# DIY Earbuds



## gwompki

I'm an active participant over on the Earbuds roundup thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/441400/earbuds-round-up) and recently there has been a fair amount of discussion regarding DIY.  I realize there is already a thread discussing IEMs, but I didn't see much discussion for ear buds.
  
 There are a lot of components available for sale on AliExpress, but unfortunately the product descriptions are very often lacking in detail.  I'm hoping this thread will become a place to share information on parts, show completed builds, give impressions on tuning materials, potential pitfalls, etc.
  
 Just to kick off the discussion, I'm planning to build a 300 ohm earbud with these drivers (thanks to @Brian Coffey for recommendation):
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/mx500-driver-15-4mm-speaker-unit-300ohms-send-mx500-shell/32599219535.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.270.MKXLvF
  
 As well as what I think is a Yuin PK1 type bud:
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/original-YUIN-pk1-transparent-film-150ohm-14mm-speaker-unit-fever-earhook-earphones-disassemble/32376534125.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.267.MKXLvF


----------



## Brian Coffey

I'm here and subscribed  I saw another of the PK1 drivers last night with a red film. I'll try to find the link.


----------



## gwompki

I saw those as well. Red film 150 ohm and 32 ohm. Also pink film which were labeled as pk2 I think.

I would love to know the differences.


----------



## purplesun

Subscribed as well. 

Have these on the way. Claims to be the drivers used in Sony e888 and ath-cm5. Thought I'd give it a try.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Indonesia-produced-fever-class-16MM-ear-speaker-unit-CM3-CM5-upgraded-version-comparable-to-E888LP/32689812521.html

Will post up results when it's done.


----------



## Brian Coffey

purplesun said:


> Subscribed as well.
> 
> Have these on the way. Claims to be the drivers used in Sony e888 and ath-cm5. Thought I'd give it a try.
> 
> ...


 
 16mm sounds interesting and the price is right. May try these for my next project.


----------



## purplesun

brian coffey said:


> 16mm sounds interesting and the price is right. May try these for my next project.



But be warned. If it is indeed like the originals, there will be no lower bass and recessed mid bass. But mids and highs should be quite special. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Brian Coffey

purplesun said:


> But be warned. If it is indeed like the originals, there will be no lower bass and recessed mid bass. But mids and highs should be quite special. Fingers crossed.


 
 Hmmm May not be for me then. Looking for sound like Cygnus or Zen 2.0 I think. I haven't heard either...Lol


----------



## purplesun

Adhesive.

Anyone have any idea what's a good one to use? I'm just going use whatever I have lying around. Unless, there's something better. Hope I don't make a mess of it.


----------



## Brian Coffey

purplesun said:


> Adhesive.
> 
> Anyone have any idea what's a good one to use? I'm just going use whatever I have lying around. Unless, there's something better. Hope I don't make a mess of it.


 
 I used RTV silicon applied with a tooth pick to stick the fronts on the shells. For a more permanent solution I had thought about Plasti Weld like what I used on model cars.


----------



## purplesun

brian coffey said:


> Hmmm May not be for me then. Looking for sound like Cygnus or Zen 2.0 I think. I haven't heard either...Lol




Yeah, end-game earbuds made on our kitchen table, costing the price of a box of cereals.


----------



## Brian Coffey

purplesun said:


> Yeah, end-game earbuds made on our kitchen table, costing the price of a box of cereals.


 
 I love the idea of it. There is just so many drivers out there and so little time.


----------



## purplesun

Silly not to try, what's the worse that can happen? Couple of solder burns or someone swallows a driver, that's all.


----------



## mochill

Looks like a cool thread.


----------



## vapman

The timing of this thread is great. I'm looking to put together some 16mm driver buds... Got most of the parts picked out on ali.


----------



## Ira Delphic

So in other words it's time to learn how to solder for those of us that never tried? 
  
 http://www.explainthatstuff.com/howtorepairheadphones.html
  
 https://www.alexwhittemore.com/soldering-the-thinnest-wires-ever-conceived-headphone-modding/


----------



## gwompki

brian coffey said:


> I used RTV silicon applied with a tooth pick to stick the fronts on the shells. For a more permanent solution I had thought about Plasti Weld like what I used on model cars.


 
 Ha! I'm glad you guys brought this up.  I assumed they just sort of snapped on!
  
 I would think it would be good to use something that could be removed in case you need to repair.


----------



## gwompki

brian coffey said:


> Hmmm May not be for me then. Looking for sound like Cygnus or Zen 2.0 I think. I haven't heard either...Lol


 
 I have a Zen 2.0 which I really like.  I'm not thinking I will be able to duplicate the sound, but wondering if I might be able to get close.
  
 I don't own a Cygnus but would like to hear it.  There is some discussion over on the official Cygnus thread about what sort of drivers they are and they look very much like the 16ohm yuin drivers for sale on Ali.  Labelled as Yuin SR:
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/orinigal-SR-PRO-unit-YUIN-SR-earphone-speaker-unit-white/32252667305.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.330.6mQPuC&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10065_10056_10068_10055_10067_10054_112_10069_10059_110_111_10073_10017_109_10070_108_10060_10061_10052_9999_10062_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_6&btsid=3018d9f2-4c31-4bf2-be11-da401d692d82


----------



## gwompki

ira delphic said:


> So in other words it's time to learn how to solder for those of us that never tried?
> 
> http://www.explainthatstuff.com/howtorepairheadphones.html
> 
> https://www.alexwhittemore.com/soldering-the-thinnest-wires-ever-conceived-headphone-modding/


 
 Yep!  Time to jump on the bandwagon!
  
 I would think experimenting on some more inexpensive buds (ie recabling a Monk +) would get you sufficient practice to build your own.


----------



## Brian Coffey

gwompki said:


> Yep!  Time to jump on the bandwagon!
> 
> I would think experimenting on some more inexpensive buds (ie recabling a Monk +) would get you sufficient practice to build your own.


 
 Yes practice and patience is the 2 requirements. Easy to melt these small wires and drivers. So use as low of heat as you can get away with.


----------



## purplesun

Here's my DIY loot so far:
  
 Yuin look-alike shells (no logo):
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-headset-accessories-14-8MM-headphones-shell-Double-the-sound-hole-Cotton-has-been-posted/2046553820.html
  
 NAOI L-plugged cables (tinned ends):
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/123/32684351750.html
  
 Metal 3.5mm L-plug connectors (very good quality):
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-Hot-Sale-1pcs-Golden-plated-3-5mm-Stereo-3-Pole-Male-Plug-90-degree-Audio/32658914527.html
  
 Metal MMCX connectors (for IEMs):
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Metal-Shell-Diy-Parts-for-Shure-SE846-SE535-SE425-SE315-SE215-UE900-Earphone-Pins-20pcs/32652704517.html
  
 60 metres copper/ptfe soviet-made wires in case I want to make 4-way braid cables. Can't find original link but, IIRC, it's 30+ strands, 25AWG, 5N.


----------



## vapman

What drivers are you gonna use @purplesun ?


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> What drivers are you gonna use @purplesun ?


 
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Indonesia-produced-fever-class-16MM-ear-speaker-unit-CM3-CM5-upgraded-version-comparable-to-E888LP/32689812521.html
  
 Indonesian-made and claims to be E888 drivers. I have checked them against old photos of Sony E888 and they do look to the same construction. Plus no one else sells drivers that look exactly like this. Anyway, keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## vapman

purplesun said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Indonesia-produced-fever-class-16MM-ear-speaker-unit-CM3-CM5-upgraded-version-comparable-to-E888LP/32689812521.html
> 
> Indonesian-made and claims to be E888 drivers. I have checked them against old photos of Sony E888 and they do look to the same construction. Plus no one else sells drivers that look exactly like this. Anyway, keeping my fingers crossed.


 

 That's a really great find! Especially at under 5 bucks. I think I'll order a set and compare them to real E888's!


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> That's a really great find! Especially at under 5 bucks. I think I'll order a set and compare them to real E888's!


 
 Yup, I will be buying more, if it sounds anything close to what I remember.
 Already have a couple of old favorite songs lined up for the testing


----------



## Brian Coffey

@purplesun envious of your loot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have 1 cable right now...Lol


----------



## purplesun

brian coffey said:


> @purplesun envious of your loot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Compulsive tinkerer, I am. There is no cure for me.
 I plan to spread my evil sickness in this thread!


----------



## 93EXCivic

Nice thread. I am going to try modifying some SHE3800s first then modify some Monk+ and build my own.
  
 Have these things on the way for the SHE3800.
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-earphone-wire-Colored-cloth-earphone-cable-1-2meter/32665784544.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.oW0gub
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Earbud-headphones-horseshoe-tuning-cotton-Ear-noise-cotton-Leakproof-sound-speaker-unit-complex/2036360886.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.oW0gub
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy-headset-accessories-materials-and-tools-Earbud-headphones-Horseshoe-tuning-cotton-flat-head-Washers/2035852108.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.oW0gub


----------



## Brian Coffey

93excivic said:


> Nice thread. I am going to try modifying some SHE3800s first then modify some Monk+ and build my own.
> 
> Have these things on the way for the SHE3800.
> 
> ...


 
 This type of mod information is also what I've been looking for. I am thinking of blocking the ports on the back of my Auglamor RX-1 to see if it will keep the same clarity but increase the dynamic range. Has anyone tried this yet?


----------



## purplesun

vapman said:


> That's a really great find! Especially at under 5 bucks. I think I'll order a set and compare them to real E888's!


 

 I just remembered, my original E888 took quite long to burn-in properly. About 3 days I think, sounded pretty horrible initially.
 With the indonesian-made drivers being so old, the diaphragm material should have stiffened further, so I am going to leave it for a week to bed-in properly, or longer if need be.


----------



## fairx

subbed.. just right after I secure order 2 L plug from ebay. feeling like recabeling my Tomahwak and TY 32. hopefully this thread also show how to do proper recable. or even better tuning tips!


----------



## ozkan

Ok after a good amount of burn let's say 30 minutes, I decided to mod my Philips SHE3800 just to see whether they benefit from modding or not. 

I think it sounds better than before. My impressions out of the box was that they were inferior to the Monk but I've changed my mind and rank them over the stock Monk now. 

Now let's see if burn in would change the sound anymore.  Next step will be replacing the stock cable which is thin and probably bad quality to Audio Technica IM50 cable.


----------



## ozkan

The easiest Monk mod: 

The green thing in the middle hole is Blutac. By adding a tiny bit Blutac, the soundstage expands, the mid-bass tames a bit, more laid back mids and subbass gets more prominent.


----------



## purplesun

ozkan said:


> I decided to mod my Philips SHE3800 just to see whether they benefit from modding or not.


 
  
 Nice clean looking cover removal. No mess, no breakage.
 Any tip in how to get it done so tidily?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## ozkan

purplesun said:


> Nice clean looking cover removal. No mess, no breakage.
> Any tip in how to get it done so tidily?
> 
> Thanks.




It's so easy mate. You need to push down the front cover slowly with your finger. Don't push hard when doing it. 

Btw, I cannot believe how burn in turned these SHE3800 to an awesome sounding earbuds. No harsh treble. They are more accurate, clear and natural sounding than the Monk They are far far better than even my modded Monks. I still cannot believe what I'm hearing mate. I paired with Monk plus foams and loved it. Buy them and do the mod I've posted. You won't regret it!


----------



## purplesun

ozkan said:


> It's so easy mate. You need to push down the front cover slowly with your finger. Don't push hard when doing it.
> 
> Btw, I cannot believe how burn in turned these SHE3800 to an awesome sounding earbuds. No harsh treble. They are more accurate, clear and natural sounding than the Monk They are far far better than even my modded Monks. I still cannot believe what I'm hearing mate. I paired with Monk plus foams and loved it. Buy them and do the mod I've posted. You won't regret it!


 

 Thanks for the cover open tip.
  
 Yup, that's what happens when mass-produce moving parts get to know each other properly 
 Always worries me sick whenever I listen to an earphone during its bedding-in  phase.
 Imagine how many good earphones gets thrown away because owners thought they bought a lemon.


----------



## ozkan

purplesun said:


> Thanks for the cover open tip.
> 
> Yup, that's what happens when mass-produce moving parts get to know each other properly
> Always worries me sick whenever I listen to an earphone during its bedding-in  phase.
> Imagine how many good earphones gets thrown away because owners thought they bought a lemon.




Well I don't know which helped the sound, the mod or burn in process but I think both of them. My impressions ottb was not good and found the sound unbearable coming from VE Monk and Zen 2.0. However my impressions have suddenly changed when I tried to mod since I knew that the drivers had some potential on the first listen. Well if you ask me everyone should buy the SHE3800 and see for themselves as they are so cheap. Now I'll order a few pairs for spare and gifts to my friends.


----------



## fairx

Guys. Any recommendations for not so pricey cable for braiding? Suitable for earbud of course. I already order some L plug and have my Philips for experiment. But no cable ATM.


----------



## ozkan

fairx said:


> Guys. Any recommendations for not so pricey cable for braiding? Suitable for earbud of course. I already order some L plug and have my Philips for experiment. But no cable ATM.




New Tingo 1.25m 16 Shares 5N Silver Plated Earphone Cables Headphone Wire HIFI Headset Line for Shure pin series (535/215 etc.)
 http://s.aliexpress.com/U3INRrIB 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## purplesun

fairx said:


> Guys. Any recommendations for not so pricey cable for braiding? Suitable for earbud of course. I already order some L plug and have my Philips for experiment. But no cable ATM.


 
 I bought mine on ebay.
  
 This seller on Ali has some nice wires as well.
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1500030/search?origin=y&SearchText=teflon
  
 Not cheap though.


----------



## fairx

Thanks guys. Looking at some wire today. I guess I need to invest a little for 2-3 cable so buying a few metre is reasonable.


----------



## purplesun

fairx said:


> Thanks guys. Looking at some wire today. I guess I need to invest a little for 2-3 cable so buying a few metre is reasonable.


 
  
 More than 4 metres for a 4-way braid and double that for 8-way. And make sure to check that the wires can pass into the earbud's cable-entry hole before buying the wire.
  
 In my case, braiding is my second option. My first (and lazier) option is the NAOI pre-tinned cable with molded L-plug. That's cost about $2.60 per piece.


----------



## Brian Coffey

purplesun said:


> I bought mine on ebay.
> 
> This seller on Ali has some nice wires as well.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1500030/search?origin=y&SearchText=teflon
> ...


 
 You are right not cheap, but they sure do look nice.


----------



## gwompki

Awesome mods Ozkan. Where is the best source to buy she3800? I see only iems when I search.

As for the mods you did on them, is that just cotton and a blob of bluetac? I did similar mods to my Foster t40rp. Have not tried on any earbuds.


----------



## Brian Coffey

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10005987/1460600-philips-she3800-3-5mm-earphone for the Philips SHE3800.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I saw this on Ebay (US) - recabled MX500:
  
*"Sennheiser MX500 S DIY upgrade bass HiFi In-Ear Headphones Earbuds silver cable"*
 $28.63 blue or black silver cable
  
*Specifications*
 Plug type: 3.5mm
 Cable length : 120 cm
 Weight : 15 g
 Frequency response :16-24500 Hz
 Impedance : 32  Ohm
 Sensitivity :115 dB 
 Distortion : < 0.1 %
 Microphone: No
 Compatible : all 3.5 mm port cell phone.(i Phone ,Samsung ,LG ,HTC 
 Music : compatibility all 3.5mm jack device.(cellphone, Portable Player, ipad , Table ,computer ..)
 Colour: Black or Blue
  
 -----------------------
  
 One of the images states: High-level, high quality "sound parts" - Sound like Mx985
 I added the quotes around "sound parts" I think they mean the drivers, lol.
  
 Interesting re-cabled sennheiser's - possiblly with a different driver. Maybe there will be more local earbud DIY offerings?
 I'm not affiliated with this seller and won't be providing a direct link.


----------



## vapman

@Ira Delphic link? There are like 100 different sounding mx500 clones on AliExpress so i'd be willing to bed it is a mx500 inspired driver in a mx500 clone shell.


----------



## ozkan

gwompki said:


> Awesome mods Ozkan. Where is the best source to buy she3800? I see only iems when I search.
> 
> As for the mods you did on them, is that just cotton and a blob of bluetac? I did similar mods to my Foster t40rp. Have not tried on any earbuds.




Thank you mate. I bought them from fasttech. Yeah a small piece of foam and BlueTac. You can see the pictures that I posted earlier.

Btw, today I swapped the cable to Audio Technica IM50 stock cable and they are now my favourite earbud. I rank them over the Monk. 

You should buy and do the mod mate!


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> @Ira Delphic link? There are like 100 different sounding mx500 clones on AliExpress so i'd be willing to bed it is a mx500 inspired driver in a mx500 clone shell.


 
  
  
*32 Ohm* version:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-MX500-S-DIY-upgrade-bass-HiFi-In-Ear-Headphones-Earbuds-silver-cable/302056584157?_trksid=p2045573.c100507.m3226&_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D5cc3e2bb994048e4b42c29e7baa108e9%26pid%3D100507%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26
  
 This is the *300 Ohm* version - 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-MX500-T-DIY-upgrade-bass-HiFi-In-Ear-Headphones-Earbuds-Twisted-cable-/302090057713?var=600901251924&hash=item4655f877f1:g:nJsAAOSw8w1X7GUO


----------



## ozkan

You'd better find Edifier H180 driver and shell guys.


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> *32 Ohm* version:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-MX500-S-DIY-upgrade-bass-HiFi-In-Ear-Headphones-Earbuds-silver-cable/302056584157?_trksid=p2045573.c100507.m3226&_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D5cc3e2bb994048e4b42c29e7baa108e9%26pid%3D100507%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26
> 
> This is the *300 Ohm* version -
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sennheiser-MX500-T-DIY-upgrade-bass-HiFi-In-Ear-Headphones-Earbuds-Twisted-cable-/302090057713?var=600901251924&hash=item4655f877f1:g:nJsAAOSw8w1X7GUO




Interesting. Someone in my state, even.... All looks to be parts available on aliexpress though.


----------



## gwompki

Whoa that is really cheap. Great mod platform. I will definitely have to order a few. What size drivers do they use? That would be a perfect candidate for recabling practice. Going to order 3.

Looking forward to trying your mods Ozkan.


----------



## ozkan

gwompki said:


> Whoa that is really cheap. Great mod platform. I will definitely have to order a few. What size drivers do they use? That would be a perfect candidate for recabling practice. Going to order 3.
> 
> Looking forward to trying your mods Ozkan.




It's better to order them with the registered mail as it's fully trackable and way faster and only costs $1.12 for three pairs. They also send you a picture of your parcel. Definitely impressed with their service.


----------



## ozkan

I ordered 3 more Philips SHE3800.


----------



## gwompki

Just ordered 3 pairs as well. I'm thinking they will make good Christmas gifts.


----------



## Ira Delphic

I posted on the Earbud roundup thread - my single copy of SHE3800 doesn't work with my LG V10 and also an LG G4. I tried cleaning the plug with alcohol and still doesn't work. With y adapter and PC it works fine. Other than that the sound is impressive for what I paid and not far from the MP! 
  
 If I gently push the jack in and keep some pressure the connection is solid. Not a solution so for testing with my V10 I'll use the y connector.


----------



## endia

ozkan said:


> The easiest Monk mod:
> 
> The green thing in the middle hole is Blutac. By adding a tiny bit Blutac, the soundstage expands, the mid-bass tames a bit, more laid back mids and subbass gets more prominent.



ozkan, it maybe a good idea to use different colors of blu-tack to indicate left and right channels (i.e blue and red etc..)


----------



## purplesun

ozkan said:


> The easiest Monk mod:
> The green thing in the middle hole is Blutac. By adding a tiny bit Blutac, the soundstage expands, the mid-bass tames a bit, more laid back mids and subbass gets more prominent.


 
  
 Just grabbed some blu tac off the wall and tried it on my Monk Plus.
  
 Lower bass improvement is most noticeable, as well as tighter mid bass. Some lifting of veil around upper bass/lower mids, but seem to only affect quite a narrow band. Voices are slightly lifted, but warmth/veil still layers over the performance. Bassheads should be happy with this blu tac trick. Vapman should try this on his monk plus, which he already like in the first place. I am leaving the blu tack on, as it then requires less extreme EQing to make it more suitable to my ears.
   
Compared to TY Hi-Z 32, Monk Plus (BT-mod) has almost all of TY32's dynamics, but with more control & restraint. On most songs now, I don't find myself wanting to switch out of MP (BT-mod) as before due to the overly warm presentation (no EQ).

  
 Thanks for the tip.


----------



## ozkan

purplesun said:


> Just grabbed some blu tac off the wall and tried it on my Monk Plus.
> 
> Lower bass improvement is most noticeable, as well as tighter mid bass. Some lifting of veil around upper bass/lower mids, but seem to only affect quite a narrow band. Voices are slightly lifted, but warmth/veil still layers over the performance. Bassheads should be happy with this blu tac trick. Vapman should try this on his monk plus, which he already like in the first place. I am leaving the blu tack on, as it then requires less extreme EQing to make it more suitable to my ears.
> 
> Thanks for the tip.


 
  
 Glad to hear that it also worked for your Monk Plus. Agreed, @vapman should definitely do this mod.


----------



## Danneq

I posted this in the earbuds thread first, but it might belong here...

 Does anyone know how to "open up" plastic that has been glued together?

 I'm thinking of recabling the Aiwa V99 and I need to open them up. There is like a small lid or hatch on them that you probably are supposed to open for access to the cable, and that has been glued shut.

 It can be seen in this picture:
  

 (I found this photo online)
  
 I'm thinking of using a thin razor and cut along the edges of the lid/hatch but that might not be enough.

 The soldering part itself shouldn't be any big problem since the previous owner left about 2-3 cm of the original wire soldered onto the drivers and then I only need to remove the wire that the guy soldered on and solder the new wires onto the wires connected to the drivers.

 But getting the cable into the housing, heck even getting access to the housings, seems to be a big challenge...

 I got some good advice, like using a hair dryer to make the glue warm and easier to get through.


----------



## ozkan

danneq said:


> I posted this in the earbuds thread first, but it might belong here...
> 
> 
> Does anyone know how to "open up" plastic that has been glued together?
> ...




You should warm the cover with hairdryer first then it should easily come off. Can you take closer pictures of the area you want to open up please? That would be more helpful for us to see how they are put together.


----------



## Danneq

ozkan said:


> You should warm the cover with hairdryer first then it should easily come off. Can you take closer pictures of the area you want to open up please? That would be more helpful for us to see how they are put together.


 

 Thanks. I'll buy a new cable from Ali express and then give the hairdryer a go.

 Too late to take a new photo but I marked the lid/hatch with a red circle.

 The small hole inside the yellow circle is probably a small "thing" that locks the lid/hatch in place. It appears to have broken off on my pair of Aiwa V99 (Aiwa D9 is pretty much identical to V99 and my D9 look just fine).



 I'll try to get a picture up that I have taken myself (I found this one online...)


----------



## purplesun

danneq said:


> Does anyone know how to "open up" plastic that has been glued together?
> I'm thinking of using a thin razor and cut along the edges of the lid/hatch but that might not be enough.
> I got some good advice, like using a hair dryer to make the glue warm and easier to get through.


 
  
 Probably not relevant in this case. If it's for items that are impervious to water damage, than a couple of hot water soaks should get normal adhesives to be quite pliable. But, for your case, it will be a completely dead driver. Same theory as the hair dryer but better heat transfer. Maybe an idea for other applications.


----------



## ozkan

danneq said:


> Thanks. I'll buy a new cable from Ali express and then give the hairdryer a go.
> 
> 
> Too late to take a new photo but I marked the lid/hatch with a red circle.
> ...




I guess you need to remove the ring around the driver and then you'll be able to reach the cables. The cable should be able to come off from the shell after soldering. 

Look what I've found. 

http://www.imp3.net/article-29519-2.html
http://www.jd-bbs.com/thread-4991516-1-1.html


----------



## Danneq

Thanks for the links.

 Actually I did open the front up. I could see that the previous owner cut the wires from the driver (about 2 cm) and then soldered the new cable onto the old wires from the driver.

 But it seems like he used glue to get the new cable to become stuck inside the housings. I think I'll first cut the wires to the driver to remove them and then use a hairdryer to warm up the glue and try to open up the lid/hatch. Then try to pull out the old cable.

 I think I will need access to the lid/hatch when I insert the new cable and pull the cable through the stress relief.

 Once the new cable has been inserted into the housing it's an easy job to solder the wires to the old wires on the driver. I would prefer to not solder directly on the drivers so I will do it the same way as the previous owner...

 I looked through links earlier in this thread. Here's a good one:
http://www.explainthatstuff.com/headphones.html


----------



## Danneq

In the worst case I could put the drivers in another housing, but I want the Aiwa drivers to stay in Aiwa housings, so that's not an option...


----------



## purplesun

danneq said:


> In the worst case I could put the drivers in another housing, but I want the Aiwa drivers to stay in Aiwa housings, so that's not an option...


 
  
 Looks like there's a thin groove along the hatch perimeter, where it seals shut.
  
 Use a needle as applicator and run it, dipped with cleaning alcohol or nail polish remover, along the hatch perimeter groove. That should breakdown the adhesive quite fast, if it makes contact.
  
 WARNING!! Check first, that the alcohol or nail polish remover does not react with AIWA case plastic!!


----------



## ozkan

danneq said:


> Thanks for the links.
> 
> 
> Actually I did open the front up. I could see that the previous owner cut the wires from the driver (about 2 cm) and then soldered the new cable onto the old wires from the driver.
> ...


 

I would never blow hot air to the shell without removing the driver since there is a high risk of damaging the driver. Don't worry mate, soldering the driver is so easy if your hands don't shake. You can practice on some cheap or broken earphones and after some experience you can solder your Aiwa V99.


----------



## ozkan

```

```



purplesun said:


> Looks like there's a thin groove along the hatch perimeter, where it seals shut.
> 
> Use a needle as applicator and run it, dipped with cleaning alcohol or nail polish remover, along the hatch perimeter groove. That should breakdown the adhesive quite fast, if it makes contact.
> 
> WARNING!! Check first, that the alcohol or nail polish remover does not react with AIWA case plastic!!




The best way is warming the case and it will come off easily. I got this information from my friend who repairs earphones/headphones and IEMs.


----------



## Danneq

Thanks for your help.

 I'll go the hairdryer route first (and of course remove the drivers first!)

 A guy here on Head fi sent me a photo of his friend's Aiwa V99 where you can see the lid/hatch removed.


----------



## Danneq

Did some unplanned soldering on one of the Aiwa V99 drivers yesterday. I opened the front up to check out how the cable might be removed (there seems to be some glue applied behind the drivers as well - the hairdryer will have to do a lot of work!).
 When I gently pulled out the left driver the negative wire came off. Left channel had been slightly more quiet since I got the V99, so it must have just been waiting to happen.

 I thought, "What the heck?, Why not give it a try?", and took out my soldering iron. I carefully heated the soldering on the driver and managed to push the wire down and make it stick. I could hear sound out of the left channel, so I put everything together but when I listened more I noticed that the wire wasn't making perfect contact with the driver since sound was coming and going in on the left side. So I opened the left side up again and heated the soldering with the iron until the wire came off. I did it again so that the wire was more stuck than before. This time it sounded good and now the volume balance between left and right is perfect.

 Phew!

 I have soldered replacement plugs before but never directly on a driver.


----------



## gwompki

That's great! No better way to learn than to jump right in eh?


----------



## vapman

Good stuff Danneq! Really glad to hear that your Aiwa are singing again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I highly recommend the *Sony Ericsson HPM-62 *for recabling practice, at least while they're still under $5 shipped a piece btw!


----------



## Danneq

vapman said:


> Good stuff Danneq! Really glad to hear that your Aiwa are singing again
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was actually planning on praticing on a pair of broken Sony MDR-E484 (left driver dead). Of course it's more daring to practice on a $300+ vintage earbud to be able to solder on a $400+ vintage earbud...


----------



## Ira Delphic

What are the cost of components for high end earbuds? My observations, assumptions and questions. Please correct me where I'm wrong:
  
*Cable* - cables can cost over $100 but like the monster cable there's really not much difference between a $10 silver coated cable and a $100 cable aside from aesthetics, etc. 
  
*Shell* - generic earbud plastic shell cost around $1. 
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/DIY-ear-ear-PK1-2-3-4-shell-cavity-fever-ears-headphones-hifi-headphones-bass-PK/323026_32348950463.html
 Custom injection molding costs much more and requires a big production run to get the per unit cost down. With 3D printing,  custom plastic shells can be created for 10x the cost of mass produced is my guesstimate.
  
*Sound dampening material* - for tuning, less than $1 per earbud?
  
*Driver* - the most important component. Very good single dynamic drivers cost $10 or less.
 In high end earbuds specialty drivers are used. Do makers of high end DIY earbuds design and manufacture their own drivers? 
 Manufacturing - in low quantities, the cost must be significant.
  
*Tuning and design* - perhaps the most important attribute and difficult to put quantify in terms of cost.
  
*Resistors and Capacitors *- I'm not sure if used in earbuds.
  
*Manufacturing* - the cost for low volume custom /DIY it must be high relative to component cost. But for DIY projects there is no "cost" because building the earbud is actually fun, hence this thread.


----------



## gwompki

So I have three Philips she3800 inbound along with 4 cables, couple of drivers, and some shells. Thinking I will experiment on swapping the cable on the Philips first before I tackle the others. I'm sure it will be at least 3 weeks before any of it shows up though.


----------



## Danneq

ira delphic said:


> What are the cost of components for high end earbuds? My observations, assumptions and questions. Please correct me where I'm wrong:
> 
> *Cable* - cables can cost over $100 but like the monster cable there's really not much difference between a $10 silver coated cable and a $100 cable aside from aesthetics, etc.
> 
> ...




Regarding drivers, I know that Blox make their own drivers. At least for the high end earbuds such as TM7. The new upcoming flagship earbud will also have a driver specifically made by the people at Blox (I think there aren't that many working there which is why they only release small batches of their earbuds).
Blox uses cheap cables that do the job but nothing more.

Edimun V3 which is sold by Bengkel Macro in Indonesia uses an Edifier driver that is retuned so that it sounds different. The cable is quite nice and much better than the ones that Blox use.


----------



## vapman

If anyone's interested, found a store that sells KZ pre-fab cable in either qty's of 1, 5 or 10. However, 2x 5 is cheaper than 1x 10...
  
 Having had some KZ stuff, the wire can be somewhat sticky, but it seems to be well built and sound good.
  
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/5Pcs-lot-KZ-1-2m-Gold-plated-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-LC-OFC-56-Strands/32693046349.html


----------



## endia

vapman said:


> If anyone's interested, found a store that sells KZ pre-fab cable in either qty's of 1, 5 or 10. However, 2x 5 is cheaper than 1x 10...
> 
> Having had some KZ stuff, the wire can be somewhat sticky, but it seems to be well built and sound good.
> 
> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/5Pcs-lot-KZ-1-2m-Gold-plated-3-5mm-3-pole-Jack-LC-OFC-56-Strands/32693046349.html


 
 vapman, you may consider these too, terminations looks good..
 my order has not come yet..


----------



## springbay

I did the @ozkan SHE3800 mod tonight. Didn't have any Bluetack at home. Instead used Loctite and some unscientifically measured and roughly cut cotton ball fiber.The result is great. The bass gets tamed and the highs suddenly appear. Better detail and slightly wider sound stage. This compared to the stock ones. Both with Monk plus thin foams.
  
 Makes you wonder why we pay top dollar for some buds, when a mod that the a three year old kid (as well as a middle aged guy with no previous experience) can perform at the sofa table while sipping a glass of wine can make such a difference. Three year old kids should not sip wine tho.
  
 I'm all ready for more bud mods to try out! I should try it out my FAAEALs. I don't enjoy the muffled stock sound on them, but I only have one of each, so I can't compare if I do the mod.
  
*Edit*. One should probably not use Loctite for modding ear buds. I read the warning label today, and it says "May cause sensitisation by skin contact ... avoid contact with skin and eyes". Probably not the best product to use in you ears. 
  
 I'll just get me some Bluetack instead.


----------



## Danneq

springbay said:


> I did the @ozkan SHE3800 mod tonight. Didn't have any Bluetack at home. Instead used Loctite and some unscientifically measured and roughly cut cotton ball fiber.The result is great. The bass gets tamed and the highs suddenly appear. Better detail and slightly wider sound stage. This compared to the stock ones. Both with Monk plus thin foams.
> 
> Makes you wonder why we pay top dollar for some buds, when a mod that the a three year old kid (as well as a middle aged guy with no previous experience) can perform at the sofa table while sipping a glass of wine can make such a difference. Three year old kids should not sip wine tho.
> 
> I'm all ready for more bud mods to try out! I should try it out my FAAEALs. I don't enjoy the muffled stock sound on them, but I only have one of each, so I can't compare if I do the mod.


 


 You crazy göteborgare! Mixing wine and earbud modding!   


 I'm almost tempted to get the SHE3800, but then I might find it difficult to justify hunting down TOTL earbuds...

 By the way, has anyone opened up a pair of Blox earbuds? I suppose the front piece is not glued firmly? I bought 2 cables to recable my pair of Aiwa HP V99. One braided black cable and one that looks a lot like the one on black Tomahawk. Blox TM7 has got a pretty cheap cable so I was thinking that I might recable that as well with the cable that is left after I've done the Aiwas. Haven't decided on the Blox yet though...


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> By the way, has anyone opened up a pair of Blox earbuds? I suppose the front piece is not glued firmly? I bought 2 cables to recable my pair of Aiwa HP V99. One braided black cable and one that looks a lot like the one on black Tomahawk. Blox TM7 has got a pretty cheap cable so I was thinking that I might recable that as well with the cable that is left after I've done the Aiwas. Haven't decided on the Blox yet though...


 
 I'm doing my BE5 with that KZ cable I posted soon, will take pics during the whole process (maybe a video if i can find somewhere to put the phone camera for the whole thing.) The Blox cable is just too junk to pass up replacing.


----------



## rggz

danneq said:


> You crazy göteborgare! Mixing wine and earbud modding!
> 
> 
> I'm almost tempted to get the SHE3800, but then I might find it difficult to justify hunting down TOTL earbuds...
> ...


 

 Some Russian did it with a TM7, you can check here: http://alexmod.do.am/forum/32-228-1 - if you can open a VE Monk probably you can open your Blox as well there is not much to be worried just don't put much pressure on it, do that like Jack Black, gently.


----------



## endia

endia said:


> vapman, you may consider these too, terminations looks good..
> my order has not come yet..


 
  
 lol, one day delayed edit 
  
 this is the link;
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NAOI-YK1-3-5MM-1-2M-Earphone-Cable-Accessories-Diy-Headphone-Audio-Wire-Repair-Upgrade-Single/32684351750.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.yNl26q


----------



## vapman

endia said:


> lol, one day delayed edit
> 
> this is the link;
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NAOI-YK1-3-5MM-1-2M-Earphone-Cable-Accessories-Diy-Headphone-Audio-Wire-Repair-Upgrade-Single/32684351750.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.yNl26q




Hehe, thought you were talking about something else. That looks awesome though, might order a pair.


----------



## Danneq

I wonder if anyone knows why there are 4 wires (2+ and 2-) in each cable?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Guhe-6NOCC-silver-plated-wire-high-quality-DIY-weave-Headphone-cable-Earphone-audio-cable-repair-upgrade/32747265383.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.415.7E4bmy
  
 I was thinking of buying this for the Aiwas, the black and gold goes well together with the original color scheme. But the thing with 4 wires on each side, 8 in total, made me go for other cables.


----------



## vapman

danneq said:


> I wonder if anyone knows why there are 4 wires (2+ and 2-) in each cable?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Guhe-6NOCC-silver-plated-wire-high-quality-DIY-weave-Headphone-cable-Earphone-audio-cable-repair-upgrade/32747265383.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.415.7E4bmy
> 
> I was thinking of buying this for the Aiwas, the black and gold goes well together with the original color scheme. But the thing with 4 wires on each side, 8 in total, made me go for other cables.




That is super weird. I have not seen one on ali yet with more than one pair per side...


----------



## endia

danneq said:


> I wonder if anyone knows why there are 4 wires (2+ and 2-) in each cable?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Guhe-6NOCC-silver-plated-wire-high-quality-DIY-weave-Headphone-cable-Earphone-audio-cable-repair-upgrade/32747265383.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.415.7E4bmy
> 
> I was thinking of buying this for the Aiwas, the black and gold goes well together with the original color scheme. But the thing with 4 wires on each side, 8 in total, made me go for other cables.


 
  
 Danneq, what about this for Aiwas?
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5mm-Silver-plated-high-quality-DIY-weave-Headphone-cable-Earphone-audio-cable-repair-upgrade-wire/32682243100.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.yNl26q
  
 i ordered one for these 300 ohm drivers;
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/mx500-driver-15-4mm-speaker-unit-300ohms-send-mx500-shell/32599219535.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.yNl26q


----------



## vapman

endia said:


> Danneq, what about this for Aiwas?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5mm-Silver-plated-high-quality-DIY-weave-Headphone-cable-Earphone-audio-cable-repair-upgrade-wire/32682243100.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.yNl26q
> 
> ...




Interested to know if it feels like Cygnus' cable! Looks like it.


----------



## purplesun

danneq said:


> I wonder if anyone knows why there are 4 wires (2+ and 2-) in each cable?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Guhe-6NOCC-silver-plated-wire-high-quality-DIY-weave-Headphone-cable-Earphone-audio-cable-repair-upgrade/32747265383.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.415.7E4bmy
> 
> I was thinking of buying this for the Aiwas, the black and gold goes well together with the original color scheme. But the thing with 4 wires on each side, 8 in total, made me go for other cables.


 

 It's an 8-way braid moulded into the black plastic cabling. Better noise rejection than the more common 4-way braid. I think the Tingo cable is a 4-way braid (exposed).
  
 Interesting, I think will get myself one as well. Most 8-ways are exposed and quite thick.
  
 Just short out the same colours when soldering.


----------



## Danneq

Too bad that it was the only cable with the same color scheme as V99. 

 I went with a more conservative choice since I want to try to keep close to the original colors (mainly black and possibly gold if I can find it).

 Similar to the cable on Tomahawk:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy-upgrade-Bass-stereo-headphone-wire-fever-UE-silver-plated-single-crystal-copper-Fully-compatible-High/32288521863.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.HgGc6z

 Nice braided cable:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/UE-four-shares-Weave-Single-crystal-copper-wire-UE-wire/32288225069.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.HgGc6z
  
  
 I might go with the braided one, despite silver plated not being mentioned in the title of the listing. The cable looks nice and is surely a huge step up from the current cable. If the stock cable still had been there on the Aiwas I would not have bothered with replacing, but I want to get rid of this cheap, short and crappy cable...


----------



## endia

vapman said:


> Interested to know if it feels like Cygnus' cable! Looks like it.


 
  
 looks like it but, i didn't see cygnus in hand..
 i'm passing it slowly


----------



## rggz

Ok, I think the Russian guy -aka alexmod- "fixed" the RX-1: http://alexmod.do.am/forum/32-295-1
  
_(fixed is a subjective term here, I believe there are people very satisfied with their RX-1 with the original tuning, these mods just gonna tame slightly the forward mids and turn the sound wider plus if you add cotton/foam inside of the earbud the bass will be more present as well.) _
  
  
 If I understand correctly with the google translator he says about removing one piece of the damping piece behind the vent port, so if you'll remove it from the right side then remove the left piece of damping and vice-versa. Example:

  
  
  
 This is a simple mod but immediately, I can note the mids a bit more distance, also I've added some cotton (or you can use earbud's foam as well) inside the housing it'll put more body in the mid-bass, those little modifications are very welcome to my taste and I'm very happy with the initial results looks what I was missing in this bud now is there. I will call that now RX-1 "ruski mod"! Btw, it's a bit tough open the RX-1 so be careful to not damage them.


----------



## Danneq

Do you need an axe to open the RX-1 up?


----------



## Brian Coffey

endia said:


> Danneq, what about this for Aiwas?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5mm-Silver-plated-high-quality-DIY-weave-Headphone-cable-Earphone-audio-cable-repair-upgrade-wire/32682243100.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.yNl26q
> 
> ...


 
 I think you will like those drivers.


----------



## endia

brian coffey said:


> I think you will like those drivers.


 
  
 i hope so..


----------



## springbay

endia said:


> Danneq, what about this for Aiwas?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5mm-Silver-plated-high-quality-DIY-weave-Headphone-cable-Earphone-audio-cable-repair-upgrade-wire/32682243100.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.yNl26q
> 
> ...


 
  
 Some time ago I bought another cable from the same seller:
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1-2m-DIY-Replacement-Cable-3-5mm-Silver-plated-5N-OCC-Copper-Upgraded-Wire-4-strand/2178200_32687532254.html
  
 It's a nice and soft cable. But it came without any markings on the ends.
 I ordered a cheap multimeter from FastTech, so I hope I will figure out what goes where, when it arrives.


----------



## 93EXCivic

So heat seems to be the best method to open up earbuds. But what glue is best to close them back up?
  
 I got in my cable to do a SHE3800 mod.


----------



## ozkan

93excivic said:


> So heat seems to be the best method to open up earbuds. But what glue is best to close them back up?
> 
> I got in my cable to do a SHE3800 mod.


 

You'll need nothing don't worry


----------



## endia

springbay said:


> Some time ago I bought another cable from the same seller:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1-2m-DIY-Replacement-Cable-3-5mm-Silver-plated-5N-OCC-Copper-Upgraded-Wire-4-strand/2178200_32687532254.html
> 
> It's a nice and soft cable. But it came without any markings on the ends.
> I ordered a cheap multimeter from FastTech, so I hope I will figure out what goes where, when it arrives.


 
  
 it's not that difficult..
 you can make a battery circuit like this;
 when you read +V, it is channel, if you read -V it is ground..


----------



## springbay

endia said:


> it's not that difficult..
> you can make a battery circuit like this;
> when you read +V, it is channel, if you read -V it is ground..


 

 Thanks. This is the multimeter I ordered:
 https://www.fasttech.com/p/5414400
  
 I've never used one before. But I guess I'll figure it out.


----------



## endia

springbay said:


> Thanks. This is the multimeter I ordered:
> https://www.fasttech.com/p/5414400
> 
> I've never used one before. But I guess I'll figure it out.


 
  
 that is more than enough,
 pm me anytime if you had any trouble..


----------



## 93EXCivic

ozkan said:


> You'll need nothing don't worry


 

 So just push them back together and it will hold?


----------



## Brian Coffey

Yes those just snap together I think.


----------



## ozkan

93excivic said:


> So just push them back together and it will hold?




Exactly


----------



## springbay

I bought these FAAEAL 300 ohm DIY buds some months ago (because the red cable looked nice)
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/HIFI-In-ear-Earphone-300-Ohm-DIY-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Quality-Music-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ/2178200_32704894314.html
  
 I didn't like them at all. Bloated and uncontrolled bass, poor mids and highs. They've been sitting in the box almost since arrival.
 Decided to try dampening them tonight.
 Used Monk plus thin foams. Made a cut half way through the diameter of the foams. Placed the foams in the back with tweezers and pulled them into place with the stop knob of the wire.
 This super easy mod actually makes the buds usable. The bass gets a whole lot more balanced. Not only more balanced but also very hard hitting. Almost to the point that I would say, the most engaging bass I've heard from an ear bud.
 The mod does not help as much with the already poor mids and highs. The sound stage is still narrow and the detail is just about average. Almost feels like listening to an IEM.
 But the much improved bass actually makes them very enjoyable with bass heavy rap/pop/IDM/metal. All this given that you use them with donuts (on the outside).
  
 First bud saved from early retirement!


----------



## rggz

springbay said:


> I bought these FAAEAL 300 ohm DIY buds some months ago (because the red cable looked nice)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/HIFI-In-ear-Earphone-300-Ohm-DIY-Heavy-Bass-Sound-Quality-Music-Earphones-HIFI-Earbuds-DJ/2178200_32704894314.html
> 
> I didn't like them at all. Bloated and uncontrolled bass, poor mids and highs. They've been sitting in the box almost since arrival.
> ...


 
  

 Congrats!

 My favorite mod to "open" the soundstage or at least make that a bit wider is that made by ozkan in here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/822327/diy-earbuds/30#post_12920551 - super easy, but, I didn't like the blu-tack result because tamed a bit too much the mids for my taste. Then, I've changed the blu-tack to cotton and boom! Sounds excellent with my diy 300 Ohms. I think you can try this tip, you don't need to open the earbud, just add a bit of cotton in the middle hole and adjust with a needle or something like that.


----------



## springbay

rggz said:


> Congrats! My favorite mod to "open" the soundstage at least make that a bit more wide is that by ozkan in here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/822327/diy-earbuds/30#post_12920551 - super easy, but, I didn't like the blu-tack result because tamed a bit too much the mids for my taste. Then, I've changed the blu-tack to cotton and boom! Sounds excellent with my diy 300 Ohms, I think you can try this tip, you don't need to open the earbud, just add a bit cotton in the middle hole and adjust with a needle or something like that.


 

 This so fun. Great idea with cotton in the vent holes. I didn't want to use Bluetac because the buds are transparent. The cotton in the vent holes opens up the mids/highs and sound stage surprisingly much and somewhat extends the detail. But sadly on the cost of the engaging and hard hitting bass. The result became a whole other ear bud than an hour ago. This is now a pretty well balanced ear bud that I can actually recommend to others. There only one pair tho, lol.


----------



## rggz

springbay said:


> This so fun. Great idea with cotton in the vent holes. I didn't want to use Bluetac because the buds are transparent. The cotton in the vent holes opens up the mids/highs and sound stage surprisingly much and somewhat extends the detail. But sadly on the cost of the engaging and hard hitting bass. The result became a whole other ear bud than an hour ago. This is now a pretty well balanced ear bud that I can actually recommend to others. There only one pair tho, lol.


 
  

 Cool to know your thoughts are pretty similar to mine when I did this mod as well! If you're missing some sub-bass energy now ("hitting bass" as you've called) you can continue the fun and try to add some amount of cotton inside of the housing and see what happens. I've posted that potato picture from my webcam some time ago trying to show that, as you can see it's pretty simple. 

 The only "bad" thing after modding earbuds is pretty hard choosing a pair to listen to now because all sounds so majestic, lol. I don't know if I'm in a honeymoon mood with my earbuds, so I'm controlling my enthusiasm but definitely, there are something really nice which you can do with these little mods.


----------



## gwompki

Just got my 3 pairs of she3800. Let the modding begin. 

Surprisingly, with the thick foams they come with, these are not bad! Much better than I anticipated for the price.

Also for anyone concerned about ordering from fast tech, don't be. Fast shipping and really great service.


----------



## springbay

rggz said:


> Cool to know your thoughts are pretty similar to mine when I did this mod as well! If you're missing some sub-bass energy now ("hitting bass" as you've called) you can continue the fun and try to add some amount of cotton inside of the housing and see what happens. I've posted that potato picture from my webcam some time ago trying to show that, as you can see it's pretty simple.
> 
> The only "bad" thing after modding earbuds is pretty hard choosing a pair to listen to now because all sounds so majestic, lol. I don't know if I'm in a honeymoon mood with my earbuds, so I'm controlling my enthusiasm but definitely, there are something really nice which you can do with these little mods.


 

 Yes this is eye opening for sure!
 I think I'll try to create a franken bud of the Seahf LD-3.0 400 next. The bass is too bloated and imprecise, and lacking too much detail for me in the stock version, so I'm curious to see what some cotton can do to improve them.
 My dream would be to create something that has the thundering bass of the FAAEAL 300 DIY (with the Monk plus foam dampening, before I put cotton in the center vent holes) and the clarity and detail of the Seahf LD-3.0 320. If I achieve that, it would be my ear bud end game.


----------



## rggz

springbay said:


> Yes this is eye opening for sure!
> I think I'll try to create a franken bud of the Seahf LD-3.0 400 next. The bass is too bloated and imprecise, and lacking too much detail for me in the stock version, so I'm curious to see what some cotton can do to improve them.
> My dream would be to create something that has the thundering bass of the FAAEAL 300 DIY (with the Monk plus foam dampening, before I put cotton in the center vent holes) and the clarity and detail of the Seahf LD-3.0 320. If I achieve that, it would be my ear bud end game.


 

 I hope you can find a way to do it happen! I'm testing others acoustic materials now such things like felt, dynamat, sponge, open-cell foams and gauze. Although the cotton/gauze present the most natural tuning and timbre imo, the increase of bass with dynamat inside the back of MX500 shell is pretty awesome as well! Worth a try on your adventure.


----------



## gwompki

Cracked open the she3800 today. I found that inserting an xzacto knife into the crack just barely was all it took to pop the driver off. I put a small bit of bluetac in the spot recommend by Ozkan. I also stuffed the shell with a very small amount of cotton. I stupidly did these both at the same time, so can't really speak to the effect of each mod. I will say they seem to have opened up a bit and are not nearly as harsh. The bass is improved and the mids seem to be more present. So far I haven't noticed an improvement in soundstage but that wasn't terrible to begin with. 



 Can't wait for my cables to come in so I can try recabling.

Also, does anyone know what size the drivers in these are? 14.8mm? They seem to fit my ears much better than the mx500 style.


----------



## ozkan

gwompki said:


> Cracked open the she3800 today. I found that inserting an xzacto knife into the crack just barely was all it took to pop the driver off. I put a small bit of bluetac in the spot recommend by Ozkan. I also stuffed the shell with a very small amount of cotton. I stupidly did these both at the same time, so can't really speak to the effect of each mod. I will say they seem to have opened up a bit and are not nearly as harsh. The bass is improved and the mids seem to be more present. So far I haven't noticed an improvement in soundstage but that wasn't terrible to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Great to hear that some people are enjoying my mods. 

The cable can do significant improvement if it is of high quality but there is a little chance that it will be worser than the stock one. For me ATH IM50 cable made a huge difference. 

Also the driver is only about 1mm smaller than the MX500's driver.

No, you don't have to use knife or sharp materials to open the shell. Applying a bit force with your fingers is enough. 

Btw, don't forget to burn in your new pair before finally judging the sound as they will open up a bit more.


----------



## gwompki

rggz said:


> Ok, I think the Russian guy -aka alexmod- "fixed" the RX-1: http://alexmod.do.am/forum/32-295-1
> 
> 
> _(fixed is a subjective term here, I believe there are people very satisfied with their RX-1 with the original tuning, these mods just gonna tame slightly the forward mids and turn the sound wider plus if you add cotton/foam inside of the earbud the bass will be more present as well.) _
> ...




That photo is pretty interesting. It looks like there is several layers of material in there. Are you saying you removed the piece that was circled? I really enjoy the RX1 as is for podcasts and some indie rock, but i would love to have better separation and soundstage. Do you think that mod helps?


----------



## rggz

gwompki said:


> That photo is pretty interesting. It looks like there is several layers of material in there. Are you saying you removed the piece that was circled? I really enjoy the RX1 as is for podcasts and some indie rock, but i would love to have better separation and soundstage. Do you think that mod helps?


 

 When I opened the RX-1 there were just those small damping black parts covering the vent ports. If you're talking about these layers I believe that is some mod made by alexmod. About the mod, I just did the simple one which consists removing one damping by one side (that was circled in picture) and improving a little the mid-bass with a small amount of cotton inside the shell. I won't call an improvement in separation, but with mids more controlled after modded the sensation of wider stage over narrow it's pretty evident, the mids still great just not "attention whore" as original tuning if that makes sense. 
  
 Definitely the sound after modded fit better with my taste, but if you're happy with them there is no reason to do this mod. However, it's pretty simple to undo this mod if you don't like, the boring part is opening the RX-1... I've needed some isopropyl alcohol to help melt the glue and some tons of patience.


----------



## gwompki

rggz said:


> When I opened the RX-1 there were just those small damping black parts covering the vent ports. If you're talking about these layers I believe that is some mod made by alexmod. About the mod, I just did the simple one which consists removing one damping by one side (that was circled in picture) and improving a little the mid-bass with a small amount of cotton inside the shell. I won't call an improvement in separation, but with mids more controlled after modded the sensation of wider stage over narrow it's pretty evident, the mids still great just not "attention whore" as original tuning if that makes sense.
> 
> 
> Definitely the sound after modded fit better with my taste, but if you're happy with them there is no reason to do this mod. However, it's pretty simple to undo this mod if you don't like, the boring part is opening the RX-1... I've needed some isopropyl alcohol to help melt the glue and some tons of patience.




Yeah not looking forward to opeing these! Might take a crack at it later. What kind of glue did you use to seal them back up?


----------



## rggz

gwompki said:


> Yeah not looking forward to opeing these! Might take a crack at it later. What kind of glue did you use to seal them back up?


 

 I just use a blob of epoxy when I think the mod is good enough and there is no reason to open again haha.


----------



## gwompki

What are the best values in cables right now? I have ordered 4 of these which seems to be the cheapest for a braided cable;


 http://s.aliexpress.com/Bz2eqM3e 

How much cheaper would it be to buy bulk cable and connectors? I haven't done much pricing on that yet.


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> How much cheaper would it be to buy bulk cable and connectors? I haven't done much pricing on that yet.


 
 This is  certainly the cheapest option, if you're not just doing a couple cables. If you're not doing that many than the premade ones can be a pretty good deal.
 you can spend less than $30 and have enough cable to do several hundred earbuds at any comfortable cable length.... and you can pick any price range of connectors you want.


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> This is  certainly the cheapest option, if you're not just doing a couple cables. If you're not doing that many than the premade ones can be a pretty good deal.
> you can spend less than $30 and have enough cable to do several hundred earbuds at any comfortable cable length.... and you can pick any price range of connectors you want.




Any sources or varieties you would recommend? I wouldn't mind to make a few sets with 3M cables to reach across the room .


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> Any sources or varieties you would recommend? I wouldn't mind to make a few sets with 3M cables to reach across the room
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry, nothing I know of in particular. There are tons and tons of Aliexpress stores selling coils of nice oxygen free copper and silver plated copper wire advertised as headphone wire. You could also use something like this if you wanted some fancy stuff. but it's all copper... http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> Sorry, nothing I know of in particular. There are tons and tons of Aliexpress stores selling coils of nice oxygen free copper and silver plated copper wire advertised as headphone wire. You could also use something like this if you wanted some fancy stuff. but it's all copper... http://www.doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2




Thanks, I'm going to explore that option. I'm probably getting way ahead of myself since I haven't even recabled a single set.


----------



## purplesun

I found these silicon rings that came with some other earphones that I had. On the AUglamour RX-1, together with the full foam, the mid-bass & upper bass has become stronger. And generally a louder sound from a better seal.
  
 These on Ali should do as well:
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Rubber-ring-for-earbuds-15mm-16mm-MX980-MX985-OMX985-MX880/923848_32324321353.html
  
 I think, generally, anything that can widen the RX-1's outer diameter by about 1 mm should do was well.


----------



## fairx

Hi guys 

My surven L plug arrived today. Pretty bare bones. I wonder what sheath are suitable to hold the wire together. Some kind of epoxy or just straight shrink wrap? I have some shrink wrap but they're too thin. Others mind sharing their project pic? 

My cable on its way but it already terminated with plug. I'm taking time collecting raw material first. After this I'll order some wire


----------



## awaysooner

Looks like Oyaide style plug, so you can get these end piece. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy-3-5mm-headphone-plug-tail-hole-protective-sleeve-Fever-wire-braided-tail-protection-Repair-applicable/2035088447.html?spm=2114.12010108.1000013.6.rumif7&scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=8fea1fba-897a-4415-b339-e0c01c2b5b12&tpp=1
  
 More waiting from China for you. LOL


----------



## fairx

awaysooner said:


> Looks like Oyaide style plug, so you can get these end piece. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/diy-3-5mm-headphone-plug-tail-hole-protective-sleeve-Fever-wire-braided-tail-protection-Repair-applicable/2035088447.html?spm=2114.12010108.1000013.6.rumif7&scm=1007.13339.33317.0&pvid=8fea1fba-897a-4415-b339-e0c01c2b5b12&tpp=1
> 
> More waiting from China for you. LOL


Awesome. Thanks. And using the keywords from the page I found even more alternative.


----------



## awaysooner

fairx said:


> Awesome. Thanks. And using the keywords from the page I found even more alternative.


 
  
 Please do share the posts you found.


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> Hi guys
> 
> My surven L plug arrived today. Pretty bare bones. I wonder what sheath are suitable to hold the wire together. Some kind of epoxy or just straight shrink wrap? I have some shrink wrap but they're too thin. Others mind sharing their project pic?
> 
> My cable on its way but it already terminated with plug. I'm taking time collecting raw material first. After this I'll order some wire




Just heatshrink IMO. Glue usually makes repair a pain which strongly outweighs the benefits of using it during construction.


----------



## gwompki

Have done some testing on my monk plus tonight. First I tried the Ozkan mod of bluetac on the back of the headshell. That focused the bass slightly. Next I filled the headshell with cotton, but that made things too muffled. Next I removed the thick foam tuning material but that made the highs way too shrill. Next I added some cotton where the tuning material was previously and blocked out the center vents with blue tac to try and be the bass up. I was not thrilled with the results so took the cotton out and replaced with thin monk foam material. 

So far I'm liking this a lot. I don't like it more than stock monk plus but it definitely has increased sound stage with a fairly obvious v shape. Pretty fun sound for rock which is all I have tested it with thus far. Apologies for my unsightly fingernails lol.


----------



## purplesun

This is technically not a DIY-mod, but I think it fits here better than the main earbud section.
  
 For Monk Plus owners that find MP to be too veiled or overly warm, try this with your player EQ.
 -  At about 250hz to 350hz, drop the EQ by 3 to 5db. That's all.
  
 I've tried this on a few MPs and players. The veil recedes quite a bit, while other parts of the spectrum brightens.
 IMHO, it's worthy of a trial if you have a dark-sounding Monk Plus.


----------



## gwompki

Disregard... misunderstood comment above.


----------



## fairx

awaysooner said:


> Please do share the posts you found.


 
  
 I found it last night using AE apps. this one I found today, maybe not same I have to check later
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/4Pcs-DIY-3-5MM-Tail-Socket-Plug-For-Diameter-4mm-Series-3-5mm-Tail-Hole-Protective/731439_32656638894.html
  
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5mm-headphone-plug-tail-mouth-protective-sleeve/2043396952.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000010.2.jSKjAA&scm=1007.13438.37934.0&pvid=191c28a3-cecf-4131-9e76-2c5c112e75d1&tpp=1
  
 my keywords are *3.5mm *& *tail. *might not be the same but perhpas usefull for others


----------



## ozkan

gwompki said:


> Have done some testing on my monk plus tonight. First I tried the Ozkan mod of bluetac on the back of the headshell. That focused the bass slightly. Next I filled the headshell with cotton, but that made things too muffled. Next I removed the thick foam tuning material but that made the highs way too shrill. Next I added some cotton where the tuning material was previously and blocked out the center vents with blue tac to try and be the bass up. I was not thrilled with the results so took the cotton out and replaced with thin monk foam material.
> 
> So far I'm liking this a lot. I don't like it more than stock monk plus but it definitely has increased sound stage with a fairly obvious v shape. Pretty fun sound for rock which is all I have tested it with thus far. Apologies for my unsightly fingernails lol.




Actually Monk and Monk plus will sound both different when you use the same materials. Instead of bluetac I'd recommend a small amount of cotton for Monk plus and in my opinion extra foam is useless.


----------



## gwompki

ozkan said:


> Actually Monk and Monk plus will sound both different when you use the same materials. Instead of bluetac I'd recommend a small amount of cotton for Monk plus and in my opinion extra foam is useless.




I removed the original foam that was already there. I tried cotton in the headshell as stuffing as well as around the driver only. With the original foam removed I didn't care for either of these. First was too muffled and the second was too much of a treble spike.. When I still had the original tuning material in place the cotton made much less of a difference. When I put the monk foam there in place of the original material, I immediately preferred the results.

Granted I did not measure them and it was just my ears, but that is what has sounded best to me so far  

Ozkan do you have a measurement rig? I'm thinking about building one, but not sure what is required for a budget setup.


----------



## gwompki

Still amazed at how good the modified Philips SHE3800 sound even compared to my modified monk plus.  Really incredible.  I need to do some more work to bring up the mids back up a touch on the modified monk plus.  Back to the lab!


----------



## rggz

gwompki said:


> Still amazed at how good the modified Philips SHE3800 sound even compared to my modified monk plus.  Really incredible.*  I need to do some more work to bring up the mids back up a touch on the modified monk plus.  Back to the lab!*


 

 In my case, I noted the mids muddy when I've tried damping the middle hole with blu-tack, after changing this material to cotton (in the middle hole) the mids and stage improved remarkably well.


----------



## gwompki

rggz said:


> In my case, I noted the mids muddy when I've tried damping the middle hole with blu-tack, after changing this material to cotton (in the middle hole) the mids and stage improved remarkably well.


 
 Interesting...do you have a photo of how you did it?  I was shoving a smallish wad of cotton into the whole shell.  I'd be curious to see how you covered the middle hole only with cotton.  Did you just use a toothpick?


----------



## rggz

gwompki said:


> Interesting...do you have a photo of how you did it?  I was shoving a smallish wad of cotton into the whole shell.  I'd be curious to see how you covered the middle hole only with cotton.  Did you just use a toothpick?


 

 I have made it with a needle just to adjust the cotton into the hole (you don't even need to open the earbud to do this), but I bet with a toothpick will work fine as well.

  Atm, I'm not at home so I did this simple picture trying to show:


----------



## gwompki

rggz said:


> I have made it with a needle just to adjust the cotton into the hole (you don't even need to open the earbud to do this), but I bet with a toothpick will work fine as well.
> 
> Atm, I'm not at home so I did this simple picture trying to show:


 
 Thanks for sharing! I will give that a shot this evening hopefully.


----------



## gwompki

Recabled the SHE3800 tonight


----------



## Brian Coffey

gwompki said:


> Recabled the SHE3800 tonight


 
 Can you tell a difference?


----------



## gwompki

brian coffey said:


> Can you tell a difference?




Yes but I'm not sure if it's for the better which is why I haven't commented yet. I really liked the way I had it sounding prior to changing the cable. 

Once recabled I put the blue tac back in along with the cotton. Thought it was odd at first because it seemed as if I'd lost a ton of volume. Took the cotton out and the volume seemed to return to normal. I now seem to be hearing a good bit more low end than previously...not an obnoxious amount...in fact it sounds quite good...but not the same. I doubt the cable itself would cause that much of a difference but I wondered if it might have something to do with the fact that the knot in the cable is much larger than the previous cable and it is blocking air from escaping down the stem.

 Will gave my brain time to adjust before I comment anymore on the sound quality.

Btw I did a continuity test on the cable to check if red was right and green was left since you mentioned that was a problem with yours. I had the same situation...green is right red is left


----------



## Brian Coffey

gwompki said:


> Yes but I'm not sure if it's for the better which is why I haven't commented yet. I really liked the way I had it sounding prior to changing the cable.
> 
> Once recabled I put the blue tac back in along with the cotton. Thought it was odd at first because it seemed as if I'd lost a ton of volume. Took the cotton out and the volume seemed to return to normal. I now seem to be hearing a good bit more low end than previously...not an obnoxious amount...in fact it sounds quite good...but not the same. I doubt the cable itself would cause that much of a difference but I wondered if it might have something to do with the fact that the knot in the cable is much larger than the previous cable and it is blocking air from escaping down the stem.
> 
> ...


 
 Did you check impedance before and after. Maybe that changed with the cable.


----------



## gwompki

brian coffey said:


> Did you check impedance before and after. Maybe that changed with the cable.




Yeah it went up by like 2 ohms. I assumed that wasn't significant enough to make an impact but maybe it was.


----------



## endia

gwompki said:


> Yeah it went up by like 2 ohms. I assumed that wasn't significant enough to make an impact but maybe it was.


 
  
 do you measuring cable only impedance or phone impedance with cable?
 and how do you measuring it? with dmm?
 thanks..


----------



## gwompki

endia said:


> do you measuring cable only impedance or phone impedance with cable?
> and how do you measuring it? with dmm?
> thanks..


 
  
 Yeah I used a DMM and measured the impedance with the original cable which was right at 32 ohms, maybe slightly higher.  I wish I had written it down so I'm going off of memory.  Soldered on the new cable and it measured 33.8 ohms.


----------



## endia

gwompki said:


> Yeah I used a DMM and measured the impedance with the original cable which was right at 32 ohms, maybe slightly higher.  I wish I had written it down so I'm going off of memory.  Soldered on the new cable and it measured 33.8 ohms.


 
  
 thanks a lot,
 i don't think it makes any sense unless a dramatic change in total impedance..


----------



## gwompki

endia said:


> thanks a lot,
> i don't think it makes any sense unless a dramatic change in total impedance..


 
  
 I agree.  I really think it has more to do with the blockage of air flow down the stem in terms of what changed the sound.  The knot is much larger than previously due to the thickness of cable insulation.  I have another set of the SHE3800 unmodified, that I will try to compare to this evening.  
  
 I think in terms of cable quality, this is a definite step up in aesthetics and  slightly thicker gauge than what it had previously.  However in comparison to the monk plus cable, it is MUCH thinner (copper itself, not insulation).


----------



## Brian Coffey

I don't believe that impedance change would be enough for that kind of change.


----------



## Ira Delphic

Anyone in US with an LG V10 and into modding? I'll send you a SHE3800 (got it from Fastech) for free!
  
 Mine doesn't get a good connection with my V10 which is the only player I would use it with. With an extension cable it works fine with my V10 but I have enough low cost earbuds and more on the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I'm interested if the same happens with your V10.


----------



## gwompki

brian coffey said:


> I don't believe that impedance change would be enough for that kind of change.


 
 Yeah I think the lesson here is small changes in amount/type/position of materials in the headphone shell can have pretty significant effects on the sound.  I read the Fostex T50RP modding threads for a while and people went to great lengths to weigh things like wadding, modeling clay, etc.  There is a wealth of information over there...I imagine many of the same principles could apply at a much smaller scale for ear buds.


----------



## gwompki

ira delphic said:


> Anyone in US with an LG V10 and into modding? I'll send you a SHE3800 (got it from Fastech) for free!
> 
> Mine doesn't get a good connection with my V10 which is the only player I would use it with. With an extension cable it works fine with my V10 but I have enough low cost earbuds and more on the way :tongue_smile: .  I'm interested if the same happens with your V10.




I dont have a v10, but am seriously considering the V20. I don't think I've heard too many comments on the V10 from the ear bud group. Do you like it? From what I have heard on headfi there doesn't seem to be any peceived significant improvement on the v20.

 If you want the she3800 recabled some day let me know and I'll be happy to tackle that for you.


----------



## Ira Delphic

It's yours! I also have a pair of older KZ iem if helpful to practice on. The quality of the jack and cable is ok but sound is nothing special.

PM your mailing address.


----------



## gwompki

ira delphic said:


> It's yours! I also have a pair of older KZ iem if helpful to practice on. The quality of the jack and cable is ok but sound is nothing special.
> 
> PM your mailing address.




That is very kind of you...I will be happy to recable it for you and send it back. I wasn't looking for any freebies


----------



## Ira Delphic

It's all yours. But who knows, down the road I may need help recabling something. Not a skill I can take on at the moment.


----------



## gwompki

ira delphic said:


> It's all yours. But who knows, down the road I may need help recabling something. Not a skill I can take on at the moment.




That is very kind of you. I will be happy to cover the shipping charges.

PMing my address now.


----------



## awaysooner

Tried blocking the middle hole on my monk plus and didn't like the sound. I then tried blocking the two small holes on the side, it actually much improved. The mid is clearer, separation seems improved. So I did a permanent solution and use 2 part eproxy to seal it. I use painter's tape to seal the outside first so it doesn't drip through. I like the sound a lot.


----------



## gwompki

awaysooner said:


> Tried blocking the middle hole on my monk plus and didn't like the sound. I then tried blocking the two small holes on the side, it actually much improved. The mid is clearer, separation seems improved. So I did a permanent solution and use 2 part eproxy to seal it. I use painter's tape to seal the outside first so it doesn't drip through. I like the sound a lot.




Interesting to hear...I will give that a shot. 

I seem to have killed the left driver on my set of test monks. Need to reflow the solder joints and hope that resolves the issue.


----------



## awaysooner

gwompki said:


> awaysooner said:
> 
> 
> > Tried blocking the middle hole on my monk plus and didn't like the sound. I then tried blocking the two small holes on the side, it actually much improved. The mid is clearer, separation seems improved. So I did a permanent solution and use 2 part eproxy to seal it. I use painter's tape to seal the outside first so it doesn't drip through. I like the sound a lot.
> ...



I've broke one or two. That's why I always buy spare if I mod. Over Heating is usually the cause. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gwompki

awaysooner said:


> I've broke one or two. That's why I always buy spare if I mod. Over Heating is usually the cause.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Surprisingly I haven't even put the soldering iron to the monk plus yet. It all started after putting probably too much cotton into the shell. Think I might have put too much stress on one of the leads.


----------



## vapman

Well after a day and night full of Halloween partying I thought, what was a better way to end my night (morning) than finally recable my Sony HPM-62? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 So, inital impressions, I understand why ClieOS put his recabled HPM 62 where he did. It has very nice soundstage and above average detail but is bright and forward. Gonna mess with it some more.
  

  
  
@BloodyPenguin already has dibs to be the first person (After me) to try them out! My only complaint is the shells had these built in guides for the stupidly thin cable, so I broke them off and it turned out to be one of the clips, so there's a little electrial tape there now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Took like 5 minutes to do, everyone should be DIYing buds! It's too easy.


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> Well after a day and night full of Halloween partying I thought, what was a better way to end my night (morning) than finally recable my Sony HPM-62?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Looks good!


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> Looks good!


 
 Thanks bro! They sound surprisingly great too. For under 5 bucks, these are a great candidate for recabling. Especially since the stock cable is impossible to use unless you have some 10 year old Sony Ericsson phone.
  
 Also, to save you/other people searching. Yes it is the side of the driver with the red dot that's the hot lead. I had to pry this info out of Mr. ClieOS (wasn't that hard. )


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> Thanks bro! They sound surprisingly great too. For under 5 bucks, these are a great candidate for recabling. Especially since the stock cable is impossible to use unless you have some 10 year old Sony Ericsson phone.
> 
> Also, to save you/other people searching. Yes it is the side of the driver with the red dot that's the hot lead. I had to pry this info out of Mr. ClieOS (wasn't that hard. )




I'm sure it has been said before but where can they be had for $5?


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> I'm sure it has been said before but where can they be had for $5?


 
 Only one left at the store I bought mine from months ago..... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Ericsson-C510-K330-Elm-HPM-62-Stereo-Earphones-Headset-Headphones-Black-OEM-/291744265657?hash=item43ed5035b9:g:u-oAAOSw~oFXGOMb
  
Then there's one in Cyprus.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Ericsson-HPM-62-Stereo-Portable-Handsfree-/172368016561?hash=item2821ef34b1:g:cekAAOSwpdpVWYtQ Already claimed?! you guys are quick...
  
 And a bunch in the UK.


----------



## 93EXCivic

gwompki said:


> I dont have a v10, but am seriously considering the V20. I don't think I've heard too many comments on the V10 from the ear bud group. Do you like it? From what I have heard on headfi there doesn't seem to be any peceived significant improvement on the v20.
> 
> If you want the she3800 recabled some day let me know and I'll be happy to tackle that for you.


 
 I have a V20 but I never had a V10. Coming from a iPhone 5S.
  
 I am loving it (still working on figuring out how to work everything coming from iOS) but it sounds incredible and has a great camera.


----------



## gwompki

93excivic said:


> I have a V20 but I never had a V10. Coming from a iPhone 5S.
> 
> I am loving it (still working on figuring out how to work everything coming from iOS) but it sounds incredible and has a great camera.




That's great to hear. Did you get the free b&o IEMs? Curious how they are.


----------



## gwompki

Anyone ever cabled a Yuin PK1 style shell? The diameter of the hole that the cable feeds into is so small I cant get it go through unless I strip the ends way back. But then I'm left with no strain relief.


----------



## 93EXCivic

gwompki said:


> That's great to hear. Did you get the free b&o IEMs? Curious how they are.


 

 No. I wish they had of.


----------



## gwompki

93excivic said:


> No. I wish they had of.




Just making sure you know the offer I'm referring to, so just in case:

http://www.lgv20launchpromo.com/redemption

Not sure if you are in the US or not but that's a free $150 OEM.


----------



## gwompki

300ohm Diy bud using parts Brian Coffey told me about. 

The soldering job on the right bud was a mess! I had to snip the pre-tinned ends due to mangling them trying to get through the pk1 shell. Then I found out that it is really difficult to tin this type of wire. It's a big ugly smash of wire on the contact but the joint seems to be stable for now. Will probably re do it soon.


----------



## 93EXCivic

gwompki said:


> Just making sure you know the offer I'm referring to, so just in case:
> 
> http://www.lgv20launchpromo.com/redemption
> 
> Not sure if you are in the US or not but that's a free $150 OEM.


 

 Awesome!!! Thanks for letting me know. I will do that today.


----------



## Brian Coffey

gwompki said:


> 300ohm Diy bud using parts @Brian Coffey told me about.
> 
> The soldering job on the right bud was a mess! I had to snip the pre-tinned ends due to mangling them trying to get through the pk1 shell. Then I found out that it is really difficult to tin this type of wire. It's a big ugly smash of wire on the contact but the joint seems to be stable for now. Will probably re do it soon.


 
 So how do they sound ? ...Mine bit the dust...Voice coil separated from the driver


----------



## gwompki

brian coffey said:


> So how do they sound ? ...Mine bit the dust...Voice coil separated from the driver




Ouch...that just happened to a pair of monk plus I was modifying...too much pressure on the back of the driver.

Reserving judgment on them for a while. So far I have found they sound the best with foam rings.

Definitely not a zen killer but pretty damn good with enough power.


----------



## gwompki

I got the pk1 clone put together this afternoon. I had to bore out the wire channels with a drill bit in order to get the wire through.



Also I found the magnets in these and the 300 ohm drivers to be powerful enough that they needed to be held firmly in place. The magnetic force caused them to fly up and stick to the iron lol. Here is my makeshift vice:



Here it is all put together


----------



## gwompki

Also I had a question for anyone who might better understand the physical properties of copper as it relates to headphone/speaker cable.

I noticed the monk plus cable seems to be a good bit thicker and possibly has more cores than the braided cables I've been using. My gut instinct is that this would make it a better cable but I'm not certain. See photo below (monk plus cable on right)



Regardless the value of the monk plus really is impressive in every aspect. Hats off to Lee and KK.


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> Also I had a question for anyone who might better understand the physical properties of copper as it relates to headphone/speaker cable.
> 
> I noticed the monk plus cable seems to be a good bit thicker and possibly has more cores than the braided cables I've been using. My gut instinct is that this would make it a better cable but I'm not certain. See photo below (monk plus cable on right)
> 
> ...


 
 lee has said how many cores it has - betwenn 50 and 60 if i remember correctly? and extremely low oxygen copper at that. they really did do a great job with it.


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> lee has said how many cores it has - betwenn 50 and 60 if i remember correctly? and extremely low oxygen copper at that. they really did do a great job with it.




Well that explains it...the cable I'm using has 14 lol


----------



## vapman

Can I get a recommendation of where to get some decent heatshrink cheap? My local electronics store is too expensive, and I don't know what's good or not... but the electrical tape replacing the HPM 62 cable guides I broke off isn't cutting it. keeps coming apart.


----------



## Brian Coffey

vapman said:


> Can I get a recommendation of where to get some decent heatshrink cheap? My local electronics store is too expensive, and I don't know what's good or not... but the electrical tape replacing the HPM 62 cable guides I broke off isn't cutting it. keeps coming apart.


 
 Have you checked your auto parts store?


----------



## vapman

brian coffey said:


> Have you checked your auto parts store?


 






 
  
  
 Another dumb question: okay to use one of these for heatshrink? Yeah obviously I know don't hit it with the flame


----------



## Brian Coffey

You can use that but I would think a Bic lighter might be better for a more even heat. Some of those torches are pretty brutal.Also our local Lowe's hardware carries heat shrink as well.


----------



## gwompki

Harbor freight sells it cheap pretty cheap as well as I recall.


----------



## endia

vapman said:


> Can I get a recommendation of where to get some decent heatshrink cheap? My local electronics store is too expensive, and I don't know what's good or not... but the electrical tape replacing the HPM 62 cable guides I broke off isn't cutting it. keeps coming apart.




if you have time;

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32580056869.html

also best tool for the purpose is your wife's hairdryer imo..


----------



## cingcut

vapman said:


> :eek:
> 
> 
> Another dumb question: okay to use one of these for heatshrink? Yeah obviously I know don't hit it with the flame :rolleyes:




maybe use glue gun?


----------



## boblauer

vapman said:


> Another dumb question: okay to use one of these for heatshrink? Yeah obviously I know don't hit it with the flame


 
 Hair dryer, heat gun on low even a cheap soldering iron will work on heat shrink. Harbor Freight is cheapest, followed by Lowes or HD


----------



## vapman

Thanks a ton for the suggestions everyone


----------



## vapman

My KZ wire got in! Less sticky than i remember, it will be good to work with =)


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> My KZ wire got in! Less sticky than i remember, it will be good to work with =)




Can you remind me how much you paid for those? I recall that it was a good deal.


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> Can you remind me how much you paid for those? I recall that it was a good deal.




7.15 shipped i think. With epacket and tracking number. Its from "A Sweet Girl's Store" but a few different sellers stock it with the same picture.


----------



## fleasbaby

Well $h1t boys...why did it take me so long to find this thread? I love earbuds, I love DIY. I've been looking for something different to do (usually spend my time making Grado-style cups on a lathe in my garage...).


----------



## gwompki

fleasbaby said:


> Well $h1t boys...why did it take me so long to find this thread? I love earbuds, I love DIY. I've been looking for something different to do (usually spend my time making Grado-style cups on a lathe in my garage...).


 
 Welcome!


----------



## vapman

fleasbaby said:


> Well $h1t boys...why did it take me so long to find this thread? I love earbuds, I love DIY. I've been looking for something different to do (usually spend my time making Grado-style cups on a lathe in my garage...).




Only thing to be wary of is high impedance drivers that are cheap are almost definitely QC rejects. Not many people are making them and they are known to have high failure rates in production. So i would stick to lower impedance DIY drivers for the time being. Aside from that welcome fellow solder bro!

P.S. if you ever made any cups for Koss drivers specifically I'd like to see what you've done...


----------



## gwompki

Anyone know of any 11.11 deals for diy components?  The Ali sellers I typically look at for parts don't seem to be offering any discount on components.


----------



## vapman

Yeah I'm not holding out for 11.11. The best diy sale i could find was like 50 cents total off those KZ wires i got. I will buy more of those but probably nothing else.


----------



## gwompki

Seems crazy to me that it is cheaper to buy a set of monk + than it is to buy individual components haha.  I was trying to find an inexpensive set of drivers to replace the monk+ set that I messed up in my modding adventures.  Cheapest I can find is like 8 bucks


----------



## Ira Delphic

Check this out - something VERY RARE. Can you guess what it is?
  

  
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 
 Trick question - it's a  Philips SHE3800 re-cabled using an old KZ IEM. The KZ had good cable/jack and poor SQ (they improved since then).  I gifted it to a forum member since the jack didn't work well with my LG V10 (static, activating Google voice etc). To my surprise I got back the above. Works great with my V10 and field testing now. This is what makes Head-Fi great!


----------



## gwompki

I just ordered another 10x she3800 and upgrade cables for Xmas gifts. I really do like the driver in this bud... especially for 2.80 USD a piece 

Think I will re-cable and then give to friends with a case/foams for the holidays. 

Interested to see what kind of reaction I get when giving these away. I can already picture the reaction..."Oh...you put new wires on ear buds? Thats..interesting. Thanks. I guess." Lol


----------



## boblauer

gwompki said:


> I just ordered another 10x she3800 and upgrade cables for Xmas gifts. I really do like the driver in this bud... especially for 2.80 USD a piece
> 
> Think I will re-cable and then give to friends with a case/foams for the holidays.
> 
> Interested to see what kind of reaction I get when giving these away. I can already picture the reaction..."Oh...you put new wires on ear buds? Thats..interesting. Thanks. I guess." Lol




If you gave that to someone,you'd better get a better thank you than that


----------



## vapman

Same here 
  
 Well, my KZ cables are great and all, but looking for something a little more premium. Anyone got good suggestions for cables on Ali or other places which are nice and don't have any trouble fitting in a MX500 shell? I didn't bother getting cables on 11.11 cause none were on sale.
  
 Thanks all =)


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> Same here
> 
> Well, my KZ cables are great and all, but looking for something a little more premium. Anyone got good suggestions for cables on Ali or other places which are nice and don't have any trouble fitting in a MX500 shell? I didn't bother getting cables on 11.11 cause none were on sale.
> 
> Thanks all =)




Cheapest I have found are from this store:

Check out this recommended store on AliExpress. Find great products at low prices!
 http://s.aliexpress.com/yU3QfYve 


The braided ones are 5.50 for a set of 2. I have bought 4 so far and they seem to be good quality.

 http://s.aliexpress.com/EzYbEzai 

I think these look nice as well and are the same price:

 http://s.aliexpress.com/ZRraeqmi 

I'm all ears if someone knows of other good deals!


----------



## endia

gwompki said:


> Cheapest I have found are from this store:
> 
> Check out this recommended store on AliExpress. Find great products at low prices!
> http://s.aliexpress.com/yU3QfYve
> ...




7N single crystal copper cable. little bit pricey but looks nice..

http://s.aliexpress.com/YJ3mmeEv


----------



## vapman

endia said:


> 7N single crystal copper cable. little bit pricey but looks nice..
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/YJ3mmeEv


 

 anyone here own one? Curious if it's worth it.


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> anyone here own one? Curious if it's worth it.




Too rich for my blood lol.

If I can find a diy driver I really like I would totally spring for something like that.


----------



## gwompki

I found my next re-cable project. 



These are the earbuds that came with the very inexpensive Agptek M20 DAP (same as Benjie S5). Surprisingly very good sounding. I had heard that the Benjie s5 came with a good set of earbuds. From the photos I saw, those came in an MX500 shell. The Agptek shell is very different. These things seem to fit in my ears much better than the MX500 style. They also have a large open vent on one side.

Very curious as to what's inside. I will disassemble and report back.


----------



## vapman

If anyone isn't happy with their Qian39 or K's 64 ohm as is, both are excellent modding candidates. But, be aware you'll need to tape down the K's driver. They are SUPER magnetic!
  
 It started with me wanting to use the K's shell and cable for the Qian39 driver - sounded good Mostly like the stock sound but improved in a few ways, mostly balance and detail. A very forward sound with very present mids but still with very good soundstage and dynamics.
  
 What really surprised me was putting the K's 64 driver on the Koss cable and Qian39 shell. The drivers on both are attached to the shell cover, and the cover on the K's is bigger than the 39's. So K's driver fit very easily on the 39 shell, where the 39 driver on the K's shell was a lot more difficult. Anyway, I had been listening to the K's 64 all day, and didn't like it because of a weird uncomfortable and unnatural sounding treble and just average bass. But in the Qian39 shell the bass is far improved and the treble has become totally warm and comfortable while still having an excellent extension!
  
 Maybe the qian39 shell is actually what emphasizes the bass the most? I can't tell which of these Frankenbuds I like more, but I can easily say I'm extremely happy with both! The K's 64 driver in the Qian39 shell is possibly better than a stock Qian39 and the K's shell and silver cable brings out tons more of the 39's driver's capabilities while also keeping the bass from being too overpowering. I still love the stock 39's sound with all that powerful bass but there is no question I am extremely happy with the results of both of these.
  
 sometimes you just need to swap cables and shells on 2 you don't like a ton to get 2 winners! like i said before - 2 birds with 1 soldering iron...


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> If anyone isn't happy with their Qian39 or K's 64 ohm as is, both are excellent modding candidates. But, be aware you'll need to tape down the K's driver. They are SUPER magnetic!
> 
> It started with me wanting to use the K's shell and cable for the Qian39 driver - sounded good Mostly like the stock sound but improved in a few ways, mostly balance and detail. A very forward sound with very present mids but still with very good soundstage and dynamics.
> 
> ...




Really interesting ideas. I actually never even considered swapping drivers onto different shells. 

I'm trying hard to resist buying any new buds for a while until I give some away. 

Just curious are we allowed to discuss trading in this thread or is that strictly limited to the for sale forum?


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> Same here
> 
> Well, my KZ cables are great and all, but looking for something a little more premium. Anyone got good suggestions for cables on Ali or other places which are nice and don't have any trouble fitting in a MX500 shell? I didn't bother getting cables on 11.11 cause none were on sale.
> 
> Thanks all =)


 
  
  
  
 I think I might have hit the mother lode of DIY components...seem to be really great prices although I'm sure those go way up once shipping is factored in.
  
 https://shop34785048.world.taobao.com/?spm=a312a.7728556.2015080705.5.OQY9cU


----------



## vapman

Greetz bros. Here is my dilenmma.
  
 Would anyone have use for empty PT15 shells after I do some driver harvesting from no cable versions? you could put in your own 15mm and have your own MMCX iem. no cables included. OFfer will be editing out when I run out of PT15 shells. And yes. you do need to supply your own MMCX.


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> Greetz bros. Here is my dilenmma.
> 
> Would anyone have use for empty PT15 shells after I do some driver harvesting from no cable versions? you could put in your own 15mm and have your own MMCX iem. no cables included. OFfer will be editing out when I run out of PT15 shells. And yes. you do need to supply your own MMCX.




I'm very interested...want to do some trading?


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> I'm very interested...want to do some trading?


 

 You f'n know it my man.
  And hit me next time you're in my area. I'd be more than happy to host an bud-off.
  
  
 Plus if we do this ,you could offer impressions of my first custom design IEMs which would be simply invalvuable to me. I'd gie you a bud as consolation.
  
 @ld100 and all toher Boston earbuders are welcome to join in this PM me. no sales.... just loaners!!!!
  
 i'll set up a lobby on my roof where we can enjoy all other's earbuds .I'll order a back of ~400 foams from Ali so we can toss all the used one eand the cheapful can Istand hard fuls 
  
 I'm innensely excited to meet @chicken beer I don't know when he'll be in town.


----------



## chicken beer

vapman said:


> You f'n know it my man.
> And hit me next time you're in my area. I'd be more than happy to host an bud-off.
> 
> 
> ...




Ah~ this is so cool!
I really want to be there! Hope the day comes soon!

Harvey


----------



## gwompki

Recabled the earbuds that came with the Agptek M20. I love these things. Anyone know where to get more without buying another player?


----------



## vapman

Turns out the PT15 isn't a snap-in :rolleyes:

Bought a few more without cable, will heat them up to melt the glue next time....



Of course, i did the other one right :rolleyes:


----------



## Ira Delphic

vapman said:


> Turns out the PT15 isn't a snap-in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 For around $4.50 per driver, not including work to extract, not really so bad if the re-tuning in the new shell works out.
 I hope **** has more earbuds in the pipeline!


----------



## Ira Delphic

Could a driver from a KZ Ate be used in an MX500 type shell? Assuming it could be securely installed? Any certainty it won't work?


----------



## vapman

ira delphic said:


> Could a driver from a KZ Ate be used in an MX500 type shell? Assuming it could be securely installed? Any certainty it won't work?




I have actually looked into this before and theres no earbud shells for drivers that small (9mm)...



ira delphic said:


> For around $4.50 per driver, not including work to extract, not really so bad if the re-tuning in the new shell works out.
> I hope **** has more earbuds in the pipeline!




Agreed and all it takes is a couple minutes of patience with a lighter to melt the glue. On the first one i guess i put the screwdriver right where the opening for the wire was and felt like i had it. Hehe.


----------



## Danneq

Finally finished recabling the Aiwa V99!


  

  

  
  
 It took over 3 hours in total. 2,5 were spent trying to get the cable into the housing. It was almost impossible but I finally did it.

 I had to cut the wire slightly on the right side to be able to solder the new wires to the old wires from the driver, so the right side is abour 1-2 cm shorter. It's not really noticable when you wear them though.

 Just noticed one thing: the channels are reversed! I was careful to do it correctly with the red wire in the right housing and the green in the left, just like on the cable that I replaced. Perhaps the wires are soldered incorrectly on the plug?
 I don't feel like replacing the plug or redoing the wires to the drivers so I'll just let it be the way it is. The housings are symmetrical so there's not problem to use the right one in your left ear and the left one in your right ear.


----------



## Danneq

Here's the cable I bought:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/UE-four-shares-Weave-Single-crystal-copper-wire-UE-wire/32288225069.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.qIpTbm

 A similar one that's half the price I paid...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-2M-high-quality-LC-OFC-DIY-Earphone-Cable-Earphone-audio-cable-repair-upgrade-wire-Without/32686538288.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.441.m0NLDP


----------



## gwompki

danneq said:


> Finally finished recabling the Aiwa V99!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That looks great! Well done...how do they sound?

On all of the braided cables I've bought the green is right and red is left for some reason. No idea why they did it that way. I use my DMM to check every set just to be certain though.


----------



## vapman

Many congrats @Danneq  !!
 they look awesome 
 i've found about half my china bought premade cables are backwards though...


----------



## gwompki

What are the cheapest earbuds that come with 14.8mm drivers. I destroyed one of the drivers in my diy pk1 set trying to mod. The cheapest drivers I can find on AliExpress are 8USD which seems pricey to me. 

I think we need to organize a group taobao order


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> What are the cheapest earbuds that come with 14.8mm drivers. I destroyed one of the drivers in my diy pk1 set trying to mod. The cheapest drivers I can find on AliExpress are 8USD which seems pricey to me.
> 
> I think we need to organize a group taobao order




Edifier drivers are either 14.8 or 15 exactly. **** pt15 should work too. I can't confirm either until my DIY pk1 shells show up if the edifier driver fits perfectly in it but visually they seem to be the same size. But either an edifier or the pt15 without cables would get you more than just the drivers 


BTW about to recable my Asura 2.0 with fancy wire and put the 2.5mm trrs on a set of Qian39


----------



## vapman

Argh, ran out of 3.5mm connectors. Gonna have to put off Asura recable for a little while!


----------



## vapman

Hey anyone got a preferred source on y splitters? Also anyone know the size of cardas VE uses - is it 26 gauge?

About to order 10 rhodium 3.5mms from China mail. The price is too good to not just deal with the wait. Maybe it will give me time to get used to the sound of the plain asura 2 again.

10pcs Rhodium plated carbon fiber 3.5mm Stereo 3 Pole Male Plug 90 degree Audio Connector solder free shipping
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32662695283/32662695283.html 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> Hey anyone got a preferred source on y splitters? Also anyone know the size of cardas VE uses - is it 26 gauge?
> 
> About to order 10 rhodium 3.5mms from China mail. The price is too good to not just deal with the wait. Maybe it will give me time to get used to the sound of the plain asura 2 again.
> 
> ...




Those look good. What would you use for strain relief in a connector like that? I know some of the Ali sellers sell that sort of thing but not sure of the size.


----------



## vapman

Probably just heatshrink..m


----------



## Raketen

that metal crimp & heatshrink seem like they'd do well enough.... now we need the DIY Cable moulding thread lol.




vapman said:


> Hey anyone got a preferred source on y splitters? Also anyone know the size of cardas VE uses - is it 26 gauge?
> 
> About to order 10 rhodium 3.5mms from China mail. The price is too good to not just deal with the wait. Maybe it will give me time to get used to the sound of the plain asura 2 again.
> 
> ...




On the veclan page for Zen it says 26-something AWG

idk anything about making cables, but plussound have some y splitters in their DIY Parts section and a 20% black friday sale atm (probably still pricy but they look nice).


----------



## vapman

Thanks dude. I will check them but from what i know plus is super $$$


----------



## Danneq

gwompki said:


> That looks great! Well done...how do they sound?
> 
> On all of the braided cables I've bought the green is right and red is left for some reason. No idea why they did it that way. I use my DMM to check every set just to be certain though.




I never did reply to your post. They sound great. Detailed with a good soundstage and pretty good bass. I think they edge out Sony E252 and become my favorite vintage earbuds. However some newer ones like Sennheiser OMX980/MX985, Blox TM7 and the Cypherus earbuds beat the V99. But V99 would definitely be in the top if they were released today.

I'll see if I keep it as it is or replace the plug with a neutrik plug...


----------



## vapman

Go all the way dude. Get a Eidolic on that bad boy.
  
  
 edit: SHE3800 owners.... is it glued shut?


----------



## ozkan

vapman said:


> Go all the way dude. Get a Eidolic on that bad boy.
> 
> 
> edit: SHE3800 owners.... is it glued shut?




Yes but you can pry it open with your fingers. You'd better to move the cable inwards first as the cable is thin and can break from the driver plate. 


And don't forget to add a small amount of Blu-Tac on the back shell.


----------



## vapman

ozkan what kind of blu tac do you recommend or is there only one kind?

I am not too worried about the wires themselves but i dont want the driver to get wrecked so i will be sure to loosen the cable first.


----------



## ozkan

vapman said:


> ozkan what kind of blu tac do you recommend or is there only one kind?
> 
> I am not too worried about the wires themselves but i dont want the driver to get wrecked so i will be sure to loosen the cable first.




That's what I meant actually because the drivers aren't properly glued on the front covers and could easily be separated and damaged. I have broken 3 drivers while moding.  However I haven't broken any Monk yet. 

SHE3800 has one of the most fragile drivers I've ever seen and any kind of force can easily make them disfunctional so be careful and don't resolder the drivers and even touch them 

I've used Faber Castell's blutac but I think the other brands are also made of the same material.


----------



## gwompki

raketen said:


> that metal crimp & heatshrink seem like they'd do well enough.... now we need the DIY Cable moulding thread lol.
> On the veclan page for Zen it says 26-something AWG
> 
> idk anything about making cables, but plussound have some y splitters in their DIY Parts section and a 20% black friday sale atm (probably still pricy but they look nice).




Haha totally missed the crimp in the image. Should totally have a cable moulding thread lol.


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> Haha totally missed the crimp in the image. Should totally have a cable moulding thread lol.




Damn. Totally thought this litz wire i bought was gonna be a ton thicker. But it is about as wide as the leads in many headphone wires so i am hoping it will be sufficient i could always buy a bigger size of wire or double up on all my connections.



Actually after braiding one cable up im not so sure itll be thick enough after all... Only one way to find out! To be honest I'll surprised if it works at all...


----------



## vapman

Hehe. Its not very pretty. But it works great! This wire has a surprisingly bright tone for pure copper.



edit: The reason it is so bright despite being clear? almost a..... silver cable tone with bass?! the cable has a resistance of under 1.5 ohms!!!! I've never worked with headphone wire this low resistance. This will be very interesting.


----------



## fleasbaby

vapman said:


> Hehe. Its not very pretty. But it works great! This wire has a surprisingly bright tone for pure copper.
> 
> 
> 
> edit: The reason it is so bright despite being clear? almost a..... silver cable tone with bass?! the cable has a resistance of under 1.5 ohms!!!! I've never worked with headphone wire this low resistance. This will be very interesting.


 
  
 Outlandishly large plug? Check
  
 Impractical cable? Check
  
 Bright sound signature? Check
  
 Pizza box? Check
  
 Congratulations, you are now Grado Labs. Are you in Brooklyn?


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> Hehe. Its not very pretty. But it works great! This wire has a surprisingly bright tone for pure copper.
> 
> 
> 
> edit: The reason it is so bright despite being clear? almost a..... silver cable tone with bass?! the cable has a resistance of under 1.5 ohms!!!! I've never worked with headphone wire this low resistance. This will be very interesting.


 
  
 I love it.  I've got all sorts of franken-creations like that in my shop...mostly guitar pedal monstrosities though


----------



## vapman

fleasbaby said:


> Outlandishly large plug? Check
> 
> Impractical cable? Check
> 
> ...




HAHAHA!

we don't like to consider NY part of new england out here.... But close enough!


----------



## fleasbaby

vapman said:


> HAHAHA!
> 
> we don't like to consider NY part of new england out here.... But close enough!


 
  
 Nice. 
  
 I am a recovering Grado-nerd. I still have a crazy soft spot for vintage nineties iterations of their stuff. I also turn my own wooden cups for them, and do a lot of custom building....my Instagram:
  
 instagram.com/fleasbaby
  
 My latest non-earbud love is a pair of Nakamichi SP-7 drivers in a semi-closed Grado cup. The Primo drivers Nakamichi used are rumored to be from the same line that old Joseph Grado used to make his HP series. Not the same model, but in the same series made by Primo.


----------



## vapman

Damn I always wanted a set of those Nakamichi headphones! If I ever see a good deal on em I'll grab em. BTW I'm about to try an 8 wire cable with the super thin litz wire I have. I have thicker stuff on the way that's just a bit smaller than 24AWG but I'm excited to try the 8x wire method. I got some 2mm cable sleeving too since it'll be nice for finishing up wire.


----------



## gwompki

Think I found a cheap source for shells

 MX500 Stereo Headset Earphone Heavy Bass Music Earpiece with Volume Adjustment for MP3 FM Radio Mobile Cellphone FM PC Laptop
 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32498425938/32498425938.html 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## gwompki

The left driver from earbuds that came with my Agptek m20 died unfortunately due to me forcing it back on to the shell. Really bummed about this as they had become hands down my absolute favorite. Really solid low end, present mids and still a very nice soundstage.

I put the drivers from she3800 in those shells(mx360 style) and it's pretty good! Was a huge struggle to make them fit due to the she3800 driver shell curvature but finally got it. Low end isn't quite as solid, but the drivers are brand new and haven't burned in.

I contacted Agptek and they said the OEM manufacturer would sell me 60 units for 9 bucks each lol. I was like, can I buy 4? 

I'm trying to track down a set of Sennheiser mx360 because I think they might be very close. I've discovered I much prefer the mx360, 365, 760 type shell over the mx500 due to fit and comfort. Wish it were easier to obtain shells.


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> The left driver from earbuds that came with my Agptek m20 died unfortunately due to me forcing it back on to the shell. Really bummed about this as they had become hands down my absolute favorite. Really solid low end, present mids and still a very nice soundstage.
> 
> I put the drivers from she3800 in those shells(mx360 style) and it's pretty good! Was a huge struggle to make them fit due to the she3800 driver shell curvature but finally got it. Low end isn't quite as solid, but the drivers are brand new and haven't burned in.
> 
> ...





>


 
 Wow 9 bucks a pop. That is wild. Sorry to hear about your m20 though - my Vido died a very premature death the same way the other day. Heard that heartbreaking "crunch" sound.....
  
 BTW do you use blu tac in your earbuds? I have just started to mess with it. Seems it can do some quite awesome things for the sound.


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> Wow 9 bucks a pop. That is wild. Sorry to hear about your m20 though - my Vido died a very premature death the same way the other day. Heard that heartbreaking "crunch" sound.....
> 
> BTW do you use blu tac in your earbuds? I have just started to mess with it. Seems it can do some quite awesome things for the sound.




I've tried the ozkan blutac mod in the she3800 to great success. I actually just got 10 pairs of she3800 that I will be recabling tomorrow along with ozkan's mod. Xmas present time!


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> I've tried the @ozkan blutac mod in the she3800 to great success. I actually just got 10 pairs of she3800 that I will be recabling tomorrow along with ozkan's mod. Xmas present time!


 
 As i've never opened a SHE3800, are they glued in or can you take them apart with your hands? The edifier 180 is glued in..


----------



## gwompki

vapman said:


> As i've never opened a SHE3800, are they glued in or can you take them apart with your hands? The edifier 180 is glued in..




She3800 opens right up;


----------



## endia

very cheap 300 ohm drivers which my current all rounders;
https://world.taobao.com/item/533015723114.htm?fromSite=main


----------



## gwompki

Got my first batch of Xmas presents ready to go out


----------



## vapman

gwompki said:


> Got my first batch of Xmas presents ready to go out


 
 those look killer. nice work


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Dear guru's of DIY, I am getting ready to recable my some of my earbud once I reach my hometown. 

 My question is, is there anything in particular to look out for?

 I have seen too many horror stories of killing the driver when trying to reshell....etc.
 My main concern is the diaphragm with the voice coil would separate from the magnetic base as illustrated in the picture I found from a Chinese Forum.


  
 Question then, I would be free from such issues if I do not remove the front plastic cap of the earbud correct?
 Final question, is it normal for the voice coil to separate from its base like the picture?

 Thank-you


----------



## gwompki

audionewbi3 said:


> Dear guru's of DIY, I am getting ready to recable my some of my earbud once I reach my hometown.
> 
> 
> My question is, is there anything in particular to look out for?
> ...




I have had this happen on an she3800. The adhesive holding the plastic cap onto the driver itself came apart. That was one out of about 15 that I have done now. I would not worry about this happening though as the cap SHOULD be glued on securely. If all goes like it should you should never see diaphragm/coil.

All you have to do is pop off the cap, resolder existing wire and solder on the new wire.

One gotcha to look out for...when tying the knot for the new cable inside the shell, make sure the lead is fairly short. I left one too long and when I went to put the driver assembly back on there was too much pressure on the back of the driver which caused the coil leads to snap....RIP driver lol


----------



## AudioNewbi3

gwompki said:


> I have had this happen on an she3800. The adhesive holding the plastic cap onto the driver itself came apart. That was one out of about 15 that I have done now. I would not worry about this happening though as the cap SHOULD be glued on securely. If all goes like it should you should never see diaphragm/coil.
> 
> All you have to do is pop off the cap, resolder existing wire and solder on the new wire.
> 
> One gotcha to look out for...when tying the knot for the new cable inside the shell, make sure the lead is fairly short. I left one too long and when I went to put the driver assembly back on there was too much pressure on the back of the driver which caused the coil leads to snap....RIP driver lol


 
 Oh wow! Thanks! That is very valuable knowledge!

 Thank-you!


----------



## Ira Delphic

gwompki said:


> Got my first batch of Xmas presents ready to go out




Gwompki does some fine recabling work. My she3800/kz cable earbud is pretty awesome!


----------



## vapman

audionewbi3 said:


> Oh wow! Thanks! That is very valuable knowledge!
> 
> Thank-you!


 
 I've broken drivers exactly like that so many times now.
  
 1 side of PT15, before i reazlied they were glued in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 1 set of H180 but I just wanted them for the shells anyway
 1 set of Vido (fell off the table 3 times while trying to solder.... stupid)
  
 On the bright side.... I found my last good pair of E100 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so I'm gonna put a cable that isn't total garbage on it


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> I've broken drivers exactly like that so many times now.
> 
> 1 side of PT15, before i reazlied they were glued in
> 
> ...


 
 I am going to recable my 320Ohm V1 which is no longer being sold and my GSG BBS. Hope nothing bad happens.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

@gwompki@Ira Delphic do you guys braid your cable before recabling earbuds or solder then braid?

 Thanks!


----------



## gwompki

audionewbi3 said:


> @gwompki
> @Ira Delphic
> do you guys braid your cable before recabling earbuds or solder then braid?
> 
> ...




Sounds like you are taking on a bigger project than I have had the guts to try. I have only bought pre-braided/pre-terminated cables from Ali. 

I would think you would want to braid your cable first so you don't risk damaging the driver imho.

What kind of cable are you using? I'm intrigued.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

gwompki said:


> Sounds like you are taking on a bigger project than I have had the guts to try. I have only bought pre-braided/pre-terminated cables from Ali.
> 
> I would think you would want to braid your cable first so you don't risk damaging the driver imho.
> 
> What kind of cable are you using? I'm intrigued.


 
 Here you go mate:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.0YCQbd&id=540678606174&_u=i2i926dj002f
  
 I basically bought 25 meters of white and 25 meters of black.
 The cable seems like it is same as those found on the SeaHF 320 Ohm v2, which is very soft as they are PU coated rather than Teflon. They are also quite similar to Shozy Cygnus cable, though only a wee bit harder. From the page, it seems they also mentioned that it is the sock cable for 1964 ears iem(highly doubt it).

 The reason I am doing the braiding myself id because I also braid paracord, kumihimo, and have experience braiding 12 strand for my DIY mini to mini. What I lack is just the experience of soldering to an earbud driver.


----------



## gwompki

audionewbi3 said:


> Here you go mate:
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.0YCQbd&id=540678606174&_u=i2i926dj002f
> 
> I basically bought 25 meters of white and 25 meters of black.
> ...




Man that sounds cool! Where do you live? I'd be happy to do the soldering for you unless the shipping would be cost prohibitive (I'm in the southeast US). The only thing that might be a concern would be with Paracord getting the cable into the shell. Mx500 shells have a fairly large opening but might be tricky with Paracord.

I'm really excited to see your cable...I would really like one made from this material so can't wait to learn from your experience. Please post photos as you progress.

Feel free to ask any other questions as you progress. I'm happy to share my limited experience.


----------



## AudioNewbi3 (Dec 9, 2017)

gwompki said:


> Man that sounds cool! Where do you live? I'd be happy to do the soldering for you unless the shipping would be cost prohibitive (I'm in the southeast US). The only thing that might be a concern would be with Paracord getting the cable into the shell. Mx500 shells have a fairly large opening but might be tricky with Paracord.
> 
> I'm really excited to see your cable...I would really like one made from this material so can't wait to learn from your experience. Please post photos as you progress.
> 
> Feel free to ask any other questions as you progress. I'm happy to share my limited experience.


 
 Thank-you for the generosity mate! Shipping cost and waiting time alone would be close to a month if I were to send it to you hahaha. But I humbly accept your thoughts. 

 Will post photo of the build once it reaches my hometown. The cables and other peripherals are still in the air being sent to my hometown as I type this. Probably will arrive there by this wednesday GMT+8.00.

 As for paracord, what I meant was I like to braid paracord, but I am not going to use it on any form of cable as they trap dust and gunk quite easily hahaha.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

Tomorrow shall be the day where I either break my SeaHf or transform them to be more usable.


----------



## awaysooner

Say hello to the ****-Qian39. I destroyed the PT15 trying to open it up to add tuning pad hoping to improve the bass. i figure why not use the case on the drivers from Qian 39, since they are slightly small drivers compare to usual MX500. Might tame the bass a little. I use the tuning pad from a pair of Monk Plus and glue to the Qian 39 drivers. On the Qian39, the sponge is glue to the case, **** cases are designed differently. The driver is slightly larger than **** case, but with a bit glue, it stayed put. How do they sound? Can't really tell, my right ear just underwent a Stapedotomy, it'll take weeks to recover (hopefully). Just want to share a fun project.


----------



## gwompki

audionewbi3 said:


> Tomorrow shall be the day where I either break my SeaHf or transform them to be more usable.




How did it go? That cable looks awesome. Can't wait to see the results.


----------



## gwompki

awaysooner said:


> Say hello to the ****-Qian39. I destroyed the PT15 trying to open it up to add tuning pad hoping to improve the bass. i figure why not use the case on the drivers from Qian 39, since they are slightly small drivers compare to usual MX500. Might tame the bass a little. I use the tuning pad from a pair of Monk Plus and glue to the Qian 39 drivers. On the Qian39, the sponge is glue to the case, **** cases are designed differently. The driver is slightly larger than **** case, but with a bit glue, it stayed put. How do they sound? Can't really tell, my right ear just underwent a Stapedotomy, it'll take weeks to recover (hopefully). Just want to share a fun project.




Can't wait to hear the results. I really want to make an earbud with detachable cables.


----------



## AudioNewbi3

gwompki said:


> How did it go? That cable looks awesome. Can't wait to see the results.


 
 I killed my SeaHF 320Ohm V1 discontinued driver, not by soldering or any other thing but by opening up the earbud too quickly, seperating the diaphragm from the magnetic unit......Replacement 320Ohm driver units (new version) inbound from bug bro.


----------



## gwompki

audionewbi3 said:


> I killed my SeaHF 320Ohm V1 discontinued driver, not by soldering or any other thing but by opening up the earbud too quickly, seperating the diaphragm from the magnetic unit......Replacement 320Ohm driver units (new version) inbound from bug bro.




Doh! Sorry to hear that! I killed my favorite buds recently too...So disheartening


----------



## AudioNewbi3

gwompki said:


> Doh! Sorry to hear that! I killed my favorite buds recently too...So disheartening


 
 Nah, when I went into this hobby and DIY, I instantly knew that I would be screwed over by mistakes. I was and still is prepared for it......however, it can really be discouraging sometimes when all the effort is wasted.
  
 I have made and throw away many mini to mini cables due to short-circuits, but this time, there was no problem with my wiring, rather it was the driver, so although sad, I am not frustrated.


----------



## serman005

This may be a stupid question but, what is the level of technical sophistication required to make a pair of basic earbuds? Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## vapman

serman005 said:


> This may be a stupid question but, what is the level of technical sophistication required to make a pair of basic earbuds? Thanks for the feedback!


 
 The hardest part is gonna be opening the shells. The second hardest part is getting the drivers out without breaking them (you probably will break a few your first couple tries so try with some cheapos nobody will miss). after that, its basically can you make a cable or not?
  
 and don't forget to add heatshrink BEFORE you solder it all together!


----------



## serman005

vapman said:


> The hardest part is gonna be opening the shells. The second hardest part is getting the drivers out without breaking them (you probably will break a few your first couple tries so try with some cheapos nobody will miss). after that, its basically can you make a cable or not?
> 
> and don't forget to add heatshrink BEFORE you solder it all together!


 
 Thanks for the input. I think I'm gonna go for it. What's the worst that can happen--break a few drivers?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

serman005 said:


> Thanks for the input. I think I'm gonna go for it. What's the worst that can happen--break a few drivers?


 
 yep


----------



## AudioNewbi3

After some initial set backs, here are the results:


----------



## gwompki

audionewbi3 said:


> After some initial set backs, here are the results:




Those look great!


----------



## AudioNewbi3

gwompki said:


> Those look great!


 
 Thanks for the complement mate!


----------



## headjelly

Hey, can the community recommend a soft pre-braided DIY cable? I have ordered a couple of cables before, but unfortunately they are all much stiffer than I like.


----------



## endia

headjelly said:


> Hey, can the community recommend a soft pre-braided DIY cable? I have ordered a couple of cables before, but unfortunately they are all much stiffer than I like.




this is a very soft cable, bought from another seller but didn't test yet, waiting for plugs..

http://s.aliexpress.com/7Nz6NjU3


----------



## AudioNewbi3

headjelly said:


> Hey, can the community recommend a soft pre-braided DIY cable? I have ordered a couple of cables before, but unfortunately they are all much stiffer than I like.


 
  
  


endia said:


> this is a very soft cable, bought from another seller but didn't test yet, waiting for plugs..
> 
> http://s.aliexpress.com/7Nz6NjU3


 
  
 Same cable but cheaper (if you are willing to solder and braid it like what I did with my SeaHf's

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.a4Hi8b&id=540678606174&_u=c2i926dj3b9e
  
 They are like Cygnus Litz Cable


----------



## notamethlab

Can anyone recommend me some drivers for PK1 shells? I'm interested in making my own earbuds.


----------



## vapman

notamethlab said:


> Can anyone recommend me some drivers for PK1 shells? I'm interested in making my own earbuds.


 
 PT15. Was kinda keeping it a secret but I didn't end up liking the super bright tone. Anything else that size will fit... so you could do she3800/edifier too...
  


audionewbi3 said:


> Same cable but cheaper (if you are willing to solder and braid it like what I did with my SeaHf's
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.a4Hi8b&id=540678606174&_u=c2i926dj3b9e
> 
> They are like Cygnus Litz Cable


 
 You made 3x or 4x braid with this wire? How is the sound vs. stock cable on your Seahf man?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

vapman said:


> You made 3x or 4x braid with this wire? How is the sound vs. stock cable on your Seahf man?


 
 I made a 4x cable for my sesahf...both of them infact, and I cannot for the love of me hear the sound difference. 
  
 If I were to allow for placebo, I would say that they indeed sounded brigther, but that may just be the fact that my seahf has replacement drivers vs the original stock drivers (which was said to be the same one used in the Zen V1) as they are no longer produced.

 I recabled my earbuds mainly as I am spoiled by soft cables which are easy to manipulate and store.


----------



## ozkan

audionewbi3 said:


> I made a 4x cable for my sesahf...both of them infact, and I cannot for the love of me hear the sound difference.
> 
> If I were to allow for placebo, I would say that they indeed sounded brigther, but that may just be the fact that my seahf has replacement drivers vs the original stock drivers (which was said to be the same one used in the Zen V1) as they are no longer produced.
> 
> ...




Where did you order your Zen 1 drivers from? Any link to those please?


----------



## AudioNewbi3

ozkan said:


> Where did you order your Zen 1 drivers from? Any link to those please?


 
 It was made by seahf a while ago when they were still in partnership....but now it has been discontinued.


----------



## notamethlab

notamethlab said:


> Can anyone recommend me some drivers for PK1 shells? I'm interested in making my own earbuds.




Anyone?? I need 15-16mm drivers recommendations.


----------



## endia

notamethlab said:


> Anyone?? I need 15-16mm drivers recommendations.




15.4 mm 300 ohm driver with mx500 shell.. i'm not sure if it fits yuin shell..

http://s.aliexpress.com/jmEbArMb


----------



## alizeofeniquito

any good wire recommendation on aliexpress?


----------



## golov17

alizeofeniquito said:


> any good wire recommendation on aliexpress?


 search Earmax


----------



## vapman

Mourning the death of my Asura 2.0.... so in my grief and despair I put together the single best bud I could. 8 way copper cable, rhodium plug. Crazy gorgeous sound. With just a bit more open treble, would be on the same level of Asura 2.0. But, this might be better for detail, emotion and energy.


----------



## alizeofeniquito

vapman said:


> Mourning the death of my Asura 2.0.... so in my grief and despair I put together the single best bud I could. 8 way copper cable, rhodium plug. Crazy gorgeous sound. With just a bit more open treble, would be on the same level of Asura 2.0. But, this might be better for detail, emotion and energy.


 
 What bud is that? Can you link me a  good copper cable because I don't want an spc cable.


----------



## ozkan

Does anyone know how to open the shell and recable the K319?


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> Does anyone know how to open the shell and recable the K319?


 just remove rubber rings


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> just remove rubber rings




Then will the driver come off so I can solder another cable easily?


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> Then will the driver come off so I can solder another cable easily?


 Off driver thin-bladed knife, and see it


----------



## ozkan

I'll try that later Oleg.  Btw, I found a way to improve the bass fit and comfort on my K319 by reversing the silicone rings. Here are the pictures


----------



## alizeofeniquito

anyone tried this copper wire?https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Single-crystal-copper-wire-DIY-headphone-cable-IE800-wire-without-plug/32554900816.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.268.dTJ28g


----------



## ozkan

Philips SHE3800 with KZ ATE cable


----------



## vapman

ozkan said:


> Philips SHE3800 with KZ ATE cable


 
 Put a 4pole rhodium jack on that bad boy!


----------



## ozkan

What do you think about this cable guys? Can they be good? 

https://m.tr.aliexpress.com/item/32752633204.html#autostay


----------



## ozkan

vapman said:


> Put a 4pole rhodium jack on that bad boy!




Where can I order it? Is this also Rhodium? 

1pcs pailiccs 90 Degree Jack 3.5 mm Headphone Plug Right Angle 3 Pole Stereo Audio Jack Connector for Cable Adapter
 http://s.aliexpress.com/NnAZriMr 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> What do you think about this cable guys? Can they be good?
> 
> https://m.tr.aliexpress.com/item/32752633204.html#autostay


 like this? 





 Or this?


----------



## weedophile

Couldnt really wait till tmr so i tried to recable my Sony MDR E808+

Was a pretty good experience though i have to say it was failure    but hey this was the first try on one of my cheaper earbuds (though all are relatively cheap)

Got the right side of the earbud working but couldnt get the left to work. Resoldered again 2 more times and the circuit board (? the green board) gave way and chipped off. Guess i was overly eager lmao. At least that's a 50% success!

Just need to order some E808+ from Taobao again. Tmr i will try with the Qian39. Any thing to look out for?

Edit: I realise it was because i broke the driver. Hence i really need to take note when opening the cover. Hmmmm


----------



## ozkan

golov17 said:


> like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah they look great!  Where did you buy it from?


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> Yeah they look great!  Where did you buy it from?


 not same cables, bought from Taobao and AE long time ago..


----------



## Ira Delphic

weedophile said:


> Couldnt really wait till tmr so i tried to recable my Sony MDR E808+
> 
> Was a pretty good experience though i have to say it was failure
> 
> ...


 
  
 When I have time to DIY I'll get a bunch of cheapo $1 earbuds that I don't mind destroying. The E808+ may be inexpensive but so good. But can't cry over spilt milk. 
 At least you have some nice refrigerator magnets! I have a driver on the refrigerator from a **** PT15 re-cabling that went bad.


----------



## fairx

Hi guys. Anybody mod their she3800? I wish to know if anybody successfully extending she3800 highs. If it can be done I'm going to order a bunch for experiments.


----------



## ozkan

fairx said:


> Hi guys. Anybody mod their she3800? I wish to know if anybody successfully extending she3800 highs. If it can be done I'm going to order a bunch for experiments.




I did. Please check the previous pages


----------



## weedophile

ira delphic said:


> When I have time to DIY I'll get a bunch of cheapo $1 earbuds that I don't mind destroying. The E808+ may be inexpensive but so good. But can't cry over spilt milk.
> At least you have some nice refrigerator magnets! I have a driver on the refrigerator from a **** PT15 re-cabling that went bad.




Yeah i dont have any back up now hence i am buying some soon. But after listening to what i have i kinda felt like they ought to be recabled first and also due to that damned J cables.


----------



## vapman

weedophile said:


> Yeah i dont have any back up now hence i am buying some soon. But after listening to what i have i kinda felt like they ought to be recabled first and also due to that damned J cables.


 
 After a while with some diy experience you can really hear when an earbud is being held back by the cable sometimes. then again, sometimes it sounds so good, and then recabling makes it just ridiculous =)


----------



## Raketen

Have y'all seen these? Pretty handy stuff if you want to do a temporary termination or have some hardwired buds to reterminate balanced and want to make sure everything is in phase and whatnot, they make 2.5, 3.5 trrs, trs male and female.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J4DWYFM/


----------



## vapman

^^^ Those are lifesavers! Highly recommended


----------



## endia

raketen said:


> Have y'all seen these? Pretty handy stuff if you want to do a temporary termination or have some hardwired buds to reterminate balanced and want to make sure everything is in phase and whatnot, they make 2.5, 3.5 trrs, trs male and female.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J4DWYFM/


 
  
  
 if you have time, there are much cheapers ;P
  
 https://richtech.aliexpress.com/store/group/Stereo-4pole-AV-Balun/402126_510808961.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.ncFI1R


----------



## tinkertailor

awaysooner said:


> Say hello to the ****-Qian39. I destroyed the PT15 trying to open it up to add tuning pad hoping to improve the bass. i figure why not use the case on the drivers from Qian 39, since they are slightly small drivers compare to usual MX500. Might tame the bass a little. I use the tuning pad from a pair of Monk Plus and glue to the Qian 39 drivers. On the Qian39, the sponge is glue to the case, **** cases are designed differently. The driver is slightly larger than **** case, but with a bit glue, it stayed put. How do they sound? Can't really tell, my right ear just underwent a Stapedotomy, it'll take weeks to recover (hopefully). Just want to share a fun project.


 
 hope your ears are better. any update on how these sound?


----------



## weedophile

Had another go with the Benjie stock earbud and i might have screwed up again. Basically (pic is the E808+) the circuit board chipped off. Is there any way to rectify it? (i.e by dropping solder on the board which i cant get it on)

Edit: The cables were stiff and i tried to adjust the other side of the cable to solder it on and the circuit board chipped off. Anyway i also got the right side of the earbud working again lmao. Frustrated as the Benjie is one of my better liked earbuds but i couldnt get the Qian39 out of the shell. Anwyay i also dont have a workbench to work with, just some blu tac to stick the driver on a box. I watched some solder tips video on youtube and they can hold the solder wire with their bare hands. But when i did, it gives a static electric charge and numbs my hand. May i check if this is normal?

Anw any pros have some tips for newbs like myself to watch out for. I current have 2 which is when opening the shell, take extra care for some drivers as the coil might detach if the magnet is attached to the housing of the earbud. 2nd is that when soldering, its better to use an inverted V method (pics to be uploaded later)


----------



## vapman

Are either of the solder points on the other end connected too? I never knew if they were or not. Looks like a lifted pad so readding solder wont fix... The only way to deal with that really is to wire to the trace that came from that pad.


----------



## weedophile

Ahh that sounds depressing. Nvm i shall order myself some drivers from taobao and do it from scratch. Till then!


----------



## awaysooner

tinkertailor said:


> hope your ears are better. any update on how these sound?


 
 It's more balance, but it's colder. I think it has to do with thiner casing. Qian series still quite a bit lacking in sound stage and imaging compare to higher end earbuds.


----------



## knudsen

Hi,
  
 I'm wondering, what are the rules of thumb/theory when modding/creating new earbuds? I'm at complete beginner at modding, but it seems there are several things to consider;
  
 - holes on the back of the body. What does it do to the frequency response to either create new/larger holes or fill existing with material? What does the distance between holes have of influence? I'm thinking about the theory of creating a subwoofer, where all this is well described. The wavelength of bass frequencies seem huge compared to any possible distance between the holes, does it matter at all? Or does it matter more to mid frequencies?
 - what does adding of "horseshoe cotton" do to the frequency response? Or several? For example https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Earbud-headphones-horseshoe-tuning-cotton-Ear-noise-cotton-Leakproof-sound-speaker-unit-complex/2036360886.html
 - what does putting "something" in the chamber, thereby making the chamber smaller, do to the frequency response? What is the effect of different materials (ie cotton / hard material)?
 - the small holes in the front of the earbud are mostly extremely small. Any benefits from making them larger? Some earbuds only have holes in the outer part, not in the center, does this make the sound "bigger"?
 - cable. Matters or not beyond a certain quality? I've had silver interconnects between stationary units and that definetly made a difference (to me..).
 - plug. Rhodium seems popular, I've ordered but haven't received. Seems that rhodium results in more treble compared to gold, which is rounder in freq response. For example with Edimun v3.
  
 I cant find a guide to this and more, even though I believe it should be possible to make one..
  
 Anyone have a good app for iphone for measuring the frequency response? I know it will not be exact in any way, I'm just interested in being able to make relative measurements before/after modding.
  
 Thanks for input


----------



## vapman

knudsen said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm wondering, what are the rules of thumb/theory when modding/creating new earbuds? I'm at complete beginner at modding, but it seems there are several things to consider;
> 
> ...


 
 Holes on the back of the body..... find a bud with a lot of holes on the back and experiment covering them with tape or your fingers, you will get a better sense of what it does than any words i could write. Don't confuse these with bass vents.
  
 Horseshoe cotton will affect different drivers different depending on the shell. Again, a thing experimentation will let you know best. But, generally they are used to prevent reverberation...
  
 Cable and plug matters more than it does on iem/headphones in my experience.
  
 If you are gonna measure FR with a phone or PC mic then the most important part is that *there are no variables when doing it.* Make sure everything is EXACTLY the same when you make FR charts to compare. If the setup is even slightly different then the findings are meaningless.


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> Horseshoe cotton will affect different drivers different depending on the shell. Again, a thing experimentation will let you know best. But, generally they are used to prevent reverberation...


 bro. What kind of reverberation it affect? is it desirable or non desirable reverberation? Does it also effect bass resonance?


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> bro. What kind of reverberation it affect? is it desirable or non desirable reverberation? Does it also effect bass resonance?




Thiz really depends on the driver 1st and shell 2nd


----------



## notamethlab

In the case of channel imbalance, Left sounds louder than Right, is this solved by switching the wires in the Right driver or vice versa?


----------



## ozkan

notamethlab said:


> In the case of channel imbalance, Left sounds louder than Right, is this solved by switching the wires in the Right driver or vice versa?




You may try blowing some air or vacuuming to the front cover/behind the driver to the left driver. It sounds odd but this method worked on my SHE3800. 

That also solved rattling sound on SHE3800 and LZ Z03a. Hope that helps


----------



## notamethlab

ozkan said:


> You may try blowing some air or vacuuming to the front cover/behind the driver to the left driver. It sounds odd but this method worked on my SHE3800.
> 
> That also solved rattling sound on SHE3800 and LZ Z03a. Hope that helps




Thanks for this! I tried it on the right driver and it's back to normal! Glad I didn't have to mess with them more.


----------



## fairx

I had problem with qian39 rattling bass. Did the same. Slow blow into the driver. Help with qian but not working with she3800. We'll I guess now one of my she3800 not working at all it must be something else. 

On the side note. I can't shake the feeling that qian39 sound less impressive after thorough burn in. I like it when it's new. Tighter sounding.


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> I had problem with qian39 rattling bass. Did the same. Slow blow into the driver. Help with qian but not working with she3800. We'll I guess now one of my she3800 not working at all it must be something else.
> 
> On the side note. I can't shake the feeling that qian39 sound less impressive after thorough burn in. I like it when it's new. Tighter sounding.


 
 terrible stock cable, replace that asap IMO


----------



## golov17

fairx said:


> I had problem with qian39 rattling bass. Did the same. Slow blow into the driver. Help with qian but not working with she3800. We'll I guess now one of my she3800 not working at all it must be something else.
> 
> On the side note. I can't shake the feeling that qian39 sound less impressive after thorough burn in. I like it when it's new. Tighter sounding.


 yep, same here


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> terrible stock cable, replace that asap IMO


I have both. The recable and reterminate sound brighter compared to stock. I found newly arrived qian39 sound best. After 1 day listening to newly arrived qian I gave it to friend for audition. He use it around 20-30 hour and gave it back to me. it still sound impressive. But after 50 hour it started to sound different. Less engaging. Before burn in I don't have to look into music. It came to me. Not long after burn in it started to get lazy and I have to. seek to the sound. As I said before it became less engaging. 

Not sure what happened though. I might save one pair and listen back after left it for a while to test

 It still very good though. But I like it better when it's new.


----------



## weedophile

Ok, got my purchases from AE and Taobao

  
 Now gonna try some of the E808+ that i miss so much before doing anything to the buds. And YES! I got a new solder which looks much better  Came with 60-40 soldering wire too!


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> I have both. The recable and reterminate sound brighter compared to stock. I found newly arrived qian39 sound best. After 1 day listening to newly arrived qian I gave it to friend for audition. He use it around 20-30 hour and gave it back to me. it still sound impressive. But after 50 hour it started to sound different. Less engaging. Before burn in I don't have to look into music. It came to me. Not long after burn in it started to get lazy and I have to. seek to the sound. As I said before it became less engaging.
> 
> Not sure what happened though. I might save one pair and listen back after left it for a while to test
> 
> It still very good though. But I like it better when it's new.




Only thing i can imagine is its weirdly picky about cables but you can find ones that dont brighten up the sound and make the bass bigger.


----------



## fairx

vapman said:


> Only thing i can imagine is its weirdly picky about cables but you can find ones that dont brighten up the sound and make the bass bigger.


I guess from your past suggestion it's the Kz cable?


----------



## ozkan

fairx said:


> I had problem with qian39 rattling bass. Did the same. Slow blow into the driver. Help with qian but not working with she3800. We'll I guess now one of my she3800 not working at all it must be something else.




Have you tried to remove the front plate and check if you could still hear the rattling bass? If not enclosure the plate slowly to the shell. Also you can gently blow some air behind the driver from your mouth. 

It may sound odd but I tried everything blowing to the driver,vacuuming and it worked on my SHE3800. You need to be patient while doing this lol


----------



## vapman

fairx said:


> I guess from your past suggestion it's the Kz cable?


 
 Nope, just anything with thick copper.


----------



## weedophile

Might not mean anything to u guys but it means everything to me. I just did my first DIY buds! The Sony MDR E808+!!

First of all its a milestone for me having very limited soldering skills and no prior knowledge as to how making an earbud. Its like unexplored waters. Even though i dont know how it sounds (the drivers were replacement from taobao, and from the looks of it it aint the original E808+ drivers) now, i still feel awesome.

Anw really appreciate all of the comments here that helped alot. Special mention to @vapman. Vap bro, u are probably the one i look on to the most here, tho i am no basshead but u are the most active and the one who gave great advices!

And lastly, not going to stop here i guess as there are more unexplored waters but i shall swim around before going into deeper waters!



Edit: Other than testing here, anything else i need to test the buds for?


----------



## Brian Coffey

weedophile said:


> Might not mean anything to u guys but it means everything to me. I just did my first DIY buds! The Sony MDR E808+!!
> 
> First of all its a milestone for me having very limited soldering skills and no prior knowledge as to how making an earbud. Its like unexplored waters. Even though i dont know how it sounds (the drivers were replacement from taobao, and from the looks of it it aint the original E808+ drivers) now, i still feel awesome.
> 
> ...


 
 Looks good! Main thing is take your time. Easier not to have problems than it is to fix them.


----------



## weedophile

Thanks @Brian Coffey! Am trying out the buds now. Probably getting all the playtime for the whole weekends


----------



## knudsen

weedophile said:


> Might not mean anything to u guys but it means everything to me. I just did my first DIY buds! The Sony MDR E808+!!


 
  
 Looks great. Do you have an original one to compare to? Is there something under the foam?


----------



## weedophile

@knudsen yeap i still have a few pairs that i cant bear to DIY yet. But to do a fast comparision it would be that the bass is not as apparent, still bassy tho. The sound isnt as forward as it is but after using the "blow in from the back and sucking in through the front" method it is much better, probably also due to my ears getting used to it lol
  
 But i can only say it sound much brighter than the stock which is perfect for me at least!
  
 And i tried to do the frequency test and it starts from 20hz to 18khz which is the same as the stock.
  
 Oh ya and lastly i used some PTFE tape as in my home country getting DIY stuff (the thick silicone tape) is a pain in the ass. Anw the idea was to make the fit better (as the rubber rings made it too big) but it ended up being too big so i removed it lol


----------



## weedophile

Just made my own RY04S! The driver is easier to drive than the E808+, the bass is boomier than the E808+. I have posted the sources in the spoiler with some a better pic of the E808+ and the KZ RY04S. Anw just a quick update on the E808+, the transition between the top, mid and bottom ranges are smoother than the stock itself. But there is something which is not as engaging as the stock as it sounded more laid back probably due to the cables(?)
  
 Anw i think one of the most impt things for DIY is the solder. A decent solder helps so so much lol

  


Spoiler: Spoiler



 

Driver source
  

Driver source


----------



## ozkan

What's the best cable (with microphone) for Monk and SHE3800 at around $20?

And what's the benefit of Rhodium jack?


----------



## fairx

I still haven't touch my e808+ might as well using old some old cable and reterminate. Time to reexamine my. 

BTW last week I reterminate some old Nokia earbud from 2. 5 to 3.5. Lol sound too mid centric. I just toss it back to the drawer.


----------



## weedophile

Went to read the whole of this thread and there are so much valuable knowledge in the past pages and there are some things i would like to know more. Before i begin, really appreciate all the inputs in the thread! U guys are amazing!

Ok some noob questions
1) Is there a need for a digital multimeter? Currently i am using the red for right, green for left method which seem to be working thus far. I saw the braiding done by AudioNewbi3 and was amazed and also inspired to try. Tho not for now. So the thought process in my head is like is one of the wire for the earth and one for the +ve or -ve cable? If that's the case when doing braiding i can just label it before soldering them to a plug
2) For dampening trebles, do u guys put something outside the buds and use the foams to press onto it? Or open up the shell and put it infront of the plastic core? (Seem unlikely as it should in theory affect the vibration)
3) For compatibility, as i have bought some PK2 drivers and some other 15mm drivers, the shells were not compatible. I saw vapman rewired the K64 and changed it with the Qian39 shell. For that do we have use glue to fix it back?
4) If yes to [3], what glue is recommended?
5) Lastly and just to confirm, is a normal hairdryer enough to melt the glue in the earbud?

Sry for the long post but right now i am still amazed at the sound that i can get from the buds that i have. Am still trying to find ways to make the soundstage more forward as i kinda enjoy that. The PK2 that i have are crazy bright so i might try to get a thin piece of serviette infront to try dampening the trebles.

Bass wise i did try to put some blue tack and cotton in the shell (PK2 mod). Did made the bass meatier but didnt affected the brightness.

And lastly i hate to say but i feel like all my IEM purchases to date is a waste of money (except the Tennmak Pro which has decent isolation and great soundstage, tho dark). Hence i am probably offloading some of those to make space for 'priorities' lol


----------



## vapman

A digital multimeter is useful but wont help a lot for earbud building unless you want to know wire resistance or look for continuity.

You need glue or something to mix a yuin shell and 15mm driver cover yeah. 

K64 and q39 are both 15mm so they fit. But i also sent my k39/64 mod to tinkertailor who has had it for months.


----------



## weedophile

vapman said:


> A digital multimeter is useful but wont help a lot for earbud building unless you want to know wire resistance or look for continuity.
> 
> You need glue or something to mix a yuin shell and 15mm driver cover yeah.
> 
> K64 and q39 are both 15mm so they fit. But i also sent my k39/64 mod to @tinkertailor who has had it for months.


 

 Thanks vap bro! That helps alot! I have the same K64 white cables (which was bright and no hint of bass) and of course the Qian39. But the qian 39 is a tad pricey hence i am having a hard time deciding whether to give it the mod lol


----------



## ozkan

weedophile said:


> Went to read the whole of this thread and there are so much valuable knowledge in the past pages and there are some things i would like to know more. Before i begin, really appreciate all the inputs in the thread! U guys are amazing!
> 
> Ok some noob questions
> 1) Is there a need for a digital multimeter? Currently i am using the red for right, green for left method which seem to be working thus far. I saw the braiding done by AudioNewbi3 and was amazed and also inspired to try. Tho not for now. So the thought process in my head is like is one of the wire for the earth and one for the +ve or -ve cable? If that's the case when doing braiding i can just label it before soldering them to a plug
> ...




If you are talking about SHE3800 then Monk cable can bring the mids a bit upfront since the stock cable is not good to start with.


----------



## vapman

weedophile said:


> Thanks vap bro! That helps alot! I have the same K64 white cables (which was bright and no hint of bass) and of course the Qian39. But the qian 39 is a tad pricey hence i am having a hard time deciding whether to give it the mod lol


 
 yeah that k's cable will eat up bass response so save it for something thats too boomy.


----------



## weedophile

@vapman Sounds like something that i am looking for. Silver plated cables are really expensive on AE and TB. Anyway i saw u commented on the other thread that the Yinman was cheap hence u skipped modding the SHE3800. I dont own the Yinman to say for sure but the modded SHE3800 on the Walnut sound pretty awesome (for my untrained ears) lol.
  
 The E808+ still sound abit laid back tho the bass is really punchy. Am contemplating switching shells but it doesnt fit into the MX500. Havent tried the horseshoe foam behind the driver though and is unsure if it will make any difference. If only i can have an additional 6hrs a day -.-


----------



## vapman

weedophile said:


> @vapman Sounds like something that i am looking for. Silver plated cables are really expensive on AE and TB. Anyway i saw u commented on the other thread that the Yinman was cheap hence u skipped modding the SHE3800. I dont own the Yinman to say for sure but the modded SHE3800 on the Walnut sound pretty awesome (for my untrained ears) lol.
> 
> The E808+ still sound abit laid back tho the bass is really punchy. Am contemplating switching shells but it doesnt fit into the MX500. Havent tried the horseshoe foam behind the driver though and is unsure if it will make any difference. If only i can have an additional 6hrs a day -.-


 
 Well i think in SG you can get a Yinman for less than trying to get one out west. But, unless you already own all the soldering gear you need, and get a prefab cable off aliexpress, its gonna be hard to beat the price of a yinman 150 for parts and stuff. But, if you have a station set up and know what kind of cable you'd like to use, a she3800 mod is certainly more economical.


----------



## golov17




----------



## weedophile

vapman said:


> Well i think in SG you can get a Yinman for less than trying to get one out west. But, unless you already own all the soldering gear you need, and get a prefab cable off aliexpress, its gonna be hard to beat the price of a yinman 150 for parts and stuff. But, if you have a station set up and know what kind of cable you'd like to use, a she3800 mod is certainly more economical.


 

 T.T i just added it in my cart. Ever since it was listed on the cklewis store, i was taking note of it as it has a dope look. Gotta decide if i'm going to get it in the next few days as i am thinking of offloading those IEMs that i will probably not use again lol. Coupled that with the flattering impressions of it so far
  
@golov17 big bro are those rhodium plugs? If so they are really a good deal


----------



## golov17

Not rhodium


----------



## mochill

50mm speaker unit high impedance 540ohms Beryllium film Double magnetic High resolution
 http://s.aliexpress.com/ZjQrmMZz 
(from AliExpress Android)

XD


----------



## Brian Coffey

mochill said:


> 50mm speaker unit high impedance 540ohms Beryllium film Double magnetic High resolution
> http://s.aliexpress.com/ZjQrmMZz
> (from AliExpress Android)
> 
> XD


 
 Looks good for Headphones 50mm is a little big for buds...Lol


----------



## mochill

I know, but will be good diy


----------



## weedophile

Cabled the 2nd Yuin PK2 style earbuds and i am liking this alot more as compared to the oxygen free cable this sounded less bright. Now these 2 are my favourites. The E808+ sound too laid back for my liking, and it might move up the list if i managed to find some way to fix it.
  
 The heavily modded SHE3800 with blu-tack and cotton sounds very good, the bass is very punchy still even though i tried to control it, and it has a very "studio like" presentation which sounds really awesome. The trebles are not its forte but the mids are noticeably better than stock.

 The Yuin PK2 on the other hand is bass shy, but its clarity and detailed presentation is a win, and by a very big margin. Moreover the body is small and comfortable to fall aslp with. Its not really modded, with just the noise blocking foam at the back of the shell. The cables were used for my failed E808+ (first try) and stock Benjie bud (2nd try) where i cut out the tip if the wire and strip, remove insulation and solder again.
  
 I like both of them as they produce very different music, though both sound forward which is something i kinda like. Either way was enjoying both while listening to some classic songs and this is freaking amazing!


----------



## knudsen

weedophile said:


> Cabled the 2nd Yuin PK2 style earbuds and i am liking this alot more as compared to the oxygen free cable this sounded less bright. Now these 2 are my favourites. The E808+ sound too laid back for my liking, and it might move up the list if i managed to find some way to fix it.


 
  
 You would'nt have a photo of the dissected she3800 - how much cotton is in there etc?


----------



## weedophile

knudsen
Not too much, just enough to block out the 2 vents at the back. If i am not mistaken, there are 2 smaller vents below the blocked vents which i left them open as having some air to pass through will be good for bass.


No opening of shells and the tape are ptse tape as they are handy, gives better seal and a substitute to rubber rings and it cost next to nothing and i did managed to make a small crack on the driver housing lol

If anyone is wondering, the buds are sitting on Bart's approved nut.


----------



## noknok23

Hello, can someone confirm me if this is correct?  or this? I'm confused also any guide for the clueless on how to reterminate cable? Thanks


----------



## DBaldock9

Question for the Mod'ers -
  
 I'm examining the Qian39, and I see:
 1.) Black & Silver Backshell  (seems to be one piece)
 2.) Black Ring  (also seems to be one piece)
 3.) Silver Metal Screen (in-front of driver)
  
 It appears that the Ring & Screen will need to be removed, allowing access to the driver, to replace / upgrade the wiring.
 I've pushed and pulled a bit on the Ring, with my fingernails, and it it's not coming loose.
  
 Since I want to be able to reassemble and use these earbuds - What's the trick / procedure for getting to the driver, without damaging the Qian39?
  

  
  
 Thanks,
 David Baldock


----------



## tinkertailor

> \
> Since I want to be able to reassemble and use these earbuds - What's the trick / procedure for getting to the driver, without damaging the Qian39?
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just popped the ring off with my finger nail like any other bud. Its a bit stiffer and dificult to remove than an mx500 style bud but i didn't need a heat gun or insane force. The black ring comes off with the grill and the driver is attached to the grill


----------



## DBaldock9

tinkertailor said:


> I just popped the ring off with my finger nail like any other bud. Its a bit stiffer and dificult to remove than an mx500 style bud but i didn't need a heat gun or insane force. The black ring comes off with the grill and the driver is attached to the grill


 
  
 Thanks.  This morning, I used a bit more force with my fingernails, and was able to get the Rings to un-clip from the ridges on the Backshells.
  
 It appears that, on the Qian39, when looking at the back of the drivers, with the notch at the top -
 1.) Left driver has Red marking on the Left side
 2.) Right driver has Red marking on the Right side
  
 I've cut the 6-meter length of upgrade wire that I ordered, into four 1.5-meter pieces.
 Now, I need to braid/twist them into a new cable assembly, solder it to the drivers & one of the Ranko 2.5mm TRRS plugs, and reassemble the earbuds.


----------



## vapman

dbaldock9 said:


> Thanks.  This morning, I used a bit more force with my fingernails, and was able to get the Rings to un-clip from the ridges on the Backshells.
> 
> It appears that, on the Qian39, when looking at the back of the drivers, with the notch at the top -
> 1.) Left driver has Red marking on the Left side
> ...


 
 The 39 are some of the easiest to mod once you get the front cover off. Good luck with em!
  
 What cable are you using btw? Just curious, what material it is.


----------



## DBaldock9

vapman said:


> The 39 are some of the easiest to mod once you get the front cover off. Good luck with em!
> 
> What cable are you using btw? Just curious, what material it is.


 
  
 I bought one, 6-meter piece, of this wire, just to see if I like it - 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Super-soft-DIY-fever-line-161core-diameter-0-83mm-Price-is-for-6meters/32790469558.html


----------



## DBaldock9

I've got the four wires soldered & secured in the Ranko 2.5mm TRRS plug.
  

  
  
 For those of you who braid / twist your own cable assemblies - How do you hold the connector securely, in order to get a good tight braid / twist, without damaging either the connector or the wires?
  
 Any suggestions would be helpful.  (*NOTE:*  I don't have a workbench with a vise in this Apartment...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )
  
  
 Thanks,
 David Baldock


----------



## DBaldock9

Don't know whether they're stocking the drivers and parts you may want for your DIY use, but Chitty's Store has some 50% - 90% discounts going on - https://greensense.aliexpress.com/store/group/Discount-50-90/323026_511097207.html
  
 I'm wondering about the 150ohms, pk1 unit, 14.8mm driver - for $6 /pair?
 Which shell would that fit best in?


----------



## golov17

dbaldock9 said:


> Don't know whether they're stocking the drivers and parts you may want for your DIY use, but Chitty's Store has some 50% - 90% discounts going on - https://greensense.aliexpress.com/store/group/Discount-50-90/323026_511097207.html
> 
> I'm wondering about the 150ohms, pk1 unit, 14.8mm driver - for $6 /pair?
> Which shell would that fit best in?


 DIY-ear ear PK1 2 3 4 shell cavity fever ears headphones hifi headphones bass PK earbud
 http://s.aliexpress.com/uQrIbMV3


----------



## DBaldock9

Well, I've got the cable braided & twisted.  Decided to use some heatshrink (clear over red (right) and yellow (left)), rather than a solid splitter of some sort.
  
 I guess tomorrow, I'll work on inserting the wires into the Qian39 shells, and soldering them to the drivers.


----------



## DBaldock9

Completed (and I added some thick Black / White VE foams, after the photo) -


----------



## DBaldock9

dbaldock9 said:


> I bought one, 6-meter piece, of this wire, just to see if I like it -
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Super-soft-DIY-fever-line-161core-diameter-0-83mm-Price-is-for-6meters/32790469558.html


 
  
 Update on this wire -
  
 I like the size and color, and it solders easily - but it's not as soft & flexible as I was hoping for.
 It's also a bit microphonic - mostly noticeable when music isn't playing (I'm wearing the Qian39 over-the-ear).


----------



## noknok23

my first mod ever lol. I was a bit distracted and forgot to put the jack protection first. Still I'm happy with the design. Aune m1s balanced output is ridiculously good.
After this one i did the campfred. It's more clean
edit: it's not, the sound on the campfred is actually in mono and a bit distant. I suspect i soldered the ground wire wrong. I ll fix this tomorrow. =_=
Monk is working very well though.


Ok it's fixed now. Dirty work again because conditions. But sounds is what i care most for now 

Next step: i will recable qian 25. Maybe try out some mods. What do you guys suggest? Cotton


----------



## weedophile

Finally back to home from my holiday in Vietnam! But to find the infection on my right ear to be worse than last week. So no bud or IEM for me for the next week or so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 On the bright side, probably can give my clip-ons some listening time and my headphone lol


----------



## noknok23

Hey guys, which cable do you get over Aliexpress ? Also does drivers sounds good out of the box or tuning is necessary?


----------



## DBaldock9

noknok23 said:


> Hey guys, which cable do you get over Aliexpress ? Also does drivers sounds good out of the box or tuning is necessary?



The first wire I ordered from AliExpress, is described a few posts above.  It was a single-strand wire, so I cut it into 4 equal lengths, and braided them together.

The second wire I ordered, arrived yesterday.  It's a pre-twisted 4-strand wire, and I bought the Blue one - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10M...rong-Hifi-Earphone-Cable-For/32801275332.html
I'll be using it to rewire several different earbuds (Blue Qian25 & Blue Vido) - as well as making some balanced & un-balanced extensions & adapters.

The third wire I've ordered, is still in transit (will probably be several weeks before it arrives).  It's another OCC copper wire, pre-twisted, with 8 cores (strands) - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fle...-Fidelidad-Auriculares-DIY-8/32784850684.html
I think I'll use it to modify/rewire my Beyerdynamic DT-831 Headphones (I've got some mini-XLR connectors ordered), and will probably make a balanced extension cable, as well.

I haven't purchased any earbud drivers, to make DIY models from scratch, but I suspect you can modify their stock sound by using damping/tuning material in the earbud shell.


----------



## headjelly

Hey guys, are there recommended braiding and tuning manuals/instructions online? I figured out the soldering, so now I am trying to figure the tuning and braiding)))


----------



## DBaldock9

headjelly said:


> Hey guys, are there recommended braiding and tuning manuals/instructions online? I figured out the soldering, so now I am trying to figure the tuning and braiding)))



I used this particular braid, for 4 wires - 

Haven't done any experiments with driver / housing tuning, yet.


----------



## headjelly

DBaldock9 said:


> I used this particular braid, for 4 wires -
> 
> Haven't done any experiments with driver / housing tuning, yet.




So, you soldered two different ground wires to the connector? Is that what everybody does or do people also use three wires (L,R, ground) and then connect two wires to the ground one inside the splitter?


----------



## headjelly

DBaldock9 said:


> The second wire I ordered, arrived yesterday.  It's a pre-twisted 4-strand wire, and I bought the Blue one - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10M...rong-Hifi-Earphone-Cable-For/32801275332.html


Have you used the second wire already? How do you like it compared to the first one? Was it easy to unbraid the ends?


----------



## DBaldock9

headjelly said:


> So, you soldered two different ground wires to the connector? Is that what everybody does or do people also use three wires (L,R, ground) and then connect two wires to the ground one inside the splitter?



I was assembling a Balanced cable (using a Ranko 2.5mm TRRS 4-Pole Plug), so each of the 4 wires was soldered to a separate pin on the plug:
Tip = (L-)
Ring1 = (L+)
Ring2 = (R+)
Sleeve = (R-)

If you're assembling a Single-ended cable (3.5mm TRS 3-Pole Plug), then you can make the choice of:
1.) Running a single GND from the Plug Sleeve to the Splitter, solder both earbuds' GND wire to it, and then run 2 wires (+) (-) to each earbud driver from the splitter.
2.) Solder GND wires for each earbud driver to the Plug Sleeve, and run 2 wires (+) (-) to each driver.


----------



## DBaldock9

headjelly said:


> Have you used the second wire already? How do you like it compared to the first one? Was it easy to unbraid the ends?



I haven't used the new wire yet, but I'll be rewiring my Qian25 (as Balanced) this weekend.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> ...
> 
> The second wire I ordered, arrived yesterday.  It's a pre-twisted 4-strand wire, and I bought the Blue one - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10M...rong-Hifi-Earphone-Cable-For/32801275332.html
> I'll be using it to rewire several different earbuds (Blue Qian25 & Blue Vido) - as well as making some balanced & un-balanced extensions & adapters.
> ...



I used the blue pre-twisted 4-strand wire this afternoon, to rewire one set of Qian25 for Balanced use.
While it does look nicer than the stock black cable, it's not really any larger wire gauge, so there's no real performance advantage to using this particular cable.  I won't buy any more of this wire.

One thing about the blue wire that's a nuisance, is that the insulation melts and shrinks away from the wire when tinning or soldering the wire.  So for closely spaced connections, like on a 2.5mm TRRS plug, you have to be extra careful that adjacent terminals don't short, due to the insulation shrinkage.

I've attached a photo of the stock Qian25 (with 3.5mm TRS 3-Pole Plug), the rewired Qian25 (with Ranko 2.5mm TRRS 4-Pole Plug), and the end of the blue wire (showing the 2-pairs of twisted wires, twisted together).

With a quick comparison (using a 3.5mm TRS Plug -to- 2.5mm TRRS Jack Adapter), they sound basically the same when driven by my iFi Micro iDSD, playing FLAC files of my CDs.  When the Balanced cable is connected to the Balanced output of my DP-X1, playing the same FLAC files, there is the usual slightly better Bass performance, and the more open Sound Stage.


----------



## weedophile (May 1, 2017)

As requested by @headjelly, the modded Awei ES10 with MX500 shells. The ES10 OOTB is one of the better sounding buds. At 16mm, it sports the largest driver amongst earbuds (correct me if i am wrong).

The reason i did the mod was due to the cheap feel of the stock shells. It wasnt easy though as the shells were glued to the driver. I didnt had a heat torch hence i just forced it open. Luckily it was the shell that broke and not the driver lmao.

The MX500 shell was abit too small for the driver and hence i got around by using the trusty blutack.

SQ wise i would say they are probably balanced with good bass and trebles. Mids are no slouch too. The change of shells didnt really affected the sound which idk why as the design of the vents were different. I used the standard horseshoe sound-block foam at the usual place with some added cotton at the hole where the cables were to reduce the cable movement.

However the placebo effect of having a nicer shell kicked in as i felt it look nicer and had a "premium" feel. Japanese has a saying "u eat what u see" so i would say "u hear what u see" lol. I didnt wanted to use the stock ES10 initially but after the change it was my go to desktop bud, no kidding.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> I used the blue pre-twisted 4-strand wire this afternoon, to rewire one set of Qian25 for Balanced use.
> While it does look nicer than the stock black cable, it's not really any larger wire gauge, so there's no real performance advantage to using this particular cable.  I won't buy any more of this wire.
> 
> One thing about the blue wire that's a nuisance, is that the insulation melts and shrinks away from the wire when tinning or soldering the wire.  So for closely spaced connections, like on a 2.5mm TRRS plug, you have to be extra careful that adjacent terminals don't short, due to the insulation shrinkage.
> ...



Spent a couple of hours last night, un-twisting the remaining 9-meters of blue wire, into the 2 pairs of twisted wire.
Then I doubled them over, and I'm now working on braiding the 4 sets of 2-twisted wires into a ~4.5 meter 8-Strand cable.
Having twice as many wires per terminal, may help improve the audio performance of the blue wire.


----------



## rggz

DBaldock9 said:


> One thing about the blue wire that's a nuisance, is that the insulation melts and shrinks away from the wire when tinning or soldering the wire.  So for closely spaced connections, like on a 2.5mm TRRS plug, you have to be extra careful that adjacent terminals don't short, due to the insulation shrinkage.



Is there some tip to tin this wire? I got a similar one but it's not easy to tin it like a pure copper cable (cat6 style) I just can't get a secure connection. I'll appreciate any help!


----------



## DBaldock9

Well, I'm using an old XYTronic Auto-Temp 168-3C adjustable temperature solder station, that I bought back in the early- or mid-1980s.
The temperature has been stuck (until tonight, when I managed to loosen the potentiometer) at a fairly high setting, between 300°C & 400°C, and I'm using WBT-0820 Silver Solder w/Flux.
When I've had trouble tinning or soldering things, it was usually remedied by using additional flux to clean the surfaces.


----------



## flexy321 (May 24, 2017)

Here my input about the "Ozkan Mod" with the SHE3800s. This is just my experience.

* My SHE3800 had the "tuning foam" fixed to the housing, and not to the driver as in the original pic of the Ozkan mod.
I got confused since I didn't see the logic in replacing the "tuning foam" with cotton...or is the idea here that the cotton works better than the foam?

* The casing of my SHE3800 seemed slightly different from the one on the picture. (Aside from the fact that I needed to remove the "tuning foam" since it covered access to the casing. I first thought that the BluTac was for covering a larger hole at the bottom, but there is none, just the (tiny) hole for the wire.
What is not clear to me is the purpose of the BluTack since it's not 100% possible to "plug" the already very tiny "wire hole" since when you reassemble the earbud, you will likely slightly need to pull the wire so you end up opening up this hole again anyway..respective can't 100% "plug it shut". (Is the idea here to plug the "wire hole"?)

(Alternatively, you possibly have some other type of casing where the BluTack covers a bigger hole at the bottom but which is not visible on the picture??)

* My main "issue" with the mod..to get the cotton as neatly covering the back of the driver as in the original post. I have not the slightest idea how he did this! I merely wrapped about 1/2 or so of Q-Tip cotton around the driver, but then merely stuffed it by shutting the casing again. Not clear to me what exactly he did and especially how he got the cotton to stick flat on the driver. (Did you possibly use a thin ear bud foam for putting on the driver? And what did you do with the tuning foam which on your pic is on the driver?

* Opening the casing proved more difficult than what some said. (I opened cases in the past, like for my SONYs. They were not glued.). Here, I needed to use quite some force with my fingernails, they were glued shut, and it looks something did indeed break although the case still closes,but of course it's not "pretty" especially with some cotton still coming out on the sides. (Yeah a better description for simply saying it looks like shhh  )

* Subjective impression (Not meant as criticism of the mod at all! It's awesome we have people modding and sharing their experiences!). Yes the bass is less pronounced ("tamer", possibly the best word for it)...but really hard to say whether it made the sound "better", it's all subjective anyway. I am finding that I have possibly enough control using my EQ (I am on a PC with Soundblaster Z so I am using the EQ) which would outweigh what I get from modding. Or said differently, I possibly don't "need" the mod since I can do this with an EQ. Just my $0.02


----------



## ozkan (May 25, 2017)

flexy321 said:


> Here my input about the "Ozkan Mod" with the SHE3800s. This is just my experience.
> 
> * My SHE3800 had the "tuning foam" fixed to the housing, and not to the driver as in the original pic of the Ozkan mod.
> I got confused since I didn't see the logic in replacing the "tuning foam" with cotton...or is the idea here that the cotton works better than the foam?
> ...



I didn't remove the tuning foam. I just put a small piece of cotton on the foam that I tore from a cotton ball. Nothing more.

Blutac is for reducing the resonance caused by the shell. For me the the cotton decrease the bass for the cost of being faster and less boomy. It brings the mids a bit forward, increase the treble extension and expands the soundstage. And the blutac does almost the same thing. I cannot exactly be sure now since it has been a long time.

I'll take pictures of my mod again when I have time and post here soon


----------



## flexy321

ozkan said:


> I didn't remove the tuning foam. I just put a small piece of cotton on the foam that I tore from a cotton ball. Nothing more.
> 
> Blutac is for reducing the resonance caused by the shell. For me the the cotton decrease the bass for the cost of being faster and less boomy. It brings the mids a bit forward, increase the treble extension and expands the soundstage. And the blutac does almost the same thing. I cannot exactly be sure now since it has been a long time.
> 
> I'll take pictures of my mod again when I have time and post here soon



Thanks, that makes sense!


----------



## flexy321 (May 25, 2017)

Re: Ozkan Mod for SH3800 again

It's hard to see from the pictures in the original post, but it's possible that the tuning foam you had on yours (which is glued to the driver and not glued to the shell like with mine) is a thinner type of foam? The picture sort of seems suggesting this.

Mine is this horseshoe-type foam like here on the pic which seems a little thicker.  Which again would mean there is possible different builds of this bud.






Add: I found the "perfect" DIY "tuning cotton" substitute which is nice to work with: Organic cotton that you can get in vaping stores. They usually come in squares/blocks and you can pull off straight sheets of cotton in whatever thickness you want. You can cut a disk the size of a penny w/ a hole in the middle, then a slit etc..  I found it better to work w/ than normal cotton since this would "puff up" (unless you press it or something) and then takes away too much bass, in my opinion.

Anyway I am a total noob here, and I am sure the pros know about other materials..I can see how different viscosity etc. could impact the sound. Sure a can of worms topic there to tune earbuds


----------



## Blueshound24 (May 25, 2017)

edit, wrong thread.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> I used the blue pre-twisted 4-strand wire this afternoon, to rewire one set of Qian25 for Balanced use.
> While it does look nicer than the stock black cable, it's not really any larger wire gauge, so there's no real performance advantage to using this particular cable.  I won't buy any more of this wire.
> 
> One thing about the blue wire that's a nuisance, is that the insulation melts and shrinks away from the wire when tinning or soldering the wire.  So for closely spaced connections, like on a 2.5mm TRRS plug, you have to be extra careful that adjacent terminals don't short, due to the insulation shrinkage.
> ...



This weekend, I re-re-wired the Qian25 with the 8-strand braided cable that I made from the 4-strand twisted wire.
So, now the Blue Qian25 and Blue Vido look basically the same, except for the different colored heatshrink at the split, and the fact that the Vido shells say _Vido_ on the side.
The sound of the Qian25 and Vido are very similar, as well.

Another 1.2m piece of the 8-strand braided cable is being used to re-wire the BHOBuds MAG7 that I bought from @vapman - also with a balanced 2.5mm TRRS plug.
The final 36" of the 8-strand braided cable will be used to make a 2.5mm TRRS Plug to 2.5mm TRRS Jack extension cable.

I still need to find a good, soft, flexible copper wire, available in multiple colors, to use for additional re-wiring projects.  I'd prefer that the wire have a high temperature insulation, so it doesn't melt when tinning & soldering the wire.


----------



## ozkan

Well I tried Blu-tac mod and it seems to work on Vido as well.  

Needless to say it sounds better. What we have now is a more refined Vido.


----------



## DBaldock9

Does Blu-tac remain pliable?
Is it stickier than Play Doh?


----------



## ozkan (Jun 13, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> Does Blu-tac remain pliable?
> Is it stickier than Play Doh?



No worries mate. You can remove it very easily and doesn't leave any traces.


----------



## vladstef (Jun 17, 2017)

I am new to earbuds, but have an idea (which is very likely quite terrible). I've listened to FAD Piano and was just impressed by how realistic they sound and how comfortable the housing is. I have a theory that sound that comes out of them has relatively little to do with drivers and more with the shape of housing and the way it reshapes the sound coming out of dynamic driver. So, I am thinking of creating my first diy earbuds using Vido driver (unreal value, 4$ earbuds, amazing sound, just disgusting looking and feeling) and FAD Piano housing (costs a bit over 30$) with some nice budget-y cables. So, these would cost about 50$ in total. Would it be worth it, could it improve sound, build, feel of it, would this end up being somewhat of a mid-fi earbud? (I would find a way to wrap or paint the outside of FAD casing, that is for sure, so it would look quite premium - in theory)

I am aware that this is very unorthodox thing to consider, so all of this might be more realistic if I were to use a better driver (this would increase the price a lot, especially as this would be my first diy project, so that might end up being an upgrade a few years down the road, just replacing the driver?)


----------



## MusicplayerHK

Where can i get Egger LP/H Modeling paste?need a good price,
 thanks


----------



## slappypete

vladstef said:


> I am thinking of creating my first diy earbuds using Vido driver (unreal value, 4$ earbuds, amazing sound, just disgusting looking and feeling) and FAD Piano housing



I like the idea. I just ordered a pair of FAD housings to try it out myself. I've never heard the FAD piano series, but always wanted to try the design out. As far as how these will sound, well I don't think anyone is going to be able to tell you that until someone tries it. They could be great, could be terrible, who knows. I will make a post in here sharing my impressions when they are done.


----------



## vladstef (Jun 17, 2017)

slappypete said:


> I like the idea. I just ordered a pair of FAD housings to try it out myself. I've never heard the FAD piano series, but always wanted to try the design out. As far as how these will sound, well I don't think anyone is going to be able to tell you that until someone tries it. They could be great, could be terrible, who knows. I will make a post in here sharing my impressions when they are done.


These shells will have an impact on the sound, that is for sure. Hopefully it will be a positive thing. Also, it would channel all of the driver sound to your ear canal, something that earbuds generally struggle with. They are the most comfortable thing you can put in/on ears, nothing comes close to them, you feel their weight, but they stay nicely put and there are no edges.
I am gonna do this a few months from now, so, it would be nice if you could take a few photos of your progress. I have a few concerns, like, how would the driver fit in the housing. Potential issues could happen if the driver is too thick near the edges and the casing wont fully close. I'll put some photos here from aliexpress feedback post, 16mm driver that is not exactly thick wouldn't fit. Vido driver is 15,4mm, but it has plastic around which is next to impossible to remove without damaging driver, so it would have to fit with the whole plastic part. Maybe I could "shave off" some of the plastic around driver without removing it...



Spoiler: FAD Casing with 16mm driver not closing






















Spoiler: MX500 driver - similar to Vido driver


----------



## slappypete

vladstef said:


> These shells will have an impact on the sound, that is for sure. Hopefully it will be a positive thing. Also, it would channel all of the driver sound to your ear canal, something that earbuds generally struggle with. They are the most comfortable thing you can put in/on ears, nothing comes close to them, you feel their weight, but they stay nicely put and there are no edges.
> I am gonna do this a few months from now, so, it would be nice if you could take a few photos of your progress. I have a few concerns, like, how would the driver fit in the housing. Potential issues could happen if the driver is too thick near the edges and the casing wont fully close. I'll put some photos here from aliexpress feedback post, 16mm driver that is not exactly thick wouldn't fit. Vido driver is 15,4mm, but it has plastic around which is next to impossible to remove without damaging driver, so it would have to fit with the whole plastic part. Maybe I could "shave off" some of the plastic around driver without removing it...



I will post photos for sure. I was thinking about the driver fit as well. I think I will be able to make it work somehow. Removing the plastic front cover from MX500 style drivers isn't all that hard actually. I have done it a few times now. I just used an exacto knife to cut the plastic off about half way around the perimeter of the driver, then carefully pried the edge of the driver up to get it out. You need to make sure whatever you use to pry only touches the side of the driver and doesn't slip and damage the driver membrane. The driver membranes have a metal outer ring on them that rests on the rear part of the driver. The membrane and rear part of the driver are not glued together. They just sit on each other, so you need to be careful not to pull them apart or twist them because you will damage the tiny voice coil wires. It is a little tricky to do, but with patience doable. 


Spoiler: Liberated MX500 Style Drivers


----------



## vladstef (Jun 17, 2017)

slappypete said:


> I will post photos for sure. I was thinking about the driver fit as well. I think I will be able to make it work somehow. Removing the plastic front cover from MX500 style drivers isn't all that hard actually. I have done it a few times now. I just used an exacto knife to cut the plastic off about half way around the perimeter of the driver, then carefully pried the edge of the driver up to get it out. You need to make sure whatever you use to pry only touches the side of the driver and doesn't slip and damage the driver membrane. The driver membranes have a metal outer ring on them that rests on the rear part of the driver. The membrane and rear part of the driver are not glued together. They just sit on each other, so you need to be careful not to pull them apart or twist them because you will damage the tiny voice coil wires. It is a little tricky to do, but with patience doable.



I am 100% sure now that it is necessary to remove that plastic, at least to some extent. Maybe it will be enough to remove the overhanging plastic lip that goes around, to keep the driver thin on the outskirts. But, removing plastic entirely, even if I have to go through couple of earbuds to get the drivers out without damaging them it will still be ok, as the total price of this project has very little to do with driver cost. How much glue is used to keep driver inside that plastic, or is it just friction that keeps it from falling out? When you have driver in 2 pieces like that, connected with the tiniest of coils, does the membrane stay put nicely on the metal/magnet, or is it flimsy and needs a physical barrier next to membrane to kinda keep it close to the magnet?
If the membrane can easily dislodge and get separated from the rest of the driver, completely removing plastic is not the way, then we need to put it inside with plastic on top of membrane, or need a different sort of driver for it, closer to what is in the original Piano Forte, something like:


Spoiler: Drivers with fixed membrane

















Spoiler: Original FAD Piano Forte construction


----------



## slappypete

vladstef said:


> I am 100% sure now that it is necessary to remove that plastic, at least to some extent. Maybe it will be enough to remove the overhanging plastic lip that goes around, to keep the driver thin on the outskirts. But, removing plastic entirely, even if I have to go through couple of earbuds to get the drivers out without damaging them it will still be ok, as the total price of this project has very little to do with driver cost. How much glue is used to keep driver inside that plastic, or is it just friction that keeps it from falling out? When you have driver in 2 pieces like that, connected with the tiniest of coils, does the membrane stay put nicely on the metal/magnet, or is it flimsy and needs a physical barrier next to membrane to kinda keep it close to the magnet?
> If the membrane can easily dislodge and get separated from the rest of the driver, completely removing plastic is not the way, then we need to put it inside with plastic on top of membrane, or need a different sort of driver for it, closer to what is in the original Piano Forte



There is very little glue used to keep the drivers in place, but it is enough to do the job... more than just friction. The glue is very gummy, so the drivers pull out easily when pried. The two pieces of the driver stay together well enough when they are liberated from the plastic, but I think it would be necessary to have some sort of barrier touching them around the edges when the drivers are in use. My plan will likely be to sand the plastic down to the point that it will snugly fit in the housings. This will be easy enough. I'll just tape off the front of the driver first to protect it from sanding particles. I might still try a liberated driver just to see how they differ in measurements. The plastic cover over the drivers likely has an effect on the frequency response. It could be better or worse without it. I haven't experimented with that sort of thing on earbuds yet, but I know from playing around with full size headphones that the holes in the plastic grill in front of a driver can play a role in shaping high frequency response.


----------



## vladstef

slappypete said:


> There is very little glue used to keep the drivers in place, but it is enough to do the job... more than just friction. The glue is very gummy, so the drivers pull out easily when pried. The two pieces of the driver stay together well enough when they are liberated from the plastic, but I think it would be necessary to have some sort of barrier touching them around the edges when the drivers are in use. My plan will likely be to sand the plastic down to the point that it will snugly fit in the housings. This will be easy enough. I'll just tape off the front of the driver first to protect it from sanding particles. I might still try a liberated driver just to see how they differ in measurements. The plastic cover over the drivers likely has an effect on the frequency response. It could be better or worse without it. I haven't experimented with that sort of thing on earbuds yet, but I know from playing around with full size headphones that the holes in the plastic grill in front of a driver can play a role in shaping high frequency response.


Thank you for all this useful information, you kinda saved me. This project is perhaps too much for someone who has never done anything diy related to audio and this conversation cleared a lot of things for me (although, we are talking about a very specific thing). Can't wait to see how yours end up looking/sounding. I am slightly too hyped for this, it really has the potential to be amazing or a total disaster  At least they are gonna be beautiful and the casing can be reused for a nice decoration of some sorts, an homage to Final and their unconventional designs.


----------



## slappypete (Jun 17, 2017)

vladstef said:


> Thank you for all this useful information, you kinda saved me. This project is perhaps too much for someone who has never done anything diy related to audio and this conversation cleared a lot of things for me (although, we are talking about a very specific thing). Can't wait to see how yours end up looking/sounding. I am slightly too hyped for this, it really has the potential to be amazing or a total disaster  At least they are gonna be beautiful and the casing can be reused for a nice decoration of some sorts, an homage to Final and their unconventional designs.



I am excited as well  I am mostly hoping I'll be able to get a fairly full range response out of them. I haven't heard any of the piano forte series but I've read a lot of reviews saying they roll off way early at both ends of the spectrum. I don't know if the reviewers were used to high end IEM's though, which obviously have better extension in both directions compared to an earbud. It would be interesting to me to hear your thoughts on how they sound compared to a typical good quality earbud if you can remember. I read a lot of reviews praising the soundstage, and I wonder how it compares as well since a good earbud will have a much more expansive and out of head feeling soundstage compared to a typical IEM.


----------



## vladstef (Jun 17, 2017)

slappypete said:


> I am excited as well  I am mostly hoping I'll be able to get a fairly full range response out of them. I haven't heard any of the piano forte series but I've read a lot of reviews saying they roll off way early at both ends of the spectrum. I don't know if the reviewers were used to high end IEM's though, which obviously have crazy extension in both directions compared to an earbud. It would be interesting to me to hear your thoughts on how they sound compared to a typical good quality earbud if you can remember. I read a lot of reviews praising the soundstage, and I wonder how it compares as well since a good earbud will have a much more expansive and out of head feeling soundstage compared to a typical IEM.


Slightly off topic, but it touches on what we are trying to achieve in diy way. I do remember how these sounded quite clearly, as I didn't even know they existed before I saw them and heard them moments later. I was in shock, to say the least, they sounded way too real, analog, old school (roll off on both sides). I specifically remember how percussion instruments and trumpets sounded, there was a sort of timbre in the background, not something that can be easily explained, almost to say artificial and colored, sounds bouncing and getting better with it, almost bigger than life - this is why the soundstage and presentation of sound is close to perfect. Also, they don't extend into sub bass and that didn't bother me, but higher tones lacked audible refinement, maybe I needed to adjust more to them, maybe they really do lack in that area. They are special but offer terrible value.
I didn't hear any earbuds worth mentioning, waiting to receive Vido and Auglamour RX1 to see if it's right for me, earbuds are way too praised as of late. I suspect that driver of Vido is technically better all-rounder than Piano Forte VIII, I know it sounds crazy to compare 4$ earbuds vs 1000$+ "earbuds", but keep in mind that Piano driver is colored and specifically tuned for that housing/desired sound/mid-centric music. If the casing ends up adding that special sauce to a regular inexpensive driver, we might end up with something amazing and far more valuable than the sum of its parts. Maybe the casing ends up revealing driver flaws, we can't know for sure, yet.


----------



## slappypete

@vladstef thanks for the sound impressions. Basically what I am most curious about is whether or not the piano forte driver was actually designed to be very mid centric, or if that is just a result of the weird housings.  We will find out soon enough... well maybe not soon enough, aliexpress shipping to Canada takes some time haha.


----------



## fairx

After little modding on my ty 320 yesterday I'm curious about getting shoehorse type of foam for driver filter. I remember seeing them on aliexpress but not very sure now. Anybody bought them before? How's your finding?


----------



## DBaldock9

Well, I've placed an order for enough parts to assemble 9 pairs of earbuds - various drivers (Vocal, Bass, Subwoofer (as described on the AliExpress pages)), various MX760 & MX500 shells, various driver tuning foams, various colors of wire, and 3.5mm TRS plugs.

This should be a fun experiment.

I wonder if the color of wire will make the biggest difference in sound quality?


----------



## slappypete

Today I opened up my Vido looking to recable it for furthur comparisons vs CF2. The shells were a struggle to open, but once I got in there the drivers were very easy to liberate from the front baffle. One popped out all on its own when I finally got the shell open.

I viewed this as an oportunity to do a comparison between different front baffles/grills. In the past I have taken lots of measurements of various mods on full size headphones, and I find making changes to the baffle/grill in front of a driver often results in a change in treble response. Measurements I’ve taken of earbuds have shown that many (but not all) mx500 style earbuds share a similar treble FR curve from about 7kHz onward, and I suspected this might at least in part be due to the design of the baffle. The buds in my collection with the best treble extension are the MX980, Shozy BK, and Edifier H180. The baffles on all of these are different from the mx500 as well as each other. I had some metal baffles I purchased from Taobao, as well as a SHE3800 baffle (same as Edifier H180) on hand for experimenting with. Here are some photos of liberated Vido drivers, different baffles, and FR graphs comparing them:


Spoiler: Drivers, Baffles, FR Graphs




 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 





The metal baffle and SHE3800 baffle both seem to offer better treble extension beyond 10kHz, but at the expense of less energy between 5-10kHz. The metal baffle effects the response all the way back to about 1kHZ. I suspect this might have something to do with the metal interacting with the magnet on the driver, but I might be way off here, its just a hunch. I could feel the driver magnet pull on the metal grill when placing the drivers in the baffle.

I thought the response of the metal baffle looked interesting so I set it up on both channels and took a listen. I only have one pair of Vido’s at the moment so I couldn’t do a volume matched comparison between the metal baffle and stock configuration. I think the metal baffle mod made the sound darker overall. It sounded very smooth, and I could hear detail in the furthest reaches of the treble, but I’m not sure how I feel about the modification one way or the other. Without having a stock Vido to compare to it is hard to really say anything definitively. I think the results of the experiment were very interesting though, and when my other pairs of Vido’s come in I plan on experimenting some more. Here are some FR graphs comparing the two new baffle configurations to some of my other earbuds:


Spoiler: Metal Baffle vs Other Buds



 
 
 
 
 
 






Spoiler: SHE3800 Baffle vs Other Buds



 
 
 
 
 
 




Finally I just wanted to mention that when looking at my FR graphs comparing different earbuds, I think it is best that we view anything below 100Hz as a sort of “no guarantee zone” similar to what golden ears does with their measurements. This is because in real world listening the shell type, dampening design, and fit will all have an impact on how bass is perceived. As an example, it isn't exactly fair to compare a Shozy BK vs Vido in the bass area since they use different shells, different approaches to dampening the driver, and will have a different real world fit.

Happy Modding!


----------



## KookaBurrra

Very interesting, thanks man ! 

Where did you find it ?


----------



## ForceMajeure

slappypete said:


> Today I opened up my Vido looking to recable it for furthur comparisons vs CF2. The shells were a struggle to open, but once I got in there the drivers were very easy to liberate from the front baffle. One popped out all on its own when I finally got the shell open.
> 
> I viewed this as an oportunity to do a comparison between different front baffles/grills. In the past I have taken lots of measurements of various mods on full size headphones, and I find making changes to the baffle/grill in front of a driver often results in a change in treble response. Measurements I’ve taken of earbuds have shown that many (but not all) mx500 style earbuds share a similar treble FR curve from about 7kHz onward, and I suspected this might at least in part be due to the design of the baffle. The buds in my collection with the best treble extension are the MX980, Shozy BK, and Edifier H180. The baffles on all of these are different from the mx500 as well as each other. I had some metal baffles I purchased from Taobao, as well as a SHE3800 baffle (same as Edifier H180) on hand for experimenting with. Here are some photos of liberated Vido drivers, different baffles, and FR graphs comparing them:
> 
> ...



I am curious, what do you use to measure? 
How do you make sure you apply the same pressure against the coupler everytime you measure?


----------



## Merlin-PT

@slappypete 
Thanks for sharing, it's a very interesting reading.
Please also try to describe if the modifications sound good or bad.
I think music is much more complex than a frequency sweep, ie, with the graphs we can see how the freq. response changes, but we can only know if it sounds good or bad when you describe it.
when I look at freq. sweep graphs, sometimes I can see and try to guess if the sound is unbalanced, but when the graph looks good I can never say if it sounds good.


----------



## slappypete

KookaBurrra said:


> Very interesting, thanks man !
> 
> Where did you find it ?



The tuning foam and paper-like stuff was ordered from Taobao about a year ago. You might be able to find it on Aliexpress as well.



ForceMajeure said:


> I am curious, what do you use to measure?
> How do you make sure you apply the same pressure against the coupler everytime you measure?



I use a miniDSP UMIK-1 measurement microphone with a makeshift home-made coupler on it that the buds rest against. I apply a firm amount of pressure just with my hand. I realize that sounds ridiculous, and likely inconsistent, but in practice I find it quite repeatable. Variable pressure will effect the bass response, but once you get to a certain level of pressure the response is the same on my setup. This makes it pretty easy in practice to get a good measurement, but of course I take multiple measurements per channel and average them to get the final result. In the past I tried using a silicone ear attached to the microphone as a means of eliminating the hand applied pressure, but this actually made for very inconsistent results. As I have said many times, please take everything I post with a grain of salt, and don't view any of my findings as definitive proof of anything. I am confident enough in the repeat-ability of the measurements at this point, but a certain amount of healthy skepticism is always good.



Merlin-PT said:


> @slappypete
> Thanks for sharing, it's a very interesting reading.
> Please also try to describe if the modifications sound good or bad.
> I think music is much more complex than a frequency sweep, ie, with the graphs we can see how the freq. response changes, but we can only know if it sounds good or bad when you describe it.
> when I look at freq. sweep graphs, sometimes I can see and try to guess if the sound is unbalanced, but when the graph looks good I can never say if it sounds good.



When the other Vido's I order come in I will be sure to do some volume matched listening sessions and report my findings.


----------



## chaiyuta

@slappypete  : Could you provide taobao link where to buy all baffles?


----------



## slappypete

chaiyuta said:


> @slappypete  : Could you provide taobao link where to buy all baffles?



I tried to get into my Taobao account, but I can't figure out the email/password combo I used at the moment sorry. I have only ever done one order on Taobao but it was for a lot of parts at the time. I remember it took me quite a while to find everything I wanted, but I can't even remember what my approach was to searching for everything. I just tried searching for the metal baffles on both Taobao and Aliexpress with no luck. I did find some baffle listings, and on Aliexpress they seem to be called "covers". The metal ones are likely still available, but you might have better luck asking someone else to help you find them. Some others in here seem to be quite good at finding things on Taobao. 

I found a driver on Aliexpress that looks to have the same metal cover here. I also found MX760 & MX500 covers here. I haven't measured MX760 covers, but that could be interesting too. You really would be better off trying to find everything on Taobao. The stuff I ordered was dirt cheap compared to what I'm seeing on Aliexpress. The SHE3800 baffle I used in the measurements was taken from a disassembled SHE3800. 

If I figure out how to get into my Taobao account I will post the proper links.


----------



## fairx

Is it hard to make a diy FR measuring rig? And the cost.?


----------



## slappypete

fairx said:


> Is it hard to make a diy FR measuring rig? And the cost.?



To make an amateur rig like mine or similar it is not hard or all that expensive. You just need some sort of full range microphone, a quality sound card to connect the mic to your computer, and a coupler. A microphone made to be used for measurement is obviously ideal. The coupler can be a simple plastic tube of some sort. To get an idea of what I mean take a look at the Vibro Veritas here. Doing a google image search for "vibro veritas" will yeild more photos that might give you a better understanding as well. I don't use that mic, but it looks like decent option to me. I would want to know the internal and external diameter of the coupler though to see if it would work well with earbuds. I thought I read about someone on head-fi using this setup to measure earbuds some time ago. You could always make a new coupler for the veritas as well if it didn't work out of the box. 

There is also the Dayton IMM-6. This would be the cheapest option I think. I haven't used it either but know some use it for IEM's and get repeatable results with it. For earbud use I think I would build some sort of stand for it so the mic itself could stand up on a desk. Then I think I'd run an extension cable off the 3.5mm plug, and of course build some sort of coupler around the mic for earbuds. 

I use the miniDSP UMIK-. It is a usb mic, so no additional sound card is necessary like with the veritas. You will need to build a coupler though.


----------



## chaiyuta

Did anyone ever mod Meizu EP-21HD? I would like to know whether this earbud has possibility to open its front cover (baffle) or not.


----------



## golov17

chaiyuta said:


> Did anyone ever mod Meizu EP-21HD? I would like to know whether this earbud has possibility to open its front cover (baffle) or not.


Open gently on side, wires from the coil are at the bottom


----------



## DBaldock9

Looking for recommendations -

For those of you who build your own cables, where have you found the best, tightest, most secure fitting 2.5mm TRRS Female Jack, to use in making Balanced Extension or Adapter Cables?

I've purchased some of these (available from many dealers) -

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10-...-Audio-Soldering-DIY-Adapter/32511982309.html

- but the sound drops out with nearly any lateral movement, when installed on a cable for portable use.

So, I'm trying to find a higher quality, more secure jack, to use on my cables.

Thanks for any links!


----------



## silverfishla

DBaldock9 said:


> Looking for recommendations -
> 
> For those of you who build your own cables, where have you found the best, tightest, most secure fitting 2.5mm TRRS Female Jack, to use in making Balanced Extension or Adapter Cables?
> 
> ...


I've used that one and it does indeed fall short of being usable.  Waste of money.  I ordered a cable from Veclan (monks) and he was using a different 2.5mm TRRS that looked like this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRR...lgo_pvid=5c1e7c54-8e4a-4987-a74a-8cd6e3eb738a  It's a tight fit without drop outs.  At least it looks exactly like this one, but this one is expensive, so maybe you can find it somewhere else for less.


----------



## DBaldock9

silverfishla said:


> I've used that one and it does indeed fall short of being usable.  Waste of money.  I ordered a cable from Veclan (monks) and he was using a different 2.5mm TRRS that looked like this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TRRS-2-5mm-Female-DIY-Repair-Plug-Port-Audio-Cable-Connector-Adapter-LN005532/32809214230.html  It's a tight fit without drop outs.  At least it looks exactly like this one, but this one is expensive, so maybe you can find it somewhere else for less.



Thanks for the link.

I've got a Impact Audio Cables custom 3.5mm TRS Male to 2.5mm TRRS Female Adapter, and Lindsay uses this Eidolic Jack - https://doublehelixcables.com/product/eidolic-2-5mm-4-pole-female-jack-for-astell-kern/
It is a good, secure connector - but it doesn't have a back-shell, so I'd have to improvise with heatshrink over the contacts - which is what Lindsay does.


----------



## golov17 (Jun 28, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> Looking for recommendations -
> 
> For those of you who build your own cables, where have you found the best, tightest, most secure fitting 2.5mm TRRS Female Jack, to use in making Balanced Extension or Adapter Cables?
> 
> ...



http://www.eachdiy.com/goods-4664.html
http://www.eachdiy.com/goods-4658.html


----------



## DBaldock9

golov17 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/161697525821
> http://www.eachdiy.com/goods-4664.html
> http://www.eachdiy.com/goods-4658.html



Thanks for the link, but I'm trying to find a 2.5mm 4-pole jack.


----------



## golov17

DBaldock9 said:


> Thanks for the link, but I'm trying to find a 2.5mm 4-pole jack.


Corrected, but.. male or female?


----------



## DBaldock9

golov17 said:


> http://www.eachdiy.com/goods-4664.html
> http://www.eachdiy.com/goods-4658.html



Thanks.

I've seen those jacks on a couple of different websites.
And, I'm curious how you'e supposed to solder the 4th wire, since there are only 3 lugs at the back of the jack.  
Does the 4th wire solder directly to the gold housing?  
And, if so, will the back shell still fit and screw on correctly?


----------



## golov17

DBaldock9 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I've seen those jacks on a couple of different websites.
> And, I'm curious how you'e supposed to solder the 4th wire, since there are only 3 lugs at the back of the jack.
> ...


I think it will be..


----------



## DBaldock9

golov17 said:


> I think it will be..



I think I prefer a jack with 4 solder lugs.


----------



## fairx

Anybody mod their vido yet? Apart from recable I  mean.  What I really like about vido is its focus and bass. Is there  hope for more separation and depth?


----------



## slappypete

fairx said:


> Anybody mod their vido yet? Apart from recable I  mean.  What I really like about vido is its focus and bass. Is there  hope for more separation and depth?



I am waiting on more Vido's to come in the mail, and in the meantime I am preoccupied with a diy build, but I will definitely be making a Vido mod post in the future.


----------



## rggz

fairx said:


> Anybody mod their vido yet? Apart from recable I  mean.  What I really like about vido is its focus and bass. Is there  hope for more separation and depth?



@oskan has posted his mod recently here.

I've made this mod (but using cotton instead blu tac) and I really liked the results (of course it will change depending on the driver which you're using) but usually, you can get a wider sound compared to the stock. Also, I really like adding 75 Ohms adapter w/ sensitive earbuds because it gives me a better control of volume when I'm using them with an amp, then it's easier to find my sweet spot.


----------



## Makahl

Hey. I'm building some earbuds today and I've noted all my MX500's shells are blocked at this air channel which I thought it should be an acoustic design when Sennheiser designed it:






Has someone tried opening this air channel? Or is there some earbud which this port isn't blocked? I'm really curious to see if it can improve/change the sound like a speaker.


----------



## golov17

Makahl said:


> Hey. I'm building some earbuds today and I've noted all my MX500's shells are blocked at this air channel which I thought it should be an acoustic design when Sennheiser designed it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


some russian guys made it for more bass


----------



## DBaldock9

Makahl said:


> Hey. I'm building some earbuds today and I've noted all my MX500's shells are blocked at this air channel which I thought it should be an acoustic design when Sennheiser designed it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's very curious, since I really expected that to be a port into the housing back chamber.
If the MX500 shells that I've ordered, don't have that channel open, I will open it myself - and I'll probably try closing the ports that are at the perimeter, near the back of the driver.


----------



## headjelly

Can you guys recommend a small wire splitter on Ali? Just in case, I don't like the tibetian thing at all, I thing it's really ugly.


----------



## golov17 (Jul 2, 2017)

headjelly said:


> Can you guys recommend a small wire splitter on Ali? Just in case, I don't like the tibetian thing at all, I thing it's really ugly.


5pcs 4MM Y Splitter Adapter Set Kit For DIY HiFi Earphone Headphone
http://s.aliexpress.com/zI7jUzMV
(from AliExpress Android)
Free shipping one set 2.3mm Small Size black Y Splitter Adapter Set Kit For DIY HiFi Earphone Headphone
http://s.aliexpress.com/BRrI3MfY
(from AliExpress Android)
Full Metal Speaker Headphone Cable Audio Y Splitter Adapter For DIY Custom Cable LN005383
http://s.aliexpress.com/V7f2ayEV 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## Makahl

DBaldock9 said:


> That's very curious, since I really expected that to be a port into the housing back chamber.
> If the MX500 shells that I've ordered, don't have that channel open, I will open it myself - and I'll probably try closing the ports that are at the perimeter, near the back of the driver.



Looking forward to your feedback!


----------



## chaiyuta

Have anyone tried to re-cable earbuds with DIY DHC or TOXIC cable?
https://doublehelixcables.com/wire-and-diy-supplies/
https://www.toxic-cables.co.uk/product-category/diy-parts-and-wires/?orderby=date

I would like to know what's maximum size (lowest AWG no.) of cable that still fit to typical earbuds shell on each type e.g. MX500 shell, Yuin shell, etc.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 6, 2017)

Makahl said:


> Hey. I'm building some earbuds today and I've noted all my MX500's shells are blocked at this air channel which I thought it should be an acoustic design when Sennheiser designed it:



I have an original Sennheiser MX500 from back in the day and wanted to post a photo.
They don't have those holes.
Sorry for bad photo light, color is not natural.


Spoiler: photo


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 6, 2017)

knudsen said:


> Sounds great, though unfortunately I cannot see it
> 
> I managed to unscrew my other pair, only to arrive at some black stuff that seems like its not meant ever to be removed. Its also clear there is no screw mecanism at all, the shell is just fitting firmly on this black stuff, and maybe glued on to it





knudsen said:


> The challenge for me is to identify the 2 grounds out of the 4, I don't see those colors as cqtek does.



If you want to cut the cable to replace the jack and the cable has no colors, you could cut 1 conductor at a time and see with a multimeter were it connects to the old jack.
Take notes and mark all the wires, so you'll know were to solder in the new jack.

Continuity test:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_test
http://en-us.fluke.com/training/tra...for-continuity-with-a-digital-multimeter.html


----------



## knudsen (Jul 6, 2017)

Merlin-PT said:


> If you want to cut the cable to replace the jack and the cable has no colors, you could cut 1 conductor at a time and see with a multimeter were it connects to the old jack.
> Take notes and mark all the wires, so you'll know were to solder in the new jack.
> 
> Continuity test:
> ...


Thanks Merlin-PT, would you agree it would be the lower right setting for this? It beeps when I shortwire. Sorry for noob question


Spoiler


----------



## Merlin-PT

Yes that's the setting, the beep means there is a electrical connection.
I always use it to find what connects to what.


----------



## Makahl

Merlin-PT said:


> I have an original Sennheiser MX500 from back in the day and wanted to post a photo.
> They don't have those holes.
> Sorry for bad photo light, color is not natural.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your post! So I guess it's just an aesthetic thing.

Although, it looks moddable and you can get more bass or a different tune opening it. But after seeing this picture you really need to put some effort to make it correctly:



Spoiler











If we try opening it just using a mini drill doing a straight line probably will not finish well haha.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 7, 2017)

I bought a manual drill for those occasions, but I still didn't use it:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...ck-10pcs-0-4MM-2MM-HSS-Twist/32719805011.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fre...t-tungsten-steel-carbide-for/32312251566.html
There are many types of manual drills and drill bits.

I also think it will change sound, but can't say if it will be better.
If you decide to try it, it's always better to practice making holes in a dead earbud.


----------



## slappypete (Jul 7, 2017)

Makahl said:


> Thank you for your post! So I guess it's just an aesthetic thing.
> 
> Although, it looks moddable and you can get more bass or a different tune opening it. But after seeing this picture you really need to put some effort to make it correctly:
> 
> ...



I have tried drilling out the hole before and it didn't turn out well. I used a 1/16" bit and by the time I got through the plastic wall I also started coming out the top of the shell. Not saying it is impossible, but that was my experience trying it one day. I wouldn't assume that this mod would enhance bass as a rule. It might on some earbuds, but it will depend on the driver and existing tuning used. If I had to guess I'd say it is more likely that it raises the response in the entire mid range and bleeds into the bass, but mostly more bloated mids. I say this because this is what will happen if you remove all the dampening material from an earbud, leading to more airflow out of the shell through the existing holes. You also get the same effect if you open an RX1 and remove one or more of the pieces of mesh tape covering the shell vents. Here are some FR graphs showing the differences between a stock RX1 and an RX1 with one port opened up:



Spoiler: Measurements








Edit: just wanted to add that from my experiences measuring earbud tuning mods, I've found that too little dampening will result in raising the mid range, but having a steeper bass roll off. Too much dampening will lower the mid range and also have a steep bass roll off. To get the best bass extension you need to find the right balance, and that is entirely dependent on the driver, so some tunings work well for some drivers and not so well with others.


----------



## Makahl

slappypete said:


> I have tried drilling out the hole before and it didn't turn out well. I used a 1/16" bit and by the time I got through the plastic wall I also started coming out the top of the shell. Not saying it is impossible, but that was my experience trying it one day. I wouldn't assume that this mod would enhance bass as a rule. It might on some earbuds, but it will depend on the driver and existing tuning used. If I had to guess I'd say it is more likely that it raises the response in the entire mid range and bleeds into the bass, but mostly more bloated mids. I say this because this is what will happen if you remove all the dampening material from an earbud, leading to more airflow out of the shell through the existing holes. You also get the same effect if you open an RX1 and remove one or more of the pieces of mesh tape covering the shell vents. Here are some FR graphs showing the differences between a stock RX1 and an RX1 with one port opened up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh cool! I forgot to say it, I didn't mean it instantly will instantly improve anything since there are many variables like you said. But I really appreciate your finds! Certainly, it's helping a lot! 

Btw, I've tried this mod with an RX1 and I just think they're a solid 6/10 earbud independent of the mod or opening the ports, although, I'd rate them as 7/10 using them at low volumes. There's another option which is adding a rubber ring to improve the seal and then improving the bass (depending on the ear shape), but I think it won't save its artificial timbre IMO. Also, I thought RX1 drivers would fit in a Yuin shell but the driver is ~1mm smaller so my "transplant" didn't turn out well. Do you find some good result with your RX1?


----------



## slappypete

Makahl said:


> Oh cool! I forgot to say it, I didn't mean it instantly will instantly improve anything since there are many variables like you said. But I really appreciate your finds! Certainly, it's helping a lot!
> 
> Btw, I've tried this mod with an RX1 and I just think they're a solid 6/10 earbud independent of the mod or opening the ports, although, I'd rate them as 7/10 using them at low volumes. There's another option which is adding a rubber ring to improve the seal and then improving the bass (depending on the ear shape), but I think it won't save its artificial timbre IMO. Also, I thought RX1 drivers would fit in a Yuin shell but the driver is ~1mm smaller so my "transplant" didn't turn out well. Do you find some good result with your RX1?



I haven't tried anything else with the RX1 and didn't like the result of opening up one of the ports. Another head-fier pm'd me about the RX1 mod so I tried it and measured the result, but didn't get around to trying anything else on it. My RX1 is now scrapped. I sanded down the sides of the driver covers when testing them in a DIY piano forte I'm working on 

Thanks for mentioning that the RX1 drivers are 1mm smaller than the yuin size. I love knowing about stuff like that. I was thinking they might be interchangeable as well.


----------



## Makahl (Jul 11, 2017)

slappypete said:


> I haven't tried anything else with the RX1 and didn't like the result of opening up one of the ports. Another head-fier pm'd me about the RX1 mod so I tried it and measured the result, but didn't get around to trying anything else on it. My RX1 is now scrapped. I sanded down the sides of the driver covers when testing them in a DIY piano forte I'm working on
> 
> Thanks for mentioning that the RX1 drivers are 1mm smaller than the yuin size. I love knowing about stuff like that. I was thinking they might be interchangeable as well.



Is that Piano Forte an IEM, correct? It's must be a cool project! I have made something similar with the Mrice E100 housing, once it has a similar horn shape it was cool to see the influence on the sound depending on the driver, I got amazing results at treble extension (using 300Ohms and H180 drivers) - like cymbals most realistic. However, the fit becomes more tricky than the MX500 shell to get the full potential. I'd imagine this Piano Forte has a similar idea and probably an amazing sound.

Out of curiosity, I've heard from Henry (Cyperus) using metal housing isn't a good idea sound-wise, I'd guess due to the sound would reflect much more inside than plastic or wood causing a trade-off, which makes sense since it's really rare see a speaker or instrument using another thing besides wood and non-metal materials. But maybe for earbuds or IEMs the sound can get a pleasant timbre for some with the right tuning, like MrZ/Toneking lineup.

My next projects I really want to try some wood shells and figure out if there's a big difference in the timbre. The hard call now is to find out a person with some CNC machine or a skilled luthier, lol.


----------



## slappypete

Makahl said:


> Is that Piano Forte an IEM, correct? It's must be a cool project! I have made something similar with the Mrice E100 housing, once it has a similar horn shape it was cool to see the influence on the sound depending on the driver, I got amazing results at treble extension (using 300Ohms and H180 drivers) - like cymbals most realistic. However, the fit becomes more tricky than the MX500 shell to get the full potential. I'd imagine this Piano Forte has a similar idea and probably an amazing sound.
> 
> Out of curiosity, I've heard from Henry (Cyperus) using metal housing isn't a good idea sound-wise, I'd guess due to the sound would reflect much more inside than plastic or wood causing a trade-off, which makes sense since it's really rare see a speaker or instrument using another thing besides wood and non-metal materials. But maybe for earbuds or IEMs the sound can get a pleasant timbre for some with the right tuning, like MrZ/Toneking lineup.
> 
> My next projects I really want to try some wood shells and figure out if there's a big difference in the timbre. The hard call now is to find out a person with some CNC machine or a skilled luthier, lol.



I think most people consider the Piano Forte to be an IEM, but it doesn't use silicone tips or have a seal at all, so it is kind of a hybrid between an earbud and IEM. It's presentation of the sound and also comfort are much more in line with an earbud than any IEM I've had. I haven't heard an original PF yet, but even this DIY has shown how impressive the soundstage and out of head feeling of these is, so much so that I bought a pair of the Lab II.

It seems to me that the PF housings cause any driver to have a rolled off treble. Aside from soundstage, I would say that is their defining characteristic more than any "coloration" like some people say, just my opinion from tinkering with different drivers and tunings so far. I don't think it will really be possible to get a flat and well extended response from these shells, but that isn't to say they will be missing anything. I think a more mid-centric response is inherent in the design of the shell. Interestingly, I find this much more pleasurable in the DIY PF than I would in a really mid-centric earbud. I think since the PF tips funnel sound so well into your ears, It allows for excellent detail retrieval, which makes the treble roll off just feel laid back more than severely lacking to me.

As far as my opinion on housing material goes, I guess I just don't think there should be any rules like metal is worse than plastic, plastic is worse than wood, etc. I think it is likely different materials cause different responses given the same dimensions and design of housings were created, but I think it would be possible to have an excellent design made from anything really if you understand the properties of the material. Speaker cabinets would be a good example of this. Sure most cabinets are made of wood, but not all wood is created equal. There are solid wood cabinets, mdf, birch ply, etc, and of course the thickness used and bracing design matters as well. There are all kinds of proven designs depending on what you choose. It is impossible to eliminate reflections and coloration completely, but a good understanding of your material and design will allow you to shift coloration to different frequencies. Most speaker cabinet designers decide to either shift to high frequencies with a super stiff cabinet, or try and get them into the lower frequencies and reduce their SPL with a thin, more flexible design. The goal is usually to get them out of the midrange where the human ear picks up the most detail.

Its hard to say for sure, but I suspect this is not nearly as big a deal with earbuds as it is with speaker cabinets. Speakers move way more air, and have much more mechanical movement, and I would think the transfer of energy from driver to cabinet would be a much greater percentage in a speaker than earbud. Maybe I'm wrong though, when you consider how close the earbuds are to your ears it might be just as relevant.

I've already become a big fan of the metal IEM tip design of these PF's. I have been thinking about making some computer models of something similar to have 3D printed for more DIY fun. I think something like a Dunu Titan 1 design using metal tips, and large enough to use 15.4mm earbud drivers could be a cool project. It would take a lot of time, trial and error though.


----------



## headjelly

Hey, do you remember the Edimun V2 pictorial recipe? I mean, this one. Did he actually drill a hole in the driver in step 4? Has anobody tried doing that?


----------



## knudsen

headjelly said:


> Hey, do you remember the Edimun V2 pictorial recipe? I mean, this one. Did he actually drill a hole in the driver in step 4? Has anobody tried doing that?


A comment in the other thread suggested he probably only drills in the glue in the middle. I'd say he actually did drill Looks to be maybe 1.5 * the size of the holes at the edge?



Merlin-PT said:


> @knudsen
> Some drivers (but not all) have a hollow rivet in the center, usually they cover it with glue to control bass, maybe in that driver he is only drilling the glue and will find a hole behind it.
> 
> Here you can see a case where the hollow rivet connects to the center diaphragm dome in the other side:
> https://electroviees.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/how-earphone-works/


----------



## headjelly

knudsen said:


> A comment in the other thread suggested he probably only drills in the glue in the middle. I'd say he actually did drill Looks to be maybe 1.5 * the size of the holes at the edge?



Ah, ok, got it. I confirm that there is a hollow rivet in the center in the H180 and it is indeed filled with glue.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 12, 2017)

I'm also interested in H180 mod, if you decide to do it, let us know how the sound changes with each step, at least if it sounds better/worst to you.
My H180 arrived today, out of the box it's not musically satisfying to me, they need to burn-in for a few days.

I re-cable my Vido and I'm giving them a second chance.
The diaphragm of the right driver was hanging so had to glue it, I used the tiniest bit of nail polish/varnish, making sure it didn't run to the diaphragm.
They still sound good.


----------



## knudsen

headjelly said:


> Ah, ok, got it. I confirm that there is a hollow rivet in the center in the H180 and it is indeed filled with glue.


Let us know how the mod goes if you do it  I guess I might as well just try it, I like H180 but its not my favourite so no big risk. Would you know the sound difference between v2 and v3? i think I remember v2 being more V-shaped, but not too sure


----------



## headjelly (Jul 12, 2017)

knudsen said:


> Let us know how the mod goes if you do it  I guess I might as well just try it, I like H180 but its not my favourite so no big risk. Would you know the sound difference between v2 and v3? i think I remember v2 being more V-shaped, but not too sure



I have not heard the V2 and I traded my V3 for the ZEN (well, I gave a friend a V3 and a Blox B160 to get the Zen). I liked the sound of V3, but absolutely hated the stiff red cable


----------



## knudsen

Merlin-PT said:


> I'm also interested in H180 mod, if you decide to do it, let us know how the sound changes with each step, at least if it sounds better/worst to you.
> My H180 arrived today, out of the box it's not musically satisfying to me, they need to burn-in for a few days.
> 
> I re-cable my Vido and I'm giving them a second chance.
> ...


Which cable did you use?


----------



## weedophile

Hey guys, my solder from AE died on me. Any recommendation for a good soldering station?


----------



## Makahl

Hey diyers. What is/are your best creation/mod so far? I've read all this thread now and apparently, the most common mods are re-cables and housing tuning. Has someone tried something different than those things?


----------



## golov17

Makahl said:


> Hey diyers. What is/are your best creation/mod so far? I've read all this thread now and apparently, the most common mods are re-cables and housing tuning. Has someone tried something different than those things?


Other front cover too.. not only housing


----------



## Makahl

golov17 said:


> Other front cover too.. not only housing



Is that a **** PT15 to a Yuin-ish earbud? Really cool! 

I've tried a similar thing with a Monk+ but there's an amount of glue around the driver which makes difficult to disassemble without separating the diaphragm and the plate (at least for me), so honestly, you're a really skilled.


----------



## golov17

Makahl said:


> Is that a **** PT15 to a Yuin-ish earbud? Really cool!
> 
> I've tried a similar thing with a Monk+ but there's an amount of glue around the driver which makes difficult to disassemble without separating the diaphragm and the plate (at least for me), so honestly, you're a really skilled.


 Not ****.. AKG


----------



## Merlin-PT

I used the cable from a broken TY HI-Z HP-150 to re-cable the Vido.


Spoiler: photo (Vido + TY 150 cable)









Some moths ago I got a Seaf 150 and a TY 150, looks like they have the same drivers, but _my_ TY 150 sounded very bad and the Seaf 150 sounded very good.
I opened them and saw that the TY driver was full of glue, also on the other side of the driver the glue had runed over the top of the diaphragm, that explained why they sounded so bad.
So I used that cable in the Vido.


Spoiler: photo (TY 150 - Seaf 150)









I also bought another cable from AliEx, it's cheap and it looks good to me, they say each conductor is 32*0.05 Oxygen Free Copper.
It can't be seen well in the photos, but each conductor L,R,G,G is inside a black insulator like the seaf/TY cable above and after that there is a transparent jackets all around.
I got the grey color and It looks like the Toneking Tomahawk cable.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-2...k-LC-OFC-DIY-Headphone-Audio/32764439785.html


----------



## knudsen (Jul 12, 2017)

weedophile said:


> Hey guys, my solder from AE died on me. Any recommendation for a good soldering station?


I bought one similar to this one. For the small things I do it's great, and for the price excellent  It takes 5 minutes to warm up though, but its a good time to reconsider what you are going to do. The tip is a bit large for soldering in the zishan, but as its replaceable I'm sure one can get other tips if its a problem.

Edit: I'm sure you can finder nicer ones though if you don't go for budget ones.


----------



## weedophile

knudsen said:


> I bought one similar to this one. For the small things I do it's great, and for the price excellent  It takes 5 minutes to warm up though, but its a good time to reconsider what you are going to do. The tip is a bit large for soldering in the zishan, but as its replaceable I'm sure one can get other tips if its a problem.
> 
> Edit: I'm sure you can finder nicer ones though if you don't go for budget ones.


Thx for the fast response! Unfortunately it doesnt ship to the place i'm in. But i shall probably look for something with this form factor. The previous one was just a standalone pen and it probably got cooked after i used it for like an hour straight lol. Now it cant even liquidify the solder on the driver T.T


----------



## knudsen (Jul 12, 2017)

weedophile said:


> Thx for the fast response! Unfortunately it doesnt ship to the place i'm in. But i shall probably look for something with this form factor. The previous one was just a standalone pen and it probably got cooked after i used it for like an hour straight lol. Now it cant even liquidify the solder on the driver T.T


I think they have that model all over the world, it was just an example. I bought in local store. Of that type Velleman has 1 model that goes to 450C and 1 to 480C, as I understood it the latter would be better if one wants to solder un-leaded but I was too petty


----------



## Merlin-PT

Every earbud driver I see has one connector marked with paint/ink.
The drivers have polarity, one contact is +/positive and the other is -/negative.
In all earbud drivers I've seen:
The (+) contact is marked with paint/ink and connect to the Red wire (R) or the Green wire (L).
The (-) contact is unpainted/unmarked and connect the ground wires.

Something interesting is my TY HI-Z 32, doesn't have the paint/marks on the same side of the driver.
Do you think they build the driver and only after that they somehow measure and mark the polarity?


Spoiler: photo (red paint shows the + contact)


----------



## weedophile

knudsen said:


> I think they have that model all over the world, it was just an example. I bought in local store. Of that type Velleman has 1 model that goes to 450C and 1 to 480C, as I understood it the latter would be better if one wants to solder un-leaded but I was too petty


I shall check out my local stores. Thx again!


----------



## DBaldock9 (Jul 13, 2017)

Merlin-PT said:


> Every earbud driver I see has one connector marked with paint/ink.
> The drivers have polarity, one contact is +/positive and the other is -/negative.
> In all earbud drivers I've seen:
> The (+) contact is marked with paint/ink and connect to the Red wire (R) or the Green wire (L).
> ...



Back when I was building speakers, and working with larger, bass & midrange drivers, I could touch the cone while checking the resistance, and feel which way it moves with the Ohmmeter's DC voltage being applied.
With small drivers, where you can't really feel them move, you may have to hook a microphone to an oscilloscope, and look to see whether you get a rising or falling pulse when the Ohmmeter's DC voltage is applied.


----------



## fairx (Jul 13, 2017)

Today I try again to remove my filter foam of my ty 320 back shell. Before this I'm a bit afraid ripping off the foam but the foam really sturdier that it looks and came out fine. Using table glue (for screen printing platen) and put it directly on the driver as picture above.

The results? Definitely a more control lower end instead if just boom it now holds impact instead of decay and better textured. An improvement in bass depth (not lower just better depth in space)

I don't think I'm  imagining things because I only compared with songs that I knew very very well.

Edit. Further listening and I miss the slight upper mids that I love from first mod. Back to original foam positions with come cotton.

Edit. For the fun of it  i tried with no foam at all. Lol it sound too dull and missing highs. 

Oh yeah I almost destroy the left driver. Glad it holds back in safely. Phew..!


----------



## knudsen

fairx said:


> Oh yeah I almost destroy the left driver. Glad it holds back in safely. Phew..!



The joy of modding; 2 steps forward and 2 steps back, all to enjoy the euphoria when it surprisingly still works


----------



## DBaldock9

Part of the order I placed, to assemble some earbuds, has arrived.
I've received the wire and 3.5mm TRS plugs - so I began with the blue cable.

 

There will also be a red cable assembled - probably start on it tonight.

The four pieces of wire were cut as 48" (~1.2m), and then braided together, so the total length is a bit less.

I can recommend this wire, as being soft, flexible, and able to take the heat of soldering (without melting away from the joint).
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/28A...rature-Tinned-copper-UL-VW-1/32429281418.html


----------



## Merlin-PT

Why tinned copper for audio and not bare copper?
Does it sound different from bare copper?
TIA


----------



## DBaldock9

Merlin-PT said:


> Why tinned copper for audio and not bare copper?
> Does it sound different from bare copper?
> TIA



I bought this wire because it's cheap, and I wanted to try the silicone insulation - for its flexibility and ability to resist soldering temperatures.
So far, it does well with both of those features.
If you can point out a soft, flexible, high temperature wire that's bare copper (and not too expensive), I'd be willing to try some of it, as well.

I haven't yet received the earbuds that the wire will be connected to, so I can't comment on any differences in sound.


----------



## Merlin-PT

Many years ago, I tried many wire brands to connect full size speakers to amps.
I also made and tried many interconnect cables.
I was interested how materials and design sounded.
Back then, I liked the sound of bare copper better than everything else.
I know a lot of people pay more for silver plated copper, I guess they like the sound better than pure copper, but I didn't like the sound of silver platted copper or others.
Since that time I prefer to use copper wires for audio, but taste and preference differs from person to person, so I was curious if your option was about sound.


----------



## slappypete

Some of my recent wire findings:

I recently purchased some 32 AWG USSR military copper wire from ebay for making some 8 strand braided cables. I haven't made a cable with it yet, but I think the 32 AWG will work really well for 8 wire cables, and it is very reasonably priced. This is very thin stuff, about 0.5mm outer diameter, close to the size used on the Shozy BK. It has Teflon insulation so it is very heat resistant and won't melt on you when soldering. The Teflon insulation will also make for a fairly durable braided cable imo. The 32 AWG I think will have a nice flexibility in an 8 wire cable, but I can't speak to any of the thicker gauges. The insulation type as well as core count/number of strands in the wire will determine the flexibility of the wire. I didn't count the number of strands in the 32 AWG but I would guess around 8-10. If the thicker gauges don't up the number of strands, they may be too stiff for some peoples preferences. It is hard to tell in the photos of the wire if it is clear/transparent insulation or if it's pink. In reality it is transparent, but the insulation has some opacity, and isn't perfectly clear so the wire does sort of look pink. When looking up close in the light you can see the copper wire through the insulation.

There is some wire on Aliexpress that I would really like to try as well. This stuff is much more expensive but has a very high core count, and is likely very flexible, while still using Teflon insulation. The seller has a lot of other options as well. Keep in mind when looking at some of the cheaper options that the core count is very low, so the wire will be stiffer.


----------



## noknok23

weedophile said:


> Thx for the fast response! Unfortunately it doesnt ship to the place i'm in. But i shall probably look for something with this form factor. The previous one was just a standalone pen and it probably got cooked after i used it for like an hour straight lol. Now it cant even liquidify the solder on the driver T.T



I got one of those, they are total crap and only work once. I filled a complain in AE for a full refund but lost the dispute. Will get a proper solder as well.


----------



## knudsen

Got my shrinkable tube today, those are going to be a lot of fun..

And just found these foams, have ordered though I'm afraid they are bad soundwise



Spoiler


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 16, 2017)

Merlin-PT said:


> I'm also interested in H180 mod, if you decide to do it, let us know how the sound changes with each step, at least if it sounds better/worst to you.
> My H180 arrived today, out of the box it's not musically satisfying to me, they need to burn-in for a few days..



After 3 days of burn-in, the H180 sound is much better and I like it.

They are difficult to open, I opened them and made the center hole in the driver, the sound changed.
I can't A/B compare it with another H180, but with the hole in the driver it has more bass, voices are a bit more recessed and treble rolls off sooner.
I can't say it's better now, neither worst, it's different. It's a trade-off, more bass, less treble, more recessed voices.

Then I made a hole in the housing, this is very easy to do using a manual drill, but it made the sound very bad, it's worst now.
I know there are more steps in the original mod, I see something else done to the inside of the housing, but I don't know what to do further.
I'm now thinking I'll revert my mods.

My conclusion here is that tuning sound is difficult, if you have better results with H180 mod please let us know.



Spoiler: photo - H180 open











Spoiler: photo - driver center hole











Spoiler: photo - housing hole


----------



## knudsen (Jul 16, 2017)

Merlin-PT said:


> After 3 days of burn-in, the H180 sound is much better and I like it.


I think

Image 6: He trims the inner perimeter of the horseshoe. The first block (out of the 3) seems not connected to anything - the 2 others are connected to the holes at the back.
Image 7: He cuts away the horseshoe at the bottom, so the cable can enter here. I would think he cuts away the whole empty space.
Image 8: He fills the top half with the blue stuff (don't remember the name). They have it everywhere here, its called elephants snot  This is the thing I am mostly in doubt about, how much to use? 

Edit: I don't think he cuts away that first block anyway, I think the new drilled hole goes into that.


Spoiler


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 16, 2017)

In picture 8 I see 2 things:
- The blue stuff inside the housing. I don't know if he makes another chamber with this (to connect to the outside hole) or he just makes the housing chamber smaller.
- The horseshoe turned from black to white, so I'm thinking he removed all the black horseshoe and replaced it with another material.


----------



## knudsen (Jul 16, 2017)

Merlin-PT said:


> In picture 8 I see 2 things:
> - The blue stuff inside the housing. I don't know if he makes another chamber with this (to connect to the outside hole) or he just makes the housing chamber smaller.
> - The horseshoe turned from black to white, so I'm thinking he removed all the black horseshoe and replaced it with another material.


There must be someone who has opened an original?

You might be right about the color, but I think its just the light reflecting. It seems to me he cuts away a bit of the inner horseshoe in 6, its not perfectly round. He is also using another knife than in 7. But maybe its just excess glue he is removing. I think the angle he holds the drill in 5 might be significant, it looks to go into the top room of the 3


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 16, 2017)

I also thought he had cut the center of the horseshoe in 6 and I also tried it before I made the hole.
It further changes the sound and again to me it doesn't sound better or worst just different. Can't say exactly what changed, can't compare with before.

In pic 8, there is no mid horseshoe missing, so I now think maybe he replaced the horseshoe with white stuff, but It could also be light reflection as you said.

It was the housing hole that didn't work for me, it destroyed the sound.
Maybe these holes work with the blue material or he puts some padding inside like the PK housings have.


----------



## knudsen

Merlin-PT said:


> I also thought he had cut the center of the horseshoe in 6 and I also tried it before I made the hole.
> It further changes the sound and again to me it doesn't sound better or worst just different. Can't say exactly what changed, can't compare with before.
> 
> In pic 8, there is no mid horseshoe missing, so I now think maybe he replaced the horseshoe with white stuff, but It could also be light reflection as you said.
> ...


He is playing with us  Looks to be a lot of trial/error if we can't find an image of the result..

I agree on 8, though I've thought one could'nt see the hole in the horseshoe because of the blur/bookeh. But there also seems to be no hole in the driver in 8. So he might just purposely not show the results


----------



## golov17 (Jul 16, 2017)

@irgunawan


----------



## KookaBurrra (Jul 17, 2017)

Vido and Monk Plus recabled... First try, more easy do to that I think !!


----------



## Makahl

ozkan said:


> Well I tried Blu-tac mod and it seems to work on Vido as well.
> 
> Needless to say it sounds better. What we have now is a more refined Vido.



Has someone else tried this mod with Vidos? 

I'd really love to see an FR graphic @slappypete if it's not asking much.


----------



## slappypete

Makahl said:


> Has someone else tried this mod with Vidos?
> 
> I'd really love to see an FR graphic @slappypete if it's not asking much.



I've been meaning to measure the Ozkan Mod for a while and have been procrastinating. This shoutout was the kick in the pants I needed haha 

So I measured the mod on just one channel of my Vido because the other channel is broken. I was impatient waiting for other Vido pairs to arrive in the mail so I used my main Vido drivers for a bunch of experimenting with the DIY Piano Forte I am working on. The drivers were in and out of various front covers and soldered to about a half dozen times at least. I eventually had a slip up and snapped a voice coil on one of the drivers. Anyway, point is I can't listen to this mod at the moment to give any subjective impressions for you. Here is the FR graph of the Ozkan mod:

 

I plugged the two large middle holes just like Ozkan's photo. It doesn't look to improve anything on the Vido to me, but the change is pretty minor. I doubt this makes the Vido any more "refined" sounding, that's just my opinion and as I said, I haven't listened to it. I hope not to offend Ozkan by saying that, just voicing my skepticism. If it sounds good to you and makes you happier with your earbud then great, that is all that really matters anyway right.


----------



## slappypete

Just ordered some more tuning cotton and foam for mods and DIY builds. Links to the stuff I ordered here and here. The foam looks nicer than the stuff I have currently. It comes with adhesive applied already. I believe I already have this same cotton type here, but I should mention that not all tuning cotton is the same. I have two types. One is thinner than the other. They do measure differently. The stuff I linked to above looks to be the thicker variety. This stuff looks more like my thin stuff, but I can't say for sure obviously. In the product description for that last link the seller mentions 6 different thicknesses. You might be able to buy all six if you message them.


----------



## Merlin-PT

Comparing the wide of the gap on top of the horseshoe, looks like 2 holes will not be covered in the first one you posted, but it's also useful.


----------



## DBaldock9

slappypete said:


> Just ordered some more tuning cotton and foam for mods and DIY builds. Links to the stuff I ordered here and here. The foam looks nicer than the stuff I have currently. It comes with adhesive applied already. I believe I already have this same cotton type here, but I should mention that not all tuning cotton is the same. I have two types. One is thinner than the other. They do measure differently. The stuff I linked to above looks to be the thicker variety. This stuff looks more like my thin stuff, but I can't say for sure obviously. In the product description for that last link the seller mentions 6 different thicknesses. You might be able to buy all six if you message them.



I've already received the "Aipinchun 100pcs Diy Earphone Unit Tuning Cotton Dust-Proof with Self-Adhesive Glue for MX500" from that vendor, but I'm still waiting on drivers & shells I ordered from a different vendor.
I've been in contact with the Yuming Store about something else (order was incomplete).  They replied quickly that they're going to ship to rest of the order to me.  Just asked about getting multiple thicknesses of the tuning cotton.


----------



## Makahl (Jul 18, 2017)

slappypete said:


> Just ordered some more tuning cotton and foam for mods and DIY builds. Links to the stuff I ordered here and here. The foam looks nicer than the stuff I have currently. It comes with adhesive applied already. I believe I already have this same cotton type here, but I should mention that not all tuning cotton is the same. I have two types. One is thinner than the other. They do measure differently. The stuff I linked to above looks to be the thicker variety. This stuff looks more like my thin stuff, but I can't say for sure obviously. In the product description for that last link the seller mentions 6 different thicknesses. You might be able to buy all six if you message them.



Not kinda related to earbuds, but it's cool to see the Sennheiser team improved their acoustic material through the years on HD600:  

I've bought some variation of the cotton which isn't fuller like the default from VE on Asura/Zen 2 or old Baldoor E100, probably your link it's more alike than mine so thank you again!


----------



## slappypete

Merlin-PT said:


> Comparing the wide of the gap on top of the horseshoe, looks like 2 holes will not be covered in the first one you posted, but it's also useful.



It does look that way doesn't it. That would be strange though. I have seen some foam that wouldn't cover all of the driver holes, but that foam was meant to be glued to the shell rather than the driver. This stuff with the adhesive applied I would think is meant to be applied to the rear of the driver. 



DBaldock9 said:


> I've already received the "Aipinchun 100pcs Diy Earphone Unit Tuning Cotton Dust-Proof with Self-Adhesive Glue for MX500" from that vendor, but I'm still waiting on drivers & shells I ordered from a different vendor.
> I've been in contact with the Yuming Store about something else (order was incomplete).  They replied quickly that they're going to ship to rest of the order to me.  Just asked about getting multiple thicknesses of the tuning cotton.



Have you used your Aipinchun foam yet? If so, will it cover all of the driver vent holes, or is it too short as Merlin-PT suggested it may be? Also, please let us know what the seller says about different cotton thicknesses when you hear back. I am curious but didn't send a message yet. Thanks!

@Makahl cool vid, thanks for sharing!


----------



## headjelly

Hey, is there a way to measure cables separately from measuring earbuds? I have several pairs of old Iriver buds and the cables are simply beautiful, they are thick and soft, so I am trying to use them with my other buds, but I swear that they make the sound much much worse. How can a cable even do that?


----------



## rggz

My progression on filters: Reusing filters coming from stock models > buying filters on Aliexpress > making a cotton arch > using coffee filters (Hario) and tea bags as filters w/ a glue stick to fit it on the plate. 

Actually, I don't listen to any night/day difference just using 1 layer but it's so funny trying new materials, also, it's easier adding new layers and I don't have to wait 2 months to the packages arrive in my mail. Win-win haha.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 20, 2017)

headjelly said:


> Hey, is there a way to measure cables separately from measuring earbuds? I have several pairs of old Iriver buds and the cables are simply beautiful, they are thick and soft, so I am trying to use them with my other buds, but I swear that they make the sound much much worse. How can a cable even do that?



I also look for physical differences when selecting a cable:
- The electrical conductor material makes a difference in sound. To me this is the most important factor.
   Copper, silver plated copper, tin plated copper, etc. have different sound.
   Just look and try to see if it has copper, silver or tin color. If plated try to scratch a wire and try to see whats behind.
  I like pure copper.
- More strands (many thinner wires), makes the wire more flexible.
- A thicker overall wire diameter has less resistance and transports more current.
- I prefer 2 independent ground wires all the way from each earphone to the jack.
  A cheaper option is 1 common ground wire from the Y splitter to the jack.
  I think maybe separated ground wires could improve channel separation and you can convert them to a balanced jack if you need.
  To understand how channel separation is important, try to use a filter in foobar and convert any stereo music to mono and see the difference.
- I also prefer that each of the 4 conductors (Left,Ground,Right,Ground) is individual insulated.
- Insulator is also important and I've read that teflon is good, but I buy what I can.
- My budget is limited so I don't buy very expensive cables, I prefer to use the extra money in better drivers or source.
- Good jacks (connectors) are important, but I don't have much experience here, because they are expensive, I try to select copper.
- Good electrical solder connection is important, the solder spot must be bright/shining after soldering. Sometimes the wires are varnished, best way to remove the varnish is to put a lot of solder in the iron tip and put the wire tip inside the solder for a few seconds. It will melt the varnish. After this don't use that solder for soldering, just trash it.

-> Make sure you respect each driver polarity, positive (+) and negative (-) driver connectors, when you solder the cable.
Phase test (listen to stereo image):


Spoiler: phase test








Maybe someone else can add something more.


----------



## slappypete

Merlin-PT said:


> I also look for physical differences when selecting a cable:
> - The electrical conductor material makes a difference in sound. To me this is the most important factor.
> Copper, silver plated copper, tin plated copper, etc. have different sound.
> 
> -> Make sure you respect each driver polarity, positive (+) and negative (-) driver connectors, when you solder the cable.



It's cool if you personally feel you can hear a difference between cable conductors, we are all entitled to our opinion, and you can't prove a negative, but It certainly isn't a fact that different cable conductors impact sound quality. I don't know of anyone who has been able to prove they do using measurements or blind testing. If you know of some new research that I don't please let me know, I would be very interested. 

Driver polarity certainly needs to be respected, but only in the sense that you need to be consistent when choosing where to solder your positive and negative. You could for example solder your cable's positive to the driver's negative, and the cable's negative to the driver's positive. As long as you did the same for both channels, your headphone would be working in phase.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 20, 2017)

I tried this with full size speakers wires, not with earbuds, to me silver plated sounded brighter and more metallic than copper.
All the different copper speaker cables I tried sounded the same to me (same diameter).
I agree we should take people experience for what it is, personal opinion. I didn't look for scientific prof 
To you they sound the same? So I guess you also prefer the cheaper copper like me?


----------



## slappypete

Merlin-PT said:


> I tried this with full size speakers wires, not with earbuds, to me silver plated sounded brighter and more metallic than copper.
> All the different copper speaker cables I tried sounded the same to me (same diameter).
> I agree we should take people experience for what it is, personal opinion. I didn't look for scientific prof
> To you they sound the same? So I guess you also prefer the cheaper copper like me?



I'm glad you took my comments well. After posting I was worried I may have come accross a little strong. This can be a really touchy issue for some people, and I tend to get a little defensive when people state things as fact that are really just a common opinion.

I haven't been able to hear a difference between conductors or different gauges. I have heard crosstalk issues on a cheap cable with a shared ground below the Y split and a mic. Playing left right channel tests on youtube, I was able to faintly hear sound coming from the wrong channel during the test. The exact cable I am referring to is here and the test track here. I can't hear this with cables that have grounds joined in the plug, I didn't try any other 3 conductor cables.  

When recabling I try to buy something for its physical attributes more than anything else. I don't like the feel of pvc insulation, I find it gummy feeling and I find it tangles too easily. So far I have found I like Teflon insulation best. It is smooth, slick, and hard/durable. I find it very tangle resistant. So yeah, basically I'm just looking for Teflon insulated wire that is flexible enough for the braiding I want to use. I sometimes buy SPC if it is the same price as raw copper, but I do so just to change up the look.


----------



## DBaldock9 (Jul 20, 2017)

slappypete said:


> Have you used your Aipinchun foam yet? If so, will it cover all of the driver vent holes, or is it too short as Merlin-PT suggested it may be? Also, please let us know what the seller says about different cotton thicknesses when you hear back. I am curious but didn't send a message yet. Thanks!



No, still awaiting the various drivers and shells that I ordered - before I begin trying to assemble earbuds.
*EDIT:*  It appears that the other two shipments of my order have arrived in the USA - coming through Chicago, on their way to Houston...  

There's a bit of a language issue, and I haven't received a clear answer about whether they will ship one lot of each "Tuning Cotton" thickness (Y1, Y2, Y3, Y4, Y5, & Y6), if six lots are ordered.


----------



## Merlin-PT

@slappypete 
I was also glad you shared an opposite experience, so others could try and find what works best for them.


----------



## fairx

I'm very happy with  this rekindled development. 

Hopeful you guys will report back different thickness of filter with graphs. That would be really useful. Thanks in advance guys. 

About different conductors or cable i can detect brightness in some recable case. Not really sure if the driver itself are different because i haven't recable back and don't have measurements before / after. I just detect differences between 2 set of same earbud, stock and recable / plug.


----------



## fairx

rggz said:


> My progression on filters: Reusing filters coming from stock models > buying filters on Aliexpress > making a cotton arch > using coffee filters (Hario) and tea bags as filters w/ a glue stick to fit it on the plate.
> 
> Actually, I don't listen to any night/day difference just using 1 layer but it's so funny trying new materials, also, it's easier adding new layers and I don't have to wait 2 months to the packages arrive in my mail. Win-win haha.


  this makes me want to try other typr of material laying around my house like i did with my superlux filter.  Hopefully i can try with my vido. 

BTW on my ty Hp320 i can detect differences with layers of different cotton. Still not day and night but enough to make me sleepless


----------



## DBaldock9

I went ahead and placed an order for the Yuming Store "Tuning Cotton" (Y1, Y2, Y3, Y4, Y5, & Y6), and I'll know in a couple of weeks, whether Anna understood my request for the multiple thicknesses...


----------



## knudsen

I have searched, but can't find an answer; what glue or type of glue can be recommended for attaching driver to shell? I have some rattle so must be strong, but not too strong  Ideally would need heating for removal


----------



## DBaldock9

knudsen said:


> I have searched, but can't find an answer; what glue or type of glue can be recommended for attaching driver to shell? I have some rattle so must be strong, but not too strong  Ideally would need heating for removal



Which products have you tried, so far?
There are numerous websites that discuss which adhesives to use for gluing the different types of plastic together, but those recommendations are for permanent bonding.
I was planning to get some "Rubber Cement", and some "Silicone Caulk / Glue", for non-permanent sealing of the earbuds I'll be assembling.


----------



## knudsen

DBaldock9 said:


> Which products have you tried, so far?
> There are numerous websites that discuss which adhesives to use for gluing the different types of plastic together, but those recommendations are for permanent bonding.
> I was planning to get some "Rubber Cement", and some "Silicone Caulk / Glue", for non-permanent sealing of the earbuds I'll be assembling.


I haven't tried anything yet, I only have some permanent ones. I've only read about these of which "moisture curing urethane" seems best to me. Those you've got eyes on seem interesting. Dealing with hot glue sounds horrible when dealing with stuff as small as this


----------



## DBaldock9

knudsen said:


> I haven't tried anything yet, I only have some permanent ones. I've only read about these of which "moisture curing urethane" seems best to me. Those you've got eyes on seem interesting. Dealing with hot glue sounds horrible when dealing with stuff as small as this



Something as simple as _Elmer's Glue_ might work, to provide a filler in the groove between the front cap and the shell.
It won't be a permanent bond, but will solidify, and provide a friction seal between the two pieces.


----------



## slappypete

knudsen said:


> I have searched, but can't find an answer; what glue or type of glue can be recommended for attaching driver to shell? I have some rattle so must be strong, but not too strong  Ideally would need heating for removal



I'm interested in trying Aleen's Acid-Free Tacky Glue. I think it might work really well. It is thicker than normal pva white glue, so It will shrink less when drying, be less runny and I think easier to work with. It dries clear and flexible. The bond is described as permanent, but I think if you used just a small amount the result would be similar to a factory made earbud. I realize you are talking about glueing drivers into the shell front cover and not gluing shells closed, but If used to close two halves of an earbud shell, I think you would be able to open it again if need be. My understanding is that these tacky glues will bond to plastics, but the bond won't be very strong compared to other materials. I think this would help in creating a more semi-permanent bond as well. I haven't used this glue before so take all of that with a large grain of salt. I plan on buying a bottle to try out soon. Aside from that I am confident that Elmers Craft Bond spray craft glue will work, but you would need to spray the glue on a piece of cardboard to make a glue puddle, and then quickly apply the glue by hand with a toothpick or something similar. This stuff dries clear, flexible, and seems very similar to the glue used on stock earbuds to me. The bond won't be permanent, you could pry shells open again if need be.


----------



## rggz

knudsen said:


> I haven't tried anything yet, I only have some permanent ones. I've only read about these of which "moisture curing urethane" seems best to me. Those you've got eyes on seem interesting.* Dealing with hot glue sounds horrible when dealing with stuff as small as this*



Indeed. When I opened my MrZ Tomahawk there were some hot glue spots covering the driver's vents causing some channel imbalance, not cool.


----------



## fairx

rggz said:


> Indeed. When I opened my MrZ Tomahawk there were some hot glue spots covering the driver's vents causing some channel imbalance, not cool.


I'm interested in racabling my tomahawk. How do you open yours? Is it hard?


----------



## knudsen (Jul 22, 2017)

Great suggestions. I suggest we all try what we have, or can easily get  I've just tried with a silicone from tube I've used to put stuff up on the walls of my bathroom. Will see tomorrow how it works, but it was quite easy to work with and as it is transparent it should look fine. I used pure alcohol to clean the edge of the bud prior.

This hi-z 32 have had a hard life, only few hours ago I drilled 2 extra holes in each bud (seen below the 3 others). As I expected it lowered the response from ca. 1500-2500, more or less the opposite of what I believe slappypete showed that the ozkan mod did, I remember that as more response at 2k. As it still had more energy up top it sounded a bit tinny and very V. But at least I got rid of some of the 2k bump I have never liked. Maybe combined with alterations of the horseshoe it could work.



Spoiler


----------



## rggz

fairx said:


> I'm interested in racabling my tomahawk. How do you open yours? Is it hard?



I've swapped the original drivers (right side broken) to Vidos drivers and changed the cables. There's a pic here. 

It's not the most friendly earbud to open it. But, I just did my casual routine to open an earbud: The first step was warming the edges with a hair dryer for some minutes then applying isopropyl alcohol with a q-tip to help melt the glue, after that, using a utility knife around the driver to finish the job. Perhaps another user can give you more tips to avoid damaging the driver, I think @slappypete opened his Cypherus Campred 2 which apparently looks harder to open!


----------



## DBaldock9

slappypete said:


> I'm interested in trying Aleen's Acid-Free Tacky Glue. I think it might work really well. It is thicker than normal pva white glue, so It will shrink less when drying, be less runny and I think easier to work with. It dries clear and flexible. The bond is described as permanent, but I think if you used just a small amount the result would be similar to a factory made earbud. I realize you are talking about glueing drivers into the shell front cover and not gluing shells closed, but If used to close two halves of an earbud shell, I think you would be able to open it again if need be. My understanding is that these tacky glues will bond to plastics, but the bond won't be very strong compared to other materials. I think this would help in creating a more semi-permanent bond as well. I haven't used this glue before so take all of that with a large grain of salt. I plan on buying a bottle to try out soon. Aside from that I am confident that Elmers Craft Bond spray craft glue will work, but you would need to spray the glue on a piece of cardboard to make a glue puddle, and then quickly apply the glue by hand with a toothpick or something similar. This stuff dries clear, flexible, and seems very similar to the glue used on stock earbuds to me. The bond won't be permanent, you could pry shells open again if need be.



There's quite a selection of craft glues at Michaels Stores, including Glitter Glue Pens, for your _Fancy_ earbuds...


----------



## slappypete (Jul 22, 2017)

@rggz Your method may be better than mine. I thought of using a hair dryer to warm the glue, but thought the amount of heat required may also damage the driver so I didn't do it. I opened the CF2 with force alone. I first wrapped the stem of the shell in a few wraps of masking tape. Then I placed my roll of masking tape on my work table and clamped the earbud shell onto the roll of tape. Basically the stem of the earbud was clamped to the tape roll, and the driver section of the shell was overhanging the edge of the tape roll and free floating in the air. I then used an old visa gift card as a pry tool. I placed the edge of the card on the lip of the shell front cover, and pushed down. I was trying to be careful to not break the thing open all at once in an aggressive manor. I would apply pressure in one spot, then move to another, working my way around the lip. It didn't seem like i was accomplishing much at first, most attempts at applying pressure wouldn't yeild visible progress, but I do think working my way around slowly helped quite a bit. I think its best to pay close attention to spot the moment you notice any give and then be even more careful. You don't want to apply too much pressure once it starts opening, or you will risk the cable pulling on the driver while you push on the front cover, and this can lead to separating the driver from front cover. I admit this is a crude way of opening these things and there may well be a better way. It worked for me but I make no guarantees it will for anyone else. I have used this technique on a a few pairs of of earbuds and haven't broke any so far. I did break a driver in the past when forcing shells open with only my bare hands. Here is a mock up photo I just took to better illustrate how the earbud was clamped down:


Spoiler: clamped earbud


----------



## knudsen

rggz said:


> I've swapped the original drivers (right side broken) to Vidos drivers and changed the cables. There's a pic here.
> 
> It's not the most friendly earbud to open it. But, I just did my casual routine to open an earbud: The first step was warming the edges with a hair dryer for some minutes then applying isopropyl alcohol with a q-tip to help melt the glue, after that, using a utility knife around the driver to finish the job. Perhaps another user can give you more tips to avoid damaging the driver, I think @slappypete opened his Cypherus Campred 2 which apparently looks harder to open!


I've begun to warm them with a hairdryer, rotate the front clockwise/counterclockwise a couple of times, and after that pry it open with a nail. Don't you risk getting the alcohol where it does'nt belong?


----------



## fairx (Jul 22, 2017)

I'm afraid using hair dryer as well. But since tomahawk is metal back I think I'm just gonna force it open bit by bit. However the pic of masking tape clamping the bud does not align at all with my image when reading the description lol. But it gave me ideas alright..

My 2nd attempt to open ty 320 (not that hard just normal pressure) the driver pop from the front cover so I use shirt clip that came with my iem to clamp driver to front cover. Don't want to risk the driver falling out again.

I'll risk my tomahawk when I receive my cable. I did order some cable for my vido bit I think tomahawk deserves better, light and supple cable.


----------



## slappypete

knudsen said:


> I've begun to warm them with a hairdryer, rotate the front clockwise/counterclockwise a couple of times, and after that pry it open with a nail. Don't you risk getting the alcohol where it does'nt belong?



Rotating the front cover may not be the best idea. If the two halves of the driver assembly twist on each other, you can easily snap a voicecoil wire. The two halves of the driver aren't glued together so I would worry about that personally.


----------



## rggz (Jul 22, 2017)

knudsen said:


> I've begun to warm them with a hairdryer, rotate the front clockwise/counterclockwise a couple of times, and after that pry it open with a nail. Don't you risk getting the alcohol where it does'nt belong?



I forgot to say, there are so many hair dryers types, but the one which I have there are 3 steps and I have been using the mid option which isn't too warm and works really well. It's important to target the airflow directly at the edges otherwise it can damage something. The alcohol part I just use in extreme cases, sometimes it's really hard to get off the glue and it helps a lot in my experience.

It's really cool to see everyone has your "own" method, some day I expect I can open my earbuds like golov does and not destroy them:


Spoiler


----------



## knudsen

slappypete said:


> Rotating the front cover may not be the best idea. If the two halves of the driver assembly twist on each other, you can easily snap a voicecoil wire. The two halves of the driver aren't glued together so I would worry about that personally.


You're absolutely right, I'm still a noob and just observed this wire for the first time today. Will probably still continue rotating it though. Just.... at little bit 

Is the driver supposed to be glued on to the front plastic? If there is something rattling, and it still rattles when I open the earbud up (so its not related to the connection to the house), should I be able to take the driver out of the plastic part? Well I tried and could'nt, but don't know if I'm supposed to... When I tried, the driver came apart in the 2 pieces (membrane + coil)


----------



## golov17 (Jul 22, 2017)

The most difficult to open OKER DS300 and Blox m2c mk2. And BGVP SIDY KT100 too


----------



## slappypete

knudsen said:


> You're absolutely right, I'm still a noob and just observed this wire for the first time today. Will probably still continue rotating it though. Just.... at little bit
> 
> Is the driver supposed to be glued on to the front plastic? If there is something rattling, and it still rattles when I open the earbud up (so its not related to the connection to the house), should I be able to take the driver out of the plastic part? Well I tried and could'nt, but don't know if I'm supposed to... When I tried, the driver came apart in the 2 pieces (membrane + coil)



The drivers are usually glued into the front cover, but not extremely well. It seems the manufacturers use a very small amount of glue along the edge of the driver assembly, not on the front of it. My Vido didn't seem to have any glue though. Another user mentioned rattling issues with their Vido and said it went away when applying pressure to the outer edge of the driver assembly, so gluing in a loose driver to the front cover may fix such issues.

It can be very hard to remove a driver from the front cover without ruining the front cover in the process. I have done it on my Vido using needle nose pliers to grip the magnet and gently work the driver out, without twisting side to side, but as I said the Vido didn't seem to be glued down anyway. I doubt that would work otherwise. I have successfully cut away the edges of the front cover before with a sharp hobby knife and liberated driver from front covers this way.

Hopefully you didn't break a voicecoil wire when you made your attempt at removing the driver. When the two halves of the driver come apart like that it is very easy to ruin them. All that is holding them together is the voicecoil wire. There are two of these voicecoil wires that travel through a notch in the edge of the rear driver assembly. Sometimes you just break one of them and it can be hard to tell until you solder everything back together and find out the driver doesn't work.

If you have a rattling issue and think it has to do with the driver assembly being loose then I might have an idea for you instead of removing the driver and re-gluing it... So basically when an earbud shell is closed the front cover and rear part of the shell work together to pinch the driver all the way around its perimeter edge. I think this is why it often doesn't matter if little glue is used. The shell holds the driver in place on its own. However, it may be possible that your particular shell and driver setup isn't pinching the driver enough and so it rattles. You could try to cut a very tiny sliver of tape or something similar and place it on the rear of the driver all along its perimeter, making sure to not cover the dampening area of the driver. This would essentially just make the outer edge of the driver a little thicker and should allow more pressure to be applied to the driver when the shell pinches it. Hopefully that made sense. Anyway might be worth a shot since it is easily reversible and you don't need to risk ruining the driver to try it out.


----------



## knudsen

slappypete said:


> The drivers are...


Thanks and excellent idea. I'd guess it would be an option to put a couple of layers of glue on the edge of the shell instead?

I might be a good idea to have a couple of extra front covers yes I also had the thought it would be much easier to just destroy the cover than get the driver out in one piece


----------



## slappypete (Jul 22, 2017)

knudsen said:


> Thanks and excellent idea. I'd guess it would be an option to put a couple of layers of glue on the edge of the shell instead?



Yeah that would likely work as well. You could also glue the rear shell to a piece of thin paper, then just cut away the excess until all you have left is paper glued to the thin edge of the rear shell that touches the driver.


----------



## springbay

Nice to read about all your experiments. Just a word of caution about glue.
Don't use any product that are advised not to come in contact with human skin.
I learned this the hard way when I used a Loctite product instead of Blutack to mod a pair of Philips SHE3800.
I got a severe head ache and my ears itched for weeks, even if it was only applied within the shell.
So, guys, please be smarter than me.


----------



## DBaldock9

slappypete said:


> Some of my recent wire findings:
> 
> I recently purchased some 32 AWG USSR military copper wire from ebay for making some 8 strand braided cables. I haven't made a cable with it yet, but I think the 32 AWG will work really well for 8 wire cables, and it is very reasonably priced. This is very thin stuff, about 0.5mm outer diameter, close to the size used on the Shozy BK. It has Teflon insulation so it is very heat resistant and won't melt on you when soldering. The Teflon insulation will also make for a fairly durable braided cable imo. The 32 AWG I think will have a nice flexibility in an 8 wire cable, but I can't speak to any of the thicker gauges. The insulation type as well as core count/number of strands in the wire will determine the flexibility of the wire. I didn't count the number of strands in the 32 AWG but I would guess around 8-10. If the thicker gauges don't up the number of strands, they may be too stiff for some peoples preferences. It is hard to tell in the photos of the wire if it is clear/transparent insulation or if it's pink. In reality it is transparent, but the insulation has some opacity, and isn't perfectly clear so the wire does sort of look pink. When looking up close in the light you can see the copper wire through the insulation.
> 
> There is some wire on Aliexpress that I would really like to try as well. This stuff is much more expensive but has a very high core count, and is likely very flexible, while still using Teflon insulation. The seller has a lot of other options as well. Keep in mind when looking at some of the cheaper options that the core count is very low, so the wire will be stiffer.




Is this the wire you bought?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-03mm2-32A...lon-PTFE-Wire-MGTF-QTY-20m-66ft-/252995254851
Have you tried it since your post above?
Is the combination of wire and insulation pretty supple & flexible, when it's braided into a 4- or 8-strand cable?


----------



## slappypete

DBaldock9 said:


> Is this the wire you bought?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-03mm2-32A...lon-PTFE-Wire-MGTF-QTY-20m-66ft-/252995254851
> Have you tried it since your post above?
> Is the combination of wire and insulation pretty supple & flexible, when it's braided into a 4- or 8-strand cable?



Yep that is the same wire. I haven't finished a cable yet, but I do have one almost finished. I made an 8 stranded round/square braid into two 4 strand round. I really like the wire. I braided it very tightly and it is very flexible still and doesn't seem to have coil memory issues either. With the tight braid the 8 strand section only measures 2mm diameter, yet somehow looks bigger to the eye. It turned out thinner than I thought it would but I have to say I really like it, and It feels very durable and high quality to me. As I said, the cable isn't finished, but I think it will be my favorite of any I have on any of my IEM's or earbuds when done, or maybe at least a tie with Shozy BK. I find the size and flexibility very practicle. Having said that, I'm thinking I might make a 16 strand cable with this stuff as well just for fun. If you want to see a photo of the braid I can post one tomorrow.


----------



## DBaldock9

slappypete said:


> Yep that is the same wire. I haven't finished a cable yet, but I do have one almost finished. I made an 8 stranded round/square braid into two 4 strand round. I really like the wire. I braided it very tightly and it is very flexible still and doesn't seem to have coil memory issues either. With the tight braid the 8 strand section only measures 2mm diameter, yet somehow looks bigger to the eye. It turned out thinner than I thought it would but I have to say I really like it, and It feels very durable and high quality to me. As I said, the cable isn't finished, but I think it will be my favorite of any I have on any of my IEM's or earbuds when done, or maybe at least a tie with Shozy BK. I find the size and flexibility very practicle. Having said that, I'm thinking I might make a 16 strand cable with this stuff as well just for fun. If you want to see a photo of the braid I can post one tomorrow.



Good to hear it's still flexible, when braided into a 8-strand cable.


----------



## DBaldock9

I found that some of the MX500 shells that I just received, have a very small opening between the inside of the shell, and the outer air passage.
It's fairly easy to make an opening, to allow the the outer passage to act as a "bass port".

I used a 7/64 drill bit, spinning it by hand, at the angle shown in these photos.  Once the end of the air passage opens up some, the drill bit can be leaned (to the Right in the photos) but take care not to tear up the end of the cable passage.
To make sure the new opening is clear, I used the curved end of a dental pick, holding the opening of the shell up, under a bright light, and looking down the passage (from the Left in the photos) with a magnifying lens.
The 3/32 drill bit is the correct size to make sure the end of the cable passage stays clear & open.
*NOTE:*  The _Helping-Hand_ was not used for anything other than holding the bit while I was taking the photos.


----------



## knudsen

In the earbuds-thread on facebook (I'm not on it, but its possible to read still) someone highly recommended this wire in the silver only version I think it was. Also 8 core and teflon. I've ordered it in pure copper to try something new.

Btw seller writes

"There are 8 cores, each core contains 7 strands x 0.1mm wires".

Can "strands" be used for both meanings?

I've tried opening the earbud I glued together with silicone, it came together quite easily. Probably too easily, but I will maybe try 1 more time. Not sure if the problem was that I cleaned the house with alcohol, but did'nt clean the front cover because of the risk of damaging something. Real glue might be more tolerant to some old glue residuals


----------



## slappypete (Jul 26, 2017)

knudsen said:


> In the earbuds-thread on facebook (I'm not on it, but its possible to read still) someone highly recommended this wire in the silver only version I think it was. Also 8 core and teflon. I've ordered it in pure copper to try something new.
> 
> Btw seller writes
> 
> ...



Nice, it looks exactly like the stuff I used to recable my Vido. I don't know if it is the same but the specs seem to be and it certainly looks like it. I found this wire to be ok, but I would prefer something more flexible. It is useable for me but not quite ideal, and I wouldn't want anything stiffer for my tastes. The wire has a bit of coil memory after taking it out of a case. I did a tight 4 wire round braid for the left and right above the Y split. The cable is microphonic maybe partly because of the tight braid. I think some soft shrink tubing around the knot in the cable inside the housing might fix that though. I think what the seller means when they say 8 core is that it's an 8 wire braid. There are then 7 strands of conductor inside each insulated wire and each strand is 0.1mm diameter.

Edit: I think it is safe to say the wire is the same as what I purchased. I just noticed the brand is listed as Acrolink where I purchased as well.


----------



## knudsen (Jul 26, 2017)

Bugger, seems this is not the cable to rule them all then. I always have the highest expectations 



slappypete said:


> I think what the seller means when they say 8 core is that it's an 8 wire braid. There are then 7 strands of conductor inside each insulated wire and each strand is 0.1mm diameter.


Agree, what confuses me a bit is that we have

8 strand braid
8 wire braid
8 core braid

all meaning the same And at least "strand" also has a different meaning


----------



## ozkan (Jul 29, 2017)

slappypete said:


> I've been meaning to measure the Ozkan Mod for a while and have been procrastinating. This shoutout was the kick in the pants I needed haha
> 
> So I measured the mod on just one channel of my Vido because the other channel is broken. I was impatient waiting for other Vido pairs to arrive in the mail so I used my main Vido drivers for a bunch of experimenting with the DIY Piano Forte I am working on. The drivers were in and out of various front covers and soldered to about a half dozen times at least. I eventually had a slip up and snapped a voice coil on one of the drivers. Anyway, point is I can't listen to this mod at the moment to give any subjective impressions for you. Here is the FR graph of the Ozkan mod:
> 
> ...




No offense but your measurement doesn't mean anything for me since you have a broken Vido to start with which one side doesn't work and you tried that mod on different shells which I think is misleading. That graph doesn't reflect the changes and what I hear after the mod.

Well to be honest I find all those graphs nonsense which some posters here try to prove how these mods change or don't change the sound as I trust on my ears.


----------



## golov17

ozkan said:


> No offense but your measurement doesn't mean anything for me since you have a broken Vido to start with which one side doesn't work and you tried that mod on different shells which I think is misleading. That graph doesn't reflect the changes and what I hear after the mod.
> 
> Well to be honest I find all those graphs nonsense which some posters here try to prove how these mods change or don't change the sound as I trust on my ears.


Agreed


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 30, 2017)

I find the graphs informative, but music is not a frequency sweep.
I'm not informed about this, so please correct me if I'm wrong:
To me the graph shows the quantity, but not the quality.
For example, having bass, is not the same as having a good bass.

I leave these questions:
Do speakers respond the same way to music as they do to single frequencies?
Can we equalize the freq. sweep, to get the same graph of a better driver?
Do we get the same music quality using that equalization?


----------



## DBaldock9 (Jul 31, 2017)

I've finished the Red & Blue sets of Earbuds that a co-worker is buying for her sons.  I'm including small cases, and some full & donut foams.

These were assembled with the "Bass" drivers, in the modified MX500 shells, using the foam "Tuning Cotton" (haven't yet received the white fabric tuning cotton), along with a bit of long-fiber acoustic stuffing in the housings.

Using the frequency sweeps on AudioCheck.net, they have good Bass (starting at 20Hz), and fairly smooth response up to where my hearing drops off (13 - 14KHz).


----------



## knudsen

ozkan said:


> Well to be honest I find all those graphs nonsense which some posters here try to prove how these mods change or don't change the sound as I trust on my ears.


I've tried but don't follow your standpoint at all.
Do you think all the measurements in this thread is nonsense too?
All newer surround receivers uses some kind of room correction, measures the response with a microphone and calculates an eq correction per channel. Do you find this is nonsense too?
Or is it just mods on earbuds that are impossible to measure?

Afaik you use white or pink noise when measuring, not a sweep. Surely there must be many more parameters (which I don't know about), but something like decay, distortion, phase rotation and much more. But to say that maybe the most important of them don't matter I find strange.

Btw I heard the 2k bump with the mod on both the monk and the vido before the graphs showed up, and did'nt like it on either.


----------



## Merlin-PT

knudsen said:


> Afaik you use white or pink noise when measuring, not a sweep.



Thanks, I didn't knew that.


----------



## slappypete

ozkan said:


> No offense but your measurement doesn't mean anything for me since you have a broken Vido to start with which one side doesn't work and you tried that mod on different shells which I think is misleading. That graph doesn't reflect the changes and what I hear after the mod.
> 
> Well to be honest I find all those graphs nonsense which some posters here try to prove how these mods change or don't change the sound as I trust on my ears.




No offense taken. The Vido I used had one broken channel, I did the mod on the working channel. That should be a non issue. I don't know what you mean when you say I used different shells? I used a stock Vido shell. 

FR graphs are certainly not the end all be all. They don't tell you if something sounds good, but they do provide an objective view of the frequency response of a headphone or speaker. It allows you to compare the weight or quantity of any frequency point between two headphones, or in this case between a stock and modded earbud. They allow you to visualize the sound signature of a headphone you like and compare to others. If two headphones share a similar frequency response on the same measurement system, then they probably have a similar sound signature/tonality or whatever you want to call it. There are of course other factors that determine which will ultimately sound better, such as distortion, timing/phase issues etc. 

Its obviously fine if you like your modded Vido better than stock. I didn't say it wasn't as good, i still haven't even listened to it. I just said based on the graphs I am skeptical, and that is my opinion based on my experiences reading my graphs and listening to buds and my own personal view on how they relate to real life. And just to be clear, If the graph shows a 2k bump, I'm not saying it will be a 2k bump in your ear necessarily. By the time the sound goes through a human ear the bump may not be at 2k, but I do think there will be a bump and slightly less even response compared to stock. That is an opinion based on my experiences with other buds which have a 2k bump on my graphs and also sound peaky in my ears. Having said that, the FR changes with your mod vs stock were very small anyway, so I doubt there is much difference. 

I really don't want to mislead anyone in here. I have always said to take my posts with a grain of salt, and I try my best to be clear about stating things as opinion rather than fact. I know some people in here enjoy the FR graphs so I will keep posting them when I have the time. I don't see how they can be any more misleading than the majority of opinions thrown around in here. It seems to me that most people describe changes in sound after mods from memory of the stock sound, and in my opinion, that isn't likely to lend a very objective view of the results. Out of curiosity how did you determine the changes in sound of your mod? do you have two pairs of Vido's? Did you listen to the modded Vido back to back with a stock one?


----------



## slappypete

Merlin-PT said:


> I find the graphs informative, but music is not a frequency sweep.
> I'm not informed about this, so please correct me if I'm wrong:
> To me the graph shows the quantity, but not the quality.
> For example, having bass, is not the same as having a good bass.
> ...




Your questions are really good ones. I will try and answer as best as I can, but I am not an expert. 

Speakers/headphones will respond to music in the same way they respond to a FR sweep. As you said, the FR graph will show the quantity of SPL at any given frequency. If a speaker/headphone FR measurement shows elevated treble response as an example, then you will hear elevated treble in music as well. Having said that though, you still can't take any old FR graph and say something like oh there is a peak at 10kHz so when I listen to these earbuds there will be as well. It does depend on the measurement system used and whether the FR graph has been compensated. My graphs are raw measurements, so while I think they are useful for comparing differences between earbuds, you do need to have a real world reference point, in ear, to have a better understanding of how they really sound. For example, if you own a Vido and you know how that sounds, then you could look at my FR graphs of the Vido compared to any other mx500 bud I have measured and infer the difference between them based on your understanding of how the Vido actually sounds and my graphs. This would give you an understanding of sound signature differences, but not necessarily sound quality and detail retrieval differences.  I hope that made some sense. If you are looking at more sophisticated graphs such as those at innerfidelity, then you could probably look at a given graph, see a peak at say 10kHz for example, and expect in real life to hear a peak at 10kHz as well, still with headphones its never guaranteed to be exactly where the graph says. 

Can we equalize the freq. sweep, to get the same graph of a better driver? 

You can do this, but the type of EQ will determine how well it will work in practice. Parametric EQ's are known to cause timing/phase issues and can really ruin the sound quality of a headphone or speaker. I have used parametric EQ to compensate speaker systems to measure perfectly flat in room, and the result was terrible. It can honestly be so bad that it sounds like you are listening to music out of a tin can. If you use FIR filtering (finite impulse response) then you can achieve really good sound quality even with lots of EQ. This is because FIR filters can implement linear phase filtering, which means the filter will have no phase shift across the entire frequency band. I am no expert in this stuff, but I have used both parametric EQ and FIR filtering to calibrate loudspeakers to have perfectly flat responses in room. The difference between the two is huge, absolutely night and day. This perfectly illustrates how FR graphs aren't the end all be all and don't say how good something actually sounds. The parametric EQ compensated speakers measured perfectly flat but sounded like garbage. If using parametric EQ it is best to stick to EQing the bass only since it is harder for the human ear to hear details down there compared to the mid range frequencies. It sometimes works alright for taming treble spikes as well. 

Do we get the same music quality using that equalization? 

I would say no, not really. You may be able to achieve a very high quality result when using FIR filtering, but how good the final result is still depends on how good your speaker system is. For example I could EQ a pair of transmission line loudspeakers with 4" full range drivers to have a flat FR down to say 40hz or so, but I couldn't expect the bass texture and quality to be on par with an open baffle system with 4x 16" woofers handling the bass.  The same would go for headphones. Depending on what you are trying to compare to as a reference you may get really close, or may still have some large differences.


----------



## slappypete

knudsen said:


> Afaik you use white or pink noise when measuring, not a sweep.



Pink noise can be used to set your speakers/headphone being measured to the desired SPL level before measurement. Frequency sweeps are what you use to do the actual measurement.


----------



## knudsen

slappypete said:


> Pink noise can be used to set your speakers/headphone being measured to the desired SPL level before measurement. Frequency sweeps are what you use to do the actual measurement.


Thanks... if you press the button "Measurement procedure" on the link to IEM measurements it says they use white noise (as far as I can see..). Have you tried both (sweep and white noise)?


----------



## Merlin-PT

I tried to learn a bit more about this and found this simple but informative article:
https://us.hardware.info/reviews/6080/2/13-headsets-review-listen-in-higher-quality-sound-quality

They show and explain the frequency sweep vs white noise graphs.


----------



## slappypete

knudsen said:


> Thanks... if you press the button "Measurement procedure" on the link to IEM measurements it says they use white noise (as far as I can see..). Have you tried both (sweep and white noise)?




Oh cool, no I haven't tried using white noise. I don't really know much about it to be honest. My limited understanding is that the white noise measurement will show the effects of harmonic distortion in the FR curve more than a sine wave frequency sweep measurement. The sine wave measurement will be more pure, in that it shows what the speaker is capable of reproducing in a narrower range. In a white noise measurement your driver is playing all frequencies at once so there will be more distortion. Which method is a more accurate reflection of the drivers ability to play music well I do not know. I think either method should serve a similar purpose and work well as long as you are comparing apples to apples.


----------



## chaiyuta

@slappypete : Do you know where to buy MX760 shell (same with DIY Graphene NiceHck earbuds)?


----------



## slappypete

chaiyuta said:


> @slappypete : Do you know where to buy MX760 shell (same with DIY Graphene NiceHck earbuds)?



It seems that the DIY Graphene actually uses a Beyerdynamic DP100 shell, not mx760 like the description says. When searching google for Sennheiser mx760's you will see that the mx760 shells actually look like these. When comparing google image results, the front cover for both the DP100 and mx760 looks identical in design. The rear shell port design is completely different though. I have a feeling that mx760 driver units might just snap on to the DP100 rear shell as if they were made for each other. If that is true, it might explain the mx760 term being used in listings for DP100 shells.

I couldn't find DP100 shells on Aliexpress, but did find a cheap assembled DP100. I found listings for DP100 shells on TaoBao here and here. I also found this other site selling them. It seems to be the same listing photos as the TaoBao link, but the site offers worldwide shipping at checkout. So does TaoBao, but TaoBao can be complicated if you have never used it before. This site might be easier, but I make no guarantees since I have never even heard of it until today.


----------



## Makahl

slappypete said:


> Oh cool, no I haven't tried using white noise. I don't really know much about it to be honest. My limited understanding is that the white noise measurement will show the effects of harmonic distortion in the FR curve more than a sine wave frequency sweep measurement. The sine wave measurement will be more pure, in that it shows what the speaker is capable of reproducing in a narrower range. In a white noise measurement your driver is playing all frequencies at once so there will be more distortion. Which method is a more accurate reflection of the drivers ability to play music well I do not know. I think either method should serve a similar purpose and work well as long as you are comparing apples to apples.



Have you tried measuring with Arta software? There are those 2 options and I think it shows the high-frequency more detailed and not that smooth like REW (or perhaps it's just an incorrect impression) but for a beginner like me, it's easier to figure out the overall peaks.


----------



## slappypete

Makahl said:


> Have you tried measuring with Arta software? There are those 2 options and I think it shows the high-frequency more detailed and not that smooth like REW (or perhaps it's just an incorrect impression) but for a beginner like me, it's easier to figure out the overall peaks.



No I haven't. Doesn't look like Arta is available on Linux. I will try running it in a VM sometime to check it out. A white noise measurement should look less smooth compared to a sine sweep, because it shows more distortion, at least that is my understanding.


----------



## vladstef (Aug 6, 2017)

@slappypete
Since DIY graphene earbud is actually really good, what kind of driver is it using? Is it regular - circular dynamic driver, with mentioned graphene coating?
I also wanted to mention this here, because I don't exactly see where else... there is a new Piano Forte DIY build on aliexpress, actually it is made to look like Lab 2, but I can already see from pictures that it isn't nowhere near as advanced based on vent holes alone. A very interesting thing is that both links mention BA driver, quite amazing if it's true. Links are here and here (260e without cables, that's brave of them )


----------



## fairx

I looked into diy Graphene on aliexpress. Found several different price but very similar looking earbud. Are they the same? The proce difference are up to 10 usd. It's really tempting


----------



## slappypete

vladstef said:


> @slappypete
> Since DIY graphene earbud is actually really good, what kind of driver is it using? Is it regular - circular dynamic driver, with mentioned graphene coating?
> I also wanted to mention this here, because I don't exactly see where else... there is a new Piano Forte DIY build on aliexpress, actually it is made to look like Lab 2, but I can already see from pictures that it isn't nowhere near as advanced based on vent holes alone. A very interesting thing is that both links mention BA driver, quite amazing if it's true. Links are here and here (260e without cables, that's brave of them )



haha those Lab II clones are pretty funny. The vent design is indeed nothing like the original. Cool they managed to get the mmcx connection in there. If they were priced like the DIY piano forte shells they could be a cool purchase. Btw I managed to get mmcx connections on my DIY PF. I will send you details in pm. 

The DIY Graphene driver looks like a normal round 15.4mm driver. I think it is safe to assume this is not a real graphene driver. Graphene coated?... maybe. Regardless, it is a good earbud for a fair price, so I'm happy. Here are some photos:



Spoiler: DIY Graphene Driver Photos




 




Anyone planning on opening these should try to be extra careful. The rear half of the driver assembly on mine easily pulls right out of the front cover, and the membrane half of the driver stays put so breaking a voicecoil wire would be really easy.


----------



## vladstef (Aug 6, 2017)

Oh, finally the mysterious "graphene" driver... Thanks to @slappypete , mystery no more, I am sure you are the first one to open a pair and post pictures. I am looking forward to a comparison between them and TY Hi-Z 150s, these 2 seem to be some of the better value propositions currently, although similarities end there.
I though NiceHCK was gonna be the only provider of these DIY graphene buds, but there are so many currently, I think only differences are cables/jack/casing color combinations and a few $ more or less (not sure about this, there could be a sound difference, need a stronger confirmation)

EDIT: Take this last sentence with a serious grain of salt, here is a picture from AK Audio Store where you can clearly see metal front cover, although rest of the pictures are regular plastic, this could've been a slip of unfinished product. I am almost 100% sure that these use the same graphene driver as the rest of these builds, just a very yellow shell xD, but also a different front cover. Also, this.


----------



## slappypete

vladstef said:


> Oh, finally the mysterious "graphene" driver... Thanks to @slappypete , mystery no more, I am sure you are the first one to open a pair and post pictures. I am looking forward to a comparison between them and TY Hi-Z 150s, these 2 seem to be some of the better value propositions currently, although similarities end there.
> I though NiceHCK was gonna be the only provider of these DIY graphene buds, but there are so many currently, I think only differences are cables/jack/casing color combinations and a few $ more or less (not sure about this, there could be a sound difference, need a stronger confirmation)
> 
> EDIT: Take this last sentence with a serious grain of salt, here is a picture from AK Audio Store where you can clearly see metal front cover, although rest of the pictures are regular plastic, this could've been a slip of unfinished product.



I am curious about the other Aliexpress listings as well. I like the look of this build in clear color better than the NiceHCK, but they have some weird tiny looking driver in some of the photos. Not sure what that is about lol.


----------



## vladstef

slappypete said:


> I am curious about the other Aliexpress listings as well. I like the look of this build in clear color better than the NiceHCK, but they have some weird tiny looking driver in some of the photos. Not sure what that is about lol.


Those drivers are there for the "artistic touch", lmao XD (I guess, you never know)


----------



## golov17

**** PT15 membrane


----------



## Merlin-PT (Aug 8, 2017)

Found this DIY guide to put MMCX connectors in earbuds, result is very good:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=84uRCnDMWJI

Same video with sound + links to parts used in text:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dpyiJnqv18


----------



## Merlin-PT (Aug 8, 2017)

I open the Pioneer SE-CE521-K to take a look inside and found a very small 24 ohm SMD resistor in PCB on the back of each driver.
Forgot to put a arrow to show were it is, it's almost pinhead size, the SMD is the black rectangle on the green PCB, soldered near the red wire.
The are also 4 small vent holes on top near the PCB.


Spoiler: Click img for full size



At the jack the drivers measure 58.6 ohms each.
At the driver (including the resistor) measures 56.8 Ohm, so the cable measures 1.8 ohm.
The SMD resistor measures 24 ohms and the driver without resistor measures 32.8 ohm.


----------



## silverfishla

golov17 said:


> **** PT15 membrane


So I just took the Drivers and covers off of my old PT15 Senfers (really trebly older ones), took the tuning foam off, replaced it with some earbud foam material, then superglued the edges of that to some Monk+ shells and used the Monk + cord.  Sounds great.  Those drivers are actually really good and resolving.  Lack of bass, apparently is with the design or tuning of the PT15 **** shell or tuning foam.  In the Monk shells, they sound very well rounded.


----------



## golov17

silverfishla said:


> So I just took the Drivers and covers off of my old PT15 Senfers (really trebly older ones), took the tuning foam off, replaced it with some earbud foam material, then superglued the edges of that to some Monk+ shells and used the Monk + cord.  Sounds great.  Those drivers are actually really good and resolving.  Lack of bass, apparently is with the design or tuning of the PT15 **** shell or tuning foam.  In the Monk shells, they sound very well rounded.


Agreed


----------



## sodasoda

I want to take my time with the earbuds drivers.

https://m.aliexpress.com/store/sub_...owType=3x3&group=260910006&sortType=salesDesc

And have clarification if any of these are good.


----------



## Makahl (Aug 10, 2017)

Hey, has someone with the two versions of Vido (mic and no-mic) spotted differences in the vido's drivers? I was reading the fb page today and apparently the Mic/No-mic version has a slightly different configuration. But I didn't understand exactly what are those differences.



Spoiler













FR


----------



## KookaBurrra

Makahl said:


> Hey, has someone with the two versions of Vido (mic and no-mic) spotted differences in the vido's drivers? I was reading the fb page today and apparently the Mic/No-mic version has a slightly different configuration. But I didn't understand exactly what are those differences.



The "mic". The only difference is the mic. This is what change the sound (maybe by changing impedance of cable?)...


----------



## slappypete

Makahl said:


> Hey, has someone with the two versions of Vido (mic and no-mic) spotted differences in the vido's drivers? I was reading the fb page today and apparently the Mic/No-mic version has a slightly different configuration. But I didn't understand exactly what are those differences.



I just opened a non mic Vido to compare. The drivers and tuning configuration are the same. I suspect any changes in FR are due to driver variation. My white Vido has one treblier driver than the other. I mentioned it in past posts. I do think the driver with more treble is better, and having two matched drivers with that response would be the ideal Vido IMO. My white Vido is recabled and measurements didn't change from the recable job. BTW for anyone thinking of recabling, the blue non mic'd Vido I just opened was extremely easy to open, I just used my fingers. The white Vido was very difficult by comparison. Here is a photo of the two Vido's tuning config and drivers:


----------



## Makahl

slappypete said:


> I just opened a non mic Vido to compare. The drivers and tuning configuration are the same. I suspect any changes in FR are due to driver variation. My white Vido has one treblier driver than the other. I mentioned it in past posts. I do think the driver with more treble is better, and having two matched drivers with that response would be the ideal Vido IMO. My white Vido is recabled and measurements didn't change from the recable job. BTW for anyone thinking of recabling, the blue non mic'd Vido I just opened was extremely easy to open, I just used my fingers. The white Vido was very difficult by comparison. Here is a photo of the two Vido's tuning config and drivers:



Thank you, slappypete! So the variation is a real thing. I should've bought more pairs . So now do you have a pair with the FR matched? I'd imagine this improve the stereo accuracy.


----------



## slappypete

Makahl said:


> Thank you, slappypete! So the variation is a real thing. I should've bought more pairs . So now do you have a pair with the FR matched? I'd imagine this improve the stereo accuracy.



Not yet, but I plan on it  Not expecting any drastic quality differences overall, but it will be cool to have.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> I went ahead and placed an order for the Yuming Store "Tuning Cotton" (Y1, Y2, Y3, Y4, Y5, & Y6), and I'll know in a couple of weeks, whether Anna understood my request for the multiple thicknesses...



Most of the order has arrived - I received 1 lot of each of Y2 - Y6, but no Y1.
I guess I'll have to contact the store, and see if they have the Y1, and whether they can ship it, or refund my $9, if it's not available.

I used a couple of the Y2 (thin) Tuning Cottons on a set of earbuds I finished assembling this evening.
They're made with this "16mm DIY Subwoofer Speaker" [ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/16m...y-earphone-headphone-headset/32760189047.html ], mounted in the modified MX500 shells, and including some of the Acoustic Insulation in the cavity behind the drivers.
With a short listening session, I think that the drivers I used in the previous earbuds, the "15.4mm Bass Driver" [ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-4mm-speaker-unit-earphone-driver-bass-vocal/32477644538.html ], actually has better low Bass response.

For those who have done some experimenting - if you use thicker Tuning Cotton, do you generally get increased or reduced low Bass response?


----------



## noknok23

A guy did experiment with tuning foam. In short: the denser the  foam the brighter it will be.

Wondering what level of sq do you have with this? Does it sound any good? At what range would you compare it with?


----------



## slappypete

DBaldock9 said:


> Most of the order has arrived - I received 1 lot of each of Y2 - Y6, but no Y1.
> For those who have done some experimenting - if you use thicker Tuning Cotton, do you generally get increased or reduced low Bass response?



Nice job on your earbuds, they look awesome.

I don't think there are too many rules of thumb here. I think results are very much driver dependent, and what works well for one driver won't for another. For example, the DIY Graphene uses tuning foam glued to the rear shell ports, and tuning cotton applied to the rear of the driver for its tuning configuration. This works really well for this earbud, and bass extension and quantity is quite good IMO, but this same tuning configuration when used on the EB200 yields significantly different results. There is a mid bass bump and upper mids peak on the EB200. I also used this tuning configuration for a Monk+ mod in the past and it looked decent in graphs, but the bass response was very poor in practice. I should mention though that even though all three of these earbuds used the same style of tuning configuration, I can't say if the densities of foam/paper were the same in all.

I haven't compared the different thicknesses of tuning cotton that you have, since I don't have them, but I have experimented using more than one layer of tuning cotton, which I imagine would be somewhat similar. I've done this on a few earbuds, but here is a graph showing the difference between one and two pieces of tuning cotton on a Monk+:



Spoiler: Tuning Cotton







In this case the difference wasn't that big, which isn't to say it couldn't be on other drivers. Unfortunately I don't have the measurements with 3 or 4 layers used. I run out of open measurement slots in REW all the time when modding so I delete things as I go. I can tell you though, that eventually you get to a point where too much dampening is used, regardless of the type of dampening, and at that point the mid range becomes flattened in the graphs, and a big peak will form in the upper mids (usually around 2k on my graphs). The graphs will look like the bass extension is still ok, but in practice it will not be good at all, and the earbud will sound harsh. IMO each driver is different in terms of where this over-dampening point will be. Here is another graph of the Monk+ showing stock tuning foam configuration vs two layers of tuning foam (2nd layer of foam just resting on the first, not glued):



Spoiler: Tuning Foam







You mentioned in your post that you have acoustic insulation in the cavity behind the drivers... If you haven't already, you might want to try listening to the earbuds without this extra stuffing to see if it is over-dampening similar to the last graph.


----------



## DBaldock9

Thanks for your insights & suggestions. 
I'll probably spend some time this weekend, trying some different tuning ideas.


----------



## vladstef

Here is the Fengru EMX500 driver. These are hard to get into, some prying was necessary and had some glue on the driver, after scraping it off, driver comes out of front cover with ease, similar to Vidos.


Spoiler: EMX500


----------



## silverfishla (Aug 12, 2017)

I'll tell you, the more I bust open the lesser expensive earbuds, the more I can apprecaite the Monk+.  It's well constructed and has a great cord.  In fact, I put a Monk+ cord on a pair of Edifier H180 and it sounds fantastic.  What a difference, and I already liked the Edifier as is.  What a great combo, huge soundstage, big luscious bass and clarity in the mids.  A real winning synergy.


----------



## noknok23

I think monk+ and asura 2 share the same build quality so yes it's very good!


----------



## chaiyuta

slappypete said:


> It seems that the DIY Graphene actually uses a Beyerdynamic DP100 shell, not mx760 like the description says. When searching google for Sennheiser mx760's you will see that the mx760 shells actually look like these. When comparing google image results, the front cover for both the DP100 and mx760 looks identical in design. The rear shell port design is completely different though. I have a feeling that mx760 driver units might just snap on to the DP100 rear shell as if they were made for each other. If that is true, it might explain the mx760 term being used in listings for DP100 shells.
> 
> I couldn't find DP100 shells on Aliexpress, but did find a cheap assembled DP100. I found listings for DP100 shells on TaoBao here and here. I also found this other site selling them. It seems to be the same listing photos as the TaoBao link, but the site offers worldwide shipping at checkout. So does TaoBao, but TaoBao can be complicated if you have never used it before. This site might be easier, but I make no guarantees since I have never even heard of it until today.


I look up to the taobao site. They say for black DP100 shell is sold without the front cover meanwhile transparent DP100 shell is sold with the white front cover. Do you know any further website that sell the black front cover or any DP100-compatible front cover?


----------



## DBaldock9

For any of your DIY Earbud projects, have you been able to find a "Mic / Audio Control" module (Android), to install on your own twisted/braided cable?
On AliExpress, I've found a number of replacement cables, which include a "Mic / Audio Control" module, but not any separate modules.
I'd prefer not having to break one open, to try and install it on my own cable.

Any links would be appreciated.

Thanks,
David Baldock


----------



## slappypete

chaiyuta said:


> I look up to the taobao site. They say for black DP100 shell is sold without the front cover meanwhile transparent DP100 shell is sold with the white front cover. Do you know any further website that sell the black front cover or any DP100-compatible front cover?



I couldn't find any specifically listed as DP100 covers, but I believe these are the same. They come with drivers in the covers, but you can easily rip them out if you don't like them. 

In my last post I said "the front cover for both the DP100 and mx760 looks identical in design". This actually isn't true. They are very similar looking, but I noticed just now that the DP100 looks to be based on a mx760 cover, but not identical. The standard mx760 cover I believe is like this listing. The hole pattern in the cover looks very similar but notice on the DP100 cover the center holes are all drilled through except for one, and on the mx760 none are drilled through, they are just little divots. I confirmed that my DIY Graphene front cover looks like the first link, with holes drilled through.


----------



## slappypete

DBaldock9 said:


> For any of your DIY Earbud projects, have you been able to find a "Mic / Audio Control" module (Android), to install on your own twisted/braided cable?
> On AliExpress, I've found a number of replacement cables, which include a "Mic / Audio Control" module, but not any separate modules.
> I'd prefer not having to break one open, to try and install it on my own cable.
> 
> ...



I found a couple by searching "diy mic" on aliexpress. Here they are, one and two. They were on the first page, I didn't go through the rest so there may be more. Also, I'm not sure if they are for android or not.


----------



## rggz (Aug 13, 2017)

I received my second batch of Vidos yesterday and this time all pairs have shown an imbalance on FR. I wouldn't call this new batch bass-heads either, just mid-bass bump at the best over my 1st pair which has some impressive sub-bass for an earbud. I think the major problem isn't the driver per se but they haven't a secure seal or any glue on front cover causing some alignment issue creating this slight imbalance when we measure them.

Btw, I got some measurements with these new 3 pairs (foamless) in here (my humble rig is just to check the channel balance not the FR's accuracy, so don't mind my graphic for that).


----------



## slappypete

rggz said:


> I received my second batch of Vidos yesterday and this time all pairs have shown an imbalance on FR. I wouldn't call this new batch bass-heads either, just mid-bass bump at the best over my 1st pair which has some impressive sub-bass for an earbud. I think the major problem isn't the driver per se but they haven't a secure seal or any glue on front cover causing some alignment issue creating this slight imbalance when we measure them.
> 
> Btw, I got some measurements with these new 3 pairs (foamless) in here (my humble rig is just to check the channel balance not the FR's accuracy, so don't mind my graphic for that).



Interesting, thanks for sharing. I am pretty confident saying the difference in FR between channels in the white Vido I have is due to driver variation. I Don't have all the measurements anymore to prove this, but I did measure the earbuds before ever opening them, and these were glued firmly. I also measured them after opening them, and after recabling them. One driver always had better treble than the other. Bass response on my rig was practically the same for all of these measurements. I noticed changes in FR in other earbuds when the drivers weren't aligned properly when snapping onto the rear shell. The V or U notch in the rear of the driver, where the voicecoil wires travel through, should be aligned so it is aiming straight up (away from rear shell shaft, or direction of cable) when attaching to rear shell. I have two pairs of new Blue Vidos, I will measure them when I have time.

When you are measuring your Vido's are you taking multiple measurements per channel, and averaging your results? Are FR results in bass region fairly repeatable? 

I take at least 5 measurements per channel and re-seat the earbud on my coupler for each measurement, then average them. If I didn't do this I would have lots of variation. I also don't like foamless measurements on my rig. I find it very hard to get a proper seal on the coupler, and more measurements are required to find a decent average, compared to using foam. Of course I don't know what your measurement system consists of, so this may not be an issue for you like it is for me.


----------



## DBaldock9

slappypete said:


> I found a couple by searching "diy mic" on aliexpress. Here they are, one and two. They were on the first page, I didn't go through the rest so there may be more. Also, I'm not sure if they are for android or not.



Thanks for the links. 
The first one, with the Volume Control buttons, has this note in the description - "This remote now work for Iphone itouch ipad. If you use this remote on other device the volume control function maybe not work." - so it may not work with Android devices.
The second one, doesn't appear to have Volume Control buttons, just a Mic - so it will probably work with any sort of device.

I'd like to find a Mic w/Volume Controls, for my Android phone.
I might order #1, just to see if it works.


----------



## rggz (Aug 13, 2017)

slappypete said:


> Interesting, thanks for sharing.



Haha, thank you for the suggestions too! It's just a small thing and I think for its price isn't fair expecting the perfection though. But, I'd say my experience with DD in earbuds were constantly impressive regarding the channel balance, even the Monk+ which has a similar price has a perfect channel match. That's the first time I found something odd with earbuds, the last time was building an IEM with BAs and if the damper wasn't 100% in the right place the difference between the channels were huge.



> I am pretty confident saying the difference in FR between channels in the white Vido I have is due to driver variation. I Don't have all the measurements anymore to prove this, but I did measure the earbuds before ever opening them, and these were glued firmly. I also measured them after opening them, and after recabling them. One driver always had better treble than the other. Bass response on my rig was practically the same for all of these measurements. I noticed changes in FR in other earbuds when the drivers weren't aligned properly when snapping onto the rear shell. The V or U notch in the rear of the driver, where the voicecoil wires travel through, should be aligned so it is aiming straight up (away from rear shell shaft, or direction of cable) when attaching to rear shell. I have two pairs of new Blue Vidos, I will measure them when I have time.



I bet you're right, I was just imagining a possibility for that regular problem in every pair. Would be nice check your new measurements!



> When you are measuring your Vido's are you taking multiple measurements per channel, and averaging your results? Are FR results in bass region fairly repeatable?
> I take at least 5 measurements per channel and re-seat the earbud on my coupler for each measurement, then average them. If I didn't do this I would have lots of variation. I also don't like foamless measurements on my rig. I find it very hard to get a proper seal on the coupler, and more measurements are required to find a decent average, compared to using foam. Of course I don't know what your measurement system consists of, so this may not be an issue for you like it is for me.



Yes, I've measured at least 2-3 times to check the avg and it was enough to see if there's a big difference at the treble, but just 1 pair had the bass not matched. Another example: I did a small experiment using a sealed earbud with adhesive around the housing and one without any glue or adhesive - here. I measured twice per channel and the results were pretty the same. The curves have a similar pattern but the treble peaks are different in practically every Vido.

Well, at least they're cheap and sound quite nice. To be honest, I think I was expecting a bit too much haha.


----------



## knudsen (Aug 17, 2017)

Sometimes this happens why I try to solder - the left "solder base" is gone and now attached to the solder iron. I can't even see what it was connected to on the driver, so I'm rather puzzled. Can I still use the driver? Can I avoid this somehow? Thanks


----------



## DBaldock9

knudsen said:


> Sometimes this happens why I try to solder - the left "solder base" is gone and now attached to the solder iron. I can't even see what it was connected to on the driver, so I'm rather puzzled. Can I still use the driver? Can I avoid this somehow? Thanks



It's a somewhat blurry image, but there is an etch, arcing down the left side of the circuit board (under the insulated coating), from under the top-left Blue Dot, to where the solder pad was.
If you're careful, and don't use a soldering iron that too hot, you should be able to scrape the coating off a bit of the etch, and solder the wire to it.
It would probably be a good idea to glue the wire down to the circuit board, to keep from over-stressing the etch that's already been damaged.


----------



## knudsen (Aug 17, 2017)

DBaldock9 said:


> It's a somewhat blurry image, but there is an etch, arcing down the left side of the circuit board (under the insulated coating), from under the top-left Blue Dot, to where the solder pad was.
> If you're careful, and don't use a soldering iron that too hot, you should be able to scrape the coating off a bit of the etch, and solder the wire to it.
> It would probably be a good idea to glue the wire down to the circuit board, to keep from over-stressing the etch that's already been damaged.


Thanks a lot David, will try to check what you mean tomorrow in better light. Do you think the problem arises from too much heat in the first place?

And sorry yes, the image was not supposed to turn out that large


----------



## DBaldock9

For my 1000th post, I've got a question for those who have assembled or modified their own earbuds - 

*Do you have a list of the drivers, shells, & "tuning cotton" you've tried - and your impressions of their sound?*

As of 19-AUG-17, I've used these four drivers:

1.) "16mm Headphones accessories Subwoofer Speaker unit for diy earphone headphone headset" - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/16m...y-earphone-headphone-headset/32760189047.html
Used in modified MX500 shells, with a Y2 thickness of the "Y2/Y3/Y4/Y5/Y6 Earbud headphones horseshoe tuning cotton" - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Y2Y...eaker-unit-complex-for-mx500/32809374899.html
These sounded pretty good overall, but didn't have as much low Bass as #2, so I removed them from the MX500 shells, and haven't decided how I'm going to use them.

2.) "15.4mm speaker unit earphone driver bass" - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-4mm-speaker-unit-earphone-driver-bass-vocal/32477644538.html
Used in modified MX500 shells, with the "Aipinchun Diy Earphone Unit Tuning Cotton Dust-Proof with Self-Adhesive Glue for MX500" - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Aip...Self-Adhesive-Glue-for-MX500/32807669592.html
These were the two sets of earbuds I assembled for a co-worker's sons, so I didn't listen to them for very long.
They seem to have good Bass, and a balanced Midrange & Treble.

3.) "15.4mm speaker unit earphone driver vocal" - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-4mm-speaker-unit-earphone-driver-bass-vocal/32477644538.html
Used in MX760 shells, with a Y2 thickness of the "Y2/Y3/Y4/Y5/Y6 Earbud headphones horseshoe tuning cotton".
They have nearly as much Bass as the "Bass" model, and a balanced Midrange & Treble.

4.) "15.4mm speaker unit double unit hifi moving coil Tri-band equalization "- https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...band-equalization-1pair-2pcs/32800609693.html
Used in MX760 shells, with a Y3 thickness of the "Y2/Y3/Y4/Y5/Y6 Earbud headphones horseshoe tuning cotton".
They have a bit less Bass than the "Vocal" drivers, and good Midrange & Treble.


I will be trying some additional models of drivers and shells - ordering some different 15.4mm drivers, and also some smaller 14.8mm drivers, along with PK1 / PK2 shells.


----------



## ricesteam

I want to get started in DIY. How do you guys know which drivers to look for? Where do you buy them? Or is it all trial and error?


----------



## DBaldock9

ricesteam said:


> I want to get started in DIY. How do you guys know which drivers to look for? Where do you buy them? Or is it all trial and error?



Well, the most commonly available DIY shells, are the MX500, MX760, and the PK1 / PK2.
I just searched on AliExpress for 15.4mm speakers, to use in the MX500 & MX760 shells; and searched for 14.8mm speakers, to fit the PK shells.

There appear to be drivers described as "vocal", "bass", "heavy bass", "hifi", and probably several other things.  They're also available in various impedances - from 16Ω up to 300Ω, or more.

So, I just picked a few of the lower impedance drivers, that didn't cost too much, and gave them a try.
I'll probably try a couple of the higher impedance (150Ω - 300Ω) drivers, as well.

If you have easy access to TaoBao, you might be able to find better prices than on AliExpress - but I haven't had much luck searching their site, since I don't read Chinese.


----------



## rggz

I've been testing some combinations with Vido's drivers recently and finally, I found something I really liked using an old Mrice E100's housing. It allows fit in two different ways which will give different results, my favorite method is fitting them like that, at least with my ears' shape that's the best way and wider sound I got with that drivers. 

Mod steps *here*. 

Also, reading the Earbuds thread recently some people were claiming really good things about RX-1 which IMO is just a decent earbud at low volumes with mids too forward to enjoy my favorite genres (prog/instrumental metal). However, after seeing the MX500 front cover I figured out there are vents just surrounding the front cover but nothing at the center so I tried a similar thing on RX-1 covering the center with an electrical tape. Mod *here.*

The good thing now the mids are more controlled and listenable at moderate volumes but treble somehow still a bit slow for my taste, so... back to the drawer.


----------



## noknok23

Dear, do you have test tracks or easy check technique to see when one channel is reverse polarity? I find it hard to hear obvious differences. But I'm not 100% sure I wired right. Thanks


----------



## golov17

noknok23 said:


> Dear, do you have test tracks or easy check technique to see when one channel is reverse polarity? I find it hard to hear obvious differences. But I'm not 100% sure I wired right. Thanks


http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php


----------



## calico88

any recommendation top 3 16mm driver ?
or 15.4mm ?
and where to buy?

btw, nobody ever do the review of drivers ?


----------



## golov17

Just share


----------



## calico88

does anyone has a detail picture of the original shell of MX500 ?
I wonder what's the hole next/sides to the cable at the back for ?

I don't see it through the chamber of the driver on my fake mx500 shell.

I wonder if it's function like "horn" for single driver home speaker ?

since I don't have original MX500 and never seen it, can some one can show me that hole photo?
or it's just a cosmetic ?


----------



## DBaldock9

calico88 said:


> does anyone has a detail picture of the original shell of MX500 ?
> I wonder what's the hole next/sides to the cable at the back for ?
> 
> I don't see it through the chamber of the driver on my fake mx500 shell.
> ...




For some earbuds that I assembled in MX500 shells, I used a small drill bit (turned by hand) and a dental pick, to open up the air channel into the back chamber.
The clamp that's shown, was only used for holding the bit at the correct angle for the photo.
.


----------



## calico88

does it sound better after you drill ?
is the original mx500 like that ?


----------



## silverfishla

I just cannot get a good solder on a 2.5mm TRRS plug!!  I've burned up two of them already.  Any one have any good soldering methodology to help out?  Those plugs are just too tiny and don't have a great surface to adhere to.  I wish they made those bigger.


----------



## calico88

silverfishla said:


> I just cannot get a good solder on a 2.5mm TRRS plug!!  I've burned up two of them already.  Any one have any good soldering methodology to help out?  Those plugs are just too tiny and don't have a great surface to adhere to.  I wish they made those bigger.


photos ?


----------



## DBaldock9

calico88 said:


> does it sound better after you drill ?
> is the original mx500 like that ?



I haven't assembled any earbuds in the AliExpress MX500 shells, without opening the air channel.
I've only been buying earbuds for less than a year, and have never seen an original MX500.


----------



## sososerious

silverfishla said:


> I just cannot get a good solder on a 2.5mm TRRS plug!!  I've burned up two of them already.  Any one have any good soldering methodology to help out?  Those plugs are just too tiny and don't have a great surface to adhere to.  I wish they made those bigger.



I struggled for a long time and found some connectors were just too small / plastic to heat without damaging.

I found a few solutions...

1) use a decent separate flux and high quality audio specific solder

2) buy some 2.5mm female sockets and plug the connectors in; you can solder all the pins on the female to a long length of thick guage wire and it works like a heatsink.

I still mess up connectors sometimes but the above gives me a fighting chance! Dual 3.5mm for my pono is much easier to achieve!


----------



## DBaldock9

silverfishla said:


> I just cannot get a good solder on a 2.5mm TRRS plug!!  I've burned up two of them already.  Any one have any good soldering methodology to help out?  Those plugs are just too tiny and don't have a great surface to adhere to.  I wish they made those bigger.



I'm using an old XYTronic Auto-Temp 168-3C adjustable temperature solder station, that I bought back in the early- or mid-1980s.
It has a fairly small tip, but not as small as I'd like - since electronics are a lot smaller now, than they were in the '80s.


----------



## silverfishla

sososerious said:


> I struggled for a long time and found some connectors were just too small / plastic to heat without damaging.
> 
> I found a few solutions...
> 
> ...


Thanks, I will try that.  I have a Pono too!  Yes, much easier to make a cable for that, I agree!


----------



## sososerious

silverfishla said:


> Thanks, I will try that.  I have a Pono too!  Yes, much easier to make a cable for that, I agree!



No problem, they can be a real pain!

Something else that helps me (but others may recommend against) is using a very high temperature but very short 'contact' with the pins/pads.

Depending on the way the connector is shielded, this may work brilliantly or may leave you with a molten plastic mess!


----------



## noknok23

sososerious said:


> No problem, they can be a real pain!
> 
> Something else that helps me (but others may recommend against) is using a very high temperature but very short 'contact' with the pins/pads.
> 
> Depending on the way the connector is shielded, this may work brilliantly or may leave you with a molten plastic mess!


imo better keep low temperatures... high temperature may damage your soldering iron end (150Celcius is enough to melt the thin, higher than that... not good afaik). Better use a third hand, specific pliers, with a magnifier and a light helps a lot.


----------



## snip3r77

noknok23 said:


> imo better keep low temperatures... high temperature may damage your soldering iron end (150Celcius is enough to melt the thin, higher than that... not good afaik). Better use a third hand, specific pliers, with a magnifier and a light helps a lot.


why is it so difficult to diy an earbud?
is it a tool or skill issue?
from what I read, mostly it's due to "burning" the driver.


----------



## vladstef (Oct 23, 2017)

After months of delays, finally finished my DIY PF. It uses Fengru EMX500 drivers but can fit inside any 15.4mm MX type driver. Had many problems given that this is my very first diy project when it comes to audio. Inside, the brass had parts that needed to be sanded down in order to accommodate the front MX plastic shell, which also had to be sanded and thinned out on the sides plus shortened so that the brass back can fit (and the brass back had to be sanded in some ways as it wouldn't fully close without it). Tuning was also very difficult as this driver isn't exactly properly tuned for this kind of shell, so I removed the drivers at least 50 times before deciding that I had to use just a regular shell and no tape/foam/cotton on vents nor any inside walls. Cable, although beautiful imho, transfers a lot of noise while walking and is stiff. (Didn't have any heat shrinks, but  would've used some, not that it actually needs any at this point).
Currently, these things provide details for days and the sound stage is just massive beyond imagination, but there are some resonant peaks going on across the frequency response, and somehow, only happens when pushed loudly. These peaks are not unbearable and never come close to being sibilant, although there is some low-mid range bloat especially with piano (ironic...). With a different driver and perhaps someone to properly do the tuning for that given driver, these could easily be the most valuable pair of headphones that I've seen. Obviously, these shells resemble Final's way too much and there is a question of ethics (although, this is diy and not a real product..). Personally, I am still looking forward to buying the real deal, this was just something to bring me into DIY world and keep me entertained, but it resulted into a very good and beautiful thing.


----------



## vladstef (Apr 8, 2018)

I've had to remove these beautiful but ultimately unusable cables. There is only so much that I can tolerate and stiff cables are not it. So, I took a few photos of the inside. Sorry for the terrible soldering job (lack of proper equipment and experience) and micro pore tape all over the place (this is needed in order to keep the driver in the plastic shell plus EMX500 driver is very sensitive to the pressure on the sides, so many people have given up on fixing the rattling EMX membrane but it's fixable here where there is a lot of pressure around). As you can see, I've kept as little plastic as possible, just to barely hold the driver in place.
The only nice thing about this is that there is residue glue left on the notch and I don't need any more glue to keep them together, there is more than enough friction to hold everything.


----------



## DBaldock9

Wong Kuan Wae, the maker of "Blur" Earbuds, showed me a technique for modifying a Neutrik connector to make a compact right-angle plug - and I've used it to assemble this 2.5mm TRRS Plug -to- 2.5mm TRRS Jack extension cable, with 4-ft of "PAPRI 8 cores Trenzado Teflon OCC Copper Cable".  I still need to fill the housing with Silicone or Epoxy glue, and slide the strain relief in to place.
.
The 2.5mm TRRS Jack is from Eidolic, and it's the best one I've found, for making a very secure connection.
.
This cable is fairly stiff, and will be used at home, with my Onkyo DP-X1 DAP or Walnut F1 Amp.
.


----------



## seanc6441

Bought some Yuin Housing's and two drivers to test in them. One is the **** PT15 without cable for €8.50 the other is from 'chitty's store' on Aliexpress named the PK1 pink diaphragm 32 ohms for €9.71.

Going to test them both and see how they sound. Need to buy a cheapish but nice cable for them. Still looking out for one unless anyone has a suggestion. Probably want a braided cable, or a softed coated cable. Have these in mind but I heard a few people mentioning Rhodium plugs and since I'm a bit suspicious of hifi cables and their exuberant prices, I would like to try one out but only if the price is right.


----------



## voxdub

Does anyone have any experience with drilling out additional holes in Mx500 shells and the differences it makes to the sound in general? Got 4 pairs of Vidos to rebuild with new cables and shells, plus some EMX500s, interested for any suggestions for how I can make them all sound different just to try.


----------



## DBaldock9

Finished the companion to the 2.5mm TRRS Extension Cable that I built.
This one is a 3.5mm TRS Extension Cable - using Neutrik connectors at both ends, and 4-ft of the 8-Strand Braided wire - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fle...-Fidelidad-Auriculares-DIY-8/32784850684.html
Now I have quality extension cables for my Balanced & Single-Ended earbuds.
Since this wire is fairly stiff, these extensions are for use in my home system.
.


----------



## voxdub

Has anyone tried the Aiyima 16ohm drivers? They cost approx. $8 for 10 pairs on AE, totally blown away for the price, lovely high end extension and bass is present.


----------



## hellfire8888

Here is my mini review. Just for fun

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/2017-new-nicehck-diy-mx500-pk1-earbud.22810/reviews#review-19588


----------



## richardstring

Hi just want to share my diy buds from Chitty store. 150ohms has great Mids and clarity very neutral sound and 300 ohms has warm sound sig. These buds have large amount of sound like a headphone. Anyone can recommend a good sounding driver from AliExpress? Thank you!


----------



## dennisopk

DBaldock9 said:


> Finished the companion to the 2.5mm TRRS Extension Cable that I built.
> This one is a 3.5mm TRS Extension Cable - using Neutrik connectors at both ends, and 4-ft of the 8-Strand Braided wire - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fle...-Fidelidad-Auriculares-DIY-8/32784850684.html
> Now I have quality extension cables for my Balanced & Single-Ended earbuds.
> Since this wire is fairly stiff, these extensions are for use in my home system.
> .


Please provide the link to where you purchase the female 2.5mm TRRS plug.Thanks


----------



## DBaldock9

dennisopk said:


> Please provide the link to where you purchase the female 2.5mm TRRS plug.Thanks



That particular photo is of the 3.5mm TRS Plug and Jack extension cable I made.

You have to go up a few posts, to see the 2.5mm TRRS Plug and Jack extension cable.

For the 2.5mm TRRS Female Jack, the best one I've found, for making a very secure connection, is from Eidolic, but it it doesn't have a back-shell - you have to use heat-shrink.
In the USA, they're most easily available from:
Double Helix Cables - https://doublehelixcables.com/product/eidolic-2-5mm-4-pole-female-jack-for-astell-kern/
Norne Audio used to have them as well, but it looks like they're not currently stocking them.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jan 9, 2018)

DBaldock9 said:


> ...
> There's a bit of a language issue, and I haven't received a clear answer about whether they will ship one lot of each "Tuning Cotton" thickness (Y1, Y2, Y3, Y4, Y5, & Y6), if six lots are ordered.



Hi, I'm also having some language issues with them.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Y2Y...eaker-unit-complex-for-mx500/32809374899.html

I asked if they would send me 6pcs Y1 + 6pcs Y2 + 6pcs Y3 + 2pcs Y4, for a total of 20 pieces, 1 lot.
Could you please confirm if the advertised "20 pieces/lot" are 10 pairs of tuning cotton?

Maybe I need to make it simple and ask only 2 thickness, for example 10 pcs of Y1 and 10 pcs of Y2.
What thickness do you recommend?

TIA


----------



## Niqeres

voxdub said:


> Has anyone tried the Aiyima 16ohm drivers? They cost approx. $8 for 10 pairs on AE, totally blown away for the price, lovely high end extension and bass is present.


Are you talking about these? Do they fit the standard mx500 shells?


----------



## voxdub

Niqeres said:


> Are you talking about these? Do they fit the standard mx500 shells?


Yes they fit standard mx500 shells


----------



## Niqeres

voxdub said:


> Yes they fit standard mx500 shells


Thanks a lot


----------



## Molarmass

Hi, I'm not sure if this this the right topic to post this but I was wondering if anyone here would be up for the challenge of fixing my Sony left xba Z5 as I've damaged the mmcx connector attached to the earpiece and Sony has discontinued it. Please pm me if you're willing to try.


----------



## DBaldock9

Merlin-PT said:


> Hi, I'm also having some language issues with them.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Y2Y...eaker-unit-complex-for-mx500/32809374899.html
> 
> I asked if they would send me 6pcs Y1 + 6pcs Y2 + 6pcs Y3 + 2pcs Y4, for a total of 20 pieces, 1 lot.
> ...



When I placed my order, I asked for 6 lots, 1 each of Y1 - Y6, but I only received 5 lots (Y2 - Y6).
So, I inquired about whether they could send the Y1, or a refund for the one lot.
Back on 11-AUG-17, they replied, saying that they were going to ship the Y1.
I never did receive the lot of Y1 from Yuming Store, or a refund.

One thing to NOTE: If you look at the title of the web link, you'll see it only lists Y2, Y3, Y4, Y5, & Y6.


----------



## Niqeres

DBaldock9 said:


> I've finished the Red & Blue sets of Earbuds that a co-worker is buying for her sons.  I'm including small cases, and some full & donut foams.
> 
> These were assembled with the "Bass" drivers, in the modified MX500 shells, using the foam "Tuning Cotton" (haven't yet received the white fabric tuning cotton), along with a bit of long-fiber acoustic stuffing in the housings.
> 
> Using the frequency sweeps on AudioCheck.net, they have good Bass (starting at 20Hz), and fairly smooth response up to where my hearing drops off (13 - 14KHz).


Where did you get the red and blue wires forming the cables? They look pretty neat.


----------



## DBaldock9

Niqeres said:


> Where did you get the red and blue wires forming the cables? They look pretty neat.



Puland Electron Store, on AliExpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/28A...rature-Tinned-copper-UL-VW-1/32429281418.html


----------



## Niqeres

DBaldock9 said:


> Puland Electron Store, on AliExpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/28A...rature-Tinned-copper-UL-VW-1/32429281418.html


Thanks!


----------



## headphones1999

good info thanks


----------



## headphones1999




----------



## thebentern (Feb 13, 2018)

What are the most neutral drivers you guys have had experience with using in DIY buds for MX500 or PK1 type shells? Anything noteworthy of comparison with any high end buds? I'm slowly building up a spreadsheet of DIY parts I've found on AliExpress and many I've found through this thread.


----------



## thebentern

I had an interesting idea yesterday, probably a terrible one, but I'm willing to try it because I like to tinker... I think it would be interesting to make a somewhat modular bud. So my idea would be to solder the wires of the cable into a male connector (possibly Micro JST 1.25mm 2-Pin if it fits) inside the shell, and then solder some drivers with the female connector with maybe little length of litz wire or other wire of choice so that theoretically one could fairly easily swap out the drivers on say a pair of MX500 shells while retaining the same cable and shell. Could I be onto something or have the solder fumes gotten to me?


----------



## vladstef

thebentern said:


> I had an interesting idea yesterday, probably a terrible one, but I'm willing to try it because I like to tinker... I think it would be interesting to make a somewhat modular bud. So my idea would be to solder the wires of the cable into a male connector (possibly Micro JST 1.25mm 2-Pin if it fits) inside the shell, and then solder some drivers with the female connector with maybe little length of litz wire or other wire of choice so that theoretically one could fairly easily swap out the drivers on say a pair of MX500 shells while retaining the same cable and shell. Could I be onto something or have the solder fumes gotten to me?



It could work buy I don't see a practical use for it. MX shells actually have different foams on the vent holes and just swapping drivers might not be optimal as it would change the tuning. There would also be and issue of slowly wearing out the plastic parts after many driver removals and it's questionable whether you could fit the connectors inside the shells. Also, you can get Vidos for around 2$ on Ali - might be more worth it just making as many pairs as you'd need using these shells.
This is just an opinion, perhaps I am completely wrong and anyone is welcome to correct me in that case.


----------



## thebentern

vladstef said:


> It could work buy I don't see a practical use for it. MX shells actually have different foams on the vent holes and just swapping drivers might not be optimal as it would change the tuning. There would also be and issue of slowly wearing out the plastic parts after many driver removals and it's questionable whether you could fit the connectors inside the shells. Also, you can get Vidos for around 2$ on Ali - might be more worth it just making as many pairs as you'd need using these shells.
> This is just an opinion, perhaps I am completely wrong and anyone is welcome to correct me in that case.


No I think you are correct. Particularly with how cheap the MX shells are, it would be easier to just make more buds.


----------



## silverfishla

thebentern said:


> What are the most neutral drivers you guys have had experience with using in DIY buds for MX500 or PK1 type shells? Anything noteworthy of comparison with any high end buds? I'm slowly building up a spreadsheet of DIY parts I've found on AliExpress and many I've found through this thread.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/14-...32497407437.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.TZ8tbW
These drivers are very decent.  They will fit in an MX500 shell if you remove the drivers from their housing.  They will not fit in a PK shell as they are a bit fat for those.  I just superglued them to the top of an MX shell (with the tuning foams still in them) for testing and they have sounded so decent that I just left them that way.  I actually ordered another pair to try to "fine" tune them to make them even better if I can.  They sent me 3 drivers instead of 2, so I know that they can be removed from their shell (I had to destroy the original shell) and be placed inside an MX driver housing and fitted back on to the MX unit.  These are clear sounding, warm and upfront, and have good bass.  Organic sounding.  Good all rounder.


----------



## Niqeres

voxdub said:


> Has anyone tried the Aiyima 16ohm drivers? They cost approx. $8 for 10 pairs on AE, totally blown away for the price, lovely high end extension and bass is present.


Assembled a pair of earbuds with these a while back. They're the closest earbuds to an iem that i have tried so far. Rumbling sub-bass, punchy mid bass and nice, warm mids. It also comes with a pretty lousy soundstage, with meh seperation and basically no depth.


----------



## thebentern

Niqeres said:


> Assembled a pair of earbuds with these a while back. They're the closest earbuds to an iem that i have tried so far. Rumbling sub-bass, punchy mid bass and nice, warm mids. It also comes with a pretty lousy soundstage, with meh seperation and basically no depth.


For that price though, I think the Aiyima drivers will be a good set for basic projects and experimenting to with tuning and such, since there are so many for that cheap.


----------



## calico88

I'm looking for a driver with 120db sensitivity at least on aliexpress, does anyone seen one ?
or who sells it ?


----------



## thebentern

I've been wanting to try this one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...32789332861.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.cJwp1o

Not a whole lot of feedback on it, but most of are going to be gamble anyway.


----------



## LukeVivolo

Hello. Does anyone have experience re-cabling zen v1s? I have an opportunity to buy a broken pair and I was wondering if there is anything I should know before trying to re-cable them. I have some experience soldering. Also, does anyone know where I could get some high quality materials for making cables, or where to buy pre-made cables? Thanks!


----------



## Niqeres

LukeVivolo said:


> Hello. Does anyone have experience re-cabling zen v1s? I have an opportunity to buy a broken pair and I was wondering if there is anything I should know before trying to re-cable them. I have some experience soldering. Also, does anyone know where I could get some high quality materials for making cables, or where to buy pre-made cables? Thanks!


If the zenv1 housings are glued exactly the same way as the monk plus, Opening them up should be possible with sheer force, but extremely difficult. I would never dare heat up the front cover with a hair dryer/heat gun because the heat might warp the front cover.


----------



## thebentern

Here is a photo of the rare double left buds in white MX500 shells.

Wire - $3.99: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...32678414255.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.UBM98w
Drivers - $0.80 a pair: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AIY...32830223301.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.UBM98w
Shells - $1.52 a pair: 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY.../2033192719.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.UBM98w
Total: $6.31 Not bad for fun DIY buds.






PSA: Pay attention. Don't drink and solder.


----------



## Yobster69

thebentern said:


> Here is a photo of the rare double left buds in white MX500 shells.
> 
> Wire - $3.99: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...32678414255.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.UBM98w
> Drivers - $0.80 a pair: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AIY...32830223301.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.UBM98w
> ...


Nice. And what do they sound like? Have you played around with the tuning foams at all?


----------



## thebentern

Yobster69 said:


> Nice. And what do they sound like? Have you played around with the tuning foams at all?



Haven't messed with the tuning foams yet. The shells came with some, and the drivers had a ring already installed. 
Sound impressions: Fairly bass heavy... in a way that sounds muddy to me. They have a lack of clarity compared to my Seahf AWK-F32T, probably close to the clarity level of my Monk Plus. I do want to see if I can get some more detail out of them and tone down the bass by tweaking with the tuning foams. It may be a limitation of the drivers themselves though, but hey, there are super cheap.


----------



## Yobster69

thebentern said:


> Haven't messed with the tuning foams yet. The shells came with some, and the drivers had a ring already installed.
> Sound impressions: Fairly bass heavy... in a way that sounds muddy to me. They have a lack of clarity compared to my Seahf AWK-F32T, probably close to the clarity level of my Monk Plus. I do want to see if I can get some more detail out of them and tone down the bass by tweaking with the tuning foams. It may be a limitation of the drivers themselves though, but hey, there are super cheap.


It’ll be fun trying. 
If you left both the driver and case foams on then that’s more than likely the issue, but taking one or the other off and then wanting to put it back to try the other way round poses it’s own issue of re glueing it. Do you know what adhesive they use?


----------



## thebentern

Yobster69 said:


> It’ll be fun trying.
> If you left both the driver and case foams on then that’s more than likely the issue, but taking one or the other off and then wanting to put it back to try the other way round poses it’s own issue of re glueing it. Do you know what adhesive they use?


Since the drivers come in a 10 pack. I have a few to experiment with.  Not sure about the adhesives used on the foam attached to the driver. The foams that came with the shells appear to be attached to a self-adhesive strip underneath.


----------



## Niqeres

thebentern said:


> Haven't messed with the tuning foams yet. The shells came with some, and the drivers had a ring already installed.
> Sound impressions: Fairly bass heavy... in a way that sounds muddy to me. They have a lack of clarity compared to my Seahf AWK-F32T, probably close to the clarity level of my Monk Plus. I do want to see if I can get some more detail out of them and tone down the bass by tweaking with the tuning foams. It may be a limitation of the drivers themselves though, but hey, there are super cheap.


Adding generic black tuning foams onto the shells, or stuffing it with cotton will improve clarity


----------



## Yobster69

thebentern said:


> Since the drivers come in a 10 pack. I have a few to experiment with.  Not sure about the adhesives used on the foam attached to the driver. The foams that came with the shells appear to be attached to a self-adhesive strip underneath.


I’d be tempted to remove all the foams and see what the base sound is like. I bet it’s  better than you think, as although they are cheap those drivers do not look bad. Then experiment with foam combinations. I’ve been thinking, and photomount spray might just be a good solution, removable would be fine. 
Different foams (thickness and density) are available on AliEx, but if you have a nice sharp scalpel then you can also modify the ones you have.... time consuming but you might just come up with a diamond in the rough, tuned to your liking. 
I’ve got the combination in my basket now ready to order, I’m jealous you already have them to play with. 
Good luck. And report back if you can as I’d love to hear what you find.


----------



## thehypewan

Hey yall,

I wanted to share my latest achievement:

2ft (Canare L-4E5C) cable. I designed it for this Bluetooth dac/amp in mind (FiiO BTR1) for running but it can plug into any 3.5mm jack.

Transplanted Shozy Cygnus drivers into PK2 shells I ordered from China. I also retrofitted MMCX connectors to make them removable. This way I can put them on longer cables at anytime.











Thanks for viewing!


----------



## theoutsider

thebentern said:


> PSA: Pay attention. Don't drink and solder.


What an advice


----------



## thebentern

thehypewan said:


> Transplanted Shozy Cygnus drivers into PK2 shells I ordered from China. I also retrofitted MMCX connectors to make them removable. This way I can put them on longer cables at anytime.



Great work! I've been wanting to modify some MX500 buds with an MMCX connectors. Where did you source yours?


----------



## DBaldock9

thebentern said:


> Great work! I've been wanting to modify some MX500 buds with an MMCX connectors. Where did you source yours?



I've purchased some of these MMCX jacks, but haven't tried installing them in any earbud shells yet - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Uni...ure-copper-gold-plated-don-t/32797640235.html


----------



## thehypewan

thebentern said:


> Great work! I've been wanting to modify some MX500 buds with an MMCX connectors. Where did you source yours?



@DBaldock9 that is the same design, but I found mine a little cheaper: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/fre...-copper-gold-plated-built-in/32840791026.html

I paired it with these male connectors: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/6pc...der-post-Straight-Goldplated/32636015257.html

I note I took for future projects is the male connectors are bare so aesthetically there isn't anything giving it a clean, finished look; I just used heatshrink around it.


----------



## thehypewan

I'm finding the Canare cables to be quite stiff and moves the earbuds around a lot.  Any tip on softening these cables?  

They also exhibit a lot of microphonics; it doesn't bother me, but it is something I noticed.


----------



## dheepak10

Any idea where I can find Edifier H180 shells and drivers for DIY mod. Thanks!


----------



## chaiyuta

For soft cable, I ever asked Rholupat, he said he could sell his VJC custom cable which is very low microphonics and soft flexibility (from what he said), or you might look at DIY TOXIC cable.

For Edifier H180, there are no H180 shell or driver sold as DIY parts. You need to buy a new one for it. You could find many sellers in Aliexpress. If you are interested H180 Modded version, Rholupat 'BEJO' might be your choice.


----------



## gslashg

Subscribed to this thread.

Been passively researching about how to DIY earbuds and stuff. I have a bit of experience in soldering and generally tinkering around with tiny speakers a while back. I'm more interested in the tuning of DIY earbud speaker units. Is there an ultimate guide somewhere or is this a trade secret? =)

I'm hoping to learn more in this thread. Also, currently back reading posts.


----------



## chaiyuta

My suggestion for the DIY starter is to play on re-solder with many soldering wire brands first. Try with cheap-price earbuds and figure out whether you hear SQ difference or not.


----------



## capnjack

dheepak10 said:


> Any idea where I can find Edifier H180 shells and drivers for DIY mod. Thanks!


They’re retailing at £7.99 on Amazon in UK or AliExpress store


----------



## gslashg

chaiyuta said:


> My suggestion for the DIY starter is to play on re-solder with many soldering wire brands first. Try with cheap-price earbuds and figure out whether you hear SQ difference or not.




Yep, exactly what I had in mind. Ordered a couple of Vidos and EMX500s. I'll try to tinker on them as soon as they get on my doorsteps.

Any idea/suggestions on how to retune the speaker driver units?


----------



## chaiyuta

Buy Soldering wire as many brand as possible. Mundorf Supreme SilverGold, Viablue, Oyaide, Wonder, Cardass, etc. Another retuning is changing damping filter.


----------



## gslashg

chaiyuta said:


> Buy Soldering wire as many brand as possible. Mundorf Supreme SilverGold, Viablue, Oyaide, Wonder, Cardass, etc. Another retuning is changing damping filter.



Oh okay, wow I didn't know soldering wire would make a difference. I'll start researching on those brands.

Yes, I'll order some damping filters and try to experiment on those also. I've seen different kinds of damping filters, some like horse shoe shape, some are tiny circles to put on speaker holes and cotton. How will these different kinds of damping filters affect the sound?


----------



## chaiyuta

Sorry, I have not much experience on damping filter. I ever buy metal filter to repair my Kinera Buds. Normally the thicker filter the more bass quantity.


----------



## silverfishla

I have a question (since this all about DIY)...there are a lot of earbud makers coming out of Indonesia and the like.  What drivers are they sourcing for their bud builds?  I can’t imagine that they are thumbing through Ali and trying out all those untested options (like us HaHa).  Do you think they are cannibalizing other earbuds and retuning them to their own shells?  It seems the most logical answer to me, but it wouldn’t know.  I don’t think that’s necessarily wrong or anything.


----------



## chaiyuta

In my country, there are some DIY earbuds that are self-assembly by hand. For instance, Boutiquebuds and the another notable one called 'Miracle' earbuds. In indonesia, I guess Eli Audio might make OEM custom-order from the factory somewhere. Equinox in Rholupat is quite mystery and interesting. Any DIY earbuds maker who never give any info about how they make or source their drivers, I guess they just get instant drivers from Aliexpress, Taobao, etc.


----------



## silverfishla

chaiyuta said:


> In my country, there are some DIY earbuds that are self-assembly by hand. For instance, Boutiquebuds and the another notable one called 'Miracle' earbuds. In indonesia, I guess Eli Audio might make OEM custom-order from the factory somewhere. Equinox in Rholupat is quite mystery and interesting. Any DIY earbuds maker who never give any info about how they make or source their drivers, I guess they just get instant drivers from Aliexpress, Taobao, etc.


If builders are sourcing drivers from Ali, the question becomes, of course, which ones?


----------



## chaiyuta

That's why they have never provided info cause this is their business secret otherwise many people will go to buy the same instant driver.


----------



## gslashg

There are some that's really trying to redesign earbuds like Ryo of Uairekko Custom Earbuds. I wonder how this sounds. I looks like it has 2 drivers stacked into one housing. Much like the Rose Masya or Mojito design with awesome custom artwork.


----------



## thehypewan

This buying and re-selling reminds me of the time I stayed at a nice local hotel in Ho Chi Minh City.  I would order breakfast via room service, stand in the balcony and watch two workers strap up and take a moped out to somewhere and return a few minutes later with some take-out containers.  5 minutes later they knock at my door with delicious Vietnamese food all plated nicely and steaming hot.  By the way, this hotel did not have not a kitchen.


----------



## chaiyuta

Uairekko take effort on housing very much. I likes how he makes custom painting. Though about the new housing, I don't think there are dual dynamic drivers inside. Is it true??


----------



## gslashg

chaiyuta said:


> Uairekko take effort on housing very much. I likes how he makes custom painting. Though about the new housing, I don't think there are dual dynamic drivers inside. Is it true??



Oh I can't confirm that for sure. Haven't got the chance to ask him about that. It was just my speculations. It'd be cool if it does though.


----------



## silverfishla

chaiyuta said:


> That's why they have never provided info cause this is their business secret otherwise many people will go to buy the same instant driver.


Yes that's true.  BUT WE are the DIYers and it's up to us to unravel the mysteries that lie therein.  We're not here to make money, we're here to demystify...deconstruct...break a few things.  Most of all, share our knowledge that is unencumbered by grubby little greedy fingers (commerce that is).  For the fun of it.


----------



## chaiyuta

Everything you think has cost. First you have to buy the DIY earbuds one that you are curious . Open it up with your own risk (you might unintentionally break components of driver). Buy many instant drivers or some notable-brand earbuds (Aliexpress sell very little comparing to Taobao) and open it up too. Compare your curious one and other drivers you own. Finally take photos and reveal it. It will cost you a lot not only money but also you are going to make opponents cause you are going to ruin those DIY brands. I will appreciate very much if you will do this process.

AFAIK, Shozy BK utilizes as a same driver as Docomo earbuds. You might have fun and challenge yourself to make better tuning than Shozy BK.


----------



## gslashg

chaiyuta said:


> Everything you think has cost. First you have to buy the DIY earbuds one that you are curious . Open it up with your own risk (you might unintentionally break components of driver). Buy many instant drivers or some notable-brand earbuds (Aliexpress sell very little comparing to Taobao) and open it up too. Compare your curious one and other drivers you own. Finally take photos and reveal it. It will cost you a lot not only money but also you are going to make opponents cause you are going to ruin those DIY brands. I will appreciate very much if you will do this process.
> 
> AFAIK, Shozy BK utilizes as a same driver as Docomo earbuds. You might have fun and challenge yourself to make better tuning than Shozy BK.



That's interesting. I was about to order the DQSM and PK2 Docomo from Nicehck. I'm planning to recable them and experiment on the tuning cottons.


----------



## chaiyuta

Good! Any question is welcome as long as I have some knowledge or info to support your DIY earbuds. Though, I have zero hand-skill. I always bring my earbuds and parts to handful DIY guy/store do it. Soldering is one of important points. You need to use the lowest optimal tempterature and the shortest time to achieve the best soldering without leaving any black-burn spot as the best result.


----------



## gslashg

chaiyuta said:


> Good! Any question is welcome as long as I have some knowledge or info to support your DIY earbuds. Though, I have zero hand-skill. I always bring my earbuds and parts to handful DIY guy/store do it. Soldering is one of important points. You need to use the lowest optimal tempterature and the shortest time to achieve the best soldering without leaving any black-burn spot as the best result.



I have yet to master my soldering skills. Had so much time back in college soldering electric guitar stuff from guitar effects to guitar hardwares. Still learning or trying to until now.


----------



## Niqeres (Apr 25, 2018)




----------



## Niqeres (Apr 25, 2018)

Niqeres said:


> So far liking the ones in the middle. "Grey 150ohms unit" from taobao.
> The others arent too special.


----------



## gslashg

How does it sound?


----------



## Niqeres

gslashg said:


> How does it sound?


Deepest sub bass I've heard in my diy and budget collection. Warm, slightly recessed mids and relaxed highs. Really nice staging.


----------



## silverfishla

Has anyone found any good braidable (not stiff) earphone wire on Ali?  There's so much wire, it would be nice if you might share, if you've found some.  Only criteria is good sounding and braidable.  I've bought some wire off of ebay, good sounding (milspec copper and silver plated copper) but too stiff (for my tastes) for earbuds.  Links would be great.  Thanks.


----------



## DBaldock9

silverfishla said:


> Has anyone found any good braidable (not stiff) earphone wire on Ali?  There's so much wire, it would be nice if you might share, if you've found some.  Only criteria is good sounding and braidable.  I've bought some wire off of ebay, good sounding (milspec copper and silver plated copper) but too stiff (for my tastes) for earbuds.  Links would be great.  Thanks.



I've used this 28-AWG Silicone insulated wire, and it's quite flexible.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/28A...32429281418.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.6dKPpc
2 strands will fit easily in a MX500 shell, but you'll probably have to bore out the wire channel in a MX760 shell.


----------



## chaiyuta

I do recommend DIY cable from Toxic and Norne, or Oyaide Japan store If you could buy it direct.


----------



## handwander

Anyone know of a shell that could be used for something as thing / flat as this?


----------



## cathee

Can anyone link me to a tutorial on re-soldering earbuds? TIA.


----------



## jamonbread

gwompki said:


> Recabled the earbuds that came with the Agptek M20. I love these things. Anyone know where to get more without buying another player?



How do these AGPTek's compare to the Monk +'s


----------



## dhruvmeena96

One heck of a mod, which can make IEM a monstrous thing.

You need a MU metal tape

Open your earbud....tape everything with this tape but keep all the vents open at the back..

Open up the front plastic part which cover the diaphragm and tape the inside and poke holes for audio to pass through.

You have shielded all the magnetic force for the earbud and this will increase total flux acting toward the coil....

Increasing sensitivity and bass response...

VE monk turned into Zen without ohm increase(lol, I did not do that..)

But theoretically you can turn your earbud more sensitive to signal and better tuned....with the annoying repulsive force gone...

It also dampens the harmful magnetic waves also..
Try it..

I am also going to try on VE monk +


----------



## silverfishla

dhruvmeena96 said:


> One heck of a mod, which can make IEM a monstrous thing.
> 
> You need a MU metal tape
> 
> ...


But...does it work?  Let us know, show us some pics please.  I'll give it whirl, just for kicks.


----------



## fairx

Anybody ordered 300 ohms driver? I want to try make cheap 300 ohms and experiment. Seems that 300 ohms are quite generic but widely used.


----------



## Niqeres (Jun 28, 2018)

fairx said:


> Anybody ordered 300 ohms driver? I want to try make cheap 300 ohms and experiment. Seems that 300 ohms are quite generic but widely used.


I ordered two different types from a seller on taobao. One sounds neutral/bright, the other is warm. Have not gotten any recent mainstream popular earbuds such as the willsounds, emx500 or the dozens of FAAEL's out there, but i do have the vido's, graphenes and a butt load of other diy drivers to compare them to.

Edit: The warmer 300ohm pair is my current daily driver. They're the ones with the white front cover.


----------



## fairx (Jun 29, 2018)

Bro. How much did you pay for those? I look into AE last right and the price for 300 ohm quite high. Even more than few ready made earbud like k's 300


----------



## Niqeres

fairx said:


> Bro. How much did you pay for those? I look into AE last right and the price for 300 ohm quite high. Even more than few ready made earbud like k's 300


About 30 ringgits per pair excl shipping.


----------



## 498107

Hello guys! I was seeing on Aliexpress which has a diy pk1 earbud models for a very low price. You recommend buying these diy models, the price of them is very low, but I am left with the doubt if they are really original
Sorry for my bad English kkkk


----------



## Niqeres

Hardphone said:


> Hello guys! I was seeing on Aliexpress which has a diy pk1 earbud models for a very low price. You recommend buying these diy models, the price of them is very low, but I am left with the doubt if they are really original
> Sorry for my bad English kkkk


They are not original. Can't comment on the sound though, I do not own any, except for a few 14.8mm drivers,


----------



## 498107 (Jul 1, 2018)

which parts do you recommend for me to mount a pk1 diy?


----------



## knudsen

Considering one of these cables; 

4 cores
6 cores
8 cores 

Would anyone know how many of these "cores" can comfortably enter mx500 shell? I feel 8 is too much... 

As far as I can see 4 cores must mean 1 wire up/1return per side, 8 cores 2up/2return per side, and 6 is maybe 2up/1return per side


----------



## fairx

@knudsen
 Idk about what they mean by core but I believe all of them will fit nicely into mx500 shell . I believe the core are the wire inside the cable sheath. Someone should correct me if I'm wrong

@Niqeres could you help me with link to the driver you bought . I only found the pricier ones .


----------



## DBaldock9

I've been on the lookout for bulk Copper Litz cable.
Found a shop on eBay, that has a lot of different configurations (# strands / AWG) - but they're mainly marketing it for making High Q Coils for Amateur Radio & Crystal Radio.

I believe that this particular cable is small enough (0.66mm OD), that 4 strands would fit into an earbud shell, allowing for an 8-strand braided cable to be assembled - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Litz-Wire-...Q-Coil-for-Amateur-Crystal-Radio/152965779451


----------



## Merlin-PT (Aug 17, 2018)

Earbud drivers photo gallery from @maxifuny:
http://ixbt.photo/?id=album:58364&page=1

Thanks @maxifuny for sharing your earbud drivers photos.


----------



## Tusca99 (Aug 18, 2018)

Hello guys, I'm willing to build my first diy earbud. I can see how to make the cable (looking for a 4 core for now).
However I really need help on the driver choice and the housing. I am relying on any advices for an all around driver.
I was thinking about an open housing to emphasize soundstage.

Lastly I was thinking of 3d modelling for the housing realization. Does anyone have experiences on this (materials and techniques)?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## seanc6441

Tusca99 said:


> Hello guys, I'm willing to build my first diy earbud. I can see how to make the cable (looking for a 4 core for now).
> However I really need help on the driver choice and the housing. I am relying on any advices for an all around driver.
> I was thinking about an open housing to emphasize soundstage.
> 
> ...


Truely open back will be difficult as most earbuds are tuned to work with a semi open back design.




 

That's my favorite shell design of all I've used. It's similar in size to a PK shell, very comfortable and has a good cavity size. Also I feel that fully open or mostly open front grilles are superior to that of the mx500 which only vents around the edge. I feel the metal grilles that open the sides and the middle for example give a more balanced sound positioning and respond better to foam changes.


----------



## seanc6441

Does anyone have a link on aliexpress to various back vent foam filters? Looking to replace some on my pk shell earbud that has degraded over time. Thank you


----------



## golov17

https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=567283967614


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=567283967614


If only it was available on aliexpress ((


----------



## seanc6441

@golov17 
Which drivers fit these shells? Docomo, mx500 type or other? I see 14.8mm in the description but not sure what standard that is. Would you know? Thx


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> @golov17
> Which drivers fit these shells? Docomo, mx500 type or other? I see 14.8mm in the description but not sure what standard that is. Would you know? Thx



You can look for 14.8 mm drivers on aliexpress since there are lots of them. But it should fit mx500 since its 14.8 iirc. If you want to buy that shell let me know, maybe we can do a group buy


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> You can look for 14.8 mm drivers on aliexpress since there are lots of them. But it should fit mx500 since its 14.8 iirc. If you want to buy that shell let me know, maybe we can do a group buy


I searched 14.8mm driver and it seems to be pk drivers listed on aliexpress, im very interested in a group buy yes, or whatever way i can get them to EU 

These are lovely looking shells like the liebesleid, i wanna try some pk drivers in them!

Anyone who can get them to me (ill pay obviously) will get a free earbud out of it when I make them into functioning earbuds.

Or alternatively a group buy can work if anyone has the means to get them into EU.


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> I searched 14.8mm driver and it seems to be pk drivers listed on aliexpress, im very interested in a group buy yes, or whatever way i can get them to EU
> 
> These are lovely looking shells like the liebesleid, i wanna try some pk drivers in them!
> 
> ...



I'll order them tomorrow. How many pairs do you want?


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> @golov17
> Which drivers fit these shells? Docomo, mx500 type or other? I see 14.8mm in the description but not sure what standard that is. Would you know? Thx


Docomo, pk, ebx, etc


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> I'll order them tomorrow. How many pairs do you want?


Oh nice didn't realise you could do it yourself, ill take 5 pairs!

I'll be trying the new 16ohm SR driver recommend by jogawag in it, i have a spare cygnus driver which ill try too.

Thx mate!

Actually before you pull the trigger let me quickly search something on taobao i was interested in that you can include in the order (back vent foam filters).


golov17 said:


> Docomo, pk, ebx, etc


Much appreciated. Definitely gonna try these out


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Oh nice didn't realise you could do it yourself, ill take 5 pairs!
> 
> I'll be trying the new 16ohm SR driver recommend by jogawag in it, i have a spare cygnus driver which ill try too.
> 
> ...



I will message the supplier first, see about a price reduction and such and if they accept paypal. Else its a bit risky to order with a credit card. I'll let you know tomorrow

Also they dont seem to have back vents but if you mean tuning foams for the driver, they are available on aliexpress as well


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> I will message the supplier first, see about a price reduction and such and if they accept paypal. Else its a bit risky to order with a credit card. I'll let you know tomorrow
> 
> Also they dont seem to have back vents but if you mean tuning foams for the driver, they are available on aliexpress as well


Yeah i mean the tuning foam for the back of pk shells (not the 'horse shoe' shape ring for mx500 venting. It's just a small square of tuning foam with sticky tape on one side to attach to the inner shell vent.


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Yeah i mean the tuning foam for the back of pk shells (not the 'horse shoe' shape ring for mx500 venting. It's just a small square of tuning foam with sticky tape on one side to attach to the inner shell vent.



It should be on aliexpress, if not you can improvise


----------



## fairx (Aug 26, 2018)

Does those shoe horse tuning foam actually have different densities at all? People say tune all the time on FB pages but does it really?

 I ordered some white foam said to be used with common earbud driver. It does change the sound of my ty32. But it's obvious because different color and material from normal foams that pre-applied.

Anybody experiment with more seller on Aliexpress?


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 26, 2018)

fairx said:


> Does those shoe horse tuning foam actually have different densities at all? People say tune all the time on FB pages but does it really?
> 
> I ordered some white foam said to be used with common earbud driver. It does change the sound of my ty32. But it's obvious because different color and material from normal foams that pre-applied.
> 
> Anybody experiment with more seller on Aliexpress?


Yes there are different thickness and density and yes they drastically change the sound presentation in different ways.

The foam on my shozy bk has deteriorated and thus I  started modding it, currently going with some cloth + paper filter and very sparse tunning cotton to fill the cavity to increase the soundstage. Excellent results so far removing all the low mid bloat making them sound more neutral and with a more spacious airy soundstage.




Yes I was worried to mod the BK but at the end if the day curiousity got to me. It's easily reversable if i buy new tuning foam of standard density.

 

Easy to spot


----------



## Lothar101

seanc6441 said:


> Yes there are different thickness and density and yes they drastically change the sound presentation in different ways.
> 
> The foam on my shozy bk has deteriorated and thus I  started modding it, currently going with some cloth + paper filter and very sparse tunning cotton to fill the cavity to increase the soundstage. Excellent results so far removing all the low mid bloat making them sound more neutral and with a more spacious airy soundstage.
> 
> ...


Some stores on AliExpress call it tuning cotton as well.


----------



## endia

seanc6441 said:


> Yes there are different thickness and density and yes they drastically change the sound presentation in different ways.
> 
> The foam on my shozy bk has deteriorated and thus I  started modding it, currently going with some cloth + paper filter and very sparse tunning cotton to fill the cavity to increase the soundstage. Excellent results so far removing all the low mid bloat making them sound more neutral and with a more spacious airy soundstage.
> 
> ...



Sean, i believe you're looking for these;

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.3.64063ebca6QMQC

but needs confirmation if they are adhesive or not..


----------



## seanc6441

endia said:


> Sean, i believe you're looking for these;
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.3.64063ebca6QMQC
> 
> but needs confirmation if they are adhesive or not..


Ty that looks like it, can be just to size and i have my owm double sided adhesive anyway. Again thx!


----------



## Tusca99

seanc6441 said:


> Truely open back will be difficult as most earbuds are tuned to work with a semi open back design.
> 
> 
> 
> That's my favorite shell design of all I've used. It's similar in size to a PK shell, very comfortable and has a good cavity size. Also I feel that fully open or mostly open front grilles are superior to that of the mx500 which only vents around the edge. I feel the metal grilles that open the sides and the middle for example give a more balanced sound positioning and respond better to foam changes.



Thanks a lot, do you have any link or info of that shell? I like it more over the yuin pk2 shell. And any driver I could attach to it that you recommend?


----------



## activatorfly

Anyone with any tips regarding opening glued earbud housings? (with minimum damage obvs!)


----------



## DBaldock9

Some people use a concentrated (focused) hot air gun - but you need to be careful not to get the plastic diaphragm of the drivers too hot.


----------



## activatorfly

DBaldock9 said:


> Some people use a concentrated (focused) hot air gun - but you need to be careful not to get the plastic diaphragm of the drivers too hot.


Yes I think that method may be too risky...I tried using rubbing alcohol on a cheaper pair - with no joy. Been watching a You Tube video where n-hexane is used as a solvent to open the shells - however, apparently it's uber strong! So great care is needed when applying, in order to avoid dissolving the glue that attaches the membrane to the coil anchor.....


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Oh nice didn't realise you could do it yourself, ill take 5 pairs!
> 
> I'll be trying the new 16ohm SR driver recommend by jogawag in it, i have a spare cygnus driver which ill try too.
> 
> ...



They dont ship out of china sadly :/ but I will try to think of a solution


----------



## Niqeres

activatorfly said:


> Anyone with any tips regarding opening glued earbud housings? (with minimum damage obvs!)


I used the "bladed" section of my wire strippers to pry out the drivers. Will scratch the plastic driver covers if you're not careful. If you're not careful with a heat gun you'll risk warping the plastic of the earbud shell, damaging or making it uncomfortable to wear. Front covers are extremely difficult to replace once it's warped.


----------



## Niqeres

DAndrew said:


> They dont ship out of china sadly :/ but I will try to think of a solution


They do ship out of china.  Costs are 100ish RMB to NA, not sure if it's available at EU though.


----------



## activatorfly

Niqeres said:


> I used the "bladed" section of my wire strippers to pry out the drivers. Will scratch the plastic driver covers if you're not careful. If you're not careful with a heat gun you'll risk warping the plastic of the earbud shell, damaging or making it uncomfortable to wear. Front covers are extremely difficult to replace once it's warped.


Thanks, I think I'll put the upgrade on hold for now (until I can find a way to avoid damage) - as the buds I was considering re-cabling are my cherished CampFred 1's!


----------



## seanc6441

Tusca99 said:


> Thanks a lot, do you have any link or info of that shell? I like it more over the yuin pk2 shell. And any driver I could attach to it that you recommend?





Tusca99 said:


> Thanks a lot, do you have any link or info of that shell? I like it more over the yuin pk2 shell. And any driver I could attach to it that you recommend?


Sadly it's not pk drivers. I think it's for 14.5mm driver its my K's Ling earbud. If you want shell's for 14.8mm pk drivers type then the link Golov posted above is the one you want. It's the same design as the Moondrop Liebesleid.


----------



## DAndrew

Niqeres said:


> They do ship out of china.  Costs are 100ish RMB to NA, not sure if it's available at EU though.



Some stores dont sadly


----------



## Tusca99

seanc6441 said:


> Sadly it's not pk drivers. I think it's for 14.5mm driver its my K's Ling earbud. If you want shell's for 14.8mm pk drivers type then the link Golov posted above is the one you want. It's the same design as the Moondrop Liebesleid.



I really like that shell, but I can't find it on aliexpress, do you have a link that I can use? Otherwise I found this combination here:

15.4mm metal shell
https://it.aliexpress.com/item/15-4...462.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.4a5c2e0eb3iXKI

15.4mm driver
https://it.aliexpress.com/item/15-4...693.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.4a5c2e0eb3iXKI


----------



## seanc6441

Tusca99 said:


> I really like that shell, but I can't find it on aliexpress, do you have a link that I can use? Otherwise I found this combination here:
> 
> 15.4mm metal shell
> https://it.aliexpress.com/item/15-4...462.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.4a5c2e0eb3iXKI
> ...


Sorry this shell is for a TOTL earbud not sold separately but if you were to look for designs to influence a 3D printed shell I thought that one was the best I've used so far for comfort and use.

The shells on aliexpress are a bit basic. That's why I went with the one from taobao it looks much more impressive.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 28, 2018)

Tusca99 said:


> I really like that shell, but I can't find it on aliexpress, do you have a link that I can use? Otherwise I found this combination here:
> 
> 15.4mm metal shell
> https://it.aliexpress.com/item/15-4...462.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.4a5c2e0eb3iXKI
> ...


@DAndrew

I found some pretty awesome metal 15.4mm/mx500 driver shells on aliexpress for a expensive-ish price but sold in 20 (10 pairs) units at €104 (€5.20 per shell) i can try get the price down from the seller but would you be interested in a group buy?

Here's the shell









Is that awesome or what 

They resemble ourart ti7 shell design but smoother edges and you can apply different covers for a more conventional front shape (like metal mx500/mx760 grille).


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> @DAndrew
> 
> I found some pretty awesome metal 15.4mm/mx500 driver shells on aliexpress for a expensive-ish price but sold in 20 (10 pairs) units at €104 (€5.20 per shell) i can try get the price down from the seller but would you be interested in a group buy?
> 
> ...



They are nice indeed, very nice. But there is a problem with them. You cant really tune them as I cannot see any vents. So you would be at the mercy of how the driver performs :/


----------



## seanc6441

DAndrew said:


> They are nice indeed, very nice. But there is a problem with them. You cant really tune them as I cannot see any vents. So you would be at the mercy of how the driver performs :/


Hmm Yeah i mean id be tempted to drill them but idk what metal is used, might be hard... 

Silly of them not to include venting like in ourart ti7... :/


----------



## DAndrew

seanc6441 said:


> Hmm Yeah i mean id be tempted to drill them but idk what metal is used, might be hard...
> 
> Silly of them not to include venting like in ourart ti7... :/



I doubt you can drill them since it looks ( and probably is ) a brittle and cheap alloy


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> @DAndrew
> 
> I found some pretty awesome metal 15.4mm/mx500 driver shells on aliexpress for a expensive-ish price but sold in 20 (10 pairs) units at €104 (€5.20 per shell) i can try get the price down from the seller but would you be interested in a group buy?
> 
> ...


Any links?


----------



## kw8910

golov17 said:


> Any links?


http://s.aliexpress.com/AbUJV3Yr


----------



## golov17

Metal MX500 headphone shell 15.4mm for diy earphone headset 
http://s.aliexpress.com/Y3eI7Ffa 
(from AliExpress Android)


----------



## seanc6441

golov17 said:


> Metal MX500 headphone shell 15.4mm for diy earphone headset
> http://s.aliexpress.com/Y3eI7Ffa
> (from AliExpress Android)


The seller will give you a much better deal if you order say 5 pairs. Just message them if you decide to buy some


----------



## DBaldock9 (Dec 23, 2018)

I've created a simple plug & jack pin-out reference (PNG & PDF) -
.
*EDIT: Updated chart on 23-DEC-18
.
 *


----------



## Mallowpuff

This is probably a stupid question, and when someone says I shouldn't be trying to make my own earbuds, they are right.

But, what exactly is involved in making DIY earbuds? Parts, money, time wise.

I'm talking mid-range sound quality, nothing special, comfortable earbuds. I want something that sounds good, but doesn't break the bank. I am a college student. I am mostly in it for the experience.

I read through many pages but didn't find anything that really summarized it.

Also, not that I am doing it, but has anyone here made DIY Bluetooth earbuds?


----------



## DBaldock9

How much of this thread have you read?

I know that myself, and several others have posted photos of the earbuds we've assembled, along with links to the AliExpress vendors where we bought the parts (drivers, shells, damping material, wire, connectors).

For Bluetooth, if you use the MX500 sized shells, it's fairly easy to find MMCX jacks that will fit in the wire channel, so you can connect any BT w/MMCX lanyard.


----------



## Mallowpuff

DBaldock9 said:


> How much of this thread have you read?
> 
> I know that myself, and several others have posted photos of the earbuds we've assembled, along with links to the AliExpress vendors where we bought the parts (drivers, shells, damping material, wire, connectors).
> 
> For Bluetooth, if you use the MX500 sized shells, it's fairly easy to find MMCX jacks that will fit in the wire channel, so you can connect any BT w/MMCX lanyard.



Thanks for the info. I read what I thought was quite a bit, but didn't actually get to any complete builds. Almost all links I did find led to "Product not found" or Out of Stock.

I will go back through and look, thank you!


----------



## Niqeres

Mallowpuff said:


> This is probably a stupid question, and when someone says I shouldn't be trying to make my own earbuds, they are right.
> 
> But, what exactly is involved in making DIY earbuds? Parts, money, time wise.
> 
> ...


I am a college student myself, and i've been making my own earbuds over the past year and a half. Part of the draw for me is discovering what kinds of sounds you can create by pairing different drivers and tuning combinations. It's not about making the absolute best earbuds, but what you can get off the amount of materials you pay for. The process of learning, creating and finishing a cable/earbud is a very rewarding one, but the cost of tools/materials will add up if you decide to commit completely.
One tip to get cheaper parts is to shop directly off the international taobao site. It's almost always cheaper even after factoring total shipping/forwarding costs, as long as you purchase a haul enough for more than 2 earbuds. If you are not proficient in mandarin, there are guides online that teach you the step by step to order an item. Google translate works well enough, but you'll have to get used to different terminologies used to describe sound. Drivers translate to "trumpets" for example. I've sunk in hundreds of dollars into the hobby of making earbuds, and there is the case where i could have spent that money on better earphones instead, but eventually the hunger for something "better" would set in, and the previous earphone that i spent money on will just eventually be thrown into the pile of abandoned earphones.


----------



## Houseg1011

vapman said:


> Hehe. Its not very pretty. But it works great! This wire has a surprisingly bright tone for pure copper.
> 
> 
> 
> edit: The reason it is so bright despite being clear? almost a..... silver cable tone with bass?! the cable has a resistance of under 1.5 ohms!!!! I've never worked with headphone wire this low resistance. This will be very interesting.



may i ask for the link where you bought this


----------



## golov17

Houseg1011 said:


> may i ask for the link where you bought this


@vapman long ago left the forum


----------



## DBaldock9

golov17 said:


> @vapman long ago left the forum



Last post was 17-MAY-17, in one of the Headphone threads.


----------



## seanc6441

Mallowpuff said:


> Thanks for the info. I read what I thought was quite a bit, but didn't actually get to any complete builds. Almost all links I did find led to "Product not found" or Out of Stock.
> 
> I will go back through and look, thank you!


There's a diy earbud thread, but i haven't seen any complete guides.


----------



## kw8910

Before I start butchering my Monk Lite (or Qian 39 shell), what's the best way to open it up for recable? Does the driver come off like it does with PK or MX500 shells after applying some heat?


----------



## chaiyuta

Yesterday, I received my Monk Lite Special Mod by Cross Lambda Audio with his newly SPC starlight project cable together with CL's DIY parts . WooHoo~

1) Monk Lite Special Mod~



 



 

2) Monk+ Junkhosha (with re-soldering wire tuning) vs Monk Lite Special Mod


 

3) CL's Pure Copper Spiltter, Pure Copper Plug and Pure Copper Barrel / 2.5 mm OC Studio Plugs~


 

4) Under Developing PHRAKAR Splitter Prototype. The final version will be more refined. Actually, I'd almost placed an order for my specific custom laser engraving, though I stil can't design a proper logo for my own sake in time. Maybe next time of production~


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 13, 2018)

Hi everybody!
Glad to enter this very interesting thread 

Did someone tried to open RY4S (or GM500) EMX500 shells style yet?
I tried tonight and that's probably (with EMX500S from Fengru) one of my most EMX500 shells hard to open till date.
Seems like they are glued like hell..
I tried with mom hair dryer for a minute on the shells directly before trying.
There is now some scratchs around plastic drivers, but still not opened.
I begin to be worried, as I didn't wanted to scratch anything, and get clean earbuds, but look like we can't get those recabling without damaging.
Willsound MK2 was extremely easy to open for exemple.

Any recommendation is welcomed 

Also, do we really need to put glue after soldering internal plugs ? I'm planning to not doing so, not sure if it's risky?


----------



## pooty

Here's a bag of free random earbud stuff I don't need, if any of you DIYers can make use of it I'll mail it to you.


----------



## Lothar101

pooty said:


> Here's a bag of free random earbud stuff I don't need, if any of you DIYers can make use of it I'll mail it to you.


----------



## Lothar101

I'd love to have it the tips themselves are much needed.


----------



## cathee

Hey guys -

Interested in repairing / buildling a couple of pairs of earbuds but am looking for online retailers to source materials: drivers, cables, connectors: can anyone recommend a good website for the US?

TIA for your time.


----------



## HungryPanda

What size drill do you need to open up the chamber on MX500 shells?


----------



## Makahl

Hey! Do you guys use some wire stripping tool to remove the cables insulation for tiny wires?

I got a cable wired out of phase and I'd like to replace the connector and solder it properly. However, the wires are so tiny which makes difficult to remove the insulation using a utility knife, also it's a nightmare when I damage a wire and need to remake it again to get the alignment. So if there's a tool or a tip to do a good job I'd appreciate any kind of help!


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> What size drill do you need to open up the chamber on MX500 shells?



If you're talking about the air channel that parallels the wire channel - well, it's curved, and oval, so you can't actually run a straight drill bit down the length of it.
What I've done, is to take a 3.0mm - 3.5mm drill bit (which fits in the vertical opening), and angle it into the earbud back chamber, pressed down below the wire channel, and spin it with my fingers - to open the end of the air channel.
Then I take a "dental pick", and clean up the opening area of both channels.
.
In this photo, the upper hole you see, is the wire channel, and it is pretty much straight and round.
The air channel is below it, just above the gray area where the drill bit "chewed up" the plastic some.
.


----------



## subwoof3r

Hey guys,
How do you solder copper wires ?
I recently bought "WBT-0800 Silver Solder" but it works well only for silver (logic..) but not copper.
When I try: copper does not attach from solder to copper wires, the ball just "slides" 
Do I need to buy some *cu0.7* ?


----------



## DBaldock9

subwoof3r said:


> Hey guys,
> How do you solder copper wires ?
> I recently bought "WBT-0800 Silver Solder" but it works well only for silver (logic..) but not copper.
> When I try: copper does not attach from solder to copper wires, the ball just "slides"
> Do I need to buy some *cu0.7* ?




Maybe try a bit of mild Flux, to help clean the wire, which should allow better wetting of the solder.
I've been using WBT Silver Solder for years, mainly on copper wire (tinned & untinned), and IC chips.


----------



## subwoof3r

DBaldock9 said:


> Maybe try a bit of mild Flux, to help clean the wire, which should allow better wetting of the solder.
> I've been using WBT Silver Solder for years, mainly on copper wire (tinned & untinned), and IC chips.


Can you please share to me a link of the product to see how it looks please ? 
Cheers


----------



## endia

subwoof3r said:


> Hey guys,
> How do you solder copper wires ?
> I recently bought "WBT-0800 Silver Solder" but it works well only for silver (logic..) but not copper.
> When I try: copper does not attach from solder to copper wires, the ball just "slides"
> Do I need to buy some *cu0.7* ?


sounds like your copper wire is "enamelled" copper wire.. usually more flux paste and longer soldering time with higher temperature helps a lot..


----------



## Merlin-PT

To melt the "enamelled" of the copper wire, I make a melted solder ball attached to the iron tip and then dip the wire for some seconds into the solder ball until the "enamelled" melts.
After that the wire is good to solder.


----------



## DBaldock9

subwoof3r said:


> Can you please share to me a link of the product to see how it looks please ?
> Cheers



I think I've got some of this liquid flux - https://www.frys.com/product/8697820
Flux is also available as a paste - https://www.frys.com/product/6479492


----------



## subwoof3r

endia said:


> sounds like your copper wire is "enamelled" copper wire.. usually more flux paste and longer soldering time with higher temperature helps a lot..


Many thanks, I tried this and it just worked perfectly. I ordered (before trying this) a *cu0.7 *solding wire, so I will give a try to see if it helps too (for the fun).



Merlin-PT said:


> To melt the "enamelled" of the copper wire, I make a melted solder ball attached to the iron tip and then dip the wire for some seconds into the solder ball until the "enamelled" melts.
> After that the wire is good to solder.


Thanks for sharing this useful tips, I will try your method next time 



DBaldock9 said:


> I think I've got some of this liquid flux - https://www.frys.com/product/8697820
> Flux is also available as a paste - https://www.frys.com/product/6479492


Many thanks, I will give a look


----------



## endia

subwoof3r said:


> Many thanks, I tried this and it just worked perfectly. I ordered (before trying this) a *cu0.7 *solding wire, so I will give a try to see if it helps too (for the fun).
> 
> 
> Thanks for sharing this useful tips, I will try your method next time
> ...


you're welcome,
that's ok for soldering plugs pcbs etc. but when you solder that cable to the an earbud driver please prefer @Merlin-PT's method; since drivers don't like high temperatures and long soldering, it's more secure for them


----------



## HungryPanda

Todays creations: 

PK2 32 ohm driver:



 
MX500 300 ohm:


----------



## subwoof3r

Some *Vido* magicness from today


----------



## purplesun (Jan 6, 2019)

Hello, I forgot about this thread.

Something I do these days when I re-assemble the bud, is to put a thin width of surgical tape over the body/cover gap rather than glue them together.
I find it provides a more consistent air pressure seal. Easier than applying glue. And easier to take apart the buds again.
It looks ugly until the foams go on. Then no one will know it's there.
Works for me, and road-tested fine for past 2 years; never came apart.


----------



## HungryPanda

Great idea purplesun


----------



## subwoof3r

purplesun said:


> Hello, I forgot about this thread.
> 
> Something I do these days when I re-assemble the bud, is to put a thin width of surgical tape over the body/cover gap rather than glue them together.
> I find it provides a more consistent air pressure seal. Easier than applying glue. And easier to take apart the buds again.
> ...



Do you mean during the laying of the grill (usually which contains the speaker) on the shells ? or once everything is in place ?
_(not sure on the picture as I don't know this shell  )_


----------



## purplesun (Jan 7, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Do you mean during the laying of the grill (usually which contains the speaker) on the shells ? or once everything is in place ?
> _(not sure on the picture as I don't know this shell  )_



After you re-assemble everything together. The cover/grill and body usually snaps into place even without any glue, so just lay a thin strip of the surgical tape around the circumference and then work the sides of the tape down with you fingers. It was originally suppose to be a temporary thing, but it worked so well I put them on all the buds I assemble.

It's a white E808+ shell.


----------



## subwoof3r

purplesun said:


> After you re-assemble everything together. The cover/grill and body usually snaps into place even without any glue, so just lay a thin strip of the surgical tape around the circumference and then work the sides of the tape down with you fingers. It was originally suppose to be a temporary thing, but it worked so well I put them on all the buds I assemble.
> 
> It's a white E808+ shell.


Ok now I see, thank you very much for clarifying 
I'll try that and report


----------



## purplesun

subwoof3r said:


> Ok now I see, thank you very much for clarifying
> I'll try that and report


I don't think there should be any sonic improvements, unless it was leaking terribly at the cover/body gap in the first place.
Main thing for me was, it was easier to assemble & disassemble the buds. It made correcting mistakes easier.


----------



## purplesun (Jan 8, 2019)

Apologies for going off-topic. Am looking for recommendations on sub-$50 DAPs - vertically-oriented, simple user interface, slim and, typically, quite weak output.



I had originally wanted to find a housing for this headphone amp board from my old stash. It makes a nice weighty sound.
I then realise this could be a good basis for a DAP, if I can mash it with a slim DAP internals and house them together back-to-back (removing slim DAP's battery and rear housing).

I have no clue what is a halfway decent sounding cheap slim DAPs I see on AliExpress.
There used to be a few threads, but no one talks about them anymore.
Any recommendation on these slim DAPs will be helpful to me.
Thanks.

EDIT: Just to close out this off-topic post. I just ordered Benjie X3 from taobao for almost no money (around US$10). I will probably create another DIY thread if this DAP/Amp mash-up turns out any good.


----------



## mbwilson111

purplesun said:


> There used to be a few threads, but no one talks about them anymore.



This one is still active.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/obscure-chinese-daps.720512/page-368#post-14703651


----------



## purplesun

mbwilson111 said:


> This one is still active.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/obscure-chinese-daps.720512/page-368#post-14703651



Much obliged!


----------



## endia

purplesun said:


> Apologies for going off-topic. Am looking for recommendations on sub-$50 DAPs - vertically-oriented, simple user interface, slim and, typically, quite weak output.
> 
> 
> I had originally wanted to find a housing for this headphone amp board from my old stash. It makes a nice weighty sound.
> ...




a while ago, i had saw this, a bit late though..

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DSD...pm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.299.11cb3c00pVdlN0


----------



## Niqeres

subwoof3r said:


> Some *Vido* magicness from today


Damn that's a real nice, tight braid.


----------



## chaiyuta (Jan 15, 2019)

It takes quite a long time since I sent my specific DIY parts to PHARKAR consisting of 2 japanese soldering wire, CL copper splitter, 4.4 mm CL pure copper plug and Toxic discontinued Silver Plated Copper Litz (The Last workpiece before Mr.Frank died). Now My custom-spec PHARKAR 185 Ohm already finished. Look forward to listening it.


----------



## golov17




----------



## drey101

I got curious and inspired by the diy earbuds on post in the earbud and iem/earbud lounge. Complete newbie here, but would there be good source on how to get started making your own buds? Haha, I may be too optimistic about this as I only have super basic soldering knowledge back in college a few years back.

I know I can get cables, drivers and shells in aliexpress, but is there anything else I need to get started?


----------



## HungryPanda

My latest build 32 ohm carbon drivers


----------



## alias71

I broke the cable of my beloved mx 980 . Not sure how it happened, I was just storing them in a case like I have done for hundreds of times in the past. 
Is it possible to repair it or maybe I should re-cable them with a more durable cable? Is there anyone that can do it in US for a reasonable price?

Thanks!


----------



## golov17

alias71 said:


> I broke the cable of my beloved mx 980 . Not sure how it happened, I was just storing them in a case like I have done for hundreds of times in the past.
> Is it possible to repair it or maybe I should re-cable them with a more durable cable? Is there anyone that can do it in US for a reasonable price?
> 
> Thanks!


This is not your fault - this is a common problem with all mx980,985


----------



## alias71

golov17 said:


> This is not your fault - this is a common problem with all mx980,985



Thanks Golov17,
is there anything that I could attempt to repair it, maybe as a DIYer (I have a basic soldering skill)?


----------



## golov17

alias71 said:


> Thanks Golov17,
> is there anything that I could attempt to repair it, maybe as a DIYer (I have a basic soldering skill)?


yes, it is possible. once I did it in the past


----------



## alias71 (Jan 28, 2019)

golov17 said:


> yes, it is possible. once I did it in the past



Great, this gives me some hope!
I removed the rubber ring from the mx 980 earbuds but I could not find a way to open them. Can you please tell me how you opened them?
Thanks!


----------



## golov17

alias71 said:


> Great, this gives me some hope!
> I removed the rubber ring from the mx 980 earbuds but I could not find a way to open them. Can you please tell me how you opened them?
> Thanks!


with a knife, like, I don’t remember


----------



## golov17 (Jan 28, 2019)

@alias71


Spoiler


----------



## seanc6441

@golov17 how do you casually just remove the covers without damaging the drivers?

I find most drivers are pushed in so tight that you need to brake away the plastic cover to safely get the driver out.

Was it easier on the mx985?


----------



## Merlin-PT

I need to replace my toneking tomahawk cable, because it's very stiff after long time use.

I managed to open them today, I used an opening tool to pry a bit and then the old thumb nail lever technique.



Spoiler


----------



## seanc6441 (Feb 3, 2019)

Merlin-PT said:


> I need to replace my toneking tomahawk cable, because it's very stiff after long time use.
> 
> I managed to open them today, I used an opening tool to pry a bit and then the old thumb nail lever technique.
> 
> ...


You should try them in mx500 shells since you got them open. They use mx500 covers and it seems the foam 'horse shoe' filter is the same kind used in most mx500 shells.

In my tests from putting buds in mx500 shells and metal semi closed shells, It's possible the tomahawks sound sig would balance out really well in mx500 housings.

Obviously it's your choice, if you want to experiment a bit 

I wish my tomahawks were still working as I'd love to experiment with them, the sound was quite unique. But that upper mid-treble definately needed a slight smoothing!


----------



## Merlin-PT (Feb 3, 2019)

I use them in the computer for gaming and voice calls, mine are also very good for music, I don't detect any issue, I think there maybe quality issues or different batches in some earbuds, because I also read different opinions about them.
I know 2 people that also bought them, one loves the sound the other says it's very bad sounding, I only heard mine and they are very detailed and sound very good so I want to keep them this way. 

Maybe the difference between opinions is due to the huge amount of glue they use inside that can run to everywhere.


----------



## seanc6441

Merlin-PT said:


> I use them in the computer for gaming and voice calls, mine are also very good for music, I don't detect any issue, I think there maybe quality issues or different batches in some earbuds, because I also read different opinions about them.
> I know 2 people that also bought them, one loves the sound the other says it's very bad sounding, I only heard mine and they are very detailed and sound very good so I want to keep them this way.
> 
> Maybe the difference people notice is the huge amount of glue they use inside that can run to everywhere.


I liked them too, although I'd say they pair well with warm sources because they are bright.

I haven't heard them but it's a little like the penon bs1 I'd imagine in that it's nit neutral but coloured in a way that works very well for some music but others will dislike them.


----------



## Merlin-PT

Yes they are bright, but for me it translates in detail and musical, not at all piercing, but maybe they are not for bass people.


----------



## spikyfugu

Looking to build some diy earbuds after reading this thread.  I am so confused about which driver and which grill to use.  I mostly listen to jazz and classical but with some solid mid-bass and good detail on musical instruments.  Been reading about mx500 and they seemed to be geared toward bass-heads.  I am wondering if you guys have any suggestions where to start?

I have read somewhere maybe the best option is to buy a couple pairs of VE Monk and rip out the drivers and put it in a shell of choice and replace the cable.  

What do you guys think?


----------



## golov17

seanc6441 said:


> @golov17 how do you casually just remove the covers without damaging the drivers?
> 
> I find most drivers are pushed in so tight that you need to brake away the plastic cover to safely get the driver out.
> 
> Was it easier on the mx985?


the driver itself is glued to the case tightly, so that the cover is first unstuck


----------



## seanc6441

spikyfugu said:


> Looking to build some diy earbuds after reading this thread.  I am so confused about which driver and which grill to use.  I mostly listen to jazz and classical but with some solid mid-bass and good detail on musical instruments.  Been reading about mx500 and they seemed to be geared toward bass-heads.  I am wondering if you guys have any suggestions where to start?
> 
> I have read somewhere maybe the best option is to buy a couple pairs of VE Monk and rip out the drivers and put it in a shell of choice and replace the cable.
> 
> What do you guys think?



I'll reply in detail later, but shell type does not equate to the sound sig generally. The driver and tuning and shell together is important. I can suggest some later for ya!


----------



## subwoof3r

Some DIY crazyness of the night... 



A friend at work decided to throw away some very old earbuds, lucky me I was here before he throws them in the trash! haha
I have no idea of what shell it could be.. any ideas ?
Once at home, I immediately dismantled them and only kept the shells which I found to look a bit oldschool but very sexy (I like this), and what a surprise!, they sound very good with EMX500 drivers on them. Nice sound  (mids looks a bit forwarded on these shells)


Also, as a bonus picture, here is an overview of what will be my next mod :



The good things with these 2 shells is that they both fit perfectly EMX500 drivers, but just need some glue to fix them properly. I'll do that later once I will settle the right final sound for my tastes.
'laters


----------



## HungryPanda

I like those shells emx500 drivers would make them alive


----------



## seanc6441

DBaldock9 said:


> Finished the companion to the 2.5mm TRRS Extension Cable that I built.
> This one is a 3.5mm TRS Extension Cable - using Neutrik connectors at both ends, and 4-ft of the 8-Strand Braided wire - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fle...-Fidelidad-Auriculares-DIY-8/32784850684.html
> Now I have quality extension cables for my Balanced & Single-Ended earbuds.
> Since this wire is fairly stiff, these extensions are for use in my home system.
> .


I know I'm digging up a post from the past here but could I ask which neutrik connectors did you use? I'm looking to make something exactly like this except using a 2-3cm cable instead. It will be the ideal solution for my LG v30.


----------



## DBaldock9

seanc6441 said:


> I know I'm digging up a post from the past here but could I ask which neutrik connectors did you use? I'm looking to make something exactly like this except using a 2-3cm cable instead. It will be the ideal solution for my LG v30.



Did you want to assemble a 3-Pole (L+/R+/GND) cable, or a 4-Pole (L+/R+/GND/Mic) cable, to use with your LG V30?

The right-angle 3-Pole Neutrik plugs I ordered, were P/N: NTP3RC-B, from Zack Electronics, in California, since they had the best price.
https://www.zackelectronics.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=NTP3RC

Neutrik doesn't sell a 4-Pole version, but there is a 4-Pole plug available from Amazon. (Note: It doesn't have the same construction quality as the Neutrik.)
https://smile.amazon.com/KK-AS3b-4P-Streight-Connector-Straight/dp/B01LXALOHN


The 3-Pole Neutrik jacks I ordered, were P/N: AG NYS240BG, from Zack Electronics.
https://www.zackelectronics.com/neu...gold-w-solder-terminals-max-cable-od-4mm.html

Neutrik doesn't sell a 4-Pole version, but there is a 4-Pole jack available on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pcs-Headp...ale-Jack-Socket-Connector-Solder/202434778478

Hope this helps!


----------



## DBaldock9

spikyfugu said:


> Looking to build some diy earbuds after reading this thread.  I am so confused about which driver and which grill to use.  I mostly listen to jazz and classical but with some solid mid-bass and good detail on musical instruments.  Been reading about mx500 and they seemed to be geared toward bass-heads.  I am wondering if you guys have any suggestions where to start?
> 
> I have read somewhere maybe the best option is to buy a couple pairs of VE Monk and rip out the drivers and put it in a shell of choice and replace the cable.
> 
> What do you guys think?



These drivers, mounted in either MX500 or MX760 shells, will provide really good quality Midrange & Treble.  
I have them in MX760 shells, and their Bass is tight & detailed, but doesn't go as low as some of the other drivers I've tried.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...band-equalization-1pair-2pcs/32800609693.html


----------



## Merlin-PT

Those are dual diaphragm drivers.
I had them in my cart a long time ago and somehow I resisted to buy them, but now they are back in my cart.
You're putting my rehab in danger


----------



## subwoof3r

As promised, just finished my second mod with HTC shells


----------



## subwoof3r

Any recommendation for good universal MMCX pin socket that will fit best on MX500 shells ?
I found *these* but isn't 3.5mm a bit too large? I fear to crack the shell during piercing.


----------



## HungryPanda

I was sent this drill with some MX500 shells  and just twist it by hand at the entry to widen enough for those mmcx sockets. It is 3mm just enough to let you twist in the sockets.


----------



## subwoof3r

My yet first MMCX attempt on my best EMX500 DIY is a big success !!

I can now enjoy all my high-end MMCX cables on it, so happy!

I will do some more pictures later with my different cables ✌️
This one is a (very soft) NiceHCK 8 cores Pure Silver cable

Cheers'


----------



## thebentern

Those turned out tremendous! Which mmcx connector did you end up installing in the shells?


----------



## seanc6441

DBaldock9 said:


> Did you want to assemble a 3-Pole (L+/R+/GND) cable, or a 4-Pole (L+/R+/GND/Mic) cable, to use with your LG V30?
> 
> The right-angle 3-Pole Neutrik plugs I ordered, were P/N: NTP3RC-B, from Zack Electronics, in California, since they had the best price.
> https://www.zackelectronics.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=NTP3RC
> ...


3 pole was my initial thought, as my idea was to make a small adapter to connect my earbud cables to so when i use my phone as a dap it won't disconnect in my pocket as the v series phones tend to do when the plug gets nudged around in the socket.

Thanks this is great, appreciate the response!


----------



## subwoof3r

thebentern said:


> Those turned out tremendous! Which mmcx connector did you end up installing in the shells?


Here is the ones I used : https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ld-plated-copper-don/1396671_32919697350.html
I found them to be a bit expensive for what it is.. any cheaper recommendation maybe?

I did not ordered these directly, but *THIS kit* from same seller (to have the drill recommended by @HungryPanda), very good drill btw.


----------



## kadas152

It would be awesome if we could share mini reviews of drivers from Ali as a guide for others that are looking for one.

I am now looking for drivers to my "Piano Forte" project using wooden shell:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/16mm-earphone-shell-Green-sandalwood/32837762672.html

Looking for drivers that can be driven mainly from phone or pc (iPhone, iMac) or bluetooth cable (if I will be able to use mmcx connectors in shell). I originally thought that I would use Vido drivers but made my mind as these shells are quite expensive and would use as good driver as possible. Looking for detailed non fatiguing sound with good bass and warmth that would suite those beautiful wooden shells  

Probably going to buy these two: 32 ohm and 64 ohm

Does anyone have experience one of these? Or is it worth buying something more expensive? Like those  dual diaphragm? Or 150 ohm? How difficult is it to drive 150ohm earbud driver? Any other recommendation? @HungryPanda @DBaldock9 

 Thanks


----------



## seanc6441

kadas152 said:


> It would be awesome if we could share mini reviews of drivers from Ali as a guide for others that are looking for one.
> 
> I am now looking for drivers to my "Piano Forte" project using wooden shell:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/16mm-earphone-shell-Green-sandalwood/32837762672.html
> ...


It would be pointless for us to rec you drivers we have heard in mx500 shells as that piano forte design would have a huge effect on the frequency response.

Without knowing what that shell would do to the sound, it's impossible to give advice.

I think someone used that shell before with emx500 drivers, that's all I know.

Best thing I can say is to try vido first as its cheap, then work from there.


----------



## kadas152

seanc6441 said:


> It would be pointless for us to rec you drivers we have heard in mx500 shells as that piano forte design would have a huge effect on the frequency response.
> 
> Without knowing what that shell would do to the sound, it's impossible to give advice.
> 
> ...


Yeah I know that the shell will change a lot but I still believe that at least general technical capabilities will stay on true for both shell types. I’ve seen that EMX500 build and it’s description leads me to believe that the recommendations based on MX500 shell types will still be at least somehow relevant to me.

I am also generally interested in comparing those available drivers as others that I won’t use for Pianos will go into MX500 shells for their new happy lives full of music


----------



## seanc6441

kadas152 said:


> Yeah I know that the shell will change a lot but I still believe that at least general technical capabilities will stay on true for both shell types. I’ve seen that EMX500 build and it’s description leads me to believe that the recommendations based on MX500 shell types will still be at least somehow relevant to me.
> 
> I am also generally interested in comparing those available drivers as others that I won’t use for Pianos will go into MX500 shells for their new happy lives full of music


Ok in that case I recommend RY4S, kube V1 if you want to salvage drivers from those.

Or just for separate drivers check out yuming store or chitty store on aliex press. Lots of cool higher impedance drivers, I got a 400ohm driver from there.

You can buy emx500 and mx760 graphene drivers in 5/10 pack for a good price too. Those are good drivers to diy with.


----------



## HungryPanda

I put 32 0hm carbon drivers in my wooden shells


----------



## subwoof3r

Just succeed my first ever *Vido MMCX* mod 



If anyone is interested, I might sell them (as I still don't like Vido signature). They will comes with this cable


----------



## hungphi93

Does anyone try to build with driver Yuin PK1 in here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ori...earhook-earphones-disassemble/2034991204.html
The seller said that it is the disassembled drivers, so that means the sounds like the original Yuin PK1 right?
Thank you!


----------



## DBaldock9

hungphi93 said:


> Does anyone try to build with driver Yuin PK1 in here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ori...earhook-earphones-disassemble/2034991204.html
> The seller said that it is the disassembled drivers, so that means the sounds like the original Yuin PK1 right?
> Thank you!



I've purchased a set of the same drives, but from DIY Earphone Tribe Store.
They're in my earbuds parts bin, and I haven't installed them in any shells, yet.
If the shells you put them in have the same tuning holes & dampening material as the original PK1 earbuds, then yours should sound pretty much the same.


----------



## HungryPanda

They are pretty good drivers, I have made a couple of pairs with them


----------



## subwoof3r

Yesterday was time to finally MMCX my *Snow Lotus 1.0 




 *


----------



## hungphi93

DBaldock9 said:


> I've purchased a set of the same drives, but from DIY Earphone Tribe Store.
> They're in my earbuds parts bin, and I haven't installed them in any shells, yet.
> If the shells you put them in have the same tuning holes & dampening material as the original PK1 earbuds, then yours should sound pretty much the same.


Thank you for the suggestion. 
Do you mean dampening for #1 or dampening for #2 (tuning holes)? I think for tuning holes is easy to find instead of #1. I've been built PK2 before with different kind of #1 materials, the dense type will give more bass  












HungryPanda said:


> They are pretty good drivers, I have made a couple of pairs with them


Thank you so much! I've been ordered one pair and I still waiting for them


----------



## DBaldock9

I've found a budget priced (less than $10) cable with controls for for _Play/Pause/Vol+/Vol-_ that could be used to recable your earbuds (by removing the 2.5mm plugs).
It's available in Red, White, Blue, & Black.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tia...-X3-Earphone-3-5mm-Male-to-2/32834725227.html
.


----------



## DBaldock9

hungphi93 said:


> Thank you for the suggestion.
> Do you mean dampening for #1 or dampening for #2 (tuning holes)? I think for tuning holes is easy to find instead of #1. I've been built PK2 before with different kind of #1 materials, the dense type will give more bass
> 
> 
> ...



Well, both the driver dampening, and the shell dampening, should affect the sound of the earbuds.


----------



## hungphi93

DBaldock9 said:


> Well, both the driver dampening, and the shell dampening, should affect the sound of the earbuds.


It would be a pleasure to ask you to propose some type of dampening  Thank you


----------



## HungryPanda

I use things like this
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ed-ear-style-earphone/323026_32226059686.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...d-speaker-unit-complex/323026_2036360886.html


----------



## HungryPanda

Good day all, I just got a hold of some 16mm drivers but I'm stumped as to which shells I could use


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> Good day all, I just got a hold of some 16mm drivers but I'm stumped as to which shells I could use



Maybe 3D print some shells?


----------



## HungryPanda

Unfortunately I have no 3D printer did put a couple of these in my cart for sale day

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY...eadphones-shell-casing-15-4mm/2033165338.html


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> Unfortunately I have no 3D printer did put a couple of these in my cart for sale day
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY...eadphones-shell-casing-15-4mm/2033165338.html



While I don't have a printer myself, there's a local CreatorSpace / Maker Group, that has 3D Printers - http://creatorspace.org/
The local county library also has 3D Printers - http://www.hcpl.net/content/3d-printing
For either one, I'd probably have to install some open source CAD / Design Software on my PC.

Might be worth it, to check and see whether there's a Maker Group that's local to you.
Or, check with Monoprice, to see about buying one of their inexpensive 3D Printers - https://www.monoprice.com/search/in...D Printers mand Accessories&TotalProducts=313


----------



## HungryPanda

I don't think I have room for one really


----------



## subwoof3r

Dear *Willsound MK2* ..sorry, it was your turn to get MMCX !!


----------



## HungryPanda

subwoof3r said:


> Dear *Willsound MK2* ..sorry, it was your turn to get MMCX !!


Looking great


----------



## HungryPanda

Ended up using two of Qigom CM5 16mm drivers in a MX760 shell, had to glue them on then use a pair of rubber rings to cover the join. Sound fantastic, I prefer them without foams.


----------



## DBaldock9

During this current AliExpress Sale, I'm ordering ~24x 3.5mm / 2.5mm DIY cables, to get some of my earbuds assembled more quickly.  
I still have a box full of wire, to braid into earbud cables, as well...


----------



## subwoof3r

My yet first "lemon" *PK2 MMCX* mod
it's going to be refreshing for this upcoming summer!


----------



## ForceMajeure

subwoof3r said:


> My yet first "lemon" *PK2 MMCX* mod
> it's going to be refreshing for this upcoming summer!



I dig the color matching! it looks great


----------



## subwoof3r

HungryPanda said:


> Ended up using two of Qigom CM5 16mm drivers in a MX760 shell, had to glue them on then use a pair of rubber rings to cover the join. Sound fantastic, I prefer them without foams.


Nice, we are lacking of MX760 mods those days (generally speaking), maybe I will make one once I will settle with all my MX500 shells mods


----------



## hungphi93

Thank you, @HungryPanda and @DBaldock9, it completed  The cable also DIY too.


----------



## HungryPanda

hungphi93 said:


> Thank you, @HungryPanda and @DBaldock9, it completed  The cable also DIY too.


Looks very nice indeed, well done


----------



## ForceMajeure

Some of you might be interested in the mod I just did.

I call it the X6 shell mod on RW-9.

I have received the yincrow RW--9.

Compared to the X6 (both using donuts foams), the RW-9 stock do have a wider soundstage and better separation BUT I found them to be lacking a bit too much in the lower mids department. 
True, they sound cleaner than the X6 but the they are slightly on the shrill side of things with too much upper mids emphasis compared to the X6. I wasn't satisfied, I just wish they had slightly more lower mids even with some added midbass like the X6 had.

some argued that the X6 had too much midbass bleed but I preferred them in tonality compared to the RW-9, although the RW-9 are more competent technically with more depth and better separation.

I tried adding full foams instead of donuts, they gained in bass and the upper mids/lower treble weren't as prominent anymore but I lost in detail compared to the X6 (with donuts foams)

I tried double donuts on the RW-9, thinking it will add more bass to counteract the upper mids, but it didn't work out and they were still too prominent against the rest of the sound sig for me... 

Long story short I was thinking of punching the backfoam on the RW-9 shells to allow for more venting thus adding more midbass but before I did so I decided to swap the shells keeping their back foams respectively. So I am using an X6 backshell with the RW-9 drivers
The X6 backfoam allows for a better back venting bringing back a bit of warmth and lower mids. So far I prefer the sound

IMO they sound better then RW-9 stock. Having better tonality not lacking lower mids as much anymore

Maybe some of you would like to try the switch. IMO it's worth it.
I might consider tweaking the back foam on the RW-9 shells later and see if I can attain more control compared to the X6 shell used with RW-9 drivers but for now it will do.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 3, 2019)

ForceMajeure said:


> Some of you might be interested in the mod I just did.
> 
> I call it the X6 shell mod on RW-9.
> 
> ...


You can usually achieve a low mid bump by getting the driver closer to your ear. This means you can tune the earbud to sound best with thin or no foams, and by using it without thick foams in theory you will get fuller mids (the bass will also sound warmers and less extended as you are reducing seal and increasing airflow most likely. But the low mids from 200-800hz definitely sound fuller to my ears.

I'm also someone who enjoys the right amount of low mid emphasis so that the sound is full, contrasting with brighter upper mids makes a richer sound.

This trick works for me.


----------



## ForceMajeure

seanc6441 said:


> You can usually achieve a low mid bump by getting the driver closer to your ear. This means you can tune the earbud to sound best with thin or no foams, and by using it without thick foams in theory you will get fuller mids (the bass will also sound warmers and less extended as you are reducing seal and increasing airflow most likely. But the low mids from 200-800hz definitely sound fuller to my ears.
> 
> I'm also someone who enjoys the right amount of low mid emphasis so that the sound is full, contrasting with brighter upper mids makes a richer sound.
> 
> This trick works for me.


I used the foams that came with them, I didn't have any thinner foams on hand, also using thinner foams might reduce the seal I get with the buds thus reducing bass. you are right though if one could get them closer against the ear the mid bass and part of the lower mids would be more prominent. but it's a balance act as always with buds.


----------



## seanc6441 (Apr 3, 2019)

ForceMajeure said:


> I used the foams that came with them, I didn't have any thinner foams on hand, also using thinner foams might reduce the seal I get with the buds thus reducing bass. you are right though if one could get them closer against the ear the mid bass and part of the lower mids would be more prominent. but it's a balance act as always with buds.



You're right in that the perceived mid bass increases as the sub bass drops more dramatically than the mid bass with thinner less sealing foams.

That's why my main criteria for modding earbuds these days is: Good bass response (deep and punchy without too much bleed into mids) and good low mid quality (linear and full sounding). The upper mids and treble are more easily balanced with foams and different dampening. Good bass and low mids are really hard to tune right without the driver having the quality to begin with.

I don't know the exact science behind it but regardless of seal the FR does get more trebley the further you move it from your ear.

But the perception of mid bass vs low mids can be confused sometimes. I try to listen to male vocal or deeper string instruments to determine how the low mids are placed.

Some drivers can deliver extremely impressive low mid quantity regardless of position (ourart ti7 for example which has the driver recessed 2+mm yet delivers very full low mids) but most mx500 earbuds need to sit pretty close to the ear to deliver what I would consider a neutral low midrange.

That's why I tend to tune earbuds to work well with thin foams if they need to sound fuller, or thicker multi hole/donut foams if they could use less low mid quantity (more rare, but an example would be the shozy bk)


----------



## subwoof3r

For those interested, I'm sharing my links for usual various tests when I finish each of my DIY projects : 

*Left/Right test*
*Out of phase test*
*20Hz-20kHz test*
*Sub-bass test*
Enjoy 


btw, any recommendation about your best PK1/2 drivers ? I would like to try another drivers into my PK shells.
Something between 32 and 150 ohms max. I have a preference in V-shaped presentation (so excellent subbass and bass, not recessed mids if possible, and much details in high frequency).


----------



## HungryPanda

best ones I have had https://www.aliexpress.com/item/pk1-speaker-150ohms-red-film/32307011109.htm
also really good 32 ohm  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5Pa...s-Sound-quality-Speaker-unit/32969609452.html


----------



## subwoof3r

HungryPanda said:


> best ones I have had https://www.aliexpress.com/item/pk1-speaker-150ohms-red-film/32307011109.htm
> also really good 32 ohm  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5Pa...s-Sound-quality-Speaker-unit/32969609452.html


Many thanks for your recommendation. Did you tried *these drivers* ? (if yes, how they compare to the 32ohms you linked?), they are the ones I currently use in my MMCX PK2.


----------



## HungryPanda

Those are older reclaimed drivers, the ones I posted are new drivers, I have not tried them


----------



## subwoof3r

New toys received today!! 
_*excited*


 _


----------



## subwoof3r

My new reference earbuds is born today ! 
(featuring the right above quoted 150 ohm drivers)

Blowing up ALL earbuds I heard till now


----------



## subwoof3r

My new transparent MMCX prototype 
(featuring my previous reference 32 ohm drivers)


----------



## HungryPanda

looks great & very tidy


----------



## fairx

Guys what are keywords to find MMCX parts for earbud? My search returns mostly Bluetooth parts in aliexpress.


----------



## DBaldock9

fairx said:


> Guys what are keywords to find MMCX parts for earbud? My search returns mostly Bluetooth parts in aliexpress.



Try searching for "mmcx socket".


----------



## fairx

DBaldock9 said:


> Try searching for "mmcx socket".


Thanks. I use "MMCX female" and found bunch too .


----------



## subwoof3r (Apr 14, 2019)

fairx said:


> Guys what are keywords to find MMCX parts for earbud? My search returns mostly Bluetooth parts in aliexpress.


If it can help, here is the link of the *MMCX PINs* I always buy from ali (good seller and nice package, I recommend).
A bit expensive but didn't found cheaper for now for 10 pairs (at this exact dimensions). Excellent quality, and all my units are working perfectly for now


----------



## fairx (Apr 14, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> If it can help, here is the link of the *MMCX PINs* I always buy from ali (good seller and nice package, I recommend).
> A bit expensive but didn't found cheaper for now for 10 pairs (at this exact dimensions). Excellent quality, and all my units are working perfectly for now


Thanks. I might try to get 2 pair. One for earbud and one to fix my xe800 iem.

Edit * maybe 3 pair, my piston also in dire need of repair (if I can find a way to open it.)

Edit 2

Those 150 ohm, is there any reference (to common earbud) in how they sound? Seems interesting


----------



## spikyfugu (Apr 17, 2019)

Just bought some drivers.  So I got a couple of drivers.  I am confused which lead is + and which lead is - on both of these can someone give me a pointer?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ori...204.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.65294c4drDBEQC

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MMX...83.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.52013904iRFVhv

thanks


----------



## HungryPanda

With the driver connections nearest you, + is on the left


----------



## Merlin-PT (Apr 17, 2019)

@spikyfugu
In each driver, you need to find a mark that identifies the side with the same polarity solder connector.

For example, in each of the 600ohm drivers (see photos), there is a RED dot that identifies the same polarity solder point side.
In the 150ohm drivers (see photos), the same polarity side is marked with a BLACK line (and some color painted in that side metal).


----------



## spikyfugu

@Merlin-PT 

So for 600ohm one, the red dot side means the polarity (+) side and the opposite side is ground (-)?  
And for 150ohm one, the black line side is polarity (+) and the opposite side is ground (-)?


----------



## Merlin-PT (Apr 18, 2019)

Yes, I use the color mark in the drivers as the positive and no mark as ground.


----------



## spikyfugu

HungryPanda said:


> With the driver connections nearest you, + is on the left





Merlin-PT said:


> Yes, I use the color mark in the drivers as the positive and no mark as ground.



Thanks for the pointer


----------



## Merlin-PT

I wanted a much lower priced MMCX connector and bought these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-p...r-PCB-mount-Straight-Adapter/32850165362.html

They are cheaper and shorter, maybe some will need to be glued to the shell.

It's not soldered yet, I'm considering these 2 options, L (longer shell) or R (shorter shell), I think I like the Right shorter version better:











 


Spoiler: More Photos


----------



## JackFlash

Shorter looks great.


----------



## HungryPanda

My latest creation with mmcx connectors. 32 ohm carbon drivers


----------



## DBaldock9

@HungryPanda - Have you tried this $18.50 back shell, from Chitty's Store?
.


----------



## HungryPanda (Apr 22, 2019)

.


----------



## DBaldock9

DBaldock9 said:


> I've finished the Red & Blue sets of Earbuds that a co-worker is buying for her sons.  I'm including small cases, and some full & donut foams.
> 
> These were assembled with the "Bass" drivers, in the modified MX500 shells, using the foam "Tuning Cotton" (haven't yet received the white fabric tuning cotton), along with a bit of long-fiber acoustic stuffing in the housings.
> 
> Using the frequency sweeps on AudioCheck.net, they have good Bass (starting at 20Hz), and fairly smooth response up to where my hearing drops off (13 - 14KHz).



I've found out that the silicone insulated wire that I used for those earbuds, can't take the stress of being used by active boys.
Where the wires come out of the connector & heat shrink - the copper wires broke, inside the flexible insulation.

I've replaced the earbuds - using pre-assembled cables from AliExpress (which include Mic/Remote phone controls), these drivers [ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY...headphone-speaker-Heavy-bass/32325458276.html ], and some more of the modified MX500 shells.


----------



## viatraco

Is PK1 red film driver is better than transparent ? Isn't it too bass muddy ?


----------



## spikyfugu

viatraco said:


> Is PK1 red film driver is better than transparent ? Isn't it too bass muddy ?



I just built a custom one with pk1 red film.  Sounds great and crisp for mids and highs.  Sound stage is also quite good.  Bass is a bit on the weak side when not EQ but I was playing around with PowerAmp and my LG G7 with QuadDac Hifi on with 50% more bass on EQ and it came alive.  Maybe I need to somehow tune the bass on the shell.


----------



## DBaldock9

@HungryPanda -  Have you assembled any earbuds, using the smaller sized 13.5mm drivers?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NC0...ddle-hole-Copper-ring-13-5mm/32247864310.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/TON...-Copper-Ring-PET-Single-Film/32947583272.html


----------



## HungryPanda

I tried David but ended up not using them, treble is piercing with very little bass


----------



## HungryPanda

My latest little creation, I got the earbuds for £0.90 but there was no left channel. The problem was with the cable but desoldering the cheap drivers destroyed them. I recabled the shells and used some 32 ohm "sweet vocal" drivers I had. Now they sound rather good.


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> My latest little creation, I got the earbuds for £0.90 but there was no left channel. The problem was with the cable but desoldering the cheap drivers destroyed them. I recabled the shells and used some 32 ohm "sweet vocal" drivers I had. Now they sound rather good.



That's a really tiny looking shell. 
I wonder whether a "Subwoofer" driver would be able to generate some usable low Bass?


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm getting great bass from these


----------



## Jsingh4

Guys According to you which are the best 14.8mm and 15.4mm drivers available.


----------



## HungryPanda

Depends what sound you want. 14.8mm pk1 or pk2 are best. 15.4 mm I have used so many different ones


----------



## Jsingh4

HungryPanda said:


> Depends what sound you want. 14.8mm pk1 or pk2 are best. 15.4 mm I have used so many different ones


Natural sound, natural resolving bass.


----------



## HungryPanda

Then for 15.4 mm I suggest EMX500 drivers then you can alter bass by using different thickness and material tuning foams/ paper


----------



## HungryPanda

￡16.50 | 15.4mm speaker unit mid and low frequency 32ohms (can use mx500 and mx760 shell) 10pcs
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bGOHdvQY are pretty good sounding


----------



## Jsingh4

HungryPanda said:


> ￡16.50 | 15.4mm speaker unit mid and low frequency 32ohms (can use mx500 and mx760 shell) 10pcs
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bGOHdvQY are pretty good sounding


Thanks, though the link is not working and what do you think about the beryllium 600 ohm driver, how close would you say is it to k600.
I also see electrostatic driver available for 14.8mm


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm on my mobile at the moment will sort the link out later when I get home. I have used those 600 ohm drivers and they sound great. I have not used any of the electostatic drivers in my earbuds yet


----------



## Merlin-PT

@Jsingh4
ClieOS made a very detailed post about those electostatic drivers here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cli...1707-mmcx-adapter.899252/page-2#post-14937629


----------



## Jsingh4

Merlin-PT said:


> @Jsingh4
> ClieOS made a very detailed post about those electostatic drivers here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cli...1707-mmcx-adapter.899252/page-2#post-14937629


Thanks but I think the link you shared is about planar drivers, but still this link is also helpful.


----------



## Merlin-PT

They looked like the same ones in these photos:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-p...er-enthusiast-DIY-headphones/32953543325.html


----------



## Jsingh4

Merlin-PT said:


> They looked like the same ones in these photos:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-p...er-enthusiast-DIY-headphones/32953543325.html



Yup that is correct, not sure maybe @ClieOS can clarify


----------



## chrislawrence

Jsingh4 said:


> Thanks, though the link is not working and what do you think about the beryllium 600 ohm driver, how close would you say is it to k600.
> I also see electrostatic driver available for 14.8mm


I am also very interested in those 600 ohm drivers. I have my finger on the buy button right now. @HungryPanda you said you've used them? Do you think it's worth it? Anything better out there? These seem to be at about the top of the Aliexpress earbud driver tree that I can find without venturing into electrostatic territory, which there appears to be only one of available, with almost no reviews or info about them, and almost triple the price of the Berylliums.


----------



## chrislawrence

By the way, how much do you feel it would impact the sound to have an earbud case with a large vent on the back, like these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979868884.html compared to a more closed unit, like these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33013253479.html. Does the case material impact the sound enough to be worth considering?


----------



## DBaldock9

chrislawrence said:


> I am also very interested in those 600 ohm drivers. I have my finger on the buy button right now. @HungryPanda you said you've used them? Do you think it's worth it? Anything better out there? These seem to be at about the top of the Aliexpress earbud driver tree that I can find without venturing into electrostatic territory, which there appears to be only one of available, with almost no reviews or info about them, and almost triple the price of the Berylliums.





chrislawrence said:


> By the way, how much do you feel it would impact the sound to have an earbud case with a large vent on the back, like these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979868884.html compared to a more closed unit, like these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33013253479.html. Does the case material impact the sound enough to be worth considering?



Just this week, I used that metal shell, and installed this 600Ω driver - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MMX...-high-frequency-equalization/32910917383.html
I also used a lower profile MMCX connector [ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Uni...ure-copper-gold-plated-don-t/32797640235.html ], which I think looks better than the one that comes with the shell.  
It did require getting a M4 x 0.5 tap, to enlarge the holes.

Before installing the MMCX connectors, I soldered on some short wires - 
.

 
.
.
After installing them, I glued the MMCX connectors and nuts, with some Gel Super Glue -
.
 
.
.
The drivers were then soldered to the wires, and installed into the shells -
.
 
.
.
They ended up costing me $68.83 (Drivers = $43.20, Shells = $18.50, MMCX Jacks = $7.13).
Currently, I've got them connected to my Little Bear B4-X Balanced Tube amp, and I'm watching "Charlie Luxton's Homes By The Sea" on Netflix.


----------



## HungryPanda

I put my 600 ohm drivers in a more traditional plastic MX500 shell:


----------



## HungryPanda

One of my favourites is a 32 ohm carbon driver in a wooden shell, sound really good:


----------



## chrislawrence

DBaldock9 said:


> Just this week, I used that metal shell, and installed this 600Ω driver - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MMX...-high-frequency-equalization/32910917383.html
> I also used a lower profile MMCX connector [ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Uni...ure-copper-gold-plated-don-t/32797640235.html ], which I think looks better than the one that comes with the shell.
> It did require getting a M4 x 0.5 tap, to enlarge the holes.
> 
> ...


They look great! How do the drivers sound? Did it require much tuning? Do you think the big vents on the back create a little more soundstage compared to a more closed shell?


----------



## chrislawrence

HungryPanda said:


> One of my favourites is a 32 ohm carbon driver in a wooden shell, sound really good:


Would you happen to have a link for those drivers, mate? How do they compare to the 600 ohm beryllium-membrane drivers?


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...-mx500-and-mx760-shell-10pcs/32958362241.html


----------



## chrislawrence

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/15-...-mx500-and-mx760-shell-10pcs/32958362241.html


10 for $20 is surprisingly cheap. And you say you prefer these over the $45 600-ohm drivers?


----------



## HungryPanda

I have used these drivers in the wooden shells, MX500 shells in various colours and with different cables. I have made quite a few for some friends and workmates who all like them


----------



## HungryPanda

I wouldn't say I prefer them over the 600 ohm but they sound good and are much easier to drive


----------



## DBaldock9

chrislawrence said:


> They look great! How do the drivers sound? Did it require much tuning? Do you think the big vents on the back create a little more soundstage compared to a more closed shell?



Since the drivers already have "Tuning Cotton" installed over the holes in the driver frame, the only tuning I've done, is to place a Donut foam over a Full foam.
I haven't made any measurements, but I suspect the vent opening at the back of the metal shell has a freer air flow than a standard MX500 shell.
Some of my first impressions of these earbuds, were that they have a big wide Sound Stage, and really good low Bass.


----------



## subwoof3r

New today's DIY fun 

Featuring the "original" Yuin PK1 150 ohm drivers that were recommended by @HungryPanda, sound is really nice (for yuin shells) I confirm!
Also.. I guess you recognize this cable @DBaldock9 ? 


 

Cheers'


----------



## Jsingh4

subwoof3r said:


> New today's DIY fun
> 
> Featuring the "original" Yuin PK1 150 ohm drivers that were recommended by @HungryPanda, sound is really nice (for yuin shells) I confirm!
> Also.. I guess you recognize this cable @DBaldock9 ?
> ...


Were they with the red film or transparent?


----------



## activatorfly

Here's my first review in ages - of the ST-10 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/smabat-st-10.23718/reviews#review-22191


----------



## subwoof3r

Jsingh4 said:


> Were they with the red film or transparent?


Red film


----------



## Jsingh4

subwoof3r said:


> Red film


Oh wow can you describe the sound.


----------



## subwoof3r

Jsingh4 said:


> Oh wow can you describe the sound.


Completely depends of the (tuning in) the yuin shells, so hard to describe, but globally you probably have one of the best 14.8mm drivers with those, and you can have much fun to tweak with in-shells tuning


----------



## DBaldock9

subwoof3r said:


> New today's DIY fun
> 
> Featuring the "original" Yuin PK1 150 ohm drivers that were recommended by @HungryPanda, sound is really nice (for yuin shells) I confirm!
> Also.. I guess you recognize this cable @DBaldock9 ?
> ...



I've got a set of those 150Ω Red Film Drivers here, but haven't decided which shells I'm going to install them in.
.
The choice is between these PK1 shells -
.




.
.
and the black or white version of the shells you used -
.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have used  those Oppo A8 shells before:


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> I have used  those Oppo A8 shells before:



Didn't realize those were called "A8".
The page I ordered from called them "Disassembled pk1 shell".


----------



## activatorfly

DBaldock9 said:


> Didn't realize those were called "A8".
> The page I ordered from called them "Disassembled pk1 shell".


Has anyone any experience of using A8 unit drivers? 
They cost around £8 each - I plan eventually to use them in a DIY build......after initially practicing with much cheaper drivers via Taobao.


----------



## HungryPanda

I made a couple of pairs with the Fever A8 16 ohm Sunrise SR2 drivers, I actually put them in an MX500 shell and they sound terrific


----------



## activatorfly

HungryPanda said:


> I made a couple of pairs with the Fever A8 16 ohm Sunrise SR2 drivers, I actually put them in an MX500 shell and they sound terrific


Thanks!.....you used these?:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SUN...fever-headphone-unit-A8-style/1984665598.html


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes those are the ones


----------



## HungryPanda

These are the latest drivers I'm waiting on, I'm interested how they will sound

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...-sense-of-hearing-ear-trumpet/2026398451.html


----------



## Jsingh4 (Jun 9, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Completely depends of the (tuning in) the yuin shells, so hard to describe, but globally you probably have one of the best 14.8mm drivers with those, and you can have much fun to tweak with in-shells tuning


Can we put these 14.8mm red film drivers in **** pt 25 shell?


----------



## subwoof3r

Jsingh4 said:


> Can we put these 14.8mm red film drivers in **** pt 25 shell?


If PT25 supports 14.8mm drivers then yes, no idea otherwise


----------



## Merlin-PT

HungryPanda said:


> These are the latest drivers I'm waiting on, I'm interested how they will sound
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIF...-sense-of-hearing-ear-trumpet/2026398451.html



They use a 47ohm smd resistor (marked 470) in series in each driver.


----------



## HungryPanda

I noticed that, that is why I'm interested, I modded the HiFiMan HE350 by adding a resistor and a few other components in each cup to tame the shrill highs once


----------



## subwoof3r (Jun 13, 2019)

Damn, those original PK1 red film drivers are sounding SO good! they are very easy to tune thanks to some mods in the shell.
I perfectly modded mine for electronic musics, they have the best V sounding that I've ever heard from any PK shell. Equiped with full thick foams, they have unbelievable subbass and bass impact, good mids, and exceptionally detailed highs, with overall natural and good transparency.
My yet best PK mod so far. I will make some pictures soon 




HungryPanda said:


> I noticed that, that is why I'm interested, I modded the HiFiMan HE350 by adding a resistor and a few other components in each cup to tame the shrill highs once


Please stay us tuned for your impressions on those drivers, looks promising


----------



## subwoof3r

Here are my 2 new beasts (my yet best creations and references)

Featuring :

150 ohm drivers in Yuin shells modded (extremely deep sub-bass and impact in bass for a yuin shell, with very good mids and very good highs/details)
150 ohm drivers in MX500 shells modded (my reference, very good sub/bass, deep and spacious soundstage, very natural and transparent sounding, excellent mids and best highs/details)



 

Cheers'


----------



## Jsingh4

What cable did you use?


----------



## subwoof3r

Jsingh4 said:


> What cable did you use?


copper


----------



## HungryPanda

Made a couple of earbuds today:

in the rear 35 ohm PET drivers with copper cable

in the forefront clear shells, blue/silver braided cable and 30 ohm old reclaimed drivers I was lucky to receive.


----------



## Jsingh4

Hi guys,
I want to buy a new soldering station for earbud repair or DIY. I have never done soldering myself before, should I go with micro soldering station or mini.
What voltage is required and what kind of iron do you guys use.
I know these questions are very basic not sure even I should ask in this thread, I would appreciate any kind of recommendations/suggestions


----------



## DBaldock9

Here's a nice reference for good soldering stations, that cost less than USD$50 - https://vkrepair.com/best-soldering-station-50/


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jun 18, 2019)

@Jsingh4
I don't have a soldering station, so I don't have experience to recommend one.
I was looking the other day at youtube for soldering stations and saw everybody was talking about the next generation T12 tips. So search for "T12 soldering station" and also take a look at what people say about these. There are some T12 clones with oled screen that are cheap and look good. Again I don't have one, so I don't know how they perform.

My concern with clones is safety and quality control, still I would like to try one of those T12 oled clones, but would need to look at the reviews to find the better ones. Advantages are changing the tips to different tip shape/size and lower price tips. Also the T12 tip can put more heat in large surfaces, than the older technologies.

I have (since ever) and use two JBC classic irons, JBC 30S and JBC 14S, they are good and I'm happy with them. They last a life time.

Irons usually come with round tips, but I prefer a small chisel tip (0.8mm or 1.2mm).
We need small tip for precision, but we also need a big contact surface size to transfer heat.
The bigger the contact surface, the better heat is transferred and round tips only make a very small point in surface contact, because they are all curved.


----------



## HungryPanda

I use a fine point tip when soldering drivers as I do it quickly


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jun 18, 2019)

In my previous post I assumed it wasn't only for earbud work.
For earbud DIY only, a small tip is the best and a soldering station is not needed.
The JBC 14ST nowadays costs more than 45 eur, maybe it's a bit expensive for only earbuds work.


----------



## Jsingh4

Thank you guys. I really appreciate your advice, so let's say I just want to use it for earbuds, and I use an iron so how much power do I need (watts) and exactly how thin Should be the tip.
Thanks again


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jun 19, 2019)

For the tip I would say:
fine tip: 1mm or 1.2mm (diameter). Because it's round, initial contact surface it's like 0.1mm.
chisel tip: 0.8mm or 1.2mm (chisel wide). Because it's flat, initial contact surface is 0.8 or 1.2mm and solder in the tip also stays in that flat spot.
You only need one of these and all work well.

If the iron is not temperature controlled, 11 wats to 30 watts.
It's difficult to say, because not all irons can put all the power into temperature at the tip.
11 watts is good for soldering the drivers, but can be a bit weak to solder thick wires.
30 watts is too much for soldering the drivers and small wires, so you need to do it fast, to not melt plastic.

If it's temperature controlled, you can get 60 to 90 watts, it should have a thermostat and apply only the needed power to maintain the selected temperature. Not all have thermostat to select the temperature, in some you can only select the power level.

Try to get a ceramic resistance iron, they leak less current and are much better.
Make sure the iron mains cable has earth.
If you can change the tips it's also a plus, if T2 too expensive, previous tech 900M tips are also good and very cheap.


----------



## Jsingh4

Guys thank you so much @DBaldock9, @HungryPanda, @Merlin-PT you are the best.

Also if the film has been seperated from the driver it can be soldered back using the coil but will it have any effect on sound

Also if I have adjustable temp solder iron at what temp I should work on for the driver.


----------



## HungryPanda

300C desolder, 400C solder


----------



## subwoof3r

Personally I solder/desolder everything at 300C, excepted at 320C to help melting some various copper wires (even if I still have some difficulties, as it generally burns at least 1 good centimeter of the plastic from wires).
My iron is 65W but has digital control for the degrees.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jun 20, 2019)

If you happy with it maybe you could post a link?

I got a cheap CXG E90WT from AliE, (CXG E60WT also enough power for earbuds), The CXG tip that came with it is good and it solders very well.
For soldering electronics and safety I connect it to an earth mains power socket.
I've read some reviews in youtube about this cxg model, but Chinese quality is so-so, after 2 months one of the buttons doesn't make good contact, I have to press it several times to lower the temperature.
I have some safety concerns about connecting cheap Chinese electronics to the mains power, but I didn't have any issue yet.

@Jsingh4
Regarding the temperature it depends on the iron power, tip size, the surface size to solder and the solder type.
Not all tips are good, a bad tip can make a good iron not soldering. Solder must stick to the tip easily for good heat transfer.
When you soldering, the tip gets oxidized, every time it's oxidize you need to clean it in a wet sponge before you continue soldering.

With the cxg I've being using 300C to 320C to solder electronic components and only going to 340C when I need to solder large copper surfaces. The higher the temperature, the lower the tip life, high temperature will damage the tip and burn the surface we are soldering.

Always use the lowest temperature possible that melts the solder well.
Apply the temperature the lowest amount of time possible.
Clean the tip in a wet sponge to remove the tip oxidation when soldering, do it every time the tip is not bright or to remove solder.
Use a noncorrosive  flux to help the solder stick to the surface, a good soldered spot must have a very bright finish without any oxidation.


----------



## JackFlash (Jun 20, 2019)

Some good soldering advice on this board.

I have heard good things about the TS100 and TS80 soldering irons. I haven't used them myself, but the TS80 looks like a good bet for tight and careful work.

Also, this guy has some really helpful soldering videos on Youtube. Sometimes it's hard to find the good stuff with all the BS out there.


----------



## subwoof3r

Merlin-PT said:


> If you happy with it maybe you could post a link?


I'm using this iron (chinese one but quality looks OK to me (while not exceptional) :




I just checked for the direct link but looks like the product has been retired from Amazon and is no longer available 
It was called "_VICTSING iron 220V 65W with Digital Screen LEDs_" etc.
My unit is working well since few months. For what I need to do I'm happy with it for now

I heard good things about TS irons. Great quality price ratio!


----------



## Merlin-PT

The other day I was buying some soldering iron sponges in aliexpress, but nowadays all I can find are these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32832434094.html
Years ago sponges were much bigger and better, but I can't find those now, the new ones are small and only keep water for a day.

Interesting is what I read in the comments, a guy says we could buy any cellulose sponge and recommends bigger cellulose cosmetic sponges.

I wanted a bigger sponge, so it doesn't dry in a day, so I searched Ali for cellulose sponges and I bought these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32970793733.html

It's much better than the other ones, it's smooth and dense, it keeps water for several days.
Now I treat my iron tip like a girl's face


----------



## subwoof3r

HungryPanda said:


> I noticed that, that is why I'm interested, I modded the HiFiMan HE350 by adding a resistor and a few other components in each cup to tame the shrill highs once


Hiya, did you received these drivers yet @HungryPanda ?  still highly interested in your thoughts (especially compared to original PK1 red film drivers, if possible)


----------



## chrislawrence

Well, I made the earphones with the 600ohm beryllium membrane drivers and i'm completely blown away by how good they sound. I am relatively new to the audiophile world, and I realise hearing and tuning will be different for everyone, but they don't sound light on the bass to me (although i did mess with the various tuning options until I got soundstage and bass nicely balanced - for me).  They sound delicate, nicely balanced, PLENTY of sub-bass, soundstage on the scale of open-back headphones, and very detailed without an inkling of sibilance. Highly recommended if anyone is still deciding on them. I driving them on the Zishan DSD AK4497EQ, which has no issues at all powering these little monsters. For my first DIY project, I am as giddy as a schoolboy that found a magical corridor into an edible chocolate world. Thank you all, for the recommendations!


----------



## DBaldock9

chrislawrence said:


> Well, I made the earphones with the 600ohm beryllium membrane drivers and i'm completely blown away by how good they sound. I am relatively new to the audiophile world, and I realise hearing and tuning will be different for everyone, but they don't sound light on the bass to me (although i did mess with the various tuning options until I got soundstage and bass nicely balanced - for me).  They sound delicate, nicely balanced, PLENTY of sub-bass, soundstage on the scale of open-back headphones, and very detailed without an inkling of sibilance. Highly recommended if anyone is still deciding on them. I driving them on the Zishan DSD AK4497EQ, which has no issues at all powering these little monsters. For my first DIY project, I am as giddy as a schoolboy that found a magical corridor into an edible chocolate world. Thank you all, for the recommendations!



I just spent the night enjoying music (dozing on & off in my recliner), using my version of the DIY Beryllium 600Ω Earbuds -
.

 
.
 
.


----------



## subwoof3r

Where did you guys got these beryllium drivers, any link to share please? Looks interesting
Cheers


----------



## chrislawrence

subwoof3r said:


> Where did you guys got these beryllium drivers, any link to share please? Looks interesting
> Cheers


I ordered them from Chitty's store. But it's not the only Aliexpress source: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32910917383.html


----------



## DBaldock9

subwoof3r said:


> Where did you guys got these beryllium drivers, any link to share please? Looks interesting
> Cheers





chrislawrence said:


> I ordered them from Chitty's store. But it's not the only Aliexpress source: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32910917383.html



Mine came from Chitty's Store, as well.
Their sound is really quite special.
To me, they're a bit like a cross between the K's K600 and the Smabat ST-10.
.
(Off-Topic - I've ordered a set of 10mm Beryllium drivers, and some Cherry wood housings w/MMCX, to assemble some new $78.38 earphones.)


----------



## chrislawrence

DBaldock9 said:


> Mine came from Chitty's Store, as well.
> Their sound is really quite special.
> To me, they're a bit like a cross between the K's K600 and the Smabat ST-10.
> .
> (Off-Topic - I've ordered a set of 10mm Beryllium drivers, and some Cherry wood housings w/MMCX, to assemble some new $78.38 earphones.)


You mean these ones, David: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32766220304.html?
Keep us posted! If they are those, I had my eye on those very drivers as well. I was unsure how to mount them as an earbud though; it seems most of the 10mm driver shells are more on the lines of an IEM casing, such as this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32507926085.html. Still, I'm looking forward to hearing how they come out; I'm currently building a CIEM using Knowles BA drivers; a dynamic IEM would be amazing!


----------



## DBaldock9

chrislawrence said:


> You mean these ones, David: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32766220304.html?
> Keep us posted! If they are those, I had my eye on those very drivers as well. I was unsure how to mount them as an earbud though; it seems most of the 10mm driver shells are more on the lines of an IEM casing, such as this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32507926085.html. Still, I'm looking forward to hearing how they come out; I'm currently building a CIEM using Knowles BA drivers; a dynamic IEM would be amazing!



Yes, that's the driver.  
I contacted the seller (as noted in the description of the driver), and asked if it would fit & sound good in this housing - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10mm-earphone-shell-Cherry-wood-mmcx-pin-pluggable/32787946986.html
They said "Yes", so I ordered the drivers & housings.


----------



## chrislawrence

It seems Chitty is also stocking 10mm biocellulose drivers: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32765713539.html They're expensive, but I'm considering taking the plunge. Not sure how they would compare to the beryllium drivers though. Any thoughts?


----------



## DBaldock9

chrislawrence said:


> It seems Chitty is also stocking 10mm biocellulose drivers: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32765713539.html They're expensive, but I'm considering taking the plunge. Not sure how they would compare to the beryllium drivers though. Any thoughts?



I know that @HungryPanda has assembled some earbuds, or earphones, using some biocellulose drivers - but I haven't tried any yet.


----------



## subwoof3r

DBaldock9 said:


> Their sound is really quite special.
> To me, they're a bit like a cross between the K's K600 and the Smabat ST-10


How can I resist to click the buy button when quoting such references?!! 
I will buy one pair tonight
Thanks guys 

Always happy dealing with Chitty's store, just received my 3 pairs of white Yuin shells, they have been incredibly well packaged for just basic shells, very appreciated.


----------



## HungryPanda

In my last batch of items from Chitty's store there were a pair tiny iems with 6mm drivers already in the front part of shell, cabled them up and glued together, the sound pretty good (a very interesting freebie)


----------



## Jsingh4 (Jun 28, 2019)

seanc6441 said:


> Truely open back will be difficult as most earbuds are tuned to work with a semi open back design.
> 
> 
> 
> That's my favorite shell design of all I've used. It's similar in size to a PK shell, very comfortable and has a good cavity size. Also I feel that fully open or mostly open front grilles are superior to that of the mx500 which only vents around the edge. I feel the metal grilles that open the sides and the middle for example give a more balanced sound positioning and respond better to foam changes.



Where can I get these shells ?


----------



## subwoof3r

I finally decided to not buy the beryllium drivers and buy instead the "15mm speaker unit 78ohms" too, and another pair of new 150 ohms 15.4mm drivers.
Can't wait to receive them


----------



## seanc6441 (Jun 28, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Where can I get these shells ?


Very sorry my post was misleading. This is the K's Black Ling. Not a diy earbud. So i don't know if you can buy this shell type separately. I wish it was sold for diy projects because it has a perfect fit with thin foams, as comfortable as pk shell but more weighty.

There is however something similar like this

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32979868884.html


----------



## HungryPanda

Yes I have 2 pairs of those shells wating for a nice set of drivers


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> Yes I have 2 pairs of those shells wating for a nice set of drivers



If you weren't across the ocean, with the correspondingly high mailing costs, I'd send you my set to try, so you can see how good the 600-Ohm Beryllium drivers sound.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have choices of drivers. Just not decided on which ones yet. A purchase has turned into totally different ones than I first ordered .


----------



## Jsingh4 (Jun 29, 2019)

Umm guys it may sound stupid but can we use 2 drivers (dual drivers) on one side to make earbuds.
Just wanted to know


----------



## seanc6441

Jsingh4 said:


> Umm guys it may sound stupid but can we use 2 drivers (dual drivers) on one side to make earbuds.
> Just wanted to know


That's what my Rose Mojito is, a dual driver setup.

You need extra circuitry to make a crossover point where one driver cuts out and the other begins. (so one driver acts as the bass, the other as mids and highs).

I don't know the fine details of how it works but I do know it requires some extra knowledge and skill to create.


----------



## Jsingh4

So is three possible too just asking


----------



## HungryPanda

Three is overkill but 2 can also be used as a push/pull setup


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Three is overkill but 2 can also be used as a push/pull setup


What do you mean by push pull? Never heard this phrase in driver tech.


----------



## HungryPanda (Jun 29, 2019)

Drivers in opposite polarity one drives forward then the other pulls it back. I have a spirit labs headphone that emplys it.

http://sea.audio-technica.com/ckr/smt/drivers.html


----------



## seanc6441

HungryPanda said:


> Drivers in opposite polarity one drives forward then the other pulls it back. I have a spirit labs headphone that emplys it.
> 
> http://sea.audio-technica.com/ckr/smt/drivers.html


And this is a good idea? Seems like the margin for error in design is near zero or you'd have some weird sound issues.

Never thought this would be a thing, I've never seen it in any IEMS/headphones before.


----------



## HungryPanda

You are behind the times young man


----------



## DBaldock9

Isobaric loudspeakers have been around since the 1950s - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isobaric_loudspeaker
Back in the '80s, I built a small pair of experimental Isobaric Transmission Line speakers.
They sounded pretty good, considering the small, inexpensive drivers I was using.


----------



## seanc6441

I wonder why we don't see this tech in earbuds more often?


----------



## Jsingh4

So Did anyone here made an earbud using 2 drivers at one side.


----------



## HungryPanda

Not me


----------



## Jsingh4

So guys I guess I asked this before as well but did not get any response so does k's k600 sounds exactly similar to *Beryllium 600 ohm drivers
or is there a difference*


----------



## GREQ

Instead of creating a new thread for mods, I think it makes most sense to put them here if that's alright with everyone.
I think it makes sense to keep the 'diy ideas' together.
So I've got two quite different things to present.

*"Vido MDR-EX90LP"*
I put vido drivers into an old counterfeit Sony MDR-EX90LP shell (very old counterfeit with shockingly good outer build quality)
Required double foaming for fit, which also adds a lot to sound tuning.

Sound is very warm, yet retains most of the detail in the mids.
Sub bass and treble are both rolled off. Lends itself to very relaxed, low fatigue listening.

  

*"Vido open-vent mod"*
Simple opening of the infamous 'closed vent'.
I used a rotary tool with a small round engraving bit to open it from the inside.
Sound is much fuller/.thicker, and bass slams harder.
It's the bassiest bud I've heard yet, and honestly this is exactly what I was hoping the mod would achieve. 
I think Kube v2 might be bassier, but IMO also has a very overbearing lower-midrange, which isn't V-shaped, more like it's just missing upper mids and treble... depends how you see it.
There is a slight overbearing quality to the upper bass, and some might describe it as getting boomy or slightly mushy, but overall it's quite good fun! 
Separation between bass and mids is still very good, with little bleed into the mids.
*

  
*


----------



## subwoof3r

What you guys thinks about those shells? looks good!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33013205678.html


----------



## DBaldock9

Jsingh4 said:


> So guys I guess I asked this before as well but did not get any response so does k's k600 sounds exactly similar to *Beryllium 600 ohm drivers
> or is there a difference*



I've got the K's K600, which is in a MX500 shell; and the Beryllium (600Ω) driver in a metal shell.
The Beryllium driver is a bit more efficient (louder) than the K600, when switching back-and-forth between them.
It may also have slightly more low Bass (or that could just be that it's a bit louder).
Otherwise, they do sound very similar.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 6, 2019)

I also have those diy 400 and 600 ohm, my expectations were too high because of the price,  after arriving they sounded good but not spetacular and I was a bit disappointed. I need to try to tune them and see if I can get them closer to my taste.
I tuned the 400 to have a lot more detail, by cutting the paper filter and opening some of the holes in the drivers back. I use the mx500 shell from k64, because the mx500 shell sold with the drivers is different inside and I don't like the sound image, i couldn't locate voice or instruments precisely.
After some days experimenting with the paper and opening the vents, I got a brighter sound, with much more detail, but also a lot of punch, the only trade off is that it can be a bit more tiring to some. After a lot of burnin it's one of my favorites in zishan z2 with acoustic music, voices, bossa nova and jazz.

The 600 version as it arrived is a lot different, warmer, more bass, more difficult to drive. It sounded better in zishan dsd than in z2.
It took a lot of time to tune the 400 ohm to the z2, music type and my personal preference, so I think I'll need to invest some time  to try to tune the 600 model.
I want to put the 600 in a mx500 shell with mmcx connectors, but when I did that, I lost the wire venting port and they sound worst.
I went and open the port next to the wire, only to learn I made a very big hole (1mm) and bass was uncontrolled. One side had a smaller hole and sounded good, the othe was just a tiny bigger and bass was uncontrolled there. It's going to be difficult to make same size and tune the right size. I also tried some dampning materials inside without good results.
I closed those holes and start playng with the driver paper venting ports. I didn't had time to finish it and tune to my linking, it's still a work in progress, as I think they are also promissing.
This reflects my personal preferences, music type and my dap, others will get different experience, but it's worth sharing.


----------



## Jsingh4

Merlin-PT said:


> I also have those diy 400 and 600 ohm, my expectations were too high because of the price,  after arriving they sounded good but not spetacular and I was a bit disappointed. I need to try to tune them and see if I can get them closer to my taste.
> I tuned the 400 to have a lot more detail, by cutting the paper filter and opening some of the holes in the drivers back. I use the mx500 shell from k64, because the mx500 shell sold with the drivers is different inside and I don't like the sound image, i couldn't locate voice or instruments precisely.
> After some days experimenting with the paper and opening the vents, I got a brighter sound, with much more detail, but also a lot of punch, the only trade off is that it can be a bit more tiring to some. After a lot of burnin it's one of my favorites in zishan z2 with acoustic music, voices, bossa nova and jazz.
> 
> ...


How did you @DBaldock9 tune it


----------



## DBaldock9

Jsingh4 said:


> How did you @DBaldock9 tune it



I haven't done any measuring, to see if the vent in the back of the metal shell that I used, is larger or smaller than the vents in the MX500 shell.
All I can say is - that after installing the unmodified 600Ω Beryllium drivers in the metal shells, I like the way they sound.


----------



## ezzony

Hi, I'm looking for a android wire cable for my phillips earbuds. Could anyone recommend one? I'd like one that is 1.5 to 1.8m in length.


----------



## DBaldock9

ezzony said:


> Hi, I'm looking for a android wire cable for my phillips earbuds. Could anyone recommend one? I'd like one that is 1.5 to 1.8m in length.



I've bought, and cut the 2.5mm plugs off of some of these cables, to solder the wires onto several earbuds.
The controls work well with my LG V30 Android phone.
(*NOTE:*  Removing some of the clear outer sleeving from the wires, so they can be soldered to the drivers, is a bit tricky.)
.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32834725227.html


----------



## ezzony

DBaldock9 said:


> I've bought, and cut the 2.5mm plugs off of some of these cables, to solder the wires onto several earbuds.
> The controls work well with my LG V30 Android phone.
> (*NOTE:*  Removing some of the clear outer sleeving from the wires, so they can be soldered to the drivers, is a bit tricky.)
> .
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32834725227.html



Thanks they look fairly good.

I'm also considering this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33005665484.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.42f16fe11I4Wwu&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10304_10307_10820_10821_537_10302_536,searchweb201603_52,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=03227309-e9e9-4ce1-a826-0508994db058-0&algo_pvid=03227309-e9e9-4ce1-a826-0508994db058
or
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-...hash=item2abed5acfc:m:m3IQHiM3lNRdQGOUFYR1hMA

I used the same LG one on my monks in the past. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ven...hat-taking-the-world-by-storm.783669/page-477 .
I quite like the look of the rocker style control on the akg as I just find the rocker style a better  design than individual buttons.

Only thing is they are both 1.2m which I find a little on the short side.


----------



## subwoof3r

Look what I finally received today 

 

I measured them all at 77 ohm (almost 78), which is the right value claimed.
I remarked that it is also real 15mm, so it does not fit 15.4mm classic MX500 shells, but they almost fit Yuin shells with their 14.8mm (I guess I will fix them with some very slight glue)
I will try to do that tonight, as I can't resist how is the sound provided by these drivers!
'laters


----------



## HungryPanda

I still haven't used the ones I received


----------



## subwoof3r (Jul 15, 2019)

Do someone tried these drivers yet ? they looks pretty interesting
15.4mm beryllium (130 ohm) drivers

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33045137363.html


----------



## HungryPanda

I have not look interesting. I am really liking these: ￡10.55 10%OFF | 15.4mm speaker unit about 35ohms PET film Elastic bass 2pcs https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bXmCW6FQ​


----------



## subwoof3r

subwoof3r said:


> Look what I finally received today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So, as promised, here are my quick impressions of these drivers.
I tried many shells tips, but unfortunately I don't recommend them at all. They sound dull and veiled overall. While the soundstage is large enough end enjoyable, this is more a mid-centric driver before all. Lacking details, and average bass (almost no subbass). Highs are very softened, so it is good for long period listening.
I decided to remove them and put my still best red film PK1 drivers which are *MUCH* better in every area. I did some new tuning with new cottons and holes into my yuin shells. They are definitely now my best Yuin mod so far. Will take some pictures soon, I moved from black to white shells recently. They looks very good with their custom copper cable (same cable as Blox YIN/TM9) from Thailand.



HungryPanda said:


> I have not look interesting. I am really liking these: ￡10.55 10%OFF | 15.4mm speaker unit about 35ohms PET film Elastic bass 2pcs https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bXmCW6FQ​


Not sure if I understood correctly but do you mean that my quoted above "_15.4mm beryllium (130 ohm) drivers_" are not interesting? do you have them? do they sound bad?
Thanks for the discover, I will grab a pair of your recommended 15.4 PET film drivers. I stay you tuned


----------



## HungryPanda

I meant I do not have the 130 ohm drivers but like the look of rhem


----------



## HungryPanda

subwoof3r said:


> So, as promised, here are my quick impressions of these drivers.
> I tried many shells tips, but unfortunately I don't recommend them at all. They sound dull and veiled overall. While the soundstage is large enough end enjoyable, this is more a mid-centric driver before all. Lacking details, and average bass (almost no subbass). Highs are very softened, so it is good for long period listening.
> I decided to remove them and put my still best red film PK1 drivers which are *MUCH* better in every area. I did some new tuning with new cottons and holes into my yuin shells. They are definitely now my best Yuin mod so far. Will take some pictures soon, I moved from black to white shells recently. They looks very good with their custom copper cable (same cable as Blox YIN/TM9) from Thailand.
> 
> ...


my experiments will continue, even electronic tinkering


----------



## subwoof3r (Jul 15, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> my experiments will continue, even electronic tinkering


Just want to share you guys the link of my yet best 150 ohms 15.4mm drivers (they are the ones that equip my best MX500 shells mod) : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32983256142.html
I really enjoy the warm side, resolution, bass impact, mids, details, soundstage. Everything is there. Highly recommended, moreover for the price!

*edit* : oh well.. just ordered the 130 ohm 15.4mm beryllium drivers (with your 35 ohm PET drivers) ! lol
couldn't resist....


----------



## subwoof3r

subwoof3r said:


> So, as promised, here are my quick impressions of these drivers.
> I tried many shells tips, but unfortunately I don't recommend them at all. They sound dull and veiled overall. While the soundstage is large enough end enjoyable, this is more a mid-centric driver before all. Lacking details, and average bass (almost no subbass). Highs are very softened, so it is good for long period listening.



Btw, here is a little pic how it looks on Yuin shells with these drivers. Looking good, but too bad for the sound then.


----------



## subwoof3r

Just received today my new 15.4mm 150 ohm variant drivers!
I stay you guys tuned for the first try with them tonight


----------



## subwoof3r (Jul 17, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Just received today my new 15.4mm 150 ohm variant drivers!
> I stay you guys tuned for the first try with them tonight


And as promised, here are my quick impressions of these drivers.
There is for sure much enjoyment in the mids and highs, but bass feels lacking punch and dynamic, does not rumble at all (almost no subbass). Slightly sounding "congested", not very natural and transparent.
Soundstage is average but coherent and intimate.
I tried some MX500 shell modding to see but unfortunately drivers does not respond well and remains the same sounding. I tried also to remove the white coton tuning (that we can easily find on ali), and put another more common but same sound. I tried without anything and same sound too.
I recommend them for musics that don't requires much bass, better for vocals or instrumental I would say.
I decided to remove them to solder again my previous 150 ohm reference drivers (that I shared recently).

From my DIY experience I remarked that the sound is altered by drivers which makes 80% of the overall sound (approx), other 20% are : 10% on tuning shells tune, and 10% in the quality wires used (copper/silver).
When a driver sound bad from the beginning, no need to let it burn for so many hours to expect any changement, as it will already sound at least 90% of their best. That is why I dont spend much time keeping the driver units I don't like (don't worry so much, as I don't throw them after that )

I'm currently experimenting some various "coton" tuning (or other materials), into yuin shells, we can do incredible changements which affects the sound to perfectly match our tastes.
Next step: can't wait to receive my 130 ohm beryllium drivers, and the 32 ohm PET recommended by @HungryPanda ! 
I expect a lot from these and competition between my reference 150 ohm will be hard I guess.


----------



## HungryPanda

There is always a lot of trial and error in the quest to make an astounding earbud


----------



## Jsingh4

HungryPanda said:


> There is always a lot of trial and error in the quest to make an astounding earbud



Which is your fav driver till now, the one that you listen to the most


----------



## Jsingh4

Btw awaiting @subwoof3r your review on 15.4mm 130 ohm beryllium drivers


----------



## HungryPanda

I actually listen to a lot of my builds, but my favourite drivers are 32 ohm carbon, 400 ohm beryllium and some old 30 ohm drivers that someone got for me that cannot be bought


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 17, 2019)

A also like and use other earbuds I have, but the 400 ohm beryllium graphene are my favorites, the ones I use most of the time.
I don't have the carbon you mention.
Anyone tried the 500 ohm ?


----------



## subwoof3r

Where did you guys grabbed those 400 ohm beryllium drivers ? also interested in the 32 ohm carbon version (if possible).
Damn.. my wallet!


----------



## Merlin-PT

The one I got say they are 400ohm graphene and not berilium:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32853343596.html


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm only finding the 150 and 600 ohm beryllium drivers today
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32910917383.html


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 17, 2019)

I think at some point one of the sellers called the 400 ohm beryllium others called it graphene, but it was the same photos and driver.
For example I random searched and this seller calls the 600 ohm graphene, but all the others call the 600 ohm beryllium:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32910550850.html


----------



## Jsingh4 (Jul 19, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I actually listen to a lot of my builds, but my favourite drivers are 32 ohm carbon, 400 ohm beryllium and some old 30 ohm drivers that someone got for me that cannot be bought



Can you guys describe 400 ohm driver's sound.
Also any links for 32 ohm carbon driver


----------



## subwoof3r

As promised! here are two pictures of my actual yet best Yuin mod


----------



## subwoof3r

My first ever wood build is born today ! 






Those shells that we can easily find aliexpress are really cool. The wood is good quality and they are well finished. Sound is very good overall, but my only issue with them is that they only fit big ears (which I don't have..), unless wearing them without any foam at all, but strangely they don't sound so bad at all foamless (which is a good thing depending on the drivers used) !


----------



## Jsingh4

HungryPanda said:


> I actually listen to a lot of my builds, but my favourite drivers are 32 ohm carbon, 400 ohm beryllium and some old 30 ohm drivers that someone got for me that cannot be bought



Are these the Carbon 32 ohms?


----------



## HungryPanda

Not the ones I use.

These are the ones.  
￡15.75  5%OFF | 15.4mm speaker unit mid and low frequency 32ohms (can use mx500 and mx760 shell) 10pcs
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cXA5J8Ug


----------



## subwoof3r

Proud to present you my first ever metal build !


----------



## Merlin-PT

I ordered those mmcx connectors and the wood shells, do you have an idea if they will fit?
About those metal shells being conical near the driver and the wood shells being round in the same part, does wood take too much more space in the ear or it's +- the same?

What about the shell material, metal vs wood vs plastic, are there differences that you can point out, like is there a warm/bright shell type?
What about stage and voice image based on those shell shapes, any conclusion or comments?


----------



## HungryPanda

subwoof3r said:


> Proud to present you my first ever metal build !


Very nice build


----------



## HungryPanda

My builds from yesterday


----------



## Jsingh4

subwoof3r said:


> Proud to present you my first ever metal build !


What are these shells
Where did you find them


----------



## subwoof3r

Merlin-PT said:


> I ordered those mmcx connectors and the wood shells, do you have an idea if they will fit?


This is the first thing I tried to see once received, but unfortunately the cavity is very small due to wood thickness, so the usual mmcx connectors we can find does not fit as the main wire hole is too big, so the only sort of mmcx connectors that should fit are *those ones*, but the included nuts does not enter in the cavity to be screwed. We can always try with some kind of glues but on wood, its always a bit special and I doubt it will be securly fixed forever. I think those already made wood shells are better to be used with thin wires only.
On my metal build, I perforated the main wire hole to let enter freely the mmcx connectors that I quoted, which are better fit than the ones included because thicker and shorter.



Merlin-PT said:


> About those metal shells being conical near the driver and the wood shells being round in the same part, does wood take too much more space in the ear or it's +- the same?


The wood shells will only fit big ears with usual MX500 drivers plastic covers, while the metal ones are more standard, I can have the same (if not better) fit than plastic shells.
My only cons in those both metal and wood shells is that drivers need some glue to be fixed and stay in place. Otherwise on the metal ones (especially) drivers rotate freely and does not "snap" like we can see on standard plastic shells.



Merlin-PT said:


> What about the shell material, metal vs wood vs plastic, are there differences that you can point out, like is there a warm/bright shell type?


After experimenting that, I can say that I returned back to standard plastic shells, because metal sounds (typical) slightly metallic and slightlmy less natural, otherwise it was very close to plastic, so I rank them in my second best choice. I did not spend too much time with wood, but it here also has the characteristics we can wait from wood, so everything is a bit tamed and bass a bit more bolded due to other freqs tamed.



Merlin-PT said:


> What about stage and voice image based on those shell shapes, any conclusion or comments?


Those shells sounds VERY different from each other, best way is to experiment (price is very acceptable anyway), but beware of the metal that is extremely fragile around the drivers "snap" part. Also the included grids to cover the holes are not correctly glued to the metal part better use custom filters.
They are both recommended for fun experimentations, but I personally prefer standard plastic shells for now (easier and funnier to make holes mods, mainly).




HungryPanda said:


> My builds from yesterday


Very nice builds, 
Does the shells you used in your "old reclaimed drivers" build, is snapping well without glue generic MX500 drivers ? (15.4mm) // I recognize the RY4S shells type
Also, how is the fit and comfort compared to most commons MX500 shells ?
I'm looking for a shell between comfort of MX500 and yuin PK 



Jsingh4 said:


> What are these shells
> Where did you find them


Here is the links of the shells I used :

Wood shells : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/32956277065.html
Metal shells : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/33013205678.html


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 21, 2019)

I got the connectors (B) from here, acceptable price for only 1 pair:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33035633031.html








I also have these taps, useful to make several screw thread sizes, other sizes can be bought:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32834979916.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32320148126.html

If the wood wall was thick I could only screw the connector, but I don't know if it's that thick to hold, I'll see when it arrives.
From the photo the nut can't be much smaller.

I had bought several of these cables to cut the mmcx connector and use only the wire and jack in my projects, but they are so good, I couldn't cut them yet:
(I don't have many different to compare, but I liked this model the best for it's price and quality, so I bought more of these)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32971728152.html
They are very good and were around 5 eur with coupons at the time, search for the better price, many sellers have them.
They also have the 16 core version, but I don't think 8 wires can fit 1 shell, but they must be good to use with mmcx.
I got the 8 cores version to cut the mmcx, but I liked them so much that I bought more to also use them with mmcx. I think 4 wires could fit the shell.
I used a x-acto knife to cut the stiff transparent sleeve only leaving like 4mm out of the mmcx connector, then I trimmed the sleeve edge with a nail clipper.



Spoiler: transparent sleeve length cut




Transparent sleeve length cut (photo wire color is bad light reflection, real wire color is all copper with no oxidation)


----------



## Jsingh4 (Jul 22, 2019)

Guys which is the best 14.8mm driver?
And did anybody try any good 14mm driver?


----------



## subwoof3r

Jsingh4 said:


> Guys which is the best 14.8mm driver?
> And did anybody try 14mm driver


For now, my best 14.8mm drivers are *these ones*.
I will tell if I find better one day


----------



## Jsingh4

Thanks and what about 15.4mm, I have a feeling it's going to be more than one


----------



## Dhulfiqar (Jun 30, 2022)

.


----------



## robar

Hi! 
I would really like to build an earbud with smooth natural sound in an mx760 shell. I've found this DIY set which seems nice, but this would be my first project and I'm not sure if it's any good. Has anyone tried this before?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32960995932.html
Thanks


----------



## GREQ

I painfully (not painstakingly... definitely painfully) braided a 4-core cable for my Sabia V6.
With the technique finally down, I might try a few more. 
Not sure if it really needs a heavy duty Y-split and looks natural enough without one... maybe it depends on cable quality and use/abuse? I personally can't see it being an issue.

Suggestions welcome, this is my first DIY earbud re-cabling, normally I stick to full size headphone modding. 
The only thing I would change is a smaller heat-shrink strain relief at the plug, and maybe transparent instead of black.


----------



## HungryPanda

robar said:


> Hi!
> I would really like to build an earbud with smooth natural sound in an mx760 shell. I've found this DIY set which seems nice, but this would be my first project and I'm not sure if it's any good. Has anyone tried this before?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32960995932.html
> Thanks


I have used those drivers in a mx760 shell. I added a horseshoe tuning foam and they sound great


----------



## robar

HungryPanda said:


> I have used those drivers in a mx760 shell. I added a horseshoe tuning foam and they sound great


Thanks, I'll give it a go then! In the pictures I already see one layer of foam on the drivers (white), do you mean that you added one additional horseshoe?
I've also found these two mx500 drivers in the store, are you familiar with any of them?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979009902.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978515836.html
I started to read through this thread and I see that you recommend a lot of stuff from Chitty's store, like mx500 drivers, shells etc. but they are only available in lots. Do you think it's possible to order only 1 unit?
Thanks a lot


----------



## HungryPanda

You can usually buy a pair only. The first mx500 link I just used recently and have created the earbuds with the most bass ever. They sound close to my HD650


----------



## robar

HungryPanda said:


> You can usually buy a pair only. The first mx500 link I just used recently and have created the earbuds with the most bass ever. They sound close to my HD650


Wow, thanks, maybe I buy one and put it in a vido shell 
About Chitty, yes I meant to buy only 1 pair of drivers for example. I only see listings there which only let me buy 10 units minimum, which is overkill and too expensive for me :/


----------



## Jsingh4

HungryPanda said:


> You can usually buy a pair only. The first mx500 link I just used recently and have created the earbuds with the most bass ever. They sound close to my HD650



Umm which drivers are talking about can give the link again?


----------



## HungryPanda

The first link in robar's post above


----------



## HungryPanda

Tonight's little build


----------



## Jsingh4

Hi @subwoof3r did you receive the 130ohm beryllium driver. Waiting for your review.


----------



## subwoof3r (Aug 13, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Hi @subwoof3r did you receive the 130ohm beryllium driver. Waiting for your review.


Oh yes, sorry, completely forgot that

I received at the same time as with my TY Hi-Z 32 ohm and the 32 ohm PET drivers tjhat were recommended by @HungryPanda (thanks to that!)
So I will make two reviews instead of one 

*15.4mm 130 ohm beryllium drivers : *
They are for now my new favorite/reference and king of any drivers I found for now since I DIY. I just ordered a backup pair since few days already.
The sound is exceptionnal, truely a "TOTL" one, many DIY potentials with some kind of shell mods.
Sound is extremely transparent, fun and natural, with a nice touch of warm. Thanks to its dark (not cold) background and presensation, the soundstage is incredibly deep (and large when it needs to be), instrument separation at its top notch level.
Details are extreme with a rare kind of precision (I keep rediscovering all my tracks with them, this is the first time I feel that on a DIY earbuds).
Bass is punchy with nice mid-bass presence, sub-bass rumble has the right amout without beeing overwhelmed (maybe some will find this part lacking), mids are just insane (vocals singing just in front of you), never enjoyed that much from any earbuds I listened I think. Highs are never sibilant nor harsh, the tune is exceptionally good, they achieved micro-details without any listening fatigue at all (for me it is a crucial point). Good drivers always need to be like that in details/highs area, this is the way you recognize good drivers.
Brillant tune and build quality done on these drivers. Highly recommended! (I recommend to buy on Chitty's store as they do excellent shipping packages, never disapointed until now).
I would say.this is the kind of drivers that hurts a lot "TOTL" already-made eaburds over 200$+.


They are now included in my new best 15.4mm DIY project (which I recently added a good looking Y-splitter) :




*15.4mm 32 ohm PET drivers : *
They reached directly my second best drivers to date and they just beat my previous 150 ohm 15.4mm reference that I recommended few pages back.
They are overall performing very good for a 32 ohm drivers.
Just had to re-work the cotton tuning a bit as they were a but loose or badly placed on my received units.
Good bass, mids too, but highs a little crispy sometimes, so I just have to fine tune that with some shell mods later.
They are very transparent and natural sounding too. Good details too (but I don't rediscover my tracks like on the 130 ohm beryllium).
They could be good drivers for mid tier level I would say.

Will share later some photos of my DIY buds equiped with them 

Cheers'


----------



## Jsingh4

subwoof3r said:


> Oh yes, sorry, completely forgot that
> 
> I received at the same time as with my TY Hi-Z 32 ohm and the 32 ohm PET drivers tjhat were recommended by @HungryPanda (thanks to that!)
> So I will make two reviews instead of one
> ...


Wow thanks for the super review I am glad that I asked otherwise I would have missed a gem.
BTW what cable is that and I think you also follow hakuzen's cable page, so have you ever tried the UPOCC one which he recommends?


----------



## subwoof3r

I forgot to precise but, beware if (like me) you guys generally replace the stock (bad quality) tin solder "balls" from each drivers to replace it with my WBT-0800, the solder balls are extremely near to other solders on the mainboard, so just be careful to be fast to unmelt+suck them and replace.



Jsingh4 said:


> BTW what cable is that and I think you also follow hakuzen's cable page, so have you ever tried the UPOCC one which he recommends?


This is the exact same cable as Blox TM9/YIN  
I'm still a bit lazy for now doing cables by my own, so I did not found anything better than this cable which I really likes the "premium" look and its softness/flexibility. I just added an Y-splitter to look even more good.
Copper quality looks to be a normal/cheap one but (can't say precisely as I have no idea of the exact material used and Blox did not mentionned it either). Anyway it's better to have basic inculated PVC coated copper like this instead of those very basic and cheap OFC cables that we can find by many and which I don't like at all (even if for some, sound quality is the same for each cables).
My dream would be to make an UP-OCC or pure silver cable by my own. I currently have some ideas of material which I will use from @hakuzen post. But we calculated with hakuzen and doing a cable by himself is almost the same as buying it already made. The store is named Electro Acousti on aliexpress, recently have an issue with the seller (still didn't received my pure silver cable since 1 month now), waiting to fix this first before recommending it again on head-fi.


----------



## seanc6441 (Aug 13, 2019)

Jsingh4 said:


> Wow thanks for the super review I am glad that I asked otherwise I would have missed a gem.
> BTW what cable is that and I think you also follow hakuzen's cable page, so have you ever tried the UPOCC one which he recommends?


I have that cable, the copper litz UPOCC 4 core version. It's very clear-clean and pronounces the soundstage and imaging. It doesn't emphasis the low end or low mids like my thicker copper cable. It simply sounds neutral-balanced.

I removed the plastic earhook on mine

 

Simply gorgeous looking and built to a high standard with solid plugs and lovely wood/chromed metal finish.


----------



## KevDzn

subwoof3r said:


> The sound is exceptionnal, truely a "TOTL" one, many DIY potentials with some kind of shell mods.



Sounds like an excellent driver to get for diy. Thanks for the heads-up.


----------



## robar

HungryPanda said:


> Tonight's little build


This looks really comfy! I've actually wanted to make something like this for a while, I mean a 15.4mm driver with the smallest possible shell. I actually ordered a really cheap set of buds as a donor, and I just happened to see that you've already built something with it. Is it 15.4mm compatible ootb or you had to glue/modify something? I read that you used some sort of „sweet vocal drivers” with it, do you remember where to find them? Sorry for the many questions 
this is the shell I'm talking about
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32903306888.html


----------



## HungryPanda

I have made a few earbuds using that little iem. The one I just made is the rear of an iem shell. I had messed up a driver trying to take the front cover off as it is glued . That was the only way to get a driver to fit the iem. I just decided to ditch the front and a 15.4mm driver just fitted. I haven't even glued it as it fit snugly.

￡23  5%OFF | 15.4mm speaker unit sweet vocal 32ohms 10pcs
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/okZotdWnv.    These are the drivers I used


----------



## robar

Thanks  
About the mx500 driver I linked yesterday and you've used recently - I think this should be the new version of the regular EMX500 drivers. I don't have a stock emx500 earbud but it's quite possible that these are exactly the same units, at least they look the same.
This is what I linked: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979009902.html
This is said to be original emx500, if you scroll down there is a comparison between old and new version, new version looks the same as the one above: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32855076228.html


----------



## KevDzn

Re-cabled my Red Vido over the weekend with a TRN 8 Core upgrade cable (the one with some wires not soldered) which I took apart.
Compared to stock the mids and treble are more forward while the bass is cleaner and less bleed.


----------



## subwoof3r

KevDzn said:


> Re-cabled my Red Vido over the weekend with a TRN 8 Core upgrade cable (the one with some wires not soldered) which I took apart.
> Compared to stock the mids and treble are more forward while the bass is cleaner and less bleed.


Isn't that a 4 core ?


----------



## KevDzn (Aug 21, 2019)

Yes, you're right, that's only 4 core. The balance 4 core is for re-cabling in the future.


----------



## robar

Have you tried shells like this for diy projects? I have this bud and I really don't like the sound nor the apple-style front, but the shell itself is pretty nice and small. This bud appears to a pretty popular oem design as it's sold under dozens of brand names. I wonder if a flat head driver could be snapped on.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32894965305.html


----------



## assassin10000

Thinking about doing my first diy build. I came across these shells, anyone here used them before?

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000100206002.html

 


I was considering swapping my yuin pk2 drivers into them. Buy maybe instead I'll buy some others. Just not sure which ones to buy. Any recommendations?

I prefer a balanced or neutral signature. But not too forward or bright. A slight L-shape is also ok as long as it's bass/sub-bass focused. Something just laid back enough for all day listening at regular listening volumes.


----------



## DBaldock9

assassin10000 said:


> Thinking about doing my first diy build. I came across these shells, anyone here used them before?
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000100206002.html
> 
> ...



After looking at the different views of those shells, I'm curious about how & where you solder the wires on those jacks?


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 22, 2019)

DBaldock9 said:


> After looking at the different views of those shells, I'm curious about how & where you solder the wires on those jacks?



Looks like it has thread in mmcx connectors to me.

I messaged the seller, waiting to confirm.


----------



## DBaldock9

assassin10000 said:


> Looks like it has thread in mmcx connectors to me.



I guess the shell is threaded the full length of the MMCX jack, and doesn't require a nut on the inside.
After soldering the wires on, I'd use some lightweight glue on the MMCX threads, so that the jack doesn't come unscrewed from the shell.


----------



## assassin10000

DBaldock9 said:


> I guess the shell is threaded the full length of the MMCX jack, and doesn't require a nut on the inside.
> After soldering the wires on, I'd use some lightweight glue on the MMCX threads, so that the jack doesn't come unscrewed from the shell.



I don't think that will be an issue. Worst case scenario I have blue locktite.


----------



## robar (Aug 23, 2019)

Do you know any cheap but good quality TPE cables (or at least not pvc) on Aliexpress? (Somewhere around 2.5-4usd, which would be an upgrade from brown kz cable) Most of the listings either don't specify the material or the cable is PVC, which I want to avoid if possible. Thanks


----------



## subwoof3r

Not sure if it interests someone here but just received yesterday my new soldering iron, a "*Mini TS100*" (with TS-B2 tip).
I flashed almost immediately the famous custom frmware made by Ralim (*link*) for it.
All I can say is I'm just amazed by the performance of this professional iron, completely two different worlds between the one I used before and this TS100 !
Soldering is now a huge pleasure. Incredible precision (heat is really going to the end of tip, and real 2°C difference precision), intelligent sleep mode and auto turn off, makes this iron just essential. It will be for sure my best DIY friend for many years to come.
The custom firmware allows you much more features than the standard one. Highly recommended! (bought it from *HERE*).
@Merlin-PT (for info)


----------



## Merlin-PT (Aug 25, 2019)

Thanks for the additional info, I think the TS100 was recommended by @JackFlash .
Everytime I read about TS100, I wish to buy one, but I already have 4 irons now.
Does the TS100 handle gets warm or hot after some hours of use?
Ussualy this happens in all irons, I wonder if it's the same there or if the sleep function takes care of that.


----------



## subwoof3r

Merlin-PT said:


> Does the TS100 handle gets warm or hot after some hours of use?
> Ussualy this happens in all irons, I wonder if it's the same there or if the sleep function takes care of that.


Did not used it enough so can't say but so far no warm noticed for now. I just set my TS100 with 300°C as default working temp with a sleep time of 30 seconds to 80°C for idle, and auto power off at 8 minutes. I will probably adjust those values later, but where it is good is that with those kind of values you don't have to worry much about the tip lifetime 
Where I find this iron incredible is that the heat is really propagated at the end of the tip.
Also, the AC adapter that came with (output max up to ~19.9V) is very efficient and only takes couple of seconds to be at the right temperature once you take the iron again (thanks to the gyroscope + accelerometer), approximately 3 seconds from 80° to 300°, and could be even faster if using 24V (max supported).


----------



## HungryPanda

I have one in my aliexpress basket and will buy in the sale on the 28th, £3 off in the store and I have a $3 coupon


----------



## subwoof3r

New tonight fun mod (featuring the really good 32 ohm PET drivers (which are still my second favorite best drivers) 

Looking good on those wood shells, and they adjust perfectly (no need to fix them with any glue, they almost snap directly)
Also, the sound is extremely good on them! will keep them in this configuration for a while.


----------



## subwoof3r

And my yet best DIY that many of you begin to know 
(still featuring my favorite 130 ohm Beryllium drivers with my magic custom shells mod)
A black edition is already created, pictures soon!


----------



## flamesofarctica

Hi, a quick question. I've couple of earbuds I'd like to try my hand at recabling, so need a soldering iron, ideally with all the other bits you need (total novice). I don't want to spend too much. Loads of choice on Amazon but basically too much choice and I don't know if they're any good. Anyone have any recommendations? Btw I'm in the UK.


----------



## HungryPanda

Built 2 sets today with the 78 ohm drivers and replaced emx500 drivers in a pair of Kube V2's that had one bad driver:


----------



## KevDzn

Red mx shells.....nice. A good choice for colour.


----------



## subwoof3r

I have to agree that the red shell has something really special on its own


----------



## JackFlash

Merlin-PT said:


> Thanks for the additional info, I think the TS100 was recommended by @JackFlash .
> Everytime I read about TS100, I wish to buy one, but I already have 4 irons now.
> Does the TS100 handle gets warm or hot after some hours of use?
> Ussualy this happens in all irons, I wonder if it's the same there or if the sleep function takes care of that.



I actually don't have the TS100 myself but, as you know, it's a popular unit so you might have good luck with a Google search. I ended up going with a Quicko T12 and am very happy with it. For portability, though, looks like the various TS irons are just about the only game in town.


----------



## robar (Aug 27, 2019)

So I've taken apart a cheap apple-style earbud to find out whether I can convert it to flat-head. The metal shell is pretty nice and small, however my mx500 drivers (vido etc) are a bit too large. The difference is about 1mm, so not huge but simple snapping is out of question. Would a 14.8mm or 14.2mm driver snap on this shell in your opinion? Or do you have any tricks for adapting larger drivers to smaller shells?

I bought it from here, this is a pretty widespread oem design.  (unfortunately the back is closed, the vents are only decoration)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32894965305.html


----------



## HungryPanda

If the driver is too big for the shell, gluing the driver to the shell is an option. I use E8000 glue


----------



## robar

HungryPanda said:


> If the driver is too big for the shell, gluing the driver to the shell is an option. I use E8000 glue


Thanks, I wouldn't like to use glue because I'd like to experiment with different tunings, speakers, shell mods etc. I have no idea how the sound will turn out.


----------



## GREQ

I find hot glue is a reasonably good solution too, especially for modding, re-modding, re-tuning, re-cabling... it's a very forgiving glue.


----------



## robar (Aug 27, 2019)

In the meantime I've found a random earbud I saved from going to trash. It was a stock headset bundled with LG G2 mini phones. I believe this is a 14.8mm shell as I've seen something like this on Aliexpress advertised as pk. Its driver fits the small shell above really well, it doesn't snap but it doesn't wiggle and the glue residue holds it together, so I can try it out at least. I believe 14.8mm drivers should be the compatible then. The sound is of course pretty tinny at the moment because the driver itself is of bad quality. I'll research glue in the future (as the shell is metal so it's a bit harder) but for now I'll need a decent driver first.
this is the driver donor btw:
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/LG-Earphone...G-pro-Stylo-Vista-G2-Mini-G3-G4-/202698339637
here is an indentical shell from chitty store
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32989788140.html


----------



## GREQ

robar said:


> In the meantime I've found a random earbud I saved from going to trash. It was a stock headset bundled with LG G2 mini phones. I believe this is a 14.8mm shell as I've seen something like this on Aliexpress advertised as pk. Its driver fits the small shell above really well, it doesn't snap but it doesn't wiggle and the glue residue holds it together, so I can try it out at least. I believe 14.8mm drivers should be the compatible then. The sound is of course pretty tinny at the moment because the driver itself is of bad quality. I'll research glue in the future (as the shell is metal so it's a bit harder) but for now I'll need a decent driver first.
> this is the driver donor btw:
> https://www.ebay.ie/itm/LG-Earphone...G-pro-Stylo-Vista-G2-Mini-G3-G4-/202698339637
> here is an indentical shell from chitty store
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32989788140.html


I tried two very similar shells and both sounded pretty terrible. Upper mids and bass were very quiet compared to the heavy/thick upper-bass and lower-mids.
Treble response was just horribly messy and uneven.
I think it might not have enough venting, or the acoustic cavity is too small.


----------



## robar

GREQ said:


> I tried two very similar shells and both sounded pretty terrible. Upper mids and bass were very quiet compared to the heavy/thick upper-bass and lower-mids.
> Treble response was just horribly messy and uneven.
> I think it might not have enough venting, or the acoustic cavity is too small.


Which shell do you mean, the LG one or the small metal apple-style which I linked few posts above? I didn't want to use the LG one, it just saved the day because I don't have any other 14.8mm shells or drivers to check what fits the little metal shell


----------



## GREQ

robar said:


> Which shell do you mean, the LG one or the small metal apple-style which I linked few posts above? I didn't want to use the LG one, it just saved the day because I don't have any other 14.8mm shells or drivers to check what fits the little metal shell


Ah, sorry... I meant the LG bud.


----------



## robar

GREQ said:


> Ah, sorry... I meant the LG bud.


Yeah, I don't really like that shell nor the RY4C one, they are not comfortable for me and acoustically inferior too. Do you know any cheap 14.8mm drivers or earbuds for parts (under 4-5usd) which could be a good starting point for DIY? The best would be something like vido (cheap good value bud) but with 14.8mm format, so I'd have a reference point how the driver sounds in a proper shell. I've only found Faaeal Z sound and some cheap noname buds.


----------



## assassin10000

Ordered


robar said:


> Yeah, I don't really like that shell nor the RY4C one, they are not comfortable for me and acoustically inferior too. Do you know any cheap 14.8mm drivers or earbuds for parts (under 4-5usd) which could be a good starting point for DIY? The best would be something like vido (cheap good value bud) but with 14.8mm format, so I'd have a reference point how the driver sounds in a proper shell. I've only found Faaeal Z sound and some cheap noname buds.



The PK size 14.8mm drivers do not appear to be as plentiful and cheap as the more common mx500 size 15.4mm drivers.

That said I contacted the Chitty store a couple days ago on Aliexpress to find out if they sold the driver for their well regarded diy sr2 16ohm pk earbud. They linked me to this driver:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1666829407.html


----------



## ezzony

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_52


Could anyone comment on the link. Does it come with the drivers or is it just the housing? Or maybe a fake?


----------



## HungryPanda

No fake, full earbud and Chitty's store is genuine


----------



## golov17

ezzony said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_3,searchweb201603_52
> 
> 
> Could anyone comment on the link. Does it come with the drivers or is it just the housing? Or maybe a fake?


keep in mind that furukawa cable is very stiff


----------



## ezzony (Aug 28, 2019)

golov17 said:


> keep in mind that furukawa cable is very stiff



Oh -  don't think I'd like that, glad you mentioned it. Maybe I should just buy the drivers and choose a cable elsewhere? I wouldn't be looking for super-duper cable if you could recommend one...


----------



## robar

Have anybody tried drivers from CKLewis? I'm thinking about these (especially the diy pk2 and mx760 one):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969609452.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32908881669.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983216125.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32954897746.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32855076228.html


----------



## HungryPanda

I have used every one of those drivers and made good sounding earbuds. But if you buy them do not forget to buy tuning foams


----------



## robar (Aug 29, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I have used every one of those drivers and made good sounding earbuds. But if you buy them do not forget to buy tuning foams


Thanks, do you remember their sound signatures? I mean dark bassy, smooth flat, bright punchy etc. I know this depends on a lot of things but basically I search for something brighter than Vido and smoother than RY4S drivers. I'd like to experiment with different shells and in my experience anything except mx500 shells tend to be really dark and soft with vido drivers.


----------



## subwoof3r

Hiya everybody,
As promised, here is the Black Edition of my yet best DIY reference 
I think I even prefer it like this, compared to silver 

Btw, this idea trots me since some weeks already, but since I'm now extremely satisfied with my best mod and DIY reference MX500 earbuds (especially since 130 ohm beryllium drivers), I'm thinking to make my own line-up (only very very limited batch will be available)
Accomplishing this idea would be just a dream for me, as a real DIY enthusiast.
Time will tell.. 
Cheers'


----------



## Makahl

I got a Vido after 6 months! Actually I thought it was lost somewhere. Brazilian post-office always surprising me how fast it is, lol.

And you know... when you get a pair of Vidos your mind automatically says "recable it". But I thought this time if I play some old mods and retune it might it'll sound better. 

It's just a mix of VE ZEN 1 damping method (only 1 vent uncovered) and an old mod to increase sound-stage. 

I've started just removing the internal semicircular foam from the shell, and damping the driver itself instead. I did realize my tuning cotton-ish pieces get lost somewhere, then I've adapted it using 3M micropore stripes instead and adding it carefully using tweezers. The result:

 
That was the handy part.

The "wider sound-stage" mod is just covering the MX500 shell middle-hole with cotton, the original mod is using blu-tack but it tames the mids a bit too much for my taste. Cotton is just right IMO. 
 

And not it's playing incredible FUN! 


I liked that so much that I think I'll try the new DIY drivers. Such a fun thing DIYing earbuds!


----------



## subwoof3r

Nice work! Vido's are probably one of the funniest earbuds to play with, since they are not glued, so drivers can be opened very easily for any kind of maintenance/DIY.
I definitely need to grab red Vido's one day


----------



## robar

Makahl said:


> I got a Vido after 6 months! Actually I thought it was lost somewhere. Brazilian post-office always surprising me how fast it is, lol.
> 
> And you know... when you get a pair of Vidos your mind automatically says "recable it". But I thought this time if I play some old mods and retune it might it'll sound better.
> 
> ...



Nice! How did you remove the tuning foam from the shell? I tried but it's very messy and leaves a lot of residue that seems impossible to remove. Btw my blue vido is tuned differently compared to white and it does use some glue to fix the driver to the shell because it has so much foam inside that it can't snap on well. 
Anyway, has anyone tried to upgrade Qian69 drivers? I really like the shell but not huge fan of the sound. I think a better driver would make it a killer earbud. (for example with something recommended here like carbon 32ohm) I heard that recabling is quite complicated though.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Nice! How did you remove the tuning foam from the shell? I tried but it's very messy and leaves a lot of residue that seems impossible to remove.


Personally, I'm using *those precision tweezers* to gently remove the residues (takes me approx 10 minutes per drivers for a perfect work), beware to not let fall off the end of the tweezer into holes while cleaning! (otherwise you could damage your driver)


----------



## robar

subwoof3r said:


> Personally, I'm using *those precision tweezers* to gently remove the residues (takes me approx 10 minutes per drivers for a perfect work), beware to not let fall off the end of the tweezer into holes while cleaning! (otherwise you could damage your driver)


Thanks, but if I understand correctly you are speaking about removing foam from the driver itself. In Vido the foam is glued onto the shell vents, and the residue is in every little corner and crevice of the soft plastic. I tried with small tweezers and utility knives etc but I can't remove it without damaging the plastic.


----------



## Makahl

robar said:


> Nice! How did you remove the tuning foam from the shell? I tried but it's very messy and leaves a lot of residue that seems impossible to remove. Btw my blue vido is tuned differently compared to white and it does use some glue to fix the driver to the shell because it has so much foam inside that it can't snap on well.



Indeed, it's a bit tricky to clean it completely, probably an easier solution would be just using a new MX500 shell instead. But in this case, when I took it off there were just really tiny residues left so I didn't mind that much. I think a toothbrush + warm water would be enough to take it off, though.


----------



## assassin10000

Well, looks like I've got parts I won't be using.

The 14.8mm driver shells I ordered... don't actually fit 14.8mm drivers .


----------



## HungryPanda

They do with glue


----------



## subwoof3r

Glad to present you my yet first ever MX760 attempt 
(blue shells + high quality 32 ohm drivers) ⚡️

They are very comfortable (better fit than MX500 shells) 
Very pleased with the result (both look and sound)


----------



## GREQ

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Qigom-MX500...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

If this even helps one person, then so be it - Avoid these drivers. Worse than even Vido drivers. 
Bass physically starts crapping out and HEAVILY distorting before getting nice and low. Especially loud bass on electronic music just sounds like farts.
Same with both drivers, so doesn't seem to be a set of faulty drivers, since they're identical.
Midrange and treble are totally fine - actually kinda great, which is the real strange/sad thing about these.

Tested on various sources, so it's extremely unlikely to be an issue with output impedance.


----------



## assassin10000

assassin10000 said:


> Well, looks like I've got parts I won't be using.
> 
> The 14.8mm driver shells I ordered... don't actually fit 14.8mm drivers .




Verified dimensions, I'm guessing not machined properly (instead of being meant for different size drivers).

 

 




HungryPanda said:


> They do with glue



True. But I'd rather not as I want to be able to try different drivers first.

Got some SR2 16ohm & pk1 150ohm (red film) drivers to try.


----------



## HungryPanda

These drivers have made one of the best sounding earbuds I have ever made. I used them in an Oppo A8 shell. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32866228054.html


----------



## robar

I've received one of the random extremely cheap buds today, which I ordered for diy experiments. Here's the link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887035677.html
Do you have any experience with them? I had to destroy the drivers to take it apart, but luckily it accepts 15.4mm drivers. It'll need a bit of glue for the final build but it snaps enough for testing purposes. The biggest advantage of this shell is that it's really small, roughly the same size as Qian39, but the thinner stem and deeper fit makes it even more comfortable. (especially for sleeping etc) For testing I just slammed in below average quality ry4x drivers without any additional tuning. The sound is clean but of course it lacks subbass and quite boxy at the moment. Do you have any tips how to decrease boxiness with tuning/shell mods etc?


----------



## robar

Compared to Qian39 shell


----------



## HungryPanda

Try putting some tape over the holes at the back of the shell on the inside


----------



## robar (Sep 14, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> Try putting some tape over the holes at the back of the shell on the inside


Thanks, I'll try that as well. What kind of tape do you mean, something like masking tape or sellotape? Btw I put an additional horseshoe on the drivers plus I filled the inside of shell with scrap foam and it sounds pretty balanced now. I think I need a better driver to improve the sound significantly, as the bud sounds ok now, it just lacks extension and dynamics, the two main weaknesses of the ry4x driver. I'll try with vido tomorrow, if I can improve bass and highs, plus bring up the mids around 2k a bit, it will be quite decent.


----------



## HungryPanda

I used a small piece of electrical tape in some of mine or the centre piece of the horse shoe foam


----------



## robar (Sep 15, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I used a small piece of electrical tape in some of mine or the centre piece of the horse shoe foam


Thanks! I tried the vido driver, and with huge amount of foam in the shell, I could clean up the boxiness. However bass starts to roll off as early as 200hz and it sounds quite anemic from 125hz. This is the first time I hear a vido driver sounding thin  Is there a way to increase bass extension, like drilling holes etc, or a brighter cleaner driver would solve the problem? The shell basically slides the bass response towards 250-400hz and sucks out 2k. With a lot of damping I could fairly smooth out everything, except bass extension.


----------



## robar

Do you know what's the difference (if any) between putting horshoe foam on the vents (like vido) versus putting directly on the driver?


----------



## HungryPanda

It's all about experimenting, try both with nothing else and see


----------



## robar (Sep 17, 2019)

I've opened up the Fengru Silver (tc200) to see what's inside, potentially for modding (reducing v shape plus improve low bass, or shell swap). Do you know what driver is this? A bit looks like diy mx500 on ali, but colored differently and supposedly 16ohm versus 32.
Opening up was fairly straightforward with little bit of hairdryer, but the driver itself was a bit glued to the shell, so the front cover came loose for a sec. I should be more careful next time, I'm quite scared of detached covers because I managed to ruin vido drivers with that.


----------



## robar (Sep 17, 2019)

I don't recommend tc200 for diy projects, one of the drivers died on me when I opened up the shell. The circuit/magnet part was glued on the shell somehow, so when I took off the front the driver got separated, the circuit/magnet stayed in the shell while the membrane and coil remained in the grille and got damaged. :/ Interestingly, I didn't have this problem with the other half, it was pretty easy to open it and stayed intact just fine. Maybe some manufacturing inconsistency caused the excessive glue on the died one


----------



## silverfishla (Sep 18, 2019)

Pliobond is the glue that you should get to mate driver and shell.  Works great.  Just in case, since I’ve seen other forms of glue floating around.
Edit: it goes on liquid and becomes tacky, then turns into a rubber seal.  Squeeze out can be peeled off or rubbed off.  Very clean bond.


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 19, 2019)

I succeed my first retermination to 2.5mm balanced TRRS ⚡️ Very pleased with the result, balanced FTW!
Thank you @hakuzen & @HungryPanda for the hints! much appreciated


----------



## Merlin-PT (Sep 19, 2019)

silverfishla said:


> Pliobond is the glue that you should get to mate driver and shell.  Works great.  Just in case, since I’ve seen other forms of glue floating around.
> Edit: it goes on liquid and becomes tacky, then turns into a rubber seal.  Squeeze out can be peeled off or rubbed off.  Very clean bond.



I saw a youtube video to see how Pliobond looked like and it looks like Patex that I have here, but I don't know if it's equivalent.
I never tried to glue the drivers before and didn't knew what to use, so the only one time I needed to glue a vido driver that was separated from the membrane, I used thin varnish, because it looked like that some kind of varnish was already used in the drivers. Patex would be too think and the varnish I used is thin like water (very low viscocity), doesn't occupy space. I was worried if it would react with the membrane, but had no problem.

To glue both parts of the plastic housing, I was thinking of using some kind of weak thread/nut locker, there are several strengths, the weak one is designed to glue, but also to unglue with weak force. It looks like some kind of thin varnish. Still I never used it, because all my housings close well without glue, so I don't know what is the best.


----------



## HungryPanda

E8000 is the glue that I use on all my earbud projects


----------



## Merlin-PT (Sep 19, 2019)

I have several of those AliE glues in cart to try (for different uses), but didn't knew what to order first.
I'll order that one first. Thanks.


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 21, 2019)

Personally I'm using cyanolit (cyanoacrylate) glue, especially for MMCX PIN sockets, does the trick very well, but once its dry, its impossible to remove after. So I have to make other shells with other PIN sockets (which is sad, considering MMCX socket prices on ali)


----------



## assassin10000

subwoof3r said:


> Personally I'm using cyanolit (cyanoacrylate) glue, especially for MMCX PIN sockets, does the trick very well, but once its dry, its impossible to remove after. So I have to make other shells with other PIN sockets (which is sad, considering MMCX socket prices on ali)



I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's been mentioned that the off gassing or exothermic reaction from that glue can damage diaphragms. (By slater or hungrypanda iirc?)

Anyone here able to confirm?


I've been trying to decide on an adhesive myself, current choices are: e8000, pva or now pliobond.


----------



## HungryPanda (Sep 21, 2019)

I personally would not recommend super glue. E8000 is best E7000 is a little bit more pliable and used more for phone and dap repairs


----------



## subwoof3r

*E8000* (15ml) ordered! 
thanks for your recommendations


----------



## subwoof3r

btw, if I may suggest, another of my great tools is *THIS* solder sucker (*ENGINEER SS-02*)
I'm using it now since few weeks. This is one of the best (if not the best) solder sucker ever made.
Greatly finished (100% made in japan) and sucking power is just incredible. A real pleasure to use this tool for every of my DIY projects. I tried cheaper solder sucker in the past and its night and day difference. The only cons is the price but it really worth it. Highly recommended from me


----------



## endia

subwoof3r said:


> btw, if I may suggest, another of my great tools is *THIS* solder sucker (*ENGINEER SS-02*)
> I'm using it now since few weeks. This is one of the best (if not the best) solder sucker ever made.
> Greatly finished (100% made in japan) and sucking power is just incredible. A real pleasure to use this tool for every of my DIY projects. I tried cheaper solder sucker in the past and its night and day difference. The only cons is the price but it really worth it. Highly recommended from me


I've been using this one for two years and never look back. totally different level to me.. but it was half the price at the time..

US $42.20 | WALFRONT 30W 220V 50Hz Electric Vacuum Solder Sucker /Desoldering Pump / Iron Gun
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/Ob0l7R2o


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 22, 2019)

If it can help I just made (for myself) a balanced TRRS plug schema, hope it will help some of you in case of need 
(sorry for the lunashop watermark, but I found the position of the plug very good to show)


----------



## DBaldock9

I've recently updated my reference sheet - 
.

 
.
Also uploaded PDF version.


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 22, 2019)

Just bought another pair of PK1 150 ohm red film original drivers. Very pleased with my current best PK mod, I would like try with incoming Docomo shells


----------



## silverfishla

subwoof3r said:


> btw, if I may suggest, another of my great tools is *THIS* solder sucker (*ENGINEER SS-02*)
> I'm using it now since few weeks. This is one of the best (if not the best) solder sucker ever made.
> Greatly finished (100% made in japan) and sucking power is just incredible. A real pleasure to use this tool for every of my DIY projects. I tried cheaper solder sucker in the past and its night and day difference. The only cons is the price but it really worth it. Highly recommended from me


This is the greatest solder sucker ever!  I have one and I love it!!


----------



## JackFlash

Everything that Engineer makes is drool worthy!


----------



## robar

HungryPanda said:


> These drivers have made one of the best sounding earbuds I have ever made. I used them in an Oppo A8 shell. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32866228054.html


Are these drivers (and shells) really 15mm and not 14.8 or 15.4? I've seen some 15mm driver listings in the past  but for a long time I believed that those are just vague specs as usual from aliexpress sellers. However I've encountered multiple shells recently which are too big for 14.8mm but too small for 15.4mm. For example this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32903306888.html 
If I remember correctly you've already tried this shell, will these snap on 15mm drivers without glue in your opinion?


----------



## HungryPanda

I had to glue the driver to that shell


----------



## assassin10000

Finally made my first DIY earbuds. Had to modify the housing I got to fit the 14.8mm speakers.

Used a flat file to shorten the housing/lip, then a dremel to reduce the diameter and bevel the inside edge. PITA.

Originals on left, modified on right.



Contacted the 'Chitty store' on AE which sells the popular PK shell DIY SR2 16ohm buds, to ask if they sold the driver. They sent me a link, so I ordered them.

 


Housings came out pretty good, they are friction fit. No glue necessary.

 

Got them burning in, as these drivers are reported to need 100+ hours burn in.


----------



## assassin10000

Finished making version 2 tonight. Using the red film 150ohm diy pk1 driver.


----------



## silverfishla

JackFlash said:


> Everything that Engineer makes is drool worthy!


Where do I find other Engineer products?  I want to take a looksy!


----------



## DBaldock9

silverfishla said:


> Where do I find other Engineer products?  I want to take a looksy!



http://engineertool.wixsite.com/engineerintl/home


----------



## subwoof3r

To the specialists of *E8000* glue here, two little questions  :

how much time generally it takes to dry ? (especially to be safe enough to plug/unplug MMCX PINs mods from shells)
is that glue easy to remove for drivers glued with it with a airdryer ? or will it be fixed for ever ?
Many thanks in advance


----------



## HungryPanda

E8000 dries very quickly and is easy to break, E7000 is more rubbery and used more for cell phone repair. Please never repair with superglue


----------



## subwoof3r

HungryPanda said:


> E8000 dries very quickly and is easy to break, E7000 is more rubbery and used more for cell phone repair. Please never repair with superglue


Ok thanks for the advice, appreciated 
btw just received today my E8000 (15ml), looks very good glue and quality, thanks for your recommendation


----------



## BBGirl

amazing stuff, to get that deep into it you must have great eyes........ and ears lol


----------



## assassin10000

So, just pulled my v1 earbuds off burn-in. 

With the tuning foam I bought over the vent holes it is very clean/clear but bass rolls off early in thr midhbass or low mids. Sounds like my ACG, but with even less bass. Without the foam it has bass, but has way too much mid-bass.

Any tuning tips on how to reduce mid-bass but keep the bass & sub-bass?


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 30, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> So, just pulled my v1 earbuds off burn-in.
> 
> With the tuning foam I bought over the vent holes it is very clean/clear but bass rolls off early in thr midhbass or low mids. Sounds like my ACG, but with even less bass. Without the foam it has bass, but has way too much mid-bass.
> 
> Any tuning tips on how to reduce mid-bass but keep the bass & sub-bass?


Maybe try different medical adhesive tapes as they have all different porous, this is what I did in my yet best PK shell, the sound is much affected depending on how those tapes are "breathing" (not sure if I'm clear enough?)
Generally, the more you have holes (or enlarge a single hole) into shells and the more you will have a little more of sub-bass but especially mid-bass impact and less sibilance in the highs while mids generally stays almost the same.
Depending on drivers used, it can be a good trick to try. Sometimes I still don't have the right balanced sound to my ears so generally I prefer to use other drivers (if equalizer is not enough).


----------



## assassin10000

subwoof3r said:


> Maybe try different medical adhesive tapes as they have all different porous, this is what I did in my yet best PK shell, the sound is much affected depending on how those tapes are "breathing" (not sure if I'm clear enough?)
> Generally, the more you have holes (or enlarge a single hole) into shells and the more you will have a little more of sub-bass but especially mid-bass impact and less sibilance in the highs while mids generally stays almost the same.
> Depending on drivers used, it can be a good trick to try. Sometimes I still don't have the right balanced sound to my ears so generally I prefer to use other drivers (if equalizer is not enough).



Awesome, thanks. I'll stop by the store and grab some porous tape to try. Makes sense to me, the more airflow there is, the more the diaphram will move. Problem was it was either too much or too little flow, so basically I've got to find a sweet spot.

I don't think the driver will be an issue, as I think it's the same one you used on your best yet pk bud (red film 150ohm pk1 driver).

Ever experiment with housing fillers like cotton, acoustic poly fill, etc.? 


Yeah, since I'm tuning it I'm going to try and get it as close to ideal sounding (to me) without EQ. Then EQ for fine tuning once I've gotten there.


----------



## subwoof3r (Sep 30, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Awesome, thanks. I'll stop by the store and grab some porous tape to try. Makes sense to me, the more airflow there is, the more the diaphram will move. Problem was it was either too much or too little flow, so basically I've got to find a sweet spot.
> 
> I don't think the driver will be an issue, as I think it's the same one you used on your best yet pk bud (red film 150ohm pk1 driver).


Definitely, 14.8mm 150ohm pk1 driver has a lot of tuning potential. Probably even better results than EMX500 shells and their 15.4mm drivers.



assassin10000 said:


> Ever experiment with housing fillers like cotton, acoustic poly fill, etc.?


I really would like to give a try but I have no idea on where I could order those material stuffs, otherwise it was also my plan  I'm sure it will anyway respond better in headphones due to the huge space, compared to earbuds shells but who know?


----------



## robar (Oct 3, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Glad to present you my yet first ever MX760 attempt
> (blue shells + high quality 32 ohm drivers) ⚡️
> 
> They are very comfortable (better fit than MX500 shells)
> Very pleased with the result (both look and sound)



I can also vouch for this mx760 set, it does sound really good for a 5usd small shell thing. I'm using it without any additional tuning foam at the moment (because I don't have any atm and other foams/tapes didn't work), and it sounds like a smoother, cleaner, somewhat brighter/thinner Qian69. It's not perfect of course but does the bright/balanced signature quite well and while the bass and highs are rolled off mildly (somewhat similarly but in a cleaner more linear way than qian69) they extend nicely especially above 10k. So the highs are rich while not peaky or exaggerated at all. The bass has quite good impact and linearity for a small shell earbud, I would say it only starts to roll off below 100hz but in a nice smooth way. It doesn't have the 50-60hz presence of mx500 buds of course but I would say it's still nice and musical for most genres. The cable hole was very small so I had to drill it and there is no place for a knot inside so the cable is friction protected only. It would be interesting to try this driver in a dp100 shell, sadly they are very pricey at aliexpress.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32960995932.html
But I've found the mx500 equivalent of this driver (at least I'm 90% sure as the description and the looks are the same just the front cover is different) Have anyone tried this? I'd imagine these drivers sound even better in a bigger shell. If they give bigger bass and more linear upper midrange they would be awesome.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978515836.html


----------



## robar (Oct 5, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> New tonight fun mod (featuring the really good 32 ohm PET drivers (which are still my second favorite best drivers)
> 
> Looking good on those wood shells, and they adjust perfectly (no need to fix them with any glue, they almost snap directly)
> Also, the sound is extremely good on them! will keep them in this configuration for a while.


Exactly which drivers are those? I'm a bit lost haha, I've found only 35 ohm pet drivers mentioned in the thread.
I'm actually thinking about trying these out, are these the same or something different? (look like some variant of the mx760 driver we used by the way)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980742390.html
other listing with more info (notice they used exactly the same frequency graph as our mx760, like  with the traditional mx500 style variant I posted recently, but this is listed as N50 magnet not N52)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33027995148.html


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Exactly which drivers are those? I'm a bit lost haha, I've found only 35 ohm pet drivers mentioned in the thread.
> I'm actually thinking about trying these out, are these the same or something different? (look like some variant of the mx760 driver we used by the way)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980742390.html
> other listing with more info (notice they used exactly the same frequency graph as our mx760, like  with the traditional mx500 style variant I posted recently, but this is listed as N50 magnet not N52)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33027995148.html


Here you go : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32766546908.html


----------



## robar

subwoof3r said:


> Here you go : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32766546908.html


Ah thanks, so the 35ohm then.  I wishlisted it, sadly too much for me at the moment, I'll wait for some sale or maybe I can find it for less money somewhere else. (driver prices tend to fluctuate a lot between sellers)


----------



## assassin10000

subwoof3r said:


> Definitely, 14.8mm 150ohm pk1 driver has a lot of tuning potential. Probably even better results than EMX500 shells and their 15.4mm drivers.
> 
> 
> I really would like to give a try but I have no idea on where I could order those material stuffs, otherwise it was also my plan  I'm sure it will anyway respond better in headphones due to the huge space, compared to earbuds shells but who know?



Cool. Still working on tuning my 150ohm redfilm pair. The 16ohm sr2 driver tuning is pretty much done.

As far as materiels go, for cotton I just take some from a cotton ball. I may cut up an earbud foam for material too (haven't tried yet). 

Poly fill is probably going to be harder, as you will probably have to buy a larger quantity. It's usually sold for subwoofer enclosures iirc. It also may be too coarse for use in earbuds.


----------



## subwoof3r (Oct 6, 2019)

assassin10000 said:


> Cool. Still working on tuning my 150ohm redfilm pair. The 16ohm sr2 driver tuning is pretty much done.
> 
> As far as materiels go, for cotton I just take some from a cotton ball. I may cut up an earbud foam for material too (haven't tried yet).
> 
> Poly fill is probably going to be harder, as you will probably have to buy a larger quantity. It's usually sold for subwoofer enclosures iirc. It also may be too coarse for use in earbuds.



Here is the exact medical cotton I'm using in my yet best PK mod for the vents :





I decided to steal some more centimeters from the family medical box 
This thing is my best porous tape so far for PK vents. But it's very tricky to do it, because you need the porous lines to be aligned horizontally and match vents perfectly (while keep them not stretched at the same time) to have almost identical sound coming from L and R shells. Sometimes you need few tries before it's getting perfect.

Once it's perfect, it should look like this :


----------



## assassin10000

subwoof3r said:


> Here is the exact medical cotton I'm using in my yet best PK mod for the vents :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll have to find some and try it.


This is what I bought, also known as micropore tape:


----------



## homerograco

Has anybody used the Foster Electric MT009B (9mm) successfully? I got some in the mail today and want to make some earbuds or IEMs case they're too small.


----------



## robar (Oct 10, 2019)

@subwoof3r  I solved the knot-problem with the mx760! I took apart the B40 today and installed its cable into the mx760, it looks and fits quite nice, but it slipped quite easily through the stem so I had to come up with a fixing mechanism. The B40 cable is braided and that was the key to the solution:  two small knots instead of one big!  So I separated the twisted lines near the driver and made a knot on each sub line separately. This way they fit nicely in the shell while protecting the driver so I don't have to be scared all the time of pulling the cable accidentally 
Also I've found a really great synergy with trig rain donut foams and this mx760, right now this is my favorite sound of my collection. It brings up the bass and keeps the clarity of highs, creating a good balance for my ears. (I need thick foams for this shell and a full foam muffles the sound too much for my taste) It still has some brightness on the upper mids but it's manageable only peaks slightly when heavy echo effect or distortion is present in the music. Plus there is some warmth to the bass/mids similar to Qian69. If a thin tuning foam would slightly flatten out the profile it would be even better, I hope I'll get my pack in the near future. I already very much prefer this to RY4S UE for example, much more natural vocals/instruments without the excessive brightness/thinness. It's also better than the uneven somewhat messy upper half of Qian69 (overall similar sound signature but mx760 sounds richer airier). I can really sit down and just enjoy the music with this one. My only real problem now is the comfort, sadly these shells start to hurt my ears in less than an hour, maybe I really need to buy a dp100 shell haha


----------



## assassin10000

@subwoof3r 

I picked up some of the medipore tape today. It's decently porous but harder to work with than the micropore tape. Given how stretchy it is.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> So I separated the twisted lines near the driver and made a knot on each sub line separately.


Nice idea, depending on the wires thickness, it could be a great idea!
Those MX760 drivers look having much distortion at "high" volume, you are right. I did not spend much time with my MX760 mod since, but for the price it's still one of those hard to beat 



assassin10000 said:


> @subwoof3r
> 
> I picked up some of the medipore tape today. It's decently porous but harder to work with than the micropore tape. Given how stretchy it is.


Yup, very stretchy I confirm, need to be extremely meticulous while cutting parts and put phase. Remember to keep original stretch while you put and keep the horizontal porous line for excellent result. If you hear some sound/volume difference from L and R sides, then the tapes should not be identical.


----------



## robar (Oct 10, 2019)

@subwoof3r  Yep I got lucky with the B40 cable because it's fairly thin this method works perfectly in this case. Here is a photo I think it matches the shell pretty well visually:

@HungryPanda I've seen your feedback on a driver listing I'm interested in. Do you have any impressions on these, like what kind of sound signature they have and how good is the overall sound? (for example compared with emx500 drivers) I'm planning to buy one pair from an another listing if it's good.
your comment is here
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32832049912.html
this is what I plan to buy
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980742390.html


----------



## HungryPanda

I like the drivers I bought


----------



## robar (Oct 10, 2019)

Has anyone tried these shells in diy projects? I have two pairs and the fit is very good in my ears plus they accept 15.4mm drivers.  If someone managed to create good sound with these I'd be interested what kind of drivers/tuning are ideal.


----------



## robar (Oct 16, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Nice idea, depending on the wires thickness, it could be a great idea!
> Those MX760 drivers look having much distortion at "high" volume, you are right. I did not spend much time with my MX760 mod since, but for the price it's still one of those hard to beat
> .


I measured the frequency response and the problematic area is typical of small shell earbuds, with a little EQ it can be easily smoothed out: pull down the 3k-6k range by a couple of dB, especially around 3.5-5k. Plus a small boost below 100hz and slight decrease around 200-300hz will help the bass to become tighter more focused.
Actually this 3-6k range is my most common problem with earbuds, it would be awesome if some kind of physical mod could target this area in isolation  yes I know tuning foams help, but often they're not enough or have unwanted side effects, I'll experiment further.
I'm really impressed with the extension and linearity of this mx760 from 9-10k upwards, this is what truly sets it apart in my collection. Amazing rich and realistic upper treble, airy and immersive. By the way below 1.5k the frequency response is almost indentical to Qian69 and they do sound very similar.
I ordered virtually the same driver in mx500 configuration so it'll be interesting to see the differences in a bigger more capable shell.


----------



## robar

Another question: is it possible that RY4S UE has EMX500 drivers? I've just opened mine and they look exactly the same as aliexpress listings of emx500, but I don't have those to compare directly. The tuning is a simple horseshoe foam similar to vido, nothing special the drivers are bare.


----------



## HungryPanda

I would not be at all surprised but I do not have the UE version to check


----------



## robar (Oct 11, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I would not be at all surprised but I do not have the UE version to check


I could take photos but they really look exactly the same, I have a pair of emx500 speakers on the way so I can compare them when they arrive

I put the ry4s ue drivers into a white vido shell and they gained a character similar to vido - V-shaped sound with heavy-hitting bass and recessed lower mids, but the treble response remained quite similar to the original so still bright and clear. These tuning foams do matter a lot! Not my favorite sound signature but it's quite good for a punchy v-shape character. I plan to try these drivers in the meizu shell as well (which I posted above)


----------



## endia

subwoof3r said:


> *15.4mm 130 ohm beryllium drivers : *
> They are for now my new favorite/reference and king of any drivers I found for now since I DIY. I just ordered a backup pair since few days already.
> The sound is exceptionnal, truely a "TOTL" one, many DIY potentials with some kind of shell mods.
> Sound is extremely transparent, fun and natural, with a nice touch of warm. Thanks to its dark (not cold) background and presensation, the soundstage is incredibly deep (and large when it needs to be), instrument separation at its top notch level.
> ...



wow! and yes;
it is exactly how you described.. totally agree with all of them.


----------



## robar (Oct 16, 2019)

Do you know how to remove printed text from shells? I have a blue vido shell in which I put RY4S UE drivers and it sounds fantastic. (the y cable version of blue vido which is tuned flat - edit: thicker tuning foam inside) But the white Vido print bothers me. The shell has a glossy finish which might complicate things and I dont have a spare one to test chemicals.Thanks!


----------



## robar

Have you tried these shells for diy? I wonder if they can snap on mx500 or mx760/dp100 drivers. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32839983390.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32883981692.html


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Have you tried these shells for diy? I wonder if they can snap on mx500 or mx760/dp100 drivers.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32839983390.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32883981692.html


Interesting, looks like Edifier H180/185 shells that I really enjoyed few years ago (I have two pairs).
I almost destroyed one pair once I was training to remove drivers from shells, lol, so maybe I will give a try! didn't know they were snapping perfectly 15.4mm drivers


----------



## SiggyFraud

robar said:


> Do you know how to remove printed text from shells? I have a blue vido shell in which I put RY4S UE drivers and it sounds fantastic. (the y cable version of blue vido which is tuned flat) But the white Vido print bothers me. The shell has a glossy finish which might complicate things and I dont have a spare one to test chemicals.Thanks!


I use nail polish remover to get rid of the print and a buffing block to bring back the glossy finish.


----------



## robar (Oct 16, 2019)

Can DP100 shells snap on mx500 drivers? Or they can only accept mx760/dp100 covers by default?

By the way I've just checked out NSC Audio store on aliexpress where I've bought the mx760 set and they put out a lot of really good deals!
Just a small selection that caught my attention:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000247263113.html (5pairs of transparent dp100 shell under 5usd)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000250922044.html (maybe these are the same 19-21khz "carbon" drivers @HungryPanda  recommended?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000220039317.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000230474907.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000173977762.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000220132187.html

Also some other nice listings I've found recently, in case it helps somebody:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32990395829.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000039814518.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000214445948.html



subwoof3r said:


> Interesting, looks like Edifier H180/185 shells that I really enjoyed few years ago (I have two pairs).
> I almost destroyed one pair once I was training to remove drivers from shells, lol, so maybe I will give a try! didn't know they were snapping perfectly 15.4mm drivers


I dont know what they can snap on that's why I'm asking. 



SiggyFraud said:


> I use nail polish remover to get rid of the print and a buffing block to bring back the glossy finish.


Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> I dont know what they can snap on that's why I'm asking.


Oops sorry, thought it was an affirmation, I misreaded


----------



## robar (Oct 16, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Oops sorry, thought it was an affirmation, I misreaded


Well you could try it if you have a spare one, and tell me afterwards  It would be nice if it could snap on the mx760 driver for example, maybe even tame the upper mids a bit. This is the reason I'm thinking about dp100 shells too. These form factors are usually offer a good fit for outdoors and the big shell + deep position usually adds a bit extra warmth/depth to the sound. 
I've put Vido drivers in the meizu shell and tuned it to sound warm/balanced with medical tape temporarily. Very good fit and pleasant non offensive sound for long term listening/walking outdoors.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Well you could try it if you have a spare one, and tell me afterwards  It would be nice if it could snap on the mx760 driver for example


Ok I'll keep that in mind with my others fun DIY misc stuffs to do. I stay you tuned


----------



## subwoof3r (Oct 17, 2019)

I made some DIY new experiment yesterday, I swapped the original PK2 drivers from the *DIY PK2 Docomo* that I received 3 days ago, and placed original 150 ohm PK1 red film drivers instead. With stock foams on the shells, I can confirm that the PK1 drivers are clearly a true upgrade from PK2 drivers (without any surprise). Better imaging and instrument separation, overall clarity and details, more grainy mids, etc.
But when it comes to bass area, I feel that the PK2 drivers are better (for those who wants more). PK1 bass is tight and clean, while the PK2 is more punchy and present, especially in mid-bass impact. Mids and highs are more smoothed out in PK2 drivers, but they performs really good too. I still believe that the original PK2 drivers included in the DIY from Chitty's store is already the best and good choice for Docomo shells, while PK1 drivers performs better in original PK shells. My advice is that It's better to keep that configuration then and do some fun mods into Docomo shells directly than trying to swap drivers.
I really enjoy the form of the Docomo shells, as they sits very well and stays in place into my ears. A nice discover!


----------



## KevDzn

If i'm not mistaken these docomos variants and the pk2 docomos came free with their DoCoMo mobile phones long time ago. And they were recabled or copied and sold now. Imagine those days they already have excellent sound quality. The japs really know their stuff.


----------



## robar

Is there any source where they sell empty docomo shells? Also have you tried dp100 shells with regular mx500 drivers, can they snap on or only the dp100/mx760 covers are compatible?


----------



## subwoof3r

subwoof3r said:


> I made some DIY new experiment yesterday, I swapped the original PK2 drivers from the *DIY PK2 Docomo* that I received 3 days ago, and placed original 150 ohm PK1 red film drivers instead. With stock foams on the shells, I can confirm that the PK1 drivers are clearly a true upgrade from PK2 drivers (without any surprise). Better imaging and instrument separation, overall clarity and details, more grainy mids, etc.
> But when it comes to bass area, I feel that the PK2 drivers are better (for those who wants more). PK1 bass is tight and clean, while the PK2 is more punchy and present, especially in mid-bass impact. Mids and highs are more smoothed out in PK2 drivers, but they performs really good too. I still believe that the original PK2 drivers included in the DIY from Chitty's store is already the best and good choice for Docomo shells, while PK1 drivers performs better in original PK shells. My advice is that It's better to keep that configuration then and do some fun mods into Docomo shells directly than trying to swap drivers.
> I really enjoy the form of the Docomo shells, as they sits very well and stays in place into my ears. A nice discover!


A little update on that point.
Yesterday I made some new experimentations still based with those Docomo shells. I removed the stock cotton shoes tuning that were glued to cover the main 3 holes behind the shell, and I replaced it with different porous medical tapes and unfortunately, the result was disappointing with PK1 150 ohm red film drivers, the sound was too bright for my taste, and much accentuated in the highs, while bass was not much present. So definitely, that confirms my theory, this DIY PK2 docomo is already at their best with full stock and the included original PK2 drivers. I will now stop to play with docomo shells for a while, unless I find one day another good 14.8mm drivers variant that could sonically suits the shells


----------



## robar (Oct 21, 2019)

Have you tried 14.2mm speakers like these? Do they fit Qian39 in your opinion? Thanks!
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000272267259.html

And there are 3 listings of drivers that look very much like one of the recommended ones in this thread (the 19-21khz one), both in terms of specs and look. I've wanted to buy one for a while but this is the first time it is sold in small quantities. If I had to guess the first one is that. I've asked the seller what's the difference:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html (bass focused)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000250922044.html (almost same as above just different material)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000272216678.html (more clear and wide, classic version)


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Have you tried 14.2mm speakers like these? Do they fit Qian39 in your opinion? Thanks!
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000272267259.html


They looks to be the same plastic grid used in NiceHCK EBX.
Maybe they are the same drivers..


----------



## Themilkman46290

Hi guys, I been watching and reading over this thread, and the idea of making my own earbuds is very provoking, so I was hope you guys could tell me how you feel your buds compare to some totl level buds, and other mid to high level buds like k's samsara, ty hi z hp320, hp150ts and other high impedance buds, I want to try with higher impedance for use with zishans and walnuts, how would you guys rate the drivers, I have seen 400-600 ohm graphene, and also the 130ohm and 600ohm beryllium drivers, if I wanted to build a pair that would be similar level or higher then my beloved samsaras or seahf 400ohms where should I start? Does a silver cable make a huge difference? What combination of tuning foams do you guys use?and how difficult is it to solder? What temperature?


----------



## robar (Oct 23, 2019)

If anyone's interested, CKLewis put up wooden shells for very cheap, there are both 15.4mm and 14.2mm variants and they cost only 3usd/pair.  (they look similar to other listings but less than half the price) I asked him if any of the covers snap on without glue, I'll update the post if I get any answer.


----------



## ricesteam

This is the sound signature of the original VE Zen 1.0 (and possibly Seahf 320 v1)







Anyone know if there's a driver with the same or similar sound signature?


----------



## SiggyFraud (Oct 24, 2019)

Always wanted a pair like this


----------



## robar

SiggyFraud said:


> Always wanted a pair like this


Looks nice  Have you taken photos of the inside of red vido? I'd be interested in the tuning/driver. Don't you have channel imbalances because of the different shells/tuning foams?


----------



## SiggyFraud

robar said:


> Looks nice  Have you taken photos of the inside of red vido? I'd be interested in the tuning/driver. Don't you have channel imbalances because of the different shells/tuning foams?


No channel imbalance as far as I can tell. The shells are exactly the same, just different colour, and I can't see any difference between the drivers and tuning foams. It seems like the foams differ from each other, but I guess it's just the poor lighting.


----------



## robar (Oct 24, 2019)

SiggyFraud said:


> No channel imbalance as far as I can tell. The shells are exactly the same, just different colour, and I can't see any difference between the drivers and tuning foams. It seems like the foams differ from each other, but I guess it's just the poor lighting.


Thanks for the pics! Interesting, red vido is widely regarded as significantly different sound signature from other variants. And I personally have different colors/version of vido (white, blue from different batches) which do sound very different from each other and the tuning foams have indeed different thickness. It's possible that in your case the density of foam is different, or you got lucky and found two indentically tuned vidos 
Here are my two newest vidos (I bought them in summer from e-tech store) which are both quite different from each other and older whites too. The blue has 2x thick tuning foam and sounds flat compared to white, the measurement shows it too. (Maybe your red has the same tuning?) In fact I put RY4S UE drivers in that blue shell and it sounds awesome now, much better than original tuning of RY4S UE (much more natural mids/timbre, smoother highs, deeper bass)


----------



## SiggyFraud

robar said:


> Thanks for the pics! Interesting, red vido is widely regarded as significantly different sound signature from other variants. And I personally have different colors/version of vido (white, blue from different batches) which do sound very different from each other and the tuning foams have indeed different thickness. It's possible that in your case the density of foam is different, or you got lucky and found two indentically tuned vidos
> Here are my two newest vidos (I bought them in summer from e-tech store) which are both quite different from each other and older whites too. The blue has 2x thick tuning foam and sounds flat compared to white, the measurement shows it too. (Maybe your red has the same tuning?) In fact I put RY4S UE drivers in that blue shell and it sounds awesome now, much better than original tuning of RY4S UE (much more natural mids/timbre, smoother highs, deeper bass)


Or I just really suck at this and can't tell the difference 
I'll give them a closer look once I'm home.
Thank you for your valuable input!


----------



## robar (Oct 25, 2019)

SiggyFraud said:


> Or I just really suck at this and can't tell the difference
> I'll give them a closer look once I'm home.
> Thank you for your valuable input!


I don't have red version this is why I'm so intrigued haha. Before I started to measure, my method to spot channel imbalances was this: set up Foobar with a Mono effect, so both channels should have the same sound, then switch them in the same ear every few seconds. Maybe you could give it a go


----------



## subwoof3r

Anybody tried* these "15.4mm"* drivers yet ? if yes any hint about the sound? I'm curious
@HungryPanda maybe?


----------



## endia

subwoof3r said:


> Anybody tried* these "15.4mm"* drivers yet ? if yes any hint about the sound? I'm curious
> @HungryPanda maybe?



it's driver cover looks like 14.8mm rather than 15.4mm.. also some has orange point while some has purple, if it makes any sense..


----------



## subwoof3r

endia said:


> it's driver cover looks like 14.8mm rather than 15.4mm.. also some has orange point while some has purple, if it makes any sense..


Maybe they did a special PK plastic covers-like to be adapted to 15.4mm ? not sure what to trust so yeah for now it's safe to think it's 14.8.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have indeed used these drivers on standard MX500 shells, very good vocal performance


----------



## robar (Nov 3, 2019)

These speakers look very similar to what B40 uses. The front cover and the inner layout looks very similar, the only real difference visually for me is that B40 has thin white foam on the vents.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000294994624.html
Fun fact: the B40 front cover is not complatible with anything I have (too deep for my 14.8mm shells but the diameter is too small for 15mm ones), except for the shell of Panasonic RP-HV095E. That Panasonic shell is of good quality and very comfortable but the sound is bad due to almost no vents, I'll try to mod it and see what happens 

edit: there are small differences, I see 2 notches on the listing while B40 has one, and the cover holes look a bit smaller on the B40. Maybe the cover surface is more curved with the B40 but it's hard to tell. So probably not the exact same unit, but definitely related in some ways, maybe NiceHCK customized these drivers for the B40. All of it is just a theory of course


----------



## robar (Nov 3, 2019)

B40 driver. I quickly swapped the drivers with another B40 as an experiment because there was a significant channel imbalance, so the soldering quality is my crime  (the solder was quite hard to heat up for some reason and I was very frustrated with the whole thing when I tried this haha) The swapping improved the situation by the way, the two channels were different in both of my copies so in this instance I replaced the right speaker with the other pair's left speaker.

edit: Now the curves are the same with the two lefties, just one side is 2dB louder than the other, not sure why. Compared to Qian69, the sound is somewhat similar but softer and smoother with less bass impact and thinner vocals. I'm not sure if this is the same as the intended sound but this was the only usable configuration with my units


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> (the solder was quite hard to heat up for some reason and I was very frustrated with the whole thing when I tried this haha)


Sometimes you need to add some tin (almost a very little ball) at the end of the solder tip to help unsoldering wires from drivers, at 300°C it should do the trick


----------



## HungryPanda

Drivers do have to be matched. Even expensive brands take great care about it.


----------



## robar

HungryPanda said:


> Drivers do have to be matched. Even expensive brands take great care about it.


yes of course, but what was very strange and disappointing to me that the B40 channels had very significant differences, and very similar across multiple units, as if the left and right drivers were from completely different batches or something. My other cheap earbuds have much better matching, the best of all is my Qian69 which has virtually the exact same response in both channels according to my measurements. 
First graph is my new B40 set in original imbalance, second is the two left drivers in new set, third is the two right drivers in old set. As you can see very big difference below 400hz. Again 250hz/1.2khz bump are resonances in my setup, I still haven't figured it out how to compensate it in REW haha
 
 
 


subwoof3r said:


> Sometimes you need to add some tin (almost a very little ball) at the end of the solder tip to help unsoldering wires from drivers, at 300°C it should do the trick


Yep, thanks for the tip  It had some coating or different material I think because the smell was very different too.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Can anyone say how are the 130ohm beryllium vs 600ohm beryllium?


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 6, 2019)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Can anyone say how are the 130ohm beryllium vs 600ohm beryllium?


I don't own 600 but from what I think/readed the 600 looks to have slightly more bass (& more sub-bass especially?), but overall presentation/sound should be the same. All depends of course of the driving power to match the same.
600 ohm is very difficult to power in quality. That's why I generally prefer to stuck max at 150/300 ohm.


----------



## Themilkman46290

subwoof3r said:


> I don't own 600 but from what I think/readed the 600 looks to have slightly more bass (& more sub-bass especially?), but overall presentation/sound should be the same. All depends of course of the driving power to match the same.
> 600 ohm is very difficult to power in quality. That's why I generally prefer to stuck max at 150/300 ohm.


Thanks. Ordered them couple days back, couldn't find any info except one post on here that said they are totl level, guess I will have to order the 600ohm later, coming for samsara, going to miss the sub bass...

Thanks for the response


----------



## robar

Has anyone modded Qian69? I'm mainly interested in the recabling process, is the backplate removeable? I pulled out the cable but a metal clamp is dangling inside the stem which I can't take out. Btw I dont recommend opening up Qian69, the driver were torn apart immediately... :/


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 12, 2019)

After many modding tries and finally back to stock shells, I can confirm that my other set of 150 ohm red fim drivers that I ordered in september last is defective, one of the unit (left of right) is definitely not sounding the same as the other one.
I tried contacting Chitty's store (aliex) but they explained to me the cost it too high to send only 1 unit... and that they will wait for my next order to place a free unit as replacement, which is nice but I had no plan to buy something from this store for now.. lol
A bit sad then to not finalize another "GXaudio PK150"  

In the meantime for that 11.11, I decided to get another 130 ohm beryllium but with metal covers instead of generic black plastic (hopefully a bit better sub-bass presence with these kind of covers), and a pair of 500 ohm beryllium drivers, I'm curious 

_**edit* *: finally chitty store arranged me, offering 10$ for a new pair of PK1 red film drivers, I accepted that offer. Good service from the store I would say._


----------



## HungryPanda

Chitty store is very pleasant to contact and I have always had problems resolved


----------



## endia

subwoof3r said:


> In the meantime for that 11.11, I decided to get another 130 ohm beryllium but with metal covers instead of generic black plastic (hopefully a bit better sub-bass presence with these kind of covers), and a pair of 500 ohm beryllium drivers, I'm curious



i built another one with new metal covers;
first noticed thing out of the box is a little boomy midbass and less airy presentation as a result.. but didn't try it with the same cable; it's maybe because of the cable differences.. with a neutral or somewhat cold source it can be shine though..


----------



## robar

Any impressions on these drivers? Compared to others in the price range, for example detail levels, sound sig etc? 
I'm looking for nice quality low impedance (32-64ohm) 15.4mm speakers. I tried some other drivers in the 3-4usd range with very good results, so I'm planning to try some in the 4-10usd range. Steel mesh is good point for me because I have some shells that dont work with the bigger plastic covers, but sound quality is my priority.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32954897746.html ( New mx500 steel mesh 32ohm )
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000220039317.html ( Titanium membrane 64ohm )
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000053569225.html ( Titanium Film 32ohm )
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000312685982.html ( Steel mesh 32ohm 110dB )
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000272216678.html ( 32ohm 98.5dB clear sound)


----------



## Timoteew

Has anyone tried putting balanced armatures in an earbud or is this a big no-no? Do they necessarily require the tight seal that an IEM provides? I've been into earbuds for a while but am now looking into designing my own.


----------



## HungryPanda (Nov 14, 2019)

The Dunu Alpha 1 has both a Dynamic and BA driver and sound great


----------



## Timoteew

HungryPanda said:


> The Dunu Alpha 1 had a both a Dynamic and BA driver and sound great


Cheers, I hadn't seen those before!


----------



## ForceMajeure

HungryPanda said:


> The Dunu Alpha 1 has both a Dynamic and BA driver and sound great


I completely forgot about those.
Thank you for the reminder


----------



## robar (Nov 15, 2019)

Has anyone experimented with “open back” shell mods? (like ms16) For example, drilling a large hole in the back of a wooden shell. Will it work and provide new sound characteristics or it would just ruin the whole thing? Of course I would put some kind of metal mesh and foam on the hole-


----------



## robar

Can you recommend any techniques to remove the coating from earbud wires? I opened up a bud and I accidentally tore the cable apart where it was soldered to the speaker. So the end of the cable is coated (not silver but colored) now. I read that I should dip it into flux then heat it up, but I don't have flux. Any other options for cleaning these thin fragile cables?


----------



## DBaldock9

robar said:


> Can you recommend any techniques to remove the coating from earbud wires? I opened up a bud and I accidentally tore the cable apart where it was soldered to the speaker. So the end of the cable is coated (not silver but colored) now. I read that I should dip it into flux then heat it up, but I don't have flux. Any other options for cleaning these thin fragile cables?



I do have some liquid flux, to use on tricky soldering projects.
Since you don't have any, there are several suggestions here -  https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/53028/how-to-remove-enamel-from-wire


----------



## robar

DBaldock9 said:


> I do have some liquid flux, to use on tricky soldering projects.
> Since you don't have any, there are several suggestions here -  https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/53028/how-to-remove-enamel-from-wire


Thanks, I've seen this page while on research. I might try simply heating up the cable with soldering iron, I don't think the other options are feasible in my case. I just a bit hesitant as this is a bit dirty method, I don't want to hinder sound quality by creating residue on the cable. Maybe the easiest option is to just buy flux or flux-core solder, but these are very cheap cables not sure if they worth the effort. (stock cable of Qian69 and SR2 16ohm)


----------



## subwoof3r

endia said:


> i built another one with new metal covers;
> first noticed thing out of the box is a little boomy midbass and less airy presentation as a result.. but didn't try it with the same cable; it's maybe because of the cable differences.. with a neutral or somewhat cold source it can be shine though..


Interesting to see that covers may such affect the overall sound presentation. I will check this point too as I will (hopefully) receive my drivers in a few days.
For now I'm still very pleased with the version with standard MX500 black plastic covers.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Thanks, I've seen this page while on research. I might try simply heating up the cable with soldering iron, I don't think the other options are feasible in my case. I just a bit hesitant as this is a bit dirty method, I don't want to hinder sound quality by creating residue on the cable. Maybe the easiest option is to just buy flux or flux-core solder, but these are very cheap cables not sure if they worth the effort. (stock cable of Qian69 and SR2 16ohm)



I'm now using *THIS* TK83 flux pen, very good flux pen, recommended


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 25, 2019)

Long time I did not made some DIY so yesterday I choosed to finally check and open one of my two pairs of *Edifier H180* 

The good news is that it perfectly fits MX500 drivers type (basically 15.4mm). It almost snap (depending of the drivers covers) (@robar fyi).
I unsoldered one of my mods (the wood shells with the PET 32ohm drivers) to get back the drivers for this new mod.

The cable used on Edifier H180 is basic/standard entry level OFC (I puted it in my backups cables just in case) and decided to also undo my MX760 project to retrieve the copper cable that I generally use in my best mods.

The drivers are not very difficult to remove but seriously needs attention (I killed one driver trying to dismantle), because the covers are really a cover of the drivers themselves, meaning that if you try opening H180 you will directly face the coil, so beware.With some tools you can gently pull out the glued drivers from the plastic shells. As I killed one driver, I had much fun before killing the other one, to plug the cable in a DAP and put at almost max volume listening some heavy bass tracks, it was interesting to see how coils are moving from the magnet, it's like a woofer on its own, it was funny experience, lol, then I killed it to retrive the H180 shells 

The holes in the H180 acts like MX500 ones, they have basic cotton tuning that we can find easily on them. As they were completely glued, I decided to gently remove everything, from the cotton to the glue for cleaner result (not in the photos) and put a brand new coton tuning in the shells.
I also removed the stock cotton tuning from the 32 ohm PET drivers and place white thin ones (as seen in the photo) and assembly everything back.
The fit on these shells coupled with these drivers remembers me the Docomo PK2 mod. They are very close.

The result is stunning! bass is just incredible, near the level of Smabat ST-10, like a subwoofer system, I'm impressed.
Sound is yet warm but with some slight V presentation, with very good details and overall clarity. Soundstage not the biggest but very intimate.
Probably my yet best DIY for electronic musics pair ever made! I enjoy it a lot for now 

Here is some photos I took during the mod :


----------



## robar (Nov 25, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Long time I did not made some DIY so yesterday I choosed to finally check and open one of my two pairs of *Edifier H180*
> The good news is that it perfectly fits MX500 drivers type (basically 15.4mm). It almost snap (depending of the drivers covers) (@robar fyi).



Looks really nice, thanks for the mention  I'm planning to buy a cheap bud with this shell, after I completed my other projects. there are some 1-3usd listings which would be nice donors haha. I'm waiting for DP100 and wooden shells, plus I disassembled Qian69 too for the shell. (the driver died in the process unfortunately, and metal clamps stuck in the stem so it's not an easy process) I bought some drivers too, and I'll make a detailed post about the results after I received and built everything  For the time being, I really enjoy the N50 build, it's like the mx760 build on steroids, more transparent, larger soundstage, bigger bass, crispier highs, more engaging in every way. Actually I'm planning to move the mx760 drivers to the DP100 or Qian69 shells, I think it has a lot of potential and the mx760 shell is the main culprit in my opinion, even the fit is not ideal for me. (even in this shell it sounds like an improved Qian69 to me, but I think a bigger shell would make it even better, like deeper bass, smoother 4-5khz, more transparent etc) Will you experiment with the mx760 driver further, like putting it in other shells like the wooden one etc? My theory is that it's originally designed for dp100 shells, and the bundled mx760 shell was just the seller's idea or convenience.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Looks really nice, thanks for the mention  I'm planning to buy a cheap bud with this shell, after I completed my other projects. there are some 1-3usd listings which would be nice donors haha. I'm waiting for DP100 and wooden shells, plus I disassembled Qian69 too for the shell. (the driver died in the process unfortunately, and metal clamps stuck in the stem so it's not an easy process) I bought some drivers too, and I'll make a detailed post about the results after I received and built everything  For the time being, I really enjoy the N50 build, it's like the mx760 build on steroids, more transparent, larger soundstage, bigger bass, crispier highs, more engaging in every way. Actually I'm planning to move the mx760 drivers to the DP100 or Qian69 shells, I think it has a lot of potential and the mx760 shell is the main culprit in my opinion, even the fit is not ideal for me. (even in this shell it sounds like an improved Qian69 to me, but I think a bigger shell would make it even better, like deeper bass, smoother 4-5khz, more transparent etc) Will you experiment with the mx760 driver further, like putting it in other shells like the wooden one etc? My theory is that it's originally designed for dp100 shells, and the bundled mx760 shell was just the seller's idea or convenience.


Your welcome 
If mx760 drivers snaps in those H180 shells, that would be a dream of comfort I would say. I will check this in the next few days 
I will try them in my few other mixed/exotic shells collection (wood, metal, etc) and stay you tuned.


----------



## robar (Nov 25, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Your welcome
> If mx760 drivers snaps in those H180 shells, that would be a dream of comfort I would say. I will check this in the next few days
> I will try them in my few other mixed/exotic shells collection (wood, metal, etc) and stay you tuned.


Thanks, sounds awesome  I think it should snap on most 15.4mm shells, especially those which are compatible with steel mesh covers, except mx500 (which is too deep), but we'll see. Looking forward to your impressions


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Thanks, sounds awesome  I think it should snap on most 15.4mm shells, especially those which are compatible with steel mesh covers, except mx500 (which is too deep), but we'll see. Looking forward to your impressions


As promised 
The MX760 drivers snaps perfectly on those two shells (but no other from any of my collection) :


----------



## robar (Nov 25, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> As promised
> The MX760 drivers snaps perfectly on those two shells (but no other from any of my collection) :


Thanks, this is good news already! Will you try one of these in terms of sound quality? I'll try snapping it to my collection too and post which was compatible, after I received and fixed everything. The wooden shell I ordered seems to have a bigger chamber compared to yours, and made from slightly different material, but the store says it'll be compatible. I remember you said that the wooden shell was a bit large for you. I guess this smaller cover would help a bit with its size, not as thick as mx500 front covers.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Thanks, this is good news already! Will you try one of these in terms of sound quality? I'll try snapping it to my collection too and post which was compatible, after I received and fixed everything. The wooden shell I ordered seems to have a bigger chamber compared to yours, and made from slightly different material, but the store says it'll be compatible. I remember you said that the wooden shell was a bit large for you. I guess this smaller cover would help a bit with its size, not as thick as mx500 front covers.


Sure, I will try the wood mod with the MX760 drivers for the fun and stay you tuned. The metal shells project is abandonned as I found it too "cheap" in hand (loose MMCX, and the circle  on where we "snap" drivers covers is extremely fragile).


----------



## DBaldock9

subwoof3r said:


> As promised
> The MX760 drivers snaps perfectly on those two shells (but no other from any of my collection) :



Wireless earbuds...


----------



## subwoof3r

DBaldock9 said:


> Wireless earbuds...


haha, we never stop technology!


----------



## subwoof3r

Anyone know where I can buy some cheap Edifier "H180" shells type? (@golov17 maybe? )
Those shells are terrific in term of sound performance and comfort, my new DIY flagship is now based on them! (photos to come very soon)


----------



## golov17

subwoof3r said:


> Anyone know where I can buy some cheap Edifier "H180" shells type? (@golov17 maybe? )
> Those shells are terrific in term of sound performance and comfort, my new DIY flagship is now based on them! (photos to come very soon)


 only 
US $2.75  31%OFF | Headphones In Ear Sport Earphones 3.5 mm Bass Sweatproof Stereo Gaming Earbuds for Huawei Galaxy s6 xiaomi smartphone Aliexpress
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/brpJUwns


----------



## golov17 (Nov 28, 2019)

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bugMZK5M


----------



## subwoof3r

golov17 said:


> only
> US $2.75  31%OFF | Headphones In Ear Sport Earphones 3.5 mm Bass Sweatproof Stereo Gaming Earbuds for Huawei Galaxy s6 xiaomi smartphone Aliexpress
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/brpJUwns





golov17 said:


> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/bugMZK5M


Fantastic, thank you very much!


----------



## robar (Nov 28, 2019)

I received one new driver, what I call “19hz-21khz bass unit”  The most interesting fact: this has a bit tighter outer edge compared to other mx500 front covers, so it snaps on very well on different shells. The fit reminds me of steel mesh covers, for example I can perfectly snap this on the Qian69 shell, while other mx500 drivers are very loose usually. So the compatibility is very good, doesn't need glue which is very good news for me haha. I didn't have much time to test, but my first impression is that it's quite similar to EMX500 drivers, but deeper bass, and maybe a little bit more v-shaped. I didn't have time for burning or deeper side by side comparison, but I can say it's at least as good as emx500, and the tighter fit alone makes it more useful to me. It think it will be an excellent candidate for alternative shells, both the compatibility and the sound signature seems pretty nice for that. There are quite a few versions of these drivers, with different sound signatures etc. so this will be a good base for further experiments/purchases.
(this is the 19-21khz bass unit) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html



subwoof3r said:


> Anyone know where I can buy some cheap Edifier "H180" shells type? (@golov17 maybe? )
> Those shells are terrific in term of sound performance and comfort, my new DIY flagship is now based on them! (photos to come very soon)


Oh my, now I have to order one at least  I wishlisted these H180 buds a couple of weeks ago, both are under 2usd, might order one tomorrow. 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32882471978.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32883981692.html

By the way, do you think these cheapo micropore tapes would be useful for fine tuning earbuds?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33046349964.html

Ah and I forgot, any progress on the wooden shell build, or you're totally immersed in your H180 right now haha?


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> By the way, do you think these cheapo micropore tapes would be useful for fine tuning earbuds?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33046349964.html
> 
> Ah and I forgot, any progress on the wooden shell build, or you're totally immersed in your H180 right now haha?



I initially planned yesterday to make both the H180 mod and the wood with MX760 drivers at the same time but once I tried my first (the H180) mod, I was so impressed that I decided to stop here and have fun listening till I fall asleep 
And since, I can't go back to any of my other earbuds for now, damn! 
I will be you, I would avoid those chinese medical tapes sold in aliexpress, I prefer to buy directly at local pharmacy those kind of tapes, much safer.


----------



## robar (Nov 28, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> I initially planned yesterday to make both the H180 mod and the wood with MX760 drivers at the same time but once I tried my first (the H180) mod, I was so impressed that I decided to stop here and have fun listening till I fall asleep
> And since, I can't go back to any of my other earbuds for now, damn!
> I will be you, I would avoid those chinese medical tapes sold in aliexpress, I prefer to buy directly at local pharmacy those kind of tapes, much safer.


Ah I get it, looking forward to more info about your H180 project 

Has anyone tried these drivers? They seem like one of the best low impedance drivers in aliexpress at the moment, thinking about trying one.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041139370.html (32ohm titanium film)


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 29, 2019)

Oh, I forgot to tell but I also received yesterday my *500 ohm beryllium drivers*.
While they shares almost same sound signature from the 130 ohm beryllium, they are definitely more warm (definitely way too warm for my taste). They have a little more bass, but the mids and highs are less detailed overall than the 130.
I did not spend enough time yet but they could be a nice start for DIY project thought. I truely think they don't requires any holes at all in the shells at all because of beeing too warm already.


----------



## subwoof3r

And as promised, here are two photos of my new yet best DIY projet based on H180 shells


----------



## robar

Really really nice  Are these still the same 32ohm drivers you mentioned few days ago?


subwoof3r said:


> Oh, I forgot to tell but I also received yesterday my *500 ohm beryllium drivers*.
> While they shares almost same sound signature from the 130 ohm beryllium, they are definitely more warm (definitely way too warm for my taste). They have a little more bass, but the mids and highs are less detailed overall than the 130.


I'm not familiar with your gear, but maybe not enough amping? Underpowered buds tend to sound very warm and a bit muddy/muffled, at least this is my experience with the Rosemary on my gear haha. Maybe you hear a similar effect just on a smaller scale.


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 29, 2019)

robar said:


> Really really nice  Are these still the same 32ohm drivers you mentioned few days ago?
> 
> I'm not familiar with your gear, but maybe not enough amping? Underpowered buds tend to sound very warm and a bit muddy/muffled, at least this is my experience with the Rosemary on my gear haha. Maybe you hear a similar effect just on a smaller scale.


Yup, I'm using it into my Fostex HP-A8C dac/amp with is known for its neutral and transparent presentation, it can drive up to 600 ohm max. This amp has been designed for the Fostex TH900 headphones which tends to a V signature, for a perfect match between both.
I will try some mods and see how it happens, hopefully in the right way


----------



## endia

subwoof3r said:


> And as promised, here are two photos of my new yet best DIY projet based on H180 shells



is this the driver you use?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32475947593.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.13.2c8b1214c4qfLJ

i was thinking that i'm done with 130 ohm berylliums but...


----------



## subwoof3r

endia said:


> is this the driver you use?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32475947593.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.13.2c8b1214c4qfLJ
> 
> i was thinking that i'm done with 130 ohm berylliums but...


I bought these ones (purposed initially by @HungryPanda) this is the 35 ohm PET version.
But when I look at the drivers in pictures, they looks more like the ones in your link in bass version, so it is weird (never paid attention to compare initial product and the received one before)


----------



## robar (Nov 29, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> I bought these ones (purposed initially by @HungryPanda) this is the 35 ohm PET version.
> But when I look at the drivers in pictures, they looks more like the ones in your link in bass version, so it is weird (never paid attention to compare initial product and the received one before)


How idoes it compare to EMX500 drivers? Just because it looks very similar from the back. I'm not a big fan of EMX500 drivers because they sound thin and bright in the mids, no matter what I do with them. Are these have smoother more natural sound?
 I'm really enjoying the sound of the budget N50, N52 drivers, much more natural mids/highs compared to EMX500. Like lifting the veil of harshness off. If this PET sounds similar on a higher level that would be awesome. I just did a quick build with the N52 - I had to remove the tuning foam from the speakers, then I put it in a Y-cable blue vido shell. (the one which is tuned close to flat) Now it has a very neutral, warm, full sound with no harshness or sibilance at all, I could listen to it all day long.  The N50 steel mesh is even better but I keep it for the smaller shells. I'm also working on a new build based on Qian69 shells - very promising so far, I'll able to tell more soon.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> How idoes it compare to EMX500 drivers? Just because it looks very similar from the back. I'm not a big fan of EMX500 drivers because they sound thin and bright in the mids, no matter what I do with them. Are these have smoother more natural sound?
> I'm really enjoying the sound of the budget N50, N52 drivers, much more natural mids/highs compared to EMX500. Like lifting the veil of harshness off. If this PET sounds similar on a higher level that would be awesome. I just did a quick build with the N52 - I had to remove the tuning foam from the speakers, then I put it in a Y-cable blue vido shell. (the one which is tuned close to flat) Now it has a very neutral, warm, full sound with no harshness or sibilance at all, I could listen to it all day long.  The N50 steel mesh is even better but I keep it for the smaller shells. I'm also working on a new build based on Qian69 shells - very promising so far, I'll able to tell more soon.


Which "MX500" drivers are you refering to? I have many original MX500 drivers from CKlewis store (aliexpress) and they are very good (used in my first mods) but not sure you are talking  about those specific ones?
The ones from CKLewis have plenty of bass (especially mid-bass impact) once we do a little hole into basic MX500 shells.


----------



## robar (Nov 29, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Which "MX500" drivers are you refering to? I have many original MX500 drivers from CKlewis store (aliexpress) and they are very good (used in my first mods) but not sure you are talking  about those specific ones?
> The ones from CKLewis have plenty of bass (especially mid-bass impact) once we do a little hole into basic MX500 shells.


I speak about the original EMX500 drivers yes. The RY4S UE has very similar drivers too, they look and sound very similar (I would say at least 90% same), I have the same problem with both - at least in mx500 shells. It's quite possible that in smaller shells this extra brightness is softened.
This is the specific listing from where I bought the EMX500, but these are the same what CKlewis sells I believe. (I just bought at Jietu because I didn't want to buy 5 pairs at once)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979009902.html (this is what I'm referring to)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32855076228.html (the same on CKLewis)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978515836.html (N52)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980742390.html (N50 steel mesh)


----------



## robar (Nov 29, 2019)

I completed the first stage of my Qian69 shell build. It sounds incredible so far! The drivers weren't burned in at all and already sounds better than anything I had so far. The synergy is very good with the 19hz-21khz bass drivers, this shell soaked up the brightness completely and it sounds very clean and smooth now with awesome extension both ways. Basically imagine ry4s ue with deeper more present bass, smoother fuller and more natural mids/highs. Very well balanced with a touch of warmth, deep powerful bass and sparkly but gentle highs. I'll write in more detail with pics after I've completed the build with nice cables etc. There were quite a few challenges, I needed a lot of patience to get this far haha.


----------



## subwoof3r (Dec 2, 2019)

I received my *130 ohms decidua beryllium drivers* recently (the ones with the *metal covers*), I would say they sound pretty same to me, they shares the exact same sound characteristics, maybe the metal ones are very slightly more warm, but it's probably because I'm using them into my H180 mod directly, meaning better tight into ears so bass is slightly more pronounced which is the exact thing I regretted into the plastic covers version and MX500 shells, so this is nice. I think I even still prefer them with metal covers and in H180 shells, they are pretty amazing and still my yet reference when it comes to resolution, balanced sound, right mids and overall good amount of detail without overwhelming anything.
I will had to make a MMCX mod for those H180 shells which amaze me everyday  they sound so much with 15.4mm drivers, that I wonder why I spend so much time working on MX500 shells 
I will probably sacrifice my other original H180 backup pair to make it MMCX  time will tell..


----------



## caracal

Hi everyone!
I want to make my first DIY buds with these drivers, recommended by robar 
Though I don't know which cables are good.

I'd like to use a cable with a remote and volume control. There are some variants:
https://aliexpress.com/item/33050270527.html
https://aliexpress.com/item/33058474789.html
https://aliexpress.com/item/32817008191.html

Do you think they'll be ok? I lean towards braided ones.

Also maybe there are some other good cheap drivers with a warm signature?


----------



## DBaldock9

caracal said:


> Hi everyone!
> I want to make my first DIY buds with these drivers, recommended by robar
> Though I don't know which cables are good.
> 
> ...



I believe that I've used the TRANSCTEGO cable on some earbuds I assembled for a co-worker.
They work just fine for controlling Android phones.


----------



## caracal

DBaldock9 said:


> I believe that I've used the TRANSCTEGO cable on some earbuds I assembled for a co-worker.
> They work just fine for controlling Android phones.


How do these TRANSCTEGO  cables compare with the stock ones soundwise?

I've also got some old h180 shells and will try making buds with them 

Still the question: are there any alternative cheap drivers with good bass and non-harsh/overly bright highs?


----------



## DBaldock9

I was assembling the earbuds "from scratch", so I didn't have stock cables to compare them to.
But, they work as well, and sound as good, as any of my other cables that have Mic/Volume Controls.


----------



## caracal

Has anybody tried putting vido drivers to smaller shells, like h180?


----------



## robar (Dec 4, 2019)

caracal said:


> Has anybody tried putting vido drivers to smaller shells, like h180?





caracal said:


> I've also got some old h180 shells and will try making buds with them
> Still the question: are there any alternative cheap drivers with good bass and non-harsh/overly bright highs?


I haven't used H180 yet but I've put vido drivers in Meizu EP21HD shells with good success. (but those shells have multiple variants not all are compatible with vido drivers so I wouldn't recommend buying one)
There was a post here maybe last year somebody put the vido drivers in like 6-8 different shells and wrote detailed impressions about it. I think you can find it here or the earbuds roundup thread, I'm not sure where it's located.
My main problem with vido driver (besides the fragile build quality) is that they are quite dark and soft for most smaller shells, you can get a very smooth and warm low-detail sound but it's not the best for a balanced tuning. They are good for practicing soldering and to be grateful for sturdier drivers haha. I've found the vido shells more useful, you can put any bare drivers in them and they will sound like an improved version of the original vido.

We mostly discussed it via PM but I post here for other's benefit: I think the N50 steel mesh drivers are your best bet under 5usd for warm/neutral gentle sound signature. (it is very similar to the driver in the mx760 kit but sounds quite better in mx500 shell, I haven't compared them in the same shells yet) I also has N52 which is similar for same price but I prefer N50, it has wider soundstage and more mature sound in my opinion. (plus the steel mesh is more compatible with different shells) You can also try EMX500 drivers which are good, somewhat bright in mx500 but could be pretty nice in other shells.. My best recommendation is N50.  If you want more brightness and deeper bass then I can recommend the 19-21khz bass drivers, it's more powerful than EMX500 and has better fit in terms of snapping. It also has multiple variations like balanced, clear sound etc. but I haven't tried those. I ordered the "64ohm Titanium Membrane Superbass" drivers as a potential upgrade, will post impressions after I received it.

I got interested in the Sony Ericcson Bass reflex shells, anyone tried to DIY with them? I don't have experience with them like compatibility etc., but they look quite good in the photos. For example MH-500, HPM64

edit: the stock tuning of N50 set (tuning foam on driver plus empty mx500 shell) is U shaped with big midbass, nice low mids and highs plus some upper mid brightness. It's easy to retune by adding foam on the vents and/or removing the foam from the driver. I think in other shell it will become more neutral even with stock foam, I'll try it when my shell orders arrive.


----------



## subwoof3r (Dec 5, 2019)

caracal said:


> Has anybody tried putting vido drivers to smaller shells, like h180?


I tried on H180 shells (since its the same generic plastic covers from standard 15.4mm drivers) and it's not the best for comfort. The best plastic covers are the ones with metal covers, the best match (from my collection) for the H180 shells is the ones used in 130 ohm beryllium, they are even thinner than the ones in 32ohm PET drivers.
This way you can almost achieve the magical fit of the H180 with their original plastic covers.

Currently experimenting some white extreme thin cotton tuning foams in the shells (instead of the standard/common grey shoe tuning foams) and it looks like it brings a bit more better soundstage and tame very slightly bass impact, which is perfect for the 32 ohm PET drivers (as they have a lot of bass already). Coupled with some high quality silver plated cable and extreme thin foams (like the ones in VEclan), I really believe it's one of the best earbuds I listened to date for now.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> I got interested in the Sony Ericcson Bass reflex shells, anyone tried to DIY with them? I don't have experience with them like compatibility etc., but they look quite good in the photos. For example MH-500, HPM64



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32897525890.html

Looks interesting, I saw several mods from Earbuds Anonymous facebook group in those shells, I will probably buy one pair to see 
From the pictures, only the drivers affects the oval shape and not the shells directly, so this is nice.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have recabled a lot of of those, Only changing drivers if I wrecked one.


----------



## robar (Dec 5, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32897525890.html
> 
> Looks interesting, I saw several mods from Earbuds Anonymous facebook group in those shells, I will probably buy one pair to see
> From the pictures, only the drivers affects the oval shape and not the shells directly, so this is nice.


Yep I think it's just the plastic of the front cover. They look like mini mx500 shells to me, this is why it picked my interest.  I wonder what driver size they accept. Let's hope the aliexpress listing is not some low quality copy of the original shell


----------



## robar (Dec 10, 2019)

I've received the 15.4mm wooden shells I ordered few weeks ago. This is the new type which is sold at several stores for about 3usd per pair. The finish itself is great, it looks nice and the build quality is good. However my pair is not compatible with 15.4mm covers at all, so the photos are very misleading. I'm not sure if mine is a bad copy or what, but it has a diameter which falls in between 14.8mm and 15.4mm covers, so it"s either too big or too small (large gap between shell and driver). The only cover I could fit on these shells were the B40 drivers. So far I haven't fiddled with the tuning much, generally lacks bass, the other frequencies are roughly similar to the original b40 shell though. Emx500 might work well on these, but the cover just wobbles around no friction at all. Even the steel mesh and the dp100/mx760 cover is way too large.

this is where I bought but several other stores sell this too. I will contact the seller and discuss if this is a lemon or the whole thing is miscommunicated
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000273773541.html


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> I've received the 15.4mm wooden shells I ordered few weeks ago. This is the new type which is sold at several stores for about 3usd per pair. The finish itself is great, it looks nice and the build quality is good. However my pair is not compatible with 15.4mm covers at all, so the photos are very misleading. I'm not sure if mine is a bad copy or what, but it has a diameter which falls in between 14.8mm and 15.4mm covers, so it"s either too big or too small (large gap between shell and driver). The only cover I could fit on these shells were the B40 drivers. So far I haven't fiddled with the tuning much, generally lacks bass, the other frequencies are roughly similar to the original b40 shell though. Emx500 might work well on these, but the cover just wobbles around no friction at all. Even the steel mesh and the dp100/mx760 cover is way too large.
> 
> this is where I bought but several other stores sell this too. I will contact the seller and discuss if this is a lemon or the whole thing is miscommunicated
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000273773541.html


I have the exact same shells but without the glossy finish around the external wood. I think the pure wood would sound not the same as adding a glossy coating arount the shell as it will more sound like a basic plastic shell overall I would say.
Maybe the 15.4mm plastic covers don't like this glossy coating, meaning it does not fit well ?


----------



## robar

subwoof3r said:


> I have the exact same shells but without the glossy finish around the external wood. I think the pure wood would sound not the same as adding a glossy coating arount the shell as it will more sound like a basic plastic shell overall I would say.
> Maybe the 15.4mm plastic covers don't like this glossy coating, meaning it does not fit well ?


Nope, the diameter is simply too small, the covers wobble sideways. About 0.5-1mm is missing from the diameter to be compatible. There is basically no contact between the edges. It would be perfect if the size is right.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Nope, the diameter is simply too small, the covers wobble sideways. About 0.5-1mm is missing from the diameter to be compatible. There is basically no contact between the edges. It would be perfect if the size is right.


Damn.. sad story then 
thanks for informing us to not order this shell then


----------



## robar (Dec 10, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Damn.. sad story then
> thanks for informing us to not order this shell then


weird because on the photos all the covers sit perfectly.. let's hope it's just sample variation, I'll update if I get answer from the seller. But yes based on this single unit I would not recommend it. I'll try to make the B40 drivers work with these because this is a more comfortable shell for me. But apart from that it goes to my "mysterious grey zone shell which doesn't fit anything" collection haha.


----------



## robar (Dec 11, 2019)

Anyone tried these drivers? This looks like low impedance diy flagship material for 14.8mm builds.. I have a collection of empty 14.8mm shells and I plan to build something nice with them next year. It would be nice to skip directly to the really good stuff, this is why I'm interested 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978993535.html

And I'm also curious about these
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000177042681.html

I ordered these 15.4mm 64ohm titanium membrane drivers by the way, will post impressions after I received them
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000220039317.html


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Anyone tried these drivers? This looks like low impedance diy flagship material for 14.8mm builds.. I have a collection of empty 14.8mm shells and I plan to build something nice with them next year. It would be nice to skip directly to the really good stuff, this is why I'm interested
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978993535.html
> 
> And I'm also curious about these
> ...


I almost reached the buy button several weeks ago but the only thing that made me stop is the word "voice" coil  I generally don't have much hope on drivers that have this word from sellers as they are good for voice only but not generally bassy, but who know! 

The second link looks interesting, I will maybe give a try, but I had not very good experience with 64ohm drivers (the few I tried in 15.4mm was not very good at bass section while beeing average in the mids and highs, nothing extraordinary I would say).


----------



## robar (Dec 12, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> I almost reached the buy button several weeks ago but the only thing that made me stop is the word "voice" coil  I generally don't have much hope on drivers that have this word from sellers as they are good for voice only but not generally bassy, but who know!
> 
> The second link looks interesting, I will maybe give a try, but I had not very good experience with 64ohm drivers (the few I tried in 15.4mm was not very good at bass section while beeing average in the mids and highs, nothing extraordinary I would say).


Ah I see, fair point haha. The reviewer wrote that it sounds similar to PK1, EBX with the metal shells. So the fidelity must be pretty good, not sure about the sound sig, the listing says balanced/clear. The speaker from the mx760 kit is called vocal as well and it has ok bass I think even in the mx760 shell (not much but musical) In other shells its bass improves further, I'm experimenting with it atm.

What 64ohm speakers have you tried?

I'm hoping the best for the titanium membrane I ordered, the title contains the word "Super Bass" so it's promising haha. I really need something that is a bit harder to drive for my Qian69 build, because the 32ohms are really sensitive and gets loud insanely fast with that deep fit in my ears.

Has anyone tried these PK2 5pair bundles? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969609452.html


----------



## HungryPanda

I have used those pk2 drivers, they sound pretty good. Use a tuning foam and bass is nice in a pk shell


----------



## robar (Dec 12, 2019)

HungryPanda said:


> I have used those pk2 drivers, they sound pretty good. Use a tuning foam and bass is nice in a pk shell


That's great, thanks! I have an empty PK shell from my faulty SR2. (5 pairs of pk shells are often sold for 3-4usd so this set could also make nice gifts for cheap)  Also I have some random 14.8mm shells to play with. I might try these in qian39 or faaeal z-sound as well in the future, if they are compatible (I haven't checked yet).


----------



## HungryPanda

I gifted a few of my workmates the PK2 earbuds and they are all happy with them


----------



## subwoof3r

I don't remember which ones was the bad (14.8mm) drivers, as I ordered both from same seller :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2045541063.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32776696327.html

I did not spend much with those drivers anyway, but I agree that one or the other was sounding much better than the other one.
Can't find the link of the 64 ohm I ordered but I'm pretty sure it was from CKLewis. The only good drivers them that seller that I retained was the 150 ohm, which was my best until I had 130 beryllium


----------



## robar (Dec 12, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> I don't remember which ones was the bad (14.8mm) drivers, as I ordered both from same seller :
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2045541063.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32776696327.html
> 
> ...


The docomo shell build from Chitty which you like, uses those regular pk2 speakers doesn't it?

CKLewis only sells these 64ohms, so you write about these right? The reviews say it lacks bass. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32984746103.html

I was looking at those 150ohms lately at CK, seem quite nice, I'll try one pair after I got a decent amp. Oh wait, which one? I see two different kinds, I guess you talk about the first, looks much nicer
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983256142.html (edit: yep this is it I searched in the thread)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32971170234.html

I've also seen this one at NSC, one of the reviews is from you isn't it? It's for classical music based on title
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979025026.html (edit: I found this too in this thread, this is what you didn't like because of lack of bass)
Also here is another nice looking 150ohm one for a bit cheaper, which has super bass in its name
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979616405.html


----------



## endia

subwoof3r said:


> I almost reached the buy button several weeks ago but the only thing that made me stop is the word "voice" coil  I generally don't have much hope on drivers that have this word from sellers as they are good for voice only but not generally bassy, but who know!



voice coil is an essential part of the driver concept actually.. don't have much technical info about it but it's an electromagnet and responsible for the diaphragm's vibration if i'm not mistaken..


----------



## robar (Dec 12, 2019)

endia said:


> voice coil is an essential part of the driver concept actually.. don't have much technical info about it but it's an electromagnet and responsible for the diaphragm's vibration if i'm not mistaken..


I think in this case it's more like a casual description of the general sound signature of the driver - so called "voice" speakers are generally mid centric with less bass. Clear sound/monitor ones have increased upper mids for maximum detail retrieval, and bass ones have more bass quantity/extension. In general I find the "bass" ones the most versatile because we can't really solve inherently missing bass with tuning, and many smaller shell types already have a negative effect on bass response.


----------



## endia

i prefer not to relate it with a sound signature or any kind of subjective context..
rather a technical name of a part in drivers..







more technical information could be found here as well :
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/how-headphone-dynamic-drivers-work


----------



## endia

robar said:


> Anyone tried these drivers? This looks like low impedance diy flagship material for 14.8mm builds.. I have a collection of empty 14.8mm shells and I plan to build something nice with them next year. It would be nice to skip directly to the really good stuff, this is why I'm interested
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978993535.html
> 
> And I'm also curious about these
> ...



in your first link, it says "64 ohm voice coil" which means it may also responsible for the driver impedance, as i didn't know up to now..


----------



## robar (Dec 12, 2019)

endia said:


> in your first link, it says "64 ohm voice coil" which means it may also responsible for the driver impedance, as i didn't know up to now..


Ah I see, you're totally right!  In this case it's indeed the technical term, it confused me first because of the unusual context. In most listings a midcentric tuning is often referred to as "vocal" or "voice" (without the coil part of course). Why do they point out the voice coil specifically, when a simple "64ohm impedance" would've been obvious? So this is a balanced/clear tuning 64ohm, simple as that. Thanks for pointing it out!

For example, these are listed as voice/vocal drivers, this is the popular tuning term that  I was referring to and confused me in the case above:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000272267259.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33063234848.html


----------



## GREQ

The simplest way to understand voice coils and impedance is:

More coils in a voice coil = higher impedance
Less coils in a voice coil = lower impedance

More coils = more weight
Less coils = less weight

Higher impedance = higher damping factor
Lower impedance = lower damping factor

Higher damping factor = more control over unwanted driver movement (driver is more likely to stop moving when it's meant to)
lower damping factor = less control over unwanted driver movement (driver might move a little even after the audio signal has stopped)

Coil weight and damping factor can and do affect the tonal response of 2 otherwise identical drivers, but they will most likely be more similar than different, sharing more characteristics in the sound than not.
But as we all know, is those differences that are often more important.


----------



## subwoof3r

GREQ said:


> The simplest way to understand voice coils and impedance is:
> 
> More coils in a voice coil = higher impedance
> Less coils in a voice coil = lower impedance
> ...


Could it also explain that higher impedence drivers could be harder to break then? (I mean less sensible to shocks usage)
Also,could it mean that lower impedence drivers could achieve better bass impact/response than higher ones ? (which is what I can really feel for now), as they are lighter, at the cost of precision.


----------



## GREQ (Dec 13, 2019)

subwoof3r said:


> Could it also explain that higher impedence drivers could be harder to break then? (I mean less sensible to shocks usage)
> Also,could it mean that lower impedence drivers could achieve better bass impact/response than higher ones ? (which is what I can really feel for now), as they are lighter, at the cost of precision.



Hmm... I've never read anything about voice coils affecting driver excursion (more excursion = more bass (and more distortion))
I don't know if a lighter faster coil or the heavier coil would be able to do even exhibit difference excursions on the same diaphragm.

The only thing I can think of is the lower impedance coil, being a 'less efficient motor' continues resonating and moving, effectively adding a longer bass 'decay' giving the impression of a slower, smoother bass sound - which can sometimes sound more natural than the clinical, dry, fast bass of an efficient motor.
So one theory is that it comes down to poor transients adding 'bass flavour' perhaps.

Edit - "less efficient motor" is probably incorrect, since the lower impedance means less energy is required to make sound and I'm not really sure what to replace that with.
Since it's to do with some 'natural' redundancy byproduct of the diaphragm not stopping as quickly.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 15, 2019)

GREQ said:


> The simplest way to understand voice coils and impedance is:
> 
> More coils in a voice coil = higher impedance
> Less coils in a voice coil = lower impedance
> ...



Higher impedance also usually means smaller wire to go with the larger number of coils. So weight could end up equal. Just harder to manufacture.

That also means it can potentially have a stronger magnetic field with more control and perhaps better rendering of details.




subwoof3r said:


> Could it also explain that higher impedence drivers could be harder to break then? (I mean less sensible to shocks usage)
> 
> Also,could it mean that lower impedence drivers could achieve better bass impact/response than higher ones ? (which is what I can really feel for now), as they are lighter, at the cost of precision.



No. Shouldn't be any easier or harder to break due to shock/drops. Lower impedance would be easier to damage due to electrical load & clipping though.

Lower impedance would possibly provide more bass with low powered sources vs higher impedance. As higher impedance may require a stronger source or amp to drive properly.


----------



## robar (Dec 23, 2019)

I received DP100 shells today. First impressions are quite good, nice fit and comfort for me and the maintenance is very easy. Compatibility is very good, I could fit mx500, steel mesh and dp100/mx760 covers just fine. It has good potential in terms of sound, it offers good bass quantity and nice mids, highs. I only tried N50 drivers so far, so I'll update my impressions after more experiments. Not as refined sounding as mx500 or qian69 shell (my favorite) but still quite good. Very nice all rounder because of the good fit and compatibility, plus its easy to obtain. (sold in a lot of places on aliexpress, cost 1-2usd/pair usually) Compared to mx500 shell with same driver (N50) soundstage is a bit smaller and the overall sound is more forward and direct, but 2-3khz area is smoother (plus the fit is a lot better ofc)
The dp100 shape is deeper, smoother compared to mx760. The fit is better for me and more comfortable. The stem is one big volume with no friction inside and the cable holes are large so its not necessary to remove the back plate for maintenance. Much better compatiblity than mx760, also there is enough volume inside to tie proper knot.
I haven't tried H180 yet but it would be interested to compare these two. I plan to buy a cheap random bud with these shells to experiment with.

My subjective comparison of my current top 3 15.4mm shells
Soundstage: Qian69>mx500>dp100
Overall SQ: Qian69 ~ mx500 > DP100
Fit: Qian69 > DP100 > mx500
Ease of DIY: mx500 > DP100 >> Qian69
Price/Availability: mx500 > DP100 >> Qian69
Compatiblity: mx500 = DP100 > Qian69

(edit) Compared to mx500, Q69 tends to have noticeably dialed back response around 3.5khz, then 5khz gets back up quickly. DP100 is more forward and less spacious (little congested), 3khz area somewhat decreased as well but not as much as Q69, bass is not as deep. I'm experimenting with possible solutions.

DP100 (transparent) vs MX760 shell


----------



## robar

Have you tried building with jvc/victor type shells? I discovered a cheap bud in a local supermarket with the same shells, I'm wondering if its compatible with 14.8mm or 15.4mm speakers. Also I heard it's hard to recable, have you any experience with this? Thanks!
This is the type of shell I'm talking about
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4592549/all


----------



## HungryPanda

I have never had shells like that but the look quite easy to re use in my opinion


----------



## robar

HungryPanda said:


> I have never had shells like that but the look quite easy to re use in my opinion


I see thanks! I'm just a bit hesitant to buy one another shell that might not be compatible with any speakers I have, but maybe I'll give it a go  It's called Urbanz Spot by the way and it's sold in the local Tesco in my town for about 3-4usd equivalent.


----------



## HungryPanda

I'm always buying cheap earbuds and changing drivers and cables to see what I can create. I made a few today:


----------



## telly

HungryPanda said:


> I'm always buying cheap earbuds and changing drivers and cables to see what I can create. I made a few today:



Thats awesome. Have you tried playing with higher end iems that have crossovers?


----------



## HungryPanda

I made one with a dual driver but find I am getting better sound from single dynamics and tuning


----------



## robar (Jan 2, 2020)

I've also been working on 5-6 projects recently. I reached a certain point with 3 of them when I'm fairly satisfied with the sound and starting to use them on a daily basis. In the future I'll upgrade the speakers and fine tune the sound. All of them has a very pleasant warm but natural sound with quite good bass and sparkly but controlled highs.

First is a silver DP100 shell plus the drivers from the mx760 set from NSC (with additional tuning ofc). It has the warm but fairly neutral sound, with beautiful vocals. The comfort in this setup is exceptional, I'm starting to like this even more than Qian39 for sleeping. This shell is really nice to work with but it's a bit harder to make the best out of it. Bass has a distinct midbass bump and average mx500 bud depth. There is little some brightness still but I'm working on it. Already sounds quite nicer compared to the original mx760 set, and I like the fit more as well.

(edit: I changed the two small tuning foams covering the vents to one full (thick from jietu) and it totally get rid of any harshness or sibilance. Now it sounds somewhat like a B40 with lot more bass below 200hz - so overall a smooth warm sound with lively vocals and plenty bass though a bit soft. More like a low fatigue relaxed sound signature with really nice vocals, not a tight audiophile one.)

The second one uses the shells of my crazy old bud from 10 years ago, which was bundled with a Wayteq mp4 player. It's the exact same shell as RY4X or the EA bud from Penon. I put EMX500 speakers in it and I tuned it with cut up parts of thick tuning foam from Jietu store. It has a very fun slightly thick sound with quite deep bass plus natural mids and a bit extra brightness on top. I plan to use this as my street/commute earbud. I'll probably swap the speakers for a steel mesh or mx760/dp100 cover one, to loosen up a fit a bit, like with the DP100 build. (most shells with mx500 plastic covers tend to have a very deep strong fit which makes them sound a bit too aggressive for my ears.

The third one is my build with Qian69 shell and 19-21khz bass drivers. This was the hardest build of all. The stock speakers died as soon as I opened the shell for the first time. Then there were two metal clamps, (one in the stem)  which held the cable in place, for removing these I had to drill the cable hole to a larger diameter. Pushing in a new cable is a quite frustrating experience because the entry hole at the bottom of the stem for the cable is very tight and it's not something I would be comfortable with drilling. The stem inside doesn't guide the cable into the main chamber so it's quite hit or miss to catch the cable and pull out from the main chamber. It has amazing wide soundstage and U shaped sound signature. Imagine the stock Qian69 with tighter and much much deeper bass, wider soundstage, 2x details plus airier sparkly highs. The bass has the best and deepest impact of any bud I've heard so far. There is problem though: the shell has a very distincive character which is a dip around 3.5khz (stock Qian69 has the exact same phenomena). This makes the otherwise perfectly fine mids/vocals somewhat grainy and hollow unfortunately. I'll show graphs in the future, and try to find a way to solve this issue.

I used the B40 cables for two of the builds, and a very simple brown TPE for the Qian69 shell because it only accepts max 1.6mm thick cables and I don't have a better one atm  I also have builds with the N50 and N52 drivers in process, and I plan to revive that beautiful blue mx760 shell with something. (maybe the N50?) I'm also waiting for the 64ohm titanium drivers and H180 shells, so I'll have some stuff to do next year as well haha

  

These are older builds that I disassembled for now, but I liked these: MX760 set from NSC store and N50 set. (I actually still have the N50 but with other cable) MX760 had a nice neutral/warm sound (similar to B40 but with more bass - still not big - and more energetic sound) with some brightness on the upper mids. Putting the speaker in dp100 shell + tuning improved the sound further with better fit for my ears. N50 in stock tuning has a strong U shaped sound with big midbass, wide soundstage, slightly thin but decent vocals and some upper mid brightness too. It's very enjoyable and different compared to my other buds, could be considered as a sort of improved fengru silver with fuller deeper wider sound (based on my memories and measurements of fengru silver, I couldn't compare it directly). Actually the N50 and mx760/dp100 speakers are very similar in my opinion, the tunings/covers create differences of course but the raw freq response of the speakers themselves are almost identical. The N50 is bit more energetic and thicker, brighter.
 

Speakers  I used:
mx760 set
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32960995932.html
N50
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980742390.html
19-21khz bass
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html
EMX500
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979009902.html


----------



## Themilkman46290

Happy new years, hope you all have a great year ahead of you, with many new "gems" and prosperity


----------



## purplesun (Dec 31, 2019)

Am starting to replace/repair a couple of earbud cables that my son had damaged over the years. So I took some photos of the simple repair. Hope it's useful to someone.

1. Damage to white cable sleeves where it exits the earbuds. The sleeves had also hardened for about 2 inches.




2. I had some black 1mm(measures 2mm) sleeves lying around, but white would obviously have been nicer.




3. Stripped off about 2inch of the hardened white sleeves. And made the new black sleeves slightly longer.




4. For short lengths, a kitchen lighter & a deft hand will do. But I used a heat gun this time.




5. Not pretty. As long as the overlapped sleeves wraps quite tightly, and the sleeve-ends shrinks thin enough to enter the earbud cable hole, it should work.




Lastly, I rub on some talcum powder to dry the "sweat" of heating up the sleeves. Talcum is also useful to treat old cables or any plastics that becomes "sticky/sweaty" over time.

EDIT: This is how I keep the transducer from breaking apart when I have the earbuds dismantled. I use a small strip of masking tape to hold the transducer & cover together BEFORE desoldering the cable. Be careful not to stick the tape on the thin voicecoil wire! Has proven to be quite effective, even when rough handled. Note: I won't be elaborating on the earbud as they don't comply with forum policies. It's in my signature and there's some chatter about them few years ago.


----------



## robar (Jan 1, 2020)

Further update  about the transparent dp100 build: I put in one full thick tuning foam from jietu, instead of two smaller parts only covering the vents. The sound got much smoother and a bit softer, the harshness/sibilance completely vanished, but the response curve hasn't changed that much apart from a 1.5dB downwards tilt. Now it reminds me of B40 but with significantly more bass below 200hz.
This is a phenomena I noticed recently, that the amount of foam that doesn't lie directly over a vent but simply pushed against the speaker reduces the sibilance considerably. This is a different effect compared to the technique where you glue the foam directly on the speaker. I guess this is more about absorbing reflections in the shell

(edit) Not exactly a tight lean crispy audiophile sound but the vocals are really nice and its a pleasant slightly warm fairly natural signature with good amount of (softer) bass. Very enjoyable and a good budget all rounder imho. I will probably experiment further to find out how to tighten up the bass/low mids without introducing harshness back again.


----------



## robar (Jan 2, 2020)

I found a new steel mesh speaker listing at GHXAMP, which looks the same as your favorite 32ohm speaker @subwoof3r  I think I'll try one, one another steel mesh (especially this thinner version) will be quite useful for me, and if it's really that  good I'll be happy! H180 type shell is on its way to me as well haha. They use exactly the same photos too, and the price is half of chitty's (which feels kind of right for me, as chitty tends to sell some items for 2-3 times the regular price in his store, especially in low quantities)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000443651531.html


----------



## subwoof3r

Hey guys, happy new year 2020 to all of you!

here is my latest creation based on Edifier H180 shells
2 days of work but I'm pleased of the result


----------



## robar

So I received my set of 64ohm titanium drivers but one half has really muffled soft sound :/ (The other half is perfectly fine and I'm really impressed so far btw.) Do you think it's permanently damaged and I need to ask for replacement asap? It really sounds like a dysfunctional speaker in the top half frequency range, especially from about 6khz upwards. I let it play for few hours but I'm skeptical about any improvement. I tried to resolder it but it had no effect. I used a cable from a previously functioning earbud so I don't it has any problems either. Have you experienced anything like this? Maybe it got damaged in the shipping process? I don't know whether the titanium membranes are more fragile than regular ones, but surely the winter cold and the extra pressure on postal services due to the sales didn't help.

@subwoof3r Congrats, really nice build!

Btw I asked the seller at Ghxamp about those steel mesh speakers and he said it's the same inside as the plastic cover ones, just different cover. Now I haven't tried those plastic ones but they look a lot like emx500, maybe its an improved version or something, or just the circuit looks exactly the same?
this is the plastic
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015006887.html
this is the steel mesh
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000443651531.html


----------



## HungryPanda

@subwoof3r nice build. @robar give the driver a little suck from the front, if that doesn't work you must have a defective driver


----------



## robar

HungryPanda said:


> @subwoof3r nice build. @robar give the driver a little suck from the front, if that doesn't work you must have a defective driver


Oh well I was destined to try this sucking blowing method sooner or later haha. I tried it, I heard the membrane moving in and out and maybe the lower range got a bit tighter but it didn't help with the muffled highs unfortunately :/ I guess I have no other option than to ask the seller for a replacement.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Oh well I was destined to try this sucking blowing method sooner or later haha. I tried it, I heard the membrane moving in and out and maybe the lower range got a bit tighter but it didn't help with the muffled highs unfortunately :/ I guess I have no other option than to ask the seller for a replacement.


You have a last thing to try before throwing the defective unit, try to place your unit into a little closed box filled with dry rice for at least 48h (to eventually remove moisture), and try again. If the issue is still here, try to let it for a week, and if problem persist then throw it 
I did tried that in a pair I received 2 years ago and it helped in my case but I was lucky I think.


----------



## robar

subwoof3r said:


> You have a last thing to try before throwing the defective unit, try to place your unit into a little closed box filled with dry rice for at least 48h (to eventually remove moisture), and try again. If the issue is still here, try to let it for a week, and if problem persist then throw it
> I did tried that in a pair I received 2 years ago and it helped in my case but I was lucky I think.


thanks, I'll try it as I have nothing to lose I guess haha. It's a shame, based on the other working half this is a really nice driver with amazing bass extension and generally a darker/smoother sound sig compared to my other speakers, this should be really fun to tune and to try in all kinds of shells. I waited 1 month for this, now another 1-1.5 month :/


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> thanks, I'll try it as I have nothing to lose I guess haha. It's a shame, based on the other working half this is a really nice driver with amazing bass extension and generally a darker/smoother sound sig compared to my other speakers, this should be really fun to tune and to try in all kinds of shells. I waited 1 month for this, now another 1-1.5 month :/


Can you remember me the link on ali please? I will buy one pair too and wait with you


----------



## robar

subwoof3r said:


> Can you remember me the link on ali please? I will buy one pair too and wait with you


Yes, here it is: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000220039317.html
Of course hearing only one side, I can't give you more detailed opinion besides the general sound signature. I guess it performs better than cheaper speakers, but probably won't reach higher tier ones that cost multiple times more. Actually this price range could be a sweet spot in terms of price/performance. (at other stores I've seen this speaker for 2x price so it's really quite well priced here at nsc, even with the shipping cost) Bass extension is really that good, I think you won't miss any subbass with these pair haha.


----------



## DBaldock9

Does anyone here have experience with these 15.4mm drivers?
They've got more, and larger, holes in the back-plate - which may allow for better Bass response.
Unfortunately, the listing doesn't mention their impedance.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32908881669.html


----------



## robar (Jan 4, 2020)

DBaldock9 said:


> Does anyone here have experience with these 15.4mm drivers?
> They've got more, and larger, holes in the back-plate - which may allow for better Bass response.
> Unfortunately, the listing doesn't mention their impedance.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32908881669.html


I haven't tried those unfortunately. This speaker (19-21khz bass 32ohm) has the best deepest bass from my collection at the moment, apart from the titanium. Really cheap, but it's regular mx500 cover though. (but the edge diameter is a bit tighter so it fits better on various shells) For me it's kind of an upgraded emx500, everything is a bit better especially bass  (sound signature-wise it's a bit more v shaped overall in identical circumstances)  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html


----------



## subwoof3r

DBaldock9 said:


> Does anyone here have experience with these 15.4mm drivers?
> They've got more, and larger, holes in the back-plate - which may allow for better Bass response.
> Unfortunately, the listing doesn't mention their impedance.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32908881669.html


By default, when impedence is not mentionned, I would bet they are 32 ohm  (better to ask seller for confirmation if possible)


----------



## robar (Jan 6, 2020)

Yesterday I played with the N50 driver and I found a way to tame the shouty mids and now it sound much much better and more natural. Now its a quite smooth, elegant sounding bud with wide soundstage, slight warm tilt, good (midbass dominant but good depth) bass, transparent highs.  I removed the foam from the speaker and replaced it with a regular thin mx500 tuning foam (I used one from ry4s ue but will try generic ones when they arrive) in its place, on the speaker directly in a way that the 1-1 hole on each side of the glued part is exposed. This is just a first experiment, I'll refine it further but this is quite a significant improvement, I really enjoy its sound  Replacing the foam is a bit finicky and tedious but if someone already has a set it's worth it. It's important to clean the glue residue from the stock foam around the holes. Will post pics about finished mod


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jan 6, 2020)

I've been reading around the DIY earbud stuff and am going to go for it. I am use to doing soldering work with guitar pickups and pots. These are smaller parts but nothing I cant handle.

I am mostly wondering what sound change a shell will make to the overall character of the driver. 

This is what I am going for the 15.4mm 600ohm Beryllium. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...4.0&pvid=3d8dce5b-0c81-461f-827a-b07108b0988c

Alternatively I know there is a 130ohm and the 400ohm(labeled as graphene). Anyone with experience with these drivers let me know if there really is any noticeable differences. I tend to like neutral and warm neutral sound signature. 

I've got proper amping etc. They all come with the basic plastic shells and I have plenty of spare wires to use, mostly 2pin but will just snip those ends off and use the leads.

Then there are these unfinished wooden mmcx shells https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000477388117.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.4c4a3c00oPooU6&mp=1

And then the ones I saw @DBaldock9 use with his build. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979868884.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.4c4a3c00oPooU6&mp=1

I'd like to not go over $60 and if there isn't really much difference in the 130 vs 400 vs 600ohm drivers I think I'd just go with the 130ohm with the brass/gold metal shells. However I am more than willing and happy to go with the 600ohm and those shells if it will be the best overall quality.  Any and all assistance is appreciated!


----------



## DBaldock9

headenvelopedinsound said:


> I've been reading around the DIY earbud stuff and am going to go for it. I am use to doing soldering work with guitar pickups and pots. These are smaller parts but nothing I cant handle.
> 
> I am mostly wondering what sound change a shell will make to the overall character of the driver.
> 
> ...



I decided to go with a lower profile MMCX connector, but then had to order a tap for them, since a metric tap with that thread pitch wasn't available at the local hardware stores.
My Homemade Beryllium Earbuds (600Ω, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$68.83 (Drivers = $43.20, Shells = $18.50, MMCX Jacks = $7.13)])
If you use the MMCX connectors that come with those metal shells, then your cost will be ~ $61.70.

I would suggest using glue on the threads, and nut, inside the shell - to be sure that the MMCX connector remains secure.

Typically, a smaller shell will reduce the level of the low Bass, compared to using the driver in a larger shell.
Also, the size, and open-ness, of the back venting will affect the Bass & Mid-Bass.


----------



## robar

headenvelopedinsound said:


> I've been reading around the DIY earbud stuff and am going to go for it. I am use to doing soldering work with guitar pickups and pots. These are smaller parts but nothing I cant handle.
> 
> I am mostly wondering what sound change a shell will make to the overall character of the driver.
> 
> ...


Every shell will have a very distinct character and it has a big effect not only on the achievable sound signatures but also on soundstage, transparency, dynamics etc. For example the transparent dp100 shell sound smaller, duller and a bit more congested with the same speakers compared to mx500, no matter what I do with it.They alter the fit as well, so for example the thickness of the front cover (mx500 plastic, steel mesh, mx760 etc) combined with the shell can be a factor too, for example with some shells the regular mx500 cover will provide too deep fit for my ears.  In my experience you can reach good tuning with any kind of decent shell, but you have to experiment with every unique combination of shell+speaker individually. I couldn't find a better overall shell in terms of sound quality than the regular matte opaque mx500 yet, it offers the best extension with the most neutral mids from those that I tried so far. Most smaller shells will cut down on bass extension and increase the upper mids, so finding a good matching driver is more crucial for these, otherwise basically you have to choose between bright mids + tight bass or smooth mids + soft bass in the tuning process. This is where the endless experimentation begins haha. Those 6-hole wood shells from NSC look interesting, I was thinking about try one. But you need to prepare that any kind of shell that is not generic plastic (like metal, wood etc) will probably need glue, and this will make your life harder if you want to constantly adjust the tuning like me.


----------



## HungryPanda

Always have a supply of B8000 or B7000 available


----------



## DBaldock9

robar said:


> ... Those 6-hole wood shells from NSC look interesting, I was thinking about try one. But you need to prepare that any kind of shell that is not generic plastic (like metal, wood etc) will probably need glue, and this will make your life harder if you want to constantly adjust the tuning like me.



I agree that those 6-hole wood shells look nice.
For my 400Ω Graphene drivers, I used wood shells - without MMCX, and with 3-holes [ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32956277065.html ].
They're wired with a Balanced 2.5mm TRRS cable from TRN.


----------



## DBaldock9

HungryPanda said:


> Always have a supply of B8000 or B7000 available



Is that like Double-Bubble?


----------



## HungryPanda

I use B8000 on plastic, B7000 on metal


----------



## GREQ (Jan 6, 2020)

Finally abandoned the stiff, oxidized silver cable on the Sabia V6 'Pearl' for ... a little bit extra.
The only thing left over from the Sabia is the drivers and damping, so it hasn't lost it's heart or soul.


 

I found these handmade brass MX500 shells for sale in the EA FB group.
I knew as soon as I saw them that I had to make this happen.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jan 6, 2020)

Great stuff guys thank you very much.  I think I am going to go ahead and price out getting all three shells and see how each sound. The wooden one is just $4.50 and comes with the little leads to boot.

Is there really a difference between the 400ohm Graphene and the 600ohm Beryllium?  Beside the obvious ohm difference. The 400ohm is $23 while the 600ohm is $35. I did find one source for a 130ohm beryllium for $16 but that appears to just be the driver only no shells and dampers, it seems a little to good to be true/kind of suspect.



DBaldock9 said:


> I decided to go with a lower profile MMCX connector, but then had to order a tap for them, since a metric tap with that thread pitch wasn't available at the local hardware stores.
> My Homemade Beryllium Earbuds (600Ω, Metal housing, 1x Dynamic, MMCX cable [$68.83 (Drivers = $43.20, Shells = $18.50, MMCX Jacks = $7.13)])
> If you use the MMCX connectors that come with those metal shells, then your cost will be ~ $61.70.
> 
> ...


----------



## DBaldock9

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Great stuff guys thank you very much.  I think I am going to go ahead and price out getting all three shells and see how each sound. The wooden one is just $4.50 and comes with the little leads to boot.
> 
> Is there really a difference between the 400ohm Graphene and the 600ohm Beryllium?  Beside the obvious ohm difference. The 400ohm is $23 while the 600ohm is $35. I did find one source for a 130ohm beryllium for $16 but that appears to just be the driver only no shells and dampers, it seems a little to good to be true/kind of suspect.



I'm listening to my 400Ω Graphene earbuds right now - and in the wood shells I linked above, they do not have nearly as much low Bass as the 600Ω Beryllium drivers in the metal shells, which I listened to most of yesterday.


----------



## waynes world

GREQ said:


> Finally abandoned the stiff, oxidized silver cable on the Sabia V6 'Pearl' for ... a little bit extra.
> The only thing left over from the Sabia is the drivers and damping, so it hasn't lost it's heart or soul.
> 
> 
> ...



I WANT THOSE! Very nice!


----------



## robar

The NSC store was very helpful, I messaged them with my problem about one of the titanium speakers, I also attached pics and measurements. They will send me a free replacement unit, and I ordered these 32ohm steel mesh speakers along with it, will post impressions when I receive it.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000312685982.html


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jan 7, 2020)

Great I feel really good about my purchase, it basically is exactly what you have done with your 600ohm build. I went ahead and ordered a few other things so I would be well stocked.

Just as reference I spent the same amount as the ToneKing TO600 sale price right now. Overall will I be getting greater benefits doing the DIY than just buying a stock TO600? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32921855042.html

*These are the parts I ended up with, if you see anything I missed or what not let me know.

Driver: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000541099253.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2a984c4dl3izej

Shell: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979868884.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2a984c4dl3izej

Flush MMCX with pre-soldered leads - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000541099253.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2a984c4dl3izej

This seemed to be the most economical option to get some horseshoe tuning foam: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981145439.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2a984c4dl3izej

I did go ahead and get those wood shells as well, after seller coupon they were just $2 so I'll use them for something fun later down the line.

If anyone knows of a good cheap source for a handful of tuning foam let me know, from what I saw that option I got was the cheapest even with the other shells included.

As far as tuning goes how does the foam shape the sound? Does it dampen the treble down and somewhat control the sound stage? I've got a lot of experience modding my M1060 planars with Fazors, Fuzzers, and different density and thickness of foam on the front and back of the driver. Does this knowledge carry over?

@DBaldock9 since I am basically copying your build what kind of tuning did you do in your shell as a starting ground for me?

Very excited to get into this aspect of audio. I've always changed out things with my guitars, my headphones, etc. Was getting bored with IEMs as they are not really able to be modded easily and for their cost I never felt like I wanted to try. My favorites are the Fearless S6Pro(best for stage and studio), Ety ER2XR, and Blon BL03 and happy with those as my end point. My Modded M1060 Planars have been really fun to mod into my idea of perfection, for me and my time investment/connection to them it's my end point. Treated/tuned my studio/office into near perfection with the JBL305/310 monitors and they are there for the long haul as well. NOW onto earbuds!!!




DBaldock9 said:


> I'm listening to my 400Ω Graphene earbuds right now - and in the wood shells I linked above, they do not have nearly as much low Bass as the 600Ω Beryllium drivers in the metal shells, which I listened to most of yesterday.


----------



## DBaldock9

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Great I feel really good about my purchase, it basically is exactly what you have done with your 600ohm build. I went ahead and ordered a few other things so I would be well stocked.
> 
> Just as reference I spent the same amount as the ToneKing TO600 sale price right now. Overall will I be getting greater benefits doing the DIY than just buying a stock TO600? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32921855042.html
> 
> ...



I believe that I just placed the 600Ω driver in the shell, without making any changes to the driver.
I don't think I added any additional damping material inside the shell.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 8, 2020)

Anyone know of any mmcx shell shaped like the K's earbuds for 14.8mm drivers?


----------



## DBaldock9 (Jan 8, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Anyone know of any mmcx shell shaped like the K's earbuds for 14.8mm drivers?



One search result on AliExpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33046806795.html


----------



## robar

How do you take out speakers from their cover? I have a pair of RY4S UE drivers that has damaged covers, and I would like to put them in dp100 covers. But I can't pull them out with my fingers and I'm afraid to damage the membrane with more aggressive methods.. Do you just grab a plier and pull them out, or is there a better/safer way?


----------



## krass76

Joining the pack, ordered the 600 ohm BE drivers.
Main purpose is to write some music on travels without having to constantly pack up my real headphones (been using Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohm for many years now).
I don't expect the DIY buds to outperform them but I hope they're reasonably useable. Hate IEMs.

for cables I chose cheap 14core copper with TPE sheathing (should be a soft cable). I personally don't believe the marketing wankery about silver (coated) cables. It may be important in the GHz band for radio stuff but at our measely 20kHz it can't make a difference as long as the cable has a small resistance and can conduct a bit of current.
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32825604088.html
for shells I ordered two RY4S earphones (cheap) and I'm going to replace the driver and cable in one to have a reference
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32762429040.html
for pads these were cheap. Going to remove the front on a pair to test them as rings (no foam between driver and eardrum)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20p...adset-Ear-Cover-Ear-bud-Tips/32974950142.html
for the "damping cotton" I bite myself that I paid the 3 bucks. I'll probably pull apart a cotton pad and just fill the shell with that, trying different ammounts of course.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/20p...16mm-Driver-Unit-for-MX500/4000130467733.html
I also ordered a VE Monk plus for comparison. I'm sure there is no magic going on there but maybe the shell is nice and I can transplant that driver into one of the cheap RY4S shells.

Oh and I'll be driving this from my good old RME interface so the 600 ohm are no big deal and the DAC quality is out of the question.
For portable use with my laptop I'll consider one of these USB sticks:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32932392383.html
They use SA9023A for USB communication, ES9018K2M for DAC and a TPA6113A2 for the headphone amplifier.
Not convinced about the clock jitter and analogue circuitry though.
Then again, the SA9023 does have a (unofficial) windows ASIO driver, which is important for latency in DAWs.
I'll first see how the onboard piece of sht audio codec in my laptop plays with the 600 ohm BE drivers but if my DT880 are anything to go by, it's pretty mushy and noisey on there.

This is just to write down my plan as long as it's still fresh. Shipping takes at least a month so I'll report back.

I could also measure the assembled earphone frequency response open-air, handheld into a measurement mic (but no artificial ear to simulate sealing or the resonances of that semi-closed system). From the plots on aliexpress, the 600 ohm drivers seemed pretty flat all the way up where the 130 ohm was uneven in the highs with a fat boost at 7k (sharpness lives here!).
130 ohm: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1bi43aO_1gK0jSZFqq6ApaXXaQ.jpg
600 ohm: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1gJh7bwmH3KVjSZKzq6z2OXXac.jpg
From the screenshots this is what they used: http://www.crysound.com/upload/2019/11/05/157293076921717v5xt.pdf
My setup is 100% not directed towards earphone analysis like their kit but maybe I can get some reasonable measurements, who knows?

Do you have any suggestions, for building them or experimenting? Anything essential I missed?


----------



## robar (Jan 12, 2020)

krass76 said:


> Joining the pack, ordered the 600 ohm BE drivers.
> Main purpose is to write some music on travels without having to constantly pack up my real headphones (been using Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohm for many years now).
> I don't expect the DIY buds to outperform them but I hope they're reasonably useable. Hate IEMs.
> 
> ...



I don't recommend using shells from existing earphones, especially from RY4S, because they are glued heavily and it's very hard to open them up. It's very likely that the glue will leave a nasty hard residue around the edge of the shell, even damage or chip it when you open it up. (I had ry4s ue, they use one of the strongest glue I encountered so far) It's much better to buy a set of mx500 shells, you get very nice matching tunings foams with them as well.

I'm not sure how your chosen 600ohm speaker looks like, but if it has preinstalled foam on it, then it's likely that you don't have to use additional tuning foam on the vents, maybe you can play around with thin tape, or replace the installed foam with a different one. Removing the installed foam is quite messy because it will leave  residue on the speaker which is hard to remove and it can get into the holes  and alter the sound, then stick into the tuning foam on the vents. But sometimes it's necessary to do this but I wouldn't try this out the first time on an expensive set of speakers.

I had that kind of foiled tpe cable, it's ok but you can buy much better ones for about the same price. (in terms of material quality and sturdiness) There are identical cables as well with brown coating that cost less than 1usd. For finding decent and cheap cables I can recommend RY, Jietu and 3C accessories store.

I would suggest to buy some cheap speakers as well to practice with the tuning, if you adjust the build a lot it's very easy to damage the speakers or wear out the front cover (the snapping will get loose and it will introduce channel imbalances if you dont glue it down), then you have to wait a lot for the next shipment to arrive. For foams I can recommend Trig Rain, they are good quality especially the donuts, I use those on 90% of my buds.

set of mx500 shells
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981145439.html
BTW my favorite ones are those that are included with speakers, they have better finish and gentler edge for snapping.


----------



## HungryPanda

I got 5 pairs of shells at a reasonable price lately

https://a.aliexpress.com/XgNdHvBMn


----------



## krass76

Hly sht thanks robar! Didn't expect so much useful advice! Now I kinda wish I had come here first!
Originally I wanted a transparent shell but apparently I can't get them shipped to my country.
Also: What would you look for in a good cable? Would you recommend anything? Don't need any remote or microphone on it.


----------



## robar (Jan 12, 2020)

krass76 said:


> Hly sht thanks robar! Didn't expect so much useful advice! Now I kinda wish I had come here first!
> Originally I wanted a transparent shell but apparently I can't get them shipped to my country.
> Also: What would you look for in a good cable? Would you recommend anything? Don't need any remote or microphone on it.


I'm not entirely sure but I kinda think transparent shells sound worse (duller with shallower bass) compared to solid ones. If you're interested in transparent ones I suggest to buy solid version as well to compare the sound.
I'm not big on cables (yet), only tried sub 5usd ones but I prefer a more solid sturdy plug with strain relief, and a bit more cores which will make the exposed line easier to solder/sturdier. I do tend to prefer TPE coating especially with non twisted cables because it's softer and less harmful (to environment and health) compared to PVC, but it's mostly a matter of taste, pvc is probably more resistant to wear and tear. I use both tpe and pvc. I've recently used the basic twisted tpe cables from the B40's (which I disassembled), for me they look and feel nice, and you can buy cables like those for about 3-4usd.

RY store has nice twisted cables with good plugs for about 4usd. I personally have RY C10 but you can choose from multiple versions:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/cable/1850191_507099169.html

I haven't tried these cables yet but they are on my list (I plan to buy some cheap cables in the close future, probably after the chinese new year)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000449129490.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32977594677.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976676156.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32834774360.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978985854.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32997959582.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978973896.html

For more premium cables, ask other more experienced members, you can even make your own (braid + solder plug) if you have the interest in such things.


----------



## HungryPanda

I actually just made a few oairs of trransparent buds and they sound awesome


----------



## robar (Jan 12, 2020)

HungryPanda said:


> I actually just made a few oairs of trransparent buds and they sound awesome


That's great, what parts have you used? It's totally possible to build great sounding stuff with transparent shells , I didn't mean that it isn't. I actually built a quite nice pair with transparent dp100 shells and emx500 speakers yesterday, I had to experiment with the tuning a lot but it's quite neutral now with a bit of treble brightness (inherent trait of the speaker) But so far I haven't heard any bud with deep tight punchy bass in perfectly transparent shells, as if the transparent shell just soaks up and softens the low end compared to solid ones. Although I'm not very experienced, this is just a general observation of mine.  But there are very real differences between mx500 shells, for example the ones from the sets and the ones that are bundled with speakers sound definitely different, both are black but with different finish and outer edge. I've just received my set of 5 and compared to the bundled ones, swapped some speakers as well (N50) but the sound changed. I'll experiment more but at the moment I prefer the bundled type, though the snapping is not as tight (more gentle on the front cover though) but the sound is smoother in the upper mids


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jan 12, 2020)

Excited for you and your ventures. Look back on this page a bit and you'll see my final build supplies. The 600ohm drivers I ordered come with a shell included. I also went ahead and ordered a $5 32Ohm N50 kit to practice on before I do the expensive driver. They don't have clear but this is also something you could consider as it comes with shells and foam tuning supplies. 5 pair for $2.90 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981145439.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2a984c4dl3izej&dp=a32d35411caa497e39289f161f954454&dp=a32d35411caa497e39289f161f954454&af=240682&af=240682&cv=47843&cv=47843&afref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fthreads%2Fdiy-earbuds.822327%2Fpage-86&afref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fthreads%2Fdiy-earbuds.822327%2Fpage-86&mall_affr=pr3&mall_affr=pr3&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1578858592748&sk=VnYZvQVf&aff_trace_key=5acd91fbb64340c7b97dd6ce306cf17e-1578858592748-02996-VnYZvQVf&terminal_id=d57c6ae156824f2eab096f3ba4daf827





krass76 said:


> Joining the pack, ordered the 600 ohm BE drivers.
> Main purpose is to write some music on travels without having to constantly pack up my real headphones (been using Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohm for many years now).
> I don't expect the DIY buds to outperform them but I hope they're reasonably useable. Hate IEMs.
> 
> ...


----------



## robar (Jan 14, 2020)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Excited for you and your ventures. The 600ohm drivers I ordered come with a shell included. I also went ahead and ordered a $5 32Ohm N50 kit to practice on before I do the expensive driver. They don't have clear but this is also something you could consider as it comes with shells and foam tuning supplies. 5 pair for $2.90 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981145439.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2a984c4dl3izej&dp=a32d35411caa497e39289f161f954454&dp=a32d35411caa497e39289f161f954454&af=240682&af=240682&cv=47843&cv=47843&afref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fthreads%2Fdiy-earbuds.822327%2Fpage-86&afref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.head-fi.org%2Fthreads%2Fdiy-earbuds.822327%2Fpage-86&mall_affr=pr3&mall_affr=pr3&aff_platform=aaf&cpt=1578858592748&sk=VnYZvQVf&aff_trace_key=5acd91fbb64340c7b97dd6ce306cf17e-1578858592748-02996-VnYZvQVf&terminal_id=d57c6ae156824f2eab096f3ba4daf827



If you'll remove the installed tuning foam from the N50, this might be interesting to you: I experimented quite a bit with the N50 and I like this setting the most at the moment: I put the thin tuning foam bundled with the dp100 shell (should be roughly similar to the ones you get from set of mx500 shells, haven't compared those directly) so that 2 holes are exposed only around the blob of glue. Then I put the speaker back to the bundled shell with nothing on the vents. You can try upwards and downwards orientation (where the blob of glue looks), the sound will be different, mostly the upper mids change. I prefer the orientation with smoother mids (not sure which was it, will check), the sound now will be a bit warm with good midbass, smooth natural mids and wide airy soundstage.
(EDIT: so I experimented more, and actually leaving the speaker bare and putting regular mx500 tuning vents on the bundled mx500 shell is very nice. Tighter, cleaner and more linear, but brighten. Then I put back the tuning foam from ry4s ue in the same position as in the pic and it's even better, it's tight and smooth. very interesting)


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

robar said:


> If you'll remove the installed tuning foam from the N50, this might be interesting to you: I experimented quite a bit with the N50 and I like this setting the most at the moment: I put the thin tuning foam bundled with the dp100 shell (should be roughly similar to the ones you get from set of mx500 shells, haven't compared those directly) so that 2 holes are exposed only around the blob of glue. Then I put the speaker back to the bundled shell with nothing on the vents. You can try upwards and downwards orientation (where the blob of glue looks), the sound will be different, mostly the upper mids change. I prefer the orientation with smoother mids (not sure which was it, will check), the sound now will be a bit warm with good midbass, smooth natural mids and wide airy soundstage.


 Nice I'll try that. I was planning on putting them in those wooden shells I got but can still experiment. Since my KBear Knights have the 32ohm N52 drivers I figured getting the N50s would be nice to see the difference. I don't mind the Knights but they definitely have a 2khz hump that makes things sound a bit to nasal/honky.  But for a first bud outside of the free Applebuds I am happy with them. I have a feeling I'll be getting some more drivers as I go deeper into this rabbit hole


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> It's totally possible to build great sounding stuff with transparent shells , I didn't mean that it isn't.


I made few transparent MX500 shells mod in the past and decided to continue my mods in the standard black shells because generally black shells are much better well made and finished (no holes in the bass port that we can generally find in colored ones like the white shells for exemple), but also because transparent sound with a bit more of reasonance inside the shells, to me is sounds a bit different. Also, I find that transparent shells are better to be leaved stock, because when we pierce some tuning holes it makes them a bit ugly after (especially MMCX mods where you can completey see the ugly screwing).
But I have to agree that leaved stock, those shells could look great directly wired.


----------



## robar (Jan 13, 2020)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Nice I'll try that. I was planning on putting them in those wooden shells I got but can still experiment. Since my KBear Knights have the 32ohm N52 drivers I figured getting the N50s would be nice to see the difference. I don't mind the Knights but they definitely have a 2khz hump that makes things sound a bit to nasal/honky.  But for a first bud outside of the free Applebuds I am happy with them. I have a feeling I'll be getting some more drivers as I go deeper into this rabbit hole


 I experimented more with the N50, and actually leaving the speaker bare and putting regular mx500 tuning vents (that come with sets of mx500 shells) on the bundled (!) shell is very nice. Tighter, cleaner and more linear, (especially the bass). If the setup above is warm and smooth, this is sort of neutral. And it's much more reliable in keeping the sound signature, because the method shown on the pic is very sensitive to the rotation of the speaker in the shell. (this was the reason why I started to experiment again) Vocals get a crispy treatment this way, compared to the softer thicker rendition of the method above. They're a bit bright in the lower treble - this is the only thing that bothers me.  Denser full foam brings it very close to my preference, actually with the full foam of faaeal z-sound it sounds impressive and quite accurate. I'll test it further because this is just my first impressions

BTW I'm not sure if the N52 speaker is that same as what the Knight has. N52 is just a type of magnet, it doesn't necessarily indicate how the speaker performs. I tried the N52 from aliexpress though, actually I have both of them side by side at the moment in same tuning setup, and the N50 is definitely better in my experience. More natural, organic, but the n52 is less prone to upper mid /lower treble harshness (maybe the plastic front cover dampens it)



subwoof3r said:


> I made few transparent MX500 shells mod in the past and decided to continue my mods in the standard black shells because generally black shells are much better well made and finished (no holes in the bass port that we can generally find in colored ones like the white shells for exemple), but also because transparent sound with a bit more of reasonance inside the shells, to me is sounds a bit different. Also, I find that transparent shells are better to be leaved stock, because when we pierce some tuning holes it makes them a bit ugly after (especially MMCX mods where you can completey see the ugly screwing).
> But I have to agree that leaved stock, those shells could look great directly wired.


Thanks for sharing very interesting! I haven't opened bass ports yet on mx500, I'm not sure where should it go. I noticed that the shells of white vido and fengru tc200 react very different to the same tuning setup compared to other ones. (much more v shaped, deeper bass) I'm not sure if it's because of a different port (it's possible but I haven't noticed an added hole inside) but they definitely sound vastly different to other types of shell


----------



## krass76

So I had a bit of time to look through ali, for cable:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32997959582.html
Conductors seem to be nice and thick, should keep resistance and inductance low, sheathing is flat TPE so it should be soft and easy to untangle.
Is this a good cable or would you prefer the woven-style cables, like these:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/33004651768.html
For MX500 shells I found these:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/33008077712.html
But also there are PK2 shells I've seen you guys use on here, are they worth the extra cost?
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/2046553820.html
I do want to go towards linear (as possible) frequency response with the 600 ohm BE drivers.


----------



## HungryPanda

Pk shells use smaller 14.8 mm drivers. All of those cables seem ok


----------



## robar (Jan 14, 2020)

krass76 said:


> So I had a bit of time to look through ali, for cable:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32997959582.html
> Conductors seem to be nice and thick, should keep resistance and inductance low, sheathing is flat TPE so it should be soft and easy to untangle.
> Is this a good cable or would you prefer the woven-style cables, like these:
> ...



You can buy both the mx500 and pk shells for much much cheaper at cklewis. (or any other store really)
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Ear-Cap-Ear-Hook-Clips/1727211_511017300.html

In my experience woven/twisted cables tangle more easily, so if you're on the go it can be frustrating. But they are easier to pack because they don't want to unwind so hard as straight cables. You have to try both to see what is your preference haha.
The TPE cable you linked could be nice because of the extra length. I will buy this instead however, the same cable in regular length but with metal plug and splitter.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000449129490.html
One of the best thing about RY store is that you can make custom orders and configure the cables however you want, so you can ask  him to make custom length, or any combination of cable/plug you want, check out his listing about custom orders if you're interested.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32951814983.html


Funny, I put back the tuning foams from ry4sue on the N50 as shown on the pic, and now it sounds even better, the tight linear profile remained and the brightness has gone. Now it's amazing, definitely a keeper. This hobby feels like gambling too often haha.


----------



## caracal (Jan 14, 2020)

I don't know if it affects sound much, but noticed that pk shells from CKLewis lack tuning foams on the back vents (compared to these overpriced 3 pairs).
Maybe it's possible to find some for these vents or cut some out of those that have extra foam in the center of "horseshoe" part.



robar said:


> Funny, I put back the tuning foams from ry4sue on the N50 as shown on the pic, and now it sounds even better, the tight linear profile remained and the brightness has gone. Now it's amazing, definitely a keeper. This hobby feels like gambling too often haha.


You put tuning foams directly from ry4s ue drivers and they didn't tear apart?


----------



## robar (Jan 14, 2020)

caracal said:


> I don't know if it affects sound much, but noticed that pk shells from CKLewis lack tuning foams on the back vents (compared to these overpriced 3 pairs).
> Maybe it's possible to find some for these vents or cut some out of those that have extra foam in the center of "horseshoe" part.
> 
> 
> You put tuning foams directly from ry4s ue drivers and they didn't tear apart?


I'm not sure where exactly you can buy PK-style tuning foam but I've seen somewhere. Maybe it was too expensive this is why I haven't bookmarked it lol. This difficulty with tuning is why I haven't played with pk shells yet. Even if you get these foams, it's very hard to install them in the same way twice, and they easily get loose and create imbalance. I played around quite a bit with the B40 and sr2 tuning foams but they wore down quickly. I'll try to revive them with double sided tape on the edges. Maybe the micropore tape that others recommended here is the solution, I only tried the sticky part of medical tape, the middle of horseshoe foams and paper masking tape but those didn't work well.

I just removed the horseshoe foam from the vents of my ry4s ue. It is simple diy horseshoe similar to what we can buy, not that heavily glued type that vido has. It's the last working thing remained from my ry4s ue, almost everything else is damaged or died after the many tests so I'm happy I got some use from it after all haha.  It has slightly different dampening effect compared to the other ones, and luckily it worked pretty well on the n50.
But you can build nice things in many ways, need to experiment a lot.  And I have high expectations nowadays, I want everything to be as good as possible  haha. N50 was a bit hard for me because it has pretty nice potential but it's not very powerful in the bass department so balancing out everything and keeping it close to natural was a challenge. But however you tune it, it will always have better timbre in the same setup compared to emx500 or n52 or the 19-21 bass for example, those have a kind of cheap thin character in the mids. (maybe because of their extra brightness between 5-10khz) I'm not saying those are not good speakers, but they don't have the same potential for achieving accurate mids in my opinion. Maybe the type of front cover plays a role here as well. This is why I've put extra effort into the N50, it's not perfect of course but for the price I'm quite impressed, I really wanted to make a bud with neutral natural vocals and decent bass. My only minor complaint would be the average bass extension and some sharpness around 7-8khz (with minor eq adjustment and full foams it's perfect). I'm really looking forward to the 64ohm titanium and the other steel mesh I ordered, I hope they provide same natural timbre with increased bass extension


----------



## HungryPanda

I use a pair of angled tweezers to position the foams in PK shells, I have even seen pictures of electrical tape being used in some quite expensive earbuds


----------



## assassin10000

I use angled tweezers to position small cut pieces of 3m micropore "paper" tape (breathable) and a needle to make holes to tune the response.


----------



## HungryPanda

a sheet of PK foams


----------



## subwoof3r

My first new MX500 MMCX prototype shell is born yesterday 
Please don't mind about the scratches as its just a prototype ^^
It required me to throw 3 shells just to success this one, now I think I'm ready to make the final ones.
There is some efforts and precision to do that but at least I think its the perfect look and ergonomics like this for these shells.


----------



## subwoof3r

Oh, btw forgot to tell but I ordered since 5th january those drivers :

15.4mm Titanium Membrane 64 Ohm Headphone DIY Speaker Unit Super Bass Headphone Drivers / https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000220039317.html
Headphone DIY 15.4mm Speaker Unit 32 Ohm Heavy Bass Headphone Loudspeakers DIY 98.5dB / https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html
I stay you guys tuned for my impressions once they arrives


----------



## robar

HungryPanda said:


> a sheet of PK foams


Nice, where did you buy those tuning foams?



subwoof3r said:


> Oh, btw forgot to tell but I ordered since 5th january those drivers :
> 
> 15.4mm Titanium Membrane 64 Ohm Headphone DIY Speaker Unit Super Bass Headphone Drivers / https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000220039317.html
> Headphone DIY 15.4mm Speaker Unit 32 Ohm Heavy Bass Headphone Loudspeakers DIY 98.5dB / https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html
> I stay you guys tuned for my impressions once they arrives


I'll be interested in your impressions, as I have both!  Hopefully the replacement for the titanium 64ohm will arrive soon. I ordered this as well: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000312685982.html

By the way, how do you like the 150ohm from cklewis? After I get a better dac/amp in the future, I will want to try a cheaper medium impedance speaker to check the drive power.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983256142.html

Also I'm really interested in these, I guess nobody tried them so far
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000443651531.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000177042681.html
hopefully these will be available for less money in the future, looks very interesting, 32ohm titanium bass speakers:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000548907020.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000444169392.html


----------



## caracal

HungryPanda said:


> a sheet of PK foams


These are for the drivers or for the vents? Or do you cut them in half? They don't look like those on the pricey shells.


----------



## robar (Jan 16, 2020)

caracal said:


> These are for the drivers or for the vents? Or do you cut them in half? They don't look like those on the pricey shells.


These are for the vents of various shells, for example PK but many others (usually 14.8mm) as well. These on the pic do have slightly different shape, I've seen almost square-shaped ones installed mostly


----------



## HungryPanda

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32705387792.html   I also use the bits left in the middle from the horseshoe tuning foams to block PK  and other shells vents


----------



## robar

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32705387792.html   I also use the bits left in the middle from the horseshoe tuning foams to block PK  and other shells vents


Thanks for the link, so pricey lol. I tried those middle bits as well but for the B40 shells (only 1 vent open on top) they didn't work well, only the regular foams which has only glue on the edges. Also I'm a bit cautious as they have glue on the exposed part as well, so I guess they will collect dust like crazy.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> By the way, how do you like the 150ohm from cklewis?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983256142.html


They were my previous reference just before the 130 ohm beryllium arrived  loved them, I think they were of my first steps to real DIY "world of quality" 
I think I should make some new MX500 shells and solder them again (just to remember how they performs)



robar said:


> hopefully these will be available for less money in the future, looks very interesting, 32ohm titanium bass speakers:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000548907020.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000444169392.html


Interesting! the first looks better (not sure why, the second link looks more common. They all says 32 ohm titanium, looks like its a common description but not sure they are real titanium for some sellers)


----------



## robar (Jan 16, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> They were my previous reference just before the 130 ohm beryllium arrived  loved them, I think they were of my first steps to real DIY "world of quality"
> I think I should make some new MX500 shells and solder them again (just to remember how they performs)
> 
> 
> Interesting! the first looks better (not sure why, the second link looks more common. They all says 32 ohm titanium, looks like its a common description but not sure they are real titanium for some sellers)


I'll probably try those 150ohms then  The photos are somewhat confusing on that listing at cklewis, I suppose this is the same and the pics here show how it looks in real life, isn't it? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979616405.html

I think those 32ohm titaniums might be the lower impedance versions of the 64ohm titanium we ordered. The two looks the same to me just with different covers. I'd be especially interested in the steel mesh version, but these have the regular 2x price treatment of those stores I think (they sell the 64ohm for 15usd as well, which is 6usd at nsc), so I'll wait and hope these will appear in the inventory of nsc or jietu store. :


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> I'll probably try those 150ohms then  The photos are somewhat confusing on that listing at cklewis, I suppose this is the same and the pics here show how it looks in real life, isn't it? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979616405.html


Yup, just checked, I confirm its the exact same drivers that used 
I don't think there is any other better 150ohm drivers yet, but maybe somewhere else than ali ^^
I still think you'd better to grab 130 ohm beryllium instead. Most of 150ohm+ drivers in 15.4mm I tried for now are way too warm (especially the 500ohm beryllium ones). It's like the more impedence and the warmer you'll get (based on my experience), lol


----------



## robar (Jan 17, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> Yup, just checked, I confirm its the exact same drivers that used
> I don't think there is any other better 150ohm drivers yet, but maybe somewhere else than ali ^^
> I still think you'd better to grab 130 ohm beryllium instead. Most of 150ohm+ drivers in 15.4mm I tried for now are way too warm (especially the 500ohm beryllium ones). It's like the more impedence and the warmer you'll get (based on my experience), lol


That's good to hear thanks  I don't plan to buy the beryllium, I don't want any speaker made with that material and it's too expensive as well. About the warm high impedance speakers: I think I've already brought this up once, but are you sure the extra warmth is not due to inadequate driving power? In my experience stuff tend to sound warm and soft when my source is not enough. I'm not really sure about the reasons behind such high impedance speakers either, like 400-600ohm - what's the point really? Can't manufacturers create an similar performing speaker at max 150ohm? I'm sure there are better and worse speakers in such high impedances as well, then isn't it better to buy a very good lower impedance speaker than let's say buying an average 500ohm one? (of course maybe there aren't any top quality low impedance speakers available on ali)


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> That's good to hear thanks  I don't plan to buy the beryllium, I don't want any speaker made with that material and it's too expensive as well. About the warm high impedance speakers: I think I've already brought this up once, but are you sure the extra warmth is not due to inadequate driving power? In my experience stuff tend to sound warm and soft when my source is not enough. I'm not really sure about the reasons behind such high impedance speakers either, like 400-600ohm - what's the point really? Can't manufacturers create an similar performing speaker at max 150ohm? I'm sure there are better and worse speakers in such high impedances as well, then isn't it better to buy a very good lower impedance speaker than let's say buying an average 500ohm one? (of course maybe there aren't any top quality low impedance speakers available on ali)


I drived my 500 ohm into my Fostex HP-A8C dac/amp which can drive anything up to 600ohm, the results were way too warm (for my tastes) but I need to try into my ES100 in max power output (via balanced mode which needs to be 300ohm minimum, never tried this step yet, so it could be interesting)


----------



## robar (Jan 17, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> I drived my 500 ohm into my Fostex HP-A8C dac/amp which can drive anything up to 600ohm, the results were way too warm (for my tastes) but I need to try into my ES100 in max power output (via balanced mode which needs to be 300ohm minimum, never tried this step yet, so it could be interesting)


It could also be something related to the tuning? I don't have experience with such high impedance speakers but I'm sure a frequency response measurement would reveal interesting things. It might need different dampening than other speakers. Warmth for me at least is an abundance of freqs around 200-600hz


----------



## Themilkman46290

Finally got the 600ohm, was tuning, and one of the drivers simply stopped

Should I bother with a dispute or is it all on me at this point?


----------



## HungryPanda

unlucky


----------



## Themilkman46290

I am heart broken, saved money for a wile... They sounded pretty awesome


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

robar said:


> That's good to hear thanks  I don't plan to buy the beryllium, I don't want any speaker made with that material and it's too expensive as well. About the warm high impedance speakers: I think I've already brought this up once, but are you sure the extra warmth is not due to inadequate driving power? In my experience stuff tend to sound warm and soft when my source is not enough. I'm not really sure about the reasons behind such high impedance speakers either, like 400-600ohm - what's the point really? Can't manufacturers create an similar performing speaker at max 150ohm? I'm sure there are better and worse speakers in such high impedances as well, then isn't it better to buy a very good lower impedance speaker than let's say buying an average 500ohm one? (of course maybe there aren't any top quality low impedance speakers available on ali)



Here is a good explanation of why different ohms "matter" to a point. He does a far better explanation than I could, with actual tests to show how each of them behave. DT880 32, 250, and 600ohm. https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones


----------



## robar (Jan 17, 2020)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Here is a good explanation of why different ohms "matter" to a point. He does a far better explanation than I could, with actual tests to show how each of them behave. DT880 32, 250, and 600ohm. https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones


Thanks for the link, yes I'm familiar with the concept of damping factor. However in my opinion this is more about matching your equipment well especially with these random oem chinese speakers. With most portable dacs having way less than 1ohm output usually, I'm not sure if this has any significance in most cases.. (the innerfidelity article used a roughly 2ohm output for the example, and even there the difference between 250 and 600ohm was minor) Why not use a less than 0.5ohm output with low impedance speaker to match the damping factor of the high impedance + amp setup and then compare? For me earbuds are portable devices and I'm a bit skeptical that the minor theoretical advantage of let's say a 500ohm speaker has over 150ohm outweighs the difference between actual speaker models and what it looses in a typical use case by driving it with small less ideal gear, adding the poor isolation etc.

While this article compare supposedly the same speaker design with different impedance, I was more interested in comparing the price/performance of actual speakers we can buy for aliexpress. I get interested in this because there seems to be a craze about very high impedance earbuds lately, while the most of today's high tier earbuds seem to be even less than 50ohm. I did a quick check: Turandot: 16ohm, Bell Ti: 30ohm, ST10: 45ohm, M1Pro:  32ohm, Chaconne: 24ohm, Liebesleid: 24ohm.
Do these 300-600ohm speakers from ali really worth their price? Are there a lack of high quality low impedance speakers that could match their performance? Or this is just the cool factor of big numbers and having something to justify the big amps at home for these small earbuds?
I'm aware that many people here already own the big amps and therefore it's a no brainer to try some highs impedance stuff even just for fun. But building an earbud audio setup from scratch concentrating on audio quality, isn't it better to just focus on max 150(-300ohm) gear with low output impedance source and make the most out of it?


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

Themilkman46290 said:


> Finally got the 600ohm, was tuning, and one of the drivers simply stopped
> 
> Should I bother with a dispute or is it all on me at this point?


 
Did you test them before putting the soldering iron to them? Check the ohm levels etc? If you did and it measured correctly...


robar said:


> Thanks for the link, yes I'm familiar with the concept of damping factor. However in my opinion this is more about matching your equipment well especially with these random oem chinese speakers. With most portable dacs having way less than 1ohm output usually, I'm not sure if this has any significance in most cases.. (the innerfidelity article used a roughly 2ohm output for the example, and even there the difference between 250 and 600ohm was minor) Why not use a less than 0.5ohm output with low impedance speaker to match the damping factor of the high impedance + amp setup and then compare? For me earbuds are portable devices and I'm a bit skeptical that the minor theoretical advantage of let's say a 500ohm speaker has over 150ohm outweighs the difference between actual speaker models and what it looses in a typical use case by driving it with small less ideal gear, adding the poor isolation etc.
> 
> While this article compare supposedly the same speaker design with different impedance, I was more interested in comparing the price/performance of actual speakers we can buy for aliexpress. I get interested in this because there seems to be a craze about very high impedance earbuds lately, while the most of today's high tier earbuds seem to be even less than 50ohm. I did a quick check: Turandot: 16ohm, Bell Ti: 30ohm, ST10: 45ohm, M1Pro:  32ohm, Chaconne: 24ohm, Liebesleid: 24ohm.
> Do these 300-600ohm speakers from ali really worth their price? Are there a lack of high quality low impedance speakers that could match their performance? Or this is just the cool factor of big numbers and having something to justify the big amps at home for these small earbuds?
> I'm aware that many people here already own the big amps and therefore it's a no brainer to try some highs impedance stuff even just for fun. But building an earbud audio setup from scratch concentrating on audio quality, isn't it better to just focus on max 150(-300ohm) gear with low output impedance source and make the most out of it?



Yeah I am curious about the same thing. IEMs for me are for onstage and sometimes studio. As well as biking and running in a known area. Buds are new to me but really like the concept and overall "benefit" of not having my ear plugged up. I can sit and be with my family while listening to music as well as at work. So for me not so much portable yet still need to be practical. My Helix or Forte have no issue driving high impedance drivers but I know my iPhone XS has no chance to properly drive something like a 200-600ohm driver. I am very excited for the Qudelix 5K to come out(which should be in a couple months) as it will easily drive high impudence drivers in balanced. The nice thing, to me, about ear buds is the price is so low comparative to IEMs I can experiment with them a bit more freely.


----------



## subwoof3r

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Did you test them before putting the soldering iron to them? Check the ohm levels etc? If you did and it measured correctly...


Measuring 600 ohm requires high-end multimeter I would say.
Mine can measure up to 150 max.
Otherwise yes, personally this is the first thing I generally do when I receive every of my new drivers, just to be sure they works already before soldering them


----------



## assassin10000

Since I couldn't find a good K's style mmcx earbud housing, I decided to attempt to mod my K's LBB to mmcx.

It was very frustrating and time consuming waiting for tools. 

Getting the drivers free wasn't hard. The problem is the small 'stems' are not one piece with the housing. They are lightly press fit, almost a slip fit. So when trying to tap threads for the mmcx connector they spin and pop out.

I ended up using the 3 jaw chuck of my drill to hold the little stems to finish tapping them. It ruined the original finish. Fortunately a diamond file and a black sharpie got it close enough for now.


----------



## subwoof3r

So I made few interesting experimentations the past few days and the great news is that my 500ohm beryllium drivers are sounding much better than before now (my main issue is that they sounded way too warm for my tastes), the trick is that they don’t requires at all any mod into the shells (no bass holes at all) so avoid the exagerated warmness, also, its best to let a full classic tuning foam shoes inside MX500 shells, so it can cover almost all the driver side.

So to sum-up, they already sounds their best directly is classic standard MX500 shells (confirmed during both my wired and MMCX test shells).

It also requires high-end amping for best results. I finally switched the upper step of my ES100 in balanced mode and it sounds better than the normal mode (better voltage).

The result of these drivers is still a bit warmish (but more controlled), but mids are definitely forwarded, it’s like an inversed V shape. Intimate sounding with deep soundstage (not very large), some details (could be better but much enjoyment there already).
Cheers'


----------



## Themilkman46290

subwoof3r said:


> So I made few interesting experimentations the past few days and the great news is that my 500ohm beryllium drivers are sounding much better than before now (my main issue is that they sounded way too warm for my tastes), the trick is that they don’t requires at all any mod into the shells (no bass holes at all) so avoid the exagerated warmness, also, its best to let a full classic tuning foam shoes inside MX500 shells, so it can cover almost all the driver side.
> 
> So to sum-up, they already sounds their best directly is classic standard MX500 shells (confirmed during both my wired and MMCX test shells).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the details, I talked to nsc store on AE and they were able to explain, the 500ohm has most bass, 600ohm best Soundstage, and 130ohm best details

Next I plan on ordering the 400ohm graphene, see what they sound like

Anybody tried reshelling yurbuds?

I had an old pair (got them free) hated the way they sounded so I ripped them apart and stuffed the 130ohm into them, seems the more room inside the shells, the better, sub bass has gotten a big boost, but everything else is not ruined or muddied by it


----------



## subwoof3r

Hi guys, proud to present you my new MX500 shell modding creation ⚡️


----------



## GREQ

subwoof3r said:


> Hi guys, proud to present you my new MX500 shell modding creation ⚡️


Nice preservation of L & R 
This looks more elegant than the other ones I've seen that just cut and sand the bottom clean off.


----------



## robar (Jan 27, 2020)

I've been working on some projects as well but I wasn't so lucky most times sadly. For example,  I've received this bud with h180-looking shells for DIY builds. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32882471978.html While the bud itself is quite decent, the shell is not compatible with 15.4mm speakers, the diameter is slightly too small unfortunately. (the usual problem - too small for 15.4mm but too large for 14.8mm so I can't use it for anything) The speakers in it could be useful but it stopped working after desoldering, I think the unusual loose hair wires got damaged.
I received the replacement for the titanium 64ohm, it works well fortunately, but I'm still in the process of experimenting so I'll write impressions later. However the steel mesh I ordered with it is faulty again on one side. I also experimented with vido speakers in dp100 front cover with interesting results, I'll update on it in the future as well.

(edit) If someone knows a cheap source of 15.4mm compatible h180-style shells pls share haha


----------



## subwoof3r

Look what I finally received today! 
  

..experimentations will begin tonight ^^


----------



## Themilkman46290

subwoof3r said:


> Look what I finally received today!
> 
> 
> ..experimentations will begin tonight ^^


Cool, I been watching those 64 ohm for a while, fill us in later, very curious to hear your opinion, how are they compared to the 130ohm, or 150 ohm


----------



## robar (Jan 28, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> Look what I finally received today!
> 
> 
> ..experimentations will begin tonight ^^


Great! I'm very interested in your impressions. The 32ohm sounds very nice in qian69 shell (U shaped sig with incredible bass) and I guess it works well in most smaller shells that usually benefit from a boost in bass and treble. In mx500 shell it's a bit bright and aggressive for me.

I received the replacement 64ohm titanium few days ago and I've been playing around with it recently. In mx500 shell with regular horseshoe (both from the usual set of 5) the bass extension is the best I've heard so far and there is absolutely zero brightness or harshness in the upper mids, and the response is very smooth. However the frequencies above 2khz are dark and soft compared to what I usually hear. The treble definition is a far cry from the N50 so far. I'm not sure if it's because insufficient drive from my gear or it needs special tuning. I'll definitely play with tuning more, I guess thicker type or double layering will bring forward the upper freqs. I'll try some solutions and post if I've found something useful.  It will be interesting to read your experience with your powerful amp, maybe it's an important factor as well. Based on my measurement alone I think it should sound more balanced than what I hear.

So at the moment, from my collection of speakers the best bass goes to the titanium 64 and the best treble for the N50. Now I have to find something that is great at both haha. I ordered the steel mesh from ghxamp that looks like your favorite 32ohm speaker. (basically looks like an emx500 in a thin steel mesh) I hope it will be something in the middle.

Btw I played around with different cover types and they have a very strong effect on the overall sound in my experience. Steel mesh and dp100 covers make the treble more neutral, darker (above 6khz, in some shells it might be too much) and more airy/transparent with wider soundstage. (edit: but I noticed that upper mids tend to be more hot - but this doesn't really show on the graph, it's maybe due to the added pressure from the additional holes and it might have something to do with the deeper fit in the ears as well) It would be really nice to move something like emx500 or 19-21khz  bass speakers into steel mesh covers, but I'm afraid the process would destroy the membrane, so I only experimented with vidos so far.


----------



## subwoof3r (Jan 29, 2020)

So first impressions of these two drivers are very good overall, had not enough time to experiment yesterday night but I already made some « OK sounding »  (at least for the work where I’m currently listening to them).
They are pretty good DIY drivers for various experimentations, they are easily tunable and responds well to shell modding.

The 32ohm has a warmer sounding, V shaped with a bit recessed mids (like a slight veil), but bass are very good (a bit of distortion) with nice sub-bass touch, everything is very balanced to me (its a polite « V » not really marked/exagerated). Highs keeps a nice touch of details and enjoyment (a bit softened thought).
Depending to the dampening foams used, holes into shells etc (classic modding), we can achieve a very good entry level pair, for sure).

The 64 ohm titanium drivers follows a bit the 32 ohm story but with an much exagerated dark sounding. There is no veil in the mids, vocals are more forwarded than the 32. The soundstage is incredibly huge (both deep and large) due to its overall dark sound, which can can even be too much for some and results to be a bit « unreal ». Highs remains the same smoothness on both drivers, they keep great amount of clarity and details without excelling.
The imaging looks better in the 64 ohm.

(Of course all this is just subjective and reflects my own ears, this is what I feel into my modded MX500 shells)
I highly recommend to makes some very light holes (not too much) into MX500 shells for both drivers as it will make bass a bit more present without destroying other freqs.
This experimention shows me that I now tends to generally prefer neutral sound with good bass extension (so the Smabat ST-10 is still my favorite type of sound for exemple).
I will update this once I will fine tune them, there is a lot to play with and good potential, those drivers are highly recommended from me (especially for the price)

Cheers'


----------



## robar

subwoof3r said:


> So first impressions of these two drivers are very good overall, had not enough time to experiment yesterday night but I already made some « OK sounding »  (at least for the work where I’m currently listening to them).
> They are pretty good DIY drivers for various experimentations, they are easily tunable and responds well to shell modding.
> 
> The 32ohm has a warmer sounding, V shaped with a bit recessed mids (like a slight veil), but bass are very good (a bit of distortion) with nice sub-bass touch, everything is very balanced to me (its a polite « V » not really marked/exagerated). Highs keeps a nice touch of details and enjoyment (a bit softened thought).
> ...


Awesome! I'm glad you like them!  I'll definitely upgrade my source in the upcoming months. Could you elaborate a bit on the recommended shell mod (location and size of the hole) and dampening used on the 64ohm build?

Btw I noticed recently that there are some mx500 shells (white vido and fengru tc200 for example) that sound very different (much more v shaped w/ deeper bass) compared to regular ones, regardless  of the tuning foam used. Do you have an idea what could the difference? I guess the vents are different but I couldnt find the exact reason so far.


----------



## beanxinh

Hi,

I'm new to this and on the driver there are two pole, do I need to solder the 2 wires (ground and signal) in any particular order ?

Thanks for helping.


----------



## HungryPanda

The Ground is most usually on the right but most drivers have a dot of colour on the signal side. As long as you attach both wires the same it will be okay.


----------



## robar (Jan 29, 2020)

beanxinh said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm new to this and on the driver there are two pole, do I need to solder the 2 wires (ground and signal) in any particular order ?
> 
> Thanks for helping.


Yes, as Panda said the most important thing is to solder both sides in the same order. If the sides don't match accidentally, the sound will be out of phase - it will sound very unfocused and weird. I  use this test very often after soldering because it shows me the channels and the phase as well.


----------



## beanxinh (Jan 29, 2020)

Edited


----------



## beanxinh

HungryPanda said:


> The Ground is most usually on the right but most drivers have a dot of colour on the signal side. As long as you attach both wires the same it will be okay.





robar said:


> Yes, as Panda said the most important thing is to solder both sides in the same order. If the sides don't match accidentally, the sound will be out of phase - it will sound very unfocused and weird. I  use this test very often after soldering because it shows me the channels and the phase as well.




Thank I will try it when the driver arrive. Just to be sure there won't be any damage if I messed the polarity right?
The seller said that they remove it from the old yuin pk1 so I have high hope for its sound .


----------



## HungryPanda

If the polarity is wrong just desolder the wires from one driver and swap positions


----------



## assassin10000

According to the seller when I bought my PK1 drivers a few months ago, the black line marks the negative terminal.

Here is mine:


----------



## subwoof3r (Jan 30, 2020)

robar said:


> Could you elaborate a bit on the recommended shell mod (location and size of the hole) and dampening used on the 64ohm build?


I will take some photos soon to show you guys 



robar said:


> Do you have an idea what could the difference? I guess the vents are different but I couldnt find the exact reason so far.


I'm truely convinced that it's due to these shell productions issues.
This is why I order only black shells now as they are all perfects and none of mines haves this (since I ordered many). I remarked that the white ones are more affected by this issues (sometimes holes are a little smaller, sometimes bigger) :



Those holes may affect sound directly as its like doing a proper hole into bass port section of the MX500 shell (which I don't like to do as its more harder and random results).


----------



## furyossa (Jan 30, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> Hi guys, proud to present you my new MX500 shell modding creation ⚡️



Nice, clear and elegant. What other to say than great



subwoof3r said:


> I will take some photos soon to show you guys
> 
> 
> I'm truely convinced that it's due to these shell productions issues.
> ...



It can be easily filled with glue, but still, why bother. Black shells are probably the best choice.
I also like Tingo "silver" shells, but on the other hand, I'm very disappointed with the red and gold variants of the same (Tingo T400), which are just painted over silver, and the color peels off very easily.


----------



## subwoof3r

furyossa said:


> I also like Tingo "silver" shells, but on the other hand, I'm very disappointed with the red and gold variants of the same (Tingo T400), which are just painted over silver, and the color peels off very easily.


Definitely, the painted shells looks great only by their external look (when finished perfectly, which is not the case very often for already-made stuffs on aliexpress, sadly), but internal is just black.
At least most sellers paints their shells on (generally) black ones so it avoids this kind of holes issues.
This is also the reason why I stuck on black shells for most of my MMCX mods, otherwise there is a ugly result at the bottom at the PIN socket. Ideally we need to re-paint manually once the MMCX mod has been done. I think one day I will try this once bored enough of black shells


----------



## GREQ

subwoof3r said:


> I will take some photos soon to show you guys
> 
> 
> I'm truely convinced that it's due to these shell productions issues.
> ...


When I drilled through a set of spare shells to open up the port as much as possible, it mostly just added mid-bass and excessive warmth, so your findings fundamentally agree with mine - doesn't do anything good for the results.

In unmodified mx500 shells with just a hole for the cable I think we might even have to consider the thickness of cables as that affects the 'porting' formula. 
Maybe even fully blocking the cable hole from the inside might make a difference. It's just something that's been on my mind recently.
I havn't done anything close to even rudimentary research on this, but the variations I've observed so far make me think it's probably worth investigating for at least 5 minutes


----------



## furyossa

subwoof3r said:


> Definitely, the painted shells looks great only by their external look (when finished perfectly, which is not the case very often for already-made stuffs on aliexpress, sadly), but internal is just black.
> At least most sellers paints their shells on (generally) black ones so it avoids this kind of holes issues.
> This is also the reason why I stuck on black shells for most of my MMCX mods, otherwise there is a ugly result at the bottom at the PIN socket. Ideally we need to re-paint manually once the MMCX mod has been done. I think one day I will try this once bored enough of black shells


I read somewhere that they used a mixture of metal and plastic for the original Tingo shells. 
I own DIY versions of T200, T400, TG-38. T200 maybe have the original driver and it sounds good, TG-38 is even better (especially in bass and treble area) and T400 is not Tingo for sure, no need to comment.


----------



## furyossa

GREQ said:


> When I drilled through a set of spare shells to open up the port as much as possible, it mostly just added mid-bass and excessive warmth, so your findings fundamentally agree with mine - doesn't do anything good for the results.
> 
> In unmodified mx500 shells with just a hole for the cable I think we might even have to consider the thickness of cables as that affects the 'porting' formula.
> Maybe even fully blocking the cable hole from the inside might make a difference. It's just something that's been on my mind recently.
> I havn't done anything close to even rudimentary research on this, but the variations I've observed so far make me think it's probably worth investigating for at least 5 minutes







That reminds me of this MX500 mod. Here I opened a back vent and pulled the cables, and at the front, I set up a tube to narrow new bass port


----------



## subwoof3r

GREQ said:


> Maybe even fully blocking the cable hole from the inside might make a difference.


Definitely, the space between cable into wires holes makes a huge difference, I can feel a huge difference between my wired and MMCX mods as the MMCX mods blocks all this kind of wires spaces (of course once having the right producted black shells without the finishing issue like showed upper)


----------



## robar (Jan 30, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> I will take some photos soon to show you guys
> 
> 
> I'm truely convinced that it's due to these shell productions issues.
> ...


Thanks, I look forward to your photos! Good points, yep the white shells has definitely larger hole at the cable, though the upper vent on the stem is still not open - I tried to pour water in the chamber and see where it flows out. I'm not sure if it's only production issue, for me it looks like an intentional modificiation, at least all of my white vido shells (I had 3) share the same sound. My Fengru Silver shell has similar effect on sound (it's silver in the inside too) Actually I made a comparison few weeks ago, I put an emx500 speaker in a basic black shell from ali and then moved it into the fengru silver, with the same tuning foam. Here is the difference in measurements. (please note my graphs are not compensated, there is a bump between 2.5-6khz that should be roughly on the level of 1khz in the real world, and there is another bump at 250hz that is just a resonance. Apart from these a flat response should look flat on the graph)


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Jan 30, 2020)

robar said:


> Thanks, I look forward to your photos! Good points, yep the white shells has definitely larger hole at the cable, though the upper vent on the stem is still not open - I tried to pour water in the chamber and see where it flows out. I'm not sure if it's only production issue, for me it looks like an intentional modificiation, at least all of my white vido shells (I had 3) share the same sound. My Fengru Silver shell has similar effect on sound (it's silver in the inside too) Actually I made a comparison few weeks ago, I put an emx500 speaker in a basic black shell from ali and then moved it into the fengru silver, with the same tuning foam. Here is the difference in measurements. (please note my graphs are not compensated, there is a bump between 2.5-6khz that should be roughly on the level of 1khz in the real world, and there is another bump at 250hz that is just a resonance. Apart from these a flat response should look flat on the graph)


Which ones which?


----------



## robar (Jan 30, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Which ones which?


Oops I forgot to add the legend, I fixed it! The very V shaped looking graph is the emx500 with silver. The white vido shell has similar effect. It doesn't matter which driver or tuning foam I put into these, this distinct V shaped sound with bright upper mids is persistent. I think the original emx500 earbud should be very similar to this as well, but I don't have one just saw graphs and reviews about it that were very similar.
The green flatter line is the simple black shell, to better understand the graph, it is only bright above 5khz, everything else is close to neutral


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Thanks, I look forward to your photos! Good points, yep the white shells has definitely larger hole at the cable, though the upper vent on the stem is still not open - I tried to pour water in the chamber and see where it flows out. I'm not sure if it's only production issue, for me it looks like an intentional modificiation, at least all of my white vido shells (I had 3) share the same sound. My Fengru Silver shell has similar effect on sound (it's silver in the inside too) Actually I made a comparison few weeks ago, I put an emx500 speaker in a basic black shell from ali and then moved it into the fengru silver, with the same tuning foam. Here is the difference in measurements. (please note my graphs are not compensated, there is a bump between 2.5-6khz that should be roughly on the level of 1khz in the real world, and there is another bump at 250hz that is just a resonance. Apart from these a flat response should look flat on the graph)


Are your two shells in your test the exact same ? (absolutely no holes like I showed in my picture?)
That could be really weird to me, especially if you only just made a drivers swap in the exact same shells.


----------



## Themilkman46290

J


robar said:


> Oops I forgot to add the legend, I fixed it! The very V shaped looking graph is the emx500 with silver. The white vido shell has similar effect. It doesn't matter which driver or tuning foam I put into these, this distinct V shaped sound with bright upper mids is persistent. I think the original emx500 earbud should be very similar to this as well, but I don't have one just saw graphs and reviews about it that were very similar.
> The green flatter line is the simple black shell, to better understand the graph, it is only bright above 5khz, everything else is close to neutral


I actually noticed this but I thought maybe it was my thinking, before my 600ohm driver died on me, I was trying them in different shells, and noticed the black shells had a bit less highs. it makes sense actually, metal has different acoustic properties then plastic, and my metallic shells are actually covered in what seems to be a brass/copper layer with a chrome finish


----------



## robar (Jan 30, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> Are your two shells in your test the exact same ? (absolutely no holes like I showed in my picture?)
> That could be really weird to me, especially if you only just made a drivers swap in the exact same shells.


No, the shells are not the exact same, one is the regular black plastic one that you can get with some speakers on aliexpress, the other is the fengru silver/tc200 which is a chrome finished shell inside-out and it is more rigid, different kind of material. I'll take pics, as I'm not sure if there's any difference between the vents, but I couldn't find anything very visible. Then there's the white vido shells which is simple plastic but has a similar effect to the fengru silver, this is what puzzles me the most because I couldn't notice a big difference in the vents either, maybe the cable hole is larger. I'll take out my macro lens and flash to make detailed pics. I don't think the stock tuning  foam of vido could have an effect like this, there should be something in the shell itself.



Themilkman46290 said:


> J
> 
> I actually noticed this but I thought maybe it was my thinking, before my 600ohm driver died on me, I was trying them in different shells, and noticed the black shells had a bit less highs. it makes sense actually, metal has different acoustic properties then plastic, and my metallic shells are actually covered in what seems to be a brass/copper layer with a chrome finish


Yep this could be one reason, but the white vido shell has a similar effect which is plain plastic, this is what I can't understand. Will make pics for further analysis


----------



## Themilkman46290

robar said:


> No, the shells are not the exact same, one is the regular black plastic one that you can get with some speakers on aliexpress, the other is the fengru silver/tc200 which is a chrome finished shell inside-out and it is more rigid, different kind of material. I'll take pics, as I'm not sure if there's any difference between the vents, but I couldn't find anything very visible. Then there's the white vido shells which is simple plastic but has a similar effect to the fengru silver, this is what puzzles me the most because I couldn't notice a big difference in the vents either, maybe the cable hole is larger. I'll take out my macro lens and flash to make detailed pics. I don't think the stock tuning  foam of vido could have an effect like this, there should be something in the shell itself.
> 
> 
> Yep this could be one reason, but the white vido shell has a similar effect which is plain plastic, this is what I can't understand. Will make pics for further analysis


Hmm, that's strange, could the vents be different?


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> No, the shells are not the exact same, one is the regular black plastic one that you can get with some speakers on aliexpress, the other is the fengru silver/tc200 which is a chrome finished shell inside-out and it is more rigid, different kind of material. I'll take pics, as I'm not sure if there's any difference between the vents, but I couldn't find anything very visible. Then there's the white vido shells which is simple plastic but has a similar effect to the fengru silver, this is what puzzles me the most because I couldn't notice a big difference in the vents either, maybe the cable hole is larger. I'll take out my macro lens and flash to make detailed pics. I don't think the stock tuning foam of vido could have an effect like this, there should be something in the shell itself.



A while ago on YT I was watching a guy who sad that the depth of the shell of Tingo is greater than standard MX500. 





I'm not sure that AliXpress sells original Tingo shells.
Also, translate this page to see a detailed description of Tingo TG-38. The original driver has a voice coil made of aluminum, not cooper.


----------



## beanxinh

robar said:


> Thanks, I look forward to your photos! Good points, yep the white shells has definitely larger hole at the cable, though the upper vent on the stem is still not open - I tried to pour water in the chamber and see where it flows out. I'm not sure if it's only production issue, for me it looks like an intentional modificiation, at least all of my white vido shells (I had 3) share the same sound. My Fengru Silver shell has similar effect on sound (it's silver in the inside too) Actually I made a comparison few weeks ago, I put an emx500 speaker in a basic black shell from ali and then moved it into the fengru silver, with the same tuning foam. Here is the difference in measurements. (please note my graphs are not compensated, there is a bump between 2.5-6khz that should be roughly on the level of 1khz in the real world, and there is another bump at 250hz that is just a resonance. Apart from these a flat response should look flat on the graph)



Is it expensive to obtain the equipments that can measure frequency respond like this ? Thank.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 31, 2020)

beanxinh said:


> Is it expensive to obtain the equipments that can measure frequency respond like this ? Thank.


This is the cheapest solution 
You only need Dayton Audio iMM-6 and mobile device. iPhone have better app then android.
If you plan to use it with PC then you need an external sound card.

EDIT: Also U need to create coupler for IEM's or earbuds.
The top black part is for earbuds and bottom (transparent pipe) is for IEM.
The only problem with my coupler is the length but this solution is only for testing, not professional use. 




Can anyone show a detailed tutorial of how to setup REW (Room EQ Wizard) for Earbuds measurement? I only managed to find this tutorial that is for speakers correction.


----------



## robar (Jan 31, 2020)

beanxinh said:


> Is it expensive to obtain the equipments that can measure frequency respond like this ? Thank.


I use my Tascam DR-05 portable recorder. The condenser mic is very nice quality and the diameter matches the front cover of earbuds, so I just push the shell against it. I feed the input and output signal with a focusrite 2i2, but it's not really necessary I just happen to have one on my desk. The less accurate parts of the graph might come from the side vents of the mic barrel, I'll try to cover them with tape and test



furyossa said:


> This is the cheapest solution
> You only need Dayton Audio iMM-6 and mobile device. iPhone have better app then android.
> If you plan to use it with PC then you need an external sound card.
> 
> Can anyone show a detailed tutorial of how to setup REW (Room EQ Wizard) for Earbuds measurement? I only managed to find this tutorial that is for speakers correction.


Interesting, thanks for sharing! I was wondering about the house curve feature, might be useful for tuning
After a brief setup in the settings of REW (setting up sound devices, feedback loop calibration which didn't change anything in my case etc), I just measure raw uncompensated so I don't use corrections. I use 256k sweeps, one per measurement, measuring multiple times and averaging them afterwards. Sometimes I use smoothing but not very much. I measure for myself, usually to help me with tuning, so what I'm mostly interested in is relative differences between graphs. no special post processing is necessary. I set my graph limits to 20hz-20khz and 30-85dB, this is just my preference with my particular setup. Very quick and easy method. I'll research further into corrections but to be honest without a widely adopted reference point it's just guesswork, I find it more effective to understand the nature and limitations of the measurements and compensate in my mind. Csglinux's graphs are one of the closest to natural reproduction of the sound signature (except for 8-10khz dip), this is why I  know where is the upper mid bump in my graphs.
I find it very useful to choose reference earbuds that are quite neutral and/or widely known. For example I often use the blue qian25 as a point of comparison for sound signature, because it's cheap and sort of neutral with decent bass and slight elevation above 5-6khz. It would be interesting  to compare our graphs about the same earbuds, even if there are variations between units, it would show some interesting differences that could be helpful


----------



## furyossa (Jan 31, 2020)

robar said:


> Interesting, thanks for sharing! I was wondering about the house curve feature, might be useful for tuning
> After a brief setup in the settings of REW (setting up sound devices, feedback loop calibration which didn't change anything in my case etc), I just measure raw uncompensated so I don't use corrections. I use 256k sweeps, one per measurement, measuring multiple times and averaging them afterwards. Sometimes I use smoothing but not very much. I measure for myself, usually to help me with tuning, so what I'm mostly interested in is relative differences between graphs. no special post-processing is necessary. I set my graph limits to 20hz-20khz and 30-85dB, this is just my preference with my particular setup. Very quick and easy method. I'll research further into corrections but to be honest without a widely adopted reference point it's just guesswork, I find it more effective to understand the nature and limitations of the measurements and compensate in my mind. Csglinux's graphs are one of the closest to natural reproduction of the sound signature (except for 8-10khz dip), this is why I know where is the upper mid bump in my graphs.
> I find it very useful to choose reference earbuds that are quite neutral and/or widely known. For example I often use the blue qian25 as a point of comparison for sound signature, because it's cheap and sort of neutral with decent bass and slight elevation above 5-6khz. It would be interesting to compare our graphs about the same earbuds, even if there are variations between units, it would show some interesting differences that could be helpful


I agree with you. You don't need to cover backside, inner "horseshoe" already do that in some way, also I try to not use foams.
I've been thinking about it and I think maybe the Harman Kardon curve as house curve can be used but not sure.
As I mentioned earlier about coupler, the length is a very important parameter here because we need to simulate real environment ie distance between the speaker and are eardrum.
Also, profile ie shape of the inner cavity of the ear canal is not a straight tube but a winding canal. Quiet place and much more...
Anyway as you said: "_I measure for myself, usually to help me with tuning_".
Here are my REW measurements (*.mdat file) for various buds but probably is not good because I didn't setup REW correctly.
EDIT: Seems funny but *this* could be used as a coupler


----------



## robar (Jan 31, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I agree with you. You don't need to cover backside, inner "horseshoe" already do that in some way, also I try to not use foams.
> I've been thinking about it and I think maybe the Harman Kardon curve as house curve can be used but not sure.
> As I mentioned earlier about coupler, the length is a very important parameter here because we need to simulate real environment ie distance between the speaker and are eardrum.
> Also, profile ie shape of the inner cavity of the ear canal is not a straight tube but a winding canal. Quiet place and much more...
> ...


Thanks, you have quite a collection of earbuds/measurements,  props!  Your setup is very different from mine, mine is sort of simulating a natural seal directly on top of the mic (roughly matches my subjective listening experience except for the 2-5khz bump), yours is more like a perfect seal /coupler type (no bass falloff, 3 distinct dips above 1khz especially at 4-6khz and 8-10khz, slowly decreasing towards treble, bit similar to audiobudget's graphs) Unfortunately I don't have any buds from your collection so I can't find a matching graph from my files :/ Btw, could you try measuring with no or very small coupler and/or less perfect seal? I think it would help reduce the differences between our setups, just for curiosity.
The problem with harman cardon though, is that it's designed for headphones and iems, for uncompensated measurements with industry standard equipment (artificial ear designed to be the average). It takes the artificial ear's resonances in account that compensations or imperfect imitations of the specific ear distort or hide on the graphs, plus with earbuds theimperfect seal and some sort of foam has to be simulated as well. With earbuds I haven't seen any graph that would be comparable with correct headphone/iem measurements - that is, either a compensated one where a flat sounding earbud would show as a flat line without showing any dips or peaks or unrealistic subbass response or show something like an accurate raw graph of iems. The useful thing for me from the harman curve is the subjective part - what to boost or decrease compared to neutral for a speaker ilke sound.

I think the best way for DIY is to not simulate the ear, because it's just not possible to get the same resonance as the multi thousand dollar artificial ear, and any other type of resonance just distorts the sound with no reference point. Of course the most industry standard way would be to put the earbud with perfectly identical foams into the expensive certified artificial ear and then apply the compensation of that specific ear that was calculated from reference speaker measurements. But for us with low resources the opposite is the most accurate solution, to remove any potential resonance like the couplers and bring the earbud as close to the mic as possible, with realistic seal. This way we don't need to compensate for the ear resonances, because we don't introduce ear-like resonances (that would be imperfect anyway). I think this is the reason why my method works well.  I'll experiment with reducing the remaining resonances further, I think the reason of those is the omnidirectional nature of my mic. (there are openings on the sides of the mic barrel as well etc)


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

Mine looks very similar to yours as well. This is my little kit I’ve made. And use Audio Tools app on my iphone. Does a pretty good job. Graphs are of Smabat M1 Pro and ST-10. For my purposes it does a good job.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 31, 2020)

robar said:


> could you try measuring with no or very small coupler and/or less perfect seal


I don't have a perfect seal because I remove foams before measurement. Inside a tube, at the top, I placed a tiny sponge ring just to hold earbuds but still loosely.
Thanks but my measurements are far away from accurate



headenvelopedinsound said:


> Mine looks very similar to yours as well. This is my little kit I’ve made. And use Audio Tools app on my iphone. Does a pretty good job. Graphs are of Smabat M1 Pro and ST-10. For my purposes, it does a good job.


Yup. You have also a long tube which is the problem, for IEM is OK this first part with the length of an inch, but top part is almost impossible to place closer.
Take a look Vibro Labs Veritas. It also has many problems but the inner length of the coupler is right.
iPhone Audio Tools app is much easier to setup then Audio Tool app for Android and graphs are more accurate.I tried a few android apps but neither has a graph like REW


----------



## robar (Jan 31, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I don't have a perfect seal because I remove foams before measurement. Inside a tube, at the top, I placed a tiny sponge ring just to hold earbuds but still loosely.
> Thanks but my measurements are far away from accurate
> 
> 
> ...


interesting, but you still get perfect flat bass response like an audeze or an iem, weird. Most buds start to fall off around 80-100hz in real world usage.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> interesting, but you still get perfect flat bass response like an audeze or an iem, weird


It is weird. That's what I wonder too I also use some cheap USB sound card temporarily.
Probably my REW settings are wrong. That's why I'm looking for an example of REW settings for earbuds.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jan 31, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I don't have a perfect seal because I remove foams before measurement. Inside a tube, at the top, I placed a tiny sponge ring just to hold earbuds but still loosely.
> Thanks but my measurements are far away from accurate
> 
> 
> ...


I am not sure what you mean by a problem? The ear canal is the same length no matter if it is an in ear or an earbud? Maybe I need to read back more closely I just shot off my stuff and gave some examples. To me and my purposes it's more than adequate.


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> I am not sure what you mean by a problem? The ear canal is the same length no matter if it is an in ear or an earbud? Maybe I need to read back more closely I just shot off my stuff and gave some examples. To me and my purposes it's more than adequate.


My bad. 
I thought generally, when the pipe was too long. As you can see my coupler consists of two parts, the lower transparent tube (for IEM) and the upper black extended part (for Earbads).
Sometimes distortion occurs during the measurement and I think the problem may be the greater distance between the driver and the microphone tip.
Anyway ... have you tried measuring on a PC instead of iPhone?


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jan 31, 2020)

furyossa said:


> My bad.
> I thought generally, when the pipe was too long. As you can see my coupler consists of two parts, the lower transparent tube (for IEM) and the upper black extended part (for Earbads).
> Sometimes distortion occurs during the measurement and I think the problem may be the greater distance between the driver and the microphone tip.
> Anyway ... have you tried measuring on a PC instead of iPhone?


I see well I am no pro by any means with measurements and only do my own with my equipment to get general ideas. 

Yeah I’ve done PC measurements but it’s more work than I want to do. I’ve got the iPhone dialed in enough to have a base knowledge of what I am looking at. I can’t recall the FFT I was using. If you know of a simple one let me know.


----------



## furyossa

This weekend I took some time to put together these two pairs.





The first one is MX500 "heavy" modding (a shortened shell, back vent, and mmcx sockets).
For DIY balanced cable, I use a pair of these 4 core wire and 15.4mm 64ohm Titanium driver.
As we know this driver already has good sub-bass and with this mod, I can feel how shells start shaking in my ears.
Of course, this setup requires a little more tuning but I will probably try with other drivers until I find the right one.




For 2nd pair, I use 14.8mm PK2 driver with DOCOMO shell and Furukawa "red" cable.
This driver, in terms of sound, is so similar to PK1 "red film" 150ohm. For this price it is amazing.
The cable is a bit stiff, too twisted compared to my balance cables, but the wire is really good quality.
And for DOCOMO, what to say other than pure comfort.


----------



## HungryPanda

furyossa said:


> This weekend I took some time to put together these two pairs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very nice builds


----------



## subwoof3r

subwoof3r said:


> So first impressions of these two drivers are very good overall, had not enough time to experiment yesterday night but I already made some « OK sounding »  (at least for the work where I’m currently listening to them).
> They are pretty good DIY drivers for various experimentations, they are easily tunable and responds well to shell modding.
> 
> The 32ohm has a warmer sounding, V shaped with a bit recessed mids (like a slight veil), but bass are very good (a bit of distortion) with nice sub-bass touch, everything is very balanced to me (its a polite « V » not really marked/exagerated). Highs keeps a nice touch of details and enjoyment (a bit softened thought).
> ...


Some update about this post 
I finally fine tuned the two drivers with my general tastes.
I have to say I stil loves both drivers, they are complementing each other very well. The 64 ohm titanium is probably my new favorite drivers from all time. There is an exceptionnal soundstage, sub-bass is present, good mid-bass impact (which was missing to me into my previous 130ohm beryllium builds), but only cons is the treble part beeing a bit smoothened (so details could be better and treble presence if soft but still very acceptable, unfortunately, even with my pure silver cable it still remains a bit soft). Also, the resolution in these 64 ohm is extremely good (not far from the 130 ohm).
The 32 ohm drivers are my new favorite in the 32 ohm category. Vocals is a bit less full than the 64 ohm, but with more bass and better treble details. Soundstage is thinner than 64 ohm, and imaging is still in favor of the 64 ohm.
I would say the 32 ohm are excellent for electronic music, while 64 of the best for all other, great allrounder.
I'm thinking of ordering another 64ohm titanium pair 
Cheers'


----------



## furyossa (Feb 3, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> Some update about this post
> I finally fine tuned the two drivers with my general tastes.
> I have to say I stil loves both drivers, they are complementing each other very well. The 64 ohm titanium is probably my new favorite drivers from all time. There is an exceptionnal soundstage, sub-bass is present, good mid-bass impact (which was missing to me into my previous 130ohm beryllium builds), but only cons is the treble part beeing a bit smoothened (so details could be better and treble presence if soft but still very acceptable, unfortunately, even with my pure silver cable it still remains a bit soft). Also, the resolution in these 64 ohm is extremely good (not far from the 130 ohm).
> The 32 ohm drivers are my new favorite in the 32 ohm category. Vocals is a bit less full than the 64 ohm, but with more bass and better treble details. Soundstage is thinner than 64 ohm, and imaging is still in favor of the 64 ohm.
> ...


I totally agree with you. I have been skeptical of the titanium driver for a long time and always chose between graphene and beryllium, but now I can say that it is really exceptional.
Beryllium (130onm and 600ohm) have a better balance and control between sub-bass and bass and the rest is neutral, of course, 600ohm have better resolution for sure.
Graphene (400ohm) for me has great balance between bass,mids and treble and quality/money value.
I just received 2 more pairs of 130ohm and now I feel sorry because I didn't take at least another pair of titanium 64ohm.
I don't have 32ohm version to compere with it, my favorite in this (32ohm) area is PK2 (14.8mm), Tingo TG-38 and RY4S Plus.
It's a pity that there is not much choice for 14.8mm drivers compared to 15.4mm which suits me more because of their smaller size and fit.

Last night I was listening to my new pair from the previous post.
To build this pair I was inspired by the Bass Reflex Speaker and some Pioneer and JVS earbuds which already use the "back vent" system.




Until now only HE150 and HE150Pro were the references for good sub-bass.
Smabat ST-10 use "transmission line - like" system and I guess their sub-bass is just as good. DUNU DK 4001 also have
a similar concept on the back cover.




The transmission line is a little tricky to calculate for earbuds and I think the length of the T-Line itself should be quite long.
This is the scheme of "simple vent mod" that I used for this project.




With this mod, the Titanium 64ohm sub-bass is 20-30% stronger. I'm not "bass-head" so after a while, this is a bit too much. EDM sounds amazing on this.
Full-size tuning foam covers 3/4 of driver vents and I have noticed that when the volume is low bass is dominant and on high volume, mids take over bass.
For the next step, I plan to remove 1/4 of tuning foam, add side walls dampening and place a cap over the vent to block direct sound wave.




Also trying to find a way to reduce the resonance that is somewhat present. I know the problem is the plastic housing but metal MX500 is not yet available


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> I totally agree with you. I have been skeptical of the titanium driver for a long time and always chose between graphene and beryllium, but now I can say that it is really exceptional.
> Beryllium (130onm and 600ohm) have a better balance and control between sub-bass and bass and the rest is neutral, of course, 600ohm have better resolution for sure.
> Graphene (400ohm) for me has great balance between bass,mids and treble and quality/money value.
> I just received 2 more pairs of 130ohm and now I feel sorry because I didn't take at least another pair of titanium 64ohm.
> ...


Amazing stuff, thanks for sharing! I saw some mods on Earbud Anonymous that has an additional vent on top similar to yours, I always wondered how it looks inside and what is the reasoning behind it. What kind of part do you use for the vent, is it some sort of drilled-through plastic pin or it's something specific that we can buy? 
It great to hear that the PK2 speakers sound nice in your opinion, I'm planning to buy a set of 5 because I have several empty 14.8mm shells (all sorts of designs salvaged from random buds) This is the type you like? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969609452.html

By the way the Qian69 shell has an inner bass port in addition to the hole for the cable, similar to some PK buds. With the 32ohm 19-21 bass speakers it has amazing bass response. The only problem with the shell is a modest peak around 5khz which makes the mids a bit grainy and bright, I don't know how it could be tamed but it's the only thing bothering me at the moment.  But overall it's a very fun U shaped sound signature with really wide airy presentation.

For the time being I use my titanium 64ohm in the simplest build possible, in the basic black mx500 shell with the regular horseshoe foam. This yields a nice smooth neutral/darkish sound with excellent bass extension, but I would like to bring it closer to the 50-100hz impact of my qian69 shell build. This kind of bass vent would increase this region without messing up the mids and highs?This might be useful for balancing out more mid centric speakers as well.


----------



## robar

subwoof3r said:


> Some update about this post
> I finally fine tuned the two drivers with my general tastes.
> I have to say I stil loves both drivers, they are complementing each other very well. The 64 ohm titanium is probably my new favorite drivers from all time. There is an exceptionnal soundstage, sub-bass is present, good mid-bass impact (which was missing to me into my previous 130ohm beryllium builds), but only cons is the treble part beeing a bit smoothened (so details could be better and treble presence if soft but still very acceptable, unfortunately, even with my pure silver cable it still remains a bit soft). Also, the resolution in these 64 ohm is extremely good (not far from the 130 ohm).
> The 32 ohm drivers are my new favorite in the 32 ohm category. Vocals is a bit less full than the 64 ohm, but with more bass and better treble details. Soundstage is thinner than 64 ohm, and imaging is still in favor of the 64 ohm.
> ...


It's awesome to hear, so where have you drilled that hole? On the "forehead" of the shell? How would you compare the 150ohm speaker from cklewis and the steel mesh 32ohm to these speakers? Is it still worth trying out those or it's just as good to stick to these two (which are cheaper as well)?


----------



## furyossa (Feb 3, 2020)

robar said:


> Amazing stuff, thanks for sharing! I saw some mods on Earbud Anonymous that has an additional vent on top similar to yours, I always wondered how it looks inside and what is the reasoning behind it. What kind of part do you use for the vent, is it some sort of drilled-through plastic pin or it's something specific that we can buy?
> It great to hear that the PK2 speakers sound nice in your opinion, I'm planning to buy a set of 5 because I have several empty 14.8mm shells (all sorts of designs salvaged from random buds) This is the type you like? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969609452.html
> 
> By the way the Qian69 shell has an inner bass port in addition to the hole for the cable, similar to some PK buds. With the 32ohm 19-21 bass speakers it has amazing bass response. The only problem with the shell is a modest peak around 5khz which makes the mids a bit grainy and bright, I don't know how it could be tamed but it's the only thing bothering me at the moment.  But overall it's a very fun U shaped sound signature with really wide airy presentation.
> ...


Yup. It's is similar but again different. You can see in this video. For vent, I use a pair of smallest rivets (3/32" ie 2.4mm), you can find it in any hardware store (aluminum or copper).
This guy use probably bigger size that's why he placed rivet on top, perpendicular to sound wave. I use parallel placement and block vent from the direct sound wave similar to "bass reflex" speakers.
Different radius and length of the vent can also affect the sound.
The goal is to establish the right balance between the pressure in front and behind the driver. As an example the shape of this shell (original design by Final Audio PianoForteXT) is unusual but its ease to achieve this goal then with MX500.
And if you ask which one method is better? Maybe someone knows better to explain.
He removes a black tuning filter from the shell and adds a tick white filter on the back of the driver. K's earbuds 300ohm use this filter and without shell black filter. It sounds hollow to me, but I don't know about the Vido.
Personally I like to combine these foam filters for the shell and these cotton filter for the driver.
Try on Qian69 to add a filter on the driver if not already have one. Or add one more and punch one or two holes through the filter if mids are to reduced. Maybe combo full foam and donut foam can help.
About the vent. Yes, this mod affects sub-bass and bass. A small tip: inside the shell just above cable hole you can see small round mark probably from the mold. That is the place for the vent hole  
It's important to seal cable hole, if you not use MMCX, after you place cable with blu tack or glue.
About PK2: Yes. Is a good driver. I have 2 more spare pairs, and I try theses on different shells.


----------



## HungryPanda

My recent build, using standard EMX500 drivers, foam tuning horse shoe on the shell behind driver. Vents increase bass to a fuller sound whilst highs are very clear. Mids and highs seem unaffected.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 3, 2020)

HungryPanda said:


> My recent build, using standard EMX500 drivers, foam tuning horse shoe on the shell behind driver. Vents increase bass to a fuller sound whilst highs are very clear. Mids and highs seem unaffected.


It looks very powerful. You also confirmed that this type of mod only affects the low end. Your vets have probably a double size radius. Are you using dampening or some mesh inside to prevent sound leakage?
Similar cable except your is 3 core ie 2 wire and shield. The shield is to tick and have trouble to wire balanced cable, especially mmcx connector.


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> I totally agree with you. I have been skeptical of the titanium driver for a long time and always chose between graphene and beryllium, but now I can say that it is really exceptional.
> Beryllium (130onm and 600ohm) have a better balance and control between sub-bass and bass and the rest is neutral, of course, 600ohm have better resolution for sure.
> Graphene (400ohm) for me has great balance between bass,mids and treble and quality/money value.
> I just received 2 more pairs of 130ohm and now I feel sorry because I didn't take at least another pair of titanium 64ohm.
> ...


There are guys out there, that are making metal mx500 shells, i contacted some of them, they will ship, price is a bit steep but it is custom work, here is there face book, I will order them at some point after I pick my favorite pair of drivers


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Smabat ST-10 use "transmission line - like" system and I guess their sub-bass is just as good. DUNU DK 4001 also have
> a similar concept on the back cover.
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, proper transmission line enclosures need a way longer 'length' to tune into the bass frequencies. The Smabat earbuds are inspired by it but not a true transmission line. They are a tuned port setup, like when you build a ported subwoofer box.

I've been considering adding a vent to my MMCX modded K's LBB as after the mod I closed the opening where the cable came in. It became much less dark/warm and more balanced.


----------



## HungryPanda

furyossa said:


> It looks very powerful. You also confirmed that this type of mod only affects the low end. Your vets have probably a double size radius. Are you using dampening or some mesh inside to prevent sound leakage?
> Similar cable except your is 3 core ie 2 wire and shield. The shield is to tick and have trouble to wire balanced cable, especially mmcx connector.


I have compared them to my original EMX500 earbuds and the main difference is that the bass is not as boomy but much more controlled, I was quite surprised to find this. I'm using no extra damping inside.


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> There are guys out there, that are making metal mx500 shells, i contacted some of them, they will ship, price is a bit steep but it is custom work, here is there face book, I will order them at some point after I pick my favorite pair of drivers


Now it's just a matter of how much weight they have. I don't have a good sealing with 15.4mm driver and most of the metal shells I wear over-ear..


----------



## furyossa

HungryPanda said:


> I have compared them to my original EMX500 earbuds and the main difference is that the bass is not as boomy but much more controlled, I was quite surprised to find this. I'm using no extra damping inside.


Really amazing considering the size of the opening


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> Yup. It's is similar but again different. You can see in this video. For vent, I use a pair of smallest rivets (3/32" ie 2.4mm), you can find it in any hardware store (aluminum or copper).
> This guy use probably bigger size that's why he placed rivet on top, perpendicular to sound wave. I use parallel placement and block vent from the direct sound wave similar to "bass reflex" speakers.
> Different radius and length of the vent can also affect the sound.
> The goal is to establish the right balance between the pressure in front and behind the driver. As an example the shape of this shell (original design by Final Audio PianoForteXT) is unusual but its ease to achieve this goal then with MX500.
> ...


Wow thanks for the detailed info. I've read the article about the bass reflex speaker design, but I don't understand how this principles would apply to an earbud. If I understand correctly, the bass port's main effect comes from directly contributing to the  sound we hear, because it emits sound at the frequencies where the speaker struggles. But on an earbud, this kind of bass port is not channeled into the front cover, but sits on the top of the shell facing away. So it's not really contributing anything directly to the sound that reaches our eardrum, but works as any other vent on the shell. Isn't it possible that a different phenomena plays at role here, and not loudspeaker principles?


HungryPanda said:


> I have compared them to my original EMX500 earbuds and the main difference is that the bass is not as boomy but much more controlled, I was quite surprised to find this. I'm using no extra damping inside.


I think the original emx500 might use the same kind of "boomy" shell design which the  white vido has as well. The boomy/v-shape doesn't come from the speaker or tuning foam, but from the shell itself. I put emx500 speakers in the regular black shells and it had a nice tight neutral/slightly bright sound, but putting it into white vido and fengru tc200 shells made it very boomy and v shape. (with the same tuning foam) So I'm not sure if the tightness comes from the vent, have you tried putting it into a simple black shell like those in the 3usd 5-sets?


----------



## HungryPanda

I put them in the exact same shells as my early EMX500 build, the only difference is the vent as this was an experiment.


----------



## furyossa

So I tried the last mode and didn't work as I expected. 





The reason is that cap over vent takes up too much space so that the mids become quite muted. Sub-bass is good. Obviously, this titanium 64ohm requires a 
little more cavity space. A simple "vent" mod is a way to go for now. I will also try with the metal shell to see how the driver behaves.


----------



## GREQ

furyossa said:


> Now it's just a matter of how much weight they have. I don't have a good sealing with 15.4mm driver and most of the metal shells I wear over-ear..


I bought the brass mx500 shells from this seller.
(my post from a few pages back) https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15401871

Firstly they are quite heavy, but even if I shake my head they sit in place due to the friction of the foam around the bud.
As long as you have a normal/snug fit with other mx500 buds, these should be no different.

Secondly these shells are designed to accept 15mm drivers, NOT 15.4mm drivers.
This is what I was told by the seller, although I have never seen 15mm drivers for sale anywhere. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I used 15.4mm drivers (from my Sabia V6 'Pearl') by wrapping a slither of electrical tape around the end of the shell as a sort of gasket to seal the gap between the shell and the driver cap. This actually worked surprisingly well, although it's quite difficult to not end up with some stray ugly bits sticking out the sides - nothing a foam cover doesn't hide though. 

So be warned, they're a tiny bit smaller than standard mx500 shells, but I've been extremely satisfied with my set.


----------



## subwoof3r

As promised, here is how my current 64ohm Titanium mod is looking  :
I'm doing a unique very little hole (0.6mm) like the picture shown after :


(I'm doing the same but mirroring depending on L or R side)



Since yesterday I'm currently trying this addon of extra tuning foams inside the shells (properly cutted) :



Looks like there is slightly less reasonnance with that and slightly improve sub-bass and mid-bass impact (but by a very small margin).
With this kind of setup, to me those drivers sounds phenomenal with good treble details (which is lacking a bit from these drivers initially).
I think I will buy soon this thing to make graphs of frequencies, could be interesting before/after each mods tries 
Cheers'


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 4, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> As promised, here is how my current 64ohm Titanium mod is looking  :
> I'm doing a unique very little hole (0.6mm) like the picture shown after :



Neat.



assassin10000 said:


> I've been considering adding a vent to my MMCX modded K's LBB as after the mod I closed the opening where the cable came in. It became much less dark/warm and more balanced.



I may do something similar to my modded LBB. I got a small hand drill for opening up the hole to do that mod. May as well use it since it came with some .5 or .6mm bits too.



Gonna do some listening first. Then maybe figure out where I want the hole, probably near the mmcx connector.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 4, 2020)

GREQ said:


> I bought the brass mx500 shells from this seller.
> (my post from a few pages back) https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15401871
> 
> Firstly they are quite heavy, but even if I shake my head they sit in place due to the friction of the foam around the bud.
> ...


I think that the seller follows the tradition of other metal housing. Most of these are 15mm. They probably count everyone using the glue. At all costs, I try to avoid using adhesive, whether for drivers or connectors.
Instead of electrical tape, you can try with double-sided adhesive tape. Cut tiny pieces and wrap around on the inner side of the driver's cover. In this case, you can add a small amount of glue, which will stay on tape and not the cover.


subwoof3r said:


> As promised, here is how my current 64ohm Titanium mod is looking  :
> I'm doing a unique very little hole (0.6mm) like the picture shown after :
> 
> 
> ...


I end up with a similar approach.




Cotton filter on driver backside, vent covered with a shrinking tube, medical tape inside prevent wire to scratch the shell, cotton around the vent and small foam "wall" just 1mm in front of vent to block direct sound waves. When I remove this "wall" sub-bass is less noticeable


----------



## beanxinh

subwoof3r said:


> As promised, here is how my current 64ohm Titanium mod is looking  :
> I'm doing a unique very little hole (0.6mm) like the picture shown after :
> 
> 
> ...



Since that you mention the 64 ohm titanium driver have you tried this driver ?
https://shopee.vn/15.4mm-Earphone-S...d-Earphone-Speaker-2PCS-i.69887650.2698686133
This is the only titanium driver I can acquire now (around 10$).
I see that the 600ohm driver is considerably expensive than the rest (50 $ vs 10$) is it worth that?
Thanks.


----------



## subwoof3r (Feb 4, 2020)

robar said:


> How would you compare the 150ohm speaker from cklewis and the steel mesh 32ohm to these speakers? Is it still worth trying out those or it's just as good to stick to these two (which are cheaper as well)?


Just realized that I forgot to answer your message.
I tried again two weeks ago the 150 ohm (which were my previous favorite before 130 ohm beryllium) but I didn't stand much time with them as definitely there is much better alternatives. It was lacking bass dept, sounded a bit muddy and a bit boring overall, I understood very fast how I immediately felt in love with the 130 ohm Beryllium 
My favorites drivers are now these 64 ohm titanium, 130 ohm beryllium, and then the 32 ohm quoted recently. I will work only in them for now till I/we find better


----------



## subwoof3r

beanxinh said:


> Since that you mention the 64 ohm titanium driver have you tried this driver ?
> https://shopee.vn/15.4mm-Earphone-S...d-Earphone-Speaker-2PCS-i.69887650.2698686133
> This is the only titanium driver I can acquire now (around 10$).
> I see that the 600ohm driver is considerably expensive than the rest (50 $ vs 10$) is it worth that?
> Thanks.


I wish they will arrives into aliexpress one day, looks interesting. I still think we will get slightly better imaging in the 64 ohm (based on my experience).
Unfortunately, shopee is like taobao for EU customers, its almost impossible and/or very complex to order as no shipping into EU. I have only aliexpress for ordering and try drivers


----------



## robar (Feb 4, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> As promised, here is how my current 64ohm Titanium mod is looking  :
> I'm doing a unique very little hole (0.6mm) like the picture shown after :
> 
> 
> ...


Amazing thanks for the pics! So you drilled the hole in line with the other vents. Btw how do you drill such tiny perfect holes? I plan to acquire the necessary tools but I'm not sure what to buy. Do you use hand drill similar to what @assassin10000 posted? It's a shame those white tuning foams are so expensive haha. So looking at the foam arrangement, did you find that the small parts of the horseshoe plus the square is better than simply putting the whole horseshoe on in the same place? I did experimented with something like this on dp100 shell and I did find that cutting up the horseshoe and only putting it over the vents helped to brighten up the sound



subwoof3r said:


> Just realized that I forgot to answer your message.
> I tried again two weeks ago the 150 ohm (which were my previous favorite before 130 ohm beryllium) but I didn't stand much time with them as definitely there is much better alternatives. It was lacking bass dept, sounded a bit muddy and a bit boring overall, I understood very fast how I immediately felt in love with the 130 ohm Beryllium
> My favorites drivers are now these 64 ohm titanium, 130 ohm beryllium, and then the 32 ohm quoted recently. I will work only in them for now till I/we find better


Thanks, then I'll skip the 150ohm and buy more of these and pk2 speakers.



beanxinh said:


> Since that you mention the 64 ohm titanium driver have you tried this driver ?
> https://shopee.vn/15.4mm-Earphone-S...d-Earphone-Speaker-2PCS-i.69887650.2698686133
> This is the only titanium driver I can acquire now (around 10$).
> I see that the 600ohm driver is considerably expensive than the rest (50 $ vs 10$) is it worth that?
> Thanks.


This looks like the titanium monitor speaker that is quite common at aliexpress, you can find it at ghxamp and jietu store for example. According to the reviews and graphs, it is a bright midcentric speaker, certainly not something I'd be happy with. But  there are other types 32ohm titanium speakers that look very similar to the 64ohm titanium and they come with steel mesh covers as well, those are much more interesting to me. If you have access to aliexpress, the 64ohm titanium is less than 10usd, that would be your safest bet I think.
this is the monitor titanium https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041139370.html
this is the steel mesh the looks similar to the 64ohm titanium https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000548907020.html


----------



## beanxinh

subwoof3r said:


> I wish they will arrives into aliexpress one day, looks interesting. I still think we will get slightly better imaging in the 64 ohm (based on my experience).
> Unfortunately, shopee is like taobao for EU customers, its almost impossible and/or very complex to order as no shipping into EU. I have only aliexpress for ordering and try drivers


You won't missing much since that is just a lite version of Aliexpress. The Chineses who open shop in Shopee also open shop in aliexpress with much more items. The only reason I use it is that the shipping cost is much cheaper and they support COD.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 4, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> I wish they will arrives into aliexpress one day, looks interesting. I still think we will get slightly better imaging in the 64 ohm (based on my experience).
> Unfortunately, shopee is like taobao for EU customers, its almost impossible and/or very complex to order as no shipping into EU. I have only aliexpress for ordering and try drivers


Maybe I missing something but these Titanium 32ohm can be found in many Aliexpress stores. Here is the lowest price
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000592420513.html


----------



## robar (Feb 4, 2020)

Have you tried putting the 14.8mm PK2 speakers in earbuds like Qian39 or Faaeal Z-sound? I wonder if they are compatible. I really like the form factor of those but the sound could be easily improved with better drivers.
Also, have you tried the 6-hole wooden shells from nsc store? I'd get one if I know for sure they snap on 15.4mm speakers.



furyossa said:


> Maybe I missing something but these Titanium 32ohm can be found in many Aliexpress stores. Here is the lowest price
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000592420513.html


Yes ghxamp store has been selling those for a long time, jietu just recently added it. At ghxamp you can find reviews and graphs, I think this is very different from the 64ohm titanium, it's more like a bright midcentric speaker.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Have you tried putting the 14.8mm PK2 speakers in earbuds like Qian39 or Faaeal Z-sound? I wonder if they are compatible. I really like the form factor of those but the sound could be easily improved with better drivers.
> Also, have you tried the 6-hole wooden shells from nsc store? I'd get one if I know for sure they snap on 15.4mm speakers.
> Yes ghxamp store has been selling those for a long time, jietu just recently added it. At ghxamp you can find reviews and graphs, I think this is very different from the 64ohm titanium, it's more like a bright midcentric speaker.


For 14.8mm driver I only used metal shell (blue one on image below), PK, Docomo and this one for "sleeping buds" (I will post the image when I finish the cable).
About old titanium 32ohm: I also heard that it was bright mid-centric and skipped that offer.
As for the wooden shell, I always pay attention to the following:





The first type with concave arc back can be seen on the models: NiceHCK EBX, Toneking models, Yinman 600om, etc.
EBX uses a 14.8mm driver but because of this shape seems like 15.4mm in the ear. Personally, I avoid this shape because I do not have good sealing.
The second "angled" shape uses Moondrop and also can be seen on Yinman 150ohm and some DIY models. This form is ok.
The third with a concave arc s my favorite shape for the reason that it has good ergonomics and is comfortable.
I will explain more about the design and ergonomics of different types of shells that I own when I have free time.
I recently tried a little experiment with this shell. The stock shell is too shallow and does not have good air circulation. On the plus side, the 15mm driver fits very well
and it's light-weight. So I try to drill hole on the backside and the shell split from heat into two parts. I replaced back part with a custom made wooden part. 
I added a small hole at the back and mmcx socket.




Wood is not good quality but it served well for this experiment. The harder the tree the better.
The soundstage on these is wide and deep and it's quite noticeable. The sound is warm and resonance is produce an interesting effect.
For mid-centric drivers is a good choice, for bass dominant will be overwhelming.


----------



## Themilkman46290

I see you guys using medical tape on the inside of your shells, have you guys tried fluffing up cotton? When I was younger we used to fill subwoofer boxes with loose fluffy cotton and it would make it sound deeper, more controlled, basically it made a small box sound like a big box, I started doing it with my buds recently and noticed it helps to remove some harshness and slightly boost  the bass a bit, but it depends on drivers, sounds great on my 130ohm not so good on the 600ogm........


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> I see you guys using medical tape on the inside of your shells, have you guys tried fluffing up cotton? When I was younger we used to fill subwoofer boxes with loose fluffy cotton and it would make it sound deeper, more controlled, basically it made a small box sound like a big box, I started doing it with my buds recently and noticed it helps to remove some harshness and slightly boost  the bass a bit, but it depends on drivers, sounds great on my 130ohm not so good on the 600ogm........


Yup. "Fluffing" cotton is probably the most used dampening material, also is it great to reduce cavity size. Probably the best material is mineral wool but for earbuds 
but that would be so ridiculous


----------



## robar (Feb 4, 2020)

furyossa said:


> For 14.8mm driver I only used metal shell (blue one on image below), PK, Docomo and this one for "sleeping buds" (I will post the image when I finish the cable).
> About old titanium 32ohm: I also heard that it was bright mid-centric and skipped that offer.
> As for the wooden shell, I always pay attention to the following:
> 
> ...


Thanks again for the amazing detailed answer  From my collection I really like the angled profile of qian69 and the concave profile of faaeal z-sound. The qian39 is very comfortable as well.
BTW the metal shell on your images looks the same as RY04's shell, but that whole earbud is cheaper than the listing of the empty shell lol. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32655283684.html

I was thinking about building a wood earbud with big open vents similar to headroom ms16, do you think it would work?
I bought the 3-hole wood shell from cklewis and while the shape was good for me personally, unfortunately I received faulty products where the two sides had different diameters and also none of them snapped on 15.4mm speakers so they're sitting in my box of unused shells. This is why I'm interested in the 6-hole matte wood from nsc. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000477388117.html

I have quite a lot of "gray area 15mm" shells from cheap buds on aliexpress, which are too big for 14.8mm but too loose for 15.4mm, sadly I couldn't find a way to reliably attach a 15.4mm speaker to them without glue. These are some of the "gray area" shells I couldn't use so far: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32903306888.html (this is almost good but the glue damaged the edge >) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887035677.html (h180 lookalike but the edge radius is smaller > ) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32882471978.html
I also tried this which happened to be 14.8mm but the stem was very weakly attached and fell out: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32894965305.html


----------



## subwoof3r (Feb 4, 2020)

robar said:


> Btw how do you drill such tiny perfect holes? I plan to acquire the necessary tools but I'm not sure what to buy. Do you use hand drill similar to what @assassin10000 posted? It's a shame those white tuning foams are so expensive haha. So looking at the foam arrangement, did you find that the small parts of the horseshoe plus the square is better than simply putting the whole horseshoe on in the same place?


Exactly, I'm using the exact same tool, but I'm using my Digital Caliper (Tacklife DC02) to ensure using the right drills each time 
The drills are very fragile depending of the diameter (especially less than 0.8mm, but thats no surprise anyway.. ^^)

I'm using this type of holes in most of my MMCX mods, its more convenient to do (easier and better looks/finish), almost invisible to final users (me ) and the result is really here depending on the holes diameters (I never exceed 1.0mm, the biggest holes were on my PK shells mods but into the bass port directly, not like my MX500 picture)
Also, its responds well with all kind of foams (except perhaps foams with too high density).

For the extra square foam added, I think its better with, but need some more experimentations to confirm, as its very fresh yet.




furyossa said:


> Maybe I missing something but these Titanium 32ohm can be found in many Aliexpress stores. Here is the lowest price
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000592420513.html


Thanks for the link! added in my shopping cart  I will try these (anyway for the price, no risk). Also, a little comparison between the 64 ohm will be welcome I guess. From what I can read in the GHXamp customers reviews they are axed for bassheads with poor mids and treble (exaggerated "V" sound type?)... hmm that makes me hesitating but I really want to give a try anyway.


----------



## robar (Feb 4, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> Exactly, I'm using the exact same tool, but I'm using my Digital Caliper (Tacklife DC02) to ensure using the right drills each time
> The drills are very fragile depending of the diameter (especially less than 0.8mm, but thats no surprise anyway.. ^^)
> 
> I'm using this type of holes in most of my MMCX mods, its more convenient to do (easier and better looks/finish), almost invisible to final users (me ) and the result is really here depending on the holes diameters (I never exceed 1.0mm, the biggest holes were on my PK shells mods but into the bass port directly, not like my MX500 picture)
> ...


Thanks I'll try to get some kind of hand drill. I had some minor success with wine opener but the drill is far from precise haha
Nope those ghxamp drivers seem like the exact opposite, I'm not sure what that last reviewer was thinking but everybody else who tried those drivers said that it's a bright midcentric sound with shallow bass > this is why it's called monitor. But the treble must be good. of course it would be interesting to hear your impressions. There was a guy on EA who had both and he said treble is better on the monitor 32ohm but the bass is a lot better on the 64ohm titanium


----------



## furyossa (Feb 4, 2020)

robar said:


> Thanks again for the amazing detailed answer  From my collection I really like the angled profile of qian69 and the concave profile of faaeal z-sound. The qian39 is very comfortable as well.
> BTW the metal shell on your images looks the same as RY04's shell, but that whole earbud is cheaper than the listing of the empty shell lol. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32655283684.html
> 
> I was thinking about building a wood earbud with big open vents similar to headroom ms16, do you think it would work?
> ...


You have to take into account that RY use indestructible glue if you try to soften it by heating I think aluminum will soften first than glue  You can find on Ali also a red and blue variant as a whole earbud.
I think that the cover of the driver has a metal mesh (16mm) and it's easy to disassemble. Yup. I see now you mention these "gray area 15mm"
These NSC shells are very cheap. These with mmcx seem promising. But shell markings are so ... BIG . I already suggested in the previous post, if the diameter of shell is smaller then driver cover you can place double-sided adhesive tape on the inner walls of the cover
to decrease diameter and use glue on some places of the shell. The glue will stay on tape but not on the plastic cover which is good if you plan to make some changes later.
Edit: I bought from RY store RY4S Plus (silver) and mmcx is so outside of shell.
I thought it would fall off after I pull the cables off. But still, this is very "dangerous" glue after all


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> You have to take into account that RY use indestructible glue if you try to soften it by heating I think aluminum will soften first than glue  You can find on Ali also a red and blue variant as a whole earbud.
> I think that the cover of the driver has a metal mesh (16mm) and it's easy to disassemble. Yup. I see now you mention these "gray area 15mm"
> These NSC shells are very cheap. These with mmcx seem promising. But shell markings are so ... BIG . I already suggested in the previous post, if the diameter of shell is smaller then driver cover you can place double-sided adhesive tape on the inner walls of the cover
> to decrease diameter and use glue on some places of the shell. The glue will stay on tape but not on the plastic cover which is good if you plan to make some changes later.
> ...


I tried slicing up double sided tape before for those shells, but I couldn't really make a straight 1mm strip, and even then I don't know how would I put it on place precisely. The tape doesn't really stick to the plastic either, it slips off very easily just about the first time I try to put on a cover. My conclusion was that it's not worth the effort for me. I have some salvaged covers though, I'll try to put in vido speakers, maybe they fit


----------



## assassin10000

I would look into a PVA or some sort of non-hardening glue that can be peeled off and isn't permanent for fixing the driver to the shell.


----------



## HungryPanda

I use E8000 glue, sticks well but can be easily opened


----------



## subwoof3r

HungryPanda said:


> I use E8000 glue, sticks well but can be easily opened


Definitely, this glue is the best for sticking drivers perfectly, loves the way how its easy to be removed after.
Can you please remember me which glue are you using for your MMCX mods (or when you want something more serious) ? I remember a letter and numbers but can't remember which one


----------



## HungryPanda

I use an epoxy two part glue to set mmcx connectors, I tried a glue gun but it is just too messy


----------



## caracal

Guys does anyone know is it possible to mount diy drivers on a sony E808+ shell?
Is the shell 15.4, 14.8 or some "gray area" in-between?


----------



## robar (Feb 6, 2020)

I opened up my Faael Z-sound that I bought for 2.8usd on a sale. I think it has the potential to be a very nice base for DIY mods, because the shell is comfortable and the whole thing is neatly built. Taking off the front cover was very easy, there is no glue or at least I couldn't see any residue. The speaker is quite decent for the price, but the stock tuning is quite rough, because there is a peak around 2-4khz which makes the upper mids thin and harsh. Fortunately, there is nothing on the shell, only the speaker has a horseshoe so improving things wont be hard I guess. It would be also interesting to drill additional vents on the shell. I didn't desolder the speakers so I cant know for sure, but it looks like standard 14.8mm compatible to me. Will post updates on my progress.

(EDIT) So I tried bunch of things with foams but the brightness around 2-4khz is persistent. I think more vents needed for smoother sound. Removing the strain relief have a big effect by the way, it increases frequencies in the lows/mids, making the sound warmer and boomier but more dynamic. I'm not really comfortable with drilling and I don't have precise equipment either so I'll try some additional things before modding the shell.

@subwoof3r Do you have a picture of how the EB2 looks inside? If I remember correctly you adjusted the tuning of it, but the head-fi search is broken or at least I couldn't make it work haha. I'd like to see how a similar shell to Z-sound is tuned. From the aliexpress images I can see that it has 2 strips of vents on the sides plus one or two holes at the top, it would be interesting to see the foam arrangement inside.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 6, 2020)

caracal said:


> Guys does anyone know is it possible to mount diy drivers on a sony E808+ shell?
> Is the shell 15.4, 14.8 or some "gray area" in-between?


Here are some comments related to SONY E808
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/page-24#post-13182694
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-973#post-13041575
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/page-25#post-13213893


----------



## caracal

furyossa said:


> Here are some comments related to SONY E808
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/page-24#post-13182694
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-973#post-13041575
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/absolute-best-budget-earbuds.812853/page-25#post-13213893


Thank you. I found the one where is told that the driver is 16mm size, though got the new info that it was measured and actually the driver itself is 15.3mm.
But no info about the mounting say mx500 drivers.


----------



## HungryPanda

I have recabled a few Sony E808's but not changed the drivers


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> @subwoof3r Do you have a picture of how the EB2 looks inside? If I remember correctly you adjusted the tuning of it, but the head-fi search is broken or at least I couldn't make it work haha. I'd like to see how a similar shell to Z-sound is tuned. From the aliexpress images I can see that it has 2 strips of vents on the sides plus one or two holes at the top, it would be interesting to see the foam arrangement inside.


From my memory, EB2 were easy to open, I remember that the tuning cotton foams were badly placed into the two shells, resulting a less bassy sound overall. The trick was just to replace the cottons foams, or use the already placed ones and re-adjust them properly (at the cost of some less adhesive tape in some parts).
Also, I remember EB2 were using PK2 drivers but I replaced them with other PK2 drivers variant (can't remember which ones now) which was probably original PK2 drivers and which helped EB2 to sound a bit better.
But I remember anyway EB2 were not really sounding the way I wanted, it was one of my first open earbuds experimentations LONG time ago, I learned a lot since


----------



## purplesun (Feb 9, 2020)

caracal said:


> Thank you. I found the one where is told that the driver is 16mm size, though got the new info that it was measured and actually the driver itself is 15.3mm.


Yeah, I vernier measured it to be 15.3mm few months ago, but i have never swapped out the drivers before. Will measure it again next week when I`m home.

EDIT (10 Feb):


----------



## furyossa

subwoof3r said:


> From my memory, EB2 were easy to open, I remember that the tuning cotton foams were badly placed into the two shells, resulting a less bassy sound overall. The trick was just to replace the cottons foams, or use the already placed ones and re-adjust them properly (at the cost of some less adhesive tape in some parts).
> Also, I remember EB2 were using PK2 drivers but I replaced them with other PK2 drivers variant (can't remember which ones now) which was probably original PK2 drivers and which helped EB2 to sound a bit better.
> But I remember anyway EB2 were not really sounding the way I wanted, it was one of my first open earbuds experimentations LONG time ago, I learned a lot since


I never listen NiceHCK EB2 but I don't know is it mediocre driver or shape of the shell or even tuning that affects the sound quality. Same case with K's LBB.
I think that the shape of a shell has a lot of potentials. Sony MDR-Z1R has a similar cap. Of course, SONY use very unique tech for every single part of headphones.
The picture below shows how the sound is reflected in this form.




More info https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sony-mdr-z1r-sealed-over-ear-headphones


----------



## caracal (Feb 6, 2020)

purplesun said:


> Yeah, I vernier measured it to be 15.3mm few months ago, but i have never swapped out the drivers before. Will measure it again next week when I`m home.


Would appreciate it 

So I bought some used and half-dead genuine sennheisers mx170 and mx375.
These buds are very similar in driver parts' form, have 15.4mm drivers and are fully compatible with mx500-like diy ones.
I personally like mx170 fit more than mx500 and find it interesting for diy builds 
The mx170/365 shell is not presented on aliexpress yet, but you can either order it on taobao or buy used ones.



The caps hold on glue, and sometimes are hard to open (2 of 3 I did). I even broke one driver opening mx170.
While mx170/365 shell is a solid piece of plastic with a spot for a horseshoe tuning cotton, mx375 one is much more complex.



It consists of three parts which hold on plastic pins, glue and a screw. Even being quite careful it is very easy to accidentally break a pin.
I thought the cable management is under the lighter part, but it appeared to be a decorative piece.
The hole from the cable chamber to the driver one is very narrow.
Another tricky thing is that driver caps snap very tight on mx375 shell making it hard to open again if the parts aren't glued back together. Otherwise I guess it's very easy to break.
So I think mx375 may be useful for making builds but not that good for experimenting a lot.



Right now I don't have drivers and cables to experiment with apart from rygmr and vido, but want to order some mentioned there 
Btw guys do you still order despite that virus outbreak?


----------



## GREQ

caracal said:


> Btw guys do you still order despite that virus outbreak?


These kinds of viruses (flu etc) only usually last a few hours on the surface of an object, so there is practically no chance of it surviving days or weeks in transit.


----------



## furyossa

GREQ said:


> These kinds of viruses (flu etc) only usually last a few hours on the surface of an object, so there is practically no chance of it surviving days or weeks in transit.


They also cannot survive the "burn-in" process. Coronavirus not like pink noise


----------



## HungryPanda

I have ordered a couple of things from aliexpress and they are on the move


----------



## subwoof3r

HungryPanda said:


> I have ordered a couple of things from aliexpress and they are on the move


All my 26th january orders are still in "Awaiting Shipment" for me


----------



## furyossa

I just finish this MX500 "over-ear" mod prototype. I never have a proper fit with regular MX500 shells and I've been looking for a solution for some time. This concept (mmcx or cabled variant) can be worn over-ear or str8-up.


----------



## assassin10000

subwoof3r said:


> All my 26th january orders are still in "Awaiting Shipment" for me



About half of my orders from Jan 21st to Feb 4th have shipped.


----------



## robar

Where did you buy your hand drills? Are the cheap ones from aliexpress worth anything (like this), or should I buy a more expensive one from a local model makers' shop?  Do you have any recommended brands? 

BTW I had one order from the end of january but after a week I cancelled it.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Feb 19, 2020)

Here is my weekend project. This is my new PET, n50 32ohm. Super comfy and sound is nice. Firs time I have soldered and installed mmcx terminals in buds. It was quite the challenge in all honesty. Doing the install on my ER4S clone was much easier haha. Anyway this was a cheap test run before I wire up the 600ohm Beryllium in its shell.

I also broke open my KBear Knight buds and think they are some kind of titanium driver with n52 magnet. I didn’t like them honestly. Not after hearing quality buds. So thinking I’ll use the shells for something as I really like the way they hang on my ear.
Glad to see so much good info being shared on here lately as well!


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Where did you buy your hand drills? Are the cheap ones from aliexpress worth anything (like this), or should I buy a more expensive one from a local model makers' shop?  Do you have any recommended brands?
> 
> BTW I had one order from the end of january but after a week I cancelled it.


I use these two drills for aluminum and plastic shells
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32836204519.html (the similar model you can find it in a local hardware store)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000246310948.html (and this model for tin aluminum only)
and recently I both this titanium coated cutting bits
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867249964.html


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> First time I have soldered and installed mmcx terminals in buds. It was quite the challenge in all honesty.


Uh, tell me about it. I soldered many of them and still, this is the most difficult part for me. Female MMCX for shells and male MMCX for cable are a nightmare.


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> Where did you buy your hand drills? Are the cheap ones from aliexpress worth anything (like this), or should I buy a more expensive one from a local model makers' shop?  Do you have any recommended brands?
> 
> BTW I had one order from the end of january but after a week I cancelled it.



That's the one I have. Works ok.


----------



## robar

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Here is my weekend project. This is my new PET, n50 32ohm. Super comfy and sound is nice. First time I have soldered and installed mmcx terminals in buds. It was quite the challenge in all honesty. Doing the install on my ER4S clone was much easier haha. Anyway this was a cheap test run before I wire up the 600ohm Beryllium in its shell.
> 
> I also broke open my KBear Knight buds and think they are some kind of titanium driver with n52 magnet. I didn’t like them honestly. Not after hearing quality buds. So thinking I’ll use the shells for something as I really like the way they hang on my ear.
> Glad to see so much good info being shared on here lately as well!


Awesome glad we could help! Is this matte wood shell with mmcx from nsc store? Does it snap on n50 just fine without glue? I'd really like to try one but only if I know for sure that it snaps on speakers.
Could you share photos from the inside of kbear knight? Thanks! Btw it's not titanium, the listing says "biological" whatever it means.



furyossa said:


> I use these two drills for aluminum and plastic shells
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32836204519.html (the similar model you can find it in a local hardware store)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000246310948.html (and this model for tin aluminum only)
> and recently I both this titanium coated cutting bits
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867249964.html


Thanks, I'll look into them! At first I'll probably try a very cheap manual one before I invest in an electric type.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

robar said:


> Awesome glad we could help! Is this matte wood shell with mmcx from nsc store? Does it snap on n50 just fine without glue? I'd really like to try one but only if I know for sure that it snaps on speakers.
> Could you share photos from the inside of kbear knight? Thanks! Btw it's not titanium, the listing says "biological" whatever it means.
> 
> 
> Thanks, I'll look into them! At first I'll probably try a very cheap manual one before I invest in an electric type.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

That sounds right but will have to check on the store it is in my deleted purchases and I am on my cell. It is just plain old wood, no plastic coating at all on the shell. Look and feel great. I’ll probably reuse the shell and find another driver for them. I think the drivers in them would be good for the old knight shells.

I have a hard time believing KBears marketing on this one. Sure looks like some kind of alloy to me. But obviously no way to test it. I destroyed the drivers but you can see what’s inside. it’s got to be one of these drivers floating around. Sorry for the lighting...


----------



## robar (Feb 9, 2020)

I tinkered with my titanium 64ohm build and I made progress thank god haha. The basic setup (generic mx500 with full generic horseshoe) was quite dark and soft, I wasn't exactly a fan. Now after a bunch of experiments I changed the full generic horseshoe to one half of very thick foam from jietu and one half of the generic type. It pushed forward the frequencies below 200hz and above 1khz by 1-2dB, especially the upper areas which were pretty dark before. Now it's more livelier and punchier.  The low bass is more defined now as well, the first impression is quite positive. The treble is still a bit soft for me but maybe my source can't drive it to full potential. I'll test it for a few days and might try to improve it further. I plan to try the drill mod as well after I get the proper equipment. 



headenvelopedinsound said:


> That sounds right but will have to check on the store it is in my deleted purchases and I am on my cell. It is just plain old wood, no plastic coating at all on the shell. Look and feel great. I’ll probably reuse the shell and find another driver for them. I think the drivers in them would be good for the old knight shells.
> 
> I have a hard time believing KBears marketing on this one. Sure looks like some kind of alloy to me. But obviously no way to test it. I destroyed the drivers but you can see what’s inside. it’s got to be one of these drivers floating around. Sorry for the lighting...


Thanks for the pics! It does look more like titanium and not the typical transparent membranes, very interesting. Please update if you try to put some speaker on the shells, I'm very interested if it snaps on generic covers. I guess the 19-21khz bass or the titanium 64ohm would work pretty well in these.

Here's the link for the wood shell I was thinking about, this is the one you used? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000477388117.html
The N50 steel mesh is a pretty nice speaker but needs quite a bit of tinkering to get the balance right. I tried it in many shells but in the end I tuned it in a generic mx500 shell. Let me know how it sounds in the knight, but my feeling is that the knight shell need bassier speakers like what I mentioned above.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> The treble is still a bit soft for me but maybe my source can't drive it to full potential.


Same here, can't to anyhing to really improve treble part, which is missing a bit on my pair too.
But I really loves the imaging, soundstage, bass and the full mids on these drivers so it ended up to be my current favorite DIY drivers for now. For relaxed listening its the perfect choice I would say.
Not sure we can do something for the treble, as its just the speaker performance itself.
I'm switching with the other favorite 32 ohm drivers sometimes when I need more clarity and details and "V" sound shape with more intimate soundstage.
(the 32 ohm drivers I bought with 64 ohm titanium)


----------



## caracal (Feb 10, 2020)

Guys, is there a way to glue two parts of a driver back together, or some other method? The connecting wire is not torn.
I won't bother if it wasn't kind of a rare driver.


----------



## furyossa

caracal said:


> Guys, is there a way to glue two parts of a driver back together, or some other method? The connecting wire is not torn.
> I won't bother if it wasn't kind of a rare driver.


Just connect both parts and put a thin layer of glue on the joint


----------



## caracal

furyossa said:


> Just connect both parts and put a thin layer of glue on the joint


Which types of glue would you recommend?
And should this incident affect the sound in some way?


----------



## robar (Feb 10, 2020)

caracal said:


> Guys, is there a way to glue two parts of a driver back together, or some other method? The connecting wire is not torn.
> I won't bother if it wasn't kind of a rare driver.


Uh this is the worst besides truly dead drivers. @caracal I was in similar situation with some vido speakers, I found a lucky solution in this case, as  I just snapped the whole thing into a new cover and it keeps the speaker together to this day. You could try mx500 or dp100/mx760 covers for example, my pair is in dp100 covers now and works perfectly.


subwoof3r said:


> Same here, can't to anyhing to really improve treble part, which is missing a bit on my pair too.
> But I really loves the imaging, soundstage, bass and the full mids on these drivers so it ended up to be my current favorite DIY drivers for now. For relaxed listening its the perfect choice I would say.
> Not sure we can do something for the treble, as its just the speaker performance itself.
> I'm switching with the other favorite 32 ohm drivers sometimes when I need more clarity and details and "V" sound shape with more intimate soundstage.
> (the 32 ohm drivers I bought with 64 ohm titanium)


Yes I guess the 64ohm will never sound as crispy as others but the whole sound lacks a bit of tightness and definition while the measurement graph in itself looks very very fine. So it's not really about sound signature but a lack of drive in my opinion. So I think a dedicated amp or a more powerful dac would improve things noticeable in my case.  A little bit reminds me of my faaeal rosemary 150ohm which is very extreme in this dark/soft thing with my gear so I guess this could be the main problem


----------



## caracal

robar said:


> Uh this is the worst besides truly dead drivers. @caracal I was in similar situation with some vido speakers, I found a lucky solution in this case, as I just snapped the whole thing into a new cover and it keeps the speaker together to this day. You could try mx500 or dp100/mx760 covers for example, my pair is in dp100 covers now and works perfectly.


Sadly it's a mdr-e808 type driver, and it won't work with this one. Either it won't fit into mx500 or other caps.


----------



## furyossa

caracal said:


> Which types of glue would you recommend?
> And should this incident affect the sound in some way?


I use B-7000 but E-8000 is also good. Basically any glue they use for mobile phones can be used. You can buy one at a local phone service


----------



## furyossa

I'm looking a way to detach diaphragm from plastic cover without destroying cover? By the way my wires from voice coil are torn


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Yes I guess the 64ohm will never sound as crispy as others but the whole sound lacks a bit of tightness and definition while the measurement graph in itself looks very very fine. So it's not really about sound signature but a lack of drive in my opinion. So I think a dedicated amp or a more powerful dac would improve things noticeable in my case.  A little bit reminds me of my faaeal rosemary 150ohm which is very extreme in this dark/soft thing with my gear so I guess this could be the main problem


I think you really should give a try to the wonderful RadSone ES100 DAC/AMP ^^ I use it everyday at work, mobile use and even at home (which very often replace my Fostex HP-A8C because not balanced).
It have enough power to drive at least much more than 300ohm drivers (it has been proved), great DAC with a lot of details. At least for 99$ you won't have to worry of this anymore 
(don't forget to use my recommended settings into my SIG for best sound results)


----------



## robar (Feb 11, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> I think you really should give a try to the wonderful RadSone ES100 DAC/AMP ^^ I use it everyday at work, mobile use and even at home (which very often replace my Fostex HP-A8C because not balanced).
> It have enough power to drive at least much more than 300ohm drivers (it has been proved), great DAC with a lot of details. At least for 99$ you won't have to worry of this anymore
> (don't forget to use my recommended settings into my SIG for best sound results)


Thanks for the rec, I was thinking about the ES100 , where did you buy it?  My main concern is additional shipping/tax costs and the lack of proper warranty. However not a long ago the Fiio BTR5 came out which is said to be better by reviews and I can buy it in a local official shop for about 125usd equivalent, with proper warranty and no additional costs. This is my main candidate now for buying but it's too much for me at the moment. I was also considering the shanling UP2 as a cheaper alternative, because I'm not sure I'll ever use the balanced option honestly, but all costs added it would be more like 90usd instead of 70 so it's not that good value anymore. And I often check the local second hand listings as well, maybe I'll find something nice around 60-80usd. Ususally there are a bunch of older Fiio/SMSL/Sabaj stuff there for really cheap (like E10K Oly2, SMSL IQ, Sabaj DA3 etc), though I'm not sure if they're still worth something after the release of BTR5. I was also considering a Topping NX1S amp, but that wouldn't upgrade my dac department which is also lacking (plus high output impedance for 32ohm buds), so I'd prefer an all in one solution at the moment.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Feb 11, 2020)

robar said:


> I tinkered with my titanium 64ohm build and I made progress thank god haha. The basic setup (generic mx500 with full generic horseshoe) was quite dark and soft, I wasn't exactly a fan. Now after a bunch of experiments I changed the full generic horseshoe to one half of very thick foam from jietu and one half of the generic type. It pushed forward the frequencies below 200hz and above 1khz by 1-2dB, especially the upper areas which were pretty dark before. Now it's more livelier and punchier.  The low bass is more defined now as well, the first impression is quite positive. The treble is still a bit soft for me but maybe my source can't drive it to full potential. I'll test it for a few days and might try to improve it further. I plan to try the drill mod as well after I get the proper equipment.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the pics! It does look more like titanium and not the typical transparent membranes, very interesting. Please update if you try to put some speaker on the shells, I'm very interested if it snaps on generic covers. I guess the 19-21khz bass or the titanium 64ohm would work pretty well in these.
> ...



Yup those are the shells. They don’t really hold super tight without glue. But with foams on they are fine to play with tuning before gluing them. Just don’t use a lot of glue and it’s really a nonissue. I think I’ll probably keep the n50s in these shells for a bit and wait for some parts to come in from Ali to finish up my main project, 600ohm berylliums.

I will chime in on the portable Bluetooth amps. I was all set for the ES100 and even asked for it for Christmas, luckily I got cash for a unit of my choice. The makers of the ES100 are hard at work making the 5K. It should be out in a month or two and be around the $100 mark. If you haven’t bought and can wait this is the ticket. Again same guys who made the ES100. https://www.qudelix.com/


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Thanks for the rec, I was thinking about the ES100 , where did you buy it?  My main concern is additional shipping/tax costs and the lack of proper warranty. However not a long ago the Fiio BTR5 came out which is said to be better by reviews and I can buy it in a local official shop for about 125usd equivalent, with proper warranty and no additional costs. This is my main candidate now for buying but it's too much for me at the moment. I was also considering the shanling UP2 as a cheaper alternative, because I'm not sure I'll ever use the balanced option honestly, but all costs added it would be more like 90usd instead of 70 so it's not that good value anymore. And I often check the local second hand listings as well, maybe I'll find something nice around 60-80usd. Ususally there are a bunch of older Fiio/SMSL/Sabaj stuff there for really cheap (like E10K Oly2, SMSL IQ, Sabaj DA3 etc), though I'm not sure if they're still worth something after the release of BTR5. I was also considering a Topping NX1S amp, but that wouldn't upgrade my dac department which is also lacking (plus high output impedance for 32ohm buds), so I'd prefer an all in one solution at the moment.


If you care about BT codecs then Shanling UP2 is the top choice. 
Best output power goes to Fiio BTR5 especialy balanced output (3.5mm > 80mW x 2 [32ohm] ; 2.5mm > 240mW x 2 [32ohm]).
Best software ie app, no doubt, ES100 takes the 1st place. The app alone is worth more than 100$.
Cleanest sound without any noise and best Freq. response (10hz-100kHz), SamlingRate(DSD512) and PCM (768kHz) 
goes to SMSL IQ. The only thing that I didn't like is a low output power on 2.5mm out, but if you use it with PC then you
not need to worry.


----------



## robar

@headenvelopedinsound @furyossa Wow thanks for the tips! I would use the dac mainly via usb for maximum sound quality, but for more casual scenarios I'd often switch it to bluetooth. I was also considering to separate these functions into two devices, so for example getting a BTR1K for casual/background listening via bluetooth or usb on my laptop and a bigger more powerful device for desktop pc ike DA3, IQ etc. But the BTR5 seems to do both things quite well, I'd be just a bit afraid to carry that around with me everywhere lol. @furyossa Did you have the SMSL IQ? It has the same internal hardware as the Sabaj DA3, just with an additional battery. I read that these earlier sabre chips can have a bright almost piercing sound to them and the newer chips in the UP2 and BTR5 are more netural and detailed, this is why I'm hesitant about them. Have you experienced this? Otherwise their specs and form factor seems quite nice to me, and their price is usually 2/3rd of the btr5. (Sabaj DA3 is available in eu warehouse on aliexpress, smsl iq is very frequent in local second hand listings)


----------



## furyossa

Yup. I skipped Sabaj and purchase SMSL. They build under the same "roof". Some Sabaj devices have a problem with mobile phones and USB connection. I don't know if they solved this with the new firmware. SMSL has an option for USB 1.1 (for old devices) and USB 2.0. 
Maybe older ESS chip have the problem with piercing sound but IQ works nice. My iBasso DC01 uses AK chip, it's warmer then EES which has clearer treble. 
Nowadays I will probably go with BTR5. I love ES100 app but I don't like to use EQ so BTR5 for sure.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

Main thing I like about the 5K device is that it’s got a ton of power both balanced and unbalanced. It uses both chips to power the headphones even in unbalanced mode. I also like that it’s got a lot going on for eq options, which I have a few sets that I’ve got EQ profiles for saved into Logic Pro for my studio work. and this would translate over very well.


----------



## robar (Feb 11, 2020)

Thanks @furyossa  @headenvelopedinsound Thanks I'll look into that as well. 

In the meantime I was searching for alternatives to the hand drill in the family tools, and I've found this vintage beauty from my late grandfather. Not exactly a hand drill but I think it could work well for this purpose, the grip is nice and I can put any drill bit into it. I only found 1.5mm drills, do you think it could work well on the Z-sound shell? It has almost no vents at the moment (3 extremely tiny ones) so one 1.5mm hole wouldn't be too much overall but I don't know if the relatively large diameter causes unwanted effects on the sound signature.


----------



## robar (Feb 11, 2020)

Quick update - so the drill solution works very nicely, I can make a hole in about half a minute. I drilled one new hole on the side and enlarged  one of the existing ones on the Z-sound shell. The harsh peak around 2-2.5khz  completely vanished, the sound now is much smoother gentler. I'm in the process of tuning it, will update on the progress in the upcoming days. I think more but smaller holes would have been better in terms of finer control in the tuning process, but I'd still consider this a successful experiment because it eliminated the main problem. Now I have to find the right balance between open and covered vents and find the most effective foam setup. Lots of variables to grind through haha


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> where did you buy it?


Directly on Amazon(.fr)


----------



## furyossa (Jun 1, 2021)

After a couple of shell revisions(3-4 max), I finally found the almost perfect one for my high impedance drivers.
First I tried these shells, which is my previous top choice, but this model is a nice upgrade. Of course, there is some trick that needs to be done before we put a "driver in place".
These are 15.4mm DIY 600ohm beryllium-coated aka the "*Blue-bery*" and DIY 400ohm graphene-coated aka "*Hellboy*" 




With all earphones, the most important thing is the sound no doubt but for me personally "the look and feel" ie design and comfort are also essential things that affect the overall experience. The main characteristics of high impedance drivers are clear and balanced sound, also these require more power so the balanced cable can be useful in this case. Probably you already familiar with these two drivers so I'll skip the part "How these sounds". Let's experts do that. 
Now the shells. My revisions of shells are mostly based on trying out plastic, wooden and metal ones with different inner cavity sizes.
Metal shells are most durable with a low level of resonance. Any "open back" shells are not practical for outdoor use due to poor noise insulation and moisture condensation. Also, I try to avoid sponge filters inside the cavity as they fall apart over time. Foam and wool are the most suitable. The illustration below shows some things to look out when selecting a shell for DIY.






Blue text represent _*PROS, *_red *CONS *and black shared opinion or comment
1. "Concave arc" shape allows a very comfortable fit, especially if the driver diameter is large.
2. The angle between the shell and the neck of the shell is 90 degrees.
3. Back-side vent with mesh is present and allows proper air circulation and more spacious sound.
4. "A-detail" shows ''LIP" of shell which holds driver hover. The connection is so good that you cannot detach the driver after mounting it on the shell.
This is good only if you not plan to play with the tuning. To fix this I use a diamond file to remove extended lip (see the yellow dotted line).
5. "B-detail": MMCX the connector that comes bundled with the shell has a very unusual shape. Since MMCX didn't have any threads for connection with the shell
there are two ways how to solve this problem: by using glue or shrinking tube . I used the 2nd option. First I tried to cover the whole connector but
then it could not pass due to an internal protrusion in the neck of the shell. By covering only the pins and press it hard inside the shell the connector will be stuck and stay still.
6. Through trying different shells with different sizes, I noticed that certain drivers did not respond well (sounds hallow) with the larger cavity size. Fortunately, these two drivers turned out great in the new shell which I call "semi-big" cavity size. These shells in terms of sound are quite reminiscent of open-back headphones which I like a lot.
7. Although these shells are lightweight, the multi-core cables, because of its weight, tends to rotate the shell and break up the seal. On the plus side, these earbuds can be worn over-ear or str8-up.
8. The shell "HORN" shape allows very good air-flow and very low sound reflection.
9. The rotation point is where the earbuds housing touches the earlobe ie ANTITRAGUS.
10. The last image shows one of 3 additional tuning options. To remove any protrusion that can cause unwanted sound reflection inside the shell, 
we can use hot glue or blu-tack (green color). For this shell, this option is not applied.
11. By adding tuning cotton with different diameters of the center hole (where the cable passes to the driver) we can reduce airflow and achieve
the effect similar to smaller cavity shells. Again, it all depends on the type of driver itself. For mid-centric types, I like to use shells with larger cavity size
and for the types where the bass dominates, medium cavity size shells.
12. The 3rd option proved to be the best in this case. The frequency response curve is very similar for these two drivers. Graphene has a bit forward mids in comparison with beryllium and beryllium have better defined low end. I added a tin wool filter in front of the vent to reduce bass and bring back the cleaner mids. 
This option is convenient because we can always remove the mesh from the vent and change the filter.
That's it. ... and of course a beauty shot


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Thanks @furyossa  @headenvelopedinsound Thanks I'll look into that as well.
> 
> In the meantime, I was searching for alternatives to the hand drill in the family tools, and I've found this vintage beauty from my late grandfather. Not exactly a hand drill but I think it could work well for this purpose, the grip is nice and I can put any drill bit into it. I only found 1.5mm drills, do you think it could work well on the Z-sound shell? It has almost no vents at the moment (3 extremely tiny ones) so one 1.5mm hole wouldn't be too much overall but I don't know if the relatively large diameter causes unwanted effects on the sound signature.


I like your retro-drill a lot. I don't think that this drill is ever used for something like earphones shell. Anyway if you drill a larger hole just use foam filter and cover it from inside. Then with the needle punch another smaller hole through the foam and test the sound. If it's too small just enlarge it


----------



## subwoof3r (Feb 12, 2020)

furyossa said:


> After a couple of shell revisions(3-4 max), I finally found the almost perfect one for my high impedance drivers.
> First I tried these shells, which is my previous top choice, but this model is a nice upgrade. Of course, there is some trick that needs to be done before we put a "driver in place".
> These are 15.4mm DIY 600ohm beryllium-coated aka the "*Blue-bery*" and DIY 400ohm graphene-coated aka "*Hellboy*"
> 
> ...


Nice!
About the "*B - detail*" part, do you have some hint to share about the MMCX pin socket? do the sockets needs to be screwed and then soldered (which is impossible then I guess) or soldered before screwed ? or simply glued without screwed up into the shells?
Screwing once soldered into the shell is very hard because most of the time wires may detach while screwing.
I had bad experience using metla shells MMCX just about that so I hd to abandon my project and revert back to plastic shells.

also, can you please share a little pic of the "tin wool filter " material you use?


----------



## furyossa (Feb 12, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> Nice!
> About the "*B - detail*" part, do you have some hint to share about the MMCX pin socket? do the sockets needs to be screwed and then soldered (which is impossible then I guess) or soldered before screwed ? or simply glued without screwed up into the shells?
> Screwing once soldered into the shell is very hard because most of the time wires may detach while screwing.
> I had bad experience using metla shells MMCX just about that so I hd to abandon my project and revert back to plastic shells.
> ...


I honestly took a little risk when buying these shells because before these I both silver and black pairs of this one.
I use it for my first Beryllium 130ohm and now for Titanium64ohm and belive me Titanium sounds a lot better in metal shells (I'll post my test these days)
For silver and black shells, you need to use glue on both ends (for driver and mmcx). So you have so-called "one-time shell".
And because it has a thinner neck, most of the time wires may detach while putting mmcx in the neck of the shell. This is the part when I go crazy.

This new shells (red and blue) are superior in many ways:
- better fit and comfort especially if you wear them over your ear
- mat metallic finish and 4 colors to choose
- you don't need to use glue for anything
- the neck of the shell is not so thin and looks nicer when you put mmxc cable
- mmcx socket is easier to solder because the distance between the pins is larger. It's literally the same as a male connector on the cable




It's is simple:
- solder the wires first (solder ground wire a bit inside and isolate signal wire with shrinking tube) #2
- cover only pins with shrinking tube #3
- push hard mmcx socket into the shell
You can use a small amount of glue if you want, but I remained "clean" until the end, NO GLUE 
The most annoying part here is to trim "the lip" of the shell. My advice is to try first with some "broken" driver after the trimming process. When I first installed the driver I had to break the cover so I could remove it from the shell.

About wool filter. I bought it at the bookstore A4 format of EVA foam with a hairy texture (like let's say peach). This is a little thicker (2mm). Also, I found this
this paper that literally resembles wool


----------



## robar (Feb 12, 2020)

I had another breakthrough with the Z-sound mod, apart from the additional vents, I also removed the installed horseshoe from the speaker and put tuning foam on the vents. With this the sound become neutral/warm with good midbass and full mids/vocals, very pleasant low fatigue sound for casual use. The low bass and high treble are rolled off due to the speaker itself, the overall sound become very wide and smooth, though somewhat soft especially suited for folk/jazz etc. I think it's a nice contender in the ultra budget earbud category (below 6-8usd) now.  With upgraded speakers it would be especially nice, it just needs a bit more extension, resolution and crispiness. I'll tinker with the foams further then post pics.


furyossa said:


> I like your retro-drill a lot. I don't think that this drill is ever used for something like earphones shell. Anyway if you drill a larger hole just use foam filter and cover it from inside. Then with the needle punch another smaller hole through the foam and test the sound. If it's too small just enlarge it


Thanks for the tips! Yes haha I searched for it on the net and this is a heavy duty drill chunk that is still in production to this day, costing around 160usd. Good for exercise as well as the thing weights somewhere around 1kg.
About the earlier steel shells (silver/black) you linked - the Fengru PT32 seem to use a very similar shell, and that earbud costs 2/3rd of the price. Also I found very similar ones for sale at NSC store for much less money (6-8usd/pair instead of 15): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000117028399.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000173977762.html

By the way, do you think something like the smsl iq/sabaj da3 would drive the titanium 64ohm well on unbalanced? Or should I just save up to a bt5 or k3 and call it a day


----------



## furyossa (Feb 12, 2020)

robar said:


> I had another breakthrough with the Z-sound mod, apart from the additional vents, I also removed the installed horseshoe from the speaker and put tuning foam on the vents. With this the sound become neutral/warm with good midbass and full mids/vocals, very pleasant low fatigue sound for casual use. The low bass and high treble are rolled off due to the speaker itself, the overall sound become very wide and smooth, though somewhat soft especially suited for folk/jazz etc. I think it's a nice contender in the ultra budget category (below 6-8usd) now.  With upgraded speakers it would be especially nice, it just needs a bit more extension, resolution and crispiness. I'll tinker with the foams further then post pics.
> 
> Thanks for the tips! Yes haha I searched for it on the net and this is a heavy duty drill chunk that is still in production to this day, costing around 160usd. Good for exercise as well as the thing weights somewhere around 1kg.
> About the earlier steel shells (silver/black) you linked - the Fengru PT32 seem to use a very similar shell, and that earbud costs 2/3rd of the price. Also I found very similar ones for sale at NSC store for much less money (6-8usd/pair instead of 15): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000117028399.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000173977762.html
> ...


Yup. These are exactly the same shell. I both silver and black before the colored version with mat finish came out. At that time only the Chitty store has these.
Of course, NSC always has a better offer for 20-30% less. These shells are my 3rd favorite right now. 1st place share this one which I already described in the previous post and this model.
I can't decide which one is better. The second model is more suitable for boomy drivers, has a small cavity size and simulates closed-back headphones. I plan to make comparation for the same driver in shells with small, medium and large cavity sizes in the future. I probably will use beryllium 130ohm since I have 3 pairs only for these.
Try to avoid this model at all costs. I ordered the silver model. They send me a silver model with both "R" markings.
One cover is like a grid with elongated holes and second, it has round holes  . MX500 cover is a bit larger than a shell. But that's not the main problem.
MMCX socket connection with the shell is great but you need to screw 10 -12 times and wires are always detached while screwing.
I spent many hours finalizing this. So forget about it. I'm interested in this "gun-metal" version.

About the DAC's. Yes. SMSL IQ can drive my 300ohm earbuds. If you are looking BT DAC then go with the BTR5, it has many great features.
Take a look at this USB DAC. This is probably the best money/value DAC right now. See the review. Similar DAC chip as SMSL IQ.
This is the thread where explain differences between ES9018K2M (Fever DAC) and ES9018Q2M (SMSL IQ)


----------



## robar (Feb 12, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Yup. These are exactly the same shell. I both silver and black before the colored version with mat finish came out. At that time only the Chitty store has these.
> Of course, NSC always has a better offer for 20-30% less. These shells are my 3rd favorite right now. 1st place share this one which I already described in the previous post and this model.
> I can't decide which one is better. The second model is more suitable for boomy drivers, has a small cavity size and simulates closed-back headphones. I plan to make comparation for the same driver in shells with small, medium and large cavity sizes in the future. I probably will use beryllium 130ohm since I have 3 pairs only for these.
> Try to avoid this model at all costs. I ordered the silver model. They send me a silver model with both "R" markings.
> ...


Wow thanks for the info about the shells, I wanted to ask about some of those as well. I'm also interested in the metal 14.8mm shells, but I have to get some drivers first.
The IQ can drive 300ohm speakers unbalanced? By the specs it doesn't look very powerful in that mode (about 50-60mw at 32ohm if I remember correctly)
I've seen that noname sabre dac last year from these listings: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32868505086.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32932392383.html At that time I skipped it because of the scarce info and mixed feedback, and went with the SMSL X4 instead. I never thought it would surpass the smsl idea. The hardware is nice but I'm concerned about the implementation quality. Do you have one? It would be great even for a backup if it can drive the titanium64 well, I could sell smsl x4 for more than the 20 usd this costs.

I have a little bit similar shaped shell to one of your favorites in plastic sadly it's slightly smaller than the 15.4mm covers so I haven't used it so far. It could be a base for an interesting ultra budget build as well. i think panda built something with it once. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32903306888.html


----------



## furyossa (Feb 12, 2020)

robar said:


> Wow thanks for the info about the shells, I wanted to ask about some of those as well. I'm also interested in the metal 14.8mm shells, but I have to get some drivers first.
> The IQ can drive 300ohm speakers unbalanced? By the specs it doesn't look very powerful in that mode (about 50-60mw at 32ohm if I remember correctly)
> I've seen that noname sabre dac last year from this listing: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32868505086.html At that time I skipped it because of the scarce info and mixed feedback, and went with the SMSL X4 instead. I never thought it would surpass the smsl idea. Do you have one? It would be great even for a backup if it can drive the titanium64 well, I could sell smsl x4 for more than the 20 usd this costs.


Sorry, I mean it can drive balanced, not sure for unbalanced with 300ohm. But 64ohm for sure. I drive graphene 400ohm on my LG G7.
Are you looking for portable DAC, or BT DAC or desktop DAC?
On 11.11 I order iBasso DC01 and Samson QH4 (4 - channel headphone amp). QH4 is a very beautiful AMP and is not expensive. IMHO for A/B comparison is the top choice.
IBasso has a balanced 2.5mm output and QH4 has 3.5mm unbalanced and two 6.35mm individual inputs for a balanced connection. It is difficult to find a cable 2.5mm to dual 6.35mm so I order the parts to make it one.
First I try iBasso with 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter cable and then I plug the AUX cable but this connection cause interference. Then I try 2.5mm to dual RCA cable with iBasoo and again the same problem. I don't know what is the problem here. When I try Hidizs Sonata HD dongle with AUX cable and Samson QH4 everting works fine, no interference and strange noise. So I decided to buy a balanced desktop DAC. iFi made a very affordable model last year
iFi Zen DAC. For a similar price as BTR5, iFi Zen DAC is an amazing device with a Burr-Brown DAC chip, plus it has MQA support.
Also, there is a BT version but with ESS chip iFi Zen Blue.
And now I have another challenge: How to make 4.4mm balanced to dual 6.35mm cable? 
For 2.5mm to dual 6.35mm I make these two schemes (version#1 [no ground] and version#2 [with ground]). Which one is suitable for iBasoo DC1 and Samson QS4?





I need also a scheme for 4.4mm (TRRRS) balanced to dual 6.35mm (TRS).
I'm not an expert in this are so suggestions are welcome.


----------



## robar (Feb 12, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Sorry, I mean it can drive balanced, not sure for unbalanced with 300ohm. But 64ohm for sure. I drive graphene 400ohm on my LG G7.
> Are you looking for portable DAC, or BT DAC or desktop DAC?
> On 11.11 I order iBasso DC01 and Samson QH4 (4 - channel headphone amp). QH4 is a very beautiful AMP and is not expensive. IMHO for A/B comparison is the top choice.
> IBasso has a balanced 2.5mm output and QH4 has 3.5mm unbalanced and two 6.35mm individual inputs for a balanced connection. It is difficult to find a cable 2.5mm to dual 6.35mm so I order the parts to make it one.
> ...


Awesome I've never heard of the QH4 but it does look very nice. At the moment I'm just looking for a cheap but substantial upgrade from my SMSL X4 that I can use with my computers at home or on the go and can drive the 64ohm well. I thought the x4 would do that and maybe it can (specs look too good to be true on smsl site) but still the titanium sounds quite unremarkable at the moment (with any source I have atm) While the response itself looks very nice, it's dull and soft and boring/slow compared to any decent 32ohm bud I have. Interesting because takstar pro80 sounds ok to me but maybe it could be better as well . Same dullness with faaeal rosemary but much more extreme. I really hope I don't have to go balanced to make anything above 32ohm sound decent. I'll save up for something more serious later this year but now I'd rather invest in more building parts like pk2 speakers cables etc. and also I'd like to channel some money into other areas like photography etc.
(edit: I asked iiWWi on youtube about smsl x4 vs the fever dac and he said it would be a very significant upgrade, I think I'll try one for 20usd, not much to loose really.)


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Awesome I've never heard of the QH4 but it does look very nice. At the moment I'm just looking for a cheap but substantial upgrade from my SMSL X4 that I can use with my computers at home or on the go and can drive the 64ohm well. I thought the x4 would do that and maybe it can (specs look too good to be true on smsl site) but still the titanium sounds quite unremarkable at the moment (with any source I have atm) While the response itself looks very nice, it's dull and soft and boring/slow compared to any decent 32ohm bud I have. Interesting because takstar pro80 sounds ok to me but maybe it could be better as well . Same dullness with faaeal rosemary but much more extreme. I really hope I don't have to go balanced to make anything above 32ohm sound decent. I'll save up for something more serious later this year but now I'd rather invest in more building parts like pk2 speakers cables etc. and also I'd like to channel some money into other areas like photography etc.
> (edit: I asked iiWWi on youtube about smsl x4 vs the fever dac and he said it would be a very significant upgrade, I think I'll try one for 20usd, not much to loose really.)


It is upgraded, he says that Fever DAC perform better then Audioquest Dragonfly Black. Also, I think that SMSL IQ is expensive because there is a better solution out there for the same price or less. I don't use BT so much right now. Sometimes I hook up this small BT receiver when I'm doing something on the move, but rarely.


----------



## robar (Feb 12, 2020)

EDIT
@furyossa I've seen in your profile that you built an earbud with the 14.8mm 64ohm N55 speakers. How do you like it? Does it have any significant improvement over the 32ohm PK2 speakers?

Here is the work in progress state of the Faaeal Z-sound mod. The stock sound had very sharp and bright midrange above 2khz, actually there was a very sharp elevation around 2khz. The overall sound was warm, midcentric with v-shaped flavor and sharp/bright. But I saw some qualities in the earbud that motivated me to improve it by mods: 1.quite comfortable and unique shell with standard 14.8mm speaker 2. on sales the whole earbud goes for about 2.75usd with ok cable 3. the speaker is decent (bit reminds me of qian speakers) 4.the sound already had a relaxed spaciousness to it unlike qian39 which is very forward and aggressive

So my goal was to create a smoother more linear sound that is usually present with mx500 shell earbuds. To achieve this I wanted to emulate a typical tuning of mx500 buds - speaker is bare, tuning on vents, stem is open. Also I hope it could provide a good base for future upgrades if it's compatible with generic 14.8mm speakers (I haven't checked yet but seems very probable)

The mods I done so far:
1. removed strain relief - it has big effect on sound for the better or worse depending on the tuning. In my case it was necessary.
2. drilled two 1.5mm holes in the shell, one was a new hole on the side, the other was drilled on top of an existing vent. This was the number 1 reason for improvement.
3. removed horseshoe from speaker - this was the number 2 reason for smoother upper mids. This is not the first time I noticed this, most speakers that has normal thick horseshoe on them tend to be sharp in the 2-3khz area and warm in the low mids. I usually remove these for more linear sound and leave the speaker bare as I don't have very thin white cotton horseshoe yet.
4. added normal tuning foam on the vents - I'm still experimenting with this, but the basic idea works like with mx500 shells, it's just harder to place them inside this shell
5. I put in a "horseshoe middle" just as a test, I'm not sure yet if it does anything but it doesn't bother anything either so I left it in haha

The sound got much better, now it's smooth and natural. I'm still in the tuning process so I just describe the current state. Good midbass, bit warmth but otherwise naturall, with full mids/vocals. Low bass and upper treble are rolled off, but the sound is wide and spacious. Gentle soft treble but good details and separation for ultra budget earbuds. Nice casual/low fatigue character. Could be a nice alternative to stock qian39/69 etc. for example (it's more relaxed and natural, quite atmospheric), for cheaper than those at sale price. A bit like a lite version of B40 with thicker bass/mids. I really like how folk/jazz sound with these, like Wonder from The Long Bellow. With better speakers it would be especially nice, I hope pk2 or similar will snap on these to improve extension, crispiness.  I'll try to tighten up the sound more with different foam configurations and report back with measurements.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 12, 2020)

robar said:


> EDIT
> @furyossa I've seen in your profile that you built an earbud with the 14.8mm 64ohm N55 speakers. How do you like it? Does it have any significant improvement over the 32ohm PK2 speakers?
> 
> Here is the work in progress state of the Faaeal Z-sound mod. The stock sound had very sharp and bright midrange above 2khz, actually there was a very sharp elevation around 2khz. The overall sound was warm, midcentric and sharp/bright. But I saw some qualities in the earbud that motivated me to improve it by mods: 1.quite comfortable and unique shell with standard 14.8mm speaker 2. on sales the whole earbud goes for about 2.75usd with ok cable 3. the speaker is decent (bit reminds me of stock qian69 speaker) 4.the sound already had a relaxed spaciousness to it unlike qian39 which is very forward and aggressive
> ...


Can you show the backside of the driver? Shell is very nice, looks like K's LBB. I wish that Faaeal choose aluminum for the shell.
That 3 holes in front of the neck of the shell will always be blocked by the ear. A totally wrong decision by Faaeal. Long neck act as a vent which is good.
Are you consider to swap cable?
K's LBB is mid-centric with rolled-off bass. 14.8mm N55 same story. I try a couple of shells, change back filters, etc. and nothing. In the end, is good for slipping. I found some JVC shell and I left them like that.




When the drivers have a small opening where pass wire from the voice coil in most cases has rolled-off bass. This driver also has a small hole on the opposite side.




PK's drivers are another level from this. I was listening today my PK1 and PK2. PK2 is a bit aggressive in comparison with balanced sounding PK1.


----------



## robar (Feb 12, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Can you show the backside of the driver? Shell is very nice, looks like K's LBB. I wish that Faaeal choose aluminum for the shell.
> That 3 holes in front of the neck of the shell will always be blocked by the ear. A totally wrong decision by Faaeal. Long neck act as a vent which is good.
> Are you consider to swap cable?
> K's LBB is mid-centric with rolled-off bass. 14.8mm N55 same story. I try a couple of shells, change back filters, etc. and nothing. In the end, is good for slipping. I found some JVC shell and I left them like that.
> ...


Yep it's weird that those vents are below the stem, but I've seen other shells with that placement as well. The sound does change when I switch the foam/tape on them so they seem to do their job to some degree. I might recable it if I find a suitable upgrade for the speaker. But maybe I'll buy more of these z-sounds in the future and leave this alone for reference. At the moment this project is more about bringing out the best of a 2.75usd earbud (on sale, it usually costs double) with no additional costs. I plan to use this one outside, walking around and simple casual background listening so I'm okay with the current setup.

I'll attach pics of the speaker below. What I really hate doing is removing the preinstalled horseshoe from the speakers. It's very messy and I can't clean it up properly, glue residue can stuck into the hole and make channel imbalance etc. Do you have a good technique for this?

My biggest lesson with this mod was that it's really important to manage the ratio between clear and covered openings on the shell. There were times when the measured response was great but in actual listening session the sound was bad due to insufficient or too much venting. Interestingly, my current setup that I showed above is the complete opposite conceptually to the original tuning. Mine has tuning on the vents and free airflow at the speaker and stem. In stock tuning both the speaker and stem was covered and the vents were open.

I'm glad to hear that the PK2's are so nice, I'll definitely buy a set of 5 pairs in the close future, but I think I'll order the fever sabre dac first.

Here's the pic of the Z-sound speaker after I removed the horseshoe from it. (I know looks messy, but the holes are relatively clean and that's the only thing I care about atm haha) I haven't desoldered it yet, this is the factory state apart from the removed foam. It doesn't look like anything special by the outside, most budget earbud speakers have similar "faces". This is another pic I made earlier https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/10605796.jpg


----------



## furyossa (Feb 12, 2020)

Now when you drill this hole you can try also smaller diameter rivets. Before detaching rivet from nail cut it because different lengths also change the sound. With sandpaper sand the cut section. I also use a shrinking tube around the rivets to secure connections between revet and shell. Maybe it can increase sub-buss a little bit.
To remove glue I bought WD-40 but I didn't try jet  I will try to remove the driver from the cover or I'll use acetone.
You will be surprised by PK2. For a cheap driver, this sounds amazing. It is so close to PK1 but 150ohm flagship has better control over low, mid and treble.
Thanks for the image. Now I see the hole right below green glue is not so small. Maybe sub-bass is rolled-off but mid-bass is ok probably.
Take a look at  HE150 driver. BTW I broke one driver when I tried to detach it from the shell. Damn glue. Next mount I will order another pair and Seahf 150ohm




This is the only driver that in a stock form (without any tuning foam except standard horseshoe on the shell) for me personally sounds better than
the Pro version which has a metal shell and better cable. I guess it's the same driver but metal housing and different cover (with metal mesh), in this case, don't help so much.
Sound is so clear and requires a burn-in process. Quality of sub-bass is amazing, mid-bass did not interfere with the mids, neutral treble.
Imaging and soundstage, for this price, are the best that I heard.

Today we talk about SMSL IQ and other DAC's. I stated that IQ is expensive compared to similar devices. Yes, it has great features but most of us will never use them.
At the beginning of the year, Realtek and Qualcomm produced new chips that are really cheap but show good performance on paper.
The competitors also decided to lower prices
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000171303707.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000313950363.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000477286025.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000153118593.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000560966739.html


----------



## Themilkman46290

subwoof3r said:


> All my 26th january orders are still in "Awaiting Shipment" for me


What store?


----------



## subwoof3r

Themilkman46290 said:


> What store?



LuckLZ Audio Store
okcsc Official Store
NovelLife Store

I communicated with the sellers and it confirms that its due to this coronavirus, its been delayed, should be out for shipping in the next few days/week.
Anyway nothing hurry for those orders it can wait


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> Now when you drill this hole you can try also smaller diameter rivets. Before detaching rivet from nail cut it because different lengths also change the sound. With sandpaper sand the cut section. I also use a shrinking tube around the rivets to secure connections between revet and shell. Maybe it can increase sub-buss a little bit.
> To remove glue I bought WD-40 but I didn't try jet  I will try to remove the driver from the cover or I'll use acetone.
> You will be surprised by PK2. For a cheap driver, this sounds amazing. It is so close to PK1 but 150ohm flagship has better control over low, mid and treble.
> Thanks for the image. Now I see the hole right below green glue is not so small. Maybe sub-bass is rolled-off but mid-bass is ok probably.
> ...


Nice, I haven't tried he150 yet but heard good things about it. I got unlunky, the sellers removed the sale price of the sabre usb dac, maybe they heard of the hype and quickly adjusted. Now its 30usd instead of 20. I'm not a big believer in those type c dongles, I've seen a quite bad review here and I don't have type c stuff either so I'd have to use adapters.  https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...asurements-of-hidizs-dac-and-amp-dongle.8707/


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

furyossa said:


> Sorry, I mean it can drive balanced, not sure for unbalanced with 300ohm. But 64ohm for sure. I drive graphene 400ohm on my LG G7.
> Are you looking for portable DAC, or BT DAC or desktop DAC?
> On 11.11 I order iBasso DC01 and Samson QH4 (4 - channel headphone amp). QH4 is a very beautiful AMP and is not expensive. IMHO for A/B comparison is the top choice.
> IBasso has a balanced 2.5mm output and QH4 has 3.5mm unbalanced and two 6.35mm individual inputs for a balanced connection. It is difficult to find a cable 2.5mm to dual 6.35mm so I order the parts to make it one.
> ...


I know you have said you aren’t the best at sound descriptions but how would you compare the 400ohm graphene and the 600ohm beryllium? Do they complement each other? I’ve got the 600ohm driver but really curious about the 400ohm. If it’s worth  owning both I think that will be my next project. I have really fallen for the Smabat st-10 and M1 pro. Listen to them all day at work and depending on mood will switch off. So having similar but different buds is ok to me. Just not near identical.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 14, 2020)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> I know you have said you aren’t the best at sound descriptions but how would you compare the 400ohm graphene and the 600ohm beryllium? Do they complement each other? I’ve got the 600ohm driver but really curious about the 400ohm. If it’s worth  owning both I think that will be my next project. I have really fallen for the Smabat st-10 and M1 pro. Listen to them all day at work and depending on mood will switch off. So having similar but different buds is ok to me. Just not near identical.


You already answer your question by describing ST10 and M1. Same thing with 400ohm and 600ohm.
400ohm version I can drive from LG G7, 600ohm version screams for more power 
Also, you have 2 versions of 400ohm: one with plastic cover and other with a metal mesh cover. NSC Audio store sells both versions.
I prefer plastic cover more because metal mesh cover is slightly bigger and changes a sound in some way.
There is also 500ohm graphene. I think by looking frequency curve it has the same sound signature as beryllium 600ohm
If you look at the frequency curve, 400ohm and 600ohm have very similar f-curve but sounds different.
As you said: *It all depends on the mood*. Every Beryllium driver that I tried, 8mm 32ohm, 15.4mm 130ohm and 600ohm,
are unique and the bass is what sets them apart from other models.
Graphene is something between Titanium and Beryllium, good bass and treble and mids are not harsh and not distant, just balanced.
It's not that cheap, but in my opinion, it totally justifies its price, honestly more than beryllium 600ohm. This is certainly the only DIY driver I want to buy again.
Also because these hight impedance drivers produce more energy I will recommend metal shells
Now it all depends on your taste. If you like the sound of beryllium and you are looking for something
a little different then I think this would be a great addition to your collection.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

Excellent, that is what I needed to know. I personally like the feel of the metal mesh grills but I get what you are saying with the feel. Its funny you and Robar have been talking about those metal shells as I was in the process of ordering those with the graphene drivers. I was actually thinking of getting the FENGRU Diy PT32 graphene headphones and just zap it with my heat gun and toss those drivers and put in the new drivers. I get impatient screwing in the MMCX and carefully pulling the leads through each turn. I do like the new version of the shells you posted though as well. I was thinking if I got those it'd wrap a bit of plumbers tape around the terminal and shove that in. $5 difference really and the leads are already good to go on the PT32 which makes things easier(sure kind of cheating too). 

yuming store has the cheapest price on the 400ohm I can find right now but I got my ER4 clone shells from NSC and they were great.


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Excellent, that is what I needed to know. I personally like the feel of the metal mesh grills but I get what you are saying with the feel. Its funny you and Robar have been talking about those metal shells as I was in the process of ordering those with the graphene drivers. I was actually thinking of getting the FENGRU Diy PT32 graphene headphones and just zap it with my heat gun and toss those drivers and put in the new drivers. I get impatient screwing in the MMCX and carefully pulling the leads through each turn. I do like the new version of the shells you posted though as well. I was thinking if I got those it'd wrap a bit of plumbers tape around the terminal and shove that in. $5 difference really and the leads are already good to go on the PT32 which makes things easier(sure kind of cheating too).
> 
> yuming store has the cheapest price on the 400ohm I can find right now but I got my ER4 clone shells from NSC and they were great.


I got many drivers, shells and other parts from NSC and I didn't have any problems.
I forgot to mention one more thing. After 3-4 revisions of the shell, 400ohm graphene sounds best on "semi-large" cavity size shells like FENGRU Diy PT32 
and a new one that I use for these drivers. If you have a fit issue with 15.4mm driver better skip FENGRU Diy PT32. When you put foam over the plastic cover
you get the wider size.




I plan to talk about the pros and cons of this "angled" shell which I use for Titanium 64ohm and Beryllium 130ohm. 
The biggest disadvantage is that glue must be used for both the driver and the MMCX connector.


----------



## subwoof3r

I found *those 32 ohm drivers* turning to be my current yet best drivers ever. With the right tuning, everything is there. Deep soundstage, very good bass impact with good subbass, clean and neutral (almost full) mids with a very very slight push in the high-mids, and excellent treble with a lot of details. Very transparent and slightly dark, V-shaped signature sound. This is the exact sound signature I enjoy for now.
I finally found my build to be a better overall enjoyment than my much loved previous Smabat ST-10 earbuds.
Incredible stuff. Once things will be settled (coronavirus), I will order one or two more pairs (instead initially the 64 ohm drivers that unfortunately doesn't have much treble and details presence, but that I really enjoy alternatively).


----------



## robar

subwoof3r said:


> I found *those 32 ohm drivers* turning to be my current yet best drivers ever. With the right tuning, everything is there. Deep soundstage, very good bass impact with good subbass, clean and neutral (almost full) mids with a very very slight push in the high-mids, and excellent treble with a lot of details. Very transparent and slightly dark, V-shaped signature sound. This is the exact sound signature I enjoy for now.
> I finally found my build to be a better overall enjoyment than my much loved previous Smabat ST-10 earbuds.
> Incredible stuff. Once things will be settled (coronavirus), I will order one or two more pairs (instead initially the 64 ohm drivers that unfortunately doesn't have much treble and details presence, but that I really enjoy alternatively).


Awesome, I plan to buy 1-2 additional 19-21 bass as well, along with pk2 speakers. I really enjoy it in the qian69 shell but would like to experiment with tuning more. Really cheap as well so no reason to not buy more haha. Did you tune it similarly to the titanium?


----------



## furyossa

subwoof3r said:


> I found *those 32 ohm drivers* turning to be my current yet best drivers ever. With the right tuning, everything is there. Deep soundstage, very good bass impact with good subbass, clean and neutral (almost full) mids with a very very slight push in the high-mids, and excellent treble with a lot of details. Very transparent and slightly dark, V-shaped signature sound. This is the exact sound signature I enjoy for now.
> I finally found my build to be a better overall enjoyment than my much loved previous Smabat ST-10 earbuds.
> Incredible stuff. Once things will be settled (coronavirus), I will order one or two more pairs (instead initially the 64 ohm drivers that unfortunately doesn't have much treble and details presence, but that I really enjoy alternatively).


Then you probably like PK2


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Feb 14, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I got many drivers, shells and other parts from NSC and I didn't have any problems.
> I forgot to mention one more thing. After 3-4 revisions of the shell, 400ohm graphene sounds best on "semi-large" cavity size shells like FENGRU Diy PT32
> and a new one that I use for these drivers. If you have a fit issue with 15.4mm driver better skip FENGRU Diy PT32. When you put foam over the plastic cover
> you get the wider size.
> ...



I went on and looked and the new version of the shells were on sale so I snapped them up for $14.26. Got the silver ones to go with my bronze/gold 600ohm shells. I have no issues with size. I do well with all shell sizes but always have either full foam or donut foams on depending on sound signature(ST-10 full foam M1 Pro Donuts). I've got all 3 shell types you've got above and like the middle green best but all are great. Is that the one you are referring to as semi-large?

www.aliexpress.com/item/4000269094624.html


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> I went on and looked and the new version of the shells were on sale so I snapped them up for $14.26. Got the silver ones to go with my bronze/gold 600ohm shells. I have no issues with size. I do well with all shell sizes but always have either full foam or donut foams on depending on sound signature(ST-10 full foam M1 Pro Donuts). I've got all 3 shell types you've got above and like the middle green best but all are great. Is that the one you are referring to as semi-large?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000269094624.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.45624c4dHJZpyD


Yup. That's the one. I plan to order black and silver to complete the entire collection


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

furyossa said:


> Yup. That's the one. I plan to order black and silver to complete the entire collection


Grab them while they are still on sale! Got to collect them all haha


----------



## furyossa (Feb 14, 2020)

I just finished my hybrid shell model. For this, I used a 300ohm driver N52 magnet, Tingo T200 cable (just temporarily)  and aluminum shell (front part only).
300ohm driver requires swapping of this tick filter because it already has slightly recessed mids. Treble is laid-back. Bass is really energetic, N52 magnet does a good job here.
Without the filter, mids come in front, a little too much for my taste. A thin filter with a pair of punched holes provides solid sound.
I like these aluminum shells because are ultra-light and the driver fits perfectly. The only problem is that they are too shallow (very small cavity size).
The back of the shell is a hand-made wooden piece. By adding this wooden part I got medium cavity size which adds a bit "large room" effect


----------



## subwoof3r

furyossa said:


> Then you probably like PK2


Absolutely not.
I owned original Yuin PK1, PK2, PK3, and some DIY PK2 and PK1 drivers, and many shells modding, none of them can reach the sound level of my current best build with these 15.4mm 32 ohm drivers. They are compketely different sound type, more for pop, with music that don't requires much bass, too much forwarded mids, and generally piercing treble. That is why I abandonned playing with 14.8mm drivers.


----------



## furyossa

subwoof3r said:


> Absolutely not.
> I owned original Yuin PK1, PK2, PK3, and some DIY PK2 and PK1 drivers, and many shells modding, none of them can reach the sound level of my current best build with these 15.4mm 32 ohm drivers. They are compketely different sound type, more for pop, with music that don't requires much bass, too much forwarded mids, and generally piercing treble. That is why I abandonned playing with 14.8mm drivers.


You own all the 14.8mm drivers, now I understand why you ended up modding them. I'm chasing a more balanced sound with good soundstage and imaging. High impedance
drivers in many cases reach that level but there aren't many choices right now. New DIY models are coming up slow compared to branded models. On 11.11 I bought BGVP DX5,
Faael Datura Pro and **** KP120. Material, design, and build are top-level but as far as sound goes I was totally disappointed especially with the DX5. BLON BL-03 and DX5
share similar DLC driver and when I compare them I start to cry   Imagine driving a Bugatti and then going over to drive Citroën 2CV. Same filling


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Feb 14, 2020)

furyossa said:


> You own all the 14.8mm drivers, now I understand why you ended up modding them. I'm chasing a more balanced sound with good soundstage and imaging. High impedance
> drivers in many cases reach that level but there aren't many choices right now. New DIY models are coming up slow compared to branded models. On 11.11 I bought BGVP DX5,
> Faael Datura Pro and **** KP120. Material, design, and build are top-level but as far as sound goes I was totally disappointed especially with the DX5. BLON BL-03 and DX5
> share similar DLC driver and when I compare them I start to cry   Imagine driving a Bugatti and then going over to drive Citroën 2CV. Same filling


You for sure need to look into Smabat then. M1 Pro is like my 5” studio monitors. ST-10 is like adding in my sub and hitting the +2 tweeter room compensation. Not much difference but totally why I use donuts on my M1 Pro and full foam on ST-10. At that point they are really similar but St-10 just has that amazing bass extension. Very balanced and honest sound on both. St-10 is higher resolution overall but M1 pro is not far off. 

I wonder if we will ever see a driver like the 50mm k100 500ohm. I want to make an open back headphone with that driver but at $150ish I could build a lot of really solid buds. So I am fine with my modded planar and beryllium sets for now.


----------



## robar (Feb 14, 2020)

furyossa said:


> You own all the 14.8mm drivers, now I understand why you ended up modding them. I'm chasing a more balanced sound with good soundstage and imaging. High impedance
> drivers in many cases reach that level but there aren't many choices right now. New DIY models are coming up slow compared to branded models. On 11.11 I bought BGVP DX5,
> Faael Datura Pro and **** KP120. Material, design, and build are top-level but as far as sound goes I was totally disappointed especially with the DX5. BLON BL-03 and DX5
> share similar DLC driver and when I compare them I start to cry   Imagine driving a Bugatti and then going over to drive Citroën 2CV. Same filling


If you have a bit of spare money (costs less than 4usd) I really recommend trying those 32ohm out. It produces the closest sound to full size headphones and loudspeakers from my little collection. For me balanced sound include full bodied bass so the instruments have weight and impact not only HF detail. I don't have the very high impedance drivers but I'm pretty sure the price performance ratio is way higher with these 32ohm, and it plays well with any source, doesn't need amp. (I guess a high output impedance amp would only damage the sound of these)
(by the way there is a "balanced" and a "clear" version of this speaker as well, I guess the balanced has less bass and the clear has emphasized upper mids, but this is just a guess. I'll personally stay with the bass version but for other tastes those might be more suitable)

By the way I almost bought the datura pro on lucky bag sale but finally I skipped it because I was afraid that it would sound too midcentric for me, I don't want yet another B40 type sound. How do you like it, how does it compare to diy speakers we use here?

@headenvelopedinsound You build diy headphones as well? Can you recommend resources/tutorials on how to do it, what to buy etc? I'd be interested in modding my takstar pro 80 and oneodio studio pro, then later building something from the ground up. (would really like to build nice sounding portable headphones)


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> You for sure need to look into Smabat then. M1 Pro is like my 5” studio monitors. ST-10 is like adding in my sub and hitting the +2 tweeter room compensation. Not much difference but totally why I use donuts on my M1 Pro and full foam on ST-10. At that point they are really similar but St-10 just has that amazing bass extension. Very balanced and honest sound on both. St-10 is higher resolution overall but M1 pro is not far off.
> 
> I wonder if we will ever see a driver like the 50mm k100 500ohm. I want to make an open back headphone with that driver but at $150ish I could build a lot of really solid buds. So I am fine with my modded planar and beryllium sets for now.


I was thinking of buying an ST-10 , but I know that it's a little big for me and I will have a fit problem.
I hope for some DIY DLC driver. It is very fascinating how BLON managed to achieve "such a sound" with just one driver.
I "hate" Blon because all good earphones sound bad after listening to them 
@HungryPanda confirmed that **** KP110 sounds good with DLC driver.
DQSM Turandot is a really beautiful model and probably the best DLC implementation in earbuds for now but it's pricey.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

robar said:


> If you have a bit of spare money (costs less than 4usd) I really recommend trying those 32ohm out. It produces the closest sound to full size headphones and loudspeakers from my little collection. For me balanced sound include full bodied bass so the instruments have weight and impact not only HF detail. I don't have the very high impedance drivers but I'm pretty sure the price performance ratio is way higher with these 32ohm, and it plays well with any source, doesn't need amp.
> 
> By the way I almost bought the datura pro on lucky bag sale but finally I skipped it because I was afraid that it would sound too midcentric for me, I don't want yet another B40 type sound. How do you like it, how does it compare to diy speakers we use here?
> 
> @headenvelopedinsound You build diy headphones as well? Can you recommend resources/tutorials on how to do it, what to buy etc? I'd be interested in modding my takstar pro 80 and oneodio studio pro, then later building something from the ground up. (would really like to build nice sounding portable headphones)


I’ve never build any headphone from the ground up no but modded quite a bit. Every set is going to be different and depends on what you want to change in the frequency response. Hobby Lobby is a great place to go get supplies. Regular felt, adhesive felt, cotton balls, varying density masking tape and foam. All great to have around. Headphone pads make a very large impact on sound as well.
As far as materials most all the sellers on Ali have headphone drivers and headphone shells of varying types. I’ve kind of been milling over if it’s more cost effective to buy something like the BLON B7 and just ripe out the driver and plunk a new one in and fine tune it from there. All fun stuff.

@furyossa
Yeah the BLON BL03 is a nice set indeed. I own both the silver and gun metal. Every time I put them in I turn in Tycho - Weather and get lost for the duration. Wondering how the BL05 will compare. I can’t bring myself to pay $200+ on an earbud but will for a headphone or iem. But it’s becoming unnecessary to do for IEMs as well with companies like BLON and TinHifi doing amazing things with single drivers. For headroom and sound signature my favorites are still my fearless S6pro. It’s about as studio neutral DF neutral as one can get right now. I will spend $1000+ on a guitar but I can’t do it on headphone type stuff. So I don’t know what I am missing with things like 64 audio etc. I was not that impressed with my Alclair set and customs are a pain in the rear to get fitted for properly. Rabbit trail sorry.


----------



## robar (Feb 14, 2020)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> I’ve never build any headphone from the ground up no but modded quite a bit. Every set is going to be different and depends on what you want to change in the frequency response. Hobby Lobby is a great place to go get supplies. Regular felt, adhesive felt, cotton balls, varying density masking tape and foam. All great to have around. Headphone pads make a very large impact on sound as well.
> As far as materials most all the sellers on Ali have headphone drivers and headphone shells of varying types. I’ve kind of been milling over if it’s more cost effective to buy something like the BLON B7 and just ripe out the driver and plunk a new one in and fine tune it from there. All fun stuff.


Thanks a lot  Yes I want to mod headphones first mainly because the shell from aliexpress are quite expensive I'm not really sure if they are that good or necessary. I don't use my headphones due to the fact that I have problems with seal with takstars (will search for better pads) and also I just like the sound of my earbuds better haha. (especially the 32ohm 19-21 in qian69 shell puts them to shame) First even just tuning the existing hardware would be beneficial (both of them sound quite unnatural to me, oneodio is just tuned badly to my ears, takstar is bright and thin maybe the not so good seal is also a factor) and then I see that stores like nsc, ghxamp sell high quality headphone speakers as well so why not do the same with headphones that I do with earbuds? A really fun project would be to buy some kind of a cheap portable set like sony zx series and mod the hell out of them, upgrade speakers etc. Would be a nice complementary project to earbuds. (I hate wearing in ear buds so those are a no go for me)

@furyossa
Have you tried modding PK type shells? I have a pair of B40's with damaged tuning foams and I wasn't fan of the overly mid dominant tuning anyway so I would like to do something similar to my z-sound mod - drilling new vents and putting regular horseshoe tuning on them, while closing down the long hole on the top.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> If you have a bit of spare money (costs less than 4usd) I really recommend trying those 32ohm out. It produces the closest sound to full size headphones and loudspeakers from my little collection. For me balanced sound include full bodied bass so the instruments have weight and impact not only HF detail. I don't have the very high impedance drivers but I'm pretty sure the price performance ratio is way higher with these 32ohm, and it plays well with any source, doesn't need amp. (I guess a high output impedance amp would only damage the sound of these)
> (by the way there is a "balanced" and a "clear" version of this speaker as well, I guess the balanced has less bass and the clear has emphasized upper mids, but this is just a guess. I'll personally stay with the bass version but for other tastes those might be more suitable)
> 
> Have you tried modding PK type shells? I have a pair of B40's with damaged tuning foams and I wasn't fan of the overly mid dominant tuning anyway so I would like to do something similar to my z-sound mod - drilling new vents and putting regular horseshoe tuning on them, while closing down the long hole on the top.
> ...


I will buy one of these Titanium 32ohm for sure. For me, balanced means specific sound signature where lows, mids and highs are clear and strong enough
but the most important thing is that at different volumes stay consistent without unusual peaks. This is one of the advantages of high impedance drivers, 
clear sound on low and high volume levels.
I noticed that on the LG G7 when using the earbuds with low impedance, QuadDac uses automatically low gain and it sounds like it's off,
so I need to crank up the volume around 80%. With high impedance drivers, QuadDac automatically turn on high gain, and I use the volume in between 40-75%.
Because of that, I bought an Impedance plug for low impedance earbuds to cheat my phone and works fine for now.


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> I will buy one of these Titanium 32ohm for sure. For me, balanced means specific sound signature where lows, mids and highs are clear and strong enough
> but the most important thing is that at different volumes stay consistent without unusual peaks. This is one of the advantages of high impedance drivers,
> clear sound on low and high volume levels.
> I noticed that on the LG G7 when using the earbuds with low impedance, QuadDac uses automatically low gain and it sounds like it's off,
> ...


Well I'm not that experienced as you, so if you happen to try one of these I'll be happy to read your impressions as well!  I don't think those 32ohms are titanium by the way, I think it's just regular stuff material-wise but I haven't disassembled it. This is specifically that 32ohm we like with @subwoof3r https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html


(EDIT) Ohh, by the way happy 100th page folks we did it haha!


----------



## furyossa (Feb 15, 2020)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> I’ve never build any headphone from the ground up no but modded quite a bit. Every set is going to be different and depends on what you want to change in the frequency response. Hobby Lobby is a great place to go get supplies. Regular felt, adhesive felt, cotton balls, varying density masking tape and foam. All great to have around. Headphone pads make a very large impact on sound as well.
> As far as materials most all the sellers on Ali have headphone drivers and headphone shells of varying types. I’ve kind of been milling over if it’s more cost effective to buy something like the BLON B7 and just ripe out the driver and plunk a new one in and fine tune it from there. All fun stuff.
> 
> @furyossa
> Yeah the BLON BL03 is a nice set indeed. I own both the silver and gun metal. Every time I put them in I turn in Tycho - Weather and get lost for the duration. Wondering how the BL05 will compare. I can’t bring myself to pay $200+ on an earbud but will for a headphone or iem. But it’s becoming unnecessary to do for IEMs as well with companies like BLON and TinHifi doing amazing things with single drivers. For headroom and sound signature my favorites are still my fearless S6pro. It’s about as studio neutral DF neutral as one can get right now. I will spend $1000+ on a guitar but I can’t do it on headphone type stuff. So I don’t know what I am missing with things like 64 audio etc. I was not that impressed with my Alclair set and customs are a pain in the rear to get fitted for properly. Rabbit trail sorry.


AliX really has a great selection of 30mm-50mm high-quality drivers for headphones. And yes, tuning the sound of these drivers is very time consuming and you need a measurement gear for testing.
Swapping the earpads is the easy part but tuning the driver housing is the science. Fostex T50RP is one of the most famous models for modding. I have a newer seriesTR90 that has a dynamic driver and not a planar like T50RP. I don't use them as much because they are heavy for the long listening season.
BL05 looks cool and is hybrid, not single DD. I hope that BLON didn't change the sound signature a lot.
Fearless S6pro is probably a "gem" in your collection, and I can only imagine how they sound.
The latest single DD mode, when it was announced late last year, it was said that the price would be around $100 b
but the price is $200 now. I would probably spend that money on a device like DAC or AMP
rather than a earphones (item or earbuds). $1000+ only for a laptop for work and probably not for audio equipment.
But that doesn't mean I'm not interested in expensive models, what I'm most interested in is their technology.
One of these is oBravo lineup.



robar said:


> Have you tried modding PK type shells? I have a pair of B40's with damaged tuning foams and I wasn't fan of the overly mid dominant tuning anyway so I would like to do something similar to my z-sound mod - drilling new vents and putting regular horseshoe tuning on them, while closing down the long hole on the top.


Yes, once but without luck. The shells were damaged and the driver was glued so I threw them out the window.
Anyway, I agree about your modding idea.


robar said:


> Well I'm not that experienced as you, so if you happen to try one of these I'll be happy to read your impressions as well!  I don't think those 32ohms are titanium by the way, I think it's just regular stuff material-wise but I haven't disassembled it. This is specifically that 32ohm we like with @subwoof3r https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html


Well, I'm an architect who works as a game designer. Music is just a hobby, but I like also industrial design.
I can talk about the anatomy and design of earphones is not a problem
I assume that @headenvelopedinsound works in the music industry. He knows to explain the sound in general
and audio equipment.
And about 32ohm ... It seemed to me because they resemble Titanium 64ohm a little because of this black glue.
BTW ... It has a very promising specification. Now you convinced me to buy them


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> (EDIT) Ohh, by the way happy 100th page folks we did it haha!


We talk too much


----------



## robar (Feb 15, 2020)

furyossa said:


> AliX really has a great selection of 30mm-50mm high-quality drivers for headphones. And yes, tuning the sound of these drivers is very time consuming and you need a measurement gear for testing.
> Swapping the earpads is the easy part but tuning the driver housing is the science. Fostex T50RP is one of the most famous models for modding. I have a newer seriesTR90 that has a dynamic driver and not a planar like T50RP. I don't use them as much because they are heavy for the long listening season.
> BL05 looks cool and is hybrid, not single DD. I hope that BLON didn't change the sound signature a lot.
> Fearless S6pro is probably a "gem" in your collection, and I can only imagine how they sound.
> ...


These newer models share the same kind of layout, only the color of the glue blob  dot tells them apart as far as I saw. (edit: actually, not the glue but the color of marking - red is 32ohm bass, darkblue is 64ohm titanium, there are also cyan and other colors for others like the balanced, clear version etc oops, clear sound is also red. So we can only identify it by checking both name/signature and dot color) 
I'll try the B40 mod and share my experience. I plan to do similar adjustments on an ry4x/earbuds anonymous type shell.

Wow cool carreer choice, what kind of game designer are you? I mean video/board game, what field etc. I assumed you must be some sort of designer/engineer based on your detailed blueprint illustrations  I'm a graphic designer (digital focused)
myself so while I'm not well versed in the physical product and game design process but I'm interested in them and appreciate those greatly.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

furyossa said:


> AliX really has a great selection of 30mm-50mm high-quality drivers for headphones. And yes, tuning the sound of these drivers is very time consuming and you need a measurement gear for testing.
> Swapping the earpads is the easy part but tuning the driver housing is the science. Fostex T50RP is one of the most famous models for modding. I have a newer seriesTR90 that has a dynamic driver and not a planar like T50RP. I don't use them as much because they are heavy for the long listening season.
> BL05 looks cool and is hybrid, not single DD. I hope that BLON didn't change the sound signature a lot.
> Fearless S6pro is probably a "gem" in your collection, and I can only imagine how they sound.
> ...


Going to be changing out shells today. Woody to the standard plastic500. And learn a bit of tuning.

I work in the IT field primarily and musician is only serious hobby now. After kids I cut back a lot. My dad is an architect, very cool. Game design has to be an intense fold to be in.


----------



## robar

Has anybody tried those cute little 14.2mm wood shells with these speakers? Might be a nice gift for relatives with small ears  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000272267259.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000273914135.html


headenvelopedinsound said:


> Going to be changing out shells today. Woody to the standard plastic500. And learn a bit of tuning.
> 
> I work in the IT field primarily and musician is only serious hobby now. After kids I cut back a lot. My dad is an architect, very cool. Game design has to be an intense fold to be in.


Nice! Will you swap the shells of your N50 steel mesh speaker build?


----------



## furyossa (Feb 15, 2020)

robar said:


> Has anybody tried those cute little 14.2mm wood shells with these speakers? Might be a nice gift for relatives with small ears  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000272267259.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000273914135.html
> 
> Nice! Will you swap the shells of your N50 steel mesh speaker build?


We're all here because of the hobby. Different opinions, suggestions and tastes in music make this thing interesting and attractive.
If we all shared the same ideas this would not make any sense and it would be boring as if we were talking about our job. No inspiration and no challenge.
That is why this hobby has a very large community.

I was planning to buy these wooden shells and combine them with this driver but didn't find any 14.2mm covers.
I have those drivers that you posted. At first, I thought they were used for NiceHCK EBX but I'd rather say it was EB2.
I use these with this shell, it's good for sleeping buds, which is 14.8mm and again I had to glue them as they are bigger so I suspect they are 14.2mm.
Average Mid-centric sounding driver nothing special here.


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> We're all here for the hobby. Different opinions, suggestions and tastes in music make this thing interesting and attractive.
> If we all shared the same ideas this would not make any sense and it would be boring as if we were talking about our job. No inspiration and no challenge.
> That is why this hobby has a very large community.
> 
> ...


Thanks  I modded the B40, tried out many different things with no noticeable improvement to be honest. I could recreate similar tuning to the original in many different ways, or alternatively make the sound worse  The bass can be improved by damaging the mids, which is not my cup of tea so I stayed with minor adjustments compared to original.  I drilled 3 holes in the end, tried different foam/tape combinations, closing fully or partially the top vent with blu tack etc. The only real advantage of the extra holes is that regular horseshoe tuning can be used instead of the less common rectangle type. Also it gives finer control over the sound but it won't really improve it. I only did one side so far, don't really have the motivation to do the same with the other half. Did not worth the effort so far. I would put the speakers in other type of shell but the diameter is larger than other usual 14.8mm. Maybe I'll try it in the z-sound shell and try the tape method.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> This is specifically that 32ohm we like with @subwoof3r https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html


Honestly, my build with these drivers is my daily drug for now since few days already, I don't want to try any other earbuds at all since, lol


----------



## robar

subwoof3r said:


> Honestly, my build with these drivers is my daily drug for now since few days already, I don't want to try any other earbuds at all since, lol


Awesome, I'll order 1-2 additional pairs soon, maybe along with the 6-hole wooden shell  Have you drilled an extra hole in this like in your titanium build?


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Have you drilled an extra hole in this like in your titanium build?


Here is how it looks for my 32 ohm build  :






And as a bonus picture, I tried  this little thing just tonight, I have to say I much prefer the overall look with these little heatshrinks (properly cutted) around the MMCX PINs  :


Btw, which wires do you guys are using/recommends for interconnects (from MMCX PINs to drivers) ?


----------



## HungryPanda

I bought these as it saves a lot of time and bother

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000090574521.html?


----------



## furyossa (Feb 15, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> Here is how it looks for my 32 ohm build  :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000309106367.html
I think that RY store use same wires https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000541099253.html
For "over-ear" ie short shell version I prefer these MMCX connectors https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32889902202.html
For earbuds thin cable (4core) I bought these male MMCX connectors https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32704947106.html
I planned to make this cable https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32855428262.html


----------



## larry piencenaves

Hey guys, Im new to this thread, just a random question, hoping someone could answer,

Is it ok to use an earbud driver unit on an iem shell?


----------



## GREQ

larry piencenaves said:


> Hey guys, Im new to this thread, just a random question, hoping someone could answer,
> 
> Is it ok to use an earbud driver unit on an iem shell?


If you can actually find one small enough to fit, then sure, why not. 
It'll just need careful tuning like any other driver-transplant project and may not even be able to be tuned the way you want because of it's designed purpose in buds.

I'm pretty sure the IEMs shaped like Sony MDR-7550 and Audio Technica ATH-CKS50 have 'earbud' drivers in them, so it must be possible.


----------



## robar

Yesterday I started modding the RY4C with very promising results. It had very similar problem to the z-sound just much more exaggerated: too few vents which result in a warm and bloated lower half and a sharp overemphasized upper midrange. I drilled a few additional holes, put some scrap tuning foam on them and it sounds much more balanced and clean. I'll put better speakers in it soon and adjust the tuning, then post in more detail 

@subwoof3r Wow thanks the pics greatly appreciated! Those extrs holes are necessary because the mmcx port blocks the airflow in the stem, am I right? (I mean it wouldnt be necessary with regular wired connection)

@larry piencenaves I think it could work if you drill holes in the shell and find compatible diameter for front cover. But I think it would save a lot of headache if you just buy shells for the purpose, the fit and sound would be more optimal.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

Ok guys. I put the 32ohm n50 pet drivers in standard plastic mx500 shell and immediately put them back in the wood shells. I realized I really like them in those shells and the comfort factor was a very big part of that. Not much tuning require.

now onto 600ohm Beryllium. In the shell i am using currently there is a small peak at 2khz that I want to shift up to 3/3.5khz. I am familiar with changing reasonate peaks in full size headphones but not earbuds. Any advice? I also think these shells may be to large for my ears in general, which is a first. So I went and ordered another set of those new medium shells we’ve all been discussing. Also just changed colors up and got the red and blue.

so any assistance with open back vent shells shifting peak up not down would be great.


----------



## robar (Feb 16, 2020)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Ok guys. I put the 32ohm n50 pet drivers in standard plastic mx500 shell and immediately put them back in the wood shells. I realized I really like them in those shells and the comfort factor was a very big part of that. Not much tuning require.
> 
> now onto 600ohm Beryllium. In the shell i am using currently there is a small peak at 2khz that I want to shift up to 3/3.5khz. I am familiar with changing reasonate peaks in full size headphones but not earbuds. Any advice? I also think these shells may be to large for my ears in general, which is a first. So I went and ordered another set of those new medium shells we’ve all been discussing. Also just changed colors up and got the red and blue.
> 
> so any assistance with open back vent shells shifting peak up not down would be great.


I dont have experience with those metal open back shells but usually the 2khz peak happens when either there are insufficient vents on the shell or the speaker has too thick foam applied to it directly. (often both factors are present at the same time)
My recent mods are aimed to fix the same issue in various poorly vented shells. You could also try to change the speaker foam to thinner variant, but other might have other ideas. I'll try that wood shell with my n50 probably, sounds like it works well in that


----------



## furyossa (Feb 16, 2020)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Ok guys. I put the 32ohm n50 pet drivers in standard plastic mx500 shell and immediately put them back in the wood shells. I realized I really like them in those shells and the comfort factor was a very big part of that. Not much tuning require.
> 
> now onto 600ohm Beryllium. In the shell i am using currently there is a small peak at 2khz that I want to shift up to 3/3.5khz. I am familiar with changing reasonate peaks in full size headphones but not earbuds. Any advice? I also think these shells may be to large for my ears in general, which is a first. So I went and ordered another set of those new medium shells we’ve all been discussing. Also just changed colors up and got the red and blue.
> 
> so any assistance with open back vent shells shifting peak up not down would be great.


This is probably not an accurate frequency graph but you can see where is the peak for my 600ohn driver in a blue metal shell.





You can try to tune it by adding foam or wool pieces at the back, from the inside in front of a mesh.
I can't remember if I was putting anything at all.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Feb 17, 2020)

furyossa said:


> This is probably not an accurate frequency graph but you can see where is the peak for my 600ohn driver in a blue metal shell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ok awesome thanks guys. I will just wait for the new shells to come in. Then tune from there. I spent more time with the current shells today and they are just not doing it for me. Fit is just off. So I’ll leave them in there to keep them safe for now then tune later.

What graphing tool do you use and mic? I think you mentioned it awhile ago but can’t recall. As far as graphing goes I know what mine does and look like and only use for personal really. But I think if people have the same mic and source then I trust it. Look at bggr and crinicle. They use the same stuff and have roughly the same graphs of each pair.

@robar yeah I like the 32ohm in that wooden shell quite a bit. Fit is a big reason and they sound nice in there.
What are those titanium drivers you like so well? Can you link them? I am wondering if the 32 or 64ohm would be better to try.


----------



## robar (Feb 16, 2020)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Wow I’d be
> 
> 
> ok awesome thanks guys. I will just wait for the new shells to come in. Then tune from there. I spent more time with the current shells today and they are just not doing it for me. Fit is just off. So I’ll leave them in there to keep them safe for now then tune later.
> ...


It's not titanium, but this is the best 32ohm speaker I heard so far https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html
Bass is vastly superior to the N50, crispy but well balanced mids and treble. N50 has really nice treble and soundstage but it's quite midcentric compared to this. I call this speaker  19-21 bass because of the stats. This is the same speaker that subwoof3r likes a lot after trying it out following my recommendation. I use mine in a qian69 shell but I plan to buy more and put these into everything haha. Puts emx500 speaker to shame, for almost same money it has significantly deeper bass and more transparent sound


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Wow I’d be
> 
> 
> ok awesome thanks guys. I will just wait for the new shells to come in. Then tune from there. I spent more time with the current shells today and they are just not doing it for me. Fit is just off. So I’ll leave them in there to keep them safe for now then tune later.
> ...


We use the same mic but probably different sound card. Also, I don't do measurements on my phone, only on PC. For PC some external audion interface
with volume control is required for accurate measurement. I use LG G7 and on android, I didn't find the app which can be directly compared to AudioTool on iPhone.
Bggr and crinicle use AudioTool but their coupler is one of the best used professionally to measure IEM's and is quite expensive.
Anyway ... can you post the link of your current wooden shels?


robar said:


> It's not titanium, but this is the best 32ohm speaker I heard so far https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html
> Bass is vastly superior to the N50, crispy but well balanced mids and treble. N50 has really nice treble and soundstage but it's quite midcentric compared to this. I call this speaker  19-21 bass because of the stats. This is the same speaker that subwoof3r likes a lot after trying it out following my recommendation. I use mine in a qian69 shell but I plan to buy more and put these into everything haha. Puts emx500 speaker to shame, for almost same money it has significantly deeper bass and more transparent sound


PK emx500 and MX500 emx500, neglecting size, are quite different in sound. I broke my Pk version, which for me sounds more fun than MX500 version.
You two have advertised 32ohm driver a lot. The seller should really give you ten pairs for free.


----------



## robar (Feb 16, 2020)

furyossa said:


> We use the same mic but probably different sound card. Also, I don't do measurements on my phone, only on PC. For PC some external audion interface
> with volume control is required for accurate measurement. I use LG G7 and on android, I didn't find the app which can be directly compared to AudioTool on iPhone.
> Bggr and crinicle use AudioTool but their coupler is one of the best used professionally to measure IEM's and is quite expensive.
> Anyway ... can you post the link of your current wooden shels?
> ...


Haha yes I'd appreciate a bunch of those. I was speaking about the emx500 speaker itself, not any particular earbud. I never had the original emx500 I just bought the same speakers it uses. It's the most popular 32ohm diy speaker at the moment, many people built custom buds with them. You can buy it at jietu for 3usd/pair or buy a pack of 5 at cklewis for example. It was the price performance champion before the new speakers come out few month ago like the 19-21 and n50. I built quite a few versions with it and it performs similarly to the ry4s ue speaker. (bit less bass more detail on mid-hi range) I've just built a bud with the modded ry4c shells and emx500 speakers. It sounds quite good, smooth and not very far from neutral with a bit soft bass, nice full vocals. It will serve well as a street/podcast bud. But its inferior to the 19-21 build in every way.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 17, 2020)

robar said:


> Haha yes I'd appreciate a bunch of those. I was speaking about the emx500 speaker itself, not any particular earbud. I never had the original emx500 I just bought the same speakers it uses. It's the most popular 32ohm diy speaker at the moment, many people built custom buds with them. You can buy it at jietu for 3usd/pair or buy a pack of 5 at cklewis for example. It was the price performance champion before the new speakers come out few month ago like the 19-21 and n50. I built quite a few versions with it and it performs similarly to the ry4s ue speaker. (bit less bass more detail on mid-hi range) I've just built a bud with the modded ry4c shells and emx500 speakers. It sounds quite good, smooth and not very far from neutral with a bit soft bass, nice full vocals. It will serve well as a street/podcast bud. But its inferior to the 19-21 build in every way.


Original 14.8mm EMX500 it is quite similar in terms of sound with PK2.  Price-performance champion in my collection is RY4S Plus (silver with MMCX). For $7.99 with all of this and good sound and don't forget super glue that it uses (melting point probably supernova heat)


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Feb 19, 2020)

Yes the 32ohm N50 PET drivers are a nice fit in these shells. Neutral sound overall, bass is present not overdone. Treble is present but not sharp. Mids are there and overall mellow. Vocals are clear but again do lean on the mellow side. I wouldn't call it warm though. Overall a chillout bud that you forget are in and just can listen to for longer session due to no over emphasized areas. Resolution is good but not amazing. Overall a nice piece to have around for under $10 total(cable not included in that). If I was to do it again I'd just get the hard wired version as no need to run balanced with a 32ohm driver.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000477388117.html?spm=2114.13010708.0.0.3a994c4dhv4eTQ

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33027995148.html?spm=2114.13010708.0.0.3a994c4d71fM0q

EDIT:
Just did some measurements of these and wanted to share. I'll try and get my 600ohm measured as well as control set for reference.

These are two takes on measurements. The first is the common at eardrum measurement and second is more easily interpreted to standard raw graph measurements.







My measurements are not really accurate in lower registers but overall you can see bass, mids, and highs well. This shows a very neutral presentation. The 3khz area is not as elevated as something like an Etymotic. Which is what I was calling a mellow play back rather than warm. It's a slightly lower 6db elevation vs 10db elevation from 1khz to 3khz. Otherwise very much in the same ballpark.


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> no need to run balanced with a 32ohm driver


I like this NiceHCK gray cable. I bought 2.5mm balanced version.
If 32ohm driver has the good potential I use balanced. The main benefit here is it can clear the sound a bit.
Of course for high impedance drivers in 99% cases, I use balanced (more power).
A wooden shell that I really wish to try is YINMAN 150ohm. There are many old 150ohm drivers who really deserve attention.
Shells are a very simple, beautiful hang-made minimalistic design. And then YINMAN makes an upgraded version.
Pure originality, classic design, where every element of wood is perfectly implemented.
I really don't know what they sound like, but I think the overall design and originality justify the price.


----------



## robar (Feb 17, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Original 14.8mm EMX500 it is quite similar in terms of sound with PK2.  Price-performance champion in my collection is RY4S Plus (silver with MMCX). For $7.99 with all of this and good sound and don't forget super glue that it uses (melting point probably supernova heat)


What's the deal with this pk emx500? Is this some kind of diy guy's crazy idea? I've never seen one but saw it mentioned in the past. What's the point of forcing a mediocre 15.4mm speaker into a 14.8mm shell, which is not an amazing acoustic design anyways? I don't see the point personally.
I tried 3 earbuds from RY: ry4x ry4c ry4s UE. I found their tuning to be lackluster, wasn't a fan of any of those. (ry4sue could have been really nice with a bit more bass and bit less sharp treble) I opened up all of them and the glue is definitely very strong. I could only open up ry4c by drilling a hole first and pushing out the speaker through it by a screwdriver


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> What's the deal with this pk emx500? Is this some kind of diy guy's crazy idea? I've never seen one but saw it mentioned in the past. What's the point of forcing a mediocre 15.4mm speaker into a 14.8mm shell, which is not an amazing acoustic design anyways? I don't see the point personally.
> I tried 3 earbuds from RY: ry4x ry4c ry4s UE. I found their tuning to be lackluster, wasn't a fan of any of those. I opened up all of them and the glue is definitely very strong. I could only open up ry4c by drilling a hole first and pushing out the speaker through it by a screwdriver


Original EMX500 is a 14.8mm driver in PK shell and it is no longer on Ali. 15.4mm version has totally different tuning.
Also, RY4S Plus is an upgraded version of the original RY4S driver. For me is superior driver then 15.4mm EMX500


----------



## robar (Feb 17, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Original EMX500 is a 14.8mm driver in PK shell and it is no longer on Ali. 15.4mm version has totally different tuning.
> Also, RY4S Plus is an upgraded version of the original RY4S driver. For me is superior driver then 15.4mm EMX500


It's really hard for me to believe, as the name emx500 comes from the specific earbud that started the earbud boom few years ago and still sold on ali. Unsurprisingly the name emx500 comes from the fact that it uses the mx500 shell. I don't think it's physically possible to fit that speaker into any kind of 14.8mm compatible front cover.
The basic 4-5usd RY4S has different speakers than the UE version, I saw a picture of disassembled basic/UE ry4s speakers side by side and they are different. I believe basic ry4s has the same speakers as ry4x, which I own and experimented with (looked the same and said to be the same by a friend who own both and disassembled them). It's a very basic and cheap speaker in my opinion nowhere near the level of ry4s UE speaker which looks the same as emx500 speaker and sounds very similar to emx500 speaker in identical tuning. (I would say 90% matching) I don't think the ry4s plus has entirely different speaker, it just uses the one from the UE version not the basic version, but I can't know for sure. But it doesn't really matter, when for less than 4usd we can buy better than any of this to be honest
Edit: here's a pic of ry4x/ry4c speakers versus ry4s UE speakers. i believe basic ry4s model uses the first one not the second, but I haven't disassembled it myself. However it's more than probable, my friends photo of the basic ry4s looked exactly like the first one here.


----------



## larry piencenaves

Quick question guys.. what glue to use in making earbuds? Prefer if you would also state the brand, thanks.


----------



## subwoof3r (Feb 18, 2020)

I finished converting one of my old Blox YIN/TM9 cable into MMCX. I'm pleased with both sonical result and look 
Currently using it with my 32ohm build at work. I really enjoy the softness if this cable.
But at the end I just realized that I inversed the red mark (R) with the white (L), lol. Anyway nothing major as its just for me ^^







larry piencenaves said:


> Quick question guys.. what glue to use in making earbuds? Prefer if you would also state the brand, thanks.


I'm using E8000 glue to set drivers into shells correctly (easy to open remove if needed after). For something more strong I was using cyanolite in the past but not recommended as sometimes it makes white areas on the edges of the shells that is difficult to remove. I thing best way is using epoxy glue for better results (I still need to find where to buy).


----------



## furyossa (Feb 18, 2020)

larry piencenaves said:


> Quick question guys.. what glue to use in making earbuds? Prefer if you would also state the brand, thanks.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32968841075.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000481108662.html
Can be found in any cell phone service, they use it often to glue components


----------



## larry piencenaves

Hello again guys another quick question, have u guys tried putting a 15.4mm speaker unit on a 14.8mm pk shell? Will it fit or nah?


----------



## robar

larry piencenaves said:


> Hello again guys another quick question, have u guys tried putting a 15.4mm speaker unit on a 14.8mm pk shell? Will it fit or nah?


The diameter of the front cover is significantly larger than the edge of pk shell. You could do it probably with wrapping double sided tape between the two. But it will be messy and not very nice. I don't exactly see the point, there are very comfortable 15.4mm shells that would work better both mechanically and sonically.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> The diameter of the front cover is significantly larger than the edge of pk shell. You could do it probably with wrapping double sided tape between the two. But it will be messy and not very nice. I don't exactly see the point, there are very comfortable 15.4mm shells that would work better both mechanically and sonically.


I'll just add this one: Plus you have almost 80% more choices for 15.4mm shells than 14.8mm or 14.2mm shells.


----------



## larry piencenaves (Feb 18, 2020)

robar said:


> The diameter of the front cover is significantly larger than the edge of pk shell. You could do it probably with wrapping double sided tape between the two. But it will be messy and not very nice. I don't exactly see the point, there are very comfortable 15.4mm shells that would work better both mechanically and sonically.





furyossa said:


> I'll just add this one: Plus you have almost 80% more choices for 15.4mm shells than 14.8mm or 14.2mm shells.





What I mean is that the only 15.4mm in the equation is the driver only, the front cover and shell would be 14.8mm, I was hoping if i could snug a 15.4mm driver in a 14.8mm front cover im assuming it has a few margins to fit the extra .6mm.


----------



## furyossa

larry piencenaves said:


> What I mean is that the only 15.4mm in the equation is the driver only, the front cover and shell would be 14.8mm, I was hoping if i could snug a 15.4mm driver in a 14.8mm front cover im assuming it has a few margins to fit the extra .6mm.


Nope. You will probably damage the driver when you try to connect cover with shell


----------



## robar (Feb 18, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Nope. You will probably damage the driver when you try to connect cover with shell


Agreed.  @larry piencenaves  The opening of the front covers are exactly tailored to the specific speaker diameter. The metal part of the speaker usually snaps into a groove inside the front cover. Unfortunately there is no way you can fit a 15.4mm speaker into a 14.8mm cover without ruining the compatibility with 14.8mm in the first place.

By the way @furyossa I ordered the "Fever dac" with es9018k2m chip yesterday because the price went back to normal, and it has already shipped since then. I'm excited to hear what can 22usd do in 2020. Hopefully it'll be a significant upgrade over my smsl x4


----------



## subwoof3r

New MMCX MX500 shell prototype made tonight 







What do you guys think about it?

I like the way it's even shorter (mmcx fit more into the shell). Marks will be with blue/red heatshrinks around the PINs (like my previous photo, in black). Just need to order those colored heatshrinks


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Agreed.  @larry piencenaves  The opening of the front covers are exactly tailored to the specific speaker diameter. The metal part of the speaker usually snaps into a groove inside the front cover. Unfortunately there is no way you can fit a 15.4mm speaker into a 14.8mm cover without ruining the compatibility with 14.8mm in the first place.
> 
> By the way @furyossa I ordered the "Fever dac" with es9018k2m chip yesterday because the price went back to normal, and it has already shipped since then. I'm excited to hear what can 22usd do in 2020. Hopefully it'll be a significant upgrade over my smsl x4


I hope it justifies the price. It is really chip and it would be a shame not to try it. 
This year I expect to see more amazing stuff at affordable prices, right now coronavirus slowed everyone down a lot.
BTW ... I received today something cool  I will post the picture tomorrow.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 18, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> New MMCX MX500 shell prototype made tonight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup. That's it. 
In general, the metal shell of male MMCX is too big and heavy for earbuds and str8 up wearing.
The last time I cut the shell I aimed for the cut section to be the same length as an MMCX shell. So when viewed from distance, everything looks like a whole shell
Your length is pretty much the same.
Also, I remove the bulge from the backside of the shell with P180 or P220 sandpaper and then polish it with water sandpaper P2000
This type of MMCX is lighter and thinner (3mm diameter) and would fit in nicely, but I need to find the way how to press this metal tube over the connector
without a crimping tool which is too expensive. I'll try to find this plier tool in the local hardware store.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Yup. That's it.
> In general, the metal shell of male MMCX is too big and heavy for earbuds and str8 up wearing.
> The last time I cut the shell I aimed for the cut section to be the same length as an MMCX shell. So when viewed from distance, everything looks like a whole shell
> Your length is pretty much the same.
> ...



Why bother with the tube? I'd try soldering directly to the base/crimp area.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Why bother with the tube? I'd try soldering directly to the base/crimp area.


I don't like how shrink tubing gets crowded over the part where it is soldered


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> I don't like how shrink tubing gets crowded over the part where it is soldered



I see. 

It may or may not work well, as its designed to be used with co-axial cable and not just two separate wires.


----------



## silverfishla

larry piencenaves said:


> Quick question guys.. what glue to use in making earbuds? Prefer if you would also state the brand, thanks.


I use Pliobond.  It goes on liquid and thin.  Becomes tacky in a few minutes then you can mate two pieces together easily.  Cleans up easily.


----------



## subwoof3r (Feb 19, 2020)

My yet 32 ohm favorite drivers seems to be very fragile, I just recently at work accidentaly dropped the R side within 15cm (approx) to my desk and the sound was weird (volume lowered and almost no bass). Had a little scary moment, lol.
Fixed the issue with the "sucking" solution which fortunately worked perfectly in my case. So beware to not have normal/huge shocks with them


----------



## furyossa

"sucking" solution?


----------



## subwoof3r

furyossa said:


> "sucking" solution?


Yup, blowing/sucking gently from the front plastic of the drivers generally helps a lot for various cases (such as eliminating dirt, fixing issue like mine, rattling issues, etc) 
Beware to suck/blow gently when you do this, as it could easily damage the coil and permanent damage the driver itself.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 19, 2020)

"Such a lovely couple".  My iFi came yesterday





The last mount I bought Samson QH4 on sale. I tried to connect it with iBasso DC01 and it didn't work as I expected.
DC01 uses 2.5mm out and Qh4 has dual 6.35mm balanced input and 3.5mm unbalanced input.
Interferences are present and I think that is the reason 2.5mm balanced out. 2.5mm plug does not have a separate ground sleeve like 3.5mm and 4.4mm plug.
I tried to find a solution for 2.5mm to dual 6.35mm adapter cable but without luck.
In the meantime, I ran into iFi Zen DAC with a few cool features. This DAC has RCA unbalanced and 4.4mm Pentaconn balanced output from the back.
I plan to build 4.4mm to dual 6.35mm balanced cable but for now, I'll go with 3.5mm to dual RCA.
At the front, we have two buttons, "Power Match" as a Gain Boost for high impedance headphones and "True Bass" as a bass boost.
After volume knob, there is 6.35mm unbalanced and 4.4mm balanced output.
These two devices make an amazing setup for A/B comparison between earphones (headphones). It also supports MQA.
I have used this AMP-i4 (2 x 4 channel amp) before with Sonata HD dongle and it works ok. I changed plastic with aluminum knobs and add 6.35mm to 3.5mm adapters. 
This allowed me to put on eight pairs of earphones and is very practical for the burn-in process




If I manage to connect this one with iFi Zen DAC then I can test 12 pairs at the same time, which will be totally insane.  And I not counting two more on the front side of DAC


----------



## furyossa

subwoof3r said:


> Yup, blowing/sucking gently from the front plastic of the drivers generally helps a lot for various cases (such as eliminating dirt, fixing issue like mine, rattling issues, etc)
> Beware to suck/blow gently when you do this, as it could easily damage the coil and permanent damage the driver itself.


Now you've almost taken all the tests for 32ohm driver. 
- Sound analysis 
- The military standard rating for durability 
It still needs to be examined water and dust resistance protection 

In my case driver that has "suffered the most abuse" is 300ohm N52. 
I solder it safely ten times (heat resistance), dropped it 2-3 times (drop resistance), stood on the table and "breathed dust" for a month (dust resistance)
A water test will probably be " the end" of this driver or maybe not, who knows


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> "Such a lovely couple".  My iFi came yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why not make an adapter, sounds fairly simple, buy a 2.5mm jack and a couple 6.35mm connector, if you can diy some buds, I am sure you can do it!!!


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Why not make an adapter, sounds fairly simple, buy a 2.5mm jack and a couple 6.35mm connector, if you can diy some buds, I am sure you can do it!!!


I bought 2.5mm plug, braided 8-core cable (easier to solder) and pair of 6.35mm plugs. I need only 4.4mm for the second cable. 
I'm not entirely sure if this is the right way to do cables and which version to use (with the ground or without ground). 
I put together this little booklet in the attachment. Do you have any advice?


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> I bought 2.5mm plug, braided 8-core cable (easier to solder) and pair of 6.35mm plugs. I need only 4.4mm for the second cable.
> I'm not entirely sure if this is the right way to do cables and which version to use (with the ground or without ground).
> I put together this little booklet in the attachment. Do you have any advice?


Got me confused, it has a ground, I always thought the - was a ground, well there are a lot of adapters out there, I recommend googling it or asking in the diy cable thread, they have helped me a lot in the past


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Got me confused, it has a ground, I always thought the - was a ground, well there are a lot of adapters out there, I recommend googling it or asking in the diy cable thread, they have helped me a lot in the past


Already do that but no answer  . Also, I posted on "superbestaudiofriends" forum and some YT channels.
It's not easy how it looks. 2.5mm has R+,R-,L+,L-. For headphones and earphones are not a problem but when I tried 2.5mm to dual RCA adapter cable 
with iBasso DC01 interference appears. Also, with 2.5mm male to 3.5mm female adapter cable + when I connect with AUX (3.5mm to 3.5mm), 
again interference. Maybe this can't be done with a 2.5mm plug and 2.5mm output is only for headphones end earphones.
Probably it's not designed to connect DAC and AMP


----------



## SupperTime

Where or how to buy or make the cheapest custom mold Ear plugs?


----------



## Themilkman46290

SupperTime said:


> Where or how to buy or make the cheapest custom mold Ear plugs?


I think you need the diy iems thread, this is earbud thread not inner earbud thread, but I do know mold your own iems is a lot of work, not very cheap, it will end up costing around 150-200 bucks


----------



## subwoof3r

Made a little E8000 glue interesting experiment, I tried to use this glue to fix MMCX to plastic shells (yes, again) but this time I wait several days before trying to connect it a MMCX cable, and I was pleased to see that it didn't popped out (unlike my first try but I remember I only wait 2 hours). So if you guys don't have anything else than E8000, just wait couple of days (something like 4/5 days minimum) before trying to use and it should do the trick.
I will report if something happen


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Feb 20, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> I think you need the diy iems thread, this is earbud thread not inner earbud thread, but I do know mold your own iems is a lot of work, not very cheap, it will end up costing around 150-200 bucks





SupperTime said:


> Where or how to buy or make the cheapest custom mold Ear plugs?




For starters I'd just do the ER4S clone to get a feel for it. Very easy to do and sound is excellent. Cost is around $50 not including cable.

Would be cool to try Radians wrapped around the ER4S clone shell. Could get that custom fit and ety sound. But yeah this is earbuds DIY....


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> For starters I'd just do the ER4S clone to get a feel for it. Very easy to do and sound is excellent. Cost is around $50 not including cable.
> 
> Would be cool to try Radians wrapped around the ER4S clone shell. Could get that custom fit and ety sound. But yeah this is earbuds DIY....


I agree, this is the earbuds DIY, but I will love to see any modification of commercial model or a custom build whether it be "flat-head" or "nozzle" type (no IEM's).


----------



## robar

subwoof3r said:


> My yet 32 ohm favorite drivers seems to be very fragile, I just recently at work accidentaly dropped the R side within 15cm (approx) to my desk and the sound was weird (volume lowered and almost no bass). Had a little scary moment, lol.
> Fixed the issue with the "sucking" solution which fortunately worked perfectly in my case. So beware to not have normal/huge shocks with them


Interesting, I have never experienced anything like this, but I already dropped most of my buds accidentally haha. But I received multiple faulty speakers, however with those mostly the treble section was muffled and soft.

I ordered 2 additional pairs of 19-21 32ohm speaker, to play with tuning and make enough buds to last me a long time. The snapping is getting loose on the qian69 (it was already loose with most other speakers in the first place), creating channel imbalance, I guess the plastic wore down a bit because of the many adjustments I made. Hopefully the new speakers will solve this. I hope this concludes my earphone purchases for a while haha (maybe I'll try some cables or shells but with strong moderation)

My biggest problem right now is cracks on front covers, many speakers of mine started to develop this symptom especially after those basic mx500 shells which has quite tight snapping. It's very frustrating because it makes channel imbalance again, because the cracked covers start to get loose and leak sound.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 20, 2020)

Ok. The next topic/project was inspired by MSUR headphones (N350 and N650).
BTW ... I recently bought theirs earbud MSUR C210 (8mm beryllium driver) and I will talk about these another time.
These two headphone models have one thing in common: Beryllium driver.
I read somewhere that a cheaper model N350 sounds better than the N650 model.
Reportedly, according to the comments, the problem is a different size of the wooden cavity.
This comment gave me the idea to try how individual drivers behave in shells of different sizes.
For this project, I decided to use three metal cases of different shapes and cavity sizes with three 15.4mm 130ohm beryllium drivers.
These are the selected candidates





This topic will be divided into several parts, probably for each size, and the story will be based on:
- pros and cons of shells itself
- design and comfort
- basic modding
- the effect of cavity size on sound
For the last item, I will try to explain in brief the sound difference.
In order to better explain this, I need a few reference songs ie the songs that you guys use to test separately bass, vocals, instruments, treble, soundstage.
So this is all about the intro.


----------



## subwoof3r (Feb 21, 2020)

robar said:


> My biggest problem right now is cracks on front covers, many speakers of mine started to develop this symptom especially after those basic mx500 shells which has quite tight snapping. It's very frustrating because it makes channel imbalance again, because the cracked covers start to get loose and leak sound.


I remarked the same in my builds after trying to fine tune/mod them. Generally when the speakers came brand new its perfect for the first snap, but after few dismantling I hear also this kind of crackling, this is annoying especially when I set my earbuds into my ears. Ithink the plastic covers are a bit more fragile than we could expect.
There is only one solution to fix that : using E8000 glue 
But for now, even if I'm happy with my current builds, I still don't want to glue them. I will wait a bit more before this final step.
Anyway, I don't believe it cause much leaking, overall I never remarked any difference.


----------



## robar

subwoof3r said:


> I remarked the same in my builds after trying to fine tune/mod them. Generally when the speakers came brand new its perfect for the first snap, but after few dismantling I hear also this kind of crackling, this is annoying especially when I set my earbuds into my ears. Ithink the plastic covers are a bit more fragile than we could expect.
> There is only one solution to fix that : using E8000 glue
> But for now, even if I'm happy with my current builds, I still don't want to glue them. I will wait a bit more before this final step.
> Anyway, I don't believe it cause much leaking, overall I never remarked any difference.


You know because I measure all the time, I notice these differences way before I can spot them by hearing. But now there are some cases where its quitr audible as well. The effect on sound is similar to a misplaced tuning foam, the bass/mids become thicker and the upper mids darker and grainier. I'll definitely buy the glue


----------



## SupperTime

How do I make this top to my dac


----------



## DBaldock9

SupperTime said:


> How do I make this top to my dac



It would certainly help to have a CNC Milling Machine. Or, possibly a Dremel Tool with the drill press accessory (if it can be locked in the down location).


----------



## Themilkman46290

So I have been tuning and playing with a few drivers and buds for a little while and I must say that the 500ohm and 600ohm are much harder to tune then the 130ohm and 400ohm, and shells make a huge difference, so far the 3 hole wooden shell with the holes drilled out a bit with a 400ohm graphene have come out far ahead of my other combos, in second place is the Frankenstein yurbud shells I salvaged and the 130ohm drivers 

With the 600ohm driver, I wasn't able to get the same amount of details 
I kept trying to tune the treble up a bit but I noticed it sounded similar to me seahf 400ohm drivers, I tryed turning up the equalizer at 16khz but there was no result, so it seems the 600ohms beryllium rolls off at 15khz, have you guys noticed this? I haven't checked the 500ohm driver because I am waiting for a new cable 


Either way, the 400ohm sound very very similar to my hifiman he4xx where the 130ohm sound closer to some ath m50


----------



## furyossa (Feb 23, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> So I have been tuning and playing with a few drivers and buds for a little while and I must say that the 500ohm and 600ohm are much harder to tune then the 130ohm and 400ohm, and shells make a huge difference, so far the 3 hole wooden shell with the holes drilled out a bit with a 400ohm graphene have come out far ahead of my other combos, in second place is the Frankenstein yurbud shells I salvaged and the 130ohm drivers
> 
> With the 600ohm driver, I wasn't able to get the same amount of details
> I kept trying to tune the treble up a bit but I noticed it sounded similar to me seahf 400ohm drivers, I tryed turning up the equalizer at 16khz but there was no result, so it seems the 600ohms beryllium rolls off at 15khz, have you guys noticed this? I haven't checked the 500ohm driver because I am waiting for a new cable
> ...


400ohm graphene driver has more detail in mids and treble than 600ohm beryllium. Have you tried any silver cable with it?
I don't have 500ohm graphene but I saw that it has an identical frequency graph as 600ohm driver. Also, I noticed that beryllium works better in "medium cavity size" shells.
BTW I really like your builds. Spring that you use for the cable is nice addition to massive plug. Which shell did you "salvaged" for 600ohm driver?   
Big plugs have always fascinated me. These are my favorite right now


----------



## furyossa (Feb 23, 2020)

My latest builds for this week.
This one is my 2nd "over-ear" mod for MX500 shell but without MMCX sockets. For the driver, I used the Tingo TC200 model and for cable Tingo TC400 white "super-soft" cable. If anyone finds a link for this cable alone please share it.
Small diameter rivets are used for the vents and big ones for ends. With the help of sandpaper I made them match the cross-section of the shell.








Another pair is PK2 in metal (aluminum shell). The only metal shell I found that fits perfectly with the 14.8mm driver is from VJJB C1.
This shell has 5 vents only at the front so for the first test I drill back vent hole (2mm), added metal mesh inside to cover it and replace the cable with MMCX.
After a while, I start to lose signal because of the small space in the area where is MMCX placed so the wires began to break apart.
For the current version, I removed mmcx sockets and enlarged the back hole for the rivet.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Another pair is PK2 in metal (aluminum shell). The only metal shell I found that fits perfectly with the 14.8mm driver is from VJJB C1.
> This shell has 5 vents only at the front so for the first test I drill back vent hole (2mm), added metal mesh inside to cover it and replace the cable with MMCX.
> After a while, I start to lose signal because of the small space in the area where is MMCX placed so the wires began to break apart.
> For the current version, I removed mmcx sockets and enlarged the back hole for the rivet.



I'm always on the lookout for good 14.8mm driver shells. 

Was the mmcx at the back causing the issue? Or at the stem where the wires are again?


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Feb 24, 2020)

furyossa said:


> 400ohm graphene driver has more detail in mids and treble than 600ohm beryllium. Have you tried any silver cable with it?
> I don't have 500ohm graphene but I saw that it has an identical frequency graph as 600ohm driver. Also, I noticed that beryllium works better in "medium cavity size" shells.
> BTW I really like your builds. Spring that you use for the cable is nice addition to massive plug. Which shell did you "salvaged" for 600ohm driver?
> Big plugs have always fascinated me. These are my favorite right now


Thanks, the 600ohm are on the bottom, it was a pair of broken fengru mmcx metal diy pt32, nsc has the same shell for around 12 bucks for 2 sets, the black shells for the 130ohm build are some "sports bud" called yurbuds.

I love fat Jack's, that gold yarbo one you've got there is sexy ass hell too!


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> I'm always on the lookout for good 14.8mm driver shells.
> 
> Was the mmcx at the back causing the issue? Or at the stem where the wires are again?


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 23, 2020)

furyossa said:


>



I see. Did you try using the M4 flush style MMCX which are shorter, instead of the M3 longer ones?

Left = M3 style, right M4 style


Or instead of rubber as the neck, using plastic or nylon?


----------



## furyossa (Feb 23, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Thanks, the 600ohm are on the bottom, it was a pair of broken fengru mmcx metal shell drivers, nsc has the same shell for around 12 bucks for 2 sets, the black shells for the 130ohm build are some "sports bud" called yurbuds.
> 
> I love fat Jack's, that gold yarbo one you've got there is sexy ass hell too!


This is the link for gold YARBO. Also, I use this model but is short when you use it with a mobile phone with a protective case.
You are probably familiar with DUNU "Hulk" cable and modular plugs system. Now just imagine what kind of cable can by build with this combo
- modular plugs
- mini XLR for Y-spliter
- 2Pin, MMCX, TRS
This will be "All in ONE "End Game "DREAM" cable. It can be used for headphones, IEM's, earbuds, as an adapter cable. The sky is the limit 
You mentioned earlier Seahf 400ohm. I plan on ordering 150ohm version.
Can you compare it with any earbuds or describe a sound signature?


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> I see. Did you try using the M4 flush style MMCX which are shorter, instead of the M3 longer ones?
> 
> Left = M3 style, right M4 style
> 
> ...


I used M3 because the hole is already same diameter as M3.
The second solution suggestion is for M4 type.
For "neck" U need stable connection and not elastic. The aluminum ring or tube is better for sure.
You can cut off tube part of the larger rivet


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Feb 24, 2020)

furyossa said:


> This is the link for gold YARBO. Also, I use this model but is short when you use it with a mobile phone with a protective case.
> You are probably familiar with DUNU "Hulk" cable and modular plugs system. Now just imagine what kind of cable can by build with this combo
> - modular plugs
> - mini XLR for Y-spliter
> ...



Thanks for the link, might order it next time I need one, looks nice, been thinking about a nice gold and silver plated cable, that would look perfect on it.
Well, it's hard to compare how it was originally, but it had a bit of sub bass, really clear and emotional mids and the highs fell off around 15khz, really good for jazz, slightly bright, very good positioning and seperation

Right now I have it tuned to sound relaxed, warm, juicy (for bus rides)

Its sad it doesn't go above 15khz, then it might have been perfect
So far only the 400ohm graphene is at that point
Ordered the titanium 64 ohm and couple of 32ohm n52 drivers, curious about the 300ohm 9u white drivers, has anyone tried them?


I was looking at that connector kit but it's wayyyy too expensive for my budget, but I was thinking of using a mini 4 point XLR as a y splitter then making different bottom ends in 2.5mm balanced and 3.5mm single


----------



## furyossa (Feb 24, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Thanks for the link, might order it next time I need one, looks nice, been thinking about a nice gold and silver plated cable, that would look perfect on it.
> Well, it's hard to compare how it was originally, but it had a bit of sub bass, really clear and emotional mids and the highs fell off around 15khz, really good for jazz, slightly bright, very good positioning and seperation
> 
> Right now I have it tuned to sound relaxed, warm, juicy (for bus rides)
> ...


In a previous post, I asked about Seahf f400s. I'm curious about the 150ohm version because of 400ohm not sales anymore. Can you describe the sound signature and compare it with any DIY model?
These kits were on the sale around 12$ per piece. The black material is metal, not plastic. I like this one with rhodium. It looks f....  amazing.
About 300ohm driver. Of course, Chitty's store and their highly detailed description of the specification. I wonder why no one has ordered a pair yet
First of all the mark 9U refers to packaging tape imported from Japan which is placed over the diaphragm as a film. Nothing special here.
I already have this one and it's exactly the same driver but with a black cover. It has a 12U mark which is also not important  .
What is important is that the NSC Audio Store sells them cheaper 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15467898


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Feb 24, 2020)

furyossa said:


> In a previous post, I asked about Seahf f400s. I'm curious about the 150ohm version because of 400ohm not sales anymore. Can you describe the sound signature and compare it with any DIY model?
> These kits were on the sale around 12$ per piece. The black material is metal, not plastic. I like this one with rhodium. It looks f....  amazing.
> About 300ohm driver. Of course, Chitty's store and their highly detailed description of the specification. I wonder why no one has ordered a pair yet
> First of all the mark 9U refers to packaging tape imported from Japan which is placed over the diaphragm as a film. Nothing special here.
> ...


Sorry I thought I had written about the seahf 400ohm, well they sound ver similar to the 600ohm, rolled off top and from my memory in the original tuning, they were mainly mid focused, with fairly good bass and slightly rolled off but audible sub bass. But I have since retuned them, they are now more warm neutral with a sub bass bump, they are slightly more bassy and a bit less high mids then the 600ohm beryllium, in general fairly similar but the 600ohm has better Soundstage.
Nsc has been my go to place for 400ohm,500ohm,600ohm drivers, good customer service, they sent replacement drivers quick without any fuss
Jietu seems to have best price on the 130ohm beryllium
I like your use of the rivets, think I might try that, the springs I used are from a local  3d printer supply store, 6mm OD 0.8 WD 5mm ID
How would you rate the 300ohm against others?


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Sorry I thought I had written about the seahf 400ohm, well they sound ver similar to the 600ohm, rolled off top and from my memory in the original tuning, they were mainly mid focused, with fairly good bass and slightly rolled off but audible sub bass. But I have since retuned them, they are now more warm neutral with a sub bass bump, they are slightly more bassy and a bit less high mids then the 600ohm beryllium, in general fairly similar but the 600ohm has better Soundstage.
> Nsc has been my go to place for 400ohm,500ohm,600ohm drivers, good customer service, they sent replacement drivers quick without any fuss
> Jietu seems to have best price on the 130ohm beryllium
> I like your use of the rivets, think I might try that, the springs I used are from a local  3d printer supply store, 6mm OD 0.8 WD 5mm ID
> How would you rate the 300ohm against others?


Yup. At first, I thought Jietu selling some fake model but it turns out to be the same driver that everyone sells twice as expensive.
So I bought 3 pairs. I will post soon how this driver behaves in different metal cases.

With stock black filter, 300ohm has good bass but everything else is recessed. By removing the filter mids and treble come in front.
Sub-bass is slightly rolled off. I added a thin white filter and punch 2 holes on a filter to balance the bass and midrange. 
It's a warm-sounding driver and N52 magnet is really there. The bass guitar and drums sound very good (Lenny Kravitz – Black and White America album). 
This driver is not on the same level as 400ohm and 600ohm, but it is interesting and unique in its own way.


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Feb 27, 2020)

I reshelled my 600ohm, took out of metal fengru pt32 shells and into the mx500 shells, 

I had to drill the wire hole out for the 8 braid cable that was too thick,drilled again for a bass hole, sounds better then I had originally tuned it but now the subb bass isnt as deep and midbass has a little bump, highs still roll off but not too bad, in general, if your not planning on tuning, the 500-600ohm drivers are great, but the 130ohm and 400ohm have more highs and deeper lows if you tune them

I ordered n52 32ohm bass and 64ohm ti composite driver, curious what are all you guys using? Does anything beat the 400ohm?
Or the 130ohm?

Has anyone tried the 64ohm 14.8mm ti driver? I've got some really crazy metal shells I salvaged from some strange earbud/iem from a company called "shike" and they happen to be 14.8mm.


----------



## robar (Feb 27, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> I reshelled my 600ohm, took out of metal fengru pt32 shells and into the mx500 shells,
> I had to drill the wire hole out for the 8 braid cable that was too thick,drilled again for a bass hole, sounds better then I had originally tuned it but now the subb bass isnt as deep and midbass has a little bump, highs still roll off but not too bad, in general, if your not planning on tuning, the 500-600ohm drivers are great, but the 130ohm and 400ohm have more highs and deeper lows if you tune them
> 
> I ordered n52 32ohm bass and 64ohm ti composite driver, curious what are all you guys using? Does anything beat the 400ohm?
> ...


My favorite is the 15.4mm 19-21khz 32ohm heavy bass speaker from nsc, we discussed a lot about it with subwoof3r. The N50 is not as good in my opinion but quite alright, it's softer and more midcentric with less details, good for acoustic instruments and vocals. 15.4mm 64ohm titanium is nice as well. I asked about the 14.8mm 64 titanium before, people said its very midcentric and not better than the cheap pk2. Have you ordered the more expensive 15.4mm 64 titanium which goes for about 14usd? I think nobody tried that before, keep us updated on how it sounds.  My guess is that its a more midcentric speaker than my current favorites and slightly overpriced, we will find out eventually whats the truth


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Does anything beat the 400ohm? Or the 130ohm?


Nope. I don't know about 15.4mm 19-21khz 32ohm but 15.4mm 64 titanium definitely not. Skip 64ohm 14.8mm N55.
Yesterday I was reading about FinalAudio A8000 and this part caught my attention:
_"Until now, we have employed modification of the amplitude frequency response, known as tuning, to modify the sound of our earphones, but because it cannot make a great change to time response, it became difficult to achieve transparent sound through tuning. This time, with the aim of achieving transparent sound for earphones, final has developed its own proprietary Perceptual Transparency Measurement (PTM) evaluation methodology. As a result of evaluation and improvement of interrelations between principal components analyized by the results of subjective evaluation and data analysis of impulse response that could not be gleaned from frequency response in the past, an ideal diaphragm material that is extremely light and possessing high sound speed comprised of ultra-thin Beryllium foil (Truly Pure Beryllium Diaphragm) has been adopted for the A8000."_
So we can modify shell in many different ways but clarity and transparency will always depend on the quality of the driver diaphragm itself.
This Truly Beryllium diaphragm behaves differently from the Beryllium coated diaphragm. Mids and especially treble are more prominent than bass.


----------



## Themilkman46290

robar said:


> My favorite is the 15.4mm 19-21khz 32ohm heavy bass speaker from nsc, we discussed a lot about it with subwoof3r. The N50 is not as good in my opinion but quite alright, it's softer and more midcentric with less details, good for acoustic instruments and vocals. 15.4mm 64ohm titanium is nice as well. I asked about the 14.8mm 64 titanium before, people said its very midcentric and not better than the cheap pk2. Have you ordered the more expensive 15.4mm 64 titanium which goes for about 14usd? I think nobody tried that before, keep us updated on how it sounds.  My guess is that its a more midcentric speaker than my current favorites and slightly overpriced, we will find out eventually whats the truth


actually I wanted to order the 130ohm from jietu store but they are not taking orders so I decided to try the 64ohm ti for $12.90 but it seems the price fluctuates


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Nope. I don't know about 15.4mm 19-21khz 32ohm but 15.4mm 64 titanium definitely not. Skip 64ohm 14.8mm N55.
> Yesterday I was reading about FinalAudio A8000 and this part caught my attention:
> _"Until now, we have employed modification of the amplitude frequency response, known as tuning, to modify the sound of our earphones, but because it cannot make a great change to time response, it became difficult to achieve transparent sound through tuning. This time, with the aim of achieving transparent sound for earphones, final has developed its own proprietary Perceptual Transparency Measurement (PTM) evaluation methodology. As a result of evaluation and improvement of interrelations between principal components analyized by the results of subjective evaluation and data analysis of impulse response that could not be gleaned from frequency response in the past, an ideal diaphragm material that is extremely light and possessing high sound speed comprised of ultra-thin Beryllium foil (Truly Pure Beryllium Diaphragm) has been adopted for the A8000."_
> So we can modify shell in many different ways but clarity and transparency will always depend on the quality of the driver diaphragm itself.
> This Truly Beryllium diaphragm behaves differently from the Beryllium coated diaphragm. Mids and especially treble are more prominent than bass.


Thanks for telling me, guess I will wait and give the 150ohm pk1 driver a shot


----------



## robar (Feb 27, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> actually I wanted to order the 130ohm from jietu store but they are not taking orders so I decided to try the 64ohm ti for $12.90 but it seems the price fluctuates


Yep this is the one I was thinking about, if you get it pls share your impressions I'm interested! Yes jietu disabled its inventory for now, I wrote them last week and they said that we have to wait about 2 weeks before they're able to ship. Hopefully the situation hasnt got worse since then. From nsc I ordered two more 19-21 speakers a few days ago plus a hard case for extra protection (I asked them to put the speakers inside for extra protection) and they already shipped fortunately.
For me the 64 titanium (6-7usd) is pretty underwhelming at the moment hopefully it will get better with better amp/source but right now it is dull and soft compared to the 19-21. (so its hard for me to recommend it atm, I hoped it will work with normal consumer devices well but I'm not impressed apart from bass depth)


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Thanks for telling me, guess I will wait and give the 150ohm pk1 driver a shot


Which one "transparent" or "red coated"?


----------



## furyossa (Feb 27, 2020)

robar said:


> Yep this is the one I was thinking about, if you get it pls share your impressions I'm interested! Yes jietu disabled its inventory for now, I wrote them last week and they said that we have to wait about 2 weeks before they're able to ship. Hopefully the situation hasnt got worse since then. From nsc I ordered two more 19-21 speakers a few days ago plus a hard case for extra protection (I asked them to put the speakers inside for extra protection) and they already shipped fortunately.
> For me the 64 titanium (6-7usd) is pretty underwhelming at the moment hopefully it will get better with better amp/source but right now it is dull and soft compared to the 19-21. (so its hard for me to recommend it atm, I hoped it will work with normal consumer devices well but I'm not impressed apart from bass depth)


Are you saw this "bad boy". This is the first portable dac/amp that supports both SE & balanced output and MQA. Also, it has very good output power in comparison to the dongle version.
If you use TIDLE streaming service then this is a great thing.


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Which one "transparent" or "red coated"?


Don't know yet, I've read the red is better but I don't really know


----------



## robar (Feb 27, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Are you saw this "bad boy". This is the first portable dac/amp that supports both SE & balanced output and MQA. Also, it has very good output power in comparison to the dongle version.
> If you use TIDLE streaming service then this is a great thing.


Looks interesting! I don't use tidal or any fancy audio tech at the moment, but might try them in the future. It will be interesting to see if the sabre dongle I ordered brings the 64ohm to life. It really should, though my current devices drive the takstar pro 80 decently so I'm not sure if the 64ohm will change that much. I'm excited to hear the overall sq improvement over my existing gear. Of course I plan to buy something more expensive in the future like BTR5 or something but I really hope this fever dac will be enough for stuff below 100ohm


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Don't know yet, I've read the red is better but I don't really know


You asked earlier "_Does anything beat the 400ohm? Or the 130ohm?_ ". I just listen and compare "RED" with 400ohm. 400ohm has more specious sound and sub-bass extension
but "RED" produces more energetic sound. Bass is strong and doesn't "cast a shadow" over mids which are not as distant as the 400ohm. Treble is not rolled off.
Of course, the shell is very different for both. For "RED" I use DOCOMO shell and Fucurawa "red" cable and this combo sounds better than my previous mod with
metal VJJB C1 shell and NiceHCK 8core "brown" cooper cable.
"RED" is clearly a more refined version then PK2 and I think that has more bass then PK1 transparent version.


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> You asked earlier "_Does anything beat the 400ohm? Or the 130ohm?_ ". I just listen and compare "RED" with 400ohm. 400ohm has more specious sound and sub-bass extension
> but "RED" produces more energetic sound. Bass is strong and doesn't "cast a shadow" over mids which are not as distant as the 400ohm. Treble is not rolled off.
> Of course, the shell is very different for both. For "RED" I use DOCOMO shell and Fucurawa "red" cable and this combo sounds better than my previous mod with
> metal VJJB C1 shell and NiceHCK 8core "brown" cooper cable.
> "RED" is clearly a more refined version then PK2 and I think that has more bass then PK1 transparent version.


Well thanks for the little review, I guess I will get the red film version, sounds about what I am looking for


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Well thanks for the little review, I guess I will get the red film version, sounds about what I am looking for


In the DIY 14.8mm category, "RED" is a flagship for now. This A8 also has good specs. Chitty and DIY Tribe sales this for 18$. 
If anyone has this one please share some impressions


----------



## DBaldock9

furyossa said:


> In the DIY 14.8mm category, "RED" is a flagship for now. This A8 also has good specs. Chitty and DIY Tribe sales this for 18$.
> If anyone has this one please share some impressions



In my bin of earbud drivers for future use, I've got a set of the red PK1, but I'm not sure whether I want to use a plain plastic PK shell, or a fancier shell of some sort.


----------



## furyossa

DBaldock9 said:


> In my bin of earbud drivers for future use, I've got a set of the red PK1, but I'm not sure whether I want to use a plain plastic PK shell, or a fancier shell of some sort.


That's a very tricky question. The plastic shell is the safe choice for "RED". If I notice any distortion or congested sound
I will try to find a better shell aka "fancier". For now, there are not many choices


----------



## furyossa (Feb 27, 2020)

Last night some of us on _*Earbuds Roundup *_thread, we talk about HE 150, Ty Hi Z 150ohm, Seahf 150ohm, YINMAN 150ohm and how these old drivers 150ohm sounds amazing,
but again, each has its own specific character that defines the originality of these models.
Also, I notice that @DBaldock9 favorite earbuds has 150ohm (_*Blur hALF/hALF 150Ω*_)  
For me, 150ohm impedance represents a "sweet spot" between low and high impedance drivers.
I just wonder if any of the drivers (mentioned models) can be found as DIY drivers on Ali or at least similar?


----------



## HungryPanda

I made a few earbuds with these

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1666800924.html


----------



## furyossa

HungryPanda said:


> I made a few earbuds with these
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1666800924.html


I'm open to any suggestions. It looks "old" which is very promising in this case. Thanks.
Any impression about the sound or comparison with "famous 150ohm" models?


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> In the DIY 14.8mm category, "RED" is a flagship for now. This A8 also has good specs. Chitty and DIY Tribe sales this for 18$.
> If anyone has this one please share some impressions



Wish I had seen those earlier and knew the shells I had to mod were for 15mm drivers. They were listed for 14.8mm, so I made them work with my pk1 red & pk2 drivers.




And these shells are now unavailable.


----------



## DBaldock9

furyossa said:


> Last night some of us on _*Earbuds Roundup *_thread, we talk about HE 150, Ty Hi Z 150ohm, Seahf 150ohm, YINMAN 150ohm and how these old drivers 150ohm sounds amazing,
> but again, each has its own specific character that defines the originality of these models.
> Also, I notice that @DBaldock9 favorite earbuds has 150ohm (_*Blur hALF/hALF 150Ω*_)
> For me, 150ohm impedance represents a "sweet spot" between low and high impedance drivers.
> I just wonder if any of the drivers (mentioned models) can be found as DIY drivers on Ali or at least similar?



I really do like the Blur earbuds, as well as my higher impedance (600, 500, & 300-Ohm) and lower impedance (64, 45, & 32-Ohm) earbuds.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Does anyone have a way to tune down the high mids? Or turn up sub bass?


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

Hey all wanted to share this find. I confirmed with seller they are indeed 2 pair. If you send message they will send two different colors as well. Feeling like they may be offloading the old version. Get the whole collection of colors for $25 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000173977762.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.315e3c00llHzr8&mp=1


----------



## robar (Mar 3, 2020)

New speaker at NSC, the Steel mesh 32ohm Titanium! 19-21khz I was interested in, of course without the greedy overpricing of other sellers. It'd be great if someone could give it a go, I'm exercising a bit restraint at the moment haha Sadly there is no info about the tuning, so maybe we should ask the seller if this is a bass or mid centric version.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000741710087.html


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> New speaker at NSC, the Steel mesh 32ohm Titanium! 19-21khz I was interested in, of course without the greedy overpricing of other sellers. It'd be great if someone could give it a go, I'm exercising a bit restraint at the moment haha Sadly there is no info about the tuning, so maybe we should ask the seller if this is a bass or mid centric version.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000741710087.html


It seems to me that the same hardware was used where only the diaphragm was replaced. Metal back looks the same, so venting is similar to regular 32ohm 19-21khz.
I expect cleaner sound and probably a greater quantity of low, mid and high frequencies.
Also, there is a new shell made of cooper https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000746563900.html. 
So this shell is "resonance free" and heavy at the same time. Interesting "horn" shape, it reminds a bit of an old gramophone.
This shape certainly provides excellent airflow. I wonder which driver would fit better here, mid-centric or bass-dominant.


----------



## robar (Mar 5, 2020)

furyossa said:


> It seems to me that the same hardware was used where only the diaphragm was replaced. Metal back looks the same, so venting is similar to regular 32ohm 19-21khz.
> I expect cleaner sound and probably a greater quantity of low, mid and high frequencies.
> Also, there is a new shell made of cooper https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000746563900.html.
> So this shell is "resonance free" and heavy at the same time. Interesting "horn" shape, it reminds a bit of an old gramophone.
> This shape certainly provides excellent airflow. I wonder which driver would fit better here, mid-centric or bass-dominant.


Yep I've seen that shell as well, looks weird but maybe performs well  I asked the seller about the character of the new titanium steel mesh, will post if I get an answer. (the  regular 19-21 32ohm has 3 different versions - heavy bass, balanced, clear - so it's not that obvious which tuning this new one has)

I received the ES9018K2M "Fever" dac today.  My first impression is very positive, it is a significant upgrade over my SMSL X4. It has a more mature, fuller, more powerful and focused sound. The X4 is a bit all over the place, thin and "rubbery" compared to this. The difference gets bigger with higher impedance earbuds. The 64ohm titanium and the Rosemary 150ohm sound much better with this new dac. The Rosemary was totally unusable before and now it's quite enjoyable, the improvement is vast. My only minor problem at the moment is that it gets loud very fast (about 3-6 out of 100 is my listening level on windows via usb3 port) and I have to buy an extension cord to use it comfortably with my pc (because it's shaped as a pendrive).  I'll test it for a few days and write more detailed review if somebody's interested. For 22usd it's a killer deal.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Yep I've seen that shell as well, looks weird but maybe performs well  I asked the seller about the character of the new titanium steel mesh, will post if I get an answer. (the  regular 19-21 32ohm has 3 different versions - heavy bass, balanced, clear - so it's not that obvious which tuning this new one has)
> 
> I received the ES9018K2M "Fever" dac today.  My first impression is very positive, it is a significant upgrade over my SMSL X4. It has a more mature, fuller, more powerful and focused sound. The X4 is a bit all over the place, thin and "rubbery" compared to this. The difference gets bigger with higher impedance earbuds. The 64ohm titanium and the Rosemary 150ohm sound much better with this new dac. The Rosemary was totally unusable before and now it's quite enjoyable, the improvement is vast. My only minor problem at the moment is that it gets loud very fast (about 3-6 out of 100 is my listening level on windows via usb3 port) and I have to buy an extension cord to use it comfortably with my pc (because it's shaped as a pendrive).  I'll test it for a few days and write more detailed review if somebody's interested. For 22usd it's a killer deal.


I'm glad that you liked. Look like chip piece of gear but specs don't lie. 
I honestly never doubted it sounded bad. In terms of sound, it is certainly similar to SMSL IQ with more power. 
The big price difference is because of a famous brand, QC, features that IQ offers and lower THD but for average users these features are irrelevant


----------



## assassin10000

Built another MMCX bud today, I've been slacking on it.

Ordered these 14.mm 32ohm drivers Xmas eve from Chitty on AE. Balanced sound according to them.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32230887418.html

I've had a pair of PK shells that came with my PK1 (red) 150ohm drivers and a pair of MMCX sockets... that I ordered August last year.

Cut the shells down with a small hobby hacksaw (6-8" blade) and smoothed down with a fine file then edges with a diamond file. Used a 2.5mm drill bit and M3 x .5mm tap... ordered September last year (after I had the MMCX connectors to measure).




Came out pretty good. Sounded relatively balanced for the 10 seconds I listened without foams, before putting them on burn-in.


----------



## Themilkman46290

These 32ohm n52 "strong bass" drivers I got fron nsc sound almost as good as my 130ohm and 400ohm, very easy to tune, pretty fun and enjoyable sound, has pretty good sub bass, but the 400ohm are still the best so far, pretty upset with the 600ohm, someone on here said they are better with factory tuning and I have to say I agree, if the highs weren't rolled off so early they could be awesome but what good is all that bass without the highs, they sound too dark, have very little details
Still waiting on the $15  64 ohm titanium driver, seems its all ready in the country so it won't be long, I will compare them to the others I have and let you guys know how I feel


----------



## Merlin-PT (May 18, 2020)

400ohm are also my favorites, I've even opened a few holes (partial removing the driver tuning paper) for extra detail. (Also using a plastic mx500 shell).
I want another pair of 400ohm, can anyone tell what's better with theses drivers, metal mesh grills or mx500 plastic mesh grills?

I bought 100 units of this tunning cotton/paper, I asked for 40xY2+30xY3+10xY4+10xY5+10xY6 thickness, they sent me like 140 units :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32934747488.html
Using a thinner filter in the 600ohm drivers will give more detail at the trade off of less bass control.
I've a mx500 shell, closed with mmcx connectors, but I'm still looking for a better shell and tune for this 600 ohms drivers.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Merlin-PT said:


> 400ohm are also my favorites, I've even opened a few holes (partial removing the tuning paper) for extra detail (in a plastic mx500 shell).
> I want another pair of 400ohm and wanted to know what's better with theses drivers, metal mesh grills or mx500 plastic mesh grills?
> 
> I bought 100 units of this tunning cotton/paper with all Y2Y3Y4Y5Y6 thickness, they sent me like 140 units :
> ...


Yeah, it's like no matter what, you either get good details and almost no bass, or sloppy bass and no details, I have used around 30 something tuning papers and foam on them in different combos but it's always one or the other with the 600ohm, in mx500, wood shells or metal shells
I give up on it, it's good driver for people that don't hear past 15khz 

Too bad too, now I am waiting for my replacement 500ohm driver, really hoping it's not the same as the 600ohm, just ordered the metal mesh 400ohm from yuming

Does anyone know where to source more high impedance drivers? It would be nice to find some 200ohm or 350ohm..


----------



## robar (Mar 6, 2020)

NSC store answered me about the new steelmesh titanium 32ohm speaker and they said it's closer to the "low frequency" tuning, which is really good news at least for me 



Themilkman46290 said:


> Yeah, it's like no matter what, you either get good details and almost no bass, or sloppy bass and no details, I have used around 30 something tuning papers and foam on them in different combos but it's always one or the other with the 600ohm, in mx500, wood shells or metal shells
> I give up on it, it's good driver for people that don't hear past 15khz
> 
> Too bad too, now I am waiting for my replacement 500ohm driver, really hoping it's not the same as the 600ohm, just ordered the metal mesh 400ohm from yuming
> ...


If you hear very poor bass or treble, it's very likely that your gear can't drive the speaker probably. I experienced something similar with for example Faaeal Rosemary 150ohm.. I received my new dac  yesterday and the Rosemary came alive, the bass and treble extension become much greater with more dynamics and details. It was very dull, soft (from like 6-7khz upwards) and midcentric before with my previous weak source, I almost sold it but now I really enjoy its sound.
Btw about the N52, did you write about the cheap N52 that goes for about 4usd? I had one of those as well, but to be honest I found it very average, sound is decent but nothing special, about on the level of better 10usd earbuds. I even prefer the emx500 speaker to it, because it has better bass extension with similar level of detail. The similarly priced 32ohm 19-21 heavy bass speaker is miles ahead, in a total different league in my opinion.


----------



## Lex11180 (Mar 6, 2020)

I'm very curious about building my own earbud as I'm looking for a cheap option that has very good bass / deep sub bass. I'm currently using an RY4S Plus MMCX and using that as my baseline for comparison. I'd love to get more sub bass than that currently offers, but even if it's just more midbass I'd love to try it out. I'll be using it powered off KZ APTX HD cable or 4 core silver plated cable attached to either my Scarlet Solo or Pocophone F1.

Would this be the most recommended driver? What sort of housing should I be looking to pair with it? Where can I find these foam cutout pieces that people use, and which ones should I use? Preferably would love an MMCX setup to pair with my cables but if there's a cabled shell better recommended then could go with that and just recable it.

The two ideas I've had so far is buying a Fengru DIY MMCX unit and swapping the drivers, or buying this Sandalwood shell as I'm getting a bit tired of the MX500 housings and fancy a change, but no idea what would be better for what I want.

Thanks!


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yeah, it's like no matter what, you either get good details and almost no bass, or sloppy bass and no details, I have used around 30 something tuning papers and foam on them in different combos but it's always one or the other with the 600ohm, in mx500, wood shells or metal shells
> I give up on it, it's good driver for people that don't hear past 15khz
> 
> Too bad too, now I am waiting for my replacement 500ohm driver, really hoping it's not the same as the 600ohm, just ordered the metal mesh 400ohm from yuming
> ...


I agree, Diy 600ohm is a "tricky little person" driver  I love it but I hate it at the same time. Definitely is not intended for every music genre. Diy 400ohm covers most of the genres I listen to.


----------



## robar (Mar 6, 2020)

Lex11180 said:


> I'm very curious about building my own earbud as I'm looking for a cheap option that has very good bass / deep sub bass. I'm currently using an RY4S Plus MMCX and using that as my baseline for comparison. I'd love to get more sub bass than that currently offers, but even if it's just more midbass I'd love to try it out. I'll be using it powered off KZ APTX HD cable or 4 core silver plated cable attached to either my Scarlet Solo or Pocophone F1.
> 
> Would this be the most recommended driver? What sort of housing should I be looking to pair with it? Where can I find these foam cutout pieces that people use, and which ones should I use? Preferably would love an MMCX setup to pair with my cables but if there's a cabled shell better recommended then could go with that and just recable it.
> 
> ...


Yes I'd definitely recommend that speaker.  It would be a good idea to buy two pairs so you can compare different tunings/shells side by side. For first build I'd recommend the mx500 shell, others might be able to help you with finding the alternative. I tried many shells but from a pure sound perspective mx500 is still the winner for me, though I haven't tried the more pricy metal shells. For buying tuning foam you can find many options at nsc store, but I haven't tried those personally yet. You can get the basic regular horseshoe with the set of mx500 shells from cklewis for example. It's a good idea to have some spare new mx500 shells anyway because as you progress through builds there will be leftover speakers that you can just put into those and gift away or make identical builds for comparison/backup. I haven't tried the thin white horseshoes  because they are very pricey lol. I only had RY4S UE version and the speaker above is definitely better in terms of bass extension and details. If you plan to build mmcx buds I'd recommend buying a cheap set of drills around 0.7-1.5mm


----------



## Themilkman46290

robar said:


> NSC store answered me about the new steelmesh titanium 32ohm speaker and they said it's closer to the "low frequency" tuning, which is really good news at least for me
> 
> 
> If you hear very poor bass or treble, it's very likely that your gear can't drive the speaker probably. I experienced something similar with for example Faaeal Rosemary 150ohm.. I received my new dac  yesterday and the Rosemary came alive, the bass and treble extension become much greater with more dynamics and details. It was very dull, soft (from like 6-7khz upwards) and midcentric before with my previous weak source, I almost sold it but now I really enjoy its sound.
> Btw about the N52, did you write about the cheap N52 that goes for about 4usd? I had one of those as well, but to be honest I found it very average, sound is decent but nothing special, about on the level of better 10usd earbuds. I even prefer the emx500 speaker to it, because it has better bass extension with similar level of detail. The similarly priced 32ohm 19-21 heavy bass speaker is miles ahead, in a total different league in my opinion.


I can get good bass but at the expense of details, it's not that the 600ohm is sounding bad, it has great depth and really good separation, but it took a long time to get it tuned and it turned out fairly dark,  or too bright depending on the way I had it tuned, sub bass is awesome but it rolls off too early on the highs

The n52 I got are the 4 dollar ones, they are good, really good if you catch the right tuning, but all the high impedance drivers still sound on a different level
I think I may try the 19-21 sometime soon, you've got me interested


----------



## robar (Mar 6, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> I can get good bass but at the expense of details, it's not that the 600ohm is sounding bad, it has great depth and really good separation, but it took a long time to get it tuned and it turned out fairly dark,  or too bright depending on the way I had it tuned, sub bass is awesome but it rolls off too early on the highs
> 
> The n52 I got are the 4 dollar ones, they are good, really good if you catch the right tuning, but all the high impedance drivers still sound on a different level
> I think I may try the 19-21 sometime soon, you've got me interested


Oh I understand, some speakers are like that, if there is not enough extension on one side you can only compensate by sacrificing the response on the other side. Everyone has different tastes and it's better to just start with the right speaker, because tuning can only adjust the balance of whats already there. How did you tune the n52 by the way? I tried many many things with it and it sounded decent but I could never tune it close enough to my ideal response, simply not enough raw bass extension. It only gives ok bass if I tune it quite V shaped but even then its more like soft mid/high bass with thin vocals and not that clean deep hitting punch around 40-80hz with full flat mids which I love. I'll look for previous measurements if you're interested.
If you try the 19-21 heavy bass, let us know how you like it, the more opinions the better  Personally it's the most well rounded speaker from what I tried, great bass and crispy treble plus really really cheap. Will build more buds and share the result/process after I received my second order. Only the 6usd titanium 64ohm can beat it in bass extension by slight margin, but that speaker has darker treble which I dont think you would be satisfied with


----------



## Themilkman46290

robar said:


> Oh I understand, some speakers are like that, if there is not enough extension on one side you can only compensate by sacrificing the response on the other side. Everyone has different tastes and it's better to just start with the right speaker, because tuning can only adjust the balance of whats already there. How did you tune the n52 by the way? I tried many many things with it and it sounded decent but I could never tune it close enough to my ideal response, simply not enough raw bass extension. It only gives ok bass if I tune it quite V shaped but even then its more like soft mid/high bass with thin vocals and not that clean deep hitting punch around 40-80hz with full flat mids which I love. I'll look for previous measurements if you're interested.
> If you try the 19-21 heavy bass, let us know how you like it, the more opinions the better  Personally it's the most well rounded speaker from what I tried, great bass and crispy treble plus really really cheap. Will build more buds and share the result/process after I received my second order. Only the 6usd titanium 64ohm can beat it in bass extension by slight margin, but that speaker has darker treble which I dont think you would be satisfied with



For the n52, I feel the same, it's missing the sub bass rumble that the high impedance have, I tuned it with black thick foam covering all but 4 holes, and y2 paper on those 4 holes, then I modded the mettalic "tingo shells" to give it better bass extension using some cloth tape and a couple well positioned holes

Have you guys noticed yuming store has 2 versions of the decidula 130ohm?


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 7, 2020)

So the K's LBB I MMCX modded a while back needed some tuning.




The mod made a fairly big change in sound signature. It went from a dark smooth sounding bud to a much more balanced sound leaning towards an upper mids emphasis.

This is because the cable opening doubled as a port, as the wire diameter was approx 1.6mm vs 2.1mm hole. I grabbed my hand drill and used a .6mm bit to open a tiny hole. Used a ultra fine sharpie to darken the hole so it wasn't blindingly obvious.

I also used some Testors model flat black enamel I had laying around (from 10+ years ago lol) to coat the stem which had aluminum marks showing from clamping it in my drill to tap threads for the MMCX connectors.




Success. Brought back this buds unique smooth, darker and mid-bassy signature (sub-bass is rolled off). Definitely a non-fatiguing bud, probably a great sleep bud and for rock music.


----------



## subwoof3r (Mar 9, 2020)

Long time I didn't posted anything here, as I'm only using my mod with the 32ohm drivers we like with @robar. I don't see any benefic using other earbuds, lol.
I glued my mod so it will stick like this for a while.
I still need to order some drivers spare but I'm waiting for this virus thing to calm down a bit before ordering from china again.


----------



## golov17

ST-10S


----------



## robar (Mar 9, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> I own both (metal and plastic grids), the difference between them is very slight, but almost the same. From my memory, the metal ones are a bit more warmish and bassy probably due to the tighter fit with the thinner driver cover than the standard MX500 plastic cover.
> 
> Long time I didn't posted anything here, as I'm only using my mod with the 32ohm drivers we like with @robar. I don't see any benefic using other earbuds, lol.
> I glued my mod so it will stick like this for a while.
> I still need to order some drivers spare but I'm waiting for this virus thing to calm down a bit before ordering from china again.


I think you can order just fine, my DAC came in 2 weeks which is one of the fastest shipment I had so far. I also ordered from NSC at the end of february (two more of our fav speakers) and it's already in a transit country probably in the EU somewhere. So aliexpress standard packages come really fast with no problem. (at least those that got shipped in the first place, this is why I always ask the seller first if it's ok to order - NSC is good to go fortunately)

Anyway, I had a small project yesterday with dp100 shell and N50 speakers. This is probably my favorite build with this shell so far. For me DP100 shell is very finicky, I had many experiments in the past but I wasn't really content with any of the builds. My ears only like this shell with either steel mesh or dp100/mx760  covers, the regular plastic mx500 is too big for me in this case and makes the sound very forward and aggressive. I put a thick horseshoe from Jietu on the vents, cut into two pieces. I also removed the stock foam from the N50 speaker, leaving it bare. The sound is close to neutral with tight though not so deep bass, full mids and airy but gentle highs. It's sort of an improved, more transparent blue qian25 or Nicehck B40 in terms of sound signature. (better bass than B40, roughly similar to blue qian25) Sounds quite nice with vocals, acoustic/folk/jazz music. I will use this as my portable street/podcast listening set, so the main goal was a very good fit in my ears plus nice full midrange reproduction. If this speaker had better bass extension, it would be a pretty nice all rounder kit. Maybe I'll try upgrading it to the new 32ohm titanium steelmesh in the future.


----------



## slappypete

I was browsing Aliexpress today and came across a picture of what looks like a planer earbud driver in a photo from the comment section on this link. Does anyone know where these drivers came from? I've been out of the loop for a while now.


----------



## HungryPanda

The planar drivers are still a little expensive for my builds


----------



## slappypete

HungryPanda said:


> The planar drivers are still a little expensive for my builds


Do you know where to get them?


----------



## HungryPanda (Mar 9, 2020)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000066130009.html


----------



## furyossa

slappypete said:


> Do you know where to get them?


It's not the only problem because it expensive but tuning also. See this post by @ClieOS


----------



## furyossa (Mar 9, 2020)

HungryPanda said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000066130009.html


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32953543325.html
This is the "BIG Brother" 



golov17 said:


> ST-10S


Three impedance variants (120/150/300ohm) ?


----------



## slappypete

Thanks guys!


----------



## Themilkman46290

Just got the ti 64ohm for around $15, they are still burning in but so far, I like them a lot, better sub bass then the 32ohm n52 drivers and greater highs then the 600ohm before tuning, also got my 500ohm, it's nearly identical to the 600ohm but slightly more sub bass before tuning. Gonna let it all burn in before tuning, so far really happy with the 64ohm, it doesn't have the depth or sub bass of the 400,500,600ohm drivers but I feel with tuning it and right shells they might compete


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 12, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Built another MMCX bud today, I've been slacking on it.
> 
> Ordered these 14.mm 32ohm drivers Xmas eve from Chitty on AE. Balanced sound according to them.
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32230887418.html
> ...



Finally had a chance to listen to these drivers a little more in depth. Balanced sound, rolled off sub-bass. Doesn't really do anything great but also isn't bad.

Doesn't quite have the clarity of others but not badly muffled either. Just slightly veiled.

I'd put it on par with a mid-grade bud (3 of 5).



The PK1 red film still is the best 14.8mm driver I've tried thus far.

I may try these next.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32978993535.html


----------



## robar (Mar 12, 2020)

I revived my NSC MX760 build from last year (the blue shell one with white speaker, which is very similar to N50), and tried out new techniques that I've learnt recently. Fortunately I could improve the sound noticeably and now it's pretty sweet. I opened the bass port plus drilled one another vent on the side and also changed the tuning completely. Now it's quite balanced and neutral with quite good bass for a small shell + midcentric speaker, it can actually compete with average mx500 shell builds in my opinion. The upper mid brightness vanished and the bass got more depth and weight while remaining very clean and tight. It's too bad that the shell is not the perfect fit for my ears, the sharp edge start to hurt in about an hour and it is more prone to getting loose than dp100 for example. I'll try to address this problem and then post in more detail with pictures. 



assassin10000 said:


> I may try these next.
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32978993535.html


If I remember correctly, @subwoof3r has this speaker. It's said to be a midcentric one, lacking bass especially.


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> If I remember correctly, @subwoof3r has this speaker. It's said to be a midcentric one, lacking bass especially.



Actually, you were the one to point them out.




robar said:


> Anyone tried these drivers? This looks like low impedance diy flagship material for 14.8mm builds.. I have a collection of empty 14.8mm shells and I plan to build something nice with them next year. It would be nice to skip directly to the really good stuff, this is why I'm interested
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978993535.html



Since they said 64 ohm voice coil, instead of 64 ohm impedance that @subwoof3r thought it may be mid centric.



subwoof3r said:


> I almost reached the buy button several weeks ago but the only thing that made me stop is the word "voice" coil  I generally don't have much hope on drivers that have this word from sellers as they are good for voice only but not generally bassy, but who know!



But @HungryPanda said they have decent bass and sound good so I added them to my AE wishlist.



HungryPanda said:


> I have used those pk2 drivers, they sound pretty good. Use a tuning foam and bass is nice in a pk shell


----------



## robar (Mar 12, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Actually, you were the one to point them out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oops yes you're right sorry! I mixed up this with the 15.4mm 150ohm one which looks very similar and that's what subwoof3r has.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979025026.html I concluded that this probably lacks bass similarly by reading reviews on ali and ditched the idea of buying it. (expensive for me to just experiment) But I'm sure it performs very well on the mids/highs area and might be a good investment if 14.8mm is a priority.

edit: The listing itself says "balanced clear version" as well, which means it's midcentric / vocal centric. Maybe it would be better to ask the seller about the tuning, NSC responds quite quickly to these kinds of questions in my experience. If you get this titanium 14.8, let us know how it sounds, I'm curious! Would love to build a good full sounding bud with 14.8mm shell. (I have a couple, like the z-sound, also some pk and lg ones too with no good speakers)

What I'm really interested in at the moment is this one I posted few days ago, I have to use a lot of willpower to not order one immediately  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000741710087.html


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> edit: The listing itself says "balanced clear version" as well, which means it's midcentric / vocal centric. Maybe it would be better to ask the seller about the tuning, NSC responds quite quickly to these kinds of questions in my experience. If you get this titanium 14.8, let us know how it sounds, I'm curious! Would love to build a good full sounding bud with 14.8mm shell. (I have a couple, like the z-sound, also some pk and lg ones too with no good speakers)



I messaged NSC, waiting to hear back. I'll let you know if I ever get and build them. Currently they are out of 2 vent PK shells in black, so until those are available again, I probably won't order.

As far as good drivers, those 150ohm PK1 red film are the best DIY 14.8mm drivers I've come across. Better sounding than my legit Yuin PK2 buds, it's  nearing or in the same SQ realm as my Ourart ACG (w/more bass in comparison) and the Smabat ST-10 (less bass in comparison). Better than I recall the EBX being, but the EBX was too bright and fatiguing for me.


----------



## assassin10000

assassin10000 said:


> I messaged NSC, waiting to hear back. I'll let you know if I ever get and build them. Currently they are out of 2 vent PK shells in black, so until those are available again, I probably won't order.
> 
> As far as good drivers, those 150ohm PK1 red film are the best DIY 14.8mm drivers I've come across. Better sounding than my legit Yuin PK2 buds, it's  nearing or in the same SQ realm as my Ourart ACG (w/more bass in comparison) and the Smabat ST-10 (less bass in comparison). Better than I recall the EBX being, but the EBX was too bright and fatiguing for me.



Heard back from NSC Audio Store. "The driver is 3 way balanced type" So not vocal or mid centric, but balanced across lows, mids & highs.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978993535.html 



N55 should IMO lend itself to good control & clarity.



Now gotta wait until I find a worthy shell. Hmmm.


----------



## robar (Mar 14, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Heard back from NSC Audio Store. "The driver is 3 way balanced type" So not vocal or mid centric, but balanced across lows, mids & highs.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978993535.html
> 
> ...


Thanks for letting us know! In my experience 3-way balanced usually means a smooth organic signature with moderate roll off on both ends.  I wouldn't expect too much bass just a typical earbud level, (esp. because its 14.8mm) the main selling point could be midrange performance, resolution etc.

I disassembled my Faaeal Z-sound today, which has steel mesh 14.8mm speakers as well. Interestingly it's cover doesn't snap on most 14.8mm shells, it's way larger inside than regular PK for example, but still smaller than 15mm. However the B40 speaker snap on this shell quite well, will try to build something usable with it. I'm not super familiar with compatiblity among different 14.8mm speakers/shell, but maybe this n55 is a bit larger as well. Maybe bell shaped shells are the way to go that usually go with steel mesh covers already


----------



## assassin10000

The press fit stem that I drilled and tapped on these K's LBB had too much of a chance of pulling apart when disconnecting the MMCX cables IMO. Even though I use tools to disconnect. Popped them back apart and added some epoxy for additional strength.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Well, after a few days burning in the 64ohm ti for $15 I can say it's one of my top 3 favorite drivers, right under the 400ohm and 130ohm drivers

And I can definitely say, the 500ohm driver has a bit more sub bass then the 600ohm (nsc had told me it would have more bass) but to my surprise, the highs also are better, I would recommend them over the 600ohm

Also decided to experiment with some random shells, and I found an interesting but large option, after tuning, using the 32ohm n52 driver, I was able to get a very deep Soundstage, with deep rumbly sub bass, clean mids and clear, smooth highs


Used a puma shoelace, with cheap aipinchun 4 core 2mm cable from yuming, a bit of heat shrink with glue(for the y split) and two 16mm volume knobs for shells. Would be nice if the knobs had a taper but luckily the sit in my ears without falling out


----------



## robar (Mar 16, 2020)

Now that I can finally use my 150ohm Rosemary, I started to wonder what kind of speakers does it have. After a bit of inspection from the outside (it's transparent) it appears to be very similar to the 150ohm blue-glue speaker that cklewis and nsc store sells for example (cklewis has wrong pics in the listing but you can see it's actually same as the nsc from the feedback photos). I don't have a separate pair for reference but it does look pretty much the same, and the performance of Rosemary is similar to how @subwoof3r  described these speakers - overall nice smooth all rounder performance with good transparency (better than other budget stock earbuds I tried below 15usd), natural tonality, but technically not as good as the current diy favorites I have like the 19-21 32ohm or the 6usd titanium 64, which perform better in both extension and details. By the way the Rosemary has an interesting tuning, not my most favorite but quite good for certain genres and background listening/noisier environments. It has boosted midbass (seems like a common Faaeal character), thick mids and sparkly but still darkish highs. Bass extension is decent but not exceptional, the lower region is hidden behind the elevated midbass. I would totally tighten up the sound if I wasn't afraid to open it lol. It's ok but a bit too soft and thick for my taste, but it tames the brightness/harshness of certain tracks quite effectively that are usually quite a challenge with most earbuds. It's not perfect but still the best stock earbud I've had by far below 16usd. (I bought it on sale for 15.5)
Here's a pic, not sure if the speaker circuit looks clear but in person it does look the same from outside as the "blue 150ohm" speakers.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979616405.html


In the meantime, I received the second batch of my favorite "19-21khz 32ohm heavy bass" speakers, will test them soon and make some builds with various shells, probably one with mx500 shell and another with EA/RY4X or dp100 shells. I'll post if I make any progress on them. Thinking about ordering one 6-hole wood shell from nsc  for these but I'll probably postpone it due to the emergency situation in EU atm.


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Mar 19, 2020)

I been looking at a lot of drivers, getting very curious, has anyone here tried any of these? 

The tesla and the dual driver has me very curious, the reviews don't seem great on some, but I also realized not everyone actually sits and mods them, so has any body here tried nodding any of these?

If I understand correctly, the dual driver has  a couple of resistors and a caps, so to tune it, you could play around with some different values, changing the high and lows


----------



## evgeniy1213 (Mar 19, 2020)

Hi, all, received yesterday new pairs of drivers with full metal housing for it.
Top left - 15.4mm with beryllium(130ohm)
https://aliexpress.ru/item/33047315914.html
Right one in carton - 15.4mm 300ohm n52(low frequency)
https://aliexpress.ru/item/33043735233.html
And at the bottom parts of my old Toneking TO65 
Wired today those beryllium, all i can say is that sound is fascinating, far better in all aspects than toneking. Tried with smartisan m1l(CS4398 + OPA1612). Highly recommended. I'll try later bass one, still need new housing for it.
Photos
https://imgur.com/VNKUcgM


----------



## robar (Mar 21, 2020)

Hello there. I've been intrigued by the different types of mx500 shells for some time, especially the black "printless" ones that are usually bundled with some speakers. I noticed that they both look and sound different, and I've seen multiple builds here with those as well and I'm not sure if you're aware of the fact that these shells are not interchangeable.
Now I finally got to build two identical earbuds, one with the regular black (white print) and one with the bundled black. Everything else is the same, the cables, speakers (my fav 19-21 heavy bass), the tuning (simple horseshoe) and they indeed sound different. The "bundled shell" sound flatter, smoother, mellower with less emphasis on bass, it's less present by few dB below 150hz. It's less prone to harshness/brightness while the overall signature is lighter. The build with regular black sounds like a very tasteful U shape, which simulates big headphones/loudspeakers quite well with visceral bass impact. The bundled build lacks the impact and energy of that, it's flat and mellow  in comparison. I can imagine that with modding (like drilling) or different foam setup the bundled one can get more weight to its sound. (will post if I find something useful)

Overall I prefer the sound of the regular one, but I really like the build/mechanical quality and the lack of harshness of the bundled one. The regular shell build can get a little too hot in the low treble due to some resonance, will try to add foam inside to reduce reflections.  I'll try painted shells in the future and compare those as well.


Also took multiple detail photos and basically every single part is shaped differently between the two. They're basically two different molds, and also I feel the material is different as well. I'll compare them step by step with the aid of pictures. Left is the "regular black", right is the "bundled" version. Notice that even the stem opening has completely different shape, and the materials are not the same.


As you can see, the vents are completely different too. The "bundled" shell has much bigger gap on the bottom than the regular one, allowing to install the speaker either way. (the sound is different at top vs bottom orientation if you only put foam on the vents) The  vent holes are also positioned differently.


Notice how much bigger is the cable hole in the regular shell. The outer edge is quite different as well. First there is a "notch" on the bundled shell which is absent on the regular. Also, the bundled is less tight but much more consistent with snapping.  The regular one is prone to getting loose quickly, introducing mechanical noise and channel imbalance, also it damages the front covers more easily. I have to cherry pick the regular ones to get optimal snapping, some units don't work well with most covers without glue out of the box.


----------



## Themilkman46290

robar said:


> Hello there. I've been intrigued by the different types of mx500 shells for some time, especially the black "printless" ones that are usually bundled with some speakers. I noticed that they both look and sound different, and I've seen multiple builds here with those as well and I'm not sure if you're aware of the fact that these shells are not interchangeable.
> Now I finally got to build two identical earbuds, one with the regular black (white print) and one with the bundled black. Everything else is the same, the cables, speakers (my fav 19-21 heavy bass), the tuning (simple horseshoe) and they indeed sound different. The "bundled shell" sound flatter, smoother, mellower with less emphasis on bass, it's less present by few dB below 150hz. It's less prone to harshness/brightness while the overall signature is lighter. The build with regular black sounds like a very tasteful U shape, which simulates big headphones/loudspeakers quite well with visceral bass impact. The bundled build lacks the impact and energy of that, it's flat and mellow  in comparison. I can imagine that with modding (like drilling) or different foam setup the bundled one can get more weight to its sound. (will post if I find something useful)
> Overall I prefer the sound of the regular one, but I really like the build/mechanical quality and the lack of harshness of the bundled one. The regular shell build can get piercing in the treble due to some resonance, will try to add foam inside to reduce reflections.  I'll try painted shells in the future and compare those as well.
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking the time to compare, I also noticed a few of those things, I also found out that you must ge extra careful with the 500ohm and 600ohm drivers when closing the shell, because the shells without a notch will snap there voice coil if you don't get it right, recently lost my replacement 600ohm driver when I was tuning, sucks, that's 2 600ohm drivers lost, wish all shells had the notch.


----------



## robar

Themilkman46290 said:


> Thanks for taking the time to compare, I also noticed a few of those things, I also found out that you must ge extra careful with the 500ohm and 600ohm drivers when closing the shell, because the shells without a notch will snap there voice coil if you don't get it right, recently lost my replacement 600ohm driver when I was tuning, sucks, that's 2 600ohm drivers lost, wish all shells had the notch.


Oh man that really unfortunate :/
If someone finds it useful I can make these kind of detail shots or size comparison of many different shells. I have many generic types and also have other kinds of mx500. 

I'm modding an RY4X/earbuds anonymous type shell with promising improvement, will post it soon.

Also NSC store is uploading new stuff like crazy, probably they're getting prepared for the big sale next week. It's worth a look, new speakers shell and cables. There is a new 5 pair listing of 19-21 speakers with steel mesh cover, already asked about them will post if I get answer. Also new mx500 shells with different kind of painting than usual, and a good looking cheap cable (finally,  I always missed good affordable cables at nsc)
New arrivals ordered by time
Some stuff that caught my attention
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000812822617.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000809992483.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000823537630.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000808625788.html (this one looks like some kind of 19-21 build, if yes and tuned well, it could be new budget earbud king below 10usd, maybe I'll ask about it as well)


----------



## assassin10000

Anyone completely remove the stem of a Yuin/PK shell and use the shorter but slightly wider M4 x 0.5mm mmcx connectors?

Considering trying it once I get more shells and connectors if no one has checked that it won't work.


----------



## krass76 (Mar 24, 2020)

So I finaly had time to assemble my 600ohm beryllium drivers.
I used the black plastic shell that came with them (making them a sleeper build, effectively) with no additional damping foam and this TPE cable with thick copper wires:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32997959582.html
For strain relief I made a knot, but due to cable thickness it takes up a lot of room inside the shell.
Since the cable is quite heavy, I mount it to my shirt with the two wires to the headphones going through a binder clip (not squeezed by the clip!) and holding the sliding rubber spread-adjuster thing of the cable so the earphones are not being pulled on by gravity.





Sound: very impressive!
after hearing the VE Monk+, I thought I'd have to use heavy EQ and feared there wouldn't be much detail in the highs but the 600 ohm beryllium drivers exceeded my expectations by a wide margin!
I EQ'ed them to sound flat / neutral (to me), you can see the profile:
Q<7 = wide, Q>7 = narrow



And not only on my fireface, but also on the tiny Sandisk Sansa Clip+ (Rockbox + now replaced battery), these have very good resolution. Not on par with DT880 600ohm but they come somewhat close and they're certainly very useable.
As always, good HRTF software (hear is one) makes any headphones/earphones sing!

Thank you all for giving good advice on here and basically providing enough purchase power to keep these available!
10/10 would build again!


----------



## robar (Mar 28, 2020)

There is a brand new type of plastic 15.4mm shell at NSC, I haven't seen these before. Do you know this model? The design looks like an improved mx760, or a mix between mx760 and dp100 shells. The overall shape and the layout of vents looks quite nice to me (especially the deep edge and proper horseshoe platforms), much better than original mx760 in terms of comfort and diy potential (without bass port though). And it's really cheap so I've ordered a 2 pair lot already plus a matte wood shell. I'm actually pretty excited for this, I'll try it with the 19-21 32ohm speakers, hopefully will become a really fun and ultra comfy set, potentially a great prototype for future gifts.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000851137552.html

Will post about some ongoing projects in the close future, I listen more and build less  nowadays but I had success with drilling mods with some shells, will take photos soon.


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 28, 2020)

robar said:


> There is a brand new type of plastic 15.4mm shell at NSC, I haven't seen these before. Do you know this model? The design looks like an improved mx760, or a mix between mx760 and dp100 shells. The overall shape and the layout of vents looks quite nice to me (especially the deep edge and extra one hole on the other side), much better than original mx760 (without bass port though). And it's really cheap so I've ordered a 2 pair lot already plus a matte wood shell. I'm actually pretty excited for this, I'll try it with the 19-21 32ohm speakers, hopefully will become a really fun and ultra comfy set, potentially a great prototype for future gifts.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000851137552.html
> 
> Will post about some ongoing projects in the close future, I listen more and build less  nowadays but I had success with drilling mods with some shells, will take photos soon.



Look nice. Wish I found most 15.4mm sets as comfortable as 14.8mm ones.


I ordered those N55 14.8mm drivers and some 1 vent pk shells to mod. Can't find any black double vent pk at the moment. Oh well, not too worried as high end sets are also 1 vent (simphonio dragon 2+ and 3).


----------



## beanxinh

My first pair of DIY. After waiting for 3 months the drivers finally arrived. By mistake I bought an 14.8mm pk2 diy driver so they don't fit on the 15.4mm shells I have so I had to glue the whole thing together (I don't want to wait another month for the correct shell arrive).


----------



## SiggyFraud

Any recommendations for 15.4mm drivers that sound good OOTB and don't require a lot of tuning magic? Preferably below $10. I'll be stuffing them in MX500 shells.
I have these 32 Ohm ones on the way


and right now I'm eyeing these.


----------



## robar (Mar 29, 2020)

SiggyFraud said:


> Any recommendations for 15.4mm drivers that sound good OOTB and don't require a lot of tuning magic? Preferably below $10. I'll be stuffing them in MX500 shells.
> I have these 32 Ohm ones on the way
> and right now I'm eyeing these.


I have both, I much prefer the one on the top (19-21 heavy bass) but the second one is decent too (N50). The fist one is my favorite I just ordered the 4th pair yesterday. I have one build where I just put it into regular black mx500 with standard horseshoe and it sounds great. The N50 has less bass and treble, less details and overall a smoother mellow sound in the exact same setup. If you just put it into the bundled mx500 shell without removing the preinstalled horseshoe, you will get a v shaped sound with bloated midbass and sharp upper mids. Only advantage is that steel mesh cover is more comfortable in certain shell like dp100. 
I haven't tried yet but nsc has a Titanium 19-21 steel mesh which could be very interesting.


----------



## SiggyFraud

robar said:


> I have both, I much prefer the one on the top (19-21 heavy bass) but the second one is decent too (N50). The fist one is my favorite I just ordered the 4th pair yesterday. I have one build where I just put it into regular black mx500 with standard horseshoe and it sounds great. The N50 has less bass and treble, less details and overall a smoother mellow sound in the exact same setup. If you just put it into the bundled mx500 shell without removing the preinstalled horseshoe, you will get a v shaped sound with bloated midbass and sharp upper mids. Only advantage is that steel mesh cover is more comfortable in certain shell like dp100.
> I haven't tried yet but nsc has a Titanium 19-21 steel mesh which could be very interesting.


Thanks so much for your input. I guess I'll skip the N50 then and order another pair or two of the 19-21 heavy bass instead. Might try them in different tuning configurations. 
Are these the titanium ones you meant? I was looking at them too.
Any other drivers that you had success with?


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Look nice. Wish I found most 15.4mm sets as comfortable as 14.8mm ones.
> 
> 
> I ordered those N55 14.8mm drivers and some 1 vent pk shells to mod. Can't find any black double vent pk at the moment. Oh well, not too worried as high end sets are also 1 vent (simphonio dragon 2+ and 3).


Here is double vent PK https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2046553820.html


----------



## robar (Mar 29, 2020)

SiggyFraud said:


> Thanks so much for your input. I guess I'll skip the N50 then and order another pair or two of the 19-21 heavy bass instead. Might try them in different tuning configurations.
> Are these the titanium ones you meant? I was looking at them too.
> Any other drivers that you had success with?


You're welcome  Yes it's a good thing to buy multiple pairs from the same speakers, because there is always a possibility that you get a faulty or less good unit and then the whole set wouldn't work well. I certainly received some speakers where one unit was faulty, fortunately NSC store is very supportive, for example they sent me a free replacement unit for the Titanium 64ohm and quickly refunded in another case. Luckily I haven't experienced this with the 19-21.  However I did receive one unit out of the 6 I have which has a bit less bass and brighter highs, (I havent tried the sucking fix on it yet) so there could be some sample variation, but overall this is one of the most consistent models I ordered from NSC so far.

Yes that's the titanium I was thinking about. For now I'll wait for the reviews of others and then try it if they say it's worth it.

I tried out a couple of 32ohm speakers: N52, N50, blue mx760 set from NSC (speaker is very similar to N50), EMX500, random steel mesh from NSC and the 19-21 heavy bass version.  All of them are OK but if maximum sound quality is the goal I can only recommend the 19-21, it is one of the cheapest and sound far better than the others in my opinion.
The only other speaker I really like at the moment is the Titanium 64ohm (looks similar to the 19-21 but with blue dot). It is smoother, darker and somewhat deeper than 19-21, for the price of softer less detailed sound especially treble. It needs good power to open up otherwise it'll sound muffled. It is very nice for entertainment like movies, games because it has an awesome subwoofer like bass with clean organic mids/highs. It's more forgiving with harsh/sharp mixes and bad quality recordings so I like to use it for background listening and for certain genres where people consantly mess up the post production haha. I use it in a regular black mx500 with a mix of two different kinds of tuning foam, one half is the regular type and the other is the very thick one from jietu. I'll probably make a more detailed post about my builds with pics and measurement, I'm just waiting for cables to arrive.


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 29, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Here is double vent PK https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2046553820.html



I know , I have that bookmarked. Unfortunately they are only available in white currently.


----------



## assassin10000

Almost had a bad day earlier. I was transferring my PK1 red film drivers from the metal housings I have to a modded PK shell and when I went to clip the drivers on, one of the covers cracked.

Fortunately I had a spare DIY SR2 driver (was sent 3) and I was both able to safely disassemble the PK1 driver and salvage the SR2 cover. The SR2 driver came apart on removal.





Made my short stem set go from this:


To this:


----------



## SiggyFraud

robar said:


> You're welcome  Yes it's a good thing to buy multiple pairs from the same speakers, because there is always a possibility that you get a faulty or less good unit and then the whole set wouldn't work well. I certainly received some speakers where one unit was faulty, fortunately NSC store is very supportive, for example they sent me a free replacement unit for the Titanium 64ohm and quickly refunded in another case. Luckily I haven't experienced this with the 19-21.  However I did receive one unit out of the 6 I have which has a bit less bass and brighter highs, (I havent tried the sucking fix on it yet) so there could be some sample variation, but overall this is one of the most consistent models I ordered from NSC so far.
> 
> Yes that's the titanium I was thinking about. For now I'll wait for the reviews of others and then try it if they say it's worth it.
> 
> ...


Can't thank you enough for all the input. Ended up ordering another 19-21 heavy bass and the Titanium 64ohm. Together with some new cables and MX500 shells, this should make for a few busy evenings. If only the parcel would get here sooner...
Anyway, thanks again and looking forward to reading more about your builds.


----------



## KevDzn

DAY10 LOCKDOWN
With so much time on my hands I decided to mod some Docomos and Kube V1 earbuds.


----------



## subwoof3r (Mar 30, 2020)

Hey everybody,
Just bought 3 pairs of my still current favorite *32 ohm 15.4mm drivers* for *9,59$* shipped !! 
Aliexpress coupon code available for now to reduce a bit more of 2$ : "*PR262Y7A*"  (be fast!) // btw, code is working for at least 10,9$ of buy
Cheers'


----------



## SiggyFraud

subwoof3r said:


> Hey everybody,
> Just bought 3 pairs of my still current favorite *32 ohm 15.4mm drivers* for *9,59$* shipped !!
> Aliexpress coupon code available for now to reduce a bit more of 2$ : "*PR262Y7A*"  (be fast!) // btw, code is working for at least 10,9$ of buy
> Cheers'


Boy, am I happy I bought two pairs of these It's great to read another reassuring opinion.


----------



## assassin10000 (Mar 30, 2020)

I was poking around and saw these 14.8mm 'bass unit' drivers. Covers remind me of the EBX, hopefully they aren't bright like it was (not that I expect it, given they are a 'bass unit').

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32877041035.html


----------



## furyossa

KevDzn said:


> DAY10 LOCKDOWN
> With so much time on my hands I decided to mod some Docomos and Kube V1 earbuds.


Very cool builds. Black - orange combo looks awesome.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> I was poking around and saw these 14.8mm 'bass unit' drivers. Covers remind me of the EBX, hopefully they aren't bright like it was (not that I expect it, given they are a a 'bass unit').
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32877041035.html


This driver is not EBX and is rather inferior to the original EBX. I use it for my sleeping buds


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> This driver is not EBX and is rather inferior to the original EBX. I use it for my sleeping buds



Nice. I wasn't hoping for EBX like. So that works for me. I'm hoping for some sub-bass without too much mid-bass and a smooth, but not veiled or muddy signature.


----------



## assassin10000

HungryPanda said:


> I use a pair of angled tweezers to position the foams in PK shells, I have even seen pictures of electrical tape being used in some quite expensive earbuds



Well, I just used some electrical tape in my modded pk shells after removing the foam. 

I needed less airflow to tighten up the lower end, it was quite bloated and mid-bassy with no tuning mods. I also put a bit of cotton in there too. Still working on tuning. I may need to close up the port for a different size hole.

The diy pk1 red film drivers were easy to tune with those other brass shells but I'm not a fan of the overall weight of them.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Got my second pair of 400ohm this time with metal screen, these have been the best drivers for me. Don't know if you guys noticed jietu is back so I put in an order for a second pair of 130ohms, so far the 400ohms have the best rumble you can really feel, with good clean and well extended highs, The 130ohms still have the best details and highs while the bass and mids are just a little behind compared to the 400ohms, and the 64ohm ti for 15$ is a nice relaxing pair, good details, clean mids, good bass


----------



## beanxinh

furyossa said:


> This driver is not EBX and is rather inferior to the original EBX. I use it for my sleeping buds


Where can you buy a cable like this? Thank.


----------



## beanxinh

My second pair of DIY, this time I'm using an 150 ohm driver.
The bass is a little bit too much for my liking so are there anyway to reduce it? I see you guys often modding the shell to get the desired sound signature, so are there any rule to it? Thank.


----------



## robar (Apr 2, 2020)

beanxinh said:


> My second pair of DIY, this time I'm using an 150 ohm driver.
> The bass is a little bit too much for my liking so are there anyway to reduce it? I see you guys often modding the shell to get the desired sound signature, so are there any rule to it? Thank.


What is the current tuning? We can help if we know what's inside at the moment. Generally speaking, with mx500 shells you get a balanced tight sound if you put a standard horseshoe on the shell and nothing or at max very thin (white) horseshoe on the speaker. If there is foam on the speaker and you dont want to remove it, you can try covering/blocking some of the vents on the shell but it will brighten up the mids.

In my experience the general logic is this:

1. covering the vents of the shell tightens up the bass and increases upper midrange (about 1.5-3khz) It also makes the bass deeper to some extent compared to completely open vents. However if the vents are blocked too much, the bass will vanish and the mids become piercing. (not really a concern of you atm, it only happens in extreme cases) So if an earbud sounds dark and boomy, cover the vents more.

2. Covering the back of the speaker pushes the lower midrange back (about up to 1.5khz)  essentially making the midbass and upper mids more prominent. Basically if the earbud sounds too midcentric or flat, try adding a thin foam on the speaker. If the bass and upper mids are too prominent, try removing it or replacing with thinner type.

3. Drilling new vents on the shell creates more headroom for the previous tuning options. It usually pushes back the upper mids and increases mid/upperbass. If a shell has insufficent vents (quite a lot generic shells need more vents, also mmcx mod can block vents ) then this is the only way to make proper tuning possible. But too much vents make the sound sloppy and impactless. Basically if the earbud sounds bright or sharp and you have no other option, then add more vents.

This is a balancing game really. Tuning is about relative differences, so any change will affect the whole sound.  I'll post measurements which make these points much more clear


----------



## beanxinh

robar said:


> What is the current tuning? We can help if we know what's inside at the moment. Generally speaking, with mx500 shells you get a balanced tight sound if you put a standard horseshoe on the shell and nothing or at max very thin (white) horseshoe on the speaker. If there is foam on the speaker and you dont want to remove it, you can try covering/blocking some of the vents on the shell but it will brighten up the mids.
> 
> In my experience the general logic is this:
> 
> ...





Thank for your information. This is what inside my bud. I'll spend more time to burn the driver to see if the sound improve. After that I will try to mod the shell base on your guide.
Also I'm quite sure what do you mean by "back of the speaker", does it where I currently put the horse shoe?


----------



## Themilkman46290

beanxinh said:


> Thank for your information. This is what inside my bud. I'll spend more time to burn the driver to see if the sound improve. After that I will try to mod the shell base on your guide.
> Also I'm quite sure what do you mean by "back of the speaker", does it where I currently put the horse shoe?


Try putting the horse shoe on the shell vents instead of the driver


----------



## robar (Apr 3, 2020)

beanxinh said:


> Thank for your information. This is what inside my bud. I'll spend more time to burn the driver to see if the sound improve. After that I will try to mod the shell base on your guide.
> Also I'm quite sure what do you mean by "back of the speaker", does it where I currently put the horse shoe?


Yes, the bass is boomy because the shell itself has no foam on the "platform". The current setup you have is almost always gives too much mid/upper bass and overly dominant upper mids (with the shell type you have). Do you have any other tuning foam? Usually the foam installed on the speaker is not ideal for putting on the shell. But if I see correctly your speaker has two foams on it, one regular on top of a thin layer. Try putting that top layer on the shell, maybe it will work!


----------



## beanxinh

Thanks. I still have other foam that come with the shells


The top ones were comed with the black mx500 shells and the bottoms comed with the white ones, I think they have the same thickness, and I don't know where to put the middle foams into the shell so I just leave it outside and just apply the horse shoe. The drivers do not come with the tuning foams, just that I put them on the wrong way and had chaged it according to themilkman46290 suggestion. I think the bass come a little less bloated.


----------



## robar (Apr 3, 2020)

Quick rundown of my Titanium 64ohm build which is finally starting to come together. I used two different foams on the vents, one is the regular type (from set of mx500 speakers) the other is the thick jietu-type. The biggest lesson I learned is that in configurations like this it's very important to cut the foam strips to proper length. In the first prototype I just cut the foams into half and let the excessive parts hang. But it created sharp resonances in the upper mid/lower treble region. I also put a small piece of the horseshoe-middle between the vents, not sure what exactly is the effect but I think it further decreased resonances for the price of some bass impact (still thinking about removing it). Now it's very smooth with no peaks even at high volume.

The shell is regular mx500 black with white print, no modifications needed. Cable is RY-C10 from RY store. I had to cherry pick the best fitting shells for the speakers, because imperfect fit created channel imbalance otherwise and I didn't want to glue (well I don't have any glue haha). The thick jietu foam keeps the covers in position by the way, with only thin foam the speakers were loose.

I really like how it sounds, it has a full, weighty smooth sound with deep powerful bass. The bass is boosted but it is clean and the main boost is concentrated between 50-100hz. Mids and highs are natural. The upper mids are smooth and tamed. The top end of the treble is somewhat dark with less resolution which is expected with this speaker. Overall a gentle enveloping sound paired with excellent bass and beautiful vocals, it complements crispy/more analytic earbuds very well. Very good for long term listening, gaming, movies etc. Faaeal Rosemary - which is a well respected dark/smooth/bassy earbud - is boomy, muddy, shallow, less transparent in comparison.




beanxinh said:


> Thanks. I still have other foam that come with the shells
> The top ones were comed with the black mx500 shells and the bottoms comed with the white ones, I think they have the same thickness, and I don't know where to put the middle foams into the shell so I just leave it outside and just apply the horse shoe. The drivers do not come with the tuning foams, just that I put them on the wrong way and had chaged it according to themilkman46290 suggestion. I think the bass come a little less bloated.


Yep the horseshoe should go on the shell, the middle part is just the byproduct of cutting out the horseshoe shape. It can be used sometimes with different tuning scenarios.
Glad it works, did you remove all foam from the speaker? Have you tried putting the speakers into the black shells? Maybe it will sound better, at least I don't have positive experience with transparent plastic shells in general.


----------



## phcjpp

beanxinh said:


> My second pair of DIY, this time I'm using an 150 ohm driver.
> The bass is a little bit too much for my liking so are there anyway to reduce it? I see you guys often modding the shell to get the desired sound signature, so are there any rule to it? Thank.


Can I just say those are seriously nice - kudos!

Chris


----------



## beanxinh

robar said:


> Quick rundown of my Titanium 64ohm build which is finally starting to come together. I used two different foams on the vents, one is the regular type (from set of mx500 speakers) the other is the thick jietu-type. The biggest lesson I learned is that in configurations like this it's very important to cut the foam strips to proper length. In the first prototype I just cut the foams into half and let the excessive parts hang. But it created sharp resonances in the upper mid/lower treble region. I also put a small piece of the horseshoe-middle between the vents, not sure what exactly is the effect but I think it further decreased resonances for the price of some bass impact (still thinking about removing it). Now it's very smooth with no peaks even at high volume. The shell is regular mx500 black with white print, no modifications needed. Cable is RY-C10 from RY store. I had to cherry pick the best fitting units for the speakers, because I didn't want to glue (well I don't have any glue haha). The thick jietu foam keeps the covers in position by the way, with only thin foam the speakers were loose.
> I really like how it sounds, it has a full, weighty smooth sound with deep powerful bass. The bass boosted but it is clean and the boost is concentrated between 50-100hz. Mids and highs are natural. The upper mids are smooth and tamed. The top end of the treble is somewhat dark with less resolution which is expected with this speaker.Very good for long term listening, gaming, movies etc. Faaeal Rosemary - which is a well respected dark/smooth/bassy earbud - is boomy, muddy, shallow, less transparent in comparison.
> 
> 
> ...


Using the bud without any foam bring the bass down to my desire level  . I'll try with the black shell later and see if the sound change for the better. I'm still waiting for the wood and the metal shells which will coming next week to swap around the driver.
Thanks again for your help


----------



## robar (Apr 3, 2020)

Here's a fun tuning project I made few weeks ago which I'm very pleased with. This build is based on the blue mx760 set from NSC store, maybe it will be interesting for @subwoof3r because he has this set as well  The speaker is very similar to the N50, just a bit crispier. It sure has a powerful magnet inside because the earbud shells snap together when they're close on the desk 

The set originally doesn't come with any foam besides the thin white layer on the speaker. The sound was nice but the upper mids were too sharp and the bud had a tendency to be harsh and peaky in the lower treble. I made many modifications to the shell and tuning, and now it sounds really good for what it is. It is neutral, spacious with impressive bass from this shell/speaker combo. (tight with good depth and punch, reminiscent of much bigger shells) Btw I couldn't fit any other speaker to this particular shell.
It might not be in my top 3 based on sound alone (my preferred speakers are better of course), but it's still one of my favorite projects because I feel that I succeeded at bringing out the most from the material, utilizing many techniques and it does sound pretty decent. (I like it more than any stock earbud I bought below 15usd) It is a good all rounder but I especially like it with acoustic songs, symphonic orchestras, film scores etc. The fit and comfort is not the most ideal for me (bit too loose with sharp corners) but it could be pretty nice for small ears. The new shell from nsc seem to improve every aspect of this shell, this is why I'm excited about that.

These are the mods I made:
1. drilled one 1.5mm vent on the side, then covered it with thick jietu foam
2. opened bass port with 1.5mm drill bit
3. enlarged the cable hole with 2mm drill bit
4. put regular foam on the vent platform
5. removed thin white foam from the speaker


----------



## furyossa

beanxinh said:


> Where can you buy a cable like this? Thank.


I build this cable with two spare cables from some old earbuds. 
Parts that I use for this build
Cables: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32963864487.html  ;  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32684911951.html
Shell: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33046806795.html
Driver: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32877041035.html
Plug: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32700274028.html
MMCX: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000040929365.html
I cut splitters and plugs from black and white cables and braid new one from these wires


----------



## furyossa

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000844080550.html
This titanium diaphragm looks promising


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> Here's a fun tuning project I made few weeks ago which I'm very pleased with. This build is based on the blue mx760 set from NSC store, maybe it will be interesting for @subwoof3r because he has this set as well  The speaker is very similar to the N50, just a bit crispier. It sure has a powerful magnet inside because the earbud shells snap together when they're close on the desk
> 
> The set originally doesn't come with any foam besides the thin white layer on the speaker. The sound was nice but the upper mids were too sharp and the bud had a tendency to be harsh and peaky in the lower treble. I made many modifications to the shell and tuning, and now it sounds really good for what it is. It is neutral, spacious with impressive bass from this shell/speaker combo. (tight with good depth and punch, reminiscent of much bigger shells) Btw I couldn't fit any other speaker to this particular shell.
> It might not be in my top 3 based on sound alone (my preferred speakers are better of course), but it's still one of my favorite projects because I feel that I succeeded at bringing out the most from the material, utilizing many techniques and it does sound pretty decent. (I like it more than any stock earbud I bought below 15usd) It is a good all rounder but I especially like it with acoustic songs, symphonic orchestras, film scores etc. The fit and comfort is not the most ideal for me (bit too loose with sharp corners) but it could be pretty nice for small ears. The new shell from nsc seem to improve every aspect of this shell, this is why I'm excited about that.
> ...


Nice! thanks for the infos, I will maybe give a try, but for now I moved to another hobby, I'm learning to be a freestyle drone pilot and learning to build my first drone by myself  (that is why I'm much less active here and on EA group, sorry for that)


----------



## SiggyFraud

robar said:


> Quick rundown of my Titanium 64ohm build which is finally starting to come together. I used two different foams on the vents, one is the regular type (from set of mx500 speakers) the other is the thick jietu-type. The biggest lesson I learned is that in configurations like this it's very important to cut the foam strips to proper length. In the first prototype I just cut the foams into half and let the excessive parts hang. But it created sharp resonances in the upper mid/lower treble region. I also put a small piece of the horseshoe-middle between the vents, not sure what exactly is the effect but I think it further decreased resonances for the price of some bass impact (still thinking about removing it). Now it's very smooth with no peaks even at high volume.
> 
> The shell is regular mx500 black with white print, no modifications needed. Cable is RY-C10 from RY store. I had to cherry pick the best fitting shells for the speakers, because imperfect fit created channel imbalance otherwise and I didn't want to glue (well I don't have any glue haha). The thick jietu foam keeps the covers in position by the way, with only thin foam the speakers were loose.
> 
> ...


Hold up. Are you saying that using either black or transparent coloured shell gives different tuning results?


----------



## robar (Apr 5, 2020)

By the way, if anyone's interested, GHXamp store started to add new earbud speakers to its inventory with quite detailed info in some cases. They have 130ohm Beryllium speaker for an affordable price as well (+ they have coupons). I haven't bought anything from the store yet but it looks reputable and they answered to my question quickly in the past.



subwoof3r said:


> Nice! thanks for the infos, I will maybe give a try, but for now I moved to another hobby, I'm learning to be a freestyle drone pilot and learning to build my first drone by myself  (that is why I'm much less active here and on EA group, sorry for that)


Awesome! But I hope you're not gonna fully disappear 



SiggyFraud said:


> Hold up. Are you saying that using either black or transparent coloured shell gives different tuning results?


I can't really tell for sure as I didn't have the chance to directly compare those. However I do know that there are significant differences between certain types of mx500 shells. For example black shells have two very different types with completely different molds, that I commented about earlier. I also have shells salvaged from Fengru Silver TC200 and white Vidos that yield significantly different response compared to other generic ones. (much more v-shaped with a strong boost on upper mid/low treble) These differences could have many reasons, like slightly different diameter of vents, or the material / finish itself could be partly responsible, even the way they snap  on covers, I don't know the exact reason, but the difference is there. Also whenever I encountered earbuds with transparent shells, I had problems with their bass response, I found them to be too soft and sloppy. (I struggled a lot with dp100 shells with no real success so far) Also when I was into buying cheap buds, people often recommended me to avoid transparent versions (like RY4S, EMX500 etc) This might be a coincidence of course, but enough for me to avoid transparent shells ever since. At the end of the day, only direct comparison would reveal the truth, this is just my experience and theory


----------



## Themilkman46290

Don't know if you guys have noticed jietu is back, they have the 130ohm beryllium for $15


----------



## robar

Themilkman46290 said:


> Don't know if you guys have noticed jietu is back, they have the 130ohm beryllium for $15


Yes fortunately they're back, I really liked shopping from them. Unfortunately they introduced really high shipping fees to my country in most of their products (2-3usd per product, even if the product itself costs less) so I lost my enthusiasm towards them. But you're right, they still sell the beryllium for less money than ghxamp, but frankly both stores sell it so cheaper than any other store that it hurts haha


----------



## GREQ (Apr 5, 2020)

My new favourite FOTM shell.
Sony HPM-64
+ Vido driver = bass monster... only try this if you love excessive bass. It's surprisingly tasteful too.
None of the usual mid-bass bloat you find in almost every other shell.

Needed to grind the ends of the shells with a rotary tool to get the drivers to snap on.
Only grind away 1mm around the entire edge circumference, and it snaps on perfectly.


----------



## robar (Apr 5, 2020)

Here's another fun tuning project I've made recently. This one was intended to be a temporary one until I receive the new shells, but it's quite nice actually. Not in my top 3 (19-21 in mx500 and qian69 shell, titanium 64 in mx500 shell) but better than expected, and very enjoyable as an all rounder backup set.

This is the same type of shell that for example RY4X or the Anonymous earbud uses, but this particular pair is actually about 10 years old. I got them as an accessory for a WayteQ music player.

This shell is another typical generic design which has insufficient vents by default, which creates compressed sound with too much upper mids. I added one 1.5mm hole on the side facing away from the ear, which smoothed out the frequency response. For the main vents I used thick jietu foam, and for the sides I added the regular type. In this setup with bare speakers, the sound was pretty flat and neutral (like flat-flat, not "harman-curve" ) with slight roll off on the treble. For a bit more excitement, I added a thin white horseshoe (salvaged from B40's speakers) to the speaker, which reduced a bit of the midrange, bringing forward the bass and treble in a controlled, tasteful manner. It added back the life and made the bass more punchy, and gave more presence to the treble. The speakers are my fav 19-21 heavy bass model of course.
By adjusting the length of the white horseshoe (how many holes it covers), it's possible to make a blend of the "flat" and "fun" signature. Be aware that if you leave some holes on the speaker exposed, than the rotation of the speaker will matter.

Overall it sounds quite nice and balanced, and the fit is much better than mx500. However, the same speakers with mx500 and qian69 shells provide somewhat wider, crispier sound with more perceived resolution. But it's still among the better builds I have and I would certainly prefer this than a build with transparent dp100 shell or putting a lesser speaker in mx500 for example.





GREQ said:


> My new favourite FOTM shell.
> Sony HPM-64
> + Vido driver = bass monster... only try this if you love excessive bass. It's surprisingly tasteful too.
> None of the usual mid-bass bloat you find in almost every other shell.
> ...


Awesome, I was always interested in this shell for diy purposes,  sadly I couldn't find a cheap source to buy one. Where did you get one?
You should really try it with better speakers though, personally I can't listen to vido speakers any more since I started buying diy parts haha. The 19-21 and the titanium 64 has both better bass extension than vido so you wouldn't lose that part either.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Here's another fun tuning project I've made recently. This one was intended to be a temporary one until I receive the new shells, but it's quite nice actually. Not in my top 3 (19-21 in mx500 and qian69 shell, titanium 64 in mx500 shell) but better than expected, and very enjoyable as an all rounder backup set.
> 
> This is the same type of shell that for example RY4X or the Anonymous earbud uses, but this particular pair is actually about 10 years old. I got them as an accessory for a WayteQ music player.
> 
> ...


Nice build. You said that the sound is compressed. Cavity size is obviously smaller then mx500, also in addition to the tuning foam, the cables also take up a lot of space especially when using a knot. Are you try these *snap clips*? It can improve airflow inside the shell


----------



## robar (Apr 5, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Nice build. You said that the sound is compressed. Cavity size is obviously smaller then mx500, also in addition to the tuning foam, the cables also take up a lot of space especially when using a knot. Are you try these *snap clips*? It can improve airflow inside the shell


Thanks! I said that about the shell's performance before the drilling mod  It didn't matter whether I used a knot or not. I realize that I didn't expressed it very well. I meant that due to the insufficient vents, the response had a big emphasis on mid/upper bass and upper mids, pushing every other frequency to the background, this kind of frequency response is what I called "compressed". By improving the airflow outwards with drilling an additional vent, this unevenness vanished and the response become balanced and smooth. This "insufficient vent symptom" is very typical of many generic shells and many cheap stock non-mx500 earbuds suffer from it. This is why I thought it is useful to describe a mod like this in more detail 

In my experience, the presence of knot doesn't really influence the response. I can imagine if there were a bass port that is totally obstructed by the knot, then it would have some effect, but usually the knot doesn't interfere with the sound. This shell in particular has basically no airflow towards the stem, and it's constructed in a way that it's not really possible to utilize it. (I think this is why it won't sound as airy and wide as an mx500, besides the deeper fit) I couldn't measure any difference with the Qian69 shell either which has a bass port next to the cable hole. I think it would matter only in very extreme cases or when the main vent is directly behind the knot.


----------



## Jsingh4

Are blur earphones even better than what you guy diy


----------



## HungryPanda

In a word, No but he makes very good ones


----------



## willyboyaudio

Friends, I enjoy reading through this thread immensely. I am a tinkerer at heart, more than I am a music lover LOL. 
I replaced the drivers on my Monk+ and I want to ask your input in tuning. I have the horseshoe foam on the driver holes. Without them, I remember the sound is dark but male vocals and heavy female vocals (Salena Jones) sound amazing. With them covering the holes, the sound is balanced out, bass is cut and the mids and treble come forward.

Here are my questions:
- What is the effect of moving the foam to the housing?
- If I undo the knot and replace it with a clip or cable tie, therefore freeing up some space in the chamber, how will it change the sound?
- What do you guys think about the white horseshoe foam as attached? Are the superior compared to the thicker dark gray foam?
Many thanks in advance.


----------



## willyboyaudio (Apr 9, 2020)

Answering my own question, I decided to play around with it during lunch break. 

Foam on the housing:
Emphasis is now on the sub bass, slightly more rumble, but less punch. Vocal doesn’t change much, slightly thicker and moved forward. Staging/imaging doesn’t change much to me. I think this is the more neutral rendering.

Foam covering the driver holes:
Emphasis is on lower mid-bass, giving the impression of more bass quantity, more punch. Vocals take a step back. I think this is the more fun tuning, V-shape EQ.

Does that reflect the general consensus of horseshoe foam placement? The above is my impression using donut foams.

Oh, and I’d still appreciate your thoughts about the white tuning cotton and the cable clip. Thanks guys.


----------



## robar (Apr 9, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> Answering my own question, I decided to play around with it during lunch break.
> 
> Foam on the housing:
> Emphasis is now on the sub bass, slightly more rumble, but less punch. Vocal doesn’t change much, slightly thicker and moved forward. Staging/imaging doesn’t change much to me. I think this is the more neutral rendering.
> ...


Yes it's about right overall. In my experience, putting the foam only on the speaker makes the vocals suffer quite a bit (become too thick on bottom, too thin, bright on top)  and the bass is boomy for my taste. Also it usually makes the bud more prone to peaks, resonances. But I'm really picky in these, and it depends on the type of foam used  I prefer a boost at 50-100hz and not around 100-300hz personally. Btw I speak about preinstalled foams on speakers (like with N50 N52) vs regular horseshoe on mx500.  
If the speaker is  capable of powerful bass, then the neutral foam-on-the-shell tuning will provide enough bass punch anyway, and the low region will have fast, deep tight profile with strong impact. The exact effect depends on the exact driver/shell combo anyway so it's always nice to try things out.  There are quite noticeable  differences between mx500 shells as well, and the strength of snapping matter too. Some sound very flat and some are really vs shaped even with simple horseshoe on the vents. The regular black shell usually has quite good bass with slightly bright but not far from neutral mids.
Very often the tuning efforts are about making the bass more powerful and preserving or improving the neutral-ish response in the mids and highs. This is where the sliced up foams, drill mods etc come into play. I usually like to boost up the bass below 100hz and tame the upper mids a little bit. This is where we can find plenty of opportunities to experiment and discover our own tastes as well. Comparing different tunings side by side can be very educational

The white cotton makes a similar effect to the foam on speaker but in a more subtle way. It's good as a secondary adjustment, for example making a mix between the "neutral" and "fun" signature. Generally if the sound is too midcentric or too flat, try putting on a white cotton. If it's too much, you can try a thinner variant or by cutting it into smaller pieces and leaving some hole untouched. I haven't tried it in conjunction with a full foam on mx500 though, but I'll make a test.

Regarding knots and clips, I haven't noticed any significant effect. I upgrade and downgrade the cables all the time in my builds, sometimes I don't even bother to tie a knot if it's a quick experiment, and I usually notice no difference in the measurements. A thick cable in a very tight hole can have an effect (if it seals the stem) but knots and clips - never seen any effect. Recabling a stock earbud can be misleading, because the disassembly in itself can change the sound considerably (breaking the glue, damage to front cover, snapping back differently etc)
Removing a cable clip can be really hard and you can easily damage the cable in the process (I did multiple times), so I avoid it at all costs haha. If you need a smaller knot and use a twisted/braided cable, you can tie individual knots on the sub lines. I discovered this trick when I made my first bud with mx760 shell.


----------



## willyboyaudio (Apr 9, 2020)

robar said:


> Yes it's about right overall. In my experience, putting the foam only on the speaker makes the vocals suffer quite a bit (become too thick on bottom, too thin, bright on top)  and the bass is boomy for my taste. Also it usually makes the bud more prone to peaks, resonances. But I'm really picky in these, and it depends on the type of foam used  I prefer a boost at 50-100hz and not around 100-300hz personally. Btw I speak about preinstalled foams on speakers (like with N50 N52) vs regular horseshoe on mx500.
> If the speaker is  capable of powerful bass, then the neutral foam-on-the-shell tuning will provide enough bass punch anyway, and the low region will have fast, deep tight profile with strong impact. The exact effect depends on the exact driver/shell combo anyway so it's always nice to try things out.  There are quite noticeable  differences between mx500 shells as well, and the strength of snapping matter too. Some sound very flat and some are really vs shaped even with simple horseshoe on the vents. The regular black shell usually has quite good bass with slightly bright but not far from neutral mids.
> Very often the tuning efforts are about making the bass more powerful and preserving or improving the neutral-ish response in the mids and highs. This is where the sliced up foams, drill mods etc come into play. I usually like to boost up the bass below 100hz and tame the upper mids a little bit. This is where we can find plenty of opportunities to experiment and discover our own tastes as well. Comparing different tunings side by side can be very educational
> 
> ...



Thanks robar for taking the time to reply. Like you, I prefer a boost at 50-100Hz, and not around 100-300Hz. I appreciate clarity in the mid and highs, and I like airy/spacious tuning, as opposed to intimate/close up rendering.

I want to ask further, would you mind sharing or point me to a thread/post that outlines the step by step of tuning a pair of earbuds?

For example, since you mentioned "if the speaker is capable of powerful bass", does that mean we start with the bare drivers and the shell, then trying with tuning cotton/foam on the driver/shell? When do we start playing with the full foam and donut foam, obviously these have major impact on the sound. Any approach the worked for you, I'm keen to learn. Also, what songs/tracks do you use to tune a pair of buds?

Sorry for the loaded questions, and thank you again. I've read this thread from page 1 (partially just scheming so apologies if my questions are already covered) and I appreciate the wealth of information and the friendly nature of the discussion.


----------



## robar (Apr 10, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> Thanks robar for taking the time to reply. Like you, I prefer a boost at 50-100Hz, and not around 100-300Hz. I appreciate clarity in the mid and highs, and I like airy/spacious tuning, as opposed to intimate/close up rendering.
> 
> I want to ask further, would you mind sharing or point me to a thread/post that outlines the step by step of tuning a pair of earbuds?
> 
> ...


Well I don't really have a formal method, I just do it for fun in my free time.  I learned everything by experimenting a lot, reading stuff on the net, and chatting with hobbyists, and still have so much to learn.
Generally speaking, the tuning starts by selecting the right speaker and shell  This is the most important and you just have to try out many things to find what you like. The fit in your ears has a strong effect as well, if it's too loose or too deep then you won't get optimal sound.
I like to start with bare drivers and play with the tuning on the shell. I didn't like the preinstalled foam on anything so far. (but there are certain shells that are designed for this kind of tuning so it can work great in some cases) White cotton is useful but I don't have many, just the ones I salvaged from other earbuds so I use it rarely.
What really helps is the ability to measure and analyize the graphs. This way you can really understand what's going on and you can build a library of experiments that you can browse. But this is a messy topic.
My main interest now is finding the best, most comfortable alternatives to mx500 and experimenting with shell mods.

I would advise you to find a speaker model you like, preferably one that doesn't come with preinstalled foam. Then buy multiple pairs of it with a bunch of different shells and tuning foam. This way you can try out things and test them side by side. It's also helpful if you give some time for the evaluation, sometimes our ears need some rest to reset 

For me choosing foam is the last step, independent from the tuning. I usually stick with trig rain donuts every time. To be honest I havent found the best foam for myself yet


----------



## Themilkman46290

robar said:


> Yes it's about right overall. In my experience, putting the foam only on the speaker makes the vocals suffer quite a bit (become too thick on bottom, too thin, bright on top)  and the bass is boomy for my taste. Also it usually makes the bud more prone to peaks, resonances. But I'm really picky in these, and it depends on the type of foam used  I prefer a boost at 50-100hz and not around 100-300hz personally. Btw I speak about preinstalled foams on speakers (like with N50 N52) vs regular horseshoe on mx500.
> If the speaker is  capable of powerful bass, then the neutral foam-on-the-shell tuning will provide enough bass punch anyway, and the low region will have fast, deep tight profile with strong impact. The exact effect depends on the exact driver/shell combo anyway so it's always nice to try things out.  There are quite noticeable  differences between mx500 shells as well, and the strength of snapping matter too. Some sound very flat and some are really vs shaped even with simple horseshoe on the vents. The regular black shell usually has quite good bass with slightly bright but not far from neutral mids.
> Very often the tuning efforts are about making the bass more powerful and preserving or improving the neutral-ish response in the mids and highs. This is where the sliced up foams, drill mods etc come into play. I usually like to boost up the bass below 100hz and tame the upper mids a little bit. This is where we can find plenty of opportunities to experiment and discover our own tastes as well. Comparing different tunings side by side can be very educational
> 
> ...


You're right about most of this, but you should try the foams ment for the speakers, they cover all holes and have different thickness and density, they are less peaky then the short foams, and depending on the driver, sound better then the cotton paper

Got them from yuming


----------



## furyossa (Apr 10, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> You're right about most of this, but you should try the foams ment for the speakers, they cover all holes and have different thickness and density, they are less peaky then the short foams, and depending on the driver, sound better then the cotton paper
> 
> Got them from yuming


Wow, you collect all of these  Foams and cotton paper has totally different purposes. Semi-transparent ie thin paper is a good choice for the back of the driver to reduce ie to control the mids. I personally never use opaque white cotton paper. Foam only for shell tuning


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Wow, you collect all of these  Foams and cotton paper has totally different purposes. Semi-transparent ie thin paper is a good choice for the back of the driver to reduce the control of the mids. I personally never use opaque white cotton paper. Foam only for shell tuning


Some of those foams are for the driver, not the shells, i actually like them, the 7:1 sounds excellent on the 400ohm


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Some of those foams are for the driver, not the shells, i actually like them, the 7:1 sounds excellent on the 400ohm


I believe you. Anyway is there a difference between 400ohm with metal mesh cover and mx500 plastic cover?


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> I believe you. Anyway is there a difference between 400ohm with metal mesh cover and mx500 plastic cover?


Seems like the metal has a tiny bit more in the highs, and it's smaller, gets a better seal, giving it a pit more in the sub bass/bass


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Seems like the metal has a tiny bit more in the highs, and it's smaller, gets a better seal, giving it a pit more in the sub bass/bass


Opening from the inside (the plastic part behind the mesh) probably affects sound waves differently then mx500 cover. Also, I think that size (diameter) of metal mesh cover is slightly wider around 16mm


----------



## willyboyaudio

robar said:


> Well I don't really have a formal method, I just do it for fun in my free time.  I learned everything by experimenting a lot, reading stuff on the net, and chatting with hobbyists, and still have so much to learn.
> Generally speaking, the tuning starts by selecting the right speaker and shell  This is the most important and you just have to try out many things to find what you like. The fit in your ears has a strong effect as well, if it's too loose or too deep then you won't get optimal sound.
> I like to start with bare drivers and play with the tuning on the shell. I didn't like the preinstalled foam on anything so far. (but there are certain shells that are designed for this kind of tuning so it can work great in some cases) White cotton is useful but I don't have many, just the ones I salvaged from other earbuds so I use it rarely.
> What really helps is the ability to measure and analyize the graphs. This way you can really understand what's going on and you can build a library of experiments that you can browse. But this is a messy topic.
> ...


Thanks robar. For now, the speakers and shells are available, so I'm working on optimizing their sound. I've found that the MX500 shells is too small to get a comfortable fit in my ears, so I often look for ways to bolster the circumference. 
How can I start measuring earbuds? I have a Dayton Audio UMM-6 mic and REW. I'll do some search on this, but if you have any pointers, I'd appreciate it. 
With my speakers building, I rely on measurements more than my ears (70/30) since, as you said, fatigue, mood, etc vary too much for me to have confidence in my own ears and judgement hehehe.


----------



## willyboyaudio (Apr 12, 2020)

For peace of mind, I undo the knot and put a clip on. Looks like a sizable increase in ‘enclosure volume’. Taking sighted comparison and confirmation bias in consideration, I feel this mod makes the buds sound bigger, more headphone-like.
I also put white tuning cotton on the driver’s holes. I’m gonna try blu-tack on the vents and report back. Cheers guys!


----------



## furyossa (Apr 17, 2020)

After the *INTRO* I will start this topic with Semi-Large Cavity Size Shell for 130ohm Beryllium driver.




For this project, I used a black shell from Chitty's Store. This type of shell is very similar to the shell that I described in this post but there some differences.
With this illustration, I will try to explain what are the pros and cons of this type of shell.




Blue text represent _*PROS, *_red *CONS, *and *BLACK* shared opinion or comment
1. "Straight angle" shape on this shell is the 2nd type in terms of the comfort ("Concave arc" shape is 1st).
2. The angle between the shell and the neck of the shell is 90 degrees.
3. Back-side vent with mesh is present and allows proper air circulation and more spacious sound.
4. Foam width is Ok, between optimal and critical.
5. "A-detail" shows a little space between the shell and cover. So the connection is not good and in this case, we can use glue or double-sided duct tape for a temporary connection, if you plan to play with the tuning.
6. "B-detail": MMCX the connector that comes bundled with the shell also needs some glue work to be able to stay inside shell neck. 
   One more downside is the length of the neck (a bit longer) and narrower than the diameter of the male MMCX shell which distorts the aesthetics.
7. Although these shells are lightweight, the multi-core cables, because of its weight, tends to rotate the shell and break up the seal. On the plus side, these earbuds can be worn over-ear (not ideal suggestion) or str8-up.
8. The shell shape allows very good air-flow and very low sound reflection.
9. The rotation point is where the earbuds housing touches the earlobe ie ANTITRAGUS.
The last image shows one of 3 additional tuning options.
10. By adding tuning cotton with different diameters of the center hole (where the cable passes to the driver) we can reduce airflow and achieve
the effect similar to smaller cavity shells. Again, it all depends on the type of driver itself. For mid-centric types, I like to use shells with larger cavity size
and for the types where the bass dominates, medium cavity size shells. For this shell, this option is not applied.
11. The 2nd option proved to be the best in this type of shells. I added a tin wool filter in front of the vent to reduce bass and bring back the cleaner mids.
This option is convenient because we can always remove the mesh from the vent and change the filter.
12. Depends on how driver sounds, we can solve the problem by reducing the interior space by using cotton as a fill but in this case, it is not necessary.

I will add my conclusion after part 3.


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> After the *INTRO* I will start this topic with Semi-Open Cavity Size Shell for 130ohm Beryllium driver.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice guide, I am sure it will help a lot of people, great work


----------



## beanxinh

Hi guy,
In the efford of pushing an PK1 DIY into the shell I made a driver died (I can measure the impedance before trying pushing it to the shell but they show no impedance after that) are there any way saving it?
Thank.


----------



## furyossa

beanxinh said:


> Hi guy,
> In the efford of pushing an PK1 DIY into the shell I made a driver died (I can measure the impedance before trying pushing it to the shell but they show no impedance after that) are there any way saving it?
> Thank.


I broke my EMX500 (PK version 14.8mm) because I pressed the driver on a shell which not has any "lip" that can hold the driver. 
Previously driver is glued and I make the beginner mistake. Also, I broke HE150 by pressing the side of the driver trying to separate the driver from the shell which is glued.
You probably ripped the voice coil wires off and to fix it you need to do *this. *


----------



## beanxinh

furyossa said:


> I broke my EMX500 (PK version 14.8mm) because I pressed the driver on a shell which not has any "lip" that can hold the driver.
> Previously driver is glued and I make the beginner mistake. Also, I broke HE150 by pressing the side of the driver trying to separate the driver from the shell which is glued.
> You probably ripped the voice coil wires off and to fix it you need to do *this. *


Thank I guest I'll be more careful next time . The fix is too complicated for my clumsy hands


----------



## robar (Apr 16, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> Thanks robar. For now, the speakers and shells are available, so I'm working on optimizing their sound. I've found that the MX500 shells is too small to get a comfortable fit in my ears, so I often look for ways to bolster the circumference.
> How can I start measuring earbuds? I have a Dayton Audio UMM-6 mic and REW. I'll do some search on this, but if you have any pointers, I'd appreciate it.
> With my speakers building, I rely on measurements more than my ears (70/30) since, as you said, fatigue, mood, etc vary too much for me to have confidence in my own ears and judgement hehehe.


I measure by pushing the earbud with foam onto the mic of a Tascam dr-05 field recorder. The diameter of the mic barrel matches the earbud front cover perfectly so I don't need any special adapter.  I feed the signal of the Tascam into a Focusrite 2i2 which is then processed by REW. I made a post about this here with pictures a few months ago, I think you can find it.
I'm not familiar with your gear, but I can give some general pointers based on my experience. This is my point of view after a lot of reading and experimenting, but this is a controversial topic so others will have different opinions.  So first things first, try to bring the mic and earbud as close as possible, to eliminate any extra stuff which would create unnecessary distortions and resonances (just makes the graph unpredictable and hard to understand). Ideally you don't want anything else just the mic, the earbud and some kind of a platform/surface which lets the earbud front cover to sit in front of the mic. Maybe a small rubber ring or something like that, it depends on the shape of your mic. You need some kind of force that keeps the earbud in position, I use my hands as it's the simplest method and the strength of pushing doesn't really matter in my case, only the alignment. The most important thing is to not make a perfectly sealed environment, the seal should come by compressing the edge of the foam on the earbud front cover. (also, look out for the vents on the shell, don't cover them accidentally). But no matter how you do it, just don't expect perfectly unbiased measurements. My simple and straightforward technique gives pretty consistent and readable results, but it's not free from certain peaks. You definitely have to learn how to read the measurements with a critical eye, and there will be certain amount of guesswork no matter what.

So treat the earbud measurements more like a relative comparison, if the setup is consistent then you can compare different tunings perfectly. Choose a baseline, like your favorite earbud and use it as a point of reference. I can redo measurements weeks and months apart and the graphs will match. But don't expect it to be perfectly compatible with any other kind of measurements.  You can make educated guesses and compensate in head or even make some rough adjustments in the software, but it becomes speculative.

(edit) By the way, how do you mean that mx500 is too small for your ears? It becomes loose because it doesn't go deep enough, or the diameter is small? There are many shells that have more concave neck than mx500, so they reach deeper thus improving fit. I never had problem with the diameter itself, maybe you can still buy rubber rings that go below the foam, but I would try other shells as well.


----------



## beanxinh

My new pairs of earbuds. I use the same 300ohm driver with different shells to see how affect the sound signature. 
The wooden shell have more bass than the mx500 shell. I'll try to cover the vents to see how it going .


----------



## subwoof3r

Wow, already received my 3 pairs of favorite 32 ohm drivers that I ordered recently 
Can't wait to make some backup pairs now


----------



## robar

subwoof3r said:


> Wow, already received my 3 pairs of favorite 32 ohm drivers that I ordered recently
> Can't wait to make some backup pairs now


That's great, let's hope they all work well! Will you try them in different shells or tunings? I would be pretty interested in what else you can come up with these speakers  I have one additional pair on its way too. I will try it in the 6-hole wooden shell and the new plastic nsc shell when it arrives.


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> That's great, let's hope they all work well! Will you try them in different shells or tunings? I would be pretty interested in what else you can come up with these speakers  I have one additional pair on its way too. I will try it in the 6-hole wooden shell and the new plastic nsc shell when it arrives.


Yup, checked them with my multimeter as soon as opened  they are all OK, hopefully the sound will remains the same  I stay you tuned
I'm so happy with my current mod that not sure I will trysomething new for them, but if the sound change a bit between the oens we currently have, then I will try to adapt my mod for the new ones


----------



## robar

subwoof3r said:


> Yup, checked them with my multimeter as soon as opened  they are all OK, hopefully the sound will remains the same  I stay you tuned
> I'm so happy with my current mod that not sure I will trysomething new for them, but if the sound change a bit between the oens we currently have, then I will try to adapt my mod for the new ones


I see  So your current favorite tuning is with your MMCX modded shell, right? Have you tried to tune the speaker with regularly soldered setup? I guess it requires different tuning then, maybe the extra vent is not necessary in traditional setup. I'm just asking because I only do regular cable builds, so I can't really compare my tuning with yours for this reason. I'll experiment on my own, just interested in your opinion. I will play more with the mx500 shell as well after I received my backup pair


----------



## subwoof3r

robar said:


> I see  So your current favorite tuning is with your MMCX modded shell, right? Have you tried to tune the speaker with regularly soldered setup? I guess it requires different tuning then, maybe the extra vent is not necessary in traditional setup. I'm just asking because I only do regular cable builds, so I can't really compare my tuning with yours for this reason. I'll experiment on my own, just interested in your opinion. I will play more with the mx500 shell as well after I received my backup pair


Yup, I'm more a fan of MMCX builds since some time as there is no vents within the wires main hole, so the sound is definitely more clean and consistent (but also generally much more bright as default compared to direct wired), meaning it's also easier to fine tune, as every builds should sound the exact same 
Also, I have bunch of high quality MMCX cables so I prefer to use my favorite with most of my builds, it's easier to swap and also helps a lot to fine tune easily. I would say that the cable always have to be the last choice after our drivers and shells tune.


----------



## furyossa

This is the PART 2 for 130ohm Beryllium driver but this time I will explain my mod for "medium" cavity size shell.
Previous posts *INTRO*, *PART 1*
*




*
Before I start, I would like to dedicate this post to Thomas Wilson aka. @HungryPanda, one of the most significant members of this community and a man who loved the good earbud "mods". RIP Thomas.
What is special about this mod? This mod had two revisions (the first one is MMCX) and this is the first time that 
I prefer the "no-mmcx" version with a simple rubber "neck". Also, this shape and cavity size make this earbud one of my favorites in terms of comfort and sound reproduction.
For this mod, I choose this shell. I bought silver and black shells without the driver from _*DIY Earphone Tribe Store*_, but I think they're sold out. When I use this original model, similar to the _*YMHFPJ  Store*_ model but with 130ohm beryllium driver,
the sound was quite congested, with no spaciousness, so I decided to drill the back hole and install the rivets 
but I needed also to remove MMCX socket. The following picture shows all the parts intended for this mod.




To better explain what are the pros and cons of this type of shell with mmcx socket and without, I'll use this illustration.




Blue text represents _*PROS, *_red *CONS, *and *BLACK* shared opinion or comments.
1. "Concave arc" shape allows a very comfortable fit, personally, this is my favorite
2. The angle between the shell and the neck axis is not 90 degrees with mmcx socket 
which is also a major problem when it comes to the "rigid connection" between shell and "neck".
By using a rubber "neck" ("elastic connection") this problem can be avoided even if the angle is not 
90 degrees as the cable is easily adjustable even when worn str8-up or over-ear.
3. The existing vent is not sufficient to provide adequate airflow for a large driver.
4. Foam width is optimal.
5. "*A-detail*" shows no space between the shell and cover, and the connection between shell and driver cover is "light",
means that you can remove the driver very easy which is god for "modding" 
and you can always use glue for permanent connection.
6. "*B-detail*": MMCX the connector that comes bundled with the shell makes a "rigid connection" but after a while, 
this connection becomes loose as the screw rests on the curved surface of the shell.
7. I mentioned earlier the problem with a "rigid connection" when not at a 90-degree angle.
This is not a natural position of the hanging cable, and as you can see there is a rotation of the shell 
and perfect sealing is lost.
8. Closed back of the shell, small vent, mmcx and screw cause chaotic reflection of the sound waves 
and almost non-existing airflow.
9. The point of rotation is pushed by the width of male mmcx shell.
10. Now we have improved airflow which can be controlled by changing the diameter of the rivet hole.
11. The weight distribution, in this case, is better and we have no problem with the drag due to the weight of the cable 
and male mmcx shell. Therefore, better sealing is achieved because the highest weight is at the speaker position
I wear them often over-ear but str8-up is also comfortable.
12. In this case point of rotation is closer to the small vent but this not have any effect on airflow.
"*C-detail*" shows all mod elements. Instead of using knot on cable, I added green and red shrinking tubes to block 
the cable pull and mark the left and right sides at the same time. 
With this mod, you can easily tune the sound by changing the diameter or partially block rivet hole.


----------



## beanxinh

I'm struggling with the wooden shell. Close 1 vent did tighten up the bass but the trebe became piercing (when the singer raised voice it sound grainy at the top) I tried to lower mid bass (around 100hz) using pEQ to make vocal more clear but it didn't respond very well . With the mx500 shell raise the trebe at 2khz and reduce the bass at around 100hz make vocal more clear and airy.


----------



## Themilkman46290

beanxinh said:


> I'm struggling with the wooden shell. Close 1 vent did tighten up the bass but the trebe became piercing (when the singer raised voice it sound grainy at the top) I tried to lower mid bass (around 100hz) using pEQ to make vocal more clear but it didn't respond very well . With the mx500 shell raise the trebe at 2khz and reduce the bass at around 100hz make vocal more clear and airy.


Well it all depends on the driver, I didn't like the wood shells with titanium 64ohm or the 32 ohm drivers I have, the 500ohm and 600ohm also didn't do so well, but 400ohm are perfect in them, either way, try using different foam, cloth, mesh to cover the holes from the inside, you can also use cotton.
But I guess no one ever uses the search bar on this thread, so if you can't figure out the search bar, you might have troubles with diy anything..... Maybe easier to just buy some allready made stuff, some stores will even put your order together for you


----------



## beanxinh

Themilkman46290 said:


> Well it all depends on the driver, I didn't like the wood shells with titanium 64ohm or the 32 ohm drivers I have, the 500ohm and 600ohm also didn't do so well, but 400ohm are perfect in them, either way, try using different foam, cloth, mesh to cover the holes from the inside, you can also use cotton.
> But I guess no one ever uses the search bar on this thread, so if you can't figure out the search bar, you might have troubles with diy anything..... Maybe easier to just buy some allready made stuff, some stores will even put your order together for you


Thank for your suggestions. BTW putting things together is the easy part trying to tune it into something that I like is much harder even with expensive earbud I have to EQ .
The search bar is not very helpful (or I didn't use the correct keyword) so I guest I have to search manually from first post .


----------



## subwoof3r

furyossa said:


> Before I start, I would like to dedicate this post to Thomas Wilson aka. @HungryPanda, one of the most significant members of this community and a man who loved the good earbud "mods". RIP Thomas.


Are you serious ?? do I missed something?


----------



## Themilkman46290

subwoof3r said:


> Are you serious ?? do I missed something?


Seems we all missed something, did this actually happen? Are we sure?


----------



## SiggyFraud

Themilkman46290 said:


> Seems we all missed something, did this actually happen? Are we sure?


Unfortunately yes. It's been posted by Otto on the Audioreviews FB page. Terrible news.


----------



## subwoof3r

OMG it's real.. https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudsAnonymous/permalink/2516572871937565/
I'm just in a nightmare now, I have NO word..


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Apr 18, 2020)

Yeah, looked it up, man that sucks, ****ing Wuhan virus got him, I think I might quit ordering for a year, maybe 2, I know you guys won't, but I  boycotting Chinese products as much as I can (difficult when everything is made there, but it's possible) I am not mad at the regular Chinese person, but all of there upper class is responsible for what is going on, you would think after the sars virus that started with bat's back in the early 2000's they would stop it, but no, they need to show how cool they are and how much status they have by eating exotic game, they get no punishment, they treat everyone like slaves, and when they take college courses they don't even study because there teachers are scared to fail them or they go abroad and pay there teachers a bribe instead of taking exams (I have watched this when I was taking exams, our Chinese student walked in 30 minutes late, splashed black ink on a paper and walked out, we had to draw a human form and couldn't walk out until it was finished, he literally splashed a drop of black ink and walked out with honours) it's messed up, they have a bunch of under educated gangster like thugs as there ruling class. 
Now we are all trapped inside of our houses, waiting to die, from a virus that there ignorance and selfishness has forced on us, and they have the balls to charge 50 dollars for a box of mask, greedy evil yellow schmucks. 

So yeah, boycott, I have enough drivers, screw it, done sending them my money, from now on, I will only buy used burner phones, and fix all my electronics myself, thank Goodness I am mechanically inclined


----------



## robar

I've seen the bad news as well yesterday  RIP Panda, reading his posts were the main reason I got into this hobby :/



beanxinh said:


> I'm struggling with the wooden shell. Close 1 vent did tighten up the bass but the trebe became piercing (when the singer raised voice it sound grainy at the top) I tried to lower mid bass (around 100hz) using pEQ to make vocal more clear but it didn't respond very well . With the mx500 shell raise the trebe at 2khz and reduce the bass at around 100hz make vocal more clear and airy.


Which wood shell do you have? The 3-vent one? Try drilling more vents! Drill one hole first next to the others (max 1-1.5mm diameter) and see if it improves. Your symptoms seem very typical of shells which doesn't have enough airflow. Closing vents would only make this worse. This is the reason why I ordered the 6-vent variant, to avoid drilling, but its simple to do if you have the tools.


----------



## beanxinh

robar said:


> I've seen the bad news as well yesterday  RIP Panda, reading his posts were the main reason I got into this hobby :/
> 
> 
> Which wood shell do you have? The 3-vent one? Try drilling more vents! Drill one hole first next to the others (max 1-1.5mm diameter) and see if it improves. Your symptoms seem very typical of shells which doesn't have enough airflow. Closing vents would only make this worse. This is the reason why I ordered the 6-vent variant, to avoid drilling, but its simple to do if you have the tools.


Thank I have a small drill. I'll order some drill bit 1mm and try it .


----------



## furyossa (Apr 18, 2020)

beanxinh said:


> Thank I have a small drill. I'll order some drill bit 1mm and try it .


You need to see @robar drill which use for 1.5mm vents. Very powerful tool


robar said:


> I ordered the 6-vent variant, to avoid drilling, but its simple to do if you have the tools


Do you still using "heavy duty" drill? 😉


robar said:


> reading his posts were the main reason I got into this hobby


 This applies to most of us.


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> You need to see @robar drill which use for 1.5mm vents. Very powerful tool
> 
> Do you still using "heavy duty" drill? 😉
> This applies to most of us.


Well, I still don't have any other option  But I ordered the cheap set of hand drill on aliexpress, so hopefully I'll be able to drill smaller diameters as well in the close future. My smallest bit at the moment is 1.5mm, this is why I use it for everything  I would say it's the max diameter that is usable for my purpose, any bigger than this and the regular horseshoe foam wouldn't be able to cover it properly. I guess something around 0.7-1mm should be more ideal for adding vents, it's easier to cover with foam and gives more control. In the meantime, I plan to experiment with enlarging stock vents on the mx500 shell. The 1.5mm drill seems to be ideal for this, I hope it allows me to fine tune the balance in the mids. I also received some cables today, so I'll be able to finish my Qian69 + 19-21 32ohm build soon. I have some ideas to try on the shell before finalizing, but I wanted to wait for the cable so I don't have to open it multiple times.


----------



## beanxinh (Apr 18, 2020)

furyossa said:


> This is the PART 2 for 130ohm Beryllium driver but this time I will explain my mod for "medium" cavity size shell.
> Previous posts *INTRO*, *PART 1*
> *
> 
> ...


Is there any book about air flow and acoustic inside a chamber ? I see there are some books about design speaker so are these the same with earbud ? Thank.


robar said:


> Well, I still don't have any other option  But I ordered the cheap set of hand drill on aliexpress, so hopefully I'll be able to drill smaller diameters as well in the close future. My smallest bit at the moment is 1.5mm, this is why I use it for everything  I would say it's the max diameter that is usable for my purpose, any bigger than this and the regular horseshoe foam wouldn't be able to cover it properly. I guess something around 0.7-1mm should be more ideal for adding vents, it's easier to cover with foam and gives more control. In the meantime, I plan to experiment with enlarging stock vents on the mx500 shell. The 1.5mm drill seems to be ideal for this, I hope it allows me to fine tune the balance in the mids. I also received some cables today, so I'll be able to finish my Qian69 + 19-21 32ohm build soon. I have some ideas to try on the shell before finalizing, but I wanted to wait for the cable so I don't have to open it multiple times.


I have a small hand drill that can fit drill bit from 0.5 to 3mm bit. There are some drill make from a small 12V motor sold for 10$. I might buy it to make thing easier .


----------



## robar (Apr 18, 2020)

beanxinh said:


> Is there any book about air flow and acoustic inside a chamber ? I see there are some books about design speaker so are these the same with earbud ? Thank.
> 
> I have a small hand drill that can fit drill bit from 0.5 to 3mm bit. There are some drill make from a small 12V motor sold for 10$. I might buy it to make thing easier .


That's great, keep us updated on your build  I'm not very familiar with speaker building, but my problem with translating speaker building principles to earbuds is that these devices work in very different contexts. When you make a port on a speaker, the sound waves from the port will directly contribute to the sound, because well, they emit sound in the same room. But the vents on an earbud are directed outwards and not towards your ears, so they have a different role. I think the closest thing to earbuds are open-back headphones. I would assume that you would find much more relevant info by researching that field, there are many headphone diy-ers out there.


----------



## Themilkman46290

I worked in a garage that installed sound systems in cars, we built a lot of boxes, there are a lot of tricks to change sound but some of those tricks work in the opposite way and some work the same. Sound deadening materials reduce some peaks, but depending on the shells and driver they can also remove the "space" from the sound or make the sound too "dark" adding holes can bring up the bass but to many can reduce the bass, stuffing a box with cotton can improve the lows and make it sound more spatious but in earbuds it seems to bring out the highs. 
Alot of tuning is just trial and error


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Alot of tuning is just trial and error


Exactly, that is the essence of this hobby.


----------



## willyboyaudio

gwompki said:


> As well as what I think is a Yuin PK1 type bud:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ori...25.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.267.MKXLvF



Hi guys, I’ve found these drivers in my local marketplace. I can build them for the same price as a pair of Seahf 150 Ohm.
Which one will give better sound? Sound tuning is subjective of course, but which one has better resolution and clarity?
Also, how much would you typically spend on cables and plugs in relation to the drivers cost?
I don’t like braided cables as on the Seahf which is part of the reason why I’m hesitating to get one. 
Thanks guys.


----------



## willyboyaudio (Apr 22, 2020)

robar said:


> I measure by pushing the earbud with foam onto the mic of a Tascam dr-05 field recorder. The diameter of the mic barrel matches the earbud front cover perfectly so I don't need any special adapter.  I feed the signal of the Tascam into a Focusrite 2i2 which is then processed by REW. I made a post about this here with pictures a few months ago, I think you can find it.
> I'm not familiar with your gear, but I can give some general pointers based on my experience. This is my point of view after a lot of reading and experimenting, but this is a controversial topic so others will have different opinions.  So first things first, try to bring the mic and earbud as close as possible, to eliminate any extra stuff which would create unnecessary distortions and resonances (just makes the graph unpredictable and hard to understand). Ideally you don't want anything else just the mic, the earbud and some kind of a platform/surface which lets the earbud front cover to sit in front of the mic. Maybe a small rubber ring or something like that, it depends on the shape of your mic. You need some kind of force that keeps the earbud in position, I use my hands as it's the simplest method and the strength of pushing doesn't really matter in my case, only the alignment. The most important thing is to not make a perfectly sealed environment, the seal should come by compressing the edge of the foam on the earbud front cover. (also, look out for the vents on the shell, don't cover them accidentally). But no matter how you do it, just don't expect perfectly unbiased measurements. My simple and straightforward technique gives pretty consistent and readable results, but it's not free from certain peaks. You definitely have to learn how to read the measurements with a critical eye, and there will be certain amount of guesswork no matter what.
> 
> So treat the earbud measurements more like a relative comparison, if the setup is consistent then you can compare different tunings perfectly. Choose a baseline, like your favorite earbud and use it as a point of reference. I can redo measurements weeks and months apart and the graphs will match. But don't expect it to be perfectly compatible with any other kind of measurements.  You can make educated guesses and compensate in head or even make some rough adjustments in the software, but it becomes speculative.
> ...


Hi robar, well noted with many thanks on the measurements technique. I will try that and adopt that for the equipment that I have.
Regarding the MX500 shell, they are too small for me in terms of diameter. I put a rubber ring around it (Sabia V7, which has the same shell) and with foam they fit snuggly and provides good seal.

BTW I gave away the modded Monk+ to a workmate. He said he was impressed with the clarity. So that was a project well-done, in my book. Thank you all for your assistance and input.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Curious, what is the hardest to drive (lowest sensitivity and/or highest impedance) earbud driver currently available on the market now?


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Curious, what is the hardest to drive (lowest sensitivity and/or highest impedance) earbud driver currently available on the market now?


Diy 600ohm beryllium driver also there is Toneking 600ohm


----------



## willyboyaudio

@robar @subwoof3r 
Friends, I think I’ve also found your favorite drivers in the local marketplace. Is this the 19-21 driver? The markings look similar.
I read a few pages back that @robar simply put them in MX500 shells with standard horseshoe foam on the shell. How is the sound in this configuration? Thanks!


----------



## robar

Here's a new 14.8mm speaker at CKLewis, I think I've seen this in other stores for much more money before. Now it's only 3.9usd. Has anyone tried it? Seems like a decent one, and I would like to build something usable with my 14.8mm shell for a long time. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000930280442.html



willyboyaudio said:


> @robar @subwoof3r
> Friends, I think I’ve also found your favorite drivers in the local marketplace. Is this the 19-21 driver? The markings look similar.
> I read a few pages back that @robar simply put them in MX500 shells with standard horseshoe foam on the shell. How is the sound in this configuration? Thanks!


Wow that looks the same. There are a few variations on aliexpress that are only different by the color of the marking, so we can't be 100% sure which variant is it, but my favorite ones are red too. In my experience, this speaker sounds great in any configuration haha. It depends on the exact type of shell, horseshoe and the quality of snapping (if you don't use glue). If the cover sits loosely than it will sound different, usually flatter and warmer. I cherry picked the best fitting regular black shells because I don't have glue. It sounds slightly v shaped (just a touch, with a bit extra presence on upper mids) with tight deep punchy bass. It gives the feeling of large closed headphones. I ordered my 5th pair a few days ago lol, I got scared from the rising shipping costs. For about 3.75usd, it's a steal, best all rounder I've found so far. 

I would be pretty interested in the steel mesh version, also there is a titanium variation which has purple marking, sadly NSC wants almost 3usd for the shipping so I skipped it so far.


----------



## willyboyaudio

robar said:


> Here's a new 14.8mm speaker at CKLewis, I think I've seen this in other stores for much more money before. Now it's only 3.9usd. Has anyone tried it? Seems like a decent one, and I would like to build something usable with my 14.8mm shell for a long time. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000930280442.html
> 
> 
> Wow that looks the same. There are a few variations on aliexpress that are only different by the color of the marking, so we can't be 100% sure which variant is it, but my favorite ones are red too. In my experience, this speaker sounds great in any configuration haha. It depends on the exact type of shell, horseshoe and the quality of snapping (if you don't use glue). If the cover sits loosely than it will sound different, usually flatter and warmer. I cherry picked the best fitting regular black shells because I don't have glue. It sounds slightly v shaped (just a touch, with a bit extra presence on upper mids) with tight deep punchy bass. It gives the feeling of large closed headphones. I ordered my 5th pair a few days ago lol, I got scared from the rising shipping costs. For about 3.75usd, it's a steal, best all rounder I've found so far.
> ...


I am excited already. Interestingly the seller’s description mentions ‘bass’ and ‘sound stage’ - sounds about right, no?
I’ve also read carefully your post about the different MX500 shells, and now I’m optimistic I can get the better one.
Does cable matter much in your experience?
Many thanks.

P.S. I looked carefully the seller’s photo and it matches the one below. The two dimples on the solder pad is unique, not many (at least not all) drivers have those. 


SiggyFraud said:


>


----------



## robar (Apr 22, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> I am excited already. Interestingly the seller’s description mentions ‘bass’ and ‘sound stage’ - sounds about right, no?
> I’ve also read carefully your post about the different MX500 shells, and now I’m optimistic I can get the better one.
> Does cable matter much in your experience?
> Many thanks.
> ...


I think this is it, at NSC it's called "heavy bass"  There is a "balanced" and a "clear" version as well with different colored dots, but I haven't tried those. I'm not an expert at cables, I only use cheap ones from aliexpress. What I can say is that as long as the cable is not very thick, it shouldn't really matter much in my opinion. The snapping and the positioning of the tuning foam does.You can go down the rabbit hole of cables if you want, I'm not interested personally. For me it's more of a functional and decorative aspect, I won't pay a fortune for some minor theoretical improvement. (but again, I have no experience with those high-end cables)

By the way I received two cables a few days ago, here's a quick impression:

I had high hopes with this one, but it is really disappointing. Maybe I got a lemon who knows. It's very stiff and thick, plus it makes very annoying stethoscope effect if I touch it. (the stiff cable transmits vibrations too much) I wouldn't recommend it at all for earbuds, maybe it's ok for headphones or something. The knot is so big that the speaker can't fit in many shells, and I think this is one of the few instances where the knot actually has a noticeable impact on sound. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000449129490.html?

I really like this one, it looks great and it's pretty soft. I can totally recommend this one. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32818428493.html


----------



## furyossa

willyboyaudio said:


> Does cable matter much in your experience?


Most of these drivers lacking detail in the treble, so silver-plated copper is a good choice or a bit expensive pure silver cable. If you prefer warm sound, pure copper
is a way to go. Of course, purity of copper is also an important factor but then the price is a little higher.


----------



## assassin10000

assassin10000 said:


> B40 uses a larger pk style shell/driver than the typical yuin pk shell.
> 
> I sold a b40 to someone that needed to replace a yuin pk1 housing that was damaged, and the driver/cover would not fit. The housing was too large.





golov17 said:


>



@robar if you still have those b40 shells laying around, have you tried to see if a 15.4mm driver fits them? Looks like the b40 has a pk shaped shell, but doesn't use 14.8mm drivers like the other pk shells.

So you may be able to use your favorite driver on them .


----------



## robar (Apr 22, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> @robar if you still have those b40 shells laying around, have you tried to see if a 15.4mm driver fits them? Looks like the b40 has a pk shaped shell, but doesn't use 14.8mm drivers like the other pk shells.
> 
> So you may be able to use your favorite driver on them .


Thanks for the tip, but nope, it's kind of 14.8mm but of a special shape, I couldnt fit anything else on the shells. I tried every combination, I have several 15mm shells/speakers as well and nothing matches anything lol. It's either too large or too small, zero friction.

I could fit its speakers on the Faaeal Z-sound shell though (but not any other decent 14.8mm shells) Sadly the speakers are in a bad shape and not really useable at this point. I would really like something decent on the Z-sound and I know that regular pk-covers are too small for it. (It came with steel mesh originally) This cklewis speakers have a similar front cover so I kind of hope they would be compatible. (I have regular pk shell as a backup)


----------



## willyboyaudio (Apr 22, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Most of these drivers lacking detail in the treble, so silver-plated copper is a good choice or a bit expensive pure silver cable. If you prefer warm sound, pure copper
> is a way to go. Of course, purity of copper is also an important factor but then the price is a little higher.


Thank you for your input, really appreciate it.



robar said:


> I think this is it, at NSC it's called "heavy bass"  There is a "balanced" and a "clear" version as well with different colored dots, but I haven't tried those. I'm not an expert at cables, I only use cheap ones from aliexpress. What I can say is that as long as the cable is not very thick, it shouldn't really matter much in my opinion. The snapping and the positioning of the tuning foam does. You can go down the rabbit hole of cables if you want, I'm not interested personally. For me it's more of a functional and decorative aspect, I won't pay a fortune for some minor theoretical improvement. (but again, I have no experience with those high-end cables)
> 
> By the way I received two cables a few days ago, here's a quick impression:
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input, robar. I will see what I can find in the local market.
Regarding positioning of tuning foam, with the stem pointing downward, the open end of the horseshoe should be on the upper side, right? I ask because I just realized all my MX500 shells are the 'bundled' type, that have even spacing on top and bottom. I believe the better ones have slightly different spacing, right?

Update: Placed an order for a pair of what's supposed to be the 19-21 drivers


----------



## robar

willyboyaudio said:


> Thank you for your input, really appreciate it.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your input, robar. I will see what I can find in the local market.
> ...


Yes, you cant really put it the other way around honestly   I wouldnt say the bundled type is worse, its just different. Snapping is much more consistent on the bundled one, but the sound is flatter with less bass. I'll experiment with them more in the future, try some things to bring the bass more forward. Fingers crossed for your purchase!


----------



## willyboyaudio

robar said:


> Yes, you cant really put it the other way around honestly   I wouldnt say the bundled type is worse, its just different. Snapping is much more consistent on the bundled one, but the sound is flatter with less bass. I'll experiment with them more in the future, try some things to bring the bass more forward. Fingers crossed for your purchase!



Sure enough..the red dot is sold out.. I'm asking them when it will be back in stock..
In the meantime, they have this turquoise dot hehehe.. Do you recognize this one? It was described as 'high resolution' 
Sorry for the many questions, and thanks for the generosity in sharing your experience.


----------



## robar (Apr 23, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> Sure enough..the red dot is sold out.. I'm asking them when it will be back in stock..
> In the meantime, they have this turquoise dot hehehe.. Do you recognize this one? It was described as 'high resolution'
> Sorry for the many questions, and thanks for the generosity in sharing your experience.


You're welcome  It looks like the 3-way balanced version, I haven't tried those yet. If you check out NSC store on aliexpress, they have all kinds of variations, it could be helpful for you to identify the different versions. I'm on the phone and I can't find a way to share links from the app, but I posted them earlier here


----------



## beanxinh

Ok I've just got my 1mm drill and drilled 2 hole on the shell (I'm still keep the middle hole blocked with Glue). The mid bass is less boomy now and the trebe is less gainy. Look like I go in the right direction . Will experiment more to see how it going.
Also I i'm going to buy a IEC711 ear simulator to take frequency response chart but I heard that they are not very accurate with earbud. Do you guy have any experience with it? Thanks.
https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/de...4-1671087311.13.6f0c7b56Wlwp6Y&id=37135316408


----------



## willyboyaudio (Apr 29, 2020)

I got around to learning how to measure earbuds. I use an adaptor that placed the tip of the mic in the center, that also has some damping foam around to absorb the resonances, and allow ‘mating’ with the earbud face. 






My take on the graphs:
The bare 'buds of course lays the foundation here. The fuzzy foam boosted the 50-80Hz range by 3-4dB and reduced the peak at 2.2kHz by 3dB. Treble extension remains unchanged. 
The full foam provides a noticeably 'flatter' graph. Bass and mid are boosted by a large margin, and while the character of the mid-high and treble is similar to the bare 'buds, it's down by 3-8dB. High treble is cut by a lot, I think this kills down a lot of 'airy' and 'sparkle' in the sound.
The donut foam is interesting. I actually redone the measurements from the beginning since the donut foam gives such a high SPL. The mic position and signal level is unchanged. Could it be the better 'seal' that caused the boost in SPL? Mid-high and treble mimics the bare and fuzzy foam graphs, with some cut around 2kHz and 5.5kHz.
I am curious how the fuzzy foam with a donut around it will sound. I like the seal that this configuration gives, and it saves me the itch caused by the fuzzy foam.

Questions for the pros here: 
1. Should I change the mic position and/or 'normalize' the signal level to make sure a balanced reading across? I think the bare 'buds was around -33dB reading on my REW with my setup.

Some notes and disclaimers:
1. This is my first attempt and this is purely for my personal research.
2. All foam; fuzzy, full, and donut are purchased from TrigRain shop, I think many here are familiar with their products, hopefully that is useful to you guys who want to replicate the tuning of different foams.
3. I am not affiliated with Elibuds, Dayton Audio, or TrigRain. I just use their products and I like them, but this is also not a promotion and I do not get a kickback for doing this LOL.
4. I did not change the volume or position/placement of the mic between measurements. 

Any comments or input on my methodology, conclusion, or anything else please feel free to share. Thank you!


----------



## GREQ

willyboyaudio said:


> I got around to learning how to measure earbuds. I use an adaptor that placed the tip of the mic in the center, that also has some damping foam around to absorb the resonances, and allow ‘mating’ with the earbud face.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would use a slightly larger and more conical-shaped adaptor to get a slightly tighter fit.
Basically something that allows the bud to sit in place without the user holding it there by hand, and that at the same time gives a better seal.
Looking at those graphs, I'm almost certain you're losing sub-bass volume/response due to a poor fit, rather than that being the actual measurement of the bud.

Also the excessive bump around 2K seems to be an artefact of the measuring tool. 
It's never that pronounced on my miniDSP EARS measurements (which is obviously not a perfect tool either, but it looks excessive to me).
But I don't know if there's a good way of safely reducing that. Maybe change the adapter materials to different types of foam/felt etc and see if something emulates human skin or an ear canal a bit better.
If there's no logical/sane method of reducing that bump, I would just leave in a disclaimer with every graph mentioning that it's likely an artefact of the tools, like how almost all closed-back-headphone miniDSP EARS graphs have a dip around 4Khz.

However, overall I would say you've got the tools and methodology pretty much down already.
Just a few minor tweaks left to get truly consistent results - especially a hands-free mounting system would be ideal.


----------



## robar (Apr 29, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> I got around to learning how to measure earbuds. I use an adaptor that placed the tip of the mic in the center, that also has some damping foam around to absorb the resonances, and allow ‘mating’ with the earbud face.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really nice measurements, well done! From these variations, the donut foam graph looks the most useful for me, maybe you could also try regular full foam. I use trig rain donuts as well but their full foam is almost unusable for me, ruins the treble and the details in my experience. I would certainly choose one of the more balanced kind of foam and stick to it for measurements, these differences above are specific to the measurement device anyway.

Your graphs look quite similar to mine, except for the valley in the upper mids (between 2-5khz) where mine produces a smooth upper arch, but I know it's over-represented compared to my subjective listening (the qian25 below sounds close to flat) so I compensate in my head. I guess yours is more realistic, but that sudden bump can be misleading a bit. Reminds me of csglinux's measurements, he is in the earbuds-roundup topic, maybe you could contact him for more advice, he probably uses something similar. Do you have other cheap earbuds, like vido, qian series, ry4s ue etc?  I know that direct comparison will never be realistic, but I would be very interested in how your rig would measure them. 

For tuning purposes, I wouldn't alter the levels  if the graphs are from the same earbud with the same input volume. I find it much more useful to see exactly how the response changes relatively. If I compare two different earbuds, I usually align them at 1Khz for comparison. (via controls button on top right corner) I usually do several measurements with 1 sweep (256k) and average them (I delete failed/misaligned measurements before) I set the limits of the chart for a nice balanced graph that is easier to read.

I don't really post my measurements because the 2-5khz bump can confuse people and they try to read it at face value (and there are two small peaks from my rig at 250hz and 1250hz that I'm lazy to learn how to compensate out) I'm not bothered by them but I have to point those out every time if I share a graph somewhere. If I do share a graph I usually apply a really small smoothing, something like 1/48 or 1/24, just to make the lines cleaner.

Here's an example, one of my favorite builds with the Titanium 64 speaker, compared to my baseline Qian25 blue which is a neutral, tight, slightly bright earbud. As you can see the T64 has vastly superior bass extension (which is even slightly reduced in this tuning), with well controlled bass and lower mids.The bass only starts to grow below 200hz, peaking below 100hz, just as I like. The slightly emphasized upper mids around 2khz balance out the heavy hitting bass and somewhat soft treble quite nicely. The low treble around 6-7khz is at a natural level, not artificially brightened like with most cheap earbuds. Overall this is my current favorite in terms of tuning, I have some work to do with my 19-21 builds.


For another interesting comparison, here's the Faaeal Rosemary, which is also a darkish and bassy earbud, but this has the typical sloppy, warm, boomy lower half and dark upper mids. (but among the better controlled ones) Even with the extra boost, the extension is far away from the Titanium.


Here's another interesting one: Titanium vs white vido. Vido is a typical v-shaped bud with sucked out low-mids which crate an over-represented upper half thus making the sound grainy.  The darkness of the vido comes from the low quality speaker it has, with the same graph an emx500 sounds really sharp and bright. This is a kind of comparison where I wouldn't necessarily align at 1khz for presentation, because the difference is so big that it can be misleading. Aligning at 2khz would make a more realistic impression in this case, but that is not perfect either. For tuning I always align at 1khz because I check everything relative to it anyway. Maybe normalizing would be the best way in this case for display purposes, but I don't know how to do that in REW. So this is certainly up for personal preference.
Here's aligned at 1khz

Here's the same thing but aligned at 2khz


----------



## willyboyaudio (Apr 30, 2020)

GREQ said:


> I would use a slightly larger and more conical-shaped adaptor to get a slightly tighter fit.
> Basically something that allows the bud to sit in place without the user holding it there by hand, and that at the same time gives a better seal.
> Looking at those graphs, I'm almost certain you're losing sub-bass volume/response due to a poor fit, rather than that being the actual measurement of the bud.
> 
> ...


Hi GREQ, thank you for your input. I immediately applied your suggestion and managed to flare the lip a little bit to allow better seal.
I agree that the bump at 2kHz is too much, maybe it's the plastic face of the bud reflecting sound waves. Do we want the tip of the mic to touch the face of the bud, or how many mm is ideal between them?
Thanks so much.


----------



## willyboyaudio (Apr 29, 2020)

robar said:


> Really nice measurements, well done! From these variations, the donut foam graph looks the most useful for me, maybe you could also try regular full foam. I use trig rain donuts as well but their full foam is almost unusable for me, ruins the treble and the details in my experience. I would certainly choose one of the more balanced kind of foam and stick to it for measurements, these differences above are specific to the measurement device anyway.
> 
> Your graphs look quite similar to mine, except for the valley in the upper mids (between 2-5khz) where mine produces a smooth upper arch, but I know it's over-represented compared to my subjective listening (the qian25 below sounds close to flat) so I compensate in my head. I guess yours is more realistic, but that sudden bump can be misleading a bit. Reminds me of csglinux's measurements, he is in the earbuds-roundup topic, maybe you could contact him for more advice, he probably uses something similar. Do you have other cheap earbuds, like vido, qian series, ry4s ue etc?  I know that direct comparison will never be realistic, but I would be very interested in how your rig would measure them.
> 
> ...


Hi robar, thanks very much for your inspiration as well. You brought a fine point of 'aligning' the levels at 1kHz. It does make them easier to compare. Sorry I mistype it 'normalizing' on the first graph, this is the same one from the previous post, just aligned at 1kHz. I modified the mounting a little bit to allow hands-free measurement, and came with the the second graph. In real life, subjectively, the full foam does not sound as dark as the graph would suggest. I'm trying to standardize my method now: (1) have a SPL 50dB scale, (2) align 1kHz at 50dB, I think they make it much nicer to see and easier to interpret.


----------



## GREQ

willyboyaudio said:


> Hi robar, thanks very much for your inspiration as well. You brought a fine point of 'aligning' the levels at 1kHz. It does make them easier to compare. Sorry I mistype it 'normalizing' on the first graph, this is the same one from the previous post, just aligned at 1kHz. I modified the mounting a little bit to allow hands-free measurement, and came with the the second graph. In real life, subjectively, the full foam does not sound as dark as the graph would suggest. I'm trying to standardize my method now: (1) have a SPL 50dB scale, (2) align 1kHz at 50dB, I think they make it much nicer to see and easier to interpret.


It's actually more common to align the graphs at 300hz for some reason.
You might notice that's been the common practice in other places.


----------



## willyboyaudio

@GREQ I haven't noticed that, but thank you for sharing. I will make it a practice. Appreciate it.


----------



## SiggyFraud (Apr 30, 2020)

How can I check, with 100% certainty, that I soldered the wires to a driver correctly, i.e. in phase, without reversing polarity? I followed the colour coding on wires and the driver, tried all the popular test tracks and websites, but I'm still not sure I got it right. I know I can use a multimeter, but how exactly would I go about that?
Will appreciate any kind of help, as it drives me crazy.


----------



## SiggyFraud

One more question. There's a definite humming/buzzing sound coming from one of the earbuds in a pair I just put together. It gets louder when I turn the volume up. Kind of like driver flex in an IEM, just more buzzy than crinkly, if it makes any sense.
What could be the reason? Is it something I did during soldering/assembly, or could it be a faulty driver?


----------



## GREQ

SiggyFraud said:


> One more question. There's a definite humming/buzzing sound coming from one of the earbuds in a pair I just put together. It gets louder when I turn the volume up. Kind of like driver flex in an IEM, just more buzzy than crinkly, if it makes any sense.
> What could be the reason? Is it something I did during soldering/assembly, or could it be a faulty driver?


Sounds like the driver is creased.
The usual advice around here is to put the bud around your lips and gently suck on it to pull out all the dents.
Worked for me once.
Sounds scary... sounds audibly scarier when doing it, but worked.


----------



## SiggyFraud

GREQ said:


> Sounds like the driver is creased.
> The usual advice around here is to put the bud around your lips and gently suck on it to pull out all the dents.
> Worked for me once.
> Sounds scary... sounds audibly scarier when doing it, but worked.


Wow, it worked! I do remember reading about folks sucking on their earbuds in this thread or another, but I always attributed it to some weird audiophile fetish 
In all seriousness though, thanks a ton. One less thing to be annoyed by.


----------



## robar (Apr 30, 2020)

SiggyFraud said:


> How can I check, with 100% certainty, that I soldered the wires to a driver correctly, i.e. in phase, without reversing polarity? I followed the colour coding on wires and the driver, tried all the popular test tracks and websites, but I'm still not sure I got it right. I know I can use a multimeter, but how exactly would I go about that?
> Will appreciate any kind of help, as it drives me crazy.


I use this video all the time, right after soldering, before assembly. The second half shows polarity:



The buzzing can come from a loose solder joint, a broken cable or a faulty speaker, you have to investigate out. I usually put the speaker to my ears before snapping it onto the shell, and listen to something while I move the cable around with my other hand. This can filter out some of the cable/solder related problems. If that doesn't work, you could try a different cable or speaker to test where the problem comes from. If nothing else works you can try the sucking method (I see your problem is solved in the meantime, forgot to turn pages  )


----------



## assassin10000

New 14.8mm drivers, shells and MMCX (updated design, protected center pin) all showed up finally.






Unfortunately I'm currently unable to use these shells. They don't fit 14.80mm drivers, they measure 15.00mm (+/- .02mm). 





The covers included are larger as well, possibly like the B40's. 

I'm not willing to try and transplant the drivers across covers unless I absolutely have to. Gonna have to try and find a good source for PK shells.


----------



## DBaldock9

I've had good service, getting both PK and MX500 style shells from DIY Earphone Tribe store -
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2046553820.html


----------



## assassin10000

DBaldock9 said:


> I've had good service, getting both PK and MX500 style shells from DIY Earphone Tribe store -
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2046553820.html



Yeah, they're good. I've bought from them a few times now. They just don't have their PK shells in black, they've been out of stock for 3-4 months.


----------



## robar

assassin10000 said:


> New 14.8mm drivers, shells and MMCX (updated design, protected center pin) all showed up finally.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think steel mesh covers are not meant to be used with PK shells. I have both regular and B40 type of pk shells and none of them snap on my salvaged steel mesh speakers. They are just too different, the regular pk is meant for the thin plastic cover like PK2, the B40 needs the thicker type. 

Try bell shaped shells like Faaeal Z-sound or the metal ones sold in several shops. Or any other shell that uses steel mesh by default, I'm not that familiar with what else is out there in terms of 14.8mm but I'm sure you can find other compatible parts.


----------



## assassin10000 (May 10, 2020)

robar said:


> I think steel mesh covers are not meant to be used with PK shells. I have both regular and B40 type of pk shells and none of them snap on my salvaged steel mesh speakers. They are just too different, the regular pk is meant for the thin plastic cover like PK2, the B40 needs the thicker type.
> 
> Try bell shaped shells like Faaeal Z-sound or the metal ones sold in several shops. Or any other shell that uses steel mesh by default, I'm not that familiar with what else is out there in terms of 14.8mm but I'm sure you can find other compatible parts.



I would probably agree if my prior PK shell purchases had not fit fine. The redfilm PK1 driver fit the plastic pk shell I MMCX modded fine. As did the wire mesh driver. I may remove the pk1 driver to try these out.





The other metal shells I ordered previously had to altered to fit the pk1 and sr2 drivers I ordered.




Funny that you mentioned the Z-sounds, as I already have one in the mail to me . They're a plastic housing, so we'll see.

I've also been looking at these vjjb c1s buds.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32276414240.html


----------



## robar

assassin10000 said:


> I would probably agree if my prior PK shell purchases had not fit fine. The redfilm PK1 driver fit the plastic pk shell I MMCX modded fine. As did the wire mesh driver. I may remove the pk1 driver to try these out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wire mesh is a different thing, the shape and size of the plastic rim is different  I never tried to build with those personally, but I have a Qian39 so I can compare with others from outside. Z-sound has steel mesh cover fortunately, and mine was very easy to open, so let's hope you will be lucky with that  Its speaker is similarly not compatible with other 14.8mm shells, but it's definitely a 14.8mm speaker. I could snap on the B40 speaker on that shell by the way, fits tightly. The shell needs additional venting to smooth out the midrange, but otherwise it's a comfortable and good looking shell. I still need to buy a decent speaker for it, will do in the future (probably try the new 32ohm one from cklewis).


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> I would probably agree if my prior PK shell purchases had not fit fine. The redfilm PK1 driver fit the plastic pk shell I MMCX modded fine. As did the wire mesh driver. I may remove the pk1 driver to try these out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For VJJB C1S shell I tried the same approach as for Beryllium 130ohm https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15564605
MMCX mod is not so good because MMCX connector takes up a lot of space in this little shell. After some testing with PK1 (red coat) driver 
I came up with a better result using the DOCOMO shell and Furukawa cable. Right now I placed PK2 driver in VJJB C1S aluminum shell.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> For VJJB C1S shell I tried the same approach as for Beryllium 130ohm https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15564605
> MMCX mod is not so good because MMCX connector takes up a lot of space in this little shell. After some testing with PK1 (red coat) driver
> I came up with a better result using the DOCOMO shell and Furukawa cable. Right now I placed PK2 driver in VJJB C1S aluminum shell.



Cool. At least you confirm the pk1 red driver fits .


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Cool. At least you confirm the pk1 red driver fits .


Yup. This is the only metal shell that I found for PK drivers. I suggest to drill back vent and connect with silver-plated or pure silver cable


----------



## assassin10000 (May 11, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Yup. This is the only metal shell that I found for PK drivers. I suggest to drill back vent and connect with silver-plated or pure silver cable



Do you know the size or could you measure the size of the hole where the cable inserts?


Also found these, trying to find out the driver size. Mrice E100A


----------



## robar (May 11, 2020)

These small bell-shaped shells look nice, I wanted something like a Bell LB for a while. It's sad we can't buy shells like that separately for a good price. The Mrice you posted is quite cheap as well, for less than 5usd it's quite affordable even for the shell itself. I'm a bit concerned that it might utilize the "grey zone 15mm" standard which doesn't fit any generic speakers we can buy, I have a bunch of those sitting in a box already. But if it works with standard speakers then it's a great find for modding! 

By the way, here is a nice looking 14.8mm metal shell, does anyone know which cover would fit with it? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000220132187.html

If I recall correctly, those cheapo bell-shaped earpod-style metal buds can be used with PK speakers, but the stem falls out easily and additional vents are necessary, so not very ideal. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32894965305.html

Also, switching to 15.4mm land, has anyone tried to use Headroom MS16 shell for DIY builds? I like the look and form factor of it, probably the stock speaker has to be destroyed, but for 4.5usd it's not that big of a deal. I guess the stem is just cheaply glued in there so that's an area that would need some kind of reinforcement. With drill mods, maybe even the RY04 shell could be saved.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Do you know the size or could you measure the size of the hole where the cable inserts?
> 
> 
> Also found these, trying to find out the driver size. Mrice E100A


The size of cable hole is optimal to pass standard mmcx connector. Probably is the same on E100A. Is this metal shell on E100A or plastic?


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> These small bell-shaped shells look nice, I wanted something like a Bell LB for a while. It's sad we can't buy shells like that separately for a good price. The Mrice you posted is quite cheap as well, for less than 5usd it's quite affordable even for the shell itself. I'm a bit concerned that it might utilize the "grey zone 15mm" standard which doesn't fit any generic speakers we can buy, I have a bunch of those sitting in a box already. But if it works with standard speakers then it's a great find for modding!
> 
> By the way, here is a nice looking 14.8mm metal shell, does anyone know which cover would fit with it? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000220132187.html
> 
> ...


TOPK earbuds looks nice. You can always replace metal steam with rubber one like this.
I use some spare rubber tails for plugs.





Read this post for MS16


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> TOPK earbuds looks nice. You can always replace metal steam with rubber one like this.
> I use some spare rubber tails for plugs.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks I'll look into these rubber tails! Maybe even the rubber stems that come with wood shells could be used with a bit more drilling. Could you elaborate a bit more on the MS16 shell? I'm not sure how to read the illustration. Do you have a picture? I'll grab the topk shell from the box and take some pics if you're interested. I only have dead SR2 speakers so I cant comment about the sound much, probably needs vents on the back. The original speaker had to be destroyed in order to free up the shell


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Thanks I'll look into these rubber tails! Maybe even the rubber stems that come with wood shells could be used with a bit more drilling. Could you elaborate a bit more on the MS16 shell? I'm not sure how to read the illustration. Do you have a picture? I'll grab the topk shell from the box and take some pics if you're interested. I only have dead SR2 speakers so I cant comment about the sound much, probably needs vents on the back. The original speaker had to be destroyed in order to free up the shell







On the left you can see inside of the original shell. This cascading profile muffles the sound. On the right is modded shell. I used file tool to trim this "staircase" shape but 
but I didn't get much open sound. It's not worth it


----------



## robar (May 11, 2020)

@furyossa  Thanks, probably I'll skip that one then! But for some reason the ms16 always come back to intrigue me, no matter how many times I was told that it's not worth it haha. Maybe I have to experience it for myself to finally get peace lol.
I really hope the shells I ordered from NSC will arrive soon, I really cant wait to build some new stuff with alternative shells.

Here is the topk shell, it's very simple and the back grille is just decoration, so almost no airflow to the outside by default. The inside surface is smooth. I put two different kinds of covers on them which fit well. A bit glue would be necessary, because there is no snap, only friction, but overall the diameter is really close. One of the stems came loose, probably some glue would fix it as well. I'm not sure what potential these have (if any), but for about 3usd sale price it can be a nice little project to explore.
I had to completely destroy the original speaker, literally tearing apart the cover with screwdriver and utility knife 

This is a dead speaker from Chitty's SR2 by the way, the other one was salvaged from a mobile phone bud. Both are 14.8mm I suppose. Cable is from a white vido just for reference.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> @furyossa  Thanks, probably I'll skip that one then! But for some reason the ms16 always come back to intrigue me, no matter how many times I was told that it's not worth it haha. Maybe I have to experience it for myself to finally get peace lol.
> I really hope the shells I ordered from NSC will arrive soon, I really cant wait to build some new stuff with alternative shells.
> 
> Here is the topk shell, it's very simple and the back grille is just decoration, so almost no airflow to the outside by default. The inside surface is smooth. I put two different kinds of covers on them which fit well. A bit glue would be necessary, because there is no snap, only friction, but overall the diameter is really close. One of the stems came loose, probably some glue would fix it as well. I'm not sure what potential these have (if any), but for about 3usd sale price it can be a nice little project to explore.
> ...







I bought ms16  because I thought it was a similar shell as the HE150pro model but I was wrong. This shell block back sound wave and airflow are very bad.
Believe me, skip this one. BGVP DX5 has a similar problem. DX5 has DLC driver but when the inner cavity is bad then even a good driver sounds bad.




Shell is beautiful. I can't believe that vent is fake.  This is my favorite shape of the shell because it provides comfort and good airflow, with the vent of course.
Try to remove back grille without damage with needle and tweezers. Use "heavy-duty" thing and drill hole (1.5mm is good) and put back grill or try rivet maybe.
You can try shrink tube over the meta stems in the upper area which goes inside shell holes for a better sealing.


----------



## assassin10000 (May 11, 2020)

robar said:


> These small bell-shaped shells look nice, I wanted something like a Bell LB for a while. It's sad we can't buy shells like that separately for a good price. The Mrice you posted is quite cheap as well, for less than 5usd it's quite affordable even for the shell itself. I'm a bit concerned that it might utilize the "grey zone 15mm" standard which doesn't fit any generic speakers we can buy, I have a bunch of those sitting in a box already. But if it works with standard speakers then it's a great find for modding!
> 
> By the way, here is a nice looking 14.8mm metal shell, does anyone know which cover would fit with it? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000220132187.html
> 
> ...



Well it may be worth a shot. Not sure how accurate their measurement was lol.


Those metal shells may require transplanting drivers into the cover provided.




furyossa said:


> The size of cable hole is optimal to pass standard mmcx connector. Probably is the same on E100A. Is this metal shell on E100A or plastic?



The smaller M3 or the larger M4 one?


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Well it may be worth a shot. Not sure how accurate their measurement was lol.
> 
> 
> Those metal shells may require transplanting drivers into the cover provided.
> ...


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000090574521.html


----------



## assassin10000 (May 11, 2020)

furyossa said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000090574521.html



M3 thread ones, the smaller size . Thanks.


----------



## robar (May 11, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I bought ms16  because I thought it was a similar shell as the HE150pro model but I was wrong. This shell block back sound wave and airflow are very bad.
> Believe me, skip this one. BGVP DX5 has a similar problem. DX5 has DLC driver but when the inner cavity is bad then even a good driver sounds bad.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, very interesting! I was planning to build something with the Topk more than half a year now, I just don't have proper speakers sadly. But I have glue and more drills on the way so I'll have the proper tools at last. I'm not really comfortable with buying a big set of PK2 speakers blindly, with owning only 2-3 very so-so shells that might be compatible. If I could buy only 1-2 pairs I would probably order right away.

However I'm more and more intrigued by this new design, which externally looks like a better implementation of the B40 speaker. This has twice as much, and larger “slits” or “bass vents” compared to the B40 which has only a very tiny one. I usually give more faith to new models anyway, I generally have good experience with them. I suppose this should be something similar to N50/N52 speakers, which is already a significant improvement over the B40 or any other cheap 14.8mm earbud I've heard. Or at the very least, the same as B40 just with more bass lol. I think this type of cover will be compatible with the 1-vent PK shell (like the sets of 5 sold on Ali, or maybe even the B40) and the Faaeal Z-sound shell, but not the original PK or other smaller shells that are built for PK2-type speakers.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000930280442.html (by the way it's only 3.9usd if you follow the store)

And here is my pic of the B40 speaker from last year
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/10377194_thumb.jpg

Shipping is really slow and my country's postal service is quite messed up at the moment so I'll wait with additional orders. Anyone tried the new 32ohm titanium speakers by the way? Like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000741710087.html


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> Thanks, very interesting! I was planning to build something with the Topk more than half a year now, I just don't have proper speakers sadly. But I have glue and more drills on the way so I'll have the proper tools at last. I'm not really comfortable with buying a big set of PK2 speakers blindly, with owning only 2-3 very so-so shells that might be compatible. If I could buy only 1-2 pairs I would probably order right away.
> 
> However I'm more and more intrigued by this new design, which externally looks like a better implementation of the B40 speaker. This has twice as much, and larger “slits” or “bass vents” compared to the B40 which has only a very tiny one. I usually give more faith to new models anyway, I generally have good experience with them. I suppose this should be something similar to N50/N52 speakers, which is already a significant improvement over the B40 or any other cheap 14.8mm earbud I've heard. Or at the very least, the same as B40 just with more bass lol. I think this type of cover will be compatible with the 1-vent PK shell (like the sets of 5 sold on Ali, or maybe even the B40) and the Faaeal Z-sound shell, but not the original PK or other smaller shells that are built for PK2-type speakers.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000930280442.html (by the way it's only 3.9usd if you follow the store)
> ...



Yeah, those look almost identical to the b40 drivers. Except the dot is on the opposite side.

I would say those are the same housing and face as the 15mm shells. Like the ones I just got.
https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/11232405.jpg



I just checked fitment of 3 of 4 14.8mm drivers I have on hand against those 15mm shells. Looks like the chitty 32ohm wire mesh drivers will fit. With some minor modification, I'll need to file or sand down the opening so there isn't an air gap.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32230887418.html


----------



## furyossa (May 11, 2020)

robar said:


> Thanks, very interesting! I was planning to build something with the Topk more than half a year now, I just don't have proper speakers sadly. But I have glue and more drills on the way so I'll have the proper tools at last. I'm not really comfortable with buying a big set of PK2 speakers blindly, with owning only 2-3 very so-so shells that might be compatible. If I could buy only 1-2 pairs I would probably order right away.
> 
> However I'm more and more intrigued by this new design, which externally looks like a better implementation of the B40 speaker. This has twice as much, and larger “slits” or “bass vents” compared to the B40 which has only a very tiny one. I usually give more faith to new models anyway, I generally have good experience with them. I suppose this should be something similar to N50/N52 speakers, which is already a significant improvement over the B40 or any other cheap 14.8mm earbud I've heard. Or at the very least, the same as B40 just with more bass lol. I think this type of cover will be compatible with the 1-vent PK shell (like the sets of 5 sold on Ali, or maybe even the B40) and the Faaeal Z-sound shell, but not the original PK or other smaller shells that are built for PK2-type speakers.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000930280442.html (by the way it's only 3.9usd if you follow the store)
> ...


My last order was in late December, but a few things did not arrive at all.
Right now Ali does not deliver most goods to my country. That PK driver currently costs $3.9+ $142 via DHL.
I'll wait for the summer sale, maybe things will go back to normal.
I plan to order Seahf 150ohm, HE150 for modding, some 10mm and 8mm drivers for small earbuds and some custom parts for DIY cables.
In the meantime, Sony MDR-570LP has caught my attention a lot. An ideal pair for MMCX mod  I hope Sony didn't use glue from RY Audio Store on this model 

If you get the chance to catch a discount, try to buy a PK1 red coat. For me this currently the best DIY 14.8 driver on Ali.
It is interesting that it really behaves better in a plastic shell than in a metal one, probably because of Docomo shells. Who knows


----------



## robar (May 11, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Yeah, those look almost identical to the b40 drivers. Except the dot is on the opposite side.
> 
> I would say those are the same housing and face as the 15mm shells. Like the ones I just got.
> https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/11232405.jpg
> ...


Interesting! Yes I noticed that in the product description those speakers are next to the 1-vent PK shells, so those will definitely work together.
Compared to the B40, the vents ("notches" in the metal part, at the edges) on this speaker are bigger and also there is two instead of one, so I think the sound should have more bass and more energy.

But I would definitely not call these or the 1-vent PK shells 15mm, because I do have real ~15mm earbuds and their covers are way too big even for the B40 shell, completely different stuff.
In this new vs old PK situation, I think that only the shape of the cover/shell is different, this new design needs a deeper cover with much more friction, while the more traditional type only needs a small groove.

Usually the cheapest generic buds uses the "grey zone diameter", I take pics if you're interested. For me "grey zone" or ~15mm is a particular case of an earbud, where it's physically impossible to put any 14.8mm speaker on the shell, and similarly impossible to put the earbud's speaker on a 15.4mm shell. Sometimes these are explicitly listed as 15mm, this is why I call them that way. But it's really confusing and honestly not worth it to investigate imho 

The diameter refers to the raw speakers's size (membrane) and not the cover's, this is why different covers not match up even if the speakers are listed as 14.8mm. But you could probably interchange the speakers because the inner groove that keeps the driver inside is the same. This compatibility thing is especially confusing at 14.8mm because the covers and shells have very big variation and they mostly rely on friction only (not snapping),so the actual shape matter much more, while 15.4mm is much more standardized.

EDIT: So I tried to put the Z-sound speaker (steel mesh 14.8mm) on a bunch of different shells, and they snap on to the traditional PK (salvaged from Chitty's SR2 16ohm earbud) but too shallow for the B40. The funny thing is, that the B40 cover snaps on to the Z-sound shell just fine. It"s too loose with the Topk but glue would help.  It's really hit or miss. Based on this, I think your steel mesh speaker should snap on to the Z-sound and the oldschool 2-vent PK shells, it's a shame they're not sold separately.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> If you get the chance to catch a discount, try to buy a PK1 red coat. For me this currently the best DIY 14.8 driver on Ali.
> It is interesting that it really behaves better in a plastic shell than in a metal one, probably because of Docomo shells. Who knows



Agreed. It is a really good sounding driver.

I had the opposite experience lol, it sounded better in the modded brass shells I have than the 2 vent PK shell it came with. Probably due to the much larger internal volume and tuning. I used some cotton inside as well as tuning the vent holes with 3m micropore tape.




robar said:


> Interesting! Yes I noticed that in the product description those speakers are next to the 1-vent PK shells, so those will definitely work together.
> Compared to the B40, the vents ("notches" in the metal part, at the edges) on this speaker are bigger and also there is two instead of one, so I think the sound should have more bass and more energy.
> 
> But I would definitely not call these or the 1-vent PK shells 15mm, because I do have real ~15mm earbuds and their covers are way too big even for the B40 shell, completely different stuff.
> ...



Checked these 1 vent pk style shells some more. Same deeper cover and 16.7mm O.D. as the b40's when installed.





Took a few minutes with a small fine metal file I have and made them fit the wire mesh drivers properly.




Thanks for checking the Z-sound shells.


----------



## furyossa (May 11, 2020)

MX500 15.4mm plastic cover has a bit smaller diameter than a metal mesh cover. So only "gray-zone" shells that I bought (10 pairs) and I can't use it with 15.4mm driver
is this model from Chitty's store. I also brock some covers of damaged drivers trying to put them on this unusual shell.
This shell is perfect for M3 MMCX connectors but I don't recommend this model.


assassin10000 said:


> I had the opposite experience lol, it sounded better in the modded brass shells I have than the 2 vent PK shell it came with. Probably due to the much larger internal volume and tuning. I used some cotton inside as well as tuning the vent holes with 3m micropore tape.


Yup, I also had a bad experience with PK shell but not with Docomo's. Wierd


----------



## robar (May 11, 2020)

furyossa said:


> MX500 15.4mm plastic cover has a bit smaller diameter than a metal mesh cover. So only "gray-zone" shells that I bought (10 pairs) and I can't use with 15.4mm driver
> is this model from Chitty's store. I also brock some covers of damaged drivers trying to put them on this unusual shell.
> This shell is perfect for M3 MMCX connectors but I don't recommend this model.


Interesting, I have this shell from RY4C and I can put any kind of mx500 speaker on it. (but plastic mx500 is definitely harder to snap) It actually uses plastic cover in RY's model. Sound was bad, so I went  bananas and drilled the heck out of it.  It would have been possible to save it but I drilled at wrong places because the RY glue was so strong that I had to drill first and pop out the speaker through it with a screwdriver lol  I also don't recommend these shells, stock venting is terrible, hard to drill new vents because the layout is weird, so overall most other 15.4mm shells are simply better.
I also have a mystery 15.4mm shell by the way, namely the metal blue mx760 from NSC. It only accepts the speaker that came with it (which uses dp100 cover). Any other kind of speaker just doesn't fit in, even if I transplant it to the same kind of white dp100 cover (tried with vido). Something inside always gets in the way, very weird.

About your earlier post, aah, headphone modding?  I've been wanting to make an ultra portable closed headphone mod as well for a long time  I'm not familiar with that Sony, how do you plan to mod it? I personally plan to buy a cheap collapsible set with decent build quality and 40mm drivers, and upgrade the hell out of it.  I made little experiments with cheap leftover stuff, and it is definitely possible to achieve a big improvement simply by swapping the driver to a better one, but I stuck at how to tune small closed headphones. I'm not sure what to do with dark/muddy sound, I don't want to convert it to open because I would like to use these as a street/office set


----------



## assassin10000 (May 12, 2020)

Continued on with modding these larger PK shell's. I had success fitting 2 sets of drivers to the shells and MMCX modding them.

I use the 'center' of the normal tuning foams, flip it upside down, use a sharp knife/exacto to score the adhesive and tweezers to remove the area where the vent goes.





Had to do some delicate filing to get my original (ie: legit) Yuin PK2 drivers to fit. I'm  glad I was able to without any issues. I don't think these are available anymore. (I sold the shells to someone who damaged their PK1 shells and needed Yuin donors.)




Unfortunately I killed one of the new 64Ω steel mesh drivers I was looking forward to trying out. I don't exactly know what I did but I'm pretty sure I broke the voice coil wire (they tested good out of the package). No resistance when ohm testing. These come apart nicely, as the store said.



The one side sounds relatively balanced but hard to tell 100%, without both working.


I don't know if the original Yuin cable was just going to crap or the apple usb-c to 3.5mm out doesn't have enough juice for the PK2 drivers, but they sound better than I recall, now that I can use them with my BT20S.


----------



## robar

assassin10000 said:


> Continued on with modding these larger PK shell's. I had success fitting 2 sets of drivers to the shells and MMCX modding them.
> 
> I use the 'center' of the normal tuning foams, flip it upside down, use a sharp knife/exacto to score the adhesive and tweezers to remove the area where the vent goes.
> 
> ...


Nice trick with the horseshoe center, I'll definitely try that out!  It's good to know that the 1-vent PK shells can be adapted for the traditional cover designs.

Loosing speakers is so bad, especially when it happens for apparently no reason… I feel you, today I tried to put together the Z-sound speakers and the PK shell, but for some mysterious reason one of them didn't want to work anymore. Maybe the small wire leading down to the coil got damaged from the shell or the heat, but I don't know for sure. Most speakers happily survive dozens of experiments, but a few just die the first or second time, no matter how careful I am.


----------



## assassin10000

Yeah. Nothing you can do sometimes. That's what I think just happened to me as well. 

I'm just glad I was able to salvage my pk1 redfilm driver last time around when I broke the cover.


Bonus pics, my PK2 donor. Forgot to post them above:


----------



## assassin10000

So, I had trouble finding a clamp, vise or holder that would work really well for safely holding drivers for soldering and/or tuning.

I started by buying this mini vice, which has 
worked since last September when I got it. 

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33011116894.html


Unfortunately it is a bit finicky to use. The horizontal 'V' groove makes it more difficult than I'd like to hold the driver in place and clamp it. This is due to the thin upper flat area of the vise jaw, as if not held just right it slips and drops down. The vertical 'V' is also small and while it does give 3 points of contact, it's not wide enough. I've had the driver slip out or rotate or drop down a bunch.

___________________


So I went looking for a new solution a couple months ago. I ordered this vise.



As you can see it is a bit large. It's even harder to clamp the driver in place. The groove in the posts is too far down making access to solder terrible. Also the screw drive is plastic and difficult to turn, so it's hard to have a good feel for the amount of force being applied to the driver.

___________________


A few nights ago while thinking about it, I figured I could make something that would work. But I couldn't figure out exactly what. 

Yesterday I realized I could just alter the small vise. I even had the tools to do so. Digging through my spare fasteners, I found 4 short M5 allens that were just about perfect, as I only had to file off about .5mm from the tips of the 2 on the moving part of the jaw.

Even the weight of the 4 allens makes it better, the little vise is very light. The extra weight helps keep it from sliding all over the place as easily.




In comparison:



The only downside, is I didn't get this done before the 2 pairs of earbuds I worked on yesterday .


----------



## Themilkman46290

Hey guys, I see some of you have "mysteriously" had drivers go bad, I also lost a couple drivers (32ohm, 600ohm and a 500ohm) I didn't understand until I inspected the dead drivers using a macro lense on my phone cam, I noticed that the voice coil was snapped in the same places, I also noticed that the 600ohm's and 500ohm's voice coil came out further then the 32ohm, I checked other drivers I had and they didn't have this problem, there voice coils sat further down, so the lip of the shell doesn't cut the coil, what was happening is the some shells lip comes Down slightly more (I had tried metal shells on the 32 and 500 ohm driver and that was what did it) so I had used a dremel to grind a small indentation, I do that to all my shells and it hasn't happened since then


----------



## DBaldock9

assassin10000 said:


> So, I had trouble finding a clamp, vise or holder that would work really well for safely holding drivers for soldering and/or tuning.
> 
> I started by buying this mini vice, which has
> worked since last September when I got it.
> ...



I ordered one of these from AliExpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32862923517.html
.
and one of these from Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FES0MCE/
.
and, I've got some PanaVise vises and board clamps, for various types of projects.


----------



## assassin10000

DBaldock9 said:


> I ordered one of these from AliExpress - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32862923517.html
> .
> and one of these from Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FES0MCE/
> .
> and, I've got some PanaVise vises and board clamps, for various types of projects.



I think that 1st one uses the same pieces as the larger one I have. 

The 2nd is pretty cool though.


----------



## Slater (May 13, 2020)

I use a vice like that for full size headphone drivers. But for small drivers (IEM etc) I use a neodymium magnet (the type with a small hole in the center).

You can screw it to a piece of wood, or do like I do and use a long machine screw and nut. Then I hold the screw in a 3rd hand soldering clip (the kind with articulated arms and magnifying glass). That way, I have a lot more control over the position of the driver than just using a small vice.


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> I use a vice like that for full size headphone drivers. But for small drivers (IEM etc) I use a neodymium magnet (the type with a small hole in the center).
> 
> You can screw it to a piece of wood, or do like I do and use a long machine screw and nut. Then I hold the screw in a 3rd hand soldering clip (the kind with articulated arms and magnifying glass). That way, I have a lot more control over the position of the driver than just using a small vice.



Neat idea. I don't have magnets laying around.

I do have and use one of those 3rd hand soldering clips. Mine is sans magnifying glass.


----------



## Slater (May 13, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Neat idea. I don't have magnets laying around.
> 
> I do have and use one of those 3rd hand soldering clips. Mine is sans magnifying glass.



If you don’t have a magnet laying around, you can use an old junk/defective headphone driver. A blown or garbage driver (30mm, 40mm, etc).

You can even strip a magnet from an old 2.5” laptop hard drive (the 3.5” desktop drive magnets are way too powerful).


----------



## robar (May 13, 2020)

I just use double sided tape for soldering, keeps the speaker well enough for me  A good quality one from 3M holds surprisingly well

@Themilkman46290 Yes I also think the small wire from the coil is the weak point. I'm pretty sure last time I ruined it with the edge of the pk shell. Sometimes manufacturers just leave these too exposed.
I've seen a possible fix on youtube where a guy winded down one or two rows from the coil and somehow soldered it back in place. Has anyone tried this? Of course this would involve removing the front cover, which can be pretty fatal in itself.
I have some speakers with cracked covers (emx500 for example) but I'm afraid to disassemble them because in the past some speakers already fell apart for me.


----------



## assassin10000 (May 13, 2020)

Well, NSC audio store on AE is willing to sell individual drivers. Replacement ordered.

I can definitely see damaging the voice coil wires if you don't align them with the slot when installing them onto the housing. I think I nicked mine with my tweezers trying to align the foam that was out of place, which was right next to them.

_________________


Modified another pair of those PK style shells, this is to move the 'diy pk1 redfilm' drivers over to and see how they sound. I didn't really like them in the 2 vent pk shell they came with but they sounded excellent in the brass shells I modified.


----------



## assassin10000

Decided I liked the short style mmcx for over ear wearing better, so I swapped my Yuin PK2 drivers to the short mmcx housing. 

While doing so one of the covers fell off, I figured I'd take a pic as I never would have taken it apart on purpose .


----------



## captione

Hi guys. Is there any way to pry the driver on MX500 shells? I just bought a blue Vido for diy purposes and the left side of the pair isn't as easy as taking off the driver on the right side. Seems that there's more glue in there, and just pulling apart the drivers makes a gnarly sound that's really discouraging, what should I do?


----------



## Themilkman46290

captione said:


> Hi guys. Is there any way to pry the driver on MX500 shells? I just bought a blue Vido for diy purposes and the left side of the pair isn't as easy as taking off the driver on the right side. Seems that there's more glue in there, and just pulling apart the drivers makes a gnarly sound that's really discouraging, what should I do?


I sometimes heat it up with a hair dryer, sometimes I use a number 0 Windsor & Newton series 7 watercolour brush to add a bit of acetone to the very edge (need a very good brush to control the amount, too much will melt the diaphragm) and simply gently pull apart. 

And normally I would buy 2 pairs because breaking things is very easy, specially when it's not meant to be opened.


----------



## robar (May 15, 2020)

captione said:


> Hi guys. Is there any way to pry the driver on MX500 shells? I just bought a blue Vido for diy purposes and the left side of the pair isn't as easy as taking off the driver on the right side. Seems that there's more glue in there, and just pulling apart the drivers makes a gnarly sound that's really discouraging, what should I do?


I disassembled blue vido myself, and it wasn't too bad, while the glue was plenty but it wasn't very strong. You could try to use a plastic card or guitar pick if you have. Try to pry it from the bottom where the stem is located, usually these kinds of shells open more easily from that direction.But be careful to not damage the plastic cover. The good thing about vido speakers is that they sit very loosely in their covers, even if they fall out, most of the time I could snap them back into the cover without damage, (if the small wire from the coil survives the fall). Let's hope the glue didn't leak into the speaker You can try hair dryer as a last resort, but I'm not sure how the vido driver handles the extra heat. Maybe try it very lightly first and slowly build up the duration and the heat.


----------



## captione

Thank you for the replies! With a little bit of hope and luck, I finally opened them by prying them from the stem side as @robar said.
Time to make my panda schemed MMCX Vidos


----------



## robar

I took this photo just for fun. Different types of generic shells next to each other.  Shells in clockwise direction: MX500, DP100, MX760 (NSC store set), Wayteq/EA/RY4X, Asome H180 clone, Shiny 3-vent wood 15.4mm, Faaeal Z-sound, RY4C, B40, Qian69, Qian39


----------



## assassin10000

Well, got a disappointing package. It was supposed to be the Faael Z-sounds but ended up having some 90° 3.5mm to 2.5mm cable inside.




In the mean time, I finished up the shells as much as I could, for the drivers I'm still waiting on. 

The only thing left is final fitment and soldering. Found another use for that little vise as an epoxy curing stand as well.





Spoiler: Drivers



1x replacement driver for the one I damaged:


assassin10000 said:


> Heard back from NSC Audio Store. "The driver is 3 way balanced type" So not vocal or mid centric, but balanced across lows, mids & highs.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32978993535.html



And these also:


assassin10000 said:


> I was poking around and saw these 14.8mm 'bass unit' drivers. Covers remind me of the EBX, hopefully they aren't bright like it was (not that I expect it, given they are a 'bass unit').
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32877041035.html


----------



## captione

Finally done with my panda themed white Vido MMCX! 


Spoiler: Pics










They were actually just plain old White Vidos that I ordered/commissioned from a local DIY-er. I broke the right pair so I might as well use my Blue Vidos to replace the drivers. Now they serve as a backup for my recabled Vidos in case that it breaks because of my lacking soldering skills 😆


----------



## willyboyaudio

captione said:


> Hi guys. Is there any way to pry the driver on MX500 shells? I just bought a blue Vido for diy purposes and the left side of the pair isn't as easy as taking off the driver on the right side. Seems that there's more glue in there, and just pulling apart the drivers makes a gnarly sound that's really discouraging, what should I do?



I bought a set of cellphone repair kit, one of the tools is this blue one, 100% success rate for me. I cover the stem with a small piece of leather, and my left index finger is pushing slightly so the lever action did not pull it too far.
P.S. This is an actual repair job, not just for photo purposes. I'll be back with more pics.


----------



## captione

willyboyaudio said:


> I bought a set of cellphone repair kit, one of the tools is this blue one, 100% success rate for me. I cover the stem with a small piece of leather, and my left index finger is pushing slightly so the lever action did not pull it too far.
> P.S. This is an actual repair job, not just for photo purposes. I'll be back with more pics.



Might just take note of that the next I do something next, thanks for the tip! 😁


----------



## willyboyaudio

assassin10000 said:


> So, I had trouble finding a clamp, vise or holder that would work really well for safely holding drivers for soldering and/or tuning.



Hi there, I've found a blob of blu-tack works fine for earbuds drivers. 
That way also my soldering hand is firmly planted on the same plane (surface) therefore helping me to be precise and quick.
Hope this is useful  thank you.


----------



## willyboyaudio

captione said:


> Might just take note of that the next I do something next, thanks for the tip! 😁


Just a sample from AliExpress


----------



## robar (May 17, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> I bought a set of cellphone repair kit, one of the tools is this blue one, 100% success rate for me. I cover the stem with a small piece of leather, and my left index finger is pushing slightly so the lever action did not pull it too far.
> P.S. This is an actual repair job, not just for photo purposes. I'll be back with more pics.


Yeah I used these a lot in the past as well with good success. Nice touch with the leather!  The plastic is very weak so it doesn't hurt to buy a bunch of it. I literally snapped one while trying to open Rosemary, and that was the point where I decided to leave that earbud alone


----------



## captione

@Slater, may I ask a question? 
You're familiar with KZ's cable types right? 
I'm planning to dismantle the 2-pin connectors on my A-type (the ones with the ZS3s), but I don't know where's the positive and negative pins, is there like a way to know that without busting out a multimeter? (since I honestly don't have one rn) 
I might use this as reference on other cables too.


----------



## Slater

captione said:


> @Slater, may I ask a question?
> You're familiar with KZ's cable types right?
> I'm planning to dismantle the 2-pin connectors on my A-type (the ones with the ZS3s), but I don't know where's the positive and negative pins, is there like a way to know that without busting out a multimeter? (since I honestly don't have one rn)
> I might use this as reference on other cables too.



The flat side of the plug is gnd, and the rounded side of the plug is +


----------



## captione

Slater said:


> The flat side of the plug is gnd, and the rounded side of the plug is +


Thanks!


----------



## assassin10000

Would anyone in here and in the U.S. be interested in these shells? Already fitted to standard 14.8mm drivers and I notched them for the voice coil (no notch from the factory). They take M4 x .5mm MMCX, the short ones.


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> Would anyone in here and in the U.S. be interested in these shells? Already fitted to standard 14.8mm drivers and I notched them for the voice coil (no notch from the factory). They take M4 x .5mm MMCX, the short ones.



Do you have a link to the stock shells? I’d like to check them out to see if they’ll work for a project. Thanks


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> Do you have a link to the stock shells? I’d like to check them out to see if they’ll work for a project. Thanks



I checked my orders and these are no longer listed. It leads to an 'item not available' page.


These have the same shell but with a long stem instead of MMCX ones:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000100163102.html


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> I checked my orders and these are no longer listed. It leads to an 'item not available' page.
> 
> 
> These have the same shell but with a long stem instead of MMCX ones:
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000100163102.html



Nice.

Have you ever tried these?

https://a.aliexpress.com/_dYPXgmX


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> Nice.
> 
> Have you ever tried these?
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_dYPXgmX



I haven't. I think @furyossa has though.

I'm tend to prefer the MMCX as close to flush as the driver O.D. as possible, as it makes over ear wearing easier. These stick out past a bit.


----------



## Slater (May 21, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> I haven't. I think @furyossa has though.
> 
> I'm tend to prefer the MMCX as close to flush as the driver O.D. as possible, as it makes over ear wearing easier. These stick out past a bit.



Ever tried swapping the drivers out of a “popular and inexpensive metal shelled mmcx earbud that uses a graphene driver“?


----------



## furyossa

Slater said:


> Nice.
> 
> Have you ever tried these?
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_dYPXgmX


I have both, silver and black. I used silver shells for Titanium 64ohm driver which perform a bit better in metal shell then plastic, and black shell for Beryllium 130ohm.
About these shells you can read here


----------



## beanxinh

My new earbud using 150ohm mx500 driver and metal shell. Out of the box the earbud sounded boomy. Trying to make the back vent smaller make the bass disappear and the buds sound dry. So I tried to drill a hole on top and it reduce mid bass make the buds sound airier just as i like .


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> Ever tried swapping the drivers out of a “popular and inexpensive metal shelled mmcx earbud that uses a graphene driver“?



These? 


 

The 2nd might work, but hard to say. It's description says it has a 14mm driver.


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> These?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The top one, yes. The bottom one looks like an Apple ear pod style.

Even if it is 14mm, it should not be hard to sand the inside slightly. To fit a 14.8mm driver means only 0.4mm of material needs to be sanded (a trivial amount). And that’s assuming the stock driver is exactly 14.0mm. It’s possible that’s just a marketing guesstimate and the actual size of the driver is different.

I actually have a shell with a bad driver. I will open it up and measure the inside diameter of the shell and the driver so we will know for sure.


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> The top one, yes. The bottom one looks like an Apple ear pod style.
> 
> Even if it is 14mm, it should not be hard to sand the inside slightly. To fit a 14.8mm driver means only 0.4mm of material needs to be sanded (a trivial amount). And that’s assuming the stock driver is exactly 14.0mm. It’s possible that’s just a marketing guesstimate and the actual size of the driver is different.
> 
> I actually have a shell with a bad driver. I will open it up and measure the inside diameter of the shell and the driver so we will know for sure.



I had those, the fit wasn't great so I sold them.


They probably would fit a 14.8mm driver. I measured them at 16.35mm O.D.

Most PK/14.8mm drivers measure 16.1mm


----------



## robar

beanxinh said:


> My new earbud using 150ohm mx500 driver and metal shell. Out of the box the earbud sounded boomy. Trying to make the back vent smaller make the bass disappear and the buds sound dry. So I tried to drill a hole on top and it reduce mid bass make the buds sound airier just as i like .


Looks really nice, what shell is this?


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> Looks really nice, what shell is this?



Looks like it's these:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32259862462.html


----------



## beanxinh

assassin10000 said:


> Looks like it's these:
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32259862462.html


https://shopee.vn/product/168095274/2656254514?smtt=0.0.9
Yes I think that one. The price is cheaper in VND though, 1.5 USD a piece


----------



## robar

Thanks! It's a shame metal shells are so pricey on aliexpress. Most of them are around 8-10usd. (in bundles maybe cheaper, but not by single pair) There's no way I'm paying that much for one pair of empty shells that could prove to be unusable for me. Around 3-4usd would be a great price though.


----------



## captione

The price of other metal shells are kinda ironic for me since that particular metal one is probably the most cheapest 15.4mm shell I can find on some of my trusty sellers.


----------



## beanxinh

robar said:


> Thanks! It's a shame metal shells are so pricey on aliexpress. Most of them are around 8-10usd. (in bundles maybe cheaper, but not by single pair) There's no way I'm paying that much for one pair of empty shells that could prove to be unusable for me. Around 3-4usd would be a great price though.


I think you wouldn't miss much. The shell is very light may be made from tin since it very cheap. When I ordered the metal shell I alway thought that I will get something make from steel like the shell of the faaeal datura pro that will help resonating the bass better not some sort of metal made me remember about the cheap tableware from childhood ). Anyway since I'm a trebe head the shell work very well and after that simple mod I rank it better than the wooden shell I got before.


----------



## robar

beanxinh said:


> I think you wouldn't miss much. The shell is very light may be made from tin since it very cheap. When I ordered the metal shell I alway thought that I will get something make from steel like the shell of the faaeal datura pro that will help resonating the bass better not some sort of metal made me remember about the cheap tableware from childhood ). Anyway since I'm a trebe head the shell work very well and after that simple mod I rank it better than the wooden shell I got before.


Thanks for the info  I wrote about metal shells in general, there are a lot of other models like the ones that furyossa recommends, but all of them cost virtually the same. :/


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Thanks for the info  I wrote about metal shells in general, there are a lot of other models like the ones that furyossa recommends, but all of them cost virtually the same. :/


Yes but many of theses not perfectly compatible with MX500, I mean for some we need to use glue.


----------



## robar (May 26, 2020)

I've received a couple of stuff recently  I got a new cable, new shells, drill kit and another set of  19-21 speakers. I really like this cable, for the price (3.8usd) it looks and feels great in my opinion, soft and doesn't tangle, plan to build something with it soon. I'm also thinking about mx500 drilling mods, not sure what to try but will experiment soon.

The shells on the other hand are quite a disappointment so far. Neither of them can snap on speakers without glue, they are extremely loose, can't even hold mx500 cover in place, especially the wooden one where the two units has somewhat different diameter as well. These will need a lot of glue to hold anything. (even steel mesh or dp100 cover) Did you have a similar experience? I thought that I can at least try these out beforehand but there is zero friction or snapping with most covers. The plastic shells are very loose as well which is unexpected. The plastic is cheap, but hopefully they will sound decent after glue. I have an e8000 glue on the way, hopefully it will arrive in one piece lol.

Basically I can't do anything worthwhile without it, even the remaining mx500 shells (plus the Qian69 and others) are a bit loose so I can't really create channel balance or repeatable results at the moment.




links
cable https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969752353.html
drill https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32665380010.html
wooden shell https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000477388117.html
plastic shell https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000851137552.html


----------



## captione

Recabled my VE Monks Plus! 
I used my stock IEM cable lying around.
Thank god the shell wasn't glued shut, so I only applied a bit of acetone on needle at the seams.


Spoiler: Pictures


----------



## Merlin-PT (May 26, 2020)

@robar

There's a way for the wooden shells to get bigger and snap in the drivers.

I don't know how it will sound because I didn't solder the drivers yet.
I also wanted to make a dip in the shell, so it doesn't break/rip the drivers coil when attaching.

This what I tried with the wooden varnished ones:
I sanded down the groove/edge (you can sand it all or leave some), so the shells got smaller in the ear.
Because there is no more groove/edge, the shell diameter is now larger.
I then needed to sand and adjust the new diameter so it would snap in the drivers.

Note:
To uniform and easily sand/adjust the new diameter, I fixated the inside center of the wooden shell in a very small low power USB battery drill.
This way the shell rotates and I just carefully touch a sand paper with it.

I have some dremel like tools, but I like this one, only because it's very small, has 3 speeds and more important to me it's battery powered and USB charged, so no wires, I just grab it and use:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32964838270.html


----------



## Themilkman46290

robar said:


> I've received a couple of stuff recently  I got a new cable, new shells, drill kit and another set of  19-21 speakers. I really like this cable, for the price (3.8usd) it looks and feels great in my opinion, soft and doesn't tangle, plan to build something with it soon. I'm also thinking about mx500 drilling mods, not sure what to try but will experiment soon.
> 
> The shells on the other hand are quite a disappointment so far. Neither of them can snap on speakers without glue, they are extremely loose, can't even hold mx500 cover in place, especially the wooden one where the two units has somewhat different diameter as well. These will need a lot of glue to hold anything. (even steel mesh or dp100 cover) Did you have a similar experience? I thought that I can at least try these out beforehand but there is zero friction or snapping with most covers. The plastic shells are very loose as well which is unexpected. The plastic is cheap, but hopefully they will sound decent after glue. I have an e8000 glue on the way, hopefully it will arrive in one piece lol.
> 
> ...


I held them in place with cloth tape (for bandages) while testing then used a e8000 variant to close them, didn't take much, I used a needle to apply it neatly 

Surprised the dp100 don't snap in


----------



## Merlin-PT (May 26, 2020)

I'm looking to try the 130, 400, (and maybe the 600) ohms in these wooden shells with MMCX connectors and compare them to the classic MX500 shells I already use. I ordered some more drivers and shells and they'll take some time to arrive.

At this point I just wanted to get some tips from you all that already tried these drivers and shells.
My concerns/questions for these drivers and shells are:

a) Will these wooden shells with MMCX connectors give better, same or worst sound than the MX500 shells?

b) If I sand down the wooden shell for it to fit the shells, it will fit my ear better and it will have a bit less inside volume.
Will this affect the sound? Will this sanded shells be better for some drivers and worst for others (130,400,600) or should I use the shell as it is with some glue?

c) The shell will be completely closed in the MMCX end. Do I need more venting holes? Should I use dampening material for the shell venting holes?

d) I wanted to make a groove/dip in the shell so it doesn't rip/break the driver coil when I snap it in, is there any special position for the driver holes to be placed relative to the shell holes, where do I put the groove/dip position?

Thanks for any input, no need to reply to all the questions.


----------



## robar (May 26, 2020)

I experimented quite a bit today.
The silver cable is quite thick, it doesn't fit into many shells, for example it can't fit through the bundled mx500 stem, but it works with the regular mx500 and the transparent dp100.

I drilled into different types of mx500 shells with the 1mm bit, but I couldn't make an improvement so far, the hole only made  the sound warmer and boomier, depending on how much I covered it. Sounds like when you don't put horseshoe on the shells, only on the speaker.

The drill bits have varying quality, if a bit doesn't want to drill well, then just try another one from the set, which might be a lot better for some reason.  The shells I received need glue so I couldn't do anything with them.

Bundled mx500 is still shallow and warm compared to regular type. Maybe glue will improve it but I'm starting to give up on this shell design, too much sacrifice on bass quality/quantity.

I still couldn't make a channel balanced earbud with the darned B40 speakers and the Faaeal Zsound shell. Btw I think the main problem with B40 speakers, is that the right sides had a blutac-kind of glue pushed on the opening where the voice coil comes down. It obstructs the airflow there, I tried to remove it carefully but only partial success, the glue reaches quite deep into the hole, maybe even touches the edge of the membrane. I'm fed up with this whole project lol, might throw the whole thing in the trash haha. (I'll probably buy a decent 14.8mm  speaker because I can't believe I can't build anything decent with a box full of salvaged stuff)

So, couple of hours wasted and nothing works lol.



Merlin-PT said:


> @robar
> 
> There's a way for the wooden shells to get bigger and snap in the drivers.
> 
> ...


Great idea, I'll keep it in mind.  I have another set of wooden shells (the shiny 3-vent type) with the same problem, maybe I'll experiment on it. With this sanding mod I would be more confident to use glue as well, I'm a bit concerned that the glue would leak into the speaker if I just applied it on the grooves.



Themilkman46290 said:


> I held them in place with cloth tape (for bandages) while testing then used a e8000 variant to close them, didn't take much, I used a needle to apply it neatly
> 
> Surprised the dp100 don't snap in


Thanks, I'll ask about glue applying techniques when mine arrives. By the way, this black plastic is not a DP100 shell, the shape and the layout of the vents is quite different, this is why I bought it in the first place. (I already have dp100)


----------



## assassin10000

@Merlin-PT D.) Doesn't actually matter if you are lining up the groove and voice coil wires. As long as no obstruction in the face of the driver partly blocks the ear canal.

Stock position on the PK shells is at 12 o'clock with the stem going straight down. It matters a bit more on those as the face is not asymmetrical and has 2 areas which may block sound off partially to the ear canal. If wearing over ear you could put the gap at 6 o'clock.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> I've received a couple of stuff recently  I got a new cable, new shells, drill kit and another set of  19-21 speakers. I really like this cable, for the price (3.8usd) it looks and feels great in my opinion, soft and doesn't tangle, plan to build something with it soon. I'm also thinking about mx500 drilling mods, not sure what to try but will experiment soon.
> 
> The shells on the other hand are quite a disappointment so far. Neither of them can snap on speakers without glue, they are extremely loose, can't even hold mx500 cover in place, especially the wooden one where the two units has somewhat different diameter as well. These will need a lot of glue to hold anything. (even steel mesh or dp100 cover) Did you have a similar experience? I thought that I can at least try these out beforehand but there is zero friction or snapping with most covers. The plastic shells are very loose as well which is unexpected. The plastic is cheap, but hopefully they will sound decent after glue. I have an e8000 glue on the way, hopefully it will arrive in one piece lol.
> 
> ...


Are you finally decided to retire "heavy-duty tool"?  Cable looks nice. Chitty's store two new interesting arrivals
PK's white, black and blue (semi-transparent) shells https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001039931437.html
Interchangeable plugs with mini XLS connection https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001011392615.html


----------



## beanxinh

robar said:


> I've received a couple of stuff recently  I got a new cable, new shells, drill kit and another set of  19-21 speakers. I really like this cable, for the price (3.8usd) it looks and feels great in my opinion, soft and doesn't tangle, plan to build something with it soon. I'm also thinking about mx500 drilling mods, not sure what to try but will experiment soon.
> 
> The shells on the other hand are quite a disappointment so far. Neither of them can snap on speakers without glue, they are extremely loose, can't even hold mx500 cover in place, especially the wooden one where the two units has somewhat different diameter as well. These will need a lot of glue to hold anything. (even steel mesh or dp100 cover) Did you have a similar experience? I thought that I can at least try these out beforehand but there is zero friction or snapping with most covers. The plastic shells are very loose as well which is unexpected. The plastic is cheap, but hopefully they will sound decent after glue. I have an e8000 glue on the way, hopefully it will arrive in one piece lol.
> 
> ...


All of the shells that I ordered (except the yuin) were smaller than the driver so I have  to glue them in. That make tuning them a hassle because I have to wait half a day for the glue to cure and if I don't like the sound I have to pry the driver out again.


----------



## Slater

beanxinh said:


> All of the shells that I ordered (except the yuin) were smaller than the driver so I have  to glue them in. That make tuning them a hassle because I have to wait half a day for the glue to cure and if I don't like the sound I have to pry the driver out again.



That’s honestly one of the main reasons why I‘m hesitant to get into earbud modding.

With full size headphones, it’s usually a matter of removing a few screws, which makes it easy to open the shell to tweak the tuning (sometimes 10-20 times). But if it was glued and I risked breaking the voice coil etc, it would remove the fun factor for me.


----------



## captione

Alot of DIY people do their own shells, I even saw someone use a full brass MX500-like shell, pretty insane. Someone also used clay to sculpt a custom shell


----------



## assassin10000 (May 30, 2020)

Slater said:


> That’s honestly one of the main reasons why I‘m hesitant to get into earbud modding.
> 
> With full size headphones, it’s usually a matter of removing a few screws, which makes it easy to open the shell to tweak the tuning (sometimes 10-20 times). But if it was glued and I risked breaking the voice coil etc, it would remove the fun factor for me.



Thats why finding the right shells helps a lot or at least shells you can mod to be a good fit.

Luckily all the ones I've done hold together without any glue.

Once I finalize a set I may add just a hair of e8000 glue with a needle or pick in 3-4 spots to prevent any accidental separation. But not enough to cause it to pull the driver apart when separating.


----------



## beanxinh

captione said:


> Alot of DIY people do their own shells, I even saw someone use a full brass MX500-like shell, pretty insane. Someone also used clay to sculpt a custom shell


I'm saving money to buy a 3D printer to make the shell with the shape that I like and experiment with the chamber. Since I'm not good with my hand I can't make shell from wood or clay .


----------



## furyossa

beanxinh said:


> All of the shells that I ordered (except the yuin) were smaller than the driver so I have  to glue them in. That make tuning them a hassle because I have to wait half a day for the glue to cure and if I don't like the sound I have to pry the driver out again.


Next time try double side duct tape. It's a bit tricky to cut thin parts but it's easier for testing and tuning


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Alot of DIY people do their own shells, I even saw someone use a full brass MX500-like shell, pretty insane. Someone also used clay to sculpt a custom shell


I've been thinking about trying polymer clay for shells 😁


----------



## Themilkman46290 (May 29, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I've been thinking about trying polymer clay for shells 😁


Careful, I tried a little while back with white abs plastic (had a half liter left over from some side work) results looked cool, making a mold was fairly easy, but my wife had a weird skin reaction and got a rash where the plastic touched, I ended up tossing them out.
I am sure it can be done, with most materials, clays, plastics, polymers but it maybe needs some skin safe coating


----------



## furyossa (May 29, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Careful, I tried a little while back with white abs plastic (had a half liter left over from some side work) results looked cool, making a mold was fairly easy, but my wife had a weird skin reaction and got a rash where the plastic touched, I ended up tossing them out.
> I am sure it can be done, with most materials, clays, plastics, polymers but it maybe needs some skin safe coating


Yup. I think that Polymer clay after bake is safe for skin. Also, UV resin as coat finish produces a very cool effect. Jewelry made this way really looks amazing


----------



## purplesun (May 31, 2020)

On the subject of earbud glue, I use 3M micropore surgical tape (1cm size) in replacement of glue. Came up with the idea as I got fed up messing around with glue while prototyping and testing. I liked it so much, it became a permanent feature of the earbuds that I close up. Cut about 4 cm long and 5mm wide - that should be wide and long enough to hold the shells together while being able to hide under the earbud foam when installed. IMO, it's easier, less mistakes and more uniform pressure seal with tape rather than glue.




.


----------



## assassin10000

purplesun said:


> On the subject of earbud glue, I use 3M micropore surgical tape (1cm size) in replacement of glue. Came up with the idea as I got fed up messing around with glue while prototyping and testing. I liked it so much, it became a permanent feature of the earbuds that I close up. Cut about 4 cm long and 5mm wide - that should be wide and long enough to hold the shells together while being able to hide under the earbud foam when installed. IMO, it's easier, less mistakes and more uniform pressure seal with tape rather than glue.
> 
> .



While I would do that as a temporary measure, as the micropore tape ages the adhesive becomes worse to deal with. Not the greatest to deal with if you feel like doing anything else after a couple months, due to the residue. 

Still, a really good way to do tuning.


----------



## Themilkman46290

purplesun said:


> On the subject of earbud glue, I use 3M micropore surgical tape (1cm size) in replacement of glue. Came up with the idea as I got fed up messing around with glue while prototyping and testing. I liked it so much, it became a permanent feature of the earbuds that I close up. Cut about 4 cm long and 5mm wide - that should be wide and long enough to hold the shells together while being able to hide under the earbud foam when installed. IMO, it's easier, less mistakes and more uniform pressure seal with tape rather than glue.
> 
> .


The cloth medical tape works much better, 3m loses its grip after 1 sweaty day, Leaving us with that stickiness, the cloth bandage tape has held my daily driver earbud for 2 months with heavy use (while working, sanding, polishing and getting very sweaty) and it doesn't crease or wrinkle like the 3m tape.


----------



## purplesun (May 31, 2020)

Yeah, a lot less stressful with the tape opening, closing, opening, closing, opening, closing... the shells when trying to get the sound right . It gets "gummy" after 6 to 9 months of constant use, but that's when the ear foams also needs replacing - so I change the tape at the same time. The one in the pic was installed about Dec '19, but I have only used it constantly for about 1 month.


----------



## KevDzn

I've been using "B-7000 Multi Purpose Glue" for my diy earbuds. It's actually used to seal mobile phones screen or the the back panel. If you apply heat to it you can unglue it without damage. Its something of a rubber sealant, very easy to apply and remove.


----------



## robar (May 31, 2020)

I ordered E8000 glue personally, not sure what's the difference between this and b7000, maybe the viscosity. I hope it will arrive soon and without any hole on the tube lol.  Maybe I'll try this tape fixing technique, but sadly the medical tapes I have at home leave very sticky residue instantly

By the way I did a quick build few weeks ago, with the N50 speakers (I removed the stock foam so they're bare) and regular black mx500 shells plus their horseshoe. Snap is quite strong, doesn't even rotate so it works well without glue. The sound signature is surprisingly v-shaped but with a smooth gentle treatment, so it never sounds too sharp or bright. The tuning and the characteristics of the speaker balance out each other quite nicely. (N50 speaker by itself is smooth and slightly midcentric) I generally prefer a flatter signature but actually I quite enjoy this sound, punchy and spacious but not fatiguing. Of course the vocals are a bit thin but with an organic quality, not sharp metallic like with emx500 speakers . It's a good improvement over the stock setup, which was a foam installed on the speakers themselves and using the bundled type of mx500. This setup is tighter, cleaner, smoother, deeper. BTW the steel mesh cover + mx500 shell has a more stable fit for me compared to the plastic cover, maybe even suitable for walking around, I'll test it.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 1, 2020)

purplesun said:


> On the subject of earbud glue, I use 3M micropore surgical tape (1cm size) in replacement of glue. Came up with the idea as I got fed up messing around with glue while prototyping and testing. I liked it so much, it became a permanent feature of the earbuds that I close up. Cut about 4 cm long and 5mm wide - that should be wide and long enough to hold the shells together while being able to hide under the earbud foam when installed. IMO, it's easier, less mistakes and more uniform pressure seal with tape rather than glue.
> 
> .


When I mentioned the double-side duct tape I meant this. The tape is placed on the inside of the plastic cover




BTW... if you are wondering which driver has the best abs, the berillyum 130ohm has 8-pack abs 💪


----------



## purplesun

Loving the hacking spirit in here! I need more protein shakes


----------



## furyossa

purplesun said:


> Loving the hacking spirit in here! I need more protein shakes


Don't forget to do some crunches and leg rises before modding the earbuds


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> When I mentioned the double-side duct tape I meant this. The tape is placed on the inside of the plastic cover
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha good one, it's certainly the fittest of all by the looks. By the way, what those LF and HF marks mean? I've always found intriguing why this one has 4 pairs of solder blobs, but I've never looked into it as I don't own one


----------



## furyossa (Jun 1, 2020)

robar said:


> Haha good one, it's certainly the fittest of all by the looks. By the way, what those LF and HF marks mean? I've always found intriguing why this one has 4 pairs of solder blobs, but I've never looked into it as I don't own one


Probably a Chinese way of marking the abdomen. This is 8-pack which is rare in Europe 
When we do some crunches middle abs produce low an high frequency. LF and HF in short


----------



## Slater

furyossa said:


> When I mentioned the double-side duct tape I meant this. The tape is placed on the inside of the plastic cover
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Slater

robar said:


> Haha good one, it's certainly the fittest of all by the looks. By the way, what those LF and HF marks mean? I've always found intriguing why this one has 4 pairs of solder blobs, but I've never looked into it as I don't own one



My guess is that they are solder pads for crossover components (resistors or capacitors). Low (frequency) pass and high (frequency) pass filters.


----------



## RikudouGoku

Hi I gotten curious on DIY earbuds/iems, particularly earbuds since they seems to be the easiest to make. Is there any guide on how to actually assemble your own earbud and what do you need (besides the drivers and shell)?

Is a kit like this the only tool you need? 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B07Q4T12PH/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A2NRY4HOWAHJOF&psc=1

I am also guessing that you chose specific drivers that are already tuned to sound a specific way, and you yourself dont actually tune it right?

Lastly...should I not go into the DIY rabbit hole?   

TIA


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 3, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> Hi I gotten curious on DIY earbuds/iems, particularly earbuds since they seems to be the easiest to make. Is there any guide on how to actually assemble your own earbud and what do you need (besides the drivers and shell)?
> 
> Is a kit like this the only tool you need?
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B07Q4T12PH/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A2NRY4HOWAHJOF&psc=1
> ...



Depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.

I'm sure there is lots of info about soldering. Google/YouTube is probably gonna be your newest friend.

___________

If you buy drivers, shells with foam installed, and pre built/tinned cables; then maybe all you need may be a soldering iron/solder and some way to hold things while assembling. No tuning may be necessary, of course YMMV.

Others have used bluetac, magnets, tape, etc. I use a modded mini vice.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/page-119#post-15612382






If not using pre-tinned cables you will want flux and a soldering heat sink. The heat sink will help prevent the wire/enamel/coating/insulation from melting and also making the wire ends stiff when tinning.

___________


If you want to play with tuning you'll probably want to order foam and paper 'tuning cotton'. The paper is available in several thicknesses.

3m micropore or 'paper' tape is good for tuning shells as well. It is breathable and you can punch holes with a needle to fine tune air flow.

Cotton balls are a good source for a loose material if you want to dampen resonance/reflections or slow air flow inside a housing.

For placing, positioning and removing all of the above, I'd recommend a pair of curved or angled tip tweezers.


You can also consider getting a small hand drill and drill bits (.6mm, .8mm & 1.0mm) to either add or fine tune the porting of various shells.

___________


If you want to make MMCX buds, you'll want a set of articulated alligator clips for soldering them. A pick or needle to place a tiny amount of flux on the solder points.

You'll also need a M3 x .5 tap & 2.5mm drill bit or a M4 x .5 tap & 3.5mm drill bit. Or both, for the two different style MMCX connectors commonly used (Long style is M3 x .5, Short is M4 x .5).

You can buy pre-tinned wires, MMCX with wires already soldered, or DIY it. If DIY refer to above about tinning.

___________


If you are going to mod shells, I'd also recommend some small precision files, a small hobby hacksaw for removing or shortening stems and a medium size fine file for rough shaping.

A dremel or rotary tool can be used but I found it was hard to be precise enough with it.

___________


Also, a multimeter. This will allow you to check drivers, cables and verify your work. It can also allow you figure out what wire goes where if working with multiple strand cables.


----------



## KevDzn

Whoa, hold ya horses @RikudouGoku .....
You're thinking too fast too far. I think maybe you can start by getting some cheap buds like vido, monks+.... and recable it with various cables like OFC, SPC etc. to get your experience meter started first.


----------



## assassin10000

KevDzn said:


> Whoa, hold ya horses @RikudouGoku .....
> You're thinking too fast too far. I think maybe you can start by getting some cheap buds like vido, monks+.... and recable it with various cables like OFC, SPC etc. to get your experience meter started first.



^ this.

That's a great suggestion. My first foray into diy'ing earbuds was making a cheap (<$2) vido equal length instead of J cable.


----------



## robar (Jun 3, 2020)

@RikudouGoku
I recommend getting a set of 5 mx500 shells with foams (about 3usd), a couple of cheap 15.4mm speakers from our recommendations (3-4usd per pair) and some cables ready for soldering (1-4usd per cable).  You can buy a nice starter kit like this for about 15-20usd which should provide plenty of opportunity to learn and build some nice sounding buds if they survive the process  It could be a good base for further experiments as well. Optionally buying a hand drill and some e8000/b7000 glue is also beneficial but not necessary for starting out, especially for mx500 shells. Double sided tape and a tweezer is very useful though for holding stuff in place.
Much better investment than buying a bunch of crappy vidos which are fragile as hell and sound much worse compared to what you can buy in parts.

Recabling existing ultra cheap earbuds is an option as well, though I wouldn't really recommend it if you're interested in building earbuds, because the sound quality will be far worse than what you can build yourself with basic parts and also it's much more likely that something gets damaged in the process, as most earbuds are not built to be safely disassembled.

I recommend NSC store, Jietu and CKlewis from aliexpress for budget parts. The 5-set mx500 with horseshoe is not available at NSC (tuning foam sold separately) but you can find the 19-21 heavy bass only there. I can recommend the 19-21 heavy bass (only NSC but it's my 1st rec), the N50 steel mesh (cheapest at jietu) and the EMX500 (I prefer the other two but still decent and cheaper, 3usd at jietu) speakers for starters. All of them are below 4usd and have nice price/performance ratio.


----------



## purplesun

RikudouGoku said:


> Lastly...should I not go into the DIY rabbit hole?


Not rabbit hole; stare into the bass resonance hole on MX500-based earbuds and it will suck you in! Just like a Helen Reddy song (too old?) 

Some stuff I would recommend:
- Order a bunch of cheap raw material from Aliexpress to learn by making mistakes.
- Less than 20 watt solder iron with needle nose
- Clips/jigs/implements to hold the buds when you solder
- Cheap digital calipers
- And this forum thread


----------



## assassin10000

These showed up earlier today.



assassin10000 said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32877041035.html







Initial thoughts: somewhat warm, rich, bassy sound. The lower mids are more present and tapers into upper mids. Treble is present but somewhat rolled off. Not super detailed but also not veiled or muddy. 

No sibilance or harsh upper mids, good for long sessions. A bit better on male vocals than female.

They remind me somewhat of my Yuin PK2's, with more bass extension/sub-bass.


----------



## captione

@RikudouGoku you should start with rewiring your Vidos. Buy a pre build cable and some additional accessories to personalise your cable 😁


----------



## captione

Finally reshelled my VE Monks Plus to a shell with an additional vent to the other stem hole. In no surprise, it increased the bass and somehow made the upper mid/lower treble almost strident. Putting a cotton ball to the stem hole made it less, and soundstage really increased by depth. Didn't glue the cotton in place because I wanna experiment on dampening materials for this shell.



Spoiler: Pictures






Yeah I know the paintjob is kinda botched but it reminds me of this meme and I think it's pretty epic:





I also recabled my Headroom MS16s and swapped the cable from my EMX500. This was a pain in the ass just dismantling those metal strain relief (or is it? Idk), I almost wrecked the EMX500 wire dismantling it. I also used the wire from my VE Monks for my EMX500, and made some worthwhile modifications. 


Spoiler: Picture


----------



## Themilkman46290

RikudouGoku said:


> Hi I gotten curious on DIY earbuds/iems, particularly earbuds since they seems to be the easiest to make. Is there any guide on how to actually assemble your own earbud and what do you need (besides the drivers and shell)?
> 
> Is a kit like this the only tool you need?
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B07Q4T12PH/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A2NRY4HOWAHJOF&psc=1
> ...


Well, I have made both, iems are more difficult because of space and if you make your own shell then the shell is expensive and takes many steps, but tuning was easier, earbuds on the other hand, easier to solder and fit in the shells but harder to tune


----------



## RikudouGoku

KevDzn said:


> Whoa, hold ya horses @RikudouGoku .....
> You're thinking too fast too far. I think maybe you can start by getting some cheap buds like vido, monks+.... and recable it with various cables like OFC, SPC etc. to get your experience meter started first.


Yeah that sounds like the smarter thing to do....trying out what is available in the market before I resort to DIY...seems to me that DIY stuff is when you already tried a lot of what is available on the market and then not finding what you want or just want it cheaper.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, really didnt expect that many answers. I will stick to buying buds from already assembled stuff at least for a while more.

DIY stuff aside, is there anyone that knows if there are any beryllium driver earbuds that is for sale?
I only seen this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000858070091.html
and ordered it since I got @ClieOS approval.


----------



## captione

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah that sounds like the smarter thing to do....trying out what is available in the market before I resort to DIY...seems to me that DIY stuff is when you already tried a lot of what is available on the market and then not finding what you want or just want it cheaper.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions everyone, really didnt expect that many answers. I will stick to buying buds from already assembled stuff at least for a while more.



I technically started with modding my MH755s, which turned out to be a big hurdle for a newb like me, and I started to branch out by rewiring my own vidos, monks, and some few drivers to save me from quarantine boredom and started to build up my soldering proficiency and experience like @KevDzn pointed out. It's a fun hobby for sure!


----------



## furyossa (Jun 4, 2020)

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah that sounds like the smarter thing to do....trying out what is available in the market before I resort to DIY...seems to me that DIY stuff is when you already tried a lot of what is available on the market and then not finding what you want or just want it cheaper.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions everyone, really didnt expect that many answers. I will stick to buying buds from already assembled stuff at least for a while more.
> 
> ...


On Ali you can find two version 15.4mm Beryllium coated drivers, 130ohm and 600ohm. It is cheaper to buy theses drivers and other parts separately and make your own earbuds, but first try with cheaper models as some have already recommended. You just have a chance to test theses Beryllium speakers before you decide to buy assembled models which in my opinion are expensive, at least double


----------



## robar

Interesting find by one of my DIY friends from Earbuds Anonymous - this is the page of the manufacturer of 19hz-21khz speaker series. Lost of technical details, of course I don't understand the chinese on the images, but translated what I could with google translate. Even includes a full DIY earbud assembly guide as well, like how to solder, how to use horseshoe foam etc. plus all of the variations and specs of the 19-21 lineup. https://m.1688.com/offer/41517409413.html?ptow=113d26e7c9a


----------



## captione

robar said:


> Interesting find by one of my DIY friends from Earbuds Anonymous - this is the page of the manufacturer of 19hz-21khz speaker series. Lost of technical details, of course I don't understand the chinese on the images, but translated what I could with google translate. Even includes a full DIY earbud assembly guide as well, like how to solder, how to use horseshoe foam etc. plus all of the variations and specs of the 19-21 lineup. https://m.1688.com/offer/41517409413.html?ptow=113d26e7c9a


Dang, that's a good find!


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Interesting find by one of my DIY friends from Earbuds Anonymous - this is the page of the manufacturer of 19hz-21khz speaker series. Lost of technical details, of course I don't understand the chinese on the images, but translated what I could with google translate. Even includes a full DIY earbud assembly guide as well, like how to solder, how to use horseshoe foam etc. plus all of the variations and specs of the 19-21 lineup. https://m.1688.com/offer/41517409413.html?ptow=113d26e7c9a


We need to go to that factory to tune this bad boy. We can also make some metal cases along the way..I'm sure they have good tools


----------



## jayeyeanne

captione said:


> Finally reshelled my VE Monks Plus to a shell with an additional vent to the other stem hole. In no surprise, it increased the bass and somehow made the upper mid/lower treble almost strident. Putting a cotton ball to the stem hole made it less, and soundstage really increased by depth. Didn't glue the cotton in place because I wanna experiment on dampening materials for this shell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What sorta paint did you use?


----------



## captione

jayeyeanne said:


> What sorta paint did you use?


I used a sloppy amount of red nail polish and painted the inside of the transparent shell and thinned it up with a bit of acetone. Only used it because i wanna cover up the nasty scrapes when I sanded off some parts of the shell tbh.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 5, 2020)

captione said:


> I used a sloppy amount of red nail polish and painted the inside of the transparent shell and thinned it up with a bit of acetone. Only used it because i wanna cover up the nasty scrapes when I sanded off some parts of the shell tbh.


Nice idea 
Edit: Peacock Audio use same technique for IEM. They paint resin shells from inside with multiple colors


----------



## willyboyaudio (Jun 7, 2020)

Hi friends, I built this some time ago, but just found the time to share some photos. These are the 19-21 drivers, I bought three pairs to find an exact matched-impedance pairs. 
They sound quite similar to my Elibuds Sabia V7, with better detail on the 19-21. Thanks robar for sharing this discovery. I can see no problem having this as my go to driver.

I have to say that this driver is not very robust and will not tolerate much heat from soldering. Initially I built them with black housing, and I thought, it's boring. I decided to go with white housing. I pried open as I normally do (see photo below from 3 weeks ago   ) and they just went kaput. The wire, being rather thick, gives some resistance when pulling out, but I was surprised to see the drivers just split open. Yoke and the pole piece came apart. I've never experienced this before with my builds and mods. Thought I'd share that with you here. Take care!






willyboyaudio said:


> P.S. This is an actual repair job, not just for photo purposes. I'll be back with more pics.


----------



## willyboyaudio (Jun 7, 2020)

robar said:


> Interesting find by one of my DIY friends from Earbuds Anonymous - this is the page of the manufacturer of 19hz-21khz speaker series. Lost of technical details, of course I don't understand the chinese on the images, but translated what I could with google translate. Even includes a full DIY earbud assembly guide as well, like how to solder, how to use horseshoe foam etc. plus all of the variations and specs of the 19-21 lineup. https://m.1688.com/offer/41517409413.html?ptow=113d26e7c9a



Thanks robar. I think we're quite familiar with this series of drivers. They have green, red, and purple dots. I just learned that the purple dot has titanium film. I attach the comparison graph for our convenience.


----------



## robar (Jun 7, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> Hi friends, I built this some time ago, but just found the time to share some photos. These are the 19-21 drivers, I bought three pairs to find an exact matched-impedance pairs.
> They sound quite similar to my Elibuds Sabia V7, with better detail on the 19-21. Thanks robar for sharing this discovery. I can see no problem having this as my go to driver.
> 
> I have to say that this driver is not very robust and will not tolerate much heat from soldering. Initially I built them with black housing, and I thought, it's boring. I decided to go with white housing. I pried open as I normally do (see photo below from 3 weeks ago   ) and they just went kaput. The wire, being rather thick, gives some resistance when pulling out, but I was surprised to see the drivers just split open. Yoke and the pole piece came apart. I've never experienced this before with my builds and mods. Thought I'd share that with you here. Take care!


Thanks for sharing your experience, I'm glad you like this driver too  I haven't experienced any problem with my speakers so far, soldered them in and out a couple of times with no damage. I was super careful though, so according to your warning, I'll keep this habit  I'm really interested in the titanium 32ohm version, and also regular the steel mesh variant.I really like the fit of my steel mesh N50 speaker + mx500 shell build, it almost makes alternative shells unnecessary as I can confidently walk around with this without the earbud getting loose all the time. 

I have a couple ideas in mind, but I didn't have the time lately (plus the glue is still in transit), will share stuff as soon as I get to create something interesting  I'm thinking about fixing the transparent dp100 shells for example, they sound midcentric and a bit muddy compared to my preferred shells in stock form. My guess is that they have too much venting, the sound is definitely similar to an overdone drill mod. Maybe blocking some openings would yield a more powerful and interesting sound,.


----------



## jayeyeanne

Hello everyone! I recently re-discovered the joy of earbuds for a rather silly reason: I believe my left ear hole is smaller than my right, so the bass response with IEMS tend to be heavier on my left if I do not adjust the fit. For earbuds, I just "hang" them in my ear and they just do what they do, nice and easy. Went back again to the Qian69 and ended up ordering a couple more widely recommended ones (RY4S UE, Snow Lotus 1.0+ and Tingo TC200).

Then I discovered this entire rabbit hole of DIY, driven by the curiosity of whether I could fix my mum's broken bluetooth earphones by recabling. I successfully fixed it, which gave me the confidence to start doing DIY. Now I have a Koss Porta Pro with in-line mic, and a MH755 with a proper cable length. Last night I built my very first earbuds using DIY MX500 drivers. With stock horseshoe foam, the highs were a little sibilant. From some trial and error, I found that cutting away one end of the horseshoe and leaving 1 circular shell vent exposed tamed the treble, bringing it close to RY4S UE that I adore very much.

I'm so very glad to have come across this thread where there has been so much very useful information to guide a newbie through this rabbit hole  thanks all of you! I have another 6 DIY earbuds in the pipeline, and will be tabulating my impressions of the various drivers along with what tuning I have done. In the meantime, may all of you stay safe, stay healthy and _solder_ on!


----------



## Jsingh4

Hi guys did anyone here tried to make earbud out of an iem with single DD, like did anyone try to make earbud out of blon 03 iem, if not will it work and sound good?


----------



## furyossa

Jsingh4 said:


> Hi guys did anyone here tried to make earbud out of an iem with single DD, like did anyone try to make earbud out of blon 03 iem, if not will it work and sound good?


I think that blon03 use 10mm DLC driver, so U can try with some shell (nozzle head) for 10-11mm driver. This driver is tuned for closed-shell, probably even if you put this
driver in some small "flat head" shell like Docomo or "Airpods"-like sound will not be the same.




For this model, I use *this driver*. For tuning this I spend double the time than with standard MX500 or PK models, but it wort it.


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> I think that blon03 use 10mm DLC driver, so U can try with some shell (nozzle head) for 10-11mm driver. This driver is tuned for closed-shell, probably even if you put this
> driver in some small "flat head" shell like Docomo or "Airpods"-like sound will not be the same.
> 
> 
> ...


That's pretty amazing, how did it sound?


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> That's pretty amazing, how did it sound?


It's sounds very balanced You can see frequency graph on Ali for this driver. But needs some twicking for sure. I will post later making of


----------



## furyossa (Jan 18, 2021)

This build is my first attempt to assemble and tune small 10mm driver. I already have a few small earbuds in my collection:
- _JBL T290 (metallic sound with harsh treble)_
- MSUR C210 (beryllium 8mm driver with overwhelming bass and lack of treble)
- QKZ AK1 (graphene driver - solid sound)
- RY20 (boomy bass with recessed mids)
The goal of this project was to achieve a balanced sound. My favorite designs are MEZE earbuds so I decided to use metal-wood combo for the shell.




This is the section of the shell. The original shell did not have a front vent.
Below, I will briefly explain my process.

1.Comparison between 15.4mm Titanium 640hm, 14.8mm PK2 and 10mm (9.2mm diameter) Titanium 48ohm drivers




2.Closer look of the shell parts




3. First of all, I drill front vent, next to the nozzle. From the inside, I use a file tool to remove sharp edges at the entrance of the nozzle.
Front vent reduces the pressure created in front of the driver and this way you can control the quantity of the bass.
The smaller diameter of the hole increase bass and larger diameter relaxes the bass.
Existing back vent is too small so I decided to widen the opening a bit. This vent affects also bass (less than front one) and sound-stage and eliminates closed sound.




4. In the frontal inner part of the shell, I added a cotton filter to reduce a bit reflective of the sound, then I punched one larger opening for the nozzle and one small
for the front vent. This can be clearly seen in image 7. The black ring, which is also seen here, is the double-side duct tape foam (1mm) on which the speaker rests and makes a small gap between the shell and driver. That way the driver can breathe and avoids the congested sound.




5. The cavity of a wooden shell is filled with a small amount of cotton to reduce a bit the cavity size and mitigate sound reflection from the back.




6. Inside the nozzle, I added small pieces of sponge to tame down the treble. For the final version, I remove these filters because treble is "settled down" after burn-in.




7. Because driver diameter is 9.2mm I added a blue shrinking tube to increase the diameter. The rubber also serves here to dampen vibration.





After all of that, I can tell that this DIY model can easily "cast a shadow" over models in my collection mentioned above.
It is obvious that this driver really has potential and works well with this shell

Final look


----------



## robar (Jun 11, 2020)

There are a couple of new stuff at NSC store, which look interesting. Not sure if you've seen them or discussed them already. What do you think?

Small vise for holding speakers/cable parts for DIY
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001123886620.html

Bell-shaped metal MMCX housing for 15.4mm speakers
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001134395270.html

Metal MMCX housing for both 14.8mm and 15.4mm speakers
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001123349490.html

5 pair of 19-21 32ohm red dot speaker for only 14usd (gosh, could have saved a bit money if this comes sooner)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001133273395.html

By the way, any opinions/experience with this cheap usb DAC? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32842992046.html I really like my ES9018K2M but it doesn't work with my android phone, would be nice to have something with decent power and SQ that I can connect to it via OTG. It's from the same store (and maker probably) and the specs (especially the 2vrms + sabre dac) already look much more convincing than those realtek dongles that are all the craze nowadays, for the same price.




furyossa said:


> This build is my first attempt to assemble and tune small 10mm driver.


Wow really nice project, thanks for the detailed info. I'd totally start to make IEMs as well, if my ears wouldn't hate them to the core haha.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> There are a couple of new stuff at NSC store, which look interesting. Not sure if you've seen them or discussed them already. What do you think?
> 
> Small vise for holding speakers/cable parts for DIY
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001123886620.html
> ...


Instead of Small vise I bought some chip metal grips, you can find it in any hardware store.





About the shells, I already talk about theses. Red and Blue I use for beryllium 600ohm and graphene 400ohm and silver one but without mini mmcx for Berillyum 130ohm.
About DAC. I don't have USB stick DAC in my collection, just SonataHD dongle, iBasso DC01, and SMSL IQ which can be used with PC or Phone. This DAC's works ok
with Snapdragon processors. I sold my Huawei Mate 10 because SonataHD didn't works, SMSL IQ always turn off when screen is off. Now with LG G7 these DAC's works but
LG already has nice quad DAC system and I don't need any other DAC. Also all this DAC's drain battery very fast.


----------



## uairekko

You guys are awesome..!


----------



## robar (Jun 11, 2020)

furyossa said:


> About the shells, I already talk about theses. Red and Blue I use for beryllium 600ohm and graphene 400ohm


You're right, I've found the post about those shells in the meantime, you've wrote about them in february.  I forgot about them because it wasn't available in my go-to stores back then and the price was insane, like 15usd per pair. Now, we can get two pairs for less than that at NSC  Quite an improvement I have to say haha, makes me think about trying those.

(About the dac: I would mainly use it with laptop, and sometimes with phone, it would be just a portable gear in my bag which I'm not scared to loose and fixes the very poor sound of those devices. I was checking the bluetooth dacs out as well but besides the fairly expensive btr4 and the shanling up2/up4, the other cheaper ones seem to be very weak for 3.5mm, maybe wouldn't even drive the titanium 64ohm properly. Same thing about those type-c dongles, I read in the reviews that 99% are anemic, weak and midcentric. The meizu pro seems nice but it's 40usd, certainly not in the throwaway category for me. This looks like a beefy little fella with decent output for a dozen bucks. Maybe better than my smsl x4 for my purpose  which I could finally sell then for like 2-3 times more)


----------



## furyossa (Jun 11, 2020)

robar said:


> You're right, I've found the post about those shells in the meantime, you've wrote about them in february.  I forgot about them because it wasn't available in my go-to stores back then and the price was insane, like 15usd per pair. Now, we can get two pairs for less than that at NSC  Quite an improvement I have to say haha, makes me think about trying those.
> 
> (About the dac: I would mainly use it with laptop, and sometimes with phone, it would be just a portable gear in my bag which I'm not scared to loose and fixes the very poor sound of those devices. I was checking the bluetooth dacs out as well but besides the fairly expensive btr4 and the shanling up2/up4, the other cheaper ones seem to be very weak for 3.5mm, maybe wouldn't even drive the titanium 64ohm properly. Same thing about those type-c dongles, I read in the reviews that 99% are anemic, weak and midcentric. The meizu pro seems nice but it's 40usd, certainly not in the throwaway category for me. This looks like a beefy little fella with decent output for a dozen bucks. Maybe better than my smsl x4 for my purpose  which I could finally sell then for like 2-3 times more)


Audirect has some cool dacs. Now is a very debatable question between Fiio BTR (newest model) and Audirect Beam2 in the term of SQ.


----------



## robar (Jun 11, 2020)

By the way, do you plan to buy something earbud-related in the upcoming aliexpress sale?



furyossa said:


> Audirect has some cool dacs. Now is a very debatable question between Fiio BTR (newest model) and Audirect Beam2 in the term of SQ.


Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check it out 



uairekko said:


> You guys are awesome..!


Welcome to the group! Feel free to share your DIY related experience if you'd like to, we're here to listen or help if necessary


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> By the way, do you plan to buy something earbud-related in the upcoming aliexpress sale?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check it out
> ...


In the last few months for my country shipping is very expensive: AliExpress Premium Shipping (37$) and DHL (47$ and 142$)


----------



## captione (Jun 12, 2020)

I just pryed the driver off from my VE Monk Lites because I had nothing to do, and it was my most unused pair due to it's weird coherence, boxy mids that doesn't fit with the treble performance, the bass is just perfectly dosed for my tastes too. So I opened it up and just by looking at the driver vents you could really tell that they used a thin paper, as if they're increasing the sensitivity, at least that's what I learned in a headphone voicing article, I still have alot to learn.

So I cut off small pieces of horseshoe foam and put it on the vent holes (can't really put the whole foam because it won't really fit), and voila, boxy mids gone. I could finally include this in my rotation.


Spoiler: Pictures


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> I just pryed the driver off from my VE Monk Lites because I had nothing to do, and it was my most unused pair due to it's weird coherence, boxy mids that doesn't fit with the treble performance, the bass is just perfectly dosed for my tastes too. So I opened it up and just by looking at the driver vents you could really tell that they used a thin paper, as if they're increasing the sensitivity, at least that's what I learned in a headphone voicing article, I still have alot to learn.
> 
> So I cut off small pieces of horseshoe foam and put it on the vent holes (can't really put the whole foam because it won't really fit), and voila, boxy mids gone. I could finally include this in my rotation.
> 
> ...


Next thing you can do: 
- if you want more mids just punch one or two holes on thin paper (only in case of recessed mids)
- also can consider changing the cable (in case of bad microphonics or better clarity)


----------



## robar (Jun 12, 2020)

captione said:


> I just pryed the driver off from my VE Monk Lites because I had nothing to do, and it was my most unused pair due to it's weird coherence, boxy mids that doesn't fit with the treble performance, the bass is just perfectly dosed for my tastes too. So I opened it up and just by looking at the driver vents you could really tell that they used a thin paper, as if they're increasing the sensitivity, at least that's what I learned in a headphone voicing article, I still have alot to learn.
> 
> So I cut off small pieces of horseshoe foam and put it on the vent holes (can't really put the whole foam because it won't really fit), and voila, boxy mids gone. I could finally include this in my rotation.
> 
> ...


Nice! Manufacturers often do like this with their cheap buds, that they only apply a thin layer on the speaker and leave vents open. I don't understand why, because the resulting sound will be almost always poor. (especially with these conventional type of shells). Simple tuning foam on the vents is often much better. I'm glad it worked out for you as well. I agree with @furyossa that you can tune it further by adjusting the white layer, if you find it necessary.  I have a Qian39 which has the same shell, and I would totally mod it if it weren't my daily sleeping bud. Maybe these shells even accept PK-style speakers, I don't know. But it would be awesome to have an earbud with this shell and upgraded speakers/tuning/cable. 

@furyossa Oh that's sad to hear, to my country shipping costs are fairly ok, some brands introduced 2-3usd fees for almost everything but many stores still offer free or very low shipping costs.


----------



## captione (Jun 12, 2020)

@robar @furyossa Thanks for the tips! Will definitely take note of that when I mod my other prebuild earbuds!

The midrange is already fine with the tuning foam, since the whole signature is somehow mid heightened to begin, although very "resonant" and boxy, and I'm very glad that bit of foam can save it.

I'm planning to reduce the lower treble but I'm thinking I should preserve what's left of the original signature, since I don't want samey sounding buds on my rotation.

I'm planning to change the cable too, but VE's cable is surprisingly good for my boring utilitarian tastes (I just like white or black with no thick cables weighing down such a cheap earbud), so I'll just add a ballpen spring to the jack strain relief and its golden for a while! I'll add pics on this post when I'm done.


Spoiler: Picture



Monk Lites and a VE cabled EMX500, both with a ballpen spring strain relief.


----------



## uairekko

Thankyou..here is my newest work for mmcx wooden buds.


----------



## uairekko

And here is the chamber..


----------



## captione

@uairekko Dang! That's a beautiful one! Keep sharing your works!


----------



## uairekko

Thankyouu.. 


captione said:


> @uairekko Dang! That's a beautiful one! Keep sharing your works!


----------



## furyossa (Jun 12, 2020)

uairekko said:


> Thankyouu..


Beauty


uairekko said:


> Thankyou..here is my newest work for mmcx wooden buds.


Congrats man. This is just so so beautiful organic form. I hope that ergonomics is also good. Is this wood? This is the nice example to see that theses 15.4 and 14.8mm drivers not need big inner cavity to sound good but in this case, to look good 😉. One question: you use 4 wires for each driver?


----------



## uairekko

furyossa said:


> Beauti
> 
> Congrats man. This is just so so beautiful organic form. I hope that ergonomics is also good. Is this wood? This is the nice example to see that theses 15.4 and 14.8mm drivers not need big inner cavity to sound good but in this case, to look good 😉. One question: you use 4 wires for each driver?


Indeed, it is more comfort than usual 15.4mm shell. Yes 4 wire each side to look good too..here is another art series..


----------



## furyossa

uairekko said:


> Indeed, it is more comfort than usual 15.4mm shell. Yes 4 wire each side to look good too..here is another art series..


This is "sick" in a good way of course👍Jewelry earbuds. Is this polymer clay + uv rasin combo or something else.  It reminds me a bit of the unusual design they have oBravo iems.


----------



## uairekko

furyossa said:


> This is "sick" in a good way of course👍Jewelry earbuds. Is this polymer clay + uv rasin combo or something else.  It reminds me a bit of the unusual design they have oBravo iems.


It is full resin, i am using polymer for the master.


----------



## Slater

How easy is it to separate the drivers from the plastic grilles? Any advice/tips would be appreciated!


----------



## captione

Slater said:


> How easy is it to separate the drivers from the plastic grilles? Any advice/tips would be appreciated!


What I did was sort of dismantling the plastic grill safely and gently on the sides with my wire cutter, avoiding the coil. After dismantling some plastic of the edges, the driver just falls off.


----------



## Slater

captione said:


> What I did was sort of dismantling the plastic grill safely and gently on the sides with my wire cutter, avoiding the coil. After dismantling some plastic of the edges, the driver just falls off.



Ok, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Just nibble away at the edges a little at a time with wire cutters, and the plastic grille would slowly pull apart.

Thanks for the advice!


----------



## robar (Jun 16, 2020)

Slater said:


> Ok, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Just nibble away at the edges a little at a time with wire cutters, and the plastic grille would slowly pull apart.
> 
> Thanks for the advice!


It depends on the speaker, probably it works for the well designed DIY ones like on the picture (sometimes it's even mentioned in the listing, that you can simply pull it out), but for many cheap ones (especially salvaged speakers from budget earbuds like ry4s ue etc) it's a death sentence because the membrane sticks onto the plastic and it separates from the metal part, snapping the voice coil as soon as you begin to pull out the speaker from the cover. No matter how I tried, it failed even when I peeled off the edges of the cover super carefully


----------



## Slater (Jun 16, 2020)

robar said:


> It depends on the speaker, probably it works for the well designed DIY ones like on the picture (sometimes it's even mentioned in the listing, that you can simply pull it out), but for many cheap ones (especially salvaged speakers from budget earbuds like ry4s ue etc) it's a death sentence because the membrane sticks onto the plastic and it separates from the metal part, snapping the voice coil as soon as you begin to pull out the speaker from the cover. No matter how I tried, it failed even when I peeled off the edges of the cover super carefully



I guess I’ll have to roll the dice and see. The driver I’ll be attempting is good quality (which I hope will increase my chance of success). But at the same time it is quite expensive, so destroying the driver would really ruin my day.

I hope it separates cleanly and does not self-destruct.

I don't want to use any acetone to loosen the glue, because one time in the past I believe acetone loosened the glue that also held on the membrane. So the driver came apart exactly in the manner you described.

That's why I’m hoping a mechanical means of extracting the driver (with wire nips etc) will yield success.


----------



## captione

robar said:


> It depends on the speaker, probably it works for the well designed DIY ones like on the picture (sometimes it's even mentioned in the listing, that you can simply pull it out), but for many cheap ones (especially salvaged speakers from budget earbuds like ry4s ue etc) it's a death sentence because the membrane sticks onto the plastic and it separates from the metal part, snapping the voice coil as soon as you begin to pull out the speaker from the cover. No matter how I tried, it failed even when I peeled off the edges of the cover super carefully


Oh yeah, this is definitely true. DIY drivers usually isn't glued that much or can be detachable to its grill but those prebuilt ones can be tricky af (FAAEAL sloppily glues ALOT, compared to how VE treated its Monk Plus), but it works on Vido drivers. 

Now that I mentioned Vidos, I'm in the process of making a custom 4-core 2-pin cable using my Vido spare cables and other metal component in other ones like the splitter, and it's my first time in my life making one so excuse the crappyness of the braids (literally just twisted it since my hands are still bad at braiding) 😆
Still WIP for now because I'm really broke at the moment, will definitely continue this project. 


Spoiler: Pictures 








The split part is still short in this picture, I made some adjustments for it afterwards. Also made a chin cinch from a clothes button, I needed to increase the hole size so I hand drilled them using a drill bit for wood working. (posting a picture of it later)


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 16, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> .



Finally taking some time to listen to these after burn-in. A very similar sound signature to my legit O.G. yuin PK2 drivers, with more bass and sub-bass (both quantity and extension). So I'd call these a warm, non-fatiguing, almost smooth sound signature with no sibilance or harshness.

A quick listen to a frequency sweep (20hz up) and these do make sub-bass at 20hz but it is somewhat rolled off and starts in the mid  30hz range. At least it is there.



Slater said:


> How easy is it to separate the drivers from the plastic grilles? Any advice/tips would be appreciated!





Slater said:


> I guess I’ll have to roll the dice and see. The driver I’ll be attempting is good quality (which I hope will increase my chance of success). But at the same time it is quite expensive, so destroying the driver would really ruin my day.
> 
> I hope it separates cleanly and does not self-destruct.
> 
> ...



I'd cut or crack the shell with small wire cutters on the opposite side of where the voice coil wires are. Then see if I could peel the shell back with some small pliers to 'release' the driver. IMO it is best to work away from the thin and delicate voice coil wires whenever possible.

Similar to how my diy 150Ω red film drivers cracked trying to fit them to a slightly too large shell. I peeled or bent the cover a bit and the driver fell out at this point.


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> Finally taking some time to listen to these after burn-in. A very similar sound signature to my legit O.G. yuin PK2 drivers, with better bass and sub-bass (both quantity and extension). So I'd call these a warm, non-fatiguing, almost smooth sound signature with no sibilance or harshness.
> 
> A quick listen to a frequency sweep (20hz up) and these do make sub-bass at 20hz but it is somewhat rolled off and starts in the mid  30hz range. At least it is there.
> 
> ...



Appreciate the tips


----------



## purplesun

Slater said:


> Ok, that’s exactly what I was thinking. Just nibble away at the edges a little at a time with wire cutters, and the plastic grille would slowly pull apart.


I do that as well. I always made sure I have spare covers, as the donor covers would be sacrificed in removing the drivers.
Can't wait to see your earbuds; having seen the things you did with IEMs.


----------



## assassin10000

A few more pics of my re-shelled PK2 drivers. Could not capture in the pics but a slight bit of the area filed to shrink the shell diameter down, extends beyond the edge of the covers.


----------



## assassin10000

Took my extra pair of 32Ω bass drivers and added some tuning foam to them. This style foam doesn't cover all the holes, so I used some small pieces cut off an another to do so.

It makes the covers want to pop off too easily on one of the two shells. I ended up adding 2 dots of e8000 glue on one side where it wanted to slip off. 



Unfortunately I don't have a second set of shells right now, so I can't A/B against the unmodified ones. Gonna give them some burn-in and see how they sound.


----------



## caracal (Jun 21, 2020)

Hi everyone!
I don't hate cables, especially when they are not getting snagged on something, but got curious if it's possible to modify some semi wireless earphones by switching the IEMs with earbuds? 
Does it depend on the driver impedance, the power provided by the battery or the need to open the bluetooth unit?

I still want to use cables mostly but think of the possibility to make some sort of hybrid for the activities which could involve snagging on something or discomfort from cables  

Just in case an example of the earphones to experiment with:


----------



## assassin10000

You could wire those to earbuds. Or buy a Bluetooth neckband with MMCX connectors to use MMCX earbuds with. And you can build or modify your earbuds to MMCX and use them with it.

I most often use MMCX buds on my BT20S as a TWS like this:


----------



## caracal

assassin10000 said:


> You could wire those to earbuds. Or buy a Bluetooth neckband with MMCX connectors to use MMCX earbuds with. And you can build or modify your earbuds to MMCX and use them with it.
> 
> I most often use MMCX buds on my BT20S as a TWS like this:


But are there any major issues with power and sound quality?


----------



## assassin10000

caracal said:


> But are there any major issues with power and sound quality?



Depends on the drivers I suppose. The BT20S has plenty for mine, I play my most sensitive buds on volume 1 of 24. My current highest resistance bud is 150Ω and has no issues (6-10 volume level). 

A quality neckband should have no issues either.

I don't have any of the 300, 400, 400 & 600Ω drivers or buds to try with it.


----------



## willyboyaudio

Hi guys, just finished building these as gift for friends:


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 24, 2020)

My replacement N55 14.8mm driver showed up a couple days ago.



Initial thoughts, fairly well balanced. Neutral with a hint of warmth (or tilting towards warm). Sub-bass does start rolling off around 37/38 hz. Upper mids/lower treble is not shouty and no sibilance. Good clarity, not veiled or muddy.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jun 26, 2020)

Did some more listening after burning in over night. The have a warm tilt in the lower mids, despite a lack of some sub-bass. No bleed and not muddy. Highs are smooth and I'm not getting any fatigue (had them on for 6-7 hours today).

_________________


Of course, now that sales are over and the replacement n55 driver is installed... I find these, 40Ω titanium 14.8mm drivers.

drivers' size: 14.8mm
mesh cover: 16.35mm
thickness: 6.8mm (mesh cover included)
Frequency: full range 20-20000 KHZ
Rated power: 0.005 W
Rated resistance: 40（Ω）
Sensitivity: 113 dB/W
Distortion: 1 TMD%
Postive pole: red dot
Feature:  deep bass, smooth sound, clear vocal. recommended to use with mobile phone directly.




https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4001146843093.html



Spoiler: Frequency Response Graphs



Both these 40Ω Ti & 64Ω N55 have MFG frequency response graphs.

64Ω N55


40Ω Ti


The N55 bass roll off is way more present than the graph shows. And the Ti appears to have a massive treble roll off but as this is an earbud, it may not sound bad. Hmmm.




Anyone else want to take a shot at this?


----------



## jayeyeanne

Posting this here for anyone who might be interested in starting a DIY earbud project:

"What I learnt after building 5 earbuds"
1. Pre-tin your solder tips!
2. Solder flux helps A LOT
3. To unsolder cables from drivers, wet the solder tip with a tiny amount of molten tin first, then make contact with the solder pad
4. The sound of the earbud shell and cover stuck together by tape (was doing this for ease of re-tuning) vs actually snapped together is mighty different (snapping together significantly reduces mid-bass and increases treble)
5. PK shells are much more tricky to work with vs MX500 shells. My PK shells (from DIY Earphone Tribe Store) came with holes so tiny, my cables could not go through (had to enlarge using a tiny strip of sandpaper). In contrast, MX500 shells were usable straight out of the bag
6. That said, the comfort of PK shells is unbeatable
7. Tuning foam: the thicker it is, the more accentuated mids and highs will be
8. Shell vent holes: more holes = more mid bass, less extended highs
9. Full foams: tames highs, adds more mid-bass
10. Donut foams: adds more mid-bass with negligible effect on highs, but slightly pushes mids back
11. The following are some impressions comparative to some of the more popular earbuds:


DIY drivers I have triedImpressions (based on my opinion)"DIY EMX500 earphone Speaker 15.4mm speaker HiFi Bass Sound quality Speaker unit MX500 Earphone accessories" from JieTuStock sound (with stock tuning foam) has too extended treble. Exposing 1 round vent hole tames it, bringing the overall signature closer to RY4S UE but with slightly more mid-bass"2pcs 15.4mm 32 ohm Low Frequency Headphone Driver Speakers with Shell Case N50 Magnetic Flat Headphone DIY for MX500" from NSCStock sound (with stock tuning foam) has too extended treble. Fixable with full Hiegi foams. Resulting treble extension similar to RY4S UE, but mids more recessed and less sub-bass."Headphone DIY 15.4mm Speaker Unit 32 Ohm Heavy Bass Headphone Loudspeakers DIY 98.5db" from NSC Audio StoreStock sound (with stock tuning foam) has very extended treble. Fixed with exposing 1 round vent hole + full Hiegi foam. Resulting treble slightly more than RY4S, and significantly more recessed mids (but not as recessed as Qian 69). Mid-bass: more than RY4S but less than Qian 69. Sub-bass: less than RY4S, but more than Qian 69."14.8MM speaker unit 32ohms pk1 red film 2pcs" from DIY Earphone Tribe StoreStock sound had very little bass. Exposed both vent slots to try to increase bass response, resulting in mid-bass similar to Qian 69 but less sub-bass. Mids are much more forward than Qian 69 but not as forward as RY4S. Treble is less extended than Qian 69."orinigal SR PRO unit YUIN SR earphone speaker unit white 16 ohms 1pair=2pcs" from Chitty's StoreStock sound treble too rolled-off and mids too recessed. Fixed this with blocking off the top vent slot. Resulting treble extension still less extended than Qian 69, but blocking more vents affected bass too much so I left it at that. Mids much more forward than Qian 69 but less forward than RY4S. More mid-bass than Qian 69 but slightly less sub-bass.Special off-the-shelf earbud mention (due to its peculiarity): MEMT T5Sound signature is very very fit dependant. Mids sound very very recessed initially (when I was wearing it all wrong), but after angling the front vents to point more directly into my earholes (almost wearing it like an IEM), the overall sound signature is actually pretty decent (relatively neutral with mid-bass focus). Fixed it a bit more by blocking 75% of the vent slot with a tiny piece of earbud foam.

Resulting sound: treble extension still less than Qian 69, but mids comparatively forward with more mid-bass and sub-bass than Qian 69.

Hope this helps as a guide for anyone starting out!


----------



## captione

Does anyone have the experience of dismantling KZ's Cables, especially the mic version? The right side had another insulated color coded core with some sort of fibre insulation(?) wrapped in normal copper wire, and the left side was very different, with none of that color coded core. The problem is, it had a lot OF enamel and insulation, and burning them just won't make a decent connection to power the driver. Do you guys have any tips to properly remove those things? I've tried scratching with blades and sandpaper but it still doesn't make a connection.


----------



## jayeyeanne

captione said:


> Does anyone have the experience of dismantling KZ's Cables, especially the mic version? The right side had another insulated color coded core with some sort of fibre insulation(?) wrapped in normal copper wire, and the left side was very different, with none of that color coded core. The problem is, it had a lot OF enamel and insulation, and burning them just won't make a decent connection to power the driver. Do you guys have any tips to properly remove those things? I've tried scratching with blades and sandpaper but it still doesn't make a connection.



I ran into the exact same issue, both with KZ cables and an old Audio Technica IEM cable that comes with mic. Since I was just using the cables temporarily, I just snipped off the additional wire and soldered the rest of the wires accordingly. It didn't affect the drivers nor the in-line controls and mic. Hoping to find out as well the purpose of that extra wire.


----------



## willyboyaudio

jayeyeanne said:


> Posting this here for anyone who might be interested in starting a DIY earbud project:
> 
> "What I learnt after building 5 earbuds"
> 1. Pre-tin your solder tips!
> ...


Thanks for sharing. I've learned after building my first 5 earbuds that I can't stop building earbuds. 
Please post some photos of the buds you've built, we love pics..


----------



## captione

jayeyeanne said:


> 7. Tuning foam: the *thicker* it is, the more accentuated mids and highs will be


Thanks to this particular tip, I had the idea of thickening VE Monk Plus driver's horseshoe foam by dabbling shoe glue on them carefully. It definitely lessened some of the warmth and made alot of good change to the dark signature. I jumped with joy when I could finally hear some sweet sharp sparkle in the highs, insane how a hack like that could even work. 👌


jayeyeanne said:


> I ran into the exact same issue, both with KZ cables and an old Audio Technica IEM cable that comes with mic. Since I was just using the cables temporarily, I just snipped off the additional wire and soldered the rest of the wires accordingly. It didn't affect the drivers nor the in-line controls and mic. Hoping to find out as well the purpose of that extra wire.


Thank god, someone has experienced my own plight of merely tinning the right wires of KZ Cables 😂.
Maybe @Slater could help


----------



## jayeyeanne (Jun 25, 2020)

captione said:


> Thanks to this particular tip, I had the idea of thickening VE Monk Plus driver's horseshoe foam by dabbling shoe glue on them carefully. It definitely lessened some of the warmth and made alot of good change to the dark signature. I jumped with joy when I could finally hear some sweet sharp sparkle in the highs, insane how a hack like that could even work. 👌



Ah, the joys of tinkering! 



captione said:


> Thank god, someone has experienced my own plight of merely tinning the right wires of KZ Cables 😂.
> Maybe @Slater could help



Yes, imagine the shock I had when I had stripped away the insulation to reveal this strange wire, thinking to myself "what on earth do I do now with this?"


----------



## Slater

captione said:


> Thanks to this particular tip, I had the idea of thickening VE Monk Plus driver's horseshoe foam by dabbling shoe glue on them carefully. It definitely lessened some of the warmth and made alot of good change to the dark signature. I jumped with joy when I could finally hear some sweet sharp sparkle in the highs, insane how a hack like that could even work. 👌
> 
> Thank god, someone has experienced my own plight of merely tinning the right wires of KZ Cables 😂.
> Maybe @Slater could help



Gotta use the aspirin tablet method


----------



## assassin10000

assassin10000 said:


> Did some more listening after burning in over night. The have a warm tilt in the lower mids, despite a lack of some sub-bass. No bleed and not muddy. Highs are smooth and I'm not getting any fatigue (had them on for 6-7 hours today).
> 
> _________________
> 
> ...



Couldn't resist, ordered it. Guess I'll answer my own question .


Not for myself but found another 15.4mm housing. Features the upgraded style MMCX sockets.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000848549869.html


----------



## captione (Jun 26, 2020)

Thanks @Slater, will definitely use that on other works but is Aspilet gonna work? Not really sure tho, I might buy some actual aspirin next time.

@jayeyeanne btw I found out how the wiring for the kz mic cable actually works:
So basically, the ones with the red core with the wrapped copper wire was actually for the drivers only (red core for pos, copper for gnd), I think KZ was still attaching the blue core wires that seemingly only hooks up on mic controls just for aesthetic and consistency reasons, as if their cables wasn't ugly enough lol, it managed to piss me off just figuring out and somehow just by prying open the mic controls I found out about it. Could've done that earlier and now my split length is short thanks to various wire stripping lol.


Spoiler: Pictures


----------



## Slater

captione said:


> Thanks @Slater, will definitely use that on other works but is Aspilet gonna work? Not really sure tho, I might buy some actual aspirin next time.



It’s gotta be plain, regular old school aspirin. I buy the cheapest, most generic stuff possible. It’s not even a dollar for a big bottle. I only use it for soldering.


----------



## purplesun (Jun 26, 2020)

In relation to enamel wire soldering with aspirin; I found the 75 comments at the back this 2016 hackaday article quite interesting/amusing.

Iron Tips: Soldering Headphones And Enamel Wire

I might try some of the ideas. Btw, I use the lighter method but it's messy.


----------



## Slater (Jun 26, 2020)

purplesun said:


> In relation to enamel wire soldering with aspirin; I found the 75 comments at the back this 2016 hackaday article quite interesting/amusing.
> 
> Iron Tips: Soldering Headphones And Enamel Wire
> 
> I might try some of the ideas. Btw, I use the lighter method but it's messy.



I never really had luck with a lighter. Always left behind too much oxidation. I saw that comment about the alcohol dip to remove the oxidation; perhaps I’ll give that a try next time and see if it’s worthwhile.

The aspirin method definitely causes some noxious fumes. I remember the first time I ever tried it, I unknowingly got a big whiff of the fumes and about passed out lol. It works awesome though.

The easiest way by far is to use a solder pot, but unless I work in a factory tinning enameled wire all day, I’m not going to mess with waiting on a solder pot.


----------



## purplesun

Slater said:


> I never really had luck with a lighter. Always left behind too much oxidation. I saw that comment about the alcohol dip to remove the oxidation; perhaps I’ll give that a try next time and see if it’s worthwhile.
> The aspirin method definitely causes some noxious fumes. I remember the first time I ever tried it, I unknowingly got a big whiff of the fumes and about passed out lol. It works awesome though.
> The easiest way by far is to use a solder pot, but unless I work in a factory tinning enameled wire all day, I’m not going to mess with waiting on a solder pot.


None of the stuff related to soldering is truly safe anyway. From solder burns to singed hair (fingers, eyebrow). Nothing a tube of Savlon didn't fix. And have a fan blowing, ALWAYS! I very nearly bought a solder pot once just for melting wire enamel - but thought that was going too far! 

For the lighter method that I do: Have a deft hand, and do it under very bright lights to see the goop melting and exposing the copper - and stop immediately. And don't singe your eyebrow!!!. I use pre-injection medical alcohol swab to clean it up. But it is always messy, and I'm never happy with whatever solder joint I make with it. Will try the asprin method next time I do another earphone wire.


----------



## assassin10000

This is what I do.

Clamp the wire in a soldering heat sink with only 3-4mm sticking out. 
I put a little flux on the end of the wire.
Get a ball of solder on the tip of the iron. 
Then dip 1-2mm of the wire in the solder.

It melts, cleans and tins the ends. Plus it keeps the wire flexible near the ends, if you don't use a heat sink 5-8mm of the coating hardens and becomes way less flexible.


----------



## assassin10000

Here's a DIY I did for another member by request. He had a couple pairs of NTT Docomo's he wanted MMCX converted.

Initial fit, not enough thread engagement for me to feel comfortable.



Took some more off the ends but only to the level of the end of the port/vent, to keep tuning changes minimal to none.


Made wiring to length and tinned per my prior post . Soldered connectors and drivers.


Finished. Black housings are missing vent foam, so you can see the backside of the driver and the wires through the vents. It's to be transferred from another set by the owner when they arrive.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 27, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Here's a DIY I did for another member by request. He had a couple pairs of NTT Docomo's he wanted MMCX converted.
> 
> Initial fit, not enough thread engagement for me to feel comfortable.
> 
> ...



Thanks, @assassin10000.

I can only solder the driver, but everyone in the DIY Earbuds thread here, nice to meet you all.

NTT Docomo earbuds are the best earbuds for me. And I wanted to re-cable them and try more, so I asked him to convert two sets of NTT Docomo earbuds to be MMCXed.
I heard from him that he finished this work only in 5 hours!

They haven't arrived to me yet, but the pics look perfect.
I'm going to switch to various cables and enjoy them.


----------



## willyboyaudio (Jun 28, 2020)

robar said:


> I'll probably try those 150ohms then  The photos are somewhat confusing on that listing at cklewis, I suppose this is the same and the pics here show how it looks in real life, isn't it? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979616405.html


Hi robar, did you end up buying this 150 Ohm driver? Please tell me what you think, especially compared to (our) favorite 19-21 32 Ohm driver. Thank you.


----------



## Sunstealer

I've been making my own cables for a while and took a punt on some cheap earbuds during the most recent AE sale. Picked up some pre-wired MMCX sockets too.

Here are my first efforts:





The Vidos were first as a practice run as I don't mind the sound but the MX shells are a little too bulky for my ears. With a balanced SPC, the sound is a lot brighter but has a good soundstage. I'll try double foams and/or a balanced copper cable later on.

The B40s are a better fit in my ears and again sound a lot clearer with a balanced SPC cable. I didn't want to bore out the port too much as I wanted to keep the side markings. I should have sanded off the bottom but didn't feel like it. The MMCX sockets I bought were relatively long but narrow.

Rather than wait for new PK shells to be delivered I've ordered some Nokia HS23 to mod (I understand they might be PK type shells?) and also a pair of Nokia WH108 which are bell-type and might suit me. Still waiting for some RY4S (probably redundant for me due to the MX shell) and Edifier H180s.

***PICTURE WARNING*** Could anyone help with telling me how big the driver is in this very old pair of Sony earbuds? I do not have a model number. I reckon it is 16mm but I do not have a very accurate tape measure. I'd like to transplant them into a PK shell if possible. Sorry about the state of them, they have been in a box for at least 15 years. They work fine but now I'm in a modding mood.....


----------



## willyboyaudio (Jun 28, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> Hi robar, thanks very much for your inspiration as well. You brought a fine point of 'aligning' the levels at 1kHz. It does make them easier to compare. Sorry I mistype it 'normalizing' on the first graph, this is the same one from the previous post, just aligned at 1kHz. I modified the mounting a little bit to allow hands-free measurement, and came with the the second graph. In real life, subjectively, the full foam does not sound as dark as the graph would suggest. I'm trying to standardize my method now: (1) have a SPL 50dB scale, (2) align 1kHz at 50dB, I think they make it much nicer to see and easier to interpret.


Hi Friends, especially @robar and @GREQ -
I think I've successfully gotten rid of the excessive hump around 2-4kHz on my previous posts. I still use the V7 as the baseline, and note that I include my measurement from two months ago, which is fairly consistent with the new measurement, so that's a good thing. I took three measurements for each earbuds and show the averages only.

Traceless is from NiceHCK: https://bit.ly/3g2Ruf9
Clear Blue is my own creation: https://willyboy.home.blog/2020/06/27/clear-blue-diy-earbuds/

Any comment and input are welcome. Thanks!


----------



## GREQ

willyboyaudio said:


> Hi Friends, especially @robar and @GREQ -
> I think I've successfully gotten rid of the excessive hump around 2-4kHz on my previous posts. I still use the V7 as the baseline, and note that I include my measurement from two months ago, which is fairly consistent with the new measurement, so that's a good thing. I took three measurements for each earbuds and show the averages only.
> 
> Traceless is from NiceHCK: https://bit.ly/3g2Ruf9
> ...


That's looking great now!


----------



## jogawag

Sunstealer said:


> ...
> 
> ***PICTURE WARNING*** Could anyone help with telling me how big the driver is in this very old pair of Sony earbuds? I do not have a model number. I reckon it is 16mm but I do not have a very accurate tape measure. I'd like to transplant them into a PK shell if possible. Sorry about the state of them, they have been in a box for at least 15 years. They work fine but now I'm in a modding mood.....



About the very old pair of Sony earbuds.
First of all, I think that the model number is written small on the branch part of the cable or the plug part.
If you can find the model number and find it on the site below, or a similar model number, the size of the diaphragm is also listed.
http://20cheaddatebase.web.fc2.com/SONY/sonyindex.html


----------



## Sunstealer

jogawag said:


> About the very old pair of Sony earbuds.
> First of all, I think that the model number is written small on the branch part of the cable or the plug part.
> If you can find the model number and find it on the site below, or a similar model number, the size of the diaphragm is also listed.
> http://20cheaddatebase.web.fc2.com/SONY/sonyindex.html


Thank you very much sir/ madam! I put on my loupes and there it was, on the splitter - MDR-ED21.

The closest on the website database is an MDR-ED238 with a 16mm driver. 

Next question - are there any shells that would accommodate this driver?


----------



## jogawag

Sunstealer said:


> Thank you very much sir/ madam! I put on my loupes and there it was, on the splitter - MDR-ED21.
> 
> The closest on the website database is an MDR-ED238 with a 16mm driver.
> 
> Next question - are there any shells that would accommodate this driver?



I confirmed that there is "16 mm driver units" in the product description on amazon.com below.
https://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDR-ED21LP-Fontopia-In-The-Ear-Headphones/dp/B000094Q77

Next, regarding the shell for the 16mm driver, I found only the set with the driver as shown below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33027019235.html
It is unknown if it is possible to negotiate with the store owner.

Or maybe anyone else on this thread knows!


----------



## Slater

jogawag said:


> I confirmed that there is "16 mm driver units" in the product description on amazon.com below.
> https://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDR-ED21LP-Fontopia-In-The-Ear-Headphones/dp/B000094Q77
> 
> Next, regarding the shell for the 16mm driver, I found only the set with the driver as shown below.
> ...



This shell says “16MM units must have pouches can only be fixed”, whatever the heck that means.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_dWpzFqs


----------



## assassin10000

Sunstealer said:


> Thank you very much sir/ madam! I put on my loupes and there it was, on the splitter - MDR-ED21.
> 
> The closest on the website database is an MDR-ED238 with a 16mm driver.
> 
> Next question - are there any shells that would accommodate this driver?



This is where having a cheap digital caliper (that goes to hundreths of a MM, ie .01mm resolution) would tell you what fits. You could measure the actual driver and the inside of the covers to check clearance. I'm not sure if the actual driver is 16mm or the outside of it's cover.


Here are the 'new' style shells like the B40, cover is 16.7mm O.D. They are larger than the original style PK shells, which O.D is 16.1mm.


----------



## Sunstealer

Thanks guys. I'm waiting on a pair of Edifier H180 to see if they fit any better than the B40. If not, I'll pick up some of those new style pk2 shells and experiment from there. A digital caliper sounds like a good idea too.


----------



## assassin10000

Last week I saw this tear down of the Sabbat X12 Pro's on 52audio. 
http://www.52audio.com/archives/6752.html





With this look at how they are internally, I decided to try modifying my Sabbat X12 Pro's to use standard shape drivers and covers. Instead of the original earpod shape ones as those are not 100% comfortable for me, even after I reshaped them.

I did this mostly because I like how much more natural earbuds sound when I want to hear the environment around me compared to the 'ambient' modes I've heard on other TWS (WF-1000XM3 and Buds+). That and I wanted an even more compact package than using my BT20S + MMCX earbud of choice.




Cover off to check clearances and see how much wire was available. No pic of it but the circuit board and battery both lift right up.




Driver and cover off, they come off together. No need to separate them. I pulled the wires out a bit more, for enough length for soldering. 

I think the factory has them pulled through the other side to solder to the circuit board. They probably install the drivers first then the circuit board and battery.






Here you can see a slight bit of reshaping the housing where it meets the edge of the driver cover. As the housing edge is a bit wider and overlaps the driver cover a little. 

After trying the drivers with no additional port and also a .8mm port, I ended up with an additional 1.0mm port (for now). It can be seen at about the 1 o'clock position from the factory vent located at the bottom of the housing.

The inner lip is smaller than the 14.8mm driver covers, so I used e8000 glue in 4 spots about 3-4mm long to secure the drivers. Some of the residue is visible as I've had the drivers on and off a few times.




Complete (for now  ). 

I will probably try a few other speaker drivers. It's matter of trying to find a good match with the X12 Pro electronics. As a TWS their internal amp is not near as strong as my BT20S, so higher sensitivity and 32Ω or lower impedance is most likely wanted. The original drivers are 32Ω (verified with my multimeter) and sensitivity is listed as 120db.

I used my extra pair of 32Ω bass unit drivers, as the original X12 ones were lacking some bass. Even with earbud foams I had to EQ them quite a bit. I still do but not as badly.


----------



## willyboyaudio

GREQ said:


> That's looking great now!


Thanks a lot, GREQ, for your input helps me to get there.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 7, 2020)

I 've got MMCXed docomo earbuds from @assassin10000! Maybe I am only one person who has black and white MMCXed docomo earbuds in the world(???).

I'm very satisfied with everything about  MMCXed docomo earbuds outlook and sound now.
Thanks @assassin10000 very much.

I attach a pic with the single crystal copper cable and silver coating cable connected.


----------



## jayeyeanne

@willyboyaudio as requested, here are pics of my builds. This is really addictive, and I've got another 3 more builds in the pipeline 😅


----------



## furyossa

willyboyaudio said:


> Hi guys, just finished building these as gift for friends:


Love the type of shell of your B&W edition earbuds. I bought a silver red and blue variant a while back. For now, only silver variant is combined with 
a handmade wooden piece.




And this is a complete version


----------



## willyboyaudio (Jun 30, 2020)

jayeyeanne said:


> @willyboyaudio as requested, here are pics of my builds. This is really addictive, and I've got another 3 more builds in the pipeline 😅


Amazing work!! How did you stick those artworks to the housing? Are those stickers?
You have some fine artistic touch. Very pleasant to look at. I'm sure they sound as good as they look.


----------



## willyboyaudio (Jun 30, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Love the type of shell of your B&W edition earbuds. I bought a silver red and blue variant a while back. For now, only silver variant is combined with
> a handmade wooden piece.
> 
> And this is a complete version


Looks like some high-end stuff there! Amazing.
In its standard form, that housing boosted up the mid-high too much for me. Is that your experience also?


----------



## furyossa

willyboyaudio said:


> Looks like some high-end stuff there! Amazing.
> In its standard form, that housing boosted up the mid-high too much for me. Is that your experience also?


Nope. By enlarging inner space you will reduce mid-high because the reflection of the sound wave is not the same, it's slower. Also, you will get a more spacious sound.
Resonance in the wood chamber is also present which gives a little flavor to the sound signature. In short original shell simulate "closed-back" sound and modded 
(with large cavity) "open-back" sound


----------



## assassin10000

assassin10000 said:


> This is what I do.
> 
> Clamp the wire in a soldering heat sink with only 3-4mm sticking out.
> I put a little flux on the end of the wire.
> ...



Here's some pics I snapped last night tinning some wires. There is the tiniest little bit of flux on the ends sticking out of the heat sink in the top pic. In the bottom pic you can see the coating has melted back and bubbled just past the solder, this can be easily scraped off with a fingernail.


----------



## assassin10000

assassin10000 said:


> Last week I saw this tear down of the Sabbat X12 Pro's on 52audio.
> http://www.52audio.com/archives/6752.html
> 
> 
> ...





A few days ago I tried another driver on my X12 Proo's, a pair of 'Sunrise SR2' 16Ω drivers (from chitty's). I'm not a huge fan of these drivers sound signature to begin with but figured since it is a low impedance driver it was worth a shot. They didn't sound very good on the X12 Pro.


A little while ago I swapped my Yuin PK2 drivers on. Much better. Still lacking a bit of bass/sub-bass but this is mostly due to the weak amp in the TWS. Cleaner and better than the ETS and SR2 drivers.


----------



## jayeyeanne

assassin10000 said:


> A few days ago I tried another driver on my X12 Proo's, a pair of 'Sunrise SR2' 16Ω drivers (from chitty's). I'm not a huge fan of these drivers sound signature to begin with but figured since it is a low impedance driver it was worth a shot. They didn't sound very good on the X12 Pro.
> 
> 
> A little while ago I swapped my Yuin PK2 drivers on. Much better. Still lacking a bit of bass/sub-bass but this is mostly due to the weak amp in the TWS. Cleaner and better than the ETS and SR2 drivers.



Just out of curiosity, would blocking some of the driver holes increase bass?


----------



## assassin10000

jayeyeanne said:


> Just out of curiosity, would blocking some of the driver holes increase bass?



The internal holes? No, it would reduce.

The external? I've never tried. I suppose if you block the part pointed at the concha and leave the part pointed into the ear canal there could be an increase. But it would be an increase across the board, like turning the volume up.


----------



## Sunstealer

Well I accidentally destroyed those Sony MDRED21, stabbed the clear film throughout the driver cover. I couldn't get a good fit either. I recabled some bundled Nokia HS23 with the B40 cable and the results are passable - male vocals a little honky but warm bass and a good fit for my ears. Rewired a pair of Samsung earbuds (from J cable to an old B&O Play Y cable) - bass-lite but good mids and treble.

MMCX modded a pair of B&O Play buds that were bundled with an LG phone - with a copper cable the results are great - mild sub bass rolloff, great mid bass, neutral mids and treble. 

The NiceHCK B40 is an outstanding bud for the money - does anyone know what driver it uses? With double doughnut foams I get the best fit. Given the PK2 form factor, presumably I could slot in a 14.8mm PK1 driver (e.g. the 150Ohm PK1)?


----------



## jogawag

Sunstealer said:


> ...
> The NiceHCK B40 is an outstanding bud for the money - does anyone know what driver it uses? With double doughnut foams I get the best fit. Given the PK2 form factor, presumably I could slot in a 14.8mm PK1 driver (e.g. the 150Ohm PK1)?



I heard from Jim that the name of NiceHCK B40 driver is "PET Diaphragm Dynamic Driver" at the fukubukuro sale of the B40.

> Given the PK2 form factor, presumably I could slot in a 14.8mm PK1 driver (e.g. the 150Ohm PK1)?
The Yuin PK shell and driver size are slightly small than the B40 shell (or original docomo shell) size. So to slot in a 14.8mm PK1 driver needs a little extra glue.


----------



## Sunstealer

Thanks for the info. I've ordered some pk1/2 drivers and empty shells for experimentation.


----------



## assassin10000

Sunstealer said:


> The NiceHCK B40 is an outstanding bud for the money - does anyone know what driver it uses? With double doughnut foams I get the best fit. Given the PK2 form factor, presumably I could slot in a 14.8mm PK1 driver (e.g. the 150Ohm PK1)?



Not sure. Maybe these?
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32973733570.html



Sunstealer said:


> Thanks for the info. I've ordered some pk1/2 drivers and empty shells for experimentation.



As @jogawag said, the B40 uses a slightly larger shell than most 14.8mm drivers fit. I have pics/measurements of the cheap $4-5 for 5 shells posted here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15707308

They can be made to work but it takes some effort.


If you want ones that fit most of the 14.8mm drivers, those shells are $20-25 for 3 pair.


----------



## Sunstealer

I had ordered 10 pairs of the non-original PK shells but have changed it to the 3 pairs that are more likely to fit the drivers I ordered:

150 Ohm PK1

32 Ohm PK2

Thanks again for your advice.


----------



## assassin10000

Sunstealer said:


> I had ordered 10 pairs of the non-original PK shells but have changed it to the 3 pairs that are more likely to fit the drivers I ordered:
> 
> 150 Ohm PK1
> 
> ...



No problem. It's a small/niche market and not a well known possible problem.


That 150Ω PK1 is the vocal or mid/high centric and may be bass light. I haven't tried it personally though.


The well regarded (balanced or w/bass) redfilm 150Ω pk1 driver is sold out. One side of mine died recently. Anyone have 1 good redfilm PK1 driver they'd sell/trade?


----------



## jogawag

assassin10000 said:


> No problem. It's a small/niche market and not a well known possible problem.
> 
> 
> That 150Ω PK1 is the vocal or mid/high centric and may be bass light. I haven't tried it personally though.
> ...



I found two pages selling red film 150Ω pk1 driver on Taobao. The first page seems cheaper.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572623588063
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=569489997267


----------



## assassin10000

jogawag said:


> I found two pages selling red film 150Ω pk1 driver on Taobao. The first page seems cheaper.
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572623588063
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=569489997267



Hmmmm. I've never bought from Taobao. Might be worth the risk if I can find a good service.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> No problem. It's a small/niche market and not a well known possible problem.
> 
> 
> That 150Ω PK1 is the vocal or mid/high centric and may be bass light. I haven't tried it personally though.
> ...


Yup. "RedFilm" is the best 14.8mm DIY driver on Ali. Only Chitty's store and DIY Earphone Tribe Store has this driver but 32ohm version.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32776696327.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32251985660.html
They have a 150ohm  model but with a shell. Maybe these people from the Chitty's store want to sell it separately as a kit, like DOCOMO shell and PK2 driver.
PK1 and PK2 sound great in DOCOMO shells.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Yup. "RedFilm" is the best 14.8mm DIY driver on Ali. Only Chitty's store and DIY Earphone Tribe Store has this driver but 32ohm version.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32776696327.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32251985660.html
> They have a 150ohm  model but with a shell. Maybe these people from the Chitty's store want to sell it separately as a kit, like DOCOMO shell and PK2 driver.
> PK1 and PK2 sound great in DOCOMO shells.



Already contacted chitty's store, the listing is up but 'out of stock'. I asked and they have none currently, no ETA.


How is the 32Ω pk2 redfilm driver? I've got it in my wishlist but haven't ordered it.


I will say so far that N55 64Ω is my 2nd favorite 14.8mm driver after the Redfilm 150Ω PK1 driver.


----------



## jogawag

assassin10000 said:


> Hmmmm. I've never bought from Taobao. Might be worth the risk if I can find a good service.


Taobao can only speak Chinese, so even if I used Google Translate, it was very difficult when I was in trouble.

https://www.tokopedia.com/
https://www.bukalapak.com/
https://shopee.co.id/
Searching with the keyword "yuin pk1 150 red film driver" on the above Indonesian website seems to sell it at many stores.
If you can ask a DIY member in Indonesia to purchase for you, this method may be safer.


----------



## willyboyaudio

jogawag said:


> Taobao can only speak Chinese, so even if I used Google Translate, it was very difficult when I was in trouble.
> 
> https://www.tokopedia.com/
> https://www.bukalapak.com/
> ...


DIY member in Indonesia here


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 4, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> Hi Friends, especially @robar and @GREQ -
> I think I've successfully gotten rid of the excessive hump around 2-4kHz on my previous posts. I still use the V7 as the baseline, and note that I include my measurement from two months ago, which is fairly consistent with the new measurement, so that's a good thing. I took three measurements for each earbuds and show the averages only.
> 
> Traceless is from NiceHCK: https://bit.ly/3g2Ruf9
> ...



Mind sharing how you tamed the 2-3khz area?


Also what is your measurement setup? Anyone else that has measured earbuds, I'd be interested to see what you use. I'm considering buying or making one.


----------



## Sunstealer (Jul 5, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Yup. "RedFilm" is the best 14.8mm DIY driver on Ali. Only Chitty's store and DIY Earphone Tribe Store has this driver but 32ohm version.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32776696327.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32251985660.html
> They have a 150ohm  model but with a shell. Maybe these people from the Chitty's store want to sell it separately as a kit, like DOCOMO shell and PK2 driver.
> PK1 and PK2 sound great in DOCOMO shells.


I've cancelled the DIY Tribe order for the time being as I am getting a little overwhelmed with all the combinations! I've earmarked the 32Ohm red film, the 32Ohm Bass, 40Ohm Titanium from NSC and now the GHX N55 64Ohm. I like an overall warm but not dark sound with smooth treble and plenty of mids. Rather than buy a premade 3.5mm pair I like to MMCX mod the shells so I can swap all my cables around and go balanced (which is my preferred mode).

When the AE description says "fever", what does that mean?

Still waiting for my Edifier H180 for the shell fit. I think these have a 15.4mm driver on a 16mm shell? I bought a digital caliper so I can check for myself.

I used taobao once for a DX220 case and it was a real pain. Lots of different steps that were arcane in nature. Never again.


----------



## Slater

Sunstealer said:


> When the AE description says "fever", what does that mean?



Fever means bass, but take it as a grain of salt. It’s usually just marketing fluff.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Sunstealer said:


> I've cancelled the DIY Tribe order for the time being as I am getting a little overwhelmed with all the combinations! I've earmarked the 32Ohm red film, the 32Ohm Bass, 40Ohm Titanium from NSC and now the GHX N55 64Ohm. I like an overall warm but not dark sound with smooth treble and plenty of mids. Rather than buy a premade 3.5mm pair I like to MMCX mod the shells so I can swap all my cables around and go balanced (which is my preferred mode).
> 
> When the AE description says "fever", what does that mean?
> 
> ...


I have also been told fever can mean "audiophile"


----------



## Merlin-PT

Fever: A contagious, enthusiasm or craze about something very popular.
Saturday night fever, movie title from the 70's, disco fever.


----------



## furyossa

Merlin-PT said:


> Fever: A contagious, enthusiasm or craze about something very popular.
> Saturday night fever, movie title from the 70's, disco fever.


Are we talking аbout John Travolta here?


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jul 6, 2020)

It also sounded strange to me reading "fever" in AliExpress, then I remembered Travolta and his fever. 🕺


----------



## assassin10000

Sunstealer said:


> I've cancelled the DIY Tribe order for the time being as I am getting a little overwhelmed with all the combinations! I've earmarked the 32Ohm red film, the 32Ohm Bass, 40Ohm Titanium from NSC and now the GHX N55 64Ohm. I like an overall warm but not dark sound with smooth treble and plenty of mids.



Of the 14.8mm drivers I've heard and in your list I'd go for the N55 64Ω based on your desired sound.

N55 64Ω - mid centric with a warm tilt, some bass roll off, treble is smooth and a step back from the mids. (GHXAMP is the best deal, NSC and Chittys store also has them. I got mine from NSC, GHXAMP didn't have them a few months ago).

32Ω bass driver - bassy, dark. Mids and treble are recessed (from Earphone Tribe Store).


I've got the 40Ω Ti on order, I haven't tried the 32Ω red film.


----------



## robar (Jul 8, 2020)

New 15.4mm non-mmcx metal shell listing on NSC, for very affordable price. Has anyone tried these, any experience? Thanks! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001206473873.html

BTW, srry for the absence, I'm still waiting for stuff to arrive (e8000 glue and 14.8mm large style speaker from CKLewis), and haven't really done anything special lately. (also, it's macro season and that's my main hobby) I'll definitely get back to this thread more as soon as I have something to tinker with  I'm just bit fed up with my box of empty shells that are unusable without glue, which is on its way to me since april lol


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> New 15.4mm non-mmcx metal shell listing on NSC, for very affordable price. Has anyone tried these, any experience? Thanks! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001206473873.html
> 
> BTW, srry for the absence, I'm still waiting for stuff to arrive (e8000 glue and 14.8mm large style speaker from CKLewis), and haven't really done anything special lately. (also, it's macro season and that's my main hobby) I'll definitely get back to this thread more as soon as I have something to tinker with  I'm just bit fed up with my box of empty shells that are unusable without glue, which is on its way to me since april lol


PM me some photos. Yi lens, did you get it?


----------



## captione (Jul 8, 2020)

Has anyone tried these 14.8mm drivers:
"SR" 16 ohm
https://shopee.ph/product/43253829/4935358979?smtt=0.0.9

"Static-style (?)" 16 ohm
Not really sure what static (assuming it's electrostatic) sounds like in a dynamic driver, maybe less to no bass perhaps?
https://shopee.ph/product/43253829/4635417833?smtt=0.0.9

I wanna try lower impedance builds, and this will be my first project that isn't 15.4mm lol. Usually 32 to 64ohms are my sweet spot but I'm down to try anything


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> PM me some photos. Yi lens, did you get it?


I ordered it, but It's still in transit, hopefully it'll arrive in a few weeks but the tracking doesn't tell me anything yet. I send my macro instagram account via PM


----------



## Slater

robar said:


> I ordered it, but It's still in transit, hopefully it'll arrive in a few weeks but the tracking doesn't tell me anything yet. I send my macro instagram account via PM



What’s a Yi lens?


----------



## robar (Jul 8, 2020)

Slater said:


> What’s a Yi lens?


It's the YI 42.5mm F1.8  lens - the cheapest fast prime lens for the Micro 4/3 system. It has AF, supposedly pretty good image quality and a built-in close-up mode.  I bought it for less than 40usd, which is absolutely nuts, the cheapest big brand AF lenses start around 200usd. The wide aperture and AF combined with this focal length is a pretty sweet spot for this sensor size. It's the lens equivalent for chi-fi


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> It's the YI 42.5mm F1.8  lens - the cheapest fast prime lens for the Micro 4/3 system. It has AF, supposedly pretty good image quality and a built-in close-up mode.  I bought it for less than 40usd, which is absolutely nuts, the cheapest big brand AF lenses start around 200usd. The wide aperture and AF combined with this focal length is a pretty sweet spot for this sensor size. It's the lens equivalent for chi-fi



After I saw your photos on Instagram now I understand what you mean by "macro season" hobby. Nice works man.


----------



## robar (Jul 8, 2020)

Thanks a lot, I'm not quite at the level I aspire to, but I'm working on it.



willyboyaudio said:


> Hi robar, did you end up buying this 150 Ohm driver? Please tell me what you think, especially compared to (our) favorite 19-21 32 Ohm driver. Thank you.


Sorry I've just noticed your post. I haven't bought it in the end, but I think the driver of Rosemary should be very similar or even exactly the same.  Rosemary is darker, thicker, smoother, somewhat less detailed and more midcentric compared to 32ohm, but it's hard to compare speakers with different tunings and impedances.  However, @subwoof3r has both and he preferred the 32ohm. I would say that the 150ohm is probably a nice choice for vocal/neutral or low-fatigue smooth sound, the 32ohm is more like a closed headphone with punchy and crispy sound. There are places on aliexpress which sell the 150ohm for cheaper than your link, but I'm not sure if it's worth it when the 64ohm titanium is still cheaper (again subwoof3r preferred the 64ohm, I only can make assumptions based on Rosemary vs my 64ohm build, and I prefer the 64ohm as well. Similarly smooth and thick but better bass extension and detail) But feel free to try it, it still should be a pretty nice speaker, might be a better match with certain amps/dacs.


----------



## assassin10000

captione said:


> Has anyone tried these 14.8mm drivers:
> "SR" 16 ohm
> https://shopee.ph/product/43253829/4935358979?smtt=0.0.9
> 
> ...




Chitty's store did recommend that SR2 driver to me, but I haven't purchased it (yet). As I have other drivers already on the way.


The other ones description seems like it will be bass light. It's description says poor bass for the first 100 hours and it is not strong after. I'd avoid it based on that.


----------



## jayeyeanne

captione said:


> Has anyone tried these 14.8mm drivers:
> "SR" 16 ohm
> https://shopee.ph/product/43253829/4935358979?smtt=0.0.9
> 
> ...


Looks like the SR one is the one I tried:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32252667305.html

To me the treble was quite rolled off, so I had to add foams to the back of the driver + cover off some of the vent slots. Mids are pretty nice after the mods. For the bass, the focus seems to be more on the mid bass. I have made a comparison in an earlier post, hope it helps!



jayeyeanne said:


> Posting this here for anyone who might be interested in starting a DIY earbud project:
> 
> "What I learnt after building 5 earbuds"
> 1. Pre-tin your solder tips!
> ...


----------



## willyboyaudio

robar said:


> Sorry I've just noticed your post. I haven't bought it in the end, but I think the driver of Rosemary should be very similar or even exactly the same.  Rosemary is darker, thicker, smoother, somewhat less detailed and more midcentric compared to 32ohm, but it's hard to compare speakers with different tunings and impedances.  However, @subwoof3r has both and he preferred the 32ohm. I would say that the 150ohm is probably a nice choice for vocal/neutral or low-fatigue smooth sound, the 32ohm is more like a closed headphone with punchy and crispy sound. There are places on aliexpress which sell the 150ohm for cheaper than your link, but I'm not sure if it's worth it when the 64ohm titanium is still cheaper (again subwoof3r preferred the 64ohm, I only can make assumptions based on Rosemary vs my 64ohm build, and I prefer the 64ohm as well. Similarly smooth and thick but better bass extension and detail) But feel free to try it, it still should be a pretty nice speaker, might be a better match with certain amps/dacs.


No worries robar, and thanks. Speaking of photography, it's also an interest of mine, used to earn some money doing events and food photography haha. 
Anyway, thanks for sharing your observations regarding these 150 Ohm drivers. Yeah it looks like the more recent generation of drivers are vastly improved. I was just intrigued by these mid-high impedance drivers, said to offer greater control and overall refined sound.
My local store also has this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32966949381.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.10.2de620989w9PCt

I wonder if anybody has any experience with this one


----------



## assassin10000

willyboyaudio said:


> My local store also has this one:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32966949381.html
> 
> I wonder if anybody has any experience with this one



Maybe @DBaldock9 ? 

I think @HungryPanda had, you can search through his prior posts.


----------



## captione

jayeyeanne said:


> Looks like the SR one is the one I tried:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32252667305.html
> 
> To me the treble was quite rolled off, so I had to add foams to the back of the driver + cover off some of the vent slots. Mids are pretty nice after the mods. For the bass, the focus seems to be more on the mid bass. I have made a comparison in an earlier post, hope it helps!


Thanks for the output, looks like a non fatiguing set of drivers


----------



## DBaldock9

assassin10000 said:


> Maybe @DBaldock9 ?
> 
> I think @HungryPanda had, you can search through his prior posts.



In my experiments, I've used a 600-Ohm Beryllium, and a 400-Ohm Graphene driver - but the only 300-Ohm earbuds I've got, are from Blur and VE.


----------



## furyossa

willyboyaudio said:


> No worries robar, and thanks. Speaking of photography, it's also an interest of mine, used to earn some money doing events and food photography haha.
> Anyway, thanks for sharing your observations regarding these 150 Ohm drivers. Yeah it looks like the more recent generation of drivers are vastly improved. I was just intrigued by these mid-high impedance drivers, said to offer greater control and overall refined sound.
> My local store also has this one:
> 
> ...









This is my most tortured earbuds 300ohm N52. Mids are recessed but still, the sound is very fun (V-shape) and specious with good bass and smooth treble.
I love this set a lot, the bass guitar sounds amazing, drams also. When you increasing volume, vocals open up nicely, and besides that, the overall sound is not offensive.
This is the main advantage of high impedance drivers. On LG7 only 50% volume is quite enough for normal listening but I still recommend a good amp


----------



## furyossa

DBaldock9 said:


> In my experiments, I've used a 600-Ohm Beryllium, and a 400-Ohm Graphene driver - but the only 300-Ohm earbuds I've got, are from Blur and VE.


Blur, your favorites of course. I think that this 300ohm N52 is used for K's 300ohm earbuds. Sounds the same for me. I removed thick "horseshoe" foam because by default vocals are too far.


----------



## willyboyaudio

assassin10000 said:


> Maybe @DBaldock9 ?
> I think @HungryPanda had, you can search through his prior posts.


Thanks mate, I'll do a search.  


furyossa said:


> This is my most tortured earbuds 300ohm N52. Mids are recessed but still, the sound is very fun (V-shape) and specious with good bass and smooth treble.
> I love this set a lot, the bass guitar sounds amazing, drams also. When you increasing volume, vocals open up nicely, and besides that, the overall sound is not offensive.
> This is the main advantage of high impedance drivers. On LG7 only 50% volume is quite enough for normal listening but I still recommend a good amp





furyossa said:


> Blur, your favorites of course. I think that this 300ohm N52 is used for K's 300ohm earbuds. Sounds the same for me. I removed thick "horseshoe" foam because by default vocals are too far.


Thanks a bunch, @furyossa your post certainly sparks some more interest on that driver.  Speaking of amps, would you think NX1s will drive it just fine? 
We'll see when I can tackle that project, considering this afternoon I just scored a Sennheiser HD201 for really cheap. I love finding bargains and do some TLC to bring it back to life.


----------



## willyboyaudio (Jul 10, 2020)

Took a new set of photos for my DIY 'buds:
"Clear Blue" that is tuned for details and clarity, and "Deep Black" that is tuned for smooth vocals and relaxed sound.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 10, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> Speaking of amps, would you think NX1s will drive it just fine?


Yup. It will works fine
If there is a chance to get pure silver cables for them it would probably be the best
solution


----------



## assassin10000

My replacement MMCX connectors finally showed up (short, M4 x .5mm).


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

Hey all been away for a bit, got my Qudelix 5K and have been really enjoying my 600ohm Beryllium build paired with it. I feel like I didn’t give the 600 Beryllium/400 Graphene builds the time they deserved. Now in my wfh situation I am really spending a lot of time with my buds... Anyone have any graphs for these that are willing to put out there? The 400ohm is a little firmer in the bass but similar in the treble area. The 600 ohm is just silky smooth and loads of detail. It’s not boosted in the 3-4khz area and because of that vocals are not in your face. These are my favorite set right now next to my Smabats. I can listen to them all day without issue, low or high volume. In a way they remind me of my modded m1060 set. 

any new drivers I should know about?


----------



## assassin10000

headenvelopedinsound said:


> any new drivers I should know about?



Welcome back lol.

Not sure on the 15.4mm front, as they don't fit me well. Plus shipping has been extremely slow.


There are two new 14.8mm drivers. One I have and the other is in the mail. 

The one I have is a 64Ω with a stainless grill. Slightly mid centric, sub-bass is rolled off and upper mids through treble tapers gently. EQ's well. Currently my 2nd favorite DIY driver (1st being the redfilm PK1 which isn't currently available on AliExpress).

The other is a 40Ω bass unit with a similar stainless grill.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> My replacement MMCX connectors finally showed up (short, M4 x .5mm).


Are you try to modify one set of shells to some of the "famous bell-type" earbuds vent-system?


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 23, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Are you try to modify one set of shells to some of the "famous bell-type" earbuds vent-system?



Nope, those holes were from the manufacturer.

They are also too large, have to micropore tape them then puncture with a needle to tune.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 14, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Nope, those holes were from the manufacturer.
> 
> They are also too large, have to micropore taoe them then puncture with a needle to tune.


I don't like K's Bell (cheap version). The comfort is great, but due to the lack of back vent, there is almost no bass. NiceHCK EB2 seems to have probably the best vent system
but the driver is not at the same level as the competition. Moondrop has too large back holes but I don't see how it looks inside. Probably not look like concepts below 
It's interesting how many solutions can be done here.


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 15, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I don't like K's Bell (cheap version). The comfort is great, but due to the lack of back vent, there is almost no bass. NiceHCK EB2 seems to have probably the best vent system
> but the driver is not at the same level as the competition. Moondrop has too large back holes but I don't see how it looks inside. Probably not look like concepts below
> It's interesting how many solutions can be done here.



The Little Bell (cheaper) and Bell Ti (TOTL) both have the 3 side vents on both sides. The LB has lots of mid bass and lower mids, its a very warm bud.

The LB has foam over all 6 holes. If one was uncovered it may be the right amount of airflow. Just a matter of tuning, like every other bud.

__________________________


After 4 months my set of MMCX ends showed up, so I could finally make a straight down cable.

Yesterday my second set of these slightly oversized PK shells also arrived, so I could finally compare them.

Modding the shell and using short MMCX connectors leaves me with almost the same length as the original. So they can still be used cable down with no issues.




Not looking forward to modding more shells, it's time consuming and tedious lol.


----------



## Sunstealer

> After 4 months my set of MMCX ends showed up, so I could finally make a straight down cable.
> 
> Yesterday my second set of these slightly oversized PK shells also arrived, so I could finally compare them.
> 
> ...



What drivers are you using?

I presume you used a Dremel or similar to cut down the stems?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 16, 2020)

Sunstealer said:


> What drivers are you using?
> 
> I presume you used a Dremel or similar to cut down the stems?



Currently I have the N55 64Ω drivers on them. I've also put 150Ω PK1 redfilm, my original Yuin PK2, the 32Ω bass unit ones on this style shell.

I use a small hobby hacksaw (6" blade maybe 1/4" wide) to remove most of the stem. Then a fine metal file to smooth it and bring it down the last 0.1mm - 0.5mm and finally a small precision file to round the edges.


Info on what I did to use these shells:



assassin10000 said:


> I'll need to file or sand down the opening so there isn't an air gap.





assassin10000 said:


> Took a few minutes with a small fine metal file I have and made them fit the wire mesh drivers properly.





assassin10000 said:


> Continued on with modding these larger PK shell's. I had success fitting 2 sets of drivers to the shells and MMCX modding them.
> 
> I use the 'center' of the normal tuning foams, flip it upside down, use a sharp knife/exacto to score the adhesive and tweezers to remove the area where the vent goes.
> 
> ...


----------



## furyossa (Jul 16, 2020)

This is the last part ie. Part 3 of the project where I analyze three metal shells with different cavity sizes in combination with beryllium coated 130ohm driver.
Previous posts *INTRO*, *PART 1* , *PART 2*.
For this earbuds all parts can be found on Ali : Driver, Shells, Cable
The shells are a bit heavy (not aluminum) which is perfect for "over-ear" wearing.
It lies very nicely in the ear and doesn't allow the cable to move them out.




The only modification on the shell is the widening of the vent holes.
I added tuning foam on the inside to soften the reflection of the sound wave and cover the 2 vents. 3rd vent inside the "neck" of the shell is not covered.
To prevent the mmcs connector from unscrewing, I put on a rubber ring that is used for the same purpose with darts.




The following diagram shows a cross-section through the shell itself




Blue text represents _*PROS, *_red *CONS, *and *BLACK* shared opinion or comments.
1. "Concave arc" shape allows a very comfortable fit, and depth is small.
For permanent connection, you need to use glue because the driver cover diameter is larger than a shell.
In my case, I use "double-side" duct tape
2. The cavity space is small. Although we have side vents, the sound is a little more reminiscent of "closed-back" headphones.
We lose spaciousness and a bit of bass and putt mids in front. This can be good or bad and it depends on the driver.
For me, I like this setup only with a driver which has preceded mids.
3. Due to the size of the shell itself, we do not have many possibilities for internal modification. 
First I try with tuning paper with a small hole for wires to block empty chamber ("neck" where is MMCX) space.
After that, I decide only to use tuning foam.
4. A very good connection between MMCX and shell. The shell has screw threads in the "neck" so glue is not needed.
5. Darts rubber ring secures the connection from unscrewing.
6. The angle between the shell and the neck axis 90 degrees with MMCX socket 

In conclusion, I can say that I managed to achieve the desired result with this project, and that is open-back (PART 1),
semi-open back (PART 2), and closed-back (PART 3) sound signature. To my taste, the score would be next:
1.  "medium" cavity size shell - best comfort, balanced sound
2.  "semi-large" cavity size shell - average comfort, spacious sound
3. "small" cavity size shell - good comfort, intimate sound


----------



## willyboyaudio

Hello Friends, I hope you are well. I have a question: When a 15.4mm driver is available with a steel net cover or a plastic cover, is there a difference in sound? Which one will you choose? Thanks a lot!


----------



## assassin10000

willyboyaudio said:


> Hello Friends, I hope you are well. I have a question: When a 15.4mm driver is available with a steel net cover or a plastic cover, is there a difference in sound? Which one will you choose? Thanks a lot!



If no foam use I'd go with the plastic covers. Otherwise is it wire mesh or drilled holes? Drilled holes if foam use.


----------



## willyboyaudio (Jul 18, 2020)

I typically always use full foams with my earbuds.
I'm talking about the drilled holes one. So if using full foams, the drilled holes one is preferable?
Thanks a lot.


----------



## assassin10000

willyboyaudio said:


> I typically always use full foams with my earbuds.
> I'm talking about the drilled holes one. So if using full foams, the drilled holes one is preferable?
> Thanks a lot.



Yep. More openings.


----------



## captione

Drilled holes? Like the kramer mod?


----------



## willyboyaudio

No mods, just asking whether the type of cover matters, and which one is preferable.
I hope this is also your understanding, @assassin10000 the right one is "drilled holes" right?


----------



## assassin10000

@willyboyaudio exactly. 

I'm not at home or I'd take a pic of the backside to show how much more open they are internally.


----------



## captione

Almost thought it was the kramer mod lol. 
I honestly prefer the "drilled holes" or the metal meshed ones when it comes to foams but it honestly depends on the sound signature.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 19, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> No mods, just asking whether the type of cover matters, and which one is preferable.
> I hope this is also your understanding, @assassin10000 the right one is "drilled holes" right?


For some reason I prefere more plastic cover.
For example HE150ohm has plastic cover and HE150 pro metal mesh cover. This is the same driver for sure and even though all the other parts are different (and better on Pro), original version sounds superior then Pro. I know that 400ohm graphene coated driver has also plastic and metal-mesh cover but at the moment I have a plastic version so I can't compare them.
The plastic cover directly blocks the sound wave, while in the case of metal one, the plastic part  behind the mesh that has four radially placed openings (as a sniper's sight) is the first block and the metal mesh blocks after. So basically we have two filters. Also the diameter of the plastic cover is slightly smaller than metal mesh cover


----------



## captione

I was thinking of whether to put a really dark sounding driver on a metal grill, since there's no obstruction of some sorts, what do you guys think?


----------



## assassin10000

Backside of a 14.8mm covers which are slightly different from 15.4mm ones. In 14.8mm covers both are good. I'm not a fan of the wire mesh ones, although they may be fine sonically.





captione said:


> I was thinking of whether to put a really dark sounding driver on a metal grill, since there's no obstruction of some sorts, what do you guys think?



Worth a try if you have them already.


----------



## robar (Jul 19, 2020)

There are many variations of steel mesh covers both in terms of shape and size. Not every kind is great but I really like the type which the N50 driver has. I would prefer this variation to the regular plastic cover, it has better comfort and stronger connection to the shells (no need of glue, plastic ones rotate around and slightly wobble for me). MX500 shell is more stable in my ears with N50 steel mesh cover than regular plastic ones. Other shells benefit from the thinner cover as well, like dp100 and similar ones because they become too big and bulky with plastic covers. On the other hand of course, if the shells are small or concave then the plastic cover might improve the fit.

I'm not sure what would be the sonic difference between two identical speakers with different covers, maybe the steel mesh rolls off a bit of treble and increases the mids but I only base this on general observations about plastic vs steel mesh speakers. The better fit can also change the sound, depending on your ears you might get a bit boost in bass if the seal improves with the thinner cover. I use donut foam usually with everything, but I think steel mesh covers are especially suitable for donuts. If you eventually buy both variations from the same speaker, let us know what you think


----------



## purplesun

Does anyone have silver-core cables to recommend?
3.5mm TRS straight plug (rhodium-plated if possible).
Litz braid is nice to have, but not important.
Cheap-ish (tens of dollars) would be good.
TIA


----------



## assassin10000

purplesun said:


> Does anyone have silver-core cables to recommend?
> 3.5mm TRS straight plug (rhodium-plated if possible).
> Litz braid is nice to have, but not important.
> Cheap-ish (tens of dollars) would be good.
> TIA



Maybe the TRN one or some of the Nicehck cables?


I'd check these threads:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-299#post-15745128
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/res...mments-and-links.907998/page-20#post-15746004


----------



## purplesun

assassin10000 said:


> Maybe the TRN one or some of the Nicehck cables?
> I'd check these threads:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-299#post-15745128
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/res...mments-and-links.907998/page-20#post-15746004


Thanks. Amazing the kind of prices we pay for cables nowadays.
Wish I could time-teleport a box full of them back to myself in the '90s and save enough to build a time-teleporter!


----------



## furyossa

purplesun said:


> Thanks. Amazing the kind of prices we pay for cables nowadays.
> Wish I could time-teleport a box full of them back to myself in the '90s and save enough to build a time-teleporter!


I wish the same   The question is what quality are these silver cables in general but on the other hand they are good enough for DIY and earbuds, even better then some stock one.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001166709135.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000600301778.html
It is much cheaper to take a separate rhodium plug and change it than to buy cables with already installed ones
QYFUNG store has nice offer of any type of plugs https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000392012197.html
As we all already know Japanese plugs are very high quality but I don't know about these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000833426018.html
Whatever you choose you will certainly not go wrong. For DIY drivers I always recommend silver cables, rhodium plug is just a nice bonus


----------



## Slater

furyossa said:


> The question is what quality are these silver cables in general but on the other hand they are good enough for DIY and earbuds, even better then some stock one.



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-290#post-15693714

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aud...ressions-thread.909718/page-232#post-15461444


----------



## furyossa

Slater said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/low...ck-cable-thread.891911/page-290#post-15693714
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aud...ressions-thread.909718/page-232#post-15461444


Wow man, you are test this cable to the core. Nice job.💪
I own 4 TRN cables (not silver-one) and all work great and after seeing your experiment I can only confirm that TRN is really the budget king for cables


----------



## purplesun

furyossa said:


> It is much cheaper to take a separate rhodium plug and change it than to buy cables with already installed ones
> For DIY drivers I always recommend silver cables, rhodium plug is just a nice bonus


Good idea. Reminded me of some plugs I bought sometime ago (years!).
Dug around & found these; I think I bought them with rhodium-plating specced.


All I need now is some silver wires to make the cables.

BTW, the cable is for an old SHE3800 (again, years!) that I found. It's sounding a bit too warm for my ears. A bit of silver & rhodium goodness should sort them out.


----------



## GREQ

Does anyone have a recommendation for 15mm drivers? (not 15.4mm)

I'm looking for something resembling 'high-end' 'end-game' with excellent deep bass... anything in the direction of Kube or Sabia V6 but with far superior detail retrieval is what I'm looking for.
Does that even exist?


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 21, 2020)

GREQ said:


> Does anyone have a recommendation for 15mm drivers? (not 15.4mm)
> 
> I'm looking for something resembling 'high-end' 'end-game' with excellent deep bass... anything in the direction of Kube or Sabia V6 but with far superior detail retrieval is what I'm looking for.
> Does that even exist?



I can't think of any 15.0mm drivers.

Maybe use 14.8mm instead?

The best I've used are the (currently sold out on AE) diy pk1 150Ω redfilm. If used in a housing with slightly larger than average volume. Original 2-vent or apple earbud shaped housings will not let these sound their best.

Followed by the 64Ω N55 I'm currently using, which is a little rolled off in comparison on both ends (still good overall).


----------



## jogawag (Jul 21, 2020)

GREQ said:


> Does anyone have a recommendation for 15mm drivers? (not 15.4mm)
> 
> I'm looking for something resembling 'high-end' 'end-game' with excellent deep bass... anything in the direction of Kube or Sabia V6 but with far superior detail retrieval is what I'm looking for.
> Does that even exist?



If 14.8mm is OK, I think that the docomo driver, which is said to be the driver of Shozy BK, shows the best performance in the docomo shell (a slightly larger PK shell).
You can buy docomo earbuds by "PM" on the following page.
The docomo driver should be retrieved from there. (It's about $28 now, so maybe it's a bit expensive?)

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=4771866


----------



## Slater

furyossa said:


> On Ali you can find two version 15.4mm Beryllium coated drivers, 130ohm and 600ohm. It is cheaper to buy theses drivers and other parts separately and make your own earbuds, but first try with cheaper models as some have already recommended. You just have a chance to test theses Beryllium speakers before you decide to buy assembled models which in my opinion are expensive, at least double



FYI, I might have found a 3rd version of the 15.4mm beryllium driver.

It’s a 500ohm driver, and has slightly different sensitivity specs than the 600ohm driver. The driver surround is red instead of blue:



I messaged the seller to see if it was a mistake, and they verified that it is indeed 500ohm.


----------



## Slater (Jul 22, 2020)

Can anyone help me identify this Sony earphone?

I got a pair with a bad cable for free, and if they are decent I can recable them. But if they’re low end junk, I’ll just reuse the shell.

There is no model identification, because the cable was cut off. I know the model is usually listed on the y splitter. So that’s not really an option.

Any help is appreciated


----------



## captione

@Slater I think that's a Sony E808. Not sure though


----------



## Slater (Jul 22, 2020)

captione said:


> @Slater I think that's a Sony E808. Not sure though



Comparing it to the E808, it’s different.

The little triangle vent in the E808 has a bar splitting the triangle in half. Mine doesn’t have that bar.

Also, the vent on the E808 next to the cable is offset to the side slightly. Mine is perfectly centered.

Finally, the E808 shell has a curved “swirl” indented into shell by the triangular vent. Mine doesn’t have that.

Maybe mine are vintage fake Sonys?

MDR-E808:


----------



## jogawag

Slater said:


> Can anyone help me identify this Sony earphone?
> 
> I got a pair with a bad cable for free, and if they are decent I can recable them. But if they’re low end junk, I’ll just reuse the shell.
> 
> ...



The Sony earbuds model number is printed on the branch of the cable.
It's printed on my few Sony earbuds.


----------



## purplesun (Jul 23, 2020)

Slater said:


> Comparing it to the E808, it’s different.
> The little triangle vent in the E808 has a bar splitting the triangle in half. Mine doesn’t have that bar.
> Also, the vent on the E808 next to the cable is offset to the side slightly. Mine is perfectly centered.
> Finally, the E808 shell has a curved “swirl” indented into shell by the triangular vent. Mine doesn’t have that.
> Maybe mine are vintage fake -----?


I don't know if a genuine E808 does exist, but it looks like a variant of E808+ that I use.
- The rear shell looks similar to E808+ ones.
- The front cover is different. E808+ holes placement are arranged in five-of-diamond fashion.
- The number of metal vent holes on the driver are also different. E808+ had 14 holes, IIRC.

EDIT: I can't recommend E808+ even though I like them. There were so many variants out there even from few years ago (ie: they sounded like crap). I bought a bagful of them from different sellers just to weed out the bad ones. I think the good-to-bad ratio was something like 30:70. Never again!
EDIT2:


----------



## Slater

jogawag said:


> The Sony earbuds model number is printed on the branch of the cable.
> It's printed on my few Sony earbuds.



I can’t read the model from the cable split, because the cable was cut off (I only have the shells with about 1/4” of cable).

So that’s not really an option.


----------



## Slater

purplesun said:


> I don't know if a genuine E808 does exist, but it looks like a variant of E808+ that I use.
> - The rear shell looks similar to E808+ ones.
> - The front cover is different. E808+ holes placement are arranged in five-of-diamond fashion.
> - The number of metal vent holes on the driver are also different. E808+ had 14 holes, IIRC.
> ...



Ah, ok. Thanks for the heads up. I’ll just reuse the shells then, and put some better drivers in


----------



## captione (Jul 23, 2020)

Slater said:


> Comparing it to the E808, it’s different.
> 
> The little triangle vent in the E808 has a bar splitting the triangle in half. Mine doesn’t have that bar.
> 
> ...


It might be a fake just by looking at your comparison, but I don't know for sure since those E808s exists in different flavors.*

Looks like the mystery has been solved! I really need to refresh my browser now and then. 😆


----------



## furyossa (Jul 23, 2020)

Slater said:


> FYI, I might have found a 3rd version of the 15.4mm beryllium driver.
> 
> It’s a 500ohm driver, and has slightly different sensitivity specs than the 600ohm driver. The driver surround is red instead of blue:
> 
> ...


That is 500ohm driver for sure but not beryllium-coated but graphene-coated. It has very similar Freq.Graph and 600ohm driver
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32985345691.html


----------



## robar (Jul 23, 2020)

I found these old earbuds in a box I put away few years ago. (long before I started earbud diy, but somehow I knew they could be interesting in the future haha) Have you tried these shells, any experience with compatibility, tuning etc? Maybe it's possible to build something decent with better speakers, could be a quick fun project. I just wanted to ask you before I disassemble them 
The one on the left was the first earbud I bought from aliexpress a few years ago, the shell looks like standard 15.4 from the outside. The other two were accessories for mobile phones I guess. The middle Sony looks like 14.8mm but I have to disassemble it to confirm. The third earbud has a curious shape, I like the mx500-style double vent on the stem. I think I've seen something similar on aliexpress but I don't know if it's compatible with any circular driver cover.


----------



## Slater

furyossa said:


> That is 500ohm driver for sure but not beryllium-coated but graphene-coated. It has very similar FQ and 600ohm driver
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32985345691.html



Ah, I must have been half asleep. I could have sworn it said beryllium.

Thanks for the correction


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> I found these old earbuds in a box I put away few years ago. (long before I started earbud diy, but somehow I knew they could be interesting in the future haha) Have you tried these shells, any experience with compatibility, tuning etc? Maybe it's possible to build something decent with better speakers, could be a quick fun project. I just wanted to ask you before I disassemble them
> The one on the left was the first earbud I bought from aliexpress a few years ago, the shell looks like standard 15.4 from the outside. The other two were accessories for mobile phones I guess. The middle Sony looks like 14.8mm but I have to disassemble it to confirm. The third earbud has a curious shape, I like the mx500-style double vent on the stem. I think I've seen something similar on aliexpress but I don't know if it's compatible with any circular driver cover.


Some time ago, someone came up with the concept of "flat" cables which allegedly solved the problem of entanglement ie. "tangle-free" solution. 
For me personally the main problem is the "springy" effect which is common with these cables and microphonics.
I had several such earbuds that I got with the phones or bought for testing. 
The biggest complaint of all of them is very, very cheap plastic used for shells and not common driver size. 
Even cover shape is so unique for most of these models. They did this to provide better comfort without the use of pads. Of course, this causes other problems like slipping, lack of bass, harsh treble, in one-word DISCOMFORT.

Your 1st model seams to use standard 15.4mm mesh-cover driver but the question is whether the shell holds the cover (has "lips") or is it just glued to shell body.
2nd model has is a familiar cover concept. Rubber ring holds a mesh grid in front of the driver. I had a similar model, the size below 14.8mm (13.5-13.8mm). 
I couldn't use them for anything, even the cables they use have such thin wires, even thinner then MMCX short wires.
3rd model has a bump on the cover. I had trouble taking off this cover because of glue. The size is around 15mm or so, I can't remember.
Your model has an interesting "advanced" vent system from the back.


----------



## robar (Jul 23, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Some time ago, someone came up with the concept of "flat" cables which allegedly solved the problem of entanglement ie. "tangle-free" solution.
> For me personally the main problem is the "springy" effect which is common with these cables and microphonics.
> I had several such earbuds that I got with the phones or bought for testing.
> The biggest complaint of all of them is very, very cheap plastic used for shells and not common driver size.
> ...


I had a few minutes to quickly test the first two out. The first one (checked the name: BYZ S600, bought it for 3.5usd in 2016) is standard 15.4mm and there wasn't any glue. MX500 style plastic covers are somewhat loose but DP100 and steel mesh covers snap on perfectly. The flat cable is hideous, really stiff and just annoying.  I left one half in stock condition for future comparison, but I replaced the cable on the other side and put a vido driver in place with dp100 cover.  I think this will be a nice diy subject, plenty of opportunity for improvement, and the shape has pretty good fit in my ears. I just need to find a good tuning setup  and a decent speaker with suitable cover, I hope it'll work. (the stock speaker doesn't seem very bad, maybe I can make it work) Do you think a small vent on the top would make sense? I'll test the speakers and tunings further in the close future, and post photos from the inside etc.  The plastic is not top quality but quite okay, I had much much worse 

The second one (Sony) has very nice plastic quality and the venting system looks smart. The speaker is standard 14.8mm. The edge of the steel mesh is not hard plastic but deteriorating rubbery stuff instead so I had to do something about it. I could remove the speaker from it and put it into regular PK cover from a dead SR2 driver. It snaps on perfectly. I didn't have time to test further, but overall this shell looks like a nice yuin PK alternative.

I didn't have time to open up the third one, it's glued down just like you said. I'm afraid it's not usable for anything but it would be nice to put a 15.4mm speaker on it.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> I had a few minutes to quickly test the first two out. The first one (checked the name: BYZ S600, bought it for 3.5usd in 2016) is standard 15.4mm and there wasn't any glue. MX500 style plastic covers are somewhat loose but DP100 and steel mesh covers snap on perfectly. The flat cable is hideous, really stiff and just annoying.  I left one half in stock condition for future comparison, but I replaced the cable on the other side and put a vido driver in place with dp100 cover.  I think this will be a nice diy subject, plenty of opportunity for improvement, and the shape has pretty good fit in my ears. I just need to find a good tuning setup  and a decent speaker with suitable cover, I hope it'll work. (the stock speaker doesn't seem very bad, maybe I can make it work) Do you think a small vent on the top would make sense? I'll test the speakers and tunings further in the close future, and post photos from the inside etc.  The plastic is not top quality but quite okay, I had much much worse
> 
> The second one (Sony) has very nice plastic quality and the venting system looks smart. The speaker is standard 14.8mm. The edge of the steel mesh is not hard plastic but deteriorating rubbery stuff instead so I had to do something about it. I could remove the speaker from it and put it into regular PK cover from a dead SR2 driver. It snaps on perfectly. I didn't have time to test further, but overall this shell looks like a nice yuin PK alternative.
> 
> I didn't have time to open up the third one, it's glued down just like you said. I'm afraid it's not usable for anything but it would be nice to put a 15.4mm speaker on it.


#1 You already have 4 holes on top. Hmmm... maybe you can try to make a hole that will connect 2nd and 3rd holes together like MX500 side vents. 
Also small hole at the back above "B" 
#2 For PK-like shell you can try to mimic similar holes position but instead 2 stripe vents you can punch two holes side by side. 
#3 The cover is not good, but as I said, do not underestimate  "advanced" vent system on the shell


----------



## robar (Jul 24, 2020)

furyossa said:


> #1 You already have 4 holes on top. Hmmm... maybe you can try to make a hole that will connect 2nd and 3rd holes together like MX500 side vents.
> Also small hole at the back above "B"
> #2 For PK-like shell you can try to mimic similar holes position but instead 2 stripe vents you can punch two holes side by side.
> #3 The cover is not good, but as I said, do not underestimate  "advanced" vent system on the shell


I tinkered with this stuff way more than I wanted 
First shell (BYZ): one half has a lot of sticky substance stuck into the stem after removing the cable. I couldn't entirely clean it up yet, maybe I need to floss it or something lol. At the moment I can't push through a cable because of it.  I tested the other half, in stock form it's usable, not spectacular but clean sound without any dips or spikes, suitable for a decent build with a good speaker. The stock driver is quite unusual, the bass extension is incredible but the upper range is completely missing.

Sony shell is good, I didn't really make any progress apart from moving both speakers to plastic PK-style. The sound character is close to yuin pk shells, overall it seems a totally viable alternative. It has a vent on top like yuin shell and also a bass port which probably directs the air through the stem. I don't have other traditional 14.8mm speakers so I couldn't test any upgrade.


left: BYZ speaker, right: SE speaker

I also opened up the third shell ("advanced vent" in your words), I had to drill through the speaker cover and tear it apart, fortunately the shell itself didn't get damaged. For my surprise, it's compatible with B40 speakers, so it could be considered as "large-style 14.8mm". The overall layout and sound character is also similar to B40-type yuin shell, so one opening on top, and open bass port through second vent on the stem. The opening on top is smaller so it's possible to cover it with part of simple horseshoe foam. The sound is similar, bass is a bit more and maybe the sound is bit more spacious but I haven't bothered with tuning much yet. Not far from original signature, just exaggerated, definitely need tightening on lower and and taming in the upper mids. I'll try to improve on it, so far I just put in the B40 as-is and called it a day. Plastic quality is extremely cheap and the edges are sharp. I think I got this with a guitar tuner more than 10 years ago


----------



## robar (Jul 24, 2020)

BTW, new 14.8mm DIY set in NSC store: 120ohm Beryllium driver with large PK shell, looks sweet. Is this a new model or have you tried this already from other store? This is the first time I've personally seen this.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001271576204.html

And this bud looks very similar to the third earbud I just disassembled. Not sure if it comes apart like mine but if yes than it's pretty possible that it also could snap on large pk-style (B40) covers. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000892077990.html


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> I tinkered with this stuff way more than I wanted
> First shell (BYZ): one half has a lot of sticky substance stuck into the stem after removing the cable. I couldn't entirely clean it up yet, maybe I need to floss it or something lol. At the moment I can't push through a cable because of it.  I tested the other half, in stock form it's usable, not spectacular but clean sound without any dips or spikes, suitable for a decent build with a good speaker. The stock driver is quite unusual, the bass extension is incredible but the upper range is completely missing.
> 
> Sony shell is good, I didn't really make any progress apart from moving both speakers to plastic PK-style. The sound character is close to yuin pk shells, overall it seems a totally viable alternative. It has a vent on top like yuin shell and also a bass port which probably directs the air through the stem. I don't have other traditional 14.8mm speakers so I couldn't test any upgrade.
> ...


Yup. The sticky substance  is the main ingredient here. Probably they use it for tuning. 
I also lost my temper with these old models immediately after disassembly. After all, cheap plastic produce more resonance


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> BTW, new 14.8mm DIY set in NSC store: 120ohm Beryllium driver with large PK shell, looks sweet. Is this a new model or have you tried this already from other store? This is the first time I've personally seen this.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001271576204.html
> 
> And this bud looks very similar to the third earbud I just disassembled. Not sure if it comes apart like mine but if yes than it's pretty possible that it also could snap on large pk-style (B40) covers. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000892077990.html


Nice find man, that is new Bery for sure. F-Graph looks very promising, especially treble. Reminiscent of a hybrid in between 10mm and 15.4 driver. It has bass tuning vent from behind covered with fine white textile mesh. Very cool. 




Where did it go on this image  Was it erased or something?   Fake or not?




My MSUR C210 has exactly the same vent on beryllium 8mm. Belove 9.2mm titanium driver


----------



## robar (Jul 24, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Nice find man, that is new Bery for sure. F-Graph looks very promising, especially treble. Reminiscent of a hybrid in between 10mm and 15.4 driver. It has bass tuning vent from behind covered with fine white textile mesh. Very cool.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting! I would guess that the picture with the shells is the actual one, where the mesh is present. But it might be smart to ask the seller for photos of the exact model 

About the sticky stuff - I believe it was extra glue to keep the cable in place. Weird because it was only present in only one shell. Somewhat similarly to my B40 buds, where all the right sides had a blob of extra glue (something like blutac) on the speaker, which also leaked into the vent/membrane, ruining its sound.. The lefts were clean and working well, so I had to disassemble two buds to create one working pair from the lefts....


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Interesting! I would guess that the picture with the shells is the actual one, where the mesh is present. But it might be smart to ask the seller for photos of the exact model
> 
> About the sticky stuff - I believe it was extra glue to keep the cable in place. Weird because it was only present in only one shell. Somewhat similarly to my B40 buds, where all the right sides had a blob of extra glue (something like blutac) on the speaker, which also leaked into the vent/membrane, ruining its sound.. The lefts were clean and working well, so I had to disassemble two buds to create one working pair from the lefts....


I will love to test this new Bery, but (((((((Shipping: US $106.56 )))))))     
Now the question is: Can this driver beat the long-time DIY champion PK1 "red-Film"?


----------



## assassin10000

My 14.8mm 40Ω Titanium haven't even gotten here yet and you tempt me with the new 14.8mm 120Ω beryllium.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> My 14.8mm 40Ω Titanium haven't even gotten here yet and you tempt me with the new 14.8mm 120Ω beryllium.


Same here. He is very rude 
What do you think about new Smabat M2 Pro? I guess you saw this link. 
Too much news for one day. It's not good


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> I will love to test this new Bery, but (((((((Shipping: US $106.56 )))))))
> Now the question is: Can this driver beat the long-time DIY champion PK1 "red-Film"?


Really sad :/ Is this high shipping cost a non-EU thing? For me in Hungary (neighbours  ) the shipping cost is 0.89usd via the default Singapore Post option.. 
But I only received registered packages in the last few months, my glue and two drivers are still in transit after 2-3 months, and no news about them..


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 24, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Same here. He is very rude
> What do you think about new Smabat M2 Pro? I guess you saw this link.
> Too much news for one day. It's not good



It's 15.4mm so while neat, it's easier for me to skip as I prefer smaller 14.8mm drivers.

It also (I think) comes with the current ST-10S silver/black driver that has a colder tonality, than my original ST-10 which is more neutral.




robar said:


> Really sad :/ Is this high shipping cost a non-EU thing? For me in Hungary (neighbours  ) the shipping cost is 0.89usd via the default Singapore Post option..
> But I only received registered packages in the last few months, my glue and two drivers are still in transit after 2-3 months, and no news about them..



I had a pair of connectors take 4+ months. So who knows lol.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 24, 2020)

robar said:


> Really sad :/ Is this high shipping cost a non-EU thing? For me in Hungary (neighbours  ) the shipping cost is 0.89usd via the default Singapore Post option..
> But I only received registered packages in the last few months, my glue and two drivers are still in transit after 2-3 months, and no news about them..


I don't know what is the problem. Probably politics, who knows.
I order 2 weeks ago form PENON directly and they didn't charge shipping. I assume that they are from Hong Kong. I don't know why the shipment goes through the Netherland.
It's very strange.


----------



## captione

I have an incoming transparent shells and a pair of pk shells (the dual vented one) , some cables, a 15.4mm 64ohms titanium plated driver, a 15.4mm 32ohms "balanced" driver (the big solder with the black epoxy) and a 14.8mm 16ohm SR2 driver. I'm imagining how cool titanium membrane would look on a transparent grill 🤤

Can't wait to post some of impressions and pics here once i finish building them all.


----------



## assassin10000

captione said:


> I have an incoming transparent shells and a pair of pk shells (the dual vented one) , some cables, a 15.4mm 64ohms titanium plated driver, a 15.4mm 32ohms "balanced" driver (the big solder with the black epoxy) and a 14.8mm 16ohm SR2 driver. I'm imagining how cool titanium membrane would look on a transparent grill 🤤
> 
> Can't wait to post some of impressions and pics here once i finish building them all.



Sweet. Did you get the 'Sunrise SR2' from Chitty's store on AE? Interested to see your thoughts compared to mine if so.



FYI I picked up a tube of e6000 glue from the hardware store to see how it compares to the e8000. The e6000 seems to have a stronger bond and is more permanent. Where as the e8000 is like a semi-permanent that is relatively easy to remove.


----------



## captione (Jul 25, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Sweet. Did you get the 'Sunrise SR2' from Chitty's store on AE? Interested to see your thoughts compared to mine if so.


I only use shopee to buy my stuff but it wasn't the Sunrise, it was this:
AE Link


Spoiler: Picture








Apart from the blue markings for the right indicator, the Sunrise and this "Yuin SR" driver is basically or almost the same at the back. Correct me if I'm wrong though. 

This is gonna be my first time making 14.8mm earbuds so I'm really excited! I'll definitely post impressions.


----------



## purplesun

Something interesting for those trying to figure out the resonant frequency of bass reflex ports in their earbud shells. I think I may have used this particular web calculator when I DIYed some speaker cabinets ages ago. This one's pretty easy to understand & use. Obviously, you will have to get creative going about measuring the dimensions of the respective earbuds. It should be useful information when pairing with frequency responses of various drivers. Have fun!

http://www.mobileinformationlabs.com/HowTo-1Woofer-Box-CAL Port lenth 1.htm


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Same here. He is very rude
> What do you think about new Smabat M2 Pro? I guess you saw this link.
> Too much news for one day. It's not good


I just saw the m2 pro, and you can purchase everything separately.... 
It looks very interesting to say the least, wonder if I could remove the metal ring and slide in a 400ohm driver.. 
And I told my wife I wasn't going to buy anymore......


----------



## robar (Jul 30, 2020)

I found a little aliexpress trick yesterday if you're interested. In the mobile app, there is a menu called something like "coupon pals" under the coupons tab. It directs you to a silly minigame where you need to tap a button as fast as you can for 10 seconds. If you get to the full bar, you get (need to press the redeem button) a universal aliexpress coupon which is applicable for any order over a certain amount. I did it twice and got two 1.5usd off over 11usd coupons. I found this because I was thinking about buying the little brother of the ES9018K2M "fever" DAC which I'm still really impressed with. I needed a backup / secondary dac which is cheap and portable, works with OTG and can drive stuff properly at least up to 100-150ohm.  So I was quite happy to find this trick, I could order the stick for about 12usd with aliexpress standard shipping included. I'll post impressions when I get it  link: ES9023 dac


By the way, do you know an aliexpress listing where I could buy mx760 shells for cheap? The original style, which has two holes through the stem. I found some listings few months ago where they sold a pair for about 1-2 usd, but they disappeared since then. I really like my modded blue mx760 build from the NSC DIY kit (which also disappeared from alli), I'm still impressed every time I listen to it. Would be nice to build more stuff with these shells now that I figured out how to make them sing.


Third topic: sometimes a topic comes up about what music do we test with, or use as a benchmark for earbud evaluation. I just found a gem for vocals a few days ago. It's a channel called stories from the creators of Scary Pockets and Poomplamoose, and in my opinion this is their best project to this day. It's about minimalist, acoustic covers of popular songs, focusing on amazing guest singers. The music and the recording quality is top notch. The maxed out Spotify has waay better sound quality than the youtube version. Every song is great, but here is some starting suggestions from me:
Dreams - Lily Kershaw
Ain't no sunshine - Sarah Dugas
Your Song - Kenton Chen
Black Hole Sun - Jennah Bell
How deep is your love - Abby Celso
Wait for the moment - Hunter Elizabeth
A natural woman - Rozzi

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-yUK_2HT9rxQSsweAjjNiA/videos?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid


Also, here is my spotify playlist for testing, which got way out of hand with hundreds of songs  (the embedded player only shows the first 100, but there's much more lol)


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 30, 2020)

robar said:


> I found a little aliexpress trick yesterday if you're interested. In the mobile app, there is a menu called something like "coupon pals" under the coupons tab. It directs you to a silly minigame where you need to tap a button as fast as you can for 10 seconds. If you get to the full bar, you get (need to press the redeem button) a universal aliexpress coupon which is applicable for any order over a certain amount. I did it twice and got two 1.5usd off over 11usd coupons.



You must have ridiculously fast fingers lol. I can get over the 1/2 way mark and partway to the 3/4 mark only.


I got a new soldering iron from AE. One of those cheapish digital adjustable temp ones. We'll see how it works once I get around to doing something with it. Hoping the much smaller tips than my 20 year old weller make things way easier.


----------



## robar (Jul 30, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> You must have ridiculously fast fingers lol. I can get over the 1/2 way mark and partway to the 3/4 mark only.
> 
> 
> I got a new soldering iron from AE. One of those cheapish digital adjustable temp ones. We'll see how it works once I get around to doing something with it. Hoping the much smaller tips than my 20 year old weller make things way easier.


Haha lol maybe the combination of being a millennial and a few years of playing the guitar in teens is the key for winning  I used the index finger though and I moved with the whole lower arm, so technically it's not really about finger speed haha.

Keep us updated on the soldering iron, I'm interested 


By the way how do you tune pk-style shells? I'm really struggling, no matter what I put on the vents, I just cant seem to get rid of the typical characteristic: too warm, soft bass and overemphasized upper mids/lower treble. I'm trying to do something with the B40 speakers with different pk-like shells and the sony ericcson bud I wrote a out earlier.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> I found a little aliexpress trick yesterday if you're interested. In the mobile app, there is a menu called something like "coupon pals" under the coupons tab. It directs you to a silly minigame where you need to tap a button as fast as you can for 10 seconds. If you get to the full bar, you get (need to press the redeem button) a universal aliexpress coupon which is applicable for any order over a certain amount. I did it twice and got two 1.5usd off over 11usd coupons. I found this because I was thinking about buying the little brother of the ES9018K2M "fever" DAC which I'm still really impressed with. I needed a backup / secondary dac which is cheap and portable, works with OTG and can drive stuff properly at least up to 100-150ohm.  So I was quite happy to find this trick, I could order the stick for about 12usd with aliexpress standard shipping included. I'll post impressions when I get it  link: ES9023 dac
> 
> 
> By the way, do you know an aliexpress listing where I could buy mx760 shells for cheap? The original style, which has two holes through the stem. I found some listings few months ago where they sold a pair for about 1-2 usd, but they disappeared since then. I really like my modded blue mx760 build from the NSC DIY kit (which also disappeared from alli), I'm still impressed every time I listen to it. Would be nice to build more stuff with these shells now that I figured out how to make them sing.
> ...



Only found these 3 links for MX760:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000851137552.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32811264808.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32757755374.html
BTW...nice music choice, I will test it tomorrow


----------



## robar (Jul 30, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Only found these 3 links for MX760:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000851137552.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32811264808.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32757755374.html
> BTW...nice music choice, I will test it tomorrow


Thanks, I've seen these but they're not what I'm after. The trick to those earlier listing was that mx760 wasnt mentioned anywhere in the title or description lol. And usually random stores sold them which were not specialized in audio.

I have the first one, it's not mx760, that vent layout of the shell is more similar to DP100. The main problem with those is that the diameter is smaller than neccessary and I cant snap on any common 15.4mm speaker on them. (And my glue hasnt arrived since april) I'm working on a build with vido drivers transplanted into extra tight non-standard covers but I got stuck because one of the speakers became bad sounding after the cover swap.

Hope you find my list useful


----------



## assassin10000 (Jul 30, 2020)

robar said:


> By the way how do you tune pk-style shells? I'm really struggling, no matter what I put on the vents, I just cant seem to get rid of the typical characteristic: too warm, soft bass and overemphasized upper mids/lower treble. I'm trying to do something with the B40 speakers with different pk-like shells and the sony ericcson bud I wrote a out earlier.



It may be the drivers you are using.

With the pk1 150Ω redfilm drivers and the metal 'bell' shaped shells I used micropore tape and a needle to tune the bass response. And I added some cotton from a cotton ball to dampen resonance.


With the N55 64Ω and MMCX PK shells that I cut the stem off of, I only put that center mx500 foam over the vent.

If I needed less bass I would probably seal the port behind the MMCX/cable opening and resize it using a drill bit.


----------



## robar

assassin10000 said:


> It may be the drivers you are using.
> 
> With the pk1 150Ω redfilm drivers and the metal 'bell' shaped shells I used micropore tape and a needle to tune the bass response. And I added some cotton from a cotton ball to dampen resonance.
> 
> With the N55 64Ω and MMCX PK shells that I cut the stem off of, I only put that center mx500 foam over the vents.


Your builds seem to have lot less venting due to mmcx etc. Maybe I need to close the airflow from the cable tunnel then. These kind of pk shells have one or two big vents on top plus open bass port plus open cable hole, maybe its too much. I only have medical tape and standard tuning horseshoe foams, couldnt really find any micropore tape locally :/ If I have time, I think I'll also try modding the bell shaped metal shell of the TOPK bud which I found to be compatible with 14.8mm. I was thinking about buying a set of PK2 speakers (about 10usd for 5 pairs) but these 14.8mm shells seemed quite risky so far for tuning.


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> Your builds seem to have lot less venting due to mmcx etc. Maybe I need to close the airflow from the cable tunnel then. These kind of pk shells have one or two big vents on top plus open bass port plus open cable hole, maybe its too much. I only have medical tape and standard tuning horseshoe foams, couldnt really find any micropore tape locally :/ If I have time, I think I'll also try modding the bell shaped metal shell of the TOPK bud which I found to be compatible with 14.8mm. I was thinking about buying a set of PK2 speakers (about 10usd for 5 pairs) but these 14.8mm shells seemed quite risky so far for tuning.



Breathable 3M medical 'paper' tape is micropore tape.

You could use a bit of e8000 or e6000 glue to seal the ports. Even silicone or hot glue would work for semi-permanent solutions.

___________________

Fyi on e6000 vs e8000 glue.

I took a bit of e6000 & e8000 glue and let it cure to see how strong they are. The e6000 is much stronger and was harder to tear apart, the e8000 was softer and easier to tear. Both dry or cure flexible and are semi-permanent but the e8000 is softer and is easier to remove because of it.


----------



## Slater (Jul 30, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> You must have ridiculously fast fingers lol. I can get over the 1/2 way mark and partway to the 3/4 mark only.
> 
> 
> I got a new soldering iron from AE. One of those cheapish digital adjustable temp ones. We'll see how it works once I get around to doing something with it. Hoping the much smaller tips than my 20 year old weller make things way easier.



I bought that exact same one. It worked great 3 times and then died. The seller sent me a replacement, which was DOA. I finally got fed up and bought a Hakko digital soldering station and never looked back.

I sincerely hope that you have much better luck with that soldering iron than I did.

Maybe one of these days I’ll take the broken soldering irons apart, figure out what’s wrong with it, and use my Hakko soldering iron to fix them. That is a mind blowing thought haha


----------



## assassin10000

Slater said:


> I bought that exact same one. It worked great 3 times and then died. The seller sent me a replacement, which was DOA. I finally got fed up and bought a Hakko digital soldering station and never looked back.
> 
> I sincerely hope that you have much better luck with that soldering iron than I did.
> 
> Maybe one of these days I’ll take the broken soldering irons apart, figure out what’s wrong with it, and use my Hakko soldering iron to fix them. That is a mind blowing thought haha



Lol. Well thanks. I hope so too. Already turned it on and off like 10 times so already outlasted your record.

Figured out how to change temp over to F as well, hold both buttons down while plugging in. It also has another option or two I'm trying to figure out.


----------



## Slater

assassin10000 said:


> Lol. Well thanks. I hope so too. Already turned it on and off like 10 times so already outlasted your record.
> 
> Figured out how to change temp over to F as well, hold both buttons down while plugging in. It also has another option or two I'm trying to figure out.



Be very very careful with the tips. The ceramic element down inside is ridiculously fragile. In fact, I don’t recommend even unscrewing the cap or trying to change the tip. Just leave the tip that came with it on.


----------



## robar (Jul 31, 2020)

Has anyone tried these 300ohm N52 drivers? Quite cheap for a high impedance speaker, only 10usd but looks nice. Not sure if it's a newer or older model, I haven't really kept track of high impedance drivers. Looks similar to the "blue blob" 150ohm driver from the outside. It's possible that you already discussed it, I just couldn't find anything related in a quick search. (with the terrible search function of headfi haha)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001103895371.html

And here is a new 15.4mm steel mesh 32ohm titanium speaker which I haven't seen before. Extremely cheap for 3usd.  Looks unusual, any experience or opinions? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001296003822.html


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Has anyone tried these 300ohm N52 drivers? Quite cheap for a high impedance speaker, only 10usd but looks nice. Not sure if it's a newer or older model, I haven't really kept track of high impedance drivers. Looks similar to the "blue blob" 150ohm driver from the outside. It's possible that you already discussed it, I just couldn't find anything related in a quick search. (with the terrible search function of headfi haha)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001103895371.html
> 
> And here is a new 15.4mm steel mesh 32ohm titanium speaker which I haven't seen before. Extremely cheap for 3usd.  Looks unusual, any experience or opinions? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001296003822.html


Short info for 300ohm N52
15.4mm steel mesh 32ohm titanium is a sensitive driver. 116±3dB for low resistance drivers (32ohm) ... hmmm... probably will skip this,
The problem is at higher volume level sound can be harsh and distorted.
Bery 600ohm has sensitivity around 100db, Bery 130ohm around 107db, graphene 400ohm around 102db. This is a good ratio for my taste.
I just found about this model. It has 96db / 400ohm. This is hard to drive, Very nice specs.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32879372064.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32862696536.html


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> Short info for 300ohm N52
> 15.4mm steel mesh 32ohm titanium is a sensitive driver. 116±3dB for low resistance drivers (32ohm) ... hmmm... probably will skip this,
> The problem is at higher volume level sound can be harsh and distorted.
> Bery 600ohm has sensitivity around 100db, Bery 130ohm around 107db, graphene 400ohm around 102db. This is a good ratio for my taste.
> ...


Thanks, I'll probably skip the 32ohm and wishlist the 300. If I decide to go higher impedance in the future, this will be a nice starting point then.


----------



## assassin10000

Wish those 14.8mm 40Ω bass drivers would get here already. Itching to try them or at least something new.


In other news, I found the instruction / manual for that 908s soldering iron after browsing a bunch of sale listings on AE.



Spoiler: 908S soldering iron instructions


----------



## willyboyaudio

robar said:


> I found a little aliexpress trick yesterday if you're interested. In the mobile app, there is a menu called something like "coupon pals" under the coupons tab. It directs you to a silly minigame where you need to tap a button as fast as you can for 10 seconds. If you get to the full bar, you get (need to press the redeem button) a universal aliexpress coupon which is applicable for any order over a certain amount. I did it twice and got two 1.5usd off over 11usd coupons. I found this because I was thinking about buying the little brother of the ES9018K2M "fever" DAC which I'm still really impressed with. I needed a backup / secondary dac which is cheap and portable, works with OTG and can drive stuff properly at least up to 100-150ohm.  So I was quite happy to find this trick, I could order the stick for about 12usd with aliexpress standard shipping included. I'll post impressions when I get it  link: ES9023 dac
> [...]
> Third topic: sometimes a topic comes up about what music do we test with, or use as a benchmark for earbud evaluation. I just found a gem for vocals a few days ago. It's a channel called stories from the creators of Scary Pockets and Poomplamoose, and in my opinion this is their best project to this day. It's about minimalist, acoustic covers of popular songs, focusing on amazing guest singers. The music and the recording quality is top notch. The maxed out Spotify has waay better sound quality than the youtube version. [...]


Hi @robar you piqued my interest in the DAC. Would be nice to improve the audio on my work computer a little bit hehe. So this ES9023 DAC is a different one from the ES9018K2M you've owned? If so, do you have link to the 9018? I look forward to your review of the 9023. 
I also like Scary Pockets and Pomplamoose and use them regularly when reviewing or tuning hahaha.    



robar said:


> Has anyone tried these 300ohm N52 drivers? Quite cheap for a high impedance speaker, only 10usd but looks nice. Not sure if it's a newer or older model, I haven't really kept track of high impedance drivers. Looks similar to the "blue blob" 150ohm driver from the outside. It's possible that you already discussed it, I just couldn't find anything related in a quick search. (with the terrible search function of headfi haha)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001103895371.html
> 
> And here is a new 15.4mm steel mesh 32ohm titanium speaker which I haven't seen before. Extremely cheap for 3usd.  Looks unusual, any experience or opinions? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001296003822.html


I'm also interested in that one 



furyossa said:


> Short info for 300ohm N52
> 15.4mm steel mesh 32ohm titanium is a sensitive driver. 116±3dB for low resistance drivers (32ohm) ... hmmm... probably will skip this,
> The problem is at higher volume level sound can be harsh and distorted.
> Bery 600ohm has sensitivity around 100db, Bery 130ohm around 107db, graphene 400ohm around 102db. This is a good ratio for my taste.
> ...


Hi @furyossa thank you for your impressions (in reply to my question, even). Upon reading it again, I wonder if the V-shape tuning you describe is with the stock horseshoe foam intact?
My latest acquisition is an Audio Technica R70x, 99 dB/470 Ohm. Very very nice headphones, vocals and instruments open up with more volume, the sound is controlled and not offensive, similar to what you said about this 300 Ohm driver. Makes me want to try a high impedance earbuds even more.
Or, forget what I said and think of it as a justification to spend money on this hobby hahaha.


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Aug 4, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> Hi @robar you piqued my interest in the DAC. Would be nice to improve the audio on my work computer a little bit hehe. So this ES9023 DAC is a different one from the ES9018K2M you've owned? If so, do you have link to the 9018? I look forward to your review of the 9023.
> I also like Scary Pockets and Pomplamoose and use them regularly when reviewing or tuning hahaha.
> 
> 
> ...


The 400,500, and 600 ohm are the best, 400 ohms are have the best mix of highs and sub bass after tuning, they are also the most responsive to tuning. The 500 have the best sub bass but are a bit harder to tune, the 600 have good sub bass but are slightly rolled of on the highs and are very difficult to tune, better if you leave the factory tuning on this one


----------



## robar (Aug 4, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> Hi @robar you piqued my interest in the DAC. Would be nice to improve the audio on my work computer a little bit hehe. So this ES9023 DAC is a different one from the ES9018K2M you've owned? If so, do you have link to the 9018? I look forward to your review of the 9023.
> I also like Scary Pockets and Pomplamoose and use them regularly when reviewing or tuning hahaha.
> 
> 
> ...


Oh nice, than definitely give their "stories" youtube channel a try 

I can absolutely recommend the "DAC AUDIO" ES9018K2M DAC, it sounds really nice and has good power for very little money. First dac of mine which really brings the Faaeal Rosemary 150ohm alive. I have a vintage silver AKG K141 4-600ohm and it sounds punchy and dynamic as well. Just turn the volume down before trying, it gets very loud very fast with my pc.   It mainly works on computers, phone/android compatibility is very hit or miss, it needs good usb source definitely. I use it daily with my windows desktop computer. Here's a review that @furyossa showed me, and eventually sealed the deal for me:

(edit: srry I posted the wrong link before, this is the actual review)

and the link to the aliexpress listing from where I ordered:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32932392383.html

I have not yet received the "DAC AUDIO" ES9023P DAC, I think it'll arrive in 2-3 weeks if everything goes well. It's half the price of the ES9018K2M, and understandably it should be somewhat less good. However it supports android/OTG, and I expect it to be still noticeably better and more powerful than most type-c dongles for the same price. Of course it's all theory at this point but the reviews are promising. It appears to be from the same manufacturer who did the ES9018 so I have good faith in the tuning and performance of this dac. It could be the ultimate ultra-low-budget usb dac that is decent at everything for peanuts haha. Something that we could just throw in a laptop bag, plug into an office computer or bring along a vacation and not worry about much


----------



## furyossa (Aug 4, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> The 400,500, and 600 ohm are the best, 400 ohms are have the best mix of highs and sub bass after tuning, they are also the most responsive to tuning. The 500 have the best sub bass but are a bit harder to tune, the 600 have good sub bass but are slightly rolled of on the highs and are very difficult to tune, better if you leave the factory tuning on this one


Yup. I agree with you completely. Graphene (400ohm) has a nice balance of bass, mids and highs. All these drivers have a sensitivity (above 100db) and are not so hard to drive ie. you not need high output from Amp. These days many DAC/AMPs belove 100$ (even 50$) price range are OK choice for these DIY's.
Most of the high impedance headphones have a low sensitivity (belove100db) and theses require a better amplification to show their full potential.
Same case with earbuds and IEMs. I'm very interested in T-Music V5 (V5s is almost double the price because of the new cable but the same driver).This 400ohm driver with a sensitivity of 96db and F.R. 15-25000Hz really caught my attention


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Yup. I agree with you completely. Graphene (400ohm) has a nice balance of bass, mids and highs. All these drivers have a sensitivity (above 100db) and are not so hard to drive ie. you not need high output from Amp. These days many DAC/AMPs belove 100$ (even 50$) price range are OK choice for these DIY's.
> Most of the high impedance headphones have a low sensitivity (belove100db) and theses require a better amplification to show their full potential.
> Same case with earbuds and IEMs. I'm very interested in T-Music V5 (V5s is almost double the price because of the new cable but the same driver).
> This 400ohm driver with a sensitivity of 96db and F.R. 15-25000Hz really caught my attention


I was checking them out last year, but skipped out waiting for more info.. Price isn't too bad, the whent on sale during 11.11


----------



## furyossa (Aug 4, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> I was checking them out last year, but skipped out waiting for more info.. Price isn't too bad, the whent on sale during 11.11


Comments of previous versions are positive. Looks like V4 and V5 share the same cable. V5s have OCC cable but is too thin and probably rigid
They seem like a good candidate for a nice mod Balanced cable, silver cable, or MIX. Hmmm...this would make them shine. What do you think?


----------



## robar (Aug 4, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Yup. I agree with you completely. Graphene (400ohm) has a nice balance of bass, mids and highs. All these drivers have a sensitivity (above 100db) and are not so hard to drive ie. you not need high output from Amp. These days many DAC/AMPs belove 100$ (even 50$) price range are OK choice for these DIY's.
> Most of the high impedance headphones have a low sensitivity (belove100db) and theses require a better amplification to show their full potential.
> Same case with earbuds and IEMs. I'm very interested in T-Music V5 (V5s is almost double the price because of the new cable but the same driver).This 400ohm driver with a sensitivity of 96db and F.R. 15-25000Hz really caught my attention


I don't think sensitivity alone is enough to decide what can drive a certain speaker. Faaeal Rosemary is 150ohm with 106db sensitivity, and it sounds completely disgusting with any built-in sound output or even the SMSL X4. The volume is there but the sound is very dull, soft and dark. From my devices it only comes alive with my ES9018k2m. This is why there are so conflicting reviews about that earbud, many people just plug it in their weak dac and assume this is how it should sound. Same thing to a lesser degree with the 64ohm titanium and the Takstar Pro 80. Big improvement on good 3.5mm output, the whole sound opens up, bass becomes deeper and tighter, mids open up, treble becomes airy and crispy, music becomes exciting and alive. This is why I'm excited about the 2Vrms spec of the ES9023, it suggest a good output level as well.


----------



## furyossa (Aug 4, 2020)

robar said:


> I don't think sensitivity alone is enough to decide what can drive a certain speaker. Faaeal Rosemary is 150ohm with 106db sensitivity, and it sounds completely disgusting with any built-in sound output or even the SMSL X4. The volume is there but the sound is very dull, soft and dark. From my devices it only comes alive with my ES9018k2m. This is why there are so conflicting reviews about that earbud, many people just plug it in their weak dac and assume this is how it should sound. Same thing to a lesser degree with the 64ohm titanium and the Takstar Pro 80. Big improvement on good 3.5mm output, the whole sound opens up, bass becomes deeper and tighter, mids open up, treble becomes airy and crispy, music becomes exciting and alive. This is why I'm excited about the 2Vrms spec of the ES9023, it suggest a good output level as well.


I mention only the output level at low-cost DAC/amp, and I thought only of the volume level ie. output power which can push these high resistance drivers but not SQ.
And of course, for SQ we need a better DAC chip but this is a different topic 
New find https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001180479742.html
Is this the same shell from the NSC store? This is really cheap, even the version with the cable that looks good


----------



## Slater

Themilkman46290 said:


> The 400,500, and 600 ohm are the best, 400 ohms are have the best mix of highs and sub bass after tuning, they are also the most responsive to tuning. The 500 have the best sub bass but are a bit harder to tune, the 600 have good sub bass but are slightly rolled of on the highs and are very difficult to tune, better if you leave the factory tuning on this one



Which one is the 400ohm? Im having trouble finding it.


----------



## furyossa (Aug 4, 2020)

Slater said:


> Which one is the 400ohm? Im having trouble finding it.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33063234848.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32984770474.html
Same graphene-coated 400ohm driver with different covers


----------



## robar (Aug 4, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I mention only the output level at low-cost DAC/amp, and I thought only of the volume level ie. output power which can push these high resistance drivers but not SQ.
> And of course, for SQ we need a better DAC chip but this is a different topic
> New find https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001180479742.html
> Is this the same shell from the NSC store? This is really cheap, even the version with the cable that looks good


I've seen these Openheart earbuds a few days ago, they look very interesting. Very cheap for the raw parts they used in the build. Even the shell and cable alone would cost similar money from diy shops. I hope there'll be some reviews soon, I hope they didn't screw up the tuning. Not sure what "15.4mm graphene unit" means. Here's the another model with the more common bell-type shell.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001185272588.html
For 15usd this is nice deal even for just the parts, I would feel much better buying this than spending the same money just for empty shells in a diy store. Maybe I'll base my first mmcx project on something like this


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> I've seen these Openheart earbuds a few days ago, they look very interesting. Very cheap for the raw parts they used in the build. Even the shell and cable alone would cost similar money from diy shops. I hope there'll be some reviews soon, I hope they didn't screw up the tuning. Not sure what "15.4mm graphene unit" means. Here's the another model with the more common bell-type shell.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001185272588.html
> For 15usd this is nice deal even for just the parts, I would feel much better buying this than spending the same money just for empty shells in a diy store. Maybe I'll base my first mmcx project on something like this


Openheart sales only cable for $14.87. I have some cable with similar plug and I love small form factor and look. Graphene unit mean graphene-coated but I only saw small graphene drivers (16-32ohm) not 15.4mm. Also is very strange that shell + driver + mmcx cost less then 10$


----------



## assassin10000

The small sale this month took another $1 off that new 120Ω beryllium. Hmmm.

Anyone end up ordering anything?


----------



## robar (Aug 4, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Openheart sales only cable for $14.87. I have some cable with similar plug and I love small form factor and look. Graphene unit mean graphene-coated but I only saw small graphene drivers (16-32ohm) not 15.4mm. Also is very strange that shell + driver + mmcx cost less then 10$


I'm not sure what do you mean, the 15usd option says "include cable" and the image shows the earbud PLUS the cable. So they charge about extra 5-6usd for that which is pretty nice.  

(edit: in the meantime I saw that they do sell a similar cable individually for like 15usd, very interesting. I don't really see an exact improvement over the one they include) 

I think these parts are way overpriced at diy shops, these manufacturers probably buy them for peanuts.  There are a few other builders who sell earbuds with these shells for cheap like Fengru, Jietu etc. I don't know what kind of speaker could be in there, probably nothing special and also not well tuned. i hope it can be easily opened up without damaging the cables, so that putting in a nice speaker would be a piece of cake  this is what I'm thinking about  For me buying just mmcx shells would be quite expensive because stores only sell them in groups and for a lot of money, plus I should order cables etc as well, probably from other store, shippings costs add up etc. This is like 15 bucks minus coupons with free registered shipping for me, seems like a nice deal.

But first and foremost, I need glue  I just started searching for local sources, maybe I can find a shop in my country which sell e8000.

I would also try these shells but the shipping is high. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001206473873.html
I'll probably just buy e8000 glue and maybe another N50 speaker or some other cheap part to activate the coupon.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> I'm not sure what do you mean, the 15usd option says "include cable" and the image shows the earbud PLUS the cable. So they charge about extra 5-6usd for that which is pretty nice.
> 
> (edit: in the meantime I saw that they do sell a similar cable individually for like 15usd, very interesting. I don't really see an exact improvement over the one they include)
> 
> ...


Any mobile servis store use this glue. 
I bought B-7000, which is similar, in a local store.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 5, 2020)

Well, didn't see this one coming but Smabat has listed their M2 housings for sale independently on AliExpress. They use 15.4mm drivers on the M2 Pro, maybe a new MMCX option to use with those 300, 400, 500 & 600 ohm drivers?

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4001270287626.html




________________


Also just noticed my 14.8mm 40Ω bass drivers are now in country. Hopefully I will have them in a couple days to a week.


----------



## Themilkman46290

assassin10000 said:


> Well, didn't see this one coming but Smabat has listed their M2 housings for sale independently on AliExpress. They use 15.4mm drivers on the M2 Pro, maybe a new MMCX option to use with those 300, 400, 500 & 600 ohm drivers?
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4001270287626.html
> 
> ...


Was watching the same listing, but it seems they use some kind of adapter/lip on the driver itself, so you would need to atleast buy a driver for the parts.


----------



## assassin10000

Themilkman46290 said:


> Was watching the same listing, but it seems they use some kind of adapter/lip on the driver itself, so you would need to atleast buy a driver for the parts.



Maybe, could be the adapter is for extra security but the lip may still hold. Depending on the cover.

Worst case 3-4 dots of e8000 glue would also do the job and still be easily removable.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Maybe, could be the adapter is for extra security but the lip may still hold. Depending on the cover.
> 
> Worst case 3-4 dots of e8000 glue would also do the job and still be easily removable.


This *video* shows the golden "lip" on the driver. The question is how this adapter is attached to the inside of the driver. It can be seen that covers the back tuning holes.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> This *video* shows the golden "lip" on the driver. The question is how this adapter is attached to the inside of the driver. It can be seen that covers the back tuning holes.



Yeah, the problem is that is a rendering and is probably not 100% true to the actual product. So it's tough to really say.



In other news I couldn't resist anymore and ordered those 14.8mm 120Ω beryllium drivers.


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> This *video* shows the golden "lip" on the driver. The question is how this adapter is attached to the inside of the driver. It can be seen that covers the back tuning holes.


Yeah, that's what I was talking about, the adapter is made for 15.4mm but the housing looks like it's considerably smaller.. 
I am sure it can be glued but that would change the amount of inner space, it may put the driver too close to the tuning baffle or cover the driver holes, or eliminate the space needed to mount the driver itself..
But if anyone tries it, I am sure we are fairly curious

I was thinking to destroy one driver and mount some of my favorite 400ohms in it, but me and the wife are doing renovations so who knows if and when I might try (so far I have been boycotting Ali express, I am mad at the rich, pangolin and bat eating Chinese "upper class" for the economic and health crisis around the world, not to mention the late hungry panda)


----------



## furyossa

Anyway, it's an interesting solution for sure. Currently, I’m more attracted to ISN Audio Rambo 2


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 6, 2020)

Of course 2 days after I order another pair of drivers, mostly due to my impatience, these show up.





Gotta make/modify some shells and try them out.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 7, 2020)

Whoops. Forgot I had pre-made some shells, with connectors and leads ready to go.


14.8mm 40Ω Titanium 'bass' drivers.

Initial impressions (<15 minutes play time): a bassy, warmer sound signature with some mid-bass punchiness. Mids & highs are a half step back compared to the low end. Reminds me of the K's LBB to some degree. Time for some burn-in.


----------



## robar

assassin10000 said:


> Whoops. Forgot I had pre-made some shells, with connectors and leads ready to go.
> 
> 
> 14.8mm 40Ω Titanium 'bass' drivers.
> ...


Keep us updated on this speaker  I think the bassy sound signature is caused by the white cotton on speaker + reduced venting due to mmcx.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 7, 2020)

robar said:


> Keep us updated on this speaker  I think the bassy sound signature is caused by the white cotton on speaker + reduced venting due to mmcx.



Will do. I'm hoping the Ti diaphragm needs some burn in to settle. I'd like a tad more sub-bass and a little less mid-bass, as well as the mids/highs to come a little more forward.


Actually those would both cause LESS bass.
Generally speaking:
Less vent/airflow = less bass.
More vent(airflow = more bass.

Venting is about the same as the rear port (the normal stem one) is still completely open and I can slightly open it up with a round precision file if needed.


----------



## robar (Aug 7, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Will do. I'm hoping the Ti diaphragm needs some burn in to settle. I'd like a tad more sub-bass and a little less mid-bass, as well as the mids/highs to come a little more forward.
> 
> 
> Actually those would both cause LESS bass.
> ...


In my experience white cotton or anything really on the speaker directly, reduces the midrange around 1khz, and emphasizes midbass/lowmids and upper mids.

Somewhat related thing on shell venting after covering it with tuning foam, but it depends greatly on the shell and the placement and treatment of the new vents. If the venting is insufficient than of course it kills bass. If it's too much or is not covered properly than of course is dark and soft, like when you don't put any tuning on the vents.

What I meant is that in my experience, adding more venting basically gives you more headroom to play with, it relaxes mids and increases midbass if you leave it open yes, but then you can add more foam on the vent to flatten the sound signature out. With too few vents you can't get rid of the sharp v sound, you are locked into either bassy or anemic sound.  I'll create a graph for you.

Now, if you open more airflow through the stem than of course it also acts as a bass booster (I just did bass port mod in this fashion I'll share it later) , I'm speaking about opening holes directly above the speaker on classic shells. Not much experience on pk shells though, I need good 14.8 speaker first.  BTW, how did you preserve the airflow if the connector blocks the stem? I don't see on the picture.


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> BTW, how did you preserve the airflow if the connector blocks the stem? I don't see on the picture.



The MMCX is next to the port. I have to re-center the hole before tapping it for the MMCX.

Also when I epoxy them I don't go all the way around the rear, which allows airflow over the MMCX. Just like it would be if a cable knot was there.


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Aug 8, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Nope. By enlarging inner space you will reduce mid-high because the reflection of the sound wave is not the same, it's slower. Also, you will get a more spacious sound.
> Resonance in the wood chamber is also present which gives a little flavor to the sound signature. In short original shell simulate "closed-back" sound and modded
> (with large cavity) "open-back" sound


Hey, thanks for explaining your design, I have similar metal shells so I gave it a try, using a larger wood peice, and I have to say, your right, it definitely opens up the sound, I am going to try different woods and slightly different shapes and sizes but thanks for putting up your research, very helpful. 
I made a 1.5 mm hole in the back and covered it with different tuning papers (I keep the used tuning papers for times like this) covering the whole completely gives more sub bass but eats up some of the mids, more open gives more mid bass and sweetens up the mids, I am now using a bit of y3


----------



## furyossa (Aug 9, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Hey, thanks for explaining your design, I have similar metal shells so I gave it a try, using a larger wood peice, and I have to say, your right, it definitely opens up the sound, I am going to try different woods and slightly different shapes and sizes but thanks for putting up your research, very helpful.
> I made a 1.5 mm hole in the back and covered it with different tuning papers (I keep the used tuning papers for times like this) covering the whole completely gives more sub bass but eats up some of the mids, more open gives more mid bass and sweetens up the mids, I am now using a bit of y3







*1.)))* Last week I tried to make a pole holder from hazelnut wood for a metal shell. I was unlucky because when I drilled a large hole where a metal shell passes,
a wooden pole cracked. Maybe if I have a little more patience I'll try again 
Similar concept have KBEAR Knight,  REECHO RC ONE,  Rambo 2 (not the movie), etc. The vent at the top is inspired by Onkyo E700M
In the meantime, I prepared the shells. In the picture below you can see the top-bottom holes that I drilled, and on the left shell there is a small hole on the top in the shape of a capsule (for the top vent), and on the right picture, you can see a square hole that is on the bottom (for wires).
I also started preparing cherry-wood shells for some future projects and a small Y-splitter.





*2.))) *I see your design a little vague because of the angle of the camera, but this is how I see it (illustration no.2).
BTW I really like your "RAW" design, especially the colors 

*3.)))* My first concept was similar to yours, back vent and bigger shell, but I decided to change it to be more ergonomic by reducing the size to follow
the arc shape of antitragus. The vent position is changed also (on the bottom side of the shell)

I don't know but for me, wood " sweetens " the overall sound. I love to use it because it gives an unpredictable effect of course in a positive sense.
It can be good or bad, but the most important thing is that there are a lot of different types of wood to choose from. 
Plastic and metal, on the other hand, are predictable in terms of resonance.


----------



## captione

Hey guys, I'm back from finishing my projects. Good to see this thread being more informative, the past replies had been really helpful.

So I finished 4 pairs of totally diy'ed/assembled earbuds (and one broke from extensive tweaking) and few experiments and reshelling on existing earbuds, especially the Monk Plus Lite. I'll just put the descriptions, details, pictures and other things in a spoiler to keep things short. 
I have 3 other tweaks and reshells with other earbuds (MS16s, VE Monk, Awei ES10 drivers) but I will exclude them since they didn't made a drastic change or made only a slight improvement. I'll post them when experimentation makes a good difference. 


Spoiler: Project #1: 64ohms "Black Epoxy, Big Solder dot" titanium plated driver 






*Impressions: *Warm and sparkly, very dynamic, very impressive clarity, gets very loud.
*Notes:* Good build with good results ootb without any tweaking, pretty much ready to go. I had a hiccup when changing the faceplate though, since the drivers are glued shut, but I successfully swapped without any problems.





Spoiler: Project #2: 32ohms "Black Epoxy, Big Solder dot" with green positive indicator






*Impressions: *A lean, balanced, more sweeter brother of the 64ohms titanium plated, retains the sparkle but a bit strident in that part for complex songs. 
*Notes: *Like its big brother, the 64ohms, this was also pretty good ootb. Need no retuning (maybe next time, I'm gonna fix the upper region performance)





Spoiler: Project #3: 16ohms "Yuin SR PRO" driver with PK shell (two vents)






*Impressions: *Very warm and midcentric, almost strident, lacks in separation. 
*Notes: *This was a pain in the ass to work with, especially with my first time, but it was also very fun and easy to tweak with, that is until you take off the driver's thin vent cover and cuts off the thin wire connecting to the coil. It was very depressing but I guess it's part of learning. 

I'm gonna salvage the faceplates and put in PS4 earbud drivers in it since it fits in 14.8mm faceplates.








Spoiler: Project #4: 32 ohms" VE Monk type drivers with metal faceplate" bass variant












*Impressions: *Very warm, very good bass response with a bit of upper mid peak

*Notes: *This took the shortest time to assemble. I originally put foams under the three vents of the wood shell but it made the whole signature less warm and the balance of the bass and upper mids made the vocals glare lol, so I removed the foam underneath it. I let the shell resonate since it's actual wood, I'm glad I spent a couple more for these shells vs. the more cheaper plastic looking one. Just gotta fix the upper mid glare and this would be much more amazing.





Spoiler: Project #5: reshelled VE Monk Lite






*Impressions: *Very lean almost neutral, cold tonality. Upper mid-lower treble focus. Clarity is* INSANELY good. *Bass is well dosed compared to non modded/reshelled*. 
Notes: *This was a pain in the ass too, broke two faceplates for this to work and fit the smaller drivers in an angle that I want, but the results are amazing, it's almost a different earbud from the original lol, except the upper mid is clearly showing its roots although not glaring. Just by thinking how I should fit a horseshoe foam in the driver turned this into one of the biggest surprises last week lol. Four Tet's Dialogue and Ryo Fukui's Scenery sounds amazing on this one.



This has been a really good experience for me. Looking forward to another DIY build! 😁


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Hey guys, I'm back from finishing my projects. Good to see this thread being more informative, the past replies had been really helpful.
> 
> So I finished 4 pairs of totally diy'ed/assembled earbuds (and one broke from extensive tweaking) and few experiments and reshelling on existing earbuds, especially the Monk Plus Lite. I'll just put the descriptions, details, pictures and other things in a spoiler to keep things short.
> I have 3 other tweaks and reshells with other earbuds (MS16s, VE Monk, Awei ES10 drivers) but I will exclude them since they didn't made a drastic change or made only a slight improvement. I'll post them when experimentation makes a good difference.
> ...


Congrats man! Really nice work. I see you struggled a little but on the other hand, it paid off. That is the charm of this hobby.
At least, you mastered transparent shells build


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 12, 2020)

robar said:


> Keep us updated on this speaker  I think the bassy sound signature is caused by the white cotton on speaker + reduced venting due to mmcx.



Took them off burn-in after 100 or so hours, there wasn't as much change as I'd like. Still a warm, punchy signature. The mid-bass still sounds a bit boomy or intrusive with foams on (I used offset donut foams).

Because of that, I pulled the foams off and the boominess disappears, mid-bass punch is tamed and the mids/highs are now presented in a more forward fashion. Upper mids/lower treble almost becomes fatiguing and is borderline too much for me (can easily be fixed with EQ, but for the sake of giving impressions I listened without EQ). Definitely a driver to use without foams IMO.


When it comes to IEM's I prefer a sound sig that is somewhat harman like, but with 1-3db less upper mids/lower treble and a bit less bass by 2-3 db that tapers into the lower mids a bit smoother (ie: my mh755/mh750 I pull about -3db at 31/62 hz and -1.5 db around 125hz via eq).


That being said with no foams the bass is still decent in quantity until it reaches into the sub-bass (50-60hz and below), these drivers start picking up around 30-33hz when I did a sweep and the bass is fairly level from 35h40hz up. In other words bass rolls off around 30-33hz.

Bass/mid-bass and lower mids are good but the upper mids/lower treble is a bit harsh if I turn the volume up above my average listening volume (low for most). So if I was in a somewhat noisy place, out and about or when driving/commuting it may be fatiguing/too harsh. When sitting at home or in a quiet environment they are ok.


----------



## robar (Aug 13, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Took them off burn-in after 100 or so hours, there wasn't as much change as I'd like. Still a warm, punchy signature. The mid-bass still sounds a bit boomy or intrusive with foams on (I used offset donut foams).
> 
> Because of that, I pulled the foams off and the boominess disappears, mid-bass punch is tamed and the mids/highs are now presented in a more forward fashion. Upper mids/lower treble almost becomes fatiguing and is borderline too much for me (can easily be fixed with EQ, but for the sake of giving impressions I listened without EQ). Definitely a driver to use without foams IMO.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you prefer a lean, flat/smooth sound signature. Have you tried removing the white cover from the speakers? I almost always remove any cover from new speakers for similar reason that you brought up - it usually creates harsh  upper mids, boomy bass, makes the tuning process harder.
I personally could never again use an earbud without foam. I used them like that throughout my teen and I've had enough of harsh thin sound + hard plastic in my ears haha.

I prefer a sound signature that evokes a large set of speakers, so deep impactful bass, natural and smooth midrange, airy treble. I'm experimenting with methods of side-by-side comparison of earbuds and speakers for tuning purposes. I'll share the process in the close future.

Question for everybody: How do you evaluate your tunings? Do you have some kind of a reference gear or benchmark that you use? How do you assess sound signature? It can get quite subjective, especially when comparing different kind of audio gears. I mean, sometimes a so-called V-shaped earbud can sound much flatter than a trendy closed headphone. Sometimes a so-called flat earbud can sound anemic and dull compared to even a small bookshelf speaker. How do you navigate between the relative (compare only to earbuds) and the absolute (compare between other types of audio reproduction). I guess it also depends on the individual ear + shell synergy. For example, I have some shells that go very deep and tight into my ears, which magnifies the feeling of pressure and harshness, so with these shells I prefer a less obtrusive signature. While with other shells that have a more relaxed fit, I can get braver and tune the sound to be more exciting.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 13, 2020)

robar said:


> It sounds like you prefer a lean, flat/smooth sound signature. Have you tried removing the white cover from the speakers? I almost always remove any cover from new speakers for similar reason that you brought up - it usually creates harsh  upper mids, boomy bass, makes the tuning process harder.
> I personally could never again use an earbud without foam. I used them like that throughout my teen and I've had enough of harsh thin sound + hard plastic in my ears haha.
> 
> I prefer a sound signature that evokes a large set of speakers, so deep impactful bass, natural and smooth midrange, airy treble. I'm experimenting with methods of side-by-side comparison of earbuds and speakers for tuning purposes. I'll share the process in the close future.
> ...



I recently tried a bright/neutral IEM (T2+) and it was not for me. I like a modified Harman (-2/3 db of both bass and upper mids/lower treble to the 2020 curve). So a mild U or V shape, as I like the mids and vocals to be well presented.

For the bass I prefer it someehat boosted, with an emphasis towards sub-bass. I tend to EQ -2db or so at 125/150hz to clean up the bass. Makes it sound more like speakers with a separate subwoofer.


As far as removing the white tuning cotton, I'm not sure I want to as they do sound pretty good with no foams. That and I don't have any others currently in case I damage them.

These are even better with EQ as it has a +5db peak around 5-600hz that once tamed helps the sound, that and -2db for the upper mids/ lower treble. Since I wear them over ear the 'hardness' is a basically a non-issue for comfort.


I usually let my ears reset overnight before going back to check or finalize tuning. Usually there are small changes to be done, as during tuning I adjust to the changes as they are being made which can lean towards going too far in one direction or another.


I'm trying to setup a measurement rig currently. Got a Dayton IMM-6 a couple days ago but it appears my laptop soundcard does not like to register sound below 150hz and above 8khz (rolls off hard on both ends). I've ordered an adapter to try my USB-C DAC which has a mic input to see if that works.


----------



## DBaldock9

assassin10000 said:


> ...
> 
> I'm trying to setup a measurement rig currently. Got a Dayton IMM-6 a couple days ago but it appears my laptop soundcard does not like to register sound below 150hz and above 8khz (rolls off hard on both ends). I've ordered an adapter to try my USB-C DAC which has a mic input to see if that works.



If the Mic Input rolls off the lows & highs, it may work to use an external Mic preamp, and the Line Input on your computer.


----------



## robar (Aug 13, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> I recently tried a bright/neutral IEM (T2+) and it was not for me. I like a modified Harman (-2/3 db of both bass and upper mids/lower treble to the 2020 curve). So a mild U or V shape, as I like the mids and vocals to be well presented.
> 
> For the bass I prefer it someehat boosted, with an emphasis towards sub-bass. I tend to EQ -2db or so at 125/150hz to clean up the bass. Makes it sound more like speakers with a separate subwoofer.
> 
> ...


I see. But how do you know what the harman curve sounds like? Even if you measure the response, it will never match up with those curves because they are designed for a different type of audio device and with a specific measuring rig which adds a lot of specific resonances into the graph, which we will never be able to replicate with diy gear. And even the harman curve is just a wild guesswork based on some assumptions and tests, this is why it changes all the time etc. What I mean is that how do you get a semi-objective reference to make a judgement about tuning? Or it's just all subjective based on some song that you listened to a lot, or do you compare it to a favorite audio gear of yours? I'm just interested in other people's methods.
I don't trust in listening to frequency sweeps, it's quite misleading in my opinion, maybe it helps notice sudden peaks but it's too linear to use it as a test for overall signature or tonal balance, we never really hear more distant frequencies side by side.

At the moment, I can roughly categorize the overall signature by measuring + side-by-side comparing it to different signature gear + listening to some test music. I mean playing the music on two devices real time and quicky switching back and forth, so that the differences in signature are obvious. This gets me in the ballpark of "decent" or "optimal" sound, but for fine tuning I'm not sure what to do besides taste + picking something that we like listening to and a/b test the hell out of it.

For overall signature I had some insights though when I compared earbuds directly to speakers that I like (will post pics soon), it's very different to actually listen to them back and forth than just remembering how something sounded on a speaker. The mids and highs are richer airier and smoother than on most earbuds, while the bass is really tight and deep. There is a certain fluidity of sound that only my favorite builds can kind of emulate from my collection. Many earbuds just sound too dry or lifeless or dull or muddy.  For my revelation the overall signature of my so called "neutral" and "u-shaped" buds were the closest. The "neutral" had the closest midrange while the "u-shaped" had the closest bass/treble and airiness. (based on 19-21 heavy  bass speaker)  I plan to listen this way a lot to train my ears to better pick up the nuances of speaker-like sound. The DAC choice helps a lot of course, my es9018 dac was crucial to get the treble/airiness up to speed against the speaker


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> I see. But how do you know what the harman curve sounds like? Even if you measure the response, it will never match up with those curves because they are designed for a different type of audio device and with a specific measuring rig which adds a lot of specific resonances into the graph, which we will never be able to replicate with diy gear. And even the harman curve is just a wild guesswork based on some assumptions and tests, this is why it changes all the time etc. What I mean is that how do you get a semi-objective reference to make a judgement about tuning. Or it's just all subjective based on some song that you listened to a lot, or do you compare it to a favorite audio gear of yours? I'm just interested in other people's methods. I don't trust in listening to frequency sweeps, it's quite misleading in my opinion, maybe it helps notice sudden peaks but it's too linear to use it as a test for overall signature or tonal balance, we never really hear more distant frequencies side by side.
> 
> At the moment, I can roughly categorize the overall signature by measuring + side-by-side comparing it to different signature gear + listening to some test music. I mean playing the music on both real time and quicky switching back and forth, so that the differences in signature are obvios. This gets me in the ballpark of "decent" or "optimal" sound, but for fine tuning I'm not sure what to do besides taste + picking something that we like listening to and a/b test the hell out of it.
> 
> For overall signature I had some insights though when I compared earbuds directly to speakers that I like (will post pics soon), it's very different to actually listen to them back and forth than just remembering how something sounded on a speaker. The mids and highs are richer airier and smoother than on most earbuds, while the bass is really tight and deep. There is a certain fluidity of sound that only my favorite builds can kind of emulate from my collection. Many earbuds just sound too dry or lifeless or dull.  For my relevation the overall signature of my so called "neutral" and "u-shaped" buds were the closest. The "neutral" had the closest midrange while the "u-shaped" had the closest bass/treble and airiness. (based on 19-21 heavy  bass speaker)  I plan to listen this way a lot to train my ears to better pick up the nuances of speaker-like sound. The DAC choice helps a lot of course, my es9018 dac was crucial to get the treble/airiness up to speed against the speaker



I had a pair of the buds+ which measure to match the harman 2020 curve and based on what I subjectively liked/disliked about it, is my frame of reference. At least for an initial description of my preferred sound sig.

I agree graphs are not an end all be all, they just give the initial idea of the sound. Kind of like ordering a burger or sandwich, you kind of know what you're going to get but the flavor can be wildly different depending on ingredients and preparation.

I only use sweeps to figure out roll-off or if an area seems peaky to isolate where the problem is.


Otherwise, for me it's mostly subjective listening. I compare with songs (some I've listened to for 15-20+ years) and various genres, I sometimes a/b vs other earbuds to understand the differences. It's hard to put into words but listening to them is the only way to tell if I like them or the changes I make. I haven't been able to do any measurements for more objective tuning (yet). My setup is still 'under construction'.


I think of the 'fluidity' you are talking about as the dynamics of the sound. I agree, it is very hard to find a setup that does well presenting a dynamic, musical, detailed, airy but not shouty or fatiguing sound. That also presents clean, articulate bass with depth and no bleed or muddiness. 

For my DIY builds, the best (by memory only, as I still need a replacement driver) was the 150Ω redfilm pk1 driver.


I agree, many buds just don't quite 'do it' for me; like the ry4s, diy sr2 16Ω, b40,  pt15, pt25 or bk2 or other buds. Others like them but to me they just didn't sound the way I want/like (veiled, dull, lifeless, sharp, shouty, grainy, etc). 

The Ourart ACG did wonderful mids & highs, and then original ST-10 does bass very well while still being a bud with neutral mids & highs. I've sold the ACG but kept the ST-10 for reference (for now).


----------



## robar (Aug 14, 2020)

Here's the quick setup that allows me to quickly switch back-and-forth between earbud and speaker. Because my main interest is general impressions about tuning, I'm not concerned about lossless  audio and stuff like that.
So, I open Spotify on both my laptop and mobile phone. I plug my dac into the laptop and connect the earbud. I connect my phone to the speakers (Mordaunt Short MS904 speakers via bluetooth dac/amp in this case) With the playback device option in spotify, I can switch between the two setups even in the middle of a song by a single click.




assassin10000 said:


> I had a pair of the buds+ which measure to match the harman 2020 curve and based on what I subjectively liked/disliked about it, is my frame of reference. At least for an initial description of my preferred sound sig.
> 
> I agree graphs are not an end all be all, they just give the initial idea of the sound. Kind of like ordering a burger or sandwich, you kind of know what you're going to get but the flavor can be wildly different depending on ingredients and preparation.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your insights, much appreciated!  I'll keep in mind your recommendation, do you have any other earbud/headphone in mind which act as a nice tuning reference?

For me "fluidity" means a certain ability of the speaker/earbud to evoke a full, 3D, immersive sound, it's mainly about the raw performance of the speaker (weighted by the quality of dac and tuning) A bit similar to 24fps vs 60fps, or saying the lines vs acting it out.
Most cheap earbuds (even the decently tuned blue qian25) has a dry, almost 2D-like effect, the life is just somehow missing in the sound. I tried to build several things with salvaged drivers from vidos, ry4x, ry4c etc but something is just missing, my B40 speakers are a bit better but they still lack the depth and energy to sound convincing to me. Fortunately even the cheapest recommended diy drivers are a big step forwards in this regard.


----------



## assassin10000

Due to curiosity. I decided to get a measurement setup. 

It's in progress still, after my initial problem. (The onboard soundcard of my laptop, had terrible results, rolled off both below 200hz and above 8khz. Solved it by bypassing the onboard soundcard and using my USB-C DAC.)

(Laptop -> USB C adapter -> TC35B -> IMM-6 -> DIY coupler)

Of course, this is an earbud thread so ignore the DIY IEM coupler in the above pic.


Earbud measurements mostly seem off, either  boosted from bass thru the lower mids or lacking bass altogether trying to avoid that problem while measuring.

I'm guessing a partial seal like our ears have, will give a much more accurate measurement. To do this, a partial ear (auricle) is needed to hold the earbud and needs to attach to the mic somehow. I know others have ordered silicone outer ears to try but I decided to home-brew one.


Used some thermoplastic to make a negative impression of my ear. FYI this takes forever to cool, since body temp keeps it from cooling quickly (takes over an hour). Had to do it a 2nd time as I didn't realize the inside would still be soft after 30 minutes. 

The second time through I used ice cubes against it to help reduce its temp. Still took almost an hour before I felt safe trying to remove it from my ear without it deforming. Once out I stuck it in the freezer.



After pulling the mold out of the freezer I used hot glue to make the outer ear shape. With frequent trips of 5-10 minutes to the freezer so the hot glue didn't heat the mold up enough to soften it. Used a piece of latex hose for the connection/ear canal. 



Surprisingly it wasn't crazy hard to remove once fully cooled off. Worked around the edges a bit to break the initial hold and then it popped right off.




It works. Shortened the hose piece quite a bit compared to the pics above. I wanted the resonant peak as close to 8k as I could get it, ended up around 7k. Close enough for now. 



Here's some measurements of three 14.8mm drivers I have built and laying around.




I'm not 100% satisfied but it's better than holding it against a tube and measurements are repeatable. The hot glue doesn't conform like an ear or softer material would, so there is room for improvement.

Anyone got any additional ideas of materials or a coupler design that would be worth trying?


----------



## robar

Hello there!
Any notable purchases in the current sale?
Has anyone tried these drivers?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974104608.html (150ohm 15.4mm mx760-style cover)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001133291418.html (19-21 balanced version steel mesh)
Also thinking about the n52 300ohm and others but I'd prefer the smaller covers and cheaper price of the above, also I'm a bit afraid the 300ohm would need more power than I could provide.

What do you think about this kind of shell?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001283457554.html
.
Any experience with cheap bluetooth receivers by the way? The disposable 10 dollar ones like xiaomi/ugreen/baseus etc Just for low impedance stuff for casual use.


----------



## 730user (Aug 24, 2020)

robar
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974104608.html - bad sound


----------



## robar (Aug 24, 2020)

By the way, I got the ES9023 PCM2706 dac and unfortunately it's not really ideal for what I wanted to use it. While it works OK with android, the pcm2706 completely bypasses the windows system volume, so it always work at max level. The seller sent an obscure driver which I didn't install in the end. On android it offers a definite improvement but the sound opens up by increasing the volume, so this is ideally designed with 100% volume and a separate amplifier in mind. I would say this is a good budget device for connecting a speaker/headphone amp to the computer, but not for directly driving earphones/headphones. I connected it to my simple 2.1 pc speaker and it improved the SQ quite a bit so I did find some use for it. If you want a cheap standalone solution for PC, just buy the bigger brother es9018k2m stick, that works really well with earphone/headphones.



730user said:


> robar
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974104608.html - bad sound


Thanks! Is this your personal experience? I'll skip it then..


----------



## Plicco

Hello everyone, 
I'm a new used passionate about DIY in many fields and recently I've been trying to learn something about making my own audio stuff, both to save money and improve the quality of my gears, but also of course to have fun and learn. 

My first project would be a pair of earbuds, because I find IEM really uncomfortable for my ears unfortunately, so I use them only when I want to have a full immersion listening session but not in everyday life, which means I often end up listening to music with crappy cheap buds with bad cables. 
I would also like to make them mmcx so I can use my good cables across many different buds and IEM, I had **** ones (I guess dt15) but the glue came apart with the hot weather and I literally step into one of the drivers while walking, which made me feel pretty frustrated and started to make my interest in DIY grow. 

Anyway, my first question would be about drivers, I've seen a lot of them on Ali, some cheap and some very expensive, but many of them without reviews, so I thought I would ask you guys for help in choosing the best ones. 
I'll start by saying that I've heard about the red film ones and the beryllium, the red film unfortunately are 14.8 which feels a bit small to me (the ones available now at least, I wish I could still find the 150 ohm ones) and the beryllium are on my radar as a quality buy not crazy expensive choice, yet I'd like to get something to practice with before building with them. 

Ideally I would also be interested in good choices around 5/7$ but I'm not sure they would be better than the insanely cheap 2/3$ ones, so I don't know if it's worth buying them instead of going straight for beryllium after messing with a couple cheap ones. 
I'm just drowning in the ocean of drivers! 😁 
I was also trying to find some good 64 ohm ones, but I can't seem to find anything worth considering, unless again we go into the price range of the beryllium. 

I would have another million questions, but for now I'll ask just another one: do you know the difference between the metal shells sold on NSC, the zejat a10 and f1, they seem really very similar. 

Ideally I'm aiming at building something with a sound signature similar to the **** ****, airy and wide, not too bassy and with as much details as possible, mids present but not dominating, let's just say pretty neutral and a bit cold, that's my style 😁

Of course I would appreciate every suggestion, I went back to page maybe 120 but reading everything is overwhelming, so I hope you won't mind if I asked for advice! 
Thank you very much and compliments for your works, I've seen some pretty stunning earbuds on these pages!!! 😱 😂


----------



## robar (Aug 24, 2020)

Plicco said:


> Hello everyone,
> I'm a new used passionate about DIY in many fields and recently I've been trying to learn something about making my own audio stuff, both to save money and improve the quality of my gears, but also of course to have fun and learn.
> 
> My first project would be a pair of earbuds, because I find IEM really uncomfortable for my ears unfortunately, so I use them only when I want to have a full immersion listening session but not in everyday life, which means I often end up listening to music with crappy cheap buds with bad cables.
> ...


From the cheap 15.4mm ones, I can recommend these

19-21 "heavy bass" - for me this is a pretty airy, slightly cold driver, from my collection this has the best extension, detail and balance
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html

N50 steel mesh - this is smoother, less airly and somewhat more midcentric, still nice. Overall mellow character. In default setup it has a warmish v-shaped signature but you can tune it to pretty flat (put in most shells that are not mx500, or remove foam from speaker, add standard horseshoe to bundled shell) or even improve the v-shape to be tighter and cleaner (remove foam, switch to standard shell with standard horseshoe). For me it lacks a bit impact and sparkle but still a solid choice in this price point, I also like the fit that the smaller steel mesh cover provides.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33027995148.html

I don't glue and use simple cables, not mmcx, so please take that into account

other cheap speakers I've tried:
I also have the 64ohm titanium with blue dot (costs around 5-6usd) which is darkish and bassy so I'm not sure if it's your cup of tea.
EMX500 speaker is the cheapest (about 3usd at jietu, also sold in 5 pair sets for about 12usd), it's bright with decent bass, but for me it's a bit too thin and grainy, much much better than vido speaker for example but I would just buy the 19-21 heavy bass instead. I also tried the N52 32ohm speaker which is kind of similar to the N50, but I compared them side by side and the n52 was brighter grainier, I prefer the N50.


----------



## furyossa (Aug 24, 2020)

robar said:


> From the cheap 15.4mm ones, I can recommend these
> 
> 19-21 "heavy bass" - for me this is a pretty airy, slightly cold driver, from my collection this has the best extension, detail and balance
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html
> ...


You explained everything, man  


Plicco said:


> Hello everyone,
> I'm a new used passionate about DIY in many fields and recently I've been trying to learn something about making my own audio stuff, both to save money and improve the quality of my gears, but also of course to have fun and learn.
> 
> My first project would be a pair of earbuds, because I find IEM really uncomfortable for my ears unfortunately, so I use them only when I want to have a full immersion listening session but not in everyday life, which means I often end up listening to music with crappy cheap buds with bad cables.
> ...



When I start with this hobby I read probably 90% of this thread. It's so informative but the main benefit is you can meet very nice people
and learn a lot from them and share different ideas.
My suggestion is not so different from @robar.
First, you need some tools On Ali, of  course, you can find all or in the local hardware store. Good soldering skills are also big plus.
As for the drivers, start with 2-3 pairs of 32,64,150 ohm (in range of 10$), when you master these than try beryllium or graphene drivers.
You will be more proud of these cheap drivers, because you will in most cases, use them more often. You can experiment, try different builds
with or without mmcx but for these IMHO, you'll not need some fancy cables or mmcx. Pure wire connection with driver is the safest and of course,
you can always change the cables when it gets damaged. And stay away from glue 
For high impedance drivers, I use metal shells and mmcx with balanced cables so you will spend probably more than 50$ and more nerves and little glue 
For me personally the goal of this hobby is not to go and find TOTL earbuds, which not exists  , but to try and tune more different drivers and build and get different
sound signatures to be able to enjoy different music genres.
So, there is no strict rule which drivers to buy first, expensive or cheap, in the end, you will buy both


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 24, 2020)

^ what they said.

If you have used buds with the larger 15.4mm drivers and had no discomfort, then consider it a good thing that you won't be limited to the smaller selection of 14.8mm drivers, like I am. 

I prefer the fit of the smaller drivers. The larger become uncomfortable to me during longer sessions and I typically use them for long sessions...


----------



## Plicco

Thank you @robar and @furyossa those are great advice! 

And yes the nice thing about DIY for me is customisation, finding the best combination of drivers, cables, shells and tuning for my ear and my preferences. For now I'd like to start with cheap things to use mostly for phone calls or on the go, where there is too much noise to make quality too important, then I'd like to build some better ones, at least those beryllium ones which are now priced at 15$ which seems pretty good to me. 

I already build cables for bigger hi-fi devices so I'm used to soldering, just not too trained with really small things  
That's why I would be happy to build some good enough cable (as long as we don't go into cables snake oil zone) and then swap drivers and shells to try different things, I see a cable as a long lasting value 😁

I guess I've pretty much seen all the choices, there's maybe just one more I'm curious to ask you about, which is this one:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_BT81nG

Seems better than the ones with red film at the same price, and I would prefer this also because of the plastic case, I'd probably buy one of the two along with the 19-21 you suggested. 

Thank you very much for now, I'll go back to read this whole thread! 😁


----------



## furyossa

Plicco said:


> Thank you @robar and @furyossa those are great advice!
> 
> And yes the nice thing about DIY for me is customisation, finding the best combination of drivers, cables, shells and tuning for my ear and my preferences. For now I'd like to start with cheap things to use mostly for phone calls or on the go, where there is too much noise to make quality too important, then I'd like to build some better ones, at least those beryllium ones which are now priced at 15$ which seems pretty good to me.
> 
> ...


Then you are fully prepared, you just need good eyesight and nerves.  
The worst part and most annoying is for sure the soldering of male and female MMCX. 
If you use LG G-series (above ver. 6) or V-Series (above ver 20) you can drive 400ohm graphene driver, 
which is in the range of beryllium 600ohm (it's too much for any phone even for the quad-DAC). 
Go with 19Hz-21kHz, and some driver above 64ohm to see the difference.
It's interesting that all drivers above 64ohm sound better on LG G7. 
Maybe I'm wrong but probably Quad-DAC is activated only at higher OHM drivers.


----------



## robar (Aug 24, 2020)

Plicco said:


> Thank you @robar and @furyossa those are great advice!
> 
> And yes the nice thing about DIY for me is customisation, finding the best combination of drivers, cables, shells and tuning for my ear and my preferences. For now I'd like to start with cheap things to use mostly for phone calls or on the go, where there is too much noise to make quality too important, then I'd like to build some better ones, at least those beryllium ones which are now priced at 15$ which seems pretty good to me.
> 
> ...


You're welcome, and please share your progress 
About the link: This is the 32ohm n52 speaker I wrote about. I literally bought this with the n50 red rim and compared them side by side in identical tunings. Overall they are very similar, but the n52 is brighter and a bit grainier for me,  the n50 sounded a bit more organic and balanced to my taste. I also have a variant with white dp100 cover which is kind of a mix between the two. All of them are really nice deals, just watch out for the bundled shell, if the side markings are not printed than it's a modified mx500 which sound different (less bass more midcentric, I had a post about ) The drivers generally have nice midrange, well controlled treble and about average bass.
Definitely buy a set of mx500 shells that come with the standard tuning foam and some cheap cables for quick prototyping. I'm curious to hear how you like the drivers


----------



## Plicco

Thank you for pointing this out, I had seen other versions called n52 so I thought it wasn't the one I posted. 
In this case I guess I will go exactly for the two drivers you have suggested me @robar thank you again! 😁


----------



## robar

Plicco said:


> Thank you for pointing this out, I had seen other versions called n52 so I thought it wasn't the one I posted.
> In this case I guess I will go exactly for the two drivers you have suggested me @robar thank you again! 😁


You're welcome, choose what you prefer, for the price all of these are great 

Btw, there are some other options out there under 6usd that we haven't explored yet, like there are two 32ohm titaniums (purple dot and a cheap one at jietu), different variations of the 19-21 (balanced, clear) etc. I hope someone will try those out sometime so I don't have to be the lab rat again haha. I hope the new large style 14.8mm speaker from cklewis will arrive to me someday, so I can review it for you all


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Then you are fully prepared, you just need good eyesight and nerves.
> The worst part and most annoying is for sure the soldering of male and female MMCX.
> If you use LG G-series (above ver. 6) or V-Series (above ver 20) you can drive 400ohm graphene driver,
> which is in the range of beryllium 600ohm (it's too much for any phone even for the quad-DAC).
> ...



Agreed, soldering the MMCX can be a giant pain.

Correct, the LG dac is supposed to only turn on at 50ohm and above. Some turn on slightly lower in the 45-48ohm range. Depending on which model, iirc.



robar said:


> You're welcome, choose what you prefer, for the price all of these are great
> 
> Btw, there are some other options out there under 6usd that we haven't explored yet, like there are two 32ohm titaniums (purple dot and a cheap one at jietu), different variations of the 19-21 (balanced, clear) etc. I hope someone will try those out sometime so I don't have to be the lab rat again haha. I hope the new large style 14.8mm speaker from cklewis will arrive to me someday, so I can review it for you all



Agreed.

I just got those 14.8mm 120Ω beryllium drivers in. They come in the larger 16.7mm covers. The ones that come on the cheap B40 and with the $5 pack of shells. I'm not a fan of those covers.

I've already transplanted them into a different cover (the stainless ones from the N55 64Ω and Ti 40Ω), for my own comfort/use. Got them on burn-in now.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Got them on burn-in now



Lucky you.  I have been waiting for one pair of earbuds from PENON for more than 40 days and I think it will not arrive in the end.


----------



## robar (Aug 24, 2020)

@furyossa do you think b7000 glue is good for fixing loose covers to shells? I have like 5-6 pair of shells that are supposed to be 15.4 but in fact they cant even keep on the speakers. I really want to utilize them (tape method is unstable for me). Two pairs of wooden shells, one set of h180 style, 2 set of new plastic fron nsc, several random salvaged one also.. I could only find b7000 for cheap in EU ebay, this is why I'm asking.


assassin10000 said:


> Agreed, soldering the MMCX can be a giant pain.
> 
> Correct, the LG dac is supposed to only turn on at 50ohm and above. Some turn on slightly lower in the 45-48ohm range. Depending on which model, iirc.
> 
> ...


Wow I'm excited for your 120ohm impressions! Luckily I'm personally ok with those covers as they are basically the same size as 15.4mm plastic from the outside. BTW I tried the B40 speaker with same cover on classic pk shell (from sr2 16ohm) and it fits nicely! So large style cover seem to be compatible with both types pk shells


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Lucky you.  I have been waiting for one pair of earbuds from PENON for more than 40 days and I think it will not arrive in the end.



Definitely. I have had a few items from March/April which disappeared in shipping. Also had one show up 4 months later.

About 2 years ago I had one item show up after 6 months. You never know lol.



robar said:


> Wow I'm excited for your 120ohm impressions! Luckily I'm personally ok with those covers as they are basically the same size as 15.4mm plastic from the outside. BTW I tried the B40 speaker with same cover on classic pk shell (from sr2 16ohm) and it fits nicely! So large style cover seem to be compatible with both types pk shells



Does that shell have the two overhanging lips on the left and right side to catch/hold the older style covers? If so I wonder if they'd cause tuning issues due to excessive venting. Not that you couldn't sand them off.





Zoomed in, hopefully clear enough you can see what I am talking about.


----------



## robar (Aug 25, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Definitely. I have had a few items from March/April which disappeared in shipping. Also had one show up 4 months later.
> 
> About 2 years ago I had one item show up after 6 months. You never know lol.
> 
> ...


@assassin10000 It has some sort of lip but not like on your pic, these are 3 tiny extra edges outwards. I only tried on a faulty, slightly cracked b40 speaker so I don't have a working build. The connection is kind of loose but I dont know if its only because of the cracked cover. But the cover stays in place at least, thats more that I can tell about many shells I bought for 15.4mm lol


----------



## willyboyaudio (Aug 24, 2020)

Plicco said:


> Hello everyone,
> I'm a new used passionate about DIY in many fields and recently I've been trying to learn something about making my own audio stuff, both to save money and improve the quality of my gears, but also of course to have fun and learn.
> [...]
> Of course I would appreciate every suggestion, I went back to page maybe 120 but reading everything is overwhelming, so I hope you won't mind if I asked for advice!
> Thank you very much and compliments for your works, I've seen some pretty stunning earbuds on these pages!!! 😱 😂


Warm welcome to you! This is one of the nicest, most friendly thread among many audio forums I've joined  
Enjoy your stay and enjoy your DIY earbuds journey.



robar said:


> From the cheap 15.4mm ones, I can recommend these
> 
> 19-21 "heavy bass" - for me this is a pretty airy, slightly cold driver, from my collection this has the best extension, detail and balance
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html
> ...



Agreed, and thank you @robar for being helpful as always.
The 64 Ohm titanium with blue dot, is it this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000193238068.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.16.2e9518cf0NRKGk
Well noted on your impression.
P.S. Did you see what I did there, I repeated a couple of times "64 Ohm titanium with blue dot" that way I hope we can search for impressions scattered in this thread easier hahaha.




robar said:


> You're welcome, choose what you prefer, for the price all of these are great
> 
> Btw, there are some other options out there under 6usd that we haven't explored yet, like there are two 32ohm titaniums (purple dot and a cheap one at jietu), different variations of the 19-21 (balanced, clear) etc. I hope someone will try those out sometime so I don't have to be the lab rat again haha. I hope the new large style 14.8mm speaker from cklewis will arrive to me someday, so I can review it for you all


I have the 32 Ohm titanium with purple (more like lavender/pinkish) dot in local market, like the photo below. It is also available in plastic cover. Another one is the 64 Ohm titanium with red dot and light blue blob, I wonder if you guys have any experience with these?


----------



## Themilkman46290

Plicco said:


> Hello everyone,
> I'm a new used passionate about DIY in many fields and recently I've been trying to learn something about making my own audio stuff, both to save money and improve the quality of my gears, but also of course to have fun and learn.
> 
> My first project would be a pair of earbuds, because I find IEM really uncomfortable for my ears unfortunately, so I use them only when I want to have a full immersion listening session but not in everyday life, which means I often end up listening to music with crappy cheap buds with bad cables.
> ...


Well, I would try the 19-21 that others mention, but from what you say your ideal signature is, I would recommend the 120 ohm beryllium from jietu store, they have very well extended highs, clean mids and can be easily tuned to give a cold, clean, crispy sound, or you can give it a deep bassy tuning. Either way, the 120 ohm had some of the better highs in my collection, that's why I bought 2 pairs..


----------



## Plicco

Themilkman46290 said:


> Well, I would try the 19-21 that others mention, but from what you say your ideal signature is, I would recommend the 120 ohm beryllium from jietu store, they have very well extended highs, clean mids and can be easily tuned to give a cold, clean, crispy sound, or you can give it a deep bassy tuning. Either way, the 120 ohm had some of the better highs in my collection, that's why I bought 2 pairs..



This is a good thing to know because I was about to buy, among other things, the beryllium drivers from NSC but they disappeared from my cart so probably they are sold out, which is frustrating because I was about to place my order! 😭


----------



## furyossa (Aug 25, 2020)

robar said:


> @furyossa do you think b7000 glue is good for fixing loose covers to shells? I have like 5-6 pair of shells that are supposed to be 15.4 but in fact they cant even keep on the speakers. I really want to utilize them (tape method is unstable for me). Two pairs of wooden shells, one set of h180 style, 2 set of new plastic fron nsc, several random salvaged one also.. I could only find b7000 for cheap in EU ebay, this is why I'm asking.


It's not that strong like RY glue  But for one pair of metallic shells, I had to use heat to separate the driver.  Use it on few spots only.
This glue is mostly used when repairing mobile phones so, in my opinion, it is a great solution, and I don't believe that anything is much different from 8000.
It creates an elastic bond and the remains can be easily removed from the surface


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Definitely. I have had a few items from March/April which disappeared in shipping. Also had one show up 4 months later.
> 
> About 2 years ago I had one item show up after 6 months. You never know lol.
> 
> ...


I have 10 pairs of this type of shell that have the same problem but the lip is set on all sides not just left and right. I couldn't attach MX500 cover


----------



## Plicco (Aug 25, 2020)

Apparently I can't find beryllium 130ohm speaker anywhere anymore, they were available until yesterday, I asked nsc if they will restock but communication with them is pretty weird and unreliable.
Do you know any other good driver around the 15$ mark or I should just wait, maybe even for the 150ohm red film?
Probably I'll just go ahead and place my order for the cheaper driver for now, but I wanted to save shipping costs.

Anyone has tried these drivers? 

€ 12,13  30%OFF | 15.4MM 64 Ohm Composited Titanium Headphone Drivers Flat Headphone DIY for MX500 Speaker Unit 120dB/W
https://a.aliexpress.com/_BTFgGq


----------



## robar (Aug 25, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> The 64 Ohm titanium with blue dot, is it this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000193238068.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.16.2e9518cf0NRKGk
> P.S. Did you see what I did there, I repeated a couple of times "64 Ohm titanium with blue dot" that way I hope we can search for impressions scattered in this thread easier hahaha.
> I have the 32 Ohm titanium with purple (more like lavender/pinkish) dot in local market, like the photo below. It is also available in plastic cover. Another one is the 64 Ohm titanium with red dot and light blue blob, I wonder if you guys have any experience with these?


Nice idea to keyword the posts! 
I'm not familar with the drivers on the pic, they look similar to emx500 by the layout so maybe these are older models.  But still quite interesting, I haven't seen these aliexpress.

Yes that's the 64ohm blue titanium I spoke about, but you can get it for 1/3rd of the price at nsc store. I like it, very deep smooth darkish sound, ideal upgrade from vido, rosemary etc. Needs good power and brighter dac though, I enjoy it with my es9018k2m but it can sound too soft dull with darker/generic sources. A bit fragile based on the feedback, I also had a semi-faulty one in the first order (but nsc sent me a replacement for free)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000220039317.html

I wrote about these titanium 32ohms:
purple dot 15.4mm titanium 32ohm
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000741710087.html

cheap jietu "three frequency"
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001296003822.html

and here's a more expensive new model, the 68ohm vocal
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001290893953.htm



furyossa said:


> It's not that strong like RY glue  But for one pair of metallic shells, I had to use heat to separate the driver.  Use it on few spots only.
> This glue is mostly used when repairing mobile phones so, in my opinion, it is a great solution, and I don't believe that anything is much different from 8000.
> It creates an elastic bond and the remains can be easily removed from the surface


Thanks I'll buy one probably. The problem with a few spot only is that many of these shells have a large gap, so if I only glue it partially than it will be unstable and with lot of uncontrollable venting :/ Not sure what to do with these honestly.


furyossa said:


> I have 10 pairs of this type of shell that have the same problem but the lip is set on all sides not just left and right. I couldn't attach MX500 cover


I also had a ry4c shell which I salvaged, it's hard to put on a cover but it's doable. Maybe you can also sand down the lips. Venting is pretty lackluster with those shells also, need to drill more vents and the inner layout is weird.


Plicco said:


> Apparently I can't find beryllium 130ohm speaker anywhere anymore, they were available until yesterday, I asked nsc if they will restock but communication with them is pretty weird and unreliable.
> Do you know any other good driver around the 15$ mark or I should just wait, maybe even for the 150ohm red film?
> Probably I'll just go ahead and place my order for the cheaper driver for now, but I wanted to save shipping costs.


Interesting, the 130ohm did disappear from everywhere except for the greedy stores with double price. There are a lot speakers in the 5-20usd range that you can try but I personally don't have experience with them. Some notable ones are the N52 300ohm, the 400ohm graphene, a couple of 14.8mm ones, and for cheaper there are the titaniums (same layout as 19-21)


----------



## 730user (Aug 25, 2020)

del


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Thanks I'll buy one probably. The problem with a few spot only is that many of these shells have a large gap, so if I only glue it partially than it will be unstable and with lot of uncontrollable venting :/ Not sure what to do with these honestly.


In that case you can glue it all around but for MX500 only on the one or two side (for sleeping buds or gift buds)


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Aug 25, 2020)

Plicco said:


> Apparently I can't find beryllium 130ohm speaker anywhere anymore, they were available until yesterday, I asked nsc if they will restock but communication with them is pretty weird and unreliable.
> Do you know any other good driver around the 15$ mark or I should just wait, maybe even for the 150ohm red film?
> Probably I'll just go ahead and place my order for the cheaper driver for now, but I wanted to save shipping costs.
> 
> ...


Yes, they are very very good, almost as good as the 130ohm, a bit less sub bass and a tiny bit less detailed


----------



## robar (Aug 25, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yes, they are very very good, almost as good as the 130ohm, a bit less sub bass and a tiny bit less detailed


Oh I completely forgot about this driver, I didn't remember any reviews about it. And it's also available in steel mesh cover. Looks like from the same family as n50,n52 32ohm drivers. Could you compare it to other sub 15usd drivers that you have? Your comment made me curious about these. I'm torn between buying one 10-12usd driver that is new to me (like this, or n52 300ohm etc), or a set of 5 cheaper ones for the same amount, weird situation I know .


----------



## willyboyaudio

robar said:


> Oh I completely forgot about this driver, I didn't remember any reviews about it. And it's also available in steel mesh cover. Looks like from the same family as n50,n52 32ohm drivers. Could you compare it to other sub 15usd drivers that you have? Your comment made me curious about these. I'm torn between buying one 10-12usd driver that is new to me (like this, or n52 300ohm etc), or a set of 5 cheaper ones for the same amount, weird situation I know .


Not weird at all! I’m also in the same situation, wanted to check out the N52 300 Ohm. Hoping to hear more from @Themilkman46290 
Thanks guys!


----------



## Plicco

@robar is this the 300 ohm one you're talking about?
https://a.aliexpress.com/_B18hIa

I also found this 150ohm one that seems pretty interesting and seems different from the ones in other stores, if I'm not mistakes because I'm making a bit of confusion between all the drivers, sometimes not realising that two items in different shops are actually the same! 😁 

https://a.aliexpress.com/_BUxzHC


----------



## robar (Aug 25, 2020)

Plicco said:


> @robar is this the 300 ohm one you're talking about?
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_B18hIa
> 
> I also found this 150ohm one that seems pretty interesting and seems different from the ones in other stores, if I'm not mistakes because I'm making a bit of confusion between all the drivers, sometimes not realising that two items in different shops are actually the same! 😁
> ...


To be honest I don't know, cklewis store always put the wrong pictures in the gallery lol. If you ask for a picture via message and compare the stats with another store listing than maybe you can figure it out. By the way I seen the white 300ohm n52 in other stores as well, selling for a bit more than the black, I have no idea why. The cheapest place I could find is ghxamp store, they sell the 300ohm for 10usd and they have a 1usd coupon as well.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001103895371.html


The blue 150ohm is a driver that I may or may not know, because I have a Faaeal Rosemary and the driver in it looks the same, but I can't tell for sure it's that driver. It  certainly should be a good driver, but I'm not sure if it's worth 2.5x price compared to the cheap 32ohm ones, but if you try it let us know!. My Rosemary is  hard to drive, and the sound is worse than my 19-21 or 64ohm titanium builds. But again, it's not sure that rosemary has exactly the same driver. I was thinking about trying that, but I'm more comfortable with buying 2 pairs of cheap new low impedance drivers than an older model that may be similar or inferior quality plus hard to drive. There is also a white glue "vocal" version which is supposed to be midcentric, maybe that is something that you confuse it with. This is why I'm hesitant to try the 300ohm as well, it looks like a higher impedance version of this 150ohm, so I'm not sure if it would be an upgrade over the cheap ones, and I don't want to pay 3x price for a sidegrade  I guess someone has to try and compare..


----------



## Themilkman46290

robar said:


> To be honest I don't know, cklewis store always put the wrong pictures in the gallery lol. If you ask for a picture via message and compare the stats with another store listing than maybe you can figure it out. By the way I seen the white 300ohm n52 in other stores as well, selling for a bit more than the black, I have no idea why. The cheapest place I could find is ghxamp store, they sell the 300ohm for 10usd and they have a 1usd coupon as well.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001103895371.html
> 
> 
> The blue 150ohm is a driver that I may or may not know, because I have a Faaeal Rosemary and the driver in it looks the same, but I can't tell for sure it's that driver. It  certainly should be a good driver, but I'm not sure if it's worth 2.5x price compared to the cheap 32ohm ones, but if you try it let us know!. My Rosemary is  hard to drive, and the sound is worse than my 19-21 or 64ohm titanium builds. But again, it's not sure that rosemary has exactly the same driver. I was thinking about trying that, but I'm more comfortable with buying 2 pairs of cheap new low impedance drivers than an older model that may be similar or inferior quality plus hard to drive. There is also a white glue "vocal" version which is supposed to be midcentric, maybe that is something that you confuse it with. This is why I'm hesitant to try the 300ohm as well, it looks like a higher impedance version of this 150ohm, so I'm not sure if it would be an upgrade over the cheap ones, and I don't want to pay 3x price for a sidegrade  I guess someone has to try and compare..



I have not tried the n52 300ohm because I was told by people on this thread that it wasn't worth it, I think I will get it after a month or 2. 

I have asked sellers, why the black is cheaper then the white, I was told the black is using 12 u diaphragm while the white uses 9 u diaphragms 
So in theory it should have better control

But I was told that the 150ohm and 300ohm are not good.


----------



## robar

Themilkman46290 said:


> I have not tried the n52 300ohm because I was told by people on this thread that it wasn't worth it, I think I will get it after a month or 2.
> 
> I have asked sellers, why the black is cheaper then the white, I was told the black is using 12 u diaphragm while the white uses 9 u diaphragms
> So in theory it should have better control
> ...


Thanks for the insights, then I'll skip those, makes my life easier lol.  I wishlisted the 64ohm composite, the 400ohm graphene and the 68ohm vocal 15.4mm speakers from the 10-20usd range.  (also the openheart buds that could make a nice starting point for mmcx builds)

I'll probably just try some cheap stuff, because I also want to make a couple of gifts. 5 pairs of various 19-21 speakers are sold for 12usd, maybe I try the balanced steel mesh version, or the cheap titanium at jietu. I made coupons for myself with the coupon pals game, you should do the same  Use two fingers to reach the highest bar lol


----------



## Plicco

OK I almost set my mind up to buy the titanium composite after what you told me about the 150 and 300 ohm driver, the blue dot titanium seems nice but not for my tastes, so the choice it's easier. 
I'm just going to ask you another few opinions out of curiosity, I've seen a couple drivers that I don't think I've even seen mentioned here, so I was wondering if they're new and untested or simply bad. 
One is the pink diaphragm driver on chitty https://a.aliexpress.com/_BPEPI2

And the other is this... How to call it? Blue dot azure film transparent silicon? 
It caught my eye because of the more amount of markings on the diaphragm 
https://a.aliexpress.com/_B05CzG


----------



## robar

Plicco said:


> OK I almost set my mind up to buy the titanium composite after what you told me about the 150 and 300 ohm driver, the blue dot titanium seems nice but not for my tastes, so the choice it's easier.
> I'm just going to ask you another few opinions out of curiosity, I've seen a couple drivers that I don't think I've even seen mentioned here, so I was wondering if they're new and untested or simply bad.
> One is the pink diaphragm driver on chitty https://a.aliexpress.com/_BPEPI2
> 
> ...


I'm not familiar with them. Chitty sells a lot of obscure and discontinued drivers, sometimes salvaged from earbuds, also the store is quite a bit overpriced. Maybe others can help, I'm hesitant to recommend trying anything random from there.


----------



## willyboyaudio (Aug 25, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yes, they are very very good, almost as good as the 130ohm, a bit less sub bass and a tiny bit less detailed


Do you think this is the same driver?
Similarities:
- 64 Ohm
- White blob
- Red dot
- Foam covering the holes
- Similar PCB traces
- Same pattern on the face, which is slightly different than the pattern on the 19-21 driver, for example.
These are salvaged from VE Monk+


----------



## robar (Aug 25, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> Do you think this is the same driver?
> Similarities:
> - 64 Ohm
> - White blob
> ...


There is also a cheap 64ohm which is considered to be not so good which looks the same, about 4usd sold in many stores check it out. I guess if the monk had that titanium driver than it would cost much more and would be advertised like crazy that its titanium 

@Themilkman46290 did you compare the 32ohm n52 with the ti composite by the way? They do look related, I wonder how similar they are


----------



## willyboyaudio

robar said:


> Thanks for the insights, then I'll skip those, makes my life easier lol.  I wishlisted the 64ohm composite, the 400ohm graphene and the 68ohm vocal 15.4mm speakers from the 10-20usd range.  (also the openheart buds that could make a nice starting point for mmcx builds)
> 
> I'll probably just try some cheap stuff, because I also want to make a couple of gifts. 5 pairs of various 19-21 speakers are sold for 12usd, maybe I try the balanced steel mesh version, or the cheap titanium at jietu. I made coupons for myself with the coupon pals game, you should do the same  Use two fingers to reach the highest bar lol



Cheap drivers make great giftbuds! 
I’ve made two of these and gifted them to friends. So far, I’ve found that the top of the list for most people are “bass” and “mic” hehehe..


----------



## willyboyaudio

robar said:


> There is also a cheap 64ohm which is considered to be not so good which looks the same, about 4usd sold in many stores check it out. I guess if the monk had that titanium driver than it would cost much more and would be advertised like crazy that its titanium
> 
> @Themilkman46290 did you compare the 32ohm n52 with the ti composite by the way? They do look related, I wonder how similar they are


Thank you my friend. With all this collective knowledge, I'm really thinking we should create a DIY earbuds wiki. Like photos and specs of drivers, brief impressions, etc etc.
What you said makes a perfect sense, sorry I got carried away with my detective work. A local shop has many drivers, and I much prefer buying from them than waiting 2 months from Ali, hence the detective work to cross-reference items.


----------



## robar

willyboyaudio said:


> Thank you my friend. With all this collective knowledge, I'm really thinking we should create a DIY earbuds wiki. Like photos and specs of drivers, brief impressions, etc etc.
> What you said makes a perfect sense, sorry I got carried away with my detective work. A local shop has many drivers, and I much prefer buying from them than waiting 2 months from Ali, hence the detective work to cross-reference items.


That's a good idea, maybe even a google sheet or doc could work 
Earbud drivers are very confusing but that's part of the fun lol. I sometimes search in shoppee and EA fb group for more info. 


willyboyaudio said:


> Cheap drivers make great giftbuds!
> I’ve made two of these and gifted them to friends. So far, I’ve found that the top of the list for most people are “bass” and “mic” hehehe..


Nice build! What driver did you put into it? The blue shell looks nice, is this the standard one or the less common varnished one (sold at nsc for example)?
I gifted two buds so far (not formally, more like spontaneausly) I built a bud for my mother with n52 32ohm speaker + standard mx500 (custom foam setup) + fengru tc200 cable and one for my brother with emx500 + tc200 shell. Both sounded punchy and fun, they don't really care about sound but seemed to like zhe buds


----------



## Themilkman46290

robar said:


> Oh I completely forgot about this driver, I didn't remember any reviews about it. And it's also available in steel mesh cover. Looks like from the same family as n50,n52 32ohm drivers. Could you compare it to other sub 15usd drivers that you have? Your comment made me curious about these. I'm torn between buying one 10-12usd driver that is new to me (like this, or n52 300ohm etc), or a set of 5 cheaper ones for the same amount, weird situation I know .


Well, I actually have the n52 32ohm bass and compared to the 64ohm ti composite, I tuned them similar, and in my tuning the n52 32ohm has less sub bass, more mid bass, strong vocals, smoother highs, it's very good for acoustic music


----------



## willyboyaudio

robar said:


> That's a good idea, maybe even a google sheet or doc could work
> Earbud drivers are very confusing but that's part of the fun lol. I sometimes search in shoppee and EA fb group for more info.
> 
> Nice build! What driver did you put into it? The blue shell looks nice, is this the standard one or the less common varnished one (sold at nsc for example)?
> I gifted two buds so far (not formally, more like spontaneausly) I built a bud for my mother with n52 32ohm speaker + standard mx500 (custom foam setup) + fengru tc200 cable and one for my brother with emx500 + tc200 shell. Both sounded punchy and fun, they don't really care about sound but seemed to like zhe buds


I put a driver from my local seller, it's called "Warm Bass" driver. 
The blue shell, if I remember correctly the inside is black, so it must be painted. 
So what new driver are you getting, @robar?


----------



## robar (Aug 27, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> I put a driver from my local seller, it's called "Warm Bass" driver.
> The blue shell, if I remember correctly the inside is black, so it must be painted.
> So what new driver are you getting, @robar?


I'm not sure yet, as I found about the xiaomi mi headphones 2 yesterday, which is about 35usd now with coupons, and it's the nice smallish foldable design I was looking for a long time  (metal build, graphene drivers, bass radiator, replacable cables, recommended on headfi, original price is 3x etc lol) I'm not sure if I buy that or some cheap speakers, I haven't made up my mind yet. But I don't think I'll buy both (I need to hit at least 8-10usd to get tracked shipping with cheap stuff and that would be too much with the headphones) Maybe if I get some money back from orders that didn't arrive, but I'm losing hope with that.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000861493570.html

If I decide to buy earbud stuff than I'll probably buy either a 5 set mx500 shell + N50 + 32ohm titanium from jietu, or buy a 5 set of 19-21 speakers with mixed covers from nsc. I don't want to risk more expensive stuff and this way I can fill up my remaining shells and possibly give away stuff.


----------



## captione (Aug 28, 2020)

Those steel mesh drivers that @robar mentioned are really freaking good ootb. I kinda used it on my wood shell but I changed the shell to my transparent one and replaced the faceplate to a transparent one. Real good if you want a warm bassy driver. 👍

Also I'd probably suggest the big solder variants, especially the ones with the green dot, they're pretty sweet and balanced sounding ootb. I also tried the 64ohm black dot titanium plated variant that @robar mentioned but he isn't far off from the description, although it's a big improvement in terms of transients and has a more sparkle upfront presentation, ootb. You really can't go wrong from what I mentioned unless you're finding a different signature.

Edit: ootb, well without any tweakings, just putting it in a shell with the horseshoe foam on.


----------



## robar

captione said:


> Those steel mesh drivers that @robar mentioned are really freaking good ootb. I kinda used it on my wood shell but I changed the shell to my transparent one and replaced the faceplate to a transparent one. Real good if you want a warm bassy driver. 👍
> 
> Also I'd probably suggest the big solder variants, especially the ones with the green dot, they're pretty sweet and balanced sounding ootb. I also tried the 64ohm black dot titanium plated variant that @robar mentioned but he isn't far off from the description, although it's a big improvement in terms of transients and has a more sparkle upfront presentation, ootb. You really can't go wrong from what I mentioned unless you're finding a different signature.
> 
> Edit: ootb, well without any tweakings, just putting it in a shell with the horseshoe foam on.


I'm happy you like those, and thanks for the 19-21 green dot rec, I was thinking about trying those.  By the steel mesh do you think about the red rim N50 drivers? Yes they are really fun warm smooth v shaped character when put into a regular mx500 shell. (If you remove the installed foam from the speaker and put a simple horseshoe on the shell than it becomes tighter and deeper with similar signature)


----------



## captione

robar said:


> By the steel mesh do you think about the red rim N50 drivers? Yes they are really fun warm smooth v shaped character when put into a regular mx500 shell. (If you remove the installed foam from the speaker and put a simple horseshoe on the shell than it becomes tighter and deeper with similar signature)


Yep, meant those. I'm gonna try your suggestion next time I buy another pair of those N50 drivers + plus the blue epoxy 32ohm and the 64ohm variant that the VE Monk uses. I actually call em the "VE Monk type drivers" rather N50 so I got confused a bit 😆 

I had alot of experience built up from messing around VE Monks and Lites drivers so it'll be fun exploring those other driver variants. Plus they're insanely cheap here, can't really resist to put em all in my plans.


----------



## robar

captione said:


> Yep, meant those. I'm gonna try your suggestion next time I buy another pair of those N50 drivers + plus the blue epoxy 32ohm and the 64ohm variant that the VE Monk uses. I actually call em the "VE Monk type drivers" rather N50 so I got confused a bit 😆
> 
> I had alot of experience built up from messing around VE Monks and Lites drivers so it'll be fun exploring those other driver variants. Plus they're insanely cheap here, can't really resist to put em all in my plans.


Sweet! I only call the red rim steel mesh N50 because the NSC store description says it has N50 magnet  The blue glued plastic cover variant has N52 according to them. I have no idea what the 64ohm variant has though.


----------



## captione

robar said:


> Sweet! I only call the red rim steel mesh N50 because the NSC store description says it has N50 magnet  The blue glued plastic cover variant has N52 according to them. I have no idea what the 64ohm variant has though.



I usually judge em on how the PCB and solder points look, and it's probably because the sellers here on shopee barely or sparsely show any accurate info on the specs so I had to check aliex listings sometimes. Surprisingly enough the N52 blue ones are the cheapest here compared to the other variants lol


----------



## robar (Aug 28, 2020)

captione said:


> I usually judge em on how the PCB and solder points look, and it's probably because the sellers here on shopee barely or sparsely show any accurate info on the specs so I had to check aliex listings sometimes. Surprisingly enough the N52 blue ones are the cheapest here compared to the other variants lol


They are the cheapest ones on ali too. I personally prefer the N50, very similar to N52 but more natural and balanced  N52 is a bit brighter and thinner for my ears. If you have a chance to compare them also side by side, let us know what you think!


----------



## assassin10000

I came up with a way that works better than my molded ear. Just requires some tubing, e6000 glue and hot glue.


Various vinyl tubing and one latex for the connection to the mic.



Staggered them to make a 'bowl' like area. Filled in with e6000 glue. Still wet in this picture and needed a second layer.



Cut the largest diameter tubing into a 3 prong claw or crown shape. Roughed up the inside of the tubing with a razor blade at the tips (for better adhesion) and applied hot glue.



The crown or claw can slide up and down the inner core to change fit depending on earbud shape. The arms flex and fold so earbuds can be inserted, positioned and removed relatively easily. I'm able to take repeatable measurements fairly easily, still some finickiness but not bad at all. 



Here's some comparisons of the two different couplers I made. It is easier to get repeat results with the claw/crown style. It also seems to catch upper mids & especially treble better.

These are the measurements that seem mostly the same. There were several that were massively different (mostly in the bass & lower mids) depending on fit until I figured out what positions worked best.


----------



## robar

assassin10000 said:


> I came up with a way that works better than my molded ear. Just requires some tubing, e6000 glue and hot glue.
> 
> 
> Various vinyl tubing and one latex for the connection to the mic.
> ...


Amazing project! Do you have other popular budget earbuds? I'd be interested in comparing graphs if we have a common model


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> Amazing project! Do you have other popular budget earbuds? I'd be interested in comparing graphs if we have a common model



Just a clear RY4S and the ME80.



Which are actually sold and about to be shipped. But I measured them a few days ago. Both with full foams.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 28, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Just a clear RY4S and the ME80.
> 
> 
> 
> Which are actually sold and about to be shipped. But I measured them a few days ago. Both with full foams.



I am interresting in the mesurement graph of your RedFilm DIY PK1 earbuds.
I want to see the graph displayed together with RY4S and ME80.

Below is the FR graph of the original Yuin PK1 (PK2) which I picked up on the web.


----------



## assassin10000

jogawag said:


> I am interresting in the mesurement graph of your RedFilm DIY PK1 earbuds.
> I want to see the graph displayed together with RY4S and ME80.
> 
> Below is the FR graph of the original Yuin PK1 (PK2) which I picked up on the web.
> ...



I only have one good driver of the 150Ω diy pk1 redfilm at the moment. I'll swap it onto a shell and get a measurement though.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 18, 2020)

Finally had a listen to those 14.8mm 120Ω beryllium drivers.

Impressions w/foam covers: they are overly warm and a bit too mid-centric. The highs are there but overshadowed. Bass is present but rolls off towards sub-bass (as expected).

Impressions w/o foams: warm, mid-centric but the highs are not as overshadowed. Bass is there but even lighter and will be highly fit dependant.



Of my other buds, they are most similar sounding to the N55 64Ω and Original Yuin PK2. N55 is a little less warm and the PK2 has slightly more treble.

If you have a noisy source (higher output impedance or excessive gain over BT, like the BT20S) these would work well with it.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> I came up with a way that works better than my molded ear. Just requires some tubing, e6000 glue and hot glue.
> 
> 
> Various vinyl tubing and one latex for the connection to the mic.
> ...


Amazing solution for a coupler.  Really nice invention.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Finally had a listen to those 14.8mm 120Ω beryllium drivers.
> 
> Impressions w/foam: they are overly warm and a bit too mid-centric. The highs are there but overshadowed. Bass is present but rolls off towards sub-bass (as expected).
> 
> ...


So PK1 150ohm "red-film" is still the best DIY 14.8mm?


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> So PK1 150ohm "red-film" is still the best DIY 14.8mm?



I'd say yes.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> I'd say yes.


The reason why is an expensive driver.   Even after 3-4 years it still "holds the crown" 
Maybe next year we will see some DIY DLC driver as a new competitor   😉


----------



## assassin10000

@jogawag 




Still not sure what is up with the resonance at 2.2k-2.4k as I haven't finished my coupler setup 100% yet.


----------



## jogawag (Aug 30, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> @jogawag
> 
> 
> 
> Still not sure what is up with the resonance at 2.2k-2.4k as I haven't finished my coupler setup 100% yet.



Thanks, @assassin10000.

I also had PK1 (Red Film) earbuds before. PK1(RedFilm) has a beautiful treble, but the bass under 100Hz is weak.

After all the Docomo driver with the best sound balance is the best DIY 14.8mm for me. It is famous that Docomo driver is used in Shozy Cygnus and Shozy BK.
Below is the FR graph displaying Docomo earbuds and Shozy Cygnus and DIY SR, I picked up the graph on the Russian web site. (Please don't see over 20KHz part.)


>



However, most of my earbuds/IEMs (DIY SR2, DIY PK1(RedFilm), Shozy Cygnus, Shozy BK, Mohito, MX985, TM9, Dragon2+, K3003, IE800, 10Pro, etc.) other than the Docomo earbuds and Smabat ST10 I had were swept away by the flood damage due to the collapse of the river embankment nearby at 2019  autumn...

By the way, @assassin10000 you have SR2 earbuds and you like them. I want to ask you to add SR2 to the graph and I want to see displayed together with PK1(RedFilm).


----------



## assassin10000

@jogawag 


Just an FYI, the PK2, ME80 & RY4S are gone so I won't be able to do anymore direct comparisons to them. As I will be changing to a slightly different coupler.


___________________________



Spent this afternoon into this evening making and testing a bunch of different versions of my DIY earbud coupler. I was trying to get as close to my DIY ear mold as I could. 

As you can see, there were a few iterations:




All said and done, it looks like I've got something fairly close. This graph shows my DIY ear, 1st version of the crown or claw style coupler and the last one I tested.


----------



## subwoof3r

Hi there! long time no see, I'm still enjoying a lot my new hobby: freestyle drone fpv  hope you guys are well since?
Is there anything better than our best favorite drivers 19-21kHz since @robar ?
I'm still amazed by my mod, they are so far the best earbuds I listened since so many years now.
All my other earbuds takes dust. Each day at work, coupled with my ES100, it's a pure joy.
Sometimes this earbuds DIY hobby miss me but I have so much to do with my drones now that I don't have enough time to go back to earbuds DIY for now 
Cheers' everybody, keep safe!


----------



## robar (Aug 31, 2020)

subwoof3r said:


> Hi there! long time no see, I'm still enjoying a lot my new hobby: freestyle drone fpv  hope you guys are well since?
> Is there anything better than our best favorite drivers 19-21kHz since @robar ?
> I'm still amazed by my mod, they are so far the best earbuds I listened since so many years now.
> All my other earbuds takes dust. Each day at work, coupled with my ES100, it's a pure joy.
> ...


Hi there, I'm happy to hear from you  I haven't tried any new drivers since then, as small packages just don't arrive (just got refund for a 4 months old untracked package - props to NSC store again for the support) and shipping costs got high in most cases. I don't want to invest in pricier drivers at the moment, it feels like gambling for me, shipping is risky and possible sound improvement is small. I still have a lot of shells that are unusable without glue, so I want to deal with those first, I regret that I bought them :/ Anyways, I would be interested in the titanium composite 64ohm, the 400ohm graphene and other variations of the 19-21 family, but I doubt that the extra investment would be justified by their SQ. I hope new models will come out in autumn and shipping gets a bit better. 

I'm still slowly tweaking some of my builds, will post soon.  My most notable audio buy recently: I've just ordered the Xiaomi Mi 2 headphones for situations where I need more isolation, it has sturdy foldable design, large graphene drivers, good reviews from head-fi, costs about 38usd. Also I plan to mod some of my older headphones as a side project


----------



## assassin10000

@robar were you ever able to take those comparison measurements of the different tuning paper/foam covering the holes?

Since measurements have been on my mind recently lol.


______________________


Did a couple more revisions of my earbud coupler. I don't know if I can make it any better from here. A new set of jaws with a slightly lower height on the hot glue pads, as well as slightly longer base. That and made neater 'correct' length tubes instead of various staggered ones.

Here's v.17 (with a few prior ones and extra pieces).





Also since I was taking measurements (and I was curious) I did a comparison of full, donut and offset donut foams. To see if there was a measurable difference. 

Neat how the offset version actually balances between the two.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 3, 2020)

Forgot to post these:

The 120Ω beryllium driver covers were swapped from the 16.7mm plastic ones to the smaller O.D. stainless ones.


Measurements on 1st version coupler:


Warm, mid-centric and somewhat similar to the original Yuin PK2, except with less treble. This is without additional tuning or EQ.


----------



## robar

assassin10000 said:


> @robar were you ever able to take those comparison measurements of the different tuning paper/foam covering the holes?
> 
> Since measurements have been on my mind recently lol.
> 
> ...


Sorry for the late reply, I'll get back to you in the close future! I plan to tweak some of my builds with that technique, will make some measurements along the way


----------



## assassin10000

Spent some time tuning the the 120Ω beryllium drivers. With tuning and EQ applied they are a completely different animal. 

Not completely done experimenting with tuning as I don't have all the different tuning cotton/foam thicknesses to play with.


----------



## DR650SE

Can anyone help guide me? I realize this is a DIY earbuds thread and think this fits. 

I have Westone W40 IEMs. The shell on the left ear cracked open. Then that happened, one of the wires broke. I'm in the midst of trying to repair them.  I replaced the ground and signal wire with enameled copper wire.  However I must be missing a jumper wire or something, because I don't seem to have any high end.  When I test it out, it sounds different from the right ear bud which is working.   I believe I'm missing the high end.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Themilkman46290

DR650SE said:


> Can anyone help guide me? I realize this is a DIY earbuds thread and think this fits.
> 
> I have Westone W40 IEMs. The shell on the left ear cracked open. Then that happened, one of the wires broke. I'm in the midst of trying to repair them.  I replaced the ground and signal wire with enameled copper wire.  However I must be missing a jumper wire or something, because I don't seem to have any high end.  When I test it out, it sounds different from the right ear bud which is working.   I believe I'm missing the high end.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


This is an EARBUD thread, not an Inner Ear Monitor  thread, what do you think I.E.M. Stands for? And why do so Manny people think earbuds and iems are the same thing, one goes in your ear, that's what the I in iem stands for, it's an abbreviation, iem, I for inner, e is for ear, m is for monitor. So I would check maybe the diy iems thread because this thread is for ear buds (earbuds is on the outside of your ear, not in your ear, I understand iems ar marketed by manufacturers as earbuds but they are not the same thing)


----------



## furyossa

Here you can find also earbuds with smaller dynamic drivers (6-12mm) which are I.E.B. (In-Ear Buds). We discuss here mainly about dynamic drivers.
BA's are not so popular on this thread


----------



## Slater

furyossa said:


> Here you can find also earbuds with smaller dynamic drivers (6-12mm) which are I.E.B. (In-Ear Buds). We discuss here mainly about dynamic drivers.
> BA's are not so popular on this thread



Interesting - do you have any examples of earbuds that use small drivers (6mm-8mm)?


----------



## furyossa

Slater said:


> Interesting - do you have any examples of earbuds that use small drivers (6mm-8mm)?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15668959
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15670267


----------



## Slater

furyossa said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15668959
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15670267



Wait, I thought you were talking about 6mm earBUDS, not 6mm IEMs.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood.


----------



## edoin

Has anyone able to try the 68ohms "vocal" driver? I'm rocking the 130ohms Be driver and these sound great! I was able to get the last pair from a seller that said the factory that produces the driver is currently closed as they don't have the materials to process them anymore.


----------



## captione

edoin said:


> Has anyone able to try the 68ohms "vocal" driver? I'm rocking the 130ohms Be driver and these sound great! I was able to get the last pair from a seller that said the factory that produces the driver is currently closed as they don't have the materials to process them anymore.


I'm planning to buy one, and I was also planning to buy those 130ohm be drivers that suddenly sold out on shopee. That sucks. 
Might do a build once I got enough extra budget since there's ALOT of cheap titanium plated drivers that I have to try, and the dual driver 15.4mm one too.


----------



## edoin

looking forward for your impressions


----------



## robar

I've just received the new large style 14.8mm speakers from cklewis, will test them in the close future  They look similar to the B40 drivers but there are some major differences. The new pair has twice as much and also larger slits on the metal base and the whole thing sits much deeper in the cover. Also, the speakers appear to be much more magnetic than the b40. The plastic cover itself is identical. I'm hopeful that the sound will be better as well. It fits the b40 shell perfectly just I have to find tuning material because I'm short of tuning rectangles 

On the left: cklewis pair, on the right: B40 driver after removing the white horseshoe and some excess glue


----------



## captione

robar said:


> I've just received the new large style 14.8mm speakers from cklewis, will test them in the close future  They look similar to the B40 drivers but there are some major differences. The new pair has twice as much and also larger slits on the metal base and the whole thing sits much deeper in the cover. Also, the speakers appear to be much more magnetic than the b40. The plastic cover itself is identical. I'm hopeful that the sound will be better as well. It fits the b40 shell perfectly just I have to find tuning material because I'm short of tuning rectangles
> 
> On the left: cklewis pair, on the right: B40 driver after removing the white horseshoe and some excess glue


Looking forward to your impressions, I am planning to build one with those drivers


----------



## assassin10000

Finally got a replacement pair of those 14.8mm DIY PK1 150Ω redfilm drivers. Working on a new pair of modded shells for them as I re-used the old ones for the 64Ω N55 drivers when they showed up.


In the meantime I've been enjoying the 120Ω beryllium drivers. Here's a comparison to the 2020 K's LB (aka LBBS) and the original ST-10.
Note: the 120Ω measurement is with EQ applied.


----------



## 528068

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...724857.videoBannerStyleB_top.3.39606c264PMUl1 IEM planar drivers. Would really like to see somebody review them.

Specs:


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 18, 2020)

DR650SE said:


> Can anyone help guide me? I realize this is a DIY earbuds thread and think this fits.
> 
> I have Westone W40 IEMs. The shell on the left ear cracked open. Then that happened, one of the wires broke. I'm in the midst of trying to repair them.  I replaced the ground and signal wire with enameled copper wire.  However I must be missing a jumper wire or something, because I don't seem to have any high end.  When I test it out, it sounds different from the right ear bud which is working.   I believe I'm missing the high end.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated!



Wrong thread. But when it cracked, were they dropped? Could have a damaged BA driver.

Try here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/home-made-iems.430688/unread



TheRealestLad said:


> https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...724857.videoBannerStyleB_top.3.39606c264PMUl1 IEM planar drivers. Would really like to see somebody review them.
> 
> Specs:



Wrong thread, this one is for Earbuds. 

Try here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/home-made-iems.430688/unread


----------



## furyossa

TheRealestLad said:


> https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...724857.videoBannerStyleB_top.3.39606c264PMUl1 IEM planar drivers. Would really like to see somebody review them.
> 
> Specs:


It's very difficult to tune it but ... here is an example for earbuds 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cli...uly-21-20-tws-earbud-mod.899252/post-14937629


----------



## robar (Sep 18, 2020)

So I tested the large pk-style speakers from cklewis. So there is one properly working unit, which sounds pretty nice, impressive bass and smooth full sounding mids/treble for a 14.8mm driver. Treble is a bit rolled off. I tested in the B40 shells with stock tuning, it definitely feels like an improvement from my particular b40s. But sadly one speaker of the pair has some problem because it sounds muffled the treble is almost missing, very typical "lemon sound" maybe it got damaged on the way or I screwed it up somehow. I measured it as well, there is like 8dB minus at 8khz compared to the properly working one. This happens to me a lot and it's very frustrating because I waited for like 3+ months… I've already tried resoldering, switching shells, redoing the tuning, but it's the speaker. I start to have a little collection of the lemons :/ I'll try the sucking method if nothing helps, I have some hope because only the treble is problematic, but also getting pretty annoyed at the moment, this happened to me too many times this year, most of these were not curable, like with the titanium 64ohm when I had to ask for replacement.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 20, 2020)

Spent some time this evening re-tuning the 120Ω beryllium and the 150Ω redfilm.


I included the measurements I took with my 2nd version of the coupler, as they are prior to most changes and are when it was simply installed driver and center of horseshoe tuning foam on the vent (basically minimal tuning). It has a weird dip around 2.4k and measures almost flat from 2.5-8k due to weird resonance (basically 2k-8k is useless for comparisons).



Settled on the 'blue' tuning for the 120Ω Be driver for now. I may return to it to try and bring the lower mids/mid bass down another 1-2db.



If you look at the green line, this driver can be tuned almost 'flat' or monitor style neutral.

Currently have the 150Ω redfilm drivers on the 'red' setup. Haven't listened to it yet as I just epoxied the MMCX and will need to wait for it to cure.


Of all the 14.8mm drivers I've tried it has the least bass roll off.




robar said:


> I start to have a little collection of the lemons :/ I'll try the sucking method if nothing helps, I have some hope because only the treble is problematic, but also getting pretty annoyed at the moment, this happened to me too many times this year, most of these were not curable, like with the titanium 64ohm when I had to ask for replacement.



Man, that sucks.

Even worse is when you damage it like I did the N55 64Ω. I broke the coil wires on one making it.


Hopefully the 'suck' method worked and it was only a crinkled diaphragm from assembly.


----------



## jogawag

assassin10000 said:


> Of all the 14.8mm drivers I've tried it has the least bass roll off.


How about your SR2 drivers?


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 21, 2020)

jogawag said:


> How about your SR2 drivers?



The DIY SR2 ones? I haven't measured them but I wasn't as impressed with them, so they're just sitting with all my extra drivers. Probably because I spoiled myself with the 150Ω redfilm driver that came at the same time.



Anyone in the US looking for some 14.8mm drivers to experiment with? I have a few pairs I won't be using.

16Ω SR2
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1666829407.html

32Ω bass
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32877041035.html

32Ω balanced mesh (one grill surround cracked on install so fits loose, can be solved with a dab of e8000 glue)
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32230887418.html


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 24, 2020)

Did a little more fine tuning on the 14.8mm 120Ω beryllium drivers and with my USB-C dac they are playing in the same realm as the 150Ω redfilm pk1 drivers. These definitely require a bit more power & EQ to sound their best, goes from 2nd tier DIY driver to near top tier IMO.

On the BT20S they are not quite as dynamic sounding (slightly dry or less 'wet' sounding) and treble/detail/air is slightly less.


On the blue tuning (this is with no EQ applied).


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 24, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Forgot to post these:
> 
> The 120Ω beryllium driver covers were swapped from the 16.7mm plastic ones to the smaller O.D. stainless ones.
> 
> ...



Regarding the 120Ω Be drivers. They come with the larger modded PK shells and covers that are 16.7mm O.D.

I was able to safely remove the drivers and swap them into the smaller stainless steel covers 16.1-16.3mm O.D. They do have some glue holding them in and fortunately I had no mishaps.

What I did find interesting is that the MFG added an extra spacer between the driver and the inside of the cover. If you look at the picture below there is an extra brass ring that was glued in before the driver was placed. This ring is the same that is used to hold the diaphragm material around the outside edge, I placed my bad N55 64Ω driver next to the ring removed from the cover.



I wonder if it is just to prevent contact between the diaphragm and the cover or perhaps it allows for some additional soundstage and/or other sound tuning. It may take someone with better ears than me to tell. Plus I'm not going to swap the drivers back and forth to test.


Took a few minutes to take a couple quick measurements of these via my BT20S both with and without EQ & +3.0db on the bass tuner of the Wavelet app. These are the settings I came up with by ear to my preference. I switch between the red & blue graphed settings.



White = via USB-C DAC
Green = BT20S
Red = BT20S & EQ
Blue = BT20S, EQ & +3.0db bass


----------



## gleanfont

im learning from this thread! keep it up. You are so cool guys.


----------



## Plicco

This looks definitely interesting, have anyone ever heard of this rubidium driver? 😱

€ 14,63  25%OFF | 14MM 32 ohm Flat Headphone Drivers Speakers DIY Magnetic Clear HiFi Loudspeakers Audiophile Speakers
https://a.aliexpress.com/_B0N03v


----------



## assassin10000

Plicco said:


> This looks definitely interesting, have anyone ever heard of this rubidium driver? 😱
> 
> € 14,63  25%OFF | 14MM 32 ohm Flat Headphone Drivers Speakers DIY Magnetic Clear HiFi Loudspeakers Audiophile Speakers
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_B0N03v



I messaged a seller about those a while ago, according to them they are not good for earbud use. They are for IEM/sealed housing use.


----------



## Themilkman46290

assassin10000 said:


> Spent some time this evening re-tuning the 120Ω beryllium and the 150Ω redfilm.
> 
> 
> I included the measurements I took with my 2nd version of the coupler, as they are prior to most changes and are when it was simply installed driver and center of horseshoe tuning foam on the vent (basically minimal tuning). It has a weird dip around 2.4k and measures almost flat from 2.5-8k due to weird resonance (basically 2k-8k is useless for comparisons).
> ...


So after some tuning and playing with the 120 ohm 14.8mm, would you recommend them? 
Are they worth it? 
I was going to order them a month back, but had read on here that the bass is really rolled off. I have been watching your post and it seems you have had some success in tuning. I was going to try the red film, but I don't think they will compete with the 400ohm or the 130 beryllium, the 120ohm seem a bit cheaper then the red film.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 26, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> So after some tuning and playing with the 120 ohm 14.8mm, would you recommend them?
> Are they worth it?
> I was going to order them a month back, but had read on here that the bass is really rolled off. I have been watching your post and it seems you have had some success in tuning. I was going to try the red film, but I don't think they will compete with the 400ohm or the 130 beryllium, the 120ohm seem a bit cheaper then the red film.



If you are looking for a higher impedance 14.8mm driver and will be driving these with a good source, I would say they could be worth it.

I think I'm the only one here that currently has them, so I'm guessing it was me that said that  . And it is true without tuning (just the shell and foam on vent) the bass was terribly rolled off, about -22db from 200hz. I posted a graph showing this here:



assassin10000 said:


>




I've not heard the 15.4mm 400Ω or 130Ω drivers. I find 15.4mm uncomfortable so I skip them. Can't help with any comparisons here.


As far as the 150Ω red film drivers, they still are my top pick for 14.8mm drivers. If you can only get a pair I would personally choose them 1st. They have better sub-bass extension and sensitivity seems a bit better matched for lower powered sources compared to the 120Ω Be.

By that I mean the 120Ω sound a bit veiled/dull/muffled on my BT20S, compared to driving them with my TC35B. The 150Ω redfilm sound fine on the BT20S, I haven't had an extended listen yet on the TC35B so they may also scale.


Edit: I've not gone back to the 40Ω Ti or 64Ω N55 drivers and re-tuned them. So they are also a potential option still.


----------



## Themilkman46290

assassin10000 said:


> If you are looking for a higher impedance 14.8mm driver and will be driving these with a good source, I would say they could be worth it.
> 
> I think I'm the only one here that currently has them, so I'm guessing it was me that said that  . And it is true without tuning (just the shell and foam on vent) the bass was terribly rolled off, about -22db from 200hz. I posted a graph showing this here:
> 
> ...


Thanks, I been thinking about trying some 14.8mm for my wife, she wanted to try the 120ohm, so your graphs and comparisons are very helpful. 
Thanks for taking the time and effort, I beleive we all appreciate it 

It's to bad you have fit issues with the 15.4mm, I was able to tune them with great success the 400ohm and 130ohm are fantastic but they also need a good powerful source to shine.


----------



## golov17

120 ohm not 14.8 mm.... maybe 15, after some tuning and glue (for original Yuin housing) sounds good..
but they demand good gain, despite 120 ohms, low sensitivity.. imho


----------



## assassin10000

golov17 said:


> 120 ohm not 14.8 mm.... maybe 15, after some tuning and glue (for original Yuin housing) sounds good..
> but they demand good gain, despite 120 ohms, low sensitivity.. imho



You have the 120Ω Berylliums too? Cool.

The drivers are 14.8mm. The new design shells and covers are 15.0mm. The drivers had to be glued to the covers they come with but fit perfect in 14.8mm covers.

Agreed. They need more power than many earbuds do. Typical of higher impedance and lower sensitivity drivers.


----------



## golov17

120 ohm swd2, fluff compared to them..


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 27, 2020)

golov17 said:


> 120 ohm swd2, fluff compared to them..



Ohhhh.

Yeah, I would hope a TOTL bud would be better.


----------



## golov17

in fairness, I note that the sound of beryllium drivers is very original and does not look like something else ... maybe Fiio em5, but I have not heard them yet


----------



## 730user

15.4mm 130 ohm - great speakers. but from a smartphone (snapdragon, kirin processors) - they sound bad. from zishan 2, strongly modded - acceptable. with amplifier Lee Hood 1969 - sounds better.


----------



## Plicco

I just received my package from China with one of the new titanium drivers ordered from NSC audio store, which is this one:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_B0o3rJ

it is a 120db 64 ohm unit.

but instead of that i found this one:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_B0VIoz

which has identical diaphragm picture but is rated 114db 64ohm and has unfortunately a metal cover that I really don't like. Apparently it's still a very good driver and maybe it's even the same, so I don't know what should I do about that.
Any advice or experience with the store?


----------



## assassin10000

I've had good luck working with NSC thus far. I would take a picture of them with a multi meter showing the wrong ones were received and see if they can send the correct ones.


----------



## Plicco

I will ask them for sure, but it could be that they are the same driver? It seems a bit weird to me, but the pictures are identical, only the enclosure changes from a plastic to a metal mesh one, and the stated sensitivity. 
I wondered what do you think about this. Maybe it's un updated model? It would still seem quite unusual, but I wanted to hear your opinion before asking to the store.


----------



## assassin10000

Someone else will have to chime in. I don't know much about the 15.4.mm drivers available.


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 30, 2020)

Went back and did a little more fine tuning on the 14.8mm PK1 150Ω red film. The sub-bass extension on these drivers is really good.



Currently on the blue line.


Need to make another couple pairs of shells and re-do the 64Ω N55 and 40Ω Ti drivers.


----------



## furyossa

Plicco said:


> I just received my package from China with one of the new titanium drivers ordered from NSC audio store, which is this one:
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_B0o3rJ
> 
> ...


Seems to me that is exactly the same driver 65.4ohm (120dB). The titles on Ali are always messed up.


----------



## kadas152

Anyone tried Smabat M2 Pro with ST10s Gold driver in them?
Would be pretty cheap way of getting ST10s like sound for about half the price using DIY kit...


----------



## 730user

Has anyone assembled headphones with 400 ohm graphene speakers? How do they compare to beryllium130 ohm headphones?


----------



## Themilkman46290

730user said:


> Has anyone assembled headphones with 400 ohm graphene speakers? How do they compare to beryllium130 ohm headphones?


At the top of the thread there is a search bar, if you enter "400ohm" you will be surprised to find that the 400ohm graphene is well spoken of and mentioned fairly often


----------



## 730user

Themilkman46290 said:


> At the top of the thread there is a search bar, if you enter "400ohm" you will be surprised to find that the 400ohm graphene is well spoken of and mentioned fairly often


ок.


----------



## furyossa

730user said:


> Has anyone assembled headphones with 400 ohm graphene speakers? How do they compare to beryllium130 ohm headphones?


And the difference in price, in this case, is justified. IMHO 400ohm is a better driver overall. Same as 500ohm and even 600ohm


----------



## assassin10000

Went and re-did the 64Ω N55 driver tuning as well. They sound really good, even with lower powered sources like my BT20S (or my older phones).

Going from about 7-8db pinna gain to about 10db definitely brings a slight increase in clarity without being sibilant or harsh. The treble is up across the board and brings details a little more forward but no so far as to be fatiguing or bright.


Here they are vs the 120Ω beryllium drivers. Kind of normalized them for comparison purposes (at about 800hz).


----------



## assassin10000

Built another pair of shells and tuned the 40Ω Ti drivers. They live up to their 'deep bass' moniker (listed by the seller) as the extension is very good. 

Bass extension is very similar to the 150Ω redfilm. Treble rolls off after 5k, good for those that have treble sensitivity.


----------



## cappuchino

Hi. I don't know if this is the right thread to ask but I'll do it here anyway. So the problem is that the MX500 shell of my red Vidos when used with foams become too large for my hears. It feels like it's forcing the canal to become larger which start to hurt after a while. And so, I started using the Vidos without foams. It now fits me better but there's a huge trade-off with the bass and pseudo-isolation. Is there a compromise for this? If there are easy mods for this that can be done within a few minutes, then I'm down for that. TIA!


----------



## DBaldock9

sub30 said:


> Hi. I don't know if this is the right thread to ask but I'll do it here anyway. So the problem is that the MX500 shell of my red Vidos when used with foams become too large for my hears. It feels like it's forcing the canal to become larger which start to hurt after a while. And so, I started using the Vidos without foams. It now fits me better but there's a huge trade-off with the bass and pseudo-isolation. Is there a compromise for this? If there are easy mods for this that can be done within a few minutes, then I'm down for that. TIA!



Something like these silicone rings, could provide a bit more "traction" and a better seal, than the plastic earbud shell -  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001146948880.html


----------



## assassin10000

assassin10000 said:


> Built another pair of shells and tuned the 40Ω Ti drivers. They live up to their 'deep bass' moniker (listed by the seller) as the extension is very good.
> 
> Bass extension is very similar to the 150Ω redfilm. Treble rolls off after 5k, good for those that have treble sensitivity.



Now that I've had some time with it, the treble is quiet but there. It's definitely a step back from the bass & mids. Sounds good still, I think they'd be great for those treble sensitive or needing something in the evening before bed that is a smoother listen. Or even those wanting good sub-bass extension, they also respond to EQ decently for those that want more bass. 

May also be really good for vocal centric stuff like podcasts or audiobooks. But I don't listen to those so ymmv.



sub30 said:


> Hi. I don't know if this is the right thread to ask but I'll do it here anyway. So the problem is that the MX500 shell of my red Vidos when used with foams become too large for my hears. It feels like it's forcing the canal to become larger which start to hurt after a while. And so, I started using the Vidos without foams. It now fits me better but there's a huge trade-off with the bass and pseudo-isolation. Is there a compromise for this? If there are easy mods for this that can be done within a few minutes, then I'm down for that. TIA!



Besides the rings posted above, the only other option is to go to a smaller driver & housing in a smaller earbud. 

I mean you could try sanding it down but the dust will also get to the driver through the holes and will be a bit finicky to do. Just be careful to not go too far, the plastic isn't all that thick.


----------



## Vannak

furyossa said:


> I just finish this MX500 "over-ear" mod prototype. I never have a proper fit with regular MX500 shells and I've been looking for a solution for some time. This concept (mmcx or cabled variant) can be worn over-ear or str8-up.


Wow
I have the same fit problem too
Thanks for sharing


----------



## furyossa

Vannak said:


> Wow
> I have the same fit problem too
> Thanks for sharing


I use the "cable" version for over-ear, just put soft cable, and U good to go   The mod is not so easy to make but its worth it


----------



## coflaes

subwoof3r said:


> Hi there! long time no see, I'm still enjoying a lot my new hobby: freestyle drone fpv  hope you guys are well since?
> Is there anything better than our best favorite drivers 19-21kHz since @robar ?
> I'm still amazed by my mod, they are so far the best earbuds I listened since so many years now.
> All my other earbuds takes dust. Each day at work, coupled with my ES100, it's a pure joy.
> ...


Hi! I am a big fan of all your creations, could you tell me more about this one? I would love to make one


----------



## furyossa (Nov 16, 2020)

**** ShoonTH ESEP-01BL “Gold” mod ****
After 70 days my last order finally arrived from Penon Audio. *ShoonTH ESEP-01BL* is an entry-level earbud in *ShoonTH* lineup.
Unlike this model, it is obvious that more expensive models have more OHM's and better quality cable. At first, I was a little skeptical about the headphone shell
because so far I don't have any model with the same shell but it turns out that this model has slightly better ergonomics in terms of fit.
The only thing that really "stings my eye" is the cables with which I had a bad experience on earlier models because it degraded the sound a lot.
This one has ok wire inside, not sound so bad, but still overall look and feel is not nice so I decided to swap the cable and to explore "what lies beneath the hood".
The driver inside is an old school japan-made Foster drive with very promising specs. Original tuning is mid-centric with good extension on both ends,
but what is characteristic about these earphones and what sets them apart from other cheap models is imaging.
Another thing that is interesting here is the more intimate sound, something like closed-back headphones, but in the right sense.
There is much less noise from the outside than in the classics earphones, which is really weird, and that's another reason to see what's going on inside 

And then came the first problem, how to open the hard-sealed earbuds without damage the driver. In my experience, there is a 50-50 chance to fail.
The first attempt was to put the shells in a plastic bag and soak them in warm water to soften the glue. This failed. 
The next try is riskier, I wrapped the shells in aluminum foil and lightly heated the joint between the driver and the shell with a lighter. This worked. 
BTW I don't recommend this method, especially on plastic shells. Anyway ...








The main trick here was to block the opening on one side (inside ear - rear side of shel) to create extra pressure that is released only on the rear side
which is not covered by the ear. A very clever move. This also produces a closed-back effect which is good if you want to use earbuds outside.
The only drawback is that it reduces the sound stage. I mostly use earphones inside so I decided to remove hot glue, remove black foam, cut it to two pieces
and place it only to cover shell back vent ports.




For this mod, I used *RY-C15 cable* because it is soft, lightweight, and can fit easily inside the shell. I added a small piece of shrink wrap to prevent
unwinding and pulling the cable out of the shell. Also, broke small pin from silver parts to open small holes on the back of the shell.
In this way, a little more pressure can be released from the shell, but in this case, it does not go directly outside, but into the neck of the shell.
And this is the final result. Mids are still in front but not as much as in the original, the bass is better defined, is fast, and not interfere with mids at all.
Treble is smooth, but on the other hand, the soundstage does not go so much in depth but more in width, and It is followed by really good imaging.


----------



## robar (Oct 17, 2020)

furyossa said:


> **** ShoonTH ESEP-01BL “Gold” mod ****
> After 70 days my last order finally arrived from Penon Audio. *ShoonTH ESEP-01BL* is an entry-level earbud in *ShoonTH* lineup.
> Unlike this model, it is obvious that more expensive models have more OHM's and better quality cable. At first, I was a little skeptical about the headphone shell
> because so far I don't have any model with the same shell but it turns out that this model has slightly better ergonomics in terms of fit.
> ...


Thanks for sharing, nice mods! I plan to build something finally with my dp100 shells anyway, mabye I can try something out from your mod.  What kind of foam did you put on the vents? Regular horseshoe which comes with sets of mx500 shells? Did you leave the cable opening open? My main problem with (transparent) dp100 shells was dark upper mids/treble, which made the sound muddy or at least dull for my taste. Will try 19-21 drivers next time, but these shells are really comfortable with thin covers like the one shoonth has or the type of steel mesh which the N50 driver has. By the way, isn't the "outside vent" covered by the ear (sits towards the back of the head) and vice versa?


----------



## furyossa (Oct 17, 2020)

robar said:


> Thanks for sharing, nice mods! I plan to build something finally with my dp100 shells anyway, mabye I can try something out from your mod.  What kind of foam did you put on the vents? Regular horseshoe which comes with sets of mx500 shells? Did you leave the cable opening open? My main problem with (transparent) dp100 shells was dark upper mids/treble, which made the sound muddy or at least dull for my taste. Will try 19-21 drivers next time, but these shells are really comfortable with thin covers like the one shoonth has or the type of steel mesh which the N50 driver has. By the way, isn't the "outside vent" covered by the ear (sits towards the back of the head) and vice versa?


Thanks neighbor, I'm glad you like it.  I promised to make a "short" review when they arrive and here it is after a long wait.
Yup, it's regular horseshoe black foam. I used the same foams. Sometimes I take a needle and stick a couple of times this thick foam to have more pores.
I don't like to put this foam over the driver but just to cover the side ports of the shell. By cable opening, you mean at the end of the "neck"? This opening is sealed by shrink wrap rubber probably more than 90%. I was thinking of closing it completely and right next to drilling a small hole, but I didn't want to destroy the shell unnecessarily.
The only thing I would do is close the air passage at the junction of the "head" and the "neck" of the shell where the cables pass so that the air just passes through
that little hole where the pin was. But I’m happy with the bass that’s present right now.
About outside vent in my case ineer vents are covered 100% and outside vents maybe only down hole but the rest is the open 
Quality of shell material is not that good as the MX500 model but ergonomics is way above MX500 which I can't wear when I lie in bed.
The dp100 can get into the ear more and hold up very well. Unfortunately, this is not a shell for mmcx mod especially with a shorter "neck".
You probably right, this shell can tame-down treble on DIY drivers, but with this old school japanize driver I don't hear any muddy or dull sound.
It covers a nice frequency range (10hz-22KHz) I think they tuned it well for this shell because these more expensive models use the same shell.
It definitely sounds different from any DIY driver that I have in the collection. Is it sound better? Hmmm ... more or less.
It depends on different genres. I like that it is different from most and it is pleasant for all-day listening. Wide soundstage and imaging are unique,
the mids remind me of TinHIFI T2. But still like better HE150 soundstage and sub-bass

It's a little riskier to play with these branded earphones, especially when you wait 70 days for them to arrive ,
but it's better than having them in the boxes because I don't like something about them.
I hope you agree with me.
I destroy my HE150  by trying to separate them from the shell, now I have only HE150Pro so my plan is to try it again, of course not to destroy it


----------



## rprodrigues

KevDzn said:


> DAY10 LOCKDOWN
> With so much time on my hands I decided to mod some Docomos and Kube V1 earbuds.



Very nice work!!!

Would you mind sharing the link where you got the docomo shells?


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 19, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> @assassin10000
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> ...



Responding here, since it's the more appropriate thread.


The DIY PK1 150Ω redfilm are my favorites, whether they sound like the original I have no idea. I haven't heard the original Yuin PK1.

Coming in just slightly behind are the N55 64Ω (easy to drive) and when well powered the 120Ω Berylliums (harder to drive).


https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32348950463.html
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4001039931437.html

I couldn't say one way or another, I don't have a bunch of cables. I currently only have 3-4 copper cables or use my DIY earbuds with my BT20S.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Responding here, since it's the more appropriate thread.
> 
> 
> The DIY PK1 150Ω redfilm are my favorites, whether they sound like the original I have no idea. I haven't heard the original Yuin PK1.
> ...


New colors
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001311556541.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001278241975.html


rprodrigues said:


> Very nice work!!!
> 
> Would you mind sharing the link where you got the docomo shells?



About docomo, here you can buy with pk2 driver. Ask for 3 pieces (1 spare) just in case some of these not work.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32581904591.html


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> New colors
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001311556541.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001278241975.html



Fyi 1st link is the newer larger modified PK shell 15.0mm and will need minor sanding or filing to make 14.8mm drivers/covers fit.


One of my PK1 redfilm driver covers broke trying to fit them on that shell without filing it down. Never sounded the same after, which is why I had to buy another pair.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Fyi 1st link is the newer larger modified PK shell 15.0mm and will need minor sanding or filing to make 14.8mm drivers/covers fit.
> 
> 
> One of my PK1 redfilm driver covers broke trying to fit them on that shell without filing it down. Never sounded the same after, which is why I had to buy another pair.


I have had a similar experience with this type of shells and 15.4mm driver. It's very good for mmcx mods but requires larger covers and serious sanding. 
I broke a couple of drivers by trying to set them up
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976726281.html


----------



## 730user (Oct 21, 2020)

We talked about the fact that these are not very good 150 Ohm speakers.

https://aliexpress.ru/item/32971170...nta2MSspN7q0xAk_1h7Qqg2hduJRFxYhoCztEQAvD_BwE

This is true. And they don't fit well with Foster's headphone casings.
I tested these speakers in Nokia hds-3 headphone cases. They fit this headphone case. The sound cannot be called very very good. But it's acceptable, not as bad as the Foster's headphone cases.
PS. The sound with the phone is very bad, with the player the sound is acceptable.


----------



## jogawag (Oct 21, 2020)

Black and White Docomo Old Variant earbuds re-drivered with Docomo New Variatnt earbuds' driver and recabled with cheep OCC cable.
The bass of this earbuds is well enhanced than with the original New Docomo Variant shell, perhaps due to the long stems of Docomo Old Variant shell.
I purchased Docomo Old Variant earbuds at a flea market, and cheep OCC cable for $5 in aliexpress.


----------



## cappuchino

Hey guys! Need help. So I'm planning to do an mmcx mod on my MX500 shells (Vido and K's Nameless). The thing is, I don't have a clue on how to DIY these stuff. Is there a right size of female mmcx to buy? Saw these and they're selling three types.



Spoiler: Female MMCX









Converted to USD, they'll be worth a dollar a pair. 

...

One little problem (or big?), I don't have a soldering iron. Would a heated needle work?

 And on enlarging the hole of the housing, can I use something like this? 



Spoiler: Screw








 Would heating it up help or would this just damage the shell?


TIA


----------



## GREQ

sub30 said:


> Would a heated needle work?
> 
> And on enlarging the hole of the housing, can I use something like this?
> 
> Would heating it up help or would this just damage the shell?


- Nope. Not a chance.
- Nope. Unless you plan on using a very thin one like a file. But needle-files are like $1 for a cheap one.
- And, not really. The temperature margin between any thermoplastic becoming maleable to melting is so thin, it's just not practical.


----------



## cappuchino

Thanks for the reply. Guess I'll be sticking to just recabling them then.


----------



## SiggyFraud

sub30 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Guess I'll be sticking to just recabling them then.


You're still going to need a soldering iron to do that. Can't you ask someone to do it for you locally?


----------



## captione

sub30 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Guess I'll be sticking to just recabling them then.


You should buy the soldering iron first! It's fairly easy to do. Here's a cheap iron that I bought from shopee:
https://shopee.ph/product/8710520/3639782107?smtt=0.80807219-1603717945.9

You can also find other important things such as tin and soldering flux in that shop. 
Would only set you back a hundred pesos or less with vouchers.


----------



## 730user

This is the diy headphone forum. Therefore, I recommend diy soldering station. 
https://aliexpress.ru/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20201026055131&SearchText=t12+паяльник
https://aliexpress.ru/item/32740527...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## assassin10000

sub30 said:


> Hey guys! Need help. So I'm planning to do an mmcx mod on my MX500 shells (Vido and K's Nameless). The thing is, I don't have a clue on how to DIY these stuff. Is there a right size of female mmcx to buy? Saw these and they're selling three types.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The two left style MMCX would work. You'll also want a 2.5mm drill bit and an M3 x 0.5mm tap to make threads. 

Actually it would be best to have several small bits and work up in size to the 2.5mm bit. IIRC I start with a .8mm or 1.0mm bit and keep stepping up sizes (IE: 1.0, 1.5, 2.0 and finally 2.5).


As others said, need a soldering iron (preferably with a small pointed tip). This is both for being in the proper temp range and also to keep from overheating or damaging parts as well.


----------



## furyossa (Oct 26, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> The two left style MMCX would work. You'll also want a 2.5mm drill bit and an M3 x 0.5mm tap to make threads.
> 
> Actually it would be best to have several small bits and work up in size to the 2.5mm bit. IIRC I start with a .8mm or 1.0mm bit and keep stepping up sizes (IE: 1.0, 1.5, 2.0 and finally 2.5).
> 
> ...


I will just add video links for your *2nd* and *3rd* comment


----------



## 730user (Oct 28, 2020)

I made some good headphones. I remade them from a broken siemens headset (yuin PK2 16 ohm speakers). I like it more than just replacing the cable in this Siemens (Xilibre) headset. It's more comfortable and more bass.
The hole is covered with silicone and a sticker for marking L and R.
I  think it is easy to embed mmcx. But I don't like them.
PS. The sound is good with both the player and the smartphone. These will be some of my favorite headphones.


----------



## cappuchino

Hi. Just wanna ask some advice Re: Recabling...

So my brother broke the stock cable of his IEM. And I thought that I should just reuse it for my Vidos. I've already prepared the cable for soldering (removed memory wire and the plastic covering thing, as well as the connector of course). Is there anything I should take note as to not make a mistake as this is my first time trying my hand on these stuff.

TIA


----------



## GREQ

sub30 said:


> Hi. Just wanna ask some advice Re: Recabling...
> 
> So my brother broke the stock cable of his IEM. And I thought that I should just reuse it for my Vidos. I've already prepared the cable for soldering (removed memory wire and the plastic covering thing, as well as the connector of course). Is there anything I should take note as to not make a mistake as this is my first time trying my hand on these stuff.
> 
> TIA


While I'm not an authority on the exact proper techniques, this is what works well for me:

Pre-tin the ends of the cables:
Sometimes this requires a bit of pre-heating the bare cables to melt away a layer of plastic coating on what looks like bare wires.
This normally requires quite a high temperature on the iron and flux helps clean it up a bit.
Once they're 'clean' you can lower the temperature slightly and add solder to the bare tips.
You don't want the iron too hot, or you will start melting the cable sheath. 

Now that it's prepared, use a multimeter to make sure you solder the drivers on with the correct polarity.
Both drivers must be soldered with the signal flowing in the same direction. Twist the polarity, and it will sound bad.

Some people say that you should use a slightly cooler soldering iron not to over-heat the driver, but I prefer the other method.
I use the hottest iron I can for the shortest period of time. A VERY quick melt and hold. So far, it works very well for me.

If I use a cooler temperature, I have to hold it there for longer, which means the heat has more time to spread around the driver.
This method seems higher risk to me.


----------



## cappuchino

Thanks for the reply. My soldering kit should arrive in a couple of days, though I don't think it will last as it's only $3 🤣. 

Just one concern, there's no temperature control for the soldering iron. Should I unplug it as to lower the temperature?

Oh, and one more thing. I don't have a multimeter with me. Should I just base on colors, as when I checked it, the cables have the same set of colors?

TIA


----------



## GREQ

Nah, even a cheap soldering iron should be fine for this sort of work.
Just work quickly and confidently since it will be on full power the whole time.
When I say quickly, I only mean to keep it in contact with things for a short time... obviously take your time between steps.  

I usually hold the wires with a pair of tweezers, and hold the driver down in a small vice clamp, or stick it in a lump of blue tack on the table.
This way, when I hold the wire directly over the driver contact, I only need to dab the soldering iron onto the wire/driver for about half a second, which is long enough to melt all the solder. Then after another half second, it's all set again and you can let go with the tweezers.

If you kept note of which colour goes where, then it's all good.
At least the ground should be the same colour for both sides, so it should be easy to prevent twisting the polarity.


----------



## furyossa

GREQ said:


> While I'm not an authority on the exact proper techniques, this is what works well for me


Based on your comments, we can see that you are an expert in this, but you are too modest to admit it


----------



## rprodrigues

Has anyone here already modded the stock cable of TP16 to balanced? 
The same question to Tomahawk.

I can't figure out, by external inspection, if its stock cable has 3 or 4 cores...


----------



## furyossa (Nov 1, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Has anyone here already modded the stock cable of TP16 to balanced?
> The same question to Tomahawk.
> 
> I can't figure out, by external inspection, if its stock cable has 3 or 4 cores...


In most cases stock cable has 4 cores: one wire for left (L+) and one wire for right (R+) channel and 2 wires for ground (2 x G).
In the case of (2.5mm plug) balanced cable 2 wires for ground are L- and R-.





Another is 4.4mm plug PENTACONN




Use a multimeter to determine which pinouts on the inside (where soldering is performed) match the outside.
Also, this is useful info "Pinouts for DIY"


----------



## cappuchino

Need HEELLPPP
Just finished recabling my earbuds. Only the right earbud works. What do I do? THere's like oxidation in the driver of the left one. Did I f'ed up?


----------



## captione

sub30 said:


> Need HEELLPPP
> Just finished recabling my earbuds. Only the right earbud works. What do I do? THere's like oxidation in the driver of the left one. Did I f'ed up?


Can you take a picture?


----------



## cappuchino

Sorry... can't at the moment. Tried everything. I think I overheated the driver or diaphragm or whatever part breaks when too much heat is applied. Good thing that it was on my Vidos, though I broke a perfectly working pair of buds which I really enjoyed.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 3, 2020)

sub30 said:


> Sorry... can't at the moment. Tried everything. I think I overheated the driver or diaphragm or whatever part breaks when too much heat is applied. Good thing that it was on my Vidos, though I broke a perfectly working pair of buds which I really enjoyed.


"Welcome to the club"  Now will know what can cause problems next time.
A great experience is gained with such mistakes, so "don't worry be happy".
At least you tried with a cheap pair. Modding is a risky business, but that is the charm.
If it's any consolation, every time I make a bad move , I take a short break and watch a motivational video,
something like this one. 
I am currently planning to take some used pair of Grado SR80e and try to mod it.
This model is perfect for experimentation


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> "Welcome to the club"  Now will know what can cause problems next time.
> A great experience is gained with such mistakes, so "don't worry be happy".
> At least you tried with a cheap pair. Modding is a risky business, but that is the charm.
> If it's any consolation, every time I make a bad move , I take a short break and watch a motivational video,
> ...



I have got the sr80e, great pair, I haven't modded mine, but once I have the proper tools, I plan on making some cups...


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> I have got the sr80e, great pair, I haven't modded mine, but once I have the proper tools, I plan on making some cups...


Probably because you're happy with how the original sounds 
There is a lot of things that can be so fun to do:
- Cups (aluminum or wood) - they suggested that the cup need to be shorter with a sparse mesh
- MMCX will be a nice addition
- Headband with more padding etc.
Also, the 2K peak will be difficult to solve.
Apart from separating the glued parts, this would probably be the most demanding task.

The other pair I'm also interested in, even more than Grado, is Sennheiser HD25 Light. 
It's a cheaper version of HD25, same driver,  with a simpler headband and 2-side cable which is ideal for a balanced version.
The most important thing is that it can be easily disassembled (no glued parts) and there are many aftermarket mods for it.
Customcans are very good but LOCENOISE is another level for sure


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Probably because you're happy with how the original sounds
> There is a lot of things that can be so fun to do:
> - Cups (aluminum or wood) - they suggested that the cup need to be shorter with a sparse mesh
> - MMCX will be a nice addition
> ...


Yeah, they do sound pretty good, my idea is to make wood cups, and transfer drivers, then experiment with the earpads and meshes, but for now, have to keep doing the home renovations ( no more gear until all the furniture and living room is done!!) but I am lucky, my wife is a bit of a hifi addict so it may happen sooner.............


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> I am lucky, my wife is a bit of a hifi addict so it may happen sooner.............


You are really lucky man 
I hope you've seen this one before. It's like "Rolls-Royce" mod for Grado


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Nov 4, 2020)

furyossa said:


> You are really lucky man
> I hope you've seen this one before. It's like "Rolls-Royce" mod for Grado



Haven't seen this video, but thats pretty much what I would like to do, leather head band, alloy gymbals and wood cups.......
Allready have the purple heart and wavy maple wood, and some really nice, 2.2mm thick un dyed veg tan Italian leather....


----------



## Sam L (Nov 11, 2020)

furyossa said:


> On the left you can see inside of the original shell. This cascading profile muffles the sound. On the right is modded shell. I used file tool to trim this "staircase" shape but
> but I didn't get much open sound. It's not worth it


Nice! Regardless of whether you achieved your target 100%, I absolutely LOVE the thinking and spirit of innovation behind the effort. Just made my day by viewing this post. I'm really interested in what future efforts look like!


----------



## furyossa

Sam L said:


> Nice! Regardless of whether you achieved your target 100%, I absolutely LOVE the thinking and spirit of innovation behind the effort. Just made my day by viewing this post. I'm really interested in what future efforts look like!


This is a very good comment (at 47:20 min) by Paul on why the size and shape of the inside of the shell are important


----------



## Merlin-PT

This 11.11 there's a good price (77% off) for these smabat drivers:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001268432243.html


----------



## furyossa

Merlin-PT said:


> This 11.11 there's a good price (77% off) for these smabat drivers:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001268432243.html


Nice discount for sure. I like this modular concept by Smabat, 
I would like to see other companies switch to this modular system as well


----------



## Merlin-PT (Nov 12, 2020)

Yes I like the concept and it's a good price for those drivers.
Still I prefer the 400ohm driver detail, sounds much better to me, that is my favorite driver.


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 12, 2020)

Anyone would know what is the driver used by the MX500 DIY from Fengru?
I damaged mine yesterday.

By the way, is there a budge driver with improved clarity?
Are the praised 19-21 a good replacement?
(http://aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html)


----------



## jogawag

rprodrigues said:


> Anyone would know what is the driver used by the MX500 DIY from Fengru?
> I damaged mine yesterday.
> 
> By the way, is there a budge driver with improved clarity?
> ...



"Brand Name: FENGRU" is written at the SPECIFICATIONS of this page.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983216125.html


----------



## furyossa (Nov 12, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Anyone would know what is the driver used by the MX500 DIY from Fengru?
> I damaged mine yesterday.
> 
> By the way, is there a budge driver with improved clarity?
> ...


What have you done with your MX500 driver? Some DIY kinds of stuff?
I think that @robar has a 19-21kHz driver.
You don't see so often DIY driver with freq. range 19-21kHz and low sensitivity below 100dB (like headphones).


----------



## rprodrigues

jogawag said:


> "Brand Name: FENGRU" is written at the SPECIFICATIONS of this page.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983216125.html



"15.4MM flat head MX500 speaker, high performance N52 strong magnetic, coil impedance 32 ohms, imported Japan Toray PET transparent polymer polymer film with copper ring, diaphragm deliberately easy to push and not sag damaged" 




furyossa said:


> What have you done with your MX500 driver? Some DIY kinds of stuff?
> I think that @robar has a 19-21kHz driver.
> You don't see so often DIY driver with freq. range 19-21kHz and low sensitivity below 100dB (like headphones).



Removed the coil from one side...


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> "15.4MM flat head MX500 speaker, high performance N52 strong magnetic, coil impedance 32 ohms, imported Japan Toray PET transparent polymer polymer film with copper ring, diaphragm deliberately easy to push and not sag damaged"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the spirit. First time or? 
It often happens to me when it comes to a good driver, and I don't have a any problem with a cheap one. Probably they use less glue


----------



## rprodrigues

furyossa said:


> That's the spirit. First time or?
> It often happens to me when it comes to a good driver, and I don't have a any problem with a cheap one. Probably they use less glue



Yeah. That was the first time... I was expecting that problem.

I will try some budge DIYs before any serious move...


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Yeah. That was the first time... I was expecting that problem.
> 
> I will try some budge DIYs before any serious move...


Are you read my last attempt to do the same. I don't care if is expensive as much as it sounds good and worth playing with it. I destroy the shell of BGVP DX5 (fortunately
driver works) but I don't care as much as the HE150 which is 5 times cheaper but is rare to find and it sounds IMHO 5 times better.
If you do not have the Pro version and you love good soundstage and sub-bass this is my recommendation.
It looks like the original 100%. I bought mine on Penon Audio but they are no longer in stock. The package is so poor, a plain carton box, and pouch.


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> What have you done with your MX500 driver? Some DIY kinds of stuff?
> I think that @robar has a 19-21kHz driver.
> You don't see so often DIY driver with freq. range 19-21kHz and low sensitivity below 100dB (like headphones).


I have 5 pairs  Balanced, slightly U-shaped sound, tight deep bass and extended treble. The sound is more dynamic with better extension compared to any other similarly priced model. Very easy to drive and don't distort. For me it's the price-performance champion.


----------



## dissociativity

got the DIY m2 pro parts indiviudally with the black gold driver, has to be the highest detail IEM I own so far, the 1more e1008 of course still beats it in some ways due to the peizio driver, but definitely good value, got the pk shell 120 ohm beryllium driver coming, let me know how those compare if you know.


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 14, 2020)

dissociativity said:


> got the DIY m2 pro parts indiviudally with the black gold driver, has to be the highest detail IEM I own so far, the 1more e1008 of course still beats it in some ways due to the peizio driver, but definitely good value, got the pk shell 120 ohm beryllium driver coming, let me know how those compare if you know.



I own the m2 pro with the black gold driver. It is indeed a good set among my other buds.


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 14, 2020)

robar said:


> I agree, I also have RY-C10 and it's nice, cklewis and NSC also has nice cheap cables. Anyways, I think we're talking in the wrong thread haha
> @rprodrigues
> The basic mx500 set and 19-21 driver creates a nice, tight, slightly analytical sound, and I believe you will be able to play around a lot with the vents and tuning foams with good success.  I have a new build with these drivers, based on the bundled type of mx500 and some vent mod, will share it soon. It has a fun, smoother, warmer sound with punchy midbass, very enjoyable as well.




My bad!
Sorry for the wrong thread.




furyossa said:


> You have studied this driver the best so far. I haven't had a chance to get it, but I believe it's really good.
> 
> If you didn't plan to build the cable from scratch RY Earphone Store has a nice collection of light and cheap cable for DIY.
> I own RY-c10, c11,c12,c15, and not have any problem for now.



I thought some cables could give any noticeable improvement when paired with cheap MX500 drivers.
Since I have some spare cheap SPC wires, cable dividers, and 2.5mm balanced connectors, I will build some cables instead.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> I thought some cables could give me noticeable improvements when paired with cheap MX500 drivers.
> Since I have some spare cheap SPC wires, cable dividers, and 2.5mm balanced connectors, I will build some cables instead.


It all depends on the quality (purity) of the copper, but it also causes a big increase in price.
On the other hand, no matter how good the wire is, you will hardly notice any difference with DIY drivers or any cheap driver.
As you already know silver has better conductivity than copper. 
Many suggest using copper cables if you want better bass performance and silver for the details.
For DIY drivers in most cases, the pure silver cable is a good choice but is rare to find it below $30.
Also, pure copper, OFC above 5N purity, or OCC is not cheap. So silver-plated copper is, in this case, the most favorable variant.
Now about balanced cables and earphones. balanced cables = less noise + power
As for the sound quality (noise reduction), again, it's hard to tell the difference, especially with low impedance drivers.
If you have a decent balanced AMP/DAC (2.5mm or 4.4mm output), they certainly benefit drivers with high impedance.
If you haven't build balanced cables yet try with 4-core first. 8-core ... skip


----------



## furyossa

Large selection of quality parts for cables
wires: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206
parts: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/4225047


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 15, 2020)

furyossa said:


> It all depends on the quality (purity) of the copper.... 8-core ... skip



Agree. A $ 30 cable paired with a $ 5 earbuds is not so reasonable.

About skipping 8-core cables, is it due to the thickness?




furyossa said:


> Large selection of quality parts for cables
> wires: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/5003206
> parts: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/4225047



Thank you!
Some good/cheap DIY parts for cables: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/900235423


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Agree. A $ 30 cable paired with a $ 5 earbuds is not so resonable.
> 
> About skipping 8-core cables, is it due to the thickness?
> Thank you!
> Some good/cheap DIY parts for cables: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/900235423



Pinouts of 2.5mm balanced plug have very little space for soldering. You have 8 wires that you need to solder on 4 pins, so you have to pre-connect two wires into one for each channel, which will increase their thickness and the contact surface itself, which makes soldering much more difficult, and you also have to take into account when connecting other parts that the inner wires do not touch or separate. IMHO it's more profitable to buy pre-made 8-core cable rather than lose nerve. 
And I'm not even going to talk about the 16-core cable, it's a nightmare. And I think it is overkill for earbuds.


----------



## furyossa

furyossa said:


> Pinouts of 2.5mm balanced plug have very little space for soldering. You have 8 wires that you need to solder on 4 pins, so you have to pre-connect two wires into one for each channel, which will increase their thickness and the contact surface itself, which makes soldering much more difficult, and you also have to take into account when connecting other parts that the inner wires do not touch or separate. IMHO it's more profitable to buy pre-made 8-core cable rather than lose nerve.
> And I'm not even going to talk about the 16-core cable, it's a nightmare. And I think it is overkill for earbuds.


More info about a different type of plugs https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-jacks-plugs-explained/


----------



## grooveriders (Nov 17, 2020)

Hi can you guys recommend me any drivers that is 15.4mm and is slightly warm with wide soundstage and good details.
I have tried the purple 600ohms driver, it is warm enough and soundstage is okay but the detail is lacking (plugged into my topping a90 amp so not under-amped for sure). Any other drivers would you guys recommend?
Looking for a jazzy/soul/funkish sound. but other recommendation is appreciated. thanks.

Edit/Addition: I have tried simphonio dragon 2+ and would love a similar driver with soundstage and detail but abit more bass.


----------



## furyossa

grooveriders said:


> Hi can you guys recommend me any drivers that is 15.4mm and is slightly warm with wide soundstage and good details.
> I have tried the purple 600ohms driver, it is warm enough and soundstage is okay but the detail is lacking (plugged into my topping a90 amp so not under-amped for sure). Any other drivers would you guys recommend?
> Looking for a jazzy/soul/funkish sound. but other recommendation is appreciated. thanks.
> 
> Edit/Addition: I have tried simphonio dragon 2+ and would love a similar driver with soundstage and detail but abit more bass.


You already tried one of the best DIY drivers. 400ohm graphene driver didn't have a low end as 600ohm beryllium. PK1 "red coat" is another good DIY driver (14.8mm)
but I doubt that could satisfy your needs. Simphonio dragon 2+ is Hi-End bud, I don't believe that any of these DIY drivers can compare to it in terms of sound quality.
Try to ask in Earbuds Round-up thread. You have a powerful amp and some high impedance buds will be a good choice. 
Have you perhaps looked at the new Fiio EM5 model?


----------



## grooveriders

furyossa said:


> You already tried one of the best DIY drivers. 400ohm graphene driver didn't have a low end as 600ohm beryllium. PK1 "red coat" is another good DIY driver (14.8mm)
> but I doubt that could satisfy your needs. Simphonio dragon 2+ is Hi-End bud, I don't believe that any of these DIY drivers can compare to it in terms of sound quality.
> Try to ask in Earbuds Round-up thread. You have a powerful amp and some high impedance buds will be a good choice.
> Have you perhaps looked at the new Fiio EM5 model?


Thankyou my next earbud is either ath cm2000ti or fiio em5. But I really like the process of making my own earbud, I will try the other drivers thankyou so much!!


----------



## furyossa (Nov 17, 2020)

grooveriders said:


> Thankyou my next earbud is either ath cm2000ti or fiio em5. But I really like the process of making my own earbud, I will try the other drivers thankyou so much!!


We all love that  Modding of buds is a really an interesting hobby for sure.
Unfortunately, DIY drivers are not produced as often as branded headphones. earphones. IEM's are another story 
If you decide to buy Fiio, don't forget to share some impressions


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Nov 18, 2020)

grooveriders said:


> Hi can you guys recommend me any drivers that is 15.4mm and is slightly warm with wide soundstage and good details.
> I have tried the purple 600ohms driver, it is warm enough and soundstage is okay but the detail is lacking (plugged into my topping a90 amp so not under-amped for sure). Any other drivers would you guys recommend?
> Looking for a jazzy/soul/funkish sound. but other recommendation is appreciated. thanks.
> 
> Edit/Addition: I have tried simphonio dragon 2+ and would love a similar driver with soundstage and detail but abit more bass.


130ohm beryllium, if you haven't tried the 400ohms are my favorite, the 600ohm had very little details up top(rolled off at 15kz) they are not bad but the 130ohms have the best highs

The 64 ohm ti for $12-15 are also really good in the lows, highs and mids


----------



## grooveriders

Themilkman46290 said:


> 130ohm beryllium, if you haven't tried the 400ohms are my favorite, the 600ohm had very little details up top(rolled off at 15kz) they are not bad but the 130ohms have the best highs
> 
> The 64 ohm ti for $12-15 are also really good in the lows, highs and mids



I have tried the 130ohm they are on the brighter side compared top the 600ohms but the bass and soundstage is lacking for me. The 400ohm that you are talking about is it the blue rim graphite driver? will also give the 64-ti driver wa try .Thankyou so much!





furyossa said:


> We all love that  Modding of buds is a really an interesting hobby for sure.
> Unfortunately, DIY drivers are not produced as often as branded headphones. earphones. IEM's are another story
> If you decide to buy Fiio, don't forget to share some impressions


 will do, infact if I get a chance to demo/audition the em5 I will give you an update.


----------



## Themilkman46290

grooveriders said:


> I have tried the 130ohm they are on the brighter side compared top the 600ohms but the bass and soundstage is lacking for me. The 400ohm that you are talking about is it the blue rim graphite driver? will also give the 64-ti driver wa try .Thankyou so much!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What kind of tuning foams/papers are you using? And are you trying any housing mods?
My 130ohms don't lack in bass but they are a bit more v shaped then my 400ohms


----------



## willyboyaudio (Nov 18, 2020)

Hi Friends, glad to see everyone still active building stuff and helping each other to get into this dangerous hobby. 
I bought this 300 Ohm driver, after thinking back and forth, finally decided to pull the trigger. I put it in the usual MX500 housing, removed the foam on the driver and put a new pair of foam on the housing. Used standard twisted pair cable, which according to the seller is a silver plated cable (SPC). Ran it through approx. 24 hours (not continuous) with pink noise, random music on my playlist.

My impression on this pair: It reminds me of a full range speaker. Very intact, very good texture from midbass to lower treble, but not much extension into the deep bass or the high treble. The overall sound is not offensive, I agree with @furyossa below. However, I feel they are lacking in resolution and clarity.

Do I:
1. Let it burn in some more, considering some say SPC needs 50-100 hours to sound best.
2. Do some kind of tuning, for example the cotton tuning on drivers holes, or any suggestion please feel free to share.
3. Change the cable to a good copper cable? I don't like the current SPC since it holds its shape too much, it gets tangly and overall not really nice.

Hehehe thanks a lot guys.



furyossa said:


> This is my most tortured earbuds 300ohm N52. Mids are recessed but still, the sound is very fun (V-shape) and specious with good bass and smooth treble.
> I love this set a lot, the bass guitar sounds amazing, drams also. When you increasing volume, vocals open up nicely, and besides that, the overall sound is not offensive.
> This is the main advantage of high impedance drivers. On LG7 only 50% volume is quite enough for normal listening but I still recommend a good amp


----------



## captione

I second the 64ohms TI driver. Insanely good. Easy to drive too.


----------



## grooveriders

Themilkman46290 said:


> What kind of tuning foams/papers are you using? And are you trying any housing mods?
> My 130ohms don't lack in bass but they are a bit more v shaped then my 400ohms


Its not lacking bass but I want more bads and more warmness in bass. The 130 ohm is more detailed than the 600 (maybe because of brightness?) to my ears but the soundstage is alot wider on the 600ohms.
the housing and foam pad I used is in the picture.


----------



## grooveriders

another question on the 130ohm driver. Theres soldering iron on the “lf” and “hf” what are those? Can I try to solder the wire to it? Or should I remove those solder or just leave them be? Thanks


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 18, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> ...
> 
> The 64 ohm ti for $12-15 are also really good in the lows, highs and mids




Are these the 64 ohm drivers you are talking about ?
www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001357620077.html


----------



## furyossa

willyboyaudio said:


> Hi Friends, glad to see everyone still active building stuff and helping each other to get into this dangerous hobby.
> I bought this 300 Ohm driver, after thinking back and forth, finally decided to pull the trigger. I put it in the usual MX500 housing, removed the foam on the driver and put a new pair of foam on the housing. Used standard twisted pair cable, which according to the seller is a silver plated cable (SPC). Ran it through approx. 24 hours (not continuous) with pink noise, random music on my playlist.
> 
> My impression on this pair: It reminds me of a full range speaker. Very intact, very good texture from midbass to lower treble, but not much extension into the deep bass or the high treble. The overall sound is not offensive, I agree with @furyossa below. However, I feel they are lacking in resolution and clarity.
> ...


This driver is not perfect but there is something about it that often brings me back to using it. Pure silver cable and the hard metallic shell will increase the clarity


----------



## furyossa (Nov 18, 2020)

grooveriders said:


> Its not lacking bass but I want more bads and more warmness in bass. The 130 ohm is more detailed than the 600 (maybe because of brightness?) to my ears but the soundstage is alot wider on the 600ohms.
> the housing and foam pad I used is in the picture.


Last night I tried HE150Pro with Sam L  compensation file. With his correction sound is more refined, mid-bass quantity is reduced a bit and mids are cleaner. The stock version already has fantastic sub-bass and soundstage.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Are these the 64 ohm drivers you are talking about ?
> www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001357620077.html


I think that he meant this model


----------



## furyossa (Nov 18, 2020)

grooveriders said:


> another question on the 130ohm driver. Theres soldering iron on the “lf” and “hf” what are those? Can I try to solder the wire to it? Or should I remove those solder or just leave them be? Thanks


Don't play with "8-packs".Seriously don’t touch anything, use only the first two, up at the top


----------



## galgofa (Nov 18, 2020)

Can you please recommend "undisputable" set with ali links to purchase (incl MMCX connectors if any) to build for first time ? Forget to add - considering balanced connection to Hiby R6 Pro,


----------



## furyossa

galgofa said:


> Can you please recommend "undisputable" set with ali links to purchase (incl MMCX connectors if any) to build for first time ? Forget to add - considering balanced connection to Hiby R6 Pro,


Can you elaborate a bit more?  Undisputable? Are you looking to build your model or?


----------



## galgofa

furyossa said:


> Can you elaborate a bit more? Undisputable? Are you looking to build your model or?



I mean, here a lot of different links to the sets you are experimenting with, i'm asking something which, let's say, must have while you consider your own build for first time. Or either already passed common confession and it is good quality and sound on the end.
Thanks.


----------



## Themilkman46290

grooveriders said:


> Its not lacking bass but I want more bads and more warmness in bass. The 130 ohm is more detailed than the 600 (maybe because of brightness?) to my ears but the soundstage is alot wider on the 600ohms.
> the housing and foam pad I used is in the picture.


I had those same shells before, tried many drivers through it, you are right, in those shells the 130 ohm didn't sound very good
If you still have the mx shells try the mx shells with a 0.8mm whole directly in the back and a full 7.1 foam


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> I had those same shells before, tried many drivers through it, you are right, in those shells the 130 ohm didn't sound very good
> If you still have the mx shells try the mx shells with a 0.8mm whole directly in the back and a full 7.1 foam


I agree.


grooveriders said:


> Its not lacking bass but I want more bads and more warmness in bass. The 130 ohm is more detailed than the 600 (maybe because of brightness?) to my ears but the soundstage is alot wider on the 600ohms.
> the housing and foam pad I used is in the picture.


Here some examples for back vent #1 and #2
Here are 3 experiments with a 130ohm driver. In "PART 1" I used the same shell as yours but black. PART 2 build is most suitable for this driver


----------



## furyossa

galgofa said:


> I mean, here a lot of different links to the sets you are experimenting with, i'm asking something which, let's say, must have while you consider your own build for first time. Or either already passed common confession and it is good quality and sound on the end.
> Thanks.


Try RY4S Plus and the 300ohm version. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html
If you want to make your own model then in the RY Earphone Store and NSC Audio Store you can find all parts for your build


----------



## Vannak

furyossa said:


> Try RY4S Plus and the 300ohm version. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html
> If you want to make your own model then in the RY Earphone Store and NSC Audio Store you can find all parts for your build


Again! Super thanks! 
I am new to this diy earbuds 
I do need these kind of links 🙏🙏🙏


----------



## galgofa

furyossa said:


> Try RY4S Plus and the 300ohm version. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33038850404.html
> If you want to make your own model then in the RY Earphone Store and NSC Audio Store you can find all parts for your build



Many thanks, i was looking on it, now will order.

M/t can you please point out where to read how to solder balance cable instead of usual one ? Is there special unit must be or any are possible to convert to 4,4 pentakom cable ?


----------



## furyossa (Jul 3, 2021)

Ok, here we go. Lately, the question has often been asked is where to find earphone or headphone parts for DIY?
Of course, you are welcome to suggest more links and I will update the list. But for now, let's sum up





*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DIY EARBUDS PARTS LIST <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

***For DIY Earphones parts* there are several stores on Aliexpress. with a very diverse offer.
Most of the stores have the same parts, so it's a good idea to check where the parts are cheaper.
_- NSC Audio Store
- JieTu Audio Store_
_- XinYue Audio Store_
_- DIY Earphone Tribe Store
- Chitty's Store
- CKLewis Audio Store
- __yuming Store_
_- __RY Earphone Store_

****For Plug and Connectors related to DIY cables *(or audio equipment)
_- __QYFANG Official Store_
_- __Zeatop Hendar Official Store_
_- __R Connector Buy Official Store_

_****For pre-made "fancy" cables*_
_- __XINHS HIFI Audio Store_
_- __KBEAR Official Store_
_- __NiceHCK Audio Store_
_- Wooeasy_Earphones_Store (all in one place) _

This can be an interesting and useful info
_Modular "AIO" Cable parts_
_Making Balanced Headphone Cables By Rob Robinette_
_DIY and Mods_
_Balanced vs Unbalanced Audio Connections_
_Headphone Jack and Plugs: Everything You Need to Know_
_Pinouts for DIY_
_Soldering TIPS_


----------



## rprodrigues

furyossa said:


> Ok, here we go. Lately, the question has often been asked is where to find earphone or headphone parts for DIY?
> Of course, you are welcome to suggest more links and I will update the list. But for now, to sum up
> 
> ****For DIY Earphones parts* there are several stores on Aliexpress. with a very diverse offer.
> ...




I love you.


----------



## furyossa

galgofa said:


> Many thanks, i was looking on it, now will order.
> 
> M/t can you please point out where to read how to solder balance cable instead of usual one ? Is there special unit must be or any are possible to convert to 4,4 pentakom cable ?





rprodrigues said:


> I love you.


     
you welcome


----------



## Themilkman46290

rprodrigues said:


> Are these the 64 ohm drivers you are talking about ?
> www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001357620077.html


Yes those are the ones I have, so far they are my third favorite, after the 400 and 130 ohm


----------



## furyossa (Nov 18, 2020)

galgofa said:


> Many thanks, i was looking on it, now will order.
> 
> M/t can you please point out where to read how to solder balance cable instead of usual one ? Is there special unit must be or any are possible to convert to 4,4 pentakom cable ?


You need a multimeter to check the pinouts on both sides. I didn't build any 4.4mm balanced cable maybe someone can post the schematic for the cable. I updated my previous post with some useful info


----------



## jeejack (Nov 18, 2020)

Delete


----------



## Themilkman46290

grooveriders said:


> I have tried the 130ohm they are on the brighter side compared top the 600ohms but the bass and soundstage is lacking for me. The 400ohm that you are talking about is it the blue rim graphite driver? will also give the 64-ti driver wa try .Thankyou so much!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Try this mod, I did something similar with my metal shells and the 130ohm drivers, best sound I found with this combo


furyossa said:


> Love the type of shell of your B&W edition earbuds. I bought a silver red and blue variant a while back. For now, only silver variant is combined with
> a handmade wooden piece.
> 
> 
> ...





furyossa said:


> Nope. By enlarging inner space you will reduce mid-high because the reflection of the sound wave is not the same, it's slower. Also, you will get a more spacious sound.
> Resonance in the wood chamber is also present which gives a little flavor to the sound signature. In short original shell simulate "closed-back" sound and modded
> (with large cavity) "open-back" sound


----------



## dissociativity

I've been considering trying to make a rose masya/mojito clone type dual dynamic driver earbud, how did you get this wooden shell part?
did you make it yourself, or can I find it somewhere?


----------



## furyossa

dissociativity said:


> I've been considering trying to make a rose masya/mojito clone type dual dynamic driver earbud, how did you get this wooden shell part?
> did you make it yourself, or can I find it somewhere?


Handmade. 
Great idea. I planed to do something similar but with smaller drivers. Do u have an idea how Mojito, Masya, or Maria looks inside?
I saw somewhere section of Masya but I can't remember where? For Mojito, they change the angle of the front driver to get better sound.
Maria, who knows? It's too expensive to play with it
 For shell prototype, you can try with polymer clay


----------



## Vannak

furyossa said:


> Ok, here we go. Lately, the question has often been asked is where to find earphone or headphone parts for DIY?
> Of course, you are welcome to suggest more links and I will update the list. But for now, let's sum up
> 
> ****For DIY Earphones parts* there are several stores on Aliexpress. with a very diverse offer.
> ...


Nice! 🙏


----------



## Themilkman46290

dissociativity said:


> I've been considering trying to make a rose masya/mojito clone type dual dynamic driver earbud, how did you get this wooden shell part?
> did you make it yourself, or can I find it somewhere?


I have seen some different ideas on some of the Asian earbud groups, I remember seeing what seemed like acrylic tubing, I maybe wrong, but acrylic is fairly easy to manipulate, bends with heat and you can use wood worker tools on it..
Cool idea 
The 130ohm "abs" are for low freq and high freq adjustment (using a capacitor and resistor) so it maybe a good place to start, but I don't know where you would get the second driver to match it....


----------



## dissociativity

So I've soldered together my 120ohm berylium 14.8mm pk shell earbud, should I just burn it in or should I find some foam to cover the vent with to tune it a bit too?


----------



## jogawag (Nov 20, 2020)

I made the old variant docomo shell compatible with mmcx and replaced the driver with the well-established new variant docomo's, which is told to be the same as Shozy Cygnus/BK.
The bass was much amplified more than in the original new variant of docomo shell, probably because of the thick stem of the shell.


----------



## rprodrigues

@jogawag 
Where did you get the  Docomo with Shozy Cygnus/BK drivers?


----------



## jogawag (Nov 20, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> @jogawag
> Where did you get the  Docomo with Shozy Cygnus/BK drivers?



I got the docomo earbuds (drivers) at my country's flea market on the Internet for about $8. I'm always looking for them, but they are not listed these days because they're accessories for old 2006 cell phone...


----------



## furyossa

dissociativity said:


> So I've soldered together my 120ohm berylium 14.8mm pk shell earbud, should I just burn it in or should I find some foam to cover the vent with to tune it a bit too?


Both.


----------



## willyboyaudio

furyossa said:


> This driver is not perfect but there is something about it that often brings me back to using it. Pure silver cable and the hard metallic shell will increase the clarity


Thanks @furyossa For now I let it burn in some more, and it is improving. I'll keep your advise in case I got the itch to mod it in the future. 
Could it be the correct "timbre" and the natural mids that make it easy to listen? As I said, in the MX500 housing it reminds me of a single driver, full-range speaker. 
Tag: 300 Ohm N52


furyossa said:


> Love the type of shell of your B&W edition earbuds. I bought a silver red and blue variant a while back. For now, only silver variant is combined with
> a handmade wooden piece.





furyossa said:


> Nope. By enlarging inner space you will reduce mid-high because the reflection of the sound wave is not the same, it's slower. Also, you will get a more spacious sound.
> Resonance in the wood chamber is also present which gives a little flavor to the sound signature. In short original shell simulate "closed-back" sound and modded
> (with large cavity) "open-back" sound


Did you ever post how you bore out the wooden piece? Was it by lathe? Sorry if you've posted here, I've searched but couldn't find a specific mention.
What will be the effect if the chamber is not conical shape, say, a straight cylinder? By saying "enlarging the inner space reduces mid high" does it mean this tuning benefits treble-heavy drivers, and bass-heavy drivers will have even less treble? I'm thinking of another project in the future, not using 130 Ohm Beryllium driver.
Thanks for sharing, my friend.
Tag: wood, wooden


----------



## SiggyFraud

Could someone verify, whether these 15.4mm drivers (1, 2)  are any good for a first 150 Ohm build? I have a feeling they might be the same drivers used in FAAEAL Rosemary.
I might be wrong of course, but if they're good anyway I might as well give them a try. Thanks!


----------



## furyossa (Nov 19, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> Thanks @furyossa For now I let it burn in some more, and it is improving. I'll keep your advise in case I got the itch to mod it in the future.
> Could it be the correct "timbre" and the natural mids that make it easy to listen? As I said, in the MX500 housing it reminds me of a single driver, full-range speaker.
> Tag: 300 Ohm N52
> 
> ...


I didn't post how I build that model. I use Electric Mini Drill for the inner hole and sandpaper to shape the outside. You can find it in a local hardware store probably.
The inner cavity will be cylindrical. On the drawing in the previous post, inner walls follow the shape of outside the wall. This is good only if you have hardwood otherwise the shell will crack. And by hardwood, I mean "stabilized wood".


----------



## furyossa

SiggyFraud said:


> Could someone verify, whether these 15.4mm drivers (1, 2)  are any good for a first 150 Ohm build? I have a feeling they might be the same drivers used in FAAEAL Rosemary.
> I might be wrong of course, but if they're good anyway I might as well give them a try. Thanks!


Ask the seller if this is the original HE150ohm. If is not, then probably uses the same driver that you show, but judging by the price I think it's original
I have already talked about this model many times. Sub-bass is remarkable also soundstage


----------



## robar (Nov 21, 2020)

SiggyFraud said:


> Could someone verify, whether these 15.4mm drivers (1, 2)  are any good for a first 150 Ohm build? I have a feeling they might be the same drivers used in FAAEAL Rosemary.
> I might be wrong of course, but if they're good anyway I might as well give them a try. Thanks!


I have Rosemary, and the 19-21 32ohm driver is much better, like 1-2 tiers higher. It's also half the price (of the mentioned 150ohm driver), you can literally buy 2 pairs of 19-21 for the price. Better extension both ways, more details, more dynamic etc. I think subwoof3r had the diy 150ohm drivers and had similar opinion. I'm not sure if the Rosemary's driver is the same as the diy driver though, but it definitely looks extremely similar.


----------



## SiggyFraud

robar said:


> I have Rosemary, and the 19-21 32ohm driver is much better, like 1-2 tiers higher. It's also half the price, you can literally buy 2 pairs of 19-21 for the price. Better extension both ways, more details, more dynamic etc. I think subwoofer had the diy 150ohm drivers and had similar opinion. I'm not sure if the Rosemary's driver is the same as the diy driver though, but it definitely looks extremely similar.


Could you share a link for the said drivers? So far, out of the ones I've tested, these are my favourites. I just wanted to give some 150 Ohm drivers a try, since I never heard them.


----------



## rprodrigues

SiggyFraud said:


> Could you share a link for the said drivers? So far, out of the ones I've tested, these are my favourites. I just wanted to give some 150 Ohm drivers a try, since I never heard them.



It seems they are the ones you shared.


----------



## SiggyFraud

rprodrigues said:


> It seems they are the ones you shared.


Yeah, I thought as much. If memory serves me well, I think @robar was the one who recommended them. He was right, they're great!


----------



## robar

SiggyFraud said:


> Yeah, I thought as much. If memory serves me well, I think @robar was the one who recommended them. He was right, they're great!


Yep, I was the first one to try this model almost a year ago.  Still my favorite, I have 3 builds plus two more planned for the close future.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Yep, I was the first one to try this model almost a year ago.  Still my favorite, I have 3 builds plus two more planned for the close future.


I post mine 3 experiments with 130ohm Bery but now is your turn with 19-21kHz


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 19, 2020)

Anyone got anything this last 11.11 sale?

I ordered a couple pairs of drivers and another X12 ultra which I plan to convert from earpod/airpod style driver to either the 40Ω Ti or N55 64Ω to see how well it drives it.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 20, 2020)

SiggyFraud said:


> Could you share a link for the said drivers? So far, out of the ones I've tested, these are my favourites. I just wanted to give some 150 Ohm drivers a try, since I never heard them.


Drivers with an impedance around 150ohm are for me personally a sweet spot. Pk1 "red film" 150ohm is the DIY king for now but is rare to find only the driver
Unfortunately, there is not a large selection of these drivers for DIY
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983256142.html (most likely the same driver was used for Rosemary)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1666800924.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32976644891.html (this is the same https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32971170234.html)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001737060283.html
I didn't have a chance to use these but it is certain that they were taken from some branded earphones

And as for branded earphones, this is the current situation
- HE150ohm
- YINMAN 150ohm (OG and NEW)
- TY HI-Z F150TS/150S/150 / Balanced / TY HI-Z HP-150
- TONEKING TO180
- FAAEAL Rosemary
- Smabat ST-10s (Gold)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  I will cross the line here 
- K's earphone Bell-We
- Astrotec Lyra Collection
- ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE / ShoonTH ESEP-01BU
- SimPhonio Dragon D3
- YUIN OK1 /  YUIN PK1

BTW if someone owns one of these, please share your impression


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Anyone got anything this last 11.11 sale?
> 
> I ordered a couple pairs of drivers and another X12 ultra which I plan to convert from earpod/airpod style driver to either the 40Ω Ti or N55 64Ω to see how well it drives it.


I will share only the photo which will explain everything. This has been going on since March and is mostly for every product


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> I will share only the photo which will explain everything. This has been going on since March and is mostly for every product



Ouch. Still hasn't come down then.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Ouch. Still hasn't come down then.


Nope. 
I see you're planning to build some DIY TWS. Sabbat x12 ultra is a TWS IEM, right?


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Nope.
> I see you're planning to build some DIY TWS. Sabbat x12 ultra is a TWS IEM, right?



Yep. DIY earbud TWS. 

I've already done it on the older X12 Pro model (non Qualcomm chip). The older model doesn't seem to have near the output of the newer one, so I'm hopeful it will work well with slightly higher impedance drivers (32Ω vs 40Ω or 64Ω)


32 ohm bass driver from earphone tribe store.



Also tried my original Yuin PK2 drivers


----------



## furyossa (Nov 19, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Yep. DIY earbud TWS.
> 
> I've already done it on the older X12 Pro model (non Qualcomm chip). The older model doesn't seem to have near the output of the newer one, so I'm hopeful it will work well with slightly higher impedance drivers (32Ω vs 40Ω or 64Ω)
> 
> ...


Wow, I have never seen that variant. Nice work, man. Very interesting concept.
Are you build that 14.8mm part (where goes driver ) over IEM housing?
You need to sell that patent to Smabat to make modular drivers ( Smabat ST - 11 - IEMbuds)


----------



## Slater

furyossa said:


> Pinouts of 2.5mm balanced plug have very little space for soldering. You have 8 wires that you need to solder on 4 pins, so you have to pre-connect two wires into one for each channel, which will increase their thickness and the contact surface itself, which makes soldering much more difficult, and you also have to take into account when connecting other parts that the inner wires do not touch or separate. IMHO it's more profitable to buy pre-made 8-core cable rather than lose nerve.
> And I'm not even going to talk about the 16-core cable, it's a nightmare. And I think it is overkill for earbuds.



Agree 100%.

Except in rare cases, I choose to buy a premade cable over DIY every time!

When I have to do my own cables, I try and go with 4 core cables. As @furyossa pointed out 8 core cables are a PITA to solder, and 16 core cables are fugetaboutit!


----------



## furyossa

Slater said:


> Agree 100%.
> 
> Except in rare cases, I choose to buy a premade cable over DIY every time!
> 
> When I have to do my own cables, I try and go with 4 core cables. As @furyossa pointed out 8 core cables are a PITA to solder, and 16 core cables are fugetaboutit!


I'm just telling the truth  
But I would rather solder 2.5mm with 8- cores than the damn MMCX with 4-core. They make me ...


----------



## willyboyaudio (Nov 20, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> Thanks @furyossa For now I let it burn in some more, and it is improving. I'll keep your advise in case I got the itch to mod it in the future.
> Could it be the correct "timbre" and the natural mids that make it easy to listen? As I said, in the MX500 housing it reminds me of a single driver, full-range speaker.
> Tag: 300 Ohm N52


*UPDATE*: Sorry I can't stand (that) silver plated cable with the 300 Ohm N52 driver in MX500 housing. As with many things audio, synergy and finding a good combo is important. So, I decided to put a good copper wire, advertised as 160 strand copper (maybe 40 per wire, 160 for left-right-positive-negative)
The result immediately made me smile   Much better bass, much fuller sound, and great fidelity. I mean now I'm catching the words of some songs I never cared to learn the lyrics of. And for a non-native English speaker, this is a huge deal. This is much more enjoyable now.
If I may summarize, for 300 Ohm N52 driver:
If using standard plastic housing, use copper cable. If using metal housing (especially with the @furyossa wooden chamber mod) use pure silver cable. Silver plated cable (in my limited experience) is not a good option with this driver.



furyossa said:


> I didn't post how I build that model. I use Electric Mini Drill for the inner hole and sandpaper to shape the outside. You can find it in a local hardware store probably.
> The inner cavity will be cylindrical. On the drawing in the previous post, inner walls follow the shape of outside the wall. This is good only if you have hardwood otherwise the shell will crack. And by hardwood, I mean "stabilized wood".


Well noted with thanks. Very inspiring. Let me go to my cave and see what I come up with..



robar said:


> I have Rosemary, and the 19-21 32ohm driver is much better, like 1-2 tiers higher. It's also half the price, you can literally buy 2 pairs of 19-21 for the price. Better extension both ways, more details, more dynamic etc. I think subwoofer had the diy 150ohm drivers and had similar opinion. I'm not sure if the Rosemary's driver is the same as the diy driver though, but it definitely looks extremely similar.


Hi @robar, I think a while ago you were also looking at the 300 Ohm N52 driver. Hope my impressions help with your decision. Sort of giving back to the community, since you guys have shared a lot, from which I benefit also.
I also had some interest in the 150 Ohm Blue Blob, but after listening to the 300 Ohm, and having owned the 19-21 32 Ohm, my interest in that driver diminished by a lot. Not saying bad about it necessarily, I just feel I better put my money elsewhere. FWIW, the 300 Ohm N52 also have blue blob, similar marking and solder trace, that make me believe they may come from the same factory, and same generation of drivers.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Wow, I have never seen that variant. Nice work, man. Very interesting concept.
> Are you build that 14.8mm part (where goes driver ) over IEM housing?
> You need to sell that patent to Smabat to make modular drivers ( Smabat ST - 11 - IEMbuds)



Nah, nothing really special done for them. Covers are held on with glue.

The original drivers are 14.2mm but have a raised lip that fits the I.D. of the inside of 14.8mm driver covers. The edge that goes around lip on the outside did need some smoothing/filing, so it wouldn't cause hotspots or be uncomfortable as it extended beyond the covers.


----------



## SiggyFraud

furyossa said:


> Drivers with an impedance around 150ohm are for me personally a sweet spot. Pk1 "red film" 150ohm is the DIY king for now but is rare to find only the driver
> Unfortunately, there is not a large selection of these drivers for DIY
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983256142.html (most likely the same driver was used for Rosemary)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1666800924.html
> ...


Thanks a ton for taking the time! This is really helpful.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 20, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Nah, nothing really special done for them. Covers are held on with glue.
> 
> The original drivers are 14.2mm but have a raised lip that fits the I.D. of the inside of 14.8mm driver covers. The edge that goes around lip on the outside did need some smoothing/filing, so it wouldn't cause hotspots or be uncomfortable as it extended beyond the covers.


I'm serious. This is a very innovative concept. There are a lot of people who can't stand earbuds and IEM because of the discomfort caused by rubber eartips and pressure by deep insertion, Also, there are some who don't like cables and mobile devices are slowly losing support by 3.5mm output.
It would be great to come up with a modular design for the inserts, which would be mounted on the IEM housing.
and these inserts would accept drivers with a diameter of 10 -14.8mm.


----------



## rprodrigues

@willyboyaudio

Would you mind sharing links for both the 300 ohm driver and the copper cable you used? 

Are the following drivers the ones you used?
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqxzTWN


----------



## furyossa (Nov 20, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> @willyboyaudio
> 
> Would you mind sharing links for both the 300 ohm driver and the copper cable you used?
> 
> ...


"There can be only one" (a term from Highlander movie) 300ohm driver on Ali (white or black cover).  Here is the best price
As for the cable: I own one from the first link (4 core ie. 3 wires + shield) and I use it for balanced 2.5mm cable. Very good quality
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32612774761.html (same cable here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32820310160.html)
Pre-made cable (3-core ie 2 wires + shield) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000272863965.html and https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000621754098.html
This is the Furukawa cable, very good quality. I use it for my PK1 "red film". It's a little tighter than the previous one, but the wire is better
This is the pre-made version


----------



## furyossa (Nov 20, 2020)

furyossa said:


> "There can be only one" (a term from Highlander movie) 300ohm driver on Ali (white or black cover).  Here is the best price
> For the cable. I own one from the first link (4 core ie. 3 wires + shield) and I use it for balanced 2.5mm cable. Very good quality
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32612774761.html (same cable here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32820310160.html)
> Pre-made cable (3-core ie 2 wires + shield) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000272863965.html and https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000621754098.html
> ...


I just find my photos for balanced cable.
These are cable parts




This cable has 3 wires (red, green, and blue) and shield (copper). Pre-solder one wire with shield and other two together because U need only two wires, one for Left and one for Right channel




And this is how it looks. I added also a chin slider but this is not important


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 20, 2020)

furyossa said:


> "There can be only one" (a term from Highlander movie) 300ohm driver on Ali (white or black cover).  Here is the best price
> As for the cable: I own one from the first link (4 core ie. 3 wires + shield) ...




The cheaper listing mark the drivers as s300.

I wonder if they are the same used in Fengru White Lotus s300 or even in the Nicehck k300.
Any ideia?



furyossa said:


> I just find my images for balanced cable.



What a beautitul cable!
Is it soft or stiff?

Thank you for sharing.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> The cheaper listing mark the drivers as s300.
> 
> I wonder if they are the same used on Fengru While Lotus s300 on even on the Nicehck k300.
> Any ideia?
> ...


See by yourself. At the top is Furukawa cable, a bit thinner and stiffer but with it, I have a cleaner sound
And below is "tiger" cable  Better looking and softer cable for sure. I currently have a problem with one side, The wire in the MMCX housing probably came off.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> The cheaper listing mark the drivers as s300.
> I wonder if they are the same used in Fengru White Lotus s300 or even in the Nicehck k300.
> Any ideia?


Post the links for these models


----------



## rprodrigues

furyossa said:


> Post the links for these models



FENGRU Diy White lotus S300
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000925819488.html
1. Product Name: FENGRU Diy White lotus S300 300ohm high impedance earbud     
 2. Model: S300
 3. Type: In-ear flat head earphone earbud                         
 5. Impedance: 300Ω
 6. Earphone sensitivity: 109dB/mW
 7. Frequency range: 20-20000Hz

NICEHCK K's Earphone K300
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32783590564.html
1. Product Name:  NICEHCK  K's Earphone K300 300ohm hinh impedanc  earbud 
2. Model: K's Earphone K300 
3. Type: In-ear flat head earphone earbud 
5. Impedance: 300Ω
6. Earphone sensitivity: 108dB/mW 
7. Frequency range: 15-25000Hz


300 Ohm drivers from NSC Store
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32966949381.html
Model: S300 black
Type: dynamic
Rated power: 0.05 W
Rated resistance: 300 ohm
Frequency range: 20-20000 KHZ
Sensitivity: 108 dB/W


----------



## furyossa (Dec 8, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> FENGRU Diy White lotus S300
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000925819488.html
> 1. Product Name: FENGRU Diy White lotus S300 300ohm high impedance earbud
> 2. Model: S300
> ...



All of these use the same driver 300ohm N52 magnet. K's F-Range 15-25kHz is a debatable question. I don't think so.
I have K's 300ohm which I didn't like because It sounds hollow at first. They use only a white horseshoe filter at the back of the driver. I broke the driver by mistake.
I bought then DIY 300ohm N52 which I've tortured this driver so much, changed the housings, solder many cables, and it still works.
You've already seen where the driver ended up. This bud has solid mid-bass.
The drum and bass guitar sounds ok. L-shape sound. Maybe you don't like it (requires more tuning than others)


----------



## willyboyaudio (Nov 21, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> @willyboyaudio
> 
> Would you mind sharing links for both the 300 ohm driver and the copper cable you used?
> 
> ...


Sure, I can confirm that @furyossa has posted the correct items below. Please note I didn't get them from AliExpress, so I can't comment on the sellers. Hope that helps. 


furyossa said:


> 300ohm driver on Ali (white or black cover).  Here is the best price
> Pre-made cable (3-core ie 2 wires + shield) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000272863965.html


Thank you my friend. I really like this tiger cable, very well behaving. Easy to solder, very soft and pliable, and quite affordable.


----------



## furyossa

willyboyaudio said:


> Thank you my friend. I really like this tiger cable, very well behaving. Easy to solder, very soft and pliable, and quite affordable.


Yup. 3 core is easy to solder. The shield is probably cut at the top and you have 2 wires only. Also, you solder wires on the driver directly. 4- core is another story especially when you try to solder two thick wires onto MMCX pins and roll on MMCX housing without breaking the connection


----------



## jogawag (Nov 21, 2020)

furyossa said:


> See by yourself. At the top is Furukawa cable, a bit thinner and stiffer but with it, I have a cleaner sound
> And below is "tiger" cable  Better looking and softer cable for sure. I currently have a problem with one side, The wire in the MMCX housing probably came off.


The earbuds in that picture have the same shell as Shozy XB, don't they?
I think that this shell has the ability to amplify the bass of a 14.8mm driver, please tell me which part of the shell's shape it depends on.


----------



## rprodrigues

furyossa said:


> All of these use the same driver 300ohm N52 magnet. K's F-Range 15-25kHz is a debatable question. I don't think so.
> I have K's 300ohm which I didn't like because It sounds hollow at first. They use only a white horseshoe filter at the back of the driver. I broke the driver by mistake.
> I bought then DIY 300ohm N52 which I've tortured this driver so much, changed the housings, solder many cables, and it's still working.
> You've already seen where the driver ended up. This bud has solid mid-bass.
> The drum and bass guitar sounds ok. L-shape sound. Maybe you don't like it (requires more tuning than others)




I really thought that such drivers had a good high extension. It's a pity. 
I suppose you use them with a proper amp, right?


----------



## furyossa (Nov 21, 2020)

jogawag said:


> The earbuds in that picture have the same shell as Shozy XB, don't they?
> I think that this shell has the ability to amplify the bass of a 14.8mm driver, please tell me which part of the shell's shape it depends on.


This DOCOMO shells, as for the look itself, definitely does not belong to the group of the most beautiful designs but in terms of ergonomics, I personally have not found a better model so far. Also, the inner cavity is well designed.
I wish there was a larger selection of 14.8mm drivers then these shells would probably reach the popularity of MX500 shells
I will borrow the image from your post.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> I really thought that such drivers had a good high extension. It's a pity.
> I suppose you use them with a proper amp, right?


Yes I use 


rprodrigues said:


> I really thought that such drivers had a good high extension. It's a pity.
> I suppose you use them with a proper amp, right?


yes, I use them only with a proper DAC/AMP combo + EQ. Of all the high impedance drivers in my collection, this is one of the drivers that have the worst SQ.
But what’s good is that it poses the biggest challenge for tuning. If you like to play with DIY stuff this is THE "chosen one" driver. I recommend it just for that reason
What do you currently have in your earphone collection? I saw somewhere that you posted a few pairs but I can't remember where.
In the "About" section of your account, you have only a list of headphones.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 21, 2020)

furyossa said:


> This DOCOMO shells, as for the look itself, this shell definitely does not belong to the group of the most beautiful designs but in terms of ergonomics, I personally have not found a better model so far. Also, the inner cavity is well designed.
> I wish there was a larger selection of 14.8mm drivers then these shells would probably reach the popularity of MX500 shells
> I will borrow the image from your post.


If you have spare Docomo shells you can try to extend the bass port by adding a small piece of tube (isolation tube of electrical wire).


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 21, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Yes I use
> 
> yes, I use them only with a proper DAC/AMP combo + EQ. Of all the high impedance drivers in my collection, this is one of the drivers that have the worst SQ.
> But what’s good is that it poses the biggest challenge for tuning. If you like to play with DIY stuff this is THE "chosen one" driver. I recommend it just for that reason
> ...



Wait a minute... are you and @willyboyaudio talking about the same N52 300 Ohm driver?  He praises the N52.
By the way:
- (1) someone here described the K's K300 the same way you did regarding the 'cavernous' effect (here).
- (2) from what I read some posts back, I thought the N52 would have a sound as good as the Tri I3 (smooth L-shaped, a sort of speaker-like sound. I like that despite the lack of treble).

What other high impedance drives would you suggest (I've ordered the TO400 , graphene)?

Currently, I've ordered '19-21' 32 Ohm drivers for some DIY buds but I also would like to play with some higher impedance ones, so that is why I'm interessed in the N52 300 Ohm driver. I might also order a pair of 14.8mm 64 Ohm TI  drivers  due to their fit (small ears here).

About my gear, I've updated my profile. Take a read, please.
Besides them, I also ordered  TO400, Shozy XB,  EA buds, Qian39, a Docomo, a PK2s, and a PK2 with 150 Ohm red film drivers.

Before you ask, YES, I'm compulsive.


----------



## furyossa

I told you, that is the same driver as K's300. @cenizas described it better. It's a mid-bass-centric driver with a 'cavernous' effect. In the wooden shell, this effect is very pronounced. Definitely is not for every type of music.
It's difficult to compare planar with the dynamic driver also IEM and Earbud. 
With IEM's and many headphones, you don't have that many choices for tuning. Mostly "you have what you got". Of course, you can change the ear tips/earpads, cable,
use EQ and that's it. Modding is a big risk and requires special equipment for testing.
With earbuds, it's a much more interesting story, you can play all day long  
The only downside is poor sound insulation, it requires higher volume which is not good for hearing. That's why I avoid using them outside as much as possible.

Wow man, you own a very nice collection. I see that you really like music, and you're a fan of different audio devices and not only headphones. This is nice .


----------



## robar

rprodrigues said:


> Besides them, I also ordered  TO400, Shozy XB,  EA buds, Qian39, a Docomo, a PK2s, and a PK2 with 150 Ohm red film drivers.
> Before you ask, YES, I'm compulsive.


Wow what an order  I successfully replaced the qian39 with my mx760 build for sleeping, so it's finally free for modding. I havent opened up the qian yet, but it's said to be very easy to tune, the shape is very comfortable and it's very likely to be standard 14.8mm. Do you plan to upgrade drivers, cables and tuning? It could be a pretty cool project, unfortunately I dont have any suitable speakers for it at the moment


----------



## furyossa (Nov 21, 2020)

Hey guys
I was just wondering why we always call these DIY drivers by impedance or frequency range. It's a little funny.
I think they really deserve a better nickname. What do you think about that?
We have PK 14.8mm 150ohm. Nickname "*Red Film*" (red coat (film) on the diaphragm) is appropriate.
Now, 600onm Beryllium. I often call it "*Bery*" but not only because of Beryllium. It reminds me of Barry White (big ie huge impedance) 
300ohm N52, the previously mentioned driver. This driver, for sure, it must be called "*Highlander*". This is a "savage" driver that can withstand torture and lasts for quite a long time 
Ok for the rest of the DIY lineup you decide. This is just the beginning


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Wow what an order


I want Santa to bring me a similar delivery as a gift


----------



## rprodrigues

robar said:


> Wow what an order  I successfully replaced the qian39 with my mx760 build for sleeping, so it's finally free for modding. I havent opened up the qian yet, but it's said to be very easy to tune, the shape is very comfortable and it's very likely to be standard 14.8mm. Do you plan to upgrade drivers, cables and tuning? It could be a pretty cool project, unfortunately I dont have any suitable speakers for it at the moment



Since I am pretty new to this hobby, It will take some time until I get used to their sound signatures. After that, I will then decide what ones I may/should upgrade. Anyway, a cable upgrade for the qian39 seems to be a good starting point...


----------



## jogawag

robar said:


> Wow what an order  I successfully replaced the qian39 with my mx760 build for sleeping, so it's finally free for modding. I havent opened up the qian yet, but it's said to be very easy to tune, the shape is very comfortable and it's very likely to be standard 14.8mm. Do you plan to upgrade drivers, cables and tuning? It could be a pretty cool project, unfortunately I dont have any suitable speakers for it at the moment





rprodrigues said:


> Since I am pretty new to this hobby, It will take some time until I get used to their sound signatures. After that, I will then decide what ones I may/should upgrade. Anyway, a cable upgrade for the qian39 seems to be a good starting point...



The Qian39 shape is indeed very comfortable.
However, I tried to remove the driver which is glued from the shell of Qian39 by using a sharp Xacto blade according to the teachings of @DBaldock9, but the shell is quite thin and a part of it was torn off. And I tried to put the driver of docomo to the shell, but he diameter of the shell was too big to fit well. Then I tried to reduce the diameter of the shell, but it failed because the shell was too thin.

You should keep in mind that the shell is quite thin.


----------



## robar

rprodrigues said:


> Since I am pretty new to this hobby, It will take some time until I get used to their sound signatures. After that, I will then decide what ones I may/should upgrade. Anyway, a cable upgrade for the qian39 seems to be a good starting point...


Well, qian39 is pretty low end in terms of SQ, it's only suitable for casual use but the shell is pretty nice. Even a vido is a better. Signature is midcentric, warm, punchy, dark, somewhat muffled, but pleasant for youtube and similar. Probably easy to tighten up by adding a bit more foam, I will try it shortly. For me that simple  tpe cable is pretty sturdy btw, I used it for more than one year almost daily, often fell asleep with it in my ears and still works perfectly


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Well, qian39 is pretty low end in terms of SQ, it's only suitable for casual use but the shell is pretty nice. Even a vido is a better. Signature is midcentric, warm, punchy, dark, somewhat muffled, but pleasant for youtube and similar. Probably easy to tighten up by adding a bit more foam, I will try it shortly. For me that simple  tpe cable is pretty sturdy btw, I used it for more than one year almost daily, often fell asleep with it in my ears and still works perfectly


I saw that you own  Panasonic RP-HV095E. I find that model and RP-HV154E-K (upgraded driver) in the local store for around $5. How it sounds and is it good for modding.


----------



## robar (Nov 21, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I saw that you own  Panasonic RP-HV095E. I find that model and RP-HV154E-K (upgraded driver) in the local store for around $5. How it sounds and is it good for modding.


The panasonic is terrible, one of the worst I've heard period  But the shell is very comfy and its compatible with large style 14.8mm cover like b40. I ruined my shells sadly but it could be an interesting mod. It definitely needs more vents than stock. Glue is very tight but it can be opened. Inside is empty, no tuning foam whatsoever, very easy to recable


----------



## grooveriders

furyossa said:


> Hey guys
> I was just wondering why we always call these DIY drivers by impedance or frequency range. It's a little funny.
> I think they really deserve a better nickname. What do you think about that?
> We have PK 14.8mm 150ohm. Nickname "*Red Film*" (red coat (film) on the diaphragm) is appropriate.
> ...


Do you know where I can get the pk1 150 ohm red coating? everyseller seems to be out of stock


----------



## furyossa

grooveriders said:


> Do you know where I can get the pk1 150 ohm red coating? everyseller seems to be out of stock


Nope. Only 32ohm version is available for now. Until recently, they had several pre-made models with mmcx, but they are gone too


----------



## furyossa (Nov 21, 2020)

robar said:


> The panasonic is terrible, one of the worst I've heard period  But the shell is very comfy and its compatible with large style 14.8mm cover like b40. I ruined my shells sadly but it could be an interesting mod. It definitely needs more vents than stock. Glue is very tight but it can be opened. Inside is empty, no tuning foam whatsoever, very easy to recable


That's what I thought. I liked the shells at first glance  The plastic is good or ultra-cheap?
These two (1 & 2) are probably similar sorry. I just wonder what kind of "trash" they put inside.
But you have to admit that these black shells look really sexy


----------



## vygas

grooveriders said:


> Do you know where I can get the pk1 150 ohm red coating? everyseller seems to be out of stock


If you're in Europe and maybe the US, you can try and search around for a Nokia HDD-1, which is where the PK1 driver was originally found in. Though it is relatively hard to find a pair, but if you do find a pair, you get some cool DoCoMo shells with a silver highlight .

WARNING : DO NOT buy from the Italian seller named "lucpag", he sold me an "Italian market" pair (not what your looking for, possibly even a fake).


----------



## furyossa (Nov 21, 2020)

vygas said:


> If you're in Europe and maybe the US, you can try and search around for a Nokia HDD-1, which is where the PK1 driver was originally found in. Though it is relatively hard to find a pair, but if you do find a pair, you get some cool DoCoMo shells with a silver highlight .
> 
> WARNING : DO NOT buy from the Italian seller named "lucpag", he sold me an "Italian market" pair (not what your looking for, possibly even a fake).


Hi vigas
last time we spoke about that. I found only Nokia models HS-23, HS-40, and HS-43 in one local shop.
Are you sure that HHD-1 has a 150ohm  driver? These are all earphones for old Nokia phones. Some of these not have a 3.5mm plug


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 21, 2020)

grooveriders said:


> Do you know where I can get the pk1 150 ohm red coating? everyseller seems to be out of stock



Try looking for them in Taobao.

Here a seller who still has them: 
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572623588063


----------



## jogawag

grooveriders said:


> Do you know where I can get the pk1 150 ohm red coating? everyseller seems to be out of stock



This is my old post:

I found two pages selling red film 150Ω pk1 driver on Taobao.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572623588063
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=569489997267

However Taobao can only speak Chinese, so even if I used Google Translate, it was very difficult when I was in trouble.

https://www.tokopedia.com/
https://www.bukalapak.com/
https://shopee.co.id/
Searching with the keyword "yuin pk1 150 red film driver" on the above Indonesian website seems to sell it at many stores.
If you can ask a DIY member in Indonesia to purchase for you, this method may be safer.


----------



## rprodrigues

@jogawag 

He could use an agent.
I ordered mine thought Superbuy.com.


----------



## robar (Nov 21, 2020)

furyossa said:


> That's what I thought. I liked the shells at first glance  The plastic is good or ultra-cheap?
> These two (1 & 2) are probably similar sorry. I just wonder what kind of "trash" they put inside.
> But you have to admit that these black shells look really sexy


I'll check the pana shell for you tomorrow, send pics also if you'd like  Plastic is nice, and yes pretty looking shells. Wasted opportunity imho, I dont know why they couldnt use at least a qian39 tier driver and put some effort into tuning


----------



## furyossa (Nov 21, 2020)

jogawag said:


> This is my old post:
> 
> I found two pages selling red film 150Ω pk1 driver on Taobao.
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572623588063
> ...


I still wonder how can this driver produce such good sound. It's really nothing special here.
Standard plastic diaphragm covered with some kind of red transparent polish at the very edge.
It looks like this polish dampens the vibrations a bit so the sound is pretty balanced compared to PK2


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 21, 2020)

The diaphragm feels thinner and 'softer' than others, which means it's probably lighter. That means it is easier to move. That lightness and flexibility is probably why it has such good sub-bass response. Thicker/heavier and stiffer may not react as well in both quantity and quality.

Combined with a higher ohm voice coil which helps 'electrically dampen' any distortion, as more power can equal more control. As the slightly higher amperage and/or voltage means a stronger magnetic field generated to move the driver. 

A good combination and excellent overall performance IMO. A difficult balance to achieve.


This also means it is a more fragile driver, so be careful when soldering.


I don't recommend feeling the diaphragm yourself, I wouldn't have if I didn't have a damaged driver.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> The diaphragm feels thinner and 'softer' than others, which means it's probably lighter. That means it is easier to move. That lightness and flexibility is probably why it has such good sub-bass response. Thicker/heavier and stiffer may not react as well in both quantity and quality.
> 
> Combined with a higher ohm voice coil which helps 'electrically dampen' any distortion, as more power can equal more control. As the slightly higher amperage and/or voltage means a stronger magnetic field generated to move the driver.
> 
> ...


I agree. This is not red nail polish, but some elastic gel. Solid coatings are usually applied to increase stiffness and in this case is opposite.
Really interesting solution.


----------



## grooveriders

Thanks everyone has been so helpful !! I will need to find a way to order from taobao (never purchased from taobao before) will ask the local-chinese shipper for more info.


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 21, 2020)

grooveriders said:


> Thanks everyone has been so helpful !! I will need to find a way to order from taobao (never purchased from taobao before) will ask the local-chinese shipper for more info.



I already ordered from Taobao by means of both Yoybuy.com and Superbuy.com successfully .


----------



## Punslayer

I put the 130 Ohm beryllium drivers in the six-hole wooden shells (the background pair) as my first DIY earbud attempt and liked them so much I decided to try making a cuter version.  I think I was pretty successful.  

I left two of the vents blocked after painting the shells to keep the bass down a touch and they sound just about perfect to me.


----------



## rprodrigues

Punslayer said:


> I put the 130 Ohm beryllium drivers in the six-hole wooden shells (the background pair) as my first DIY earbud attempt and liked them so much I decided to try making a cuter version.  I think I was pretty successful.
> 
> I left two of the vents blocked after painting the shells to keep the bass down a touch and they sound just about perfect to me.



Yeah. You really did!  

What about that cable?


----------



## Slater

Punslayer said:


> I put the 130 Ohm beryllium drivers in the six-hole wooden shells (the background pair) as my first DIY earbud attempt and liked them so much I decided to try making a cuter version.  I think I was pretty successful.
> 
> I left two of the vents blocked after painting the shells to keep the bass down a touch and they sound just about perfect to me.



Looks really nice!

Can you please share more details about this?


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Nov 22, 2020)

Slater said:


> Looks really nice!
> 
> Can you please share more details about this?


I can, it's from a company that was called yurbud, the sounded terrible, meant for sports had these rubber tips the you put on the buds and they wouldn't fall out, I have the rubbers but rarely use, the yurbud shells are some of my favorite for the 130ohm Beryllium. The shells have a large cavity and give really cool sub bass.
Here's a pic, you can see the shells have a large lip for the rubber covers


The model I have are no longer found, it is a pity, I wanted more shells, i enjoy there sound much more then the mx500

The model I had is Yurbuds Signature ITX-2000
Found after a bit of looking


----------



## grooveriders

Apart from the 600 ohm purple beryllium, which drivers have soundstage as wide? Will be ordering some drivers soon so any input is appreciated.
looking to buy pk1 150ohm red driver, 62 ohm Ti, 400ohm graphene. 
Also beside the shell/housing does foam/cotton increase or decrease soundstage and how does it affect sound signature?


----------



## Slater

Themilkman46290 said:


> I can, it's from a company that was called yurbud, the sounded terrible, meant for sports had these rubber tips the you put on the buds and they wouldn't fall out, I have the rubbers but rarely use, the yurbud shells are some of my favorite for the 130ohm Beryllium. The shells have a large cavity and give really cool sub bass.
> Here's a pic, you can see the shells have a large lip for the rubber covers
> 
> 
> ...



Very interesting!

So how do the berylliums sound with the rubber cover? When you’re not using the rubber covers, do you install normal sponge foam covers?


----------



## Themilkman46290

Slater said:


> Very interesting!
> 
> So how do the berylliums sound with the rubber cover? When you’re not using the rubber covers, do you install normal sponge foam covers?


The sound becomes congested,  the bass gets boomy, a bit muddy
Soundstage gets much smaller
In general not very positive, the only time I used them was on a pair of monks, the tips added a bass boost but at the expense of the mids

I actually have not used the rubber covers in about a year and a half

I received the headphones for free, gave them to my wife, she hated them, then one day she told me she wanted a better pair of headphones, we whent to a local audio store and she bought grados......

A year later I remembered the shells, pulled them out, added 0.78mm 2 pin and 130ohm beryllium and its my 2nd favourite bud, very detailed, good mids and deep sub bass


----------



## Themilkman46290

grooveriders said:


> Apart from the 600 ohm purple beryllium, which drivers have soundstage as wide? Will be ordering some drivers soon so any input is appreciated.
> looking to buy pk1 150ohm red driver, 62 ohm Ti, 400ohm graphene.
> Also beside the shell/housing does foam/cotton increase or decrease soundstage and how does it affect sound signature?


Well in general stuffing the housing decreases the bass, I have used a bit in the past but have gotten better results by using paper/foam combinations
In my collection the wides sound would be between my 500ohm in mx500 shells and my 130ohm in my yurbud shells, 130ohm in metal shells with wooden cup 

My 400ohm have the best overall sound (not too fatiguing, sweet mids, deep rumbly sub bass and airy highs) 
My 64ohm ti ($15-16 dollars version) are my bass head buds
My 600ohm had good sub bass (one of the best) but the highs seemed to me to be too polite so I tuned them for there remarkable mids


----------



## furyossa (Nov 22, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Well in general stuffing the housing decreases the bass, I have used a bit in the past but have gotten better results by using paper/foam combinations
> In my collection the wides sound would be between my 500ohm in mx500 shells and my 130ohm in my yurbud shells, 130ohm in metal shells with wooden cup
> 
> My 400ohm have the best overall sound (not too fatiguing, sweet mids, deep rumbly sub bass and airy highs)
> ...


There is no dilemma around these models. I completely agree with your comment 
I also remember that you have very interesting DIY models for each drive. Yesterday I started the post about "nicknames" for DIY drivers. Based on your personal experience what nickname would you give for let's say 400ohm, 130ohm, and 64ohm Ti.?


----------



## robar (Nov 22, 2020)

As promised, here are the photos of the panasonic shell @furyossa  I put a B40 shell next to it as reference. Comfort is better, plastic is slighty worse but still quite decent. In stock form it only has a little open vent at the top. B40 cover fits.


----------



## willyboyaudio (Nov 22, 2020)

furyossa said:


> There is no dilemma around these models. I completely agree with your comment
> I also remember that you have very interesting DIY models for each drive. Yesterday I started the post about "nicknames" for DIY drivers. Based on your personal experience what nickname would you give for let's say 400ohm, 130ohm, and 64ohm Ti.?


May suggest "Eight Pack" for the 130 Ohm? I think that is quite distinctive to that model.  


furyossa said:


> I think they really deserve a better nickname. What do you think about that?
> Now, 600onm Beryllium. I often call it "*Bery*" but not only because of Beryllium. It reminds me of Barry White (big ie huge impedance)
> OK for the rest of the DIY lineup you decide. This is just the beginning


Thanks for starting this, @furyossa I agree with the idea and your proposals, may I suggest pronouncing it "Barry"? I feel it sounds nicer, and sounds more like a 'name'
What do you think?
We need to come up with a name for 19-21kHz soon! Any suggestions?


jogawag said:


> This is my old post:
> 
> I found two pages selling red film 150Ω pk1 driver on Taobao.
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572623588063
> ...


DIY member in Indonesia here. From those shops, Tokopedia has more reputable stores selling DIY parts. Unfortunately, none of those stores advertising PK1 red film driver have registered any sales of that model. It is a common practice to list a unique item to bring traffic to their store, but when you ask them, they'll say it's out of stock. There is one store that I know have them in stock as of last year, but I think they've run out of it and no longer has it in their page.


----------



## furyossa (Nov 23, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> May suggest "Eight Pack" for the 130 Ohm? I think that is quite distinctive to that model.
> 
> Thanks for starting this, @furyossa I agree with the idea and your proposals, may I suggest pronouncing it "Barry"? I feel it sounds nicer, and sounds more like a 'name'
> What do you think?
> ...


Yup. 130ohm has the best abs in the lineup. "*Eight Packs*" or short "*8-Packs*" We solved that.
Now about 600ohm. I thought about it too, actually a few more names:
- "Barry White" it would fit nicely just if it had a white lid ie cover
- "Blackberry" will confuse many people and they will think that the phone is in question
- "Blueberry" because of blue shells that I use for this driver but it's irrelevant.
In the end, I decided to use simply the first 4 letters from *Bery*llium. Also because this is the first beryllium coated DIY we can call it "*Papa Bery*"
Ok. @Themilkman46290 love 400ohm graphene and @robar is bought all 19-21kHz drivers from the Ali (until recently they were not in stock )
I think it would be fair for them to be "godfathers" and give names to these drivers


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> As promised, here are the photos of the panasonic shell @furyossa  I put a B40 shell next to it as reference. Comfort is better, plastic is slighty worse but still quite decent. In stock form it only has a little open vent at the top. B40 cover fits.


Look ok. What do you think if it makes sense to use mmcx with this shells?


----------



## vygas (Nov 22, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Hi vigas
> last time we spoke about that. I found only Nokia models HS-23, HS-40, and HS-43 in one local shop.
> Are you sure that HHD-1 has a 150ohm  driver? These are all earphones for old Nokia phones. Some of these not have a 3.5mm plug


Hi, sorry for the late reply, and yes the HDD-1 has the exact same marks, dots, epoxy and red shine through the holes on the driver cover. Though, you could get a HS-23 and have a DIY PK3 driver in your hands . P.S. All those Nokia buds need a re-cable and are pretty easy to open up.


----------



## Punslayer

rprodrigues said:


> Yeah. You really did!
> 
> What about that cable?



The cable is one I put together with spare A2DC connectors and some wire from the CEMA store on Aliexpress. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33054896260.html

It's a really light and flexible wire, so I thought it would be good for earbuds.  I skipped the splitter to further save weight.



Slater said:


> Looks really nice!
> 
> Can you please share more details about this?



As the other poster stated they're Yurbuds covers.  You can find them on Amazon in a number of colors and sizes.  For me they do improve fit a lot, but the sound changes can be unpredictable.  Some buds sound quite nice with the covers on, while others get hollow and weird.  I really liked these buds initially, but the bass was a little much for me and the covers happened to work very well in this case.  On the pink version, blocking two of the vents had a similar effect.


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Yup. 130ohm has the best abs in the lineup. "*Eight Packs*" or short "*8-Packs*" We solved that.
> Now about 600ohm. I thought about it too, actually a few more names:
> - "Barry White" it would fit nicely just if it had a white lid ie cover
> - "Blackberry" will confuse many people and they will think that the phone is in question
> ...


So there is the bery 6 and bery 5
The 8pack

Still leaves us with 2 versions of the 64ohm ti (one slightly fancier looking then the other)
The 400.......I call them the beryllium slayer...... 
Or the tetra (Greek for 4), fyra (Swedish) , quatro (spanish).....


----------



## 730user (Nov 23, 2020)

I didn't have a Pk1 150 ohm. But pk3 32 ohm and pk2 16 ohm were available. These are not bad speakers but for my taste the not expensive $ 5 Chinese speakers have the best sound.

Guys, are the 400 ohm graphene speakers demanding amplification? Do you need a powerful amplifier or is a player with an amplifier like OPA1622 enough? I'll get them soon ...


----------



## willyboyaudio

@furyossa @Themilkman46290 
So the 600 and 500 have beryllium but the 400 has graphene diaphragm?
To combine your comments, what do you say we call the 600 “Papa Bery” and the 500 “Bery”?
I leave the 400 for you godfathers to decide LOL


----------



## furyossa

730user said:


> I didn't have a Pk1 150 ohm. But pk3 32 ohm and pk2 16 ohm were available. These are not bad speakers but for my taste the not expensive $ 5 Chinese speakers have the best sound.
> 
> Guys, are the 400 ohm graphene speakers demanding amplification? Do you need a powerful amplifier or is a player with an amplifier like OPA1622 enough? I'll get them soon ...


You can drive DIY 400ohm on LG phones that use Quad-DAC (V20, V30, V35, V40, V50, V60, G7, G8...) OPA1622 can push 400ohm also


----------



## furyossa (Nov 23, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> @furyossa @Themilkman46290
> So the 600 and 500 have beryllium but the 400 has graphene diaphragm?
> To combine your comments, what do you say we call the 600 “Papa Bery” and the 500 “Bery”?
> I leave the 400 for you godfathers to decide LOL


We have a whole "Bery" family. *Papa Bery* aka 600ohm, *Mama Bery* - 500ohm and son "*8-packs*" Bery 
As for the graphene we have two members, for now, 400ohm and 68ohm. BTW... "*FYRA* " sounds nice, or "*quatrOHM*" but what about 68ohm?
On the other hand, Titanium has a whole tribe. 64ohm (full Ti),64ohm (composite [PU+Ti]),19-21kHz Ti, 40ohm, 32ohm, and who knows how many more.
The 64ohm full Ti is a "*Chief*"  It's too loud


----------



## galgofa

May i consider to buy smabat m2 pro (ot has good discount now) as a housing unit and play with the drivers as many recommended here ? Is it compatible with most 15,4mm drivers ? for example with this one : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001103895371.html


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> Look ok. What do you think if it makes sense to use mmcx with this shells?


I don't have experience with mmcx builds :/ This shell is very simple, the stem is just a circular tube, nothing fancy so I guess it would be easy. I don't know if it could reach the SQ of a pk shell, but the comfort and design is nice.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> I don't have experience with mmcx builds :/ This shell is very simple, the stem is just a circular tube, nothing fancy so I guess it would be easy. I don't know if it could reach the SQ of a pk shell, but the comfort and design is nice.


And what about names? You are the godfather for 19-21kHz.   I saw one Ti version and on others not say anything. Or maybe are both TI?


----------



## robar (Nov 23, 2020)

furyossa said:


> And what about names? You are the godfather for 19-21kHz.   I saw one Ti version and on others not say anything. Or maybe are both TI?


Lol I've never been called a godfather before, I'm honored  There are a lot of versions, a few months ago I posted a shoppee link here where all the variations were listed. There is a titanium 32ohm with purple dot, a "balanced" version with green dot, a "clear highs" version and a "heavy bass" version with red dot. My recommended one is the red dot heavy bass, I haven't tried the others. It's pretty hard to give a name, I'll think about it  Something that reflects on either the red dot, or the price-performance, or maybe the big fat solder dots. It's hard to give a name when the materials are not fancy  19-21 is pretty easy to remember though, and I've not seen any other cheap 32ohm driver with specs like that


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> I don't have experience with mmcx builds :/ This shell is very simple, the stem is just a circular tube, nothing fancy so I guess it would be easy. I don't know if it could reach the SQ of a pk shell, but the comfort and design is nice.









My assumption here would be the following:
Pk shell has a bawled shape which increases cavity size. Also, the reflection of the back soundwaves is slower. Sound will not be congested,  this allows better
spaciousness of sound.
Panasonic shell stem is not aligned with the middle of the shell "head" (like dp100) and curves on the image show familiar contour of some metallic shells which have
good ergonomics. This shape can produce intimate sound (closed-back) or in some bad cases congested sound (muffled sound) we often notice in cheap branded models.
The small "rear" vent will probably increase punch in this scenario. What do you think?


----------



## furyossa (Nov 23, 2020)

robar said:


> Lol I've never been called a godfather before, I'm honored  There are a lot of versions, a few months ago I posted a shoppee link here where all the variations were listed. There is a titanium 32ohm with purple dot, a "balanced" version with green dot, a "clear highs" version and a "heavy bass" version with red dot. My recommended one is the red dot heavy bass, I haven't tried the others. It's pretty hard to give a name, I'll think about it  Something that reflects on either the red dot, or the price-performance, or maybe the big fat solder dots. It's hard to give a name when the materials are not fancy  19-21 is pretty easy to remember though, and I've not seen any other cheap 32ohm driver with specs like that


Wow. This proves even more that you are an "expert" on this driver. Please don't say anything more    
So "*Red dot Heavy*"  like Billy the Kid  Year 1921


----------



## Themilkman46290

galgofa said:


> May i consider to buy smabat m2 pro (ot has good discount now) as a housing unit and play with the drivers as many recommended here ? Is it compatible with most 15,4mm drivers ? for example with this one : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001103895371.html


Truth is I have been thinking about this for a wile, not sure if the ring around the driver will come off so easily. Its worth a try, but I am focused on doing home renovations, it will be a while before I spend anything on audio gear...... 

If you do try it, let us know how your results do


----------



## assassin10000 (Nov 23, 2020)

Swapped my DIY 16Ω SR2 drivers onto the X12 Pro TWS. Seems to be a better pairing than the ETS 32Ω 'bass' drivers.

Looks wise, went from this:


To this:

(This pic is actually of my Yuin PK2 drivers, but has same style cover as the DIY SR2 16Ω)


----------



## jogawag (Nov 24, 2020)

I also tried to make the old variant BLACK docomo shell compatible with mmcx.

The old docomo variant shell amplifies the mid-low but I found the sound is a little blurry, so when I covered the "rear" vent that @furyossa says with ointment and changed it to a donut-shaped ear pad, the low became tight and the treble became clear.

If you have the same complaints about the old docomo variant shell, try it out.


----------



## grooveriders

willyboyaudio said:


> May suggest "Eight Pack" for the 130 Ohm? I think that is quite distinctive to that model.
> 
> Thanks for starting this, @furyossa I agree with the idea and your proposals, may I suggest pronouncing it "Barry"? I feel it sounds nicer, and sounds more like a 'name'
> What do you think?
> ...


Do you know which store has them? All of the stores are out of stock and said that it is discontinued.


----------



## Themilkman46290

grooveriders said:


> Do you know which store has them? All of the stores are out of stock and said that it is discontinued.


Nsc has them


----------



## willyboyaudio

grooveriders said:


> Do you know which store has them? All of the stores are out of stock and said that it is discontinued.


Check out "Onebest Choice" store. That's my go-to shop in Indonesia. Hope that helps.


----------



## willyboyaudio (Nov 24, 2020)

Hi guys, allow me to introduce the "Head-Fi DIY Earbuds Wiki"
I appreciate so much the wealth of information in this thread, and by creating this list I hope we can organize that somehow. It will certainly help me with my DIY journey, and I humbly hope it will benefit us all, old and new alike.

I'd appreciate your support and contribution to improve this wiki by (in order of preference):
- Quote posts where impressions and tuning recipes can be found
- Post your impressions and tuning recipes in this thread
- Leave comments in my blog
- Send me a PM with any info you have

To keep the spreadsheet easy to read, I will redact the posts. I will do my best but please also keep in mind that we're doing this for fun.  
Thank you all!


----------



## Themilkman46290

Has anyone noticed that there are 2 400ohm drivers in nsc store, one for $19 and one for $16....
They both say vocal


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Has anyone noticed that there are 2 400ohm drivers in nsc store, one for $19 and one for $16....
> They both say vocal


Bottom right corner


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Swapped my DIY 16Ω SR2 drivers onto the X12 Pro TWS. Seems to be a better pairing than the ETS 32Ω 'bass' drivers.
> 
> Looks wise, went from this:
> 
> ...


Beautiful! Now it's ready for production  
First variant with "EBX like" cover looks very nice.


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 24, 2020)

Hi DIY gurus,

Are these the actual best bang for the buck drivers?

[14.8mm]
-   64 Ohm N55 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001108307130.html)
- 120 Ohm beryllium (coated) (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001271576204.html)
- 150 Ohm red film (Taobao)

[15.4mm]
-      32 Ohm '19-21' (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html)
-   64 Ohm titanium (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000177042681.html or these ?)
- 150 Ohm (supposedly FAAEAL Rosemary)  (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983256142.html)
- 130 Ohm beryllium (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047315914.html and here)
- 300 Ohm (supposedly K's K300) (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000868542160.html)
- 400 Ohm graphene (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000774951516.html)
- 600 Ohm beryllium (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33030165207.html)

Am I missing any driver?


----------



## furyossa (Nov 24, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Hi DIY gurus,
> 
> Are these the actual best bang for the buck drivers?
> 
> ...


You can add these also
[14.8mm]
32ohms pk1 red film https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32776696327.html
[15.4mm]
We made a total mistake for this driver. 500ohm uses a graphene coating and not beryllium
500ohm graphene https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32985345691.html
68 Ohm graphene https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001160986470.html
[10mm]
used in this project
48Ohm Titanium https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979672050.html


----------



## Themilkman46290

rprodrigues said:


> Hi DIY gurus,
> 
> Are these the actual best bang for the buck drivers?
> 
> ...


I would put the 500 over the 600ohm, deeper sub bass and slightly better highs


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> I would put the 500 over the 600ohm, deeper sub bass and slightly better highs


Do you own 500ohm? Their frequency graphs look almost identical


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Nov 24, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Do you own 500ohm? Their frequency graphs look almost identical


Yep, and from the first listen it was better, I had gotten the 600 first, but decided to try the 500, wish I would have gone for the 500 from the beginning. It's basically what I was hoping for when I bought the 600ohm. If you guys haven't tried them, you should, it is rarely talked about on here but I would rate them in this order
400ohm 
130ohm 
500ohm
64ohm ti for $16
600ohm
If I had them in the mx500 shells
500ohm 
600ohm 
64ohm ti $16
130ohm 
400ohm


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yep, and from the first listen it was better, I had gotten the 600 first, but decided to try the 500, wish I would have gone for the 500 from the beginning. It's basically what I was hoping for when I bought the 600ohm. If you guys haven't tried them, you should, it is rarely talked about on here but I would rate them in this order
> 400ohm
> 130ohm
> 500ohm
> ...



You really like graphene. 
For me, graphene has the most balanced frequencies. Period. In most cases, you know what to expect from this driver. Not sure for 68ohm.
From Beryllium I generally expect to be qualitative and dominant in the low end. So far, it has performed very well with the driver size 15.4mm 
and probably is the same for 14.8mm 120ohm. Also, I owned a small 8mm Bery. The designer who designed shells didn't think to make a vent in front of the driver so the quantity of the lower frequencies was really overemphasized. I try to fix that and I drill by mistake thought one of the drivers    What can I say, "beginner's luck"
Titanium is the only driver that is difficult to predict. 64ohm full Ti (15.4mm) aka. "Chief" has more bass quantity than Graphene and Beryllium.
Bass quality is average and tends to cast a shadow over mids and highs. BTW...mids are not recessed and highs can be called "bright".
But I can't say the same for the little 10mm driver who surprised me quite a bit with his performance. I will compare these two like this (5-star rating)
64ohm full Ti (2.5 / 5 stars) vs 48ohm 10mm Ti (4 / 5 stars).


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> Hi DIY gurus,
> 
> Are these the actual best bang for the buck drivers?
> 
> ...



I find the 120Ω Berylliums borderline too polite in the upper mid-range/lower treble and lacking resolution/detail unless they are provided more power than a typical cellphone output.



furyossa said:


> You can add these also
> [14.8mm]
> 32ohms pk1 red film https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32776696327.html



I haven't tried those. How do they compare to the 150Ω redfilm? (I may have asked this before...)


----------



## robar

rprodrigues said:


> Hi DIY gurus,
> 
> Are these the actual best bang for the buck drivers?
> 
> ...


The 19-21 you linked is the recommended "heavy bass" driver, but it's not titanium. The titanium version is this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000741710087.html but please note that this has a special type of mesh cover which doesnt really work with mx500 shells.
I can also recommend this "N50 red rim" for another cheap 32ohm driver (but I prefer the 19-21 overall), and this cover works with every shell I tried: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33027995148.html


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 24, 2020)

@furyossa

Aren't the 32ohms pk1 red film vocal-oriented?

What about the 150 Ohm 'transparent film'? Have you already tested them?

According to @assassin10000, it seems that the 14.8mm 120Ohm bery drivers have (too) rolled off bass.


@Themilkman46290
Do the 500ohm have a dark sound?




robar said:


> The 19-21 you linked is the recommended... it's not titanium
> ....



Fixed!
Thank you.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> I find the 120Ω Berylliums borderline too polite in the upper mid-range/lower treble and lacking resolution/detail unless they are provided more power than a typical cellphone output.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't tried those. How do they compare to the 150Ω redfilm? (I may have asked this before...)


I don't know. I'm also interested in these.


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> According to @assassin10000, it seems that the 14.8mm 120Ohm bery drivers have (too) rolled off bass.



Bass is good on them. Just borderline too low on the pinna gain area. Sits at about +8db iirc, my personal sweet spot seems to be around +10db +/- 1 or 2 db. Above that can be a bit fatiguing and below that a bit boring.



furyossa said:


> I don't know. I'm also interested in these.



Uhhh... Which ones?


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> @furyossa
> 
> Aren't the 32ohms pk1 red film vocal-oriented?
> 
> ...


PK1 150 Ohm 'transparent film' and 32ohm  "pink film" are vocal-oriented
Graphene drivers rarely have a dark sound. Also depends on tuning
I own QKZ VK4 and AK1 and both use graphene drivers. Not "dark" in here except the shell color  Bass is stronger


----------



## furyossa (Nov 24, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Bass is good on them. Just borderline too low on the pinna gain area. Sits at about +8db iirc, my personal sweet spot seems to be around +10db +/- 1 or 2 db. Above that can be a bit fatiguing and below that a bit boring.
> 
> 
> 
> Uhhh... Which ones?


Both 32ohm and 120ohm 14.8mm. Until recently I didn't know about the 14.8mm version. I have only 3 x 130ohm "8-packs". "Love at first sight"


----------



## furyossa (Nov 24, 2020)

@assassin10000 Have you tried maybe to measure earbuds with iMM6 + AudioTool (android) and convert *.at file from AudioTool for use in REW?


----------



## robar (Nov 24, 2020)

Btw some new interesting stuff, have you seen these?

Open back metal shell for both diameters:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001773416768.html

Some new budget buds with interesting 15.4mm shells (also available at cklewis)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001762531590.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001547137732.html (apparently poisonous for females lol, I love these Chinese copywriting wonders)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001762616120.html


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> @assassin10000 Have you tried maybe to measure earbuds with iMM6 + AudioTool (android) and convert *.at file from AudioTool for use in REW?



I use REW with my laptop and my IMM-6 plugged into my TC35B. My laptops soundcard is no good for measurements.

No point doing it with my phone, as it lacks a 3.5mm out and I would use the TC35B.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Btw some new interesting stuff, have you seen these?
> 
> Open back metal shell for both diameters:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001773416768.html
> ...


Wow, these shells look so damn good. It's so compact. Two versions  
And for me, the shipping cost is  $106.56. Only this guy can help me  . I'm getting ready to send him a letter
@robar man, you're killing me with these "new arrivals".


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> I use REW with my laptop and my IMM-6 plugged into my TC35B. My laptops soundcard is no good for measurements.
> 
> No point doing it with my phone, as it lacks a 3.5mm out and I would use the TC35B.


I threw my USB music card in the trash. No laptop has a good music card. 
That is why I use SonataHD dongle, iBassoDC01 occasionally but I don't think they support iMM6. 
That's why I use iMM6 with LG G7. Also, AudioTool is not so bad at all, it's not good as AudioTools on iOs but for Android, this works nice
There are a lot of cheap external cards for Gaming headsets but all have integrated EQ which is not good for measurements.
Maybe I'll buy this little device, it's around $100


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> I threw my USB music card in the trash. No laptop has a good music card.
> That is why I use SonataHD dongle, iBassoDC01 occasionally but I don't think they support iMM6.
> That's why I use iMM6 with LG G7. Also, AudioTool is not so bad at all, it's not good as AudioTools on iOs but for Android, this works nice
> There are a lot of cheap external cards for Gaming headsets but all have integrated EQ which is not good for measurements.
> Maybe I'll buy this little device, it's around $100



Yeah. The onboard card worked terrible, not surprised that most built in are crap.

If you buy a USB A male to USB C female adapter, you can probably use your Sonata HD like I do the TC35B with my laptop. Top right in this pic:


----------



## willyboyaudio (Nov 24, 2020)

furyossa said:


> We made a total mistake for this driver. 500ohm uses a graphene coating and not beryllium
> 500ohm graphene https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32985345691.html


O-ow. There goes Mama Bery. What can be a fitting name for the 500 Ohm graphene? @furyossa @Themilkman46290



Themilkman46290 said:


> If you guys haven't tried them, you should, it is rarely talked about on here but I would rate them in this order


Wow, thanks for this ranking list. Care to link the posts where you share your design/tuning/impressions on them? This is for the DIY Earbuds Wiki 



furyossa said:


> Titanium is the only driver that is difficult to predict. 64ohm full Ti (15.4mm) aka. "Chief" has more bass quantity than Graphene and Beryllium.


Just want to make sure, is "Chief" the $16 64 Ohm Ti @Themilkman46290 was talking about in his ranking list above? If not, kindly link to the product, again, I'm slowly adding to the DIY Earbuds Wiki Thank you!



robar said:


> The 19-21 you linked is the recommended "heavy bass" driver, but it's not titanium. The titanium version is this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000741710087.html but please note that this has a special type of mesh cover which doesnt really work with mx500 shells.
> I can also recommend this "N50 red rim" for another cheap 32ohm driver (but I prefer the 19-21 overall), and this cover works with every shell I tried: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33027995148.html


I got the the purple dot titanium 32 Ohm with standard plastic cover on the way, hopefully I can share some impressions soon. Do we consider it to be the same family with "Red Dot Heavy"? We also haven't got a name for the "green dot balanced" one hahaha..
Noted on your recommendation for "N50 Red Rim". 



furyossa said:


> PK1 150 Ohm 'transparent film' and 32ohm  "pink film" are vocal-oriented


Noted with thanks. 

Brief info about the wiki here, sorry for quoting myself LOL


willyboyaudio said:


> Hi guys, allow me to introduce the "Head-Fi DIY Earbuds Wiki"
> I appreciate so much the wealth of information in this thread, and by creating this list I hope we can organize that somehow. It will certainly help me with my DIY journey, and I humbly hope it will benefit us all, old and new alike.
> 
> I'd appreciate your support and contribution to improve this wiki by (in order of preference):
> ...


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Yeah. The onboard card worked terrible, not surprised that most built in are crap.
> 
> If you buy a USB A male to USB C female adapter, you can probably use your Sonata HD like I do the TC35B with my laptop. Top right in this pic:


both came with USB adapter but ibasso has balanced 2.5 out. I will try tomorrow, if it works i will ask for help about setting in REW


----------



## furyossa (Nov 25, 2020)

willyboyaudio said:


> O-ow. There goes Mama Bery. What can be a fitting name for the 500 Ohm graphene? @furyossa @Themilkman46290


This 500ohm has a red accent on the backside. Perhaps "*Bloody Mary"* will be a good idea for the nickname.
If we go with a male name, then a combo of these two names: Hellboy (comics character) and BigBoi (a member of the Outkast hip-hop duo) = "*HellBoi*"
400ohm driver has a blue accent so maybe "*Blue Lagoon*" or simply "*Lagoon*"
What do you think @Themilkman46290?


willyboyaudio said:


> Just want to make sure, is "Chief" the $16 64 Ohm Ti @Themilkman46290 was talking about in his ranking list above? If not, kindly link to the product, again, I'm slowly adding to the DIY Earbuds Wiki Thank you!


The "*Chief*" is a full Titanium driver, not a composite (PU+Ti). This composite driver aka. "*Half-Breed*" is most likely used here. Another 14.8mm composite here by @assassin10000


----------



## furyossa

@willyboyaudio about your Wiki project.
This is a really good idea to organize everything in one place.  
Sometimes is really hard and annoying to look for a description of each driver or some specific mod throughout the whole forum.
It would also be a good idea to consider any driver because we're not just talking about driver characteristics but also about shells, cables, connectors, airflow, ergonomics,
tools, and materials ... in short modding in general. When I say "any driver", I mean that sometimes we also use some drivers from branded manufacturers for our mods.
This can also help those who have some pre-made models and want to make some changes: swap the cable, add the tuning foam, install MMCX, change or modify the shell etc.
In your " Head-Fi DIY Earbuds Wiki " spreadsheet, you can remove the "Picture" row and in a row "Tested by User" add ordinal numbers (*#*) next to the username that will be a hyperlink for the "DIY Earbuds" thread mod. I will use my "8-Packs" project as an example: *furyossa #1, #2, #3.*
One of the reasons would also be that some projects upgrade over time


----------



## Themilkman46290

rprodrigues said:


> @furyossa
> 
> Aren't the 32ohms pk1 red film vocal-oriented?
> 
> ...


Yeah, I would say overall they are kind of dark, brighter then the 600 bery but not as bright as 400 blue or the 8 pack...


----------



## Abu144Hz

Hey guys I have a question. From where im from good cables for earbuds are extremely hard to come by. So can i just buy an 8 core iem cable, strip the wires and then use it to recable my earbuds?


----------



## furyossa (Nov 26, 2020)

Abu144Hz said:


> Hey guys I have a question. From where im from good cables for earbuds are extremely hard to come by. So can i just buy an 8 core iem cable, strip the wires and then use it to recable my earbuds?


Yes you can. If the cable has mmcx connectors and if you can find some "female" mmcx then you can build mmcx mod. One more example
Easy option will be to remove mmcx connectors and solder wires directly on the driver and for that, you need first to check which wires are for signal and which for the ground, by using a multimeter. For 8-core cable, 4 wires are used for ground, 2 for left and 2 for the right channel.
Also, you can cut all wires (remove mmcx, plug and splitter) and build two 4-core cables. Of course, you will need one more 3.5mm plug for that. This video shows how to join two wires and this is only if you want to practice to be a "Jedi warrior" 🤟


----------



## assassin10000

Abu144Hz said:


> Hey guys I have a question. From where im from good cables for earbuds are extremely hard to come by. So can i just buy an 8 core iem cable, strip the wires and then use it to recable my earbuds?



You may want to stick with 4 core cables. 8 cores may not fit through the shell openings.


----------



## assassin10000

Took some measurements of the DIY SR2 16Ω on the X12 Pro. Green is no EQ, orange is after EQ.



The left driver unfortunately has an issue in the mid-treble and makes this pair too imbalanced. The above are from the right driver only.



Put my pair of 40Ω Ti drivers on. Way better and they look like they belong there.



The sound sig (mostly bass) is definitely more suited to use out and about vs. the original drivers which were somewhat anemic. Before and after EQ measurements.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Took some measurements of the DIY SR2 16Ω on the X12 Pro. Green is no EQ, orange is after EQ.
> 
> 
> The left driver unfortunately has an issue in the mid-treble and makes this pair too imbalanced. The above are from the right driver only.
> ...


40ohm Ti freq. graph looks the way better despite channel imbalance. ARTA measurements or REW with inverted colors?
I tried SonataHD last night. SonataHD uses 3 different firmware A,C,D. Only A work with mic. It has a flat freq. response in range 20Hz-20kHz and is perfect for measurement
with iMM6. I failed to do the measurement in the REW and I gave up.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> 40ohm Ti freq. graph looks the way better despite channel imbalance. ARTA measurements or REW with inverted colors?
> I tried SonataHD last night. SonataHD uses 3 different firmware A,C,D. Only A work with mic. It has a flat freq. response in range 20Hz-20kHz and is perfect for measurement
> with iMM6. I failed to do the measurement in the REW and I gave up.



REW with inverted colors.

The 40Ω measurements aren't due to imbalance. One line is without EQ (purple) and one line is with EQ (red).


----------



## willyboyaudio

furyossa said:


> @willyboyaudio about your Wiki project.
> This is a really good idea to organize everything in one place.
> Sometimes is really hard and annoying to look for a description of each driver or some specific mod throughout the whole forum.
> It would also be a good idea to consider any driver because we're not just talking about driver characteristics but also about shells, cables, connectors, airflow, ergonomics,
> ...


Thanks @furyossa for your input. I agree, that "Picture" column is kinda awkward. Unfortunately GoogleSheets can't have more than one link in a cell, so I've created columns to the right. Hope this is okay. The link is in my signature.
Thanks again!!


----------



## Themilkman46290

So has anyone tried the white 300ohm driver? I asked a couple sellers and have been told it has a lighter diaphragm compared to the black. 
Been thinking about trying them for a while but still a bit hesitant


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 26, 2020)

Is there any alternative to Dayton iMM-6 that I can order from Aliexpress?


----------



## furyossa (Nov 26, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> Is there any alternative to Dayton iMM-6 that I can order from Aliexpress?


Alternatives for iMM6, sure. For this, U need to build a custom adapter. Here's how a DIY expert does it
Most of the microphones which can cover frequency response in the range 20Hz-20kHz are fine for testing.
These two below are used for speakers but also U can use these for IEM's and earbuds If I'm not mistaken
- Superlux ECM888B
- Superlux ECM999
This one is probably the most used mic for professional speaker measurements, but it has also "professional" price


----------



## Abu144Hz

furyossa said:


> Yes you can. If the cable has mmcx connectors and if you can find some "female" mmcx then you can build mmcx mod. One more example
> Easy option will be to remove mmcx connectors and solder wires directly on the driver and for that, you need first to check which wires are for signal and which for the ground, by using a multimeter. For 8-core cable, 4 wires are used for ground, 2 for left and 2 for the right channel.
> Also, you can cut all wires (remove mmcx, plug and splitter) and build two 4-core cables. Of course, you will need one more 3.5mm plug for that. This video shows how to join two wires and this is only if you want to practice to be a "Jedi warrior" 🤟


Thanks for the tips bro! I really appreciate it. I have considered the mmcx mod but I dont have a dremel and i dont have any tool to take accurate measurements of the diameter of the female mmcx socket.


----------



## Abu144Hz

assassin10000 said:


> You may want to stick with 4 core cables. 8 cores may not fit through the shell openings.


Thanks for the tip bro I appreciate it


----------



## Themilkman46290

So I decided to grab the 300 ohm white version, my wife calls them the green onions because they have some green onion looking plant in the description..... 

Has anyone gotten the 68ohm graphene?


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> So I decided to grab the 300 ohm white version, my wife calls them the green onions because they have some green onion looking plant in the description.....
> 
> Has anyone gotten the 68ohm graphene?


The anti-flu driver 300ohm. Luckily it is not advertised as "Female Poison driver with ULTRA high resolution" with "Shocking bass". A masterpiece ...    
I planned to order 68ohm and those new shells from the NSC store but shipping is above $100.


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> The anti-flu driver 300ohm. Luckily it is not advertised as "Female Poison driver with ULTRA high resolution" with "Shocking bass". A masterpiece ...
> I planned to order 68ohm and those new shells from the NSC store but shipping is above $100.


Yeah I noticed some weird shipping prices, the wooden shells from ck Lewis being around $80.......


----------



## Themilkman46290

Anyone here try playing with the tesla 14.2mm?


----------



## furyossa (Nov 27, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yeah I noticed some weird shipping prices, the wooden shells from ck Lewis being around $80.......


For me, everything has been weird since March. This abstinence from new DIY parts is unbearable.
So today I order Sennheiser HD25 Light, I hope they arrive tomorrow. Nowhere glue, nowhere screw and easily disassembles.
There are a lot of possibilities for modding this model.


----------



## cheebs (Nov 27, 2020)

Hey, newbie to DIY, shopping around for PK drivers. Anyone tried out the docomo drivers? How do they compare to others?



Also, will these fit into pk shells? 3.0mm OD


----------



## Sam L

furyossa said:


> I got many drivers, shells and other parts from NSC and I didn't have any problems.
> I forgot to mention one more thing. After 3-4 revisions of the shell, 400ohm graphene sounds best on "semi-large" cavity size shells like FENGRU Diy PT32
> and a new one that I use for these drivers. If you have a fit issue with 15.4mm driver better skip FENGRU Diy PT32. When you put foam over the plastic cover
> you get the wider size.
> ...


Thank you for putting this information out. I've avoided digging into the hardware side of earbud mods but at some point I'll jump in. I have a box of soldering tools somewhere in the garage.


----------



## jogawag (Nov 28, 2020)

cheebs said:


> Hey, newbie to DIY, shopping around for PK drivers. Anyone tried out the docomo drivers? How do they compare to others?
> 
> Also, will these fit into pk shells? 3.0mm OD


The docomo driver in pk shell with silver plated cable will sound, like Shozy Cygnus, very clear with a crisp, the HIFI sound. They will sound an impressive sparkling treble and produces a very vivid sound with high resolution.
Perhaps 3.0mm OD cable does not fit into pk shell.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Is there any alternative to Dayton iMM-6 that I can order from Aliexpress?





furyossa said:


> Alternatives for iMM6, sure. For this, U need to build a custom adapter. Here's how a DIY expert does it
> Most of the microphones which can cover frequency response in the range 20Hz-20kHz are fine for testing.
> These two below are used for speakers but also U can use these for IEM's and earbuds If I'm not mistaken
> - Superlux ECM888B
> ...



More useful info. Also, in the description of this video, there are a couple of interesting links


----------



## Themilkman46290

Just wanted to say, queyinfang store has a new thick cable, it's thick but very soft and super limp, I bought it for another project, but my samsara's cable had broken so I decided to use it on them, took a little dish soap to get them in the shell but they look good. 

They don't feel heavy, even though the cable looks as it should be uncomfortable, it's actually very comfortable 
And you can get 5 meters for 15 bucks


----------



## rprodrigues

Themilkman46290 said:


> Just wanted to say, queyinfang store has a new thick cable, it's thick but very soft and super limp, I bought it for another project, but my samsara's cable had broken so I decided to use it on them, took a little dish soap to get them in the shell but they look good.
> 
> They don't feel heavy, even though the cable looks as it should be uncomfortable, it's actually very comfortable
> And you can get 5 meters for 15 bucks




This one www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001604140527.html, right?
I'm about to order them...


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Just wanted to say, queyinfang store has a new thick cable, it's thick but very soft and super limp, I bought it for another project, but my samsara's cable had broken so I decided to use it on them, took a little dish soap to get them in the shell but they look good.
> 
> They don't feel heavy, even though the cable looks as it should be uncomfortable, it's actually very comfortable
> And you can get 5 meters for 15 bucks


"Christmas came early this year". Beautiful!.  🎅🤶
I like the idea of a "red sweater" for the cable  
I have a similar cable but I have already used it for the mmxs version.
I think my right channel is disconnected so I plan to take off both "male":mmcx and connect it directly to the earphones.
BTW...how is the renovation progressing?  Is it slowly coming to an end?


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> This one www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001604140527.html, right?
> I'm about to order them...


Nice find. Also, price is ok. Last year the cables were much cheaper, especially these pre-made one
The cable on the link that you posted uses tinted plastic wrap so it looks a bit darker
I can not find a link for mine but it looks like this (with clear plastic wrap)


----------



## rprodrigues (Nov 29, 2020)

@furyossa
Your cable resemble  Faaeal 'litz' one.



Spoiler: Here I am...


----------



## Themilkman46290

rprodrigues said:


> This one www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001604140527.html, right?
> I'm about to order them...


Yep


----------



## furyossa (Nov 29, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> @furyossa
> Your cable resemble  Faaeal 'litz' one.
> 
> 
> ...


Really nice (5N 4-core 2-pin 0.78mm) cable. If I'm not mistaken, also I think it ships with FAAEAL Hibiscus? Best combo (DLC DD + Pure Copper)
They were definitely supposed to supply BLON with this cable 
My cable is similar, maybe it has a different GA


----------



## furyossa (Nov 29, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Just wanted to say, queyinfang store has a new thick cable, it's thick but very soft and super limp, I bought it for another project, but my samsara's cable had broken so I decided to use it on them, took a little dish soap to get them in the shell but they look good.
> 
> They don't feel heavy, even though the cable looks as it should be uncomfortable, it's actually very comfortable
> And you can get 5 meters for 15 bucks


Is this original K's Samsara? I ask because the original uses a Rhodium plug. You swapped the black cable
This is not the same buds as K's 300ohm. Both models share the same spec except F.R.
Samsara has freq. response 15Hz-40kHz and K's 300ohm according to NickHCK 15Hz-25kHz.
Can you compare Samsara with 400ohm graphene or Papa Bery?


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Is this original K's Samsara? I ask because the original uses a Rhodium plug. You swapped the black cable
> This is not the same buds as K's 300ohm. Both models share the same spec except F.R.
> Samsara has freq. response 15Hz-40kHz and K's 300ohm according to NickHCK 15Hz-25kHz.
> Can you compare Samsara with 400ohm graphene or Papa Bery?


Yeah, they are the original samsara's, the berries don't really compete with them, only the 400 seem to be on its level, but the highs are slightly less in the 400, the 130ohm also seem to give the same amount of details but so far only in the yurbud shells I have. 

So 3 hole wood shells and 400ohm drivers with the right tuning are better then the samsara's (deeper sub bass, more forward mids, similar details) 


And the 8pack  in modified yurbuds shell with the right tuning (similar bass and mids but slightly more detailed and a bit more sparkly, also slightly deeper Soundstage)


----------



## usergate

furyossa said:


> Instead of Small vise I bought some chip metal grips, you can find it in any hardware store.


I use nose clips. They often come with swimming goggles. Finally, there was a use for them.


Hello everyone on this topic, it is extremely useful.


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yeah, they are the original samsara's, the berries don't really compete with them, only the 400 seem to be on its level, but the highs are slightly less in the 400, the 130ohm also seem to give the same amount of details but so far only in the yurbud shells I have.
> 
> So 3 hole wood shells and 400ohm drivers with the right tuning are better then the samsara's (deeper sub bass, more forward mids, similar details)
> 
> ...



This was K's flagship model from a few years ago, before Bell's series. I can't remember but I think the price was 2-3 times higher than DIY 400ohm.
It is very good that some DIY driver can reach the level of some older flagships and I hope that they will make some more of these DIY models that will be a competition to the newer flagships


----------



## Abu144Hz

Hey guys do you have any recommendations for cables that fit yuin pk style shells and mx500 shells with a mic, and preferably with a 90 degree headphone jack?
These are the cables that I found that fit my criteria, but may or may not fit the shells :
https://shopee.com.my/JCALLY-JC08S-8-core-OFC-IEM-Cable-(Mic-version)-i.6548893.5256861557
https://shopee.com.my/KBEAR-4-core-...-KBEAR-ZSX-ZSN-ZS10-PRO-i.27017914.7745880901
https://shopee.com.my/KZ-High-Purity-OFC-Braided-Replacement-Cable-(with-mic)-i.6548893.1051832394
Thanks for your help!


----------



## furyossa (Nov 30, 2020)

Abu144Hz said:


> Hey guys do you have any recommendations for cables that fit yuin pk style shells and mx500 shells with a mic, and preferably with a 90 degree headphone jack?
> These are the cables that I found that fit my criteria, but may or may not fit the shells :
> https://shopee.com.my/JCALLY-JC08S-8-core-OFC-IEM-Cable-(Mic-version)-i.6548893.5256861557
> https://shopee.com.my/KBEAR-4-core-...-KBEAR-ZSX-ZSN-ZS10-PRO-i.27017914.7745880901
> ...


Don't worry. All three cables use a thin wire. I will skip KZ cable because it has a very coarse wire. KBEAR 4 core looks ok. JELLY 8-core has 4 wires for each side, probably too much


----------



## Abu144Hz

furyossa said:


> Don't worry. All three cables use a thin wire. I will skip KZ cable because it has a very coarse wire. KBEAR 4 core looks ok. JELLY 8-core has 4 wires for each side, probably too much


Alright im going for the KBEAR cable now thanks bro. But i think this is the kz cable that is the softer cable that comes with like the ZS10 Pros, not the hard ones like on my KZ zst pro.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Has anyone noticed any new mid to high end drivers?


----------



## furyossa (Dec 2, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Has anyone noticed any new mid to high end drivers?


These days the talk is about green Toneking. The holiday season is slowly approaching so I don't believe that anything very special will appear.
I'm excited to see a new NiceHCK EBX Pro. I like the original model and I don't expect anything less from the pro version.
BTW ... you totally confused me with a new avatar image. It's funny that I didn't recognize you at first by name, but by 400, 500 600ohm earbud collection


----------



## axhng

crosspost from the earbuds thread. Inspired by assassin10000's DIY TWS earbuds, tried to do something similar too with a pair of Mifo O2 and vido I had lying around. So if it doesn't work, i won't miss either of them. Anyway, it took way more work to complete, and even though it does work, the payoff just isn't worth it imo. haha. While it does sound decent, and noticeably nicer than the Mifo originally was, it loses a bit of the lower mids that made the Vido enjoyable. I had to trim and reshape the earbuds shell a little, and had to use quite a bit of adhesive to secure it in place. The charging case had to be modded as well so that it would still fit (even with some foams), and I had to trim a lot of the plastic pieces away because it just wouldn't make proper contact with the charging contacts, and it took a lot of time to adjust it so that it would charge properly. So definitely wouldn't recommend using the Mifo O2 as a base. lol. But ngl, it is quite nice to have earbuds that are truly wireless. Really hope someday, some TWS maker will do something like this instead of the usual half in-ears.










Also, been having some fun with cheap driver units purchased from shopee. costs like 8.5 SGD in total only.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 1, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Responding here, since it's the more appropriate thread.
> 
> 
> The DIY PK1 150Ω redfilm are my favorites, whether they sound like the original I have no idea. I haven't heard the original Yuin PK1.
> ...


So your top 5 rankings for 14.8mm drivers:
1. 150ohm "red film"
2. 64ohm N55
3. 120ohm Bery
4. 40ohm Ti
5. PK2
Did I miss something? Lately, I use N55 very often as sleeping buds with full foam and I really enjoy it.
Do you have some PEQ compensation file for it to share? Can you post also freq. graph for original tuning?
I saw also your EQ adjustment for Red Film. Is it good or is it still in the W.I.P phase?


----------



## furyossa

axhng said:


> crosspost from the earbuds thread. Inspired by assassin10000's DIY TWS earbuds, tried to do something similar too with a pair of Mifo O2 and vido I had lying around. So if it doesn't work, i won't miss either of them. Anyway, it took way more work to complete, and even though it does work, the payoff just isn't worth it imo. haha. While it does sound decent, and noticeably nicer than the Mifo originally was, it loses a bit of the lower mids that made the Vido enjoyable. I had to trim and reshape the earbuds shell a little, and had to use quite a bit of adhesive to secure it in place. The charging case had to be modded as well so that it would still fit (even with some foams), and I had to trim a lot of the plastic pieces away because it just wouldn't make proper contact with the charging contacts, and it took a lot of time to adjust it so that it would charge properly. So definitely wouldn't recommend using the Mifo O2 as a base. lol. But ngl, it is quite nice to have earbuds that are truly wireless. Really hope someday, some TWS maker will do something like this instead of the usual half in-ears.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just keep up the good work


----------



## assassin10000

axhng said:


> crosspost from the earbuds thread. Inspired by assassin10000's DIY TWS earbuds, tried to do something similar too with a pair of Mifo O2 and vido I had lying around. So if it doesn't work, i won't miss either of them. Anyway, it took way more work to complete, and even though it does work, the payoff just isn't worth it imo. haha. While it does sound decent, and noticeably nicer than the Mifo originally was, it loses a bit of the lower mids that made the Vido enjoyable. I had to trim and reshape the earbuds shell a little, and had to use quite a bit of adhesive to secure it in place. The charging case had to be modded as well so that it would still fit (even with some foams), and I had to trim a lot of the plastic pieces away because it just wouldn't make proper contact with the charging contacts, and it took a lot of time to adjust it so that it would charge properly. So definitely wouldn't recommend using the Mifo O2 as a base. lol. But ngl, it is quite nice to have earbuds that are truly wireless. Really hope someday, some TWS maker will do something like this instead of the usual half in-ears.



Would using smaller 14.8mm drivers and 16.1-16.3mm o.d. housings have been a better fit?

The nice thing about the Sabbat X12's is they fit the charging case with no issues, even with foams installed.



furyossa said:


> So your top 5 rankings for 14.8mm drivers:
> 1. 150ohm "red film"
> 2. 64ohm N55
> 3. 120ohm Bery
> ...



Almost. I would put the OG Yuin PK2 ahead of the 40Ω Ti.

The 40Ω Ti would make a better sleep bud IMO, the N55 64Ω has more treble quantity and extension (depending on tuning).


I don't have any PEQ type files, I only used Viper4Android in the past and now Wavelet 9-band and bass tuner (no autoEQ files generated).

Grey is N55 64Ω before EQ. I don't have the measurement after EQ.




N55 64Ω EQ: 75hz +3.0, 150hz -.5, 300hz -1.0, 600hz -.5, 1.2/2.4/4.8/9.6khz 0.0, 19.2khz +1.0. Bass tuner 75hz cutoff frequency, +2.0db 


EQ is always a W.I.P. sometimes I'll be more sensitive or fatigued and will turn off the 'bass tuner'. Sometimes I'll boost it, depending on the song or mood. The physical tuning is done though, not much else I can do there. I'm pretty much settled for the main portion of the EQ.


----------



## axhng

assassin10000 said:


> Would using smaller 14.8mm drivers and 16.1-16.3mm o.d. housings have been a better fit?
> 
> The nice thing about the Sabbat X12's is they fit the charging case with no issues, even with foams installed.



sadly no. that's about the size of PK shell? I have a pair of 14.8mm pk shell drivers as well and it's too small for the opening of the mifo o2. it would probably require something even larger to fit properly and the opening is in a slight oval shape too. so it's just a bad option to use as a base.  Not to mention the not so great connectivity and battery life of the mifo o2.


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 2, 2020)

axhng said:


> sadly no. that's about the size of PK shell? I have a pair of 14.8mm pk shell drivers as well and it's too small for the opening of the mifo o2. it would probably require something even larger to fit properly and the opening is in a slight oval shape too. so it's just a bad option to use as a base.  Not to mention the not so great connectivity and battery life of the mifo o2.



Well. Now I know to avoid the O2 as a donor for DIY TWS earbuds lol.

I just got another pair of X12 Ultra's in. Trying to decide if I should try the N55 64Ω or even the 150Ω redfilm on them.

My other pair of X12 Ultra's were significantly louder and better sounding than the X12 Pro (stock vs stock). I think the Qualcomm in the Ultra is a better chip than the Pro with a Realtek. So it may do fine with a higher impedance driver.

From what I can tell both use the same 14.2mm bio-cellulose driver, 32Ω & 120db sensitivity.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> The 40Ω Ti would make a better sleep bud IMO, the N55 64Ω has more treble quantity and extension (depending on tuning).


I'm treble sensitive but with full-foam, it's a little easier to bear, I mostly listen to them at low volume and the details are still present which is one of the reasons why I like them


assassin10000 said:


> Grey is N55 64Ω before EQ. I don't have the measurement after EQ.


Thanks for the graph. I prefer measurements without EQ. 
Wow, they are very similar. I really didn't expect that. I will try your EQ adjustment.
So there are not so many benefits of beryllium in this case? 


assassin10000 said:


> EQ is always a W.I.P. sometimes I'll be more sensitive or fatigued and will turn off the 'bass tuner'. Sometimes I'll boost it, depending on the song or mood. The physical tuning is done though, not much else I can do there. I'm pretty much settled for the main portion of the EQ.


I have the same opinion about EQ and it usages
I’m not chasing any particular sound signature. I prefer to have different signatures (for different moods or music genres) and I use EQ only for some small creations. 
After all, we are doing EQ-ing here by modding and tuning


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 2, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I'm treble sensitive but with full-foam, it's a little easier to bear, I mostly listen to them at low volume and the details are still present which is one of the reasons why I like them
> 
> Thanks for the graph. I prefer measurements without EQ.
> Wow, they are very similar. I really didn't expect that. I will try your EQ adjustment.
> So there are not so many benefits of beryllium in this case?



I think the 40Ω Ti with a more reserved treble makes for either a better 'sleep' bud or a good outdoor/outside bud as the bass and mids are more present and the low end won't be as lost in somewhat noisier environments. It's why I put them on the X12 Pro.


No problem. The graph really doesn't do justice to how different they sound. The sound signature is similar, as I tuned them that way. As close to my preferences before EQ as I can get .

The 120Ω Berylliums also need amping where-as the N55 64Ω don't.


Maybe @Sam L can chime in on his thoughts. I sent the 120Ω Berylliums to him to try out.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 2, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Maybe @Sam L can chime in on his thoughts. I sent the 120Ω Berylliums to him to try out.


This is his comment
Be careful, DIY can be very "contagious", and what will we do if he decides to open his *box of soldering tools* and neglect measurement and equalization  You obviously didn't think about it.


----------



## axhng

assassin10000 said:


> Well. Now I know to avoid the O2 as a donor for DIY TWS earbuds lol.
> 
> I just got another pair of X12 Ultra's in. Trying to decide if I should try the N55 64Ω or even the 150Ω redfilm on them.
> 
> ...



That's good to know! haha. The good thing is that at least the X12 are cheaper than the E12, so it's a little easier on the wallet in case anything goes wrong. Also being able to fit in the case without any modding is a huge plus point! Shall keep an eye out for any sale on them since i doubt any TWS maker will ever make earbuds style TWS.  Thanks!!!


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


>


I played a bit with EQ in Peace. I just wanted to correct the bass and female vocals a little bit
This is the W.I.P for 64ohm N55 (full foam)
------------------------------------------------------------
_Preamp: -3 dB_
_Filter 1: ON LS Fc 20 Hz Gain 3 dB
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 55 Hz Gain 2.5 dB Q 0.5
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 75 Hz Gain 1.5 dB Q 0.5
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 100 Hz Gain 0.5 dB Q 1
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 250 Hz Gain -1 dB Q 0.8
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 400 Hz Gain 1 dB Q 0.5
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 3000 Hz Gain 0.5 dB Q 1
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 4500 Hz Gain 1 dB Q 1
Filter 11: ON PK Fc 7500 Hz Gain -1 dB Q 1.5
Filter 12: ON PK Fc 10000 Hz Gain 2 dB Q 1_
_Filter 13: ON HS Fc 16000 Hz Gain 3 dB_
-------------------------------------------------------------
@assassin10000 thank you again for the graph.
Of course, any suggestions are welcome.


----------



## robar (Dec 2, 2020)

@furyossa  I had a little time to take photos of my main builds  Some of them are still work in progress. I'll post more detailed impressions soon. I haven't bought anything in the last few months so no big reveal unfortunately.

1. Titanium 64ohm (what was the nickname?  ) with silver plated cable from cklewis - smooth deep slightly dark u-shaped sound. I used mix of different kind of tuning foams, I posted that earlier.

2. 19-21 HB in transparent DP100 shells, still tuning in progress. Smooth, neutral-ish, forward-sounding and a bit midcentric, very good for vocals. This shell is quite big with the plastic cover, sits deeply in the ears which makes the sound mid-forward, also this shell decreases the excellent low bass performance of this driver to average levels. I will probably experiment with drilling and/or closing vents. Cable is RY-C10.

3. 19-21 HB in modded "bundled mx500" shells. I drilled one small vent in the front area and pushed the horseshoe against it. It's a very natural, smooth, slightly warm and slightly u-shaped sounding set. Signature is similar to blue qian25 with a touch of warmth and many times better SQ of course. Low bass is better than in dp100 shell but still doesn't reach the last two builds. (still much better than lot of budget earbuds) This is my new "comfort listening" earbud, it works well with most genres and has a beautiful natural non-fatiguing character. Cable is nice, cheap model from aliexpress.

4. 19-21 HB in standard mx500 shell with standard horseshoe tuning. Sound is tight, crisp and mildly U/V shaped. It's a brighter more analytical sound but low bass is great. This reminds me of the Takstar Pro 80 but my build has better timbre and vocals. (Takstar is a big headphone so technically better to some degree of course but I enjoy the earbud's sound more) This is not my fav for vocals (still decent though), but very nice for anything that needs tight, fast, crispy signature. Cable is from B40.

5. 19-21 HB in modded Qian69 shell. This is the most fun sounding earbud from my builds. It has very impressive deep, punchy bass, midrange is full and smooth with a bit extra crispiness from the low treble, highs are exciting but not sharp. It's a very enjoyable U or L shaped sound, it gives the impression of a home theater system with subwoofer. The shell sits deeply in the ears so the sound is a bit more forward than mx500. Cable is B40 as well. (I had to enlarge the cable hole even for this, can't recommend thicker cables for this shell)


I really want to find shells like Qian69 because both the fit and sound is very good. For next year this will be my main DIY goal, get some bell shaped metal shells and proper glue finally  I have a bunch of unused shells like two pairs of wooden ones and some newer plastic models but they are unusable without glue so they just sit in a box. Maybe it could be a nice group activity to shoot pictures of our unused stuff  Like speakers, cables, shells, salvaged parts, anything that is "in the box waiting to be useful"


----------



## furyossa (Dec 2, 2020)

I was just wondering where @robar disappeared and that Boom!!! 5 pairs at once This is a nice surprise man. I really like how Qian69 turned out
It is a real pity that no store sells shells for this model, and just imagine that this silver part is made of metal. That would be a "gem".


robar said:


> 1. Titanium 64ohm (what was the nickname?  )


Full titanium? The *Chief* . Like the chief of the tribe. The Composite (PU+Ti) version is *Half-Breed*.
The Chief has an above-average quantity of bass (thunder-bass) of all the drivers.
I don't know if Skullcandy and Beats can reach the bass level of the Chief.   


robar said:


> Maybe it could be a nice group activity to shoot pictures of our unused stuff  Like speakers, cables, shells, salvaged parts, anything that is "in the box waiting to be useful"


Interesting idea What if someone misunderstands and starts posting everything they have in their garage, auto parts, tools etc. That would be hilarious.


----------



## vygas

Thought that I'd post this here, these two pairs are my favourite buds soo far.



On the left is a titanium dome (red solder dot) driver with a cable from NSC Audio Store, they originally came with a mic cable but I replaced it since they deserved a re-cable. The bud on the right is actually just a re-cabled Nokia HDD-1, which uses the 150ohm red film driver that was later used in the PK1. I don't know what it is about these two buds but they just manage to knock out a lot of the others in my collection.


----------



## furyossa

vygas said:


> I don't know what it is about these two buds but they just manage to knock out a lot of the others in my collection.


I ask myself the same question. "Yin  yang"  Nice!


----------



## furyossa

RY audio store new cable RY-B2 for RY4S https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001645208660.html


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> I was just wondering where @robar disappeared and that Boom!!! 5 pairs at once This is a nice surprise man. I really like how Qian69 turned out
> It is a real pity that no store sells shells for this model, and just imagine that this silver part is made of metal. That would be a "gem".
> 
> Full titanium? The *Chief* . Like the chief of the tribe. The Composite (PU+Ti) version is *Half-Breed*.
> ...


Ah the Chief, of course  At my current tuning, the bass is tamed a little bit, still very deep but not overpowering in quantity, treble is still a bit too soft though for my taste. I like the 19-21s more, better details and dynamics for me, but that bass.. XD
Yes it's a pity that Qian69 is discontinued.. One of my DIY friends from facebook told me that he had great success with ME80 shell and 19-21, but that earbud is also discontinued argh..  I have no other choice than those mmcx metal shells, but they are pricey and need glue, need more motivation and pocket money lol. 

By the way I opened up the Qian39 a few days ago but didn't have the time to disassemble or took photos. I will post about it in the close future


----------



## robar (Dec 2, 2020)

Some new shell listings, not sure if you've seen these: black&transparent PK (two vented - original size?) and colored transparent MX500 sets at cklewis
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001781450925.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001774019628.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001774230028.html

Btw I'm still thinking about getting a very cheap but decent type-c dongle for portable/casual use. After a bit reading, I'm getting interested in the Charmtek TPR11 - this uses a Conexant chip which is said to be more powerful and musical compared to the sterile emotionless sound of the Realtek solutions. Any experience with these? I'm very interested in hearing what a 10usd dongle could offer, just need a decent smooth, not sharp dac instead of the crappy built-in chip of my portable devices


----------



## rprodrigues

assassin10000 said:


>



Hum..., according to your measurements,  it seems that those drivers have close (too)  sound signatures. They really sound close? If so, wouldn't it be the case to be unsure if the bery are really bery drivers?


----------



## vygas

robar said:


> Some new shell listings, not sure if you've seen these: black&transparent PK (original size?) and colored transparent MX500 sets at cklewis
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001781450925.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001774019628.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001774230028.html


iirc, those Pk shells are actually 14.8mm and not the 15.4mm ones people have been putting out recently. Though, it's better to contact CKLewis to make sure.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Ah the Chief, of course  At my current tuning, the bass is tamed a little bit, still very deep but not overpowering in quantity, treble is still a bit too soft though for my taste. I like the 19-21s more, better details and dynamics for me, but that bass.. XD
> Yes it's a pity that Qian69 is discontinued.. One of my DIY friends from facebook told me that he had great success with ME80 shell and 19-21, but that earbud is also discontinued argh..  I have no other choice than those mmcx metal shells, but they are pricey and need glue, need more motivation and pocket money lol.
> 
> By the way I opened up the Qian39 a few days ago but didn't have the time to disassemble or took photos. I will post about it in the close future


Which metal shells are we talking about?


----------



## robar (Dec 2, 2020)

vygas said:


> iirc, those Pk shells are actually 14.8mm and not the 15.4mm ones people have been putting out recently. Though, it's better to contact CKLewis to make sure.


None of the PK shells are 15.4mm, they are just a little bit bigger for the new style covers. (like B40 etc) Classic covers are too shallow for the new design but the diameter is still similar. Yep it's a good idea to ask the seller, but from the looks and 2-vent layout these really should be the classic style


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Some new shell listings, not sure if you've seen these: black&transparent PK (two vented - original size?) and colored transparent MX500 sets at cklewis
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001781450925.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001774019628.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001774230028.html
> ...


2nd link: I think that NiceHCK use this shells or I'm wrong?
3rd link: Is this Monk Plus shells?


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Hum..., according to your measurements,  it seems that those drivers have close (too)  sound signatures. They really sound close? If so, wouldn't it be the case to be unsure if the bery are really bery drivers?


Why do you doubt? 64ohm N55 is a good driver too


----------



## robar (Dec 2, 2020)

furyossa said:


> 2nd link: I think that NiceHCK use this shells or I'm wrong?
> 3rd link: Is this Monk Plus shells?


I guess so, but I have no idea  By metal shells, I think about the ones you recommend for example (now I could only find this, but there was a bit more expensive model too https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000173977762.html), or even some of the Openheart or the new open back JCALLY models could be interesting for modding.


----------



## rprodrigues

furyossa said:


> Why do you doubt? 64ohm N55 is a good driver too



I think that different materials would sound differently (even slightly) despite  sharing a same sound signature.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> I guess so, but I have no idea  By metal shells, I think about the ones you recommend for example (now I could only find this, but there was a bit more expensive model too https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000173977762.html), or even some of the Openheart or the new open back JCALLY models could be interesting for modding.


For these shells you don't need to use glue, for this you must.
I don't know about this.    Why did you show them to me


----------



## robar

rprodrigues said:


> I think that different materials would sound differently (even slightly) despite  sharing a same sound signature.


Not only materials, but different speakers also sound very differently even if the measurement looks the same. And the shells shape also matters a lot, how big it is, how deep it sits in the ear etc.


----------



## rprodrigues

robar said:


> Not only materials, but different speakers also sound very differently even if the measurement looks the same. And the shells shape also matters a lot, how big it is, how deep it sits in the ear etc.



Agreed.

I found some guys doubting about the 120 ohm drivers being really bery.


----------



## robar (Dec 2, 2020)

furyossa said:


> For these shells you don't need to use glue, for this you must.
> I don't know about this.    Why did you show them to me


Haha there is no going back now  And this one need glue as well? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000173977762.html
Btw Jietu sells the silver shell you linked second for much lower price (less than 4usd), but the shipping is high even for me (same as shell itself)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001399352072.html


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> I think that different materials would sound differently (even slightly) despite  sharing a same sound signature.


You are right. There is a difference in the speed of sound reproduction.
Similar story with 600ohm "Papa Bery" I 500ohm "Hellboi". Take a look at their frequency graphs. They are identical


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Haha there is no going back now  And this one need glue as well? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000173977762.html
> Btw Jietu sells the silver shell you linked second for much lower price (less than 4usd), but the shipping is high even for me (4usd)
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001399352072.html


Yes, I mentioned that already. These are the same shells from the second link, only in multiple colors


----------



## robar (Dec 2, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Yes, I mentioned that already. These are the same shells from the second link, only in multiple colors


Oh right I got confused. So the jietu one I linked is the 3rd, older model. And your link and my NSC link is the same model. The shells also need nicknames soon lol 

Btw anyone tried the JCALLY EP01? It's very cheap, looks comfortable and probably 15.4mm. But I only want to buy one for modding if the shell material is decent at least.


----------



## rprodrigues

robar said:


> Btw anyone tried the JCALLY EP01? It's very cheap, looks comfortable and probably 15.4mm. But I only want to buy one for modding if the shell material is decent at least.



https://m.facebook.com/groups/Earbu...09649776/?refid=18&ref=group_browse&__tn__=-R


----------



## robar (Dec 2, 2020)

rprodrigues said:


> https://m.facebook.com/groups/Earbu...09649776/?refid=18&ref=group_browse&__tn__=-R


yes that's my same question at the bottom of that post XD I found a review here where the guy even opens it up, apparently no or very little glue. By the look of that cover, this will be slightly smaller than regular 15.4mm, so probably glue will be needed for standard speakers. But I don't understand a word he says, I can only watch the visuals lol. Anyways, for the price of a vido this looks like a nice package, decent cable, comfy shell, I guess the speaker is not too bad either, just need an open back conversion and a little love in the form of tuning foam


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Oh right I got confused. So the jietu one I linked is the 3rd, older model. And your link and my NSC link is the same model. The shells also need nicknames soon lol
> 
> Btw anyone tried the JCALLY EP01? It's very cheap, looks comfortable and probably 15.4mm. But I only want to buy one for modding if the shell material is decent at least.


This model. Other colors look like plastic. See the aluminum part on the back. What do you think? I think "rivet" will probably go there.


----------



## robar (Dec 2, 2020)

furyossa said:


> This model. Other colors look like plastic. See the aluminum part on the back. What do you think? I think "rivet" will probably go there.


Yes, it begs to be drilled lol  For about 3usd it could be a nice little project don't you think haha? Good excuse to bring out our favorite lo-fi hardware tools

I put the cklewis listing into my cart, it slowly appears at many seller though. The bigger models look nice too, there is a metal open back with mmcx for about 15usd
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001764517664.html


----------



## furyossa

furyossa said:


> This model. Other colors look like plastic. See the aluminum part on the back. What do you think? I think "rivet" will probably go there.


About glue. You can find glue in any mobile phone service store. Also, you can buy glue sticks for a heat gun. Use a scalpel to cut small pieces and heat with a lighter


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Yes, it begs to be drilled lol  For about 3usd it could be a nice little project don't you think haha? Good excuse to bring out our favorite lo-fi hardware tools
> 
> I put the cklewis listing into my cart, it slowly appears at many seller though. The bigger models look nice too, there is a metal open back with mmcx for about 15usd
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001764517664.html


This is the same case. I tried to drill trough the back aluminum piece and because of the great heat the whole model fell apart in my hands
It is a very thick and stubborn part of the shell.


----------



## robar (Dec 2, 2020)

furyossa said:


> This is the same case. I tried to drill trough the back aluminum piece and because of the great heat the whole model fell apart in my hands
> It is a very thick and stubborn part of the shell.


Nono it's very different, the EP01 is asymmteric and plastic besides that little part at the top (which could also be plastic who knonws), shape is different, and inside it appear to be smooth on the video
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H474dd2e681e149678b2d703c2fe87cd5C.jpg


----------



## cheebs

I'm looking at the specs for the simphonio dragon 3, and they say the driver is 15.8mm? How big is the OD on that thing?


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> I played a bit with EQ in Peace. I just wanted to correct the bass and female vocals a little bit
> This is the W.I.P for 64ohm N55 (full foam)
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> _Preamp: -3 dB_
> ...



No problem. Your buds probably have significantly more mid-bass/lower mids, given the 'ports' you typically add to your builds. I would also guess your 'pinna' gain is lower than mine as well.



rprodrigues said:


> Hum..., according to your measurements,  it seems that those drivers have close (too)  sound signatures. They really sound close? If so, wouldn't it be the case to be unsure if the bery are really bery drivers?



They look close on the graph but sound way different.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Nono it's very different, the EP01 is asymmteric and plastic besides that little part at the top (which could also be plastic who knonws), shape is different, and inside it appear to be smooth on the video
> https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H474dd2e681e149678b2d703c2fe87cd5C.jpg


What I said was about the aluminum part on the back of the shell, not the shell itself. We're talking about drilling, right? Heavy-duty stuff, you know


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> No problem. Your buds probably have significantly more mid-bass/lower mids, given the 'ports' you typically add to your builds. I would also guess your 'pinna' gain is lower than mine as well.


I prefer a more spacious sound (open-back) than an intimate one (close-back). The only reason I use "ports". And yes, the sound can be sometimes warm, muddy, and even hollow which can be corrected by reducing the cavity size and the diameter of the port itself, but on the other hand this may increase soundstage (which I like) and get rid of the bright highs (which I can't stand).
For N55 I used some old JVC shells. These shells have a "front-back vent" covered with thick foam and a "rear vent" is through the stem. This design (smaller cavity) can push mids a bit forward. Ergonomics are not bad at all.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> I prefer a more spacious sound (open-back) than an intimate one (close-back). The only reason I use "ports". And yes, the sound can be sometimes warm, muddy, and even hollow which can be corrected by reducing the cavity size and the diameter of the port itself, but on the other hand this may increase soundstage (which I like) and get rid of the bright highs (which I can't stand).
> For N55 I used some old JVC shells. These shells have a "front-back vent" covered with thick foam and a "rear vent" is through the stem. This design (smaller cavity) can push mids a bit forward. Ergonomics are not bad at all.



I agree. Spacious sound is better than closed in. 

I find that the larger single vent newer PK style shells sound more open, due to larger internal volume. They just require waaaaay more work to fit the drivers.

That's part of the reason why the 'bell' shaped K's earbuds sound so good too probably.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 3, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> I agree. Spacious sound is better than closed in.


It doesn’t have to mean it’s better, it’s my personal preference. But that doesn’t mean I don’t like the intimate sound, after all, it depends a lot on the mood.
Nowadays, modern music makes a lot of use of artificial sound and effects, whether it is instruments or vocals. For that music spacious sound is better IMO
For quality records, natural sounds, live music, etc., both (spacious or closed in) can raise the mood to a special level, to the level of pure enjoyment,
and I hope that's why we love this hobby.


assassin10000 said:


> I find that the larger single vent newer PK style shells sound more open, due to larger internal volume. They just require waaaaay more work to fit the drivers.


Two things that are of great importance for the natural movement of the diaphragm and depend on the internal design of the shell are the pressure release and the reflection of the sound wave. The pressure release can be similar whether they are in question MX500, PK, DP100, metal shells because it depends on the total size of all ports.
What makes them different is the way the sound is reflected and its return speed. The size and shape of the cavity are "responsible" for this,
but also tuning filters and cable, which act as diffusers and absorbers.


assassin10000 said:


> That's part of the reason why the 'bell' shaped K's earbuds sound so good too probably.


I didn't like the sound of the original K's Bell-LB due to the anemic bass. Someone recently mentioned that there is a new "2020 edition". Is this a new model or it's the same model? Is there any difference in SQ?


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> I didn't like the sound of the original K's Bell-LB due to the anemic bass. Someone recently mentioned that there is a new "2020 edition". Is this a new model or it's the same model? Is there any difference in SQ?



Completely different sounding. The 2018 model was warm, smooth and detailed. More analog sounding. The 2020 is much more mainstream sounding, somewhat v-shaped.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Completely different sounding. The 2018 model was warm, smooth and detailed. More analog sounding. The 2020 is much more mainstream sounding, somewhat v-shaped.


Which one do you prefer 2018 or 2020? 
I really like the sleek look of the Titan version (blue and silver). The price is really high, the design is really top-notch, I just wonder how they sound?
 I can see from the graph that they have a literally "flat" sound


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Which one do you prefer 2018 or 2020?
> I really like the sleek look of the Titan version (blue and silver). The price is really high, the design is really top-notch, I just wonder how they sound?
> I can see from the graph that they have a literally "flat" sound



The 2020 version of the K's LBB.

I'm considering trying another style MMCX mod of the one I have, since I haven't sold it yet. I don't use fixed cable earbuds/iems much anymore, as I prefer to use either with my BT20S.

If I do I'll probably retune it more to my preference by removing some of the lower mids/upper bass and making the sound signature more similar to my DIY builds.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 3, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> The 2020 version of the K's LBB.
> 
> I'm considering trying another style MMCX mod of the one I have, since I haven't sold it yet. I don't use fixed cable earbuds/iems much anymore, as I prefer to use either with my BT20S.
> 
> If I do I'll probably retune it more to my preference by removing some of the lower mids/upper bass and making the sound signature more similar to my DIY builds.


Ask @Sam_L for the compensation file. He did an awesome job for Datura Pro.
I just can't believe how well they sound now. Aluminum coated driver for me sounds better than Ti. 
The original tuning was a disaster, without exaggeration


----------



## robar

An interesting question - have you tried building buds with apple lightning cable? One of my friends have a broken earpod and I was wondering if it's possible to salvage the cable and solder a new diy earbud on it. I guess the cable itself has a little dac in it and the speaker side is just standard connection, but not sure if it could drive a regular 15.4mm driver


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> An interesting question - have you tried building buds with apple lightning cable? One of my friends have a broken earpod and I was wondering if it's possible to salvage the cable and solder a new diy earbud on it. I guess the cable itself has a little dac in it and the speaker side is just standard connection, but not sure if it could drive a regular 15.4mm driver


Can you post some images? I don't know, are you consider maybe to build a lightning adapter  (lightning USB to female 3.5mm). Then U can use any buds with it.


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> Can you post some images? I don't know, are you consider maybe to build a lightning adapter  (lightning USB to female 3.5mm). Then U can use any buds with it.


I would just disassemble an earpod like this, desolder the.cable from the original speakers and use it for another build.
https://www.amazon.com/Apple-EarPods-Lightning-Connector-White/dp/B01M0GB8CC


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> An interesting question - have you tried building buds with apple lightning cable? One of my friends have a broken earpod and I was wondering if it's possible to salvage the cable and solder a new diy earbud on it. I guess the cable itself has a little dac in it and the speaker side is just standard connection, but not sure if it could drive a regular 15.4mm driver



I'm sure you could. It probably has a 16-32Ω driver with higher sensitivity. I'm sure a DIY driver 64Ω or less with good sensitivity will probably work.

If you want to get fancy add MMCX cable ends.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 4, 2020)

robar said:


> I would just disassemble an earpod like this, desolder the.cable from the original speakers and use it for another build.
> https://www.amazon.com/Apple-EarPods-Lightning-Connector-White/dp/B01M0GB8CC


This is probably the best idea. I looked at what the pinouts looked like on the lighting plug and it's a bit complicated. That's why some fake lighting adapters from Ali not support the mic. 
I also have a bad experience with the Ugreen USB-C adapter, when I play music there is a lot of background noise


----------



## robar

@furyossa @assassin10000 Thanks, will post if I have a chance to try this out 

Tomorrow I'll probably open the Qian39 and try out some tuning mods and maybe even check which 14.8mm cover fits on the shell


----------



## robar (Dec 5, 2020)

Here's the inside of Qian39. It's interesting to see how the two separate plastic pieces are put together. The tuning foam solution is also not usual, it's pushed in sideways into a slit instead of lying flat on the vents. It's very easy to open up but be careful to not break the speaker apart.




I also tried to tune it briefly by adding thin white horseshoe on the drivers (probably salvaged from B40) I'll play with it more but it can definitely tighten up the sound, so the original darkish muddiness is easily solvable. 

Someone asked from me few months ago to measure the effect of the on-driver foam, now I can show you.  There are 3 measurements on top of each other, one is the original state with no foam, the second is half of the holes covered by thin white, the third is fully covered by thin white. I included a graph with raw measurements and one where I simply aligned the graph at 1khz to better show the audible differences. As you can see, in this case (and with similar vent layout shells like mx500 etc) adding extra foam on driver improves low bass and most importantly, elevates the high-mids. (this is why I advice to remove foam from drivers if sound is too sharp in stock earbuds) The midrange below 1khz is pushed back, airiness improves a bit. Overall it creates a more V-shaped sound and makes the high mids sharper. Please note that the vents are covered with foam, so this is an additional layer of tuning, not by itself.

I think adding a little vent plus cover 2/3rd of the driver with foam would be the optimal next step, will try it later. Maybe I'll desolder one of the drivers first to check compatibility, but it seems like standard 14.8mm to me.

(as always, the two little bumps in the middle are added by my measurement setup, not part of sound signature)


----------



## robar (Dec 5, 2020)

Here's another recent example, I'm experimenting with the tuning of my 19-21 drivers in transparent DP100 shell. The shell is midcentric and muffled by default, so this is an instance when adding thin white horseshoe on driver vents is a good solution.

With bare drivers and thick foam on vents, the sound was too midcentric, forward and hollow for my taste. I added the exact same white horseshoes on the drivers that I used above on the qian39. Now the sound is much more lively and has a pleasant U-shape to it, the very forward and bit dull midrange now has nice position and a bit extra crispiness to it. (dp100 shell sits deeply in my ears so the position already accentuates the mids nad make the sound forward, this is what I want to compensate in tuning) The effect is similar to the post above, the range between 150hz and 1.5khz is pushed back, which makes the sound more U-shaped in return. Of course I'll work toward improving this even more (still my worst sounding 19-21 build though already more than decent), but this adjustment was a nice instant upgrade for today


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Here's the inside of Qian39. It's interesting to see how the two separate plastic pieces are put together. The tuning foam solution is also not usual, it's pushed in sideways into a slit instead of lying flat on the vents. It's very easy to open up but be careful to not break the speaker apart.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know why manufacturers decided to reduce the number of holes from the back of the driver. Qian39 has an old-school style with 17 holes.
It's a very unique shell and I like the shape of the inner cavity but the material inside (plastic), doesn't seem like a good choice in terms of resonance.
When I use shells like MX500 in most cases I don't use a thin white filter on the back of the driver because black thick foam on the shell vents already cover the driver 50-60% 
in the case when we use two short pieces and not full "horseshoe" length. For metallic shells, these side vents do not exist so a thin white filter is often used.


robar said:


> adding extra foam on driver improves low bass and most importantly, elevates the high-mids. (this is why I advice to remove foam from drivers if sound is too sharp in stock earbuds)


I think this happens because this filter slightly increases the pressure and absorbs a small amount of back sound wave, direct and indirect (reflected) which can cause additional vibrations if it strikes again in the diaphragm.


----------



## assassin10000

robar said:


> Someone asked from me few months ago to measure the effect of the on-driver foam, now I can show you.



I think we were talking about tuning then, it was probably me.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Here's another recent example, I'm experimenting with the tuning of my 19-21 drivers in transparent DP100 shell. The shell is midcentric and muffled by default, so this is an instance when adding thin white horseshoe on driver vents is a good solution.
> 
> With bare drivers and thick foam on vents, the sound was too midcentric, forward and hollow for my taste. I added the exact same white horseshoes on the drivers that I used above on the qian39. Now the sound is much more lively and has a pleasant U-shape to it, the very forward and bit dull midrange now has nice position and a bit extra crispiness to it. (dp100 shell sits deeply in my ears so the position already accentuates the mids nad make the sound forward, this is what I want to compensate in tuning) The effect is similar to the post above, the range between 150hz and 1.5khz is pushed back, which makes the sound more U-shaped in return. Of course I'll work toward improving this even more (still my worst sounding 19-21 build though already more than decent), but this adjustment was a nice instant upgrade for today


You are right about mid-centric sound in this shell. The shell is not as deep as MX500 and it has a better position ie fit in the ear. 
IMO this shell will be a good choice for drivers with recessed mids.
About tuning, it is obvious that there is no established rule, it mostly depends on the driver itself
For example, the original tuning on ShoonTH ESEP-01BL was whole "horseshoe" black foam on the driver with a sealed vent on one side.
The sound was intimate with narrow soundstage, forward mids, sub-bass is rolled off, mid-bass average quantity.
My setup: bare driver, both shell vents open, short pieces of black foam just over the shell vents. 
With this tuning, mids are still forward but I reduced the mid-bass quantity so now sub-bass is present to a small extent, and the soundstage is wide.


----------



## robar (Dec 5, 2020)

furyossa said:


> You are right about mid-centric sound in this shell. The shell is not as deep as MX500 and it has a better position ie fit in the ear.
> IMO this shell will be a good choice for drivers with recessed mids.
> About tuning, it is obvious that there is no established rule, it mostly depends on the driver itself
> For example, the original tuning on ShoonTH ESEP-01BL was whole "horseshoe" black foam on the driver with a sealed vent on one side.
> ...


Of course it depends on many factors. I don't use foam on driver in most cases either, just in midcentrix shells like this. I use a much thicker mx500 style driver which makes the dp100 quite bulky, it's not that thin comfy bud as it is with the thin native cover like yours. There might be differences in the shells also, mine is the oem transparent one, yours are original black plastic 
I'm quite satisfied with the current tuning, quite natural and balanced, I would trade a bit of high mids for a bit more low bass but that's about it. Finding a better shell would be more efficient. Will show the inside of mine after I played around with it a bit more  I have another pair of these shells, will try out more ideas on it.

(Btw I'm thinking about getting a sonata hd pro in the upcoming sale, do you earbud champs have experience with it?)


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Of course it depends on many factors. I don't use foam on driver in most cases either, just in midcentrix shells like this. I use a much thicker mx500 style driver which makes the dp100 quite bulky, it's not that thin comfy bud as it is with the thin native cover like yours. There might be differences in the shells also, mine is the oem transparent one, yours are original black plastic
> I'm quite satisfied with the current tuning, quite natural and balanced, I would trade a bit of high mids for a bit more low bass but that's about it. Finding a better shell would be more efficient. Will show the inside of mine after I played around with it a bit more  I have another pair of these shells, will try out more ideas on it.
> 
> (Btw I'm thinking about getting a sonata hd pro in the upcoming sale, do you earbud champs have experience with it?)


I agree. Also I don't know about you but DP100 has a really nice fit, it sit in their ears in a supine position which I can't say for MX500
The plastic material of DP100 seems to me to be the same, one is black-colored (not painted) and another is transparent. MX500 and PK use a different plastic for the opaque version.

You already know how much I like balanced Amp/DAC devices. 
I own two "dongle" devices: Hidizs SonataHD (SE |  2x60mW @ 32Ω ) and iBasso DC01 (balanced 113mW @ 32Ω ).
I think that SonataHD uses Sabre chip and iBasso AK chip. Anyway, I like SonataHD more. 
iBasso gets too hot after a short period of use, the only thing I don't like about the SonataHD are the 3 types of firmware. 

*SONATA _HD-A_Call priority*: this firmware can make the Sonata HD cable priority to handle the call. 
*SONATA _HD-C_Sound priority: *this firmware can make the Sonata HD cable priority to handle the sound
*SONATA _HD-D_Pure music: *this firmware can maximize the Sonata HD cable sound enhance ability, but the call function will not be available under this mode.
I think HD-A is default and you need to install HD-D.  Also, SonataHD and iBasso consume the phone battery very quickly, and SonataHD has support only for Qualcomm processor.


----------



## robar (Dec 5, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I agree. Also I don't know about you but DP100 has a really nice fit, it sit in their ears in a supine position which I can't say for MX500
> The plastic material of DP100 seems to me to be the same, one is black-colored (not painted) and another is transparent. MX500 and PK use a different plastic for the opaque version.
> 
> You already know how much I like balanced Amp/DAC devices.
> ...


The DP100 has nice fit, especially with the native thin cover but it's ok with the big cover as well. Personally I really like the fit of mx500 shell too (with trig rain donuts) and with big covers they are more comfortable in the long term for me, but more prone to getting loose. If I get a good driver with thin cover that's on the level of 19-21, I'll definitely put it on the dp100 in place of the big cover one. With the native dp100 cover it'd definitely be a great sleeping bud.

Thanks for the info, if I read correctly thoughl the Tempotec  HD Pro doesn't have such options for firmware and it uses CS431341 chip. It's said to be the same internal as Hidizs S8 and a big improvement over the older HD. For me the detachable cable and dedicated volume control is a very big plus, it's also said to be quite powerful for a dongle if high gain mode is activated by plugging in an extension cable before connecting the earbud.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 6, 2020)

For the last two days, I have been listening and comparing 64ohm N55, HE150Pro, and FAAEAL DaturaPro, for which @Sam_L did an excellent job with compensation files.
I'm not a big fan of using EQ, especially when it comes to pre-made presets but I accept EQ correction if it can contribute to even a small improvement in the sound, like in this case. These files nicely "iron out" certain irregularities in the original tuning. Of course, it doesn't mean that everyone will like what they hear after this correction.
It takes some time for the brain to adapt to the new sound. What I noticed is that even if this correction tries to bring the frequency curve as close as possible to the target curve, the sound is different on every bud. What I like most is the improvement in the clarity of the sound.
Based on @assassin10000 model, a correction file was made for 64ohm N55. Because we use different shells and tuning this EQ adjustment is not good as for the other models.

As for the HE150Pro, the low end is adjusted perfectly. Clarity is much better.

The biggest surprise is DaturaPro. The original tuning is similar to buds in the $1-3 price range.
I was so disappointed because I couldn’t believe how such a beautiful and well-made model could have such a bad sound.
The design and build quality alone justify the $30 price tag. Also, I wouldn't classify this driver as budget-friendly
DaturaPro uses an aluminum-coated driver which is the main reason for buying this model. The first driver made of pure aluminum was used for Meze Rai Solo.
Of course, the DaturaPro driver doesn't use the advanced technology of Rai Solo but all the good characteristics of the aluminum coating can be noticed.
After EQ adjustment with Sam_L's files, sound clarity, and balance between different frequencies are higher than regular PU diaphragm drivers.
There is also less distortion at higher volumes than other drivers with the same impedance.
Low-end is very well controlled, more quality than quantity, clean mids with good separation between vocals and instruments., 3D soundstage, imaging is slightly above average, highs are on the brighter side (at least for me) but not harsh or sibilant. If this driver had an impedance greater than 150ohm I would rank it quite high but for now in the first five. This drive has really huge potential, with small corrections it could be a serious "flagship killer"


Themilkman46290 said:


> Has anyone noticed any new mid to high end drivers?


I hope you have the answer


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> The DP100 has nice fit, especially with the native thin cover but it's ok with the big cover as well. Personally I really like the fit of mx500 shell too (with trig rain donuts) and with big covers they are more comfortable in the long term for me, but more prone to getting loose. If I get a good driver with thin cover that's on the level of 19-21, I'll definitely put it on the dp100 in place of the big cover one. With the native dp100 cover it'd definitely be a great sleeping bud.
> 
> Thanks for the info, if I read correctly thoughl the Tempotec  HD Pro doesn't have such options for firmware and it uses CS431341 chip. It's said to be the same internal as Hidizs S8 and a big improvement over the older HD. For me the detachable cable and dedicated volume control is a very big plus, it's also said to be quite powerful for a dongle if high gain mode is activated by plugging in an extension cable before connecting the earbud.


Can you post the link to see which model you want to buy?
I plan later this month to buy this little device iRigStream. I own a Dayton iMM-6 mic but I need some simple audio interface to be able to use it with a laptop.

I wonder what kind of device it is in the background


----------



## robar (Dec 5, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Can you post the link to see which model you want to buy?
> I plan later this month to buy this little device iRigStream. I own a Dayton iMM-6 mic but I need some simple audio interface to be able to use it with a laptop.
> 
> I wonder what kind of device it is in the background



Device in the background? Probably a mandatory accessory for mad scientists 

Here's a review about the sonata hd pro, I plan to buy the "android version" (just means included cable type) from official tempotec store on aliexpress. Compatible with everything, knows 32bit 384khz dsd, pretty impressive specs.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nobsau...-cheapest-high-fidelity-dac-amp-delicacy/amp/

Btw, have you tried to open up and tune the datura pro yourself? Faaeal is pretty bad at tuning from what I saw, they like warm muddy lows and sharp midhighs. Maybe it's a Chinese taste thing I don't know. The graph of datura pro from the round-up thread looks very similar to what I measured for the Z-sound. The Rosemary is smooth in then mids but also warm and muddy to some degree. There is just a bit foam on the speaker and then popped into the empty shell, not exactly sophisticated for a 20usd earbud.
I normally don't use EQ but I experimented with it based on measurements with great success. I like to look at it as a final adjustment to reach a devices full potential and tailor for the individual listeners ears/taste. But I think it's the best to bring out as much potential as possible with physical tuning before applying EQ.


----------



## furyossa

Reminds a little of Hiduzs S8. Porta-fi has some interesting reviews for these DAC/amp combos.
I planned to open the DaturaPro shell but since I pretty much damaged the DX5 last time when opening it, I gave up on DaturaPro.
They probably use black horseshoe foam, I don't see what can be done more for this type of shell. 
I think the problem here is with the hardware tuning. This is a bit unique and a new driver which probably requires much more attention.
What is interesting is that at higher volumes, without EQ, this driver sounds harsh and distorted but applying the EQ, at the same volume level, the sound is crystal clear.
That confused me the most. Voodoo magic


----------



## Vannak

Hello good people 
I am beginner 
So I want to build my first earbuds prefer MX500 
I would like your suggestions 
About which drivers to use? 
And how to apply foam 
I prefer
.spacious and balanced sound 
Thanks in advance


----------



## Vannak

I'm interested in these two drivers


----------



## furyossa

Vannak said:


> I'm interested in these two drivers


68ohm graphene is a relatively new driver so you would probably be the first person to try it. 
The price is a bit higher but from my experience, I never had a problem with the graphene driver, either a branded model or DIY is in question.
And yes, graphene-coated drivers mostly have a balanced sound, which I wouldn't say for Titanium-coated.


----------



## Vannak

furyossa said:


> 68ohm graphene is a relatively new driver so you would probably be the first person to try it.
> The price is a bit higher but from my experience, I never had a problem with the graphene driver, either a branded model or DIY is in question.
> And yes, graphene-coated drivers mostly have a balanced sound, which I wouldn't say for Titanium-coated.



Thanks! 
After they arrive I will ask more advice on how to apply the foam 🙏


----------



## furyossa (Dec 6, 2020)

Vannak said:


> Hello good people
> I am beginner
> So I want to build my first earbuds prefer MX500
> I would like your suggestions
> ...


If you choose to go with a graphene driver then you can try first something simple. BTW... this driver probably comes with a pair of MX500 shells and two black foam filters.
This is a nice example by @robar of how to place properly the black foam
The driver itself has a white filter on the back. The only thing left is to solder the cables and close the shell (without the glue of course) 
I will suggest for this driver a minimum of 40h burn-in.


----------



## robar (Dec 6, 2020)

Vannak said:


> Thanks!
> After they arrive I will ask more advice on how to apply the foam 🙏


You can simply put the horseshoe on the vents of the shell for a first try. If you find the sound to be too flat or bright then you can experiment with cutting up the foam into smaller pieces that only cover the holes, you can even leave a hole open if you want more bass. Because the driver already has a white foam on it, it's quite possible that you will need this partial solution. I suggest to buy a pack of tuning foams (easiest way is to buy a set of 5 mx500 shells for like 2-3usd, they come with appropriate foams) I look forward to your impressions of the 68ohm  If you have a bit spare money, try out the 19-21 heavy bass as well, it costs like 3.75usd or so 

Btw @furyossa About the tuning you linked from me, I decided to remove that inner square between the two strips, it decreased the low bass for me without any improvement in other frequencies.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 6, 2020)

robar said:


> If you have a bit spare money, try out the 19-21 heavy bass as well, it costs like 3.75usd or so


I will go with 5 five pairs just in case  
I'm not kidding. A similar example for the price. Take a look at this, how can it cost so little?


robar said:


> Btw @furyossa About the tuning you linked from me, I decided to remove that inner square between the two strips, it decreased the low bass for me without any improvement in other frequencies


I forgot to mention that I was just thinking about covering the side ports only


----------



## robar (Dec 6, 2020)

furyossa said:


> I will go with 5 five pairs just in case
> I'm not kidding. A similar example for the price. Take a look at this, how can it cost so little?
> 
> I forgot to mention that I was just thinking about covering the side ports only


There are gems everywhere  Like my Dac Audio ES9018K2M, it's said to be almost as good as AQ Dragonfly Red, and it's only 20usd. No comment lol
We can at least compensate the wasted money on other useless parts and bad purchases haha


----------



## furyossa (Dec 6, 2020)

robar said:


> There are gems everywhere  Like my Dac Audio ES9018K2M, it's said to be almost as good as AQ Dragonfly Red, and it's only 20usd. No comment lol
> We can at least compensate the wasted money on other useless parts and bad purchases haha


That's what I'm talking about.
And then you see something like this  
End GAME
At least shipping is "only"  *US $142.07 *


----------



## robar (Dec 6, 2020)

furyossa said:


> That's what I'm talking about.
> And then you see something like this
> End GAME
> At least shipping is "only"  *US $142.07 *


The problem is: too small to be a nice decoration, for this money I would want something bigger to show off in my theoretical dubai office haha, at least a headphone or speaker. To be more serious, I have no idea why people would buy something like this lol. It's not even a good investment I guess

Then you can get this for 15usd, only the hardware itself would cost 2x if bought separately 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001185272588.html

I would also be interested in this 9usd bud  for modding purposes if I knew for sure that it's compatible with mx500 speakers https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001764256748.html

Btw anyone tried to mod the Kbear Knight? I know it doesn't sound too nice by default, but I would swap the speakers and improve the tuning like with Qian69. It gets cheaper in some stores recently like here. It would be nice if it could snap on mx500 covers without glue..


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> The problem is: too small to be a nice decoration, for this money I would want something bigger to show off in my theoretical dubai office haha, at least a headphone or speaker. To be more serious, I have no idea why people would buy something like this lol. It's not even a good investment I guess
> 
> Then you can get this for 15usd, only the hardware itself would cost 2x if bought separately
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001185272588.html
> ...


And this is also ridiculous https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001764517664.html
These models are really cheap and for that reason, I don't see the need to do some experiments and use different diameters for covers.
For the first few images, they use 3D renders as promo material, and below you can see real photos. They use a standard "mesh" cover for a 15.4mm driver


----------



## robar (Dec 6, 2020)

furyossa said:


> And this is also ridiculous https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001764517664.html
> These models are really cheap and for that reason, I don't see the need to do some experiments and use different diameters for covers.
> For the first few images, they use 3D renders as promo material, and below you can see real photos. They use a standard "mesh" cover for a 15.4mm driver


There is no standard mesh sadly, I bought a couple of earbuds just because they had 15.4mm steel mesh cover and many of those were more like 15mm, very loose for real 15.4mm cover and would need a ton of glue. The N50 red rim has the best steel mesh cover from what I tried, it's compatible with everything and almost as thin as the DP100 cover. Most speakers use different kind of steel mesh that is either very loose or too tight for most diy shells

Yes I plan to try that cheap jcally, only the low quality shiny plastic puts me off for now

Btw anyone tried or ordered these drivers? The only one I could find now with the thin DP100 cover. I guess this is more like a classic midcentric type speaker, but the fit would be great with dp100 and bigger shells. There was a variant of N52 driver also with dp100 cover (which I use with mx760 shell) but it disappeared from NSC and it's only available for ridiculous prices.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000898923123.html


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> There is no standard mesh sadly, I bought a couple of earbuds just because they had 15.4mm steel mesh cover and many of those were more like 15mm, very loose for real 15.4mm cover and would need a ton of glue. The N50 red rim has the best steel mesh cover from what I tried, it's compatible with everything and almost as thin as the DP100 cover. Most speakers use different kind of steel mesh that is either very loose or too tight for most diy shells
> 
> Yes I plan to try that cheap jcally, only the low quality shiny plastic puts me off for now
> 
> ...


Yup these covers are a bit wider than MX500.
This is also an interesting offer for mmcx connectors


----------



## robar (Dec 6, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Yup these covers are a bit wider than MX500.
> This is also an interesting offer for mmcx connectors


I'll go through my covers, doing a little comparison post with photos could be a nice idea 

Btw, this driver I linked an hour ago looks the same as you shoonth's driver  (based on this image) I guess the internal parts are different, but the circuit and vent style is very very similar
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000898923123.html


----------



## Vannak

furyossa said:


> If you choose to go with a graphene driver then you can try first something simple. BTW... this driver probably comes with a pair of MX500 shells and two black foam filters.
> This is a nice example by @robar of how to place properly the black foam
> The driver itself has a white filter on the back. The only thing left is to solder the cables and close the shell (without the glue of course)
> I will suggest for this driver a minimum of 40h burn-in.


Big thanks!


----------



## Vannak

Thank you all
You guys are so helpful 💯👍


----------



## furyossa (Dec 6, 2020)

robar said:


> I'll go through my covers, doing a little comparison post with photos could be a nice idea
> 
> Btw, this driver I linked an hour ago looks the same as you shoonth's driver  (based on this image) I guess the internal parts are different, but the circuit and vent style is very very similar
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000898923123.html


Wait, what? You are Sherlock Holms for driver discovery. 
Man, this is exactly the same driver from the back. The front cover shape is the same but these center holes are sealed.





They didn't post any spec for this driver. Are you tried maybe MX7660 shell. I assume that is most similar to DP100
This is the spec for ShoonTH

Sensitivity: 110dB/mW
Impedance: 32Ω
Frequency response range: 10hz-22KHz
BTW...sad news. The left driver starts to lose volume. It's a bit quieter.
I don't know, maybe soldering is not good. I opened them a few times for tuning so maybe wire broke.
I hope that is not voice coil wire


----------



## robar (Dec 6, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Wait, what? You are Sherlock Holms for driver discovery.
> Man, this is exactly the same driver from the back. The front cover shape is the same but these center holes are sealed.
> 
> 
> ...


In aliexpress the sellers often use the names mx760 and dp100 cover interchangeably, I think there was some difference in the original designs but now they all the same variation. Your cover appears to be slightly curved, I think it could be one of the original designs.  The covers I have are completely flat and yes most of the inner holes are also opened. Look at this for example, I have the dp100 shells from here and the driver I bought in NSC store with the mx760 shell is also the exact same design https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000298687782.html


----------



## furyossa

I updated the image in the previous post. 
ShoonTH cover is different. All inner holes are closed, and all outer opened.
Anyway...you have this driver or you plan to buy it?
Chances are it's the same driver but it may have been tuned differently by ShoonTH.
I wonder what their flagship 150ohm driver looks like. I have never seen an old-school 150ohm driver (17 back holes). You?

BTW... still in the burn-in phase


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> I updated the image in the previous post.
> ShoonTH cover is different. All inner holes are closed, and all outer opened.
> Anyway...you have this driver or you plan to buy it?
> Chances are it's the same driver but it may have been tuned differently by ShoonTH.
> ...


Nice, keep me updated on your progress 
No I don't have that driver, just in my wishlist. Somebody should definitely try it


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Nice, keep me updated on your progress
> No I don't have that driver, just in my wishlist. Somebody should definitely try it


I will but right now "my hands are tied".  5 or more pairs probably   
Again, you and your "New Arrivals" info.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Nice, keep me updated on your progress
> No, I don't have that driver, just on my wishlist. Somebody should definitely try it


Funny story. I order this HD25 Light in some local audio store (price 110 euro). They offer 3 models on their website: HD25, HD25 Plus, HD25 Light. All 3 models share the same driver specs. The difference in price between these is 40-50euros. "Plus" version costs almost double because of accessories (spare cable, spare earpads, bag).
They sent me an old version of HD25Light which I think came out in 2002. What's funny is that this version doesn't exist on their site at all.
When I informed them of a mistake they had made, their justification was that the salesman didn't know about the old and new models. 
First of all this store does not sell groceries but audio devices and instruments, and 2nd, the packaging is totally different.
What is interesting is that a new version is being made in Romania
The good thing is that I had the opportunity to test both models. The difference in sound very noticeable. The old version is cut at both ends.


----------



## jogawag

The Yincrow RW-9 has too much volume and it is bleeding a bit into the mids.
So I sealed the six vents on each side behind the RW-9's MX500 shell. (sealing the top slit vent on the back is overkill) The resulted in moderately tighter bass and a best sound atmospherically close to the RW-2000.

I just put two 8mm diameter circular masking paper tape paches on each sides of the shell.
It looks bad, but I don't care about it because it is hidden by foam.

If you have a RW-9, give it a try!


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> The Yincrow RW-9 has too much volume and it is bleeding a bit into the mids.
> So I sealed the six vents on each side behind the RW-9's MX500 shell. (sealing the top slit vent on the back is overkill) The resulted in moderately tighter bass and a best sound atmospherically close to the RW-2000.
> 
> I just put two 8mm diameter circular masking paper tape paches on each sides of the shell.
> ...


You can try with hot glue from inside. You can remove it any time later. 
Also, you can try to seal only one side, something similar was done by the creators of ShoonTH ESEP-01BL*. * Take a look first image from this post.


----------



## jogawag (Dec 8, 2020)

furyossa said:


> You can try with hot glue from inside. You can remove it any time later.
> Also, you can try to seal only one side, something similar was done by the creators of ShoonTH ESEP-01BL*. * Take a look first image from this post.


Can I try with BLU-TACK from inside instead of hot glue?


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Can I try with BLU-TACK from inside instead of hot glue?


Of course. Also, bubble gum can be used . You have 6 side ports (3 on each side), right?. Try to seal one side (3 ports) or all 6 and then punch a small hole on each side. 
In the end, you can share the final solution


----------



## Vannak

Hello
How do you guys think of this? 
It is cheap for a berry


----------



## Themilkman46290

Vannak said:


> Hello
> How do you guys think of this?
> It is cheap for a berry


Look for nsc audio store, they should have a few good deals, I ordered from there, I ordered my 130 bery from there, with a y5 paper tuning cotton and a black foam on the shell and a 0.5 mm whole in the center of the back of the mx500 shell, you should get great sound. Jietu store has a good price for the 130ohm decidula beryllium driver


----------



## assassin10000

Vannak said:


> Hello
> How do you guys think of this?
> It is cheap for a berry



I think I'm still the only one that's used them so far. Although I think another member ordered them too recently.


First listen with only foam on vent for tuning:


assassin10000 said:


> Finally had a listen to those 14.8mm 120Ω beryllium drivers.
> 
> Impressions w/foam covers: they are overly warm and a bit too mid-centric. The highs are there but overshadowed. Bass is present but rolls off towards sub-bass (as expected).
> 
> Impressions w/o foams: warm, mid-centric but the highs are not as overshadowed. Bass is there but even lighter and will be highly fit dependant.



More info:


assassin10000 said:


> Did a little more fine tuning on the 14.8mm 120Ω beryllium drivers and with my USB-C dac they are playing in the same realm as the 150Ω redfilm pk1 drivers. These definitely require a bit more power & EQ to sound their best, goes from 2nd tier DIY driver to near top tier IMO.
> 
> On the BT20S they are not quite as dynamic sounding (slightly dry or less 'wet' sounding) and treble/detail/air is slightly less.
> 
> ...





assassin10000 said:


> If you are looking for a higher impedance 14.8mm driver and will be driving these with a good source, I would say they could be worth it.
> 
> I think I'm the only one here that currently has them, so I'm guessing it was me that said that  . And it is true without tuning (just the shell and foam on vent) the bass was terribly rolled off, about -22db from 200hz. I posted a graph showing this here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/goto/post?id=15846712
> ...





assassin10000 said:


> I find the 120Ω Berylliums borderline too polite in the upper mid-range/lower treble and lacking resolution/detail unless they are provided more power than a typical cellphone output.


----------



## Vannak

Themilkman46290 said:


> Look for nsc audio store, they should have a few good deals, I ordered from there, I ordered my 130 bery from there, with a y5 paper tuning cotton and a black foam on the shell and a 0.5 mm whole in the center of the back of the mx500 shell, you should get great sound. Jietu store has a good price for the 130ohm decidula beryllium driver


Thanks!


----------



## captione (Dec 9, 2020)

Hey guys, it's been a long time since I replied here.
Man, kinda sucks that I broke three drivers in the past three months of modding... Well that won't stop me LOL

BTW, I found a really interesting driver: It's a 44ohm 15.4mm driver. Probably the same drivers as the OP 139 perhaps? Indonesia has alot of good oddball drivers and thank god they're selling here now.


Spoiler: Picture










Also, I'm planning to continue the DP100 shell build I broke by buying the same drivers @furyossa had with the Shooth but it's a bit different that it has black epoxy in the coil connection and an MX500 faceplate, really curious but I'm gonna try it. I was supposed to use the Jcally EP01 driver but it broke, and the sound wasn't up to my liking anyway...
They're supposedly called "MX360 Sennheiser Classical drivers", quotation marks* being that I don't believe shopee listings sometimes lol


Spoiler: Picture


----------



## furyossa (Dec 9, 2020)

captione said:


> Hey guys, it's been a long time since I replied here.
> Man, kinda sucks that I broke three drivers in the past three months of modding... Well that won't stop me LOL
> 
> BTW, I found a really interesting driver: It's a 44ohm 15.4mm driver. Probably the same drivers as the OP 139 perhaps? Indonesia has alot of good oddball drivers and thank god they're selling here now.
> ...



That's the spirit. Never give up.  
I haven't noticed the first driver so far. 2nd driver looks like ShoonTH but is not.
The other day @robar posted this link, and here is another offer for 5 pairs. I can't find any specifications for these drivers on Ali.
It seems to me that Sennheiser made two types of drivers, one for MX360 and the others for MX760, and there is a good chance that ShoonTH took the same driver parts from MX760 and build you own model. This is their description from the Penon store:
*Description*
_This earphone adds a resistor to share some of the power and reduce the tooth tone of the silver-plated cable to make up the low-frequency feel of the silver-plated cable. We have tested various resistors about 60-200Ω, and we found 120Ω 1% is the best. We also tested the resistance and metal film resistance, and the metal film resistance is more rounded and full.
*Handmade*_
_We select 350 pairs from 1000 pairs of units, 350 pairs from 3000 resistors and the test unit should be on the electronic ear. As a wire tuner, every earphone must pass our audition twice to be a good product. The good sound comes from pure hand-made, creating exclusive HIFI equipment for you._

*ShoonTH ESEP-01BL* spec is: Sensitivity: 110dB/mW ; Impedance: 32Ω ; Freq. range: 10hz-22KHz ; Price: $26.90 ; Cable: very very cheap
*ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE*  spec is: Sensitivity: 109dB/mW ; Impedance: 150Ω ; Freq. range: 8Hz-25KHz  ; Price: $119 ; Cable: FURUKAWA
*ShoonTH  ESEP-01BU*  spec is: Sensitivity: 109dB/mW ; Impedance: 150Ω ; Freq. range: 10HZ-30KHZ  ; Price: $219  ; Cable: FURUKAWA-OCC 

Maybe the cheaper model has the same driver as on the Ali, but these 150ohm's are custom made. Its certainly a mystery


----------



## coflaes

furyossa said:


> That's the spirit. Never give up.
> I haven't noticed the first driver so far. 2nd driver looks like ShoonTH but is not.
> The other day @robar posted this link, and here is another offer for 5 pairs. I can't find any specifications for these drivers on Ali.
> It seems to me that Sennheiser made two types of drivers, one for MX360 and the others for MX760, and there is a good chance that ShoonTH took the same driver parts from MX760 and build you own model. This is their description from the Penon store:
> ...


Dude, they are not custom made... IS the same driver with a 120ohm metal resistor


----------



## furyossa (Dec 9, 2020)

coflaes said:


> Dude, they are not custom made... IS the same driver with a 120ohm metal resistor


Maybe I used the wrong word but adding that resistor or anything else that would change the specification itself, certainly makes it different from the original


----------



## captione

They probably applied those modding techniques used on big speakers.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 9, 2020)

captione said:


> They probably applied those modding techniques used on big speakers.


A multi-winding voice coil is usually used in the case of a higher impedance, but here it is achieved by using a resistor 
This is funny. Take a look first driver on this video 

And the mystery has been revealed


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> A multi-winding voice coil is usually used in the case of a higher impedance, but here it is achieved by using a resistor
> This is funny. Take a look first driver on this video



Yep, that's exactly it!


----------



## furyossa

Now the only question is how to change the frequency response. Maybe with better plug and cable?


----------



## Themilkman46290

Just wanted to say, I have been playing with my wifes 130ohm "8 pack" (birthday present for the better half) ,and I have reached a point using mx500 shells from my seahf 400ohm (recabled and rebodied) here are a few pics
I drilled two 0.5mm holes, 

First hole drilled from inside to open the bass vent

The second hole was straight through the back


Then I tried different paper and foam tuning peices cut to fit over the holes 




In the end, they ended up with slightly less but more linear sounding sub bass and slightly more upper highs compared to my samsara. 
It's fairly impressive, the detail retrieval of these is just amazing
I would have to say these might have taken my number 1 place for now...... 


Using a y5 cotton paper and 7/1mm foam on the shell and a 10/1mm peice of foam inside the shell


----------



## Vannak

Themilkman46290 said:


> Look for nsc audio store, they should have a few good deals, I ordered from there, I ordered my 130 bery from there, with a y5 paper tuning cotton and a black foam on the shell and a 0.5 mm whole in the center of the back of the mx500 shell, you should get great sound. Jietu store has a good price for the 130ohm decidula beryllium driver


Thanks for the tips 💯😀


----------



## Vannak

Themilkman46290 said:


> Just wanted to say, queyinfang store has a new thick cable, it's thick but very soft and super limp, I bought it for another project, but my samsara's cable had broken so I decided to use it on them, took a little dish soap to get them in the shell but they look good.
> 
> They don't feel heavy, even though the cable looks as it should be uncomfortable, it's actually very comfortable
> And you can get 5 meters for 15 bucks


Could you please explain how to solder the silver plated wire on the earbuds driver 
I tried but no luck 
The sound seems to be very weak 
🙏


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Dec 9, 2020)

Vannak said:


> Could you please explain how to solder the silver plated wire on the earbuds driver
> I tried but no luck
> The sound seems to be very weak
> 🙏


Flux the cable, clean your soldering tip with a cellulose sponge, I use a cheap 5 doller soldering iron with thermostat set to 400°c. Then I put solder on it, touch the tip to the cable for a second until solder is obsorbed. Then add more solder to the tip, press your cable against the speakers contacts, touch with the molten solder for half a second (try to make sure you work as fast as possible, longer then a couple of seconds can damage alot) then breath.....

Not sure it makes a difference but I use solder with 3.7% silver


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Just wanted to say, I have been playing with my wifes 130ohm "8 pack" (birthday present for the better half) ,and I have reached a point using mx500 shells from my seahf 400ohm (recabled and rebodied) here are a few pics
> I drilled two 0.5mm holes,
> 
> First hole drilled from inside to open the bass vent
> ...


You are such a romantic, great birthday present. Also, the overall look (cable color and transparent shell combo) is beautiful.
It would be great to have multicolored filter-foams, you can always improvise but it's great like this also. 
It's important to see the abs (8-packs) through a transparent shell
Did you finish the renovation?


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Dec 9, 2020)

furyossa said:


> You are such a romantic, great birthday present. Also, the overall look (cable color and transparent shell combo) is beautiful.
> It would be great to have multicolored filter-foams, you can always improvise but it's great like this also.
> It's important to see the abs (8-packs) through a transparent shell
> Did you finish the renovation?


No, I think it will drag out for ever (renovation) our income isn't as Good as it was before the covid.

But I am thinking of cheating a bit and ordering those 68ohm drivers.......


Here is a picture of the finished buds


----------



## furyossa (Dec 9, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> No, I think it will drag out for ever (renovation) our income isn't as Good as it was before the covid.
> 
> But I am thinking of cheating a bit and ordering those 68ohm drivers.......
> 
> ...


I don't think it will hurt the budget that is intended for renovation, only if you don't plan to buy something else related to audio gear
Matchy-matchy! It looks amazing. I hope your "better half" will be thrilled.
You've outdone yourself, man. Just look at that Y-splitter. One of this will match all colors 




BTW...Don't say a word to her about 68ohm graphene


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> I don't think it will hurt the budget that is intended for renovation, only if you don't plan to buy something else related to audio gear
> Matchy-matchy! It looks amazing. I hope your "better half" will be thrilled.
> You've outdone yourself, man. Just look at that Y-splitter. One of this will match all colors
> 
> ...


Nice foams, you I need more colours, did you get them from Alliexpress?


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Nice foams, you I need more colours, did you get them from Alliexpress?


Yup. From Ali but can't remember where I find these.
I remember ordering something from here
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32966078827.html


----------



## Vannak

Themilkman46290 said:


> Flux the cable, clean your soldering tip with a cellulose sponge, I use a cheap 5 doller soldering iron with thermostat set to 400°c. Then I put solder on it, touch the tip to the cable for a second until solder is obsorbed. Then add more solder to the tip, press your cable against the speakers contacts, touch with the molten solder for half a second (try to make sure you work as fast as possible, longer then a couple of seconds can damage alot) then breath.....
> 
> Not sure it makes a difference but I use solder with 3.7% silver


Thanks 
Ohhh I don't have the Flux 
I gonna find it 
Thanks


----------



## Themilkman46290

Vannak said:


> Thanks
> Ohhh I don't have the Flux
> I gonna find it
> Thanks


Flux is important, helps strip the enamel from the wire (aot of headphone wires have isolated inner wire, specially litz) and helps solder to stick, I suppose without Flux it me seem impossible 

Good luck, let us know how it goes


----------



## robar

Has anyone tried the violet 32ohm titanium drivers with steel mesh cover? The shopee listing says that this particular version is not compatible with mx500 shells, but I'm not sure why or to what extent. i've found a pretty good listing from a new seller on aliexpress, it even has select coupon by default. 
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqqfC4v


----------



## furyossa (Dec 10, 2020)

robar said:


> Has anyone tried the violet 32ohm titanium drivers with steel mesh cover? The shopee listing says that this particular version is not compatible with mx500 shells, but I'm not sure why or to what extent. i've found a pretty good listing from a new seller on aliexpress, it even has select coupon by default.
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqqfC4v


Good find. This store reminds me of JieTu Audio Store
I updated "the list of for DIY parts" post
Also, we can find this post by searching the name *DIY EARBUDS PARTS LIST*


----------



## robar (Dec 10, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Good find. This store reminds me of JieTu Audio Store
> I updated "the list of for DIY parts" post
> Also, we can find this post by searching the name *DIY EARBUDS PARTS LIST*


Yes, but shipping is lot cheaper for me and there are stuff that are not available at jietu. For example many kinds of wooden shell and some metal ones also. I'll definitely keep an eye on the new arrivals section of this seller 
Heres another interesting listing, this is 20pcs or pairs of vintage driver in weird cover for peanuts.  I'd say even if sound is not so good this could be a perfect cheap way for practicing soldering and tuning skills for beginners 
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNju61T


----------



## furyossa

We need to find out which buds use this driver  
There aren't that many products on sale probably because it's new.
I noticed that it has really good discounts. 600ohm Bery is $38. NSC is king after all $36. And other stores sell it for $42
You are right about shipping: for me, XinYue shipping  $106.56  and NSC  $113.66   It's really cheaper  
I'm really glad that new stores for DIY parts are appearing from time to time.


----------



## captione

robar said:


> Has anyone tried the violet 32ohm titanium drivers with steel mesh cover? The shopee listing says that this particular version is not compatible with mx500 shells, but I'm not sure why or to what extent. i've found a pretty good listing from a new seller on aliexpress, it even has select coupon by default.
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqqfC4v



I have one. Very easy to drive, the whole signature is lean and the bass is just right, sparkly sound signature. They might be the same with the red dot normal ones because it's basically the upgrade on those, gonna buy one this month or next year and compare em since I'm almost complete with those 19-21 driver sets. Gets even more dynamic when you pair it to a warm source, even does imaging like crazy when you do. 

The problem about these drivers is the steel mesh, I broke a pair just lifting those drivers off to a normal MX500 faceplate lol, but hey, it's worth it. Cheap too


----------



## robar

captione said:


> I have one. Very easy to drive, the whole signature is lean and the bass is just right, sparkly sound signature. They might be the same with the red dot normal ones because it's basically the upgrade on those, gonna buy one this month or next year and compare em since I'm almost complete with those 19-21 driver sets. Gets even more dynamic when you pair it to a warm source, even does imaging like crazy when you do.
> 
> The problem about these drivers is the steel mesh, I broke a pair just lifting those drivers off to a normal MX500 faceplate lol, but hey, it's worth it. Cheap too


Thanks!  So I can safely buy them for mx500, dp100 etc shells, they stay on place without glue? I'd really want something like the red 19-21 just with a thinner cover like this steel mesh. I'd also like to build some presents and this violet seems like a pretty good deal to get some spare pairs for that


----------



## captione

robar said:


> Thanks!  So I can safely buy them for mx500, dp100 etc shells, they stay on place without glue? I'd really want something like the red 19-21 just with a thinner cover like this steel mesh. I'd also like to build some presents and this violet seems like a pretty good deal to get some spare pairs for that



Ironically enough, I was actually planning to put those drivers in a DP100 shell originally (with the faceplates intact and all) and they didn't fit, which lead me to remove the faceplate completely and use my spare MX500 shell and faceplate instead (which also lead to the unfortunate breaking of my first pair, kinda sucks). 

If you're gonna put em in a shell without breaking the faceplate, I think the wooden ones are the best candidate, but it takes more effort to tune em with those unfortunately.


----------



## robar (Dec 11, 2020)

captione said:


> Ironically enough, I was actually planning to put those drivers in a DP100 shell originally (with the faceplates intact and all) and they didn't fit, which lead me to remove the faceplate completely and use my spare MX500 shell and faceplate instead (which also lead to the unfortunate breaking of my first pair, kinda sucks).
> 
> If you're gonna put em in a shell without breaking the faceplate, I think the wooden ones are the best candidate, but it takes more effort to tune em with those unfortunately.


So it's tighter than usual? That's not a bad thing for me, actually it would be quite good news. I have some 15.4mm shells that need tighter covers, mx500 covers don't even stay in place, like wooden ones you said and some other plastic models as well.


----------



## captione

robar said:


> So it's tighter than usual? That's not a bad thing for me, actually it would be quite good news. I have some 15.4mm shells that need tighter covers, mx500 covers don't even stay in place, like wooden ones you said and some other plastic models as well.


Man, those out-of-spec sized shells might be a blessing in disguise for those faceplates 😅
The wooden ones definitely will fit fine as far as experience goes. I'm probably just lucky that what I bought was pretty fine QC wise (seen some oddball variation of the MX shell and faceplate that's at least 5% bigger, wouldn't call it a QC issue, just weird replicas)


----------



## 730user

Vido, for audiobook...


----------



## Themilkman46290

Has anyone tried playing with these

Been curious about these but wanted to know if anyone has tried using them


----------



## assassin10000

Themilkman46290 said:


> Has anyone tried playing with these
> 
> Been curious about these but wanted to know if anyone has tried using them



I talked to the seller about those previously, they aren't meant for the open design of earbuds. They were for closed design housings/IEMs iirc. 

They can probably be made to work but tuning may be difficult.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> I talked to the seller about those previously, they aren't meant for the open design of earbuds. They were for closed design housings/IEMs iirc.
> 
> They can probably be made to work but tuning may be difficult.


Also with shallow shells,  for example https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000884184983.html
I don't know about this, cavity size is too narrow https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001283457554.html
Another shallow shell "OURART" like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33058977792.html. 
With this shell, it is very complicated to place mmcx when the wires are soldered.
There are a lot of windings so the wire falls off every time it is twisted. I do not recommend this shell


----------



## Themilkman46290

assassin10000 said:


> I talked to the seller about those previously, they aren't meant for the open design of earbuds. They were for closed design housings/IEMs iirc.
> 
> They can probably be made to work but tuning may be difficult.


Well I guess I will give those a pass for now
Thanks


----------



## Themilkman46290

Couldn't wait much longer, I ordered the 68ohm graphene with metal mesh cover.... 

I have also finished tuning my 64ohm composite, 
It came out better then expected, very good micro details and sub bass is nice and rumbly

So I guess if I was rating them then 130ohm "8pack" and 400ohm graphene are tied for number one spot with the 64ohm composite is in second place, then the 500ohm and 600ohm 

Should have the 300ohm with the 9u diaphragm soon, I hope they are worth it


----------



## usergate

As far as I understand. For a 130 ohm Beryllium, the best sound would be in the MX500 cases that come in the package,




and not in the Smabat M2? 



Thank you.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 14, 2020)

usergate said:


> As far as I understand. For a 130 ohm Beryllium, the best sound would be in the MX500 cases that come in the package,
> 
> and not in the Smabat M2?
> 
> Thank you.


The answer to your question will be 100% subjective. MX500 shell, we know it uses cheap material but as far as the shape and design of "vents system",
it's considered one of the best solutions and it has been used for so many years.
What I noticed while testing these three cases is that this "8-pack" driver responds well to different case sizes.
I personally like the medium cavity size which would be roughly the size of the MX500 shell.


----------



## captione

usergate said:


> As far as I understand. For a 130 ohm Beryllium, the best sound would be in the MX500 cases that come in the package,
> 
> and not in the Smabat M2?
> 
> Thank you.


Any shells might sound good depending to how you tune honestly, you just gotta experiment. As dumb as it sounds, I put an obviously smaller sized 15mm driver (VE Monk Lite) into a 15.4mm MX500 faceplate, all for the sake of sound, and it paid off amazing results for me. 😆
There's alot of experiments, literature and various findings on tuning earbuds here on this thread so you might wanna backread, it's an amazing ride. 

Also, I don't know if you're planning to put those particular drivers in the Smabat M2 Pro shell but I'm pretty sure it has a different latching part than the usual MX500 suspects, so you might wanna consider that, cause it won't fit. (I wish Smabat just sold some sort of adapter for any custom 15.4mm "aftermarket" driver you buy because its literally just a piece of metal glued on a normal 15.4mm driver...)


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> (I wish Smabat just sold some sort of adapter for any custom 15.4mm "aftermarket" driver you buy because its literally just a piece of metal glued on a normal 15.4mm driver...)


Then probably no one would buy their drivers, they knew about it in advance


----------



## Themilkman46290

Anyone here ever tried or own the "deep audio" helix?
They are not cheap but custom work deserves its higher price


----------



## usergate (Dec 14, 2020)

captione said:


> Also, I don't know if you're planning to put those particular drivers in the Smabat M2 Pro shell but I'm pretty sure it has a different latching part than the usual MX500 suspects, so you might wanna consider that, cause it won't fit. (I wish Smabat just sold some sort of adapter for any custom 15.4mm "aftermarket" driver you buy because its literally just a piece of metal glued on a normal 15.4mm driver...)



I had such thoughts, now no ). 11.11 I wanted to buy Smabat 10s gold, but then I thought it was boring.  So I bought the Smabat 10s silver + Smabat M2 Pro + 2 pairs of "gold" drivers and RY4S mmcx plus for their cost. They now stand in these cases. I like the Smabat 10s silver (already gold) better. The Smabat M2 Pro is asking for a new pair. There is no certainty that the "Native" M2's at 32 ohms and the "Silver" ones at 40 ohms are good enough for these "irons".  Visual component:

Pardon my pseudo-English.


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Anyone here ever tried or own the "deep audio" helix?
> They are not cheap but custom work deserves its higher price


Nice find. They look shiny and super cool. 
I can't see, are they using helix tubes as ports (around the stem)?
This can be a better solution then Fiio EM5 "acoustic flute design"


----------



## furyossa

usergate said:


> I had such thoughts, now no ). 11.11 I wanted to buy Smabat 10s gold, but then I thought it was boring.  So I bought the Smabat 10s silver + Smabat M2 Pro + 2 pairs of "gold" drivers and RY4S mmcx plus for their cost. They now stand in these cases. I like the Smabat 10s silver (already gold) better. The Smabat M2 Pro is asking for a new pair. There is no certainty that the "Native" M2's at 32 ohms and the "Silver" ones at 40 ohms are good enough for these "irons".  Visual component:
> 
> Pardon my pseudo-English.


You made a great choice with that order. At least you'll be able to try out different drivers  Is that RY4S Plus or OG version?
They look ridiculous with such a messy MMCX connector installed, but the driver is good and worth every penny.
My English is even worse,  reminiscent of that MMCX connector


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Nice find. They look shiny and super cool.
> I can't see, are they using helix tubes as ports (around the stem)?
> This can be a better solution then Fiio EM5 "acoustic flute design"


Seems like they are using the tubes for bass, I decided to save up a bit and give them a try in the next month or 2, was thinking the same thing about the fiio too, seems interesting.
Deep audio is very friendly and happy to explain, look them up on Facebook


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Seems like they are using the tubes for bass, I decided to save up a bit and give them a try in the next month or 2, was thinking the same thing about the fiio too, seems interesting.
> Deep audio is very friendly and happy to explain, look them up on Facebook


I understand what they modeled. I think that Fiio decides to separate the tube from the shell because of resonance. They use plastic shells and maybe that is a better choice. DeepAudio use metal or painted plastic? Price?


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> I understand what they modeled. I think that Fiio decides to separate the tube from the shell because of resonance. They use plastic shells and maybe that is a better choice. DeepAudio use metal or painted plastic? Price?


They are custom made of silver plated brass, the price is not said but his other builds on Facebook are around $50-70, but I am sure you may ask


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> They are custom made of silver plated brass, the price is not said but his other builds on Facebook are around $50-70, but I am sure you may ask


Hmmm.. they are probably very heavy because of brass, for IEM's this is not so much a problem because the cables go over the ear, with earbuds is inconvenient and the cables themselves create an additional load. The price is fine, I think


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Dec 14, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Hmmm.. they are probably very heavy because of brass, for IEM's this is not so much a problem because the cables go over the ear, with earbuds is inconvenient and the cables themselves create an additional load. The price is fine, I think


Yeah, they are probably a bit heavy, but this doesn't bother me

I started using gator clips a while back, even the heaviest buds stay put with a good clip to fix to your collar


----------



## furyossa (Dec 14, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yeah, they are probably a bit heavy, but this doesn't bother me
> I started using gator clips a while back, even the heaviest buds stay put with a good clip to fix to your collar


Great idea. 
Take a look at new TECHNICS technology for the driver "air control chamber" which they use for this earbud and TWS.
This is very little space behind the driver, it's similar to headphones when comparing driver size and rear space.
Today we talk about the driver that you posted earlier (for IEM). Some small driver doesn't require big space behind the driver to have a spacious sound.
I'm not talking about standard 15.4mm like "8-pack". This driver sounds too intimate in small shells, like this one even if it has 3 back vents.
These days I was testing some old earbuds (half IEM and half buds) which have minimal cavity size, but the sound is incredibly open and the bass is delicious. I will post some info when I have free time.


----------



## usergate (Dec 15, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Is that RY4S Plus or OG version?


plus


furyossa said:


> They look ridiculous with such a messy MMCX connector installed


Haha, appearance is secondary to me. Look at my first diy:

These drivers. Less demanding on source power than gold smabats and less even sound, they are light. The bass is normal for earbuds, I'm sure you can work on it. But purity and air in sound ... These drivers also have the most powerful magnets (neodymium?), Rarely seen among earbuds, but my experience is rather modest.
This topic is extremely useful, your messages are especially appreciated.


----------



## Vannak

Themilkman46290 said:


> Couldn't wait much longer, I ordered the 68ohm graphene with metal mesh cover....
> 
> I have also finished tuning my 64ohm composite,
> It came out better then expected, very good micro details and sub bass is nice and rumbly
> ...


I just finished my 68 ohm graphene
Still with the stock tuning (I don't know how to modify tuning yet) 
The sound very crisp and clear and has big but not bloated bass
Just a first few songs


----------



## furyossa

usergate said:


> plus
> 
> Haha, appearance is secondary to me. Look at my first diy:
> 
> ...


I think that most DIY drivers use neodymium but different strength (N48, N50, N52, N55)
By looking at your mod, please tell me, are your MMCX sockets attached to the shell at all?


----------



## furyossa (Dec 15, 2020)

Vannak said:


> I just finished my 68 ohm graphene
> Still with the stock tuning (I don't know how to modify tuning yet)
> The sound very crisp and clear and has big but not bloated bass
> Just a first few songs


That's the sound of graphene 
Leave it for a while to "break-in" and then you can tune it if there is a need for it


----------



## Vannak

furyossa said:


> That's the sound of graphene
> Leave it for a while to "break-in" and then you can tune it if there is a need for it


Thanks!


----------



## SiggyFraud

Vannak said:


> I just finished my 68 ohm graphene
> Still with the stock tuning (I don't know how to modify tuning yet)
> The sound very crisp and clear and has big but not bloated bass
> Just a first few songs


Is this the driver you used?


----------



## usergate

furyossa said:


> By looking at your mod, please tell me, are your MMCX sockets attached to the shell at all?


This is a 2-pin. Heat shrinkage. Did temporarily, I will redo, someday ...  .


----------



## Vannak

SiggyFraud said:


> Is this the driver you used?


Yes!
From nsc audio store


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Dec 16, 2020)

What ever you guys do, don't by the plastic chrome shell, I had tried to use them on the 600ohm and the driver broke, later I tried them on the 500ohm and a driver broke, this was last spring and I had forgotten, today I noticed the shells and had wanted to try the 400ohm in them, then the driver broke...... I inspected further and noticed the lip on it is 16mm not 15.4mm, it also has a sharper edge that keeps clipping /snapping my voice coil leads..
Sucks..
These are the ones
The edge is also thicker then others. 
I loved me 400ohm drivers, I just wanted to try them in the mx500 shells since someone on here said they felt it the best option. 
Before the drivers broke I can say the wood shell sounded better but I wasn't finished tuning yet


----------



## furyossa (Dec 16, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> What ever you guys do, don't by the plastic chrome shell, I had tried to use them on the 600ohm and the driver broke, later I tried them on the 500ohm and a driver broke, this was last spring and I had forgotten, today I noticed the shells and had wanted to try the 400ohm in them, then the driver broke...... I inspected further and noticed the lip on it is 16mm not 15.4mm, it also has a sharper edge that keeps clipping /snapping my voice coil leads..
> Sucks..
> These are the ones
> The edge is also thicker then others.
> ...


I'm sorry to hear that. I know how much you loved those drivers.
I have a few "favorite" drivers that I also broke but I couldn't throw them away, I'm looking to find the right way to separate them from the cover but not to destroy the cover

It all started with the release of the Tingo model. An alloy of aluminum and plastic is used for the original shell, which increases the sound characteristics.
Then many manufacturers started copying these shells by producing some nonsensical MX500 (not work with 15.4mm) models with acrylic silver, gold paint. The paint peels off very easily. Model Tingo TC400 (gold and red metallic paint) not have any "lip", they glued the driver on the shell. TC400 uses one of those shells
that just looks like an MX500.
I understand when some custom metal shell does not have the right size for 14.8mm and 15.4mm drivers but it's a shame that someone produces plastic shells
that mimic the look of shells that we 100% know is compatible with PK and MX500 drivers.


----------



## Merlin-PT

Themilkman46290 said:


> What ever you guys do, don't by the plastic chrome shell, I had tried to use them on the 600ohm and the driver broke, later I tried them on the 500ohm and a driver broke, this was last spring and I had forgotten, today I noticed the shells and had wanted to try the 400ohm in them, then the driver broke...... I inspected further and noticed the lip on it is 16mm not 15.4mm, it also has a sharper edge that keeps clipping /snapping my voice coil leads..
> Sucks..
> These are the ones
> The edge is also thicker then others.
> ...



It happened to me with good generic mx500 shells.
Now I use a very small round metal file to make a small dip in the mx500 shell, so I don't break the wires of the drivers I like or that are more expensive. With the cheap ones I take the risk, but it never happened again. 

Here an (old) photo of the 130ohm membrane (from one driver with cut wires, I couldn't solder them back):


----------



## furyossa

Merlin-PT said:


> It happened to me with good generic mx500 shells.
> Now I use a very small round metal file to make a small dip in the mx500 shell, so I don't break the wires of the drivers I like or that are more expensive. With the cheap ones I take the risk, but it never happened again.
> 
> Here an (old) photo of the 130ohm membrane (from one driver with cut wires, I couldn't solder them back):


Most shells has that small dip and some not, but that's not the only problem here.
Some shells have lips on the side that widen the driver cover when trying to place it on the shell. Sometimes the cover cracks damage the driver


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Most shells has that small dip and some not, but that's not the only problem here.
> Some shells have lips on the side that widen the driver cover when trying to place it on the shell. Sometimes the cover cracks damage the driver


Yeah it's a shame really


----------



## Themilkman46290

Merlin-PT said:


> It happened to me with good generic mx500 shells.
> Now I use a very small round metal file to make a small dip in the mx500 shell, so I don't break the wires of the drivers I like or that are more expensive. With the cheap ones I take the risk, but it never happened again.
> 
> Here an (old) photo of the 130ohm membrane (from one driver with cut wires, I couldn't solder them back):


I think I will buy a file tomorrow


----------



## 730user (Dec 17, 2020)

I received 400 ohm graphene . These are high-level speakers. They sound less bright like 130 ohm berrylium . 
The metal mesh headphone cover snaps well, no glue. There was a plastic speaker cover in the order photo ... 
https://aliexpress.ru/item/40008743...004724389.1584423955&sku_id=10000010059964649
PS.  Guys! How do you damp the "19 - 20,000 Hz" speakers?


----------



## Themilkman46290

Last night, I ripped apart a pair of toneking to400 
And the drivers look exactly the same as other 400ohm diy graphene


Except for a darker shade of blue glue that holds the diaphragm to the cap

Also played with some 3mm od 2mm id acoustic tubing I got from sound link when I had made some b.a. Driver iems, using 32ohm titanium drivers
Y5 paper on the driver, 7-1mm full driver foam of shells, and 23mm of tubing with one end tapered to a 1mm opening


----------



## furyossa (Dec 17, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Last night, I ripped apart a pair of toneking to400
> And the drivers look exactly the same as other 400ohm diy graphene
> 
> 
> ...


*Look out Fiio. There is a new kid on the block.*

Congrats man! They look amazing.
How does the tube affect the sound itself?

I still can't find some close-up photos for the EM5.
I thought I saw them using some filter in the tube

Toneking  TO400 and TY Hi-Z HP 400 are only 400ohm models that I know.
I didn't expect the driver to be different, but I don't know if the specification says it's a graphene driver


----------



## Vannak

Themilkman46290 said:


> Last night, I ripped apart a pair of toneking to400
> And the drivers look exactly the same as other 400ohm diy graphene
> 
> 
> ...


How the sound stage? 
My 68 ohm graphene crush cymbals and hi hat sounds so deliciously wide
It so reminds me of my Koss ksc75


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> *Look out Fiio. There is a new kid on the block.*
> 
> Congrats man! They look amazing.
> How does the tube affect the sound itself?
> ...


Yes the toneking specify but ty uses different drivers from another company, and old driver from what I understood same company but different tuning as seaf and faeal I have a pair of seaf drivers but never could get a better tuning then the original tuning


----------



## Themilkman46290

Vannak said:


> How the sound stage?
> My 68 ohm graphene crush cymbals and hi hat sounds so deliciously wide
> It so reminds me of my Koss ksc75


Not as wide as my 64ohm composite titanium 
But I haven't spent a lot of time tuning, sub bass is there but a bit shy, mids are not too forwardbut there is a bit of a peak in the high mids/low treble that I am still trying to tune down. 
In general, pretty good sound


----------



## Vannak

Themilkman46290 said:


> Not as wide as my 64ohm composite titanium
> But I haven't spent a lot of time tuning, sub bass is there but a bit shy, mids are not too forwardbut there is a bit of a peak in the high mids/low treble that I am still trying to tune down.
> In general, pretty good sound


Yes! 
Please🙏
Keep us update with your tuning


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Dec 17, 2020)

Sure, biggest tips I can give is to purchase as many different tuning papers and foams, for the shell and the driver, also, micropore tapes from 3m, filter papers from different air filters (all kinds) different size drills, starting with 0.5mm to 3mm
And order a bunch of cheap mx500 shells
I would agree with the guys on here, seems the old mx500 is one of the best

My birthday is coming up so my gorgeous wife has lifted then ban......

I will probably order a couple metal shells from these very talented guys in the different diy groups from face book.


----------



## captione

usergate said:


> I had such thoughts, now no ). 11.11 I wanted to buy Smabat 10s gold, but then I thought it was boring.  So I bought the Smabat 10s silver + Smabat M2 Pro + 2 pairs of "gold" drivers and RY4S mmcx plus for their cost. They now stand in these cases. I like the Smabat 10s silver (already gold) better. The Smabat M2 Pro is asking for a new pair. There is no certainty that the "Native" M2's at 32 ohms and the "Silver" ones at 40 ohms are good enough for these "irons".  Visual component:
> 
> Pardon my pseudo-English.


Those are certainly good choices! Plus, the available drivers on the M2s are pretty good, and the system makes it a bit easier to swap things out without thinking much through. 

On a second note, I honestly wanna buy the "ST-10 150ohm drivers" and fit em on an MX500 shell, I saw someone removing the latch lip of those faceplates, so I think I could do it as well. It looks like an interesting variant of those N52 drivers that VE uses.


----------



## captione

Themilkman46290 said:


> Not as wide as my 64ohm composite titanium
> But I haven't spent a lot of time tuning, sub bass is there but a bit shy, mids are not too forwardbut there is a bit of a peak in the high mids/low treble that I am still trying to tune down.
> In general, pretty good sound



Is that the big solder ones?
If so, good to see someone liking those 64ohm drivers. I really love em too. Warm and dynamic, soundstage is pretty amazing. I heard they're the upgrade on the 32 ohm "green dot" 19-21 ones, I have one and the transients are just amazing compared to the normal version, definitely an upgrade.


----------



## robar

captione said:


> Is that the big solder ones?
> If so, good to see someone liking those 64ohm drivers. I really love em too. Warm and dynamic, soundstage is pretty amazing. I heard they're the upgrade on the 32 ohm "green dot" 19-21 ones, I have one and the transients are just amazing compared to the normal version, definitely an upgrade.


I think the one you talk about is the "chief" 64ohm full titanium.  I like it too
The composited ti is this model I think
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKvLFdL


----------



## captione

robar said:


> I think the one you talk about is the "chief" 64ohm full titanium.  I like it too
> The composited ti is this model I think
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKvLFdL


Oh! A composite Ti of the N52s, my bad 😅
They're interesting sets of drivers alright, I wanna complete my sets someday. Have only tried the normal N52s and the 32ohm red bassy ones...

Speaking of the 19-21s
After I buy the normal red dots, my collection will be complete (excluding the composite ti version of the red dot, they're accessible but i don't think it's a necessary buy because I have the full Ti coated ones in my collection now, maybe next time haha)
I'll be giving you guys a full comparison of those once I build em!


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> And order a bunch of cheap mx500 shells
> I would agree with the guys on here, seems the old mx500 is one of the best


You certainly won't go wrong with black one, I'm not sure about the others. 
Also, if you want colored shells, you can buy acrylic silver, gold, etc as spray in local art stores. If you want slightly better sound characteristics then consider UV resin on top


Themilkman46290 said:


> My birthday is coming up so my gorgeous wife has lifted then ban......
> I will probably order a couple metal shells from these very talented guys in the different diy groups from face book.


Here we go again 
I expected that your wife has already lifted the ban after the birthday gift which you did beautifully. What was the reaction?


----------



## usergate

My 8-pack  arrived. I didn't want to place them in 500MX. I decided to find them temporary housing in a shell from some old earbuds. 



They are not perfect, but these were the only ones in which I, without any problems, could place a 2-pin connector 

(they are not as rigid as mmcx when taking off and putting on and seem to be more durable).


May it be so. 2-pins are glued. Yes, I know the wires are longer than they could be.
The patient is on the operating table and ready.

Done.  All vital organs in place. 
 
It remains to play with the acoustic design inside.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 17, 2020)

usergate said:


> My 8-pack  arrived. I didn't want to place them in 500MX. I decided to find them temporary housing in a shell from some old earbuds.
> 
> 
> They are not perfect, but these were the only ones in which I, without any problems, could place a 2-pin connector
> ...


Nice job. 2-pins fit perfectly.  
The shell has a nice shape and design. It looks like your penguin avatar from behind 
One small suggestion. This plastic shell is prone to resonance, especially when "stronger" drivers are used but I don't mean strong abs but high impedance.
The two wires you use on the 2pin connector are too long and even if you twist them they will probably sooner or later touch the inside of the shell and you hear a crackle when you listen the music. Back sound waves will hit them also and by touching each other they will produce wieird ringing. The best option will be to use short wires. Also U
can use a shrinking tube, like insulation, or U can cover inner walls of the shell with foam or some soft material


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> You certainly won't go wrong with black one, I'm not sure about the others.
> Also, if you want colored shells, you can buy acrylic silver, gold, etc as spray in local art stores. If you want slightly better sound characteristics then consider UV resin on top
> 
> Here we go again
> I expected that your wife has already lifted the ban after the birthday gift which you did beautifully. What was the reaction?


She has been using them since, and I had given her the samsaras a week before, so she feels they have a larger Soundstage and micro details 
So I guess I am getting better at tuning 

And an update on the 32ohm sound tube buds, I cut a peice of the y5 horse shoe tuning cotton paper at the center (apexe of the horse shoes) and it seemed to tame the peak I was having and slightly boost the bass (still very balanced and slightly bright sound but bass has a better attack)


----------



## furyossa (Dec 17, 2020)

Themilkman46290 said:


> She has been using them since, and I had given her the samsaras a week before, so she feels they have a larger Soundstage and micro details
> So I guess I am getting better at tuning
> 
> And an update on the 32ohm sound tube buds, I cut a peice of the y5 horse shoe tuning cotton paper at the center (apexe of the horse shoes) and it seemed to tame the peak I was having and slightly boost the bass (still very balanced and slightly bright sound but bass has a better attack)


You probably saw inside the speaker transition line, they use wool and other high absorbent material on the side walls to reduce high frequencies. If you have a new clean mop you can try to put a small piece (thread) inside a tube (1/3 or half way). You will get a similar effect as if you extended the length of the tube.


----------



## Vannak

Hello
Help! 
What temperature do you guys set on the soldering iron 
I killed two drivers last night 😭


----------



## assassin10000

350-360°C

I place the wire over the driver connection point, then I touch the wire/driver just long enough to melt them together. Typically 1 second or so. Blow on driver to cool it, then repeat with the other side.

Tin the wire before hand (use flux). The drivers usually have solder on them, if not add solder to the connection point on the driver. Do this by putting a tiny bit of flux on the driver solder point, melt solder on the tip of the iron and then touch it to the driver just long enough for it to bond (again less than a second or two).


----------



## furyossa

Vannak said:


> Hello
> Help!
> What temperature do you guys set on the soldering iron
> I killed two drivers last night 😭


 wow man, take it easy
This post contains some useful info. Take a look last link


----------



## Vannak

Thanks guys!
You all are so helpful 🙏


----------



## 730user

The temperature of the soldering iron tip should depend on the type of solder used. I am using ПОС-60 with a flux inside. 0.8 mm. Sometimes I use an additional flux (not active!). The temperature of my soldering iron is 285-290. The tip of the soldering iron must be clean and tinned.

it is better to solder the cables so that they are directed towards the middle of the speaker.


----------



## usergate

furyossa said:


> Also U can use a shrinking tube, like insulation, or U can cover inner walls of the shell with foam or some soft material


Thank you. Experience with large headphones - foam suppresses high frequencies. Thin leatherette, smooth side out - enhances bass without dropping highs. Is it possible for the earbuds to coat the inside of the shell with soft bitumen, glue  or silicone?


----------



## furyossa

usergate said:


> Thank you. Experience with large headphones - foam suppresses high frequencies. Thin leatherette, smooth side out - enhances bass without dropping highs.


If you have some suggestions and info about headphones or even speakers tuning you can post it here. Some tricks can be applied to the earphones


usergate said:


> Is it possible for the earbuds to coat the inside of the shell with soft bitumen, glue  or silicone?


This can reduce resonance but it also reduces the already small cavity space. As you said," foam suppresses high frequencies ", so black "horseshoe" foam does the same.
In the case of headphones, the sound that bounces off the ear returns over and enters the cap, behind the driver
On the other hand, In the case of earbuds, the driver ie diaphragm is positioned (fills the entire cover space) to block the passage of reflected front sound waves.


----------



## furyossa

I'm always interested in topics about Mass Loading and Damping. 
This is small info from Reddit by *oratory1990* (acoustic engineer)
_How does it work, and what does it do? _
_Adding mass shifts the resonance frequency down and lowers acceleration above resonance frequency.
Damping affects the resonance frequency itself, it lowers the velocity and therefore lowers SPL at and around resonance frequency. 
Increasing the mass doesn't add bass, it only reduces SPL above the resonance frequency.
Whether or not it's "sloppy" depends on so many things - because "sloppy" isn't a technical term with a clear definition. It could be an excess of energy in the 200-600 Hz range (like many IEMs suffer from).
Or if you're talking about time-domain rather than frequency domain, it depends on the damping factor (load impedance divided by source impedance) - if it's too low there will be ringing effects (which some people like when they happen at low frequencies... "tube warmth" ring a bell?) 
Damping is a technical term that describes how much something resists velocity. It's the deciding factor in how much SPL is produced at resonance frequency ("how high is the resonance peak").
Doesn't mean that it only affects treble - add damping to the fundamental resonance of a dynamic headphone's transducer and you reduce energy in the ~100 Hz region, for example (as that's where the fundamental resonance of classical dynamic transducers for headphones lies)._
_Don't confuse the presence of sharp resonance peaks with treble detail. That's not what detail is._


----------



## Abu144Hz

Hey guys so i recabled my vidos, abd the left driver kinda sounds like its less powerful and less detailed. Can someone explain what's happening and how to fix it?


----------



## Themilkman46290

Abu144Hz said:


> Hey guys so i recabled my vidos, abd the left driver kinda sounds like its less powerful and less detailed. Can someone explain what's happening and how to fix it?


When did it start? You can try gently sucking/blowing the driver a bit, but it might be a burned voice coil or possibly a wire is touching the other contact

If you had trouble with soldering, that maybe is the problem, burn coil/coil lead


----------



## Vannak

Abu144Hz said:


> Hey guys so i recabled my vidos, abd the left driver kinda sounds like its less powerful and less detailed. Can someone explain what's happening and how to fix it?


Try different cable
If still the same you might damaged the drivers 😕


----------



## furyossa

Sometimes can be bad soldering on the driver or plug. Once I had a similar problem where one side was less audible than the other, I check everything, resolder couple of times and in the end, the new plug had a factory error.


----------



## 730user

Vido speakers are very easy to damage. they are the most capricious of those that I soldered.


----------



## robar

Sometimes it happens, a damage which doesn't kill the speaker entirely but ruins the sound quality…  the same problem can occur even with brand new diy speakers (probably  damaged in the shipping process or bad qc), I had quite a few pairs where one of the speakers had no bass or no treble, just weak muffled sound, with better stores like nsc I was able to get refund, but I lost money on other orders


----------



## 730user (Dec 20, 2020)

the membrane may be crumpled. you need to draw in and exhale air through your mouth through the headphone cover. repeatedly. it helps sometimes.


----------



## captione

Finally finished my DP100 build with a brand new 44ohm driver in it. 
Scratched the shell and faceplates because of tuning, but the results are worth it! Warm and sparkly!


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Finally finished my DP100 build with a brand new 44ohm driver in it.
> Scratched the shell and faceplates because of tuning, but the results are worth it! Warm and sparkly!


Is it the case with you that the mids are a bit in front? @robar and I have stated that it's because of the DP100 shell. We use two different drivers


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> Is it the case with you that the mids are a bit in front? @robar and I have stated that it's because of the DP100 shell. We use two different drivers


Yep, you're right, but I perceive more of the warmth than a bloat on its current tuning. 
When I tried full horseshoe foams (the ones that cover all holes), I didn't like the sound so I tried the normal horseshoe and left the two vents, I was pretty satisfied with the sound. I just don't like the mids veil it presents when vents are fully covered


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 22, 2020)

After a couple months some silicone tubing showed up for me to try on my coupler setup. Did some quick back to back tests vs my original latex tubing.

Approximate I.D. once in coupler.
1/4" I.D. Latex = 5.6-5.8mm
7x9mm Silicone = 6.7-6.9mm
7x10mm Silicone = 5.8-6.0mm




Also here is a 'zoomed' in view with a different scale (20db x 100hz-10khz)



Probably going to stick to the 7x9mm tubing for future measurements.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Just got here

The 300ohm "Green onions" 

Just warming up, but so far, not bad in original tuning


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Just got here
> 
> The 300ohm "Green onions"
> 
> Just warming up, but so far, not bad in original tuning


Is it because of green onions or what?


----------



## furyossa (Dec 24, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> After a couple months some silicone tubing showed up for me to try on my coupler setup. Did some quick back to back tests vs my original latex tubing.
> 
> Approximate I.D. once in coupler.
> 1/4" I.D. Latex = 5.6-5.8mm
> ...


Can you show your new invention I mean coupler?

I'm still dealing with my DIY Rig.
My final setup are iFi Zen DAC as sound card for earbuds output and for mic (iMM-6) I use iRigStream.



iFiZenDAC is really practical because it has "Power Match" option to boost gain (> 6dB) for high impedance buds without any distortion
This is calibration soundcard test



iRigStream audio interface has "loop back" switch which makes things a lot easier for testing
This is how iRigStream looks like when I try "Calibrate Soundcard"



That's why I don't use it as earbuds output. Maybe "loopback" option is not good.
I think that this not affect mic because I don't see because I don't see any irregularities on measurement curve

Yesterday I tested iMM6 mic with and without *cal* file.
There is the difference and probably that is why they don't suggest using cal for iMM-6.
For all 3 measurements, I use 1/48 smoothing. The *blue curve* is without cal file and as you can see it's a clean line.
When I check "Input devices is a C Weighted.." low-end and treble increases a few dB (*pink curve*).
Then I added the cal file and the curve start to show some weird distortion (*green curve*)


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Is it because of green onions or what?


Yep, here is the store pictures


----------



## Themilkman46290

Burning them in now, put them back in the white mx500 shell, sounds pretty good, I open the bass port in the neck and used a y3 paper with a regular foam horseshoe


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Burning them in now, put them back in the white mx500 shell, sounds pretty good, I open the bass port in the neck and used a y3 paper with a regular foam horseshoe


I also try that on white MX500, but I used instead white sponge. On black shell I switch placement of cable. I added a thin plastic tube to reduce vent hole


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 24, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Can you show your new invention I mean coupler?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sure, the only change is the center tube that attaches to my IMM-6.



Left to right: 1/4" latex, 7x10mm silicone & 7x9mm silicone tubing.




Who says not to use the cal file? IIRC REW says no cal file needed for USB DAC/AMP but the MIC itself still has a separate calibration from Dayton.

An FR graph isn't necessarily going to be smooth unless testing with specialty equipment that has a tuned output. I get a similar graph to your *green* line with the Dayton calibration file.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Sure, the only change is the center tube that attaches to my IMM-6.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Freq. curve with latex tube is really different from silicone. It's strange for such a small piece of tube. Is it because of material?
About cal file. Here this guy mentioned this:
_But hey, why did we ignore the mic/meter tab? After all, our Dayton mic comes with a calibration file…shouldn’ we input it there? _
_Well, no, apparently the measurement results are better without the calibration file._ 

Yesterday I saw this video by @jude. I will post some screenshots

This is old coupler













Obviously, these bends of ear canal  should also be taken into account, because additional pressure is created when the sound wave bounces off the walls of the canal
Have you ever considered deforming a tube that enters a mic similar to this ear canal?


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 24, 2020)

furyossa said:


> Freq. curve with latex tube is really different from silicone. It's strange for such a small piece of tube. Is it because of material?
> About cal file. Here this guy mentioned this:
> _But hey, why did we ignore the mic/meter tab? After all, our Dayton mic comes with a calibration file…shouldn’ we input it there? _
> _Well, no, apparently the measurement results are better without the calibration file._
> ...



The difference is mostly the diameter, with the change in diameter there is a change in resonance and how it reads above 3k. There is also some due to the stiffer silicone vs the softer latex, but not sure exactly how much of each.

The larger 7mm I.D. silicone reads closer to how it sounds IMO. That's why I'm going to stick with it for now.

It also means when comparing future measurements from me vs my old ones, you will need to take this into account. Unless I measure what I still have on hand... (again ).



Yep. My V1 coupler took into account my own ear anatomy lol. It was just harder to get consistent measurements vs the claw style.


----------



## assassin10000

Got another pair of X12 Ultra's in a couple weeks ago. Checked that they worked and immediately swapped a pair of of the 64Ω N55 drivers on.




EQ/tuning is still a WIP.


----------



## jeejack

I have to get an order with two drivers from NSC Audio Store. For starters I took 32 ohm N52 and 19-21 KHz. I will ask for your help in applying the tuning foam. Thanks!


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> I also try that on white MX500, but I used instead white sponge. On black shell I switch placement of cable. I added a thin plastic tube to reduce vent hole


I had completely blocked the wire holes using blue and red foams, then used a different density grey foam to tune the bass port


----------



## furyossa (Dec 25, 2020)

assassin10000 said:


> Got another pair of X12 Ultra's in a couple weeks ago. Checked that they worked and immediately swapped a pair of of the 64Ω N55 drivers on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is my version of N55 with JVC shells.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> This is my version of N55 with JVC shells.



Hmmm. How does it sound?

Going by the graph, I would find that super warm/bloated and female vocals sucked out.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Hmmm. How does it sound?
> Going by the graph, I would find that super warm/bloated and female vocals sucked out.


Nothing like that. That's the problem. I don't know what I'm doing wrong here.
Levels are ok. I posted earlier measurement for iFiZenDAC. Almost flat line between 20Hz-20kHz. 
Either the setup in REW is not correct, but I doubt it, or Mic and iRigStream audio interface.
We both have Pk1 "red film" 150ohm. I use Docomo shell and this is the measurement. 
Can you compare it to your model?


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 25, 2020)

Blue line is my current tuning.


How are you holding the bid to the mic/coupler? Perhaps you have too much of a seal like many of the manufacturer measurements I've seen?


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Blue line is my current tuning.
> 
> 
> How are you holding the bid to the mic/coupler? Perhaps you have too much of a seal like many of the manufacturer measurements I've seen?


Can I send you PM.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Can I send you PM.



Sure.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Any of you guys have tips for boosting the upper highs?


----------



## captione

Themilkman46290 said:


> Any of you guys have tips for boosting the upper highs?


Kramer mod perhaps?


----------



## assassin10000

Themilkman46290 said:


> Any of you guys have tips for boosting the upper highs?



Not really, treble extension and quantity/quality is mostly dependant on the driver itself and I don't know of any mods to raise it.


You could perhaps lower the mid-bass & mids/lower treble with tuning and just raise your volume a hair. This may or may not balance things out enough for the upper treble to be more present when listening.

Alternatively more power &/or EQ may be needed.


----------



## robar (Dec 26, 2020)

Upper highs mainly depend on shell, driver and dac in my experience, not sure how to target it by tuning. You could brighten up the sound by adding more foam or closing vents but it would affect the mids and bass very strongly.  Certain drivers has very dull upper highs, and many shells also soften the region compared to mx500 for example. Also if the source is not powerful enough a high imledance speaker can sound pretty dark.
For me, my sabre dac improves the treble of earbuds quite a bit. You can also try adding 2-3db eq over 10khz


----------



## rprodrigues (Dec 29, 2020)

After being positively surprised by some high impedance earbuds I received this month (TO400s, Nicehck k300, and even Rosemary), I decided to give the 500 Ohm or the 600 Ohm  DIY drivers a try.

Any of you guys could tell us if the DIY 600 Ohm drivers and the Toneking TO600 are too close? 

By the way, how one could compare the 300 and 600 Ohm DIY drives? Are the 600 Ohm bery too polite regarding treble extension?


----------



## furyossa

"Papa Bery" and TO600 are different driver. The First difference is sensitivity:100dB vs 105dB
According to PENON AUDIO Store TO600 uses some kind of composite diaphragm. This is the best offer on Ali for now.
Here’s why I wouldn’t consider buying a TO600. MMCX sockets are probably the main reason. 
This type of MMCX (with thin walls) are problematic. I have problem with my NiceHCK EBX which have the same sockets. One of connector interrupts the signal.  At the beginning, there were no problems, but over time, it is inevitable that it will happen .
First batch of ST-10 had the same problem with the connectors, so they changed the next batch.





This type of MMCX are one the best.  They have a thick "ring" that serves as reinforcement and are very durable


----------



## rprodrigues (Dec 30, 2020)

furyossa said:


> "Papa Bery" and TO600 are different driver. The First difference is sensitivity:100dB vs 105dB
> According to PENON AUDIO Store TO600 uses some kind of composite diaphragm. This is the best offer on Ali for now.
> Here’s why I wouldn’t consider buying a TO600. MMCX sockets are probably the main reason.
> This type of MMCX (with thin walls) are problematic. I have problem with my NiceHCK EBX which have the same sockets. One of connector interrupts the signal.  At the beginning, there were no problems, but over time, it is inevitable that it will happen .
> ...



I might have the same problem with my TO400s since it seems they share the shells with TO600... 

Where did you find the suggested metal shell? I've found them only as a DIY PT52 from Fengru (here).


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> I might have the same problem with my TO400s since it seems they share the shells with TO600...
> 
> Where did you find such a suggested metal shell? I've found them only as a DIY PT52 from Fengru (here).


Yup. That's the one. I don't like "convex arc" type of shells because of fit. I prefer "concave arc" especially for 15.4mm drivers


----------



## furyossa

A new dp100 buds by  Cat Ear Audio (Impedance: 32Ω ; Sensitivity: 110dB/mW ; Frequency range: 18Hz-20kHz )
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001902171423.html





And the "salvation" for stubborn MMCX connectors
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001793566564.html


----------



## Themilkman46290

Happy new years guys, here are my new years buds

It's the 68ohm, got it a couple days ago
Still burning in, so far, they seem like they have one of the best treble extensions, Soundstage is slightly larger then average but not as big as the 130ohm 6pack. separation, and clarity are one of the best, so I would put it on the 3rd place on my list, behind the 400ohm and 130ohm.

They are not bassy, the bass is quick, but behind the mids, and treble is dominant here, I am really enjoying this driver, has a cool realism to it, gets some extra details 
If it had the bass of the 400ohm or 130ohm I would give it first place


----------



## robar (Jan 1, 2021)

Happy new year to all! 

@furyossa Here's my first new arrival report this year 

Chitty store added two new very interesting 15.4mm drivers to the 19-21 lineup, hopefully these will appear in more affordable stores soon:
1. Nanofiber 32ohm
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001969778590.html
2. Beryllium composite
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001964973846.html

Nsc store started to sell the 15.4mm variant of what I call "meizu ep21 shell". These are simple very cheap shells from not very sturdy plastic but the comfort is good and sound is decent from my memories. (my salvaged shell has broken rim so I can't really attach speakers to it any more)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001958963301.html

CKLewis started to sell the drivers from their Fengru TC200 earbud in 5 pair sets for only 11usd
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001948973246.html
From my memories, Fengru tc200 sounded good, I wasn't fan of the tuning (too v-shaped in that metallic shell) but the speaker itself was decent, sq was competitive in the 10-15usd  budget earbud field. Smooth sound, not very deep bass, better timbre than emx500 speaker but less exciting. Of course there are much better drivers from 4usd like 19-21, but for 2.4usd per pair this model could be a nice base for building a bunch of presents if low-fatigue smooth sound is the goal.


----------



## 730user

I really liked the graphene 400 ohm. I think I need a player with a very good amplifier.


----------



## Vannak

Themilkman46290 said:


> Happy new years guys, here are my new years buds
> 
> It's the 68ohm, got it a couple days ago
> Still burning in, so far, they seem like they have one of the best treble extensions, Soundstage is slightly larger then average but not as big as the 130ohm 6pack. separation, and clarity are one of the best, so I would put it on the 3rd place on my list, behind the 400ohm and 130ohm.
> ...


Yeah 
I am using it too
Really love the wide stage


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Happy new years guys, here are my new years buds
> 
> It's the 68ohm, got it a couple days ago
> Still burning in, so far, they seem like they have one of the best treble extensions, Soundstage is slightly larger then average but not as big as the 130ohm 6pack. separation, and clarity are one of the best, so I would put it on the 3rd place on my list, behind the 400ohm and 130ohm.
> ...


You mean above average wide soundstage and not deep as 130ohm. I like when driver has the ability to produce fast bass but is very rare. These characteristics remind me a lot of ShoonTH ESEP-01BL driver which also has fast bass and wide soundstage.
I don't know but maybe because of this "ability" imaging is also very good


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

Happy New Year all! Figured I'd do some DIY today and change things up. I recently got the DIY M2 Pro kit with standard silver driver. I just was kinda underwhelmed by it compared to the M1Pro and original ST10. So I took a small flathead screw driver and popped off the proprietary driver screw/mount deal, very very easy to do. I popped in my 600ohm Beryllium drivers.... oh my. Yes these shells and 3d printed tuning plugs work... Bass is tight, deep, punchy, doesn't bleed and bloat like I was experiencing before in my other shells. I need to do my little measuring to see how different it is visually but to me this seems like it just made the bass come into perfect placement, cleaned up the upper mids and did little to nothing to the treble. These drivers are neutral with no exaggerated treble spikes to bring out some kind of "sparkle", ala ST-10(7/8khzish boost). So to me these sound more like a solid good set of non-hyped studio monitors now. 

The ONLY thing that I lost was things are a little more closed in, just like the ST10 and M1 Pro where you feel like you are kind of sitting in the sweat spot of a set of speakers. With my old shells it was just open in the back of the driver so it was more spatial and open in general. Sound is so good now the trade off is easy to forgive. 

Since the 600ohm do have a better stage and open sound I may try out my 400ohm Graphenes in these in a week or two. I have the Gold Smabat drivers in route currently to see how they compare. 

The little screw/mount just snaps the drivers on really well so no glue is needed.

Anyone else been experimenting with this DIY M2 Pro set? Need to get out the other tuning models and see how they do since they give a V type sound sig to the original drivers wonder how that will sound on these. Anyway have a great new start to the year everyone!


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Happy new year to all!
> 
> @furyossa Here's my first new arrival report this year
> 
> ...


Nanofiber  is probably another term for bio-cellulose. Bio-cellulose itself has good SQ characteristics, but the only drawback is that it decomposes on its own after a couple of years due to its organic nature.
For this driver is used as "coat" over the PU diaphragm and here decompose will not be the issue.

Beryllium composite, another "half-breed".  This can definitely improve the quality of the low frequencies, I don't know how all this affects the high frequencies. It would be bad if this driver has "L-shape" sound signature, but I doubt it. This driver has coated center dome with Beryllium,  which we also saw in the case of Titanium composite driver.
I wonder what would happen if the outer part of the diaphragm was covered, as in the case of Fiio FD5. Also "acoustic prism" is very interesting solution.
I tried to find anything about that but without lack. Only info about "acoustic prism" (video below) but this is something more advance and probably not the same thing


You mean this Meizu EP21. This is not buds for ordinary smartphones for sure. (128ohm / 99dB) for $12. Wow! How they sound?
BTW...NSC know how to tease me. Look at this 

Yup TC200 is better then EMX500. That's why I suggest TG-38s. This is the original TC200 driver. Glue is a bit different and less used





Ok "Sherlock Holmes" 🕵️‍♂️ can you find maybe this one, my favorite HE150 (zoom is amazing on my phone as you see)
Ignore this duct tape on the inside of the cover


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Happy New Year all! Figured I'd do some DIY today and change things up. I recently got the DIY M2 Pro kit with standard silver driver. I just was kinda underwhelmed by it compared to the M1Pro and original ST10. So I took a small flathead screw driver and popped off the proprietary driver screw/mount deal, very very easy to do. I popped in my 600ohm Beryllium drivers.... oh my. Yes these shells and 3d printed tuning plugs work... Bass is tight, deep, punchy, doesn't bleed and bloat like I was experiencing before in my other shells. I need to do my little measuring to see how different it is visually but to me this seems like it just made the bass come into perfect placement, cleaned up the upper mids and did little to nothing to the treble. These drivers are neutral with no exaggerated treble spikes to bring out some kind of "sparkle", ala ST-10(7/8khzish boost). So to me these sound more like a solid good set of non-hyped studio monitors now.
> 
> The ONLY thing that I lost was things are a little more closed in, just like the ST10 and M1 Pro where you feel like you are kind of sitting in the sweat spot of a set of speakers. With my old shells it was just open in the back of the driver so it was more spatial and open in general. Sound is so good now the trade off is easy to forgive.
> 
> ...


I use my 400 and 600oms with DIY metal shells and yes, the bass is more tight, deep, punchy but because shell has open back vent I can control whether they are more intimate or spacious. 
And of course the size of the cavity also has an effect here.


----------



## robar (Jan 2, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Nanofiber  is probably another term for bio-cellulose. Bio-cellulose itself has good SQ characteristics, but the only drawback is that it decomposes on its own after a couple of years due to its organic nature.
> For this driver is used as "coat" over the PU diaphragm and here decompose will not be the issue.
> 
> Beryllium composite, another "half-breed".  This can definitely improve the quality of the low frequencies, I don't know how all this affects the high frequencies. It would be bad if this driver has "L-shape" sound signature, but I doubt it. This driver has coated center dome with Beryllium,  which we also saw in the case of Titanium composite driver.
> ...




About the Nanofiber - and what do you think about the FreeEdge tech in this nanofiber driver? Like Denon D9200..

I only had a cheap 3usd clone of Meizu ep21hd, I don't know what the original is like, but shell I have is exactly the same as the NSC listing. It's a very simple shell, you can put standard horseshoe (not full, you have to cut roughly half circle). With thin covers like steel mesh, dp100/mx760 it's extremely comfortable to me. With mx500 cover it is similar to dp100 shell + mx500 cover, so it sits tightly in the ears but quite bulky. From SQ point of view it could be a nice competitor to the dp100 shell if I recall correctly, and I prefer the shape in terms of comfort. But plastic is not sturdy.

I have a Fengru TC200 speaker in one of my boxes, will check it out. Sadly the other half of the pair doesn't work any more. As far as I remember, the speaker lacked quite a bit of low bass and had some emphasis on mid highs, but overall good timbre and transparency for an ultra budget driver. I'd prefer the red rim N50 speaker for sure which has similar signature but better SQ, but it's almost 2x the price compared to the 5-pair set of tc200 which sells for 12usd. I'd really love a listing for the N50 red rim where they sell 5 pair for like 15 usd, it would be the ultimate gift listing for me 

Yes I've seen the diy bud with your dream shells and the 400ohm  To be honest, the finish doesn't look so good, the edges are quite rough on around the back vent for example. By the way, how do you tune a shell like that reliably? What sort of material do you put on the vent? I never had an open back shell before, so my main concern is how do you get reliable channel balance, how do you put something on those vents that covers the whole thing tightly and  wouldnt get loose after a few days or weeks.
(we're talking about this shell https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001773416768.html and this earbud https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001836926242.html )


----------



## furyossa (Jan 2, 2021)

robar said:


> About the Nanofiber - and what do you think about the FreeEdge tech in this nanofiber driver? Like Denon D9200..


This is maybe coincidence. Take a look this.





It's very similar to ShoonTH driver. On Penon Audio Store, they mentioned that ShoonTM used Japanese imported driver from Foster Electric Company.
Denon didn't mention company name but only that they use also Japanese imported driver.
Also look this catalog https://www.foster-electric.com/products/pdf/headphones.pdf
First buds are reminiscent of Pioneer SE-CL721. 3rd pair is exactly the same as  PIONEER  SE-CE11. Also, the last two headphones have very similar cans like Denon D9200.

This "free edge" technology is often used with speakers, where only the central part of the diaphragm is rigid (to reduce surface deformation) and the edge is elastic to make it easier for the driver to move back and forth.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Yes I've seen the diy bud with your dream shells and the 400ohm  To be honest, the finish doesn't look so good, the edges are quite rough on around the back vent for example. By the way, how do you tune a shell like that reliably? What sort of material do you put on the vent? I never had an open back shell before, so my main concern is how do you get reliable channel balance, how do you put something on those vents that covers the whole thing tightly and  wouldnt get loose after a few days or weeks.
> (we're talking about this shell https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001773416768.html and this earbud https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001836926242.html )


I have open back buds, but they not have such a big vent hole. In the case like this I will probably combine a couple of things
First I will add another "dust" steel mesh from inside to block air a bit more https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32800734441.html
Instead of steel mesh you can use small pieces from something like this (only hook) part without adhesive https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001052968496.html
Another layer will be cotton filter (round part) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2046606985.html , or this inner part https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000250823937.html
More of this but for headphones https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2035370421.html
At the end if this is not enough you can always stuff the cavity with some absorbent material (sponge, mop ...)


----------



## robar (Jan 2, 2021)

Thanks @furyossa very interesting 
One of my possible projects for this year is to mod and upgrade my old semi-open AKG K514 which uses 40mm drivers. I already changed the front filters and earpads and the sound improved a lot, it's actually enjoyable now  But I want to take it further, redo the tuning on the back vent (I guess same principles apply here as open back earbud), upgrade the cabling and even the drivers and headband. If you know some good quality 40mm drivers from aliexpress or good diy cables for one-sided headphone cabling (or maybe I convert it to Y cabling or just female connectors) I'd be happy to hear! We can continue via pm if other's don't wanna chime in, I guess this is getting pretty offtopic  I also have a vintage silver AKG K141 which also needs some tuning work inside, recabling and earpad mod etc
I just need to figure out how to measure headphone freq response with my field recorder  Maybe I'll make a little "flat bed" rig or just a wooden square with a hole inside


----------



## furyossa (Jan 2, 2021)

robar said:


> Thanks @furyossa very interesting
> One of my possible projects for this year is to mod and upgrade my old semi-open AKG K514 which uses 40mm drivers. I already changed the front filters and earpads and the sound improved a lot, it's actually enjoyable now  But I want to take it further, redo the tuning on the back vent (I guess same principles apply here as open back earbud), upgrade the cabling and even the drivers and headband. If you know some good quality 40mm drivers from aliexpress or good diy cables for one-sided headphone cabling (or maybe I convert it to Y cabling or just female connectors) I'd be happy to hear! We can continue via pm if other's don't wanna chime in, I guess this is getting pretty offtopic  I also have a vintage silver AKG K141 which also needs some tuning work inside, recabling and earpad mod etc
> I just need to figure out how to measure headphone freq response with my field recorder  Maybe I'll make a little "flat bed" rig or just a wooden square with a hole inside


I think that any mod related to dynamic drivers of any size would be a very interesting topic because many principles can be applied to earphones. When I mention "any size" I also mean also the loudspeakers. That area has so many innovative things about tuning and many things can be learned from there.
Also, most of us know each other well on this thread, so I don't believe anyone will mind, and to be honest many DIY threads are not as popular and "alive" as this one 
Classic earbuds in comparation with headphones and IEM are much easier and cheaper to do mod and tuning.
I’m still collecting ideas and tuning material for my Sony and Sennheiser headphones. The stock cable and pads are around 30euros each which is expensive. Both models have two-way cable, HD25 Light has 2Pin sockets, but I can't find in my country
only the connectors to make balanced braided cable. Sony MDR-570 LB use non-removable cable, maybe I'll put standard MMCX. I will replace this "weird" pads with classic one. It's interesting that this model use 30mm driver but plastic frame around driver measure 80mm diameter. I need pads that can wrap around 80mm. HD25 Light use 70mm pads.

There are a couple of threads, but they are not active for quite some time
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/just-listened-to-some-fostex-t50rps-today-wow.452404/
Mass Loading and Damping


Cable replacement


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

furyossa said:


> I use my 400 and 600oms with DIY metal shells and yes, the bass is more tight, deep, punchy but because shell has open back vent I can control whether they are more intimate or spacious.
> And of course the size of the cavity also has an effect here.



Yeah I pulled the drivers out of shells really similar to your DIY, think you stated your previous favorites. I found I couldn't really tune them to my liking in those but I also admittedly didn't try that hard. I wanted a change overall and am really pleased with them now. I put the 400ohms in some large metal open back shells and they sound really good but still the same issues I had in the other metal shells. I've got some felt that I lined my MSUR N650s with and going to experiment with that. Overall I really like the 600ohm in the M2 Pro shells with the stock tuning module. Got me thinking what an ST10s shell would sound like. I'll post some pics tomorrow to show what I am referring to.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> I just need to figure out how to measure headphone freq response with my field recorder  Maybe I'll make a little "flat bed" rig or just a wooden square with a hole inside


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32330952194.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001094165717.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1950602389.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1144636237.html
You're welcome


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Got me thinking what an ST10s shell would sound like


I hope better if you not have a problem with the fit issue. It's a bit larger shell? 
Probably because of the size you will have spacious sound and TL is longer which will affect low-end even more


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

furyossa said:


> I hope better if you not have a problem with the fit issue. It's a bit larger shell?
> Probably because of the size you will have spacious sound and TL is longer which will affect low-end even more


I’ll be experimenting with tuning and your post is excellent above to start on. I am use to tuning headphones but earbuds are on such a small scale comparatively it’s just not been something I’ve messed with extensively.

    I’ve got the original st10 and it is great. No fit issues. I wear them down instead of over ear(just swap left and right). But yeah that’s what I am thinking. A little more bass depth and larger stage. I don’t want to take apart that set as I really am happy with them. But I am sure with my heat gun and time I can get the st10s drivers off.

As far as measurement I just use this https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1117/imm-6-idevice-calibrated-measurement-microphone

I have measured out a tube to have a 1inch space between the earbud and mic. Works well for me except I can’t really do anything above 10khz reliably. It’s good for personal reference.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 2, 2021)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> I’ll be experimenting with tuning and your post is excellent above to start on. I am use to tuning headphones but earbuds are on such a small scale comparatively it’s just not been something I’ve messed with extensively.
> 
> I’ve got the original st10 and it is great. No fit issues. I wear them down instead of over ear(just swap left and right). But yeah that’s what I am thinking. A little more bass depth and larger stage. I don’t want to take apart that set as I really am happy with them. But I am sure with my heat gun and time I can get the st10s drivers off.
> 
> ...


For headphone measurement is logical that we need the silicon ear for DIY measurement rig. Ear shell in real life absorbs and reflects the sound.
iMM-6 will perfectly fit inside ear hole on the other side. I’ve been playing with coupler design for the last couple of weeks. At first I thought I had a problem with the DIY measurement rig but in the end with the expert advice of @assassin10000 I managed to find out that the problem was coupler size and shape. Also see the latest video from @jude about new measurement system.

You are the crazier than me  in a good way of course.
At least I disassemble a little more expensive earbuds that don't sound good, so I don't mind in the end if something bad happens. You're planning to break up a pair that's already works and sound well.  That's the charm of this hobby! I totally support you in that 
You can probably find on the internet that someone is selling a broken ST-10. Maybe that would be a smarter solution


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32330952194.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001094165717.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1950602389.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1144636237.html
> You're welcome


Thanks, but I don't plan to buy any ears soon  I only want to measure the relative difference between different mods to the same headphone. The purest signal I can get from it, the more reliable the measurement gets. The graphs won't be similar to a standard measurement with a dedicated head, but I don't need it. My goal is to check channel balance and see the effect of different filters/vents/drivers on the same set of headphones. Maybe compare headphones that are very similar in terms of earpad design. But I wouldn't compare lets say an on-ear vs circumaural. Anyways, even if I buy a hard plastic ear, that will be also very different from a real ear, it would just make a lot of random resonance in my opinion that would make my life harder. For my purpose, the simpler the better I think.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jan 3, 2021)

furyossa said:


> For headphone measurement is logical that we need the silicon ear for DIY measurement rig. Ear shell in real life absorbs and reflects the sound.
> iMM-6 will perfectly fit inside ear hole on the other side. I’ve been playing with coupler design for the last couple of weeks. At first I thought I had a problem with the DIY measurement rig but in the end with the expert advice of @assassin10000 I managed to find out that the problem was coupler size and shape. Also see the latest video from @jude about new measurement system.
> 
> You are the crazier than me  in a good way of course.
> ...



I actually got my st10 from assassin haha. It’s staying as is and yeah I am experimental when it gets right down to it. So this probably is the most pics I've posted on this site but here we go. An updated display of my DIY(excluding the stock silver M2Pro driver I stuck in a shell) AND my measuring rig with some samples.

From left to right we have 600 ohm, 400ohm, 64ohm Ti, and then I think it is a 32ohm N50 Red Film.






Then we have the inside of the M2 Pro shell with 600ohm Driver and stock tuning module




Now my measuring rig with some samples and using the ST10 as a baseline for general accuracy of my rig.











So you can see it has an opening that funnels to accommodate full coverage of driver, I always use donuts to get good seal and exposed driver head.

Here is the baseline, if I need to remove the pulled image from hiendportable.com let me know.



And this is my St10 measurement 



and now just to see what I have for the 600ohm



Would love to see the peak move from the 2.2khz to 2.8khz but believe this is just the nature of the driver itself and that kind of shift probably isn't possible. If you tuning gurus know how to get that shift please enlighten me! Either way this is probably my favorite set right now, need to live with it longer in this state but overall I am very pleased

EDIT: I knew I forgot something... here is the ST10 and M2 Pro. From the look of it the shell cavity is actually bigger on the M2 Pro with the TL being obviously bigger on ST10 so it stands to reason that bass would be the biggest difference here. Probably going to cool my jets and enjoy things as is for now.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 3, 2021)

These are my measurements for 600ohm Beryllium, 400ohm Graphene, 130ohm Beryllium and 64ohm Titanium
BTW... I use the same shell as yours for 64ohm Ti for my 130ohm and 64ohm models



Now you can see why 400ohm graphene has balanced sound signature


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jan 3, 2021)

furyossa said:


> These are my measurements for 600ohm Beryllium, 400ohm Graphene, 130ohm Beryllium and 64ohm Titanium
> BTW... I use the same shell as yours for 64ohm Ti for my 160ohm and 64ohm models



That's pretty much what my readings show as well when I lightly break the seal by moving the earbud at a small angle or just balance it freestanding on top of the opening. Except I don't have the 130ohm.I tend not to do it as it is easier for me to read the fully pressed readings anymore. All it takes is to just ever so lightly shift pressure so  the seal on one side is eased up. In essence it is more likely the bud sits flush and firmly in the bottom of our ear and lightly lifts away at the top of the ear. Giving the more traditional readings like you have above. I wish I liked my driver 400ohm more but it's just something about the texture I don't enjoy as much as the 600ohm. It has the proper 3khz peak but more bloated bass. I definitely feel the lower mids are much better with the new shells on the 600ohm now as apposed to the previous, which it was in the same type as my 64ohm Ti.

I was just looking at the 130ohm driver yesterday but they are $33 right now which is the same as the 600ohm... You know a better place to get that driver for the old cheaper price?


----------



## furyossa (Jan 3, 2021)

Wow, they double the price on 130ohm Bery. This is not good, and it seems a little rude to me, but I will not interfere in their politics.
That's why I bought 3 pairs, and I was supposed to do the same for 150ohm red film, 400 and 600ohm but now is too late.
This is how the current situation looks like when you want to order from my country. They're killing me with this abnormal shipping and this has been going on for almost a year now.


I use EVA foam for my coupler to reduce resonance from a plastic tube. EVA foam is like human skin, it's soft and act like absorber.
I noticed that by reducing the internal volume, it has a lot of effect on the final measurement. Also, we need to use  "lightly" seal, as close as possible to the natural way of wearing earbuds.
The average length of the ear canal is around 25mm and the diameter is around 7mm. Now what is also important?
The section of the ear canal has an elliptical shape and not circular like an ordinary tube. The second and perhaps most important thing is that the ear canal is curved in length and changes its diameter.
This is my analysis and re-design tor iMM6 DIY coupler



This is the current version #3.
#4 will be curved model


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

Yikes those ship prices are insane. They are just saying don’t buy it basically... that’s got to be frustrating. I did do some fancy curved tube design with a bike handle grip but just didn’t work out as well as I had hoped. Honestly I am more than happy with my little rig as is. It’s made from a kids medicine syringe tube. For me it gives me good idea for what my drivers are doing but again why I don’t post them publicly, just personal reference. If I was going to go all out I would get the standardized coupler and ear simulation. Like this
US $55.20  8％ Off | Headphone Curve Tester Artificial Ear Artificial Ear IEC711 Frequency Response Curve Waterfall Chart Base Version
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m01uPTf

but at like $250 all in I am good. Even $40 I’d rather get another M2 Pro and just live with My little $15 measuring rig.

I am very use to 2.1 studio monitors and as such I think the M2 Pro shells are a good fit. I asked Smabat if they were going to offer just the shells again but not heard anything yet. The M2 Pro is $45 right now and seems like a good bet to go ahead and get another set so I can experiment some more. They are just so comfy. M1 Pro sounds great but due to it being a smaller driver just doesn’t have the same impact and spatial sensations as a larger driver.

I know one of my 400ohm drivers has a nasty notched dip around 1khz. It’s just one of them.  So maybe I should just buy another set and see if it’s just my drivers I don’t like.


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Yikes those ship prices are insane. They are just saying don’t buy it basically... that’s got to be frustrating. I did do some fancy curved tube design with a bike handle grip but just didn’t work out as well as I had hoped. Honestly I am more than happy with my little rig as is. It’s made from a kids medicine syringe tube. For me it gives me good idea for what my drivers are doing but again why I don’t post them publicly, just personal reference. If I was going to go all out I would get the standardized coupler and ear simulation. Like this
> US $55.20  8％ Off | Headphone Curve Tester Artificial Ear Artificial Ear IEC711 Frequency Response Curve Waterfall Chart Base Version
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_m01uPTf
> 
> ...



Ok so I noticed there isn’t any info on the 500ohm beryllium so I bit the bullet and got it. Am going to just hope Smabat starts selling the M2 shells again at some point. 

US $29.64  20％ Off | GHXAMP MX500-S500 Earphone Speaker Unit 500 Ohm Beryllium Membrane Full Range Earpiece Driver 102.33dB Repair Earphone Parts 2pc
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMig8Yd


----------



## furyossa (Jan 3, 2021)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Yikes those ship prices are insane. They are just saying don’t buy it basically... that’s got to be frustrating. I did do some fancy curved tube design with a bike handle grip but just didn’t work out as well as I had hoped. Honestly I am more than happy with my little rig as is. It’s made from a kids medicine syringe tube. For me it gives me good idea for what my drivers are doing but again why I don’t post them publicly, just personal reference. If I was going to go all out I would get the standardized coupler and ear simulation. Like this
> US $55.20  8％ Off | Headphone Curve Tester Artificial Ear Artificial Ear IEC711 Frequency Response Curve Waterfall Chart Base Version
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_m01uPTf
> 
> ...


Yup I know about that coupler on Ali, I've been watching it for a long time  It has always cost around 100 and now is +$113 for shipping. 
Joke aside, it's expensive, and I agree that something else can be bought for that money.
The setup that I have is good for measuring changes in frequency responses when you test driver in different shells or when you try to play with tuning.

What is interesting about making this DIY coupler is that you can also test certain materials and see how they affect frequency response.
For example, I replaced the inner EVA foam tube with this different type of EVA foam which have a layer on one side similar to peach peel with fine hairs. 
This type of surface can smooth a bit of treble peaks after 8K




I think that similar material is used as "wallpaper" for inner walls of Moondrop Chaconne shell.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 3, 2021)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Ok so I noticed there isn’t any info on the 500ohm beryllium so I bit the bullet and got it. Am going to just hope Smabat starts selling the M2 shells again at some point.
> 
> US $29.64  20％ Off | GHXAMP MX500-S500 Earphone Speaker Unit 500 Ohm Beryllium Membrane Full Range Earpiece Driver 102.33dB Repair Earphone Parts 2pc
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMig8Yd


They make mistake. That's graphene 500ohm driver
https://www.aliexpress.com/af/500ohm-graphene.html


----------



## headenvelopedinsound (Jan 3, 2021)

furyossa said:


> They make mistake. That's graphene 500ohm driver
> https://www.aliexpress.com/af/500ohm-graphene.html


I will look into that driver then. I canceled the order.

I have a bunch of that felt type stuff. I used it on my N650 and M10160 during various states of modding. Was thinking of putting it on the inside of the big gold set of “bells” I have. They are huge.


----------



## furyossa

headenvelopedinsound said:


> I will look into that driver then. I canceled the order.


I think that @Themilkman46290 has 500ohm driver.


----------



## Themilkman46290

headenvelopedinsound said:


> Ok so I noticed there isn’t any info on the 500ohm beryllium so I bit the bullet and got it. Am going to just hope Smabat starts selling the M2 shells again at some point.
> 
> US $29.64  20％ Off | GHXAMP MX500-S500 Earphone Speaker Unit 500 Ohm Beryllium Membrane Full Range Earpiece Driver 102.33dB Repair Earphone Parts 2pc
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMig8Yd


Great driver, bit more sub bass and better highs then the 600ohm, all in all better


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Great driver, bit more sub bass and better highs then the 600ohm, all in all better


That's exactly how it sound 10mm graphene. To me the big surprise are the really cheap models of QKZ VK4 and AK1. Great move by QKZ, the little graphene driver they used for these models is not bad at all.


----------



## Themilkman46290

I was wanting to try the 19-21, I am looking at 2 versions with big solder points, one has black glue and cost a little more, the other has white glue and is a wee bit cheaper, which ones do you guys recommend? They both say 98.5db


----------



## furyossa (Jan 4, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> I was wanting to try the 19-21, I am looking at 2 versions with big solder points, one has black glue and cost a little more, the other has white glue and is a wee bit cheaper, which ones do you guys recommend? They both say 98.5db


For me one of the most important parameters is sensitivity of the driver and impedance. In this case F.R.:19-21kHz does not play a big role.
It would be nice if some parameters were standardized, especially if used with DAC/Amp,  say for
- 16-32ohm (I will also add 64ohm)  sensitivity: < 100dB (96dB-98dB)
- 150-300ohm  sensitivity:  (100dB-105dB)
- 400ohm sensitivity:  (105dB-110dB)
- 500-600ohm sensitivity:  (110dB-120dB)


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> For me one of the most important parameters is sensitivity of the driver and impedance. In this case F.R.:19-21kHz does not play a big role.
> It would be nice if some parameters were standardized, especially if used with DAC/Amp,  say for
> - 16-32ohm (I will also add 64ohm)  sensitivity: < 100dB (96dB-98dB)
> - 150-300ohm  sensitivity:  (100dB-105dB)
> ...


I am just curious what the difference is, they are the big solder points, 19-21 drivers, but they are about 3 dollars difference for the 10 pack, the one for 21 dollars has black glue, and the one for 18 dollars has white glue
Wondering what the sonic difference is...


----------



## robar

Themilkman46290 said:


> I am just curious what the difference is, they are the big solder points, 19-21 drivers, but they are about 3 dollars difference for the 10 pack, the one for 21 dollars has black glue, and the one for 18 dollars has white glue
> Wondering what the sonic difference is...


Can you send link to what two version are you thinking about?
I only tried this variant so I can only recommend this from experience:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html
there is a 5-pack at NSC for less than 15usd, but I think you have to ask them if this is the same as above
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001133273395.html


----------



## Themilkman46290

robar said:


> Can you send link to what two version are you thinking about?
> I only tried this variant so I can only recommend this from experience:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html
> there is a 5-pack at NSC for less than 15usd, but I think you have to ask them if this is the same as above
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001133273395.html


You pretty much answered my question
These are the drivers, in the yuming store


----------



## furyossa (Jan 4, 2021)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> I was just looking at the 130ohm driver yesterday but they are $33 right now which is the same as the 600ohm... You know a better place to get that driver for the old cheaper price?


I don't know but "search" on Ali probably miss NSC store. Here is the price as before $16 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047315914.html
JieTu store sale it for $15.6 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000051991677.html


----------



## furyossa (Jan 5, 2021)

furyossa said:


> A multi-winding voice coil is usually used in the case of a higher impedance, but here it is achieved by using a resistor
> This is funny. Take a look first driver on this video
> 
> And the mystery has been revealed



I guess similar resistors were used for this mod
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32636020144.html
It can be found in local electronics store
This one offers a large selection of different impedance https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33046380980.html
Do we need to look at any other specific parameter that is important when we chose these resistors for earbuds mod?


----------



## headenvelopedinsound

Themilkman46290 said:


> Great driver, bit more sub bass and better highs then the 600ohm, all in all better


You had me at great driver... lol. I’ll give it a go. Ordered another M2 Pro... 

My wife came in today and said “every time I come in here you have another one of these little speaker parts on your desk and a soldering iron out. What in the world could you possibly do to them you haven’t already!?”

of course she is smiling as she says it and I just was like “well yeah I have plans, lots of plans, and there are plenty of things to still discover” She is good to me. If it’s not earbuds it’s putting new pickups in my guitars or parts in a computer.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 5, 2021)

headenvelopedinsound said:


> You had me at great driver... lol. I’ll give it a go. Ordered another M2 Pro...
> 
> My wife came in today and said “every time I come in here you have another one of these little speaker parts on your desk and a soldering iron out. What in the world could you possibly do to them you haven’t already!?”
> 
> of course she is smiling as she says it and I just was like “well yeah I have plans, lots of plans, and there are plenty of things to still discover” She is good to me. If it’s not earbuds it’s putting new pickups in my guitars or parts in a computer.


She's probably expecting you to build one pair for her. Ask for advice @Themilkman46290. He is the master for "the gift" builds. This is one of the beautiful pair that I saw.
Also be careful when you pick color for the cable, it should definitely be her favorite color. 
Last year I build "Snow Flake" model as NY gift, from white K's 300ohm shells, white braided cables, white driver covers and white foams. I had to wash my hands every time before I take them   I forgot to take pictures of them, I was in a bit of a hurry to finish the gift on time


----------



## 730user (Jan 5, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Great driver, bit more sub bass and better highs then the 600ohm, all in all better


how does it (500 ohm berillium) compare to a 400 ohm graphene speaker?


----------



## Themilkman46290

730user said:


> how does it (500 ohm berillium) compare to a 400 ohm graphene speaker?


If you don't plan to spend slot of time tuning, I would recommend it very much over the 400ohm but if you are willing to tinker with it for a while, and plan on tuning it and modifying the shells then I would recommend the 400ohm. 

I got a very satisfactory tuning with mx500 shells and the 500ohm, playing with paper/foam combination, adding a small 0.5mm whole in the back and a good copper cable from cema store, present sub bass, good bass not boomy, clean mids fairly good treble extension overall balanced sound, good soundstage. 

The 400ohm took a lot more playing around, dampening the wood shells, adding a small metal pipe screen over the holes, very carefully removing a 2mm strip of glue from a 10:1mm full foam and carefully placing it over the bass/voice coil lead hole then leaving 2 tuning holes open and closing it with the exposed holes opposite the shell holes

I would advise caution with plugging the bass / voice coil lead hole because the leads on high impedance drivers are incredibly fragile, it's a warm w type sound, dark but not too warm the sub bass is really rumbly but notboomy and don't leak into the mids, the mids are forward and a bit emotional, the upper treble is rolled off but still there with a small peak in the lower treble giving a fair amount of detail, its very fun, engaging sound, similar to my he4xx with gentle treble roll off


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jan 5, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I guess similar resistors were used for this mod
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32636020144.html
> It can be found in local electronics store
> This one offers a large selection of different impedance https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33046380980.html
> Do we need to look at any other specific parameter that is important when we chose these resistors for earbuds mod?



I never tried that, because I don't have LG quad dac.

There are several types of resistors, with different materials, precision and size.

Those resistors will lower the sound volume, just like those earbud cables with volume control (like the original mx500).
You'll want high precision and/or to match the resistors in a pair to have the same resistance in both drivers (use a multimetter), so you won't have different L/R channel volume.

Maybe the different materials make changes in sound, to me different materials can sound different, to some others they sound the same, so it's up to you to decide.

Regarding size/legs, there are the conventional axial ones and SMD.

I can't recommend what's best (because I don't know), but you should take a look at these:
- carbon resistor (low precision)
- carbon film
- metal film (look for "vishay dale" and others)
- MELF (I want to try these, but are more expensive)

There are more types, but the last 3 are the ones I remember/consider using.

Random googled links:
https://www.electrical4u.com/types-of-resistor
https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/electronic_components/resistors/resistor-types.php


----------



## Themilkman46290

So after a bit of thinking, decided to take apart the to200 I had bought along with the to400s, the inside of both shells basically were filled halfway up with glue, so I grinded out the glue and removed the mmcx connectors on both pairs of shells, here is a picture of the to200 shells



The drivers actually have a lot of potential, the 400ohm seem to be the same as we have been buying from nsc, the 200ohm is a bit more interesting, so far I haven't gotten it tuned yet but it has some upper highs and sub bass that if tamed maybe could be wonderful.....
I have put the 300ohm "Green onions" in the to400 shell, after emptying the rear cavity, and these drivers seem to do much better with bigger shells


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> So after a bit of thinking, decided to take apart the to200 I had bought along with the to400s, the inside of both shells basically were filled halfway up with glue, so I grinded out the glue and removed the mmcx connectors on both pairs of shells, here is a picture of the to200 shells
> 
> 
> The drivers actually have a lot of potential, the 400ohm seem to be the same as we have been buying from nsc, the 200ohm is a bit more interesting, so far I haven't gotten it tuned yet but it has some upper highs and sub bass that if tamed maybe could be wonderful.....
> I have put the 300ohm "Green onions" in the to400 shell, after emptying the rear cavity, and these drivers seem to do much better with bigger shells


Hmmm.. probably they used glue to hold mmcx, 
I don't see other reason. Anyway now looks even better with whire covers. You are not using mmcx here? Do you have some jack tails (rubber neck) ? I like to use them for metal shells like in this example.


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Hmmm.. probably they used glue to hold mmcx,
> I don't see other reason. Anyway now looks even better with whire covers. You are not using mmcx here? Do you have some jack tails (rubber neck) ? I like to use them for metal shells like in this example.


Normally I get creative with some shrink tube and glue, but only after tuning, for now I used a bit of shrink tubing to hold it tight, later I I will fix it in place.

Decided to hold of on the 10 pack of drivers, realized there are still many I haven't tried, decided to buy a variety. 

Getting itchy on the 120ohm 14.8mm...


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Jan 6, 2021)

Couldn't resist the 10 pack of 19-21 red dot, grabbed the titanium 19-21 also, and the 120ohm 14.8mm

The wait begins........ 
Had a question for the guys on here who have bought the 120ohm 14.8mm, what is this? 
It looks to be a second tuning filter, but I can not tell, have any of you guys played with it?
From past memories playing with full size headphones, the yolk holes are for the highs, mids and bass, the center is mainly for the bass, so you would use 2 tuning papers, a large horse shoe and a much smaller coin size paper

So a thick horse shoe should bring the highs up and dry up the bass, and a medium thickness to thin paper dot will bring some of the bass back... 
Only speculation, hoping it is what I think it is


----------



## DBaldock9

Themilkman46290 said:


> Couldn't resist the 10 pack of 19-21 red dot, grabbed the titanium 19-21 also, and the 120ohm 14.8mm
> 
> The wait begins........
> Had a question for the guys on here who have bought the 120ohm 14.8mm, what is this?
> ...



In the world of regular loudspeaker drivers, a vented pole piece is to relieve pressure behind the dustcap, and provide some additional cooling for higher powered drivers.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jan 6, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Couldn't resist the 10 pack of 19-21 red dot, grabbed the titanium 19-21 also, and the 120ohm 14.8mm
> 
> The wait begins........
> Had a question for the guys on here who have bought the 120ohm 14.8mm, what is this?
> ...



I don't have those but I suspect that the center part of the driver membrane (the center dome above the coil) and that hole to the other side will work as bass port, were you can regulate the bass, all open means more bass, closing with different filters adjust amount of bass. Didn't tried it, it's what I suppose it does and could be wrong.


----------



## Themilkman46290

DBaldock9 said:


> In the world of regular loudspeaker drivers, a vented pole piece is to relieve pressure behind the dustcap, and provide some additional cooling for higher powered drivers.


Yeah, for full size loud speakers you are completely right, but for full size headphone drivers, that center hole gives a lot of bass when opened completely, like the drivers in v moda headphones (I accidentally did I'd to a pair, about 5 years ago)


----------



## assassin10000

Themilkman46290 said:


> Couldn't resist the 10 pack of 19-21 red dot, grabbed the titanium 19-21 also, and the 120ohm 14.8mm
> 
> The wait begins........
> Had a question for the guys on here who have bought the 120ohm 14.8mm, what is this?
> ...



It is a vent.


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yeah, for full size loud speakers you are completely right, but for full size headphone drivers, that center hole gives a lot of bass when opened completely, like the drivers in v moda headphones (I accidentally did I'd to a pair, about 5 years ago)


This type of vent paced at the center of the driver It can often be seen with 13.5mm drivers and smaller and as @DBaldock9 said it's here to relieve pressure behind the draver. 



It is very important in cases where the shell is very shallow so the side bass vent is not very useful. One example is the Superlux HD381 model for which I recently did a description. If a standard driver with radially placed side openings were used for this HD381 "like" shell model, the sound would be very closed and congested.
Center vent is already covered with thin membrane (filter) which controls pressure distribution, so if the bass is good don't touch this filter


----------



## assassin10000 (Jan 6, 2021)

furyossa said:


> This type of vent paced at the center of the driver It can often be seen with 13.5mm drivers and smaller and as @DBaldock9 said it's here to relieve pressure behind the draver.
> 
> It is very important in cases where the shell is very shallow so the side bass vent is not very useful. One example is the Superlux HD381 model for which I recently did a description. If a standard driver with radially placed side openings were used for this HD381 "like" shell model, the sound would be very closed and congested.
> Center vent is already covered with thin membrane (filter) which controls pressure distribution, so if the bass is good don't touch this filter



Those aren't really vents (lower 2 drivers), though they work as one. They are cutouts for routing the voice coil wires so they don't get pinched or damaged when assembling the drivers & covers.

They are also mostly blocked by the shell edge when installed.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Those aren't really vents, though they work as one. They are cutouts for routing the voice coil wires so they don't get pinched or damaged when assembling the drivers & covers.


They work as vents especially when you use full horseshoe foam. Smaller drivers sometime not have radially placed side openings and this center vent helps allot. This type 
of diver is a good option for multi-driver setup where it's primarily used as a woofer to produce low frequency sounds.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> They work as vents especially when you use full horseshoe foam. Smaller drivers sometime not have radially placed side openings and this center vent helps allot. This type
> of diver is a good option for multi-driver setup where it's primarily used as a woofer to produce low frequency sounds.



Sorry, meant only the lower 2 drivers in your pic. 

Edited my post for clarity.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Finally got a reply from nsc, they said it uses a 4mm filter over the vent for tuning, pretty cool, going to need to find 4mm screens/filters


----------



## captione

I got a 15.4mm 130ohm Be incoming. Can't wait!!! 
I'm gonna ask, did anyone of you who owned the drivers put some thick horseshoe foam or is it fine with the cotton ones that it has already? I'm very curious.


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Finally got a reply from nsc, they said it uses a 4mm filter over the vent for tuning, pretty cool, going to need to find 4mm screens/filters


Yup. It's very dense filter and on the other side there is a sticky part around the edge. So far I have not seen that it can be bought anywhere


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> I got a 15.4mm 130ohm Be incoming. Can't wait!!!
> I'm gonna ask, did anyone of you who owned the drivers put some thick horseshoe foam or is it fine with the cotton ones that it has already? I'm very curious.


For all my 3 builds I use stock filter. If you plan to use an mx500 shell then you can combine a black filter only on the shell side vents and on the driver maybe u can punch a couple of holes in the stock filter. I can't remeber if this filter is used as stock or a bit thicker one


----------



## Themilkman46290

captione said:


> I got a 15.4mm 130ohm Be incoming. Can't wait!!!
> I'm gonna ask, did anyone of you who owned the drivers put some thick horseshoe foam or is it fine with the cotton ones that it has already? I'm very curious.


Yeah, I tried it with the full size horse shoe, it wasn't bad but seemed a bit too dark, I like it better with a y5 paper on the yolk and the short foam on the shell. Chitty has a foam donut for 15.4mm drivers, covers even the bass port, if it was not so expensive, I would try it, covering the bass port (or muffling it can recall improve response)

But sound is subjective so, it might sound good to you, if you've got the foam, give it a try


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jan 7, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Finally got a reply from nsc, they said it uses a 4mm filter over the vent for tuning, pretty cool, going to need to find 4mm screens/filters


I saw some round filters for other purposes, then I thought if it was possible to make an hole adapter, inside or outside the earbud hole, using some kind of silicon or rubber hose/tube, cut  ~2mm lenght and glue it to the earbud hole and make a interface to use IEM filters, I think they are around 2 or 2.5mm (depends on the brand), then just change filters. I don't know if it's doable or even usefull.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32990477665.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32801730134.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2035370421.html


----------



## Themilkman46290

Merlin-PT said:


> I saw some round filters for other purposes, then I thought if it was possible to make an hole adapter, inside or outside the earbud hole, using some kind of silicon or rubber hose/tube, cut  ~2mm lenght and glue it to the earbud hole and make a interface to use IEM filters, I think they are around 2 or 2.5mm (depends on the brand), then just change filters. I don't know if it's doable or even usefull.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32990477665.html
> 
> ...


That is f*#king brilliant, great idea, and you could play with tube length, shape and try copper capillary, acoustic iem tubing. I can't wait for mine to get here


----------



## assassin10000

Knowles acoustic damper approx.
2.10mm o.d.

Use 2.0mm i.d. tubing


----------



## captione

I'll try with and without the horseshoe. Too afraid to remove the cotton since this is my first time handling such drivers.



Merlin-PT said:


> I saw some round filters for other purposes, then I thought if it was possible to make an hole adapter, inside or outside the earbud hole, using some kind of silicon or rubber hose/tube, cut  ~2mm lenght and glue it to the earbud hole and make a interface to use IEM filters, I think they are around 2 or 2.5mm (depends on the brand), then just change filters. I don't know if it's doable or even usefull.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32990477665.html
> 
> ...


This is a brilliant idea! I also had the idea of making tune-able vents like those **** KP ones but that is pretty much close to the vision. I might try drilling a hole on an mx500 shell and do that


----------



## jeejack (Jan 7, 2021)

Guys i just finish my first DIY experience 32 ohm N52 and 19-21. Where you put tuning foam? Only on speaker holes? I use MX500 shell


----------



## captione (Jan 7, 2021)

jeejack said:


> Guys i just finish my first DIY experience 32 ohm N52 and 19-21. Where you put tuning foam? Only on speaker holes? I use MX500 shell


You don't really need the additional tuning foam on the N52s (if you intend to do it without some further tinkering, but if you do make sure to dig this thread for more info). There is already installed in there, but experiment if you can!
On the 19-21, you need it, but make sure that you stick it on the shell vents (just works more safely) though you could definitely put the tuning foams in the vents of the drivers themselves.

Just make sure you avoid bumping the driver vent where the coil wires are located. *


----------



## furyossa

Merlin-PT said:


> I saw some round filters for other purposes, then I thought if it was possible to make an hole adapter, inside or outside the earbud hole, using some kind of silicon or rubber hose/tube, cut  ~2mm lenght and glue it to the earbud hole and make a interface to use IEM filters, I think they are around 2 or 2.5mm (depends on the brand), then just change filters. I don't know if it's doable or even usefull.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32990477665.html
> 
> ...


These filters are for tuning BA in the case when you want to attenuate certain frequencies to achieve the best possible transition between frequencies 
when a crossover is applied. For the big drivers (14.8 and 15.4mm) these filters are not so useful. I own Senfer_KP120 which use similar filters on the back but sound
is better when I remove these filters. I tried this OSTRY ear tips but filtered sound is a bit weird. Also, you can improvise similar effect by open bass port on MX500 shell and add some foam or other absorbent material. An interesting experiment can be tried with this 13.5mm driver, acoustic tube and IEM filter


----------



## jeejack

captione said:


> You don't really need the additional tuning foam on the N52s (if you intend to do it without some further tinkering, but if you do make sure to dig this thread for more info). There is already installed in there, but experiment if you can!
> On the 19-21, you need it, but make sure that you stick it on the shell vents (just works more safely) though you could definitely put the tuning foams in the vents of the drivers themselves.
> 
> Just make sure you avoid bumping the driver vent where the coil wires are located. *


Just like I did. I thought you did something extra
Thank you!
What do you recommend for the next project? 64 ohm ti, 150 ohm, 130 ohm beryllium? I mention that the most powerful dac / amp of mine is Fiio q3 which drives well RY4S 300 ohm version


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jan 7, 2021)

captione said:


> I'll try with and without the horseshoe. Too afraid to remove the cotton since this is my first time handling such drivers.



Experiment before removing all the white horseshoe, it's better to only unglue a bit of the corner and open part of one hole, then listen, then if needed open 1 full hole, listen, etc.
Some drivers when you remove the whole white horseshoe, it's too much open air gap and the bass gets uncontrolled, others it's ok to open more holes. We need to try and listen.
The 130 ohm I tried and the bass got uncontrolled when all holes were opened, in the 400ohm it was ok to open all holes, but maybe all is also too much. One version of the 400 ohm I liked with 2 holes opened in the white horseshoe, but positioned behind the outside venting ports of the outside mx500 shell (the black horseshoe was covering both inside and ouside holes). Some other 300 ohm I have, I liked with only a bit of both corners of the white horseshoe lifted.
Interesting, I think that @Themilkman46290 described the same hole positons in the 400 but with wooden shells, I didn't have time to try the wooden shells yet.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 7, 2021)

jeejack said:


> Just like I did. I thought you did something extra
> Thank you!
> What do you recommend for the next project? 64 ohm ti, 150 ohm, 130 ohm beryllium? I mention that the most powerful dac / amp of mine is Fiio q3 which drives well RY4S 300 ohm version


Fiio Q3 can drive 400,500,600ohm. Balanced output plus gain switch "on" , will give them more than enough power and they will shine. Anyway
... with 130ohm Bery you certainly won't go wrong. 64ohm Ti has two versions: Full Ti coat and composite (PU+Ti). Full Ti required serious tuning to sound right but it's not better than 130ohm Bery. I don't have any DIY 150ohm 15.4mm, only PK1 150ohm "red film" and some branded buds


----------



## jeejack (Jan 7, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Fiio Q3 can drive 400,500,600ohm. Balanced output plus gain switch "on" , will give them more than enough power and they will shine. Anyway
> ... with 130ohm Bery you certainly won't go wrong. 64ohm Ti has two versions: Full Ti coat and composite (PU+Ti). Full Ti required serious tuning to sound right but it's not better than 130ohm Bery. I don't have any DIY 150ohm 15.4mm, only PK1 150ohm "red film" and some branded buds


Thank you ! I will buy 130ohm Bery. Any recomandation from you guys?


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Thank you ! I will buy 130ohm Bery. Any recomandation from you ?


Recomandation for what? I love to use and experiment with different shells and for high impendance drivers I mostly use metal shells for many reasons: looks, fit and comfort, over-ear wearing, non-resonant, mmcx etc. I suggest medium cavity-size shell (in my "inventory" you can find #1, #2, #3 examples for 130ohm driver) which has similar inner volume size like MX500


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> Thank you ! I will buy 130ohm Bery. Any recomandation from you guys?


If you want to try clean mids and sweet highs, try the 68ohm
If you want to try some crazy rumbly, worldshaking sub bass, tri the 64ohm composite ti
But you won't go wrong with 130ohm, there one of my favorites


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> If you want to try clean mids and sweet highs, try the 68ohm
> If you want to try some crazy rumbly, worldshaking sub bass, tri the 64ohm composite ti
> But you won't go wrong with 130ohm, there one of my favorites


Got it ! I will ask for help to tuning them ! Thank you!


----------



## furyossa (Jan 10, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> If you want to try clean mids and sweet highs, try the 68ohm
> If you want to try some crazy rumbly, worldshaking sub bass, tri the 64ohm composite ti
> But you won't go wrong with 130ohm, there one of my favorites


They could have advertised this driver a little better, in their style: _The strongest 6-pack ever! aka "Lady killer" _
Edit: _Use it with transparent shells to impress ladies!!! _
@Themilkman46290 knows what I'm talking about


----------



## furyossa (Jan 9, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I use EVA foam for my coupler to reduce resonance from a plastic tube. EVA foam is like human skin, it's soft and act like absorber.
> I noticed that by reducing the internal volume, it has a lot of effect on the final measurement. Also, we need to use "lightly" seal, as close as possible to the natural way of wearing earbuds.
> The average length of the ear canal is around 25mm and the diameter is around 7mm. Now what is also important?
> The section of the ear canal has an elliptical shape and not circular like an ordinary tube. The second and perhaps most important thing is that the ear canal is curved in length and changes its diameter.
> ...


*iMM-6 coupler: re-design #4*
This little experiment shows how much the curvature of the ear canal affects the change of frequency response relative to the standard cylindrical coupler




*(1.)* This coupler has an organic shape and tries to mimic the ear canal. I sculpt it using polymer clay. This material is very reminiscent of Blu-Tack and after baking it becomes very firm and slightly elastic.
I use this image as reference for my coupler




*(2.)* The earbud holds nicely in it but due to the uneven surface, the sealing is not ideal as is the case when the earbud is placed in the ear.
This is the difference between measurement for standard cylindrical (#3) and ear canal coupler (#4). I use ShoonTH ESEP-01BL buds for testing.




(3.) Unlike IEM's, which have a direct ear canal flow (the front sound wave goes directly in the ear canal), earbuds due to their size at a normal ear size have an average of 30-60% direct ear canal flow. The image below shows the orientation of the earbud *(a.)* if the earbud is placed at this angle then direct ear canal flow is less than 50%
*(b.)* if the bug is placed at this angle (ear canal direction) then direct ear canal flow is more than 50%.




In both cases, a certain part of the ear blocks the direct sound wave. To achieve similar conditions I inserted a small piece of EVA foam that
slightly crosses the canal entrance. What I noticed is: if I cover the opening at the canal entrance more, the peak that is now at 7.2K moves to the left (6.9-7.0K) and by opening the whole entrance than the peak shifts to the right at 7.7-7.8K.
I will test this setup a bit more with different buds. Also, I plan to create compensation files to check if measurements with this coupler are correct.
If all this goes well, probably 3D print will be the final version


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> *iMM-6 coupler: re-design #4*
> This little experiment shows how much the curvature of the ear canal affects the change of frequency response relative to the standard cylindrical coupler
> 
> 
> ...


Great post @furyossa !   

The only thing is that the first photo is of MEMT T5, which is Earpods like (semi in-ear?  ) and the sound flow is in fact directed to the ear canal and not he other way like your image shows.


----------



## usergate (Jan 10, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> If you want to try clean mids and sweet highs, try the 68ohm


Wrap them up, I'll take them to go.


Themilkman46290 said:


> If you don't plan to spend slot of time tuning, I would recommend it very much over the 400ohm but if you are willing to tinker with it for a while, and plan on tuning it and modifying the shells then I would recommend the 400ohm.


I want to buy something with high impedance. A little confused by the frequency response graph for 400 Ohm:

500 Ohm:

I love clean and airy high frequencies. I miss them in Smabat 10s gold. How about them at 400 ohms, 500 ohms? Or other drivers?  Thank you.


----------



## assassin10000

usergate said:


> Wrap them up, I'll take them to go.
> 
> I want to buy something with high impedance. A little confused by the frequency response graph for 400 Ohm:
> 
> ...



Going by the graphs the 500ohm have more treble. 


When looking at MFG graphs like this, it appears they place the driver in a sealed tube with the microphone. That is why the bass is basically a shelf that rolls downwards into the upper mids/treble if you are used to looking at IEM graphs.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 10, 2021)

The3DCie said:


> Great post @furyossa !
> 
> The only thing is that the first photo is of MEMT T5, which is Earpods like (semi in-ear?  ) and the sound flow is in fact directed to the ear canal and not he other way like your image shows.


I honestly didn’t know MEMT T5 was using AirPods cover. Here I just wanted to show the orientation of the shell in the ear and classic Mx500 "like" cover


----------



## The3DCie

furyossa said:


> I honestly didn’t know MEMT T5 was using AirPods cover. Here I just wanted to show the orientation of the shell in the ear and classic Mx500 "like" cover


I know it wasn't intentional and for the purpose of your demonstration this photo is telling a lot, so no worries!    
It was just to mention that they are indeed Earpods like, that's why it looks weirdly directed on that particular photo!  
The fact that I'm using foams with them doesn't help to see the bud itself...


----------



## furyossa

The3DCie said:


> I know it wasn't intentional and for the purpose of your demonstration this photo is telling a lot, so no worries!
> It was just to mention that they are indeed Earpods like, that's why it looks weirdly directed on that particular photo!
> The fact that I'm using foams with them doesn't help to see the bud itself...


You trick me for sure  Honestly I’m not a fan of AirPods style of front cover. I use only "flat head" or "nozzle" style buds


----------



## usergate

The cheapest 130-bery? https://aliexpress.com/item/4000051991677.html


----------



## Themilkman46290

usergate said:


> Wrap them up, I'll take them to go.
> 
> I want to buy something with high impedance. A little confused by the frequency response graph for 400 Ohm:
> 
> ...


So far, for me, the 500 are good but polite (not so rolled off like the 600ohm) the 400 are good but not the best in the highs against the 130ohm

If you need the highs, I would g
Say the 130ohm, then the 500ohm, then the 400

But the 68ohm is a pretty good contender, haven't got it tuned yet but it's focus is in the high and mids
So for mids I would say the best are between the 600ohm and the 68ohm 

For highs, 130ohm 

Overall I still feel the 400ohm is best

64ohm ti composite and 400ohm are the sub bass monsters


----------



## jeejack

Witch one you chose between 64 ohm and 400 ohm ?


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Witch one you chose between 64 ohm and 400 ohm ?


If you have good DAC/Amp than 400ohm is way to go without a doubt.


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> If you have good DAC/Amp than 400ohm is way to go without a doubt.


I have Fiio Q3 it should be ok. I decided to buy 130 bery and 400 ohm. Good choice ?


----------



## captione (Jan 11, 2021)

Just finished the 130ohm Be build. Finished it instantly once the drivers came because I was that excited, also because already prepared the cable and the shell.


So I started my tuning (with/without the tuning foam, cotton on the drivers still on) and I think I prefer it without one. Piling up the tuning foam* on the already-placed cotton horseshoe made it somehow treble-hot.
The bass on the "tuning foam-less" configuration sold me and I glued the drivers in place with that configuration. The listening experience felt like a headphone rather than an earbud. Bery amazing drivers.


----------



## jeejack

Good job ! Thank you for info !


----------



## furyossa (Jan 11, 2021)

Great choice. You will enjoy. Also, with Q3 you don't need to worry at all when it comes to earphones.
I will suggest to go with a balanced cable


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Just finished the 130ohm Be build. Finished it instantly once the drivers came because I was that excited, also because already prepared the cable and the shell.
> 
> So I started my tuning (with/without the tuning foam, cotton on the drivers still on) and I think I prefer it without one. Piling up the tuning foam* on the already-placed cotton horseshoe made it somehow treble-hot.
> The bass on the "tuning foam-less" configuration sold me and I glued the drivers in place with that configuration. The listening experience felt like a headphone rather than an earbud. Bery amazing drivers.


Nice job, looks great. Why glue? MX500 shells holds driver very well


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> Nice job, looks great. Why glue? MX500 shells holds driver very well


Probably has to do with my shells being out of spec, or the faceplate. It happens sometimes. Also happens alot on these kinds of drivers with the cotton already attached (in my experience), it doesn't have some form of support on the back to prevent it from turning around. So yeah, glue needed. Only applied on the shell's lips around the back if some unfortunate accident on the drivers or cables occur.


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> Witch one you chose between 64 ohm and 400 ohm ?


The 64ohm are easier to tune then the 400, but distorts a bit at higher volume.
The 400ohm harder to tune, but have better control, better mids and highs, I bought 2 pairs of 400ohm, 2 pairs of 130ohms the rest I've only bought 1 pair of each (600,500,68,64ohm)
So that's how much those two drivers impressed 

But I also have a collection of tuning papers, foams in a variety of thicknesses and various screens and meshes

So it may depend on how much time your willing to spend tuning.


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> Great choice. You will enjoy. Also, with Q3 you don't need to worry at all when it comes to earphones.
> I will suggest to go with a balanced cable


Balanced cable will be ! I will put the driver in mmcx MX500 shell's. Thank you !


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> The 64ohm are easier to tune then the 400, but distorts a bit at higher volume.
> The 400ohm harder to tune, but have better control, better mids and highs, I bought 2 pairs of 400ohm, 2 pairs of 130ohms the rest I've only bought 1 pair of each (600,500,68,64ohm)
> So that's how much those two drivers impressed
> 
> ...


You have final version of 400 ohm tuning ?


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> You have final version of 400 ohm tuning ?


I posted one of my favorite tunings for this driver a few pages back, in a wooden housing

I did get a slightly better sounding result on the second attempt but glue it shut without writing it down.... To scared to open it, dont want to crack the shell

But sound is really subjective, I would experiment until you find your ideal sound, lately I have decided to stick with mx500 shells, using ports, tubing and filters to tune


----------



## jeejack

Do I have a chance to make the 32 ohm N52 driver brighter?


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Jan 11, 2021)

jeejack said:


> Do I have a chance to make the 32 ohm N52 driver brighter?


How much brighter? 
Do you have tuning foams?

So there are many ways to tune drivers, some easier then others, let's start with that

Stuff the shells with loose cotton. 
Use thicker cotton tuning paper, they come in several thickness, from y2 to y6 (y2 being bassier and y6 binging out the upper highs, sub bass) they basically push mids back in most cases, they go directly on the driver, don't work on the shell (too thin) 


Then there are foams some are meant for the shell but can be used on the driver (it leaves a few holes open on the driver for a bit more bass) some use this on the shell with nothing else on the driver

Some are made specifically for the driver yolk, they cover all holes, they mainly bring down peaks but can make other drivers peaky, doesn't push the mids back as bad as thick white cotton  but don't give as much bass as thin papers, they can be cut and placed on shells, come in couple densities

Lately there has popped up a new, uncut ring foam, a foam like this would close the bass hole and reduce bass drastically. 


I haven't tried those, but as soon as they sell for a reasonable price (not 20 something dollars) I will order

 BUT I have simply cut any foam to go over the bass port, carefully remove a bit of glue from a small section (not to stick&rip the voice coil) then used papers on other holes


----------



## jeejack (Jan 11, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> How much brighter?
> Do you have tuning foams?
> 
> So there are many ways to tune drivers, some easier then others, let's start with that
> ...


Wow !!! I must buy some tuning foam and paper. I have only stock foam. Thank you very much!


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> Wow !!! I must buy some tuning foam and paper. I have only stock foam. Thank you very much!


While you wate for shipping, you can true cutting thin felt or cotton fiber  in thin strips


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> How much brighter?
> Do you have tuning foams?
> 
> So there are many ways to tune drivers, some easier then others, let's start with that
> ...


Nice post. First time I see these small ring foams. I don't know why is the price different from horseshoe foams. Basically U need less work to make these.
Also, it's possible to improvise the whole ring by assembling two half-rings of horseshoe foams, but I don’t see the need to close the bass port.

About your MX500 model with external tube, are you finished tuning? How did it all turn out in the end?

@jeejack if you not have these filters you can always use some absorption materials and your imagination: different fabrics, medical masks, canvas, wool, mop fibers, cotton, EVA foam, cork, sponge etc.


----------



## cappuchino

I need help. Is this still repairable??? I'm also not sure if I burnt anything (there's a black spot) during my recable attempt.

Thanks!


----------



## assassin10000

sub30 said:


> I need help. Is this still repairable??? I'm also not sure if I burnt anything (there's a black spot) during my recable attempt.
> 
> Thanks!



Ouch. Got it too hot? Looks like the pcb traces are gone.


----------



## cappuchino

assassin10000 said:


> Ouch. Got it too hot? Looks like the pcb traces are gone.


Is the pcb traces where the wires attach?


----------



## captione (Jan 11, 2021)

sub30 said:


> I need help. Is this still repairable??? I'm also not sure if I burnt anything (there's a black spot) during my recable attempt.
> 
> Thanks!


Yeaouch, the solder point on that other driver is completely gone.
I think you should just buy another pair of em, and I'll assume it's cheap because that looks like a Vido driver.

@Themilkman46290 I didn't even notice there was that full ring tuning foam and various thickness of cotton horseshoe available. Thanks for the heads up, glad to learn something new everyday!

Though I'm a bit skeptical about covering those coil holes with that full ring tuning foam though, but it's an experiment worth trying


----------



## cappuchino

captione said:


> Yeaouch, the solder point on that other driver is completely gone.
> I think you should just buy another pair of em, and I'll assume it's cheap because that looks like a Vido driver.
> 
> @Themilkman46290 I didn't even notice there was that full ring tuning foam and various thickness of cotton horseshoe available. Thanks for the heads up, glad to learn something new everyday!
> ...


They _are _Vido's. I'm starting to think I'm not cut-out for DIY stuff as I just also damaged the voice coil of my Faaeal Poppy because of my carelessness. Thanks!


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> They _are _Vido's. I'm starting to think I'm not cut-out for DIY stuff as I just also damaged the voice coil of my Faaeal Poppy because of my carelessness. Thanks!


See this video. It can help for sure


----------



## captione

sub30 said:


> They _are _Vido's. I'm starting to think I'm not cut-out for DIY stuff as I just also damaged the voice coil of my Faaeal Poppy because of my carelessness. Thanks!


Don't be bummed out! We need to start somewhere... My first broken earbud from tinkering was also a FAAEAL, a Snow Lotus. After that, it was four pairs of Vidos (but usually due to my experimentation and other stuff i did like practicing to solder). 

Also broke fairly expensive drivers like my other Titanium project failed a while ago, it kinda broke my confidence but I guess you can't go nowhere if you don't finish it, so I continued after a good break. 
Now, I just finished building my 130ohm earphones and still doing it! Just keep practicing, failure is just part of the DIY journey.


----------



## furyossa

My great failures:
- original 14.8mm EMX500 (discontinued and can no longer be found). This is not fake 15.4mm EMX500. They sound very different
- K's 300
- HE150 (not Pro) (discontinued and can no longer be found).
The worst is that the 1st and 3rd pair are one of the best pairs that I have
I still keep them hoping to fix them. Has anyone managed to remove (detach) the driver from the cover without destroying the cover?


----------



## Themilkman46290

captione said:


> Yeaouch, the solder point on that other driver is completely gone.
> I think you should just buy another pair of em, and I'll assume it's cheap because that looks like a Vido driver.
> 
> @Themilkman46290 I didn't even notice there was that full ring tuning foam and various thickness of cotton horseshoe available. Thanks for the heads up, glad to learn something new everyday!
> ...


Covering the bass hole seems crazy, but I did it to a couple pairs of drivers, specifically drivers that sounded too boomy with 1 extra hole open and too dry with simply the bass port open, so I covered the bass port and open the yolk holes and applied loose cotton over 2 yolk holes, gave me really linear sub bass without getting boomy


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> My great failures:
> - original 14.8mm EMX500 (discontinued and can no longer be found). This is not fake 15.4mm EMX500. They sound very different
> - K's 300
> - HE150 (not Pro) (discontinued and can no longer be found).
> ...


Oh damn, the OG EMX500. Fengru still sells em here, although I don't know what's left of the original anyway. I bought the one that has a 4 core braided cable. The drivers on Fengru's newer EMX500 used is basically an upgraded "Vido" type driver with better epoxy and a fully covered centre vent on the PCB. Bought one because it's an essential starter pack. 

Speaking of drivers, I dissected both my dead Vido and 19-21 "pink dot" titanium drivers. 


Spoiler: Pictures with notes









Spoiler: PCB









*Top: *_Vido _
*Bottom: *_19-21 32ohm Titanium "pink dot" _

Notes: 
The Vido has a more common layout, although I don't know where they based the drivers from (please let me know). Weak epoxy, can be easily scrubbed by your fingernails. Sometimes doesn't even cover the center vent well (hence why alot of people report unit variances, this is usually the reason). 
The Vido's PCB looked cheaply made though, but it is what it is. 

The 19-21 uses a variation of the original MX500 Foster drivers, with a hole on the center but as you will see in the next spoiler, it's not used. Has a more stronger epoxy that covers alot of the PCB. 
I'm pretty surprised that the 19-21 uses almost all of the board for the contact point, well it isn't called "big solder" for nothing.





Spoiler: Drivers without PCB









*Top: *_Vido _
*Bottom: *_19-21 32ohm Titanium "pink dot" _

Notes: The Vidos have the center vent which alot of modders take advantage of for tuning (this is also the reason why Vidos are such a popular driver to DIY imo, gives you alot of tuning potential for cost of a convenience store meal.)


The 19-21 has one but, it's covered by the magnet, and it has two solder points that holds the PCB together (please correct me if I'm wrong!)

The vent hole for the coils is bigger on the 19-21 than the Vidos, V and U shaped respectively. The 19-21 also has a little bit bigger magnet compared to the Vidos too.





Spoiler: Diaphragm






*Top: *_Vido_
*Bottom: *_19-21 32ohm Titanium "pink dot" _

Notes: 
Both of them probably uses PET or some kind of plastic material with good flexibility, except the 19-21 is coated with Titanium. 
Surprisingly enough, the 19-21s are much more brittle compared to the Vido diaphragm, as far as observation goes. 

The Vidos also has a lot of out ridges on the diaphragm VS. the 19-21. 
The height of the cone and the outer ridges is a bit higher on the 19-21, the cone part is a bit big too compared to Vido. 
The ridge line thickness is bigger on the 19-21 VS. Vido. 

I don't know how to translate this into acoustic data and I probably said some wrong terms but please let me know!


----------



## captione

Themilkman46290 said:


> Covering the bass hole seems crazy, but I did it to a couple pairs of drivers, specifically drivers that sounded too boomy with 1 extra hole open and too dry with simply the bass port open, so I covered the bass port and open the yolk holes and applied loose cotton over 2 yolk holes, gave me really linear sub bass without getting boomy



Interesting observation. Might try that! Guess I'll buy another pair of Vidos for experiments 😆
I hope those full ring foams are available here. Gonna request some at my favourite online store...


----------



## jeejack

captione said:


> Oh damn, the OG EMX500. Fengru still sells em here, although I don't know what's left of the original anyway. I bought the one that has a 4 core braided cable. The drivers on Fengru's newer EMX500 used is basically an upgraded "Vido" type driver with better epoxy and a fully covered centre vent on the PCB. Bought one because it's an essential starter pack.
> 
> Speaking of drivers, I dissected both my dead Vido and 19-21 "pink dot" titanium drivers.
> 
> ...


19-21 driver that you have it's other than this?


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> 19-21 driver that you have it's other than this?


Yep, in nsc, there is red dot, pink dot, and maybe a green dot


----------



## furyossa (Jan 12, 2021)

captione said:


> Oh damn, the OG EMX500. Fengru still sells em here, although I don't know what's left of the original anyway. I bought the one that has a 4 core braided cable. The drivers on Fengru's newer EMX500 used is basically an upgraded "Vido" type driver with better epoxy and a fully covered centre vent on the PCB. Bought one because it's an essential starter pack.
> 
> Speaking of drivers, I both my dead Vido and 19-21 "pink dot" titanium drivers.
> 
> ...


the OG EMX500 was 14.8mm driver not 15.4mm
When you dissected these drivers did you manage to not damage the covers?


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yep, in nsc, there is red dot, pink dot, and maybe a green dot


This it's the right 19-21 speaker which is being talked about on the forum? I bought the one in the picture I posted


----------



## captione (Jan 12, 2021)

jeejack said:


> 19-21 driver that you have it's other than this?


Yup, I have 3 variants as @Themilkman46290 said.
32ohms _green dot_
32 ohms _pink dot_ (32ohms Titanium, "upgrade" of the red dot, or side variant)
64ohms _black dot_ (64ohm Titanium, "upgrade" for the green dot)
and my 32ohms _red dot_ drivers are now in transit waiting to be build.
There is also a composite version of the red dot that @Themilkman46290 made. I skipped collecting it for now because I already have the full titanium pink dot. Dunno which of these two are actually "upgrades" to the red dot though.

I'll post comparisons once I finished the red dot.


furyossa said:


> the OG EMX500 was 14.8mm driver not 15.4mm
> When you dissected these drivers did you manage to not damage the covers?



Woah, 14.8mm??? That's wild. I did a similar size out of spec build using 14.8mm drivers into 15.4mm faceplates but seeing that into mass production? Man that's crazy! Wish I started the hobby earlier...
Maybe not out-of-spec, but I do see some 14.8mm MX500 models, like the reports of Moondrop Shiroyuki being one. 

On the subject of saving faceplates though, I don't think it's possible, I've been transplanting my drivers with the risk of breaking its own faceplate. There's some drivers that I managed to pull without damaging the drivers tho, I think I did that on the Yuin SR Pro drivers. It all depends on the glue they're using to stick em after all.

Did you try stressing the faceplate lips around the drivers? Seems like a possible solution but a bit risky...


----------



## furyossa (Jan 12, 2021)

captione said:


> Yup, I have 3 variants as @Themilkman46290 said.
> 32ohms _green dot_
> 32 ohms _pink dot_ (32ohms Titanium, "upgrade" of the red dot, or side variant)
> 64ohms _black dot_ (64ohm Titanium, "upgrade" for the green dot)
> ...


Yup I tried that. Both driver (EMX500 and HE150) have broken voice coil wire ... I think.
I plan to try to poor Aceton (Nail Polish Remover) where the driver touches the shell. It removes the glue perfectly.
EMX500 was the first driver with "wow" effect that I tried. It's not better than PK1 "red film" but maybe a bit better than PK2.
Still, the "first love" is hard to forget


----------



## jeejack

captione said:


> Yup, I have 3 variants as @Themilkman46290 said.
> 32ohms _green dot_
> 32 ohms _pink dot_ (32ohms Titanium, "upgrade" of the red dot, or side variant)
> 64ohms _black dot_ (64ohm Titanium, "upgrade" for the green dot)
> ...


Thank you! This will be my next purchase together with 64 ohm ti and 68 ohm


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Yup I tried that. Both driver (EMX500 and HE150) have broken voice coil wire ... I think.
> I plan to try to poor Aceton (Nail Polish Remover) where the driver touches the shell. It removes the glue perfectly.
> EMX500 was the first driver with "wow" effect that I tried. It's not better than PK1 "red film" but maybe a bit better than PK2.
> Still, the "first love" is hard to forget



I'd be worried the acetone could damage the membrane. But it's not like the fumes of superglue that definitely will.

Perhaps try a q-tip wipe first instead of soaking it?


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> I'd be worried the acetone could damage the membrane. But it's not like the fumes of superglue that definitely will.
> 
> Perhaps try a q-tip wipe first instead of soaking it?


That's the plan. I will use a syringe and a needle but before that I will tape the vents so that the liquid does not pass to the membrane


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> That's the plan. I will use a syringe and a needle but before that I will tape the vents so that the liquid does not pass to the membrane


Noooo, I tried something like that, bad idea, not enough control, didn't realize until I pulled the faceplate
A good aquarelle brush, in 01 or 00 size is ideal
In general, the smallest aquarelle brush is much better (they are made to hold water until you touch the tip) syringes squirt making them harder to control, a brush releases but don't soak


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Noooo, I tried something like that, bad idea, not enough control, didn't realize until I pulled the faceplate
> A good aquarelle brush, in 01 or 00 size is ideal
> In general, the smallest aquarelle brush is much better (they are made to hold water until you touch the tip) syringes squirt making them harder to control, a brush releases but don't soak


Did you manage to separate the driver that way? Can the liquid pass to the glue at all?


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Did you manage to separate the driver that way? Can the liquid pass to the glue at all?


It got on the diaphragm, lost the drivers


----------



## Sam L

Hey Everyone, I wanted to chime in with some observations regarding some buds @assassin10000 put together. I've been meaning to do a more detailed writeup but priorities have shifted, leaving me with very little time to experiment and share things on headfi. 

*120ohm Beryllium by @assassin10000 *

I'll try to post some nice pictures up later when I get back home. I'm sure assassin10000 has some pics in this thread somewhere of his approach to adding mmcx sockets to earbud shells. For those that don't know, he shortens the stem right up to the driver housing. This results in a clean, more user-friendly result as compared to how RY4S does it with the cable sleeve adding quite a bit more length to the unaltered stems -- too long for my tastes.

The overall tonality is lean and analytical, particularly in the context of earbuds. A parallel would be the hifiman re400 or ety er2se among the IEM space. That's not to say these buds sound like either of those items, but it's a good parallel as to how they sound in the context of the format.

Here's the FR:



Another thing to get out of the way is that these buds require some serious power to drive well. They will sound lifeless and constrained on lesser-powered devices. Which may be a challenge for some mobile users. My qudelix 5k balanced output and my Oppo HA-2 work but more power is preferred. I mostly use a pico amp in the neighborhood of 1 watt at 32 ohm.

Bass is lean but sufficiently present when powered properly, with some sub-bass rolloff as the graph shows. Mid and upper bass is fast and very clear. The stock tuning from 20hz to 2.5khz is fantastic, a rarity among the 20 or so buds I've measured and graphed.

Clarity and resolution are great throughout the FR. The main weakness of these buds is the soundstage. I think this mainly has to do with the two notches at 4k and 9k, which are both too deep. The sonic recession in both these regions affect staging prominently and is the main correction I use with these buds. I should note here that I correct every iem and earbud in my possession, so this is not a slight against the sound quality of these buds. My iems are normalized to oratory1990 target and my earbuds are currently targeted to my own v1.5 curve. Other than soundstage, the stock tuning of these buds is excellent. Good job, @assassin10000!

This v1.5 bass version compensation curve adds some bass and improves the soundstage considerably:


----------



## assassin10000

Sam L said:


> Hey Everyone, I wanted to chime in with some observations regarding some buds @assassin10000 put together. I've been meaning to do a more detailed writeup but priorities have shifted, leaving me with very little time to experiment and share things on headfi.
> 
> *120ohm Beryllium by @assassin10000 *
> 
> ...



This is the only pic I have saved.


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> It got on the diaphragm, lost the drivers


Damn glue! I hope that some universal solution will appear to avoid this problem. Sambat already has an interesting modular solution, but definitely more different solutions are needed


----------



## assassin10000

Maybe run a hobby/x-acto knife around the outside edge and cut the glue to help facilitate removal? If the tip will go down between the driver and cover it may break the glue free.


----------



## captione (Jan 12, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Damn glue! I hope that some universal solution will appear to avoid this problem. Sambat already has an interesting modular solution, but definitely more different solutions are needed


Breaking faceplates is the only way to go 🤷‍♂️
But the brush method for applying acetone seems more effective. A bit more finesse is required though.
Same goes for the xacto knife. 

Maybe doing both methods might give you better results, like do the brush method and finishing off with the knife to remove sticky bits.


----------



## ThanosD

Hey everyone, I am looking for a recommendation for a budget earbud for 30$ max. I prefer there to be an mmcx connector and metal housing, although none of them is obligatory. I currently own a pair of S****r PT15, and I am looking for something with more bass, and more detailed highs. Initially, I was considering buying JCALLY EP05, RY4S, FENGRU DIY EMX500, or TMUSIC Beryllium. I originally posted my question on the " Earbuds Round-Up" thread, but I was suggested to post it here too because I don't mind assembling my own. Is there a combination of parts you would suggest to me, that is worth over the already assembled ones? Somebody recommended I check the name OPENHEART, and I can see they have several assembled ones, with metal housing, and mmcx. Are any of them something I should consider buying?


----------



## furyossa

ThanosD said:


> Hey everyone, I am looking for a recommendation for a budget earbud for 30$ max. I prefer there to be an mmcx connector and metal housing, although none of them is obligatory. I currently own a pair of S****r PT15, and I am looking for something with more bass, and more detailed highs. Initially, I was considering buying JCALLY EP05, RY4S, FENGRU DIY EMX500, or TMUSIC Beryllium. I originally posted my question on the " Earbuds Round-Up" thread, but I was suggested to post it here too because I don't mind assembling my own. Is there a combination of parts you would suggest to me, that is worth over the already assembled ones? Somebody recommended I check the name OPENHEART, and I can see they have several assembled ones, with metal housing, and mmcx. Are any of them something I should consider buying?


https://willyboy.home.blog/head-fi-diy-earbuds-wiki/


----------



## kakaworu

ThanosD said:


> Hey everyone, I am looking for a recommendation for a budget earbud for 30$ max. I prefer there to be an mmcx connector and metal housing, although none of them is obligatory. I currently own a pair of S****r PT15, and I am looking for something with more bass, and more detailed highs. Initially, I was considering buying JCALLY EP05, RY4S, FENGRU DIY EMX500, or TMUSIC Beryllium. I originally posted my question on the " Earbuds Round-Up" thread, but I was suggested to post it here too because I don't mind assembling my own. Is there a combination of parts you would suggest to me, that is worth over the already assembled ones? Somebody recommended I check the name OPENHEART, and I can see they have several assembled ones, with metal housing, and mmcx. Are any of them something I should consider buying?


If i were you, i would just remove the EP05 from the list. It cannot even compete with vido in anyways.


----------



## ThanosD (Jan 15, 2021)

kakaworu said:


> If i were you, i would just remove the EP05 from the list. It cannot even compete with vido in anyways.


Hmm, alright then. Vido, you mean the RY4S?



furyossa said:


> https://willyboy.home.blog/head-fi-diy-earbuds-wiki/


I really appreciate your effort to try and help me, but I am afraid I will disappoint you, as I don't have the time to research drivers, shells, tunings, and compare them at the moment. If there is a particular configuration you would suggest, I am willing to try it, but I really don't have the time right now to do a proper research


----------



## ThanosD

.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 15, 2021)

ThanosD said:


> Hmm, alright then. Vido, you mean the RY4S?
> 
> 
> I really appreciate your effort to try and help me, but I am afraid I will disappoint you, as I don't have the time to research drivers, shells, tunings, and compare them at the moment. If there is a particular configuration you would suggest, I am willing to try it, but I really don't have the time right now to do a proper research


Then go with RY4S Plus.


----------



## ThanosD

furyossa said:


> Then go with RY4S Plus.


Are these the same as Vido?


----------



## furyossa

ThanosD said:


> Are these the same as Vido?


This model has nothing to do with the Vido model.


----------



## ThanosD

furyossa said:


> This model has nothing to do with the Vido model.


Oh, alright. I am gonna order the RY4S plus then, thanks a lot for your help!


----------



## jeejack

ThanosD said:


> Oh, alright. I am gonna order the RY4S plus then, thanks a lot for your help!


Very good choice!


----------



## Maceinspace

furyossa said:


> Fiio Q3 can drive 400,500,600ohm. Balanced output plus gain switch "on" , will give them more than enough power and they will shine. Anyway
> ... with 130ohm Bery you certainly won't go wrong. 64ohm Ti has two versions: Full Ti coat and composite (PU+Ti). Full Ti required serious tuning to sound right but it's not better than 130ohm Bery. I don't have any DIY 150ohm 15.4mm, only PK1 150ohm "red film" and some branded buds


I picked up the 64ohm full Ti but I have a feeling I haven't optimized the tuning. Mind telling me how would you recommend tuning it in a MX500 shell? Thanks man!


----------



## captione

Maceinspace said:


> I picked up the 64ohm full Ti but I have a feeling I haven't optimized the tuning. Mind telling me how would you recommend tuning it in a MX500 shell? Thanks man!


How do you want it to sound like? I personally think the warm and smooth sound of it is amazing. 
Maybe you should try various horseshoe foams like a full vent or cotton. Maybe even combining the standard horseshoe with cotton might give you some result. 

You could always drill a vent in the shell to increase the bass/warmth, but I also think that it has enough bass to satisfy, standard tuning wise. If you drill the hole make sure it's a part of the shell that's not covered by your ear.


----------



## Maceinspace (Jan 16, 2021)

captione said:


> How do you want it to sound like? I personally think the warm and smooth sound of it is amazing.
> Maybe you should try various horseshoe foams like a full vent or cotton. Maybe even combining the standard horseshoe with cotton might give you some result.
> 
> You could always drill a vent in the shell to increase the bass/warmth, but I also think that it has enough bass to satisfy, standard tuning wise. If you drill the hole make sure it's a part of the shell that's not covered by your ear.



It's definitely a solid driver for sure! The bass is great but mids and highs aren't as detailed and crisp as I'd like. I've kept the stock tuning foam but with an opened bass channel in the shell (maybe this was my error). 

I didn't specify a faceplate material when ordering so I got metal mesh, which makes me worried about breaking the driver each time I open the shell lol. Have you experimented with reducing enclosure size with cottom or adding black foam to the inner portion of the shell? I've seem folks do this but am still unsure of it's purpose.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 16, 2021)

Maceinspace said:


> It's definitely a solid driver for sure! The bass is great but mids and highs aren't as detailed and crisp as I'd like. *I've kept the stock tuning foam but with an opened bass channel in the shell (maybe this was my error).*
> I didn't specify a faceplate material when ordering so I got metal mesh, which makes me worried about breaking the driver each time I open the shell lol. Have you experimented with reducing enclosure size with cottom or adding black foam to the inner portion of the shell? I've seem folks do this but am still unsure of it's purpose.


64ohm Full Ti aka. "*Chief*" is one of the drivers that unlike other high impedance drivers does not have good stock tuning. I also make a huge mistake by adding bass port in my initial mod (with orange foams). The bass of this driver is a bit overemphasized, but the biggest problem are actually the mids.
This is the scheme of the mod and last try of this mod with MX500 shell. @subwoof3r has similar solution here.
My final mode looks like this. Shells for this mod (silver)




As you see, I removed the rear vent screen and add memory foam to reduce cavity size. When I'm happy with the tuning I'll return to the screen.
This is current measurement.



Also, I create this EQ compensation file. Still WIP.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 16, 2021)

captione said:


> You could always drill a vent in the shell to increase the bass/warmth, but I also think that it has enough bass to satisfy, standard tuning wise. If you drill the hole make sure it's a part of the shell that's not covered by your ear.


It's not a good idea for this driver if you're looking balanced sound


----------



## Maceinspace (Jan 16, 2021)

furyossa said:


> 64ohm Full Ti aka. "*Chief*" is one of the drivers that unlike other high impedance drivers does not have good stock tuning. I also make a huge mistake by adding bass port in my initial mod (with orange foams). The bass of this driver is a bit overemphasized, but the biggest problem are actually the mids.
> This is the scheme of the mod and last try of this mod with MX500 shell. @subwoof3r has similar solution here.
> My final mode looks like this. Shells for this mod (silver)
> 
> ...



I thought your username looked familiar! I saw your post about the rear bass vent mod a couple months back. I gave it a try on my 32ohm Ti drivers and I enjoy the sound sig more now, thanks man. I used a 1mm eyelet in place of the rivet and it worked quite well.

Reduced cavity size via memory foam brought back some of the mids for you, is that right? I may try this with cotton balls. I have an open back metal shell shipping fron nsc so will experiment with the cavity size of this one as well. Could you tell me how damping affects the sound sig?


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> It's not a good idea for this driver if you're looking balanced sound


Yeah, that's why I prefer it without any tweaking. Just left it with only a standard foam horseshoe.


----------



## furyossa

Maceinspace said:


> I thought your username looked familiar! I saw your post about the rear bass vent mod a couple months back. I gave it a try on my 32ohm Ti drivers and I enjoy the sound sig more now, thanks man. I used a 1mm eyelet in place of the rivet and it worked quite well.


I have already written about the advantages of metal shells, but like everything else, they have their drawbacks.
PROS: 
- low resonance
- greater durability
- easy to tune (especially those with one rear vent)
- ergonomics
- mmcx support
- look
CONS:
- most of these have non MX500 or PK "lip" diameter to hold the same drivers (require glue or double-side duct tape)
- without proper tuning can produce "hollow" sound
- can create condensation in cold weather
- look 


Maceinspace said:


> Reduced cavity size via memory foam brought back some of the mids for you, is that right? I may try this with cotton balls. I have an open back metal shell shipping fron nsc so will experiment with the cavity size of this one as well. Could you tell me how damping affects the sound sig?


Yes, by stuffing cavity for space reduction affect the mids but also other frequencies, it depends on of type of material that you plan to use.
I use memory foam as because it has good absorbent properties. In this case reduces "hollowness" of the sound and push sightly mids forward. As with speakers, these absorbent materials can reduce unnecessary treble energy from rear wave.
You will still have a spacious sound, but if U use "hard absorbent" (impermeable materials) then sound will become more intimate (narrow sounstage).
Now you have also cases when you can play with diffusers (small pieces of plastic, metal, wood) which can break and reflect rear wave in different directions. 
The result is very unpredictable, especially for such a small space inside shell, and requires a lot of testing. This method is used in room treatment and also with some headphones
This post shows interesting solution by Sony. The goal here is to reflect the sound so that the return wave does not hit the back of the driver and create an undesirable vibration. They use plastic grille construction (diffuser) and fabric (absorber)
Take a look another solution by Focal (here you can read about their technology)


----------



## captione

Speaking of damping, you could also use the center foam of a horseshoe to fill up the space behind the MX500 driver. 
I personally think you could play with the resonance when it comes to the wooden ones, especially with very v-shaped drivers like the Ty-Hi Z 32ohms which I modded with those sandalwood shells (not the glossy ones). 

So what I did was remove the damping, puncture the center vent of the driver and put in some porous tape and voila! The mids are back, mid-bass performance got insane, sibilance got nerfed. 
Still gonna work out some things though, I prefer playing around with prebuilt ones because I have a point of reference and how I want it to sound.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 16, 2021)

captione said:


> Speaking of damping, you could also use the center foam of a horseshoe to fill up the space behind the MX500 driver.
> I personally think you could play with the resonance when it comes to the wooden ones, especially with very v-shaped drivers like the Ty-Hi Z 32ohms which I modded with those sandalwood shells (not the glossy ones).
> 
> So what I did was remove the damping, puncture the center vent of the driver and put in some porous tape and voila! The mids are back, mid-bass performance got insane, sibilance got nerfed.
> Still gonna work out some things though, I prefer playing around with prebuilt ones because I have a point of reference and how I want it to sound.


Post some image of your progress 
I play with damping for this PK's a few years ago. EVA foam is very nice material for that. I shaped it a bit to be ribbed to break the rear wave at the same time and mitigated the impact.
BTW...These shells are to blame for destroying the EMX500 drivers 




For another solution I was Inspired by Focal Stellia cans and wall panel sound diffuser.  I cut small cubes of EVA foam and glued them inside the Tingo shell


----------



## furyossa

The most important thing with any material that you plan to put inside the shell is that it does not produce additional sound during the impact of the sound wave.
That's why I avoid using any kind of paper or aluminum foil. You mentioned wooden shells. The resonance that occurs in them can sometimes create a very pleasant effect 
with some drivers. Gives a very mild warmth to the sound.


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> Post some image of your progress
> I play with damping for this PK's a few years ago. EVA foam is very nice material for that. I shaped it a bit to be ribbed to break the rear wave at the same time and mitigated the impact.
> BTW...These shells are to blame for destroying the EMX500 drivers
> 
> ...





furyossa said:


> The most important thing with any material that you plan to put inside the shell is that it does not produce additional sound during the impact of the sound wave.
> That's why I avoid using any kind of paper or aluminum foil. You mentioned wooden shells. The resonance that occurs in them can sometimes create a very pleasant effect
> with some drivers. Gives a very mild warmth to the sound.


Here's the pics! (still finding the pictures when I built it, I should document my tweakings more often 😅) 



Yup, you're completely right, it definitely gives a tasteful resonance that gives it warmth, and the Ty-Hi Z 32ohms was a perfect candidate. 
I might play around with cotton damping once I get around it, because I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna get satisfied 😆


----------



## furyossa

I think the drivers with fast bass and pronounced treble go well with the wooden shell. Ty-Hi Z 32ohms has similar characteristics? 
Cotton is too light and has a very thin thread Mop threads are a bit beefy. You can try it


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> I think the drivers with fast bass and pronounced treble go well with the wooden shell. Ty-Hi Z 32ohms has similar characteristics?
> Cotton is too light and has a very thin thread Mop threads are a bit beefy. You can try it


Oooh, I like the material idea for those. Might try them but I don't have that kind of threading. Maybe yarn will do? 

I can also use my extra centre foams on the horseshoe to damp the resonance a bit. Might have to play around with the frequency generator for a bit more time


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Oooh, I like the material idea for those. Might try them but I don't have that kind of threading. Maybe yarn will do?
> 
> I can also use my extra centre foams on the horseshoe to damp the resonance a bit. Might have to play around with the frequency generator for a bit more time


You can find MOP in any store where they sell cleaning products. At the back of the shell add first center foam and in front of it the mop thread.
I use a similar trick with EVA foam.


----------



## jeejack

subwoof3r said:


> As promised, here is how my current 64ohm Titanium mod is looking  :
> I'm doing a unique very little hole (0.6mm) like the picture shown after :
> 
> 
> ...


Bro you close the shell like this?


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Bro you close the shell like this?


It's not entirely closed. That bottom foam piece is lowered inwards (at the angle), does not stand vertically


----------



## rprodrigues

My 8-pack alongside my 19-21 (white shells).

The bery drivers are indeed good. However, I'm not that impressed by the 19-21.

Sometimes, I hear a 'click' when I press any of the buds against my ears. Is it ok to hear such a 'click'?


----------



## furyossa (Jan 18, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> My 8-pack alongside my 19-21 (white shells).
> 
> The bery drivers are indeed good. However, I'm not that impressed by the 19-21.
> 
> Sometimes, I hear a 'click' when I press any of the buds against my ears. Is it ok to hear such a 'click'?


I see you have new gems here. Nice man, the cable is beautiful   Which one is Bery? White one?
About clicks... did you check if the cover lay nicely. Sometimes it happens that the diaphragm is detached somewhere from the metal construction
This may sound funny but it happened to me once that the hair in the ear hitting the front cover non-stop and I had a crackle until I noticed what the problem was


----------



## rprodrigues

@furyossa 

The Bery is the black one.

I will double-check the cover placement.
By the way, should I glue the shells?


----------



## jeejack (Jan 19, 2021)

What cable ? It's beautiful. I like 19-21 red dot very much.


----------



## captione

rprodrigues said:


> @furyossa
> 
> The Bery is the black one.
> 
> ...



Two dabs of glue on the back lip of the shell will do. Don't need alot when you plan to fix it. Just make sure it doesn't stick to the drivers too much, only the faceplate lips. 

Make sure you don't forget something you need done when gluing in place, like putting additional damping, tuning foam, etc...


----------



## Themilkman46290

Just a bit of advice, e very careful when soldering the 19-21 drivers, seems the black tar/glue they use to secure the pcb isn't very strong, heat resistant, or simply not glue right, I had gotten them soldered, taken a couple pictures and started finished leaving feedback for them, and one simply falls apart as I closed the shell

This pic was just before closing

This next one is right after closing

I hadn't even started tuning and it broke, not a good sign.... 

In general sound wasn't bad, kind of v shaped, good bass and highs, mids are a little more relaxed 
Good warm, smooth sound
At least nsc is kind enough to send replacement for cost of shipping, i know once I soldered it they didn't need to, but they seem to be a very honest seller, never had issues with them. Once again the wait begins....


----------



## Themilkman46290

Has anyone found any new drivers? Besides the extremely overpriced 19-21 Bery or bio from chitty's? I have noticed they have some cool stuff, but there prices are simply terrible, they charge 30 something for the 130 6pack, it's double priced for no reason.


----------



## captione

Themilkman46290 said:


> Just a bit of advice, e very careful when soldering the 19-21 drivers, seems the black tar/glue they use to secure the pcb isn't very strong, heat resistant, or simply not glue right, I had gotten them soldered, taken a couple pictures and started finished leaving feedback for them, and one simply falls apart as I closed the shell
> This pic was just before closing
> 
> This next one is right after closing
> ...


Man, that sucks. I seem to notice that kind of epoxy used on the 19-21s I've collected for the past months which seems to be melted easily with the heat of the soldering iron, so I didn't take any chances and soldering them didn't took longer than 3 seconds. 

I've also noticed that the drivers distort in the bass region when driven by more than 70+ on the volume of my Meizu DAC. I know it's sensitive and I changed the faceplates but, they're notoriously hard to tinker with. Those Foster type drivers are really finicky, but their sound is worth it to me so I can tolerate a bit of its problems 😅


----------



## captione

Themilkman46290 said:


> Has anyone found any new drivers? Besides the extremely overpriced 19-21 Bery or bio from chitty's? I have noticed they have some cool stuff, but there prices are simply terrible, they charge 30 something for the 130 6pack, it's double priced for no reason.


Also, I've seen a shopee listing on a composite version of the 19-21 red dot, 5 usd here, more or less the same price when I bought the black dot, much more expensive than the pink dot though. 
The cone is beryllium coated. Basically there's two variants of the red dot now, being this and the pink dot. Gotta collect them all man.... 

Indonesian sellers have alot of strange and rare drivers, from Foster variants like these to weird Cresyn PKs and the famous Red Film ones.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> @furyossa
> 
> The Bery is the black one.
> 
> ...


@captione gave you great advice on glue.
I don’t practice gluing MX500 shells. I only use glue for some metal shells or double-sided adhesive tape in case I tune them


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Has anyone found any new drivers? Besides the extremely overpriced 19-21 Bery or bio from chitty's? I have noticed they have some cool stuff, but there prices are simply terrible, they charge 30 something for the 130 6pack, it's double priced for no reason.


I've been looking at the last two days to see if there's anything new, but when it comes to DIY drivers or new budget buds models,
there is literally nothing new as if time has stopped


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> What cable ? It's beautiful. I like 19-21 red dot very much.


I don't understand the question.


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> I don't understand the question.


I asked what cable rprodriguez used for 8-pack and 19-21


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> I asked what cable rprodriguez used for 8-pack and 19-21


I think it's custom-made balanced cable


----------



## rprodrigues

jeejack said:


> What cable ? It's beautiful. I like 19-21 red dot very much.



I've assembled it using  this wire, connector and divider. It was braided using this method.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> I've assembled it using  this wire, connector and divider. It was braided using this method.


I like your method. You have become a true master
I'm wondering if you can knit me a sweater? May I send you the dimensions? Name the price


----------



## usergate

Themilkman46290 said:


> Has anyone found any new drivers?


I ordered these 300 ohms from the Ghxamp seller. It is written deliciously, it is a pity that it does not always correspond to reality. He said that their sound profile is similar to the 150 ohms I bought from him earlier and wrote about it here. The 150 ohm is very flat, clean and detailed, some of my favorites. In the same place, on your recommendation, I ordered 400 ohms. Now the package is at the transit airport (Warsaw). In about a week. 

Still out of pure curiosity, I looked at these drivers. I saw reviews on them only in some Indonesian store. But I didn't buy it).   Perhaps someone has already dealt with these drivers.


----------



## furyossa

usergate said:


> Still out of pure curiosity, I looked at these drivers. I saw reviews on them only in some Indonesian store. But I didn't buy it). Perhaps someone has already dealt with these drivers.


These are older driver models and have been on my wish list for a long time. I honestly don’t know what they sound but 2 pairs for $8 ...hmmm...I don’t think it’s a big risk to pull the trigger
Such offers with 2-5 pairs are great for DIY. It often happened to me with cheap drivers to buy one pair and then one driver is not work. And then the waiting starts again


----------



## captione (Jan 19, 2021)

usergate said:


> I ordered these 300 ohms from the Ghxamp seller. It is written deliciously, it is a pity that it does not always correspond to reality. He said that their sound profile is similar to the 150 ohms I bought from him earlier and wrote about it here. The 150 ohm is very flat, clean and detailed, some of my favorites. In the same place, on your recommendation, I ordered 400 ohms. Now the package is at the transit airport (Warsaw). In about a week.
> 
> Still out of pure curiosity, I looked at these drivers. I saw reviews on them only in some Indonesian store. But I didn't buy it).   Perhaps someone has already dealt with these drivers.


Those 300 ohms looks awfully similar to the 150ohms "bass" drivers with a full horseshoe foam. I'm pretty sure that the 300ohms I've seen sports the same layout of the drivers except it uses a white epoxy and a full horseshoe foam. There's also a "vocal" version of the 150ohms which uses a thin cotton horseshoe and also sports a white epoxy compared to the 150ohm "bass" version's blue epoxy, as the sellers would call it.


On the other old drivers, I heard it was made by Cresyn on other Indonesian sellers. Fengru (CKLewis) and Girftu (Jietu) sells em here on Shopee for 2 pairs at 5 bucks. Pretty bad sound ootb, needs more tinkering as far as seeing my local audio discussion group's impressions about it. They're notoriously easy to break too (that's why they sell it as two pairs). They're cheap though, so there's that.


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Those 300 ohms looks awfully similar to the 150ohms "bass" drivers with a full horseshoe foam. I'm pretty sure that the 300ohms I've seen sports the same layout of the drivers except it uses a white epoxy and a full horseshoe foam. There's also a "vocal" version of the 150ohms which uses a thin cotton horseshoe and also sports a white epoxy compared to the 150ohm "bass" version's blue epoxy, as the sellers would call it.
> 
> 
> On the other old drivers, I heard it was made by Cresyn on other Indonesian sellers. Fengru (CKLewis) and Girftu (Jietu) sells em here on Shopee for 2 pairs at 5 bucks. Pretty bad sound ootb, needs more tinkering as far as seeing my local audio discussion group's impressions about it. They're notoriously easy to break too (that's why they sell it as two pairs). They're cheap though, so there's that.


For DIY practice and experimentation, why not? Also, they are high impedance models for $2 per piece


----------



## rprodrigues (Jan 20, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I like your method. You have become a true master
> I'm wondering if you can knit me a sweater? May I send you the dimensions? Name the price







usergate said:


> .
> ... The 150 ohm is very flat, clean and detailed, some of my favorites...




Could you share the link for the 150 ohm drivers?


_________________________________________

@All

This is the  driver of the k300 sold by Nicehck. Where I could find them?


----------



## Maceinspace

Is the pk1 150ohm "red film" still available on aliX? I've been searching around but it looks like everyone is sold out. I spoke to a couple sellers and they don't know when or if they'll have it again. Truly dark days indeed.


----------



## rprodrigues (Jan 19, 2021)

Maceinspace said:


> Is the pk1 150ohm "red film" still available on aliX? I've been searching around but it looks like everyone is sold out. I spoke to a couple sellers and they don't know when or if they'll have it again. Truly dark days indeed.



Take a look here.

I've ordered an assembled set from this link (through superbuy.com).


----------



## assassin10000

My DIY SR2 16Ω drivers had a bad driver right from the start, too much difference in sound signature. Tried tuning them with no luck. This is probably why I wasn't a fan of them.






If they were both good I probably would have liked them a fair amount.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> My DIY SR2 16Ω drivers had a bad driver right from the start, too much difference in sound signature. Tried tuning them with no luck. This is probably why I wasn't a fan of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm...This is a very serious deviation. Treble practically doesn't exist on the left channel.  
I have PK2 in DOCOMO shell, I guess they're different PK2 and SR2?


----------



## Maceinspace

rprodrigues said:


> Take a look here.
> 
> I've ordered an assembled set from this link (through superbuy.com).


Thanks for the info. I'd prefer not to ship via 3rd party but I might go this route if there's nothing else. It's too bad nsc doesn't sell them.


----------



## captione (Jan 20, 2021)

furyossa said:


> For DIY practice and experimentation, why not? Also, they are high impedance models for $2 per piece


Yeah, they're cheap for a high impedance driver. Good for experiments tbh. I might buy a pair someday and play around with it on MX500 shells!



assassin10000 said:


> My DIY SR2 16Ω drivers had a bad driver right from the start, too much difference in sound signature. Tried tuning them with no luck. This is probably why I wasn't a fan of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those drivers are the reason why I stayed away from 14.8mm builds. Now I know better, gonna build my proper first 14.8mm with the Qian39 shells as they're much easier to build on.


----------



## 730user

rprodrigues said:


> I've assembled it using  this wire, connector and divider. It was braided using this method.



Fine. I was just looking for a method to weave four wires. 

I received 19-20,000 with a red dot. Do I understand correctly that you should not put cotton or foam on the speakers on them? Only foam on the headphone case?


----------



## furyossa

730user said:


> Fine. I was just looking for a method to weave four wires.
> 
> I received 19-20,000 with a red dot. Do I understand correctly that you should not put cotton or foam on the speakers on them? Only foam on the headphone case?


19Hz-21kHz  You can use full horseshoe black foam, or you can cut it in two pieces and cover only side vents, same as I do here. If this not work for you then try to add white cotton on the back of the driver


----------



## 730user (Jan 20, 2021)

19-20,000 Black Dog. Yes, they are good speakers. They are not as good as 130, 400 ohms. But they play well from a simple smartphone.
PS. This is the best sound I've got for this money! Very good, but probably more bass is needed. But then the tonal balance will change ...


----------



## usergate (Jan 20, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> Could you share the link for the 150 ohm drivers?


I wrote about them earlier. 
Now they are on mmcx, not so ugly ).

But keep in mind that the smartphone does not "reveal" them, you need DAP or usb-DAC.


----------



## rprodrigues

730user said:


> I received 19-20,000 with a red dot.... Only foam on the headphone case?



That was what I did.


----------



## captione (Jan 20, 2021)

730user said:


> 19-20,000 Black Dog. Yes, they are good speakers. They are not as good as 130, 400 ohms. But they play well from a simple smartphone.
> PS. This is the best sound I've got for this money! Very good, but probably more bass is needed. But then the tonal balance will change ...


Welcome to the black dot club! Warm smooth signature and pain-in-the-ass driver problems awaits 😆

Despite the difficulty to mod them, their warm signature is amazing. Good for slow music, amazing timbre for the price.

Edit:
Speaking of those 19-21s, I'll finally complete my normal versions and its titanium variants (currently have green, pink and the black dot) . Red dot will be in my hands tomorrow and I'll be making a pair. I'll write a comparison/review post after a week of listening.


----------



## rprodrigues

Hi there, DIY Gurus...

Do you know if it is possible to mimic the k600 by means of the 600 Ohm bery driver?


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Hi there, DIY Gurus...
> 
> Do you know if it is possible to mimic the k600 by means of the 600 Ohm bery driver?


You mean K's K600? That model has a better extension (15Hz-35kHz) but I doubt if it's a beryllium-coated driver.
By using EQ it is certainly possible to some extent to match the sound, otherwise I don’t know.


----------



## cappuchino

To our DIY-ers, how does shell material affect sound? Particularly MX500 shells (clear vs. solid)...


----------



## Maceinspace

sub30 said:


> To our DIY-ers, how does shell material affect sound? Particularly MX500 shells (clear vs. solid)...


I've been wondering this same question! I hear clear plastic is often inferior to opaque but am not sure why. Would love to hear someones input on this.


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> To our DIY-ers, how does shell material affect sound? Particularly MX500 shells (clear vs. solid)...





Maceinspace said:


> I've been wondering this same question! I hear clear plastic is often inferior to opaque but am not sure why. Would love to hear someones input on this.


The clear version uses cheaper plastic than black, so it is more prone to resonance.


----------



## cappuchino

furyossa said:


> The clear version uses cheaper plastic than black, so it is more prone to resonance.


May you please explain resonance and how it affects sound produced like I'm five? I've never delved in the technical stuff.


----------



## furyossa

sub30 said:


> May you please explain resonance and how it affects sound produced like I'm five? I've never delved in the technical stuff.


Some metals like brass for example can minimize unwanted resonances and vibrations, in this way it is obtained clearer overall sound with greater resolution and natural detail.
You can find more info on this forum. Also there are more interesting stuff here related to headphones, but certain things also apply to earbuds


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Jan 21, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> Hi there, DIY Gurus...
> 
> Do you know if it is possible to mimic the k600 by means of the 600 Ohm bery driver?


I had bought them, the k600 has good highs, the 600ohm Bery rolls off sharply at around 14-15 kHz, even with an amp.

In general, if you like highs, skip the 600, it's an expensive driver, that is only good in factory tuning (y6 paper) in an mx500 shell.

The 500ohm graphene maybe a better option, has much better highs and sub bass then the 600ohm


----------



## Themilkman46290

sub30 said:


> May you please explain resonance and how it affects sound produced like I'm five? I've never delved in the technical stuff.


Sound bounces off of different materials, reflecting sound waves create resonances, 
Sometimes good, most times bad, can make sound peaky, but if done right, spacious, 
I use cotton bandage tape, cut into small peices, place them inside shell


----------



## cappuchino (Jan 21, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Sound bounces off of different materials, reflecting sound waves create resonances,
> Sometimes good, most times bad, can make sound peaky, but if done right, spacious,
> I use cotton bandage tape, cut into small peices, place them inside shell


Interesting. I've got a KB Ear Stellar coming in a few days (white, mic) and have bought previously a K's Nameless. That was why I was curious with how shells affected sound. There was also a review of the TC200, silver vs. transparent R & B in FB in which they said that the silver was better in every way, in that the transparent had poorer dynamics and were noticeably brighter.


----------



## Themilkman46290

sub30 said:


> Interesting. I've got a KB Ear Stellar coming in a few days (white, mic) and have bought previously a K's Nameless. That was why I was curious with how shells affected sound. There was also a review of the TC200, silver vs. transparent R & B in FB in which they said that the silver was better in every way, in that the transparent lost dynamics and were noticeably brighter.


Shells make a huge difference, my k's samsara, had a 3 mm cable opening in the shell and slightly bigger shell cavity 
Although they looked the same as most mx500 shells


----------



## cappuchino

furyossa said:


> Some metals like brass for example can minimize unwanted resonances and vibrations, in this way it is obtained clearer overall sound with greater resolution and natural detail.
> You can find more info on this forum. Also there are more interesting stuff here related to headphones, but certain things also apply to earbuds


Thanks! That forum you suggested is definitely jampacked with information. Starting to read the first few pages. Interesting, to say the least.


----------



## rprodrigues

Themilkman46290 said:


> I had bought them, the k600 has good highs, the 600ohm Bery rolls off sharply at around 14-15 kHz, even with an amp.
> 
> In general, if you like highs, skip the 600, it's an expensive driver, that is only good in factory tuning (y6 paper) in an mx500 shell.
> 
> The 500ohm graphene maybe a better option, has much better highs and sub bass then the 600ohm



Do you think that either the 500 or the 600 diy drivers have a close sound signature regarding the k600?

Where did you get your k600?


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Do you think that either the 500 or the 600 diy drivers have a close sound signature regarding the k600?
> 
> Where did you get your k600?


I think the K600 has been discontinued. Now for the first time I see that there is also a 500ohm version


----------



## jeejack (Jan 21, 2021)

What DAC/Amp do you have guys?
I have BTR5, Sonata HD pro and Fiio Q3.
It is enough for 300 to 600 ohms earbuds ?


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> What DAC/Amp do you have guys?
> I have BTR5, Sonata HD pro and Fiio Q3.
> It is enough for 300 to 600 ohms earbuds ?


Maybe the Sonata will struggle a bit with 600ohm but the other two  will work fine


----------



## Themilkman46290

rprodrigues said:


> Do you think that either the 500 or the 600 diy drivers have a close sound signature regarding the k600?
> 
> Where did you get your k600?


Had and sold a couple years ago, can't remember where I bought it, maybe nicehck or one of the unspoken stores that rhymes with Foo sleazy


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> Maybe the Sonata will struggle a bit with 600ohm but the other two  will work fine


I didn't think BTR5 could drive them Thank you !


----------



## Themilkman46290

rprodrigues said:


> Do you think that either the 500 or the 600 diy drivers have a close sound signature regarding the k600?
> 
> Where did you get your k600?


None of the drivers I have bought have a similar sound, sadly. 
But I haven't listened to them in some time, I can say that the 400ohm and 130ohm get on a similar sound quality, I feel they are so go that I rarely feel like buying anything brand name anymore


----------



## Themilkman46290

Received my drivers, the 19-21 pink dot are really great, too bad they don't fit the mx500 shell, the  red dot is still burning in

The 120ohm 14.8mm Bery I am still tuning, not bad, but not awesome yet.....

But I am enjoying playing with the hole in the rear of the driver, removing the filter tamed the mid bass a bit, but gets weird in the mids


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Received my drivers, the 19-21 pink dot are really great, too bad they don't fit the mx500 shell, the  red dot is still burning in
> 
> The 120ohm 14.8mm Bery I am still tuning, not bad, but not awesome yet.....
> 
> But I am enjoying playing with the hole in the rear of the driver, removing the filter tamed the mid bass a bit, but gets weird in the mids


That kind of drivers (with center vent) are definitely tuned differently compared to newer models.
Such drivers have often been used on older models that have this type of shell. 





The picture shows that the size of the shell cavity is very small. With a standard driver (with no central vent) the sound would be congested. 
Anyway... With this earphone design, the sound is quite spacious and the bass is very well-defined. They use 13.5mm driver with center vent


----------



## captione

Just built the 19-21 red dot (right side) and I have to say, it's not as dynamic as the pink dot variant, but the titanium variants are sensitive so it's expected. I'll probably change my impressions once I give my full comparisons.

It's really good for chill music sessions though! I'm also surprised that the green dot (left side) is more treble heavy than the red dot, seeing how my impressions on its titanium versions were.


----------



## Themilkman46290

If any of you guys have a pair of monk light 120ohm..... 

They sat in my box of broken stuff (cable went bad about 2 years back) I never liked the tuning but they came free. 

So on my last order I had gotten extra 14.8mm pk shells with covers from nsc, so while I was waiting for my 120ohm Bery to burn in I decided to dig out those monk lights, carefully transplanted the drivers to the pk style covers. 

Spent hours trying to tune it, got really good results, so far better then the berylliums. 

Slightly more sub bass with fairly good highs. 

Very surprised

Also noticed there still selling them, for $20 ...


----------



## coflaes

Themilkman46290 said:


> Had and sold a couple years ago, can't remember where I bought it, maybe nicehck or one of the unspoken stores that rhymes with Foo sleazy


Hi,  Could you tell me step by step how you removed the driver without damaging it and then transfer it to a new shell?  and with what did you join them?  thank u


----------



## Themilkman46290

coflaes said:


> Hi,  Could you tell me step by step how you removed the driver without damaging it and then transfer it to a new shell?  and with what did you join them?  thank u


I didn't, I never said I did, I said I had them, then sold them

I did recable the samsara's (similar build, slightly better) just gently pulled apart drivers, un soldered, then changed cable, soldered, that's it

Don't go above 350° move as quickly as possible, use Flux, tin the cable leads, then place cable on the solder pad, add solder to your iron, touch it to the solder pad and tinned wire, it shouldn't take longer then a second

If you are new to this, buy something for practice first


----------



## rprodrigues (Jan 26, 2021)

Dear DIY fellows,

Is there any safe way to open a glued shell?  

I've tried to open one of my glued sets by means of a heater but I ended up with two melted shells (my only set of 14.8mm 150 ohm red film ).

Thank you


----------



## robar

rprodrigues said:


> Dear DIY fellows,
> 
> Is there any safe way to open a glued shell?
> 
> ...


With something like this and maybe very carefully heating with hairdryer. II usually put the thin nozzle on it to have better control over where the heat goes. Try to find the spot where the shell has a rectangular cut on the edge (if it has any) and open there. Usually this works, but sometimes the glue is so hard that the plastic simply breaks apart
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32844850846.html


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Dear DIY fellows,
> 
> Is there any safe way to open a glued shell?
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear that. Why 14.8mm "red film" 
Last time when I try to detach the driver I putted shells in a plastic bag and drown in hot water.
Another time I wrap up shell in aluminum foil and hit up with lighter. For this method you need to be very careful.
Both ways seem very primitive but in 80% of cases they work, the other 5% is destroyed and 15% impossible to disassemble (damn glue)


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> With something like this and maybe very carefully heating with hairdryer. II usually put the thin nozzle on it to have better control over where the heat goes. Try to find the spot where the shell has a rectangular cut on the edge (if it has any) and open there. Usually this works, but sometimes the glue is so hard that the plastic simply breaks apart
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32844850846.html


Ooooo...man. Where are you, long time no see?


----------



## captione

rprodrigues said:


> Dear DIY fellows,
> 
> Is there any safe way to open a glued shell?
> 
> ...



Hair dryer works for me. Heat up the sides of the faceplates for 5-8 seconds on high - hot mode (the hottest mode that your particular hair drier has, if you use a heat gun then lower it a bit), pry open a bit, then repeat the same thing until you could visually see the lips that opens it and then you could pry it slowly until it opens.


----------



## kakaworu

I am so surprised that membrane in the drivers are able to take that much heat.


----------



## 730user

Excessive heat can be dangerous. I think it needs to be heated, but not too much. I use blades from disassembled disposable razors. You need to be careful where the speaker wire is! Do not use the blade there.


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> Ooooo...man. Where are you, long time no see?


I'm okay thanks.  Not much news about earbuds, but I've received both the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro and the Fiio uBTR this week. I've just started to test them so it's early for detailed impressions but I'm very satisfied with them so far, both met my expectations and work well without any trouble. 

Maybe the only worthwhile thing to share is that I experienced once again the importance of power output. As you may know, the Sonata HD Pro adjust the gain automatically when a device is connected, but the high gain mode can be "forced" by plugging an empty extension cord first. This way I could test the sound in auto vs high gain mode and with higher impedance gear the difference is significant. The Faaeal Rosemary for example is pretty hard to drive and it sounds dark and soft without proper amping, regardless of the actual listening volume. With auto gain, it showed the same symptoms as with my other not powerful sources, but when I used the extension cord trick it came alive, and sounded punchy and U shaped as it should be.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 27, 2021)

robar said:


> Not much news about earbuds


Who said that? 



4 AIWA's , 2 Philips and AKG. Vintage rare gems.
I got them yesterday, still testing. They are in excellent condition, literally unused and they need a bit of break-in.
The Aiwa is really something special compared to Philips and AKG. Two models has asymmetrical cables that I don't like,
so I'm thinking of replacing cables.
There are 2 more models I didn't take because they have a plug (3.5mm + some kind of USB like) specially designed for their Walkman. Maybe I'll take that in the end.
I met some guy who has been collecting headphones since '80 and he has around 200 models. Probably not all in ideal condition but...and you already know what I'm thinking


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> Who said that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice!
I have an earbud with very similar shell to the second from left, it was a mono bud bundled with my guitar tuner  Maybe you remember that I opened it up and could put on 15mm covers on it (like B40 or some steel mesh 14.8mm variants) I guess it's a classic shell design that was copied a lot in various quality, like the mx500.

Btw I'm trying out bluetooth audio on my windows the first time and while it works fine, I'm unable to find any info about what codec is used or anything like that. With my android phones, I can check it via developer options, I can even switch between different codecs on the fly. Is there anything similar on windows? I just want to make sure it uses apt-x and not sbc.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 27, 2021)

robar said:


> Nice!
> I have an earbud with very similar shell to the second from left, it was a mono bud bundled with my guitar tuner  Maybe you remember that I opened it up and could put on 15mm covers on it (like B40 or some steel mesh 14.8mm variants) I guess it's a classic shell design that was copied a lot in various quality, like the mx500.
> 
> Btw I'm trying out bluetooth audio on my windows the first time and while it works fine, I'm unable to find any info about what codec is used or anything like that. With my android phones, I can check it via developer options, I can even switch between different codecs on the fly. Is there anything similar on windows? I just want to make sure it uses apt-x and not sbc.


Your PC uses Intel or AMD processor and not Qualcomm Snapdragon 
Unfortunately, there are no such drivers for Windows and Mac


----------



## Maceinspace

Alright, I've got a basic question for you all. Just got these red dot 32 ohm drivers but I'm not sure which side is positive. I know that it normally is on the side with the dot but these are on the opposite side compared to my other earbud drivers. 

So this doesn't happen the future, could someone tell me how to do this with a multimeter? I know how to check impedance and continuity but not this lol. Here is a pic of the drivers for reference.


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> Your PC uses Intel or AMD processor and not Qualcomm Snapdragon
> Unfortunately, there are no such drivers for Windows and Mac


I use an usb dongle that supports aptx and many intel notebook wireless chipsets support it also. As far as I know, windows should have native aptx support without any additional driver, it just doesn't display the current codec anywhere. But the latency is very good, I could even play a bit Battlefront 2 without any distracting delay, maybe there is a very small amount but its better than I expected, so maybe aptx already works



Maceinspace said:


> Alright, I've got a basic question for you all. Just got these red dot 32 ohm drivers but I'm not sure which side is positive. I know that it normally is on the side with the dot but these are on the opposite side compared to my other earbud drivers.
> 
> So this doesn't happen the future, could someone tell me how to do this with a multimeter? I know how to check impedance and continuity but not this lol. Here is a pic of the drivers for reference.


As far as I know, it shouldn't matter which is positive, the point is to match the two sides


----------



## Maceinspace

robar said:


> As far as I know, it shouldn't matter which is positive, the point is to match the two sides



Interesting, so as long as I'm consistent with which side is ground/positive then it's okay? Well that's easy 😁. Thanks for the info.


----------



## captione

Long time, no see @robar! 
I actually just completed our favourite 19-21 drivers and its Titanium variants. I had to do some eliminating because those titanium variants are sensitive af and distorts with more power.


----------



## dhruvmeena96

Actually
Guys

You can measure earbuds on 711 coupler + ear model


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Jan 28, 2021)

Been enjoying these 19-21 pink dots, really rumbly bass, decent treble, recently grabbed a dx120, so now I will need to balance out a series of buds

The 130ohm 6pack sounded really good in wooden shells(until I broke them)

You guys were not wrong about these 19-21 drivers, I think they are definitely the best low impedance drivers, hands down!

I also re tuned the 64ohm composite, and these things are sub bass monsters, awesome for movies and bassheads


----------



## buzzyman

furyossa said:


> Who said that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Congratulations on your new treasure).  Can you share your impressions of aiwa in the photo?


----------



## grooveriders

I have a question regarding the pk1 150ohm red film drivers. Seller seemes to have 4 options for the driver. 1. 2 purple dot
2.purple and orange dot 3.orange dot and 4 no colour dot. Doesn anyone know which one is the original pk1? or what are the differences (or anyone who can translate the chinese)?


----------



## furyossa

buzzyman said:


> Congratulations on your new treasure).  Can you share your impressions of aiwa in the photo?


I will share my impressions for each model separately on Earbuds Roundup thread as soon as the break-in is over. 
If I decide to re-cable one of these I will post some photos of internals here.

The model you mentioned is the simplest of all 4 pairs in terms of appearance and construction, but it has the best ergonomics and sound balance. It's a model
 AIWA HP-V051 Super Bass aka Dream Bass (1996-1998)
Driver diameter: 15mm ; Impedance: 16Ω ; Sensitivity: 102dB/mW ; Frequency Response: 10Hz-25kHz ; Max Power Input: 40mW 
I am also impressed by how pleasant the plastic shells are. The truth is what they say that in that period they did not use cheap parts and materials.


----------



## buzzyman

furyossa said:


> I will share my impressions for each model separately on Earbuds Roundup thread as soon as the break-in is over.
> If I decide to re-cable one of these I will post some photos of internals here.
> 
> The model you mentioned is the simplest of all 4 pairs in terms of appearance and construction, but it has the best ergonomics and sound balance. It's a model
> ...


I owned the HP-V051 about 20 years ago.  I wonder what emotions they can evoke now.  I will be waiting for your feedback.  Thank you!)


----------



## furyossa (Jan 28, 2021)

grooveriders said:


> I have a question regarding the pk1 150ohm red film drivers. Seller seemes to have 4 options for the driver. 1. 2 purple dot
> 2.purple and orange dot 3.orange dot and 4 no colour dot. Doesn anyone know which one is the original pk1? or what are the differences (or anyone who can translate the chinese)?


This is the previous link on Ali (dead link). All driver have different marks.
It probably means nothing. Just ask for 150ohm "red film" when you order it


----------



## furyossa (Jan 28, 2021)

buzzyman said:


> I owned the HP-V051 about 20 years ago.  I wonder what emotions they can evoke now.  I will be waiting for your feedback.  Thank you!)


From Left to Right from image above : AIWAs ( HP-V041 ;  HP-V061 ;  HP-V151 ; HP-V051 ) , for Philips I still not have any info and last model is AKG Y16A

Do you have any vintage model except HP-V051? HP-V99


----------



## buzzyman

furyossa said:


> From Left to Right from image above : AIWAs ( HP-V041 ;  HP-V061 ;  HP-V151 ; HP-V051 ) , for Philips I still not have any info and last model is AKG Y16A
> 
> Do you have any vintage model except HP-V051? HP-V99


My hp-v051 are long lost, I want to find one now.  I bought a sony mdr-e 434 a couple of days ago and they sound amazing.  Very airy sound, good detail at high frequencies.  The only thing sometimes there is not enough bass, I would like a little more (no, I'm not basshead)).  This is a small masterpiece).


----------



## furyossa (Jan 29, 2021)

buzzyman said:


> My hp-v051 are long lost, I want to find one now.  I bought a sony mdr-e 434 a couple of days ago and they sound amazing.  Very airy sound, good detail at high frequencies.  The only thing sometimes there is not enough bass, I would like a little more (no, I'm not basshead)).  This is a small masterpiece).


Sorry I'm late. I was on a night hunt for earbuds. I "shot" a few of them but first thing first...
Man I'm a little jealous now  You have a really beautiful and rare pair. I like how Sony packed its models in "powder box" like case.
They use on few buds similar side entrance for the cable. Is there any particular reason for that? My guess is that they wanted to have a "free" vent that has no point of contact with the cable.  
In general, the only thing I don't like about these vintage buds is the low impedance (16Ω-18Ω) and thin cable which is asymmetric in some models.
It's really sad to disassemble these just to replace the cable.

Anyway to get back to today’s catch



If you find out model names and spec. of these AIWA's please let me know. The only thing I know so far: the model on the left is with new Sony branded AIWA logo
and the right "goldy" was taken from the Walkman HP-RC750. This plug looks scary, I need to change the cable
Also, I took two more spare AIWA HP-V041, one for modding and one for the gift. BTW this model has a bit thicker and softer cable than the rest of the lineup.
And lastly one broken pair of Superlux HD381F for research purposes 
I will try to fix them if it is not something serious and post some progress


----------



## buzzyman

furyossa said:


> Sorry I'm late. I was on a night hunt for earbuds. I "shot" a few of them but first thing first...
> Man I'm a little jealous now  You have a really beautiful and rare pair. I like how Sony packed its models in "powder box" like case.
> They use on few buds similar side entrance for the cable. Is there any particular reason for that? My guess is that they wanted to have a "free" vent that has no point of contact with the cable.
> In general, the only thing I don't like about these vintage buds is the low impedance (16Ω-18Ω) and thin cable which is asymmetric in some models.
> ...


Congratulations on your successful hunt.  The right pair is similar to the HP-D1.


----------



## furyossa

buzzyman said:


> Congratulations on your successful hunt.  The right pair is similar to the HP-D1.


I just talked to @WoodyLuvr. Those Aiwa earbuds are part of the V141 Series called "Gold Small Holes"  but because they used with the walkman devices they also have different model number HP-RC750 and  HP-RC850.
I opened them very easily, and I have this 8-core cable from which I will make two cables, one for this model and the other for HP-V151 (3rd model on previous photo)


----------



## Themilkman46290

Picking up the sub bass and pushing the mids back a bit made the 120ohm 14.8mm fairly fun, a bit more open
Used a 10:1 foam on yolk, carefully removed glue in a section and placed it on top of the bass vent on the yolk, 

Then I removed the filter behind the driver, it helped tame the mids and brought the bass up.
Then to further calm resonance I used cotton tabe and a black foam 7:1 on the shells 
I do wish the highs had been better


----------



## furyossa (Jan 29, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> I do wish the highs had been better


We all pray for that, a big drawback of most drivers
Did we mention this driver, I can't remember (Beryllium composite). As usual without specs. I assume this is the 32ohm version used in TMusic buds
It's time for new wires
For any graphene lovers    @Themilkman46290 Graphene-copper-silver hybrid earphone
Probably this cable use NiceHCK but assembled version is around $110
Another beautiful wire. These are 3 variant: only wire, cable with splitter and assembled version


----------



## furyossa

@Themilkman46290  what do you think about last cable. For this year anniversary? Or you go with graphene this time


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Jan 29, 2021)

furyossa said:


> We all pray for that, a big drawback of most drivers
> Did we mention this driver, I can't remember (Beryllium composite). As usual without specs. I assume this is the 32ohm version used in TMusic buds
> It's time for new wires
> For any graphene lovers    @Themilkman46290 Graphene-copper-silver hybrid earphone
> ...


Those 19-21 composite look nice, but I had very bad luck, so far, 3 drivers dead and only 2 survived, seems they are too fragile, they also don't really fit mx500 shells, they seem to be slightly more shallow, a wee bit less then 15.4mm wide
Had to sand the lip off the mx500 shells, but even then, I can't Close the shells or else they break the voice coil leads, I also noticed the leads are glued really tight to the ring the holds the diaphragm, so if you press hard to closed the shell, the ring seems to flex and breaks the leads
I don't know why they have done this, other drivers don't, guess it's some genius way to make us buy more

For now, though I know they sound good, I think I will pass.
Decided to invest in some closes back cans
Srh840 is looking good


----------



## furyossa (Jan 29, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Those 19-21 composite look nice, but I had very bad luck, so far, 3 drivers dead and only 2 survived, seems the are too fragile, they also don't really fit mx500 shells, the seem to be slightly more shallow, a wee bit less then 15.4mm wide
> Had to sand the lip off the mx500 shells, but even then, I can't Close the shells or els they break the voice coil leads, I also noticed the leads are glued really tight to the ring the holds the diaphragm, so it you press hard to closed the shell, the ring seems to flex and breaks the leads
> I don't know why they have done this, other drivers don't, guess it's some genius way to make us buy more
> 
> ...


It's really strange. @robar didn't mention any of these faults. It's important to use a bit of elastic glue on the driver ring and not some superglue.
I broke a few drivers in the same way. You do all hard work and at the end when you need to attach cover on the shell coil leads break.
I am currently working on a design for "ear canal" coupler for iMM6 for 3D printing. I will share *.stl file if someone is interested in printing a model for themselves
I find some guy in my city who prints small miniatures. They look very clean and precise.
If he manages to print well this coupler then I will send him some shells which I modeled. I think it can print resin, that would be great for buds shell.
This is work in progress






In addition to this I plan to do 4-core cables for all vintage models because these stock cables are very bad.
I have left aside the modification of headphones for now. The Sennheiser HD25 Light that I bought recently, really sound ok, so it's not my priority to change anything for now.
Last time you mentioned that you have a GRADO model. You were planning to do some mod? I don't know about Shure I think they are tuned more for monitoring than for
casual listening. Is there a possibility to try them before buying?


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> @Themilkman46290  what do you think about last cable. For this year anniversary? Or you go with graphene this time


The wires look sexy, but, after these queyinfang thick wires, I realized it's a bit too thick for most shells, I've been drilling all my shells out for it. 
Thick wires don't fit the 14.8mm at all
But if I didn't allready purchase 20 meters worth of wire, I might buy it. 
Hell I might buy it later, I am sure the wife would like the colours


----------



## furyossa (Jan 29, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> The wires look sexy, but, after these queyinfang thick wires, I realized it's a bit too thick for most shells, I've been drilling all my shells out for it.
> Thick wires don't fit the 14.8mm at all
> But if I didn't allready purchase 20 meters worth of wire, I might buy it.
> Hell I might buy it later, I am sure the wife would like the colours


One reel of 8-core cable really pays off. I have left 6m of black and 1.5m of gold-black. Ten 4-core cables can be made from this


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> It's really strange. @robar didn't mention any of these faults. It's important to use a bit of elastic glue on the driver ring and not some superglue.
> I broke a few drivers in the same way. You do all hard work and at the end when you need to attach cover on the shell coil leads break.
> I am currently working on a design for "ear canal" coupler for iMM6 for 3D printing. I will share *.stl file if someone is interested in printing a model for themselves
> I find some guy in my city who prints small miniatures. They look very clean and precise.
> ...


No, but I have a buddy that has the 440 and the 940, both sound good, very neutral, kind of bass light, but hands down better the the m50x that I had saved up for, bought brand new, and hated. 
For anyone that says the m50x are neutral monitors.... Well I guess they don't have a clue what neutral is, they have muddy bass, and really peaky highs. 

I let them burn in, I had even bought an amp for them, then I sold them at a loss and bought those grados. They maybe bass light, but the highs and mids are bloody perfect. 
And if you glue some leather to the out side of there L pads, the bass picks up

Then I got the he4xx, and even though reviews say they are bass light and have shrill highs..... Well I don't know what they are smoking, the sub bass seems to extend better then the m50x and the highs are frry nice, not so sharp as those m50x
I lost all respect for audio technica

So I researched them, seems they got rid of some of there top engineers about 10-15 years ago, mainly to fucos more on marketing, so it's no wonder I haven't heard a good pair of them in years. 
But I am going to far off topic
The shure have similar build, but they have mids (something that AT has forgotten about) , and the highs are done properly
AKG has gon the same route, got bought out by Samsung, they have replaced some of there best with fragile plastic junk that although sounds great, looks as if it was built to last about 3 to 4 hours......


----------



## furyossa (Jan 29, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> No, but I have a buddy that has the 440 and the 940, both sound good, very neutral, kind of bass light, but hands down better the the m50x that I had saved up for, bought brand new, and hated.


Many people say that the M40 is better than the M50 for casual listening. The M60 also received positive reviews and is better made than the M40.
I don't know about AT bright highs which I can't stand but AKG is very famous with that. Even Y16A buds has highs which don't seem sharp but after half an hour of listening I got a headache. BTW the design of the buds and ergonomics are great. I got a used pair for $ 10 but I saw that their purchase price was $35 which is ridiculous. I don't think it's worth even $10 new
On the other hand AIWA deserves real respect, a very well-balanced sound, without any sharp tones, a couple of models have a little recessed mids and that’s it. Soundstage is average like every other buds. The shells are made of quality plastic. It is a pity that this company was shut down, who knows what models it would have today.


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Many people say that the M40 is better than the M50 for casual listening. The M60 also received positive reviews and is better made than the M40.
> I don't know about AT bright highs which I can't stand but AKG is very famous with that. Even Y16A buds has highs which don't seem sharp but after half an hour of listening I got a headache. BTW the design of the buds and ergonomics are great. I got a used pair for $ 10 but I saw that their purchase price was $35 which is ridiculous. I don't think it's worth even $10 new


Yeah, I tried the m40, they are better then the m50x as far as tuning, but I got clausterphobic.


----------



## Themilkman46290

Well, I am happy to say that the 120ohm monk light spc drivers are actually much better then the 120ohm bery
Maybe not in the bass but the highs are better
20 bucks isn't bad  in comparison to the 16 for the bery


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Well, I am happy to say that the 120ohm monk light spc drivers are actually much better then the 120ohm bery
> Maybe not in the bass but the highs are better
> 20 bucks isn't bad  in comparison to the 16 for the bery


At least 15.4mm Bery’s work pretty well


----------



## robar (Jan 29, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Those 19-21 composite look nice, but I had very bad luck, so far, 3 drivers dead and only 2 survived, seems they are too fragile, they also don't really fit mx500 shells, they seem to be slightly more shallow, a wee bit less then 15.4mm wide
> Had to sand the lip off the mx500 shells, but even then, I can't Close the shells or else they break the voice coil leads, I also noticed the leads are glued really tight to the ring the holds the diaphragm, so if you press hard to closed the shell, the ring seems to flex and breaks the leads
> I don't know why they have done this, other drivers don't, guess it's some genius way to make us buy more
> 
> ...


That's sad to hear, which 19-21 are you talking about? The titanium steel mesh or the regular mx500 cover variant. The titanium steel mesh 19-21 is NOT compatible with mx500 shells, even some sellers mention that and I also posted it here, If you talk about the regular mx500 cover drivers then I don't know what could be the problem, I put those in and out with many shell types multiple times and never had any problem.


----------



## earfanatic

Do you have links for recommended earphone cables for recalling? Preferably one with Y junction ready made to solder.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 30, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Do you have links for recommended earphone cables for recalling? Preferably one with Y junction ready made to solder.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15983594
and one recent post https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-16141018


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15983594
> and one recent post https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-16141018


Thank You! So, you buy an mmcx cable then cut off the mmcx plug, I get it. 😅


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> Thank You! So, you buy an mmcx cable then cut off the mmcx plug, I get it. 😅


You can do that, but also you have cables without connectors. Avoid 8-core cables for buds if you plan to solder on driver.
Here you can find cheaper cables (4-core) with or without connectors


----------



## irv003

aiwa hp-v061 sound so good.
i terminated mine to 4.4mm plug.


----------



## furyossa

They look beautiful. It's strange that there is the few different versions of HP-V061.
I have this model, with semi-transparent shell and silver backplate, also there is with black shell and gold backplate and your version


----------



## irv003

oh i got mine sealed in box together with hp-v151.


----------



## furyossa

irv003 said:


> oh i got mine sealed in box together with hp-v151.


Yup I got mine without box but in "not-ever-used" condition. I didn't expect that. 
Ah... the cable of HP-V151 is asymmetrical and thin. I will swap it with braided one. 
Also covers of the drivers on HP-V151 are loose. At least I'll be able to take them off easily


----------



## irv003

furyossa said:


> Yup I got mine without box but in "not-ever-used" condition. I didn't expect that.
> Ah... the cable of HP-V151 is asymmetrical and thin. I will swap it with braided one.
> Also covers of the drivers on HP-V151 are loose. At least I'll be able to take them off easily



i have an hp-v151 before, recabled it to silver alloy cable.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 31, 2021)

irv003 said:


> i have an hp-v151 before, recabled it to silver alloy cable.


That's the nice combo. I will go probably with gold-black wire to match the shells.
I'm still thinking about whether to go with a balance 2.5mm or 3.5mm SE plug.
Because I not a huge fan of 16ohm buds I often use these two impedance adapters and that's why I will skip 2.5mm plug.


----------



## irv003

browsing on my gallery, found a pic of one of the rares, a pink victor earbud. I recabled it to purple wires.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 31, 2021)

irv003 said:


> browsing on my gallery, found a pic of one of the rares, a pink victor earbud. I recabled it to purple wires.


JVC Victor?  
Something came to my mind, if you have or know some models that are not in this list, send the author (@WoodyLuvr) a PM in this format:
_*Year - name and model number (impedance).*_
There really are many more models missing there. The most difficult is to find the names for the Phillips vintage buds.
I own two pairs, and it's impossible to find any info about them





Edit: I added the link for the list above


----------



## irv003

furyossa said:


> JVC Victor?
> Something came to my mind, if you have or know some models that are not in this list, send the author (@WoodyLuvr) a PM in this format:
> _*Year - name and model number (impedance).*_
> There really are many more models missing there. The most difficult is to find the names for the Phillips vintage buds.
> ...


nice! saw the list. looks like missing some southeast asian buds.


----------



## furyossa

irv003 said:


> nice! saw the list. looks like missing some southeast asian buds.


There are many "hidden gems" for sure. Currently, MX500 models predominate, but we should not ignore other types.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Feb 1, 2021)

furyossa said:


> They look beautiful. It's strange that there is the few different versions of HP-V061.
> I have this model, with semi-transparent shell and silver backplate, also there is with black shell and gold backplate and your version


Aiwa HP-V061 was a high production run earbud and part of Aiwa's *"Main Series"* (HP-V041; HP-V051; HP-V061; HP-V064) that were mass produced and included with many of their portable players from 1995 until 2001 (maybe 2002). Even though the *"Main Series"* may be referred to and known as the *"HP-V061 Series" *it included four different models with the HP-V041 and HP-V051 models being produced from 1995 to 1997 (V041) and 1996-1998 (V051). All these models of the *"Main Series"* are known (or suspected) to have had a number of editions and versions with the HP-V061 model having the most by far.

It is generally accepted that there are three (3) main/major editions of the HP-V061 model... coming in various head and steam styles which of course has caused much confusion and disagreement amongst collectors. Some Japanese collectors will argue that there were four (4) or even five (5) editions of this particular model consisting of anywhere from one (1) to three (3) versions/variants per edition produced from 1999 to well into 2001/2 (this is hotly contested). Very complicated to say the least. Thus why many collectors have simplified it down to the following three (3) model editions:

The _"first edition"_ debuted in early 1999 and included two versions, the _"Gold Dot & Bar"_ and the _"Silver Dot & Bar"_, as Aiwa appeared to be trying to "piggy back" on the success that they had had with the earlier and highly regarded _"Gold"_ lines of the early to mid 1990s.
The _"second edition", _late 1999 to 2000/1 was a completely revamped design with a very large silver backplate and known as _"Large Silver"_... this particular edition with the protruding head is why the entire _*"HP-V061 series"*_ was eventually nicknamed the *"Wild Boar's Snout Series"* aka *"Pig's Mouth Series"*.
Then sometime in 2000/1 the _"third edition"_ was released in two versions the _"Silver Bar"_ and the _"Black Bar"_ with both versions coming in a semi-transparent shell case and they may have been produced well into 2002 (again there appears to be a lot of disagreement about this).
There is a lot of "conflicting" and "disagreed upon" information when it comes to the Aiwa HP-V061 but I think the above is probably a safe middle ground for us to stand on.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Aiwa HP-V061 was a high production run earbud and part of Aiwa's *"Main Series"* (HP-V041; HP-V051; HP-V061; HP-V064) that were mass produced and included with many of their portable players from 1995 until 2001 (maybe 2002). Even though the *"Main Series"* may be referred to and known as the *"HP-V061 Series" *it included four different models with the HP-V041 and HP-V051 models being produced from 1995 to 1997 (V041) and 1996-1998 (V051). All these models of the *"Main Series"* are known (or suspected) to have had a number of editions and versions with the HP-V061 model having the most by far.
> 
> It is generally accepted that there are three (3) main/major editions of the HP-V061 model... coming in various head and steam styles which of course has caused much confusion and disagreement amongst collectors. Some Japanese collectors will argue that there were four (4) or even five (5) editions of this particular model consisting of anywhere from one (1) to three (3) versions/variants per edition produced from 1999 to well into 2001/2 (this is hotly contested). Very complicated to say the least. Thus why many collectors have simplified it down to the following three (3) model editions:
> 
> ...


Wow! This is very valuable info. Thank man 
Now I'm starting to doubt you and your modesty. Why don't you say you worked for Aiwa. Seriously this information probably only exists in their archive
and only certain people have access to it ... and you are one of them


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Believe it or not my Aiwa knowledge is limited in comparison to what I know about vintage Sony Headphones 1980s!


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> Believe it or not my Aiwa knowledge is limited in comparison to what I know about vintage Sony Headphones 1980s!


Now when I think about it, I don't have a single pair of Sony in my collection. Hmmm.... 
Let me get first some Sony buds, and then we can talk about it. Of course not from that period. 

Yup. I find it... only Sony MDR-570 LB for now, it looks retro, but it's not so old model, right?


----------



## irv003

also got sharp with bigger drivers (16mm). i dont have any aidea of the model no., i recabled it.


----------



## furyossa

irv003 said:


> also got sharp with bigger drivers (16mm). i dont have any aidea of the model no., i recabled it.


The buds look unique I can't find any info about them. Are you tune them as well, or you just change the cable?


----------



## irv003

furyossa said:


> The buds look unique I can't find any info about them. Are you tune them as well, or you just change the cable?


tuned them to have better subbass.
cable used is copper w/ rhodium 2.5mm plug


----------



## coflaes

irv003 said:


> tuned them to have better subbass.
> cable used is copper w/ rhodium 2.5mm plug


How rhodium sounds?


----------



## irv003 (Feb 1, 2021)

coflaes said:


> How rhodium sounds?


this sharp having nice balance sound, could sound brighter to some source. so did tune it to a more warmer sound.

i find rhodium plug to give a little warmer tone.


----------



## furyossa

I reached 1K post (🍷🍾) and for that occasion I decided to post a few pictures of my favorite pair Superlux HD381. I already own whole set of 3 pairs: HD381 (black), HD381F (white), HD381B (gray)  and one spare black pair.
For some time now I have been thinking about opening a spare pair and investigating what is happening under the hood, but in the meantime I came across a damaged HD381F, which I'm presenting today.
BTW a brief description of this model can be found here.

NOTE: Ignore the current condition. This is a desperate attempt by the previous owner to fix this buds 
What is so special about this lineup? Well ...these buds use 13.5mm and as you can see in the picture the size of the shell cavity is very small.
From previous experience with the MX500 and such a small depth of shell, the sound is generally less spacious and closed, which is not the case with this model at all. What's more, the sound here is so open that it surpasses the IEMs and earbuds 
and can be directly compared to open-back headphones. Also, you can see a small hole on the underside  which is the only vent on the whole shell.
For me personally, this is the best tuned 13.5mm driver (16ohm) that I ever heard. All frequencies are fairly clearly defined, no sharp peaks and each of these models has its own specially tuned sound signature.




Comfort wise these buds are ultra light, the rubber ring improves comfort drastically and at the same time serves to hide the connection between cover and shell. The nozzle is very short and not cause any pressure or discomfort.
Also, it helps a lot with bass separation from mids. The reason why I don'y call it IEM is because openings on the lid that let sound like a classic earbud. They use some kind of textile as a filter.




The inside of the shell not use is simple, they added some kind of the rubber to block the sound to go in the back part of the shell. Of course, glue is inevitable 




And finally we see a bit different driver construction. than to what we are used to with 14.8mm and 15.4mm drivers
Side vents not exist but only huge center vent covered with some kin of the canvas. Obviously, drivers designed in this way do not require a large shell space to function properly.


----------



## furyossa

irv003 said:


> tuned them to have better subbass.


Can you share some fotos about that mod?


----------



## irv003

furyossa said:


> Can you share some fotos about that mod?


oh, buds not with me.


----------



## irv003

some of the pics ill post and already posted here are my past works. 
I am into DIY / making custom earbuds. 

here is a white docomo w/ silver back shell cover which i mod last year.
cable is litz spc w/ connoisseur gold plug.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 2, 2021)

irv003 said:


> some of the pics ill post and already posted here are my past works.
> I am into DIY / making custom earbuds.
> 
> here is a white docomo w/ silver back shell cover which i mod last year.
> cable is litz spc w/ connoisseur gold plug.


I see that. You use very nice parts and I've noticed that you pay a lot of attention to cables.
I assume you procure these parts locally?

I like Docomo shells. Foer me personaly this is one of the most comfortable shells 
and and I am very pleased with how PK1 "red film" and PK2 driver sound in them.
This is my PK1 150ohm "redfilm" with Furukawa cable


----------



## irv003

furyossa said:


> I see that. You use very nice parts and I've noticed that you pay a lot of attention to cables.
> I assume you procure these parts locally?


actually cable is part of what i want them to sound. its not really that i like premium stuffs. its just that docomo stock sound is warm to dark, installed spc to make them less warmer.

here is TY Hi-z 32 ohms version 2.
modded it with black OFC wire w/ ranko plugs.
basic build, better sound


----------



## furyossa

irv003 said:


> actually cable is part of what i want them to sound. its not really that i like premium stuffs. its just that docomo stock sound is warm to dark, installed spc to make them less warmer.
> 
> here is TY Hi-z 32 ohms version 2.
> modded it with black OFC wire w/ ranko plugs.
> basic build, better sound


Ranko plugs are really good. They require silicon "tail" because large opening on the back.Once I bought few copy of Ranko pluugs and half of hem broke. The isolation on pinouts was bad


----------



## irv003

furyossa said:


> Ranko plugs are really good. They require silicon "tail" because large opening on the back.Once I bought few copy of Ranko pluugs and half of hem broke. The isolation on pinouts was bad


yup theyre one of the most copied plugs in chifi. theyre good but also expensive compare to other brands


----------



## furyossa (Feb 2, 2021)

Yarbo plugs are also good. GY-35GS-L is really massive. Only 3.5mm. It will be nice to see Pentaconn in this form 









Also like this no-name twins (red & blue)


----------



## irv003

VE Asura 1 modded w/ red OFC cable w/ viablue plug


----------



## coflaes

Yarbo looks ultra cheap


----------



## furyossa

coflaes said:


> Yarbo looks ultra cheap


It's cheaper than Ranko but is not bad quality, also looks more attractive than Ranko


----------



## irv003

furyossa said:


> It's cheaper than Ranko but is not bad quality, also looks more attractive than Ranko


looks interesting.
where is it can be found? aliexpress?


----------



## furyossa

Golden plug is gone from Ali, I cn't find the link.
This is the blsck https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32236808365.html


----------



## irv003

who loves vido earbuds?
below is an mmcx white vido w/ hybrid cable and fifty-strings rhodium plug


----------



## irv003

the famous black docomo modded with copper cable


----------



## 730user

I got a lot of RCA. Yongsheng. 
 It is a subsidiary of Neutrick. The connectors were of decent quality. There are also jacks of this company.  
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4000...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_


----------



## earfanatic

Hello,
I have an Auglamour RX-1, I am looking for Your suggestions how to tune it.
This is a zinc alloy earbud. Two vents (2x2 small drills) are on the bottom around 5 and 7'o clock position.
I have opened it because one vent seemed to be blocked on one side, and found the cable insulation broken too.
I will either recable it or cut the cable sorter for quick repair.




As You can see the front is badly covered with glue, and the driver air holes are covered with a sticky, horseshoe shaped foil, which looks like silicon to me.
It definitely needs a cleanup.




I think this is a good earbud for further tuning, spacious shell, which I find attractive and comfortable.
The front pops back fairly well to the shell, allowing changes without glue.
What is your impression? What can I try? (I have no measuring equipment but my ears).


----------



## Maceinspace

So the 15.4mm 130ohm Bery driver is well regarded on here, but can it shine without an external amp? I want to gift some high quality buds to my dad and he only has an iPhone 10 and apple dongle. I planned on sending him a pair made with a 32 ohm red dot driver but I'm not satisfied with its sound, not yet at least.


----------



## furyossa

Maceinspace said:


> So the 15.4mm 130ohm Bery driver is well regarded on here, but can it shine without an external amp? I want to gift some high quality buds to my dad and he only has an iPhone 10 and apple dongle. I planned on sending him a pair made with a 32 ohm red dot driver but I'm not satisfied with its sound, not yet at least.


Nope. 130ohm or any above 64ohm drivers will shine only with audio devices like DAP's, DAC/AMP (portable or desktop)
LG (QuadDAC chip) "V" and some "G" series of smartphones can be the option


----------



## furyossa (Feb 3, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Hello,
> I have an Auglamour RX-1, I am looking for Your suggestions how to tune it.
> This is a zinc alloy earbud. Two vents (2x2 small drills) are on the bottom around 5 and 7'o clock position.
> I have opened it because one vent seemed to be blocked on one side, and found the cable insulation broken too.
> ...


Do you have spare black horseshoe filters?

If you do, then you can remove existing one and clean all excessive glue from driver and shell. Add new filter (black foam) and try like that. Also, this white cotton filter is good option.
If you don't, then punch two small holes with a needle (one on each side) on that existing thin filter. Don't remove the black filters on the shell. You can only punch one hole there.
You can also try to fill the inner cavity of the shell with a cotton, wool or mop fibers (1/3 of the inner volume)


----------



## coflaes

Maceinspace said:


> So the 15.4mm 130ohm Bery driver is well regarded on here, but can it shine without an external amp? I want to gift some high quality buds to my dad and he only has an iPhone 10 and apple dongle. I planned on sending him a pair made with a 32 ohm red dot driver but I'm not satisfied with its sound, not yet at least.


Why you didnt like the red dot driver sound?


----------



## Maceinspace

furyossa said:


> Nope. 130ohm or any above 64ohm drivers will shine only with audio devices like DAP's, DAC/AMP (portable or desktop)
> LG (QuadDAC chip) "V" and some "G" series of smartphones can be the option



Dang it. NSC store states the 130 ohm is playable straight from a phone... It seemed too good to be true but I had to ask lol. I guess I'll have to play around with the 32 ohm red dot more. 

Could you recommend a tuning setup to improve sound quality with the red dots? Seems like mids are the biggest issue I've been having with them. I've got thin black horseshoe foams on one pair and thick black foams on another, both have recessed mids. Not sure if I should switch the foam it to the shell and/or try something else. Decrease cavity size too?


----------



## Maceinspace

coflaes said:


> Why you didnt like the red dot driver sound?



They're not bad, just not as good as the titanium version or higher ohm drivers. Solid bass but bleeds into mids, less detailed sound, okay soundstage. It may just need more tuning, but tbh I'm not sure how to improve it.


----------



## irv003

i remember edifier h180 was one of the hardest to open the driver. have you tried them?

edifier h180 modded with hybrid cable


----------



## furyossa

Maceinspace said:


> Dang it. NSC store states the 130 ohm is playable straight from a phone... It seemed too good to be true but I had to ask lol. I guess I'll have to play around with the 32 ohm red dot more.
> 
> Could you recommend a tuning setup to improve sound quality with the red dots? Seems like mids are the biggest issue I've been having with them. I've got thin black horseshoe foams on one pair and thick black foams on another, both have recessed mids. Not sure if I should switch the foam it to the shell and/or try something else. Decrease cavity size too?


Yup. You can drive it with your phone but don't expect miracle. To create ideal conditions for this driver you need DAC/AMP device. 
If the seller tells you something like this, then there is a 50/50 chance that some will give up and it does not pay off for them.
I don't have red dot. On this thread you have many suggestions and mods for tuning any bud driver


----------



## Themilkman46290

Yeah, the 130ohm can be driven with a phone, but it depends on what phone
Any og the LG v series then you are set, also HTC flagships and Sony flagships, some older iPhones had enough power


----------



## Themilkman46290

If you don't have the power, the 33 ohm 19-21 pink dot is good, the blue dot 64ohm is also great 
Also the n52 drivers are pretty good


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yeah, the 130ohm can be driven with a phone, but it depends on what phone
> Any og the LG v series then you are set, also HTC flagships and Sony flagships, some older iPhones had enough power


I drive 400ohm graphene on LG G7 but with desktop DAC is another story


----------



## docentore

Folks, any 14.2mm/14.8mm drivers  that are worthy? I have tried to mod Smabat M1  and broke one of the drivers. Not biggie since I hated how they sounded out of the box.
Looking for something with "weight", the M1 sounded too thin and bright to me. Yincrow X6/RW9,  Tmusic EP03 are my favs at the moment.

Thanks.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 4, 2021)

docentore said:


> Folks, any 14.2mm/14.8mm drivers  that are worthy? I have tried to mod Smabat M1  and broke one of the drivers. Not biggie since I hated how they sounded out of the box.
> Looking for something with "weight", the M1 sounded too thin and bright to me. Yincrow X6/RW9,  Tmusic EP03 are my favs at the moment.
> 
> Thanks.


If you can't buy from Taobao then you can look for the Nokia HDD-1 buds on Amazon. This model use PK1 150ohm "red film" driver which is the one of best DIY 14.8mm driver





32om version of the same driver can be found on Ali but we don't know is it good or not


----------



## assassin10000

docentore said:


> Folks, any 14.2mm/14.8mm drivers  that are worthy? I have tried to mod Smabat M1  and broke one of the drivers. Not biggie since I hated how they sounded out of the box.
> Looking for something with "weight", the M1 sounded too thin and bright to me. Yincrow X6/RW9,  Tmusic EP03 are my favs at the moment.
> 
> Thanks.



I'd recommend trying the 14.8mm 40Ω Titanium driver.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> I'd recommend trying the 14.8mm 40Ω Titanium driver.


Don't tell me that the king was dethroned


----------



## Themilkman46290

docentore said:


> Folks, any 14.2mm/14.8mm drivers  that are worthy? I have tried to mod Smabat M1  and broke one of the drivers. Not biggie since I hated how they sounded out of the box.
> Looking for something with "weight", the M1 sounded too thin and bright to me. Yincrow X6/RW9,  Tmusic EP03 are my favs at the moment.
> 
> Thanks.


VE monk light 120ohm spc, 20 dollars 
I carefully replaced the cap with the more traditional 14.8mm shell cap, a little retuning and I am fairly impressed with it, sound a lot like the 120ohm Bery with treble


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 4, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Don't tell me that the king was dethroned



Not at all. But they want some 'weight' which I interpret as a thicker, warmer or bassier signature.


----------



## earfanatic

Have You seen these before:
14.3mm speaker unit Wool fever unit 




Not much specs, but comments say it is the Airpod driver, and around 38 Ohm.
Ifixit proves this is actually the newer cabled Airpod driver.
Size would match with the Auglamour RX-1 driver, and these wool drivers remind me of the Denon/Fostex microfiber diaphragm.


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> Have You seen these before:
> 14.3mm speaker unit Wool fever unit
> 
> Not much specs, but comments say it is the Airpod driver, and around 38 Ohm.
> ...


This bio-cellulose driver is made probably by Foster Electric Company (not Fostex)
This model also uses Foster driver, but I don't know which material they use for diaphragm.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 4, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Have You seen these before:
> 14.3mm speaker unit Wool fever unit
> 
> Not much specs, but comments say it is the Airpod driver, and around 38 Ohm.
> ...



That driver was in both my Sabbat X12 Pro and Sabbat X12 Ultra.


----------



## earfanatic

I'm gonna buy this driver to try. And some stuff. I have got the itch. Now I have to decide what colour of cable to buy.


----------



## irv003

is there any chance that someone might have a picture of a ve zen 1 driver? or of a seahf 300 driver?


----------



## robar (Feb 4, 2021)

Maceinspace said:


> Dang it. NSC store states the 130 ohm is playable straight from a phone... It seemed too good to be true but I had to ask lol. I guess I'll have to play around with the 32 ohm red dot more.
> 
> Could you recommend a tuning setup to improve sound quality with the red dots? Seems like mids are the biggest issue I've been having with them. I've got thin black horseshoe foams on one pair and thick black foams on another, both have recessed mids. Not sure if I should switch the foam it to the shell and/or try something else. Decrease cavity size too?


Did you put the foam on the speaker and not the shell vents directly? Then definitely try to switch that around, so bare speakers and thin foam on vents, check the seal so it's not leaking. This should sound fairly balanced, slightly bright u-shaped profile if you use standard black mx500 shell. The cover shouldn't be loose on the shell, find a pair that fits well or use a bit glue.
You can try to balance it further by drilling a small hole on the shell and maybe covering it with thin paper and/or partially covering the speaker vents with white thin horseshoe. Btw mx500 shell usually has somewhat recessed mids, it's a characteristic of the shell this is why many midcentric speakers sound okay with them. Maybe you can experiment with other shells as well that has different sound profle


----------



## captione

Maceinspace said:


> Dang it. NSC store states the 130 ohm is playable straight from a phone... It seemed too good to be true but I had to ask lol. I guess I'll have to play around with the 32 ohm red dot more.
> 
> Could you recommend a tuning setup to improve sound quality with the red dots? Seems like mids are the biggest issue I've been having with them. I've got thin black horseshoe foams on one pair and thick black foams on another, both have recessed mids. Not sure if I should switch the foam it to the shell and/or try something else. Decrease cavity size too?


You could try giving your dad recabled Vidos. My grandparents love them. Drives well with phones.

There's also the 15.4mm 32ohms N52 Drivers that has a blue epoxy, the specs states that they're very driveable.

If you're still bent on the 19-21 path, try the titanium versions of them (though they're the hardest to mangle up and prone on messing up the drivers so there's that), I'd suggest the Pink Dot since the 64ohm one is DEFINITELY not in your preferred signature.
There's also the 32ohm normal green dot 19-21 which is more leaner and bright than the red dot.


----------



## irv003

one of the top ranking buds, sennheiser mx985 modded w/ TPE ofc cable and 4.4 gold plug


----------



## rprodrigues

My dear DIY gurus,

Where to go after the 130 and 600 ohm bery DIY drivers? I liked the 600 one but the 130 is a better deal. 

I've skipped 150, 300, and 400 versions because I own branded equivalents.


----------



## rprodrigues

Themilkman46290 said:


> VE monk light 120ohm spc, 20 dollars
> I carefully replaced the cap with the more traditional 14.8mm shell cap, a little retuning and I am fairly impressed with it, sound a lot like the 120ohm Bery with treble




Was it difficult to open their shells?


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Feb 5, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> Was it difficult to open their shells?


No it wasn't, but it's always pretty unnerving when you replace the face of it, 
But it sounds a lot better then the 120ohm. 

Although the best are my 130ohm and 400ohm, I have made a couple variations with those 2 and both are hands down the best in my collection 
1. 400ohm (all around/slightly laid back/great sub bass dark)

2. 130ohm(best detail retriever, great sub bass, bright) 
3. 500ohm(very good sub bass, bass mids and highs, fairly neutral) 
4. 64ohm composite (sub bass monsters, definitely bass head approved, dark fun) 
5. 200 ohm salvaged from to200 (good bass, sub bass, very balanced nice highs, bright) 
6. 68ohm (mid centric, decent highs, really good vocals, dry bass, bright) 
7. The whole 19-21 series is really great, cheap, fun v shaped sound, bright and bassy) 


I never could get a great tuning out of the 600, it was great from the sellers, straight in the mx500 shells, but any of my other builds leave it in the dust. 
The 300ohm  aren't very special. 
The 120ohm 14.8mm is just too dark

120ohm monk light is fairly surprising, I tuned it a bit dark, but it sounds surprisingly spacious, but the timber is a bit funny on it.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Where to go after the 130 and 600 ohm bery DIY drivers? I liked the 600 one but the 130 is a better deal.


Where to go? On vacation  
Now you have the best of the best.
If you want to go up with impedance then TY Hi-Z HP 650 or what @Themilkman46290 suggested


----------



## docentore

I couldn't find any Nokia HDD-1 around so I decided to take risk and bought Nokia HDS-3. Drivers look like PK2 ones but measure 30Ohm.

Does anyone know anything about these? Thanks.


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> No it wasn't, but it's always pretty unnerving when you replace the face of it,
> But it sounds a lot better then the 120ohm.
> 
> Although the best are my 130ohm and 400ohm, I have made a couple variations with those 2 and both are hands down the best in my collection
> ...


600ohm Bery? I thought you had it?


----------



## furyossa (Feb 5, 2021)

docentore said:


> I couldn't find any Nokia HDD-1 around so I decided to take risk and bought Nokia HDS-3. Drivers look like PK2 ones but measure 30Ohm.
> 
> Does anyone know anything about these? Thanks.


Post the link for Nokia HDS-3

Can you buy HDD-1 from here?
Nokia HS-23 uses PK3 driver
https://www.ebay.com/c/129397961

BTW... HDD-1 have 2.5mm plug for NOKIA phone input. You will need to replace cable for all Nokia buds


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> 600ohm Bery? I thought you had it?


I do, in a box somewhere decided to give up on it, resoldered it too many times , tied everything I had, shells, filters, foams, even bought a fiio a5 just to push it a bit harder but it never satisfied like the other drivers.. 
It's not bad, don't get me wrong, see many people like it, but it seemed like it was lacking the highs that I was looking for. 
These 64ohm 19-21 blue dots are burning in really well though, used the to200 shells, after grinded out the glue and crappy mmcx connectors I noticed a hole in the back, so I clean it out and so for, they sound great


----------



## docentore (Feb 5, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Post the link for Nokia HDS-3
> 
> Can you buy HDD-1 from here?
> Nokia HS-23 uses PK3 driver
> ...


Bought it on local auction site so the link won't be any good for you. I also bought 2 other Nokia headsets (HS31 and HS45), all were 2-3$ here

I'll try to reshell (use the Smabat M1 shells) and see how it goes.

Attached photo of the HDS3


----------



## cappuchino

Just wanna share with you guys my first ever successful "reshell & recable."

So the K's Nameless sound was cutting off whenever the jack moves. I decided to fix them by recabling using my leftover Vido cable. Opted to also reshell at the same time with the red Vido shell. At first I was afraid to do it as the first time I attempted recabling, I damaged the drivers of my Vidos. 

I started going by the steps - with opening the buds first. But then I encountered a problem - the pointed tip of my soldering iron wasn't doing any soldering. I attributed it with it not being "clean" but I didn't have any steel wool (?) or flux to do cleaning. *So I proceeded with using the barrel before the point of the tip which was* *extremely hard to be accurate with*. Got both drivers unsoldered. And then I proceeded with the recabling procedure. I was playing music through my phone so that I may know if the recable was successful. Burnt the faceplate here and there but finally got done with it.

My second attempt with DIY-ing wasn't the prettiest nor is it perfect, but I'm just happy that I didn't damage the buds and music is still coming out from the drivers 😁 It's still a success story and an experience that helped me grow as an aspiring DIY-er.

*That first recable attempt where I killed my Vidos seriously helped me with this one. I was more careful with every action/move that I took.

*Before:*




*After:


*


----------



## rprodrigues

Themilkman46290 said:


> No it wasn't, but it's always pretty unnerving when you replace the face of it,
> But it sounds a lot better then the 120ohm.
> 
> Although the best are my 130ohm and 400ohm, I have made a couple variations with those 2 and both are hands down the best in my collection
> ...



I was about to order the 500 Ohm drivers but I ended up ordering the 600 version. As you had pointed out, it is not a great deal (since 130 ohm exist) and it seems I regret. I've read that they have  cans like  sound signature (as the k600), but I prefer the Rosemary in this regard.

I had already read your opinion regarding the 400ohm graphene drivers but I supposed they might be close to to400s I already own, so I skipped them too.

For 300 ohm, I own both k300 (they are not praised but I like them) and s300 (kinda meh). For 150 ohm, Rosemary is my current take (I like them)… so I skipped the DIY drivers for 150 and 300 ohm


----------



## Themilkman46290

rprodrigues said:


> I was about to order the 500 Ohm drivers but I ended up ordering the 600 version. As you had pointed out, it is not a great deal (since 130 ohm exist) and it seems I regret. I've read that they have  cans like  sound signature (as the k600), but I prefer the Rosemary in this regard.
> 
> I had already read your opinion regarding the 400ohm graphene drivers but I supposed they might be close to to400s I already own, so I skipped them too.
> 
> For 300 ohm, I own both k300 (they are not praised but I like them) and s300 (kinda meh). For 150 ohm, Rosemary is my current take (I like them)… so I skipped the DIY drivers for 150 and 300 ohm


You are right they are the same drivers as to400s, so I took apart my to400s and put the drivers in wood shells, the to400s was a disaster, no bass at all, hard to beleive its the same driver, it is more capable than the to400s 
The 500ohm in my opinion is much better then the 600ohm better sub bass, treble extends a lot better, I regret the 600ohm purchase, for this price I could've purchased 130ohm and 400ohm


----------



## earfanatic

Does anyone have a link to mixed tuning material? Horseshoe foam and cotton differens sizes, but in one lot.
I dont want to order 100pcs from everything.


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Feb 6, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Does anyone have a link to mixed tuning material? Horseshoe foam and cotton differens sizes, but in one lot.
> I dont want to order 100pcs from everything.


I wish it was like that, but sadly no, I bought 200 papers ranging from y2-y6, then I bought tuning foam (full-size, for driver not housing) 100+ pcs in 2 different compression ratios, then I bought 100+foam horse shoes for shell (slightly smaller and thicker then the ones meant for driver)
it cost me about $40+ in total for that
But, some drivers have a lot more capabilities if your willing to retune (400ohm, 130ohm, 19-21 series, 500ohm and a couple others) and some drivers are better simply as a drop in and listen, these are decent but once others are retuned, these can't compete (600ohm, 300ohm)
I can say, me and my wife have listened to the k's 600, 300 samsara's, the whole toneking TO series, penon bs1, ve zen, seahf 400ohm and countless others.
We sold the nice ones, kept the crappy ones (toneking) most of what I have made, is much better then the stuff we bought

So far, only the k's samsara was kept because the highs extend so much more then the drivers on AE


----------



## captione

docentore said:


> Bought it on local auction site so the link won't be any good for you. I also bought 2 other Nokia headsets (HS31 and HS45), all were 2-3$ here
> 
> I'll try to reshell (use the Smabat M1 shells) and see how it goes.
> 
> Attached photo of the HDS3


Been really eying that HDS3 since i saw a listing at a local online shop. Is it equivalent to the red film or just your usual retro drivers? Also, if you can, please take a picture of the PCB and document it here for future references 😉 would love to see what's inside.


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Been really eying that HDS3 since i saw a listing at a local online shop. Is it equivalent to the red film or just your usual retro drivers? Also, if you can, please take a picture of the PCB and document it here for future references 😉 would love to see what's inside.


"red film" driver is not cheap. HDD-1 is $25 (that's about the last time ""red film cost Chitty store)

I spoke with @FranQL about PK2. He wants to order PK2 and "goddess" cable but balanced version from Chitty store. 
He asked them if it was possible to get a "red film" 150ohm, and they told him it was possible and that they would inform him soon


----------



## irv003

aiwa v151 terminated to 4.4mm, 
still original cable


----------



## Maceinspace

robar said:


> Did you put the foam on the speaker and not the shell vents directly? Then definitely try to switch that around, so bare speakers and thin foam on vents, check the seal so it's not leaking. This should sound fairly balanced, slightly bright u-shaped profile if you use standard black mx500 shell. The cover shouldn't be loose on the shell, find a pair that fits well or use a bit glue.
> You can try to balance it further by drilling a small hole on the shell and maybe covering it with thin paper and/or partially covering the speaker vents with white thin horseshoe. Btw mx500 shell usually has somewhat recessed mids, it's a characteristic of the shell this is why many midcentric speakers sound okay with them. Maybe you can experiment with other shells as well that has different sound profle



I'm going to try this right now. Thanks for the tips on tuning. One of the 32ohm red dot buds has foams (not sure if on driver or inner shell) and a 1mm hole drilled in the back of the shell - the mids on these are definitely suffering. These metal shells arrived yesterday; I'll probably try the 32ohm drivers out with them soon and send them off to my dad if they work out.

I accidentally bought WAY too many 32ohm red dots so I've got a lot to practice with lol.


----------



## Maceinspace

captione said:


> You could try giving your dad recabled Vidos. My grandparents love them. Drives well with phones.
> 
> There's also the 15.4mm 32ohms N52 Drivers that has a blue epoxy, the specs states that they're very driveable.
> 
> ...



You know, I'll probably end up recabling one of my vidos and send that as well. It's so cheap I might as well let him choose! Thank you for the suggestions, it's a big help. I've got the 32ohm N52 drivers that I may revisit as well.


----------



## rprodrigues

irv003 said:


> one of the top ranking buds, sennheiser mx985 modded w/ TPE ofc cable and 4.4 gold plug



What a great cable! Where did you get it?


----------



## irv003

rprodrigues said:


> What a great cable! Where did you get it?


its an affordable cable in aliexpress, you can search "TPE cable."


----------



## rprodrigues (Feb 7, 2021)

irv003 said:


> its an affordable cable in aliexpress, you can search "TPE cable."



I figured out that you prefer OFC cables (according to your last posts). Is there any reason for that?

It would be nice if you could share some more details of your mods (photos, materials). Some of them look pretty!


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> I figured out that you prefer OFC cables (according to your last posts). Is there any reason for that?
> 
> It would be nice if you could share some more details of your mods (photos, materials). Some of them look pretty!


That would be great for a change


irv003 said:


> actually cable is part of what i want them to sound. its not really that i like premium stuffs. its just that docomo stock sound is warm to dark, installed spc to make them less warmer.
> 
> here is TY Hi-z 32 ohms version 2.
> modded it with black OFC wire w/ ranko plugs.
> basic build, better sound


In this post you mentioned that "_*cable is part of what I want them to sound"*_
Can you explain what you meant by that?


----------



## docentore

captione said:


> Been really eying that HDS3 since i saw a listing at a local online shop. Is it equivalent to the red film or just your usual retro drivers? Also, if you can, please take a picture of the PCB and document it here for future references 😉 would love to see what's inside.


----------



## captione

docentore said:


>


Thank you! Awfully looks like those 150ohms 15.4mm driver that had a yuin like faceplate. Interesting..


----------



## Themilkman46290

docentore said:


>


Do you know the impedance on it?
Wonder how it compares to others, I can actually source these locally but most of these guys want between 5 and 10 dollars, I am wondering if its worth it


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> I can actually source these locally but most of these guys want between 5 and 10 dollars, I am wondering if its worth it


For experimentation, why not? Hmm... did you try maybe the high impedance mod with resistors yet?
I'm not good with electricity and that kind of stuff but I would like to see a "step by step" guide and an explanation for that mode


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> For experimentation, why not? Hmm... did you try maybe the high impedance mod with resistors yet?
> I'm not good with electricity and that kind of stuff but I would like to see a "step by step" guide and an explanation for that mode


I haven't tried to add a resistor, I always figure it would change not only the impedance but also the frequency response, but maybe I am wrong, I would need to read a bit about it

As I understand it's great if you need to match a low impedance dynamic driver to a high impedance source
Or to trigger dac mode on some LG phones

But I like how there is less noise and less distortion at higher volume with high impedance drivers, they also seem to sound a bit fuller. 

Like these 19-21 drivers get real close to the higher impedance drivers until you crank the volume, then the tend to rattle and fart

But,  the higher impedance need a strong source, the low impedance doesn't


----------



## furyossa (Feb 9, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> I haven't tried to add a resistor, I always figure it would change not only the impedance but also the frequency response, but maybe I am wrong, I would need to read a bit about it


I'm not sure about changing Freq. responce. For example ShoonTH, not much has changed, maybe a little spread on both ends
*ShoonTH ESEP-01BL* spec is: Sensitivity: 110dB/mW ; Impedance: 32Ω ; Freq. range: 10hz-22KHz
*ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE* spec is: Sensitivity: 109dB/mW ; Impedance: 150Ω ; Freq. range: 8Hz-25KHz
*ShoonTH ESEP-01BU* spec is: Sensitivity: 109dB/mW ; Impedance: 150Ω ; Freq. range: 10HZ-30KHZ



Themilkman46290 said:


> As I understand it's great if you need to match a low impedance dynamic driver to a high impedance source
> Or to trigger dac mode on some LG phones


I'm interesting to increase impedance of "old-school" 16ohm driver which is the most common driver in every vintage earbuds



Themilkman46290 said:


> But I like how there is less noise and less distortion at higher volume with high impedance drivers, they also seem to sound a bit fuller.


For now, I use FAAEAL impedance adapters to solve the issue with all of that



Themilkman46290 said:


> Like these 19-21 drivers get real close to the higher impedance drivers until you crank the volume, then the tend to rattle and fart


I experienced this while burn-in vintage buds, almost every one of them rattle at a higher volume. You are familiar with the term "old fart"  



Themilkman46290 said:


> But, the higher impedance need a strong source, the low impedance doesn't


Small price to pay  I mean if you are in this hobby, sooner or later each of us procures a device like this.
Nowadays, we have very different solutions at very reasonable prices, and we don't need anything ultra-high for earbuds.

@DBaldock9 I assume you have experience with this, can you give us your opinion?


----------



## irv003

furyossa said:


> That would be great for a change
> 
> In this post you mentioned that "_*cable is part of what I want them to sound"*_
> Can you explain what you meant by that?


its just the basic mix and matching. if dark sounding drivers i would normally go with silver or spc wire. if bright sounding drivers, ill go with copper.


----------



## furyossa

irv003 said:


> its just the basic mix and matching. if dark sounding drivers i would normally go with silver or spc wire. if bright sounding drivers, ill go with copper.


Ok That's makes sense. This rule is often applied to speakers, but the speaker cables are significantly more expensive (also better quality) than the cables we use for earbuds,
so that the difference in sound itself is much more noticeable.
When it comes to earbuds, the difference between pure silver and copper is noticed, of course depends on the quality of the wire material, but SPC ... not so much. Here I talk about cables below $50 but let's leave the cables aside.

I am more interested in shells (their design, ergonomics, vent systems) and interesting mod solutions with "making of" process related to physical tuning.(by using foams or other filter material or by modifying the shell). We have all seen the beautiful models you presented, I can really see the work and effort invested here, and you're showing these models in the best possible way. Can you show us what's going on "under the hood" or some interesting mod which you are proud of?  After all, that is the main topic on this thread  
See the thing is many DIY stores from Ali, as you already know, "borrow" drivers from some branded models or make copies and sell them as DIY parts without indicating which model is in question. We already find some of them. You mostly recable branded models, so I'm interested in whether you can show a picture of the interior where the driver can be seen. Any information on this is really very useful

On this occasion, I would like to thank all the members of the forum, especially the DIY lovers and fans who visit this place and post all kind of ideas and mods which make this thread alive. I personally learned a lot of things from here and more importantly I met a lot of very nice and intelligent people who freely share their amazing work.


----------



## furyossa

This is one example of the "borrowed" drivers I mentioned in a previous post.
15mm "center bass port"  and of course without any info except: _" The sound of the speaker unit is very good, the resolution is good, the low frequency is excellent "   _




https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001635454353.html
Can anyone identify this driver? I guess this driver was taken from some shell that uses a rubber ring that holds the driver.


----------



## DBaldock9

furyossa said:


> I'm not sure about changing Freq. responce. For example ShoonTH, not much has changed, maybe a little spread on both ends
> *ShoonTH ESEP-01BL* spec is: Sensitivity: 110dB/mW ; Impedance: 32Ω ; Freq. range: 10hz-22KHz
> *ShoonTH ESEP-01BLE* spec is: Sensitivity: 109dB/mW ; Impedance: 150Ω ; Freq. range: 8Hz-25KHz
> *ShoonTH ESEP-01BU* spec is: Sensitivity: 109dB/mW ; Impedance: 150Ω ; Freq. range: 10HZ-30KHZ
> ...



From a purely physics / electronics standpoint - any speaker can be modeled as an RLC (resistance / inductance / capacitance) element in a circuit. So, as a system, changing the series resistance, will change the circuit - but it may, or may not be audible, depending on where in the response curve the effect occurs. Also, the mechanical characteristics of the speaker may mask the changes that are made by the electrical change.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 10, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Does anyone have a link to mixed tuning material? Horseshoe foam and cotton differens sizes, but in one lot.
> I dont want to order 100pcs from everything.


I don't know about mixed in one lot but you can order 20-30 pcs from one place
From Yuming Store
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32809374899.html (20pcs)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000843725924.html (30pcs)

From Chitty's Store
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2035852108.html (10pcs)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2036360886.html (100 pcs )

You can always ask for mix package, some stores want to accept such an offer, especially Chitty's Store.
Once I asked them to put together a pair of earbuds (without gluing) with a shell, driver and cable that were sold as separate products and plus some spare parts.
They send me everything down to the last piece


----------



## furyossa (Feb 10, 2021)

DBaldock9 said:


> From a purely physics / electronics standpoint - any speaker can be modeled as an RLC (resistance / inductance / capacitance) element in a circuit. So, as a system, changing the series resistance, will change the circuit - but it may, or may not be audible, depending on where in the response curve the effect occurs. Also, the mechanical characteristics of the speaker may mask the changes that are made by the electrical change.


Thanks for the very detailed explanation.
Did you make any mod like this, with a resistor on the driver?


----------



## DBaldock9

furyossa said:


> Thanks for the very detailed explanation.
> Did you make any mod like this, with a resistor on the driver?



No, I haven't really experimented much with driver tuning - other than trying thicker or thinner cotton horseshoes.


----------



## furyossa

DBaldock9 said:


> No, I haven't really experimented much with driver tuning - other than trying thicker or thinner cotton horseshoes.


I don't know what to do before I solder the resistor. Is there "step by step" guide for similar mod?


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> I don't know what to do before I solder the resistor. Is there "step by step" guide for similar mod?


If you parallel resistors, you end up with smaller resistance than the smaller one.
I assume you should solder the resistor in series to the driver coil. Then you make a resistor divider. On the two resistors the voltage divides, so volume will be lower. But because the coil impedance (not real resistance) is changing with frequency, you make a filter. A low pass filter to be exact, that means the upper frequencies will be cut differently. Search Google for LR low pass filter.


----------



## Themilkman46290

I've been thinking of getting a pair of used srh840, but didn't like the treble peak, so I searched a bit and found this 


It's a passive filter


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> I've been thinking of getting a pair of used srh840, but didn't like the treble peak, so I searched a bit and found this
> 
> It's a passive filter


Nice find. Here are more info about LowPassFilter
I don't know if attenuation adapters can be good choice


----------



## vygas

furyossa said:


> "red film" driver is not cheap. HDD-1 is $25 (that's about the last time ""red film cost Chitty store)
> 
> I spoke with @FranQL about PK2. He wants to order PK2 and "goddess" cable but balanced version from Chitty store.
> He asked them if it was possible to get a "red film" 150ohm, and they told him it was possible and that they would inform him soon


Actually, if you don't mind going used or just being patient, you can find a HDD-1 for $5 or so. 1 out of the 2 I had actually ended up actually working but that's still $15 less for 1 working pair . I'm 90% sure that the HDD-1 was the only Nokia bud with the red film, I've still got a "PK" shelled HDD-2 on the way but I know for a fact that the HDS-3 uses a different 150ohm driver. Possibly the same 150ohm 15.4mm white driver that's been popping up on Ali as of recent. Either way, I highly recommend just going through eBay and trying to find a few pairs to tinker with. (p.s. I will be doing a post about real and fake HDD-1's since I've actually encountered a pair online before).


----------



## earfanatic

vygas said:


> Actually, if you don't mind going used or just being patient, you can find a HDD-1 for $5 or so. 1 out of the 2 I had actually ended up actually working but that's still $15 less for 1 working pair .


Is it really that good? One popped up in a local store. 🤔


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> Is it really that good? One popped up in a local store. 🤔



Don't tell me you're wondering whether to buy it?  
We are constantly talking about this driver as it’s hard to find and about how its good, and it’s literally served to you on a plate.
Chitty store can find this driver, but they sell it in between $40-$50


----------



## captione

They're really good. Hope @vygas sends me one LOL jk 

But dang is it hard to find, I saw listings of the drivers. There was two of them and I'm really contemplating whether I should ditch my planned projects and just buy it 😂. They were at least 15 to 20usd here for the drivers (thank god for Indonesian sellers!).


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> They're really good. Hope @vygas sends me one LOL jk
> 
> But dang is it hard to find, I saw listings of the drivers. There was two of them and I'm really contemplating whether I should ditch my planned projects and just buy it 😂. They were at least 15 to 20usd here for the drivers (thank god for Indonesian sellers!).


@vygas is not


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Don't tell me you're wondering whether to buy it?


Maybe there is a slight chance...
Just in case one of these gets im my possession... what shell would You consider for it?


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> Maybe there is a slight chance...
> Just in case one of these gets im my possession... what shell would You consider for it?


Docomo shell work perfect. I tried metal shell (last two images from this post), but I was not satisfied with the sound


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Docomo shell work perfect. I tried metal shell (last two images from this post), but I was not satisfied with the sound


You say to leave it in the Nokia shell is fine?


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> You say to leave it in the Nokia shell is fine?


You can, but you need to change the cable


----------



## furyossa

You can find semi-finished cables here
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/cable/1850191_507099169.html
https://greensense.id.aliexpress.com/store/group/semi-finished-cable/323026_508012314.html


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> You can, but you need to change the cable


Thank you. I'll try that first. For other parts I need to wait due to Chinese New year anyway. So Yes, I gonna buy it!


----------



## Themilkman46290

Are any other Nokia drivers good, I see a lot that seem to have the 14.8mm look, but non with the docomo shells..


----------



## furyossa (Feb 12, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Are any other Nokia drivers good, I see a lot that seem to have the 14.8mm look, but non with the docomo shells..



@vygas knows which model is worthwhile and which is not.
He is the main reason why there is a shortage of Nokia models in stores, I mean these better ones


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> @vygas knows which model is worthwhile and which is not.
> He is the main reason why there is a shortage of Nokia models in stores, I mean these better ones


I thought that it's because Nokia ceased its mobile phone distribution in 2008. But probably both. : 

Anyway, there is a guy in my area who is listing a whole box of old headsets online (ncl. the HDD-1), I will meet, and will ask what else worthless junk he has got.


----------



## furyossa (Feb 12, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> I thought that it's because Nokia ceased its mobile phone distribution in 2008. But probably both. :



No no no. It's because @vygas 
This has nothing to do with mobile devices distribution . Nokia now have smartphones, but without headsets, and guess who is responsible for that 



earfanatic said:


> Anyway, there is a guy in my area who is listing a whole box of old headsets online (ncl. the HDD-1), I will meet, and will ask what else worthless junk he has got.


What is in the box? Did he have a list of buds?


----------



## Themilkman46290

A buddy of mine who has been a Nokia fanatic since the late 90's recently asked if I wanted a box of old headsets, he has no idea what's in there...... 
Only thing I need to do in return, make him my special $50 burger (I was a chef until I came to live in eastern Europe) lucky for me, it only cost me $7 dollars in ingredients.. 
I guess it pays to have so many useless skills


----------



## Themilkman46290

vygas said:


> Actually, if you don't mind going used or just being patient, you can find a HDD-1 for $5 or so. 1 out of the 2 I had actually ended up actually working but that's still $15 less for 1 working pair . I'm 90% sure that the HDD-1 was the only Nokia bud with the red film, I've still got a "PK" shelled HDD-2 on the way but I know for a fact that the HDS-3 uses a different 150ohm driver. Possibly the same 150ohm 15.4mm white driver that's been popping up on Ali as of recent. Either way, I highly recommend just going through eBay and trying to find a few pairs to tinker with. (p.s. I will be doing a post about real and fake HDD-1's since I've actually encountered a pair online before).


Please take pictures of the fakes, I am sure some of the stuff I see in local adds maybe fake. 
Also I noticed some mono Nokia headsets that use pk shells, wondering if they are worth it.


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> No no no. It's because @vygas
> This has nothing to do with mobile devices distribution . Nokia now have smartphones, but without headsets, and guess who is responsible for that
> 
> 
> What is in the box? Did he have a list of buds?


Not really. I saw hds and hs but the other photo is like spaghetti in a cardboard box.


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> A buddy of mine who has been a Nokia fanatic since the late 90's recently asked if I wanted a box of old headsets, he has no idea what's in there......
> Only thing I need to do in return, make him my special $50 burger (I was a chef until I came to live in eastern Europe) lucky for me, it only cost me $7 dollars in ingredients..
> I guess it pays to have so many useless skills


$50 burger  Either it is very large or you are using meat from some endangered species.
I agree with you, sometimes we have to sacrifice ourselves for earbuds.  Everything for hobbies.  Don't expect much from these buds but it's fun to explore something that's new... sorry I mean old


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> other photo is like spaghetti in a cardboard box.


You mean a bird's nest


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> $50 burger  Either it is very large or you are using meat from some endangered species.
> I agree with you, sometimes we have to sacrifice ourselves for earbuds.  Everything for hobbies.  Don't expect much from these buds but it's fun to explore something that's new... sorry I mean old


Thing is, I have a lot of ingredients that are hard to find where I am at like French truffle salt, Italian sun dried tomatoes, Chinese shrimp powder, pecorino pepato, and yes, I use dry aged beef (age it myself)


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> You mean a bird's nest


No, no, there are small meatbuds... I mean meatballs in it.


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Thing is, I have a lot of ingredients that are hard to find where I am at like French truffle salt, Italian sun dried tomatoes, Chinese shrimp powder, pecorino pepato, and yes, I use dry aged beef (age it myself)


Wow man, that's great.   
What does your dog (from avatar photo) say to all this?  You know, they dream about food


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Wow man, that's great.
> What does your dog (from avatar photo) say to all this?  You know, they dream about food


My dog probably eats better then most of the people in my building, every 3 days I cook a new batch, with either, chicken breast, beef rump or a mix of livers and hearts, seasoned with thyme, rosemary, and parsley, sautéed in olive oil. A side of broccoli, grean beans, carrots and  cauliflower and either white rice, buckwheat or potatoes...... 

She goes nuts for it, starts barking 5 minutes to feeding time  to make sure I get it nice and warm first


----------



## Themilkman46290

What can I say, cooking has been my passion since I was 17, when my sister and mother had gotten upset because I burned the rice, they teased and didn't allow me to cook again, so I decided to learn, became hooked on Julia child, Emeril lagasse, Martin yan, and anothony Bourdain. 

Every body around me is getting fat these days......


----------



## furyossa (Feb 12, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> My dog probably eats better then most of the people in my building, every 3 days I cook a new batch, with either, chicken breast, beef rump or a mix of livers and hearts, seasoned with thyme, rosemary, and parsley, sautéed in olive oil. A side of broccoli, grean beans, carrots and  cauliflower and either white rice, buckwheat or potatoes......
> 
> She goes nuts for it, starts barking 5 minutes to feeding time  to make sure I get it nice and warm first


I'm jealous right now I think you spoiled your dog a little 
The story of the dogs is a never ending story.
My previous dog lived for 18 years. He ate healthy food (not as rich as in your case) and had extraordinary conditions: a large grassy yard. Now I live in the city and am not a supporter of keeping a dog in the building


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> I'm jealous right now I think you spoiled your dog a little
> The story of the dogs is a never ending story.
> My previous dog lived for 18 years. He ate healthy food (not as rich as in your case) and had extraordinary conditions: a large grassy yard. Now I live in the city and am not a supporter of keeping a dog in the building


Yeah, it's a bit of work, for sure, but I always been a dog lover, she was a rescue, some drunks abused her, she was terrified of pretty much everyone, she was very under weight, nervous, she was scared to bark, and I was told that she is very stubborn and wasn't even house trained

Now, she doesn't stop barking, she doesn't fear anything, and she turned out to be fairly smart, had her house trained in 7 days, basic training only took me a month 

So i read up on show dog food and we decided, only the best!!


----------



## jeejack

I changed the RY4S 300 ohm shell with Vido's shell. Now I really like the way it sounds. More bright and clean and with a very good bass


----------



## rprodrigues (Feb 12, 2021)

PT52 here... well, their shells deserve better drivers (lack of bass).

What drivers would work fine with metal shells?
The famous 130 Ohm (bery), the budget king 19-21, or the 600 Ohm?

I'd like to avoid testing each of them because It is possible that I end up damaging them (due to my bad soldering skills).


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> PT52 here... well, their shells deserve better drivers (lack of bass).
> 
> What drivers would work fine with metal shells?
> The famous 130 Ohm (bery), the budget king 19-21, or the 600 Ohm?
> ...


You can try "Papa Bery", also try to reduce cavity size by adding absorbent material in the back part of the shell to see how the driver reacts.
While you testing, if driver not holds on the shell use double side duct tape, avoid glue. 
Are there any vent on the shell?


----------



## rprodrigues

furyossa said:


> You can try "Papa Bery", also try to reduce cavity size by adding absorbent material in the back part of the shell to see how the driver reacts.
> While you testing, if driver not holds on the shell use double side duct tape, avoid glue.
> Are there any vent on the shell?



Nops. There are only 3 at the top... 
The shells are indeed sturdy. Once with appropriated drivers, the set may become great earbuds..

Thank you for the tips!


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> Nops. There are only 3 at the top...
> The shells are indeed sturdy. Once with appropriated drivers, the set may become great earbuds..
> 
> Thank you for the tips!


I assumed the vents were set just in front part of the shell. That's why I suggest the "Papa Bery" driver. 
If the bass is tamed,  then a small vent on the back of the shell could solve the problem


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Docomo shell work perfect. I tried metal shell (last two images from this post), but I was not satisfied with the sound


Thank You for your recommendations.
There are only a few 14.8mm shells. I saw this one that looks nice. How different is this from the one You did not like?
DIY Earphone housing shell pure copper

I am worriad about the weight, though. If it is made from copper (i have doubts) is should be heavy.


----------



## assassin10000 (Feb 13, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Thank You for your recommendations.
> There are only a few 14.8mm shells. I saw this one that looks nice. How different is this from the one You did not like?
> DIY Earphone housing shell pure copper
> 
> I am worriad about the weight, though. If it is made from copper (i have doubts) is should be heavy.



Be aware that these shells will need modification. They are an odd size and were probably originally meant for their own covers. There is a version of these sold with a regular stem and metal driver faceplates.

I had to remove a lip and file the shell O.D. down to fit 14.8mm drivers.





And yes, they are a heavier shell as they are a heavier metal, but not uncomfortably so.


If you're in the U.S. I'd sell these already modded ones.


----------



## earfanatic

assassin10000 said:


> Be aware that these shells will need modification. They are an odd size and were probably originally meant for their own covers. There is a version of these sold with a regular stem and metal driver faceplates.
> 
> I had to remove a lip and file the shell O.D. down to fit 14.8mm drivers.
> 
> ...


I was wandering why no covers are sold with it. Thank you for warning.


----------



## vygas

By request of @Themilkman46290, these are the photos that show differences between a real HDD-1 and the Italian seller's "EU Market HDD-1":



Spoiler: Driver and Faceplate







On the fake pair, the faceplate is much bigger as it fits more like a sleeve rather than the usual method and contains holes that weren't punched out properly. On the real pair, it's a bog standard long DoCoMo shell with regular "PK" faceplates and, as you can see, the red film actually shines through.



Spoiler: Holder and Shell







I think the only way to appreciate the form of the fake pair is by calling it "girthy". The removable vent cover that holds the rubber stress relief actually connects like a lego brick instead of clips that open like a door (side note : I also think you can't really remove the stress relief on the fake pair either). Now, look at the state of the K on the fake pair, may not show too well in pictures but it is bloody massive compared to the real pair, of which manages to keep all the letters in-line. The shade of the plastic is also a little different and the button cut out on the fake pair is pretty bad but that about covers the physical differences. 

I don't think I have to say much about the sound differences except the fake pair distorts a massive amount at listenable volumes whilst the real pair is able to sound as great as it should sound.

TL;DR : Fake pair is pretty large vs. the real pair, best way to check for a legit HDD-1 is to flash a light into the driver and seeing if there's a red shine through the holes. 

Hope this helped anyone who was interested in how the "Italian" HDD-1 compares to the real deal.


----------



## buzzyman

Has anyone met such earbuds?  I think this has nothing to do with sony.  There is no mention of such a model in google)).


----------



## furyossa (Feb 15, 2021)

buzzyman said:


> Has anyone met such earbuds?  I think this has nothing to do with sony.  There is no mention of such a model in google)).


According to little girl illustration , you're probably right.  This has nothing to do with Sony.
First, Sony don't use 32ohm driver in MDR-E1XX lineup, also not use MX500 shells.
They have "walkman" series but do not differ much from the original MDR-E model.
For example, this is MDR-E804 regular and "walkman" edition


----------



## buzzyman

furyossa said:


> According to little girl illustration , you're probably right.  This has nothing to do with Sony.
> First, Sony don't use 32ohm driver in MDR-E1XX lineup, also not use MX500 shells.
> They have "walkman" but do not differ much from the original MDR-E model.
> For example, this is MDR-E804 regular and "walkman" edition


32 ohm and mx500 confused me))).  I just wanted to make sure.  Thank you! 👍


----------



## furyossa (Feb 15, 2021)

buzzyman said:


> 32 ohm and mx500 confused me))).  I just wanted to make sure.  Thank you! 👍


Yup. Sony has the highest number of fake models, so this is no wonder, but sometimes the difference is very imperceptible so be careful
https://wolfgangfener.livejournal.com/71103.html


----------



## furyossa (Feb 15, 2021)

This is the little experimentation and measurements test for AKG Y16A.
These buds use 15mm driver and this is the only pair where I can say that the treble is "star of the show" for which AKG is also known.
Treble is not sibilant or harsh but after half hour of listening without foams, I'm starting to notice a mild headache.
Average bass quantity, sub-bass rolled off, mids are neutral, average soundstage and impressive imaging
In this example, we can see the difference with or without foams, with filters and silicone covers.

The shells are made of plastic, and it has very nice curved form which contributes to good comfort.
The driver (with metal mesh) is glued on the shell and the rubber ring is here only to reduce sharpness of the edge.






On this graph we can see how can foams influence the sound (for better). Because of better fit, we have better leveled and low and high and it is also important to note that the full foam protects metal mesh and driver from moisture.
This driver in addition to having a good spec it also shows that it has a good balance between the left and right channel.





For this experiment I bought some chip pair of buds which have a two pair of silicone caps which are great for any 15mm driver size and can be mounted even over foam.
Also, they are not sticky and have a pleasant feeling in the ear
These are *ENERGY SISTEM Style 2+* buds and they can be found in red, blue, yellow and black colors. Build quality is good, and the have well shielded cables.





Anyway ... the sound tuning is bad, and they have channel disbalance (between 1.5kHz and 10kHz) which is standard for this kind of buds.I was a little curious, so I did the measurement for them as well





For this mod I removed stock rubber rings
First I tied this combo. The two wool  filters are placed inside the black foams and mounted on the shell, and then I putt silicone caps over.





Then instead of wool filters I use in the same way paper filters which have a higher density than wool filters.
And finally I tried the following: I removed the paper filters and installed only full foam. Then I put the sponge filter over and pulled on the silicone caps.





Final measurements with all filters are showed on this graph. In conclusion these silicone caps are great if you have problems with fit but as you can see they have a small spike at 1k, and these filters reduces treble peaks very nicely


----------



## buzzyman (Feb 15, 2021)

With these silicone ear tips, we can tune the sound by cutting at different angles.


----------



## furyossa

buzzyman said:


> With these silicone ear tips, we can tune the sound by cutting at different angles.


I have these and also these (14mm), but they are too small for PK and MX500. You can place them on these shells by force, but they block the sound.
Red ones that I showed in previous post use thinner silicon, and they are way bigger and don't touch the metal mesh and allows the sound to pass freely.


----------



## jeejack

Nokia HS 47


----------



## 730user

I bought LG V10. Plays well with 400 ohm graphene and UAPP player. It doesn't play very well with 32 ohm headphones.


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Nokia HS 47


They looks quite interesting. Is this stock cable?


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> They looks quite interesting. Is this stock cable?


No


----------



## earfanatic

jeejack said:


> Nokia HS 47


And what are Your impression of the build?


----------



## rprodrigues (Feb 17, 2021)

Results from some of my DIY tests:

- 150 Ohm transparent film 14.8mm drivers: these are correctly claimed as vocal drivers. For me, they are (too) midcentric (with poor low and high extensions). Skip them!
- 64 Ohm 14.8mm drivers: I don't like them but I don't know exactly why. It is kind they lack (a lot) of clarity. The same happens for the praised 150 Ohm red film set which I had.
- 32 Ohm red film 14.8mm drivers: better overall sound rendering than the 150 ones, but still lack bass response (bass light);
- the famous 19-21 32 Ohm 15.4mm drivers: they are really good drivers. Easily the best SQ/price ratio I know;
- 600Ohm 15.4mm: although some here don't like them, I like the way they sound even though they have poor high extension. Anyway, they aren't worth it due to their high price.


Has anyone already played with any of the following drivers?
- 24 Ohm double unit 15.4mm drivers: It seems that they have "2 speakers ?" per side. It is very interesting.
- 32 Ohm 'bass' 14.8mm drivers: they share the same faceplate as well as the impedance of my Panda PK2s DQSM buds. If they are the same drivers, then they are worth it;
- 300 Ohm 9U and 300 Ohm 12U 15.4mm drivers: I wonder if there is any difference in SQ between these models. I fried my QIGOM White Lotus yesterday, so I need a replacement for them.


----------



## jeejack

earfanatic said:


> And what are Your impression of the build?


They are ok. Balanced sound. Need amp to sound good and loud


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> They are ok. Balanced sound. Need amp to sound good and loud


Did you perhaps take a picture of the driver before replacing the stock cable?


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> Did you perhaps take a picture of the driver before replacing the stock cable?


Now you're asking the real questions 😂

Also, I'll be receiving a Sharp MD MX500 earbud in a few days, I'll be posting photos of their innards if you all are interested. 
My 19-21 pink dot titanium just gave up and distorted on me (probably due to the loose coil wire hitting the diaphragm because it's not properly glued anymore) and I'll probably change the drivers with a 32ohm one with a composite wool diaphragm some day, if the budget allows lol 

I'll also post my 19-21 impressions here once I'm done with another review (I hope it gets done because I get really derailed because of distractions and other projects 😂)


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Now you're asking the real questions


Sorry I'm late  , but he gives very modest answers


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> Sorry I'm late  , but he gives very modest answers


You are right


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> You are right


This is a unique driver for sure. Comfort wise, are they good?


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> This is a unique driver for sure. Comfort wise, are they good?


If you look at it closely, it shares almost the same pcb layout as the 6-pack 130ohm Be plated drivers. Interesting.


----------



## jeejack

They are good. 19 -21 red dot are much better


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> Results from some of my DIY tests:
> 
> - 64 Ohm 14.8mm drivers: I don't like them but I don't know exactly why. It is kind they lack (a lot) of clarity. The same happens for the praised 150 Ohm red film set which I had.



These require more damping than they come with to bring clarity or rather to bring up the upper mids & treble.



rprodrigues said:


> - 32 Ohm red film 14.8mm drivers: better overall sound rendering than the 150 ones, but still lack bass response (bass light);



I haven't tried these. May skip them if they are that bass light. Plus I have my 150Ω red films to keep me happy.


----------



## vygas (Feb 18, 2021)

Just wanted to ask, does MMCX modding a long DoCoMo impact it's sound in anyway? I thought taking the stress relief and slightly opening up a gap that's usually covered on the side might change the sound a little but I just want to double check. I was considering doing an MMCX mod for my friend but kept thinking it might be better if I just re-cable.


----------



## kakaworu

When I bought the TRN BT20s Pro for my earbuds. I found that they can't fit my ears when plugging with my stemless earbuds.
So I draw and printed some shells with stem and they fit really well.










3D printed with PLA






using MMCX.





Yes they fit, and they fit even better than using with cables.


----------



## captione

kakaworu said:


> When I bought the TRN BT20s Pro for my earbuds. I found that they can't fit my ears when plugging with my stemless earbuds.
> So I draw and printed some shells with stem and they fit really well.
> 
> 
> ...


Woah, that's freaking cool! First time seeing a 3D printed shell build here. I honestly wanna invest on a resin printer and do some earbud/IEM shells but maybe in the future 😅


----------



## vygas

rprodrigues said:


> - 24 Ohm double unit 15.4mm drivers: It seems that they have "2 speakers ?" per side. It is very interesting.


ClieOS has used those drivers in a DIY MMCX build that were tuned to his preferences, from what I know about them you have to take their faceplate off and cram them into an MX500 shell and faceplate if you want a similar result to ClieOS' build. Overall, very interested to see if anyone in this thread manages to do a MX760 shell (which I'd imagine would be easier) or even MX500 shell build with this driver.


----------



## earfanatic

Used Nokia HDD-1 arrived. Thank You all for the recommendation.



My investment (~$3) will be turned into a great earbud.


----------



## earfanatic

I had hard time opening buds before. But hey, I didn't know we have an earbud opener tool in the kitchen drawer. 



No joking, it did the job nicely!


----------



## earfanatic

Red film driver shining through:



Seems genuine, measures 143Ohm.


----------



## vygas

rprodrigues said:


> - 24 Ohm double unit 15.4mm drivers: It seems that they have "2 speakers ?" per side. It is very interesting.


ClieOS has used those drivers in a DIY MMCX build that were tuned to his preferences, from what I know about them you have to take their faceplate off and cram them into an MX500 shell and faceplate if you want a similar result to ClieOS' build. Overall, very interested to see if anyone in this thread manages to do a MX760 shell (which I'd imagine would be easier) or even MX500 shell build with this driver.


----------



## vygas

earfanatic said:


> I had hard time opening buds before. But hey, I didn't know we have an earbud opener tool in the kitchen drawer.
> 
> No joking, it did the job nicely!


Yeah, the glue on these buds can be a pain in the ass, might have to try this out on my other pair of stock HDD-1's since I had issues opening up my first pair. Hope you enjoy your pair though   .


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> I had hard time opening buds before. But hey, I didn't know we have an earbud opener tool in the kitchen drawer.
> 
> No joking, it did the job nicely!


This is great.


----------



## endia

vygas said:


> ClieOS has used those drivers in a DIY MMCX build that were tuned to his preferences, from what I know about them you have to take their faceplate off and cram them into an MX500 shell and faceplate if you want a similar result to ClieOS' build. Overall, very interested to see if anyone in this thread manages to do a MX760 shell (which I'd imagine would be easier) or even MX500 shell build with this driver.


it was a popular driver years ago..
i have build two pairs of them into mx760 shells in a regular way. its not easy to fit into mx500 shell if i remember correctly.
it's sound character is very close to 130 ohm beryllium without tuning but 130 ohm is better in almost every aspect for me.
but i didn't bother much about tuning and have no idea about its potential..
and i should say that, it's not average diy job, very sensitive to de/soldering and it's soldering points are much smaller than most drivers.


----------



## rprodrigues (Feb 19, 2021)

@vygas @endia

Thank you.

I will thus skip them because I already have the 130 Ohm beryllium drivers.

@assassin10000

These are my 64 Ohm drivers. It seems  they are the same as yours.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mK5ffjV

I had to remove the original damping material otherwise they wouldn't fit my 14.8mm shells.


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> @assassin10000
> 
> These are my 64 Ohm drivers. It seems  they are the same as yours.
> 
> ...



Ahh, I see. That's probably why it lacks clarity.


----------



## earfanatic

Where can we source docomo shells?
I found no results on ali.


----------



## rprodrigues (Feb 20, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Where can we source docomo shells?
> I found no results on ali.



Try here
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32581904591.html

(thanks to @furyossa)


----------



## earfanatic

rprodrigues said:


> Try here
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32581904591.html
> 
> (thanks to @furyossa)


Thank You both. 
And I finally found one a bit cheaper with unknown driver and more cable:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2047079002.html


----------



## robar

Has anyone tried to put different driver on a jcally ep01 shell? I will probably order one just for curiosity but it would be nice to know if it snaps on mx500 covers for example. An additional back vent with a 19-21 red dot driver could be an interesting project. One of the sales pics wrote 16mm drivers if I remember correctly, so maybe it could work


----------



## jeejack

robar said:


> Has anyone tried to put different driver on a jcally ep01 shell? I will probably order one just for curiosity but it would be nice to know if it snaps on mx500 covers for example. An additional back vent with a 19-21 red dot driver could be an interesting project. One of the sales pics wrote 16mm drivers if I remember correctly, so maybe it could work


I change the shell. Ep01 in MX500 shell same sound signature with more bass.


----------



## vygas

earfanatic said:


> Thank You both.
> And I finally found one a bit cheaper with unknown driver and more cable:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2047079002.html


That one is also just a regular Black DoCoMo from what I remember, I had them send a photo of what the inside looks like and it has the green dot on the epoxy, grid foam on the vents and dots for positive and middle. Chitty's Store and Tribe's Store seem to be the same seller so even those loose DoCoMo units probably have the same drivers.


----------



## vygas

vygas said:


> That one is also just a regular Black DoCoMo from what I remember, I had them send a photo of what the inside looks like and it has the green dot on the epoxy, grid foam on the vents and dots for positive and middle. Chitty's Store and Tribe's Store seem to be the same seller so even those loose DoCoMo units probably have the same drivers.


Also, if you look in Chitty's store description for those cut old style DoCoMo buds, they post a photo of a driver that looks like an SR2/Newer DoCoMo driver in a PK shell, just thought that was something I should mention if you look down there .


----------



## robar

jeejack said:


> I change the shell. Ep01 in MX500 shell same sound signature with more bass.


Nice, thanks for the info! So does it work in reverse too? I mean putting an mx500 style speaker on the ep01 shell without glue.
I see that there is a hole on the top of the ep01 shell. Did you drill it?


----------



## rprodrigues (Feb 21, 2021)

vygas said:


> Also, if you look in Chitty's store description for those cut old style DoCoMo buds, they post a photo of a driver that looks like an SR2/Newer DoCoMo driver in a PK shell, just thought that was something I should mention if you look down there .





vygas said:


> That one is also just a regular Black DoCoMo from what I remember, I had them send a photo of what the inside looks like and it has the green dot on the epoxy, grid foam on the vents and dots for positive and middle. Chitty's Store and Tribe's Store seem to be the same seller so even those loose DoCoMo units probably have the same drivers.



Here they are (from the units I received for order https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32581904591.html):


----------



## jeejack

robar said:


> Nice, thanks for the info! So does it work in reverse too? I mean putting an mx500 style speaker on the ep01 shell without glue.
> I see that there is a hole on the top of the ep01 shell. Did you drill it?


I don't put any speaker in ep01 (bad plastic). Yes i drill it but no change ....


----------



## vygas

rprodrigues said:


> Here they are (from the units I received for order https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32581904591.html):


Same drivers as my pink and white Furukawa cabled pair, which kinda makes me wonder why my other DoCoMo drivers don't have that dot but have similar features. They kinda sound different too, guess the guy who I bought from on Taobao might've done some tuning to them or used different drivers all-together (one of the pairs I have convinced me I might've had a 2nd Cygnus).


----------



## rprodrigues

assassin10000 said:


> These require more damping than they come with to bring clarity or rather to bring up the upper mids & treble.



I've inserted the original damping (foams). Now, It is better but they still lack clarity.

Do you recommend any specific tuning for them (damping placement)?


----------



## subwoof3r

Hey guys, long time no see 👍
Is this recoverable? Or it's dead ? 🙁


----------



## Themilkman46290

subwoof3r said:


> Hey guys, long time no see 👍
> Is this recoverable? Or it's dead ? 🙁


As long as the coil is still good, then yes, I had similar proplem with 19-21, they are extremely fragile
You should be able to glue it back as long as the coil or coil leads are not cut


----------



## subwoof3r

Themilkman46290 said:


> As long as the coil is still good, then yes, I had similar proplem with 19-21, they are extremely fragile
> You should be able to glue it back as long as the coil or coil leads are not cut


Thanks, just gave a try but unfortunately no sound at all with some cyanolite. I think it's dead then, those 19-21 looks very fragile yup 🙁


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> I've inserted the original damping (foams). Now, It is better but they still lack clarity.
> 
> Do you recommend any specific tuning for them (damping placement)?



Not really. Try shrinking or blocking the bass port and/or vents to see how it sounds. It's trial and error.



subwoof3r said:


> Hey guys, long time no see 👍
> Is this recoverable? Or it's dead ? 🙁





Themilkman46290 said:


> As long as the coil is still good, then yes, I had similar proplem with 19-21, they are extremely fragile
> You should be able to glue it back as long as the coil or coil leads are not cut



^ this. 

If the voice coil didn't break just glue or epoxy the board down.


----------



## assassin10000

Yuming store has a new 14.8mm 32Ω titanium driver.


----------



## earfanatic

assassin10000 said:


> Yuming store has a new 14.8mm 32Ω titanium driver.


I might try these. 
When time comes I want to prepare my beloved (rx-1) shell with different drivers. I have just found out the cable is crap. 1.1 Ohm. So it is getting a complete rebuild. I have already ordered the biofibre drivers, and by measure the red film would fit also on the shell.


----------



## vygas (Feb 25, 2021)

I've received 2 more pairs of the HDD-1, planning on just putting the drivers in a "PK" so I can have something's that is relatively close to the PK1, anyone have recommendations for a cheap pair of shells or a cheap PK bud? Also, I found another type of "PK" styled 150ohm driver. It's a lot cheaper than the usual transparent film driver and has different tuning foam and outer ring. I left a link and image in the spoiler below.



Spoiler: Driver Photos + Link





https://a.aliexpress.com/_uhagkh


----------



## captione (Feb 27, 2021)

Just got the Sharp MD!
Not sure if this is even a legitimate pair but it sounds good. Surprising for some decades old earbud. Warm and sparkly, very dynamic.



Seems to be using a driver that is *almost* similar to what the current versions of the EMX500 drivers would use, but with a slightly bigger pcb and vent holes and no colored resin to glue the drivers into the faceplate. Specs says it's 16ohms with 106db sensitivity. Might check the impedance with a multimeter and find out but my kit isn't complete yet.
If you noticed the braided cable, I actually changed back to the J-cable because it's actually affecting the sound of the right side, bad wiring or soldering perhaps? I am definitely not the right guy to judge bad soldering tho 😂
So I changed back to the J-cable, because I'd rather have a coherent sound.



Spoiler: Drivers for comparison



*Sharp MD Driver(16ohms):*



*EMX500 Driver (32ohms):*






The surprising thing about the tuning of this driver is that it uses a full circular tuning cotton and paired with a thicker-than-normal crecent horseshoe foam. I felt a bit of imbalance on mine and a bit of loose bass so I did some retuning attempts. Got some good results in the end.

*Picture of driver in stock tuning* (I already removed the tuning cotton, but I guess you get the point):






Spoiler: Tuning attempts in order



*Attempt 1* _is putting a full horseshoe foam + a foam on the lips where coil hole/vent is also placed to cover it properly:_



This result gave me the same warm sound but with lesser bass and sparkle, which didn't sound like the stock form.

*Attempt 2 *_is putting back the thick horseshoe foam + a cutout of a tuning cotton to cover the vents that didn't cover the other holes + foam on lips where the coil is also positioned:_




This got me back to the same sound except it got a bit brighter, also sensed an imbalance so it might be because I didn't removed the stock foams properly.

*The final attempt* _is putting a normal crescent horseshoe foam + same cutouts of tuning cotton and the foam on the lip. _
It gave me the closest rendition of the stock sound without the imbalance, bass got tighter too! Sorry I didn't add a picture here because I started listening to some music with it afterwards 



_edit: fixed some words and added some stuff_


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Just got the Sharp MD!
> Not sure if this is even a legitimate pair but it sounds good. Surprising for some decades old earbud. Warm and sparkly, very dynamic.
> 
> Seems to be using a driver that is *almost* similar to what the current versions of the EMX500 drivers would use, but with a slightly bigger pcb and vent holes and no colored resin to glue the drivers into the faceplate. Specs says it's 16ohms with 106db sensitivity. Might check the impedance with a multimeter and find out but my kit isn't complete yet.
> ...


Yup. Is not so different from newer driver, but I also noticed that old drivers have more pronounced treble than drivers that we use these days


----------



## furyossa (Feb 27, 2021)

Two 3D printed couplers, FDM (black) and DLP (light gray) for DAYTON IMM-6.
I need to use file to widen the opening where the microphone passes, because I forgot to make a small offset 
However, I am satisfied with how it looks, the whole idea is to simulate the ear canal
If someone is interested I can post *.STL file


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Two 3D printed couplers, FDM (black) and DLP (light gray) for DAYTON IMM-6.
> I need to use file to widen the opening where the microphone passes, because I forgot to make a small offset
> However, I am satisfied with how it looks, the whole idea is to simulate the ear canal
> If someone is interested I can post *.STL file


Nice work! Can you share some measurements with us as well?


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> Nice work! Can you share some measurements with us as well?


Yes of course. U can use STL file for 3D print. I used dimensions from these images and tried to match similar form like these yellow scans


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Yes of course. U can use STL file for 3D print. I used dimensions from these images and tried to match similar form like these yellow scans


I meant sound measurements! But these are also interesting.


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> I meant sound measurements! But these are also interesting.


Oh ... I thought you were interested in a 3D model.   
I mentioned in a previous post that I need to widen the opening where the microphone passes.
The STL file is corrected but printed version need manual fixing. When I have free time I will do some measurements


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Oh ... I thought you were interested in a 3D model.
> I mentioned in a previous post that I need to widen the opening where the microphone passes.
> The STL file is corrected but printed version need manual fixing. When I have free time I will do some measurements


Right. 😊
What I actually want to know if one can measure small changes in tuning with a setup like yours. Like covering holes. This way even a series of changes could be done quite quickly to find out the right amount of foam or thickness. Or a rule of thumb to reach desired target curve. I like this idea but the measurement setup should be repeatable.


----------



## vygas

Hi everyone, finally made the build I've been wanting to make for a while. The PK3minus2, a PK3 shell with a PK1 driver.



Spoiler: The PK3minus2







For some context to why I did this build, I hate the PK3. I thought it was one of the worst earbuds in my collection, I've heard rumors that newer pairs with the grey text weren't produced by Yuin themselves and ended up just being whatever they had left put together, consequently having worse QC. So when I found out about the HDD-1 and it's driver, I thought it would be a no brainer to make my own PK1 out of it. Overall, very satisfied with this build, now this "PK3" is finally a contender for my rotation .


----------



## vygas (Feb 28, 2021)

Also, thought this might help, the drivers listed on aliexpress as the "32ohm bass unit" seem to be the same as the drivers in my Panda PK2. I put the photos of the driver and link to the drivers in the spoiler below.



Spoiler: Driver Photos




Listing : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32877041035.html



I initially thought that these were the same driver as the HS-23 due to the faceplates and impedance but that doesn't Nokia driver, at least from the images I've seen, doesn't have the same green dot as both of those images do. It might be possible that these drivers are also just a 32ohm driver from the long black DoCoMo bud. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd need to get a pair of HS-23's to confirm that. Anyways, since the Panda PK2 is pretty hard to find nowadays, I feel like these are a good way to compensate for it.


----------



## furyossa

vygas said:


> Also, thought this might help, the drivers listed on aliexpress as the "32ohm bass unit" seem to be the same as the drivers in my Panda PK2. I put the photos of the driver and link to the drivers in the spoiler below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


NiceHCK EBX OG has the similar hard plastic glossy cover type. Then this driver came up, and I bought two pairs and like you, I also thought it was an EBX driver, but I was wrong. It is much inferior to the EBX model


----------



## vygas

furyossa said:


> NiceHCK EBX OG has the similar hard plastic glossy cover type. Then this driver came up, and I bought two pairs and like you, I also thought it was an EBX driver, but I was wrong. It is much inferior to the EBX model


Hopefully I can get my HS-23 soon enough and compare between my Panda PK2 and some other buds, that driver is also pretty decent but I can only imagine what the OG EBX sounds like


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> NiceHCK EBX OG has the similar hard plastic glossy cover type. Then this driver came up, and I bought two pairs and like you, I also thought it was an EBX driver, but I was wrong. It is much inferior to the EBX model


Speaking of those similarly designed faceplates, I think you'll find these drivers interesting. Uses a foster-type driver instead of the usual Yuin ones.
https://shopee.ph/1-Pair-14.2mm-DIY...dance-Earbuds-Accessori-i.64655310.6040319463


----------



## furyossa (Feb 28, 2021)

captione said:


> Speaking of those similarly designed faceplates, I think you'll find these drivers interesting. Uses a foster-type driver instead of the usual Yuin ones.
> https://shopee.ph/1-Pair-14.2mm-DIY...dance-Earbuds-Accessori-i.64655310.6040319463


You mean these
I use it already here
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/page-100#post-15468966
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/page-110#post-15534569

As I said, these are probably used for NiceHCK EB2 and not for OG EBX


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> You mean these
> I use it already here
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/page-100#post-15468966
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/page-110#post-15534569
> ...


Oh, my bad! Just found these drivers when I was scrolling through listings. 
Looks like an interesting driver for sure. Do think it'll sound good once it's tuned properly? I was planning to buy an EB2 and since it's not available anymore, maybe this is a good chance to try its sound.


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Oh, my bad! Just found these drivers when I was scrolling through listings.
> Looks like an interesting driver for sure. Do think it'll sound good once it's tuned properly? I was planning to buy an EB2 and since it's not available anymore, maybe this is a good chance to try its sound.


Nothing special you can skip them


----------



## endia (Mar 2, 2021)

vygas said:


> Also, thought this might help, the drivers listed on aliexpress as the "32ohm bass unit" seem to be the same as the drivers in my Panda PK2. I put the photos of the driver and link to the drivers in the spoiler below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


just got the hs-23 from a local seller.. they have one blue and one orange dot instead of two purple but the rest looks same (first three images).. the last three images are from 'black docomo long stem'.


----------



## vygas (Mar 2, 2021)

endia said:


> just got the hs-23 from a local seller.. they have one blue and one orange dot instead of two purple but the rest looks same (first three images).. the last three images are from 'black docomo long stem'.


The colour of the dots on the sides of the drivers doesn't matter too much, I've have multiple drivers from the same bud with different coloured dots yet sounded the same. But, that green dot on the HS-23 interests me since the photo I saw had no dot. What is the Serial Code for the HS-23? The photos of the one I have are from the 386xxxx model and look like this :



Spoiler: Images of driver







(credit : https://www.facebook.com/groups/EarbudsAnonymous/permalink/1864639877130871)



The person who posted those photos said the drivers that aren't from that serial code have no bass but I'm still waiting on my pair and potentially a 2nd pair that may have the driver that he's mentioning.


----------



## 730user (Mar 3, 2021)

I collected speakers from Nokia and Siemens headsets - 16 ohms and 32 ohms. This is PK3 PK2. They played well. But the new speakers from the Chinese play better. Any Chinese headphones more expensive than $ 10-15 play better.


----------



## endia (Mar 3, 2021)

vygas said:


> The colour of the dots on the sides of the drivers doesn't matter too much, I've have multiple drivers from the same bud with different coloured dots yet sounded the same. But, that green dot on the HS-23 interests me since the photo I saw had no dot. What is the Serial Code for the HS-23? The photos of the one I have are from the 386xxxx model and look like this :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


@vygas, thanks for the info;
i was thought that color dots are unique for the driver or something distinctive sign for tuning..
i bought two units, one came with 350xxx, another with 386xxx. the above photos are from the 350 one. it was not difficult to detach the driver from the shell, but i couldn't open the 386 version with my hand. will try later with hair dryer.. so i can compare them head to head after recabling both..


----------



## endia

@vygas, opened the 386xxx version.. looks exactly same except the black line instead of green dot..


----------



## vygas

endia said:


> @vygas, opened the 386xxx version.. looks exactly same except the black line instead of green dot..


Same type of line that you would also find on a Nokia HDD-1 driver, would be pretty interesting if all of the drivers used by Yuin were actually the ones with the line marks but that's just me speculating with no real evidence. Eitherway, I'm interested in your thoughts on how both sound.


----------



## earfanatic

vygas said:


> Same type of line that you would also find on a Nokia HDD-1 driver, would be pretty interesting if all of the drivers used by Yuin were actually the ones with the line marks but that's just me speculating with no real evidence. Eitherway, I'm interested in your thoughts on how both sound.


We should take photos and show it to a graphologist, to analize if it was marked by the same person or ink.


----------



## vygas (Mar 6, 2021)

Hello everyone, I was talking with one of my friends about the OP139 which recently went out of stock and sacrificed my pair for a peek into the PCB and what driver it is. Sadly, they need a re-coil but we got a good peak at the Foster drivers that were in there. Pictures are in the spoiler below :



Spoiler: OP139 Driver







I was also looking into where I could find these drivers and I ended up finding both a graph and a link to where you can buy the driver that's used in the OP139 (and the OP139 itself). So if anyone missed out on getting a pair of OP139's, you have an alternative to either make your own (with a similar shell) or buy one directly. Only caveat of this is that you have to use a Taobao agent if you live outside of areas where Taobao can ship, but I feel like the price pays off once you other listings for cheap drivers, shells and cables. I left the links and the graph here (as well as an edit) :



Spoiler: Graph and Links






Sorry for the bad quality photo of the graph (Red OP139 and Green MX500), the Taobao page didn't let me save the image properly, here's the links to the driver and to the OP139 itself.

Edit : The link to the drivers actually seems to be a 16ohm variant that you can choose between 3 batch codes, not 100% sure if they will sound the same as the OP139 itself but I'd say it's just better to get the OP139 itself just to be safe.



Hope everyone here has a good weekend and rest of their day .


----------



## captione (Mar 6, 2021)

vygas said:


> Hello everyone, I was talking with one of my friends about the OP139 which recently went out of stock and sacrificed my pair for a peek into the PCB and what driver it is. Sadly, they need a re-coil but we got a good peak at the Foster drivers that were in there. Pictures are in the spoiler below :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I almost thought the OP139 uses these particular drivers 



Spoiler: Picture








, but the vent holes and shapes from their promotional picture really hints to a Foster type driver. Kinda sad that they're out of stock now.

Also if you look closely, the graphs from the OP139 actually matches a bit from what we've seen on the 19-21 info and descriptions.


----------



## captione (Mar 8, 2021)

*19-21 Drivers: Impressions/Comparisons and Findings*

Well, if you guys know, this comparison is long overdue LOL. 
A bit of background:
So for the past months, I've been tracking and collecting the big solder "19-21s", from any possible local seller listings. So far I have only collected 4 variants (the other ones won't matter sound profile-wise, as you'll find out), which is 2 normal ones (32ohms red and green dot) and the titanium plated ones (64ohms black dot and 32ohms pink dot). I've been trying to collect my thoughts and impressions about them but I got a bit sidetracked and don't know what I'm supposed to do next. Until @vygas posted his findings about the OP139's big solder drivers and his finds on Taobao, so I digged a bit deeper about the particular drivers because IDK, it's a really interesting rabbit hole!

Some finds I gathered:

I found an Alibaba manufacturer that makes and sells a buncha 15.4mm drivers in bulk, including the big solders. This is where all the findings and info for those big solder drivers came from. They're called _"__Shenzhen Haoyun Electro-Acoustic Co., Ltd.
 Trading Company"_. They even OEM those MX760 Fosters that were featured in ShoonTH earbuds, including a titanium plated version!


So these _newer_ 19-21 drivers were labelled as fake, according to the taobao seller of the OP139s that vygas linked. It seems that manufacturers like Haoyun, (not sure if there are other ones) were copying the likeness of the old 15.4mm Foster big solder drivers found in early Senn MX500s and Kenwood/Sharp earbuds with a different shell where actually, the unusual OP139 shells were derived from, according to this taobao listing of the drivers of those (which also counts as a "science thread" according to the google translation).
As far as reading the translated writings, I feel like the person is right but at the same time, feels like a nostalgic angst and banter over a rare, out-of-production Foster drivers from the 2000's against its fakes lol. You could read about the history of the Foster drivers there, but please take it with a grain of salt because yeah, it's just translated. Maybe my impressions on its writing and validity aren't as accurate as I think.
I also found out that the big solders were actually one of the first variants of them Foster drivers _according to the taobao seller,_ being the first variant of the Sennheiser MX500 released in 2002, and production of this variant ending in 2004, changing the PCB as the typical Foster drivers we know today (PCB extended from coil vent, 2 solder dot with small solder points) till the end of Senn MX500 production. The seller also stated that those small dot drivers were inferior to the big solder, sound, build and production-wise. I personally think they're just both horrible in their newest forms when modding (especially when removing its faceplate and the durability of the epoxy used LOL). They also stated that the OP139s are the most accurate representation of those OG big solders.
Now with that aside, if you look at Haoyun's listing of the big solder drivers they made, it seems that they make the green, pink and those red dots in beryllium and graphene cones with different faceplate options. What's weird is I don't see any black dot 64ohms Ti in their list, so that will probably remain a mystery for now....
The red dot plated cones variants actually graphs just the same as the normal red dot in that listing. The graphs on the Be and Graphene are a bit skewed and weird but still translate to the graphs I saw on the normal red dot. Maybe the nuances are different, but you could still guess the overall sound profile with the graphs provided. Only the sensitivity of those cone plated are different @103db vs normal 98db.

Now for the impressions! Now with graphs from the driver manufacturer!! (_disclaimer_: tuned with normal cresent horseshoe foams on shells and I assure you, it actually reflects the graphs!)

*1. Normal Red dot 32 ohms*
Overall sound profile is very warm and balanced. Good bass extension, smooth until the highs. Good for chill sessions IMO.


Spoiler: Picture and Graph













*2. Green dot 32 ohms*
Basically a leaner, less bassy version of the Red dot. If you look at the graphs, they basically share the same graph execpt the green dots have lesser bass extension, although still present and more tighter to me IMO. Might be sibilant because of its leaner presentation.


Spoiler: Picture and Graph












*3. Pink dot 32 ohms Ti-Plated Diaphragm*
The most v-shaped of all variants, just look at the graphs. Good bass and warmth amount and a more sparkly treble. Very energetic and dynamic among all of the big solders I own here, too bad I broke mine... If you're gonna buy these *don't buy the metal mesh version to save you from reshelling it to fit into MX500 shells. *I assure you, it will save you money and time if you find their normal MX500 faceplate versions.


Spoiler: Picture and Graph











*4. Black dot 64ohms Ti-Plated Diaphragm*
No graphs shown but just imagine the heightened 20-500hz of the Pink dot but with a more linear or lesser highs from the 5khz-10khz that is present in the other 32ohm big solders. Dark and smooth, almost intimate but the most non-fatiguing of them all! Very good sub bass and mids compared to those other mention IMO.


Spoiler: Picture









Man, this was a wild ride to a rabbit hole. I hope this info helps others!
Personally for me, I think those 4 that I mentioned are the ones that definitely worth collecting and provides a different signature for each. Maybe add the OP139 too for the ultimate big solder collection 

Thank you for reading!

_edit: fixed the bugged number list and some formatting... kinda made this @ 4am without sleep, forgive me _


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> *19-21 Drivers: Impressions/Comparisons and Findings*
> 
> Well, if you guys know, this comparison is long overdue LOL.
> A bit of background:
> ...


This is a really great presentation with a lot of information
Thanks for sharing this.


----------



## captione (Mar 8, 2021)

furyossa said:


> This is a really great presentation with a lot of information
> Thanks for sharing this.


Thank you!

Also, I'll also add that the 15.4mm strong magnet (N5x) drivers and the high impedance drivers available in shops today were all made by a manufacturer named *Elfinear*. The listing includes the N5x drivers (32ohm blue epoxy, red resin & 64ohm normal and Be cone variant), 68ohm Graphene, 130ohms Be, 150ohms bass and vocal variant, 300ohms*, 400 ohms, 500ohms and the 600ohms.
https://elfinear.m.en.alibaba.com/p...true&channel=minisite_a2706.wshop_plgr.114.i2

Petition to call those drivers Elfinears just to make it less confusing? 😆


----------



## coflaes

captione said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Also, I'll also add that the 15.4mm strong magnet (N5x) drivers and the high impedance drivers available in shops today were all made by a manufacturer named *Elfinear*. The listing includes the N5x drivers (32ohm blue epoxy, red resin & 64ohm normal and Be cone variant), 68ohm Graphene, 130ohms Be, 150ohms bass and vocal variant, 300ohms*, 400 ohms, 500ohms and the 600ohms.
> https://elfinear.m.en.alibaba.com/p...true&channel=minisite_a2706.wshop_plgr.114.i2
> ...


im not sure they are really made by "elfinear"


----------



## vygas

coflaes said:


> im not sure they are really made by "elfinear"


I mean, it's the closest we've really been to finding the maker of those drivers so I'd like to believe they're at least one of the companies that makes those drivers. Plus with Alibaba, you're usually dealing with the factories that make the product rather than a vendor like NSC Audio Store.


----------



## captione

coflaes said:


> im not sure they are really made by "elfinear"


Yeah, actually I had my doubts but if you look at their driver listing, for example, the 64ohms 15.4mm, you could see that almost 80+ suppliers are offering them and sourcing that particular drivers to Elfinears. As @vygas said, with Alibaba, you're usually directly dealing with the factory themselves. 

I might make an Alibaba account and dig deeper, because it's honestly much better to stay skeptical... I'll dig and post more findings soon


----------



## jeejack

Smabat M2 pro stock driver it's awesome. The bass is punchy and controled, treble are crystal clear and mids are so good. They sound better on NW-A55 than Fiio M9.


----------



## vygas

Finally, I got my hands on a pair of Siemens SL-45. These old DoCoMo shelled buds use PK2 drivers and are pretty damn punchy when it comes to bass with this shell, I need to still buy some pairs of the very odd small vent 16ohm drivers that the PK2 uses but for now I am only missing the two different generations of HS-23's (PK3 driver). Planning on putting a different jack on them but they're fine for now. 



Spoiler: Pictures of SL-45







Hope everyone here had/has a good monday  .


----------



## 730user

Will such a cable fit into a mx500 case? Without mmx.
https://aliexpress.ru/item/40013203...56.43.f00581d8tmbl5A&sku_id=10000015705642556


----------



## captione

730user said:


> Will such a cable fit into a mx500 case? Without mmx.
> https://aliexpress.ru/item/40013203...56.43.f00581d8tmbl5A&sku_id=10000015705642556


It'll fit with a bit of grease, elbow or oil 
But I think if the stem hole isn't bigger than 2mm (since there's alot of MX500 shell variants in the wild), you might have to straighten the wires entering from the driver cavity and use a buckle to secure them.


----------



## jeejack (Mar 18, 2021)

My DIY 8-paks  and 400ohm earbuds. I see in NSC Audio Store on aliexpress are two 400 ohm drivers. One of them are graphene. I took the other one. They are the same in SQ? The 8 packs are so good and have awesome highs. What do I gain if I make a hole in the MX500 shell? I honestly would like more bass


----------



## jeejack

Someone who has the 130 ohm beryllium driver in the MX500 shell can tell me how he tuned it?


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> Someone who has the 130 ohm beryllium driver in the MX500 shell can tell me how he tuned it?


I have one with a y6 paper on the yolk, 7:1 mm black foam on the housing a 0.8 mm hole directly behind the driver.
Another is with a y6 on the yolk and a regular black foam on the housing, with 2 0.5mm holes in the bass port (opening the bass port)


----------



## jeejack (Mar 19, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> I have one with a y6 paper on the yolk, 7:1 mm black foam on the housing a 0.8 mm hole directly behind the driver.
> Another is with a y6 on the yolk and a regular black foam on the housing, with 2 0.5mm holes in the bass port (opening the bass port)


Thank you ! What tuning option has more bass and where is bass port ? You have a pictures of the second tuning mod ?


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> I have one with a y6 paper on the yolk, 7:1 mm black foam on the housing a 0.8 mm hole directly behind the driver.
> Another is with a y6 on the yolk and a regular black foam on the housing, with 2 0.5mm holes in the bass port (opening the bass port)


I see in your signature that you have also 400 ohm! How do you tuned ?


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> Thank you ! What tuning option has more bass and where is bass port ? You have a pictures of the second tuning mod ?


Yeah, if you louk at my posts in this thread, I've made some posts with my mods
But I wouldn't call them bassy, they are pretty bright but they keep there sub bass and enough bass
I would send a pic, but wife has them right now
And unfortunately I have deleted from my phone
If you want warmer then you could try a 1.5mm hole or drill out the bass port completely
It's the sealed tube/ hole on the mx500 shell next to the cable tube/hole


----------



## jeejack

I understand now ! Thank you !


----------



## beanxinh

My new DIY bud using 600ohm berrylium coated driver and brass shell. In the last few months I have tried a few driver and shell configuration (which I'll upload picture later) and this have the best sounding of all. Very details sound, a bit on the dry side. Bass is not boomy but very deep.
The only downside is that it is very uncomfortable. I can't wear it continuously more than 1 hour. I think I will change back to mx500 shell


----------



## beanxinh

This using a tesla driver with a metal shell. No matter what I do the sound always seem off. I tried close the back went, add more vents but the bass alway seem off. I tried other driver but the results were the same.



This is a co axial driver. Due to the driver size only wooden shell can fit it. The sound is quite good. A little bit on the mellow size. The only issue is that I don't know how to properly utilize the coaxial driver since it facing back  toward the shell. I guess originally this driver is intended for a difference form of shell and not for earbud.



This is the 400ohm berrylium coated driver. It is much cheaper than the 600ohm driver (15$ vs 40$) but have almost the same sound signature only a little bit less detailed than the 600ohm driver. This is the driver with best p/p in my opinion. It can trade blow with earbuds in the 200$ price bracket.


----------



## jeejack

beanxinh said:


> This using a tesla driver with a metal shell. No matter what I do the sound always seem off. I tried close the back went, add more vents but the bass alway seem off. I tried other driver but the results were the same.
> 
> This is a co axial driver. Due to the driver size only wooden shell can fit it. The sound is quite good. A little bit on the mellow size. The only issue is that I don't know how to properly utilize the coaxial driver since it facing back  toward the shell. I guess originally this driver is intended for a difference form of shell and not for earbud.
> 
> This is the 400ohm berrylium coated driver. It is much cheaper than the 600ohm driver (15$ vs 40$) but have almost the same sound signature only a little bit less detailed than the 600ohm driver. This is the driver with best p/p in my opinion. It can trade blow with earbuds in the 200$ price bracket.


In the picture it looks like the 600 ohm one. I haven't heard of 400 ohm beryllium.


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> In the picture it looks like the 600 ohm one. I haven't heard of 400 ohm beryllium.


There is one marked 400 beryllium, but I bought it and I think it maybe I typo on the sellers part, seemed the same


----------



## beanxinh (Mar 20, 2021)

This is the 600ohm
https://shopee.vn/product/69887650/7720813475?smtt=0.192522481-1616224253.9

Anh this is the 400ohm



https://shopee.vn/product/69887650/2260096051?smtt=0.192522481-1616224226.9
Yeah @jeejack correct, I mislabeled the picture because I swap the 400ohm and 600ohm many time in different shell while trying to tune the sound.
Anyway my comment on their sound remain the same. The 400ohm have the best p/p.
Edit: after I read the link description it said that the 400ohm driver coated in Graphene. Not sure what happened because when I purchased 6 months ago the seller told me that it is Berrylium coated.


----------



## Themilkman46290

beanxinh said:


> This is the 600ohm
> https://shopee.vn/product/69887650/7720813475?smtt=0.192522481-1616224253.9
> 
> Anh this is the 400ohm
> ...


Yes, I bought them also, wanted to compared them to my 400ohm graphene but then realized there was no difference. 
I agree with you, the 400ohm is the best of these drivers, I would say the 400ohm, 130ohm, then the composite 64ohm ti are my favorite 3


----------



## 730user (Mar 20, 2021)

Graphene 400 Ohm is my priority with the lg v10 smartphone. Yes, the sound is better with a transistor amplifier. But that's okay. With 32 ohm headphones, the sound is not great. Berrillium 130 ohm with lg v10 is too bright.

Plays well like this: Lg + Tidal + UsbAuduoPlayerPro + graphene 400


----------



## jeejack

In NSC Audio Store on aliexpress both 400 ohm drivers are the same but with different name


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yes, I bought them also, wanted to compared them to my 400ohm graphene but then realized there was no difference.
> I agree with you, the 400ohm is the best of these drivers, I would say the 400ohm, 130ohm, then the composite 64ohm ti are my favorite 3


My next purchaise 64 ohm ti and 19-21 khz ti ( pink dot). I like the other 19-21 khz that i have (red dot)


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> My next purchaise 64 ohm ti and 19-21 khz ti ( pink dot). I like the other 19-21 khz that i have (red dot)


The 19-21 are pretty fun, but so far I've bought 12 pairs and most of them died, I guess my sources are too powerful for them, the 64ohm 19-21 is my favourite so far but started to rattle like crazy after a few days of listening 
The 64ohm ti had a couple version, I got the  "composite" ones that costed about 12 dollars, they have crazy amount of sub bass, I was surprised, and the rest of the frequency range is pretty good, definitely give them a try


----------



## beanxinh (Mar 20, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yes, I bought them also, wanted to compared them to my 400ohm graphene but then realized there was no difference.
> I agree with you, the 400ohm is the best of these drivers, I would say the 400ohm, 130ohm, then the composite 64ohm ti are my favorite 3


Could you send the link for the two drivers that you mention? I can't find it on this thread. Thank
On other note I have bought these three driver last month but due to my health I still haven't put them on.
- 120 ohm Berrylium coated, I'm not sure if it is the one that you guy mentioned.
https://shopee.vn/product/69887650/9501526193?smtt=0.192522481-1616235673.9
- 32ohm titan coated. I think I have bought it but I can't find it on my accounts history so I bought them again. I have bought a titan driver but it sound quite underwhelmed
https://shopee.vn/product/69887650/6767027808?smtt=0.192522481-1616235617.9
- Composite film. This one look interesting. IIRC the earpod also have Composite driver like this.
https://shopee.vn/product/69887650/9210608832?smtt=0.192522481-1616235735.9


----------



## Themilkman46290

beanxinh said:


> Could you send the link for the two drivers that you mention? I can't find it on this thread. Thank
> On other note I have bought these three driver last month but due to my health I still haven't put them on.
> - 120 ohm Berrylium coated, I'm not sure if it is the one that you guy mentioned.
> https://shopee.vn/product/69887650/9501526193?smtt=0.192522481-1616235673.9
> ...


I would skip the 120ohm beryllium, too mid focused, no high treble, too dark, I guess if you didn't like treble it's a great driver


----------



## beanxinh

Themilkman46290 said:


> I would skip the 120ohm beryllium, too mid focused, no high treble, too dark, I guess if you didn't like treble it's a great driver


Sadly it already on my hand. Base on your description it like exactly the yuin pk1. It may suit the genres of music we often listen to in east asia (focus on female vocal).


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> The 19-21 are pretty fun, but so far I've bought 12 pairs and most of them died, I guess my sources are too powerful for them, the 64ohm 19-21 is my favourite so far but started to rattle like crazy after a few days of listening
> The 64ohm ti had a couple version, I got the  "composite" ones that costed about 12 dollars, they have crazy amount of sub bass, I was surprised, and the rest of the frequency range is pretty good, definitely give them a try


You have 64 ohm 19-22 on mx500 mmcx ? If yes maybe the wires are to long and touch the driver.


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Mar 20, 2021)

beanxinh said:


> Sadly it already on my hand. Base on your description it like exactly the yuin pk1. It may suit the genres of music we often listen to in east asia (focus on female vocal).


Makes sense, I have wondered why they make such drivers, I guess the 600ohm would be amazing in that genres, I wasn't able to get a very good treble response from it either. Wasn't as bad as the 120ohm but I felt disappointed with it after reading so many people praise it, do you have some songs from that genre that you would use for testing?
Curious to here what it sounds like, for testing voices I figure it must be good.


----------



## beanxinh

Themilkman46290 said:


> Makes sense, I have wondered why they make such drivers, I guess the 600ohm would be amazing in that genres, I wasn't able to get a very good treble response from it either. Wasn't as bad as the 120ohm but I felt disappointed with it after reading so many people praise it, do you have some songs from that genre that you would use for testing?
> Curious to here what it sounds like, for testing voices I figure it must be good.


You can try songs from Teresa Teng and Yao Si Ting or Mayumi Itsuwa.


----------



## Themilkman46290

beanxinh said:


> You can try songs from Teresa Teng and Yao Si Ting or Mayumi Itsuwa.


Thanks, I will check them out a bit later


----------



## coflaes

Themilkman46290 said:


> The 19-21 are pretty fun, but so far I've bought 12 pairs and most of them died, I guess my sources are too powerful for them, the 64ohm 19-21 is my favourite so far but started to rattle like crazy after a few days of listening
> The 64ohm ti had a couple version, I got the  "composite" ones that costed about 12 dollars, they have crazy amount of sub bass, I was surprised, and the rest of the frequency range is pretty good, definitely give them a tty





Themilkman46290 said:


> The 19-21 are pretty fun, but so far I've bought 12 pairs and most of them died, I guess my sources are too powerful for them, the 64ohm 19-21 is my favourite so far but started to rattle like crazy after a few days of listening
> The 64ohm ti had a couple version, I got the  "composite" ones that costed about 12 dollars, they have crazy amount of sub bass, I was surprised, and the rest of the frequency range is pretty good, definitely give them a try


Hi, can you please link the 12 dollars composite driver? Thank u


----------



## Themilkman46290

I can't for some reason but I can add a printscreen

It's a bit more then 12 now, but it goes on sale, I bought from nsc audio store


----------



## jeejack (Mar 20, 2021)

Damn, i love 130ohm beryllium and 400 ohm drivers. They are so good. I forgot about Smabat M2 pro with ST10s black/gold driver 150 ohm


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Damn, i love 130ohm beryllium and 400 ohm drivers. They are so good. I forgot about Smabat M2 pro with ST10s black/gold driver 150 ohm


Welcome to the club of 130Ω & 400Ω driver lovers 
These are affordable, nice sounding drivers with great potential.


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> Welcome to the club of 130Ω & 400Ω driver lovers
> These are affordable, nice sounding drivers with great potential.


Thank you bro ! I will buy again to put in another shell like you do with 130 ohm beryllium driver


----------



## earfanatic

Postman been here
After a long wait, I have my cables. Cant wait to try these.




The Yincrow is for fun. I never had one of those before.
The cable is Alpinchun LC-OFC cable. I really like the L-plug and the cable is flexible.



This is the wool driver that I will try in an RX-1 shell if it fits. Funny in the description is either 14.4 and 14.2mm, and white grill.
Mine came in black grill. Also the letters are different on the two and it looks like it was soldered before.
One mark is "8B N6" the other is "6V51" whatever it means.




To be continued...


----------



## captione

Didn't noticed that the shell I used on my 130ohms were those weird MX500 ones that has a smaller vent and a different cavity configuration.
I don't wanna bother changing because the sound is just REALLY good as it is. near neutral sound with just a good amount of darkness and the soundstage makes it feel like a full sized headphone, it rocks!!!


earfanatic said:


> Postman been here
> After a long wait, I have my cables. Cant wait to try these.
> 
> 
> ...



Those drivers looks like what I saw on Apple earpods... Interesting to see those in different forms!


----------



## irv003

recabled a gold old shozy cygnus lately


----------



## jeejack

captione said:


> Didn't noticed that the shell I used on my 130ohms were those weird MX500 ones that has a smaller vent and a different cavity configuration.
> I don't wanna bother changing because the sound is just REALLY good as it is. near neutral sound with just a good amount of darkness and the soundstage makes it feel like a full sized headphone, it rocks!!!
> 
> 
> Those drivers looks like what I saw on Apple earpods... Interesting to see those in different forms!


What weird MX500 shell ? I want to build another earbud with 130 ohm driver.


----------



## captione

jeejack said:


> What weird MX500 shell ? I want to build another earbud with 130 ohm driver.


Specifically this shell (new one in the picture) :




The shell I used on my 130ohms build was from my VE Monk Plus Smoke version. Didn't know that they'd use this kind of shell, too bad it sounded so dull in it, I might buy a pair and use a normal MX500 shell to see if I can get a better effect, and some people have been reporting different sound in different shell versions of the VE MONK Plus too! 

Also about that picture, I might make a post tackling the New and Old versions of the "DIY TC200" here and what I found. Maybe some of you might be interested and make a pair for yourselves now that the old version is nearly out of reach...


----------



## jeejack

Love to hear your thoughts about TC200. Fortunately I have the old one


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Love to hear your thoughts about TC200. Fortunately I have the old one


Same here. I don't think that the difference in sound is noticeable only because of the small difference in these MX500 shells. 
For me TC200 is an average sounding driver, just slightly better than EMX500. Currently, my favorite Tingo model is TG-38s, and it's a step above the TC200


----------



## earfanatic

captione said:


> Those drivers looks like what I saw on Apple earpods... Interesting to see those in different forms!


Indeed, they say it is the same driver.


----------



## earfanatic

They are brothers and sisters now... 





Front left is RX-1 shell with wool or biofibre drivers. Full foams now.
Has rumble, and lots of treble detail. Quite V shaped but somewhat relaxed sound. Good for movies, not for vocals.
The grill is like a car rim, it is very open. I am doing to experiment with that to tame the hights a bit.
For now I put a 10mm diamater felt circle under the foams. Still has emhasised hights but it is better now.
I dont know why i WANT to like this. I write about later when I spent more time with it.

The front right is the Nokia HDD1 recabled.
The cable hardly fit in the strain relief. But it will be okay. 

Back buds are only decoration.


----------



## jeejack (Mar 24, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Same here. I don't think that the difference in sound is noticeable only because of the small difference in these MX500 shells.
> For me TC200 is an average sounding driver, just slightly better than EMX500. Currently, my favorite Tingo model is TG-38s, and it's a step above the TC200


And that's how I'm going to get another pair of earbuds .
Edit : But I can't find it on aliexpress


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> And that's how I'm going to get another pair of earbuds .
> Edit : But I can't find it on aliexpress


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32435966900.html


----------



## jeejack

Any thoughts about this driver from NSC Audio store ?


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> Any thoughts about this driver from NSC Audio store ?


Great driver, fairly balanced,  the bass is a wee bit light but with proper tuning I was able to get it to a nice level (using tubing in an mx500 shell)


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> Great driver, fairly balanced,  the bass is a wee bit light but with proper tuning I was able to get it to a nice level (using tubing in an mx500 shell)


Thx ! Love your diy projects


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> Thx ! Love your diy projects


Thanks dude, appreciate it, the driver you asked about is fairly good, easy to tune


----------



## captione

jeejack said:


> Any thoughts about this driver from NSC Audio store ?


I have one. Tuned it closely as the graphs would suggest, putting the drivers as it is made the midrange bloated so I put some horseshoe foam and it got more linear. Turned it into a transparent build because not seeing that titanium diaphragm would be a waste 😂

As for my impressions, it's definitely balanced on the lower regions but with a cool tonality, there's also bright focus on the upper to lower treble parts, but surprisingly not sibilant. They can go loud with smartphones too so they're really easy to drive, I actually use them when I don't like to bring the dangly dongles on the go.

There's also a "bass" version of this that sports the same PCB but with a green epoxy for the coil, buy that or buy them both! You can also get that weird MX500 shell that I'm talking about in those, so if you do, get another pair of 130ohms and put it there, just kidding! 😂







furyossa said:


> Same here. I don't think that the difference in sound is noticeable only because of the small difference in these MX500 shells.
> For me TC200 is an average sounding driver, just slightly better than EMX500. Currently, my favorite Tingo model is TG-38s, and it's a step above the TC200


There is definitely a difference in terms of those weird MX500 shells. The cavity volume in there ain't right compared to the usual, vents too small and the stem hole almost measures as a yuin pk shell so you could imagine it's almost air tight. I tried to put my V-shaped pink dot big solders on those shells (just horseshoe foam) and it gave me a bloat in the midrange while with normal transparent shells, it gave what the graphs shown somehow... 

Also, there's 3 different drivers that those sellers used in the "DIY" TC200 from what I found in various fb forums. I'm saying it with a "DIY" because for sure they just bootlegged the OG TC200/TG-38s which TinGo produces. Those TinGo TC200/TG-38s were also made to bootleg or sound like the unicorn Sennheiser MX985. Talk about a bootleg inception...

Also, I'm not gonna assume the original is better or anything from those other versions, but there's certainly a charm to those bootleg bootlegs that makes it a hyped pair. 

I'm still in the process of getting more data for a megapost. Still need to find pictures on the innards of those OG TinGo TC200 (silver shell version or the one with a weird shell) or the TG-38s to at least give people a baseline on what the "original" is supposed to be, so if any of you have a pair that you're willing to crack open, post it here or DM me!


----------



## jeejack

@captione 130 ohm will be 👍


----------



## assassin10000

Haven't had a chance to touch them, but the new 14.8mm titanium drivers showed up.


----------



## 40760 (Mar 26, 2021)

Hi guys! Have not done any DIY on earbuds yet, but I need to glue back some old drivers that have popped off from their shells.

Are there any recommended kind of glue or neat application method to bond the driver covers to the shells, so there won't be much leftover glue residue?

Any input will be great appreciated!

EDIT: I found some mention of E8000 or B7000 adhesive. Are these recommended for the job?


----------



## captione

palestofwhite said:


> Hi guys! Have not done any DIY on earbuds yet, but I need to glue back some old drivers that have popped off from their shells.
> 
> Are there any recommended kind of glue or neat application method to bond the driver covers to the shells, so there won't be much leftover glue residue?
> 
> ...


Anything as viscous as resin would do the job, just avoid putting the glue near the coil vent. Even a small dot of super glue on the back part of the shell can do the trick too.


----------



## 40760

captione said:


> Anything as viscous as resin would do the job, just avoid putting the glue near the coil vent. Even a small dot of super glue on the back part of the shell can do the trick too.



Thanks for the tip! Are the E8000 or B7000 viscous enough? They come with the precision application tip which really helps. I'm not sure which one to get though.


----------



## Themilkman46290

I use a cheap brush, needle or my wife's orange wood cuticle pushers for neat glue jobs. 
Keep a few square peices of rag (for wiping, don't use a large rag because if glue gets on one end, it's only a matter of time before everything has a bit of glue, little squares keep things from spreading) but there are many techniques for gluing


----------



## 40760 (Mar 26, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> I use a cheap brush, needle or my wife's orange wood cuticle pushers for neat glue jobs.
> Keep a few square peices of rag (for wiping, don't use a large rag because if glue gets on one end, it's only a matter of time before everything has a bit of glue, little squares keep things from spreading) but there are many techniques for gluing



Thanks for the tip! Will definitely take note!

EDIT: I got the E8000 adhesive.


----------



## assassin10000

E8000 with a precision tip. 

I usually just spread it on the shell and snap the cover over it. Then rub the excess away or peel it with some tweezers after a few minutes.


----------



## 40760

assassin10000 said:


> E8000 with a precision tip.
> 
> I usually just spread it on the shell and snap the cover over it. Then rub the excess away or peel it with some tweezers after a few minutes.



I ordered the one with the metal tip. I guess that is the precision tip?

I can't wait for it to arrive so I can fix up my Yinman 600. 

The funny thing about the Yinman 600 is that it uses a black MX500 style front covers that are actually about 1mm larger than the wooden back shell, so nothing is actually holding them together, unlike the MX500 type front and back which snaps on.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> I ordered the one with the metal tip. I guess that is the precision tip?
> 
> I can't wait for it to arrive so I can fix up my Yinman 600.
> 
> The funny thing about the Yinman 600 is that it uses a black MX500 style front covers that are actually about 1mm larger than the wooden back shell, so nothing is actually holding them together, unlike the MX500 type front and back which snaps on.


Also, MX500 driver cover is in most cases larger than metal shells you can find on Ali. Apply glue (small amount of course) on
shell "lips". By small amount I mean on two opposite sides of "lips". If you want to play with the driver (tuning, shell modification or replacement) than the better option is double-sided duct tape


----------



## earfanatic

Anybody recognises this diver?


----------



## vygas

earfanatic said:


> Anybody recognises this diver?


TL;DR : Most likely a 32ohm Black DoCoMo driver or variation of them. (I start rambling below this, reader digression is advised)

Either a 32ohm long black DoCoMo driver or even the 16ohm newer type, based off the dot. More likely to be the 32ohm because of the mesh but you never really know. I have 2 pairs of those drivers without the green dot and one of them sounds like a less warm and close to neutral version of the Cygnus (hence why I think they're just rejected NTT drivers) whilst the other is genuinely just a long black DoCoMo in a "PK" shell. I would like to see a picture of these next to another "PK" style driver just to confirm.


----------



## 40760

furyossa said:


> Also, MX500 driver cover is in most cases larger than metal shells you can find on Ali. Apply glue (small amount of course) on
> shell "lips". By small amount I mean on two opposite sides of "lips". If you want to play with the driver (tuning, shell modification or replacement) than the better option is double-sided duct tap



Thanks for your valuable input! It is true that the MX500 driver cover is indeed larger than the wooden back shell of the wooden Yinman 600 which I will be fixing.

By "lips" do you mean the part of the MX500 driver cover where it wraps around the back shell? I think I need a better way to identify the anatomy of the earbud parts in case I get glue on the wrong places!


----------



## earfanatic

vygas said:


> TL;DR : Most likely a 32ohm Black DoCoMo driver or variation of them. (I start rambling below this, reader digression is advised)


You are most likely right.
Actually it is from a long black docomo shell, I bought for the shell alone.



Now I am confused. Bucause it sounds so good, I dont want to destroy it.
I am not sure what I am hearing. Anyway, this is a keeper, and I need a new donor shell.   
I should throw away the cheap cable and this will be a gem.
Link: DIY mobile phone with mic earphone Bass voice


----------



## vygas

earfanatic said:


> You are most likely right.
> Actually it is from a long black docomo shell, I bought for the shell alone.
> 
> Now I am confused. Bucause it sounds so good, I dont want to destroy it.
> ...


I can make a video or a text guide on how to open a DoCoMo shell, though not 100% sure if the drivers themselves need a bit of head to come out.


----------



## earfanatic

vygas said:


> I can make a video or a text guide on how to open a DoCoMo shell


For me should not bother. I use my trusty beer opener. See my post. 
Otherwise, it is a good idea to make a howto post of opening different shells.


----------



## furyossa

palestofwhite said:


> Thanks for your valuable input! It is true that the MX500 driver cover is indeed larger than the wooden back shell of the wooden Yinman 600 which I will be fixing.
> 
> By "lips" do you mean the part of the MX500 driver cover where it wraps around the back shell? I think I need a better way to identify the anatomy of the earbud parts in case I get glue on the wrong places!


By "lips" I mean front part of shell head where driver is placed. You can add glue on the outher side (left and right)


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> By "lips" I mean front part of shell head where driver is placed. You can add glue on the outher side (left and right)


^this is also how I glue drivers/covers on. 

A bit of glue about 4mm long on both left and right, on the outside of the shell opening, where the cover overlaps. Press cover on, let sit for a few minutes and then remove excess glue.

This keeps it from plugging or blocking any tuning holes/paper/foam, grabbing the drivers if needing to take it apart and makes for easy clean up.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> ^this is also how I glue drivers/covers on.
> 
> A bit of glue about 4mm long on both left and right, on the outside of the shell opening, where the cover overlaps. Press cover on, let sit for a few minutes and then remove excess glue.
> 
> This keeps it from plugging or blocking any tuning holes/paper/foam, grabbing the drivers if needing to take it apart and makes for easy clean up.


exactly that


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> For me should not bother. I use my trusty beer opener. See my post.
> Otherwise, it is a good idea to make a howto post of opening different shells.


Yes   I totally forgot about that "trusty" thing 
I assume that your model use PK2 driver (32ohm).


----------



## furyossa (Mar 29, 2021)

I recently spoke with @FranQL about the custom DIY model with PK2 driver. He asked the Chitty store to put together DIY buds with this combo: a PK2 driver, a PK shell and a "goddess" cable with 2.5mm plug. Chitty store now has this model in stock https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002280618982.html

edit: He also ordered the PK1 150 transparent driver in this combination and now he told me that he even ordered a spare pair because he was delighted with the sound quality and the quality of the buds themselves.


----------



## Maceinspace (Mar 29, 2021)

I'm a big fan of these open-back metal shells from NSC. Has anyone else given them a try?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001773416768.html?mp=1

They're not cheap (~15USD) but IMO they greatly improve sound quality when compared to MX500 shells. They have a wider soundstage, deeper bass, and pleasant mids and highs. I've messed around with different tuning foams and positioning in the MX500 shells as well as adding different vent hole(s) on the shell, but I'm never really content with the sound. Seems like mids or highs always suffer when trying to boost bass. I probably just have to keep practicing with the tuning... lol. But in the meantime, these open-back shells sound great with minimal tuning. I've got the 32ohm red dot drivers in them and I think I prefer these buds over the 64 ohm Ti composite and 130 ohm Bery in MX500 shells. Also, made my first 4 core cable! That was fun.


----------



## jeejack

Maceinspace said:


> I'm a big fan of these open-back metal shells from NSC. Has anyone else given them a try?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001773416768.html?mp=1
> 
> They're not cheap (~15USD) but IMO they greatly improve sound quality when compared to MX500 shells. They have a wider soundstage, deeper bass, and pleasant mids and highs. I've messed around with different tuning foams and positioning in the MX500 shells as well as adding different vent hole(s) on the shell, but I'm never really content with the sound. Seems like mids or highs always suffer when trying to boost bass. I probably just have to keep practicing with the tuning... lol. But in the meantime, these open-back shells sound great with minimal tuning. I've got the 32ohm red dot drivers in them and I think I prefer these buds over the 64 ohm Ti composite and 130 ohm Bery in MX500 shells. Also, made my first 4 core cable! That was fun.


Beautiful ! Good job !


----------



## rprodrigues

@Maceinspace

What a great set you have assembled!


----------



## Maceinspace

@rprodrigues @jeejack thanks! Couldn't have done it without this great thread.


----------



## earfanatic

I was wandering about PK2 drivers in different shells.
Has anyone tried these in long docomo shell vs pk docomo shell? Does anyone has impressions about the sound difference?


----------



## robar

Maceinspace said:


> I'm a big fan of these open-back metal shells from NSC. Has anyone else given them a try?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001773416768.html?mp=1
> 
> They're not cheap (~15USD) but IMO they greatly improve sound quality when compared to MX500 shells. They have a wider soundstage, deeper bass, and pleasant mids and highs. I've messed around with different tuning foams and positioning in the MX500 shells as well as adding different vent hole(s) on the shell, but I'm never really content with the sound. Seems like mids or highs always suffer when trying to boost bass. I probably just have to keep practicing with the tuning... lol. But in the meantime, these open-back shells sound great with minimal tuning. I've got the 32ohm red dot drivers in them and I think I prefer these buds over the 64 ohm Ti composite and 130 ohm Bery in MX500 shells. Also, made my first 4 core cable! That was fun.


Beautiful! Are those extra stems that come with the shells used for installing diy cables? If so, could you show how to connect those? Is this shell compatible with generic mmcx cables? Thanks


----------



## jogawag

earfanatic said:


> I was wandering about PK2 drivers in different shells.
> Has anyone tried these in long docomo shell vs pk docomo shell? Does anyone has impressions about the sound difference?


Long stem docomo shells produce more mids and lows than PK docomo shells.


----------



## robar

By the way, have you bought anything interesting in the current sale?

Anyone tried these?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002370366690.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002187611235.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002318950933.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001296003822.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001959076203.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.aa9b3c00d6giC5&mp=1


----------



## earfanatic

robar said:


> By the way, have you bought anything interesting in the current sale?
> 
> Anyone tried these?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002370366690.html
> ...


I have bought the titanium 14.8mm 32 Ohm a month ago, but it is still shipping.


----------



## earfanatic

jogawag said:


> Long stem docomo shells produce more mids and lows than PK docomo shells.


I like these long docomo shells more and more. They fit in my ear and don't move a bit. I bought 2 more to try the titanium and biofibre drivers.


----------



## Maceinspace

robar said:


> Beautiful! Are those extra stems that come with the shells used for installing diy cables? If so, could you show how to connect those? Is this shell compatible with generic mmcx cables? Thanks


Thanks! These are generic mmcx connectors, though the stock connectors would look best. I broke one of the stock mmcx when trying to remove it from a different cable . Here are the connectors I'm currently using. The quality is only decent but they fit the shell's stem width well. I followed this YT video for the cable and mmcx soldering. 
I bought another of these shells during the sale so I'll post some pics in a few weeks of the build process! In the meantime, here are some pics of connector and shell tuning.






Small heatshrink tubing to protect from shorts at the soldering site. Aso added a small square of micropore tape to the vent.



Thick horseshoe foam with micropore tap covering the two exposed ports.


----------



## Maceinspace

Maceinspace said:


> Thanks! These are generic mmcx connectors, though the stock connectors would look best. I broke one of the stock mmcx when trying to remove it from a different cable . Here are the connectors I'm currently using. The quality is only decent but they fit the shell's stem width well. I followed this YT video for the cable and mmcx soldering.
> I bought another of these shells during the sale so I'll post some pics in a few weeks of the build process! In the meantime, here are some pics of connector and shell tuning.
> 
> Generic mmxc connectors. They're glossier than the stock pair.
> ...


----------



## rprodrigues

Hi folks,

Any idea where I could get the wire used for the following Tin Hifi upgrade cable?
https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/1005001645153926.html

It uses a single wire per side.

Thank you


----------



## earfanatic (Apr 5, 2021)

rprodrigues said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Any idea where I could get the wire used for the following Tin Hifi upgrade cable?
> https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/1005001645153926.html
> ...


Actually, it uses a cable with many strands of enameled copper wire. Most earphone cable is the same but the half of the strands are red or green coloured for the right and left positive, and transparent enamel for the ground.

Maybe this one:
Link


----------



## jeejack

Anybody has this ? 
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32811888693.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&spider=y


----------



## rprodrigues

jeejack said:


> Anybody has this ?
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32811888693.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&spider=y


I do.
Avoid it.


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Anybody has this ?
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32811888693.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&spider=y


Yup. Cable is really rigid. For me personally the best version of PK2 is with Docomo shells. You can find that version here
and you can choose another cable. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32237685233.html
If you want to play by yourself this is a good choice for practice https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32581904591.html
If you are looking something better, this is PK1 version which is assembled by @FranQL request
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32899438382.html


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Yup. Cable is really rigid. For me personally the best version of PK2 is with Docomo shells. You can find that version here
> and you can choose another cable. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32237685233.html
> If you want to play by yourself this is a good choice for practice https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32581904591.html
> If you are looking something better, this is PK1 version which is assembled by @FranQL request
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32899438382.html



Pk1 transparent film 150 ohms is a good value for the price.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_v6EgC7


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> Pk1 transparent film 150 ohms is a good value for the price.
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_v6EgC7


And they look awesome


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> Yup. Cable is really rigid. For me personally the best version of PK2 is with Docomo shells. You can find that version here
> and you can choose another cable. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32237685233.html
> If you want to play by yourself this is a good choice for practice https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32581904591.html
> If you are looking something better, this is PK1 version which is assembled by @FranQL request
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32899438382.html


Thank you guys!  
What driver is in Docomo shell?


----------



## jeejack

FranQL said:


> Pk1 transparent film 150 ohms is a good value for the price.
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_v6EgC7


Beautiful! Sound good ? My best earbuds are with 130 ohm beryllium and 400 ohm drivers


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Thank you guys!
> What driver is in Docomo shell?


PK2 driver but U can order any 14.8mm driver and Chitty Store will build buds for you


----------



## FranQL

jeejack said:


> Beautiful! Sound good ? My best earbuds are with 130 ohm beryllium and 400 ohm drivers


I have not heard either of the two controllers that you indicate, but on paper I see no need to test, in my case the pk shells are the most comfortable, and they are the buds that I usually use.

The sound is quite full, towards warmth, weaker in the bass than in the rest of the frequencies, but a sound that does not fatigue. I like 150 ohm more than 32 ohm, and with furukawa cable they sound better to me, clearer (this is something that is surely only in my head, or they placed the inner filter better in that set).


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> I have not heard either of the two controllers that you indicate, but on paper I see no need to test, in my case the pk shells are the most comfortable, and they are the buds that I usually use.
> 
> The sound is quite full, towards warmth, weaker in the bass than in the rest of the frequencies, but a sound that does not fatigue. I like 150 ohm more than 32 ohm, and with furukawa cable they sound better to me, clearer (this is something that is surely only in my head, or they placed the inner filter better in that set).


It's not in your head. I tested my PK1 150Ω "redfilm" with many 4-core cables and with furukawa wire PK1 has cleaner sound. I assume that "goddess" wire is softer overall but
I can't comment is it noticeably better, SQ wise, than Furukawa


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Yup. Cable is really rigid. For me personally the best version of PK2 is with Docomo shells. You can find that version here
> and you can choose another cable. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32237685233.html
> If you want to play by yourself this is a good choice for practice https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32581904591.html
> If you are looking something better, this is PK1 version which is assembled by @FranQL request
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32899438382.html


Funny, that cut wire docomo shell. One day I found the other end, cable with microphone also cut wire. Together it is the same one I have (in one piece) I have posted the link before. But I will recable it anyway.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> It's not in your head. I tested my PK1 150Ω "redfilm" with many 4-core cables and with furukawa wire PK1 has cleaner sound. I assume that "goddess" wire is softer overall but
> I can't comment is it noticeably better, SQ wise, than Furukawa


I totally agree with you, compared to goddess the same thing happens.


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> It's not in your head. I tested my PK1 150Ω "redfilm" with many 4-core cables and with furukawa wire PK1 has cleaner sound.


Do you have a link for that cable you referring to? Could you share it?


----------



## furyossa (Apr 11, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Funny, that cut wire docomo shell. One day I found the other end, cable with microphone also cut wire. Together it is the same one I have (in one piece) I have posted the link before. But I will recable it anyway.


Cut wire Docomo PK2 is used for this. I bought an assembled version and 2 pairs of cut wire model and it's the same PK2 driver. Also, it is smart to buy a spare pair right away if you are planning to order a cut version because maybe some driver not works, that happened to me, I guess these models are kept like this on the pile
In link that I posted the last option (white-pink cable with Sennheiser plug) is Furukawa cable, but you can ask for all white, all pink or full black version of furukawa cable.
Cable is rigid, but quality of wire is very good for buds


----------



## FranQL

earfanatic said:


> Do you have a link for that cable you referring to? Could you share it?



https://a.aliexpress.com/_vN7wEr


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_vN7wEr


Yup that's it and this is the black version


----------



## furyossa (Apr 11, 2021)

This is the most beautiful version that I saw (PK2+Docomo+Furukawa cable)  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-14952307
... and @FranQL "goddess" PK1 150Ω "transparent film" of course


----------



## FranQL




----------



## 730user

I have a gold-silver cable. JieTu Audio Store. Not braided. He looked beautiful. But pretty quickly the gold began to darken and the silver turned green.
It will be different only if the cable cores are in a non-transparent sheath.


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> This is the most beautiful version that I saw (PK2+Docomo+Furukawa cable)  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-14952307
> ... and @FranQL "goddess" PK1 150Ω "transparent film" of course


What should i chose ? 🤔 Both are beautiful


----------



## vygas

Had some spare time on my hands and re-jacked my SL-45 and HDD-1, though I may have done an oopsie on the former pair .





Hope everyone has a good week (and hopefully better luck with soldering ).


----------



## captione

Long time no post guys! 
Just ordered the Orange Kube 1.0s, and I'm very excited to have it in my hands. 
These are the driver pics of the Kube 1.0s if yall are interested. Definitely uses a foster MX500 driver that we usually see, but with a big center vent covered in black epoxy. I guess this is to be expected given the era of when the Kube was released. 
(picture came from a local modder, Krampt Customs) 




Also, I'll probably post my TC200 findings here but some of you might have read that from the NBBA FB forum but, I wanna spread the knowledge as far as possible. Still busy at work and some reviewer stuff unfortunately...


----------



## furyossa




----------



## Themilkman46290

captione said:


> Long time no post guys!
> Just ordered the Orange Kube 1.0s, and I'm very excited to have it in my hands.
> These are the driver pics of the Kube 1.0s if yall are interested. Definitely uses a foster MX500 driver that we usually see, but with a big center vent covered in black epoxy. I guess this is to be expected given the era of when the Kube was released.
> (picture came from a local modder, Krampt Customs)
> ...


Cool findings man, you should definitely post here, I was kicked out of the nbba Facebook group for trash talking apple products and saying that the new airpods headphone were not at all audiophile level. There moderator got super angry, that's when I got blocked, seems they are really just a marketing group, and even though no apple product is "budget" nor "audiophile" they sure get angry if you point that out


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Cool findings man, you should definitely post here, I was kicked out of the nbba Facebook group for trash talking apple products and saying that the new airpods headphone were not at all audiophile level. There moderator got super angry, that's when I got blocked, seems they are really just a marketing group, and even though no apple product is "budget" nor "audiophile" they sure get angry if you point that out


You shouldn't have wasted time there, it's not worth the effort. for me, it’s all an overly expensive consumer product


----------



## captione

Themilkman46290 said:


> Cool findings man, you should definitely post here, I was kicked out of the nbba Facebook group for trash talking apple products and saying that the new airpods headphone were not at all audiophile level. There moderator got super angry, that's when I got blocked, seems they are really just a marketing group, and even though no apple product is "budget" nor "audiophile" they sure get angry if you point that out


Man, that sucks... I wish they should be more open on people's opinions bad or not... I've been posting there and there's no problem so far, but that censorship is still worrisome. 

I'm definitely gonna post the findings here, maybe this weekend since I'm free.


----------



## Themilkman46290

captione said:


> Man, that sucks... I wish they should be more open on people's opinions bad or not... I've been posting there and there's no problem so far, but that censorship is still worrisome.
> 
> I'm definitely gonna post the findings here, maybe this weekend since I'm free.


Yeah,I was pretty bumbed out, but what can I say, I tend to call bull on people real quick, they where hyping those airpods so hard, but I have a friend who got them and they are a huge disappointment, the Samsung galaxy akg Bluetooth are a lot better then anything Apple makes, but I haven't heard a Bluetooth headphone that can be considered audiophile level.
I agree with furyossa's statement, they are a complete waste of time, I sometimes forget, that those groups along with this sight we are on now are actually marketing platforms and if we speak badly about sponsors, we get blocked,  un-biased reviews don't really exist.

Although I do like that crinacle guy, exposing a lot of industry leaders, I remember trying a few of those insanely priced iems and thinking maybe something was wrong with me, they seemed off.
But I digress, point is, this is a lot better then other places for this subject


----------



## jeejack

You are the best guys ! Best thread ever ! 
I just finish my 130 ohm bery build. I cover all the holes for an clean and clear sound. Sound awesome, one of the best drivers


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> You are the best guys ! Best thread ever !
> I just finish my 130 ohm bery build. I cover all the holes for an clean and clear sound. Sound awesome, one of the best drivers


Congrats! Very nice build and you matched the colors perfectly


----------



## groucho69

https://www.audioreviews.org/remembering-thomas-wilson-alias-the-hungrypanda-jk/


----------



## captione

groucho69 said:


> https://www.audioreviews.org/remembering-thomas-wilson-alias-the-hungrypanda-jk/


Can't believe it's a year now since he passed away. 
He's one of the people that inspired me here to make earbuds. I still miss him, I'll probably never meet anyone that passionate in this hobby ever again.


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Can't believe it's a year now since he passed away.
> He's one of the people that inspired me here to make earbuds. I still miss him, I'll probably never meet anyone that passionate in this hobby ever again.


Yup. He was really a loyal member of this forum, a big fan of this hobby who inspired other members and provided very valuable information to all of us. His collection of earbuds is really amazing


----------



## earfanatic (Apr 17, 2021)

My titaniums arrived, it is 14.8mm good for PK/DoCoMo shells.
Link
I put them in a long docomo shell. The grille is round inside, do not snap on the docomo shell, so I had to file the shell to round (for those who is not familiar with, this shell has two flange to hold its original plastic grille) and glue it in. My first impression is its "titanium" harsh treble. So I burn it in for a few days, to see/hear if it gets better.


Spoiler



Now I have bought 2 drivers for the shell, the biofibre and the titanium that I had high hopes so far.
Fortunately not many drivers fit the 14.8mm shell, so I dont have to try a dozen drivers. But none of them have the calming effect that the PK2 driver has so far.







Update: All holes needed to be blocked but the bass port. Now it has middle bass too. :-D
Interestingly it is like an IEM driver. If I push it against my ear canal, it is good. If I release the pressure, it brightens, and the stage goes one street away.
Update-2: With double foams it gets exciting. It stopped scratching my brain with every string. Now we are on track.


----------



## earfanatic

Have You ever seen a driver having the positive terminal on the left?
See the photo from the Titanium driver? The red dot is on the left side. I have ignored it, and soldered the positive to the right.


----------



## earfanatic (Apr 17, 2021)

This is the long docomo shell with the metal grille.
Temporaty gluing. I dont have a suitable clamp, but dont need real force either.



The purple foam inside the vent is craft foam sheet glued in. I used craft express glue, that doesn't hardens, I can peel it off when I want.




Yes, I'm still using the crappy original cable the buds came with. I tune first, change cable if it worth it...


----------



## jeejack

earfanatic said:


> This is the long docomo shell with the metal grille.
> Temporaty gluing. I dont have a suitable clamp, but dont need real force either.
> 
> The purple foam inside the vent is craft foam sheet glued in. I used craft express glue, that doesn't hardens, I can peel it off when I want.
> ...


Good job!
It was good if you took a picture with the inside of the shell


----------



## earfanatic

jeejack said:


> Good job!
> It was good if you took a picture with the inside of the shell


Here You go:






Spoiler: Also my latest impressions:



Please note it is only my thoughts, this driver has nice resolution, and 3d soundstage, but it needs good seal. What apparently I could not get.
My best approach is to put my finger on the shell and press it against my ear. When I release it, it has a feeling when Your IEM falls out from your ear canal.
Although it is a great contender, I feel I miss something. And I really feel myself like him:


----------



## furyossa (Apr 18, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Here You go:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Docomo shell already has small inner space (inner cavity size) which provides optimal work conditions for PK drivers. If you use a knot on the cable and a thicker filter, you will reduce a lot of internal space, which can jeopardize the performance of the driver. So try to remove the knot and use another method to block the cable pull-out


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Docomo shell already has small inner space (inner cavity size) which provides optimal work conditions for PK drivers. If you use a knot on the cable and a thicker filter, you will reduce a lot of internal space, which can jeopardize the performance of the driver. So try to remove the knot and use another method to block the cable pull-out


I will try. My usual cable is thick. For this shell it hardly needs a cable blocker at all.


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> I will try. My usual cable is thick. For this shell it hardly needs a cable blocker at all.


Yup. For this shell most braided cable not need blocker, you can use shrink tube just to prevent unraveling, and it will act like blocker


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Yup. For this shell most braided cable not need blocker, you can use shrink tube just to prevent unraveling, and it will act like blocker


Shrink tube! That is a good idea!


----------



## earfanatic

Well, end of story, for now. One driver is dead.
During my experiments, I break the coil wire.
Here is my lesson:
It happens that the titanium driver grille is a little bit bigger than the shell, and I had hard time figuring out how to secure it quickly for audition, without gluing.
So I had a PK driver I removed from thegrille, and I wanted to put the titanium driver into the PK grille that should snap onto the shell.
That is when the accident may happened. It turned out, this driver is also a little bit bigger than the PK, so I had to force it into the PK grille.
Just after that I realized it has no sound, and I had to cut the PK grille just to get out the titanium driver. Sorry PK2...
This is the one, with the broken coil wires.




Well, this is a diy forum anyway. So I was going to solder it back!!!
My eyes said no, but I tried anyway.



Long story short, it was working for almost 2 seconds. Then the wire broke again. It is so little surface to hold strength.
What I learned is removing drivers from the original grille is dangerous, but at least dont try to lift the side with the coil wires.
Other lesson is do not force anything. I should have sanded the PK grille larger instead forcing in a different driver.

So, I am ordering another pair, and a PK shell set to get the grille, and I am starting all over again.


----------



## earfanatic

Is anybody waiting for parts? 
Also I have seen DIY vido drivers on Ali. Have anyone experienced with these in a better shell?


----------



## assassin10000

earfanatic said:


> My titaniums arrived, it is 14.8mm good for PK/DoCoMo shells.
> Link
> I put them in a long docomo shell. The grille is round inside, do not snap on the docomo shell, so I had to file the shell to round (for those who is not familiar with, this shell has two flange to hold its original plastic grille) and glue it in. My first impression is its "titanium" harsh treble. So I burn it in for a few days, to see/hear if it gets better.
> 
> ...



Cool. I've got these here. 

Well had them for a month now but haven't had time to make a pair of buds.  



earfanatic said:


> Well, end of story, for now. One driver is dead.
> During my experiments, I break the coil wire.
> Here is my lesson:
> It happens that the titanium driver grille is a little bit bigger than the shell, and I had hard time figuring out how to secure it quickly for audition, without gluing.
> ...



Doh! Unfortunately this happens to just about all of us. Last time I ordered 2 pairs just in case


----------



## jeejack

Recabled Vido with jcally ep01 cable and driver airy mod. I can't believe how good it sounds now


----------



## earfanatic

jeejack said:


> Recabled Vido with jcally ep01 cable and driver airy mod. I can't believe how good it sounds now


How would You describe the change?


----------



## captione

*Findings and driver pictures on the Tingo OG TC200/TC200 in MX500 shell and the "DIY" versions*

Sorry for taking a bit too long, but here's what I found on those TC200 variants (+ some extras). I'll be copying my FB post exactly with some format fixes so forgive me if this is a bit crappy 

I just hope some people find it useful and be used to guide themselves when buying a pair of these.
I'll just put a bullet on what I found on various sources:

For the sake of context, there were reported "new" variants of the "DIY" TC200 in our group, and the found knowledge that it's basically _a bootleg of a bootleg_, mimicking the Tingo TC200 (MX500 shell version) which is also intended to copy the likeness sound-wise of the unicorn and rare Sennheiser MX985.
There is also reported driver variance in the "DIY" Versions of the TC200, with three drivers found so far. (Please dm me or post it here if you found another one that isn't here!)
The three drivers we found on the "DIY" TC200 include the most common driver which is called the _" 32ohm PK-style MX500 driver" with an identifiable red resin on the edges of the driver frame_. Second one being the _Vido-like drivers with better coil epoxy and with a green resin on the edge of the driver frame_. The third one is also a _Vido-like driver but with a blue coil epoxy and a noticeable color separation on the PCB pads. _We honestly don't know what driver came first unless it's revealed by the manufacturers, but I have a hunch that the blue coil epoxy came first, the green resin second and the latest is the PK style red resins.


Spoiler: Pictures 
















For the actual TinGo TC200/TC200 in MX500, it uses completely different drivers. The former is using _actual/OEM'd/refurbed (?) MX985 driver_ and the latter using a _weird titanium plated driver with a smaller driver frame size compared to its MX500 faceplate._


Spoiler: Pictures 












I've also put the actual MX985 in comparison to the OG TC200. The drivers they use are almost the same honestly... but the OG TC200 is more damped than the actual MX985, which is interesting. At least there is given effort in its tuning, it might have been hard adjusting that just to sound like it's the actual thing.


Spoiler: MX985 driver









Also an addition, but the Tingo TG-38s uses _a weird driver that has a bit large center vent, small pcb and solder surface with tuning cotton for the vents._


Spoiler: Pictures 










Sources:
@vygas 
AUDIOGON
Portable Audio Philippines
NBBA (NO BS BUDGET AUDIOPHILE)
and you guys!
Links:
"DIY" TC200 variation thread:
https://www.facebook.com/.../permalink/4306126942748854
OG TC200 drivers and pictures link:
https://m.1688.com/offer/45579697603.html?ptow=113d26e7c9a
OG TC200 on MX500 shell photo link:
http://ixbt.photo/?id=photo:1146922


----------



## furyossa (Apr 25, 2021)

captione said:


> *Findings and driver pictures on the Tingo OG TC200/TC200 in MX500 shell and the "DIY" versions*
> 
> Sorry for taking a bit too long, but here's what I found on those TC200 variants (+ some extras). I'll be copying my FB post exactly with some format fixes so forgive me if this is a bit crappy
> 
> ...Man you're dissecting this buds like surgeon  BTW ... very useful info. This need to be archived in the book Anatomy of the buds 
I also open my TC200 and according to your research I think it is an old model (the foam is placed on the shell)
I didn't open TG38s because I like stock setup. Now I know ( thanks to you  ) how it looks inside. Definitely not the same driver as TC200 (it's way better)


----------



## jeejack

earfanatic said:


> How would You describe the change?


They opened a little, they are no longer so warm


----------



## jeejack

19-21 red dot. Awesome! Still waiting to recive the pink dot drivers


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> 19-21 red dot. Awesome! Still waiting to recive the pink dot drivers


KBEAR cable? Looks similar as _Yinyoo_6-core


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> KBEAR cable? Looks similar as _Yinyoo_6-core


Yes KBEAR cable


----------



## assassin10000

FYI these metal shells are available on AE again:




Just be aware they need modification to fit the plastic driver covers (any style).


----------



## furyossa (May 9, 2021)

Two interesting drivers



*LCP Film Diaphragm Driver *(yellow plastic is just a protection or actual diaphragm?)*: *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002539743673.html





*15.4mm (f.r:20Hz-22kHz ; s: 98.5dB) driver: *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002372955927.html

The last driver shows an old-school backplate with 17 holes. This driver, according to graph (if this is accurate), has an accentuated treble at 8-9K


----------



## assassin10000 (May 9, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Two interesting drivers
> 
> *LCP Film Diaphragm Driver *(yellow plastic is just a protection or actual diaphragm?)*: *https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002539743673.html
> 
> ...


LCP is liquid crystal polymer. Or a plastic that crystalizes after being in a liquid state. So I'm guessing that yellow IS the LCP. Neat find.

That second driver, ouch. Possibly harsh and bright.

________________________________________

Finally getting around to putting those new 14.8mm Ti drivers together and tuning them.

Unfortunately due to Win 10, it sometime in the last week or so 'forgot' the drivers for the graphics and audio. Probably some update broke something. Gotta fix it before I can take any measurements.


----------



## furyossa (May 9, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> LCP is liquid crystal polymer. Or a plastic that crystalizes after being in a liquid state. So I'm guessing that yellow IS the LCP. Neat find.
> 
> That second driver, ouch. Possibly harsh and bright.
> 
> ...


Yup. Win 10 had a new update last week and also REW. Throw some graph when you have time


----------



## assassin10000 (May 9, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Yup. Win 10 had a new update last week and also REW. Throw some graph when you have time



So. These were a pleasant surprise. Signature is similar to the 150Ω redfilm with higher upper treble (air) extension. Sub-bass extension is as good as the redfilm and also doesn't have the typical mid-bass hump.

They don't have the electrical damping (blacker background) of the 150Ω redfilm and not quite the same resolution.


Spent last night fixing my laptop and got the audio (and graphics) drivers back up and running.






These may drop right into 2nd place of my personal ranking on 14.8mm diy drivers. Haven't even felt the need for any EQ (yet).


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> So. These were a pleasant surprise. Signature is similar to the 150Ω redfilm with higher upper treble (air) extension. Sub-bass extension is as good as the redfilm and also doesn't have the typical mid-bass hump.
> 
> They don't have the electrical damping (blacker background) of the 150Ω redfilm and not quite the same resolution.
> 
> ...


The "king" is still the king. Titanium drivers have better treble if they are well tuned which is not a common case.
I don't like 15.4mm 64ohm full Ti driver but 10mm 48ohm Ti that I used here is one of my favorite.
BTW...tanks for the graphs and a brief introduction to the new member of the Ti family


----------



## cheebs

assassin10000 said:


> So. These were a pleasant surprise. Signature is similar to the 150Ω redfilm with higher upper treble (air) extension. Sub-bass extension is as good as the redfilm and also doesn't have the typical mid-bass hump.
> 
> They don't have the electrical damping (blacker background) of the 150Ω redfilm and not quite the same resolution.
> 
> ...


What filter did you use for the housing?


----------



## assassin10000 (May 11, 2021)

cheebs said:


> What filter did you use for the housing?


Breathable tape.

_____________________________________________


Since I had a 2nd pair of those 32Ω Ti drivers, I decided to swap them onto my already modified X12 Ultra's (after removing the 64Ω N55 drivers). Here they are with the new ones:




They do require some EQ, as I think there is some baked into the chipset for the original drivers.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Breathable tape.
> 
> _____________________________________________
> 
> ...


I use for my sleeping buds 64Ω N55 drivers. It's not best DIY driver in the world but it is very durable. Before this I used drivers from Tingo TC200 and one of diaphragm detached from plastic cover due to the heat and moisture that is created when the ear rests on the pillow.

Has the sound changed a lot compared to the small PK shells? 
For the BT IEM/buds, maybe 32Ω drivers are better option  than the 64Ω, I mean battery life?


----------



## assassin10000 (May 11, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I use for my sleeping buds 64Ω N55 drivers. It's not best DIY driver in the world but it is very durable. Before this I used drivers from Tingo TC200 and one of diaphragm detached from plastic cover due to the heat and moisture that is created when the ear rests on the pillow.
> 
> Has the sound changed a lot compared to the small PK shells?
> For the BT IEM/buds, maybe 32Ω drivers are better option  than the 64Ω, I mean battery life?


They're mid-centric too. Less bass is good for long sessions as it doesn't cause as much movement of the ear drum membrane.


Tough to say. There is both physical differences and most likely EQ built into the unit as well.

Chamber size isn't that far off bit is smaller in volume. I popped the fronts off, removed the board & battery to seal the edges of the inner divider which has a notch on one side as the bass port/vent. Then I drilled a small hole in the divider, in a spot that isn't blocked, to tune the bass response.


As far as power use, no noticeable change.


----------



## cheebs (May 11, 2021)

Is there really no way of adding sub-bass without a sealed front volume? I atleast want to get as close to linear bass up to 20hz without EQ


----------



## furyossa

cheebs said:


> Is there really no way of adding sub-bass without a sealed front volume? I atleast want to get as close to linear bass up to 20hz without EQ


Hmmm... to the 20Hz...no.Also there is no perfect fit with earbuds


----------



## assassin10000

cheebs said:


> Is there really no way of adding sub-bass without a sealed front volume? I atleast want to get as close to linear bass up to 20hz without EQ


Depends on your ears, the drivers and tuning. Perhaps there is a 15.4mm that'll do it. But I have no idea which, as they don't fit me, so I don't use them.


----------



## ShaneyMac

Hello, I'm looking for cloth covered semi-finished wires for earbuds. Something like this on picture, but in different colors (blue, red, green, orange...). Do you guys have some good source for this type of cables? Thx


----------



## furyossa

ShaneyMac said:


> Hello, I'm looking for cloth covered semi-finished wires for earbuds. Something like this on picture, but in different colors (blue, red, green, orange...). Do you guys have some good source for this type of cables? Thx


Here you can find some useful info about different DIY parts


----------



## furyossa

Some interesting stuffs
So far I didn’t know there were 4 types (maybe more) of covers with metal mesh lids
It would be great if someone from the DIY store did an analysis of how each of these covers affects the sound by using the same driver 



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002109234653.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001551703132.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001724594715.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002341769623.html

Next we have two shells, one can be used for sleeping buds for sure and other for some high impendance driver 



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002341806436.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002603900431.html

And the drivers: 
new one Beryllium film ie Bery composite
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002610937602.html

old-school (Japanese)
14.8MM Fengda Driver: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002544712174.html
15.4MM Fengda Driver: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002544742010.html

and weird one
14mm 30Ω Ti: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002500579003.html
16mm old-school (reminiscent of old Philips SHE7750): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002344857206.html


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Some interesting stuffs
> So far I didn’t know there were 4 types (maybe more) of covers with metal mesh lids
> It would be great if someone from the DIY store did an analysis of how each of these covers affects the sound by using the same driver
> 
> ...


Top two and bottom right look like 15.4mm covers.
Bottom left looks like 14.8mm ones.

Of them I think the most restricted appears to be the bottom right and the top left. I think the more open designs of the other two are more common.



furyossa said:


> and weird one
> 14mm 30Ω Ti: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002500579003.html



Looks more like an IEM driver.


----------



## cheebs

assassin10000 said:


> Depends on your ears, the drivers and tuning. Perhaps there is a 15.4mm that'll do it. But I have no idea which, as they don't fit me, so I don't use them.


I got the 14.8mm 32ohm titanium and PK fits me very nicely. The bass is so close to linear though, which is why I'm even attempting this.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Looks more like an IEM driver.


Yup. But it's 14mm and front metal cover is quite open so it can be used for buds


----------



## furyossa

cheebs said:


> I got the 14.8mm 32ohm titanium and PK fits me very nicely. The bass is so close to linear though, which is why I'm even attempting this.


Can you post the picture?


----------



## cheebs

furyossa said:


> Can you post the picture?


It's the 32ohm Ti that assassin1000 got, if increasing sub bass really can't be done then I will just try damping upper mids and lower treble.


----------



## furyossa

cheebs said:


> It's the 32ohm Ti that assassin1000 got, if increasing sub bass really can't be done then I will just try damping upper mids and lower treble.


It mainly depends on the driver itself, it needs to have a good low end like say PK1 150Ω "redfilm" and then you can play with the shell.
What type of PK shell do you have, with one o two openings on the back? Basically you have to create more pressure in the shell.


----------



## earfanatic

Hello, the replacement titanium drivers arrived at my desk.
I ordered a pack of PK shells as well but I am not sure how to assembly these...

The shell itself hardly have any shoulder, but that is fine because the titanium driver goes front of it.
But the cover has no inner ring, where the driver could lay on. If I would press the cover on, it would touch the membrane.

Do You have eny ideas for this?


----------



## Themilkman46290

earfanatic said:


> Hello, the replacement titanium drivers arrived at my desk.
> I ordered a pack of PK shells as well but I am not sure how to assembly these...
> 
> The shell itself hardly have any shoulder, but that is fine because the titanium driver goes front of it.
> ...


I used very thin strips of cloth tape, bandage tape, on the inner walls of the face


----------



## assassin10000 (May 19, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Hello, the replacement titanium drivers arrived at my desk.
> I ordered a pack of PK shells as well but I am not sure how to assembly these...
> 
> The shell itself hardly have any shoulder, but that is fine because the titanium driver goes front of it.
> ...





Themilkman46290 said:


> I used very thin strips of cloth tape, bandage tape, on the inner walls of the face



Those are the 'larger' new style PK shells. They require a bit of work to fit 14.8mm drivers. See below:



assassin10000 said:


> I'll need to file or sand down the opening so there isn't an air gap.





assassin10000 said:


> Took a few minutes with a small fine metal file I have and made them fit the wire mesh drivers properly.





assassin10000 said:


> Continued on with modding these larger PK shell's. I had success fitting 2 sets of drivers to the shells and MMCX modding them.
> 
> I use the 'center' of the normal tuning foams, flip it upside down, use a sharp knife/exacto to score the adhesive and tweezers to remove the area where the vent goes.
> 
> ...



The other option is to buy the more expensive but correctly sized shells.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMDMxnj


----------



## earfanatic

Oh.. I see now. I ordered these also to replace a long docomo cover but these are just copies.


----------



## furyossa

Summer is coming and we need some colorful cables 
This look really nice with beautiful pattern on plug, Y-splitter and connectors



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001624898476.html

Also, this combo of colors looks cool



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002628341051.html


----------



## Into The Light5

Has anyone try these driver? The priciest diy 14.8mm i've seen

https://m.tb.cn/h.4sfvf6a?sm=a27cfd

Below image is one of the variant


----------



## furyossa

Into The Light5 said:


> Has anyone try these driver? The priciest diy 14.8mm i've seen
> 
> https://m.tb.cn/h.4sfvf6a?sm=a27cfd
> 
> Below image is one of the variant


I have seen similar drivers but not this one. It reminds me a lot of the original EMX500 14.8mm but not the same specification for sure. 
This driver has an open bass port  in the middle and has 17 holes on the backplate which is typical for old school drivers.
The only thing I don't like here is the high sensitivity of 120dB for 32ohm driver.


----------



## Into The Light5

furyossa said:


> I have seen similar drivers but not this one. It reminds me a lot of the original EMX500 14.8mm but not the same specification for sure.
> This driver has an open bass port  in the middle and has 17 holes on the backplate which is typical for old school drivers.
> The only thing I don't like here is the high sensitivity of 120dB for 32ohm driver.


The seller did mention about cresyn thingy, ok i will pull the trigger on this one


----------



## furyossa

Into The Light5 said:


> The seller did mention about cresyn thingy, ok i will pull the trigger on this one


Even if this driver has good sound quality you will need to use low volume level. On smartphones or DAPs with low output power it will perform ok.
On this thread you can find a couple of 14.8mm drivers which are really good. Current "KING" is PK1 150ohm "redfilm"
https://shopee.co.id/Original-YUIN-...-RED-Film-Treasure-Stuff-i.1058790.2341980308


----------



## jogawag

Into The Light5 said:


> The seller did mention about cresyn thingy, ok i will pull the trigger on this one


The cresyn is a Korean manufacturer of earbuds and makes copies of Japanese docomo earbuds.
For your DIY earbuds it's better to use PK1 150ohm "redfilm" driver which is well established and can be found on taobao.


----------



## Into The Light5

jogawag said:


> The cresyn is a Korean manufacturer of earbuds and makes copies of Japanese docomo earbuds.
> For your DIY earbuds it's better to use PK1 150ohm "redfilm" driver which is well established and can be found on taobao.


I found several variety of red film 150ohm pk, do you think they are all the same?


----------



## furyossa (May 20, 2021)

Into The Light5 said:


> I found several variety of red film 150ohm pk, do you think they are all the same?


Probably no. "redfilm" is the driver used for Nokia HDD-1 buds





I tested it in metal shell (buds with red cable posted here) but it definitely worked best in DOCOMO shells


----------



## jogawag (May 20, 2021)

Into The Light5 said:


> I found several variety of red film 150ohm pk, do you think they are all the same?





furyossa said:


> Probably no. "redfilm" is the driver used for Nokia HDD-1 buds
> 
> 
> I tested it in metal shell (buds with red cable posted here) but it definitely worked best in DOCOMO shells


Wait. There must be a shop in taobao where @assassin10000 bought the "Redfilm" 150ohm PK1 drivers.
@assassin10000, can you tell me which shop you bought them from?

For example, what about 精英电子厂(Elite Electronics Factory) shopthis shop? https://bit.ly/2QDY9Fy


----------



## assassin10000 (May 20, 2021)

jogawag said:


> Wait. There must be a shop in taobao where @assassin10000 bought the "Redfilm" 150ohm PK1 drivers.
> @assassin10000, can you tell me which shop you bought them from?
> 
> For example, what about 精英电子厂(Elite Electronics Factory) shopthis shop? https://bit.ly/2QDY9Fy



It was one you linked me to previously. It no longer shows up as a listing. Probably sold out.

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572623588063


----------



## furyossa

What this even mean?


----------



## jogawag (May 21, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> It was one you linked me to previously. It no longer shows up as a listing. Probably sold out.
> 
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=572623588063


What do you think of this new page of 精英电子厂(Elite Electronics Factory) shop? https://bit.ly/3wlrvYr
I am very sorry. Because I can't log in to my taobao account anymore, I can't use my cart to test..
.


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> What this even mean?


I'm sorry I didn't notice the photo on the page I linked to.
My guess is that it shows that the "Redfilm" 150ohm PK1 drivers have different ranks of quality and different prices.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> I'm sorry I didn't notice the photo on the page I linked to.
> My guess is that it shows that the "Redfilm" 150ohm PK1 drivers have different ranks of quality and different prices.


Probably. For now, I know only for 32ohm and 150ohm version. We need someone from China to translate these symbols


----------



## Luis1316

furyossa said:


> Probably. For now, I know only for 32ohm and 150ohm version. We need someone from China to translate these symbols


From left to right: 80 RMB, 40 RMB and 20 RMB. It only states about the price of those drivers, there isn't any mention to ohms.


----------



## furyossa

Luis1316 said:


> From left to right: 80 RMB, 40 RMB and 20 RMB. It only states about the price of those drivers, there isn't any mention to ohms.


In most cases the difference in impedance dictates the price so the higher the impedance the driver is more expensive.
But this is not the case for new PT2021 buds


----------



## vygas

furyossa said:


> In most cases the difference in impedance dictates the price so the higher the impedance the driver is more expensive.
> But this is not the case for new PT2021 buds


I've genuinely been thinking to buy another pair but in 365ohms just to see if they're doing the same resistor trick shoonth does.


----------



## jogawag

@Into The Light5, sorry for the confusion.

The real pk1 redfilm driver is 150ohm.
But when I saw on the first page you showed ( https://m.tb.cn/h.4sfvf6a?sm=a27cfd ) that the pk1 redfilm is 32ohm, I thought it was suspicious, so I recommended the pk1 redfilm 150ohm version.

However, when I took a closer look at that page, I saw that a very large number of buyers gave it good reviews, so it might be a good one.


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> Some interesting stuffs
> So far I didn’t know there were 4 types (maybe more) of covers with metal mesh lids
> It would be great if someone from the DIY store did an analysis of how each of these covers affects the sound by using the same driver
> 
> ...


Those 15.4mm "Fengda" drivers are the OG old batches of the first MX500 drivers (big solders) that I posted recently.


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Those 15.4mm "Fengda" drivers are the OG old batches of the first MX500 drivers (big solders) that I posted recently.


Yup. They look like they were taken from some old model


----------



## earfanatic

I have finally built the long docomo mods I wanted.
The 32 ohm titanium driver is really good, since I managed to install it in the original docomo grille.
notes:
-the titanium drivers have a STRONG magnet, that seems even stronger when not covered with the metall grille
-the docomo plastic grille was fine (original, not the crappy fake I bought) but the inner diameter had to be increased
-now it is like a hidden gem. Looks like the original, but it sounds fantastic: i could not stop listening first (despite a draining battery and an urge to visit the toilet)

I also tried the biofibre driver, with a small trick I managed to put it together.
While the titanium sounds better than the PK2, the biofibre is only different. I could not yet decide what to like more.

I decided to make illustrations how to do these:


----------



## earfanatic

And the biofibre mod:


----------



## furyossa (May 21, 2021)

Yup. Yup. Nicely done   Also post photos of final build


----------



## earfanatic (May 21, 2021)

Here are the actual photos.
The biofibre is still with "external tuning"  
Both of them snaps on nicely without glue, and recabled with the Aipinchun LC-OFC cable with L plug.


 



The blue piece I tried painting, I think it is a nice addition on this shell that could be personalized.
I wll try nail paint next time on it.


----------



## assassin10000

jogawag said:


> I'm sorry I didn't notice the photo on the page I linked to.
> My guess is that it shows that the "Redfilm" 150ohm PK1 drivers have different ranks of quality and different prices.





Luis1316 said:


> From left to right: 80 RMB, 40 RMB and 20 RMB. It only states about the price of those drivers, there isn't any mention to ohms.





furyossa said:


> In most cases the difference in impedance dictates the price so the higher the impedance the driver is more expensive.
> But this is not the case for new PT2021 buds



It's actually not different impedance. Further down the seller describes the 40rmb drivers as being sold by other sellers that has a cheaper/poorer quality driver with a less deep in color 'red'. Let alone the even cheaper 20rmb ones. He says the ones with the best bass response are the 80rmb ones.


Which completely makes sense as the diy pk1 redfilm 150Ω have the best sub-bass extension of the 14.8mm drivers I've tried.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Which completely makes sense as the diy pk1 redfilm 150Ω have the best sub-bass extension of the 14.8mm drivers I've tried.


Without doubt. I don't know why it's so difficult for other Ali stores to get this driver.
There used to be even a few pre-assembled models on sale and a driver separately and due to the great popularity everything was sold out


----------



## Into The Light5

Hello, ive read about the sr2 pro driver, but then i stumble upon this, different store, same name, physical different, also is the pro version stand only for cables variance?



 which one is the original sr2 pro driver?


----------



## jogawag (May 23, 2021)

Into The Light5 said:


> Hello, ive read about the sr2 pro driver, but then i stumble upon this, different store, same name, physical different, also is the pro version stand only for cables variance? which one is the original sr2 pro driver?


As for the stores, if you are referring to Chitty's Store and DIY Earphone Tribe Store, I was told by Chitty's Store that they are both owned by Chitty.
Leagginal Store is probably a newer store according to the number of followers, but I haven't checked.

And the "pro" in "sr2 pro" originally came from Chitty's Store on the finished product with silver plated cables.

Also, I believe that the sr2 driver in all stores is the original.

Lastly, I don't know if it's any of my business, but the sr2 driver has weak treble, so if you're going to DIY with it, you might want to use silver-plated cables.

The next one with 16ohms is the finished product of sr2's DIY.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002280618982.html


----------



## Into The Light5

jogawag said:


> As for the stores, if you are referring to Chitty's Store and DIY Earphone Tribe Store, I was told by Chitty's Store that they are both owned by Chitty.
> Leagginal Store is probably a newer store according to the number of followers, but I haven't checked.
> 
> And the "pro" in "sr2 pro" originally came from Chitty's Store on the finished product with silver plated cables.
> ...


How about the physical difference? Idk but the first picture said it is sr pro while the product title is sr2, and the second one just sr2 in the title and description, im a bit confused in that part


----------



## jogawag

Into The Light5 said:


> How about the physical difference? Idk but the first picture said it is sr pro while the product title is sr2, and the second one just sr2 in the title and description, im a bit confused in that part


I think they are all the same as "sr2 driver".
You can check it by opening the "Contact" link in the "Store Name Enclosure Mark Contact" on the left side of the shopping cart screen in a new window menu and chatting with the store.


----------



## Into The Light5

jogawag said:


> I think they are all the same as "sr2 driver".
> You can check it by opening the "Contact" link in the "Store Name Enclosure Mark Contact" on the left side of the shopping cart screen in a new window menu and chatting with the store.


Okay thanks i will try


----------



## jogawag

Into The Light5 said:


> Okay thanks i will try


I forgot to tell you that you can chat with Ali's store in English.
You can also negotiate some prices in chat.


----------



## jeejack

Guys a link on Aliexpress where I could buy 150 ohm red film driver or earbuds? Thank you !


----------



## rincewind

Hi All. I'm interested in buying a PK1. I've been using the PK3 forever but the housing finally cracked. I always wanted to try the PK1 as the reviews sound right up my alley (clear, slightly warm, full sound without any harshness). I'm mostly interested in the PK1 versus anything newer that's come out, because (with the full foam pads) the PK3 fit my ears perfectly and.... better the devil you know!

Since staring research, I've learnt that there are some sellers (on Aliexpress) who are advertising modified PK1s. I do wonder if these are using the important quality parts which make the original PK1s as good as they are, because they are priced insanely cheap in comparison. I also haven't found reports of regular trusted modders for the cable swaps etc. I look in one place and it says 'transparent film' driver and another which says 'red film' and I don't know what's what as it all goes out the window once someone opens it up and changes the original product! Can someone please tell me where I should look and recommend what to buy? BTW, I know I'll need an amp to get the best out of them.  
Thanks in advance!


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Guys a link on Aliexpress where I could buy 150 ohm red film driver or earbuds? Thank you !


On Ali you can find only 150ohm transparent film and 32ohm redfilm.


----------



## rincewind

furyossa said:


> On Ali you can find only 150ohm transparent film and 32ohm redfilm.


Will either of those sound like a genuine PK1? from my reading so far, it sounds like the originals had a 150ohm red film


----------



## jogawag

rincewind said:


> Hi All. I'm interested in buying a PK1. I've been using the PK3 forever but the housing finally cracked. I always wanted to try the PK1 as the reviews sound right up my alley (clear, slightly warm, full sound without any harshness). I'm mostly interested in the PK1 versus anything newer that's come out, because (with the full foam pads) the PK3 fit my ears perfectly and.... better the devil you know!
> 
> Since staring research, I've learnt that there are some sellers (on Aliexpress) who are advertising modified PK1s. I do wonder if these are using the important quality parts which make the original PK1s as good as they are, because they are priced insanely cheap in comparison. I also haven't found reports of regular trusted modders for the cable swaps etc. I look in one place and it says 'transparent film' driver and another which says 'red film' and I don't know what's what as it all goes out the window once someone opens it up and changes the original product! Can someone please tell me where I should look and recommend what to buy? BTW, I know I'll need an amp to get the best out of them.
> Thanks in advance!


You seem to be looking for the finished product of Yuin PK1.
If that's the case, I think you should ask your question in the Earbuds Round-Up thread (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/) instead of this DIY Earbuds thread.


----------



## rincewind

jogawag said:


> You seem to be looking for the finished product of Yuin PK1.
> If that's the case, I think you should ask your question in the Earbuds Round-Up thread (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/) instead of this DIY Earbuds thread.


Far out... I'm simply looking for the best PK1 style earbud, and conversation in a Facebook group resulted in someone recommending I post here because they implied it's better to get a modded version because it's cheaper or possibly better. Now I feel like I'm being bounced around multiple areas in a call centre!


----------



## vygas

jogawag said:


> As for the stores, if you are referring to Chitty's Store and DIY Earphone Tribe Store, I was told by Chitty's Store that they are both owned by Chitty.
> Leagginal Store is probably a newer store according to the number of followers, but I haven't checked.
> 
> And the "pro" in "sr2 pro" originally came from Chitty's Store on the finished product with silver plated cables.
> ...


Leagginal and QIGOM have recently opened up their own stores after Chitty and Tribe store basically just re-sold their products as a middle man, there's another store that Chitty still has exclusive access to but it doesn't have that many amazing things on it (unless you look at it on Taobao). I'd personally just avoid buying from Chitty since I've had some issues with them before but if you're able to haggle it down then it's more than worth it.


----------



## furyossa

vygas said:


> Leagginal and QIGOM have recently opened up their own stores after Chitty and Tribe store basically just re-sold their products as a middle man, there's another store that Chitty still has exclusive access to but it doesn't have that many amazing things on it (unless you look at it on Taobao). I'd personally just avoid buying from Chitty since I've had some issues with them before but if you're able to haggle it down then it's more than worth it.


So far I haven't had any problems with Chitty. They really have a large supply of parts, they are a bit expensive than other stores and have been on top for a long time. I also recommend them, especially to those users who want to try DIY buds and do not want or do not have the ability to assemble their own model, and Chitty can do it for them


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> On Ali you can find only 150ohm transparent film and 32ohm redfilm.


This one ?
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNfCxP3


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> This one ?
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNfCxP3


Yup. This model is build on request by @FranQL. He asked me to make a list of parts that would be great for PK1 150ohm "Transparent" and he asked Chitty Store to assemble a model for him. @FranQL is very happy with this model and as you can see, Chitty has decided to launch the same model.


----------



## FranQL

Review PK1 Clear Film 150 Ohm Chittys store  https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNfCxP3

Good afternoon everyone, as this bud has been talked about, I want to tell you about my impressions.

On the one hand, the salesman patiently endured me until he decided the configuration he wanted, and also assembled it. Well, I don't have that DIY skill. All components are recommendations of @furyossa 






It is the shell that gives me the best fit, so even though I have other buds my hands go to this one when choosing which one to use.
The sound is full clear and natural, with a nice tone, a very decent resolution, which is especially good with instrumental tracks, strings and guitars are excellent.
Nice female voices and protagonists, in place (neither forward nor backward), male, somewhat worse, but approved anyway.
Treble, as I like, that is, they are not bright or hiss, and they are more pleasant to listen to than the rest of my buds, they allow long listening sessions without fatigue.





Bass ... this is where the weakest is, but at the height of more expensive buds, forget about booming subwoofers, but in the mix I don't appreciate a lack of bass, it's just there.

In short, € 24, nice, comfortable, with a 2.5 jack to use with all my sources, without driving problems and with a very good sound, I can't ask for more.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> Review PK1 Clear Film 150 Ohm Chittys store  https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNfCxP3
> 
> Good afternoon everyone, as this bud has been talked about, I want to tell you about my impressions.
> 
> ...


Very nice presentation. In addition to this I will add that this balanced cable is assembled from "goddess" wire which is lightweight and excellent quality. 
This cable ends with Ranko Acoustics 2.5mm TRRS balanced plug


----------



## rincewind (May 25, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Very nice presentation.


Hey furyossa, thanks for your help so far. How does this bud compare to the original PK1? improvement, or just different? How so, in either case?


----------



## furyossa

rincewind said:


> Hey furyossa, thanks for your help so far. How does this bud compare to the original PK1? improvement, or just different? How so, in either case?


I am not tried original PK1


----------



## rincewind

Oh....

Has anyone here listened to the original PK1 that could compare them to the modded version linked a few posts above? 

I'm particularly wary of buying a cheaper, aftermarket version of the earbuds, then forever being in doubt whether they are as good as the rave reviews of the PK1 made them out to be


----------



## FranQL

If you want Yuin PK1, buy it, do not give it more laps. No one is going to guarantee that another bud sounds better or worse ... it is a simple bud, if you don't like it later, the world will not end.


----------



## rincewind

FranQL said:


> If you want Yuin PK1, buy it, do not give it more laps. No one is going to guarantee that another bud sounds better or worse ... it is a simple bud, if you don't like it later, the world will not end.


Done. Despite asking in multiple places (here, another thread, and 2 different Facebook groups), there didn't seem to be a widely known or accepted consensus that any of these modded versions are better or, for that matter, even as good as the original PK1.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 26, 2021)

rincewind said:


> Done. Despite asking in multiple places (here, another thread, and 2 different Facebook groups), there didn't seem to be a widely known or accepted consensus that any of these modded versions are better or, for that matter, even as good as the original PK1.


Though indeed a leap in price you could (and will) save yourself a huge headache and the deep heartache (hunting around for; worrying about the fit; and wondering if you are getting the original PK1 base sound) by simply purchasing either the *Shozy Cygnus* or *Shozy BK Stardust* and call it a day. Know that you are going to receive a god-tier upgrade of the original Yuin PK1 in comfort (same shell); improved cabling (definitely so); quality drivers (Japanese NOS); and better driver tuning (assuredly, as often recommended by *@ClieOS *himself back when he had an advertised *ranking list*.

The only other alternative is a gamble... throwing the proverbial dice on one of the many Yuin PK1 copies that are out there knowing full well that none are using the original drivers as they are no longer available. Some are good and others not so... however, due to their low price points and varying and constantly changing drivers no one is going to be able to give you solid advice and/or recommendation to which one to buy in comparison to the original. It is nearly impossible.


----------



## rincewind

WoodyLuvr said:


> The only other alternative is a gamble... throwing the proverbial dice on one of the many Yuin PK1 copies that are out there knowing full well that none are using the original drivers as they are no longer available. Some are good and others not so... however, due to their low price points and varying and constantly changing drivers no one is going to be able to give you solid advice and/or recommendation to which one to buy in comparison to the original. It is nearly impossible.


Thank you. This is the information I've been looking for since I first posted. Unfortunately (by the sounds of it), I've already ordered the PK1 from AliExpress.

At least now I have a couple of options to try in the future if needed...


----------



## vygas (May 26, 2021)

rincewind said:


> Oh....
> 
> Has anyone here listened to the original PK1 that could compare them to the modded version linked a few posts above?
> 
> I'm particularly wary of buying a cheaper, aftermarket version of the earbuds, then forever being in doubt whether they are as good as the rave reviews of the PK1 made them out to be


I have multiple pairs of the Nokia HDD-1, which is the bud where the PK1 got it's driver from. I've also put them in a PK shell but I still prefer the Shozy Cygnus over it. I like the Red Film driver in the shell the HDD-1 comes it as it gets a bit of a basslift which I felt was needed but it fell out of my rotation over time.


----------



## jeejack

Guys what shell do you use for 19 21 pink dot? It's too small for the MX500


----------



## PapyKahan

jeejack said:


> Guys what shell do you use for 19 21 pink dot? It's too small for the MX500


As far as I know this one should fit : https://a.aliexpress.com/_vlTGRF

It's recommended one into product description here : https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0zat3L


----------



## jeejack

PapyKahan said:


> As far as I know this one should fit : https://a.aliexpress.com/_vlTGRF
> will try in that wooden shell
> It's recommended one into product description here : https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0zat3L


Thx ! I will try in that wooden shell


----------



## earfanatic

One of my long docomo shells have aged foam inside, and it falls apart badly. 
I need a replacement, what is a good substitute?


----------



## vygas

earfanatic said:


> One of my long docomo shells have aged foam inside, and it falls apart badly.
> I need a replacement, what is a good substitute?


Chitty's and Tribe Store used to sell tuning foam but I'm not sure if they still do. Though you might be able to get away with using regular horse shoe foams used for tuning drivers instead.


----------



## jogawag (May 27, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> One of my long docomo shells have aged foam inside, and it falls apart badly.
> I need a replacement, what is a good substitute?





vygas said:


> Chitty's and Tribe Store used to sell tuning foam but I'm not sure if they still do. Though you might be able to get away with using regular horse shoe foams used for tuning drivers instead.


Docomo shells with long stems have increased mid-low range compared to PK shells, so we also use horseshoe-shaped "speaker tuning cotton" to reduce this.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000214445948.html


----------



## jeejack

PapyKahan said:


> As far as I know this one should fit : https://a.aliexpress.com/_vlTGRF
> 
> It's recommended one into product description here : https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0zat3L


I changed the faceplate and now it fits perfectly with the MX500 shell. 19 21 pink dot is awesome


----------



## earfanatic

vygas said:


> Chitty's and Tribe Store used to sell tuning foam but I'm not sure if they still do. Though you might be able to get away with using regular horse shoe foams used for tuning drivers instead.


I asked Chitty's, and they prepared a small pack for me for my next order. Very nice.


----------



## earfanatic

jogawag said:


> Docomo shells with long stems have increased mid-low range compared to PK shells, so we also use horseshoe-shaped "speaker tuning cotton" to reduce this.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000214445948.html


Is the horseshoe thicker, or different dense?


----------



## vygas

earfanatic said:


> Is the horseshoe thicker, or different dense?


I'd say similar thickness on the horseshoe, shame the sheets of foam I got from Chitty a while ago isn't in stock. They were thin but dense enough to make up the difference.


----------



## jogawag (May 27, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Is the horseshoe thicker, or different dense?


The thickness of the horseshoe is about 0.5mm. But dense is enough to make up the difference.
I have no other horseshoe than this one, so I can't compare.


----------



## earfanatic

I had this bad foam shell, and decided to move the driver to a proper one until I can repair. After I removed the last pieces of the foam, decided to try the 32ohm titanium in it, to expreiment with tuning, since I had this foamless shell.
Well, this driver benefit from less dampening.
Well, the setup I posted had a bit of V shape signature. With some tracks I missed the middle.
Most driver I tried got muffled without foam, but this one opened! A bit too much. Now I experiment with less dense materials like felt sheet with great success.
Now this is my favourite. 1mm felt on vent holes inside not really glued, the wire pressing it to the vent holes.


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> I had this bad foam shell, and decided to move the driver to a proper one until I can repair. After I removed the last pieces of the foam, decided to try the 32ohm titanium in it, to expreiment with tuning, since I had this foamless shell.
> Well, this driver benefit from less dampening.
> Well, the setup I posted had a bit of V shape signature. With some tracks I missed the middle.
> Most driver I tried got muffled without foam, but this one opened! A bit too much. Now I experiment with less dense materials like felt sheet with great success.
> Now this is my favourite. 1mm felt on vent holes inside not really glued, the wire pressing it to the vent holes.


I see you have pretty much fun with tuning 32ohm Ti. 
I didn't have patients with my 64ohm full Ti. Tried modded MX500 shells and at the end it finished metal shell


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> I see you have pretty much fun with tuning 32ohm Ti.
> I didn't have patients with my 64ohm full Ti. Tried modded MX500 shells and at the end it finished metal shell


Yes, the thing is, it always give good promises. It is something in this driver that pleases my brain.


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> Yes, the thing is, it always give good promises. It is something in this driver that pleases my brain.


I believe you.  This is not the case with 64ohm Ti but 48ohm 10mm Ti is the


----------



## rincewind

WoodyLuvr said:


> Though indeed a leap in price you could (and will) save yourself a huge headache and the deep heartache (hunting around for; worrying about the fit; and wondering if you are getting the original PK1 base sound) by simply purchasing either the *Shozy Cygnus* or *Shozy BK Stardust* and call it a day. Know that you are going to receive a god-tier upgrade of the original Yuin PK1 in comfort (same shell); improved cabling (definitely so); quality drivers (Japanese NOS); and better driver tuning (assuredly, as often recommended by *@ClieOS *himself back when he had an advertised *ranking list*.
> 
> The only other alternative is a gamble... throwing the proverbial dice on one of the many Yuin PK1 copies that are out there knowing full well that none are using the original drivers as they are no longer available. Some are good and others not so... however, due to their low price points and varying and constantly changing drivers no one is going to be able to give you solid advice and/or recommendation to which one to buy in comparison to the original. It is nearly impossible.


Now I have the Shozy BK on it's way too. Why do they call it 'Stardust'? I've only seen it called Shozy BK...


----------



## furyossa

rincewind said:


> Now I have the Shozy BK on it's way too. Why do they call it 'Stardust'? I've only seen it called Shozy BK...


Stardust is their nickname


----------



## WoodyLuvr

rincewind said:


> Now I have the Shozy BK on it's way too. Why do they call it 'Stardust'? I've only seen it called Shozy BK...





furyossa said:


> Stardust is their nickname


As in the famously warm and mellow jazz/country song "Stardust".  The BK is known for it's warm and relaxing signature so was aptly dubbed "Stardust" by early customers.


----------



## ClieOS (May 28, 2021)

Actually 'BK' is the original name used by Shozy when the earbuds was sold in China, especially during the pre-order stage. BK is short for Black, as its Chinese name is 大黑 (big black). Shozy used the 'Stardust' name when they started selling it in the international market, which I presumed is because it is more catchy, though it is already a bit late since most have known it as BK.


----------



## furyossa

ClieOS said:


> Actually 'BK' is the original name used by Shozy when the earbuds was sold in China, especially during the pre-order stage. BK is short for Black, as its Chinese name is 大黑 (big black). Shozy used the 'Stardust' name when they started selling it in the international market, which I presumed is because it is more catchy, though it is already a bit late since most have known it as BK.


Great info.   This model is still at the top of your list?


----------



## jogawag

I lost my real Shozy BK in the disaster and it was already sold out at Penon Audio at that time.

So, as I posted here before, I asked @assassin10000 to make my docomo shell MMCX-compatible, and I bought a MMCX 2.5mm cable from Penon Audio, the same as the Shozy BK cable, to complete the jogawag version of the Shozy BK.

As @ClieOS said, listening to Shozy BK with a balanced source is amazing as it extends the bass and treble and creates a much larger soundstage.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

ClieOS said:


> Actually 'BK' is the original name used by Shozy when the earbuds was sold in China, especially during the pre-order stage. BK is short for Black, as its Chinese name is 大黑 (big black). Shozy used the 'Stardust' name when they started selling it in the international market, which I presumed is because it is more catchy, though it is already a bit late since most have known it as BK.


The earbud god has spoken!


----------



## ClieOS

furyossa said:


> Great info.   This model is still at the top of your list?


Perhaps not at the very top anymore, it's still among the best.


----------



## furyossa

WoodyLuvr said:


> The earbud god has spoken!


Like a thunder from the sky, but only briefly


----------



## furyossa

ClieOS said:


> Perhaps not at the very top anymore, it's still among the best.


If there was a "The Magnificent Seven" list I guess this model would be among them.  
Looking at the IEM market, Shozy has a diverse offer whose design and quality are at a really enviable level.
But as far as earbuds are concerned, this is not the case. The drivers they use are ok, but I'm surprised they haven't been able to do their original shell design in all this time since they have some of the most beautiful shells for IEMs especially for the Black Hole and Black Hole Mini


----------



## earfanatic

earfanatic said:


> Most driver I tried got muffled without foam, but this one opened! A bit too much.


Well, even with 1mm felt as filter it gives me fatigue quickly, it is resonating. I have to dampen the shell somehow, but it will decrease cavity volume at the same time.


----------



## golov17

earfanatic said:


> Well, even with 1mm felt as filter it gives me fatigue quickly, it is resonating. I have to dampen the shell somehow, but it will decrease cavity volume at the same time.


I sometimes add half or a whole thin foam from VE Expack inside the housing earbuds, it works for me


----------



## assassin10000

I've used a small bit torn out of a cotton ball inside metal housings.


----------



## earfanatic

golov17 said:


> I sometimes add half or a whole thin foam from VE Expack inside the housing earbuds, it works for me





assassin10000 said:


> I've used a small bit torn out of a cotton ball inside metal housings.


Thank You, thank You!


----------



## robar (May 29, 2021)

Hey there.  I just wanted to share a recent purchase, I bought these shells out of curiosity but feel stupid now. The materials are decent, stem is removable, but the comfort is horrible. The sharp edge on the housing is right where the earbud sits in my ears. So it basically feels like a sharp metal object constantly pushing into my ears. I haven't bothered using it yet, so I'm not sure how it sounds. Maybe I'll try it out if I'll be desperate or find a solution to soften the edge. But I'd not recommend this thing for sure.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002370366690.html

I haven't made anything interesting recently, just some casual builds with the N50 red rim steel mesh drivers. I still like this model because it comfortable, sits tight even without glue and always arrived in perfect condition with good channel matching.


BTW, please help me choose between these shells. Finally the shipping costs came down so I'd like to try one of them. The first one is my top choice right now, I have no experience though with any of them. It would be a plus if the driver would fit well without glue. The 1st and 3rd looks very similar but not exactly the same either. Any info on these?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000173977762.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001399352072.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002436030966.html


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Hey there.  I just wanted to share a recent purchase, I bought these shells out of curiosity but feel stupid now. The materials are decent, stem is removable, but the comfort is horrible. The sharp edge on the housing is right where the earbud sits in my ears. So it basically feels like a sharp metal object constantly pushing into my ears. I haven't bothered using it yet, so I'm not sure how it sounds. Maybe I'll try it out if I'll be desperate or find a solution to soften the edge. But I'd not recommend this thing for sure.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002370366690.html
> 
> I haven't made anything interesting recently, just some casual builds with the N50 red rim steel mesh drivers. I still like this model because it comfortable, sits tight even without glue and always arrived in perfect condition with good channel matching.
> ...


See my inventory. There are some examples and info for metalic shels.


----------



## jogawag

robar said:


> Hey there.  I just wanted to share a recent purchase, I bought these shells out of curiosity but feel stupid now. The materials are decent, stem is removable, but the comfort is horrible. The sharp edge on the housing is right where the earbud sits in my ears. So it basically feels like a sharp metal object constantly pushing into my ears. I haven't bothered using it yet, so I'm not sure how it sounds. Maybe I'll try it out if I'll be desperate or find a solution to soften the edge. But I'd not recommend this thing for sure.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002370366690.html
> 
> I haven't made anything interesting recently, just some casual builds with the N50 red rim steel mesh drivers. I still like this model because it comfortable, sits tight even without glue and always arrived in perfect condition with good channel matching.
> ...


I think the first one is the OPENHEART earbuds shell below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001185272588.html


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> I think the first one is the OPENHEART earbuds shell below.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001185272588.html


OPENHEART use this DIY shell, it's not created by them. I tried this shell before OPENHEART start saling their buds.


----------



## robar (May 29, 2021)

furyossa said:


> See my inventory. There are some examples and info for metalic shels.


Yeah I've checked out your previous posts, I found your impressions on the 3rd shell from my list, but not on 1st and 2nd, this is why I asked here. 

@jogawag Yes this is a popular shell nowadays in diy buds, Fengru and other brands also have buds with them, using probably low end drivers with bad tuning. But I want to put the 19-21 red dot drivers in it or the 64ohm blue dot titanium, and possibly try to de-mmcx the shell too to reduce bulk. (I have some screw-in and rubber stems from other shells, maybe one of them fits)


----------



## furyossa (May 29, 2021)

robar said:


> Yeah I've checked out your previous posts, I found your impressions on the 3rd shell from my list, but not on 1st and 2nd, this is why I asked here.
> 
> @jogawag Yes this is a popular shell nowadays in diy buds, Fengru and other brands also have buds with them, using probably low end drivers with bad tuning. But I want to put the 19-21 red dot drivers in it or the 64ohm blue dot titanium, and possibly try to de-mmcx the shell too to reduce bulk. (I have some screw-in and rubber stems from other shells, maybe one of them fits)


It'a the same shell, only difference is the color  paint. I will skip 2nd because I have problem with soldering with some silver and black mmcx connectors probably because paint coat or material.
Black shell (130ohm Bery) and Silver shell (64ohm full Ti)






BTW... how are you man? Long time, no see


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> It'a the same shell, only difference is the color  paint. I will skip 2nd because I have problem with soldering with some silver and black mmcx connectors probably because paint coat or material.
> Black shell (130ohm Bery) and Silver shell (64ohm full Ti)
> 
> 
> BTW... how are you man? Long time, no see


Ah thanks so much, these are indeed the shells I'm thinking about  I'm ok thanks, I haven't been active lately in terms of DIY, I only bought useless earpads since january and now preparing a casual earbud for gift purposes. (using the N50 driver, currently thinking about which shell to use - boring black mx500 or shiny midcentric DP100 transparent)

This needs glue to keep mx500 driver in place, right? Do you think it's possible to unscrew the mmcx connector and use the shell with fixed cable? Even just as a temporary solution, maybe I could even use the stem from the shell I posted or modify the rubber stem of the wooden shells to fit… I have so much unused stuff lying around, do you want some?


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Ah thanks so much, these are indeed the shells I'm thinking about  I'm ok thanks, I haven't been active lately in terms of DIY, I only bought useless earpads since january and now preparing a casual earbud for gift purposes. (using the N50 driver, currently thinking about which shell to use - boring black mx500 or shiny midcentric DP100 transparent)
> 
> This needs glue to keep mx500 driver in place, right? Do you think it's possible to unscrew the mmcx connector and use the shell with fixed cable? Even just as a temporary solution, maybe I could even use the stem from the shell I posted or modify the rubber stem of the wooden shells to fit… I have so much unused stuff lying around, do you want some?


I don't like this shell because you need to use glue for mmcx and for the driver, See B- detail. Stem has no threads, just one small "tooth" holding the connector





This shells are much better option, fit wise and no require glue. For the mmcx you need shrink tube and a little to process the "lip" with a file because the connection with the cover is very tight.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> I have so much unused stuff lying around, do you want some?


 Same here. Because of shipping problem I didn't order anything from Ali last 17 months. I have plenty of parts but no new drivers 
Anyway ...I already have enough models which I enjoy, so I'm not bored


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> I don't like this shell because you need to use glue for mmcx and for the driver, See B- detail. Stem has no threads, just one small "tooth" holding the connector
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks  Sadly it's 3x more, so out of my budget at the moment.. for that money I'd actually prefer that newer open back I showed you few months ago, that would be awesome  Maybe I'll try the pink dot titanium instead but I don't really want to risk fragile drivers again, buying shells is less stressful


----------



## furyossa (May 29, 2021)

robar said:


> Thanks  Sadly it's 3x more, so out of my budget at the moment.. for that money I'd actually prefer that newer open back I showed you few months ago, that would be awesome  Maybe I'll try the pink dot titanium instead but I don't really want to risk fragile drivers again, buying shells is less stressful


Yup. That shell is awesome but I missed the train Just imagine that shell and 500ohm graphene... mmmmmm


----------



## robar (May 29, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Yup. That shell is awesome but I missed the train Just imagine that shell and 500ohm graphene... mmmmmm


Must be pretty nice.. 14usd is not that high for such a shell but still I really don't know why it cost so much in cheaper stores too like nsc or jietu..
For those who don't know which shell we're talking about: https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0LC3o1

Btw I noticed that shipping fee is a lot cheaper if I set the currency to USD (from my local one), it unlocks a shipping method called aliexpress saver. Maybe it's worth a check for you as well. 

Has anyone tried this thin metal mmcx shell since I last asked? 
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPRtHup


----------



## caracal

Could please anyone who knows remind how the thickness of white horseshoe tuning paper/cotton affects the sound?
There are various types of thickness from some sellers on ali, ranging usually from Y2 (the thinnest) to Y5 or Y6 (the thickest).


----------



## earfanatic

PK1 150Ohm Transparent-film:
What do You know about these? It looks like old stock, but has no red tint in the diaphragm. Are these made in the same factory than red-film?


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> PK1 150Ohm Transparent-film:
> What do You know about these? It looks like old stock, but has no red tint in the diaphragm. Are these made in the same factory than red-film?


Probably yes, and you have transparent, pink and red film versions. Different coating make them sound differently. "Red" is the king, "Clear" is the queen and "Pink" is probably the princess.


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Probably yes, and you have transparent, pink and red film versions. Different coating make them sound differently. "Red" is the king, "Clear" is the queen and "Pink" is probably the princess.


Okay, I wander what is the color code for the paint they use these days.  Are those really different material or tinted to make it distinct?


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> Okay, I wander what is the color code for the paint they use these days.  Are those really different material or tinted to make it distinct?


Is different coating material it's not the tint


----------



## golov17

Interesting fix


----------



## furyossa

golov17 said:


> Interesting fix


Yup. We can use also chewing gum


----------



## earfanatic

I have a Dayton IMM-6 on the way. Did You guys had any luck measuring earbuds with this?
I want an easy diy adapter for at least comparing earbuds, and tuning visually on FR graph.


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> I have a Dayton IMM-6 on the way. Did You guys had any luck measuring earbuds with this?
> I want an easy diy adapter for at least comparing earbuds, and tuning visually on FR graph.


You can find on this thread info about DIY rig and parts. @assassin10000 have probably the best DIY coupler here.
You already saw 3D printed "ear canal" like coupler.
This is the tutorial to setup your measurement rig


----------



## jeejack

Hi guys ! What to choose ? 600 ohms, 500 ohms or something else? I keep an eye on LCP drivers as well


----------



## furyossa

I own 400Ω "Graphene" and 600Ω "Beryllium". 500Ω "Graphene" has similar freq. curve like 600Ω but because
different coating, they not sound the same. BTW ... I didn't buy 500Ω
400Ω has more balanced sound across all frequencies while 600Ω has better low end (authoritative bass) 
400Ω can work on mobile devices like LG smartphones but the full potential is just being revealed 
on the stronger sources (DAC/AMP). 500Ω and 600Ω don't buy if you not have good source


----------



## jeejack (Jun 1, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I own 400Ω "Graphene" and 600Ω "Beryllium". 500Ω "Graphene" has similar freq. curve like 600Ω but because
> different coating, they not sound the same. BTW ... I didn't buy 500Ω
> 400Ω has more balanced sound across all frequencies while 600Ω has better low end (authoritative bass)
> 400Ω can work on mobile devices like LG smartphones but the full potential is just being revealed
> on the stronger sources (DAC/AMP). 500Ω and 600Ω don't buy if you not have good source


I have 400ohm drivers that I love. Do you think that the 600 ohms are like the 400 but with better low end? I ask this because the 400 ohm ones, as I like, lack the bass. I have something to drive them with. Xduoo XD05 plus and Fiio Q3


----------



## furyossa (Jun 1, 2021)

jeejack said:


> I have 400ohm drivers that I love. Do you think that the 600 ohms are like the 400 but with better low end? I ask this because the 400 ohm ones, as I like, lack the bass. I have something to drive them with. Xduoo XD05 plus and Fiio Q3


With Xduoo and Fiio you are good to go 
With 600Ω you will not get same highs as 400Ω, but bass...oh boy. Quantity is good but also quality and clean presentation.
It's a different beast. IMO this is the good driver which justify the price.
And just to prove the point, why do you think I chose those beautiful shells for them both?


----------



## jeejack

Thanks bro! You made me add a new good pair of earbuds to the collection.
Do you think these shells are ok for them?


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Thanks bro! You made me add a new good pair of earbuds to the collection.
> Do you think these shells are ok for them?


Me and @robar comment about these few posts back. Also, you have in my inventory some mod examples where I explained in details pros and cons for some metallic shells.
The shell that cache my attention is this one, and I really like to try them one day


----------



## golov17

Has someone met a good driver for Ali 15mm? 🤔


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> You can find on this thread info about DIY rig and parts. @assassin10000 have probably the best DIY coupler here.
> You already saw 3D printed "ear canal" like coupler.
> This is the tutorial to setup your measurement rig


Thank You for the reminder. I will dig into that tutorial when I get a coupler. I asked a silicone part shop if they have something I could use.


----------



## earfanatic (Jun 1, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Me and @robar comment about these few posts back. Also, you have in my inventory some mod examples where I explained in details pros and cons for some metallic shells.
> The shell that cache my attention is this one, and I really like to try them one day


I have one of that blue shiny shell on the way, in 14.8mm size. I'll let You khow how it works when I have it in my hand.
I also should have ordered matching cables for it.


----------



## furyossa

golov17 said:


> Has someone met a good driver for Ali 15mm? 🤔


???
You mean good 15.4mm DIY driver from Ali?


----------



## golov17

furyossa said:


> ???
> You mean good 15.4mm DIY driver from Ali?


Not 15.4


----------



## furyossa

golov17 said:


> Not 15.4


I haven't seen a DIY 15.0mm driver so far
Only 15.4mm, 14.8, 14.2, 13.5, 11, 10 etc


----------



## robar (Jun 1, 2021)

@golov17  This is the only 15mm I've seen recently, no idea how it sounds though. Maybe it would be wise to ask the seller if it's really 15mm, I ahve a couple of shells that could use something like this
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002605243754.html


----------



## furyossa (Jun 1, 2021)

robar said:


> @golov17  This is the only 15mm I've seen recently, no idea how it sounds though. Maybe it would be wise to ask the seller if it's really 15mm, I ahve a couple of shells that could use something like this
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002605243754.html


It's looks similar as A8 driver. I find two versions 15mm i 14.2mm
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000064688327.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32689976516.html

This is an old driver. It seems that the cover is made from soft plastic or hard rubber and can conform on PK or even MX500 *maybe no(


----------



## furyossa

There are few more on chitty's store but without any info.
This one is the combo of 15mm+7mm driver stolen from some earbuds. i don't know if it can fit in any of the earbud housings because of its thickness
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002646935935.html
Another A8 but with bass port (maybe this is OG)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2045435599.html
Is this one has resistor on the back?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2045383096.html


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> Me and @robar comment about these few posts back. Also, you have in my inventory some mod examples where I explained in details pros and cons for some metallic shells.
> The shell that cache my attention is this one, and I really like to try them one day


Indeed very beautiful shells. I order the silver ones for 600ohm. If they are what I need I will take the black and blue ones for 19 21 red dot and 130ohm beryllium drivers


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> I haven't seen a DIY 15.0mm driver so far
> Only 15.4mm, 14.8, 14.2, 13.5, 11, 10 etc





golov17 said:


> Has someone met a good driver for Ali 15mm? 🤔


To be honest, the 32ohm Titanium 14.8mm what I have is more likely 15mm as well, as it needed some more space to fit in than regularly.


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> Hi guys ! What to choose ? 600 ohms, 500 ohms or something else? I keep an eye on LCP drivers as well


Take the 500, much better then the 600, its like the 600 with highs...


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> Take the 500, much better then the 600, its like the 600 with highs...


I know only 400 ohm. I like them very much. If the 500 or 600 ohm is similar to the 400 but with more bass would be perfect. So which one to be?


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> I know only 400 ohm. I like them very much. If the 500 or 600 ohm is similar to the 400 but with more bass would be perfect. So which one to be?


Skip the 600, I don't know why everyone hyped the 600 so much, it's like the 400, with less sub bass, and nothing over 14-15kz, basically it's freq resp is 60hz to 14kz, it is a horrible driver for the money, I have tuned them every way possible, had to buy a second pair because the first broke during tuning
Tried different shells, but no mater what, you can't get the highs up. in its stock form, it's just OK, pretty good if you don't plan on tuning anything
But if you want details and bass, any high impedance driver is better
The 500ohm are so much better that I got angry at myself for trying so hard with the 600
The 600, in stock form is not bad, but the 500ohm runs circles around it, in the sub bass it blows the 600 out the water, and in the highs, the 500ohm eats the 600 like a snack


I would rate the 600 ohm, just above the 300ohm without tuning, after tuning, anything is better then it, the 19-21 pink is much better then it is


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> Skip the 600, I don't know why everyone hyped the 600 so much, it's like the 400, with less sub bass, and nothing over 14-15kz, basically it's freq resp is 60hz to 14kz, it is a horrible driver for the money, I have tuned them every way possible, had to buy a second pair because the first broke during tuning
> Tried different shells, but no mater what, you can't get the highs up. in its stock form, it's just OK, pretty good if you don't plan on tuning anything
> But if you want details and bass, any high impedance driver is better
> The 500ohm are so much better that I got angry at myself for trying so hard with the 600
> ...


Bro in conclusion worth to buy 500 ohm if i have the 400 , 300, 150, 130 bery ohm drivers?


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Bro in conclusion worth to buy 500 ohm if i have the 400 , 300, 150, 130 bery ohm drivers?


So you buy them all, only 500 and 600 left. Now is easy, go with next number (500ohm) and 600ohm another time.
There are no other choice if you are high impedance lover.
For some time the situation for DIY drivers has not changed, from time to time some mediocre driver up to 120 ohms comes out and that's it.


----------



## jeejack

@furyossa , @Themilkman46290 
the idea is that I don't feel like paying this money if it's not worth it or just for the sake of the collection. If there really are good drivers like 130, 400 or 19 21 then I would buy with great pleasure.
BTW how did you tune the 300 ohm driver. I use the one from RY4S


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> @furyossa , @Themilkman46290
> the idea is that I don't feel like paying this money if it's not worth it or just for the sake of the collection. If there really are good drivers like 130, 400 or 19 21 then I would buy with great pleasure.
> BTW how did you tune the 300 ohm driver. I use the one from RY4S


@Themilkman46290 has already answered the question which driver is better. I don't have a 500ohm version, so I can't say which is better 
and I certainly believe @Themilkman46290. I like both 400ohm and 600ohm (i'm treble sensitive so treble roll-off after 14kHz don't bother me that much)
Also, I don't have RY4S 300ohm


----------



## Themilkman46290

Honestly, if you don't mind a treble roll after 14, take the 120 14.8mm, remove the stock tuning and the second filter on the back of the magnet, they became one of the hardest hitting next to the ti composite 64ohm, but I need the treble. Want the details.

If you want decent balance, and extremely rumbly sub bass, the 64ohm ti composite is the best I have.
If you want something more balance with good sub bass try the 500ohm
It is a little better then the 400ohm but has a wee bit better mids and a little less highs (depending on the tuning)
It's like the 600ohm but it's more detailed, it has more sub bass and highs


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> Honestly, if you don't mind a treble roll after 14, take the 120 14.8mm, remove the stock tuning and the second filter on the back of the magnet, they became one of the hardest hitting next to the ti composite 64ohm, but I need the treble. Want the details.
> 
> If you want decent balance, and extremely rumbly sub bass, the 64ohm ti composite is the best I have.
> If you want something more balance with good sub bass try the 500ohm
> ...


) now it's even harder for me to choose something. only the 500 and 600 ohms are missing. Apart from Nicehck B40 I have nothing with PK shell. Should I try these drivers or take the 500 ohm one


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> ) now it's even harder for me to choose something. only the 500 and 600 ohms are missing. Apart from Nicehck B40 I have nothing with PK shell. Should I try these drivers or take the 500 ohm one




I really like the 500ohm, been using them a lot lately.
But if you just want crazy sub bass/ bass, 64ohm ti composite beats everything I have
If you want highs, sub bass and clean mids take the 500ohm


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> I really like the 500ohm, been using them a lot lately.
> But if you just want crazy sub bass/ bass, 64ohm ti composite beats everything I have
> If you want highs, sub bass and clean mids take the 500ohm


Thanks bro! 64 ohms ti I'm waiting to receive it, they arrived at customs. So 500 ohms will be.


----------



## golov17

Guys, which sounds no worse than beryllium 130 ohm, but with a thicker mids? 🤔


----------



## jeejack

golov17 said:


> Guys, which sounds no worse than beryllium 130 ohm, but with a thicker mids? 🤔


400 ohm with bass boost from Amp . Have you try this with 130ohm driver?


----------



## golov17

jeejack said:


> 400 ohm with bass boost from Amp . Have you try this with 130ohm driver?


no, because  I have no complaints about bass, just the driver is great for modern mastering, but when playing audiophile jazz, its mids sound thin and lifeless for me, IMHO


----------



## 730user

golov17 said:


> no, because  I have no complaints about bass, just the driver is great for modern mastering, but when playing audiophile jazz, its mids sound thin and lifeless for me, IMHO


400 ohm graphene driver is universal. I listen to rock and chill out and online radio on it. If you don't have it, buy it.


----------



## Themilkman46290

golov17 said:


> no, because  I have no complaints about bass, just the driver is great for modern mastering, but when playing audiophile jazz, its mids sound thin and lifeless for me, IMHO


The best mids I have would be the 600ohm and the 68ohm, I would grab the 68ohm, it doesn't have any sub bass but bass is quick, mids and highs are really good


----------



## robar (Jun 3, 2021)

golov17 said:


> no, because  I have no complaints about bass, just the driver is great for modern mastering, but when playing audiophile jazz, its mids sound thin and lifeless for me, IMHO


What shell do you use it in? If it 's mx500 for example, maybe try it in an open back shell or wooden shell, or play with the tuning material on the driver. I think this could be a tuning/shell issue, altough I don't have the 130ohm myself. If you really like the build otherwise, I'd just build another one with different shell/tuning and compare the two side by side. Of course feel free to try out new drivers if you'd like, this is just my 2 cents


----------



## furyossa

golov17 said:


> Guys, which sounds no worse than beryllium 130 ohm, but with a thicker mids? 🤔


Our opinions may be different because all of us who own these drivers use different tuning and different shells, but that's kind of good because you can hear all the features and capabilities the driver has.


Themilkman46290 said:


> The best mids I have would be the 600ohm and the 68ohm, I would grab the 68ohm, it doesn't have any sub bass but bass is quick, mids and highs are really good


Great suggestion, Second-best thing on 600ohm aka. "Papa Bery" are mids.


robar said:


> What shell do you use it in? If it 's mx500 for example, maybe try it in an open back shell or wooden shell, or play with the tuning material on the driver. I think this could be a tuning/shell issue, altough I don't have the 130ohm myself.


Another good suggestion. This driver performs best, at least for me, in medium cavity sides metal shell. In my inventory you can find 3 different mods for this driver


----------



## sunsun89

Hi, anyone tried this earbud? Is it good?

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mspuHLL


----------



## jeejack

sunsun89 said:


> Hi, anyone tried this earbud? Is it good?
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mspuHLL


Very good


----------



## furyossa

sunsun89 said:


> Hi, anyone tried this earbud? Is it good?
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mspuHLL


Go with this TG-38s version https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32435966900.html
These are not original Tingo buds (maybe only driver) but still sound good. The cable is similar like TC200 but much softer


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> The best mids I have would be the 600ohm and the 68ohm, I would grab the 68ohm, it doesn't have any sub bass but bass is quick, mids and highs are really good


I like 19 21 red dot in Tingo TC200 shell for that


----------



## sunsun89

furyossa said:


> Go with this TG-38s version https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32435966900.html
> These are not original Tingo buds (maybe only driver) but still sound good. The cable is similar like TC200 but much softer


this one better compare to fengru diy tc200?

i only have toneking tp16, it sound good to me, if i buy TG-38 it will consider upgrade or not?
thanks for the reply


----------



## sunsun89

jeejack said:


> Very good


how this one compare to TG38? which one do you prefer?


----------



## furyossa

sunsun89 said:


> this one better compare to fengru diy tc200?
> 
> i only have toneking tp16, it sound good to me, if i buy TG-38 it will consider upgrade or not?
> thanks for the reply


TG-38s is step above i.e. best buds in Tingo lineup. So you have TC200, TC300, TC400 (avoid for any cause) and TG-38s


----------



## sunsun89

furyossa said:


> TG-38s is step above i.e. best buds in Tingo lineup. So you have TC200, TC300, TC400 (avoid for any cause) and TG-38s


TG-38s VS Openheart, which one you prefer? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001185272588.html
because it cost the same price with TG-38s


----------



## jeejack

sunsun89 said:


> how this one compare to TG38? which one do you prefer?


Ask here  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/


----------



## furyossa

sunsun89 said:


> TG-38s VS Openheart, which one you prefer? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001185272588.html
> because it cost the same price with TG-38s


Openheart is basically DIY buds, probably driver similar as TC200 (mediocre) and metal shell you can find in few DIY sores on Ali. 
Sounds wise, I didn't find similar 32ohm driver like TG-38s driver


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Ask here  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/


He will get the same answer there, on that thread I have commented on the Tingo lineup several times


----------



## furyossa (Jun 4, 2021)

sunsun89 said:


> TG-38s VS Openheart, which one you prefer? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001185272588.html
> because it cost the same price with TG-38s


If you want mmcx version of Tingo silver shell and also better sound then TC200 then you can try these RY4s Plus buds, 
which are the best sounding buds that you can find for $8.


----------



## sunsun89

furyossa said:


> He will get the same answer there, on that thread I have commented on the Tingo lineup several times


sorry if i post at wrong thread 


furyossa said:


> Openheart is basically DIY buds, probably driver similar as TC200 (mediocre) and metal shell you can find in few DIY sores on Ali.
> Sounds wise, I didn't find similar 32ohm driver like TG-38s driver


oo ic, so TG-38s still more superior, thanks for the feedback. i will buy TG-38s.


----------



## furyossa

sunsun89 said:


> sorry if i post at wrong thread
> 
> oo ic, so TG-38s still more superior, thanks for the feedback. i will buy TG-38s.


Yup it has better details. If you have some spare mmcx cables, consider also RY4S Plus


----------



## sunsun89

furyossa said:


> Yup it has better details. If you have some spare mmcx cables, consider also RY4S Plus


ry4s have 3 different type. Plus, normal, 300ohm. which one i should choose? 
the sound detail have the same level with tg38s?


----------



## furyossa

sunsun89 said:


> ry4s have 3 different type. Plus, normal, 300ohm. which one i should choose?
> the sound detail have the same level with tg38s?


Plus version(last image on the Ali) . Didn't try 300ohm but for them I sugest Amp/Dac device. They are fun sounding buds and the SQ is very good for the price. Tg-38s don't has the same bass quantity but it has detailed treble


----------



## golov17 (Jun 3, 2021)

Btw, TG38s too bright for my ears... But that was original, not sure about these that are being sold now.  In the end, I gave them to the girl & she is happy ))


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> Plus version(last image on the Ali) . Didn't try 300ohm but for them I sugest Amp/Dac device. They are fun sounding buds and the SQ is very good for the price. Tg-38s don't has the same bass quantity but it has detailed treble


Skip RY4S 300 ohm version


----------



## furyossa

golov17 said:


> Btw, TG38s too bright for my ears... But that was original, not sure about these that are being sold now.  In the end, I gave them to the girl & she is happy ))


Yup this one has a little a spark in the treble but after break-in period,  the sound balanced quite nicely. I'm treble sensitive and these buds are on the verge of having bright trebles which bothers me the most


----------



## golov17

furyossa said:


> Yup this one has a little a spark in the treble but after break-in period,  the sound balanced quite nicely. I'm treble sensitive and these buds are on the verge of having bright trebles which bothers me the most


for this there is Blox be7 mk1 😆


----------



## vygas

furyossa said:


> Yup this one has a little a spark in the treble but after break-in period,  the sound balanced quite nicely. I'm treble sensitive and these buds are on the verge of having bright trebles which bothers me the most


I can second this, they're a persistent yet hidden gem. TinGo still actually sells the TG-38s and the TC300 on their Taobao page, both of which can be terminated for MMCX or have a higher quality cable.


----------



## jeejack

Wish me luck guys !


----------



## jeejack

No luck !


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> No luck !


Problem with soldering I guess?


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> Problem with soldering I guess?


I have no idea ! I threw it in the trash. I didn't even check anything with a multimeter


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> I have no idea ! I threw it in the trash. I didn't even check anything with a multimeter


Voice coil wire is too thin and to solder this wire is the pain in the a..


----------



## jeejack

I ordered another pair, along with the cheap 64 ohm TI, 32 ohm N50, 500 ohm and the shell you like


----------



## furyossa

Wow! now I understand why you throw away previous driver


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> Voice coil wire is too thin and to solder this wire is the pain in the a..


It looked like a correct solder. That's why I threw it away because I was upset )


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> Wow! now I understand why you throw away previous driver


I changed their faceplates to fit the MX500 shell but I didn't glue them. The next day when I wanted to play with their tuning, it got out of hand


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> I changed their faceplates to fit the MX500 shell but I didn't glue them. The next day when I wanted to play with their tuning, it got out of hand


Don't worry, you're not the only one who have these problems.   I’ve noticed that with DIY drivers this happens less often than with branded models.


----------



## earfanatic (Jun 6, 2021)

For those who are planning to measure eaphones with a microphone and looking for an acoustic coupler or adaptor...
Why I did not found this before?!
Look! It is said the ear canal is real inside. Only need a hole for the mic, aka. eardrum.
Ali link


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Don't worry, you're not the only one who have these problems.   I’ve noticed that with DIY drivers this happens less often than with branded models.


Nice avatar dude, I have been reading Aaron mcgruders comics since I was in highschool back in the early 2000's when I was living in d.c.


----------



## robar

New driver, quite pricey
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPCY8FR


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> For those who are planning to measure eaphones with a microphone and looking for an acoustic coupler or adaptor...
> Why I did not found this before?!
> Look! It is said the ear canal is real inside. Only need a hole for the mic, aka. eardrum.
> Ali link


Yup. I saw somewhere whole DIY rig, with professional mic in combo with silicon ear but can't remember where.
Also, these ears can be used in the process of design of shell for fit and size adjustment


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Nice avatar dude, I have been reading Aaron mcgruders comics since I was in highschool back in the early 2000's when I was living in d.c.


Looks cool, especially in this famous pose


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> New driver, quite pricey
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPCY8FR


I already post it here
It's a "mysterious" driver for sure


----------



## vygas

furyossa said:


> I already post it here
> It's a "mysterious" driver for sure


Is it me or is that LCP driver suspiciously smaller than other MX500 drivers? Could just be me needing glasses . Either way I'm tempted to make a sleeping bud from the 130ohm variant of them, anyone here tried the 130ohm or only the 32ohm?


----------



## Themilkman46290

vygas said:


> Is it me or is that LCP driver suspiciously smaller than other MX500 drivers? Could just be me needing glasses . Either way I'm tempted to make a sleeping bud from the 130ohm variant of them, anyone here tried the 130ohm or only the 32ohm?


There's a 130ohm lcp driver?

Any got a link?


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> There's a 130ohm lcp driver?
> 
> Any got a link?


15.4mm 32ohm 130ohm Driver LCP Diaphragm Film Driver Speaker Unit for Earbuds Earphones Accessories 115db (2pcs) https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPZGlOt


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> 15.4mm 32ohm 130ohm Driver LCP Diaphragm Film Driver Speaker Unit for Earbuds Earphones Accessories 115db (2pcs) https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPZGlOt


Hmmmmmmm, just when I get out, you guys keep pulling me back in!
Has anyone tried it yet?


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> 15.4mm 32ohm 130ohm Driver LCP Diaphragm Film Driver Speaker Unit for Earbuds Earphones Accessories 115db (2pcs) https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPZGlOt


Thanks, might have to grab them next month


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> 15.4mm 32ohm 130ohm Driver LCP Diaphragm Film Driver Speaker Unit for Earbuds Earphones Accessories 115db (2pcs) https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPZGlOt


Here we go new kid in the tribe


Themilkman46290 said:


> Hmmmmmmm, just when I get out, you guys keep pulling me back in!
> Has anyone tried it yet?


I also tried to retire but how, last two times @robar posted some new arrivals and I didn't sleep that night 
At least you are lucky because your country is not on Ali black list 
 Also, you're a "fire starter", you changed my mind about it "Papa Bery 600Ω", now I dream about 500Ω.


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Here we go new kid in the tribe
> 
> I also tried to retire but how, last two times @robar posted some new arrivals and I didn't sleep that night
> At least you are lucky because your country is not on Ali black list
> Also, you're a "fire starter", you changed my mind about it "Papa Bery 600Ω", now I dream about 500Ω.


The 500ohm has that bit of high end and low end that the 600 papa was missing, I don't think you will regret it, I've got it in a mx500 shell with a 0.8mm hole and y5 paper, sounds pretty good.......


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> Here we go new kid in the tribe
> 
> I also tried to retire but how, last two times @robar posted some new arrivals and I didn't sleep that night
> At least you are lucky because your country is not on Ali black list
> Also, you're a "fire starter", you changed my mind about it "Papa Bery 600Ω", now I dream about 500Ω.


Damn it
I'm thinking about that too 😂


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> The 500ohm has that bit of high end and low end that the 600 papa was missing, I don't think you will regret it, I've got it in a mx500 shell with a 0.8mm hole and y5 paper, sounds pretty good.......


I will put the 500 ohm drivers in the beautiful shell


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Damn it
> I'm thinking about that too 😂


You just started. Why now ?  We are all in the same


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> Thanks, might have to grab them next month


I read on a Facebook group that they do not fit the MX500 shell, they are smaller


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> You just started. Why now ?  We are all in the same


I know this but it seems too much ... to think only of them for the most part .... But it's a hobby and it's damn beautiful 😂😂


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> I know this but it seems too much ... to think only of them for the most part .... But it's a hobby and it's damn beautiful 😂😂



And for that   You are 1000000% right.
BTW ... I see you are from Romania. In 2004, I was for two weeks at an art camp in Râmnicu Vâlcea and we visited other places.
In addition to a great time and outstanding hospitality, I like the most Țuică
Our traditional spirit from plums is much stronger, so for me the Țuică was really refreshing🧴


----------



## jeejack (Jun 7, 2021)

furyossa said:


> And for that   You are 1000000% right.
> BTW ... I see you are from Romania. In 2004, I was for two weeks at an art camp in Râmnicu Vâlcea and we visited other places.
> In addition to a great time and outstanding hospitality, I like the most Țuică
> Our traditional spirit from plums is much stronger, so for me the Țuică was really refreshing🧴


When you stop by, I'll give you something even stronger. Also traditionally called Palincă 😉. Or I'm waiting for you in Turnu Severin, which is close to Serbia


----------



## furyossa (Jun 7, 2021)

You live there? Well, it's on the very border, I am in the south of Serbia, it would take me 7-8 hours to arrive. Just until the Palincă has cooled 
I'll bring soldering supplies and a couple of drivers


----------



## Themilkman46290

I wish I lived closer towards you guys just so I could join in, it would be cool to have a meet, see each others stuff

 Hey, if you guys get the 500ohm, grab the one marked graphene, I don't know about the Berry 500ohm


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> Yep, and from the first listen it was better, I had gotten the 600 first, but decided to try the 500, wish I would have gone for the 500 from the beginning. It's basically what I was hoping for when I bought the 600ohm. If you guys haven't tried them, you should, it is rarely talked about on here but I would rate them in this order
> 400ohm
> 130ohm
> 500ohm
> ...


I have 130 and 400 ohms in the mx500 shell. Do you recommend replacing the shells with the metal ones? And put the 500 ohm one in the MX500?


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> You live there? Well, it's on the very border, I am in the south of Serbia, it would take me 7-8 hours to arrive. Just until the Palincă has cooled
> I'll bring soldering supplies and a couple of drivers


I live in Bucharest but I have a holiday home there. My mother is from there


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> I wish I lived closer towards you guys just so I could join in, it would be cool to have a meet, see each others stuff
> 
> Hey, if you guys get the 500ohm, grab the one marked graphene, I don't know about the Berry 500ohm


what a good idea you have. I would have liked such a meeting


----------



## robar

BTW @furyossa just another new arrival tickle for you  Jietu also added the 19-21 bery and composite in the inventory, for quite a bit cheaper than what I remember up until this point. Here both of these cost less than 10usd
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002765718710.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002765676834.html


jeejack said:


> When you stop by, I'll give you something even stronger. Also traditionally called Palincă 😉. Or I'm waiting for you in Turnu Severin, which is close to Serbia



Haha, and I could bring the same but we call it Pálinka here in Hungary.  I live near Budapest, so it's a bit far unfortunately.


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> I have 130 and 400 ohms in the mx500 shell. Do you recommend replacing the shells with the metal ones? And put the 500 ohm one in the MX500?


Well, the truth is I didn't have a lot of luck with the metal shells, they sound good, but I didn't like the fit, I am using either the wood shells or mx500 shells, I specially liked the 400ohm in wood, then I played around with the size of the holes in the back, added some cloth bandage tape on the inside and different tuning filters

Mx500 just seem to work better in many cases, so I started to focus on them


----------



## Themilkman46290

jeejack said:


> I have 130 and 400 ohms in the mx500 shell. Do you recommend replacing the shells with the metal ones? And put the 500 ohm one in the MX500?


After further tuning I like the 130ohm in the mx500, but I really like the 400 in the wood shells. I didn't love the metal shells. 

But I am thinking of trying the metal open shells


----------



## jeejack

robar said:


> BTW @furyossa just another new arrival tickle for you  Jietu also added the 19-21 bery and composite in the inventory, for quite a bit cheaper than what I remember up until this point. Here both of these cost less than 10usd
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002765718710.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002765676834.html
> 
> ...


Perfect! One more reason to see each other 🥳


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> if you guys get the 500ohm, grab the one marked graphene, I don't know about the Berry 500ohm


I think we already talked about it, 500ohm driver is graphene coated only, they made a typo


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> I have 130 and 400 ohms in the mx500 shell. Do you recommend replacing the shells with the metal ones? And put the 500 ohm one in the MX500?


You will get probably MX500 shells with 500ohm driver. If you notice distortion or resonance then go with metal shells.
If you have problem with fit, metal shells with short stem you can wear in two-way straight up or over ear


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> what a good idea you have. I would have liked such a meeting


Yup. Then you better prepare a barrel of Palincă   I think Mr. @robar will come also to quench his thirst with us


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> BTW @furyossa just another new arrival tickle for you  Jietu also added the 19-21 bery and composite in the inventory, for quite a bit cheaper than what I remember up until this point. Here both of these cost less than 10usd
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002765718710.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002765676834.html
> 
> ...


In my country we call it Šljivovica.

Haha. You didn't manage to surprise me this time, I've seen them before. You have to try a little harder next time and try with some new shell
I suggest listening this song before you again


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Well, the truth is I didn't have a lot of luck with the metal shells, they sound good, but I didn't like the fit, I am using either the wood shells or mx500 shells, I specially liked the 400ohm in wood, then I played around with the size of the holes in the back, added some cloth bandage tape on the inside and different tuning filters
> 
> Mx500 just seem to work better in many cases, so I started to focus on them





Themilkman46290 said:


> After further tuning I like the 130ohm in the mx500, but I really like the 400 in the wood shells. I didn't love the metal shells.
> 
> But I am thinking of trying the metal open shells


@jeejack 
You see, it's all about personal preference. We all have different ear shell, and we also hear different.
It all comes down to subjective thinking so until you try it yourself you will never know what is ok, i.e. what suits you best

@Themilkman46290 
Or maybe 600ohm sounds better than 500ohm. Who knows


----------



## robar

jeejack said:


> Perfect! One more reason to see each other 🥳


Yay  You're right, the linked drivers are not 19-21, I just got confused because externally they look the same as the 19-21 red dot. Do these have names in this group, has anyone tried them?


furyossa said:


> In my country we call it Šljivovica.
> 
> Haha. You didn't manage to surprise me this time, I've seen them before. You have to try a little harder next time and try with some new shell
> I suggest listening this song before you again



Haha okay boss. Yes I know, I linked them first a few months ago but then these were available only at Chitty for 2-3x prices, now they are quite affordable, this is the first time I've seen them below 10usd.


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> Yup. Then you better prepare a barrel of Palincă   I think Mr. @robar will come also to quench his thirst with us


I don't need to prepare anything. We have plenty. Only you guys are missing


----------



## furyossa (Jun 7, 2021)

jeejack said:


> I don't need to prepare anything. We have plenty. Only you guys are missing


----------



## furyossa (Jun 7, 2021)

robar said:


> Haha okay boss. Yes I know, I linked them first a few months ago but then these were available only at Chitty for 2-3x prices, now they are quite affordable, this is the first time I've seen them below 10usd.



Chitty alway do that. They tried with a higher price but without success, now there are probably some in other stores, so they had to lower the price


----------



## furyossa

I don't know if you've noticed how fashionable it is now for each new pair to cost over $300.
Few days ago new Yinman came out on Taobao and guess what, this is the all info that they have. Like they selling a pair of $5 dollars.
It's important that they did a lot of photos in some "supposedly" retro style


----------



## jeejack

Themilkman46290 said:


> Well, the truth is I didn't have a lot of luck with the metal shells, they sound good, but I didn't like the fit, I am using either the wood shells or mx500 shells, I specially liked the 400ohm in wood, then I played around with the size of the holes in the back, added some cloth bandage tape on the inside and different tuning filters
> 
> Mx500 just seem to work better in many cases, so I started to focus on them


You were right about the 400 ohm driver. Sounds damn good in a wooden shell. Bye bye bass bost. And 130 ohms in the MX500 sounds better than in a wooden shell


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> I don't know if you've noticed how fashionable it is now for each new pair to cost over $300.
> Few days ago new Yinman came out on Taobao and guess what, this is the all info that they have. Like they selling a pair of $5 dollars.
> It's important that they did a lot of photos in some "supposedly" retro style


Lol yes, it might as well be just a few random diy parts put together for the price of a decent hi-fi headphone from a big brand. I'm really not sure what are they thinking, it would be bold even for Apple.. Or are these buds so hyped that rich people buy every model for the coolness factor? 

I haven't tried more expensive earbuds but don't you think that there is a plateau for earbuds in terms of SQ? It's really hard for me to believe that a 300usd earbud would be anywhere near competitive with a similarly priced headphone..


----------



## Themilkman46290

Been watching and listening to earbuds for about 4 years, when the most expensive earbuds were 300 bucks, and the average totl bud was around 120-190 (I feel this was justified, if the quality of sound was good enough) during this time I began reading a lot about different companies (like venture electronics, faeal, seahf, earphone association)
And I cam across some group that was talking about the how some of these guys made there success, the industry had shifted away from earbuds in general and focused on iems, because of that, the price on foster style drivers had dropped tremendously, this left some dead stock of totl drivers in different wear houses in China and other places, some of these guys formed the earbud association and and other companies and catered to Asian comunity and they raised enough money to buy a few thousand drivers, they then tuned this for some headphone meets and had begun selling very cheap totl buds to people in there area, and in the case of VE they had grown big enough to begin selling outside of there company.
So now that there has been a huge boom in the earbud market companies like Audiotechnica jump in with outrageously priced garbage, and of course it sold, this signalled other leading companies to drop the budget segment and jump into the high end segment.
I was chatting with the owner of VE monk, and asked about there new pricing and he said there was no point for him to spend so much time in the budget segment, he can sell the same products to the "money is no object" segment and make huge returned on the same products, that was 3 years back.
Now VE has a few 500 and 700 dollars totl earbuds, the average price is 300 for a decent pair and audio technica has jumped in with an earbud that was not received as well as they had hope for almost 500 bucks, and people rushed to buy them even tho the reviews had not given them a very positive rating (I had not listened but I understand it was another mid focused bud with "retro" sound) so the industry took a small change, and a bunch of new companies showed up in the "money is no object" crowed. So now that earbuds are becoming popular, we can expect prices to inflate more and more and as long as the western world buys the over priced crap like astell kern, 700 dollar buds and 1000 dollar iems, then companies will move in the direction, and sadly some companies that catered to normal people will slowly move to the "audiofools" group who swear the the best DAP is astell and kern even though it may have high output impedance and weaker amp stage.
I river was a good company with decent prices on there daps, but after apple had revolutionised the market by proving that there was no need to improve your product to convince people that it's far ahead of the competition, you can convince the majority of people that your product is better simply by increasing the price over the competition by atleast 30% and people will beleive it it 30% better, Iriver then decided to use premium materials and give the self a name that sounded like it was German engineered, Astell & kern was born, at stupidly high prices with horrible output impedance and weak amp stages, they need sensitive high impedance dynamic drivers to sound there best. 
And let's not get started on the crinacle guy, single handedly bringing down the campfire company who had a reputation of being soooo much better then the competition but selling a lot of overpriced badly tuned crap. 
So as long as the world is full of people who are eager to throw away there money because "it is no object" it only makes sense that companies who make very good players with well thought out amp stages and low out put impedance like ibasso to have to raise there price so that people don't think there so much worst then the competition, and make extra money without increasing the amount they spend on research and development, it's a win win for the industry
But we lose, we end up with 
Audio-Technica ATH-CM2000Ti for 480 dollars with rolled highs and lows........... 

After I bought my k's samsara for 120 bucks, the prices of totl quickly began to increase to the prices they are now, and now there are a lot of new companies, even fiio (a company who has left a bad flavor in my mouth since the x1ii) have 300 dollar earbuds (I wasn't very impressed with there sound)
So I decided to try diy
I used samsara as my reference and to my surprise, like the owner of VE said to me, it isn't difficult to tune an earbud
The 400ohm were the first that I realized can be better, then the 130 I was able to tune better

So if any of the people reading this have been curious to try it, please do
And for the people thinking of dropping 400 on some earbuds, contact me, for that price I will tune drivers to sound how ever you prefer, I will even add a pure silver cable and gold plated mx500 shells for the low low price of 400 dollars..... It's a deal, and I guarantee you, that you are special...


----------



## Themilkman46290

Hope I don't get in trouble for talking bad about sponsors.........
Astell & kern is the best ever. and audio technica is infallible........


----------



## meju

jeejack said:


> Wish me luck guys !


how does this driver sound?
is it same as fengru's emx500? big & thick mid bass?

btw, hi to all guys here, long time silent reader here


----------



## meju

jeejack said:


> I have no idea ! I threw it in the trash. I didn't even check anything with a multimeter


is wire from voice coil break?
use gasoline/zippo lighter fluid to weaken the glue, and pull the remaining wire.
sometimes this wires need to be heated first before soldering to melt the insulation.

earbud voice coil wires is very thin, thinner than guitar pickup wires (which is 44awg) that i used to play with


----------



## jeejack

meju said:


> how does this driver sound?
> is it same as fengru's emx500? big & thick mid bass?
> 
> btw, hi to all guys here, long time silent reader here


Yes! Thick bass


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Lol yes, it might as well be just a few random diy parts put together for the price of a decent hi-fi headphone from a big brand. I'm really not sure what are they thinking, it would be bold even for Apple.. Or are these buds so hyped that rich people buy every model for the coolness factor?
> 
> I haven't tried more expensive earbuds but don't you think that there is a plateau for earbuds in terms of SQ? It's really hard for me to believe that a 300usd earbud would be anywhere near competitive with a similarly priced headphone..


There is no limit in SQ. The new drivers i.e. new technologies they appear every day, but that is not a reason for the prices of products to rise so drastically.



Themilkman46290 said:


> Been watching and listening to earbuds for about 4 years, when the most expensive earbuds were 300 bucks, and the average totl bud was around 120-190 (I feel this was justified, if the quality of sound was good enough) during this time I began reading a lot about different companies (like venture electronics, faeal, seahf, earphone association)
> And I cam across some group that was talking about the how some of these guys made there success, the industry had shifted away from earbuds in general and focused on iems, because of that, the price on foster style drivers had dropped tremendously, this left some dead stock of totl drivers in different wear houses in China and other places, some of these guys formed the earbud association and and other companies and catered to Asian comunity and they raised enough money to buy a few thousand drivers, they then tuned this for some headphone meets and had begun selling very cheap totl buds to people in there area, and in the case of VE they had grown big enough to begin selling outside of there company.
> So now that there has been a huge boom in the earbud market companies like Audiotechnica jump in with outrageously priced garbage, and of course it sold, this signalled other leading companies to drop the budget segment and jump into the high end segment.
> I was chatting with the owner of VE monk, and asked about there new pricing and he said there was no point for him to spend so much time in the budget segment, he can sell the same products to the "money is no object" segment and make huge returned on the same products, that was 3 years back.
> ...


I fully understand your frustration and a book can be written about this. All of this is also one of the big reasons why we are here on this thread. I don't care about fancy aesthetics, promotional brochures and packaging, $5K cables, nor brand logo, who thinks that these can affect the sound of the buds then ... well...
90% of TOTL buds has bad fit and comfort, and it's very sad to waste money on something that "sounds good" but you can enjoy listening to music for half an hour.


----------



## furyossa

meju said:


> btw, hi to all guys here, long time silent reader here


Welcome! I hope to see your creative work here soon


----------



## robar (Jun 8, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> Been watching and listening to earbuds for about 4 years, when the most expensive earbuds were 300 bucks, and the average totl bud was around 120-190 (I feel this was justified, if the quality of sound was good enough) during this time I began reading a lot about different companies (like venture electronics, faeal, seahf, earphone association)
> And I cam across some group that was talking about the how some of these guys made there success, the industry had shifted away from earbuds in general and focused on iems, because of that, the price on foster style drivers had dropped tremendously, this left some dead stock of totl drivers in different wear houses in China and other places, some of these guys formed the earbud association and and other companies and catered to Asian comunity and they raised enough money to buy a few thousand drivers, they then tuned this for some headphone meets and had begun selling very cheap totl buds to people in there area, and in the case of VE they had grown big enough to begin selling outside of there company.
> So now that there has been a huge boom in the earbud market companies like Audiotechnica jump in with outrageously priced garbage, and of course it sold, this signalled other leading companies to drop the budget segment and jump into the high end segment.
> I was chatting with the owner of VE monk, and asked about there new pricing and he said there was no point for him to spend so much time in the budget segment, he can sell the same products to the "money is no object" segment and make huge returned on the same products, that was 3 years back.
> ...


Fascinating story, thanks for sharing!  I see you're really well informed in this field.

I can see now how the earbud industry got from humble beginnings to almost snakeoil territory.. How the gap increases between perceived value and actual value. I wouldn't have thought that earbuds become luxury/prestige items, for me they were always such a niche and almost utilitarian design. A portable item that has no isolation and also limited in SQ, really fit dependent and lacking any sort of established industry standard for review method - everything is just so subjective. (I don't know, if I were rich and able to buy expensive stuff, then I'd go for like a flagship headphone which has actual engineering and history behind it, or at least something big and beautiful enough to put in the cabinet lol, not some sketchy gadget but that's me.  )

I always thought that those flagship models are really just for display and marketing and in reality nobody buys them except for a few collectors.  But if there is a market for luxury earbuds then I can totally see manufacturers can just scale the price range and fill up the middle segment to justify the expensive product. Technically yes a 500 dollar earbud could worth its price if it's a 100 dollar earbud plus 400 dollar worth of accessories, but I wouldn't say it's healthy or fair. 

Honestly the best thing about earbuds is DIY imho, it's such a rare case in the audio world when one could create something actually nice and personalized with minimal equipment/budget

@furyossa By limited SQ I meant compared to headphones - I just don't think earbuds can keep up. Before the prices inflated one could have said that they were actually competitive in the price segment, but I just don't believe this can scale well with todays flagship luxury items. And what's actually nice about earbuds - comfort, portability, natural sound signature - any decent earbud can do this.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Honestly the best thing about earbuds is DIY imho, it's such a rare case in the audio world when one could create something actually nice and personalized with minimal equipment/budget


Well said my friend, and I wish to say the same for IEMs and Headphones  but for now will stay here and be quiet


----------



## Themilkman46290

Well, it is awesome that there is this diy section, same goes for the diy iem section, I spent less then 50 bucks on a pair and they are seriously the best iems I have ever had, and I listened to etymotic from 2004 until 2011, then they broke, I notice how the price on everything had jumped in everything, so I decided to give up and got cheap Sony and koss iems, I was happy with earbuds because when I started getting into them the price to performance was really good.

Atleast it's still possible in diy, this brings me to a build that I have been enjoying a lot lately, cost me about 8 bucks all together 





It has become one of the more balanced pair that I have, pretty spacious, using 7:1 foam on the housing, y4 paper on the yolk, and the tubing, 3.5mm od and 2mm id almost 1.5cm long

I would have to say, this is they best I have under 15 dollar build and has lasted longer then the majority of the 19-21 builds I had


----------



## Themilkman46290

I would like to add that 5 years ago, a 50 dollar earbud, could be comparable to 50 dollar open headphone, but now, forget it, my 120 dollar samsara lose to my 80 dollar grados
And my 35 dollar 400ohm diy pretty much wipe the floor with them


----------



## furyossa (Jun 8, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> I would like to add that 5 years ago, a 50 dollar earbud, could be comparable to 50 dollar open headphone, but now, forget it, my 120 dollar samsara lose to my 80 dollar grados
> And my 35 dollar 400ohm diy pretty much wipe the floor with them


And those are the words of a professional DIY-er, no fun intended.
Why are you using my avatar?


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> And those are the words of a professional DIY-er, no fun intended.
> Why are you using my avatar?


Oops, was trying to change for a black and white version, but keep having trouble, what can I say, I like your style


----------



## Themilkman46290

Hahaha sorry I had made it black and white but I can't change it anymore, I have tried but I can't chose another pic.

As far as the tube goes, from what I had read and understood is it works like a horn, amplifying specific frequencies, mainly bass and mid bass but also effect all frequency (acting like a filter adding resistance) when I was younger , I worked at a car garage that made speaker and sub boxes, we used  acoustic wadding and baffles to play with the frequency response of woofer

So adding resistance would lower the bass (I'm sure you understand all of this)
The horn is something I began to understand in the diy iems thread, so depending on length, shape and bend it tends to change response and can add a reverb  or even a slight delay in some frequency (the air needs to travel through it) 
In this case after playing with the tubing I was able to raise the sub bass a bit without making the mid bass too boomy. 

I am thinking, after summer, when renovations are put back on pause, I am going to experiment with tubing more


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Hahaha sorry I had made it black and white but I can't change it anymore, I have tried but I can't chose another pic.
> 
> As far as the tube goes, from what I had read and understood is it works like a horn, amplifying specific frequencies, mainly bass and mid bass but also effect all frequency (acting like a filter adding resistance) when I was younger , I worked at a car garage that made speaker and sub boxes, we used  acoustic wadding and baffles to play with the frequency response of woofer
> 
> ...


Again renovations. How many houses do you have?


----------



## furyossa

To change avatar don't use the same name of image and go with 128px x 128px. They said that 400px x 400px will 
work but no. Also, you need to wait more than 5-10min for image to refresh


----------



## captione (Jun 8, 2021)

Hi guys! Long time no see. I'm glad I checked this thread out, looks like the conversations are still healthy and insightful! Especially what @Themilkman46290 said that got me back into my spirits after a burnout.

It's over a year now since I started making earbuds, tweaking them and learning with the thread, and I can never be more grateful to you all, not just in modding knowledge, but also in audiophile philosophies. Thank you guys for being part of my journey into this never ending rabbit hole and I'm gonna continue this I get bored till I can't do it no more 😁

With that aside, I'm gonna report some builds I did in the past months:



Spoiler: 32ohms Pink Dots build (FINALLY without changing the faceplate) and some big solder related tunings



So I finally bought a Pink dot with the proper faceplates, although at an expense of 3 other pairs, from a very suspicious shop. I actually planned to sell these as an earbud but these things are DIY-unfriendly, low yield and quality inconsistent drivers (they DISTORT! And its most likely because it's an old driver design) so I just scraped the whole pairs and use some of em for future builds, and I can't really buy this driver properly anymore due to those seller I bought from cranking the price and potentially scamming people with their inconsistencies 😟. I have like 5 pairs in total now (including the metal faceplate ones), I'm reaching masochistic levels for these drivers but it's worth it once you get a perfect pair like I did. 😊




I used a red marker than the usual for these engraved markings. Looks dope! ​If I can describe the pink dots more detailed (compared to my info dump section for these drivers), I'd say these defy the usual tropes of an earbud. Bass is massive but tight, sunken lower midrange but prominent upper vocal presence, sparkly highs, claustrophobic soundstage yet super accurate positional ques and imaging. It's a breath of fresh air for people whose tired of the same safe tuning, and I dare say this is my bass endgame. It's that crazy and that's the reason why I kept coming back, and I did not tune it further (just sticked the drivers on the shell with horseshoe foam!)



Yes, I am using a cable from FAAEAL lol​So for the green dots, I finally found a way to shift the 5khz bump and warmen up the signature some more on MX500 shells, just by putting a full horseshoe foam (the ones pre installed on the 64ohm N52 drivers) and I had great results! The bass got more presence, mids got more warm, and the 5khz bump (which is present at this model and the red dots) shifted into 7khz-8khz and turned it into a capable v-shaped pair! Can't wait to play around with the red dots next!





Spoiler: TY Hi-Z 32ohms "restoration" build



I did this build along with my pink dot projects. These drivers started as a prebuilt Ty Hi-Z, into a wooden shell and with center vents drilled, and now back to its former glory, on an MX500 shell!



Since I already did an irreversible mod on its former self, what I did to the centre vent is I dabbed a small dot of hot glue on it and voila! Center vent sealed! Put the usual horseshoe foam in the shell and it sounds the same like I remembered the first time I got addicted into this hobby. Brings me to tears a bit 😔



Looks cool, although I'm a bit worried about the choice of cable I used as these are known to oxidise and stiffen badly, but oh well. I heard there is a mainland special version of the Hi-Z 32ohms in this same shell, I guess I copied that 😂​





Spoiler: MX500 IEM nozzle open back mod in unknown MX500 driver 



The drivers came from a freebie prebuilt that came with the pink dots I bought at the sus shop, thin tpe cable and an interesting standard shell with no markings! Aside from the looks, these are pretty dang capable! The vocal performance stands out although it sounds the usual earbuds on the other parts, so I dismantled all of it and I thought that an open back mod might do this justice!






The diaphragm looks and feels stiffer than let's say, like a Vido diaphragm would be. No wonder the vocals were pleasant. ​I used my spare black shells, drilled a huge hole to the lip side of the shell to fit in a 5mm IEM nozzle that I scrapped from a broken IEM, put the usual horseshoe foam on shell, and voila, here's the result!



I know it kinda looks janky and looks like it won't fit well but it actually fits fine for my big ears.​
The warm, vocal centric signature got more enhanced, and surprisingly the open back gave subtle but effective results in the overturning, the soundstage just got even bigger! Definitely a keeper now.




Here's a photo of the earbuds with an eartip attached to the nozzle (note: they sound horrible if you're curious 😂)​





Spoiler: Carved MX500 shells



I was bored one day, found some spare vido shells and I tried to carve a custom shape with it. I was mainly inspired by Thailand modders with their beautiful moulded MX500 shells. I picked the white one because it was easy to carve a shape off, and also my imperfections would be less noticeable, and also added a bass port in the side for tuning. Here's the result! I'm pretty satisfied, aaaaand I'm still thinking of a proper driver to mount this on, probably a Vido? Let's see in the future 🤓



Mock-up build. ​





Spoiler: Cable build made with Vido cable and broken earbud scraps, recabled on my retuned Sharp MD



The pandemic boredom struck once again and I made a scrap cable build using parts of broken earbuds and cables in my drawer. It went pretty well! I learned how to seal those scrap jack and splitter well with some hot glue and cleaning and I'd say, it's effective! I put on my retuned "DIY Sharp MD which I put full horseshoe foams in the drivers themselves + center foam on the lips covering the coil vents. Pretty good build but I'm worried about the build quality of these cables cause its literally held together by glue! 😅



I think I made the splitter length too long, but oh well, it's more manageable than the Vido stock cable. ​





Spoiler: Awei ES-10 drivers on SHE3800 shells



One day, I was a bit bored (you'd be guessing that I have too much free time at this point 😂) and opened up the drivers of my KAPH SHE800 prebuilts. Unfortunately I broke one of the drivers, leaving me an option to put another driver, take faceplate and put it in the SHE3800 shell.



Here's how the KAPH SHE3800 drivers looked like. ​So I picked my previous Awei ES-10 build earlier and transplanted the drivers there then added a full horseshoe foam. The old EMX500 like signature of the old ES-10 mod became bassier and warmer, with little expense to the good treble extention. The bass more boomy and less tight, just like I wanted it to sound for the past year, and yes I've been tuning this driver for a year now. Tuning it because my target sound for this project was basshead, and I'm so happy I nailed it!



Funnily enough, the cable I used for this also came in that sus shop. ​


Awei ES-10 drivers. Fairly magnetic Vido-type drivers, has been really good in every shell I have put it over the past year. (I might make a separate post regarding this lol)​





Spoiler: Apple earpods on 14.2mm MEMT R7 metal shell



I found my old bro's beat up and broken earpods and I had this spontaneous idea of enhancing it and putting my scrapped MEMT R7 shell (since it uses the same size of drivers).
The shell interior of the Apple Earpods shell looks like there's minimal venting and all out closed back so I tuned the metal shell's vent by putting a double sided foam tape from 3M called *VHB, *and I stuck with it. Mimicked the same earpod signature with tremendous boomy bass, these are definitely earbuds that you don't wanna wear with foamies on 😂



Despite the lips of the shell not flushing in seamlessly with the faceplate, it actually is comfortable to wear naked. ​



As for some future builds, I'm finally making the dual diaphragm MMCX build that I've been waiting for next month, and possibly the big solder biocellulose drivers that @robar mentioned because I'm such a big solder nerd 😂 so stay tuned if you guys are interested!


----------



## Themilkman46290

Only one apartment, but it was a bit of an old s*it hole, soviet wallpaper, everything was failing, and since I don't have the money to pay someone, I do it all myself, no help, and mainly using hand tools, so far, tor out the kitchen and bathroom, removed the old pipes, and flooring, teardown the walls and rebuild walss and plumbing took me a few months last year, earlier this year I built the main furniture and installed the kitchen, then I took a break for working, now I get back to framing doors, installing sliding doors, next is the floors

Wish I could afford the help, but I have trust issues (I worked construction in my mid 20's learned that a lot of people cut corners) but I like working with my hands so it's actually kind of fun


----------



## meju

jeejack said:


> Yes! Thick bass


if so, then i assumes that it also identical with 19-20k driver
my 19-20k driver has similar frequency response as fengru's emx500, thick 100hz mid bass mountain driver.
I "chop" those mountain and it end with 50hz bass roll off, not as deep as IEM's, but impressive for an earbud.

below is the FR of emx, after modding it, the sound more open, staging more clear, not big as 19-20k's staging. But, because emx has dry sounding, 50hz bass boost is still sounds fun.





furyossa said:


> Welcome! I hope to see your creative work here soon


Thank you, my earbuds journey still on the run after a years, so it look messy.
Still trying to find a perfect driver before adding any cosmetics on to it.


----------



## robar (Jun 8, 2021)

@captione Awesome projects, you inspire me to get up and make something.  Your perseverance with big dots is remarkable 

@Themilkman46290 Really nice build with the tuning tubes and N52 drivers! I have 3 pairs of N50 drivers (which are at least 90% identical in sound to N52) with mx500 shells for building, you made me think.. I should try something adventurous


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Hi guys! Long time no see. I'm glad I checked this thread out, looks like the conversations are still healthy and insightful! Especially what @Themilkman46290 said that got me back into my spirits after a burnout.
> 
> It's over a year now since I started making earbuds, tweaking them and learning with the thread, and I can never be more grateful to you all, not just in modding knowledge, but also in audiophile philosophies. Thank you guys for being part of my journey into this never ending rabbit hole and I'm gonna continue this I get bored till I can't do it no more 😁
> 
> ...


You are not kidding at all. It all seems to me that you founded some DIY business and embarked on mass modification. 
Joke aside, good job man, you inspired all of us


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Only one apartment, but it was a bit of an old s*it hole, soviet wallpaper, everything was failing, and since I don't have the money to pay someone, I do it all myself, no help, and mainly using hand tools, so far, tor out the kitchen and bathroom, removed the old pipes, and flooring, teardown the walls and rebuild walss and plumbing took me a few months last year, earlier this year I built the main furniture and installed the kitchen, then I took a break for working, now I get back to framing doors, installing sliding doors, next is the floors
> 
> Wish I could afford the help, but I have trust issues (I worked construction in my mid 20's learned that a lot of people cut corners) but I like working with my hands so it's actually kind of fun


I know how is it. Same situation here. I rented an apartment in an older building and the apartment was nicely renovated at first glance, but when I finally moved I couldn't believe how many omissions there are. Literally, this is the restoration without any supervision. And you know what it looks like, "make-up chaos"


----------



## furyossa

meju said:


> Thank you, my earbuds journey still on the run after a years, so it look messy.
> Still trying to find a *perfect driver* before adding any cosmetics on to it.


Something like that don't exist. Perfect diver is like a unicorn , a pure fantasy.
Don't waste time because there aren't that many DIY drivers. There are a lot of good recommendations on this thread,
but you are free to ask what specifically interests you.
Here you have a list of DIY stores from Ali from where we procure parts


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> @captione Awesome projects, you inspire me to get up and make something.  Your perseverance with big dots is remarkable
> 
> @Themilkman46290 Really nice build with the tuning tubes and N52 drivers! I have 3 pairs of N50 drivers (which are at least 90% identical in sound to N52) with mx500 shells for building, you made me think..* I should try something adventurous *


You already did with headphones


----------



## furyossa

Does anyone know what these earbuds are




Mr. @GREQ posted these on Earbud roundup. 
@robar check his gallery, he has a ton of headphone drivers photos


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> Does anyone know what these earbuds are
> 
> Mr. @GREQ posted these on Earbud roundup.
> @robar check his gallery, he has a ton of headphone drivers photos


Thanks, yummy


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Thanks, yummy


*bon appétit *


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> I know how is it. Same situation here. I rented an apartment in an older building and the apartment was nicely renovated at first glance, but when I finally moved I couldn't believe how many omissions there are. Literally, this is the restoration without any supervision. And you know what it looks like, "make-up chaos"


Exactly, as soon as you start to fix one thing, something else crumbles, but I like a challenge so I can't complain. 
Specially because it's our house, I have never owned a place in my life, makes me happy to have this security, 20 years in the U.s.a and I only dreamt of the opportunity, now we own our place......
Feels like a dream


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> Does anyone know what these earbuds are
> 
> 
> Mr. @GREQ posted these on Earbud roundup.
> @robar check his gallery, he has a ton of headphone drivers photos


Rose techniques 
They have several models like this, I think this is from the latest gen masya


----------



## Themilkman46290

If they were not 300 dollars I would've bought a pair, dual drivers, big one for bass/sub bass and smaller driver in front for the mids and highs


----------



## furyossa

Themilkman46290 said:


> Exactly, as soon as you start to fix one thing, something else crumbles, but I like a challenge so I can't complain.
> Specially because it's our house, I have never owned a place in my life, makes me happy to have this security, 20 years in the U.s.a and I only dreamt of the opportunity, now we own our place......
> Feels like a dream


In that case every challenge pays off and every time it's hard for you, just imagine how you build a special DIY project for your lady


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Jun 9, 2021)

Sorry, I thought it was rose masya, looks like rose maria
Here are some more pictures, I wish I had a 3d printer, it would be interesting to try this out



I tried unsuccessfully using a couple of cheap 16 mm potentiometer nobs but I couldn't get it to sound well


----------



## furyossa (Jun 9, 2021)

Themilkman46290 said:


> If they were not 300 dollars I would've bought a pair, dual drivers, big one for bass/sub bass and smaller driver in front for the mids and highs


Yup I know about all Rose buds and the drivers but model that I posted earlier it's unknown to me, and it has fixed cables.
3D printin will be very cheap for this shells but you need to get the 3D model or model it by yourself  I don't have dimensions for this shell otherwise it would make a 3d object for 3D printing.
I found here locally a guy who prints superhero figures. With this level of detail, I don't think it will be a problem to print small earbuds. See the precision of these figures


BTW...are you saw PM from last night? Can you open ZIP archive


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Jun 9, 2021)

I guess you are right, maybe it is not a rose tech bud.....
But the concept can be thought up, I guess I will need to model some, keep trying, maybe try uv plastic


I was able to open them, I just haven't gotten around to changing it yet, definitely liking the Riley black and white pic


----------



## potatoheadexperience

So long time lurker here, but i'm curious if anyone have tried using these LCP 32ohm 15.4mm drivers? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...8.0&pvid=4f813a5a-4d37-4183-ba20-fb0f21d445fe
Are they a good pair of drivers or no? i'm currently using the 130 ohm Berys and they're pretty top-notch, i have to say .


----------



## robar

Btw NSC store has also listed recently the 32ohm bery and biocomposite drivers, and for a lot cheaper than other sellers. They're less than 6usd there


----------



## FranQL

Themilkman46290 said:


> Been watching and listening to earbuds for about 4 years, when the most expensive earbuds were 300 bucks, and the average totl bud was around 120-190 (I feel this was justified, if the quality of sound was good enough) during this time I began reading a lot about different companies (like venture electronics, faeal, seahf, earphone association)
> And I cam across some group that was talking about the how some of these guys made there success, the industry had shifted away from earbuds in general and focused on iems, because of that, the price on foster style drivers had dropped tremendously, this left some dead stock of totl drivers in different wear houses in China and other places, some of these guys formed the earbud association and and other companies and catered to Asian comunity and they raised enough money to buy a few thousand drivers, they then tuned this for some headphone meets and had begun selling very cheap totl buds to people in there area, and in the case of VE they had grown big enough to begin selling outside of there company.
> So now that there has been a huge boom in the earbud market companies like Audiotechnica jump in with outrageously priced garbage, and of course it sold, this signalled other leading companies to drop the budget segment and jump into the high end segment.
> I was chatting with the owner of VE monk, and asked about there new pricing and he said there was no point for him to spend so much time in the budget segment, he can sell the same products to the "money is no object" segment and make huge returned on the same products, that was 3 years back.
> ...


spectacular analysis, totally agree with you.


----------



## 730user

For several years I have been assembling Chinese diy dacs for myself. I followed this thread. Many of the now famous DAC factories grew out of diy. The price was growing right before my eyes ... I am glad that new players appear and at first their prices are reasonable ...


----------



## earfanatic

Long docomo shell bass port question:

Did You notice difference when using thin vs thick cable with this shell?
The bass port is the cable tunnel as well, so the thick cable can block the bass port or make the effective diameter smaller.

I noticed the original bud was assembled with a very thin cable.
New PK shells have separate tunnels, and not affected by cable thickness.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 14, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Long docomo shell bass port question:
> 
> Did You notice difference when using thin vs thick cable with this shell?
> The bass port is the cable tunnel as well, so the thick cable can block the bass port or make the effective diameter smaller.
> ...


Either way you can't use thick 8 core cable o 4-core "bulk" cable because of small tunnel. I use mostly RY-Cxx cables and they fit perfectly

If you are looking for slightly better quality thin cables
This is the cable that is use for Tingo TG-38s  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32825814438.html
Tiger cable https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000272863965.html and if you want wire for the balanced cable then you need
4-core wire https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32612774761.html . BTW... Chity can assemble cable for you.
Slightly rigid but very durable and high quality Furukawa cable https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32406354221.html.
I use Furukawa "Red" for my 150ohm "redfim" buds


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Either way you can't use thick 8 core cable o 4-core "bulk" cable because of small tunnel. I use mostly RY-Cxx cables and they fit perfectly
> 
> If you are looking for slightly better quality thin cables
> This is the cabble that is use for Tingo TG-38s  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32825814438.html
> ...


Thank You for the recommendations!


----------



## robar

earfanatic said:


> Long docomo shell bass port question:
> 
> Did You notice difference when using thin vs thick cable with this shell?
> The bass port is the cable tunnel as well, so the thick cable can block the bass port or make the effective diameter smaller.
> ...


I don't have docomo shell but I did notice drop in bass response in other similar shells when using thick cables.

Quick tip: you can get the aluminium foil cables @furyossa mentioned for less money here:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32984730008.html

I also like this if I want an ultra light cable which is easy to work with:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32907545114.html

This is a bit thicker but still soft and relatively thin, I quite like it with mx500
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32818428493.html

And I'm eyeing this bundle for cheap thin cables
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000234736461.html

I also have RY-C11 cable and while it'snice overall, my problem is that it's "noisy" in a sense that it creates a lot of mechanical noise when it moves around in the stem under tension. It can be quite frustrating especially with smaller/tighter shells than mx500, mine is in a box unused for this reason. This is why I tend to avoid braided cables. I'll probably convert it to mmcx someday.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 14, 2021)

robar said:


> Quick tip: you can get the aluminium foil cables @furyossa mentioned for less money here:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32984730008.html


For some reason, I like this cable. It's light, soft, tangle-free and because of this I didn't want to swap it with any other cable.
Last week and probably this one, TG-38s is on my desk, and I am currently using it as a daily driver. I really like sound signature of this buds


robar said:


> This is a bit thicker but still soft and relatively thin, I quite like it with mx500
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32818428493.html


Yup, red version of Tiger cable (3-core).


robar said:


> And I'm eyeing this bundle for cheap thin cables
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000234736461.html


It reminds me of old KZ cables and I think they used it for OG Yinman 150


robar said:


> I also have RY-C11 cable and while it'snice overall, my problem is that it's "noisy" in a sense that it creates a lot of mechanical noise when it moves around in the stem under tension. It can be quite frustrating especially with smaller/tighter shells than mx500, mine is in a box unused for this reason. This is why I tend to avoid braided cables. I'll probably convert it to mmcx someday.


That's why I wrap the part which pass through steam with shrink tube. This will also prevent unwinding


----------



## earfanatic

A review of the PK shell, from Chitty's.
This is the white variant, double vent. It is sold in black as well but out of stock at the moment.
The shell is perfect in size. I ordered the 150Ohm PK1 drivers and those fit perfectly and tight.




One comment though, the end of the bass port is not drilled trough. There is like 0.5mm You have to drill if You need it open.



The cable tunnel is about 1.2mm, I had to drill for 1.6mm cable, but that is perfectly fine.

I found the vent foam very-very thin. I teared one when pushed the tinned end of the cable in.
I think it is too thin for the PK1 150Ohm (transparent film) driver, it has lot of midbass/midtone with it. Some drivers benefit this, some don't.

I hope the white shell material is good ground for spray paint, as I want to try some colors on it.


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> I hope the white shell material is good ground for spray paint, as I want to try some colors on it.


Always use primer spray on plastic as first coat and then color. Then is not meter which color has shell.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Always use primer spray on plastic as first coat and then color. Then is not meter which color has shell.


^this. 

Also scuff the shell with 400-600 grit sandpaper or scotch-brite pads. The glossy surface is not as good for adhesion as a rougher matte finish.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> ^this.
> 
> Also scuff the shell with 400-600 grit sandpaper or scotch-brite pads. The glossy surface is not as good for adhesion as a rougher matte finish.


I'm glad to see you here. A quick question: Is it good or I'd better skip it
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001919439646.html


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> I'm glad to see you here. A quick question: Is it good or I'd better skip it
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001919439646.html



Harder to drive than many. Tuning is somewhat difficult as well.

The 14.8mm 32Ω Ti is a better driver IMO.


Granted, my best current source is the TC35B. No daps/amps currently. So ymmv.

@Sam L currently has them. Maybe he can toss in his thoughts.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 16, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Either way you can't use thick 8 core cable o 4-core "bulk" cable because of small tunnel. I use mostly RY-Cxx cables and they fit perfectly
> 
> If you are looking for slightly better quality thin cables
> This is the cable that is use for Tingo TG-38s  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32825814438.html
> ...


I recabled the white and black long docomos with the new docomo drivers.
For the white cable, I used RY-c11.
For the black cable, I used broken HE150 Pro's cable.

Inside those shells, I followed @golov17 's advice and put half of a coarse foam pad inside each shell.
This reduced the extra mid and made the sound more pleasing.


----------



## Themilkman46290

furyossa said:


> I'm glad to see you here. A quick question: Is it good or I'd better skip it
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001919439646.html


I was kind of disappointed in them, highs are missing, I was able to get the mids and lows to a cool point but without enough highs every thing becomes to dark


----------



## 730user

I washed my Vido in the washing machine with the bluetooth receiver.
They still work ...


----------



## furyossa

730user said:


> I washed my Vido in the washing machine with the bluetooth receiver.
> They still work ...


You are using a really weird way for tuning. Tell me which frequency you washed off?  
Maybe you tried to remove sibilance?


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Harder to drive than many. Tuning is somewhat difficult as well.
> 
> The 14.8mm 32Ω Ti is a better driver IMO.
> 
> ...





Themilkman46290 said:


> I was kind of disappointed in them, highs are missing, I was able to get the mids and lows to a cool point but without enough highs every thing becomes to dark


Thank you guys.


----------



## jeejack

730user said:


> I washed my Vido in the washing machine with the bluetooth receiver.
> They still work ...


This happened to me a few months ago with T2 plus and Sonata HD pro. They both work 😎


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> This happened to me a few months ago with T2 plus and Sonata HD pro. They both work 😎


You two are obviously professionals when it comes to this way of tuning


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> You two are obviously professionals when it comes to this way of tuning



I would recommend it to you too, but you are not a professional like us 😂😂😂


----------



## furyossa (Jun 16, 2021)

New volunteer for the DIY project. I don't want to comment on how they sound because it's not worth it,
 but what is here is an AKG K314 shell that has one of the best ergonomics.


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> New volunteer for the DIY project. I don't want to comment on how they sound because it's not worth it,
> but what is here is an AKG K314 shell that has one of the bestergonomics.


I miss them.
It was washed away in the flood, but I used to have AKG K312P and K314P...


----------



## furyossa (Jun 16, 2021)

jogawag said:


> I miss them.
> It was *washed away in the flood,* but I used to have AKG K312P and K314P...



I'm not interested in AKG buds, but their shells. Also, I think they use a way better plastic then this Hidizs "cheap-ass" plastic 
You already saw my post for AKG Y16A, I don't like sound signature, but shell has good ergonomics and material.
Too bad it's not compatible with MX500 drivers


----------



## earfanatic (Jun 19, 2021)

Guys, I have just got my hands on this old stock. Not even opened them.




Yes, they look real!


Spoiler: Open secret source



And because You are so nice guys, I share the link if You want to spend 5,50 €. 
The drawback is, it ships only to Austria or Germany.
And no one knows how many is left in stock.


----------



## earfanatic

This is the driver. 143Ohm and 148Ohm



You know what this is, don't You?   No, it's not a bad camera lens!


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> Guys, I have just got my hands on this old stock. Not even opened them.
> 
> Yes, they look real!
> 
> ...


You bought 5pairs  why do we need link when you can swap the stock cable and sell them for $25 as it once was on Ali


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> You bought 5pairs  why do we need link when you can swap the stock cable and sell them for $25 as it once was on Ali


Because You are such nice guys, sharing knowledge with me, and I like You.


----------



## furyossa

furyossa said:


> New volunteer for the DIY project. I don't want to comment on how they sound because it's not worth it,
> but what is here is an AKG K314 shell that has one of the best ergonomics.


At first glance, it seemed to me that these K314 shells would be compatible with PK drivers because they are small, but I was wrong.
For now, only the MX500 can be used, but with the use of glue, the metal mesh version is too big


----------



## furyossa (Jun 19, 2021)

Right now, I'm dealing with my new pair HiFi Boy Dream that arrived a few days ago.


Spoiler: HiFi Boy Dream package

















I received "rose gold" version because this was the only one in the stock. Best looking is "coffee" model, but still
buds are buds and for me is important that they sound good. At least I pay $50 and not $90
Also, they added this white 2-pin cable as gratis, a bunch of eartips, 6.35mm adapter plug and plane adapter.
There was obviously no saving here.

They have precise and clean presentation, more like IEMs. Upper mids are a bit forward, so they can cause a slightly sharper sound (no sibilance here) in some bad recordings. Instruments separation and positioning is great. Soundstage is narrower, probably because of the small (shallow) shell without back vent. There are only 3 small, not sealed vents on one side of the shell. The stem is sealed from inside to produce a more intimate sound.
All in all definitely justify its price, this is the sound expected for a price range between. $50-$100.

I'm also testing my new 3D printed "ear canal" coupler 

This is the f-graph for HiFi Boy




They are very easy to detach from shell and here are some photos.

They use full foam and some thin ring foam on the border.

Here is a yellow glue that does not allow the cables to be pulled out.
This cascading shape of the interior surface is a good idea, this way reflection of back sound wave will be broken.
I think Penon use same shell for HE150Pro but with back vent.
This one only has logo on the back


I removed all glue from the shell and stem. Also added one more layer of cotton filter over foam. The change in the sound is barely noticeable, and yet I will try this driver with the MX500 shell. Upper midds is a bit too much for my taste. Any suggestion are welcome.


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> Right now, I'm dealing with my new pair HiFi Boy Dream that arrived a few days ago.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: HiFi Boy Dream package
> ...


I feel that by increasing the bass with Double Foam (donuts foam on full foam), you can make these upper midds less noticeable.


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> Right now, I'm dealing with my new pair HiFi Boy Dream that arrived a few days ago.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: HiFi Boy Dream package
> ...


Nice projects 
To decrease high mids I'd try to increase venting (make a new vent on the back or make an existing one larger) or decrease the amount of foam inside on the driver. Probably a thinner foam on the driver plus a thin material on the vents


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> I feel that by increasing the bass with Double Foam (donuts foam on full foam), you can make these upper midds less noticeable.


I tied yesterday that. The problem is the shallow shell that has a habit of pushing the middle tones forward. I noticed that when I experimented with different shells 
for a 130ohm beryllium driver. Tomorrow I will try with TC-200 shell and foams. You can also cut round piece of medical mask and putt as first layer then full foam over and donut at the end. Are you tried that?


----------



## furyossa (Jun 19, 2021)

robar said:


> Nice projects
> To decrease high mids I'd try to increase venting (make a new vent on the back or make an existing one larger) or decrease the amount of foam inside on the driver. Probably a thinner foam on the driver plus a thin material on the vents


I was thinking about that but I didn't want to drill this shell because I have other spare shells for test.
Larger inner cavity will hell for sure.
Do you thank that basic mod (white cotton on the driver and black foam only over MX500 vents) will solve the problem?


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> You can also cut round piece of medical mask and putt as first layer then full foam over and donut at the end. Are you tried that?


Not yet. But I will try after you've succeeded.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 19, 2021)

jogawag said:


> Not yet. But I will try after you've succeeded.


That is the last and easiest trick, but we here like to solve things on the hard and risky way  We like the smell of solder


----------



## furyossa (Jun 19, 2021)

jogawag said:


> Not yet. But I will try after you've succeeded.



Small changes after 4K , but I need to correct 3K-4K


----------



## jogawag (Jun 19, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Small changes after 4K , but I need to correct 3K-4K


You were successful, so I tried it too.
But the result was the same as yours, the sound didn't change much.

So I put donut foam on it to make it Double Foam and the bass increased as a natural consequence.


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Nice projects
> To decrease high mids I'd try to increase venting (make a new vent on the back or make an existing one larger) or decrease the amount of foam inside on the driver. Probably a thinner foam on the driver plus a thin material on the vents


Before I start testing with MX500 shell, I tried your suggestion by decrease the amount of foam (stock shell setup) and I got some promising results in 3K-4K area.
They didn't use standard horseshoe black foam which we often use. The stock black foam is thin and dense as it is pressed


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> Before I start testing with MX500 shell, I tried your suggestion by decrease the amount of foam (stock shell setup) and I got some promising results in 3K-4K area.
> They didn't use standard horseshoe black foam which we often use. The stock black foam is thin and dense as it is pressed


So I guess the white cotten filter is the way to go.
As a finishing touch, you can add "Double Foam" to increase the bass, and you're done!


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> So I guess the white cotten filter is the way to go.
> As a finishing touch, you can add "Double Foam" to increase the bass, and you're done!


Cotton filter + 2 pieces (1/3 horseshoe foam) on the vents. Without filters the sound loses clarity. I hope that something in between will be optimal  
BTW... we already have nickname for your double foam mode, did you forget?
"Cold Weather" mode


----------



## jogawag (Jun 20, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Cotton filter + 2 pieces (1/3 horseshoe foam) on the vents. Without filters the sound loses clarity. I hope that something in between will be optimal
> BTW... we already have nickname for your double foam mode, did you forget?
> "Cold Weather" mode


Why don't you take off your old hat, forget the "Cold Weather" mode and use this "Thin black foam" for "Double Foam"?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33019313027.html


----------



## furyossa (Jun 20, 2021)

jogawag said:


> Why don't you take off your old hat, forget the "Cold Weather" mode and use this "Thin black foam" for "Double Foam"?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33019313027.html


Don't be mad at me . Ok for that kind of foams we will call it "Spring Time" mode 
I use these foams https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881765999.html
But as I already told you, foams not affect the bass but fit, which is crucial for better bass and less harsh treble.
To get better bass, you need to create more pressure in driver cover and shell.
For "nozzle" type buds and IEMs is not that hard to achieve that (some useful info) but with "flat head" buds it's a bit tricky, and you can improvise


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> Don't be mad at me . Ok for that kind of foams we will call it "Spring Time" mode
> I use these foams https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881765999.html
> But as I already told you, foams not affect the bass but fit, which is crucial for better bass and less harsh treble.
> To get better bass, you need to create more pressure in driver cover and shell.
> For "nozzle" type buds and IEMs is not that hard to achieve that (some useful info) but with "flat head" buds it's a bit tricky, and you can improvise


Nothing, I'm not mad at you. 
I know your favourite, but it's puffy, itches when it touches my skin and costs about ten times more than my recommendation.
What's so good about it?


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Before I start testing with MX500 shell, I tried your suggestion by decrease the amount of foam (stock shell setup) and I got some promising results in 3K-4K area.
> They didn't use standard horseshoe black foam which we often use. The stock black foam is thin and dense as it is pressed


I recommend reading this article for those who try tuning any earphone or headphone.
It shows the results of different modifications, and how those affect frequency response.
Link: A GLIMPSE INTO THE SECRETS OF HEADPHONE VOICING


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Nothing, I'm not mad at you.
> I know your favourite, but it's puffy, itches when it touches my skin and costs about ten times more than my recommendation.
> What's so good about it?


I never said that they are my favorite eartips. This was my answer


furyossa said:


> Yup, they thick but very good quality. I rarely use it, in 99% cases donut foams are my way to go


What's so good about it you ask?
They are durable, and if you use some shell that has sharp edges which causing you some kind of discomfort, this eartips can help  
You probably haven't come across a case like that


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> I recommend reading this article for those who try tuning any earphone or headphone.
> It shows the results of different modifications, and how those affect frequency response.
> Link: A GLIMPSE INTO THE SECRETS OF HEADPHONE VOICING


My previous graph shows *SOFT FELT BAFFLE DAMPING *from that post. Hard felt baffle damping is not practical for earbuds


----------



## furyossa (Jun 20, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I just finished my hybrid shell model. For this, I used a 300ohm driver N52 magnet, Tingo T200 cable (just temporarily)  and aluminum shell (front part only).
> 300ohm driver requires swapping of this tick filter because it already has slightly recessed mids. Treble is laid-back. Bass is really energetic, N52 magnet does a good job here.
> Without the filter, mids come in front, a little too much for my taste. A thin filter with a pair of punched holes provides solid sound.
> I like these aluminum shells because are ultra-light and the driver fits perfectly. The only problem is that they are too shallow (very small cavity size).
> The back of the shell is a hand-made wooden piece. By adding this wooden part I got medium cavity size which adds a bit "large room" effect


I tried the same tuning that has HiFi Boy Dream with full horseshoe foam on my 300ohm N52 driver which has recessed upper mids and I got this result.




This driver took me the most time to tune, it's as stubborn as a mule, but there is a cure for everything 
BTW...You can find different tuning papers here


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> I tried the same tuning that has HiFi Boy Dream with full horseshoe foam on my 300ohm N52 driver which has recessed upper mids and I got this result.
> 
> 
> This driver took me the most time to tune, it's as stubborn as a mule, but there is a cure for everything
> BTW...You can find different tuning papers here


Nice results! I like those graphs.
Are you planning to post measurements from other buds You have?


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> Nice results! I like those graphs.
> Are you planning to post measurements from other buds You have?


Probably  But to be clear, these graphs are not accurate like those that you see for IEMs and headphones where they use professional measurement gears.
The graphs that I posted earlier, should show only the difference between different mods, i.e. tuning.


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Probably  But to be clear, these graphs are not accurate like those that you see for IEMs and headphones where they use professional measurement gears.
> The graphs that I posted earlier, should show only the difference between different mods, i.e. tuning.


You are right, this need to be noted for our measurements. I am still waiting for the ear coupler to be delivered. I cant wait to try making some mods, and measure it! 
My ear adopts easily, and after a few tests I can not tell small differences. This would help me a lot.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 21, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> You are right, this need to be noted for our measurements. I am still waiting for the ear coupler to be delivered. I cant wait to try making some mods, and measure it!
> My ear adopts easily, and after a few tests I can not tell small differences. This would help me a lot.


Yes, that's normal. A measurement rig really helps a lot when tuning, and it also speeds up the process. Luckily, the equipment for these rigs is not as expensive as for say headphones and speakers.  For all those interested, this post is a nice introduction https://www.audioreviews.org/rig-calibration/
Of course, there are other mics, and you can always use your DAC / Amp device. This is my current setup


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Yes, that's normal. A measurement rig really helps a lot when tuning, and it also speeds up the process. Luckily, the equipment for these rigs is not as expensive as for say headphones and speakers.  For all those interested, this post is a nice introduction https://www.audioreviews.org/rig-calibration/
> Of course, there are other mics, and you can always use your DAC / Amp device. This is my current setup


It amazes me how different our IMM-6 measurements are. It shows you how important it is to realize that couplers, amp and practices make a massive difference in how a graph appears.

My rig:








I was also blown away by how close to an IEM graph my earbud measurements seem to come. Definitely helps me correlate tuning changes to what I hear. Also to create a custom EQ if needed.


----------



## robar (Jun 21, 2021)

Just to chime in with measurements: here's how I utilize measurements in my tuning process. I've recently played around with the 19-21 red dot drivers by putting white cotton horseshoe (salvaged from b40) on the drivers. (the setup is very simple otherwise, just a well fitting black mx500 shell + standard horseshoe on vents) I reached my current ideal tuning by playing with the amount of white cotton covering the driver, my favorite is roughly 50% at the moment. As you can see, the effect is very clear, full coverage is quite V-shaped while bare drivers are flatter with less bass. It was a bit too midrange forward for me (fatiguing), this is why I decided to push it towards v shape a bit.

I also do this with driver matching, for example in this project I swapped one of the drivers with a backup and the sound definitely got better after reaching a close match.

Actually I built two identical buds parallel, I started one from the full coverage (green) and one from bare drivers (blue). Listening and measuring both, then making changes etc. In the end, my sweet spot was the middle one and I tuned both to that signature. (one of them was a present, I kept the other)

My measurement technique is far from perfect of course and looks very different from others, but as you can see it's perfectly fine for showing relative differences in the tuning process (mine has a consistent peak at 250hz regardless of earbud, but who cares lol)

I just push the earbud against the mic (with donut foam) of the Tascam DR05 which happens to be the perfect diameter. I plug the line out of the Tascam into the Focusrite Scarlett and voila 





@furyossa Sorry for the late reply, I'm glad the tuning worked out for you. I'm following the thread and very nice work everyone


----------



## furyossa

After testing a few different shells and tuning mods, I finally managed to achieve more than the expected result. 
In this post I will describe a "very simple" mode for HiFi Boy Dream.
I would first like to thank Mr. @robar and Mr. @jogawag for the great suggestions.   



I bought this pair for Penon Audio Store and currently available version is "Rose Gold"
these are some specs and few reviews

Driver size:Frequency response:Impedance:Sensitivity:Cable:16mm15 Hz-23 KHz32ohm100dB5N OFC
https://audio123reviews.com/2018/03/30/hifi-boy-dream/
https://www.audiobuko.com/2018/05/hifi-boy-dream-review-earbud-awakening.html
https://primeaudio.org/hifi-boy-dream-earbud-review-follow-the-dream/

For me, these buds are one of the best sounding 32ohm driver model which I have heard so far, clarity and precision wise.
I think anyone who likes a more intimate sound with dominant female vocals would like this pair. 
The presentation of the sound is quite reminiscent of closed-back headphones.

The main reason why I decided to modify this pair is because I am a fan of a more spacious sound, and since I am sensitive to treble, 
sometimes forward upper mids can bother me also. Other frequencies are already perfectly balanced, so the main goal here is to soften the mids a bit 
without losing detail and to achieve a more spacious sound.
Stock metal shell is shallow and from previous experience this kind of shells tend to bring mids forward and produce closed sound even if the stem is open.
Staying with the same shell was not the option, so I decided to try different shells with a deeper cavity. With some metal shells I got a bit hollow sound 
which I didn't want in this case and I return to old-good MX500. With black and silver shell I had a problem putting the driver because 
the driver construction sets high in cover so there is not enough space for the shell "lip". 
I borrow gold MX500 shell from DIY Tingo TC400 (old version with light-gray metal mesh covers and white not braided cable, this is the new verion) which has 
very short"lip" and accepts well metal mesh driver cover. To match the look, I pick RY-c15 gold cable and this is the result



Now about tuning. For stock tuning, HiFi Boy used some kind of pressed full horseshoe black foam and ring foam on the inner wall of driver cover



For this MX500 mod I use tuning paper (Y3 or Y4) on the back of the driver and full horseshoe black foam on the shell vents
After testing this mod I noticed a huge soundstage (3D) and calmer female vocals, but low frequencies were in the 2nd plan.
I also felt a little resonance that I didn’t notice in the metal shell.



Unlike the black MX500 shells, these gold, silver and metallic red shells have a larger fake vent
which can cause unwanted resonance. A similar problem occurs with headphones



I decided to close this superfluous space on both side as well vents on one side to increase the pressure in the shell to restore bass and sub-bass.
For this you can use glue, clay or even chewing gum  Then goes full black foam over.
With this modification the bass is tightened and has a better definition, and also has an impact on sub-bass.



The final result is obvious and quite surprising to be honest. I just emphasize that the imaging, soundstage and bass speeds are great.



And I am more than satisfied with this project, which in the true sense of the word represents an "intimate to spacious sound" transformation.


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> After testing a few different shells and tuning mods, I finally managed to achieve more than the expected result.
> In this post I will describe a "very simple" mode for HiFi Boy Dream.
> I would first like to thank Mr. @robar and Mr. @jogawag for the great suggestions.
> 
> ...




A spectacular job, now I want a pair of golden boys !!!!!!


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> I tried the same tuning that has HiFi Boy Dream with full horseshoe foam on my 300ohm N52 driver which has recessed upper mids and I got this result.
> 
> 
> This driver took me the most time to tune, it's as stubborn as a mule, but there is a cure for everything
> BTW...You can find different tuning papers here


Same with me but in different shells. Indeed the hardest to tune drivers. This are the drivers from RY4S 300ohm version. I'm curious about a comparison to Blur 300 ohm earbuds


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> After testing a few different shells and tuning mods, I finally managed to achieve more than the expected result.
> In this post I will describe a "very simple" mode for HiFi Boy Dream.
> I would first like to thank Mr. @robar and Mr. @jogawag for the great suggestions.
> 
> ...


Just WOW !😎


----------



## furyossa (Jun 22, 2021)

jeejack said:


> Same with me but in different shells. Indeed the hardest to tune drivers. This are the drivers from RY4S 300ohm version. I'm curious about a comparison to Blur 300 ohm earbuds


It looks exactly the same as 300ohm N52 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002279664828.html. Now I understand why people complain about RY4S 300ohm.
This driver is powerful without doubt, and it can sound good, but we need to find out the right tuning because it's picky about shells and filters.
What I noticed that require black thick foam on the back and about shell: definitely not for big shells, with shallow shells you can bring mids in front but the soundstage narrows considerably. So something in between will be optimal.
My current shell is shallow, but it has depth because of wood part. For now all frequencies are balanced well, still luck sub-bass and soundstage is average in all 3 axis.

Looking at your setup, what influence has foam inside the shell? I see you don't use filter on shell side vents.
Avoid to use material which absorb moisture, and if you use them, make sure they do not touch the driver or uninsulated part of the wire.
I prepared this shell for HiFi Boy, but I think I will try it with 300ohm N52. I spiced it up with a "special ingredient" 


Blur buds use many tricks, but I didn't see jet how they look under the hood. They are very good, but not probably a big difference from our mods.
Most users of Blur buds are delighted with the sound, but this is because they have not had the experience to encounter quality DIY drivers that have really great potential for tuning.

You saw the other day @RikudouGoku comment. He praises the NickHCK MX500 and puts it above 130ohm Bery, which is hilarious.
I know he own assembled 130ohm buds, but who knows how they tuned (I think that they just assembled)


----------



## RikudouGoku

furyossa said:


> You saw the other day @RikudouGoku comment. He praises the NickHCK MX500 and puts it above 130ohm Bery, which is hilarious.
> I know he own assembled 130ohm buds, but who knows how they tuned (I think that they just assembled)


I can only speak based on my own experience and I can say for sure that the beryllium driver I have is not tuned well (could be the seller didnt tune it well but there isnt anything beryllium-like about it) and it is why the MX500 is above it. They tuned it to be a bassier bud, but mid-bass focused so it causes bloat. The Yincrow X6 eats it for lunch at 25% the cost I paid for the beryllium bud.


----------



## furyossa

RikudouGoku said:


> I can only speak based on my own experience and I can say for sure that the beryllium driver I have is not tuned well (could be the seller didnt tune it well but there isnt anything beryllium-like about it) and it is why the MX500 is above it. They tuned it to be a bassier bud, but mid-bass focused so it causes bloat. The Yincrow X6 eats it for lunch at 25% the cost I paid for the beryllium bud.


That's why I don't like to bet on anything assembled where it says DIY. Model that you buy (130ohm) is overpriced for sure. 
They are not tuned at all, stock sound is mid-bass focused. At least you have this pair, and you can open them up and play with tuning


----------



## furyossa

Everything at one place (XinYue Audio Store). I like mixed option 
white cotton tuning paper: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002454970487.html
black foam: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002301165327.html


----------



## jeejack

RikudouGoku said:


> I can only speak based on my own experience and I can say for sure that the beryllium driver I have is not tuned well (could be the seller didnt tune it well but there isnt anything beryllium-like about it) and it is why the MX500 is above it. They tuned it to be a bassier bud, but mid-bass focused so it causes bloat. The Yincrow X6 eats it for lunch at 25% the cost I paid for the beryllium bud.


The X6 is really very good and fully worth the money but it never compares to our 130 ohm DIY drivers. Thanks to you I have X6 and Nicehck MX500 that I listen to even today. They are great budget earbuds. I would like to listen to some TOTL earbuds but I can't afford , to make a comparison with our DIY earbuds. BTW, you paid too much for 130ohm beryllium earbuds


----------



## RikudouGoku

jeejack said:


> The X6 is really very good and fully worth the money but it never compares to our 130 ohm DIY drivers. Thanks to you I have X6 and Nicehck MX500 that I listen to even today. They are great budget earbuds. I would like to listen to some TOTL earbuds but I can't afford , to make a comparison with our DIY earbuds. BTW, you paid too much for 130ohm beryllium earbuds


Yeah, probably overpriced....it was like the only store that sold assembled buds with that driver.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 22, 2021)

RikudouGoku said:


> Yeah, probably overpriced....it was like the only store that sold assembled buds with that driver.


For around $20 you can build a pair and they sell the assembled version for $50. Shame
$15 for driver and NiceHCK sale 8-core cables right now for $6-7.
Next time, ask here before you decide to pull the trigger on these "no name" buds


----------



## jeejack

My 130ohm beryllium earbuds 🧨


----------



## earfanatic (Jun 23, 2021)

I like the matching cable colours of the buds. Mine are all the same colour.
At least I need some coloured foams to mark different builds.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 23, 2021)

My new sleeping buds. For now, I will call it ORKA, but this is still WIP, there will probably be a change in appearance.
I used Blon BL03 stock cables and a K314 shell

I found some drivers in the box, I think they are EMX500 and I have bad luck with left and right channel, so they probably end up in trash can 

About AKG K314 shells. 
This shells provide good comfort and fit is ok. They are shallow, which is good for sleeping buds. The big problem is the outside diameter of the shell head. 
PK 14.8mm cover can't fit, metal mesh cover from 64ohm N55 cover is tight, and it cracked on one driver , MX500 is slightly bigger and require glue.
So all in all, pain in the A..


----------



## furyossa (Jun 23, 2021)

jeejack said:


> My 130ohm beryllium earbuds 🧨


My new 130ohm Bery build  



I tested today 3 type of shells, first my previous mod_2 (metal shell medium cavity size), 
then I tried K314 shell and this is the final mod_4 (MX500 silver shell)
These are measurements
:


----------



## jeejack

Good job as always! 🤘


----------



## furyossa

I open my HE150Pro to investigate what's going on under the hood
The shell looks nice and clean inside, at the back they use small piece of cotton filter to block outside noise and the main vent (stem) is not sealed.
On the right side is my broken OG HE150 driver. They look the same but on pro version ground wire is placed on the right side. You can see dark blue marker dot is on the opposite side. I saw a similar case with BGVP DX5. I don't know why they switch the side like that and what is the purpose in general.

Also the use very thick black foam on the back of the driver


I plan to swap this cable because it's thin because and gets quite tangled. I will try to correct the mid-bass which is a little more dominant. By the way, this model is known for its great sub-bass and huge soundstage


----------



## meju

quick & dirty diy couplers, based on Diestel PTB.


----------



## furyossa

meju said:


> quick & dirty diy couplers, based on Diestel PTB.


It's looks like some kind of seashell or coral lamp.   At least it works  BTW... you are a sculptor by profession?


----------



## PapyKahan

furyossa said:


> My new 130ohm Bery build
> 
> 
> I tested today 3 type of shells, first my previous mod_2 (metal shell medium cavity size),
> ...


Hi,

How did you tune 130Ohm Berry into your MX500 shell ?

I've tried to put them into a metal shell (medium size cavity) like you've shown into one of your post, but I have too much (for me) harshness into highs.

I've put them into an MX500 shell with a pure copper wire with a black horseshoe with a little bit of blue tack into the shell to avoid resonance, but still to much harshness into highs.

For example, Unforgiven from Metallica is messy and inaudible for me.

Too bad because I really appreciate it's bass and mids.


----------



## furyossa

PapyKahan said:


> Hi,
> 
> How did you tune 130Ohm Berry into your MX500 shell ?
> 
> ...


Yes the bass and mids are good but if you reduce size of the cavity the thing will get even worst. Don't add stuff inside the shell. For my mod I use also horseshoe black foam on the shell and stock white tuning paper on the driver and full foam over cover. I also noticed that highs is a bit too much on high volume. 
Try first with full foam and full foam + donuts over.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 24, 2021)

Another late night build "Dark Star" (because of dark signature)

This time I try 300ohm N52 with DP100 shell which is one of the most comfortable shells for 15.4 drivers.
About tuning: It is the same as on metal-wood shell - Y3 tuning paper + horseshoe black foam over the driver and I added Y3 (two pieces) over shell vents.
(posted here)

Interestingly, even though it is a totally different shell, the frequency graph does not show much change. Only because of better comfort, the details are a little clearer


----------



## meju

furyossa said:


> It's looks like some kind of seashell or coral lamp.   At least it works  BTW... you are a sculptor by profession?


I'm not a sculptor 
it's made from tissues paper and CA glue, and a clay moulded from my own ear (left: concha only, right: full pinna).

with 3 volume coupler to simulate middle ear impedance. Old design, but IMO not much different from today generic 711 standard.


----------



## furyossa

furyossa said:


> Another late night build "Dark Star" (because of dark signature)
> 
> This time I try 300ohm N52 with DP100 shell which is one of the most comfortable shells for 15.4 drivers.
> About tuning: It is the same as on metal-wood shell - Y3 tuning paper + horseshoe black foam over the driver and I added Y3 (two pieces) over shell vents.
> ...


Did anyone manage to increase the hights or at least change something related to sound signature, on the 300ohm N52 driver. I honestly ran out of options because this driver doesn't respond to anything. I already changed the shell and going back and forward with tuning filters, seal the ports and nothing This driver is a curse


----------



## jeejack (Jun 25, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Did anyone manage to increase the hights or at least change something related to sound signature, on the 300ohm N52 driver. I honestly ran out of options because this driver doesn't respond to anything. I already changed the shell and going back and forward with tuning filters, seal the ports and nothing This driver is a curse


No bro ! I also sealed the shell and in vain no change. I hate this driver 😂😂


----------



## Themilkman46290

Yeah, I got the white "green onion" version, seems to drop in the highs pretty hard


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> Did anyone manage to increase the hights or at least change something related to sound signature, on the 300ohm N52 driver. I honestly ran out of options because this driver doesn't respond to anything. I already changed the shell and going back and forward with tuning filters, seal the ports and nothing This driver is a curse


Just keep it bassy and listen to it without foams lol  Just joking

I'm currently working on builds with the N50 red rim drivers. These are hard to tune as well, it's too sharp in the mids and either lack bass or have too much bloat. But I love the comfort and ease of diy with them, potential is good.
Btw there is quite a bit of variance in terms of tightness of cover, I got a pair which is so tight that I can't put on mx500 and dp100 shells, but it works fine on shells where every other driver was too loose. And I have another one which is too loose even for mx500


----------



## furyossa (Jun 25, 2021)

jeejack said:


> No bro ! I also sealed the shell and in vain no change. I hate this driver 😂😂


Me too    I lost my youth because of it


Themilkman46290 said:


> Yeah, I got the white "green onion" version, seems to drop in the highs pretty hard


It's seams that all 300ohm driver are the same. Dark and stubborn


robar said:


> Just keep it bassy and listen to it without foams lol  Just joking
> 
> I'm currently working on builds with the N50 red rim drivers. These are hard to tune as well, it's too sharp in the mids and either lack bass or have too much bloat. But I love the comfort and ease of diy with them, potential is good.
> Btw there is quite a bit of variance in terms of tightness of cover, I got a pair which is so tight that I can't put on mx500 and dp100 shells, but it works fine on shells where every other driver was too loose. And I have another one which is too loose even for mx500


Guys I'm so angry because I disfigured two shells and spent 5-6 filters in one hour, trying to change at least something on this driver.
Now I put it back in the metal-wood shell, which as you can see, out of rage, I drilled, and I left it, this time,  bare ass (without any filter) and again the frequency graph is the same. This is a "woo-doo" driver for sure


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> Me too    I lost my youth because of it
> 
> It's seams that all 300ohm driver are the same. Dark and stubborn
> 
> ...


It's kind of crazy for us 😂. I also changed three shells. The worst is heard in the wooden shell


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> It's kind of crazy for us 😂. I also changed three shells. The worst is heard in the wooden shell


Believe it or not, I only watched one movie last night and I was so tired of this dark sound that I felt like I was at a concert


----------



## PapyKahan

I'm proud to present you my little family, from left to right :
Upside : Mr Wong modded Vido, Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch
Downside my own DIY buds : 64Ohm Full TI, 64Ohm composite TI, 400Ohm Graphene, 130Ohm Beryllium, 150Ohm red film.

My ranking :
1. Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch
2. 400Ohm graphene, I've added a small piece of blu tack that covers all the back of the shell, added black foam horse shoe on the shell and let stock white cotton on the driver. Mids are less recessed. I had to play with a right amount of blu tack to do not impact too much the sound until I found something that suit me.
3. 150 Ohm red film, just put black foam to cover holes.
4. 64 Ohm composite TI, I've put the a round piece of black foam (black foam horse shoe extra foam from the middle) just before the tube and put some surgery tape all around the rest.
5. Modded vido
6. 130 Ohm beryllium, followed furyossa recommendations
7. 64 Ohm full ti, same tuning than 64 Ohm composite ti

Thanks a lot guys for all precious information from this thread 

I've read a lot of good things from 130 Ohm and I've tried a lot of tuning, but nothing to do, highs are too fatiguing for me.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 25, 2021)

PapyKahan said:


> I'm proud to present you my little family, from left to right :
> Upside : Mr Wong modded Vido, Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch
> Downside my own DIY buds : 64Ohm Full TI, 64Ohm composite TI, 400Ohm Graphene, 130Ohm Beryllium, 150Ohm red film.
> 
> ...


Great collection you have there. 
 I didn't try Blur buds, but I'm curious: are they really that much better than say 400ohm and 150ohm "red film" models?

Are you solved the issue with 130ohm Bery? I forgot to mention one more easy solution to reduce the highs.
Cut a round piece of medical mask and putt as first layer over the openings on the driver cover, then full foam over and donut at the end (donut is optional).
Visit this post to see changes. I tested only one layer, but you can use more.
On this post you can see how this piece need to look like (see paper filter on image)


----------



## earfanatic

PapyKahan said:


> I'm proud to present you my little family, from left to right :
> Upside : Mr Wong modded Vido, Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch
> Downside my own DIY buds : 64Ohm Full TI, 64Ohm composite TI, 400Ohm Graphene, 130Ohm Beryllium, 150Ohm red film.
> 
> ...


Nice collection there!


----------



## jeejack (Jun 25, 2021)

PapyKahan said:


> I'm proud to present you my little family, from left to right :
> Upside : Mr Wong modded Vido, Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch
> Downside my own DIY buds : 64Ohm Full TI, 64Ohm composite TI, 400Ohm Graphene, 130Ohm Beryllium, 150Ohm red film.
> 
> ...


Nice collection!!!
Just put a mask on 130 ohm beryllium as furyossa said and he will be in the top 3. With my warm NW A55 he sound awesome!


----------



## PapyKahan

furyossa said:


> Great collection you have there.
> I didn't try Blur buds, but I'm curious: are they really that much better than say 400ohm and 150ohm "red film" models?
> 
> Are you solved the issue with 130ohm Bery? I forgot to mention one more easy solution to reduce the highs.
> ...



I've tested with toilet paper :'). I'll try with a piece of medical mask a let you know if it's better.

Concerning Blur Witch it's clearly subjective, but it is more balanced than others, no major default except a little bit more bass could be welcome. Blur are smooth and musical. Not as punchy as 64 Ohm composite ti or full ti.


----------



## furyossa

PapyKahan said:


> Not as punchy as 64 Ohm composite ti or full ti.


Forget about these, they are "PUNCHY" kings  at least full Ti.


----------



## jeejack

PapyKahan said:


> I've tested with toilet paper :'). I'll try with a piece of medical mask a let you know if it's better.
> 
> Concerning Blur Witch it's clearly subjective, but it is more balanced than others, no major default except a little bit more bass could be welcome. Blur are smooth and musical. Not as punchy as 64 Ohm composite ti or full ti.


And that's how we return to the stubborn 300 ohm driver. There have just been a few debates above on his subject. How much did you pay for Blur earbuds ?


----------



## furyossa

Ok it is time for new build.  This time we have HE150Pro, returned to its original MX500 suit but with a better cable. This is the "*HE150+"   *

OG HE150 and HE150Pro have similar driver, which I have shown here, but I still think OG is better, I don't know, maybe it's because of the cover itself.
OG uses standard plastic MX500 cover and Pro use metal mesh cover.
About tuning:
Here I tried first with a simple concept like the OG version, if I remember correctly it was just a horseshoe black foam on the shell and a bare driver,
but the sound was not nearly the same. Then I added Y5 white tuning paper on the driver, but there was no difference, except a bit thicker vocals.

I don't know if you've noticed that all these black MX500 shells that come with DIY drivers have a slightly wider "lip" that needs to be sanded to
the driver could be set up. In the picture below I have shown two ways I have tried, and it has been shown to affect the region around 2K.
In both cases, I avoided covering the vent on the driver. One of the important things is to make a CUT on the shell.
With this CUT, you can prevent damaging the connection with the voice coil. Black shells generally have this slit on the underside, while silver, gold and metallic reds do not.



And this is the result. Here I managed to reduce the mid-bass, which was dominant.


----------



## PapyKahan

jeejack said:


> And that's how we return to the stubborn 300 ohm driver. There have just been a few debates above on his subject. How much did you pay for Blur earbuds ?


Around 160€


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> Ok it is time for new build.  This time we have HE150Pro, returned to its original MX500 suit but with a better cable. This is the "*HE150+"  *
> 
> OG HE150 and HE150Pro have similar driver, which I have shown here, but I still think OG is better, I don't know, maybe it's because of the cover itself.
> OG uses standard plastic MX500 cover and Pro use metal mesh cover.
> ...



Wait, is it a thing to put drivers downwards in this shell? Upward orientation has always been the logical way for me, bigger solder drivers don't even fit in the smaller slit and horseshoe foam usually not large enough for covering the large opening.

Regarding lips and voice coils - I always check the driver's voice coil, in most cases it sits deep and it's impossible for the lip to harm it. But there are definitely sample variations between drivers, for example N50 drivers usually have very protected voice coils but one of my pairs have them quite exposed because they are a bit off to the side. I'm actually considering lip cutting just for them.


----------



## jogawag (Jun 25, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Ok it is time for new build.  This time we have HE150Pro, returned to its original MX500 suit but with a better cable. This is the "*HE150+"  *
> 
> OG HE150 and HE150Pro have similar driver, which I have shown here, but I still think OG is better, I don't know, maybe it's because of the cover itself.
> OG uses standard plastic MX500 cover and Pro use metal mesh cover.
> ...


I show the FR graph of original HE150 and HE150PRO for the reference.


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> I show the FR graph of original HE150 and HE150PRO for the reference.


And which one you like more?


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Wait, is it a thing to put drivers downwards in this shell? Upward orientation has always been the logical way for me, bigger solder drivers don't even fit in the smaller slit and horseshoe foam usually not large enough for covering the large opening.
> 
> Regarding lips and voice coils - I always check the driver's voice coil, in most cases it sits deep and it's impossible for the lip to harm it. But there are definitely sample variations between drivers, for example N50 drivers usually have very protected voice coils but one of my pairs have them quite exposed because they are a bit off to the side. I'm actually considering lip cutting just for them.


I did not mean the direct contact of the shell and the wire of the voice coil, but the point of pressure on the part where the opening is. 
That's why some shells have a small cut.


----------



## furyossa

PapyKahan said:


> Around 160€


I think that Mr.Wong use the drivers like these from HiFi Boy, HE etc. and not from Ali. If it does then the price is justified because they sound excellent and respond very well on tuning... and not like 300ohm N52 which will sound the same probably without the shell


----------



## jogawag

furyossa said:


> And which one you like more?


I liked the bass of the HF150.
And I felt the HF150 Pro sounded as boring as the so-so earbuds.
(I lost both of them in the disaster now...)


----------



## robar (Jun 25, 2021)

furyossa said:


> I did not mean the direct contact of the shell and the wire of the voice coil, but the point of pressure on the part where the opening is.
> That's why some shells have a small cut.


Interesting point, haven't thought of it before. When you orient it upwards, there is much more free space for the vent, this is the main reason of the change in signature isnt it? 
Most shells don't have this cut, only the ones that have thick lips that potentially get close to the voice coil. One exception for example the dp100 shell which is indeed notorious for breaking the voice coil. This is my theory anyways


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> *I liked the bass of the HF150*.
> And I felt the HF150 Pro sounded as boring as the so-so earbuds.
> (I lost both of them in the disaster now...)


For me, the best soundstage that I have heard so far. 
No BS with tuning and shells, just simple black cable, MX500 and horseshoe foam.
I broke my HF150, it was very special to me  I still keep them in a bag, maybe I'll decide to fix them


----------



## PapyKahan

furyossa said:


> Great collection you have there.
> I didn't try Blur buds, but I'm curious: are they really that much better than say 400ohm and 150ohm "red film" models?
> 
> Are you solved the issue with 130ohm Bery? I forgot to mention one more easy solution to reduce the highs.
> ...



I've just added a piece of mask on both. It's better, a way more enjoyable to me . Need time to listen to them before review my leader board


----------



## furyossa

PapyKahan said:


> I've just added a piece of mask on both. It's better, a way more enjoyable to me . Need time to listen to them before review my leader board


And post some pictures of mod, don be shy


----------



## jogawag (Jun 25, 2021)

furyossa said:


> For me, the best soundstage that I have heard so far.
> No BS with tuning and shells, just simple black cable, MX500 and horseshoe foam.
> I broke my HF150, it was very special to me  I still keep them in a bag, maybe I'll decide to fix them


If you are that crazy about the HE150, why don't you buy it below by using an agent?
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=541083718151


----------



## furyossa (Jun 26, 2021)

robar said:


> Interesting point, haven't thought of it before. When you orient it upwards, *there is much more free space* for the vent, this is the main reason of the change in signature isnt it?


Not really. The shell at that point has a slope and directs the sound wave down towards the stem opening. Along the way it encounters obstacles: driver housing, cable. This is a very narrow space, although we think the depth of the shell is large. Also, stem vent is always sealed with cable and a small portion of the air passes there
If the driver vent is oriented down, then the wave has an open path with few obstacles, but strikes directly into the posterior wall of the shell and is reflected back
Because of these, we have different resonances for both cases that seem to affect the area around 2K on the freq graph
I was surprised that the driver orientation makes a bigger difference on the graph than changing the filters on the driver and shell.


robar said:


> Most shells don't have this cut, only the ones that have thick lips that potentially get close to the voice coil.


Thick lips puts pressure on the outer edge of the cover so that cracking often occurs but in most cases not driver failure.
More dangerous is the perpendicular pressure where the driver construction joins the cover, especially where the voice coil wire passes. 
My HE150, ShoonTH, Tingo TC-200 and OG EMX500 (PK version) are victims of this problem.


robar said:


> One exception for example the dp100 shell which is indeed notorious for breaking the voice coil. This is my theory anyways


Also, MX500 silver , gold and red shells don't have this cut. You can make this cut with scalper or a small file.


----------



## furyossa

I bought Sony Ericsson HPM-64 Bass Reflex but because of stupid cable I never use it. This is how it looks





I own black version, driver is very easy to detach from shell. Here is how it looks "under the hood". 
BTW... shell material is not so bad, a combination of glossy and matte plastic.



For these buds I use some spare cable that I find in the box, nothing special here. The rubber tail has a very small hole, so you can't use thick cable.
Also It is almost imposible to push the cables through a small hole, so I used a bass reflex port, which is 3 times bigger
I saw some mmcx mod for this bud but they’re not that special for something like that.  

Final look


And measurements. These bugs have an L-shape sound signature


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> And measurements. These bugs have an L-shape sound signature


The frequency graphs does not look so bad. Only some high extension is missing. What is the driver diameter in these?


----------



## furyossa

Recently, someone asked me which buds i.e. shell have the best fit. My answer was DOCOMO, but after testing a few vintage buds from my collection, 
there was a change in my opinion. Current "comfort & fit king" is AIWA HP-V151 (1996). 

Driver size:Frequency response:Impedance:Sensitivity:16mm8Hz-25KHz16ohm107dBdB

Like Sony Ericsson HPM-64 Bass Reflex, AIWA has the same annoying cable, so I decided to build short cable (70cm) which can match HP-151 colors theme.
I use black & gold wires and YARBO plug, and I follow this method for 4-core cable



The cables were the easy part, and then the problems started. The main problems with vintage models are:
- they all use thin cable and cable canal has very small diameter
- driver cover is specially designed and there is only one way it can be placed on the shell
- shells consist of several parts, so that separation can occur because the glue that connects them is rotten. In my case, the left driver fell out of the cover.
To solve the first problem, I had to separate the golden part from the shell before I expanded the hole on the stem. By the way, there is a small bass port on this golden part.


And this is the final look. Despite the large driver, these headphones fit very well in the ear. The reason for this is the stem, its position, size and shape.



The next good thing about this model is the neutral sound, which is very pleasant for long sessions. On 3K there is a deep that is noticeable, but this can be easily corrected with EQ. All in all one of the better AIWA models for sure


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> The frequency graphs does not look so bad. *Only some high extension is missing*. What is the driver diameter in these?


Only that  Is not bad, but it's far away from good. I didn't measure diameter. Around 14mm probably


----------



## furyossa (Jun 27, 2021)

And now the driver that we all hate ... of course after 300ohm N52 
I've been deciding for a long time to do this mode, it's not that simple but it's a good challenge, just to kill boredom
So we have 64ohm full Ti aka. "Chief" and "HP" (Heavy Punch) mod

This mod was inspired by Mr @robar "heavy duty" drilling machine  and Hellboy "Right Hand Of Doom"




Funny thing, I was planning to borrow this "monstrosity" from Mr @robar to drill a hole for the cable 
Anyway… I was in a hurry, so for this mod I used next parts:
- pair of MX500 shells which I trimed  sanded that detail on the back and drill large hole, basically merging fake vent and cable canal
- pair of small size rivets,  shrink tubes (red, green and black)
- YARBO GY-3.5GS-L plug (this is the black one that I used for AIWA cable ) NOTE: this plug has short pin and can't be used with smartphone with mask on.
- 4-core copper wire (hmmm...I lost the link  )
On the driver I use Y3 white tuning paper and for shell you can see on image below.

Cable wires go around rivet and I add small piece of foam to block wires to touch the back of the shell.
The rivet enters half the depth of the shell, so with the help of a shrink tube I extended this canal all the way to the voice coil hole on the driver.

From this, you can guess what this mode does.
Here is a comparison with the Sony Erikson Bass Reflex, but "Chief" is more powerful and refined driver and produce better sound.


----------



## furyossa

This is the update to previous post about 64ohm full Ti HP.
First with Teflon tape I wrap naked part of wire near connection with driver.
I dampened fake side ports with small pieces of EVA foam
Little gaps on the side of the black shrink tube are now stuffed with cotton, and I added cotton inside the tube.
The top piece of horseshoe foam was removed from the shell and placed on top of the driver.

Violet curve represent new tuning. Bass is slightly reduced and is tighter and mids and treble are bring back from "darknes". Bass still plays a major role here


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> This is the update to previous post about 64ohm full Ti HP.
> First with Teflon tape I wrap naked part of wire near connection with driver.
> I dampened fake side ports with small pieces of EVA foam
> Little gaps on the side of the black shrink tube are now stuffed with cotton, and I added cotton inside the tube.
> ...


Are these the drivers you're talking about?


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> Are these the drivers you're talking about?


Yup


----------



## furyossa

One trick question 
I marked in the picture the place where the voice coil wires should be soldered, but how to determine the side (positive and negative v.c. wire)?


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> One trick question
> I marked in the picture the place where the voice coil wires should be soldered, but how to determine the side (positive and negative v.c. wire)?


I don't think it matters


----------



## Merlin-PT

furyossa said:


> One trick question
> I marked in the picture the place where the voice coil wires should be soldered, but how to determine the side (positive and negative v.c. wire)?


Solder it any way you want, then listen to both drivers, if they are in phase then you guess it right, if they are out of phase change the red color mark place.

Another way would be to put it in place, apply DC voltage to the wires and see if it's pulled up or down, I think that the correct polarity is when it's pulled up, but to be sure make the same test to the other driver first.


----------



## furyossa

Merlin-PT said:


> *Solder it any way you want, then listen to both drivers, if they are in phase then you guess it right, if they are out of phase change the red color mark place.*
> 
> Another way would be to put it in place, apply DC voltage to the wires and see if it's pulled up or down, I think that the correct polarity is when it's pulled up, but to be sure make the same test to the other driver first.


That is the only way. Second suggestion is hard to see


----------



## furyossa (Jun 29, 2021)

This is Mr @DBaldock9 expert answer for this problem.   


DBaldock9 said:


> With regular midrange & woofer loudspeakers, you can connect a small DC source (like a 1.5V battery) across the terminals, and see, or feel, which way the cone moves.
> With tweeters and small drivers (like earphones), that method isn't likely to work.
> 
> I know that a simple oscilloscope (like the many versions of the $47 model on Amazon), along with a microphone - can be used to identify the polarity of a loudspeaker, by visually "seeing" the direction of a small pulse applied to the driver.
> But, I'm not sure how to do the same, using just a multimeter.


----------



## Merlin-PT (Jun 29, 2021)

Without being glued the membrane and coil are expected to jump out when the applied batt polarity is correct, but I didn't tried it.


----------



## furyossa

Merlin-PT said:


> Without being glued the membrane and coil are expected to jump out if the applied batt polarity is correct.


Yup. I know. If you don't put the cover, the diaphragm can fly out the window like a


----------



## jeejack

@furyossa You do what you do and I have to blame you again 😂😂


----------



## robar (Jun 30, 2021)

jeejack said:


> @furyossa You do what you do and I have to blame you again 😂😂


Oh I envy you man, I'd like to order some drivers so much but I have to wait until the questions around EU import law and aliexpress clear out. And everything will be so much more expensive 

By the way I'm tinkering with the exact same shells you ordered. It's a kind of mix between mx760 and dp100 shells. Plastic is a bit cheap but the comfort is great and bass has good extension. It's my current sleeping bud.  Need more foam on the vents than mx500.

I'll post more info on these shells, thinking about doing drilling mods or filling up the fake vents, just like @furyossa did lately. The diameter is a bit smaller than 15.4mm, I think maybe your pink dot will be just right for it. I have a pair of N50 that has unusually tight covers and it's the only driver that stays in place without glue for me. Oh and the seller mistakenly sent me the wrong number of backplates so I can only use one pair from the two lol. 

@furyossa I'm honored that my heavy duty thing inspired you.  Great projects btw, and you made me realize that I have a 64ohm full ti in my inventory.  I never use it so I almost forgot about it. Now I'm inspired to do something with it. Love the bass but tonal balance is just not right so far with by build. I've been doing more headphone related projects but I ran out of steam, perfect time to switch back to earbuds.


----------



## jeejack

robar said:


> Oh I envy you man, I'd like to order some drivers so much but I have to wait until the questions around EU import law and aliexpress clear out. And everything will be so much more expensive
> 
> By the way I'm tinkering with the exact same shells you ordered. It's a kind of mix between mx760 and dp100 shells. Plastic is a bit cheap but the comfort is great and bass has good extension. It's my current sleeping bud.  Need more foam on the vents than mx500.
> 
> ...


At the moment we have no problem with orders on Aliexpress. I will take into account your instructions 👏. Pink dot I will put it in the wooden shell because it doesn't fit the MX500 shell and I don't want to change faceplates anymore


----------



## furyossa (Jun 30, 2021)

robar said:


> @furyossa I'm honored that my heavy duty thing inspired you.  Great projects btw, and you made me realize that I have a 64ohm full ti in my inventory.  I never use it so I almost forgot about it. Now I'm inspired to do something with it. Love the bass but tonal balance is just not right so far with by build.


Bass is ok, I manage to reduce distortion, but vocal are not that great also soundstage. EDM and Synthwave music on this pair are cool to listen but they are definitely not for all genres. My last "Heavy Punch" mod is an experiment and WIP, it's look nice but is not practical for every occasion. I use this driver because it's the only one left in the box.
I can try 130ohm Bery, but I think it will be too bassy, and I will also lose s-stage. The massive cable use a lot of space inside the shell and also seal the stem vent. For that reason, I added rivet.
When I mention 130ohm Bery, yesterday I tested a bit and tweaked my latest mod. I really like metal version (medium cavity size). The scenario in plastic (silve MX500) shell is a bit different. Here I positioned voice coil hole at top, sealed one (inner side) of side vents + full black foam and Y3 tuning paper on driver. In this case, blocking side vents (one side) will tighten a little bass (this didn't work well with 64ohm full Ti). Cable is thin and allows air to circulate through the stem. So all frequencies are well-balanced.
I tried to add small piece of Teflon tape inside the stem to partially reduce airflow and reduce the bass a bit. And yes, the bass is slightly reduced but also I noticed very low distortion which affect mids clarity. So in conclution, this driver performs well in medium cavity size shells to be able of the breath properly. If you use MX500 then don't use thick cable and block the stem because you will jeopardize clarity and soundstage which is good on this driver but with average magnitude.
Maybe because of this people complain on assembled version which uses 8-core cable ... and cost $50


----------



## robar

jeejack said:


> At the moment we have no problem with orders on Aliexpress. I will take into account your instructions 👏. Pink dot I will put it in the wooden shell because it doesn't fit the MX500 shell and I don't want to change faceplates anymore


Yep this is why I said that this plastic shell is also a lot smaller in diameter.

Have you read about the EU regulations? Every package that arrives after july 1 to the border will be subject to customs and vat. For me this is at least +27% VAT and depending on the base price an additional handling fee (2-3 usd minimum per package). But that's not all, if the VAT was not paid in advance then there's an extra handling fee for paying it after it arrived to the country. This is why I'm waiting for aliexpress to implement VAT handling internally, it would make the order a bit cheaper and shipping a bit faster. I think every EU country will have something similar to this, it doesn't matter if you order it before july 1 if it arrives after that.


----------



## Into The Light5

Have anyone tried modded mx500 housing with double pipe/tube in the stem?


----------



## furyossa

Into The Light5 said:


> Have anyone tried modded mx500 housing with double pipe/tube in the stem?


Post the picture


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Yep this is why I said that this plastic shell is also a lot smaller in diameter.
> 
> Have you read about the EU regulations? Every package that arrives after july 1 to the border will be subject to customs and vat. For me this is at least +27% VAT and depending on the base price an additional handling fee (2-3 usd minimum per package). But that's not all, if the VAT was not paid in advance then there's an extra handling fee for paying it after it arrived to the country. This is why I'm waiting for aliexpress to implement VAT handling internally, it would make the order a bit cheaper and shipping a bit faster. I think every EU country will have something similar to this, it doesn't matter if you order it before july 1 if it arrives after that.


Here I pay: price of product + 32% + shipping but now 32% is less of a problem than over $100 shipping


----------



## jeejack

robar said:


> Yep this is why I said that this plastic shell is also a lot smaller in diameter.
> 
> Have you read about the EU regulations? Every package that arrives after july 1 to the border will be subject to customs and vat. For me this is at least +27% VAT and depending on the base price an additional handling fee (2-3 usd minimum per package). But that's not all, if the VAT was not paid in advance then there's an extra handling fee for paying it after it arrived to the country. This is why I'm waiting for aliexpress to implement VAT handling internally, it would make the order a bit cheaper and shipping a bit faster. I think every EU country will have something similar to this, it doesn't matter if you order it before july 1 if it arrives after that.


I have not read. I'll document myself to see what it's all about. Thank you


----------



## robar (Jun 30, 2021)

Here's the shell we're talking about. What should be its name? @furyossa you're the naming expert 




Here it is next to DP100 transparent and MX760. If you'd like photos from inside I can take it for you. This shell has open vents only one side, the other inside has the platform but no holes. The chamber is a bit deeper than DP100, otherwise similar structure. It has better bass response compared to transparent dp100. Only MX760 has bass port, other two has one large volume inside stem. 
(Quick note: I drilled a side vent on the mx760 which you can see below, its not there by default)


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> Here's the shell we're talking about. What should be its name? @furyossa you're the naming expert
> 
> 
> 
> Here it is next to DP100 transparent and MX760. If you'd like photos from inside I can take it for you. This shell has open vents only one side, the other inside has the platform but no holes. The chamber is a bit deeper than DP100, otherwise similar structure. It has better bass response compared to transparent dp100


Yup yup! That shell shows comfort. It's a child from MX760 and DP100. It's fascinating  Congrats, now you own whole family 
Because of opening only on one side, more pressure is created. They choose to open the side which is near the Tagus. 
I usually close that side and leave the opposite one open


----------



## furyossa

MX760 has really wide stem  They probably look like some earrings when worn. Why do you think they decided to go with such a variant, 
is there any purpose for that wide stem at all


----------



## robar (Jun 30, 2021)

furyossa said:


> MX760 has really wide stem  They probably look like some earrings when worn. Why do you think they decided to go with such a variant,
> is there any purpose for that wide stem at all


There is a proper bass port in the stem, like with PK and mx500 shell but it runs next to the cable hole and not above it. It was sealed from inside like with mx500 but I opened it. I posted pictures here back in the day. This is the original design I think, looking at official photos. There are knockoffs on aliexpress for a lot of money that have one big hole in the stem, looks disgusting to me lol, poor shell is butchered 

This blue variant looks really beautiful in person. The only problem with the shape is that the corners are really sharp so it's a bit painful in the long term especially lying on it sideways. And the shallow body plus short stem mean that it can come out of ears easily if the cable is pulled. I used it for 1+ years as sleeping bud. Now it's free, I might play around with tuning a little bit.

-

The new black shell is the most comfortable out of the three, it's actually one of the most comfy earbuds I have. Tuning needs some work, currently N50 red rim is in there with stock black foam on it plus standard horseshoe on vents. It's fun but a bit too bassy and high mids need taming. This is typical of the driver. Plastic is not high quality sadly but ok.


----------



## robar (Jun 30, 2021)

@furyossa This is my original mx760 post with photos of stem, ports etc
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15540121


And this is the black shell we're talking about https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000851137552.html
I'd love a version with higher quality plastic and larger diameter so I could put on any driver without glue


----------



## furyossa

robar said:


> @furyossa This is my original mx760 post with photos of stem, ports etc
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15540121


I remember that post.
BTW...You know how to take a picture, man  All beauty shots. Pro level 
Functional design is good: side vents, separate bass port from cable canal. 
We already talk about shallow shells and what is their limitation i.e. is what sound they produce

I watched the design of these vintage earbuds from my collection, and literally none of them use the cable hole as a vent. This hole is narrow and the cables seal it.
All of them has specially designed vents for mids and bass control, and they try to avoid cable to pass through vent system.

Now let's analyze MX500 shell. It has nice dept but cable even without knot fills quite a cavity.
Back sound wave interfere with cable, either way it was set up (top / bottom orientation)  which is not so good idea here. 
And 1mill. $  question is: what is the purpose of "fake" sealed bass port.

The bass port easily can be done this way (marked as green and blue) without any horns, duct , pipes or whatever they call them


----------



## robar

furyossa said:


> I remember that post.
> BTW...You know how to take a picture, man  All beauty shots. Pro level
> Functional design is good: side vents, separate bass port from cable canal.
> We already talk about shallow shells and what is their limitation i.e. is what sound they produce
> ...


Yes this is really interesting. Do you have more info on those vintage buds by the way?

Maybe the mx500 bass port still does something passively without opening it? I'm not sure, but there has to be an explanation for it.

Thanks for your kind words, I utilized a bit of my macro and product photo skills with that one haha. A good lens plus some well-positioned diffused light can make wonders. Nowadays I'm a bit more lazy and often just upload directly from phone like today lol.


----------



## furyossa (Jun 30, 2021)

robar said:


> *Yes this is really interesting. Do you have more info on those vintage buds by the way?
> 
> Maybe the mx500 bass port still does something passively without opening it? I'm not sure, but there has to be an explanation for it.*
> 
> Thanks for your kind words, I utilized a bit of my macro and product photo skills with that one haha. A good lens plus some well-positioned diffused light can make wonders. Nowadays I'm a bit more lazy and often just upload directly from phone like today lol.


Bass port is there if you want to use it for tuning (optional solution)

Those are Sony
https://www.bloggang.com/m/viewdiary.php?id=styrene&group=7
On thes thread are all gems
http://stereo2go.com/forums/threads/aiwa-sony-mdr-5a-mdr-m-mdr-e-and-others-of-the-golden-era.3388/


----------



## jeejack

The 300 ohm driver is really crazy 😂😂😂. Until today I hated it, now I love it paired with NW A55 (Mr.Walkman FEv2 firmware) and Xd05 plus with bass boost activated


----------



## furyossa

jeejack said:


> The 300 ohm driver is really crazy 😂😂😂. Until today I hated it, now I love it paired with NW A55 (Mr.Walkman FEv2 firmware) and Xd05 plus with bass boost activated


I see you use "cold weather" mod on very hot summer day


----------



## jeejack

furyossa said:


> I see you use "cold weather" mod on very hot summer day


Only in the house where the weather is the way I want it


----------



## Wolftskyi

I have ordered *ShoonTH ESEP-01BL*, how they are great


----------



## cheebs

I forgot who it was that had an iMM-6 setup to measure? Can anyone walk me through how to calibrate the iMM-6, and what attachments are needed to measure earbuds as well. Thank you!


----------



## furyossa

cheebs said:


> I forgot who it was that had an iMM-6 setup to measure? Can anyone walk me through how to calibrate the iMM-6, and what attachments are needed to measure earbuds as well. Thank you!


https://www.audioreviews.org/rig-calibration/


----------



## furyossa

Wolftskyi said:


> I have ordered *ShoonTH ESEP-01BL*, how they are great


You will see just give them time


----------



## Wolftskyi

furyossa said:


> You will see just give them time


I meant hoped, a mistake


----------



## furyossa

Wolftskyi said:


> I meant hoped, a mistake


Are you plan to modify them? Here on this thread, we rarely talk about buds or asking questions about assembled buds.


----------



## Wolftskyi

I don't have any experience with modifying earphones in general. I would try, but I need a detailed tutorial


----------



## furyossa

Wolftskyi said:


> I don't have any experience with modifying earphones in general. I would try, but I need a detailed tutorial


In my inventory you can find different mods and also for ShoonTH


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 5, 2021)

I'm preparing to recable some of my earbuds, main reason is to change the cable/plug to balanced.
Does anyone know a store that would sell me cables with 2.5 balanced connectors already soldered?
For a reasonable price that is, not looking for a custom order.

I will ask Ry audio store and Jietu, but I have never seen the DIY cables with 2.5 plugs sold anywhere.


----------



## jeejack

sfrsfr said:


> I'm preparing to recable some of my earbuds, main reason is to change the cable/plug to balanced.
> Does anyone know a store that would sell me cables with 2.5 balanced connectors already soldered?
> For a reasonable price that is, not looking for a custom order.
> 
> I will ask Ry audio store and Jietu, but I have never seen the DIY cables with 2.5 plugs sold anywhere.


You can buy ready-made and cut their connectors. Nicehck and TRN stores on Aliexpress have good and cheap cables


----------



## sfrsfr (Jul 5, 2021)

jeejack said:


> You can buy ready-made and cut their connectors. Nicehck and TRN stores on Aliexpress have good and cheap cables


Yeah. This is likely the easiest and cheapest solution.
Or modify the shells with mmcx connectors, but that would be more difficult...
I really like the RY cables.


----------



## furyossa

sfrsfr said:


> Yeah. This is likely the easiest and cheapest solution.
> Or modify the shells with mmcx connectors, but that would be more difficult...
> I really like the RY cables.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15983594
Chitty store will do that for you


----------



## earfanatic

The metal shells from NSC store have arrived, and these are beautiful.
14.8mm diameter (in theory)








Tried to snap on some grille/cover.
PK style is a bit small, wont fit.
14.8mm metal mesh cover is possibly okay.
I had some 32Ohm titanium drivers, that I removed from the original cover, and I had one undamaged test cover to put on without drivers.
That was a tight fit. So tight, I could not remove it. No matter what I tried.
Then I had to open the back with a needle, to try to push the cover from the back.




Put a stick in, pushed, but still couldn't remove it. I was so angry, I even put it in the freezer, to see if it shrinks a bit, but no luck.
Whatever I tried I only damaged the cover, first the metal grille fall off, then the only way to remove the cover was to peel it from the shell.




So, no luck yet but damages. It is definitely not easy to DIY. I could not tune the driver when I couldn't have removed it, anyway.
These 32Ohm titaniums are my unicorn. Now I have one original, and two modified in a PK front cover, but no original cover.
Now I look around on Ali for spares. Again.


----------



## Into The Light5

Ok so here is that 14.8mm taobao driver, have some unused zephone cable, all i can say is it is brighter than yuin pk3, hence making it sound more balanced, also good technicality, i didnt do any tuning, i just smacked the stock damper and soldered the cable


----------



## earfanatic

Into The Light5 said:


> Ok so here is that 14.8mm taobao driver, have some unused zephone cable, all i can say is it is brighter than yuin pk3, hence making it sound more balanced, also good technicality, i didnt do any tuning, i just smacked the stock damper and soldered the cable


Why everyone have coloured foams but me? Nice set!


----------



## jogawag

earfanatic said:


> Why everyone have coloured foams but me? Nice set!


You can buy them from below.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32671911259.html


----------



## Whitigir

Subscribed !! These are so easy to sleep with.  I am so glad to see DIY thread


----------



## Whitigir

Allow me to join the gang with MX985 Recabled  with Neotech Litz Silver and Pentaconn 4.4

Soon I will have a DIY 600 ohms beryllium in Mx500 body and ATH 200TI.  Hopefully both can measure upto MX985


----------



## captione (Jul 8, 2021)

@jeejack I just found a solution to fit your metal mesh pink dots in MX500s.

All you have to do is buy those MX500 shells variants with a lip cutout (either the transparent ones or the black ones with engraved L and R markings). The lips on there ends thinly from the body so it's a bit more easy to fit on the shallow faceplate depth of those metal mesh. Just make sure you put the voice coil vent on the lip cutout.

I tested this already and it fits them somehow.


Spoiler: Picture 












Also if you guys are planning to tune the pink dots, I have some ideas, all you have to do is to cover the coil vent, leaving some driver vents in the process.
I tried the usual coil vent up method and the upper mids seems strident, but covering it makes it less energetic in that area.

There's also something I noticed when I tuned these pink dots, and it seems to be more bright in transparent shells (with the lips cutout, no faux vent) compared to the usual normal ones without lip cutout, and exhibits more lower treble control.

Putting only a full horseshoe (horseshoe foam that fully covers the driver vents) really turns the pink dot into a more balanced, U shaped signature. The humongous overall bass got turned into warmth and sub bass focus and the 2khz - 5khz shifted to parts of the upper treble.
This is also applicable to any big solder drivers too! I tested it on my green dots and the treble shift seems to help with the stridency in its stock signature.

Hope this helps!

Also one more question.
I got interested in your hardships on tuning the 300ohms, and I'm curious to see the result if you removed the preapplied foam and seal the shell vents completely. Like giving it like a full closed headphone effect as shown from @furyossa ShoonTH post. Maybe restraining completely of air movement might help with the treble?
There's also an option where you leave the pre applied foam alone and put a circle foam (those foams that come with pairs of horseshoe foams) on the inside of the lips where the coil vent meets.


----------



## furyossa

Nice job man with pink's. 
Don't bother with 300ohm N52 not worth it, I tried everything u can use foam, cover every hole or leave it with bare ass, on freq. graph no changes.


----------



## jeejack

captione said:


> @jeejack I just found a solution to fit your metal mesh pink dots in MX500s.
> 
> All you have to do is buy those MX500 shells variants with a lip cutout (either the transparent ones or the black ones with engraved L and R markings). The lips on there ends thinly from the body so it's a bit more easy to fit on the shallow faceplate depth of those metal mesh. Just make sure you put the voice coil vent on the lip cutout.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion. I also solved with them in the MX500 shell. I changed faceplates


----------



## earfanatic

This gonna be so much fun!





Spoiler: More photos


----------



## furyossa (Jul 9, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> This gonna be so much fun!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: More photos


Nice

Post the link for the ear ... or is it yours? 
The average length of the adult ear canal is approximately 22.5 mm. 
Is the same case with silicone ear?


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Nice
> 
> Post the link for the ear ... or is it yours?
> The average length of the adult ear canal is approximately 22.5 mm.
> Is the same case with silicone ear?


It is a piercing practice silicone ear from Ali. I recommend this longer ear canal model.Link
I only found it after I ordered the short one.

Earphones fit well, tight, although it is an average Chinese size ear, bit on the smaller size, but good for this application.

I am still learning how much longer the coupler canal should be, where from that 22.5mm is measured.


----------



## earfanatic

In my silicon ear the ear canal is bending, not straight, it is like real. I would expect the longer one to be also anatomially correct.
This is the length of mine, seems a bit short:


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> In my silicon ear the ear canal is bending, not straight, it is like real. I would expect the longer one to be also anatomially correct.
> This is the length of mine, seems a bit short:


Yup. It is short, but you can extend it with silicone tube or 3D print small extension part. 
Bending is important also. I use these two reference images for my model (3D print)


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Yup. It is short, but you can extend it with silicone tube or 3D print small extension part.
> Bending is important also. I use these two reference images for my model (3D print)


Thank You! I will post it when I make progress.


----------



## earfanatic

A little brainstorming.
I saw these new line of 13mm drivers probably for bluetooth earphones. These are flat, and thinner than a regular earphone speaker.
I have successfully put 14.2mm driver in a 14.8mm cover, but 13mm is a little small.

Then I was wandering what to do with the additional space.
Has anyone before tried to tilt the driver, like headphone makers do like Sennheiser?
With a small adapter, a 13mm driver could be fixed tilted in a bigger shell cover like this:



Of couse it only wort the effort, if those drivers are any good.
Whad do You think?


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> A little brainstorming.
> I saw these new line of 13mm drivers probably for bluetooth earphones. These are flat, and thinner than a regular earphone speaker.
> I have successfully put 14.2mm driver in a 14.8mm cover, but 13mm is a little small.
> 
> ...


Try to find a ring like this for that size, you could also make some 3D printed holder
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002360064453.html


----------



## earfanatic (Jul 15, 2021)

Something like that would work, yes.
I am researching this, even resizing those adapter rings could be okay.


----------



## earfanatic (Jul 16, 2021)

A little diy project. This is my first 3D carving a PK shell.
I used a mini drill tool like a Dremmel, and several burr heads.

This was the result.




You get the idea:




The idea was zebra stripes, but it turned out more like scars.

In the end I liked more without color. It is like white scrap wood. So I finished it like this:




There are several lessons I learned:
-it is easy to draw on these with a pencil to try out various pattern
-these are harder (material) than I thought
-always turns out to be different in the end... but it is DIY in the heart.

I decided to make my buds unique, because otherwise these look all the same.


----------



## gheagz07

Just like to ask, if the hair like wire of the coil is cut off, can it still be salvaged?


----------



## furyossa

gheagz07 said:


> Just like to ask, if the hair like wire of the coil is cut off, can it still be salvaged?


It can but is very hard to do


----------



## assassin10000

Doing some measurements earlier and noticed some severe imbalance on my white LB earbuds.







I had been hoping to get a hold of a pair of broken driver or cable K's earbuds with the bell shaped housing for my next diy build. Unfortunately the one person that did have a pair threw them out the day before I contacted them . But looking at the graph I guess I now have a pair of donor shells...


----------



## PapyKahan

Just received 130Ohm LCP drivers into my inbox and put them into a pair of mx500 with black horseshoe foam.

Not bad at all, I'll let them burn before any more feedbacks.
Do any of you already tested them?


----------



## furyossa (Jul 19, 2021)

PapyKahan said:


> Just received 130Ohm LCP drivers into my inbox and put them into a pair of mx500 with black horseshoe foam.
> 
> Not bad at all, I'll let them burn before any more feedbacks.
> Do any of you already tested them?


this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002567236834.html?
I expecting it this week. I order my LPC from here but there is only  32ohm and 120ohm version.
It's look the same and it has better price. BTW... It’s not cheap at all, so better be good


----------



## PapyKahan

You're right. First impression is : mostly mid centric with an intimate sound stage.


----------



## furyossa

PapyKahan said:


> You're right. First impression is : mostly mid centric with an intimate sound stage.


Now I am totally disappointed
BTW I ordered my pair here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002541746454.html


----------



## PapyKahan

It's just my first impression . I've listened to them 20 minutes on my Chord Mojo, which is not known to provide huge sound stage.


----------



## PapyKahan

- error


----------



## furyossa

PapyKahan said:


> It's just my first impression . I've listened to them 20 minutes on my Chord Mojo, which is not known to provide huge sound stage.


 Because of narrow soundstage and intimate sound, I switched from IEMs to buds a few years ago and never look back.
Last year, DLC driver was quite popular due to its very good implementation in BLON IEMs. Then some buds appeared with this driver, but none of them really became famous.
Maybe LPC is one of those drivers that just works better with IEM. We will see


----------



## PapyKahan

After 70 hours of burn and 5 hours of listening, my point of view has completely changed.



I will take 130Ohm beryllium as a reference for the following feedback.



Presentation :

With LCP you are surrounded by the music. Bery seems to be more distant.



Sound Stage :

I was totally wrong. The sound stage is wide and deep. As the music surround me, the first impression was an intimate soundstage.



Bass :

Bass with LCP are more impactful than bery, even though I prefer Bery's bass texture.



Mids :

Wow effect there, because you will be in the middle of everything. Still prefer smoothness of bery.



Trebles :

Trebles are more precise than bery without being harsher.



Details :

Lot more detailed than bery, but is it the fact that the presentation is not the same?

I don't really know currently. I need more listening to identify of it's true or not.



Those drivers are more fatiguing than bery, which as a more relaxing sound.

Paired with a warm source previous statement may be false.



To conclude very good driver, I love them


----------



## captione

Dang, my 64ohm Black Dot Titanium broke (coil glue got loose, driver flex), and those very pairs were one of my first diy projects too ☹️ it's okay though since it's been a year since. 

Soooo I'm going to buy another pair again LOL. Also, I'm going to buy the biodyna big solders, 150ohm Foster drivers and an OP139 along with it since I gotta treat myself on my birthday 🥳

I'm gonna do a mega big solder comparison when the drivers come since they're pretty much complete now, with the exception of some red dot variants, though I don't really expect a big change on them that much so I skipped it. 

I also bought a Zishan U1 (ESS variant) because my beloved Meizu Hifi DAC can't power some of my builds anymore. Can't wait to tell everything to you guys!


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Dang, my 64ohm Black Dot Titanium broke (coil glue got loose, driver flex), and those very pairs were one of my first diy projects too ☹️ it's okay though since it's been a year since.
> 
> Soooo I'm going to buy another pair again LOL. Also, I'm going to buy the biodyna big solders, 150ohm Foster drivers and an OP139 along with it since I gotta treat myself on my birthday 🥳
> 
> ...


 150ohm Foster drivers and an OP139 links?


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> 150ohm Foster drivers and an OP139 links?


150ohm Foster
US $9.80
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOhT7Mx

OP139
US $19.99
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNfeoZv


----------



## furyossa (Jul 24, 2021)

captione said:


> 150ohm Foster
> US $9.80
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOhT7Mx


How do you know this is Foster driver?
This is Foster driver inside ShoonTH ESEP-01BL



captione said:


> OP139
> US $19.99
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNfeoZv


Looks cool but for me only drawback is high sensitivity (118dB)


----------



## captione (Jul 24, 2021)

furyossa said:


> How do you know this is Foster driver?
> 
> Looks cool but for me only drawback is high sensitivity (118dB)


You can identify it as a Foster when the seller calls it Fengda or Funda, which is basically Foster in Chinese.

I tackled it on the big solder megapost I did months back, but you can identify a Foster/Foster-type driver with a 2 solder dots* and an extended pcb to the coil vent. The big solders are technically Foster made drivers but would rather call em by their own name because of their unique pcb layout.

These are also the very same type of drivers that Sennheiser uses on the MX series of earbuds.

Also, I personally don't think high sensitivity is a drawback for earbuds. I wanna encourage efficiency as possible for convenience, especially for people like me back then starting out and not having a great source other than a phone. It's a portable medium afterall, but hey, it's a preference 👌


----------



## furyossa (Jul 24, 2021)

captione said:


> Also, I personally don't think high sensitivity is a drawback for earbuds. I wanna encourage efficiency as possible for convenience, especially for people like me back then starting out and not having a great source other than a phone. *It's a portable medium afterall, but hey, it's a preference* 👌


Yup. It's definitely personal preference 

Here is link for  ShoonTH ESEP-01BL on Ali, if someone don't like Penon.


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> Yup. It's definitely personal preference
> 
> Here is link for  ShoonTH ESEP-01BL on Ali, if someone don't like Penon.


Yup! And the OP139 will be very interesting to the comparison because it's one of the most sensitive and easy to drive among the big solders, so I'm excited 🥴

Also, speaking of ShoonTH and DP100 stuff, I wanna tackle the 300ohm and put it in a DP100 shell in the future. Gonna basically reshell a QIGOM White Lotus (same drivers) to it. I'm gonna transfer the faceplate to a proper MX760 too and see if something changes to the signature. 
(though I have a feeling that it'll be the same but hey, it's better than putting other drivers I did and tuning that dang shell for months 😂)


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Yup! And the OP139 will be very interesting to the comparison because it's one of the most sensitive and easy to drive among the big solders, so I'm excited 🥴
> 
> Also, speaking of ShoonTH and DP100 stuff, I wanna tackle the 300ohm and put it in a DP100 shell in the future. Gonna basically reshell a QIGOM White Lotus (same drivers) to it. I'm gonna transfer the faceplate to a proper MX760 too and see if something changes to the signature.
> (though I have a feeling that it'll be the same but hey, it's better than putting other drivers I did and tuning that dang shell for months 😂)


Do you mean 300ohm N52? I already tried with DP100 and didn't change at all. Don't waste time on it


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> Do you mean 300ohm N52? I already tried with DP100 and didn't change at all. Don't waste time on it


Yup, those N52s. Before tuning them, I'm gonna give it a try stock, and see if I like it. 
If the sound doesn't change with the DP100 shell, at least it's gonna give comfort and aesthetics too since those DP100 transparent shell looks goooood.


----------



## furyossa

One driver on my ShoonTH went completely silent. I'll probably take a new pair but before that I'm waiting for these drivers  that look a lot like the ShoonTH Foster driver


----------



## furyossa (Jul 24, 2021)

captione said:


> Yup, those N52s. Before tuning them, I'm gonna give it a try stock, and see if I like it.
> If the sound doesn't change with the DP100 shell, at least it's gonna give comfort and aesthetics too since those DP100 transparent shell looks goooood.


I use DP100 from ShoonTH as sleeping buds, because of great fit and comfort. N52 is a stubborn driver (hard to tune) and it does not deserve a good shell like DP100. You'll see what I'm talking about soon.


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> I use DP100 from ShoonTH as sleeping buds, because of great fit and comfort. N52 is a stubborn driver (hard to tune) and it does not deserve a good shell like DP100. You'll see what I'm talking about soon.


I gotta have a try for some risky things then 😂
Though that 300ohm driver is fairly popular here, so I got really interested when you guys gave it the yuck face. 

Also, rest assured, those drivers you linked are the same drivers from your ShoonTH. I think it came from an OEM manufacturer called Haoyun. You can check their alibaba listing here (with full technical specs and graph).


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> Also, rest assured, those drivers you linked are the same drivers from your ShoonTH. I think it came from an OEM manufacturer called Haoyun. You can check their alibaba listing here (with full technical specs and graph).


Hmmm... driver from my link has green PCB and Shoonth use blue one. Your link on Alibaba is ShoonTH driver 100%


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> Hmmm... driver from my link has green PCB and Shoonth use blue one. Your link on Alibaba is ShoonTH driver 100%


It's possible that they changed the pcb colors with no effect to the whole sound, though personally I'd rather be accurate to the ShoonTH driver so if you're willing to buy bulk prices, you should go for that alibaba listing! 

Also some aliex sellers might be selling those same drivers with the correct pcb, though ordering from other sellers with different items in your cart can be a pain


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> It's possible that they changed the pcb colors with no effect to the whole sound, though personally I'd rather be accurate to the ShoonTH driver so if you're willing to buy bulk prices, you should go for that alibaba listing!
> 
> Also some aliex sellers might be selling those same drivers with the correct pcb, though ordering from other sellers with different items in your cart can be a pain


I will see what can I do and if it's possible to get drivers from Alibaba. BTW...these ShoonTH driver is unique about 3 things: Fast bass, wide stage and precise imaging.
No DIY drivers that I tried not have these features


----------



## vygas

captione said:


> Yup! And the OP139 will be very interesting to the comparison because it's one of the most sensitive and easy to drive among the big solders, so I'm excited 🥴
> 
> Also, speaking of ShoonTH and DP100 stuff, I wanna tackle the 300ohm and put it in a DP100 shell in the future. Gonna basically reshell a QIGOM White Lotus (same drivers) to it. I'm gonna transfer the faceplate to a proper MX760 too and see if something changes to the signature.
> (though I have a feeling that it'll be the same but hey, it's better than putting other drivers I did and tuning that dang shell for months 😂)


Every time you mention the OP139 I cry from the fact I broke the coil on mine for the sake of science  , though I still need to wait till I can order my batch of drivers from china to get a couple pairs of the OP139 handy


----------



## captione (Jul 24, 2021)

vygas said:


> Every time you mention the OP139 I cry from the fact I broke the coil on mine for the sake of science  , though I still need to wait till I can order my batch of drivers from china to get a couple pairs of the OP139 handy


What can I say, a good earbud really breaks a man 🥴
Had the same feeling too with my Pink dots, they're just too good 🤓
Hope you get your 2nd pair tho, but those spare OP139 shells are definitely something I'd buy. I wish a listing pops out for it LOL


----------



## furyossa

captione said:


> What can I say, a good earbud really breaks a man 🥴
> Had the same feeling too with my Pink dots, they're just too good 🤓
> Hope you get your 2nd pair tho, but those spare OP139 shells are definitely something I'd buy. I wish a listing pops out for it LOL


I think that 14.8mm 64ohm N55 driver has the same size as pink dot. I use JVC HA-F11 shell for N55 because it has perfect size for this 14.8mm metal mesh cover





Also there are few colors


----------



## captione

furyossa said:


> I think that 14.8mm 64ohm N55 driver has the same size as pink dot. I use JVC HA-F11 shell for N55 because it has perfect size for this 14.8mm metal mesh cover
> 
> 
> Also there are few colors


Thanks for the heads up, but those metal mesh versions of the Pink dots (if that's what you're referring to) are bigger (15.4mm vs 14.8mm) but more finicky than a usual 15.4mm faceplate, as it would only fit flush with shells that has lips like the DP100 shells has.

Though that could be a good alternative for a 14.8mm shell, taking note of it for future use 🤩
I've been planning to make use of my Monk Lite shell, but I have no plans for 14.8mm right now, all of my plans are flooded with 15.4mm 😆
Maybe I'll put in those 14.8mm 32ohm Titanium or that 64ohms driver you mentioned someday...


----------



## TheLastAurora

Quick question: where do you guys get your cables for DIY from? I've seem lots of cool ones, but I can't seem to find any from ali. I really like the thin ones...


----------



## furyossa

TheLastAurora said:


> Quick question: where do you guys get your cables for DIY from? I've seem lots of cool ones, but I can't seem to find any from ali. I really like the thin ones...


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-15983594


----------



## PapyKahan

Look who I've just found into my mailbox. Lucky me I buy them 13€ into a Swiss internet store. This was the last one.


----------



## furyossa (Jul 28, 2021)

PapyKahan said:


> Look who I've just found into my mailbox. Lucky me I buy them 13€ into a Swiss internet store. This was the last one.


Be careful when you're detaching that silver part on the shell. Also use silver plated or pure silver cable with them


----------



## PapyKahan

furyossa said:


> Be careful when you're detaching that silver part on the shell. Also use silver plated or pure silver cable with them


Thank you for your help.

I already have one pair of red film 150Ohm with a silver plated cable into pk shells. I have a pair of metal shells for them, do you think that I could have good results with this setup?


----------



## rprodrigues

@PapyKahan
Which model is that? Nokia HDD-1?


----------



## PapyKahan

Yes exactly


----------



## furyossa

PapyKahan said:


> Thank you for your help.
> 
> I already have one pair of red film 150Ohm with a silver plated cable into pk shells. I have a pair of metal shells for them, do you think that I could have good results with this setup?


My first mod is this metal shell which is great, fit and comfort wise, but this driver give the best result in docomo shell.


----------



## TheLastAurora

Hey, guys! So, am I missing something? Not getting sound. I'm new to this hobbie, so...


----------



## PapyKahan

TheLastAurora said:


> Hey, guys! So, am I missing something? Not getting sound. I'm new to this hobbie, so...


Did you try to measure the resistance ?
If you have 0Ohm the voice coil wire may be broken.
If not you have a wiring problem.


----------



## vygas

PapyKahan said:


> Look who I've just found into my mailbox. Lucky me I buy them 13€ into a Swiss internet store. This was the last one.


Congrats my friend, you got the better batch of the HDD-1 drivers. I've had a couple green dot Red Films that are presumably from newer HDD-1's and they didn't handle the low-end as well as the black marked drivers. Still, be careful when opening that shell up for a re-cable, I've had to snip the rubber ends of the stress relief at times just to fit some.


----------



## TheLastAurora

PapyKahan said:


> Did you try to measure the resistance ?
> If you have 0Ohm the voice coil wire may be broken.
> If not you have a wiring problem.


Don't have a multimeter. But i checked both the solder and the wiring and it's everything ok. It might be broken then...


----------



## assassin10000

Ordered a pair of Nokia buds off ebay. Hoping they're the same drivers as the PK2 (or was it BK?).


----------



## rprodrigues (Jul 28, 2021)

@assassin10000

Could you tell me if these are the 14.8mm 32ohm ti drivers you have, please?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001686050644.html


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> @assassin10000
> 
> Could you tell me if these are the 14.8mm 32ohm ti drivers you have, please?
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001686050644.html



Yep.

Also available here:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLVj0Bt
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005002318950933.html


----------



## assassin10000

Doing some prep, as I'm still undecided on what drivers I want to use for my now donor K's shells.





I also took some time to figure out how to take apart a pair of 14.8mm 150Ω redfilm drivers (that had a one bad driver). They don't fit the newer style covers very well, too loose. If I decide to use my last good pair with the K's shells, I'll most likely have to glue them. 





The older style covers do not fit the K's bell shaped shells.


----------



## PapyKahan

Recable done 
Now let's go to my burnin process


----------



## TheLastAurora

Yeah, so... 

I waited for nearly two months and got a broken LCP driver and a not so good post-buy experience from Chitty store, but that happens - I guess. Not the best way to start a jorney lmao. Today I managed to rip the driver safely. Any ideas on how to repair this? If possible ofc.


----------



## earfanatic

What is wrong with it? Did You measure it before soldering? Did it work, or it was Doa?


----------



## TheLastAurora

earfanatic said:


> What is wrong with it? Did You measure it before soldering? Did it work, or it was Doa?


I don't have a multimeter, so I didn't test with it, but I did test with two different cables before soldering and yeah, it was dead.


----------



## furyossa

TheLastAurora said:


> Yeah, so...
> 
> I waited for nearly two months and got a broken LCP driver and a not so good post-buy experience from Chitty store, but that happens - I guess. Not the best way to start a jorney lmao. Today I managed to rip the driver safely. Any ideas on how to repair this? If possible ofc.


Yup. You should have checked the driver with a multimeter and taken pictures and sent to Chitty. That's the only way to replace a broken driver


----------



## earfanatic

TheLastAurora said:


> I don't have a multimeter, so I didn't test with it, but I did test with two different cables before soldering and yeah, it was dead.


Well, if You have a soldering station, then definitely get a multimeter too. It doesn't need to be the best, a $20 dmm is okay for testing signal wires. And get familiar with Ohm's law too, it is easy.
Next time You will get good drivers, and have fan!


----------



## jeejack

TheLastAurora said:


> Yeah, so...
> 
> I waited for nearly two months and got a broken LCP driver and a not so good post-buy experience from Chitty store, but that happens - I guess. Not the best way to start a jorney lmao. Today I managed to rip the driver safely. Any ideas on how to repair this? If possible ofc.


I'm sorry for you ! Always check drivers before soldering. In this hobby a multimeter is a must have. This model is cheap and very good for what we do here. As a consolation, so to speak, you are not the only one who breaks the drivers.
Handheld Digital Multimeter LCD Backlight Portable AC/DC Ammeter Voltmeter Ohm Voltage Tester Meter Multimetro https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0VLaYF


----------



## earfanatic

jeejack said:


> As a consolation, so to speak, you are not the only one who breaks the drivers.


Oh, yes! 

Also a multimeter will help to match driver impedance/resistance (select the ones that matches best).


----------



## TheLastAurora

Holy sh**.
I can't believe that I actually fixed it. These are the LCP 130, and my first pair. So far I like these 😃


----------



## furyossa

TheLastAurora said:


> Holy sh**.
> I can't believe that I actually fixed it. These are the LCP 130, and my first pair. So far I like these 😃


congrats! now explain what the problem was and how you solved it


----------



## TheLastAurora (Jul 30, 2021)

furyossa said:


> congrats! now explain what the problem was and how you solved it


At first glance, you could tell the voice coil was fine and soldered in place, but I wasn't getting sound at all, So I did as follow:

1. Applied glue removal from Loctite on the sides of the place the drivers sits (the "faceplate, or whatever is called) and waited a few min;
2. Then I've noticed that the glue removal was actually dissolving the plastic shell! I carefully used a needle to scratch the sides of the membrane ring to get a better surface to reaction;
3. A little after, I removed the excess with cotton and tried to loose the driver carefully with the needle. With little strength it is possible to do without damaging much of the "faceplate";

*. After a further inspection, I noticed that the voicecoil was actually broken, but not only that: it was being held by very, very tiny pieces of a black tape right in the bass vent port, which is very strange if you ask me...

4. Took the cover and the membrane apart and noticed that the voice coil wire wasn't long enough so I could just solder it back, as easy as it is;
5. Then, I had the *dumb/brilliant *idea of soldering some very thin 7n silver cables to the copper wire, using an absolutely minimum quantity of solder - they are about the same thickness btw -;

And yeah, it actually worked and I cant tell any volume difference between the channels. I'm really happy that worked out, it was tiring.


----------



## furyossa

TheLastAurora said:


> At first glance, you could tell the voice coil was fine and soldered in place, but I wasn't getting sound at all, So I did as follow:
> 
> 1. Applied glue removal from Loctite on the sides of the place the drivers sits (the "faceplate, or whatever is called) and waited a few min;
> 2. Then I've noticed that the glue removal was actually dissolving the plastic shell! I carefully used a needle to scratch the sides of the membrane ring to get a better surface to reaction;
> ...


Bro if you were filming whole process, that video would probably be the most watched here on the forum 
Your glue removal from Loctite has the same effect as Acetone. It's also dissolving the plastic shell, so you need to be quick.
About your *brilliant *idea, that is 2nd method to fix broken voice coil wire. 1st method is very risky, and that is to warm up a voice coil strands and try to unroll (both strands individually in the opposite direction). There is a high risk that the wire will break again. You chose the safer method
You said _"they are about the same thickness" _which is a bit funny. Did you compare them through a microscope 
All in all great job man. I am glad that you fix these drivers. I bought 120ohm version and I will test it probably next week


----------



## TheLastAurora

furyossa said:


> Bro if you were filming whole process, that video would probably be the most watched here on the forum
> Your glue removal from Loctite has the same effect as Acetone. It's also dissolving the plastic shell, so you need to be quick.
> About your *brilliant *idea, that is 2nd method to fix broken voice coil wire. 1st method is very risky, and that is to warm up a voice coil strands and try to unroll (both strands individually in the opposite direction). There is a high risk that the wire will break again. You chose the safer method
> You said _"they are about the same thickness" _which is a bit funny. Did you compare them through a microscope
> All in all great job man. I am glad that you fix these drivers. I bought 120ohm version and I will test it probably next week


Thank you! Yeah, I've read about the heating too, but I doubt that a LCP membrane would survive that. Anyways, I'm looking forward of your tests with the 120, but wouldn't it be the same as the 130, maybe? Do you got a set of them already?


----------



## furyossa

Yup. They arrived a few days ago, but I have 3-4 more different pairs of drivers, so I'm testing them first.
I don't know if 120ohm and 130ohm are the same. Ale you compare the rest of specs and is it look like yours?


----------



## PapyKahan

It's my 130Ohm LCP. It looks like the same as yours.


----------



## FranQL (Jul 31, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> Yep.
> 
> Also available here:
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLVj0Bt
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005002318950933.html



I have three PK shells, and had only bought one driver, so I pulled the trigger on this one. Thanks.

There's still a vacancy left .... I'll reserve it in case I can ever get a red film.

or maybe this


https://a.aliexpress.com/_uzCUCd


----------



## furyossa

PapyKahan said:


> It's my 130Ohm LCP. It looks like the same as yours.


XinYue Audio Store and NSC Store sales these 32 and 120ohm versions at same price ($24)
JieTu Audio Store sale 32ohm ($27) and 130ohm ($34). 
Obviously, the same drivers are in question. The difference between 120 and 130 is almost negligible and the price difference is almost $10
Unbelievable.


----------



## earfanatic

FranQL said:


> I have three PK shells, and had only bought one driver, so I pulled the trigger on this one. Thanks.


I think this driver need more shell volume than the original PK shell. I am yet to try it in the b40 size PK, or in the NSC blue metal shell, I have prepared a cover that fits both.
I need to buy thin shrink tube before I continue it.


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> I think this driver need more shell volume than the original PK shell. I am yet to try it in the b40 size PK, or in the NSC blue metal shell, I have prepared a cover that fits both.
> I need to buy thin shrink tube before I continue it.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002253073586.html


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002253073586.html


Thank you! Looks good. But I rather go to a local microelectronics store for these. There are a few in the city but it is hard to find time to visit.


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> Thank you! Looks good. But I rather go to a local microelectronics store for these. There are a few in the city but it is hard to find time to visit.


Even better. This is the "must-have" for DIY especially for cables


----------



## furyossa

I measure ShoonTH OG driver with this one, and they use exactly the same model.
Small difference in graph is because OG is break-in already and the other is not






Note: on these image, PCB is green because of yellow light.




This is what I got. PCB is blue like OG SmooTHdriver
The only problem here is where to find black DP100 shell (not transparent).
BTW...this is not DP100 shell, but it fits great with MX760 ShoonTH ie Foster driver


----------



## TheLastAurora

Anyone tried these already?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...store_pc_allProduct.8148356.26.247c58d8DTNqpY

btw, are these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400....store_pc_allProduct.8148356.8.54572196J2qhtL
the called 64ti?


----------



## furyossa

TheLastAurora said:


> Anyone tried these already?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...store_pc_allProduct.8148356.26.247c58d8DTNqpY
> 
> btw, are these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400....store_pc_allProduct.8148356.8.54572196J2qhtL
> the called 64ti?


Don't buy 64ohm full Ti, composite Ti (similar as Bery on the 1st link) has better SQ


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 3, 2021)

deleted...


----------



## TheLastAurora

Ordered couple of shells, including the metal one from NSC. But I made a mistake and forgot to order some driver covers that i'm in need, so i'll have to order again. I'll get two more cheap drivers too, so any recommendations? Something with great great tonal weight, natural male vocals and forward laid-back treble, kinda wet. Not sure if that exists with that price tho, but I've read about a similar driver as Rosemary(which is of my like)?


----------



## Whitigir

GHXAmp 600ohms Driver’s! I am not sure what diaphragm it has, but I am very impressed.  The cables is FiiO silver Litz . The magnets are so strong! They react when sir close by


----------



## furyossa

Whitigir said:


> GHXAmp 600ohms Driver’s! I am not sure what diaphragm it has, but I am very impressed.  The cables is FiiO silver Litz . The magnets are so strong! They react when sir close by


600ohm driver has beryllium coated diaphragm


----------



## earfanatic

It is not new, but I post it again.
If someone is looking for long docomo shell in WHITE, this Shozy costs as low as €17.3 + TAX now.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.2.b0b97480Q7wGH7


----------



## earfanatic

I have sorted the disassebled Nokia HDD-1 drivers.
I do not know what does the color dots mean.
There are 5 variants clockwise (left-top):

purple-purple
blue-purple
orange-blue
blue-blue
green-blue
Also notice the different minus sign on the purple-purple.
Anybody have a hint about those?


----------



## Rary

TheLastAurora said:


> Ordered couple of shells, including the metal one from NSC. But I made a mistake and forgot to order some driver covers that i'm in need, so i'll have to order again. I'll get two more cheap drivers too, so any recommendations? Something with great great tonal weight, natural male vocals and forward laid-back treble, kinda wet. Not sure if that exists with that price tho, but I've read about a similar driver as Rosemary(which is of my like)?


For tonal weight and great sound quality i recommend 64ohm ti Link
You could also try this new 19-21 variant Link


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 7, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> I do not know what does the color dots mean.
> There are 5 variants clockwise (left-top):
> 
> purple-purple
> ...



Maybe this answer.

Source here.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 7, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> I have sorted the disassebled Nokia HDD-1 drivers.
> I do not know what does the color dots mean.
> There are 5 variants clockwise (left-top):
> 
> ...


Could just be the paint marker colors given to whoever assembled them.



Edit: Also, I'm jealous of how many of those you have.


----------



## earfanatic

assassin10000 said:


> Could just be the paint marker colors given to whoever assembled them.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Also, I'm jealous of how many of those you have.


I hope we find out one day.
I could match pairs very well if I mix different colour marked.


----------



## FranQL

assassin10000 said:


> Edit: Also, I'm jealous of how many of those you have.


----------



## rprodrigues

assassin10000 said:


> Edit: Also, I'm jealous of how many of those you have.



You are not alone...


----------



## FranQL

rprodrigues said:


> You are not alone...


I have not been able to get any ...


----------



## jeejack

And because I have little free time, today I will enjoy my 400 ohm drivers. 😉


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 8, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> I hope we find out one day.
> I could match pairs very well if I mix different colour marked.



I would match pairs.



rprodrigues said:


> You are not alone...





FranQL said:


> I have not been able to get any ...



Perhaps someone in austria or germany can help? (@earfanatic posted a link previously.)

There may still be some on taobao too.


----------



## eneilism

Hi! I'm new in diy earbuds. I just want to ask the following:

1. How does the housing help with the tuning? Metal vs wood? More vs less vent holes? Small vs large shell?
2. How does the tuning cotton help? Thicker vs thinner cotton.
3. What's the sound signature of the 600ohm beryllium, 500ohm, and 400 ohm drivers?
4. How does the foam cover help in sound quality? Donut vs full cover
5. Lastly, how long do you burn-in? Do you tune before or after burn in?

Thank you for anyone who would help.


----------



## earfanatic (Aug 10, 2021)

eneilism said:


> Hi! I'm new in diy earbuds. I just want to ask the following:
> 
> 1. How does the housing help with the tuning? Metal vs wood? More vs less vent holes? Small vs large shell?
> 2. How does the tuning cotton help? Thicker vs thinner cotton.
> ...


Yes, the _Ultimate Question_ of Life, the Universe, and Everything...
There are some readily available recipes for DIY earbuds, shared in these mighty pages if You are looking for those.
Here You will find many discussions about success and also failure.
If You are willing to learn, there is a good read about how the magic aroung the drivers work, I can recommend, it is very interesting:
A Glimpse Into the Secrets of Headphone Voicing
The same works mostly for earphones too, and this will give You a nice guide regarding many of Your questions.


----------



## re23071998

which drivers have good stage and separation?
will they beat some known prebuilt buds out there in those?


----------



## earfanatic (Aug 12, 2021)

re23071998 said:


> which drivers have good stage and separation?
> will they beat some known prebuilt buds out there in those?


Tell us what prebuilt buds have You tried already, so one can compare.
You know it is not like best car, best phone, best earbud.
It is about You like xxxx earbud, but missing sound stage a bit, or want a bit more comfort, bass, or treble.
If You are unsure, then buy any of the recommended ones and tell us how You like it.
Most of us prefer different shells because of different anatomy.

So it is important to decide:

What have You tried?
Was it comfortable, too big, too small?
What did You liked about it?
What didn't You liked about it?
What has more/less/wider/fun/ xxxxx than this?
Wha t do You listen, on what source? (portable, desktop, HP amp, phone?)
Also please note DIY is not like building a better Ferrari for cheap, it is like building something You like without breaking the bank.


----------



## furyossa

re23071998 said:


> which drivers have good stage and separation?
> will they beat some known prebuilt buds out there in those?


@earfanatic ask right questions. DIY buds can have better technicalities than prebuilt, but not always. When we buy these drivers, we don't know how good these samples are.
Some brands make your own drivers or order them directly from manufacturers and pick only the best samples. Also, you can tune low end, mids and treble. By balancing these 3 you can affect soundstage in some degree, but you need also good DAC and not smartphone or dongles. Imaging is something that you can't change.

Anyway... I'm in the chase of the drivers that have great stage and imaging last couple of years.
My 3D stage KINGs are:
- HE150 or HE150Pro (in MX500 shell)
- Tingo TG-38s
- HiFi Boy Dream (in MX500 shell)
As you can see, you need the right environment where drivers can perform in their full potential. MX500 shell has right design: size, vent system etc. which provide
optimal conditions. As for the fit and comfort, they are not perfect for everyone. Also, there are some examples where driver is tuned to work perfectly with some
specific shell. For example, 150ohm "red film" and DOCOMO shell (Nokia HDD-1) or Foster driver and DP100 shell (ShoonTH buds) etc.

As for the DIY drivers, there are some interesting models. I use mostly high impedance drivers. I will talk about them after you give the answers for @earfanatic Q's


----------



## re23071998

i see,
so i havent tried any earbuds.
but i like final e2000 tuning wise (slightly less or quicker bass is a welcome so that i could listen to stuff like architects).
would love to try to build somethin with such tuning but with better staging.
i listen to mostly these kinda music:

and metals like architects.
as for the source, i use a laptop with cx31993 dongle.


----------



## furyossa

re23071998 said:


> i see,
> so i havent tried any earbuds.
> but i like final e2000 tuning wise (slightly less or quicker bass is a welcome so that i could listen to stuff like architects).
> would love to try to build somethin with such tuning but with better staging.
> ...



ShoonTH ESEP-01BL has fast buss and wide stage (stock variant) and precise imaging
120ohm LCP driver has light bass and is also fast. 
IMO, LCP only have cleaner mids and highs in comparison with ShoonTH. 
All in all, both models are good


----------



## PapyKahan

furyossa said:


> ShoonTH ESEP-01BL has fast buss and wide stage (stock variant) and precise imaging
> 120ohm LCP driver has light bass and is also fast.
> IMO, LCP only have cleaner mids and highs in comparison with ShoonTH.
> All in all, both models are good


With 130Ohm LCP I clearly don't have same opinion. It has a good quantity of bass with superb definition. The sound stage is deep and averagely wide.

Strange that there is difference.


----------



## furyossa (Aug 13, 2021)

PapyKahan said:


> With 130Ohm LCP I clearly don't have same opinion. It has a good quantity of bass with superb definition. The sound stage is deep and averagely wide.
> 
> Strange that there is difference.


If you remove stock filter, you will feel the difference


----------



## earfanatic

Is anybody into cards lately?






For this build I had to make a large vent hole, for an experiment... more on that later.


----------



## rprodrigues

@earfanatic
Have you fallen in love?

What about that cable? Is it from Aliexpress?


----------



## earfanatic

rprodrigues said:


> @earfanatic
> Have you fallen in love?


You can say it like that. Look:



Red: PK-Hearts (I named it so dont look it up on Google)
Green: PK tr. film 150Ohm
Orange: Long-Docomo Tr. film 150Ohm

The cable is from Ali. I use these exclusively. I like the plug.


----------



## rprodrigues

earfanatic said:


> You can say it like that. Look:
> 
> Red: PK-Hearts (I named it so dont look it up on Google)
> Green: PK tr. film 150Ohm
> ...



Wow!

Would you mind sharing us all the tricks to get such a FR, including drivers and link for the cable?


----------



## earfanatic

rprodrigues said:


> Wow!
> 
> Would you mind sharing us all the tricks to get such a FR, including drivers and link for the cable?


The fr on my bench is not comparable to others, please note.
Don't worry, I don't post teasers to keep secrets. I will share the instructions after some preparation.


----------



## re23071998

furyossa said:


> ShoonTH ESEP-01BL has fast buss and wide stage (stock variant) and precise imaging
> 120ohm LCP driver has light bass and is also fast.
> IMO, LCP only have cleaner mids and highs in comparison with ShoonTH.
> All in all, both models are good


noted, thanks
are the shoonth drivers available as drivers-only?


----------



## jeejack

re23071998 said:


> noted, thanks
> are the shoonth drivers available as drivers-only?


High Resolution 15.4mm Speaker Unit for MX760 DIY Heavy Bass Earphones DIY 10pcs
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mry9ufv


----------



## earfanatic (Aug 15, 2021)

*Here I am sharing my experiment with the result that lead to PK Hearts.*
_To replicate this You will need a few more tools and parts.
Part list is on the bottom._





The story:
I have experimented with the shell I showed in this post. After the second attemt to finish those damn mmxc connectors on the cable, and two broken front cover, I found my eyes pop open when I heard the driver in that. I have tried all my shells with the 14.8mm titanium driver, until I have just found out this particular driver likes open back, with very little damping. I have measured the vent on the blue metal shell, it is 6mm in diameter. So, this was my target vent area.

The driver is called _"14.8mm 32 Ohm Speaker Unit Flat Earphones DIY Titanium Diaphragm Earbuds Drivers 116dB"_
Link: here. If the link stops working, then search for the title above.
The cover will not fit PK shells! It needs a modified original PK shell.
If You have read my post about the blue metal shell, You already know that You can use that without replacing the cover. Just don't try to remove it.
I turn back to the PK shell, as I will rather direct solder new cable anytime than make those damn mmcx connectors again.

So, back to the PK shell.
I measured the vent holes, and calculated the vent hole area.



You see, the original vent is not sufficient enough, not even close.
But I did not want to drill a 6mm hole on the back, that would have been look dumb.

I had to find shapes, and calculate the total area to match the 28 sqmm hole.
Here are some expamples.



I wanted to have something "final" not just messing with a shell. So I drawn shapes on the shell with a pencil.
I also needed to be able to measure the area, so I started with circles and squares (rectangles).
On the last two You see how the heart shape came together with aproximated area.
There are other shapes You can draw, of course, until You follow the vent area numbers.

I am interested in Your ideas, if You have drawing skills, and able to measure the drawing area as well.

The vent cover / damping is thin felt glued in, I used black and red to mimic playing cards.
The audition result is very impressive. I have always heard "unheard" potential in this driver, but until this could not make sound it this good.

@rprodrigues
The cable I use is available with bending jack only in black.
I have asked the store for other colours, but no other is available than black.

*These are the parts needed:*

2pcs PK shells
2pcs 14.8mm Titanium drivers
2pcs salvaged PK or Docomo front covers
light damping material
semi finished cable (or You make it)

You can buy these on Aliexpress on the links above.
These parts may not sold in 1pcs quantity, so the total BOM would be ~€36 +VAT excl. shipping at the moment if You do not already have parts.

*Tools I used:*

PCB drill or dremmel
Various drills and routing heads around 0.8-1mm
measuring caliper
pencil
calculator
craft glue for the felt

*final notes:*
The PK shell in this article needs the cable tunnel and bass ports to be drilled as well.
The bass port is not open on the end, You need to drill it open, and the cable tunnel depending on Your cable diameter.

It is a good DIY project. Have fun!


----------



## jeejack

Wonderful build! 👏


----------



## earfanatic

jeejack said:


> Wonderful build! 👏


Thank You!


----------



## rprodrigues

@earfanatic 

It's just amazing!

Thank you for sharing!!


----------



## earfanatic

To reveal what is behind the different colored dots on the various PK1 redfilm drivers I have I made a series of measurements.
Again, these are only comparable to the frequency response graphs on the same screenshot, and my test rig is not perfect.
These were the candidates:



I soldered these each after each on a long docomo shell, and run the test.
The one not shown is the transparent film (not red) version, because it was originally in the shell, so I added it before measured these.
Every driver including the transparent one was measured more than one time.

These are my results:


Well, because the fitting inperfections that I have with the test rig, and we also face in real life, I could consider these identical.
BUT wouldn't be fun without taking sides, would it?
Then I would say the  3. 4. and 5. had softer roll off than 1. and 2.
The PK1 transparent film 150 Ohm driver is quite different, and have more roll off.

My last graph ... i could not resist, is the PK1 transparent film (in long docomo shell) and the PK-Hearts.
These two are very much similar, with the PK-Hearts having well... superior bass extension and a little more spark.




That's it for now. I have settled with my two favourite, I think.


----------



## rprodrigues

@earfanatic 

It is impressive how linear is the low end. Congrats! 

Is the low end really that good?


----------



## FranQL

earfanatic said:


> *Here I am sharing my experiment with the result that lead to PK Hearts.*
> _To replicate this You will need a few more tools and parts.
> Part list is on the bottom._
> 
> ...



It has seemed like a great job, in fact the way to approach it to achieve the desired result is outstanding, in the graph I see that it is superior to transparent film in the low range, and this for me is exceptional, since it is a controller that I like much.

Thank you very much for sharing your work.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> @earfanatic
> 
> It is impressive how linear is the low end. Congrats!
> 
> Is the low end really that good?


On "red film" ...yes


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> On "red film" ...yes


Hehe, I would add this: considering the buds I removed them from were 20 years old - would You believe??-- its crazy.


----------



## earfanatic

rprodrigues said:


> @earfanatic
> 
> It is impressive how linear is the low end. Congrats!
> 
> Is the low end really that good?


I am smiling every time!


----------



## furyossa (Aug 17, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Hehe, I would add this: considering the buds I removed them from were 20 years old - would You believe??-- its crazy.


Find this song on Tidle or Spotify I try with "red film"
I test all my buds and "red film" over performed every single model, bass wise


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> @earfanatic
> 
> It is impressive how linear is the low end. Congrats!
> 
> Is the low end really that good?





FranQL said:


> It has seemed like a great job, in fact the way to approach it to achieve the desired result is outstanding, in the graph I see that it is superior to transparent film in the low range, and this for me is exceptional, since it is a controller that I like much.
> 
> Thank you very much for sharing your work.





furyossa said:


> On "red film" ...yes


Agreed.

It has the best sub-bass extension with the least bass roll off (almost none), of any driver that I have tried.

Here's my measurements when tuning, red was without mods to housing/foam/vent.


----------



## furyossa (Aug 17, 2021)

Hellboy buds  full build (buds + cable)
For this model I used 150ohm "blue glue" driver and silver plated cable
This driver is one of the top 3 DIY drivers from my collection


----------



## MelodyMood

One basic question. I have few earbuds and cpl of them are actually broken. Like Yincrow X6 Mic is no longer working, Monk Plus is almost broken and 3.5mm Plug is breaking and I can see the inner wires coming out too. One more earbud which I ordered looks very good and very good quality, but the sound is very poor. No Bass and the sound is ultra thin and harsh sounding and my old Apple iPod Nano earbuds sounds very good but it does not have Mic. I am thinking to actually replace cable of these earbuds but have no clue how easy it will be and what all tools I will require. 

Is there any Post somewhere which gives me very good idea how to do that and also the tools required for that? Appreciate if someone can pls suggest. Thanks.


----------



## furyossa

MelodyMood said:


> One basic question. I have few earbuds and cpl of them are actually broken. Like Yincrow X6 Mic is no longer working, Monk Plus is almost broken and 3.5mm Plug is breaking and I can see the inner wires coming out too. One more earbud which I ordered looks very good and very good quality, but the sound is very poor. No Bass and the sound is ultra thin and harsh sounding and my old Apple iPod Nano earbuds sounds very good but it does not have Mic. I am thinking to actually replace cable of these earbuds but have no clue how easy it will be and what all tools I will require.
> 
> Is there any Post somewhere which gives me very good idea how to do that and also the tools required for that? Appreciate if someone can pls suggest. Thanks.



On the same YT channel you can find more interesting stuffs


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Hellboy buds  full build (buds + cable)
> For this model I used 150ohm "blue glue" driver and silver plated cable
> This driver is one of the top 3 DIY drivers from my collection


It's a beast! Isn't the cable too stiff? Does it stay in thee ear easily?


----------



## furyossa (Aug 18, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> It's a beast! Isn't the cable too stiff? Does it stay in thee ear easily?


Cable is very flexible and soft because I use twisting method. Braiding solution can be stiff, but again, it's depends on actual wire that you use. 
Paracord alone, it's light and soft. I used 1m length, not 1.2-1.5m and if I need more I can always use extension cable.


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> Cable is very flexible and soft because I use twisting method. Braiding solution can be stiff, but again, it's depends on actual wire that you use.
> Paracord alone, it's light and soft. I used 1m length, not 1.2-1.5m and if I need more I can always use extension cable.


I am looking for paracord / fabric / textile cable, that looks like this:



I could take apart a cheap earphone but the jack is not even plated, and the cable itself looks very thin.
So far I haven't found it on Ali.


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> I am looking for paracord / fabric / textile cable, that looks like this:
> 
> I could take apart a cheap earphone but the jack is not even plated, and the cable itself looks very thin.
> So far I haven't found it on Ali.


You mean like this 






You can find beads and paracord locally. Also, you can look for shoelaces for sport sneakers.

BTW ... you are still not interested in my offer that I send you in PM last time?


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> You mean like this
> 
> 
> You can find beads and paracord locally. Also, you can look for shoelaces for sport sneakers.


Yes, it looks good. Did You make them? How hard is it to pull the cable trough? Does it have a special technic?


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> BTW ... you are still not interested in my offer that I send you in PM last time?


I will think about it.


----------



## furyossa

They are easy to make because you use only the half of the cable. Tricky part is to put paracord in the shell stem.
No, these are the ShoonTH buds https://penonaudio.com/ShoonTH
On thick paracord it not hard, but with thin one it's annoying and time-consuming
For ShoonTH buds, I don't know if they used paracord or snake skin (similar to shrink tube but more flexible)


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> I will think about it.


Believe me, it's easier to talk about this kind of stuff. Also, you know every dude there


----------



## MelodyMood

furyossa said:


> On the same YT channel you can find more interesting stuffs




Thanks  I appreciate your help. Wil look this video and see if I can do that. Hope the video has all the tools also mentioned which will be required for the task.


----------



## assassin10000

Well, crap. I was trying to prep my spare set of 150Ω red film drivers and found they were a bit overzealous with the glue on one. 






It peeled part of the red film on removal.


----------



## Rary (Aug 20, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> Well, crap. I was trying to prep my spare set of 150Ω red film drivers and found they were a bit overzealous with the glue on one.
> 
> 
> 
> It peeled part of the red film on removal.


I finally managed to buy a pair of Nokia HDD-1 and you show me this .
Any tips to prevent this from happening?

On a side note i also pulled the trigger on these new drivers: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003104504698.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.70c64c4dw2zZvM
There are no infos or reviews but i found this weird graph from another seller.





I usually expect lots of bass from a titanium composite driver but the graph suggests otherwise.
We'll see...


----------



## assassin10000

Rary said:


> I finally managed to buy a pair of Nokia HDD-1 and you show me this .
> Any tips to prevent this from happening?



Oh, I'm going beyond the normal build and was removing the drivers from the original covers.

If you are just popping the drivers & covers off to re-cable and/or tune them, you shouldn't have an issue.


----------



## earfanatic

assassin10000 said:


> Oh, I'm going beyond the normal build and was removing the drivers from the original covers.
> 
> If you are just popping the drivers & covers off to re-cable and/or tune them, you shouldn't have an issue.


I had bad luck too with removing covers, so last time when I wanted to remove an original I sacrificed it by cutting up the side to 2mm pieces and peeled it off.
It is better than a broken driver.


----------



## earfanatic

Rary said:


> On a side note i also pulled the trigger on these new drivers: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003104504698.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.70c64c4dw2zZvM
> There are no infos or reviews but i found this weird graph from another seller.
> 
> 
> ...


Why did You choose that if You feel the graph is weird?
Titaniums have better treble extension than the fibre/wool variant, but the diaphragm material is thick, heavy. So Yes, I would also expect it to have more low end. Also a tuning foam is goint to help on the back of the driver. But that dip at 7k-8k seems big. Lets see how it goes when You build it!


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 21, 2021)

Well fortunately I still had 1 extra red film driver from another pair which got damaged.




MMCX converted the K's LB shells and put my pair of 150Ω red film drivers in them.









If I hadn't had that one last red film driver, these would have gotten the 32Ω Ti drivers which also have very good sub-bass extension.


----------



## assassin10000

earfanatic said:


> I had bad luck too with removing covers, so last time when I wanted to remove an original I sacrificed it by cutting up the side to 2mm pieces and peeled it off.
> It is better than a broken driver.


I went around the outside rim and cut the glue free of the driver. Just bad luck some was between the face of the cover and on the diaphragm. Even if I had cut the side I would have had a problem.


----------



## Cynical L

Does anyone have some tips on opening up glued mx500 shells for the purpose of recabling? The cable of my faaeal iris 2.0 frayed and snapped above the inline mic and I need to replace it but unlike other mx500 buds I have the faaeal cannot be easily opened I assume this is due to glue. (The other buds I have are vidos and a traceless, which I also plan on re-cabling because their cables have become stiff and I would use an inline mic).

Also is there a recommended newbs guide to recabling mx500 buds? I have done some rudimentary soldering, swapping dead capacitors but nothing advanced. Is there anything in particular to watch out for when soldering the replacement cable onto the drivers? 

After reading through a bit of this topic I am also intrigued about putting a red dot 19-21 driver which many have recommended in an old broken
(coil snapped) vido shell. Will that shell have appropriate foam or should I order some separate tuning horseshoe foam for that driver?


----------



## earfanatic

Cynical L said:


> Does anyone have some tips on opening up glued mx500 shells for the purpose of recabling? The cable of my faaeal iris 2.0 frayed and snapped above the inline mic and I need to replace it but unlike other mx500 buds I have the faaeal cannot be easily opened I assume this is due to glue. (The other buds I have are vidos and a traceless, which I also plan on re-cabling because their cables have become stiff and I would use an inline mic).
> 
> Also is there a recommended newbs guide to recabling mx500 buds? I have done some rudimentary soldering, swapping dead capacitors but nothing advanced. Is there anything in particular to watch out for when soldering the replacement cable onto the drivers?
> 
> ...


Try heating it, the glue may get more flexible.
Then this is my preferred tool. It can be found in kitchen drawers, bars and pubs:




This is how to use it on buds:








The firs tool is best for PK shells but it depends how it grabs the cover.


----------



## furyossa

earfanatic said:


> Try heating it, the glue may get more flexible.
> Then this is my preferred tool. It can be found in kitchen drawers, bars and pubs:
> 
> 
> ...


  This is great topic. Can you make some "analysis" (you know where )


----------



## richardstring

assassin10000 said:


> Well fortunately I still had 1 extra red film driver from another pair which got damaged.
> 
> 
> MMCX converted the K's LB shells and put my pair of 150Ω red film drivers in them.
> ...


Hi there,
How's the red film on LB shells sound sig compared to pks?


----------



## jeejack

Cynical L said:


> Does anyone have some tips on opening up glued mx500 shells for the purpose of recabling? The cable of my faaeal iris 2.0 frayed and snapped above the inline mic and I need to replace it but unlike other mx500 buds I have the faaeal cannot be easily opened I assume this is due to glue. (The other buds I have are vidos and a traceless, which I also plan on re-cabling because their cables have become stiff and I would use an inline mic).
> 
> Also is there a recommended newbs guide to recabling mx500 buds? I have done some rudimentary soldering, swapping dead capacitors but nothing advanced. Is there anything in particular to watch out for when soldering the replacement cable onto the drivers?
> 
> ...


I don't like the Vido shell. I do not recommend putting any driver in it. I even tried 19 21 red dot. I mean the red shell, I don't know the rest.


----------



## Rary (Aug 22, 2021)

earfanatic said:


> Why did You choose that if You feel the graph is weird?


I usually really like the sound of titanium coated drivers and i had to spend 6$ more to use a coupon, so.... 

Next purchase will probably be a high impedance driver if i can resist buying the zen lite next week.


----------



## assassin10000

richardstring said:


> Hi there,
> How's the red film on LB shells sound sig compared to pks?


Dunno, don't have them in unmodified PK shells. And they're probably tuned different than a PK1 most likely.

I tune to my preference which is similar to DF neutral when graphed. Which is less warm than typically found in earbuds.


----------



## richardstring

assassin10000 said:


> Dunno, don't have them in unmodified PK shells. And they're probably tuned different than a PK1 most likely.
> 
> I tune to my preference which is similar to DF neutral when graphed. Which is less warm than typically found in earbuds.


Thanks men 👍👍


----------



## earfanatic

Rary said:


> I usually really like the sound of titanium coated drivers and i had to spend 6$ more to use a coupon, so....
> 
> Next purchase will probably be a high impedance driver if i can resist buying the zen lite next week.


So, then tell us how you like it when it arrives.


----------



## Rary

earfanatic said:


> So, then tell us how you like it when it arrives.


Absolutely! But it will take a while. I'm still waiting for stuff ordered at the end of june.



Spoiler: :^)







While we wait i have some big boys coming soon.
I currently have 4 (maybe 5) really interesting projects in the making. I just need to wait for all the parts to arrive.
No more spoilers tho.


----------



## re23071998

is there 3d model of mx500 housing that we could print out? wouldnt that be cool


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 26, 2021)

Blue is LBBS, Red is 150Ω.




Gray is MMCX PK shell, Red is K's shell.


----------



## earfanatic

assassin10000 said:


>


Red is the red, right?
I wander on the lower end. The PK shell should be more different than a bell shaped shell, at least I would expect that.


----------



## assassin10000

earfanatic said:


> Red is the red, right?
> I wander on the lower end. The PK shell should be more different than a bell shaped shell, at least I would expect that.


Whoops... forgot the legend.

Top: Blue is LBBS, Red is 150Ω.
Bottom: Gray is PK shell, Red is K's shell.


----------



## Rary (Aug 26, 2021)

Today i received a pair of used Nokia HDD-1 and they look BRAND NEW!





I don't have any 2.5mm source so i had to test them with this improvised cable (i know it's ugly but it works).





Apparently the 2.5mm jack isn't standard since i could only get sound when i touched these 2 points and only in stereo????
Probably the clip/mic thing has something to do with it. The cable is also extra thin.





First impressions aren't exactly good. The sound si dull and muffled.
I hope to get some kind of improvement with a new cable.


----------



## furyossa (Aug 26, 2021)

Rary said:


> Today i received a pair of used Nokia HDD-1 and they look BRAND NEW!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm playing right now with it  Received HDD-1 and few more Nokia's today


----------



## Rary

I'm still figuring out how to insert the cable, the cable relief is extra tight.
This is how it looks inside:


----------



## earfanatic

Rary said:


> First impressions aren't exactly good. The sound si dull and muffled.
> I hope to get some kind of improvement with a new cable.


If You measure the line resistance with a multimeter, it is 75Ohm, not 150. I believe the left and righ speaker is connected parallel.
So Nokia phones do not have to drive 150 Ohm, they see 75 Ohm. If it is the case, then it is not stereo. It says "dual headset" on the package too.


----------



## Rary

earfanatic said:


> If You measure the line resistance with a multimeter, it is 75Ohm, not 150. I believe the left and righ speaker is connected parallel.
> So Nokia phones do not have to drive 150 Ohm, they see 75 Ohm. If it is the case, then it is not stereo. It says "dual headset" on the package too.


I was wondering how they managed to properly drive 150ohm earbuds from 2000s phones. That's both smart and interesting.
Has anyone tried to open the clip that comes with the cable?


----------



## earfanatic (Aug 28, 2021)

Rary said:


> Has anyone tried to open the clip that comes with the cable?


Not yet, but I have saved them if I can make something with them. It is so  _ridiculously_ big!


----------



## re23071998

has anyone tried these?

https://shopee.ph/DIY-15.4mm-dual-d...t-HiFi-earphone-earbuds-i.43253829.4946047089


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 31, 2021)

@re23071998 

Check it here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-14768728


----------



## 232tomas232 (Aug 31, 2021)

Hello everyone, comrades I have cases from kbear stellar, what drivers can I choose (with aliexpress) for them? not expensive, about 20 dollars)


----------



## rprodrigues (Aug 31, 2021)

232tomas232 said:


> Hello everyone, comrades I have cases from kbear stellar, what drivers can I choose (with aliexpress) for them? not expensive, about 20 dollars)



These are good ones (shells included for all):
- https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000879243380.html - 150 Ohm
- https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000868075893.html - 32 Ohm
- https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000177042681.html - 64 Ohm
- https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001133273395.html - 32 Ohm, 5 pairs, without shells

This pair is slightly above the amount given, but it is praised here (shells also included):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000774951516.html - 400 Ohm

*Note:* You may need a good amp if you go beyond 32 Ohm.


----------



## re23071998

rprodrigues said:


> @re23071998
> 
> Check it here:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-14768728


ohh, cool


----------



## PapyKahan

Today I took the decision to reshell my beloved 130Ohm LCP driver without MMCX.

The cable is a Toneking one and I'll put my drivers into a Gray MX500 shell.

First this shell is not like standard ones. The cable hole is tighter.
Second the cavity is a little bit more spacious.
Don't really know what will be the result, but let's go !

Any advices for this shell type ?

I mainly want to use it because of color matching with this nice looking cable.


----------



## furyossa

PapyKahan said:


> Today I took the decision to reshell my beloved 130Ohm LCP driver without MMCX.
> 
> The cable is a Toneking one and I'll put my drivers into a Gray MX500 shell.
> 
> ...


That shell is the classic white shell painted in silver. Tingo silver shells are better option and classic black shells. That cable is a bit thick for stem cable hole.
If it seals the hole completely, you will lose a bit of bass. If air can pass through just a bit, mid-bass will be tamed and sub-bass will be more noticeable


----------



## PapyKahan

furyossa said:


> That shell is the classic white shell painted in silver. Tingo silver shells are better option and classic black shells. That cable is a bit thick for stem cable hole.
> If it seals the hole completely, you will lose a bit of bass. If air can pass through just a bit, mid-bass will be tamed and sub-bass will be more noticeable


I've already expected that so I've drilled cable hole with a 2.5mm drill bit. The cable itself is 2mm.


----------



## furyossa

PapyKahan said:


> I've already expected that so I've drilled cable hole with a 2.5mm drill bit. The cable itself is 2mm.


See this, you can leave the hole to have 2mm diameter (same as cable). Air still can pass brought.
Red line represents air


----------



## 232tomas232

I got nokia hds-3 for $ 1.5. are there good drivers? Is the sound good from a simple replacement of the cable or is it just a rare driver?


----------



## jeejack

232tomas232 said:


> I got nokia hds-3 for $ 1.5. are there good drivers? Is the sound good from a simple replacement of the cable or is it just a rare driver?


It's not rare and is very good driver. I put it in MX500 shell


----------



## 232tomas232 (Sep 2, 2021)

Does


----------



## 232tomas232

jeejack said:


> It's not rare and is very good driver. I put it in MX500 shell


Does replacing the case affect the sound quality?  or more for the sake of convenience.  Which cable is better to use with aliexpress?


----------



## earfanatic

furyossa said:


> See this, you can leave the hole to have 2mm diameter (same as cable). Air still can pass brought.
> Red line represents air


Nice illustration. We can also see twisting the tunnel also longer the pipe air passes trough. But does it change the sound?
In standard definition that changes the tuning frequency of the port.


----------



## Cynical L

I got a of M0 shells with a faulty connector(which are being replaced by the seller no sweat) but I want to try and salvage them by cutting off the connector and soldering in some DIY drivers. 15.4mm drivers have been suggested to me by furyossa but after some research it appears 15.4mm DIY drivers are the standard for mx500 shells? I measured the m0 shells (pics below) and it is significantly smaller than a mx500, with smabat's 15.4mm drivers needing a large lip to fit the smaller shell. Measurements are a bit tricky because the shells use a compressible o-ring to secure the drivers with the measured value depending on how much force I applied. So I measured sambat's drivers(which I can't plug in) and got a value of 13mm on the inside as shown in the picture.



Spoiler: m0 shell & driver measurement pics

















Does anyone know what form factor of DIY drivers(if any) will fit these shells? 

I think only other hope would be maybe bypassing the female connector soldered onto one of the drivers sold by smabat?


----------



## TheLastAurora

Hey, so I just got this shell from NSC and the composite Beryllium driver. But what is this connection? How to use mmcx with this?


----------



## assassin10000

Cynical L said:


> I got a of M0 shells with a faulty connector(which are being replaced by the seller no sweat) but I want to try and salvage them by cutting off the connector and soldering in some DIY drivers. 15.4mm drivers have been suggested to me by furyossa but after some research it appears 15.4mm DIY drivers are the standard for mx500 shells? I measured the m0 shells (pics below) and it is significantly smaller than a mx500, with smabat's 15.4mm drivers needing a large lip to fit the smaller shell. Measurements are a bit tricky because the shells use a compressible o-ring to secure the drivers with the measured value depending on how much force I applied. So I measured sambat's drivers(which I can't plug in) and got a value of 13mm on the inside as shown in the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The driver needs to be detached from the ring. The driver & cover is probably 15.4mm, where as the ring that snaps into the cover is 13mm I.D.

You can see the smooth black metal or plastic adapter ring in your photo where you measure the 13mm.




TheLastAurora said:


> Hey, so I just got this shell from NSC and the composite Beryllium driver. But what is this connection? How to use mmcx with this?



Looks like its there but in upside down. Pop the gold looking piece out, that is the MMCX connector.


----------



## TheLastAurora

assassin10000 said:


> The driver needs to be detached from the ring. The driver & cover is probably 15.4mm, where as the ring that snaps into the cover is 13mm I.D.
> 
> You can see the smooth black metal or plastic adapter ring in your photo where you measure the 13mm.
> 
> ...


Doesn't seem so... Maybe they sent me the wrong version?


----------



## assassin10000

TheLastAurora said:


> Doesn't seem so... Maybe they sent me the wrong version?


That's both sides clipped together.


----------



## TheLastAurora

assassin10000 said:


> That's both sides clipped together.


Lmao, yes, thank you! They were so tight that I though that you couldn't remove that, but yeah.


----------



## furyossa

TheLastAurora said:


> Lmao, yes, thank you! They were so tight that I though that you couldn't remove that, but yeah.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001611157987.html


----------



## TheLastAurora (Sep 3, 2021)

Just wow! The composite BE driver and the metal shell from NSC. I tried stock with no tuning at all but there was too much bass bleeding to mids and too much bass. Tried foam and terrible stage and no bass and texture. But microporous tape does magic. The bass now is punch and very present (bassheads will like it), has a nice texture, the mids have body, and the highs are laid back. I really much like it. Has a nice touch of warmth to it. I would say this set is L shaped.  Would pick 100x times these over the 130 LCP. Wil order more.


----------



## re23071998

TheLastAurora said:


> Just wow! The composite BE driver and the metal shell from NSC. I tried stock with no tuning at all but there was too much bass bleeding to mids and too much bass. Tried foam and terrible stage and no bass and texture. But microporous tape does magic. The bass now is punch and very present (bassheads will like it), has a nice texture, the mids have body, and the highs are laid back. I really much like it. Has a nice touch of warmth to it. I would say this set is L shaped.  Would pick 100x times these over the 130 LCP. Wil order more.


great build!
which drivers are these?
also wdym by microporous tape?


----------



## TheLastAurora (Sep 3, 2021)

re23071998 said:


> great build!
> which drivers are these?
> also wdym by microporous tape?


https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKuPqH5
Micropore or microporous tape. I've used tons of times with IEMs before, but works flawlessly to reduce bass duration and quantity without changing the highs response by much.


----------



## re23071998

TheLastAurora said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKuPqH5
> Micropore or microporous tape. I've used tons of times with IEMs before, but works flawlessly to reduce bass duration and quantity without changing the highs response by much.


how did you put that in? just tape it behind the drivers?


----------



## jeejack

re23071998 said:


> how did you put that in? just tape it behind the drivers?


I used this in which I made a few holes with a needle


----------



## TheLastAurora (Sep 4, 2021)

re23071998 said:


> how did you put that in? just tape it behind the drivers?


As @jeejack has shown


----------



## re23071998 (Sep 6, 2021)

jeejack said:


> High Resolution 15.4mm Speaker Unit for MX760 DIY Heavy Bass Earphones DIY 10pcs
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mry9ufv


these drivers just came in and they dont fit my jcally housing, sadly :v

currently still with the 130 berry, quite bassy drivers on this housing


----------



## jeejack

re23071998 said:


> these drivers just came in and they dont fit my jcally housing, sadly :v
> 
> currently still with the 130 berry, quite bassy drivers on this housing


For 130 bery drivers i use silver MX500 shell (Tingo TC 200). For MX760 drivers you can use also MX500 shell


----------



## re23071998

jeejack said:


> For 130 bery drivers i use silver MX500 shell (Tingo TC 200). For MX760 drivers you can use also MX500 shell


hmm, mine do not seem to fit with mx500 shell


----------



## furyossa

re23071998 said:


> hmm, mine do not seem to fit with mx500 shell


Sand the "lip" of the shell




also, if the shell not have any cut, add one at the top or bottom and orient voice coil hole of the driver where this cut is


----------



## jeejack (Sep 6, 2021)

re23071998 said:


> hmm, mine do not seem to fit with mx500 shell


Or use glue


----------



## 232tomas232

Hello everyone, hds-3 arrived, I connected a resistance of about 32 ohms with a cable from kbear stellar in my own buildings.  the sound is interesting.  I will listen.  Tell me if the replacement of the housings (kbear stellar) will make a difference in sound?  how to damp them correctly?


----------



## jeejack

It's better in the classic MX500 shell. I have it in both shells. I will give up those in the transparent Stellar shell. Btw I also changed faceplates


----------



## 232tomas232

jeejack said:


> Лучше в классической оболочке MX500. Он у меня в обеих оболочках. Я откажусь от тех, что в прозрачной оболочке Stellar. Кстати я тоже поменял лицевые панели


but how to remove the speaker from the front protective panel?  tried to insert with the old panel into the case from stellar, the magnet is too wide.  while in old buildings, the native damper, paralon, died, I replaced it with half a cotton swab


----------



## earfanatic

232tomas232 said:


> but how to remove the speaker from the front protective panel?  tried to insert with the old panel into the case from stellar, the magnet is too wide.  while in old buildings, the native damper, paralon, died, I replaced it with half a cotton swab


Removing a speaker from the faceplate is always risky.
If You do not need the faceplate anymore, then it is better to cut it into pieces, and remove it that way.


----------



## re23071998

indeed i broke my mx760 driver :v


----------



## jeejack (Sep 8, 2021)

re23071998 said:


> indeed i broke my mx760 driver :v


Why did you want to change faceplates on MX760 drivers?
You had to follow my advice or fury's


----------



## re23071998 (Sep 8, 2021)

jeejack said:


> Why did you want to change faceplates on MX760 drivers?
> You had to follow my advice or fury's


solder touched the faceplate a bit when i was soldering the driver :v
might buy another pair.
or tg-38s


----------



## jeejack

re23071998 said:


> solder touched the faceplate a bit when i was soldering the driver :v
> might buy another pair.
> or tg-38s


@furyossa know better TG-38s. MX760 drivers sound very good in MX500 shell


----------



## TheLastAurora (Sep 8, 2021)

Taobao seems to have a lot of very interesting drivers, but never ordered from there. Is it worth? It's way cheaper and we get more options than ali. Btw, whats the difference between the PKs? And whats Fengda or Fengru? I'm kinda new to this stuff. Also, what is 3H, 4H etc?


----------



## furyossa

re23071998 said:


> solder touched the faceplate a bit when i was soldering the driver :v
> might buy another pair.
> or tg-38s


If you like big soundstage TG-38s is great choice. More about it https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16445306


----------



## iQEM (Sep 11, 2021)

vapman said:


> Well after a day and night full of Halloween partying I thought, what was a better way to end my night (morning) than finally recable my Sony HPM-62?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lol i thought i was the only one recable this HPM62 for general use/portable..
i found this HPM62 from the drawer, it seems came from Soner K750i that belong to my wife long time ago..
but vary from yours, mine are quite warm, very forward vocal with lots of midbass, great details and good high..if it seats just right on your ear, it sound huge..like stereo speaker..
which is are okay, even a lil bit too warm for my taste..so i have to mod them a lil to tame down the over dominant warm+midbass..
i think its becos the cable that i’m using which is a cable from Vido with mic..
yes, i use this HPM62 for gaming and calls..quite good for mobile gaming..
oh, and i use donut foam cos wearing without foam make this HPM62 easily fall off from my ears..yes, i know its add more bass becos added more seal to the ears..

i even have use KZ HD9 cable before, but its too warm from this Vido +mic that i use right now...


----------



## melodia (Sep 12, 2021)

I want to create an earbud with sound as close as it can be to the yincrow x6.
What drivers should i use?
There are these in AliExpress that say the are  vido drivers.
For shells i guess some standard mx500 will be fine?

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/40002...f720041eb9fa2c923d9584faf2.jpg_640x640Q90.jpg


----------



## assassin10000

melodia said:


> I want to create an earbud with sound as close as it can be to the yincrow x6.
> What drivers should i use?
> There are these in AliExpress that say the are  vido drivers.
> For shells i guess some standard mx500 will be fine?
> ...



Any particular reason why? I'd probably just buy an x6, they're not too pricey IIRC. Or do you just want to experiment?

Do you just want a better cable or connector? Buy an X6 and mod it, would be my recommendation.


----------



## melodia

assassin10000 said:


> Any particular reason why? I'd probably just buy an x6, they're not too pricey IIRC. Or do you just want to experiment?
> 
> Do you just want a better cable or connector? Buy an X6 and mod it, would be my recommendation.



Of course you are right.
I already bought it more than once.
I want to make a few pieces of my own custom earbuds to give them and i love the sound of the X6, so i want to make it sound similar.
I am just wondering if the most important is the driver, or something else in tuning.
I 'll have to experiment nevertheless


----------



## re23071998 (Sep 18, 2021)

anyone tried stacking white tuning cotton?
i just tried double y5 and its great for reducing bass.

edit: nvm, i forgot to turn off my EQ  🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️


----------



## DBaldock9

re23071998 said:


> anyone tried stacking white tuning cotton?
> i just tried double y5 and its great for reducing bass.
> 
> edit: nvm, i forgot to turn off my EQ  🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️



Sort of reminds me of a few years ago, when I was first testing some earbuds.
At that time, an iFi Micro iDSD was my only earphone amp, and I was also using the pre-amp output to drive some PreSonus Eris 4.5 Powered Studio Monitors on my desk, and a Polk PSW110 Powered Subwoofer under the desk.
When I connected the earbuds, I switched off the monitors, but forgot to switch off the subwoofer.  
My first impression was that the earbuds had amazing Bass!  
And, then I noticed that the subwoofer was still on...


----------



## Rary (Sep 21, 2021)

Today i tried to fix the Kbear stellar.
My pair had really bad channel imbalance and tonality. The quality control on these is abysmal, Vidos cost less than half the money and they have better build quality and components (and they sound much better).

I used a bottle opener to pop off the drivers. They didn't use glue so it was a fast and easy process, you can see the drivers in the photo below.





At first i suspected the channel imbalance was caused by the misplaced drivers (in one shell the driver was placed almost in the center, in the other it was placed directly above the left vents) but it was much worse than i thought. One of the shells had the faux vents glued, the other free.




I tried to drill the glue but to make sure i won't get any more channel imbalance i opted for gluing both sides. I also drilled the bass port open (1mm hole).




I then tried to change tuning foam and i discovered they used 2 layers of white tuning paper... At least they tried to (badly) tune them?




I added 2 pieces of black thick foam on the shell and a ball of cotton wool in the back. On the drivers i left only 1 layer of What. I also tried to paint the shells but it didn't end up looking too nice.






Now it's more balanced, bass is reduced and highs are less fatiguing. I think i also improved clarity. Overall, i got a good beater pair, perfect for general purpose.
The tuning can still be improved a lot but i think that it isn't really worth going any further.

_*Update 22/09/2021*_
I removed the last filter on the drivers and i replaced the cotton wool with a piece of paper duct tape in the back. NOW they are sounding good, try this if you have a pair laying around.


----------



## Cynical L (Sep 20, 2021)

Does anyone have some advice on how to close the n50 red rim diy drivers? I have soldered in the cable but am having trouble popping the drivers onto the mx500 shells. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33027995148.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dTRO7Tk


----------



## chavez

You need to sand the lip of the shells lightly. You can force it on the shell but you are not going to remove it after that. @furyossa will give you the pictures of how it should be done.


----------



## furyossa

Cynical L said:


> Does anyone have some advice on how to close the n50 red rim diy drivers? I have soldered in the cable but am having trouble popping the drivers onto the mx500 shells.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33027995148.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dTRO7Tk


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-16546375


----------



## Themilkman46290

Been busy with my m565c and he4xx modding, about to mod some grados and possibly e-mu purple hearts

Was wondering how good your guys mods are going? Anything exciting in the diy buds? Any new driver beating the 500ohm,400ohm, 130, 64ohm ti composite or the 19-21?


----------



## Rary

Themilkman46290 said:


> Been busy with my m565c and he4xx modding, about to mod some grados and possibly e-mu purple hearts
> 
> Was wondering how good your guys mods are going? Anything exciting in the diy buds? Any new driver beating the 500ohm,400ohm, 130, 64ohm ti composite or the 19-21?



I'm currently experimenting with rivets, nothing that wasn't already done before but so far i think i managed to get some great sounding earbuds.

64ohm Ti (blue dots), currently my favorite pair:




I also tested inverted rivets and i personally like how it came out, the sound is weird but still very enjoyable.

32ohm Ti Composite aka "Shrek":




I will eventually try copper/brass tubes but i don't currently have the right equipment to properly bend them.
Some new expensive carbon/lcp/beryllium 300ohm drivers popped up last week but they sold out immediately, so nothing really new for now.


----------



## Themilkman46290 (Sep 20, 2021)

300ohm berry's sound pretty interesting, thanks, will see if I can find out more

I played with hearing aid sound tubes with success, I too thought about copper tubes but didn't want to invest in the tools


----------



## assassin10000

Converted my old LBB cable I had laying around and my newer White LBBS SPC cable to MMCX. The LBB was sold after MMCX modding it a while ago.

Now I have matching K's MMCX cables for my modded LBBS.





I also added a chin cinch to both, which will be nice.


----------



## assassin10000

assassin10000 said:


> So my latest mod is also an improvement in fit, on the already great fitting K's bell shell. MMCX converted my old LB cable for the LBBS I already MMCX converted.
> 
> Wearing them down is way more stable now that there is something that sits in the inter-tragic notch. That and adding a chin cinch.


----------



## melodia

What you think is the best way to print a logo on a standard mx500 shell?
Has anyone tried it?


----------



## earfanatic

melodia said:


> What you think is the best way to print a logo on a standard mx500 shell?
> Has anyone tried it?


I haven't tried it, but You can buy stamps with any logo. They laser etch a rubber sheet for those. Using that rubber sheet and a proper paint would be my best bet.


----------



## TheLastAurora (Oct 15, 2021)

*Fantasy:* a short review on 68 graphene drivers

_Sound signature preference:_ midcentric with bass boost.
_Genres:_ Mostly Bossa Nova, Jazz, J-Pop, Acoustic, Prog. Rock, Classical Music and a little bit of everything.

_SS:_ Slightly W-shaped, with midbass being a little recessed and treble being the star of the show.

*BASS*: I use an Urbanfun YBF as my daily driver, so note that this might bias my opinion,since they are truly bass canons. Now, as you would expect from a graphene driver, not the best bass out there but, you can truly enjoy Heavy-bass tracks, suck as Lo-Fi and Flea's bass lines. Not recessed, you can hear it clearly, but lacks depth IMO. Can't compare to beryllium in this department, but i'd say that its coherent and there are no major problems here. Not as much texture as the mids and the treble but it exists and its good in its own way.

*8.9/10

MIDS*: The part of music I most care for. Hard to describre this one hahaha. As I said, the midbass is slightly recessed and the treble accentuated, which results in very airy mids, with excellent instrument separation and clarity. As a vocal lover, I like them intimate, but you don't get it here (all the time).You actually get a surprising realistic distance between your ears and the voices and almost-intimate vocals when they are required, in João Gilberto songs in which the vocal play a big part, they sound close enough. But there's a problem  here (or not, depending on your taste) they are not smooth. They are crude, I even would say harsh and wrong depending on the singer. Nothing killer, but if you like buttery smooth sound as I do, skip these. Guitars and pianos sound very coherent with great and unfatiging solos.

*9.2/10

TREBLE*: The star of the show! For anyone that really like Hi hats, cymbals and such these are a must! Now, this is very highlighted in the songs, so that can turn a little fating if you plan to use them for long sessions. The texture and timbre tho are absolutely god tier. They are in the edge to sound aggressive, they almost get there, very close actually, if you listen in really high volume but to me, its fine as long you don't use them for 3-4 hours straight. The song that I most like to test this aspect is Everybody loves the Sunshine by Takuya Kuroda. If the treble is too aggressive and forward, you can't finish the song. This tho, can play it very well. not being fating at all, which is quite a surprise to me. Violins sound SO good, really great.

*10/10*

I indicate these for:

=> Everyone that loves the drums and percussion instruments. Seriously highlighted here and it has quality in every aspect of it.
=> Trebleheads
=> Anyone that want an endgame and a great all rounder

I can't indicate for anyone that:

=> Wants buttery smooth sound
=> Have bright sources

Edit:. Same tuning I did with Bery 32 ohms.


----------



## ValSuki

assassin10000 said:


>


Im actually impressed by this! Looks very clean and well done. Ive been trying to diy some earbuds myself lately but I hope to get to that level soon lol.


----------



## BotByte (Oct 13, 2021)

Hey ya'll! Been loving going through this rabbit hole and being going quite crazy in the process. Thank you ya'll crazies in here for your insight and advice, especially @furyossa, @Rary, @Themilkman46290, @assassin10000, @earfanatic. Ya'll made me login back into this damn old account! 

*Could I ask for driver recommendations? To keep my sanity? *

Info:

Coming from Yincrow X6 and looking for something better and also different.

*Music genres*: Mainly Rock, Electronic, Hip-hop, but everything else too.

*Sound preference*: I prefer a more balanced sound leaning on more bassy. I always need a touch of bass in my headphones to bring an "arena" sound, but do love me my warm mids for male vocals and just a touch of sparkle in the highs. I'm not shy to treble and don't get sensitive easily in the upper range, but do like a touch of bass to ground things--emphasis on this as I know many earbuds don't throw a lot of bass.

Yincrow X6 gives me that bass. Enough for electronic and hip-hop, but I'd like more sub-bass for those genres and more control. But they lack the upper sparkle I want for rock and acoustic stuff. I've got two pairs; one with full foams, one with wide donuts that barely lets me enjoy the upper-end.

*Ideally, I'd like a few earbuds. One as a bassy set, one as a neutral/reference set, and one for some higher stuff.* I like to pick headphones for whatever I listen to. But this can be a progression into madness, first step is bassy/fun/balanced, next is neutral with a touch of bass.

I'd also like to explore shells. MX500s are fine for me, but I have smaller ears so maybe PK or Docomo shells would fit better as I don't get a great seal. For example, double foam MX500s like to pop out of my ears, single foam are fine but a bit squeezed. I'd like to try all three.

From my exhausting research:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/page-247#post-16428936
@furyossa's titanium tuning looks great for a bassy set. I know the above uses the full "blue dot" titanium driver which is harder to tune, so I think I'll get the composite titanium driver first then the full (which is cheaper anyways).

Any thoughts on grabbing a HDD-1 red-film and cable swapping that? Not a lot of info on how the old drivers sound as a whole. Not sure what sound sig they have. 

Same with that, I don't know about the PK2 drivers in the scrapped Docomo bodies on Chitty.  Might be fun for the shells, and they only require a recable.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/page-258#post-16507474
@earfanatic's PK-hearts look phenomenal, and maybe a neutral/balanced signature? I wonder if I can use these shells and covers to reduce the price of the shells https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000298847825.html

For mid and high focused... I'm not too sure. I think @Themilkman46290 recommended 15.4mm 68ohm graphene drivers for that. There's also the TG-38S which might be a nice difference.

Any help, guidance, and advice would be absolutely amazing.


----------



## Rary (Oct 14, 2021)

BotByte said:


> Hey ya'll! Been loving going through this rabbit hole and being going quite crazy in the process. Thank you ya'll crazies in here for your insight and advice, especially @furyossa, @Rary, @Themilkman46290, @assassin10000, @earfanatic. Ya'll made me login back into this damn old account!
> 
> *Could I ask for driver recommendations? To keep my sanity? *
> 
> ...


Hi, welcome to the crazy world of DIY Earbuds 

As a first diy build i would recommend trying the DIY EMX500 drivers, they are cheap and in stock MX500+medium horse shoe the sound is pretty good, the bass is punchy and there is a good amount of sparkle. I consider them to be a small upgrade over Vido/X6.

If you are interested in testing rivets i suggest trying to follow my guide (you can find it here, line 60) .
It's easier than Furyossa's mod and if you like bass the sound is phenomenal 

For a fun V shape, 64ohm full Ti is a must have, in rivet mod of course.
For a more balanced sound and above average SQ the 150ohm Blue Glue is great.

I don't have much experience with smaller drivers but i suggest skipping the HDD-1 for now. It's really hard to recable and you are not guaranteed to get a genuine or working pair. If you can find it for cheap (<10€) it might be worth a try but beware of fakes.


----------



## BotByte (Oct 13, 2021)

Rary said:


> Hi, welcome to the crazy world of DIY Earbuds
> 
> As a first diy build i would recommend trying the DIY EMX500 drivers, they are cheap and in stock MX500+medium horse shoe the sound is pretty good, the bass is punchy and there is a good amount of sparkle. I consider them to be a small upgrade over Vido/X6.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the warm welcome!  

The EMX500 drivers sound great, but maybe down the road.  I don't have anything else to buy from that store and shipping is slow. Drivers + faster shipping outweighs the cost of the drivers versus other "better" drivers with faster shipping. How about black dot 19-21s? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html

Oh! I've seen your spreadsheet, but didn't know you had a guide! Hell yes!  I'll totally do that with the full Ti drivers.

Should I bother with the composite 64ohm Ti drivers? If I get my kicks with the full Ti with mods, the higher priced composite Ti doesn't sound as appealing. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000177042681.html

The blue-glue drivers were also on my radar, but with your sound impressions and @furyossa's mention of it being in his top three, it's going be bought.

Yeah, scouring for old drivers and shells kinda sound a bit iffy from the start to me too.  If I choose so, I'll be careful and follow the guides on spotting fake ones that someone posted here.

From your prior posts and your spreadsheet, it seems like you prefer bass as well. But despite that, any recs on drivers for mids and highs? Grado-style sound sig for rock.

Current shortlist:

Full Ti 64ohm
Blue-glue 150ohm
19-21 

Thank you so very much!


----------



## assassin10000

ValSuki said:


> Im actually impressed by this! Looks very clean and well done. Ive been trying to diy some earbuds myself lately but I hope to get to that level soon lol.


Thanks.

They're now paired with a xinhs cable, which showed up today (they were kind enough to make them with no earhook at my request).








BotByte said:


> Hey ya'll! Been loving going through this rabbit hole and being going quite crazy in the process. Thank you ya'll crazies in here for your insight and advice, especially @furyossa, @Rary, @Themilkman46290, @assassin10000, @earfanatic. Ya'll made me login back into this damn old account!
> 
> *Could I ask for driver recommendations? To keep my sanity? *
> 
> ...


For a PK shell I'd recommend the 14.8mm 32Ω titanium driver. Closest of the DIY drivers to the 150Ω redfilm which is getting harder to come by.

It should make for a good balanced/neutral bud, with good extension on both ends.


----------



## BotByte (Oct 14, 2021)

assassin10000 said:


> For a PK shell I'd recommend the 14.8mm 32Ω titanium driver. Closest of the DIY drivers to the 150Ω redfilm which is getting harder to come by.
> 
> It should make for a good balanced/neutral bud, with good extension on both ends.



I think my first step into DIY earbuds is going to be focusing on MX500 shells and drivers, but next would love to try @earfanatic's build out for sure!  If what they say, graph, and put together is true it's absolute genius! It's on the future build list!

What scares me about the build is the driver/shell situation. You suggest to take the titanium drivers from the mesh covers and put them into PK-style covers, right? Killing a driver scares the hell out of me.  Is it really that much of a difference, or do the mesh covers just not fit the PK shell?

Also, the cost of "proper" PK shells are ridiculous! And salvaging old covers. There's cheaper shell/cover combos out there that (I think either you or someone else) suggest to file down the mounting area... and I've heard of folks having issues mounting the drivers in these covers. 

Thank you very much!


----------



## assassin10000

BotByte said:


> I think my first step into DIY earbuds is going to be focusing on MX500 shells and drivers, but next would love to try your build out for sure!  If what you say, graph, and put together is true it's absolute genius! It's on the future build list!
> 
> What scares me about the build is the driver/shell situation. You suggest to take the titanium drivers from the mesh covers and put them into PK-style covers, right? Killing a driver scares the hell out of me.  Is it really that much of a difference, or do the mesh covers just not fit the PK shell?
> 
> ...



I use the stainless covers and sand/file down the newer larger PK shells to fit. No need to swap the driver from the cover.

You can also just buy 3 pairs of the OG shape shells for about $20 iirc.


----------



## BotByte

assassin10000 said:


> I use the stainless covers and sand/file down the newer larger PK shells to fit. No need to swap the driver from the cover.
> 
> You can also just buy 3 pairs of the OG shape shells for about $20 iirc.


OMG, that's so much stress gone! 🎉

I've seen you recommend those shells, and they just seem rather steep compared to the 5pks for $5-6. A little sanding isn't a big deal to me. If the build becomes THE ULTIMATE ONE then I might go a new build in the better shells.

Thank you!


----------



## melodia (Oct 14, 2021)

A little help please.
How can someone determine where is the left/right and where is the ground on the drivers?
For example, in the picture, the upper driver is a monk plus, and it is painted on the left. Below is a tingo tc2000 driver and is painted on the right.
 how can i decide for every different driver that i try?

And what happens if i connect both drivers the same way, even if it is wrong?


----------



## BotByte

melodia said:


> A little help please.
> How can someone determine where is the left/right and where is the ground on the drivers?
> For example, in the picture, the upper driver is a monk plus, and it is painted on the left. Below is a tingo tc2000 driver and is painted on the right.
> how can i decide for every different driver that i try?
> ...


DIY earbud noob here, but with other drivers and whatnot, marked side is your positive. It's marked because different drivers can have different positive sides.


----------



## Rary (Oct 14, 2021)

BotByte said:


> Thank you for the warm welcome!
> 
> The EMX500 drivers sound great, but maybe down the road.  I don't have anything else to buy from that store and shipping is slow. Drivers + faster shipping outweighs the cost of the drivers versus other "better" drivers with faster shipping. How about black dot 19-21s? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html
> 
> ...



19-21 are good drivers but don't expect too much out of them. It's a good starting point for all beginners but i consider them to be a side grade compared to your X6.
If you manage to get free shipping from NSC i would rater buy the 32ohm Ti composite, i consider them to be among the best cheap 32ohm drivers and they are less fragile (19-21 can break easily if you don't have previous experience soldering).

I would skip the 64ohm TI composite for now, especially if you plan to test Full Ti in a rivet mod.
64ohm Ti composite have more bass quantity and slightly better technicalities but cost 3 times more.

For mids and highs i would suggest to try a graphene coated drivers, the 68ohm Graphene should be a good pick but i never tested it. I don't like thin sounding or overly bright earbuds so i never really invested much time and money in bright leaning drivers.


I added those guides a few days ago, i'm currently in the process of updating and expanding the list, i will add a few diy guides for newcomers too in the coming days.
If you have any question before building your first earbuds, feel free to ask 




melodia said:


> A little help please.
> How can someone determine where is the left/right and where is the ground on the drivers?
> For example, in the picture, the upper driver is a monk plus, and it is painted on the left. Below is a tingo tc2000 driver and is painted on the right.
> how can i decide for every different driver that i try?
> ...


There is no left and right driver, the placement of the red dot could be on either sides.
You are supposed to solder Right/Left (Red/Green cable) on the marked side, the Ground (Orange cable) on the other side.
If you solder them incorrectly the sound will be out of phase, you can check it here:


----------



## BotByte

Rary said:


> 19-21 are good drivers but don't expect too much out of them. It's a good starting point for all beginners but i consider them to be a side grade compared to your X6.
> If you manage to get free shipping from NSC i would rater buy the 32ohm Ti composite, i consider them to be among the best cheap 32ohm drivers and they are less fragile (19-21 can break easily if you don't have previous experience soldering).
> 
> I would skip the 64ohm TI composite for now, especially if you plan to test Full Ti in a rivet mod.
> ...


Awesome, thank you! I made an order before your post, but it all looks good. I made up the order as a "dip my toes in the water" sort of deal, focusing on as little money spent to make a few buds. Full Ti driver, the 19-21 (want to try it, it'll be my first test driver), and the 14.6mm titanium driver for the PK-hearts. Enough shells, cables, mod stuff, and damping as instructed by either you or others. All in all, like $35 for three complete buds. _Now to play the waiting game..._ 

Hopefully I can receive stuff before 11.11, build a few buds and see if I want to go DEEPER and catch things on sale. That would be 150ohm blue glue, 68ohm graphene, maybe the 130ohm berry? Those would call for more shells, damping stuff, and cables so deeper into the wallet as well. 

I'd love to see those guides!  When I do my projects, I'll document them and share them with impressions here.

Thanks again!


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 16, 2021)

Well, these scale up with a better source. I had only tried them with my bt20s and my laptops on board sound for watching tv/movies. I tried them the other night with my tc35b and there is a definite improvement with a little amping.

I now use the tc35b with my laptop and these.

Pic of them on the new cable.


----------



## rprodrigues

@assassin10000 

Could you share a photo of the drivers used by LBBS?


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> @assassin10000
> 
> Could you share a photo of the drivers used by LBBS?



This is currently the only photo I have of them, from when I took my white pair apart. It's the one I MMCX modded.


----------



## rprodrigues (Oct 18, 2021)

@assassin10000
Thank you.

I expected Ksearphone had used aftermarket drivers but I was wrong.
Are the side foams all the tuning used?


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> @assassin10000
> Thank you.
> 
> I expected Ksearphone had use aftermarket drivers but I was wrong.
> Are the side foams all the tuning used?


The white tuning cotton, side foams and the gap around the cable acts as a 'port'. All contribute to the sound.


----------



## Drcynwa17

Greetings everyone! I'm new to diy and finally managed to finish reading through this thread. Not sure how much I can absorb though lol. 

Need some drivers recommendation  to start on a build. I'm looking for a driver that sounds like the RY4S plus or if it can be even better than it the more better. 

I own a number of buds like VE Monk+, Monk SM, Faaeal Iris Ancestor, K's earphone 64, Tingo TG38s(2nd favourite), RY4S plus(my favourite! ). 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## BotByte

Drcynwa17 said:


> Greetings everyone! I'm new to diy and finally managed to finish reading through this thread. Not sure how much I can absorb though lol.
> 
> Need some drivers recommendation  to start on a build. I'm looking for a driver that sounds like the RY4S plus or if it can be even better than it the more better.
> 
> ...


I'm just starting out myself, got a few packages going through customs and going to be arriving in a few days, but maybe to help folks out:

What sound signature do you prefer? What does the RY4S+ (for those who don't have them) sound like, and what aspects do you like from them? 

Also, what music do you listen to? 

Are there any drivers you're currently looking at? 

Many drivers have specific sound sigs, but much of that depends on tuning. Coming from my DIY headphone days, mid-centric drivers that earbuds tend to have can vary wildly in sound sigs depending on tuning.


----------



## Rary

Drcynwa17 said:


> Greetings everyone! I'm new to diy and finally managed to finish reading through this thread. Not sure how much I can absorb though lol.
> 
> Need some drivers recommendation  to start on a build. I'm looking for a driver that sounds like the RY4S plus or if it can be even better than it the more better.
> 
> ...


Hello and welcome. 
You seem to like fun V shaped sound signatures so as a first cheap build i would recommend either DIY EMX500 drivers ( the same used in RY4S+) or N50 Red rim (fun sound, more bassy than RY4S). You should also consider buying a bunch of 2$ Vidos to practice soldering and basic tuning (they also sound really good for the price).


----------



## Drcynwa17

BotByte said:


> I'm just starting out myself, got a few packages going through customs and going to be arriving in a few days, but maybe to help folks out:
> 
> What sound signature do you prefer? What does the RY4S+ (for those who don't have them) sound like, and what aspects do you like from them?
> 
> ...


thanks Botbyte. Just realised you were the one that posted this https://www.head-fi.org/threads/diy-earbuds.822327/post-16609153

*What I listen to*: Jazz, Rock, and a bit of everything else

Sorry I'm not sure how to describe the sound signatures. With Monk+, Ancestor I find the vocals seems like muffled, as if like they are singing behind a mask. On the Ry4s plus the veil seems removed. Everything else sounds better too. 

Just saw Rary's comment so I guess this is what is considered as "fun v shaped"


----------



## Drcynwa17

Rary said:


> Hello and welcome.
> You seem to like fun V shaped sound signatures so as a first cheap build i would recommend either DIY EMX500 drivers ( the same used in RY4S+) or N50 Red rim (fun sound, more bassy than RY4S). You should also consider buying a bunch of 2$ Vidos to practice soldering and basic tuning (they also sound really good for the price).


Thank you Rary for the welcome and suggestions. Alright I will try as per your suggestions.


----------



## BotByte (Nov 2, 2021)

Just got the "main" package in. Full TI 64ohm, 19-21, and PK shells.

I threw the 19-21s in some Yincrow X6 shells (I killed a driver by opening and thinking, "Oh, did a hair fall in, better pull that out... *yank* that was a driver coil...") with cheapy RY cables. The shell is properly drilled out in the cable stem area, black horseshoe foam on the shell, bare driver. Only additional thing I did was cut a notch at top of the shell where the driver would fit to avoid any issues.

Impression of 19-21: Bright, mid-forward and a bit lean on the bass (in this config). Compared to the X6s, like night and day. I was missing a touch of upper-mids and especially highs on the X6 for rock and acoustic stuff; the 19-21s deliver that. More intimate sounding with a strong center image, not as spacious in soundstage but I prefer that with brighter tunings. Bass is still there, but not as much punch and some roll-off into sub-bass. It kicks for songs that kick, but doesn't when not called for. I did full-foams with these otherwise the highs get a bit hot. Overall, exciting and has a great balance for non-bass-heavy music, great companion to the X6s. Power-side: Low sensitivity kind of makes me push them more.

Quick edit: As @Rary pointed out below, I put shrink tubing on the cable through the shell stem--would block much of the air. Forgot to mention that due to me being used to headphones. It's not a super tight fit, but still filling quite a lot of gap. That's why I'm getting a brighter sig, but the bass still delivers enough to satisfy. I'll try taking the tubing off later down the road, but still enjoying the sound they produce right now for the music I intend to use them for.

*LATER EDIT*: Without the shrink tube blocking some air escaping, the bass really does open up. Like others have said, very rumbly and reaches low, but it's very clean and mid-bass is a bit leaner compared to other warmer sets like the X6. These truly are V-shaped with deep reaching bass and sparkly highs. Vocals are forward, and not very warm which makes them clean and engaging. Something about the highs brings me back to them; they can be a bit sharp, but in a pleasant way where as other drivers can seem just too sharp. These drivers really are just good-old-fun. 

On my next order I'll get some tuning cotton and foam, so I'll try some stuff.

@Drcynwa17, I'd add these to your list. Cheap and good for your genres. Not Jazz, but Marvin Gaye sounded good on these.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000281063945.html


----------



## Rary (Oct 26, 2021)

BotByte said:


> Just got the "main" package in. Full TI 64ohm, 19-21, and PK shells.
> 
> I threw the 19-21s in some Yincrow X6 shells (I killed a driver by opening and thinking, "Oh, did a hair fall in, better pull that out... *yank* that was a driver coil...") with cheapy RY cables. The shell is properly drilled out in the cable stem area, black horseshoe foam on the shell, bare driver. Only additional thing I did was cut a notch at top of the shell where the driver would fit to avoid any issues.
> 
> ...


Good job, it looks really good!
I see you learned about the voice coil the hard way 

19-21 Red Dots usually have a lot of rumbly bass, it's their defining feature. You probably reduced or plugged the stem with that black shrinking tube i see in the photo.
Of course if you like how it sounds now, there's no need to change anything.


----------



## BotByte

Rary said:


> Good job, it looks really good!
> I see you learned about the voice coil the hard way
> 
> 19-21 Red Dots usually have a lot of rumbly bass, it's their defining feature. You probably reduced or plugged the stem with that black shrinking tube i see in the photo.
> Of course if you like how it sounds now, there's no need to change anything.


I'm not used to teeny-tiny stuff so I was a bit bummed. But that's also why I had a second pair. 

Oph, good catch there! 

The shrink tube was the one thing I didn't mention, but yeah totally could drown out some bass with that. On the upside, it cuts out the cable from wiggling in the hole. Still, I like the sound they put out. But like you in your spreadsheet often say, MX500 needs some more air. Additional thing too: I put a tiny tube of shrink tubing on the positive lead to the driver--not enough to mess with the sound, but enough protection to keep anything from shorting when stuffed into the shell. 

I think on my next order I'll get a bag of cheap MX500 shells to just experiment like crazy with. Torture them with the drill. 👿


----------



## melodia

Wich do you think are the main differences between the Vidos and the Yincrow X6, on how they are build?
The yincrows are wonderful.
They have the same driver, right?
So is the tuning foam the only difference?
Maybe a better shell?
Or something else?


----------



## furyossa

melodia said:


> Wich do you think are the main differences between the Vidos and the Yincrow X6, on how they are build?
> The yincrows are wonderful.
> They have the same driver, right?
> So is the tuning foam the only difference?
> ...


Different tuning only


----------



## jeejack

BotByte said:


> Just got the "main" package in. Full TI 64ohm, 19-21, and PK shells.
> 
> I threw the 19-21s in some Yincrow X6 shells (I killed a driver by opening and thinking, "Oh, did a hair fall in, better pull that out... *yank* that was a driver coil...") with cheapy RY cables. The shell is properly drilled out in the cable stem area, black horseshoe foam on the shell, bare driver. Only additional thing I did was cut a notch at top of the shell where the driver would fit to avoid any issues.
> 
> ...


Same cable different drivers ( 150 ohm )


----------



## re23071998

has anyone managed to open the tg38s?
the glue seems so strong


----------



## Into The Light5

Anyone bought these new driver? i pulled the trigger on both the composite and DLC carbon nano tube (300 ohm ver), both are 15.4mm





Composite 15.4mm 18 ohm  114db





DLC carbon nano tube 15.4mm 32 ohm & 300 ohm both version are 122db (claimed by NSC store through message)
Wonder how they sound...


----------



## BotByte (Dec 2, 2021)

Into The Light5 said:


> Anyone bought these new driver? i pulled the trigger on both the composite and DLC carbon nano tube (300 ohm ver), both are 15.4mm
> 
> Composite 15.4mm 18 ohm  114db
> 
> ...


Saw them both hit NSC.

Elfinear (who I believe is the maker of them 8packs and the 19/21 and 400/500/600 drivers) had the comp ti up for a while, but their prices are a touch high and not a popular store on Ali.

Skipped the comp ti because I have too many titanium drivers already.  Got three now. Also, similar coating as the cheaper variants found here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003104504698.html, but maybe they're different.

edit: Should probably mention. 18ohm at 114db is super efficient. If they play like other titanium drivers, they could be great for a wireless solution for that sweet battery life. 

I've got the 300ohm carbons on their way. Always been a fan of CARBON NANOTOOOBS drivers, despite them being a bit scarce. Dunno what to expect. Typically carbon responds much like titanium.

Sadly, customs has been quite slow. 11.11 stuff has been paused for like... 2 weeks now. :/ So might be waiting a bit for the last sale's stuff to come through.


----------



## Into The Light5

BotByte said:


> Saw them both hit NSC.
> 
> Elfinear (who I believe is the maker of them 8packs and the 19/21 and 400/500/600 drivers) had the comp ti up for a while, but their prices are a touch high and not a popular store on Ali.
> 
> ...


yea, ive been eyeing elfinear, probably a new store in ali, their berillium 600 ohm is double the price than other store though. i made my self the 400/500/600 ohm before, sadly only the 600 ohm version survived now, the 400 is totally broken and the 500 had the coil broken on one of the side. my 600 ohm plastic plate cover is cracked all over the place. Also planning to build the carbon and composite to be physically similiar with the CAX Zoomfred, and probably buy another carbon 32 ohm if i found the 300 ohm version sound good, really cant wait for it hahaha


----------



## BotByte

Into The Light5 said:


> yea, ive been eyeing elfinear, probably a new store in ali, their berillium 600 ohm is double the price than other store though. i made my self the 400/500/600 ohm before, sadly only the 600 ohm version survived now, the 400 is totally broken and the 500 had the coil broken on one of the side. my 600 ohm plastic plate cover is cracked all over the place. Also planning to build the carbon and composite to be physically similiar with the CAX Zoomfred, and probably buy another carbon 32 ohm if i found the 300 ohm version sound good, really cant wait for it hahaha


crap, killed that many drivers?  I've been kinda lucky with soldering, but I haven't touched higher resistance drivers yet. Got 8-packs and 64ohm comp-ti in customs.

My 300ohm carbon drivers are also coming with these wide-open-back metal shells. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002990759826.html

Not sure if I'll use them in that shell. Just was curious of the shells and had a black cable for it. Regardless, I'll do a test listen in stock MX500 shells and report. With experience with DLC drivers being similar to titanium, titanium liking venting, the wide open back metal shell might be a good choice. Also just like the dark driver coating to dark shell.  If not, I've got some medium cavity metal shells in customs as well.


----------



## Into The Light5

BotByte said:


> crap, killed that many drivers?  I've been kinda lucky with soldering, but I haven't touched higher resistance drivers yet. Got 8-packs and 64ohm comp-ti in customs.
> 
> My 300ohm carbon drivers are also coming with these wide-open-back metal shells. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002990759826.html
> 
> Not sure if I'll use them in that shell. Just was curious of the shells and had a black cable for it. Regardless, I'll do a test listen in stock MX500 shells and report. With experience with DLC drivers being similar to titanium, titanium liking venting, the wide open back metal shell might be a good choice. Also just like the dark driver coating to dark shell.  If not, I've got some medium cavity metal shells in customs as well.


the soldering was fine, i wanted to switch the plastic cover with a transparent one, all broke mid way and i paid repairman to recoil these driver, only the 500 and 600 lucky enough to be recoiled, but then it make them so fragile, when i try to use them from a zip storage, one side just died, probably from the pressure when i store them haha


----------



## BotByte

Into The Light5 said:


> the soldering was fine, i wanted to switch the plastic cover with a transparent one, all broke mid way and i paid repairman to recoil these driver, only the 500 and 600 lucky enough to be recoiled, but then it make them so fragile, when i try to use them from a zip storage, one side just died, probably from the pressure when i store them haha


Ah, that sucks, but one of those "gonna do something dangerous, I'm prepared for the consequences" sort of situation. 

I swapped a 14.8mm driver between covers, and that was stressing. I found using nail clippers worked best. Cut away the lip of the covers until the driver backing, get as close as you can. Then lightly pry the cover plastic away from the driver to break the seal on the glue.


----------



## Bizarre

Hi, has anyone tried this headphones housing? I was interested in 3d printing but all the pages I visited are more expensive than this...

I was interested in the 50mm 540 ohm beryllium driver but I don't know if open or closed back is better for these, I normally prefer open back but I like a lot of sound profiles except extreme v-shape.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...sceneId":"3339","sku_id":"12000026260284099"}

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...sceneId":"3339","sku_id":"12000021666857503"}

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33056745798.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.5.34333667tonlzi

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005...sceneId":"3339","sku_id":"12000024531882459"}


----------



## Rary

@BotByte @jeejack i'm joining the blue and white club with my Hatsune Miku inspired earbuds. 

This is the first time i prioritize look over sound but i think i nailed both with this pair (150ohm BG + Rivet).






Spoiler: Lewd close-ups, 18+ only



I tried to color the white filter but it's really hard to see even with transparent shells. There's no point in decoring the insides but it's a cool Easter egg for anyone who knows what it's supposed to represent.


----------



## jeejack (Dec 7, 2021)

Rary said:


> @BotByte @jeejack i'm joining the blue and white club with my Hatsune Miku inspired earbuds.
> 
> This is the first time i prioritize look over sound but i think i nailed both with this pair (150ohm BG + Rivet).
> 
> ...


You say 150 ohm BG rivet mod my good friend?


----------



## jeejack

Into The Light5 said:


> yea, ive been eyeing elfinear, probably a new store in ali, their berillium 600 ohm is double the price than other store though. i made my self the 400/500/600 ohm before, sadly only the 600 ohm version survived now, the 400 is totally broken and the 500 had the coil broken on one of the side. my 600 ohm plastic plate cover is cracked all over the place. Also planning to build the carbon and composite to be physically similiar with the CAX Zoomfred, and probably buy another carbon 32 ohm if i found the 300 ohm version sound good, really cant wait for it hahaha


I'm sory for your drivers ! For me 500 ohm is the best driver


----------



## jeejack

BotByte said:


> crap, killed that many drivers?  I've been kinda lucky with soldering, but I haven't touched higher resistance drivers yet. Got 8-packs and 64ohm comp-ti in customs.
> 
> My 300ohm carbon drivers are also coming with these wide-open-back metal shells. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002990759826.html
> 
> Not sure if I'll use them in that shell. Just was curious of the shells and had a black cable for it. Regardless, I'll do a test listen in stock MX500 shells and report. With experience with DLC drivers being similar to titanium, titanium liking venting, the wide open back metal shell might be a good choice. Also just like the dark driver coating to dark shell.  If not, I've got some medium cavity metal shells in customs as well.


I've tried many drivers in this shell! So far only 130 ohm bery sounds best to me


----------



## BotByte

jeejack said:


> I've tried many drivers in this shell! So far only 130 ohm bery sounds best to me


That's interesting because I've been really enjoying my 130ohm bery in stock MX500 so far (as a test). I'll have to give it a go! Been really enjoying the sheer amount of detail these drivers throw out, so I don't know if opening the back up would decrease the details or not.  If the 300ohm carbon can perform the same, it'll be a toss up.


----------



## jeejack

BotByte said:


> That's interesting because I've been really enjoying my 130ohm bery in stock MX500 so far (as a test). I'll have to give it a go! Been really enjoying the sheer amount of detail these drivers throw out, so I don't know if opening the back up would decrease the details or not.  If the 300ohm carbon can perform the same, it'll be a toss up.


I said it was beautiful and to use it. And I kept changing drivers .... This shell is good with 130 bery of everything I've tried with it. MX500 shells are better!


----------



## BotByte

jeejack said:


> I said it was beautiful and to use it. And I kept changing drivers .... This shell is good with 130 bery of everything I've tried with it. MX500 shells are better!


Wow, that's surprising the MX500 shells were better for you. 

For me, I'm kind of wanting a touch more soundstage and layering. The driver has such amazing capabilities, but the sound feels a bit too focused compared to red-dot 19-21 which are kind of the little sister to them. 

I also have these shells on the way. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000269094624.html Maybe the rear vent can add what I want without too much tuning. 

And I'll try some MX500 with simple holes drilled in.  I think a full rivet mod, even my small rivets, might cause the bass to increase a bit too much.


----------



## antigav

Can this be fixed?


----------



## antigav

Can this be fixed?


----------



## re23071998

was trying to make smabat clone and turned out they sound awful 🤣
the drivers are the 130 berry. seems that it needs very specific drivers or the venting on my model sucks.


Spoiler: failedbat


----------



## furyossa

re23071998 said:


> was trying to make smabat clone and turned out they sound awful 🤣
> the drivers are the 130 berry. seems that it needs very specific drivers or the venting on my model sucks.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: failedbat


Nice work man. Can you share *.max file? There are several things that you need to consider. 
Pressure in front and back of driver need to be balanced to provide a better working  environment for driver. This requires a lot of testing
Labyrinth canal has good length but I think overall volume is too big.  Nozzle part is also debatable
BTW... I like, DLP print material, it's very nice and has nice feel to the touch, but acoustic characteristics can't be compared with resin and metallic shells.


----------



## re23071998 (Dec 10, 2021)

furyossa said:


> Nice work man. Can you share *.max file? There are several things that you need to consider.
> Pressure in front and back of driver need to be balanced to provide a better working  environment for driver. This requires a lot of testing
> Labyrinth canal has good length but I think overall volume is too big.  Nozzle part is also debatable
> BTW... I like, DLP print material, it's very nice and has nice feel to the touch, but acoustic characteristics can't be compared with resin and metallic shells.


sure thing. not the best in terms of topology and crap, tho.
that hole was supposed to be for short mmcx (the 4mm diameter iirc)
it was printed with pla resin.

also the fitting isnt the best to me.

looking forward on what youll come up with 😁


----------



## re23071998 (Dec 10, 2021)

a bit better after some eq.
the imaging is still messy, but it kinda has that out of my head feeling.

also the volume is sooo quiet, need to crank up the volume at 100 with my direct laptop.
and those rubber rings are a must.


----------



## captione

BotByte said:


> Elfinear (who I believe is the maker of them 8packs and the 19/21 and 400/500/600 drivers) had the comp ti up for a while, but their prices are a touch high and not a popular store on Ali.


Elfinear did not make the 19-21s. It's Haoyun. They make OEM "Foster" drivers of different varieties, most popularly the big solder 19-21s that were derived from the first driver models of the MX500 ('97 -'03 I think?) 
https://sz-haoyun.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-818587540/16mm.html?spm=a2700.shop_pl.98.14


----------



## BotByte

captione said:


> Elfinear did not make the 19-21s. It's Haoyun. They make OEM "Foster" drivers of different varieties, most popularly the big solder 19-21s that were derived from the first driver models of the MX500 ('97 -'03 I think?)
> https://sz-haoyun.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-818587540/16mm.html?spm=a2700.shop_pl.98.14


Thanks for the correction!


----------



## Into The Light5

so im checking elfinear store and it seem they reduced the price of several driver (mostly the one that cost double), and i found this
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100....store_pc_groupList.8148356.22.219e5730WLdGMg



im a bit curious, have anyone tried the 30 ohm version?
and in this link
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.6.15a85730qE5BYw
there is this option named 32 ohm berrylium, do you think both driver i mentioned are the same? if there is a lower impedance version of the 600 ohm berrylium, this will be a huge found for me, i really love the 600 berrylium, not as bright as 400 ohm, and not as warm as 500 ohm. sadly im only using sony dap that tend lack in power driving


----------



## Rary

Into The Light5 said:


> so im checking elfinear store and it seem they reduced the price of several driver (mostly the one that cost double), and i found this
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100....store_pc_groupList.8148356.22.219e5730WLdGMg
> 
> im a bit curious, have anyone tried the 30 ohm version?
> ...


Sometimes Elfinear produces some custom drivers in small quantities like the green and gold 17ohm Beryllium composite but i never really heard of any 30ohm Bery driver, you should ask the seller directly to be sure.





The only 32ohm Beryllium driver i know is the 19-21 variant you can find here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002765718710.html which is very good but has nothing to do with the 600ohm Papa Bery.


----------



## Into The Light5

Rary said:


> Sometimes Elfinear produces some custom drivers in small quantities like the green and gold 17ohm Beryllium composite but i never really heard of any 30ohm Bery driver, you should ask the seller directly to be sure.
> 
> 
> 
> The only 32ohm Beryllium driver i know is the 19-21 variant you can find here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002765718710.html which is very good but has nothing to do with the 600ohm Papa Bery.


yeah youre right, so elfinear answered that the 32 ohm berylium and the 30 ohm berylium are different, probably the 30 ohm one are the lower version of the papa bery


----------



## jeejack

Thanks to @FranQL and @furyossa
LCP 120 ohm ( gold cable )
32 ohm N52 ( gold/brown cable )


----------



## sfrsfr

jeejack said:


> Thanks to @FranQL and @furyossa
> LCP 120 ohm ( gold cable )
> 32 ohm N52 ( gold/brown cable )


Awesome! How do they sound?
Btw. did you make the gold cable with 2.5mm plug yourself or did you buy it somewhere?


----------



## jeejack

sfrsfr said:


> Awesome! How do they sound?
> Btw. did you make the gold cable with 2.5mm plug yourself or did you buy it somewhere?


For the yellow one I changed the plug from 3.5mm to 2.5mm and the yellow/brown cable is made entirely by me. Both buds sound great and I recommend these drivers


----------



## sfrsfr

jeejack said:


> For the yellow one I changed the plug from 3.5mm to 2.5mm and the yellow/brown cable is made entirely by me. Both buds sound great and I recommend these drivers


The LCP driver is also advertised as 130 ohm, I expect it is the same driver...
Do you have a link for the 32 ohm N52 driver?

Also Ry audio store on AE will make you earbud cable with 2.5mm plug on request for the same price as the 3.5 one. I just ordered one and I expect standard Ry quality.


----------



## jeejack

sfrsfr said:


> The LCP driver is also advertised as 130 ohm, I expect it is the same driver...
> Do you have a link for the 32 ohm N52 driver?
> 
> Also Ry audio store on AE will make you earbud cable with 2.5mm plug on request for the same price as the 3.5 one. I just ordered one and I expect standard Ry quality.


RON 20.93  20%OFF | 15.4mm 32 ohm Bass Headphone Driver Speakers N52 Strong Magnetic Drivers for MX500 with Headphone Shell
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPJoei2

I know, but it's more fun to make them myself 😉


----------



## BotByte

jeejack said:


> Thanks to @FranQL and @furyossa
> LCP 120 ohm ( gold cable )
> 32 ohm N52 ( gold/brown cable )


Nice! Kinda wanting those N52 drivers after lots of good word of the Newbsound 32pros. 

Where are you getting these beads from?  AE?


----------



## sfrsfr

So who already tried the DLC drivers? (https://aliexpress.com/item/1005003536966575.html)
Are DLC comparable to Titanium (composite)? I have no DLC earbuds afaik.


----------



## sfrsfr

BotByte said:


> Nice! Kinda wanting those N52 drivers after lots of good word of the Newbsound 32pros.
> 
> Where are you getting these beads from?  AE?


Does the Newbsound 32pro uses this specific driver?


----------



## BotByte

sfrsfr said:


> So who already tried the DLC drivers? (https://aliexpress.com/item/1005003536966575.html)
> Are DLC comparable to Titanium (composite)? I have no DLC earbuds afaik.


Passed customs a bit ago, in the mail to my city. Maybe arrive next week. 


sfrsfr said:


> Does the Newbsound 32pro uses this specific driver?


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/page-3942#post-16690427

I don't know any other drivers that are 15.4mm 32ohm N52 magnets, so I'm guessing that them. A $4-5 driver set lines up with the asking price for their set (add on shell/cable/crafting/shipping/profit-margin).


----------



## jeejack (Dec 16, 2021)

.


----------



## Rary

sfrsfr said:


> Does the Newbsound 32pro uses this specific driver?


Yes, it's the well known N52 Blue Glue, you can find it here Link.

It's a great driver and for the price it's worth trying a pair but i'm also convinced that most of the hype comes from people that never tried properly tuned earbuds and it's used to buy overpriced junk.


----------



## sfrsfr

Rary said:


> Yes, it's the well known N52 Blue Glue, you can find it here Link.
> 
> It's a great driver and for the price it's worth trying a pair but i'm also convinced that most of the hype comes from people that never tried properly tuned earbuds and it's used to buy overpriced junk.


In that case this driver goes to my collection asap.
But I also cannot claim that I can properly tune earbuds .... Though to my surprise most of my diy drivers sound pretty good without any extra tuning (apart a simple horse shoe foam on vents and such).


----------



## sfrsfr

Rary said:


> Sometimes Elfinear produces some custom drivers in small quantities like the green and gold 17ohm Beryllium composite but i never really heard of any 30ohm Bery driver, you should ask the seller directly to be sure.
> 
> 
> 
> The only 32ohm Beryllium driver i know is the 19-21 variant you can find here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002765718710.html which is very good but has nothing to do with the 600ohm Papa Bery.


I too can highly recommend the 32ohm composite beryllium driver. Without any special tuning in a simple MX500 shell it sounds excellent. Reminds me of the sound signature of RY4S plus.


----------



## emusic13

Rary said:


> Yes, it's the well known N52 Blue Glue, you can find it here Link.
> 
> It's a great driver and for the price it's worth trying a pair but i'm also convinced that most of the hype comes from people that never tried properly tuned earbuds and it's used to buy overpriced junk.


Newb32pro is really good.

If I'm reading your sentence correctly, I can relate. I bought the overpriced junk I think you're referring to before and sold it. I agree most of those buyers have not heard properly tuned earbuds but some have. The ones that have heard proper ones, sold theirs too and don't care about the elitism that comes with the name and pricing


----------



## FranQL

sfrsfr said:


> In that case this driver goes to my collection asap.
> But I also cannot claim that I can properly tune earbuds .... Though to my surprise most of my diy drivers sound pretty good without any extra tuning (apart a simple horse shoe foam on vents and such).


Oh brother, you would be surprised!


----------



## FranQL

emusic13 said:


> Newb32pro is really good.
> 
> If I'm reading your sentence correctly, I can relate. I bought the overpriced junk I think you're referring to before and sold it. I agree most of those buyers have not heard properly tuned earbuds but some have. The ones that have heard proper ones, sold theirs too and don't care about the elitism that comes with the name and pricing



Well, I'm sorry to say that N52 is far, but far from what other DIY drivers offer.


----------



## emusic13

FranQL said:


> Well, I'm sorry to say that N52 is far, but far from what other DIY drivers offer.


I guess that would depend on the tuning then. I have heard most if not all the DIY drivers. I go by the end result sound, not driver cost to judge. I agree by itself, the N52 isnt as special as say an LCP or Bio-cellulose driver but the tuning he's done to that model is what makes it sound great.


----------



## FranQL (Dec 16, 2021)

emusic13 said:


> I guess that would depend on the tuning then. I have heard most if not all the DIY drivers. I go by the end result sound, not driver cost to judge. I agree by itself, the N52 isnt as special as say an LCP or Bio-cellulose driver but the tuning he's done to that model is what makes it sound great.



Nothing to add.... but in no case did I judge the cost of the driver


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 16, 2021)

emusic13 said:


> Newb32pro is really good.
> 
> If I'm reading your sentence correctly, I can relate. I bought the overpriced junk I think you're referring to before and sold it. I agree most of those buyers have not heard properly tuned earbuds but some have. The ones that have heard proper ones, sold theirs too and don't care about the elitism that comes with the name and pricing


Haven't sold mine!

*@emusic13*
Now all joking aside and being respectfully frank.

What's with this _continual and increasingly_ condescending tone to your post(s)? The continued use of broad brush strokes which negatively label others who like what you do not? Everyone is entitled to their opinions but not at the repeated expense of others. You have previously posted many helpful, insightful, and thoughtful posts... of a friendlier nature... all of which were sincerely appreciated, welcomed, and enjoyable to read but these more recent (past six months or so) condescending and ultra-negative posts have not been.

Haven't you got this negativity out of your system yet? We all get it mate, you don't like Blur. And that is perfectly fine, but gosh you sure have managed to spell this out quite clearly in many, many, many posts and through negative tags. We get it. Really, we do. You are coming across awfully hell bent in wanting to disparage a respected and kind DIY'er and a nice line of earbuds. You should know, that many of us honestly do not understand why that is and are scratching our heads a bit about it.

You bought (heard) one model and didn't like it. Fair enough. There are a number of Blur models that I didn't/don't like as well. But you have subsequently painted the entire brand as junk without hearing it. Have you at all considered that perhaps the 173 MX150 signature was simply not suitable to (for) your preferences? It happens you know.

How could sub USD 700 earbuds ever be considered as being elite? Earbuds are on average one of the cheapest transducer mediums in the hobby and one of the reasons why many of us like earbuds. I believe you grossly misunderstand why many of us purchase the earbuds that we do. There are many of us here whom have owned and listened to countless hundreds of different earbuds and we each prefer certain ones over others. That is normal. We all have our personal preferences and tastes, simple as that. Just because you may not like something doesn't mean everyone else is wrong, inexperienced, or stupid for liking it. What a poor and horribly negative mindset to have if you ever want to move forward in, fully explore, and/or truly enjoy this hobby especially with other fellow earbud fanatics and fiends.


----------



## FranQL

For my part there is no problem, if you have found the headset that leads to ecstasy it seems great to me !!!! I of course maintain my opinion, that is what mine is for ...


----------



## jeejack

I don't understand what the problem is? Is @FranQL  not allowed to give his opinion? I have 3 Blur buds and DIY version of Newbsound 32pro. All sound good but I also have MANY better drivers / buds than the ones mentioned. Am I wrong? As a good opinion is welcome and a negative one is welcome.

It really wasn't mean at all !!!


----------



## jeejack

Rary said:


> Yes, it's the well known N52 Blue Glue, you can find it here Link.
> 
> It's a great driver and for the price it's worth trying a pair but i'm also convinced that most of the hype comes from people that never tried properly tuned earbuds and it's used to buy overpriced junk.


Very well said ! Totally agree!


----------



## jeejack

I still have a problem !!!
Money today is very hard to earn. From my point of view it is not normal to charge $ 150 for a $ 10 driver. At least make the splitter and the jack from gold. Can I say this is called deception and not business? Or is it stupid who pays the money not who asks for the money?

I hope I didn't bother or upset anyone!
Thanks !


----------



## FranQL

jeejack said:


> I still have a problem !!!
> Money today is very hard to earn. From my point of view it is not normal to charge $ 150 for a $ 10 driver. At least make the splitter and the jack from gold. Can I say this is called deception and not business? Or is it stupid who pays the money not who asks for the money?
> 
> I hope I didn't bother or upset anyone!
> Thanks !




you have not included the cost of magic ... you have to go for the spells at Howards


----------



## Rary (Dec 16, 2021)

emusic13 said:


> Newb32pro is really good.
> 
> If I'm reading your sentence correctly, I can relate. I bought the overpriced junk I think you're referring to before and sold it. I agree most of those buyers have not heard properly tuned earbuds but some have. The ones that have heard proper ones, sold theirs too and don't care about the elitism that comes with the name and pricing


I hope i didn't offend anyone by saying that  
What i meant is that a lot of branded and expensive earbuds usually are nothing more than a "drag and drop" or they aren't tuned to their full potential so any earbuds with a decent tuning will sound exceptonal to most and i'm sure from all the feedback that Irv003 did a great job with it!

I'm happy that so many people enjoyed the 32pro because it showed everyone what DIY earbuds can achieve with such a little budget.
I hope that many more people will join us in the following months, that's why i'm working on a guide to introduce more people to the hobby. I'll publish it very soon, it will be my Christmas gift for all of you.


----------



## BotByte

jeejack said:


> I still have a problem !!!
> Money today is very hard to earn. From my point of view it is not normal to charge $ 150 for a $ 10 driver. At least make the splitter and the jack from gold. Can I say this is called deception and not business? Or is it stupid who pays the money not who asks for the money?
> 
> I hope I didn't bother or upset anyone!
> Thanks !


Audiophilia and such hobbies are hobbies where there are big money holes. No one is forcing you to pay a ton of money for gear, that's your choice. So I say, push the "money is hard, this is expensive" argument to the side.  

I think as we're in the DIY sector, we understand more of the profit-margins in consumer audio gear. 

Consumer audio gear has some of the biggest profit margins at certain points. The cheap stuff have to be sold in bulk, but the more expensive stuff has wider and wider profit margins. 

We understand this, but it's two-fold. 

First, we pay single-sale pricing. Our $4-5 a pair drivers can be found for under $1 as wholesale. We pay like 3-10X as much for individual parts. 

Second, we don't see the work, labor and expertise put in some products. We're pretty much copying proven designs, or other people have experimented at the cost of their time and money. A (good) big company might test extensively, work with manufactures, and have to put up the money to get a product on the market. China makes this easy, and 'crowdfunding' helps curve some issues. Now, bad companies that just smash things together and throw it on the market aren't good, but I think consumers are getting wise to this.

For small DIY companies, I don't have much of an issue so long as they're cool. Newbsounds seems like they put in the work and don't charge stupid prices, and their service seems good. Also, big props for being open about which driver they're using--they could just perma-glue the driver in place and say "it's a sekret". 

I've seen far, far worse companies on HeadFi and other audio boards. One (unnamed) notable company uses some of the cheapest parts on the market and charges 1,000X the price of parts for that stuff to be dressed up, on a pretty website, with BS terminology to stroke their buyer's ego. This company was on the home page of an audio site. What an embarrassment.


----------



## emusic13

I apologize if I offended anyone as well but my post wasnt meant to be condescending. It was more to question why some people judge an earbuds sound before having heard it themselves just because of the type of driver used.

For those that haven't tried properly tuned earbuds, it just doesn't sit well with me when I see them buy multiple overpriced models of a certain brand and are never satisfied, yet some people who have never heard it are still eager to defend the pricing. 

This is a DIY thread right? I would guess most of the fun comes from being able to share experience, the costs, how to, and most of all how to get the best value when DIYing as a community. If a tuner has done a great job with a normal n52 driver, I'd say that should be congratulated! instead of calling it mere hype. 

Again, this is not directed at anyone, but I do wish more people would give smaller makers a chance.


----------



## jeejack

You're right but you can't hype some buds in the DIY thread. Believe me, most of the active members of THIS thread tried all the drivers on the market! You can hype in Earbuds thread for buds that you like but it's hard here because we know all the builds, prices and tunings.
It was no problem, for example, to praise the N52 driver.
I have all the respect for Diyers for all their hard work but once again I say that it's hard to make hype here in the DIY thread.
I hope I made myself clear.
Thanks !


----------



## emusic13

jeejack said:


> You're right but you can't hype some buds in the DIY thread. Believe me, most of the active members of THIS thread tried all the drivers on the market! You can hype in Earbuds thread for buds that you like but it's hard here because we know all the builds, prices and tunings.
> It was no problem, for example, to praise the N52 driver.
> I have all the respect for Diyers for all their hard work but once again I say that it's hard to make hype here in the DIY thread.
> I hope I made myself clear.
> Thanks !


Oh you're definitely right! I wasn't trying to hype anything. If only some people in earbuds thread were as open minded as the DIYers here.


----------



## jeejack

emusic13 said:


> Oh you're definitely right! I wasn't trying to hype anything. If only some people in earbuds thread were as open minded as the DIYers here.


👍🥂


----------



## furyossa

emusic13 said:


> Oh you're definitely right! I wasn't trying to hype anything. If only some people in earbuds thread were as open minded as the DIYers here.


You have great collection of buds, and I think that you need to start with DIY ASAP


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> You have great collection of buds, and I think that you need to start with DIY ASAP


Totally agree


----------



## jeejack

FranQL said:


> Totally agree


Me too 👍


----------



## BotByte (Dec 17, 2021)

Ok folks, here's my impression of the new 15.4mm 300ohm DLC carbon nano tube drivers.





https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003536966575.html

*The short:* TOTL right out of the bag. Best bass I have, a little warmth in mids, highs are articulate without being piercing. Good soundstage, accuracy, positioning, while staying smooth and detailed. "L-shaped" sound, maybe? Bass with neutral mids and highs. 

I was curious of these drivers so I grabbed a pair. The 300ohm, because for a few bucks more, why not?

*Tuning:* Swapped these into some stock MX500 shells. RY cable with proper air, shell with just horseshoe foam, nothing special. The drivers on NSC have foam behind them, other stores like Chitty's show no foam. Haven't adjusted this yet.

*Bass:* MASSIVE SURPRISE. I swapped these for my 64ohm composite Ti drivers, and I'll say they match the bass output. Good power, articulate. And -- dare I say it -- the bass reaches DEEPER. 64ohm comp-ti reaches low already for earbuds, but these reach just a touch lower. My deep-sub-bass test song is Phantom by Justice. There's some absurdly low <30hz rumble in this track that even many IEMs can't hit. 64ohm comp-ti touches some of that rumble; DLC 300ohm hits it, like dead on. No bloat like Fiio FH3s or Mangird Teas; just solid rumble. Mid-bass has good power, but doesn't bleed into the mids too much. Now, I think 130ohm berry has better defined bass, at the cost of less power behind them. The DLC 300ohm remind me of a mix between 64ohm full ti rivet mod with their bass and soundstage, and 64ohm comp-ti with their depth and accuracy. @Rary get these!

*Mids:* The mids are rather similar to the 64ohm comp-ti. Good presence, articulation. There's a good amount of space and soundstage with the mids, maybe at the off-set of making guitars and vocals seem a little soft. But I say this as someone who likes peaks in the mids, so from a neutral standpoint, I'd say these drivers have a great tonality throughout. Nothing offensive, not veiled, but _smooth and a good amount of space_ without feeling distant. Compared to the 130ohms that just throw details at you, these DLC 300ohm are an easier listen. I found myself enjoying female vocals more on these compared male vocals--maybe a touch more in the upper-mids versus lower mids. Pianos sound amazing on these!

*Highs:* Similar to the 64ohm comp-it as they're unoffensive, but have nice definition and sparkle when it's called for. Not as much extension as 130ohm berry, but those drivers can have offensive treble for treble-sensitive folks due to their extension. Cymbals still strike well, high hats and whatnot. For the most part, the highs carry the same as the mids: Smooth and present, with some width and depth, but maybe not as detailed as more aggressive drivers out there.

*Soundstage/detail/staging/accuracy:* These rather remind me of red-dot 19/21 with (as stock) very good soundstage and positioning. Good width and expansion. Accuracy is on-point. Something about the soundstage and smoothness lends them well to not-so-well recorded music, and easier listening. 130ohm berry, in comparison, force detail on you and can feel a bit aggressive and badly recorded songs just sound bad due to them revealing EVERYTHING. The DLC 300ohm are a bit more laid back, doesn't throw the faults as much.

*Closing thoughts:* I still have some time to spend with these, driver burn-in or brain burn-in. But from the bag, I'm really enjoying these drivers. These are going to become my go-to earbuds for bassy, easy listening. They're an easy recommendation for folks wanting TOTL bass drivers. I'd recommend these over 64ohm comp-ti in a heartbeat.


----------



## Rary

BotByte said:


> The DLC 300ohm remind me of a mix between 64ohm full ti rivet mod with their bass and soundstage, and 64ohm comp-ti with their depth and accuracy. @Rary get these!



During the last sale i was undecided between the 300ohm DLC and the Super One drivers and in the end i decided to buy the latter because i was afraid that the rigid carbon membrane couldn't do bass well enough for my taste ( + they are being sold for way too much on Ali since you can find them for close to 5$ in other Asian stores...)

I kinda regret it now since the Super one drivers required an incredible amount of work to convert to MX500 and they turned out to be fairly disappointing albeit very good looking!


----------



## furyossa

BotByte said:


> Ok folks, here's my impression of the new 15.4mm 300ohm DLC carbon nano tube drivers.
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003536966575.html
> ...


Great first impression. Be sure to post your build (beauty shot) and link for the driver.
Anyway... keep up good work


----------



## furyossa

Rary said:


> During the last sale i was undecided between the 300ohm DLC and the Super One drivers and in the end i decided to buy the latter because i was afraid that the rigid carbon membrane couldn't do bass well enough for my taste ( + they are being sold for way too much on Ali since you can find them for close to 5$ in other Asian stores...)
> 
> I kinda regret it now since the Super one drivers required an incredible amount of work to convert to MX500 and they turned out to be fairly disappointing albeit very good looking!


IMO, I think that the drivers from this new series go in this order, bass wise : Bery, DLC, LCP


----------



## BotByte

Rary said:


> During the last sale i was undecided between the 300ohm DLC and the Super One drivers and in the end i decided to buy the latter because i was afraid that the rigid carbon membrane couldn't do bass well enough for my taste ( + they are being sold for way too much on Ali since you can find them for close to 5$ in other Asian stores...)
> 
> I kinda regret it now since the Super one drivers required an incredible amount of work to convert to MX500 and they turned out to be fairly disappointing albeit very good looking!


I feel ya! I was debating the same, but I like to spread out. I have too many titanium drivers already, wanted something different and then CARBON NANO TOOOOBS and went for them. 🤣 

That's why I wanted to report on these drivers. I took the risk, it paid off. I rec them big time for folks who want that "L-shape" sound. Probably my go-to drivers for electronic music.


furyossa said:


> Great first impression. Be sure to post your build (beauty shot) and link for the driver.
> Anyway... keep up good work


Thanks! 

The driver link is in the post. 

I'll be working on a build... I've got two available aluminum shells and I just don't know if I want to go more open to expand soundstage and bass, or close down to maximize the natural soundstage and improve bass texture. But I will post my final build when it's done!


----------



## sfrsfr

assassin10000 said:


> Regarding the 120Ω Be drivers. They come with the larger modded PK shells and covers that are 16.7mm O.D.
> 
> I was able to safely remove the drivers and swap them into the smaller stainless steel covers 16.1-16.3mm O.D. They do have some glue holding them in and fortunately I had no mishaps.
> 
> ...


Could anyone share specific ways they tuned the 120Ω Be drivers?
I'm going to build them this weekend so fishing for tips to speed up the process.


----------



## sfrsfr (Dec 18, 2021)

RY4S UE inside. No tuning apart horse shoe foam .
Anyone knows these drivers (32 ohm, 95dB)?


----------



## sfrsfr

furyossa said:


> IMO, I think that the drivers from this new series go in this order, bass wise : Bery, DLC, LCP


What new series? Share more info and links, please.


----------



## BotByte

sfrsfr said:


> RY4S UE inside. No tuning apart horse shoe foam .
> Anyone knows these drivers (32 ohm, 95dB)?


They're typically called EMX500 drivers. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000443651531.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979009902.html

A few brands use the same driver.


----------



## sfrsfr

BotByte said:


> They're typically called EMX500 drivers.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000443651531.html
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32979009902.html
> ...


Then I should open my Fengru EMX500 to see if the drivers are the same. But interestingly they don't sound exactly the same (as far as I remember).


----------



## Rary

sfrsfr said:


> Then I should open my Fengru EMX500 to see if the drivers are the same. But interestingly they don't sound exactly the same (as far as I remember).


You might have received a fake Fengru EMX500 like i did. This is what i found in my pair:


----------



## irv003

Rary said:


> You might have received a fake Fengru EMX500 like i did. This is what i found in my pair:


True, the build looks similar but they dont have same sound quality.


----------



## assassin10000

sfrsfr said:


> Could anyone share specific ways they tuned the 120Ω Be drivers?
> I'm going to build them this weekend so fishing for tips to speed up the process.



I might be the only one who has?

In any case, I didn't have any of the white horseshoe tuning cotton, so everything I did was shell related. No fillers (poly/cotton/etc.) since it was a plastic shell, I think I experimented with both foam and different porous medical tapes for the vents. I also MMCX modded the shells.


----------



## rprodrigues

assassin10000 said:


> I might be the only one who has?
> 
> In any case, I didn't have any of the white horseshoe tuning cotton, so everything I did was shell related. No fillers (poly/cotton/etc.) since it was a plastic shell, I think I experimented with both foam and different porous medical tapes for the vents. I also MMCX modded the shells.



Likely... 

As you told us 32 Ohm TI drivers are a better choice, most has avoided the 120 Ohm Bery (my case).


----------



## assassin10000

rprodrigues said:


> Likely...
> 
> As you told us 32 Ohm TI drivers are a better choice, most has avoided the 120 Ohm Bery (my case).



That and the increasingly harder to source 150Ω redfilm.

Granted if I had a dap or amp setup it may have been better with more power (for control and dynamics). But I only had an old Samsung S5, my ddhifi tc35b/pixel3xl and Lenovo laptop for sources.


----------



## sfrsfr

assassin10000 said:


> I might be the only one who has?
> 
> In any case, I didn't have any of the white horseshoe tuning cotton, so everything I did was shell related. No fillers (poly/cotton/etc.) since it was a plastic shell, I think I experimented with both foam and different porous medical tapes for the vents. I also MMCX modded the shells.


I got the drivers with some tuning cotton on them and I just closed the bass vents with micropore tape. I do have powerful enough amps to drive them properly. I will report back when the build is finished.


----------



## Into The Light5

BotByte said:


> Ok folks, here's my impression of the new 15.4mm 300ohm DLC carbon nano tube drivers.
> 
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003536966575.html
> ...


My 300 ohm dlc is already here, i got every part except the cable, since i mention im gonna build a "CAX zoomfred" inspired looks, my mogami 2799 still on the way, and look exactly like zoomfred cable, but we never know right? 

Anyway how is it compared to 600ohm papa bery? especially the soundstage, or how do u mod urs to have a huge soundstage? im eager to learn modding, all i know for now are just horseshoe damper, and housing drill. is there any specific thing i should do to tune these DLC drivers?

I buy several local earbuds just to see how they tune, i had an abnormal t2 before, there is a small drill hole on the housing at the bottom near the driver. also had a willsound mk2 before.
thx before


----------



## Into The Light5

im glad i went for rhodium plug for my DLC build (plug by PAPRI), and a mogami cable, i hope it add a bit of treble for the L shape sound of the DLC driver (sry for the crappy picture)
I seriously cant wait for my cable


----------



## BotByte (Dec 20, 2021)

Into The Light5 said:


> My 300 ohm dlc is already here, i got every part except the cable, since i mention im gonna build a "CAX zoomfred" inspired looks, my mogami 2799 still on the way, and look exactly like zoomfred cable, but we never know right?
> 
> Anyway how is it compared to 600ohm papa bery? especially the soundstage, or how do u mod urs to have a huge soundstage? im eager to learn modding, all i know for now are just horseshoe damper, and housing drill. is there any specific thing i should do to tune these DLC drivers?
> 
> ...


I don't have the 600ohm berry because they're expensive.

Modding depends on hundreds of factors.

For me, when I get a new driver, I run it in the basic MX500 setup with horeshoe foam on the shell and not touching the driver. That's the baseline. I let the driver burn in (if it help, I don't believe in it), but I let myself experience the "stock" sound for a while. Then I start modding.

Some drivers just have natural soundstage. The DLC driver from NSC has foam on them, so they're producing the soundstage from the driver itself. Even like 19/21 red-dots have this (as comes without foam or cotton on the back). Compare that to 64ohm Full-ti (black-dot 19/21) which want a lot of air--when you rivet mod these, they open up a lot in both bass and soundstage, otherwise they sound flat, boring, neutral bass, very forward with not much soundstage. But then there's other drivers out there that like little to no air from the case, as seen in Blur, Newbsound, maybe Willsound(?).

That's the fun of modding. Try different things, see what sticks to what you prefer. My suggestion: Run stock for a while, then try giving the driver more air with less foam/cotton on the back because this more often helps, and then try less air which doesn't often help. From there it's a balancing act for what you want. My 64ohm Full-ti rivet mods, I'll say, has too big of a rivet (1/8inch (3.2mm) rather than 2.4mm) so they're not as "perfect" as they could be, but I like the sound so they're staying that way.

Small note: You said you ordered a Mogami cable. Depending on the thickness of the cable in the MX500 cable tunnel, you might have less air passing through it. RY cables are SUPER thin and allow a lot of air, but other cables can be more restrictive. One of my first lessons, and a oops I posted here, was I put heat shrink on the RY cable and that sealed a lot of air from the drivers so they felt bass-light. Taking that off changed the sound like night and day.


----------



## Into The Light5

BotByte said:


> I don't have the 600ohm berry because they're expensive.
> 
> Modding depends on hundreds of factors.
> 
> ...


noted and thanks! i will avoid adding heatshrink at the cable port, i also try other mx500 housing variant if possible, maybe the tc200 shell or the one with print marking, both seems slightly have bigger chamber? based on the previous post that i read. im planning to make the soundstage as wide as possible without adding too much bass


----------



## BotByte

Into The Light5 said:


> noted and thanks! i will avoid adding heatshrink at the cable port, i also try other mx500 housing variant if possible, maybe the tc200 shell or the one with print marking, both seems slightly have bigger chamber? based on the previous post that i read. im planning to make the soundstage as wide as possible without adding too much bass


I've heard that the cheapy shells can have some weirdness in the cable port hole, but I never had these. (I drop a drill bit down these holes to check). 

As for adding soundstage without too much bass, maybe drill some holes in the back of the shells. MX500 shells need more air. But, again, this depends on the driver, dampening, etc..


----------



## Ronion

Into The Light5 said:


> im glad i went for rhodium plug for my DLC build (plug by PAPRI), and a mogami cable, i hope it add a bit of treble for the L shape sound of the DLC driver (sry for the crappy picture)
> I seriously cant wait for my cable


Where do you source Mogami cable that can fit into earbuds?  I’d like to have it just for feel.  Mogami makes some incredibly flexible guitar cable that has less microphonics than anything I’ve tried.


----------



## Into The Light5 (Dec 24, 2021)

Ronion said:


> Where do you source Mogami cable that can fit into earbuds?  I’d like to have it just for feel.  Mogami makes some incredibly flexible guitar cable that has less microphonics than anything I’ve tried.


some local music store have a stock of neglex 2893, and for the 2799 i imported these, anyway in aliexpress you can found an alternative cable which is canare, i bought the L4E5-AT, same quad cores like 2893, similiar diameter but a slightly stiffer jacket. the 2893 and 2799 are known to be used in some of iem & headphone diy cable, im just curious on an earbud application, most of these diy-er cable like how they sound


----------



## Into The Light5 (Dec 24, 2021)

So jietu (the shopee one) are selling these driver, my 1st time seeing these, and they cost the same as 600 ohm beryllium, here are the copy/paste description :

"15.4mm Earphones Speaker Unit High-end PET blue diamond Diaphragm Carbon nanotubes 32 Ohm Resin diaphragm HiFi Flat Earphones DIY Earphones Drivers Features: This speaker unit is 3 way balanced. solid low frequency, warm vocal mid-frequency, high resolution. The characteristics are better than LCP diaphragm and softer than LCP diaphragm speaker unit. It can make sure vocal is clear and warm while ensuring the powerful of low frequency. 15.4mm PET diaphragm speaker unit, the diaphragm is blue color. This speaker unit is common to MX500 shell, impedance is 32 Ohm, easy to push. PET is a polymer resin material, it has strong high temperature and low temperature resistance. It's used to make the earphones speaker unit diaphragm not easy to be deformed and damaged, and the shrinkage stability is good."


----------



## Ronion

That driver makes me feel thirsty for some reason. 

the Mogami look to be a difficult fit/heavy for a bud.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 25, 2021)

Ronion said:


> That driver makes me feel thirsty for some reason.
> 
> the Mogami look to be a difficult fit/heavy for a bud.


You haven't seen/held a higher tiered _Cypherus_ _Audio_ (CAX) earbud model then! Literally looks/feels like lamp cord or medium size speaker cable affixed to a MX500 shell. 

Joking aside I think the thicker/heavier gauged cabling does indeed makes earbuds awfully unruly fit wise and more prone to fall out.


----------



## furyossa (Dec 25, 2021)

WoodyLuvr said:


> You haven't seen/held a higher tiered _Cypherus_ _Audio_ (CAX) earbud model then! Literally looks/feels like lamp cord or medium size speaker cable affixed to a MX500 shell.
> 
> Joking aside I think the thicker/heavier gauged cabling does indeed makes earbuds awfully unruly fit wise and more prone to fall out.


Mr W. what do you think about Blue Diaphragm driver? If they used this bottle for the driver (FANTA SHOKATA) bottle I will probably skip it because I don't like the flavor


----------



## Rary

It's finally time to share the DIY guide i kept teasing for the past months 
It's mostly a collection of all my recent experiments and all knowledge shared in this thread.
I hope it will help more people get into the hobby and maybe inspire more seasoned DIYourselfers too.

Here's the link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PRXhXgAr8N-EiNk3K9Cuqd36LeS5JB7ZuFDAgJbTCm8/edit#gid=0


It's still an ongoing project but most of the work is done. I will keep adding new stuff as i test them.
I want to thank everyone who supported me in the project.
If anyone wants to further contribute or share some opinions feel free to contact me.


----------



## furyossa

Rary said:


> It's finally time to share the DIY guide i kept teasing for the past months
> It's mostly a collection of all my recent experiments and all knowledge shared in this thread.
> I hope it will help more people get into the hobby and maybe inspire more seasoned DIYourselfers too.
> 
> ...


Great job, Mr @Rary . I hope this guide will help anyone interested in this hobby


----------



## calcatreppola

Rary said:


> It's finally time to share the DIY guide i kept teasing for the past months
> It's mostly a collection of all my recent experiments and all knowledge shared in this thread.
> I hope it will help more people get into the hobby and maybe inspire more seasoned DIYourselfers too.
> 
> ...


it looks great...
seems to answer many questions I was asking to myself, in case I decide to try the hobby

thank you


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Dec 27, 2021)

Rary said:


> It's finally time to share the DIY guide i kept teasing for the past months
> It's mostly a collection of all my recent experiments and all knowledge shared in this thread.
> I hope it will help more people get into the hobby and maybe inspire more seasoned DIYourselfers too.
> 
> ...


Holy moly, a most excellent DIY Earbuds guide! Beyond helpful. Really thoughtfully and carefully laid out and put together with outstanding detail. Well done good sir, well done!

In regards to beryllium please read *this post* I made not too long back on the Earbuds Round-Up thread. I am afraid many people misunderstand beryllium thinking that it can cause berylliosis in all it's states (forms) and that this will happen even when simply handling and/or lightly working with it which is actually *far from the case*. Now with that said it is indeed nice to warn people of the potential toxicity and dangers of beryllium fine dust-fumes (they are quite serious) there has never been a documented case of beryllium poisoning from an end state form and/or light processing. I assure you it can be lightly machined and worked with (handled) at no risk.

I myself was exposed to a number of it's forms and states throughout my career, due to my previous profession with the government, and underwent numerous beryllium safety related trainings due to this exposure and those rare potentially dangerous situations involving beryllium which I was also unfortunately exposed to but luckily did not suffer ill effects from (possibly due to under exposure and/or the quick treatment with prednisone). In most cases it usually requires multiple heavy exposures over a long period of time (breathing in and absorbing enough beryllium laced fumes) and even then heavy exposure does not always cause berylliosis which has baffled medical doctors.


----------



## Rary

WoodyLuvr said:


> Holy moly, a most excellent DIY Earbuds guide! Beyond helpful. Really thoughtfully and carefully laid out and put together with outstanding detail. Well done good sir, well done!
> 
> In regards to beryllium please read *this post* I made not too long back on the Earbuds Round-Up thread. I am afraid many people misunderstand beryllium thinking that it can cause berylliosis in all it's states (forms) and that this will happen even when simply handling and/or lightly working with it which is actually *far from the case*. Now with that said it is indeed nice to warn people of the potential toxicity and dangers of beryllium fine dust-fumes (they are quite serious) there has never been a documented case of beryllium poisoning from an end state form and/or light processing. I assure you it can be lightly machined and worked with (handled) at no risk.
> 
> I myself was exposed to a number of it's forms and states throughout my career, due to my previous profession with the government, and underwent numerous beryllium safety related trainings due to this exposure and those rare potentially dangerous situations involving beryllium which I was also unfortunately exposed to but luckily did not suffer ill effects from (possibly due to under exposure and/or the quick treatment with prednisone). In most cases it usually requires multiple heavy exposures over a long period of time (breathing in and absorbing enough beryllium laced fumes) and even then heavy exposure does not always cause berylliosis which has baffled medical doctors.


Thank you for the kind words and for the clarification about beryllium, i will remove all the warnings and if it's not a problem i'd like to add a link to your post. As a DIY guide i just felt like it was important to warn about the potential risks connected to beryllium since you never know what crazy things people might do to their drivers


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Rary said:


> ...if it's not a problem i'd like to add a link to your post...


Of course you may! Cheers and respects.


----------



## ledzep

Just been having a browse on all your work and findings a very interesting thread, keep up the good work !


----------



## Into The Light5

Rary said:


> It's finally time to share the DIY guide i kept teasing for the past months
> It's mostly a collection of all my recent experiments and all knowledge shared in this thread.
> I hope it will help more people get into the hobby and maybe inspire more seasoned DIYourselfers too.
> 
> ...


thx man, this help me so much


----------



## Ferdze

can you also post schematics for different plugs for making adapters? like 4.4mm to 3.5mm and best stores to buy supplies for making them?


----------



## ledzep

Ferdze said:


> can you also post schematics for different plugs for making adapters? like 4.4mm to 3.5mm and best stores to buy supplies for making them?


Pinouts just use Google and parts I'd say AliExpress is your best option


----------



## furyossa

Ferdze said:


> can you also post schematics for different plugs for making adapters? like 4.4mm to 3.5mm and best stores to buy supplies for making them?


DIY Earbuds Parts List


----------



## ian91

Rary said:


> It's finally time to share the DIY guide i kept teasing for the past months
> It's mostly a collection of all my recent experiments and all knowledge shared in this thread.
> I hope it will help more people get into the hobby and maybe inspire more seasoned DIYourselfers too.
> 
> ...



Incredible work!


----------



## Rary

Ferdze said:


> can you also post schematics for different plugs for making adapters? like 4.4mm to 3.5mm and best stores to buy supplies for making them?


I will soon add a DIY Cable section, i just need to do further research on the topic first and try to build some custom cables.
For now i don't have much more to share other than a fast Google search and @furyossa link.


----------



## Ferdze

Rary said:


> I will soon add a DIY Cable section, i just need to do further research on the topic first and try to build some custom cables.
> For now i don't have much more to share other than a fast Google search and @furyossa link.


Thanks bro! I do hope you can make a tutorial for that soon


----------



## re23071998

Rary said:


> I will soon add a DIY Cable section, i just need to do further research on the topic first and try to build some custom cables.
> For now i don't have much more to share other than a fast Google search and @furyossa link.


rary, what is your tuning preference? warmish?


----------



## Rary (Dec 29, 2021)

re23071998 said:


> rary, what is your tuning preference? warmish?


I usually prefer very warm V shapes with an emphasis on bass and thick mids.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Rary said:


> I usually prefer very warm V shapes with an emphasis on bass and thick mids.


A warm W-Shaped then which is Mid-Centric (Mid-Forward) with nice bass and tamed treble. A Bright W-Shaped would be the opposite in regards to bass vs treble.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Rary said:


> It's finally time to share the DIY guide i kept teasing for the past months
> It's mostly a collection of all my recent experiments and all knowledge shared in this thread.
> I hope it will help more people get into the hobby and maybe inspire more seasoned DIYourselfers too.
> 
> ...


Thank you.  It will help me a lot. <3


----------



## assassin10000

Chitty store has some 14.8mm 150Ω redfilm drivers in stock again...

Unfortunately a bit pricey at $56 a pair.


----------



## jogawag (Jan 9, 2022)

I made two MMCX earbuds with N52 Blue Glue 32ohm drivers (wich is heard to be used in Newbsound 32Pro).
I added a horseshoe foam to that shell for tuning. Silver-plated and OFC MMCX cables were connected to them.

The soundstage is wide and the bass is solid but does not interfere with vocals. The sound is wonderfully natural, smooth and rich in detail.

Here are the link of the N52 Blue Glue 32ohm drivers.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33031053227.html


----------



## Ronion

it must be in the air tonight because I just built the same thing and agree about the SQ.  It measured a bit bright from neutral but it’s still smooth and easy to drive.  1V is all you need easily.


----------



## Into The Light5

Good afternoon lads. i hope ure all doing well.

Finally, the cable arrived, here is the physical comparasion of mogami 2893 and 2799
based on the web spec sheet, they share the same 4 core internals, the difference is 2799 made to be an internal cable while 2893 for external cable.
Now waiting for the 32 ohm blue DLC + LCP driver




Outer Diameter : 
mogami 2893 4.8mm
mogami 2799 3.2mm
canare L4E5-AT 5mm

All three internal is 4 core, so it can be used for balance termination


----------



## Ronion

I could be wrong, but those look like they are going to give you a weight problem.  I hope not d/t my affinity for all things Mogami….


----------



## jeejack

Ronion said:


> I could be wrong, but those look like they are going to give you a weight problem.  I hope not d/t my affinity for all things Mogami….


It will pull the wires out of it


----------



## jogawag (Jan 15, 2022)

Rary said:


> I usually prefer very warm V shapes with an emphasis on bass and thick mids.


Hi @Rary.

I have recently created two MMCX earbuds with 32ohm N52 Blue Glu and I am loving the great sound.

I think the sound will be warm V shapes with an emphasis on bass and thick mids by your little tuning.
So I'm looking forward to you creating your own DIY earbuds with the 32ohm N52 Blue Glu and seeing where they rank in Rary's Rankings.

Thanks in advance.
Cheers.


----------



## jeejack

jogawag said:


> Hi @Rary.
> 
> I have recently created two MMCX earbuds with 32ohm N52 Blue Glu and I am loving the great sound.
> 
> ...


We all have them! They are good drivers, nothing special


----------



## Rary (Jan 15, 2022)

jogawag said:


> Hi @Rary.
> 
> I have recently created two MMCX earbuds with 32ohm N52 Blue Glu and I am loving the great sound.
> 
> ...


They are in the chart next to the 300ohm WG, if i can get some good coupons i'll buy them tomorrow. 
For what i know they are in the same league as N50 red rim which i like but isn't anything to call home about.
Regarding my Rankings i should update them soon, i produced and retuned so many earbuds during the holidays, i think my new top favorite is the retuned Super One. In a rivet mod i added dense HS+Y3 on the driver and i sealed the lips with a ton of tape (the 100% metal faceplate Smabat uses have 0 play and doesn't fit the plastic shell properly, that's why i wasn't impressed at first).
For the sound, well..... imagine any well refined earbud but with the loudness button and bass boost button always turned on


----------



## jogawag (Jan 16, 2022)

Rary said:


> They are in the chart next to the 300ohm WG, if i can get some good coupons i'll buy them tomorrow.
> For what i know they are in the same league as N50 red rim which i like but isn't anything to call home about.
> Regarding my Rankings i should update them soon, i produced and retuned so many earbuds during the holidays, i think my new top favorite is the retuned Super One. In a rivet mod i added dense HS+Y3 on the driver and i sealed the lips with a ton of tape (the 100% metal faceplate Smabat uses have 0 play and doesn't fit the plastic shell properly, that's why i wasn't impressed at first).
> For the sound, well..... imagine any well refined earbud but with the loudness button and bass boost button always turned on


We're looking forward to your new Ranking.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Anybody know if the drives of VE ZEN are available to buy on Aliexpress?


----------



## Into The Light5 (Jan 17, 2022)

there is 2 new 15.4mm driver in the chitty store, n52 blue diaphgram and gold diaphgram, the n52 blue have various impedance, while the gold only in 32 ohm. the n52 blue have similiar pcb like lcp diaphgram.


----------



## Rary

Eduardiofilo said:


> Anybody know if the drives of VE ZEN are available to buy on Aliexpress?


They are not available publicly.


Into The Light5 said:


> there is 2 new 15.4mm driver in the chitty store, n52 blue diaphgram and gold diaphgram, the n52 blue have various impedance, while the gold only in 32 ohm. the n52 blue have similiar pcb like lcp diaphgram.


The 300ohm blue driver with a transparent cover looks soo good, if it wasn't so expensive i would try to build an all blue earbud 😭


----------



## Into The Light5

Rary said:


> They are not available publicly.
> 
> The 300ohm blue driver with a transparent cover looks soo good, if it wasn't so expensive i would try to build an all blue earbud 😭


an all blue earbud looks cool! im interested with the gold color driver, since chitty claim the sound field is good. and since i build my 600 ohm papa bery im still searching for a 15.4mm mx500 earbud driver with no housing mod that can outwide the papa bery soundstage


----------



## Rary

Into The Light5 said:


> an all blue earbud looks cool! im interested with the gold color driver, since chitty claim the sound field is good. and since i build my 600 ohm papa bery im still searching for a 15.4mm mx500 earbud driver with no housing mod that can outwide the papa bery soundstage


I wouldn't trust what any seller says, especially on new and expensive drivers.
If you want an earbud with very good soundstage i think you should consider the TG-38s. I never tried it but many praised it for being a good prebuilt with a huge soundstage.


----------



## Into The Light5

Rary said:


> I wouldn't trust what any seller says, especially on new and expensive drivers.
> If you want an earbud with very good soundstage i think you should consider the TG-38s. I never tried it but many praised it for being a good prebuilt with a huge soundstage.


thanks for the advice, i own the tc200 and yeah it does have a huge distance feeling, i wonder how the tg-38s sound


----------



## furyossa

Into The Light5 said:


> thanks for the advice, i own the tc200 and yeah it does have a huge distance feeling, i wonder how the tg-38s sound


tc200 is boring in comparison with tg-38s. Also consider HE150 which is another stage king


----------



## jogawag (Jan 17, 2022)

Into The Light5 said:


> thanks for the advice, i own the tc200 and yeah it does have a huge distance feeling, i wonder how the tg-38s sound


I had the TG-38S for 2 years, 4 years ago, and it was not a great earbuds, just a bit flashy sounding.
For the best budget earbuds with a wide soundstage, I, like @furyossa, would also recommend the HE150, now available from Penon Audio.


----------



## Rary

jogawag said:


> I had the TG-38S for 2 years, 4 years ago, and it was not a great earbuds, just a bit flashy sounding.
> For the best budget earbuds with a wide soundstage, I, like @furyossa, would also recommend the HE150, now available from Penon Audio.


Are you sure you didn't get a fake TG-38s? There are a lot of "DIY" Tingo earbuds around sold as the real deal. Btw i ordered the new HE150, it should be here next week. I'm not the right person to judge soundstage but i expect a lot seeing how many loved it when it was available.


----------



## Into The Light5

furyossa said:


> tc200 is boring in comparison with tg-38s. Also consider HE150 which is another stage king


is the he150 with mx500 housing or the bell shaped? i found 2 version


----------



## jogawag

Rary said:


> Are you sure you didn't get a fake TG-38s? There are a lot of "DIY" Tingo earbuds around sold as the real deal. Btw i ordered the new HE150, it should be here next week. I'm not the right person to judge soundstage but i expect a lot seeing how many loved it when it was available.


Sure, I wasn't writing about the Tingo TG-38S, but recently (?) About the fake TG-38S that had a "TC-200" print.


----------



## jogawag

Into The Light5 said:


> is the he150 with mx500 housing or the bell shaped? i found 2 version


I recommend the HE150 with mx500 housing.
The HE150 Pro with the bell shaped sounds not so good.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 17, 2022)

jogawag said:


> I had the TG-38S for 2 years, 4 years ago, and it was not a great earbuds, just a bit flashy sounding.
> For the best budget earbuds with a wide soundstage, I, like @furyossa, would also recommend the HE150, now available from Penon Audio.


Yup but with mic. Anyway I had to buy them


----------



## furyossa

Into The Light5 said:


> is the he150 with mx500 housing or the bell shaped? i found 2 version


I have both. HE150Pro is the Penon variant of HE150, and we all know that "Pro" mean "$hit" these days. Don't get me wrong, the build is fine (except the cable - tangled hell).
Metal mesh cover definitely change the sound, IMO towards the worse.
BTW ... Tingo TG-38s from Chitty store is legit


----------



## furyossa

jogawag said:


> Sure, I wasn't writing about the Tingo TG-38S, but recently (?) About the fake TG-38S that had a "TC-200" print.


I think I bought mine 3 or 4 years ago and every time I put them in my ears they remind me why I still love them.
The build is top-notch. Silver shell is the best variant of  MX500 on the market as far as acoustics are concerned, the cable is one of the best "single strand" that I tried so far.
@FranQL, @Ronion and @rprodrigues are my "three amigos" who share a similar opinion and who are also very pleased with these buds.


----------



## Into The Light5

furyossa said:


> I have both. HE150Pro is the Penon variant of HE150, and we all know that "Pro" mean "$hit" these days. Don't get me wrong, the build is fine (except the cable - tangled hell).
> Metal mesh cover definitely change the sound, IMO towards the worse.
> BTW ... Tingo TG-38s from Chitty store is legit


which one that have a wider feeling? tg38-s or he150?


----------



## furyossa

Into The Light5 said:


> which one that have a wider feeling? tg38-s or he150?


he150 deeper and tg-38s wider, but don't take my word for it, I didn't compare them for a long time
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16445306


----------



## Into The Light5

furyossa said:


> he150 deeper and tg-38s wider, but don't take my word for it, I didn't compare them for a long time
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/earbuds-round-up.441400/post-16445306


thx man, i think i will take the tg-38s, also is there any noticable difference between the old and new tg-38s version? i mean the old that comes with logo on the splitter and the new one sold by chitty store


----------



## furyossa

Into The Light5 said:


> thx man, i think i will take the tg-38s, also is there any noticable difference between the old and new tg-38s version? i mean the old that comes with logo on the splitter and the new one sold by chitty store


Probably none, they changed cable only. I guess they used the same wire as on the TC-200 which is a bit stiffer compared to the new version


----------



## Into The Light5 (Jan 19, 2022)

First of all thanks to Onezero for the beautifull build, these look clean af! the primary reason i choose him to build my buds, he is just like born as an artist and audio modder/repairman at the same time. he is the one that repaired some local 64audio and campfire owner, he even repaired several highend one! alright enough with his introduction, visit his page if ure curious about him.

as i stated before im using mogami 2799 and these 32ohm carbon nanotube with blue diaphgram, someone here said they ads these as DLC + LCP. the sensitivity is 122dB. The plug, splitter and slider is from PAPRI, i choose the rhodium ver, and without any tuning method, all are stock.

Here are the before and after build :






Since i didnt know about how these sound (not arrived yet), he did mention a few things, the soundstage are huge, the high is detailed without any excessive, and a slightly less bass and a very good vocal. if i ever want some change, he accept to tune it.


----------



## jeejack

Into The Light5 said:


> First of all thanks to Onezero for the beautifull build, these look clean af! the primary reason i choose him to build my buds, he is just like born as an artist and audio modder/repairman at the same time. he is the one that repaired some local 64audio and campfire owner, he even repaired several highend one! alright enough with his introduction, visit his page if ure curious about him.
> 
> as i stated before im using mogami 2799 and these 32ohm carbon nanotube with blue diaphgram, someone here said they ads these as DLC + LCP. the sensitivity is 122dB. The plug, splitter and slider is from PAPRI, i choose the rhodium ver, and without any tuning method, all are stock.
> 
> ...


Great job!
Were you afraid to do them yourself?


----------



## Into The Light5

jeejack said:


> Great job!
> Were you afraid to do them yourself?


i dont have some of the tools yet, so far i only soldered 1 buds, but if it need some cable assembly, im not yet there, i still dont know some of the method, like how to attach the splitter to the cable, and some additional parts like heatshrink, strain relief etc


----------



## furyossa

Into The Light5 said:


> i dont have some of the tools yet, so far i only soldered 1 buds, but if it need some cable assembly, im not yet there, i still dont know some of the method, like how to attach the splitter to the cable, and some additional parts like heatshrink, strain relief etc


Come on, bro, it's about time to take "stuff into your own hands".  
BTW ... nice build you have there


----------



## Into The Light5

furyossa said:


> Come on, bro, it's about time to take "stuff into your own hands".
> BTW ... nice build you have there


haha thanks! yea i will try to make one by my own


----------



## re23071998

furyossa said:


> I think I bought mine 3 or 4 years ago and every time I put them in my ears they remind me why I still love them.
> The build is top-notch. Silver shell is the best variant of  MX500 on the market as far as acoustics are concerned, the cable is one of the best "single strand" that I tried so far.
> @FranQL, @Ronion and @rprodrigues are my "three amigos" who share a similar opinion and who are also very pleased with these buds.


yeaa, the housing does make a difference


----------



## Into The Light5

oh boi my tg38s is finally here, it is indeed as expected, wider than my tc200, bass is more present and lively, exactly the same as what @furyossa said. is there a way to achieve soundstage like this? is more driver vent hole = wider soundstage? i keep thinking about that since i got my tg38s yesterday


----------



## re23071998 (Jan 20, 2022)

Into The Light5 said:


> oh boi my tg38s is finally here, it is indeed as expected, wider than my tc200, bass is more present and lively, exactly the same as what @furyossa said. is there a way to achieve soundstage like this? is more driver vent hole = wider soundstage? i keep thinking about that since i got my tg38s yesterday


i think its the housing of tg38s.
ive tried some drivers and they tends to sound more open with this housing.

i like the 130 berry + thickest white tuning cotton + upside down horse shoe in the tg38s housing.
my best sounding build this far



Spoiler: img


----------



## FranQL

re23071998 said:


> i think its the housing of tg38s.
> ive tried some drivers and they tends to sound more open with this housing.
> 
> i like the 130 berry + thickest white tuning cotton + upside down horse shoe in the tg38s housing.
> ...



Depending on what you're looking for, this shell also makes the sound brighter, the silver shells you can buy don't (IMO) have the quality of Tingo OG either.


----------



## furyossa (Jan 20, 2022)

Into The Light5 said:


> oh boi my tg38s is finally here, it is indeed as expected, wider than my tc200, bass is more present and lively, exactly the same as what @furyossa said. is there a way to achieve soundstage like this? is more driver vent hole = wider soundstage? i keep thinking about that since i got my tg38s yesterday



OG Tingo shell uses special coating (metallic) which makes the shell quite firm and changes its acoustic characteristics.
As @FranQL  said, it’s hard to find a similar shell on sale (Ali), they’re mostly fake.
Now about the stage. It mostly depends on the driver, but also shell (size and vent system) and filters.
There is no particular rule how to tune the stage, you'll need to experiment because every driver is different.
For example, TG-38s produces small micro details in the treble that give the soundstage a unique character.
The harmony of other frequencies is also very important, what I mean is that nothing is overly dominant, like forward mids, bright treble, strong mid-bass etc., that would jeopardize stage effect.


re23071998 said:


> i like the 130 berry + thickest white tuning cotton + upside down horse shoe in the tg38s housing.
> my best sounding build this far


Yup, 130ohm Bery is a great driver which responds well to various tuning. I experiment with many shells so far, mostly metal shells with different cavity size, and Tingo shell of course, where it sounds the best, for now. BTW ... in my inventory you can find all 4 experiments


----------



## Ronion

Into The Light5 said:


> haha thanks! yea i will try to make one by my own


It's so easy you can't imagine.


----------



## Ronion

Into The Light5 said:


> oh boi my tg38s is finally here, it is indeed as expected, wider than my tc200, bass is more present and lively, exactly the same as what @furyossa said. is there a way to achieve soundstage like this? is more driver vent hole = wider soundstage? i keep thinking about that since i got my tg38s yesterday


One of the best buds out there and the soundstage king as far as I've heard.  For the price, it should be in everyone's collection.  You could spend a lot more on a lot less.


----------



## jeejack (Jan 25, 2022)

My favorite 32 ohm driver is bio composite (DIY)


----------



## Leonid56

jeejack said:


> Мой любимый драйвер на 32 Ом-биокомпозит (DIY)


Добрый день! И не говорите мне, что это за демпфер и куда они его положили. Завтра я заберу своих водителей с почты.


----------



## Into The Light5

A 2nd pair of my own soldered buds, i use these 18ohm composite driver, they sound so clear and have an impactfull bass, the quantity is enough for my taste, kind of v shape. The technicalities is so good,  slightly lower than tg38s!


----------



## jeejack

Leonid56 said:


> Добрый день! И не говорите мне, что это за демпфер и куда они его положили. Завтра я заберу своих водителей с почты.


🧐🤓


----------



## Leonid56

jeejack said:


> 🧐🤓


Извините, плохой перевод в Google. Какой демпфер вы установили? Y1-Y6?


----------



## FranQL

Leonid56 said:


> Извините, плохой перевод в Google. Какой демпфер вы установили? Y1-Y6?




what the colleague means by means of icons is that he does not speak your language, neither do I, the truth


----------



## Leonid56

FranQL said:


> what the colleague means by means of icons is that he does not speak your language, neither do I, the truth


Sorry, bad Google translation. What kind of damper did you install?  Y1-Y6?


----------



## Into The Light5

Man the soundstage of those tingo is just unbelievable, he150 a bit dissappointing at the price, the width is even narrower than some cheap diy driver, but yeah the depth is deep and above average. The tg38s should be in every bud enthusiast collection IMO


----------



## FranQL

Into The Light5 said:


> Man the soundstage of those tingo is just unbelievable, he150 a bit dissappointing at the price, the width is even narrower than some cheap diy driver, but yeah the depth is deep and above average. The tg38s should be in every bud enthusiast collection IMO


TG38s it's crazy value for the price


----------



## Into The Light5

FranQL said:


> TG38s it's crazy value for the price


Agree i just hope tingo still produce some high end one


----------



## chavez

Into The Light5 said:


> Man the soundstage of those tingo is just unbelievable, he150 a bit dissappointing at the price, the width is even narrower than some cheap diy driver, but yeah the depth is deep and above average. The tg38s should be in every bud enthusiast collection IMO



Try to burn in HE150 for couple of hours. It helps a lot.


----------



## jeejack

Leonid56 said:


> Sorry, bad Google translation. What kind of damper did you install?  Y1-Y6?


None! Ultra thin HS, but i think Y2 is ok


----------



## furyossa (Jan 26, 2022)

Into The Light5 said:


> Man the soundstage of those tingo is just unbelievable, he150 a bit dissappointing at the price, the width is even narrower than some cheap diy driver, but yeah the depth is deep and above average. The tg38s should be in every bud enthusiast collection IMO


They cost similar. Both buds require some serious break-in, especially HE150. These drivers are not new, and they probably lay in the box for a very long time.


----------



## Leonid56

jeejack said:


> None! Ultra thin HS, but i think Y2 is ok


Thank you


----------



## Rary

I agree, my HE150 changed completely after just 2-3 hours of burn-in, at first it was thin and weird but then it turned into a unique V shape with sub bass boost.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Two holes on the front side of the earbuds.

1.- More bass (mid-bass i think)
2.- More soundstage
3.- The profile tends tobe warmer than before
4.- By the way, some instruments sounds more clear than beofre in lots of songs.

This mood took my Vidos to the next level


----------



## furyossa

Eduardiofilo said:


> Two holes on the front side of the earbuds.
> 
> 1.- More bass (mid-bass i think)
> 2.- More soundstage
> ...


Is this driver bleeding?


----------



## Eduardiofilo

furyossa said:


> Is this driver bleeding?


mmm no, i just tried to center my drill. As you can see my holes aren't perfect. My main intention was to experimente with two holes in that specific region.


----------



## LaughMoreDaily

furyossa said:


> Is this driver bleeding?


It's lipstick from when he kissed his mod.


----------



## sfrsfr

Eduardiofilo said:


> Two holes on the front side of the earbuds.
> 
> 1.- More bass (mid-bass i think)
> 2.- More soundstage
> ...


why two holes? one is not enough?


----------



## jogawag

Eduardiofilo said:


> mmm no, i just tried to center my drill. As you can see my holes aren't perfect. My main intention was to experimente with two holes in that specific region.


I would like to know the depth of the center drill hole (thickness of the shell), so please let me know.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

sfrsfr said:


> why two holes? one is not enough?


You are right, one could be enough. But, I wanted to know how vidos would sound with two holes


----------



## Eduardiofilo

jogawag said:


> I would like to know the depth of the center drill hole (thickness of the shell), so please let me know.


The shell is that Vido's earbuds use. The depth? I will take a photo inside the shell tomorrow and will send it to you.


----------



## jogawag

Eduardiofilo said:


> The shell is that Vido's earbuds use. The depth? I will take a photo inside the shell tomorrow and will send it to you.


Sorry, I just want to know the thickness (mm) of that part of the shell.
So I don't need a photo.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

jogawag said:


> Sorry, I just want to know the thickness (mm) of that part of the shell.
> So I don't need a photo.


It is 1.5mm


----------



## sfrsfr (Jan 30, 2022)

Eduardiofilo said:


> You are right, one could be enough. But, I wanted to know how vidos would sound with two holes


I plan to do some experiments with just one vent hole. Keeping it simple, just not to forget to sand the sharp edges....
Using Vidos for experiments is a good idea!


----------



## Into The Light5

Man these carbon nanotube driver is too dark for my taste, mine is the 300 ohm version, the mids sound kinda veiled, and the PET 32 ohm Pepsi ain't better either, sounds a bit thin on the stock tuning. But then the Pepsi driver for me a bit better in technicalities than 600 ohm driver. I like the 18 ohm composite one better tonally.


----------



## ihaveears (Feb 9, 2022)

I fell for the buying cheap premade earbuds addiction, and now I'm curious about DIY's. Is Rary's guide pretty up to date? What are some drivers I should look at for price to performance ratio? I can drive anything so that's no issue, and I'm fine with any extent of modding. I have tools and I'm handy.
Is it reasonable to cannibalize all my stock iem cables I never use for diy earbuds?
I also have a lot of spare mmcx cables, is there any downside to putting plugs on the earbud shells? I notice not many people do removable cables.
Anything I should know before making my first?


----------



## Rary (Feb 9, 2022)

ihaveears said:


> I fell for the buying cheap premade earbuds addiction, and now I'm curious about DIY's. Is Rary's guide pretty up to date? What are some drivers I should look at for price to performance ratio? I can drive anything so that's no issue, and I'm fine with any extent of modding. I have tools and I'm handy.
> Is it reasonable to cannibalize all my stock iem cables I never use for diy earbuds?
> I also have a lot of spare mmcx cables, is there any downside to putting plugs on the earbud shells? I notice not many people do removable cables.
> Anything I should know before making my first?


Hi, the drivers list in the guide is more or less up to date, i will soon add a VC repairing guide and the resistor mod guide when i get some free time to write them.

What kind of sound signature do you like? Budget?
Price/performance wise i recommend trying 32ohm 19-21 Red dot (3-4$) and 150ohm Blue Glue (10$). As a beginner i would suggest to skip all high impedance drivers since they are usually harder to tune and don't offer major improvements in sound quality.
Feel free to salvage all the cables you like, as long as they aren't too thick (od<2mm, the thinner the better).
The stem in mx500 shells functions as a bass port, plugging it with mmcx connectors/thick cables/shrink tube isn't usually a good idea since it would end up killing most of the bass. For other types of shells the only downside to adding mmcx is the increased amount of work and the price.


----------



## ihaveears (Feb 9, 2022)

Perfect those are the kinds of cables I have, the thinner kind you typically get with chifi iem's.
I'm not sure what my preference for signature with earbuds is yet, so I'm thinking I'll make a few cheap ones and get a feel. I feel like what I want is something on the neutral side with good treble quality but in my limited experience with earbuds I sort of feel like I need more bass than with iem's to compensate for the lack of isolation. With iem's and headphones I like neutral signatures.
Is that usually the case, where I'd want a bit of bass boost for it to sound flat with earbuds? I'm pretty new to earbuds.
I guess, how should I go about it if I want to try out different sounds cheap before I dive more into it? Anything 20 or less seems safe until I know more about what I'm doing. I'll try both the ones you rec'd, since they're cheap. What would you do tuning/mods wise to each one? My dremel-fu is good.
Having extra cheap earbuds around is always good. I lose them out in the woods a lot... Maybe I should paint my shells hi-vis orange


----------



## Rary (Feb 9, 2022)

It's hard to compare earbuds to iems/headphones, the amount of bass you need and the perceived signature is determined by how well the shells fit your ears.
There is no such a thing as neutral earbuds, drivers are usually classified as bassy / balanced / bright.

19-21 red dot is usually perceived as V shaped with good sub-bass, 150ohm BG is balanced with a slight midbass bump. This is a comparison between the two in stock builds. (Red dots tuned with only a medium horse shoe on the shells vs Faaeal Rosemary which is really close to a 150BG with only the preapplied foam)



Keep in mind that my rig adds more bass (+5db?) and treble (+2-3dbs?), the real graph would be much flatter.

Once you get a good quality driver like 150BG you can play with tuning foams and holes to get whatever signature fits your ears.
Just as an example you can see below 3 very different tunings for the same driver.



Rosemary tuning is very warm but enjoyable, 150BG+3 small holes in the shell is more balanced with a very pleasant low end and 150BG+rivet mod is exactly tuned to my preference (midbass bump + shifted 2-3khz peak).
MX500 shells don't fit me perfectly so i usually require more bass presence than average and i'm very sensitive to treble peaks.

I suggest trying with 150BG in stock configuration first and then add or remove tuning foams to see what changes.
To get a more "neutral" tuning i suggest trying with 2 medium horse shoes (remove the preapplied foam which isn't really good and add one medium HS on the driver and one medium HS on the shell).
If you want some treble cannons you should try some "vocal" drivers or anything labelled as "female poison" but i warn you, they will have 0 bass and insane treble levels.

For a first purchase just buy the usual 5 pairs of black shells + tuning foams (medium HS and white tuning filters) and a bunch of cheap drivers (any 19-21, EMX, 150BG).
With 20$ you should be able to squeeze out 2-3 cheap earbuds and some hours of fun .


----------



## furyossa (Feb 9, 2022)

ihaveears said:


> Having extra cheap earbuds around is always good. I lose them out in the woods a lot... Maybe I should paint my shells hi-vis orange


Or ...  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32790735406.html


----------



## ihaveears (Feb 9, 2022)

I suggest trying with 150BG in stock configuration first and then add or remove tuning foams to see what changes.


Rary said:


> To get a more "neutral" tuning i suggest trying with 2 medium horse shoes (remove the preapplied foam which isn't really good and add one medium HS on the driver and one medium HS on the shell).
> For a first purchase just buy the usual 5 pairs of black shells + tuning foams (medium HS and white tuning filters) and a bunch of cheap drivers (any 19-21, EMX, 150BG).
> With 20$ you should be able to squeeze out 2-3 cheap earbuds and some hours of fun .


Awesome this is exactly what I'm gonna do. 150BG especially looks appealing to me and with how cheap the 19-21s are I'll have to try some too at the least. I'll order some of those, shells, foams, filters and some of the trig rain foams.
Are smoke shells fine? I can't find any for sale with covers, but they would match the aesthetic of a lot of my cable extras. I don't mind spending more I meant like $20 per earbud's about max until I know what I'm doing, not 20 total


----------



## furyossa (Feb 9, 2022)

ihaveears said:


> Are smoke shells fine? I can't find any for sale with covers, but they would match the aesthetic of a lot of my cable extras.


They are worst.
This is a much better offer. They come with covers and horseshoe foams
Blue - White - Black https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981145439.html
Red - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001668210442.html
30pcs Horseshoe (H.S.) (mixed) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002301165327.html
40pcs White Tuning Filter (W.T.F) (mixed) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002454970487.html


----------



## ihaveears (Feb 9, 2022)

furyossa said:


> They are worst.
> This is a much better offer. They come with covers and horseshoe foams
> Blue - White - Black https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981145439.html
> Red - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001668210442.html


Thanks I'll stick with the blacks from that first link then!
For papers should I order mixed?


----------



## furyossa

ihaveears said:


> Thanks I'll stick with the blacks from that first link then!
> For papers should I order mixed?


Yes, if you plan to play with different tuning in the future. Also this is really nice offer but they are all medium density HS https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000741731272.html.
If you want to build a few pairs only, then you not need that many


----------



## furyossa

ihaveears said:


> Thanks I'll stick with the blacks from that first link then!


Blue and Red use same black plastic as a base, mat silver shell use white plastic as a base. Black plastic has better acoustic characteristics.


----------



## ihaveears (Feb 9, 2022)

furyossa said:


> Blue and Red use same black plastic as a base, mat silver shell use white plastic as a base. Black plastic has better acoustic characteristics.


Thanks this is good to know!
I'm going to start with the 150bg, EMX500, and a few of the 19-21's. Should make around 10 earbuds, so I can have a lot of back-ups, some sacrificial ones to try mods/tuning on, and a few pairs to give out to friends.
Thanks for all the help, both of you!
..Wait one last question, I may as well get rivets now, what length do I want? These are fine? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001479952592.html


----------



## Rary (Feb 10, 2022)

ihaveears said:


> Thanks this is good to know!
> I'm going to start with the 150bg, EMX500, and a few of the 19-21's. Should make around 10 earbuds, so I can have a lot of back-ups, some sacrificial ones to try mods/tuning on, and a few pairs to give out to friends.
> Thanks for all the help, both of you!
> ..Wait one last question, I may as well get rivets now, what length do I want? These are fine? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001479952592.html


Yes, M2.4x10 is the right size, or M2.4x12 if you are ok with a little sanding and you want to have more flexibility with tuning and lenght.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

What method do you use to colored foams?


----------



## jeejack

ihaveears said:


> Thanks this is good to know!
> I'm going to start with the 150bg, EMX500, and a few of the 19-21's. Should make around 10 earbuds, so I can have a lot of back-ups, some sacrificial ones to try mods/tuning on, and a few pairs to give out to friends.
> Thanks for all the help, both of you!
> ..Wait one last question, I may as well get rivets now, what length do I want? These are fine? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001479952592.html


Put this driver among the orders 😉
Flat Earphones Speaker Unit DIY 15.4mm Bio-composite Diaphragm Drivers MX500 DIY
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOHn64U


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Hi, what shell is more comfortable MX500 or MX760?


----------



## jeejack

Eduardiofilo said:


> Hi, what shell is more comfortable MX500 or MX760?


MX760


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Hello,  what was the thinner foam that you have put on your earbuds? And where did you buy them?


----------



## jeejack

Eduardiofilo said:


> Hello,  what was the thinner foam that you have put on your earbuds? And where did you buy them?


Like i say on FB 😉 
50pcs/lot Earphone Tuning Cotton with Glue for 14-16mm Speaker Unit for mx500 mx760 Flat Headphones DIY
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mND9s56


----------



## tgx78

Rary said:


> It's hard to compare earbuds to iems/headphones, the amount of bass you need and the perceived signature is determined by how well the shells fit your ears.
> There is no such a thing as neutral earbuds, drivers are usually classified as bassy / balanced / bright.
> 
> 19-21 red dot is usually perceived as V shaped with good sub-bass, 150ohm BG is balanced with a slight midbass bump. This is a comparison between the two in stock builds. (Red dots tuned with only a medium horse shoe on the shells vs Faaeal Rosemary which is really close to a 150BG with only the preapplied foam)
> ...










Been using 150BG with a great success. Is there a way to improve its bass extension?


----------



## Setmagic (Feb 28, 2022)

Interesting placement od mccx connectors @tgx78 
I assume You create bass reflex tunnel?

I'm playing with 150BG and 64TI for now.
64 have so much deep sub bass bit can't be as precise as 150BG.
I'm wonder how I can force 64 to have so much details as 150.


----------



## Rary

tgx78 said:


> Been using 150BG with a great success. Is there a way to improve its bass extension?


Beautiful earbuds!
The best way to get more sub bass is to add some kind of bass tube/port and play with the inner diameter and lenght until you get the right amount of mid bass and sub bass. Since you placed the connector on top of the shell you can use the stem as a bass port. I would also suggest to try black shells since they usually have better bass (and sound) compared to transparent ones.



Setmagic said:


> Interesting placement od mccx connectors @tgx78
> I assume You create bass reflex tunnel?
> 
> I'm playing with 150BG and 64TI for now.
> ...


I doubt you can get 150BG SQ out of 64Ti, they just aren't as high quality as the BGs and there's no tuning that can fix that.


----------



## Setmagic (Feb 28, 2022)

Rary said:


> I doubt you can get 150BG SQ out of 64Ti, they just aren't as high quality as the BGs and there's no tuning that can fix that.


I am not even close, nice result is to place foams/paper on different direction and leave holes in driver on the bottom.
Bass port on the shell extend bass/midmas?

I think I will focuse on 150BG now.


----------



## Laylow33

Eduardiofilo said:


> Hi, what shell is more comfortable MX500 or MX760?


Hi, I prefer the MX760. It feels more comfortable to me.


----------



## furyossa

Laylow33 said:


> Hi, I prefer the MX760. It feels more comfortable to me.


MX760, DP100, Hybrids ... these are 3 shells which have better comfort and fit than  MX500. As when it comes to tuning options, MX500 is still the king. I prefer hybrids because they are something in between MX500 and DP100, both comfort and tuning wise. They are compatible with MX760 drivers, with MX500 you need to use the trick


----------



## ihaveears (Mar 14, 2022)

What's the best cable with microphone for earbuds, in terms of microphone quality and/or good controls? I have an old small laptop that only accepts 4 pole combo jack without a dongle or external dac which got me thinking it'd be convenient to make some earbuds or recable a vido for it. I don't have anything with a mic I usually avoid them.


----------



## agawa

furyossa said:


> MX760, DP100, Hybrids ... these are 3 shells which have better comfort and fit than  MX500. As when it comes to tuning options, MX500 is still the king. I prefer hybrids because they are something in between MX500 and DP100, both comfort and tuning wise. They are compatible with MX760 drivers, with MX500 you need to use the trick


Hi, I have a technical question regarding fixing out of phase earbuds, MX500 shell w/ fixed cable? Can I just switch the +/- wires in one channel? Thanks


----------



## jogawag

agawa said:


> Hi, I have a technical question regarding fixing out of phase earbuds, MX500 shell w/ fixed cable? Can I just switch the +/- wires in one channel? Thanks


You just switch the +/- wires in one channel. That's all.


----------



## CBTlover223

Hello, I am trying to make some IEMs with dynamic drivers for the first time and I am a bit overwhelmed with the increased complexity that comes with tuning them. Can someone give me a general rundown of how different tuning methods (Size of back volume and front volume, venting the back volume, different foams/papers) affect the sound signature of DDs? Thanks.


----------



## Into The Light5

Hi folks, just tried the 150 ohm bg and n52. Noticed the n52 have thicker hs foam, probably twice than the generic hs foam.


----------



## furyossa

Into The Light5 said:


> Hi folks, just tried the 150 ohm bg and n52. Noticed the n52 have thicker hs foam, probably twice than the generic hs foam.


Remove stock HS and use white tuning filter (W_T_F)  instead  and put some HS on shell


----------



## Into The Light5

furyossa said:


> Remove stock HS and use white tuning filter (W_T_F)  instead  and put some HS on shell


This for n52 or 150 bg? Which white filter? Y2- Y5?


----------



## Rary (Apr 2, 2022)

Into The Light5 said:


> This for n52 or 150 bg? Which white filter? Y2- Y5?


150BG, medium foam on the shell + Y3 or Y4 should be fine. N52 should sound good even whitout changing the pre-applied foam although it is usually a good idea to always replace it with  a more standard HS.


----------



## Into The Light5

Rary said:


> 150BG, medium foam on the shell + Y3 or Y4 should be fine. N52 should sound good even whitout changing the pre-applied foam although it is usually a good idea to always replace it with  a more standard HS.


Alright noted i will try this tuning, thanks!!


----------



## Into The Light5

Applying a small water decal is sure testing my patience lmao. I cant imagine how frustrating it is to recoil a driver


----------



## Into The Light5

The rary's and furyossa's tuning suggestion is crazy damn good, it is imo better than my stock rosemary. Mind you that the rosemary is okayish and a bit too dark for my taste. Black white final sound is a lot more balanced accross the frequency, perhaps a U shaped soundsig? Listening to these black white is addicting!

The black white was supposed to be given for my friend and this final sound make me think twice lol. There is a lot more to be explored for me, thank you for the guide! 😊


----------



## Fourier transformer

I opened the graphen 400 ohm 15.4mm speakers and the film/membran/diaphragm doesn't look like graphen to me, more like any membrane.
The resistance is true.

I bought it here https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005...o2fra&spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef5e5brYQvcT


----------



## Rary

Fourier transformer said:


> I opened the graphen 400 ohm 15.4mm speakers and the film/membran/diaphragm doesn't look like graphen to me, more like any membrane.
> The resistance is true.
> 
> I bought it here https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005...o2fra&spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef5e5brYQvcT


My pair from GHXAmp has the same membrane. I don't know if it's a special kind of graphene coating or if it's just plain PET and fake advertisement, the only thing i'm sure is that it's still one of the worst DIY drivers i tried and it took countless attempts to make it sound acceptable.


----------



## furyossa

Fourier transformer said:


> I opened the graphen 400 ohm 15.4mm speakers and the film/membran/diaphragm doesn't look like graphen to me, more like any membrane.
> The resistance is true.
> 
> I bought it here https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005...o2fra&spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef5e5brYQvcT


it's graphene, don't worry


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Fourier transformer said:


> I opened the graphen 400 ohm 15.4mm speakers and the film/membran/diaphragm doesn't look like graphen to me, more like any membrane.
> The resistance is true.
> 
> I bought it here https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005...o2fra&spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef5e5brYQvcT





furyossa said:


> it's graphene, don't worry


Graphene being one of the thinnest and most conductive materials on earth is super thin to the point of being two-dimensional! Despite it's extreme thinness and nearly transparent chicken-wire like looking structure it can be seen with the naked eye but in this particular application, over a driver diaphragm, it is extremely difficult to detect. I concur with *@furyossa* that it is more than likely graphene than not and with *@Rary *that they sound like crap!


----------



## Fourier transformer (Apr 4, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Graphene being one of the thinnest and most conductive materials on earth is super thin to the point of being two-dimensional! Despite it's extreme thinness and nearly transparent chicken-wire like looking structure it can be seen with the naked eye but in this particular application, over a driver diaphragm, it is extremely difficult to detect. I concur with *@furyossa* that it is more than likely graphene than not and with *@Rary *that they sound like crap!


I measured the resistance of the driver diaphragm and it is not conductive with my multimeter, a resistance greater than 100M ohm. A carbon pencil lead was conductive. The diaphragm is more stiff than the 150 ohm blue glue driver. For the sound, all i can tell is that it clearly need burning, the first hours were harsh, bass were lacking.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (Apr 4, 2022)

Fourier transformer said:


> I measured the resistance of the driver diaphragm and it is not conductive with my multimeter, a resistance greater than 100M ohm. A carbon pencil lead was conductive. The diaphragm is more stiff than the 150 ohm blue glue driver. For the sound, all i can tell is that it clearly need burning, the first hours were harsh, bass were lacking.


You do realize how thin the graphene layer that we are talking about is, right? We are talking about extremely low mass here in comparison to ultra dense and quite heavy graphite in a pencil... the mass difference between the two is beyond disproportionate in this case. I wouldn't expect to measure any level of conductive-ness of graphene to be that near to pencil lead with a simple civilian-grade multimeter. I suspect it would take an ultra-sensitive and ultra-expensive laboratory grade instrument to detect such difference in conductivity... maybe I am way off in my thinking and experience. Also, graphene of this grade and application is not terribly expensive in comparison to other widely used diaphragm materials such as beryllium or titanium... even some ceramics and newer bio materials are costlier than graphene but still are heavily used without hesitation and at quite reasonable manufacturing costs. So I be really surprised that they be lying about it being a graphene diaphragm but I do accept there is always that small possibility that they are. LOL!

To others: What say you? I think it could be quite an interesting topic for discussion as many new materials and grades are appearing.


----------



## Fourier transformer (Apr 4, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> You do realize how thin the graphene layer that we are talking about is, right? We are talking about extremely low mass here in comparison to ultra dense and quite heavy graphite in a pencil... the mass difference between the two is beyond disproportionate in this case. I wouldn't expect to measure any level of conductive-ness of graphene to be that near to pencil lead with a simple civilian-grade multimeter. I suspect it would take an ultra-sensitive and ultra-expensive laboratory grade instrument to detect such difference in conductivity... maybe I am way off in my thinking and experience. Also, graphene of this grade and application is not terribly expensive in comparison to other widely used diaphragm materials such as beryllium or titanium... even some ceramics and newer bio materials are costlier than graphene but still are heavily used without hesitation and at quite reasonable manufacturing costs. So I be really surprised that they be lying about it being a graphene diaphragm but I do accept there is always that small possibility that they are. LOL!
> 
> To others: What say you? I think it could be quite an interesting topic for discussion as many new materials and grades are appearing.


In the product description it is not written "graphene layer" but "made of copper coil graphene diaphragm material" or just "Graphene Diaphragm" in the title. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002614331536.html
What would be the point to add a one-atom-graphene-layer for bulk mechanical properties ? And apparently sheets of graphene of micron and mm range do exist.

With my multimeter i can measure the resistance of a carbon pen trace on paper, more than enough for our speaker diaphragm.

False advertisings on chifi products are common.


----------



## Into The Light5

Have anyone tried these? It is 150 ohm, probably shoonth use these with their pricier buds and change the driver cover? Im curious, if only they have that dp100 driver cover model

15.4mm Speaker unit 150ohms mx500 cover send shell 2pcs(1pair)
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mszcuMA


----------



## Rary

Into The Light5 said:


> Have anyone tried these? It is 150 ohm, probably shoonth use these with their pricier buds and change the driver cover? Im curious, if only they have that dp100 driver cover model
> 
> 15.4mm Speaker unit 150ohms mx500 cover send shell 2pcs(1pair)
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mszcuMA


I bought them last week, they should be really good since they are Shoonth-like drivers, Titanium and 150ohm! 
The price is very high (the usual 2x Chitty tax), i hope they are worth the high asking price, i need something good after the huge disappointment that were the 14.8mm 120Berys.

It's definitely not the driver they use in more expensive Shoonths since it's the same 2$ driver you find in the cheaper version with a resistor.


----------



## Into The Light5

Rary said:


> I bought them last week, they should be really good since they are Shoonth-like drivers, Titanium and 150ohm!
> The price is very high (the usual 2x Chitty tax), i hope they are worth the high asking price, i need something good after the huge disappointment that were the 14.8mm 120Berys.
> 
> It's definitely not the driver they use in more expensive Shoonths since it's the same 2$ driver you find in the cheaper version with a resistor.






These look similiar, some local store sell these for around $2.6 a pair, but the seller didnt mention any driver specs, no impedance no freq graph no nothing, and the review said they are kinda bright/neutral. And I noticed one difference, the pink dot is on the pcb, and the one from chitty is on outer side.

These shoonth driver models remind me of 2 blox diy driver sold by local blox importer, and it comes with a modified mx500 housing




Imma wait for your updates when its arrive


----------



## Rary

Into The Light5 said:


> These look similiar, some local store sell these for around $2.6 a pair, but the seller didnt mention any driver specs, no impedance no freq graph no nothing, and the review said they are kinda bright/neutral. And I noticed one difference, the pink dot is on the pcb, and the one from chitty is on outer side.
> 
> These shoonth driver models remind me of 2 blox diy driver sold by local blox importer, and it comes with a modified mx500 housing
> 
> ...



There are countless Shoonth-like drivers (Foster drivers?), this is the 32ohm version with DP100 covers, the placement of the dot is very inconsistent.





I will share my opinion as soon as i get them.


----------



## assassin10000

Rary said:


> I bought them last week, they should be really good since they are Shoonth-like drivers, Titanium and 150ohm!
> The price is very high (the usual 2x Chitty tax), i hope they are worth the high asking price, i need something good after the huge disappointment that were the 14.8mm 120Berys.
> 
> It's definitely not the driver they use in more expensive Shoonths since it's the same 2$ driver you find in the cheaper version with a resistor.



Try the 14.8mm 32Ω Ti drivers. 

Better than the 40Ω, Unless you want a warm sig with treble that rolls off.


----------



## Rary

I already have the 14.8mm 32ohm Ti, they are very addicting but they are also fatiguing treble cannons. I was hoping that the 120Berys could be a more balanced alternative with 15.4mm 130Bery level of SQ but they are just a muddy mess, flat and with a very weird unpleasant tonality. 
I'll try to swap shells and faceplates eventually since the bundled ones aren't very good and no tuning tricks were able to fix any of the shortcomings.

I think i won't invest more time and money in 14.8mm drivers, i like the form factor  but 15.4mm offer better value and variety. 
High quality 15.4mm drivers in small metal shells are probably the only solution for people with small ears like me.


----------



## thedjkhalid (Apr 9, 2022)

Newbie posting here, just wondering if anyone has done a build with the same driver in an mx500, hybrid shell, and a dp100 shell?

Was wondering which is the best for comfort, without compromising on acoustics.  I have used a few mx500 earbuds, and they fit fine, but are not the most comfortable I've had on.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Hi to all the people!

Can you recommend me high impedance drivers please?

If you can attach the link of the driver that would be nice . I will appreciate any recomendation a lot guys, seriously a lot


----------



## furyossa

Eduardiofilo said:


> Hi to all the people!
> 
> Can you recommend me high impedance drivers please?
> 
> If you can attach the link of the driver that would be nice . I will appreciate any recomendation a lot guys, seriously a lot


300ohm BG: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32966949381.html
150ohm BG: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002096357615.html
120ohm LCP: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002539743673.html
130ohm Bery: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047315914.html
etc.
You can explore by your self in the same store or on other stores.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

furyossa said:


> 300ohm BG: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32966949381.html
> 150ohm BG: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002096357615.html
> 120ohm LCP: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002539743673.html
> 130ohm Bery: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047315914.html
> ...


Thank you my friend. Much appreciated


----------



## Into The Light5

Eduardiofilo said:


> Hi to all the people!
> 
> Can you recommend me high impedance drivers please?
> 
> If you can attach the link of the driver that would be nice . I will appreciate any recomendation a lot guys, seriously a lot


Im new here but here is my personal opinion of several high impedance diy driver that ive tried

This 3 driver shares a very similiar soundsig which is balanced and slightly minor difference, but definitely noticeable

400 ohm graphene, the flatest of 3, slightly towards balance, maybe rolled off low and high
500 ohm beryllium, thicker sound, warmer than both
600 ohm beryllium, balance and slightly boost on low and high


Then there are these cheaper driver

150 ohm blue glue, stock sound is warm, punchy bass, slightly dark for my taste
300 ohm CNT, carbon nano tube, definitely dark, very similiar of ve zen 2.0, if u like the zen u probably like this driver

For the link you can check rary diy guides


----------



## Rary

Into The Light5 said:


> Have anyone tried these? It is 150 ohm, probably shoonth use these with their pricier buds and change the driver cover? Im curious, if only they have that dp100 driver cover model
> 
> 15.4mm Speaker unit 150ohms mx500 cover send shell 2pcs(1pair)
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mszcuMA



I received the 150ohm Shoonths, i've been listening and retuning them for a couple of days and i must say that i like them but for the price i wouldn't recommend them.
The stock sound is balanced, SQ is below average for the price, imaging is good except for the center channel which feels very blurred.

In addition to the drivers they sent me 3 thinner than usual HS, 4 foams and 2 engraved shells instead of the shiny ones present in the photos (the worst kind, really low quality, don't use them).
The drivers are just standard PET, not Titanium as i hoped and Chitty didn't even bother checking them since i received one unit with a crooked and almost detached PCB which i fixed with glue.






 



My initial impression was that they sounded surprisingly well balanced but too thin and bass light. After graphing them i couldn't but confirm what i heard.
The FR follows my target curve perfectly but lacks energy below 200hz. That bump around 200hz is a little annoying since it makes bass punchy but weightless.





I tried retuning them with white tuning filters and medium HS but the stock sound is definitely the best (Stock= normal shells with the provided HS).
I suggest using them with donut foams.





Some kind of bass enanching mod is needed but the rest of the FR is almost perfect. 
They are probably the best tuned stock drivers i tried (minus the anemic bass), i just wish they had better technicalities, at least on par with the big boys in the price range (120LCP, 130Bery).

They would be a solid rec if they were around 10$ bundled with the advertised shells but for the current price i would rather spend 2$ more and buy the LCPs.


----------



## Into The Light5 (Apr 19, 2022)

Rary said:


> I received the 150ohm Shoonths, i've been listening and retuning them for a couple of days and i must say that i like them but for the price i wouldn't recommend them.
> The stock sound is balanced, SQ is below average for the price, imaging is good except for the center channel which feels very blurred.
> 
> In addition to the drivers they sent me 3 thinner than usual HS, 4 foams and 2 engraved shells instead of the shiny ones present in the photos (the worst kind, really low quality, don't use them).
> ...


Nice and thanks for the review! Yea i noticed some parts and drivers are double the price in chitty store. Maybe these driver need some sort of mod? I heard blox do some driver mod in their buds, i dont know how or which parts was changed. Maybe if you could figure out how to mod the drivers, they might turn out to be crazy good. Anyway just for confirmation the similiar driver i posted before is different, i asked the seller and turned out to be 32 ohm, so it is totally a different driver from the chitty store

Edit : maybe the titanium part was the dome?


----------



## dupham

Hi, I am new DIYer. I am using Faaeal Rosemary, I try to mod rivet mod for this earbuds, but I can not open housing ? Anyone opened Rosamery Housing please help me. thanks all.


----------



## Rary

Into The Light5 said:


> Nice and thanks for the review! Yea i noticed some parts and drivers are double the price in chitty store. Maybe these driver need some sort of mod? I heard blox do some driver mod in their buds, i dont know how or which parts was changed. Maybe if you could figure out how to mod the drivers, they might turn out to be crazy good. Anyway just for confirmation the similiar driver i posted before is different, i asked the seller and turned out to be 32 ohm, so it is totally a different driver from the chitty store
> 
> Edit : maybe the titanium part was the dome?


The dome isn't Ti either, i can see the light passing through the 4 little holes in the center near the pcb.
I just started experimenting with driver coatings but i wouldn't risk sacrificing anything more exepensive than a Vido driver. A resistor mod could help but so far my experiments didn't show much difference in sound, if any. I think i will just add a big tube that should fix the bass problem while keeping the sweet mids and highs unchanged. 
Don't get me wrong, they are good drivers and they absolutely obliterate any branded earbuds i tried aside from the Samsaras. DIY just spoiled me so hard 



dupham said:


> Hi, I am new DIYer. I am using Faaeal Rosemary, I try to mod rivet mod for this earbuds, but I can not open housing ? Anyone opened Rosamery Housing please help me. thanks all.


I would suggest against opening any Faaeal earbuds, their glue is very strong and you risk destroying both the drivers and shells.
For very hard to remove glue you need to warm it up first and then use some tool to pry it open like a bottle opener. To warm the glue you can use a heat gun or a hot surface, as a last resort you can put the shells in a platic bag and then put the bag in a glass full of hot water (make sure the bag has no holes).
But, once again, you should avoid any risky procedure unless you really don't like how they sound or you need to fix something inside.

You should instead buy a pair of 150BGs, some standard black or painted shells and a braided cable.


----------



## dupham

already modded rosemary with rivet, the result is amazing, I got good vocal and soundtage.


----------



## furyossa

Rary said:


> The dome isn't Ti either, i can see the light passing through the 4 little holes in the center near the pcb.
> I just started experimenting with driver coatings but i wouldn't risk sacrificing anything more exepensive than a Vido driver. A resistor mod could help but so far my experiments didn't show much difference in sound, if any. I think i will just add a big tube that should fix the bass problem while keeping the sweet mids and highs unchanged.
> Don't get me wrong, they are good drivers and they absolutely obliterate any branded earbuds i tried aside from the Samsaras. DIY just spoiled me so hard
> 
> ...


@Rary you already have an successor


----------



## Rary

dupham said:


> already modded rosemary with rivet, the result is amazing, I got good vocal and soundtage.


Great work!


----------



## sfrsfr

dupham said:


> already modded rosemary with rivet, the result is amazing, I got good vocal and soundtage.


Great work! So what did you do to open the Rosemary??


----------



## furyossa

sfrsfr said:


> Great work! So what did you do to open the Rosemary??


Probably this method


----------



## dupham

sfrsfr said:


> Great work! So what did you do to open the Rosemary??


I destroy housing because I wait too long driver from Alliexpress. Pay to win )


----------



## furyossa

dupham said:


> I destroy housing because I wait too long driver from Alliexpress. Pay to win )


We’ve all been through that and this can only motivate you to do more new stuff.
If you are interesting for DIY parts, this is the list of some stores where you can find everything that you need


----------



## dupham

furyossa said:


> We’ve all been through that and this can only motivate you to do more new stuff.
> If you are interesting for DIY parts, this is the list of some stores where you can find everything that you need


Thank you very much. I knew about these shop, but there are come from Alliexpress. Now, I am from Vietnam, so all order from Alliexpress will be wait at least 2 months. I can not wait.


----------



## Ustos

Hello ALL. Has anyone listened to these https://a.aliexpress.com/_AM3tIn  drivers? They have real 14.8mm, so real yuin cases are needed.
I really wanted at least one worthy yuin headphones for myself. Beryllium 120 I did not like, although they sang well with my Colorfly c10
These drivers are some of the best I've heard so far (I have beryllium, titanium, red and purple dot, smabat 120, monk sm)
Maybe someone listened to them, I would like to read his opinion.


----------



## NVHurng

dupham said:


> Thank you very much. I knew about these shop, but there are come from Alliexpress. Now, I am from Vietnam, so all order from Alliexpress will be wait at least 2 months. I can not wait.


Hi, i'm from VN, too 
You can search "ak audio" or "fengru" on shopee 
This link 
https://shopee.vn/akaudio.vn?smtt=0.118657899-1650462210.9

https://shopee.vn/fengru.vn?smtt=0.118657899-1650462246.9


----------



## nomadik

Hi everyone, a newbie here. Can you guys recommend me the best 14.8mm driver in terms of technicalities (resolution/clarity/detail/separation/etc)? I'm curious to know how a high quality driver should sound.

The reason I'm asking this is because I can't really tell the technical sq difference between my b40 and lbbs. But, tonality wise I can tell their difference. Is it because of my "untrained ears" or they aren't really a night and day different?

Thank you


----------



## assassin10000

nomadik said:


> Hi everyone, a newbie here. Can you guys recommend me the best 14.8mm driver in terms of technicalities (resolution/clarity/detail/separation/etc)? I'm curious to know how a high quality driver should sound.
> 
> The reason I'm asking this is because I can't really tell the technical sq difference between my b40 and lbbs. But, tonality wise I can tell their difference. Is it because of my "untrained ears" or they aren't really a night and day different?
> 
> Thank you



Best I've heard is the 150Ω red film pk1. Hard to get now.

Second is the 32Ω ti.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> Best I've heard is the 150Ω red film pk1. Hard to get now.
> 
> Second is the 32Ω ti.


It's not hard to get anymore but "hard" to pay  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2034991204.html
This driver is from Siemens SL-45 and I like it more than "Redfilm" for certain genres https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003404095688.html
It's slightly brighter than redfilm and minus a few dB in the bass region.


----------



## dupham

Hi, anyone can recommend me best cable and 3.5 mm jack for masterpiece earbud mx500 ? My edition is givet mod but the cable is not really good.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> It's not hard to get anymore but "hard" to pay  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2034991204.html
> This driver is from Siemens SL-45 and I like it more than "Redfilm" for certain genres https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003404095688.html
> It's slightly brighter than redfilm and minus a few dB in the bass region.



Ouch, yeah. I haven't been keeping up on prices/availability for the last couple months.

I think I paid a bit less than that for 2 pairs.


Link to the 14.8mm 32Ω Ti
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005001686050644.html


----------



## thedjkhalid

Hi, what are some recommended EQs for the Faaeal Rosemary?  I purchased one recently since it went on sale (the 2.5mm version).


Sounds okay stock atm but I feel like there could be some room for improvement.


----------



## Fourier transformer (May 2, 2022)

dupham said:


> Hi, anyone can recommend me best cable and 3.5 mm jack for masterpiece earbud mx500 ? My edition is givet mod but the cable is not really good.


30 awg silicone and you twist it
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005001520813250.html

and for the jack this one is good : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4001057132807.html
or https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4000028415708.html but the outer plastic is crap and they probably will not send you the gold version


----------



## furyossa

Fourier transformer said:


> 30 awg silicone and you twist it
> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005001520813250.html
> 
> and for the jack this one is good : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4001057132807.html
> or https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4000028415708.html but the outer plastic is crap and they probably will not send you the gold version


The cables and jack are not of good qualityy, safer solution will be to buy assembled cable from RY Audio store and call it a day


----------



## furyossa (May 2, 2022)

thedjkhalid said:


> Hi, what are some recommended EQs for the Faaeal Rosemary?  I purchased one recently since it went on sale (the 2.5mm version).
> 
> 
> Sounds okay stock atm but I feel like there could be some room for improvement.


Wrong thread. We rarely use EQ here, this is a place if you want to make your own buds and tune it with different filters.
On Earbuds Round-Up thread, you will probably find a better answer.
Also, you can visit @Sam L thread and ask him about EQ for Rosemary.


----------



## thedjkhalid

furyossa said:


> Wrong thread. We rarely use EQ here, this is a place if you want to make your own buds and tune it with different filters.
> On Earbuds Round-Up thread, you will probably find a better answer.
> Also, you can visit @Sam L thread and ask him about EQ for Rosemary.


thank you for the suggestion, will head over there.


----------



## rprodrigues

dupham said:


> already modded rosemary with rivet, the result is amazing, I got good vocal and soundtage.


But... Rosemary already have good vocals and good soundstage with stock tuning.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> But... Rosemary already have good vocals and good soundstage with stock tuning.


And you know what's my opinion about stock tuning


----------



## Fourier transformer

furyossa said:


> The cables and jack are not of good qualityy, safer solution will be to buy assembled cable from RY Audio store and call it a day


Oh, those are the wires with enamel insulation, i find them horrible.


----------



## furyossa

Fourier transformer said:


> Oh, those are the wires with enamel insulation, i find them horrible.


They are not perfect, but they durable and practical for buds


----------



## Nxfb

Hi,
Has anyone tried those 1., 2. earbuds head ?
Thank you very much


----------



## Fourier transformer

furyossa said:


> They are not perfect, but they durable and practical for buds


Less practical for soldering than the silicone wire for sure. At RY Audio store the cable cost 3 euros, you can buy an entire earphone/iem at this price.


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Fourier transformer said:


> 30 awg silicone and you twist it
> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005001520813250.html
> 
> and for the jack this one is good : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4001057132807.html
> or https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4000028415708.html but the outer plastic is crap and they probably will not send you the gold version


Hello and welcome to the rabbit hole.

As much as varying opinion and experience is respected on this thread I do hope you realize and acknowledge that you are chatting with someone who is extremely knowledgeable and experienced with DIYing Earphones. Your posts are coming off a tad too curt and slightly too argumentative for argument's sake. Maybe being a little bit more friendly in making your point would be more conducive and for sure would be more engaging (welcoming) to us all.

I imagine that you do know and realize that *UL3135 Flexible Silicone Wire* was designed and intended for *internal wiring** only*... right? We don't understand why you would recommend to a newbie internal type wiring especially for an external application requiring grand wire movements; heavy usage; and exposure to elements. Makes no sense really good chap.




Fourier transformer said:


> Oh, those are the wires with enamel insulation, i find them horrible.


Be helpful; tell us why you find them to be horrible. Maybe your prep is all wrong (quite possible). Maybe you bought too low of quality before. This type of wiring is commonly used for audio cabling and for many good and practical reasons. Also, this particular brand is well respected for quality and highly durable cables... have you tried this brand before? You might just be surprised.



Fourier transformer said:


> Less practical for soldering than the silicone wire for sure. At RY Audio store the cable cost 3 euros, you can buy an entire earphone/iem at this price.


Less practical?! 

Good soldering is all about proper prep. If one takes their time, plans well, and properly preps the wire to be soldered (e.g. properly removing the insulation of any material type from around the wire) there is ultimately very little difference. Yes, stiffer and/or lower gauge will prove to be a bit more difficult to work with but with soldering clips, stands, and/or holders in play we are only talking about a few seconds of extra time... if that.

Too expensive?!

Yes, an earphone can be bought at Euros 3 but in most cases than not it would not be worth listening to for any length of time and doubtfully would it offer a well-timbred sound signature at that price point. Don't get me wrong, I am definitely not a "cable guy" and I will always steer towards a budget cable... just not at basement-level bargain prices. You get what you pay for and if you get too cheap you may end up spending more to get it right.


----------



## Into The Light5

For a budget cable, you can try mogami, canare, i use mogami 2799 & 2893. But its stiff, for practicality i dont recommend. For a newbie i recommend a pre finished one.


----------



## furyossa (May 3, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Hello and welcome to the rabbit hole.
> 
> As much as varying opinion and experience is respected on this thread I do hope you realize and acknowledge that you are chatting with someone who is extremely knowledgeable and experienced with DIYing Earphones. Your posts are coming off a tad too curt and slightly too argumentative for argument's sake. Maybe being a little bit more friendly in making your point would be more conducive and for sure would be more engaging (welcoming) to us all.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Mr Woody. I'm glad that you noticed these posts.
I don't come here to argue with anyone, especially not someone I don't know and haven't seen his DIY work.
I'm not an expert for cables, but I do test many budget cables and make custom cables for myself.
RY cables are most used cables in DIY community, and I didn't see anyone who complain about them.
Wires that they use are not different from other cables that we see from other brands.
What I like is that RY offers ready-made cables and cables for those who like to use their plugs and other parts.
Last time I used these wires (8-cores), which are the same that RY uses for their cable.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980678826.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32999177534.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32999976516.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000805071434.html
I like 4-cores so ...





IMO lower gauge or any cable with more than 6-core are not really practical for buds, especially for shells with long stem.
Sure, they look nice and all that but ...
PK and DOCOMO shells without modification can't use these cables.
For other shells, this is not a problem but then we run into other problems:
- the weight of the buds increases and this greatly affects the comfort
- soldering is much harder
- airflow inside shell is not ideal


----------



## furyossa

Into The Light5 said:


> For a budget cable, you can try mogami, canare, i use mogami 2799 & 2893. But its stiff, for practicality i dont recommend. For a newbie i recommend a pre finished one.


Post some examples


----------



## rprodrigues

I'm going to test these poor cables...

www.aliexpress.com/item/32990487650.html


I will let you know if they are any good.


----------



## Fourier transformer (May 3, 2022)

WoodyLuvr said:


> Hello and welcome to the rabbit hole.


Did i speak about the sound quality of the cable ?

If the OP don't want DIY his cable he can buy a 2 euros iem/earphone and cut the cable.

At RY Earphone Store they use useless splitters which add weight to the cable, one good reason to avoid them.

and Silicone is good, i found the PTFE 28 awg way too rigid.


----------



## Into The Light5

furyossa said:


> Post some examples




black

white

the black-white


Some of these aint that good, avoid the 1st and 2nd or any similiar physical form, they develop cracks in time. The 3rd is good, however one small thing, the color pattern is random from plug to the splitter.


----------



## furyossa

rprodrigues said:


> I'm going to test these poor cables...
> 
> www.aliexpress.com/item/32990487650.html
> 
> ...


I have this one



It's not that rigid, if you plan to twist two cores, lover part become a bit stiffer. I started to build "paracord" but I didn't finish it


----------



## furyossa

Into The Light5 said:


> blackwhitethe black-white
> 
> 
> Some of these aint that good, avoid the 1st and 2nd or any similiar physical form, they develop cracks in time. The 3rd is good, however one small thing, the color pattern is random from plug to the splitter.


Yup, first two are bad. 
B&W looks nice and OFC, I f.... love Faaeal “caramel” cable.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 3, 2022)

Fourier transformer said:


> Did i speak about the sound quality of the cable ?
> 
> If the OP don't want DIY his cable he can buy a 2 euros iem/earphone and cut the cable.
> 
> ...


Now you have completely lost us... it just dawned on me that maybe English is not your native tongue and you are using a translator. Thus explaining this misunderstanding we are having with you... apologies, if that is indeed the case. Maybe try rewording what you are trying to say and reenter it into the translator; that may provide a better translation for us to read.



Fourier transformer said:


> Did i speak about the sound quality of the cable ?


Where exactly did any of us mention or state that we thought you were speaking about sound quality? We were (are) all discussing the physical side of the cables and what is best for DIYing Earbuds.



Fourier transformer said:


> If the OP don't want DIY his cable he can buy a 2 euros iem/earphone and cut the cable.


Yes, the OP could! Great suggestion... it is indeed something many DIYers like to do!



Fourier transformer said:


> At RY Earphone Store they use useless splitters which add weight to the cable, one good reason to avoid them.


Splitters may be useless to you but many "active" people (especially commuters and walkers) find them quite useful and are willing to sacrifice some weight gain to have the option.



Fourier transformer said:


> and Silicone is good, i found the PTFE 28 awg way too rigid.


Yes, silicone insulated wire can be good (quite good in fact) but only if the said cabling (wiring) is *rated for "*_*external use"*_. The wire type that you recommended and linked is unfortunately only for "*internal wiring*" which should be avoided for DIYing earbuds for many different reasons but *extremely limited durability* being the main one.

Agreed, certain brands of Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) @ 28 AWG can be quite rigid; no argument there mate!


----------



## WoodyLuvr

Into The Light5 said:


> For a budget cable, you can try mogami, canare, i use mogami 2799 & 2893. But its stiff, for practicality i dont recommend. For a newbie i recommend a pre finished one.


Concur! I had a great success with Mogami when I was DIYing headphones but it is indeed hard for a novice to work with initially.


----------



## Fourier transformer

WoodyLuvr said:


> Where exactly did any of us mention or state that we thought you were speaking about sound quality? We were (are) all discussing the physical side of the cables and what is best for DIYing Earbuds.





WoodyLuvr said:


> Hello and welcome to the rabbit hole.


When one speaks about rabbit hole for cable it implies sound quality.


WoodyLuvr said:


> Splitters may be useless to you but many "active" people (especially commuters and walkers) find them quite useful and are willing to sacrifice some weight gain to have the option.


Their splitters are useless because they use 4 separate wires at the jack.


WoodyLuvr said:


> Yes, silicone insulated wire can be good (quite good in fact) but only if the said cabling (wiring) is *rated for "*_*external use"*_. The wire type that you recommended and linked is unfortunately only for "*internal wiring*" which should be avoided for DIYing earbuds for many different reasons but *extremely limited durability* being the main one.


In the description, "Feature : wear resistance" so it is good.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 3, 2022)

Fourier transformer said:


> When one speaks about rabbit hole for cable it implies sound quality.
> 
> Their splitters are useless because they use 4 separate wires at the jack.
> 
> In the description, "Feature : wear resistance" so it is good.


Oh my, no that was simply a warm welcome to all things related to earbuds. We tend to call any earbud haunt (threads) the rabbit hole as it can be a quite deep venture. So no, I promise you we were not implying anything about cable sound quality there.

*UL3135 rated wire* was designed and intended for *internal wiring** only* in *fully enclosed* items such as headlamps, home appliances, electronic devices and certain mechanical machines. The mentioned wear resistance is not for or at an* external use level* I can promise you that. UL3135 rated wire should never be recommended (especially to novices) for external applications as it tends to fail mechanically (physically)... and in some countries that would even be out-of-code and for good reason. It is all about forming good habits and learning to use the right materials for different applications.


----------



## FranQL

I'm considering buying these cables, opinion?

https://a.aliexpress.com/_vMIJjB

https://a.aliexpress.com/_uhxRCv


----------



## WoodyLuvr

FranQL said:


> I'm considering buying these cables, opinion?
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_vMIJjB
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_uhxRCv


I would lean towards the gold colored wire as it will age better. Both look excellent though.


----------



## furyossa

FranQL said:


> I'm considering buying these cables, opinion?
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_vMIJjB
> 
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_uhxRCv


Hermano, 30m and you are good to go.  This is better option than BT which has a range of 10m


----------



## DBaldock9

I've got one of these ivipQ-65 Pure Silver and Single Crystal Copper cables [ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003688146295.html ] ordered, to replace the cable on my "Blur hALF/hALF", since the black insulation on the stock copper wires is disintegrating where it's in contact with my skin (wearing the cables over-the-ear).  The stock cable is 4-Strands (two per earbud), and the new cable is 8-Strands (four per earbud) - so I'll probably have to combine the 4 wires to 2 wires, and reduce the total cross-section, so they'll fit into the shells.  I'll also have to cut-back or remove the earhook heat shrink.


----------



## FranQL (May 3, 2022)

DBaldock9 said:


> I've got one of these ivipQ-65 Pure Silver and Single Crystal Copper cables [ https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003688146295.html ] ordered, to replace the cable on my "Blur hALF/hALF", since the black insulation on the stock copper wires is disintegrating where it's in contact with my skin (wearing the cables over-the-ear).  The stock cable is 4-Strands (two per earbud), and the new cable is 8-Strands (four per earbud) - so I'll probably have to combine the 4 wires to 2 wires, and reduce the total cross-section, so they'll fit into the shells.  I'll also have to cut-back or remove the earhook heat shrink.



in my opinion i think you can pass the wires, and connect all 4 wires, for example:


----------



## FranQL

furyossa said:


> Hermano, 30m and you are good to go.  This is better option than BT which has a range of 10m



with 30 meters I would never need to buy cable again, I calculate that 60 cables can be made with that.... the intention is to buy only two meters, one for a stupid thing that I have in mind and the other meter for a DIY that deserves it .


----------



## Fourier transformer

WoodyLuvr said:


> I would lean towards the gold colored wire as it will age better. Both look excellent though.


Is it a joke ?


----------



## FranQL

Fourier transformer said:


> Is it a joke ?



oh no, in fact i bought it now, didn't you like it? don't buy it, stick with the silicone


----------



## Fourier transformer

FranQL said:


> oh no, in fact i bought it now, didn't you like it? don't buy it, stick with the silicone


Cool; enjoy your yellow wires.


----------



## jeejack

WoodyLuvr said:


> I would lean towards the gold colored wire as it will age better. Both look excellent though.


Agree!


Fourier transformer said:


> Cool; enjoy your yellow wires.


Thank you !


----------



## rprodrigues

furyossa said:


> I have this one
> 
> It's not that rigid, if you plan to twist two cores, lover part become a bit stiffer. I started to build "paracord" but I didn't finish it



I will build 2mm (connector side) to 1.5mm (phone side) cables.

How do they compare to HE150 stock cable (Penon's version)  regarding rigidity?


----------



## dupham

Hi i see this modding driver in my forum. what is this method ? I think they draw curve line on this diaphragm


----------



## NVHurng

Thank everyone, so much. I have learned a lot here
This is my earbubs diy, graphene 400ohm in jcally ep02 shell


----------



## furyossa

NVHurng said:


> Thank everyone, so much. I have learned a lot here
> This is my earbubs diy, graphene 400ohm in jcally ep02 shell


Interesting way to make the cable, It's a bit short but it looks ok. You can twist the wire, than use shrink tube and eartip ring part over.


----------



## Rary

dupham said:


> Hi i see this modding driver in my forum. what is this method ? I think they draw curve line on this diaphragm


It looks like a simple broken driver, what am i missing? 



NVHurng said:


> Thank everyone, so much. I have learned a lot here
> This is my earbubs diy, graphene 400ohm in jcally ep02 shell


Very unique and interesting build, good job.


----------



## assassin10000

furyossa said:


> Interesting way to make the cable, It's a bit short but it looks ok. You can twist the wire, than use shrink tube and eartip ring part over.



Probably meant to be used with a bluetooth device like the es100, btr5k, etc.



Rary said:


> It looks like a simple broken driver, what am i missing?



I think he means the reliefs stamped into the driver 'surround' which allows it to move or flex easier.


----------



## furyossa

assassin10000 said:


> I think he means the reliefs stamped into the driver 'surround' which allows it to move or flex easier.


yup that will probably work for bigger drivers, for small drivers, I doubt


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Hi, i'm new in this hobby of DIY earbuds, but i have decided to do my first DIY high impedance earbuds. I picked these drivers: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005....0.0.3dab3c00Qs8FMs&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp and these cables: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4000....0.0.3dab3c00Qs8FMs&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp

What do you think is a good election?


----------



## jeejack

Eduardiofilo said:


> Hi, i'm new in this hobby of DIY earbuds, but i have decided to do my first DIY high impedance earbuds. I picked these drivers: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005....0.0.3dab3c00Qs8FMs&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp and these cables: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4000....0.0.3dab3c00Qs8FMs&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp
> 
> What do you think is a good election?


Honestly, no! They're very hard to tune and you risk ruining them. If you want a safe high impedance driver try 150 ohm BG. But before that @WoodyLuvr  has a set of essential questions.


----------



## WoodyLuvr (May 22, 2022)

Eduardiofilo said:


> Hi, i'm new in this hobby of DIY earbuds, but i have decided to do my first DIY high impedance earbuds. I picked these drivers: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005....0.0.3dab3c00Qs8FMs&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp and these cables: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4000....0.0.3dab3c00Qs8FMs&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp
> 
> What do you think is a good election?





jeejack said:


> Honestly, no! They're very hard to tune and you risk ruining them. If you want a safe high impedance driver try 150 ohm BG. But before that @WoodyLuvr  has a set of essential questions.


As always, very sage advice from *@jeejack*. His recommendation for the 150Ω Blue Glue DIY driver is indeed an excellent one... most especially for a beginner. This driver is quite easy to work with (e.g. large unobstructed soldering pads/points and of robust build it does seem to handle heat very well; though do still be careful with that soldering iron!). This driver has mad tuning potential (an array of possible signatures) to say the very least!

Here is a *link* to the _essential questions_ that *@jeejack* is referring to.

Good luck! Be patient. Try and try again. Be creative and willing to experiment. And do let us know about your progress.


----------



## rprodrigues (May 22, 2022)

Eduardiofilo said:


> Hi, i'm new in this hobby of DIY earbuds, but i have decided to do my first DIY high impedance earbuds. I picked these drivers: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005....0.0.3dab3c00Qs8FMs&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp and these cables: https://es.aliexpress.com/item/4000....0.0.3dab3c00Qs8FMs&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp
> 
> What do you think is a good election?


Believe what @jeejack told you.

Provided that you have a good source ("strong" enough amp or amp/dac combo), this is a good start point (if not the best): https://aliexpress.com/item/1005002097400569.html

You may also start with drivers as https://aliexpress.com/item/1005004024155707.html if you don't have a good (strong) amplifier.

Have fun!


----------



## Eduardiofilo

rprodrigues said:


> Believe what @jeejack told you.
> 
> Provided that you have a good source ("strong" enough amp or amp/dac combo), this is a good start point (if not the best): https://aliexpress.com/item/1005002097400569.html
> 
> ...


I got the atom amp i think is enough to move those 300 ohm drivers


----------



## Eduardiofilo

jeejack said:


> Honestly, no! They're very hard to tune and you risk ruining them. If you want a safe high impedance driver try 150 ohm BG. But before that @WoodyLuvr  has a set of essential questions.





WoodyLuvr said:


> As always, very sage advice from *@jeejack*. His recommendation for the 150Ω Blue Glue DIY driver is indeed an excellent one... most especially for a beginner. This driver is quite easy to work with (e.g. large unobstructed soldering pads/points and of robust build it does seem to handle heat very well; though do still be careful with that soldering iron!). This driver has mad tuning potential (an array of possible signatures) to say the very least!
> 
> Here is a *link* to the _essential questions_ that *@jeejack* is referring to.
> 
> Good luck! Be patient. Try and try again. Be creative and willing to experiment. And do let us know about your progress.


You said "HARD TO TUNE" i didn't understan. What are you talking about? Could you guys explain me, please?


----------



## Ronion

“Hard to tune” just means that it either doesn’t respond well to simple tuning foam and paper mods or that its frequency response is unusual in some way making normal tuning efforts counter productive.  That 150Ohm and there’s a 32 Ohm with a red dot and large solder tabs which are easy to tune.  The 150 Ohm is found in buds costing $150—also in much cheaper buds as well like the FAEAAL Rosemary (where it’s not particularly well tuned).  It’s very good even just assembled with the included parts.  It can certainly be improved, but it’s hard to go wrong with it.  The red dot will get you a bit more bass, but less resolution and soundstage.  It’s not bad in those departments either, but not as good as the 150.  The 32Ohm Blue Glue mentioned earlier comes in $75 buds with just stock tuning also.  I prefer the red dot to it, but it can be tuned to sound much better than its stock tuning, but requires advanced tuning methods to get it to sound its best.  No matter what the treble isn’t the kindest and its soundstage is pretty flat.  It is incredibly efficient though and that makes it nice for certain situations.  Just get the 150Ohm and be happy you have probably the best bargain in audio.  
the stock configuration actually measures better than the $150 version and I prefer it.  It can still sound very good with a 1V source like a dongle…. Maybe it’s a bit better with 2V.


----------



## jeejack

Ronion said:


> “Hard to tune” just means that it either doesn’t respond well to simple tuning foam and paper mods or that its frequency response is unusual in some way making normal tuning efforts counter productive.  That 150Ohm and there’s a 32 Ohm with a red dot and large solder tabs which are easy to tune.  The 150 Ohm is found in buds costing $150—also in much cheaper buds as well like the FAEAAL Rosemary (where it’s not particularly well tuned).  It’s very good even just assembled with the included parts.  It can certainly be improved, but it’s hard to go wrong with it.  The red dot will get you a bit more bass, but less resolution and soundstage.  It’s not bad in those departments either, but not as good as the 150.  The 32Ohm Blue Glue mentioned earlier comes in $75 buds with just stock tuning also.  I prefer the red dot to it, but it can be tuned to sound much better than its stock tuning, but requires advanced tuning methods to get it to sound its best.  No matter what the treble isn’t the kindest and its soundstage is pretty flat.  It is incredibly efficient though and that makes it nice for certain situations.  Just get the 150Ohm and be happy you have probably the best bargain in audio.
> the stock configuration actually measures better than the $150 version and I prefer it.  It can still sound very good with a 1V source like a dongle…. Maybe it’s a bit better with 2V.


Perfect 👍🍺


----------



## Setmagic (May 27, 2022)

*DIY Workroom*
presents

*3D PRINTED BUDS*




Best filaments and resin for buds ☺️
© 3D Design by Robar
Time to run some test!​


----------



## nomadik

assassin10000 said:


> Best I've heard is the 150Ω red film pk1. Hard to get now.
> 
> Second is the 32Ω ti.





furyossa said:


> It's not hard to get anymore but "hard" to pay  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2034991204.html
> This driver is from Siemens SL-45 and I like it more than "Redfilm" for certain genres https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003404095688.html
> It's slightly brighter than redfilm and minus a few dB in the bass region.


Thank you for the recommendation, much appreciated! Sorry for my late response. Unfortunately that redfilm is pretty expensive for me.

Are there any 15.4mm driver that has the same or better sound quality than the redfilm? Maybe someone can compare the redfilm with the 130ohm berry?


----------



## MattsMad

Does anyone have an aliexpress link for a pair of DIY buds that already has a the driver attached? I just want something would good imaging and soundstage for FPS gaming.


----------



## BobBeats (Jun 28, 2022)

MattsMad said:


> Does anyone have an aliexpress link for a pair of DIY buds that already has a the driver attached? I just want something would good imaging and soundstage for FPS gaming.


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32757165225.html (head-fi.org breaks the link)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32823569005.html (head-fi.org breaks the link)

Like what, a DIY EMX500?

Great midbass punch and sparkly highs. It's used in most well regarded cheap earbuds -Rary

You could go over to Earbuds Round-up for some earbud reviews/recommendations. I think they have a form somewhere to fill out for help.

List of DIY earbud makers.


----------



## MattsMad

How do I unbreak the links? Or maybe DM me?


----------



## BobBeats

If you select and copy the text it should work, just don't copy the link. E.g. If you were to type in the text as shown, then it should bring you to the correct ali listing.


----------



## MattsMad

subwoof3r said:


> New tonight fun mod (featuring the really good 32 ohm PET drivers (which are still my second favorite best drivers)
> 
> Looking good on those wood shells, and they adjust perfectly (no need to fix them with any glue, they almost snap directly)
> Also, the sound is extremely good on them! will keep them in this configuration for a while.


Got a link to the cables?


----------



## jeejack

MattsMad said:


> Got a link to the cables?


Earphone Audio Cable 1.2M Silver-coated Copper Wire Earphone Maintenance Wire for DIY Replacement Headphone Audio Cable #20
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLMPa9c


----------



## MattsMad

jeejack said:


> Earphone Audio Cable 1.2M Silver-coated Copper Wire Earphone Maintenance Wire for DIY Replacement Headphone Audio Cable #20
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLMPa9c


Woah they are cheap.


----------



## MattsMad

jeejack said:


> Earphone Audio Cable 1.2M Silver-coated Copper Wire Earphone Maintenance Wire for DIY Replacement Headphone Audio Cable #20
> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLMPa9c


Only problem is I dont have the tools necessary to actually make put the earbuds I want together. So If you have a link for completed cable that can simply be plugged into the earbuds that are skinny like yours, that would be great. Or if you know a person who runs a DIY earbud service on here maybe I can have him or her do a custom build.


----------



## 232tomas232

hi guys) i have vido blue and white. I really like them, my hands itch, I want to experiment with them, can I somehow upgrade them, improve the sound, or is this a bad idea?)


----------



## MattsMad

assassin10000 said:


> ^this.
> 
> Also scuff the shell with 400-600 grit sandpaper or scotch-brite pads. The glossy surface is not as good for adhesion as a rougher matte finish.


Stupid question but is it possible to buy the buds- and just tape around the sensitive areas and spray paint after sanding? I do not know how to put earbuds together using all the materials so buying readymade and then customizing seems to be my only option.


----------



## assassin10000

MattsMad said:


> Stupid question but is it possible to buy the buds- and just tape around the sensitive areas and spray paint after sanding? I do not know how to put earbuds together using all the materials so buying readymade and then customizing seems to be my only option.



Yes. If you tape off, plug or cover any areas that need to be (vents, holes, ports, cable, connectors, driver cover/grill, etc.).


----------



## Gifting (Jul 10, 2022)

Hi everyone, I’m a newbie when it comes to this. This is my 2nd DIY earbud, but I find the exposed wires too long for the shell. The knot is as far up as it can go. If I snap the casing together, the raw wires might touch. It might be a silly question, but would this affect sound quality, would it be noticeable?


----------



## assassin10000

Gifting said:


> Hi everyone, I’m a newbie when it comes to this. This is my 2nd DIY earbud, but I find the exposed wires too long for the shell. The knot is a far up as it can go. If I snap the casing together, the raw wires might touch. It might be a silly question, but would this affect sound quality, would it be noticeable?


The wires are typically coated with varnish which acts as a very thin insulator. Unless you've stripped it clean, it should be fine.

I usually just turn the driver half to one rotation, as I put the driver on.


----------



## Gifting (Jul 10, 2022)

assassin10000 said:


> The wires are typically coated with varnish which acts as a very thin insulator. Unless you've stripped it clean, it should be fine.
> 
> I usually just turn the driver half to one rotation, as I put the driver on.


Thank you @assassin10000! I bought three pairs of drivers and am assembling them today. The cable ends were very long. That’s a relief.


----------



## Gifting

Rary said:


> 150BG, medium foam on the shell + Y3 or Y4 should be fine. N52 should sound good even whitout changing the pre-applied foam although it is usually a good idea to always replace it with  a more standard HS.


May I ask how the W_T_F affects the stock sound on the 150BG? I assembled the driver yesterday. And now I’m curious.


----------



## Ronion

It’ll reduce midrange/midbass and make the FR curve look more like a standard target curve like Crinacle’s or Harman’s.


----------



## Gifting

Ronion said:


> It’ll reduce midrange/midbass and make the FR curve look more like a standard target curve like Crinacle’s or Harman’s.


Nice! I'll keep that in mind. Will order them on Ali later on.


----------



## jeejack

Gifting said:


> Hi everyone, I’m a newbie when it comes to this. This is my 2nd DIY earbud, but I find the exposed wires too long for the shell. The knot is as far up as it can go. If I snap the casing together, the raw wires might touch. It might be a silly question, but would this affect sound quality, would it be noticeable?


Good drivers 👍


----------



## Gifting (Jul 11, 2022)

jeejack said:


> Good drivers 👍


The driver in that picture is this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832794759368.html

I also got these:

1) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256801910042863.html

2) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803507389105.html

My favorite is the 150BG, without foams.

Edit: Sorry, the links don't seem to work properly


----------



## jeejack

Gifting said:


> 2) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803507389105.html


N50 or N52?


----------



## Gifting (Jul 12, 2022)

jeejack said:


> N50 or N52?


The N52 is the one I got. Looks very similar to the N50 red rim that Rary has on his DIY google doc sheet. I figured why not go with a stronger magnet? Although to be honest, I don’t know if they’re even made by the same manufacturer.


----------



## BobBeats

232tomas232 said:


> hi guys) i have vido blue and white. I really like them, my hands itch, I want to experiment with them, can I somehow upgrade them, improve the sound, or is this a bad idea?)


Vido flatheads are a little glued so you would have to be careful as I have easily damaged the thin voicecoil wire while opening (twice, on two separate occasions on two separate buds). My advice, if you choose to risk the damage, is to open them slowly and try to carefully wedge something (non magetic) in place over the driver unit to keep it from moving with the shell while you seperate the shell and the faceplate.


----------



## Eduardiofilo

Hi, i have already built my first earbuds. I used the 150omh BG. ¿What other drivers would you recommend me? I don't care if they are high or low impedance drivers


----------



## jeejack (Jul 14, 2022)

Eduardiofilo said:


> Hi, i have already built my first earbuds. I used the 150omh BG. ¿What other drivers would you recommend me? I don't care if they are high or low impedance drivers


Here


----------



## Eduardiofilo

jeejack said:


> Here
> 
> Here


Thanks


----------



## sunsun89

hi, i want to build my 1st DIY earbuds, in pict number 1, is it the same driver 150 BG that u guys recommend for beginner? because it has red ring circle..

btw, in picture below 1 to 4, which driver has deep bas, great separation and great soundstage?


----------



## biocomplex

Does anyone tried golden plated 15.4mm driver from chitty? 
https://a.aliexpress.com/_vTgPGX


----------



## silverszi

Out of curiousity and mostly as a question of bass and treble extension
has anyone stuffed for example a planar and a dd in one bud or is full range extension possible-ish.


----------



## biocomplex

As much as I know there is only 'Rose mochiito' who managed to place 2 dd in one shell, have no idea how it sounds but in technical viewpoint its extremely difficult to extract something good from this scheme in earbud format. And learning from ready products of companies planar is better utilised in single driver scheme.


----------



## silverszi

biocomplex said:


> As much as I know there is only 'Rose mochiito' who managed to place 2 dd in one shell, have no idea how it sounds but in technical viewpoint its extremely difficult to extract something good from this scheme in earbud format. And learning from ready products of companies planar is better utilised in single driver scheme.


ive heard planar needs a seal to work well
not sure if that's true or not.


----------



## silverszi

Is there a driver guide with any measurements
I saw that wood shell on ali and now I want to see if I can have a nice new project to listen to


----------



## biocomplex

silverszi said:


> ive heard planar needs a seal to work well
> not sure if that's true or not.


Well there are good iem with planar drivers but also In higher segment can be seen good headphones without sealed construction with planars. So I guess in earbud form factor it is difficult with current technical background to make it sound good.


----------



## biocomplex

silverszi said:


> Is there a driver guide with any measurements
> I saw that wood shell on ali and now I want to see if I can have a nice new project to listen to


I haven't seen any measurements but in my humble opinion wooden shell for diy is the best choice for various drivers.. 
I tried classic mx500, different metal ones but in the end best sound comes from wooden.


----------



## silverszi (Aug 16, 2022)

biocomplex said:


> I haven't seen any measurements but in my humble opinion wooden shell for diy is the best choice for various drivers..
> I tried classic mx500, different metal ones but in the end best sound comes from wooden.


Problem for me sound wise is
will shell types/drivers produce too much pinna gain and what is their extension in both directions like.

also ive never done this before


----------



## silverszi

Is there a guide on driver selection with measurements 
I want to try and make something with basically no pinna gain and that's my main requirement.


----------



## assassin10000

silverszi said:


> Out of curiousity and mostly as a question of bass and treble extension
> has anyone stuffed for example a planar and a dd in one bud or is full range extension possible-ish.


Not that I am aware of.


biocomplex said:


> As much as I know there is only 'Rose mochiito' who managed to place 2 dd in one shell, have no idea how it sounds but in technical viewpoint its extremely difficult to extract something good from this scheme in earbud format. And learning from ready products of companies planar is better utilised in single driver scheme.


The maria and maria ii also have that.


silverszi said:


> Is there a driver guide with any measurements
> I saw that wood shell on ali and now I want to see if I can have a nice new project to listen to





silverszi said:


> Problem for me sound wise is
> will shell types/drivers produce too much pinna gain and what is their extension in both directions like.
> 
> also ive never done this before





silverszi said:


> Is there a guide on driver selection with measurements
> I want to try and make something with basically no pinna gain and that's my main requirement.



Sorry, no one has a resource like that. You may find some stuff in this thread or elsewhere. But the problem is everyone's rigs measure a bit differently and there's no repository that you can reference.

You'll have to experiment. Usually more restriction raises pinna gain (ie thicker foam/cotton). Problem is, if you go to far the other way it may sound flabby, wonky or otherwise weird.


----------



## assassin10000

So, I meant to share this a LONG time ago but forgot to upload it.

Full foams vs. Donut Foam vs. my offset donut foams.





Surprisingly on measurements the Donut foams provided the most bass. But our ears don't seem to hear it that way, most of us seem to hear more treble and detail. 



I also took some time to do some more tuning on my 150Ω redfilm drivers retrofitted to stainless mesh covers and MMCX modded K's LBBs shells.






Spoiler: MMCX K's


----------



## silverszi

assassin10000 said:


> Not that I am aware of.
> 
> The maria and maria ii also have that.
> 
> ...


Any notable 32ohm drivers that tend to produce less pinna gain then or is it basically entirely down to the reflections caused by the restriction?


----------



## silverszi

So Ive found a driver I might like
however it's got 3 solder pads for balanced output and I plan on using a 3.5mm aux so would I just not solder a connection to one of the pads or is it incompatible 
I assume the prior.


----------



## assassin10000

silverszi said:


> Any notable 32ohm drivers that tend to produce less pinna gain then or is it basically entirely down to the reflections caused by the restriction?


I've mostly stuck with 14.8mm size drivers, as my smaller concha don't like 15.4mm size earbuds.

The 2 least bright drivers of the 14.8mm ones I've tried are the 40Ω ti and the 120Ω beryllium. Unfortunately the 40Ω titanium does have a steeper treble roll off than most and the 120Ω beryllium needs more output than most headphone jacks though.

Given your want for 'flat' fr and easy to drive (cell phone 3.5mm). I'd try the 32Ω ti first, if you need brighter/more treble extension try the 64Ω n55 or darker the 40Ω ti.


----------



## assassin10000

silverszi said:


> So Ive found a driver I might like
> however it's got 3 solder pads for balanced output and I plan on using a 3.5mm aux so would I just not solder a connection to one of the pads or is it incompatible
> I assume the prior.


Drivers should only have 2 connections. Balanced is 4 total at the jack end (2 each driver) instead of shared ground so 3 at the jack.


----------



## silverszi

assassin10000 said:


> Drivers should only have 2 connections. Balanced is 4 total at the jack end (2 each driver) instead of shared ground so 3 at the jack.


That doesn't answer the question of if I can make a balanced driver work for an unbalanced connection
would I just solder both pads or leave one?


----------



## biocomplex

Mister assassin10000 out of his kindness told you that word "balanced connection" is applied only to the cable connection and that drivers always has 2 soldering points simply because that's how they work by standart, be more mindful and learn some fundamental things.


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 21, 2022)

silverszi said:


> That doesn't answer the question of if I can make a balanced driver work for an unbalanced connection
> would I just solder both pads or leave one?


If they say balanced in the listing, that means lows/mids/highs are balanced... Not that it's a driver for a balanced cable/connection.

All drivers can be used single ended OR balanced. It just depends on what cable you solder to it (or in the case of MMCX/2-pin, plug into).


----------



## o0genesis0o

assassin10000 said:


> Drivers should only have 2 connections. Balanced is 4 total at the jack end (2 each driver) instead of shared ground so 3 at the jack.



Hi, since single ended cable (is that even the right terminology?) has shared ground at the jack end, does that mean the shared ground cable split somewhere around the Y-split? I remember the driver end has a gold and a red or blue cable.


----------



## assassin10000

o0genesis0o said:


> Hi, since single ended cable (is that even the right terminology?) has shared ground at the jack end, does that mean the shared ground cable split somewhere around the Y-split? I remember the driver end has a gold and a red or blue cable.


Depends on the cable. Some are at the Y but braided cables are usually at the jack.


----------



## o0genesis0o

assassin10000 said:


> Depends on the cable. Some are at the Y but braided cables are usually at the jack.



So there are 4 cables. With single ended connection, we have two soldered to ground, one left, one right. If the jack is balanced, then 4 cables become L+ L- and R+ R-?


----------



## assassin10000

o0genesis0o said:


> So there are 4 cables. With single ended connection, we have two soldered to ground, one left, one right. If the jack is balanced, then 4 cables become L+ L- and R+ R-?


Exactly.


----------



## silverszi

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKspFW4
driver description states it is 3 way which explains the solder pads but I still don't know why it is 3 way if there's meant to be 2 pads


----------



## chavez

silverszi said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKspFW4
> driver description states it is 3 way which explains the solder pads but I still don't know why it is 3 way if there's meant to be 2 pads



All freq's are balanced. Has nothing to do with the cable.


----------



## o0genesis0o

The soldering pad next to the red dot belongs to the voice coil under neath. The pads that you solder are the ones opposite to those two.


----------



## o0genesis0o

silverszi said:


> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKspFW4
> driver description states it is 3 way which explains the solder pads but I still don't know why it is 3 way if there's meant to be 2 pads


----------



## silverszi

That answers my question 
thank you


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 28, 2022)

Anyone in the U.S. want some of these 14.8mm drivers, smabat silicone covers and ear hooks?







Edit: and gone/spoken for.


----------



## nomadik (Aug 28, 2022)

Hi, is it possible to tune a driver's mid/vocal more forward in the pk-like shell? I've tried using white thin filter but for me it seems to affect just the low and high frequencies, and I can't think of any other way that can bring the mid more forward.


----------



## assassin10000

nomadik said:


> Hi, is it possible to tune a driver's mid/vocal more forward in the pk-like shell? I've tried using white thin filter but for me it seems to affect just the low and high frequencies, and I can't think of any other way that can bring the mid more forward.


You may need a different driver. Which one are you using?


----------



## nomadik

assassin10000 said:


> You may need a different driver. Which one are you using?


I'm currently using the recommended 150ohm redfilm driver with Y2 thin filter. for me the sound is quite v-shape, the mid is more recessed compared to lbbs. Or maybe it's because I'm not using an external amplifier?


----------



## assassin10000 (Aug 29, 2022)

nomadik said:


> I'm currently using the recommended 150ohm redfilm driver with Y2 thin filter. for me the sound is quite v-shape, the mid is more recessed compared to lbbs. Or maybe it's because I'm not using an external amplifier?


Try partial or even no filter on the driver and tuning the shell.

A usb dongle is more than enough for these, they even sound ok on my old trn bt20 or my old Samsung phones.


----------



## BCool

Anyone know where to get a hold of earpod/semi-in-ear type front covers?
Like these but only the front piece:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004357408453.html


----------



## jogawag

BCool said:


> Anyone know where to get a hold of earpod/semi-in-ear type front covers?
> Like these but only the front piece:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004357408453.html


This?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001864997551.html


----------



## nomadik

assassin10000 said:


> Try partial or even no filter on the driver and tuning the shell.
> 
> A usb dongle is more than enough for these, they even sound ok on my old trn bt20 or my old Samsung phones.


by partial do you mean to put the filter only on some holes of the driver? is there any tips for tuning the shell besides removing the stock damper?


----------



## BCool

jogawag said:


> This?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001864997551.html


Unfortunately no, those are silicon covers. I'm looking for the actual plastic part of the shell.
Kinda like these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000068178525.html
except in the earpod shape.


----------



## assassin10000

nomadik said:


> by partial do you mean to put the filter only on some holes of the driver? is there any tips for tuning the shell besides removing the stock damper?


Yep.

You can widen or drill holes/vents, add damping material for resonance (metal shells), cover or plug holes, try different thickness foam/dampers (foam, micropore tape or the other medical tape can't recall name that has more holes).


----------



## nomadik

assassin10000 said:


> Yep.
> 
> You can widen or drill holes/vents, add damping material for resonance (metal shells), cover or plug holes, try different thickness foam/dampers (foam, micropore tape or the other medical tape can't recall name that has more holes).


Thanks! I'll try later, after getting more filter/damper. I might try the rivet mods as well


----------



## Braekfast

Hello wonderful people. I'm trying to get my shopping list together for my first diy buds. I'm basing myself on Rary's guides and I've already had some help in the earbuds round-up thread. But I figured these questions would be better placed here: 

*Cables: *
- I get the impression (from both the guide and from the pictures that I've seen browsing this thread) that cables with cloth on them aren't very popular. Is there a functional reason for this, or is an aestethic choice/matter of taste? I quite like the look of the black/purple one from the guide. 
- I also tend not to see cables with mics, even though there are plenty of those. Same question here, is there a functional reason or is it just because mics are unimportant to most people here? 

*Shells: *I'll be sticking to standard MX500 shells as the guide recommends. Is there a noticeable difference between the standard black coloured shells, and the red/blue/smoke/transparent ones? 

*Tuning:* 
-White tuning filter and horse shoe, what is the difference exactly? Is it just that horse shoe fits onto the shell and white tuning filter fits onto the drivers, or is there more to it? 
- In Rary's ranking list there are several mentions to "3 holes mod" or "N.3 holes in the shell". Could anyone explain what is meant by this? I'm probably overlooking it somewhere, but I wasn't able to find the explenation in the guide or in this thread.

*Drivers:* This one is a bit specific, but is there anyone here who has both the "32ohm N52 Blue Glue" and "32ohm 19-21 Red Dot"? I was looking at getting some cheap(er) 32 or 64 ohm drivers for the first practise buds and to give away to people I know who will probably be running them straight from their smartphone, while focusing on the 150BG for myself. These two seem like good picks considering the buds they've been used in. But both are about the same price and have a very similar description, so I'm struggling to decide which to pick. 
If you see these two picks and go "But Braekfast, you silly goose, you should go clearly pick X instead!", then I'll be happy to hear your correction.


----------



## gip33c

Hello guys, is it repairable? what glue i need to buy?


----------



## GREQ

gip33c said:


> Hello guys, is it repairable? what glue i need to buy?


That driver is toast.

LITERALLY by the looks of it ... is that fire damage??? o_0

The voice coil wires that used to be connected to the green board have been torn off and are practically impossible to reattach with regular consumer soldering equipment.


----------



## zabiri

Hey guys, 
I am a total beginner and I wanna make my first diy earbuds.
Can anyone recommend a suitable driver for beginners.

So far I am planning to get this
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/323...101d1bc16640296804405829e1a03!58632865100!rec


----------



## assassin10000 (Sep 24, 2022)

zabiri said:


> Hey guys,
> I am a total beginner and I wanna make my first diy earbuds.
> Can anyone recommend a suitable driver for beginners.
> 
> ...



I haven't heard that particular driver, so I can't say if its good or not.

Since it is a PK shell driver, I would recommend the 14.8mm 32Ω Ti driver instead.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/3256801499735892.html


----------



## zabiri

Hey guys, whats up?
I am a total beginner on this diy earbuds topic but i want to try making one
Can u guys recommend a suitable driver for beginners thay is available in aliexpress.
Prefered sound signature: warm and smooth.
Thanks


----------



## Into The Light5

zabiri said:


> Hey guys, whats up?
> I am a total beginner on this diy earbuds topic but i want to try making one
> Can u guys recommend a suitable driver for beginners thay is available in aliexpress.
> Prefered sound signature: warm and smooth.
> Thanks


I recommend the 15.4mm 18 ohm, the one with black/white driver cover to choose


----------



## zabiri

Into The Light5 said:


> I recommend the 15.4mm 18 ohm, the one with black/white driver cover to choose


Thanks for your recommendation, appreciate it.


----------



## amemisome

Hello everyone,
This is my first time in this thread. I've read through the DIY Earbuds Guide google spreadsheet and looked at some of the different well known mods and builds such as those by @Rary and @furyossa which has been interesting to read.

I've been using red Vido's with Trig Rain foams for the last couple of months and I'm blown away by the sound quality, especially for the price. I find myself using these earbuds more often than my IEMs because they're just so light and open. They do need a bit of EQ to get decent sub-bass, slightly more upper-mids, and to remove some treble peaks.


Spoiler: EQ that I'm using










I'm interested in learning how to make and tune my own earbuds and if possible I'd also like to try this with drivers that can be tuned to have more sub-bass extension and smoother treble than the Vido's. I have made one pair of DIY CIEMs last year so I'm not completely new to DIY, but I am new to earbuds so I'd like to start on the lower end (say below €30 for all the parts) and preferably with multiple pairs of drivers in case I accidentally ruin a pair or maybe to learn how to do more difficult mods like the rivet mod. My source is a FiiO M5, so not the most powerful but I'm sure it can handle stuff up to 100 Ohms.
I was thinking of either getting 2-3 pairs of the 32 Ohm 19-21 Red Dot's, 2-3 pairs of the 64 Ohm 19-21 Blue Dot Ti's, or a set of the 64 Ohm Emx500 Ti's. Obviously also cheap cables, shells, tuning materials, and M2.4 rivets. What would you guys recommend for a beginner?


----------



## assassin10000 (Oct 25, 2022)

amemisome said:


> Hello everyone,
> This is my first time in this thread. I've read through the DIY Earbuds Guide google spreadsheet and looked at some of the different well known mods and builds such as those by @Rary and @furyossa which has been interesting to read.
> 
> I've been using red Vido's with Trig Rain foams for the last couple of months and I'm blown away by the sound quality, especially for the price. I find myself using these earbuds more often than my IEMs because they're just so light and open. They do need a bit of EQ to get decent sub-bass, slightly more upper-mids, and to remove some treble peaks.
> ...


You might as well buy the better drivers as they're cheap enough. 

Since you'll be doing multiple sets buy plenty of tuning materials to experiment with.


----------



## jogawag

amemisome said:


> Hello everyone,
> This is my first time in this thread. I've read through the DIY Earbuds Guide google spreadsheet and looked at some of the different well known mods and builds such as those by @Rary and @furyossa which has been interesting to read.
> 
> I've been using red Vido's with Trig Rain foams for the last couple of months and I'm blown away by the sound quality, especially for the price. I find myself using these earbuds more often than my IEMs because they're just so light and open. They do need a bit of EQ to get decent sub-bass, slightly more upper-mids, and to remove some treble peaks.
> ...


I recommend you 32ohm N52 Blue Glue.
https://aliexpress.com/item/33031053227.html


----------



## amemisome

assassin10000 said:


> You might as well buy the better drivers as they're cheap enough.
> 
> Since you'll be doing multiple sets buy plenty of tuning materials to experiment with.


Thank you for your input. You're right I might as well get the EMX500 Ti with how much praise it's getting and how little it actually costs.
Any tuning materials I should get beyond mixed horse shoe foams, mixed white (paper?) tuning filters, and M2.4 rivets?



jogawag said:


> I recommend you 32ohm N52 Blue Glue.
> https://aliexpress.com/item/33031053227.html


This driver does look promising and from the impressions I get of people who made a build with this driver it would fit my preferences, though I think I'll still get the EMX500 Ti for my first builds. If my first few builds turn out well I might order these later.


----------



## assassin10000

amemisome said:


> Thank you for your input. You're right I might as well get the EMX500 Ti with how much praise it's getting and how little it actually costs.
> Any tuning materials I should get beyond mixed horse shoe foams, mixed white (paper?) tuning filters, and M2.4 rivets?


Medical tape (its porous).

Maybe a small in size set of drill bits and hand/finger drill to hold/use them? May work better than rivets as you could tune the size.


----------



## amemisome

assassin10000 said:


> Medical tape (its porous).
> 
> Maybe a small in size set of drill bits and hand/finger drill to hold/use them? May work better than rivets as you could tune the size.


Thank you, I've also ordered those. I did still get the rivets, but I'll try just drilling a hole first.


----------



## subwoof3r

hi guys, long time no see 

Any feedback about these drivers ? looks interesting :

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005004273477814.html


----------



## jogawag (Oct 31, 2022)

subwoof3r said:


> hi guys, long time no see
> 
> Any feedback about these drivers ? looks interesting :
> 
> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005004273477814.html


DIY Workroom has the following to say
Blue pet isn't good
only expensive


----------



## subwoof3r

Thanks, I think these drivers are then much more interesting then (the Titanium ones especially) :


----------



## drewbadour (Nov 2, 2022)

subwoof3r said:


> hi guys, long time no see
> 
> Any feedback about these drivers ? looks interesting :
> 
> https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005004273477814.html


These light blue ones are the drivers in the TGXEAR Serratus, which is made by Jim Park (@tgx78.

Apparently, it's really hard to get it to sound good but Jim was able to tune it so well that it has become my favorite bud.

There is a dark blue version of it which is supposedly just bad.


----------



## subwoof3r (Nov 21, 2022)

New wired version of my yest best 32ohm MX500 shell personal custom mod  
Impressive sound (as always), but this time wired with high quality cable ^^


----------



## assassin10000

subwoof3r said:


> New wired version of my yest best 32ohm MX500 shell personal custom mod
> Impressive sound (as always), but this time wired with high quality cable ^^


Looks good.

I need to get around to making a few more pairs. I've got a couple pairs of K's LBBs shells to take apart and could remake my original favorite modded brass shell with the 150Ω redfilm drivers. Of the 3-4 shells I've tried those drivers in, that was where they sounded the best.


----------



## amemisome (Nov 22, 2022)

Thanks everyone for the help picking out my first sets of drivers. I made 3 sets so far and only ruined one driver, it was a lot of fun making these earbuds.
While I do have a knockoff IEM measure rig, I have no idea how to measure earbuds with an IEC711 type coupler so I added my eq presets to give an idea of how they vary from what sounds reasonably flat or balanced to my ears. That said I'm not very good at equalizing by ear with a tone generator, especially in the bass I find it hard to get it exactly right, so take the eq graphs and impressions after eq with a grain of salt.
If anyone has some tips on how to measure earbud graphs I'll add those in the future.


Spoiler: Stock EMX500 Ti 64 Ohm



This one was very easy to make, including heating up my cheap soldering iron it took about 30 minutes.
The sound is decent, a little lean and bright but it doesn't sound bad. I wanted to try the most stock configuration possible as a baseline. I wouldn't say that it's a noticeable upgrade over the Vido, though it is a little smoother while maintaining similar detail retrieval.




Because I wanted more bass I thought I'd swap the HS out for a low density one. The low HS is a little veiled and sounds a little wonky compared to the medium density HS, but it does have increased bass. The coloration of this tuning gives the illusion of a more spacious sound, but when you equalize the earbuds to sound flat this sense of space is mostly lost. I'd say this tuning is a downgrade over the medium density HS.








Spoiler: 2mm back hole mod



This one started out very easy, same configuration as before but with a hole in the back of the shells. However with just medium HS the sound became very dark and muddled though I did like how the bass sounded, so instead of putting some foam in front of the hole I wanted to try and use high density HS to keep some of the bass but clear up the mids and highs a bit. When I closed them back up I somehow cut off all the low frequencies on the right side and I think I broke that driver because nothing other than replacing the driver worked to fix this issue. I also put in some Y4 thin white filters, low density round foams on the back of the driver, and cut a hole in my earbud foams (didn't have any donut foams, but this worked too) to try and get some clarity. I also put a 4.0mm IEM mesh behind the back hole to stop dust from entering the shells.



In the end this tuning method did not give a satisfactory result, the mids are muddy though the lower treble is boosted in a way that makes it sound splashy. With eq however, compared to the stock set (medium HS) with eq, this set has a slightly more open sound and the bass is a bit better extended.





Spoiler: 3mm back hole mod



medium HS, high density IEM foam, donut foams:
This one went fairly well, the place where the HS foam is supposed to go was flipped on these shells so I did everything I did with the other two upside down. This one was fairly decent with just the medium density HS, though I did fill the 3mm holes with high density IEM foams because the bass rolled off completely at 60Hz without them and I cut a hole in another pair of foams to make diy donut foams.
The tuning on these is a little dark with the slight dip in the upper mids and the bigger dip upper treble, but the bass and mids are fairly flat. The bass rolls off around ~43Hz. With eq it sounds spacious, though the bass extension isn't great.




high density HS, Y4 paper, high density IEM foam, donut foams:
I wanted to try and re-tune these earbuds to get a little more upper mids and treble, though instead the result is arguably worse. That said I jumped to re-tuning before completely fine tuning my previous eq preset so perhaps there are some minor issues I hadn't yet caught in my previous preset.








Spoiler: Failed mods



Extra vent mod and opening the bass port mod:
I think I ruined one pair of shells trying to do this mod with the required tiny 0.7mm drill (I accidentally scraped away parts of the area that are supposed to hold up the HS foam), I also made no progress getting to the other side of the shell so I gave up. I then tried drilling to the bass port to see if I was able to do this, but also found this to be very hard and gave up. I did already ruin one driver making the previous set so I wasn't going to get 5 sets anyway.

Rivet mod:
I only bought the cheapest cable, which isn't braided and I'm not sure if I'd be able to do the rivet mod with this cable.



If anyone has a suggestion for how I should try to tune my last set or re-tune any of the other sets it'd be much appreciated (I still have no clue how tuning earbuds works exactly haha).


----------



## Gifting

amemisome said:


> If anyone has a suggestion for how I should try to tune my last set or re-tune any of the other sets it'd be much appreciated (I still have no clue how tuning earbuds works exactly haha).


I'm in the same boat as you. I just started messing with mods on my soldered DIY earbuds. I ordered some tuning foams and white tuning filters. I'm guessing you based your mods off Rary's DIY guide right?

I decided to rivet my existing 150 BG set I built. I basically followed Rary's Rivet Mod. 
Had to take off the stock foam from the driver (although I'm thinking maybe it wasn't a good idea).





With just the hard density foam (and the rivet), the bass and soundstage improved greatly. But sounded as if mids and treble were pulled back (vocals recessed). I added a Y4 paper onto the back of the driver. It seemed like it improved treble, but no change in the mids.

It also doesn't help that my cable doesn't allow an ideal rivet length. I might change the dense foam to a less dense foam and/or remove the cotton stuffing. That might change things a bit and hopefully improve mids.


----------



## jeejack (Dec 11, 2022)

Gifting said:


> I'm in the same boat as you. I just started messing with mods on my soldered DIY earbuds. I ordered some tuning foams and white tuning filters. I'm guessing you based your mods off Rary's DIY guide right?
> 
> I decided to rivet my existing 150 BG set I built. I basically followed Rary's Rivet Mod.
> Had to take off the stock foam from the driver (although I'm thinking maybe it wasn't a good idea).
> ...


Reduce the diameter of the rivet below 1mm and see what happens. Cover all driver holes with HS, put HS on the shells, VC (voice coil) down. You don't have to change the cable if you give up the knot. Seal the canal where the cable passes.


----------



## YungOmbat

purplesun said:


> Adhesive.
> 
> Anyone have any idea what's a good one to use? I'm just going use whatever I have lying around. Unless, there's something better. Hope I don't make a mess of it.


super/crazy glue?


----------



## assassin10000 (Dec 12, 2022)

YungOmbat said:


> super/crazy glue?


The off gassing may potentially damage the driver membrane iirc. Or so it was mentioned somewhere, maybe in this thread?

E8000 or equivalent is what I use.


Also that post is from 2016.


----------



## YungOmbat

assassin10000 said:


> The off gassing may potentially damage the driver membrane iirc. Or so it was mentioned somewhere, maybe in this thread?
> 
> E8000 or equivalent is what I use.
> 
> ...


What’s off gassing, e8000 is also very good


----------



## assassin10000

YungOmbat said:


> What’s off gassing, e8000 is also very good


The carrier liquid evaporating.


----------



## Gifting (Dec 14, 2022)

jeejack said:


> Reduce the diameter of the rivet below 1mm and see what happens. Cover all driver holes with HS, put HS on the shells, VC (voice coil) down. You don't have to change the cable if you give up the knot. Seal the canal where the cable passes.


Thank you for the advice. I removed the W_T_F paper off the driver and replaced it with a low density foam. Removed the cotton from the faux vents as well. Mids seemed to improve a bit, but not where I'd like it to be. I will replace it with medium and then high density foams, to compare all three. I tried sealing the canal where the cable is, but it sounded a little wonky. Maybe it was the combination with the low density foam. Will try it again with the other foams. I will get some micropore tape to partially seal the rivet hole as well.

After doing so, I will report back which is the best configuration.

Follow up question: From my understanding, high density foams generally emphasize low end, right? My goal is to tune these earbuds to sound like a NiceHCK DIY MX500 (which has very forward vocals), but keep the lovely bass these have.


----------



## Into The Light5

Hi, has anyone tried the newer driver? The huayunxin or qigom, or maybe that 700 ohm berylium? Im interested on building 1 buds using these drivers but not sure which one to choose. Qigom seller claimed the 32 ohm 2022 model has bigger bass than the 130 ohm berylium 🤔


----------



## purplesun

YungOmbat said:


> super/crazy glue?





assassin10000 said:


> The off gassing may potentially damage the driver membrane iirc. Or so it was mentioned somewhere, maybe in this thread?
> 
> E8000 or equivalent is what I use.
> 
> Also that post is from 2016.


 What the heck?! 

It's been years since I DIYed any earbuds. Think I tried UHU stick and E8000 (messier).  Didn't take much to hold them together; I think any basic glue should work. I was constantly opening/closing the cover tweaking the sound, so I ended up using a thin strip of 3M surgical tape to hold the cover/body together. Once the ear foams are on, the tapes will be hidden.

Have a good one, everyone!


----------



## mt877

My latest build: 500Ω Be, 4.4mm Pentaconn.


----------



## Yorasu

Hi guys! I am new to this scene and really enjoy reading this forum before actually starting my 1st step in this journey. @Rary's guide has been especially helpful and I really appreciate the effort poured into this guide.
I actually do have lots of questions and wonder if there's any discord community specifically for diy earbuds so I can bombard my questions there


----------

