need to manage one more weekend without the new toys though…!


----------



## 441879

mnp75 said:


> Oh man, it sure has felt like the Magni3 is made of unobtanium – been so difficult to get one here in the Europe! Change my mind from Objective2 to Magni3 around New Years after reading some of the rave reviews, but then Schiit had some production difficulties in the beginning of the year, and once those were resolved for the US for quite a while already, neither of the EU stores had stuff in stock for months (or even dates for availability). Finally about 3 months after making my decision, was able to order Magni3 from Schiit-Europe end of last week, and now the packege is on it's way to Finland! (And the stock is already out now, so guess they didn't get that many units even at this point…)
> 
> Can't wait to hear how it sounds with Hifiman HE-400s, been driving those thus far with just the "Altoids" amp from JDSLabs and direct connections from devices. Also purchased SMSL Sanskrit 6 as a DAC for desktop use (my main listening station already has Cambridge Audio's DAC Magic), felt the standard iMac output was lacking on clarity which I doubt the amp in itself would've not been able to solve. Guess I still need to manage one more weekend without the new toys though…!



Glad it’s finally on the way. It certainly out performs my old Bit-Head amp with my 400i


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## erich6

spanner43 said:


> thought i would chime in. I have the 400i which i liked but always found myself going for my  sen 650s until i added the loki mini. now i almost always go for my 400i. my desktop set up is: foobar, modi 2, loki mini, magni 3. I really like this schiit stack, and i find it so simple to adjust the loki to my ears for different headphones.



Nice Foobar skin...how did you get that setup?


----------



## spanner43

erich6 said:


> Nice Foobar skin...how did you get that setup?


Thank You. I am not sure, it just developed over a few years. Foobar has tons of options and at first it seemed like far to many to deal with, but now i love it. you just decide what elements you want to show and create a layout in view/scratchbox. then you just add the elements you want: album art, playlists, meta data, and visualizations. if there is something you want chances are some one has already made it available to download and add.


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## NorCal (Mar 20, 2018)

Finished a 24/7 burn in on my new Magni 3. Sound seemed a bit grainy for the first minute or two, but after that, very clean, and didn't notice any more change. Could have been the media.

But this weekend I was listening to a WAV file of Lindsey Stirling's "Electric Daisy Violin", and there's a lot of glare, which seems like its from synthesized drums. I plugged my HPs into my Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus' jack, [it is being used in DAC mode with its preamp disabled, but the volume still works for its HP jack]. The DM+ emphasized this presumed recording issue, much more. I then tried the original CD, and it sounded just like the WAV file. Went to YouTube and found the song. It exhibited much less of this, but I could still hear it. Remember though, this isn't a Magni 3 issue. Garbage in = garbage out. Point being it seems to emphasize the glare less than the DM+'s HP amp.

So, I want to get the Schiit Loki equalizer, to deal with these types of media issues. But, maybe wait for the rumored Bimby form factor, because I don't really like how small the Loki and Magni 3 are. Sounds like a full sized audio component, even though it looks tiny ... like a couple of packs of Camel non filters laying next to each other, but another 25% taller. Anyway, I really like the sound of this amp. Amazing bass with content that has it.

My other complaint, (other than the size), is that there is only a half an inch of room between the volume control and my HP plug, which is really annoying. I cannot reach the volume control knob with a thumb on top, and a straight in approach. Instead, I have to approach it at maybe a 45 degree angle from the left, and my finger still bumps the HP plug. If there was 1/2" more room, it would be a major improvement, IMO.

Positives of the Magni 3 are substantial. The most important of course is that it sounds really amazingly great. It runs somewhere between lukewarm and warm. [Since I'm using this on my nightstand, it won't keep me awake on hot summer nights]. Also, it's dead quite with no input signal and maximum volume, for both low and high gain. Subjectively, (with music), the L & R channels track each other perfectly, for both the high and low gain, (from fully minimum to maximum), and without any noise. It can also function as a SE preamp, but I haven't tried this feature. Low weight/shipping, so it could be returned during the trial for a lot less than say a Mjolnir 2.

After using it for a week, I will definitely be keeping it.


----------



## quimbo

Observation, not a complaint.  Been using the Magni 3 at work for a few months now playing thru Creative T40s series II.  The way they are set up I have great separation and stereo sound.  A few weeks ago I got some Sennheiser HD540s and started using them at work.  When I would pull out the headphones and dial the volume up to full the sound was right-side dominant and the balance was gone.   It turns out I switched to high gain at some point.  When I turn off high gain the balanced sound through the speakers is back.  I can go from high to low and back multiple times and the balance seems to stay.  Once I plug in the headphones, switch to high and then pull them out, the sound is right-side dominant again.


----------



## sennsay

quimbo said:


> Observation, not a complaint.  Been using the Magni 3 at work for a few months now playing thru Creative T40s series II.  The way they are set up I have great separation and stereo sound.  A few weeks ago I got some Sennheiser HD540s and started using them at work.  When I would pull out the headphones and dial the volume up to full the sound was right-side dominant and the balance was gone.   It turns out I switched to high gain at some point.  When I turn off high gain the balanced sound through the speakers is back.  I can go from high to low and back multiple times and the balance seems to stay.  Once I plug in the headphones, switch to high and then pull them out, the sound is right-side dominant again.


Oh that's just weird! Never heard that one before, quimbo   What the ... ! Had a chat to Schiit, at all?


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## mnp75 (Mar 21, 2018)

mnp75 said:


> Oh man, it sure has felt like the Magni3 is made of unobtanium – been so difficult to get one here in the Europe! […] Finally about 3 months after making my decision, was able to order Magni3 from Schiit-Europe end of last week, and now the packege is on it's way to Finland! (And the stock is already out now, so guess they didn't get that many units even at this point…)
> 
> Can't wait to hear how it sounds with Hifiman HE-400s, been driving those thus far with just the "Altoids" amp from JDSLabs and direct connections from devices. Also purchased SMSL Sanskrit 6 as a DAC for desktop use (my main listening station already has Cambridge Audio's DAC Magic), felt the standard iMac output was lacking on clarity which I doubt the amp in itself would've not been able to solve. Guess I still need to manage one more weekend without the new toys though…!



Today was finally the day – and man, my desktop setup has never sounded this good! Haven't yet listened to Magni3 on my main listening station with DAC Magic et al so can't really do comparisons just for the amp, but at least this Sanskrit6+Magni3 -combo really whips the llama's ass compared to just plugging Hifiman HE-400s to the iMac built-in output! Loads of additional clarity & extension. To be honest, music now sounds even a bit too gripping & involving for work context – hard to focus on working when you start to listen to the music in detail 

btw, which gain settings are you guys using with HE-400s? I started with LO which gives a better range in the volume control allowing more fine-tuned control, but have to say that somehow HI would seem to sound a bit better, a bit more bite maybe? Not sure if that's just due to possibly driving the headphones at higher volume unintentionally due to smaller scale of usable volume settings…?


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## NorCal (Mar 21, 2018)

mnp75 said:


> Today was finally the day – and man, my desktop setup has never sounded this good! Haven't yet listened to Magni3 on my main listening station with DAC Magic et al so can't really do comparisons just for the amp, but at least this Sanskrit6+Magni3 -combo really whips the llama's ass compared to just plugging Hifiman HE-400s to the iMac built-in output! Loads of additional clarity & extension. To be honest, music now sounds even a bit too gripping & involving for work context – hard to focus on working when you start to listen to the music in detail
> 
> btw, which gain settings are you guys using with HE-400s? I started with LO which gives a better range in the volume control allowing more fine-tuned control, but have to say that somehow HI would seem to sound a bit better, a bit more bite maybe? Not sure if that's just due to possibly driving the headphones at higher volume unintentionally due to smaller scale of usable volume settings…?


Didn't notice you asked specifically about HE-400's. My HPs are HD-650's, but anyway ...

Mostly been using low gain, for greater range on the volume control. I get the same impression when switching to high gain, even when I turn down the Foobar2000's volume first. By keeping it down, the volume control of the M3 has a much larger range of use in high gain mode. However, one needs to make sure other sources, like for my case, the laptop's volume is also turned down, like for YouTube, and even system alerts. I just had a pretty loud alert when a window popped up asking me about sticky keys.


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## mnp75

mnp75 said:


> btw, which gain settings are you guys using with HE-400s? I started with LO which gives a better range in the volume control allowing more fine-tuned control, but have to say that somehow HI would seem to sound a bit better, a bit more bite maybe? Not sure if that's just due to possibly driving the headphones at higher volume unintentionally due to smaller scale of usable volume settings…?



Just realized that this naturally depends also on what you have behind Magni… apparently my desktop DAC, Sanskrit6, puts out more power than Cambridge Audio DACMagic on my main listening station: need to turn the volume on Magni way more up (around 50% compared to 25% on desktop) even on HI gain with DACMagic. LO gain with DACMagic is not really an option, would need to turn the volume all the way near max. Hadn't previously realized the differences might be this substantial on the line-level outputs, interesting.


----------



## sennsay

My new HD6XX arrived on my doorstep at lunchtime today. The Schiit stack of Magni 3/Mimby was already well warmed up beforehand, so it was just a matter of firing up the Questyle QP1R as a source (optical out) to the Mimby and we were up and running. 

Even brand new, they have surprised me with the Magni 3! What an excellent combo! That slightly over-warm bass and laid back mids from what I recall of my old HD650s has gone, the bass is remarkably open, taut and even and vocals are explicit, especially after several hours of warm up time this afternoon while I was out doing other things. Even better with the addition my Mogami 2893 cable, from the much loved Senn HD540 Ref1s. The stock cables - admittedly not run in at all - were a bit lean and lacking in bass weight and somewhat dry in communication. As soon as the Mogami cable was jacked in, the whole soundstage expanded not only in size but also frequency extension, the bass filling out beautifully. Even better, was a whole new level of instant communication, from just listening to the sound with the stock cable, to being instantly involved, my body immediately picking up the beat, moving from listening as an observer to being lost in the music. It's what the Ref1s do so deliciously well! 

 I'm already enjoying these HD6XX more than I expected, now they really _are_ a bargain! What fun, another great set of cans with a slightly different flavour to play with the Schiit stack. Could be a good night, I reckon


----------



## erich6

mnp75 said:


> Just realized that this naturally depends also on what you have behind Magni… apparently my desktop DAC, Sanskrit6, puts out more power than Cambridge Audio DACMagic on my main listening station: need to turn the volume on Magni way more up (around 50% compared to 25% on desktop) even on HI gain with DACMagic. LO gain with DACMagic is not really an option, would need to turn the volume all the way near max. Hadn't previously realized the differences might be this substantial on the line-level outputs, interesting.



Magni 3 really needs 2V input from DAC otherwise it won't perform well.


----------



## NorCal (Mar 23, 2018)

erich6 said:


> Magni 3 really needs 2V input from DAC otherwise it won't perform well.


Both the DacMagic and DacMagic Plus's specs claim a SE output of 2.1V, and less than 50 ohms output impedance.


----------



## sennsay

My experience is that unless you're so strapped for cash that you've got few quality options at a really low price, suck it up if you can and go for the Mimby! The extra few $$$ is worth it, because this DAC will become better and better as you upgrade the source and cables around it. I use $400+ pure silver cables between my Mimby and Magni 3 and the results speak for themselves ...... or sing for themselves ... I've used them for years in my main systems and have now been usurped for a greater life purpose  The M3 is outstanding value (NOT just for the price, either!) and combined with the Mimby I am continually astonished at the level of incredibly enjoyable music that pours forth from my Schiit stack/QP1R source. It's a brilliant combo with my new HD6XX as well! They sound much better than I remember of my older HD650s, no lumpy over-warm bass and certainly no 'midrange veil'! These things are remarkably detailed, focused, tuneful and not at all 'slow' as seems to be the case with some gear. The Magni 3 drives them very well indeed, with excellent bass control, even though they're only two days old at this stage  They are not as supremely open as my HD540 Ref1s, yet paint a more finely detailed sonic picture. They may open up some more yet, they've only got about 14 hours on them so far. Also, they have responded magnificently to the Mogami cable! Extending the bass and opening up the top end a little too, as if they've given the frequency response a gentle stretch and flattening it out a little.


----------



## KaiFi

erich6 said:


> Magni 3 really needs 2V input from DAC otherwise it won't perform well.



So the Modi 2U has only 1.5V output, does that mean it's not ideal for the M3?


----------



## NorCal (Mar 23, 2018)

sennsay said:


> go for the Mimby! The extra few $$$ is worth it, because this DAC will become better and better as you upgrade the source and cables around it.


I haven't tried the Mimby, but did audition the Yggy for 2 weeks, (and ran it with music the entire time). My main listening comparison was against a Cambridge CD player. Although it sounded spectacular, (mostly coaxial), it didn't sound any better than the CD player's DAC to me. [BTW, I had the ability to_ instantly_ A/B between the CD player's DAC and the Yggy's, which I did thousands of times].

Therefore, I sent the Yggy back, (sort of tough since it weighs 25 lbs, (as for shipping costs), and 5% restocking on $2400, so it didn't make it an easy decision ... would have been easier to say, "way better", but it wasn't). [I realize this might be due to my hearing, or even the other components]. So I bought a stand alone DAC/HP amp from Cambridge that uses the same dual Wolfson WM8740 24bit DACs as my CD player, but with their ATF2TM ...
"The DacMagic Plus features ATF2TM (2nd Adaptive Time Filtering), an up-sampling process developed
in conjunction with Anagram Technologies of Switzerland to intelligently interpolate incoming audio
data to 24-bit/384kHz through the use of a 32-bit Analog Devices DSP (Digital Signal Processor).
The ATF2 system applies sophisticated polynomial curve-fitting interpolation and incorporates a
time domain model which adaptively generates the new data in the temporal domain, dramatically
reducing digital jitter.
Our latest version of this algorithm now supports noise shaped data scrambling for enhanced
linearity with 24-bit content."​Anyway
I do feel the Magni 3 amp sounds better, [less HF glare], than the DacMagic Plus amp, at least with my HD-650 HPs. Maybe some HPs would be a great match for the DM+, IDK.


----------



## sennsay

NorCal said:


> I haven't tried the Mimby, but did audition the Yggy for 2 weeks, (and ran it with music the entire time). My main listening comparison was against a Cambridge CD player. Although it sounded spectacular, (mostly coaxial), it didn't sound any better than the CD player's DAC to me. [BTW, I had the ability to_ instantly_ A/B between the CD player's DAC and the Yggy's, which I did thousands of times].
> 
> Therefore, I sent the Yggy back, (sort of tough since it weighs 25 lbs, (as for shipping costs), and 15% restocking on $2400, so it didn't make it an easy decision ... would have been easier to say, "way better", but it wasn't). [I realize this might be due to my hearing, or even the other components]. So I bought a stand alone DAC/HP amp from Cambridge that uses the same dual Wolfson WM8740 24bit DACs as my CD player, but with their ATF2TM ...
> "The DacMagic Plus features ATF2TM (2nd Adaptive Time Filtering), an up-sampling process developed
> ...


Also, the Yggy takes a looong time to fully run in from new, up to a month for some delicate ears


----------



## NorCal (Mar 23, 2018)

sennsay said:


> Also, the Yggy takes a looong time to fully run in from new, up to a month for some delicate ears


Yep. But what someone from Schiit told a reviewer, 300 hours on the Yggy and Gumby, and half that on the MJ2 amp. I had ~ 350 hours, (with various CDs playing), on my Yggy and didn't have a choice due to their 15 day return policy.

I'm just saying when it comes to DACs, I feel that there are lots of options, and no clear superiority. With amps, IDK, but everyday I love my Magni 3 a little more. Starting to think it's an end game amp.

Obviously I'm still a Schiitaphile, and might have chosen a Mimby or Bimby, but since, at the time, I still had a back ordered Mjolnir 2 coming , I wanted a DAC with the balanced outputs. Like those of the DacMagic Plus, and to get balanced from Schiit, would have meant the Gumby @ $1249 for the multibit version. [That might be a great deal, but after the Yggy comparison, I didn't want to spend over $1K on a DAC].


----------



## NorCal

BTW, that's 5% restocking, not 15% ... sorry. And if I lived close to a Schiiter, it would be much cheaper to try/return a component. Seems like shipping has really gone up lately.


----------



## sennsay

NorCal said:


> Yep. But what someone from Schiit told a reviewer, 300 hours on the Yggy and Gumby, and half that on the MJ2 amp. I had ~ 350 hours, (with various CDs playing), on my Yggy and didn't have a choice due to their 15 day return policy.
> 
> I'm just saying when it comes to DACs, I feel that there are lots of options, and no clear superiority. With amps, IDK, but everyday I love my Magni 3 a little more. Starting to think it's an end game amp.


I'd have to agree with you, NorCal. Also in full agreement regarding the Magni 3! What a cracker of an amp it is. I have no desire to look or listen elsewhere, my little (literally!) Schiit stack stays put while I truly enjoy listening to music through it.


NorCal said:


> Yep. But what someone from Schiit told a reviewer, 300 hours on the Yggy and Gumby, and half that on the MJ2 amp. I had ~ 350 hours, (with various CDs playing), on my Yggy and didn't have a choice due to their 15 day return policy.
> 
> I'm just saying when it comes to DACs, I feel that there are lots of options, and no clear superiority. With amps, IDK, but everyday I love my Magni 3 a little more. Starting to think it's an end game amp.
> 
> Obviously I'm still a Schiitaphile, and might have chosen a Mimby or Bimby, but since, at the time, I still had a back ordered Mjolnir 2 coming , I wanted a DAC with the balanced outputs. Like those of the DacMagic Plus, and to get balanced from Schiit, would have meant the Gumby @ $1249 for the multibit version. [That might be a great deal, but after the Yggy comparison, I didn't want to spend over $1K on a DAC].


Mm, maybe the Yggy only shows it's best the more we upscale the amp. Everything in balance, then. I'll curb my desire for the Yggy for the time being  Gee, the Mimby has got to be right up there for DACs under a grand, eh? Certainly if one enjoys a truly natural and organic sound with a very even balance. Almost all of the Delta/Sigma DACs I've heard, other than some very exy ones, have an edge/grain/hyper-detail/leading edge led sig I don't enjoy any more. I used to, just as well there's plenty for everyone's taste


----------



## NorCal

sennsay said:


> I'd have to agree with you, NorCal. Also in full agreement regarding the Magni 3! What a cracker of an amp it is. I have no desire to look or listen elsewhere, my little (literally!) Schiit stack stays put while I truly enjoy listening to music through it.
> 
> Mm, maybe the Yggy only shows it's best the more we upscale the amp. Everything in balance, then. I'll curb my desire for the Yggy for the time being  Gee, the Mimby has got to be right up there for DACs under a grand, eh? Certainly if one enjoys a truly natural and organic sound with a very even balance. Almost all of the Delta/Sigma DACs I've heard, other than some very exy ones, have an edge/grain/hyper-detail/leading edge led sig I don't enjoy any more. I used to, just as well there's plenty for everyone's taste


That might be the case, and if I had been able to audition the Mjolnir 2 with the Yggy, perhaps it would've been clearly superior. And at some point, I might audition the pair together. 

Probably will get a Bimby and Lry3 at some point, but for now, I'm simply amazed at how good the current setup sounds.


----------



## sennsay

Yes, for many folks, it really could be an end game amp, just as Jason has suggested.


----------



## mnp75

NorCal said:


> However, one needs to make sure other sources, like for my case, the laptop's volume is also turned down, like for YouTube, and even system alerts. I just had a pretty loud alert when a window popped up asking me about sticky keys.



Yeah that can truly bring a "nice" jolt to the listening experience.  But luckily at least on Macs you can keep the default sounds sent to e.g. laptop speakers and then in music apps like Tidal decide to send the music e.g. to your external DAC instead. So you get the music and nothing but the music in your headphones. Saves the day with those notification sounds.


----------



## mnp75

NorCal said:


> Both the DacMagic and DacMagic Plus's specs claim a SE output of 2.1V, and less than 50 ohms output impedance.



And Sanskrit 6 outputs 2.0V, so that actually can't be the reason I'm noticing major differences in volume between the two on Magni3. Interesting, must then be due to some other elements along the signal path. Sanskrit is connected directly to iMac via USB, but DacMagic has much longer path of iPad–AirPlay–AppleTV–optical–DacMagic (and then also a switch before Magni). Well, Magni3 sounds great on both, and that's the important thing!


----------



## ScOgLiO

mnp75 said:


> Yeah that can truly bring a "nice" jolt to the listening experience.  But luckily at least on Macs you can keep the default sounds sent to e.g. laptop speakers and then in music apps like Tidal decide to send the music e.g. to your external DAC instead. So you get the music and nothing but the music in your headphones. Saves the day with those notification sounds.



You can do that on Windows as well, setting Wasapi or ASIO as output on a multimedia player's preferences. That also allows for bitperfect output, so it's a no-brainer for me.

By the way, I agree with most of the recent comments, I also happen to have a Mimby/Magni 3 stack and it's pretty amazing. At least for a while, really no impulse on upgrading as I feel we have some great Schiit in our hands 

I'm on the HD600s side and caught a significant improvement in many aspects when getting the M3 first and the Mimby later


----------



## rids57

I do the same in Windows 10, have my sound card set as default (connected to speakers) and have my Mimby selected in JRiver.


----------



## NorCal

With my setup, using a Win 7 pro laptop, running foobar2000, using WASAPI USB audio, or ASIO, the foobar2000's volume bypasses the Windows volume, except for system sounds, and things like Youtube. Even with the Windows volume muted, foobar2000, still plays as normal.

I would prefer if YouTube also went through foobar2000, but it doesn't, at least the way I have it setup. 

Anyway I disabled the system sounds, and no more jolts.


----------



## iamjaymo (Mar 24, 2018)

Just picked up one of these little guys, mostly to "see how good a $99 amp could possibly be..." and I've been listening most of the afternoon.  I admit it...I am impressed, it sounds great.  I agree with some of the previous posters regarding the warm sound of the amp.  Maybe not the last word in resolution but absolutely enjoyable.

Running it through my Audio-GD R2R's DAC and the sound coming through my TH-X00 Ebony is very nice indeed.  I haven't compared the head amp in the AGD to the Magni but I can't say I'm missing anything listening to some Angus and Julia Stone that's for sure.  Just listening to the music without thinking about the amp and enjoying it.

This is my first Schiit amp and I'm liking it quite a bit.

UPDATE: I may have to spring for the Mimby now...


----------



## Rensek

I finally received my hd6xx's to pair with the M3 I bought end of December. The m3 and HD6xx sound fantastic together. Using an iPad air 2 and Spotify premium as source/material. Everything sounds awesome. Good bass/mids/treble. Nice layering. Nothing sounds overpowering or out of sync. No "veil". Going to get a Mimby soon.


----------



## sennsay (Mar 25, 2018)

iamjaymo said:


> Just picked up one of these little guys, mostly to "see how good a $99 amp could possibly be..." and I've been listening most of the afternoon.  I admit it...I am impressed, it sounds great.  I agree with some of the previous posters regarding the warm sound of the amp.  Maybe not the last word in resolution but absolutely enjoyable.
> 
> Running it through my Audio-GD R2R's DAC and the sound coming through my TH-X00 Ebony is very nice indeed.  I haven't compared the head amp in the AGD to the Magni but I can't say I'm missing anything listening to some Angus and Julia Stone that's for sure.  Just listening to the music without thinking about the amp and enjoying it.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'd be interested on your impressions between the two R2R DACs. I was thinking of buying an audio-gd R2R DAC for my lounge system. I really enjoy my Mimby for Head-FI! The new HD6XX are also going very well with the Schiit stack, better with the Mogami cable though. The stock cable's ok, but will accentuate any 'hot' recordings or even those just a little hard and forward and/or thin sounding. The Mogami widens the soundstage and extends the bass, while keeping it flat, midrange is more natural. Still, for much of my listening, I often go back to my 29 year old Senn HD540 Ref1s, they've just got an effortless naturalness that evades everything else I have, despite not having the very top end extension of the HD6XX, or their finer detailing. Bass is also slightly fuller, deeper and more organic than the HD6XX ...... though I'm still glad I bought them (the HD6XX, that is)  They are an astonishing bargain!


----------



## Renato Fury

*iamjaymo *I'm also interested in seeing a comparison between Magni 3 and R2R 11 if possible.


----------



## inmytaxi

Renato Fury said:


>


I can't see what you're using for coax from the the Eitr to Modi?


----------



## iamjaymo (Mar 25, 2018)

Renato Fury said:


> *iamjaymo *I'm also interested in seeing a comparison between Magni 3 and R2R 11 if possible.



I’m not really a big reviewer of gear and my intention was just to listen to the Magni and see how I liked it… but curiosity did get the better of me and I ended up comparing the R2R 11 and the Magni quite a bit last night.

Disclaimer: I am not big user of audiophile language…you’re not going to get “…leading edges of notes” or “transient response” or any of that stuff.  I either like it or I don’t - I know what I am looking for and it’s totally subjective but I know it when I hear it.  I believe there are subtle differences in the sound of amps, less so in DACs, and definitely in headphones.  I can hear the differences in sound so I’m not one of those who say all amps sound the same; I just don’t think it’s that dramatic.

Ok, enough of that.  The Magni arrived at about 11:30am yesterday, I plugged it in, hooked it up to the R2R's DAC, turned it on and let it sit for about 3 hours.  I’m not a huge believer in amps changing dramatically from break-in but… that was my break-in period.

I listened for a total of about 10 hours, directly comparing the R2R and the Magni for the last 3 hours and came away quite impressed with the Magni.  The only headphone I had on hand was the Fostex TH-X00 Ebony and I just tried my best to level match and unplug and plug in as fast as I could (very technical).

My conclusion: the Magni is pretty damn good - perhaps a tad more detailed than the R2R but perhaps a bit more rough around the edges also.  I felt it was slightly warm sounding but not as much as a tube amp of course.  In the end, I felt the R2R was the better sound for my tastes (I don’t like bright or dry or dull; I like it slightly liquid and dynamic).  The two amps were closer than I would have ever thought.

The R2R was a bit smoother sounding to my ears.  I really had to listen carefully and my conclusion was more of an overall feeling after all listening was done.  It was really close and since the Magni is about $300 cheaper than the R2R after international shipping I conclude the Magni is the better value.

Bass on both amps was great, couldn’t tell much difference and neither amp had dull or flat sounding bass at all.  It was full, deep and sounded very nice.

Mids I felt were a bit better on the R2R. Directly A/Bing listening to a DSD recording of Thriller, I felt vocals were a bit farther back in the Magni than the R2R. It’s slight, didn’t really affect my enjoyment of the recording, but it was different. If you listened without comparison it would’t affect the musical enjoyment.

Treble was good on both, not glaring or piercing, and everything was there with enough clarity and detail to make the music enjoyable.

The R2R is on the darker side of sound signature as compared to other Schiit amps I have heard (Jot, Asgard, Lyr) and the Magni didn’t really sound exactly like those other Schiit amps (totally from memory so that comment could be faulty).  To note: I did listen, for about an hour, to the Jotunheim day before yesterday on a buddy's rig with the Ebony's.

One thing I didn’t like about the Magni is the fact it uses a giant wall wart.  I get it, it’s small and that’s the only way to do it , and I didn’t think it would bother me but I could see a Schiit stack getting crazy with wall warts all over the place.

Apologies for my disorganization  - this is why I don’t do reviews.  Hope this helps.


----------



## quimbo

inmytaxi said:


> I can't see what you're using for coax from the the Eitr to Modi?



That is a wyrd on the bottom using schiit usb

There is a coax cable on the modi that i use my fiio x7 with


----------



## sublime9

iamjaymo said:


> I’m not really a big reviewer of gear and my intention was just to listen to the Magni and see how I liked it…
> 
> One thing I didn’t like about the Magni is the fact it uses a giant wall wart.  I get it, it’s small and that’s the only way to do it , and I didn’t think it would bother me but I could see a Schiit stack getting crazy with wall warts all over the place.
> 
> Apologies for my disorganization  - this is why I don’t do reviews.  Hope this helps.



Nice review. As far as Schiit stacks and wallwarts - once CTHULU is back in stock it can solve that. 

http://www.schiit.com/products/floor-wart


----------



## Renato Fury

Does anyone here have any of these RCA connections?


----------



## sublime9 (Mar 26, 2018)

Renato Fury said:


> Does anyone here have any of these RCA connections?


You come up with the coolest stacking stuff!

https://introprose.myshopify.com/products/rigid-y-cross-connect-v3-for-schiit-stack

[edit, thanks to quimbo] or this: But not both.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SMS...839f-476f-9ce0-cb69b993ff6e&priceBeautifyAB=0

Sorry for the giant hyperlink.


----------



## quimbo

Not sure you can combine them.  Is the interconnect thing adjustable?  The shelves are not


----------



## sublime9

quimbo said:


> Not sure you can combine them.  Is the interconnect thing adjustable?  The shelves are not



That is a good point. The interconnect thing assumes the two components are stacked on each other with Schiit little round rubber feet. . The shelf thing would further separate the RCA connectors vertically. They will not BOTH work together. I edited my original post to remove bad advise and made it an either or.


----------



## Renato Fury

sublime9 said:


> You come up with the coolest stacking stuff!
> 
> https://introprose.myshopify.com/products/rigid-y-cross-connect-v3-for-schiit-stack
> 
> ...


I did not understand anything you said, but that's okay.


----------



## tracyrick

quimbo said:


> That is a wyrd on the bottom using schiit usb
> 
> There is a coax cable on the modi that i use my fiio x7 with



You can hear a noticeable improvement in sound using the Modi vs. the X7 DAC?


----------



## Coug (Mar 26, 2018)

I have the Interpose rca connector with tee between mimby and m3, with the tee to a bravo v2 (soon Vali 2). Mimby feeding both, with K7xx from m3 and HD6xx from the v2. Lean and sharp or Fat and juicy on tap.


----------



## quimbo

tracyrick said:


> You can hear a noticeable improvement in sound using the Modi vs. the X7 DAC?



I don't use the X7 very much at work.  I have 3 4TB portable drives of lossless music that I plug into a spare laptop and use foobar to play into wyrd > modi > loki > magni 3

Never really analyzed the difference between the tool.  next tine on a listen-only conference call I'll try to compare


----------



## riffrafff

Coug said:


> I have the Interpose rca connector with tee between mimby and m3, with the tee to a bravo v2 (soon Vali 2). Mimby feeding both, with K7xx from m3 and HD6xx from the v2. Lean and sharp or Fat and juicy on tap.



No issues with hum and noise, then? I always wondered, being as how the Interprose is unshielded.


----------



## Coug

No noise issues.  Works well.


----------



## Renato Fury

Coug said:


> No noise issues.  Works well.


But does it work as well as the pyst rca or other conventional cables or maybe there is some drop in quality?


----------



## madpistol

Got my first true (entry level) audiophile setup today.

Modi 2 + Magni 3.









Coming from a Creative Sound Blaster E5, this setup is without a doubt cleaner and smoother. The details just pop! It's incredible!

I'm only using some Sennheiser HD 598's at the moment. Once I get a bit more saved up, I'm planning on upgrading to some better headphones that will actually make this setup work for its money.


----------



## Coug

Can't say if there is any degradation. But i notice no ill effects.  

Really just 4 male to male rca couplers, and a pcb with female rca posts at just the right places.  One could always upgrade the couplers to gold or such.


----------



## UNOE

I saw a spreadsheet while back that compared schiit amps.  But can't fine it now, anyone know what I'm talking about it had color codes on it.


----------



## Chein

UNOE said:


> I saw a spreadsheet while back that compared schiit amps.  But can't fine it now, anyone know what I'm talking about it had color codes on it.


You mean this one?


----------



## sennsay (Mar 31, 2018)

Chein said:


> You mean this one?


That's an excellent chart, thanks for that! Handy to keep on file. It also explains a lot re my Magni 3 and the fact that there is little output difference between my 300 ohm HD6XX and the 600 ohm HD540 Ref 1s, on some albums the volume control is almost set to the same level and with others the difference might be just 12-12:30 and 1:30-2 o'clock. I think that despite the higher impedance, the Ref1s are an easier overall load, the impedance not swinging so much with frequency as the HD650/6XX are well known for. The chart shows only 300mV difference of output voltage between 300 and 600 ohms. Interesting.


----------



## UNOE

Thanks


----------



## Kevin Tam (Mar 31, 2018)

Hi guys, I received my Magni 3 three days ago and have been listening to it non-stop.  I am glad to report that any hype around this amp is well justified.
I honestly wasn't expecting much from the m3 at first.  I just needed an amp that can serve me alright while I save up for a decent tube amp. 
I know many have already said this but man did the guys at Schiit really set the new bar for the entry-level playing field.

Source:  PC --> Foobar2000 (WASAPI) --> Nuforce UDH-100 USB DAC/Amp (pre-out)
Headphones:  Fostex TH500RP

The magni is a transparent and all-rounded amp.  It doesn't have a stand-out sound character, which is a very good thing.  Leave that to tubes.  Having a m3 in my system allows me to fine tune the sound with other components (source, cables) easier.
The M3 drives my th500rp with authority.  I leave it at 3 o'clock on low gain.  Great attack, speed, and detail retrieval.  Compared to the Class A amp section on my UDH-100, the m3 sounds more neutral and have less bloom across frequencies.  For my music taste (mostly vocals), I could still prefer the added bloom in the sound from a Class A amp.  But at $99 with this level of performance, just take my money.  I will definitely keep this amp with me for a while.  The only discrete SS amp i had before was the Project Polaris from Garage1217.  The M3 is less than half of its price and performs just as well.

Will recommend this amp to anyone.


----------



## NorCal

Finally tried the Magni 3's preamp function this weekend. The wife wanted music sourced from the computer, so I pulled the jumpers on my NAD integrated amp so I could use it as a power amp. Sounded sweet ... listened to Radio Paradise all night. Glad that Schiit included the preamp functionality. Such a nice product.


----------



## sennsay

I wrote this post last night for the Senn HD540 thread (with a brief top up this morning a short time ago) and thought it worth sharing in this one, since my system is all Schiit .... I mean, concerns the Magni 3 and Mimby  Here goes:
I had a fine listening session last night, sort of a shoot-out with two, then three headphones. I was feeling the need for a good blast of rock and roll, so The Who-Live In Leeds fulfilled the need admirably, as it so often has. My favourite parts of this great and classic album start from "I'm A Boy" and it's brilliant introduction at the end of it to the next piece, "A Quick One, While He's Away" and followed by the outstanding two piece track, "Amazing Journey-Sparks". If that last one doesn't get your blood moving and whole body air guitaring, bassing and drumming, I don't know what would! WOW is that a stunning piece of music! Keith Moon's drumming is spectacular, let alone the brilliant contributions from the rest of the band. Hardly have they finished that rip-snorting pace they are straight into Summertime Blues and Shakin' All Over. However, despite those brilliant spectacles, it was the 15 minute+ My Generation medley that brought in all three of the headphones involved in my involuntary shoot-out. The Ref1s, HD6XX and later the HifiMAN HE400S with it's non-stock cable. 8 min 40s into the medley, from a quiet moment, Pete Townsend then hammers out the 5 chord intro repeat into the "See Me, Feel Me" refrain and it's amazing how telling just this little section is. Both the HD6XX and HE400S have slightly greater transparency and instrument detail, focus is tighter and 'smaller', greater initial string attack. It's the Ref1s though that bring me the joy, the sheer weight and _*presence*_ and _*intent*_ as Pete powers into those chords, the removal of any barrier between me and the performance. Coherence. Whole, like a real live performance is whole. The following 4 minutes or so is exhilarating in it's energy, totally consuming. 
 The other cans let me hear the recorded detail to a greater extent, but that doesn't mean I enjoy the music any more because of that. The Ref1s also let me really hear, feel and almost roll in ecstasy at John Entwhistle's bass playing, the other two headphones lighten that presence significantly, yes, the HD6XX included - they are improved with the Mogami cable, but nowhere near as delicious as the Ref1s with either Mogami or the HD6XX cable, with which they are well suited too and this is how I used them last night, the Mogami filling out the HD6XX somewhat.
 All in all, an interesting experience. The Ref1s always leave me feeling like I've been to the live performance, thrilled and almost exhausted with pleasure, complete with sweat and accelerated heart rate. The others .... stepped back from the live event a bit, a little more detail to listen too and while absorbing in itself, foot-tapping and enjoyable in their own right, the 'smaller' images leading to a lessened 'presence' and the reduction of John Entwhistle's extraordinary bass playing and commitment to the whole, just leaves me a little wanting - you simply must NOT reduce his contribution of the crucial bass solos on "My Generation", let alone any of the other pieces! Yes, the HD6XX play the bass just fine, tuneful and easy to hear that the treble is wound up on the guitar, as John usually did, yet it lacks the deeper presence, the grumbling, twanging, snapping _feel_ of John and bass guitar energy that is an essential part of the whole. 
 It's quite possible that even now, the HD6XX/HD650 are more admirable with the likes of the Little Dot MkIII/IVSE valve amps, but while they can be very good with the Mimby/Magni 3 combo, maybe they need something from the old stomping ground to really sing at their best? They have a rather weird distribution pattern, as if they have more focused imaging in front and to the sides, but a slight gap in presence in-between. Imagine a flattened 'W' laid out in front of you, more centre/left/right. The Ref1s have only an all-encompassing sound field that's noticeably different from any of my other headphones. No gaps, sound everywhere. No skull bones, no headphones, just music. Strangely, the HD6XX were rather good with  a recording of Beethoven's Violin Symphony, better than with rock music, actually, even if I was still aware that I was wearing something on my head.
 I am _really_ looking forward to hearing my upcoming Linear 1s with this fabulous concert when I can build them!
PS I went back to that Who concert a few moments ago, this morning now, a few minutes with the HD6XX - good - then back to the Ref1s and into the sheer energy of a live concert. Stunning show. Very hard to take the Ref1s of my head, not listening _to_ it, I'm _in_ it.


----------



## madpistol

The more I listen to my Schiit Stack (Modi 2 + Magni 3), the more enamored I become with it. I've gone back to listening to songs I haven't listened to in literally years. Combined with my Sennhesier HD 598's, every time I come away with the same impression: Great detail, lots of punch, and incredible sound stage. The sound is fuller, crisper, and seems to have a higher definition that I can ever remember on my Sound Blaster E5. It doesn't matter what the source is. Youtube, Spotify, FLAC, WAV, etc... they ALL sound better.

I keep going back to my E5 to see if it's a placebo, but it isn't. The E5 sounds dull by comparison.

Schiit got me hard. I love it!


----------



## JamminVMI

madpistol said:


> The more I listen to my Schiit Stack (Modi 2 + Magni 3), the more enamored I become with it. I've gone back to listening to songs I haven't listened to in literally years. Combined with my Sennhesier HD 598's, every time I come away with the same impression: Great detail, lots of punch, and incredible sound stage. The sound is fuller, crisper, and seems to have a higher definition that I can ever remember on my Sound Blaster E5. It doesn't matter what the source is. Youtube, Spotify, FLAC, WAV, etc... they ALL sound better.
> 
> I keep going back to my E5 to see if it's a placebo, but it isn't. The E5 sounds dull by comparison.
> 
> Schiit got me hard. I love it!


...and the 598’s are the most comfortable cans I’ve ever listened to, with sound very near to my 6xxs! You have a great combo. I still listen to my 598s a lot! And travel with my closed back 598s as well!

Glad you’re loving it! And what are those long-dormant/unplayed songs you’re playing?


----------



## madpistol

JamminVMI said:


> ...and the 598’s are the most comfortable cans I’ve ever listened to, with sound very near to my 6xxs! You have a great combo. I still listen to my 598s a lot! And travel with my closed back 598s as well!
> 
> Glad you’re loving it! And what are those long-dormant/unplayed songs you’re playing?



At the moment, listening to 

Roundabout by Yes
Africa by Toto
War Pigs by Black Sabbath  <---- If I had to guess, this would probably sound AMAZING on a tube amp.
Everything in its Right Place by Radiohead  <----- usually very smooth, but sounds almost gritty with as much detail as I can hear now. It's sublime.


Many more, but that's just a small sampling.


----------



## JamminVMI

madpistol said:


> At the moment, listening to
> 
> Roundabout by Yes
> Africa by Toto
> ...


Ha! Just bought the remaster of Totos Greatest Hits on disc, ripped to ALAC, agree that Africa is scary goos there. Yes 90125 is also fantastic! If you can, highly (highly) recommend the track Lady of Dreams on Kitaro’s Dream album, featuring Jon Anderson of Yes. Magical, that!


----------



## madpistol

JamminVMI said:


> Ha! Just bought the remaster of Totos Greatest Hits on disc, ripped to ALAC, agree that Africa is scary goos there. Yes 90125 is also fantastic! If you can, highly (highly) recommend the track Lady of Dreams on Kitaro’s Dream album, featuring Jon Anderson of Yes. Magical, that!



Wow, that's some good stuff! I'll have to expand my playlist include some of those gems.

So now a question. Which method will help to get the most out of my Magni 3?


1. Max out Computer/PC volume and control output on Amp only?
-OR-
2. Set AMP to comfortable level, then control volume with PC?


Or will there even be a difference in perceived quality?


----------



## JamminVMI

madpistol said:


> Wow, that's some good stuff! I'll have to expand my playlist include some of those gems.
> 
> So now a question. Which method will help to get the most out of my Magni 3?
> 
> ...


I’m just as interested as you in this question. Since I’m running squeezebox server int a squeezebox classic (or raspberry pi...), i can control volume from the couch/iPad, so i set my volume on the amp to a medium comfy level with the squeezebox set at 50%, which gives me a good dynamic range in both directions.

Works for me, interested in what others think...


----------



## Byronb

Set your PC volume to 100% and use the amp to control volume. Using the computer to control volume chops off bits. Of course YMMV, IMHO, etc. etc.


----------



## ScOgLiO

Byronb said:


> Set your PC volume to 100% and use the amp to control volume. Using the computer to control volume chops off bits. Of course YMMV, IMHO, etc. etc.



+1

And it's probably not that YMMY, IMHO, Yadda Yadda and so on, since by lowering volume from the source (i.e. the pc) would actually limit the amount of info that is transmitted along the chain.
Sorry, I don't remember exctly how much you lose at a certain volume level, the topic has come up a number of times on these pages...just to say, it's not just popular wisdom, but sensible advice!


----------



## TERMiNAL_

ScOgLiO said:


> +1
> 
> And it's probably not that YMMY, IMHO, Yadda Yadda and so on, since by lowering volume from the source (i.e. the pc) would actually limit the amount of info that is transmitted along the chain.
> Sorry, I don't remember exctly how much you lose at a certain volume level, the topic has come up a number of times on these pages...just to say, it's not just popular wisdom, but sensible advice!



Is there any proof of this? I'd rather have my amp on full volume just at the distortion point, much more volume control this way.


----------



## ScOgLiO

TERMiNAL_ said:


> Is there any proof of this? I'd rather have my amp on full volume just at the distortion point, much more volume control this way.



I remember more than one post about this and a few external links as well.
I'll try to find it, but it's been a while...I'm sure you can find something by googling it, though


----------



## Tuneslover

TERMiNAL_ said:


> Is there any proof of this? I'd rather have my amp on full volume just at the distortion point, much more volume control this way.



Try both ways and pick what sounds best to you.  Personally I prefer to up the volume (max-ish) on the source and use the amp to control overall volume.


----------



## TERMiNAL_

ScOgLiO said:


> I remember more than one post about this and a few external links as well.
> I'll try to find it, but it's been a while...I'm sure you can find something by googling it, though





Tuneslover said:


> Try both ways and pick what sounds best to you.  Personally I prefer to up the volume (max-ish) on the source and use the amp to control overall volume.



I use Equalizer APO, so basically I can limit the source volume, adjust the pre amp volume...and my amp has 2 gain screws to match headphone gain...

Lots of options for me


----------



## GearMe

TERMiNAL_ said:


> Is there any proof of this? I'd rather have my amp on full volume just at the distortion point, much more volume control this way.



This article seems to cover some aspects/considerations regarding digital vs analog volume control...

http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/VolumeControl.htm


----------



## TERMiNAL_

GearMe said:


> This article seems to cover some aspects/considerations regarding digital vs analog volume control...
> 
> http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/VolumeControl.htm



Awesome little article thanks,

"A lot of audiophiles think digital volume control is bad.
They set the digital volume control to 100% and use an analog device because with digital volume control one loses resolution and dynamic range."

"Indeed the audiophile is right; we lose resolution and get more noise!"

Looks like %100 on computer is best...at least from this article.

Audiophiles are "Right"


----------



## bixby

ScOgLiO said:


> +1
> 
> And it's probably not that YMMY, IMHO, Yadda Yadda and so on, since by lowering volume from the source (i.e. the pc) would actually limit the amount of info that is transmitted along the chain.
> Sorry, I don't remember exctly how much you lose at a certain volume level, the topic has come up a number of times on these pages...just to say, it's not just popular wisdom, but sensible advice!





TERMiNAL_ said:


> Is there any proof of this? I'd rather have my amp on full volume just at the distortion point, much more volume control this way.



Yes and no.  Depends on the player software actually.  JRiver and some other players have a dithered volume control option which does not lose any bits of data.  Foobar also loses very little bit depth as well.  Actually likely that some recordings that were done hot may digitally clip at 100% SW setting or overload the input side of the amp (rare).  I run Foobar at about -3 to 4 db and have heard no degradation in sound quality on any of my setups. 

FWIU, I really do not think with modern music one would hear even a 3 bit reduction since most stuff is so dynamically compressed, you would never know that you aren't hearing those low level bits because there isn't anything there in the recording.

But in theory, bit reduction without dithering is a thing.

Controlling with an analog pot unless really not very transparent is preferred unless you get down to the channel imbalance area of the range at low settings.


----------



## TERMiNAL_

bixby said:


> Yes and no.  Depends on the player software actually.  JRiver and some other players have a dithered volume control option which does not lose any bits of data.  Foobar also loses very little bit depth as well.  Actually likely that some recordings that were done hot may digitally clip at 100% SW setting or overload the input side of the amp (rare).  I run Foobar at about -3 to 4 db and have heard no degradation in sound quality on any of my setups.
> 
> FWIU, I really do not think with modern music one would hear even a 3 bit reduction since most stuff is so dynamically compressed, you would never know that you aren't hearing those low level bits because there isn't anything there in the recording.
> 
> ...



Well said!

Right now I am setting my system volume to %100, and using the Equalizer APO with "automatic-prevent-clipping" with my PA2V2 amp into my onboard sound.

This way I have a wide volume control and at max on my amp it starts to clip/distort.

I prefer a wide volume range, going right to loud is annoying.


----------



## bixby

TERMiNAL_ said:


> Well said!
> 
> Right now I am setting my system volume to %100, and using the Equalizer APO with "automatic-prevent-clipping" with my PA2V2 amp into my onboard sound.
> 
> ...




Yes, know what you mean.  I use a VST plugin from Tokyo Dawn Labs for very slight EQ for my Senn 600s.  That is where I discovered some stuff will clip even though it supposedly has an anti-clip and auto gain logic and reduces gain digitally in the EQ plugin.  so mild -4db foo vol reduction works like a charm.  Lots of eq settings make it worse in this setup and you really have to reduce Foobar volume if using more than a couple of simple para eq points.  You would think it would be done right, but nope!


----------



## sublime9

JamminVMI said:


> ...and the 598’s are the most comfortable cans I’ve ever listened to, with sound very near to my 6xxs! You have a great combo. I still listen to my 598s a lot! And travel with my closed back 598s as well!
> 
> Glad you’re loving it! And what are those long-dormant/unplayed songs you’re playing?


+ ∞. The 598's are so comfortable. The 6XX are not. I can't wear them for more than 20 minutes.


----------



## JamminVMI

sublime9 said:


> + ∞. The 598's are so comfortable. The 6XX are not. I can't wear them for more than 20 minutes.


I thought the same thing when I saw your post. But I assure you, the 6xxs do stop the excessive skull squeezing over time... With that said, I LOVE my 598s.


----------



## Nastrahl

Hi,

It happened that I’ve been offered an Magni 3 but I already own a Vali 2 with an EH 6922 Gold tube, and I wondered If I can chain them (and the actual pros/cons of doing so) ?


----------



## JamminVMI

Nastrahl said:


> Hi,
> 
> It happened that I’ve been offered an Magni 3 but I already own a Vali 2 with an EH 6922 Gold tube, and I wondered If I can chain them (and the actual pros/cons of doing so) ?


I have them A/Bed through a SYS, love to compare, some tunes I prefer with the tube...


----------



## madpistol

After playing around with volume on both my PC and the Magni 3, it would definitely seem that leaving the PC @ 100% and then using the volume on the Magni 3 is the way to go.

I'm not sure if it's a placebo effect, but everything just has a bit more "punch" to it. The sound just feels more alive in almost all scenarios. I know there's no such thing as "High-Definition" sound, but it just feels the quality has been cranked up BIG TIME compared to any other source I've listened to. I have a hard time believing it can be EVEN BETTER on a set of higher-end headphones (currently using HD 598.)

The last week or so has been so eye opening for me. A good DAC/AMP combo really does make a massive difference. It just sucks that sound quality is so subjective; I know that very few people that I know would have a true appreciation for high quality sound. It makes me sad.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

It is better to adjust volume via analog.  Take it from engineers directly.

http://www.esstech.com/files/3014/4095/4308/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf


----------



## TERMiNAL_

madpistol said:


> After playing around with volume on both my PC and the Magni 3, it would definitely seem that leaving the PC @ 100% and then using the volume on the Magni 3 is the way to go.
> 
> I'm not sure if it's a placebo effect, but everything just has a bit more "punch" to it. The sound just feels more alive in almost all scenarios. I know there's no such thing as "High-Definition" sound, but it just feels the quality has been cranked up BIG TIME compared to any other source I've listened to. I have a hard time believing it can be EVEN BETTER on a set of higher-end headphones (currently using HD 598.)
> 
> The last week or so has been so eye opening for me. A good DAC/AMP combo really does make a massive difference. It just sucks that sound quality is so subjective; I know that very few people that I know would have a true appreciation for high quality sound. It makes me sad.



I am going to agree with you leaving the system volume at %100, I also feel a better "punch" when system is at 100.

But I need to keep the "Loudness Equalization" option on or use the pre-amp setting in Equalizer APO to -10 or -15 or so because you can hear the sound clipping in the headphones when the system is at 100%.

Do you have to do the same thing as me?


----------



## Nastrahl (Apr 15, 2018)

TERMiNAL_ said:


> I am going to agree with you leaving the system volume at %100, I also feel a better "punch" when system is at 100.
> 
> But I need to keep the "Loudness Equalization" option on or use the pre-amp setting in Equalizer APO to -10 or -15 or so because you can hear the sound clipping in the headphones when the system is at 100%.
> 
> Do you have to do the same thing as me?



Here using my PC at 100% with no equalizer, USB connected to the Modi Multibit and Magni 3. I can confirm that I’ve got no issue whatsoever.


----------



## KaiFi

When I connect the Modi to a Mac, the on-board volume control is automatically disabled, so it's a moot point. Didn't know it was even adjustable on a PC.


----------



## KaiserTK

I've had the Magni 3 for a while now, and I must say it is one of my favorite amps I've used in this price range.
I wouldn't say it's the best, but it can easily drive most headphones without feel of wanting more out of the music.
I'm especially impressed by the low noise floor, since a lot of the amps I've tried in this price range add significant hissing noise while using IEMs.


----------



## treecloud

KaiserTK said:


> I wouldn't say it's the best



I'm considering a Magni 3 purchase and would be curious to know some of your other reference points, and what you think may be better in the general price range.


----------



## KaiserTK

treecloud said:


> I'm considering a Magni 3 purchase and would be curious to know some of your other reference points, and what you think may be better in the general price range.


If you don't mind me considering 200 USD as the general price point since it is usually paired with the Modi, then I would also consider:
-the (infamous) O2+ODAC if you like more analytical sound
-iFi BL Nano for some nice iFi features (and portability)
-AudioQuest DragonFly Red if you primarily use your laptop for music
-Littledot Mk2 if you want to straight jump to good tube amps
-Fiio Q1 Mk2 for cheaper, portable, really warm sound
These are just few of the entry level gear I've tried that I thought was within the quality range of the Schiit stack.
Of course anybody can argue either way, but it really boils down to what kind of sound/functions you're looking for and cans/iems you have.
Hope this helped.


----------



## joeexp

KaiserTK said:


> If you don't mind me considering 200 USD as the general price point ...



Since when is double the price the same price range?


----------



## madpistol

joeexp said:


> Since when is double the price the same price range?



I think what he means is $200 for the DAC + AMP. $200 is the price of a Modi 2 + Magni 3, so comparing that against $200 solutions with both a DAC and AMP is fair IMO.


----------



## treecloud

Yes, generally helpful, thanks. I've heard a Dragonfly Red and liked it alot, and have an O2+ODAC which I also like quite a lot when I can put some (warming) EQ in the chain (with HE-400s). But I have no system wide EQ and considering the Magni 3 and Loki pair.


----------



## eldus (Apr 21, 2018)

I used Caig Deoxit100 (can) on the pot, which was scratchy and had some channel dropout. It is now smooth and silent. @Schiit must ship them with dry pots. I guess. Works beautifully now.

Edit: I did have to open up the top and void my warranty

TBH i think (subjectively) it sounds better than when it was new YMMV


----------



## ScOgLiO

eldus said:


> I used Caig Deoxit100 (can) on the pot, which was scratchy and had some channel dropout. It is now smooth and silent. @Schiit must ship them with dry pots. I guess. Works beautifully now.
> 
> Edit: I did have to open up the top and void my warranty
> 
> TBH i think it sounds better than when it was new



Oh, that seems weird. Did you find the pot a bit stiff to operate?
I have noticed a slight channel imbalance at very low volume levels (left channel basically cutting out) and it seems a common issue. Well, I don't feel it's a huge problem, since I don't usually go that low with my volume anyway, plus I guess it's the price to pay for...not having to pay much for such a good amp 

It may be that your volume pot was a bit problematic, though, since mine is surely very smooth


----------



## riffrafff

Mine's smooth, too, but noisy between 10 and 2 o'clock on quiet passages.  I have some Deoxit at work; I'll try it tomorrow.  You didn't have to pry open the pot, then?


----------



## eldus (Apr 21, 2018)

riffrafff said:


> Mine's smooth, too, but noisy between 10 and 2 o'clock on quiet passages.  I have some Deoxit at work; I'll try it tomorrow.  You didn't have to pry open the pot, then?


I tried to take the pot off the front, but it wouldn't budge, and I didn't want to damage it. i just placed the tube nozzle in the gap between the knob and the lead. there also appears to be to small slits on the top. Its an APLS pot


ScOgLiO said:


> Oh, that seems weird. Did you find the pot a bit stiff to operate?
> I have noticed a slight channel imbalance at very low volume levels (left channel basically cutting out) that is normal for pots at this price,and it seems a common issue. Well, I don't feel it's a huge problem, since I don't usually go that low with my volume anyway, plus I guess it's the price to pay for...not having to pay much for such a good amp
> It may be that your volume pot was a bit problematic, though, since mine is surely very smooth


 on my unit, if you touched the pot, the right channel would sometimes drop volume. its great now.

the pot on mine was stiff
Edit: formatting issues


----------



## ScOgLiO

eldus said:


> on my unit, if you touched the pot, the right channel would sometimes drop volume. its great now.
> 
> the pot on mine was stiff



Yeah, it definitely had some issues, then. Good you were able to fix it!


----------



## riffrafff (Apr 28, 2018)

eldus said:


> I used Caig Deoxit100 (can) on the pot, which was scratchy and had some channel dropout. It is now smooth and silent. @Schiit must ship them with dry pots. I guess. Works beautifully now.
> 
> Edit: I did have to open up the top and void my warranty
> 
> TBH i think (subjectively) it sounds better than when it was new YMMV



I finally got around to spraying some Deoxit into that pot.  Seems to have worked.  I gotta say, though, that's the first time I've heard noise from a new Alps pot.  'Course, it _is_ a low-end Alps pot (I noticed it has a plastic shaft, as opposed to the metal shaft shown in the pics on Schiit's web site). 

EDIT:  Oops!  My mistake.  I was thinking of another device I had apart at the same time.  Senior moment, I guess.  My Magni 3 has a metal shaft.  D'oh!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Edit:  oops wrong thread.


----------



## madpistol

I did something crazy tonight; I compared my Sennheiser HD 598's on my Galaxy S8+ to my Schiit stack (Magni 3/Modi 2).

The direct comparison leaves me rather perplexed... when did our smartphones start having decent audio reproduction? I was being hyper critical on my S8+ to try and find a noticeable difference, and it literally took me 5+ minutes of back and forth between my S8+ and my Schiit stack to finally notice a marked difference. I tried all kinds of different songs and genres, and honestly, my final conclusion is this.

The sound stage on the Schiit stack is slightly wider and the bass is a bit cleaner as well (obviously, I would expect the lows to be cleaner considering the power difference), but in terms of sound clarity/definition, they are almost identical. Now, bear in mind, that my Magni 3 is only at about 12'o clock on the volume versus about 90% on my S8+. Again, I would expect no less as the Magni 3 has a wall wart, and the S8+ is running on a phone battery.

I think it's time for me to save up for some new, higher-end audiophile headphones. Any suggestions?


----------



## crazychile

madpistol said:


> I did something crazy tonight; I compared my Sennheiser HD 598's on my Galaxy S8+ to my Schiit stack (Magni 3/Modi 2).
> 
> The direct comparison leaves me rather perplexed... when did our smartphones start having decent audio reproduction? I was being hyper critical on my S8+ to try and find a noticeable difference, and it literally took me 5+ minutes of back and forth between my S8+ and my Schiit stack to finally notice a marked difference. I tried all kinds of different songs and genres, and honestly, my final conclusion is this.
> 
> ...



I replaced my HD-598s with HD-650s. They sound great on a Magni 3. Hands down the best cheap combo I've ever heard.


----------



## RickB

Schiit Audio Magni 3 review.

https://www.whathifi.com/schiit-audio/magni-3/review


----------



## ctrlm

I recently got the Mimby and the Magni 3 to pair together as a secondary system being fed from my iMac. I'm actually staggered by how good these tiny things sound!

On the first day I tried with both my HD600 and HD650 cans and preferred the 650s. 24 hours later, after leaving both units on, the HD600s were definitely the best match to my ears. I assume the Mimby needed some more time to get up to speed?

Anyway, I now have the Eitr on order as I'm curious whether or not this stack can sound even better.


----------



## sennsay

Glad you're loving the combo  After over 40 years of being involved in hifi and gear, _I'M_ staggered at how good these two are! The Mimby uses so little power that leaving it on is a good idea, I find there are subtle improvements after hours of being kept warmed up, compared to even an hour or more from switch on. A sense of greater ease and flow, more than specific details.


----------



## nicknack40

Latest review on the Magni 3 is out

https://www.whathifi.com/schiit-audio/magni-3/review

Im using mine with the Audeze LCD2-C and more then happy with results


----------



## crazychile

ctrlm said:


> I recently got the Mimby and the Magni 3 to pair together as a secondary system being fed from my iMac. I'm actually staggered by how good these tiny things sound!
> 
> On the first day I tried with both my HD600 and HD650 cans and preferred the 650s. 24 hours later, after leaving both units on, the HD600s were definitely the best match to my ears. I assume the Mimby needed some more time to get up to speed?
> 
> Anyway, I now have the Eitr on order as I'm curious whether or not this stack can sound even better.



Leave both on and don't shut them off. (Especially the Mimby). I think after a week or two of use you'll like the combo even more, and that's even before you throw an EITR into the mix.


----------



## sennsay

crazychile said:


> Leave both on and don't shut them off. (Especially the Mimby). I think after a week or two of use you'll like the combo even more, and that's even before you throw an EITR into the mix.


Agreed totally. They only use 13W between them, less than a salt lamp bulb/globe.


----------



## riffrafff

Yeah, I think an Eitr will be my next addition (that, and a Cthulu).  Although, my USB _seems _rather clean...so I'm not sure how much improvement I will realize.


----------



## sennsay

riffrafff said:


> Yeah, I think an Eitr will be my next addition (that, and a Cthulu).  Although, my USB _seems _rather clean...so I'm not sure how much improvement I will realize.


Nice stack


----------



## ctrlm

crazychile said:


> Leave both on and don't shut them off. (Especially the Mimby). I think after a week or two of use you'll like the combo even more, and that's even before you throw an EITR into the mix.



Trust me - they aren't getting turned off. I always leave DACs and amps on.


----------



## KaiFi

Just got a Bifrost 4490 to replace my Modi 2 and...wow. I find it to be a much better match for the Magni 3. The Bifrost's higher output means I don't have to turn the volume up so high and I can really hear the power when I _do_ increase the volume. Sometimes with the Modi 2 I'd have the volume at 12 o'clock and it still seemed like it wasn't loud enough with some classical tracks. Not an issue at all with the Bifrost.


----------



## TERMiNAL_ (May 11, 2018)

KaiFi said:


> Just got a Bifrost 4490 to replace my Modi 2 and...wow. I find it to be a much better match for the Magni 3. The Bifrost's higher output means I don't have to turn the volume up so high and I can really hear the power when I _do_ increase the volume. Sometimes with the Modi 2 I'd have the volume at 12 o'clock and it still seemed like it wasn't loud enough with some classical tracks. Not an issue at all with the Bifrost.



Uhh Bitfrost got some horrible reviews compared to a much cheaper DAC, the Topping D30.

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...d-review-of-schiit-bifrost-multibit-dac.2319/

*Conclusion*
It is no secret that the previous Schiit products have not done well on my workbench. But I was hoping as suggested by many that their high-end products would do better. Alas, what is shown above is just unacceptable. It shows a product that simply has no design hygiene. Either wrong DACs are used or driven incorrectly in the implementation. There are DACs literally at 10% of the cost that do much better.

Yes I know the subjectivists go by what these devices "sound like." But I want one of them with a straight face tell me how their music is better where a spray of distortion and noise is added to any single tone in their music. How can any of this be euphonic???

I have no choice but to give the Schiit BiFrost Multibit a failing grade. *NOT Recommended.*


----------



## TheGame21x

riffrafff said:


> Yeah, I think an Eitr will be my next addition (that, and a Cthulu).  Although, my USB _seems _rather clean...so I'm not sure how much improvement I will realize.



The Modi Multibit's USB input is measurably inferior to its coax input so adding an Eitr will provide a good deal of performance improvement. And I say this from personal experience. I'm quite pleased with the improvement over the USB and TOSLINK inputs the Eitr delivers.


----------



## riffrafff

TheGame21x said:


> The Modi Multibit's USB input is measurably inferior to its coax input so adding an Eitr will provide a good deal of performance improvement. And I say this from personal experience. I'm quite pleased with the improvement over the USB and TOSLINK inputs the Eitr delivers.



Coolness.  Thanks for that info!


----------



## KaiFi

TERMiNAL_ said:


> Uhh Bitfrost got some horrible reviews compared to a much cheaper DAC, the Topping D30.
> 
> https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...d-review-of-schiit-bifrost-multibit-dac.2319/
> 
> ...



Cool story. 

I was only posting to say that I feel that the Bifrost 4490 (NOT the multi-bit version) has unleashed more of the Magni 3's potential in my opinion. That's all. Not trying to get into an argument about DACs.


----------



## sennsay

TheGame21x said:


> The Modi Multibit's USB input is measurably inferior to its coax input so adding an Eitr will provide a good deal of performance improvement. And I say this from personal experience. I'm quite pleased with the improvement over the USB and TOSLINK inputs the Eitr delivers.


Yes, I've noticed that too, using USB. I rarely do anyway, the optical output from the Questyle QP1R DAP is vastly better and utterly silent and the way I mostly listen to any music these days.


----------



## dwinnert

How does an Eitr help? If the data coming from the USB is off, how does sending that off data to the Eitr help when it is just taking that off data and converting it to coax output?

I built my PC and have a highly rated clean PSU, run it off a sine wave UPS and my Gigabyte MB has a dedicated USB for DAC use. When not playing music my Modi 2U/Magni 3 is dead silent to my ears. Not sure how a Eitr would help.


----------



## Nastrahl

Strange; I read that Eitr is useless with the Mimby since it got it own power supply. To really hear a bit of noise with USB I have to chain my Vali 2 and Magni 3, turn both high gain on, then turn their volume knob a lot.


----------



## riffrafff

It's not audible "noise," per se, as I understand it.  The issue with USB audio is often "jitter."  So my guess is that you wouldn't have an issue when not playing music.    My current solution is to just crank it up!  LOL.


----------



## joeexp

Mimby needs the Eitr or a good transport.
Bimby has got USB 5 already.


----------



## luckybaer

dwinnert said:


> How does an Eitr help? If the data coming from the USB is off, how does sending that off data to the Eitr help when it is just taking that off data and converting it to coax output?
> 
> I built my PC and have a highly rated clean PSU, run it off a sine wave UPS and my Gigabyte MB has a dedicated USB for DAC use. When not playing music my Modi 2U/Magni 3 is dead silent to my ears. Not sure how a Eitr would help.


Great!  Sounds like you won't need to waste any money on an Eitr.  Enjoy the music.


----------



## TheGame21x

dwinnert said:


> How does an Eitr help? If the data coming from the USB is off, how does sending that off data to the Eitr help when it is just taking that off data and converting it to coax output?
> 
> I built my PC and have a highly rated clean PSU, run it off a sine wave UPS and my Gigabyte MB has a dedicated USB for DAC use. When not playing music my Modi 2U/Magni 3 is dead silent to my ears. Not sure how a Eitr would help.



With the Eitr, you're not using the Mimby's USB input. The USB from your PC goes to the Eitr, and the Eitr reclocks it, regenerates it and outputs it as SPDIF/Coax, which then feeds the Mimby. It's just a way to get Schiit's USB Gen 5 tech for the Mimby and, as I said before, the Mimby's USB input is compromised. Its Coax/SPDIF input is far better.



Nastrahl said:


> Strange; I read that Eitr is useless with the Mimby since it got it own power supply. To really hear a bit of noise with USB I have to chain my Vali 2 and Magni 3, turn both high gain on, then turn their volume knob a lot.



That's the Wyrd you're thinking of, as it just provides separate, clean USB power for DACs, which the Mimby doesn't need since it generates its own power. The Eitr is a USB to SPDIF converter. 

Bottom line is, if you think your system sounds fine without it, then great! You probably don't need it. I bought it because my primary source is my PC and the Mimby's USB input just isn't as good as its TOSLINK/SPDIF inputs and the Eitr's.


----------



## Nastrahl

TheGame21x said:


> With the Eitr, you're not using the Mimby's USB input. The USB from your PC goes to the Eitr, and the Eitr reclocks it, regenerates it and outputs it as SPDIF/Coax, which then feeds the Mimby. It's just a way to get Schiit's USB Gen 5 tech for the Mimby and, as I said before, the Mimby's USB input is compromised. Its Coax/SPDIF input is far better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, yeah you are right indeed I mixed them up. :/


----------



## omniweltall

Anyone ever compared the Magni 3 vs ifi iCAN SE? this is the shootout I'm most interested. They both have small form factor and put out similar power.


----------



## genadyk

Can anybody tell me is QP1R good with Shure SE846? I am looking for a DAP and already tried Opus#2, LP5Pro, Fioo 7 mk2 and to my taste all these have not enough bass. I would бе grateful for your advise.


----------



## sennsay

genadyk said:


> Can anybody tell me is QP1R good with Shure SE846? I am looking for a DAP and already tried Opus#2, LP5Pro, Fioo 7 mk2 and to my taste all these have not enough bass. I would бе grateful for your advise.


Depends if you mean lots of bass or truly excellent bass quality. I absolutely love the quality of my QP1R and although it may not have gobs of power into the very deep bass, with my HE400S and Focus A pads there is plenty of quality _and_ quantity for me. Tom Jones' What Fool Am I has an incredible tactility to the massive big drum strikes that thunder for the HD400S. But I am not a bass head or EDM freak either and will take quality over sheer thump any day. Not that I'm saying that's how you are  The review of the QP1R in Enjoy The Music mag was sublime with top class IEMs, I'm not familiar with your Shures. Might this help?


----------



## genadyk

sennsay said:


> Depends if you mean lots of bass or truly excellent bass quality. I absolutely love the quality of my QP1R and although it may not have gobs of power into the very deep bass, with my HE400S and Focus A pads there is plenty of quality _and_ quantity for me. Tom Jones' What Fool Am I has an incredible tactility to the massive big drum strikes that thunder for the HD400S. But I am not a bass head or EDM freak either and will take quality over sheer thump any day. Not that I'm saying that's how you are  The review of the QP1R in Enjoy The Music mag was sublime with top class IEMs, I'm not familiar with your Shures. Might this help?


Thanks, I wouldn't say that I am a bass head and  looking for quality and quantity. I have an old high end integrated amplifier SimAudio Celeste 4070  and it has headphone output so I am using it with my Shure SE846 and so far this  is the reference sound for me. May be it is not possible to find the DAP with a such quality of sound?


----------



## sennsay

genadyk said:


> Thanks, I wouldn't say that I am a bass head and  looking for quality and quantity. I have an old high end integrated amplifier SimAudio Celeste 4070  and it has headphone output so I am using it with my Shure SE846 and so far this  is the reference sound for me. May be it is not possible to find the DAP with a such quality of sound?


Well look, funny you should mention that, but I had  an experience two days ago where my Sennheiser HD6xx actually sounded better through a 20/30W Pioneer amp's headphone jack than it does through my Schiit stack in some respects! That was with a turntable playing into it. I hear you. And that's on old version of that amp, 80's maybe. Even with my first HD650s actually, they just sounded better through the big amp output. 
The thing with the QP1R is that the equaliser in it is fine quality too, like everything else about that DAP ..... well, apart from the slightly tricky scroll wheel. It more than makes up for it with superlative SQ and sheer brilliant timing. And it makes a fantastically clean and quiet source, I sold a very good $3500 CD player because it got trounced by the QP1R in most everything that actually mattered.


----------



## kingk6673 (May 25, 2018)

I have both the Magni 3 and the iFi Ican SE and both have their strengths.  I find the Ican SE is very good for warmth and detail up to a point.  It seems more forgiving depending on the input but I felt that there might be more that this really good amp was not relaying in the music.  With the Magni 3 I heard exactly what I was missing.

When using a upmoded ifi Mico BL with good interconnects and noise suppression with MQA the Magni 3 crushes it and is in a league of its own!  The Magni 3 is more detailed, has better separation of instruments and microdetail.  All across the board it sounds better than the Ican SE and it is very noticeable improvement in the sound over the Ican SE in my system.

My system is Computer > Anticable USB > iFi Mico USB 3.0 > Pangea Split USB cable > iFi Mico BL > Anticable 6.2 RCA > Magni 3 > Hifiman Edition X V2
Have a number of iFi 3.0 USB noise suppression, vibrapod vibration dampening and other tweaks to enhance audio quality and noise floor.  No snake oil stuff though!


----------



## eruditass (May 29, 2018)

I've read a fair number of descriptions of the Magni 3 & 2 sounding compressed or not getting loud enough and had stumbled across this reddit post on the issue.  While he seems to have some fundamental misunderstanding of what Jason Stoddard is saying, he's solved his dynamic range issues through modifying his setup. 

For those that have/had the issue, what source and ~Vrms was going into it? And has anyone gotten any SPL measurements to rule out actual hardware issues?


----------



## Renato Fury

Ask me a question, do you guys think it's a problem to pair Magni 3 with Ol Dac?


----------



## dwinnert

DoomzDayz said:


> I've read a fair number of descriptions of the Magni 3 & 2 sounding compressed or not getting loud enough and had stumbled across this reddit post on the issue.  While he seems to have some fundamental misunderstanding of what Jason Stoddard is saying, he's solved his dynamic range issues through modifying his setup.
> 
> For those that have/had the issue, what source and ~Vrms was going into it? And has anyone gotten any SPL measurements to rule out actual hardware issues?



I followed a bunch of threads on this when I was first looking at the Magni 3. Right away when I saw the complaints, I knew what the issue was. This also reinforces my opinion about people like DMS3 TV and other YouTube "stars".....They have more money than knowledge.  I only watch their vids for basic details and rarely accept their opinions. I am surprised that so many people did not see an issue with double amping. Also where is DMS3 TV's follow up where he admits the issue was because of his lack of knowledge about the amp?


----------



## dwinnert

Renato Fury said:


> Ask me a question, do you guys think it's a problem to pair Magni 3 with Ol Dac?



I can't see any issue with using an OL DAC.


----------



## Renato Fury

dwinnert said:


> I can't see any issue with using an OL DAC.


But do you think Modi 2 would be a better option or does it not make so much difference in this price range?


----------



## dwinnert

Renato Fury said:


> But do you think Modi 2 would be a better option or does it not make so much difference in this price range?



I have the Modi 2 Uber and think it sounds fantastic with my Magni 3. If you don't have a DAC, then It's probably a toss up. But if you have the OL DAC, I would just use that.

I will say I kinda wish I paid the extra for the Modi 2 Multibit, just to say I have it. Even though I A/B'd both at the Schiit store and did not hear much if any difference and at the time the extra $100 did not make sense.


----------



## treecloud

TERMiNAL_ said:


> Uhh Bitfrost got some horrible reviews compared to a much cheaper DAC, the Topping D30.
> 
> https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...d-review-of-schiit-bifrost-multibit-dac.2319/
> 
> ...



I like the audiosciencereview site a lot, brings a little balance into the mix. Butt (big butt), that review is of the multi bit, not the 4490 version of BiFrost, which a lot of subjective reviewers like better than the multibit version. Big Mike himself says it measures better. Horses for courses.

Your point is therefor moot my friend.

Speaking to the last point made in the above quote, how measurable distortions can be "euphonic", is a topic onto itself. I could name sevveral right now, but I don't want to drag this thread off the lovely Schiit Magni 3, and desirable ancillaries.

I'll just say this, much of what we think of as high end audio is based on measured distortions that are pleasurable to the ear/brain for various reasons.


----------



## dwinnert

treecloud said:


> I like the audiosciencereview site a lot, brings a little balance into the mix. Butt (big butt), that review is of the multi bit, not the 4490 version of BiFrost, which a lot of subjective reviewers like better than the multibit version. Big Mike himself says it measures better. Horses for courses.
> 
> Your point is therefor moot my friend.
> 
> ...



audiosciencereview.....Just another person with test equipment and too much time. 

BTW, other sites have contradicted his tests, so I just put his opinions into the sea of other opinions on the net.


----------



## treecloud (Jun 1, 2018)

dwinnert said:


> audiosciencereview.....Just another person with test equipment and too much time.
> 
> BTW, other sites have contradicted his tests, so I just put his opinions into the sea of other opinions on the net.



Did you bother to read his background? Other people contradict...who cares? We live work and play in a sea of contradiction. The viable point is synthesis.

Personally I am neither objectivist or subjectivist, both are viable views with much on offer.

How do we measure progress? Where would audio be without the aids of engineering? Would it even exist to begin with?


----------



## dwinnert (Jun 1, 2018)

treecloud said:


> Did you bother to read his background? Other people contradict...who cares? We live work and play in a sea of contradiction. The viable point is synthesis.
> 
> Personally I am neither objectivist or subjectivist, both are viable views with much on offer.



Yeah I did read about his background. Still does not matter to me. He is still a guy with opinions and my opinion differs from his.

I have been into hi-fi since the late 70's and tests only mean so much. I have had so many actual listening sessions that contradicted scientific tests that I just trust what I like over any test. I had a Counterpoint SA-7 that feed a Sumo Polaris and Magnepans in the mid 80's that tested like crap....yet, everyone that heard my setup thought it sounded fantastic. Many people quote a graph and are like, "see that thing sucks", when the graph only tells you a portion of the story. Look at all the headphones that have charts that almost match up completely with another headphone. Yet one is considered crap and the other brilliant.


----------



## treecloud (Jun 1, 2018)

dwinnert said:


> Yeah I did read about his background. Still does not matter to me. He is still a guy with opinions and my opinion differs from his.
> 
> I have been into hi-fi since the late 70's and tests only mean so much. I have had so many actual listening sessions that contradicted scientific tests that I just trust what I like over any test. I had a Counterpoint SA-7 that feed a Sumo Polaris and Magnepans in the mid 80's that tested like crap....yet, everyone that heard my setup thought it sounded fantastic. Many people quote a graph and are like, "see that thing sucks", when the graph only tells you a portion of the story. Look at all the headphones that have charts that almost match up completely with another headphone. Yet one is considered crap and the other brilliant.



Well it sounds like we're on the same page then...repeating an earlier point:

"...how measurable distortions can be "euphonic", is a topic onto itself. I could name sevveral right now, but I don't want to drag this thread off the lovely Schiit Magni 3, and desirable ancillaries. I'll just say this, much of what we think of as high end audio is based on measured distortions that are pleasurable to the ear/brain for various reasons."

BTW I've been into audio since 1965, but I won't hold your inexperience against you 

Now perhaps we can get back on topic...


----------



## BubbaJay

I have no idea why I'm getting some low humming interference noises from my Magni 3.  It comes and goes and I've tried everything I can think of to troubleshoot the problem but nothing works.  Now on low gain its fine with no interference no matter how loud I go on the volume so I've just been using that since my most demanding headphone is the HD700 and on low gain I still don't go past halfway on the volume.  Luckily on low gain I don't hear a difference in SQ but if I get a new planar hp which I'm looking into I'll need high gain.  Has anyone else dealt with this problem, I'm guessing I should contact Schiit and see about getting it fixed under the warranty.


----------



## dwinnert

BubbaJay said:


> I have no idea why I'm getting some low humming interference noises from my Magni 3.  It comes and goes and I've tried everything I can think of to troubleshoot the problem but nothing works.  Now on low gain its fine with no interference no matter how loud I go on the volume so I've just been using that since my most demanding headphone is the HD700 and on low gain I still don't go past halfway on the volume.  Luckily on low gain I don't hear a difference in SQ but if I get a new planar hp which I'm looking into I'll need high gain.  Has anyone else dealt with this problem, I'm guessing I should contact Schiit and see about getting it fixed under the warranty.



Are you using the Modi listed in your sig? Try different cables?

My Rega RP3 turntable developed a low hum and it turned out to be the RCA cable. Worked for years without issue....I think corrosion developed inside one of the connectors. Replacing it solved the issue.


----------



## BubbaJay

Yeah, I'm using the Mimby and I tried different cables.  It's weird because it comes and goes without warning.  Like now it fine and sounds great so it has to be something interfering with it from time to time and I just don't know what it could be.  I guess it's just something I'm going to have to live with, at least I can switch to low gain when it does with no loss of audio quality because of how powerful the Magni 3 is.


----------



## dwinnert

BubbaJay said:


> Yeah, I'm using the Mimby and I tried different cables.  It's weird because it comes and goes without warning.  Like now it fine and sounds great so it has to be something interfering with it from time to time and I just don't know what it could be.  I guess it's just something I'm going to have to live with, at least I can switch to low gain when it does with no loss of audio quality because of how powerful the Magni 3 is.



I forgot about this....The 1/4" adapter that came with my M1060's was junk and it caused random hum in my Magni 3. I switched it out with another and all was fine.

Other than that, I have no idea. But I am sure Schiit can get it sorted out.


----------



## CombatCupcake

So I just got the Magni 3. Had it connected to my phone (HTC Android), and using Fostex TH-X00. I had to set the volume all the way to max to get anything close to a decent listening level, but still too low. If I put gain to hi, then I can get a good level at around 2'o'clock or so.  How is it possible with 25ohm headphones?? I was using an SMSL SaPII before, which has 1/2 the power, and I would go to 12'o'clock max. 
I talked to Schiit and they sent me a new one, but its exactly the same. 
I then took it home to try with my AKG k7xx, 62ohm. Basically the same thing. Then I tried connected from my Micca Origen+ and I had to put the volume on that to max to improve over from my phone.  

Does anyone know what the deal with this is? I was expecting to have to barely touch the volume on the Magni for either of these headphones. Let alone having to use a preamp volume to get more boost.


----------



## wingsounds13

Its a simple answer, really.  It's not just a matter of power, but also of gain.  The SMSL obviously is designed with higher gain to get max volume out of sources that have low output voltage.  You proved the gain issue by switching your Magni to high gain and getting high volume out of it.  If this level works for you, then you're done, just listen and have fun. 

Also: low impedance does not equal high sensitivity.  Just because a headphone has a low impedance does not mean that it will get loud at low volume settings.  Sensitivity is a separate spec.  Headphones can range from around 90dB/1mw for ones like planars to 125dB/1mw for IEMs.  

Another factor in this equation is that the Magni volume control has a different taper than most in order to allow a better volume control range for high sensitivity headphones and IEMs.  It is slower to ramp up the volume at lower levels.  This means that it will also have to be turned farther up to achieve a high output level on less efficient 'phones.

J.P.



CombatCupcake said:


> So I just got the Magni 3. Had it connected to my phone (HTC Android), and using Fostex TH-X00. I had to set the volume all the way to max to get anything close to a decent listening level, but still too low. If I put gain to hi, then I can get a good level at around 2'o'clock or so.  How is it possible with 25ohm headphones?? I was using an SMSL SaPII before, which has 1/2 the power, and I would go to 12'o'clock max.
> [...]
> Does anyone know what the deal with this is? I was expecting to have to barely touch the volume on the Magni for either of these headphones. Let alone having to use a preamp volume to get more boost.


----------



## wingsounds13 (Jun 10, 2018)

Another thought on this issue: many people appear to think that the vo!ume knob is a _power_ control, that turning the knob to the max will automatically deliver the max power of the amp.  In reality, the volume knob is a gain control knob, increasing the voltage gain of the unit as the knob is turned.  The resulting output voltage is dependent on the input level and as well as the gain of the unit (basic amount of gain designed into the amp + the amount of gain selected by the volume control), the output power is a product of the output voltage and the impedance of the output transducer (headphone) and the volume is a product of the output _power_ and the sensitivity of the transducer.  There are numerous factors related to how loud an amp will make any given set of headphones (or speakers) play.

J.P.


----------



## tafens

wingsounds13 said:


> Another thought on this issue: many people appear to think that the vo!ume knob is a _power_ control, that turning the knob to the max will automatically deliver the max power of the amp.  In reality, the volume knob is a gain control knob, increasing the voltage gain of the unit as the knob is turned.



Before reading up on this, I too basically thought that the volume control was like that, or rather that it would be directly connected to the output of an amp and control the volume by limiting the power the amp could output. _In fact, this is not how it works at all._

The volume pot is actually connected to the input of the amp (in well designed amps anyway) and acts as a voltage divider. Turning the pot actually controls the amplitude (or volume) of the input signal. The amp itself always operates att full power. The volume control is also not the same as a gain control, which the Magni has a separate switch for on the back.


----------



## wingsounds13

It is true that in most designs the volume pot does not control the gain value of the gain stage itself, however, this voltage divider does ultimately control the overall gain value of the unit from input to output.  For most purposes, this is how I think about it, as few of us can access the individual stages within the box.  The gain value listed in the specs is just that of the unit with the volume control set to maximum and in normal operation the overall value is less than this (and never more), as set by the volume control .

Yes, the various gain stages and buffers always work at their maximum level, and the ultimate result is the sum of the input level, the overall gain of the box (including the setting of the volume control), the drive capabilities of the output stage and the impedance of the load.  

J.P.


----------



## CombatCupcake

So then its operating as normal?  I bought it cause I'll be getting HD650's, so figured if it was struggling with the Fostex then something must be up. So it would essentially scale up, rather than just be a level on the volume?



wingsounds13 said:


> Its a simple answer, really.  It's not just a matter of power, but also of gain.  The SMSL obviously is designed with higher gain to get max volume out of sources that have low output voltage.  You proved the gain issue by switching your Magni to high gain and getting high volume out of it.  If this level works for you, then you're done, just listen and have fun.
> 
> Also: low impedance does not equal high sensitivity.  Just because a headphone has a low impedance does not mean that it will get loud at low volume settings.  Sensitivity is a separate spec.  Headphones can range from around 90dB/1mw for ones like planars to 125dB/1mw for IEMs.
> 
> ...


----------



## wingsounds13 (Jun 11, 2018)

Your Magni 3 is operating normally and as designed.  Most reports suggest that it scales very well with better sources as well as better headphones.  It should drive the HD 650s quite well.  Just understand that you cannot compare two amps based on the position of their volume control knob.  As long as they can play more than loud enough with no audible evidence of stress then they should be fine for your purposes. 

And before anyone asks, no, I don't have a Magni 3, but am still considering getting one to play with.  It is a very good littl amp for very little money.

J.P.


----------



## CombatCupcake

It wasnt based so much on the position of the volume knob, more about the idea that you shouldnt keep at amp at/near max. 



wingsounds13 said:


> Your Magni 3 is operating normally and as designed.  Most reports suggest that it scales very well with better sources as well as better headphones.  It should drive the HD 650s quite well.  Just understand that you cannot compare two amps based on the position of their volume control knob.  As long as they can play more than loud enough with no audible evidence of stress then they should be fine for your purposes.
> 
> And before anyone asks, no, I don't have a Magni 3, but am still considering getting one to play with.  It is a very good littl amp for very little money.
> 
> J.P.


----------



## sennsay

CombatCupcake said:


> So I just got the Magni 3. Had it connected to my phone (HTC Android), and using Fostex TH-X00. I had to set the volume all the way to max to get anything close to a decent listening level, but still too low. If I put gain to hi, then I can get a good level at around 2'o'clock or so.  How is it possible with 25ohm headphones?? I was using an SMSL SaPII before, which has 1/2 the power, and I would go to 12'o'clock max.
> I talked to Schiit and they sent me a new one, but its exactly the same.
> I then took it home to try with my AKG k7xx, 62ohm. Basically the same thing. Then I tried connected from my Micca Origen+ and I had to put the volume on that to max to improve over from my phone.
> 
> Does anyone know what the deal with this is? I was expecting to have to barely touch the volume on the Magni for either of these headphones. Let alone having to use a preamp volume to get more boost.


I could be wrong, but I also suspect that the output voltage from the phone is way down on 2V, not much for the Magni 3 to play with. I use 600 ohm headphones almost all the time and get loads of volume to play with via the Modi Multibit, anything from 11- 2:30/3PM is plenty of volume. This is with high gain. Even my HE400S at 22 ohms perform better with high gain, although they are not my preferred listening companions in this set-up.


----------



## ScOgLiO (Jun 11, 2018)

sennsay said:


> I could be wrong, but I also suspect that the output voltage from the phone is way down on 2V, not much for the Magni 3 to play with. I use 600 ohm headphones almost all the time and get loads of volume to play with via the Modi Multibit, anything from 11- 2:30/3PM is plenty of volume. This is with high gain. Even my HE400S at 22 ohms perform better with high gain, although they are not my preferred listening companions in this set-up.



Exactly my thought, especially since I find that combination (with HD600, though) plently loud at 9 o'clock levels, at low gain. Bear in mind that I use headphones at night only, so I'm talking about a very quiet environment, but still...


----------



## RickB

When I was using a Magni 3, I used it with a Mimby (a 2V source) and an HD650. The volume was usually around 9 o'clock and the amp on low gain. So these reports (and there have been quite a few) that it doesn't get loud enough are very puzzling.


----------



## crazychile

CombatCupcake said:


> So then its operating as normal?  I bought it cause I'll be getting HD650's, so figured if it was struggling with the Fostex then something must be up. So it would essentially scale up, rather than just be a level on the volume?



Your current source doesn't have enough output. That is the problem.
I have TH-X00 and HD-650s and the Magni 3 has plenty of output even on low gain.

I run my office system from an android phone or ipad to whatever Schiit DAC I have on hand (Modi or Bimby) and then to the Magni 3. It's a fantastic cheap system.

I think your next step should be to add a real DAC. At least a Modi. You can usually find these B Stock on the Schiit site. You will them be feeding your low level source to the DAC which will put out a legitimate 2V to the amp. Life will be good.


----------



## tafens

RickB said:


> When I was using a Magni 3, I used it with a Mimby (a 2V source) and an HD650. The volume was usually around 9 o'clock and the amp on low gain. So these reports (and there have been quite a few) that it doesn't get loud enough are very puzzling.



Same here, using Magni3 with ModiMB at work (office landscape, so not always all that quiet) but I still seldom have the volume past 9 o’clock as that is plenty loud for me, more is too loud. Currently using HD650 (actually HD6XX) headphone.


----------



## wingsounds13

CombatCupcake said:


> It wasnt based so much on the position of the volume knob, more about the idea that you shouldnt keep at amp at/near max.



This would only be of significance if the amp were operating near its maximum power capacity.  While a 25 ohm headphone could take it close to its limits, your ears or the headphones themselves would almost certainly fail long before the amp sustained any damage.  If the input level is low then it would do no harm to operate the Magni at high gain with the volume knob at max.  Since it is a class AB amp, one test could be to feel it and see if it is getting substantially hotter than it is when running at low volume.  

J.P.


----------



## sennsay

wingsounds13 said:


> This would only be of significance if the amp were operating near its maximum power capacity.  While a 25 ohm headphone could take it close to its limits, your ears or the headphones themselves would almost certainly fail long before the amp sustained any damage.  If the input level is low then it would do no harm to operate the Magni at high gain with the volume knob at max.  Since it is a class AB amp, one test could be to feel it and see if it is getting substantially hotter than it is when running at low volume.
> 
> J.P.


It'll be fine, I often run my Magni 3 at 2-3:30 on some tracks with the 600 ohm Ref1s and the amp barely gets that warm, just midday warm as per usual. The Mimby runs warmer. It's a brilliant little amp! Even more so as the Mimby/M3 combo, outrageously musical.


----------



## techboy

The Magni 3 is a fantastic amp with a few flaws which are deal breakers and the reason for it not being worth more than what it’s sold for. 

1. Claustrophically ring sound stage. 

2. Not as smooth compared to other amps like the Ember or MCTH. Sounds harsh compared to them. Of course they’re not at the same price point. 

3. The volume doesn’t go loud enough to be used with Sonarworks with a HD 650. It’s okay but not too much range available. 

Apart from the above flaws, it’s a detailed and very clear amp. 

If Schiit could address the above then no doubt it would be worth at least 3-5x what it’s selling for now. 

But for now I’d probably get a Vali 2 or Starlight over the Ember so it really ain’t worth more than USD 100-150.


----------



## dwinnert

techboy said:


> The Magni 3 is a fantastic amp with a few flaws which are deal breakers and the reason for it not being worth more than what it’s sold for.
> 
> 1. Claustrophically ring sound stage.
> 
> ...



What is Sonarworks doing that it would reduce volume so much. I borrowed some HD650's and there is no way volume is lacking....I would blow my ears out on full volume with the Magni 3.


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## riffrafff (Jun 13, 2018)

I have to assume that the Sonarworks output level is way lower than the 2Vrms that the Magni (and most other amps) expect.    My 6xx headphones play fine through the Magni 3.  And fine through the Vali 2, which has less output power.  

Edit:  Wait, is Sonarworks a software package?  Then sounds like your sound card is the issue.


----------



## Tuneslover

techboy said:


> But for now I’d probably get a Vali 2 or Starlight over the Ember so it really ain’t worth more than USD 100-150.



I haven't heard the Starlight but I owned the Vali 2 for a couple of years but sold it after hearing the superior Ember.


----------



## sennsay

techboy said:


> The Magni 3 is a fantastic amp with a few flaws which are deal breakers and the reason for it not being worth more than what it’s sold for.
> 
> 1. Claustrophically ring sound stage.
> 
> ...


Mm, not my experience at all. Your experience is appreciated, although it seems that you have not got anything like the best out of the Magni 3. I use 600 ohm Senn HD540 Ref1s and have plenty of volume and excellent volume control range, anything from 11 0'clock to 3pm and more, depending on the recording level. Absolutely no harshness at all with those headphones unless the recording is truly dreadful and even then I can easily hear the humanity behind the obviously tragic recording. The Ref1s are the most immersive, relaxing and natural sounding headphones in all of my collection, with a wonderful 3D soundstage that defies the boundaries of head and cans, no soundstage constriction even worth mentioning, with live shows I'm sitting in the audience. They eat the HD6xx here, go far deeper in the bass and don't have that lower treble peak.The Mimby is a perfect partner for the Magni 3 in my system. I've heard far too many expensive systems over the years that don't even come close to what I'm experiencing with this pairing, it is quite the example to me of the whole being much greater than the sum of it's parts. The Schiit pairing being easily worth the addition of the pure silver ICs.


----------



## riffrafff

sennsay said:


> the pure silver ICs.



Ah.  Took me a second.  I assume you mean Inter-Connects, not Integrated Circuits, yes?


----------



## sennsay

riffrafff said:


> Ah.  Took me a second.  I assume you mean Inter-Connects, not Integrated Circuits, yes?


 Yes. WELL worth the expense .... although I've owned them for years and used to use them in my main lounge system. Many folks here probably wouldn't even consider going there, but the gear will indeed show the results from a wide clean window between Mimby and M3.


----------



## riffrafff

sennsay said:


> Yes. WELL worth the expense .... although I've owned them for years and used to use them in my main lounge system. Many folks here probably wouldn't even consider going there, but the gear will indeed show the results from a wide clean window between Mimby and M3.



Okay, just stop it.  My wallet hasn't yet even recovered from the last two pairs of headphones.   *Sigh*


----------



## sennsay

riffrafff said:


> Okay, just stop it.  My wallet hasn't yet even recovered from the last two pairs of headphones.   *Sigh*


Nor mine from the new Yamaha HS8 monitors for the lounge system (down-sizing!) and the R2R .... and I'm already thinking about building a valve preamp again ....


----------



## crazychile

techboy said:


> The Magni 3 is a fantastic amp with a few flaws which are deal breakers and the reason for it not being worth more than what it’s sold for.
> 
> 1. Claustrophically ring sound stage.
> 
> ...



1. Not as good of a headstage as some more expensive amps, but does very well at digging out microdetails without serious sonic abnormalities. 
2. I also own a MCTH and would agree that the Magni 3 is not as smooth. The MCTH also doesn't work as well as the Magni 3 with every headphone I've tried. I like the Magni 3 better when I choose to use the TH-X00s.
3. Problem may lie more with Sonarworks than with the Magni 3. I get plenty of volume on HD-650s. Normally it never gets used with anything besides the low gain setting. If the Magni 3 doesn't have enough power for you then the MCTH would be a bigger problem.

As much as people rave about the Magni 3, the detractors always seem to focus on how it doesn't fare as well compared to amps that are 2-3x the price. People forget that this is a $99 amp, and at that price range it is pretty remarkable.


----------



## ScOgLiO

crazychile said:


> As much as people rave about the Magni 3, the detractors always seem to focus on how it doesn't fare as well compared to amps that are 2-3x the price. People forget that this is a $99 amp, and at that price range it is pretty remarkable.



That's what I was thinking, as well.
As Jason Stoddard himself would say, I think, the Magni 3 could be better in a few deparments, by changing this and that...but then it wouldn't be a Magni 3 anymore and it wouldn't be $99!

Now, I admittedly don't have much of an experience with different amps (given I simply haven't tested many), but I have read wonders about it from people who do and I surely enjoy my Schiit mini-stack. The general consensus is that this is a truly awesome amp for the price and that it actually punches above its weight, so you surely won't see many complaints from my end...


----------



## anorphirith

gr8soundz said:


> Has anyone heard both the Magni 3 and the Gilmore Lite mk2?
> 
> Both are similar in size, spec but I'm wondering if the Gilmore is really worth 5x the price?



interested as well


----------



## sennsay (Jun 23, 2018)

After an amazing night of revelations a couple of evenings ago, I will not be looking for another amp for the Ref1s anytime soon!
 I'd had the new a-gd R2R well warmed up all day and after an evening of movies etc, I went into headphone mode, jacking in the HD250s and HD6xx, music was the superb recording by Willie Nelson & Wynton Marsalis called "Two Men With The Blues", recorded live at Carnegie Hall. I enjoyed the rhythms from the HD250, the evenness of the mids and top end and the clarity and detail that came with it ... there was also the slightly boosted mid bass which I eventually grow tired of, as it distracts me from dissolving into the music. The HD6xx ... good but also a bit meh, quite fun and relatively tuneful, forward mids, fairly open though the soundstage is NOT as wide as the HD250s. All quite good in various ways but not riveting. Time to turn to the Mimby/Magni 3 and the Ref 1s, all warmed up for hours previously and ready to go. A brief revisiting led to only 10-15 minutes with the 250s & 6xx. The HD6xx astonished me yet again with an instant V-shaped s/stage, maybe 90-100 degrees max, with some small ambient information out to the sides, quite stark and I was a bit taken aback at how obvious it was.
Ref1s go on my head and it's instant bliss, actually shockingly so in comparison to the other two cans. Total immersion is the only way I can describe it. Whenever I go back to the HD540s after a day or two away from them, I'm always delighted at the instant involvement and relaxation at the same time.
The Nelson/Marsalis album was a revelation, why can't the other headphones do this! Gone was any semblance of hifi, truncated soundstage, limiting bandwidth and lack of linearity. Just the usual vanishing act by the gear and the always delightful 3D soundstage, there's no V-shape here! Height, depth, width, well outside around and in front of my head. The absolute ultra fine focus may not be there as with the very best headphones, at vast sums of cash more in spending, but what the Ref1s do so well they do incredibly well and I'll take that over any other compromises and detail at the expense of pure balance any day ... or night.
 Imagine, if you will, the wooden stage in the Carnegie Hall, assembled musicians, Willie Nelson, Wynton Marsalis, Mickey Rafael on harmonica, Walter Blanding on sax, Dan Nimmer on piano, Carlos Enriques on bass and Ali Jackson on the drum kit. The audience stretches from far left to far right and is tiered in height by the sound of it. The wooden floor beneath the double bass and drum kit can easily be heard. What the Ref1s can do brilliantly and which eludes the others, is to layer the musicians like one of those 3D pictures which look flat and 2D until you defocus your eyes a tad and another picture layers itself in front of you in 3D, with clear separation between the layers. It's quite remarkable to hear, it's completely relaxing and my mind's eye can just roam around the soundstage, taking in the whole soundscape or focusing in on some details. Each instrument has it's own ambient space and I find it amusingly uncanny how I can hear Willie's voice centre and present right in my head space, yet a very slight shift back and the drummer, who is clearly well behind Willie on the stage, is playing a rhythm where his sticks and the drums skins have their own ambient space. As well, each strike of the sticks on the skins has it's own variable dynamics, some soft and the next one much firmer with an accompanying change in ambience that spreads out from the skin in a different way than a softer stroke. Same for brush strokes, the High Hat and kick drum. Meantime, the same thing is happening to vocals, sax and trumpet solos, which are loud at times, yet not edgy and pushing forward as with the HD6xx. They get louder and more dynamic, yes, but don't change their place on the soundstage and sound like the real thing. I grew up with pianos, cornets, trumpets, violins and other instruments constantly playing in our household, as my mum was a piano teacher and accompanist for many other musicians.
 All I've just described goes the same way for the fabulous Rickie Lee Jones live concert, Naked Songs: Live and Acoustic, I'm sitting _IN_ the audience, very close to Ricki and her piano and guitar, surrounded by people in rapture at this stunning performance. No matter how loud her voice gets ...  and she has quite some dynamic range! ... it does not change from being that of a  flesh and blood female vocalist, no edge, harshness or peaky forwardness. There are some members of the audience that cough very gently at times from far out in front of me, totally pinpointed in space, there's literally air between my position and the coughee. The sense of being there is so realistic that I have no need to question it, it's a given. I just AM.
 So what leaves me in awe, is that the Mimby and Magni 3, totalling a mere $600AUS and connected with admittedly some very fine pure silver ICs (they were around $420+NZ some years ago), with a 29 year old pair of slightly upgraded headphones that can transport me so thoroughly into a different world every time I join them for an evening session.
 I don't pine for Utopias or exy Audeze models, as soon as those Ref1s go on my head, I'm relaxed even while dancing, moving, singing, enraptured, involved and immersed in new worlds of music. For me, THAT's what our whole wonderful Head-Fi universe is about, sharing it with others and if possible, helping others to come to whatever level of joy they want from their own experiences and hearing how they got there themselves.


----------



## rutter

crazychile said:


> 3. Problem may lie more with Sonarworks than with the Magni 3. I get plenty of volume on HD-650s. Normally it never gets used with anything besides the low gain setting. If the Magni 3 doesn't have enough power for you then the MCTH would be a bigger problem.



No, the problem would lie with the Magni 3. Sonarworks applies equalization and then has an option to lower the volume at some point to avoid clipping or distortion, which is normally done with equalization. The amp then has to compensate. Sonarworks is just as great a value at its price and I might argue a much greater value than the Magni 3, so the amp has to compensate (even though Sonarworks should be replicable for free). If the Magni 3 doesn't actually go loud enough, which surprises me frankly, then it might just not be the proper fit although it does appear to have exceptional power too. Overall it does appear to be excellent value for the money, but sennsay sounds like he or she is describing something that costs 10 times as much, with which I would disagree. Nonetheless, perhaps that's a genuine impression if a little embellished. It's good enough to say it's excellent value, and it's something you can be satisfied with.


----------



## UNOE

sennsay said:


> That's an excellent chart, thanks for that! Handy to keep on file. It also explains a lot re my Magni 3 and the fact that there is little output difference between my 300 ohm HD6XX and the 600 ohm HD540 Ref 1s, on some albums the volume control is almost set to the same level and with others the difference might be just 12-12:30 and 1:30-2 o'clock. I think that despite the higher impedance, the Ref1s are an easier overall load, the impedance not swinging so much with frequency as the HD650/6XX are well known for. The chart shows only 300mV difference of output voltage between 300 and 600 ohms. Interesting.


Mom


Chein said:


> You mean this one?


What a great chart.


----------



## Rhamnetin

gr8soundz said:


> Has anyone heard both the Magni 3 and the Gilmore Lite mk2?
> 
> Both are similar in size, spec but I'm wondering if the Gilmore is really worth 5x the price?



They're not in the same league. The Gilmore Lite Mk2 is full class A, it's a Dynalo, one of the best headphone amp circuits ever made. The only knock against it is that it uses a proprietary wall wart power supply, but the amp will still outclass a Schiit Lyr 3 and all the schiits below it in transparency and naturalness. You can get a used but great condition Dynalo from Mjolnir-Audio right now for $510, and it doesn't use a wall wart.

https://mjolnir-audio.com/used-amplifiers/


----------



## riffrafff

rutter said:


> No, the problem would lie with the Magni 3. Sonarworks applies equalization and then has an option to lower the volume at some point to avoid clipping or distortion, which is normally done with equalization. The amp then has to compensate. Sonarworks is just as great a value at its price and I might argue a much greater value than the Magni 3, so the amp has to compensate (even though Sonarworks should be replicable for free). If the Magni 3 doesn't actually go loud enough, which surprises me frankly, then it might just not be the proper fit although it does appear to have exceptional power too. Overall it does appear to be excellent value for the money, but sennsay sounds like he or she is describing something that costs 10 times as much, with which I would disagree. Nonetheless, perhaps that's a genuine impression if a little embellished. It's good enough to say it's excellent value, and it's something you can be satisfied with.



I drove my Magni 3 with a Cayin N3 as a source, line-out, which for the N3 is 1Vrms.  The Magni 3 handled it fine, driving Grados,  a pair of Philips SHP9500S, and HD 6xx.  It's now being fed by a mimby (2Vrms), and sure, the mimby is louder (at the same volume setting), but I never felt the Magni 3 with the N3 was really lacking, even with the N3's "low" output voltage.


----------



## rutter

What Sonarworks does if you select lower volume to avoid clipping is lower the volume I suppose it is by the db of the biggest boost of the equalization. In effect, what I ended up doing with my LCD-X and Jotunheim was go from low gain to high gain to compensate. That's one of the easiest headphones to drive I think and on the Jot I could listen to it at high gain and nearly 12 o'clock. An HE400i, already on high gain, I needed to turn so far up I crossed into a range where there was background noise. If the HD650 is harder to drive I could perhaps see how the person may have pushed up against the limit. The thing is single-ended the Magni 3 is somewhat more powerful than the Jotunheim. I don't think I bothered trying the Magni 3 with Sonarworks and the HE400i.


----------



## riffrafff

That might be the difference; the N3 automagically lowers the volume (by 6 dB, I think?) when you switch from flat to any EQ.  However, its EQ doesn't function in line-out mode (trying to keep it bit-perfect as a transport).  I had assumed Sonarworks did the same (again, I am _totally_ unfamiliar with Sonarworks).   Ah, well.


----------



## rutter

Well, for one, how much the volume is lowered by is dependent on the specific equalization. You pay around $100 for this because it's no generic equalization. It's a flattening of each supported headphone. I think they tested a bunch of each to come up with a frequency response graph, and you can even send in your own for an individual eq but that's an extra $100 and it appears unnecessary but who knows. With the LCD-X a number of us were impressed, including myself. I found the value to be terrific and a must. Might depend on the headphone model.


----------



## crazychile

rutter said:


> No, the problem would lie with the Magni 3. Sonarworks applies equalization and then has an option to lower the volume at some point to avoid clipping or distortion, which is normally done with equalization. The amp then has to compensate. Sonarworks is just as great a value at its price and I might argue a much greater value than the Magni 3, so the amp has to compensate (even though Sonarworks should be replicable for free). If the Magni 3 doesn't actually go loud enough, which surprises me frankly, then it might just not be the proper fit although it does appear to have exceptional power too. Overall it does appear to be excellent value for the money, but sennsay sounds like he or she is describing something that costs 10 times as much, with which I would disagree. Nonetheless, perhaps that's a genuine impression if a little embellished. It's good enough to say it's excellent value, and it's something you can be satisfied with.



The Magni 3 absolutely has more than enough power for HD-650s.
{Either the Magni 3 is defective
OR
There is a problem somewhere else in the chain
ELSE
User error};


----------



## dwinnert

crazychile said:


> The Magni 3 absolutely has more than enough power for HD-650s.
> {Either the Magni 3 is defective
> OR
> There is a problem somewhere else in the chain
> ...



I agree....I have run what people say are hard to drive headphones and my Magni 3 can drive them louder then I could ever stand....and that is around 60%. BTW, I run all my program and Win 10 system volumes at 100%.


----------



## crazychile

dwinnert said:


> I agree....I have run what people say are hard to drive headphones and my Magni 3 can drive them louder then I could ever stand....and that is around 60%. BTW, I run all my program and Win 10 system volumes at 100%.



Yep. I like it LOUD every once in a while, but I've run the Magni 3 with a variety of headphones and it stays on low gain, below 10 o'clock on the dial, 98% of the time.


----------



## rutter

You must be using generic earbuds if you're staying below 10 o'clock on low gain. Read what the context is too.


----------



## crazychile

rutter said:


> You must be using generic earbuds if you're staying below 10 o'clock on low gain. Read what the context is too.



2 months here and you're at over 500 posts. You should post less and read more.


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## rids57

I'm currently listening to my Mimby and Magni 3 on my DT1990's and the volume is about 9 o'clock on low gain - more than loud enough. When Using my HD650s I may have to push it up to 10 o'clock, also on low gain.


----------



## rutter

How hard is the HD650 to drive in comparison to the HE400i? And again, the context here is using Sonarworks equalization and I presume reduce volume to avoid clipping. I was definitely on the afternoon side on high gain with the HE400i in the context under consideration.


----------



## rids57

the HE400i is easier to drive than the HD650, it sits around 9 o'clock on the volume control on low gain. Sonarworks must be reducing the digital input dramatically to cause the DAC to output such a low signal to the amp. The problem's not with the amp, it's with the signal going into the DAC.


----------



## rutter

Again, lower volume to reduce clipping when equalizing. Not sure why I have to repeat things ten times in this thread. When that option isn't used the output is just fine and how the option works seems straightforward as well, i.e. Sonarworks isn't the problem. Apparently this particular amp is liable to run out of juice with it depending on the headphone. What confuses me is that I think it's somewhat more powerful than the Jot single-ended, although I didn't sit down to do a careful comparison.


----------



## rids57 (Jun 24, 2018)

Well you could just let it go and admit that the vast majority of people NOT using Sonarworks are not having a problem


----------



## rutter

That the vast majority of people don't use Sonarworks and hence won't run into this potential issue goes without saying (although if you're trying to actually equalize a headphone you might run into it). The extent of the poster's claim was that if you are using Sonarworks depending on the headphone you might be pushing how much volume the Magni 3 can output.


----------



## RickB

I'm long since convinced that young people are half-deaf, because I've never used a Schiit headphone amp where the volume knob wasn't at 9-10 o'clock on low gain, with 300 ohm Sennheiser's.


----------



## wingsounds13

I love the logic:

When you don't use Sonarworks everything is just fine.
When you do use Sonarworks there is a problem.
Therefore...  There is no problem with Sonarworks and there _is_ a problem with the Magni 3.  Riiiiiight..  Gotcha.  Makes perfect sense.

On the other hand, there have been posts elsewhere about overloading the Magni front end with a hot signal causing low output.  That bit of detective work does make sense after you read through what he did. 

J.P.


----------



## rutter

A lot of thick folks in this thread. In my experience Sonarworks is tremendous value when it comes to sound improvement. There is nothing wrong with the decrease in volume that is advisable when using its equalization. All the poster claimed was that with Sonarworks and a certain headphone the Magni 3 might not output sufficient volume. Grasp that claim for what it is and get a grip, please.


----------



## Tuneslover

I have to say that this topic makes the phrase "beating a dead horse" clear.


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## rutter (Jun 24, 2018)

It's more like two dead horses that refuse to pass on.  Anyway, if you're on a budget the Magni 3 at $100 is an excellent choice. I think I can agree with Schiit that it can leave you satisfied. I'll take a Modi 2 and Magni 3 for $200 over an iFi Micro Black Label or a Chord Mojo for $600-$550, and from what I read it stacks very well against other desktop choices.


----------



## DavidA

rutter said:


> It's more like two dead horses that refuse to pass on.  Anyway, if you're on a budget the Magni 3 at $100 is an excellent choice. I think I can agree with Schiit that it can leave you satisfied. I'll take a Modi 2 and Magni 3 for $200 over an iFi Micro Black Label or a Chord Mojo for $600-$550, and from what I read it stacks very well against other desktop choices.


I think the choice between the Modi2uber or Modi MB + Magni3 or the Mojo or iFi Black is also dependent on the headphones that one has since some headphones sound better with certain amps and its also a personal preference.


----------



## eruditass (Jul 15, 2018)

Does anyone get a low frequency hum? It does waver in amplitude and harmonics over time, but mostly remains lower frequency.  My Ety ER4P picks it up.  EDIT: also hear it on all of my headphones (even the 2016 LCD2F and DT880 on high gain)

It's not the typical noise floor that sounds like white noise and changes with the potentiometer.  It is amplified by the gain switch.

Could this be ground loop? I did try switching to a different wall socket from everything else and it remained.

My SOHA II in either wall socket does not have this issue (but does have a higher white noise floor).

Source is Laptop -USB-> E-MU 0404 (has it's own power supply) -> Amp


----------



## mabuk

Bought a SMSL M6 dac/amp for my old Sennheiser HD600's a few years ago and it was a massive improvement over what I'd been using previously. It did become a little fatiguing to listen to at the levels I wanted - not particularly loud, overall good value. Wanted something with analogue inputs so I could plug other stuff into it and decided to go with the Magni 3. Could immediately play at decent levels without it sounding annoying, was obviously more pleasurable to listen to.

Then bought a Topping D30 to use as a source to free up the smsl to be plugged in elsewhere. Couldn't tell any difference between the topping and the smsl dac when plugged into the magni, thankfully.


----------



## eldus (Jul 11, 2018)

DoomzDayz said:


> Does anyone get a low frequency hum when connecting high sensitivity headphones? It does waver in amplitude and harmonics over time, but mostly remains lower frequency.  My Ety ER4P sometimes picks it up, but my 108 dB IEMs and earbuds makes it always noticeable, especially on high gain.
> 
> It's not the typical noise floor that sounds like white noise and changes with the potentiometer.  It is amplified by the gain switch.
> 
> ...



  Yes, I do as well. Even when nothing is connected to it; The pot does nothing to change the buzz and hum. Old house, '54. I'm guessing its dirty power. sometimes its non existent. I've tried every outlet in the house while turning off the A/C. Interestingly enough, When I put my Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) into battery backup mode (by unplugging it) its absolutely fine, no noise (not sustainable in the long run obv). So in my case, its the unit not liking the power. My Kenwood receiver has no issue with hum on the same outlet and thus power source.

Or maybe the power supply is picky/cheap. idk if its safe to try out different wall warts


----------



## riffrafff

eldus said:


> Yes, I do as well. Even when nothing is connected to it; The pot does nothing to change the buzz and hum. Old house, '54. I'm guessing its dirty power. sometimes its non existent. I've tried every outlet in the house while turning off the A/C. Interestingly enough, When I put my Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) into battery backup mode (by unplugging it) its absolutely fine, no noise (not sustainable in the long run obv). So in my case, its the unit not liking the power. My Kenwood receiver has no issue with hum on the same outlet and thus power source.
> 
> Or maybe the power supply is picky/cheap. idk if its safe to try out different wall warts


A different wall-wart might be an issue, unless you know of a source of AC-output wall-warts (most are DC switching supplies).  All the rectification and filtering of the Magni 3 is on-board.  Maybe try a Cthulu? Or an AC isolator/conditioner?


----------



## ootrom

Whasis "Mimby" you folks keep speaking of?


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## JamminVMI

ootrom said:


> Whasis "Mimby" you folks keep speaking of?


Modi Multibit - leadt dear of the Schiit multibit DACs at (methinks) 250ish...


----------



## sennsay (Jul 12, 2018)

ootrom said:


> Whasis "Mimby" you folks keep speaking of?


Mimby, Bimby and Yggy are the three R2R (resistor to resistor) ladder DACs made by Schiit Audio; Modi Multibit, Bifrost Multibit and Yggdrasil.


----------



## joeexp

sennsay said:


> Mimby, Bimby and Yggy are the three R2R (resistor to resistor) ladder DACs made by Schiit Audio; Modi Multibit, Bifrost Multibit and Yggdrasil.



Not to forget the Gumby Multibit!


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## sennsay

joeexp said:


> Not to forget the Gumby Multibit!


Oh yeah  Four of them.


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## eruditass (Jul 15, 2018)

eldus said:


> Yes, I do as well. Even when nothing is connected to it; The pot does nothing to change the buzz and hum. Old house, '54. I'm guessing its dirty power. sometimes its non existent. I've tried every outlet in the house while turning off the A/C. Interestingly enough, When I put my Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) into battery backup mode (by unplugging it) its absolutely fine, no noise (not sustainable in the long run obv). So in my case, its the unit not liking the power. My Kenwood receiver has no issue with hum on the same outlet and thus power source.
> 
> Or maybe the power supply is picky/cheap. idk if its safe to try out different wall warts





riffrafff said:


> A different wall-wart might be an issue, unless you know of a source of AC-output wall-warts (most are DC switching supplies).  All the rectification and filtering of the Magni 3 is on-board.  Maybe try a Cthulu? Or an AC isolator/conditioner?



Looks like we just need to find one that outputs 14 VAC and at least 1.5 amps.  But yeah DC switching ones are much more common

So it's even audible the Q701 and DT880 on high gain (not normally needed unless listening to high dynamic range classical music or using heavy EQ).  I did find my laptop power brick (Dell M6800) going into my dock is causing most (but not all) of the noise: if I moved that to different breaker circuit (had to use an extension cord to another room) most of it goes away.  Tried 3 other of the same power bricks, same.  This house was built in the mid 80's.

Still, even with the louder noise, the SOHA II was dead silent, with similar output volumes.  So perhaps the Magni 3's rectification and filtering is not as robust as others and an AC isolator/conditioner would solve it, which may not be surprising given the price.  Though I'd like to know if some of ours are more sensitive than others before investing in one.

EDIT: also audible on my 2016 LCD-2Fs



BubbaJay said:


> Last night I started to hear a low hum coming from my M3 which I thought might be something wrong with it because it was only on high gain, which is all I use.  Then I thought it was some kind of interference because it just happened so suddenly and thankfully that's all it was.  It was something coming from my surge protector because when I plugged my Mimby and M3 into a different socket all was well.



Did you have hum on your Magni 2 or vali on the same surge protector?

Also what wall-warts do you have for which amps? XY-14001500AU? YP-088?


----------



## eldus

DoomzDayz said:


> Looks like we just need to find one that outputs 14 VAC and at least 1.5 amps.  But yeah DC switching ones are much more common
> 
> So it's even audible the Q701 and DT880 on high gain (not normally needed unless listening to high dynamic range classical music or using heavy EQ).  I did find my laptop power brick (Dell M6800) going into my dock is causing most (but not all) of the noise: if I moved that to different breaker circuit (had to use an extension cord to another room) most of it goes away.  Tried 3 other of the same power bricks, same.  This house was built in the mid 80's.
> 
> Still, even with the louder noise, the SOHA II was dead silent, with similar output volumes.  So perhaps the Magni 3's rectification and filtering is not as robust as others and an AC isolator/conditioner would solve it, which may not be surprising given the price.  Though I'd like to know if some of ours are more sensitive than others before investing in one.



Its odd because today, its been just fine. Totally silent on high or low gain.


----------



## riffrafff

Do you (or know anyone who does) have an oscilloscope?  Maybe there's noise visible on the line.


----------



## Bhargu

eldus said:


> Its odd because today, its been just fine. Totally silent on high or low gain.



As some one mentioned before, it might be another power adapter, connected in your home. Generally, as long as the root cause is inside your home you can do something about it. If not, you will need to spend some on power conditioners or filters or better power supplies (with built-in conditioning/filtering) for your audio equipment.


----------



## eruditass (Jul 13, 2018)

riffrafff said:


> Do you (or know anyone who does) have an oscilloscope?  Maybe there's noise visible on the line.





Bhargu said:


> As some one mentioned before, it might be another power adapter, connected in your home. Generally, as long as the root cause is inside your home you can do something about it. If not, you will need to spend some on power conditioners or filters or better power supplies (with built-in conditioning/filtering) for your audio equipment.



Of course there's noise on the power line, as there always is.  It's up to the device to have enough filtering to deal with it - other amps on the same power outlet have a nice black background.  My question is along the lines of, is my amp within spec or is the noise in my home greater than what it was designed for.  I suppose finding an oscilloscope would give me some numbers to give to them, but my laptop is a fairly common one.  Despite this issue, I'm certainly enjoying the Magni 3 especially for the price


----------



## tamio

Greetings,
Has anyone tried both Magni 3 and Darkvoice 336se? I am looking for an amp to drive my HD600 and would like to have several impressions about desk amps


----------



## DavidA

tamio said:


> Greetings,
> Has anyone tried both Magni 3 and Darkvoice 336se? I am looking for an amp to drive my HD600 and would like to have several impressions about desk amps


I've heard the HD600 on both Magni3 and 336SE but since it was months apart take my impression lightly and also it will depend the tubes used in the 336SE.
To me the HD600 benefits and sounds much better on the 336SE due to better synergy between the higher output impedance of the 336se and HD600 but if you have other headphones that are low impedance like a planar then the Magni3 would be a better choice if you don't want to have more than one amp.


----------



## FastAndClean

any comments on the distortions in the mids on high volume?
i have magni 2 and there is no distortion on full blast with vintage AKG s


----------



## dwinnert

riffrafff said:


> I finally got around to spraying some Deoxit into that pot.  Seems to have worked.  I gotta say, though, that's the first time I've heard noise from a new Alps pot.  'Course, it _is_ a low-end Alps pot (I noticed it has a plastic shaft, as opposed to the metal shaft shown in the pics on Schiit's web site).
> 
> EDIT:  Oops!  My mistake.  I was thinking of another device I had apart at the same time.  Senior moment, I guess.  My Magni 3 has a metal shaft.  D'oh!



Deoxit still working for you? Mine started getting scratchy and I contacted Schiit and they said to send it in for repair. Yet I read that people that sent it in had the problem return on the replacement.

I have used Deoxit many times, but I assume this would void any warranty.


----------



## Zbell

tamio said:


> Greetings,
> Has anyone tried both Magni 3 and Darkvoice 336se? I am looking for an amp to drive my HD600 and would like to have several impressions about desk amps


I've never used the 336se, but I do own the HD600s and both the Magni 3 and a Bottlehead Crack (similarly priced OTL amp).  While there's definitely nothing wrong at all with how they sound on the Magni 3, I prefer the Bottlehead Crack.  I'm not sure if I can definitively say the HD600s sound better on the Bottlehead Crack, but they pair so nicely together that it's an amazing combo.  However, the Magni 3 is certainly a more accurate amp, so if you want a perfectly neutral frequency response I'd go with the Schiit.  It's super clean and lean.  The OTL will add color and a fullness to the sound which I greatly prefer, but it's a matter of preference.


----------



## riffrafff

dwinnert said:


> Deoxit still working for you? Mine started getting scratchy and I contacted Schiit and they said to send it in for repair. Yet I read that people that sent it in had the problem return on the replacement.
> 
> I have used Deoxit many times, but I assume this would void any warranty.



Well, the Deoxit worked...for a while.  Then the scratchiness came back.  Sent it off to Schiit, it returned 13 days later, and so far, no more noise in the pot (it's been about five weeks).  I'm sure the potential exists for the noise to develop again; Alps makes good pots, overall, but these are their low tier offerings.  If the noise does come back, I may just replace it with a higher-quality pot.   On the plus side, nary a hiccup from my Vali 2.


----------



## Zbell (Jul 16, 2018)

Delete


----------



## dwinnert

riffrafff said:


> Well, the Deoxit worked...for a while.  Then the scratchiness came back.  Sent it off to Schiit, it returned 13 days later, and so far, no more noise in the pot (it's been about five weeks).  I'm sure the potential exists for the noise to develop again; Alps makes good pots, overall, but these are their low tier offerings.  If the noise does come back, I may just replace it with a higher-quality pot.   On the plus side, nary a hiccup from my Vali 2.



I heard the pot on the Vali 2 is the same, yet the issues seem to be only with the Magni 3. I might send it in, but not having the amp for two weeks is annoying and would push me into having to buy another amp as I work from home and listen all day.


----------



## riffrafff

dwinnert said:


> I heard the pot on the Vali 2 is the same, yet the issues seem to be only with the Magni 3. I might send it in, but not having the amp for two weeks is annoying and would push me into having to buy another amp as I work from home and listen all day.



Yeah, I only sent mine in after the Vali 2 arrived.


----------



## eruditass

Looks like some with the Jotunheim may have a similar hum issue

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...view-head-fi-tv.818323/page-388#post-14362130

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/8z8k27

I am out of town for a while so I can't test, but can those with the issue try touching the case? 

For those with the hum issue


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

DoomzDayz said:


> Looks like some with the Jotunheim may have a similar hum issue
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...view-head-fi-tv.818323/page-388#post-14362130
> 
> ...


i guess anything is possible but with the lid on the magni being screwed down i would doubt it has the same issue i found with the jot. the issue with the jot was the new pin locking system and the paint in the keyhole preventing a good contact. jason has acknowledge there could be an issue and schiit has now added a step during manufacturing to make sure they are making proper contact and testing the grounds. ill pick up a magni 3 and check for any issues but i would guess it would be fine. i want to have a smaller amp i can move around easier anyway


----------



## TheRH (Jul 25, 2018)

Delete


----------



## lantian

I have a question for you guys.What are the line in spec's or better yet if anyone has fiio mk2 paired with it, is magni 3 capable of handling the line out load of fiio x7 mk2 without adjusting volume on fiio?


----------



## treecloud

riffrafff said:


> Well, the Deoxit worked...for a while.  Then the scratchiness came back.  Sent it off to Schiit, it returned 13 days later, and so far, no more noise in the pot (it's been about five weeks).  I'm sure the potential exists for the noise to develop again; Alps makes good pots, overall, but these are their low tier offerings.  If the noise does come back, I may just replace it with a higher-quality pot.   On the plus side, nary a hiccup from my Vali 2.



Dunno if this could be a similar thing, but I had a scratchy pot issue on my Massdrop ODAC + O2 integrated dac/amp. When I turned the volume up and down a few times it seemed to cure it for a while. But it didn't exactly sound like a dusty pot either, was a bit more subtle than that.

Then I got a Topping D50 DAC and fed it to the O2 section of the dac/amp, and one of the first things I noticed was no more scratchy pot at all. Listened a few weeks and scratchy never came back. Made me wonder if Massdrop's implementation of the ODAC was problematic. That product has been discontinued and a new version with a Grace dac is sold by Massdrop instead.

Then I replaced the Massdrop dac/amp completely getting a Magni 3, and the combo of D50 dac and Magni 3 amp has a dead quite volume pot also.


----------



## riffrafff

treecloud said:


> Dunno if this could be a similar thing, but I had a scratchy pot issue on my Massdrop ODAC + O2 integrated dac/amp. When I turned the volume up and down a few times it seemed to cure it for a while. But it didn't exactly sound like a dusty pot either, was a bit more subtle than that.
> 
> Then I got a Topping D50 DAC and fed it to the O2 section of the dac/amp, and one of the first things I noticed was no more scratchy pot at all. Listened a few weeks and scratchy never came back. Made me wonder if Massdrop's implementation of the ODAC was problematic. That product has been discontinued and a new version with a Grace dac is sold by Massdrop instead.
> 
> Then I replaced the Massdrop dac/amp completely getting a Magni 3, and the combo of D50 dac and Magni 3 amp has a dead quite volume pot also.



That's what we in the electronics biz call, "FM" (eFfing Magic).   

We might have different issues, though.  I could hear the scratchiness with nothing plugged into the Magni 3 except the power supply cord and a set of headphones.


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## sennsay (Jul 28, 2018)

This brilliant article featured in the excellent enjoythemusic.com site explains beautifully ... and with great humour ... why I get so much enjoyment from my Sennheiser HD540 Ref1s/Mimby/Magni 3 set up, they do almost all of these qualities _so well! _The Audio-gd R2R-11/HD430s are close behind, only the quantity of the lowest bass stops them from being right up there. The quality of the bass is wonderful!
Well written by Douglas Brown of Novo High End.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazi...ic_Qualities_Audiophiles_Critics_Look_For.htm


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## maheeinfy

My Magni 2 bleeds red like this, which the Magni 1 did not do if i remember correctly. Can anyone confirm if this is expected


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## JamminVMI

lantian said:


> I have a question for you guys.What are the line in spec's or better yet if anyone has fiio mk2 paired with it, is magni 3 capable of handling the line out load of fiio x7 mk2 without adjusting volume on fiio?


Um don’tthink line out levels are adjustable feel free ti correct me if I’m an idiot, though. My X5 mk II does wonderfully with my M3, though i prefer the coax iut into the modi 2 uber...


----------



## JamminVMI

maheeinfy said:


> My Magni 2 bleeds red like this, which the Magni 1 did not do if i remember correctly. Can anyone confirm if this is expected


Don’t know offhand. Give me an hour-ish, and when I finish this tenderloin and Castiro Tempranillo I’ll plug mine in and see!

Sounded awfully pretentious, but you don’t interrupt stuff this good!


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## JamminVMI (Jul 29, 2018)

maheeinfy said:


> My Magni 2 bleeds red like this, which the Magni 1 did not do if i remember correctly. Can anyone confirm if this is expected


Might have been less than an hour, but YES, same orange-led glowing/bleeding a bit. Mine bleeds a tad less than yours from around the knob, though... The power LED still manages to overpower it, but I'm good.

Oh (addition), shoulda mentioned mine's an M2 Uber. doubt that it makes a huge diff, though.


----------



## maheeinfy

JamminVMI said:


> Might have been less than an hour, but YES, same orange-led glowing/bleeding a bit. Mine bleeds a tad less than yours from around the knob, though... The power LED still manages to overpower it, but I'm good.
> 
> Oh (addition), shoulda mentioned mine's an M2 Uber. doubt that it makes a huge diff, though.


Thanks. I guess its ok and it looks cool as a bonus


----------



## tafens

maheeinfy said:


> My Magni 2 bleeds red like this, which the Magni 1 did not do if i remember correctly. Can anyone confirm if this is expected



This is normal, it is an orange LED that puts a biasing current on the main amplifier components. If you peek through the grille to the left you can see there is another one; there is one for each channel.

They didn’t have to use LEDs for this, but I think it’s a nice and cool way to do it, kind of reminds somewhat of tube glow


----------



## Tuneslover

My Jotunheim has that orange glow spilling out of the top vent holes too.  The source is from 2 LED light sources coming from the board inside of it, however they don't appear to be as significant in intensity as with your Magni 3.


----------



## Mike-WI

Tuneslover said:


> My Jotunheim has that orange glow spilling out of the top vent holes too.  The source is from 2 LED light sources coming from the board inside of it, however they don't appear to be as significant in intensity as with your Magni 3.





maheeinfy said:


> My Magni 2 bleeds red like this, which the Magni 1 did not do if i remember correctly. Can anyone confirm if this is expected



The white light also looks very, bright, so seems like at least in part due to camera exposure time.

My Jot MB is on now and the white light is bright, but the orange is visible from the top but not from the volume knob.


----------



## maheeinfy

Mike-WI said:


> The white light also looks very, bright, so seems like at least in part due to camera exposure time.
> 
> My Jot MB is on now and the white light is bright, but the orange is visible from the top but not from the volume knob.


White light is not so bright in real life. I now actually like the red bleeding from volume knob, looks cool


----------



## lantian

JamminVMI said:


> Um don’tthink line out levels are adjustable feel free ti correct me if I’m an idiot, though. My X5 mk II does wonderfully with my M3, though i prefer the coax iut into the modi 2 uber...


Thanks, that pretty much answers my question. Both x5 3rd gen and x7 2nd gen have the same line out spec of 1.8vrms. Just needed to make sure it can handle it.


----------



## Indrajit

Hi. Does the Magni 3 work portably with a music player's line out like a Fiio A5 or does it constantly need a power supply? I mean to say can it work independently as an amp or does it need to be connected to an electrical socket to work?


----------



## georgelai57

Indrajit said:


> Hi. Does the Magni 3 work portably with a music player's line out like a Fiio A5 or does it constantly need a power supply? I mean to say can it work independently as an amp or does it need to be connected to an electrical socket to work?


It needs to be connected.


----------



## kggibbs

How does Magni 3 work with high impedance headphones like HD650 ? Is it a good pairing


----------



## JamminVMI

kggibbs said:


> How does Magni 3 work with high impedance headphones like HD650 ? Is it a good pairing



For me & my HD6xx, U’m very happy. The Magni 3 has a achiit ton more power than its predecessor, and sounds great with these cans in my opinion. Gets even better with a Loki in the chain...


----------



## Indrajit (Aug 3, 2018)

georgelai57 said:


> It needs to be connected.



Thanks. 
I can see that the Magni 3 works only via electricity(ac). The problem is that the area in which I live suffers from voltage fluctuations constantly. The voltage at times drops to 85-90 V several times in the day. Even a stabilizer can't rectify this issue as the tubelights keep getting slightly dim as the voltage fluctuates. With the stated problem of constant voltage drop( at times to 90 V) is it fine to get a Schiit Magni 3 that doesn't work independently as other portable Fiio amps do? I want to know if the Magni 3 could suffer sonically with such voltage fluctuations. I only care about sound quality and wanna use the Magni 3 only as an amplifier with my Fiio X5iii. Anybody any insight?


----------



## displayname

Indrajit said:


> Thanks.
> I can see that the Magni 3 works only via electricity(ac). The problem is that the area in which I live suffers from voltage fluctuations constantly. The voltage at times drops to 85-90 V several times in the day. Even a stabilizer can't rectify this issue as the tubelights keep getting slightly dim as the voltage fluctuates. With the stated problem of constant voltage drop( at times to 90 V) is it fine to get a Schiit Magni 3 that doesn't work independently as other portable Fiio amps do? I want to know if the Magni 3 could suffer sonically with such voltage fluctuations. I only care about sound quality and wanna use the Magni 3 only as an amplifier with my Fiio X5iii. Anybody any insight?


I don't know if the Magni will be effected by the voltage swings, but it might. You might need to just try it to find out. Other options would be to stick with battery powered units, or if you really want to resolve the problem in general, look at power regenerators.


----------



## Indrajit

displayname said:


> I don't know if the Magni will be effected by the voltage swings, but it might. You might need to just try it to find out. Other options would be to stick with battery powered units, or if you really want to resolve the problem in general, look at power regenerators.



Thanks. Maybe I will look at Fiio amps


----------



## riffrafff

Maybe plug it into a small UPS; most have some kind of line conditioning built into them.


----------



## dwinnert

I had issues with a scratchy pot for a little while and now it is dead silent. For me at least, it seems just using it clears it up.


----------



## KaiFi

dwinnert said:


> I had issues with a scratchy pot for a little while and now it is dead silent. For me at least, it seems just using it clears it up.



Lucky. Pot still crackles at 9-10 o'clock. The only negative to this amp for me. It's excellent in every other way.


----------



## tafens

kggibbs said:


> How does Magni 3 work with high impedance headphones like HD650 ? Is it a good pairing



Yes, it works great (using HD6XX, the Massdrop HD650 equivalent).


----------



## tafens

KaiFi said:


> Lucky. Pot still crackles at 9-10 o'clock. The only negative to this amp for me. It's excellent in every other way.



Try (with no music/sound on) to move the pot from min to max and back again 10-15 times. Might clear it up.


----------



## lantian

Indrajit said:


> Thanks. Maybe I will look at Fiio amps


 Would recommend against any of fiio's own amp's, neither of them are even close to anything schiit makes. I would much rather suggest getting a car battery and transformer rather than a battery powered amp from fiio, as a portable unit aune b1s probably is the closest thing to magni quality for double the price.


----------



## KaiFi

tafens said:


> Try (with no music/sound on) to move the pot from min to max and back again 10-15 times. Might clear it up.



Wow. I can't believe that worked! I've had this thing for 6 months and never thought to try that. I'm dumb


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Over time it'll get scratchy again.  For some reason it's just characteristic of the lower end schiit pot/volume knobs.  Weirdly enough every Fulla 2 I've had has this issue but my Magni 2 is dead silent.

If doing full volume sweeps doesn't work, just pick up some electrical contact cleaner(NO RESIDUE ONES), take off the knob, spray the pot, and do a few sweeps.  Repeat until pot is silent.


----------



## KaiFi

I have a Magni 2 as well and it's silent. Kinda weird that they got it right on that one but not on the other models...


----------



## Gothamm

Guys, I just got my magni 3 and pairing it with my HD6xx I am very underwhelmed to the point I think there may be an issue with the amp. I am running it straight out of my macbook pro (no dac) with rca adaptor plugs. On high gain I have to crank it all the way to 3 o clock before i get decently loud sound.

Is it an issue with me not having a dac?


----------



## SomeTechNoob

Well how loud have you set your macbook's volume?


----------



## dwinnert

Gothamm said:


> Guys, I just got my magni 3 and pairing it with my HD6xx I am very underwhelmed to the point I think there may be an issue with the amp. I am running it straight out of my macbook pro (no dac) with rca adaptor plugs. On high gain I have to crank it all the way to 3 o clock before i get decently loud sound.
> 
> Is it an issue with me not having a dac?



What is the volume set at on the Mac or the player? 

My Magni 3 will make my ears bleed with HD6XX's.


----------



## Gothamm

dwinnert said:


> What is the volume set at on the Mac or the player?
> 
> My Magni 3 will make my ears bleed with HD6XX's.



Completely understandable response. I have double and triple checked that my Mac's volume was at max. I also tried other sources such as my ipad (again, with max volume) and iphone and the issue still persists. This magni 3 is actually a second replacement as the first magni was also experiencing the exact same issue with the power. This leads me to believe that there is something wrong i'm doing on my end (becuase, you know, what are the odds that both amps would be faulty).

These are the RCA plugs I am using, btw:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019D048XC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## JamminVMI

Gothamm said:


> Guys, I just got my magni 3 and pairing it with my HD6xx I am very underwhelmed to the point I think there may be an issue with the amp. I am running it straight out of my macbook pro (no dac) with rca adaptor plugs. On high gain I have to crank it all the way to 3 o clock before i get decently loud sound.
> 
> Is it an issue with me not having a dac?


Agree with the others here. Max out your source's volume, let the Magni handle volume control. My HD6xx's will get insanely loud with my M3...


Gothamm said:


> Completely understandable response. I have double and triple checked that my Mac's volume was at max. I also tried other sources such as my ipad (again, with max volume) and iphone and the issue still persists. This magni 3 is actually a second replacement as the first magni was also experiencing the exact same issue with the power. This leads me to believe that there is something wrong i'm doing on my end (becuase, you know, what are the odds that both amps would be faulty).
> 
> These are the RCA plugs I am using, btw:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019D048XC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Just grabbed mine (plugged into USB of PC into Modi 2 and thence to the Magni 3 - I can't crank it on low gain with the 6xxs. Something's up... I'd try another cable before freaking out, though. Monoprice are fine and inexpensive, pretty sure they carry that config...

They do: Monoprice Onyx Series 3.5mm Stereo Male to RCA Male 3 ft for &.39  - 6 footer is 50 cents-ish more. Amazon Basics 4-footer is 6 bucks prime. I've no experience with that cable you're using. Someone else might.


----------



## riffrafff

Check the output specs of your Mac.  Most amps expect 2VRMS.  That being said, I had no issue driving a Magni 3 from my Cayin N3 DAP (rated at 1VRMS out).


----------



## dwinnert

Gothamm said:


> Completely understandable response. I have double and triple checked that my Mac's volume was at max. I also tried other sources such as my ipad (again, with max volume) and iphone and the issue still persists. This magni 3 is actually a second replacement as the first magni was also experiencing the exact same issue with the power. This leads me to believe that there is something wrong i'm doing on my end (becuase, you know, what are the odds that both amps would be faulty).
> 
> These are the RCA plugs I am using, btw:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019D048XC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1



I am a firm believer in cheap arse cables....and have used those. Should not be an issue, but might be worth it to try another pair.

I am thinking like others that the output of the Mac is too low. I just ran my Magni 3 off the audio out on my crappy HP laptop and it gets way to loud for comfort just past 12.


----------



## Rensek

I have HD6xx's. I drove my Magni 3 from my iPad for months before I bought a Mimby. 12 on high gain is super loud and the most I can handle for more then a few minutes. Some songs beg to be cranked higher, but to avoid ear damage I turn it back down after the song is over.


----------



## joeexp

Gothamm said:


> Guys, I just got my magni 3 and pairing it with my HD6xx I am very underwhelmed to the point I think there may be an issue with the amp. I am running it straight out of my macbook pro (no dac) with rca adaptor plugs. On high gain I have to crank it all the way to 3 o clock before i get decently loud sound.
> 
> Is it an issue with me not having a dac?



You might want to adjust the output Volume on your Mac!


----------



## lantian

Gothamm said:


> Guys, I just got my magni 3 and pairing it with my HD6xx I am very underwhelmed to the point I think there may be an issue with the amp. I am running it straight out of my macbook pro (no dac) with rca adaptor plugs. On high gain I have to crank it all the way to 3 o clock before i get decently loud sound.
> 
> Is it an issue with me not having a dac?


Most likely yes. Is you laptops volume turned all the way up? If so then laptop output power is just to low.


----------



## tafens

Gothamm said:


> Guys, I just got my magni 3 and pairing it with my HD6xx I am very underwhelmed to the point I think there may be an issue with the amp. I am running it straight out of my macbook pro (no dac) with rca adaptor plugs. On high gain I have to crank it all the way to 3 o clock before i get decently loud sound.
> 
> Is it an issue with me not having a dac?



Should work without a dac (but I’d recommend one). Make sure your volume on the Mac isn’t too low (usually best to have the computer volume at max and do all the volume adjusting on the amp).


----------



## erich6

Gothamm said:


> Guys, I just got my magni 3 and pairing it with my HD6xx I am very underwhelmed to the point I think there may be an issue with the amp. I am running it straight out of my macbook pro (no dac) with rca adaptor plugs. On high gain I have to crank it all the way to 3 o clock before i get decently loud sound.
> 
> Is it an issue with me not having a dac?



I had this problem and then realized the Magni 3 really needs a 2V signal coming in from the DAC otherwise it will sound anemic with the HD6XX. Not sure what voltage you get straight out of the MacBook Pro.... Try and make sure you have the max volume output from the laptop.


----------



## sennsay

erich6 said:


> I had this problem and then realized the Magni 3 really needs a 2V signal coming in from the DAC otherwise it will sound anemic with the HD6XX. Not sure what voltage you get straight out of the MacBook Pro.... Try and make sure you have the max volume output from the laptop.


Correct. And, you need to be aware that the volume control on the Magni 3 itself has had the logarithmic movement extended and smoothed to allow a finer gradation of volume than the previous models. I regularly run my 600ohm HD540 Ref1s at between 1pm and 3pm and the 300 ohm HD6xx, when I had them, wouldn't be far off that and with plenty of volume, depending on the recording level. That's using the Mimby. 
 I also occasionally run the a-gd R2R-11 as a DAC into the M3 with great results and loads of volume. Both DACs are excellent, just different flavours. Both are very musical bits of kit!


----------



## riffrafff

My Magni 3 with a Cayin N3 NAP as a source (line-out = 1Vrms) was mostly underwhelming, although usable (even with its 4490 delta-sigma DAC).  The mimby, though opened up whole new horizons.


----------



## kingk6673

Wanted to share and see what others have found - Magni 3 with tube buffer takes the sound up a notch!

As with many on this thread, I think the Magni 3 is a really top notch amplifier at its price point and competes well with amps quite a bite above what it costs.  Since it has such a neutral, detailed and transparent sound I wanted to see the difference a tube buffer or pre-amplifier could make.  .

So…  I shelled out some dough and picked up and Ifi Micro Itub2 which has the GE JAN 5670.  The GE JAN 5670 has some good reviews and is a 6922 predecessor. I initially debated getting the Saga instead, but decided on the Itube 2.  Part of this is that I have an Ifi Micro BL DAC and have found that there tends to be good synergy between Ifi gear.  I was not sure what to expect, plugged in the iTube 2 and let it warm up.  I have read that it can take up to 40 hours for burn in, but I decided to have a listen at 6 hours.  Well, I thought that the Magni 3 paired really well with the Ifi Micro BL DAC but the Micro iTube 2 takes things up a notch!   The sound is smoother,  more natural, more detailed, better instrument placement and base and depth to sound stage. All across the board the Magni 3 sounds really, really good with MQA off of Tidal with the iTube2 as a buffer (0 gain and - setting on tube which is akin to classic low distortion tube based studio equipment per Ifi).  When I take the iTube2 out the chain the sound is definitely not as good.

Hats off to Schiit for making the Magni 3 able to pair well with lots of headphones AND with a tube buffer / pre-amplifier!  

My current system is Computer > Ifi Isilencer > Anticable 3.1 Reference USB > Ifi Nano Galvanic 3.0 > Anticable 3.1 Reference USB > iFi Mico USB 3.0 > Anticable 3.1 Reference split USB cable > iFi Micro BL > Anticable 6.2 RCA > Ifi Micro ITube2 > Anticable 6.2 RCA > Magni 3 > Cardas Clear Light Cable > Hifiman Edition X V2

Have a number noise suppression and vibration dampening tweaks to enhance audio quality and noise floor. (ie: vibrapods, isilencers)


----------



## Indrajit

Is the Magni 3 an ideal connection with the Fiio X5iii line out?


----------



## Indrajit

erich6 said:


> I had this problem and then realized the Magni 3 really needs a 2V signal coming in from the DAC otherwise it will sound anemic with the HD6XX. Not sure what voltage you get straight out of the MacBook Pro.... Try and make sure you have the max volume output from the laptop.



Hi I read your post. Do you think the X5III's line out has enough V to power Magni 3?


----------



## joeexp

kingk6673 said:


> Wanted to share and see what others have found - Magni 3 with tube buffer takes the sound up a notch!
> 
> As with many on this thread, I think the Magni 3 is a really top notch amplifier at its price point and competes well with amps quite a bite above what it costs.  Since it has such a neutral, detailed and transparent sound I wanted to see the difference a tube buffer or pre-amplifier could make.  .
> 
> So…  I shelled out some dough and picked up and Ifi Micro Itub2 which has the GE JAN 5670.  The GE JAN 5670 has some good reviews and is a 6922 predecessor.



The Ifi Micro Itub2 is 3 times the cost of the Magni --- #justsaying


----------



## riffrafff

You want tubes?  The Vali 2 has a tube.  I prefer its sound to my Magni 3.   So much so, that I've been experimenting with rolling some other tubes.

My latest monstrosity:


----------



## kingk6673

Thanks for the ideas!  I wanted to see if I could take the strengths of the Magni 3 and make it better.  It worked really well which was a pleasant surprise.  Would I like a higher end amplifier like Ragnarok…  Definitely!  But I have to save up first and it would be about 6 months to a year before I could get it.   So, given my circumstances I wanted to see if I could set myself up with something that would keep me happy until....  Freya with Ragnarok and Ifi iDSD Pro DAC with Hifiman 1000 V2 (At least or Focal Utopia or successors). 

That would take me a bit of time to save up the dough for but it gives me something to work for.  Until then I am happily listening and enjoying the synergy in my system and like many of us just enjoying trying new things - that do not break the bank!


----------



## spanner43

Indrajit said:


> Hi I read your post. Do you think the X5III's line out has enough V to power Magni 3?


Yes it does for me. when i am not using it on the go i dock my X5III with my magni 3 on a daily bases it works great


----------



## Indrajit

spanner43 said:


> Yes it does for me. when i am not using it on the go i dock my X5III with my magni 3 on a daily bases it works great



Thanks. How is the sound? Does M3 sound transparent or does it Color the already dual velvets of X5iii?


----------



## Jin Choi

These are so good i just bought another one for my work setup after listening for an hour at home on my Ether Flow + Chord Mojo + Tidal. Just unbelievable!

Hesitant to buy anything else at this point though i'd love to try some high end tube amps. but these are just so good I feel no need to upgrade at all.


----------



## Tuneslover

Jin Choi said:


> These are so good i just bought another one for my work setup after listening for an hour at home on my Ether Flow + Chord Mojo + Tidal. Just unbelievable!
> 
> Hesitant to buy anything else at this point though i'd love to try some high end tube amps. but these are just so good I feel no need to upgrade at all.



Sounds to me like to got what you want and that's what's important.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Sep 20, 2018)

I just got a magni 3 and have had it playing all day through my Sennheiser hd 558s. First impressions are that the magni 3 is very smooth sounding amp at low volume . Its getting the signal from a Topping d50 dac and the whole setup works very well together. I'm waiting on a drop of the HD 6XX so I'll eventually be putting those with the magni. I'm curious to how that system will stack up against my other one that uses an SMSL SU-8 dac, JDS Labs El amp, and Hifiman He-400i.


----------



## erich6

sennsay said:


> Correct. And, you need to be aware that the volume control on the Magni 3 itself has had the logarithmic movement extended and smoothed to allow a finer gradation of volume than the previous models. I regularly run my 600ohm HD540 Ref1s at between 1pm and 3pm and the 300 ohm HD6xx, when I had them, wouldn't be far off that and with plenty of volume, depending on the recording level. That's using the Mimby.
> I also occasionally run the a-gd R2R-11 as a DAC into the M3 with great results and loads of volume. Both DACs are excellent, just different flavours. Both are very musical bits of kit!





riffrafff said:


> My Magni 3 with a Cayin N3 NAP as a source (line-out = 1Vrms) was mostly underwhelming, although usable (even with its 4490 delta-sigma DAC). The mimby, though opened up whole new horizons.



Yeah, make sense.  I'm eyeing the Mimby as a possible next purchase.  Also intrigued by the Topping offerings (D50, DX7).


----------



## erich6

Indrajit said:


> Is the Magni 3 an ideal connection with the Fiio X5iii line out?



X5iii has a 1.8Vrms output so still short of the 2V the Magni 3 needs.  May be close enough...haven't heard the combo nor seen anyone report on it.


----------



## lantian

erich6 said:


> X5iii has a 1.8Vrms output so still short of the 2V the Magni 3 needs.  May be close enough...haven't heard the combo nor seen anyone report on it.


Should be fine with 1.8vrms output from fiio x5 3rd gen, have no issues with my fiio x7mk2, it has the same line out power output. The magni does not need anything, there is no reuired spec for line input, it supports up to a certain point, after which the input  source would start clipping it. Only issue one would run into with a source that outputs lower line out voltage will be lower overall power than from a device with higher power. My brothers x7 first gen has no problems either and it only has 1,4vrms line out signal.


----------



## erich6

lantian said:


> Should be fine with 1.8vrms output from fiio x5 3rd gen, have no issues with my fiio x7mk2, it has the same line out power output. The magni does not need anything, there is no reuired spec for line input, it supports up to a certain point, after which the input  source would start clipping it. Only issue one would run into with a source that outputs lower line out voltage will be lower overall power than from a device with higher power. My brothers x7 first gen has no problems either and it only has 1,4vrms line out signal.



I agree the Magni 3 will "work" with lower voltage input but the result is not just lower power--the dynamics are also compressed and this is really noticeable with a high-impedance headphone like the HD6XX.  1.8V might be close enough though I would prefer to hit the full 2V.  With my Oppo at 1.5Vrms I am missing a lot.


----------



## lantian

erich6 said:


> I agree the Magni 3 will "work" with lower voltage input but the result is not just lower power--the dynamics are also compressed and this is really noticeable with a high-impedance headphone like the HD6XX.  1.8V might be close enough though I would prefer to hit the full 2V.  With my Oppo at 1.5Vrms I am missing a lot.


can not say that I notice anything different than the lower power with any of my 300ohm or 600ohm phones (granted it can not power 600ohm hd 540 rg properly) when I switch from fiio x7 mk2 to fiio x7, on same headphones i just need to add a bit more volume if any at all. one is 1.8vrms and the other only 1,4vrms.  Only difference i notice is the same there has always been between the two players. Are you sure it is the output voltage of your oppo that is creating the problems? no such thing can be observed in my case. Only way for me to have anything simmilar to happen is to start lowering the volume on either one of my fiio daps digitally.


----------



## tafens

erich6 said:


> X5iii has a 1.8Vrms output so still short of the 2V the Magni 3 needs.  May be close enough...haven't heard the combo nor seen anyone report on it.



The Magni3 should work well with 1.5-2V rms, it’s only the Modi Multibit that outputs 2V, the Modi2 and Modi2 Uber both output 1.5V.


----------



## Rensek (Aug 19, 2018)

erich6 said:


> I had this problem and then realized the Magni 3 really needs a 2V signal coming in from the DAC otherwise it will sound anemic with the HD6XX. Not sure what voltage you get straight out of the MacBook Pro.... Try and make sure you have the max volume output from the laptop.





sennsay said:


> Correct. And, you need to be aware that the volume control on the Magni 3 itself has had the logarithmic movement extended and smoothed to allow a finer gradation of volume than the previous models. I regularly run my 600ohm HD540 Ref1s at between 1pm and 3pm and the 300 ohm HD6xx, when I had them, wouldn't be far off that and with plenty of volume, depending on the recording level. That's using the Mimby.
> I also occasionally run the a-gd R2R-11 as a DAC into the M3 with great results and loads of volume. Both DACs are excellent, just different flavours. Both are very musical bits of kit!





erich6 said:


> X5iii has a 1.8Vrms output so still short of the 2V the Magni 3 needs.  May be close enough...haven't heard the combo nor seen anyone report on it.





lantian said:


> Should be fine with 1.8vrms output from fiio x5 3rd gen, have no issues with my fiio x7mk2, it has the same line out power output. The magni does not need anything, there is no reuired spec for line input, it supports up to a certain point, after which the input  source would start clipping it. Only issue one would run into with a source that outputs lower line out voltage will be lower overall power than from a device with higher power. My brothers x7 first gen has no problems either and it only has 1,4vrms line out signal.





tafens said:


> The Magni3 should work well with 1.5-2V rms, it’s only the Modi Multibit that outputs 2V, the Modi2 and Modi2 Uber both output 1.5V.



Like I mentioned before I used to use an iPad air 2 into the Magni before my Mimby arrived. I also used a Chromecast Audio, and my pixel 2 using the dongle into the Magni. The Chromecast audio puts out 2.0v the iPad and Google dongle do not. All three devices easily power the Magni 3 and HD6XX to ear splitting levels at either gain.
 That being said I found the DAC chip to sound way better out of my iPad then either the CCA or Google Dongle. I would dare say the output voltage of your devices are less of an issue then folks are making them out to be. Anemic and hollow sounding would probably be the results of poor quality DACs, streaming bit rate, computer settings, EQ settings, or even yes the possibility of faulty equipment, both Schiit and laptop, etc. I really don't think the output voltage of any of the devices listed earlier will have any impact, positive or negative on the SQ the magni puts out. I really enjoy my Mimby, but could happily use Magni and HD6XX with my iPad air 2 if needed.
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/02/measurements-google-chromecast-audio.html?m=1
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/02/measurements-apple-ipad-air-2-audio.html?m=1

I stream via Spotify mostly, highest quality settings. Some Amazon and I Heart Radio.


----------



## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> I just got a magni 3 and have had it playing all day through my Sennheiser hd 558s. First impressions are that the magni 3 is very smooth sounding amp. Its getting the signal from a Topping d50 dac and the whole setup works very well together.



I'm using Magni 3 and Topping D50, and really like the combo also. Also good I think is EQ with JRiver and HifiMan 400s. Would also like to add Loki mini for EQ on streaming. Good stuff!


----------



## Slashn77

I am looking to upgrade from my Mayflower Arc and I already got a Modi Multibit dac but I am wondering whether to go with the Magni 3 or Asgard 2 and am curious why the Asgard 2 is $250 vs $100 for the Magni 3 even though the Magni 3 has more power and seems to have “better” specs throughout.

I seee the Argard 2 is class A which I am not familiar is that makes a difference or not compared to the Magni 3. 

Both are well in my budget and might even consider going with a Lyr 3 with SS tube (especially while gaming)because of how much praise the Lyr 3 gets. 

My choices are pretty limited since I need a SE amp since I don’t run balanced so getting a Jotunheim or similar in the sub $500 price range is pointless because I know a balanced amp usually has a much worse performing unbalanced connection because the balanced amps even though have 1/4” they were designed to work best balanced.

I mainly use hd 700/650’s and hifiman 4XX but will be grabbing either Hifiman Anandas or Audeze lcd 2’s in the near future so its time to upgrade my amp/dac without going too crazy expensive


----------



## tamleo

Hello guys,
i have the Magni2u and Asgard2, just bought a Magni 3 yesterday. My first impression is that Magni3 is a dark sounding amp. It sounds like a new Asgard rather than a Magni2u's successor. It doesn't make me wow like when I move from the A2 to the M2u. I will take time to listen to the M3 more. If anyone need a comparisons between the 3 amps just tell me.
ps: my dac is the mumby and my headphone is the lcd-2


----------



## tamleo

Slashn77 said:


> I am looking to upgrade from my Mayflower Arc and I already got a Modi Multibit dac but I am wondering whether to go with the Magni 3 or Asgard 2 and am curious why the Asgard 2 is $250 vs $100 for the Magni 3 even though the Magni 3 has more power and seems to have “better” specs throughout.
> 
> I seee the Argard 2 is class A which I am not familiar is that makes a difference or not compared to the Magni 3.
> 
> ...


IMHO you only should buy the Asgard 2 if you like a warm tubey sounding ss amp. The magni2u has a better sound and cheaper.


----------



## Martin GH1369

I just got a Magni 3, I moved from an SMSL audio Sap 2 pro and I'm not that impressed if I'm honest. The 2 pro is louder (even though the specs say the Magni should be far louder, I think?) and the music sounds like the instruments are playing much closer together.
I am using an SMSL Sanskrit 6th dac, should I upgrade my dac? Would it change/improve the sound at all?
I am happy with my selection of headphones, HD650s, Fidelio X2HRs and AKG K712 pro....  the problems i listed above are present across all headphones.


----------



## sennsay (Aug 26, 2018)

Martin GH1369 said:


> I just got a Magni 3, I moved from an SMSL audio Sap 2 pro and I'm not that impressed if I'm honest. The 2 pro is louder (even though the specs say the Magni should be far louder, I think?) and the music sounds like the instruments are playing much closer together.
> I am using an SMSL Sanskrit 6th dac, should I upgrade my dac? Would it change/improve the sound at all?
> I am happy with my selection of headphones, HD650s, Fidelio X2HRs and AKG K712 pro....  the problems i listed above are present across all headphones.


If you've only just received it, you really need to run it for a few days, at least let it settle in for 40-50 hours and relax with it for a while. It's naturally going to sound different than what you've been using previously, even if maybe only in a few details here and there .... or significantly so. So many new listeners also forget, or are not aware of the fact, that the taper of the volume control has been extended to allow for greater level control, it's not designed to get loud very quickly as many amps do, or used to. My own Magni 3 freed up in both sound stage, bass control and extension over a week of constant use. A brilliant match with the Mimby DAC, I have outstanding results with my 600 ohm Sennheiser HD540 Reference cans, as listed below and it's often running with the volume control set from 1-3:30pm, depending on the recorded level. I sold my far more expensive Valhalla 2 amplifier soon after I bought the Mimby to go with it, no contest. 
 While the Magni 3 doesn't have quite the mid bass drive and weight of some amps - like my R2R-11 - it's also more 3D and open, with wonderful extension and the combo with the Mimby has a finesse and natural organic expression that not only totally belies their price range, but leaves all sorts of other amps I've heard or have had on hand somewhat lacking in those areas and are well worth the very fine set of interconnects I use with them. They are my goto combo when I want my head, headphones and electronics to just disappear and I can relax into music that's alive and human.
 I've had my Magni 3 for 10 months now and the Mimby a little less and neither of them are going anywhere! The combo with the Ref1s beats all comers as a holistic experience of music. Maybe you haven't found your's yet.


----------



## tafens

sennsay said:


> I've had my Magni 3 for 10 months now and the Mimby a little less and neither of them are going anywhere! The combo with the Ref1s beats all comers as a holistic experience of music. Maybe you haven't found your's yet.



I’ve had my Magni3 and ModiMB for about ten months too, the last five of which I’ve listened to them with the HD6XX. I loved them before with my HD600, but with the HD6XX I just can’t get enough.. an amazing combo they are


----------



## Martin GH1369 (Aug 28, 2018)

sennsay said:


> If you've only just received it, you really need to run it for a few days, at least let it settle in for 40-50 hours and relax with it for a while. It's naturally going to sound different than what you've been using previously, even if maybe only in a few details here and there .... or significantly so. So many new listeners also forget, or are not aware of the fact, that the taper of the volume control has been extended to allow for greater level control, it's not designed to get loud very quickly as many amps do, or used to. My own Magni 3 freed up in both sound stage, bass control and extension over a week of constant use. A brilliant match with the Mimby DAC, I have outstanding results with my 600 ohm Sennheiser HD540 Reference cans, as listed below and it's often running with the volume control set from 1-3:30pm, depending on the recorded level. I sold my far more expensive Valhalla 2 amplifier soon after I bought the Mimby to go with it, no contest.
> While the Magni 3 doesn't have quite the mid bass drive and weight of some amps - like my R2R-11 - it's also more 3D and open, with wonderful extension and the combo with the Mimby has a finesse and natural organic expression that not only totally belies their price range, but leaves all sorts of other amps I've heard or have had on hand somewhat lacking in those areas and are well worth the very fine set of interconnects I use with them. They are my goto combo when I want my head, headphones and electronics to just disappear and I can relax into music that's alive and human.
> I've had my Magni 3 for 10 months now and the Mimby a little less and neither of them are going anywhere! The combo with the Ref1s beats all comers as a holistic experience of music. Maybe you haven't found your's yet.


I had to Google what you meant by Mimby, why do people call it that?

Other people have mentioned the Schiit Multibit, what advantages does it have over the Modi 2 Uber as I have been thinking of buying a new dac anyway. I am also going to buy a Loki when the UK store gets more stock as I'd like to take out some of the bass on my X2s.


----------



## riffrafff

Martin GH1369 said:


> I had to Google what you meant by Mimby, why do people call it that?



I believe it was originally Schiit's in-house nickname (for the Modi Multibit).


----------



## sennsay

Martin GH1369 said:


> I had to Google what you meant by Mimby, why do people call it that?
> 
> Other people have mentioned the Schiit Multibit, what advantages does it have over the Modi 2 Uber as I have been thinking of buying a new dac anyway. I am also going to buy a Loki when the UK store gets more stock as if like to take the bass on my X2s.


The other DACs in the range all have their respective nick-names  Mimby, Bimby, Gumby and Yggy, particularly relating to the Multi-bit versions. 
Schiit's website will easily describe the differences between the Modi 2 Uber and the Multibit. The Mimby has a little more output than the other Modi models, is generally regarded as smoother and more organic and is essentially a simpler Bifrost Multibit, the circuit is basically the same though with an external transformer pack and is not upgradeable. I adore what my Mimby brings to musical and organic life.


----------



## DavidA

Martin GH1369 said:


> I had to Google what you meant by Mimby, why do people call it that?
> 
> Other people have mentioned the Schiit Multibit, what advantages does it have over the Modi 2 Uber as I have been thinking of buying a new dac anyway. I am also going to buy a Loki when the UK store gets more stock as if like to take the bass on my X2s.



While some say the Mimby is much better than the Modi2uber, to me its just a small improvement/slightly different tuning, and for some its not worth the cost since they can't hear the differences between them.  I have a Bimby, Bifrost Uber, Modi2uber and Teac UD301 and have compared a Mimby, Gumby and Yggy that I've borrowed from friends.  While most of my audiophile friends can hear differences between all of these DACs its not a night and day or huge difference and for some unless you are comparing them side by side most would find it hard to say which and if listening to them say 15 minutes apart its even harder/impossible to tell them apart.  Another thing to consider is the headphones that one uses since some will show differences in DACs, amps, and tubes better than others.


----------



## sennsay

DavidA said:


> While some say the Mimby is much better than the Modi2uber, to me its just a small improvement/slightly different tuning, and for some its not worth the cost since they can't hear the differences between them.  I have a Bimby, Bifrost Uber, Modi2uber and Teac UD301 and have compared a Mimby, Gumby and Yggy that I've borrowed from friends.  While most of my audiophile friends can hear differences between all of these DACs its not a night and day or huge difference and for some unless you are comparing them side by side most would find it hard to say which and if listening to them say 15 minutes apart its even harder/impossible to tell them apart.  Another thing to consider is the headphones that one uses since some will show differences in DACs, amps, and tubes better than others.


I would agree with you for the most part, although if someone is only finding very small differences between a Mimby/Bimby and a fully run in and warmed up Yggy 2, then either their true listening ability - which comes from the heart, hearing is just a head thing and anyone can do that - is undeveloped (not a trace of offence is intended, deep _listening_ is something that requires learning and experience and time) or they really should just go for the cheapest option because it's good enough  for whatever reason. The "New Schiit Audio Yggrasil" thread is well worth a read for those wanting a possible expanded look at what's possible.  
 There is an ability inherent in the Schiit ladder/R2R DACs that goes beyond just hifi and that applies from Mimby to Yggy and also to the Audio-gd R2R-11. Whether one prefers more 'crispy critter' to the sound and less organic wholeness is up to the individual. That's why there is a range of gear from Modi's to Yggy's. I just have developed a personal preference for a complete lack of edge and upper midband sharpness/peakiness (yet still detailed) that applies from my home system to my head-fi. I used to be more dynamically crispy orientated, like many here, now I can only enjoy it if it comes with a complete lack of artificial edge. The interconnect between the Mimby and Magni 3 also makes a big difference to my overall harmony of experience, the Slinkylinks are sublime while being something many here would not even consider spending the money on. I totally understand that, fortunately I bought them years ago when I was a lot more flush with $$, yet they show magnificently that the Mimby DAC and the M3 are well worth it and allow me the results I have shared here before.


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## BrotherKathos

Martin GH1369 said:


> I just got a Magni 3, I moved from an SMSL audio Sap 2 pro and I'm not that impressed if I'm honest. The 2 pro is louder (even though the specs say the Magni should be far louder, I think?) and the music sounds like the instruments are playing much closer together.
> I am using an SMSL Sanskrit 6th dac, should I upgrade my dac? Would it change/improve the sound at all?
> I am happy with my selection of headphones, HD650s, Fidelio X2HRs and AKG K712 pro....  the problems i listed above are present across all headphones.



I recently got my magni 3 and while I found it smoother at lower volumes than my JDS Labs El Amp, it did seem to have a bit less sound stage and also got more fatiguing at higher volumes when using my Hifiman HE-400i phones. I've left the magni 3 on constant for almost a week while also playing music through the phones. I haven't really listened much to it in between because it wanted to see if I could notice differences without just getting used to it myself. It has smoothed out a bit and become less harsh at higher listening levels. The sound stage has opened up a bit as well, but still not as good as the EL Amp. The magni 3 has gotten a little fuller though and that is its best defining characteristic as opposed to the El Amp. The magni 3 comes off less refined, but gives you more of that "live" experience where you typically don't get the most refined sound in the first place.


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## sennsay (Aug 27, 2018)

BrotherKathos said:


> I recently got my magni 3 and while I found it smoother at lower volumes than my JDS Labs El Amp, it did seem to have a bit less sound stage and also got more fatiguing at higher volumes when using my Hifiman HE-400i phones. I've left the magni 3 on constant for almost a week while also playing music through the phones. I haven't really listened much to it in between because it wanted to see if I could notice differences without just getting used to it myself. It has smoothed out a bit and become less harsh at higher listening levels. The sound stage has opened up a bit as well, but still not as good as the EL Amp. The magni 3 has gotten a little fuller though and that is its best defining characteristic as opposed to the El Amp. The magni 3 comes off less refined, but gives you more of that "live" experience where you typically don't get the most refined sound in the first place.


The Magni 3 _can_ be more refined (and with an excellent wide and deep soundstage with the better recordings), it just depends on what comes before it and there are subtle improvements with age, the former being the biggest difference. Well noted though, with your impressions so far. I have the HE400S and although they are 'good', I don't actually _like_ them with the Schiit stack, personally. The Senn HD540 Ref1s run all over them for intimate organic and sheer alive wholeness in this set-up. However, paired with the Questyle QP1R, they are fabulous! The QP1R also provides my best and purest source for the Schiit stack.
 Where the Magni 3 can sometimes appear lacking is in the mid-bass punch and attack department, my R2R is fuller and weightier, I just prefer the greater overall transparency and linearity.


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## BrotherKathos (Aug 27, 2018)

sennsay said:


> The Magni 3 _can_ be more refined (and with an excellent wide and deep soundstage with the better recordings), it just depends on what comes before it and there are subtle improvements with age, the former being the biggest difference. Well noted though, with your impressions so far. I have the HE400S and although they are 'good', I don't actually _like_ them with the Schiit stack, personally. The Senn HD540 Ref1s run all over them for intimate organic and sheer alive wholeness in this set-up. However, paired with the Questyle QP1R, they are fabulous! The QP1R also provides my best and purest source for the Schiit stack.
> Where the Magni 3 can sometimes appear lacking is in the mid-bass punch and attack department, my R2R is fuller and weightier, I just prefer the greater overall transparency and linearity.



I've got a few phones and I think I need to find the best pairing for the Magni. I'm waiting on the HdXX drop and will either end up using those or possibly some Audeze lcd2c phones with it. THe he-400i sounds way way better with my SMSL SU-8 and el amp than they do paired with the magni 3 and topping d50.


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## sennsay

BrotherKathos said:


> I've got a few phones and I think I need to find the best pairing for the Magni. I'm waiting on the HdXX drop and will either end up using those or possibly some Audeze lcd2c phones with it. THe he-400i sounds way way better with my SMSL SU-8 and el amp than they do paired with the magni 3 and topping d50.


Yes, that's the fine art, isn't it, finding that perfect match. Some, like the HD6xx and other than a few exceptional moments here and there, I just couldn't live with ultimately. I used to have the HD650s as well and along with the HD6xx, despite being slightly superior in a couple of small areas) just found that they didn't do 'natural organic communicative Life' the way the HD540 Ref1s do with their current pad and cable set up and the Schiit stack. They show those abilities with many amps, including some home theatre jobbies, but the 'stack' is where they gel sublimely. 
 All hail to those who find those magic pairings out there!


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## DavidA

BrotherKathos said:


> I've got a few phones and I think I need to find the best pairing for the Magni. I'm waiting on the HdXX drop and will either end up using those or possibly some Audeze lcd2c phones with it. THe he-400i sounds way way better with my SMSL SU-8 and el amp than they do paired with the magni 3 and topping d50.


Like @sennsay noted its the art of finding a pairing of amp and headphone and one reason I don't normally suggest the Magni3 to friends since its good but didn't pair well with some headphones that I tried it with.  An amp that that I'd always recommend is the Ember but its quite a bit more at $350 but to me and many that have it its a bargain at $350 since it so flexible with paring with almost any headphone that I've tried it with and that not even getting into tube rolling yet.
The HD650/6XX sound best with an OTL amp to me but its not bad with the Jot and Magni3 but once you hear how it sounds with a OTL amp its hard to go back to a SS amp, at least for me.
Best pairing for my HE400i is the headphone output of my UD301 DAC or the Ember with a slightly warm tube (Bugle Boy or Mullard) and another amp that I felt paired well with the HE400i was the Polaris ($250) that I borrowed from a friend.


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## Martin GH1369

riffrafff said:


> I believe it was originally Schiit's in-house nickname (for the Modi Multibit).


Thank you.


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## Martin GH1369

DavidA said:


> Like @sennsay noted its the art of finding a pairing of amp and headphone and one reason I don't normally suggest the Magni3 to friends since its good but didn't pair well with some headphones that I tried it with.  An amp that that I'd always recommend is the Ember but its quite a bit more at $350 but to me and many that have it its a bargain at $350 since it so flexible with paring with almost any headphone that I've tried it with and that not even getting into tube rolling yet.
> The HD650/6XX sound best with an OTL amp to me but its not bad with the Jot and Magni3 but once you hear how it sounds with a OTL amp its hard to go back to a SS amp, at least for me.
> Best pairing for my HE400i is the headphone output of my UD301 DAC or the Ember with a slightly warm tube (Bugle Boy or Mullard) and another amp that I felt paired well with the HE400i was the Polaris ($250) that I borrowed from a friend.


I was originally going to buy a Cavalli Hybrid tube amp but I can't get hold of one in the UK so gave up on that idea.
I'm not adverse to spending a lot of money on audio equipment (I spent nearly £10,000 on my AVR and 5.1.4 setup) but I have to know that I like what I'm buying. I was easily able to test the home cinema setup I wanted, I phoned Richersounds (UK AV shop) and said I wanted to trial the equipment, they gave me a date and I attended to test the equipment  no where near me does this with headphones and very few will do it with headphone amps, I'd have to take the headphones with me to the places that will but they only have a very limited range and nothing of what I am interested in. 
I managed to convince my wife that the entire family would benefit from the new home cinema equipment, headphones and amps are a much harder sell and especially when I've only recently bought new stuff inexpensive (relatively) though it was.

I don't want to get into the habit of always buying upgraded equipment, I'd get in trouble as I recently did it with my pc


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## DavidA

Martin GH1369 said:


> I was originally going to buy a Cavalli Hybrid tube amp but I can't get hold of one in the UK so gave up on that idea.
> I'm not adverse to spending a lot of money on audio equipment (I spent nearly £10,000 on my AVR and 5.1.4 setup) but I have to know that I like what I'm buying. I was easily able to test the home cinema setup I wanted, I phoned Richersounds (UK AV shop) and said I wanted to trial the equipment, they gave me a date and I attended to test the equipment  no where near me does this with headphones and very few will do it with headphone amps, I'd have to take the headphones with me to the places that will but they only have a very limited range and nothing of what I am interested in.
> I managed to convince my wife that the entire family would benefit from the new home cinema equipment, headphones and amps are a much harder sell and especially when I've only recently bought new stuff inexpensive (relatively) though it was.
> 
> I don't want to get into the habit of always buying upgraded equipment, I'd get in trouble as I recently did it with my pc


I'm in almost the same boat as you living in Hawaii since only Best Buy and a few other stores even carry headphones and they are mostly Sony, Beats, Bose and a few other brands and forget about amps or DACs.  Tried to setup a get together with a few other Head-Fi members but we never got meet going.  I've been lucky to have some friends who have great gear and we do get together once in a while to listen, drink, eat and just talk so I've been able to borrow and audition some pretty nice gear over the years thanks to them.

As for constantly "updating or upgrading" I am at a point where I'm getting older so I know my hearing is only going to get worse so I don't really have any reason to keep buying new stuff but I do like the various differences of the various headphones that I have and also how they pair with my gear


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## sennsay

DavidA said:


> Like @sennsay noted its the art of finding a pairing of amp and headphone and one reason I don't normally suggest the Magni3 to friends since its good but didn't pair well with some headphones that I tried it with.  An amp that that I'd always recommend is the Ember but its quite a bit more at $350 but to me and many that have it its a bargain at $350 since it so flexible with paring with almost any headphone that I've tried it with and that not even getting into tube rolling yet.
> The HD650/6XX sound best with an OTL amp to me but its not bad with the Jot and Magni3 but once you hear how it sounds with a OTL amp its hard to go back to a SS amp, at least for me.
> Best pairing for my HE400i is the headphone output of my UD301 DAC or the Ember with a slightly warm tube (Bugle Boy or Mullard) and another amp that I felt paired well with the HE400i was the Polaris ($250) that I borrowed from a friend.


Indeed, DavidA, the Ember is something I'm rather intrigued with and would like to hear one. Going to have to buy one first though, as there's not much chance of getting a listen to one around here! I like the looks of it too, might even get the kit  I already have some lovely Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8s to pop in there if I want warmth without thickness.


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## Tuneslover

DavidA said:


> Like @sennsay noted its the art of finding a pairing of amp and headphone and one reason I don't normally suggest the Magni3 to friends since its good but didn't pair well with some headphones that I tried it with.  An amp that that I'd always recommend is the Ember but its quite a bit more at $350 but to me and many that have it its a bargain at $350 since it so flexible with paring with almost any headphone that I've tried it with and that not even getting into tube rolling yet.
> The HD650/6XX sound best with an OTL amp to me but its not bad with the Jot and Magni3 but once you hear how it sounds with a OTL amp its hard to go back to a SS amp, at least for me.
> Best pairing for my HE400i is the headphone output of my UD301 DAC or the Ember with a slightly warm tube (Bugle Boy or Mullard) and another amp that I felt paired well with the HE400i was the Polaris ($250) that I borrowed from a friend.



I agree with @DavidA post having upgraded to the Project Ember (from Magni 2U & Vali 2) myself.


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## DavidA

sennsay said:


> Indeed, DavidA, the Ember is something I'm rather intrigued with and would like to hear one. Going to have to buy one first though, as there's not much chance of getting a listen to one around here! I like the looks of it too, might even get the kit  I already have some lovely Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8s to pop in there if I want warmth without thickness.


If you do get one (or any of the Garage 1217 amp) don't get the kit since it will not have the warranty if you build it yourself, food for though.

I actually got the Ember on a recommendation from a long time Head-Fi member @Solrighal, and to make if even better my old GF bought it for me to replace a WA7d that I had just sold only because you can change the color of the LED under the tube to pink.

The Magni3 that I tried belong to a friend who was looking for a small foot print amp for his office who had also ordered a CTH and LCX from MassDrop but due to the long wait times needed something quickly.  This is where we noted that the Magni3 while great with some headphones was less than ideal with others (HD800, HD700, T1gen1, HE560, and a few others) due to it being a touch on the bright side of neutral IMO.  He has since given the Magni3 and LCX to one of his daughters who has a TH900, HD6XX and Ypsilon G1, kept the CTH for use with HD650 and PS1000e in his home office and got a Polaris for his office with HD700 and Aeon Flow open.


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## BrotherKathos

DavidA said:


> Like @sennsay noted its the art of finding a pairing of amp and headphone and one reason I don't normally suggest the Magni3 to friends since its good but didn't pair well with some headphones that I tried it with.  An amp that that I'd always recommend is the Ember but its quite a bit more at $350 but to me and many that have it its a bargain at $350 since it so flexible with paring with almost any headphone that I've tried it with and that not even getting into tube rolling yet.
> The HD650/6XX sound best with an OTL amp to me but its not bad with the Jot and Magni3 but once you hear how it sounds with a OTL amp its hard to go back to a SS amp, at least for me.
> Best pairing for my HE400i is the headphone output of my UD301 DAC or the Ember with a slightly warm tube (Bugle Boy or Mullard) and another amp that I felt paired well with the HE400i was the Polaris ($250) that I borrowed from a friend.



I usually try to find the least colored amps possible and adjust my flavor with headphones because I find it easier that way to find what I like. I usually stay away from tube amps for that same reason. The topping D50 is supposedly one of the most objective dacs out there especially under the $500 price point. I'm waiting on the drop for the THX AAA amp to pair with the D50 and the magni 3 was really meant as a throw away purchase that will do me until then, afterwards I can pair it with something else of mine that will work better. I might try the ember though as I've only ever dealt with tubes on my guitar amps and never with any stereo equipment.


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## sennsay

BrotherKathos said:


> I usually try to find the least colored amps possible and adjust my flavor with headphones because I find it easier that way to find what I like. I usually stay away from tube amps for that same reason. The topping D50 is supposedly one of the most objective dacs out there especially under the $500 price point. I'm waiting on the drop for the THX AAA amp to pair with the D50 and the magni 3 was really meant as a throw away purchase that will do me until then, afterwards I can pair it with something else of mine that will work better. I might try the ember though as I've only ever dealt with tubes on my guitar amps and never with any stereo equipment.


The Magni 3 as a 'throw away purchase'? I would have to assume - rightly or wrongly - that you definitely have not heard it at it's best! After 45+ years of experience in audio, the Magni 3 in my combo is far away from ever being classed in that category!  I also have no 'brightness' in my system, some recordings might show that they are more brightly lit, but not the amp in itself. I also use quality pure silver interconnects and there is none of that so-called silver mid brightness either. Recordings that are over-eq'd, yes, the system itself, not. Neither the headphones (HD540 Ref1s), optical cable, DAC (Mimby), Mogami cable or the source (QP1R). I can relax for hours with magnificent organically alive communication and rhythmic integrity, without anything being dulled or compressed into a more 2D soundstage. Depth, height, width and transparency with upgraded 29 year old headphones (pads and cable only), the finest humanly musical results I've had from any gear in decades. 
 I'm aware of truly greater amplifiers out there, headphones that are 'better' in some areas (yet many have lost some of that organic aliveness in the process and I do not like the bass emphasis or brightness, or both), the financial cost though to truly take things to a whole new level is significant! 
 The Magni 3 has, in a way, created it's own issues, in that being rather a bargain price it's often only used in budget systems, with budget connections etc. It is well worthy of far better and my own results prove it .. at least to myself and others that have done so


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## DavidA

BrotherKathos said:


> I usually try to find the least colored amps possible and adjust my flavor with headphones because I find it easier that way to find what I like. I usually stay away from tube amps for that same reason. The topping D50 is supposedly one of the most objective dacs out there especially under the $500 price point. I'm waiting on the drop for the THX AAA amp to pair with the D50 and the magni 3 was really meant as a throw away purchase that will do me until then, afterwards I can pair it with something else of mine that will work better. I might try the ember though as I've only ever dealt with tubes on my guitar amps and never with any stereo equipment.


I was like you at first and wanted "least colored" DACs and amps but I've found that its not so simple only because various headphones react to differently to different amps and its one reason I have kept my main system of 3 DACs and 4 amps for so long since it gives me a lot of different combinations and I really like all the different pairings.

I'll take the Magni3 off your hands when you decided to "throw it away" , I can always setup another listening area in the bathroom, or add it to my lanai setup.  Kidding aside the Magni3 is a bargain for what it is but like I posted earlier it just didn't seem to pair well with some headphones.

The Ember is quite a bit different from the Magni3 not only due to rolling tubes but you can vary the output impedance and there are other options to by-pass input caps and such so its a amp that you can tinker with to try to good/great pairing with almost any headphone.  If you don't want to deal with tubes look at the Polaris, very similar without the tube.


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 20, 2018)

DavidA said:


> I was like you at first and wanted "least colored" DACs and amps but I've found that its not so simple only because various headphones react to differently to different amps and its one reason I have kept my main system of 3 DACs and 4 amps for so long since it gives me a lot of different combinations and I really like all the different pairings.
> 
> I'll take the Magni3 off your hands when you decided to "throw it away" , I can always setup another listening area in the bathroom, or add it to my lanai setup.  Kidding aside the Magni3 is a bargain for what it is but like I posted earlier it just didn't seem to pair well with some headphones.
> 
> The Ember is quite a bit different from the Magni3 not only due to rolling tubes but you can vary the output impedance and there are other options to by-pass input caps and such so its a amp that you can tinker with to try to good/great pairing with almost any headphone.  If you don't want to deal with tubes look at the Polaris, very similar without the tube.



I probably won't ever actually throw the magi 3 away. That was just a figure of speech, and maybe not the best one for this site hehe. I've got plenty of places to put it when and if it gets replaced later on. It has gotten alot better over the week of burn in. Strangely the biggest improvement was its function as a preamp. I was actually very dissapointed initially with how it sounded as a preamp, but after a week it has turned around into something that actually sounds really good. Almost a complete 180. Maybe my ears were messed up a week ago, or some other strange reason. Its dfinately not me getting used to it though since I only listened to the system maybe twice for a couple of minutes in the whole time period. My time listening was spent on the SMSL and EL amp combo. I doubt I'll ever stop liking the objective side of audio though. I like to feel like I'm hooked into the sound board at the recording studio as the artist makes his stuff.

 I want a completely black background with as little noise as possible. I've even returned 2 of the ESSENCE HDACC II 4k headphone amps because to me as soon as the things turned on they had a constant low level white noise through them. The CEO Bob Rapport sent me a replacement that did the same thing and when he got the units he found them to be operating as normal. He then informed me after selling the units that the other customers did not notice the noise. So for some really wierd reason there might have been some equipment ac line noise that only the Essence dacs picked up on my specific setup that no other dacs or amps  that I own pick up and no one else seems to experience with the same units.
 None of my other products were that bad, but the magni 3 is noticeable noisier to me than the EL amp which muddies up the water a bit too much for me. Tubes are in my experience even worse in that respect. Any sort of hiss or pop or audible distortion is a deal breaker for me for my home listening. And don't even get me started on vinyl.


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## DavidA

@BrotherKathos, hum is usually caused by dirty power in you home and for some its a PITA to get rid off and also some amps/DACs seem to be more sensitive to dirty power.  Reading though many of the amp thread it can be a simple solution like the ground to the housing of the DAC/amp is not making good contact, installing pricy power conditioners and for some it was constructing a faraday cage around a tube amp.
The Magni3 that I borrowed from my friend was dead silent at my place but another friend noted that there was a very slight hum when she turned up the volume to max when she was borrowing it and also that there was some scratchiness in the volume pot that she used some Deoxit on.


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## BrotherKathos (Aug 29, 2018)

DavidA said:


> @BrotherKathos, hum is usually caused by dirty power in you home and for some its a PITA to get rid off and also some amps/DACs seem to be more sensitive to dirty power.  Reading though many of the amp thread it can be a simple solution like the ground to the housing of the DAC/amp is not making good contact, installing pricy power conditioners and for some it was constructing a faraday cage around a tube amp.
> The Magni3 that I borrowed from my friend was dead silent at my place but another friend noted that there was a very slight hum when she turned up the volume to max when she was borrowing it and also that there was some scratchiness in the volume pot that she used some Deoxit on.



I think the noise in my unit is most likely a hardware issue. Its pretty silent overall, but just no where near the El amp. I actually have the unit hooked up to a monster power power generator. This is not your run of the mill power conditioner as it literally disconnects your equipment from the wall ac power. It takes the ac power and then generates its own clean power with perfect 120 volt regulation from that. Its from a bygone era when monster power was really high end. Not the cheap line filtering that most all other units use. I'm warming up to the magni 3, but will most likely replace it in that particular setup when the THX amp gets here in Feb. But who knows, maybe it will be ultra broken in by then? Like you I also noticed the slight treble bias of the magni 3 and as I'm very treble sensitive that is one of the main reasons for putting it lower on my list of preferred head amps. I bought a TEAC UD-301 a few months back and that was the absolute worst shrill horrid amp I've ever heard and promptly returned it. Maybe I got a bad one there too or it just didn't jive with all my other components. I tested it with 3 different power amps and 4 headphones and it sounded awful on them all to me.

My voltage regulator:   https://hometheaterreview.com/monster-avs-2000-home-theater-voltage-stabilizer-reviewed/


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## BrotherKathos

I plan on getting a pair of Audeze LCD2C headphones in a bit and since i've seen reviews on how some people who even like dark phones say they are a bit too dark, then pairing them with the magni 3 might be a great match. The magni 3 should also power the planars nicely since it does output quite a bit of current.


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## DavidA (Aug 29, 2018)

Funny you mention the Monster AVS 2000 as I had one back in 2009 until around 2013 when I decided to put most of my speaker gear in storage due to moving from a really large 2 bedroom condo to a large 1 bedroom since my son started college I didn't need the extra bedroom anymore so I sold of the AVS 2000 since a friend really wanted it and for where I was living at the time I had no electrical issues.

I not sure what to make of the UD301 that you had since mine and another friend that has one find it to be pretty good and at times better than my Bimby since its a bit more dynamic and the headphone amp that it has seems to pair quite well with many of my headphones.  Which connection to the DAC were you using? I only use the optical and coax since I don't like dealing with USB drivers which sometimes conflict with other gear.

Haven't heard an LCD-2c yet but a friend who has them told me to pass since I have a first gen Fazor and he said that the 2c might be a bit too dark for me


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 20, 2018)

DavidA said:


> Funny you mention the Monster AVS 2000 as I had one back in 2009 until around 2013 when I decided to put most of my speaker gear in storage due to moving from a really large 2 bedroom condo to a large 1 bedroom since my son started college I didn't need the extra bedroom anymore so I sold of the AVS 2000 since a friend really wanted it and for where I was living at the time I had no electrical issues.
> 
> I not sure what to make of the UD301 that you had since mine and another friend that has one find it to be pretty good and at times better than my Bimby since its a bit more dynamic and the headphone amp that it has seems to pair quite well with many of my headphones.  Which connection to the DAC were you using? I only use the optical and coax since I don't like dealing with USB drivers which sometimes conflict with other gear.
> 
> Haven't heard an LCD-2c yet but a friend who has them told me to pass since I have a first gen Fazor and he said that the 2c might be a bit too dark for me


I probably just got a bad TEAC. I've seen recently that alot of people have been getting bad units. I was using the usb to the dac. I need the usb for DSD music and also to use with my pc. Windows has screwed the drivers for optical outs on all my computers. Cant even use them at all in waspi. Its probably just my ears that don't mesh with the certain products. That is the hardest thing really because everyone has different ears and ear structures, different ages, differing amounts of hearing loss etc. I hoped the magni 3 would be as good as i've seen so many people state in their own experience, but so far with my setups and headphones its not as good as my EL amp, marantz reciever hp out, or even the little audio-engine D1. The ESSENCE HDACC that i returned also sounded better tonally than the magni 3 except for the terrible white noise which was not found strangely by the customers that bought the unit after me according to the manufacturer.


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## sennsay

Yes, the USB/optical thing is interesting. I find the Mimby/Magni 3 better with optical in from the QP1R, where it is simply magic and utterly pure and silent. The a-gd R2R I prefer via USB from an Audioquest Jitterbug/Kimber Cable combo from the MacBook Pro (set to 24/96kHz), the results are superb! The optical input here doesn't quite have the natural weighty swing of the excellent Amanero Combo USB input, sounding a tad flat, still good, just not quite as alive.


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## Tuneslover

DavidA said:


> I was like you at first and wanted "least colored" DACs and amps but I've found that its not so simple only because various headphones react to differently to different amps and its one reason I have kept my main system of 3 DACs and 4 amps for so long since it gives me a lot of different combinations and I really like all the different pairings.
> 
> I'll take the Magni3 off your hands when you decided to "throw it away" , I can always setup another listening area in the bathroom, or add it to my lanai setup.  Kidding aside the Magni3 is a bargain for what it is but like I posted earlier it just didn't seem to pair well with some headphones.
> 
> The Ember is quite a bit different from the Magni3 not only due to rolling tubes but you can vary the output impedance and there are other options to by-pass input caps and such so its a amp that you can tinker with to try to good/great pairing with almost any headphone.  If you don't want to deal with tubes look at the Polaris, very similar without the tube.



My sentiments exactly however I only have 3 amp/DAC setups. Additionally I have a Schiit Loki on one of the setups (also feeds a 2 channel speaker setup) which does a nice job of fine tuning the sound when the amp, DAC and myriad of headphones just doesn’t deliver the sound my brain desires on a given day.


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## BrotherKathos

Tuneslover said:


> My sentiments exactly however I only have 3 amp/DAC setups. Additionally I have a Schiit Loki on one of the setups (also feeds a 2 channel speaker setup) which does a nice job of fine tuning the sound when the amp, DAC and myriad of headphones just doesn’t deliver the sound my brain desires on a given day.


So far the best sounding headphones I have with the magni 3 are the Sennheiser hd 598 Cs. They are a little bassy to begin with and are able to bring the lower end up a bit to match the magni 3's brightness. I bet the Audeze LCD2C will work perfectly with the magni 3 and am looking forward to getting them. Even with the bassy veiled Sennheisers, the treble on the magni 3 is still not to my liking.


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## BrotherKathos

I just tried switching the El amp and magni's dacs around to see if that was causing the brightness. I was using a topping D50 with the magni 3 originally and I switched to the SMSL SU-8 I had hooked up to the El Amp. Well its sounds exactly the same to me afterwards lol. Same old magni 3 brightness. On another note I also found that I can tell absolutely zero difference between the D50 and SU-8 via rca on either the Magi 3 or El amp. They(the dacs) are both the same price and use the same sabre 9038 chips so I guess that is part of the reason. Although I've seen that the D50 measures better than the SU-8, but I can't tell at all. At least from the music I've been sampling since the switch. I can absolutely tell a difference between the El Amp and magni 3 though. To my ears the El amp reigns supreme.


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## sennsay

Nope. I've tried. I've tried to get my Magni 3 to sound 'bright' as an amp. As a whole, nada. Zip. Got my HD540 Ref1s on right now, USB/Kimber/Jitterbug out to the R2R as a DAC only and using my finest pure silver ICs into the Magni 3. Popped on one of the most slightly over-eq'd and brighter albums I've heard in a while - I Put A Spell On You by Michelle Brown and the Big Easy  ........ Sounds fantastic. Very slightly thin in the upper mids as a recording, yes, and the venerable Senns are telling me it could have been recorded a little sweeter, but def not bright. Musical, incredibly tuneful, and wonderfully alive it most certainly is, yet extremely listenable. Same with the Mimby.
 Ok, let's try Ben Harper and Charlie Musselwhite's latest rocking' album - No Mercy In This Land (fantastic album!) .... nope. Warm and kicking butt. Another that can be pushed into a touch of brightness with some electronics, Michelle Shocked and Arkansas traveller, full of life and great rhythms. The system is telling me that the recording could spell a little trouble with brighter electronics and headphones. Plenty of detail and string bite, yet no nasty edginess, grain or brightness as such that would make me question the gear or my ears. There is a definition that makes me listen in, a clean ambient space between instruments and musicians, I have to stop writing and because of the real sense of live humans singing (got Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young from a 1974 live concert on now) I cannot do both. No brightness, sibilances are not exaggerated and very clean, no wispiness here. With the R2R, it sounds wonderful, while not having quite that riveting focus of definition in space, I can still type and hear the music. The Magni 3 makes me _listen!_ Heightened further again using the QP1R and the Mimby.

Hmm, back to the R2R on it's own. Same Michelle Shocked album, really great, confirms that the R2R is certainly a 'warmer' proposition than as a DAC to the M3. The M3 thins the image density a bit in this combo, yet also provides a little more detail and transparency. I reckon for folks who really want a warmer sound system, the A-gd R2R-11 might be exactly what you're looking for. 
 Thing is, my Ref1s use the very transparent and extremely linear Mogami cable, something that I found found time and again to be way superior to the stock cable that comes with most of the mid priced Senn models. My recently vacated HD6xx's stock cable had quite a squashed mid-centric soundstage and a lower treble peak, something I really dislike. It might be just what some of you are hearing and the Mogami cable not only extended the soundstage boundaries, it also lessened much of that mid-forwardness of the stock cable I've also heard with other Senn models, HD650 included. I still sold them though, Ref1s rule in this household  
When I want to _really_ want to hear musical, humanly organic, alive and intimately communicative music that is more than just a recording, it's definitely the QP1R/Mimby/Magni 3/HD540 Ref1s system that does it so effortlessly. No brightness, only openness and an extended soundstage that has vertical depth as well as a transparent extension well outside my head and around to just behind my ears on good recordings. Bass is deep and linear, showing no sign at all of any peakiness. A recent on-line frequency test showed that the Ref1s (and by association my hearing) that can easily do 20Hz and right on up to 13.8KHz before I hear roll off. There were a couple of dips between 10KHz and the 13.8KHz roll off that wavered between the channels, no doubt differences between my left and right ears.
 My experiment this morning not only has helped me understand my own systems a little better, but also shows me that a brightness potential is possible with the Magni 3, yet I don't find it to be so as an electronic attribute in itself. It is in no way bright, using my system as described in the previous paragraph, in fact the gear vanishes, leaving only music. It still astonishes me. There is much more at play here, as others have alluded to.


----------



## BrotherKathos

sennsay said:


> Nope. I've tried. I've tried to get my Magni 3 to sound 'bright' as an amp. As a whole, nada. Zip. Got my HD540 Ref1s on right now, USB/Kimber/Jitterbug out to the R2R as a DAC only and using my finest pure silver ICs into the Magni 3. Popped on one of the most slightly over-eq'd and brighter albums I've heard in a while - I Put A Spell On You by Michelle Brown and the Big Easy  ........ Sounds fantastic. Very slightly thin in the upper mids as a recording, yes, and the venerable Senns are telling me it could have been recorded a little sweeter, but def not bright. Musical, incredibly tuneful, and wonderfully alive it most certainly is, yet extremely listenable. Same with the Mimby.
> Ok, let's try Ben Harper and Charlie Musselwhite's latest rocking' album - No Mercy In This Land (fantastic album!) .... nope. Warm and kicking butt. Another that can be pushed into a touch of brightness with some electronics, Michelle Shocked and Arkansas traveller, full of life and great rhythms. The system is telling me that the recording could spell a little trouble with brighter electronics and headphones. Plenty of detail and string bite, yet no nasty edginess, grain or brightness as such that would make me question the gear or my ears. There is a definition that makes me listen in, a clean ambient space between instruments and musicians, I have to stop writing and because of the real sense of live humans singing (got Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young from a 1974 live concert on now) I cannot do both. No brightness, sibilances are not exaggerated and very clean, no wispiness here. With the R2R, it sounds wonderful, while not having quite that riveting focus of definition in space, I can still type and hear the music. The Magni 3 makes me _listen!_ Heightened further again using the QP1R and the Mimby.
> 
> Hmm, back to the R2R on it's own. Same Michelle Shocked album, really great, confirms that the R2R is certainly a 'warmer' proposition than as a DAC to the M3. The M3 thins the image density a bit in this combo, yet also provides a little more detail and transparency. I reckon for folks who really want a warmer sound system, the A-gd R2R-11 might be exactly what you're looking for.
> ...



Like I posted earlier everyone has different ears, and mine just pick up highs more than the average as I'm fairly young and have always protected my ears by wearing protective gear at concerts, on airplanes and other venues where one might be exposed to loud noise. Its great your magni 3 sounds good to you, but sadly my ears don't find the magni 3 as enjoyable with my current equipment.


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## prymortal (Aug 29, 2018)

I Got a Magni3 the other week. Connected it up to the Sennheiser GSX1000 (because i can!!!...& have nothing else to use atm) Noticed right away more bass & soundstage on high gain. I Was using ATH-AD1000x so that was a shocker.
If im being brutally honest i expected more from it, it kinda feels underpowered from how far i had to turn up the volume let alone use hi gain for ATH-AD1000x's But i was double amp'ing, never done that before, so i assume thats why.


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## sennsay

BrotherKathos said:


> Like I posted earlier everyone has different ears, and mine just pick up highs more than the average as I'm fairly young and have always protected my ears by wearing protective gear at concerts, on airplanes and other venues where one might be exposed to loud noise. Its great your magni 3 sounds good to you, but sadly my ears don't find the magni 3 as enjoyable with my current equipment.


Heh heh, my ears _are_ likely somewhat older than yours  I still have brilliant hearing at 6.2 decades, it's great that you look after your hearing, as I have over the years. 
 I do notice though, that many of todays headphones have treble peaks I don't like, even my HE400S are thinner and a little perkier than my Ref1s, it's partly why I love the latter cans so much. The Magni 3 may indeed be 'brighter' than some other amps - the R2R is denser and darker - and I don't think peaky headphones will help at all. Or some of their cables. 
 As you so rightly say, some folks are just more sensitive to certain high frequencies than others, I most certainly am, but younger ears may be even more so. 
I'm still keen to hear an Ember


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## BrotherKathos

sennsay said:


> Heh heh, my ears _are_ likely somewhat older than yours  I still have brilliant hearing at 6.2 decades, it's great that you look after your hearing, as I have over the years.
> I do notice though, that many of todays headphones have treble peaks I don't like, even my HE400S are thinner and a little perkier than my Ref1s, it's partly why I love the latter cans so much. The Magni 3 may indeed be 'brighter' than some other amps - the R2R is denser and darker - and I don't think peaky headphones will help at all. Or some of their cables.
> As you so rightly say, some folks are just more sensitive to certain high frequencies than others, I most certainly am, but younger ears may be even more so.
> I'm still keen to hear an Ember



I still think the LCD2C will solve the problem for me. I really realy like my HE-400i phones, but would like a bit more bass and for there to be just the slightest bit less treble even with the el amp setup. I think The Audeze phones will be right up my alley and complement the magni 3 as well.
Anyone here audition that setup with a sabre dac?


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## Rensek

tafens said:


> I’ve had my Magni3 and ModiMB for about ten months too, the last five of which I’ve listened to them with the HD6XX. I loved them before with my HD600, but with the HD6XX I just can’t get enough.. an amazing combo they are



+1 on what he said. 9mo on magni 3 and 4 mo on Mimby.


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## riffrafff

Rensek said:


> +1 on what he said. 9mo on magni 3 and 4 mo on Mimby.



I've got 6 months on the Magni 3, 4 months on the mimby.  Nice, but still prefer the Vali 2 (with some tube rolling).


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## Rensek

riffrafff said:


> I've got 6 months on the Magni 3, 4 months on the mimby.  Nice, but still prefer the Vali 2 (with some tube rolling).



Yeah I have no experience with tubes. After I get my 2ch upgraded I will see about trying a Vali 2. Guess it might depend on whether I like Saga with tubes or if I prefer LISST.


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## BrotherKathos

riffrafff said:


> I've got 6 months on the Magni 3, 4 months on the mimby.  Nice, but still prefer the Vali 2 (with some tube rolling).


How much Hiss or pop and crackle do you get with the tube setup?


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## riffrafff

Rensek said:


> Yeah I have no experience with tubes. After I get my 2ch upgraded I will see about trying a Vali 2. Guess it might depend on whether I like Saga with tubes or if I prefer LISST.



I have not heard a LISST, but I believe Jason said something about, if you're going to go LISST (over tubes), why not just use a SS amp?  Paraphrasing here, of course.




BrotherKathos said:


> How much Hiss or pop and crackle do you get with the tube setup?



None.  Zip, zilch, nada.  No extraneous noise that I can detect.  And even the unlabeled "stock" tube it came with had no microphonics  (my other ones don't either).  (Current tube line-up: Sylvania 6CG7, Voskhod Rocket 6N2P-EB, Reflektor 6N3P-E, and the Tung-Sol 6SN7GT "Mouse Ears," pictured above.)


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## BrotherKathos

riffrafff said:


> I have not heard a LISST, but I believe Jason said something about, if you're going to go LISST (over tubes), why not just use a SS amp?  Paraphrasing here, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hmm, I might roll the dice on a tube amp in the future then.


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## Rensek

I'm considering saga because it's a pre amp, and it has a remote. I believe Jason's quote was in regards to putting LISST into Vali 2, which I wouldn't do. Magni 3 related I use the pre amp function daily. I prefer my crappy 2.1 desktop rig when m3 is used as a preamp


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## BrotherKathos

Rensek said:


> I'm considering saga because it's a pre amp, and it has a remote. I believe Jason's quote was in regards to putting LISST into Vali 2, which I wouldn't do. Magni 3 related I use the pre amp function daily. I prefer my crappy 2.1 desktop rig when m3 is used as a preamp



My magni 3 does work better as a preamp as well. It still does not beat the OL switcher though in that application. The OL switcher is passive. The power amp I'm using has a decent 30k ohm input impedance and a 1.6v input sensitivity with 30 db voltage gain so its fine for use with the D50 since the D50 puts out around 1.9vrms.


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## BrotherKathos

I'm going to compare my magni 3 to a 02 amp in a few days. Picked up the massdrop desktop version with the rear power and rca with the gain and 1/4 jack in front. Curious to see if I prefer it to the magni 3


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## BrotherKathos

One thing i've also noticed with my Magni 3 is that the channel balance is slightly off. Its biased to the left channel on my unit. Has anyone else experienced any channel imbalance with theirs?


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## rutter

I ran into this big time with a Loki for tonal balance based on turning the third knob. The replacement didn't have the problem. Magni 3 and Jotunheim units were balanced for me. If you're hearing an imbalance you should get a replacement or a repair.


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## BrotherKathos

rutter said:


> I ran into this big time with a Loki for tonal balance based on turning the third knob. The replacement didn't have the problem. Magni 3 and Jotunheim units were balanced for me. If you're hearing an imbalance you should get a replacement or a repair.


Its very slight, not a huge problem and I'm not sure if it would be worth my effort to send it in as the new one might be the same just biased another way. Its almost centered perfectly, just very slightly to the left. I did send back a pair of beyerdynamics for that reason though. That and the fact that I could only listen to them at low volumes bc the V shapes freq response was very fatiguing. I had the 770 pro 250 ohm ones.


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## rutter

Same headphone I had and returned it too. Fatiguing and generally sucked. Any perceptible channel imbalance would be unacceptable to me. You'll be using this amplifier for a while and then maybe reselling it. This is not a feature or a byproduct.


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## Rensek

Honest question, how do you determine channel imbalance to be the fault of the amp, as opposed a fault in the recording? Do all songs drift that way or just some. I was listening to the This is Aretha playlist on Spotify the other day and seemed as if 80 percent of the music was coming out of the left channel when listening to it on my desktop speakers, driven by Magni 3.


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## DavidA

Rensek said:


> Honest question, how do you determine channel imbalance to be the fault of the amp, as opposed a fault in the recording? Do all songs drift that way or just some. I was listening to the This is Aretha playlist on Spotify the other day and seemed as if 80 percent of the music was coming out of the left channel when listening to it on my desktop speakers, driven by Magni 3.


Use a mono test tone since it should be the same to the left and right


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## Rensek

Ok, where does one find a mono test tone. I just use streaming services.


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## RickB

Rensek said:


> Ok, where does one find a mono test tone. I just use streaming services.



https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mono+test+tone


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## Rensek

RickB said:


> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mono+test+tone



Thanks, should have known. You tube has everything.


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## qtiefi

how is the magni with hd800s?


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## tamleo (Sep 1, 2018)

Hello guys,
i have been listening to the Magni 3 for a week. It is the most detailed sounding amplifier from Schiit i have heard. It sounds much better than the Asgard1, Asgard 2, Magni 2, Vali 2 and the Mjolnir 1. But just a little better than the Magni2u. The treble on the M3 is somewhat thick and lacks of the metalic spark from Chimes and Triangles instrument. So i like the treble on the M2u more.
However the M3 has the powerful sub-bass and low mids that the M2u somewhat lacks.
Because of this kind of treble and bass, the M3 sounded very warm at the first listening.
The mids on the M2u and M3 makes the Asgard2's mids dull, simple and undetailed.
They make the bass on the Mjolnir 1 sounds soft.
I don't know if there is a better p/p amp than the M3..


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## BrotherKathos

qtiefi said:


> how is the magni with hd800s?[/QU





tamleo said:


> Hello guys,
> i have been listening to the Magni 3 for a week. It is the most detailed sounding amplifier from Schiit i have heard. It sounds much better than the Asgard1, Asgard 2, Magni 2, Vali 2 and the Mjolnir 1. But just a little better than the Magni2u. The treble on the M3 is somewhat thick and lacks of the metalic spark from Chimes and Triangles instrument. So i like the treble on the M2u more.
> However the M3 has the powerful sub-bass and low mids that the M2u somewhat lacks.
> Because of this kind of treble and bass, the M3 sounds very warm at the first listening.
> ...



What source and headphones are you listening too? Your results are very different from my own. One of the things I absolutely can not call the magni 3 is warm. Its significantly brighter than both my audioengine D1 and JDS Labs El amp as well as the internal hp out on my marantz sr7009 reciever. The bass is weaker, but there is more detail in the upper midrange, most likely due to the bumped treble. I've tried it with two different sabre dacs and also the rca outs from my D1, all with the same resulting brightness. This is the same with all my headphones except for my Sennheiser hd598 cs which are darker and bassier than all other of my phones.


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## tamleo (Sep 1, 2018)

BrotherKathos said:


> What source and headphones are you listening too? Your results are very different from my own. One of the things I absolutely can not call the magni 3 is warm. Its significantly brighter than both my audioengine D1 and JDS Labs El amp as well as the internal hp out on my marantz sr7009 reciever. The bass is weaker, but there is more detail in the upper midrange, most likely due to the bumped treble. I've tried it with two different sabre dacs and also the rca outs from my D1, all with the same resulting brightness. This is the same with all my headphones except for my Sennheiser hd598 cs which are darker and bassier than all other of my phones.


Hi,
Sorry for my English. I meant I thought the M3 sounded very warm at first because its treble was thick and had no metallic-cold. After spending enough time with the amp and comparing it to other amps, M3 to my ear, is a mild-v-shaped sounding amp. But the mids range is super detailed and rich. My headphones are: LCD-2 r2 prefaz, dba02. My Micca speakers are lined-in from the M3. My dac is Mimby


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## Topmounter (Sep 4, 2018)

I just received a Magni 3 today and after reading most of this thread before purchasing, I see now why there were / are so many complaints regarding its output levels.  I'm feeding the Magni 3 with a Meridian Explorer 2 DAC using the line level out (Fixed 2V RMS).  On both my HD 650 and HE4xx headphones, I'm running the volume knob up quite a bit further than I would expect for 'comfortable' listening levels.  Maybe 2 o'clock for louder songs and 4 o'clock for quieter songs (with 5 o'clock being 100%).

Music so far has been either FLAC CD rips or HiFi streams from Tidal both via Roon w/ volume set to 'Fixed' on an iMac.  During the initial setup and test, I was playing a video clip in VLC whose audio levels were a bit low and I was very concerned since I had the Magni 3 cranked all the way up and the low output had me concerned.  I also have a pair of AE2 powered speakers connected to the pre-amp output and I had to turn those down quite a bit to get rid of any low level hiss, but it is rare than I listen to those loud so it shouldn't be an issue.  I suppose the net is that low source levels can be problematic for the Magni 3.

It's very early, but listening impressions so far have been positive.  I've been using a Fulla 2 on this machine, which seemed to get to 'comfortable' listening levels sooner on its volume knob and to 'too loud' easily (albeit probably overdriving its amplifier, which does not appear to be the case w/ the Magni 3).  I'm using a Mytek Brooklyn in my 2ch speaker rig, so I'll be curious to compare it with the Explorer2 / Magni 3 combo, but I expect I'll replace the Explorer2 in the near future for my desktop setup.


----------



## BrotherKathos

I just got the Massdrop Desktop O2 amp and am now able to compare it to the magni 3. I had the magni 3 on constantly playing music for almost 2 weeks. I only turned it off maybe 4 times in that time period to just let it heat cycle. I had it on today right when I got back from picking up the O2 amp and wanted to listen to it for a bit to get a baseline for the comparison. After listening for about 10 mins I tuned it off and hooked up the O2 amp. Immediately I noticed that the O2 amp has a much more open sound. I'm listening on a pair of Sennhesier HD 598 Cs and to make them sound more open is an achievement. 

The O2 amp is much less tin can in your ear sounding than the magni 3. Vocals are a huge improvement as well. Background echos are also more pronounced. There is a tiny bit more bass, but much less of the piercing treble peaks with S sounds and other bad harmonics the magni 3 has. Its also odd that I'm listening to the O2 amp at the same volume position as the Magni 3. I would have thought I'd need to turn it up more to get the same volume since its supposedly much less powerfull than the magni 3 and the version I ordered is the 1.0x and 3.3x gain model. I'm listening to it at 1.0x gain and its plenty of volume for me even as low as 8:45. The background is also much more black and silent compared to the magni 3. All in all the O2 is leagues ahead in musicality than the magni 3 I own. I so much wanted to like the magni 3, but I think its time for me to just sell it to a friend and recoup my money since I'm most likely out of the 15 day trial period.


----------



## BrotherKathos

I finally found a dac that sounds good with the magni 3. My Sennheiser HD 598 cs were the only cans i liked previously, and now my iphone 6s is the only source that makes the magni 3 sound decent. It tames the overabundant grainy treble and finally gives the music a smoothness that was lacking before. I can only guess that since the iphone dac is much less pronounced in the higher frequencies it balances the sound out. Sabre dacs are much too neutral and precise for the magni 3 i guess and with them the magni 3 adds too much of its own schiit sound and does not mix well. I recommend the warmest dacs possible with this amp. It actually sounds pretty nice with my iphone. Its the longest listening session i’ve had while being satisfied with the music on a wide range of tracks.


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## sennsay (Sep 6, 2018)

Sorry guys, but an overabundant grainy treble is NOT native to the Magni 3. I don't deny you are hearing something like that, but I have used my M3 both with the R2R-11 and Modi Multibit DACs as well as straight into the amp with my QP1R and with the output of a DVD and CD players and I get no grainy treble at all unless the recording is grainy or coarse in itself. This is whether I use the HE400S, my favourite HD540 Ref1s, Sony MDR-1Rs, Senn HD250 Linear, or the slightly elevated treble of the Senn HD430s. Clean as. The output of some sources can be a little grainier than others though, the QP1R (my usual HQ source) via optical out, is as clean as they come. Pure, clean treble, revealing only recordings that are less so for what they are.
The Magni 3 _might_ be classed by some as being a little 'brighter' than the smoothest amps out there, and indeed compared to the R2R-11 it is more transparent, open and a little more brightly lit, but naturally grainy it is not. Or, conversely, the R2R is certainly darker and less neutral than the M3. I sold my Valhalla 2 for a Mimby and am better off for that. The V2 _was_ grainy! Even with better tubes. The Magni 3 was purer, cleaner, far less coarse and more extended.
 What is probably far more important to recreating a musical event is not really the constant relative brightness/darkness/right/wrong endless left-brained discussion, it's how does an assembled pairing of electronics make you _FEEL!_  Does it connect you with the emotional communication and expression of the music? Does it portray the immediate sense of rhythmic integrity and the timing of the way the notes connect and flow that makes your heart sing? You sing, you dance, or at least tap your feet and toes, nod your head. It doesn't take any thinking about it to do that, it happens intuitively within the body and before you even realise it your body is singing and moving. All else vanishes if you are in the moment.
 My QP1R/Mimby/M3/HD540 Ref1 set up makes the gear vanish. There is only music. I never think about the technicalities because the sheer level of communication skills and human expression over-rides everything, in fact it IS everything in this system for me. Effortlessly. Maybe not for you.
 My HD430s are far more brightly lit than the M3, yet with the R2R are so incredibly clean and transparent the results can be spectacular, with fabulous insight. Not such a good match with the M3, yet there is still no grain, just an imbalance issue.
 It's easy to get lost in mere technicalities and constant comparisons and lose sight of why you wanted to get some head gear in the first place. Presumably to _listen_ to music, hearing is only done with the ears, the rest is all heart. Do we forget that we're talking just $99 here? On several levels that's astonishing!
The match-up I use for most off my listening (as described above) takes me into the music on levels that vastly more expensive kit I've had over the years has not done to the degree of the vanishing act that I experience now. Not in 45 years. Yes, I'm aware that the system has some limitations technically, even ultimately sonically, but what it does do it shares so brilliantly and with such a cohesive wholeness of human expression that it totally belies the price and much I've heard far beyond it. The sum of the parts is outrageously bigger than the two small boxes connected with some silver and a pair of improved 29 year old headphones.
 The stock cable with the HD6xx was edgier, pinched in the soundstage and a tad coarse until replaced with the Mogami cable. As is the stock cable that came with the Senn HD540s! Replace them and all grain goes, consequently allowing a better disappearing act to follow. I suspect excessive brightness and certainly any 'grain' comes from whatever comes before the Magni 3. For example, my own Audioquest Evergreen cable that I occasionally use from the line out of the QP1R to the M3, or another amp, is good yet definitely less refined than the silver cables I use between the Mimby and M3, or the QP1R using optical out.
 It takes time to assemble a really good system that truly sings, more often than not. Fine tuning can take weeks and sometimes months.
 If your Magni 3 is only hours or days old, give it some time. It _*is*_ capable ... despite it's budget pricing .... of a quite remarkable 3D soundstage ( Ricki Lee Jones' Naked Songs live album literally brings her incredible voice intimately right to me, yet the audience is all around and in front of me, in depth and height to just behind my ears, voices, claps, gasps and coughs suspended in space, often seeming to be metres away with just clean air between them and me. I'm sometimes shocked at what I can pick up at very low levels. It takes a really pure source and good electronics to do that and not for one second am I drawn to any overriding 'brightness' coming from the electronics. Sure, there are brighter recordings, easily portrayed and very easy to hear that it was done so in the recording studio, yet the flesh and blood warmth of the human voice is still there behind it.
 Chameleon-like, the sheer weight and chewy warmth of the bass on the Random Access Memories album shows the ability of the Mimby/M3 to switch to dance mode, away from the hypnotic focus of Ricki's vocal dynamics and express with alacrity what a fabulous recording RAM really is. I use Giorgio Moroder's voice here as a reference for all other gear to match and it often doesn't to some degree, only the QP1R as a DAP with the HifiMAN HE400S (Focus A pads) is 'better' and by the slimmest of margins. The M3 has it untainted with any of the excessive warm colouration I've heard elsewhere, never coloured by any of the solid synth bass around it, separated in space and sounding more real and human as I've heard on anything else. The electronically manipulated vocals on other tracks are a joy to follow, diction is explicit without any form of brightness or edge to highlight it.
 Always, the gear, my head and the headphones dissolve away to leave only a musical event, stepping _into_ the musicians' space amongst them, instead of viewing them from the other side of the studio window.
 My Magni 3 is definitely a keeper, even if and when I create a larger system with an Yggy, for the reasons expressed above. It is capable of far more than I often see from the experience of other Head-Fiers here. Each to their own though, and folks will just do what they want to do, I just chose to get everything I could out of my system and the results have been and are a continuing musical joy 
 I almost forgot to add something I have mentioned some time ago, in my experience the optical input of the Mimby (used as a pair with the M3) gives purer and slightly smoother results than via USB, the opposite when using the R2R, which had the excellent Amanero combo USB input. I haven't heard if anyone else has experienced this yet. Just a thought.


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 6, 2018)

sennsay said:


> Sorry guys, but an overabundant grainy treble is NOT native to the Magni 3. I don't deny you are hearing something like that, but I have used my M3 both with the R2R-11 and Modi Multibit DACs as well as straight into the amp with my QP1R and with the output of a DVD and CD players and I get no grainy treble at all unless the recording is grainy or coarse in itself. This is whether I use the HE400S, my favourite HD540 Ref1s, Sony MDR-1Rs, Senn HD250 Linear, or the slightly elevated treble of the Senn HD430s. Clean as. The output of some sources can be a little grainier than others though, the QP1R (my usual HQ source) via optical out, is as clean as they come. Pure, clean treble, revealing only recordings that are less so for what they are.
> The Magni 3 _might_ be classed by some as being a little 'brighter' than the smoothest amps out there, and indeed compared to the R2R-11 it is more transparent, open and a little more brightly lit, but naturally grainy it is not. Or, conversely, the R2R is certainly darker and less neutral than the M3. I sold my Valhalla 2 for a Mimby and am better off for that. The V2 _was_ grainy! Even with better tubes. The Magni 3 was purer, cleaner, far less coarse and more extended.
> What is probably far more important to recreating a musical event is not really the constant relative brightness/darkness/right/wrong endless left-brained discussion, it's how does an assembled pairing of electronics make you _FEEL!_  Does it connect you with the emotional communication and expression of the music? Does it portray the immediate sense of rhythmic integrity and the timing of the way the notes connect and flow that makes your heart sing? You sing, you dance, or at least tap your feet and toes, nod your head. It doesn't take any thinking about it to do that, it happens intuitively within the body and before you even realise it your body is singing and moving. All else vanishes if you are in the moment.
> My QP1R/Mimby/M3/HD540 Ref1 set up makes the gear vanish. There is only music. I never think about the technicalities because the sheer level of communication skills and human expression over-rides everything, in fact it IS everything in this system for me. Effortlessly. Maybe not for you.
> ...



Have you tried the magni 3 with any sabre dacs? The multibit ones are known for being on the dimmer side in the highs right?  I did get a decent 3d soundstage as you mentioned with the magni 3, but the Massdrop O2 amp I just got right out of the box sounded better in every way. Sound stage, bass, treble, and smoothness etc. Maybe I just got a bad magni, or my personal preferences just don't mesh well with the schiit sound of the magni 3? I do like it with the iphone though. Its much smoother up top with the phone as a source. I've never really liked any kind of brightness in my music. One of the reasons i've always hated b&w, bose and klipsch.


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## lantian

sennsay said:


> Sorry guys, but an overabundant grainy treble is NOT native to the Magni 3. I don't deny you are hearing something like that, but I have used my M3 both with the R2R-11 and Modi Multibit DACs as well as straight into the amp with my QP1R and with the output of a DVD and CD players and I get no grainy treble at all unless the recording is grainy or coarse in itself. This is whether I use the HE400S, my favourite HD540 Ref1s, Sony MDR-1Rs, Senn HD250 Linear, or the slightly elevated treble of the Senn HD430s. Clean as. The output of some sources can be a little grainier than others though, the QP1R (my usual HQ source) via optical out, is as clean as they come. Pure, clean treble, revealing only recordings that are less so for what they are.
> The Magni 3 _might_ be classed by some as being a little 'brighter' than the smoothest amps out there, and indeed compared to the R2R-11 it is more transparent, open and a little more brightly lit, but naturally grainy it is not. Or, conversely, the R2R is certainly darker and less neutral than the M3. I sold my Valhalla 2 for a Mimby and am better off for that. The V2 _was_ grainy! Even with better tubes. The Magni 3 was purer, cleaner, far less coarse and more extended.
> What is probably far more important to recreating a musical event is not really the constant relative brightness/darkness/right/wrong endless left-brained discussion, it's how does an assembled pairing of electronics make you _FEEL!_  Does it connect you with the emotional communication and expression of the music? Does it portray the immediate sense of rhythmic integrity and the timing of the way the notes connect and flow that makes your heart sing? You sing, you dance, or at least tap your feet and toes, nod your head. It doesn't take any thinking about it to do that, it happens intuitively within the body and before you even realise it your body is singing and moving. All else vanishes if you are in the moment.
> My QP1R/Mimby/M3/HD540 Ref1 set up makes the gear vanish. There is only music. I never think about the technicalities because the sheer level of communication skills and human expression over-rides everything, in fact it IS everything in this system for me. Effortlessly. Maybe not for you.
> ...


Have to agree with this. My own impressions are that it is a very transparent and crystal clear amp(had to get a power filter for it though). My fiio x7 mk2 loves that amp and so does my brothers x7 and my own lenovo vibe x3(only with sabre dac active, otherwise the wolofson dac is terrible),axon 7 mini with it's akm dac. Only devices that have issues are old samsung s7, htc m8, and my dads iphone x, neither of them have sound that could be described as good or even enjoyable. The way I see it finding a amp should not be problem as long as the source is clean.


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## Topmounter (Sep 6, 2018)

BrotherKathos said:


> Have you tried the magni 3 with any sabre dacs? The multibit ones are known for being on the dimmer side in the highs right?  I did get a decent 3d soundstage as you mentioned with the magni 3, but the Massdrop O2 amp I just got right out of the box sounded better in every way. Sound stage, bass, treble, and smoothness etc. Maybe I just got a bad magni, or my personal preferences just don't mesh well with the schiit sound of the magni 3? I do like it with the iphone though. Its much smoother up top with the phone as a source. I've never really liked any kind of brightness in my music. One of the reasons i've always hated b&w, bose and klipsch.



Interesting.  I can't say I'm noticing any particular trend towards 'brightness' with the Magni 3, but I don't have a standalone headphone amp to compare it with such as the O2.  I do own a Mytek Brooklyn, but it's in my 2ch speaker system.  I have yet to compare its headphone output with the Magni 3 / Explorer2 pairing (for which my only reference point currently is the Fulla 2).

I did buy a pair of Massdrop's Hifiman HE4xx planars that I received at the same time as the Magni 3.  It's still early days, but I do seem to hear a bit of grain at times in some songs with those headphones that I don't hear with my HD650 headphones (I've been listening under the assumption that this is a characteristic of planar headphones though).  I suppose I should identify a song where I hear grain consistently with the HE4xx's and then see if I still hear it with the Brooklyn (I need to be careful though since I don't really want to shell out the bucks for a second Brooklyn


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 6, 2018)

Topmounter said:


> Interesting.  I can't say I'm noticing any particular trend towards 'brightness' with the Magni 3, but I don't have a standalone headphone amp to compare it with such as the O2.  I do own a Mytek Brooklyn, but it's in my 2ch speaker system.  I have yet to compare its headphone output with the Magni 3 / Explorer2 pairing.



My magni 3 is alot brighter and harsher as you raise the volume than both my O2 amp and JDS Labs EL Amp. Sounds much less refined by comparison. Its got this grating quality to it as you turn up the volume. I've looked around for a reason for why this might be and i found this on audiosciencereview in a comparison between the magni 3 and topping A30.  "Turning up the level from medium to high, caused one of the units to get bright. Identifying that unit showed it was Magni 3. It is ever so slightly brighter which can indicate to some as more soundstage or detail -- none of which are true. The extra distortion generated by Magni 3 increases the high frequency content and hence that subjective impression. No real change was there in any other fidelity aspects no matter how much I concentrated." I'd have to agree with this as its exactly what I experience as I listen to the magni 3. It gets harsher as you raise the volume. If I'd seen this review before I'd most likely not have bought the magni 3 in the first place. Oh well, probably be easy to sell as lots of people seem to like it.

Link to forum:https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...g-a30-and-schiit-magni-3-headphone-amps.4024/


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## Topmounter

BrotherKathos said:


> My magni 3 is alot brighter and harsher as you raise the volume than both my O2 amp and JDS Labs EL Amp. Sounds much less refined by comparison. Its got this grating quality to it as you turn up the volume. I've looked around for a reason for why this might be and i found this on audiosciencereview in a comparison between the magni 3 and topping A30.  "Turning up the level from medium to high, caused one of the units to get bright. Identifying that unit showed it was Magni 3. It is ever so slightly brighter which can indicate to some as more soundstage or detail -- none of which are true. The extra distortion generated by Magni 3 increases the high frequency content and hence that subjective impression. No real change was there in any other fidelity aspects no matter how much I concentrated." I'd have to agree with this as its exactly what I experience as I listen to the magni 3. It gets harsher as you raise the volume. If I'd seen this review before I'd most likely not have bought the magni 3 in the first place. Oh well, probably be easy to sell as lots of people seem to like it.
> 
> Link to forum:https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...g-a30-and-schiit-magni-3-headphone-amps.4024/



Did the ASR post say whether they tried multiple devices to see if the effect was consistent?  While the vast majority of Magni 3 posts here are positive, there does seem to be a certain percentage of people that report issues and I wonder if there is some inherent manufacturing variability that Schiit’s qc process missed or whether there is something about the Magni 3 that makes it more sensitive to DAC output voltage / impedance levels.


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## sennsay (Sep 7, 2018)

Topmounter said:


> Interesting.  I can't say I'm noticing any particular trend towards 'brightness' with the Magni 3, but I don't have a standalone headphone amp to compare it with such as the O2.  I do own a Mytek Brooklyn, but it's in my 2ch speaker system.  I have yet to compare its headphone output with the Magni 3 / Explorer2 pairing (for which my only reference point currently is the Fulla 2).
> 
> I did buy a pair of Massdrop's Hifiman HE4xx planars that I received at the same time as the Magni 3.  It's still early days, but I do seem to hear a bit of grain at times in some songs with those headphones that I don't hear with my HD650 headphones (I've been listening under the assumption that this is a characteristic of planar headphones though).  I suppose I should identify a song where I hear grain consistently with the HE4xx's and then see if I still hear it with the Brooklyn (I need to be careful though since I don't really want to shell out the bucks for a second Brooklyn


Yes, I agree with the HE4xx comments for the most part, my HE400S (Focus A pads) sound good with the M3, but magnificent straight out of the QP1R. Go figure that 40mW of Class A is amazingly pure, yet that slight treble peak is more noticeable through the M3 with many times the output power, yet the M3 does not have a treble peak.
 The cleaner your source, the better the Magni 3 will sound and this is fully confirmed by Steven Stone from the Absolute Sound magazine in his own tests with the M3. He too confirmed it's ability to self-upgrade with better sources, comparing it directly with the $2199 Sony TA-ZH1ES, with same source, DAC and matched volume settings, he could not reliably tell the difference between them. He also used it as a preamp into the Mytek Brooklyn and it offered comparable fidelity to listening directly through the Mytek, both sounding exceedingly clean with well defined inner detail. He also stated that it was in no way outclassed when used with very expensive transducers costing many times more than the M3. This is exactly my experience, down to using the $400+ Slinkylinks pure silver interconnects between the Mimby and M3.
 Steven Stone's review is well worth seeking out, I've got it from the Absolute Sound Ultimate Headphone Guide, Summer 2018.
 My HD540 Ref1s are utterly grainless and smooth through the Schiit stack and also as they are right at this very moment via USB out of the MacBook (24/96 output) into the A-gd R2R-11 as a DAC, silver cables into the Magni 3. Volume with the Ref1s is at 11PM on the M3, plenty loud enough! Punchy, tight, clean and alive. No 'brightness' at all, the R2R ripping out the rhythms on Sting's 57th & 9th album. Via the QP1R/Mimby I often have it set from 1 o'clock to 3:30, no problems and superb sound quality. Switching to the HE400S, I have to drop the volume a tad to 9:30/10pm. Great focus, detail, intimacy and communication. The Senn Ref1s have better depth between guitar and close miked vocals, as in two separate entities with their own ambient space, more real, both alive in their own way. Going back to the HE400S, some wispiness to the vocals come in and that blackness between the vocals and backing instruments becomes smeared, losing my ability to focus in on any instrument with effortless ease. They will be receiving their own Mogami cable shortly. 
The Ref1s show the slight sibilance without smearing or highlighting it, the wispy 'sses' stay with Sting's lips and just become a natural part of the voice. They do this with all recordings, it's why I love them so much for listening to music, they just sound real and human without the hyper-detailing of so many modern bits of kit. You don't need ultra-detail to hear flesh and blood fingertips on a tabla (drum), they can sound utterly true to life without needing to do that. It's part of the reason why Schiit Audio do not particularly like the Sigma-Delta DACs, the multibit DACs (including the R2R I'm currently listening through) have a naturalness that evades so much of modern electronics. That's not to dis a lot of great gear as such, spectacular ultra-clarity is not what you hear from natural instruments and the human voice though. Once you've heard what this flesh and blood naturalness sounds like, anything unlike it really stands out. The Magni 3 will easily show up all before it, becoming the chameleon (or the octopus, if sea creatures are more to your liking) as different albums are directed to it's inputs.
 I've moved to the excellent local Australian album, Milk & Honey by OKA (2011), all wispiness vanishes, to be replaced with warmth and weight, the vocals almost taking a back seat to the driving deep bass rhythms. I've seen these guys, they are a fabulous and very popular live dance act.
Both the R2R and the Mimby have a liquid rhythmic flow to all music put through them. The R2R darker and a little more bass-focused, with a wonderful natural flow. The Mimby neutral, more transparent and 3D, purer treble detail and focus, incredibly alive in my set-up with even greater living independence of each individual instrument and voice. Lorde's overdubbed vocals to the side of the soundstage are every bit as solid, warm and obviously female as the central voice, adding an astonishing realism to the music, they aren't thinned as happens so often with many other headphones and gear I've heard. I went back to the Ref1s for listening some time ago, I haven't gone back to the HE400S. The Magni 3 has vanished, I'm barely even aware that I'm wearing any headphones, the bones of my skull have seemingly disappeared. No hifi system, there is only music. Anything less is just gear in the way.


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 7, 2018)

Topmounter said:


> Did the ASR post say whether they tried multiple devices to see if the effect was consistent?  While the vast majority of Magni 3 posts here are positive, there does seem to be a certain percentage of people that report issues and I wonder if there is some inherent manufacturing variability that Schiit’s qc process missed or whether there is something about the Magni 3 that makes it more sensitive to DAC output voltage / impedance levels.



I think the only unit that was tested was his personal one. I think alot of it comes down to personal preferences. the measurements clearly show that the magni 3 distorts much earlier than amps like the topping that are rated for less power. this makes the magni 3 seem brighter, but to more sensitive ears the distortion causes bad grainy harmonics. to less sensitive ears it gives the magni 3 that sparlke and faux clearness that many seem to like. this could be a design flaw, or somthing intentional to balance out the output of the multibit dacs. i would not rule out manufacturing varieties either bc well very cheap product. The o2 amp seems to suffer from this as well bc i’ve seen very different reviews from people that either built their own or gotten ones from massdrop or jds or mayflower etc. also cheap product. looks like these all might just be lottery products.


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## sennsay (Sep 7, 2018)

BrotherKathos said:


> I think the only unit that was tested was his personal one. I think alot of it comes down to personal preferences. the measurements clearly show that the magni 3 distorts much earlier than amps like the topping that are rated for less power. this makes the magni 3 seem brighter, but to more sensitive ears the distortion causes bad grainy harmonics. to less sensitive ears it gives the magni 3 that sparlke and faux clearness that many seem to like. this could be a design flaw, or somthing intentional to balance out the output of the multibit dacs. i would not rule out manufacturing varieties either bc well very cheap product. The o2 amp seems to suffer from this as well bc i’ve seen very different reviews from people that either built their own or gotten ones from massdrop or jds or mayflower etc. also cheap product. looks like these all might just be lottery products.


No distortion, 'faux clearness', bad pot, graininess, noise, lack of power ( I regularly run my 600 ohm Ref1s to 4 o'clock without edge, fatigue, brightness, distortion) or need to balance out a multibit DAC with the Magni 3 I have here. I've said enough to clearly show that I have an absolute cracker of an amp, as has Steven Stone, mentioned in my last post (and others).
 If all those negative issues is truly the experience of others here, and NOT because of limitations in the electronics, cables and whatever else before the amp, let alone edgy headphones and cables, then _maybe_ there is a QC issue with some items. Possibly too there could be the quality of the mains entering the equation, as has been mentioned not so far back here in the thread. My systems are utterly silent.
 I have just come back to the A-gd R2R as DAC into Magni 3 and Ref1s after some hours away, popped on some classical music and it is nothing less than musical joy. The tiniest of tings on a triangle are suspended in black space at a very low level, the expression of duller ting nearer the hand holding it, compared to the ringing tap on the bottom is so effortless to hear, creating it's own ambient resonance into the surrounding space. Strings are rich and sonorously resonant as they should be. I can 'look' right into the very depths of the soundstage. If you are not getting these sorts of results, then you are certainly not getting the best from your Magni 3 and I wish you well in your journey to create whatever you want from your system.


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 7, 2018)

sennsay said:


> No distortion, 'faux clearness', bad pot, graininess, noise, lack of power ( I regularly run my 600 ohm Ref1s to 4 o'clock without edge, fatigue, brightness, distortion) or need to balance out a multibit DAC with the Magni 3 I have here. I've said enough to clearly show that I have an absolute cracker of an amp, as has Steven Stone, mentioned in my last post (and others).
> If all those negative issues is truly the experience of others here, and NOT because of limitations in the electronics, cables and whatever else before the amp, let alone edgy headphones and cables, then _maybe_ there is a QC issue with some items. Possibly too there could be the quality of the mains entering the equation, as has been mentioned not so far back here in the thread. My systems are utterly silent.
> I have just come back to the A-gd R2R as DAC into Magni 3 and Ref1s after some hours away, popped on some classical music and it is nothing less than musical joy. The tiniest of tings on a triangle are suspended in black space at a very low level, the expression of duller ting nearer the hand holding it, compared to the ringing tap on the bottom is so effortless to hear, creating it's own ambient resonance into the surrounding space. Strings are rich and sonorously resonant as they should be. I can 'look' right into the very depths of the soundstage. If you are not getting these sorts of results, then you are certainly not getting the best from your Magni 3 and I wish you well in your journey to create whatever you want from your system.



It might be a qc issue. The problem is the variance in peoples ears. Some people just zero in on certain frequencies others do not. I might have mentioned in the thread earlier that i've returned 3 different hp amps for either noise or shrill highs. Two were  essence hdacc 4k, and one was a teac ud-301. The hdacc both had low level hiss that was constantly present as soon as the unit even powered up. No other amps i've ever had had that issue and the ceo of the company, while half admitting that there was a small amount of hiss there, said the units were both working to spec. The teac was just shrill garbage and makes the magi 3 look heavenly by comparison.

What you said about a black background at low volumes actually parallels the audiosciencereview measurrement thread. He also found the magni 3 fine and silent at low volumes as do I. The magni 3 only gets shrill as you raise the volume and the distortion kicks in. What you perceive as musical joy as you crank up the volume is most likely a by product of the distortion adding high frequency material leading to a percieved increase in sound stage. But unless you sent your unit in for testing by the same test bench who really knows? As far as the journey to find the right spot for the Magni 3 I believe I have found it. It works well as a bedside hp amp for streaming tidal hifi from my iphone. The magni 3 in that application provides a subtle increase in sound quality over the iphone's internal amp and pairs well with the low 23 ohm and easy to drive Sennheiser HD 598 Cs. I can only theorize that the lower fidelity dac of the iphone tames the overabundant magni 3 treble and since its a an easy to drive headphone the magni 3 does not distort much even as i raise the volume more. This setup is buttery smooth and I have been enjoying the Blade runner Soundtrack from Vangellis this morning   I just don't recommend transparent sabre dacs for the magni 3 for any potential buyers. Stick to multibit or maybe the 'velvety' AKM dacs with this amp. It also makes me think schiit knows about this brightness since the only dacs they offer are multibit and AKM. Coincidence?


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## sennsay

I shall make no apologies in disagreeing with the comments re soundstage increase due to raised volume and distortion  That is not my experience at all. Whether I use low volume or higher volumes, the soundstage is just as deep and open and I do not get any shrillness from increased volume and background noise is still silent. I have done that very thing this evening, with both classical and rock at low and high levels, my musical joy being a result of the system synergy, connected with the best I have available, not increasing distortion. If I wanted that, I would have kept the Valhalla 2. My personal hearing response is great from 20Hz up to 14KHz, rolling off thereafter. The only way I get 'brightness' as an artefact from my Magni 3 is by connecting a source that that is not the smoothest of kit and that is certainly not the fault of the M3, it's just telling it like it is. The same goes for various recordings, yet even thinner recordings still sound like human beings and the recording engineer needs a good slap. Especially so for women vocalists. 
 I still recommend better cables for your cans! There are very good reasons I use Mogami cable for almost all of my headphones; transparency, extension, linearity and utter silence between notes, they are not used in the best studios for nothing! Meantime, I will continue to explore the world of music through the Magni 3 and associated kit, not in the least bothered by any shrill brightness as I turn the volume up. If that were happening, there is no way I could listen to Ricki Lee Jones' vocal dynamic power in all it's fabulous purity at 7-8 from 10 on the M3, it would be out the door with no looking back. The modern Sennheisers are not as linear as the HD540 Reference cans, especially with the pads I use and the Mogami cable. The HD6xx went out the door, they could not match their 29 year old ancestors in anything other than some slight extra detailing in the upper midband. They were also a little peaky in that area, something I don't like. 
 Steven Stone's article on the Magni 3in the previously mentioned Absolute Sound's Ultimate Headphone Guide is well worth reading. He nails it. Page 121.


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 7, 2018)

sennsay said:


> I shall make no apologies in disagreeing with the comments re soundstage increase due to raised volume and distortion  That is not my experience at all. Whether I use low volume or higher volumes, the soundstage is just as deep and open and I do not get any shrillness from increased volume and background noise is still silent. I have done that very thing this evening, with both classical and rock at low and high levels, my musical joy being a result of the system synergy, connected with the best I have available, not increasing distortion. If I wanted that, I would have kept the Valhalla 2. My personal hearing response is great from 20Hz up to 14KHz, rolling off thereafter. The only way I get 'brightness' as an artefact from my Magni 3 is by connecting a source that that is not the smoothest of kit and that is certainly not the fault of the M3, it's just telling it like it is. The same goes for various recordings, yet even thinner recordings still sound like human beings and the recording engineer needs a good slap. Especially so for women vocalists.
> I still recommend better cables for your cans! There are very good reasons I use Mogami cable for almost all of my headphones; transparency, extension, linearity and utter silence between notes, they are not used in the best studios for nothing! Meantime, I will continue to explore the world of music through the Magni 3 and associated kit, not in the least bothered by any shrill brightness as I turn the volume up. If that were happening, there is no way I could listen to Ricki Lee Jones' vocal dynamic power in all it's fabulous purity at 7-8 from 10 on the M3, it would be out the door with no looking back. The modern Sennheisers are not as linear as the HD540 Reference cans, especially with the pads I use and the Mogami cable. The HD6xx went out the door, they could not match their 29 year old ancestors in anything other than some slight extra detailing in the upper midband. They were also a little peaky in that area, something I don't like.
> Steven Stone's article on the Magni 3in the previously mentioned Absolute Sound's Ultimate Headphone Guide is well worth reading. He nails it. Page 121.



It sounds like its just the difference in our ears since i hear clearly to 16.5K(youtube fr test so not the most clinical) before rollong off. what i find uncomfortable in the magi you might not hear at all i guess? Thats why a large market is good, something for everyone.


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## BrotherKathos

BrotherKathos said:


> It sounds like its just the difference in our ears since i hear clearly to 16.5K(youtube fr test so not the most clinical) before rollong off. what i find uncomfortable in the magi you might not hear at all i guess? Thats why a large market is good, something for everyone.


its funny you mention better cables as I got some custom mogami cables for the he-400i and it made a slight impact, but definitely didn’t affect the harshness of the treble.


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## sennsay

BrotherKathos said:


> It sounds like its just the difference in our ears since i hear clearly to 16.5K before rollong off. what i find uncomfortable in the magi you might not hear at all i guess? Thats why a large market is good, something for everyone.


I also forgot to (re)mention that the Mimby/Magni 3 pairing still sounds at it's finest through the Optical input, rather than the USB input which is merely very good, but it's not an Amanero Combo job, or the latest version on the Yggy. It makes a difference. Remember too that I use silver cables that cost more some years ago than the Modi Multibit does now, they don't editorialise, just say it as it is. They let a lot through!


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## sennsay (Sep 7, 2018)

BrotherKathos said:


> its funny you mention better cables as I got some custom mogami cables for the he-400i and it made a slight impact, but definitely didn’t affect the harshness of the treble.


The Mogami cable isn't a tone control  It is linearly extended and neutral. I agree with you, the effect on the HD6xx I had was an improvement for sure, did not remove the lower treble peak, yet certainly opened up the bass extension and removed most of that somewhat pinched-to-the-centre soundstage of the stock cable.
The treble peak did become less noticeable and I could hear past it a little easier. Every time I went back to the stock cable though, it did not stay on for long. It had the same effect when I shifted it to the HD540 Ref1s for a while. Although it wasn't bad, the Mogami is way better with the Ref1s in creating that 'head and gear' disappearing act, to a lesser extent on the HD6xx. I still couldn't live with them, I'd always end up with the Ref1s on my head and there they'd stay.
 You see, you can't just make one little step and expect your whole system to evolve into something else again. It more often than not takes a series of small steps, sometimes slight, sometimes larger improvements that overall add up to a system sounding really great. I'm familiar with the process over a 45 year period starting from when I was 17 years old. I met great people that taught me a lot along the way, which I in turn could share with others. 
 You don't need hearing to bat level to know when something is bright or dull or distorting, one of my biggest teachers was a man who was deaf in one ear, could still play a piano perfectly and could hear the distortion on a cartridge when the turntable arm was a millimetre or two too high. He was always correct, drop that arm a couple of mil and the sound would snap into focus. He was also into his 70's at the time! 
 I still tune turntables like that to this day when needed. It's the sum of the parts that make a great listening experience, I've heard huge Infinity speakers that cost as much as my house did that were not a jot as satisfying in that system as the carefully crafted, tuned and vastly cheaper system I had in my home. 
 So many folks expect a new bit of kit to be great from day one just because it may have got good reviews and are disappointed when it isn't fabulous immediately. A very very rare thing! It's still the 'instant gratification' generational thing. All deeply connecting relationships, whether with a hifi system or another human being, take time to develop. 
 The Mogami cable is just one aspect that adds to the whole, as do the Slinkylinks interconnects, the pleather pads on the Ref1s, a decent optical cable from the QP1R to the Mimby etc.


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 7, 2018)

sennsay said:


> The Mogami cable isn't a tone control  It is linearly extended and neutral. I agree with you, the effect on the HD6xx I had was an improvement for sure, did not remove the lower treble peak, yet certainly opened up the bass extension and removed most of that somewhat pinched-to-the-centre soundstage of the stock cable.
> The treble peak did become less noticeable and I could hear past it a little easier. Every time I went back to the stock cable though, it did not stay on for long. It had the same effect when I shifted it to the HD540 Ref1s for a while. Although it wasn't bad, the Mogami is way better with the Ref1s in creating that 'head and gear' disappearing act, to a lesser extent on the HD6xx. I still couldn't live with them, I'd always end up with the Ref1s on my head and there they'd stay.



I also noticed the same thing in bass response with the mogami cable. I also got one of the new fantasia or whatever cable from amazon for the 598 cs and the bass was much improved over the stock 3m cable. Bigger difference than the stock he-400i cable. I’m curious to how I’ll like the HDxx. I’ve got one coming in october, so I’ll see how it does with the magni 3 then. I’ve got a pair of audeze lcd2c coming today as well so i also will test the magni with the sabre dacs one last time to see if that is a good match.


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## BrotherKathos

I just got the Audeze LCD-2C. I hooked them up to the magni 3 and put on a song that i'd been listening to with the hd 598 Cs and the iphone. I turned up the volume to get to the same volume level as before. I only needed around 8:45 for the 598 cs. I needed about 1:00 for the Audeze. Immediately I noticed the grainy shrill harmonics and lack of bass from the Magni 3. Sounded awful. I immediately switched the phones to my SU-8 and o2 amp setup and retested. I only needed 9:00 to get to the same volume with the O2 amp on 1.0x gain!? I think I must have really gotten a schiit unit, because not only was the O2 able to power the planars easier, I was able to hear more of the recording since the sound was not so shrill and grainy. Magni 3 sounds like a piece of schiit for sure on the LCD-2C. I think this all but proves the magni 3 having very distorted sound as you raise the volume. this is at least the case on my unit and others that report brightness as well as the test unit from audiosciencereview. I wonder if schiit would be willing to take my unit back under warranty to at least test this?


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## Topmounter (Sep 7, 2018)

Are you guys running the Magni 3 on the high or low gain setting?  It just occurred to me this morning after my first cup of coffee that I had forgotten about this switch and have had it set to low since receiving my Magni 3 last week.  Set to 'HI', the progression on the volume knob now feels 'normal' to me.  Still nothing harsh or untoward w/ the HE4xx's after a few songs, but comfortable listening levels are well within what I would call the 'sweet spot' of the volume pot now (~10 to 2 o'clock) with plenty of opportunity for hearing damage remaining.

I just ran the High Freq Range Test at audiocheck.net, I starting hearing the tone at 16k, but it kicks in 100% at 14k (HE4xx).


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## BrotherKathos

Topmounter said:


> Are you guys running the Magni 3 on the high or low gain setting?  It just occurred to me this morning after my first cup of coffee that I had forgotten about this switch and have had it set to low since receiving my Magni 3 last week.  Set to 'HI', the progression on the volume knob now feels 'normal' to me now.  Still nothing harsh or untoward w/ the HE4xx's after a few songs, but comfortable listening levels are well within what I would call the 'sweet spot' of the volume pot now (~10 to 2 o'clock) with plenty of opportunity for hearing damage remaining.
> 
> I just ran the High Freq Range Test at audiocheck.net, I starting hearing the tone at 16k, but it kicks in 100% at 14k (HE4xx).



I'm running low gain. That's what I usually do since I want the lowest noise floor possible and I don't really listen to music very loud. Usually ranges from 68-80 db for me when I listen to music.


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## Slashn77

BrotherKathos said:


> I'm running low gain. That's what I usually do since I want the lowest noise floor possible and I don't really listen to music very loud. Usually ranges from 68-80 db for me when I listen to music.


I would try high gain, put your computers main volume to 80-88 and then turn your amp knob to where you want the volume and make fine adjustments using the main windows volume. 

I find sometimes amps sound with a bit more glare and congestion if I keep the windows 10 volume at 100


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## BrotherKathos

Slashn77 said:


> I would try high gain, put your computers main volume to 80-88 and then turn your amp knob to where you want the volume and make fine adjustments using the main windows volume.
> 
> I find sometimes amps sound with a bit more glare and congestion if I keep the windows 10 volume at 100


I'll try that. Thanks for the suggestion Slash. I at least like the magni 3 with the 598s with my iphone hehe. I just tried the LCD-2C with my other setup and it sounds amazing paired with the Topping D50 and JDS Labs EL Amp. The D50 is one killer little dac for $250. Blows the Yggy away as far a measurements go and lots of other high priced dacs as well. Even the 1k rme adi dac does not do as well against it.


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## sennsay (Sep 7, 2018)

Topmounter said:


> Are you guys running the Magni 3 on the high or low gain setting?  It just occurred to me this morning after my first cup of coffee that I had forgotten about this switch and have had it set to low since receiving my Magni 3 last week.  Set to 'HI', the progression on the volume knob now feels 'normal' to me.  Still nothing harsh or untoward w/ the HE4xx's after a few songs, but comfortable listening levels are well within what I would call the 'sweet spot' of the volume pot now (~10 to 2 o'clock) with plenty of opportunity for hearing damage remaining.
> 
> I just ran the High Freq Range Test at audiocheck.net, I starting hearing the tone at 16k, but it kicks in 100% at 14k (HE4xx).


 Yes, Topmounter, the HE400s have a peaky treble, although in my case it's still clean, just an exposed area that sets off some frequencies as a bit too much with some music. They are more even through the QP1R, although will still show that slight treble exposure with some music, even if it's incredibly clean. In fact, Random Access Memories sounded fantastic through that set up last night while I was doing some late evening housework  The quality of the bass was fantastically good, such pitch definition and detail! You really need the Focus A pads to get the best from these cans and that seems to be the general opinion from almost all those who use them. A worthwhile and fairly cheap upgrade.  

 ** I forgot to mention that I get no noise at high gain _*and*_ high volume! That's with either the R2R or Mimby DACs. It may be just the amps response with the 600 ohm Ref1s, but since that's what I use as my no 1 cans .....
 I think there are folks here that don't bother reading the previous posts, just too busy to post their immediate thoughts, I'm guessing. The Magni 3 has the same output impedance regardless of where the gain switch is set, so that in itself is a non issue. Schiit themselves recommend using high gain for most cans, only the more sensitive ones requiring LOW gain. I rarely use it with any of my headphones, the Sony MDR-1Rs excepted, but being a little highlighted in the mids and part of the treble themselves, there are better amps for them ... like the Sony home theatre amps! They too have responded to the use of Mogami cable.

 The number of guys here that buy brand new headphones and expect them to sound amazing right out of the box - especially with revealing amps - is simply not smart. I so often just shake my head ... maybe it's the enthusiasm of youth 

I think the Yggy guys will vehemently disagree with you about the Yggy specs telling them how it will sound! Still, it's an old way of looking at things that has been well shown to be only a part of the story. Go and READ the Yggy 2 thread and see what _they_ think about their Yggys, I can assure you they will just laugh and continue listening with their jaws slack in awe, amazed grins on their faces, or simply lost in sheer musical pleasure. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 7, 2018)

sennsay said:


> Yes, Topmounter, the HE400s have a peaky treble, although in my case it's still clean, just an exposed area that sets off some frequencies as a bit too much with some music. They are more even through the QP1R, although will still show that slight treble exposure with some music, even if it's incredibly clean. In fact, Random Access Memories sounded fantastic through that set up last night while I was doing some late evening housework  The quality of the bass was fantastically good, such pitch definition and detail! You really need the Focus A pads to get the best from these cans and that seems to be the general opinion from almost all those who use them. A worthwhile and fairly cheap upgrade.
> 
> ** I forgot to mention that I get no noise at high gain _*and*_ high volume! That's with either the R2R or Mimby DACs. It may be just the amps response with the 600 ohm Ref1s, but since that's what I use as my no 1 cans .....
> I think there are folks here that don't bother reading the previous posts, just too busy to post their immediate thoughts, I'm guessing. The Magni 3 has the same output impedance regardless of where the gain switch is set, so that in itself is a non issue. Schiit themselves recommend using high gain for most cans, only the more sensitive ones requiring LOW gain. I rarely use it with any of my headphones, the Sony MDR-1Rs excepted, but being a little highlighted in the mids and part of the treble themselves, there are better amps for them ... like the Sony home theatre amps! They too have responded to the use of Mogami cable.
> ...



I took slash’s advice and tried the Lcd-2c on high gain on the magni 3. It makes finding my optimal volume level much more difficult since the knob is not the smoothest and I have to adjust it very carefully or i’ll either get too much volume or the low volume channel imbalance. You might not be aware, but Audeze ‘burns in’ their phones at the factory so they are ready to go when the customer recieves them. I honestly dont put much faith in burn in. It might make some extremely small difference, but its not going to turn water into wine.

Schiit have their own philosophy as they are even against dsd, and dont seem to care about how thier stuff measures anyway. Why else would they use tubes so much? No tube setup is ever going to measure well against ss and colors the sound alot, but people still love that coloring. This is why people like the Yggy as well. Its not the equipment recording artists would use,  but its great for the causal audiophile looking for a change and is apparently very ‘natural and organic’. I’ve never heard one so i can’t make any statements on its SQ, but if I spent 2.4k on a dac I’d really want to like it too hehe.

Back to the magni though. On high gain once I’m able to get the volume right, I actually do notice a significant improvement in the amp. It sounds much more like my other headphone amps and has lost 90% of the harshness from before. I really have to thank slash for that. Such a simple fix. I wonder why the gain setting makes such a difference in the magni 3? my o2 and El amp both sound the same regardless of gain settings. the only thing that changes with them is the volume sensitivity, not the actual sound reproduction. I’ve got the Lcd-2c hooked to it and these things are smooth as silk. By far the best headphones i’ve ever heard. I cant wait to get the thx aaa amp for them, but in the meantime the magni 3 will do


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 7, 2018)

going to have to try with the sabre dacs again


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## NA Blur

I still enjoy the Magni 3 over the BUDA. It look me 5 years to find something I liked as much or better.


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## NA Blur

The volume is not linear so keep that in mind when using the volume level and gain settings.


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## BrotherKathos

NA Blur said:


> The volume is not linear so keep that in mind when using the volume level and gain settings.



What does that mean exactly?  I have to say that after switching the gain to high, the Magni 3 has really started to impress me more and more. Its still hooked to my iphone, but streaming tidal hifi from it is very pleasing. Listening to rock on it with the lcd-2c is very good. l’m now takeing back my previous impression of this little unit and chalking it up to bad settings on my part. Really liking this little piece of schiit amp now


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## NA Blur

It means that if you move the volume knob in increments it is not the same amount of volume increase at each step.

Here is the quote from Schiit's site:

Improved potentiometer curve. we tweaked the potentiometer to have a slower ramp from minimum volume, which improves tracking at low volumes.


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## BrotherKathos

NA Blur said:


> It means that if you move the volume knob in increments it is not the same amount of volume increase at each step.
> 
> Here is the quote from Schiit's site:
> 
> Improved potentiometer curve. we tweaked the potentiometer to have a slower ramp from minimum volume, which improves tracking at low volumes.



Ahh, I get it now. Thanks Bur! I'm listening to the magni 3 right now with the SMSL SU-8 and Audeze LCD-2C and am very pleased now. The high frequency grain it all but gone now. The magni 3 is still a hair more treble biased when comapred to my JDS Labs EL Amp, but it does do a good job of driving the LCD-2C. Its become a setup I'm actually content listening to for a reasonable duration. I'm still optimistic the THX AAA amp with outperform the magni 3 though. Mainly bc the specs are so much better in terms of rms power and distortion. And if we are truly after 'hi-fi' and not pleasing colored sound, then the specs are something everyone needs to put heavy stock into.


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## Slashn77

BrotherKathos said:


> Ahh, I get it now. Thanks Bur! I'm listening to the magni 3 right now with the SMSL SU-8 and Audeze LCD-2C and am very pleased now. The high frequency grain it all but gone now. The magni 3 is still a hair more treble biased when comapred to my JDS Labs EL Amp, but it does do a good job of driving the LCD-2C. Its become a setup I'm actually content listening to for a reasonable duration. I'm still optimistic the THX AAA amp with outperform the magni 3 though. Mainly bc the specs are so much better in terms of rms power and distortion. And if we are truly after 'hi-fi' and not pleasing colored sound, then the specs are something everyone needs to put heavy stock into.


What is this THX AAA amp everyone is talking about? Is it the one on massdrop?
Can someone please link it? I want to check it out
Thanks


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## sennsay (Sep 9, 2018)

Amazing how this thread about a small budget amplifier that sounds far above it's price and station, given the right connections, source quality and conditions, engenders such wildly swinging 'opinions' and impressions. If you think specs tell all, then you have a great deal of learning and experience to come!
If you haven't found out already that some of the gear with the most spectacular specs actually sound awful, hard, harsh, edgy, two dimensional or ok but just plain flat, then if your mind is actually open, you will find that specs will almost always only tell part of the picture. This is a really old debate that has been going on since the 60's, well written about in many of the fine Hi-fi magazine and articles elsewhere, just check some of the reviews in Hi-Fi News magazine for some of those very discrepancies. It was well understood through the 70s-90s that a good well made 25-40W valve amp could easily outperform so many of the 'powerhouse' Japanese 80-100W in a number of areas, lots of watts with little current driving capacity. The little 40W Naim Nait integrated amplifier was well known for outdriving many 60-100W amps of the era. It did not have the super specs of the Japanese gear, yet still sounds great today.
 I've heard (and owned, including the Naim Nait) many of those amplifiers, CD player, DACs etc over the last 40 years, owned a lot of them and I can easily tell you now that my current little Schiit stack that I've shared my experiences about - as below in my sig - outperforms many of them (other than my TRI valve amp system I had in the lounge) for sheer organic life and musicality, the sound of living human voices that _feel_ like flesh and blood (in other words, they have a rounded density beyond a flat plane) and the experience of being _in_ the music, part of the experience. Last night's listening sesh was no different. It told me about what was going on with the musicians taking part, either electronica or otherwise. It's a long way from just great specs, going well beyond that objective left-brained only surface and into the whole reason for creating the music in the first place.
 Is it the be-all and end-all, hell no! Just absolutely brilliant at what it does within it's limitations, it's just that those limitations almost always are completely over-ridden by me being so totally immersed in a musical space that the electronics allowing me to experience this have virtually disappeared. For me, that _is_ the end-game. Taking the budget to higher (much!) levels will and should only add to that experience. From what I hear by the Yggy guys and gals, that ought to be thrilling!
 All aspects have their place in the scheme of things and I'm certainly not 'dissing' the specs side of it as a whole, it just needs to be in balance. Still, whoever wants to swing deeply into one side of it or another, we are sure free to do so, I just want to provide some perspective, whether it's accepted or not


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## BrotherKathos

Slashn77 said:


> What is this THX AAA amp everyone is talking about? Is it the one on massdrop?
> Can someone please link it? I want to check it out
> Thanks



Here is the link.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-thx-aaa-789-linear-amplifier

Its similar to the new Benchmark head amp in specs, but costs ten times less. Its meant to be ultra objective with the lowest distortion levels of anything out there. Its for people who want to hear the true recording, and not some rolled off valve amp ‘organic’ sound.


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 9, 2018)

sennsay said:


> Amazing how this thread about a small budget amplifier that sounds far above it's price and station, given the right connections, source quality and conditions, engenders such wildly swinging 'opinions' and impressions. If you think specs tell all, then you have a great deal of learning and experience to come!
> If you haven't found out already that some of the gear with the most spectacular specs actually sound awful, hard, harsh, edgy, two dimensional or ok but just plain flat, then if your mind is actually open, you will find that specs will almost always only tell part of the picture. This is a really old debate that has been going on since the 60's, well written about in many of the fine Hi-fi magazine and articles elsewhere, just check some of the reviews in Hi-Fi News magazine for some of those very discrepancies. It was well understood through the 70s-90s that a good well made 25-40W valve amp could easily outperform so many of the 'powerhouse' Japanese 80-100W in a number of areas, lots of watts with little current driving capacity. The little 40W Naim Nait integrated amplifier was well known for outdriving many 60-100W amps of the era. It did not have the super specs of the Japanese gear, yet still sounds great today.
> I've heard (and owned, including the Naim Nait) many of those amplifiers, CD player, DACs etc over the last 40 years, owned a lot of them and I can easily tell you now that my current little Schiit stack that I've shared my experiences about - as below in my sig - outperforms many of them (other than my TRI valve amp system I had in the lounge) for sheer organic life and musicality, the sound of living human voices that _feel_ like flesh and blood (in other words, they have a rounded density beyond a flat plane) and the experience of being _in_ the music, part of the experience. Last night's listening sesh was no different. It told me about what was going on with the musicians taking part, either electronica or otherwise. It's a long way from just great specs, going well beyond that objective left-brained only surface and into the whole reason for creating the music in the first place.
> Is it the be-all and end-all, hell no! Just absolutely brilliant at what it does within it's limitations, it's just that those limitations almost always are completely over-ridden by me being so totally immersed in a musical space that the electronics allowing me to experience this have virtually disappeared. For me, that _is_ the end-game. Taking the budget to higher (much!) levels will and should only add to that experience. From what I hear by the Yggy guys and gals, that ought to be thrilling!
> All aspects have their place in the scheme of things and I'm certainly not 'dissing' the specs side of it as a whole, it just needs to be in balance. Still, whoever wants to swing deeply into one side of it or another, we are sure free to do so, I just want to provide some perspective, whether it's accepted or not



Like I’ve said before, its all about peoples preferences. Some people don’t like change and already have their bias on what things should sound like. Specs may be only a part of the equation, but they are a big part of it. Musically should be left to the recording and not the source, amp or headphones. People who want actual hifi, will prefer high spec equipment over the old valve amps, Thats because to be hifi in the first place means high fidelity, or ultra revealing. This can be a double edged sword since those systems will let you hear even the slightest imperfection in the music. The thx amp is designed to be a true amp, which means it only amps the sound coming in, and does not add anything to the signal path at all. You may like your valve amos or taylored sound products, but they are not true hifi, because hey dont meet the basic definition of the term if they cover up the sound in some buttered manner. If you are happy with it though then that is all that matters. I personally prefer to hear how the artist intended the music to sound, and short of jacking their brain, the closest we can get to that is to use the equipment they used when they record the music, which most likely does not include your old tech, at least in music made today. Even stuff that was mixed years ago will get changed by the artists using high spec equipment so they can make the recording sound better. To each his own though, but if you really have an open mind like you claim, you would not be so dismissive if equipment based on specs alone. What you like is not necessarily true for others.


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## BrotherKathos

After listening to the magi 3 with the high gain for  a day, I have to say the sound is much improved. It still has that slight V shape frequency response that I'm not very fond of(the main reason I got rid of my Beyerdynamic dt 770 pro 250 ohm). I tried listening to it with the sabre dacs again and it was much better than before. I can get a better idea of what schiit intended when they made this product. After switching all the headphones and dacs around a few more times and listening I've narrowed down my personal favorite pairings. My Audeze LCD-2C sounds best with the JDS Labs EL Amp and Topping D50 Dac. The Hifiman HE-400i sounds best with the Massdrop O2 amp with SMSL SU-8 Dac. Finally the Magni 3 sounds best with the Sennheiser HD558 and 598 Cs using the iphone as a dac. The magni 3 still has a bit too much glare for me and does become fatiguing after about an hour or so even though I do enjoy the listening experience until then. I can now say that overall I'm satisfied with the $115 spent on this little amp. Even though its not my favorite amp, i do like it quite a bit now and enjoy it when in use. I would recommend it to anyone who likes to hear added snap crackle and pop to their music. The Magni 3 gives it to you in spades.


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## NA Blur

I doubt the amp has a V-shaped frequency response. If anything that would be your headphones and now you are hearing the true nature of your headphones. If it sounds edgy that could be because it has more power. I find powerful amps sound edgy if not properly adjusted for volume and gain.


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## BrotherKathos

NA Blur said:


> I doubt the amp has a V-shaped frequency response. If anything that would be your headphones and now you are hearing the true nature of your headphones. If it sounds edgy that could be because it has more power. I find powerful amps sound edgy if not properly adjusted for volume and gain.


I'm far from the only person who finds th magni 3 to have a slight v shape frequency response. Even if one pair of my 5 different headphones have a slight V they all can't. Especially the Audeze LCD-2C which is known by reputation to be one of the darker planars on the market. The magni 3 has an unnatural boost to the highs. Its how it was engineered. If you are not hearing that, then its because your dac is much darker and the magni 3 is boosting it to make up for it. Its the reason the magni 3 sounds the best on my iphone. Its a much lower quality dac with more high frequency roll off that tames the magni. I've played all around with the gain and volume. There is not that much to tweak.


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## treecloud

Was curious about the Massdrop THX 789 amp and was comparing output power with the Magni 3 (using mfg provided specs on Massdrop.com and Schiit.com), and was surprised to see Magni 3 specs more power into single ended:

@16ohms they are tied at 3 watts
@32 ohms Magni 3 is 2 watts, THX 789 1.8 watts
@300 ohms Magni 3 is 430mW, THX 789 200mW
@600 ohms Magni 3 is 230mW, THX 789 100mW

According to these specs the Magni 3 power advantage increases as drive conditions become more difficult...a good thing. Of course each mfg may have used different standards to establish clipping levels, and only results using the same protocol by an unbiased tech would be definitive. Even so all the hoo hah about the THX 789 being so powerful seems overstated, particularly with the Magni 3 on the scene.

And the differences in distortion specs between the two units should be well below thresholds for audibility, leading me to think under well controlled ABX conditions, using single ended output on the 789, there will be no aural difference between the two units.


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## riffrafff

Dunno.  My Magni 3 sounded fine with a 4490-based amp, and even more finer with the Mimby.


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## BrotherKathos




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## BrotherKathos

BrotherKathos said:


> That makes sense then. AKM dacs are known for their 'velvet sound' which smooths out highs and is not the most objective of dacs. Multibit dacs are also not as revealing as delta sigma. That's why your magni 3 works well with them. Get a highly objective dac like any sabre 9038 based chip and you will meet the real magni 3.


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## BrotherKathos

treecloud said:


> Was curious about the Massdrop THX 789 amp and was comparing output power with the Magni 3 (using mfg provided specs on Massdrop.com and Schiit.com), and was surprised to see Magni 3 specs more power into single ended:
> 
> @16ohms they are tied at 3 watts
> @32 ohms Magni 3 is 2 watts, THX 789 1.8 watts
> ...



You are only looking at SE performance. The 789 is more powerful than the magni 3 in balanced, which is what the vast majority of the people buying this amp will most likely use. Its what I'll be using with my Audeze LCD-2C.


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## tamleo

I don't think my Mymby are less revealing than any other ds dacs (including the ds Gungnir).But I would love my Mymby's bass to be a little less bloated.
I have been listening to my "unicorn" LCD2 with my M3 recent days, imo the M3 lacked of some high treble and sometimes i felt the pairing too dark. So i came back using My LCD2 with my M2u and liked it better. The m3 is for my balanced amateur iem now.


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## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> You are only looking at SE performance. The 789 is more powerful than the magni 3 in balanced, which is what the vast majority of the people buying this amp will most likely use. Its what I'll be using with my Audeze LCD-2C.



Yes of course I'm looking at single ended performance, to compare one single block of amplification to another. Otherwise it's not an "apples to apples" comparison. If Schiit made a balanced version of the Magni 3, again, going by mfg specs which may have used different test protocols, it seems that it would be more powerful than the 789.

In most cases, when well designed amps are kept within respective power envelope, objective listening tests do not show aural benefit to balanced amplification. I'd be curious to know what percentage of Head-Fiers used balanced cans.


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## Tuneslover

treecloud said:


> Yes of course I'm looking at single ended performance, to compare one single block of amplification to another. Otherwise it's not an "apples to apples" comparison. If Schiit made a balanced version of the Magni 3, again, going by mfg specs which may have used different test protocols, it seems that it would be more powerful than the 789.
> 
> In most cases, when well designed amps are kept within respective power envelope, objective listening tests do not show aural benefit to balanced amplification. I'd be curious to know what percentage of Head-Fiers used balanced cans.



I do, HE500 and HD650 with Mimby &  Jotunheim


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## riffrafff

tamleo said:


> The m3 is for my balanced amateur iem now.



I used to be a balanced amateur;  now I'm a balanced professional.


----------



## treecloud

Tuneslover said:


> I do, HE500 and HD650 with Mimby &  Jotunheim



The HeadFi community would probably have the highest % of balanced can users on the planet. Perhaps there's a rough correspondence between that ratio to the ratio of balanced to single ended only headphone amps. Guesses? 20%?


----------



## NA Blur

I still don't think it's biased towards sounding brighter. Perhaps better and more linear extension in the treble, but I challenge you to find me the measurements that hold up the treble boost claim.

Where do you see that it was "engineered that way?"


----------



## BrotherKathos

NA Blur said:


> I still don't think it's biased towards sounding brighter. Perhaps better and more linear extension in the treble, but I challenge you to find me the measurements that hold up the treble boost claim.
> 
> Where do you see that it was "engineered that way?"



https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...g-a30-and-schiit-magni-3-headphone-amps.4024/

Here is some measurements. The reviewer also found the magni 3 to be bright. He attributed it to the magni 3's drastic rise in distortion compared to the topping a30 a you raise the volume, possibly adding high frequency artifacts that make the magni 3 brighter. I don't know about all that, but the magni 3 is absolutely brighter on every piece of audio equipment I have period. Maybe your equipment works great with the magni 3, but I buy mostly objective oriented dacs and amps so the magni 3 is just not my cup of Joe. Its good enough for me with my iphone at least, so I'll use it until I get the THX AAA and then either move it to another house or dump it on the used market.


----------



## BrotherKathos

NA Blur said:


> I still don't think it's biased towards sounding brighter. Perhaps better and more linear extension in the treble, but I challenge you to find me the measurements that hold up the treble boost claim.
> 
> Where do you see that it was "engineered that way?"



I also wanted to note that the dac and headphones he used in the magni 3 review are basically identical to my setup. He was using a topping DX7 and the Hifiman He-400i. I'm also using the 400i and a Topping D50 which uses the same dac chips and is basically the same unit without a head amp or balanced outs. The D50 actually measures better than the Dx7. I wish I would have seen this review before I bought the magni 3. It would have saved me the $115, but oh well. Like i said before, its fine for a bedside setup with the iphone ntil the O2 amp replaces it when the THX AAA amp gets here in February.


----------



## NA Blur

Now I can see a DAC sounding brighter. There is all sorts of filtering going on especially if the DAC is DSD capable for higher bit depths. 

I read those measurements too and I don't see a single FR measurement anywhere. Did you read them?


----------



## BrotherKathos

NA Blur said:


> Now I can see a DAC sounding brighter. There is all sorts of filtering going on especially if the DAC is DSD capable for higher bit depths.
> 
> I read those measurements too and I don't see a single FR measurement anywhere. Did you read them?



This was a comparison. The magni 3 was brighter than the topping a30 and had dirtier power. Whether or not that makes it brighter than other amps, or whether its as you say and its the dac, then who knows. If my dacs are bright, then my O2 amp and JDS Labs EL Amp and Audioengine D1 are very dark, and my iphone is so dark as to have no high frequency at all. I'm just stating my experience, that also matches with others using similar equipment that is not present on known neutral gear. I've even heard people say the O2 amp is bright, and if that is the case then the magni 3 is shrill by comparison. My O2 amp and EL amp are way more neutral than my magni 3, just the facts. I don't need a measurement to tell me what I'm hearing. Maybe I just got a schiit unit>>>


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## joeexp

BrotherKathos said:


> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...g-a30-and-schiit-magni-3-headphone-amps.4024/
> 
> Here is some measurements. The reviewer also found the magni 3 to be bright. He attributed it to the magni 3's drastic rise in distortion compared to the topping a30 a you raise the volume, possibly adding high frequency artifacts that make the magni 3 brighter. I don't know about all that, but the magni 3 is absolutely brighter on every piece of audio equipment I have period. Maybe your equipment works great with the magni 3, but I buy mostly objective oriented dacs and amps so the magni 3 is just not my cup of Joe. Its good enough for me with my iphone at least, so I'll use it until I get the THX AAA and then either move it to another house or dump it on the used market.



There is this guy called "amirm" who has got a personal and well documented problem with Schiit products.
I wouldn't take his "reviews" seriously.


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## treecloud (Sep 12, 2018)

joeexp said:


> There is this guy called "amirm" who has got a personal and well documented problem with Schiit products.
> I wouldn't take his "reviews" seriously.



He brings some balance to the audio world by introducing some objectivity, but he is not really all that objective either really. He appears not to know much about psycho-acoustic research on threshold for audibility of the common distortions we measure of electronic audio gear. Generally speaking, thresholds are much higher than the levels he is typically comparing, but he does not go to great lengths to point out these differences are thought to be inaudible. Tests for distortion are not completely meaningless, it's interesting to know where the theoretical limit is currently. But in terms of sound quality they may be completely meaningless.

In addition, if he wanted to be truly objective he would mount complex time consuming aural tests with a variety of listeners including professional audiophiles, using ABX protocols. Pretty sure he's not interested in adding that layer of complexity to what he's already doing. Meanwhile, to his credit, he does give lip service to the problem from time to time saying something to the effect "these distortion differences are probably inaudible".

And then there's the big elephant in the room we can't measure and therefor no one is talking about, and that are the distortions that remain in the best systems that tell us we are listening to reproductions of music, not live music. We are getting closer, true, but still miles from true convergence. What are those unmeasured distortions? Mostly compression of "reality" that take various forms. "Waveform launch" is a biggie. Scale distortions. "Shape" (of aural phenomena) distortions. Dynamic and frequency range compressions. Dimensionality distortions.

These distortions in aggregate may be as high as (let's say) 70%. Not 0.00001%. Some "objectivists" give objectivity a bad name


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## BrotherKathos

treecloud said:


> He brings some balance to the audio world by introducing some objectivity, but he is not really all that objective either really. He appears not to know much about psycho-acoustic research on threshold for audibility of the common distortions we measure of electronic audio gear. Generally speaking, thresholds are much higher than the levels he is typically comparing, but he does not go to great lengths to point out these differences are thought to be inaudible. Tests for distortion are not completely meaningless, it's interesting to know where the theoretical limit is currently. But in terms of sound quality they may be completely meaningless.
> 
> In addition, if he wanted to be truly objective he would mount complex time consuming aural tests with a variety of listeners including professional audiophiles, using ABX protocols. Pretty sure he's not interested in adding that layer of complexity to what he's already doing. Meanwhile, to his credit, he does give lip service to the problem from time to time saying something to the effect "these distortion differences are probably inaudible".
> 
> ...



I agree with you in being skeptical of audible distortion based on measurements. I stumbled into that magni 3 and A30 comparison in an effort to explain why my magni 3 seemed so much brighter that my other equipment as I turned the volume up. Like I've said before earlier in the thread it actually sounds pretty good at very low volumes on efficient headphones, but once you start to raise the volume the little unit changes from a son of a god into the little village shrew. I thought it was interesting that the Amirm guy also had the exact same results I did, which looks more like that is just how the amp is designed to operate. His explanations on why that is the case and the relation to the rise in THD as volume increases I'm not so sure about, but both his and my units are both operating similarly. 

That is what I put more stock in. We both hear the same thing coming out of the same model(magni 3) when using similar equipment. The magni 3 also gets bright as you raise the volume on all my other dac and headphone combos as well, so its not just one isolated setup producing those results either. So either both me and Amirm got really bad quality units, or their seems to be some design principle whether intentional or not my schiit that makes the magni 3 sound brighter than other amps in or around its price point. Lots of people may like this, and seem to. Personally I've always hated systems overemphasize treble in any way for headphones. Its not as big of a concern for floor standing speakers to me since they are not firing the shrill treble directly into your ear.


----------



## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> ...in an effort to explain why my magni 3 seemed so much brighter that my other equipment as I turned the volume up. Like I've said before earlier in the thread it actually sounds pretty good at very low volumes on efficient headphones, but once you start to raise the volume the little unit changes from a son of a god into the little village shrew.
> 
> Personally I've always hated systems overemphasize treble in any way for headphones. Its not as big of a concern for floor standing speakers to me since they are not firing the shrill treble directly into your ear.



Agree with you also about shrill highs into headphones, I also find it a serious disruption of the "suspension of disbelief" necessary for emotional immersion in music. However I had a different impression of sonics than you experienced. I replaced a massdrop ODAC and O2 integrated in stages, first with a Topping D50 dac into the O2, then getting a Magni 3 to use with the D50. I can't say I heard differences I'm sure would survive rigourous ABX comparisons, but I can say what I thought I heard, and those differences were relatively subtle.

Going from the ODAC to the D50 (still with the O2) I thought I heard a slight increase in resolution and smoothness. Adding the Magni 3 to the D50 I thought I heard a more relaxed presentation, with increased headroom, and again increased smoothness, and if anything a bit less brightness.

We all have varying subjective impressions of reproduced sound. The odd things is they frequently "disappear" in level matched ABX comparisons.


----------



## BrotherKathos

treecloud said:


> Agree with you also about shrill highs into headphones, I also find it a serious disruption of the "suspension of disbelief" necessary for emotional immersion in music. However I had a different impression of sonics than you experienced. I replaced a massdrop ODAC and O2 integrated in stages, first with a Topping D50 dac into the O2, then getting a Magni 3 to use with the D50. I can't say I heard differences I'm sure would survive rigourous ABX comparisons, but I can say what I thought I heard, and those differences were relatively subtle.
> 
> Going from the ODAC to the D50 (still with the O2) I thought I heard a slight increase in resolution and smoothness. Adding the Magni 3 to the D50 I thought I heard a more relaxed presentation, with increased headroom, and again increased smoothness, and if anything a bit less brightness.
> 
> We all have varying subjective impressions of reproduced sound. The odd things is they frequently "disappear" in level matched ABX comparisons.



It could very well be a variance in QC that makes some units smoother and others brighter as well. I've had others tell me the same thing about the O2 amp, where 2 units from different manufacturers like jds labs and mayflower had different sound profiles. One was smooth and the other thin and bright. The bright one was the mayflower from this person and the smooth the jds labs. Then I had another person tell me the O2 amp they heard from jds labs was bright. Mine is the massdrop one and its incredibly smooth, but I wonder if another one would be? The magni 3 might also have this same kind of swing as well, but it might  be something that is subtle to the point that the people of schiit either don't really hear, or feel its not worth looking into and treat it as acceptable.


----------



## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> It could very well be a variance in QC that makes some units smoother and others brighter as well. I've had others tell me the same thing about the O2 amp, where 2 units from different manufacturers like jds labs and mayflower had different sound profiles. One was smooth and the other thin and bright. The bright one was the mayflower from this person and the smooth the jds labs. Then I had another person tell me the O2 amp they heard from jds labs was bright. Mine is the massdrop one and its incredibly smooth, but I wonder if another one would be? The magni 3 might also have this same kind of swing as well, but it might  be something that is subtle to the point that the people of schiit either don't really hear, or feel its not worth looking into and treat it as acceptable.



Well yes, any of that is possible, I don't think of it as all that likely however. One issue that may be more relevant here is Amirm seems to have developed a negative emotional attachment to Schiit products in particular, which is of course the condition (emotional attachment) that is most correlated to placebo effect in listening to electro-mechanical music reproduction.

And Amirm's condition seems to be contagious?


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 12, 2018)

treecloud said:


> And Amirm's condition seems to be contagious?



If you are referring to me in this, it might make sense if I had not already gotten the magni 3 and found it lacking in quality before even reading Amirm's thread. If I'd read it beforehand like I posted earlier, I might not have bought the magi 3 in the first place or at least been quicker to return it. There is no placebo in this case. I'm extremely objective in my opinions and am never swayed by any of the hype trains that frequently occur in audio communities. I'll happily listen to a $50 component over a $5000 one if it sounds better to me. Sadly the magni 3 does not fit into this category. Is it worth $115 for the purpose of a head amp and preamp? Sure it its, but it hardly punches above its price point IMO. And my opinion is what matters most


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## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> If you are referring to me in this, it might make sense if I had not already gotten the magni 3 and found it lacking in quality before even reading Amirm's thread. If I'd read it beforehand like I posted earlier, I might not have bought the magi 3 in the first place or at least been quicker to return it. There is no placebo in this case. I'm extremely objective in my opinions and am never swayed by any of the hype trains that frequently occur in audio communities. I'll happily listen to a $50 component over a $5000 one if it sounds better to me. Sadly the magni 3 does not fit into this category. Is it worth $115 for the purpose of a head amp and preamp? Sure it its, but it hardly punches above its price point IMO. And my opinion is what matters most



All I'm saying is if the shoe fits...

But clearly you do not think it does. I would like to suggest you consider a few of the things you said here however:
"I'm extremely objective in my opinions"
Opinions are, by definition, subjective.
"am never swayed by any of the hype trains that frequently occur"
Never is a long time. What human, emotional creatures that we are, is never swayed by collective emotions?
"And my opinion is what matters most"
To you of course, just as it is with all of us. The wise person has learned however he doesn't know it all, and he may be wrong.

I would add that IMHO collective opinion is frequently good for something ("the wisdom of the crowd" phenomena is real), and in the case of the Magni 3 you are going against an exceedingly positive collective opinion.

Absolutes are relative...know what I mean?


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## BrotherKathos

treecloud said:


> All I'm saying is if the shoe fits...
> 
> But clearly you do not think it does. I would like to suggest you consider a few of the things you said here however:
> "I'm extremely objective in my opinions"
> ...



You can use semantics all you want. Its very possible to be objective in an opinion. This opinion directly related to an objective perception of the product I've personally experienced. I can also use never in relation to the past meaning I've not been swayed so far at least in the value to which i give other peoples opinions, which is quite low actually when my own taste is concerned. As far as my opinion goes and learning to listen to the 'wise men', I'll put more stock in my own. The whole world can tell me that something sounds great, but if it sounds like crap to me, well then it sounds like crap. You seem to be very dug into your own biases and don't seem to understand the distinction. Lots of people think Britney spears and Taylor swift are talented musicians, but to me their music is trash.


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 12, 2018)

BrotherKathos said:


> You can use semantics all you want. Its very possible to be objective in an opinion. This opinion directly related to an objective perception of the product I've personally experienced. I can also use never in relation to the past meaning I've not been swayed so far at least in the value to which i give other peoples opinions, which is quite low actually when my own taste is concerned. As far as my opinion goes and learning to listen to the 'wise men', I'll put more stock in my own. The whole world can tell me that something sounds great, but if it sounds like crap to me, well then it sounds like crap. You seem to be very dug into your own biases and don't seem to understand the distinction. Lots of people think Britney spears and Taylor swift are talented musicians, but to me their music is trash. Billions of _*people have eaten*_ Mcdonald's but does that make the food any better?


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## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> You can use semantics all you want. Its very possible to be objective in an opinion....You seem to be very dug into your own biases and don't seem to understand the distinction.



There is also "informed opinion", thought to be possessed by professionals and experts. You appear to believe you are in possession of informed opinion, and I'm completely comfortable with that. Enjoy your tunes my brother.


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## BrotherKathos

treecloud said:


> There is also "informed opinion", thought to be possessed by professionals and experts. You appear to believe you are in possession of informed opinion, and I'm completely comfortable with that. Enjoy your tunes my brother.



Thanks Treecloud. Yeah the so called 'informed opinion' can only hope to point people in the right direction. Sadly it has no effect on personal experience when its own significance is devalued by objectivity.


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## BrotherKathos

Does anyone else get the scratchy static from the magni 3 when you change the the volume?


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## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> Does anyone else get the scratchy static from the magni 3 when you change the the volume?


I was getting that with the Massdrop ODAC O2 combo, but interestingly it went away when I dropped the D50 in circuit. And Magni 3 is also quiet with D50. There were a lot of posts about "dusty pots" previously, but what I was hearing did not sound like dusty pot, was more subtle than that, more like DC offset maybe, some potential in the line that shouldn't be there, power supply issue perhaps.


----------



## riffrafff

BrotherKathos said:


> Does anyone else get the scratchy static from the magni 3 when you change the the volume?



I did.  Sent it back, they replaced the pot.  All good now.


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 12, 2018)

riffrafff said:


> I did.  Sent it back, they replaced the pot.  All good now.



Ok I'm getting more and more convinced I just got a bad unit. The sound is different than all these other people claim, and its apparently got a bad pot as well.


----------



## DavidA

BrotherKathos said:


> Ok I'm getting more and more convinced I just got a bad unit. The sound is different than all these other people claim, and its apparently got a bad pot as well.


Hope that a new unit works out and it was just the volume pot that was the issue since my friend who has a Magni3 had issues with the volume pot (channel imbalance) and got a new one but it did not get harsh or brighter when played at higher levels.


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## BubbaJay

My new LCD-2C sounds great with my Magni 3 / Mimby setup, warm and smooth with plenty of detail.

One thing I'd like to know is if anyone leaves you amp on for like days at a time.  I'll leave my Magni and Mimby on sometimes for 3 days in a row.  I'm wondering if that's really bad for them but I've never had any problems and I feel like the Mimby in particular sounds much better when it's fully warmed up.


----------



## BrotherKathos

BubbaJay said:


> My new LCD-2C sounds great with my Magni 3 / Mimby setup, warm and smooth with plenty of detail.
> 
> One thing I'd like to know is if anyone leaves you amp on for like days at a time.  I'll leave my Magni and Mimby on sometimes for 3 days in a row.  I'm wondering if that's really bad for them but I've never had any problems and I feel like the Mimby in particular sounds much better when it's fully warmed up.


As far as I know its generally best to leave solid state equipment on all the time. Supposedly is has something to do with power stabilization or other technical things I don't fully understand.


----------



## BrotherKathos

DavidA said:


> Hope that a new unit works out and it was just the volume pot that was the issue since my friend who has a Magni3 had issues with the volume pot (channel imbalance) and got a new one but it did not get harsh or brighter when played at higher levels.





Hopefully sending it in will fix all the issues. The scratchy volume is very easy to spot, but the channel imbalance and brightness most likely will not be observed as I suspect that's just how they all sound and I'm just really picky. But who knows, maybe they will all get fixed or I'll get a happy dose of placebo and stop hearing the bright treble hehe.


----------



## tafens

BubbaJay said:


> One thing I'd like to know is if anyone leaves you amp on for like days at a time.  I'll leave my Magni and Mimby on sometimes for 3 days in a row.  I'm wondering if that's really bad for them but I've never had any problems and I feel like the Mimby in particular sounds much better when it's fully warmed up.



I leave mine on days at a time, often Monday through Friday (I have it on my desk at work). I have done so for almost a year, and have had no problems with any of them.


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## riffrafff

BubbaJay said:


> My new LCD-2C sounds great with my Magni 3 / Mimby setup, warm and smooth with plenty of detail.
> 
> One thing I'd like to know is if anyone leaves you amp on for like days at a time.  I'll leave my Magni and Mimby on sometimes for 3 days in a row.  I'm wondering if that's really bad for them but I've never had any problems and I feel like the Mimby in particular sounds much better when it's fully warmed up.



I leave my Eitr, Mimby, and Loki on all the time.  I switch off my Magni 3 and Vali 2 at bedtime, and back on after work.


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## treecloud (Sep 13, 2018)

treecloud said:


> Tests for distortion are not completely meaningless, it's interesting to know where the theoretical limit is currently. But in terms of sound quality they may be completely meaningless.
> 
> There's the big elephant in the room we can't measure and therefore no one is talking about, and that are the distortions that remain in the best systems that tell us we are listening to reproductions of music, not live music. We are getting closer, true, but still miles from true convergence. What are those unmeasured distortions? Mostly compression of "reality" that take various forms. "Waveform launch" is a biggie. Scale distortions. "Shape" (of aural phenomena) distortions. Dynamic and frequency range compressions. Dimensionality distortions. These distortions in aggregate may be as high as (let's say) 70%. Not 0.00001%.



I want to take a stab at why some measurable distortions can sound more "real" to music lovers. It has to do with that big elephant in the room, that gap between live performance and a reproduction of it. Anyone who has had the experience of recording, being in the tracking room listening to musicians play unamplified in real space, and then going to the control room and hearing the live mic feed, knows the difference is huge. Not that the playback can't be good! It definitely can, especially with SOTA playback chain. But that's not the point.

The point is you listen to the playback and think Dang!... that's not even close. Someone asks you, "if you could quantify the difference, what would it be? 25% different? 50%?" You say, oh I dunno, maybe 50%. Yeah, at least half the information is simply missing in playback.

You are not hearing 0.0001% distortion friends, you are hearing 50% distortion. Can't really be measured, no one talks about it, but if you want to understand the limits of audio technology it's a good place to start. For one thing, on a practical level it helps understand "the obsession". You are not going to "get there" no matter how much you spend, or read, or tweak. It's just not going to happen. So relax, obsess less, enjoy more.

Meanwhile distortions that can be measured, but also happen to "sound good" (euphonic distortions), are compensating in some way for that collapse of information contained in the original event. They are additive, and not "accurate" in terms of measured distortions, like added warmth. They are subtractive, like the highs are fatiguing, turn that down! They are subtractive like the compression used on all pop productions so that music will make sense on playback that is "less than" (the vast majority). "Sonic Hologram" phase manipulation that exaggerates soundstage phenomena. Etc, potentially ad infinitum.

In short, these euphonic distortions compensate in some way for let's call it "the collapse of information phenomena" present in all music playback systems. They can make playback sound "more real", of course it's subjective, but in many cases you will get something close to universal agreement: "yeah, that one sounds more real".

Collapse of information is why many don't like perfect measured performance...it doesn't sound real.

OK that's it for me, hope some find this helpful.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Well the magni 3 is in for repairs. I also went ahead and placed an order for the Modi multibit since it seems to be the best in class pairing for the magni 3. Hopefully when I get it all hooked together I'll be happy. I'm always open for my mind to be changed, but so far have been unimpressed with the magni 3. Since I sent it in for repairs and the volume pot was absolutely defective though, its not really fair for me to pass any kind of judgement just yet. I'll give the combo a fair listen when it all arrives. I'm really not that picky about my sound except for disliking intrusive treble peaks. If i really like the modi multi, then maybe I'll spring for the top of the range multibit dac schiit makes in the future.


----------



## ScOgLiO

BrotherKathos said:


> Well the magni 3 is in for repairs. I also went ahead and placed an order for the Modi multibit since it seems to be the best in class pairing for the magni 3. Hopefully when I get it all hooked together I'll be happy. I'm always open for my mind to be changed, but so far have been unimpressed with the magni 3. Since I sent it in for repairs and the volume pot was absolutely defective though, its not really fair for me to pass any kind of judgement just yet. I'll give the combo a fair listen when it all arrives. I'm really not that picky about my sound except for disliking intrusive treble peaks. If i really like the modi multi, then maybe I'll spring for the top of the range multibit dac schiit makes in the future.



I personally really like the combo, paired with Senheiser HD600. It gives me good detail and instrument spacing, I even found out I enjoy listening to my speakers more, when hooked up to the Schiit mini-combo


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## BrotherKathos (Sep 19, 2018)

ScOgLiO said:


> I personally really like the combo, paired with Senheiser HD600. It gives me good detail and instrument spacing, I even found out I enjoy listening to my speakers more, when hooked up to the Schiit mini-combo



Hopefully i do as well. I did not like how the magni 3 sounded on any of my other dacs, which include music hall 15.2 with burr brown, audioengine d1 with akm, and 2 sabre dacs (topping d50 and smsl su-8). Hopefully the problem was mechanical and not how the unit usually sounds, or at least pairs well to my ears with the Mimby. If it still has the simblant treble problem them I’ll have to do something else. The only source that sounded good with the magni 3 was surprisingly my iphone 6.


----------



## BubbaJay

I know planars like my LCD-2C can be a bit power hungry but not for the Magni 3.  I don't even get to a quarter volume before it gets too loud in most cases and with my Nighthawk I have to use low gain.  I was thinking about getting a hybrid like the Vali 2 or even the Lyr 3 but I feel like my Magni 3 / Mimby setup is just fine and the possible increase in SQ wouldn't be worth it.


----------



## Wes S

BubbaJay said:


> I know planars like my LCD-2C can be a bit power hungry but not for the Magni 3.  I don't even get to a quarter volume before it gets too loud in most cases and with my Nighthawk I have to use low gain.  I was thinking about getting a hybrid like the Vali 2 or even the Lyr 3 but I feel like my Magni 3 / Mimby setup is just fine and the possible increase in SQ wouldn't be worth it.


There is more than just volume level, to performance.  You will get an increase in total performance (seperation, tone, imaging, etc. . .), when you jump up to the Lyr 3, but if it is worth it, is up to you.  Honestly if you are happy, don't look over the fence.  There is a rabbit hole, with no end. . .


----------



## riffrafff

BubbaJay said:


> I know planars like my LCD-2C can be a bit power hungry but not for the Magni 3.  I don't even get to a quarter volume before it gets too loud in most cases and with my Nighthawk I have to use low gain.  I was thinking about getting a hybrid like the Vali 2 or even the Lyr 3 but I feel like my Magni 3 / Mimby setup is just fine and the possible increase in SQ wouldn't be worth it.



I use my Magni 3 mostly as a pre-amp for my desktop near-field speakers, since getting the Vali 2 (B-stock, $100*).  The Vali 2 seems to drive my 4XX and 6XX headphones fine, even with its lower power rating (compared to the Magi 3).


*(Of course, I've prolly spent more than the cost of the Vali 2 on various tubes and adapters, but that's because I like playin' with that kinda schiit.)


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## PointyFox (Sep 19, 2018)

BrotherKathos said:


> As far as I know its generally best to leave solid state equipment on all the time. Supposedly is has something to do with power stabilization or other technical things I don't fully understand.


I recall someone measuring amps found it took something like 1-4 seconds to stabilize. The things that stabilize are the capacitors. The only things that really need to be left on for a bit to stabilize are tube amps because the tubes need to heat up.


----------



## BrotherKathos

riffrafff said:


> I use my Magni 3 mostly as a pre-amp for my desktop near-field speakers, since getting the Vali 2 (B-stock, $100*).  The Vali 2 seems to drive my 4XX and 6XX headphones fine, even with its lower power rating (compared to the Magi 3).
> 
> 
> *(Of course, I've prolly spent more than the cost of the Vali 2 on various tubes and adapters, but that's because I like playin' with that kinda schiit.)



Based purely on specs alone the Vali 2 should be a poor match for the 4xx due to its high output impedance in high gain right? I think the 4xx is rated for 35 ohms or so and at 5.8 output ohm the vali 2 should not mesh well. Maybe there are other factors that play into it then besides the typical ones?


----------



## BrotherKathos

PointyFox said:


> I recall someone measuring amps found it took something like 1-4 seconds to stabilize. The things that stabilize are the capacitors. The only things that really need to be left on for a bit to stabilize are tube amps because the tubes need to heat up.



I never knew that. I always thought burn in was the only thing about caps due to the nature of their construction and the buffer layers. I never knew  that had to stabilize. I always thought it was the power supply that needed that.


----------



## PointyFox

BrotherKathos said:


> Based purely on specs alone the Vali 2 should be a poor match for the 4xx due to its high output impedance in high gain right? I think the 4xx is rated for 35 ohms or so and at 5.8 output ohm the vali 2 should not mesh well. Maybe there are other factors that play into it then besides the typical ones?



I heard the impedance of your headphones need to be approximately 4-5x the output impedance of the amp for it not to affect the frequency response noticeably, so that _should_ work.


----------



## BrotherKathos

PointyFox said:


> I heard the impedance of your headphones need to be approximately 4-5x the output impedance of the amp for it not to affect the frequency response noticeably, so that _should_ work.



I heard it was at least 8 times


----------



## PointyFox

BrotherKathos said:


> I never knew that. I always thought burn in was the only thing about caps due to the nature of their construction and the buffer layers. I never knew  that had to stabilize. I always thought it was the power supply that needed that.



Yeah, capacitors need some time to charge. The below illustration is an example of what this might look like if a capacitor was completely discharged.


----------



## BrotherKathos

PointyFox said:


> Yeah, capacitors need some time to charge. The below illustration is an example of what this might look like if a capacitor was completely discharged.



Thanks for that!

Here is something I read before that made me think the impedance of the vali 2 and 4xx does not work. In this article its said that you need a 10/1 ratio instead of 8 even. But this is for a power amp and preamp, so doea it change when applied to head amps. THey are doing the same thing just on a smaller scale so the ratio should be the same right?

https://www.tortugaaudio.com/adjustable-impedance-preamps/


----------



## riffrafff

BrotherKathos said:


> I heard it was at least 8 times



I heard eight, too.  So the Vali 2 and 4XX work out to a ratio of six.  Maybe that's close enough for my old ears?




PointyFox said:


> Yeah, capacitors need some time to charge. The below illustration is an example of what this might look like if a capacitor was completely discharged.



I was just changing caps and resistors today at work to build an R/C time-constant test rig that would give the the proper charge curve for an avionics battery charger/maintainer that we were calibrating.


----------



## BrotherKathos

riffrafff said:


> I heard eight, too.  So the Vali 2 and 4XX work out to a ratio of six.  Maybe that's close enough for my old ears?



I can't remember what the exact symptoms of impedance mismatch like that are, but I think it had to do with the extreme ends of the bass and/or treble? As with everything in audio though, if it sounds good to you then its the best no matter who says otherwise. If it sounds like crap to you, then it does not matter if everyone else tells you its the heavenly sound at the end of the world because it in reality just sounds like crap hehe.


----------



## BubbaJay

Wes S said:


> There is more than just volume level, to performance.  You will get an increase in total performance (seperation, tone, imaging, etc. . .), when you jump up to the Lyr 3, but if it is worth it, is up to you.  Honestly if you are happy, don't look over the fence.  There is a rabbit hole, with no end. . .



I know all about the gains you get with better equipment but for an increase that I think would be worth it I'd have to spend more than I'd want to.  While I don't doubt the Lyr 3 would give me better performance I just don't think it would be enough of a jump over my Magni 3 to justify spending $500.


----------



## BrotherKathos

BubbaJay said:


> I know all about the gains you get with better equipment but for an increase that I think would be worth it I'd have to spend more than I'd want to.  While I don't doubt the Lyr 3 would give me better performance I just don't think it would be enough of a jump over my Magni 3 to justify spending $500.



You can just do the 15 day trial on it and immediately return it if it does not seem worth it.


----------



## Slashn77

BrotherKathos said:


> You can just do the 15 day trial on it and immediately return it if it does not seem worth it.


That is a good idea but 5% restocking fee on the L3 plus another $20ish to ship it back on your own dime so looking at $50 just to try it out


----------



## BrotherKathos

Slashn77 said:


> That is a good idea but 5% restocking fee on the L3 plus another $20ish to ship it back on your own dime so looking at $50 just to try it out



That makes it more of a rental than a free trial. On second thought I’m not sure if i’d be willing to do it either.


----------



## beyermann (Sep 19, 2018)

Im buying one of these to use as a headphone amp and will plug them on a NI AK1 usb interface in the 2 free outputs so I can use monitors and headphone at the same time. I will be using a 600 ohm DT770.The headphone jack of the AK1 is broken but it did a decent job driving it (I dont have any other references tho)

Will it work? im just worried about how i've heard the magni 3 is too "smooth" and the high end is kind of washed out, but at the same time i've heard for 99 bucks you cant beat it. Im not willing to spend more because im saving for a proper USB RME interface in the future.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Sep 19, 2018)

beyermann said:


> Im buying one of these to use as a headphone amp and will plug them on a NI AK1 usb interface in the 2 free outputs so I can use monitors and headphone at the same time. I will be using a 600 ohm DT770.The headphone jack of the AK1 is broken but it did a decent job driving it (I dont have any other references tho)
> 
> Will it work? im just worried about how i've heard the magni 3 is too "smooth" and the high end is kind of washed out, but at the same time i've heard for 99 bucks you cant beat it. Im not willing to spend more because im saving for a proper USB RME interface in the future.



when you plug in your headphones on the magni 3, your speakers will be muted. I dont think the magni 3 will be too smooth at all, especially with DT770 headphones. It will be ‘ultra dynamic’


----------



## PointyFox (Sep 20, 2018)

Don't trust anyone who says it's something other than flat. Almost all amps have near perfectly flat frequency responses.

This is for the Magni 3:
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, -0.1db, 2Hz-900KHz, -3dB

That means within the audible range, there is almost no difference in how it outputs different frequencies. The amp doesn't care.

If you are actually hearing a difference, it should be due to your headphones or your body.


----------



## BrotherKathos

PointyFox said:


> Don't trust anyone who says it's something other than flat. Amps tend to have nearly perfectly flat frequency response from 20-18000+ Hz.
> This is the Magni 1:



If that were true, they would all sound the same. They don’t. Otherwise why bother shopping around in the first place?  I can guarantee my magni 3 sounds far different than my Jds labs EL amp and O2 amp and audioengine d1 and both of my receivers from marantz hp outs. Dont listen to anyone who tells you all amps sound the same due to frequency response.


----------



## PointyFox

BrotherKathos said:


> If that were true, they would all sound the same. They don’t. Otherwise why bother shopping around in the first place?  I can guarantee my magni 3 sounds far different than my Jds labs EL amp and O2 amp and audioengine d1 and both of my receivers from marantz hp outs. Dont listen to anyone who tells you all amps sound the same due to frequency response.



There must be a problem with your amps or you must be using very low impedance headphones. No need to blame science.


----------



## BrotherKathos

PointyFox said:


> There must be a problem with your amps. No need to blame science.



My amps are just fine Bill Nye


----------



## PointyFox

BrotherKathos said:


> My amps are just fine Bill Nye



Oh man I totally need a bowtie.


----------



## BrotherKathos

PointyFox said:


> Oh man I totally need a bowtie.



Well done


----------



## PointyFox

You should take that Richard Clark Amplifier Challenge.
Anyone who can prove they can tell amps apart will win $10,000.
So far no winners and a couple thousand losers. 
You seem to really believe though, so I have faith in you.

http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm


----------



## BrotherKathos (Sep 20, 2018)

PointyFox said:


> You should take that Richard Clark Amplifier Challenge.
> Anyone who can prove they can tell amps apart will win $10,000.
> So far no winners and a couple thousand losers.
> You seem to really believe though, so I have faith in you.
> ...



the way they word it makes sense as all amps do sound similar at extreme low volumes. Just the same is true with the magni 3 untill you turn the volume up a bit, where it becomes shrill when compared to my other amps. My Unit is actually being serviced for a bad volume pot, but i dout its simblant treble has anything to do with that. I’ve seen measurements that you put lots of faith into that seem to corroborate the harshness as you raise volume as the magni 3 starts to distort much sooner than a less powerfull topping headphone amp. So at low volumes yes you are right, it sounds fine and i have posted many times previously the same thing. Its sounds bad as you raise the volume. Why would i go on here and trash my own amp i paid money for when i expected it to sound great given all the glowing reviews? does not make much sense there does it? Fact is all amps dont sound the same in reality. Your science only holds true under non real life scenarios or extremely controlled conditions like that listening test.


----------



## PointyFox

BrotherKathos said:


> the way they word it makes sense as all amps do sound similar at extreme low volumes. Just the same is true with the magni 3 untill you turn the volume up a bit, where it becomes shrill when compared to my other amps. My Unit is actually being serviced for a bad volume pot, but i dout its simblant treble has anything to do with that. I’ve seen measurements that you put lots of faith into that seem to corroborate the harshness as you raise volume as the magni 3 starts to distort much sooner than a less powerfull topping headphone amp. So at low volumes yes you are right, it sounds fine and i have posted many times previously the same thing. Its sounds bad as you raise the volume. Why would i go on here and trash my own amp i paid money for when i expected it to sound great given all the glowing reviews? does not make much sense there does it? Fact is all amps dont sound the same in reality. Your science only holds true under non real life scenarios or extremely controlled conditions like that listening test.



Sounds like you're driving your amps to clipping. Don't do that. Get a more powerful amp if it is clipping.


----------



## BrotherKathos

PointyFox said:


> Sounds like you're driving your amps to clipping. Don't do that. Get a more powerful amp if it is clipping.



i dont see how that is possible unless schiit lied about the power ratings on the magni , which does not match up to the measurement i saw. I can easily listen to my O2 amp at a louder and less shrill volume than my magni 3 and the o2 has far less power. the measurment clearly showed the magni 3 was capable of 1.7 watts rms into around a 30 ohm  no clipping load, just that it was far less clean power than the competition. The reviewer did a blind test and found one unit to be brighter when he raised the volume and sure enough it was the magni 3. You can believe what you want and hear what you believe, but i found the same sound trend with my unit before i ecer saw that test. Why would i buy the thing otherwise?


----------



## tamleo

Hi,
I just sold the Magni2u and want to buy another Mangi3 or a Jotunheim. Is there anyone here compared the M3 and the Jot? Can you share some thoughts? Thank you!


----------



## PointyFox

tamleo said:


> Hi,
> I just sold the Magni2u and want to buy another Mangi3 or a Jotunheim. Is there anyone here compared the M3 and the Jot? Can you share some thoughts? Thank you!



They're both powerful. The Jotunheim looks fancier and has a balanced output. It also has a super black background. I don't remember the background on the Magni 3. The Magni 3 takes up less space.


----------



## beyermann (Sep 20, 2018)

BrotherKathos said:


> when you plug in your headphones on the magni 3, your speakers will be muted. I dont think the magni 3 will be too smooth at all, especially with DT770 headphones. It will be ‘ultra dynamic’



Why would my speakers be muted? See this:







My monitors would be plugged at outputs 1/2, so the 1/2 knob controls the monitor volume. Then the headphones would be in magni 3, and magni 3 would be plugged in 3/4 outputs, and 3/4 knob would control the amp volume. Why would it be muted? looks like a good setup to me. Or I will not be able to use both at once?

How to use headphones in an amp and monitors at once then?


----------



## BrotherKathos

beyermann said:


> Why would my speakers be muted? See this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As long as you are not using the magni 3 rca outs as a preamp, you can listen to headphones and speakers at the same time. Looks like you are doing something else.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Well the magni 3 has been repaired and is on the way back. Should get here around the same time as the Mimby, so I’m hopefully optimistic everything will be good now. The volume pot was replaced and I’m hoping the Mimby pairs better than my 4 other dacs did and the treble bias is gone. Wish me luck.


----------



## GearMe

PointyFox said:


> You should take that Richard Clark Amplifier Challenge.
> Anyone who can prove they can tell amps apart will win $10,000.
> So far no winners and a couple thousand losers.
> You seem to really believe though, so I have faith in you.
> ...



Assuming you believe that all amps are the same within a given power range as long as not driven to clipping?

If so, why buy a Violectric amp vs a Schiit vs a Topping/etc?


Clark's *Amplifier requirements*
The amplifiers in the test must be operated within their linear power capacity. Power capacity is defined as clipping or 2% THD 20Hz to 10kHz, whichever is less. This means that if one amplifier has more power (Watts) than the other, the amplifiers will be judged within the power range of the least powerful amplifier .


----------



## beyermann

BrotherKathos said:


> As long as you are not using the magni 3 rca outs as a preamp, you can listen to headphones and speakers at the same time. Looks like you are doing something else.



 I had this in mind:






So will this work?


----------



## BrotherKathos (Sep 21, 2018)

beyermann said:


> I had this in mind:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It looks like it. Your source that receives the usb signal from the pc apparently has 2 sets of rca outs that output the signal simultaneously.  I do the same thing with my dac, but it has balanced and rca outs for simultaneous use instead of multiple rca outs. Your unit is a bit strange to me since its rare to see stereo rca outs that are not red or white, usually when they are black like in your unit it means thay are digital coax inputs, but i guess you know that.


----------



## beyermann

BrotherKathos said:


> It looks like it. Your source that receives the usb signal from the pc apparently has 2 sets of rca outs that output the signal simultaneously.  I do the same thing with my dac, but it has balanced and rca outs for simultaneous use instead of multiple rca outs. Your unit is a bit strange to me since its rare to see stereo rca outs that are not red or white, usually when they are black like in your unit it means thay are digital coax inputs, but i guess you know that.



I didn't know about the colors. This was my first USB interface, I have been using it for years, did a decent job for 600 ohm headphones... I wonder how it will sound like in the magni 3 compared to the headphone jack in the AK1 which is now broken.

My plan is to keep using this one until I can buy a more serious interface like an RME, meanwhile keep saving. So spending 99 bucks on the magni 3 was the cheapest way to go about it while having the best sound quality, since if I bought another cheap DAC the headphone jack would be worse than buying the magni 3.

And would you control the headphone volume with the AK1 3/4 out knob or in the actual magni 3 knob? how would you position the knobs? would you put AK1 3/4 knob to the maximun and then only use the magni 3 knob or the opposite? im not sure what would be the best way to go about it to avoid distortion or any other problems. Maybe leave the 3/4 knob at half?


----------



## BrotherKathos

beyermann said:


> I didn't know about the colors. This was my first USB interface, I have been using it for years, did a decent job for 600 ohm headphones... I wonder how it will sound like in the magni 3 compared to the headphone jack in the AK1 which is now broken.
> 
> My plan is to keep using this one until I can buy a more serious interface like an RME, meanwhile keep saving. So spending 99 bucks on the magni 3 was the cheapest way to go about it while having the best sound quality, since if I bought another cheap DAC the headphone jack would be worse than buying the magni 3.
> 
> And would you control the headphone volume with the AK1 3/4 out knob or in the actual magni 3 knob? how would you position the knobs? would you put AK1 3/4 knob to the maximun and then only use the magni 3 knob or the opposite? im not sure what would be the best way to go about it to avoid distortion or any other problems. Maybe leave the 3/4 knob at half?



I'm not sure how your unit works, but when using the magni 3 I believe you want to have around 2vrms into the rca ins. I have no idea what your volume knob does on the usb interface you have though or what the rca out is rated for but I think it would be best to use the volume control on the magni 3 and max out volume o the rca outs on the interface if they are not going to clip on you. Do they act as a passive signal output or are they active? I don't want to give you the wrong info, but this is as close as I can get you with my limited knowledge. Maybe someone else here can chime in?


----------



## BrotherKathos (Sep 22, 2018)

Well I finally got all the equipment together. I had not liked the magni 3 before with all my other dacs and headphones except for the sennheiser hd598 Cs. I sent the magni 3 out for the volume pot being scratchy and that was fixed. No more scratching when i turn the knob. They did not find he treble bias issue i had with the magni 3 so thst was left alone. In the mean time while my unit was fixed I got a HD6XX and a Mimby in the hopes thst the notorious smooth Senns and the Mimby would pair better. Very quick turn around on service with Schiit.

The extra money spent paid off. The combo is now right in my preference zone. I did a quick ab with my he-400i with O2 amp and SMSL su-8 dac vs the magni mimby stack with the hdxx. I was only focused on hearing any grainy or overwhelming treble I’d been bothered by before. I put on a lower res 16 bit 256k m4a on and listened to both setups. I immediately noticed that the mimby stack with hdxx  had slightly less peaky treble than the smsl o2 stack with the he-400i. The mimby stack also has slightly stronger bass.  I’m listening to some 16 bit 256k solar fields electronic music atm and I can tell I will not become fatigued with this new setup as I’m currently listening at a little higher volume than normal. I know this is an apples to oranges test between the 2, but both of these combos are very good to my ears now.  The only way to tell which one I’ll like better is to see how the future goes and which one I end up listening to the most. The only real similarity between them is the cost. Both combos cost the exact same money in stock form at $550. The only modded part is on the he-400i which i replaced the stock pads with fenestrated lambskin which are much more comfy.

I’m now very satisfied with the magni 3 in its pairing with the Mimby and HDXX. This is great for people like me who prefer smooth, non peaky treble with somewhat darker bassier undertones. I’m liking these 2 little schiits quite well now. I’m not even going to try other headphones with the magni mimby stack as its just right as is.Thanks to Schiit audio for the quick repair and in promptly answering all my questions. They treated even a picky customer like me very well, and now I’m more inclined to buy more in the future from them considering.


----------



## beyermann

BrotherKathos said:


> I'm not sure how your unit works, but when using the magni 3 I believe you want to have around 2vrms into the rca ins. I have no idea what your volume knob does on the usb interface you have though or what the rca out is rated for but I think it would be best to use the volume control on the magni 3 and max out volume o the rca outs on the interface if they are not going to clip on you. Do they act as a passive signal output or are they active? I don't want to give you the wrong info, but this is as close as I can get you with my limited knowledge. Maybe someone else here can chime in?



I dont really understand what you are talking about to be honest. Im also a bit confused. You mentioned RCA outs but this unit has no RCA outs, all TRS ins or outs except the mic and midis:


----------



## BrotherKathos

beyermann said:


> I dont really understand what you are talking about to be honest. Im also a bit confused. You mentioned RCA outs but this unit has no RCA outs, all TRS ins or outs except the mic and midis:


l’m lost on your machine. all i see is mono outs for what looks like rca to me, then some 1/2 and 3/4 stereo outs. the balanced mono outs should not work and i guess the 1/2 and 3/4 could work with an rca adapter to hook with the magni 3 and speakers. But that machine is too foreign to me. I should stop now. good luck.


----------



## beyermann (Sep 23, 2018)

BrotherKathos said:


> l’m lost on your machine. all i see is mono outs for what looks like rca to me, then some 1/2 and 3/4 stereo outs. the balanced mono outs should not work and i guess the 1/2 and 3/4 could work with an rca adapter to hook with the magni 3 and speakers. But that machine is too foreign to me. I should stop now. good luck.



I don't see where the problem is to be honest. Look at the picture, it says "4 x 1/4" TRS Balanced Mono Outputs".  I can plug the magni 3 into the AK1 with this cable in the 3/4 TRS outs:

https://www.adamhall.com/shop/gb-en/pro-audio/pre-assembled-cables/audio-cable/3194/k3-tpc-0600

So basically:

magni 3 RCA ins -> that cable -> AK1 3/4 outs


----------



## Topmounter

beyermann said:


> I don't see where the problem is to be honest. Look at the picture, it says "4 x 1/4" TRS Balanced Mono Outputs".  I can plug the magni 3 into the AK1 with this cable in the 3/4 TRS outs:
> 
> https://www.adamhall.com/shop/gb-en/pro-audio/pre-assembled-cables/audio-cable/3194/k3-tpc-0600
> 
> ...



That's definitely a unique looking piece of kit, more of a 2-channel mixer than a typical headphone DAC/pre/amp.  If possible, I'd recommend setting the 3/4 output going to the Magni to be fixed rather than variable output (i.e. bypassing the volume control).


----------



## beyermann (Sep 25, 2018)

Topmounter said:


> That's definitely a unique looking piece of kit, more of a 2-channel mixer than a typical headphone DAC/pre/amp.  If possible, I'd recommend setting the 3/4 output going to the Magni to be fixed rather than variable output (i.e. bypassing the volume control).



How would one bypass the volume control? Im not sure I can do that. Wouldn't be the same as keeping the 3/4 knob at max volume and then control the volume with the magni 3 knob in practice? hopefully this doesn't lead to any distortions or anything. Im just scared of any knob being at its maximun capacity..

I have found in the manual a picture of the setup I was talking about, with the headphone amplifier:

https://www.native-instruments.com/.../pdf/AudioKontrol1_Manual_English.pdf#page=17

I wish the AK 1 headphone jack wasn't malfunctioning because I would be able to plug my earbuds there and at the same time have the headphones in the magni 3 so I don't need to switch everytime I want to use them (I don't like to wear headphones alll day, I take breaks with earbuds for non important audio)


----------



## Topmounter

beyermann said:


> How would one bypass the volume control? Im not sure I can do that. Wouldn't be the same as keeping the 3/4 knob at max volume and then control the volume with the magni 3 knob in practice? hopefully this doesn't lead to any distortions or anything. Im just scared of any knob being at its maximun capacity..
> 
> I have found in the manual a picture of the setup I was talking about, with the headphone amplifier:
> 
> ...



It doesn't appear that you can set either pair of outputs to fixed output (typically 2V rms for source components).  I didn't see anything in the manual about where you would need to set the volume knob for 'Unity Gain' so you're not over or under driving the headphone amplifier (to avoid distortion or picking up and amplifying unwanted noise).  Basically you want to get the volume adjusted to a neutral point on the AK1 and then adjust the volume on your headphone amp to your preferred listening level.


----------



## Indrajit

Hi.I want to connect my Fiio X5iii line out with Magni 3 Amp. Can anybody here recommend a good quality cable for the same purpose?


----------



## JamminVMI

BrotherKathos said:


> l’m lost on your machine. all i see is mono outs for what looks like rca to me, then some 1/2 and 3/4 stereo outs. the balanced mono outs should not work and i guess the 1/2 and 3/4 could work with an rca adapter to hook with the magni 3 and speakers. But that machine is too foreign to me. I should stop now. good luck.


Take a look at the 4 outs on his bottom foto - they’re listed as 1/4” TRS jacks, so headphone jacks! Colour me as never-seen-that-b4...


----------



## BrotherKathos

JamminVMI said:


> Take a look at the 4 outs on his bottom foto - they’re listed as 1/4” TRS jacks, so headphone jacks! Colour me as never-seen-that-b4...



Yea I'm totally lost on that one. Completely defeated.


----------



## JamminVMI

Indrajit said:


> Hi.I want to connect my Fiio X5iii line out with Magni 3 Amp. Can anybody here recommend a good quality cable for the same purpose?


Use the 3.5 mm set to line out to dual RCA, check cables for less or monoprice, they should have it. For even better sound, pick up aMode (preferably multibit ),Then use the FiiO cable that takes 3.5 out to SPDIF Coax, and set your X5iii to output digital, bypassing the internal DAC...

Hth...


----------



## JamminVMI

BrotherKathos said:


> Yea I'm totally lost on that one. Completely defeated.


I just read the manual, and those are each mono balanced... I’m lost, too...


----------



## Logistics

JamminVMI said:


> I just read the manual, and those are each mono balanced... I’m lost, too...



But the picture shows a switch on the face for two pairs (1/2 or 3/4) and the facial indicators list Monitors 1/2 or 3/4 so while it does seem odd that they don't list L/R for each pair, I suppose they expect you to figure it out.  I would guess 1 and 3 are automatically, LEFTS and 2 and 4 are RIGHTS.  So they are Tip and Ring, two-conductor jacks for use with monophonic cables, sent to separate monitors.


----------



## JamminVMI

Logistics said:


> But the picture shows a switch on the face for two pairs (1/2 or 3/4) and the facial indicators list Monitors 1/2 or 3/4 so while it does seem odd that they don't list L/R for each pair, I suppose they expect you to figure it out.  I would guess 1 and 3 are automatically, LEFTS and 2 and 4 are RIGHTS.  So they are Tip and Ring, two-conductor jacks for use with monophonic cables, sent to separate monitors.


Yeah, on page 13 of that manual (talking about the controls on the top!) it confirms that the stereo pairs are either 1&2 or 3&4. Wow...


----------



## Indrajit

JamminVMI said:


> Use the 3.5 mm set to line out to dual RCA, check cables for less or monoprice, they should have it. For even better sound, pick up aMode (preferably multibit ),Then use the FiiO cable that takes 3.5 out to SPDIF Coax, and set your X5iii to output digital, bypassing the internal DAC...
> 
> Hth...



Thanks 
I have one more question. What is the size of the Magni 3 headphone jack? Is it 3.5mm?


----------



## JamminVMI

Indrajit said:


> Thanks
> I have one more question. What is the size of the Magni 3 headphone jack? Is it 3.5mm?


1/4” - 6.35mm (offhand, I think that’s true for all Schiit single-ended hp outputs...).


----------



## Indrajit

JamminVMI said:


> 1/4” - 6.35mm (offhand, I think that’s true for all Schiit single-ended hp outputs...).



Thanks again


----------



## beyermann

JamminVMI said:


> Yeah, on page 13 of that manual (talking about the controls on the top!) it confirms that the stereo pairs are either 1&2 or 3&4. Wow...



Yes:







So my idea is to put 3&4 into the magni 3, and keep 1&2 for monitors. On the front panel, you have the 2 volume knobs for each pair.

This is actually great because that way I can just buy the magni 3 for 99 bucks and keep using my headphones and keep saving for a better USB interface.


----------



## Logistics

BrotherKathos said:


> i dont see how that is possible unless schiit lied about the power ratings on the magni , which does not match up to the measurement i saw. I can easily listen to my O2 amp at a louder and less shrill volume than my magni 3 and the o2 has far less power. the measurment clearly showed the magni 3 was capable of 1.7 watts rms into around a 30 ohm  no clipping load, just that it was far less clean power than the competition. The reviewer did a blind test and found one unit to be brighter when he raised the volume and sure enough it was the magni 3. You can believe what you want and hear what you believe, but i found the same sound trend with my unit before i ecer saw that test. Why would i buy the thing otherwise?



I use a Magni 3 with MDR-V700's, which are 24-Ohm, and I don't have these problems you're mentioning.  Of course I'm also, using the Modi 2 Uber, and my source is an M-Audio Delta 410 outputting over coax to the Modi.  My Magni 3 is on the low gain setting.  Windows volume is always at maximum.  I only listen to WAV files, ripped directly from CD's.

Maybe some other element we aren't considering.  My rig sounds awesome from classical to heavy metal to dubstep.  And I have eclectic tastes in music so I've heard many, many different genres over this rig.

Matthew


----------



## BrotherKathos (Oct 2, 2018)

Logistics said:


> I use a Magni 3 with MDR-V700's, which are 24-Ohm, and I don't have these problems you're mentioning.  Of course I'm also, using the Modi 2 Uber, and my source is an M-Audio Delta 410 outputting over coax to the Modi.  My Magni 3 is on the low gain setting.  Windows volume is always at maximum.  I only listen to WAV files, ripped directly from CD's.
> 
> Maybe some other element we aren't considering.  My rig sounds awesome from classical to heavy metal to dubstep.  And I have eclectic tastes in music so I've heard many, many different genres over this rig.
> 
> Matthew



I think I just simply don’t like the magni 3’s sound signature schiit designed in it. I sent it back to have it fixed and the volume pot was bad and replaced, but there were no problems found other than that. It was not until I got the hd6xx and modi multibit that I started to like the setup together with the magni 3. I cant listen to any other of my headphones with even the mimby magni 3 stack as its still too shouty up high for my tastes.

 That said though the hd6xx works great with the setup as long as I dont turn the volume up too high. I keep it on low gain and around 9:00 on the pot with the hd6xx and have actually been very pleased. It sounds great as a chill bedside setup where I’m generally reading and not cranking the volume. I think I just prefer a much warmer sound than maybe the average person, but at low volumes the slight treble and bass hike of the magni pairs well with the hd6xx and lets me hear everything clearly without getting any sense of that so called sennheiser’veil’.

I’m actually debating whether or not to try a Lyr 3 with the tung sol tube or project ember just to see if I can get some more smoothness up top and possibly retire the magni 3. At the same time I’m not sure it would be worth it because as i’ve said before I actually really like the mimby magni hdxx pairing at those chilling volume levels and the Lry 3 or ember might ruin the synergy for me. I’ve generally stayed away from tubes also due to my experience with them always having various issues like ringing, hiss or crackling that drives me nuts. I can ignore it on my old fender guitar amps but not on my ht or desktop stereo.


----------



## Logistics

The reason I decided on this Schiit stack was that I went to Can Jam in SF, and tried my V700's on several amps, and compared them to other headphones on the same amps.  Mine sounded best on the Modi/Magni combo.  I tried two other pairs on the combo, one I can't recall, but it was terrible.  The other was the HD 680's, which I didn't like at all.  They had the soundstage I was getting with the V700's, but they were so bright and tinny on the top end, I couldn't stand listening to them.  But that's just my ears.

Before I invested in the Schiit stack, I had a Yamaha C-65, and it had a very warm sound in comparison, but its upper end was not as clear.  It could just be due to age--I had planned on refreshing it until it fried one channel.  Maybe someday, but in the meantime, loving the Magni 3.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Logistics said:


> The reason I decided on this Schiit stack was that I went to Can Jam in SF, and tried my V700's on several amps, and compared them to other headphones on the same amps.  Mine sounded best on the Modi/Magni combo.  I tried two other pairs on the combo, one I can't recall, but it was terrible.  The other was the HD 680's, which I didn't like at all.  They had the soundstage I was getting with the V700's, but they were so bright and tinny on the top end, I couldn't stand listening to them.  But that's just my ears.
> 
> Before I invested in the Schiit stack, I had a Yamaha C-65, and it had a very warm sound in comparison, but its upper end was not as clear.  It could just be due to age--I had planned on refreshing it until it fried one channel.  Maybe someday, but in the meantime, loving the Magni 3.


Yea, the way you did it was the best way. Finding the right pairing for your tase through personal experience always trumps reviews from others, although they can help sometimes. My impressions of the o2 amp and jds labs el amp for the most part matched up with reviews, but the magni 3 was a total miss as it has been claimed to be slightly warm , where i found it to be past neutral and closer to bright.


----------



## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> ...I think I just simply don’t like the magni 3’s sound signature schiit designed in it....I think I just prefer a much warmer sound than maybe the average person, but at low volumes the slight treble and bass hike of the magni pairs well with the hd6xx and lets me hear everything clearly without getting any sense of that so called sennheiser’veil’.
> 
> I’m actually debating whether or not to try a Lyr 3 with the tung sol tube or project ember just to see if I can get some more smoothness up top and possibly retire the magni 3. At the same time I’m not sure it would be worth it because as i’ve said before I actually really like the mimby magni hdxx pairing at those chilling volume levels and the Lry 3 or ember might ruin the synergy for me.



I prefer a warmer balance also. I don't like a perfectly flat balance usually, but psychoacoustics can play a role also. Most systems whether headphone or speaker based don't do the bottom octave adequately, or at all. And if it's not there to begin with (adequate headroom combined with low distortion) EQ can't fix it. But in a system that really will do the bottom octave clean and with power, I find I don't mind a flat balance so much, in fact I'd say I like it better. The psychoacoustic trick is it no longer sounds overly bright, even tho the only difference is "real" bottom active has been added. Where the bottom octave cannot be added (because it's just not there to begin with) I find I have to use EQ to roll down the highs a bit to find musical pleasure. I also find trying to achieve the balance I prefer via the "system matching" approach to be hit or miss at best.

I think you may want to try a Loki in your chain before you write off the Magni 3 altogether.

BTW I had the opposite impression from your experience of the Magni 3 and O2 recently. My Topping D50 was not seen by the laptop for some reason and to trouble shoot I stuck in the Massdrop ODAC+O2. It worked but I also noticed a lack of dynamic heft and contrast...it seemed a bit grey compared to what I had become used to.

So next I wanted to see if the problem was the D50 or the Magni, so I ran the ODAC into the Magni, and it worked, and dynamics were back. At that point the Magni clearly seemed more dynamic, making me think it had something to do with greater headroom. And then I eventually got the D50 to be seen again, and was back to using the D50 and Magni.


----------



## BrotherKathos

treecloud said:


> I prefer a warmer balance also. I don't like a perfectly flat balance usually, but psychoacoustics can play a role also. Most systems whether headphone or speaker based don't do the bottom octave adequately, or at all. And if it's not there to begin with (adequate headroom combined with low distortion) EQ can't fix it. But in a system that really will do the bottom octave clean and with power, I find I don't mind a flat balance so much, in fact I'd say I like it better. The psychoacoustic trick is it no longer sounds overly bright, even tho the only difference is "real" bottom active has been added. Where the bottom octave cannot be added (because it's just not there to begin with) I find I have to use EQ to roll down the highs a bit to find musical pleasure. I also find trying to achieve the balance I prefer via the "system matching" approach to be hit or miss at best.
> 
> I think you may want to try a Loki in your chain before you write off the Magni 3 altogether.
> 
> ...



Thanks for reminding me about the Loki Treecloud. I forgot about that little box. I think you are right, and That might fix my problem. I do like how the bottom end is pronounced on the magni 3. I’m not really a bass head, but I do appreciate the ability to reproduce bass well in a system. My home theater has 2 1000 watt 18s and a 1000 watt 12 in it, but I swear I’m not a bass head..... probably lost my cred a bit there..... anyway I think you are right. Loki is a much more economical solution possibly. Thanks again.


----------



## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> ...I’m not really a bass head, but I do appreciate the ability to reproduce bass well in a system. My home theater has 2 1000 watt 18s and a 1000 watt 12 in it, but I swear I’m not a bass head..... probably lost my cred a bit there



No loss of cred with me! I have 4 15's in my speaker based system, and I'm not a bass head either


----------



## BrotherKathos

treecloud said:


> No loss of cred with me! I have 4 15's in my speaker based system, and I'm not a bass head either



I just ordered the Loki. Feels somewhat surreal to be getting a $150 eq for a $99 amp, but YOLO 

btw 4 15’s sounds like just enough bass hehe.


----------



## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> I just ordered the Loki. Feels somewhat surreal to be getting a $150 eq for a $99 amp, but YOLO
> 
> btw 4 15’s sounds like just enough bass hehe.



I don't have one yet, been considering it for a while now, will be interested in your impressions.


----------



## BrotherKathos

treecloud said:


> I don't have one yet, been considering it for a while now, will be interested in your impressions.



I’ll post them up for sure. I’m on the other end of the country so it’s going to be around 4 or 5 days most likely. I should be fine with the 8k adjustment to tame the magni a bit when i crank the volume. I’m listening to Bram stoker’s dracula soundtrack right now and on low gain at 9:00 with my hdxx it sounds great. But if i turn up the volume the trumpets get a bit shouty. The Loki should be just the schiit I need.


----------



## Logistics

I'm curious, now if I may find a difference in sound based on which digital my Modi is dealing with.  I'm using coax from the Delta 410, but most people who use this stack seem to be using USB.  I'm curious if the different conversions may add their own colorations.  My experience with my combo seems very balanced.  Which says a lot in my opinion because people tend to say my headphones are bass-heavy.  I don't find this to be true, but we all hear differently.


----------



## heckofagator

Hey gang, I'm interested in Magni, just curious what else, if anything, I should consider in the $100 price range.  I listen strictly on my PC at work where I have powered studio monitors hooked up to an Asus Xonar DX.  I like the fact that this amp has RCA outs on the back so I can have my monitors on all of the time and then when I want to listen to the headphones, I just plug in and the monitors turn off.

I tried a Bravo Ocean tube amp and it was fine for a while but I tended to forget to turn it off sometimes at night and I blew the tube out after 6 months.   Looking for something that could possible handle being left on moreso than something tube based.


----------



## BrotherKathos

treecloud said:


> I don't have one yet, been considering it for a while now, will be interested in your impressions.



I got the loki yesterday and hooked the mimby and magni 3 up. I’ve got the loki on he bottom and mimby in the middle. I have to say that I do like the loki. For my needs it works great. I’m not sure how the adjustment is graduated but I can only notice a huge change in treble for instance when I get the knob down to around 9:30 or 10:00.  

I’ve found that putting the knob on the 8k treble to around 11:15 ir so takes the edge off of the magni 3 enough for me to listen for long periods with my Audeze lcd2c. Before I could only handle the hdxx,  but now I prefer ther lcd2c with the adjustment. I moved the hdxx to my topping d50 and jds labs el amp setup and its awesome there as well. The el amp and d50 together sounds great on all my headphones especially with the slow linear digital filter on the d50. 

I don’t notice any additional noise or sound color from adding the loki to the chain. Whether its on with all knobs at 12:00 or when in bypass mode. Seem like a pretty sweet product so far. I’d recommend it to anyone looking for a simple way to tame or add certain ranges of frequencies without having to get to complicated. Its definitely making me enjoy the magni 3 more now and I finally feel like I can listen to multiple headphones on this setup. Its funny though, I ended up spending the same total money on this schiit stack as I did on the d50 and element combo. The thing that now works in the schiit stack’s favor is its versatility, even though the el amp and d50 combo is a bit cleaner and better in its untouched form to handle multiple headphones. 

I’m not sure which one I like better now. I think its going to come down to reliability, control and convince to determine which one I like more.
I hope this is helpful to anyone interested in a magni 3 or Loki.


----------



## BrotherKathos

heckofagator said:


> Hey gang, I'm interested in Magni, just curious what else, if anything, I should consider in the $100 price range.  I listen strictly on my PC at work where I have powered studio monitors hooked up to an Asus Xonar DX.  I like the fact that this amp has RCA outs on the back so I can have my monitors on all of the time and then when I want to listen to the headphones, I just plug in and the monitors turn off.
> 
> I tried a Bravo Ocean tube amp and it was fine for a while but I tended to forget to turn it off sometimes at night and I blew the tube out after 6 months.   Looking for something that could possible handle being left on moreso than something tube based.



The magni 3 seems like it might be a good fit for you then. I dont know of any other amp and preamp combos like it in its price range and I use it for both as well. I use it with a klipsch portable boom box for very low sleepy time music when not using headphones. Works great for that. I’d recommend the hdxx for the magni 3 if you like a warm sound signature or at least some headphones with a similar color. Or do like me and get a loki for it if you eventually decide to up your budget.


----------



## smallcaps

heckofagator said:


> Hey gang, I'm interested in Magni, just curious what else, if anything, I should consider in the $100 price range.  I listen strictly on my PC at work where I have powered studio monitors hooked up to an Asus Xonar DX.  I like the fact that this amp has RCA outs on the back so I can have my monitors on all of the time and then when I want to listen to the headphones, I just plug in and the monitors turn off.
> 
> I tried a Bravo Ocean tube amp and it was fine for a while but I tended to forget to turn it off sometimes at night and I blew the tube out after 6 months.   Looking for something that could possible handle being left on moreso than something tube based.


Haven't heard it yet, but the Monoprice Liquid Spark might be a contender.


----------



## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> I got the loki yesterday and hooked the mimby and magni 3 up. I’ve got the loki on he bottom and mimby in the middle. I have to say that I do like the loki. For my needs it works great. I’m not sure how the adjustment is graduated but I can only notice a huge change in treble for instance when I get the knob down to around 9:30 or 10:00.
> 
> I’ve found that putting the knob on the 8k treble to around 11:15 ir so takes the edge off of the magni 3 enough for me to listen for long periods with my Audeze lcd2c. Before I could only handle the hdxx,  but now I prefer ther lcd2c with the adjustment. I moved the hdxx to my topping d50 and jds labs el amp setup and its awesome there as well. The el amp and d50 together sounds great on all my headphones especially with the slow linear digital filter on the d50.
> 
> ...



Good review, thanks. I'll get one sooner or later! My speaker based rig is 2 channel, will be curious to hear it there too.


----------



## GearMe

smallcaps said:


> Haven't heard it yet, but the Monoprice Liquid Spark might be a contender.



Thanks for the reminder about the Cavalli gear at Monoprice!  Ordered one today...

I 'needed' to get another high-value amp for my nightstand since I moved the Magni 3 to a different location.  Never had any Cavalli designed gear; for $99...why not give it a try?


----------



## smallcaps

GearMe said:


> Thanks for the reminder about the Cavalli gear at Monoprice!  Ordered one today...
> 
> I 'needed' to get another high-value amp for my nightstand since I moved the Magni 3 to a different location.  Never had any Cavalli designed gear; for $99...why not give it a try?


Also pulled the trigger for one but international shipping was a bit steep. If all indications are true, the spark is going to be the amp to beat at the $100 mark. The measurements are looking spot-on. Now it just needs to pass the ear test and we may have a winner.


----------



## treecloud

This is cool...Shiit got their butt in gear and developed a $100 DAC that is the best performing DAC they've ever offered:

"Modi 3 is the first product developed using new investments in Audio Precision and Avermetrics test equipment, which has helped it to be the best-performing DAC Schiit has ever offered, when using conventional metrics. A full APx555 report is provided in the product specs."

Product announcement page:
http://www.schiit.com/about/news/99-modi-3-redefines-the-2-figure-dac

Would be a good match for the Magni 3 if I didn't already have the D50. Maybe I'll get it anyway to have a stack including the Loki, move the D50 to the speaker based rig...


----------



## Mike-WI

treecloud said:


> This is cool...Shiit got their butt in gear and developed a $100 DAC that is the best performing DAC they've ever offered:
> 
> "Modi 3 is the first product developed using new investments in Audio Precision and Avermetrics test equipment, which has helped it to be the best-performing DAC Schiit has ever offered, when using conventional metrics. A full APx555 report is provided in the product specs."
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone is saying it is the best performing DAC they offer.
It is a nice DAC for $100.
They have a whole range of DACs that are more expensive and better.
http://www.schiit.com/guides/choosing-a-dac


----------



## treecloud

Mike-WI said:


> I don't think anyone is saying it is the best performing DAC they offer.
> It is a nice DAC for $100.
> They have a whole range of DACs that are more expensive and better.
> http://www.schiit.com/guides/choosing-a-dac



Jason said it in the quote from the product announcement page (link above), with a caveat you can choose to signify or ignore, your choice

again:
the best-performing DAC Schiit has ever offered, _*when using conventional metrics*_.


----------



## Mike-WI

Here is the full press release.
Bolded words.
I don't think this means "best performing DAC they've ever offered". 
It means measures well. Which is cool. Just don't want to suggest that a $100 DAC beats all of their other DACs.


http://www.schiit.com/about/news/99-modi-3-redefines-the-2-figure-dac

*$99 MODI 3 REDEFINES THE 2-FIGURE DAC*
USB, Optical, and Coax Inputs; USB or External Power


September 21, 2018, Valencia, CA. Today, Schiit Audio announced the introduction the Modi 3, the third generation of its popular, high-value DAC. Modi 3 is a significant enhancement over previous Modi 2, offering 3 digital inputs (rather than just USB), a premium AK4490 D/A converter with active filtering and DC-coupled output, and the capability to be powerd by USB or with an external power supply. A 5V wall power supply and USB Micro cable are provided. Retail price remains at $99.

“This is how you define progress,” said Mike Moffat, Schiit’s Co-Founder, and chief digital designer. “The original Modi in 2012 was a USB-only DAC that worked only up to 24/96, and provided only 1.5V RMS output due to its simple USB power supply. Now, Modi 3 gives you three switchable digital inputs, a better D/A converter, 24/192 capability, a dual rail power supply and full 2.0V RMS output—and we included a wall-wart and a USB cable, for the same price as the original Modi.”

Despite its low cost, Modi 3 is quite a sophisticated design, using custom firmware and a Microchip microprocessor for system control and oversight. In addition, Schiit worked with C-Media to extend its power-sensing-and-reporting code from Fulla 2 to this higher-performance DAC.

“This helps us eliminate ‘draws too much power’ errors,” said Jason Stoddard, Schiit’s Co-Founder. “If you use the included external power supply, Modi 3 reports as a 0mA USB device. This means it works much better with phones and tablets, which usually don’t want a lot of power pulled from their USB ports. Or, you can just plug the single supplied USB Micro cable into virtually any computer, and Modi 3 will get both its power and data from there.”

This versatility allows Modi 3 to be used in the same way as the outgoing Modi 2 and Modi 2 Uber. Connect one USB cable to use it as a single-input, USB-only DAC, or use the included power supply and connect up your optical and coaxial digital sources. 

In addition, Modi 3 is the first product developed using new investments in Audio Precision and Avermetrics test equipment, which has *helped it to be the best-performing DAC Schiit has ever offered, when using conventional metrics*. A full APx555 report is provided in the product specs.

Modi 3 replaces both Modi 2 and Modi 2 Uber, at $99. It is available for purchase now at schiit.com

About Schiit Audio 
Founded in June 2010 by Jason Stoddard and Mike Moffat, Schiit has grown into a leader in affordable high-end audio, with a wide range of products spanning DACs, headphone amplifiers, and preamplifiers, from $49 to $2399. 

Press Contact
Denise Martin, denise@schiit.com


----------



## treecloud

Mike-WI said:


> I don't think this means "best performing DAC they've ever offered".
> It means measures well. Which is cool. Just don't want to suggest that a $100 DAC beats all of their other DACs.
> http://www.schiit.com/about/news/99-modi-3-redefines-the-2-figure-dac



It simply (and clearly) means what it says, no more no less, but more than simply "it measures well" (zillions of DACS measure well, therefore a phrase that is nearly meaningless).

You apparently find no significance in the fact (according to the announcement release) that Schiit has produced a DAC for $100 that measures better than any other they have produced to this date?

Of course it opens a can of worms, which I feel sure is exactly what Schiit intended to do.


----------



## riffrafff

The Modi 3 is the old Modi and Modi Uber combined.  Still just a 4490 D/S DAC.  (Which is to say, it doesn't hold a candle to the Mimby.)


----------



## treecloud

riffrafff said:


> The Modi 3 is the old Modi and Modi Uber combined.  Still just a 4490 D/S DAC.  (Which is to say, it doesn't hold a candle to the Mimby.)



It may be worth noting that when current generation Bifrost models came out (4490 and Multibit) there were many user comparisons that preferred the 4490, although most also said they were both excellent. Horses for courses I guess....


----------



## SomeTechNoob

It measures well on ASR, which is a huge change for a Schiit dac.  At the $100 price point it's super competitive imo.  No more USB issues, full 2v line level output.  Just doing what a dac should do at a reasonable price.  A Mimby is more than twice as expensive - which for a lot of people is unobtainable.


----------



## riffrafff

SomeTechNoob said:


> A Mimby is more than twice as expensive...



True that.

I've noticed that strict, volume-matched ABX tests don't reveal a whole of differences (mostly).  Where the Mimby comes through, for me, is in sequential alternating listening sessions.  I find that the Mimby is just more...satisfying (again, to my ears and preferences).


----------



## treecloud

riffrafff said:


> True that.
> 
> I've noticed that strict, volume-matched ABX tests don't reveal a whole of differences (mostly).  Where the Mimby comes through, for me, is in sequential alternating listening sessions.  I find that the Mimby is just more...satisfying (again, to my ears and preferences).



I've had the same experience. It's a complex topic, but it seems to me there may be relevant perceptual resolution limits imposed by ABX conditions. When it comes to aesthetics subtle can be significant.

And on the other had ABX reveals differences may not be as great as previously thought. So I find it to be a useful reference point for that reason alone.


----------



## Indrajit

I tried Magni 3 with Fiio X5iii and felt that the sound was very warmish. Has anybody felt the same sonic tonality out of a Magni 3. Is this an amplifier with neutral or warm tonality. If it's warm then it is really a bad match for my X5iii as that too is known for its warmth.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Indrajit said:


> I tried Magni 3 with Fiio X5iii and felt that the sound was very warmish. Has anybody felt the same sonic tonality out of a Magni 3. Is this an amplifier with neutral or warm tonality. If it's warm then it is really a bad match for my X5iii as that too is known for its warmth.


The magni 3 is bright compared to my o2 amp and jds labs el amp, both of which strive for neutrality.


----------



## Logistics

Ah ah ah!  Remember to mention which cans it sounds bright with.  I used the Modi/Magni stack at Can Jam, and it sounded bright with HD 680's, but neutral in comparison with my MDR-V700's.


----------



## Logistics

treecloud said:


> It may be worth noting that when current generation Bifrost models came out (4490 and Multibit) there were many user comparisons that preferred the 4490, although most also said they were both excellent. Horses for courses I guess....



This is very relevant as I have come across groups who feel single bit is superior to multibit, when it comes to redbook audio and DAC's.


----------



## DavidA

riffrafff said:


> True that.
> 
> I've noticed that strict, volume-matched ABX tests don't reveal a whole of differences (mostly).  Where the Mimby comes through, for me, is in sequential alternating listening sessions.  I find that the Mimby is just more...satisfying (again, to my ears and preferences).





treecloud said:


> I've had the same experience. It's a complex topic, but it seems to me there may be relevant perceptual resolution limits imposed by ABX conditions. When it comes to aesthetics subtle can be significant.
> 
> And on the other had ABX reveals differences may not be as great as previously thought. So I find it to be a useful reference point for that reason alone.


both of you are on the right track, for me it was trying to figure out the which of my Bifrost (Uber and MD) I liked better, turns out I like them both since they are quite different.  The Uber has a bit of an edge while the Bimby is a bit smoother, it becomes a preference which I prefer with a certain amp/headphone and genre.



Indrajit said:


> I tried Magni 3 with Fiio X5iii and felt that the sound was very warmish. Has anybody felt the same sonic tonality out of a Magni 3. Is this an amplifier with neutral or warm tonality. If it's warm then it is really a bad match for my X5iii as that too is known for its warmth.


While I haven't heard a X5iii the Magni3 is a touch on the brighter side to me so I'm a bit surprised that you found the X5iii + Magni3 on the warm side which would mean that the X5iii is really on the warm side.


----------



## Indrajit

BrotherKathos said:


> The magni 3 is bright compared to my o2 amp and jds labs el amp, both of which strive for neutrality.



Thanks for the response


----------



## Indrajit

DavidA said:


> both of you are on the right track, for me it was trying to figure out the which of my Bifrost (Uber and MD) I liked better, turns out I like them both since they are quite different.  The Uber has a bit of an edge while the Bimby is a bit smoother, it becomes a preference which I prefer with a certain amp/headphone and genre.
> 
> 
> While I haven't heard a X5iii the Magni3 is a touch on the brighter side to me so I'm a bit surprised that you found the X5iii + Magni3 on the warm side which would mean that the X5iii is really on the warm side.



Perhaps. I have only used low gain on Magni 3 with Senn HD 598 so maybe high gain would seem more dynamic. It could also be some songs are like that. Plus I have only listened to the set up only one day.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Logistics said:


> Ah ah ah!  Remember to mention which cans it sounds bright with.  I used the Modi/Magni stack at Can Jam, and it sounded bright with HD 680's, but neutral in comparison with my MDR-V700's.



The magni 3 was brighter than the o2 and el amp with all my headphones. i think they are all listed in my profile. One strange thing I noticed was that my Audeze lcd2c was brighter on the magni3 than my hdxx. If we were going to make assumptions based on measurements alone then the lcd2c should have been warmer than the hdxx but for some reason were not.

They had this peaky harshness to them with the magni 3 that was still there with the hdxx but not as much. I don’t know if it has something to do with planars or the difference in ohm stability across the frequency range but the lcd2c was definitely brighter than my hdxx with the magni. My least favorite headphones with the magni 3 were my Hifiman he-400i. Really fatiguing highs with that pairing. My audioengine d1 is also smoother than the magni 3 but it has its iwn akm dac vs the sabre dacs i used with the magni 3 so not a fair comparison. I would recommend the magni 3 for anyone who likes the sound of Beyerdynamic headphones when paired with a neutral amp. You’ll get a slightly less dynamic reproduction with the magni 3 when paired with a more neutral set of headphones. I noticed this when I hooked my KEF M500 to it.


----------



## Logistics

You know, I just thought of something that leads me to believe you may be right about the Magni being a normally, bright amp.  My headphones have a reputation for being bass heavy.  However they were not when I was using a modded SbLive, which probably had it's low-frequency cut-off raised due to the smaller decoupling caps I installed between the output amps and the DSP.  However, on my refreshed SB16, the bass became very heavy.

So perhaps my headphones tendency to emphasise bottom end, and not top end is what causes them to be a neutral pairing with the Magni.


----------



## Robert Padgett

ahmadfaizadnan said:


> Cool! I should've bought this before if I knew this earlier.



I can second that emotion. I wrote a column at "Affordable Audiophile" about my desire to design a power source for all the wall-worts to eliminate the cluster-frank of extension strips and power cords. 

 
I sure wish Schiit would promote the Floor Wort more prominently in their page, as like you, and I would have bought that initially when building our stack.


----------



## Robert Padgett

I am new here so if I have written this to wrong forum, my apologies...

I moved my High Fidelity Cables Magnetic Adapters to the PYST interconnects between the Modi Multibit and the Magni 3, and the results were a remarkable improvement in sound quality, elimination of any harshness, or mid-range bloat. 
I would suggest that this could be the one essential upgrade to my Headphone experience with the Schiit Stack. 

I use a Wyrd decrapifier to clean-up the USB feed from a RasPi end-point. USB from the RasPi is like the Public Bathroom of Noise, as all functions of the Single Board Computer run through a single USB Bus. The Wyrd handles it. 

Of course, the Magnetic Conduction technology focus the signal path and eliminates the signal loss to diffusion, even on the 6-inch run of interconnects. It was burned-in for 400-hours, so the Magnetic Conduction could spread its effect throughout the circuits of both the Mimby and Magni 3. 

HFC Magnetic Adapters are available at http://www.highfidelitycables.com/products/adapters/rca/


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## beyermann

I've heard the magni 3 is:

-on the warm side
-neutral
-bright

So yeah, I guess i will need to try it for myself. What i've definitely heard from everyone is that they are the best money-reward amp.

I would like to buy them but im in France, should I use this site?

https://schiit.eu.com/

And how long should I expect the package to take to arrive?


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## lantian

beyermann said:


> I've heard the magni 3 is:
> 
> -on the warm side
> -neutral
> ...


My impressions are that magni 3 has no particular signature of its own, it is pretty damn transparent. To me it seems that it is pretty great at amplifying the source without adding anything. Lack of power @600ohm are the only issues I have with the device.


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## beyermann

lantian said:


> My impressions are that magni 3 has no particular signature of its own, it is pretty damn transparent. To me it seems that it is pretty great at amplifying the source without adding anything. Lack of power @600ohm are the only issues I have with the device.



Well im buying it for the DT770 600ohm. Will it fall short? I don't need loud volumes since they isolate background noise pretty well. I was told pretty much anything else on the cheap price ranges is crappy.


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## Rensek

My Magni 3 In high gain gets my HD6XX at ear splitting volume at 11-12 o clock. I know the beyers are 600 ohm, but I gotta think the Magni 3 can handle it.


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## audiobomber (Oct 17, 2018)

I use the Magni 3 on low gain with my 250-ohm DT 1990. I just ordered an Asgard 2. It will be very interesting to hear how the Schiit amps compare.


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## beyermann

And anyone knows how much does it take for it to arrive to europe?


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## Robert Padgett (Oct 17, 2018)

www.facebook.com/notes/affordable-audiophile/take-the-room-out-of-your-sound/2142960359357256/
I am just offering this for your reading pleasure. I don't believe in forcing the group to endure my writing...so it all about choice.
I have found the Magni3 rather neutral, with a Modi MB and Wyrd.
I have often written that I like "the Schiit sound". 
This version is the first headphone amp I have purchased, so I can not compare, except to the headphone stage in the Sprout100, which is a different sound entirely.


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## Rensek (Oct 17, 2018)

beyermann said:


> And anyone knows how much does it take for it to arrive to europe?



I'd try one of these two sites

https://www.schiit-europe.com
https://schiit.eu.com


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## tamleo

audiobomber said:


> I use the Magni 3 on low gain with my 250-ohm DT 1990. I just ordered an Asgard 2. It will be very interesting to hear how the Schiit amps compare.


I own both. There are only 2 things that the A2 can compete with the M3 is the naturalness in portraying instrumental sound and the depth of bass.
Don't really know why Schiit still sell the A2.


----------



## lantian

beyermann said:


> Well im buying it for the DT770 600ohm. Will it fall short? I don't need loud volumes since they isolate background noise pretty well. I was told pretty much anything else on the cheap price ranges is crappy.


The Bayers are more sensitive than my HD 540 RG, but I can not comment on how good they will match. So far I have concluded that for an amp to be able to drive HD 540 RG 600ohm properly it needs atleast 1w per channel(or around 25-30vrms) into 600ohm load, otherwise it just is not enough, they sound thin.


----------



## DavidA

tamleo said:


> I own both. There are only 2 things that the A2 can compete with the M3 is the naturalness in portraying instrumental sound and the depth of bass.
> Don't really know why Schiit still sell the A2.


The A2 was made to stack with Bifrost/Bimby and match the other medium side amps like Lyr2/3 and Valhalla2, it doesn't have a wall wart (which I prefer), and it doesn't have the input level issue like the Magni3.  With that said I do like the size of the Magni3 but I didn't care for it with most of my headphones (HD800, HD700, T1gen1, HE560 and RS2e) since to me its a touch on the bright side of neutral IMO.


----------



## Logistics

lantian said:


> The Bayers are more sensitive than my HD 540 RG, but I can not comment on how good they will match. So far I have concluded that for an amp to be able to drive HD 540 RG 600ohm properly it needs atleast 1w per channel(or around 25-30vrms) into 600ohm load, otherwise it just is not enough, they sound thin.



That's interesting.  I know the basic 540's spec a nominal load of 200mW, so the Magni is not about to overdrive them with its 230mW spec at 600-Ohms.  However, I'm curious what you are feeding a signal to the Magni with.


----------



## beyermann

Im going to be using Audio Kontrol 1 with the Magni 3, will it have problems with the dt770 600 ohm? I don't want to spend more than 200 bucks for now.


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## tamleo (Oct 18, 2018)

deleted


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## lantian

Logistics said:


> That's interesting.  I know the basic 540's spec a nominal load of 200mW, so the Magni is not about to overdrive them with its 230mW spec at 600-Ohms.  However, I'm curious what you are feeding a signal to the Magni with.


Yes that is if you could ever listen to it at 90% volume, my ears will bled out till i get there. So far have not seen any headphones that don't love more power. I do think that you need a amp with alteast 4x headphone rating to make sure you can comfortably use it at 10-12 o clock without the need to ever go higher.
So far that spec seems BS to me, or rather not really explained properly. I have been driving my with ampo that have 4-30 times the power they need or are rated for and every time they sounded fantastic.
Fiio x7 mk2 is the source, my g5hp is the only amp I have, if I want to listen to HD 540 RG, that can drive those cans.


----------



## audiobomber

lantian said:


> make sure you can comfortably use it at 10-12 o clock without the need to ever go higher.


I don't agree. I routinely turn my volume on my Magni 1 to 3:00 o'clock. As long as there's no noise (and there isn't), there's no disadvantage to this and volume pots track more reliably the more they are cranked.


----------



## treecloud

lantian said:


> Yes that is if you could ever listen to it at 90% volume, my ears will bled out till i get there. So far have not seen any headphones that don't love more power. I do think that you need a amp with alteast 4x headphone rating to make sure you can comfortably use it at 10-12 o clock without the need to ever go higher.
> So far that spec seems BS to me, or rather not really explained properly. I have been driving my with ampo that have 4-30 times the power they need or are rated for and every time they sounded fantastic.
> Fiio x7 mk2 is the source, my g5hp is the only amp I have, if I want to listen to HD 540 RG, that can drive those cans.



This is an interesting topic that belongs in the category "things that really matter". Compression distortion is the worst, whether it's mechanical transducers or amplification. It's why a line source speaker with 20 tweeters and 20 mids can be a relief after listening to conventional designs, the line source drivers never approaching non-linear behavior at any (reasonably sane) playback level.

And then there are the devices that are very low distortion, but with inadequate headroom for realistic playback levels. Electrostatic speakers for example can sound ravishing at lower levels, just don't turn them up


----------



## audiobomber

treecloud said:


> This is an interesting topic that belongs in the category "things that really matter". Compression distortion is the worst, whether it's mechanical transducers or amplification. It's why a line source speaker with 20 tweeters and 20 mids can be a relief after listening to conventional designs, the line source drivers never approaching non-linear behavior at any (reasonably sane) playback level.



This is a false analogy. The volume potentiometer setting on an amplifier does not compress the signal. 

A volume pot on an amp controls (i.e. amplifies or attenuates) the level of the upstream signal. A very low pot setting can cause a channel imbalance (one channel louder than the other), especially on a low cost pot such as the one used in a Magni 3. Turning the pot higher, even all the way open, is not a problem, as long as the output does not cause clipping in the amp or overload the headphones. 

You can test this easily for yourself. Use a source that allows you to control volume (e.g. foobar2000 or Chromecast Audio). Turn it down very low and turn your amp to max. Your will hear no distortion in the headphones. The music will sound the same if you set the source for max and control the volume with the amp pot.


----------



## treecloud

audiobomber said:


> This is a false analogy. The volume potentiometer setting on an amplifier does not compress the signal.



Not talking about the volume control, talking about overdriving an amplifier beyond clipping. Or even driving into that region before clipping where behavior becomes less linear.

But yes your point is correct, volume controls can be implemented in many ways. An amplifier can be designed so that vol is maxed and behavior is still linear (commercial amps are rarely designed that way).


----------



## Logistics

lantian said:


> Yes that is if you could ever listen to it at 90% volume, my ears will bled out till i get there. So far have not seen any headphones that don't love more power. I do think that you need a amp with alteast 4x headphone rating to make sure you can comfortably use it at 10-12 o clock without the need to ever go higher.
> So far that spec seems BS to me, or rather not really explained properly. I have been driving my with ampo that have 4-30 times the power they need or are rated for and every time they sounded fantastic.
> Fiio x7 mk2 is the source, my g5hp is the only amp I have, if I want to listen to HD 540 RG, that can drive those cans.


I'm not certain, but I'm concerned that while the Fiio is a dedicated DAP, it's line-level signal may not be the strongest point.  While the Magni may be a pre-amp on the side, you might need a pre-amp to feed your Magni.  I use headphones that can accept 3W, so my threshold is even lower than yours, as long as the nominal spec on your headphones is correct.  The amps power output is one thing, but it's still at the mercy of the strength of your source signal, correct?


----------



## lantian (Oct 18, 2018)

Logistics said:


> I'm not certain, but I'm concerned that while the Fiio is a dedicated DAP, it's line-level signal may not be the strongest point.  While the Magni may be a pre-amp on the side, you might need a pre-amp to feed your Magni.  I use headphones that can accept 3W, so my threshold is even lower than yours, as long as the nominal spec on your headphones is correct.  The amps power output is one thing, but it's still at the mercy of the strength of your source signal, correct?


1,8Vrms should be enough. Simply for my headphones the magni 3 is far to weak, only solution is another more powerfull amp...
To me once I plug my 600ohm hones in it is immidiatly noticable lack of power, while 300ohm ones seem happy with the amount it has. Even so they love the extra power that g5hp gives, they just don't need it to live like the 600ohm ones


----------



## BrotherKathos

I’ve personally run into the issue of the magni 3 being too powerful. Many days I prefer listening to music at soft levels more like you might find in a lounge setting. The magni 3 power rating coupled with its low gain setting does not allow me to do this as I do run into the channel imbalance problem close to or at my desired volume with the mimby and my Audeze lcd2c. This and the treble bias of the magni 3 is what led me to put an order in yesterday for an asgard 2. Its lower power rating and gain setting should allow me to listen at a more comfortable range to my preference as well as taming some of the highs. I’ll either be moving my magni 3 and loki setup to my other desktop with my he-400i or just sell them outright and continue to use the massdrop o2 desktop amp as it works just fine by itself with the hifiman planars.


----------



## strooper

I'm new to Schiit.  Until now, all my gear has been truly portable (Calyx M, Onkyo DP-X1, Ibasso DX-150 and Concero HP).  After selling off some IEMs and the Concero, I decided to dive into Schiit.  I'd read the audio science reviews, I'd read the head-fi reviews, I'd read the independent reviews.  In the end, having never heard a Schiit product, what sold me was two things: (1) evident confidence in their product and (2) made in the USA.  The latter is not born of confidence that American-made products are necessarily better, but rather that I'm rewarding a company that keeps more of my money in the US.  The former is maybe misguided.  Anybody can express self-esteem that isn't warranted, but Schiit's pitch isn't braggadocio, but rather confidence that they know a lot (but not everything) and that they haven't closed their minds to anything.  16-bit multibit: can you hear the difference?  I don't know.  But I respect a company that sells delta-sigma and 16-bit multibit and lets you decide.  Tube?  OTL?  Hybrid?  Balanced?  They provide affordable products that check each box.   I respect that.   And given that we live in a great era where lots of affordable gear sounds really damn good, I am happy to give my money to the people who embrace the ethos of choice, quality and economy. 

I may be a sentimental fool.  I may be a dope who doesn't buy the cheapest gear that tests well.  I may be all sorts of stupid (odds are good...).  But having listened for three or or more hours a day all this week to my new Schiit Multibit Modi and Magni 3 stack, I am DEFINITELY happy with my purchase.


----------



## BrotherKathos

strooper said:


> I'm new to Schiit.  Until now, all my gear has been truly portable (Calyx M, Onkyo DP-X1, Ibasso DX-150 and Concero HP).  After selling off some IEMs and the Concero, I decided to dive into Schiit.  I'd read the audio science reviews, I'd read the head-fi reviews, I'd read the independent reviews.  In the end, having never heard a Schiit product, what sold me was two things: (1) evident confidence in their product and (2) made in the USA.  The latter is not born of confidence that American-made products are necessarily better, but rather that I'm rewarding a company that keeps more of my money in the US.  The former is maybe misguided.  Anybody can express self-esteem that isn't warranted, but Schiit's pitch isn't braggadocio, but rather confidence that they know a lot (but not everything) and that they haven't closed their minds to anything.  16-bit multibit: can you hear the difference?  I don't know.  But I respect a company that sells delta-sigma and 16-bit multibit and lets you decide.  Tube?  OTL?  Hybrid?  Balanced?  They provide affordable products that check each box.   I respect that.   And given that we live in a great era where lots of affordable gear sounds really damn good, I am happy to give my money to the people who embrace the ethos of choice, quality and economy.
> 
> I may be a sentimental fool.  I may be a dope who doesn't buy the cheapest gear that tests well.  I may be all sorts of stupid (odds are good...).  But having listened for three or or more hours a day all this week to my new Schiit Multibit Modi and Magni 3 stack, I am DEFINITELY happy with my purchase.



Glad to hear you are enjoying your first taste of schiit


----------



## BrotherKathos

I switched my setup around a bit. I'm now using the magni 3 and loki with my SMSL SU-8 and my Hifiman he-400i with the fenestrated sheepskin pads. The magni 3 was a bit too powerful with all my other phones, but is perfect for driving the 400i since they are really inefficient planars. I've got the loki sub bass to 2:00 midrange to 11:30 and the treble to 10:00 and its a great sounding match. My he-400i has been my least favorite headphones next to my KEF M500 for a while since they were a bit down on bass heft and a bit too sparkly up top. The loki fixes all that and stacks nicely with the magni 3 to give a nice aesthetic. Now I've got to come up with a use for my o2 amp after my asgard 2 gets here in a couple of days assuming I like the asgard 2...


----------



## DavidA

BrotherKathos said:


> I switched my setup around a bit. I'm now using the magni 3 and loki with my SMSL SU-8 and my Hifiman he-400i with the fenestrated sheepskin pads. The magni 3 was a bit too powerful with all my other phones, but is perfect for driving the 400i since they are really inefficient planars. I've got the loki sub bass to 2:00 midrange to 11:30 and the treble to 10:00 and its a great sounding match. My he-400i has been my least favorite headphones next to my KEF M500 for a while since they were a bit down on bass heft and a bit too sparkly up top. The loki fixes all that and stacks nicely with the magni 3 to give a nice aesthetic. Now I've got to come up with a use for my o2 amp after my asgard 2 gets here in a couple of days assuming I like the asgard 2...


After using a friends Magni3 for a few weeks I still prefer the sound of my Asgard2 over the Magni3 since it sounds a touch more dynamic and presents a better sound stage with most of my headphones, its subtle, but for me the Asgard2 is worth the cost difference and its also has smoother sounding pre-amp section with my speaker system.


----------



## HiFiRebel (Oct 19, 2018)

Anyone uses Magni 3 with Argon Mk3 headphones? Will it be not only enough to drive this very power hungry set, but also make sure I get every last drop of goodness out of them?


----------



## Robert Padgett

strooper said:


> I'm new to Schiit. ---snip--
> 
> I may be a sentimental fool.  I may be a dope who doesn't buy the cheapest gear that tests well.  I may be all sorts of stupid (odds are good...).  But having listened for three or more hours a day all this week to my new Schiit Multibit Modi and Magni 3 stack, I am DEFINITELY happy with my purchase.



My only question/suggestion is if you are using USB as your feed, you will benefit from the Wyrd or (Eitr if you prefer SPDIF).  Noise. caused by USB is not really evident --until it is gone. With B-stock, a Wyrd is $79...you will thank me later.


----------



## echoplex

BrotherKathos said:


> I’ve personally run into the issue of the magni 3 being too powerful. Many days I prefer listening to music at soft levels more like you might find in a lounge setting. The magni 3 power rating coupled with its low gain setting does not allow me to do this as I do run into the channel imbalance problem close to or at my desired volume with the mimby and my Audeze lcd2c. This and the treble bias of the magni 3 is what led me to put an order in yesterday for an asgard 2. Its lower power rating and gain setting should allow me to listen at a more comfortable range to my preference as well as taming some of the highs. I’ll either be moving my magni 3 and loki setup to my other desktop with my he-400i or just sell them outright and continue to use the massdrop o2 desktop amp as it works just fine by itself with the hifiman planars.



Alternatively, you could get some higher impedance (e.g., 600 Ohm) phones and that will take care of the excessive volume problem.  The Magni 3 just manages to drive my 600 Ohm AKG K240 DFs, which are real brutes for an amp to handle.  It drives my 600 Ohm Beyerdynamic DT-880s more easily, but there too your not in any danger of making your ears bleed.  On these cans I need to set the Magni volume at between 60-75% (between 1 and 3 o’clock) for decent reference levels.  You should t run into any channel imbalance issues at your desired low volume setting.


----------



## echoplex

ToddAr1 said:


> I received my Magni 3 yesterday and did some early comparisons before letting it run overnight and doing some more listening this morning.  I did some A/Bs with the Jotunheim, using the Yggy as the DAC for both.  Headphones used were Beyer T1s (original), Beyer DT880s (600 Ohm), Focal Elear, and Audeze LCD 2.2.
> 
> At this point, the Jotunheim still sounds better overall.  It sounds slightly cleaner, with slightly clearer treble.  I’ve seen the Magni 3 described as warmer, but it can also be characterized as slightly darker.  I want to emphasize the differences are minor, and it is easy enough to just listen with the Magni 3 and not really miss anything.
> 
> ...





ToddAr1 said:


> I received my Magni 3 yesterday and did some early comparisons before letting it run overnight and doing some more listening this morning.  I did some A/Bs with the Jotunheim, using the Yggy as the DAC for both.  Headphones used were Beyer T1s (original), Beyer DT880s (600 Ohm), Focal Elear, and Audeze LCD 2.2.
> 
> At this point, the Jotunheim still sounds better overall.  It sounds slightly cleaner, with slightly clearer treble.  I’ve seen the Magni 3 described as warmer, but it can also be characterized as slightly darker.  I want to emphasize the differences are minor, and it is easy enough to just listen with the Magni 3 and not really miss anything.
> 
> ...



“The Magni works well with all the headphones listed. I’m a big fan of the Beyer sound, which I know not everyone is, and I must say that when paired with the DT 880, the result is especially good.”
Agreed!  I’ve got the 600 Ohm DT 880s and the cans and Magni 3 complement each other very well.  

I also agree that 600 ohm cans start to challenge the limits of the Magni 3.  That hasn’t been a problem with the DT 880s, but my AKG K240 DFs are also 600 Ohm and noticeably harder to drive.  I has maxed out on particularly quiet recordings of classical music.  

But overall, this little amp is generally wonderful, and ridiculously good for the money.


----------



## Logistics

lantian said:


> 1,8Vrms should be enough. Simply for my headphones the magni 3 is far to weak, only solution is another more powerfull amp...


Enough?  Usually, 2Vrms is a minimum on even consumer-grade products.  McIntosh even has units that do in upwards of 8Vrms.  I understand that your combo doesn't allow your 600-Ohm jobbers to shine, but I just hope you will experiment with a source that has better line-level abilities to see if that improves matters.  I'm curious, too!


----------



## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> I switched my setup around a bit. I'm now using the magni 3 and loki with my SMSL SU-8 and my Hifiman he-400i with the fenestrated sheepskin pads. The magni 3 was a bit too powerful with all my other phones, but is perfect for driving the 400i since they are really inefficient planars. I've got the loki sub bass to 2:00 midrange to 11:30 and the treble to 10:00 and its a great sounding match. My he-400i has been my least favorite headphones next to my KEF M500 for a while since they were a bit down on bass heft and a bit too sparkly up top. The loki fixes all that and stacks nicely with the magni 3 to give a nice aesthetic. Now I've got to come up with a use for my o2 amp after my asgard 2 gets here in a couple of days assuming I like the asgard 2...



Nice to hear the Loki is working out with your HE400i, I guess it's time for me to pull the trigger on that bad boy. I am curious about the Dakoni pads...had them a while? Good?
thx


----------



## BrotherKathos

treecloud said:


> Nice to hear the Loki is working out with your HE400i, I guess it's time for me to pull the trigger on that bad boy. I am curious about the Dakoni pads...had them a while? Good?
> thx



The comfort of the fenestrated pads is superior to the stock pads, especially if you like me find velour to be scratchy at times. The foam on the dekoni is a bit denser and firmer than the stock ones as well. Personally if I could do it again I would get the non perforated lambskin since imo the 400i needs a bass boost. The fenestrated ones are very similar to the stock pads in sound, and originally that is what i thought I wanted. Comfort is a plus for sure though. I got mine from massdrop since they come with the connectors installed on the pads any ready to clip on.


----------



## lantian (Oct 20, 2018)

Logistics said:


> Enough?  Usually, 2Vrms is a minimum on even consumer-grade products.  McIntosh even has units that do in upwards of 8Vrms.  I understand that your combo doesn't allow your 600-Ohm jobbers to shine, but I just hope you will experiment with a source that has better line-level abilities to see if that improves matters.  I'm curious, too!


Judging by the fact that poops own modi 2 has 1,5vrms and modi 2 uber has 2vrms this should be enough. A better amp is cheaper and more usable than another desktop source which, would have to many issues of its own.
But out of curiosity does it even accept higher input voltage without clipping? After all this is not McIntosh, not even close.


----------



## BrotherKathos

DavidA said:


> After using a friends Magni3 for a few weeks I still prefer the sound of my Asgard2 over the Magni3 since it sounds a touch more dynamic and presents a better sound stage with most of my headphones, its subtle, but for me the Asgard2 is worth the cost difference and its also has smoother sounding pre-amp section with my speaker system.


Thanks for the info David! I should have the asgard 2 by weds. Really looking forward to it. The magni 3 is settling nicely with the loki and 400i now. The added power of the magni gives me a bit more headroom to increase the bass on the loki without worrying about clipping the amp, or so I hope. It sounds great now ansd has actually switched around my fav headphones in my collection. I still like my lcd2c the most, but the loki adjustments with 400i now take the place of my hdxx. The bass is just so much better now and the mids and highs are nearly equal in profile while being just a tad cleaner. I don’t see myself getting rid of the magni 3 now.


----------



## ZMG885

BrotherKathos said:


> I’ve personally run into the issue of the magni 3 being too powerful. Many days I prefer listening to music at soft levels more like you might find in a lounge setting. The magni 3 power rating coupled with its low gain setting does not allow me to do this as I do run into the channel imbalance problem close to or at my desired volume with the mimby and my Audeze lcd2c. This and the treble bias of the magni 3 is what led me to put an order in yesterday for an asgard 2. Its lower power rating and gain setting should allow me to listen at a more comfortable range to my preference as well as taming some of the highs. I’ll either be moving my magni 3 and loki setup to my other desktop with my he-400i or just sell them outright and continue to use the massdrop o2 desktop amp as it works just fine by itself with the hifiman planars.



I look forward to your Asgard 2 vs Magni 3 comparison, as I've found the same treble issues with the Magni 3.  For the most part, the Magni 3 covers all bases, and it's only certain tracks with my Grado RS2es that become fatiguing on the Magni 3.  I had a Lyr 2 here for about 3 months and it really didn't help the treble issue with the RS2es, though the increased headroom was nice for my Symphones V8 grado style build.


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## BrotherKathos (Oct 24, 2018)

ZMG885 said:


> I look forward to your Asgard 2 vs Magni 3 comparison, as I've found the same treble issues with the Magni 3.  For the most part, the Magni 3 covers all bases, and it's only certain tracks with my Grado RS2es that become fatiguing on the Magni 3.  I had a Lyr 2 here for about 3 months and it really didn't help the treble issue with the RS2es, though the increased headroom was nice for my Symphones V8 grado style build.



I got the Asgard 2 today. I've only listened to it for a few brief 30 minute intervals since I've been busy today, but I've got a pretty decent first impression compared to the magni 3 already. I listened to it cold for a minute or two and it was a bit on the dark side, I then left it on for about 5 hours and came back to it and it perked up alot. I have to say that although the asgard 2 is twice the price of the magni 3, its performance is easily over twice to three times that of the magni 3 IMO. It beats the magni 3 in every way. Vocals are a little more pronounced and the sound stage is pushed further back with much more space and separation. It actually sounds more like you are inside a "personal audio theater" via your head vs the magni 3's overlapping in your ear sound stage.

Its like the difference between open backs and closed backs in sound stage between the two. There is much more sustain on notes in the asgard 2 and the highs are natural and smooth and not at all fatiguing. The Asgard 2 is already my favorite amp with my Audeze LCD2C, and I'm looking forward to just testing out my other headphones on it. I very well might buy a couple more of these since I like the sound signature that much so far. I'll just have to wait for the THX AAA linear amp to get in to make the final decision on that. Its obviously my own personal taste, but the Asgard 2 has a smoothness that's similar to my class A Krell power amp that I really like.

 It might be a case of liking what I'm used to and that's why I like the Asgard 2 so much, but to me its miles and miles away from the magni 3 in sound quality. The magni 3 is still a good value at $99, but the Asgard really does punch above its price level when compared to class A amps by well established companies like Krell. Pared with my mimby I'm very pleased. I'd recommend the Asgard 2 to anyone who wants a smooth natural sound that lets you hear everything in the recording without shouting and ice picking certain notes into your head. I've not gotten to yet, but I suspect I could listen to this amp for hours. I've got no hiss or hum as I think some suffer from with this amp, but I'm using the Asgard 2 with an Ebtech hum x on the power line so if there was any ground issues that little gadget fixes it. Very satisfied with this schiit.


----------



## bcaulf17

Can anyone recommend a portable amp that is similar to the Magni 3? I tried the Magni 3 with my H6 Gen 2 and compared to coming from my phone (which I describe as sounding good enough but not great) it sounds quite a bit better, at least after a small amount of testing. More full, dynamic and engaging.


----------



## Indrajit

Hi. I currently face an issue of humming that is only audible when the headphone is connected with the Magni 3. The humming is also audible through headphone after disconnecting the dual RCA cable from the amplifier. Humming only happens when headphone is connected with or without the RCA cable. And the humming occurs and stops sporadically. Sometimes there is hum, sometimes there isn’t. I have tried removing all electronic devices away from the amplifier but the humming still occurs. Once the hum occurs, restarting the device also doesn’t help as it goes away only when it has to go away.

I have been through threads on the humming issue on the Magni 3. Has anyone with the same problem found a fix for this?


----------



## audiobomber (Oct 25, 2018)

Indrajit said:


> Hi. I currently face an issue of humming that is only audible when the headphone is connected with the Magni 3. The humming is also audible through headphone after disconnecting the dual RCA cable from the amplifier. Humming only happens when headphone is connected with or without the RCA cable. And the humming occurs and stops sporadically. Sometimes there is hum, sometimes there isn’t. I have tried removing all electronic devices away from the amplifier but the humming still occurs. Once the hum occurs, restarting the device also doesn’t help as it goes away only when it has to go away.
> 
> I have been through threads on the humming issue on the Magni 3. Has anyone with the same problem found a fix for this?


Sounds like a grounding issue. The reason disconnecting the RCA's doesn't matter is because it's coming in through the power cord. Try plugging the amp into the same circuit as the DAC. Or consider running the DAC with a battery (power bank). 

Here is another suggestion from the Schiit website:
> _Got hum? It could be a ground loop. Try a ground loop isolator or EbTech HumX to eliminate it._


----------



## lantian

BrotherKathos said:


> I got the Asgard 2 today. I've only listened to it for a few brief 30 minute intervals since I've been busy today, but I've got a pretty decent first impression compared to the magni 3 already. I listened to it cold for a minute or two and it was a bit on the dark side, I then left it on for about 5 hours and came back to it and it perked up alot. I have to say that although the asgard 2 is twice the price of the magni 3, its performance is easily over twice to three times that of the magni 3 IMO. It beats the magni 3 in every way. Vocals are a little more pronounced and the sound stage is pushed further back with much more space and separation. It actually sounds more like you are inside a "personal audio theater" via your head vs the magni 3's overlapping in your ear sound stage.
> 
> Its like the difference between open backs and closed backs in sound stage between the two. There is much more sustain on notes in the asgard 2 and the highs are natural and smooth and not at all fatiguing. The Asgard 2 is already my favorite amp with my Audeze LCD2C, and I'm looking forward to just testing out my other headphones on it. I very well might buy a couple more of these since I like the sound signature that much so far. I'll just have to wait for the THX AAA linear amp to get in to make the final decision on that. Its obviously my own personal taste, but the Asgard 2 has a smoothness that's similar to my class A Krell power amp that I really like.
> 
> It might be a case of liking what I'm used to and that's why I like the Asgard 2 so much, but to me its miles and miles away from the magni 3 in sound quality. The magni 3 is still a good value at $99, but the Asgard really does punch above its price level when compared to class A amps by well established companies like Krell. Pared with my mimby I'm very pleased. I'd recommend the Asgard 2 to anyone who wants a smooth natural sound that lets you hear everything in the recording without shouting and ice picking certain notes into your head. I've not gotten to yet, but I suspect I could listen to this amp for hours. I've got no hiss or hum as I think some suffer from with this amp, but I'm using the Asgard 2 with an Ebtech hum x on the power line so if there was any ground issues that little gadget fixes it. Very satisfied with this schiit.



If only it had 4 times as much power at 600ohm, as it is it is even weaker for 600ohm cans than magni 3.


----------



## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> The comfort of the fenestrated pads is superior to the stock pads, especially if you like me find velour to be scratchy at times. The foam on the dekoni is a bit denser and firmer than the stock ones as well. Personally if I could do it again I would get the non perforated lambskin since imo the 400i needs a bass boost. The fenestrated ones are very similar to the stock pads in sound, and originally that is what i thought I wanted. Comfort is a plus for sure though. I got mine from massdrop since they come with the connectors installed on the pads any ready to clip on.



Took your advice and got the non perf lambskin Dakoni's. I am very impressed with these pads, physical quality, plus they do seem to add a bit more aural weight. Easiest pads to install on 400S too. Keeper, thanks.


----------



## Rensek

I know it's been talked about here for awhile.

+1ing that your sources output strength is very important to the power the magni 3 can push into your cans.

I like that the modi 3 is now 2.0 vrms across the board. With modi 3 the volume level stays the same on my magni 3, regardless of whether I'm using usb or optical/toslink.

This doesn't appear to be the case with Modi Multibit. The USB output on my mimby causes much lower volume level to be pushed through the Magni 3, as compared to toslink/optical use.


----------



## lantian

In my case volume is not the issue, power is.


----------



## BrotherKathos

lantian said:


> If only it had 4 times as much power at 600ohm, as it is it is even weaker for 600ohm cans than magni 3.



I'm not really sure if your issue would apply to me. I don't really need much power from amps since I generally listen at lower volumes. I found myself last night listening to my lcd2c on low gain at 8:30 or so on the asgard dial which is barely above mute and liked it alot. The only headphones I have that might be similar to your hard to drive ones are the he400i which have a very low 93db sensitivity even though they are low ohm. With those on the magni 3 in low gain I also don't get above 11:00 under even loud(for me) listening sessions. I find I can hear much more of musical recordings by listening to music at lower volumes and letting my ears adjust to it vs cranking the volume up and having my ears attenuate the sound due to potential damaging levels. Even 80db over a few hours is not great for your ears. I probably listen at about 60db on average, and at max 75db if i've really wanting to rock out. Its like how blind people can hear more than people who can see. Our ears are more sensitive than we might realize, so there is no need to blow them out with ridiculously powerful amps. The only reason I ever buy more powerful amps is that they typically in home theater at least can play cleaner at low volumes vs less powerful amps. I never buy more powerful amps just to get louder volumes.


----------



## BrotherKathos

treecloud said:


> Took your advice and got the non perf lambskin Dakoni's. I am very impressed with these pads, physical quality, plus they do seem to add a bit more aural weight. Easiest pads to install on 400S too. Keeper, thanks.


Glad you like them treecloud! I'm on the honeymoon with the asgard 2 right now so the magni 3/loki/400i rig is getting no love.


----------



## DavidA

lantian said:


> In my case volume is not the issue, power is.


I assume you are considering that the HD540 is 600ohms, I'd suggest a OTL amp that is better designed for higher impedance headphones like the HD540 since while its a power issue for SS amps since many like the Asgard2 put out more power at lower impedance many OTL amps have a much higher power output at higher impedances.  A friend that has a HD540 Ref 600ohm loves them with a BH Crack which doesn't put out much even at 600ohms but its a much better pairing than her AudioGD Master 9 (9W at 40ohms, 630mW at 600ohms) and my Lyr2 to her and I'd have to agree the few times that I've tried her HD540 on her system.



BrotherKathos said:


> Glad you like them treecloud! I'm on the honeymoon with the asgard 2 right now so the magni 3/loki/400i rig is getting no love.


How long before the "honeymoon" ends, LOL, just kidding.  I've tried my HE400i with the Dekoni lambskin and to me it was better in some ways (better bass-cleaner and more quantity) but it also made the mids/upper mids a bit too forward for me.


----------



## treecloud

DavidA said:


> I've tried my HE400i with the Dekoni lambskin and to me it was better in some ways (better bass-cleaner and more quantity) but it also made the mids/upper mids a bit too forward for me.



I did hear something I didn't expect, greater overall clarity, and subtle details I hadn't noticed in familiar tracks. That could certainly be the result of more forward mids and highs. And I don't like an overly bright balance either, but my first impression was the 400S never sounded so good. Will be interesting in context of your comment to listen further.


----------



## DavidA

treecloud said:


> I did hear something I didn't expect, greater overall clarity, and subtle details I hadn't noticed in familiar tracks. That could certainly be the result of more forward mids and highs. And I don't like an overly bright balance either, but my first impression was the 400S never sounded so good. Will be interesting in context of your comment to listen further.


Note that we are talking about 2 different headphones which do sound a bit different to start with so I'd wouldn't put much weight on my comments in relation to your HE400S and even those with newer HE400i since mine is an older SMC / back plate version which also sounds different from the newer 2.5/3.5mm non back plate versions.
I think I'm going to borrow my friends Magni3 again just to see if pairing it with different DACs has more of an effect on how the Magni3 pairs with various headphones since I only used my Bimby in the pass when I borrowed it and it seems that some of the comments are different from my impressions.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Oct 26, 2018)

[QUOTE="DavidA, post: 14560636, member: 412652"


How long before the "honeymoon" ends, LOL, just kidding.  I've tried my HE400i with the Dekoni lambskin and to me it was better in some ways (better bass-cleaner and more quantity) but it also made the mids/upper mids a bit too forward for me.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure on the honeymoon, maybe until I get the THX AAA Linear Amp since its crazy powerful in balanced while having ultra low distortion and cross-talk? At least on paper it matches my LCD2C much better than the Asgard 2.  Its funny that you found the mids too forward with the Dekoni pads. The mid adjustment is the only one I left alone on my magni 3/loki/400i setup. The bass was put to 2:00, midbass to 1:30. Mids left alone, and Treble cranked down to 10:30-11:00. I've got the fenestrated ones though so are different than the normal lambskin plus my 400i is a different batch to yours as well. The fenestrated just gives a hint of more bass while they tame the highs slightly. Besides that pretty much stock sounding imo.


----------



## ZMG885

BrotherKathos said:


> I got the Asgard 2 today. I've only listened to it for a few brief 30 minute intervals since I've been busy today, but I've got a pretty decent first impression compared to the magni 3 already. I listened to it cold for a minute or two and it was a bit on the dark side, I then left it on for about 5 hours and came back to it and it perked up alot. I have to say that although the asgard 2 is twice the price of the magni 3, its performance is easily over twice to three times that of the magni 3 IMO. It beats the magni 3 in every way. Vocals are a little more pronounced and the sound stage is pushed further back with much more space and separation. It actually sounds more like you are inside a "personal audio theater" via your head vs the magni 3's overlapping in your ear sound stage.
> 
> Its like the difference between open backs and closed backs in sound stage between the two. There is much more sustain on notes in the asgard 2 and the highs are natural and smooth and not at all fatiguing. The Asgard 2 is already my favorite amp with my Audeze LCD2C, and I'm looking forward to just testing out my other headphones on it. I very well might buy a couple more of these since I like the sound signature that much so far. I'll just have to wait for the THX AAA linear amp to get in to make the final decision on that. Its obviously my own personal taste, but the Asgard 2 has a smoothness that's similar to my class A Krell power amp that I really like.
> 
> It might be a case of liking what I'm used to and that's why I like the Asgard 2 so much, but to me its miles and miles away from the magni 3 in sound quality. The magni 3 is still a good value at $99, but the Asgard really does punch above its price level when compared to class A amps by well established companies like Krell. Pared with my mimby I'm very pleased. I'd recommend the Asgard 2 to anyone who wants a smooth natural sound that lets you hear everything in the recording without shouting and ice picking certain notes into your head. I've not gotten to yet, but I suspect I could listen to this amp for hours. I've got no hiss or hum as I think some suffer from with this amp, but I'm using the Asgard 2 with an Ebtech hum x on the power line so if there was any ground issues that little gadget fixes it. Very satisfied with this schiit.



Very nice comparison.  Thanks.  I’m definitely putting the Asgard 2 on my short list to try.  I had the Lyr 2 next to the Magni 3, but the Lyr wasn’t any smoother to my ears, and I’m not interested in tube rolling...  Also, I’m learning my tastes are changing, and am looking for planar cans vs the dynamics I’ve been listening to exclusively.


----------



## Indrajit

audiobomber said:


> Sounds like a grounding issue. The reason disconnecting the RCA's doesn't matter is because it's coming in through the power cord. Try plugging the amp into the same circuit as the DAC. Or consider running the DAC with a battery (power bank).
> 
> Here is another suggestion from the Schiit website:
> > _Got hum? It could be a ground loop. Try a ground loop isolator or EbTech HumX to eliminate it._




I use a Fiio X5iii as a dap which is self powered. I brought an electrician and I was told that the power adaptor has only two pins and thus that could prevent grounding. So I am searching for a new 3 pin power adaptor for Magni 3. If anyone here represents Schiit Audio then please look into this post and help me out with this if it's possible.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Oct 26, 2018)

DavidA said:


> Very nice comparison.  Thanks.  I’m definitely putting the Asgard 2 on my short list to try.  I had the Lyr 2 next to the Magni 3, but the Lyr wasn’t any smoother to my ears, and I’m not interested in tube rolling...  Also, I’m learning my tastes are changing, and am looking for planar cans vs the dynamics I’ve been listening to exclusively.



I just got through testing my HD6XX vs both my planars on the Asgard 2. Its like the asgard 2 was made for planars, at least mine anyway. The HD6XX was my least favorite headphone on the asgard 2, with the lcd2c and 400i taking 1st and 2nd place. The funny thing is that the magni 3 had almost completely opposite results for me. The HD6XX was my favorite headphone with the magni 3, followed by the lcd2c and the 400i last.


----------



## DavidA

ZMG885 said:


> Very nice comparison.  Thanks.  I’m definitely putting the Asgard 2 on my short list to try.  I had the Lyr 2 next to the Magni 3, but the Lyr wasn’t any smoother to my ears, and I’m not interested in tube rolling...  Also, I’m learning my tastes are changing, and am looking for planar cans vs the dynamics I’ve been listening to exclusively.


The Lyr2 with stock tubes was a bit of a disappointment to me and a few friends who heard it with the stock tubes, a bit bright and a bit harsh in the treble with some tracks but since you are not interested in rolling tubes then the Asgard2 makes more sense but if you are ever considering the HE560 the Lyr2 with some Telefunken CCa tubes is one of my favorite listening combos.


----------



## BrotherKathos

DavidA said:


> The Lyr2 with stock tubes was a bit of a disappointment to me and a few friends who heard it with the stock tubes, a bit bright and a bit harsh in the treble with some tracks but since you are not interested in rolling tubes then the Asgard2 makes more sense but if you are ever considering the HE560 the Lyr2 with some Telefunken CCa tubes is one of my favorite listening combos.


I somehow quoted you as someone else in my earlier post? Weird... just noticed it...


----------



## audiobomber

Indrajit said:


> I use a Fiio X5iii as a dap which is self powered. I brought an electrician and I was told that the power adaptor has only two pins and thus that could prevent grounding. So I am searching for a new 3 pin power adaptor for Magni 3. If anyone here represents Schiit Audio then please look into this post and help me out with this if it's possible.


Is there anything else is in the system besides the Fiio and Magni?


----------



## Indrajit

audiobomber said:


> Is there anything else is in the system besides the Fiio and Magni?


No just the headphone


----------



## tafens

Indrajit said:


> Hi. I currently face an issue of humming that is only audible when the headphone is connected with the Magni 3. The humming is also audible through headphone after disconnecting the dual RCA cable from the amplifier. Humming only happens when headphone is connected with or without the RCA cable. And the humming occurs and stops sporadically. Sometimes there is hum, sometimes there isn’t. I have tried removing all electronic devices away from the amplifier but the humming still occurs. Once the hum occurs, restarting the device also doesn’t help as it goes away only when it has to go away.
> 
> I have been through threads on the humming issue on the Magni 3. Has anyone with the same problem found a fix for this?



Hum that comes and goes by itself sounds like there is another electrical appliance that periodically starts and stops, and when it’s running there’s hum. First thought is check if the refrigerator or freezer compressor is running when there is hum.


----------



## Indrajit

tafens said:


> Hum that comes and goes by itself sounds like there is another electrical appliance that periodically starts and stops, and when it’s running there’s hum. First thought is check if the refrigerator or freezer compressor is running when there is hum.



Refrigerator is running all the time, the hum only happens on its own times. Hum does not happen proportional to the refrigerators in my house


----------



## treecloud

Indrajit said:


> Refrigerator is running all the time, the hum only happens on its own times. Hum does not happen proportional to the refrigerators in my house



Fridge are plugged in all the time, but compressor kicks in and out as interior temp fluctuates. It wouldn't be the first time the fridge was the source of intermittent hum.


----------



## Indrajit

treecloud said:


> Fridge are plugged in all the time, but compressor kicks in and out as interior temp fluctuates. It wouldn't be the first time the fridge was the source of intermittent hum.


 Thanks for responding 
So are there any solutions to this or is it normal for Magni 3 to hum intermittently. It keeps coming to me that the unit might be a defective one and as other battery powered amps like the Fiio A5 won't have this issue at all.


----------



## ZMG885

DavidA said:


> The Lyr2 with stock tubes was a bit of a disappointment to me and a few friends who heard it with the stock tubes, a bit bright and a bit harsh in the treble with some tracks but since you are not interested in rolling tubes then the Asgard2 makes more sense but if you are ever considering the HE560 the Lyr2 with some Telefunken CCa tubes is one of my favorite listening combos.



The Lyr 2 had upgraded tubes, but with the headphones I'm using (Grade RS2e and Magnum V8 build) there just wasn't enough of a dramatic improvement over the Magni 3 (to my ears and at the lowish volume I'm accustomed to listening).   However, my DT1770s came alive with the Lyr 2, but I decided to sell them, as even with the Lyr 2, they were not better sounding than my V8 build.  So for now, I let go of the Lyr 2.

That said, when I find some planar cans I like, I wouldn't hesitate to revisit the Lyr 2 if that was an optimal pairing.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Oct 29, 2018)

ZMG885 said:


> The Lyr 2 had upgraded tubes, but with the headphones I'm using (Grade RS2e and Magnum V8 build) there just wasn't enough of a dramatic improvement over the Magni 3 (to my ears and at the lowish volume I'm accustomed to listening).   However, my DT1770s came alive with the Lyr 2, but I decided to sell them, as even with the Lyr 2, they were not better sounding than my V8 build.  So for now, I let go of the Lyr 2.
> 
> That said, when I find some planar cans I like, I wouldn't hesitate to revisit the Lyr 2 if that was an optimal pairing.



If you end up getting the Asgard 2. I wholeheartedly recommend the Audeze LCD2C for planars to pair with it. I love that pairing more than anything else I own by far now after listening for a couple of days. I'm not sure how much of a difference my dac which is a mimby  is making. Or my cables that are just decent quality cheap like the audioquest peal usb and 6 inch mogami 2964 rca. This little setup blows everything else I have away. I can get sort of close to it by using the SMSL SU-8 and HD6XX with the magni 3 and loki and EQing, but its just missing something compared to the Asgard lcd2c setup. Magni 3 with hdxx setup is just not as natural sounding or as spacious even if I can get the frequency response sort of in line with the loki. The Asgard 2 with LCD2C and mimby for me is just magical. I might switch the mimby out with my Topping D50 to see how much of an effect the dac has, Especially since the Topping blows the mimby out of the water in measurements, but I'm not really expecting to be much of a difference really. I've found it really hard to tell the difference between dacs in the past.

Edit....  I tested the D50 in the chain, and oddly its not as good in that pairing. I noticed there was a bit more treble clarity, but the depth and spaciousness plus the sense of envelopment that the mimby had was gone. Like eating a good meal, but there is just that one ingredient missing that makes it special. I'm actually very surprised by this. It might be because I've been hooked on type O negative recently and have been listening more to the same songs thus making it easier to discern. Who knows. I was expecting the D50 to sound better honestly, but it doesn't...


----------



## treecloud

Indrajit said:


> Thanks for responding
> So are there any solutions to this or is it normal for Magni 3 to hum intermittently. It keeps coming to me that the unit might be a defective one and as other battery powered amps like the Fiio A5 won't have this issue at all.



I think I would first check to see if the fridge compressor cycle is synced to the hum, if it is you know the likely problem. Then I would contact Schiit customer support and ask if they can suggest a solution.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Indrajit said:


> I use a Fiio X5iii as a dap which is self powered. I brought an electrician and I was told that the power adaptor has only two pins and thus that could prevent grounding. So I am searching for a new 3 pin power adaptor for Magni 3. If anyone here represents Schiit Audio then please look into this post and help me out with this if it's possible.



If it is a ground issue then the Ebtech Hum X will fix it. I've got two of them , one that I needed for my home theather since my projector was on a different line and causing a hum through the speakers. Hum x fixed it perfectly. If its line noise you could try out the IFI AC ipurifier. Hope this helps and you get it fixed. I know from experience how frustrating hums and noise are when you are trying for good audio.

https://ifi-audio.com/products/ac-purifier/


----------



## dwqdd

good


----------



## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> If you end up getting the Asgard 2 I wholeheartedly recommend the Audeze LCD2C for planars to pair with it. I love that pairing more than anything else I own by far now after listening for a couple of days...This little setup blows everything else I have away. The Asgard 2 with LCD2C and mimby for me is just magical.



You've got my attention! I want this too 

Now I'm wondering how your HE400i are holding up in this rig compared to the LCD2C?


----------



## Keno18

Indrajit said:


> Hi. I currently face an issue of humming that is only audible when the headphone is connected with the Magni 3. The humming is also audible through headphone after disconnecting the dual RCA cable from the amplifier. Humming only happens when headphone is connected with or without the RCA cable. And the humming occurs and stops sporadically. Sometimes there is hum, sometimes there isn’t. I have tried removing all electronic devices away from the amplifier but the humming still occurs. Once the hum occurs, restarting the device also doesn’t help as it goes away only when it has to go away.
> 
> I have been through threads on the humming issue on the Magni 3. Has anyone with the same problem found a fix for this?


I ran into that problem only mine was caused by air conditioning. I was able to remove most of it by plugging the Magni into a Furman M-8x2 power line conditioner. Runs about  $51 on Amazon. The only time it doesn't work is if I plug the unit directly into the same line as the air conditioner. If it  doesn't solve your problem just return it.


----------



## BrotherKathos

treecloud said:


> You've got my attention! I want this too
> 
> Now I'm wondering how your HE400i are holding up in this rig compared to the LCD2C?



I prefer the LCD2C. The he-400i is still very very good, better than all my other headphones with the Asgard 2, but the Audeze takes the top spot for me. The bass is just much better on the Audeze and I prefer the treble characteristics and midrange of the LCD2C as well. But the LCD2C is not 4 times as good even though it costs that much more. You could probably get close with the loki and save lots of money. I just changed the rca cables from the mogami 2964 to the mogami 2549 since they are geared more towards audio vs the 2964 being a 75 ohm audio/video interconnect. Not really any difference that jumps out at me there. Went ahead though since I'm thinking of getting an Eitr and the 2964 should work well with it for the coax. 

Just got a shipment update from Massdrop about the THX AAA shipping next week! Now I'm going to have to decide whether or not to keep the magni 3 here or move it or another amp to a different location. I've got the magni 3 hooked to the HD6XX and loki right now. I like it with the bass at 2:00, mid-bass at 1:00, midrange flat, and the treble at 11:00. You can tell I'm not a big fan of too much treble as the hd6xx is supposedly warm to begin with. I'm not sure if its that I can perceive it better than most, but I've tried increasing and decreasing treble and even at its decreased levels I don't loose any overall detail, just that its prominence it pushed back which is what I prefer. Makes the listening experience more enjoyable for me.


----------



## treecloud

BrotherKathos said:


> I prefer the LCD2C. The he-400i is still very very good, better than all my other headphones with the Asgard 2, but the Audeze takes the top spot for me. The bass is just much better on the Audeze and I prefer the treble characteristics and midrange of the LCD2C as well. But the LCD2C is not 4 times as good even though it costs that much more. You could probably get close with the loki and save lots of money. I just changed the rca cables from the mogami 2964 to the mogami 2549 since they are geared more towards audio vs the 2964 being a 75 ohm audio/video interconnect. Not really any difference that jumps out at me there. Went ahead though since I'm thinking of getting an Eitr and the 2964 should work well with it for the coax.



We have similar tone balance preferences. You touched on something else I was wondering about...if you think a Loki in the Mimby Asgard 2 LCD2C chain would take it a notch higher...

Thanks for your comments.


----------



## JamminVMI

Indrajit said:


> Thanks for responding
> So are there any solutions to this or is it normal for Magni 3 to hum intermittently. It keeps coming to me that the unit might be a defective one and as other battery powered amps like the Fiio A5 won't have this issue at all.


If it’s intermittent, it’s likely, as treecloud said, to be an external source of interference... phone/cell tower, cable, reefer compressor, etc. I’d first try cable, then I think I’d move it temporarily to another location... since you said happens with no source, that should be easy. And don’t forget to email the folks at Schiit. They’ll help too. Good luck!


----------



## shampoosuicide (Nov 2, 2018)

I just acquired Magni 3 and am having issues with getting enough volume out of it. On low gain with the TH-X00 (25 ohm), I have to turn the volume knob beyond 3 o'clock to get to a loud enough listening level (85dB measured).

My setup is as follows: MacBook > Topping D30 > Magni 3.

The Topping D30 outputs 2V, which I understand should be ample for the Magni. I have also tried using a Modi 1 as the DAC with the same issue.

All the volume sliders on my Mac (Spotify, Sound, Audio MIDI) are set to maximum.

Any ideas?


----------



## audiobomber

shampoosuicide said:


> I just acquired Magni 3 and am having issues with getting enough volume out of it. On low gain with the TH-X00 (25 ohm), I have to turn the volume know beyond 3 o'clock to get to a loud enough listening level (85dB measured).
> 
> My setup is as follows: MacBook > Topping D30 > Magni 3.
> 
> ...


Firstly, there's no issue with running the volume beyond 3:00 o'clock. If this bothers you for some reason, just use high gain.


----------



## Logistics

audiobomber said:


> Firstly, there's no issue with running the volume beyond 3:00 o'clock. If this bothers you for some reason, just use high gain.



Basically, this.  However, I'm curious about your source being the problem (yes, your mac) because I have 24-Ohm headphones with almost twice the power-handling as your headphones, and I use low gain, and rarely get the knob over 1/3.  However, I use a Delta 410 sound card, and output over coax to the Modi.  I seem to recall some users saying that they had trouble getting adequate volume levels when running their DAC over USB.  Are you running the Topping DAC over USB?


----------



## DavidA

shampoosuicide said:


> I just acquired Magni 3 and am having issues with getting enough volume out of it. On low gain with the TH-X00 (25 ohm), I have to turn the volume knob beyond 3 o'clock to get to a loud enough listening level (85dB measured).
> 
> My setup is as follows: MacBook > Topping D30 > Magni 3.
> 
> ...


A while back there was someone that noted that having the volume of the source at full volume will trigger something in the Magni3 that will attenuate the signal since it over driving the input stage IIRC.


----------



## shampoosuicide (Nov 3, 2018)

Thanks for the replies. I have tried the following solutions with the same results:

1) Switching my DAC from USB to optical input
2) Running the Magni straight from my MacBook's headphone out
3) Running the Magni straight from my iPhone's headphone out
4) Adjusting the source volume
5) Using a different set of RCA cables

To be sure, I have an Elemental Watson that also outputs 2W/pc at 32 ohms and I only need to turn the volume knob to 10 o'clock to achieve the same volume as I do on the Magni at 3 o'clock.

Searching through the thread it appears that there are a couple of other people experiencing the same issue, which is a bit of a shame as the Magni does sound fantastic. In any case, I'm in touch with Schiit support and will see what they recommend.


----------



## Keno18 (Nov 3, 2018)

Added a FX Audio Tube-01 tube buffer/preamp from Amazon ahead of my Magni 3. Wasn't expecting that much but was surprised how much tube sound was added. Compares favorably to the Vali 2 with a RCA 12au7a clear top. Always thought the sound of the Magni was a little too laid back compared to the Vali/clear top combo. Now that isn't the case. Used the recommended Riverstone Audio GE JAN 5654W tubes instead of stock. Very inexpensive way to go tube.


----------



## kingk6673

Great to hear that you had the same experience I did with adding a tube buffer in your music chain.  I found the same as you with the addition of a tub buffer I was able to keep the strengths of the Magni 3 and dial in some of the benefits of a tube based system at the same time.


----------



## Keno18 (Nov 3, 2018)

kingk6673 said:


> Great to hear that you had the same experience I did with adding a tube buffer in your music chain.  I found the same as you with the addition of a tub buffer I was able to keep the strengths of the Magni 3 and dial in some of the benefits of a tube based system at the same time.


I'm glad to hear that I wasn't hearing things. Thank you for the validation. I agree about how the two complement each other. Frankly, I find myself listening to the Magni exclusively now.


----------



## madpistol (Nov 7, 2018)

Got some HiFiMan HE400i cans a couple of months back, and all I can say is I'm blown away at how much of a difference the Magni 3 makes. The sound signature is so neutral and detailed... it's jaw dropping. I thought the Sennheiser HD 598's were a good set of headphones... they sound positively muddy compared to the HE400i's.

Was just listening to John Newman's "Love Me Again", and during the bridge, I noticed something I had NEVER heard before on any other headphone: Sub-Bass. It's subtle, but it's ridiculously clear, and it sounds amazing.

Currently have it set to low-gain with the pot at around 2 o'clock. Simply nirvana.


----------



## ngs428

madpistol said:


> Got some HiFiMan HE400i cans a couple of months back, and all I can say is I'm blown away at how much of a difference the Magni 3 makes. The sound signature is so neutral and detailed... it's jaw dropping. I thought the Sennheiser HD 598's were a good set of headphones... they sound positively muddy compared to the HE400i's.
> 
> Was just listening to John Newman's "Love Me Again", and during the bridge, I noticed something I had NEVER heard before on any other headphone: Sub-Bass. It's subtle, but it's ridiculously clear, and it sounds amazing.
> 
> Currently have it set to low-gain with the pot at around 2 o'clock. Simply nirvana.



I am looking to get the magni / modi 3 stack around Christmas for my HE4XX.  Now I am a bit more excited!


----------



## DavidA

madpistol said:


> Got some HiFiMan HE400i cans a couple of months back, and all I can say is I'm blown away at how much of a difference the Magni 3 makes. The sound signature is so neutral and detailed... it's jaw dropping. I thought the Sennheiser HD 598's were a good set of headphones... they sound positively muddy compared to the HE400i's.
> 
> Was just listening to John Newman's "Love Me Again", and during the bridge, I noticed something I had NEVER heard before on any other headphone: Sub-Bass. It's subtle, but it's ridiculously clear, and it sounds amazing.
> 
> Currently have it set to low-gain with the pot at around 2 o'clock. Simply nirvana.


What amp/DAC were you using previous to the Magni3 to drive the HE400i?  I never cared for the sound of the HD598 and gave them away a while back to a friend who loves them with her MBP.  To they were  a bit thin sounding and lacked any sub-bass but I never though they were muddy, even compared to my HE400i.


----------



## Lasakro

Wonderful thread from newbe head-fi listener here. Earlier today I uploaded to Thingiverse this Schiit Mini Stack mount for those with a 3D printer. Very solid and really helps them from not moving around. Enjoy.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3207569


----------



## JamminVMI

madpistol said:


> Got some HiFiMan HE400i cans a couple of months back, and all I can say is I'm blown away at how much of a difference the Magni 3 makes. The sound signature is so neutral and detailed... it's jaw dropping. I thought the Sennheiser HD 598's were a good set of headphones... they sound positively muddy compared to the HE400i's.
> 
> Was just listening to John Newman's "Love Me Again", and during the bridge, I noticed something I had NEVER heard before on any other headphone: Sub-Bass. It's subtle, but it's ridiculously clear, and it sounds amazing.
> 
> Currently have it set to low-gain with the pot at around 2 o'clock. Simply nirvana.


At my desk I’m running the HE-4xx cans via Mimby/Magni 3 - and yeah, they are pretty sublime. I will say this, though... Th HD598s shine with Lyr 3, and they’re the most comfy set of cans I’ve ever worn...


----------



## bboris77

Hi everyone. I just noticed a little quirk about my Magni 3 and was wondering if this is something that anyone else is experiencing. Basically, when turning down the volume to zero, the left channel cuts out earlier than the right channel, but only between 7 and 7:30 o'clock.  Between 7:30 and 8, there is channel imbalance. Above 8 o'clock both channels can be heard and there is no imbalance.
Now, I know that it is perfectly normal to have channel imbalance at very low volumes, but I am just wondering if anyone has experienced one of the channels going down to zero volume while the other one is still audible at extremely low volumes. It is really an academic question, but I am just curious.


----------



## Keno18

bboris77 said:


> Hi everyone. I just noticed a little quirk about my Magni 3 and was wondering if this is something that anyone else is experiencing. Basically, when turning down the volume to zero, the left channel cuts out earlier than the right channel, but only between 7 and 7:30 o'clock.  Between 7:30 and 8, there is channel imbalance. Above 8 o'clock both channels can be heard and there is no imbalance.
> Now, I know that it is perfectly normal to have channel imbalance at very low volumes, but I am just wondering if anyone has experienced one of the channels going down to zero volume while the other one is still audible at extremely low volumes. It is really an academic question, but I am just curious.


Yes, I noticed it but with HD 6xxs, it was never an issue.


----------



## bboris77

Keno18 said:


> Yes, I noticed it but with HD 6xxs, it was never an issue.


Thank you! 

It definitely is not an issue since I would never listen to any of my headphones that low. Just wanted to make sure that it is "normal" for this amp.


----------



## Keno18

bboris77 said:


> Thank you!
> 
> It definitely is not an issue since I would never listen to any of my headphones that low. Just wanted to make sure that it is "normal" for this amp.


If you noticed that detail this is the right hobby for you. Wait till you get into tubes.


----------



## bboris77

Keno18 said:


> If you noticed that detail this is the right hobby for you. Wait till you get into tubes.


Lol. I’m coming off of tubes. I used to have quite a collection then I sold my Valhalla 2 and Bottlehead Crack. I’m just looking for transparency and simplicity now. I am only relying on headphones to “colour” my sound now.


----------



## Keno18

bboris77 said:


> Lol. I’m coming off of tubes. I used to have quite a collection then I sold my Valhalla 2 and Bottlehead Crack. I’m just looking for transparency and simplicity now. I am only relying on headphones to “colour” my sound now.


I'm just getting started.  I have a Vali 2 and a tube buffer for the Magni. At least now I know I have hope.


----------



## BrotherKathos

bboris77 said:


> Lol. I’m coming off of tubes. I used to have quite a collection then I sold my Valhalla 2 and Bottlehead Crack. I’m just looking for transparency and simplicity now. I am only relying on headphones to “colour” my sound now.



If you want power and transparency with a great price, look no further than the THX AAA 789 from massdrop. Its an amazing amp. The cleanest and smoothest amp I've ever heard. Wire with gain is the best description I can give it. Seems to be right up your alley now.


----------



## bboris77

BrotherKathos said:


> If you want power and transparency with a great price, look no further than the THX AAA 789 from massdrop. Its an amazing amp. The cleanest and smoothest amp I've ever heard. Wire with gain is the best description I can give it. Seems to be right up your alley now.


That sounds very interesting. It does not seem to be available now. I really like Magni 3's sound quality though. Wonder what specific improvement the THX AAA 789 would bring to the table. Have you listened to it?


----------



## BrotherKathos (Nov 12, 2018)

bboris77 said:


> That sounds very interesting. It does not seem to be available now. I really like Magni 3's sound quality though. Wonder what specific improvement the THX AAA 789 would bring to the table. Have you listened to it?


I have the magni 3 and the THX. The biggest differences I find between the two of them is the way treble is produced as well as the speed and impact of notes. The magni 3 is often described as a transparent amp, but i've found it to be quite harsh especially as you get to louder volumes. The THX somehow manages to be even more "transparent" with a much blacker background while maintaining a smoothness to it that the magni 3 just can't compete with. THe volume pot of the thx is in another league all-together as well. I've already had one pot replaced under warranty on the magni 3 and while the new one does not make the scratchy noise as much, its still there when you adjust volume while music is playing. Not very refined. The magni 3 remains a steal at $99 though for the sheer amount of total performance you get for the price even with its quirks. With the loki added to it to tame the characteristics I don't like its been a great all rounder rig that works with all my headphones.

The THX does not become fatiguing to me at all. Its actually the first amp that has made me like treble. This is even the case when used in SE in which the magni 3 is actually more powerful. Driven to the same perceived volume has the THX remaining smooth and loud where the magni 3 becomes shrill imo. Balanced is where the THX really shines as far as sheer output goes and delivers double the output of the magni 3. Other things like sound stage are less noticeable for me between the 2 with the THX maybe having a slight edge, but I suspect its just my source that's holding both back(Topping D50 for tests). Imaging is much better though on the THX, I guess due to the much superior cross talk specs? All in all the THX is just in another league compared to the magni 3, but at $350 its quite a bit more money. I've not had a chance to listen to the THX with my mimby and Audeze LCD2C yet, but I've listened to the LCD2C with the thx and d50 and they were nice, especially given the sometimes shouty aspect of those Audeze cans in certain treble regions. I hope this helps you, I'm sure I'm leaving something out, but these are the main aspects that jump out at me between the 2.


Hopefully the THX will be dropping again soon for those interested.


----------



## riffrafff

bboris77 said:


> Hi everyone. I just noticed a little quirk about my Magni 3 and was wondering if this is something that anyone else is experiencing. Basically, when turning down the volume to zero, the left channel cuts out earlier than the right channel, but only between 7 and 7:30 o'clock.  Between 7:30 and 8, there is channel imbalance. Above 8 o'clock both channels can be heard and there is no imbalance.
> Now, I know that it is perfectly normal to have channel imbalance at very low volumes, but I am just wondering if anyone has experienced one of the channels going down to zero volume while the other one is still audible at extremely low volumes. It is really an academic question, but I am just curious.



That's fairly typical of the low range of audio taper pots, especially most inexpensive ones (even Alps).  That's also why Schiit products like the Saga and Freya use relay-stepped attenuators, to get around that typical channel-imbalance.


----------



## BrotherKathos

bboris77 said:


> That sounds very interesting. It does not seem to be available now. I really like Magni 3's sound quality though. Wonder what specific improvement the THX AAA 789 would bring to the table. Have you listened to it?



They are available now, but only for less than 24 hours. I've been listening to my Hifiman he-400i on the thx with the balanced out and all I can say is wow. Blows magni 3 out of the water. I never thought power could make this much of a difference, but it seems the 400i really does need alot to shine. I'm not listening to them at a higher volume, but everything has been given more weight and texture. The treble is even smoother now with loud crashes in classical pieces not being as uncomfortable. Imaging is even better and sound stage is further improved as well with balanced. Highly recommend this amp.


----------



## bboris77

I have another question for experts here regarding low vs high gain. I know that this topic has been discussed extensively in general with no consensus. With my HD600, I can use either low gain or high gain setting to get acceptable volumes. With low gain, the volume pot is generally between 2 and 5 o'clock (all the way up), while it is anywhere between 9 and 12 o'clock using the high gain setting. I know a lot of people think that high gain generally produces better sound. Are there any technical explanations for this? Would the overall distortion increase if one was to volume match the signal using high gain vs low gain?

There is the theory that turning the volume pot all the way up in low gain mode increases distortion more than leaving it in 12 o'clock position using high gain mode. Is this just a myth?

Any input will be appreciated.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I think high/low gain doesn't matter as much on the HD 600s due to the higher impedance/lower efficiency.  The main thing for me regarding high/low gain is that the noise floor gets pushed higher on high gain(obviously), which is quite annoying since that noise floor comes through on more efficient headphones.

When it comes to sound, just do some listening tests and see what you prefer.  A lot of people prefer a distorted sound(e.g. tubes) so whether or not setting the pot to 5 o'clock on low gain causes distortion is a small point in the grand scheme of things.  If you can't tell a difference, I'd probably just leave it in low gain for more range of volume control.


----------



## Keno18

bboris77 said:


> I have another question for experts here regarding low vs high gain. I know that this topic has been discussed extensively in general with no consensus. With my HD600, I can use either low gain or high gain setting to get acceptable volumes. With low gain, the volume pot is generally between 2 and 5 o'clock (all the way up), while it is anywhere between 9 and 12 o'clock using the high gain setting. I know a lot of people think that high gain generally produces better sound. Are there any technical explanations for this? Would the overall distortion increase if one was to volume match the signal using high gain vs low gain?
> 
> There is the theory that turning the volume pot all the way up in low gain mode increases distortion more than leaving it in 12 o'clock position using high gain mode. Is this just a myth?
> 
> Any input will be appreciated.


I think this is a good question for Schiit Audio tech support. I know how gain vs distortion works with the Vali 2. But I don't know what the feedback loop is in the Magni 3. In the Vali low gain introduces more negative feedback so lower distortion meaning less tube sound. With the Magni on low gain turning volume  to max doesn't seem to add any distortion. And the specs don't give distortion ratings for high and low gain separately so it's hard to tell.


----------



## Rensek

riffrafff said:


> That's fairly typical of the low range of audio taper pots, especially most inexpensive ones (even Alps).  That's also why Schiit products like the Saga and Freya use relay-stepped attenuators, to get around that typical channel-imbalance.



I listened to my magni 3 via saga this weekend. I loved it. Set the volume pot all the way open for pass through, and use saga to control volume. Best Magni 3 experience yet. Granted I was employing scotch mod, but still it was awesome. HD6XX'S. I preferred the sound with low gain. 



bboris77 said:


> I have another question for experts here regarding low vs high gain. I know that this topic has been discussed extensively in general with no consensus. With my HD600, I can use either low gain or high gain setting to get acceptable volumes. With low gain, the volume pot is generally between 2 and 5 o'clock (all the way up), while it is anywhere between 9 and 12 o'clock using the high gain setting. I know a lot of people think that high gain generally produces better sound. Are there any technical explanations for this? Would the overall distortion increase if one was to volume match the signal using high gain vs low gain?
> 
> There is the theory that turning the volume pot all the way up in low gain mode increases distortion more than leaving it in 12 o'clock position using high gain mode. Is this just a myth?
> 
> Any input will be appreciated.



I did ask schiit about this awhile back. Basically I was told there is no difference in quality (I didn't ask about distortion), and that I should use whatever sounds best to me. 

Personally I like the low gain better, I feel like it gives more control. The sound is less aggressive, and I feel like I can listen to music louder through low, then high, from an enjoyability standpoint. To each their own. I will sometimes switch to highgain if I'm listening to 80's rock or something with less musical instruments involved. ZZ top for example sounds better through high gain, only three instruments mostly, and I dont feel like I'm missing anything. I feel like high gain doesn't allow me to hear as much of the music on more complex or detailed songs. Queen and classical is much better to me on low gain. 

Play around with it, listen to what you like, don't obsess over your gain setting for three months like I did.


----------



## bboris77

Rensek said:


> Play around with it, listen to what you like, don't obsess over your gain setting for three months like I did.



Wait, I thought obsessing over things like this is a requirement for belonging to this forum


----------



## tafens

bboris77 said:


> Wait, I thought obsessing over things like this is a requirement for belonging to this forum



No, not a requierement per se, just considered an additional qualification


----------



## Keno18

Rensek said:


> I listened to my magni 3 via saga this weekend. I loved it. Set the volume pot all the way open for pass through, and use saga to control volume. Best Magni 3 experience yet. Granted I was employing scotch mod, but still it was awesome. HD6XX'S. I preferred the sound with low gain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just tried your saga method with my Magni 3 except with a slightly  cheaper preamp, fx audio tube 01, and the results were outstanding.


----------



## ckvp

Hello everyone, sorry if this has been answered, I did try a search. Does the newest Magni support balanced audio through 2.5mm mmxc? Like seen here https://www.amazon.com/MEE-audio-Universal-Balanced-Adapter/dp/B076PWSSSJ?


----------



## JamminVMI

ckvp said:


> Hello everyone, sorry if this has been answered, I did try a search. Does the newest Magni support balanced audio through 2.5mm mmxc? Like seen here https://www.amazon.com/MEE-audio-Universal-Balanced-Adapter/dp/B076PWSSSJ?


Magni is single-ended, with 6.3mm (1/4”) jack... Generally, the 2.5mm balanced jack (someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here) is a DAP implementation. My FiiO X5 III has it, but the implementation isn’t great (read: awful), so I just stick with single-ended.

HTH


----------



## audiobomber

ckvp said:


> Hello everyone, sorry if this has been answered, I did try a search. Does the newest Magni support balanced audio through 2.5mm mmxc? Like seen here https://www.amazon.com/MEE-audio-Universal-Balanced-Adapter/dp/B076PWSSSJ?


The Magni 3 has sufficient power in single-ended mode to drive damn near any headphone. It does not need to work in balanced mode, which involves compromises of its own. See here for an explanation:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better


----------



## Indrajit

Hi, I have a Fiio X5iii and a Sennheiser HD 598. I only have had 598 and I don't use in ears.

 I am looking for a sound quality that is more neutral. I have options for 2 amps. I can buy either Fiio A5 or Magni 3. Portability or not is not an issue. Only sound quality matters. Can anyone here who has experienced both recommend a better amplifier?


----------



## BrotherKathos

Indrajit said:


> Hi, I have a Fiio X5iii and a Sennheiser HD 598. I only have had 598 and I don't use in ears.
> 
> I am looking for a sound quality that is more neutral. I have options for 2 amps. I can buy either Fiio A5 or Magni 3. Portability or not is not an issue. Only sound quality matters. Can anyone here who has experienced both recommend a better amplifier?



If you want neutral then magni 3 is off the list There is a great option you might not be aware of instead. Its the JDS labs Atom. Its $99 and has all the same features as the magni 3 while using the same output stage as jds labs flagship element amp which i own and like much more than the magni 3. The atom is designed to be a next generation o2 amp so neutrality and transparent amping is its mission first and formost. I’ve found the el amp to be very neutral and smooth comapared to the magni 3. Hope this helps

https://www.jdslabs.com/mobile/products/190/atom-amp/


----------



## Rensek

BrotherKathos said:


> If you want neutral then magni 3 is off the list There is a great option you might not be aware of instead. Its the JDS labs Atom. Its $99 and has all the same features as the magni 3 while using the same output stage as jds labs flagship element amp which i own and like much more than the magni 3. The atom is designed to be a next generation o2 amp so neutrality and transparent amping is its mission first and formost. I’ve found the el amp to be very neutral and smooth comapared to the magni 3. Hope this helps
> 
> https://www.jdslabs.com/mobile/products/190/atom-amp/



If the you find Magni 3 isn't a neutral amp, what makes it something other then neutral?


----------



## BrotherKathos (Nov 20, 2018)

Rensek said:


> If the you find Magni 3 isn't a neutral amp, what makes it something other then neutral?



Its a bright amp imo with harsh treble grain as you start to play music at louder volumes. Out of all the amps I own the magni 3 is the brightest one and its not a defective unit either since I had to send my unit back for a bad/scratchy volume knob and also complained about the treble thinking something was wrong with it. Schiit confirmed the unit was working as designed besides the volume pot that was found to be defective. The new pot is also scratching when you adjust volume so might just be a poor design.


----------



## Keno18

BrotherKathos said:


> Its a bright amp imo with harsh treble grain as you start to play music at louder volumes. Out of all the amps I own the magni 3 is the brightest one and its not a defective unit either since I had to send my unit back for a bad/scratchy volume knob and also complained about the treble thinking something was wrong with it. Schiit confirmed the unit was working as designed besides the volume pot that was found to be defective. The new pot is also scratching when you adjust volume so might just be a poor design.


I've never had a problem with the volume pot being scratchy. If yours is scratchy after being repaired I'd complain like heck to Schiit support. I used to use the Magni with HD 599 and never noticed shrill treble. What headphones were you using?


----------



## BrotherKathos (Nov 20, 2018)

Keno18 said:


> I've never had a problem with the volume pot being scratchy. If yours is scratchy after being repaired I'd complain like heck to Schiit support. I used to use the Magni with HD 599 and never noticed shrill treble. What headphones were you using?



I used it with all of the ones in my profile except for the beyerdynamics. The only headphones that sounds good with the magni 3 to me are my senn HD6XX. The boosted treble of the magni pumps those up a bit and works pretty good. It still gets a bit shrill imo at higher volumes, but as long as you are just casually listening at lower volumes its actually pretty good. Its like the magni 3 has permanent loudness enabled. I’ve used the magni with all my dacs cept for the big ego and d1. Still bright to me regardless of dac. The only way I’ll even think about doing the schiit support routine again is if they pay for my shipping both ways. I’ve already eaten shipping once and to do it again would put me 1/4th of the total price of the u it extra in shipping fees. I dont like the sound of the unit enough to bother. Probably just sell it eventually. Or put it to use in some other random place. Or a christmas gift!


----------



## Rensek (Nov 20, 2018)

I use the HD6xxs and don't find treble to be an issue. When I had modi multbit with my magni I found the treble good with my powered monitors as well. Now that I use magni 3 with Modi 3 and Loki I find myself slightly lowering the upper treble knob when using the monitors, but hardly use Loki at all with the HD6XXS, just depends on the album. The deluxe remastered white album on Tidal sounds flawless without Loki engaged.

Well that fits. All I have are HD6XX'S and the cheapo akg's from Massdrop. I listen on low gain 99 percent of the time.


----------



## Indrajit

Any comparisons between Magni 3 and Fiio amps?


----------



## BrotherKathos

Rensek said:


> I use the HD6xxs and don't find treble to be an issue. When I had modi multbit with my magni I found the treble good with my powered monitors as well. Now that I use magni 3 with Modi 3 and Loki I find myself slightly lowering the upper treble knob when using the monitors, but hardly use Loki at all with the HD6XXS, just depends on the album. The deluxe remastered white album on Tidal sounds flawless without Loki engaged.



yea the magni 3 and hd6xx is a good pair. I’m probably a bit to the extreme at my treble sensitivity as well. I can hear treble perfect on even dark equipment. My favorite systems are my Audeze lcd2c with topping d50 and thx 789, as well as my asgard 2 with mimby, loki and he-400i. the topping and lcd2c are said to be warm but ti me they come off neutral. I’ve got to jack the treble down with the 400i to 11:00 even with the supposedly warm asgard 2 to find it pleasant. So this gives people more of an understanding of my preference and how to understand my opinion.


----------



## Rensek

BrotherKathos said:


> yea the magni 3 and hd6xx is a good pair. I’m probably a bit to the extreme at my treble sensitivity as well. I can hear treble perfect on even dark equipment. My favorite systems are my Audeze lcd2c with topping d50 and thx 789, as well as my asgard 2 with mimby, loki and he-400i. the topping and lcd2c are said to be warm but ti me they come off neutral. I’ve got to jack the treble down with the 400i to 11:00 even with the supposedly warm asgard 2 to find it pleasant. So this gives people more of an understanding of my preference and how to understand my opinion.



Makes sense, usually when I turn the far right treble knob down, I turn the middle right knob up.

If I engaged Loki it's usually

2-3 o'clock
12 o'clock
1:30-2 o'clock
10 o'clock

From left to right.


----------



## Logistics

You're going to have to try one and see for yourself.  Everyone hears differently, and while the next guy may prefer the Magni 3, your hearing may prefer the A5.  You just have to try one and see for yourself.

However, the Magni 3 does have much higher output power.  Not that it's necessary.  Sennheiser is one of those companies that doesn't tend to list power handling.  However, independent tests have shown that only a few hundred milliwatts were necessary to reach acceptable listening levels so the A5 should suffice in that area.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Nov 20, 2018)

Rensek said:


> Makes sense, usually when I turn the far right treble knob down, I turn the middle right knob up.
> 
> If I engaged Loki it's usually
> 
> ...



Thats really close to my favorite setting as well except I have the midbass at 1:30-2 and leave the midrange flat on the 400i. The midbass boost gives the 400i a nice thickness that i find immersive. The bass is at 2 and treble at 11. Loki has made me love the 400i. Its gone from being my least favorite headphones to my second fav bc of the loki. This is with the asgard 2 amp


----------



## ngs428

From what I have read, the JDS Labs Atom amp is better than the Magni 3. That is why I am posting here, for comments...  

If I go the JDS route with the atom amp is it best to get the OL DAC or the Modi 3? I was planning to get the Magni 3/Modi 3 until I saw this amp review for the Atom.

I am powering a couple cans, HE4XX and X2. X2 are easy to drive.

Any thoughts would be great!


----------



## GearMe

Indrajit said:


> Hi, I have a Fiio X5iii and a Sennheiser HD 598. I only have had 598 and I don't use in ears.
> 
> I am looking for a sound quality that is more neutral. I have options for 2 amps. I can buy either Fiio A5 or Magni 3. Portability or not is not an issue. Only sound quality matters. Can anyone here who has experienced both recommend a better amplifier?



Not necessarily better...just another option.  

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=33304

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/monoprice-monolith-liquid-spark-by-alex-cavalli.876407/


----------



## gtbrown50

I'm using my Magni 3 with a Loki and I've really loved the combination....but now my Magni is having the scratchy pot issue in the right channel AND the volume balance issue. Seems to have started in the last couple of days and this morning is really noticeable. So phone to Schiit and get it fixed (I bought it in August). Just by coincidence my THX 789 is being delivered today! Now that's timing.


----------



## Keno18

Great combination: FX Audio tube-01 preamp with Sylvania 6ak5w tubes and the Magni 3. The warmth of the tubes really enhances the sound of the Magni.


----------



## Luxed

Hey everyone, I've got a Schitt Magni 3 that I got when it came out. I have that "humming" issue (even when nothing else is plugged into it). The noise never really bothered me because I mostly used my 250Ohm DT990, and the noise was less noticeable.
But now I would like to use some of my IEMs on my Magni but the humm is just too much. It's not worse, but since it's IN my ears, it gets annoying really quick.

What I tried to do for now was to plug the unit somewhere else.
Since that didn't work at all, I then tried to search what could be the issue, so I bought a Power Conditioner seeing as it was a solution that I saw somewhere.
The unit I bought is the Art Audio PB4X4 https://www.long-mcquade.com/1234/P...s/ART_Pro_Audio/Power_Distribution_System.htm.
And of course, after some time (over an hour), the noise comes back and gets progressively worse.

The question I have would be: Can the issue be caused by the power supply? Or would it be a defective unit?


----------



## Keno18

Luxed said:


> Hey everyone, I've got a Schitt Magni 3 that I got when it came out. I have that "humming" issue (even when nothing else is plugged into it). The noise never really bothered me because I mostly used my 250Ohm DT990, and the noise was less noticeable.
> But now I would like to use some of my IEMs on my Magni but the humm is just too much. It's not worse, but since it's IN my ears, it gets annoying really quick.
> 
> What I tried to do for now was to plug the unit somewhere else.
> ...


This is a job for Schiit tech support. They'll probably recommend a different hum filter. I can't quite remember the name they gave me, I think it was a HumX filter which is different from the power line conditioner you have now. Have you tried moving the unit to a different room altogether? Again with nothing plugged in it. Post the response you get from Schiit.


----------



## Luxed (Nov 30, 2018)

Keno18 said:


> This is a job for Schiit tech support. They'll probably recommend a different hum filter. I can't quite remember the name they gave me, I think it was a HumX filter which is different from the power line conditioner you have now. Have you tried moving the unit to a different room altogether? Again with nothing plugged in it. Post the response you get from Schiit.


I sent a mail to schiit as well. I know they will recommend me the HumX that only works with a grounded power supply. I can return the power conditioner because I bought it in a store. But that HumX is only available online and I have no idea if it will work. It is also more expensive than the power conditioner that should do even more... I may be entirely wrong here.
I'll try a different room and tell you the result, but whether it works or not is not a solution anyway. My computer is in my room, I can't move it.


----------



## Keno18

Luxed said:


> I sent a mail to schiit as well. I know they will recommend me the HumX that only works with a grounded power supply. I can return my unit because I bought it in a store. But that HumX is only available online and I have no idea if it will work. It is also more expensive than power conditioner that should do even more...
> I'll try a different room and tell you the result, but whether it works or not is not a solution anyway. My computer is in my room, I can't move it.


At least you'll know where the noise is coming from. If you buy the HumX from Amazon and it doesn't work you can return the filter as non-working and get a full refund. That happened to me when I bought a $75 (USD) isolation transformer and filter when I was diagnosing my hum problem. They took it back with no problems. In my case the power conditioner worked. If moving the unit does eliminate the noise perhaps you could run an extension cord from that outlet to where the computer is. It's not elegant but if it works...


----------



## Luxed

Keno18 said:


> At least you'll know where the noise is coming from. If you buy the HumX from Amazon and it doesn't work you can return the filter as non-working and get a full refund. That happened to me when I bought a $75 (USD) isolation transformer and filter when I was diagnosing my hum problem. They took it back with no problems. In my case the power conditioner worked. If moving the unit does eliminate the noise perhaps you could run an extension cord from that outlet to where the computer is. It's not elegant but if it works...


Unfortunately, I won't be able to run an extension, house is big and outlets are far apart xD
Maybe the power conditioner is not good enough?
I'll try to diagnose the issue further I guess and I'll post back if I find a solution.
For now I can use my Bravo Audio V2 amp for my Beyerdynamic DT990, but you can forget about using IEMs on that thing. Not only does it sound bad, but it is also way too powerful.


----------



## Keno18

Luxed said:


> Unfortunately, I won't be able to run an extension, house is big and outlets are far apart xD
> Maybe the power conditioner is not good enough?
> I'll try to diagnose the issue further I guess and I'll post back if I find a solution.
> For now I can use my Bravo Audio V2 amp for my Beyerdynamic DT990, but you can forget about using IEMs on that thing. Not only does it sound bad, but it is also way too powerful.


OK, good luck.


----------



## echoplex

Luxed said:


> Hey everyone, I've got a Schitt Magni 3 that I got when it came out. I have that "humming" issue (even when nothing else is plugged into it). The noise never really bothered me because I mostly used my 250Ohm DT990, and the noise was less noticeable.
> But now I would like to use some of my IEMs on my Magni but the humm is just too much. It's not worse, but since it's IN my ears, it gets annoying really quick.
> 
> What I tried to do for now was to plug the unit somewhere else.
> ...



This line piqued my curiosity: ". . . after some time (over an hour), the noise comes back and gets progressively worse."

Does this mean the hum initially went away when the Magni was plugged into the conditioner?  How long was the Magni disconnected from any power source before you plugged it into the conditioner and listened to it?  Have you tried unplugging it, letting it sit for a while, and then plugging it back in without the conditioner?  If the same pattern of working fine with the hum gradually returning occurs, that would be significant.  I would think that a ground loop hum would not go away and then come back gradually after an hour or more.  Others should correct me if I'm wrong.  If I'm correct, the facts point to a defective Magni or perhaps a defective wall wart.  

Did you try another outlet in another room to try to exclude the possibility of a local circuit ground loop or even a defective outlet?  You should also swap out wall warts if you've got an appropriate spare, just to rule out that link.

Good luck and keep us posted!


----------



## Logistics

I think it's peculiar how many of you complain about contact noise.  I didn't even imagine that people are so anal that they expect to turn the volume knob, and hear nothing but a change in volume.  But the solution is usually, just a small value capacitor to bleed off the contact noise.


----------



## Luxed

echoplex said:


> This line piqued my curiosity: ". . . after some time (over an hour), the noise comes back and gets progressively worse."
> 
> 1- Does this mean the hum initially went away when the Magni was plugged into the conditioner?
> 2- How long was the Magni disconnected from any power source before you plugged it into the conditioner and listened to it?
> ...



1, 3 and 4- Yes, the hum is not initially there when plugged into the conditioner or regular power. Here is the scenario: I plug it in, use it for a while without any issues and then the hum starts coming and gradually becomes worse. The hum is intermittent (it is not 100% hmmmmmmmm all the time, it humms for some seconds then stops, then comes back, etc.). If I unplug the wall wart and plug it again at this stage, nothing changes, the hum stays the same. It seems to me like it may be a defective wall wart because if I let it cool down for a while and use it again, the issue seems to have disappeared.
2- It wasn't unplugged, it was just turned off, plugged on regular power.



echoplex said:


> Did you try another outlet in another room to try to exclude the possibility of a local circuit ground loop or even a defective outlet? You should also swap out wall warts if you've got an appropriate spare, just to rule out that link.



I am trying this right now because @Keno18 asked me if it would make a difference. I let the magni plugged and ON in a separate room. I just checked it after a few hours of running and in 15 minutes of listening I only heard the hum once and for half a second (better than a constant hum with a few seconds of silence between the hum next to my computer).
Unfortunately, I have some 9V power supplies but nothing that has the same plug as the magni.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

I believe the Magni 3 uses an AC-AC adapter, not an AC-DC 9V.  So yeah, it's unlikely you'll find anything like that laying around.  Which means please don't plug random power adapters into the Magni 3 lol.


----------



## Keno18 (Nov 30, 2018)

Luxed said:


> 1, 3 and 4- Yes, the hum is not initially there when plugged into the conditioner or regular power. Here is the scenario: I plug it in, use it for a while without any issues and then the hum starts coming and gradually becomes worse. The hum is intermittent (it is not 100% hmmmmmmmm all the time, it humms for some seconds then stops, then comes back, etc.). If I unplug the wall wart and plug it again at this stage, nothing changes, the hum stays the same. It seems to me like it may be a defective wall wart because if I let it cool down for a while and use it again, the issue seems to have disappeared.
> 2- It wasn't unplugged, it was just turned off, plugged on regular power.
> 
> 
> ...


Now we have something to work with. Next I would move the Magni back to the room with the computer. This time turn off all the equipment that could cause the noise  (computer, etc. ) in the room. Run the Magni again as you did in the room with the least noise. If you still hear the noise it's not the computer or associated equipment. If the Magni IS quiet turn the other equipment on one at a time until the noise returns. You'll have found the culprit. Then you can ask Schiit what kind of filter to use instead of just getting their stock answer.


----------



## Luxed

SomeTechNoob said:


> I believe the Magni 3 uses an AC-AC adapter, not an AC-DC 9V. So yeah, it's unlikely you'll find anything like that laying around. Which means please don't plug random power adapters into the Magni 3 lol.



Yes, I know some things about electricity since I'm in school for Computer Science  I have some 9V AC power supply, but nothing else. AC to AC is not the most common thing.



Keno18 said:


> Now we have something to work with. Next I would move the Magni back to the room with the computer. This time turn off all the equipment that could cause the noise (computer, etc. ) in the room. Run the Magni again as you did in the room with the least noise. If you still hear the noise it's not the computer or associated equipment. If the Magni IS quiet turn the other equipment on one at a time until the noise returns. You'll have found the culprit. Then you can ask Schiit what kind of filter to use instead of just getting their stock answer.



I finally got to test that theory. And it *seemed* like it came from my computer. I tested that 3 times when the hum was here. Once my computer was off, the hum mostly disappeared (yes, *mostly*, not entirely). But at one time I had everything BUT the magni unplugged and the hum was still here. This issue seems to be too random to get a correct and definitive answer on what is causing it...


----------



## KaiFi

Finally sold my Magni 3. Couldn't stand the crackling in the right channel when moving the pot anymore. I expect better. My Magni 2 never had this problem.

Not sure if I want to try getting another one to see if it doesn't have the same issue...not sure how common that issue is. I remember sharing it before and others saying they had the same problem.


----------



## Keno18

Luxed said:


> I finally got to test that theory. And it *seemed* like it came from my computer. I tested that 3 times when the hum was here. Once my computer was off, the hum mostly disappeared (yes, *mostly*, not entirely). But at one time I had everything BUT the magni unplugged and the hum was still here. This issue seems to be too random to get a correct and definitive answer on what is causing it...





Luxed said:


> I finally got to test that theory. And it *seemed* like it came from my computer. I tested that 3 times when the hum was here. Once my computer was off, the hum mostly disappeared (yes, *mostly*, not entirely). But at one time I had everything BUT the magni unplugged and the hum was still here. This issue seems to be too random to get a correct and definitive answer on what is causing it...


Is there anything else in the room like a florescent light that could cause the hum? If not it seems you're close enough to the source since at least there was a difference with the computer off. There's a forum just on computer audio I wonder if someone there has more experience on removing line noise or could recommend a power line conditioner?


----------



## Keno18

KaiFi said:


> Finally sold my Magni 3. Couldn't stand the crackling in the right channel when moving the pot anymore. I expect better. My Magni 2 never had this problem.
> 
> Not sure if I want to try getting another one to see if it doesn't have the same issue...not sure how common that issue is. I remember sharing it before and others saying they had the same problem.


I really don't understand where all the pot noise is coming from. Could there have been a bad batch from their board supplier? I know it doesn't help but I have never had that problem and I constantly use my Magni. I still think it's worth while to shoot off a message to Schiit to report your experience. It seems to me that you have two choices, try the Magni again or go to another brand. I just saw a review on the Monoprice Liquid Spark, same price and power as the Magni.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Keno18 said:


> I really don't understand where all the pot noise is coming from. Could there have been a bad batch from their board supplier? I know it doesn't help but I have never had that problem and I constantly use my Magni. I still think it's worth while to shoot off a message to Schiit to report your experience. It seems to me that you have two choices, try the Magni again or go to another brand. I just saw a review on the Monoprice Liquid Spark, same price and power as the Magni.


I think its an open secret that the pot of the magni 3 is garbage. I've had one replaced already and the new one is still scratchy. I've read others having the same issues on multiple forums as well. That said its still a decent amp at its price point. Definitely has the most powerful specs on paper for its price to my knowledge. It will be interesting to see how much magni 3 sales are affected by the new jds atom or cavalli spark.


----------



## Keno18

BrotherKathos said:


> I think its an open secret that the pot of the magni 3 is garbage. I've had one replaced already and the new one is still scratchy. I've read others having the same issues on multiple forums as well. That said its still a decent amp at its price point. Definitely has the most powerful specs on paper for its price to my knowledge. It will be interesting to see how much magni 3 sales are affected by the new jds atom or cavalli spark.


I just shot off a message to Schiit support  telling them about all the complaints I've seen and suggested one of their people have a look at this thread. It's up to them now.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Keno18 said:


> I just shot off a message to Schiit support  telling them about all the complaints I've seen and suggested one of their people have a look at this thread. It's up to them now.


It could be just an inherent design trait of the magni. Maybe the noise was a trade off decision to gain some other benefit? Its really only an issue when you change the volume when music is playing so should only really bother the ocd members of the head-fi crowd. Whether the noisy pot negatively affects the overall sq who knows. I do know that he magni 3 is my least favorite headphone amp by far though. Too bright and grainy when you crank it up imo. Maybe it has something to do wit the pot? After I got mine back from testing they said it sounded like it should so its probably just my preference not aligning with the magni 3 sound profile. Will be nice to hear schiit feedback if they deem it necessary.


----------



## Keno18

BrotherKathos said:


> It could be just an inherent design trait of the magni. Maybe the noise was a trade off decision to gain some other benefit? Its really only an issue when you change the volume when music is playing so should only really bother the ocd members of the head-fi crowd. Whether the noisy pot negatively affects the overall sq who knows. I do know that he magni 3 is my least favorite headphone amp by far though. Too bright and grainy when you crank it up imo. Maybe it has something to do wit the pot? After I got mine back from testing they said it sounded like it should so its probably just my preference not aligning with the magni 3 sound profile. Will be nice to hear schiit feedback if they deem it necessary.


I don't think it's in the design. I've been using mine constantly for about 6 months now with no hint of a problem  I think they either got a bad batch or their buyer got a really "good" deal. But something like this can really damage them. Especially with all the new amps being introduced.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Keno18 said:


> I don't think it's in the design. I've been using mine constantly for about 6 months now with no hint of a problem  I think they either got a bad batch or their buyer got a really "good" deal. But something like this can really damage them. Especially with all the new amps being introduced.



It could very well be a bad batch. The problem with that from both sides is that the units are so cheap that many people like me will just either live with the bad pot, use it as a paper weight, or sell it since sending the unit in multiple times factoring shipping and gas to get to and from the usps will end up costing us half as much as the unit itself to fix it. Schiit's end is the same as they have to literally sell thousands of magni 3 at that low price point to make a profit and taking service requests on all these bad pots will kill their profit margin with added labor costs. Its a bad situation on both ends. If they are going to sell an amp that cheap it better be reliable, and if the pot issue is not a design trait then they are literally in the schiit so to speak concerning their pot supplier.


----------



## Keno18

BrotherKathos said:


> It could very well be a bad batch. The problem with that from both sides is that the units are so cheap that many people like me will just either live with the bad pot, use it as a paper weight, or sell it since sending the unit in multiple times factoring shipping and gas to get to and from the usps will end up costing us half as much as the unit itself to fix it. Schiit's end is the same as they have to literally sell thousands of magni 3 at that low price point to make a profit and taking service requests on all these bad pots will kill their profit margin with added labor costs. Its a bad situation on both ends. If they are going to sell an amp that cheap it better be reliable, and if the pot issue is not a design trait then they are literally in the schiit so to speak concerning their pot supplier.


I agree. It's bad for them either way. I'll post here if I get a response that's meaningful.


----------



## nicknack40 (Dec 1, 2018)

Ive a Magni 3 driving my LCD2-C's and its fine no pot issue with mine but im going to upgrade to the LYR 3. Im in the uk though and got mine from Schiit E.U. Will be intresting to see how this folds for the company on a whole for a trust side of things weather to part my money with them or not


----------



## Luxed

Keno18 said:


> Is there anything else in the room like a florescent light that could cause the hum? If not it seems you're close enough to the source since at least there was a difference with the computer off. There's a forum just on computer audio I wonder if someone there has more experience on removing line noise or could recommend a power line conditioner?


No, the computer is the culprit. But I don't know if I should plug it to the power conditioner too? should I plug everything in there? I really don't know how these things work.
But right now , I have some time to return the conditioner, and I will.

The magni 3 is not the only kid in the block at 100$ now. There is also the JDS Labs Atom (plastic box unfortunately) and the Monoprice Liquid Spark.
The Monoprice option is the same power as the Magni 3, but the metal construction is why it looks like a better option to me (yes I know, I like the quality feel that metal gives me).

So now my main option would be to sell my Magni 3 and power conditioner to replace it with the Monoprice Liquid Spark. I really liked the clean look of the schiit stack, but if I have to spend over the price of the amp to fix its issues, I much prefer to buy something that will work better.

Anyway, thanks @Keno18 and @echoplex for all your help, but unfortunately, I'm done with my Magni 3 and some lucky guy in Montreal will get it for something around 75$ (CAD).


----------



## tamleo (Dec 1, 2018)

Im sad about many people have been getting problem with the Magni 3. Mine have been working perfectly. To me, the Magni 3 is the amp that "transformed" Schiit from a decent-quality amplifier manufacturer to a good one.
I have not listened to the Jot and the Rag though.


----------



## Luxed

tamleo said:


> Im sad about many people have been getting problem with the Magni 3. Mine have been working perfectly. To me, the Magni 3 is the amp that "transformed" Schiit from a decent-quality amplifier manufacturer to a good one.
> I have not listened to the Jot and the Rag though.


If I didn't start at the Magni 3 I would swear by this brand. Unfortunately, it's not the case, and the cost cannot be justified for a Canadian either. I paid 400$ Canadian for the schiit stack (modi 2 + Magni 3).
The sound quality I got out of that setup is incredible.


----------



## 441879

My Magni 3 has been problem free and no issues. I’ve been using it as backup for my Lyr 3 which has not been problem free and is currently being repaired under warranty by Schiit. 

I like the sound of both units, but Schiit does seem to have reliability issues. Maybe they sell so many units that they appear to have problems at a high rate because their sales are so large, but without anything but anecdotal evidence there’s no way to tell.

In any case my experience with their customer service has been good other than they’re slower than expected on turning around warranty repairs.


----------



## echoplex

Luxed said:


> No, the computer is the culprit. But I don't know if I should plug it to the power conditioner too? should I plug everything in there? I really don't know how these things work.
> But right now , I have some time to return the conditioner, and I will.
> 
> The magni 3 is not the only kid in the block at 100$ now. There is also the JDS Labs Atom (plastic box unfortunately) and the Monoprice Liquid Spark.
> ...



But if it's the computer, why do you assume that a different amp won't have the same problem?  I would at least hold on to the Magni until I tried to deal effectively with the line noise/computer issue, and until I had a chance to compare the potential replacement amps in your set up (make sure you've got return options).

Good luck.


----------



## Keno18

Luxed said:


> No, the computer is the culprit. But I don't know if I should plug it to the power conditioner too? should I plug everything in there? I really don't know how these things work.
> But right now , I have some time to return the conditioner, and I will.
> 
> The magni 3 is not the only kid in the block at 100$ now. There is also the JDS Labs Atom (plastic box unfortunately) and the Monoprice Liquid Spark.
> ...


I don't blame you. Having to pay even more for a power conditioner to fix an entry level amp isn't really justified. I did for mine because 6 months ago the Magni was the only game in town. A reviewer for Stereophile said he had noise at his location, his solution was to plug the Magni into a $695 conditioner. Not very cost effective. If I were looking now I'd consider the Monoprice Liquid Spark. It is comparable to the Magni in price and power. Amazon carried it and you'd have hassle free returns.


----------



## Keno18

echoplex said:


> But if it's the computer, why do you assume that a different amp won't have the same problem?  I would at least hold on to the Magni until I tried to deal effectively with the line noise/computer issue, and until I had a chance to compare the potential replacement amps in your set up (make sure you've got return options).
> 
> Good luck.


That's a good idea.


----------



## Luxed

echoplex said:


> But if it's the computer, why do you assume that a different amp won't have the same problem?  I would at least hold on to the Magni until I tried to deal effectively with the line noise/computer issue, and until I had a chance to compare the potential replacement amps in your set up (make sure you've got return options).
> 
> Good luck.


I have a Bravo Audio V2 amp for now. It doesn't have any issue but it uses DC as power. So I will way to have the other option before selling my magni for sure. 



Keno18 said:


> I don't blame you. Having to pay even more for a power conditioner to fix an entry level amp isn't really justified. I did for mine because 6 months ago the Magni was the only game in town. A reviewer for Stereophile said he had noise at his location, his solution was to plug the Magni into a $695 conditioner. Not very cost effective. If I were looking now I'd consider the Monoprice Liquid Spark. It is comparable to the Magni in price and power. Amazon carried it and you'd have hassle free returns.


Yup, I saw that review. Overkill for a 100$ amp. 
Monoprice seems to be a good option in the audio industry lately. Their monolith brand seems to be well regarded.


----------



## Rensek

My magni 3 has been flawless, no scratchy pot, no imbalance. To the guy who said he sold his, I'm sure hoping you tried to get a hold of schiit first. These things have two year warranties, Schiit stands by their product. Obviously we don't know what percentage of Magnis get bad pots, but it sure seems to be their most common warranty issue. Also keep in mind they have sold thousands upon thousands of these, and the number of people who complained on this thread are relatively small. Mine was purchased last December and it's serial number is high 6 thousands.


----------



## ckvp

Logistics said:


> I think it's peculiar how many of you complain about contact noise.  I didn't even imagine that people are so anal that they expect to turn the volume knob, and hear nothing but a change in volume.  But the solution is usually, just a small value capacitor to bleed off the contact noise.



How exactly would this work? Where would I place the capacitor?


----------



## KaiFi (Dec 1, 2018)

I don't think it's being anal at all. I've tried several other amps, including ones by Schiit, that don't have any noise other than a change in volume. The only time I ever heard noise when adjusting the volume was with vintage equipment from the 70s and 80s. I expect it on that. I don't expect it on a brand new modern amp. If that makes me a spoiled brat, so be it.  I think in a hobby where we're willing to spend hundreds or thousands for marginal improvements in sound that many people wouldn't even notice, it's not unreasonable to think a noisy pot is unacceptable.


----------



## echoplex

Hmmm . . . that AC to AC power supply may have some particular vulnerabilities.  Of course you’re correct, buying a conditioner to keep a $99 amp is nuts, given the alternatives.  

My Magni is working just fine, but I have to crank it almost to the max on high gain (often around 4 o’clock on good recordings/masters) to drive my 600 Ohm Beyerdynamic DT880s and AKG K240DFs to a reasonable reference volume.  

I’m very intrigued by the JDS Atom and even more by the Monoprice Liquid Spark. But it’s not clear if they have power, or more accurately the voltage, to drive these 600 Ohm cans.  Many people post that they are comparable in power to the Magni, but none I’ve found are using such hard to drive headphones—and neither company and no reviews I’ve found have spec’d either amp’s performance at r600.

I still may end up ordering one, or both, to compare them to the Magni.


----------



## echoplex

KaiFi said:


> I don't think it's being anal at all. I've tried several other amps, including ones by Schiit, that don't have any noise other than a change in volume. The only time I ever heard noise when adjusting the volume was with vintage equipment from the 70s and 80s. I expect it on that. I don't expect it on a brand new modern amp. If that makes me a spoiled brat, so be it.  I think in a hobby where we're willing to spend hundreds or thousands for marginal improvements in sound that many people wouldn't even notice, it's not unreasonable to think a noisy pot is unacceptable.



A noisy pot out of the box is unacceptable.  Absolutely!  It’s likely a bad part, since the pots aren’t old enough to oxidize as with vintage gear.


----------



## BrotherKathos

echoplex said:


> Hmmm . . . that AC to AC power supply may have some particular vulnerabilities.  Of course you’re correct, buying a conditioner to keep a $99 amp is nuts, given the alternatives.
> 
> My Magni is working just fine, but I have to crank it almost to the max on high gain (often around 4 o’clock on good recordings/masters) to drive my 600 Ohm Beyerdynamic DT880s and AKG K240DFs to a reasonable reference volume.
> 
> ...



Wow those are some really hard to drive headphones you have. I find it hard to keep the volume of the magni 3 anywhere past 11:00 on low gain with my 300 ohm Senn HD6XX. Although I did let an older gentleman demo the modi 3 magni 3 stack with the hd6xx and he would crank them up to 1:00 on high gain. I was like omg you are either almost deaf or you will be soon. Was like i was hearing a concert sprout from his ears. Almost cringed when I thought of what was happening to his eardrums.


----------



## riffrafff

"Made loud to be played loud." -- Back of the original _James Gang Rides Again _ LP jacket.


----------



## echoplex

BrotherKathos said:


> Wow those are some really hard to drive headphones you have. I find it hard to keep the volume of the magni 3 anywhere past 11:00 on low gain with my 300 ohm Senn HD6XX. Although I did let an older gentleman demo the modi 3 magni 3 stack with the hd6xx and he would crank them up to 1:00 on high gain. I was like omg you are either almost deaf or you will be soon. Was like i was hearing a concert sprout from his ears. Almost cringed when I thought of what was happening to his eardrums.



Cranking it that high with my 250 Ohm Beyer DT880s would blow out my eardrums. The 600 Ohm model is a very different beast.  The AKGs are just brutal to drive, more so than the Beyers.  

Part of the reason I have to crank it up so high may have to do with increments on the pot.  There is a steep volume increase at first, but somewhere between 11 and 12 o’clock the increment rapidly diminish and the volume almost plateaus through approximately 4 o’cLock. This makes perfect sense for most cans and owners: get the general volume level most people want then fine tune it.  

At the very end of the pot’s rotation, the increments grow larger again and the volume increase is steeper.  The somewhat disconcerting result is that I think the amp will just run out of gas and clip, but then it doesn’t.  But this does make the volume hard to fine tune on these phones.

I’m curious if others have had this experience.


----------



## BrotherKathos

echoplex said:


> Cranking it that high with my 250 Ohm Beyer DT880s would blow out my eardrums. The 600 Ohm model is a very different beast.  The AKGs are just brutal to drive, more so than the Beyers.
> 
> Part of the reason I have to crank it up so high may have to do with increments on the pot.  There is a steep volume increase at first, but somewhere between 11 and 12 o’clock the increment rapidly diminish and the volume almost plateaus through approximately 4 o’cLock. This makes perfect sense for most cans and owners: get the general volume level most people want then fine tune it.
> 
> ...



That makes sense about the volume tuning. I kind of wish it was the other way round though, since pots as far as I know usually sound better when cranked higher, but I never am able to get any of my amps past 12 even on the lowest of gain settings before I hit my threshold of discomfort. I've done tests with sound meters with floor speakers and my typical listening volume is around 80db, I can handle a bit higher for dynamic peaks with some classical, but definitely not for a sustained period. Is getting a higher turn on the pot still a thing or has that variable been engineered out of new pots?


----------



## Luxed

echoplex said:


> I’m curious if others have had this experience


Yup that's how it works for me too. 

And for the volume, my computer is at 100% for the Modi but my music player is at around 20 to 30% with my know never getting past 12 on high gain with my 250ohm DT990. If I put everything to max I would guess that high gain would be impossible and IEMs would be unlistenable.


----------



## echoplex

BrotherKathos said:


> That makes sense about the volume tuning. I kind of wish it was the other way round though, since pots as far as I know usually sound better when cranked higher, but I never am able to get any of my amps past 12 even on the lowest of gain settings before I hit my threshold of discomfort. I've done tests with sound meters with floor speakers and my typical listening volume is around 80db, I can handle a bit higher for dynamic peaks with some classical, but definitely not for a sustained period. Is getting a higher turn on the pot still a thing or has that variable been engineered out of new pots?



I’m with ya, wishing the typical scale was reversed.  I think there may be some sly marketing going on.  With the rapid and steep volume increase early on, most people with more typical impedance headphones will never turn the volume knob much more than a quarter of the way up.  This creates the illusion of a massively powerful amp.  I suspect the same thing happens with full sized amps and speakers. 

I’ve measured my typical listening levels too and they tend to be between 80 and 85 dB.  The source recording matters a great deal.  Brick-walled masters have to be turned down because they’re mastered to be LOUD.  Better mastering, especially in high res that exploit the greater dynamic range need turning up—and the peaks really jolt you, as they’re supposed to. -)


----------



## Rensek

echoplex said:


> Cranking it that high with my 250 Ohm Beyer DT880s would blow out my eardrums. The 600 Ohm model is a very different beast.  The AKGs are just brutal to drive, more so than the Beyers.
> 
> Part of the reason I have to crank it up so high may have to do with increments on the pot.  There is a steep volume increase at first, but somewhere between 11 and 12 o’clock the increment rapidly diminish and the volume almost plateaus through approximately 4 o’cLock. This makes perfect sense for most cans and owners: get the general volume level most people want then fine tune it.
> 
> ...



How much of this is due to the power doubling requirements per 3db spl? I would imagine same physics law applies to HP and hp amps as speakers and speaker amps.


----------



## Logistics

ckvp said:


> How exactly would this work? Where would I place the capacitor?



Normally, you wouldn't; whoever designed the amp would.



KaiFi said:


> I don't think it's being anal at all. I've tried several other amps, including ones by Schiit, that don't have any noise other than a change in volume. The only time I ever heard noise when adjusting the volume was with vintage equipment from the 70s and 80s. I expect it on that. I don't expect it on a brand new modern amp. If that makes me a spoiled brat, so be it.  I think in a hobby where we're willing to spend hundreds or thousands for marginal improvements in sound that many people wouldn't even notice, it's not unreasonable to think a noisy pot is unacceptable.



Whoa, let's not get ahead of ourselves.  I'm not saying you're spoiled, but I can't identify with essentially, having my listening experience ruined due to a little slider contact noise.  Even old Soundblaster 16's, which used the TEA2025b, called for a minimum of a 0.22uF capacitor on the incoming line-level inputs to filter off any potential slider contact noise.  And several had their own volume pots, which could have contact noise, regardless.  



echoplex said:


> A noisy pot out of the box is unacceptable.  Absolutely!  It’s likely a bad part, since the pots aren’t old enough to oxidize as with vintage gear.



Same as above; I just don't see it as a determining factor when it comes to buying an amplifier.  But then my rig doesn't suffer from much listening fatigue so I rarely, have to change volume unless it's some terrible transfer someone did onto YouTube, which ends up being inordinately loud.



Luxed said:


> Yup that's how it works for me too.
> 
> And for the volume, my computer is at 100% for the Modi but my music player is at around 20 to 30% with my know never getting past 12 on high gain with my 250ohm DT990. If I put everything to max I would guess that high gain would be impossible and IEMs would be unlistenable.



Can you clarify the way you are listening?  Based on my own experience, I was under the impression you always want to max everything before the amplifier so that it has to do the least amount of work.  Of course, this might be bad if you have a lower quality source.  I haven't tried using the digital output of my motherboard to see how it stacks up against my Delta 410's coax so I can't speak on the difference, yet.

Happy listening, all!


----------



## Keno18

Logistics said:


> Whoa, let's not get ahead of ourselves.  I'm not saying you're spoiled, but I can't identify with essentially, having my listening experience ruined due to a little slider contact noise.  Even old Soundblaster 16's, which used the TEA2025b, called for a minimum of a 0.22uF capacitor on the incoming line-level inputs to filter off any potential slider contact noise.  And several had their own volume pots, which could have contact noise, regardless.


Wouldn't that roll off high frequencies?


----------



## Logistics

Keno18 said:


> Wouldn't that roll off high frequencies?



Pretty, sure you'd need to know the specifications for the capacitor in question.  As to whether it begins to dip into the audible range, I'm not certain.  But there's certainly, benefits to be seen.  For instance, on a Sound Blaster Live! I replaced the 10uF electrolytics, which Creative had placed between the main DSP and the output OpAmps with something along the lines of a 0.1uF polyester or mylar, and the card was absolutely, transformed--suddently, the soundstage was amazing with good separation, the highs were very detailed, allowing me to hear sounds I had never heard before, and the card didn't cause all the listening fatigue that was present with the electrolytics.  I did further modding to that card, but point being that in practice, the addition of small value films doesn't appear to diminish the listening experience... the benefits far out-weigh any potential losses.


----------



## echoplex

Rensek said:


> How much of this is due to the power doubling requirements per 3db spl? I would imagine same physics law applies to HP and hp amps as speakers and speaker amps.



Probably some, but not all.  If it was just the physics of increasing volume/power I wouldn’t get that steeper increase again at the very end.


----------



## gtbrown50

Regarding Magni 3 and its effect on Schiit....I really enjoyed mine and agree that at $99 it is a real industry shaker, its sound is excellent and small foot print makes it very flexible for desktop use. My primary reason to change to the THX 789 was same sound but superior ergonomics. I appreciate the 789's control layout and balanced inputs and outputs.

I still appreciate the Magni 3's sound.


----------



## Keno18

Logistics said:


> ...but point being that in practice, the addition of small value films doesn't appear to diminish the listening experience... the benefits far out-weigh any potential losses.


Be that as it may, I received an answer from Schiit. Support is making the proper area aware of the controversy here. I'm hopeful we'll have a resolution. They answered me on a Saturday night.


----------



## Luxed

Logistics said:


> Can you clarify the way you are listening? Based on my own experience, I was under the impression you always want to max everything before the amplifier so that it has to do the least amount of work. Of course, this might be bad if you have a lower quality source. I haven't tried using the digital output of my motherboard to see how it stacks up against my Delta 410's coax so I can't speak on the difference, yet


I don't listen music loudly, and I need to hear other sounds on my computer because I am in voice chat most of the time. But if Imax everything out, my amp will be on low gain all the time and barely doing anything. But it would also be impossible to adjust the volume for me. I don't like when my amd is barely turned because I am in the area where the volume is louder on one side. 
But hey, I don't listen to anything that is mastered greatly. Metal has a tendency to be as loud as possible all the time.


----------



## Logistics

Luxed said:


> I don't listen music loudly, and I need to hear other sounds on my computer because I am in voice chat most of the time. But if Imax everything out, my amp will be on low gain all the time and barely doing anything. But it would also be impossible to adjust the volume for me. I don't like when my amd is barely turned because I am in the area where the volume is louder on one side.
> But hey, I don't listen to anything that is mastered greatly. Metal has a tendency to be as loud as possible all the time.



Oh, I see where you're coming from; that's an annoying problem to have with your volume potentiometer.  I would put the volume pot where it needs to be to have even sound, and just adjust your source volume down till it's comfortable to listen to.  But I know what you mean about metal recordings.  It was very frustrating to move up to such a revealing listening rig, and then find some of your favorite albums are harder to listen to because all of the hash-up of distortion-filled sounds are more defined.  Case in point: Blind Guardian - Nightfall in Middle Earth--lovely album, but lots of noise going on.  On the flip side, something like the Black Sabbath - Mob Rules album sounds fantastic.


----------



## Luxed

Logistics said:


> Oh, I see where you're coming from; that's an annoying problem to have with your volume potentiometer.  I would put the volume pot where it needs to be to have even sound, and just adjust your source volume down till it's comfortable to listen to.  But I know what you mean about metal recordings.  It was very frustrating to move up to such a revealing listening rig, and then find some of your favorite albums are harder to listen to because all of the hash-up of distortion-filled sounds are more defined.  Case in point: Blind Guardian - Nightfall in Middle Earth--lovely album, but lots of noise going on.  On the flip side, something like the Black Sabbath - Mob Rules album sounds fantastic.


Most of what I listen to is recent Metalcore. So usually it is extremely clean sounding. But sometimes I also go to progressive metal or even progressive rock which is better recorded and lets me push the volume a bit more.
In any case, music on my desktop is usually background music and my games are usually at less than 50% because of voice chats (they are always at maxed out, but I prefer to ear people talking to me than my music or games).
But I see what you mean by "harder to listen to". There are some albums that I really want to like, but my gear just amplifies all of the imperfections (IE: Skyharbor - Guiding lights, Northlane - Mesmer).
At the end of the day, I'll say that most of my listening is done on the go (usually at school where I listen to music all day long). So my Fiio X1 II is where I really listen to music with some cheap KZ "Chi-Fi" IEMs (because I really like the closeness of IEMs. I don't know why, but I like my Metal band to be screaming in my head, not far away).

Oh and also, I don't listen to any flac files (almost, one of the exceptions is Bent Knee - Say So, a really good and weird rock album that I really recommend to anyone) because I cannot hear the difference when the masters are always a big wall of sound.


----------



## echoplex

Logistics said:


> Oh, I see where you're coming from; that's an annoying problem to have with your volume potentiometer.  I would put the volume pot where it needs to be to have even sound, and just adjust your source volume down till it's comfortable to listen to.  But I know what you mean about metal recordings.  It was very frustrating to move up to such a revealing listening rig, and then find some of your favorite albums are harder to listen to because all of the hash-up of distortion-filled sounds are more defined.  Case in point: Blind Guardian - Nightfall in Middle Earth--lovely album, but lots of noise going on.  On the flip side, something like the Black Sabbath - Mob Rules album sounds fantastic.



My rule of thumb is the more popular the song/album, the worse the mastering.  There are exceptions, of course, but the popular stuff tends to be fodder for the loudness wars that never seem to end.

Volume setting on the computer and amp is a balancing act.  I too want ease of control by turning down the computer or player, but that can reduce bit depth and therefore dynamic range.  Unfortunately, most popular recordings have minimal dynamic range, so there’s not much to lose.


----------



## echoplex

Luxed said:


> Most of what I listen to is recent Metalcore. So usually it is extremely clean sounding. But sometimes I also go to progressive metal or even progressive rock which is better recorded and lets me push the volume a bit more.
> In any case, music on my desktop is usually background music and my games are usually at less than 50% because of voice chats (they are always at maxed out, but I prefer to ear people talking to me than my music or games).
> But I see what you mean by "harder to listen to". There are some albums that I really want to like, but my gear just amplifies all of the imperfections (IE: Skyharbor - Guiding lights, Northlane - Mesmer).
> At the end of the day, I'll say that most of my listening is done on the go (usually at school where I listen to music all day long). So my Fiio X1 II is where I really listen to music with some cheap KZ "Chi-Fi" IEMs (because I really like the closeness of IEMs. I don't know why, but I like my Metal band to be screaming in my head, not far away).
> ...



For your purposes, on the go with cheap iems, flac is a waste of space.  I, and most people I know, have a very hard time distinguishing between 320k and even 256k and flac files.  I keep flac files anyway because that allows me to store recordings in their complete state for later use—and storage has become very cheap.


----------



## Luxed

echoplex said:


> For your purposes, on the go with cheap iems, flac is a waste of space.  I, and most people I know, have a very hard time distinguishing between 320k and even 256k and flac files.  I keep flac files anyway because that allows me to store recordings in their complete state for later use—and storage has become very cheap.


I would be interested in a good FLAC vs MP3 blind test.
And for my love for cheap IEMs, there is always the law of diminishing return  I like having different sound signatures without having to EQ. And nowadays, 20$ can get you an amazing IEM.


----------



## Keno18 (Dec 2, 2018)

Luxed said:


> Most of what I listen to is recent Metalcore. So usually it is extremely clean sounding. But sometimes I also go to progressive metal or even progressive rock which is better recorded and lets me push the volume a bit more.
> In any case, music on my desktop is usually background music and my games are usually at less than 50% because of voice chats (they are always at maxed out, but I prefer to ear people talking to me than my music or games).
> But I see what you mean by "harder to listen to". There are some albums that I really want to like, but my gear just amplifies all of the imperfections (IE: Skyharbor - Guiding lights, Northlane - Mesmer).
> At the end of the day, I'll say that most of my listening is done on the go (usually at school where I listen to music all day long). So my Fiio X1 II is where I really listen to music with some cheap KZ "Chi-Fi" IEMs (because I really like the closeness of IEMs. I don't know why, but I like my Metal band to be screaming in my head, not far away).
> ...


What do you use to listen to your music with your HPs? I use a laptop with Foobar that runs audio dsp software in real-time that corrects much of the problems with poorly mastered recordings.


----------



## Luxed

Keno18 said:


> What do you use to listen to your music with your HPs? I use a laptop with Foobar that runs audio dsp software in real-time that corrects much of the problems with poorly mastered recordings.


On my desktop I use the schiit modi 2 and magni 3 (or my Bravo Audio V2 because of the issues I have on my magni). My music player is currently Clementine under Windows (even though I have a Foobar config, but clementine "just works" so I use that instead) and under Linux I use Cmus. 
But I would guess that your question leads to a recommendation


----------



## Keno18

Luxed said:


> On my desktop I use the schiit modi 2 and magni 3 (or my Bravo Audio V2 because of the issues I have on my magni). My music player is currently Clementine under Windows (even though I have a Foobar config, but clementine "just works" so I use that instead) and under Linux I use Cmus.
> But I would guess that your question leads to a recommendation


Uh, we'll yes... I use 3 vst audio plug-ins with foobar under a foobar vst adapter. The one that does most of the work is Perfect Declipper. It restores clipping distortion as well as recovering transients and levels all automatically. I use it all the time because I also listen to iTunes files that it also repairs. I find it works very nicely with cd to FLAC rips. It's pricey because the author knows it works  (100 euros). The others are a resampler and an effective limiter. You can download a trial version of the declipper. Google foobar vst adapter to get the adapter to run vst plug-ins in foobar.


----------



## Luxed

Well, the Schiit support seems to be extremely good. They just sent me a replacement Wall-Wart power supply. Hopefully it will come in a few days and will solve my huming issues!
If this works I would be really happy, but I'm still skeptical knowing that it is related to my computer being turned on or not.
Still, that's a good start.


----------



## Keno18

Luxed said:


> Well, the Schiit support seems to be extremely good. They just sent me a replacement Wall-Wart power supply. Hopefully it will come in a few days and will solve my huming issues!
> If this works I would be really happy, but I'm still skeptical knowing that it is related to my computer being turned on or not.
> Still, that's a good start.


At least they're trying.


----------



## Luxed

Keno18 said:


> At least they're trying.


Yes! And that's excellent! Since I'm patient and have other stuff I'll just wait and see with them if we can make it work out (I'm really happy with this gear and no interest in changing it if it works).


----------



## ChaChaRealSmooth

It's unfortunate for me to read that people are having problems with their Magni 3 amps.

FWIW, my Magni 3 has been flawless and I can't express my satisfaction with this little amp enough! I find its sound to be mostly neutral with a touch of sweetness in the treble. As far as power delivery, I have not felt that any headphones I tried with it have been underdriven (I actually really like the LCD-3 with this little amp. Who would have thought that a $2000 headset would sound great out of a $100 amp?).


----------



## Luxed

ChaChaRealSmooth said:


> It's unfortunate for me to read that people are having problems with their Magni 3 amps.
> 
> FWIW, my Magni 3 has been flawless and I can't express my satisfaction with this little amp enough! I find its sound to be mostly neutral with a touch of sweetness in the treble. As far as power delivery, I have not felt that any headphones I tried with it have been underdriven (I actually really like the LCD-3 with this little amp. Who would have thought that a $2000 headset would sound great out of a $100 amp?).


Great little thing indeed, people are having issues and post here but I'd still say this is a minority. This amp is amazing but even if I finally make it work, I may still have to sell it because it is actually too powerful for my needs


----------



## ChaChaRealSmooth

Luxed said:


> Great little thing indeed, people are having issues and post here but I'd still say this is a minority. This amp is amazing but even if I finally make it work, I may still have to sell it because it is actually too powerful for my needs



I'm guessing (and hoping) that the problems reported are: a) the minority and b), the function of the sheer volume sold. If Schiit really is selling hundreds and hundreds of these (and they probably are), you're more likely to hear about problems some people have versus say, a Woo Audio amp, which is much more expensive and thus probably not sold in the numbers comparable to the Magni 3.


----------



## BrotherKathos

Luxed said:


> Well, the Schiit support seems to be extremely good. They just sent me a replacement Wall-Wart power supply. Hopefully it will come in a few days and will solve my huming issues!
> If this works I would be really happy, but I'm still skeptical knowing that it is related to my computer being turned on or not.
> Still, that's a good start.



This might not have anything to do with your issue, but hum that comes and goes could possibly be related to static on your body. I have a setup that I listen to next to my bed. I’ve found that sometimes I’ll get a faint ground hum out of my headphones after i get into bed and put the headphones on. I went through the usual switch of the plugs and tried the ol hum x with different components aslo. Then I noticed that I also got the hum when i had my ipad plugged into the wall and was holding it and it went away after i unplugged it and held it.

So i figured out that I was conducting electrical pulse through my head and body, and then from my hands to the ipad. I also noticed that I can touch the amp with one finger and the hum goes away. played  a little hummy tap for fun after that. I can also make the humm worse if i do some nice carpet rubbing before getting into bed. So basically the static from my body and the ability for it to conduct electricity is causing the hum. Strange when I think about this electrical current running through my brain and out of my hands. Maybe it’s helpful in charging my iPad! Hopefully I don’t turn into the lawnmower man...

Anyway, just wanted to share that to let you have something to think about that is possibly out of your initial consideration. Hope you find out the issue, but remember that when it gets cold static can really mess with everything electrical, and 5e human body is not a bad conductor either.


----------



## Luxed

BrotherKathos said:


> This might not have anything to do with your issue, but hum that comes and goes could possibly be related to static on your body. I have a setup that I listen to next to my bed. I’ve found that sometimes I’ll get a faint ground hum out of my headphones after i get into bed and put the headphones on. I went through the usual switch of the plugs and tried the ol hum x with different components aslo. Then I noticed that I also got the hum when i had my ipad plugged into the wall and was holding it and it went away after i unplugged it and held it.
> 
> So i figured out that I was conducting electrical pulse through my head and body, and then from my hands to the ipad. I also noticed that I can touch the amp with one finger and the hum goes away. played  a little hummy tap for fun after that. I can also make the humm worse if i do some nice carpet rubbing before getting into bed. So basically the static from my body and the ability for it to conduct electricity is causing the hum. Strange when I think about this electrical current running through my brain and out of my hands. Maybe it’s helpful in charging my iPad! Hopefully I don’t turn into the lawnmower man...
> 
> Anyway, just wanted to share that to let you have something to think about that is possibly out of your initial consideration. Hope you find out the issue, but remember that when it gets cold static can really mess with everything electrical, and 5e human body is not a bad conductor either.


Since I tested at 2 different places in my house and got different results I'd say that it is not the issue for me. I've singled out my computer as being the main issue, but anything else plugged in basically makes noise too. 
But that could happen to anyone so that's a good thing to know!


----------



## Luxed

Well, let me begin by giving a +1 to Schiit customer support! They sent the replacement Wall Wart power supply yesterday and I just received it. That's less than 24h delivery time.
The issue is that it didn't do anything. The hum is still present and I think that it simply is my power that is not clean enough because the washing machine was on upstairs (I am in the basement) and the hum was unbearable. But now that the machine is done, everything is good.
The second thing is that I will return my power conditioner because it does nothing at all.

Now, I'll keep schiit updated and see if they have another solution.


----------



## Keno18

Luxed said:


> Well, let me begin by giving a +1 to Schiit customer support! They sent the replacement Wall Wart power supply yesterday and I just received it. That's less than 24h delivery time.
> The issue is that it didn't do anything. The hum is still present and I think that it simply is my power that is not clean enough because the washing machine was on upstairs (I am in the basement) and the hum was unbearable. But now that the machine is done, everything is good.
> The second thing is that I will return my power conditioner because it does nothing at all.
> 
> Now, I'll keep schiit updated and see if they have another solution.


This is a real cliffhanger. I'd really be interested in what they recommend but my gut instinct is that it will be a better power line conditioner. I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Luxed

Keno18 said:


> This is a real cliffhanger. I'd really be interested in what they recommend but my gut instinct is that it will be a better power line conditioner. I hope I'm wrong.


Sadly they finally responded with the answer I was waiting for, which redirects me to their website where they recommend the EbTech HumX which may work, but it is 100$ (CAD) and I won't spend that much on something only to correct the issue on a 100$ (US) amp. So I think I'll finally go to the other solution. Buy something else that better suits my needs. Because most of my real music listening is done on my DAP and not on my computer, I could go for a less powerful and cheaper DAC/AMP combo or just something else that is not direct AC power. Because my Bravo Audio V2 amp doesn't have any hum issues (although I need to keep my phone far away or else I get some nasty noise).

I thank all once again for all the help and I hope the next owner of this stack will have a better experience than me 

To be clear, I will still recommend Schiit to anyone, because I have never found anyone else that has the issues that I have. So it clearly is a power issue in my house. On top of that their customer service is unbelievable. They did what they could for me and in a timely manner!


----------



## nicknack40

Thing is if your getting Hum from when the washing Machine is on and then the Hum goes after the washing machine has finished that is not a Schiit related issue, More your power supplier


----------



## Keno18

Luxed said:


> Sadly they finally responded with the answer I was waiting for, which redirects me to their website where they recommend the EbTech HumX which may work, but it is 100$ (CAD) and I won't spend that much on something only to correct the issue on a 100$ (US) amp. So I think I'll finally go to the other solution. Buy something else that better suits my needs. Because most of my real music listening is done on my DAP and not on my computer, I could go for a less powerful and cheaper DAC/AMP combo or just something else that is not direct AC power. Because my Bravo Audio V2 amp doesn't have any hum issues (although I need to keep my phone far away or else I get some nasty noise).
> 
> I thank all once again for all the help and I hope the next owner of this stack will have a better experience than me
> 
> To be clear, I will still recommend Schiit to anyone, because I have never found anyone else that has the issues that I have. So it clearly is a power issue in my house. On top of that their customer service is unbelievable. They did what they could for me and in a timely manner!


Looks like you have no choice. Well it is Xmas time. A new piece of audio gear would make a nice present.


----------



## Keno18

nicknack40 said:


> Thing is if your getting Hum from when the washing Machine is on and then the Hum goes after the washing machine has finished that is not a Schiit related issue, More your power supplier


The Magni appears to be sensitive to line noise in general. I also had a,problem, even the Stereophile reviewer had a problem. Both were solved by a power line conditioner. But now why spend the extra money when there are other options.


----------



## Logistics

Luxed said:


> Sadly they finally responded with the answer I was waiting for, which redirects me to their website where they recommend the EbTech HumX which may work, but it is 100$ (CAD) and I won't spend that much on something only to correct the issue on a 100$ (US) amp. So I think I'll finally go to the other solution. Buy something else that better suits my needs. Because most of my real music listening is done on my DAP and not on my computer, I could go for a less powerful and cheaper DAC/AMP combo or just something else that is not direct AC power. Because my Bravo Audio V2 amp doesn't have any hum issues (although I need to keep my phone far away or else I get some nasty noise).
> 
> I thank all once again for all the help and I hope the next owner of this stack will have a better experience than me
> 
> To be clear, I will still recommend Schiit to anyone, because I have never found anyone else that has the issues that I have. So it clearly is a power issue in my house. On top of that their customer service is unbelievable. They did what they could for me and in a timely manner!



Quite honestly, if I were you, rather than dump a big investment into a piece of brand name equipment,  I would DIY a simple mains line filter box with an outlet.  Obviously, who ever did the electrical in your place did it wrong or changed something and screwed it up.


----------



## Luxed (Dec 4, 2018)

nicknack40 said:


> Thing is if your getting Hum from when the washing Machine is on and then the Hum goes after the washing machine has finished that is not a Schiit related issue, More your power supplier


Indeed. But there is nothing I can/am really willing to do. This is time investment and money while I'm still at my parent's place. If it were my house I would look into it more deeply before getting new gear for sure.


Keno18 said:


> Looks like you have no choice. Well it is Xmas time. A new piece of audio gear would make a nice present.


Yes, but that Europe trip is already paid so the audio gear will wait. I got things that work and school is more important right now. Next summer I'll make some money. This is when I'll treat myself with new equipment.


Logistics said:


> I would DIY a simple mains line filter box with an outlet


Oh, I like DIY solutions, any links that you could recommend? I am not knowledgeable in this domain at all, but this is electricity, and although I don't like it because we are talking about mains power (child me was stupid), I'm still willing to create something because it's fun xD
EDIT: But isn't that the role of my Power Conditioner?


----------



## Selbi

I'm looking to add some more rumble to my powered JBL LSR305 speakers, which are currently driven by the Schiit's pre-amp outs. However, I'm unsure how one would include a subwoofer (specifically one with mono out, like this one) into the left/right RCA output chain. Any ideas?


----------



## Logistics

What are you using as a source?


----------



## Keno18

Selbi said:


> I'm looking to add some more rumble to my powered JBL LSR305 speakers, which are currently driven by the Schiit's pre-amp outs. However, I'm unsure how one would include a subwoofer (specifically one with mono out, like this one) into the left/right RCA output chain. Any ideas?


Not sure, but have a look at the JBL lsr310s. It supposedly connects to the 305s. Also look at Amazon for the 310s they list 2 downloadable manuals.


----------



## Selbi

Logistics said:


> What are you using as a source?


The line-outs from my old Fulla 2. I know I could hook up the woofer at its pre-outs, but then I would have to dial two knobs every time I want to adjust volume for speakers and woofer.



Keno18 said:


> Not sure, but have a look at the JBL lsr310s. It supposedly connects to the 305s. Also look at Amazon for the 310s they list 2 downloadable manuals.


Yeah, I took a look at those before, but they're out of my budget. I wasn't looking to spend more than 150€, and even that is already pushing it.


----------



## BrotherKathos (Dec 29, 2018)

Selbi said:


> I'm looking to add some more rumble to my powered JBL LSR305 speakers, which are currently driven by the Schiit's pre-amp outs. However, I'm unsure how one would include a subwoofer (specifically one with mono out, like this one) into the left/right RCA output chain. Any ideas?


You are kind of out of luck when you are using that kind of sub with only a single lfe input. You need a dedicated sub pre-out for that thing. You would be much better off finding a sub that has stereo line in, speaker terminal ins, or both like this one from svs. Its probably out of your price range, but many companies offer budget options with those connections







I found this one in a quick minute. It would make life much easier for you and should be in your price range.
http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.ph...tems/sub-800-8-80-watt-powered-subwoofer.html

or this for more bass at only $30 more

http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.ph...s/sub-1000-10-100-watt-powered-subwoofer.html


----------



## Selbi

BrotherKathos said:


> I found this one in a quick minute. It would make life much easier for you and should be in your price range.
> http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.ph...tems/sub-800-8-80-watt-powered-subwoofer.html
> 
> or this for more bass at only $30 more
> ...


8'' is plenty, I doubt my neighbours would be too pleased about anything above that. Unfortunately, Dayton isn't available over in Europe, which means I'd have to pay almost the same price in shipping cost and customs that the woofer itself would cost.

Do you happen to know any other models with pass-through RCA?


----------



## BrotherKathos

Selbi said:


> 8'' is plenty, I doubt my neighbours would be too pleased about anything above that. Unfortunately, Dayton isn't available over in Europe, which means I'd have to pay almost the same price in shipping cost and customs that the woofer itself would cost.
> 
> Do you happen to know any other models with pass-through RCA?



You should be able to find this unit for sale somewhere in Europe. Polk audio is a pretty widespread brand. It should provide plenty of rumble.

https://www.polkaudio.com/products/psw108


----------



## Keno18

BrotherKathos said:


> You should be able to find this unit for sale somewhere in Europe. Polk audio is a pretty widespread brand. It should provide plenty of rumble.
> 
> https://www.polkaudio.com/products/psw108


+1


----------



## Logistics

Selbi said:


> The line-outs from my old Fulla 2.



I meant, what are you using as a line-level source; what are you playing music from?  Are you using digital out from your on-board sound?  A soundcard?  USB?

But you could buy something like this:  https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...stem-24-ghz-full-range-wireless-pair--300-594

...and just use it to feed the subwoofer since it's not as critical?


----------



## Selbi

Logistics said:


> I meant, what are you using as a line-level source; what are you playing music from?  Are you using digital out from your on-board sound?  A soundcard?  USB?


Computer USB feeds into my Fulla 2, whose line-outs feeds into the RCAs of my Magni, whose pre-amps feed into my powered speakers. I thought that was obvious when I mentioned my Fulla, unless I'm completely misunderstanding your question.


----------



## Logistics

Well, I thought that the Fulla 2 had a 3.5mm digital coax port, but upon examination of the specs, I was wrong.  Although,  you could have been using analog input.  Heh


----------



## clerkpalmer (Jan 5, 2019)

Hi, I just picked up a Magni 3 to pair with my new not-yet-arrived LCD2C.  I currently have a Topping NX4 DAC/Amp.  I held off on the Modi initially.  I was wondering whether I can use the Topping NX4 as a dedicated DAC and pair it with the Magni 3?  The Topping has a micro USB connection for the DAC.  Can't quite figure out how I would connect it to the Magni to act as a dedicated DAC or if this is even possible.  Thanks.

Edit: is the solution to use a 3.5MM to RCA adapter and connect the line out of the topping to the input on the Magni?


----------



## BrotherKathos

clerkpalmer said:


> Hi, I just picked up a Magni 3 to pair with my new not-yet-arrived LCD2C.  I currently have a Topping NX4 DAC/Amp.  I held off on the Modi initially.  I was wondering whether I can use the Topping NX4 as a dedicated DAC and pair it with the Magni 3?  The Topping has a micro USB connection for the DAC.  Can't quite figure out how I would connect it to the Magni to act as a dedicated DAC or if this is even possible.  Thanks.
> 
> Edit: is the solution to use a 3.5MM to RCA adapter and connect the line out of the topping to the input on the Magni?



Yes, the line out will work.


----------



## Keno18

clerkpalmer said:


> Hi, I just picked up a Magni 3 to pair with my new not-yet-arrived LCD2C.  I currently have a Topping NX4 DAC/Amp.  I held off on the Modi initially.  I was wondering whether I can use the Topping NX4 as a dedicated DAC and pair it with the Magni 3?  The Topping has a micro USB connection for the DAC.  Can't quite figure out how I would connect it to the Magni to act as a dedicated DAC or if this is even possible.  Thanks.
> 
> Edit: is the solution to use a 3.5MM to RCA adapter and connect the line out of the topping to the input on the Magni?


Yes. See how it sounds, you might end up with a dedicated dac anyway.


----------



## clerkpalmer

BrotherKathos said:


> Yes, the line out will work.



Thank you.  Will this result in a double amping of sorts or bypass the amp?  I suppose I should and will just get the Modi eventually.


----------



## Keno18

clerkpalmer said:


> Thank you.  Will this result in a double amping of sorts or bypass the amp?  I suppose I should and will just get the Modi eventually.


If it truly is a line out then it's not double amping. If it's where you plug the headphone in then it's double amping.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Keno18 said:


> If it truly is a line out then it's not double amping. If it's where you plug the headphone in then it's double amping.



Nope - it appears to be a true line out.  Thank you.


----------



## TheRH

Has anyone compared a Magni 3/ Modi 2 , to a Jot? Which sounds better? Noise Floor? Blackness? So on.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Keno18 said:


> If it truly is a line out then it's not double amping. If it's where you plug the headphone in then it's double amping.


Thanks for the help. Just fired up my magni 3 using my topping nx4 as a dedicated DAC. Headphones are nightowls for the time being. Sound is amazing. Big improvement over the topping alone. So, does anyone thing adding a modi in lieu of the topping will provide any meaningful improvement in sq?


----------



## Keno18

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks for the help. Just fired up my magni 3 using my topping nx4 as a dedicated DAC. Headphones are nightowls for the time being. Sound is amazing. Big improvement over the topping alone. So, does anyone thing adding a modi in lieu of the topping will provide any meaningful improvement in sq?


Can't speak to that as I use an ifi nano black label. I can say that I've only heard good things about the modi.


----------



## Robert Padgett

clerkpalmer said:


> Thanks for the help. Just fired up my magni 3 using my topping nx4 as a dedicated DAC. Headphones are nightowls for the time being. Sound is amazing. Big improvement over the topping alone. So, does anyone thing adding a modi in lieu of the topping will provide any meaningful improvement in sq?


I have not done a comparison, but I have found that Schiit gear mates well with other Schiit gear--which makes perfect sense. The same engineering team are working together. My suggestion would be that a Modi would pair better than another DAC, and I have two Schiit stacks--a Modi MB with Vali 2 and a Modi 2 with Magni 3... and both are very good HP rigs.


----------



## Logistics

I've been curious about the sound differences between DAC's, but also between DSP's or other sources.  For instance: I use a Delta 410 as my PC's DSP, output over digital coax to the Modi.  I'm keen on testing a few other sources including, a Sounblaster Extigy and my Harman Kardon DVD-47.

Keep up the good work, fellas!  Its nice to see so many success stories with the Schiit stacks.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Robert Padgett said:


> I have not done a comparison, but I have found that Schiit gear mates well with other Schiit gear--which makes perfect sense. The same engineering team are working together. My suggestion would be that a Modi would pair better than another DAC, and I have two Schiit stacks--a Modi MB with Vali 2 and a Modi 2 with Magni 3... and both are very good HP rigs.



Any thoughts on whether a modi 3 is a big upgrade over a modi 2? Looks like I can find a 2 for 60 or less.


----------



## Robert Padgett

clerkpalmer said:


> Any thoughts on whether a modi 3 is a big upgrade over a modi 2? Looks like I can find a 2 for 60 or less.



The biggest advantage the Modi 3 has over the 2 is the ability to use Toslink and SPDIF coaxial interconnects instead of USB, also the power is split off, to a USB-micro port, which you could use an external power supply--either the Wyrd or the iFi iPower 5v. Whether Mike made any changes in the use of AD4490 Delta/sigma DAC chip is not clearly stated, but the other features are certainly valuable.


----------



## clerkpalmer

Robert Padgett said:


> The biggest advantage the Modi 3 has over the 2 is the ability to use Toslink and SPDIF coaxial interconnects instead of USB, also the power is split off, to a USB-micro port, which you could use an external power supply--either the Wyrd or the iFi iPower 5v. Whether Mike made any changes in the use of AD4490 Delta/sigma DAC chip is not clearly stated, but the other features are certainly valuable.


Yikes. I don't even understand any of that!


----------



## SomeTechNoob

clerkpalmer said:


> Yikes. I don't even understand any of that!



Basically has inputs other than USB.  Can be powered by a seperate USB port.


----------



## Robert Padgett

SomeTechNoob said:


> Basically has inputs other than USB.  Can be powered by a seperate USB port.



Some folks say it sounds better than a Modi 2, I don't know. I think it is a Modi Uber with a new name, but you cannot go wrong with a Modi 2 for $60, they were closing them out at $59.


----------



## SomeTechNoob

There have been more than insignificant numbers of failing Modi 2s over the years.  They are also known to be extremely susceptible to fluctuations in USB power.  The Modi 3 solves a lot of these issues.  IMO spend the extra and get the Modi 3 if you're going to go Schiit.


----------



## 498552

Does the modi 3 match the finish on the magni 3 or do you have to fork out for the modi multibit?

Thanks


----------



## clerkpalmer

Immersed said:


> Does the modi 3 match the finish on the magni 3 or do you have to fork out for the modi multibit?
> 
> Thanks


Pretty sure it does yes.


----------



## JamminVMI

clerkpalmer said:


> Pretty sure it does yes.


Mine are the same


----------



## 498552

JamminVMI said:


> Mine are the same



Thanks.

I didn't want to go to the extra expense or have another power cable with the multibit.


----------



## JamminVMI

JamminVMI said:


> Mine are the same


I can photo for you if you’d like...


----------



## 498552

JamminVMI said:


> I can photo for you if you’d like...



Thanks that's very good of you.


----------



## JamminVMI

Here are four relativeky recent AL topped Schiit small-format boxes... Magni 3, Modi 3, Loki, and Sys. Photo picks up more nuance than my eye, and none have been cleaned. Will try again after erranding (and gentle cleansing of each).


----------



## unknownuser

I'm thinking about adding this to my Dragonfly Red to get almost 100% performance of the HD 6XX but using the search the opinions are so different and I'm confused and rather ask again, is it really a bad idea to get the Magni 3 for the HD 6XX? Also I would use it with M50x too for videos. I'm already happy with the HD 6XX through the Dragonfly Red but maybe with this amp I can get a little more instrument separation.


----------



## Keno18

unknownuser said:


> I'm thinking about adding this to my Dragonfly Red to get almost 100% performance of the HD 6XX but using the search the opinions are so different and I'm confused and rather ask again, is it really a bad idea to get the Magni 3 for the HD 6XX? Also I would use it with M50x too for videos. I'm already happy with the HD 6XX through the Dragonfly Red but maybe with this amp I can get a little more instrument separation.


I don't think chaining the Magni after the DFR is going to yield the results you want. You're double amping the 6XX. I think you'll just be hearing the characteristics of the DFR slightly altered by the Magni. I tried a similar experiment but with the DF black. I wasn't happy with the results. If you can you're better off investing in a dac that has a true line out to feed the Magni.


----------



## Logistics

unknownuser said:


> is it really a bad idea to get the Magni 3 for the HD 6XX?



Everyone's hearing is different, but I found the HD 6XX/Magni 3 to be SUPER bright.


----------



## Rensek (Feb 2, 2019)

unknownuser said:


> I'm thinking about adding this to my Dragonfly Red to get almost 100% performance of the HD 6XX but using the search the opinions are so different and I'm confused and rather ask again, is it really a bad idea to get the Magni 3 for the HD 6XX? Also I would use it with M50x too for videos. I'm already happy with the HD 6XX through the Dragonfly Red but maybe with this amp I can get a little more instrument separation.





Logistics said:


> Everyone's hearing is different, but I found the HD 6XX/Magni 3 to be SUPER bright.



I didn't find the Magni 3 HD6XX combo to be bright at all. I have used Magni with both modi multibit and modi 3 (and a Loki).

When using Loki, and magni 3, and modi 3 I find myself turning left bass control to 11, and I turn both the treble and mid/treble knob to 1 pm. Meaning I turn bass down a tad, and turn treble up a tad.

I don't find myself ever wanting to use Loki with modi multibit.

I think a lot of it depends on your source/dac. I use usb and toslink with modi/Magni.

Before I bought my DAC I used the Magni 3/HD6XX fed by my iPad. That setup got eq'd, via Spotify

The HD6XX are the only headphones ive used in the above comparison.


----------



## unknownuser

Keno18 said:


> I don't think chaining the Magni after the DFR is going to yield the results you want. You're double amping the 6XX. I think you'll just be hearing the characteristics of the DFR slightly altered by the Magni. I tried a similar experiment but with the DF black. I wasn't happy with the results. If you can you're better off investing in a dac that has a true line out to feed the Magni.


I thought that it can be just DAC too, maybe I missed something. 



Logistics said:


> Everyone's hearing is different, but I found the HD 6XX/Magni 3 to be SUPER bright.



With DFR it's not bright to me, even the M50x is rarely bright with it, Magni 3 is supposed to be neutral, how did it end up being bright? Only with Magni 3 you've experienced this brightness?



Rensek said:


> I didn't find the Magni 3 HD6XX combo to be bright at all. I have used Magni with both modi multibit and modi 3 (and a Loki).
> 
> When using Loki, and magni 3, and modi 3 I find myself turning left bass control to 11, and I turn both the treble and mid/treble knob to 1 pm. Meaning I turn bass down a tad, and turn treble a tad.
> 
> I don't find myself ever wanting to use Loki with modi multibit.



So I'm just as confused as before  I thought that it's a good idea to add this to the chain, not really sure about it anymore haha, I don't want tube amp for sure due maintenance and hotness and I'm not audiophile for sure


----------



## Rensek

unknownuser said:


> I thought that it can be just DAC too, maybe I missed something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, we all hear differently, I wholeheartedly recommend the HD6xx Magni 3 combo. But I prefer it on low gain, compared to most people liking high gain.

Many people like HD6XX and fulla 2, some feel fulla 2 can't drive it well enough and recommend Magni 3.

Depends what you like. Do you like a heavy emphasis on lows, mids, highs, or do you like it all balanced. I have only ever heard people say Magni 3 is bright, to them. I can only assume they hear differently, and prefer a more muted/recessed treble then I do. I think Magni 3 HD6XX both sparkles and thumps. 

What do you like? Also as long as you don't buy b stock Schiit has a decent return policy.


----------



## Rensek (Feb 2, 2019)

Yes I'm double posting. I think the dragon fly red would work well to feed the Magni.

I thoroughly enjoyed iPad air 2 into Magni 3 into HD6XX. The dragonfly outputs very low wattage into the 300ohm HD6xx. You are definitely missing something. I know I am when I plug my HD6xx into anything else (iPad, iPhone, pixel 2, etc). Low wattage output devices can't give you full sound quality at low volumes, let alone loud volumes, like a dedicated, wall wart powered headphone amp can. Regardless of manufacturer, & model.

Your experience may vary, whether you like the new sound signature. We all hear differently, your ears might prefer one headphone amp over the other. The right headphone amp should give you a much better experience. Magni 3 worked for me.


----------



## Logistics

unknownuser said:


> Magni 3 is supposed to be neutral, how did it end up being bright?



I don't know how long you've been following the thread, but many people have said the Magni 3 sounds bright.  I chimed in about this, earlier in the thread and came to the conclusion that perhaps, a reason I don't find the Magni 3 bright is because I use MDR-V700's, which are known for having too much emphasis on low end.  My result is that I find the combo very neutral, and for my hearing, absolutely preferable to the HD 6XX, which grated on my hearing due to the unnaturally, bright sound (with my ears, that is).


----------



## unknownuser (Feb 3, 2019)

Rensek said:


> Sorry, we all hear differently, I wholeheartedly recommend the HD6xx Magni 3 combo. But I prefer it on low gain, compared to most people liking high gain.
> 
> Many people like HD6XX and fulla 2, some feel fulla 2 can't drive it well enough and recommend Magni 3.
> 
> ...


Reading threads here at Head-Fi is always confusing, based on the mixed opinions on anything it's hard to make just a shortlist  Sure that everyone's hearing is a bit different but It's still hard to believe that above at level any of these headphones and DAC or Amps are unlistenable to some people...Sure you can prefer different soundsignatures but saying X or Y is earpiercingly bright and things like that it's just unbelievable, if true then I feel sorry for those because then any noise during their day can hurt them. I'm also sometimes sensitive to treble to some extent depending on the track. With my M50x I often felt this with E10k but not with the Dragonfly Red, and the HD 6xx with the DFR sounds good to me and not a single cymbal or similar was sharp to me and I just recently read that the DFR is on the brighter side, I was afraid to pick the HD 6xx due the tons of too harsh, no bass, veiled, for some it's warm etc comments and for me the bass is better than the M50x so this is why I said that I'm not audiophile, I don't know what's what.

So to answer your question, I want neutral as possible but seems that I like brighter sound... Today I checked the HD 6xx thread and just as many people said that the Magni 3 is warm as many said it's bright, few said neutral but no matter how they described it they mostly seem to think that it's a good match with the HD 6xx. Probably for now I stick to the DFR only setup, I'll listen this headphone more with it since it's just 2 weeks old, on week 1 I listened 3 albums per day, on week 2 just 2 albums per day. Later I'll rethink this, not many options in my country so that's why I thought that the Magni 3 is a safe choice, I'll see. Thanks anyway


----------



## Rensek

unknownuser said:


> Reading threads here at Head-Fi is always confusing, based on the mixed opinions on anything it's hard to make just a shortlist  Sure that everyone's hearing is a bit different but It's still hard to believe that above at level any of these headphones and DAC or Amps are unlistenable to some people...Sure you can prefer different soundsignatures but saying X or Y is earpiercingly bright and things like that it's just unbelievable, if true then I feel sorry for those because then any noise during their day can hurt them. I'm also sometimes sensitive to treble to some extent depending on the track. With my M50x I often felt this with E10k but not with the Dragonfly Red, and the HD 6xx with the DFR sounds good to me and not a single cymbal or similar was sharp to me and I just recently read that the DFR is on the brighter side, I was afraid to pick the HD 6xx due the tons of too harsh, no bass, veiled, for some it's warm etc comments and for me the bass is better than the M50x so this is why I said that I'm not audiophile, I don't know what's what.
> 
> So to answer your question, I want neutral as possible but seems that I like brighter sound... Today I checked the HD 6xx thread and just as many people said that the Magni 3 is warm as many said it's bright, few said neutral but no matter how they described it they mostly seem to think that it's a good match with the HD 6xx. Probably for now I stick to the DFR only setup, I'll listen this headphone more with it since it's just 2 weeks old, on week 1 I listened 3 albums per day, on week 2 just 2 albums per day. Later I'll rethink this, not many options in my country so that's why I thought that the Magni 3 is a safe choice, I'll see. Thanks anyway



Yeah its tough, good luck


----------



## clerkpalmer

unknownuser said:


> Reading threads here at Head-Fi is always confusing, based on the mixed opinions on anything it's hard to make just a shortlist  Sure that everyone's hearing is a bit different but It's still hard to believe that above at level any of these headphones and DAC or Amps are unlistenable to some people...Sure you can prefer different soundsignatures but saying X or Y is earpiercingly bright and things like that it's just unbelievable, if true then I feel sorry for those because then any noise during their day can hurt them. I'm also sometimes sensitive to treble to some extent depending on the track. With my M50x I often felt this with E10k but not with the Dragonfly Red, and the HD 6xx with the DFR sounds good to me and not a single cymbal or similar was sharp to me and I just recently read that the DFR is on the brighter side, I was afraid to pick the HD 6xx due the tons of too harsh, no bass, veiled, for some it's warm etc comments and for me the bass is better than the M50x so this is why I said that I'm not audiophile, I don't know what's what.
> 
> So to answer your question, I want neutral as possible but seems that I like brighter sound... Today I checked the HD 6xx thread and just as many people said that the Magni 3 is warm as many said it's bright, few said neutral but no matter how they described it they mostly seem to think that it's a good match with the HD 6xx. Probably for now I stick to the DFR only setup, I'll listen this headphone more with it since it's just 2 weeks old, on week 1 I listened 3 albums per day, on week 2 just 2 albums per day. Later I'll rethink this, not many options in my country so that's why I thought that the Magni 3 is a safe choice, I'll see. Thanks anyway



I think you’d be perfectly happy. I’m running a Magni 3 with my LCD2c and I’ve heard similar complaints about it being too bright. I don’t have any complaints and I haven’t noticed any piercing brightness.  Sound is amazing. With my Loki I actually bump the treble up a bit with certain bands.


----------



## Logistics

unknownuser said:


> Sure that everyone's hearing is a bit different but It's still hard to believe that above at level any of these headphones and DAC or Amps are unlistenable to some people...Sure you can prefer different soundsignatures but saying X or Y is earpiercingly bright and things like that it's just unbelievable, if true then I feel sorry for those because then any noise during their day can hurt them.  So to answer your question, I want neutral as possible but seems that I like brighter sound... Today I checked the HD 6xx thread and just as many people said that the Magni 3 is warm as many said it's bright, few said neutral but no matter how they described it they mostly seem to think that it's a good match with the HD 6xx.



Many peoples hearing is altered due to damage from work or loud concerts--if you've attended one raucous concert, your hearing is permanently damaged.  But the HD 6XX are a very popular headphone based on cost vs. return.  I A/B'd them at Canjam on the same DAC AMP combo to be absolutely sure, and they are good sounding headphones, in fact they sound similar to my Sony's, but for my hearing my Sony's were better because I couldn't stand the bright sound of the HD 6XX's.  It shouldn't be hard to believe that some people find certain combos unlistenable.  Our hearing does vary THAT MUCH.

After looking at the DFR's specs, I would definitely, suggest getting a Magni 3 because it will serve as a great platform to try other headphones in the future.  And will obviously, supply copious amounts of power compared to the DFR by itself, which is important with many headphones.  AND it can be used as a pre-amp for amplifiers.  Lots of bonuses involved.


----------



## Rensek

Logistics said:


> Many peoples hearing is altered due to damage from work or loud concerts--if you've attended one raucous concert, your hearing is permanently damaged.  But the HD 6XX are a very popular headphone based on cost vs. return.  I A/B'd them at Canjam on the same DAC AMP combo to be absolutely sure, and they are good sounding headphones, in fact they sound similar to my Sony's, but for my hearing my Sony's were better because I couldn't stand the bright sound of the HD 6XX's.  It shouldn't be hard to believe that some people find certain combos unlistenable.  Our hearing does vary THAT MUCH.
> 
> After looking at the DFR's specs, I would definitely, suggest getting a Magni 3 because it will serve as a great platform to try other headphones in the future.  And will obviously, supply copious amounts of power compared to the DFR by itself, which is important with many headphones.  AND it can be used as a pre-amp for amplifiers.  Lots of bonuses involved.



It makes a great pre amp for powered monitors. I have a cheap set of Logitec 2.1 computer speakers. The magni and modi combo makes them sound much better then just running off the phone or PC like I did in years past.


----------



## unknownuser (Feb 4, 2019)

Logistics said:


> Many peoples hearing is altered due to damage from work or loud concerts--if you've attended one raucous concert, your hearing is permanently damaged.  But the HD 6XX are a very popular headphone based on cost vs. return.  I A/B'd them at Canjam on the same DAC AMP combo to be absolutely sure, and they are good sounding headphones, in fact they sound similar to my Sony's, but for my hearing my Sony's were better because I couldn't stand the bright sound of the HD 6XX's.  It shouldn't be hard to believe that some people find certain combos unlistenable.  Our hearing does vary THAT MUCH.
> 
> After looking at the DFR's specs, I would definitely, suggest getting a Magni 3 because it will serve as a great platform to try other headphones in the future.  And will obviously, supply copious amounts of power compared to the DFR by itself, which is important with many headphones.  AND it can be used as a pre-amp for amplifiers.  Lots of bonuses involved.


I've been at only few concerts without hearing protection in my early days but now I'm using Etymotic protection and I have a very quiet neighborhood and work place and my hearing is good, actually in real life I'm more sensitive to sharp noises than others I know, I mean even before my first loud environment. But in your case if I understand it correctly the HD 6XX is too bright regardless of the source devices so for me the Magni 3 probably wouldn't change that I don't find it harsh.

Yes, it's a great device that I want to keep, very convenient that it directly connects to USB and no additional cable needed. I just can't find that many options that are available to me, Schiit has good distributors in Europe while others who have options are not and even picking Schiit it's not worth to send it back due the shipping costs so that's why I want it to be good for me, not that it would be hard to sell locally. For the same reason I don't want tube amp, if it requires a new tube then I can only order for absurd shipping costs, no local options to buy new one.


----------



## gtbrown50

I have used a variety of amps, and found the Magni 3 to an accurate amp. That is what I value the most. Amps that have a "sound" to them are to me amps that change the sound like an nonadjustable EQ device. I don't like that.


----------



## ckvp

Anyone use a pre-amp with the Magni 3, or use it as a pre-amp? I find it is too loud for my taste but like its sound, I'm hoping maybe pre-amping it will help.


----------



## audiobomber

ckvp said:


> Anyone use a pre-amp with the Magni 3, or use it as a pre-amp? I find it is too loud for my taste but like its sound, I'm hoping maybe pre-amping it will help.


You would not use a preamp with the Magni 3, because it is a preamp. I have used it as a preamp and it works well as long as you don't need remote level control.

How can the Magni 3 be too loud in low gain with the volume knob turned down? I don't understand.


----------



## ckvp (Feb 7, 2019)

audiobomber said:


> You would not use a preamp with the Magni 3, because it is a preamp. I have used it as a preamp and it works well as long as you don't need remote level control.
> 
> How can the Magni 3 be too loud in low gain with the volume knob turned down? I don't understand.



It is too loud with low-gain for my ears - any lower and I lose the left channel. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about though, pretty new to hifi audio. 

Edit: I see now that pre-amps are for desktop powered monitors generally, I was thinking it was something I could put before the headphone amp as another volume control.


----------



## audiobomber (Feb 7, 2019)

ckvp said:


> I was thinking it was something I could put before the headphone amp as another volume control.


Sounds like your Magni volume pot is not up to scratch. Mine goes very low before losing a channel.
What DAC are you using? If it's a Dragonfly, these are made to attenuate after your DAC and before your amp: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=iematch

Probably the easiest and cheapest solution would be control software that allows level control, e.g foobar2000.


----------



## ckvp (Feb 7, 2019)

audiobomber said:


> Sounds like your Magni volume pot is not up to scratch. Mine goes very low before losing a channel.
> What DAC are you using? If it's a Dragonfly, these are made to attenuate after your DAC and before your amp: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=iematch
> 
> Probably the easiest and cheapest solution would be control software that allows level control, e.g foobar2000.



I use a Topping D10 DAC, but I still may try an attenuator! Thanks!

Edit: How would I use this between the DAC and amp, if my DAC to AMP is through RCA?


----------



## audiobomber (Feb 7, 2019)

ckvp said:


> I use a Topping D10 DAC, but I still may try an attenuator! Thanks!
> 
> Edit: How would I use this between the DAC and amp, if my DAC to AMP is through RCA?



The reason I asked about a Dragonfly is because it has a mini-jack. Your DAC is RCA out, so you'll need two sets of adapters to go from RCA to mini and back to RCA. Along with the attenuator, that's a lot of junk in the signal chain. I wouldn't be happy with it. I made an attenuting RCA interconnect once, but there may be commercial ones available. I would use these if faced with your issue: https://www.amazon.com/Harrison-Labs-Line-Level-Attenuator-x/dp/B0006N41B0

What software are you using?


----------



## ckvp

audiobomber said:


> The reason I asked about a Dragonfly is because it has a mini-jack. Your DAC is RCA out, so you'll need two sets of adapters to go from RCA to mini and back to RCA. Along with the attenuator, that's a lot of junk in the signal chain. I wouldn't be happy with it. I made an attenuting RCA interconnect once, but there may be commercial ones available.
> 
> What software are you using?



I use FooBar and Spotify - through PEACE equalizer which I use as a "Pre-Amp" already, usually -15 db. I think I will skip that bundle of wires haha. I do have a DragonFly Black, but I use it primarily with my IEMs as the Magni 3 is just too strong.


----------



## Rensek

ckvp said:


> I use FooBar and Spotify - through PEACE equalizer which I use as a "Pre-Amp" already, usually -15 db. I think I will skip that bundle of wires haha. I do have a DragonFly Black, but I use it primarily with my IEMs as the Magni 3 is just too strong.



Have you tried lowering the volume of whatever you are using to feed the topping dac?  I use Spotify via phone, laptop and Google chromecast.
Try turning the volume to 75 or 50 percent on your source device.


----------



## Nastrahl

audiobomber said:


> You would not use a preamp with the Magni 3, because it is a preamp. I have used it as a preamp and it works well as long as you don't need remote level control.
> 
> [...]



Do you think it can be a good idea to use the Magni 3 as a preamp for the Vali 2 ?


----------



## audiobomber

Nastrahl said:


> Do you think it can be a good idea to use the Magni 3 as a preamp for the Vali 2 ?


No, I don't think so. You'd be going; preamp (Magni), interconnect, preamp (Vali), headphone amp (Vali). It's redundant.


----------



## Logistics

ckvp said:


> I use it primarily with my IEMs as the Magni 3 is just too strong.



No wonder you have problems; the Magni deals in hundreds to thousands of milliwatts, and your IEM's likely, handle only tens of milliwatts.  Although, I was able to use my Skullcandy ink'd Smokin' buds (IEM's @ 16-Ohms, 70 mW max) but they are so bass-heavy that I couldn't handle listening to them.  They paired well with previous rigs that were lacking in low end because they made up for it.  

Maybe you would be  better suited with some form of cMoy variant.


----------



## audiobomber (Feb 7, 2019)

Logistics said:


> No wonder you have problems; the Magni deals in hundreds to thousands of milliwatts, and your IEM's likely, handle only tens of milliwatts.


That is not likely the issue. I can play my Sennheiser HD1 and Beyerdynamic Byron in-ears at very low volume through the Magni.

I believe ckvp either has an abnormal sensitivity to volume, or his Magni is defective, or something upstream is causing this issue (i.e. PEACE equalizer).


----------



## Logistics

I absolutely, agree that having a channel drop out at any given volume is not normal.  However, his having too much volume to listen at anything, but the lowest setting (where the channel drops out) is a product of mismatched gear, in my opinion.  Your Byron's are in a wonderful position to be destroyed if you ever accidentally, turned you volume yo too high.


----------



## Hofy

Nastrahl said:


> Do you think it can be a good idea to use the Magni 3 as a preamp for the Vali 2 ?



No. Just ditch the Vali2 if you already have the Magni3. Otheerwise look up to the Lyr3


----------



## Nastrahl

Hofy said:


> No. Just ditch the Vali2 if you already have the Magni3. Otheerwise look up to the Lyr3


I have both indeed, and I still don't know what to do with them.

My Vali 2 got a Tung-Sol 6SN7GT New Prod and I still wonder about which I prefer.

On the Vali 2 tube rolling thread I read a majority or people that prefer the Vali 2 with the Tung-Sol tube over the Magni 3.

Why do you think I should get rid of the Vali 2 (and should I go for a Lyr 3) ?


----------



## Robert Padgett

Nastrahl said:


> I have both indeed, and I still don't know what to do with them.
> 
> My Vali 2 got a Tung-Sol 6SN7GT New Prod and I still wonder about which I prefer.
> 
> ...



Tube vs. solid state. I have both and use them separately for different types of Music. I prefer the vintage (made in the US) Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB which are fairly cheap on eBay. 
No reason to ditch either. 
And to upgrade to a Lyr 3, you are comparing a $500 HP amp to a $149 amp. Like a Ford vs. a Lincoln Town Car. Both will transport you, and both come from Ford, everything else is luxury accessories. 
Lyr 3 is one 6SN7 tube, and his some of Jason's Gee-Whiz in the circuits.


----------



## Logistics

When I was testing my headphones against the HD 6XX at CanJam on a Modi/Magni stack, I also compared with the Modi/Vali stack, and the Vali had a more musical (read that: greater emphasis on) midrange, but I prefer a neutral sound so stuck with the Magni.  If you like jazz or operatic music, you'll probably enjoy the Vali.


----------



## JamminVMI (Feb 10, 2019)

Logistics said:


> When I was testing my headphones against the HD 6XX at CanJam on a Modi/Magni stack, I also compared with the Modi/Vali stack, and the Vali had a more musical (read that: greater emphasis on) midrange, but I prefer a neutral sound so stuck with the Magni.  If you like jazz or operatic music, you'll probably enjoy the Vali.


I have both, and prefer the Vali 2 for all music types, fed by Mimby. But all that says is that we’re all different, and we all have preferences. Find what sounds best to you...


----------



## eldus

Well, I still have a recurrent/intermittent hum on all outlets of the house (1950s with 2 year old addition) with the magni 3. My little dot 1+ is just fine. I am curious to see if the JDS Atom (same price) has the same problem at my home.


----------



## lentoviolento

i know that it could sound like blasfemy, but i am using ether 2 with magni 3 atm. and on hi gain i don't feel that autority i hoped since it was supposed to put 3 watt on 16 ohm.
my lake people was 750mw on 16 ohm but it sounded fuller. it is almost like magni 3 is struggling.also it seems to be harsher. maybe i should burn in before getting rid of it


----------



## Logistics (Feb 15, 2019)

lentoviolento said:


> ...


What are you using behind the Magni?  Just curious how strong your source signal is.  Are you using a DAC or are you using analog input directly, from a sound card or other source such as a CD player?


----------



## Hofy

Nastrahl said:


> I have both indeed, and I still don't know what to do with them.
> 
> My Vali 2 got a Tung-Sol 6SN7GT New Prod and I still wonder about which I prefer.
> 
> ...



I guess I should ask you what headphones you are using first.  I only got rid of my Vali2 because it could not properly drive my 600ohm Sennheiser HD540.


----------



## Nastrahl

Hofy said:


> I guess I should ask you what headphones you are using first.  I only got rid of my Vali2 because it could not properly drive my 600ohm Sennheiser HD540.


I'm using a modest BeyerDynamics  DT770 Pro 80 ohm mostly, and a Bowers & Wilkins P7.


----------



## Pan Varox

I see a lot of folks here have DT990 and Magni 3. Can anyone share their impressions?

I have DT990 Pro and was thinking about buying Magni/Modi combo.


----------



## Hofy

Nastrahl said:


> I'm using a modest BeyerDynamics  DT770 Pro 80 ohm mostly, and a Bowers & Wilkins P7.



Then you should be fine with the Vali2.  Get a high quality adapter and start rolling some 6SN7 tubes.  Fantastic sound.


----------



## Robert Padgett (Feb 14, 2019)

JamminVMI said:


> I have both, and prefer the Vali 2 for all music types, fed by Mimby. But all that says is that we’re all different, and we all have preferences. Find what sounds best to you...




Same hear (sic) I also have both the Magni 3 and I love the Vali 2 for rolling. One-hole, one or two tubes--with an adapter is an excellent combo with Mimby fed by Toslink from network Ethernet source.

Here are some 1940s ST (Shoulder Tall) type 6J5 tubes in a dual adapter. It seems that this set-up works quite well with the topology of the Vali 2.
I assume that it would also work on a Lyr 3, but have no experience with that option.


----------



## eldus

I have a little Dot 1+, with upgraded Burson V5i op amp and yugslovia 6hm5 tall bottle tubes. Sounds wonderful. Just wish I had a tube preamp for my speakers.


----------



## ckvp

I think my Magni 3 might have a grounding issue. Lately every time I go to turn it on, static electricity goes from me to my Magni 3 or vice-versa. The wall wart is plugged into a grounded strip, but it is only a 2-prong. I'm in us with the standard US plug. Anything I can do? I'm afraid of hurting the sensitive electronics inside the amp.


----------



## MonoOno

Has anyone's Magni 3 ever started smoking? My buddies Magni 3 started smoking twice. Smoke rose out of it and there was burning smell. Seems to work fine though.


----------



## Keno18

MonoOno said:


> Has anyone's Magni 3 ever started smoking? My buddies Magni 3 started smoking twice. Smoke rose out of it and there was burning smell. Seems to work fine though.


No, never heard of it before. Time to send it to Schiit for a look see.


----------



## MonoOno

I told him to but both times it seem to work with no issues after.


----------



## Keno18

MonoOno said:


> I told him to but both times it seem to work with no issues after.


The Magni is a low voltage device. For it to smoke (especially twice) to me is a sign that whatever it is is not over.


----------



## Hofy

MonoOno said:


> I told him to but both times it seem to work with no issues after.



Send that mother in! Do not take a chance.


----------



## RickB

Does anybody else's Magni have play in the volume knob? This is my second recent one, the first one also had play in the knob plus a scratch so I exchanged it. Would be a pain to exchange it again (I'm in Florida, opposite side of the country from Schiit), so I'm inclined to live with it, I guess. It's not that loose, I don't notice it most times when adjusting the volume.


----------



## Keno18

RickB said:


> Does anybody else's Magni have play in the volume knob? This is my second recent one, the first one also had play in the knob plus a scratch so I exchanged it. Would be a pain to exchange it again (I'm in Florida, opposite side of the country from Schiit), so I'm inclined to live with it, I guess. It's not that loose, I don't notice it most times when adjusting the volume.


Just checked mine, no play. Return it if it bothers you, you are entitled to a perfect unit.


----------



## audiobomber (Feb 17, 2019)

RickB said:


> Does anybody else's Magni have play in the volume knob? This is my second recent one, the first one also had play in the knob plus a scratch so I exchanged it. Would be a pain to exchange it again (I'm in Florida, opposite side of the country from Schiit), so I'm inclined to live with it, I guess. It's not that loose, I don't notice it most times when adjusting the volume.


My volume pot has a little wiggle and the right channel scratches when I rotate the knob. I am not going to bother sending it back. Seems a common problem with the Magni, haven't heard of it causing a failure?


----------



## Hofy

My Magni3 Volume pot is tight. No play at all.


----------



## RickB

Got a response from Schiit. They are sending me a replacement volume knob to try. They told me, though, that they tested the knob on the first Magni I sent back and they considered it within spec and not defective. So maybe I'm being too picky. 

They are still sending me a replacement knob anyway, so that's good customer service.


----------



## unknownuser (Feb 19, 2019)

MonoOno said:


> Has anyone's Magni 3 ever started smoking? My buddies Magni 3 started smoking twice. Smoke rose out of it and there was burning smell. Seems to work fine though.


Mine is just few days old but has a little bit of smell from the left side (Capacitor smell?) but not that warm to touch. back of the unit rattles a very bit if I shake it, clicks after turning on earlier than the mentioned 15-20 sec in the manual (or I misunderstood). I guess it's fine, I might ask them if the smell and rattle is ok or not.

I'm using it with low gain and volume between 8 and 9 o'clock, it's on for like 15 hours daily so I only turn it off for the night.

I think that smoking is no go and dangerous, your buddy should contact the manufacturer


----------



## Veldrid

RickB said:


> Got a response from Schiit. They are sending me a replacement volume knob to try. They told me, though, that they tested the knob on the first Magni I sent back and they considered it within spec and not defective. So maybe I'm being too picky.
> 
> They are still sending me a replacement knob anyway, so that's good customer service.



Friend of mine thought the same thing when he got his. When I tried his I thought it was fine. I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## lentoviolento

Logistics said:


> What are you using behind the Magni?  Just curious how strong your source signal is.  Are you using a DAC or are you using analog input directly, from a sound card or other source such as a CD player?



i am using a modi3. however, it wasn't so bad after all. i sold ether2 anyway. now i am using zmf aeolus. it sounds gorgeous for being a convenient solution


----------



## TJ Max (Feb 27, 2019)

Hello all
I recently got a Magni 3 about 2 weeks ago. Everything appeared fine up until today.
First the volume pot has become stiffer between 1 and 5 o'clock.
The second issue is a channel imbalance that I swear I never noticed until today. I don't think it was there before today because its quit distinctive.
It appears the left channel is louder than the right channel. It appear to be through out the entire volume range in both Low and High gain.
I was trying to test it the best I could  wit ha sound level tester in between 2 pairs of earphones, I was running different frequeny tones through it trying to capture the differences between channels. But the results are weird. The imbalance is all over the place  at  63hz-500hz  the imbalance varies from 0.6-1.5 db  and from 1Kz to 2khz theres 0.2-1.5db difference.
With music with punchy bass its real obvious as I can physically feel the vibration of the left speaker on my left ear when the volume is maxed. But nothing on the right side.

Again this all just started, as I can remember several listening sessions I've had earlier in the week and this problem didn't exist.
Has anyone else noticed this?


----------



## Logistics

I'm starting to feel that Schiit would do well to offer the option of a stepped attenuator for those who don't want to worry about potentiometer issues.


----------



## TJ Max

Logistics said:


> I'm starting to feel that Schiit would do well to offer the option of a stepped attenuator for those who don't want to worry about potentiometer issues.



I've arranged for a replacement from Schiit. But to be honest I think I'm going to stick with my Teac HA-501 I reconnected it last night and find its far more nuetral and detailed than the Magni, and actually sounds great with the Modi 3.. So if anyone is looking for a Magni 3...


----------



## Logistics

TJ Max said:


> My Teac HA-501 is far more nuetral and detailed than the Magni.



I hope so, considering it costs about four times as much.


----------



## eldus

The JDS Atom is looking real nice ...


----------



## clerkpalmer

eldus said:


> The JDS Atom is looking real nice ...



It does but I’m having a hard time believing my old ears will hear a big difference to justify the swap. 

What would be a meaningful upgrade to the magni3 and how much would I have to spend to get it?  Using LCD2C now.


----------



## yvv

clerkpalmer said:


> It does but I’m having a hard time believing my old ears will hear a big difference to justify the swap.
> 
> What would be a meaningful upgrade to the magni3 and how much would I have to spend to get it?  Using LCD2C now.



Good question. I've just sold the Jotunheim because I like the Magni 3 more with the HD650 and the Aeon Closed.


----------



## 441879 (Mar 9, 2019)

clerkpalmer said:


> It does but I’m having a hard time believing my old ears will hear a big difference to justify the swap.
> 
> What would be a meaningful upgrade to the magni3 and how much would I have to spend to get it?  Using LCD2C now.



I’m an objectivist in that I accept the research which says people can’t generally tell one amp from another of similar power in blind testing. I also have 53 year old ears. That said, I definitely think my Lyr 3 sounds better than my Magni 3 with my Aeon Flow closed and Aeon Flow open headphones. The difference isn’t as noticable on my 400i or Elex headphones. I don’t know if I’m fooling myself or if the difference is real, but I can tell you the nicer amp does increase my enjoyment. The price difference between the Lyr 3 and the Magni 3 was about $400- a non- trivial amount.


----------



## audiobomber

audiobomber said:


> My volume pot has a little wiggle and the right channel scratches when I rotate the knob. I am not going to bother sending it back. Seems a common problem with the Magni, haven't heard of it causing a failure?


The scratch was getting worse, so I rotated the volume knob quickly several times back and forth. That fixed it, no more ugly sound when it's rotated now.


----------



## yvv

audiobomber said:


> The scratch was getting worse, so I rotated the volume knob quickly several times back and forth. That fixed it, no more ugly sound when it's rotated now.



Sounds like oxidation of the plates inside the pot. How old is your Magni?


----------



## audiobomber

yvv said:


> Sounds like oxidation of the plates inside the pot. How old is your Magni?


Purchased new in July. I'm thinking dust in the pot?


----------



## yvv

audiobomber said:


> Purchased new in July. I'm thinking dust in the pot?



Don't think so. A bad batch of post is more likely. Mine is from August and completely silent. I would take it to Schiit while it's still under warranty.


----------



## Deaj

I have a Magni 3 arriving tomorrow. I sold my Jotunheim a short while back when my Lyr 3 arrived. I considered keeping it but with the Lyr 3, Saga, Eitr's, Modi Multibit, Modi 3, LOKI Mini, and modded SYS (level pot removed and replaced with soldered wire jumpers making it strictly a no-load A/B switcher - in my case used to split one of the Saga's outputs to two headphone amps - Lyr 3 and Magni 3) I did't really have room for the Jotunheim.

The Magni 3, though, fits in nicely and, should provide me with a listening experience similar to the Jotunheim - this is something I will definitely use with my custom Grado's on occasion - I really liked the Grado's through the Jot.

Time will tell. Looking forward to giving the Magni 3 a thorough listen!


----------



## yvv

Deaj said:


> I have a Magni 3 arriving tomorrow. I sold my Jotunheim a short while back when my Lyr 3 arrived. I considered keeping it but with the Lyr 3, Saga, Eitr's, Modi Multibit, Modi 3, LOKI Mini, and modded SYS (level pot removed and replaced with soldered wire jumpers making it strictly a no-load A/B switcher - in my case used to split one of the Saga's outputs to two headphone amps - Lyr 3 and Magni 3) I did't really have room for the Jotunheim.
> 
> The Magni 3, though, fits in nicely and, should provide me with a listening experience similar to the Jotunheim - this is something I will definitely use with my custom Grado's on occasion - I really liked the Grado's through the Jot.
> 
> Time will tell. Looking forward to giving the Magni 3 a thorough listen!



I think you won't be disappointed. I've sold my Jot because I liked the Magni more.


----------



## RickB

yvv said:


> I think you won't be disappointed. I've sold my Jot because I liked the Magni more.



Same here. The Magni has a sweet tone and laid-back quality whereas the Jot is punchy and edgy.


----------



## Assimilator702

MonoOno said:


> I told him to but both times it seem to work with no issues after.



Yeah well one day VERY SOON your buddies amp will let out all the magic smoke and be finished..... maybe even start a fire. Tell  him to contact Schiit for a replacement while he still can.


----------



## Assimilator702

Logistics said:


> No wonder you have problems; the Magni deals in hundreds to thousands of milliwatts, and your IEM's likely, handle only tens of milliwatts.  Although, I was able to use my Skullcandy ink'd Smokin' buds (IEM's @ 16-Ohms, 70 mW max) but they are so bass-heavy that I couldn't handle listening to them.  They paired well with previous rigs that were lacking in low end because they made up for it.
> 
> Maybe you would be  better suited with some form of cMoy variant.


I can use my Magni 3 with any of my iems with no issues. He more than likely has his levels up in his EQ program.


----------



## Deaj

yvv said:


> I think you won't be disappointed. I've sold my Jot because I liked the Magni more.





RickB said:


> Same here. The Magni has a sweet tone and laid-back quality whereas the Jot is punchy and edgy.



I should note that the mid-fi tier is as high as I care to reach in audio gear for the purpose of enjoying music. I'm 52 and my ears are aging, and I have a bit of tinnitus to boot. I hear better than I have a right to given how careless I have been with regards to hearing protection in the past.  

Well, I've had around 5 hours listening time with the Magni 3 today. 
_* Signal chain: Windows 10 / Foobar2000 bit perfect -> EITR -> Modi 3 -> Saga (passive, then active buffer w/ '56 Foton ribbed plate 6H8S) -> Loki Mini EQ (mostly bypassed, other than to experiment for a few moments) -> Magni 3 (low gain) -> beyerdynamic Amiron home and beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro._ 

So far I can say without hesitation that I am not at all disappointed. By memory the Magni 3 is similar to the Jotunheim, only with a more pleasant treble. I was never bothered by the Jotunheim's treble but it exhibited some of what I've to come to understand as 'glare'. I also remember the Jotunheim as being a bit brighter than what I'm hearing in the Magni 3. The Magni 3 just seems a bit more refined that what I remember of the Jotunheim. I am going off memory of an amp I haven't heard in a month or so but I became very familiar with the Jot as it was my only headphone amp for a couple of years and so I feel comfortable trusting my memory. I can't say that I'm hearing anything stand out about the Magni 3 so far - that is to say that it seems to be fairly neutral. I'm not hearing as warm, though I imagine side-by-side with a Jot I might hear this differently. I was hoping that the Magni 3 would sound as I've described so I'm really pleased in this regard.

I played around with a few variables today while listening. I listened with a beyer DT 1990 Pro headphone for a bit, I listened for a bit using the Modi Multibit DAC, and I played with EQ a bit as well - all with pleasing results. I'd have to spend some time with each though to provide any sort of impressions or comparisons.

For $99 plus shipping the Magni 3 is a steal.


----------



## yvv

Deaj said:


> I should note that the mid-fi tier is as high as I care to reach in audio gear for the purpose of enjoying music. I'm 52 and my ears are aging, and I have a bit of tinnitus to boot. I hear better than I have a right to given how careless I have been with regards to hearing protection in the past.
> 
> Well, I've had around 5 hours listening time with the Magni 3 today.
> _* Signal chain: Windows 10 / Foobar2000 bit perfect -> EITR -> Modi 3 -> Saga (passive, then active buffer w/ '56 Foton ribbed plate 6H8S) -> Loki Mini EQ (mostly bypassed, other than to experiment for a few moments) -> Magni 3 (low gain) -> beyerdynamic Amiron home and beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro._
> ...



I did a side-by-side comparison before selling the Jot and it mirrored your impressions to a point. That slightly steely timbre and glare from the Jot gives the illusion of better resolution but I found that the Magni was as resolving but in a more relaxed, tube-like manner.


----------



## audiobomber

Deaj said:


> I should note that the mid-fi tier is as high as I care to reach in audio gear for the purpose of enjoying music. I'm 52 and my ears are aging, and I have a bit of tinnitus to boot. I hear better than I have a right to given how careless I have been with regards to hearing protection in the past.
> 
> Well, I've had around 5 hours listening time with the Magni 3 today.
> _* Signal chain: Windows 10 / Foobar2000 bit perfect -> EITR -> Modi 3 -> Saga (passive, then active buffer w/ '56 Foton ribbed plate 6H8S) -> Loki Mini EQ (mostly bypassed, other than to experiment for a few moments) -> Magni 3 (low gain) -> beyerdynamic Amiron home and beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro_.


Have you tried without the Saga and Loki? 

Anything in the playback chain can decrease transparency. Your system has two preamps. I don't see the purpose of the Saga ahead of the Magni, which already contains an integrated buffered line stage. 

The Loki for me would be redundant with your headphones (I use the DT 1990 with A pads and auditioned the Amiron at home for a couple of weeks). It's worth cross-checking whether the EQ is a net benefit.


----------



## Deaj

Save for a brief listen with the Saga's active buffer it remained in passive mode with the stepped attenuator all the way up. The LOKI was also bypassed for the vast majority of my listening. The LOKI's has a true hard-wire bypass so it's of no consequence in that state.

I've done A/B listening with a simple passive stereo RCA loop switch that I built for just this sort of thing if the Saga in passive mode and LOKI in bypass mode are impacting the signal in to the amp it's not audible.


----------



## Hofy

What are everyones thoughts on Lyr3 vs Magni3?


----------



## JamminVMI (Mar 17, 2019)

Hofy said:


> What are everyones thoughts on Lyr3 vs Magni3?


I have both, and to my ears there’s a big difference in soundstage, overall detail, and (obviously),power. And on to of that, you can roll to find the sound you prefer (and neither of the “stock” tube choices are slouches, either.

Was listening to the soundtrack from When Marnie Was Here (Priscilla Ahn) today, and L3 is so revealing when it comes to textured vocals!


----------



## Robert Padgett

TJ Max said:


> Hello all
> I recently got a Magni 3 about 2 weeks ago. Everything appeared fine up until today.
> First the volume pot has become stiffer between 1 and 5 o'clock.
> The second issue is a channel imbalance that I swear I never noticed until today. I don't think it was there before today because its quit distinctive.
> ...



I would be asking for an RMA and send it in for warranty repair/or replacement. Nothing you described would be normal operation. They are sealed pots, so the issues you describe sound like a bad part slipped past the QC folks.


----------



## Deaj

Robert Padgett said:


> I would be asking for an RMA and send it in for warranty repair/or replacement. Nothing you described would be normal operation. They are sealed pots, so the issues you describe sound like a bad part slipped past the QC folks.



This. ^  Given the described symptoms it sounds like the volume potentiometer will need to be replaced.


----------



## TJ Max

Robert Padgett said:


> I would be asking for an RMA and send it in for warranty repair/or replacement. Nothing you described would be normal operation. They are sealed pots, so the issues you describe sound like a bad part slipped past the QC folks.



Oh I already received the replacement from Schiit.  However I haven't been using it. Theres this weird distortion that appears in both older and the replacement  Magni 3 in the upper midrange when the volume is around 3 o'clock and higher that makes the sound harsh and fatiguing. I ordered the JDS Labs Atom around the same time I was messing with the Magni 3 and I just think it's a cleaner sounding amp and I've been using it more often.


----------



## Robert Padgett

TJ Max said:


> Oh I already received the replacement from Schiit.  However I haven't been using it. Theres this weird distortion that appears in both older and the replacement  Magni 3 in the upper midrange when the volume is around 3 o'clock and higher that makes the sound harsh and fatiguing. I ordered the JDS Labs Atom around the same time I was messing with the Magni 3 and I just think it's a cleaner sounding amp and I've been using it more often.


Cool. I am glad you found a solution. That's the fun of this hobby.


----------



## echoplex

TJ Max said:


> Oh I already received the replacement from Schiit.  However I haven't been using it. Theres this weird distortion that appears in both older and the replacement  Magni 3 in the upper midrange when the volume is around 3 o'clock and higher that makes the sound harsh and fatiguing. I ordered the JDS Labs Atom around the same time I was messing with the Magni 3 and I just think it's a cleaner sounding amp and I've been using it more often.



How does the JDS Atom compare with the Magni 3 in terms of power?  Have you tried both with hardto drive 600 ohm cans?

I found that the Monoprice Liquid Spark drives these kinds of cans much better than the Magni 3 (which was disappointing).


----------



## TJ Max

echoplex said:


> How does the JDS Atom compare with the Magni 3 in terms of power?  Have you tried both with hardto drive 600 ohm cans?
> 
> I found that the Monoprice Liquid Spark drives these kinds of cans much better than the Magni 3 (which was disappointing).



My primary headphones are the Sony MDR-Z7M2 (52  ohm) and Beyerdynamic DT-1770 pro (250ohm) for my desktop setup.
When it comes to raw power the Magni seems to have more, as it is the loudest at %50, in low gain. The Atom needs an additional %20 to reach the same level. However the Atom has a much louder High gain stage than the Magni 3. So they are about equal depending on how you manage the amps. And as I said earlier The Magni has a problem at volumes above %75. The Atom is more consistent in performance, I also feel that the bass is tighter and more detailed than the Magni. 
The only 600 ohm headphone I have is the Beyerdynamic T1 2nd gen. But I don't use it for my desktop setup. I have my main set up with larger amps like like Beyerdynamic A2 and Teac HA-501 for those.


----------



## echoplex

TJ Max said:


> My primary headphones are the Sony MDR-Z7M2 (52  ohm) and Beyerdynamic DT-1770 pro (250ohm) for my desktop setup.
> When it comes to raw power the Magni seems to have more, as it is the loudest at %50, in low gain. The Atom needs an additional %20 to reach the same level. However the Atom has a much louder High gain stage than the Magni 3. So they are about equal depending on how you manage the amps. And as I said earlier The Magni has a problem at volumes above %75. The Atom is more consistent in performance, I also feel that the bass is tighter and more detailed than the Magni.
> The only 600 ohm headphone I have is the Beyerdynamic T1 2nd gen. But I don't use it for my desktop setup. I have my main set up with larger amps like like Beyerdynamic A2 and Teac HA-501 for those.



That sounds consistent with what I found with the Magni 3 at full volume—plus it just ran out of gas with respect to volume.  It just couldn’t handle the Beyerdynamic DT-880s @ 600 ohms and the AKG 240DFs @ 600 ohms.

If you’ve got them handy, I’d really like to know your impressions of the T1s driven by the Atom and the Magni 3.  I Imagine others with demands cans would benefit as well.


----------



## joeexp (Mar 18, 2019)

TJ Max said:


> My primary headphones are the Sony MDR-Z7M2 (52  ohm) and Beyerdynamic DT-1770 pro (250ohm) for my desktop setup.
> When it comes to raw power the Magni seems to have more, as it is the loudest at %50, in low gain. The Atom needs an additional %20 to reach the same level. However the Atom has a much louder High gain stage than the Magni 3. So they are about equal depending on how you manage the amps. And as I said earlier The Magni has a problem at volumes above %75. The Atom is more consistent in performance, I also feel that the bass is tighter and more detailed than the Magni.
> The only 600 ohm headphone I have is the Beyerdynamic T1 2nd gen. But I don't use it for my desktop setup. I have my main set up with larger amps like like Beyerdynamic A2 and Teac HA-501 for those.




Schiit Magni
Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 3W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 2W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.3W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 430mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 230mW RMS per channel
Output Impedance: Less than 0.3 ohms at either gain

JDS ATOM
Max Output @ 600Ω, 125mW (8.68 VRMS)
Max Output @ 150Ω, 502 mW (8.66 VRMS)
Max Output @ 32Ω, 1 Watt (5.66 VRMS)
Output Impedance     0.1 Ω


----------



## GearMe

echoplex said:


> That sounds consistent with what I found with the Magni 3 at full volume—plus it just ran out of gas with respect to volume.  It just couldn’t handle the Beyerdynamic DT-880s @ 600 ohms and the AKG 240DFs @ 600 ohms.
> 
> If you’ve got them handy, I’d really like to know your impressions of the T1s driven by the Atom and the Magni 3.  I Imagine others with demands cans would benefit as well.



Or....you could run the high-impedance Senns, Beyers, etc. on an OTL amp and your other cans off the SS amp.  I do this with my Hi-Z Senns & Beyers on a Valhalla 2 and run the others off of a Magni 3, a Liquid Spark or an iCan SE depending on where I am in our house.


----------



## tafens

Hofy said:


> What are everyones thoughts on Lyr3 vs Magni3?



I recently upgraded to the Lyr3 (with multibit card and the Russian new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB) from the Magni3+Modi multibit (still keeping them). 

In comparison, listening with HD6XX, the Lyr3 felt more musical and cleaner with more depth, texture, bass, and impact, while the Magni3 came out flatter and sometimes more harsh sounding in comparison.

I’m still keeping the Magni3, it’s still a very good amp, especially for the price.


----------



## yvv

tafens said:


> I recently upgraded to the Lyr3 (with multibit card and the Russian new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB) from the Magni3+Modi multibit (still keeping them).
> 
> In comparison, listening with HD6XX, the Lyr3 felt more musical and cleaner with more depth, texture, bass, and impact, while the Magni3 came out flatter and sometimes more harsh sounding in comparison.
> 
> I’m still keeping the Magni3, it’s still a very good amp, especially for the price.



I think the price/performance ratio of the Magni 3 is  exceptionally high so it would hardly make any sense to sell it. IMO.


----------



## Robert Padgett

tafens said:


> I recently upgraded to the Lyr3 (with multibit card and the Russian new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB) from the Magni3+Modi multibit (still keeping them).
> 
> In comparison, listening with HD6XX, the Lyr3 felt more musical and cleaner with more depth, texture, bass, and impact, while the Magni3 came out flatter and sometimes more harsh sounding in comparison.
> 
> I’m still keeping the Magni3, it’s still a very good amp, especially for the price.


Two variables in play...the Tube buffer of the Lyr3, and the gee-whiz that Jason built in to make it a $500 piece of Schiit instead of a $99 piece of Schiit ... welcome to tubes. The Magni sounds like a solid-state amplifier, and tubes sound different.


----------



## tamleo

tafens said:


> I recently upgraded to the Lyr3 (with multibit card and the Russian new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB) from the Magni3+Modi multibit (still keeping them).
> 
> In comparison, listening with HD6XX, the Lyr3 felt more musical and cleaner with more depth, texture, bass, and impact, while the Magni3 came out flatter and sometimes more harsh sounding in comparison.
> 
> I’m still keeping the Magni3, it’s still a very good amp, especially for the price.


How about the detail level of the Lyr3 compared to the Magni3? Thanks


----------



## tamleo

Deaj said:


> I have a Magni 3 arriving tomorrow. I sold my Jotunheim a short while back when my Lyr 3 arrived. I considered keeping it but with the Lyr 3, Saga, Eitr's, Modi Multibit, Modi 3, LOKI Mini, and modded SYS (level pot removed and replaced with soldered wire jumpers making it strictly a no-load A/B switcher - in my case used to split one of the Saga's outputs to two headphone amps - Lyr 3 and Magni 3) I did't really have room for the Jotunheim.
> 
> The Magni 3, though, fits in nicely and, should provide me with a listening experience similar to the Jotunheim - this is something I will definitely use with my custom Grado's on occasion - I really liked the Grado's through the Jot.
> 
> Time will tell. Looking forward to giving the Magni 3 a thorough listen!


How about the detail level on the Lyr3 compared to the Jot? Thanks


----------



## tafens

tamleo said:


> How about the detail level of the Lyr3 compared to the Magni3? Thanks



The Lyr3 is ahead in the details as well.
However, as said before, Magni3 is still a very good amp and no slouch in any regard. Had I not known the price point of the Magni3 I would have guessed it being closer to half the price of the Lyr3 than the fifth that is is!


----------



## Deaj

tamleo said:


> How about the detail level on the Lyr3 compared to the Jot? Thanks



I don't have a Jotunheim any longer so I can't compare them directly now. 

I did compare them when the Lyr 3 arrived and concluded that the two are similar on detail retrieval. Tonality, imaging, soundstage - these are areas where I feel the Lyr 3 is the better amp. The Jotunheim's treble could be a bit fatiguing after a couple of hours. I haven't found this to be an issue with the Lyr 3. Finally, the Lyr 3's sound can be tailored to some degree via tube rolling, and there are enough reasonably priced tube choices that on not need break the bank to do so.

The only reason I would opt for the Jotunheim is if I had a practical use for the balanced headphone out. I no longer own any headphones with balanced cable so the Lyr 3 is the better amp for my ears.


----------



## JamminVMI

Deaj said:


> I don't have a Jotunheim any longer so I can't compare them directly now.
> 
> I did compare them when the Lyr 3 arrived and concluded that the two are similar on detail retrieval. Tonality, imaging, soundstage - these are areas where I feel the Lyr 3 is the better amp. The Jotunheim's treble could be a bit fatiguing after a couple of hours. I haven't found this to be an issue with the Lyr 3. Finally, the Lyr 3's sound can be tailored to some degree via tube rolling, and there are enough reasonably priced tube choices that on not need break the bank to do so.
> 
> The only reason I would opt for the Jotunheim is if I had a practical use for the balanced headphone out. I no longer own any headphones with balanced cable so the Lyr 3 is the better amp for my ears.


Treble on the Hot is what pushed me to Lyr 3, and I’m single-ended...


----------



## fernandocuello

Would the Magni 3 be enough to drive something like the HE560? Those headphones are not sensitive at all...


----------



## Logistics

Shouldn't planars be easier to drive?  Either way, they're only 45-Ohm so your power output on the Magni will be theoretically, well over 1W!  HiFiMan doesnt like to or doesn't bother posting power handling, but I stopped paying attention to people's ideas about approximating headphone requirements based on sensitivity, when my 107 db/mW cans (contrary to many peoples' opinions)  still didn't wake up without several hundred milliwatts, and even better when well over 1W.


----------



## Keno18

Just spent a few hours comparing the Vali 2 /Tung-Sol 6sn7gt mouse ears combination with an FX Audio Tube 01 preamp/GE JAN 5654W tubes/Magni 3. The result IMO is the two are almost identical in sound quality which suprised the heck out of me. And I really like the Vali combo.


----------



## Logistics

Keno18 said:


> Just spent a few hours comparing the Vali 2 /Tung-Sol 6sn7gt mouse ears combination with an FX Audio Tube 01 preamp/GE JAN 5654W tubes/Magni 3. The result IMO is the two are almost identical in sound quality which suprised the heck out of me. And I really like the Vali combo.



Not that your result should be a surprise, but it does cause one to wonder, what is your source?  Since you make no mention of a DAC, I assume you're using an analog-out source.


----------



## Keno18

Logistics said:


> Not that your result should be a surprise, but it does cause one to wonder, what is your source?  Since you make no mention of a DAC, I assume you're using an analog-out source.


The chain is a laptop running Foobar to an ifi nano black label dac,  line out to a y adapter to the Vali and FX/Magni.


----------



## Logistics

Keno18 said:


> The chain is a laptop running Foobar to an ifi nano black label dac,  line out to a y adapter to the Vali and FX/Magni.



That's a nice piece--very cool!


----------



## Keno18

Logistics said:


> That's a nice piece--very cool!


Thank you.


----------



## exdmd

I run my IEMs using the SE outputs of my Yggy > Sys > Loki > Magni 3 or Vali 2. I have an Amperex 6DJ8 in the Vali 2. The Magni 3 is a great amp for the price but it presents a flat sound stage: no depth compared to the Vali 2. Can't use the IEMs off my Kenzie because the output impedance is too high. I keep the Magni 3 around as a spare but much prefer the Vali 2. With a better tube it is twice the price of the Magni 3 but a significant step up in sound quality in my system.


----------



## tamleo

exdmd said:


> I run my IEMs using the SE outputs of my Yggy > Sys > Loki > Magni 3 or Vali 2. I have an Amperex 6DJ8 in the Vali 2. The Magni 3 is a great amp for the price but it presents a flat sound stage: no depth compared to the Vali 2. Can't use the IEMs off my Kenzie because the output impedance is too high. I keep the Magni 3 around as a spare but much prefer the Vali 2. With a better tube it is twice the price of the Magni 3 but a significant step up in sound quality in my system.


Hi,
$2000 dac paired with $100 amplifiers? May I ask if they are your main amps? I guess they are not. Thanks


----------



## JamminVMI

tamleo said:


> Hi,
> $2000 dac paired with $100 amplifiers? May I ask if they are your main amps? I guess they are not. Thanks


Look at his sig. That Kenzie tube amp from ampsandsound looks (and probably sounds) sweet! But I’m in complete agreement with his Vali assessment. Love that little amp!


----------



## GearMe

tamleo said:


> Hi,
> $2000 dac paired with $100 amplifiers? May I ask if they are your main amps? I guess they are not. Thanks



Of course not!  That is _clearly _not allowed in the Head-Fi TOS  



Jason Stoddard said:


> Now that we have our own CNC and 3D printer (Tormach 440 and Formlabs Form 2, in case you're interested), I'm tempted to make a one-off beautiful NC-milled-from-a-solid-block-of-aluminum style chassis, hang a couple of tubes out the top and light them up (just the heaters), and stick a Magni 3 inside. Then cart it around to shows to display our "new upscale design philosophy," listen intently as people proclaim it far superior to anything we've ever made...then flip it over and show them the Magni 3 guts.
> 
> Of course, this is an excellent metaphor for (some of) the ultra-high-end, so it may be a little too on-point. So I probably won't do it...



Man...I'd love to see Jason do this


----------



## exdmd

tamleo said:


> Hi,
> $2000 dac paired with $100 amplifiers? May I ask if they are your main amps? I guess they are not. Thanks



The output impedance of my main Kenzie amp is 32 Ohms chosen by Jason at ampsandsound to work best with my 300 Ohm HD800S phones. I can run my 14 Ohm IEMs from the Kenzie but the frequency response is off due to the impedance mismatch, highs are subdued and bass is tubby. 

You need an amp with an output impedance of only a few Ohms to properly drive inner ear monitors, hence the Vali 2 dedicated to my IEMs. @JamminVMI is right the Kenzie is a great tube amp but it was designed for higher impedance dynamic phones. I love IEMs when I have to get work done and block out noisy neighbours. Using a Yggy with a Vali 2 may seem overkill but the quality of the DAC easily lets me hear the differences in amps.


----------



## Logistics

Considered trying an adapter with resistors, just for the sake of experimentation?


----------



## exdmd

Logistics said:


> Considered trying an adapter with resistors, just for the sake of experimentation?



Nope the Kenzie was never intended to drive low impedance phones from the 32 Ohm tap on the output transformer. Both the Magni 3 and Vali 2 are very capable with IEMS on low gain setting. I think you get best sound quality using the amp as intended by the designer.


----------



## Robert Padgett

volly said:


> Haha, Schiit's gettin' crazy!
> 
> I wonder if Schiit will one day release a all-in-one unit or will we be forever building up and up our schiit stack! _LOL _


Gosh I sure hope not. The upgradability of components as they improve in the lower price range which Schiit dominates is what sets them apart from the "system in a box". I think they could expand their accessory line to include either the plastic blocks for stacking the Modi-form factor units, or a beautiful silver-tone and clear "rack"


----------



## Logistics

exdmd said:


> I think you get best sound quality using the amp as intended by the designer.



I absolutely, agree... to a degree.


----------



## BubbaJay

After using the Vali 2 that I got a few weeks ago I went back to the Magni3 and it makes me appreciate even more.  While the Vali is nice the main headphones I use I feel still sound better on the Magni.  My LCD-2C and Nightowl sound better with the Magni since they sound clearer with more detail than on the Vali.  I do like the Elear more with the Vali but they have a bit more detail on the Magni.  I like the Vali but the Magni is still going to be my work horse.


----------



## Deaj

Hofy said:


> What are everyones thoughts on Lyr3 vs Magni3?





JamminVMI said:


> I have both, and to my ears there’s a big difference in soundstage, overall detail, and (obviously),power. And on to of that, you can roll to find the sound you prefer (and neither of the “stock” tube choices are slouches, either.
> 
> Was listening to the soundtrack from When Marnie Was Here (Priscilla Ahn) today, and L3 is so revealing when it comes to textured vocals!



I concur. I would add that the Magni 3 is much like having a mini Jotunheim with the treble issues (perceived by some folks) resolved. It's a great sounding little Solid State headamp that may suffer in direct comparison with the Lyr 3 but stands on its own strengths just the same. It sounds far better than it has a right to at its price point. I listen using the Magni 3 occasionally just for a change of pace (though admittedly tube rolling with the Lyr 3 is a more satisfying way to change things up). As good as the Lyr 3 is (especially with a few select tubes) I still enjoy listening with the Magni 3.


----------



## RickB

We haven't had a complaint in awhile from someone about how they can't get enough volume out of the Magni 3. We're about due.


----------



## tamleo

Deaj said:


> I concur. I would add that the Magni 3 is much like having a mini Jotunheim with the treble issues (perceived by some folks) resolved. It's a great sounding little Solid State headamp that may suffer in direct comparison with the Lyr 3 but stands on its own strengths just the same. It sounds far better than it has a right to at its price point. I listen using the Magni 3 occasionally just for a change of pace (though admittedly tube rolling with the Lyr 3 is a more satisfying way to change things up). As good as the Lyr 3 is (especially with a few select tubes) I still enjoy listening with the Magni 3.


The Magni3 made me a specs-believer. According to Lyr 3's specs, it is hard to think that the Lyr 3 has a more detailed sound than the Magni3.


----------



## I2evived

Would a magni 3 be able to power a LCD X or LCD 2 decently ?


----------



## Logistics

I2evived said:


> Would a magni 3 be able to power a LCD X or LCD 2 decently ?


Audeze states a recommended power input of 250 mW, and they have a maximum of 5W for the LCD X.  At 20-Ohms you will be between a maximum output power of 2,500 mW and 3,000 mW.  I'm sure the continuous power is going to be well over 250 mW at maximum listening levels.


----------



## Robert Padgett

I2evived said:


> Would a magni 3 be able to power a LCD X or LCD 2 decently ?



They say that the LCD X is 20-Ohms and needs >250 milliwatts. 
LCD 2 - Impedance 70 ohms and needs >250 milliwatts, also

Magni 3 puts out:
*Maximum Power, 16 ohms: *3W RMS per channel
*Maximum Power, 32 ohms: *2W RMS per channel

so it should have plenty to offer


----------



## I2evived

Logistics said:


> Audeze states a recommended power input of 250 mW, and they have a maximum of 5W for the LCD X.  At 20-Ohms you will be between a maximum output power of 2,500 mW and 3,000 mW.  I'm sure the continuous power is going to be well over 250 mW at maximum listening levels.





Robert Padgett said:


> They say that the LCD X is 20-Ohms and needs >250 milliwatts.
> LCD 2 - Impedance 70 ohms and needs >250 milliwatts, also
> 
> Magni 3 puts out:
> ...



Cool thanks, appreciate the help


----------



## joeexp

I2evived said:


> Would a magni 3 be able to power a LCD X or LCD 2 decently ?



YES

Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 3W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 2W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.3W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 430mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 230mW RMS per channel


----------



## gargani

I have an objective 2 amp and a Schiit magni 3. In order to match volume levels between the two amps , I have to turn the magni up 2 to 3 notches on the volume knob.
If I have the o2 on11:00 o'clock, I have to turn up the magni3 to 2:00 o'clock to get the same volume level.
Does anyone know why this is?


----------



## RickB (May 19, 2019)

gargani said:


> I have an objective 2 amp and a Schiit magni 3. In order to match volume levels between the two amps , I have to turn the magni up 2 to 3 notches on the volume knob.
> If I have the o2 on11:00 o'clock, I have to turn up the magni3 to 2:00 o'clock to get the same volume level.
> Does anyone know why this is?



The Magni 3 was designed so that easy to drive headphones would have sufficient range on the volume knob, in order to avoid channel imbalance because you can't turn the volume up past 8 o'clock. This was a complaint with previous Schiit amps, that you couldn't avoid channel imbalance because it became too loud past 8 o'clock.

Of course, now we have complaints of the opposite nature. You can't win. 

FWIW, I am a low volume listener and generally have the Magni 3 at 11 o'clock with Senn HD650.


----------



## gargani

RickB said:


> The Magni 3 was designed so that easy to drive headphones would have sufficient range on the volume knob, in order to avoid channel imbalance because you can't turn the volume up past 8 o'clock. This was a complaint with previous Schiit amps, that you couldn't avoid channel imbalance because it became too loud past 8 o'clock.
> 
> Of course, now we have complaints of the opposite nature. You can't win.
> 
> FWIW, I am a low volume listener and generally have the Magni 3 at 11 o'clock with Senn HD650.


Thanks for the response. I suppose that could explain it..
I was using the hd6xx at low gain with the volume at about 2:30. With high gain I set it at 12:00 o'clock.
With the objective 2 the same volume level is achieved 2 to 3 notches lower, in either high gain or low gain.
It's not a big deal. It still sounds good. And the hd6xx is the hardest to drive of all my headphones.


----------



## tafens

RickB said:


> The Magni 3 was designed so that easy to drive headphones would have sufficient range on the volume knob, in order to avoid channel imbalance because you can't turn the volume up past 8 o'clock. This was a complaint with previous Schiit amps, that you couldn't avoid channel imbalance because it became too loud past 8 o'clock.
> 
> Of course, now we have complaints of the opposite nature. You can't win.
> 
> FWIW, I am a low volume listener and generally have the Magni 3 at 11 o'clock with Senn HD650.



I usually keep it at 9:30 (low gain) for HD6XX.
Not a terribly big difference to the 9 o’clock I used to have on the Magni2U - but that probably is I part because of the Modi Multibit I use with the Magni3 having a higher output level.

Interestingly, despite having tons of more power, I have my Lyr3 multibit also at 9 o’clock (high gain)


----------



## gargani

tafens said:


> I usually keep it at 9:30 (low gain) for HD6XX.
> Not a terribly big difference to the 9 o’clock I used to have on the Magni2U - but that probably is I part because of the Modi Multibit I use with the Magni3 having a higher output level.
> 
> Interestingly, despite having tons of more power, I have my Lyr3 multibit also at 9 o’clock (high gain)


I wonder if the output voltage on the source has something to do with it.
Maybe my objective 2 doesn't need as high an input voltage as the magni 3.  Sort of like how different headphones have different sensitivity ratings.

I don't know enough about electronics to know what input impedance ratings mean for power amps; but the objective 2 apparently has an imput impedance rating of 10 kohms. The magni 3 has an input impedance rating of 25 kohms.


----------



## huberd

yangian said:


> Why Magni 3, with power consumption of only 6w, is more powerful than Asgard 2, with power consumption of 30w?!



The Magni is a push pull amplifier which is more efficient plus they sound better than a class A in my opinion. Class AB amplifiers have a better rhythm and pace and get you moving. Class A amplifiers are biased very high and get very hot due to the transistor doing both the positive and negative part of the sign-wave. This is wasted energy and requires a lot of current to keep the transistors running. This is why the Asgard 2 has a 30 watt draw.


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## DrMEM

I just got a magni 3. It's my first headphone amp. At low volumes (up to a little less than 9 o clock) sound only comes out of my left headphone cup. Soon after that sound starts coming out of the right cup as well, and by 11 o clock _I think _the volume coming out of both channels is the same, but I can't be sure.

Is this normal?


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## Ranai1

Just got my yesterday and it's also my first headphone amp. I just tried it and with my unit it's only the right channel playing at very low volume, but I'd never use it that low so it's ok for me. But I expected a bit more power from it reading from everyone about it. I use it at low gain at 75% for music


----------



## gargani

Ranai1 said:


> Just got my yesterday and it's also my first headphone amp. I just tried it and with my unit it's only the right channel playing at very low volume, but I'd never use it that low so it's ok for me. But I expected a bit more power from it reading from everyone about it. I use it at low gain at 75% for music


To drive my hd6xx to 80db-85db , I run my magni3 at 75%; which is fine. If I want to run it on high gain, I set it to 50%.It's not a problem, for me.


----------



## Logistics

Ranai1 said:


> Just got my yesterday and it's also my first headphone amp. I just tried it and with my unit it's only the right channel playing at very low volume, but I'd never use it that low so it's ok for me. But I expected a bit more power from it reading from everyone about it. I use it at low gain at 75% for music



It all depends on your source, and what headphones you are using.  What is your equipment list?


----------



## Ranai1

Logistics said:


> It all depends on your source, and what headphones you are using.  What is your equipment list?


Hd 650 for headphones and source is MBO is Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 7, it has " High-End ESS SABRE 9018 DAC with WIMA audio capacitors"


----------



## tafens

DrMEM said:


> I just got a magni 3. It's my first headphone amp. At low volumes (up to a little less than 9 o clock) sound only comes out of my left headphone cup. Soon after that sound starts coming out of the right cup as well, and by 11 o clock _I think _the volume coming out of both channels is the same, but I can't be sure.
> 
> Is this normal?



I’d say no, it is not normal, at least not if the Magni3 receives a good input signal.

I also have Magni3 (with ModiMB connected to computer with USB) and with the HD6XX, I detect almost no imbalance even at almost zero volume, and definitely not at 9 o’clock, which is my preferred listening level (low gain).

Check your source; does plugging the headphones directly into it exhibit the same problem? If so, check the audio settings for balance, effects, etc.

Check your cables; if you use another cable, is the problem still there? Or, if you don’t have another cable, try reversing the plugs into the amp (switch the right plug for the left), did the problem move to the other side? If so, get new cables.

Still not working? You may have a bad volume control. Contact Schiit, they are usually quick to respond.


----------



## Logistics

Ranai1 said:


> Hd 650 for headphones and source is MBO is Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 7, it has " High-End ESS SABRE 9018 DAC with WIMA audio capacitors"


It looks like a decent consumer-level DAC, but the motherboard manufacturer is still responsible for the quality of the output stage, which sounds weak.  I read that that DAC can be switched between "current" mode and "voltage" mode on its output, which if the mobo manufacturer allows to be changed through their software, could be your golden ticket to correcting your low output.  Otherwise, I would suggest you try an external DAC, even outputting digitally, to a stereo receiver, and using its analog output to your Magni, just to see if matters improve.


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## Ranai1

Logistics said:


> It looks like a decent consumer-level DAC, but the motherboard manufacturer is still responsible for the quality of the output stage, which sounds weak.  I read that that DAC can be switched between "current" mode and "voltage" mode on its output, which if the mobo manufacturer allows to be changed through their software, could be your golden ticket to correcting your low output.  Otherwise, I would suggest you try an external DAC, even outputting digitally, to a stereo receiver, and using its analog output to your Magni, just to see if matters improve.


Installed every bloatware software that came with the motherboard and looked thru the whole BIOS, no luck. If I see a good opportunity I'll probably get a Modi and stack it or "worst" case get a khadas tone board. But that'll be in the future, right now I'm looking to save up for some LCD-2c as my second pair to get a bit of bass in my life 
Thank you for your help!


----------



## joeexp

Ranai1 said:


> Just got my yesterday and it's also my first headphone amp. I just tried it and with my unit it's only the right channel playing at very low volume, but I'd never use it that low so it's ok for me. But I expected a bit more power from it reading from everyone about it. I use it at low gain at 75% for music



Why the low gain?


----------



## Ranai1

joeexp said:


> Why the low gain?


Don't know, I've read somewhere to prioritize low gain over high. Still new to all of this and learning. You suggest going to High gain all the time for hd650?


----------



## RickB

Ranai1 said:


> Don't know, I've read somewhere to prioritize low gain over high. Still new to all of this and learning. You suggest going to High gain all the time for hd650?



Try it and then use what sounds best to YOU.


----------



## Logistics

RickB said:


> Try it and then use what sounds best to YOU.


This!  Nobody can tell you how to listen because everyone's hearing is different.  Try every variation.


----------



## clerkpalmer

If I wanted to upgrade my Magni 3 say one step up in quality and price, any recommendations?  Does not have to be Schiit.  Something like the Burson Fun an upgrade?  Thanks.


----------



## joeexp

Massdrop Liquid Carbon X or Massdrop X THX AAA™ 789  ...


----------



## RickB

clerkpalmer said:


> If I wanted to upgrade my Magni 3 say one step up in quality and price, any recommendations?  Does not have to be Schiit.  Something like the Burson Fun an upgrade?  Thanks.



If you are not opposed to tubes, Vali 2.


----------



## Logistics

clerkpalmer said:


> If I wanted to upgrade my Magni 3 say one step up in quality and price, any recommendations?  Does not have to be Schiit.  Something like the Burson Fun an upgrade?  Thanks.



Nobody can really tell you.  There are users who prefer the tube sound of the Vali 2, but some users say they went back to the Magni 3 because it suited their hearing better.  You just have to try something else, and decide for yourself--this isnt like upgrading a computer.


----------



## tafens

clerkpalmer said:


> If I wanted to upgrade my Magni 3 say one step up in quality and price, any recommendations?  Does not have to be Schiit.  Something like the Burson Fun an upgrade?  Thanks.



I upgraded my Magni3 (still keeping it) to a Lyr3 with the Tung-Sol tube.
For me it was a great upgrade and better in all regards. It's quite a a bit more pricey though, but worth it IMHO.


----------



## DavidA

clerkpalmer said:


> If I wanted to upgrade my Magni 3 say one step up in quality and price, any recommendations?  Does not have to be Schiit.  Something like the Burson Fun an upgrade?  Thanks.


I'd say take a look at Garage 1217 amps, Ember and Polaris would be my suggestions.  I own an Ember and have used a friends Polaris a few times and really liked it.  The biggest difference is that with the Garage 1217 amps you can adjust the output resistance/impedance to better match your headphones which to me is why many find some amps pair better with some headphones and other amps with other headphones.
As an example my HD650 sounds great with my BH Crack but sounds a bit dull and boring on my Lyr2 or Asgard2 due to these amps having fairly low output impedances where my BH Crack has an output impedance around 80-90ohms due to the tubes used.


----------



## Logistics

Its funny how this Impressions thread always takes the turn: "try this amp, instead".  I think, very seriously that users are not rearranging the rest of their rig (source, dac, headphones) enough to really see what the Magni can do.  Though, it is probably, cheaper to change the Magni and hope for the best then to change everything around it.

But my concern is predominantly, revolving around the source users are making use of.  I know many are still using onboard sound systems, and I feel very strongly that even the digital outside from the systems are possibly, sub-par.  I know I heard a significant difference moving from my old X-Fi to an M-Audio Delta 410, and I use digital coax output to a Modi 2 Uber.

I hope people will reconsider purchasing alternatives maps, and really test out the Magni in different combinations, more often.


----------



## DavidA

Logistics said:


> Its funny how this Impressions thread always takes the turn: "try this amp, instead".  I think, very seriously that users are not rearranging the rest of their rig (source, dac, headphones) enough to really see what the Magni can do.  Though, it is probably, cheaper to change the Magni and hope for the best then to change everything around it.
> 
> But my concern is predominantly, revolving around the source users are making use of.  I know many are still using onboard sound systems, and I feel very strongly that even the digital outside from the systems are possibly, sub-par.  I know I heard a significant difference moving from my old X-Fi to an M-Audio Delta 410, and I use digital coax output to a Modi 2 Uber.
> 
> I hope people will reconsider purchasing alternatives maps, and really test out the Magni in different combinations, more often.


I see your point and I can't generalize what others experiences are with the Magni3 but for me it was on my radar as something I might recommend to friends just starting out or to those who didn't want to spend much.  I did try my friend's Magni3 with many different DACs and headphones and while I think its great bargain it didn't seem to pair well with a few headphones that my friend and I tried.

Also, my response was to a specific person and took into what headphones that person had and I didn't consider your point on a possible change to the DAC but based on what headphones the OP has in the signature I don't think a "better" DAC would make as much difference as an amp that you can vary the output impedance.


----------



## DrMEM

tafens said:


> I’d say no, it is not normal, at least not if the Magni3 receives a good input signal.
> 
> I also have Magni3 (with ModiMB connected to computer with USB) and with the HD6XX, I detect almost no imbalance even at almost zero volume, and definitely not at 9 o’clock, which is my preferred listening level (low gain).
> 
> ...



My signal chain is umc204hd into the magni 3 into hd 600’s. The signal imbalance is not there when I plug the headphones directly into the umc204hd, and the signal imbalance is there with the magni regardless of how loud the volume is in my windows mixer, whether the high gain switch is engaged or not, or whether the L/R inputs to the magni are swapped. The only thing that seems to affect it is the level of the magni volume knob (which by the way feels hollow and very cheap). 

I’m surprised 9 o clock is your preferred listening level. I find the volume to be quite low at that level, and I don’t really like listening to things very loud. 

I don’t detect any problems at my preferred listening level, but I’ll contact them tomorrow.


----------



## Logistics

My Magni also has the noise in the potentiometer at low volume as well as the imbalance.  But both are gone, long before I reach listening volumes, which is above 9 o'clock.  Doesn't bother me!


----------



## gargani

Logistics said:


> My Magni also has the noise in the potentiometer at low volume as well as the imbalance.  But both are gone, long before I reach listening volumes, which is above 9 o'clock.  Doesn't bother me!


Yea, I agree. As long as there's no channel imbalance at the lowest level you would ever listen at. It shouldn't be of concern.


----------



## tafens

DrMEM said:


> My signal chain is umc204hd into the magni 3 into hd 600’s. The signal imbalance is not there when I plug the headphones directly into the umc204hd, and the signal imbalance is there with the magni regardless of how loud the volume is in my windows mixer, whether the high gain switch is engaged or not, or whether the L/R inputs to the magni are swapped. The only thing that seems to affect it is the level of the magni volume knob (which by the way feels hollow and very cheap).
> 
> I’m surprised 9 o clock is your preferred listening level. I find the volume to be quite low at that level, and I don’t really like listening to things very loud.
> 
> I don’t detect any problems at my preferred listening level, but I’ll contact them tomorrow.



Because of the imbalance being present all the way up to 11 o’clock and no imbalance from the source itself, I’d say the Magni3 has a bad volume pot.

Using the HD6XX with the Magni3+ModiMB combo I get around 60-65 dB at 9 o’clock (give or take, I used an app on my phone to measure and it’s probably not too accurate).
I think it’s a comfortable level 

However, if the pot is bad, you might get a lower volume than me at the same setting. Plus, I think the ModiMB has a higher output level than “standard”.

Please keep us posted on how things go


----------



## RickB

I recently moved from an apartment that had central air conditioning to an apartment that has room ACs in the living room and bedroom. The room ACs are considerably noisier. At my old place, 9 o'clock on the volume dial was comfortable on the Magni 3, whereas here I tend to keep it at 10-12.


----------



## ScOgLiO

RickB said:


> I recently moved from an apartment that had central air conditioning to an apartment that has room ACs in the living room and bedroom. The room ACs are considerably noisier. At my old place, 9 o'clock on the volume dial was comfortable on the Magni 3, whereas here I tend to keep it at 10-12.



I think this pretty much sums it up.

I also listen to music with my HD600 and Magni 3 at pot level around 9 o'clock, perfectly fine for me in my relatively quiet apartment. I also use headphones prevalently at night, so there's not a lot of noise regardless of the room


----------



## DrMEM

tafens said:


> Because of the imbalance being present all the way up to 11 o’clock and no imbalance from the source itself, I’d say the Magni3 has a bad volume pot.
> 
> Using the HD6XX with the Magni3+ModiMB combo I get around 60-65 dB at 9 o’clock (give or take, I used an app on my phone to measure and it’s probably not too accurate).
> I think it’s a comfortable level
> ...



I contacted Schiit support and they said the following: "Yes, that is absolutely normal behavior. Channel imbalance is completely normal on all amps with very small potentiometers, (volume controls) at low listening levels (not just our amps, but all amps with small pots). This includes Magni. The channel imbalance should not persist above 8:00 on the volume pot."

I cannot be sure exactly where my channel imbalance ends, but since my preferred listening level is in the 11 o clock - 12 o clock range and the imbalance is definitely gone by that point, I'm just going to call it good.


----------



## Logistics

Just wanted to give a heads up that a friend of mine went to a recycler, and picked up a couple items for me, one of which was a PreSonus Audiobox USB.  It took me a bit to set it up because I wanted a USB cable with hefty gauge power lines, and I needed RCA to 1/4" Mono Phono plug adapters for the output.  But I finally, got it setup the other day, and it was immediately, noticable how much better it sounded than my Modi 2 Uber.  There is much more detail in that sounds have real texture--the sound of Mark Knopfler's fingers picking in the beginning of "Sultans of Swing", the ringing of cymbal crashes, and the muted thud of a bass drum that tells you it's been stuffed with a pillow or cushion, and better vocals.  I'm not about to toss my Modi 2 Uber because it has multiple hookups, and I'll use it with something else as a pre-amplifier.  But it just goes to show that the Magni 3 has not become a bottleneck as of yet--it still has more to give with superior DAC's.


----------



## aloki

I recently got a Magni 3 and Modi 3, which I am stacking and using to feed into a ZMF Verite. I am finding that even on low gain, it gets almost too loud at 9-10 o'clock. Is that normal? I thought I would need to push this a lot more to get to a comfortable listening level for a 300 ohm can. That said, I am loving how the stack sounds with all of my headphones. 

I also noticed that the cable on the wall wart had a nick and some of the wiring had been torn. It didn't seem prevent it from working, but I stopped using it and contacted Schiit right away and have a new nick-free wall wart on the way.


----------



## tafens

aloki said:


> I recently got a Magni 3 and Modi 3, which I am stacking and using to feed into a ZMF Verite. I am finding that even on low gain, it gets almost too loud at 9-10 o'clock. Is that normal? I thought I would need to push this a lot more to get to a comfortable listening level for a 300 ohm can. That said, I am loving how the stack sounds with all of my headphones.



Listening at 9-10 o’clock sounds quite normal to me, my preferred listening level is around 9 o’clock with Magni3+Modi Multibit and HD6XX (which is also a 300 ohm headphone). Likewise with the Magni2Uber+Modi2Uber and HD6XX. Low gain setting.


----------



## ScOgLiO

tafens said:


> Listening at 9-10 o’clock sounds quite normal to me, my preferred listening level is around 9 o’clock with Magni3+Modi Multibit and HD6XX (which is also a 300 ohm headphone). Likewise with the Magni2Uber+Modi2Uber and HD6XX. Low gain setting.



Pretty much the same for me, only with HD600


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## RickB (Aug 1, 2019)

I've had my Magni 3 for almost 6 months now and it's held up really well. Still love how it sounds-- like a solid state version of the Vali 2 (though the Vali 2 has a more 3D soundstage).

My only complaint is that the volume pot gets scratchy, but turning the knob back and forth all the way 5 times seems to resolve it for awhile. I guess at this price point, they had to compromise here.

I can whole-heartedly recommend it-- I think it's a great value for a headphone amp.


----------



## mmq2404

Any one using the new Modi 3 with Magni 3? How do they sound?

Also compared to the older Schitt Modi 2 + Magni 2U


----------



## Rensek (Aug 13, 2019)

I can't compare it to Magni 2/modi 2u but I have used modi 3 extensively with Magni 3 and with a Emotiva A-100. Its fantastic as a HP or speaker DAC.

I also have a Loki, not needed, but also great.


----------



## genck

I'm still running the original modi and magini (version 1 for both) and I don't feel compelled to upgrade. I highly doubt you'd notice any difference going from the 2 to the 3, if that's what you're wanting to do (upgrade).


----------



## mmq2404

genck said:


> I'm still running the original modi and magini (version 1 for both) and I don't feel compelled to upgrade. I highly doubt you'd notice any difference going from the 2 to the 3, if that's what you're wanting to do (upgrade).



I'm curious about the tonality of the Modi 3 + Magni 3 combo.

Never owned Modi2+Magni 2U but just wanted to compare the Schitt Stack 3 with them because I had heard of them at local store.

Modi 3 also has very good measurement result at 
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...w-and-measurements-of-schiit-modi-3-dac.4742/


----------



## wantan

mmq2404 said:


> I'm curious about the tonality of the Modi 3 + Magni 3 combo.



I'd say it's very neutral, which is very subjective, with a touch of velvet sound. The two M3 go together very very well and are great allrounders. They have good clarity and clean sound. DS treble and solid state treble are not bothersome with these and they are also not murky or dull. Treble is a hair zingy but you might not notice this unless you heard very high end DAC/AMP offerings in comparison. Detail and low level information is quite excellent for the price actually and I find it pretty hard to name a serious upgrade unless you look way north 1k $. Plenty of sidegrades with different sound though. The velvet sound makes them a hair polite sounding and they are neither forward sounding nor laid back. Soundstage is a bit flat but it's still ok, if you listen to a classical orchester with solo violin piece the violin is place clearly in front and rest of the orchester around it. It's just not a holographc soundstage that you might get out of a Mulibit /Vali 2 combo neither the very precise 3D image a RME ADI 2 DAC and Phonitor X can present. A good spdif source helps soundstage a bit, Modi is excellent with USB though.
The Schiit 3 stack wouldn't be my first choice if you're mainly listening to Jazz with lots of sax or horns, it still can be a bit fatiguing there. 

I have all 4 of Schiits "small" offerings and mostly use Modi Multibit and Vali 2 (with Senns HD6xx series of headphones) as these have more "soul" which works nice for the Jazz stuff I prefer and it's also great for pop, rock and classic. They lack the clarity and tightness in bass the Schiit stack 3 has though which are better suited for lots of hiphop and plastic pop and sometimes metal etc.

Any combination of the two Modi DAC and the Magni 3 or Vali 2 can service you a long way in the journey for good music. I wouldn't put too much money on measurements.


----------



## Rensek

I find that when I use my Loki, I generally use it to turn up the treble (very slightly). On Modi/Magni/Emotiva. I find the details on the upper highs come through a little stronger this way. 

My hearing cuts out around 13.5 khz for whatever thats worth.


----------



## genck

wantan said:


> Detail and low level information is quite excellent for the price actually and I find it pretty hard to name a serious upgrade unless you look way north 1k $.


That would have been true if this weren't 2019 but there are now offerings like the JDS Labs Atom and Khadas Tone Board (same price dac/amp combo as magni3/modi3) and have perfect "measurements", which some people may like. Just sayin'. 
I'm one of the people that obviously doesn't care about these measurements, and I'm an Electrical Engineer. lol


----------



## wantan

genck said:


> there are now offerings like the JDS Labs Atom and Khadas Tone Board (same price dac/amp combo as magni3/modi3) and have perfect "measurements"



I was talking about how they sound, not how they measure. For people who want measurements they can just look them up and buy the best SINAD they can get for their money if that makes them happy. 
I'd say Modi 3 and Magni 3 measure pretty good though, no reason to worry.


----------



## mmq2404

Thank you all for useful infos 
I'm not the guy who into those measurements, buying audio device even without actual listening but reading is meh.
I'm mostly listen to vocal centric (J-pop, Vocal Trance, 2000s, 90s pop) music.
That seems Schitt Stack 3 is a very good match to start with these kind of genres


----------



## DavidA

genck said:


> I'm still running the original modi and magini (version 1 for both) and I don't feel compelled to upgrade. I highly doubt you'd notice any difference going from the 2 to the 3, if that's what you're wanting to do (upgrade).


I'll have to disagree with you about not noticing a difference.  I started with the original Modi/Mag combo and to me with some of my headphones than I had at the time (HE400, DT990 premium, HD700, SR225e, and HD598) it was a bit thin/dry sounding in comparison to my other DACs/amps (WA7d, Ember, Musette, Asgard2) that I had at the time so they were sold off.  I currently have a Modi2uber that I tried with a friends Magni3 and its a bit warmer/fuller with the same headphones that I considered thin/dry sounding.  While I think its easy to notice I have a few friends that are not into audio that can't hear any difference unless I point out want to listen to and then there are those that have decent / high-end gear that easily notice differences.


----------



## tafens

I went from the Magni2U+Modi2U (akm 4396) to the Magni3+ModiMB and think that that combo was a good upgrade. I’ve since moved on to the Lyr3 and don’t really recall the exact differences, just that it was better in just about every way.
Didn’t mix and match so I don’t know how much of the difference can be attributed to the Magni3 and the ModiMB respectively.


----------



## mmq2404 (Aug 18, 2019)

Just got these babies for few days:







My only headphones are the R70x, my previous DAC/Amp is TEAC HA-P50.
Very good synergy with my ATH R70x (470 ohms, 99dB).
At high gain the comfortable listening volume is 9 o'clock, 12-1 o'clock at low gain.
They exceed my expectation for a desktop DAC/Amp combo for 200$.

Tonality wise they're not sounding harsh at all with a little warm tilt.
Compared to my HA-P50 which is slightly warm amp, smooth uptop, the Schiit Stack 3 are just a tad brighter upper mid and treble, slightly forward sounding.
Bass is tighter, faster decay, slightly more impact.
Sound stage and imaging improved compared to HA-P50, not as wide as the tubey ones.
In short the Schiit Stack 3 improved the weaknesses of my HA-P50 but still keep the tonality.
Note that i'm connecting the stack by a pair of dirt cheap RCAs priced 5$, ordered a pair of SMSL W6 RCA cables and looking forward to the see how do they sound


----------



## mmq2404 (Aug 22, 2019)

SMSL W6 RCAs arrived and been hooked up for few days.
Well, the new RCAs deliver brighter treble as well as more detail compared to the cheaper 2 meters ones, my R70x's 12KHz is significantly emphasized.
Upper-highs now a bit fatiguing when listening to bright or bad recordings, may be this is the full potential/tonality of the Magni 3 as many have described.

Modi 3 DAC lineout itself is doing very good when being hooked up with my powered speaker Edifier R1800 TIII.
Using the preamp of the Magni 3 to feed my speakers, the sound is not as accurate and neutral as Modi 3 lineouts.
They sound a bit dirtorted, more weight in the bass and more brightness in the treble that made I turn the bass and treble on the speaker down a bit.
In short, I prefer the lineout of Modi 3 rather than Magni 3 preout when feeding my speakers


----------



## Logistics

mmq2404 said:


> Upper-highs now a bit fatiguing when listening to bright or bad recordings, may be this is the full potential/tonality of the Magni 3 as many have described



I get those fatiguing highs with my Modi 2 Uber as well.  I hooked up a Presonus Audiobox USB, and the problem went away.  Plus, it was just a better sounding DAC in every way (even though it's not marketed as a DAC, really it is by nature).  As I stated previously, in this thread, the Magni 3 has not yet become a bottleneck for me.

Note: those Presonus units can be had for a mere $50, but you do have to tackle using RCA-to-1/4"-Mono-Phono plugs, and deal with having no power switch.


----------



## dgozalie

Hello

i found this site talk about the hum of the schiit magni 3 problem and how to fix it... very recommended... i follow it and it fixed my hum... maybe it could help others too... 

https://orronoco.blogspot.com/2019/09/schiit-magni-3-hum-noise-problem-cures.html

cheap and easy and worthed to try...


----------



## Jason Stoddard

dgozalie said:


> Hello
> 
> i found this site talk about the hum of the schiit magni 3 problem and how to fix it... very recommended... i follow it and it fixed my hum... maybe it could help others too...
> 
> ...



I’m sorry that you experienced hum, but a properly operating Magni 3 has no audible hum. Please see the APx555 tests available on our site, in the Specs tab. Even with IEMs, Magni 3 on low gain is quiet.

If anyone is experiencing hum with Magni 3, you should contact us so we can have a look at it and swap it out if necessary.


----------



## dgozalie

Jason Stoddard said:


> I’m sorry that you experienced hum, but a properly operating Magni 3 has no audible hum. Please see the APx555 tests available on our site, in the Specs tab. Even with IEMs, Magni 3 on low gain is quiet.
> 
> If anyone is experiencing hum with Magni 3, you should contact us so we can have a look at it and swap it out if necessary.


Hello Jason

Greeting from Jakarta, Indonesia....

thanks for your quick reply... really appreciate your offer for exchange... unfortunately, the cost for shipping the magni 3 to your office from indonesia could cost me a fortune, not mention the time and the hassle of the customs.. so i am searching for other alternate to fix it.. so far i follow the instruction from this website, it help stop the hum... yet...

anyway great product... and really appreciate your offer... !!

Donny


----------



## Jason Stoddard

dgozalie said:


> Hello Jason
> 
> Greeting from Jakarta, Indonesia....
> 
> ...



We have worked with customers who have customs or shipping costs to make sure they have a properly functioning product. Seriously, if you’re having trouble, contact us and I’m sure we can take care of you. 

That goes for everyone with any one of our products.


----------



## Logistics

Jason Stoddard said:


> We have worked with customers who have customs or shipping costs to make sure they have a properly functioning product. Seriously, if you’re having trouble, contact us and I’m sure we can take care of you.
> 
> That goes for everyone with any one of our products.



Yeah, I have a problem with your products--they're too awesome, and I can't stop listening!  XD

-Matthew


----------



## mervinb

Jason Stoddard said:


> We have worked with customers who have customs or shipping costs to make sure they have a properly functioning product. Seriously, if you’re having trouble, contact us and I’m sure we can take care of you.
> 
> That goes for everyone with any one of our products.


I'd like to say that Schiit's approach to DOA gear is absolutely industry-leading.

My Yggy A2 arrived with internal rattles (card dislodged during shipment?). Customer support provided an international RMA, return shipping for my bad unit and the replacement arrived within a week, without my having to pay goods and services tax again. Fantastic.


----------



## 441879 (Sep 20, 2019)

tafens said:


> I went from the Magni2U+Modi2U (akm 4396) to the Magni3+ModiMB and think that that combo was a good upgrade. I’ve since moved on to the Lyr3 and don’t really recall the exact differences, just that it was better in just about every way.
> Didn’t mix and match so I don’t know how much of the difference can be attributed to the Magni3 and the ModiMB respectively.



Went down the following path. Below are my highly prejudiced and properly subjective opinions-

Modi 2U / Magna 3:
Very energetic slightly warm sound with perhaps a little brightness which incidentally really worked well with my HE 400i.

Modi 2U / Lyr3:
Sound is still energetic, but less compressed. The Lyr 3 lets you know the power is there even at low volume. Treble is slightly relaxed at the top, losing the bright edge. That can vary though depending on the tube. Soundstage is more focused.

Topping D50 / Lyr 3:

This combination removed some crunchiness from the mids, softened the treble slightly and added fine detail. I ended up putting  in a little brighter tube to compensate but the sound is still a little softer overall, which to my ears sounds cleaner, more detailed, and more resolving.

Note that this is what I recall from the time when I A-B’d them against each other by switching cables.


----------



## beyermann

My left earbud fades out in volume at random times and I have to either get the headphoe jack in and out, get the cable in and out, or just punch the thing to get it back. Man I really hope this is not malfunctioniong already, its been only 1 year since I bougth the magni 3.............


----------



## tafens

beyermann said:


> My left earbud fades out in volume at random times and I have to either get the headphoe jack in and out, get the cable in and out, or just punch the thing to get it back. Man I really hope this is not malfunctioniong already, its been only 1 year since I bougth the magni 3.............



Fortunately, there’s a two-year warranty on it. Contact Schiit about it, they usually get back to you within hours (when I have asked them about things they’ve answered very quickly).

In the mean time; have you tried other headphones/earbuds? Same issue?


----------



## mmq2404

Guys,
I've just replaced my 15 years old power strip with a new one.
LOL, it does improve Magni's sound, sound much cleaner, less humping on high gain. 
Slightly improved bass, less bright highs, better imaging as well, everything are just slightly improve about 10%.


----------



## Logistics

mmq2404 said:


> Guys,
> I've just replaced my 15 years old power strip with a new one.
> LOL, it does improve Magni's sound, sound much cleaner, less humping on high gain.
> Slightly improved bass, less bright highs, better imaging as well, everything are just slightly improve about 10%.



Tell us how big an improvement you get with no power strip at all.


----------



## mmq2404

Logistics said:


> Tell us how big an improvement you get with no power strip at all.


Tested by plugging directly into wall socket, can't hear any improvement 

I had problem with using 110v-220v transformer too. Had been using Magni 2 Uber with 110v wall wart + transformer, Magni 2 Uber was sounded too thin and overly bright, lacked bass.

The different is night and day with my current 220v Magni 3.

I think bad power trip or transformer will affect the sound significantly.


----------



## beyermann

tafens said:


> Fortunately, there’s a two-year warranty on it. Contact Schiit about it, they usually get back to you within hours (when I have asked them about things they’ve answered very quickly).
> 
> In the mean time; have you tried other headphones/earbuds? Same issue?



Yes, it's not an headphone or earbud problem.  It's either:

1) the schmitt unit itself
2) the cable
3) the dac (I use an AK1)

can I flip the cables? there is one blue and one red, this one specifically:

https://www.amazon.es/Adam-Hall-K3TPC0100-Cable-macho/dp/B006H0E4YA


----------



## tafens

beyermann said:


> Yes, it's not an headphone or earbud problem.  It's either:
> 
> 1) the schmitt unit itself
> 2) the cable
> ...



Yes, you can always connect the cable for the left channel output on the dac to the right channel input on the amp and likewise for the other cable. That will just flip the channels around.

If the problem now moves to the other channel the problem will be somewhere else than the amp. If it stays in the same channel the problem will be with the amp.


----------



## Ranai1

So i'm having a bad day right now. 
My little niece unplugged my headphones by 2-3mm and it seems shorted the magni 3 for a while until it blew up..

If anyone could help me find the transistors for it i would be really happy. I'd love to fix it and not have a paperweight...

The transistors are A1552 (with an S and 6D) and C4027 (S and 6D)
I'd really appreciate any help regarding this. Budget's tight so new stuff isn't an option for the next 2-3 months as this was not planned


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Ranai1 said:


> So i'm having a bad day right now.
> My little niece unplugged my headphones by 2-3mm and it seems shorted the magni 3 for a while until it blew up..
> 
> If anyone could help me find the transistors for it i would be really happy. I'd love to fix it and not have a paperweight...
> ...



Contact amy@schiit.com and we'll either take care of it at no charge, or send you parts if sending in the Magni isn't an option.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

beyermann said:


> Yes, it's not an headphone or earbud problem.  It's either:
> 
> 1) the schmitt unit itself
> 2) the cable
> ...



Definitely start with the cables. Also here: https://www.schiit.com/guides/amp-problems


----------



## dcime (Nov 15, 2019)

Modi 3: All The DAC You Need
Magni 3: Ready for any Headphones
(Both quoted directly from Schiit website)

I finally ordered my first true "stack" 2 days ago. I am excited to put them into action! I read on Schiit website BOTH Modi and Magni are currently in Version 3. Both of them, thats what I ordered directly from Scxhiit Audio. I am also pretty sure firmware updates are or will be available. Ive been doing this a while now but really must say...Having 2 matching components with 2 seperate power supplies is just fascinating to me. I realize this teeters on the edge of "entry level" based on pricing alone. The units are, however, anything but entry level! I realize too I could have spent much more, but why? From all over the web including pro reviewers in the industry to my colleagues here on headfi praise Schiit fairly well. The general consensus seems to be DAC's and Amp's from previous versions up to and through Version 3 both fare very admirably. The pricing structure is not as much of a concern for me as based on the quality of the gear!  Being assembled, "Made In America"  with US parts including a full 2 Year Warranty cannot be ignored either. From all I read (which was a lot for months!) and viewed they seem to be simple, clean and well made "industrial" design devices. Great specs including very high total output wattage just amazes me. This is exactly all I wanted. All the pieces of the puzzle seem to just, well, fit. I hope I am right!

   Interesting True Fact - Microphonics—the annoyingly audible rustling or thumping sounds that occur when headphone cables come into contact with external surfaces.


----------



## Deleeh

I have the Magni 3 and i find it not bad.
It is suffisant for me.I think it.

2 month later i buy the Schiit Vali 2.
Many says Magni 3 and Vali 2 are same.
I find not.When i compare i find the Vali 2 with the right tube is beautiful,more clarity,more details and warmer as the Magni.
I find the Magni have a little more Base.But is to static for me of a side, when i campare it with the Vali.I miss a little bit the Vali 2 have.

But i have the two product from Schiit and can say i love this Shiit.I would not miss it.I am happy to buy it a little peace from Amercian sound.I love it.
The price is good and is not so Problematic as the Massdrop product.
For example the CTH in the rewies many have problems with it.With the Vali no i have it round about 2-3 month and never problems with it.
And cost the half of the price.
The only thing who Schiit is very crap is the transformator.It is powerfull okay but not beautiful.And need many place in the socket.
I find aschiit can it do better,a nother case perhaps.


----------



## dcime

Deleeh said:


> I have the Magni 3 and i find it not bad.
> It is suffisant for me.I think it.
> 
> 2 month later i buy the Schiit Vali 2.
> ...



"i have the two product from Schiit and can say i love this Shiit" - Best one Ive heard as of yet!


----------



## tafens

Deleeh said:


> The only thing who Schiit is very crap is the transformator.It is powerfull okay but not beautiful.And need many place in the socket.
> I find aschiit can it do better,a nother case perhaps.



If the transformers doesn’t fit in the socket or prevent other things from being plugged in, try using a short extension cord in between the transformer and the socket, like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07877DM1T/ref=dp_cerb_1?th=1&psc=1


----------



## Ranai1

Jason Stoddard said:


> Contact amy@schiit.com and we'll either take care of it at no charge, or send you parts if sending in the Magni isn't an option.


Thank you very much Jasnon, this really made my day better!


----------



## Logistics

tafens said:


> If the transformers doesn’t fit in the socket or prevent other things from being plugged in, try using a short extension cord in between the transformer and the socket, like this one:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07877DM1T/ref=dp_cerb_1?th=1&psc=1



Oh, WOW!  I don't know why I didnt think to add a short extension.  I had to do this in a previous apartment, where the place i wanted the fridge to be was literally a foot too far for the cord so i made an extension about 18" long with beefier gauge wire than the fridge.  I hate how both my Schiit Magni and Modi wall warts cause me to lose the neighboring receptacle on their power strip so a couple extension cords are in order.

Thanks, for the reminder.


----------



## dcime

Modi 3: All The DAC You Need. Plug Modi 3 into any virtually any computer with the included USB to micro cable and you're ready to go. - From Schiit Website. Just one wall wart for the Magni 3 is all I find I need. Hope that's ok configuration?


----------



## dcime

The Modi 3 ONLY has micro USB in/out X 2.


----------



## disastermouse

How would this compare to a Garage 1313 Polaris? I had the Rev A Magni and it was a fantastic amp for the price back in the day.


----------



## Ranai1

Ranai1 said:


> Thank you very much Jasnon, this really made my day better!




The board arrived, thank you Jason. You have no idea how much this helped me, Schiit customer support is really the best. Thank you!


----------



## GearMe (Dec 4, 2019)

FYI -- Magni 3 for $74 w/free shipping on Amazon courtesy of @MrPretty on the deals thread.

https://www.amazon.com/Schiit-Magni-Headphone-Amp-Preamp/dp/B07KWJ9QMN


----------



## disastermouse

Can anyone compare this to the Garage 1313 Polaris?


----------



## Strat1117

I ordered a magni 3 through Amazon to put on my desktop.  It arrived DOA from the manufacturer (no sound in one channel).  Not too impressed.


----------



## Deleeh

Please contact the SChiit support Team for help and result your Problem with them. Maybe they send you a new.
All Rca Kabel from you are okay?Try your Headphone on another amp to make sure are a be fine with your headphone.


----------



## Strat1117 (Dec 9, 2019)

Deleeh said:


> Please contact the SChiit support Team for help and result your Problem with them. Maybe they send you a new.
> All Rca Kabel from you are okay?Try your Headphone on another amp to make sure are a be fine with your headphone.



Yes, I’ve been doing this for 45+ years, I know how to figure out where the problem is and it was the amp.  I opted for a refund rather than be their QC tester.


----------



## beyermann

Jason Stoddard said:


> Definitely start with the cables. Also here: https://www.schiit.com/guides/amp-problems



I had some brand new cables because i accidentally bought 2 pairs and switched it and it still randomly pans to the left from time to time... really confused. If its not the cable then its the audio kontrol 1 where I plug the magni or the magni itself.... fml


----------



## HiFan

unknownuser said:


> Mine is just few days old but has a little bit of smell from the left side (Capacitor smell?) but not that warm to touch. back of the unit rattles a very bit if I shake it, clicks after turning on earlier than the mentioned 15-20 sec in the manual (or I misunderstood). I guess it's fine, I might ask them if the smell and rattle is ok or not.
> 
> I'm using it with low gain and volume between 8 and 9 o'clock, it's on for like 15 hours daily so I only turn it off for the night.
> 
> I think that smoking is no go and dangerous, your buddy should contact the manufacturer



Mine got a small pluff of smoke coming from the 2x 3r30 resistors next to the volume knob. It only smoked for a few seconds. Sound is fine so far but i feel unsettled... 

I don't think you should keep yours on all the time. This thing is really warm and it would shorten life of the caps rapidly (every 10 degree gain, life decrease by half). Yours might end in 2-3 years. However I don't know if you expect to keep it that long.


----------



## HiFan

MonoOno said:


> I told him to but both times it seem to work with no issues after.



Really, remove the top and check if any component is burnt. When it does burn... temp will go high enough to melt solder joints, which is close to ~300 C. Don't gamble.


----------



## audiobomber (Apr 6, 2020)

dcime said:


> The Modi 3 ONLY has micro USB in/out X 2.


I'm not sure what you mean.

*MODI 3*
*Inputs: *USB, Toslink SPDIF, Coaxial SPDIF
*Output: *RCA (single-ended)


----------



## eldus

Well, my Magni 3 has a hum. Really distracting. Still there even without a source, both channels.


----------



## JamminVMI

audiobomber said:


> I'm not sure what you mean.
> 
> *MODI 3*
> *Inputs: *USB, Toslink SPDIF, Coaxial SPDIF
> *Output: *RCA (single-ended)



correct. The two micro USB connectors are power/data in (left), and power (right). And then there are the two TOSlink inputs...


----------



## eldus

Well, my Magni 3 was apparently out of warranty because I opened the top. I bought a JDS Atom. I am hearing things in songs that I haven't heard before. The sound is marvelous.


----------



## HiFan (Apr 16, 2020)

eldus said:


> Well, my Magni 3 has a hum. Really distracting. Still there even without a source, both channels.



Still there if you have source connected? Magni doesn't have ground wire via power socket, you need to hook up a grounded source to keep the thing grounded.

Mine only hum if I turn up the volume under high gain. 

BTW, I don't think they can tell if you removed the top...


----------



## dcime

audiobomber said:


> I'm not sure what you mean.
> 
> *MODI 3*
> *Inputs: *USB, Toslink SPDIF, Coaxial SPDIF
> *Output: *RCA (single-ended)



I'm strictly referring to any USB in or out. So the Modi 3 has a micro USB to power and a separate micro USB for interconnect. Thats all I was stating. I know there are other format types interconnects as well.


----------



## eldus

> Still there if you have source connected? Magni doesn't have ground wire via power socket, you need to hook up a grounded source to keep the thing grounded.
> 
> Mine only hum if I turn up the volume under high gain.
> 
> BTW, I don't think they can tell if you removed the top...



Yep it is still there without a source connected. Bought a JDS Atom and haven't had any problems. Super clean output.


----------



## AlfredoDG

Today, trying to eliminate some cable mess on my desktop, I connected my little speaker monitor to the magni pre-out instead of using the monitor internal DAC... The speaker are B&W MM1, 10y old, out of production... Not the best monitor out there, but.... Youthful mistake....anyway...
WOW! the sound is clompletely changed.. It has earn body, is full, warm, with all the details of the Ifi nano dac.. I think I'll use the speaker a lot more, now.....


----------



## oaklandrichie

Just got the magni today for a vinyl/headphones only set up. I've got Pro-ject Debut -> Pro-ject Phono Box -> Magni 3 Plus -> HD600's. The sound is great, definitely better than my Cambridge Topaz amp, but it's lacking power for Sennheisers. I have to max out the volume on high gain to get to a good volume. Honestly, it's probably better for my ears that it doesn't get louder, but I'm eyeing something more powerful now. The Valhalla?


----------



## Rensek (Apr 29, 2020)

oaklandrichie said:


> Just got the magni today for a vinyl/headphones only set up. I've got Pro-ject Debut -> Pro-ject Phono Box -> Magni 3 Plus -> HD600's. The sound is great, definitely better than my Cambridge Topaz amp, but it's lacking power for Sennheisers. I have to max out the volume on high gain to get to a good volume. Honestly, it's probably better for my ears that it doesn't get louder, but I'm eyeing something more powerful now. The Valhalla?



Sounds like the output level on your phono preamp could be higher.

Does the phono pre you are using have adjustable gain? I know my Mani does. Magni 3 on high gain into a 300 ohm from a 2v input signal will be ear shatteringly loud. Loud enough to damage your hearing after only a few minutes of exposure, maybe instantly.

Edit - I see that your phono pre only does 500 mv output.

The Mani will do 1v rms output which is double the 500 mv of your output.

I suggest you think about a different pre amp.

The Valhalla has less output power into 300 ohm then the magni does.

Asgard 3 might work for you if you are set on keeping your pre and want a more powerful HP amp.


----------



## oaklandrichie

Rensek said:


> Sounds like the output level on your phono preamp could be higher.
> 
> Does the phono pre you are using have adjustable gain? I know my Mani does. Magni 3 on high gain into a 300 ohm from a 2v input signal will be ear shatteringly loud. Loud enough to damage your hearing after only a few minutes of exposure, maybe instantly.
> 
> ...


Thanks, that's good advice. I didn't realize the Mani had that much output.


----------



## Rensek

oaklandrichie said:


> Thanks, that's good advice. I didn't realize the Mani had that much output.



Now a disclaimer, I don't know what cartridge you are using. But each of Manis settings alters the gain.


----------



## audiobomber (Apr 30, 2020)

oaklandrichie said:


> Just got the magni today for a vinyl/headphones only set up. I've got Pro-ject Debut -> Pro-ject Phono Box -> Magni 3 Plus -> HD600's. The sound is great, definitely better than my Cambridge Topaz amp, but it's lacking power for Sennheisers. I have to max out the volume on high gain to get to a good volume. Honestly, it's probably better for my ears that it doesn't get louder, but I'm eyeing something more powerful now. The Valhalla?


Friends of mine had the Pro-ject Phono box. It was awful; no PRaT, dead boring sound. The Mani was a big improvement, and would help with your low level problem.


----------



## oaklandrichie

Rensek said:


> Now a disclaimer, I don't know what cartridge you are using. But each of Manis settings alters the gain.



I'm using an Ortofon Red.
I have to admit that I don't understand all the numbers. For the Phono-Box, how do calculate the 500 mv output given these specs? Sorry, total newbie here.


----------



## Rensek

oaklandrichie said:


> Thanks, that's good advice. I didn't realize the Mani had that much output.



Now a disclaimer, I don't know what cartridge you are using. But each of Manis settings alters the gain.


oaklandrichie said:


> I'm using an Ortofon Red.
> I have to admit that I don't understand all the numbers. For the Phono-Box, how do calculate the 500 mv output given these specs? Sorry, total newbie here.



I pulled it off the pro-ject website, but you likely have more accurate info since you own the device. From what your specs are showing you are only getting 300mv, not 500mv. It's possible I looked at specs for a different model, or you know, I'm dumb 😀.


----------



## audiobomber (Apr 30, 2020)

Phono stage gain is dependent on cartridge output voltage. The spec above shows 300mV with a 3mV cartridge. The Red has a typical output of 5.5mV, so it will provide more than 300mV out. I believe it would be 550mV, but I'm not certain.

Regardless, gain of the Phono Box is 40dB and gain with the Mani set for standard output MM is 42dB. A difference of 2dB is not a game changer.

The Mani has higher gain stage settings but the input would likely overload with an Ortofon Red.


----------



## lapzoo

I'm from Europe, I can hardly get my hands on any of the amps that are recommended in this forum. But I found a used 2018 Schiit stack (Modi 2 + Magni 3). Is the Magni 3+ or Heresy significantly better than this or should I buy it? It's only 200 bucks, which is definitely okay. For anything I have to ship to my country I have to pay ridiculously high fees.


----------



## Logistics

In my opinion, consideration of the shipping fees otherwise, yes that's a good deal.


----------



## RickB

lapzoo said:


> I'm from Europe, I can hardly get my hands on any of the amps that are recommended in this forum. But I found a used 2018 Schiit stack (Modi 2 + Magni 3). Is the Magni 3+ or Heresy significantly better than this or should I buy it? It's only 200 bucks, which is definitely okay. For anything I have to ship to my country I have to pay ridiculously high fees.



The 3+ is brighter (might be good or bad) and a little more detailed. Up to you if you think it's worth it.


----------



## Logistics

RickB said:


> The 3+ is brighter (might be good or bad) and a little more detailed. Up to you if you think it's worth it.



Take what RickB says into consideration, but also, keep in mind that in my own experience the Magni 3 is not the bottleneck as I have swapped Modi 2 Uber (same DAC's as regular Modi 2) out from behind the Magni 3 in favor of a Presonus Audiobox USB, and got better sound for my hearing/headphones/musical tastes/what-have-you.


----------



## McLambo

lapzoo said:


> I'm from Europe, I can hardly get my hands on any of the amps that are recommended in this forum. But I found a used 2018 Schiit stack (Modi 2 + Magni 3). Is the Magni 3+ or Heresy significantly better than this or should I buy it? It's only 200 bucks, which is definitely okay. For anything I have to ship to my country I have to pay ridiculously high fees.



I got fed up waiting for stock with the euopean dealer and ordered US instead. Delivered within a week


----------



## ScOgLiO

McLambo said:


> I got fed up waiting for stock with the euopean dealer and ordered US instead. Delivered within a week



How was the experience with customs for you?

I got my Magni 3 from Schiit as well when I was living in Maastricht and ended up paying quite the sum because of taxes-FedEx fees...
I then decided to use Schiit-Europe when I purchased the Mimby, but I hear about the stock situation


----------



## McLambo

ScOgLiO said:


> How was the experience with customs for you?
> 
> I got my Magni 3 from Schiit as well when I was living in Maastricht and ended up paying quite the sum because of taxes-FedEx fees...
> I then decided to use Schiit-Europe when I purchased the Mimby, but I hear about the stock situation



No experience so far, so I guess I got lucky? (I rarely get lucky otherwise)


----------



## ScOgLiO

McLambo said:


> No experience so far, so I guess I got lucky? (I rarely get lucky otherwise)



Looks like it, I got a letter from FedEx shortly-ish after the delivery itself with the bill (VAT, customs, fees...kinda pricey for a Magni, in the end)

Hopefully you'll get away with it, I think with items that aren't too expensive you can get lucky, indeed


----------



## McLambo

Well on that case i keep my fingers crossed, as the last item was delivered just last week


----------



## foniak

When should one use the HI option? how many ohm does a headphone need to have for you to benefit from the HI?


----------



## audiobomber

foniak said:


> When should one use the HI option? how many ohm does a headphone need to have for you to benefit from the HI?


Impedance is only one consideration, the other is sensitivity. My DT 1990 is 250 ohms, but very sensitive at 102dB/mW. Low gain on the Magni 3 provides plenty of level and drive. The Drop 4XX is 35 ohms but only 93dB/mW sensitivity. The 4XX would benefit from High Gain.


----------



## foniak (Jul 11, 2020)

audiobomber said:


> Impedance is only one consideration, the other is sensitivity. My DT 1990 is 250 ohms, but very sensitive at 102dB/mW. Low gain on the Magni 3 provides plenty of level and drive. The Drop 4XX is 35 ohms but only 93dB/mW sensitivity. The 4XX would benefit from High Gain.




How do you measure sensitivity? For k371 or 7510 for instance which are low impedance what should I use?

k371:


Impedanz: 32 Ohm
Empfindlichkeit: 114 dB SPL/ V
7510


Impedanz: 24 Ohm
Schalldruckpegel: 108 dB
I mean, 102 and 93 aren't that fall appart? how do I know if its low or high?

Also, its ok to change impedance during playback, or should I power off the unit, change it then power again?


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## audiobomber

foniak said:


> How do you measure sensitivity? For k371 or 7510 for instance which are low impedance what should I use?
> 
> k371:
> 
> ...


Each 3dB increase requires double the power. Your headphones will definitely be best on low gain.


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## foniak

audiobomber said:


> Each 3dB increase requires double the power. Your headphones will definitely be best on low gain.


So where is the line drawn? starting from what db is HI worth it?


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## audiobomber (Jul 12, 2020)

foniak said:


> So where is the line drawn? starting from what db is HI worth it?


It's not simply based on sensitivity or impedance, both factor in.

Impedance tells you how much output you need to reach a certain level (higher dB means louder for given input). Impedance affects how much voltage the amp can provide (low impedance means the amp can supply higher voltage, higher impedance lowers the voltage capability, which means lower volume capability).

The goal is to keep your volume potentiometer in a reasonable range. If the pot is set too low, i.e. below 10:00 o'clock, one channel may be louder than the other. This is especially true with the Magni, which has a very inexpensive potentiometer. Turning the pot too far can cause noise, although this is not a big factor with the Magni, which is very quiet. Ideally you select the gain that keeps the pot between 10:00 and 3:00.

Low gain is actually a slight bit cleaner than high with the Magni 3.


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## audiobomber

foniak said:


> Also, its ok to change impedance during playback, or should I power off the unit, change it then power again?


There's no need to turn off the amp to change gain. Just be careful not to overload the headphone when switching from low to high gain.


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## tafens

When switching gain with music playing (from low to high) just remember to have the volume set to a level you know won’t be too loud on the high gain setting.. the same goes for changing headphones, if you change to a pair with higher sensitivity the volume will boost accordingly.

If you’re deciding between gain settings, give both low and high some time each and see if either one sounds more appealing to you. Some people find that one or the other sounds better.

As for the volume imbalance, it can be a problem when going very low on the pot but personally I’ve had no problem. With the Magni3 I’ve not been able to hear any imbalance even down to the lowest setting where I can still be hear the sound. On the Magni2U as I remember there was a very slight imbalance at the lowest setting but none where I usually listen. Using HD6XX headphones and usually listening on high gain at 8:30-9 o’clock on the pot.


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## JamminVMI

audiobomber said:


> Impedance is only one consideration, the other is sensitivity. My DT 1990 is 250 ohms, but very sensitive at 102dB/mW. Low gain on the Magni 3 provides plenty of level and drive. The Drop 4XX is 35 ohms but only 93dB/mW sensitivity. The 4XX would benefit from High Gain.


And your ears will let you know. If you don’t have enough volume range on lo, go to high. Find what sounds best to you!


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## foniak

If I buy a motu M4, do you think it's worth it to continue using the Magni 3? I bought the Magni 3 mainly because of my 600 ohm DT770 which are now broken unfortunately. The rest of headphones I use I doubt I need an amp. Considering the M4 is (from what I've read) good to go with headphones, should I still route the headphones throught the Magni 3? I just don't want any possible extra coloring so im assuming the less you route the sound throught the best sound you get? Im going to mix and produce music so I want to get rid of as much coloring as possible.


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## ckvp

What's a fair price for a Magni 3 with wall wart in excellent condition, just over 2 years old (out of warranty)?


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## JamminVMI

ckvp said:


> What's a fair price for a Magni 3 with wall wart in excellent condition, just over 2 years old (out of warranty)?


Given Schiit new B-stock is 79 and there's a real scratch 'n dent C-stock at $69, I'd say 69 or thereabouts, assuming the case is pristine, but that's just me. YMMV.


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## Jimmyblues1959

wantan said:


> I'd say it's very neutral, which is very subjective, with a touch of velvet sound. The two M3 go together very very well and are great allrounders. They have good clarity and clean sound. DS treble and solid state treble are not bothersome with these and they are also not murky or dull. Treble is a hair zingy but you might not notice this unless you heard very high end DAC/AMP offerings in comparison. Detail and low level information is quite excellent for the price actually and I find it pretty hard to name a serious upgrade unless you look way north 1k $. Plenty of sidegrades with different sound though. The velvet sound makes them a hair polite sounding and they are neither forward sounding nor laid back. Soundstage is a bit flat but it's still ok, if you listen to a classical orchester with solo violin piece the violin is place clearly in front and rest of the orchester around it. It's just not a holographc soundstage that you might get out of a Mulibit /Vali 2 combo neither the very precise 3D image a RME ADI 2 DAC and Phonitor X can present. A good spdif source helps soundstage a bit, Modi is excellent with USB though.
> The Schiit 3 stack wouldn't be my first choice if you're mainly listening to Jazz with lots of sax or horns, it still can be a bit fatiguing there.
> 
> I have all 4 of Schiits "small" offerings and mostly use Modi Multibit and Vali 2 (with Senns HD6xx series of headphones) as these have more "soul" which works nice for the Jazz stuff I prefer and it's also great for pop, rock and classic. They lack the clarity and tightness in bass the Schiit stack 3 has though which are better suited for lots of hiphop and plastic pop and sometimes metal etc.
> ...




Bought a Schiit Magni 3 back in 2017 when it came out and have enjoyed it ever since.   I use it with a Modi 2 Uber, LOKI Mini, and
EITR.   A great affordable combo that really sounds nice with my planar magnetic headphones.


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## tameral

If the regular Magni 3 has these specs:
Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 3W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 2W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 1.3W RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 430mW RMS per channel
Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 230mW RMS per channel

Then how much power can it have at 70 ohms?  Is there a way to figure that out or do you have to guess?  Regards


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## Voxata

Most likely a guess, most likely far more than you'll ever need.


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## tameral (Feb 27, 2021)

Read some different feedback about needed power to drive Lcd-2s.  Some said you need 1-4 watts of output power at 70ohm.  I read elsewhere just > .25watt

I want to hold off on buying a nice solid state balanced amp and then have to buy balanced cables for my headphones.  So hoping just to use my Magni 3 for now or pick up a new 100-200$ amp


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## Voxata

You'll be fine, for now.


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## JamminVMI

tameral said:


> Read some different feedback about needed power to drive Lcd-2s.  Some said you need 1-4 watts of output power at 70ohm.  I read elsewhere just > .25watt
> 
> I want to hold off on buying a nice solid state balanced amp and then have to buy balanced cables for my headphones.  So hoping just to use my Magni 3 for now or pick up a new 100-200$ amp


I’m sorry, but did you just intimate that there was an Asgard 3 in your future?


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## tameral

Well I've done some further research and that's out of the picture

I'm just gonna hold off until I can buy a balanced cable for the LCD-2 and also a balanced amp, probably something like a magnius


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## tameral

JamminVMI said:


> I’m sorry, but did you just intimate that there was an Asgard 3 in your future?



Actually, I think the Asgard 3 might be the next step.  I really appreciate your post.  How well does it drive the LCD-2s?  I just received them and the Magni 3 does drive them successfully - but I gather not to their full potential.  Can the Asgard 3?  How does that work - output power and the volume knob position?  Would I be getting 2 Watts in to the LCD at easy listening volumes from the Asgard 3?  I never understood the relation of output power and where I am on the volume knob.


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## JamminVMI

tameral said:


> Actually, I think the Asgard 3 might be the next step.  I really appreciate your post.  How well does it drive the LCD-2s?  I just received them and the Magni 3 does drive them successfully - but I gather not to their full potential.  Can the Asgard 3?  How does that work - output power and the volume knob position?  Would I be getting 2 Watts in to the LCD at easy listening volumes from the Asgard 3?  I never understood the relation of output power and where I am on the volume knob.


I was just drawing the next logical conclusion, but you’re welcome. I have Sundara, and we’re kinda in the same boat with Magni. The planars don’t quite reach their full potential. Asgard3 gives them the proper kick in the pants to sound beautiful. And I’d guess you’re right at the 2w point on the curve. I don’t know that anyone figures out the relationship between volume knob and power output. I’m more in the “does it sound great” camp, myself...


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## Caithang

any one try Magni 3 driver iem 12Ohm - 115 dB yet ?
review, please !


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## Jimmyblues1959 (Jun 26, 2021)

Caithang said:


> any one try Magni 3 driver iem 12Ohm - 115 dB yet ?
> review, please !



I use my Magni 3 version 1 with BASN B Master Triple IEM's in low impedance mode,  and the pairing sounds very nice. I believe the
BASN B Master Triples are about 12 ohms.


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## audiobomber (Jun 26, 2021)

tameral said:


> How does that work - output power and the volume knob position?  Would I be getting 2 Watts in to the LCD at easy listening volumes from the Asgard 3?  I never understood the relation of output power and where I am on the volume knob.


The position of the volume pot has no direct correlation to the power the amp is producing. The input signal determines how high you need to push the volume for a comfortable level. Some DAC's output 1V, some 2V, others are variable. The level can also be adjusted by player software. The sensitivity of the headphones has an effect, more sensitive headphones will need less gain to get loud. Lastly, the low gain high gain switch on a Magni or Asgard affects the volume controller's position. As you can see, it is quite impossible to determine watts from the volume position.


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## Caithang

Jimmyblues1959 said:


> Tôi sử dụng magni 3 phiên bản 1 của basn B Master IEM và 3 chữ ghép nghệ thuật. Tôi thiếc
> basn B Master Triples là 12 ohms


Thanks Jimmyblues1959
Your iem is 18 Ohm - 97dB.
I think Magni is too strong for iem, so I haven't driven it yet


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## audiobomber

Caithang said:


> any one try Magni 3 driver iem 12Ohm - 115 dB yet ?
> review, please !


You won't do any harm by trying, just use a little care. Use the low gain setting on the Magni, turn the volume controller to its lowest setting and plug in your iems. Turn the volume up very gradually.

The only issue with running the volume at a minimal position is that you may hear one channel louder than the other due to imbalance in the pot. What I do to get around low volume position is to set the amp volume pot at about 9:00, and adjust the control software to a comfortable level. Another way is to decrease the output of the DAC if it has variable level capability.


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## Jimmyblues1959 (Jun 26, 2021)

audiobomber said:


> You won't do any harm by trying, just use a little care. Use the low gain setting on the Magni, turn the volume controller to its lowest setting and plug in your iems. Turn the volume up very gradually.
> 
> The only issue with running the volume at a minimal position is that you may hear one channel louder than the other due to imbalance in the pot. What I do to get around low volume position is to set the amp volume pot at about 9:00, and adjust the control software to a comfortable level. Another way is to decrease the output of the DAC if it has variable level capability.




Yes,  the Magni 3 (version 1) works very well with the BASN B Master Triple in its lower impedance  setting.  There is too much noise  when the high impedance setting is used on the Magni 3.  Also, the BASN B Master Triple is a really nice sounding IEM. 

 Bought mine on sale for about $79 delivered and I'm really impressed with them. 😊


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## holofonze (Sep 12, 2022)

To resurrect this thread, anyone upgrade from a magni 3 to a jotunheim 2, burson soloist, a90d, etc notice any significant difference? Im running my hifiman arya stealth with a magni 3, and using my rme babyface pro as dac which can eq the bass shelf up with no audible distortion and a lot headroom to spare on the high gain setting. I’m wondering if i would really get any benefit from upgrading, when the magni 3 already hits lord and sounds great? Thanks.


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## Logistics

I have not owned a Jotunheim, but as you have admitted, your amp is not a bottleneck.  I suspect that playing with DAC's to get different sound (not necessarily better as this is a matter of preference) before changing your amplification.


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## Jimmyblues1959 (Sep 13, 2022)

holofonze said:


> To resurrect this thread, anyone upgrade from a magni 3 to a jotunheim 2, burson soloist, a90d, etc notice any significant difference? Im running my hifiman arya stealth with a magni 3, and using my rme babyface pro as dac which can eq the bass shelf up with no audible distortion and a lot headroom to spare on the high gain setting. I’m wondering if i would really get any benefit from upgrading, when the magni 3 already hits lord and sounds great? Thanks.




"If it ain't broke don't fix it" 😉.  I have a 5 year old original Magni 3 and still really enjoy it with my inexpensive planar
magnetic headphones (Hifiman HE4XX, Fostex T50RP MK3, Fostex TR60RP).  I use the Magni 3 with  a Schiit Lokius
tone control and the following dac's:  Schiit Modius, Modi 2 Uber, AVA Insight Multibit, Entech Audio Number Cruncher 205.2,
and it works well with each of them.  I also use a Schiit EITR as a USB to S/PDIF bridge for all but the Modius.


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## JamminVMI

holofonze said:


> To resurrect this thread, anyone upgrade from a magni 3 to a jotunheim 2, burson soloist, a90d, etc notice any significant difference? Im running my hifiman arya stealth with a magni 3, and using my rme babyface pro as dac which can eq the bass shelf up with no audible distortion and a lot headroom to spare on the high gain setting. I’m wondering if i would really get any benefit from upgrading, when the magni 3 already hits lord and sounds great? Thanks.


Well. I have Magni 3 and Jot 2. Note that Magni 3 hasn't gone away since Jotunheim moved in, nor has Vali 2.  But with planars like your Arya (which I don't have), Jotunheim has more soundstage and detail retrieval than Magni. With all that said, for most headphones, Magni can easily be where you stop (I did pick up an IE Magni from B-Stock, and I think it's cleaner sounding than the 3. But Magni has the headroom (again, on most cans, the exception for me is DCA planars) for darn near everything, and it sounds great. But there IS more to be had with Jot2. 

But that's not the question. The question is, is it worth it? Most of us get the upgrade urge at  one time or another. I have a great friend who still loves his Magni 2 Uber, and has stuck with it since he got it. I got a bug and grabbed Jot2. We're all different, but there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with Magni 3 (or 2, or Heresy, or IE, etc.). Need does not enter the equation. Depending on where you are here in the Golden State, if it's easy for you to tote Arya down to Valencia, I'd do it. If you train up or down, the train depot is literally across the street, and if you're training from the north, you have a bus from Bakersfield that drops you off at the station, too. I'd say it'd be worth the trip. 

I will say that Bifrost makes a huge improvement. But in general, if you say something is great, upgrading is a want, not a need. Big help, right?


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## holofonze

JamminVMI said:


> Well. I have Magni 3 and Jot 2. Note that Magni 3 hasn't gone away since Jotunheim moved in, nor has Vali 2.  But with planars like your Arya (which I don't have), Jotunheim has more soundstage and detail retrieval than Magni. With all that said, for most headphones, Magni can easily be where you stop (I did pick up an IE Magni from B-Stock, and I think it's cleaner sounding than the 3. But Magni has the headroom (again, on most cans, the exception for me is DCA planars) for darn near everything, and it sounds great. But there IS more to be had with Jot2.
> 
> But that's not the question. The question is, is it worth it? Most of us get the upgrade urge at  one time or another. I have a great friend who still loves his Magni 2 Uber, and has stuck with it since he got it. I got a bug and grabbed Jot2. We're all different, but there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with Magni 3 (or 2, or Heresy, or IE, etc.). Need does not enter the equation. Depending on where you are here in the Golden State, if it's easy for you to tote Arya down to Valencia, I'd do it. If you train up or down, the train depot is literally across the street, and if you're training from the north, you have a bus from Bakersfield that drops you off at the station, too. I'd say it'd be worth the trip.
> 
> I will say that Bifrost makes a huge improvement. But in general, if you say something is great, upgrading is a want, not a need. Big help, right?


Thanks for your view. Yeah, I understand that amps can all be a personal thing when it comes to sound. I know the magni 3 can make my arya sound really good, but i wonder if a jot 2 or fully class A amp like the burson soloist will make them sound even better. I’ve heard people repeatedly say how planars benefit from powerful amps, even though something like the magni 3 seems to power them just fine. I will end up getting another amp at some point just to see for myself how it can affect the sound (placebo or not lol). My rme audio interface/dac sounds crystal clear, but i am also interested in trying an r2r like the bifrost 2 as well.


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## JamminVMI

holofonze said:


> Thanks for your view. Yeah, I understand that amps can all be a personal thing when it comes to sound. I know the magni 3 can make my arya sound really good, but i wonder if a jot 2 or fully class A amp like the burson soloist will make them sound even better. I’ve heard people repeatedly say how planars benefit from powerful amps, even though something like the magni 3 seems to power them just fine. I will end up getting another amp at some point just to see for myself how it can affect the sound (placebo or not lol). My rme audio interface/dac sounds crystal clear, but i am also interested in trying an r2r like the bifrost 2 as well.


I love Jot2 and Lyr with planars. They do seem to open up more (and Schiit has an in-home 15 day trial with a small restocking fee…)! Regardless, ENJOY!


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## schmalgausen

I owned self-made O2 amp and had zero issues with the same Alps RK27 pot. However Schiit's one tends to be scratchy. That's strange.


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## JamminVMI

schmalgausen said:


> I owned self-made O2 amp and had zero issues with the same Alps RK27 pot. However Schiit's one tends to be scratchy. That's strange.


It’s a volume pot. Some get scratchy. Deoxit might help. But pots in general, especially the small ones, are a crapshoot.


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## schmalgausen

Why not use more quality model of pot?


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## JCS17

JamminVMI said:


> It’s a volume pot. Some get scratchy. Deoxit might help. But pots in general, especially the small ones, are a crapshoot.


I strongly recommend you use the Deoxit on switches & connectors.  For pots & sliders, use fader lube!


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## JamminVMI

JCS17 said:


> I strongly recommend you use the Deoxit on switches & connectors.  For pots & sliders, use fader lube!


I’ll give that a go, tyvm!


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## adydula (Dec 18, 2022)

After many weeks of not using my Magni 3....with all the new stuff...Magni 3+, Magni + Piety and others...I plugged it in and have it in the chain with iFI IDSD Burr Brown chipped dac in their Bit perfect of NOS mode. Using my D8000 Pros. Flacs ripped via Foobar 2000.

Still a really very very good amp regardless of all the new stuff....

A $99 wonder for sure!

Alex


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## adydula

Funny the only thing in this stack that has the on LED is the Magni 3.
Folks complained about it but I like it!

lol


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## Logistics

schmalgausen said:


> I owned self-made O2 amp and had zero issues with the same Alps RK27 pot. However Schiit's one tends to be scratchy. That's strange.


I've often wondered about that, too.  I'm not opposed to replacing it myself, but I don't want to have the same issue.  Is there a superior replacement that others have been using?


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## adydula

The main reason for RK09 pots in these smaller form factors is they "fit" the small enclosure.
Cost would also become and issue.

Using a RK27 size for most vendors solve the scratchy issues for the most part.
Even the PassLabs $3800 HPA-1 has a ALPS RK27 in it...

There are other vol pot solutions but then there is that added cost...

IMO the RK 27 is a really decent answer for most stuff.


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## schmalgausen

Of course, I mentioned rk09, not rk27, in my objective2 amp. No scratches, no imbalance.


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## inmytaxi

Logistics said:


> I've often wondered about that, too.  I'm not opposed to replacing it myself, but I don't want to have the same issue.  Is there a superior replacement that others have been using?


No global feedback? Just a guess. I really don't even know what that means.


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## schmalgausen

That's funny it was the most active thread about Magni amp. 3+ was less popular, DACs are not interesting at all.


----------

