# Holo Audio Bliss



## Rayon

I've seen comments referring to upcoming Holo Bliss. An example: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/holo-audio-may-dac-speculation.865892/post-16762805

Any information about the specs, prices and timelines?


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## roderickvd

Watching. This supposed to be the successor to the Azure, but headphones only?


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## xenithon

Also keeping an eye out. Isn’t it meant to be the successor to the Cyan?


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## incredulousity (Jul 17, 2022)

I talked to Tim at Kitsune HiFi last week about this. He was not forthcoming on details, but did state that they were expecting to announce details in August timeframe, with orders and availability shortly thereafter. Bliss is now mentioned explicitly on the Azure page on the Kitsune website.

Bliss is expected to be a big boy headphone amp, a halo product in line with Spring 3, May, and Serene, per unsubstantiated rumors.

I’d really like to see it include a preamp too, even if it’s just the Spring 3 preamp board, as it could then replace Phonitor X in my chain as the solid state device. Alternatively, an XLR pass through to connect to a Serene would do, but an all-in-one would be more to my liking.


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## deafenears (Jul 26, 2022)

incredulousity said:


> I’d really like to see it include a preamp too,


I spoke with Tim sometime last year asking about the Serene and he did mention that it will include a preamp.



> I think it does well with the Susvara but again… not ideal. The bliss will do better. The bliss will also be a preamp bit not nearly as good as the serene is at being a preamp.
> There are compromises either way. Bliss will be focused being a headphone amp. And serene is focused at being the best preamp, just happens it’s also a decent headamp but wont be at the level of the bliss.


I think the design will be very similar to the Serene, or at least it started out that way. Pricing is also likely around that similar to the Serene $2.7 - $3k.


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## rmsanger

I've emailed back and froth with Tim a half dozen times on the bliss.  Initially it was supposed to be announced in early 1Q then it slipped a few times and it was supposed to be end of 2Q.  At this point I stopped emailed him over the 10 month period as it was always slipping so will just wait for them to announce.   

Flux had this happen a few times with the volot as they had some issues around the initial design of pre-amp and then some PCB delays but eventually it all came through.


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## bemeurer

I'm really curious what the power output will be. The only thing holding me back from getting an Oor/Hypsos is knowing the Bliss is supposed to be around the corner.


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## incredulousity

bemeurer said:


> I'm really curious what the power output will be. The only thing holding me back from getting an Oor/Hypsos is knowing the Bliss is supposed to be around the corner.


I can't imagine it being a low power device like Azure, since they intend for it to be a flagship product. Whether it is on par with the other big boys remains to be seen, but minimal expectations at this level should be the ability to optimally drive Susvara.


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## SlothRock

I’m not sure where I read this but I thought the Bliss was specifically designed with the Susvara in mind, similar to the OOR. I emailed Tim and he is expecting an official announcement and order page to be up at the end of August at this point. He said he’s mostly waiting on the chassis’s to arrive as the final delayed part of the amp before he can snap pictures and get everything ready for orders. He mentioned a regular Bliss and KTE bliss as the options.

Love my OOR + Hypsos and don’t see me switching it but still excited to see the full feature set/power of this new amp. Curious if it will be in the “big boy” chassis of the Spring/Serene/May type of deal or a similar OOR type form factor


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## deafenears

Maybe @bimmer100 can enlighten us and share some info.


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## elf21400 (Aug 4, 2022)

About Holo Bliss,
as I confirmed with Jeff,
some information to share:

1. Probably in September.
2. The price will be a little more expensive than Serene.
3. The pre-amp module is included, but if you focus on the performance of the pre-amp, it is recommended to buy Serene separately.
4. Adjustable output impedance, can correspond to different headphones including Susvara.


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## mfgillia

Heard from Tim 2 days ago they will start taking orders later this month.


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## SlothRock

mfgillia said:


> Heard from Tim 2 days ago they will start taking orders later this month.



That’s what I heard too. I’m guessing taking orders and product pictures/info is happening this month but September is when the first units ship.


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## roderickvd

Any word on the topology? Fully balanced? Discrete? MOSFETs, opamps?


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## incredulousity

roderickvd said:


> Any word on the topology? Fully balanced? Discrete? MOSFETs, opamps?


I would expect it to be topologically at least to the level of Azure, but "more so."

I'm interested to see how this would work with Serene, vs. using the on board (or extra, built-in) preamp. Complete details about the topology, power, inputs and outputs will hopefully be forthcoming with the announcement.


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## DJJEZ (Aug 8, 2022)

Very excited for This.


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## sarang-i

I wouldn't be worried about driving capability of Bliss, if that is only considered by output rate(W) which means there is not much of juice to get.
I had a Phonitor E which has output rate of 5W about 40ohm according to manufacturer, while that of holo audio Azure is only 1W.
However, in fact, Azure drives he6se v2 much easier than Phonitor E, and sounds too good. 
From that, i learned output rate(W) is not only one that should be considered, when you match the amplifier to your cans.
And this is exactly what have i told from jeff's product description(taobao).
From my memory, Phonitor E was doing everything make too smooth and most of, microdynamics was fall behind to that of Azure's. (Two amps are compared with both using shunyata venom 3)

And as much as i surprised how azure can swing the power hungry can, I would not hesitate when Bliss released, as it should embrace any cans i think(it is jeff's philosophy actually).


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## GoldenOne (Aug 12, 2022)

I spoke to Jeff about the Bliss a few months back. Afaik it's almost ready now so hopefully we might see it in the next month or so.

From what I understand, originally the Serene was supposed to be both a headphone amp, and a preamplifier. But Jeff decided he could make a better pre and better headphone amp by doing it separately.

The Serene was already far through development, so it kept some stuff like the ability to drive headphones (XLR-1 Outputs have upto 3W @ 32 Ohm full class A, and sound ****ing brilliant), but was focused towards a preamp first, that just so happened to be able to drive headphones.

The Bliss will apparently sound very similar to Serene, but Jeff was aiming for about 10W output power and I'd assume the design might be changed to optimise for driving difficult loads instead of >50kOhm amp inputs, plus of course all the connectivity etc.

I absolutely adored the sound of the Serene as a headphone amp. It was my favourite amp for everything other than Susvara (which needed more juice to sound its best and I ran it through the AHB2).
So if Bliss basically sounds like a Serene but with more power on tap, that's gonna be pretty fantastic. Jeff is still using Susvara as his main headphone I think so it should be a pretty perfect pairing I'd hope


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## deafenears

GoldenOne said:


> I absolutely adored the sound of the Serene as a headphone amp. It was my favourite amp for everything other than Susvara (which needed more juice to sound its best and I ran it through the AHB2).
> So if Bliss basically sounds like a Serene but with more power on tap, that's gonna be pretty fantastic. Jeff is still using Susvara as his main headphone I think so it should be a pretty perfect pairing I'd hope


So to you, this (the Bliss) or the Zahl HM1?


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## GoldenOne

deafenears said:


> So to you, this (the Bliss) or the Zahl HM1?


Impossible to say until I compare the two side by side


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## scootermafia

Bliss is 3x cheaper, if it's even close, and I suspect it will be, it'll be an exceptional value. 
A dealer with a Bliss right now has stopped using AHB2 with Susvara in favor of the Bliss, which says a lot; I may just be using the AHB2 as a speaker amp if the Bliss is competent enough with Susvara, and selling HPA4.


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## GoldenOne

scootermafia said:


> Bliss is 3x cheaper, if it's even close, and I suspect it will be, it'll be an exceptional value.
> A dealer with a Bliss right now has stopped using AHB2 with Susvara in favor of the Bliss, which says a lot; I may just be using the AHB2 as a speaker amp if the Bliss is competent enough with Susvara, and selling HPA4.


Yeah HM1 is unlikely to be an ideal recommendation for most people. As you mentioned, it's going to be about 3x the cost, but even if you can get the money for one, there are only 50 being made per year, all of which have sold out this year and afaik most of next year's units are too. 
HM1 has some features that are excellent from a reviewer's perspective, plus things like the stereo base adjustment and built in EQ. 
Plus the ability to run it either with or without feedback is really nice.
But in a pure SQ question, we will have to wait and see. I'd predict they will both be similar in performance but slightly different in presentation.

I've got an HM1 on order, I'm not sure whether I'll end up buying a Bliss but I will be getting a review unit so will be able to try it out. I absolutely adored the Serene as a headphone amp so if it is a serene with more juice it's going to be stellar


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## incredulousity

scootermafia said:


> Bliss is 3x cheaper, if it's even close, and I suspect it will be, it'll be an exceptional value.
> A dealer with a Bliss right now has stopped using AHB2 with Susvara in favor of the Bliss, which says a lot; I may just be using the AHB2 as a speaker amp if the Bliss is competent enough with Susvara, and selling HPA4.


Good, so it is no longer vaporware. Hopefully we can expect some real information and order soon.


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## scootermafia

Yes, it’s imminent, as an actual working unit is doing its thing at a dealers house.


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## Scarydog

GoldenOne said:


> I spoke to Jeff about the Bliss a few months back. Afaik it's almost ready now so hopefully we might see it in the next month or so.
> 
> From what I understand, originally the Serene was supposed to be both a headphone amp, and a preamplifier. But Jeff decided he could make a better pre and better headphone amp by doing it separately.
> 
> ...


How did the 1266 TC go with the serene?


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## elf21400 (Aug 17, 2022)

Sorry I posted it here,
But I just saw a cool thing:

HoloAudio - Red
(Network Media Player/DDC)
https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/holoaudio-red/


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## Scarydog

elf21400 said:


> Sorry I posted it here,
> But I just saw a cool thing:
> 
> HoloAudio - Red : Network Media Player/DDC
> https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/holoaudio-red/


That looks really interesting!!!

Just have to wait for more info I suppose!


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## JooLoo

Will it have an option for an integrated dac ?


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## rmsanger

Hoping it’s a standalone amp. I want their absolute best amp product possible for the money.  Niimbus us5 pro performance for Volot/soloist 3gt money.


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## JooLoo

rmsanger said:


> Hoping it’s a standalone amp. I want their absolute best amp product possible for the money.  Niimbus us5 pro performance for Volot/soloist 3gt money.


I meant as an add on


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## Nighthawk7397

JooLoo said:


> Will it have an option for an integrated dac ?


Seems unlikely


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## GoldenOne

JooLoo said:


> Will it have an option for an integrated dac ?


It'll be an amp only


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## SlothRock

We gotta be right around the corner from launch/info right? End of August is upon us just next Wednesday


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## JooLoo

GoldenOne said:


> It'll be an amp only


holy crap i lover your videos yo


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## incredulousity

Tim updated me earlier this week. Now saying announcement late September.


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## SlothRock

Aww bummer it got pushed another month but what can ya do. Looking forward to seeing it whenever it's ready!


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## rmsanger

I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't a 2023 release... I've been having email exchanges with them on this since Nov 2021.


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## mortcola

Bliss will be a no-compromise high-powered headphone amp, designed to also meet every need, whim, and craving of the Susvara and its servants. A purpose-build amp for the Susvara by the guys who brought you the May DAC (Jeff Zhu of Holo, and Tim Connor of Kitsune, dealer and distributor).

Its kind of a big deal. The May KTE may be the most precise, revealing, and musically satisfying DAC at any price. There are fine DACs out there, Delta-Sigma as well as R2R designs, some at many multiples of the May's price, but May's performance has a qualitatively different, next-gen, new paradigm feel to it. I haven't been this pumped - and motivated to save money - for a single piece of gear in a very long time. A companion to the May, which also happens to be designed as the perfect Susvara engine. Yeah, a big deal.

Anyone know whether its pronounced Hollow or Hoe-Low?


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## DJJEZ

mortcola said:


> Bliss will be a no-compromise high-powered headphone amp, designed to also meet every need, whim, and craving of the Susvara and its servants. A purpose-build amp for the Susvara by the guys who brought you the May DAC (Jeff Zhu of Holo, and Tim Connor of Kitsune, dealer and distributor).
> 
> Its kind of a big deal. The May KTE may be the most precise, revealing, and musically satisfying DAC at any price. There are fine DACs out there, Delta-Sigma as well as R2R designs, some at many multiples of the May's price, but May's performance has a qualitatively different, next-gen, new paradigm feel to it. I haven't been this pumped - and motivated to save money - for a single piece of gear in a very long time. A companion to the May, which also happens to be designed as the perfect Susvara engine. Yeah, a big deal.
> 
> Anyone know whether its pronounced Hollow or Hoe-Low?


Its pronounced Hollow


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## rmsanger

Just wondering was anyone from Holo at the SoCal Canjam this past weekend?   If so was there any discussion of the bliss?  Release timing/pricing/specs/etc.. ?


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## ozziegurkan

Does anyone know if the Bliss will have Serene preamp capability built in so we can get a 2-in-1? I wonder if I should wait until Bliss is out before I get a Serene.


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## Xevv

Rumors are $3000-4000 range, 12 Watts @ 32 ohms, October announcement, sound similar to the Serene but with more power.


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## incredulousity (Sep 22, 2022)

12W? Will I be able to even use it with my Meze Elites?! 😂

Now wish list is longer:

Serene or better preamp. 
May-like dual mono and power supply.
Must not melt or sound lousy with my Meze Elites.


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## SlothRock

This thing keeps moving dates! Was supposed to be august announcement, September announcement and now October announcement. See y’all in 2023


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## rmsanger (Sep 23, 2022)

Xevv said:


> Rumors are $3000-4000 range, 12 Watts @ 32 ohms, October announcement, sound similar to the Serene but with more power.


I like it... bold pricing and specs.   This could def be my endgame SS HP amp.  I was looking hard at the Soloist 3GT as it has great flexibility with opamps, great pre amp performance, crossfeed, and sub out which is cool for Hp use (Raal SR1A / Mysphere) and for active monitors.

The bliss price target is quite a bit higher than Soloist 3GT, Volot, Hypsos+Oor so the performance is going to have to be dang impressive but the potential is there.  I think the preamp capability if great could put the value prop over the top in feeding power amps for a 2 channel system.  I'm also considering targeting a Trafomatic Head 2 when one comes up and use that as my pre in my hp / 2 channel chain.


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## DJJEZ (Oct 1, 2022)

Non KTE internals


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## rmsanger (Oct 1, 2022)




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## SlothRock

Ok here we go baby! I’m stoked. Definitely appears to be in the big box format of the Spring series/Serene/etc.. can’t wait to see the full unveil.


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## JooLoo

wonder how much itll be i hope sub 3k


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## Nighthawk7397

late october and about 3.5k is what i’ve heard


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## ozziegurkan

I spy twin xlr and RCA inputs as well as one XLR output. Preamp? 

Also, 12 watts into 32, so does this mean 6.5 into 60 aka Susvara?


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## SlothRock

ozziegurkan said:


> I spy twin xlr and RCA inputs as well as one XLR output. Preamp?
> 
> Also, 12 watts into 32, so does this mean 6.5 into 60 aka Susvara?


The one thing I know about this amp, other than the power and size of it, is that it was 100% made using the Susvara. It’s supposed to be a perfect pairing for it and I’m sure any other headphone you’d throw at it as well


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## Scarydog

ozziegurkan said:


> I spy twin xlr and RCA inputs as well as one XLR output. Preamp?
> 
> Also, 12 watts into 32, so does this mean 6.5 into 60 aka Susvara?


Perhaps XLR and RCA output and two XLR + one RCA input?


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## ARCXENOS

I have been waiting for this, pretty excited for it. I'd say from my time from the Spring 3 and May, Holo's "house sound" is smoothness, hopefully it synergizes well with the DACs. I Imagine the bliss would be designed around the hotter-than-normal 5.8vrms output of their dacs


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## Zielarz

I’m a bit surprised, I thought that it’ll be a non compromise design just as May. Like separate power section, maybe one for each channel. I’m glad that it’s not the case because it would have been  much more expensive then. 

I hope it has a preamp in it. I wanted to buy Serene (especially now for Enleum Amp 23R and May combo) but I usually have other things to spend money at. I was thinking about buying Ferrum stack but then I realized that Bliss is around the corner and it’ll be probably around this price range. If it has a preamp then it would be perfect.

Then again there is a Serene so it can be troublesome if they are similarly priced. Or maybe Serene will be withdrawn?


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## deafenears

Zielarz said:


> I hope it has a preamp in it. I wanted to buy Serene (especially now for Enleum Amp 23R and May combo) but I usually have other things to spend money at. I was thinking about buying Ferrum stack but then I realized that Bliss is around the corner and it’ll be probably around this price range. If it has a preamp then it would be perfect.
> 
> Then again there is a Serene so it can be troublesome if they are similarly priced. Or maybe Serene will be withdrawn?


This is what Tim said (bold are my own):


> The bliss will also be a preamp bit not nearly as good as the serene is at being a preamp.
> There are compromises either way. Bliss will be focused being a headphone amp. And serene is focused at being the best preamp, just happens it’s (*serene*) also a decent headamp but wont be at the level of the bliss.


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## mfgillia (Oct 2, 2022)

FYI - Tim is now quoting the price at $2,998 for standard Bliss and $3,398 for the KTE version and will be accepting orders third week of October.


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## rmsanger

interesting usually there is a bigger price spread between KTE and non.. There must be minimal upgrades these perhaps just better caps?


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## kingoftown1

It's the same $400 difference between kte/standard that the Serene has.


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## SlothRock

I’ve heard the Serene volume knob is one of the best out there. Hopefully they’re using the same one in the Bliss as well


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## incredulousity

I plan to order this one early. Probably the limit of what I need in my SS headphone amp/preamp. For variety, tube rolls in Envy, new (to me) music, and tweaks in Roon and HQP settings. I’m even good for headphones for a while.


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## OneEyedHito (Oct 2, 2022)

incredulousity said:


> I plan to order this one early. Probably the limit of what I need in my SS headphone amp/preamp. For variety, tube rolls in Envy, new (to me) music, and tweaks in Roon and HQP settings. I’m even good for headphones for a while.


Order it early for sure, word on the street is that the supply for 2022 will be limited, and 2023 will be normal availability.


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## ozziegurkan

I’m going to sell my Burson GT for this. It will be going up for sale soon. Should I sell it with the upgraded opamps?


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## incredulousity

ozziegurkan said:


> I’m going to sell my Burson GT for this. It will be going up for sale soon. Should I sell it with the upgraded opamps?


Well, you probably won’t use them in Bliss…


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## Xevv

ozziegurkan said:


> I’m going to sell my Burson GT for this. It will be going up for sale soon. Should I sell it with the upgraded opamps?


Same!


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## rmsanger (Oct 5, 2022)

> @ozziegurkan
> I’m going to sell my Burson GT for this. It will be going up for sale soon. Should I sell it with the upgraded opamps?





Xevv said:


> Same!



curious without a review and no specs released but a price point power estimate and a picture... What specifically are you looking for in the bliss that the Soloist GT does not have?  Just trying to understand expectations of the holo amp vs. what we know the performance of the burson is like.?


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## incredulousity

Can’t comment about the Burson at all. I was addressing the question of whether the person would want to keep their op amps from it, nothing more.


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## rmsanger

incredulousity said:


> Can’t comment about the Burson at all. I was addressing the question of whether the person would want to keep their op amps from it, nothing more.


sorry thought I quoted the comment right above yours; need more coffee


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## ozziegurkan

rmsanger said:


> curious without a review and no specs released but a price point power estimate and a picture... What specifically are you looking for in the bliss that the Soloist GT does not have?  Just trying to understand expectations of the holo amp vs. what we know the performance of the burson is like.?


Well, basically a hunch that it will be a great product due to the fact that I own the Spring3 DAC and it is excellent. Also, I know that the Bliss was designed with Susvara in mind which I own and love. Finally, Goldensound reviewed the headphone output of the Serene by itself and raved about it. I guess I’m taking a calculated risk.  I do think the Burson is a little too bright and energetic even with the opamp upgrades and so Im looking to move on from it.


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## Xevv

Comes down to trusting that Jeff Zhu knows what he’s doing. Soloist GT is a great, powerful amp, but always felt a hair off from the “super full” sound that I’m chasing. Given Jeff’s goal of making the best amp for the Susvaras and looking at how meticulous the internals look on this, i believe it will translate to being a better amp than Soloist GT.

Also having this stacked on top of the May will look visually wonderful. “Audio furniture.”


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## rmsanger

Interesting I'll watch the classifieds for your posting.. I've been eyeing a soloist 3GT for sometime (currently own 3XP).. perhaps I try that first before bliss and see if that is sufficient.  I do like the preamp capability, op amp rolling, crossfeed, and sub out. Quite the flexible unit with good performance but perhaps the tradeoff is the last few % in technical performance to Bliss.

I don't own a Sus but am looking at a Mysphere 3.2 and Raal SR1A which would both benefit from the sub out.

Exciting time to be in this hobby with all the options!


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## OneEyedHito (Oct 5, 2022)

rmsanger said:


> Interesting I'll watch the classifieds for your posting.. I've been eyeing a soloist 3GT for sometime (currently own 3XP).. perhaps I try that first before bliss and see if that is sufficient.  I do like the preamp capability, op amp rolling, crossfeed, and sub out. Quite the flexible unit with good performance but perhaps the tradeoff is the last few % in technical performance to Bliss.
> 
> I don't own a Sus but am looking at a Mysphere 3.2 and Raal SR1A which would both benefit from the sub out.
> 
> Exciting time to be in this hobby with all the options!


I have a Mysphere 3.2 with all of the pads and extra cables I could be talked out of for a good price to you, and I’d add that the Burson sounds great, has awesome feature set and is a great match for the Mysphere with a subwoofer.

If you sit right next to your amp like I do then the fan noise is audible through most open back headphones, and especially the Mysphere so place it a bit aways from your listening position and you have a great setup.


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## ozziegurkan

rmsanger said:


> Interesting I'll watch the classifieds for your posting.. I've been eyeing a soloist 3GT for sometime (currently own 3XP).. perhaps I try that first before bliss and see if that is sufficient.  I do like the preamp capability, op amp rolling, crossfeed, and sub out. Quite the flexible unit with good performance but perhaps the tradeoff is the last few % in technical performance to Bliss.
> 
> I don't own a Sus but am looking at a Mysphere 3.2 and Raal SR1A which would both benefit from the sub out.
> 
> Exciting time to be in this hobby with all the options!


I’ll get it listed soon and I’m assuming you will want the opamps as well. I will keep them installed and price it accordingly. It will be on Audiogon. Or DM me and we can discuss.


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## Nighthawk7397

I wonder if bliss will have a 4.4 out or just a 4pin xlr. I could see the 4pin xlr in the photo but not much else


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## bemeurer

Nighthawk7397 said:


> I wonder if bliss will have a 4.4 out or just a 4pin xlr. I could see the 4pin xlr in the photo but not much else


You can see the 4.4 mm connector at the very top-left corner of the photo. It also seems to have 6.35 mm jack.


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## Nighthawk7397

gotcha, wasnt sure if that was 4.4 or something else. thanks!


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## ozziegurkan

bemeurer said:


> You can see the 4.4 mm connector at the very top-left corner of the photo. It also seems to have 6.35 mm jack.


I wonder if the bottom one is the volume control. You might be right that though.


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## Nighthawk7397

I think the bottom one is volume, which is why i was not sure what the top output was since it _looks _like the only output besides the xlr


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## incredulousity

4.4 would be fun. I can fry my IEMs without needing an adapter!

Kidding. Actually, MEST Indigo sound amazing with strong Envy, but Bliss is stronger still.


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## SlothRock

Curious to see how this bad boy measures as well. Holo Audio is the best in the biz of creating fantastic sounding products that normally have distortion associated with them (R2R/NOS) and making the distortion non-existent. I'd imagine the Bliss is gonna be similar. Powerhouse Class A amp that has beautifully minimal distortion


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## incredulousity (Oct 6, 2022)

And yet mysteriously, despite the fact (predicted, assumed, and I agree) it measures well, it will still actually sound good, and better than a lot of other well-measuring amps.

I'm all for distortion on purpose. We call them tube amps. They make a lot of music sound awesome, but not exactly reference.

Seriously, does anyone credible actually think that a Topping D90 and a Holo May KTE sound the same?


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## SlothRock

^^100% - thats the magic of Holo Audio. Blending low distortion with incredible sound at the same time. Takes some incredible engineering and they are the best in the biz at it


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## M3NTAL

I was watching this thread since there was early mention of this amplifier being suitable for the LCD-R, but looking at the specs, I don't think there is any intention of being safe for a 2-Ohm headphone. 🤦‍♂️


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## deafenears

M3NTAL said:


> I was watching this thread since there was early mention of this amplifier being suitable for the LCD-R, but looking at the specs, I don't think there is any intention of being safe for a 2-Ohm headphone. 🤦‍♂️


This was from Jeff in an email back in Dec.:


> Bliss will have a mode that should be able to drive LCD-R well. But I need to one for test.


So a separate mode, but he also mentioned needing a pair to test it and with the LCD-Rs being so rare, likely didn't have one to test to include that functionality.


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## incredulousity

Interesting. So everything except stats, ribbons, and low impedance sensitive IEMs.


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## ozziegurkan

I would not be surprised if sensitive IEMs didn’t sound amazing... You can always fix that issue with an ifi iematch in case.


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## SlothRock

Every day I wake up hoping the official announcement and photos are out! It's gotta be just around the corner


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## Greg121986

Please take my money!! The suspense is killing me! Today seems like a really great day to open up the preorders!


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## SlothRock

I know right? Two weeks left in the month, please give us an announcement!


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## George Hincapie

This looks interesting. Watching.


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## XVampireX

I mean, I just have to get it right, for May KTE pairing


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## incredulousity

XVampireX said:


> I mean, I just have to get it right, for May KTE pairing


That’s my plan and rationale.

Though Envy also goes very well with May KTE. So my bases will be covered.


----------



## ctrlm

incredulousity said:


> XVampireX said:
> 
> 
> > I mean, I just have to get it right, for May KTE pairing
> ...



Interestingly, I bought the older and smaller brother of the Bliss - the fully discrete Holo Audio Azure, some time ago to pair with my Spring 3 KTE. I would describe the sound signature of the Azure as extremely neutral when compared to my Violectric amps - the V550 & V281. 

It didn't work out exactly as planned - but it did work out. 

I'm not suggesting that the Bliss will have exactly the same sound signature as the Azure, but in my use case I much preferred the pairing with my iFi Signature DAC in my desktop setup over the Spring 3. The slightly relaxed character of the Burr Brown DAC implementation is a perfect match for the Azure.  I also prefer the V550 with my Spring 3 in my living room setup when up-sampling via HQ Player. 

This was after weeks of comparisons and trying to find the matches that suited my particular preferences.

So just because something is the same brand, doesn't mean it will be the best pairing  

I'm looking forward to the release of the Bliss and user's impressions.


----------



## XVampireX

incredulousity said:


> That’s my plan and rationale.
> 
> Though Envy also goes very well with May KTE. So my bases will be covered.


For me, tube amps are not an option because of obvious reasons.
My Volot is still great as well on the May KTE, but maybe they've done some synergistic magic for the Bliss.

Though I would want to prioritise a new PC first but will try to get my hands ASAP on the Bliss as well, got a plan more or less.


----------



## incredulousity

XVampireX said:


> For me, tube amps are not an option because of obvious reasons.
> My Volot is still great as well on the May KTE, but maybe they've done some synergistic magic for the Bliss.
> 
> Though I would want to prioritise a new PC first but will try to get my hands ASAP on the Bliss as well, got a plan more or less.


I'm not expecting any magical synergy, but I expect a maximally-performing SS amp, of quality on par with the May KTE. 

Also, I must be an idiot, but the reason for which tube amps are not an option is not obvious to me. Perhaps I missed something in an earlier post.


----------



## XVampireX

incredulousity said:


> I'm not expecting any magical synergy, but I expect a maximally-performing SS amp, of quality on par with the May KTE.
> 
> Also, I must be an idiot, but the reason for which tube amps are not an option is not obvious to me. Perhaps I missed something in an earlier post.



Tubes generally come from a certain place...


----------



## George Hincapie

XVampireX said:


> Tubes generally come from a certain place...


And? Grow up...


----------



## incredulousity

XVampireX said:


> Tubes generally come from a certain place...


Tubes come from many places. It’s pretty easy to avoid Russian tubes. Chinese, not so much. You can buy NOS or stock from vendors in other locations that are sunk costs and don’t directly support products you are trying to avoid to make a statement.


----------



## mfgillia

incredulousity said:


> Tubes come from many places. It’s pretty easy to avoid Russian tubes. Chinese, not so much. You can buy NOS or stock from vendors in other locations that are sunk costs and don’t directly support products you are trying to avoid to make a statement.


Let's not forget the Germans most notably Elrog - King of the 300B. Then there's also Western Electric in the US who will hopefully soon release a new 6SN7.


----------



## SlothRock

Tim let me know yesterday that it will be at the very least the end of October before preorders are allowed up, they're still awaiting pictures to put up on a product page and that the first wave of units is due in soon. Seems like it could still slip past October as far as official launch/preorders but seems to be moving.


----------



## rmsanger

what is kitsune/holo US return policy if I want to be an early adopter evaluate and if things go south return it?


----------



## incredulousity (Oct 19, 2022)

rmsanger said:


> what is kitsune/holo US return policy if I want to be an early adopter evaluate and if things go south return it?


My experience with Tim/Kitsune after sales support has been excellent. I bought used Holo May KTE and Spring 3 KTE used, but still with much remaining warranty. He transferred the remaining warranty to me with no fuss. He made available the updated USB module for spring at reduced cost for me, and was excellent in helping with software/firmware updates for Spring and May. Some of the early Mays had some issues, apparently, and these were all adequately supported/repaired, it seems, from the various internet posts I've read. People who buy $5K DACs are pretty vocal with complaints if they are not!

I would not hesitate to buy from Tim/Kitsune.


----------



## Xevv (Oct 19, 2022)

rmsanger said:


> what is kitsune/holo US return policy if I want to be an early adopter evaluate and if things go south return it?


https://www.kitsunehifi.com/shop/guarantee-return-policy/

I had a brand new Holo May that broke the 2nd day of owning it. They paid for the return shipping and sent me a brand new one. New one has had no issues and my Spring 3 before it had no issues. Tim said they had less than 12 units have the issue I had, and they know what the problem was (mislabeled internal component).

It took 5-6 days before I got my initial response, but once I did, communication felt fluid with Tim. They don’t have a huge CS staff (think it’s just Tim?) so that’s why responses are slow.


----------



## rmsanger (Oct 19, 2022)

So about a $500 + shipping haircut if you don't like the KTE

*Opened merchandise WITHOUT original packaging or materials will not be eligible for return.* Opened merchandise WITH original packaging and materials may be eligible for return within our 10-day satisfaction guarantee policy and will be subject to a 15% restocking fee. Returns MUST include all original parts and packing materials and a KitsuneHifi.com RMA number, or the return will be rejected. KitsuneHifi.com reserves the right to refuse any returns or refunds for merchandise. Spring Dacs or Cyan Dacs, transformers and Isolation transformers are special order Items and do not qualify for the 10-day SGP.


----------



## incredulousity

rmsanger said:


> So about a $500 + shipping haircut if you don't like the KTE
> 
> *Opened merchandise WITHOUT original packaging or materials will not be eligible for return.* Opened merchandise WITH original packaging and materials may be eligible for return within our 10-day satisfaction guarantee policy and will be subject to a 15% restocking fee. Returns MUST include all original parts and packing materials and a KitsuneHifi.com RMA number, or the return will be rejected. KitsuneHifi.com reserves the right to refuse any returns or refunds for merchandise. Spring Dacs or Cyan Dacs, transformers and Isolation transformers are special order Items and do not qualify for the 10-day SGP.


Given that this amp is likely to be in demand, and in short supply at release, I would expect that you would be able to sell it here at minimal or no loss, rather than subjecting yourself to a distasteful buyer's remorse penalty.


----------



## rmsanger

Any updates at all on this?  Do we know anything about features (crossfeed/sub-out), pre amp capabilities (XLR & RCA), accessories (stands or remote) ?

Hoping there were be a pre-buy special or at least some initial inventory on hand for early adopters.


----------



## SlothRock

I mentioned the last update that I received a couple posts up. Likely nothing until end of October, but it still may push a little past October per Tim


----------



## XVampireX

SlothRock said:


> I mentioned the last update that I received a couple posts up. Likely nothing until end of October, but it still may push a little past October per Tim



Sort of the end of October already.


----------



## Chartreuse

I just ordered a May L2, really interested in making it a full stack! Hopefully this is everything people are expecting it to be with the Susvara


----------



## rmsanger

final 7 days of October... tick tock Holo!


----------



## SlothRock

I have a feeling this is gonna be a November launch now


----------



## incredulousity

SlothRock said:


> I have a feeling this is gonna be a November launch now


I fear you are correct. 

First world problems.


----------



## elf21400

I heard that it is the end of October, and Holo Red will also be together, or a very close time to release.


----------



## incredulousity

What is Holo Red?


----------



## ufospls2

incredulousity said:


> What is Holo Red?


Appears to be a network player/DDC

https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/holoaudio-red/


----------



## XVampireX

What do we know thus far regarding Holo Audio products when they just launch, any technical problems?
And also if it continues to November, we've got Black Friday / Chinese New Year / etc... which means more delays until people start getting the amplifier.
I'm thinking of being an early adopter, but early adopter problems are a problem


----------



## George Hincapie

XVampireX said:


> What do we know thus far regarding Holo Audio products when they just launch, any technical problems?
> And also if it continues to November, we've got Black Friday / Chinese New Year / etc... which means more delays until people start getting the amplifier.
> I'm thinking of being an early adopter, but early adopter problems are a problem



I am too risk averse. I much prefer to wait for others to jump, then tell me if the water is warm or not 😊


----------



## incredulousity

I expect that, as long as it has taken to release this amp, that the bugs will be out of it on release. Holo Audio did make a change in May of USB input board, which was made available to early purchasers. There have been several firmware updates to May and Spring.


----------



## XVampireX

Hope you are correct, can't wait for the set, maybe at some point I'll go for the full set depending on for example on the performance of the Preamp on the Bliss compared to the Volot


----------



## mortcola

bemeurer said:


> I'm really curious what the power output will be. The only thing holding me back from getting an Oor/Hypsos is knowing the Bliss is supposed to be around the corner.


Same here. I gave in and bought a Burson Soloist GT, the one with the red accents. The ability to use two DACs and a subwoofer if desired sold it over the Oor, which seemed to run neck and neck with it in reviewer opinions. Couldn't bear a life any longer with a less-than-optimally-driven Susvara. The Big Burson is a pretty great amp. I was able to get excellent performance from a Bryston BHA-1 in balanced mode - which both has 4x its rated the power that way, but, being Bryston, is under-rated and over-engineered... but just couldn't get into the highest volumes I like without feeling mids on down starting to thin and lose luster. 

The Burson is a fantastic amp - the Bryston may beat it in a certain refinement to timbre and texture, through about 3/4 of the volume range, but its pretty close . And I'm finally hearing the Susvara rock fully with an excess of solid-state power keeping it steady and happy... fed the Holo May KTE quality of input.

Now, when the Bliss DOES come out..... well, I'll figure something out.


----------



## Chartreuse

mortcola said:


> Same here. I gave in and bought a Burson Soloist GT, the one with the red accents. The ability to use two DACs and a subwoofer if desired sold it over the Oor, which seemed to run neck and neck with it in reviewer opinions. Couldn't bear a life any longer with a less-than-optimally-driven Susvara. The Big Burson is a pretty great amp. I was able to get excellent performance from a Bryston BHA-1 in balanced mode - which both has 4x its rated the power that way, but, being Bryston, is under-rated and over-engineered... but just couldn't get into the highest volumes I like without feeling mids on down starting to thin and lose luster.
> 
> The Burson is a fantastic amp - the Bryston may beat it in a certain refinement to timbre and texture, through about 3/4 of the volume range, but its pretty close . And I'm finally hearing the Susvara rock fully with an excess of solid-state power keeping it steady and happy... fed the Holo May KTE quality of input.
> 
> Now, when the Bliss DOES come out..... well, I'll figure something out.



Same, I'm using the Soloist 3x GT and loving it. The Bliss though is 12 watts Class A at 32ohm, vs. the Burson which is 8 watts Class A at 32ohm. I'm definitely pushing the Burson at times and it would be nice to have the extra headroom.


----------



## rmsanger

Chartreuse said:


> Same, I'm using the Soloist 3x GT and loving it. The Bliss though is 12 watts Class A at 32ohm, vs. the Burson which is 8 watts Class A at 32ohm. I'm definitely pushing the Burson at times and it would be nice to have the extra headroom.



Interesting that you feel the Soloist 3GT was being pushed by the Sus.   The 3XP was measured by raoultrifan 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bur...muse72320-volume-control.941047/post-15888933


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/bur...muse72320-volume-control.941047/post-15890683

I have not seen measurements of the 3GT but would be shocked if the power isn't measuring over stated output.  I would also be shocked if the Sus was pushing the 3GT near clipping on high gain.   Perhaps there is some compression or the amp is struggling a bit at higher loads but that wasn't something commonly expressed in that amp thread.  Neither here nor there for the bliss just was surprised to get that from the GT.


----------



## Chartreuse

rmsanger said:


> I have not seen measurements of the 3GT but would be shocked if the power isn't measuring over stated output. I would also be shocked if the Sus was pushing the 3GT near clipping on high gain. Perhaps there is some compression or the amp is struggling a bit at higher loads but that wasn't something commonly expressed in that amp thread. Neither here nor there for the bliss just was surprised to get that from the GT.



The only time I feel it's being pushed is when I'm doing DSP through Roon _and _running through HQPlayer, both of which attenuate the level a decent amount. I'll then be running the 3x GT at 75 or so in High Gain (admittedly still a high spl level), which doesn't leave as much head room. I'm not getting clipping, but I have to believe I'd get an improvement in dynamics and slam with more power on tap.


----------



## SlothRock

Ok boys, we got today and Monday left for the October announcement to come to fruition. Here's hoping


----------



## Rayon (Oct 28, 2022)

Chartreuse said:


> The only time I feel it's being pushed is when I'm doing DSP through Roon _and _running through HQPlayer, both of which attenuate the level a decent amount. I'll then be running the 3x GT at 75 or so in High Gain (admittedly still a high spl level), which doesn't leave as much head room. I'm not getting clipping, but I have to believe I'd get an improvement in dynamics and slam with more power on tap.


You should skip all the DSP in Roon and do everything in HQPlayer. If Roon doesn't pass it bit perfect, it has already ruined the sound quality.


----------



## incredulousity

Rayon said:


> You should skip all the DSP in Roon and do everything in HQPlayer. If Roon doesn't pass it bit perfect, it has already ruined the sound quality.


Do the DSP in one or the other, not both. Roon saves the separate DSP settings for the DAC and the DAC via HQPlayer, so this is not even difficult.


----------



## Rayon

incredulousity said:


> Do the DSP in one or the other, not both. Roon saves the separate DSP settings for the DAC and the DAC via HQPlayer, so this is not even difficult.


Yes, Roon or HQplayer. But if one is already using HQPlayer for better filters, then skip the Roon DSP. That's what I do: Roon just passes it to HQPlayer bit perfect and I do upsampling and minimal crossfeed in HQPlayer.


----------



## shwnwllms

Rayon said:


> Yes, Roon or HQplayer. But if one is already using HQPlayer for better filters, then skip the Roon DSP. That's what I do: Roon just passes it to HQPlayer bit perfect and I do upsampling and minimal crossfeed in HQPlayer.



Correct. If you’re using HQP you’ll want to pass the signal bit perfect from Roon to HQP (per Jussi’s recommendation all DSP in Roon should be turned off). Even though Roon has a 64 bit float it’s better to handle through the pipeline matrix in HQP (all PEQ, convolution, cross feed, etc are easily plugged in straight to the matrix)


----------



## bimmer100

incredulousity said:


> I fear you are correct.
> 
> First world problems.


So it’s Halloween and need to update you guys. We are disappointed to not have the product page up today as planned, but the photos and some other very minor but important things for launch need to be done. So need about 2 more weeks. We considered doing a soft launch without photos and info but seems a bit silly. Good news is we have all the parts and starting to produce these. So will be accepting the preorders soon when we can post the Product page with at least a couple photos and some content. And will add to it later, but don’t want to delay this any more than needed.
Thanks for your understanding, as I know this has been a product many of us have been patiently waiting for


----------



## incredulousity (Oct 31, 2022)

Thank you for the update, Tim.

Also, I live within driving distance. If you need photography


----------



## XVampireX

bimmer100 said:


> So it’s Halloween and need to update you guys. We are disappointed to not have the product page up today as planned, but the photos and some other very minor but important things for launch need to be done. So need about 2 more weeks. We considered doing a soft launch without photos and info but seems a bit silly. Good news is we have all the parts and starting to produce these. So will be accepting the preorders soon when we can post the Product page with at least a couple photos and some content. And will add to it later, but don’t want to delay this any more than needed.
> Thanks for your understanding, as I know this has been a product many of us have been patiently waiting for


Thank you for the update, is there gonna be enough units for all of us to start with?


----------



## SlothRock

bimmer100 said:


> So it’s Halloween and need to update you guys. We are disappointed to not have the product page up today as planned, but the photos and some other very minor but important things for launch need to be done. So need about 2 more weeks. We considered doing a soft launch without photos and info but seems a bit silly. Good news is we have all the parts and starting to produce these. So will be accepting the preorders soon when we can post the Product page with at least a couple photos and some content. And will add to it later, but don’t want to delay this any more than needed.
> Thanks for your understanding, as I know this has been a product many of us have been patiently waiting for



Do you guys typically publish measurements with releases like this? I don’t like to go off measurements solely to make my purchasing decisions, but I know Holo Audio is king at making typically high distortion technology (like R2R) into something with ridiculously low distortion and fantastic sound to boot. If that’s the same case with a 12W class A headphone amp that’ll be an awesome sight to see


----------



## XVampireX

SlothRock said:


> Do you guys typically publish measurements with releases like this? I don’t like to go off measurements solely to make my purchasing decisions, but I know Holo Audio is king at making typically high distortion technology (like R2R) into something with ridiculously low distortion and fantastic sound to boot. If that’s the same case with a 12W class A headphone amp that’ll be an awesome sight to see



I've got a good feeling regarding Bliss, with the fact they are taking their time to work on it, and based on how good May is...


----------



## ozziegurkan

I can’t wait. I’m going to compare it to my Ferrum stack and pick between the two. It’s gonna be a fight.


----------



## Nighthawk7397

Supposedly is ready for audition


----------



## SlothRock

Where’d you get that pic from? Looks awesome


----------



## Nighthawk7397

SlothRock said:


> Where’d you get that pic from? Looks awesome


someone posted it to the GoldenSound discord, they mentioned getting it from Jeff in his QQ channel


----------



## SlothRock

Nice that is awesome! The internals look great from that pic.


----------



## ozziegurkan

And it’s the KTE version, so we know that’s coming.


----------



## roderickvd

Looks really good. Four discrete channels. Mundorf, Nichicon, Rubycon caps. Separate supplies for the analog and digital sections.


----------



## OHBH

Where is the volume knob?


----------



## SlothRock

OHBH said:


> Where is the volume knob?


I was wondering this too. Must be fully digital? Apparently the knob on the Serene is to die for so I’m guessing they’re bringing that over to the Bliss.

@GoldenOne are you going to be running measurements on the Bliss?


----------



## Chartreuse (Nov 4, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> I was wondering this too. Must be fully digital? Apparently the knob on the Serene is to die for so I’m guessing they’re bringing that over to the Bliss.



Might be on a jumper that doesn't appear here. If you look at the Serene, there's no obvious connection to the volume knob when looking at the chassis view either (the transformer is on the opposite side in this case).


----------



## SlothRock

Oh boy


----------



## ozziegurkan

Whaaaaat? That’s a massive teaser. Why is not on my rack?


----------



## OneEyedHito

SlothRock said:


> Oh boy


this come from Cameron's dc thread too?


----------



## incredulousity

Link please!


----------



## SlothRock

OneEyedHito said:


> this come from Cameron's dc thread too?



Picture was posted on the GoldenSound Discord channel again


----------



## OneEyedHito

SlothRock said:


> Picture was posted on the GoldenSound Discord channel again


That thread would get me in trouble for certain with my OCD nature.  I get obsessed enough with the threads in here.


----------



## incredulousity

I just went there. Dangerous!

Now that the necessary pix have leaked,

Tim, just please take my money already…

Bliss 120V KTE with preamp please!


----------



## XVampireX

incredulousity said:


> I just went there. Dangerous!
> 
> Now that the necessary pix have leaked,
> 
> ...



Do you think Preamp is gonna be a separate module?


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 4, 2022)

It has been said there is preamp. Maybe they all have it. No one has clarified this yet.

I’m sure the reviewers will soon.


----------



## SlothRock (Nov 4, 2022)

incredulousity said:


> I just went there. Dangerous!
> 
> Now that the necessary pix have leaked,
> 
> ...


Ya, I mean I think I’m a lock on buying this. Now whether I keep it or the Ferrum OOR + Hypsos is the next question. But I mean, come on, look how tidy I can get my desk just stacking this guy on the Spring 3


----------



## incredulousity

Your desk will be no tidier, because you will then want some nice powered speakers for the desk, unless they are already there and cropped out.


----------



## SlothRock

incredulousity said:


> Your desk will be no tidier, because you will then want some nice powered speakers for the desk, unless they are already there and cropped out.



Already got em! They're on stands next to the desk . Neumann KH 120's


----------



## OneEyedHito (Nov 4, 2022)

FYI to those asking if there is a preamp module or preamp specific model for the bliss.

The bliss is an amp, it has volume attenuated preouts, so it is a preamp by design. You will be able to connect your powered speakers to it and the volume (all analog volume btw on the bliss) will attenuate the signal to your powered speakers. It will work just like a dedicated preamp in this configuration.


----------



## ozziegurkan

And a remote control, right, for that beautiful volume control?


----------



## bimmer100

ozziegurkan said:


> And a remote control, right, for that beautiful volume control?


Bliss has remote just like serene


----------



## SlothRock

I’m excited to see how the options work to change gain levels, switch pre outs vs HP outs, etc.. Hoping it’s intuitive through the Menu option and not too many clicks


----------



## Deleeh

bimmer100 said:


> Basically the bliss is like serene. One is better at one thing than the other….
> 
> Bliss is designed for headphones as its primary function!!! But secondary is as a preamp.
> 
> ...


This is exactly how I personally saw Holo Audio's products.

Apropo Cyan, will there be something more or is it definite that nothing more will come in this direction?
I still see occasional offers on Aliexpress🙈


----------



## bimmer100

Deleeh said:


> This is exactly how I personally saw Holo Audio's products.
> 
> Apropo Cyan, will there be something more or is it definite that nothing more will come in this direction?
> I still see occasional offers on Aliexpress🙈


Are you asking… Will there be cyan2???

Yes

But if I misunderstood your post… please clarify


----------



## XVampireX

Uhm, Serene is designed for being a 'Killer Preamp'
But Bliss is not designed to be a 'Killer' Headphone amp?


----------



## Deleeh

bimmer100 said:


> Are you asking… Will there be cyan2???
> 
> Yes
> 
> But if I misunderstood your post… please clarify


Hello,

That would be great news for the Cyan 2.
Hopefully it will be R2R based again,😇.

Unfortunately I missed the first version, but I have read a lot of good things about it.

Thanks for the feedback 🙏🙏🙏


----------



## bimmer100

XVampireX said:


> Uhm, Serene is designed for being a 'Killer Preamp'
> But Bliss is not designed to be a 'Killer' Headphone amp?


??? Why do you say this?


----------



## bimmer100

I remember why I don’t post on forums  bye for now


----------



## deafenears

bimmer100 said:


> I remember why I don’t post on forums  bye for now


Damn... such a loss...


----------



## XVampireX

bimmer100 said:


> ??? Why do you say this?



I'm just trying to read between the lines, you said that Serene is a killer preamp, but you didn't say that Bliss is a killer headphone amp....


----------



## bimmer100

deafenears said:


> Damn... such a loss...


nobody will miss me. I have said enough. Read between the lines if that’s what you need to do. I’ve chimed in to clarify where needed.


----------



## XVampireX

bimmer100 said:


> nobody will miss me. I have said enough. Read between the lines if that’s what you need to do. I’ve chimed in to clarify where needed.


Of course we'll miss you, we need more info


----------



## Xevv (Nov 5, 2022)

XVampireX said:


> Uhm, Serene is designed for being a 'Killer Preamp'
> But Bliss is not designed to be a 'Killer' Headphone amp?


Chill, dude. Don’t nit-pick every little thing said and not said. Obviously it’s implied that the Bliss will be a great headphone amp. Your message added zero value to the conversation.

Think for yourself in this situation. Don’t post such daft comments.


----------



## XVampireX

Xevv said:


> Chill, dude. Don’t nit-pick every little thing said and not said. Obviously it’s implied that the Bliss will be a great headphone amp. Your message added zero value to the conversation.
> 
> Think for yourself in this situation. Don’t post such daft comments.


How about you do that?


----------



## auded33

Welcome info from bimmer100, thanks.
Will have to get my order in for the bliss. Sounds too good to miss out on.


----------



## GoldenOne

SlothRock said:


> I was wondering this too. Must be fully digital? Apparently the knob on the Serene is to die for so I’m guessing they’re bringing that over to the Bliss.
> 
> @GoldenOne are you going to be running measurements on the Bliss?


Volume knob on the Serene was a controller for the relay attenuator. (As opposed to a potentiometer or manual stepped attenuator).
REALLY nice knobfeel (and clicky clacks ) so I'm happy they're bringing that over.

And yeah I'll run measurements unless L7 puts some out first. (I'd assume he'll have a unit first)


----------



## incredulousity

*@bimmer100 I am not expecting such, but some may be curious if there are any analog domain audio shaping features, such as bass/treble shelf, crossfeed, etc. Also, can the rear preamp out be set to pass through the input signal, if not used as preamp?*


----------



## Derek Dean

I'm in the market for an amp for my new Audeze LCD-4 headphones, and this unit certainly has piqued my interest.  I'll look forward to following the progress of this much anticipated release.


----------



## LKir

*Finally...
https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-bliss-headphone-amplifier/*


----------



## SlothRock

LKir said:


> *Finally...
> https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-bliss-headphone-amplifier/*


 Good that the product page is up but there’s not really any info about it yet


----------



## OneEyedHito

SlothRock said:


> Good that the product page is up but there’s not really any info about it yet


Check again.


----------



## LKir

Standard Bliss = $2998.00 + S&H​KTE Bliss = $3398.00 + S&H​Some noted features:​Coming soon… More info.
General info:  (will be updated soon)​


----------



## incredulousity

Orders are live. Ordered!


----------



## Chartreuse

incredulousity said:


> Orders are live. Ordered!



Me too, front of the line baby


----------



## SlothRock

Screw it, putting my blind faith in Holo Audio here lol just ordered KTE bliss


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 6, 2022)

@bimmer100

The text for top part of Bliss page seems wrong, and seems to be an excerpt from the May listing.

Otherwise, pix look great and ordering was uneventful.

Thanks!


----------



## DMITRIY R

The price is unpleasantly surprising. It would be divided by 2.






With one kidney, but with a good amplifier.... life will be more fun. I dial the phone number of my dealer.


----------



## incredulousity

Now begins the wait…

I’m very pleased that Tim used his extra hour from daylight savings time end more productively than the rest of us!

Hopefully some reviews come out soon, since I guess embargo must end today!


----------



## roderickvd (Nov 6, 2022)

.


----------



## roderickvd

roderickvd said:


> What’s the blue Talema transformer for then


There still is a digital section: for the display, the remote, and the attenuator (switching the relays). Just not in the signal path.


----------



## LKir

Herb Reichert from Stereophile 
Holo Audio now also has a new integrated remote… “There is also an optional RMT-3 remote, which will control the Serene and any HoloAudio DAC”


----------



## Deleeh

The Bliss have no Dac inside correct?


----------



## DMITRIY R

Deleeh said:


> The Bliss have no Dac inside correct?


Amplifier and preamp only.


----------



## XVampireX (Nov 6, 2022)

Deleeh said:


> The Bliss have no Dac inside correct?


Correct

Also a side note, Ignorance is Bliss right?


----------



## genefruit

and another one ordered.  CFA3 v. Bliss looms.


----------



## incredulousity

I hope Bliss doesn’t need 500 hours of burn in like May and Spring.


----------



## LKir

incredulousity said:


> I hope Bliss doesn’t need 500 hours of burn in like May and Spring.


I have Holo Serene L1 (pretty the same to Bliss) and for more transparent and dynamic sound it need 240+ hours


----------



## gimmeheadroom

incredulousity said:


> I hope Bliss doesn’t need 500 hours of burn in like May and Spring.



It is now November 6. May and Spring were 5 months ago. If you listen only 100 hours a month it would have been burned in by now


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 6, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> It is now November 6. May and Spring were 5 months ago. If you listen only 100 hours a month it would have been burned in by now


I bought my May and Spring properly used, fortunately. I was spared the burn in almost entirely, though DSD side on May needed about a week.


----------



## SlothRock

I plan on just leaving the bliss on for 2 weeks when it eventually does arrive. That’ll burn it in nice and good


----------



## ericx85

Bliss looks like a pretty chonky sized amp! Can't wait to see the first reviews


----------



## ozziegurkan

OMG. I did it, too. So, I now need to fund it. Of course, if it beats out the OOR, that should take care of it. Time to list more items for sale! 

I’m excited about the fact that I can feed it as a preamp to my WA5LE that’s incoming so I can actually remote control it. That’s bussing!


----------



## SlothRock

ozziegurkan said:


> OMG. I did it, too. So, I now need to fund it. Of course, if it beats out the OOR, that should take care of it. Time to list more items for sale!
> 
> I’m excited about the fact that I can feed it as a preamp to my WA5LE that’s incoming so I can actually remote control it. That’s bussing!


 You and me are both going to be comparing the Bliss to the OOR. Excited to compare!


----------



## LKir

MagnaHiFi also ready

https://magnahifi.com/stereo-amplifiers/pre-amplifiers/?pa_brand=holo-audio


----------



## lsantista

me I'm hoping dynamic/planars "normal" HPs also keep evolving.. Im not very experienced myself, but from reading here, I see some very nice, powerful and significantly improved headphone amplifiers in the past few 3-4 years; but what really has upgraded on the dynamic/planar HP world? Not sure. Susvara I hear, but wha about others?


----------



## Xevv (Nov 6, 2022)

lsantista said:


> me I'm hoping dynamic/planars "normal" HPs also keep evolving.. Im not very experienced myself, but from reading here, I see some very nice, powerful and significantly improved headphone amplifiers in the past few 3-4 years; but what really has upgraded on the dynamic/planar HP world? Not sure. Susvara I hear, but wha about others?


In terms of upgrades, only thing I can think of is electrostats moving forward. See GoldenSound's review of the Warwick Acoustics' Aperio. I don't think planars have gotten any better since Susvara in terms of technicalities at least, and dynamics have gotten any better than Verite Open/Closed (or ZMF Atrium if you like that sound more!) and/or Utopia.

ZMF is releasing their Caldera (first planar) very soon, but from all the reviews it feels like just a ZMF take on "planar" and not really "progression" in the planar world. More like "exploration."


----------



## XVampireX

I made my order today, so I'll get to compare against Volot, seen a few extra details that might have not been documented/mentioned in terms of functionality.
GoldenSound gang here


----------



## genefruit

XVampireX said:


> I made my order today, so I'll get to compare against Volot, seen a few extra details that might have not been documented/mentioned in terms of functionality.
> GoldenSound gang here


care to share?


----------



## mfgillia

genefruit said:


> care to share?


IMHO most notable so far seems to be the option to switch between hi and low Z in the menu settings.


----------



## incredulousity

What impedance range for high and lo Z, I wonder.


----------



## XVampireX

genefruit said:


> care to share?


Yeah, what mfgillia said basically


----------



## Rayon

Comparison wishes: SparkoS Aries, Niimbus, Pass HPA-1.


----------



## XVampireX

I mean here's a short video of the settings menu if anyone finds anything else:


----------



## SlothRock

XVampireX said:


> I mean here's a short video of the settings menu if anyone finds anything else:




A lot more simple and intuitive than I was anticipating which I’m a big fan of! Can’t stand menu scrolling. Good stuff


----------



## incredulousity

Looks like standard Holo Audio interface, but nicely streamlined to use the knob.


----------



## ericx85

Do the preamp and HP out get signal at the same time? Or can they be set individually? Usually try to stay away from HP amps that cant toggle between outputs, but Holo is probably the only time I'd make an exception.


----------



## OneEyedHito

ericx85 said:


> Do the preamp and HP out get signal at the same time? Or can they be set individually? Usually try to stay away from HP amps that cant toggle between outputs, but Holo is probably the only time I'd make an exception.


Holo is a Toggle, not both outputs at same time.  Now historically RCA and XLR preouts are both active at the same time though.


----------



## rmsanger

Just based upon initial pass of the form factor, components, and packaging seems to be a very compelling choice at the price point for KTE version.   Look forward to hearing reviews/impressions especially compared to Volot, Oor + Hypsos, Soloist 3x GT, and dare I even say the Enleum amp.

I do like the pre capabilities of xlr and rca as well as the hp output selections.  It would have been nice to have a sub out and cross-feed but as long as the amp stage is top notch it's a fine omission.  will be interested in the quality of the volume control, the gain levels, noise floor, and dynamics.  Perhaps this will be the go to option for 1266 phi tc / Sus owners to pair with Holo May.


----------



## SlothRock

ericx85 said:


> Do the preamp and HP out get signal at the same time? Or can they be set individually? Usually try to stay away from HP amps that cant toggle between outputs, but Holo is probably the only time I'd make an exception.



Watch the video that was posted above - you have to select the "Line out" (preamp) or HP out w/ Low Z or High Z as the output options. I also like the fact that you have to toggle between the two. I feel like my OOR gets extra hot because all outputs are running at once.


----------



## ozziegurkan

SlothRock said:


> Watch the video that was posted above - you have to select the "Line out" (preamp) or HP out w/ Low Z or High Z as the output options. I also like the fact that you have to toggle between the two. I feel like my OOR gets extra hot because all outputs are running at once.


Do we know what the wattage or volts difference is between the two impedance switches? I am assuming the switchover is around 100 ohms. So, everything planar and low-impedance dynamic (utopia, stellia, etc.) is Low-Z and else is high-Z like ZMF, Senn, Beyer, etc.


----------



## SlothRock

ozziegurkan said:


> Do we know what the wattage or volts difference is between the two impedance switches? I am assuming the switchover is around 100 ohms. So, everything planar and low-impedance dynamic (utopia, stellia, etc.) is Low-Z and else is high-Z like ZMF, Senn, Beyer, etc.



I haven't been able to find out any details on when/where to use Low and High Z just yet - I'm sure we'll hear soon since review units are out in the wild and I imagine the product page will update with this info soon. Maybe @bimmer100 could help?


----------



## Rayon

Also something that I'm interested in: When used in May -> Bliss -> Utopia, can one get the volume low enough? With SparkoS Aries my only complaint has been that even the lowest volume setting is quite loud in this chain. I'm using HQPlayer so it's not a complete deal killer, but digital volume control just doesn't feel the right way at this level.


----------



## SlothRock

Rayon said:


> Also something that I'm interested in: When used in May -> Bliss -> Utopia, can one get the volume low enough? With SparkoS Aries my only complaint has been that even the lowest volume setting is quite loud in this chain. I'm using HQPlayer so it's not a complete deal killer, but digital volume control just doesn't feel the right way at this level.


Agree with this 100% - it was actually one of the reasons why I got rid of my Burson GT for the Ferrum OOR+Hypsos. Volume adjustment wasn't good enough, even with low gain and the volume at 1 in some cases. Hoping Bliss solves this and the volume control is perfect


----------



## ozziegurkan

SlothRock said:


> Agree with this 100% - it was actually one of the reasons why I got rid of my Burson GT for the Ferrum OOR+Hypsos. Volume adjustment wasn't good enough, even with low gain and the volume at 1 in some cases. Hoping Bliss solves this and the volume control is perfect


I think if there is a 4.4mm output to support IEMs, my guess is that you would use this for super-sensitive headphones. Or, at least, the thought is in the design itself.


----------



## incredulousity

ozziegurkan said:


> I think if there is a 4.4mm output to support IEMs, my guess is that you would use this for super-sensitive headphones. Or, at least, the thought is in the design itself.


Not to mention IEMs that actually like "real" headphone amps, like UM MEST Indigo.


----------



## SlothRock

Oh ya, totally. I have enough faith in Holo's design philosophy that this wouldn't be an oversight (especially with the IEM input) but I guess we'll see soon once reviews/more details are put out


----------



## Rayon (Nov 7, 2022)

And I have Softears Cerberus. It's an amazing headphone. In a way it's the best headphone I've heard, including Focal Utopia. But it's also:

Sensitivity: *104dB*/100mV@1kHz
Impedance: *5Ω*@1kHz(±15%)

It's a long way down to listenable volume levels from May's 2.9V. At the moment I'm listening to SparkoS Aries at it's lowest volume setting and I also attenuate the sound digitally in HQPlayer by 15db and it's still not quiet, but rather "normal relaxed" listening level. Aries should go 20db lower than it currently does to enable listener to listen Softears Cerberus quietly.


----------



## George Hincapie

Rayon said:


> Comparison wishes: SparkoS Aries, Niimbus, Pass HPA-1.


The comparison with Pass HPA1 interests me most. I already own a TOTL OTL HPA and am looking for a suitable SS to add to the stable.


----------



## teknorob23

Rayon said:


> Also something that I'm interested in: When used in May -> Bliss -> Utopia, can one get the volume low enough? With SparkoS Aries my only complaint has been that even the lowest volume setting is quite loud in this chain. I'm using HQPlayer so it's not a complete deal killer, but digital volume control just doesn't feel the right way at this level.


I used the serene kte with May and utopia for a long time as it was my favourite amp for utopia by some distance. Resolution, speed dynamics and tonal clarity were the best I’ve heard. The serene obvs has less power but listening around 70db I had the volume at around a third. I have switched to Diana TCs which are as hard ti run as the susvaras and at the moment I run them out of my 2 channel speaker outs. I’m only interested in the bliss for dtc and if I didn’t need the juice I would stick with serene as it’s the best preamp I’ve heard even compared to amps cost £15k+. I will definitely be keeping it on preamp duties. 

For the record the serene was far more resolving than the ferrum stack, pass labs and benchmark. The volume is a work of art. I would be very surprised if the bliss doesn’t deliver similar level of performance just with more power.

Proof of course will be in the hearing, so hopefully not too long to wait to find out.


----------



## XVampireX

I also have the May and Utopia and like I already mentioned getting the Bliss though I have a more powerful amplifier Volot which is 16W at 32 ohms and it has 4 gain settings at low setting for the Utopia I can work around 10-12 on the clock give or take.
I'm sure Bliss will be fine for Driving the Utopia especially since it has a high and low impedance matching so shouldn't be a problem and the volume is also numerical so it should scale well for volume.

If based on what you're saying Serene was so Resolving and such, I guess Bliss should be just as good but dedicated headphone amplifier with more juice for the dynamics if lacking.

My Volot is also excellent for Dynamics, contrary to what people were saying, when the song requires it.


----------



## teknorob23

XVampireX said:


> I also have the May and Utopia and like I already mentioned getting the Bliss though I have a more powerful amplifier Volot which is 16W at 32 ohms and it has 4 gain settings at low setting for the Utopia I can work around 10-12 on the clock give or take.
> I'm sure Bliss will be fine for Driving the Utopia especially since it has a high and low impedance matching so shouldn't be a problem and the volume is also numerical so it should scale well for volume.
> 
> If based on what you're saying Serene was so Resolving and such, I guess Bliss should be just as good but dedicated headphone amplifier with more juice for the dynamics if lacking.
> ...



Flux had a magic touch and i'm gutted that i didnt pull my finger out and order a Volot. The FA12 is still one of my favourite amps. Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesnt the VOLOT have a similar tuning to the FA12, just with a far more resolving, powerful and bigger sound, similarly leaning to just the warm-side of "neutral". The Serene is closer to "neutral" or at least my interpretation of neutral, but still adding the tinest shot of warmth and consequently weight to the source component (in my case 90% of the time the May) compared to something clinical and to my ears lifeless like the benchmark. The serene is more tonally even handed than the bombastic but super enjoyable Ferrum stack, more resolving and cleaner than the Pass labs HPA1. From the those amps that i've been lucky enough to spend a decent amount of time with i would say the sparkos aries is the closest in tuning to the serene, but again the serene provides greater clarity and so far scales to match everything i've fed it with on the resolution front... BUT as i say the serene cant drive the Dianas. Saying that neither could any of the amps i mentioned, at least not when compared to running them out of the speaker outputs with my neurochrome power amp/ serene pre combo. 

I appreciate this will read as an almost perfect example of a first world problem...But it is pain having to unplug my speakers everytime i want to listen to the Dianas and vice versa, enter the Bliss with more power and a sound which is hopefully as good or better than my current combo. Really looking forward hearing what everyone else thinks of it!


----------



## Rayon

teknorob23 said:


> Flux had a magic touch and i'm gutted that i didnt pull my finger out and order a Volot. The FA12 is still one of my favourite amps. Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesnt the VOLOT have a similar tuning to the FA12, just with a far more resolving, powerful and bigger sound, similarly leaning to just the warm-side of "neutral". The Serene is closer to "neutral" or at least my interpretation of neutral, but still adding the tinest shot of warmth and consequently weight to the source component (in my case 90% of the time the May) compared to something clinical and to my ears lifeless like the benchmark. The serene is more tonally even handed than the bombastic but super enjoyable Ferrum stack, more resolving and cleaner than the Pass labs HPA1. From the those amps that i've been lucky enough to spend a decent amount of time with i would say the sparkos aries is the closest in tuning to the serene, but again the serene provides greater clarity and so far scales to match everything i've fed it with on the resolution front... BUT as i say the serene cant drive the Dianas. Saying that neither could any of the amps i mentioned, at least not when compared to running them out of the speaker outputs with my neurochrome power amp/ serene pre combo.
> 
> I appreciate this will read as an almost perfect example of a first world problem...But it is pain having to unplug my speakers everytime i want to listen to the Dianas and vice versa, enter the Bliss with more power and a sound which is hopefully as good or better than my current combo. Really looking forward hearing what everyone else thinks of it!


I'm absolutely amazed, if Serene brings more clarity than Aries. Listening to it, I've been already sure that it's like 99,999% of the theoretical maximum of what the laws of physics allow


----------



## teknorob23

Rayon said:


> I'm absolutely amazed, if Serene brings more clarity than Aries. Listening to it, I've been already sure that it's like 99,999% of the theoretical maximum of what the laws of physics allow



i think you'd be right in most situations and systems but when compared directly using resolving partnering kit in every part of the chain, switching from the aries to serene i could hear instant improvement in overall clarity across the board. I'm talking about small margins, but enough that given the choice, once heard i would find it hard to go back from. The difference in tonal clarity particularly stands out, whereby you can far better hear the  nuance/ change in the tone of note from its initial impact through its decay. I totally appreciate i'm pretty OCD about this and of course my user priorities are not typical in that i'm using my kit to evaluate things we make where i want to be able to hear any impact on sound that even the smallest of tweaks might cause.


----------



## XVampireX

I don't know if FA-12 cause I didn't go to their mid-tier amps but it feels to me like Volot is rather Neutral, with maybe a touch warmth but maybe that also comes from the DAC, or maybe even not exactly warmth but smoothness with dynamics where needed. I don't know Utopia are capable of more than this, but I'm interested to see what a set like May KTE and Bliss KTE would bring to the table as Synergy.

I was just commenting on the dynamics of Volot because somehow somewhere they compared Volot to Oor\Hypsos and they said that Oor has more punch... hmmm....


----------



## SlothRock

teknorob23 said:


> I used the serene kte with May and utopia for a long time as it was my favourite amp for utopia by some distance. Resolution, speed dynamics and tonal clarity were the best I’ve heard. The serene obvs has less power but listening around 70db I had the volume at around a third. I have switched to Diana TCs which are as hard ti run as the susvaras and at the moment I run them out of my 2 channel speaker outs. I’m only interested in the bliss for dtc and if I didn’t need the juice I would stick with serene as it’s the best preamp I’ve heard even compared to amps cost £15k+. I will definitely be keeping it on preamp duties.
> 
> For the record the serene was far more resolving than the ferrum stack, pass labs and benchmark. The volume is a work of art. I would be very surprised if the bliss doesn’t deliver similar level of performance just with more power.
> 
> Proof of course will be in the hearing, so hopefully not too long to wait to find out.



Thanks for posting this! Makes me even more excited that I got my order in early . Very interesting that you found the Serene far more resolving than the Ferrum stack, I'm excited to compare the Bliss to my OOR/Hypsos. What about bass impact? The Ferrum stack is fantastic at adding some of that warmth/extra bass punch which is something I've loved about it. Would you describe the Serene as punchy + extremely resolving?


----------



## sparkylarky

SlothRock said:


> Thanks for posting this! Makes me even more excited that I got my order in early . Very interesting that you found the Serene far more resolving than the Ferrum stack, I'm excited to compare the Bliss to my OOR/Hypsos. What about bass impact? The Ferrum stack is fantastic at adding some of that warmth/extra bass punch which is something I've loved about it. Would you describe the Serene as punchy + extremely resolving?


can't wait for your posts comparing the Bliss to the Ferrum stack


----------



## teknorob23

SlothRock said:


> Thanks for posting this! Makes me even more excited that I got my order in early . Very interesting that you found the Serene far more resolving than the Ferrum stack, I'm excited to compare the Bliss to my OOR/Hypsos. What about bass impact? The Ferrum stack is fantastic at adding some of that warmth/extra bass punch which is something I've loved about it. Would you describe the Serene as punchy + extremely resolving?



The Serene is to all intents and purposes linear and transparent representation of the source and chain running into it, whereas the Ferrum presents a slightly coloured rendition of the source, all while still being highly resolving and very enjoyable. The serene while being transparent somehow manages to add impact, drive and weight to the bass, all without ever sounding exaggerated or uneven. Its kind of everything the Benchmark isnt, in that the benchmark is also transparent, uncoloured and nearly as resolving, but just sounds dead by comparison.  

If the Bliss follows suit with the same characteristics as the Serene, then the transport and source you play through it will have a big impact on what you hear out of it. The good news is that its the perfect compliment to the May and i would expect the with Spring too. If i were selling it i would include it as the 3rd box with May, because it lets you hear everything the May's got, just with a bit more speed and low end drive and touch more space too.

Cant believe we've got to wait a month to find out for sure.... damn i hope the Bliss isnt Holo's first lemon!


----------



## incredulousity

It will be a long month, but I expect Tim has some in reviewers' hands long before that, so at least we get some detailed impressions.


----------



## ericx85

Caved and ordered. That amp is the definition of one and done. Don't have my May anymore only because I just didn't like it when I had to use it without HQPlayer, but if there's one thing no one can deny is that Holo knows how to build insanely good gear (I'll probably end up getting May 2 whenever it becomes a thing lol).


----------



## XVampireX

ericx85 said:


> Caved and ordered. That amp is the definition of one and done. Don't have my May anymore only because I just didn't like it when I had to use it without HQPlayer, but if there's one thing no one can deny is that Holo knows how to build insanely good gear (I'll probably end up getting May 2 whenever it becomes a thing lol).


You felt like you were missing out? I don't feel like I'm missing out without the oversampling though HQPlayer definitely adds to the sound in many different ways, but it's not a deal killer and HQPlayer while a great application a bit too complicated to use unless you know what you're doing or have the time to play around with it.



incredulousity said:


> It will be a long month, but I expect Tim has some in reviewers' hands long before that, so at least we get some detailed impressions.



GoldenSound should have one tomorrow, the crazier part is that since GoldenSound has also ordered the HM1 which apparently many claim to be the best thing since sliced bread, and if Bliss matches it on sound, Bliss is literally a steal.


----------



## Nighthawk7397 (Nov 8, 2022)

I am holding out to see some reviews, really interested in the comparison with the ferrum stack and the ahb2. Hell maybe even the zahl-hm1 or riviera aic-10 if anyone ever gets them in the same room lol.

Definitely going to be a long month until then though!


----------



## SlothRock

ericx85 said:


> Caved and ordered. That amp is the definition of one and done. Don't have my May anymore only because I just didn't like it when I had to use it without HQPlayer, but if there's one thing no one can deny is that Holo knows how to build insanely good gear (I'll probably end up getting May 2 whenever it becomes a thing lol).



I love my Spring 3 solely used in NOS and don’t feel it’s worth the extra $2-3k for that 5-10% improvement from the May, BUT if they release a May 2 that has equally good hardware upsampling as they have for NOS I think I may cave and get it lol. I just don’t want to be bothered figuring out HQ Player and want to play direct out of Qobuz with no hassle (which sounds incredible as is right now)


----------



## Delta9K (Nov 8, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> I love my Spring 3 solely used in NOS and don’t feel it’s worth the extra $2-3k for that 5-10% improvement from the May, BUT if they release a May 2 that has equally good hardware upsampling as they have for NOS I think I may cave and get it lol.


I feel the OOR stack & Bliss when it arrives on scene are both price appropriate and technically commensurate with the Spring3 KTE, but stepping into a $6K+ DAC be it a May, Rockna, Baltic3 etc. etc. then the Ferrum, Bliss and other $3.5 - 4K amp offerings would most likely be out classed and a bit of a miss match (long-term).

FWIW I am speculating and have not heard the Bliss yet nor are there any reviews of SQ so all is up in the air.


----------



## ericx85

May with music without HQPlayer was ok for me, but I use my PC for other things such as Youtube, occasional games etc and in NOS mode it just didn't click for me for those uses. The OS didn't help either. May is absolutely great with music(the best in my opinion). It's just I didn't want to be tethered to HQplayer to get the best out of it for specifically my use case. If May 2  does have improved native OS, I'm jumping on it the second preorders go up. For now I'm sticking with a DS dac that comes close enough until that day comes.


----------



## SlothRock

Very interesting! I’ve preferred my Spring 3 over my previous Bifrost 2 for every single use case and I’m an avid gamer and watch YouTube a bunch alongside the high quality stuff on Qobuz. Different strokes as is common in this hobby


----------



## Delta9K (Nov 8, 2022)

Nighthawk7397 said:


> Definitely going to be a long month until then though!


I was an early adopter of the Spring 3 KTE - preordered on Day 1 but this time I'm resisting the urges no matter how much I am tempted, and will wait until some units make it into real world non-reviewer ownership to see how things go first. Especially interested in Spring3 KTE+Bliss+Susvara performance.


----------



## Nighthawk7397

My hesitation stems from that I usually only buy used gear, so if I am going to be buying something new, I really would like to see some reviews of it first. I have a good feeling though based on other's feedback on the serene.


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 9, 2022)

Now I really want my Bliss sooner, since Envy has developed a problem, and will need service. Fortunately, I ordered extremely early in the morning on the announcement date, so I may be lucky if there are a few already in the pipeline.

Hereby begging Tim to expedite! 😂


----------



## XVampireX

GoldenSound is supposed to get one very soon (Supposedly today) and we'll see


----------



## Rayon

@GoldenOne could you please also try May (bit perfect, without HQPlayer's attenuation) -> Bliss -> some sensitive IEM when you do the review? Would be interested to hear how low it can go. Can't remember if you have any IEMs, but just some basic Sennheiser CX300-II should do for this test and give potential IEM users really valuable reference point.


----------



## mfgillia

XVampireX said:


> GoldenSound is supposed to get one very soon (Supposedly today) and we'll see


Yep, it just arrived. We should get some initial impressions soon.


----------



## GoldenOne

Impressions soon


----------



## Chartreuse

GoldenOne said:


> Impressions soon



Can't wait! And what is that thing next to it?


----------



## SlothRock

GoldenOne said:


> Impressions soon


Lets gooooooo!!! Need impressions stat


----------



## rmsanger

GoldenOne said:


> Impressions soon


Get her warmed up!


----------



## incredulousity

Is Red just a DDC then? Looks pretty spartan for a streamer.


----------



## incredulousity

Chartreuse said:


> Can't wait! And what is that thing next to it?


And also, it appears that I have both of the headphones on the back counter. Review will be pretty relevant for me.


----------



## SlothRock

@GoldenOne Please tell my you have a Susvara for testing as well . I know this amp was pretty much built around the Susvara, which is why I got it, so very interested in hearing the synergy there


----------



## incredulousity

I'm more interested in how it works with Meze Elite, but Susvara is always the acid test. Elite sounds good on any amp that doesn't suck. There is a difference between good and optimal, of course. Elite scales up with every amp improvement I make. HD800/S are a good surrogate for demanding dynamics, and Raal CA-1A is a What headphone that I am just getting literally today.


----------



## GoldenOne

incredulousity said:


> Is Red just a DDC then? Looks pretty spartan for a streamer.


It's both a DDC and a streamer.
Can be connected via USB as a DDC, or you can hook up ethernet and use it as a streamer. Pretty nice having the option for both.
I'm using it as a streamer atm.


SlothRock said:


> @GoldenOne Please tell my you have a Susvara for testing as well . I know this amp was pretty much built around the Susvara, which is why I got it, so very interested in hearing the synergy there


I do, Susvara is my reference headphone


----------



## XVampireX

Don't forget to get the measurements!!!


----------



## genefruit

GoldenOne said:


> It's both a DDC and a streamer.
> Can be connected via USB as a DDC, or you can hook up ethernet and use it as a streamer. Pretty nice having the option for both.
> I'm using it as a streamer atm.
> 
> I do, Susvara is my reference headphone


Can it act as a NAA for HQP and if so, what are the max DSD & PCM rates?


----------



## Delta9K

Chartreuse said:


> Can't wait! And what is that thing next to it?


That is the Holo Audio Red a Network media player DDC. Nice to see it too on GO's desk.

( https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/holoaudio-red/ )


----------



## GoldenOne

XVampireX said:


> Don't forget to get the measurements!!!


I will, but I always do my listening first. Will probably do measurements in a few days once I've got my subjective views solidified


----------



## GoldenOne

genefruit said:


> Can it act as a NAA for HQP and if so, what are the max DSD & PCM rates?


Yep
When using as a streamer there is a CM4 acting as the brain. Apparently an official OS image will come with it stock, but it's not quite done yet. For now I'm just using RopieeeXL which is working flawlessly with both Roon and HQP at 1.536mhz via USB.

I2S out is limited to 768khz/DSD512


----------



## PcChip

Don't forget to compare Bliss to the XLR1 outs of Serene


----------



## OneEyedHito

GoldenOne said:


> I will, but I always do my listening first. Will probably do measurements in a few days once I've got my subjective views solidified


As it should be!


----------



## Since1991

When is that DDC supposed to be released?


----------



## SlothRock

I'm positively giddy that this thing is already in the wild for a few reviewers. Fingers crossed for the impressions to be top knotch, as expected .


----------



## incredulousity

Since1991 said:


> When is that DDC supposed to be released?


Tim said very soon, but not quite concurrently with Bliss, in an email a month or two ago.


----------



## GoldenOne (Nov 9, 2022)

PcChip said:


> Don't forget to compare Bliss to the XLR1 outs of Serene


(With the Serene comparisons I'm going by memory, I don't have it here unfortunately).

In regards to Bliss vs Serene, this is noticeably more dynamic. Overall tonality seems the same. Resolving capability is a step up too (as a hp amp, have not tried it as a pre yet). But the biggest difference is that this thing is PUNCHY, and the tactile/holographic nature with which it places stuff is simply awesome.

That's what's impressing me the most right now, the combination of a soundstage that is both more expansive than most amps I've heard AND better layered, but with some top tier dynamics and percussive force? **** this is good.....

https://song.link/gb/i/1148145830


----------



## SlothRock

Love the description of it being punchy! That's one thing I love about my OOR/Hypsos but was a little concerned on about the Bliss and happy to see it hits that mark well. How is the volume control? Is it easy to set the volume exactly where you want it and not too loud at the lowest volumes (like my Burson GT was)? Also not too many scrolls to get the volume up/down the way you want it?


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 9, 2022)

Thats all I _needed_ to hear. Now I await further juicy details.

... and for mine to ship.


----------



## GoldenOne

SlothRock said:


> How is the volume control?


----------



## M3NTAL

Have you found a separate mode for ultra low Z? Still curious about it's LCD-R compatability.


----------



## GoldenOne

M3NTAL said:


> Have you found a separate mode for ultra low Z? Still curious about it's LCD-R compatability.


LCD-R is not really an output impedance issue. (Bliss and many other amps have a near 0 Ohm output impedance), that's an issue with whether the amp is stable into a load that low.
You'd need to contact Holo and ask about that I imagine. OR run it through a TI-1B or something


----------



## lsantista

is there a separate thread (for speculation or otherwise) of the Red streamer? Via USB it should be able to do 1024 DSD, right, to take full potential of Holo Dacs..
on its looks being spartan, indeed, but it does looks very nice to me compared to Rendus, which must be a direct competitor..


----------



## incredulousity

lsantista said:


> is there a separate thread (for speculation or otherwise) of the Red streamer? Via USB it should be able to do 1024 DSD, right, to take full potential of Holo Dacs..
> on its looks being spartan, indeed, but it does looks very nice to me compared to Rendus, which must be a direct competitor..


I would not mind a black/copper version either, though red is my favorite color.


----------



## Since1991

I'm very interested in how the new DDC performs as well. I was too low on fund to go through with the very early order of the Bliss, but I'm for sure getting one on order as well sooner or later.


----------



## incredulousity

I'm curious whether Red can use wifi, or does it require hardwire ethernet?


----------



## Delta9K

From the photos I've seen it has an ethernet port and no antenna so assuming wired only


----------



## Rantenti

GoldenOne said:


>



What's the 4-pin XLR connector you were using in this video? Thanks


----------



## Rantenti

GoldenOne said:


> (With the Serene comparisons I'm going by memory, I don't have it here unfortunately).
> 
> In regards to Bliss vs Serene, this is noticeably more dynamic. Overall tonality seems the same. Resolving capability is a step up too (as a hp amp, have not tried it as a pre yet). But the biggest difference is that this thing is PUNCHY, and the tactile/holographic nature with which it places stuff is simply awesome.
> 
> ...


Seems a wonderful match with susvara, as it is not known for the widest soundstage. Looking forward to your impressions with other headphones as well.

The Serene is indeed a bit laid back as I have compared Spring 3 KTE direct to amp and with the Serene in the chain.


----------



## GoldenOne

Rantenti said:


> Seems a wonderful match with susvara, as it is not known for the widest soundstage. Looking forward to your impressions with other headphones as well.
> 
> The Serene is indeed a bit laid back as I have compared Spring 3 KTE direct to amp and with the Serene in the chain.


Yeah Susvara stage has always been interesting. There's various headphones that stage deeper or wider (or taller) than it does, but at the same time, I'm not sure any headphone beats it in terms of QUALITY of stage.
The layering/imaging on Susvara is sublime


----------



## XVampireX

Is it sublime because of Bliss or is it in general sublime?


----------



## Arniesb

This amp looks more impressive than any headphone amp i ever seen and for a fair price!
Highly impressive what Holo Audio folks are doing, it doesnt look like a graveyard of parts just to impress folks.
You have amps like Enleum that costs a lot more and doesnt even have shielded toroidal while this one have beastly linear that is properly shielded.

I suspect that May or Spring 3 with this will sound incredibly dynamic, wide and transparent.


----------



## centuriones

I'm curious to know the possible combination between Holo Bliss and Meze Elite


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 10, 2022)

centuriones said:


> I'm curious to know the possible combination between Holo Bliss and Meze Elite


I’ll let you know when my Bliss arrives.

@GoldenOne probably has Elite and will beat everyone to it.


----------



## ericx85

I'll definitely post impressions with Stealth and Expanse whenever mine shows up. Though I will admit I'm a little surprised the streamer doesn't do 1.5mhz pcm/1024 DSD. As great as the Titanis USB is, I definitely preferred i2s on the May when I had it. Sounded a little clearer(enough to notice) and got rid of the smidge of latency on my PC that the USB input had. But there's always the other possibility Titanis 3.0 is even better if it becomes a thing.


----------



## GoldenOne

ericx85 said:


> I'll definitely post impressions with Stealth and Expanse whenever mine shows up. Though I will admit I'm a little surprised the streamer doesn't do 1.5mhz pcm/1024 DSD. As great as the Titanis USB is, I definitely preferred i2s on the May when I had it. Sounded a little clearer(enough to notice) and got rid of the smidge of latency on my PC that the USB input had. But there's always the other possibility Titanis 3.0 is even better if it becomes a thing.


AFAIK it's because of limitations with i2s lvds itself.

Many ddcs/dacs barely work with 768khz and will frequently lose sync or start sounding like static. So 1.536mhz probably would just be so problematic it's not worth doing as it'd just be a bad user experience.

Usb from the red does 1.536mhz though. It's just limited on i2s


----------



## XVampireX

We need a good hardware oversampler / upsampler for the May besides the M-Scaler...


----------



## GoldenOne

XVampireX said:


> We need a good hardware oversampler / upsampler for the May besides the M-Scaler...


Yeah I really wish there were more of these available.

I'm kind of surprised Jussi Laako hasn't done some sort of "Hqplayer in a box" product tbh. He'd likely sell tons of them


----------



## elf21400 (Nov 30, 2022)

Deleted


----------



## XVampireX

elf21400 said:


> Just for your reference,
> I'm using Audiobyte Hydra HUB as oversampler / upsampler for my May KTE (via I2S).
> It works fine and sounds great.



Can it upsample to max what May KTE is capable of? I mean like 1.5mhz PCM and DSD1024?
What about filters are they good?


----------



## elf21400

XVampireX said:


> Can it upsample to max what May KTE is capable of? I mean like 1.5mhz PCM and DSD1024?
> What about filters are they goo


Yes, currently it couldn't support 1.5mhz PCM and DSD1024, please ignore it, sorry


----------



## DeckHiFi

GoldenOne said:


> Yeah I really wish there were more of these available.
> 
> I'm kind of surprised Jussi Laako hasn't done some sort of "Hqplayer in a box" product tbh. He'd likely sell tons of them


Count me as a person that is interested in what these things have to offer but is in no way going to buy an M-Scaler anytime soon if ever. As I'm sure many are in the same boat. HQ player just seems like too much to deal with, especially on my Mac. Would rather just buy a Dac with a sound I like at this point.


----------



## incredulousity

DeckHiFi said:


> Count me as a person that is interested in what these things have to offer but is in no way going to buy an M-Scaler anytime soon if ever. As I'm sure many are in the same boat. HQ player just seems like too much to deal with, especially on my Mac. Would rather just buy a Dac with a sound I like at this point.


It takes 10 minutes to install HQPlayer and Roon and an hour to learn to use them fully. Good presets for Holo DACs are all over the net. That said, Roon upsampling into Holo NOS or DSD non OS is perfectly acceptable, and even easier. I have both set up, but usually just use Roon upsampling.

HQPlayer itself as a way to play music works fine, but Is a PITA, I agree.

I use Mac as my main music machine, but windows on my office station too.


----------



## ericx85

HQPlayer is definitely intimidating at a first glance. If youre running a Spring3/May I highly recommend using the settings Golden posted in the Holo May thread if you want to have a taste of what it can do. You can use most of the settings he posted for other dacs, but you'll need to change the sample rate/dac bits to what your dac or DDC is limited to


----------



## SlothRock

BTW should the thread title change at this point? No longer speculation (mostly) @Rayon


----------



## lumdicks

Just sharing some photos of Red, published by Wildism Hong Kong.


----------



## GoldenOne

DeckHiFi said:


> Count me as a person that is interested in what these things have to offer but is in no way going to buy an M-Scaler anytime soon if ever. As I'm sure many are in the same boat. HQ player just seems like too much to deal with, especially on my Mac. Would rather just buy a Dac with a sound I like at this point.


You can just use Roon or Audirvana's oversampling if you're not wanting to set up HQPlayer. They're still better than most DACs internal OS anyway.

If spending several thousand on a DAC though, may or otherwise, it seems silly not to take full advantage of it for the sake of 10 minutes effort.


----------



## Nighthawk7397

i caved and ordered,,, cant wait to try out bliss  . the streamer also looks pretty appealing, I don't have much experience with streamers but is it just meant to be easier to setup than a raspberry pi and has more output options?


----------



## lsantista

wow I must be really dumb as it took 2 months playing PCM before I realized I had to change a drop menu to SDM in order to upsample to DSD; also agree information on this  is fully available... within threads with dozens if not hundreds of pages. I tried thrice to just follow the quick HQP user manual to link my Qobuz and it just wasnt clear enough. As such, whoever still needs support feel free to msg me

Waiting for comparissons of Red and optical/signature rendus. the Red looks beatiful to me and surely will be a top product. I did not find great differences upgrading to optical myself, but that always can be blamed on not using the "right" fiber cable or cages... at some point I lost interest after 3 such fiber/sfp combinations, none of which on the expensive side, though many swear going optical on the streamer is the only way to max performance


----------



## lsantista

SlothRock said:


> BTW should the thread title change at this point? No longer speculation (mostly) @Rayon


I think about that everytime I see an update on the May thread hehehe


----------



## auded33

Are we not going off piste here, let's bring the focus back to the Bliss please.


----------



## duranxv

@GoldenOne - Will you be doing a shootout between the Bliss and Zahl HM1?


----------



## GoldenOne

duranxv said:


> @GoldenOne - Will you be doing a shootout between the Bliss and Zahl HM1?


Once my HM1 arrives yes. 
It may be another week or two though


----------



## Slim1970

GoldenOne said:


> Once my HM1 arrives yes.
> It may be another week or two though


I for one will be waiting for this review .


----------



## auded33

Why wait for comparative review?
I’ve ordered my Bliss. 
Come on folks, with a name like that it’s got to be good and a no-brainer at that.


----------



## GoldenOne

auded33 said:


> Why wait for comparative review?
> I’ve ordered my Bliss.
> Come on folks, with a name like that it’s got to be good and a no-brainer at that.


Additionally for most people I highly doubt HM1 is going to be worth the extra.

It is phenomenal. But its also 2.5x the cost and you'll be waiting 6-12 months to get it


----------



## deafenears

Also bench space too. The HM1 looks like a huge beast, especially since it's two boxes with the external power supply.


----------



## GoldenOne

deafenears said:


> Also bench space too. The HM1 looks like a huge beast, especially since it's two boxes with the external power supply.


Bliss has a considerably larger footprint than HM1


----------



## deafenears

GoldenOne said:


> Bliss has a considerably larger footprint than HM1


Oh? HM1 + HMP1? Or can the HM1 run without the HMP1?


----------



## GoldenOne

deafenears said:


> Oh? HM1 + HMP1? Or can the HM1 run without the HMP1?


Yeah it's bigger than HM1+HMP1

Bliss is 43cm x 30cm

HM1 + HMP1 set side by side is 39 x 30cm, with an area of space left over cause HMP1 is smaller than the HM1 itself


----------



## CinnamonToastCrunch

@GoldenOne  Do you still have the Mad24’s? How are they are on the Bliss? Or any other similarly sensitive IEM’s? Any issues?


----------



## Nighthawk7397

@SlothRock Apparently Jeff recommends not stacking bliss on top of spring due to cooling. but mentioned maybe using spacers between them if you have to stack them


----------



## Chartreuse

Nighthawk7397 said:


> @SlothRock Apparently Jeff recommends not stacking bliss on top of spring due to cooling. but mentioned maybe using spacers between them if you have to stack them



What about bliss on the bottom, may on top with the psu as the middle?


----------



## OneEyedHito

Chartreuse said:


> What about bliss on the bottom, may on top with the psu as the middle?


Heat Rises


----------



## Nighthawk7397

Chartreuse said:


> What about bliss on the bottom, may on top with the psu as the middle?


not sure, im just passing on what was shared from Jeff, through Tim, to another Bliss customer. Maybe email Tim / your dealer to ask directly.


----------



## Chartreuse

OneEyedHito said:


> Heat Rises


Not through an aluminum box it doesn’t. The PSU would be a pretty good insulator between the May and the Bliss considering there are 2 air gaps and a box to get through.


----------



## OneEyedHito (Nov 13, 2022)

Chartreuse said:


> Not through an aluminum box it doesn’t. The PSU would be a pretty good insulator between the May and the Bliss considering there are 2 air gaps and a box to get through.


Why did you ask then, sounds like you answered your own question.  Heat still rises though regardless of the material used in housing construction.  There is not active cooling on any of these components. My Spring's and May that I have had all produced winter hand warming level heat, I could feel it above it.  To conclude it sounds like 'spacers' would be of benefit.


----------



## SlothRock

Nighthawk7397 said:


> @SlothRock Apparently Jeff recommends not stacking bliss on top of spring due to cooling. but mentioned maybe using spacers between them if you have to stack them



Thank you! I was actually the one that asked that question to Jeff. Bummer since it woulda saved me a ton of space to stack them (and maybe I will still with isopucks) but luckily I have the desk space available to put them side by side still


----------



## Nighthawk7397

SlothRock said:


> Thank you! I was actually the one that asked that question to Jeff. Bummer since it woulda saved me a ton of space to stack them (and maybe I will still with isopucks) but luckily I have the desk space available to put them side by side still


oh funny, thanks for asking haha. it is indeed a bummer, would have looked nice stacked but not surprised the heat is an issue


----------



## Chartreuse

OneEyedHito said:


> Why did you ask then, sounds like you answered your own question.



Not really. Heat doesn't rise, *hot air* rises (lower density than cold air, we all know the drill). But if the case is being used as a heat sink, as most devices do, heat is going to be distributed to the case through conduction in some engineered manner, so the hot direction has everything to do with case construction and component location. From there, air flow takes the heat away from the case. I suspect a lot of the heat is being ejected from the bottom and sides of the case (vs the top), and so you'd create a very hot area directly below the Bliss. And if you have a sensitive DAC down there, you could heat that up as a result. Hence, "don't stack it on top of the Spring."

However, if you've got a table there instead, and on top of the Bliss you've got a PSU that isn't very heat sensitive, you won't damage your May; you can't get enough heat moving that way. But if stacking components means you don't get enough airflow over the case to be an effective heat sink and it's bad for *the Bliss* to do that, then there's no stacking of anything that makes sense. Or if the PSU is heat sensitive, that's bad too. 

So is stacking bad for the Bliss? The DAC? The PSU? Does it eject heat from the bottom, or the top (meaning you'd want the bliss on top and the May at the bottom)? Without knowing what we're trying to protect and where the heat goes, we don't know.


----------



## OneEyedHito

Chartreuse said:


> Not really. Heat doesn't rise, *hot air* rises (lower density than cold air, we all know the drill). But if the case is being used as a heat sink, as most devices do, heat is going to be distributed to the case through conduction in some engineered manner, so the hot direction has everything to do with case construction and component location. From there, air flow takes the heat away from the case. I suspect a lot of the heat is being ejected from the bottom and sides of the case (vs the top), and so you'd create a very hot area directly below the Bliss. And if you have a sensitive DAC down there, you could heat that up as a result. Hence, "don't stack it on top of the Spring."
> 
> However, if you've got a table there instead, and on top of the Bliss you've got a PSU that isn't very heat sensitive, you won't damage your May; you can't get enough heat moving that way. But if stacking components means you don't get enough airflow over the case to be an effective heat sink and it's bad for *the Bliss* to do that, then there's no stacking of anything that makes sense. Or if the PSU is heat sensitive, that's bad too.
> 
> So is stacking bad for the Bliss? The DAC? The PSU? Does it eject heat from the bottom, or the top (meaning you'd want the bliss on top and the May at the bottom)? Without knowing what we're trying to protect and where the heat goes, we don't know.


That all makes sense.  Appreciate the detailed thoughts!


----------



## Rayon

SlothRock said:


> BTW should the thread title change at this point? No longer speculation (mostly) @Rayon


Renamed.


----------



## incredulousity

Now we just need some Bliss actually out in the real world beyond reviewers.


----------



## auded33 (Nov 13, 2022)

It’s always bliss on top!
Seriously, if the Bliss is better than the Serene as a headphone amp, then it’s got to be good.
I’ve owned and used quite a few headphone amps, including Benchmark HPA4, Headamp GS-X Mk2, Chord Dave, Ferrum ORR/Hypsos, ToppingA90 to name a few. None of them are as good as my Holo Audio Serene. So I’m fully expecting my Bliss (on order) to be the best yet. As far as headphones are concerned, I’m using Audeze LCD-5 (with EQ) as my top pick after owning and using Focal Utopia, Dan Clark Stealth, Meze Elite, Sennheiser HD80S and others.


----------



## Derek Dean

auded33 said:


> It’s always bliss on top!
> Seriously, if the Bliss is better than the Serene as a headphone amp, then it’s got to be good.
> I’ve owned and used quite a few headphone amps, including Benchmark HPA4, Headamp GS-X Mk2, Chord Dave, Ferrum ORR/Hypsos, ToppingA90 to name a few. None of them are as good as my Holo Audio Serene. So I’m fully expecting my Bliss (on order) to be the best yet. As far as headphones are concerned, I’m using Audeze LCD-5 (with EQ) as my top pick after owning and using Focal Utopia, Dan Clark Stealth, Meze Elite, Sennheiser HD80S and others.


Can you be a bit more detailed about how the Holo Audio Serene is better than the aforementioned amps.  I've got a new pair of Audeze LCD-4 headphones and I'm considering a new amp (I'm using Topping A30 Pro now), and was wondering what is the benefit of moving to a larger amp?


----------



## henry9731

incredulousity said:


> Now we just need some Bliss actually out in the real world beyond reviewers.


Preordered one in Hong Kong, it’ll arrive before CNY hopefully.


----------



## auded33

For me, the Serene (using XLR1 outs) provides noticeable more clarity (detail) and depth of sound than the other amps I've had. 
You might need a good source and headphones to highlight the differences but the Serene is the best I've had so far. 
I stream from an Intel fanless NUC running Roon and my DAC is the Holo Audio May L3 KTE.


----------



## auded33

.... just to add, I have a spare Ferrum Hypsos that I use to power my NUC server and it has made a noticeable improvement, which came as a surprise to me having experimented with power supplies in the past.


----------



## henry9731

auded33 said:


> .... just to add, I have a spare Ferrum Hypsos that I use to power my NUC server and it has made a noticeable improvement, which came as a surprise to me having experimented with power supplies in the past.


Boy oh boy, clean power makes a huge difference in audio. I’ve experienced that when I was ripping cd with a LPS vs power from psu sata.


----------



## Chartreuse

henry9731 said:


> Boy oh boy, clean power makes a huge difference in audio. I’ve experienced that when I was ripping cd with a LPS vs power from psu sata.



Weird, what's the mechanism there? Isn't that all being done in the digital domain?

I'm also surprised there'd be a meaningful difference in the power source for the computer. Those power supplies are noisy and I'm sure send plenty of noise down the USB pipe, but I thought the May (and others) did a pretty good job filtering that out and just getting fully error corrected bits.


----------



## CinnamonToastCrunch

So I know it’s crazy but it’s circumstantial that I’ll be using the May KTE + Bliss with Ambient Acoustics Mad24 IEM’s. I’m curious if 1. What the difference between Balanced and SE outputs will be, if the balanced will offer better sound and 2. If the Bliss will have any issues with the sensitivity of the Mad24’s. 

Currently still in burn in period with the May but using it with Topping A90 and even though I’m pleased with what I hear (preferring the A90 over the un-modded SA1) I’m not even sure what I should be expecting sound wise from the Bliss vs the A90..  as my amp experience is (THX 789, A90, SA1 so fairly limited.) I have Arya’s that had been my daily driver prior to the Mad24’s but now I have no interest in them.


----------



## Nighthawk7397

I believe the 4.4mm has a higher impedance than the 4pin and 1/4. so if you were worried about sensitive iems, those two might be the better option


----------



## Chartreuse

So has anybody listened to this thing yet? I know they’re out in the wild and I haven’t seen anything beyond a short sentence or two in this thread.


----------



## incredulousity

Only reviewers have them so far, and only for a few days. It takes time. But the suspense is killing all of us who are not reviewers and don’t have them


----------



## lumdicks (Nov 16, 2022)

There is a demo unit in Wildism Hong Kong. I have not got a chance to listen to it but other users thought that it is wonderful and can drive Susvrara in full.

https://www.facebook.com/1431346313...iKa29mkeE4DxCi9FyrgxPDpLjFYvuqw9nbzD8x9kxy9l/


----------



## SlothRock

lumdicks said:


> There is a demo unit in Wildism Hong Kong. I have not got a chance to listen to it but other users thought that it is wonderful and can drive Susvrara in full.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/1431346313...iKa29mkeE4DxCi9FyrgxPDpLjFYvuqw9nbzD8x9kxy9l/



In discord, GoldenSound was saying the volume goes from -72 to +12. Surprising to see that guy with the Susvara running all the way at -6


----------



## Chartreuse

SlothRock said:


> In discord, GoldenSound was saying the volume goes from -72 to +12. Surprising to see that guy with the Susvara running all the way at -6



With 84 steps that’s 79%… I run my soloist 3x GT at 80% in high gain (not for long periods), so that seems about right. I tend to really crank it in demo environments to overcome background noise so that might be what’s going on here. Also, they may have left headroom to spare at the top of the dial. Still, I was hoping the extra power would leave plenty on tap for the attenuation I get thru hqplayer OS/PEQ


----------



## SlothRock

Chartreuse said:


> With 84 steps that’s 79%… I run my soloist 3x GT at 80% in high gain (not for long periods), so that seems about right. I tend to really crank it in demo environments to overcome background noise so that might be what’s going on here. Also, they may have left headroom to spare at the top of the dial. Still, I was hoping the extra power would leave plenty on tap for the attenuation I get thru hqplayer OS/PEQ


I went back to the picture and saw that he was perhaps using the 6.3 input vs XLR (if I’m looking at it right) so that could be the culprit right there. My OOR+Hypsos gets to be too loud on the Susvara around noon or 1 o’clock max and that’s only 8W vs 12W so I’d also expect more headroom


----------



## Delta9K

SlothRock said:


> My OOR+Hypsos gets to be too loud on the Susvara around noon or 1 o’clock max a


That's about right for my OOR/Hypsos too with the Susvara as well. (Balanced input from Spring3 KTE, medium gain on the amp and 24v nominal on the Hypsos)



SlothRock said:


> and that’s only 8W vs 12W so I’d also expect more headroom



Do we know the specs of Bliss yet is it 12w @60 Ohms ?


----------



## SlothRock (Nov 16, 2022)

Delta9K said:


> That's about right for my OOR/Hypsos too with the Susvara as well. (Balanced input from Spring3 KTE, medium gain on the amp and 24v nominal on the Hypsos)
> 
> 
> 
> Do we know the specs of Bliss yet is it 12w @60 Ohms ?


It’s 12w @32Ohms


----------



## ufospls2

Could be that the Bliss just has fairly low gain, or that the gain ramps up in a way that it is larger steps the further you go. I've not seen a spec list with the gain dB yet.


----------



## henry9731

Chartreuse said:


> Weird, what's the mechanism there? Isn't that all being done in the digital domain?
> 
> I'm also surprised there'd be a meaningful difference in the power source for the computer. Those power supplies are noisy and I'm sure send plenty of noise down the USB pipe, but I thought the May (and others) did a pretty good job filtering that out and just getting fully error corrected bits.


I have no clue what the phenomenon is, but I sure it was legit and easily audible from the files that I was ripping my cd collection.

I wasn’t a believer that power supply could make such a difference, but swapping from pc psu to a LPS made the noise floor significantly more quiet and treble has way less noise. I also don’t have a May so…

I used DBpoweramp for my ripping, and the ripping file code was different with the swap of the power supply. It’s supposed to be the same since the digital should be identical but it isn’t.


----------



## XVampireX

ufospls2 said:


> Could be that the Bliss just has fairly low gain, or that the gain ramps up in a way that it is larger steps the further you go. I've not seen a spec list with the gain dB yet.



The volume control is in 1dB steps from what I've heard.


----------



## ozziegurkan (Nov 17, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> It’s 12w @32Ohms


It’s more than the OOR so it should be plenty. Because OOR has gain steps, it might be misleading.

Personally I prefer not having gain steps because then I have to get up from my chair. No bueno. Hence why I am selling Burson too. Way too many steps.


----------



## Chartreuse

SlothRock said:


> In discord, GoldenSound was saying the volume goes from -72 to +12. Surprising to see that guy with the Susvara running all the way at -6



Maybe this is common knowledge, but why would it go from -72 to +12? What reference point does zero represent in this range? 

Why not -84 to 0? or 0 to +84? And why 84 steps, not 50 or 75 or 100?


----------



## ozziegurkan

Chartreuse said:


> Maybe this is common knowledge, but why would it go from -72 to +12? What reference point does zero represent in this range?
> 
> Why not -84 to 0? or 0 to +84? And why 84 steps, not 50 or 75 or 100?


+12 represents a 12 db gain beyond 0 or unity, so that makes sense. At zero you have unity gain so you know when to stop at the level of your DAC input. -72 must be quiet enough.


----------



## Rayon

auded33 said:


> It’s always bliss on top!
> Seriously, if the Bliss is better than the Serene as a headphone amp, then it’s got to be good.
> I’ve owned and used quite a few headphone amps, including Benchmark HPA4, Headamp GS-X Mk2, Chord Dave, Ferrum ORR/Hypsos, ToppingA90 to name a few. None of them are as good as my Holo Audio Serene. So I’m fully expecting my Bliss (on order) to be the best yet. As far as headphones are concerned, I’m using Audeze LCD-5 (with EQ) as my top pick after owning and using Focal Utopia, Dan Clark Stealth, Meze Elite, Sennheiser HD80S and others.


Did you ever happen to try Niimbus? To me the competition of these two is the most interesting.


----------



## auded33

Rayon said:


> Did you ever happen to try Niimbus? To me the competition of these two is the most interesting.


I confess, I’ve not tried the Niimbus. Looks interesting I agree.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Rayon said:


> Did you ever happen to try Niimbus? To me the competition of these two is the most interesting.


Just ordered the Bliss and have the US5. Agree that this is going to be an interesting comparison.


----------



## Kamsang

DJJEZ said:


> Non KTE internals


Looks like this is a build on board discrete SS amp. Better version of Burson in material use.


----------



## SlothRock

All I want for Christmas is the Holo Audio Bliss page updated with more information/specs even tho I already ordered mine  . Please?


----------



## incredulousity

And the reviews are taking their sweet time. Maybe it needs 500 hours burn in like May, and that causes the delay.


----------



## lsantista

I reckon there is much smaller interest for streamers and dedicated threads, but for Holo fans or anyone interested, Im trying to follow up about their other new product, the Red, in here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/holo-audio-red-streamer.965665/#post-17249460


----------



## Preface

ozziegurkan said:


> +12 represents a 12 db gain beyond 0 or unity, so that makes sense. At zero you have unity gain so you know when to stop at the level of your DAC input. -72 must be quiet enough.


I am confused. Does it mean that at 0 the signal from DAC is not amplified at all?


----------



## SlothRock

incredulousity said:


> And the reviews are taking their sweet time. Maybe it needs 500 hours burn in like May, and that causes the delay.



Ya idk. Most reviewers have had it now for around 2 weeks. I've heard snippets here and there and the impressions are all very positive so far but still taking awhile for a true review to come up


----------



## ozziegurkan

Preface said:


> I am confused. Does it mean that at 0 the signal from DAC is not amplified at all?


Probably not. I don’t know what the dBu numbers are, so this would be relative to the dBu.


----------



## ozziegurkan

ozziegurkan said:


> Probably not. I don’t know what the dBu numbers are, so this would be relative to the dBu.


Let me see if I can get more scientific and others can correct me. 

If I plug in 12watts at 32ohms in the dBU calculator, I get 28dbU which is crazy 28Vpeak. This should be the base amplification at 0 dB. I think and only Holo can answer that. 







Then, you can look at the log scale and see how reducing the gain pulls down the amplification.


----------



## FooFighter

Anyone here in the pre-order group owning Elite and/or Solitaire P to report about synergy later on?


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 19, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> Anyone here in the pre-order group owning Elite and/or Solitaire P to report about synergy later on?


I have Elite, Empy, HD800S, CA-1a, VO, Hedd, and some lesser things that will all get tested on Bliss KTE v Envy in stack with May KTE. Bliss replaces GSX MK2 in this stack.

I expect Elite to shine on Bliss, as it scales well with every better hardware level I’ve tried over time.


----------



## Xevv (Nov 19, 2022)

I will be trying mine with these:

ZMF Verite Open
ZMF Verite Closed
Sennheiser 650
Sennheiser 560
Focal Elex
HarmonicDyne Zeus
PhilPhone


----------



## FooFighter

incredulousity said:


> I have Elite, Empy, HD800S, CA-1a, VO, Hedd, and some lesser things that will all get tested on Bliss KTE v Envy in stack with May KTE. Bliss replaces GSX MK2 in this stack.
> 
> I expect Elite to shine on Bliss, as it scales well with every better hardware level I’ve tried over time.


You are lucky owning Envy.
After what I ve read about it I am even wondering why you want to stack it up and aren't happy with it alone?
It is told to drive Susvaras, Elite and many more to their best form.
The only thing which I disliked that it only has RCA connectors and no XLR


----------



## GoldenOne

Chartreuse said:


> Maybe this is common knowledge, but why would it go from -72 to +12? What reference point does zero represent in this range?
> 
> Why not -84 to 0? or 0 to +84? And why 84 steps, not 50 or 75 or 100?


0dB means unity gain. ie: voltage in = voltage out.
-6dB means half voltage. So 2v in = 1v out etc.

Where you fall on volume range will depend on both your DAC output level and headphones, same as any other amp.
Personally I've found that there's plenty enough range for everything from IEMs to Susvara/CA-1A/1266 etc


----------



## SlothRock

GoldenOne said:


> 0dB means unity gain. ie: voltage in = voltage out.
> -6dB means half voltage. So 2v in = 1v out etc.
> 
> Where you fall on volume range will depend on both your DAC output level and headphones, same as any other amp.
> Personally I've found that there's plenty enough range for everything from IEMs to Susvara/CA-1A/1266 etc



What dB does it feel like the Susvara gets “too loud” at for your ears? Want to see how much headroom is available


----------



## incredulousity (Nov 19, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> You are lucky owning Envy.
> After what I ve read about it I am even wondering why you want to stack it up and aren't happy with it alone?
> It is told to drive Susvaras, Elite and many more to their best form.
> The only thing which I disliked that it only has RCA connectors and no XLR


I am happy with it alone. But also, sometimes I want a solid state amp. And a volume remote control. 

Also, Envy has both balanced and SE on both input and output side. It’s internal topology is single ended, so there is no benefit of using XLR input with it, other than hotter input voltage.

In my stack, Envy is fed by RCA and the SS amp by XLR.


----------



## GoldenOne

SlothRock said:


> What dB does it feel like the Susvara gets “too loud” at for your ears? Want to see how much headroom is available


'Loud' is gonna be different for different people. I'm listening at around 0dB on Susvara


----------



## SlothRock

GoldenOne said:


> 'Loud' is gonna be different for different people. I'm listening at around 0dB on Susvara


Totally get it - I’m still surprised that at your listening level there is only 12dB remaining on tap to play with. I would have thought there would be more headroom


----------



## jlbrach

SlothRock said:


> What dB does it feel like the Susvara gets “too loud” at for your ears? Want to see how much headroom is available


that is a very misleading way to look at it...I have a CFA3 that is very powerful that requires I go to 12-3 on the volume pot whereas I have less powerful amps where I go from say 10-1...the CFZA3 has more attenuation but far more power...


----------



## GoldenOne

SlothRock said:


> Totally get it - I’m still surprised that at your listening level there is only 12dB remaining on tap to play with. I would have thought there would be more headroom


Worth noting that's headroom for gain, not power. This is a really common misconception, and also something that unfortunately manufacturers are starting to use to mislead consumers.
As @jlbrach mentioned, amps that require you to be higher on the pot can actually be considerably more powerful than those that require you to be lower for the same volume.

I'm also using HQP with -3dB attenuation so actual level is more like -3dB. 
On other headphones like Meze 109 pro I'm at around -25dB.
Honestly I'd be worried if there was more gain. It'd be sacrificing performance for 99.9% of users (higher gain means higher noise floor and poorer dynamic range at lower volumes) so that 0.1% of people can listen at beyond dangerous volumes.
With a standard 4V XLR DAC, 12dB gain is a 4x multiplier (16Vrms output). 
This would drive Susvara to upto 120dB

If anyone needs more than that, I'd be very concerned for their hearing


----------



## SlothRock

GoldenOne said:


> Worth noting that's headroom for gain, not power. This is a really common misconception, and also something that unfortunately manufacturers are starting to use to mislead consumers.
> As @jlbrach mentioned, amps that require you to be higher on the pot can actually be considerably more powerful than those that require you to be lower for the same volume.
> 
> I'm also using HQP with -3dB attenuation so actual level is more like -3dB.
> ...



Thank you - this is super helpful and I wasn’t aware of that, actually. I had thought the additional power would mean that, while my OOR gets too loud around noon, the Bliss would get to that point closer to “10 o’clock” on its volume as a comparison. Definitely feels like more than enough gain for the Susvara


----------



## GoldenOne (Nov 19, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> Thank you - this is super helpful and I wasn’t aware of that, actually. I had thought the additional power would mean that, while my OOR gets too loud around noon, the Bliss would get to that point closer to “10 o’clock” on its volume as a comparison. Definitely feels like more than enough gain for the Susvara


Yeah it's a bit unintuitive unfortunately.

Gain is just a multiplier. Higher gain means that for the same position on the pot it'll be louder, but the amount of current your amp can supply into a given load is fixed, and not affected by whether it's in high or low gain, or what it's inherent level of gain is.

One amp could supply upto 10V, and 2A, meaning its max power could be 20W.
Another amp could supply upto 10V, but only 1A, meaning its max power would be 10W.

The second amp might have higher gain, meaning for the same position on the pot, it'll be louder. BUT, it's not actually more powerful. It's less powerful. And it'll likely distort more with the same hard to drive headphones than the first amp would. And if needing >10W to actually get to the volume you want, it wouldn't be able to do it at all.

Manufacturers seem to have started making their products higher gain as it makes people THINK they're more powerful. Because "wow I'm only at 10% and I'm really loud!". But whilst you might be at 10% on the pot, you could well be at 80% of the actual max power output of the amp.

This is also bad because you want ideally to preserve as much dynamic range through your whole chain as you can. Which means avoiding unnecessary amplification and attenuation.
If you amplify by 30dB and then attenuate away 25dB of it because your amp is too high gain for your headphones, you're losing 25dB of potential dynamic range.
Whereas if your amp was only +12dB gain and you only needed to attenuate 7dB of it, you're getting an extra 18dB of dynamic range compared to the first option.
*Gain isn't actually something you want headroom for.* Power yes, headroom is good. But for gain you actually want the minimum possible amount to get to the level you want, and to avoid any attenuation that isn't necessary.


----------



## brianfromspace

GoldenOne said:


> Yeah it's a bit unintuitive unfortunately.
> 
> Gain is just a multiplier. Higher gain means that for the same position on the pot it'll be louder, but the amount of current your amp can supply into a given load is fixed, and not affected by whether it's in high or low gain, or what it's inherent level of gain is.
> 
> ...


Damn, now that is what I call a lesson in hifi. Thanks! Now is it possible to start adding amps to a sheet with this data? Or would that be too complicated or not very useful info?


----------



## BobWrights (Nov 20, 2022)

Is there anyone out there who can compare the Holo Bliss to the Enleum AMP-23R?

EDIT: Headphone outputs only, of course. For reference, I am using the Susvaras, AMP-23R, and a Holo May lvl 2.


----------



## krude (Nov 20, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> Thank you - this is super helpful and I wasn’t aware of that, actually. I had thought the additional power would mean that, while my OOR gets too loud around noon, the Bliss would get to that point closer to “10 o’clock” on its volume as a comparison. Definitely feels like more than enough gain for the Susvara


On paper Oor has about 25% more power. For Susvara tho most important is how much current Bliss can supply to awaken the dynamics and how much bass extension can it bring to Susvara. I wonder if HiZ is useful with Susvara 🤔 it will be interesting to see the comparisons next year once both amps get some good listening time.


----------



## SlothRock

krude said:


> On paper Oor about 25% more power. For Susvara tho most important is how much current Bliss can supply to awaken the dynamics and how much bass extension can it bring to Susvara. I wonder if HiZ is useful with Susvara 🤔 it will be interesting to see the comparisons next year once both amps get some good listening time.



Ya I’m curious about if Hi Z is useful at all for Susvara. I doubt it though, probably a better use case for the ZMF dynamic headphones and other similar cans.


----------



## SlothRock

Also, I was emailing with Tim and asking about the Low Z and High Z settings and got some additional details about the specs if anyone else is interested:

“
HEADPHONE OUTPUT


4P XLR Output

Low impedance mode (LO-Z): Output impedance 0Ω, power 12Wrms@32Ω

High impedance mode (HI-Z): output impedance 15Ω, power 2.5Wrms@150Ω

4.4mm Pentaconn Output

Low impedance mode (LO-Z): output impedance 2Ω, power 12Wrms@32Ω

High impedance mode (HI-Z): output impedance 17Ω, power 2.5Wrms@150Ω

6.3mm TRS Output

Low impedance mode (LO-Z): output impedance 1Ω, power 3Wrms@32Ω

High impedance mode (HI-Z): output impedance 8.5Ω, power 0.6Wrms@150Ω”


----------



## XVampireX

krude said:


> On paper Oor has about 25% more power. For Susvara tho most important is how much current Bliss can supply to awaken the dynamics and how much bass extension can it bring to Susvara. I wonder if HiZ is useful with Susvara 🤔 it will be interesting to see the comparisons next year once both amps get some good listening time.



Oor has more power? How are you making this?


----------



## GoldenOne

krude said:


> On paper Oor has about 25% more power. For Susvara tho most important is how much current Bliss can supply to awaken the dynamics and how much bass extension can it bring to Susvara. I wonder if HiZ is useful with Susvara 🤔 it will be interesting to see the comparisons next year once both amps get some good listening time.


OOR has less power.

OOR is 9.5W @32 Ohm
Bliss is 12W @32 Ohm


----------



## krude

GoldenOne said:


> OOR has less power.
> 
> OOR is 9.5W @32 Ohm
> Bliss is 12W @32 Ohm


Hmm so its not linear, how much does Bliss make at @60 then?


----------



## krude

XVampireX said:


> Oor has more power? How are you making this?


I assumed its linear, it has 8w at 60 ohms (Ferrum claims), but you'd have to be able to measure it at 32 and Bliss at 60 to know for sure, which @GoldenOne did looks like.


----------



## XVampireX

Anyhow, my Volot has 16W at 32 ohms, so whatever XD


----------



## George Hincapie

XVampireX said:


> Anyhow, my Volot has 16W at 32 ohms, so whatever XD


There, there. It's OK. Yours is the biggest 🤣


----------



## GoldenOne

krude said:


> I assumed its linear, it has 8w at 60 ohms (Ferrum claims), but you'd have to be able to measure it at 32 and Bliss at 60 to know for sure, which @GoldenOne did looks like.


Amps won't follow Ohms law indefinitely
As you go lower and lower in impedance the current demand begins to be the limiting factor and so the increase in power as you reduce load impedance will start tapering off.


----------



## AlbertoPN

lumdicks said:


> published by Wildism Hong Kong


Just for my information. The May with the light color chassis is something "special" for the HK distributor o the new version of the DAC ? Somebody knows it ?


----------



## GoldenOne

AlbertoPN said:


> Just for my information. The May with the light color chassis is something "special" for the HK distributor o the new version of the DAC ? Somebody knows it ?


That's just a color they make ~10 or so units of when a new product comes out sometimes. They did the same with Serene. 

It's not a new DAC


----------



## AlbertoPN

GoldenOne said:


> It's not a new DAC


Thank you so much. If you allow me another question on this matter, in another forum you have on the signature the May/Serene with "Wildsim Edition" (or something like this): is just because you got them from HK (instead, for instance, Magna HiFi) or they make some special edition/tweak ? Thanks for the patience in answering me.

I'm looking forward for reading your review of the Bliss and the comparison with the Serene ... can't wait !


----------



## GoldenOne

AlbertoPN said:


> Thank you so much. If you allow me another question on this matter, in another forum you have on the signature the May/Serene with "Wildsim Edition" (or something like this): is just because you got them from HK (instead, for instance, Magna HiFi) or they make some special edition/tweak ? Thanks for the patience in answering me.
> 
> I'm looking forward for reading your review of the Bliss and the comparison with the Serene ... can't wait !


Yeah it's just cause I bought it from Wildism.
It's exactly the same as KTE

I may not be able to give much comparison to Serene as I don't have one anymore. I sold mine to help pay for the Zahl HM1 unfortunately


----------



## AlbertoPN

GoldenOne said:


> I may not be able to give much comparison to Serene as I don't have one anymore. I sold mine to help pay for the Zahl HM1 unfortunately


Not a big problem. At least you could mention this comparison remembering your experience with the Serene. I don't own a Susvara (at least, yet) and so I'm very interested into your opinion of the Bliss also as preamp, otherwise I'll go with a Serene for my needs.


----------



## George Hincapie

GoldenOne said:


> Yeah it's just cause I bought it from Wildism.
> It's exactly the same as KTE
> 
> I may not be able to give much comparison to Serene as I don't have one anymore. I sold mine to help pay for the Zahl HM1 unfortunately


Interesting. Has that been bought to allow you to quickly A/B sources?


----------



## rmsanger (Nov 23, 2022)

any reviews on this one coming soon?  I'm sure year end cutoff for holiday ordering is coming very quickly.. I'm on the fence on this one.. .I see some killer used deals for Volots and Soloist 3GTs on here along with a few Vio 550's coming up for sale.  Wanting to know if the Bliss is going to be on that level or superior as it's a good $1.5k higher than those used options.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...550-headphone-amplifier-1-month-old-64-watts/
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649886750-flux-labs-volot/
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/burson-soloist-3x-grand-tourer-super-charger-5a.35727/


----------



## GoldenOne

George Hincapie said:


> Interesting. Has that been bought to allow you to quickly A/B sources?


Not really. Serene and Bliss both have multiple inputs and allow for easily switching between them.
Plus I actually have a custom ABX blind testing device which can also be used for sighted AB testing.








I bought the HM1 because so far it's the best sounding headphone amp I've heard, with a huge amount of customisability and power.


----------



## George Hincapie (Nov 23, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> Not really. Serene and Bliss both have multiple inputs and allow for easily switching between them.
> Plus I actually have a custom ABX blind testing device which can also be used for sighted AB testing.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation. Will you be comparing it to Bliss?

I am looking for a TOTL solid state amp (that can comfortably run Susvara) to sit alongside my Linear Tube Audio MZ3. I'm finding making the right choice a minefield in all honesty.


----------



## GoldenOne

George Hincapie said:


> Thanks for the explanation. Will you be comparing it to Bliss?
> 
> I am looking for a TOTL solid state amp (that can comfortably run Susvara) to sit alongside my Linear Tube Audio MZ3. I'm finding making the right choice a minefield in all honesty.


I will be doing a comparison yep. My HM1 should hopefully be here in a week or two.
From my time with the HM1 so far, I'd say that I think the HM1 slightly edges out the Bliss on SQ, but not by a huge amount. Where it really wins is in customisation and ability to change the sound with the optional feedback, soundstage adjustment and EQ etc.

BUT, it's also 2.5x the price, and there's a ~6 month wait (assuming you get in on the 2023 batch, I think there's only 10 or so left and after that you'll be waiting until 2024 as they're only making 50 per year). Also there's apparently a price increase coming in January so it may be ~3x the cost of the Bliss or higher after that.

Both the Bliss and the HM1 run Susvara absolutely beautifully though and there isn't a wrong choice to make.


----------



## Slim1970

rmsanger said:


> any reviews on this one coming soon?  I'm sure year end cutoff for holiday ordering is coming very quickly.. I'm on the fence on this one.. .I see some killer used deals for Volots and Soloist 3GTs on here along with a few Vio 550's coming up for sale.  Wanting to know if the Bliss is going to be on that level or superior as it's a good $1.5k higher than those used options.
> 
> https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...550-headphone-amplifier-1-month-old-64-watts/
> https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649886750-flux-labs-volot/
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/burson-soloist-3x-grand-tourer-super-charger-5a.35727/


This is a very good question. I own the Soloist 3X GT and it is a fantastic sounding amp. It can even be made to sound better with upgraded op-amps. I'm very interested in the Bliss. Like you, I want to know how it compares to some other top tier amps.


----------



## SlothRock (Nov 23, 2022)

rmsanger said:


> any reviews on this one coming soon?  I'm sure year end cutoff for holiday ordering is coming very quickly.. I'm on the fence on this one.. .I see some killer used deals for Volots and Soloist 3GTs on here along with a few Vio 550's coming up for sale.  Wanting to know if the Bliss is going to be on that level or superior as it's a good $1.5k higher than those used options.
> 
> https://www.usaudiomart.com/details...550-headphone-amplifier-1-month-old-64-watts/
> https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649886750-flux-labs-volot/
> https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/burson-soloist-3x-grand-tourer-super-charger-5a.35727/


@GoldenOne will likely be the first professional reviewer getting their review out but not sure when that's coming. I'd also doubt if you ordered now it would be here before the holidays. I was one of the first orders in 2.5 weeks ago and I also am not really expecting my order before Christmas but would be happily surprised if I was wrong 


Slim1970 said:


> This is a very good question. I own the Soloist 3X GT and it is a fantastic sounding amp. It can even be made to sound better with upgraded op-amps. I'm very interested in the Bliss. Like you, I want to know how it compares to some other top tier amps.


I owned the Burson GT before switching to the OOR, so I'm happy to provide a comparison (from memory) once I get the Bliss


----------



## CSX142857

Hi everyone. First post here. It seems there's people here that ordered Holo products from Kitsunehifi before. I asked this question to Tim via email but I bet he's been bombarded with emails so he hasn't reached me yet. I ordered the Bliss Amp but forgot to mention that I needed the plug to be 110v on the order. Does Kitsunehifi assume 110v if the shipping address is a US address or do I need to try contacting Tim again to make sure my amp comes with the correct plug?


----------



## SlothRock

CSX142857 said:


> Hi everyone. First post here. It seems there's people here that ordered Holo products from Kitsunehifi before. I asked this question to Tim via email but I bet he's been bombarded with emails so he hasn't reached me yet. I ordered the Bliss Amp but forgot to mention that I needed the plug to be 110v on the order. Does Kitsunehifi assume 110v if the shipping address is a US address or do I need to try contacting Tim again to make sure my amp comes with the correct plug?


They will assume 110V with a US Address. When I ordered my Spring 3 KTE I didn't specify and it came with the right voltage for the US. You'll be fine.


----------



## deafenears

Isn't there a switch to flip between 110v and 230v?


----------



## Slim1970

SlothRock said:


> @GoldenOne will likely be the first professional reviewer getting their review out but not sure when that's coming. I'd also doubt if you ordered now it would be here before the holidays. I was one of the first orders in 2.5 weeks ago and I also am not really expecting my order before Christmas but would be happily surprised if I was wrong
> 
> I owned the Burson GT before switching to the OOR, so I'm happy to provide a comparison (from memory) once I get the Bliss


Great, looking forward to your impressions


----------



## incredulousity

deafenears said:


> Isn't there a switch to flip between 110v and 230v?


The photos seem to show those switches, yes.


----------



## OneEyedHito (Nov 23, 2022)

CSX142857 said:


> Hi everyone. First post here. It seems there's people here that ordered Holo products from Kitsunehifi before. I asked this question to Tim via email but I bet he's been bombarded with emails so he hasn't reached me yet. I ordered the Bliss Amp but forgot to mention that I needed the plug to be 110v on the order. Does Kitsunehifi assume 110v if the shipping address is a US address or do I need to try contacting Tim again to make sure my amp comes with the correct plug?


110V from Kitsune, they are the USA Distributor, you would need to communicate directly with Tim only if you wanted it 220V.


----------



## Derek Dean

CSX142857, welcome to the forum!  We will look forward to hearing your impressions of your new amp.  Enjoy!


----------



## JooLoo

Call me boring but if i order a bliss id probably take off the orange sides, buttons, and badges take off the anod and reanodize it black. I wonder if thatd **** up my warranty?


----------



## incredulousity

It looks quite attractive IRL. Much less cheesy than I had expected.


----------



## JooLoo

incredulousity said:


> It looks quite attractive IRL. Much less cheesy than I had expected.


I guess photos really dont do it justice as ive been hearing that a lot


----------



## Rayon

PcChip said:


> Don't forget to compare Bliss to the XLR1 outs of Serene


As a user of sensitive headphones, this is most interesting. I don't need a lot of power and if Serene would be as good as a headphone amp (ignoring power), it would be a good way to save some money.


----------



## auded33

Rayon said:


> As a user of sensitive headphones, this is most interesting. I don't need a lot of power and if Serene would be as good as a headphone amp (ignoring power), it would be a good way to save some money.


I have the Serene KTE L3 and the XLR1 output is really good driving my Audeze LCD-5. Is better than my Benchmark HPA4 and Ferrum ORR/Hypsos. I will be keen to compare the Serene with the Bliss when I take delivery of the latter.


----------



## Rayon

I did it...


----------



## Rayon (Nov 28, 2022)

Btw I was thinking about the stacking on top of May and airflow and came up with an idea: what if one would buy 4 of these, one under each leg of Bliss:






That would move it up like 2,5cm and pucks are big enough to make the structure stable. However they still should be small enough to let May breath. As a bonus: total cost below 10€/$.


----------



## SlothRock

Rayon said:


> I did it...


Hell ya! Welcome to the club of pre-orders and hopefully soon-to-be owners 


Rayon said:


> Btw I was thinking about the stacking on top of May and airflow and came up with an idea: what if one would buy 4 of these, one under each leg of Bliss:
> 
> 
> 
> That would move it up like 1,5cm and pucks are big enough to make the structure stable. However they still should be small enough to let May breath. As a bonus: total cost below 10€/$.



When I was messaging them about stacking this on my Spring 3, they said it was recommended to have about 2 inches of gap between them and not to stack them just with the feet that comes on the Bliss but using an isopuck or something like this. As long as it has that much clearance to allow for airflow you should be fine stacking


----------



## Rayon (Nov 28, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> When I was messaging them about stacking this on my Spring 3, they said it was recommended to have about 2 inches of gap between them and not to stack them just with the feet that comes on the Bliss but using an isopuck or something like this.


Ok, that would then mean basically having 2 pucks on top of each other (and gluing them together maybe) as they are 1 inch thick.

EDIT: ditched the idea. Checked in a shop that they are not completely flat survaces.


----------



## XVampireX

We need the reviews to come out already, lol


----------



## Chartreuse

XVampireX said:


> We need the reviews to come out already, lol



I’m beginning to suspect that I may get mine before I’m able to read about it


----------



## Derek Dean

XVampireX said:


> We need the reviews to come out already, lol


Or at least a list of official specifications : )


----------



## SlothRock (Nov 28, 2022)

@GoldenOne Give us the goods!!


----------



## XVampireX

Chartreuse said:


> I’m beginning to suspect that I may get mine before I’m able to read about it



That's how it feels for us early adopters :-/


----------



## Rayon

Just emailed with Magnahifi. I still got in to the first batch, but first batch was sold out today! I was among the very last ones


----------



## SlothRock

Oh hell ya! I ordered three weeks ago so I gotta be in the first batch. Did they indicate when that first batch is shipping by chance?


----------



## Chartreuse

SlothRock said:


> Oh hell ya! I ordered three weeks ago so I gotta be in the first batch. Did they indicate when that first batch is shipping by chance?



And, does the KTE version take longer? I got my May L2 shipped straight from Hong Kong, but I got the KTE version of the Bliss and I'm not sure if that needs to pass through Kitsune first for 'tuning'.


----------



## Rayon (Nov 28, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> Oh hell ya! I ordered three weeks ago so I gotta be in the first batch. Did they indicate when that first batch is shipping by chance?


They said that new orders from now on need to wait until the beginning of January...


----------



## Rayon

Chartreuse said:


> And, does the KTE version take longer? I got my May L2 shipped straight from Hong Kong, but I got the KTE version of the Bliss and I'm not sure if that needs to pass through Kitsune first for 'tuning'.


I don't know unfortunately.


----------



## SlothRock (Nov 28, 2022)

Rayon said:


> They said that new customers need to wait until the beginning of January...


So I guess that means people ordering now wait until January? So if you’re in the first batch maybe December is likely. I also ordered KTE so not sure if that takes more time or not


----------



## Rayon

SlothRock said:


> So I guess that means people ordering now wait until January? So if you’re in the first batch maybe December is likely. I also ordered KTE so not sure if that takes more time or not


That was my understanding. I also don't believe that they ship those to US for mods, but that mods were put in place in factory and they just have some deal with Kitsunehifi. However this is not based on real information.


----------



## CinnamonToastCrunch (Nov 29, 2022)

Just got a DHL shipping notice for something coming from Hong Kong - I don't think I have anything pending requiring DHL shipping from China except for the Bliss (KTE). Ordered at 6:25am PST the day they went live. ETA is Dec 1st, I'll keep you posted.


----------



## Chartreuse

CinnamonToastCrunch said:


> Just got a DHL shipping notice for something coming from Hong Kong - I don't think I have anything pending requiring DHL shipping from China except for the Bliss (KTE). Ordered at 6:25am PST the day they went live. ETA is Dec 1st, I'll keep you posted.



Me too, got my tracking! En route


----------



## ufospls2

Looking forward to more impressions rolling in soon!


----------



## XVampireX

Hmm, from Wildism or KitsuneHifi?


----------



## incredulousity

Ordered from Kitsune at 6:15AM on first day. No confirmation yet here.

Bliss KTE


----------



## genefruit

incredulousity said:


> Ordered from Kitsune at 6:15AM on first day. No confirmation yet here.
> 
> Bliss KTE


just got my text from DHL.  Should be an interesting weekend.


----------



## Greg121986

I ordered end of launch day and just received a notification of shipment this morning. DHL will arrive to me on Friday. Beyond stoked!


----------



## Loose-Leaf

Can hardly wait for reviews.


----------



## Chartreuse

I also ordered day one, from Kitsune, KTE edition coming straight from HK. Friday delivery date (East Coast US)


----------



## SlothRock

I ordered the Bliss KTE right round 6:30-7AM launch day and no shipping yet. Fingers crossed to see something soon


----------



## ozziegurkan

I got my notification this morning, too.


----------



## ozziegurkan

This weekend begins the OOR vs. Bliss vs. WA5 shoot-out, although I am not giving up my Tubes. It is really just an SS shootout.


----------



## SlothRock

When did you order @ozziegurkan


----------



## XVampireX

I'll just say it: Not fair.
On the other hand, we saved $400 + shipping, so yolo.


----------



## Rayon

XVampireX said:


> I'll just say it: Not fair.
> On the other hand, we saved $400 + shipping, so yolo.


Saved $400+shipping how?


----------



## XVampireX

It's a wild secret.


----------



## incredulousity

So only Magna orders shipping so far?


----------



## incredulousity

Any people who ordered from Kitsune have notice yet?


----------



## genefruit

incredulousity said:


> Any people who ordered from Kitsune have notice yet?


I ordered from Kitsune and received my notice this morning.  I figure anyone located in the USA ordered from Kitsune as well and has responded accordingly.


----------



## Rayon

incredulousity said:


> So only Magna orders shipping so far?


Magna, no notice. Looks like only US customers have been reporting.


----------



## incredulousity

Not I yet. Kitsune, USA customer, Bliss KTE, ordered just after 6AM on first order day.


----------



## SlothRock

Boom. Just got my text from DHL! Being delivered Thursday!


----------



## incredulousity

SlothRock said:


> Boom. Just got my text from DHL! Being delivered Thursday!


Waaaahhhhh! I’m last, I guess


----------



## ozziegurkan

SlothRock said:


> When did you order @ozziegurkan


Same day it came out, I think: 11/6.


----------



## CSX142857

I ordered on the 8th. No DHL email yet


----------



## Rayon

My assumption is that in Europe it's shipped first to Magna and they ship it forward from within EU to avoid any hassle with customs etc.


----------



## seb7

From Kitsune website
42 lbs?!


----------



## Rayon

seb7 said:


> From Kitsune website
> 42 lbs?!


I assume they used May as a template and forgot to change it.


----------



## lucasratmundo

Contacted Magna about my Nov 29 order. They said it should ship by end of next week.


----------



## Xevv

Originally going to be delivered Friday, it’s now out for delivery today .


----------



## Nighthawk7397

Xevv said:


> Originally going to be delivered Friday, it’s now out for delivery today .


u lucky dog, hope you share a pic :]


----------



## Chartreuse

Reviewers seem to have missed their chance to dominate the conversation on impressions, they may still have a day or two left to get something out but the forums are going to be flooded by new owners stealing their thunder. 

If you want to get an immediate reputation, get a video posted before the popular reviewers that got units well in advance.


----------



## OneEyedHito

Chartreuse said:


> Reviewers seem to have missed their chance to dominate the conversation on impressions, they may still have a day or two left to get something out but the forums are going to be flooded by new owners stealing their thunder.
> 
> If you want to get an immediate reputation, get a video posted before the popular reviewers that got units well in advance.


I see what you did there, well played. Grease those wheels!


----------



## Rayon

Choo choo!


----------



## Delta9K (Nov 30, 2022)

It is exciting that units are beginning to trickle into the hands of some of our forum friends. With the exception of a limited few reviewers, I enjoy hearing from the real-world consumers even more.


----------



## EMINENT

Gonna be busy night....


----------



## Slim1970

EMINENT said:


> Gonna be busy night....


Oooh nice, waiting for sound quality impressions


----------



## Sound Eq

first impressions with susvara please ?


----------



## OneEyedHito (Nov 30, 2022)

EMINENT said:


> Gonna be busy night....







This crap just got real


----------



## Loose-Leaf

EMINENT said:


> Gonna be busy night....


I see you own the May KTE also , man what a beautiful stack I’m envious.


----------



## EMINENT

First impressions: Good knob feel.
Second impressions: Hmm... been up and down all night. Playing with filters and eq. 
Third impressions: Soundscape I think is the most spacious yet... rivaling or even surpassing the monoblocks.


----------



## arpasquill

EMINENT said:


> First impressions: Good knob feel.


It's the little (or big) things that count!


----------



## Derek Dean

I'm curious.  Does a piece of gear like Bliss need a certain amount of burn-in time to reach it's maximum potential?


----------



## Rayon

Derek Dean said:


> I'm curious.  Does a piece of gear like Bliss need a certain amount of burn-in time to reach it's maximum potential?


Here's the Spring 3 burn-in progress chart (source: internet):


----------



## Derek Dean

Ah, as I suspected.  Thanks Rayon.  So our preliminary reports for Bliss will be just that.... preliminary, until folks have had a chance to run it for awhile.


----------



## Loose-Leaf

As a Susvara owner its been a long , long wait for the Bliss to hit the market though I sure liked the 23-R Edluem driving the Susvaras it’s going to be interesting choosing between the two.


----------



## elf21400

Looking forward to more sharing, I saw some users on the Internet sharing that Bliss works well with Susvara, but I am also interested in how Bliss works with low-impedance headphones.


----------



## Loose-Leaf

elf21400 said:


> Looking forward to more sharing, I saw some users on the Internet sharing that Bliss works well with Susvara, but I am also interested in how Bliss works with low-impedance headphones.


Apparently Holo Audio used the Susvaras to voice the Bliss .


----------



## arpasquill

My wallet hopes that it’s rubbish 😉👍


----------



## incredulousity

Rayon said:


> Here's the Spring 3 burn-in progress chart (source: internet):


This picture is a joke, right? Love it!

Though I know May/Spring take 500 hours. Amps will likely take less time than that.


----------



## krude

incredulousity said:


> This picture is a joke, right? Love it!
> 
> Though I know May/Spring take 500 hours. Amps will likely take less time than that.


I own May for 1.5 years now and I swear it still burns in ...


----------



## Rayon

BobWrights said:


> Is there anyone out there who can compare the Holo Bliss to the Enleum AMP-23R?
> 
> EDIT: Headphone outputs only, of course. For reference, I am using the Susvaras, AMP-23R, and a Holo May lvl 2.


This would be interesting as well. I have never heard Enleum, but it keeps popping up.


----------



## MisterRogersHaus

I was wondering if anyone knows - does the Bliss have any sort of low/med/high gain switch or internal setting?


----------



## Rayon (Dec 1, 2022)

Just wrote Magnahifi if they could upload the manual PDF on their website. Someone from US could also email their dealer. Or maybe pics from manual?


----------



## Xevv (Dec 1, 2022)

_Very early_ impressions, less than 5 hours of use, mostly comparing with Burson Soloist GT. I no longer have a Susvara, so I will be using other headphones in my comparison.

Some notes about me:

I'm going to be saying things like, "a bit," and, "a little," a lot in my comparisons in these impressions. All these "little" differences add up to a lot, though.
Primarily using "electronic music" as my preferred genre of choice.
I love closer, engaging, dynamic driver headphones more than planar. In fact, I don't have any planars. Sorry / not sorry.
I'm not some famous audio reviewer, nor am I super proficient in technicalities of amplifiers and their innards. I'm just some guy who started this hobby 2 years ago. 
General:

Bliss has a big footprint on the desk, but I knew this going into the Bliss. Soloist has a more compact design and a nice stand to turn it vertically to save desk space.
Bliss's volume knob is extremely gratifying to use. This knob should be considered a "feature" on its own.
They could literally sell the knob as a stand-alone toy and I'd buy one for myself and more as Christmas gifts for my family.

In comparisons, I would say Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE is to the Holo Audio May KTE *as* Burson Soloist GT is to the Holo Audio Bliss.
This is probably the last headphone amp I'll buy.
I say "probably" because I said that about the Soloist GT, too, and here we are.


ZMF Verite Open:

My only Bliss criticism: The 4.4mm headphone out seems to elevate the bass a little, a little blurry with some tracks. Wonder if other Bliss owners will experience the same.
Bliss's headphone XLR out is nice. Feels more 'in control' with the XLR out. Going to probably use XLR out primarily, but maybe once in a while will switch to 4.4mm out.
Staying on XLR out for the rest of these impressions. ZMF Verite Open & Bliss sound is simply fantastic. Clear and not fatiguing at all. Has a little bit more control, cleanliness, and "realism" than Soloist GT did. It's certainly not night and day, though. Incremental. One could be absolutely happy with the Soloist GT as their end-game headphone amplifier and stop their audio journey for amps due to diminshing returns.
Volume was at Low Z, -30 db by default, and it is a nice, comfortable place to stay at for these headphones honestly. Going to -20 db, volume becomes a bit too much and you have to go back down. Even -28 db as me reaching to my volume knob to bring it down to -30.
It does not do what tube amps do to music, so there will still be room in one's collection for a tube amp for that type of sound.
Sennheiser 560s - Standard headphone out:

Bliss is more realistic than Soloist GT, adds a bit more resolution/detail to drums, but Soloist GT worked very well with the 560s and was no slouch, either. Edge barely goes to the Bliss.
HarmonicDyne Zeus - XLR out

Easier to drive than the Verite Open, I had to turn volume down to -40 db.
Just a wonderful headphone experience, glad I haven't sold these headphones. Everything is just a bit faster on the Bliss than the Soloist GT. "Snappier" is probably the word GoldenSound would use.
Bliss gives a little more "verticality" and "soundstage" on these than the the Soloist GT.
Focal Elex - XLR out

These are_ pretty much the same_ on these two amplifiers as far as my hearing goes. Maybe 1-2% faster highs/treble on Bliss, really hard to tell, though.
Sennheiser 650 - XLR out

For some reason I never really liked how the Soloist GT drove these, and only kept these headphones to use on tubes.
Harder to drive, turning these up to -27 ~ -25 db.
Just a wonderful experience with the 650 & Bliss. Preferred Bliss over Soloist GT.


----------



## Slim1970

Xevv said:


> _Very early_ impressions, less than 5 hours of use, mostly comparing with Burson Soloist GT. I no longer have a Susvara, so I will be using other headphones in my comparison.
> 
> Some notes about me:
> 
> ...


Is your Soloist 3X GT in stock form or with upgraded op-amps?


----------



## SlothRock

Xevv said:


> _Very early_ impressions, less than 5 hours of use, mostly comparing with Burson Soloist GT. I no longer have a Susvara, so I will be using other headphones in my comparison.
> 
> Some notes about me:
> 
> ...



Awesome initial impressions! I'm wondering if the bit of bass bluriness you're seeing on 4.4 is based off the output impedance of the two inputs. XLR is 0 ohm output impedence on Low Z and 4.4 is 2 ohm output impedance on Low Z. Not a huge difference, but could be potentially leading to slight bass bloat? Did you try your ZMF's on the Hi Z setting? I would actually figure Hi Z would be a better match for ZMF Dynamic cans


----------



## koso

incredulousity said:


> This picture is a joke, right? Love it!


That picture is my work Uploaded some time ago. Just wanted to share my experience with Spring 3 KTE burn in process. It wasn't meant as a joke, but it was clear to me that I couldn't avoid certain comments. But I do not mind


----------



## SlothRock

Oh hello


----------



## DJJEZ

SlothRock said:


> Oh hello


they look so good together


----------



## Chartreuse

SlothRock said:


> Oh hello


Alright!! Let’s get some Susvara impressions! 

Although I guess mine is coming tomorrow and I’ve waited this long already…


----------



## ozziegurkan

Me three!










Now decisions! Go straight from Spring3 to Bliss or through Serene?

Will run a compare against OOR tonight.


----------



## ozziegurkan

All hooked up! Took a hot minute. Decided to use switcher from the DAC output and hear it straight from Bliss and OOR.


----------



## EMINENT

My stacking.


----------



## Chartreuse

How hot is it? I’m still telling myself I can stick the May’s power box in between the May DAC and Bliss to keep the heat away from the sensitive bits and it’ll be fine


----------



## EMINENT

Chartreuse said:


> How hot is it? I’m still telling myself I can stick the May’s power box in between the May DAC and Bliss to keep the heat away from the sensitive bits and it’ll be fine


May is hotter, then Bliss, then PS.


----------



## ozziegurkan

Listening to Black Mambo by Glass Animals w/Susvara Dekoni pads. Soundstage is wide, imaging is fantastic and resolution is superb. I can feel the snare drum hits. Sub bass is ohhh my. Volume pot at 0db. LoZ. All XLR connections.


----------



## incredulousity

4th person to order on opening day (I hear through channels) from Kitsune, and still no shipping notification. And no update from Kitsune.

@bimmer100 ???


----------



## xxearvinxx (Dec 1, 2022)

ozziegurkan said:


> Will run a compare against OOR tonight.


Interested to hear your thoughts on the two amps. I owned the Oor + Hypsos to pair with my Susvara, but it didn’t blow me away like I had hoped.
I was thinking about going for a Benchmark AHB2 and using a Holo Serine as the Preamp. Then I stumbled across the Bliss and have been waiting for people to get it in their hands before making a decision.


----------



## AcousticMatt

ozziegurkan said:


> Me three!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn! Even the box is pretty!


----------



## rmsanger

Xevv said:


> _Very early_ impressions, less than 5 hours of use, mostly comparing with Burson Soloist GT. I no longer have a Susvara, so I will be using other headphones in my comparison.
> 
> Some notes about me:
> 
> ...


IMO this is one of the best points of comparision to make.  Would you say this difference overall between the two are substantial or very minute?  Do you think overall they are in the same class/tier of amplifier or is the bliss clearly ahead?   The volot, oor + hypsos, 3GT were all pretty even reviewed (especially when you upgraded op amps).


----------



## EMINENT

Update: Took some time yesterday with HQP filters and low shelves to find the magic but found it late last night and then I had to go to bed.
Throwing the 5's on just a few ago and it's still there. I'm really loving this right now. Everything is just fantastic.


----------



## Rhodey

This has me interested… if I pick this up I may have to get the sus to go along with it… if they’re a solid pairing.


----------



## SlothRock (Dec 1, 2022)

Some really quick thoughts - the volume knob really is everything people have hyped it up to be. Haven't had any amp with a better volume knob. Solid, clicky, very satisfying.

As far as THE most initial thoughts ever (like 30-40 minutes of play time) and some initial comparisons to the OOR + Hypsos are that it slams every bit as well but the soundstage is certainly more expansive and there is more texture to the sub bass. Will have quite a bit more thoughts once I get much more listening time


----------



## Chartreuse

EMINENT said:


> Update: Took some time yesterday with HQP filters and low shelves to find the magic but found it late last night and then I had to go to bed.
> Throwing the 5's on just a few ago and it's still there. I'm really loving this right now. Everything is just fantastic.


Share those Hqp settings!


----------



## EMINENT

Chartreuse said:


> Share those Hqp settings!


It's not just this, but the convolution and low shelf altogether. Will be assuredly different for everyone and their gear.


----------



## ozziegurkan

Here are mine: 



I have a -4db gain setting.


----------



## arpasquill

ozziegurkan said:


> All hooked up! Took a hot minute. Decided to use switcher from the DAC output and hear it straight from Bliss and OOR.


It’s this test I’m most excited to hear your thoughts about. I have a great offer on a Ferrum stack so the Bliss would be double the price.


----------



## ozziegurkan (Dec 2, 2022)

arpasquill said:


> It’s this test I’m most excited to hear your thoughts about. I have a great offer on a Ferrum stack so the Bliss would be double the price.


I did a little testing last night but I don’t want to say anything yet until I repeat the same few songs with the Sus on the same volumes. I set the Hypsos to 24v and hi gain to properly match up to the Bliss. I'm trying to avoid the new and shiny toy is the better period that my brain is in right now to make any judgment calls. I can preliminary tell you that it resolves more in the midrange, more texture feel in the sub bass, and seems to give more air or imaging around vocals and instruments. And, this is for electronic music. Crazy, right?However, too early and it could be my brain forcing something.  Stay tuned.


----------



## brianfromspace

Nice to get early impressions in. It mirrors my first experience with the Bliss. Didn’t had the Enleum next to it to AB. Really looking forward to someone sharing their experiences w/23R vs Bliss


----------



## SlothRock

ozziegurkan said:


> I did a little testing last night but I don’t want to say anything yet until I repeat the same few songs with the Sus on the same volumes. I set the Hypsos to 24v and hi gain to properly match up to the Bliss. I'm trying to avoid the new and shiny toy is the better period that my brain is in right now to make any judgment calls. I can preliminary tell you that it resolves more in the midrange, more texture feel in the sub bass, and seems to give more air or imaging around vocals and instruments. And, this is for electronic music. Crazy, right?However, too early and it could be my brain forcing something.  Stay tuned.


I’m in the same boat as you trying to reserve my feelings and resist the new toy excitement while comparing but, so far, have much of the same thoughts in comparing to the OOR.


----------



## OneEyedHito

If the Oor could keep up with the Bliss on Susvara I’d be surprised based on experience with Oor (which was good btw) and Jeff voicing the Bliss with the Susvara specifically. Jeff knows what he’s doing according to my ears and tastes with all of his other products.


----------



## CSX142857

These pics and early impressions got me refreshing my email feverishly for that DHL shipment notice lol.

My DAC just came in too and now all that's left is the Bliss


----------



## Wrasseman

As someone with an oor+hypsos w/ susvara and was looking to upgrade my modius to a spring 3 KTE, stumbling on this thread is alarming to be sure - especially hearing I could potentially get better soundstage if I also moved to the Bliss. Keep those impressions coming and thank you!


----------



## Sound Eq

i wonder how it compares to enleum amp 23R


----------



## JooLoo

thinking about this amp for my ab1266 tc im just waiting on reviews


----------



## auded33

Sometimes we can can become a bit obsessed with deciphering the smallest of sound differences between components. Another consideration is form factor, whether your tastes be large or small. I have the Ferrum stack. It sounds better than my HPA4 but not quite as good as my Serene and I'm still waiting for Bliss to arrive. But the Ferrum stack form factor for me is great. Just a thought.


----------



## FooFighter

Also wondering what better actually means.
I believe it's more about tuning preferences and synergies than anything else 🙄


----------



## Rayon

FYI for fellow Europeans: I got email from Magna that my Bliss has been shipped.


----------



## auded33

FooFighter said:


> Also wondering what better actually means.
> I believe it's more about tuning preferences and synergies than anything else 🙄


If you think deeply enough, everything in life is subjective. So 'better', albeit a subjective term, is as good as anything else.


----------



## FooFighter

auded33 said:


> If you think deeply enough, everything in life is subjective. So 'better', albeit a subjective term, is as good as anything else.


That's why I was pointing it out 😉


----------



## lucasratmundo

Rayon said:


> FYI for fellow Europeans: I got email from Magna that my Bliss has been shipped.


Same here.


----------



## genefruit (Dec 2, 2022)

Mine has arrived and I'm running it through the initial trials.  One aspect I was unaware of is related to the preamp.  Both the XLR and RCA are active when using the preamp function.  This is useful for me, as I use both to feed two different amps, which provides me the opportunity to have more than one person listen at the same time.

Does anyone familiar with the Serene know if it works the same way, meaning all output are live at the same time?


----------



## Greg121986 (Dec 2, 2022)

First and foremost, *RED ALERT!!* The Holo RED seems to be available from Kitsune!! I just placed an order. I’ve been waiting forever on this. Financial security be damned! https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-red-ddc-network-streamer/

Bliss has landed on time from DHL. First impression is that it’s very heavy. May be heavier than Spring 3 KTE. Second, the case work is of lower quality than my Spring 3 KTE and even the two Spring 1 KTE that I had prior. The top specifically has sharp edges along the side and does not align flush to the front plate. Considering the cost of Holo gear today, I’m pretty unhappy with this. The Bliss cost more than my Spring 3 KTE. They need to correct this moving forward. From my experience, Holo is top of the charts in terms of Chinese HiFi gear, only surpassed by Kinki in terms of build quality excellence. My particular unit is just under par from what I expected.

It also came with an RMT-2 remote control. I think this was mentioned elsewhere. This is an improvement from the RMT-1 that I have with my Spring 3. The buttons in the RMT-2 are of a tighter tolerance so they do not click-clack when you shake it. They will still make noise if you shake the remote around, but it’s more of a dull thud. There is still movement in the buttons but it’s a non issue and does not sound like a child’s rattle. The feel of pressing each button also feels more satisfactory than RMT-1. The RMT-2 seems to only work with the Bliss, and RMT-1 only works with the Spring 3.

I am using the Bliss right now as a stereo pre-amp. I’ve been wanting to try a Holo preamp for awhile. First impression is it sounds excellent. Zero complaints. Chain is _Linux MPD USB —> Spring 3 KTE —> XLR to Holo Bliss —> XLR to Audia Flight FLS-4 fully balanced power amp —> Focal Electra 1028 Be_. So fully balanced chain throughout. Again, zero complaints. I will try headphones soon enough.


----------



## LKir

Greg121986 said:


> The RMT-2 seems to only work with the Bliss, and RMT-1 only works with the Spring 3.


If you ask, you can order new RMT-3 from Kitsune, Magna or Wildism HK


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## Greg121986

LKir said:


> If you ask, you can order new RMT-3 from Kitsune, Magna or Wildism HK


Well as I just put in an order for the Red… I hope that Kitsune can help me out here.


----------



## ozziegurkan

genefruit said:


> Mine has arrived and I'm running it through the initial trials.  One aspect I was unaware of is related to the preamp.  Both the XLR and RCA are active when using the preamp function.  This is useful for me, as I use both to feed two different amps, which provides me the opportunity to have more than one person listen at the same time.
> 
> Does anyone familiar with the Serene know if it works the same way, meaning all output are live at the same time?


Yes, it is. I have Serene feeding my Woo. You can also feed a headphone directly from it but I have not tried it. Nice thing about Serene is that it has two XLR outputs active at the same time.


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## ozziegurkan

LKir said:


> If you ask, you can order new RMT-3 from Kitsune, Magna or Wildism HK


I need that. I have my Serene and Bliss on the same rack. The RMT-2 is messing with both volumes. I want the Serene to only feed my Woo and Bliss as just a headphone amp. Seems likely I need to be careful using the remote.


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## XVampireX (Dec 2, 2022)

Important to note for those who want the RMT-3 remote, there is no Output button for the Bliss so you won't be able to change between Lo-Z/Hi-Z/Preamp from the remote for example.

@ozziegurkan RMT-3 is probably still gonna affect both


----------



## ItHz

genefruit said:


> Does anyone familiar with the Serene know if it works the same way, meaning all output are live at the same time?


Yes, the Serene drives all outputs simultaneously.


----------



## EMINENT (Dec 2, 2022)

Ok. I can't believe what i'm hearing...

I took off the bass shelf and left straight convolution only and it's hitting the spot tonight. Brain burn, unit burn-in, mood?
First night, 3.3 db
Second night, same
Third none
4th..


----------



## ozziegurkan

EMINENT said:


> Ok. I can't believe what i'm hearing...
> 
> I took off the bass shelf and left straight convolution only and it's hitting the spot tonight. Brain burn, unit burn-in, mood?
> First night, 3.3 db
> ...


I’m currently listening to the whole Dreamland album on OOR. It’s good, really good. I need this before I switch over to Bliss. OOR does hit really well like a 300B. If I were to conclude eventually I might state that the OOR is tubey while Bliss is straddling the gateway between tubey and solidey? I know don’t judge it yet.


----------



## ozziegurkan

ozziegurkan said:


> I’m currently listening to the whole Dreamland album on OOR. It’s good, really good. I need this before I switch over to Bliss. OOR does hit really well like a 300B. If I were to conclude eventually I might state that the OOR is tubey while Bliss is straddling the gateway between tubey and solidey? I know don’t judge it yet.


Just switched to Bliss. Is anyone hearing more height in the soundstage?


----------



## EMINENT

ozziegurkan said:


> Just switched to Bliss. Is anyone hearing more height in the soundstage?


I wouldn't have noticed or described it that way but maybe so. I equated to depth but it could be both? Whatever it is, it's rivaling the monoblocks or surpassing them and those were already surpassing Oor/Hypsos.


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## XVampireX

ozziegurkan said:


> Just switched to Bliss. Is anyone hearing more height in the soundstage?



How's Utopia on it?


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## CinnamonToastCrunch (Dec 3, 2022)

I’m using my Bliss exclusively with Mad24c’s for now. My initial impressions are after about 3 hours of tracks I recently listened to on a Sangxer SA1 and Topping A90, (my previous amps which I still own).

For comparison as a frame of reference:
VS the SA1 using 4.4mm balanced output:
Bliss has a little bit wider soundstage
Mids are more forward (but not too forward, I would say they are center, in a pleasing location
Bass is significantly more dynamic with “punchiness”, tone, and grip
No rolloff on the highs like there is on the SA1
The resolution on the Bliss is more granular and you can hear more intricacies than the SA1
The imaging and layering are enjoyable on the SA1 but the Bliss offers better dynamics, depth, precision, and a more complete image across the entire spectrum.

VS the A90 (4.4mm balanced)
Bliss has infinitely more depth and layering
Detail retrieval is great in both but the Bliss’s dynamics allow it to create a huge landscape in all directions where the A90 is mostly linear in its dynamic range. Layering and depth on the A90 is almost non existent to my ears now and attempts at imaging are not exciting.
The Bliss has higher resolution than the A90, way better separation and clarity in the all details. A90 is quick but analytical, Bliss is just as quick but with super finesse to place sounds as a complete image with depth.

My thoughts as I was listening was kind of in the realm of “This reminds me of the soundstage and depth of the SA1 - with the detail retrieval of the A90” the 2 things I like best about both those amps…. But the more I threw at it the more I am convinced that Bliss is easily way beyond all of the best characteristics of either of those amps.

So far I’m most impressed with the following (in order)
1. The punchlines, tone/grip of the bass (Excellent for EDM/Electronic music which is my preferred genre)
2. Dynamics, depth, separation, layering and soundstage.  It’s able to position sounds behind or in front way out wide, wide-high or narrow low all while maintaining clarity in the softer notes and easily allows you to see the positioning with your eyes closed, it’s very believable.
3. The mids are highly resolved, possibly slightly elevated, but not in an unpleasant way. With the mids sounding the way they do it allows for an enormous dynamic range. The clarity and slight forwardness that the mids offer makes layering behind and around them almost seem easy for the Bliss.

Edit: a side note. I did try High-Z. I found only one song I preferred to use it with and that was Peter Frampton’s Do you Feel Like We Do (Live). In this track in low-Z it sounded closer to the A90’s analytical mids which cause the cheers and clapping of the crowd to overpower the music on stage. In High-Z the mids become recessed and the overall sound is less dynamic and it sounded a lot more like the SA-1 for this song, but in High-Z the music was really able to become the focus more than the crowd and it sounded beatiful. After experiencing this I experimented on other songs but because the High-Z seemed to kill dynamics on my Mad24’s I preferred low-Z.

Those are my initial thoughts and impressions with the Mad24c’s which I adore and am continually transcended by (review currently being penned).  So far, the Bliss is everything I liked about the previous amps I’ve used, and so much more.


----------



## jlbrach

_VS the A90 (4.4mm balanced)
Bliss has infinitely more depth and layering
Detail retrieval is great in both but the Bliss’s dynamics allow it to create a huge landscape in all directions where the A90 is mostly linear in its dynamic range. Layering and depth on the A90 is almost non existent to my ears now and attempts at imaging are not exciting.
The Bliss has higher resolution than the A90, way better separation and clarity in the all details. A90 is quick but analytical, Bliss is just as quick but with super finesse to place sounds as a complete image with depth._

I own the A90 and I think it cost me 300 dollars or something...it is perfectly fine as a backup or travel amp but I would think the bliss is in another league, at least I would hope so


----------



## ozziegurkan

XVampireX said:


> How's Utopia on it?


I just switched to it. Listening to RÜFÜS Surrender remixes which is very airy electronic music. I thought that it would fatigue with so much clarity coming from the bliss, but no; it is amazingly rich and full end to end with no sibilance. Of course, the sub bass of the Sus isn’t there in the Utopia but it has a really well textured dynamic bass. Utopias are really sensitive but amazingly clear and forward for which the Bliss is treating it with the most care taking it to its limits but not overdoing the forward nature. It truly is amazing as well. I need to compare it to the OOR.


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## CinnamonToastCrunch (Dec 3, 2022)

jlbrach said:


> _VS the A90 (4.4mm balanced)
> Bliss has infinitely more depth and layering
> Detail retrieval is great in both but the Bliss’s dynamics allow it to create a huge landscape in all directions where the A90 is mostly linear in its dynamic range. Layering and depth on the A90 is almost non existent to my ears now and attempts at imaging are not exciting.
> The Bliss has higher resolution than the A90, way better separation and clarity in the all details. A90 is quick but analytical, Bliss is just as quick but with super finesse to place sounds as a complete image with depth._
> ...


I agree.. for the money the A90 and SA1 are awesome values. I just wanted a way to reference something else I had which happened to be these 2 amps.. I bought the SA1 knowing I had the bliss incoming but wanted to get something to compare it to to have an idea of what it did or didn’t do differently to “something” else. I used a D90/A90 + Arya v2 for the majority of my Headphone life and thought I was nearly at end game. Then I got the Mad24c’s which instantly made my Arya’s sound flat and anemic and made me reach for a better DAC/Amp since I could also now hear the limits of the D90/A90 stack.. which is how I ended up here. But for the money I feel like the A90 gets you 87% of the way and SA1 gets you 91% of the way there in terms of Bliss special sauce. It’s the subjective last 10% where satisfaction justifies the blank checks. I could live with any of the 3 amps I referenced but the Bliss is more holographic and it’s something the Mad24’s really excel at projecting.


----------



## ozziegurkan

ozziegurkan said:


> I just switched to it. Listening to RÜFÜS Surrender remixes which is very airy electronic music. I thought that it would fatigue with so much clarity coming from the bliss, but no; it is amazingly rich and full end to end with no sibilance. Of course, the sub bass of the Sus isn’t there in the Utopia but it has a really well textured dynamic bass. Utopias are really sensitive but amazingly clear and forward for which the Bliss is treating it with the most care taking it to its limits but not overdoing the forward nature. It truly is amazing as well. I need to compare it to the OOR.


Switched to Diana v2 and wow sub bass is back and has massive texture. I recently bought these headphones on a deal from Woo and they are definitely very special as compared to the Sus. The Bliss is driving the planar with so much control. There must be really good damping going on in the output stage. I am going to have to try my ZMFs soon to see how high impedance works.


----------



## tesox

Thank you really very much for your impressions !!!
You own a Susvara like me and many other wich have an eye on this amp. Most or many high end amps perform very well
with ZMF and what so ever headphones but not with Susvaras, so I (we) would be very grateful if you could focus a little more on the big elephant in the
room. How does this amp drive the Susvara ??? Is it worth 4K to let the Susvara shine or just another of these "ok but not great" amps.
Sorry, this is not meant offensive but I think most ppl are curious about only that question.


----------



## Garak

Greg121986 said:


> Bliss has landed on time from DHL. First impression is that it’s very heavy. May be heavier than Spring 3 KTE. Second, the case work is of lower quality than my Spring 3 KTE and even the two Spring 1 KTE that I had prior. The top specifically has sharp edges along the side and does not align flush to the front plate. Considering the cost of Holo gear today, I’m pretty unhappy with this. The Bliss cost more than my Spring 3 KTE. They need to correct this moving forward. From my experience, Holo is top of the charts in terms of Chinese HiFi gear, only surpassed by Kinki in terms of build quality excellence. My particular unit is just under par from what I expected.


Hmm, that's really really disappointing. I'd say 1/2 my desire to buy the Bliss stems from having matching units. 

Anyone else notice this difference between their Bliss and other Holo products??


----------



## genefruit

Garak said:


> Hmm, that's really really disappointing. I'd say 1/2 my desire to buy the Bliss stems from having matching units.
> 
> Anyone else notice this difference between their Bliss and other Holo products??


May L2 and Bliss here.  I don't notice a difference but they're sitting on shelving system to my left and out of sight.


----------



## SlothRock

Garak said:


> Hmm, that's really really disappointing. I'd say 1/2 my desire to buy the Bliss stems from having matching units.
> 
> Anyone else notice this difference between their Bliss and other Holo products??



I have mine side by side - they look fantastic together. Case quality is similar IMO:


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## Garak

SlothRock said:


> I have mine side by side - they look fantastic together. Case quality is similar IMO:



Thanks, they do seem to look identical. Maybe that was just a one off then?!


----------



## ARCXENOS

I am curious, did anyone order the L1 variant? 

Probably not, the price difference is not a whole chunk so I guess most people will just want to pet the fox


----------



## xxearvinxx

@SlothRock does the Spring 3 go silent for a moment when the next song has a different sample rate, like the May?


----------



## XVampireX

Well it's the same case with all their devices the KTE variant is not that expensive


----------



## SlothRock

xxearvinxx said:


> @SlothRock does the Spring 3 go silent for a moment when the next song has a different sample rate, like the May?



Ya when it switches sample sizes for different songs there is a very slight pause


----------



## xxearvinxx

SlothRock said:


> Ya when it switches sample sizes for different songs there is a very slight pause


Thanks, I’ve been debating getting the Spring 3 and Bliss.
I don’t know what sample size most of my music is. It’s probably half songs I downloaded over a decade from torrents and half Apple Music downloads in the last few years. 
Just not sure how annoying it would be if it paused constantly, since I shuffle songs often.


----------



## FooFighter

SlothRock said:


> Ya when it switches sample sizes for different songs there is a very slight pause


Interesting, I ve never paid attention that there's a longer pause than with other DACs maybe because I am using HQPlayer most of the time which will cause an even longer pause because of the upsampling processing of the server


----------



## Rayon

incredulousity said:


> I am happy with it alone. But also, sometimes I want a solid state amp. And a volume remote control.
> 
> Also, Envy has both balanced and SE on both input and output side. It’s internal topology is single ended, so there is no benefit of using XLR input with it, other than hotter input voltage.
> 
> In my stack, Envy is fed by RCA and the SS amp by XLR.


Btw comparisons to Envy would be very interesting as well even though it's a bit apples vs oranges.


----------



## krude

tesox said:


> Thank you really very much for your impressions !!!
> You own a Susvara like me and many other wich have an eye on this amp. Most or many high end amps perform very well
> with ZMF and what so ever headphones but not with Susvaras, so I (we) would be very grateful if you could focus a little more on the big elephant in the
> room. How does this amp drive the Susvara ??? Is it worth 4K to let the Susvara shine or just another of these "ok but not great" amps.
> Sorry, this is not meant offensive but I think most ppl are curious about only that question.


Susvara is a wildly misunderstood headphone imo. From my experience you can max it out on any $2k+ amp with over 4W per channel, but the rest of your system needs to be sorted out as well. What Susvara needs to shine is getting close to 100% of dynamic range from the system, that's it. I am on a journey with Susvara for over 1.5 years now and I feel I maxed it out on HA6a and Ferrum. I think I would've also maxed it out on the Soloist GT if I had the desire to "build it up" with op amp matching and a better PSU. To give some perspective Susvara in my system (which is nothing special tbh) has the the dynamics accross the range and bass impact close to Utopia and TC while still doing the sweet natural and spacious Susvara thing. I'm sure Bliss will max Susvara out no problem with voicing similar to the Soloist GT ... just a guess tho. From my observation people pay too much attention to the amp, which is the initial limiting factor, and completely overlook the rest of the chain including good quality, bit perfect digital etc.


----------



## Rayon

krude said:


> From my observation people pay too much attention to the amp, which is the initial limiting factor, and completely overlook the rest of the chain including good quality, bit perfect digital etc.


Couldn't agree more. Amp _is_ important, but it's just one potential bottleneck. Bit perfect and _true_ high end DAC definitely make all the difference. Non bit perfect loses all the microdetail, mid-fi dac limits the setup to sound small. It's a trap to stop the DAC journey at good measurements (looking at you Qutest and D90).


----------



## incredulousity

Rayon said:


> Btw comparisons to Envy would be very interesting as well even though it's a bit apples vs oranges.


It looks like I will have Bliss on Monday or Tuesday. Tim was finally able to get me the tracking information yesterday.


----------



## SlothRock

xxearvinxx said:


> Thanks, I’ve been debating getting the Spring 3 and Bliss.
> I don’t know what sample size most of my music is. It’s probably half songs I downloaded over a decade from torrents and half Apple Music downloads in the last few years.
> Just not sure how annoying it would be if it paused constantly, since I shuffle songs often.


It honestly feels like less than a second - the same length from just pressing “next song” and waiting for the song to play. I’ve never noticed it once or thought that it took any type of extended time to switch to a different sampling rate. Also, it will only switch sampling rates like that if it’s in wasabi exclusive mode anyways - you can just keep it at a static sampling rate if you decide. It’s seriously a non issue either way


----------



## CinnamonToastCrunch

I didn’t have a chance to use my my Bliss/May yesterday but did keep them on and warmed up for when I was ready.. I just checked on them today as I was going to set them to run audio to further “break them in” since my May is only 150 hours old and the Bliss has 3-4 hours and in so doing I noticed they were quite toasty hot.. 

When I got the Bliss I moved the May from a cabinet with fans to a cabinet in which I have not yet install the fans and let’s just say I won’t be running either of these without fans running over them. The May was barely warm in the previous cabinet. I don’t have an option to run these open air unfortunately. Just a heads up for anyone planning on semi - stacking without open air, which is probably none of you 😅. Will be throwing an exhaust fan out the back of the cabinet as well. I have fan on all my HT AV equipment and I’m certain these are the toastiest components I own.


----------



## ozziegurkan

tesox said:


> Thank you really very much for your impressions !!!
> You own a Susvara like me and many other wich have an eye on this amp. Most or many high end amps perform very well
> with ZMF and what so ever headphones but not with Susvaras, so I (we) would be very grateful if you could focus a little more on the big elephant in the
> room. How does this amp drive the Susvara ??? Is it worth 4K to let the Susvara shine or just another of these "ok but not great" amps.
> Sorry, this is not meant offensive but I think most ppl are curious about only that question.


It absolutely and effortlessly drives the Susvara with amazing soundstage and sub-bass texture. Of course, the DAC and your sound source are of absolute importance here as well. In addition, I have three other amps that drive Sus beautifully (WA5, Bigger Ben, and OOR) and this is at the same level as well. So, if it was missing something I would have noticed it.  Currently, I’m trying to decide and the relative differences between them.


----------



## Chartreuse

Rayon said:


> Just wrote Magnahifi if they could upload the manual PDF on their website. Someone from US could also email their dealer. Or maybe pics from manual?



I just got mine, and there isn't a manual. The box includes the unit, the remote, and a power cord - nothing more


----------



## lucasratmundo

I’ll have to stack the Bliss and May due to space constraints. Any recommended feet/isolator to add space between the units?


----------



## lucasratmundo

Chartreuse said:


> How hot is it? I’m still telling myself I can stick the May’s power box in between the May DAC and Bliss to keep the heat away from the sensitive bits and it’ll be fine


Same here. I’ll have to stack them due to space constraints. Has anyone got official response from Holo regarding having the PSU unit between May and Bliss?


----------



## koso

lucasratmundo said:


> I’ll have to stack the Bliss and May due to space constraints. Any recommended feet/isolator to add space between the units?


Isoacoustic Orea! Tested on my Spring 3KTE unit. Recommended!


----------



## mfgillia

lucasratmundo said:


> Same here. I’ll have to stack them due to space constraints. Has anyone got official response from Holo regarding having the PSU unit between May and Bliss?


Tim at Kitsune recommended that or alternatively using minimum of two inch spacers between components.


----------



## lucasratmundo

mfgillia said:


> Tim at Kitsune recommended that or alternatively using minimum of two inch spacers between components.


Just to make sure I understand: Bliss at the bottom, PSU in the middle and May on top is fine?


----------



## ARCXENOS

I placed a KTE preorder from wildism, which I guess is gonna be in the batch after the next...gonna have to listen vicariously through y'all for now.

Anyone used speaker amps + susvara before? Wonder whats the difference is like, now with the bliss


----------



## XVampireX

ARCXENOS said:


> I placed a KTE preorder from wildism, which I guess is gonna be in the batch after the next...gonna have to listen vicariously through y'all for now.
> 
> Anyone used speaker amps + susvara before? Wonder whats the difference is like, now with the bliss



If at all it helps, our friend GoldenSound said that it's better than with AHB2 (Bliss+Susvara is better)


----------



## Rhemz (Dec 5, 2022)

lucasratmundo said:


> I’ll have to stack the Bliss and May due to space constraints. Any recommended feet/isolator to add space between the units?



checkers pieces work well.  they're cheap and they stack


----------



## Rayon

lucasratmundo said:


> I’ll have to stack the Bliss and May due to space constraints. Any recommended feet/isolator to add space between the units?


I ordered these: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07QPBNKCL


----------



## M700LTR

XVampireX said:


> If at all it helps, our friend GoldenSound said that it's better than with AHB2 (Bliss+Susvara is better)


Interesting. Seems that Bliss + May is a definitive combo for Susvara.


----------



## SlothRock (Dec 5, 2022)

Spent the entire weekend comparing and contrasting Ferrum OOR+Hypsos to Bliss. Here are my findings so far:

*Ferrum OOR + Hypsos Pros:*
-More convenient size for a desktop amp
-Wins in ease-of-use (just turn it on and get going. Barely need to play with any dials)
-Generates less heat if this is a concern for you

*Holo Bliss Pros:*
-Still very easy to use, but provides more options for a wider degree of flexibility across multiple headphones and setups (Switching on and off the preamp vs. always-on, Hi-Z and Low-Z modes, remote control)
-Volume control on both is great, but I prefer the Bliss volume control for sure. The knob is perfection. The volume control is very smooth, providing many steps and never being too quiet or too loud in my tests so far
-Overall better sound quality than the OOR+Hypsos:
-Even better bass impact, with more layering going on in the sub-bass​-Soundstage is improved. OOR+Hypsos has more an immediacy of sound due to the more narrow soundstage vs. Bliss having more ethereal qualities here​-Mids are brought forward slightly in comparison to OOR+Hypsos​-Hi Z brings a little bit of that "tube flavoring" (elevated bass, increased mids, etc) to ZMF dynamic cans that you just can't get with the OOR+Hypsos​-Micro details are more apparent with any headphone. Both my VC and Susvara feel like they're bringing little details to songs that I wasn't hearing through the OOR+Hypsos.​
I'm really, really pleased with the Bliss. The OOR + Hypsos is no slouch, either, but I'm having a tough time giving it any points in sound quality over the Bliss. The Bliss seems to take everything the OOR does and just adds it to in a very positive way.


----------



## OneEyedHito

lucasratmundo said:


> Just to make sure I understand: Bliss at the bottom, PSU in the middle and May on top is fine?


Yes May on bottom, PSU on top of May, and Bliss on top of PSU if you have to stack them but best scenario is in a rack with each item on it's own shelf.  That is a direct quote from Tim.


----------



## genefruit

SlothRock said:


> *Holo Bliss Pros:
> -Still very easy to use, but provides more options for a wider degree of flexibility across multiple headphones and setups (Switching on and off the preamp vs. always-on, Hi-Z and Low-Z modes, remote control)
> -Volume control on both is great, but I prefer the Bliss volume control for sure. The knob is perfection. The volume control is very smooth, providing many steps and never being too quiet or too loud in my tests so far*
> -Overall better sound quality than the OOR+Hypsos:
> ...


FWIW, my thoughts related to the Bliss are in alignment with post.  Especially those I've bolded.  Compared with CFA-3


----------



## drc73rp

genefruit said:


> FWIW, my thoughts related to the Bliss are in alignment with post.  Especially those I've bolded.  Compared with CFA-3


Interesting comparison to the CFA3. Based on what you didn't highlight, how does the bass and soundstage performance of the Bliss compare to the CFA3?


----------



## genefruit

drc73rp said:


> Interesting comparison to the CFA3. Based on what you didn't highlight, how does the bass and soundstage performance of the Bliss compare to the CFA3?


Bliss is a bit more forward on the mids.  I found bass and soundstage to be comparable.


----------



## drc73rp

genefruit said:


> Bliss is a bit more forward on the mids.  I found bass and soundstage to be comparable.


This is very promising for the 1266, hope somebody can share their experience with the TCs already.


----------



## ozziegurkan (Dec 5, 2022)

SlothRock said:


> Spent the entire weekend comparing and contrasting Ferrum OOR+Hypsos to Bliss. Here are my findings so far:
> 
> *Ferrum OOR + Hypsos Pros:*
> -More convenient size for a desktop amp
> ...


I concur with these comments as well.

One thing that stood out for me is the midrange and sub-bass texture. Ferrum sounded (only in relative comparison) a little softer and retracted in the treble, midrange, and soundstage, which probably makes it better for extended music listening sessions since it doesn't require critical listening.

With the Bliss, I find myself getting pulled into critical listening, but with none of the fatigue. Bliss isn't an amp producing music for the background (with all sources and headphones being equal, in my case Roon/Hqplayer/Spring3KTE/BlissKTE/Susvara); it pulls you into listen and catches the revealing notes.

Plus, it has a remote control! (a biggie for me)!

Power, tons of power folks, you can put away your speaker amps and use them for...speakers, yet again!

Not having to worry about tweaking the voltage levels in the Hypsos is both nice and potentially a "miss," if you can hear the differences (I have tried, but I can't for some reason). It is not a negative for me.

Being able to see the volume level is a plus esp if you are switching between a Utopia and Susvara often...you can miss it with the OOR if you forget to drop the gain switch from +db to -db.

Having a 4.4mm output for IEMs is a plus. Not a big deal, though.

Also, it doesn't hurt that there are more inputs to A/B your DACs and drive all of your amps.

I haven't yet tested the pre-amp outputs, but if it is anything like the Serene, then you are getting an amazing line out to drive your other tube amps and get remote control for free!

Time for some Cons:
- It's big, but then again it's still pretty like the other Holos and stacks nicely.
- It's hot...
- Remote control is the same for both Serene and Bliss, so...don't have it on the same rack like I do!
- It's revealing and super resolving, so no sugarcoating the recording source, not like Ferrum, if the recording sucks, it sucks listening to it through Bliss
- Doesn't remember volume by source (not like Topping Pre90), neither does OOR or any tube amp


----------



## SlothRock (Dec 5, 2022)

ozziegurkan said:


> I concur with these comments as well.
> 
> One thing that stood out for me is the midrange and sub-bass texture. Ferrum sounded (only in relative comparison) a little softer and retracted in the treble, midrange, and soundstage, which probably makes it better for extended music listening sessions since it doesn't require critical listening.
> 
> ...


Oh ya, you nailed it. Really like how you called out that the tone is over-all sharper and more resolving on the Bliss vs. the Ferrum. I'd agree on that note - I do think the Ferrum might be better for long listening sessions if true treble representation is fatiguing for a user or if their headphones already emphasize that region (HD800 style). But, at the same time, the Bliss doesn't represent these things in a fatiguing nature, it's just more true-to-life than the Ferrum in this regard.


----------



## ericx85

Hopefully another load gets shipped out this week. I can agree that the only con I can see with this amp is its size but considering what it brings its easily justified. With the Holo Red I think I'll be set until the May 2 happens and hopefully fixes the little nuances I didn't like with the current May.


----------



## ozziegurkan

drc73rp said:


> This is very promising for the 1266, hope somebody can share their experience with the TCs already.


I have the Diana V2s and the sub bass is epic, and the top end is crisp and sparkly. Of course, the Dianas are very mid-forward so it plays into it directly, which could be a plus or a negative if you are sensitive to it. I would really love to try the TCs, though, just no more money!


----------



## GoldenOne

Doing a few measurements now that I’ve spent enough time listening, will have a full set soon but figured I’d share initial basic results

Bal in Bal out:






All harmonics below -140dB

SINAD is about 120dB, and at 50mV IEM level you get 93dB SNR so it’s whisper quiet.

Handles 12W at 32 Ohms!!

Crosstalk is about -138dB upto 2.5khz. And rises to -125dB at 20khz.

THD remains constant and does not rise at higher frequencies (quite a few amps perform way better at 1khz than at 10-20khz for example).

Awesome stuff Jeff!

Only slightly unusual thing is the output impedances:

XLR-4 Bal: *0.1Ω* (Lo-Z), *15Ω* (Hi-Z)
4.4mm Bal: *2.2Ω* (Lo-Z), *17Ω* (Hi-Z)
6.35mm SE: *1.1Ω* (Lo-Z), *8.5Ω* (Hi-Z)

I’m guessing the higher output impedances on the 6.35/4.4mm connections are there for short protection. But if using IEMs for example and concerned about OI you could just grab an XLR to 4.4mm adapter and use that.


----------



## SlothRock (Dec 5, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> Doing a few measurements now that I’ve spent enough time listening, will have a full set soon but figured I’d share initial basic results
> 
> Bal in Bal out:
> 
> ...



Impressive initial measurements - especially when you consider the power this thing outputs!! Wow. No surprise, Holo is one of the best in the biz at creating a fantastic sounding device that is also ultra low-noise.


----------



## Greg121986 (Dec 29, 2022)

A couple pics. Some gratuitous, some informative. I wanted to show the finish imperfections I found so others can be on the lookout. I've had 3 Spring DACs (rev.1 and rev.3) and haven't seen these issues. There are some hairline scratches and one very noticeable scratch on the copper. More concerning is the beading of the anodizing along the edge of the top panel. I cannot tell if this is from the anodizing/paint? or if the aluminum top plate itself was not finished properly. You can feel this easily if you run your fingers along the edge and in the worst case you could catch your hand on it as the imperfection is along the side where you are likely to pickup the unit. I discovered it this way when I first pulled the unit out of the packaging.

*Update: *Kitsune took care of this issue immediately and without question! I promptly received a new, replacement Bliss in perfect condition. The original Bliss with the casework issues will go back to Kitsune and I will continue to be a happy customer. 



Second, I put the Bliss on a KillAWatt before racking it at my work desk. It immediately idled at 60W with no input or output, then went down to 54W. I also checked the power factor which was 0.74. This seems pretty low, but it might change if there was an input and load on the unit. Not sure here, but those who are being price gouged for their electricity costs may want to take note. I will definitely not be leaving the Bliss on when not in use. Hitting the power button on the front brought the measured power to 0.0W according to the KillAWatt. The input power was a perfect 120.5V and 59.9 Hz when I took these photos. Edit, got curious so put the KillAWatt back on under load. PF remained 0.74-0.75 but power draw reduced to around 46W at -30db Lo-Z into Focal Utopia. Your mileage will vary but it's a datapoint.




Finally, some glory shots on my rack. The McIntosh is getting sad because I have not used it in months.


----------



## Xevv

Mine does not have those types of edges :/.


----------



## SlothRock

Mine does not either - I do have a small section of my Bliss that has a rough edge and is silver instead of black, indicating it was unfinished or nicked/dinged. It wasn't a big deal to me but, at the same time, I was curious about how to resolve it since Holo Audio are expensive devices and you want a brand new product to look brand new. I hit up Tim at Kitsune (where I ordered from) and he gave me EXCELLENT customer service. They are going to ship me another Bliss, let me keep my current one until it arrives, and then they're going to give me a pre-paid FedEx label to ship my current one back. They earned a customer for life with this type of service.

If the finish is bothering you, you should contact whomever you purchased from and see about a replacement


----------



## nonamerat

GoldenOne said:


> Doing a few measurements now that I’ve spent enough time listening, will have a full set soon but figured I’d share initial basic results
> 
> Bal in Bal out:
> 
> ...



Good stuff here, thanks! Any chance that we will see some early comparisons to the HM1? I'm one foot off the ledge for a HM1 preorder, but wondering if the Bliss is 'good enough' for SS endgame. This would be with a May KTE.


----------



## OneEyedHito (Dec 5, 2022)

Greg121986 said:


> A couple pics. Some gratuitous, some informative. I wanted to show the finish imperfections I found so others can be on the lookout. I've had 3 Spring DACs (rev.1 and rev.3) and haven't seen these issues. Pretty bummed that my Bliss was this way out of the box. There are some hairline scratches and one very noticeable scratch on the copper. More concerning is the beading of the anodizing along the edge of the top panel. I cannot tell if this is from the anodizing or if the aluminum top plate itself was not finished properly. You can feel this easily if you run your fingers along the edge and in the worst case you could catch your hand on it as the imperfection is along the side where you are likely to pickup the unit. I discovered it this way when I first pulled the unit out of the packaging.
> 
> Second, I put the Bliss on a KillAWatt before racking it at my work desk. It immediately idled at 60W with no input or output, then went down to 54W. I also checked the power factor which was 0.74. This seems pretty low, but it might change if there was an input and load on the unit. Not sure here, but those who are being price gouged for their electricity costs may want to take note. I will definitely not be leaving the Bliss on when not in use. Hitting the power button on the front brought the measured power to 0.0W according to the KillAWatt. The input power was a perfect 120.5V and 59.9 Hz when I took these photos. Edit, got curious so put the KillAWatt back on under load. PF remained 0.74-0.75 but power draw reduced to around 46W at -30db Lo-Z into Focal Utopia. Your mileage will vary but it's a datapoint.


Cosmetic Issues like this (it happens on occasion with all products -  I use Asian manufacturing for about ½ of my products and US mfgring for the other half in the Fiber Optics Business so I speak from experience in both) are the reason we need in country distribution and I am grateful that we have that here in the states with Kitsune and not having to rely on Alibaba (equally as bad Amazon btw) for Jeff's great products. As for the power concern, this is a dual mono Class A amplifier, it is going to draw power when turned on, but there is no way in my experience that I prefer Class D over A for music.  I just don't.  #1stworldproblems


----------



## Xevv

I just wanna take a quick moment to say how underrated the Sennheiser 560s are. These headphones on the May + Bliss are just a wonderful. The Bliss really showcases how fun the 560s’ bass can be and how well these headphones’ clarity can scale with better and better gear.


----------



## M700LTR (Dec 5, 2022)

Placed my order. Wait time now seems to be 1 - 2 months. For those on the fence, might be a good idea to keep in mind Chinese New Year is around the corner (may/ will impact production time).


----------



## ozziegurkan

Listening to Will of the people by Muse and the chorus, drums, and passages are just right to my ears with no fatigue but just head-banging pleasure in my ZMF VOs with Bliss set to Hi Z mode. The Hi Z mode injects some warmth into the mid-bass of the VOs while the Lo Z clears it up. It’s subtle but you can feel it. It’s really fast to do A/B it from the couch with the output button. Fun. Really enjoying how clear snappy and dynamic it is.  It's really matching the beryllium's speed.


----------



## ozziegurkan

nonamerat said:


> Good stuff here, thanks! Any chance that we will see some early comparisons to the HM1? I'm one foot off the ledge for a HM1 preorder, but wondering if the Bliss is 'good enough' for SS endgame. This would be with a May KTE.


For the price of a HM1 you can get the Bliss plus Spring KTE.  Does that give the push?


----------



## SlothRock

ozziegurkan said:


> Listening to Will of the people by Muse and the chorus, drums, and passages are just right to my ears with no fatigue but just head-banging pleasure in my ZMF VOs with Bliss set to Hi Z mode. The Hi Z mode injects some warmth into the mid-bass of the VOs while the Lo Z clears it up. It’s subtle but you can feel it. It’s really fast to do A/B it from the couch with the output button. Fun. Really enjoying how clear snappy and dynamic it is.  It's really matching the beryllium's speed.



My man!! I'm on the VC right this very second in Hi-Z mode. Really, really love what this does to the VC and I can imagine on other ZMF dynamic cans in general. Provides some of the tube benefits for sure and the fact you can switch it on and off for your mood is *chefs kiss*. Just discovered Brandi Carlile and, while I'm not typically a country enthusiast by any stretch, this song is just grabbing me right now on this combo:


----------



## nonamerat

ozziegurkan said:


> For the price of a HM1 you can get the Bliss plus Spring KTE.  Does that give the push?


Ha, very valid point. The HM1 is silly expensive for SS, but I do like some of the unique features of it and I appreciate what Zahl does. The logic in me says it's not worth it, but logic gets thrown out the door pretty quickly in this hobby.


----------



## M700LTR

ozziegurkan said:


> For the price of a HM1 you can get the Bliss plus Spring KTE.  Does that give the push?


Aren't all the Zahl HM1 allocations sold out already? Will probably have to wait a while for delivery. For that price, you can probably stretch to Bliss + May (used/ Level 1 etc.).


----------



## nonamerat

M700LTR said:


> Aren't all the Zahl HM1 allocations sold out already? Will probably have to wait a while for delivery. For that price, you can probably stretch to Bliss + May (used/ Level 1 etc.).


There are still some available, at least as of Thursday when I checked.


----------



## CinnamonToastCrunch

I tried my Arya V3's on the May/Bliss tonight and pleased that they feel like a headphone worthy of keeping now.  After I got the MAD24's I couldn't listen to the Arya's anymore on the May/D90 - the Arya's just broke apart at higher volumes and became muddy in comparison.  On the Bliss the Arya's can be pushed to limits I've never encountered without the slightest hint of distortion and hold together well. They've never sounded this good.


----------



## incredulousity

Looks like soon, I’ll have two amps that make every headphone sound great, and in totally different ways.


----------



## FooFighter

Any feedback yet from Elite / Solitaire P owners?


----------



## auded33

ozziegurkan said:


> For the price of a HM1 you can get the Bliss plus Spring KTE.  Does that give the push?


I’ve got my order in for an HM1.


----------



## elf21400 (Dec 6, 2022)

auded33 said:


> I’ve got my order in for an HM1.


Is there a scheduled delivery time for the HM1 as you ordered?
I also ordered in September and was told that it will ship around March 2023.
So I just would like to check the status of other people.

Also I ordered Bliss last month and it's on the way.
Maybe get my Bliss this month.
Looking forward to a comparison between HM1/Bliss.


----------



## auded33

elf21400 said:


> Is there a scheduled delivery time for the HM1 as you ordered?
> I also ordered in September and was told that it will ship around March 2023.
> So I just would like to check the status of other people.
> 
> ...


Ordered last week from UK dealer. Estimated delivery is Q1 23. I've cancelled order for Bliss and just going for the HM1.


----------



## Rayon (Dec 6, 2022)

I was listening to some song from Roon radio with Utopia using Singxer SA-1 as my temporary amp and was thinking to myself: "man this sounds so good, can't wait to hear it through Bliss". Then I went to check what the song is so that I would find it later:


----------



## XVampireX

Rayon said:


> I was listening to some song from Roon radio with Utopia using Singxer SA-1 as my temporary amp and was thinking to myself: "man this sounds so good, can't wait to hear it through Bliss". Then I went to check what the song is so that I would find it later:



Not my type of music but nice cover art and I get what you mean with this of course 
Mine will probably be here early next week or mid week at the latest


----------



## Rayon

XVampireX said:


> Not my type of music but nice cover art and I get what you mean with this of course


Yeah, wasn't very special excluding few moments when the singer does her thing. The point was mostly the name of the artist which was a nice coincidence.


XVampireX said:


> Mine will probably be here early next week or mid week at the latest


UPS first promised me this week's Thursday, but then they switched to Friday. They better not hold it over the next weekend


----------



## Arniesb

GoldenOne said:


> Doing a few measurements now that I’ve spent enough time listening, will have a full set soon but figured I’d share initial basic results
> 
> Bal in Bal out:
> 
> ...


Jeff deserves all the praise! Top class measurements proves that you are good designer and tuning proves that guy have good ear.


----------



## ozziegurkan

Can you hear headroom in an amp? I know that sounds silly, but with powerful tube amps you can naturally and it feels  holographic and resolving with no congestion. I can hear this on the Bliss.


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 6, 2022)

It doesn't sound silly to me, and I know what you mean, but don't say stuff like that over on that other audio website. I'll hopefully have a similar experience within a few days, as my Bliss should finally be available to pick up today.


----------



## XVampireX

ozziegurkan said:


> Can you hear headroom in an amp? I know that sounds silly, but with powerful tube amps you can naturally and it feels  holographic and resolving with no congestion. I can hear this on the Bliss.


Yeah just check the measurements they are crazy good there is no place for any congestion to fit in 
For now Volot with the May also feels like that, but we'll see what Bliss is like in comparison


----------



## incredulousity

Bliss arrived. Have to inspect it in better light, but no obvious case flaws. Sounds great for something that needs 100hrs burn in. No surprise there! Installed SR purple fuse. Beginning unattended burn in.


----------



## CinnamonToastCrunch

incredulousity said:


> Bliss arrived. Have to inspect it in better light, but no obvious case flaws. Sounds great for something that needs 100hrs burn in. No surprise there! Installed SR purple fuse. Beginning unattended burn in.


Any plans to A/B the Red Nano vs the SR Purple? - I'm interested in this swap and curious if it will be noticeable.


----------



## EMINENT

incredulousity said:


> Bliss arrived. Have to inspect it in better light, but no obvious case flaws. Sounds great for something that needs 100hrs burn in. No surprise there! Installed SR purple fuse. Beginning unattended burn in.



Why would you go with swapping the fuse immediately instead of trying the Red? Also, did you also do Purple on your dac if it's changeable?


----------



## incredulousity

EMINENT said:


> Why would you go with swapping the fuse immediately instead of trying the Red? Also, did you also do Purple on your dac if it's changeable?


I did the swap and A/B with May and Envy and GSX Mk2. The purple fuse is better. The May fuse doesn’t suck at all. The stock fuse in Envy does actually suck, by comparison. I actually did that one first, and it made the most difference. I’m not going to bother A/B testing of fuses with Bliss. It will be great with either fuse. Perhaps some ultimate beeswax Quantum voodoo fuse Is even better. But I’ll stop here for now. 

2 hours in, and this Bliss is already the best SS amp I’ve heard, and it is still improving. Maybe in 100 hours I’ll have something coherent to say about it. For now, I just enjoy!


----------



## EMINENT

incredulousity said:


> I did the swap and A/B with May and Envy and GSX Mk2. The purple fuse is better. The May fuse doesn’t suck at all. The stock fuse in Envy does actually suck, by comparison. I actually did that one first, and it made the most difference. I’m not going to bother A/B testing of fuses with Bliss. It will be great with either fuse. Perhaps some ultimate beeswax Quantum voodoo fuse Is even better. But I’ll stop here for now.
> 
> 2 hours in, and this Bliss is already the best SS amp I’ve heard, and it is still improving. Maybe in 100 hours I’ll have something coherent to say about it. For now, I just enjoy!



Sorry, so you're using Purple in May and stock Red with Bliss? Or, do you have a Purple in each and you're not going to bother with Reds.


----------



## incredulousity

EMINENT said:


> Sorry, so you're using Purple in May and stock Red with Bliss? Or, do you have a Purple in each and you're not going to bother with Reds.


The latter.


----------



## EMINENT (Dec 7, 2022)

I haven't listened in a couple days and the usual filters I swap between, xla, gauss hires, ext2,ext3 were sounding a bit thin tonight. Tried some 512 and EC filters and they are fuller than I remember. I think the low shelf I was always running kinda limited the effects a bit.
So, I tested a few new ones tonight back up to 1024 and tried this combo and wow. That fullness, body and bass and most importantly, emotional connection is back! I'm still wondering how Bliss/May can sound so well without the additional bass shelf I have run before.


----------



## XVampireX

Because May does Bass well and Bliss does Bass well, so you don't need a boost, yolo.
Interesting on the Utopia how it would be...
I know I keep mentioning Volot but it certainly improved for me and I can hear and FEEL the bass in most cases (For now I'm guessing it depends on the mastering) and it's very pleasant, but I'm wondering if Bliss will improve it even more that it will be relentless and powerful?


----------



## Arniesb

Niimbus vs Bliss comparison would be very welcome.


----------



## Rhodey

Arniesb said:


> Niimbus vs Bliss comparison would be very welcome.


I would hope it’s better…


----------



## sahmen

Arniesb said:


> Niimbus vs Bliss comparison would be very welcome.


I second that.


----------



## NoTimeFor

How is the preamp volume performance of Bliss when using with speakers? Does it sound same as Serene? 
I am trying to if I should get Serene as I like speaker listening mostly. 
Also can anyone recommend who makes dual XLR headphone cables if I want to use headphone with Serene?

Thanks.


----------



## SlothRock

NoTimeFor said:


> How is the preamp volume performance of Bliss when using with speakers? Does it sound same as Serene?
> I am trying to if I should get Serene as I like speaker listening mostly.
> Also can anyone recommend who makes dual XLR headphone cables if I want to use headphone with Serene?
> 
> Thanks.



I have never heard the Serene, so I can't give you that comparison, but the preamp is really, really good on the Bliss. I have a pair of Neumann KH 120's and I was using the preamp a TON over the weekend while having some friends over and playing some tunes. Compared to my OOR, the bass impact was definitely more prominent (a couple folks commented on this who aren't audiophiles), more micro details throughout and a larger, less narrow sound. Apparently Wildism or another vendor was in a chat with a member here who said the Bliss preamp is 60-70% of what you get with the Serene so I don't think you'd be disappointed if you were trying to consolidate.


----------



## ozziegurkan

EMINENT said:


> I haven't listened in a couple days and the usual filters I swap between, xla, gauss hires, ext2,ext3 were sounding a bit thin tonight. Tried some 512 and EC filters and they are fuller than I remember. I think the low shelf I was always running kinda limited the effects a bit.
> So, I tested a few new ones tonight back up to 1024 and tried this combo and wow. That fullness, body and bass and most importantly, emotional connection is back! I'm still wondering how Bliss/May can sound so well without the additional bass shelf I have run before.


That is one powerful machine you have there! I can't do that with the M1 mini. I have 512 DoP. Unfortunately, Mac can't do 1024 natively. I use Sinc-S and I really like it. I might try the filter you have.


----------



## auded33

Interesting to compare Bliss and Serene for both preamp and headphone function. The Serene XLR1 output to drive headphones is excellent. Noticeably better than my Ferrum Hypsos/ORR setup.


----------



## ozziegurkan

auded33 said:


> Interesting to compare Bliss and Serene for both preamp and headphone function. The Serene XLR1 output to drive headphones is excellent. Noticeably better than my Ferrum Hypsos/ORR setup.


I have the Serene as well but never tried the headphone out. I want to actually try the Bliss preamp out vs Serene out into my WA5 and see if there any noticeable differences. If there is none, then I might just eliminate Serene from my rack.


----------



## auded33

Yes, that would be a test to do. I have a feeling that the Serene headphone out via XLR1 might sound just as good as Bliss except for the most power hungry headphones like Susvara. The Serene is not to be underestimated, it’s a cracking amp.


----------



## FooFighter

auded33 said:


> Yes, that would be a test to do. I have a feeling that the Serene headphone out via XLR1 might sound just as good as Bliss except for the most power hungry headphones like Susvara. The Serene is not to be underestimated, it’s a cracking amp.


That's a very intersting statement I really like to get some feedback about also from other people trying to ignore the new toy bias...


----------



## incredulousity

Funny. If I use the Bliss remote Output button, pointed at Bliss, it changes output. If I point it away from Bliss, it turns on/off my bedroom space heater.


----------



## SlothRock

incredulousity said:


> Funny. If I use the Bliss remote Output button, pointed at Bliss, it changes output. If I point it away from Bliss, it turns on/off my bedroom space heater.


Hidden added value 😂😂


----------



## deafenears

incredulousity said:


> Funny. If I use the Bliss remote Output button, pointed at Bliss, it changes output. If I point it away from Bliss, it turns on/off my bedroom space heater.





SlothRock said:


> Hidden added value 😂😂


hah yeah, who needs a Logitech Harmony universal remote these days.


----------



## mfgillia

Arrived a week early...


----------



## krude

mfgillia said:


> Arrived a week early...


Tasty rack


----------



## ARCXENOS

mfgillia said:


> Arrived a week early...


congrats, I just realised we almost have the same exact stack

except my bliss is probably in the batch after next


----------



## CSX142857

Been exactly a month since my order. Still no shipment email T_T

I know its 5+ weeks for order to complete but im getting a bit impatient lol. It's the last piece for my endgame setup.


----------



## Rayon

CSX142857 said:


> Been exactly a month since my order. Still no shipment email T_T
> 
> I know its 5+ weeks for order to complete but im getting a bit impatient lol. It's the last piece for my endgame setup.


The famous last piece


----------



## Rayon

Arniesb said:


> Niimbus vs Bliss comparison would be very welcome.





sahmen said:


> I second that.


Third.


----------



## Rayon (Dec 8, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> Doing a few measurements now that I’ve spent enough time listening, will have a full set soon but figured I’d share initial basic results
> 
> Bal in Bal out:
> 
> ...


Btw I would also be very interested in BAL in, SE out to see how much I need to buy balanced cable for Utopia.

EDIT: Ordered a balanced cable for Utopia anyway as I guess it would be waste to own May, Bliss and Utopia and not to ever try balanced. However those results would still be interesting.


----------



## GoldenOne

auded33 said:


> Interesting to compare Bliss and Serene for both preamp and headphone function. The Serene XLR1 output to drive headphones is excellent. Noticeably better than my Ferrum Hypsos/ORR setup.


I loved the Serene as a headamp, but the Bliss is considerably better. Primarily in dynamics/impact. This thing is punchy!
Also seems to be generally a little clearer sounding than Serene was with headphones.


----------



## ozziegurkan

While it might be too early to call, it’s very possible that my Ferrum will go on sale soon. I just need to get to a reasonable burned in feeling and get through my fav music collection.


----------



## ericx85

Considering I ordered the Holo Red on launch, I wouldn't be surprised if my bliss gets held so they can be shipped together. I don't mind the wait, just hope they or at least the bliss arrives before the new year.


----------



## SlothRock

ozziegurkan said:


> While it might be too early to call, it’s very possible that my Ferrum will go on sale soon. I just need to get to a reasonable burned in feeling and get through my fav music collection.



Good - you post yours first so I can undercut it by $1 when I list mine


----------



## JooLoo

GoldenOne said:


> I loved the Serene as a headamp, but the Bliss is considerably better. Primarily in dynamics/impact. This thing is punchy!
> Also seems to be generally a little clearer sounding than Serene was with headphones.


how is it as a preamp compared to serene?


----------



## auded33

GoldenOne said:


> I loved the Serene as a headamp, but the Bliss is considerably better. Primarily in dynamics/impact. This thing is punchy!
> Also seems to be generally a little clearer sounding than Serene was with headphones.


That’s helpful thanks. So the Bliss is a better headphone amp than the Serene. Presumably, the Serene is a better preamp than the Bliss otherwise the Serene will largely be made redundant. I’ve chosen to go with the Zahl HM1 over the Bliss just based on limited reviews and instinct and not having heard either of them, so not really an objective decision making process. Hope I’ve made the right choice. Perhaps GoldenOne could shine some light on this question?


----------



## incredulousity

I’m seriously thinking of selling GSX Mk2 and Mini to but a second Bliss for upstairs stack. It’s that good, ahead of schedule.


----------



## incredulousity

May/May power/Bliss


----------



## SlothRock

That Bliss is HOT - class A all the way. Luckily they could operate easily > 100C if needed


----------



## rmsanger

It will be interesting when the dust settles to see where the pantheon of Solid State amps rests.    Bliss and Zahl are the newcomers but there are a bunch of really great SS amps out there .   There is always a recency bias or FOTM so that will effect both of these for a year or so.   Mass Kobo 394 ii, OJI Special, Enleum/bakoon, Niimbus US5+, Vio V550/590, Volot, Soloist 3GT, Oor + Hypsos  would be a dream shootout.   Maybe throw in a Benchmark, Headtrip II /  Ray Samuels Dark Star, CFA3, XI/powerman stack.  For S&Gs you could see if the AG HE9, Vio 281, Mini GSX can even hang.

Going to be a fun year for hifi in 2023!


----------



## SlothRock

rmsanger said:


> It will be interesting when the dust settles to see where the pantheon of Solid State amps rests.    Bliss and Zahl are the newcomers but there are a bunch of really great SS amps out there .   There is always a recency bias or FOTM so that will effect both of these for a year or so.   Mass Kobo 394 ii, OJI Special, Enleum/bakoon, Niimbus US5+, Vio V550/590, Volot, Soloist 3GT, Oor + Hypsos  would be a dream shootout.   Maybe throw in a Benchmark, Headtrip II /  Ray Samuels Dark Star, CFA3, XI/powerman stack.  For S&Gs you could see if the AG HE9, Vio 281, Mini GSX can even hang.
> 
> Going to be a fun year for hifi in 2023!



I agree on the new toy syndrome and it's hard to be "objective" with that in mind. I can't compare the Bliss to all those amps of course but I did have the Soloist 3GT and have the OOR + Hypsos and it's pretty clear that the Bliss is ahead of them, both from myself and my non-audiophile friends who don't nearly care as much as I do about this kinda stuff haha so that's how I validate more of what I'm hearing/experiencing


----------



## Delta9K (Dec 9, 2022)

I'm a bit of a holo fan and currently contemplating upgrading my Spring3 KTE to May so I want to believe, but it's still pretty early in the game for the Bliss.

Not going to call anyone out specifically but only just a short while ago one of the folks who I respect and enjoy reading their contributions in this very thread was gushing over the Oor/Hypsos the same as they are now currently gushing over the Bliss.  So yes, I want the Bliss to be all its said to be but, time will tell. It will be interesting to see what current Bliss owners are talking about a year or even 6mos. from now.


----------



## SlothRock (Dec 9, 2022)

Delta9K said:


> I'm a bit of a holo fan and currently contemplating upgrading my Spring 3 KTE to May so I want to believe, but it's still pretty early in the game for the Bliss.
> 
> Not going to call anyone out specifically but only just a short while ago one of the folks who I respect and enjoy reading their contributions in this very thread was gushing over the Oor/Hypsos the same as they are now currently gushing over the Bliss.  So yes, I want the Bliss to be all its said to be but, time will tell. It will be interesting to see what current Bliss owners are talking about a year or even 6mos. from now.



Two things can be true at the same time. In no way do the qualities of the Bliss degrade anything the OOR + Hypsos does and I still LOVE the OOR + Hypsos - it's a fantastic amp that I would recommend to anyone. When I compare the two, we're talking a difference of a 9.2 score compared to a 9.3 or 9.4, for example. For me, even if the sound quality was identical, I'd still choose the Bliss simply due to having more inputs (4.4/XLR/6.35), the ability to switch the preamp on and off vs. always-on, Lo-Z and Hi-Z options and the volume knob. 

Those are features I simply find value in that others may not. Those same people may prefer an always-on preamp, the much much smaller desk space the OOR + Hypsos takes up, the lower heat output of the OOR + Hypsos and, of course, the sound.


----------



## Rayon

Me 9:55 PM:


----------



## Xevv

Delta9K said:


> I'm a bit of a holo fan and currently contemplating upgrading my Spring3 KTE to May so I want to believe, but it's still pretty early in the game for the Bliss.
> 
> Not going to call anyone out specifically but only just a short while ago one of the folks who I respect and enjoy reading their contributions in this very thread was gushing over the Oor/Hypsos the same as they are now currently gushing over the Bliss.  So yes, I want the Bliss to be all its said to be but, time will tell. It will be interesting to see what current Bliss owners are talking about a year or even 6mos. from now.


I definitely believe in using money carefully and wisely in this hobby. I think waiting for more reviews, or @GoldenOne ‘s video on the Bliss is a wise move!

I also believe people in this hobby definitely go through some kind of “honeymoon” phase with new products the first week or two of owning something. Waves of hype will start and die.

I will say, personally, the May DAC and Bliss amp have made me stop looking for DACs and amps. I think I’m just done with those journeys. It’s all up to new headphones coming out, at least for me.


----------



## JooLoo

i folded and just bought the bliss kte last night oh god im excited and petrified


----------



## GoldenOne (Dec 9, 2022)

Arniesb said:


> Niimbus vs Bliss comparison would be very welcome.


I've not spent proper time with Niimbus at home, but from my short time listening to it, I personally am not really sure it holds up against amps like the OOR, Bliss, HM1 etc.
Perhaps a couple years ago it would have been quite compelling but at the moment I wouldn't likely say it's a great option.

As mentioned though, this is just based on show impressions (with a couple headphones and IEMs) so take that with a pinch of salt. Would definitely like to spend some time with one at home.


JooLoo said:


> how is it as a preamp compared to serene?


I no longer have a Serene to AB with unfortunately, but from initial testing, it seems to be really damn good. I imagine if you just need a pre, you should go for Serene. But I don't think it's likely going to be worth the money to buy a serene if you have a Bliss already.


auded33 said:


> I’ve chosen to go with the Zahl HM1 over the Bliss just based on limited reviews and instinct and not having heard either of them, so not really an objective decision making process. Hope I’ve made the right choice. Perhaps GoldenOne could shine some light on this question?


My HM1 is arriving next week so hopefully can answer then. From the time I've spent with HM1 so far though, I think the HM1 is SLIGHTLY better than Bliss but really not by much, and the main advantage is in the flexibility and ability to tweak things with no feedback, soundstage adjustment etc.
Given as it's 2.5x the price of a Bliss (with a price increase coming soon) I don't think it's likely worth the extra for 99% of people. But if you are happy to pay whatever it takes for the best, then the HM1 is great.

Diminishing returns and value is hard to answer as it'll be different for different people.
I prefer Bliss to the OOR for example, but it's not a massive gap and when you can get an OOR standalone for nearly half the price of a Bliss, that will make a lot more sense for many people.


Delta9K said:


> I'm a bit of a holo fan and currently contemplating upgrading my Spring3 KTE to May so I want to believe, but it's still pretty early in the game for the Bliss.
> 
> Not going to call anyone out specifically but only just a short while ago one of the folks who I respect and enjoy reading their contributions in this very thread was gushing over the Oor/Hypsos the same as they are now currently gushing over the Bliss.  So yes, I want the Bliss to be all its said to be but, time will tell. It will be interesting to see what current Bliss owners are talking about a year or even 6mos. from now.


OOR/HYPSOS is still a phenomenal amp. I do prefer Bliss but it's not all that far ahead of OOR.
OOR is also a LOT more compact which will be a big factor for many given Bliss' size. And if you go without HYPSOS (which does make a nice improvement but it's still excellent without it) then the cost is nearly half that of the Bliss.


Rayon said:


> Me 9:55 PM:


----------



## xxearvinxx

@GoldenOne someone mentioned that you thought the Bliss was a better pairing with Susvara than the Benchmark AHB2. I haven’t been able to find where you might have stated this. 

I was debating getting an AHB2 and a preamp, like the Serene, until I came across the Bliss. Now I am wondering if that would be the better direction to go.


----------



## GoldenOne

xxearvinxx said:


> @GoldenOne someone mentioned that you thought the Bliss was a better pairing with Susvara than the Benchmark AHB2. I haven’t been able to find where you might have stated this.
> 
> I was debating getting an AHB2 and a preamp, like the Serene, until I came across the Bliss. Now I am wondering if that would be the better direction to go.


They're close, but I do think Bliss takes the cake.

The main thing is that the Bliss is the most holographic sounding solid state amp I've tried. The spatial presentation is honestly nuts and this synergises really well with Susvara's ability to place things convincingly within the soundstage.

AHB2 was quite good at this (on med gain, on low gain it honestly was outright worse at a lot of things weirdly), but Bliss is definitely the winner


----------



## JooLoo

GoldenOne said:


> They're close, but I do think Bliss takes the cake.
> 
> The main thing is that the Bliss is the most holographic sounding solid state amp I've tried. The spatial presentation is honestly nuts and this synergises really well with Susvara's ability to place things convincingly within the soundstage.
> 
> AHB2 was quite good at this (on med gain, on low gain it honestly was outright worse at a lot of things weirdly), but Bliss is definitely the winner


How was the synergy with the ab1266 in your testing?


----------



## spw1880

rmsanger said:


> It will be interesting when the dust settles to see where the pantheon of Solid State amps rests.    Bliss and Zahl are the newcomers but there are a bunch of really great SS amps out there .   There is always a recency bias or FOTM so that will effect both of these for a year or so.   Mass Kobo 394 ii, OJI Special, Enleum/bakoon, Niimbus US5+, Vio V550/590, Volot, Soloist 3GT, Oor + Hypsos  would be a dream shootout.   Maybe throw in a Benchmark, Headtrip II /  Ray Samuels Dark Star, CFA3, XI/powerman stack.  For S&Gs you could see if the AG HE9, Vio 281, Mini GSX can even hang.
> 
> Going to be a fun year for hifi in 2023!


Throw in wells audio headtrip III monoblocks not just the II. Wow what a shoot out that would be.


----------



## Chartreuse

I'm a week in, and loving this thing. I went from Chord DAVE + Soloist 3XGT > Holo May L2 + Soloist 3XGT > May L2 + Bliss. I only got the May 2-3 weeks before the Bliss, so I might be a little skewed. Switching from the DAVE to the May was a step change difference while the 3XGT to Bliss was more incremental, but it's been forward progress all the way. I thought I understood holographic and separation, and then I got these and realize I had no idea. The Bliss is incredibly punchy which is what I also liked about the Soloist, but there's more transparency and detail. I have them stacked up and haven't had any issues with heat, but they are fully open to the air on all sides and even the podium is slotted for air flow. The Holo May is CLEARLY worth the money (performance per dollar is better than just about anything else out there). The Bliss is better than the 3XGT, but more on the diminishing returns side of things. I've been looking for the best and I found it, but the 3XGT and (to a lesser extent, to my ears) the OOR are great amps too and I'd  counsel putting budget into the May before the Bliss. What a great stack to plug the Susvara into though, bravo.


----------



## rmsanger (Dec 10, 2022)

.


----------



## M700LTR

xxearvinxx said:


> @GoldenOne someone mentioned that you thought the Bliss was a better pairing with Susvara than the Benchmark AHB2. I haven’t been able to find where you might have stated this.
> 
> I was debating getting an AHB2 and a preamp, like the Serene, until I came across the Bliss. Now I am wondering if that would be the better direction to go.


I will let you know in Jan - Feb how AHB2 + Bliss is.


----------



## xxearvinxx

M700LTR said:


> I will let you know in Jan - Feb how AHB2 + Bliss is.


Thanks, I appreciate it! A ton of people swear by using a power amp with the Susvara and a lot of them recommend the AHB2. That’s the direction I was leaning till I came across the Bliss. 
Still could be some new toy bias, but so far everyone seems to agree the Bliss is better than some of the other top headphone amps, even if only slightly. Just haven’t seen any comparisons to a speaker amp yet to know if there are still some gains to be had going that direction. 
Excited to see what people think with more time and comparisons.


----------



## xxearvinxx

GoldenOne said:


> They're close, but I do think Bliss takes the cake.
> 
> The main thing is that the Bliss is the most holographic sounding solid state amp I've tried. The spatial presentation is honestly nuts and this synergises really well with Susvara's ability to place things convincingly within the soundstage.
> 
> AHB2 was quite good at this (on med gain, on low gain it honestly was outright worse at a lot of things weirdly), but Bliss is definitely the winner


Thanks for the quick reply! I’m glad I didn’t pull the trigger on purchasing an AHB2 quite yet.
Definitely more interested in the Bliss now and can’t wait to watch your review.


----------



## EMINENT

xxearvinxx said:


> Just haven’t seen any comparisons to a speaker amp yet to know if there are still some gains to be had going that direction.



Do you not count Hypex monoblocks as speaker amps?


----------



## GoldenOne

xxearvinxx said:


> Thanks for the quick reply! I’m glad I didn’t pull the trigger on purchasing an AHB2 quite yet.
> Definitely more interested in the Bliss now and can’t wait to watch your review.


AHB2 is great, but it was mostly something that had a reason to be part of a headphone system due to the lack of amps that would drive Susvara to the fullest extent.
Now that there's stuff like OOR, Bliss, HM1 etc, it's not really as much of a sensible option especially considering the cost once you add in a preamp.


----------



## xxearvinxx

EMINENT said:


> Do you not count Hypex monoblocks as speaker amps?


Was a comparison made between the two? There’s quite a few pages now on this thread, so I’m sure I missed some stuff.


----------



## EMINENT

xxearvinxx said:


> Was a comparison made between the two? There’s quite a few pages now on this thread, so I’m sure I missed some stuff.





EMINENT said:


> First impressions: Good knob feel.
> Second impressions: Hmm... been up and down all night. Playing with filters and eq.
> Third impressions: Soundscape I think is the most spacious yet... rivaling or even surpassing the monoblocks.



Maybe not in great detail but I stated above first few hours.


----------



## GoldenOne

JooLoo said:


> How was the synergy with the ab1266 in your testing?


AHB2 and 1266 works 'fine' but not necessarily the best.
Bliss and 1266 is better.
For 1266 specifically I prefer an amp that is more warm than what I'd like for most other headphones though.


----------



## krude (Dec 10, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> AHB2 and 1266 works 'fine' but not necessarily the best.
> Bliss and 1266 is better.
> For 1266 specifically I prefer an amp that is more warm than what I'd like for most other headphones though.


Oor is the best SS amp I've heard so far for the TC, depends on your preference but a decent tube amp could be even better. Stock Soloist GT (relatively bright and airy) was not a great match, not bad but the treble was getting way too sharp too often.

Both Oor and HA6a after extensive tube rolling max out the TC for sure. Easy compared with Susvara.


----------



## GoldenOne

krude said:


> Oor is the best SS amp I've heard so far for the TC, depends on your preference but a decent tube amp could be even better. Stock Soloist GT (relatively bright and airy) was not a great match, not bad but the treble was getting way too sharp too often.


Yeah I have OOR here currently too.

I like that a lot as well, but for me I just find that 1266 needs a slightly coloured amp to sound its best.

IHA6 actually worked nicely with it as did 23R


----------



## krude (Dec 10, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> Yeah I have OOR here currently too.
> 
> I like that a lot as well, but for me I just find that 1266 needs a slightly coloured amp to sound its best.
> 
> IHA6 actually worked nicely with it as did 23R


How many hours do you have on Oor? It gets significantly more tuby over time and warmup, also power conditioners ten to ruin the timbre on it, it really likes going directly into the wall. It sounded analytical to me on a poco, way over conditioned which killed the musicality.

Fun fact, HA6a on clean KT88 and neutral or clean 12au7 sounds siginificantly more SS than Oor in my system. I've spend last 3 weeks with tube rolling and Oor is my a / b reference point. It's not that easy to get HA6a even on EL34 to sound more tuby than Oor 😮🙈


----------



## GoldenOne (Dec 10, 2022)

krude said:


> How many hours do you have on Oor? It gets significantly more tuby over time and warmup, also power conditioners ten to ruin the timbre on it, it really likes going directly into the wall. It sounded analytical to me on a poco, way over conditioned which killed the musicality.
> 
> Fun fact, HA6a on clean KT88 and neutral or clean 12au7 sounds siginificantly more SS than Oor in my system. I've spend last 3 weeks with tube rolling and Oor is my a / b reference point. It's not that easy to get HA6a even on EL34 to sound more tuby than Oor 😮🙈


I've had this unit since before the OOR was officially released (I actually have 3 OOR units here currently XD). It has a lot of time on it
As to power conditioners, IMO it really depends on the one you're using. A lot of cheaper ones tend to have a negative effect on amps, making things sound somewhat restricted.
But the higher end stuff with current reservoirs provides either no change or a slight improvement. It really depends on whether your mains has any issues to begin with and what those issues are (some things can be addressed with a conditioner, some cannot and need a regenerator), and the device itself you're evaluating.
I've run the OOR on a Niagara 5000, 1200, Furman SPR 16 Ei, directly to the wall and it's currently running on a PS Audio P20


----------



## ARCXENOS

Chartreuse said:


> I'm a week in, and loving this thing. I went from Chord DAVE + Soloist 3XGT > Holo May L2 + Soloist 3XGT > May L2 + Bliss. I only got the May 2-3 weeks before the Bliss, so I might be a little skewed. Switching from the DAVE to the May was a step change difference while the 3XGT to Bliss was more incremental, but it's been forward progress all the way. I thought I understood holographic and separation, and then I got these and realize I had no idea. The Bliss is incredibly punchy which is what I also liked about the Soloist, but there's more transparency and detail. I have them stacked up and haven't had any issues with heat, but they are fully open to the air on all sides and even the podium is slotted for air flow. The Holo May is CLEARLY worth the money (performance per dollar is better than just about anything else out there). The Bliss is better than the 3XGT, but more on the diminishing returns side of things. I've been looking for the best and I found it, but the 3XGT and (to a lesser extent, to my ears) the OOR are great amps too and I'd  counsel putting budget into the May before the Bliss. What a great stack to plug the Susvara into though, bravo.



very nice, may I know hows the heat from the bliss onto may's psu? I bought a new rack to split them apart, if somehow using the PSU could work....I may have 1 more tier open to waste money on


----------



## Chartreuse (Dec 10, 2022)

ARCXENOS said:


> very nice, may I know hows the heat from the bliss onto may's psu? I bought a new rack to split them apart, if somehow using the PSU could work....I may have 1 more tier open to waste money on



It's totally fine. I don't sense the PSU being any hotter than it was when it was sitting under the May, it's pretty cool overall.

The PSU operates with a fairly uniform temp around the case, and only gets a little warm. It doesn't seem materially hotter when stacked vs. not -- having noticed it cool to the touch when using the May standalone, I figured it would make for a nice heat shield / extra heat sink between the two, especially since the power supply should be pretty rugged with respect to heat being absent the sensitive electronic bits.
The Bliss is hotter on the left side (opposite the power supply) and ejects heat from the bottom. The top is warm to the touch, but certainly not hot. With the PSU generating almost no heat of its own, this arrangement is essentially no different than the bliss hanging out on its own somewhere.
The May is hotter on the right side (again, opposite the power supply) and also ejects heat from the bottom. The right-top of the May in this arrangement is slightly warmer than the Bliss and slightly warmer than when standalone, but it's NOT hot to the touch. It's also not any hotter than the bottom of the May in this spot.
So, I think this is perfectly acceptable. The units have been on continuously for 12 hours now (doing a little unattended burn-in here and there) and there's nothing concerning. NOTE, though, that I'm in a podium arrangement. If you have these in a cabinet with restricted airflow I'm not going to make any warranties! Most important is to keep air on the right side of the May, since that's where most of the heat is generated. I also have a slotted podium so there's airflow from underneath which keeps things cool too.

I think you could get away with the Bliss on the bottom, May on top, PSU in the middle if you want even better cooling, since the May is hotter is needs a little more cooling than the Bliss. It's a little less convenient for my arrangement though because that puts the volume knob pretty low relative to my seating position.

Edit, some fun data points in my arrangement -- surface temp at:

Bliss, top right: 86 F
Bliss, bottom right: 86 F
Bliss, top left: 95 F
Bliss, bottom left: 101 F
PSU, top right: 85 F
PSU, bottom right: 85F
PSU, top left: 94F
PSU, bottom left: 95F
May, top right: 84 F
May, bottom right: 100 F
May, top left: 92 F
May, bottom left: 99 F
these are very non-scientific, taken with a thermapen touching the case. And of course external temperature tells you very little about internal temperature.


----------



## OneEyedHito (Dec 10, 2022)

Chartreuse said:


> It's totally fine. I don't sense the PSU being any hotter than it was when it was sitting under the May, it's pretty cool overall.
> 
> The PSU operates with a fairly uniform temp around the case, and only gets a little warm. It doesn't seem materially hotter when stacked vs. not -- having noticed it cool to the touch when using the May standalone, I figured it would make for a nice heat shield / extra heat sink between the two, especially since the power supply should be pretty rugged with respect to heat being absent the sensitive electronic bits.
> The Bliss is hotter on the left side (opposite the power supply) and ejects heat from the bottom. The top is warm to the touch, but certainly not hot. With the PSU generating almost no heat of its own, this arrangement is essentially no different than the bliss hanging out on its own somewhere.
> ...


Great reporting. One item of note is that Jeff recommends May bottom, PSU middle, Bliss top in a stacked config, meaning when not using shelves in between, when using shelves with airflow then stack to your ideal setup for aesthetics and access.


----------



## ARCXENOS

Chartreuse said:


> Edit, some fun data points in my arrangement -- surface temp at:
> 
> Bliss, top right: 86 F
> Bliss, *bottom right: 86 F*
> ...



well...I have always placed the DAC unit above the PSU, so I guess it should be fine for May bottom, PSU middle, Bliss top afterall, but I guess we will need internal temps to be sure


Alternatively I have been considering to get a thick slab of wood and 4 isoacoustic pucks as a heat sink, or










 incidentally its dimensions is just nice to act as a heat sink too


----------



## drc73rp

GoldenOne said:


> Yeah I have OOR here currently too.
> 
> I like that a lot as well, but for me I just find that 1266 needs a slightly coloured amp to sound its best.
> 
> IHA6 actually worked nicely with it as did 23R


I wonder if the non-KTE version would work better for the TC. Having less silver components - wiring, connectors, and standard caps might make it less neutral enough?


----------



## Chartreuse

drc73rp said:


> I wonder if the non-KTE version would work better for the TC. Having less silver components - wiring, connectors, and standard caps might make it less neutral enough?


Tim told me the silver didn’t impact the tonal balance, and that “bright” silver cables were that way because the material is expensive and therefore thinner gauges are employed. Which Holo doesn’t do. 

That’s what I understood, anyway - won’t make it sound thin and bright.


----------



## GoldenOne

drc73rp said:


> I wonder if the non-KTE version would work better for the TC. Having less silver components - wiring, connectors, and standard caps might make it less neutral enough?


I highly doubt it.
The silver wiring is just from the IEC inlet to the PCB anyway


----------



## JooLoo (Dec 10, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> AHB2 and 1266 works 'fine' but not necessarily the best.
> Bliss and 1266 is better.
> For 1266 specifically I prefer an amp that is more warm than what I'd like for most other headphones though.


got it maybe ill do eq or put tubes in the chain I was thinking a wa7 pre (for funsies) a wa22 pre or a pathos aurium which has a tube tape out.


----------



## lexterminator

I just found out about the Bliss yesterday and boy that got my attention 😄. While my Denafrips Artemis was out for repairs, I got a mint Bryston BHA-1 as a backup. I was already thinking about something like Violectric V550 or Niimbus as an endgame amp. The Artemis is very musical but quite warm and lacking dynamics. The Bryston is quite punchy and neutral but 3D imaging and instrument separation are medium at best. Looks like the Bliss would be the perfect fit. l'll keep an eye on this discussion and reviews !


----------



## XVampireX

How am I supposed to react to what just happened?


----------



## Rayon

XVampireX said:


> How am I supposed to react to what just happened?


Boom!


----------



## XVampireX

Exactly! In all the good ways


----------



## DMITRIY R

XVampireX said:


> How am I supposed to react to what just happened?


What is the score on the scoreboard in your match (Volot Vs Bliss)?


----------



## George Hincapie

XVampireX said:


> How am I supposed to react to what just happened?


I love forum posts with no context...


----------



## JooLoo

George Hincapie said:


> I love forum posts with no context...


----------



## Rayon

Those 1000+ pages under Bliss will be very different from those under DAVE.


----------



## genefruit

Rayon said:


> Those 1000+ pages under Bliss will be very different from those under DAVE.


Maybe, until people start transplanting the Bliss power supplies to external chassis and part swapping.


----------



## EMINENT

genefruit said:


> Maybe, until people start transplanting the Bliss power supplies to external chassis and part swapping.


Makes me wonder what May psu would've done for it.


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 11, 2022)

It’s so good already, that it is a bit difficult to imagine better, but maybe for the Boulder amp crowd! Separate dual mono power would not make it worse.

OTOH I can easily differentiate between my Spring 3 KTE and my May KTE, though difference is <10%.


----------



## Rayon

genefruit said:


> Maybe, until people start transplanting the Bliss power supplies to external chassis and part swapping.


I kind of hope that this never happens. My wallet and mental health would like Bliss to be the final Pareto optimum of headphone amping after which every attempt to make it better would fail miserably and everyone would always revert back to stock KTE.


----------



## GoldenOne (Dec 11, 2022)

Rayon said:


> I kind of hope that this never happens. My wallet and mental health would like Bliss to be the final Pareto optimum of headphone amping after which every attempt to make it better would fail miserably and everyone would always revert back to stock KTE.


I doubt it will 

Without commenting on the sonic effects of PSUs in various situations directly, there's a bit of a difference in what's being replaced here.
Bliss has a pretty nutty linear PSU with all the bells and whistles, custom flatwire O-Type transformer, tons of filtering and energy storage, regulation etc.

DAVE is using a pretty cheap switchmode PSU. (Not gonna comment on the sonic effects of replacing it as I've not tried doing so. For all I know the included SMPS could be perfectly sufficient, but it's understandable why people might want to replace that for peace of mind, or may take issue with a PSU that cheap being in a product so expensive)


----------



## sahmen

I'm sure this is discussed somewhere, but could someone explain the difference between the "Standard' and "KTE" versions of the Bliss? I am assuming the KTE version might be the preferable one, but i would like to know what makes it superior to the standard version.


----------



## Chartreuse

sahmen said:


> I'm sure this is discussed somewhere, but could someone explain the difference between the "Standard' and "KTE" versions of the Bliss? I am assuming the KTE version might be the preferable one, but i would like to know what makes it superior to the standard version.



Flatwire transformer vs. roundwire (supposed to dissipate heat better, limit surface effect and EMI); Copper wire is replaced with silver wire (greater conductivity); Upgraded connectors; Upgraded fuse (some might say the fuse is an unwelcome entry into the signal path, so make it better); Audio Note capacitors (better capacitors means better handling of demand swings). Also, there's a fox on the top.

Realistically I'm not sure all those things make a huge difference, but it's also only $400, and the KTE almost certainly has better value retention than the L1. It's not a Holo May situation where the L1 doesn't even have the good USB interface!


----------



## George Hincapie

$400 is $400. Money doesn't grow on trees last time I looked.


----------



## Ragnar-BY

sahmen said:


> but could someone explain the difference between the "Standard' and "KTE" versions


The most important difference between a KTE and a non-KTE is that the owner of a Kitsune Edition is much less stressed. Since for the next few years he is not worried about the question "maybe it was worth buying KTE?" 🤣


----------



## George Hincapie

incredulousity said:


> It’s so good already, that it is a bit difficult to imagine better, but maybe for the Boulder amp crowd! Separate dual mono power would not make it worse.
> 
> OTOH I can easily differentiate between my Spring 3 KTE and my May KTE, though difference is <10%.


You've conducted blind A/B?


----------



## George Hincapie

Ragnar-BY said:


> The most important difference between a KTE and a non-KTE is that the owner of a Kitsune Edition is much less stressed. Since for the next few years he is not worried about the question "maybe it was worth buying KTE?" 🤣


Do people really get stressed about that? The factory standard is good enough. KTE is just a subjective wallet grab; there's zero evidence that the changes do anything.


----------



## Chartreuse

George Hincapie said:


> Do people really get stressed about that? The factory standard is good enough. KTE is just a subjective wallet grab; there's zero evidence that the changes do anything.



Partner, I think you’ve wandered into the wrong saloon. And what do you mean no evidence? There are photographs of the Fox decal all over the internet!


----------



## George Hincapie

Chartreuse said:


> Partner, I think you’ve wandered into the wrong saloon. And what do you mean no evidence? There are photographs of the Fox decal all over the internet!


🤣


----------



## PcChip

George Hincapie said:


> Do people really get stressed about that? The factory standard is good enough. KTE is just a subjective wallet grab; there's zero evidence that the changes do anything.


saying that here is like going over to ASR and saying that ESS sounds different than AKM, in both cases you're gonna stir up a shitstorm


----------



## incredulousity

George Hincapie said:


> You've conducted blind A/B?


Welcome to HeadFi. Perhaps you would prefer A”S”R. And yes I have. The result was keeping both, rather than selling May, and Spring went to the secondary stack. 

I’ve not heard KTE vs non KTE versions, however. I was also fortunate to be able to buy both used, and already broken in— a phenomenon in which you might also not believe.


----------



## XVampireX

I will give my feedback after some burn in.
But first impressions are overall good.
Some things that I might have to check up on Volot since Bliss is optimized for use with their DACs as well and Volot was worked on using Terminator+ AFAIK so maybe the high voltage on the Volot is causing problems. The difference in sound is rather large in a good way of course. I don't mean to say that Volot is bad still, I'd need to maybe try and connect to another DAC that I have (That I have on sale but no one apparently wants yet... LKS MH-DA004 with USB upgrade)


----------



## mfgillia

Ragnar-BY said:


> The most important difference between a KTE and a non-KTE is that the owner of a Kitsune Edition is much less stressed. Since for the next few years he is not worried about the question "maybe it was worth buying KTE?" 🤣


Pretty much explains my thought process for going with the KTE. Nothing I read about the different components seemed particularly convincing...


----------



## XVampireX

Does anyone with the Utopia (I know someone was here that has the Utopia and Bliss) has any recommended settings or Convolution settings that they use?


----------



## Rayon

George Hincapie said:


> Do people really get stressed about that? The factory standard is good enough. KTE is just a subjective wallet grab; there's zero evidence that the changes do anything.


The 10% Fox Tax.

About that:


----------



## 801evan

GoldenOne said:


> Which is of course NOT what you should be looking at as no one would implement a SMPS with no filtering





GoldenOne said:


> DAVE is using a pretty cheap switchmode PSU.


Lol. Pick a lane.


----------



## GoldenOne (Dec 12, 2022)

801evan said:


> Lol. Pick a lane.


I'm not sure what you mean?
These two statements aren't related or at odds with eachother?

See the last sentence in the 2nd post you linked where I quite clearly said:


> Not gonna comment on the sonic effects of replacing it as I've not tried doing so. For all I know the included SMPS could be perfectly sufficient, but it's understandable why people might want to replace that for peace of mind, or may take issue with a PSU that cheap being in a product so expensive


----------



## Rayon (Dec 12, 2022)

Initial impressions:

Best holographic 3D space I've heard
Difference to any of my previous SS is clear both in space and in separation
Aries came quite close in space, but Bliss takes the first place
Especially x and z size, I could probably have a little bit more y as well


Difference to tube amps like Feliks Euforia AE and Echo mk II is there
Size of the stage isn't _clearly_ bigger, but it's bigger (especially the edge extends further)
Separation is clearly better


Finally there is enough attenuation steps for sensitive headphones
This alone made me smile as this was the biggest downside of SparkoS Aries

Clarity is amazing
Refinement is amazing
I'm happy that I own OG Utopia and not the (very slightly) bassier Utopia 2022
This thing will utilize the bass section of your headphone to the fullest

Now will have to wait and see if there's any burn-in. Happy with the purchase.

EDIT: Came here to update that these tests were done using XLR between May and Bliss using 6.3mm out for Utopia. Even though my current XLR interconnect is cheap Mogami 2549 from audiocables.eu, the staging is very clearly bigger (and crazier?) than using much more expensive Custom HiFi Cables Blue Range RCA. I also think that sound is less harsh on balanced. I'm not sure if it's because of Bliss or May (or both), but this setup seems to benefit a lot from XLR over RCA even when using single ended out for headphones.

Cables used:
https://www.audiocables.eu/products...neutrik-xlr-connectors?variant=39368260026448
https://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/audio-interconnects/midnight-range/blue-rca-rca


----------



## LuckyPantsu (Dec 12, 2022)

Could some of the owners describe the overall tonality of this amplifier? I'm now looking for something to pair HD800 and Susvara and was thinking about Trafomatic Head 2 when I first meet with info regarding Bliss. Now I'm curious about what will fit better.
Have Gustard r26 as DAC.
Any inputs are welcome


----------



## XVampireX

Rayon said:


> Initial impressions:
> 
> Best holographic 3D space I've heard
> Difference to any of my previous SS is clear both in space and in separation
> ...



The clarity and 3d imaging is really spot on

I still am not feeling in every song super punchiness but it's definitely there at least in some vibrations maybe a bit more than the Volot (Not by much)

What settings are you using for your Utopia?

Been burning in the amp all day today through music via Roon while working from Home without much chance to listen to it, but still every now and then try to put the headphones on and clarity seems to improve even more so far it feels. Maybe slight Bass improvements still...

I could say that due to its great measurements and power and design it's probably what makes it a powerhouse for bass, I've used it as a preamp, and that's basically what's happening with my speakers.

There's plenty of detail too.

I'm guessing the Headphones might be the limiting factor right now, especially for Bass 
So I don't know if Susvara is supposedly a bass light headphone how it can have such great bass that it's better than AHB2...


----------



## XVampireX

LuckyPantsu said:


> Could some of the owners describe the overall tonality of this amplifier? I'm now looking for something to pair HD800 and Susvara and was thinking about Trafomatic Head 2 when I first meet with info regarding Bliss. Now I'm curious about what will fit better.
> Have Gustard r26 as DAC.
> Any inputs are welcome


Read the post above you, this pretty much sums it up in reality.


----------



## GoldenOne

XVampireX said:


> I'm guessing the Headphones might be the limiting factor right now, especially for Bass


Utopia might be limiting some stuff for bass.
It's a super punchy headphone but also rolls off pretty fast into the subbass so there's gonna be a fair bit of stuff there which isn't as apparent as on say a planar.


----------



## Rayon

I also want to confirm that I've basically done some sensitive IEM acid testing. Works fine with Softears Cerberus.

Sensitivity: *104dB*/100mV@1kHz
Impedance: *5Ω*@1kHz(±15%)

Listening @ -65db and -3db in HQPlayer. I think I will very rarely go below -68db when attenuating also -3db from HQPlayer. Also I'm using XLR between May and Bliss and XLR out with 4.4mm-XLR adapter.

However, a friendly warning: with Campfire Andromeda situation could get tricky with this chain.


----------



## Rayon (Dec 12, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> Utopia might be limiting some stuff for bass.
> It's a super punchy headphone but also rolls off pretty fast into the subbass so there's gonna be a fair bit of stuff there which isn't as apparent as on say a planar.


I agree. However I've learned that _I want it this way_. I used to own HE6se V2 and all that sub bass kicking made my head hurt in the end. It was _super_ nice when I wanted to listen to those kicks. It was almost sexual feeling to listen to the lower end when things were so perfect. That gave me enormous satisfaction. However, after I had experienced what _for me_ was a perfect bass, I just wanted something that was more relaxing. At first I tried to solve the problem by lowering the gain in the system, but that made things just flat and boring. That's when Utopia came in.

Utopia has a lot of bass when necessary, but it's walking this very thin line where it gives you the sense of authority, but it still keeps things relaxing. IMO the sub bass is the key here. To me Utopia does the sub bass rolloff just right, especially when listening a bit louder. Sometimes I boost 50hz, 1.8db, 0.7Q when I listen at quieter levels to give more presence for the lower end.

Yes, I have had some moments when I've missed planar and Susvara is whispering my ear. However, for now I'm quite happy with Utopia. The rational side of my brain is telling me, that I should wait until 2023 when Hifiman announces Susgasm, their new ultimate statement TOTL @ 11'000€ and the market will be flooded with cheap mint Susvaras. Then this shark will strike.


----------



## rmsanger

nice the feedback on this amp thus far is intriguing... plus holo products hold their value relatively well on the secondary market so this is seeming like a no brainer if within budget.


----------



## Rayon (Dec 13, 2022)

Rayon said:


> I ordered these: https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07QPBNKCL


These are perfect. Costs below 30€ and measured that it's now exactly 5cm in between Bliss and May's power:



EDIT: And sorry for the fingerprints.
EDIT2: Bliss became quite hot with this arrangement. I could still comfortably keep my hand on top of it, but it was very cliearly hotter than my hand and something I would describe as "hot". I've now tried the same arrangement otherwise, but May and Bliss switched their places. Then Bliss stays nice and cool and May becomes very warm, but not as hot as Bliss was when it was in the bottom. After 1,5h of playing, even May starts to drift to the hot side though and it would be very interesting to know how hot it's from the inside. I would be quite hesitant to stack it like this without the extra space between the bottom item and PSU even when May in the bottom.


----------



## LKir

Finally
Holo Bliss full information and Manual
https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-bliss-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## LuckyPantsu

LKir said:


> Finally
> Holo Bliss full information and Manual
> https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-bliss-headphone-amplifier/


3398 USD on Kitsunehifi vs 4100$ on Magna for Europe...  😔


----------



## lator

LuckyPantsu said:


> 3398 USD on Kitsunehifi vs 4100$ on Magna for Europe...  😔


Ever heard of VAT?


----------



## chesebert

Can someone provide some context on the circuit topology? The output devices are obviously running bipolar push/pull config and the topology appears to be fully complementary. But what about input stage and amplifier stage? How is the current capability of the amp? Is the output direct coupled and how does it deal with DC offset given device operating parameter drift over time/temperature. Relay volume control is a plus, but SMD resistors are kind of cheap for such an expensive unit - a DACT will probably sound a lot better than their volume relay. 

The build quality looks generally high with some good parts, but the price is kind of nuts TBH - not Lina-level of craziness.


----------



## LuckyPantsu

lator said:


> Ever heard of VAT?


For goods from some countries, vat is not applicable, but thx for your friendly input 🫶


----------



## lator

LuckyPantsu said:


> For goods from some countries, vat is not applicable, but thx for your friendly input 🫶


I think it applies from China if I am not mistaken.


----------



## mfgillia

LKir said:


> Finally
> Holo Bliss full information and Manual
> https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-bliss-headphone-amplifier/


Thanks for posting - those are some pretty dramatic differences in power comparing low to high z. 🤔


----------



## XVampireX

chesebert said:


> Can someone provide some context on the circuit topology? The output devices are obviously running bipolar push/pull config and the topology appears to be fully complementary. But what about input stage and amplifier stage? How is the current capability of the amp? Is the output direct coupled and how does it deal with DC offset given device operating parameter drift over time/temperature. Relay volume control is a plus, but SMD resistors are kind of cheap for such an expensive unit - a DACT will probably sound a lot better than their volume relay.
> 
> The build quality looks generally high with some good parts, but the price is kind of nuts TBH - not Lina-level of craziness.



Don't let the SMD's fool you, it's really great quality. I can't say about topology though


----------



## SLC1966 (Dec 13, 2022)

mfgillia said:


> Thanks for posting - those are some pretty dramatic differences in power comparing low to high z. 🤔


I just ordered a Bliss!  Now the wait.

I am sorry if this has been discussed before and I know this is a basic sort of newbie question but when would you use LO Z vs. HI Z?  I have my simple mind set on low gain vs. high gain and this seems to be different.

From the Kitsune website:
_"Low impedance mode (LO-Z): Output impedance 0Ω, power 12Wrms@32Ω
High impedance mode (HI-Z): output impedance 15Ω, power 2.5Wrms@150Ω"

Edit:  with a quick search and using  ZMF HPs as a comparison the Caldera HP at 60 Ohms should be best on LO-Z and Verite Open for example at 300 Ohms should be best on HI-Z?_


----------



## dudeX

SLC1966 said:


> I just ordered a Bliss!  Now the wait.
> 
> I am sorry if this has been discussed before and I know this is a basic sort of newbie question but when would you use LO Z vs. HI Z?  I have my simple mind set on low gain vs. high gain and this seems to be different.
> 
> ...


If I were to follow Apple’s lead, I think 150 Ohms would be considered high impedance. 

This is different from gain.


----------



## chesebert

XVampireX said:


> Don't let the SMD's fool you, it's really great quality. I can't say about topology though


Do you know the brand? kind of  resistors they used and their tolerance? In any case even cheap resistors are better than a pot.


----------



## incredulousity

To my ears, the volume ladder on Bliss is even better than the DACT on GSX Mk2 and Mini. I also love the fact that the clicks are audible in the room, but not at all through the phones. Sound signature changes not at all with volume changes.


----------



## ericx85

I do miss the volume knob when I had a gsx2 way back when. I'm sure I'll love the one on the bliss even more. Hopefully more shipments go out soon.


----------



## chesebert

incredulousity said:


> To my ears, the volume ladder on Bliss is even better than the DACT on GSX Mk2 and Mini. I also love the fact that the clicks are audible in the room, but not at all through the phones. Sound signature changes not at all with volume changes.


Good to hear. The ladder is 128 steps? Any view on Bliss vs GSX?


----------



## Sound Eq

wonder which would be a more impressive amp for susvara auris nirvana or bliss ?

also I hope to read a comparison between enleum vs bliss used with susvara


----------



## Rayon (Dec 14, 2022)

This further confirmed that Sony MDR-Z1R is _very_ picky on an amp. While I feel that most headphones scale logarithmically or linearly at best, but MDR-Z1R to mee seems to scale exponentially. I had Singxer SA-1 for a while as a temporary amp and MDR-Z1R was quite meh experience (while Utopia was still quite good), but when plugged to Bliss, I'm not believing my ears that I'm listening to those cans. While for Utopia it was clear that Bliss was the best amp I had heard, for MDR-Z1R this is _very_ obvious. It's strange how much more I enjoy MDR-Z1R through Bliss than SparkoS Aries. I've mainly used that for meetings (as those are the most comfortable headphones I've ever used) and situations when I want closed cans, but now I'm also _actually_ enjoying them when listening to music, not just as a backup. The only amps I think those have paired nicely with are TA-ZH1ES, Feliks Euforia AE and now Bliss. I'd say that Bliss and Euforia share the first spot for MDR-Z1R, but they are very different (Euforia was _very_ magical with MDR-Z1R, but Bliss is technically in another league, there is a touch of magic as well and the space is _massive_ when the music calls for it).


----------



## XVampireX

Sound Eq said:


> wonder which would be a more impressive amp for susvara auris nirvana or bliss ?
> 
> also I hope to read a comparison between enleum vs bliss used with susvara



Apparently a local hifi store has both Susvara and ZMF Caldera and the Enleum AMP-23R. I will try to get an audition on both equipment if it will be possible


----------



## XVampireX

Rayon said:


> This further confirmed that Sony MDR-Z1R is _very_ picky on an amp. While I feel that most headphones scale logarithmically or linearly at best, but MDR-Z1R to mee seems to scale exponentially. I had Singxer SA-1 for a while as a temporary amp and MDR-Z1R was quite meh experience (while Utopia was still quite good), but when plugged to Bliss, I'm not believing my ears that I'm listening to those cans. While for Utopia it was clear that Bliss was the best amp I had heard, for MDR-Z1R this is _very_ obvious. It's strange how much more I enjoy MDR-Z1R through Bliss than SparkoS Aries. I've mainly used that for meetings (as those are the most comfortable headphones I've ever used) and situations when I want closed cans, but now I'm also _actually_ enjoying them when listening to music, not just as a backup. The only amps I think those have paired nicely with are TA-ZH1ES, Feliks Euforia AE and now Bliss. I'd say that Bliss and Euforia share the first spot for MDR-Z1R, but they are very different (Euforia was _very_ magical with MDR-Z1R, but Bliss is technically in another league, there is a touch of magic as well and the space is _massive_ when the music calls for it).



Do you have any special settings for the Utopia?


----------



## Rayon

XVampireX said:


> Do you have any special settings for the Utopia?


If you are asking if I eq, the answer is no. I sometimes add +1.8db/50hz/0.7Q if I listen quietly and want to give lower end some precense, but 98% of the time I listen to it as is. If you mean some other settings, the question needs further clarification.


----------



## XVampireX

Rayon said:


> If you are asking if I eq, the answer is no. I sometimes add +1.8db/50hz/0.7Q if I listen quietly and want to give lower end some precense, but 98% of the time I listen to it as is. If you mean some other settings, the question needs further clarification.


I meant in general but yeah, EQ was one of them just wondering if I'm missing any other secret sauce for the Utopia


----------



## Rayon (Dec 14, 2022)

XVampireX said:


> I meant in general but yeah, EQ was one of them just wondering if I'm missing any other secret sauce for the Utopia


Looking at your current setup, this at least looks like a potential bottleneck: "PC > Holo Audio May L3 KTE DAC"

Mine looks like: "Qobuz -> Roon -> HQPlayer -> Holo May KTE"

Lossless? Bit perfect / HQPlayer?

If by "PC -> May KTE" you actually mean "Spotify -> Windows sound processing -> May KTE", you will be amazed.


----------



## tesox (Dec 14, 2022)

I ordered a Bliss for my Susvara but ask myself what 12W @ 32ohms exactly means. Is it 12W per channel or 2 x 6 = 12?
The later would result in something like 3W per channel @60ohms / Susvara wich is not very impressive.
I know that many watts are not the only important factor and didn't necessarily guarantee good performance,
but it would be nice to know that it is potentially enough.


----------



## XVampireX

Rayon said:


> Looking at your current setup, this at least looks like a potential bottleneck: "PC > Holo Audio May L3 KTE DAC"
> 
> Mine looks like: "Qobuz -> Roon -> HQPlayer -> Holo May KTE"
> 
> ...



PC means from PC to stock USB to DAC to AMP, I'm currently using Roon if that matters, your chain should be PC as well if that is what you're running your Qobuz/Roon from.

And Yes, of course Lossless and BitPerfect, HQPlayer I'm using the trial version every now and then.

I don't mean that it sounds bad, I'm just looking to be optimized for the Utopia.


----------



## XVampireX

tesox said:


> I ordered a Bliss for my Susvara but ask myself what 12W @ 32ohms exactly means. Is it 12W per channel or 2 x 6 = 12?
> The later would result in something like 3W per channel @60ohms / Susvara wich is not very impressive.
> I now that many watts are not the only important factor and didn't necessarily guarantee good performance,
> but it would be nice to know that it is potentially enough.


Of course it's 12W per channel
And don't look just at the power, in reality Susvara doesn't need that much power even unless you want to be deaf.


----------



## tesox

XVampireX said:


> Of course it's 12W per channel
> And don't look just at the power, in reality Susvara doesn't need that much power even unless you want to be deaf.


I hope you're right. I've seen manufacturers wich add the per channel output to impress with max. output specs.


----------



## FooFighter

FooFighter said:


> Any feedback yet from Elite / Solitaire P owners?


Still no one?


----------



## incredulousity

I love Bliss with Elite. Better than on every amp but Envy, which is equal, but toooooby different. 

No experience with Solitaire P.


----------



## chesebert (Dec 14, 2022)

tesox said:


> I hope you're right. I've seen manufacturers wich add the per channel output to impress with max. output specs.


in reality 1 or a couple of quality watts at the most is all you need to drive Sus to the max.

12w/ch is typical manufacturer BS spec to impress the masses.


----------



## Delta9K (Dec 14, 2022)

If you're looking at the specs per channel in regards to powering Susvara you'd want to look at watts/ch @ 60ohms, not @ 32 ohms.

Not the best with math but a simple guess is that Bliss may be in the neighborhood of 6.4w/ch on LO-Z XLR output @60 ohms, based on the 20Vrms max of the Balanced XLR output rating in the manual.

Don't assume the above as fact: I'm not an engineer, only a consumer doing basic conversions to get approximates for personal comparisons.


----------



## Rhodey

Sus needs more than 1-2 watts. Definitely needs solid current. It’ll get loud but won’t be driven to it’s potential imo.


----------



## chesebert (Dec 14, 2022)

Rhodey said:


> Sus needs more than 1-2 watts. Definitely needs solid current. It’ll get loud but won’t be driven to it’s potential imo.


You would be wrong in that assumption. The math does not agree with you. Sus requires 1.59 watts at 9.75volts to get to 115dB loudness. Factor in 30dB headroom, and you would be listening at an average volume of 85dB. BTW, 0.5 watt will get you to 110dB.

Like I said, quality watts, your amp probably has poor power/current delivery. You need a better amp, not more watts.


----------



## tesox

Rhodey said:


> Sus needs more than 1-2 watts. Definitely needs solid current. It’ll get loud but won’t be driven to it’s potential imo.


Thats my experience as well.


----------



## Rhodey

chesebert said:


> You would be wrong in that assumption. The math does not agree with you. Sus requires 1.59 watts at 9.75volts to get to 115dB loudness. Factor in 30dB headroom, and you would be listening at an average volume of 85dB. BTW, 0.5 watt will get you to 110dB.
> 
> Like I said, quality watts, your amp probably has poor power/current delivery. You need a better amp, not more watts.


Haha ok! You go ahead and run the sus off whatever makes it loud. It’s your money.


----------



## tesox

chesebert said:


> You would be wrong in that assumption. The math does not agree with you. Sus requires 1.59 watts at 9.75volts to get to 115dB loudness. Factor in 30dB headroom, and you would be listening at an average volume of 85dB. BTW, 0.5 watt will get you to 110dB.
> 
> Like I said, quality watts, your amp probably has poor power/current delivery.


Like Rhodey says, loud and loud are not the same. But lets get back to topic. 12W per channel max. with around 6W at 60ohms is Susvara league.


----------



## chesebert

tesox said:


> Like Rhodey says, loud and loud are not the same. But lets get back to topic. 12W per channel max. with around 6W at 60ohms is Susvara league.


You are assuming Bliss doubles down when imp is halfed, which may or may not be true. I am skeptical the power supply can delivery that kind of current.


----------



## Rhodey

Currently using the Bryston BHA1, 2W @ 32Ω. Sus sounds good but it can do much better. Hopefully the bliss does what I hope it can.


----------



## tesox

chesebert said:


> You are assuming Bliss doubles down when imp is halfed, which may or may not be true. I am skeptical the power supply can delivery that kind of current.


It can do _2.5Wrms@150Ω _what points exactly in that direction_._


----------



## chesebert

tesox said:


> It can do _2.5Wrms@150Ω _what points exactly in that direction_._


That's actually pretty good.


----------



## ozziegurkan

I just retired my Ferrum OOR from the headphone listening rack to the living room speaker rack and injected it into the pre-amp stream! It is rocking my powered speakers. They now have a new life as a premium bypassed RCA to XLR converter. Kinda happy about it. Bliss has taken the helm as the SS lord...


----------



## chesebert (Dec 14, 2022)

Rhodey said:


> Currently using the Bryston BHA1, 2W @ 32Ω. Sus sounds good but it can do much better. Hopefully the bliss does what I hope it can.


that amp is under powered for Sus - lacking both current and voltage. It's not a bad amp just not a good fit for Sus.

Edit: I meant to say the amp is current limited; "lacking current" is not the proper way to describe the behavior.


----------



## Rhodey

chesebert said:


> that amp is under powered for Sus - lacking both current and voltage. It's not a bad amp just not a good fit for Sus.


No sh!t 😂
My whole point earlier. I had the wa33 before so I know what the sus can do off a properly paired amp. Reason for the bliss purchase and on this thread.


----------



## chesebert

Rhodey said:


> No sh!t 😂
> My whole point earlier. I had the wa33 before so I know what the sus can do off a properly paired amp. Reason for the bliss purchase and on this thread.


I don't blame you, Bliss spec looks promising. I will need to listen to it at the next canjam.


----------



## Rhodey

chesebert said:


> I don't blame you, Bliss spec looks promising. I will need to listen to it at the next canjam.


Bryston is just here while I wait. It’s my secondary amp anyways. Typically running the utopia off the dna stratus. Needed something like the bliss for the sus. Again, hopefully it’s legit.


----------



## paradoxper

chesebert said:


> in reality 1 or a couple of quality watts at the most is all you need to drive Sus to the max.
> 
> 12w/ch is typical manufacturer BS spec to impress the masses.


You should compare B22 to GS-X and then to Pure BiPolar, Dynahi and CFA3 with Sus and post your max findings.


----------



## centuriones

incredulousity said:


> I love Bliss with Elite. Better than on every amp but Envy, which is equal, but toooooby different.
> 
> No experience with Solitaire P.


I too am an Elite holder.
For this reason, could you describe how Elite has improved with the Bliss?


----------



## ozziegurkan

chesebert said:


> You are assuming Bliss doubles down when imp is halfed, which may or may not be true. I am skeptical the power supply can delivery that kind of current.


There are no issues with power delivery for the Sus from the Bliss. It is smooth energy delivered end-to-end with delicious sub-bass and massive soundstage and headroom. It is better than any head-amps I have owned specifically to drive it: Burson Soloist 3XGT, Ifi Pro iCAN Signature, and Ferrum OOR/Hypsos. So, now, the question is, will you plunk down the $$$ and buy it? Because you are going to like it if you do!


----------



## chesebert

ozziegurkan said:


> There are no issues with power delivery for the Sus from the Bliss. It is smooth energy delivered end-to-end with delicious sub-bass and massive soundstage and headroom. It is better than any head-amps I have owned specifically to drive it: Burson Soloist 3XGT, Ifi Pro iCAN Signature, and Ferrum OOR/Hypsos. So, now, the question is, will you plunk down the $$$ and buy it? Because you are going to like it if you do!


lol god no. I only buy things I have heard IRL  I will test drive it if they have it at the next canjam or axpona.


----------



## EMINENT

chesebert said:


> lol god no. I only buy things I have heard IRL  I will test drive it if they have it at the next canjam or axpona.


I bought blind and by fomo and it delivered and beyond based on my experience following dual mono speaker amps and Oor/Hypsos.


----------



## SlothRock

I have largely stopped responding in this thread because the Bliss has just taken over. Meaning - I'm done trying to figure out the musical differences or focus on all the intricacies and I'm just enjoying the hell outta my music. Love this thing


----------



## brianfromspace

SlothRock said:


> I have largely stopped responding in this thread because the Bliss has just taken over. Meaning - I'm done trying to figure out the musical differences or focus on all the intricacies and I'm just enjoying the hell outta my music. Love this thing


Thanks for sharing your findings all the way. Never curious how it will sound with May?


----------



## SlothRock

brianfromspace said:


> Thanks for sharing your findings all the way. Never curious how it will sound with May?


No problem - and always happy to answer any Q's folks have of course along the way . And actually, not really. Spring 3 is giving me everything I need. Would I upgrade to a Spring 4 when it's made? Or maybe a May 2 when that is out? Maybe!! But for now, I'm good until that day comes


----------



## Rayon

SlothRock said:


> I have largely stopped responding in this thread because the Bliss has just taken over. Meaning - I'm done trying to figure out the musical differences or focus on all the intricacies and I'm just enjoying the hell outta my music. Love this thing


Same. Will probably write a review at some point after the initial excitement and honeymoon (and burn-in). I used to be interested in Niimbus as well, but listening to Bliss is quite convincing experience. I at some point tried to capsulize the experience somehow, but the only word that I could come up with was "lol". I'm genuinely impressed.


----------



## Rhodey

I’ll be pairing mine with the Rockna Wavelight. Hoping for good synergy. I think it’ll be enjoyable.


----------



## XVampireX

ozziegurkan said:


> I just retired my Ferrum OOR from the headphone listening rack to the living room speaker rack and injected it into the pre-amp stream! It is rocking my powered speakers. They now have a new life as a premium bypassed RCA to XLR converter. Kinda happy about it. Bliss has taken the helm as the SS lord...


Or maybe just sell it altogether and get yourself some other new gear? >


----------



## curvz

Rayon said:


> Same. Will probably write a review at some point after the initial excitement and honeymoon (and burn-in). I used to be interested in Niimbus as well, but listening to Bliss is quite convincing experience. I at some point tried to capsulize the experience somehow, but the only word that I could come up with was "lol". I'm genuinely impressed.


I am actually thinking of replacing my US4+ with a Bliss. It will certainly make for a pretty stack, and it looks like the Bliss may be at least as good or better. It wins on features too I think, just a few more connections front and back, low and high z settings, though I think the Niimbus has very good and intuitive controls on the front.

Still not quite clear on how the Bliss sounds itself, but maybe I just missed a post here. I was hoping for it to be slightly warm, not too much, but that would be great for me.


----------



## M700LTR (Dec 15, 2022)

GoldenOne said:


> I've had this unit since before the OOR was officially released (I actually have 3 OOR units here currently XD). It has a lot of time on it
> As to power conditioners, IMO it really depends on the one you're using. A lot of cheaper ones tend to have a negative effect on amps, making things sound somewhat restricted.
> But the higher end stuff with current reservoirs provides either no change or a slight improvement. It really depends on whether your mains has any issues to begin with and what those issues are (some things can be addressed with a conditioner, some cannot and need a regenerator), and the device itself you're evaluating.
> I've run the OOR on a Niagara 5000, 1200, Furman SPR 16 Ei, directly to the wall and it's currently running on a PS Audio P20


Curious, why do you need 3 OORs? Do you have one each for a different system. 3 OORs = 3/4 the price of a Zahl HM1 lol...


----------



## Arniesb

curvz said:


> I am actually thinking of replacing my US4+ with a Bliss. It will certainly make for a pretty stack, and it looks like the Bliss may be at least as good or better. It wins on features too I think, just a few more connections front and back, low and high z settings, though I think the Niimbus has very good and intuitive controls on the front.
> 
> Still not quite clear on how the Bliss sounds itself, but maybe I just missed a post here. I was hoping for it to be slightly warm, not too much, but that would be great for me.


I heard Niimbus for couple of hours and was super impressed, dont know how Bliss can improve that...
Power supply can be improvement since Bliss have very good shield between power supply and circuitry, but other than that i doubt there could be improvements.
If you hear both in your setup pls report, since meet impressions are not very trustable.


----------



## sahmen

Arniesb said:


> I heard Niimbus for couple of hours and was super impressed, dont know how Bliss can improve that...
> Power supply can be improvement since Bliss have very good shield between power supply and circuitry, but other than that i doubt there could be improvements.
> If you hear both in your setup pls report, since meet impressions are not very trustable.


I'd also be interested in a Niimbus vs Bliss comparative evaluation, especially, but not exclusively regarding how they each drive the Susvara and/or the Abyss 1266 TC.  Full disclosure :  I am curious about the Bliss, but my Niimbus drives both the Sus and the TC satisfactorily well, without any downsides to my ears.

I'm however not beyond seriously considering a Bliss purchase depending on whether it comes with a significant performance delta, as compared to the Niimbus. Many thanks for any helpful input,


----------



## curvz

Arniesb said:


> I heard Niimbus for couple of hours and was super impressed, dont know how Bliss can improve that...
> Power supply can be improvement since Bliss have very good shield between power supply and circuitry, but other than that i doubt there could be improvements.
> If you hear both in your setup pls report, since meet impressions are not very trustable.


I will report, but may take a while. Was thinking if I can pick up a Bliss second hand, I may be able to sell either without much of a loss.

Niimbus is excellent though, so I am trying to be patient.


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 15, 2022)

curvz said:


> I will report, but may take a while. Was thinking if I can pick up a Bliss second hand, I may be able to sell either without much of a loss.
> 
> Niimbus is excellent though, so I am trying to be patient.


There probably won't be a lot of Bliss on the secondhand market anytime soon. Maybe some people who bought both it and HM1, and decided to keep only one of them.

Maybe asking your Holo dealer to put you in a list for used or buyers remorse or B-stock availability would be helpful too.


----------



## Nighthawk7397

incredulousity said:


> There probably won't be a lot of Bliss on the secondhand market anytime soon. Maybe some people who bought both it and HM1, and decided to keep only one of them.
> 
> Maybe asking your Holo dealer to put you in a list for used or buyers remorse or B-stock availability would be helpful too.


dam who would be stupid enough to order a bliss and an hm1......


----------



## ericx85

Definitely going to be a while before Bliss is on the used market unless someone out there really doesn't like it. I don't think the second set of orders has shipped yet.


----------



## brianfromspace

This KTE came in today, body work looks fine.


----------



## incredulousity

Nighthawk7397 said:


> dam who would be stupid enough to order a bliss and an hm1......


Reviewer types, who see a lot of flux of electronics through their offices.


----------



## auded33

Nighthawk7397 said:


> dam who would be stupid enough to order a bliss and an hm1......


Goldensound has both, then he probably gets a discount?


----------



## Chartreuse

auded33 said:


> Goldensound has both, then he probably gets a discount?


He wrote a sponsored review of it for headphones.com on 12/12 which is currently up. Implies it's better than the Bliss -- of course, headphones.com doesn't sell the Bliss. I'm sure he got a discount or some other consideration for posting a review of a product they have exclusivity on. 

Would be interested in seeing an independent comparison of the two, if that's possible. My hypothesis is that SQ is roughly similar between the two and the HM1 has the leg up on all the extra features (which I'm not sure I'd ever use, but which a review almost definitely would).


----------



## Nighthawk7397

incredulousity said:


> Reviewer types, who see a lot of flux of electronics through their offices.


i was just joking, i fell for the hype train again and have one coming haha


----------



## incredulousity

Nighthawk7397 said:


> i was just joking, i fell for the hype train again and have one coming haha


HM1 and Bliss?


----------



## Nighthawk7397

incredulousity said:


> HM1 and Bliss?


yup yup, hm1 is the 2023 batch though and i got the bliss earlier this week so i got plenty of time with it


----------



## JooLoo

anyone know if rca in does balanced out on 4 pin and pentacon or is it strictly unbalanced in unbalanced out 1/4 jack?


----------



## Nighthawk7397

JooLoo said:


> anyone know if rca in does balanced out on 4 pin and pentacon or is it strictly unbalanced in unbalanced out 1/4 jack?



you can use all the outputs regardless of what the input is


----------



## JooLoo

Nighthawk7397 said:


> you can use all the outputs regardless of what the input is


Appreciate it


----------



## M700LTR

auded33 said:


> Goldensound has both, then he probably gets a discount?


At this point, I'm sure he does get discounts. He has 3 OORs, that's 3/4 the price of a Zahl HM1. Some companies allow you to keep their units but impose no selling restrictions, right? Probably what happened. Goldensound previously was raving about the AHB2, the Serene being one of the best for Susvara etc. etc., and sold those off instead of 2 OORs lol. Anyway, I don't have a horse in the Zahl HM1 race, don't really care if he gets discounts. I'm set on my system components and will call it a day once my Bliss arrives.


----------



## auded33

M700LTR said:


> At this point, I'm sure he does get discounts. He has 3 OORs, that's 3/4 the price of a Zahl HM1. Some companies allow you to keep their units but impose no selling restrictions, right? Probably what happened. Goldensound previously was raving about the AHB2, the Serene being one of the best for Susvara etc. etc., and sold those off instead of 2 OORs lol. Anyway, I don't have a horse in the Zahl HM1 race, don't really care if he gets discounts. I'm set on my system components and will call it a day once my Bliss arrives.


----------



## auded33

The only issue around reviewer discounts is whether this influences (biases) reviews at all, as has already been said in this thread. Personally, Goldensound’s reviews led me to purchasing Holo Audio gear, decisions which I do not regret at all. I’m having second thoughts though about the Zahl HM1. There does seems to be a certain amount of euphoria around this hard to get amp just now. I’m seriously thinking about cancelling my HM1 order and reordering Bliss. Goldensound himself says that the HM1 is only ‘slightly’ better than the Bliss and my interpretation of ‘slightly’ is very subtle indeed.


----------



## Arniesb

auded33 said:


> The only issue around reviewer discounts is whether this influences (biases) reviews at all, as has already been said in this thread. Personally, Goldensound’s reviews led me to purchasing Holo Audio gear, decisions which I do not regret at all. I’m having second thoughts though about the Zahl HM1. There does seems to be a certain amount of euphoria around this hard to get amp just now. I’m seriously thinking about cancelling my HM1 order and reordering Bliss. Goldensound himself says that the HM1 is only ‘slightly’ better than the Bliss and my interpretation of ‘slightly’ is very subtle indeed.


Higher price, new toy syndrome all come in to place.
Holo products have very beefy, very low noise power supplies + top notch wollume solution.
How much different circuity will make it better i dont know? Higher price will certainly help to hype up the product.
Blind test wolume matched would be awesome to see.


----------



## Sound Eq

wonder if more input can be given bout bliss 

1- how it handles susvara, or would buying a tuve amp such as nirvana or envy be a better choice for susvara
2- is it a warm or neutral amp in comparison to which amp ?
3- would like to get a feedback how it compares to enleum
4- any violectric 590 comparisons


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 16, 2022)

Sound Eq said:


> wonder if more input can be given bout bliss
> 
> 1- how it handles susvara, or would buying a tuve amp such as nirvana or envy be a better choice for susvara
> 2- is it a warm or neutral amp in comparison to which amp ?
> ...


2. I would not call Bliss objectively very warm. It is warmer than GSX Mk2. It is less warm than GSX Mini. It is better in all parameters than either. Paired with May KTE.

Others can comment on the other points.


----------



## XVampireX

I would call it very slightly warm in reality, maybe Tube warm in some cases.
But mostly Neutral.


----------



## PcChip

So who's gonna be the first brave soul to test LCD-R on the Bliss?


----------



## ozziegurkan

For me, the Bliss showcases the sound of your DAC to its truest extent. As I have the Spring3 KTE attached to it, it provides the transparency it needs for it to shine. So, I would actually call Bliss uncolored. It really does showcase Sus and the DAC working together. I have compared the Bliss to my WA5 with Sus and the Bliss is a much more Solid State presentation than the Woo even though I set up my Woo to behave more like SS. The Sus is effortless with both amps but it’s so much more detailed and resolving with the Bliss. I might move the Bliss to see how it sounds with the Yggy LIM.


----------



## George Hincapie

ozziegurkan said:


> For me, the Bliss showcases the sound of your DAC to its truest extent. As I have the Spring3 KTE attached to it, it provides the transparency it needs for it to shine. So, I would actually call Bliss uncolored. It really does showcase Sus and the DAC working together. I have compared the Bliss to my WA5 with Sus and the Bliss is a much more Solid State presentation than the Woo even though I set up my Woo to behave more like SS. The Sus is effortless with both amps but it’s so much more detailed and resolving with the Bliss. I might move the Bliss to see how it sounds with the Yggy LIM.


Yes, please do. Let us know?


----------



## SteveM324

Is the Bliss KTE as a preamp as good as a Serene KTE?


----------



## OneEyedHito

SteveM324 said:


> Is the Bliss KTE as a preamp as good as a Serene KTE?


no


----------



## Rayon (Dec 17, 2022)

incredulousity said:


> There probably won't be a lot of Bliss on the secondhand market anytime soon.


The reason I bought new as well. I knew I really wanted it because of my experience with May and comments about Serene, but the situation in second hand market for Holo products has been like herd of wolfs fighting for one bone. I was quite confident that I would potentially need to wait for a long time. I was already so happy with Aries that I knew that my SS amp journey has pretty much reached it's end. I'm probably going to focus (again) on headphones and maybe tubes at some point. Luckily I don't have any room for tube amp anymore after Bliss, which gives my wallet some protection.


----------



## Evshrug

PcChip said:


> So who's gonna be the first brave soul to test LCD-R on the Bliss?


OH HEY Chip, good to see you


----------



## incredulousity

SteveM324 said:


> Is the Bliss KTE as a preamp as good as a Serene KTE?


I piped XLR out from Bliss to input in Envy, and compared to direct RCA in from May to Envy. Once volume matched, sounded identical. Probably a good test, as internal topology of Envy is SE. 

As a preamp to 2 channel, it sounds great for what I have, but my lowly Audioengine HD6 and audio hostile room layout limit the validity of my experience/opinion here.


----------



## GoldenOne

auded33 said:


> Goldensound has both, then he probably gets a discount?


I rarely get discounts on products, and if I ever receive a substantial discount or get a product for free I'll always declare this. I've always made efforts to be as transparent and unbiased as I can. Hence why I never use affiliate links or take manufacturer sponsorships etc even though these for many reviewers are the primary sources of income.

I paid full MSRP for both my Holo May and my Holo Serene. The Bliss is here on loan for the review. I'm not sure if I'll buy it or not, but if I do I will pay full MSRP.

With the HM1 I received a _small _industry insider discount that still puts it very close to MSRP. It’s a hand-made, boutique product made by one guy and because of that, there isn’t much wiggle room on pricing to begin with. (Prices are actually going up next year)

I heard the HM1 in person at Munich high end earlier this year and was immensely impressed. I placed my order shortly after and sold quite a bit of gear to help fund it. (Including my Serene and AHB2)


----------



## GoldenOne (Dec 19, 2022)

M700LTR said:


> At this point, I'm sure he does get discounts. He has 3 OORs, that's 3/4 the price of a Zahl HM1. Some companies allow you to keep their units but impose no selling restrictions, right? Probably what happened. Goldensound previously was raving about the AHB2, the Serene being one of the best for Susvara etc. etc., and sold those off instead of 2 OORs lol. Anyway, I don't have a horse in the Zahl HM1 race, don't really care if he gets discounts. I'm set on my system components and will call it a day once my Bliss arrives.


The OORs are not mine, I've not purchased them. I have a review in the works and after that's done they'll be heading back to Ferrum. (It's taken far longer than expected due to various disruptions this past year, luckily now resolved, but as a result I've hardly been able to get many videos out in recent months.)
I can't sell what isn't mine, hence I sold my AHB2/Serene instead.

The reason there are three here is because Ferrum sent me a unit prior to the release of the product to do some beta-testing. I found a couple minor issues with it, which they then rectified and sent a new revision over.
I found another small problem, and again they made a new revision and sent another unit, which was flawless and that's what is being shipped to customers and is what I'm reviewing. Hence there's three here at present. Makes sense to ship them all back at once rather than separately.

In terms of keeping review units, generally speaking most companies won't let you keep stuff unless it's not particularly high end.
For a $200 IEM or $400 DAC for example, it's usually not worth the company's time/money to pay for return shipping, refurbish it, then sell it at a lower price due to being open box. So for that type of stuff they usually just let you keep it.
Whilst some might immediately think 'well that's an obvious incentive for you to be nice to them/their product!'...trust me...I REALLY do not need more DACs/amps sitting on the shelf XD. Pretty sure @Currawong mentioned he has several drawers full of DAPs and stuff at this point.
I don't sell review units. If I'm allowed to keep something I'll keep it and if possible use it as a comparison/point of reference in future vids.

I feel that maybe giving stuff to friends free of charge might be ok as it's of no financial benefit to me and it's far better that it would get used and enjoyed by someone rather than just sitting on a shelf, but I'd be curious to hear other's thoughts on that.

But if it's anything more than $500 or so, the company usually wants it back. Sometimes that's immediately, sometimes they'll ask if it can just stay with you until they need to send it elsewhere.


----------



## tcode

Anyone had opportunity to listen and compare Bliss vs Burson GT?


----------



## Rayon (Dec 19, 2022)

So... how's the burn-in people? My own thoughts:

It's very obvious that the soundstage got better especially in y-axis
In the beginning Bliss sounded like a surface in x and z-axis, now it's just... right
Space seems like it was infinite

This is definitely a logarithmic function (first 10-20h gets better faster and then it slows down)

I think sound has gotten cleaner
I think I can see more into the music
It's like there is less in between me and music, more precense

Today I have had strange feelings that I haven't heard my Utopias quite the way I have heard them today
Had to come here to ask about other people's experiences as to me it feels like the sound quality made some kind of a jump today
However I've also had a flu and it got much better today so maybe it's just that my hearing got better 


New toy syndrome is getting easier
No more excitement, but very gratified and confidence is growing as I don't find any obvious flaws


----------



## XVampireX

For me the soundstage on the Utopia seems rather exactly as it was recorded and it's possible to hear quite far in the space and where everything is being located quite clearly to say the least.

I like the Dynamics, how all of the frequency ranges are in the front and balanced instead of playing around, a much more aggressive amplifier, in a good way.

I really love the amp, all the details that I wouldn't have guessed are in the recording because of what you people would call a "Black background"

Sometimes, even watching Youtube videos, even documentary videos, when there is a music in the background that is recorded properly it's like Earcandy/Eargasm/etc... 

I mean, it's obvious who won the fight between Volot and Bliss for me. But I'm definitely not saying Volot is bad, it's just that Bliss is that much better....


----------



## incredulousity (Dec 21, 2022)

It’s nice when I have to cool the tubes on Envy, that Bliss is not at all a step down, just a different flavor of great fun.

A solid state amp that gets equal love and use next to that high level tube amp is not something I previously thought possible.


----------



## chesebert

tcode said:


> Anyone had opportunity to listen and compare Bliss vs Burson GT?


I don't think you need to listen to conclude Bliss >>>> Burson by reason of fully discrete design with BJT output vs opamp/MOSFET. I personally wouldn't pay more than $500 for an opamp design....


----------



## rmsanger

XVampireX said:


> For me the soundstage on the Utopia seems rather exactly as it was recorded and it's possible to hear quite far in the space and where everything is being located quite clearly to say the least.
> 
> I like the Dynamics, how all of the frequency ranges are in the front and balanced instead of playing around, a much more aggressive amplifier, in a good way.
> 
> ...



Wow that is quite a statement!  So lets say you were starting out with neither and could get the Volot for $1900 used vs. Bliss KTE for $3500.  You still think the Bliss is worth the $ spent for step up in performance?  Or is the SQ spread pretty close?


----------



## brianfromspace (Dec 21, 2022)

If someone is interested in the Bliss KTE, I have one 1week like new for sale. PM me if you are interested.

Its sold


----------



## tcode

brianfromspace said:


> If someone is interested in the Bliss KTE, I have one 1week like new for sale. PM me if you are interested.


PM'd


----------



## XVampireX

rmsanger said:


> Wow that is quite a statement!  So lets say you were starting out with neither and could get the Volot for $1900 used vs. Bliss KTE for $3500.  You still think the Bliss is worth the $ spent for step up in performance?  Or is the SQ spread pretty close?


In a way it might be an Apples and Oranges comparison, I can't say for sure that it is the difference, for those who can push the budget it's probably worth it over the Volot.
But Volot is like SoundNews described it, a "Gentle Giant", I don't have the proper headphones to give Volot a fighting chance because it does prioritize high gain over low gain and Utopia's are very sensitive headphones already and might be one of the limiting factors for this comparison while Bliss does not have the high gain problem.


----------



## Chartreuse

chesebert said:


> I don't think you need to listen to conclude Bliss >>>> Burson by reason of fully discrete design with BJT output vs opamp/MOSFET. I personally wouldn't pay more than $500 for an opamp design....



I have both and honestly I think the Burson is a GREAT amplifier. I haven't done much side by side since I have new toy syndrome and am pretty much only listening to the Bliss, but I think the Burson is still one of the top amps out there to run a Susvara. My initial impressions are that the Bliss is a bit more transparent and detailed, but depending on how important $2500 vs. $3500 is to you, I don't think it's 40% better than the 3x GT. That's of course not how anything in this hobby works, but I certainly wouldn't dismiss the Burson!

The Burson is 10W of Class A and is dynamic as hell, and if your Susvaras sound thin or congested on something else it's a great solution. if they were the same price I'd buy the Bliss, but can't dismiss the value of a $1000 price difference. FWIW I prefer the Burson to the Ferrum as well, having auditioned both side by side before buying the GT in the first place.


----------



## George Hincapie

rmsanger said:


> Wow that is quite a statement!  So lets say you were starting out with neither and could get the Volot for $1900 used vs. Bliss KTE for $3500.  You still think the Bliss is worth the $ spent for step up in performance?  Or is the SQ spread pretty close?


The peace of mind of buying new and knowing the precise provenance, as well as obvious warranty advantages carry a hefty value IMHO. Don't overlook that.


----------



## PcChip

FYI, Tim (Kitsune) and Jeff (Holo) said that the Bliss does not support the LCD-R


----------



## Sound Eq

Chartreuse said:


> I have both and honestly I think the Burson is a GREAT amplifier. I haven't done much side by side since I have new toy syndrome and am pretty much only listening to the Bliss, but I think the Burson is still one of the top amps out there to run a Susvara. My initial impressions are that the Bliss is a bit more transparent and detailed, but depending on how important $2500 vs. $3500 is to you, I don't think it's 40% better than the 3x GT. That's of course not how anything in this hobby works, but I certainly wouldn't dismiss the Burson!
> 
> The Burson is 10W of Class A and is dynamic as hell, and if your Susvaras sound thin or congested on something else it's a great solution. if they were the same price I'd buy the Bliss, but can't dismiss the value of a $1000 price difference. FWIW I prefer the Burson to the Ferrum as well, having auditioned both side by side before buying the GT in the first place.


can i ask which has a more fuller sound with sus the bliss or burson, and which is more leaning on the musical side


----------



## ericx85

Bliss arrived today, just in time for the holidays. Have it on my desk now on some hudson hifi pegs someone had posted earlier for extra ventilation. Early impressions are that it sounds a bit better than my opamp upgraded soloist gt. Getting a big more resolution and stage. Expanse sounds fantastic, plan to try the Stealth on it later tonight. This is probably the best bass I've heard on an amp.


----------



## Rayon

Mmm... Just switched back to Bliss from Feliks Echo mk II (w/ JJ gold pins). It's so nice to have a nice tube amp to complement it. Switching back and forth every now and then makes me always appreciate the strengths of each amp. With JJ gold pins Echo has that romantic and hypnotic sound which "takes me there" and highlights individual sounds beautifully. Amazing with classical and jazz. Then after I'm tired to the intensity of Echo, switching back to Bliss and I fall into this realistic reference sound which is presented in a massive soundstage in a way that is relaxing without being flat.


----------



## Arniesb

Can anyone explain?

100VA DUAL O-type(not Toroid) FLATWIRE (NOT roundwire) 6N Copper custom hand made audio transformers. Only L2.     Cant see L2 version anywhere? Just standard/level1 or KTE editions.


----------



## Rayon

Arniesb said:


> Only L2. Cant see L2 version anywhere? Just standard/level1 or KTE editions.


Bliss KTE = Bliss L2. KTE is always the highest level and for example Holo May has L1-L3 of which L3 is KTE. Bliss has only two levels.


----------



## Arniesb

Rayon said:


> Bliss KTE = Bliss L2. KTE is always the highest level and for example Holo May has L1-L3 of which L3 is KTE. Bliss has only two levels.


I see. Must be translation issue on magnahifi cause certain upgrades mentioned l2 and kte... Why even mention l2 and kte on different occasions when there is only 2 versions! 
Really weird.


----------



## Rayon

Arniesb said:


> I see. Must be translation issue on magnahifi cause certain upgrades mentioned l2 and kte... Why even mention l2 and kte on different occasions when there is only 2 versions!
> Really weird.


The whole marketing of Holo is a big joke. They don't even have a proper wiki page, but a Facebook page. This reminds me of this old joke about Korn: "They have been so busy doing good music that they forgot to look good."


----------



## M700LTR

Rayon said:


> The whole marketing of Holo is a big joke. They don't even have a proper wiki page, but a Facebook page. This reminds me of this old joke about Korn: "They have been so busy doing good music that they forgot to look good."


Yup, not the biggest fan of their naming conventions. Just make base model + best model. Curious, do people even buy the "base models", May L1, Spring 3 L1? Just a brief headcount on Headfi, seems like KTE > Level 2 > Level 1 in terms of popularity.


----------



## Arniesb

M700LTR said:


> Yup, not the biggest fan of their naming conventions. Just make base model + best model. Curious, do people even buy the "base models", May L1, Spring 3 L1? Just a brief headcount on Headfi, seems like KTE > Level 2 > Level 1 in terms of popularity.


Spot on. I see Bliss lvl1 in stock on Magnahifi and with discount! While KTE model is not in stock.


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## drc73rp

M700LTR said:


> Yup, not the biggest fan of their naming conventions. Just make base model + best model. Curious, do people even buy the "base models", May L1, Spring 3 L1? Just a brief headcount on Headfi, seems like KTE > Level 2 > Level 1 in terms of popularity.


I would actually consider the base model if decide to get this. I wouldn't mind regular copper wiring (as it's all board mounted anyway), regular toroidal tranny (which is very good compared to other types), regular fuse which I can upgrade later. I'd like to know what regular caps are beings used vs the Audio Note Kasei, plus the Mundorf and special Holo caps are in the regular version anyway.


----------



## Rayon (Dec 24, 2022)

Btw have you noticed a warm-up time with Bliss? I know it's recommended for Pass HPA-1 (and tubes of course, but that's a different story IMO). It may be brain adjustment or something, but I've noticed several times that music starts to sound better at some point and when I watch the clock, it's usually at 1h mark. I can't pinpoint it properly, but I think I'm talking some kind of fullness and liquidity, maybe separation. It's easier to focus on music. Can't remember having such experiences before with SS, but I also haven't had other Class-A amps than Singxer SA-1. Right now if I was to make recommendations regarding to critical listening, I would suggest to let it run for 1h before testing.

Datapoints from other listeners appreciated. Scientific explanation humbly appreciated.


----------



## HC1205

How is treble on bliss? Im a bit sensitive on treble either too much energy or peaks and i know oor ferrum doesnt have any problem with this


----------



## brianfromspace

Rayon said:


> Btw have you noticed a warm-up time with Bliss? I know it's recommended for Pass HPA-1 (and tubes of course, but that's a different story IMO). It may be brain adjustment or something, but I've noticed several times that music starts to sound better at some point and when I watch the clock, it's usually at 1h mark. I can't pinpoint it properly, but I think I'm talking some kind of fullness and liquidity, maybe separation. It's easier to focus on music. Can't remember having such experiences before with SS, but I also haven't had other Class-A amps than Singxer SA-1. Right now if I was to make recommendations regarding to critical listening, I would suggest to let it run for 1h before testing.
> 
> Datapoints from other listeners appreciated. Scientific explanation humbly appreciated.


I have exaxtly the same on Formula S


----------



## brianfromspace

HC1205 said:


> How is treble on bliss? Im a bit sensitive on treble either too much energy or peaks and i know oor ferrum doesnt have any problem with this


Haven’t heard anythin harsch and I fed it with a 9038 dac some if the time


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## JooLoo (Dec 24, 2022)

Kind of an out there idea but I was entertainging the idea of making a custom half shell case for the bliss to add heat sinks to the side and overall thermal mass without modifying the chassis and ****ing my warranty would anyone be interested in seeing this in future? Any critisisms or ideas im open to hear. 

I also just aesthetically like a mean side black heat sink like on the schiit stuff or the xiaudio formula S


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## ericx85

I honestly dont think the Bliss really gets that hot? Its definitely less hot than the Soloist was in my opinion.


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## JooLoo

ericx85 said:


> I honestly dont think the Bliss really gets that hot? Its definitely less hot than the Soloist was in my opinion.


Ahh I havent revieved mine yet and was under the impression it ran hot. Im also just a sucker for the appearance of heatsinks so I might just do it for that if thats the case.


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## XVampireX

HC1205 said:


> How is treble on bliss? Im a bit sensitive on treble either too much energy or peaks and i know oor ferrum doesnt have any problem with this



I would say the Treble is very much extended, if the track has a problem with treble, it will show.
Otherwise it's great for Treble, shimmering and beautiful.


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## HC1205

XVampireX said:


> I would say the Treble is very much extended, if the track has a problem with treble, it will show.
> Otherwise it's great for Treble, shimmering and beautiful.


Thank you. I listen to some japanese, kpop songs that are somtimes piercing treble and i know i should blame the recording not the amp/dac


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## brianfromspace

Mine also didnt get that hot, only the bottom. So DAC on top would not be a problem if you ask me. Not advised though.


----------



## CSX142857

Been having lots of fun with the Susvara and Utopia on the Bliss. I'm coming from a Topping A90. Sound is generally more lively and fast compared to the A90. However, I don't really have a high impedance headphone to try out outside of a HD600. It might be the Christmas Eve wine but I don't really sense any difference between Lo-Z and Hi-Z. Guess that means it's best to leave it in Lo-Z mode.


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## ericx85

Still getting a grip of the Expanse/Stealth with the Bliss. This amp is ridiculously good at separation. Even in congested music, videos, games etc I can hear specific things so well compared to even the soloist gt where the same little nuances are buried in everything going on.


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## mortcola (Dec 25, 2022)

I have the Bliss for three days now. I had a Burson GT Soloist for a while recently, and while it was strong and clear, it felt aggressive, brash, with a bit of assertive sameness among several distinct recordings. I make no claim that you will hear it the same way. It must be popular for good reasons. I don't have a history of turning up my nose at hi-fi gear - That amp was one of the few obviously high-quality pieces of gear I've ever just given back, ultimately, saying, no thanks. And then the long-rumored, possibly-an-urban-messianic-legend Bliss arrived.

I'm using Roon on an M1 iMac, with Qobuz streaming and hard-drive-sourced files, cd through highest res DXD and DSD, Holo May KTE connected to the Bliss KTE by Audioquest Fire ICs, AQ Niagara power conditioners, AQ NRG and Cullen power cables. The Susvara, 3.5mm connector, is being fed by a beautiful new Double Helix Chimera cable. Although the Bliss, I'm told, is electrically optimized and musically voiced for the Susvara, I'm comparing its performance through the latter with its handling of Dan Clark Expanse with their own Vivo cable and a Prion4 borrowed gratefully from Peter B. at Double Helix Cables; The Utopia 2022 with stock and Arctic Ingens cables,; Grado GS3000x with Grado cable; and Abyss 1266TC with the upgraded and dedicated JPS cables. I'm only using balanced 4-pin XLR connections.

The Susvara is clearly in its natural habitat here, optimized and idyllic. The Abyss responds to Bliss-juice as though it has found fulfillment. Something not quite frequency-range dependent is happening here, in that, on recording after recording, the characteristic deep bass control, holy mother of slam factor, and electron microscope level of  clarity is evident.... but now the midrange and the whole harmonic envelope of acoustic instruments and voices is more fleshed out, almost devoid of the hardness these industrial-cyberpunk Uber-cans can bring. Whereas the Woo WA5-LE, a refined and powerful 300B SET tube amp well matched to the Abyss and good for the Susvara, can bring its 2nd-harmonic rich but still transparent virtues to the Big Abyss, it can still feel a little brash in the upper-mids/lower treble. The Bliss produced nothing but nourishment through the 1266TC. preternaturally detailed, yet with just enough subcutaneous fat to be healthy. There is no sense at all of euphony or tube bloat; to the contrary, the music is highly objective in the information it consists of, and yet the amp seems to offer ideal support for the unique needs of each headphone, across their dynamic and frequency ranges. Zhu states, in the manual, that the way he uses multiple paired transistors brings all the advantages of both solid state and tubes. Without any so-called tubey characteristics, there is also nothing characteristic of solid-state, except with respect to sheer clarity. Such simplistic binaries are far transcended at this level, with this design. It is providing the diet each headphone thrives on. Two hours of jazz, hard and progressive rock, and chamber music, and I have no listening fatigue through the Abyss.

The Expanse retains its deeply detailed, spatially expansive and harmonically refined qualities. The Utopia '22 is the least minutely revealing headphone in my current roster, though this is not a deficit; it is relative to three other cans known for end-game resolution and one, the Grado, which at 28 - 50% the cost of the others, may lack the surreal spatial verisimilitudes and end-game timbal and dynamic refinement of the others, but is both stunningly good in absolute terms, and actually conveys small details at near-Susvara levels.  The Utopia has a fully-fleshed, communicative and impactful qualitymmediately impressive as being intricately transparent, offering a fleshed-out sense of space way beyond my head and the limits of the Susvara. I've never heard that so consistently or clearly. Lyrics are more intelligible, complex arrangements have a great sense of wholeness with all the clarity to allow the attention to drift along with and away from individual voices. It's beautifully voiced, if it's OK to say that, in that along with the Susvara-ready power,  the amp has remarkable timbral clarity and glow, depth and dimension, with textured and fast transients. And I'm just getting the feel for it. It is a special amp, just warming up.

Jeff Zhu at Holo not only has a clear sense of what reproduced music should sound like, but his innovative designs manage to channel that aesthetic sense into extremely authentic/organic-sounding, impactful and nuanced, user-friendly electronic devices which somehow look cool (2001-monolith-black with copper sides and accents and a Kitsune fox emblem) and also measure extraordinarily well... and I am firmly in the my-multi-million-year-ear/brain/gut knows far more than your puny 21-st century measurements will ever measure. But this stuff is accurate as can be, and tastes great. And Bliss is clearly a consistent, masterful engineering expression of the same musical vision as is the May DAC. If it serves a wide range of headphones this well, with such ergonomic ease, while bringing out the very best in the Susvara (folks like to assign percentage-of-potential an amp achieves with the Susvara - I'll call this 98.6%, to indicate a sign of optimal health, with room for diminishing returns from some gizmo advances by future humans.

I know there's more expensive and possibly "better" gear out there for a system like this. But while I know what the far end of hi-fi consists of, what it can cost, and the refinement and caché which contribute to the listening experience. But, beyond some optimizing of the source setup - using, say, a Roon Nucleus for SS-data control, some improvements in streaming - I'll say that there's not much further to meaningfully go in the headphone-audio quest. "Better" than this? A dedicated digital data and control source and electrical system... that'd be nice. There's always new flavors and hues to be found in high-end gear, and there's stuff I still like to stare at.  Bacon. Mola Mola. These would be fun to have around. They're fun to say.  Beyond that, spend all the plutocratic audio bucks you wish. Your diminishing returns are yours to enjoy as you wish. I just don't think "better" means anything at this point. The Bliss has been worth the wait. It is phenomenally good (this after a few days), it is at home, in ideal company with its sister DAC. And while it ain't cheap, the Holo gear are "are you sh-tt-n'me?" reasonable for endgame gear which seems to inspire data streams and head-speakers to be be their best selves.


----------



## incredulousity

mortcola said:


> I have the Bliss for three days now. I had a Burson GT Soloist for a while recently, and while it was strong and clear, it felt aggressive, brash, with a bit of assertive sameness among several distinct recordings. I make no claim that you will hear it the same way. It must be popular for good reasons. I don't have a history of turning up my nose at hi-fi gear - That amp was one of the few obviously high-quality pieces of gear I've ever just given back, ultimately, saying, no thanks. And then the long-rumored, possibly-an-urban-messianic-legend Bliss arrived.
> 
> I'm using Roon on an M1 iMac, with Qobuz streaming and hard-drive-sourced files, cd through highest res DXD and DSD, Holo May KTE connected to the Bliss KTE by Audioquest Fire ICs, AQ Niagara power conditioners, AQ NRG and Cullen power cables. The Susvara, 3.5mm connector, is being fed by a beautiful new Double Helix Chimera cable. Although the Bliss, I'm told, is electrically optimized and musically voiced for the Susvara, I'm comparing its performance through the latter with its handling of Dan Clark Expanse with their own Vivo cable and a Prion4 borrowed gratefully from Peter B. at Double Helix Cables; The Utopia 2022 with stock and Arctic Ingens cables,; Grado GS3000x with Grado cable; and Abyss 1266TC with the upgraded and dedicated JPS cables. I'm only using balanced 4-pin XLR connections.
> 
> ...


Probably the best articulation of how and why Bliss is great, that I have seen thus far. I have the same stack, and my experience is identical, albeit with Elite and HD800S and VO. Looks like I need Expanse! All you need is Envy, and you can stop


----------



## orrm

I'm worried the Bliss with Prion4 interconnects and headphones cable to the Susvara would result in piercing highs or simply too much of a good thing listening experience. Was hoping it would be a little less neutral and more Holo house sound which from what I'm reading is not the case so much.

Any thoughts from owners on this?


----------



## incredulousity

orrm said:


> I'm worried the Bliss with Prion4 interconnects and headphones cable to the Susvara would result in piercing highs or simply too much of a good thing listening experience. Was hoping it would be a little less neutral and more Holo house sound which from what I'm reading is not the case so much.
> 
> Any thoughts from owners on this?


I don’t think this would be an issue with Prion 4 cables, but I’d be concerned about low end SPC cables.


----------



## AlbertoPN

OneEyedHito said:


> no


According to this statement, and since from the manual is not clear to me, is it possible to set the XLR output of the Bliss in fixed level, in order to use it as a "balanced hub" for the 2 inputs, and send the output to a Serene or another pre-amplifier ? In this way the volume knob should affect only the headphones out ?
Or maybe am I complicated the hot wather, and the Bliss must be chained as last ring on the second output of a pre-amplifier (in this case not the Serene since it got basically only 1 XLR out) ?


----------



## PcChip

AlbertoPN said:


> According to this statement, and since from the manual is not clear to me, is it possible to set the XLR output of the Bliss in fixed level, in order to use it as a "balanced hub" for the 2 inputs, and send the output to a Serene or another pre-amplifier ? In this way the volume knob should affect only the headphones out ?
> Or maybe am I complicated the hot wather, and the Bliss must be chained as last ring on the second output of a pre-amplifier (in this case not the Serene since it got basically only 1 XLR out) ?


I would lose sleep over sending the signal through an active device like that, even if that device was a Holo Bliss or Holo Serene (and I own and love both)  

If you want to do that, I would buy a goldpoint xlr switcher (SW2X-I or SW2X-O, do note the difference) and be done with it


----------



## AlbertoPN

Thanks for your answer.
So, as fai as I understand, you use the Bliss as pure headphones amplifier, as last ring of the audio chain. But since you own both, have you tried to compare the Bliss with the Serene on the preamplifier section, just for curiosity, and to understand if there are audible differences between the two devices ?


----------



## OneEyedHito

AlbertoPN said:


> Thanks for your answer.
> So, as fai as I understand, you use the Bliss as pure headphones amplifier, as last ring of the audio chain. But since you own both, have you tried to compare the Bliss with the Serene on the preamplifier section, just for curiosity, and to understand if there are audible differences between the two devices ?


The Bliss is ½ to ¾ the Pre that Serene is, and this is from a Trusted Owner of both devices (the Owner of Kitsune).  It is still a GREAT Pre at those numbers and his comments are as both a HP Pre and a 2.0 Channel Pre.


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## AlbertoPN (Dec 28, 2022)

Thank you.
At this point in time the "problem" (if we can call it this way) is the Serene got 1 XLR output, so if you'd like to feed an external amplifier as well as the Bliss for the headphones, you are forced to use a XRL switcher as suggested before. It's not the end of the world, but just because as enthusiast we are a bit "perverse" if you allow me to say so, with the Bliss product release I'd prefear Holo Audio to release a "Serene V.2" as pure pre-amplifier without headphones driving capability.
Do someone knows if this is the Holo Audio plan for the near future ?


----------



## OneEyedHito

AlbertoPN said:


> Thank you.
> At this point in time the "problem" (if we can call it this way) is the Serene got 1 XLR output, so if you'd like to feed an external amplifier as well as the Bliss for the headphones, you are forced to use a XRL switcher as suggested before. It's not the end of the world, but just because as enthusiast we are a bit "perverse" if you allow me to say so, with the Bliss product release I'd prefear Holo Audio to release a "Serene V.2" as pure pre-amplifier without headphones driving capability.
> Do someone knows if this is the Holo Audio plan for the near future ?


The Serene has the "capability" to drive headphones through a special XLR to 4-Pin cable but it is not a feature and the ability to do that shouldn't change the use case as I see it but I am blind in one eye.


----------



## AlbertoPN

Yes, I know that the Serene can also drive headphones via one of the 2 XRL balanced output set, so basically it means that as "pure preamplifier" the Serene got "only" 1 balanced output. This is why I hope that now Bliss is on the market, and its specific for headphones driving, Holo Audio may release a new pure preamplifer with the capability and audio quality of the Serene but with 2 balanced output and no headphones out.


----------



## OneEyedHito (Dec 28, 2022)

AlbertoPN said:


> Yes, I know that the Serene can also drive headphones via one of the 2 XRL balanced output set, so basically it means that as "pure preamplifier" the Serene got "only" 1 balanced output. This is why I hope that now Bliss is on the market, and its specific for headphones driving, Holo Audio may release a new pure preamplifer with the capability and audio quality of the Serene but with 2 balanced output and no headphones out.


I may be misunderstanding you still but the only difference in the 2 sets of 4-pin XLR outputs on the Serene is that one has an output impedance of 3ohms and the other 40ohms, they both are 17Vrms output power.  Is that an issue for your needs?

Again the Serene doesn't have a headphone output exclusively but it has 2 sets of 4-Pin XLR outputs in which the lower O Impedance one can be used to drive some power hungry headphones well.


----------



## AlbertoPN

Obviously I'm the one that is misunderstanding the situation here at this point in time, and I apologize for this.
Reading the specs and watching the video reviews of the Serene I uderstood that only 1 XRL output was usable as "pure preamplifier" and the second one was used to drive most of the headphones out on the market (with some exception, of course).
That was my main concern.

If instead the two outputs are both usable as pre outs, "my problem" is not longer present.

Please give me one last advice: which one of the two XRL out would you use to connect an external amplifier and which one to connect the Bliss ?


----------



## auded33

AlbertoPN said:


> Obviously I'm the one that is misunderstanding the situation here at this point in time, and I apologize for this.
> Reading the specs and watching the video reviews of the Serene I uderstood that only 1 XRL output was usable as "pure preamplifier" and the second one was used to drive most of the headphones out on the market (with some exception, of course).
> That was my main concern.
> 
> ...


Not sure why you would want to drive the Bliss from the Serene. Whatever your source is, e.g. DAC, should feed both Serene and Bliss directly. This might mean using XLR out and RCA out on DAC or use XLR switcher on output of DAC. This will give you best sound quality.


----------



## AlbertoPN

I apologize again if I'm not being clear.
This is the audio chain in my idea for my desktop setup:
1) Holo May (with sources connected) XLR out ==> Holo Serene XLR in
2) Holo Serene XLR Out 1 ==> Active Speakers/Amplifier ==> Speakers
2) Holo Serene XLR Out 2 ==> Holo Bliss XLR in
3) Holo Bliss ==> Headphones
Does it make sense ?


----------



## orrm (Dec 28, 2022)

AlbertoPN said:


> I apologize again if I'm not being clear.
> This is the audio chain in my idea for my desktop setup:
> 1) Holo May (with sources connected) XLR out ==> Holo Serene XLR in
> 2) Holo Serene XLR Out 1 ==> Active Speakers/Amplifier ==> Speakers
> ...


Yes and you can do that. You can also plug the May directly to the Bliss with RCA and skip the Serene but your plan is solid and should work afaik.

You can also sell the Serene and just use the preamp capabilities on the Bliss to drive speakers. That's probably the simplest and most cost effective option.


----------



## AlbertoPN

orrm said:


> That's probably the simplest and most cost effective option.


Thanks a lot


----------



## auded33

AlbertoPN said:


> I apologize again if I'm not being clear.
> This is the audio chain in my idea for my desktop setup:
> 1) Holo May (with sources connected) XLR out ==> Holo Serene XLR in
> 2) Holo Serene XLR Out 1 ==> Active Speakers/Amplifier ==> Speakers
> ...


Sure, that will work but it’s not how I would do it. I would connect May to Bliss via RCA. Doing your suggested way adds an extra component in the chain for Bliss and an additional volume control. Keep it simple is the best way with fewer links in the chain.


----------



## AlbertoPN

auded33 said:


> Keep it simple is the best way with fewer links in the chain.


This was my biggest concern with basically a couple of pre-amps in the chain.
According to this, I guess that the best way for me now is to replace the Serene with a Bliss and try to find a temporary peace of mind 
If it works really 50 to 75% of the Serene as audio quality, we are talking about a great preamplifier, so I should not regret this choice.


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## OneEyedHito (Dec 28, 2022)

AlbertoPN said:


> Obviously I'm the one that is misunderstanding the situation here at this point in time, and I apologize for this.
> Reading the specs and watching the video reviews of the Serene I uderstood that only 1 XRL output was usable as "pure preamplifier" and the second one was used to drive most of the headphones out on the market (with some exception, of course).
> That was my main concern.
> 
> ...


I would use both XLR outputs connected with one to a set of powered monitors, and one to the Bliss (Bliss volume at 85%) in your situation and see how it sounds, I’d flip the set of xlr cables (not the individual left/right cables but the sets) and try it again and see if I heard a difference and if I preferred one over the other.

Now for me and my setup which is Dynaudio Monitors (May DAC) and then a multitude of headphones all the time, I would do as others have suggested and  just use the Bliss as my pre/hp amp with the Dynaudio being connected via the XLR outs. If I was connecting a power amplifier to a high end set of Focal or Zu Speakers (or something of the like) then I might keep the Serene as a pre but in my near field setup I would hope to be content with the Bliss pulling double duty as it was designed for.


----------



## AlbertoPN

Thanks for your advices


----------



## zelkop (Dec 28, 2022)

AlbertoPN said:


> Thanks for your advices





auded33 said:


> Sure, that will work but it’s not how I would do it. I would connect May to Bliss via RCA. Doing your suggested way adds an extra component in the chain for Bliss and an additional volume control. Keep it simple is the best way with fewer links in the chain.


Let me summarize my experience. I have May (L2) and Serene (KTE) connected via Cardas Golden Reference XLR cable 1m long. My headphone amp is Violectric V550 Pro and I experimented connecting it to Serene's XLR1 or XLR2 outs, and also directly to May's RCA out, always using the same type (Golden Reference) and length (1m) of Cardas interconnects, of course with the appropriate termination (XLR, RCA). I didn't use any converters or splitters.

After practicing some volume matching and following the repeated listening sessions, I found out that Serene's XLR 1 or XLR2 outs provide slightly (just slightly) more resolving and pleasing/fuller sound as compared to May's RCA out. I could also easily live with May's RCA out as those differences were not big, but they were detectable. This is in my setup, using Cardas interconnects and Violetric V550 Pro headphone amp and Meze Empyrean headphones for listening.

So, I ended up connecting my headphone amp to Serene's XLR1 (by the way, the user manual says: XLR1 is for headphone amplifier) and my desktop power amp with desktop speakers to Serene's XLR2. Of course, other setups may give a different outcome. What I want to say, fewer links is definitely preferred in theory, but it is always good to try and listen with your own ears. This was exactly the advice from Wildism Audio in Hong Kong when I asked them to recommend the preferred connection, before experimenting. Somehow, in my setup, the Serene preamplifier added a nice taste to the overall sound quality, and I am not sure why. Hope this helps.


----------



## AlbertoPN

zelkop said:


> Hope this helps.


It helps a lot, many thanks also to you.


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## FooFighter (Dec 28, 2022)

After that discussion went so long I want to put a general question here: are preamps technically a relict from record player times where the signal from the source device was too weak for the power amp, so are these nowadays with modern DACs only needed to shape the signal according to ones own taste (e.g putting a tube preamp inside of the chain?) or is there any other benefit (besides exotic use cases like the power amp not having a volume control and you need to control that with a preamp)


----------



## OneEyedHito

FooFighter said:


> After that discussion went so long I want to put a general question here: are preamps technically a relict from record player times where the signal from the source device was too weak for the power amp, so are these nowadays with modern DACs only needed to shape the signal according to ones own taste (e.g putting a tube preamp inside of the chain?) or is there any other benefit (besides exotic use cases like the power amp not having a volume control and you need to control that with a preamp)


It is not exotic to have a power amp without volume control.  That is primary use case for a PREamplifier though and still a necessity in MOST high end 2 channel setups.


----------



## FooFighter

OneEyedHito said:


> It is not exotic to have a power amp without volume control.  That is primary use case for a PREamplifier though and still a necessity in MOST high end 2 channel setups.


OK, so let's say exotic in the headphone world besides running planars over speaker TAPs of those 2 channel monsters


----------



## auded33

FooFighter said:


> After that discussion went so long I want to put a general question here: are preamps technically a relict from record player times where the signal from the source device was too weak for the power amp, so are these nowadays with modern DACs only needed to shape the signal according to ones own taste (e.g putting a tube preamp inside of the chain?) or is there any other benefit (besides exotic use cases like the power amp not having a volume control and you need to control that with a preamp)


Is this not off-topic? Let's get back to Holo Audio Bliss.
But.. in answer your question, pre-amps still have a useful function, not least with respect to providing low noise volume control. Depends on the DAC. Some DAC's have fixed volume output whilst others allow volume adjustment. General principal is to set DAC to fixed output and use pre for volume control. That said, it's no longer necessary to have a ton of inputs on pre-amps now as typically most people will just have DAC input and possibly Vinyl input. The days when we needed inputs for tape recorders and radio also are long gone.


----------



## FooFighter

auded33 said:


> Is this not off-topic? Let's get back to Holo Audio Bliss.
> But.. in answer your question, pre-amps still have a useful function, not least with respect to providing low noise volume control. Depends on the DAC. Some DAC's have fixed volume output whilst others allow volume adjustment. General principal is to set DAC to fixed output and use pre for volume control. That said, it's no longer necessary to have a ton of inputs on pre-amps now as typically most people will just have DAC input and possibly Vinyl input. The days when we needed inputs for tape recorders and radio also are long gone.


Don't want to stress that topic too far but I was questioning the general sense of preamps in times of headphone amps with volume control.


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## auded33

FooFighter said:


> Don't want to stress that topic too far but I was questioning the general sense of preamps in times of headphone amps with volume control.


Yes, good headphone amps with pre function are usurping the good old fashoined pre-amp.


----------



## mfgillia

FooFighter said:


> After that discussion went so long I want to put a general question here: are preamps technically a relict from record player times where the signal from the source device was too weak for the power amp, so are these nowadays with modern DACs only needed to shape the signal according to ones own taste (e.g putting a tube preamp inside of the chain?) or is there any other benefit (besides exotic use cases like the power amp not having a volume control and you need to control that with a preamp)


For ss amps like Bliss tend to think active preamps are probably of minimal value. For tube amps though more than a few seem to prefer using them to increase the voltage going into the amp believing the overall sound quality may improve in some situations and setups.


----------



## zelkop (Dec 29, 2022)

FooFighter said:


> Don't want to stress that topic too far but I was questioning the general sense of preamps in times of headphone amps with volume control.



I would agree that a good headphone amp with a good volume control (like Bliss) would not require a preamp for headphones listening. Why complicate the desktop setup when it fully works? Good modern headphone amplifiers are designed to provide preamp duties for headphones listening.

It gets more complicated when you want to add speakers. In my case, since I also have a desktop power amp without the volume control feeding a reasonably capable pair of desktop speakers (Sonus Faber Minima Amator II), the Serene currently fulfills the preamp duties and May dac is the source. I tried removing the Serene and using the Violectric line-outs to feed the power amp for speakers (not dissimilar to Bliss) and it showed that a dedicated line-level preamp (Serene) performed better than my headphone amp with volume control (Violectric V550 Pro). So I decided to keep the Serene even if the headphone amp would provide the required functionality. I am sure, if I search hard enough and invest more, there is a high quality headphone amp with volume control out there that would eventually eliminate the Serene.

Someone mentioned that Bliss provides roughly 75% of preamp quality as compared to Serene and it is probably not far from reality, and it may be all the preamp that most people need, if you are not very picky. I am looking forward to future reports from the people who have both.

In my main speaker setup, with McIntosh power amps feeding Sonus Faber Stradivari speakers, it is even more obvious that my dedicated line level preamplifier (Balance Audio Technology) is desirable if I want to squeeze out the best sound. I currently have only a digital source with fixed volume (Rockna Wavedream dac) attached to this preamplifier. After few tries, I did not succeed to replace the preamp and dac with one-box dac/digital preamp with integrated volume control. I figured out that really big investment would be needed to match the sound quality. Prospects may improve as new models appear.


----------



## chesebert (Dec 29, 2022)

Noone needs preamplifier for headphone use. The modern source can easily output enough voltage into the amp to blow out your headphone driver. Also, modern sources don't have issue driving 50kohm inputs on most modern headphone amps. Don't listen to stupid advice and waste your money. If a headphone amp is well designed it should be able to double as a preamp for your power amp.


----------



## paradoxper

chesebert said:


> Noone needs preamplifier for headphone use. The modern source can easily output enough voltage into the amp to blow out your headphone driver. Also, modern sources don't have issue driving 50kohm inputs on most modern headphone amps. Don't listen to stupid advice and waste your money. If a headphone amp is well designed it should be able to double as a preamp for your power amp.


Patently false. Everyone needs a 300B pre. It is just a fact of life.


----------



## AlbertoPN

paradoxper said:


> Everyone needs a 300B pre. It is just a fact of life.


----------



## zelkop (Dec 29, 2022)

chesebert said:


> Noone needs preamplifier for headphone use. The modern source can easily output enough voltage into the amp to blow out your headphone driver. Also, modern sources don't have issue driving 50kohm inputs on most modern headphone amps. Don't listen to stupid advice and waste your money. If a headphone amp is well designed it should be able to double as a preamp for your power amp.



Everyone knows that more expensive is always better


----------



## auded33

zelkop said:


> I would agree that a good headphone amp with a good volume control (like Bliss) would not require a preamp for headphones listening. Why complicate the desktop setup when it fully works? Good modern headphone amplifiers are designed to provide preamp duties for headphones listening.
> 
> It gets more complicated when you want to add speakers. In my case, since I also have a desktop power amp without the volume control feeding a reasonably capable pair of desktop speakers (Sonus Faber Minima Amator II), the Serene currently fulfills the preamp duties and May dac is the source. I tried removing the Serene and using the Violectric line-outs to feed the power amp for speakers (not dissimilar to Bliss) and it showed that a dedicated line-level preamp (Serene) performed better than my headphone amp with volume control (Violectric V550 Pro). So I decided to keep the Serene even if the headphone amp would provide the required functionality. I am sure, if I search hard enough and invest more, there is a high quality headphone amp with volume control out there that would eventually eliminate the Serene.
> 
> ...


If you get a chance, try listening to your headphones via the Serene XLR1 out. You might find it sounds better than your Violectric amp. I was amazed to find that the Serene bettered my Benchmark HPA4 and Ferrum stack and by a noticeable margin.


----------



## zelkop

auded33 said:


> If you get a chance, try listening to your headphones via the Serene XLR1 out. You might find it sounds better than your Violectric amp. I was amazed to find that the Serene bettered my Benchmark HPA4 and Ferrum stack and by a noticeable margin.



Thank you for the suggestion, will try! It looks like I will need to order a special headphone cable or at least an adapter, please let me know of any recommendations.


----------



## OneEyedHito

zelkop said:


> Thank you for the suggestion, will try! It looks like I will need to order a special headphone cable or at least an adapter, please let me know of any recommendations.


Trevor at Norne Audio makes one for it that I can highly recommend.  You need a 3-Pin XLR to 4-Pin XLR adapter.

Norne Audio Adapters Page


----------



## auded33

zelkop said:


> Thank you for the suggestion, will try! It looks like I will need to order a special headphone cable or at least an adapter, please let me know of any recommendations.


Don't have any recommendations, sorry. I made my own cable. I suspect that the excellent quality of Serene headphone drive via XLR1 is a little secret still. Sure, most folk know that it's possible for the Serene to drive headphones but have they actually tried it? I know GoldenOne thinks very highly of the Serene in this regard. I have a Bliss on order and it will fascinating to pitch the Serene against Bliss driving my LCD-5 phones.


----------



## zelkop

OneEyedHito said:


> Trevor at Norne Audio makes one for it that I can highly recommend.  You need a 3-Pin XLR to 4-Pin XLR adapter.
> 
> Norne Audio Adapters Page


Thank you!


----------



## orrm

zelkop said:


> Thank you for the suggestion, will try! It looks like I will need to order a special headphone cable or at least an adapter, please let me know of any recommendations.


Double Helix Cables has some awesome adapters as well


----------



## AlbertoPN

auded33 said:


> I have a Bliss on order and it will fascinating to pitch the Serene against Bliss driving my LCD-5 phones.


I'm looking forward to know your impressions about this comparison, very very curious.


----------



## PcChip

we need someone brave like @eskamobob1 to try plugging LCD-R into the Bliss and see what happens


----------



## ericx85

I wanted to do impressions on both the Stealth and the Expanse. I have tried the Stealth with the Bliss, but I seriously cannot put down the Expanse with this amp. Compared to the Soloist GT and A90D (I bought the A90D as a backup/second setup amp but I'm probably going to sell it too), the Expanse sounds even more Expansive than when I originally tried it out with the Soloist and I also get the clarity I would get with the A90D without the flattening of the soundstage (this would also make things sound very congested at times).

I bought the Expanse originally because I wanted something technically better than the Meze Elites with a more normal soundstage. I loved the Elites, just wanted something a bit more accurate. For my own tastes I think well recorded music with a technical headphone wins out against a headphone that works towards making everything sound good which the Elites are absolutely fantastic at doing . The soundstage on the Soloist was just a tad smaller than what I had hoped with the Expanse, but with the Bliss its just perfect. Timbre I would say is on par, maybe a bit better than an op amp upgraded Soloist GT. Much better than A90D. Nothing sounds harsh.

But I need to again say how well this amp handles layering/separation, at least on the Stealth/Expanse. Nothing sounds buried or suppressed. You can pick out and focus on almost any little thing and hear it clearly with clarity. I would think this goes along with what Goldensound said about the amp performing well across all frequencies instead of falling apart like other amps past 1khz. I think I'm set as far as amps go for years at this point. Just waiting for that inevitable May 2 announcement to see if it checks the few boxes I want with it. Hopefully it doesnt coincide with the motorcycle I'm looking to get this year which was part of the reason I sold my May.


----------



## Rayon

Posting a link to my comment here as well as I was completely blown away by the difference that cables make between May and Bliss: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mogami-interconnects.965871/post-17323321

I have never heard such a difference when switching cables. With my previous setups the difference has always been incremental, but now it was rubbed in my face.


----------



## ericx85

Rayon said:


> Posting a link to my comment here as well as I was completely blown away by the difference that cables make between May and Bliss: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mogami-interconnects.965871/post-17323321
> 
> I have never heard such a difference when switching cables. With my previous setups the difference has always been incremental, but now it was rubbed in my face.


I went from Mogamis myself to Lavricables grand. Mogami's are SO well regarded that I didn't expect the difference it made.


----------



## Rayon (Dec 30, 2022)

ericx85 said:


> Mogami's are SO well regarded that I didn't expect the difference it made.


Exactly the same thing happened to me (and the reason I wanted to comment here). I couldn't believe and understand as to me the difference was laughably obvious. Like listening to dacs between different brackets or something. I felt like an idiot as I've been commenting all over the place how good May+Bliss is and I've been listening only a shadow of that setup 

Bottlenecks, bottlenecks...


----------



## eskamobob1

PcChip said:


> we need someone brave like @eskamobob1 to try plugging LCD-R into the Bliss and see what happens



Someone asked and it's not 2 ohm stable :/


----------



## EMINENT

Rayon said:


> Exactly the same thing happened to me (and the reason I wanted to comment here). I couldn't believe and understand as to me the difference was laughably obvious. Like listening to dacs between different brackets or something. I felt like an idiot as I've been commenting all over the place how good May+Bliss is and I've been listening only a shadow of that setup
> 
> Bottlenecks, bottlenecks...


Are you talking about the ones that are $650 each?


----------



## PcChip (Dec 30, 2022)

eskamobob1 said:


> Someone asked and it's not 2 ohm stable :/


I'm the one that asked, and the official word was "no"

but surely that wouldn't stop _*you*_ from trying it would it?


----------



## eskamobob1

PcChip said:


> I'm the one that asked, and the official word was "no"
> 
> but surely that wouldn't stop _*you*_ from trying it would it?


ROFL. Should have looked at the username


----------



## ARCXENOS (Dec 31, 2022)

Arrived just in time before the year ends.

Gonna disappear for the long weekend, see you guys hear from me soon


----------



## PcChip

is it just me or is that wildism sticker not on straight?


----------



## EMINENT

PcChip said:


> is it just me or is that wildism sticker not on straight?


boooyy you gonna give that guy a heartattack


----------



## Rayon

EMINENT said:


> Are you talking about the ones that are $650 each?


Yes, this one: https://shunyata.com/products/audio-cables/venom-series-audio-cables/venom-xlr/ . Bought it second hand, so it was less.

_However_, I think that the result may be mostly due to Mogami 2549 being so bad compared to any proper XLR cable. I can't say how much better Venom is compared to other "proper" XLR cables (should be able to do some A/B to comment on that), but at least it made me watch Mogami like trash that one should never plug into a high-end system (and Mogami is highly regarded at least in professional circles). This was easily the biggest upgrade I've ever heard from cables and it was also a massive absolute upgrade for my system. Mogami was very obviously a bottleneck and I would compare this to upgrading a dac or switching from Windows compressed sound to bit perfect lossless.

But a comment on why I went Venom particularly: I knew myself and wanted to save some bucks and jump directly to Shunyata instead of cable hopping my way there. I've heard about Shunyata so many times that I wanted to try it (especially after another head-fier recommended it again). Now I absolutely love the way the setup sounds and I can also sleep my nights well knowing that I should be quite safely in the realm of diminishing returns. Venom was a "set it and and forget it" -solution for me, but I also wanted to verify my findings against Mogami as I never want to pay only for the looks or name. I would had sold Venom if the two would had sounded the same (and I wished that this would had been the outcome). However Venom crushed Mogami arrogantly and ostentatiously. It wasn't even a competition.


----------



## auded33

EMINENT said:


> boooyy you gonna give that guy a heartattack


You can turn the sticker upside down, won’t affect sound quality.


----------



## jonathan c

PcChip said:


> is it just me or is that wildism sticker not on straight?


It’s straight; the setup is crooked 😳🤣🤣


----------



## M700LTR

PcChip said:


> is it just me or is that wildism sticker not on straight?


Haven't had time to open mine yet, fingers crossed lol


----------



## jlbrach

PcChip said:


> is it just me or is that wildism sticker not on straight?


tilted to the left at least in the picture


----------



## tesox

The first thing I would do is peeling of those stickers. They don't even look good itself with that oldschool shape/style. I'm absolutely no fan of any
stickers or whatever on my gear. I was thinking about removing the Kitsune fox of my incoming unit, but fortunately it machtes in color at least 
and is not placed on the front.


----------



## PcChip

EMINENT said:


> boooyy you gonna give that guy a heartattack


hah, you're probably right.. sorry man 

those Wildism stickers just remind me of dealer stickers on new cars


----------



## EMINENT (Jan 1, 2023)

PcChip said:


> hah, you're probably right.. sorry man
> 
> those Wildism stickers just remind me of dealer stickers on new cars



Wait, it isn't a highly polished rare metal alloy bolted on?


----------



## mfgillia

tesox said:


> The first thing I would do is peeling of those stickers. They don't even look good itself with that oldschool shape/style. I'm absolutely no fan of any
> stickers or whatever on my gear. I was thinking about removing the Kitsune fox of my incoming unit, but fortunately it machtes in color at least
> and is not placed on the front.


FYI - It's been objectively measured to lose 20 dB in sinad once the Fox sticker is removed...


----------



## auded33

mfgillia said:


> FYI - It's been objectively measured to lose 20 dB in sinad once the Fox sticker is removed...


Verified! And if you turn the sticker upside down it improves SINAD even further. Not tried vertical yet.


----------



## incredulousity

I await the results of multiple stickers.


----------



## 801evan (Jan 3, 2023)

PcChip said:


> hah, you're probably right.. sorry man
> 
> those Wildism stickers just remind me of dealer stickers on new cars


Yep. He's lucky as I've seen worse Holo decaling.


----------



## Rayon

PcChip said:


> FYI, Tim (Kitsune) and Jeff (Holo) said that the Bliss does not support the LCD-R


Did he mention what's the supported impedance range btw? It would be very useful information to know.


----------



## Chartreuse

Rayon said:


> Yes, this one: https://shunyata.com/products/audio-cables/venom-series-audio-cables/venom-xlr/ . Bought it second hand, so it was less.
> 
> _However_, I think that the result may be mostly due to Mogami 2549 being so bad compared to any proper XLR cable. I can't say how much better Venom is compared to other "proper" XLR cables (should be able to do some A/B to comment on that), but at least it made me watch Mogami like trash that one should never plug into a high-end system (and Mogami is highly regarded at least in professional circles). This was easily the biggest upgrade I've ever heard from cables and it was also a massive absolute upgrade for my system. Mogami was very obviously a bottleneck and I would compare this to upgrading a dac or switching from Windows compressed sound to bit perfect lossless.
> 
> But a comment on why I went Venom particularly: I knew myself and wanted to save some bucks and jump directly to Shunyata instead of cable hopping my way there. I've heard about Shunyata so many times that I wanted to try it (especially after another head-fier recommended it again). Now I absolutely love the way the setup sounds and I can also sleep my nights well knowing that I should be quite safely in the realm of diminishing returns. Venom was a "set it and and forget it" -solution for me, but I also wanted to verify my findings against Mogami as I never want to pay only for the looks or name. I would had sold Venom if the two would had sounded the same (and I wished that this would had been the outcome). However Venom crushed Mogami arrogantly and ostentatiously. It wasn't even a competition.



Now you've got me interested. I'm using the Mogamis as interconnects: May L2 > XLR Mogami + Neutrik > Bliss KTE > Susvara (stock cable). I'm having a hard time getting over my prejudice that it's snake oil though -- after all, pretty much all these recordings I'm listening to were produced with Mogami cables, so I struggle to see how the "original sin" could be corrected in reproduction if they truly are "trash" in the first place. Everything I've seen suggests they measure perfectly well, and unlike a DAC or an AMP, I think the measurements on a cable are probably all there is to it.

I wish I could audition them and see for myself. Unfortunately $650 a pair is pretty steep for cables, and the closed listings I've seen for the venoms have pretty poor resale if it doesn't work out, while at the same time being resold infrequently enough that I might be on the hunt for months to get them fully depreciated.


----------



## auded33

Chartreuse said:


> Now you've got me interested. I'm using the Mogamis as interconnects: May L2 > XLR Mogami + Neutrik > Bliss KTE > Susvara (stock cable). I'm having a hard time getting over my prejudice that it's snake oil though -- after all, pretty much all these recordings I'm listening to were produced with Mogami cables, so I struggle to see how the "original sin" could be corrected in reproduction if they truly are "trash" in the first place. Everything I've seen suggests they measure perfectly well, and unlike a DAC or an AMP, I think the measurements on a cable are probably all there is to it.
> 
> I wish I could audition them and see for myself. Unfortunately $650 a pair is pretty steep for cables, and the closed listings I've seen for the venoms have pretty poor resale if it doesn't work out, while at the same time being resold infrequently enough that I might be on the hunt for months to get them fully depreciated.


I've been down the cable route. Now I make my own now using Canare L-4E6S, Mogami 2534 and Belden 1800F with neutrik connectors for XLR. For RCA I use Belden 1694F with Canare connectors.


----------



## Rayon

Chartreuse said:


> I'm having a hard time getting over my prejudice that it's snake oil though


I was in the same position. However I think it doesn't cost much (compared to May for example) to try. That's why bought Venoms used - I wouldn't take a big hit when selling.


Chartreuse said:


> After all, pretty much all these recordings I'm listening to were produced with Mogami cables


Until the digital mastering. However after that all that happens in the DAW in purely digital form usually. All the information that's created in the mastering process never go through Mogami before it hits your DAC.


Chartreuse said:


> Everything I've seen suggests they measure perfectly well


What I'm questioning is if we measure everything relevant. Point simplified: can we tell which car is faster by measuring the maximum speed? Kind of. But then again, what about the acceleration? Usually there is a very strong correlation between the two so it's easy to mistake maximum speed to be the only relevant metric. 

I completely agree that these tests probably test _these metrics _beyond one's audible level, but what I don't like is if we then just conclude that they all sound the same. It would make sense, yes, but I don't know at least to be honest. That's why I test myself. I don't want to study years to have enough knowledge to comment if the test actually is setup properly to provide information from which we _can_ conclude this and also I don't trust some random reviewers enough to let them conclude the thing for me. They have been wrong before with their conclusions. Ie. I trust the measurement device, not the person using it 


Chartreuse said:


> I wish I could audition them and see for myself.


This is what I did. Ask for a loaner from some hifi shop.


Chartreuse said:


> I might be on the hunt for months to get them fully depreciated


Yeah, this is a problem if your local hifi dealer can't loan you a pair. On the other hand, if they don't, they don't deserve your money either IMO


----------



## PcChip

I know it's offtopic but since we're talking about cables:  

for what it's worth, I use Worlds Best Cables [Canare Wire] with Neutrik Gold ends and love them  

Amazon -> Worlds Best Cables store -> XLR -> Canare


----------



## Chartreuse

PcChip said:


> I know it's offtopic but since we're talking about cables:
> 
> for what it's worth, I use Worlds Best Cables [Canare Wire] with Neutrik Gold ends and love them
> 
> Amazon -> Worlds Best Cables store -> XLR -> Canare



Mine are WBCs as well, I'm just using the Mogami version.


----------



## auded33

If you want to get the objective lowdown on cables and snake oil, you just need to read the objective reviews on Audiosciencereview.com . I don’t always agree with their over reliance on equipment measurements (for determining performance) but they are spot on when it comes to cables.


----------



## kingoftown1

Doesn't take much money or time to whip up a pair of neotech nei-3001 and find out for yourself.


----------



## tcode

With good system cable difference is quite easy to pick up. Especially on headphones.


----------



## Chartreuse

auded33 said:


> If you want to get the objective lowdown on cables and snake oil, you just need to read the objective reviews on Audiosciencereview.com . I don’t always agree with their over reliance on equipment measurements (for determining performance) but they are spot on when it comes to cables.



I read ASR too, and I think their objective measurements are useful data points. But, experimental results aren't always adequate to explain everything that matters -- checking for noise and distortion and frequency response are important, to be sure, but there aren't any measurements (on ASR, or that I know of) that describe resolution, or separation, or punch, all of which are clear as day when you measure a DAC or amp with your ears. I also buy the argument that there are a lot of performance factors that may not be easily audible on their own, but which are important in the psychoacoustic realm, which can create differences we aren't capable of measuring. For example, I bought an SMSL SU-10 to play around with those assumptions, which is the latest and greatest best-measuring DAC ever on ASR. But, my Holo May, which measures well but not as well as the SMSL on their narrow range of criteria, sounds SO much better that it's in a completely different world.

Cables, of course, are a lot simpler mechanically and electrically. So while I'm inclined to believe that pretty much all well-made cables are the same because there just aren't many opportunities to color the sound or change its character in any way, the existence of people (and prior skeptics) that claim to hear major differences is really intriguing to me. So I kind of want to give it a try. Like, @Rayon describes the Venoms as having much better bass than the Mogami. Unless the Mogami is attenuating the FR in the bass region -- or the Venom is attenuating the FR above the bass region -- this would appear to make no sense. But I haven't seen anything to indicate that anybody's cable is affecting the FR more than a couple of tenths of a dB. So what's the deal? Is there attenuation going on in one of the regions on one (or both) of the cables? Is @Rayon hearing differences that don't really exist? Or is the cable doing something (or NOT doing something) that is separate from straight frequency response which is creating a perceptual difference that is replicable across sessions / listeners / etc.? 

Everybody is so dogmatic in one direction or the other that I feel like I need to try it out to find out.


----------



## Rayon (Jan 4, 2023)

Chartreuse said:


> I read ASR too, and I think their objective measurements are useful data points. But, experimental results aren't always adequate to explain everything that matters -- checking for noise and distortion and frequency response are important, to be sure, but there aren't any measurements (on ASR, or that I know of) that describe resolution, or separation, or punch, all of which are clear as day when you measure a DAC or amp with your ears. I also buy the argument that there are a lot of performance factors that may not be easily audible on their own, but which are important in the psychoacoustic realm, which can create differences we aren't capable of measuring. For example, I bought an SMSL SU-10 to play around with those assumptions, which is the latest and greatest best-measuring DAC ever on ASR. But, my Holo May, which measures well but not as well as the SMSL on their narrow range of criteria, sounds SO much better that it's in a completely different world.
> 
> Cables, of course, are a lot simpler mechanically and electrically. So while I'm inclined to believe that pretty much all well-made cables are the same because there just aren't many opportunities to color the sound or change its character in any way, the existence of people (and prior skeptics) that claim to hear major differences is really intriguing to me. So I kind of want to give it a try. Like, @Rayon describes the Venoms as having much better bass than the Mogami. Unless the Mogami is attenuating the FR in the bass region -- or the Venom is attenuating the FR above the bass region -- this would appear to make no sense. But I haven't seen anything to indicate that anybody's cable is affecting the FR more than a couple of tenths of a dB. So what's the deal? Is there attenuation going on in one of the regions on one (or both) of the cables? Is @Rayon hearing differences that don't really exist? Or is the cable doing something (or NOT doing something) that is separate from straight frequency response which is creating a perceptual difference that is replicable across sessions / listeners / etc.?
> 
> Everybody is so dogmatic in one direction or the other that I feel like I need to try it out to find out.


Thanks for this post. This cheered me up. Tbh, I feel kind of bad for ever commenting on XLR cables. I think I managed to hit some kind of hornet's nest with that (especially the Mogami thread).

I think you hit the jackpot when you were talking about psychoacoustic realm. I don't feel that Venom has more quantity in bass or anywhere in the EQ sense. I'm talking about things like clarity/openness, separation and holographic picture. While with Mogami everything is little bit more congested, grainy and a tad less lively, things kind of open up with Venom and music sounds more lively. It's not a big difference in sound, but makes music more seductive. _That_ is the big change for me. But it may be my brain as well, who knows. And I don't care to be honest, it's just few hundred bucks. During last six months I've bought May, Bliss and Susvara. _That_ is stupid. The cable is just the cherry on the cake.

Now, Rayon out of the cable discussion.


----------



## Marutks

Chartreuse said:


> Everybody is so dogmatic in one direction or the other that I feel like I need to try it out to find out.



I have used silver cables (Norne, Lavri, Toxic) with many headphones (Focal, Audeze, ZMF) and I have never heard any improvement / difference whatsoever.


----------



## SlothRock

Just to add my two cents - I have never heard a difference in cables either but that hasn't prevented me from buying high quality cables. I love how soft and flexible high quality cables are, I love that they are gonna last and I love the way they look. Doesn't need to be sound related to hop in and buy a good cable tho I wouldn't ever spend $2k on one either


----------



## tcode

Rayon said:


> Thanks for this post. This cheered me up. Tbh, I feel kind of bad for ever commenting on XLR cables. I think I managed to hit some kind of hornet's nest with that (especially the Mogami thread).
> 
> I think you hit the jackpot when you were talking about psychoacoustic realm. I don't feel that Venom has more quantity in bass or anywhere. I'm talking about things like clarity/openness, separation and holographic picture. While with Mogami everything is little bit more congested, grainy and a tad less lively, things kind of open up with Venom and music sounds more lively. It's not a big difference in sound, but makes music more seductive. _That_ is the big change for me. But it may be my brain as well, who knows. And I don't care to be honest, it's just few hundred bucks. During last six months I've bought May, Bliss and Susvara. _That_ is stupid. The cable is just the cherry on the cake.
> 
> Now, Rayon out of the cable discussion.


On spot! Same for me.


----------



## Flextreme (Jan 3, 2023)

Ok, lets get back to the Bliss... 

I will try to be brief: this can easily become a way too long essay.

Currently I have both the *Enleum AMP-23r *and the *Holo Audio Bliss KTE* on my desk fed by a *Holo May KTE* and powering a *Susvara*.

I was extremely lucky to be able to purchase a fresh Bliss from the amazing head-fi user Brianfromspace offered a couple weeks ago here in this thread. I am super happy with the Enleum, but the opportunity to try the Bliss ‘secondhand’, only one week old and only minutes away (same neighboorhood) felt like a once in a lifetime opportunity.

Please note:

I’m powering the Sus on the speaker out of the Enleum, not the headphone out: to my ears the Sus sounds better this way.
Also, I use HQplayer for upscaling and modest EQ for the Sus.
I volume matched both amps exactly to 0.0 db difference when comparing on my minidsp ears rig using the calibration file in REW. This is so important, without I would be way less certain, these amps performance are so close sometimes. 
My conclusions comparing both amps with the May and Sus are at this moment:

Burn-in is essential, Brianfromspace mentioned 200-250 hours: this is absolutely true. Being able to compare the Bliss to Enleum, it was very clear the Bliss sounded dynamically a little compressed and the soundstage was clearly smaller in comparison to the Enleum during the first few days. After a week 24/7 burn-in dynamics, pace and stage improved considerably IMHO.

My initial Bias was clearly in favor of the Enleum: its form factor won me over in so many ways, and could easily drown in-, emotionally connect and be awed by Enleum’s extremely musical (liquid/tubey??) presentation that floats in front of my head.

But now I prefer the Bliss.

It has a dryer, more precise, more meaty (sound images take up more space) presentation with wider/larger but less deep soundstage. But the Bliss richness/precision/resolution in mids and (sub)bass was immediately apparent, only after burn-in it could rival the Enleum in dynamics, speed and soundstage.

I still appreciate the Enleum slightly deeper and airier soundstage: sometimes it feels more dynamic, because the Enleum puts more emphasis on the frequency extremes, whereas the Bliss uses a more even approach, and is obviously more articulate and of higher resolution in the mids. Once my ears hooked on to this level of detail, I missed it on the Enleum.

I compared the XLR and RCA of the May on the Bliss: XLR wins no contest. That makes the Enleum performance so admirable, but makes you wonder… what if Enleum supported XLR??

Technically the Bliss is clearly superior, the bump in resolution is relatively easy to appreciate. However, I can imagine the Enleum presentation is different enough that some (with a preference for a tube sound?) will prefer it to the Bliss.

For now, I will not sell the Enleum, I will try fuse rolling, and maybe try different interconnects first. If my conclusions change: I will come back to report.

*But for sure: the Bliss is a hell-of-a-amp for the Susvara in my book and a no brainer recommendation.*


----------



## PcChip

I 100% agree that the XLR out from the May is better than the RCA


----------



## Rayon

GoldenOne said:


> 'Loud' is gonna be different for different people. I'm listening at around 0dB on Susvara


Are you saying that you have HQPlayer -3db -> Holo May -> XLR -> Bliss -> Balanced -> Susvara @ 0db on LO-Z? Susvara arrived today and I'm listening -28db (attenuating -7db in HQPlayer due to EQ) and I'm wondering how much louder I can go. I feel that -25db is quite loud already. Isn't 0db destroying your ears?


----------



## SlothRock

Rayon said:


> Are you saying that you have HQPlayer -3db -> Holo May -> XLR -> Bliss -> Balanced -> Susvara @ 0db on LO-Z? Susvara arrived today and I'm listening -28db (attenuating -7db in HQPlayer due to EQ) and I'm wondering how much louder I can go. I feel that -25db is quite loud already. Isn't 0db destroying your ears?


Seems very low to me - I'm more in Golden's ballpark anywhere from -7 to -3 with the Sus and no attenuation through Qobuz. All balanced everywhere and LO-Z.


----------



## Rayon

SlothRock said:


> Seems very low to me - I'm more in Golden's ballpark anywhere from -7 to -3 with the Sus and no attenuation through Qobuz. All balanced everywhere and LO-Z.


Classical? With Gladiator OST I can easily go -20db.


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## genefruit (Jan 4, 2023)

SlothRock said:


> Seems very low to me - I'm more in Golden's ballpark anywhere from -7 to -3 with the Sus and no attenuation through Qobuz. All balanced everywhere and LO-Z.


With standard -3db for HQP and -6db DSD (or adjust -6 for PCM), I'm at -10 on the Bliss as a baseline, which equals a peak of 80db at 1khz at 0dbfs in my setup.


----------



## Rayon

No surprise my initial feeling about Susvara was "man, this is boring" when I was listening @ -38db  I have clearly been very conservative with volume it seems.


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## Flextreme (Jan 4, 2023)

Rayon said:


> No surprise my initial feeling about Susvara was "man, this is boring" when I was listening @ -38db  I have clearly been very conservative with volume it seems.



Either, you are joking, or you must have superhuman mutant hearing, or your bliss is reporting db incorrectly, or you are not using a Susvara, or we overlook/miss something massive here...

-38db is utterly quiet to my ears. If -38db sounds good to you, -5 db would greatly damage your ears.

You are not running any pre-amp between the may and bliss?


----------



## JooLoo

Does it say when its shipped i got a not from dhl but it doesnt say the weight and on kitsune it still says processing?


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## XVampireX (Jan 4, 2023)

Rayon said:


> Are you saying that you have HQPlayer -3db -> Holo May -> XLR -> Bliss -> Balanced -> Susvara @ 0db on LO-Z? Susvara arrived today and I'm listening -28db (attenuating -7db in HQPlayer due to EQ) and I'm wondering how much louder I can go. I feel that -25db is quite loud already. Isn't 0db destroying your ears?


I'm listening to my Utopia on mostly the Hi-Z setting at different volumes, but mostly ranging between -25 to -50 and we're talking about quite a bit of a difference in the sensitivity between Utopia and Susvara

Also probably a good reason why this topic isn't more active is because 1. It's still a new product. 2. Everyone is greatly enjoying it, so no time to waste on posting


----------



## Chartreuse

Rayon said:


> Are you saying that you have HQPlayer -3db -> Holo May -> XLR -> Bliss -> Balanced -> Susvara @ 0db on LO-Z? Susvara arrived today and I'm listening -28db (attenuating -7db in HQPlayer due to EQ) and I'm wondering how much louder I can go. I feel that -25db is quite loud already. Isn't 0db destroying your ears?



Wow that's low. I have Roon via M1 Mac Mini -> USB -> May -> XLR -> Bliss -> Balanced -> Susvara and I'm usually somewhere between -10db (reasonable) to 0db (rocking out and admittedly a little too loud for prolonged sessions). I think -7 to -4db is about the sweet spot where I'm getting the excitement without the damage. 

At -25db I could easily have a conversation with somebody else in the room with the Susvaras on my head -- it wouldn't even occur to me to listen at that volume, honestly. And if you're attenuating it even further, jeez. Are you sure you're not using HE1000SEs? 🤣

FWIW I haven't really used HQPlayer much since getting the May. Just doesn't sound as good as Bitperfect > NOS to me.


----------



## George Hincapie

I'm curious to understand what the synergy is like between Bliss and ZMF dynamic headphones. Have any of you listened to VC/VO with this amp? How was it?


----------



## incredulousity

George Hincapie said:


> I'm curious to understand what the synergy is like between Bliss and ZMF dynamic headphones. Have any of you listened to VC/VO with this amp? How was it?


Bliss sounds great with VO. Low hanging fruit for the amp, actually. Not to cast aspersion on VO at all.


----------



## SlothRock

incredulousity said:


> Bliss sounds great with VO. Low hanging fruit for the amp, actually. Not to cast aspersion on VO at all.



Agreed on this with the VC. With HI-Z particularly, it's an absolute joy. This amp really can match with any headphone out there with the options they threw in it


----------



## Rayon

Flextreme said:


> Either, you are joking, or you must have superhuman mutant hearing, or your bliss is reporting db incorrectly, or you are not using a Susvara, or we overlook/miss something massive here...
> 
> -38db is utterly quiet to my ears. If -38db sounds good to you, -5 db would greatly damage your ears.
> 
> You are not running any pre-amp between the may and bliss?


I do have sensory hypersensitivity (smell things that others don't, shower used to hurt me when I was a child etc) and to me some sounds feel painful that other people are ok with (kids etc), but it's the first time I hit this in my audio hobby like this. Listening -35db right now when attenuating -7db in HQPlayer (EQ to harman target) and it's quite nice listening volume. There is no way I could have a conversation listening at this volume. Interesting to see these results as they indicate that the difference would be a whopping 20db 

If the difference is really like that, I bet this was useful for my ancestors who were still living in the wild (hearing attacker or prey).

No preamp. May -> XLR -> Bliss.


Chartreuse said:


> Are you sure you're not using HE1000SEs? 🤣


Headphone says Susvara and I paid the price... But it was classifieds


----------



## Flextreme (Jan 5, 2023)

Rayon said:


> I do have sensory hypersensitivity (smell things that others don't, shower used to hurt me when I was a child etc) and to me some sounds feel painful that other people are ok with (kids etc), but it's the first time I hit this in my audio hobby like this. Listening -35db right now when attenuating -7db in HQPlayer (EQ to harman target) and it's quite nice listening volume. There is no way I could have a conversation listening at this volume. Interesting to see these results as they indicate that the difference would be a whopping 20db
> 
> If the difference is really like that, I bet this was useful for my ancestors who were still living in the wild (hearing attacker or prey).
> 
> ...


Wow.. as an experiment I've been listening at your prefered levels...  I clearly have been launching too many rockets from my shoulder and have enjoyed way to many Techno parties in my lifetime... 

Thank you for your explanation, I can imagine it is not always easy living with such sensitivity. I hope you enjoy your music the same way I do on our truly sensational May/Bliss/Sus stack.

This discussion is very enlightening to me: seems like my aging patoto ears are not the only ones listening at -10/-0db levels range.


----------



## tcode

Chartreuse said:


> FWIW I haven't really used HQPlayer much since getting the May. Just doesn't sound as good as Bitperfect > NOS to me.


Thanks for this, just confirmed that I'm not crazy. This is exactly I found out with Spring 3 KTE, I'm using HQ Player in a direct SDM, so practically no HQ player filters or shapers, just Bit Perfect true NOS and it sounds much more natural with wider sound stage than using HQ Player processing. Oh, and I've turned PLL off, works better that way for me.

Back on topic, I've ordered my Bliss a couple weeks ago, hopefully Magna Hifi will ship it in a week or two to me, still having Burson Soloist GT, will do comparison if anyone interested.


----------



## Giru

Hey guys, auditioned the Bliss extensively last night. The chain was: Pi2D Mercury V1 (IIS)----> Holo May L2 (NOS, BAL)---->BLISS (BAL)---->Headphones. 
Headphones used:
- LCD4
- Rosson RAD-0
- HEDDPHONE V1
- ZMF Auteur, VC, Atrium

 Some observations: (I listened to the Hedd, VC and LCD4)
THE GOOD:
- Very balanced and clean
- Dynamics and transients well handled (although I had to crank up the volume on HEDD quite a bit)
- Excellent staging (good width and height)
- Very good when paired with warmer gear. Hit my sweet spot a couple-o-times with the LCD4

THE BAD:
- Even with the right settings it lacked oomph. Esp with the Hedd. Not saying it wasn't loud but the pairing lacked charm. Sounded a bit forced.
- A bit dry/dull
- Slightly fatiguing with VC and Hedd

I had about an hour and half with it and used my usual test tracks. I liked it but it surely didn't blow my socks off. Impressions were better than those I had with Benchmark HPA4 the first time I heard it. It almost sounds like the HPA4 albeit with better organics and PRAT. 

It wasn't as powerful as I thought it would be. The heddphone was pretty meh with it (could be the pairing). Anyway I liked it better than the burson totl we heard in December (just not as powerful). We'll have another round with it next week prolly. Will take our high Z stuff then. 

Cheers!🍻


----------



## sahmen

Giru said:


> Hey guys, auditioned the Bliss extensively last night. The chain was: Pi2D Mercury V1 (IIS)----> Holo May L2 (NOS, BAL)---->BLISS (BAL)---->Headphones.
> Headphones used:
> - LCD4
> - Rosson RAD-0
> ...


Interesting, however, in addition to that already impressive list of cans, it would be nice if you could test-drive a Susvara and an Abyss TC too on the Bliss, that is, provided you can get your hands on either or both. I am saying that in case you can readily "find" or borrow either the Sus or the TC, without necessarily assuming anything.


----------



## Giru

sahmen said:


> Interesting, however, in addition to that already impressive list of cans, it would be nice if you could test-drive a Susvara and an Abyss TC too on the Bliss, that is, provided you can get your hands on either or both. I am saying that in case you can readily "find" or borrow either the Sus or the TC, without necessarily assuming anything.


Both these will be difficult as it was just four of us with our own cans. The amp is gonna be in the neighboring city so I may get access to it in the future, probably with the Sus for sure.

Regardless, there are far better amps out there for the Sus and TC. For those who can afford these cans, they can definitely afford better amplification.

The owner is a ZMF buff so he's pretty satisfied for now. We all felt ZMFs played with these nicely (except VC) but for me the best pairing was the LCD4. The Hedd was a letdown but I've seen it misbehave with quite a few amps so it wasn't anything surprising. Overall it's a decent amp and competes very well with the likes of GSX Mini, Bryston HP amp, etc.


----------



## devilboy

Spring 3 KTE owner here and first post on this thread.
I am so impressed with the S3KTE that I'm willing to take the leap to the Bliss unheard. However, I'm concerned about things I've read regarding the power. Is there a way to reduce power into a given load, as I understand the Bliss was designed to compliment the Susvara. 
I have the Meze Elite and am concerned about giving them too much juice.

Thanks.


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## Flextreme (Jan 5, 2023)

Giru said:


> Hey guys, auditioned the Bliss extensively last night. The chain was: Pi2D Mercury V1 (IIS)----> Holo May L2 (NOS, BAL)---->BLISS (BAL)---->Headphones.
> Headphones used:
> - LCD4
> - Rosson RAD-0
> ...



The first few days I felt the same. How much time did you leave your Bliss burning in? For me it took at least 8-9 days 24/7 punchy electronic music with a Susvara at -5db and for the Bliss to open up.


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## genefruit

Giru said:


> Regardless, there are far better amps out there for the Sus and TC. For those who can afford these cans, they can definitely afford better amplification.


Thank you for your insight regarding the Bliss.  I saw the above and it made me curious, what models you consider far better amps?


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## Arniesb

genefruit said:


> Thank you for your insight regarding the Bliss.  I saw the above and it made me curious, what models you consider far better amps?


Guy is troll, dont feed him.


----------



## Giru

Flextreme said:


> The first few days I felt the same. How much time did you leave your Bliss burning in? For me it took at least 8-9 days 24/7 punchy electronic music with a Susvara at -5db and for the Bliss to open up.


The owner is a friend and he's been burning in the Bliss for about two-three weeks now. He keeps his stuff turned on all the time so there's that.

Since the lockdowns have lifted we've been having these meetups quite frequently. It's been awesome making new close friends while at the same time sampling great gear and grease🍻

We've gotten pretty good at it too and so we have all these protocols for standardizing our listening sessions; gear already burnt in for over 200hrs, similar power supplies and cables etc, same interconnects, common test tracks, blind tests, etc. just to name a few. Although we do have different tastes and gear but we've become accustomed to each others. Sometimes we'll also rotate gears if there's something everybody likes.

I feel that as a device, the Bliss is true to it's lineage of Holo audio. It's more or less a similar tuning compared to the May: precise, uncoloured and technical with a sprinkle of organics on top. For patrons of the brand who don't own the odd hard to drive cans, this will feel right at home.

Anyway, as I said, it wasn't a bad amp but for 3k USD I've heard better or rather I'd prefer something else. It's definitely clean and potent but it's not the one size fits all solution. We'll know more next week.


----------



## Tchoupitoulas

Arniesb said:


> Guy is troll, dont feed him.


You're kidding, right? After 60 pages (!), we finally have some valuable impressions and you see fit to call him a troll? I do hope you're joking.

@Giru, thank you for your impressions. I look forward to reading more of them. It sounds as though you have a great headphone community there, and I greatly appreciate the fact that you've commented on the Bliss's pairing with several different headphones.


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## Flextreme (Jan 5, 2023)

Giru said:


> The owner is a friend and he's been burning in the Bliss for about two-three weeks now. He keeps his stuff turned on all the time so there's that.
> 
> Since the lockdowns have lifted we've been having these meetups quite frequently. It's been awesome making new close friends while at the same time sampling great gear and grease🍻
> 
> ...


Super interesting,

I can compare Bliss to my Enleum for my Sus, and I genuinely feel the Bliss is expressive and has PRaT. I listen mostly to electronic music and all forms of Techno. Kick drums rumble, are precise and have pace, and snares sound fast and snappy. Maybe the because of the Bliss being optimized for the Sus, or that I use EQ and OS specially for PRaT in HQP, or my expectations are simply different from yours.

Because of your comment, I did test out of interest the Susvara without HQP EQ and OS in bitperfect NOS mode: it does sound boring in comparison. But that is the case with the Susvara with all amps I've used so far: Supernait 2+Hi-Cap DR, Volot, Enleum and Bliss... That is why I do not even bother listening without EQ on my Sus. If EQ and OS in HQP did not give such fantastic results I would be searching for a different headphone by now. 

Too bad the Bliss is not your cup of tea, I do wonder which amp you would then prefer. Good luck hunting for that amp anyhow!


----------



## Giru

genefruit said:


> Thank you for your insight regarding the Bliss.  I saw the above and it made me curious, what models you consider far better amps?


I sense cynicism but it's understandable. Please know that i mean no offence and was just putting forward my impressions. These items are expensive and i get the anger when someone trashes or talks negative about stuff that we've just shelled out good money for. My apologies. As I said it's not a bad amp but for 3k I did find it to be a bit underwhelming for *my* tastes/expectations.

Anywho, answering your question: It depends. My personal preference as an alternative to the Bliss would still be the GSX MK2. It's an old design, does not have the astronomical amplification figures or the objective benchmark performance but it's still a very capable amp. Excellent PRAT, defintely more organics and  similar penchant for precision and accuracy. 

Another would be the Nimbus (lake people/Violectric). I've heard the US4+ and it was something quite different. Very organic and powerful.

Apart from these there are the DIY options: CFA3, Dynalo/Dynahi, β22 (bal) which can sound pretty awesome too.

Of course, if it's headphones like Susy or TC, you'll be far better served to run them off a decent power amp. I liked the Susy tapped from a Benchmark AHB2 with the May being used as dac and pre.


----------



## genefruit

Giru said:


> I sense cynicism but it's understandable. Please know that i mean no offence and was just putting forward my impressions. These items are expensive and i get the anger when someone trashes or talks negative about stuff that we've just shelled out good money for. My apologies. As I said it's not a bad amp but for 3k I did find it to be a bit underwhelming for *my* tastes/expectations.
> 
> Anywho, answering your question: It depends. My personal preference as an alternative to the Bliss would still be the GSX MK2. It's an old design, does not have the astronomical amplification figures or the objective benchmark performance but it's still a very capable amp. Excellent PRAT, defintely more organics and  similar penchant for precision and accuracy.
> 
> ...


No cynicism in my post, simply trying to get a fuller understanding of what you use as a basis for the statement.  Juxtapose, I moved from the CFA3 to the Bliss as a personal preference and that's the wonder of this hobby is there are different flavors/solutions for everyone.  Thanks again for you insight and perspective.


----------



## Arniesb

Tchoupitoulas said:


> You're kidding, right? After 60 pages (!), we finally have some valuable impressions and you see fit to call him a troll? I do hope you're joking.
> 
> @Giru, thank you for your impressions. I look forward to reading more of them. It sounds as though you have a great headphone community there, and I greatly appreciate the fact that you've commented on the Bliss's pairing with several different headphones.


This guy trolled Benchmark hpa4 page saying: how bad it is and now saying that this cant properly drive susvara.
I dont know are you half blind? Goldenone said that He preffered Bliss over Benchmark speaker amp.
Look at the power it produce and look at the power supply.
Wouldnt be better to say i preffer something different instead of lying?


----------



## Giru

Tchoupitoulas said:


> thank you for your impressions. I look forward to reading more of them. It sounds as though you have a great headphone community there, and I greatly appreciate the fact that you've commented on the Bliss's pairing with several different headphones.


Most welcome! 😊👍
We have definitely gotten to be a bigger and closer group than ever before. I guess the covid misery did have a silver lining after all.



Flextreme said:


> Super interesting,
> 
> I can compare Bliss to my Enleum for my Sus, and I genuinely feel the Bliss is expressive and has PRaT. I listen mostly to electronic music and all forms of Techno. Kick drums rumble, are precise and have pace, and snares sound fast and snappy. Maybe the because of the Bliss being optimized for the Sus, or that I use EQ and OS specially for PRaT in HQP, or my expectations are simply different from yours.
> 
> ...



I would definitely agree on EQing the Susy. Most people call it blasphemy but I personally find the susy boring as stock and without eq. 
However I don't own one myself. I did have a HE1000SE sometime back but it was replaced with the Erzetich Phobos V1 (my goto Planar). 

I have been using HQP (with and without roon and in different configs) since last year and it has been a love/hate relationship. TLDR, I always come back to Daphile bitperfect and NOS on the DAC. I find this to be quite versatile and suited to most if not all types of music. HQP is still very good for streaming and eq though.


----------



## XVampireX

Sounds like the person will probably prefer something like a tube amp with "dry/dull" adjectives and "lacking oomph" or whatever that would mean.
Also Bliss is very neutral and not as friendly to crappy recordings... really not


----------



## devilboy

Has anyone compared a Luxman p-750u to any of the amplifiers mentioned above?


----------



## Chartreuse

Giru said:


> It wasn't as powerful as I thought it would be. The heddphone was pretty meh with it (could be the pairing). Anyway I liked it better than the burson totl we heard in December (just not as powerful). We'll have another round with it next week prolly. Will take our high Z stuff then.



I think you might be confusing power and gain here. I have both the Burson Soloist 3X GT (which I assume you are referring to with "burson totl") and the Bliss, and the Burson DOES get louder (on high-gain mode), but the Bliss has more power (by about 20%). As a result I'm getting less congestion, better separation, and more punch for the same volume level with the Bliss, not that I ever felt the Burson was underpowered. The Burson on "lo-gain" is closer to how the Bliss is built, and the volume pot on the Bliss is intentionally pretty close to the top so that you're getting the most out of the amp at the top end of your listening range. When you're cranking it really high to get the volume you want, it's not that the amp doesn't have more to give, it's that the SQ tradeoff decisions being made mean that it's not really a power problem but one of gain. And I wouldn't sacrifice SQ to add gain I won't use just so I feel like it's more powerful. 

Anyway, perhaps someone else can phrase it more clearly, but at volume-matched levels you should be seeing more power benefits in the Bliss than the Burson even though the Burson appears to have further to go (which I certainly do when I A/B them).


----------



## jlbrach

Chartreuse said:


> I think you might be confusing power and gain here. I have both the Burson Soloist 3X GT (which I assume you are referring to with "burson totl") and the Bliss, and the Burson DOES get louder (on high-gain mode), but the Bliss has more power (by about 20%). As a result I'm getting less congestion, better separation, and more punch for the same volume level with the Bliss, not that I ever felt the Burson was underpowered. The Burson on "lo-gain" is closer to how the Bliss is built, and the volume pot on the Bliss is intentionally pretty close to the top so that you're getting the most out of the amp at the top end of your listening range. When you're cranking it really high to get the volume you want, it's not that the amp doesn't have more to give, it's that the SQ tradeoff decisions being made mean that it's not really a power problem but one of gain. And I wouldn't sacrifice SQ to add gain I won't use just so I feel like it's more powerful.
> 
> Anyway, perhaps someone else can phrase it more clearly, but at volume-matched levels you should be seeing more power benefits in the Bliss than the Burson even though the Burson appears to have further to go (which I certainly do when I A/B them).


it can be very misleading, my cfa3 which is very powerful requires me to go far further on the volume pot than many other amps I own and have owned that were far less powerful..it all depends on the attenuation of the amp


----------



## brianfromspace

Giru said:


> Of course, if it's headphones like Susy or TC, you'll be far better served to run them off a decent power amp. I liked the Susy tapped from a Benchmark AHB2 with the May being used as dac and pre.


How do you use May as pre???


----------



## TonyNewman

I have a Bliss KTE on order. I want to throw out my thought process on selecting the bliss as it might be of some use to folks considering a new high end SS amp.

My preference is for a powerful and near neutral SS amp. If there is any coloration in the amp I would much prefer a "hint of warmth" rather than any emphasis in the treble area. My DAC is a NOS R2R unit (Metrum Pavane L3) - it pairs best with a neutral - or near neutral - amp for my tastes. I am currently pairing it with a Audio GD Master 9 amp.

The master 9 is a solid unit, but I want to upgrade to a SS amp that extracts more from the music.

I have previously owned the GS-X Mk2 and the V281, amongst others. The GS-X Mk2 was technically brilliant, but failed in the treble area. Just too much in the top end for me. The V281 was powerful and pleasant, but just did too much to the music for my tastes.

The Niimbus and Bliss were on my shortlist. My past experience with the V281 and its darker sound signature pushed me to the Bliss. I understand that the Niimbus is closer to neutral than the V281, but I wanted to move away from Violectric after my experience with the V281.

I researched a bunch of other options on the way to settling on the Bliss. The Luxman P-750u would probably have been my first choice, but availability is a real issue in my part of the world.


----------



## devilboy

TonyNewman said:


> I have a Bliss KTE on order. I want to throw out my thought process on selecting the bliss as it might be of some use to folks considering a new high end SS amp.
> 
> My preference is for a powerful and near neutral SS amp. If there is any coloration in the amp I would much prefer a "hint of warmth" rather than any emphasis in the treble area. My DAC is a NOS R2R unit (Metrum Pavane L3) - it pairs best with a neutral - or near neutral - amp for my tastes. I am currently pairing it with a Audio GD Master 9 amp.
> 
> ...


I've always loved my Luxman p-750u but having not listened to a lot of amplifiers, I was always curious about what else was out there. 
I also love my Spring 3 KTE which is making me VERY curious about the Bliss.

I have to be nuts to consider selling the Luxman but I'm so blown away by the Spring 3 KTE that I can't help but wonder...


----------



## TonyNewman

devilboy said:


> I've always loved my Luxman p-750u but having not listened to a lot of amplifiers, I was always curious about what else was out there.
> I also love my Spring 3 KTE which is making me VERY curious about the Bliss.
> 
> I have to be nuts to consider selling the Luxman but I'm so blown away by the Spring 3 KTE that I can't help but wonder...



I would expect the move from p-750u to Bliss to be much more of a sideways shift rather than an upgrade. Have not heard either unit, so that is speculative, but if it was me I would hold onto my p-750u unless I got to hear the Bliss and found it be better suited to my tastes. These are summit-fi headphone amps - they are all special in their own ways. My 2 cents is that it is more about aligning amp selection to your preferences and system. YMMV.


----------



## devilboy

TonyNewman said:


> I would expect the move from p-750u to Bliss to be much more of a sideways shift rather than an upgrade. Have not heard either unit, so that is speculative, but if it was me I would hold onto my p-750u unless I got to hear the Bliss and found it be better suited to my tastes. These are summit-fi headphone amps - they are all special in their own ways. My 2 cents is that it is more about aligning amp selection to your preferences and system. YMMV.


👍


----------



## Giru

Chartreuse said:


> I think you might be confusing power and gain here. I have both the Burson Soloist 3X GT (which I assume you are referring to with "burson totl") and the Bliss, and the Burson DOES get louder (on high-gain mode), but the Bliss has more power (by about 20%). As a result I'm getting less congestion, better separation, and more punch for the same volume level with the Bliss, not that I ever felt the Burson was underpowered. The Burson on "lo-gain" is closer to how the Bliss is built, and the volume pot on the Bliss is intentionally pretty close to the top so that you're getting the most out of the amp at the top end of your listening range. When you're cranking it really high to get the volume you want, it's not that the amp doesn't have more to give, it's that the SQ tradeoff decisions being made mean that it's not really a power problem but one of gain. And I wouldn't sacrifice SQ to add gain I won't use just so I feel like it's more powerful.
> 
> Anyway, perhaps someone else can phrase it more clearly, but at volume-matched levels you should be seeing more power benefits in the Bliss than the Burson even though the Burson appears to have further to go (which I certainly do when I A/B them).


As I previously said, we have a protocol set when listening to new equipment. "Gain" (if the amp provides such a setting) is always kept at "Low" or "Medium" (depending on what setting is available) and never at the highest setting on the amp. Granted that there might still be variations with this but we never engage the high gain mode (where it is a high possibility that the amp will start killing dynamics, like you rightly said).
Nonetheless, as I have said previously, my observations are based on three headphones. We'll hopefully know more next week. I'll try to convince and get the gentleman who owns a Susy to come down.



brianfromspace said:


> How do you use May as pre???


Control the output from May.



TonyNewman said:


> I have a Bliss KTE on order. I want to throw out my thought process on selecting the bliss as it might be of some use to folks considering a new high end SS amp.
> 
> My preference is for a powerful and near neutral SS amp. If there is any coloration in the amp I would much prefer a "hint of warmth" rather than any emphasis in the treble area. My DAC is a NOS R2R unit (Metrum Pavane L3) - it pairs best with a neutral - or near neutral - amp for my tastes. I am currently pairing it with a Audio GD Master 9 amp.
> 
> ...


Yes the GSX MK2 can be hot up-top. I remember almost ouching while having it paired with the 800S. However I'd still prefer the MK2 over the Bliss for it's overall sound and organics.
The V281 is a different and interesting story but since it's discontinued, I guess no point discussing it. 
I have tried the Luxman at a distributor but it was a relatively short demo.
If you didn't like the GSX top end then Bliss should be right up your alley. They have a pretty similar sound signature. The Bliss being more balanced of the two ofcourse. For me it just didn't have the charm.


----------



## SlothRock

Just got my riser in and was able to set up my desk to really clean things up. I'm using both a PC here (not in the picture) as my personal and then switch to my MacBook for work. It was getting cluttered/messy with everything on the desk as it was so this riser was a godsend. Loving how it all turned out and still absolutely loving the Bliss. Literally 0 complaints.


----------



## chesebert

devilboy said:


> I've always loved my Luxman p-750u but having not listened to a lot of amplifiers, I was always curious about what else was out there.
> I also love my Spring 3 KTE which is making me VERY curious about the Bliss.
> 
> I have to be nuts to consider selling the Luxman but I'm so blown away by the Spring 3 KTE that I can't help but wonder...


TBH, you can do better than Luxman for less money. The amp was never all that transparent or effortless. It sounds fine and looks the part.


----------



## chesebert (Jan 6, 2023)

Giru said:


> As I previously said, we have a protocol set when listening to new equipment. "Gain" (if the amp provides such a setting) is always kept at "Low" or "Medium" (depending on what setting is available) and never at the highest setting on the amp. Granted that there might still be variations with this but we never engage the high gain mode (where it is a high possibility that the amp will start killing dynamics, like you rightly said).
> Nonetheless, as I have said previously, my observations are based on three headphones. We'll hopefully know more next week. I'll try to convince and get the gentleman who owns a Susy to come down.
> 
> 
> ...


GSX mk2 can be hot with less resolving dac (amplifies all the crap in the high frequencies) and requires a bit more thought in system matching. GSX mk1 is actually more balanced than mk2.   Also 800s is just asking for pain - it’s called ear tweeter for a reason.


----------



## Giru

chesebert said:


> GSX mk2 can be hot with less resolving dac (amplifies all the crap in the high frequencies) and requires a bit more thought in system matching. GSX mk1 is actually more balanced than mk2.   Also 800s is just asking for pain - it’s called ear tweeter for a reason.


😅 So true LOL.
I heard the GSX MK2 with a Lampizator Atlantic. The pair was very sympatico and sounded great. But you're spot on about the GSX being picky with bad sources. 
I haven't heard the MK1 but it is generally considered not as hot as 2.

It's almost a cliche to say this but somehow I'm not impressed with the subjective performance of modern mainstream amplification which is kinda ironic coz modern DACs (from the same brands) are wayyy better than what was available a decade or so ago. Of course this is a gross generalisation that could reflect on my personal biases, taste and preferences. But I've found more and more people sharing similar feedback so it's probably not all in my head either.

Auditioning gear before you buy is key. I understand this is easier said than done but is still the only way to build a chain that suits your tastes rather than building one based on internet/YouTube reviews.


----------



## CinnamonToastCrunch

devilboy said:


> Spring 3 KTE owner here and first post on this thread.
> I am so impressed with the S3KTE that I'm willing to take the leap to the Bliss unheard. However, I'm concerned about things I've read regarding the power. Is there a way to reduce power into a given load, as I understand the Bliss was designed to compliment the Susvara.
> I have the Meze Elite and am concerned about giving them too much juice.
> 
> Thanks.


I use the May KTE / Bliss KTE stack exclusively with MAD24 IEM's at between -50db and -40db on Lo-Z on the Bliss and it's a wonderful synergy.  Plenty of range available.


----------



## KEKPOG (Jan 6, 2023)

Very curious how Susvara sound on the amp.


----------



## Sound Eq

KEKPOG said:


> Very curious how Susvara sound on the amp.


I will give it to hifiman, they made the sus, I tried so many amps including nirvana, enleum and others, I came to conclusion sus will be sus. I like the sus but i know for sure once u buy the sus be ready to start chasing amps left and right


----------



## George Hincapie

Sound Eq said:


> I will give it to hifiman, they made the sus, I tried so many amps including nirvana, enleum and others, I came to conclusion sus will be sus. I like the sus but i know for sure once u buy the sus be ready to start chasing amps left and right


Is that really true? Zahl HM1 seems end game if comments are to be believed. Even Bliss handles Susvara nicely.


----------



## Slim1970

Sound Eq said:


> I will give it to hifiman, they made the sus, I tried so many amps including nirvana, enleum and others, I came to conclusion sus will be sus. I like the sus but i know for sure once u buy the sus be ready to start chasing amps left and right


This is the main reason why I eventually sold my Susvara's after four years of ownership. I never felt like I was getting the best sound from them. The Susvara's scale more than any headphone I have owned. It can take whatever power you throw at it. The drawback with the Susvara's is it takes more than power to get them to sound their best. System synergy is the key to great sound with this headphone.


----------



## Aquileolus

Got the Bliss and Red delivered at the same time! Can’t wait to try my Susvara on these and compare to my Auris Nirvana  
These was supposed to arrive on Monday, but somehow arrived early, sweet weekend


----------



## EMINENT

Aquileolus said:


> Got the Bliss and Red delivered at the same time! Can’t wait to try my Susvara on these and compare to my Auris Nirvana
> These was supposed to arrive on Monday, but somehow arrived early, sweet weekend


Congrats! I'd be curious if you could tell a difference with Red.


----------



## incredulousity

Aquileolus said:


> Got the Bliss and Red delivered at the same time! Can’t wait to try my Susvara on these and compare to my Auris Nirvana
> These was supposed to arrive on Monday, but somehow arrived early, sweet weekend


With which DAC do you plan to use Bliss? (Since you have 2 good ones and M-Scaler)


----------



## George Hincapie

Aquileolus said:


> Got the Bliss and Red delivered at the same time! Can’t wait to try my Susvara on these and compare to my Auris Nirvana
> These was supposed to arrive on Monday, but somehow arrived early, sweet weekend



I'd like to know if there is a genuine SQ increase with Red versus a Pi4 with Ropieee.


----------



## Aquileolus

incredulousity said:


> With which DAC do you plan to use Bliss? (Since you have 2 good ones and M-Scaler)


Now I'm running RED -> M-Scaler -> TT2 -> Nirvana
Bliss is still warming up, and my Spring 3 is downstairs with my speaker systems


----------



## Aquileolus

George Hincapie said:


> I'd like to know if there is a genuine SQ increase with Red versus a Pi4 with Ropieee.


I don't have a Pi4, but at first glance, I feel RED has better SQ than my PC with separated USB card, but need to go back and forward to confirm


----------



## KEKPOG

Slim1970 said:


> This is the main reason why I eventually sold my Susvara's after four years of ownership. I never felt like I was getting the best sound from them. The Susvara's scale more than any headphone I have owned. It can take whatever power you throw at it. The drawback with the Susvara's is it takes more than power to get them to sound their best. System synergy is the key to great sound with this headphone.


Agreed. I am highly curious cox of the fact that Jeff designed this product using Susvara as a reference exclusively. 
So its a 3000ish product made to drive Susvara, which we haven’t really seen yet.


----------



## ARCXENOS (Jan 7, 2023)

My simple opinions and impressions after 1 week of fun, using the Susvara, HEKv2, Utopia (2019), HD580 - I do not and probably will not use power amps to drive my headphones, so my opinion is strictly from a HPA perspective.

Chain used : HQPLAYER -> May L2 -> BLISS -> Headphones | ( preamp->Cayin HA300B mk2)

Susvara HEK and Utopia is using LO-Z, HD580 is using HI-Z

*Susvara*
- Great experience with Susvara, I never intended to get speaker amps specifically to power them (I will get them for speakers), but the Bliss solidifies it for me personally. Great Bass response while not sounding compressed or muddy. I do not hear anything being muted, instrument separation is clean and detailed, but not fatiguing. The last solid state amp I owned, the Flux Acoustics FA-10, definitely sounded like it struggled to drive the Susvara in relative comparison (and heck, I quite enjoyed the FA-10). What would I specifically say that I enjoy the most out of my experience? Definitely the weight of guitar strums in acoustic songs.

 LO-Z -03 via 6.35mm out is what I am driving them with, I still have decent headroom to play around with, especially if I change to balanced output. The smoothness that I have very much enjoyed from the May L2 is there, not sure if the Bliss is neutral or is Holo's "house sound" being double downed, but as an UK valve lover, I LOVE the smoothness. YMMV if you want a more aggressive profile though. I definitely need to borrow another DAC to test more.

I want to say the bliss *awakens *the Susvara to my speakerampless ears.

*HEKv2*
- Interestingly, I perceived them as more spacious than I would had expected, as I have always considered them a more forward, slightly aggressive and narrower sounding option I have. Apart from that, the same smoothness I described from the Susvara affects the HEK, but to a lesser extent IMO. From my point of view, the HEKv2 always has a mids issue, and the bliss does little to change to this. At the end of the day the HEKv2 still sounds like a HEKv2, but with a more pleasing treble. Flux FA-10 drives the HEKv2 well enough at a fraction of the price, so I do not think the HEKv2 scales up alot - if all you have is the HEKv2 and don't intend to chase the final percentages I think its perfectly ok to get a cheaper amp.


*Utopia*
- I feel the need to preface this, I actually demoed the Utopia multiple times over the years on different setups, but I never felt quite the need to get them, as they didn't really appeal to me sound-wise, until recently last April - when I finally got to demo them with what will be my current tube amp : the Cayin HA300 MK2. The Utopia is a very source picky mistress, luckily for me, I very much enjoy the music coming out of the bliss. Bass response is as expected from the Utopia, a very engaging experience. The rumble, slam, perceived soundstage and everything you expect out of an Utopia in a well synergized setup is here. I do not perceive the scratchy, sharp treble you expect from a poorly matched source, but instead I perceive a brilliant sparkle. No background noise can be detected even when maxed up in my setup, excellent performance.

To be upfront, I still very much prefer the tonality from my elrog + mullard ecc32 setup for the utopia, but I must say its just my opinion and tastes, its not a 1:1 upgrade but merely different. Furthermore, I very much enjoy the change in tonality when I roll tubes when I get bored of a certain signature...so thats another point to take note for myself.

Bliss is still a fantastic amplifier that sounds good with an excellent value proposition, especially if you take into account you don't need to deal with tube shenanigans : the heat, tube warm up period, maintenance, higher background noise on some tubes, eventual replacement of the tubes themselves, and lets be honest now, the money spent on rolling tubes. If I didn't have a tube amp and want to minimize my footprint, the bliss is definitely a contender.

*HD-580
- *Do I even need to say anything, these are so safely tuned and work well on almost everything that is not less than 99 dollars, Bliss is no exception.

*Preamp to headphone tube amp?*
- As we know, Holo May's output is pretty hot at 5.8VRMS, my only goal from using the bliss as a preamp is to lower that output. Directly from the tube amp, the utopia used to get very loud at 9'o clock, using a line out of -33, I can now use my utopia beyond 1'o clock, a very nice quality of life improvement. I know I can turn up the ha300b to max volume and solely use the bliss to control the volume, but I definitely prefer the cayin's volume control. I do not perceive a quality loss using the cayin this way, and that is all I ask for.

If its not clear enough, I would NOT buy the bliss for this purpose, there are other cheaper ways to attenuate the signal. This is just an extra bonus.

*TL;DR*
Don't like/want to deal with tubes and/or have a Susvara ? It is my opinion that the Bliss is fantastic.


*P.S.*



I slightly adjusted the sticker, its not perfect but I am definitely not gonna touch it more and make it worse!!


----------



## PcChip

Rayon said:


> I do have sensory hypersensitivity (smell things that others don't, shower used to hurt me when I was a child etc) and to me some sounds feel painful that other people are ok with (kids etc), but it's the first time I hit this in my audio hobby like this. Listening -35db right now when attenuating -7db in HQPlayer (EQ to harman target) and it's quite nice listening volume. There is no way I could have a conversation listening at this volume. Interesting to see these results as they indicate that the difference would be a whopping 20db
> 
> If the difference is really like that, I bet this was useful for my ancestors who were still living in the wild (hearing attacker or prey).
> 
> ...


with a 20dB difference in listening volume between you and everyone else, I almost wanna ask.... is your Windows volume set to 100% ?  lol


----------



## Rayon

I shouldn't have that risk. I don't have Windows, but NixOS (worked as a Haskell developer for 1,5 years which explains the somewhat niche operating system choice)


----------



## jlbrach

PcChip said:


> with a 20dB difference in listening volume between you and everyone else, I almost wanna ask.... is your Windows volume set to 100% ?  lol


yes, I thought the same thing...the difference is too dramatic to not be explained by something like that


----------



## M700LTR

M700LTR said:


> Haven't had time to open mine yet, fingers crossed lol


Ok stupid question, but I just got back from Japan and opened my Bliss KTE from Wildism. I'm missing my Wildism sticker right? These sort of QC issues irk me.

But anyway, Wildism recommended 400h burn-in, so here goes.


----------



## George Hincapie

M700LTR said:


> Ok stupid question, but I just got back from Japan and opened my Bliss KTE from Wildism. I'm missing my Wildism sticker right? These sort of QC issues irk me.
> 
> But anyway, Wildism recommended 400h burn-in, so here goes.


To be fair, the sticker looks rubbish. Is it really something to stress about?


----------



## SLC1966

M700LTR said:


> Ok stupid question, but I just got back from Japan and opened my Bliss KTE from Wildism. I'm missing my Wildism sticker right? These sort of QC issues irk me.
> 
> But anyway, Wildism recommended 400h burn-in, so here goes.


IMO stickers look their age over time.  Just gives me that fear of getting a new car delivered and post paperwork they put a dealer sticker on the back and drilled holes in the front bumper in order to add a front license plate.


----------



## M700LTR (Sunday at 9:42 AM)

George Hincapie said:


> To be fair, the sticker looks rubbish. Is it really something to stress about?


Oh yeah, I don't care about the aesthetics; but what I do care about is the poor attention to detail and lack of consistency. @ARCXENOS has a tilted sticker, I'm missing a sticker; what next? Doesn't inspire confidence when (a) these are among the first (few) batch(es) to be sent out (b) I'm contemplating buying a Spring 3/ May. Just comes across as amateur hour.


----------



## thecrow

Sound Eq said:


> I will give it to hifiman, they made the sus, I tried so many amps including nirvana, enleum and others, I came to conclusion sus will be sus. I like the sus but i know for sure once u buy the sus be ready to start chasing amps left and right


I respectfully disagree.

i bought the niimbus amp and then demoed the susvaras (again) with that amp and bought them (as initially planned when first buying the niimbus).

no idea if, for eg, the enleum or others are better, but i am as set as one could be - apart from looking at complementing headphones against the susvaras where nothing has wowed me enough to destroy the bank again (or sell a lot if what i have)

this is as “end game“ as it gets for me. But that may also be affected by me not wanting to/justifying spending another bucket load of money again as the susvaras were what i aspired to get to since i first heard them anyway






of course ymmv


----------



## orrm

M700LTR said:


> Oh yeah, I don't care about the aesthetics; but what I do care about is the poor attention to detail and lack of consistency. @ARCXENOS has a tilted sticker, I'm missing a sticker; what next? Doesn't inspire confidence when (a) these are among the first (few) batch(es) to be sent out (b) I'm contemplating buying a Spring 3/ May. Just comes across as amateur hour.


Isn't the sticker a dealer thing? Should have nothing to do with the actual device quality control.


----------



## JooLoo

Am I going deaf or is this ok im running ab1266 tc i typically go between -17 when im watching things or playing games to +6 and rarely +8 db when listening to music


----------



## EMINENT

JooLoo said:


> Am I going deaf or is this ok im running ab1266 tc i typically go between -17 when im watching things or playing games to +6 and rarely +8 db when listening to music


What are you listening to? I have some vinyl to digital rips that are very low also where I have to get up there but most loudness wars stuff hover between -5-+2 for me using XLR from May.


----------



## JooLoo

mostly metal/anime ost/game ost on tidal for music and youtube, games and twitch for casual "low" volume listening.


----------



## jlbrach

the problem I find in general is some recordings are so incredibly loud and some almost silent and it makes setting volume difficult...I find the roon volume leveling to do a pretty good job dealing with it...


----------



## JooLoo

jlbrach said:


> the problem I find in general is some recordings are so incredibly loud and some almost silent and it makes setting volume difficult...I find the roon volume leveling to do a pretty good job dealing with it...


i should really just get roon already


----------



## George Hincapie

JooLoo said:


> Am I going deaf or is this ok im running ab1266 tc i typically go between -17 when im watching things or playing games to +6 and rarely +8 db when listening to music


How do you like Yggy with Bliss? Which variant do you have?


----------



## PcChip

M700LTR said:


> I just got back from Japan and opened my Bliss KTE from Wildism. I'm missing my Wildism sticker right? These sort of QC issues irk me.


you came out ahead on that one imho


----------



## JooLoo

JooLoo said:


> i should really just get roon already


I have the og unison usb varient. So far love it, dont have much experience between dac differences since i havent tried many but by far the best ive heard thus far as well as the most expensive ive had yet.  Heard terminator pairs well with ab1266 so id like to try that at some point, but this is great just wish it was in black.


----------



## Rayon

jlbrach said:


> yes, I thought the same thing...the difference is too dramatic to not be explained by something like that


I'm again listening -33db and -5db in HQPlayer. One thing to note btw if you are _not_ using HQPlayer, but Roon directly: remember to check from Roon that it says that it's fixed volume! May doesn't _officially_ have volume control, but I was still able to use device volume in Roon. I think that May after all has some kind of digital volume control. If you are using Windows, it may be that May has it's internal volume level set to less than 100% and your system is using that. In some thread I saw some person that had quiet May and when he managed to switch it to fixed it solved the problem. Also: I noticed that Roon's fixed volume control had better SQ vs 100% volume. It may be my brain tricking it again, but I A/B'd many times and each time noticed a slight decrease in resolution when I switched between device volume and fixed.

I agree that 20db is insane amount. However to me everything above -20db is insanely loud. I wish I could teleport to someone's home to test this out. However if the thing is somewhere else than my brain/ears, I'm quite certain that other people's systems attenuate vs my system increase gain as then I would most certainly get a lot of audible distortion.


----------



## Flextreme (Monday at 7:41 AM)

Rayon said:


> I'm again listening -33db and -5db in HQPlayer. One thing to note btw if you are _not_ using HQPlayer, but Roon directly: remember to check from Roon that it says that it's fixed volume! May doesn't _officially_ have volume control, but I was still able to use device volume in Roon. I think that May after all has some kind of digital volume control. If you are using Windows, it may be that May has it's internal volume level set to less than 100% and your system is using that. In some thread I saw some person that had quiet May and when he managed to switch it to fixed it solved the problem. Also: I noticed that Roon's fixed volume control had better SQ vs 100% volume. It may be my brain tricking it again, but I A/B'd many times and each time noticed a slight decrease in resolution when I switched between device volume and fixed.
> 
> I agree that 20db is insane amount. However to me everything above -20db is insanely loud. I wish I could teleport to someone's home to test this out. However if the thing is somewhere else than my brain/ears, I'm quite certain that other people's systems attenuate vs my system increase gain as then I would most certainly get a lot of audible distortion.


While my hearing is clearly average for my age (probably even worse), I believe that you might truly have supersensitive ears.

Do you have access to a modern Iphone, we could easily do compare db level test with an iPhone as an experiment. This is not precise, but should be more than enough accurate to establish of you are listening at much lower levels than most of us.


----------



## OneEyedHito

Rayon said:


> I'm again listening -33db and -5db in HQPlayer. One thing to note btw if you are _not_ using HQPlayer, but Roon directly: remember to check from Roon that it says that it's fixed volume! May doesn't _officially_ have volume control, but I was still able to use device volume in Roon. I think that May after all has some kind of digital volume control. If you are using Windows, it may be that May has it's internal volume level set to less than 100% and your system is using that. In some thread I saw some person that had quiet May and when he managed to switch it to fixed it solved the problem. Also: I noticed that Roon's fixed volume control had better SQ vs 100% volume. It may be my brain tricking it again, but I A/B'd many times and each time noticed a slight decrease in resolution when I switched between device volume and fixed.
> 
> I agree that 20db is insane amount. However to me everything above -20db is insanely loud. I wish I could teleport to someone's home to test this out. However if the thing is somewhere else than my brain/ears, I'm quite certain that other people's systems attenuate vs my system increase gain as then I would most certainly get a lot of audible distortion.


The May does not (my May does not at least) have any internal volume control that I am aware of, and I am pretty aware.  As @Rayon says you should set Roon to "fixed" volume for output to your May and then use the Bliss to attenuate the volume.  The original post from @JooLoo that Rayon is replying to was a bit thin on details as to the actual setup and settings from what I recall but if you are not using Roon, try it out for their 7-day demo.


----------



## EMINENT

I'm confused, are you controlling volume with the Bliss or with HQP? @Rayon


----------



## mortcola

incredulousity said:


> Probably the best articulation of how and why Bliss is great, that I have seen thus far. I have the same stack, and my experience is identical, albeit with Elite and HD800S and VO. Looks like I need Expanse! All you need is Envy, and you can stop


Thank you! Every one of these headphones sounds like it's been upgraded thru the Bliss. Despite being built as an ideal amp for the Susvara, and, I believe, one other, it is simply an exemplary amp, bringing out the best in very different headphones.

What have you heard from the Senn and the Meze? Nice balance of cans - I can imagine they do different things. I know the Elite well, but haven't spent time with the HD800s.

There's a theme among these cans and black boxes, with their fancy evocative names. Bliss, Expanse, Abyss, Utopia - Susvara, Sanskrit for Harmonious. Now, the cables: Arctic mixes it up. They have Opera, which is what it is; Ingens, which means vast, extraordinary, exorbitant (it ain't cheap); Magnus and Integra. Nice and positive.  Double Helix has Prion, a virulent rogue protein or a south-seas plankton eating bird, and they have Chimera, which  is always a mix of elements in something of great power - sometimes an imposing fire-breathing female made of lion, goat, and snake, or just something really desirable but unrealistic. This is a fun hobby.


orrm said:


> I'm worried the Bliss with Prion4 interconnects and headphones cable to the Susvara would result in piercing highs or simply too much of a good thing listening experience. Was hoping it would be a little less neutral and more Holo house sound which from what I'm reading is not the case so much.
> 
> Any thoughts from owners on this?


I say don't worry. There is NOTHING  piercing from good silver cables. Totally a transfer of visual qualities to expected auditory ones. There's a tightness and perception of focus,  and a sense of harmonic bloom to the treble which has always tipped me off that I'm listening to silver (yes, I've picked them blind on every occasion someone has tested my ears; no, I can't prove it to anyone at Audio-Flat-Earth-dotcom, nor does it matter). I've always preferred silver, since using a KCAG Kimber phono cable on a fancy turntable many years ago. But the differences are subtle, and there's nothing so blatant or horribly wrong as to qualify for anything as damaging as "piercing". 
I have the Prion4 with the Expanse right here, playing through the Bliss. It is delicious. Nothing is boosted or wrong. Just clear, with full spatial qualities the Expanse is famous for, lovely tonality... 93% of the detail of a Susvara, with a touch of golden glow, first class bass, and, again first-rate staging, imaging, air, silence, all the cool in-between-the-notes stuff. The Susvara is being fed thru a Chimera, which is half silver. I wish I could convey to you how alien such adjectives as "piercing", or anything so defective, are when applied to this level of accuracy.


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## orrm

mortcola said:


> I say don't worry. There is NOTHING piercing from good silver cables. Totally a transfer of visual qualities to expected auditory ones. There's a tightness and perception of focus, and a sense of harmonic bloom to the treble which has always tipped me off that I'm listening to silver (yes, I've picked them blind on every occasion someone has tested my ears; no, I can't prove it to anyone at Audio-Flat-Earth-dotcom, nor does it matter). I've always preferred silver, since using a KCAG Kimber phono cable on a fancy turntable many years ago. But the differences are subtle, and there's nothing so blatant or horribly wrong as to qualify for anything as damaging as "piercing".
> I have the Prion4 with the Expanse right here, playing through the Bliss. It is delicious. Nothing is boosted or wrong. Just clear, with full spatial qualities the Expanse is famous for, lovely tonality... 93% of the detail of a Susvara, with a touch of golden glow, first class bass, and, again first-rate staging, imaging, air, silence, all the cool in-between-the-notes stuff. The Susvara is being fed thru a Chimera, which is half silver. I wish I could convey to you how alien such adjectives as "piercing", or anything so defective, are when applied to this level of accuracy


Thank you for a thoughtful reply. I own a Prion4 with the Susvara and have auditioned the Chimera as well. My worry was from the prion4 interconnects being too much of a good thing but I eventually went with a pre-order for the HM1 instead of the Bliss anyway. Had the same thought with that chain but I'm sure both would've turned great.


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## Pappi Daa Hobo

Can anyone give a comparison of the Bliss and the iFi pro Ican sig? Thinking about making the step up, I have had the Soloist GT in the past and liked the SQ of that as well, though prefer the slight warmth in the Ican


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## OneEyedHito

Pappi Daa Hobo said:


> Can anyone give a comparison of the Bliss and the iFi pro Ican sig? Thinking about making the step up, I have had the Soloist GT in the past and liked the SQ of that as well, though prefer the slight warmth in the Ican


Which headphones?  This is going to matter a lot considering these 3 devices.  @GoldenOne referred to the Bliss as just a hair warmer than neutral in his recent Zahl HM1 Written review.  Having had the iFi and the Soloist I would say the iFi is more than a hair warmer than neutral even without the tube engaged and the Soloist more neutral but I don't find either particularly resolving at this level.  So the listening device and its synergy is going to have more to say about warmth at the end of the day and also my Bliss hasn't shown up yet, hoping for tomorrow.


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## Pappi Daa Hobo

OneEyedHito said:


> Which headphones?  This is going to matter a lot considering these 3 devices.  @GoldenOne referred to the Bliss as just a hair warmer than neutral in his recent Zahl HM1 Written review.  Having had the iFi and the Soloist I would say the iFi is more than a hair warmer than neutral even without the tube engaged and the Soloist more neutral but I don't find either particularly resolving at this level.  So the listening device and its synergy is going to have more to say about warmth at the end of the day and also my Bliss hasn't shown up yet, hoping for tomorrow.


Well right now I'm listening to mainly Expanse, Stealth, Arya V2, and even 660s on occasion. I do think the iCan is a bit too warm at times masking some micro details and the sound stage is noticeably smaller compared to what i remember from the soloist GT so if the bliss is an in-between its right up my alley lol. I hope the Bliss has better bass than the soloist GT


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## GoldenOne

OneEyedHito said:


> Which headphones?  This is going to matter a lot considering these 3 devices.  @GoldenOne referred to the Bliss as just a hair warmer than neutral in his recent Zahl HM1 Written review.  Having had the iFi and the Soloist I would say the iFi is more than a hair warmer than neutral even without the tube engaged and the Soloist more neutral but I don't find either particularly resolving at this level.  So the listening device and its synergy is going to have more to say about warmth at the end of the day and also my Bliss hasn't shown up yet, hoping for tomorrow.


Yeah the ifi is definitely quite a bit warmer than the bliss


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## OneEyedHito

Pappi Daa Hobo said:


> Well right now I'm listening to mainly Expanse, Stealth, Arya V2, and even 660s on occasion. I do think the iCan is a bit too warm at times masking some micro details and the sound stage is noticeably smaller compared to what i remember from the soloist GT so if the bliss is an in-between its right up my alley lol. I hope the Bliss has better bass than the soloist GT


I anticipate the Bliss to have better bass than the SGT from what I have read, but the SGT does have a SUB out and for anyone that hasn't setup a proper SUB with a set of open back headphones or even better yet with the Mysphere then you should! It is a real treat to have proper sound in your ears and a legit thump in your chest from a proper sub.


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## HC1205

GoldenOne said:


> Yeah the ifi is definitely quite a bit warmer than the bliss


will you be doing a written/video review for Holo Bliss?


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## orrm

OneEyedHito said:


> It is a real treat to have proper sound in your ears and a legit thump in your chest from a proper sub.


I accidentally once listened to my Susvara without turning the subwoofers off in my amp and enjoyed the heck of it without even realizing what's going on until a few good songs into it lol


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## iFi audio

GoldenOne said:


> Yeah the ifi is definitely quite a bit warmer than the bliss



I don't know how Bliss sounds like, but many of our products are a touch on the warmer side indeed


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## GoldenOne

iFi audio said:


> I don't know how Bliss sounds like, but many of our products are a touch on the warmer side indeed


Which is often fairly welcome, especially with most consumer DACs these days being ESS based and to my ears often being more on the sterile side, stuff like the Burr Brown based iFi DACs are quite a welcome change indeed.


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## stuck limo (Wednesday at 2:26 AM)

ericx85 said:


> I went from Mogamis myself to Lavricables grand. Mogami's are SO well regarded that I didn't expect the difference it made.



1. Can someone explain to me the difference between the Wildism version and the KTE version?

2. I found a combo setup for a buddy with the Holo Spring and a Singxer USB interface for reclocking, etc. The Singxer was using an I2S connection > Spring. The guy who sold us the combo swore up and down that a) the generic $5 I2S included cable was all that was needed and b) if we used an HDMI cable, we were doing it wrong and it a) wouldn't work or b) if it did, it wouldn't work as well. 

My buddy can't tell the differences between cables very well, but he buys top tier stuff all the time just because a) he has the money to burn and b) he likes having the best for both peace of mind and aesthetic purposes. So he had me buy an Audioquest Carbon HDMI (as recommended by me, partially because it's been 100% my experience that digital cables do matter, and I'm also [generally] an AQ fanboy who has [almost] always had great luck with their products. He told me [because he trusts my ears more than his own due to military experience for 20 years] to test them out and he'd keep the better one.

Anyway, I tried several different tests [including blind tests administered by him] and the AQ absolutely blew away the $5 generic blue cable every time and I could very easily tell which was which. The AQ had better space, black background, tonality and definition. Better soundstage and way more sparkle up top as well.

Then I tried the Singxer vs the @iFi audio iGalvanic/Micro iUSB3.0 Filter chain and thought the Singxer sounded like hot garbage compared to the iFi setup. (he kept the Singxer with the system though)

Long story short --- yes, cables do matter, regardless of whether they're analog or digital for audio. (and sometimes cheaper cables DO sound better, as I just experienced [not for the first time either] with 2 different cables for my HD 600). Anyway, he's extremely happy with the current Singxer/AQ/Spring setup.

Another note, and I'm not really sure what causes it, but this was touched on earlier in this thread: a lot of times different cables will provide different "punch" and power to your headphones, as well as volume. I guess maybe the resistance factor of the wire used. I was complaining one time of a headphone lacking bass to my buddy. I switched to a very expensive cable (Plussounds brand) he had loaned me after making this complaint. I didn't touch ANYTHING on the amp. Literally just swapped headphone cables and all the sudden (and I wasn't expecting or knowing what would happen with this cable, it was the first time trying it) BOOM; the strong bass appeared in the headphones and my volume level had shot up, and again, I hadn't touched ANYTHING on the amp between the cable swap. (SMSL SP200)

Long story short: if you're having something as top tier as a Holo product, make sure your cables are really top notch. Mogami makes great stuff but there's definitely better out there.


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## stuck limo (Wednesday at 5:26 AM)

Thiiiiis is what I was looking for:

https://headphones.com/blogs/reviews/zahl-hm1-review-measurements



> The amplifier that is closest to the HM1 for me is the Holo Audio Bliss, which really does get incredibly close to the sound quality alone of the HM1, and shares some aspects such as being full Class A, having excellent objective performance, and massive power on tap, but the main difference in sound between the two is that the Bliss is just ever so slightly, if only by a hair, warmer than neutral.
> 
> Not at all close to other ‘warm’ amplifiers such as the Rebel Amp, GS-X Mini, Enleum AMP-23R or Hifiman EF1000, but when comparing to the Ferrum OOR for example the Bliss’ treble in particular is juuust a tad less sterile or dry. (Not that the OOR is in itself sterile or dry, it’s almost perfectly neutral in my view and amps like the Topping A90 or Benchmark HPA4 are more sterile and not as enjoyable as it is). The HM1 though is perfectly neutral in Class A + Servo mode, immensely dynamic, separates and stages wonderfully, and does all of this without ever feeling the slightest bit fatiguing. You can have your cake and eat it too.


 
and:


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## iFi audio

GoldenOne said:


> Which is often fairly welcome, especially with most consumer DACs these days being ESS based and to my ears often being more on the sterile side, stuff like the Burr Brown based iFi DACs are quite a welcome change indeed.



Thanks, that's very kind of you


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## iFi audio

stuck limo said:


> @iFi audio iGalvanic/Micro iUSB3.0 Filter chain and thought the Singxer sounded like hot garbage compared to the iFi setup



The micro iGalvanic3.0/iUSB3.0 combo is the very best we ever had for USB audio purposes, so may thanks for your feedback!

Edit: oops! sorry for double-posting!


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## ericx85

iFi audio said:


> The micro iGalvanic3.0/iUSB3.0 combo is the very best we ever had for USB audio purposes, so may thanks for your feedback!
> 
> Edit: oops! sorry for double-posting!


So start making them again!  Honestly my suspicion is you guys are working on something even better. Also love the ifipurifier and nova cables you guys cranked out. Supanova is treating the Bliss very well. Granted I'm waiting on a Holo Red DDC because my stupid ears hear i2s sounding better than USB on most dacs, but not every dac has i2s and it's the only other input that can keep up with USB when it comes to higher sample rates for upsampling so having something to block beefier PC noise if you have to use USB is great.


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## stuck limo

ericx85 said:


> So start making them again!  Honestly my suspicion is you guys are working on something even better. Also love the ifipurifier and nova cables you guys cranked out. Supanova is treating the Bliss very well. Granted I'm waiting on a Holo Red DDC because my stupid ears hear i2s sounding better than USB on most dacs, but not every dac has i2s and it's the only other input that can keep up with USB when it comes to higher sample rates for upsampling so having something to block beefier PC noise if you have to use USB is great.



Yeah, iGalvanic and Micro are both out of stock and don't appear to be on the market anymore. I'm betting they're probably working on upgraded versions. Well, if not, I have 3 of each so I'm set.


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## incredulousity

ericx85 said:


> So start making them again!  Honestly my suspicion is you guys are working on something even better. Also love the ifipurifier and nova cables you guys cranked out. Supanova is treating the Bliss very well. Granted I'm waiting on a Holo Red DDC because my stupid ears hear i2s sounding better than USB on most dacs, but not every dac has i2s and it's the only other input that can keep up with USB when it comes to higher sample rates for upsampling so having something to block beefier PC noise if you have to use USB is great.


I also very much like the SupaNova cables, with Bliss and other devices, but due to rearranging of stacks, have more of these than I need, If anyone needs any, PM me. Love the iFi cords, but need more passive than active cords. Would take Nova (non-Supa) +$ in trade too.


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## Greg121986

It's going to get lost in this thread, but I want to acknowledge how USEFUL the remote is, and point out the fact that the Bliss is picking up signal from the remote at nearly 90 degrees! I have my bliss at the side of my work desk on its own rack. I can sit and work and change the volume without having to worry about the angle of the remote at all. I am almost completely to the side of the Bliss and it is still picking up the remote signal. Very nice!


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## incredulousity

Greg121986 said:


> It's going to get lost in this thread, but I want to acknowledge how USEFUL the remote is, and point out the fact that the Bliss is picking up signal from the remote at nearly 90 degrees! I have my bliss at the side of my work desk on its own rack. I can sit and work and change the volume without having to worry about the angle of the remote at all. I am almost completely to the side of the Bliss and it is still picking up the remote signal. Very nice!


Agreed. And as an added bonus, the output button on my Bliss remote also turns on/off the space heater in my room , eliminating the need for the heater’s tiny, easily lost cheap plastic remote. Win-win.


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## iFi audio

ericx85 said:


> So start making them again!



Who knows, maybe we will 



stuck limo said:


> Yeah, iGalvanic and Micro are both out of stock and don't appear to be on the market anymore



That's true, they're discontinued now.



stuck limo said:


> I'm betting they're probably working on upgraded versions.



I have no info about that at this time, but whatever USB it is that our R&D is busy with (or not  ), it should be a step above micro iUSB3.0 and i Galvanic3.0.


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## stuck limo

iFi audio said:


> I have no info about that at this time, but whatever USB it is that our R&D is busy with (or not  ), it should be a step above micro iUSB3.0 and i Galvanic3.0.


I don't know if it's possible, but a unit that combined both functionalities would be amaaaazing. I would slap that so fast onto my system.

Eventually the goal is to have the entire Holo chain, or at least the May and Bliss.

On a side note, the only time I didn't hear any difference between digital cables was on the Radsone ES100. Bottom of the barrel cable vs high end.....no difference. I'm not sure if that's a testament or knock against that device....


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## tcode

Got it today. It is definitely an upgrade over Burson GT.


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## ufospls2

tcode said:


> Got it today. It is definitely an upgrade over Burson GT.


Damn, nice pic, makes them look awesome! You might want to put the bliss on top for better heat dissipation, I'm not sure?


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## tcode

ufospls2 said:


> Damn, nice pic, makes them look awesome! You might want to put the bliss on top for better heat dissipation, I'm not sure?


I put them that way because Bliss weights more. So far so good, the Bliss isn't quite hot on the top, I can feel more heat dissipation on the side.


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## Slim1970

tcode said:


> Got it today. It is definitely an upgrade over Burson GT.


What are you hearing from the Bliss that makes it better than the Soloist GT?


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## tcode

Slim1970 said:


> What are you hearing from the Bliss that makes it better than the Soloist GT?


Better instrument separation, better bass control, more holographic sound with wider and deeper soundstage, more micro details. Sounds more calm, very easy and pleasant for ears.


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## Slim1970

tcode said:


> Better instrument separation, better bass control, more holographic sound with wider and deeper soundstage, more micro details. Sounds more calm, very easy and pleasant for ears.


Is that with the upgraded op-amps in the GT or with the GT in stock form?


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## tcode

Slim1970 said:


> Is that with the upgraded op-amps in the GT or with the GT in stock form?


Stock, with Burson SuperCharger.


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## tcode

A little gift from Magna Hi Fi, thank you guys!


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## OneEyedHito

Slim1970 said:


> Is that with the upgraded op-amps in the GT or with the GT in stock form?


In my experience there are not  “upgraded” op-amps for the burson gear as much as just different flavors of op amps. It’s nice to be able to open a burson amp or DAC/amp and change op-amps to change the sound to your preference/other equipment though.


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## iFi audio

stuck limo said:


> I don't know if it's possible, but a unit that combined both functionalities would be amaaaazing. I would slap that so fast onto my system.



Something like that was (...and who knows, maybe still is?) considered.



tcode said:


> A little gift from Magna Hi Fi, thank you guys!



And just to stay on the subject of this thread, that's a very handsome remote control


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## orrm

tcode said:


> A little gift from Magna Hi Fi, thank you guys!


does it still rattle when you shake it a bit? that used to happen with my Spring 3 remote and I HATED that..


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## tcode

orrm said:


> does it still rattle when you shake it a bit? that used to happen with my Spring 3 remote and I HATED that..


Yes, a bit. But not annoying to me at all.


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## damascato




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## Slim1970

OneEyedHito said:


> In my experience there are not  “upgraded” op-amps for the burson gear as much as just different flavors of op amps. It’s nice to be able to open a burson amp or DAC/amp and change op-amps to change the sound to your preference/other equipment though.


Very true, they also improve some technicalities as well


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## JooLoo

iFi audio said:


> The micro iGalvanic3.0/iUSB3.0 combo is the very best we ever had for USB audio purposes, so may thanks for your feedback!
> 
> Edit: oops! sorry for double-posting!


Would love it if you made a full sized dac with actual accessible rollable tubes like your parent company AMR like the dp-777 se


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## AlbertoPN

damascato said:


>


From right to left in the picture for the three action figures: Diego Abatantuono on "Attila flagello di Dio", Lino Banfi in one of the several characters he played, maybe "Oronzo Canà "? , but I miss the one on the left of the picture. Thomas Milian "Er Monnezza" maybe ? 
A part from this, great set-up and headphones cabling


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## Pappi Daa Hobo

damascato said:


>


How are you liking the Expanse with the Bliss?


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## damascato

Pappi Daa Hobo said:


> How are you liking the Expanse with the Bliss?


Haven’t had the chance yet mate…. Only Susvara and Caldera so far.


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## damascato

AlbertoPN said:


> From right to left in the picture for the three action figures: Diego Abatantuono on "Attila flagello di Dio", Lino Banfi in one of the several characters he played, maybe "Oronzo Canà "? , but I miss the one on the left of the picture. Thomas Milian "Er Monnezza" maybe ?
> A part from this, great set-up and headphones cabling


Er Principe (Mario Brega in Bianco, rosso…) 😂


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## sahmen

damascato said:


> Haven’t had the chance yet mate…. Only Susvara and Caldera so far.


And how is it doing with the Susvara?


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## damascato

sahmen said:


> And how is it doing with the Susvara?


So far (just a few days) I think the Bliss drives them more effortlessly than any other amp I’ve tried.


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## XVampireX

Does anyone have any idea how the Purple fuses change the sound? And you talked earlier about the Shunyata Venom interconnects as well.
Watching an older movie called Kuro-Obi with my Utopia and Bliss, rather Epic (Breathtaking) on the sound front, completely changes the immersion factor.


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## incredulousity

I have no experience of the improvement due to purple fuse in my Bliss, because I liked the improvement when I put one in my May, so put one in Bliss when I received it. The effects of these were noticeable in the other amps (Envy, GSX Mk2) even more than in May. Greater depth, weight, blacker background, soundstage broadened a bit and imaging more precise. I’d not call it night and day, but it’s audible in my opinion, and worth it. All these devices are more than good enough without “magic purple fuses,” and certainly no one has to buy them.


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## tesox (39 minutes ago)

Bliss arrived on tuesday and today I finally had some time to set it up and rearrange my gear.


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