# Are you a console or PC gamer?



## Music Alchemist

I've been a console gamer since the early '90s. Never got deeply into PC gaming.
  
 What about you?
  
 Share your experiences of why you prefer one over the other, or why you like both equally.


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## NA Blur

Both, but primarily on XBOX One.


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## Music Alchemist

na blur said:


> Both, but primarily on XBOX One.


 
  
 Although I've owned more than a few consoles, I never got into Xbox. I've always been more into PlayStation and Nintendo systems. One reason the Xbox One would appeal to me is the new Killer Instinct game. (I was a huge fan of the first one.)
  
 I'm really bummed out that the PS4 has next to no backwards compatibility. You can't even download older digital games on it! They have planned for a long time now to have universal compatibility, making all previous games available in digital format, but who knows when that'll actually happen...


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## Rhamnetin

Was a console gamer from childhood to the year 2007, then realized PC gaming is the better platform and got my first gaming PC at the beginning of 2008.  Haven't looked back since.  Reasons why I prefer PC gaming:
  

Much broader game and genre selection.  All of my favorite games are on PC, many aren't on consoles.  I don't want video games to try and copy movies, like most console single player titles do.  Movies will always be better movies than games so that's futile.  I don't want oversimplified games designed for a child audience, which most console games are (and AAA games in general).  Multiplayer gaming other than casual laid back gaming is pointless on console due to too much network lag, although this has improved over the years as P2P isn't as common.  Although if you love Japanese games then PC will not satisfy.
Modding, both creating and using them.  Take games and make them better, and/or make them into something different.  Or just make your own campaign in a game that has gameplay that you like.  Add more maps to a multiplayer game.  Change the color palette, shaders, effects, and overall look of any game using ReShade, ENB, and/or GeDoSaTo (shader injector applications).  You name it.  Yes, not every game supports modding, but many do including almost every game I play.  Or you can download Unreal Engine 4 (or another, lesser engine in my opinion) and make whatever you want.
Practically infinite backwards compatibility and availability of older games.  Worst case scenario, an emulator is needed whether it's for DOS or a console emulator.  Such emulators are easy to find and set up.
Much better performance in games.  Bye bye stutters and low frame rates that make a game look like a slideshow (looking at you Uncharted 4 and Metal Gear Solid 4).  30 FPS now looks terrible to me.  60 FPS is okay.  Nothing beats gaming at 120 FPS or more with triple buffered V-Sync (consoles use double buffered last time I checked, adding way more input lag) with backlight strobing enabled which gets rid of all sample and hold motion blur.  For example try focusing on objects in the moving photo test *here *and you'll see that it's all blurred, unlike human eyes which can track very well without blur.  On PC you can game with a technology that eliminates that making for a much clearer, more lifelike experience.  Or, if I can't maintain 120 FPS, I will instead use G-SYNC which syncs my monitor's refresh rate to the game's frame rate, removing screen tearing without a fixed frame rate like V-Sync and without the lag or stutters.  Consoles don't have this tech either, and it makes a huge difference in immersion and competitive gameplay (not that I game competitively).
Building on the above, much faster loading times thanks to SSD and RAMdisk technology.  Every time I see my brother waiting forever in GTA's initial loading screen I laugh.
Much better, more advanced sound processing in certain games (albeit this doesn't apply to modern games).  Nothing comes close to OpenAL or DirectSound3D 3D sound processing combined with EFX or EAX.  Stereo/headphone users can enable a highly effective *binaural audio simulation* with this while surround users get much better surround localization (use of all speakers).  I think this can even be classified as object based surround because of the way these APIs work, sort of like Dolby Atmos and DTS:X in concept.
Much better visual quality in games thanks to superior graphics technology.  Or, in the case of various PC exclusive games from Total War to ArmA, Warhammer 40k Dawn of War series or most of the Civilization games, or large scale MMOs like Star Wars: The Old Republic, we get games on a scale that consoles can't handle.
Wider selection of sound and video output devices.  Can game with a wider variety of speakers, headphones, microphones, monitors/displays including TVs, also software such as virtual surround or the aforementioned ReShade/ENB/GeDoSaTo.  Larger resolutions, 1920 x 1080 is garbage to me.  Higher refresh rates.  Multiple aspect ratios to choose from.
Wider selection of input devices including console controllers if you want.  Mouse and keyboard for shooters and more complex games that need more buttons than a controller offers, more racing wheel and joystick options.
Much better, more flexible recording software both for local recording and streaming.  Open Broadcaster Software monitor capture being the champion for Windows 10 (especially with NVIDIA GPU acceleration).
Game updates aren't forced on me, and I can play games while others are updating (although maybe current gen consoles have this).  OS updates aren't forced on me in Windows 7 either.
Choice of different operating systems.
Typically better prices on games; Greenmangaming always has AAA pre-releases for under $50 opposed to the usual $60, Steam sales and Humble Bundle and other stores often have games on sale for 50-90% off.
Preloading games (downloading most of the game's before it's released) so I can play a game immediately at launch.
Doesn't apply to me anymore but PC offers a much better multiplayer experience for those interested in communities/clans.  The games allow for actual server creation and customization, can make private servers, have the server link to your website via a message or screen when connecting, can use programs like TeamSpeak for better privacy and coordination, and far more in more moddable multiplayer games.
The ability to make a customized PC build.  Unlimited selection of enclosures, hardware, cooling, peripherals, aesthetics.  My current build has a water cooled processor and is extremely quiet, and I never have to worry about it overheating.
Overclocking is fun.
I multitask.  Don't have to get up or switch devices when I want to be done gaming and doing something else on my computer.


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## pureangus62

PC all the way. For pretty much every reason Rhamnetin listed


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## Music Alchemist

Not surprised to see ya here, buddy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Those are some very compelling reasons to go PC. I only disagree with the following:
  


> Much broader game and genre selection.  All of my favorite games are on PC, many aren't on consoles.


 
  
 I guess this depends on the games you like. I've enjoyed all sorts of games, and many are console exclusives.
  
 Which game genres are not on consoles? I don't know of any.
  


> I don't want video games to try and copy movies, like most console single player titles do.  Movies will always be better movies than games so that's futile.


 
  
 Only a small percentage of console games are based on movies.
  
 I do agree that the movies themselves tend to be better than the games based on them. On the flipside, movies based on games tend to be worse than the original games.
  


> I don't want oversimplified games designed for a child audience, which most console games are (and AAA games in general).


 
  
 There are countless console games that are _not_ for children. This makes me wonder how many console games you've played.


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## Rhamnetin

Oh I didn't mean actually "based on movies" but rather the game design approach where the goal is to emulate the style of a movie.  E.g. Naughty Dog games, where the emphasis is on cinematic cutscenes, they rely more on cinematics than writing quality (the recent Tomb Raider games are the most guilty of this, they think sticking a female protagonist in the game is sufficient character development), and all of the gameplay is just repetitive filler content.
  
 The genres that are stronger (more prevalent) on consoles include JRPGs and fighting games (and maybe "action adventure").  Genres much more prevalent or even exclusive to PC include:
  

wRPGs from before 2007 or so
MMORPG
MMOFPS
MOBA
Persistent world multiplayer in general
Point-and-click adventure
Turn-Based Strategy (hardly one genre due to the variety)
Real-Time Strategy (ditto, hard to put it all in one genre)
Racing simulators
Flight simulators
Pseudo-military simulators (ArmA franchise, Operation Flashpoint, that WW2 game the same studio published).
All kinds of odd simulators like Surgeon Simulator, Truck Simulators, and games like Papers Please.  There are genres that even I haven't heard of.  You should browse Steam's indie section to see all the weirdness in there.
  
 The bigger selection of games on PC is a statistic.  Whether or not one cares is another matter.
  
 As for dumbed down console games, I was referring to AAA titles as I pointed out but I forgot to specify games from after 2007.  Most of the mainstream AAA games since then are dumbed down as such, even PC is guilty of that now since mainstream AAA titles are generally on both consoles and PC.  
  
 I've been playing console games from late 90s until 2007 (I've owned Sega Dreamcast, SNES/N64/Gamecube/Wii, PS1/PS2/PS3, XBOX/XBOX 360) and have played a few after that to completion (and have tried and discarded more).  I've also played PC games from the same time period as I made it a point to go back and play most of the RPG and FPS classics.  My favorite games come from the late 90s, the entire 2000s and a few from the 2010s too.
  
 Cool thread by the way!


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## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> Oh I didn't mean actually "based on movies" but rather the game design approach where the goal is to emulate the style of a movie.  E.g. Naughty Dog games, where the emphasis is on cinematic cutscenes, they rely more on cinematics than writing quality (the recent Tomb Raider games are the most guilty of this, they think sticking a female protagonist in the game is sufficient character development), and all of the gameplay is just repetitive filler content.
> 
> The genres that are stronger (more prevalent) on consoles include JRPGs and fighting games (and maybe "action adventure").  Genres much more prevalent or even exclusive to PC include:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oooh, I gotcha! Yeah, cinematic cutscenes are common, but I like 'em! There are plenty of high quality games with cutscenes. Final Fantasy and Metal Gear come to mind.
  
 But which of those genres are not on consoles at all? I believe there are console games in all of those genres except perhaps ones with point and click features. I don't consider that feature to be a genre, anyway; just a feature within a genre.
  
 I get what you mean abut many games being dumbed down, particularly on Wii. (Though that's precisely why some are so popular.) I just wanted to be clear that this should not be applied to console games in general, even if it is a prevalent trend compared to PC games.
  
 So you never tried any portable consoles? PS Vita and Nintendo 3DS were so fun! PSP and Game Boy Advance were great too.


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## Rhamnetin

Point-and-click does exist on console actually (Heavy Rain, Telltale games).  
  
 Are flight simulators on consoles?  I think racing simulators just finally landed on consoles with Project C.A.R.S. (a game with PC oriented development).  Military simulators aren't on consoles, neither are most of those other simulators.
  
 I did forget to mention city builder type games, which are either PC exclusive or just very strongly prevalent on PC.  I'm not sure which type of RTS games are on consoles, but several types such as Total War aren't on consoles.  The genre system as it is now is a bit of a mess as you can see, many RTS franchises are so different that they have next to nothing in common with anything else thus could be their own genre.
  
 I did try portable consoles actually.  Gameboy, Gameboy Advance, Gameboy Advance SP, DS, and PSP.  I hate handheld gaming.  I see it as being meant for time wasting, it's impossible for me to get immersed on such a small display with such awful controls (I hate controllers in general) and immersion is typically what I game for.


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## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> Point-and-click does exist on console actually (Heavy Rain, Telltale games).
> 
> Are flight simulators on consoles?  I think racing simulators just finally landed on consoles with Project C.A.R.S. (a game with PC oriented development).  Military simulators aren't on consoles, neither are most of those other simulators.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Depends what you count as a simulator. I believe everything you mentioned has been available on consoles for a long time, if you're more lax with the requirements.
  
 I prefer controllers. I can hardly game with a keyboard and mouse at all. At times I can even be _more_ immersed in portable consoles than a large HDTV. Just goes to show ya how subjective gaming is.
  
 If you're into racing games, I love the futuristic racing franchise WipEout. Spent a ton of time on WipEout HD (with Fury expansion pack) and WipEout 2048 on PS3 and Vita.


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## Rhamnetin

I forgot to add, I don't have a problem with a cinematic approach on its own, only when gameplay and actual writing are sacrificed, and when the storytelling methods are entirely cinematic and not taking advantage of the gaming medium at all.
  
 Simulators kind of have a standard definition in the industry, which would be where the primary focus is to simulate a real life task, with gameplay designed to not really leave anything out.  Gran Turismo and Forza for example are not racing simulators since the primary focus isn't to simulate an actual standard race (although Gran Turismo 5 added it as sort of an afterthought), although they could be called driving simulators.
  
 Of the PC exclusive genres I listed, what are some console game examples you know of?  Military simulators are actually exclusive to one studio, Bohemia Interactive, and all of their games are PC exclusive (they actually have separate games used for military training, the public versions being somewhat cut down versions).


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## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> Of the PC exclusive genres I listed, what are some console game examples you know of?


 
  
 I don't know what the requirements are for something to be a simulator. Many things seem like simulators to me. I've seen many simulator-type games on consoles. You'd have to research it to get the specifics.


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## Rhamnetin

It's possible that some of these office simulators, truck simulators, and the like have crossed over to consoles without my knowing.  Looks like neither of us really care about those games anyway.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Many of them are and have been PC exclusive because of the horrendous price of getting a game published and patched on consoles.


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## NamelessPFG

I've been gaming on both for as long as I remember: consoles with an NES, SNES and Magnavox Odyssey2 to start out with, PC back in the DOS days on my father's machine.
  
 This was when Windows 3.1 was the latest thing and you still had to remember your address/IRQ/DMA settings so each and every game you played would have sound. In certain cases, you'd even have to start fiddling around with freeing up "conventional memory" under the 640K barrier just to get a game to load.
  
 Yeah, PC gaming today is easy mode compared to back then. You just install it, and it runs - often better than any console on the market if your hardware's up to snuff. I still keep around a retrogaming build for specific cases of Win9x-era games that just don't like modern hardware and OSes, but other than that, most things run on my modern 4770K/GTX 980/Win10 build just fine.
  
 Oh, and you have the option of playing with a keyboard and mouse or a gamepad, whichever you prefer. It's rather insulting that modern consoles have USB ports as standard equipment and won't let you take advantage of them, while an old Dreamcast with its proprietary KB+M will let you play Quake III Arena, Unreal Tournament or Half-Life as intended.
  
 You're not even forced to use a specific kind of gamepad, either; nab an Xbox One pad, a DualShock 3 or 4, a Sega Saturn pad or even a Neo-Geo CD pad with its nice, clicky little stick in place of a D-Pad, because for whatever you're looking to play, there's probably an ideal gamepad for it.
  
 As for certain genres not being on consoles, well, you just aren't going to see anything like Falcon BMS or DCS on a console unless you pull a Steel Battalion and mandate a special HOTAS + pedal setup just to play it. Gamepads just don't have enough buttons and additional analog axes to manage something like an F-16C, A-10C or Ka-50, and let's not neglect how the cockpits are _fully clickable and mappable to a real pit should you decide to build one._
  
 However, I still keep a small collection of retro consoles around, even if emulation is easy. There's just something about playing on the original hardware that emulation often can't quite replicate, especially on platforms like the Sega Saturn with a notoriously complicated architecture, and the N64, where 2D elements in Project64 just look like filtered garbage instead of clean sprites.


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## pureangus62

As a diehard PC gamer who hasn't touched a console in years, I don't look down on people who have no desire to game on a PC. If they enjoy their games and don't feel like theyre missing out then more power to them, its all about having fun


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## Music Alchemist

namelesspfg said:


> However, I still keep a small collection of retro consoles around, even if emulation is easy. There's just something about playing on the original hardware that emulation often can't quite replicate, especially on platforms like the Sega Saturn with a notoriously complicated architecture, and the N64, where 2D elements in Project64 just look like filtered garbage instead of clean sprites.


 
  
 True that! I grew up on Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis, and PlayStation, and a bit of N64. I eventually started playing original NES games, which tend to be surprisingly difficult. I only played a friend's Sega Saturn, but remember it being quite fun. Later on I got consoles like the GameCube and PS3. The capabilities of newer consoles make for an interesting experience, but the games lack the genius of the classics.
  
 One benefit of emulators is when the game is not released in English. For example, Mother 3 (the sequel to my second favorite video game EarthBound) was not released outside of Japan, so fans made their own English translation.
  
 Speaking of N64 graphics, The Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina Of Time 3D on 3DS blew my mind. Looks so much better than the original.
  


pureangus62 said:


> As a diehard PC gamer who hasn't touched a console in years, I don't look down on people who have no desire to game on a PC. If they enjoy their games and don't feel like theyre missing out then more power to them, its all about having fun


 
  
 That's a respectful attitude to have. I'll become a PC gamer sooner or later. But I'm so in love with consoles I doubt I'd ever give them up!
  
 I do have the PC remaster of my favorite video game, Final Fantasy VII. (Originally on PS1.) Haven't played it more than a few minutes yet. I want to get a custom desktop because I can't comfortably play PC games even though I have a gaming laptop. It overheats and instantly shuts off when I push it too hard, and it can't handle nearly as much as it could when I first got it. Perhaps RAM drives will make gaming easier. I got excellent results using them for HD videos and so on.


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## pureangus62

music alchemist said:


> That's a respectful attitude to have. I'll become a PC gamer sooner or later. But I'm so in love with consoles I doubt I'd ever give them up!
> 
> I do have the PC remaster of my favorite video game, Final Fantasy VII. (Originally on PS1.) Haven't played it more than a few minutes yet. I want to get a custom desktop because I can't comfortably play PC games even though I have a gaming laptop. It overheats and instantly shuts off when I push it too hard, and it can't handle nearly as much as it could when I first got it. Perhaps RAM drives will make gaming easier. I got excellent results using them for HD videos and so on.


 
  
 Ever since I watercooled my entire PC I'm more worried about why my components are above 30C rather than overheating 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I admit its nice to just grab a controller and kick back on the sofa sometimes. I'm just a sucker for 144 fps and super maxed out graphics


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## Rhamnetin

pureangus62 said:


> Ever since I watercooled my entire PC I'm more worried about why my components are above 30C rather than overheating
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you have a G-SYNC/ULMB monitor, in those games where you get 144 FPS I recommend instead setting refresh rate to 120 Hz, enabling Fast Sync or triple buffered V-Sync (try both), and enable ULMB.  Much smoother experience due sample and hold motion blur being eliminated.


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## pureangus62

rhamnetin said:


> If you have a G-SYNC/ULMB monitor, in those games where you get 144 FPS I recommend instead setting refresh rate to 120 Hz, enabling Fast Sync or triple buffered V-Sync (try both), and enable ULMB.  Much smoother experience due sample and hold motion blur being eliminated.


 
 My monitor can run at 165hz so thats what I usually leave it at (Acer XB270HU). Ive tried the ULMB and it didnt seem to make enough difference in blur for me to sacrifice 45hz


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## Randos

Primary PC but i have and xbox 360/one ps3/4 and handhelds for their exclusives


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## abvolt

PC only, the  real way to games are played, if one has the right rig that is..enjoy


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## buyao

I'm mostly a PC player myself but I'll still play games on my PS4 for the exclusive or the bad ports.
  
 I've been a PC player for my entire life, my first memory of gaming was playing Oids on my Dad's Macintosh. I didn't get into console gaming until I manage to buy my own console which was the Sony PS3. Because of this, I missed out on a lot of great games that were only released on N64, Dreamcast, PS1 and PS2. I still had vivid painful memories of walking into game shops but can only stare at the games that looked fun but I could never play. That's why I don't understand the players who are only dedicated to one platform and limit themselves.
  
 More and more games are multi-platform nowadays, but sometimes there will still be ****ty PC ports(*cough*Arkham Knight*cough*). And some Japanese games still only release on console as well. I love my PC for its performance and versatility, console and handheld for its games that I would never be able to experience otherwise.


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## Amish

I consider myself a dedicated gamer so with that said; I game on both PC and console. I currently own an Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii U, PS4 and Xbox One. I then have two gaming computers one with a GTX1080 and the other with a GTX 980.


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## chef8489

Pcgamer since the early 80s. I did play a bit of Nes in the 90s but still stuck with pc games and sims to this day.


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## pureangus62

amish said:


> I consider myself a dedicated gamer so with that said; I game on both PC and console. I currently own an Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii U, PS4 and Xbox One. I then have two gaming computers one with a GTX1080 and the other with a GTX 980.


 

 In my younger years I would have definitely called myself a dedicated gamer. I would play almost every new game that came out on any system, any genre, etc. Nowadays with limited free time I tend to just stick to my handful of go-to PC games and the occasional new release that catches my eye


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## Coq de Combat

I'd say both of them. I own a *gaming PC* (with an i5, gtx 970, 16 gigs of RAM and gaming peripherals like mech keyboards, three of them, and 300+ games on steam and several more on origin, uplay and gog - I guess you could say I have built this machine towards gaming mostly) and an *Xbox 360* with 100+ games on discs, and grew up with *Sega Megadrive* (Genesis) and *Master System*. Between growing up and being an adult I had both *Playstation *and *Playstation 2*, and yes, I still have FF7. However, before that I had an *Atari 2600* and *Commodore 64.* I also once owned a *PSP* and *Sega Gamegear. *So, really, I am a bit of both. If I were to choose to keep only one I'd go with my PC, but I want them all.


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## chef8489

coq de combat said:


> I'd say both of them. I own a *gaming PC* (with an i5, gtx 970, 16 gigs of RAM and gaming peripherals like mech keyboards, three of them, and 300+ games on steam and several more on origin, uplay and gog - I guess you could say I have built this machine towards gaming mostly) and an *Xbox 360* with 100+ games on discs, and grew up with *Sega Megadrive* (Genesis) and *Master System*. Between growing up and being an adult I had both *Playstation *and *Playstation 2*, and yes, I still have FF7. However, before that I had an *Atari 2600* and *Commodore 64.* I also once owned a *PSP* and *Sega Gamegear. *So, really, I am a bit of both. If I were to choose to keep only one I'd go with my PC, but I want them all.


 

 Forgot about my Atari 2600. I guess I also was a console gamer as far as the nes and atari are concerned, but did pc game a back to the comodore 64 and apple II


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## Aornic

PC gamer. Unfortunately, due to a semi-nomadic lifestyle these past few years, I haven't been able to properly construct a nice desktop rig. I do have an ASUS gaming laptop however that serves me well - with a Nvidia 970M. More than enough for the likes of League of Legends and Overwatch, the two multiplayer games I play.
  
 Looking forward to Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, but won't be able to play it until I submit my thesis on of before September 19th.


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## Music Alchemist

I'm glad Final Fantasy XIII-2 is available on PC now via Steam. (I played it for hundreds of hours on PS3.) But I won't really be able to play it on a PC until I upgrade to the custom desktop I'm planning. My Alienware M11x R2 laptop just doesn't handle things like it used to, and it overheats and shuts off when I push it too hard. RAM drives are making things easier, like with HD videos, but I doubt even that would fix things when it comes to HD games. I'd also like to use some sort of controller similar to PS3. I think you can actually use a PS3 controller on a PC with the right setup. Gaming with a keyboard is rather alien to me, aside from emulators.


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## buyao

aornic said:


> PC gamer. Unfortunately, due to a semi-nomadic lifestyle these past few years, I haven't been able to properly construct a nice desktop rig. I do have an ASUS gaming laptop however that serves me well - with a Nvidia 970M. More than enough for the likes of League of Legends and Overwatch, the two multiplayer games I play.
> 
> Looking forward to Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, but won't be able to play it until I submit my thesis on of before September 19th.


 
  
 I'm looking forward to the Mankind Divided too. From what I've read from the reviews it seems like it's a strong sequel to a pretty good game. But currently I'm already spending most of my free time playing WOW and Overwatch, so I'm kind of torn between pre-ordering it now or wait until it's on sale.
  


music alchemist said:


> I'm glad Final Fantasy XIII-2 is available on PC now via Steam. (I played it for hundreds of hours on PS3.) But I won't really be able to play it on a PC until I upgrade to the custom desktop I'm planning. My Alienware M11x R2 laptop just doesn't handle things like it used to, and it overheats and shuts off when I push it too hard. RAM drives are making things easier, like with HD videos, but I doubt even that would fix things when it comes to HD games. I'd also like to use some sort of controller similar to PS3. I think you can actually use a PS3 controller on a PC with the right setup. Gaming with a keyboard is rather alien to me, aside from emulators.


 
  
 Yeah, I used to use MotioninJoy to connect PS3 controller and use DS4Windows now to connect PS4 controller to my PC. Action games play so much better on a controller.


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## Music Alchemist

buyao said:


> Yeah, I used to use MotioninJoy to connect PS3 controller and use DS4Windows now to connect PS4 controller to my PC. Action games play so much better on a controller.


 
  
 What I really enjoyed with the PS3 controller was controlling the 3D camera at the same time as moving around. Can't imagine how you're supposed to do that with a mouse!


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## buyao

music alchemist said:


> What I really enjoyed with the PS3 controller was controlling the 3D camera at the same time as moving around. Can't imagine how you're supposed to do that with a mouse!


 
  
 Well, it's still down to you left hand for movement/right hand for camera angle even with mouse and keyboard. It's just left hand fingers on WSAD and the entire right hand on the mouse instead of thumbs on analog sticks. Personally I find aiming faster and a lot easier with mouse, but I already had two decades of muscle memory built into my reflexes lol.


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## Music Alchemist

buyao said:


> Well, it's still down to you left hand for movement/right hand for camera angle even with mouse and keyboard. It's just left hand fingers on WSAD and the entire right hand on the mouse instead of thumbs on analog sticks. Personally I find aiming faster and a lot easier with mouse, but I already had two decades of muscle memory lol.


 
  
 I just can't imagine a keyboard and mouse giving me nearly as much control as PS3-style dual analog joysticks. Granted, if you want to quickly move to a certain area for aiming and such, a mouse has an advantage.


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## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> I just can't imagine a keyboard and mouse giving me nearly as much control as PS3-style dual analog joysticks. Granted, if you want to quickly move to a certain area for aiming and such, a mouse has an advantage.


 
  
 I couldn't imagine it either until I finally started using them.  So much more control and precision in most games, except for driving.
  
 It's a real shame none of those IR-LED analog mechanical keyboard switches came out.  Such as:
  

  
 The reliability and instant response time of a mechanical switch, but IR LED sensing to allow for 3 different "stages" of a keypress.  Kind of like pressure sensitive buttons which Sony controllers have, but much more reliable, durable, and faster response.  Aimpad in particular failed its Kickstarter sadly.


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## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> I couldn't imagine it either until I finally started using them.  So much more control and precision in most games, except for driving.
> 
> It's a real shame none of those IR-LED analog mechanical keyboard switches came out.  Such as:
> 
> The reliability and instant response time of a mechanical switch, but IR LED sensing to allow for 3 different "stages" of a keypress.  Kind of like pressure sensitive buttons which Sony controllers have, but much more reliable, durable, and faster response.  Aimpad in particular failed its Kickstarter sadly.


 
  
 Do they let you control movement of characters with as much precision as a PS3 joystick? A mouse can obviously move a camera around with precision, but what can a keyboard do to move characters with that level of control? (For example, the PS3 joystick lets you walk very slowly or run at full speed, control the exact angle at which you make turns, and so on.) All I know as far as moving characters around with a keyboard goes is the up, down, left, and right keys.


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## buyao

music alchemist said:


> Do they let you control movement of characters with as much precision as a PS3 joystick? A mouse can obviously move a camera around with precision, but what can a keyboard do to move characters with that level of control? (For example, the PS3 joystick lets you walk very slowly or run at full speed, control the exact angle at which you make turns, and so on.) All I know as far as moving characters around with a keyboard goes is the up, down, left, and right keys.


 
  
 Currently keyboard don't have that kind of precision control yet, the closest being the IR switch @Rhamnetin mentioned. That's part of the reason why I'm still using PS4 controller on my PC for some games. I tried playing Need for Speed on keyboard once and went to to buy a PC controller right away. 
  
 This is the website for the keyboard. Doesn't come cheap though.
 https://wooting.nl/


----------



## Music Alchemist

buyao said:


> Currently keyboard don't have that kind of precision control yet, the closest being the IR switch @Rhamnetin mentioned. That's part of the reason why I'm still using PS4 controller on my PC for some games. I tried playing Need for Speed on keyboard once and went to to buy a PC controller right away.
> 
> This is the website for the keyboard. Doesn't come cheap though.
> https://wooting.nl/


 
  
 That's what I thought. It just seems you'd need a controller of some sort for that.


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> Do they let you control movement of characters with as much precision as a PS3 joystick? A mouse can obviously move a camera around with precision, but what can a keyboard do to move characters with that level of control? (For example, the PS3 joystick lets you walk very slowly or run at full speed, control the exact angle at which you make turns, and so on.) All I know as far as moving characters around with a keyboard goes is the up, down, left, and right keys.


 
  
 Let's say you want to walk instead of run.  On keyboard, this is done either with a key that toggles between run and walk speed, or a key that is held in conjunction with the move keys which slows down your pace.  So you get a wider range of movement speeds with controller.  With mouse and keyboard, you won't find more than 3, and 2 is what's common.  
  
 For free look in a normal third person game, PC games will achieve this by holding either a key or a mouse button and then moving the mouse.  This mouse movement will instead move the camera instead of your character.
  
 You should try out ArmA 3 one day.  It is a military simulator type game that showcases some of the most advanced and diverse movements, and has far too much functionality for a controller.  It also lets you bind functions to macro key combos, like double clicking a key or pressing two keys at once.
  
 If you look up videos of the game Dishonored, an advanced stealth/action game, you can do so much more in games like that with mouse and keyboard.  That game on mouse and keyboard, especially at 120 FPS with blur reduction, showcases a level of fluidity that is mind boggling and unlike anything else.  Shadow Warrior as well, but it doesn't have the same kind of advanced movement or platforming.  Sleeping Dogs melee combat is another game in which mouse and keyboard unexpectedly comes in handy so much, being more intuitive than controller.


----------



## Coq de Combat

chef8489 said:


> Forgot about my Atari 2600. I guess I also was a console gamer as far as the nes and atari are concerned, but did pc game a back to the comodore 64 and apple II


 
 You're not supposed to forget the Atari 2600! Blasphemy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My god has graphics taken a turn for the better. I remember a basketball game on the Atari. Wow. Just look at it:
  

  
 I also remember Pitfall II.
  

  
 As for the Commodore, of course I enjoyed the usual suspects when it came to games, I mean, who _didn't_ like Rambo. However, one of my absolute favorites was Law Of The West:
  

  
 Oh memories. Bonus, Rambo music:
  

  
 Back when game music was actually sids/mods, bitpop and chiptunes! Perhaps my childhood is the reason that I STILL listen to music like this!? I have like 4-5 playlists on Spotify with chiptunes, LOL ..


----------



## Music Alchemist

coq de combat said:


> Back when game music was actually sids/mods, bitpop and chiptunes! Perhaps my childhood is the reason that I STILL listen to music like this!? I have like 4-5 playlists on Spotify with chiptunes, LOL ..


 
  
 Video game music is so awesome, both old and new.
  
 Check out this artist. He combines hip hop with video game music! Highlights include Final Fantasy, Mega Man, and Castlevania. Lots of his music is free too.
  
 http://megaranmusic.com


----------



## Coq de Combat

music alchemist said:


> Video game music is so awesome, both old and new.
> 
> Check out this artist. He combines hip hop with video game music! Highlights include Final Fantasy, Mega Man, and Castlevania. Lots of his music is free too.
> 
> http://megaranmusic.com


 
 Didn't know about him, thanks. I usually listen to more "pure" chiptunes like..
  

  

  
 Luckily Sweden has myriads of great chiptune artists.


----------



## oqvist

rhamnetin said:


> Let's say you want to walk instead of run.  On keyboard, this is done either with a key that toggles between run and walk speed, or a key that is held in conjunction with the move keys which slows down your pace.  So you get a wider range of movement speeds with controller.  With mouse and keyboard, you won't find more than 3, and 2 is what's common.
> 
> For free look in a normal third person game, PC games will achieve this by holding either a key or a mouse button and then moving the mouse.  This mouse movement will instead move the camera instead of your character.
> 
> ...


 
 Still there is a reason why platformers are easier with analogue joysticks then WASD. In a lot of games all you want is to change direction quick then WASD works. It´s not tricky to navigate yourself around a corner like it´s to do some of the stunts in super mario 3D. And of course aiming is just faster and more precise and accurate with a mouse.
  
 Games like Thief for example the ability to control your walking speed give gamepads an edge. You shouldn´t have to aim anywhere or you are doing things wrong so yes analogue joysticks allow for more controlled movements then WASD. The limited set of buttons forces the game to be more streamlined for good and bad. 
  
 I am neither. I do 95 % of my gaming on PC. I don´t understand why it´s an either or. If you are a gamer you run games on every platform right?


----------



## Music Alchemist

oqvist said:


> I am neither. I do 95 % of my gaming on PC. I don´t understand why it´s an either or. If you are a gamer you run games on every platform right?


 
  
 Yes, plenty of gamers use both PC and consoles. Although the thread title may imply "either or", it really just means "Which platforms do you game on: PC, consoles, or both?"


----------



## Vigrith

Console gaming in 2016
  

  
  
 No but really, last game I played on console was MGS 3 Snake Eater in like 2004 and it changed my life, no console exclusives have felt worth it to me after that. There's a couple interesting releases every year or two but it's not really worth buying every generation just to play those. I don't really play PC games nowadays either, most online multiplayer games started to get boring after like like 15 years so I mostly just go on steam sale bargain sprees every time and I end up playing a fair bit of single player ones.


----------



## Rhamnetin

oqvist said:


> Still there is a reason why platformers are easier with analogue joysticks then WASD. In a lot of games all you want is to change direction quick then WASD works. It´s not tricky to navigate yourself around a corner like it´s to do some of the stunts in super mario 3D. And of course aiming is just faster and more precise and accurate with a mouse.
> 
> Games like Thief for example the ability to control your walking speed give gamepads an edge. You shouldn´t have to aim anywhere or you are doing things wrong so yes analogue joysticks allow for more controlled movements then WASD. The limited set of buttons forces the game to be more streamlined for good and bad.
> 
> I am neither. I do 95 % of my gaming on PC. I don´t understand why it´s an either or. If you are a gamer you run games on every platform right?


 
  
 Yeah certain platformers, but not all, are generally easier with a controller.  Although Thief isn't a very good example, because in this game you will be pointing your character in the direction you want to go.  Although its platforming is very limited, which is why I used Dishonored as an example as it's a similar but far more complex game.  The platforming in this game relies a lot on aiming, so mouse provides a huge edge especially since the platforming is combined with pressing a key or button to climb a ledge, and/or mid-air attacks.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

I am a recently converted PC gamer, but I try not to look down on any type of gaming (exept the origional wii. I play video games to avoid exercise thank you very much.) I was an Xbox user until I got my Alienware 17r3 and now I play PC because the games are cheaper and the graphics are better. I still miss the ease of a controller though, thinking of getting one.
One problem I've found with PC however is that it is almost impossible to play older games online (especially fps games) without being bombarded by people who've hacked and modded their way to tyranny on the game. I absolutely loved CoD MW2, but when I went to download it on steam I learned via reveiws it was so plauged by hackers that the multiplayer was basically unplayable. That made me very sad.


----------



## Music Alchemist

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> One problem I've found with PC however is that it is almost impossible to play older games online (especially fps games) without being bombarded by people who've hacked and modded their way to tyranny on the game. I absolutely loved CoD MW2, but when I went to download it on steam I learned via reveiws it was so plauged by hackers that the multiplayer was basically unplayable. That made me very sad.


 
  
 Reminds me of this South Park episode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_Love,_Not_Warcraft


----------



## Rhamnetin

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> I am a recently converted PC gamer, but I try not to look down on any type of gaming (exept the origional wii. I play video games to avoid exercise thank you very much.) I was an Xbox user until I got my Alienware 17r3 and now I play PC because the games are cheaper and the graphics are better. I still miss the ease of a controller though, thinking of getting one.
> One problem I've found with PC however is that it is almost impossible to play older games online (especially fps games) without being bombarded by people who've hacked and modded their way to tyranny on the game. I absolutely loved CoD MW2, but when I went to download it on steam I learned via reveiws it was so plauged by hackers that the multiplayer was basically unplayable. That made me very sad.


 
  
 Yeah if you miss a controller, get one.  Although I find mouse and keyboard much easier to use myself.
  
 Older online games are indeed filled with hackers, but old online games are either unplayable on console due to shut down servers or unplayable due to a lack of players.  Pick your poison I guess.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

music alchemist said:


> Reminds me of this South Park episode:



Wow. Read the plot synopsis and just wow. I could see something like that acrually happening though. When CoD MW3 came out one of the kids at my school played it until the disk melted in his Xbox. (26 hours)


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

rhamnetin said:


> Yeah if you miss a controller, get one.  Although I find mouse and keyboard much easier to use myself.
> 
> Older online games are indeed filled with hackers, but old online games are either unplayable on console due to shut down servers or unplayable due to a lack of players.  Pick your poison I guess.



I don't think MW2 will ever run out of players, some CoD players consider it the peak of CoD online gameplay (as I do). I've since gotten Battlefield Bad Company 2 on steam and the punkbuster system seems pretty good at keeping hackers out. I enjoy playing it, but the only game type still available is squad deathmatch, and 4 teams of 4 is a bit too much for me. I'd rather have 2 teams of 8. Full games are always too busy for me, and it's hard to get a game with 4-6 players.


----------



## octiceps

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> I've since gotten Battlefield Bad Company 2 on steam and the punkbuster system seems pretty good at keeping hackers out. I enjoy playing it, but the only game type still available is squad deathmatch, and 4 teams of 4 is a bit too much for me. I'd rather have 2 teams of 8. Full games are always too busy for me, and it's hard to get a game with 4-6 players.




You should try Rush if you haven't already. That's BC2's best mode IMO. I find BC2 still fun for a casual romp every now and then, but the floaty movement and controls and input quirks are almost impossible to try to play competitively. Whichever designer thought visual recoil (where your crosshairs float around randomly on-screen in ADS) while suppressed, or who made vehicle turret turn speed much slower than hipfire with no way to adjust it, should be smacked upside the head.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

octiceps said:


> You should try Rush if you haven't already. That's BC2's best mode IMO. I find BC2 still fun for a casual romp every now and then, but the floaty movement and controls and input quirks are almost impossible to try to play competitively. Whichever designer thought visual recoil (where your crosshairs float around randomly on-screen in ADS) while suppressed, or who made vehicle turret turn speed much slower than hipfire with no way to adjust it, should be smacked upside the head.



As far as I know there are no game modes other than SQDM. Usually I end up playing with like 4 level 50s. As a level 6 can get a bit tedious, but I refuse to play the new call of duty as all that I've played of the newer CoDs multiplayer just makes me hate it more. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but I felt that they had it right back with MW2, and now they constantly add more unnecessary things that seem to take away form the overall experience. I'm more of a minimalist though, and that's why Battlefield immediately attracted me.


----------



## octiceps

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> As far as I know there are no game modes other than SQDM. Usually I end up playing with like 4 level 50s. As a level 6 can get a bit tedious, but I refuse to play the new call of duty as all that I've played of the newer CoDs multiplayer just makes me hate it more. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but I felt that they had it right back with MW2, and now they constantly add more unnecessary things that seem to take away form the overall experience. I'm more of a minimalist though, and that's why Battlefield immediately attracted me.


 
  
 Really? Your server filter settings must be too restrictive then. I'm on the West Coast and have no trouble finding full 32-player Conquest and Rush servers at pretty much any time of the day. Battlefield is hardly minimalist though as it's combined arms warfare. Minimalist would be like CS:GO or arena shooters. Although the Bad Company series is more minimalistic than the main Battlefield series since it's half the number of max players and a lot more infantry-focused with smaller, tighter maps and lack of jets and other vehicles.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

octiceps said:


> Really? Your server filter settings must be too restrictive then. I'm on the West Coast and have no trouble finding full 32-player Conquest and Rush servers at pretty much any time of the day. Battlefield is hardly minimalist though as it's combined arms warfare. Minimalist would be like CS:GO or arena shooters. Although the Bad Company series is more minimalistic than the main Battlefield series since it's half the number of max players and a lot more infantry- focused with smaller, tighter maps and lack of jets and other vehicles.



Hmm... Not sure. I'll look into it.
Yeah. I love small maps with no vehicles and limited weapon and perk combinations. They bring an amazing sense of balance and skill to the game, especially when no weapon is "all powerful greatest weapon in the game have to be a certain level to get it". I spent a lot of summers playing MW 2 and Black Ops. I still have both on my 360, but I'm about to move into a dorm and I've opted against bringing a gaming system and tv and decided to just bring my laptop.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Was a console heavy gamer, but the past 2 years or so, I have found myself buying PC version of games, mainly because you can optimize them any way you want. I'm still someone who NEEDS to use a gamepad, so I don't benefit from keyboard and mouse (as I never learned to correctly use a keyboard, and have to look at it to type.) Trying to play PC games with a keyboard is alien to me, and I can't find myself adjusting every time I try. It physically bothers me to have my fingers rest on the asdf jkl; keys, so I rather type by pecking with my index fingers. I've been doing it for like 20 years now, so I'm good at it in this way.

I any case, games are pretty much guaranteed to be cheaper on PC, with massive discounts a lot of the time.

The only time I play on consoles is for exclusives, and for multiplayer FPS games, simply because I can stay competitive on consoles, whereas I would get destroyed on PC by keyboard users. So say, CoD, I'll definitely lean heavily on playing it on PS4 instead of PC.

I DO prefer playing my JRPGs on console, mainly because it feels weird playing them on PC, but that's something I'm also moving towards PC now that JRPGs are making a huge swing towards releasing on PC.

I do feel bad about my PS4 pretty much collecting dust, but it only gets used when the rare exclusive releases, like Uncharted 4.


----------



## youurayy

PC gamer myself. But not exactly. The only game I play is a modified Quake 3 -- I named the mod "Impluse". Railgun only, unlimited ammo, 300ms reload time. 100 frags in ~8 minutes in q3dm9 with 4 bots at skill 3. It's kinda like martial art. Had to try about 5 mouse pads and 3 mice (at 16k native DPI now) until I found the combo that can keep up with this.
  
 (I also happen to be the guy implementing a Q3 bugfix which slashed the input latency to half, so that goes rather well with my mod.)
  
 I have very little time to waste so compressing this much action (I play 2 levels in one session usually) into about 20 minutes gameplay around 2 - 3 times a day just does it for me -- very very effective. Startup of the game takes about 10 seconds (console commands). In total I have about 5 favorite levels I can play with top enjoyment (the GTX980-hungry lun3dm5 is among them).
  
 Not even going into VR at this time - it can't help here - if I tried to turn my head at the speed I'm turning my head with the mouse, I'd have to break my neck (with VR glasses flying across the room).
  
 With all this said - I think consoles may be a lot of fun with other types of games, and I may even try some at some point when I feel like I have more time to spend. There are things in the general PC gaming area that I loathe -- the fact that I can't buy a game on Steam because I live in a different country that my credit card was issued for (and I'm not going to fiddle with gift certificates), or the fact that with a new game or driver install I am putting my Windows 10 install at risk, the fact that Linux gaming still sucks due to AMD / Valve impotency, etc. Console may just be a really nice way to spend time on long winter evenings.


----------



## Rhamnetin

youurayy said:


> With all this said - I think consoles may be a lot of fun with other types of games, and I may even try some at some point when I feel like I have more time to spend. There are things in the general PC gaming area that I loathe -- the fact that I can't buy a game on Steam because I live in a different country that my credit card was issued for (and I'm not going to fiddle with gift certificates), or the fact that with a new game or driver install I am putting my Windows 10 install at risk, the fact that Linux gaming still sucks due to AMD / Valve impotency, etc. Console may just be a really nice way to spend time on long winter evenings.


 
  
 Game or driver install putting Windows 10 install at risk?  How?
  
 Also the solution to your first issue would be to not rely too much on Steam, but yeah it's very annoying especially when you consider how important Steam is.  Origin isn't like that to my knowledge.
  
 Valve has been pushing more for Linux support lately since they are at war with Microsoft.  So we may see things improve on Linux.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never had a problem with game installs doing anything to Windows 7, 8, 10. Whether Steam, Origin, Uplay, etc.


----------



## youurayy

rhamnetin said:


> Game or driver install putting Windows 10 install at risk?  How?
> 
> Also the solution to your first issue would be to not rely too much on Steam, but yeah it's very annoying especially when you consider how important Steam is.  Origin isn't like that to my knowledge.
> 
> Valve has been pushing more for Linux support lately since they are at war with Microsoft.  So we may see things improve on Linux.


 
  


mad lust envy said:


> Never had a problem with game installs doing anything to Windows 7, 8, 10. Whether Steam, Origin, Uplay, etc.


 
  
 Google search for "windows game install issues" turns up about 27 million results. I know these don't all relate to Windows stability itself, but I did mean it in a broader sense. Also, I'm well aware of the System Restore point feature, but still, I just prefer my PC working (I do my work on it) and any install or driver upgrade is a very real risk of breaking things, and then having to waste precious time fixing them. Not going into companies trying to install increasing amount of bloat alongside the actual game software. Consoles don't have this problem, and I can buy PS4 discs on Amazon. So that.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mad lust envy said:


> Was a console heavy gamer, but the past 2 years or so, I have found myself buying PC version of games, mainly because you can optimize them any way you want. I'm still someone who NEEDS to use a gamepad, so I don't benefit from keyboard and mouse (as I never learned to correctly use a keyboard, and have to look at it to type.) Trying to play PC games with a keyboard is alien to me, and I can't find myself adjusting every time I try. It physically bothers me to have my fingers rest on the asdf jkl; keys, so I rather type by pecking with my index fingers. I've been doing it for like 20 years now, so I'm good at it in this way.
> 
> I any case, games are pretty much guaranteed to be cheaper on PC, with massive discounts a lot of the time.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The legendary Mad Lust Envy appears!
  
 That's quite unexpected about the keyboard thing. Although I learned how to type as a child, I just don't like keyboards for gaming. So once I become more of a PC gamer, I'd still insist on connecting a controller of some kind most of the time.
  
 I'm really bummed that the PS4 has almost no backwards compatibility. They always talked about how they plan on eventually having universal compatibility, with all previous PlayStation games released digitally...but who knows how long that will take. As of now you can't even download and play PSone Classics. PS3 games that can be downloaded from the PlayStation Store also are not available for PS4. I think it's actually a legal/licensing issue, since technologically speaking, it would be easy for them to make all this stuff available. Until they get that taken care of, I think PS3 and PS Vita are a better choice, since the only appeal of PS4 at the moment is the exclusive games.


----------



## Rhamnetin

youurayy said:


> Google search for "windows game install issues" turns up about 27 million results. I know these don't all relate to Windows stability itself, but I did mean it in a broader sense. Also, I'm well aware of the System Restore point feature, but still, I just prefer my PC working (I do my work on it) and any install or driver upgrade is a very real risk of breaking things, and then having to waste precious time fixing them. Not going into companies trying to install increasing amount of bloat alongside the actual game software. Consoles don't have this problem, and I can buy PS4 discs on Amazon. So that.


 
  
 That risk, especially on Windows 7 and newer, is really just user error.


----------



## MikePio

Console gamer all the way here! I guess I have a certain sentimentality towards consoles, I basically grew up with them. Sega Genesis was my first console while my friend had the Super Nintendo Entertainment System. I loved to play Sonic, Jurassic park and Mortal Kombat... Good times. After that I bought the Playstation one while my friend had the Nintendo 64. My next console was Xbox and after that Xbox 360. Now I have a MSI laptop that I use for gaming but I miss and wish I had a console system. I feel that in PC i tend to focus too much on graphics and play around with so many options... with a console you just plug it in and play. I guess it just depends on the person I guess. My dream would be to get the upcoming PS4 (4K) edition... on a big screen TV... That would be a dream.


----------



## Rhamnetin

mikepio said:


> Console gamer all the way here! I guess I have a certain sentimentality towards consoles, I basically grew up with them. Sega Genesis was my first console while my friend had the Super Nintendo Entertainment System. I loved to play Sonic, Jurassic park and Mortal Kombat... Good times. After that I bought the Playstation one while my friend had the Nintendo 64. My next console was Xbox and after that Xbox 360. Now I have a MSI laptop that I use for gaming but I miss and wish I had a console system. I feel that in PC i tend to focus too much on graphics and play around with so many options... with a console you just plug it in and play. I guess it just depends on the person I guess. My dream would be to get the upcoming PS4 (4K) edition... on a big screen TV... That would be a dream.


 
  
 Honestly you can just plug and play games on PC too, it seems you just get distracted by the options.  As did I at first, I also grew up with consoles, although I was fascinated by the options instead.
  
 Things like GeForce Experience exist for those who don't want to configure settings, although I will always recommend understanding settings instead.
  
 I wager your laptop is another barrier.  You'd probably enjoy PC gaming more if you had a PC hooked up to a nice TV, and played with a controller.  A lot of people forget this is an option.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> Console gamer all the way here! I guess I have a certain sentimentality towards consoles, I basically grew up with them. Sega Genesis was my first console while my friend had the Super Nintendo Entertainment System. I loved to play Sonic, Jurassic park and Mortal Kombat... Good times. After that I bought the Playstation one while my friend had the Nintendo 64.


 
  
 Your post brings back so many happy memories! I want to list all the games I like, but it would be really long.
  
 I trust you played this?
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_Park_2:_The_Chaos_Continues


----------



## MikePio

rhamnetin said:


> Honestly you can just plug and play games on PC too, it seems you just get distracted by the options.  As did I at first, I also grew up with consoles, although I was fascinated by the options instead.
> 
> Things like GeForce Experience exist for those who don't want to configure settings, although I will always recommend understanding settings instead.
> 
> I wager your laptop is another barrier.  You'd probably enjoy PC gaming more if you had a PC hooked up to a nice TV, and played with a controller.  A lot of people forget this is an option.


 
  
 I guess the main issue for me is the price. This swings the favor to consoles for me. I can purchase a PS4 for around 400 dollars. To be able to play games on medium to high settings these days you need a PC gaming unit at least 1 grand or over. Though I have a friend who has a full gaming computer and the graphics and options available are truly amazing. 


music alchemist said:


> Your post brings back so many happy memories! I want to list all the games I like, but it would be really long.
> 
> I trust you played this?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_Park_2:_The_Chaos_Continues


 
  Haha, yes the bittersweet nostalgia! Though I had the Sega Genesis near that time so I would have playing the first one I believe, the one you mentioned is only for the Super Nintendo System (which my friend had) so I am familiar with it. Brilliant games. Same here, there are so many amazing games from those days. Perhaps it was the magic of childhood that made them so special or they were really that good...


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

mikepio said:


> Haha, yes the bittersweet nostalgia! Though I had the Sega Genesis near that time so I would have playing the first one I believe, the one you mentioned is only for the Super Nintendo System (which my friend had) so I am familiar with it. Brilliant games. Same here, there are so many amazing games from those days. Perhaps it was the magic of childhood that made them so special or they were really that good...



I'm only 18, so my first console was a PlayStation 2. I still remember playing Sly Cooper and Enter the Matrix. I was really too young to know how to play, and I lent the matrix to a freind (who soon moved and took it) and sly cooper broke before I could beat it. I wonder if I went back and played those two games again if they would still be good?


----------



## Music Alchemist

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> I'm only 18, so my first console was a PlayStation 2. I still remember playing Sly Cooper and Enter the Matrix. I was really too young to know how to play, and I lent the matrix to a freind (who soon moved and took it) and sly cooper broke before I could beat it. I wonder if I went back and played those two games again if they would still be good?


 
  
 You don't know what you've missed! In some ways, nothing comes close to the older games.
  
 I'm 29. Here are the consoles I have owned, in chronological order of their release:
  
 home: NES, Sega Genesis, Sega Pico, Super NES, PlayStation, Nintendo 64, GameCube, PlayStation 3, Wii
 handheld: Game Boy Advance SP, PlayStation Portable, Nintendo 3DS, PlayStation Vita
  
 I've also played just as many other consoles.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

music alchemist said:


> You don't know what you've missed! In some ways, nothing comes close to the older games.
> 
> I'm 29. Here are the consoles I have owned, in chronological order of their release:
> 
> ...



Yeah, once I'm older (and hopefully a lot richer XD) I'm going to look for those old consoles and games, and I hope to get my freinds together to play with me and start a YouTube channel to put those let's plays on. That would be awesome.


----------



## MikePio

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> I'm only 18, so my first console was a PlayStation 2. I still remember playing Sly Cooper and Enter the Matrix. I was really too young to know how to play, and I lent the matrix to a freind (who soon moved and took it) and sly cooper broke before I could beat it. I wonder if I went back and played those two games again if they would still be good?


 
  
 That is a good question. I wonder the same thing sometimes, looking back in retrospect it seems certain games had an aura of awesomeness about them even though when I look at the graphics I sometimes shudder. I think and would like to believe that certain video games (classics) will forever be amazing, regardless of time and technological advancements. A perfect example of this is Elder Scrolls Morrowind, still an amazing game that in my opinion competes or surpasses Skyrim. I guess a classic game is like a classic album in its given genre, always a nice warm feeling when you listen to it, irrespective of time.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

mikepio said:


> That is a good question. I wonder the same thing sometimes, looking back in retrospect it seems certain games had an aura of awesomeness about them even though when I look at the graphics I sometimes shudder. I think and would like to believe that certain video games (classics) will forever be amazing, regardless of time and technological advancements. A perfect example of this is Elder Scrolls Morrowind, still an amazing game that in my opinion competes or surpasses Skyrim. I guess a classic game is like a classic album in its given genre, always a nice warm feeling when you listen to it, irrespective of time.



For me replaying those games would be great just for the nostalgia and melancholy associated with them. (My two favorite emotions!)
I'm sure playing the games I enjoyed as a child now would be bad, the games themself (other than Sly Cooper) weren't very good games. Another one I forgot was Spider-Man. I played Spider-Man waaaay back in the first grade.


----------



## MikePio

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> For me replaying those games would be great just for the nostalgia and melancholy associated with them. (My two favorite emotions!)
> I'm sure playing the games I enjoyed as a child now would be bad, the games themself (other than Sly Cooper) weren't very good games. Another one I forgot was Spider-Man. I played Spider-Man waaaay back in the first grade.


 
 Nostalgia and melancholy... pretty much sums up my entire adult life 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not sure whether that is a good or bad thing... I mean if the game was rated a classic back then, I am sure it is still an amazing game to play now. I recently played Zelda Ocarina Of Time again (on the 2DS), and I was blown away by the game. At first I thought it was childish (sorry if I offend any die hard fans here) since now I was an adult, but after playing it I forgot everything and was simply mesmerized. Ocarina of time first came out in 1998 on the Nintendo 64. Nintendo is a good example of how solid and truly great games don't change much over the years, what made a great game 10 years ago still in some way applies today. Graphics in my opinion is way overrated. I would rather play a pixelated game with a good story, atmosphere and musical score than some mega shooter with mind blowing graphics.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> Nostalgia and melancholy... pretty much sums up my entire adult life
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Shoulda played the 3D version on the 3DS. (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) The graphics are sooo much better than the original N64 version. (Not sure if you ever played the original.) I'm definitely gonna buy all that stuff again someday. (Sold off most of my games and systems.)


----------



## MikePio

music alchemist said:


> Shoulda played the 3D version on the 3DS. (
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I actually had the New 3DS XL but ended up giving it away... (which later I was sorry for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and since I didn't want to buy the 3DS again and spend close to 300 dollars I got the 2DS instead. I recommend it to someone who doesn't want to pay the price of the 3DS and still wants to play all the 3ds and 2ds games, just without the bigger screen and 3D. Though the biggest screen on the 3ds XL has the same resolution as the 2ds. So the 2DS actually looks sharper and more vibrant with a smaller screen. Also it was like 100 dollars here with Mario Kart 7 included and a charger. Pretty good considering the base price for the 3DS XL with no Mario Kart or game and no charger is close to 300 here. But yes, I do miss the 3D for certain games for sure! I want to make a collection one day of all the classic games and console systems. Dream!


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> I actually had the New 3DS XL but ended up giving it away... (which later I was sorry for
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I didn't realize 2DS and DS were different things until looking it up just now. No wonder I never heard of it: it was only announced in 2013.
  
 Anyway, the 3D feature was pretty epic with Zelda. I didn't like any of the other games nearly as much.
  
 A Link To The Past (on SNES and now Wii digital) is still my favorite Zelda game.


----------



## Deftone

Pc gamer here since 2008 i just love the smoothness from a much higher frame rate and then better  graphics is a bonus too.


----------



## MikePio

I think this might answer the PC vs Console preference. Don't laugh... Just bought this two days ago 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Yes it is a wallet...


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## Deftone

Why would we laugh?


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

If you put in the konami code does it auto refill? If so where can I buy one!


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## MikePio

deftone said:


> Why would we laugh?


 
  
 My girlfriend laughs all the time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Says she is embarrassed when I pay for things... I think it is time for a new one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> If you put in the konami code does it auto refill? If so where can I buy one!


 
 Hehehehe... I wish! Perhaps I should check


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## Amish

mikepio said:


> My girlfriend laughs all the time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So thats what I need to get my wife to pay for things in my stead! Great idea!


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## MikePio

amish said:


> So thats what I need to get my wife to pay for things in my stead! Great idea!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mikepio said:


> I guess the main issue for me is the price. This swings the favor to consoles for me. I can purchase a PS4 for around 400 dollars. To be able to play games on medium to high settings these days you need a PC gaming unit at least 1 grand or over.




This is simply not true. 

You can get by with a $600 rig that spanks the hell out of the PS4. I haven't paid more than $15 for a game on PC outside of select few brand new releases, which I tend to pay $40 on. After like 2-3 months, most games drop to about $20, a few months after, they're like $5-$15. PC gaming literally pays for itself.

I say this as someone who grew up with an Atari, Nintendo, and such forth. PC gaming is relatively new to me, getting heavily into it the past 2-3 years. Nowadays, it literally makes little sense for me to get a console version of games, unless you just prefer the ecosystem. PC games are absolutely, undeniably a cheaper solution with a little common sense.

$1000 PCs is for those who want to game in 1440p or more, and/or are using their PCs for more than just gaming heavily.


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## Music Alchemist

mad lust envy said:


> This is simply not true.
> 
> You can get by with a $600 rig that spanks the hell out of the PS4. I haven't paid more than $15 for a game on PC outside of select few brand new releases, which I tend to pay $40 on. After like 2-3 months, most games drop to about $20, a few months after, they're like $5-$15. PC gaming literally pays for itself.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep, custom desktop PCs get you excellent performance at lower prices. I wish I would have known that before I spent $1,400 on my Alienware laptop that has serious build quality and cooling issues. When I first got it, it could pretty much do anything I wanted, but years later it can't handle heavy gaming and is literally falling apart at the hinges.


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## Vigrith

mad lust envy said:


> This is simply not true.
> 
> You can get by with a $600 rig that spanks the hell out of the PS4. I haven't paid more than $15 for a game on PC outside of select few brand new releases, which I tend to pay $40 on. After like 2-3 months, most games drop to about $20, a few months after, they're like $5-$15. PC gaming literally pays for itself.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I really don't think an argument can be made for PC gaming being more expensive than console unless the person at hand buys like 5 games a year.
  
 I cannot attest for a $600 build beating a PS4 because I've not bought a console in years but you are definitely correct when it comes to game prices - when I stopped caring for them in like 2002/2004 the main reason (well, that and World of Warcraft came out) I did was because the brand new releases were costing upward of 60 or even 70 euro, bare in mind I live in a country where minimum wage is barely $400. How complete and utterly ridiculous is that? Prices kept going up even further too, I remember in like 2007 ish new Xbox games were costing EIGHTY euro a pop.
  
 Last 15 or something years I've been playing PC games practically every single one I've bought cost me under $20, with the *vast *majority being between 5 and 10 - steam sales are a beautiful thing. Last time I spent $50 on a new game was when GTA 5 came out and before that I probably hadn't done it in like 5 years.
  
 That said, graphics are a huge part of why I've stuck with computers for so long now of course and whilst I don't play in 1440p nor do I use my PC for video editing or anything heavier than gaming mine cost me multiples of $1000 to build. I just enjoy having 200-300 FPS on ultra in every game and being future proof but this is 100% not necessary for anyone starting out.
  
 Another huge plus when it comes to computers is that you can gradually upgrade, for example I started my 6700k Skylake build a year ago now when they first came out and it was perfectly usable but I still had my old 960 until the new 1080 came out couple months ago, same goes for a super old 550W PSU I'd been using for 4 years - recently swapped out for a 1200W EVGA. As long as you match chips and stuff you can gradually work on your build at a pace your budget/income allows.


----------



## Music Alchemist

vigrith said:


> I really don't think an argument can be made for PC gaming being more expensive than console unless the person at hand buys like 5 games a year.
> 
> I cannot attest for a $600 build beating a PS4 because I've not bought a console in years but you are definitely correct when it comes to game prices - when I stopped caring for them in like 2002/2004 the main reason (well, that and World of Warcraft came out) I did was because the brand new releases were costing upward of 60 or even 70 euro, bare in mind I live in a country where minimum wage is barely $400. How complete and utterly ridiculous is that? Prices kept going up even further too, I remember in like 2007 ish new Xbox games were costing EIGHTY euro a pop.
> 
> Last 15 or something years I've been playing PC games practically every single one I've bought cost me under $20, with the *vast *majority being between 5 and 10 - steam sales are a beautiful thing. Last time I spent $50 on a new game was when GTA 5 came out and before that I probably hadn't done it in like 5 years.


 
  
 Back when I made good money (like $3,400 on my best _day_), I frequently bought new console games...and felt taken advantage of when I came to my senses. Those same games that were $60 or more were only $20 or so mere months later, and even lower for used copies. I also spent quite a bit on DLC, which can't be resold. I still think spending a lot on limited edition box sets and the like can be fun...as long as you don't sell them at a loss later. I spent thousands on Final Fantasy soundtracks alone, and when I sold them due to wanting quick cash, I didn't get much for them at all, despite many being very rare.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

music alchemist said:


> Yep, custom desktop PCs get you excellent performance at lower prices. I wish I would have known that before I spent $1,400 on my Alienware laptop that has serious build quality and cooling issues. When I first got it, it could pretty much do anything I wanted, but years later it can't handle heavy gaming and is literally falling apart at the hinges.



I'm hoping my Alienware will last me through college. It seems Alienware has upped the build quality recently, but I'm not 100% sure about that yet. I've only had it a month.


----------



## Vigrith

music alchemist said:


> Back when I made good money (like $3,400 on my best _day_), I frequently bought new console games...and felt taken advantage of when I came to my senses. Those same games that were $60 or more were only $20 or so mere months later, and even lower for used copies. I also spent quite a bit on DLC, which can't be resold. I still think spending a lot on limited edition box sets and the like can be fun...as long as you don't sell them at a loss later. I spent thousands on Final Fantasy soundtracks alone, and when I sold them due to wanting quick cash, I didn't get much for them at all, despite many being very rare.


 
  
 I'm not struggling financially but when put into perspective console game prices on release are so exorbitant that I could never bring myself to do it regardless, no matter how little that amount means to me. Limited edition sets and boxes are a different thing though, I am a gigantic sucker for exclusivity no matter what - I have a fair bit of those and I don't regret buying them, though if it were now maybe I would think twice before spending $300 on a Gran Turismo Signature Edition and $400 on Resident Evil's 5th Anniversary LE. I just like owning those sort of things, regardless of whether or not they're related to video games.
  
 PS: At least the Resi 6 Premium Edition didn't release in Portugal thankfully else I'd feel tempted to get that too.


----------



## MikePio

mad lust envy said:


> This is simply not true.
> 
> You can get by with a $600 rig that spanks the hell out of the PS4. I haven't paid more than $15 for a game on PC outside of select few brand new releases, which I tend to pay $40 on. After like 2-3 months, most games drop to about $20, a few months after, they're like $5-$15. PC gaming literally pays for itself.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Perhaps in the US you can get a 600 dollar computer but where I live it will be close to 1K to play modern games at medium setting at 1080p. PC gaming is obviously the more logical choice, more options, more flexibility, more content and the list goes on... but I have owned a laptop I used for gaming every now and then (with an xbox controller) and I never enjoy it as much as when I had the Xbox 360 for example. Perhaps it is just preference or the memories associated with the console experience. I just remember the days I still had my 50" plasma screen and the Xbox and loads of controllers, had friends come over and play Forza or play Dark Souls in the late hours of the night with my best friend... I feel like PC is able to do that but you run into problems... For example... My friend and I used to love to play left4dead 2 via xbox, it was always a smooth playing experience. Later at his house we only had a PC, so we hooked it up to the TV and set up the game on steam, got the patch for the multiplayer... and it was buggy and full of glitches. We were both disappointed. Perhaps that is just one bad experience but I still prefer the console hands down.
  


music alchemist said:


> Yep, custom desktop PCs get you excellent performance at lower prices. I wish I would have known that before I spent $1,400 on my Alienware laptop that has serious build quality and cooling issues. When I first got it, it could pretty much do anything I wanted, but years later it can't handle heavy gaming and is literally falling apart at the hinges.


 
  
 I am having the same problem with my MSI gaming laptop... It is starting to fall apart, I removed the back plate cover to increase cooling and re-pasted all the CPU and GPU but still... I feel like the end is near.


----------



## Rhamnetin

mikepio said:


> Perhaps it is just preference or the memories associated with the console experience. I just remember the days I still had my 50" plasma screen and the Xbox and loads of controllers, had friends come over and play Forza or play Dark Souls in the late hours of the night with my best friend... I feel like PC is able to do that but you run into problems... For example... My friend and I used to love to play left4dead 2 via xbox, it was always a smooth playing experience. Later at his house we only had a PC, so we hooked it up to the TV and set up the game on steam, got the patch for the multiplayer... and it was buggy and full of glitches. We were both disappointed. Perhaps that is just one bad experience but I still prefer the console hands down.


 
  
 What kinds of bugs and glitches, if you remember?  Left 4 Dead games, and any Valve game, are much better on PC since that's where Valve's focus is.


----------



## MikePio

rhamnetin said:


> What kinds of bugs and glitches, if you remember?  Left 4 Dead games, and any Valve game, are much better on PC since that's where Valve's focus is.


 
  
 For single player support I have no doubt, but multiplayer split screen not so much. We had difficultly with the split screen and only one of the controllers would work sometimes.  Also certain button controls for the second controller where different. It was just a mess. We eventually figured it out but it still was a pain since we had to play around with the settings every time we would restart the game.The console was smooth. You simply turn on the second controller and BOOM, you play, No fuss. PC it is a bit more complicated with patches and settings. Single player on the other hand, for PC left4dead 2 had so many add-ons and other cool content, it was pretty impressive.


----------



## Rhamnetin

mikepio said:


> For single player support I have no doubt, but multiplayer split screen not so much. We had difficultly with the split screen and only one of the controllers would work sometimes.  Also certain button controls for the second controller where different. It was just a mess. We eventually figured it out but it still was a pain since we had to play around with the settings every time we would restart the game.The console was smooth. You simply turn on the second controller and BOOM, you play, No fuss. PC it is a bit more complicated with patches and settings. Single player on the other hand, for PC left4dead 2 had so many add-ons and other cool content, it was pretty impressive.


 
  
 PC isn't more complicated with patches, since like console it's all automatically downloaded in clients like Steam and Origin, and you can actually disable automatic updating too.  And as far as settings go, you don't _have_ to tweak them although it's of course best.  If you don't, you'd be left with the same settings as console, except for graphics settings which depends on your hardware since they auto configure.
  
 But I suppose issues with split screen aren't as surprising, since split screen is mostly a console thing.  Although bugs in Valve games are extremely rare in general.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> For single player support I have no doubt, but multiplayer split screen not so much. We had difficultly with the split screen and only one of the controllers would work sometimes.  Also certain button controls for the second controller where different. It was just a mess. We eventually figured it out but it still was a pain since we had to play around with the settings every time we would restart the game.The console was smooth. You simply turn on the second controller and BOOM, you play, No fuss. PC it is a bit more complicated with patches and settings. Single player on the other hand, for PC left4dead 2 had so many add-ons and other cool content, it was pretty impressive.


 
  
 It deeply saddens me that traditional split screen two player gameplay is all but dead now. Now online multiplayer dominates. There's no interaction with someone who's right next to you. Most of the time, there isn't even the option for that. I really wish more modern games would let us keep that feature. Nothing beats gaming with a friend by your side.


----------



## MikePio

music alchemist said:


> It deeply saddens me that traditional split screen two player gameplay is all but dead now. Now online multiplayer dominates. There's no interaction with someone who's right next to you. Most of the time, there isn't even the option for that. I really wish more modern games would let us keep that feature. Nothing beats gaming with a friend by your side.


 
 I remember one of the best gaming experiences I ever had was with my best friend playing Dark Souls for countless hours, back when we had the time. I will never forget that game and experience. All the frustrating hours of dying... Over and over again. The boss fights. The arguments... Controllers being thrown. It was intense to say the least. It got to the point where I opened the door for my friend to enter my apartment and he had this depressed look on his face, like oh we get to fight the same boss again... for the 100th time. Good times. I remember the feeling once we finally beat the game. We just sat there listening to the music in silence. And I think a big part of that was because we knew we probably wouldn't be able to do something like that again.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> I remember one of the best gaming experiences I ever had was with my best friend playing Dark Souls for countless hours, back when we had the time. I will never forget that game and experience. All the frustrating hours of dying... Over and over again. The boss fights. The arguments... Controllers being thrown. It was intense to say the least. It got to the point where I opened the door for my friend to enter my apartment and he had this depressed look on his face, like oh we get to fight the same boss again... for the 100th time. Good times. I remember the feeling once we finally beat the game. We just sat there listening to the music in silence. And I think a big part of that was because we knew we probably wouldn't be able to do something like that again.


 
  
 One of my favorite two player moments was when my brother and I would try to run each other over in Tony Hawk's Pro Skater (on PS1) to give ourselves an advantage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 PC gaming doesn't seem to have much of that. It's all about online multiplayer. But consoles are like that now too.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

music alchemist said:


> It deeply saddens me that traditional split screen two player gameplay is all but dead now. Now online multiplayer dominates. There's no interaction with someone who's right next to you. Most of the time, there isn't even the option for that. I really wish more modern games would let us keep that feature. Nothing beats gaming with a friend by your side.



Some games still have the split screen option. My favorite game to play split screen is the halo campaign. Especially when playing LASO or just on legendary in general. But someoto my favorite times playing video games was playing that campaign on Xbox live with my friends who id never met. I love the aspect that you can meet and enjoy playing with people whom you would never get to know otherwise, but there really isn't anything like playing side by side with one of your buddies, especially with a hard game. 
I'm going to get halo 5 just before I leave for home just to play it split screen with my freind when I get home.
Maybe, because I'd also have to get a controller.


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> Nothing beats gaming with a friend by your side.


 
  
 Still common in PC gaming, just not with split screen (which was never common) but LAN multiplayer instead.  There's a tradeoff of course; split screen only requires one set of hardware including display and audio devices, while LAN multiplayer requires one PC + peripherals for each person.  The upside is not having to share a screen.


----------



## Music Alchemist

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> Some games still have the split screen option.


 
  
 Of course some do, but most don't.
  


rhamnetin said:


> Still common in PC gaming, just not with split screen (which was never common) but LAN multiplayer instead.  There's a tradeoff of course; split screen only requires one set of hardware including display and audio devices, while LAN multiplayer requires one PC + peripherals for each person.  The upside is not having to share a screen.


 
  
 Yeah, that isn't really the same at all.
  
 Now I'm thinking about how I used to make my own cheat codes with GameShark Pro on PS1. Even made characters fly and other stuff that you may not have guessed was possible to do in the game; certainly not anything originally programmed into it. But I've never heard of editing code to make a game multiplayer in the way you'd like. That would be interesting.


----------



## MikePio

music alchemist said:


> One of my favorite two player moments was when my brother and I would try to run each other over in Tony Hawk's Pro Skater (on PS1) to give ourselves an advantage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Tony Hawk... I remember playing that game all night when we had sleep overs with my friends, though I don't ever recall running each other over 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
  


pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> Some games still have the split screen option. My favorite game to play split screen is the halo campaign. Especially when playing LASO or just on legendary in general. But someoto my favorite times playing video games was playing that campaign on Xbox live with my friends who id never met. I love the aspect that you can meet and enjoy playing with people whom you would never get to know otherwise, but there really isn't anything like playing side by side with one of your buddies, especially with a hard game.
> I'm going to get halo 5 just before I leave for home just to play it split screen with my freind when I get home.
> Maybe, because I'd also have to get a controller.


 
  
 Seems like really difficult games are really fun playing split screen with a friend. I think every time we tried to beat a game on split screen it was always at an insane difficulty. Halo is also a great game for that! 


rhamnetin said:


> Still common in PC gaming, just not with split screen (which was never common) but LAN multiplayer instead.  There's a tradeoff of course; split screen only requires one set of hardware including display and audio devices, while LAN multiplayer requires one PC + peripherals for each person.  The upside is not having to share a screen.


 
  
 I just think consoles are more user friendly for playing a game in co-op/split screen mode. PC gaming seems a lonely place to me...


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> Tony Hawk... I remember playing that game all night when we had sleep overs with my friends, though I don't ever recall running each other over
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
The HD remake blew my mind. Some of the milestones were so challenging I couldn't come close to reaching them either. Looks like it was also released on PC!


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> But I've never heard of editing code to make a game multiplayer in the way you'd like. That would be interesting.


 
  
 Actually, this was done even on consoles to some extent.  Hacked CoD: MW2 servers and maybe BF3 servers.  Of course much more can be done on PC, especially moddable games.  Counter Strike and Natural Selection were originally mods for Half-Life.  You may be familiar with the former; a competitive military themed shooter with common game modes like Deathmatch.  The latter is a unique aliens vs marines multiplayer shooter with a one of a kind game mode and RTS elements, and different characters on each team with totally different gameplay.  Check out videos of each just to see how far multiplayer modding has gone.  
  
 Red Orchestra (hardcore realism oriented WWII shooter series) and Killing Floor (survival co-op series) were originally mods for Unreal Tournament 2003 and 2004 (Sci-Fi competitive shooters with emphasis on deathmatch and CTF).  Then look at Mechwarrior Living Legends mod for Crysis Wars.  These games were all transformed into something totally different with mods, and these are just a few examples.
  
 Quote:


mikepio said:


> I just think consoles are more user friendly for playing a game in co-op/split screen mode. PC gaming seems a lonely place to me...


 
  
 More Steam accounts than XBOX Live accounts, and more serious communities if you want to join them.  It's only lonely if you want it to be.
  
 Tony Hawk discussion?  I was a massive fan of them.  Playing Pro Skater HD on PC is actually a surprisingly good experience save for the bugs (it's just not a polished game).  I found many advantages using keyboard.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> Actually, this was done even on consoles to some extent.  Hacked CoD: MW2 servers and maybe BF3 servers.  Of course much more can be done on PC, especially moddable games.  Counter Strike and Natural Selection were originally mods for Half-Life.  You may be familiar with the former; a competitive military themed shooter with common game modes like Deathmatch.  The latter is a unique aliens vs marines multiplayer shooter with a one of a kind game mode and RTS elements, and different characters on each team with totally different gameplay.  Check out videos of each just to see how far multiplayer modding has gone.
> 
> Red Orchestra (hardcore realism oriented WWII shooter series) and Killing Floor (survival co-op series) were originally mods for Unreal Tournament 2003 and 2004 (Sci-Fi competitive shooters with emphasis on deathmatch and CTF).  Then look at Mechwarrior Living Legends mod for Crysis Wars.  These games were all transformed into something totally different with mods, and these are just a few examples.


 
  
 I assumed they existed; just didn't know of any specifically. What I would give for multiplayer versions of Final Fantasy VII & XIII-2!


----------



## MikePio

music alchemist said:


> The HD remake blew my mind. Some of the milestones were so challenging I couldn't come close to reaching them either. Looks like it was also released on PC!


 
  
 I have to replay it again some day. I wonder if I would enjoy it as much as when I was a child?
   
 Quote:


rhamnetin said:


> More Steam accounts than XBOX Live accounts, and more serious communities if you want to join them.  It's only lonely if you want it to be.
> 
> Tony Hawk discussion?  I was a massive fan of them.  Playing Pro Skater HD on PC is actually a surprisingly good experience save for the bugs (it's just not a polished game).  I found many advantages using keyboard.


 
  
 I should lighten up towards PC gaming right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One day... One day...


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> I assumed they existed; just didn't know of any specifically. What I would give for multiplayer versions of Final Fantasy VII & XIII-2!


 
  
 While those probably haven't been made, maybe there is a somewhat similar alternative out there you'd like.  
  
 Another thing I love about PC gaming is that not only are the vast majority of classics easily obtainable legally (e.g. don't have to worry about a 1990s console dying on you), quite a few have been remade on newer engines while remaining 100% faithful.  Although we could still use more of this.


----------



## MikePio

Can you guys believe I have never played Final Fantasy before! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A little trivia game! who can guess this pc game? What a little gem of a game this was!


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> Can you guys believe I have never played Final Fantasy before!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Final Fantasy is a large franchise, and by far my favorite. Many of the games are now available on PC in addition to consoles.
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Final_Fantasy_video_games
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesia:_The_Dark_Descent


----------



## MikePio

music alchemist said:


> Final Fantasy is a large franchise, and by far my favorite. Many of the games are now available on PC in addition to consoles.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Final_Fantasy_video_games
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy
> ...


 
  
 Will have to give the series a try, I always wanted to play it but never really had the chance. Currently I am playing (on the 2DS) Fire Emblem: Awakening, is it similar to that? I really like the characters in that game though I play the no man left behind rules which make is slightly more difficult and time consuming. I made the guessing trivia thing to easy I see!


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> Will have to give the series a try, I always wanted to play it but never really had the chance. Currently I am playing (on the 2DS) Fire Emblem: Awakening, is it similar to that? I really like the characters in that game though I play the no man left behind rules which make is slightly more difficult and time consuming. I made the guessing trivia thing to easy I see!


 
  
 Never played that one, but looking at screenshots, it would appear not.
  
 Like I said, FF is a large franchise, so some of the games have different styles...but most of them share a similar style. I would recommend starting with VII, which to this day is regarded by many as the greatest video game of all time. I also really enjoy IX, XIII-2, VIII, IV, and Tactics Advance.


----------



## Rhamnetin

mikepio said:


> Can you guys believe I have never played Final Fantasy before!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Amnesia: The Dark Descent is great, but you should see their other works (Penumbra and SOMA) which do a better job of bringing incredible storytelling to the forefront.  They all use the same gameplay formula, Penumbra was their first although Amnesia was their first real success.  Their games revolutionized the horror genre since so many are trying to copy them now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fire Emblem has more in common with Final Fantasy tactics, than any standard Final Fantasy. That said, I loved the GBA Fire Emblem games, and Radiant Dawn for the Wii. The latter ones, not as much. It became anime weeaboo nonsense with waifu marriages, and whatnot.

I'm from a time when anime wasn't so copypasta, which now has spilled over into anime-esque games like FE: A and the newest ones.

I didn't hate FE: A, but the anime stuff was irritating. This is coming from an avid anime watcher.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mad lust envy said:


> Fire Emblem has more in common with Final Fantasy tactics, than any standard Final Fantasy. That said, I loved the GBA Fire Emblem games, and Radiant Dawn for the Wii. The latter ones, not as much. It became anime weeaboo nonsense with waifu marriages, and whatnot.
> 
> I'm from a time when anime wasn't so copypasta, which now has spilled over into anime-esque games like FE: A and the newest ones.
> 
> I didn't hate FE: A, but the anime stuff was irritating. This is coming from an avid anime watcher.


 
  
 I've seen many thousands of episodes of anime...and this made me giggle. Makes me want to look at the stuff you mentioned just to see how cheesy it is.


----------



## MikePio

rhamnetin said:


> Amnesia: The Dark Descent is great, but you should see their other works (Penumbra and SOMA) which do a better job of bringing incredible storytelling to the forefront.  They all use the same gameplay formula, Penumbra was their first although Amnesia was their first real success.  Their games revolutionized the horror genre since so many are trying to copy them now.


 
  
 I played Penumbra before and I very much enjoyed that game as well, though I loved how complete Amnesia felt. The atmosphere, the music and the story line were amazing in my opinion and the multiple endings were really cool as well. Are there any modern adventure/horror games that have similar atmosphere out in 2016? 
  


mad lust envy said:


> Fire Emblem has more in common with Final Fantasy tactics, than any standard Final Fantasy. That said, I loved the GBA Fire Emblem games, and Radiant Dawn for the Wii. The latter ones, not as much. It became anime weeaboo nonsense with waifu marriages, and whatnot.
> 
> I'm from a time when anime wasn't so copypasta, which now has spilled over into anime-esque games like FE: A and the newest ones.
> 
> I didn't hate FE: A, but the anime stuff was irritating. This is coming from an avid anime watcher.


 
  
 I like the marriages part 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I also like the humor and strategic depth involved, though this is my first Fire Emblem game so I don't have much knowledge of the series. I was thinking about getting into anime, but tried in the past and could never really get into it. I am a huge fan of graphic novels such as Sandman by Mr. Gaiman but never really knew where to start with anime, perhaps I would really like it.


music alchemist said:


> I've seen many thousands of episodes of anime...and this made me giggle. Makes me want to look at the stuff you mentioned just to see how cheesy it is.


 
  
 Perhaps you can recommend something for a novice then?


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> Perhaps you can recommend something for a novice then?


 
  
 ahaha. My favorite anime are Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni (When They Cry), Mirai Nikki (The Future Diary), Puella Magi Madoka Magica, Steins;Gate, Death Note, and Soul Eater.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

mikepio said:


> I played Penumbra before and I very much enjoyed that game as well, though I loved how complete Amnesia felt. The atmosphere, the music and the story line were amazing in my opinion and the multiple endings were really cool as well. Are there any modern adventure/horror games that have similar atmosphere out in 2016?
> 
> 
> I like the marriages part  . I also like the humor and strategic depth involved, though this is my first Fire Emblem game so I don't have much knowledge of the series. I was thinking about getting into anime, but tried in the past and could never really get into it. I am a huge fan of graphic novels such as Sandman by Mr. Gaiman but never really knew where to start with anime, perhaps I would really like it.
> ...



For a horror game the new resident evil 7 demo and the outlast 2 demo both looked amazing! Wow they looked good, although the outlast 2 demo was a bit much for me. XD 

As for manga reccomendations I reccomend reading the Tokyo Ghoul manga as it is still to this day the most amazing thing I've ever read. 
As for actual anime reccomendations I reccomend DBZ (a good starter anime) Tokyo ghoul (one of the best animes I've seen, but completely outclassed in every way by the manga. If you will, the English subbed version is much better than the English dubbed version) naruto (lots of filler but if you can get past that it's really good) bleach (there are literal filler arks that don't effect the story whatsoever and can be completely skipped) and maybe seven deadly sins (read the manga and it's great, I've heard the anime isn't much different, but that may change.)
If you want manga recommendations just pm me, cause I've read tons.


----------



## MikePio

music alchemist said:


> ahaha. My favorite anime are Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni (When They Cry), Mirai Nikki (The Future Diary), Puella Magi Madoka Magica, Steins;Gate, Death Note, and Soul Eater.


 
  
 Thanks for the recommendations. I will pick one that I like best from the descriptions and post back my impressions. Looking forward to it! 
   
 Quote:


pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> For a horror game the new resident evil 7 demo and the outlast 2 demo both looked amazing! Wow they looked good, although the outlast 2 demo was a bit much for me. XD
> 
> As for manga reccomendations I reccomend reading the Tokyo Ghoul manga as it is still to this day the most amazing thing I've ever read.
> As for actual anime reccomendations I reccomend DBZ (a good starter anime) Tokyo ghoul (one of the best animes I've seen, but completely outclassed in every way by the manga. If you will, the English subbed version is much better than the English dubbed version) naruto (lots of filler but if you can get past that it's really good) bleach (there are literal filler arks that don't effect the story whatsoever and can be completely skipped) and maybe seven deadly sins (read the manga and it's great, I've heard the anime isn't much different, but that may change.)
> If you want manga recommendations just pm me, cause I've read tons.


 
  
 Ahhh yes, Resident Evil another classic. Will have to check the demo out though, since I have not seen it yet. I will look for the Tokyo Ghoul manga next and make it my introduction, seems really interesting. Perhaps I will turn this weekend into a long manga and anime session!


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> Thanks for the recommendations. I will pick one that I like best from the descriptions and post back my impressions. Looking forward to it!
> 
> Ahhh yes, Resident Evil another classic. Will have to check the demo out though, since I have not seen it yet. I will look for the Tokyo Ghoul manga next and make it my introduction, seems really interesting. Perhaps I will turn this weekend into a long manga and anime session!


 
  
 Since this thread is about video games, you'd be better off posting about anime and manga in the main thread for that:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/586040/official-asian-anime-manga-and-music-lounge
  
 Back in 2014 I was one of the main posters there, but I haven't posted there since, mostly because it's a lot of work to keep up with, being the most active thread on the site. Feel free to PM me about anime and manga, anyway. My favorite manga is Rosario + Vampire.
  
 Also, some of these series would take a long time to watch. My favorite anime has 64 episodes, for example.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

music alchemist said:


> Since this thread is about video games, you'd be better off posting about anime and manga in the main thread for that:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/586040/official-asian-anime-manga-and-music-lounge
> 
> ...



For something a little smaller where you can just talk to me and Music Alchemist and such I have a thread reserved for off topic situations like this. It's called off topic (see where the name came from). If you think it would be better to go there first instead of jumping into the anime thread.
Link:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/817000/off-topic


----------



## Music Alchemist

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> For something a little smaller where you can just talk to me and @Music Alchemist and such I have a thread reserved for off topic situations like this. It's called off topic (see where the name came from). If you think it would be better to go there first instead of jumping into the anime thread.
> Link:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/817000/off-topic


 
  
 I think every thread needs a topic. Notice how all the off-topic conversations in threads remain in those threads instead of going to that one.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

music alchemist said:


> I think every thread needs a topic. Notice how all the off-topic conversations in threads remain in those threads instead of going to that one.



Yes, but I find the thread convinient. It's either that or pm each other. Can you even have a group pm?


----------



## Music Alchemist

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> Yes, but I find the thread convinient. It's either that or pm each other. Can you even have a group pm?


 
  
 Practically every active thread goes off-topic from time to time, but you do have a point as far as continued conversation goes. Still, there are threads for every topic (and you can always make more), so I feel that if you're going to post a lot about a certain topic, it's best to do so in a thread dedicated to that topic.
  
 You can PM multiple recipients, but some people (including myself) don't like that.


----------



## Rhamnetin

mikepio said:


> I played Penumbra before and I very much enjoyed that game as well, though I loved how complete Amnesia felt. The atmosphere, the music and the story line were amazing in my opinion and the multiple endings were really cool as well. Are there any modern adventure/horror games that have similar atmosphere out in 2016?


 
  
 SOMA, their latest game, is the only game to deliver in similar fashion.  Others have tried, but are typically left with B movie horror plots and generic atmosphere.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

rhamnetin said:


> SOMA, their latest game, is the only game to deliver in similar fashion.  Others have tried, but are typically left with B movie horror plots and generic atmosphere.



I believe the game Lethe was inspired by amnesia. I watched a let's play of it and it looked good. Definitely not the scariest game I've seen.
Alien isolation can get really tense, but it doesn't strike me as horror as much as it strikes me as an action game.
Most of the games I see that are really good horror games are not triple-a releases and instead small indie games. Most triple-a horror games are also action games where you can fight back against your attackers. I'm watching a let's play of the evil within and it falls into this category. If you really want a good horror experience look for games where you cannot fight back as they tend to have the most tense and frightening gameplay.


----------



## Music Alchemist

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> I believe the game Lethe was inspired by amnesia. I watched a let's play of it and it looked good. Definitely not the scariest game I've seen.
> Alien isolation can get really tense, but it doesn't strike me as horror as much as it strikes me as an action game.
> Most of the games I see that are really good horror games are not triple-a releases and instead small indie games. Most triple-a horror games are also action games where you can fight back against your attackers. I'm watching a let's play of the evil within and it falls into this category. If you really want a good horror experience look for games where you cannot fight back as they tend to have the most tense and frightening gameplay.


 
  
 Playthrough videos are great, but I hate the ones with commentary. Absolutely cannot stand them.
  
 I gave up trying to find movies, shows, and games that actually scare me.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

music alchemist said:


> Playthrough videos are great, but I hate the ones with commentary. Absolutely cannot stand them.
> 
> I gave up trying to find movies, shows, and games that actually scare me.



Most of the time I watch playthroughs and let's plays is for the commentary and not the game. If there is a game I really want to play I'll just play it, but I love let's players like rooster teeth and markiplier. Rooster teeth is just hilarious. They play games and talk and the conversation is just like my friends and I have. They are kinda gross sometimes, and definitely not for everyone, but man are they funny. If you want to check them out this would be the best video to start with.
Rage Quit Surgeon Simulator:
https://youtu.be/Y2F3ZWEEbF4


----------



## pureangus62

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> Most of the time I watch playthroughs and let's plays is for the commentary and not the game. If there is a game I really want to play I'll just play it, but I love let's players like rooster teeth and markiplier. Rooster teeth is just hilarious. They play games and talk and the conversation is just like my friends and I have. They are kinda gross sometimes, and definitely not for everyone, but man are they funny. If you want to check them out this would be the best video to start with.
> Rage Quit Surgeon Simulator:
> https://youtu.be/Y2F3ZWEEbF4


 
 I used to love watching Lets Play videos. Me and a group of buddies used to watch them and sometimes snag the ones that looked most fun. I think we spent a couple nights playing the last olympics game over and over haha


----------



## Rhamnetin

I never understood the fascination with Let's Play videos.  Why not just play the game yourself and experience what was intended?


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

rhamnetin said:


> I never understood the fascination with Let's Play videos.  Why not just play the game yourself and experience what was intended?



I watch let's play videos for the comedy. If you watch the video I posted, you'd see that the people are what make them popular, not the game. Watching those two idiots (I say that with the utmost affection and love) rip that dude apart time after time is genuinely hilarious. There is a reason the video has 11 million views.


----------



## Music Alchemist

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> Most of the time I watch playthroughs and let's plays is for the commentary and not the game. If there is a game I really want to play I'll just play it, but I love let's players like rooster teeth and markiplier. Rooster teeth is just hilarious. They play games and talk and the conversation is just like my friends and I have. They are kinda gross sometimes, and definitely not for everyone, but man are they funny. If you want to check them out this would be the best video to start with.
> Rage Quit Surgeon Simulator:
> https://youtu.be/Y2F3ZWEEbF4


 
  
 I said I cannot stand the commentary (completely ruins the experience for me), so there's no way I'd watch that. Most of the people commenting sound extremely annoying too.
  


rhamnetin said:


> I never understood the fascination with Let's Play videos.  Why not just play the game yourself and experience what was intended?


 
  
 It's useful for games I don't yet have or am not sure whether I would want to play, and also for the sheer entertainment. Also good for finding out little secrets you didn't figure out on your own without reading through game guides. If it's a game I know I want to play, I play through it myself with no help, at least the first time.


----------



## MikePio

rhamnetin said:


> I never understood the fascination with Let's Play videos.  Why not just play the game yourself and experience what was intended?


 
  
 Never understood the appeal as well... But then again, I am not exactly the most comedy loving person either. 
   
 Quote:


music alchemist said:


> I said I cannot stand the commentary (completely ruins the experience for me), so there's no way I'd watch that. Most of the people commenting sound extremely annoying too.
> 
> 
> It's useful for games I don't yet have or am not sure whether I would want to play, and also for the sheer entertainment. Also good for finding out little secrets you didn't figure out on your own without reading through game guides. If it's a game I know I want to play, I play through it myself with no help, at least the first time.


 
  
 I usually just play through the game with no help. My mentality while playing is (this relates to the Myst series) if I am too stupid to solve the puzzles without a guide I don't deserve to move on... perhaps you can call me a purist or masochist... the choice is yours.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> I usually just play through the game with no help. My mentality while playing is (this relates to the Myst series) if I am too stupid to solve the puzzles without a guide I don't deserve to move on... perhaps you can call me a purist or masochist... the choice is yours.


 
  
 That reminds me of how I solved a puzzle in a game within minutes that the designer (or director? I dunno) himself couldn't solve!


----------



## MikePio

music alchemist said:


> That reminds me of how I solved a puzzle in a game within minutes that the designer (or director? I dunno) himself couldn't solve!


 
 That is pretty impressive! Have you played the Myst Series?


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> That is pretty impressive! Have you played the Myst Series?


 
  
 I think I actually have it in a box in the next room, but never played it. I have a number of PC games, and never got around to playing them. Don't even remember how I got some of them. Probably as gifts or something. I bought Silent Hill 3 for a really low price in a random store that mostly sold clothes (go figure), and although I haven't played it, I love the trip hop soundtrack CD that came with it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love video games. I love anime. However, I don't tend to like when they bleed into one another. Anime tropes and sensibilities tend to just irritate the hell out of me in video games. I don't know, it cheapens games to me.

Anime for the past few years has been a race to release the best Moe waifus. This was basically a niche genre back in the 90s. Now, it's 90% of what's being released. So when I see it occuring in video games, it is an instant turn off.

Now, you can't have a good anime, without some cheap ploy to peddle some doe-eyed Waifu who the hero happens to trip and latch on to her breast accidentally. This sort of nonsense has always been around, but now it's ALWAYS around.

Sorry for the semi rant. I don't even know how it got started. I guess with Fire Emblem. That new one which basically became Anime Pop Idol meets Fire Emblem triggers me so damn hard.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

mad lust envy said:


> I love video games. I love anime. However, I don't tend to like when they bleed into one another. Anime tropes and sensibilities tend to just irritate the hell out of me in video games. I don't know, it cheapens games to me.
> 
> Anime for the past few years has been a race to release the best Moe waifus. This was basically a niche genre back in the 90s. Now, it's 90% of what's being released. So when I see it occuring in video games, it is an instant turn off.
> 
> ...



You should watch or read Tokyo ghoul. I haven't seen anything like that once. Sui Ishida took the manga very seriously and it shows in the writing.
Now on the topic of anime related games, has anyone seen yandere simulator? It has to be one of the funniest games I've ever seen. Someone animated markiplier playing it and it is one of the funniest things I've seen. 
Links:
https://youtu.be/JlwCE7UHi88 (episode 1)
https://youtu.be/iKqX-P2gX7U (episode 2)


----------



## MikePio

music alchemist said:


> I think I actually have it in a box in the next room, but never played it. I have a number of PC games, and never got around to playing them. Don't even remember how I got some of them. Probably as gifts or something. I bought Silent Hill 3 for a really low price in a random store that mostly sold clothes (go figure), and although I haven't played it, I love the trip hop soundtrack CD that came with it!


 
  
 If you get a chance to play the Myst series it is really worth it in my opinion, just the puzzles especially later on are brutally hard. I can't remember how many times I stopped playing because I couldn't move on and would refuse to check the solutions for even hints. Hahaha, I guess you never know where you will find a Silent Hill game 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I am not surprised about the Soundtrack though, since the Silent Hill series has some incredible soundtracks, one of the best in the gaming genre to be honest. This one in particular. 
  
http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/%E5%B1%B1%E5%B2%A1%E6%99%83/silent_hill_2__original_soundtrack/
  
   
 Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> I love video games. I love anime. However, I don't tend to like when they bleed into one another. Anime tropes and sensibilities tend to just irritate the hell out of me in video games. I don't know, it cheapens games to me.
> 
> Anime for the past few years has been a race to release the best Moe waifus. This was basically a niche genre back in the 90s. Now, it's 90% of what's being released. So when I see it occuring in video games, it is an instant turn off.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Which video game would you recommend that is more in line with a more traditional anime approach besides the Fire Emblem series and Final Fantasy?


----------



## Music Alchemist

mad lust envy said:


> I love video games. I love anime. However, I don't tend to like when they bleed into one another. Anime tropes and sensibilities tend to just irritate the hell out of me in video games. I don't know, it cheapens games to me.
> 
> Anime for the past few years has been a race to release the best Moe waifus. This was basically a niche genre back in the 90s. Now, it's 90% of what's being released. So when I see it occuring in video games, it is an instant turn off.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I wouldn't go so far as 90%. I mean, there are plenty of genres that don't have anything like that. (Says the alchemist with anime waifu avatar. lol)
  


mikepio said:


> Which video game would you recommend that is more in line with a more traditional anime approach besides the Fire Emblem series and Final Fantasy?


 
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_based_on_anime_or_manga
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anime_based_on_video_games
  
 Also...the Final Fantasy video games have next to nothing to do with anime, despite the fact that later, Final Fantasy anime was made.
  
 https://myanimelist.net/anime.php?q=Final+Fantasy


----------



## listen4joy

PC forever, too bad some console games wont work on pc.


----------



## Rhamnetin

listen4joy said:


> PC forever, too bad some console games wont work on pc.


 
  
 I'm quite lucky that every game I care about is on PC.  No need to spend more on something else and add more clutter to this room.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Now that I'm using RAM drives, I wonder how far I'd be able to push my laptop with more advanced games without it overheating. It has pretty good specs. Alienware M11x R2, Windows 10 Home 64-bit, Intel Core i7-640UM 1.2 GHz quad-core processor, 8 GB RAM. I did a bit of optimization, defragmenting, etc. this year too. I can play 1080p videos on it with few problems now, whereas before they'd glitch up pretty badly. (Though it was fine when I first got it.) I doubt it'd be able to handle Final Fantasy XIII-2 (which I played for hundreds of hours on PS3), so I'm not sure if I'll buy the Steam version anytime soon. I'd want to hook up a controller for that as well.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

music alchemist said:


> Now that I'm using RAM drives, I wonder how far I'd be able to push my laptop with more advanced games without it overheating. It has pretty good specs. Alienware M11x R2, Windows 10 Home 64-bit, Intel Core i7-640UM 1.2 GHz quad-core processor, 8 GB RAM. I did a bit of optimization, defragmenting, etc. this year too. I can play 1080p videos on it with few problems now, whereas before they'd glitch up pretty badly. (Though it was fine when I first got it.) I doubt it'd be able to handle Final Fantasy XIII-2 (which I played for hundreds of hours on PS3), so I'm not sure if I'll buy the Steam version anytime soon. I'd want to hook up a controller for that as well.



There are only a few bottlenecks on gaming computers. Processor power and speed, GPU power, speed, and graphic memory, memory speed, ram amount and speed. That comes down to the four main components of a gaming computer: CPU, GPU, RAM, and hard drive. On a laptop you can only increase the ram and switch to a solid state drive. If you are having problems playing video that sounds like a problem with your hard drive. Are you using a solid state drive? Upgrading to solid state is pretty much the best upgrade you could make to any computer system.


----------



## Music Alchemist

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> There are only a few bottlenecks on gaming computers. Processor power and speed, GPU power, speed, and graphic memory, memory speed, ram amount and speed. That comes down to the four main components of a gaming computer: CPU, GPU, RAM, and hard drive. On a laptop you can only increase the ram and switch to a solid state drive. If you are having problems playing video that sounds like a problem with your hard drive. Are you using a solid state drive? Upgrading to solid state is pretty much the best upgrade you could make to any computer system.


 
  
 I think the main problem with my laptop is the cooling system. When I push it too hard it overheats and instantly shuts off.
  
 The RAM drives make things function more smoothly, but they can only help so much. (In case you didn't know, RAM drives are many, many times faster than anything else.)
  
 I'm not going to bother upgrading anything until I simply upgrade to a custom desktop.


----------



## MikePio

music alchemist said:


> I think the main problem with my laptop is the cooling system. When I push it too hard it overheats and instantly shuts off.
> 
> The RAM drives make things function more smoothly, but they can only help so much. (In case you didn't know, RAM drives are many, many times faster than anything else.)
> 
> I'm not going to bother upgrading anything until I simply upgrade to a custom desktop.


 
  
 The shutting off part doesn't sound good. Do you have programs installed like GPU-Z and CPU-Z to monitor temperature and performance levels? I have an MSI gaming laptop and I don't remember it shutting down when playing even the highest setting, the only time that has happened to me is when I pasted and fitted the heat sink bracket incorrectly. Here is what I have done to cool things off (these things are not too pricey). Re-paste your GPU and CPU with a quality thermal paste. If you have a back cover, take it off and leave it off. You can dust it once a week with a pressurized can and be fine. These two things have lowered my temps by more than 20 degrees Celsius under full load.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> The shutting off part doesn't sound good. Do you have programs installed like GPU-Z and CPU-Z to monitor temperature and performance levels? I have an MSI gaming laptop and I don't remember it shutting down when playing even the highest setting, the only time that has happened to me is when I pasted and fitted the heat sink bracket incorrectly. Here is what I have done to cool things off (these things are not too pricey). Re-paste your GPU and CPU with a quality thermal paste. If you have a back cover, take it off and leave it off. You can dust it once a week with a pressurized can and be fine. These two things have lowered my temps by more than 20 degrees Celsius under full load.


 
  
 I'm too lazy to bother with all that stuff. Like I said, I'll just get a custom desktop later. It's a small laptop, so naturally it overheats more easily than a larger one. It only shuts off to prevent permanent damage, and it only happens when it's pushed very hard, such as playing 1080p videos too long without the RAM drives. If the files (and software) are in the RAM drives, it can go for hours with no issues.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

music alchemist said:


> I'm too lazy to bother with all that stuff. Like I said, I'll just get a custom desktop later. It's a small laptop, so naturally it overheats more easily than a larger one. It only shuts off to prevent permanent damage, and it only happens when it's pushed very hard, such as playing 1080p videos too long without the RAM drives. If the files (and software) are in the RAM drives, it can go for hours with no issues.



When did you get your Alienware? I've heard bad things about the older ones but the newer ones seem to be great.


----------



## Music Alchemist

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> When did you get your Alienware? I've heard bad things about the older ones but the newer ones seem to be great.


 
  
 I believe I told ya before: 2011.


----------



## MikePio

music alchemist said:


> I'm too lazy to bother with all that stuff. Like I said, I'll just get a custom desktop later. It's a small laptop, so naturally it overheats more easily than a larger one. It only shuts off to prevent permanent damage, and it only happens when it's pushed very hard, such as playing 1080p videos too long without the RAM drives. If the files (and software) are in the RAM drives, it can go for hours with no issues.


 
  
 Sorry but a modern laptop shouldn't shut off playing 1080p videos 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Sounds like the issue was the HD, good thing everything works now. By RAM drives are you referring to SSD? Either way I made a similar upgrade and it worked wonders for my laptop as well.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> Sorry but a modern laptop shouldn't shut off playing 1080p videos
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 No, virtual RAM drives that don't cost a penny and are far faster than SSD. And it can still eventually overheat regardless; just not as soon.
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_drive


----------



## NamelessPFG

Now that I have my desktop all maxed out with 32 GB of DDR3-2400 just because I could (and because I wanted to do so before DDR3 inevitably goes up in price and the supply of the really good stuff dwindles as DDR4 takes over), I have some breathing room to play with RAM disks.

 I'm just not sure what I'd use one for at the moment, considering that a lot of applications already cache their stuff into RAM properly without needing to shove a swap file into a RAM disk. It's certainly overkill for current games.

 But, hey, at least I can multitask like crazy now and not have to worry about a RAM upgrade again while the 4770K's still a viable CPU, right?
  
 Oh, and about the whole overheating laptop thing, I've already had to repaste a few of mine where the stock stuff dried out and they'd always throttle under a sustained stress test, which required some pretty extensive teardowns, but at least I got some massive load temp drops for my trouble, like 10-20c.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

namelesspfg said:


> Now that I have my desktop all maxed out with 32 GB of DDR3-2400 just because I could (and because I wanted to do so before DDR3 inevitably goes up in price and the supply of the really good stuff dwindles as DDR4 takes over), I have some breathing room to play with RAM disks.
> 
> 
> I'm just not sure what I'd use one for at the moment, considering that a lot of applications already cache their stuff into RAM properly without needing to shove a swap file into a RAM disk. It's certainly overkill for current games.
> ...



Sounds like a pretty solid setup. What GPU are you using?
When I was looking into building a PC long ago (before I got my Alienware) I considered the 4790k. Despite being a few generations old they are still more than capable as processors. Most games aren't really all that processor heavy, which is why ram, GPU, and storage are always more important. But I like to make all things overkill.


----------



## Music Alchemist

namelesspfg said:


> Now that I have my desktop all maxed out with 32 GB of DDR3-2400 just because I could (and because I wanted to do so before DDR3 inevitably goes up in price and the supply of the really good stuff dwindles as DDR4 takes over), I have some breathing room to play with RAM disks.
> 
> I'm just not sure what I'd use one for at the moment, considering that a lot of applications already cache their stuff into RAM properly without needing to shove a swap file into a RAM disk. It's certainly overkill for current games.
> 
> ...


 
  
 hehe. I'd imagine a computer that advanced wouldn't benefit from RAM drives nearly as much as mine.
  
 The thing with my laptop's cooling system is that the fan eventually started going crazy at the slightest provocation and would make scary noises. This went on, on and off, for a few years. This year it finally stopped making noise altogether. Usually, when it's pushed too hard, it will overheat and shut off before the fan even makes any noise. On rare occasions, the fan will go crazy, trying to cool everything down. Most of the time, thankfully, it stays silent without going haywire in the first place.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

music alchemist said:


> hehe. I'd imagine a computer that advanced wouldn't benefit from RAM drives nearly as much as mine.
> 
> The thing with my laptop's cooling system is that the fan eventually started going crazy at the slightest provocation and would make scary noises. This went on, on and off, for a few years. This year it finally stopped making noise altogether. Usually, when it's pushed too hard, it will overheat and shut off before the fan even makes any noise. On rare occasions, the fan will go crazy, trying to cool everything down. Most of the time, thankfully, it stays silent without going haywire in the first place.



Your fan sounds pretty jacked up. You should have contacted Alienware, but the warranty is long gone by now. Hopefully that doesn't happen to me, but if so I will disavow Alienware on the spot (unless I still have warranty). XD
My dads gaming computer must be coming up on 6-7 years old. It actually still runs on ddr2 ram (something that wasn't that old at the time. May have even been kind of new.) I don't really know all of the tech specs, but it still runs great. It gets 130fps on battlefield 2 at all settings maxed and with a resolution just slightly lower than 1080p. It also still runs perfectly after all these years, despite not being connected to Internet in some 3 or 4 odd years.


----------



## Music Alchemist

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> Your fan sounds pretty jacked up. You should have contacted Alienware, but the warranty is long gone by now. Hopefully that doesn't happen to me, but if so I will disavow Alienware on the spot (unless I still have warranty). XD
> My dads gaming computer must be coming up on 6-7 years old. It actually still runs on ddr2 ram (something that wasn't that old at the time. May have even been kind of new.) I don't really know all of the tech specs, but it still runs great. It gets 130fps on battlefield 2 at all settings maxed and with a resolution just slightly lower than 1080p. It also still runs perfectly after all these years, despite not being connected to Internet in some 3 or 4 odd years.


 
  
 I never did any physical maintenance, so it's only natural for that to happen.


----------



## Rhamnetin

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> Sounds like a pretty solid setup. What GPU are you using?
> When I was looking into building a PC long ago (before I got my Alienware) I considered the 4790k. Despite being a few generations old they are still more than capable as processors. Most games aren't really all that processor heavy, which is why ram, GPU, and storage are always more important. But I like to make all things overkill.


 
  
 i7's are becoming more important as time goes on.  More games are benefiting from them.  Of course the 4790k is outdated now, replaced by the i7 6700k which will soon be replaced by the i7 7700k.  Until Vulkan and/or DX12 fully take over, CPU bottlenecks will remain a real problem (IPC performance is what's really needed, not more cores and threads).


----------



## NamelessPFG

pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> Sounds like a pretty solid setup. What GPU are you using?
> When I was looking into building a PC long ago (before I got my Alienware) I considered the 4790k. Despite being a few generations old they are still more than capable as processors. Most games aren't really all that processor heavy, which is why ram, GPU, and storage are always more important. But I like to make all things overkill.


 
  
 GTX 980, reference model. Got it for $315 shipped late last year and wanted to be prepared for my Rift CV1 the moment it arrived on my doorstep, which it did back in mid-May. The GTX 1070/1080 weren't out yet and were out of my budget anyway.
  
 It's proving to be adequate enough at 1600x1200@95Hz (still missing my FW900 that could do 1920x1200@95Hz just as easily) that it should tide me over until Volta. Hopefully, by then, we'll either have DisplayPort-to-VGA adapters that don't suck compared to the built-in 400 MHz RAMDACs that were standard up through Maxwell, or I might end up with a G-SYNC display whose image quality I can live with.
  
 But as far as games not being CPU-heavy go, DCS World and PlanetSide 2 are just two examples of games that are more than happy to turn your gaming experience into a slideshow even on a 4.6 GHz i7-4770K, and the former's already confirmed _not_ to benefit much from NVIDIA's new Pascal cards framerate-wise because it's just that CPU-limited. It'd be a vomit fest if not for the wonders of Oculus asynchronous timewarp, that's for sure.
  
 There's also other games like BeamNG.drive and Warframe that also quite visibly struggled on my old Q6600 box, even pushed to 3.6 GHz, but which hum along smoothly on the 4770K setup even before I factor in overclocking. CPU advancements had come farther along in six years (2007-2013) than I'd thought, that's for sure, but they've really slowed down after Sandy Bridge.
  
 I've gone almost three years on the 4770K now; let's see if I can get at least six out of it like I did with the Q6600 setup before I finally decided I needed an upgrade. I'm thinking it'll still be good when Volta rolls out in about two years.
  


music alchemist said:


> hehe. I'd imagine a computer that advanced wouldn't benefit from RAM drives nearly as much as mine.
> 
> The thing with my laptop's cooling system is that the fan eventually started going crazy at the slightest provocation and would make scary noises. This went on, on and off, for a few years. This year it finally stopped making noise altogether. Usually, when it's pushed too hard, it will overheat and shut off before the fan even makes any noise. On rare occasions, the fan will go crazy, trying to cool everything down. Most of the time, thankfully, it stays silent without going haywire in the first place.


 
  
 Sounds like the fan itself is starting to crap out, except you've stated that it's clearly still running. Could be overheating, could be a sensor issue, could be something else entirely.
  
 All I know is that laptops have a bad habit of having baffling, hard-to-diagnose issues that don't happen on any other system, especially not my custom desktops.
  
 For instance, one of my laptops _would not work with Windows 10 version 1511._ Updates from RTM build 10240 would break the OS, clean installs would fail, and only when they finally brought out Anniversary Update version 1607 earlier this month did it actually work again! Every other system I had just worked in the meantime.
  


rhamnetin said:


> i7's are becoming more important as time goes on.  More games are benefiting from them.  Of course the 4790k is outdated now, replaced by the i7 6700k which will soon be replaced by the i7 7700k.  Until Vulkan and/or DX12 fully take over, CPU bottlenecks will remain a real problem (IPC performance is what's really needed, not more cores and threads).


 
  
 Sadly, Skylake isn't that huge leap from Haswell that I'm looking for, and it doesn't look like it'll be easy to increase IPC from here on out.
  
 Then again, I don't think we're going to get the kind of hardware needed to brute-force its way through DCS at a constant 90 FPS any time soon, and that's factoring in that DCS had its EDGE update finally brought out so it's running on DX11 instead of DX9. Even so, framerates plummet once you start doing gun runs on ground targets with all the dust plumes being kicked up or start flying toward an area with a lot of AI units shooting it out. There's only so much you can do about inefficient code when the days of doubled CPU performance year after year are long gone.

 It's crying out for DX12 or Vulkan when the action really gets going, but that's only going to benefit particularly skilled graphics programmers who know what they're doing. Most of those sorts are going to be working on mainstream, general-purpose engines like Unity or Unreal that will benefit a wider array of game developers just from their being licensed out to people who can't be arsed to reinvent the wheel for basic game functionality, not some in-house flight sim engine.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Just saw the new Final Fantasy movie based on the upcoming game Final Fantasy XV, which will be released on PS4 and Xbox One on November 29th. It may or may not be released on PC in the future as well. Anyway, the movie has ridiculously good graphics. Makes it seem like they spent a gajillion dollars making it.
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XV
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsglaive:_Final_Fantasy_XV


----------



## Music Alchemist

Steam's remastered version of the PS1 game Final Fantasy IX (released this year) is at the top of my PC game wish list.
  
 As mentioned before, I already have the remastered PC version of Final Fantasy VII. But it feels way too weird playing it with just a keyboard. I mean, the original game designer, for whatever unimaginable reason, made it so that extremely slow walking (which you never want to do in the first place) is default. You have to hold an extra button down whenever you want to run, _which is always_. It's annoying enough with a controller. I read on a forum that "if you assign the Caps Lock key to the [CANCEL] command then it acts as a walk/run toggle when pressed." Guess I could try that and see if it works. But I'd still rather have a controller.


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> Steam's remastered version of the PS1 game Final Fantasy IX (released this year) is at the top of my PC game wish list.
> 
> As mentioned before, I already have the remastered PC version of Final Fantasy VII. But it feels way too weird playing it with just a keyboard. I mean, the original game designer, for whatever unimaginable reason, made it so that extremely slow walking (which you never want to do in the first place) is default. You have to hold an extra button down whenever you want to run, _which is always_. It's annoying enough with a controller. I read on a forum that "if you assign the Caps Lock key to the [CANCEL] command then it acts as a walk/run toggle when pressed." Guess I could try that and see if it works. But I'd still rather have a controller.


 
  
 Even for games that don't work with controller (although I would assume that game does), there are emulators and programs like this.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> Even for games that don't work with controller (although I would assume that game does), there are emulators and programs like this.


 
  
 I'd assume that, with the right configuration, I could connect a PS4/PS3 controller to a PC and assign keys to buttons.


----------



## pureangus62

music alchemist said:


> I'd assume that, with the right configuration, I could connect a PS4/PS3 controller to a PC and assign keys to buttons.


 

 Xbox 360/One controllers can plug right into windows and go. I think for PS3/4 controllers it isnt difficult to get them running on a PC it just requires a simple piece of software or something. Im not a playstation guy so Im not sure exactly. Logitech has some controllers that are essentially a USB plug and play version of a PS one


----------



## Rhamnetin

pureangus62 said:


> Xbox 360/One controllers can plug right into windows and go. I think for PS3/4 controllers it isnt difficult to get them running on a PC it just requires a simple piece of software or something. Im not a playstation guy so Im not sure exactly. Logitech has some controllers that are essentially a USB plug and play version of a PS one


 
  
 Valve has an... awkward controller too.
  
 http://store.steampowered.com/app/353370/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Inputmapper and DS4Windows are two programs that make it easy to use the PS4 controller, and make it appear as a 360 controller.

https://inputmapper.com/downloads/inputmapper-1-5


Can even reassign, and use the touchpad on the controller as a faux-mouse. It's having an issue on my PC (and others) where Exclusive mode isn't kicking in (it needs to, for it to work properly), but they made a program to turn on BEFORE using these two programs. It's a minor hassle, but you only need to turn it on once a day if you plan on using the controller.

https://inputmapper.com/downloads/download/5-tools/63-duleshock-4-exclusive-mode-tool

You just open the program, press any key, and in like 5 seconds it works. Then you open Inputmapper and everything will work fine. A reminder that if you unplug the PS4 controller, you'll have to close Inputmapper and turn on the exclusive mode tool again.

Some people don't even need to do this stuff, but I sure do.

I used to have wired 360 controllers, but the cable always, always splits where it meets the controller, so I stopped buying them. Since I already own a PS4, it just made sense to use it for all my needs. The minor hassle of using two programs isn't a big deal. Turn on the tool, then open input mapper, you're done.

My PS4 controller is on its last leg, however. Light bar stopped working ages ago, the heat off the controller is enough to make your hands uncomfortable, and the dual shock vibration has stopped working almost entirely. Oh, and the grips rubber has all but rubbed off entirely. It's taken some abuse.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mad lust envy said:


> My PS4 controller is on its last leg, however. Light bar stopped working ages ago, the heat off the controller is enough to make your hands uncomfortable, and the dual shock vibration has stopped working almost entirely. Oh, and the grips rubber has all but rubbed off entirely. It's taken some abuse.


 
  
 Hmm. My PS3 controller looked almost like new after years of use.
  
 Is the PS4 controller always hot like that?


----------



## VRacer-111

Used to be mainly a PC only gamer...now it's pretty much only console. Mainly for PC it was racing sims, flight sims, and Mechwarrior series. Pretty much now, all I care about is Destiny and with Assetto Corsa just released for console there is finally a sportscar driving sim on console. Hawken is on console too, so kind of have Mechwarrior covered there. HALO is what really got me started on condole and Hydro Thunder Hurricane has kept me thrre, along with Destiny.


----------



## Music Alchemist

vracer-111 said:


> Used to be mainly a PC only gamer...now it's pretty much only console. Mainly for PC it was racing sims, flight sims, and Mechwarrior series. Pretty much now, all I care about is Destiny and with Assetto Corsa just released for console there is finally a sportscar driving sim on console. Hawken is on console too, so kind of have Mechwarrior covered there. HALO is what really got me started on condole and Hydro Thunder Hurricane has kept me thrre, along with Destiny.


 
  
DRIVECLUB is one of the reasons I'd want a PS4. This other racing game you mentioned makes it even more appealing for me...but I may still end up waiting until they have the reverse compatibility thing figured out.


----------



## Deftone

im looking forward to gears 4 on pc


----------



## Typo

deftone said:


> im looking forward to gears 4 on pc


 

 I hope they fix the windows store by the time they release it.

 I bought quantum break on the winstore and it was forcibly locked to 60 fps, even though I have a 144hz monitor. And you were unable to use steam overlay. I read somewhere they were going to fix both of those things, hopefully Gears will be the game they fix it with. There's no way I'm playing a shooter with locked frames.


----------



## Rhamnetin

typo said:


> I hope they fix the windows store by the time they release it.
> 
> I bought quantum break on the winstore and it was forcibly locked to 60 fps, even though I have a 144hz monitor. And you were unable to use steam overlay. I read somewhere they were going to fix both of those things, hopefully Gears will be the game they fix it with. There's no way I'm playing a shooter with locked frames.


 
  
 Yep, Windows Store exclusive games are a complete mess.  It's worse than Ubisoft games and uPlay.  Neither should be purchased.


----------



## Easy5treet

I've always used console. Although had a 1-2 yr stint around '00-'01, playing Diablo on pc. It was different, but fun. These days I mainly sink my time into The Division on Ps4. First game since golden eye have I been forced to play with others. Lol. Now I'm trying to figure out why the ps4 won't recognize this new Modmic I just bought.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Thanks to everyone for contributing to the thread so far! It's gotten about 1,300 views in a month.


----------



## PL4Y3R 0N3

music alchemist said:


> Thanks to everyone for contributing to the thread so far! It's gotten about 1,300 views in a month.



No prob. I still owe you for keeping my little thread alive in the very beginning.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Here's a cool list of Final Fantasy games available on Steam: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Steam
  


pl4y3r 0n3 said:


> No prob. I still owe you for keeping my little thread alive in the very beginning.


 
  
 I accept payment in headphones. (Just kidding. haha)


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

First off I can't stand the term "GAMER"... Just personal preference I guess...
  
 If you see my name or picture you already know the answer. I prefer old 16bit console games
  
 I started with a sega genesis and Windows 2000 Dell Laptop, but today I really don't like Sega but still love windows 2000. Then I got my DS Lite then Wii then GBA games. eventually a N64 and GBC. Then I realized all the virtual console, GBA and some other games I had been playing were orignaly SNES games. so I got a 1991 SNES... I love it! *The SNES is my all time favorite console.* Yes I own *Earthbound* and *Chrono Trigge*r I love both of them, I got them a few years ago for cheaper so the price wasn't a big deal. My favorite game though is Yoshi's Island Ive been playing it on my GBA since 2008 and SNES version since 2014.
  
 So Yeah lots of Nintendo stuff, but I have played Halo 4, Ratchet and Clank, Gran Tirismo, Forza, Need for Speed ect...
  
 SNES just stuck with me and I love it!
  
 PS: If you have an SNES, N64 or Gamcube get and S-Video cable it will look much better than the yellow Composite.


----------



## Music Alchemist

16 bit bowser said:


> First off I can't stand the term "GAMER"... Just personal preference I guess...
> 
> If you see my name or picture you already know the answer. I prefer old 16bit console games
> 
> ...


 
  
 EarthBound is my second favorite video game of all time! (Final Fantasy VII is my #1.) I got the original box set when it first came out. It sells on eBay for thousands now. Lost most of it over the years, so I only got a few hundred for the cartridge.
  
 You should play Mother 3, which is the sequel to EarthBound, released on Game Boy Advance, but only in Japan, so you have to use the fan translation unless you know Japanese.
  
 Check this out too:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshi%27s_Safari
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Scope


----------



## 16 Bit Bowser

> EarthBound is my second favorite video game of all time! (Final Fantasy VII is my #1.) I got the original box set when it first came out. It sells on eBay for thousands now. Lost most of it over the years, so I only got a few hundred for the cartridge.
> 
> You should play Mother 3, which is the sequel to EarthBound, released on Game Boy Advance, but only in Japan, so you have to use the fan translation unless you know Japanese.


 
 I have looked into Mother 3. Also I have Final fantasy III and IV for the SNES. I really like III but the magic system is to complex. I prefer FF-IV.
  
 Also if you haven't played Dragon Quest, I recommend it, start with "V" A.K.A. "5" the story is crazy good and the battles are like earthbound.
  
 I am currently playing through Star Ocean on an Emulator. It's the largest SNES game ever made and has some voice acting. Saldy it was Japan only. To give it a scale Earthbound and Final Fantasy III were 24-megabit and Star Ocean is 64-megabit.


----------



## Typo

rhamnetin said:


> Yep, Windows Store exclusive games are a complete mess.  It's worse than Ubisoft games and uPlay.  Neither should be purchased.


 

 You know the funny thing is that I'm totally open to using the Windows store. Steam, while great, seems to be running a monopoly and MS made it sound like they were really gonna give Valve a run for their money.

 It's not even like MS has to try.... All they have to do is make the file format like steam. Easily accessible and able to run the game from the exe directly. Hopefully with the release of Quantum Break on steam, they will wake up and realize that if they want to be taken seriously within the PC gaming community, they need to get serious about the quality of the customer experience.

 QB is a great game, I almost want to repurchase it just so I can have it on Steam instead.


----------



## Rhamnetin

typo said:


> You know the funny thing is that I'm totally open to using the Windows store. Steam, while great, seems to be running a monopoly and MS made it sound like they were really gonna give Valve a run for their money.
> 
> It's not even like MS has to try.... All they have to do is make the file format like steam. Easily accessible and able to run the game from the exe directly. Hopefully with the release of Quantum Break on steam, they will wake up and realize that if they want to be taken seriously within the PC gaming community, they need to get serious about the quality of the customer experience.
> 
> QB is a great game, I almost want to repurchase it just so I can have it on Steam instead.


 
  
 Origin has at least responded to Steam and has gotten much better over the years.  I hear their customer service isn't even terrible anymore.  But uPlay and Windows store are just designed to be insulting and unpleasant for now.


----------



## NA Blur

If you are gamer looking for a new headphone that will not break the bank nor will it require a separate amp the Razer BlackShark is a great option. I replaced my TurtleBeach X12 with it because the x12 is has poor build quality. The BlackShark is a closed headphone with detachable microphone. It is terminated into a 3.5mm jack plug with fits right into an Xbox One controller or headphone adapter. The build quality is wonderful, but I will provide one caveat in that it seals so well that is can get warm after hours of use.
  
 I like the sound with no obvious signs of diminishing sound quality. The seal is excellent and it keeps out all game sounds from the external environment. The mic is very sensitive and nobody online has complained of it being too sensitive which I was worried about since I recorded a message and played it back and it sounded as if the mic was very sensitive.


----------



## Rhamnetin

I used to game with headphones, but then I took an arrow in the knee found a Yamaha RX-V579 for only $300 and went from there.
  
 We actually have a thread for headphone gaming right here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/686894/which-headphones-do-you-use-for-pc-gaming
  
 How are the sound stage and imaging capabilities of that BlackShark?  I find gaming headsets always fall short in that regard... and all others actually.  The Audio Technica ATH-A900X at the time (also closed) was far better than all gaming headsets I had tried, which includes some 5.1 headsets (as in they actually have 5 drivers on each side).


----------



## NA Blur

The soundstage is meh, but to me it is more important to have a good closed headphone for positional cues rather than an open headphone that I have to turn up too loud just to hear footsteps.


----------



## Music Alchemist

It's finally happened: my thread has inadvertently become the secondary gaming headphone thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ...Kidding, kidding. One of the main gaming headphone threads is this one:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-3-18-2016-mrspeakers-ether-c-1-1-added
  
 Some o' those Razer headphones look epic!


----------



## MikePio

Not to derail the thread further but I think the HD800 is pretty decent as gaming headphones, the sound is holographic and spacious with plenty of detail, the only downside is listening fatigue after playing for couple hours. Back on topic (sort of) what do you guys think of the PS4 Pro? I am thinking about buying one for Christmas! Or a cheap PC build??? Hmmmmmm. Sony it is!!


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> Back on topic (sort of) what do you guys think of the PS4 Pro?


 
  
 This is the first I've heard of it. Looks like it has better features and has driven the price down of the basic PS4.
  
 Here's the official link: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/explore/ps4-pro/
  
 I won't ever buy a PS4 until they stop being dumb about backwards compatibility.


----------



## Rhamnetin

mikepio said:


> Back on topic (sort of) what do you guys think of the PS4 Pro?


----------



## MikePio

music alchemist said:


> This is the first I've heard of it. Looks like it has better features and has driven the price down of the basic PS4.
> 
> Here's the official link: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/explore/ps4-pro/
> 
> I won't ever buy a PS4 until they stop being dumb about backwards compatibility.


 
  
 Thanks for the official link. That is strange that Sony is so anal about backward compatibility, I mean with Nintendo I can play all the 3ds games and DS games with no problem. Either way, I think I am going to buy it since it will put my 4K TV to good use. I am pretty sure playing some games at 4K would be an amazing experience! 


rhamnetin said:


>


----------



## Amish

mikepio said:


> Either way, I think I am going to buy it since it will put my 4K TV to good use. I am pretty sure playing some games at 4K would be an amazing experience!


 
  
 Don't be shocked if you find almost all games don't actually play at 4k. There may be a few but most games will not and I'd bet money on it. Not to mention full 4K streaming is the only really cool thing about the Pro model. They aren't even including a UHD player. So a few games maybe while most will run at a lower resolution I bet, maybe around 1440p, 4 k streaming and 1080p bluray player.
  
 Kinda a mixed bag IMO. Don't get me wrong though, I love the PS4 but as of right now I see no reason to buy the pro unless you don't already have a standard PS4.


----------



## Music Alchemist

amish said:


> Don't be shocked if you find almost all games don't actually play at 4k. There may be a few but most games will not and I'd bet money on it. Not to mention full 4K streaming is the only really cool thing about the Pro model. They aren't even including a UHD player. So a few games maybe while most will run at a lower resolution I bet, maybe around 1440p, 4 k streaming and 1080p bluray player.
> 
> Kinda a mixed bag IMO. Don't get me wrong though, I love the PS4 but as of right now I see no reason to buy the pro unless you don't already have a standard PS4.


 
  
 I was gonna say. There isn't much 4K content out there as of yet.
  
 And yeah, the PS4 Pro will probably tick off plenty of PS4 owners. As someone who has bought neither, the price (same as the basic PS4 originally was), features, and fancy look of the Pro do appeal to me somewhat...but the inability to play nearly all non-PS4 games is a deal-breaker for me.


----------



## Amish

I never cared about the backwards compatibility myself but yeah I agree it is a much wanted feature. Sony would rather you buy those games again via their digital store (since they keep releasing ps3 titles on their store for download) or they want to make money off us by charging for their club dealio that allows you to play many games for free, but with a monthly fee instead.
  
  
 It's all about the cash.


----------



## Music Alchemist

amish said:


> I never cared about the backwards compatibility myself but yeah I agree it is a much wanted feature. Sony would rather you buy those games again via their digital store (since they keep releasing ps3 titles on their store for download) or they want to make money off us by charging for their club dealio that allows you to play many games for free, but with a monthly fee instead.
> 
> It's all about the cash.


 
  
 I've been a PlayStation gamer since PS1 first came out, so older games are important to me.
  
 And that's another thing. It looks like most (if not all) of the PS3 games can't even be played on PS4! This is regardless of whether we're talking about discs or downloads. I plan on buying digital downloads of many of the PS3 games I used to have as discs, since I sold them off...but who knows when PS4/Vita will let me play them...


----------



## Amish

Just make sure you buy the ones supported by PS4 digital download. Those work fine on the PS4 and their compatibility list continues to grow. But don't hold your breath. lol


----------



## Music Alchemist

amish said:


> Just make sure you buy the ones supported by PS4 digital download. Those work fine on the PS4 and their compatibility list continues to grow. But don't hold your breath. lol


 
  
 Could you link me to a resource that lists the ones that are currently compatible?


----------



## MikePio

amish said:


> Don't be shocked if you find almost all games don't actually play at 4k. There may be a few but most games will not and I'd bet money on it. Not to mention full 4K streaming is the only really cool thing about the Pro model. They aren't even including a UHD player. So a few games maybe while most will run at a lower resolution I bet, maybe around 1440p, 4 k streaming and 1080p bluray player.
> 
> Kinda a mixed bag IMO. Don't get me wrong though, I love the PS4 but as of right now I see no reason to buy the pro unless you don't already have a standard PS4.


 
  
 I checked that out, seems like there are already some games getting the "4K" makeover. I just think the future of console gaming would be a natural progression to the 4K resolution since many new TV's are coming out that are 4K, plus prices are dropping so getting a 4K TV isn't as expensive as it once was. But for people who already own the PS4, it would probably be better for them to wait. I think i will wait and see what the reviews are like when the console comes out and what games are supported before I decide if I want the PS4 pro under my Christmas tree.


----------



## Rhamnetin

amish said:


> Don't be shocked if you find almost all games don't actually play at 4k. There may be a few but most games will not and I'd bet money on it. Not to mention full 4K streaming is the only really cool thing about the Pro model. They aren't even including a UHD player. So a few games maybe while most will run at a lower resolution I bet, maybe around 1440p, 4 k streaming and 1080p bluray player.
> 
> Kinda a mixed bag IMO. Don't get me wrong though, I love the PS4 but as of right now I see no reason to buy the pro unless you don't already have a standard PS4.


 
  
 They won't run at 1440p due to the interpolation needed for that. They will be 1080p upscaled to 4k, with a few native 4k games that run at 30 FPS and below.  Basically a repeat of PS3's "1080p" support.
  
 In other news I am building my brother his first gaming PC, as he has chosen to ascend to the master race and sell his PS4!  Corsair Obsidian 250D, Gigabyte Z170 WiFi, G.SKILL Ripjaws V 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 CL15, EVGA GTX 1060 SC, Seasonic G series 550W, Sandisk X400 128GB SSD + WD 1TB HDD, Creative Sound Blaster Omni, Ducky DK9087 Shine II w/ Cherry MX Reds, Mionix Castor mouse.  Hell of a first build + dozens of games to start off with.  It was PC exclusive games and mods that appealed to him most.
  
 If you're getting into PC gaming but don't know much about PC building it benefits you greatly to know someone who is into that sort of thing, since he won't have to do any setup or configuration at all.  I'm setting him up with a Steam account, installing games and mods for him, installing some software and also tweaking certain games via drivers and ReShade, etc.


----------



## Amish

I would keep the PS4 tbh. There are still some great games on it and more to come that will not find their way to PC. I always laugh when people talk about the PC master race lol. Who was it that coined that? Zero Punctuation? 
  
I do 90% of my gaming on PC but I believe as a gamer; any gamer would be happy to play games by any possible way. I love console gaming.
  
You are most likely right about the 1440p resolution. I'm sure many will just be upscaled to 4k. I have no interest in 4k at 30 fps. Honestly I don't care about 4k gaming at all. 1080p still looks awesome, more so if you have a beast of a PC to run the games with all the bells and whistles cranked up.
  
One day 4K will be the standard but until then I will gladly play my games at 1080p and be very happy.
  
The PS4 pro from what is currently known now will be a gimped 4k device. The new xbox Microsoft is working on looks like the better 4k unit out of the box. It will even ship with a UHD player built in. 
  
I would rather Sony delay the release and actually give us a better gaming console later.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> They won't run at 1440p due to the interpolation needed for that. They will be 1080p upscaled to 4k, with a few native 4k games that run at 30 FPS and below.  Basically a repeat of PS3's "1080p" support.
> 
> In other news I am building my brother his first gaming PC, as he has chosen to ascend to the master race and sell his PS4!  Corsair Obsidian 250D, Gigabyte Z170 WiFi, G.SKILL Ripjaws V 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 CL15, EVGA GTX 1060 SC, Seasonic G series 550W, Sandisk X400 128GB SSD + WD 1TB HDD, Creative Sound Blaster Omni, Ducky DK9087 Shine II w/ Cherry MX Reds, Mionix Castor mouse.  Hell of a first build + dozens of games to start off with.  It was PC exclusive games and mods that appealed to him most.
> 
> If you're getting into PC gaming but don't know much about PC building it benefits you greatly to know someone who is into that sort of thing, since he won't have to do any setup or configuration at all.  I'm setting him up with a Steam account, installing games and mods for him, installing some software and also tweaking certain games via drivers and ReShade, etc.


 
  
 Can you describe the limitations of 1080p on PS3? When I first hooked up an HDMI cable to play games in HD, it blew my mind how much better it looked.
  
 Gee. I might pay you to do things for me when I decide to build a custom PC!


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> Can you describe the limitations of 1080p on PS3? When I first hooked up an HDMI cable to play games in HD, it blew my mind how much better it looked.
> 
> Gee. I might pay you to do things for me when I decide to build a custom PC!


 
  
 Most PS3 games (over 90%) run at 720p but can be upscaled to 1080p.  Only very few are native 1080p.
  
 Also, consoles upscaling isn't a big deal really.  It looks ever so slightly better than native 720p, but higher end TVs have their own upscaling that is at least as good.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> Most PS3 games (over 90%) run at 720p but can be upscaled to 1080p.  Only very few are native 1080p.
> 
> Also, consoles upscaling isn't a big deal really.  It looks ever so slightly better than native 720p, but higher end TVs have their own upscaling that is at least as good.


 
  
 But when it says 1080p on the box, that means it's native, right? And does simply connecting an HDMI cable automatically upscale it to 1080p? If not, under which circumstances is that done? Because I thought it would just let it do its thing, whether it be 720p or 1080p.


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> But when it says 1080p on the box, that means it's native, right? And does simply connecting an HDMI cable automatically upscale it to 1080p? If not, under which circumstances is that done? Because I thought it would just let it do its thing, whether it be 720p or 1080p.


 
  
 If you set the PS3 to 1080p mode, that makes the system's menus all native 1080p while the vast majority of games will run at 720p upscaled to 1080p.  The few native 1080p games will run at native 1080p like this (I think LittleBigPlanet is one such game).


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> If you set the PS3 to 1080p mode, that makes the system's menus all native 1080p while the vast majority of games will run at 720p upscaled to 1080p.  The few native 1080p games will run at native 1080p like this (I think LittleBigPlanet is one such game).


 
  
 I'm just gonna assume that when it says 1080p on the back of the game box, that means it's native 1080p. And I'd say there are more than a few.


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> I'm just gonna assume that when it says 1080p on the back of the game box, that means it's native 1080p. And I'd say there are more than a few.


 
  
 That has been debunked.  When they say 1080p on the back that means native or upscaled, it's ambiguous and just another example of sleezy marketing.  As of December 2013, it seems only 9 games supported native 1080p.
  
 http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-General/Playstation-3-1080P-games-list/td-p/42432035/page/2
  
 PS3 has 256 MB VRAM and a GPU equivalent to a GeForce 7800GTX at best.  1080p couldn't be run comfortably even in PC gaming until 2 years later (after one revolutionary GPU architecture change as well).


----------



## SixthFall

nope, he is right. The VAST majority of games were up scaled from 720. The ps3 and 360 really didn't have the processing power to push native 1080p in games. Look at GTA V. One of the more demanding games of that generation, and it frequently dips into the low 20's (fps) during game play (and its upscaled from 720 to 1080p.)


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> That has been debunked.  When they say 1080p on the back that means native or upscaled, it's ambiguous and just another example of sleezy marketing.  As of December 2013, it seems only 9 games supported native 1080p.
> 
> http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-General/Playstation-3-1080P-games-list/td-p/42432035/page/2
> 
> PS3 has 256 MB VRAM and a GPU equivalent to a GeForce 7800GTX at best.  1080p couldn't be run comfortably even in PC gaming until 2 years later (after one revolutionary GPU architecture change as well).


 


sixthfall said:


> nope, he is right. The VAST majority of games were up scaled from 720. The ps3 and 360 really didn't have the processing power to push native 1080p in games. Look at GTA V. One of the more demanding games of that generation, and it frequently dips into the low 20's (fps) during game play (and its upscaled from 720 to 1080p.)


 
  
 Well that sucks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That's what I get for assuming things...
  
 Anyway, even if it is just 720p or upscaled 1080p, some of those PS3 games look great!
  
 I've been watching anime in 1080p lately and was surprised how much better it looks.


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> Well that sucks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep, 1080p is 2.25x larger than 720p. Huge improvement, millions more pixels.  My resolution (2560 x 1440) is about 1.78x larger than 1080p, and 3840 x 2160 is 4x larger than 1080p hence the name 4k.  4k is 2.25x larger than my resolution.
  
 4k will become the new standard even though console games won't really be running at it save for a few, but it will be very temporary for me.  5k (5120 x 2880, 1.78x larger than 4k and 4x larger than my current resolution) looks to me like the resolution where aliasing is no longer a problem, so in a few years that will be my target.


----------



## SixthFall

rhamnetin said:


> Yep, 1080p is 2.25x larger than 720p. Huge improvement, millions more pixels.  My resolution (2560 x 1440) is about 1.78x larger than 1080p, and 3840 x 2160 is 4x larger than 1080p hence the name 4k.  4k is 2.25x larger than my resolution.
> 
> 4k will become the new standard even though console games won't really be running at it save for a few, but it will be very temporary for me.  5k (5120 x 2880, 1.78x larger than 4k and 4x larger than my current resolution) looks to me like the resolution where aliasing is no longer a problem, so in a few years that will be my target.


 
 Well have fun with the 4 way sli titan xp! LOL


----------



## Rhamnetin

sixthfall said:


> Well have fun with the 4 way sli titan xp! LOL


 
  
 Haha, I did say a few years.  Titan XP will be old news by then.  Also I think Titan XP only supports 2-way SLI, NVIDIA has discontinued Tri-SLI and 4-way SLI.


----------



## octiceps

mikepio said:


> Back on topic (sort of) what do you guys think of the PS4 Pro?




I'm a PC-only guy, but I'm _very_ interested in whether the PS4 Pro's 2x2 checkerboard rendering, or similarly advanced upscaling techniques via temporal reconstruction, will ever become mainstream on PC titles. It was implemented really well in Rainbow Six Siege, which is the only title on PC that uses checkerboard AFAIK. The requisite hardware for native 4K gaming is still a GPU generation or two away from becoming affordable to the average consumer, but 2 x 1080p upscaled to 4K with a "native" pixel count is much more feasible for current hardware. I was at a Fry's Electronics the other day, looking at 4K in-engine stills from Horizon Zero Dawn on a 4K monitor, and the only giveaway that it was upscaled was the sawtooth pattern aliasing on some edges, temporal artifacts which only show up in static screenshots (MFAA does the same thing on PC). During actual gameplay motion, I'd imagine it would be indistinguishable from native 4K, especially at typical TV viewing distances. 

Not to mention, it's useful for VR perf optimization. I remember Valve's talk at GDC this year on how they got VR running on a GTX 680, which is well below VR minspec. One of the optimizations they did to achieve that was radial density masking to skip rendering alternate pixels at the user's peripheral vision and reconstruct those missing pixels using a checkerboard pattern filter.


----------



## Rhamnetin

octiceps said:


> I'm a PC-only guy, but I'm _very_ interested in whether the PS4 Pro's 2x2 checkerboard rendering, or similarly advanced upscaling techniques via temporal reconstruction, will ever become mainstream on PC titles. It was implemented really well in Rainbow Six Siege, which is the only title on PC that uses checkerboard AFAIK. The requisite hardware for native 4K gaming is still a GPU generation or two away from becoming affordable to the average consumer, but 2 x 1080p upscaled to 4K with a "native" pixel count is much more feasible for current hardware. I was at a Fry's Electronics the other day, looking at 4K in-engine stills from Horizon Zero Dawn on a 4K monitor, and the only giveaway that it was upscaled was the sawtooth pattern aliasing on some edges, temporal artifacts which only show up in static screenshots (MFAA does the same thing on PC). During actual gameplay motion, I'd imagine it would be indistinguishable from native 4K, especially at typical TV viewing distances.
> 
> Not to mention, it's useful for VR perf optimization. I remember Valve's talk at GDC this year on how they got VR running on a GTX 680, which is well below VR minspec. One of the optimizations they did to achieve that was radial density masking to skip rendering alternate pixels at the user's peripheral vision and reconstruct those missing pixels using a checkerboard pattern filter.


 
  
 Alternatively you can use downsampling on PC, which is also implemented into many games.  Then there is supersampling.
  
 Interesting that you praise it so much though.  I'm going to have to get Rainbow Six: Siege and test it side by side on a 1080p monitor and 4k monitor.


----------



## octiceps

rhamnetin said:


> Alternatively you can use downsampling on PC, which is also implemented into many games.  Then there is supersampling.
> 
> Interesting that you praise it so much though.  I'm going to have to get Rainbow Six: Siege and test it side by side on a 1080p monitor and 4k monitor.


 
  
 Downsampling/supersampling is the opposite of what I'm talking about, which is upscaling.
  
 To enable checkerboard upscaling in R6 Siege, you have to set MSAA to Temporal Filtering. This renders at half-res (960x540 on 1080p, 1080p on 4K) with 2x MSAA and upscales to native. IQ Comparison


----------



## Rhamnetin

octiceps said:


> Downsampling/supersampling is the opposite of what I'm talking about, which is upscaling.
> 
> To enable checkerboard upscaling in R6 Siege, you have to set MSAA to Temporal Filtering. This renders at half-res (960x540 on 1080p, 1080p on 4K) with 2x MSAA and upscales to native. IQ Comparison


 
  
 I know it's the opposite, but both result in a picture that's... better than using none of the above.  But like you indicated, I think the reason upscaling is largely absent on PC gaming is because we have access to whatever resolutions are available in the display industry.  Dell has a 5120 x 2880 Ultrasharp monitor, we can play at native 4k, or 3440 x 1440, and now (or soon) 3840 x 1600. 
  
 A GTX 1080 actually does quite well in a lot of modern games at 4k; not max settings but settings that look close enough.  I think Volta will make 4k feasible for most gamers if they can afford it.  This all reminds me of 8-10 years ago; PS4 Pro's half-assed 4k support resembling PS3's 1080p support (they simply aren't/weren't powerful enough), high PCs being almost powerful enough for those resolutions but still not quite there yet.


----------



## octiceps

rhamnetin said:


> I know it's the opposite, but both result in a picture that's... better than using none of the above.  But like you indicated, I think the reason upscaling is largely absent on PC gaming is because we have access to whatever resolutions are available in the display industry.  Dell has a 5120 x 2880 Ultrasharp monitor, we can play at native 4k, or 3440 x 1440, and now (or soon) 3840 x 1600.
> 
> A GTX 1080 actually does quite well in a lot of modern games at 4k; not max settings but settings that look close enough.  I think Volta will make 4k feasible for most gamers if they can afford it.  This all reminds me of 8-10 years ago; PS4 Pro's half-assed 4k support resembling PS3's 1080p support (they simply aren't/weren't powerful enough), high PCs being almost powerful enough for those resolutions but still not quite there yet.


 
  
 Downsampling from a higher resolution than native increases image quality at the cost of performance. Upscaling from a lower resolution than native increases performance at the cost of image quality. The point of temporal reconstruction techniques like checkerboard is to mitigate that image quality loss as much as possible. Upscaling has always been a thing in PC games that let you select arbitrary resolutions, it just looks like blurry crap on anything less than native on an LCD. With ultrawide 1440p, 4K, and 5K monitors becoming more mainstream, the need for quality upscaling on PC has never been greater. Why spend crazy money on flagship GPUs to run at native res when you can render at a fraction of that and amortize the cost of native res rendering over multiple sub-native frames while maintaining good image quality? Efficiency > brute force in my book. Even something as simple as nearest neighbor integer upscaling for non-blurry fullscreen 1080p on a 4K monitor, or 1440p on a 5K, would be a godsend if implemented in Nvidia/AMD drivers, but ofc the IHVs don't give a rat's ass as they're in the business of selling you overpriced graphics cards so you can brute-force your way to native resolution.
  
 And no, a GTX 1080 is not even close to being a 4K GPU IMO, not even a Titan XP for that matter. A 1080 already has min FPS below 60 at 1080p in recent, demanding titles at near-max to max settings such as TW3 w/HairWorks, DX:MD (Ultra no MSAA), and Forza Horizon 3. PS3 used blurry upscaling algos without the benefit of 2x MSAA that was free for the X360's eDRAM, PS4 Pro uses state-of-the-art techniques like checkerboard that have near-native IQ with HDR on top of that, so really nothing in common, plus Sony made it crystal-clear this time around that Pro is not for native 4K gaming.


----------



## Rhamnetin

octiceps said:


> Downsampling from a higher resolution than native increases image quality at the cost of performance. Upscaling from a lower resolution than native increases performance at the cost of image quality. The point of temporal reconstruction techniques like checkerboard is to mitigate that image quality loss as much as possible. Upscaling has always been a thing in PC games that let you select arbitrary resolutions, it just looks like blurry crap on anything less than native on an LCD. With ultrawide 1440p, 4K, and 5K monitors becoming more mainstream, the need for quality upscaling on PC has never been greater. Why spend crazy money on flagship GPUs to run at native res when you can render at a fraction of that and amortize the cost of native res rendering over multiple sub-native frames while maintaining good image quality? Efficiency > brute force in my book. Even something as simple as nearest neighbor integer upscaling for non-blurry fullscreen 1080p on a 4K monitor, or 1440p on a 5K, would be a godsend if implemented in Nvidia/AMD drivers, but ofc the IHVs don't give a rat's ass as they're in the business of selling you overpriced graphics cards so you can brute-force your way to native resolution.
> 
> And no, a GTX 1080 is not even close to being a 4K GPU IMO, not even a Titan XP for that matter. A 1080 already has min FPS below 60 at 1080p in recent, demanding titles at near-max to max settings such as TW3 w/HairWorks, DX:MD (Ultra no MSAA), and Forza Horizon 3. PS3 used blurry upscaling algos without the benefit of 2x MSAA that was free for the X360's eDRAM, PS4 Pro uses state-of-the-art techniques like checkerboard that have near-native IQ with HDR on top of that, so really nothing in common, plus Sony made it crystal-clear this time around that Pro is not for native 4K gaming.


 
  
 Most PC gamers including myself don't want to run sub-native resolutions unless absolutely necessary.  If I had a 4k monitor for example, with my GTX 1080 yes I'd want good upscaling for some games until I get a GPU more capable of the resolution.
  
 For a GTX 1080 at 4k you just need to disable poorly optimized settings like TW3's Hairworks.  Remember: 99% of PC games are developed with "High" preset in mind, many are even "Medium."  Ultra is tacked on last minute and often has inefficient settings that don't affect image quality much.


----------



## octiceps

rhamnetin said:


> Most PC gamers including myself don't want to run sub-native resolutions unless absolutely necessary.




And why is that? Because sub-native output has traditionally meant crappy image quality, no? But that's because upscaling algos in the past have been terrible, which these new techniques are attempting to solve. Look at the R6 Siege comparison I posted earlier. If I didn't tell you, would you have guessed that one was rendering at 1920x1080, and the other at 960x540 (1/4 the pixels)? If good upscaling gets you 50% higher FPS, or lets you play at 60 FPS instead of 30 FPS, and the visual difference is miniscule vs. native, doesn't native fall under the same "inefficiency" argument you made about Ultra settings?

This also begs the question: What does native resolution really mean? As far as I'm aware, there are basically zero modern games that are native res for all their render targets. Maybe a Crysis-like game on PC at absolute max settings, but even that I doubt as it makes no sense from a developmental standpoint being it's a huge waste of resources. AO in games is usually computed at half-res and upscaled using a blur filter so it doesn't appear "rough". SSR and volumetric lighting are often sub-native res as well. If you define native in terms of pixel count, then yes, a PS4 Pro game rendered at 4K using checkerboard is native. It's using real rendered pixels to reconstruct half the image, and the reconstructed pixels are 100% correct data, not guesswork or approximations, so in that sense you might not even call it an upscale. Native resolution isn't as cut-and-dry as most PC gamers think it is.


----------



## MikePio

octiceps said:


> I'm a PC-only guy, but I'm _very_ interested in whether the PS4 Pro's 2x2 checkerboard rendering, or similarly advanced upscaling techniques via temporal reconstruction, will ever become mainstream on PC titles. It was implemented really well in Rainbow Six Siege, which is the only title on PC that uses checkerboard AFAIK. The requisite hardware for native 4K gaming is still a GPU generation or two away from becoming affordable to the average consumer, but 2 x 1080p upscaled to 4K with a "native" pixel count is much more feasible for current hardware. I was at a Fry's Electronics the other day, looking at 4K in-engine stills from Horizon Zero Dawn on a 4K monitor, and the only giveaway that it was upscaled was the sawtooth pattern aliasing on some edges, temporal artifacts which only show up in static screenshots (MFAA does the same thing on PC). During actual gameplay motion, I'd imagine it would be indistinguishable from native 4K, especially at typical TV viewing distances.
> 
> Not to mention, it's useful for VR perf optimization. I remember Valve's talk at GDC this year on how they got VR running on a GTX 680, which is well below VR minspec. One of the optimizations they did to achieve that was radial density masking to skip rendering alternate pixels at the user's peripheral vision and reconstruct those missing pixels using a checkerboard pattern filter.


 
  
 Sounds very interesting indeed! Though I must admit, lots of this technical stuff just goes over my head 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Seems like the PS4 pro would be the more affordable option when playing 4K games? Or perhaps I am mistaken... Either way, I am eagerly awaiting the release of the console and surely will purchase it when it comes out! I will let you guy know what I think.


----------



## Rhamnetin

octiceps said:


> And why is that? Because sub-native output has traditionally meant crappy image quality, no? But that's because upscaling algos in the past have been terrible, which these new techniques are attempting to solve. Look at the R6 Siege comparison I posted earlier. If I didn't tell you, would you have guessed that one was rendering at 1920x1080, and the other at 960x540 (1/4 the pixels)? If good upscaling gets you 50% higher FPS, or lets you play at 60 FPS instead of 30 FPS, and the visual difference is miniscule vs. native, doesn't native fall under the same "inefficiency" argument you made about Ultra settings?
> 
> This also begs the question: What does native resolution really mean? As far as I'm aware, there are basically zero modern games that are native res for all their render targets. Maybe a Crysis-like game on PC at absolute max settings, but even that I doubt as it makes no sense from a developmental standpoint being it's a huge waste of resources. AO in games is usually computed at half-res and upscaled using a blur filter so it doesn't appear "rough". SSR and volumetric lighting are often sub-native res as well. If you define native in terms of pixel count, then yes, a PS4 Pro game rendered at 4K using checkerboard is native. It's using real rendered pixels to reconstruct half the image, and the reconstructed pixels are 100% correct data, not guesswork or approximations, so in that sense you might not even call it an upscale. Native resolution isn't as cut-and-dry as most PC gamers think it is.


 
  
 I really have to do this RB6 Siege test.  I'll let you know how it looks to me, won't be able to do it until November or later though since I won't have access to a 4k display until then.  It sounds promising, although that comparison from NVIDIA that you linked to earlier doesn't seem all that significant.
  
 Native resolution as the term is typically used refers to when the game's rendering resolution and output resolution are the same and no upscaling or extrapolating is used, no need to complicate this term.  It isn't inclusive for various other aspects like textures or reflections or ambient occlusion.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you wanna know what checkerboard rendering looks like on a console game, play Killzone: Shadow Fall on PS4 (dubbed temporal reprojection. The effect was WELL done. Static images looked like native 1080p, and you could only see artifacts with some movement, not enough to detract from the overall fidelity of the game (still one of the best looking current gen games, despite it being a launch title).

As for what resolution the PS4 Pro is using for upscaling, some devs have claimed that they are using 1440p, and even 1800p (IIRC) in their game and checkerboard rendering to 4K. So the blanket statement that they're using 1080p upscaling, is false. Not entirely, as maybe SOME games may use 1080p as a base, but it's not the standard.

In any case, I sold my base PS4 and pre-ordered the Pro. Unlike the casuals that think there's no real improvement, I know better. The last thing I wanna do is play a game like Bloodbourne and FFXV that drops to 15fps when the action gets heavy. With the Pro, that is less likely to happen, if not outright improved upon. We're essentially getting a 1080p + higher framerate Rise of Tomb Raider as an option over the base "4K"/30fps default. That alone is worth it to me for console games over the base PS4. I'll take 1080p/consistent fps, over the crap we've been getting with the base PS4 as of late. Even titles known to stay locked at 60 before, and now getting severe fps dips, like CoD games. AW and BLOPS 3 had a ton of fps drops in their campaigns, when before, that wouldn't happen.

I'm really interested in seeing more and more devs using checkerboard rendering even for PC, as it can lead to not so grossly overpriced GPUs giving us a very good 4K-lite image for a considerable price reduction. Old school upscaling methods pale in comparison to checkerboard rendering. Imagine a GTX1070 being able to hit 4K/60 with high settings if they used checkerboard rendering. Right now, 4K/high settings is still a struggle with the 1080 and Titan XP on AAA titles. You have to start cherry picking, and dialing down settings to remain at a locked 60. Checkerboard rendering will ease the performance requirement by a bit and yield better than 1440p image.


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> If you wanna know what checkerboard rendering looks like on a console game, play Killzone: Shadow Fall on PS4 (dubbed temporal reprojection. The effect was WELL done. Static images looked like native 1080p, and you could only see artifacts with some movement, not enough to detract from the overall fidelity of the game (still one of the best looking current gen games, despite it being a launch title).




Checkerboard (introduced in R6 Siege) is an improved version of the scanline interlacing used in KZS MP. The visual result is better because for every pixel there is correct data at 4 neighboring pixels, while scanline interlacing has no neighbor data in the X direction at all.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What I'm trying to say is that it works, and will yield really good results.

The only thing that is bothering me based on all that has been shown, is that most of the titles shown are still showing dips to 25fps and such in their 4k modes, which to me is absolutely unacceptable. Doing these improvements, yet STILL sacrificing a consistent framerate is really just baffling. 

Last I checked, Sony gave specific instructions that games should not run worse than in the base PS4 in the leaked documents. 25fps dips on 'new' hardware is simply unforgivable. As long as there is an option for a lower res, higher fps performance, I'll be fine with it, but who knows how many devs will give us the option. So far I've only heard Tomb Raider and Shadow of Mordor doing this. Infamous has a better unlocked fps than before, but who knows.


----------



## MikePio

Check this link out: PS4 pro built PC! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pretty cool and informative. 
  
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/we-built-a-pc-using-ps4-pro-specs-how-does-it-perf/1100-6443491/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The aforementioned checkerboard upscaling is something not utilized in PC gaming, so it's not easy to compare a PC to a Pro, even with identical specs. From Digital Foundry's findings, the checkerboard rendering seems to have a higher pixel count than 1440p, and will look 4k in many instances.

This is something people just seem to be disregarding.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Man, you guys are pros. I always thought I was a semi-serious gamer, but I feel like such a novice now. But I don't focus much on the technical stuff. The main thing I care about is the game itself. If the graphics and so on aren't the best, that's not a problem for me. Same goes for music. Some of the most amazing games and music I've experienced didn't have fancy production.


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> The aforementioned checkerboard upscaling is something not utilized in PC gaming, so it's not easy to compare a PC to a Pro, even with identical specs. From Digital Foundry's findings, the checkerboard rendering seems to have a higher pixel count than 1440p, and will look 4k in many instances.
> 
> This is something people just seem to be disregarding.


 
  
 Well, this isn't entirely true. As I mentioned, R6 Siege uses checkerboard rendering on all its available platforms (this includes PC), but it's doing it from half-res (0.5x0.5) with 2x MSAA. The 2x2 method that Sony is talking about would be upscaling from 2x1080p, which is around 1527p, to 4K.


----------



## Rhamnetin

octiceps said:


> Well, this isn't entirely true. As I mentioned, R6 Siege uses checkerboard rendering on all its available platforms (this includes PC), but it's doing it from half-res (0.5x0.5) with 2x MSAA. The 2x2 method that Sony is talking about would be upscaling from 2x1080p, which is around 1527p, to 4K.


 
  
 Which makes the most sense.  1440p is an odd resolution, pixels don't divide evenly into 4k so I can't see that being used.  That, and because 1440p is a fairly demanding resolution.  What's the PS4 Pro's GPU roughly equivalent to?


----------



## octiceps

rhamnetin said:


> Which makes the most sense.  1440p is an odd resolution, pixels don't divide evenly into 4k so I can't see that being used.  That, and because 1440p is a fairly demanding resolution.  What's the PS4 Pro's GPU roughly equivalent to?


 
  
 2x1080p is 2715x1527 which is more pixels than 1440p. PS4 Pro's GPU is a full 2304 shader/36CU Polaris 10 die (same as RX 480) running at 911MHz core with 1700MHz (6800MHz effective) VRAM which gives it 4.2TFLOPS and 218GB/s.


----------



## Rhamnetin

octiceps said:


> 2x1080p is 2715x1527 which is more pixels than 1440p. PS4 Pro's GPU is a full 2304 shader/36CU Polaris 10 die (same as RX 480) running at 911MHz core with 1700MHz (6800MHz effective) VRAM which gives it 4.2TFLOPS and 218GB/s.


 
  
 Whoops, you're right.  Not bad, although I hear Microsoft's next XBOX is even more powerful.  None of these are as powerful relative to the time as the PS3 though.  Its GPU wasn't too far off from the flagship at the time of its release.  But then again the PS3 was like $600.


----------



## octiceps

rhamnetin said:


> Whoops, you're right.  Not bad, although I hear Microsoft's next XBOX is even more powerful.  None of these are as powerful relative to the time as the PS3 though.  Its GPU wasn't too far off from the flagship at the time of its release.  But then again the PS3 was like $600.


 
  
 Scorpio has a 6TFLOP GPU with 320GB/s of BW which is rumored to be a Vega chip.
  
 Er no. PS3 came out after G80 (8800 GTX). Its GPU was a die-shrunk 7800 GTX with a neutered ROP and memory bus. 8800 GTX was about 3x as fast as the full-fat 7800 GTX. You're thinking of X360.


----------



## Rhamnetin

octiceps said:


> Scorpio has a 6TFLOP GPU with 320GB/s of BW which is rumored to be a Vega chip.
> 
> Er no. PS3 came out after G80 (8800 GTX). Its GPU was a die-shrunk 7800 GTX with a neutered ROP and memory bus. 8800 GTX was about 3x as fast as the full-fat 7800 GTX. You're thinking of X360.


 
  
 I was thinking that the PS3 predated G80 actually.  Then yes, the 360 it was.  G80 was the biggest GPU leap I've experienced in my PC gaming lifetime and probably the most significant architectural change.
  
 - EDIT: Speaking of G80 (and G92 and GT200), I've been playing around with these in a nostalgic side build of mine:
  

  
 Seeing how far they can overclock and testing games/benchmarks from that time period, since back then I only dreamed of owning that stuff.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Will be using that build it for some Neverwinter Nights 2 LAN games as well.


----------



## octiceps

Could also double as a space heater during winter time.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> - EDIT: Speaking of G80 (and G92 and GT200), I've been playing around with these in a nostalgic side build of mine:
> 
> Seeing how far they can overclock and testing games/benchmarks from that time period, since back then I only dreamed of owning that stuff.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am so turned on by those. Reminds me of these:
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> I am so turned on by those. Reminds me of these:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
  
 lol, interesting similarities in shape.  Although my favorite looking graphics card of all time is the EVGA GTX 1080 FTW.  Not my photos below:
  

  

  
  

  
  
 It uses RGB LEDs so the lighting shown in the bottom picture can be changed to any color really.  Speaking of GTX 1080s, I'll be selling mine and picking up this beauty, since it'll cost a lot less than water cooling mine:
  
 https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1080-30TH-ANNIVERSARY.html#hero-overview


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rhamnetin said:


> Which makes the most sense.  1440p is an odd resolution, pixels don't divide evenly into 4k so I can't see that being used.  That, and because 1440p is a fairly demanding resolution.  What's the PS4 Pro's GPU roughly equivalent to?




http://the-witness.net/news/2016/09/were-doing-a-ps4-pro-patch-here-are-the-technical-details/]



> We’re doing a PS4 Pro patch! Here are the technical details.
> Jonathan Blow September 8, 2016Uncategorized
> Now that the PlayStation 4 Pro has been announced, we can tell you that we are working on a PS4 Pro patch for The Witness.
> 
> ...




As I said, 1440p or more.

For easy to run games, it's not impossible that they'd use a 1440p image and checkerboard upscale that to 2880, then downscale that down to 2160p (4k). Whether that is true or not, I don't know.

There are also some native 4K games. The Last of Us is one game running at NATIVE 4K, no checkerboard upscaling. Considering that the system can do 4K which is more taxing than 1080x2 checkerboard rendering, it's easily believable for them to do the same with 1440x2 at least for games that aren't too demanding.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rhamnetin said:


> lol, interesting similarities in shape.  Although my favorite looking graphics card of all time is the EVGA GTX 1080 FTW.  Not my photos below:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm actually considering a built with the EVGA 1080 FTW *Hybrid* inside a Evolv ITX case. However, the caveat is that I'd be using it with a Dark Rock Pro 3 air CPU cooler. I want that cooler, and I don't need/want to watercool my CPU.

Looking into a watercooled GPU because I really wanna build in that case, and that case is known to be horrible on GPU temps for air cooled GPUs. Such is my luck. I'd have easily just bought a 1080 Superclocked/FTW instead.

As for that 30th Anniversary card, I have a feeling it'll creep up close to the Titan X price. Screw that, just save up and get a Titan X if you're already gonna pay $1000.

I think by the time I get around building, the 1080Ti will be out.


----------



## Music Alchemist

So what are you guys' favorite game genres?
  
 A few of mine are RPGs, racing, action-adventure, platform, survival horror, and stealth.


----------



## Rhamnetin

wRPG first and foremost, followed by (in no particular order) survival horror + psychological or existential horror, stealth, puzzle with a twist (as in it can't just be about the puzzles), Total War's style of RTS.


----------



## Digitalis

PC gamer here, I'm aware this may be considered an incendiary opinion but my take is that Consoles have lost their way over the past decade, they are trying to be too much like Pc's...when they simply don't have the computational and IO flexibility. A lot of stuff is gated by proprietary means on consoles...while such restrictions and limitations simply do not exist on PC.
  
 Favorite Genre?  RPG, Stealth ( I can't wait for Dishonored 2) Space sim (Elite Dangerous pilot here, though when I was young I used to play an _unhealthy _amount of X-Wing and Tie-Fighter)
  
 I wish some developer would come out with a new star wars flight sim game.


----------



## Amish

I like survival sand box type games, RPG, space sims, racing sims, adventure. I used to be a huge fps guy but I've found myself drifting away from those games. I really dig high fantasy games.


----------



## artofmanliness

Playstation fanboy here. LOL. But I play a little bit on my PC.


----------



## Music Alchemist

artofmanliness said:


> Playstation fanboy here. LOL. But I play a little bit on my PC.


 
  
 Since PS1s are like $15 used now, I might get another one. (Sold off most of my consoles.) Some of the best times of my life were on PS1. lol
  
 What I like about the original (larger) PS1 (as opposed to the smaller revision) is that I could hook up a GameShark Pro to the back and create my own cheat codes by manipulating the game's programming! I achieved things many wouldn't imagine were possible in some games, like making characters fly/float and such.


----------



## artofmanliness

music alchemist said:


> Since PS1s are like $15 used now, I might get another one. (Sold off most of my consoles.) Some of the best times of my life were on PS1. lol
> 
> What I like about the original (larger) PS1 (as opposed to the smaller revision) is that I could hook up a GameShark Pro to the back and create my own cheat codes by manipulating the game's programming! I achieved things many wouldn't imagine were possible in some games, like making characters fly/float and such.


 
 LOL! I used my gameshark as a CD. I remember I played Monster Rancher 2 (Which is so awesome by the way) and was having a hard time beating it. And used the codes to buff my monsters. After my friends see the stats of my monster, they were like, "Woah! how did you make your monster's ATK all the way to 999?" Haha! Good ol' days. Not like today, you freakin' buy the unlockable contents online by paying! 
  
 Anyhow, my PS1, PS2 and PS3 is still in my possession. Hehe. The only slim version I have is my PS3.
  
 I say you are a good if you programmed those cheats! How old were you then? LOL


----------



## Music Alchemist

artofmanliness said:


> LOL! I used my gameshark as a CD. I remember I played Monster Rancher 2 (Which is so awesome by the way) and was having a hard time beating it. And used the codes to buff my monsters. After my friends see the stats of my monster, they were like, "Woah! how did you make your monster's ATK all the way to 999?" Haha! Good ol' days. Not like today, you freakin' buy the unlockable contents online by paying!
> 
> Anyhow, my PS1, PS2 and PS3 is still in my possession. Hehe. The only slim version I have is my PS3.
> 
> I say you are a good if you programmed those cheats! How old were you then? LOL


 
  
 I think the GameShark CDs don't let you program your own cheat codes, though.
  
 Like 10 or 12. haha. Basically how it works is you look at how the code changes every time something in the game changes, and then once you've got the pattern locked down, you manipulate the code a certain way, and then the cheat you created works all the time!


----------



## artofmanliness

music alchemist said:


> I think the GameShark CDs don't let you program your own cheat codes, though.
> 
> Like 10 or 12. haha. Basically how it works is you look at how the code changes every time something in the game changes, and then once you've got the pattern locked down, you manipulate the code a certain way, and then the cheat you created works all the time!


 
  
 What a wise kiddo. lol.
  
 Does your game hang sometimes when you have too much cheats? Or you will know if  your codes are wrong 'cause the game freezes right?


----------



## Music Alchemist

artofmanliness said:


> Does your game hang sometimes when you have too much cheats? Or you will know if  your codes are wrong 'cause the game freezes right?


 
  
 I don't remember games ever hanging or freezing. If a code doesn't work, it just won't have any effect.


----------



## Rhamnetin

PS1 and N64 emulators actually work perfectly for practically every game.  ePSXe (the best PS1 emulator) can even read your PS1 CDs so nothing illegal there.  Every game I've tried on both worked flawlessly, and you get the benefits of higher resolution, newer input devices (old controllers are yucky), completely customizable controls, etc.  These emulators basically have a built-in gameshark as well.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> PS1 and N64 emulators actually work perfectly for practically every game.  ePSXe (the best PS1 emulator) can even read your PS1 CDs so nothing illegal there.  Every game I've tried on both worked flawlessly, and you get the benefits of higher resolution, newer input devices (old controllers are yucky), completely customizable controls, etc.  These emulators basically have a built-in gameshark as well.


 
  
 Yeah, I'm familiar with those. Didn't know they had GameShark (or something similar) built-in, but it's not surprising. Maybe they have features like the GameShark Pro that let you create you own codes!
  
 Do you know if a normal CD drive can read game data on the PS1 discs?


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> Yeah, I'm familiar with those. Didn't know they had GameShark (or something similar) built-in, but it's not surprising. Maybe they have features like the GameShark Pro that let you create you own codes!
> 
> Do you know if a normal CD drive can read game data on the PS1 discs?


 
  
 Yeah even blu-ray drives seem to work with CDs.  I think I was using a blu-ray drive the last time I was playing PS1 games on my PC.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> Yeah even blu-ray drives seem to work with CDs.  I think I was using a blu-ray drive the last time I was playing PS1 games on my PC.


 
  
 Did you confirm that they work with a basic CD drive, though?


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> Did you confirm that they work with a basic CD drive, though?


 
  
 No, I only confirmed that PS1's CDs work in modern blu-ray drives, but if they work in that then they should work in anything older.  I wager whatever you have will read PS1 disks.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> No, I only confirmed that PS1's CDs work in modern blu-ray drives, but if they work in that then they should work in anything older.  I wager whatever you have will read PS1 disks.


 
  
 Another interesting thing: when I was a kid, I put PS1 discs in CD players, and some of them let you play secret audio tracks!
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_games_with_CD_audio_tracks
  
 I'd like to convert the data on a PS1 memory card to digital file format to use it on PCs and newer consoles. I got a memory card from eBay with amazing save files and cheats for Final Fantasy VII that aren't normally possible in the game, such as playing with Aeris (after she dies) and Sephiroth in your party.
  
 If anyone knows of ways to do that, share here! I think I researched it awhile ago, but forgot the details.


----------



## sgttaco806

I started out on the nintendo systems but switched to xbox when online multiplayer really became a thing.  I think Delta Force Black Hawk Down was my first online multiplayer game?  Definitely the first I remember.  Switched to PC gaminga couple years ago and honestly dont think I could go back.  You have so many options compared to consoles.  System specs, gaming controls, websites you buy from etc.  I still use controllers for certain games, like third person adventure games and racing games.  The only reason I would ever switch back would be to play with some old friends I couldnt quite convince to come to the dark side.


----------



## v4lve

Started off with console but moved to PC for a MMO (Planetside 1 lol) and haven't really gone back. I do still like driving games on console and ARK is pretty fun even if it runs like crap on console.


----------



## Rhamnetin

v4lve said:


> Started off with console but moved to PC for a MMO (Planetside 1 lol) and haven't really gone back. I do still like driving games on console and ARK is pretty fun even if it runs like crap on console.


 
  
 ARK runs like crap on any PC too, although it has extensive mod support on PC so that's the main thing you're missing out on.


----------



## MikePio

music alchemist said:


> Yeah, I'm familiar with those. Didn't know they had GameShark (or something similar) built-in, but it's not surprising. Maybe they have features like the GameShark Pro that let you create you own codes!
> 
> Do you know if a normal CD drive can read game data on the PS1 discs?


 
  
 Anybody use the PS1 as a cd player? Actually was really surprised by the sound!  Here is a cool pic! 
  

  
 Here is the original 
  

  
 Madness I tell you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 PC audio got nothing on this!


----------



## artofmanliness

mikepio said:


> Anybody use the PS1 as a cd player? Actually was really surprised by the sound!  Here is a cool pic!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Bro, I've heard about this. And I'm super hyped about it. But the sad thing is, I left my PS1 back home. Haha.
  
 Nice set up though on your PS1. Will that be upgradable? Like putting some tubes?


----------



## Music Alchemist

mikepio said:


> Anybody use the PS1 as a cd player? Actually was really surprised by the sound!  Here is a cool pic!
> 
> Here is the original
> 
> ...


 
  
 I used to use the original PS1 as a casual CD player, but only from crappy TV speakers back in the day. I doubt it could compete with a good DAC...and yes, I have read the rumors about it being better than CD players that cost thousands or whatever.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's like audio components of back in the day. Stuff just had higher quality internals compared to today, where you have to pay a LOT to get similar quality.


----------



## MikePio

artofmanliness said:


> Bro, I've heard about this. And I'm super hyped about it. But the sad thing is, I left my PS1 back home. Haha.
> 
> Nice set up though on your PS1. Will that be upgradable? Like putting some tubes?


 
  
 I actually cannot find my PS1 anymore! It must be in some storage box over here... Those pictures are from google! But I wouldn't mind having the one at the top, it looks amazing! Putting tubes in something like that is way outside of my technical expertise but who knows, it might sound pretty damn good. 
   
 Quote:


music alchemist said:


> I used to use the original PS1 as a casual CD player, but only from crappy TV speakers back in the day. I doubt it could compete with a good DAC...and yes, I have read the rumors about it being better than CD players that cost thousands or whatever.


 
  
 In all honesty my Marantz CD player would rip the Sony apart but the PS1 actually sounds pretty decent. I think lots of people like it because it has a more "analog" sound but I found it was lacking dynamics and resolution. Ultimately, you are right, I doubt it could compete even with something like the JDS ODAC I have connected to my laptop, but as a fun player and project it does really well. 
   
 Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> It's like audio components of back in the day. Stuff just had higher quality internals compared to today, where you have to pay a LOT to get similar quality.


 
  
 That is a good point. I have an obsession with antique stores (especially photography and old electronics) and sometimes you can find real gems that are of superior quality. These days seems like you have to pay premium for those kinds of products and even then you have to double check where it was manufactured.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Well, this is an interesting development. Killer Instinct has now been released on Windows 10 in addition to Xbox One. I'm in love with the soundtrack.


----------



## Watchman323

That's a pretty ps1. My first console is xbox. Secnd one xbox 360. Third is wii. Fourth ps3 and now ps 4. I always enjoyed pc more than console games.


----------



## DrumsFillo

Pc and Xbox gamer

 I'm in love with the Halo series
 Console only to have fun together with friends


----------



## Yethal

Console gamer here for most of my digital life.
  
 Maybe I'll return to PC gaming once SteamOS becomes usable or Windows stops being cancer.


----------



## SonX

I'm a little bit of both. I use my PC for alot of things, but tons of games I play are niche and are console exclusives.


----------



## Rhamnetin

yethal said:


> Console gamer here for most of my digital life.
> 
> Maybe I'll return to PC gaming once SteamOS becomes usable or Windows stops being cancer.


 
  
 I think SteamOS is dead and you may have to go with another Linux distro.  Lots of great games support Linux, but even more do not...


----------



## Yethal

rhamnetin said:


> I think SteamOS is dead and you may have to go with another Linux distro.  Lots of great games support Linux, but even more do not...



If somebody ever created an OS that booted straight into Steam/Origin and supported Windows games I'd be all over that. Something that combines the consistency and convenience of console experience with PC upgradeability. Until that happens I'll stick with my PS4. Currently there's far too few games that run natively on Linux to consider it a viable platform.


----------



## Rhamnetin

yethal said:


> If somebody ever created an OS that booted straight into Steam/Origin and supported Windows games I'd be all over that. Something that combines the consistency and convenience of console experience with PC upgradeability. Until that happens I'll stick with my PS4. Currently there's far too few games that run natively on Linux to consider it a viable platform.


 
  
 Just use Windows 7 and Steam auto sign in and use Steam Big Picture mode, which is a console like UI designed for TV + couch + controller setups.  I very recently built a PC for my brother who was a console gamer, and it's set up in the living room like this (except he uses mouse and keyboard).


----------



## Yethal

rhamnetin said:


> Just use Windows 7 and Steam auto sign in and use Steam Big Picture mode, which is a console like UI designed for TV + couch + controller setups.  I very recently built a PC for my brother who was a console gamer, and it's set up in the living room like this (except he uses mouse and keyboard).


 

 That would still require me to run Windows and that's the #1 thing I want to avoid. Thx for the suggestion though.


----------



## Rhamnetin

yethal said:


> That would still require me to run Windows and that's the #1 thing I want to avoid. Thx for the suggestion though.


 
  
 What issues do you have with Windows 7?


----------



## Yethal

rhamnetin said:


> What issues do you have with Windows 7?


 

 It's bloated, much slower than linux running on the same hardware, and cannot be customized as much as I'd need. In fact the performance difference is so big that (on the same hardware) its faster to boot the dedicated internet VM and launch Firefox inside it than it is to launch firefox running natively under Windows.
  
 I'd like Windows to be more modular and to allow users to not install components unneeded for their particular workflow. As of now to create a dedicated gaming OS one needs to cut down unneeded features from the installation .iso, then install Windows fresh (and hope it doesn't crash during the process) and then watch for surprise Windows update that will bring all those features back against user's will. I tried to do that once and Windows ended up installing all unnecessary stuff anyway.
  
 A minimalistic, gaming-oriented Windows that doesn't have all the bloat preinstalled. That's what I want to see.


----------



## Music Alchemist

yethal said:


> It's bloated, much slower than linux running on the same hardware, and cannot be customized as much as I'd need. In fact the performance difference is so big that (on the same hardware) its faster to boot the dedicated internet VM and launch Firefox inside it than it is to launch firefox running natively under Windows.
> 
> I'd like Windows to be more modular and to allow users to not install components unneeded for their particular workflow. As of now to create a dedicated gaming OS one needs to cut down unneeded features from the installation .iso, then install Windows fresh (and hope it doesn't crash during the process) and then watch for surprise Windows update that will bring all those features back against user's will. I tried to do that once and Windows ended up installing all unnecessary stuff anyway.
> 
> A minimalistic, gaming-oriented Windows that doesn't have all the bloat preinstalled. That's what I want to see.


 
  
 Those are very good points. The main reason I don't use other operating systems is because I'm not used to them and it seems like there's a learning curve, plus some programs (and even games) are not compatible with them. But Windows has so many problems, there's no doubt about that. I'm planning on getting a dedicated music server and network player sooner or later to remove my audio system from my computers.


----------



## Yethal

music alchemist said:


> Those are very good points. The main reason I don't use other operating systems is because I'm not used to them and it seems like there's a learning curve, plus some programs (and even games) are not compatible with them. But Windows has so many problems, there's no doubt about that. I'm planning on getting a dedicated music server and network player sooner or later to remove my audio system from my computers.


 

 Try using Linux for music playback. One of the weirdest discoveries I made is that music sounds better on Linux. Same dac, same files but on Linux it sounds fuller and livelier, no idea why. If You're going the network player route, try using Raspberry Pi. It costs like 35$ and there is a thread here somewhere about how great this little thing is for music playback.


----------



## Music Alchemist

yethal said:


> Try using Linux for music playback. One of the weirdest discoveries I made is that music sounds better on Linux. Same dac, same files but on Linux it sounds fuller and livelier, no idea why. If You're going the network player route, try using Raspberry Pi. It costs like 35$ and there is a thread here somewhere about how great this little thing is for music playback.


 
  
 Oh, I was talking about heavy-duty stuff like this for the best sound quality:
  
 http://www.microrendu.sonore.us
 https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/audio-server/products/sonictransporter-i5
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/787020/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box/315#post_12575069
  
 (That last link talks about it beating something that's over $17,000!)
  
 I wouldn't even bother with those until after getting a really nice DAC. Until then, I should be just fine with my laptop and special software I use.
  
 ...Then again, for just $35, I might try what you suggested! Got any tutorials for it?
  
 I found this one: https://pimylifeup.com/raspberry-pi-music-player/


----------



## Yethal

music alchemist said:


> Oh, I was talking about heavy-duty stuff like this for the best sound quality:
> 
> http://www.microrendu.sonore.us
> https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/audio-server/products/sonictransporter-i5
> ...


 

 Try using Volumio. It can use both directly-attached storage and a NAS, can be controlled via any device on local network and can run 100% headless.
 https://volumio.org/get-started/
 As for the hardware, You may want to try the Digi+ board. It's a RPi add-on board that adds S/PDIF output
 https://www.hifiberry.com/digiplus/


----------



## akg fanboy

yethal said:


> It's bloated, much slower than linux running on the same hardware, and cannot be customized as much as I'd need. In fact the performance difference is so big that (on the same hardware) its faster to boot the dedicated internet VM and launch Firefox inside it than it is to launch firefox running natively under Windows.



I think I smell fire from my computer from the amount of burning in your post. +1


----------



## Music Alchemist

I mentioned virtual RAM drives here two months ago. Anyone looking to improve the performance of Windows for free should check 'em out! Loading programs and files into memory this way can sometimes make a big difference.
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_drive
 https://www.softperfect.com/products/ramdisk/


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> I mentioned virtual RAM drives here two months ago. Anyone looking to improve the performance of Windows for free should check 'em out! Loading programs and files into memory this way can sometimes make a big difference.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_drive
> https://www.softperfect.com/products/ramdisk/




Real world performance of ram drives are little to none as long as you have a decent SSD. Very few programs would benefit from them. The value proposition of a ram drive is also very low per $/GB. People who cannot afford an SSD are likely to be low on ram as well


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> Real world performance of ram drives are little to none as long as you have a decent SSD. Very few programs would benefit from them


 
  
 I only have an HDD and the RAM drives make a night and day difference for some things on my gaming laptop. My music player emulates high-end DACs and is processor-intensive. Without the RAM drives, the audio stutters like crazy sometimes; with the RAM drives, everything functions flawlessly. They help with HD videos too. Without the RAM drives, my computer will eventually overheat and shut off, or the videos can be glitchy; with the RAM drives, this rarely happens. They'd help with gaming too, but I'm not much of a PC gamer. (hehe) They also make pretty much anything load faster.


----------



## Yethal

music alchemist said:


> I only have an HDD and the RAM drives make a night and day difference for some things on my gaming laptop. My music player emulates high-end DACs and is processor-intensive. Without the RAM drives, the audio stutters like crazy sometimes; with the RAM drives, everything functions flawlessly. They help with HD videos too. Without the RAM drives, my computer will eventually overheat and shut off, or the videos can be glitchy; with the RAM drives, this rarely happens. They'd help with gaming too, but I'm not much of a PC gamer. (hehe) They also make pretty much anything load faster.


 

 Check if the laptop has an M.2 slot. I recently bought a new PC with an M.2 SSD and the difference between that and my old 5400RPM HDD is like going from a racing horse to a Bugatti. As for the RAM drives they don't offer much of a performance improvement in games but they do cut down on loading times (especially if the RAM drive is big enough to hold the entirety of game's assets). I remember one audio software vendor claiming that playing music from a RAM drive improves sound quality but that's gotta be snake oil.


----------



## Music Alchemist

yethal said:


> I remember one audio software vendor claiming that playing music from a RAM drive improves sound quality but that's gotta be snake oil.


 
  
 Yeah, it doesn't sound any different than without the RAM drives, but not having to deal with stuttering sure is nice.


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> I only have an HDD and the RAM drives make a night and day difference for some things on my gaming laptop. My music player emulates high-end DACs and is processor-intensive. Without the RAM drives, the audio stutters like crazy sometimes; with the RAM drives, everything functions flawlessly. They help with HD videos too. Without the RAM drives, my computer will eventually overheat and shut off, or the videos can be glitchy; with the RAM drives, this rarely happens. They'd help with gaming too, but I'm not much of a PC gamer. (hehe) They also make pretty much anything load faster.




What music player emulates a high end DAC?  
I can see a ram drive benefitting hard drive laptop users who don't have any additional slots for storage but that's about it. I recommend selling your alienware and building a good $500-600 custom PC with 65w i5, decent graphics card (gtx 1050/rx470), 16gb ram, and a 500gb ssd. Your PC would be blazing then


----------



## akg fanboy

yethal said:


> Check if the laptop has an M.2 slot. I recently bought a new PC with an M.2 SSD and the difference between that and my old 5400RPM HDD is like going from a racing horse to a Bugatti. As for the RAM drives they don't offer much of a performance improvement in games but they do cut down on loading times (especially if the RAM drive is big enough to hold the entirety of game's assets). I remember one audio software vendor claiming that playing music from a RAM drive improves sound quality but that's gotta be snake oil.




You reminded me of an old ram stick that was supposedly "audiophile ram", it was some pretty hilarious snake oil. Unfortunately I don't have the picture anymore


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> What music player emulates a high end DAC?
> I can see a ram drive benefitting hard drive laptop users who don't have any additional slots for storage but that's about it. I recommend selling your alienware and building a good $500-600 custom PC with 65w i5, decent graphics card (gtx 1050/rx470), 16gb ram, and a 500gb ssd. Your PC would be blazing then


 
  
Signalyst HQPlayer Desktop.
  
 Some say it makes $500 DACs sound like $5,000 ones, but I dunno. I only use it with the onboard DAC of my computer at the moment, which sounds the same to me as the Schiit Modi 2 and better than the Creative Sound Blaster E1.
  
 As I mentioned in prior posts, I'll get around to building a custom desktop PC sooner or later...but probably not soon. FYI, my laptop has Windows 10 Home 64-bit, an Intel Core i7-640UM 1.2 GHz quad-core processor, and 8 GB RAM.


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> Signalyst HQPlayer Desktop.
> 
> Some say it makes $500 DACs sound like $5,000 ones, but I dunno. I only use it with the onboard DAC of my computer at the moment, which sounds the same to me as the Schiit Modi 2 and better than the Creative Sound Blaster E1.
> 
> As I mentioned in prior posts, I'll get around to building a custom desktop PC sooner or later...but probably not soon. FYI, my laptop has Windows 10 Home 64-bit, an Intel Core i7-640UM 1.2 GHz quad-core processor, and 8 GB RAM.




I will try it soon and see if it has any difference. It seems to do everything sony says they do in their xperia phone music players.
And money problems... I feel you


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> I will try it soon and see if it has any difference. It seems to do everything sony says they do in their xperia phone music players.


 
  
 Yeah, there's a trial. Just mess with the settings. There are a ton. It's sort of like being able to switch between DACs without having to buy them. But be warned: the interface is unbelievably bad. The manual is worth reading. Gives you a better technical grasp of what it does as well.


----------



## Yethal

music alchemist said:


> Signalyst HQPlayer Desktop.
> 
> Some say it makes $500 DACs sound like $5,000 ones, but I dunno. I only use it with the onboard DAC of my computer at the moment, which sounds the same to me as the Schiit Modi 2 and better than the Creative Sound Blaster E1.
> 
> As I mentioned in prior posts, I'll get around to building a custom desktop PC sooner or later...but probably not soon. FYI, my laptop has Windows 10 Home 64-bit, an Intel Core i7-640UM 1.2 GHz quad-core processor, and 8 GB RAM.


 

 If You don't use any Windows-only apps, a lightweight Linux distro and Amarok/Tomahawk music player might be all You need.
  
 EDIT: I've just noticed that Sygnalyst has a Linux client. Transition would be even easier.


----------



## Music Alchemist

yethal said:


> If You don't use any Windows-only apps, a lightweight Linux distro and Amarok/Tomahawk music player might be all You need.
> 
> EDIT: I've just noticed that Sygnalyst has a Linux client. Transition would be even easier.


 
  
 I want the best sound quality regardless of cost. That thread I linked to goes into detail about stuff like that. I would probably stop using HQPlayer (which does DSP) once I upgrade to the Chord DAVE or perhaps even as early as the Mojo, depending on how things sound. But ultimately I plan on using Roon as my player.


----------



## Gwen

PC works best for me. I do online school and my hobbies are after effects, graphic design, and digital art so I can really just have a massively powerful PC and build my life around that. Games are distractions, so whenever I'm stressed out and I can start search a game and take a break with something.


----------



## Audix

PC gamer because teh games are cheaper


----------



## eyepauls

Was a PC gamer up until about 2006, then stuck with consoles.
 I sit in front of PC for most of the working day, not keen to add extra hours to such a task - besides while I agree that PC gaming is "cheaper" in the sense of a huge backlog of games, you still have the significant initial outlay for a rig.
  
 The recent console announcements have put me off slightly as I feel the lifecycle of consoles is getting shorter and shorter, as well as the difference between current & next-gen being minimal - but its not enough to have me buying a PC anytime soon


----------



## Rhamnetin

eyepauls said:


> Was a PC gamer up until about 2006, then stuck with consoles.
> I sit in front of PC for most of the working day, not keen to add extra hours to such a task - besides while I agree that PC gaming is "cheaper" in the sense of a huge backlog of games, you still have the significant initial outlay for a rig.


 
  
 If that were the case for me I'd build a couch gaming PC setup and get all the benefits of PC and PC games and mods.


----------



## saturnotaku

I gamed pretty much exclusively on the PC from the Commodore 64 era through 2001. From 2002 through maybe about 2012 I used consoles more but still always had a top-flight gaming PC. From 2012 to now, I'm back to basically PC exclusivity. My PS3 is now the family DVD player and streaming device and I have no interest in the PS4 or Xbox One as I now have a gaming laptop that I can easily hook up to my TV.


----------



## Music Alchemist

I think one reason many people (including myself) have favored consoles is that they are so much simpler to set up. You get a prepackaged system, hook it up, and play. PC gaming requires far more knowledge and preparation, and PC gamers tend to be a lot more educated on technical stuff. Despite all the convincing arguments for the superiority of PC gaming, I still lean towards console gaming (though I haven't gamed in awhile) because it's so simple and I've done it my entire life. But if I were to be objective (who can, really?), I'd submit to my PC overlords. lol


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> I think one reason many people (including myself) have favored consoles is that they are so much simpler to set up. You get a prepackaged system, hook it up, and play. PC gaming requires far more knowledge and preparation, and PC gamers tend to be a lot more educated on technical stuff. Despite all the convincing arguments for the superiority of PC gaming, I still lean towards console gaming (though I haven't gamed in awhile) because it's so simple and I've done it my entire life. But if I were to be objective (who can, really?), I'd submit to my PC overlords. lol




Is installing steam and clicking install after purchasing a game really that much harder than console gaming?


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> Is installing steam and clicking install after purchasing a game really that much harder than console gaming?


 
  
 I meant building PC systems and all the technical stuff you guys talk about. That's much more complex than buying a console, which is generally only one configuration instead of limitless configurations like PCs can be. Heck, I don't even know how to use a PS3/PS4 controller for PC games yet. (I know it can be done; just haven't looked into it much; will when the time comes.)


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> I meant building PC systems and all the technical stuff you guys talk about. That's much more complex than buying a console, which is generally only one configuration instead of limitless configurations like PCs can be. Heck, I don't even know how to use a PS3/PS4 controller for PC games yet. (I know it can be done; just haven't looked into it much; will when the time comes.)




I will agree that all the different branded parts of the same thing and "gamer" branded parts make it cluttered and somewhat confusing for newcomers. But actually building it once you find out what you want is relatively simple


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> I will agree that all the different branded parts of the same thing and "gamer" branded parts make it cluttered and somewhat confusing for newcomers. But actually building it once you find out what you want is relatively simple


 
  
 I mean, it's not rocket science or anything; it's just that I know next to nothing about building custom PCs. I already made the mistake of paying far more than I needed to for a gaming laptop that ended up being overpriced and having countless problems. Next time I want to do things right, and that will take some research. Basically what I'm saying here is that buying a console requires next to no research, besides deciding which one you want based on games, features, etc.
  
 By the way, did you just recently get the HD 800? I would like to equalize it if/when I get one.
  
 (Although I enjoy it most of the time, it's unbearable for me with maybe ten or twenty percent of music. When I heard it, I didn't understand what was going on, but looking at the measurements [mislabeled graph], I see that it's likely due to the dip in the mids causing an imbalance instead of the treble peak itself, which is relatively mild.)


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> I mean, it's not rocket science or anything; it's just that I know next to nothing about building custom PCs. I already made the mistake of paying far more than I needed to for a gaming laptop that ended up being overpriced and having countless problems. Next time I want to do things right, and that will take some research. Basically what I'm saying here is that buying a console requires next to no research, besides deciding which one you want based on games, features, etc.
> 
> By the way, did you just recently get the HD 800? I would like to equalize it if/when I get one.
> 
> (Although I enjoy it most of the time, it's unbearable for me with maybe ten or twenty percent of music. When I heard it, I didn't understand what was going on, but looking at the measurements [mislabeled graph], I see that it's likely due to the dip in the mids causing an imbalance instead of the treble peak itself, which is relatively mild.)




Yes, the console is for those who don't want to research and just play some games lol. It works great for people who aren't very interested in technology.

Yes I got an hd800 and I love it. Still figuring out what kind of sound I want from EQing it. The hd700 was pretty simple because all I had to do was fix the dip and now it sounds amazing, but the hd800 doesn't respond to EQ as well as I had hoped. Going to tinker around more and make multiple EQ variations to see what works best. I thought it was very bright and fatiguing at first but I got used to it


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> Yes, the console is for those who don't want to research and just play some games lol. It works great for people who aren't very interested in technology.
> 
> Yes I got an hd800 and I love it. Still figuring out what kind of sound I want from EQing it. The hd700 was pretty simple because all I had to do was fix the dip and now it sounds amazing, but the hd800 doesn't respond to EQ as well as I had hoped. Going to tinker around more and make multiple EQ variations to see what works best. I thought it was very bright and fatiguing at first but I got used to it


 
  
 Yeah, I had an HD 700. Loved the look and feel so much that I really miss it now, unlike most headphones I have owned. But I'm pretty particular about frequency response, so I'd have to spend a lot of time equalizing that one. Click below to see what I mean. I also included measurements for my neutral reference below it so you can see what my general target is.
  
 http://cdn.head-fi.org/d/da/dad0aff3_HD700measurements.png
 http://cdn.head-fi.org/6/6d/6de6f4f3_STAX_SR-207_EP-507_SB2217.png
  
 As for EQ for the HD 800, I know lots of people like the Sonarworks software. It's not free, but is a convenient way of having the work done for you...though it only gets you to someone else's target instead of your own, the latter of which would obviously require much more effort.


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> Yeah, I had an HD 700. Loved the look and feel so much that I really miss it now, unlike most headphones I have owned. But I'm pretty particular about frequency response, so I'd have to spend a lot of time equalizing that one. Click below to see what I mean. I also included measurements for my neutral reference below it so you can see what my general target is.
> 
> http://cdn.head-fi.org/d/da/dad0aff3_HD700measurements.png
> http://cdn.head-fi.org/6/6d/6de6f4f3_STAX_SR-207_EP-507_SB2217.png
> ...




Everyone complains about the treble spikes on the hd700 but it didn't bother me really, it didn't feel as bright as the T1 (T1 treble spikes don't bother me much either). So I only EQed the dips in the mids and upper mids. Electric guitars and vocals sounded much more in line with the rest of the track and much more natural in tonality. My target is usually just neutral but with slight mids and upper mids boost (2-4khz). Although it seems I'm a treble head, I actually don't add more treble to headphones with neutral treble responses like the hm5. The design and comfort of the hd700 is truly fantastic 

I will try the sonarworks if I can get a free trial


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> I will try the sonarworks if I can get a free trial


 
  
 Here's a brief tutorial of mine in case it helps:
  


music alchemist said:


> Download and install the free trial of Sonarworks Reference 3 Headphone. (Or purchase it.)
> 
> Download and install this VST adapter in foobar2000.
> 
> ...


----------



## saturnotaku

music alchemist said:


> I meant building PC systems and all the technical stuff you guys talk about. That's much more complex than buying a console, which is generally only one configuration instead of limitless configurations like PCs can be. Heck, I don't even know how to use a PS3/PS4 controller for PC games yet. (I know it can be done; just haven't looked into it much; will when the time comes.)


 
  
 You can actually buy some pretty good pre-built desktop PCs at fairly reasonable prices now. It's a slightly older video, but the system isn't half bad.


----------



## Music Alchemist

saturnotaku said:


> You can actually buy some pretty good pre-built desktop PCs at fairly reasonable prices now. It's a slightly older video, but the system isn't half bad.


 
  
 I know, but the only computer upgrade I have planned is a top-of-the-line custom PC, and no time soon since I am not currently a PC gamer.


----------



## mashuto

music alchemist said:


> I think one reason many people (including myself) have favored consoles is that they are so much simpler to set up. You get a prepackaged system, hook it up, and play. PC gaming requires far more knowledge and preparation, and PC gamers tend to be a lot more educated on technical stuff. Despite all the convincing arguments for the superiority of PC gaming, I still lean towards console gaming (though I haven't gamed in awhile) because it's so simple and I've done it my entire life. But if I were to be objective (who can, really?), I'd submit to my PC overlords. lol


 

 This is true to a degree. A console certainly is easier. And I know for me personally, I have been building and assembling PC's as a hobby now for easily close to 20 years. However, it is a lot simpler than most think. You just need to learn about what the main components of a computer are and then sort of put it all together (or buy pre-assembled gaming PC's which there are a lot of now). The biggest thing I learned early on about building and assembling PC's is that if you can plug something in somewhere, thats mostly likely where it goes.
  
 I dont begrudge anyone for choosing console, its just that the ease of use argument is nowhere near enough for me personally to choose it as a primary gaming platform (especially because mouse and keyboard is far superior to a controller! at least for fps games).


----------



## Music Alchemist

mashuto said:


> This is true to a degree. A console certainly is easier. And I know for me personally, I have been building and assembling PC's as a hobby now for easily close to 20 years. However, it is a lot simpler than most think. You just need to learn about what the main components of a computer are and then sort of put it all together (or buy pre-assembled gaming PC's which there are a lot of now). The biggest thing I learned early on about building and assembling PC's is that if you can plug something in somewhere, thats mostly likely where it goes.
> 
> I dont begrudge anyone for choosing console, its just that the ease of use argument is nowhere near enough for me personally to choose it as a primary gaming platform (especially because mouse and keyboard is far superior to a controller! at least for fps games).


 
  
 I bet once I learn the basics, building a custom PC won't be an issue at all. It's just not something I plan on doing until later.
  
 I can't stand using a mouse and keyboard for gaming. Incidentally, I don't like FPS games much either.


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> I bet once I learn the basics, building a custom PC won't be an issue at all. It's just not something I plan on doing until later.
> 
> I can't stand using a mouse and keyboard for gaming. Incidentally, I don't like FPS games much either.


 
  
 Mouse and keyboard is beneficial for most kinds of games, just not for racing (wheel master race), flying (joystick master race), most sports games (controller), and probably not fighting games (like Street Fighter) either.  Strategy games and many RPGs (I'm guessing JRPGs are designed around controllers though because they are often meant for PlayStation) benefit from the added functionality of mouse and keyboard, as do more complex survival games and stealth games.  The bulk of what I play are wRPGs and I couldn't live without mouse and keyboard.
  
 But yeah building a PC is super easy.  Watch some YouTube videos of it when the time comes and give it a whirl. Building really nice looking, silent PCs can be fun and extremely rewarding.  Mine is getting a makeover very soon.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> Mouse and keyboard is beneficial for most kinds of games, just not for racing (wheel master race), flying (joystick master race), most sports games (controller), and probably not fighting games (like Street Fighter) either.  Strategy games and many RPGs (I'm guessing JRPGs are designed around controllers though because they are often meant for PlayStation) benefit from the added functionality of mouse and keyboard, as do more complex survival games and stealth games.  The bulk of what I play are wRPGs and I couldn't live without mouse and keyboard.
> 
> But yeah building a PC is super easy.  Watch some YouTube videos of it when the time comes and give it a whirl. Building really nice looking, silent PCs can be fun and extremely rewarding.  Mine is getting a makeover very soon.


 
  
 JRPGs are by far my favorite genre, so yeah. Plus I'm just used to using a controller with all types of console games. I tried emulators and some of them were pretty hard to play with a keyboard. lol. I'm sure I'll reap the benefits of keyboards once I enter the glamorous world of PC gaming. (Is there a single word for that?)


----------



## FallenAngel

Only a PC gamer for decades.


----------



## Energy

PC Gamer here. Been building computers since I was in early high school and now well past college.
  
 Only thing I play now is Counter Strike Global Offensive and any game that's graphic intensive.
 It's always a young boys dream to see how far he can push his graphics card _(GTX 1080)_.


----------



## gcarl88

I'm a PC gamer mostly, but as Madden isn't available on PC, I do have an XBOX One. Saw that Gears of Wars 4 has introduced cross-compatibility on PC and XBox One. Pretty cool. I'm sure it won't be long until most of the big titles on the platforms merge.


----------



## TwirlyWhirly555

Console is my main platform , PC now and then .


----------



## Rhamnetin

I just rebuilt my PC in a new case with a CPU cooler (EK Predator 240) with NZXT Hue+ lighting, so I figured I might as well share it here.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  

  
  

  
 It's so quiet that it's hard to tell if it's on if you're just going by sound.  Also everything shown (case lighting, motherboard lighting, mouse and keyboard) are all equipped with RGB LEDs not just blue.


----------



## jmikev25

I started out gaming on the Sega Genisis but after getting my first computer, a Packard Bell, and discovering Wolfenstein and Doom I became primarily a PC gamer. I've always played both but I prefer PC games for mods, being able to run visuals at higher settings, and a preference for keyboard and mouse over controllers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I flip flop from console to PC and back. Currently back to console due to many exclusives recently releasing. Well, that, and my laptop no longer getting playable temps. Last time I tried, the readings were going to 103 Celsius. She's getting old. That scared me enough to hold off on PC gaming until I get a desktop rig. Basically just waiting on Kaby Lake and 1080TI. 





rhamnetin said:


> I just rebuilt my PC in a new case with a CPU cooler (EK Predator 240) with NZXT Hue+ lighting, so I figured I might as well share it here.




I really like the aesthetics of the Phanteks Evolv (ATX and ITX).I wanted to build on the ITX, but I I didn't like the temps temp a posted everywhere online due to to the GPU not breathing for crap unless you get a hybrid which I didn't want at the time.

That Evolv ATX TG looks lovely. I just personally want smaller, if not, I'd have look for one of those (non-TG).


----------



## Music Alchemist

mad lust envy said:


> I flip flop from console to PC and back. Currently back to console due to many exclusives recently releasing. Well, that, and my laptop no longer getting playable temps. Last time I tried, the readings were going to 103 Celsius. She's getting old. That scared me enough to hold off on PC gaming until I get a desktop rig. Basically just waiting on Kaby Lake and 1080TI.


 
  
 I'm surprised a gaming god like you didn't already have one!
  
 The fan of my laptop used to go crazy, and it would overheat rather easily at times...but at one point, it just stopped making noise altogether...which leads me to believe that it's simply been rendered inoperable...but ironically, my laptop rarely ever overheats now. Go figure.


----------



## Rhamnetin

mad lust envy said:


> I flip flop from console to PC and back. Currently back to console due to many exclusives recently releasing. Well, that, and my laptop no longer getting playable temps. Last time I tried, the readings were going to 103 Celsius. She's getting old. That scared me enough to hold off on PC gaming until I get a desktop rig. Basically just waiting on Kaby Lake and 1080TI.
> I really like the aesthetics of the Phanteks Evolv (ATX and ITX).I wanted to build on the ITX, but I I didn't like the temps temp a posted everywhere online due to to the GPU not breathing for crap unless you get a hybrid which I didn't want at the time.
> 
> That Evolv ATX TG looks lovely. I just personally want smaller, if not, I'd have look for one of those (non-TG).


 
  
 Yeah, sadly all of the best looking ITX cases are lacking in airflow.  I recently built a system in the Corsair Obsidian 250D which has outstanding functionality, ease of use, and airflow (I put a 200mm fan in the front).  That PC has a Gigabyte Z170 WiFi, i5 6500, and EVGA GTX 1060 SC.  
  

  

  
  
 I would suggest an SFX PSU for any ITX PC for the short cables, namely Corsair's SF series.


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> Well, that, and my laptop no longer getting playable temps. Last time I tried, the readings were going to 103 Celsius. She's getting old.




103C?! Jesus. Most CPU/GPU would thermal throttle or shutdown well before hitting that mark. Have you considered blowing dust out of the vents and re-pasting? Depending on the age of the machine, the thermal paste could be like dried cement by now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's a 2012 laptop with a lot of abuse. I'm sure the paste paste and all that is far from ideal.

TBH I was just waiting for it to die. It's had bad mobo warnings for a while now. Not really cost effective to fix.

I honestly don't wanna go with going into it to potentially fix it. I'm not a DIY kind of guy. I'd make things worse.

The temp reading might be a bad sensor. It fluctuates from 103 to high 80s in split seconds. Before, it would never go above like 90. This 103 thing is very recent.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mad lust envy said:


> I honestly don't wanna go with going into it to potentially fix it. I'm not a DIY kind of guy. I'd make things worse.


 
  
 Same here. Just gonna wait until I can upgrade.
  
 I'm also afraid to break into my external hard drive array that became slow. Still not sure what to do about that...it would probably take months to back up the data now.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/820106/external-hard-drive-array-is-a-hundred-times-slower-now


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> I'm not a DIY kind of guy.




Ah gotcha. So are you looking at a prebuilt for your next desktop?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

octiceps said:


> Ah gotcha. So are you looking at a prebuilt for your next desktop?




Ah, nah. I'm building my own. But building your own is almost all just plug and play. No solder or anything of the sort. I'd have gone into my system if it was a desktop. But laptops are much more of a chore with a billion tiny screws and weird heat pipes in the way, etc. Too much hassle for me. Laptop layouts are super confusing. I've been studying building a desktop for like a year now. Just been very, very patient.

I'm probably gonna use a Coolermaster Mastercase 3. It looks stupid simply to build in with great airflow.


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> Ah, nah. I'm building my own. But building your own is almost all just plug and play. No solder or anything of the sort. I'd have gone into my system if it was a desktop. But laptops are much more of a chore with a billion tiny screws and weird heat pipes in the way, etc. Too much hassle for me. Laptop layouts are super confusing. I've been studying building a desktop for like a year now. Just been very, very patient.
> 
> I'm probably gonna use a Coolermaster Mastercase 3. It looks stupid simply to build in with great airflow.




Oh I assumed you didn't like to get hands-on at all considering the AW M17x R4 is ridiculously easy as far as laptops go, literally just a few screws to get the bottom cover and heatsinks off.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Speaking of cases, I want the Lian-Li PC-O10 for a second build (not sure what I'd do with it though).  An expert builder I know ranks it the second best all around case he has ever used (functionality/ease of use, build quality, cable management, looks/aesthetics) with the Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ATX Tempered Glass being his #1.
  
 http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-o10/
  
 Cases that look that good, are built that good, and have such good functionality/ease of use are extremely rare so I might buy one eventually just to have it.


----------



## illram

There are a handful of ITX cases with good air flow, they're just on the large side of the "small form factor" (SFF) niche. The Thermaltake V1 is probably my favorite and it is currently on sale. The Bitfenix Prodigy case has good reviews but it is basically a Micro ATX case by volume, not ITX, even though it is marketed as such, so it gets poo-pooed in the SFF community. If you go that large there are other options like the TJ08-E, which is old but still a great micro ATX case. Fractal Design also makes some good cases. I am a bit of an SFF fan, so I am biased and think there are very limited reasons to bother with a full ATX motherboard these days. 
  
 I love Lian Li's case designs (I have a Q11 in my living room right now with an old i5-2400 and 970) but there is always one or two annoying things wrong with their cases internally. My Q11, for instance, starves the CPU and GPU coolers for air due to lack of adequate ventilation. But they are very pretty.
  
 I am currently awaiting shipping on a custom kickstarter case, the Dan-A4. It's about as small as you can go with a case that can still fit a full size GPU, e.g. a Titan X or whatever is upcoming with the Ti. 
  
 As for consoles, I do play on both consoles (Xbox One) and PC. The console multiplayer crows tends to be larger for the multiplayer games I play, these days mostly COD, but basically everything else I play is on PC.


----------



## Rhamnetin

illram said:


> There are a handful of ITX cases with good air flow, they're just on the large side of the "small form factor" (SFF) niche. The Thermaltake V1 is probably my favorite and it is currently on sale. The Bitfenix Prodigy case has good reviews but it is basically a Micro ATX case by volume, not ITX, even though it is marketed as such, so it gets poo-pooed in the SFF community. If you go that large there are other options like the TJ08-E, which is old but still a great micro ATX case. Fractal Design also makes some good cases. I am a bit of an SFF fan, so I am biased and think there are very limited reasons to bother with a full ATX motherboard these days.
> 
> I love Lian Li's case designs (I have a Q11 in my living room right now with an old i5-2400 and 970) but there is always one or two annoying things wrong with their cases internally. My Q11, for instance, starves the CPU and GPU coolers for air due to lack of adequate ventilation. But they are very pretty.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know there are ITX cases with good airflow (like that Corsair Obsidian 250D I showed), but it seems none of the aluminum + tempered glass ones have good airflow.
  
 The Lian-Li PC-V2120, PC-X2000FN, and PC-O10 seem to have excellent interior designs, although I have no personal experience with any.  But I'm glad they finally have some competition and aren't the only ones making more mainstream high quality cases now, thanks to Phanteks and In Win (although In Win really needs to improve their internal designs).


----------



## artofmanliness

Guys! PS4 Slim 1TB here in UAE is only 980AED. If any of you have a chance to go here, buy 1. It's really cheap. And that's brand new.


----------



## moosefet

my dad was a programmer so I grew up playing on a PC and have always found console games to be lacking a certain depth that I get out of PC games. There are some console games I do enjoy a lot but I'm never totally satisfied as I can be with some PC games.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

illram said:


> I am currently awaiting shipping on a custom kickstarter case, the Dan-A4. It's about as small as you can go with a case that can still fit a full size GPU, e.g. a Titan X or whatever is upcoming with the Ti.




I was REALLY wanting that case myself, but the availability is so random. I would love it though. Just stick a nice i5/i7 with a 1080ti and call it a day. That or the Caselabs Bulletcase BH2 or BH4. But that too has sporadic availability.


----------



## Rhamnetin

moosefet said:


> my dad was a programmer so I grew up playing on a PC and have always found console games to be lacking a certain depth that I get out of PC games. There are some console games I do enjoy a lot but I'm never totally satisfied as I can be with some PC games.


 
  
 Yeah there's a lot of truth to that, and this dates back as far as the 1980s (PC had RPGs and strategy games back then). Lots of PC games have been designed around certain principles that add authenticity and depth, such as:
  

If it looks like you can get someplace, you can indeed go there.
More than one way to approach everything, more than one way to play the game.
Loads of physics interactions/effects, which significantly alter gameplay.
Meaningful exploration.
No overly detailed quest instructions.  You're told what to do, but not at all how to do it.  Figure it out on your own because there are usually multiple ways to tackle a quest.
  
 These are broad concepts I picked up in all kinds of PC games, that are very rarely used in console games.
  
 On a side note, I want to show a before/after for my PC.  My after is shown in *post #306*.  Before is shown below.  Quite the aesthetic upgrade!
  


Spoiler: Warning: Ugly PC below!


----------



## illram

mad lust envy said:


> I was REALLY wanting that case myself, but the availability is so random. I would love it though. Just stick a nice i5/i7 with a 1080ti and call it a day. That or the Caselabs Bulletcase BH2 or BH4. But that too has sporadic availability.


 
  
 The A4 should be released again via European resellers around February, if all goes according to plan.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> Yeah there's a lot of truth to that, and this dates back as far as the 1980s (PC had RPGs and strategy games back then). Lots of PC games have been designed around certain principles that add authenticity and depth, such as:
> 
> 
> If it looks like you can get someplace, you can indeed go there.
> ...


 
  
 I think those concepts are common enough in console games too, even if they're not as common.


----------



## Yethal

I built my current PC in a mini-ITX case (Lian-Li TU100) and I'm really happy with the size (the entire PC is about as big as my cat). The case can easily fit AIO water cooling and it has enough airflow to keep my CPU below 30 degrees Celsius on idle and below 50 on heavy load.If you need a small, easily-transportable case check it out.


----------



## Rhamnetin

yethal said:


> I built my current PC in a mini-ITX case (Lian-Li TU100) and I'm really happy with the size (the entire PC is about as big as my cat). The case can easily fit AIO water cooling and it has enough airflow to keep my CPU below 30 degrees Celsius on idle and below 50 on heavy load.If you need a small, easily-transportable case check it out.


 
  
 I was considering using that case for my brother's PC as well.  It's cute with that little handle on it.


----------



## WNBC

Console guy here (PS4).  Grew up with the Intellivision, Atari, 8-bit Nintendo, etc.  Most of my friends stuck with consoles so I did as well.  I do hear a lot of good things about PC games, but nowadays with kids I'm all about convenience.  Maybe if Destiny is brought to PC then I'll give it a shot   I'll have to read up on how VR is doing in the PC world.  A couple of my friends are already using it with PS4.


----------



## Yethal

rhamnetin said:


> I was considering using that case for my brother's PC as well.  It's cute with that little handle on it.



Cable management is a pain and parts must be carefully chosen so they fit inside but if small footprint is desired then this is a strong contender. Here's another comparison, this time with a fullsize atx PC.

As you can see, it's really tiny.


----------



## Music Alchemist

wnbc said:


> Console guy here (PS4).  Grew up with the Intellivision, Atari, 8-bit Nintendo, etc.  Most of my friends stuck with consoles so I did as well.  I do hear a lot of good things about PC games, but nowadays with kids I'm all about convenience.  Maybe if Destiny is brought to PC then I'll give it a shot   I'll have to read up on how VR is doing in the PC world.  A couple of my friends are already using it with PS4.


 
  
 Did you ever have any of the older PlayStation consoles? I had PS1, PS3, and Vita. The very limited backward compatibility of PS4 is disappointing. They have stated for years that they plan on making all PlayStation releases (new and old) playable in digital format on PS4 and Vita, but who knows when that will happen... I'm especially disgruntled about many downloadable PS3 games not being playable on PS4.


----------



## WNBC

I came over from XBOX360.  When Destiny came out, my friends made the switch to PS4 and eventually I did the same about a year later.  I would like to play Ninja Gaiden Black (my fav) on the PS4 and a lot of the OG Ninja Gaiden games aren't available as far as I know.
  
 Quote:


music alchemist said:


> Did you ever have any of the older PlayStation consoles? I had PS1, PS3, and Vita. The very limited backward compatibility of PS4 is disappointing. They have stated for years that they plan on making all PlayStation releases (new and old) playable in digital format on PS4 and Vita, but who knows when that will happen... I'm especially disgruntled about many downloadable PS3 games not being playable on PS4.


----------



## Music Alchemist

wnbc said:


> I came over from XBOX360.  When Destiny came out, my friends made the switch to PS4 and eventually I did the same about a year later.  I would like to play Ninja Gaiden Black (my fav) on the PS4 and a lot of the OG Ninja Gaiden games aren't available as far as I know.


 
  
 Oh man, you missed so many phenomenal PlayStation games. (I'm assuming you are at least familiar with the classic SNES games, so I won't rave about them.) Let me put it this way: I'm crazy about the older PS games (even some PS3 titles) and want to play them over and over, while I only have a slight interest in PS4 games.


----------



## WNBC

I missed out on those PS3 games.  We were doing a lot of Halo on Xbox back in the day since Microsoft had pretty good support for online gaming.
  
 I was hoping the mini NES would be a nice little treat over the holidays but wasn't able to grab one.  I am older so I grew up in the prime of Zelda, Super Mario Bros, Kid Icarus, Double Dragon, Punch Out, Ring King, Mega Man, Metroid, Metal Gear (Original), Kung Fu, etc.  Ha, we actually went to arcades back then too!  Gaming now is on a different level, but I have fond memories of the classics.  Our kids are young enough that they might actually like a Wii.  I just have to look into it. 
  
  
 Quote:


music alchemist said:


> Oh man, you missed so many phenomenal PlayStation games. (I'm assuming you are at least familiar with the classic SNES games, so I won't rave about them.) Let me put it this way: I'm crazy about the older PS games (even some PS3 titles) and want to play them over and over, while I only have a slight interest in PS4 games.


----------



## Rhamnetin

wnbc said:


> Console guy here (PS4).  Grew up with the Intellivision, Atari, 8-bit Nintendo, etc.  Most of my friends stuck with consoles so I did as well.  I do hear a lot of good things about PC games, but nowadays with kids I'm all about convenience.  Maybe if Destiny is brought to PC then I'll give it a shot   I'll have to read up on how VR is doing in the PC world.  A couple of my friends are already using it with PS4.


 
  
 There are of course more VR games on PC than on console, plus more than one headset to choose from.  But then HTC and Facebook/Oculus fight for exclusive games, VR will probably just be a rather short lived fad for this reason and numerous others.


----------



## hattrick15

I've always been a console gamer.  My first console was the Fairchild F.  That's very old school.  From there to Atari, Sega Genesis, Sega CD (okay that one didn't work out), 3DO (I worked there), PlayStation, PS2, PS3, PS4, XBOX, XBOX 360, and XBOX One.  PC always meant software not working as it should.  I like have games that work without tech support.


----------



## hattrick15

rhamnetin said:


> There are of course more VR games on PC than on console, plus more than one headset to choose from.  But then HTC and Facebook/Oculus fight for exclusive games, VR will probably just be a rather short lived fad for this reason and numerous others.


 
 It's going to take awhile before VR takes off.  Right now, must of the experiences feel like tech demos, not real games.  PC has the power to give you a better experience (HTC being the best), but Sony is going to sell more units because they are at a more friendly price.  Wait another 2 more years before there's decent VR games on a system that doesn't break the bank.  At least, that's my opinion.


----------



## Music Alchemist

hattrick15 said:


> I've always been a console gamer.  My first console was the Fairchild F.  That's very old school.  From there to Atari, Sega Genesis, Sega CD (okay that one didn't work out), 3DO (I worked there), PlayStation, PS2, PS3, PS4, XBOX, XBOX 360, and XBOX One.  PC always meant software not working as it should.  I like have games that work without tech support.


 
  
 Awesome. I bet we have many games in common.
  
 By the way, I saw you in the DAVE thread! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


hattrick15 said:


> It's going to take awhile before VR takes off.  Right now, must of the experiences feel like tech demos, not real games.  PC has the power to give you a better experience (HTC being the best), but Sony is going to sell more units because they are at a more friendly price.  Wait another 2 more years before there's decent VR games on a system that doesn't break the bank.  At least, that's my opinion.


 
  
 I remember playing a full-body VR game at some sort of science center as a kid. I hooked stuff up all over my body to play virtual basketball. I could see my entire body in third person view in the game. It was trippy.


----------



## hattrick15

music alchemist said:


> Awesome. I bet we have many games in common.
> 
> By the way, I saw you in the DAVE thread!
> 
> ...


 
 Yea, I like high end audio and video games!   The biggest problem with VR is that I've yet to meet anyone that can play it for more than about 15 minutes before they either get sick or just feel like they need a break.  I fall in the camp of getting sick very easily.


----------



## Music Alchemist

hattrick15 said:


> Yea, I like high end audio and video games!   The biggest problem with VR is that I've yet to meet anyone that can play it for more than about 15 minutes before they either get sick or just feel like they need a break.  I fall in the camp of getting sick very easily.


 
  
 haha. And now I'm thinking about playing Zelda games on Wii. So fun, but it tires your arms out.


----------



## hattrick15

music alchemist said:


> haha. And now I'm thinking about playing Zelda games on Wii. So fun, but it tires your arms out.


 
 The Wii was the perfect console at just the right time.  Nintendo has been lost since then.  People seem to be getting excited by the Switch, but I'm not feeling it.


----------



## NamelessPFG

rhamnetin said:


> There are of course more VR games on PC than on console, plus more than one headset to choose from.  But then HTC and Facebook/Oculus fight for exclusive games, VR will probably just be a rather short lived fad for this reason and numerous others.


 
  
 I'm not happy about the exclusivity thing, but thankfully, with Oculus Touch finally out, we're starting to see feature parity between the two camps.
  
 It's not quite there yet in that two-sensor, opposed-corner tracking isn't reliable enough for my liking with Rift + Touch, though. I'm gonna need three, maybe even four cameras to get the tracking reliability I'm looking for, something that Vive users apparently don't have to worry about nearly as much with just two base stations, but even Lighthouse still requires line of sight and can suffer from occlusion.
  
 I still greatly prefer Oculus Touch's design as a controller, though. It just released far later than it should have.
  


hattrick15 said:


> It's going to take awhile before VR takes off.  Right now, must of the experiences feel like tech demos, not real games.  PC has the power to give you a better experience (HTC being the best), but Sony is going to sell more units because they are at a more friendly price.  Wait another 2 more years before there's decent VR games on a system that doesn't break the bank.  At least, that's my opinion.


 
  
 The cost to entry _is_ exceedingly high, and I dread the thought of having to pay $900 for a PS4 Pro + Move + PSVR setup down the road just for exclusives, especially after seeing all the complaints regarding Sony's outdated tracking system. When you're like me and you've already got a competent gaming PC, it makes the Rift and Vive seem more affordable by comparison, but for those who don't, it'll easily double the total price if you don't have a desktop PC that can be easily upgraded.
  
 Still, you can already play "real games" with VR, particularly cockpit sims (DCS World, Elite: Dangerous, FSX w/FlyInside, Project CARS and Assetto Corza to name a few), and more recently, we've got Serious Sam VR: The First Encounter for those of us who can't stand being forced to teleport around in games. Moving around with Oculus Touch analog sticks is quite liberating to me, and it doesn't even leave me feeling any sort of motion sickness!
  
 I'd also count Onward as a "real game" already, even with its in-development, not-quite-finished state yearning for more game modes and more maps. It's singlehandedly made non-VR milsims uninteresting for a lot of players after having tried it, and I'll probably end up among them once I have some extra Oculus sensor cameras for room-scale play.


----------



## Music Alchemist

namelesspfg said:


> I'm not happy about the exclusivity thing, but thankfully, with Oculus Touch finally out, we're starting to see feature parity between the two camps.
> 
> It's not quite there yet in that two-sensor, opposed-corner tracking isn't reliable enough for my liking with Rift + Touch, though. I'm gonna need three, maybe even four cameras to get the tracking reliability I'm looking for, something that Vive users apparently don't have to worry about nearly as much with just two base stations, but even Lighthouse still requires line of sight and can suffer from occlusion.
> 
> I still greatly prefer Oculus Touch's design as a controller, though. It just released far later than it should have.


 
  




  
 https://forums.oculus.com/vip/discussion/23795/nervegear-a-reality-not-far-away


----------



## Aoeut

I grew up a console gamer and switched to PC after the 360/PS3 generation. These days every game I'm interested in is being released cross platform anyways, so the only real choice seems to be between what kind of controller I want to play with. So add that I wanted a solid desktop computer for non-gaming use anyways to that I prefer mouse and keyboard for shooters and PC became an obvious choice for me.
  
 My only current gen console right now is a second Wii U for playing Splatoon with my wife because she's obsessed.


----------



## Matrixnobu

I'm PC all the way cuz I mainly play Skyrim, Oblivion, Witcher Series, Fallout. So as you are about to guess I mod.


----------



## Rhamnetin

matrixnobu said:


> I'm PC all the way cuz I mainly play Skyrim, Oblivion, Witcher Series, Fallout. So as you are about to guess I mod.


----------



## akg fanboy

anything below 100fps is unplayable for me. 60fps is already bad enough, cinematic 30fps and lower shader/texture/polygons would be a nightmare, the motion blur and input lag alone would be enough to put me off


----------



## Rhamnetin

akg fanboy said:


> anything below 100fps is unplayable for me. 60fps is already bad enough, cinematic 30fps and lower shader/texture/polygons would be a nightmare, the motion blur and input lag alone would be enough to put me off


 
  
 I'm starting to feel the same way after extensive gaming at 120 FPS with ULMB.  100 FPS + ULMB is the minimum point where I won't really complain, anything less is visibly unsmooth and I will complain.


----------



## Weshcubb

I'm a PC gamer who came from PC roots yet has spent more time with consoles, I grew up in the era of Marathon on Mac and Quake and Unreal Tournament on PC. So I have some old shooter roots however as a kid, I switched over to Console gaming for the couch co-op which I have begun to crave again. I kept up with my console gaming until after I graduated high school and started realizing how little time was ever left in my life or rather, in the life of my friends when I was available to play couch co-op. So, I sold my ps3 at the time and started building a computer. Started off almost all refurb or second hand parts and the processor I'm rockin is still the original PhenomII X6 I bought used 5 or so years ago now haha. Looking to upgrade to the new Ryzen cores if they end up being as good as they're looking. It's nice though because there's such a variety of games out there to play and I have gathered a collection of 4 wired X-Box 360 controllers and still do a little couch co-op with stuff like the new Gauntlet game or different beatem-up games. So having been in the best of both worlds, while I think we should just move to a world of steam machines and pc gaming to ditch things like the PSN or X-Box live, I feel that both consoles and PC gaming have their fits in this world.


----------



## akg fanboy

weshcubb said:


> I'm a PC gamer who came from PC roots yet has spent more time with consoles, I grew up in the era of Marathon on Mac and Quake and Unreal Tournament on PC. So I have some old shooter roots however as a kid, I switched over to Console gaming for the couch co-op which I have begun to crave again. I kept up with my console gaming until after I graduated high school and started realizing how little time was ever left in my life or rather, in the life of my friends when I was available to play couch co-op. So, I sold my ps3 at the time and started building a computer. Started off almost all refurb or second hand parts and the processor I'm rockin is still the original PhenomII X6 I bought used 5 or so years ago now haha. Looking to upgrade to the new Ryzen cores if they end up being as good as they're looking. It's nice though because there's such a variety of games out there to play and I have gathered a collection of 4 wired X-Box 360 controllers and still do a little couch co-op with stuff like the new Gauntlet game or different beatem-up games. So having been in the best of both worlds, while I think we should just move to a world of steam machines and pc gaming to ditch things like the PSN or X-Box live, I feel that both consoles and PC gaming have their fits in this world.


 
 Very interesting story, damn you're still using phenom like a champ. Ryzen is definitely an enticing option, I myself am considering it too (the 8 core of course). The reason why steam machines haven't taken over is because of their prices and options. Steam machines start at around $500 for the lowest end model, then they present options that go upwards of $1000+ so I think it really intimidates the average console gamer, especially since $500 is a lot more expensive than a ps4 these days going for $260, yet they are getting the lowest model. Building a pc could probably match or exceed a console value, but wouldn't solve the dilemma of console gamers wanting a cheap and no effort experience. However, I would like steam machines to get adopted so we can get proper linux support. We could get better chances with ryzen/vega steam machines with vulkan


----------



## Rhamnetin

akg fanboy said:


> Very interesting story, damn you're still using phenom like a champ. Ryzen is definitely an enticing option, I myself am considering it too (the 8 core of course). The reason why steam machines haven't taken over is because of their prices and options. Steam machines start at around $500 for the lowest end model, then they present options that go upwards of $1000+ so I think it really intimidates the average console gamer, especially since $500 is a lot more expensive than a ps4 these days going for $260, yet they are getting the lowest model. Building a pc could probably match or exceed a console value, but wouldn't solve the dilemma of console gamers wanting a cheap and no effort experience. However, I would like steam machines to get adopted so we can get proper linux support. We could get better chances with ryzen/vega steam machines with vulkan


 
  
 Another problem with Steam Machines is the relatively small game selection on Linux/SteamOS.  Small compared to Windows definitely.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Lately I've been playing console games on PC. Just a little bit, though. The more fast-paced action-oriented ones are difficult for me to control well with a keyboard, whereas it's easy with a controller. And I still need to get around to playing through the PC remaster of Final Fantasy VII (still my favorite game) I bought.
  
@akg fanboy
 Got my HD 800 today.


----------



## Weshcubb

akg fanboy said:


> Very interesting story, damn you're still using phenom like a champ. Ryzen is definitely an enticing option, I myself am considering it too (the 8 core of course). The reason why steam machines haven't taken over is because of their prices and options. Steam machines start at around $500 for the lowest end model, then they present options that go upwards of $1000+ so I think it really intimidates the average console gamer, especially since $500 is a lot more expensive than a ps4 these days going for $260, yet they are getting the lowest model. Building a pc could probably match or exceed a console value, but wouldn't solve the dilemma of console gamers wanting a cheap and no effort experience. However, I would like steam machines to get adopted so we can get proper linux support. We could get better chances with ryzen/vega steam machines with vulkan


 
  
 Lol yea, it's been faithful and out lived several motherboards at this point, and to think, I had it pushed to 4.2ghz on air when I got it! Now due to more motherboard issues (which I haven't done anything about because I figure, screw it, I'll just replace it when I get my Ryzen processor. I do have to say, I agree with you completely on the Steam machine issue. It's biggest problem is that they are trying to hard to make it more computer like than console like, they need to just but a "it'll do" processor and mobo in and go crazy on ram and gpu. For like 400$ I can build a decent console buster so telling me that these companies can't get together to work out a deal and make something as good or not better, slap a steam sticker on it and sell it with the free OS installed. I don't buy it. It's that the manufacturers aren't being smart, or at least that's my perspective. Not to mention the amount of marketing it would take to push them, and where? Not at GameStop where, lets face it, most console users go. Why would they want to sell you something that they could only sell you accessories for? They don't they want you to rely on a physical medium. Now here's where things could get interesting is if they would switch to a solid state delivery system for games again, think SD cards, then we could do encoding in the chip that would make it difficult for pirates to replicate it, think soft token (ex: your steam authenticator on your phone) so that publishers wouldn't have to go DRM-Free, this would be slightly more than the digital medium which would still be available sure, but this would bring back the sharing games and selling used games. 


rhamnetin said:


> Another problem with Steam Machines is the relatively small game selection on Linux/SteamOS.  Small compared to Windows definitely.


 
  
 That's another really good point. It would be awesome to see more Linux/SteamOS support and I would say that It's probably the largest limiting factor. Easy fix for this which would be amazing would to see Valve become a partner with Microsoft and to see the SteamOS capable of playing windows OS stuff only. We have many hurdles but none that I think couldn't be overcome for the better of the industry.


----------



## Yethal

Luckily, more and more game engines support Linux natively (Unity, UE4, CryEngine3), and Vulkan is a cross-platform API so developing games for Linux should be much easier. Hopefully, SteamOS becomes viable at some point.


----------



## vertical

PC Gamer. 
I grew up on the FPS and space sim classics of the 90s (e.g., Doom, Duke Nukem, Quake, FreeSpace) and still mostly play those genres when I have time to game (life's busy these days...married). Prefer mechanical keyboard / mouse and hotas setup I have on my PC for them.


----------



## Digitalis

I wish there were more Star wars games , EA has a stranglehold on the entire franchise and it is only going to hurt them in the end, I know there are some devs out there that could create wonderful story lines within that universe. But EA seem intent on squeezing blood from a stone with the entire battlefront series, and all they will end up with is dust in their hands.
  
 I'd like to see a renewed version of the X-wing and Tie fighter Series, I LOVED playing those games as a kid*. Though as I recall there were balance issues with PvP multiplayer missions in TF Vs XW. The best way of eliminating that would be through giving us a multiplayer PvE Co-Op campaign. I have always wanted to take out the shield generators of a super star destroyer, take out the command center and watch it plow into the death star..I'd be tempted to bring marshmallows.
  
 I Have been playing a lot of Elite dangerous+ DLC. I have a Saitek X-55 rhino HOTAS which makes the game SO_ immersive_.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Star wars rogue one Spoiler!



After Seeing star wars rogue one and the kind of ships [ especially the Tie striker] in that movie mixing atmospheric and space combat in that movie, my desire for a star wars flight sim only got worse. I dug through my old CD cases and found my original X-wing and Tie fighter game discs, they still smell the same way they did when I pulled them out of the box all those years ago...that fresh game box smell.


----------



## vertical

digitalis said:


> I wish there were more Star wars games , EA has a stranglehold on the entire franchise and it is only going to hurt them in the end, I know there are some devs out there that could create wonderful story lines within that universe. But EA seem intent on squeezing blood from a stone with the entire battlefront series, and all they will end up with is dust in their hands.
> 
> I'd like to see a renewed version of the X-wing and Tie fighter Series, I LOVED playing those games as a kid*. Though as I recall there were balance issues with PvP multiplayer missions in TF Vs XW. The best way of eliminating that would be through giving us a multiplayer PvE Co-Op campaign. I have always wanted to take out the shield generators of a super star destroyer, take out the command center and watch it plow into the death star..I'd be tempted to bring marshmallows.
> 
> ...



Yeah, with success of Rogue One movie and new interest in space sims a modern Tie Fighter sequel seems like a no brainer.


----------



## Rhamnetin

I just want KOTOR 3 and perhaps more Star Wars RPGs afterwards, but there isn't a studio with enough talent to successfully pull it off, and EA/BioWare would turn it into another SJW romance simulator with dumbed down casual action gameplay.


----------



## freefunny

PC, even though I was initially a console player. I think I was because I thought of a console being cheaper just buy and done and all you got to do is buy games. Eventually I came across, some random article a long time ago, describing how PC gaming is actually cheaper even if it may be a bit more expensive. Now I love it, just wait a month or two and a game could already be 50% off. Pretty sweet. Now I wait for Ryzen/GTX 10xxTi/11xx to finally upgrade my PC.


----------



## starfirepro

PC Master race here all the way! Always been a PC games, I tried to like consoles, even bought a PS3 a few years ago, and I sold it shortly after that. Just doesn't do it for me. 
  
 Consoles, in my opinion, are a waste of money. Everything you can do with a console, you can do on a PC, a thousand times better. With a thousand more options/customizability. You can game while watching a movie and browsing online. Try doing that on a console.


----------



## Music Alchemist

starfirepro said:


> Everything you can do with a console, you can do on a PC, a thousand times better. With a thousand more options/customizability. You can game while watching a movie and browsing online. Try doing that on a console.


 
  
 Perhaps from a technical standpoint, but not from a licensing one. Some games are only on consoles, so you'd have to use an emulator to play them on PC.
  
 I'm so glad they're making more Final Fantasy games (including XIII and XIII-2) available on PC!
  
 Is your user name a reference to Starfire from Teen Titans? (I love her.) Or maybe it's a golf reference. lol


----------



## starfirepro

My point is consoles shouldn't really exist in the first place, since they are useless compared to PCs. If they didn't, there would be no licensing issues. 
  
 My username is actually something quite random I came up with - there is a spell called "Starfire" in World of Warcraft


----------



## Music Alchemist

starfirepro said:


> My point is consoles shouldn't really exist in the first place, since they are useless compared to PCs. If they didn't, there would be no licensing issues.
> 
> My username is actually something quite random I came up with - there is a spell called "Starfire" in World of Warcraft


 
  
 Hmm, that's a good point. Even as someone who has used consoles for decades, I can imagine how much more interesting it would be if everything was released on PC, with all the options you could want.
  
 Do PC games have anything like the Wii with motion sensor controls?
  
 ahaha. In case you don't know the character I mentioned:


----------



## Weshcubb

music alchemist said:


> Do PC games have anything like the Wii with motion sensor controls?


 
  
 So this is a yes now but up to recently, a maybe? With the PC you get a much larger range of devices you can plug in to use as a controller for motion controls ect. Until VR became much more viable with thinks like HTC's Vive and the Occulous Rift most of your peripherals have been designed for desk use not living room or large space use. That's honestly why consoles begin with at all. We wanted to bring the fun of gaming and the possibility of a computer to the living room to show everyone and get it out of the small office they were usually stuck in, lets face it even now not many of us have living room computers unless it's setup as a home theater computer. So to say consoles were pointless I don't think is fair. We have seen innovation in the way the we interact with out media like the example you had with the Wii motion controls or even things like playstation eye which led to things like Microsofts Kinect. We have seen experiments in video games also with having moved the power of gaming to the living room making games appear more and more like movies the way tomb raider does or literally the way that Fox Hunt was by Capcom. While the room and the power to do more is there on the hardware side of things on PC. There has always been a reason to have the console. Though with things like steam machines and things like steam link and Nvidia shield. Their need and time is coming to an end in my opinion.


----------



## NemanVtc

Pc and Xbox


----------



## Rhamnetin

starfirepro said:


> My point is consoles shouldn't really exist in the first place, since they are useless compared to PCs. If they didn't, there would be no licensing issues.
> 
> My username is actually something quite random I came up with - there is a spell called "Starfire" in World of Warcraft


 
  
 Yeah, in a perfect world consoles would never exist.  Linux would also be mainstream and fully supported, primary even, and games now would be using Vulkan and OpenAL with hardware accelerated sound once again being standard like in the Windows XP days.
  
 Quote:


weshcubb said:


> That's honestly why consoles begin with at all. We wanted to bring the fun of gaming and the possibility of a computer to the living room to show everyone and get it out of the small office they were usually stuck in, lets face it even now not many of us have living room computers unless it's setup as a home theater computer. So to say consoles were pointless I don't think is fair. We have seen innovation in the way the we interact with out media like the example you had with the Wii motion controls or even things like playstation eye which led to things like Microsofts Kinect. We have seen experiments in video games also with having moved the power of gaming to the living room making games appear more and more like movies the way tomb raider does or literally the way that Fox Hunt was by Capcom. While the room and the power to do more is there on the hardware side of things on PC. There has always been a reason to have the console. Though with things like steam machines and things like steam link and Nvidia shield. Their need and time is coming to an end in my opinion.


 
  
 We?
  
 And you already mentioned it, living room PCs.  Consoles did nothing unique to bring gaming to the living room.  Small form factor PCs have been a thing since before consoles.
  
 I do give credit to PlayStation Eye.  Things like that but much better exist on PC (TrackIR and now or soon eye tracking monitors), but I think Eye was the first.  As for the Wii controller, it's kind of like a mouse actually, but even more freedom of movement of course.
  
 Games becoming movies like Tomb Raider (which is also on PC) is often a huge design flaw, since they're forgetting their origins and failing to take advantage of the video game medium.  All of their gameplay is just designed to funnel you into the next cutscene, they are basically static cutscenes and always the same upon every playthrough.  No interactivity, no unique experiences.
  
 Better examples of "cinematics" being used well in the context of video gaming can be found in BioWare games, Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Mankind Divided, and The Witcher 3, these games actually being interactive while being cinematic.  Interaction is a massive advantage that cinema doesn't have, and also a core distinction that divides the mediums, and Naughty Dog games and Tomb Raider fail to incorporate this.  It can take on many forms, such as letting you choose your dialogue responses directly (BioWare games, Telltale games), or making your seemingly automatically chosen dialogue actually the result of something you did in the past (Deus Ex), or countless others.
  
 But this doesn't really have anything to do with consoles.  Nothing about consoles forced those changes, good and bad, to happen.  It was an inevitable style that can be traced back to both console and PC games of the past.  
  
 Music Alchemist hit the nail on the head really; in this day and age, consoles aren't entirely pointless due to licensing, them having a small amount of unique exclusives (mostly originating from Japan/Japanese designers).  
  
 But, as starefirepro and I have said, their inception was unneeded in the first place and ultimately a mistake that continues to limit gaming.  The weak hardware of consoles has been a huge setback; imagine the progress games would have made if consoles never existed?  Almost all in-game objects being physics based and casting dynamic shadows, all lighting being dynamic.  Physics would be entirely GPU bound as some PC exclusive games have shown, thus affecting and improving games more.  AI would be more advanced, especially large scale simulation AI.  
  
 All classics would no longer be hard/impossible to acquire (an issue that plagues consoles), and their great (and often better executed) ideas would still live on in modern games (too often they do not).  Sound effects design wouldn't have suffered the big backwards leap that it did.  Games wouldn't have had to be cut down in size, content, and interactivity so massively, like so many were.  Display technology and audio processor technology would've advanced more as well.  Input technologies would've advanced more too, like analog mechanical keyboards which could've been standard by now rather than prototype only.  And I could go on...


----------



## Yethal

rhamnetin said:


> Yeah, in a perfect world consoles would never exist.  Linux would also be mainstream and fully supported, primary even, and games now would be using Vulkan and OpenAL with hardware accelerated sound once again being standard like in the Windows XP days.


 
 In a perfect world Windows would never exist either.
  
 Also, Dan Cases releases another batch of their A4-SFX case tomorrow. A4-SFX is the smallest PC case ever created so if any of you guys want to build a really tiny PC, now is the chance (no, I'm not affiliated with them, I just like tiny PCs)
  
 https://dan-cases.com/


----------



## Rhamnetin

That case is very pretty, I like the finish.  Good design and airflow too.  Should be great for a living room build/HTPC on that note.


----------



## conflict0102

PC gaming is good but lots of hackers compared to console gaming


----------



## Rhamnetin

conflict0102 said:


> PC gaming is good but lots of hackers compared to console gaming


 
  
 It's not really a problem particularly in newer, popular multiplayer games.  People are too scared to get VAC banned or Origin banned.  You'll still see them from time to time but it's nothing like CoD 4 back in the day... or just "back in the day" in general.  Plus, there are far too many other benefits that can't be ignored.


----------



## Yethal

I installed Linux Mint on an external HDD (can't use an internal one due to size constraints) to check whether Linux gaming got any easier since the last time I tried it. As it turns out, it's not as bad as I remembered. Installing Steam no longer requires fiddling in the terminal, games run as fast as they do on Windows, no unmet dependencies bullschiit, all in all pretty easy thing to do. Installing Nvidia drivers is still a pain but aside from that Linux gaming is pretty doable now.


----------



## Technicolorrayn

yethal said:


> I installed Linux Mint on an external HDD (can't use an internal one due to size constraints) to check whether Linux gaming got any easier since the last time I tried it. As it turns out, it's not as bad as I remembered. Installing Steam no longer requires fiddling in the terminal, games run as fast as they do on Windows, no unmet dependencies bullschiit, all in all pretty easy thing to do. Installing Nvidia drivers is still a pain but aside from that Linux gaming is pretty doable now.


 

 Linux Gaming has come quite a long way. My desktop only runs Linux. I had a moment of relapse last year when I played Overwatch, but Overwatch is already showing promising signs in wine. Now I just stick to the No Tux, no bux mentality.
  
 Edit: Forgot to mention. We got Deus Ex Mankind Divided (Although awful) and we have the new Hitman coming this month


----------



## Yethal

technicolorrayn said:


> Linux Gaming has come quite a long way. My desktop only runs Linux. I had a moment of relapse last year when I played Overwatch, but Overwatch is already showing promising signs in wine. Now I just stick to the No Tux, no bux mentality.
> 
> Edit: Forgot to mention. We got Deus Ex Mankind Divided (Although awful) and we have the new Hitman coming this month


 

 I'd love to play Overwatch on PC one day, lack of Linux version (or Wine version) is the only thing stopping me right now.


----------



## Technicolorrayn

Well if you compile the wine-overwatch patches, you can run it on low. More than a fair share of bugs, but without a native version, it's a matter of waiting for it to be fully implemented in Wine with the majority of bugs fixed.


----------



## Yethal

technicolorrayn said:


> Well if you compile the wine-overwatch patches, you can run it on low. More than a fair share of bugs, but without a native version, it's a matter of waiting for it to be fully implemented in Wine with the majority of bugs fixed.


 

 If I can make it run at 60fps stable then it might be worth the hassle.


----------



## Technicolorrayn

yethal said:


> If I can make it run at 60fps stable then it might be worth the hassle.


 
 Well it shouldn't be too much longer for DX11 support. Sure would like to fire up GTA5 once more


----------



## Yethal

technicolorrayn said:


> Well it shouldn't be too much longer for DX11 support. Sure would like to fire up GTA5 once more


 

 I'd probably have to buy a new GPU first. When I assembled my current work PC the only requirements were small seize and low power consumption so my GPU is not exactly a gaming beast.


----------



## abvolt

PC gaming all the way and of course I build all my custom H2O cooled rigs..enjoy


----------



## Music Alchemist

Guess what you and I have in common. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 (We're both Focal Elear owners...though I'm about to trade mine away for a month.)


----------



## Technicolorrayn

Forgot to mention I owned a Wii U. Actually bought it 3 times new, unfortunately one was stolen and I had to sell the other one. Now I play all the Wii U exclusives since I'm waiting on the Switch. Wii U is actually a pretty great system. Sucks it failed. Playing Xenoblade Chronicles X on it and it's gorgeous. I prefer Nintendo for consoles and my PC for everything else. Sony and Microsoft just don't seem to be making anything new/unique anymore.


----------



## abvolt

music alchemist said:


> Guess what you and I have in common.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Are you keeping them or getting something (for a month or in a month) else I really love their sq..enjoy


----------



## Music Alchemist

abvolt said:


> Are you keeping them or getting something (for a month or in a month) else I really love their sq..enjoy


 
  
 Doing a trial trade: my Elear for another member's TH900. If either of us doesn't want to keep the other headphone after using it for a month, we'll simply trade back.
  
 I summarized my Elear impressions *here*.


----------



## abvolt

music alchemist said:


> Doing a trial trade: my Elear for another member's TH900. If either of us doesn't want to keep the other headphone after using it for a month, we'll simply trade back.
> 
> I summarized my Elear impressions *here*.


 
 Excellent impressions I do agree with thanks for that link good read..


----------



## saddleup

I've only ever played consoles up till now.  I just built my first dedicated PC game machine.
  
 The two main reasons for going PC is Steam and GOG.com.
  
 I love Steam.  I've recently purchased 6 games and I haven't even spent $20.
  
 Steam has a Square Enix sale right now, picked up these titles this morning....
  
 Deus EX GOTY $1.94
 Tomb Raider 1 $1.94
 Tomb Raider Anniversary $2.49
  
 Because of GOG I get to play Magic Carpet 1& 2, Dungeon Keeper 1 & 2 etc. for pocket change.
  
 PC gaming all the way.


----------



## Rhamnetin

saddleup said:


> I've only ever played consoles up till now.  I just built my first dedicated PC game machine.
> 
> The two main reasons for going PC is Steam and GOG.com.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Check out Humble bundle as well.  Game prices is one of the reasons why PC gaming can easily be less expensive in the long run.
  
 Now wait until you try some of the best PC exclusive games and mods.  Deus Ex GOTY is a fine place to start.  While it did get ported to PS2 at some point, it has some amazing mods and isn't limited to old tiny resolutions and such.  I suggest using Revision mod right off the bat, it's on Steam and it is a universal improvement/overhaul mod, mostly graphical (including a DX10 renderer) but fixes some gameplay issues as well.  Play it on Realistic difficulty, it's actually most balanced.


----------



## akg fanboy

rhamnetin said:


> Check out Humble bundle as well.  Game prices is one of the reasons why PC gaming can easily be less expensive in the long run.
> 
> Now wait until you try some of the best PC exclusive games and mods.  Deus Ex GOTY is a fine place to start.  While it did get ported to PS2 at some point, it has some amazing mods and isn't limited to old tiny resolutions and such.  I suggest using Revision mod right off the bat, it's on Steam and it is a universal improvement/overhaul mod, mostly graphical (including a DX10 renderer) but fixes some gameplay issues as well.  Play it on Realistic difficulty, it's actually most balanced.


 
 Got some really great deals on humble bundle but I already owned some of the games because I didn't know of them before. Also can't wait for the ps3 emulator to get more stable, the cemu and citra emulators are taking leaps of progress and pretty stable already.


----------



## saddleup

rhamnetin said:


> Check out Humble bundle as well.  Game prices is one of the reasons why PC gaming can easily be less expensive in the long run.
> 
> Now wait until you try some of the best PC exclusive games and mods.  Deus Ex GOTY is a fine place to start.  While it did get ported to PS2 at some point, it has some amazing mods and isn't limited to old tiny resolutions and such.  I suggest using Revision mod right off the bat, it's on Steam and it is a universal improvement/overhaul mod, mostly graphical (including a DX10 renderer) but fixes some gameplay issues as well.  Play it on Realistic difficulty, it's actually most balanced.


 

 Thanks for the tip on Revision.  I may not have even noticed it.  I now have a third reason to choose PC... mods.


----------



## Rhamnetin

saddleup said:


> Thanks for the tip on Revision.  I may not have even noticed it.  I now have a third reason to choose PC... mods.


 
  
 Yes!  I've played total conversion mods (this type of mod is equivalent to a full fledged game) that outdoes AAA games in the areas that really matter, like writing, quest design, gameplay, art design, originality, longevity, attention to detail in all of these areas, and even soundtrack believe it or not.  This one called Underhell is one of the absolute best FPS games I have ever played, and I've been playing FPS since the late 1990s.
  
 http://moddb.com/mods/underhell/
  
 Many of the best multiplayer shooters began as total conversion mods too, like Natural Selection 2 (the first one is a mod for Half-Life) which I rank in the top 3 best PvP shooters of all time, Rising Storm/Red Orchestra 2 (originated as Red Orchestra, a mod for Unreal Tournament 2004), Killing Floor/Killing Floor 2 (originated as a mod for UT2004), No More Room in Hell (free standalone mod on Steam).
  
 Right now I'm playing a community made adaptation of The Temple of Elemental Evil (which was a 1985 pen and paper RPG module), and it is considerably better than any recent commercial video game RPG I've played.  So this modding excellence extends to many genres.
  
 On a side note, most people don't know that most mainstream popular video game franchises began as PC exclusives.  Examples include Call of Duty, Battlefield, Fallout, The Elder Scrolls, Grand Theft Auto was technically released on PC first but the Playstation release came very shortly after.


----------



## jamjkv

For me if it's a multi-platform release I will pick PC first. On PC I can still play games that are over 10 years old while on console I'm stuck with a certain gen. If my console dies I'm f**ed while on PC I can just swap some parts. For my console fix I play on Playstation. They seem to have more exclusive worth playing. For me anyway. 
 For buying PC games I use deals razerzone. They track around 8 or 9 different websites for deals. Steam and GOG being one of them. You can build a wishlist and they will send you an email when a game goes on sale. It's really handy.


----------



## abvolt

Very true good point I like consoles I just sick big time as a gamer with them can't get used to the controller's, too many years with keyboard & mouse..enjoy


----------



## Music Alchemist

abvolt said:


> Very true good point I like consoles I just sick big time as a gamer with them can't get used to the controller's, too many years with keyboard & mouse..enjoy


 
  
 hehe. I guess what we're used to makes anything else seem alien. I've played consoles since before kindergarten (Duck Hunt on NES is one of my earliest memories), so controllers feel natural to me. I've also used computers for most of my life, but not much for gaming. I can't control things well with a keyboard and mouse, especially with more advanced games that originally used joysticks for camera and character movement.


----------



## akg fanboy

I started with controllers but never really felt like I was getting the most out of my gaming experience. When I first went into pc gaming, I thought the transition to mouse and keyboard would be difficult, but really it takes just as much "effort" as learning all the controller buttons except you already know them since the mouse and keyboard are used outside of gaming too. It feels much more accurate and gives me much more control which I am completely missing when going back to a controller, console games need aim assist for a reason. The only time where a controller is actually superior is in racing games, but a driving wheel is much better for those kinds of games anyways


----------



## abvolt

Very well said, that's the same as I feel..


----------



## Rhamnetin

akg fanboy said:


> I started with controllers but never really felt like I was getting the most out of my gaming experience. When I first went into pc gaming, I thought the transition to mouse and keyboard would be difficult, but really it takes just as much "effort" as learning all the controller buttons except you already know them since the mouse and keyboard are used outside of gaming too. It feels much more accurate and gives me much more control which I am completely missing when going back to a controller, console games need aim assist for a reason. The only time where a controller is actually superior is in racing games, but a driving wheel is much better for those kinds of games anyways


 
  
 This is 100% accurate.  Likewise, I gamed with controllers (on consoles) from childhood to high school before switching to PC gaming.  I thought mouse and keyboard would be weird and inferior even, but the opposite turned out to be true.  We all know how to type already, the transition is easy and a mouse and keyboard is more natural to me since I get to move my hands more freely rather than grip a controller all the time and get sweaty.  Mouse and keyboard is also better for everything except for racing games and maybe fighting games and certain sports games.


----------



## Yethal

I play everything I can using a controller. There are so many titles where m&k combo just doesn't cut it. Souls series, Assassin's Creed any slasher title is unplayable on keyboard to me. The increased precision of the mouse isn't that helpful outside of FPS games and lack of support for "couch gaming" (unless you count the ridiculously overpriced Roccat Sova) doesn't incite me either. I wish a commercial company started building Ben Heck's Steam Controllers those look like a perfect controller.

 Jokes are really cringy but the actual designs are pretty great.


----------



## akg fanboy

yethal said:


> I play everything I can using a controller. There are so many titles where m&k combo just doesn't cut it. Souls series, Assassin's Creed any slasher title is unplayable on keyboard to me. The increased precision of the mouse isn't that helpful outside of FPS games and lack of support for "couch gaming" (unless you count the ridiculously overpriced Roccat Sova) doesn't incite me either. I wish a commercial company started building Ben Heck's Steam Controllers those look like a perfect controller.
> 
> Jokes are really cringy but the actual designs are pretty great.




 I think we can agree that most pc gamers are more serious than console gamers, therefore all the competitive and MLG stuff is always pc gamers. To me, those games you listed are better on keyboard as far as my experience goes. You can play a pc on the couch as a less serious and more laid back experience using a controller, but personally I'm not a couch gamer nor a tv watcher so that would be a waste of a pc to me.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Now I'm remembering the first time I played Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City on PS3 and didn't realize it had automatically connected me to team play instead of AI. I was totally new at the game and fumbling about, and I could hear other gamers on my team yelling at me, like, "What are you doing? What is wrong with you?" hahaha XD


----------



## jamjkv

akg fanboy said:


> I think we can agree that most pc gamers are more serious than console gamers, therefore all the competitive and MLG stuff is always pc gamers. To me, those games you listed are better on keyboard as far as my experience goes. You can play a pc on the couch as a less serious and more laid back experience using a controller, but personally I'm not a couch gamer nor a tv watcher so that would be a waste of a pc to me.


 
 I don't know about that that pc gamers are more serious than consoles gamers. Different machines, different platforms. It doesn't make one more serious than the other. Competitive MLG is also on console. Just looking at their website I see tons of games on console from COD to Rocket League. I can't tell if you were serious or not with your statement.
 I think both have their merits. I think FPS are better played with a keyboard and mouse but some other games are better with a controller. For example Brothers: A tale of two sons


----------



## akg fanboy

jamjkv said:


> I don't know about that that pc gamers are more serious than consoles gamers. Different machines, different platforms. It doesn't make one more serious than the other. Competitive MLG is also on console. Just looking at their website I see tons of games on console from COD to Rocket League. I can't tell if you were serious or not with your statement.
> I think both have their merits. I think FPS are better played with a keyboard and mouse but some other games are better with a controller. For example Brothers: A tale of two sons


 
 I will admit I am not familiar with the actual mlg term outside of the mlg montages 
 But the major competitive scenes with the large audiences and prize pools are most always pc with the exception of cod which has a bad name for itself. LOL, dota, starcraft, smite, csgo, etc.
  
 Games that were originally designed for controllers do work a lot better on controllers, but if designed equally for both, a keyboard and mouse will at least always be equal in my experience. My biggest gripe with the controller is the analog sticks, in no situation have I found a mouse inferior


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> My biggest gripe with the controller is the analog sticks, in no situation have I found a mouse inferior


 
  
 In Final Fantasy XIII and XIII-2 on PS3, much of the time you control characters with one joystick and camera movement with the other joystick, and it's very precise. I wouldn't want to do that with a keyboard and mouse. Those two games were later released on Steam, and I'm excited to eventually play them on PC, but I'm worried the controls will feel too weird to me. I'd probably try to hook up a PS3 controller instead.


----------



## Yethal

akg fanboy said:


> I will admit I am not familiar with the actual mlg term outside of the mlg montages
> But the major competitive scenes with the large audiences and prize pools are most always pc with the exception of cod which has a bad name for itself. LOL, dota, starcraft, smite, csgo, etc.
> 
> Games that were originally designed for controllers do work a lot better on controllers, but if designed equally for both, a keyboard and mouse will at least always be equal in my experience. My biggest gripe with the controller is the analog sticks, in no situation have I found a mouse inferior


 

 Racing games are unplayable on m&k. Lack of analog acceleration and turning makes them rather painful to play.
  
 As for competitive play, Game Battles in MLG have equal number of PC and console titles
 http://gamebattles.majorleaguegaming.com/pc


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> In Final Fantasy XIII and XIII-2 on PS3, much of the time you control characters with one joystick and camera movement with the other joystick, and it's very precise. I wouldn't want to do that with a keyboard and mouse. Those two games were later released on Steam, and I'm excited to eventually play them on PC, but I'm worried the controls will feel too weird to me. I'd probably try to hook up a PS3 controller instead.


 
 That could possibly be due to the games being designed for consoles then later ported to pc, I know tons of pc ports are badly optimized, and final fantasy is one of them too with those 30fps caps. I am interested in the franchise so I could possibly buy it to try in the future once the next steam sale happens though


----------



## akg fanboy

yethal said:


> Racing games are unplayable on m&k. Lack of analog acceleration and turning makes them rather painful to play.
> 
> As for competitive play, Game Battles in MLG have equal number of PC and console titles
> http://gamebattles.majorleaguegaming.com/pc


 
 I did say that racing games are probably better on controller but then a driving wheel is way better than any of them, in my previous post. I never had a problem playing rocket league or need for speed on mouse and keyboard, however it really lacked any kind of immersion and excitement during the racing moments


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> That could possibly be due to the games being designed for consoles then later ported to pc, I know tons of pc ports are badly optimized, and final fantasy is one of them too with those 30fps caps. I am interested in the franchise so I could possibly buy it to try in the future once the next steam sale happens though


 
  
 Probably. The prices are already better than console prices (at least compared to when the games first came out) even when they're not on sale. But if you haven't already played some of the earlier Final Fantasy games (especially VII, which is my favorite game of all time), I think it would be better to get experience with those titles first.


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> Probably. The prices are already better than console prices (at least compared to when the games first came out) even when they're not on sale. But if you haven't already played some of the earlier Final Fantasy games (especially VII, which is my favorite game of all time), I think it would be better to get experience with those titles first.


 
 I heard about the ff7 remake which looks awesome, and the devs said 15 might come out on pc soon. Will definitely consider the older ones too


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> I heard about the ff7 remake which looks awesome, and the devs said 15 might come out on pc soon. Will definitely consider the older ones too


 
  
 I've been waiting for that remake for so many years. Too bad they're releasing it in small installments instead of all at once. I bought FF7 multiple times: on PS1 discs, PS3/PSP/Vita download, and PC download. (The last one has remastered graphics and slight alterations but is basically the same.)


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> I've been waiting for that remake for so many years. Too bad they're releasing it in small installments instead of all at once. I bought FF7 multiple times: on PS1 discs, PS3/PSP/Vita download, and PC download. (The last one has remastered graphics and slight alterations but is basically the same.)


 
 I would just give you a like and end the convo there since I too want to play the game but have nothing to add since I am not familiar with the games. However the like function is disabled so I will give you my very special emoji just for you:


----------



## TwirlyWhirly555

Well I was a console person and will probably still use it but i've just finished building a pc for gaming and anything else I decide to do : D


----------



## audioBenj

I started out as a console gamer. In fact, my very first console was a Super Nintendo. I ventured into PC gaming back in the early 00s because Counter-Strike.xD I am now into PC gaming because of the fact that it has better graphics (better components) and you can pretty much tweak your gaming chassis to your liking. This is not to say that console gaming is bad, I just prefer PC gaming because of the reasons I've highlighted.


----------



## JR1911

99% PC, 1% console. I've got an Xbox360, but I think the last time I've played anything on it is at least a year ago.


----------



## shinjinian

I'm both. I started out with consoles and built a best of a PC like 6 years ago and continued making new builds since. I still play on consoles a lot and my PS4 and Vita get plenty of hours.


----------



## Music Alchemist

My brother told me tonight that he plays through EarthBound (my second favorite game) once a year. haha
  


shinjinian said:


> I'm both. I started out with consoles and built a best of a PC like 6 years ago and continued making new builds since. I still play on consoles a lot and my PS4 and Vita get plenty of hours.


 
  
 God, I miss my Vita. Definitely gonna buy another sooner or later...
  
 I've been busy with other things lately and haven't set aside time for gaming. A few years ago I gamed for hours every day. ...Actually, that applies to many years of my life. hehe


----------



## shinjinian

music alchemist said:


> God, I miss my Vita. Definitely gonna buy another sooner or later...
> 
> I've been busy with other things lately and haven't set aside time for gaming. A few years ago I gamed for hours every day. ...Actually, that applies to many years of my life. hehe



Yeah I haven't gamed much in quite a while other than scattered games of BF1/BF4, although I plan on setting more time aside for Nier Automata and the latest Zelda game. Hopefully I'll be able to chip away at my backlog afterwards. The vitas definitely worth having around, especially if you travel a lot or have a long commute.


----------



## Music Alchemist

shinjinian said:


> Yeah I haven't gamed much in quite a while other than scattered games of BF1/BF4, although I plan on setting more time aside for Nier Automata and the latest Zelda game. Hopefully I'll be able to chip away at my backlog afterwards. The vitas definitely worth having around, especially if you travel a lot or have a long commute.


 
  
 I've been a huge Zelda fan since A Link To The Past. I even got the animated television series on DVD! ("Well excuuuuse _me_, Princess!" lmao) Haven't scratched the surface of playing all the games, though. The remake of Ocarina Of Time on 3DS blew my mind. Looks so much better than the original N64 version.
  
 I really loved playing WipEout (futuristic racing) games on Vita. And playing the old Final Fantasy games on it was a real treat. I'm still waiting for the day when they make Final Fantasy XIII-2 and such playable on Vita. That would be heaven for me.


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> I've been a huge Zelda fan since A Link To The Past. I even got the animated television series on DVD! ("Well excuuuuse _me_, Princess!" lmao) Haven't scratched the surface of playing all the games, though. The remake of Ocarina Of Time on 3DS blew my mind. Looks so much better than the original N64 version.
> 
> I really loved playing WipEout (futuristic racing) games on Vita. And playing the old Final Fantasy games on it was a real treat. I'm still waiting for the day when they make Final Fantasy XIII-2 and such playable on Vita. That would be heaven for me.


 
 I think you will really like Nier automata, it has that final fantasy vibe to it and it's the closest thing to it on a modern pc title, but it's on consoles too if you're interested. I know I'm buying it on pc
  
 soundtrack is cool too
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOcZpMIU5hg
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIeVc1yE4TY


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> I think you will really like Nier automata, it has that final fantasy vibe to it and it's the closest thing to it on a modern pc title, but it's on consoles too if you're interested. I know I'm buying it on pc
> 
> soundtrack is cool too


 
   
Looks like Final Fantasy + Metal Gear. That's right up my alley!

  
 ...Alas, I just don't have the luxury of that right now. I _do_ have nothing but free time, but that may change soon enough, and I gotta take care of business, so to speak. It's on my mental list of games to check out.
  
 I'm crazy about soundtracks too. I spent four figures on Final Fantasy soundtracks alone!
  
 Here are links for the upcoming soundtracks:
 http://vgmdb.net/album/65091
 http://vgmdb.net/album/66118


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> Looks like Final Fantasy + Metal Gear. That's right up my alley!
> 
> ...Alas, I just don't have the luxury of that right now. I _do_ have nothing but free time, but that may change soon enough, and I gotta take care of business, so to speak. It's on my mental list of games to check out.
> 
> ...


 
 ah I see, and the money you spent on just final fantasy soundtracks is insane...... I don't think I spent that much on even games..... YET
 I will see if I can rip the soundtrack since it should already be in the game when I buy it. I heard the vocals are made from a made of language, no wonder why I thought it had some similarities of certain languages but I could never pick up what language it was lol.


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> ah I see, and the money you spent on just final fantasy soundtracks is insane...... I don't think I spent that much on even games..... YET


 
  
 I spent hundreds on DLC for games I no longer own too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 (At least I can buy digital versions of the games later...the DLC is still on my PlayStation Store account. But I can't re-download the digital Wii content I bought.)


----------



## shinjinian

akg fanboy said:


> I think you will really like Nier automata, it has that final fantasy vibe to it and it's the closest thing to it on a modern pc title, but it's on consoles too if you're interested. I know I'm buying it on pc
> 
> soundtrack is cool too
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOcZpMIU5hg
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIeVc1yE4TY


 

 I'm just disappointed that the PC didn't get a collectors set. I was torn between better graphics and the black box ps4 edition but in the end I'm a sucke for LE stuff so I ended up getting it for PS4, once I have the collectors edition I can always pick it up super cheap in a steam sale in a few months. I just hate that square enix never includes the full soundtracks in the collectors editions, I'll have to import it from Japan if they don't put it on the US store.
  


music alchemist said:


> Looks like Final Fantasy + Metal Gear. That's right up my alley!
> 
> ...Alas, I just don't have the luxury of that right now. I _do_ have nothing but free time, but that may change soon enough, and I gotta take care of business, so to speak. It's on my mental list of games to check out.
> 
> ...


 
 I love a lot of game soundtracks and have a few but that's an impressive amount to spend on them. Although there's a few OST's on my list that'll probably end up hitting me for a huge chunk of change. SE really knows how to milk their fanbase


----------



## Music Alchemist

shinjinian said:


> I'm just disappointed that the PC didn't get a collectors set. I was torn between better graphics and the black box ps4 edition but in the end I'm a sucke for LE stuff so I ended up getting it for PS4, once I have the collectors edition I can always pick it up super cheap in a steam sale in a few months. I just hate that square enix never includes the full soundtracks in the collectors editions, I'll have to import it from Japan if they don't put it on the US store.
> 
> I love a lot of game soundtracks and have a few but that's an impressive amount to spend on them. Although there's a few OST's on my list that'll probably end up hitting me for a huge chunk of change. SE really knows how to milk their fanbase


 
  
 And look how many there are!
  
 http://vgmdb.net/search?q=final+fantasy&field=date
  
 Even spending that much, I only got a few, really. It's mainly because some of them were limited edition box sets that cost $100 or more each.
  
 I don't even want to think about how much it'll set me back to buy all the anime soundtracks I love. (I've probably seen over 7,000 episodes, so that's a lotta music.)


----------



## shinjinian

music alchemist said:


> And look how many there are!
> 
> http://vgmdb.net/search?q=final+fantasy&field=date
> 
> ...



Yeah I've been considering the LE FF XV ost which is over $100, those suckers aren't cheap. As for the anime soundtracks there's so many amazing ones that I can't imagine how much it'd cost to collect all the ones I like, I've had to have watched over a hundred series. I'm a big fan of Kaoru Wada's work, he did some really great dark sounding tracks for Inuyasha and Casshern Sins.


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> I spent hundreds on DLC for games I no longer own too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's why I don't support game developers who pile DLCs on half finished games. The only time I ever buy dlc is during the steam sale where I can get them for like 80% off


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> That's why I don't support game developers who pile DLCs on half finished games. The only time I ever buy dlc is during the steam sale where I can get them for like 80% off


 
  
 What do you mean by half-finished?
  
 I actually loved some of the DLC I bought. Here's an example. (I pretty much bought all of these.)
  
 http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Final_Fantasy_XIII-2_downloadable_content
  
 Even items that have no practical benefit really add to the experience, like being able to move the camera around and see the different outfits of characters in 3D.


----------



## akg fanboy

shinjinian said:


> I'm just disappointed that the PC didn't get a collectors set. I was torn between better graphics and the black box ps4 edition but in the end I'm a sucke for LE stuff so I ended up getting it for PS4, once I have the collectors edition I can always pick it up super cheap in a steam sale in a few months. I just hate that square enix never includes the full soundtracks in the collectors editions, I'll have to import it from Japan if they don't put it on the US store.
> 
> I love a lot of game soundtracks and have a few but that's an impressive amount to spend on them. Although there's a few OST's on my list that'll probably end up hitting me for a huge chunk of change. SE really knows how to milk their fanbase


 
 For me, I'm just interested in playing the game mostly. I would only go with PC because of the _frame rate _rather than the graphics, I need my 100+ fps rather than the 40s @900p I've been hearing on the ps4. I heard people complaining about the graphics but it looks perfectly fine to me for a game of that genre, it's no ff15 but I've seen a lot worse (_breathe of the wild_ and_ the last guardian_).
 Ps4 has some really nice graphics in their exclusives like uncharted and zero dawn but I am unwilling to play anything below 80fps, and the ps4 struggles to keep even 40fps in many of those games.
  
 I understand the soundtrack struggle, there's a japanese metal band I listen to and they have exclusive songs/instrumentals/covers that were only ever obtainable through japan pre order........ like await me your oath which I love because of the solo... there is an acoustic version of it and I never heard because it was japan only lol
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUVnRo2hTeo


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> What do you mean by half-finished?
> 
> I actually loved some of the DLC I bought. Here's an example. (I pretty much bought all of these.)
> 
> ...


 
 I don't have experience with final fantasy so maybe you did get some real good content from those DLCs, but I'm talking about things like ubisoft and EA who always release half finished games with bad pc optimizations and pile a ton of DLCs to get the whole game on launch date. If a DLC actually adds additional content to the game, meaning extending the gameplay which actual development after release like the witcher 3 then I fully support that


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> I understand the soundtrack struggle, there's a japanese metal band I listen to and they have exclusive songs/instrumentals/covers that were only ever obtainable through japan pre order........ like await me your oath which I love because of the solo... there is an acoustic version of it and I never heard because it was japan only lol


 
  
 Stuff like that is easy enough to find on the used market. Just gotta look in the right places. I used to collect rare music.


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> Stuff like that is easy enough to find on the used market. Just gotta look in the right places. I used to collect rare music.


 
 obscure newish band+pre order limited edition+located in japan........ I DUNU if I can find that..... google has zero results. I would gladly buy them IF I could find them though lol.


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> obscure newish band+pre order limited edition+located in japan........ I DUNU if I can find that..... google has zero results. I would gladly buy them IF I could find them though lol.


 
  
 They're not _that_ obscure or new.
  
 http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Serenity_in_Murder/3540334455
  
 There are plenty of results on Google for the limited edition of their new album. (Though it was indeed a preorder exclusive.) But it only came out last month. You'll have to give it some time for it to show up on the used market.


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> They're not _that_ obscure or new.
> 
> http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Serenity_in_Murder/3540334455
> 
> There are plenty of results on Google for the limited edition of their new album. (Though it was indeed a preorder exclusive.) But it only came out last month. You'll have to give it some time for it to show up on the used market.


 
 They had 3 different limited editions that each had exclusive tracks across 3 different japanese online websites, something tells me this is gonna be an extraordinarily long journey to find, hopefully you are right and I can find them sooner or later..........


----------



## shinjinian

akg fanboy said:


> That's why I don't support game developers who pile DLCs on half finished games. The only time I ever buy dlc is during the steam sale where I can get them for like 80% off



Some dlc's are worth buying though. Bethesda is a good example of well made DLC's, take shivering isles for example. Ironically they're also a good example of how not to do DLC with their horse armor DLC lol. Some DLC are full expansions to an already good game and then there's games like Destiny where you need 4 DLCs to get the full game. There's stuff I don't regret spending $20 on but most of it definitely isn't worth it.


----------



## audioBenj

I actually asked a friend of mine who still plays on a console (Playstation 4) and he said that he just wants the experience. He said that the "feel" is just different playing on a console as opposed to having it on the PC.


----------



## akg fanboy

audiobenj said:


> I actually asked a friend of mine who still plays on a console (Playstation 4) and he said that he just wants the experience. He said that the "feel" is just different playing on a console as opposed to having it on the PC.


 
 you could hook up your pc to the tv, use a controller, and use steam in big picture mode for the same experience


----------



## Shayko

As an MMO gamer, PC has been the only choice for me. Also, I enjoy listening to music with game sounds muted, which is simpler to do on PC.


----------



## Rhamnetin

akg fanboy said:


> you could hook up your pc to the tv, use a controller, and use steam in big picture mode for the same experience


 
  
 A better experience too.  Possibly better visuals, audio, performance, and most of all mods plus more and better games (for most genres).


----------



## saddleup

I just received notification from GOG.com that they are having a sale of up to 90% off.  Just about every title on my wish list is $1.99 CDN.  The Magic Carpet games, Dungeon Keepers, the Wing Commander games, the Populous series, Witcher and on and on it goes.
  
 Another win for the PC.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Does anyone here play visual novels?
  
 I'm into Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni (When They Cry). I first saw the anime, which became my second favorite...but it was originally a visual novel series. I've only watched through some of it on YouTube, since it's one of the types you can't make any decisions in. But it has one of the best plots I've ever seen. The entire thing is apparently hundreds of hours long! They rereleased most of it on PS3 (most of them are on PC, but also on consoles) with full voice acting, new songs, CGs, minigames, functions, etc. Sadly, this version was only released in Japan, and it doesn't even have English subtitles!


----------



## Rhamnetin

saddleup said:


> I just received notification from GOG.com that they are having a sale of up to 90% off.  Just about every title on my wish list is $1.99 CDN.  The Magic Carpet games, Dungeon Keepers, the Wing Commander games, the Populous series, Witcher and on and on it goes.
> 
> Another win for the PC.


 
  
 Yup, spring sale.  Great games on sale.  I bought Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura for a friend, and The Age of Decadence for myself.
  


music alchemist said:


> Does anyone here play visual novels?
> 
> I'm into Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni (When They Cry). I first saw the anime, which became my second favorite...but it was originally a visual novel series. I've only watched through some of it on YouTube, since it's one of the types you can't make any decisions in. But it has one of the best plots I've ever seen. The entire thing is apparently hundreds of hours long! They rereleased most of it on PS3 (most of them are on PC, but also on consoles) with full voice acting, new songs, CGs, minigames, functions, etc. Sadly, this version was only released in Japan, and it doesn't even have English subtitles!


 
  
 I do not, but if you like visual novels then you might really like Planescape: Torment, and maybe some of Telltale's games too.


----------



## akg fanboy

rhamnetin said:


> Yup, spring sale.  Great games on sale.  I bought Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura for a friend, and The Age of Decadence for myself.
> 
> 
> I do not, but if you like visual novels then you might really like Planescape: Torment, and maybe some of Telltale's games too.


 
 never played visual novel or telltale stuff, but I get tempted every time I see the telltale bundle during the steam sale, might pick it up next time


----------



## audioBenj

shayko said:


> As an MMO gamer, PC has been the only choice for me. Also, I enjoy listening to music with game sounds muted, which is simpler to do on PC.


 
 Basically how I play games these days.xD


----------



## Music Alchemist

shayko said:


> Also, I enjoy listening to music with game sounds muted, which is simpler to do on PC.


 


audiobenj said:


> Basically how I play games these days.xD


 
  
 I've only played like that a few times. Listening to DMX's debut album on headphones and a CD player while playing Twisted Metal 2 on PS1 in the late '90s comes to mind.


----------



## Rhamnetin

^^ The closest I've ever come to gaming like that is lowering the game's music volume all the way and playing something I like more instead.  I do it in Total War: Warhammer battles.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

I'm a PC gamer largely out of convenience. Steam, GameJolt, and Itch.io just make it so easy to pick up games on the fly for not much money, plus I don't need to relocate.


----------



## Music Alchemist

someguydude said:


> I'm a PC gamer largely out of convenience. Steam, GameJolt, and Itch.io just make it so easy to pick up games on the fly for not much money, plus I don't need to relocate.


 
  
 I like how so many here now are people I (sort of) know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 What do you mean by relocate?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

music alchemist said:


> I like how so many here now are people I (sort of) know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Like I usually have either my laptop on me or I'm sitting at my desk. To do any console gaming I have to head to the living room, make sure no one's using the TV, and fire it up there. For PC gaming, I can just switch windows for a little while.
  
 I have a dual monitor setup, so usually when I game I can just toss social network stuff in the other one and keep chatting pretty easily while gaming.


----------



## Music Alchemist

someguydude said:


> Like I usually have either my laptop on me or I'm sitting at my desk. To do any console gaming I have to head to the living room, make sure no one's using the TV, and fire it up there. For PC gaming, I can just switch windows for a little while.
> 
> I have a dual monitor setup, so usually when I game I can just toss social network stuff in the other one and keep chatting pretty easily while gaming.


 
  
 Ah. Well, you could put a TV in any room. I've done that for bedrooms, though living rooms do have a better atmosphere for console gaming. You could also connect a console to a computer monitor.


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> Ah. Well, you could put a TV in any room. I've done that for bedrooms, though living rooms do have a better atmosphere for console gaming. You could also connect a console to a computer monitor.


 
 I think consoles are best for TVs since you are sitting pretty far away from them so the decreased resolution and graphics don't really affect you. Once you're on a monitor though, everything is much closer and graphics, textures, resolution, frame rate all start to become more apparent.


----------



## Shayko

music alchemist said:


> Does anyone here play visual novels?
> 
> I'm into Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni (When They Cry). I first saw the anime, which became my second favorite...but it was originally a visual novel series. I've only watched through some of it on YouTube, since it's one of the types you can't make any decisions in. But it has one of the best plots I've ever seen. The entire thing is apparently hundreds of hours long! They rereleased most of it on PS3 (most of them are on PC, but also on consoles) with full voice acting, new songs, CGs, minigames, functions, etc. Sadly, this version was only released in Japan, and it doesn't even have English subtitles!


 
 I never played Higurashi, but I've finished Little Busters, Fate S/N, and G-Senjou no Maou.


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> I think consoles are best for TVs since you are sitting pretty far away from them so the decreased resolution and graphics don't really affect you. Once you're on a monitor though, everything is much closer and graphics, textures, resolution, frame rate all start to become more apparent.


 
  
 But you can control the distance of any of the screens, as well as which type and size you buy.


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> But you can control the distance of any of the screens, as well as which type and size you buy.


 
 A monitor is usually a lot smaller so it usually just stands at desk distance. But I could see select instances where you might just buy a monitor to play consoles in your room


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> A monitor is usually a lot smaller so it usually just stands at desk distance. But I could see select instances where you might just buy a monitor to play consoles in your room


 
  
 You could go full-on Batman with those giant screens like in the Batcave.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

music alchemist said:


> Ah. Well, you could put a TV in any room. I've done that for bedrooms, though living rooms do have a better atmosphere for console gaming. You could also connect a console to a computer monitor.


 
  
 I could, and I've done that in the past, I just admit that consoles, for me, only offer a benefit when it's either games I can't get on PC or I want to play local multiplayer. It's why I'm almost certainly getting a Switch.


----------



## Music Alchemist

I'm using an Insignia mouse now instead of my laptop's touchpad. It's so much more efficient! I give up some precision (I can easily control things with accuracy down to a single pixel with the touchpad), especially without a mousepad at the moment, but I can get things done so much more quickly this way, and it's easier on my hands and fingers.
  
 Although I still identify as a console gamer, I got rid of most of my consoles years ago. The only remaining ones are in storage in another state. So technically, the only gaming I do nowadays is on PC. Ironic, huh?
  
 Here's a list of all the consoles I've owned, in order of their release date:
  
 home:
 Nintendo Entertainment System
 Sega Genesis
 Sega Pico
 Super Nintendo Entertainment System
 PlayStation
 Nintendo 64
 Nintendo GameCube
 PlayStation 3
 Nintendo Wii
  
 handheld:
 Nintendo Game Boy Advance SP
 PlayStation Portable
 Nintendo 3DS
 PlayStation Vita


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Razer fanboy checking in.


----------



## akg fanboy

someguydude said:


> Razer fanboy checking in.


 
_cherry mx browns_ and _pmw 3366_ fanboy here


----------



## Rhamnetin

akg fanboy said:


> _cherry mx browns_ and _pmw 3366_ fanboy here


 
  
 I'm also a PMW3366 fanboy, after using such mice (Logitech G Pro and G403) I can't go back to anything else.
  
 I hate Cherry MX Browns though.  Not tactile enough for the tactility to be worthwhile.


----------



## Music Alchemist

someguydude said:


> Razer fanboy checking in.


 


akg fanboy said:


> _cherry mx browns_ and _pmw 3366_ fanboy here


 


rhamnetin said:


> I'm also a PMW3366 fanboy, after using such mice (Logitech G Pro and G403) I can't go back to anything else.
> 
> I hate Cherry MX Browns though.  Not tactile enough for the tactility to be worthwhile.


 
  
 So just for convenience, can you guys link me to the best keyboards and mice you know of? I'm just using cheapo ones now.


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> So just for convenience, can you guys link me to the best keyboards and mice you know of? I'm just using cheapo ones now.


 
 depends on what kind of sound/tactile response you prefer, and if you need the number pad


----------



## Rhamnetin

akg fanboy said:


> depends on what kind of sound/tactile response you prefer, and if you need the number pad


 
  
 This.  Here is a guide to get started.
  
 http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/official-mechanical-keyboard-guide
  
 I suggest a switch tester so you can find out your favorite switch type before buying.  This is the best one I know of and it is the one I have.
  
 http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-keycap-cherry-mx-switch-o-ring-pro-sampler-tester-kit.html
  
 As for mice, I suggest a finely made cloth mouse pad and one of the higher end Logitech mice (whichever one has a shape you think you will like).  The PMW3366 sensor is widely accepted as being the best and most precise, and it is (or was) exclusive to Logitech.  I have both the G Pro and G403.


----------



## jamjkv

akg fanboy said:


> obscure newish band+pre order limited edition+located in japan........ I DUNU if I can find that..... google has zero results. I would gladly buy them IF I could find them though lol.


 
 You should check yahoo auction japan and buy through a proxy. I use zen market and it's been pretty good.


----------



## akg fanboy

jamjkv said:


> You should check yahoo auction japan and buy through a proxy. I use zen market and it's been pretty good.


 
 Unfortunately I got zero results, I appreciate your suggestion though so I will keep that website in mind in case it ever pops up


----------



## SomeGuyDude

rhamnetin said:


> This.  Here is a guide to get started.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/official-mechanical-keyboard-guide
> 
> ...


 
  
 Logitech's big problem is they have great tech but bad "feel," if that makes sense. Like yeah, the sensors are awesome and all, but the Razer Deathadder remains the best feeling mouse I've tried.


----------



## Rhamnetin

someguydude said:


> Logitech's big problem is they have great tech but bad "feel," if that makes sense. Like yeah, the sensors are awesome and all, but the Razer Deathadder remains the best feeling mouse I've tried.


 
  
 You mean shape?  That will vary from person to person. Or perhaps you're referring to something else.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

rhamnetin said:


> You mean shape?  That will vary from person to person. Or perhaps you're referring to something else.


 
 Just everything. The scroll wheel, the weight, the button placement, the materials. 
  
 Logitech's stuff feels like toys, especially their high end keyboards. I respect the tech inside them but man I can't get over how unpleasant they all feel to use.


----------



## Music Alchemist

someguydude said:


> Logitech's big problem is they have great tech but bad "feel," if that makes sense. Like yeah, the sensors are awesome and all, but the Razer Deathadder remains the best feeling mouse I've tried.


 


someguydude said:


> Just everything. The scroll wheel, the weight, the button placement, the materials.
> 
> Logitech's stuff feels like toys, especially their high end keyboards. I respect the tech inside them but man I can't get over how unpleasant they all feel to use.


 
  
 I like how reasonably priced it is considering you think it's the best in the world. I thought it was gonna be hundreds of dollars or something. lol


----------



## Rhamnetin

someguydude said:


> Just everything. The scroll wheel, the weight, the button placement, the materials.
> 
> Logitech's stuff feels like toys, especially their high end keyboards. I respect the tech inside them but man I can't get over how unpleasant they all feel to use.


 
  
 They have high end mice (body and buttons), but yes their keyboards suck.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

music alchemist said:


> I like how reasonably priced it is considering you think it's the best in the world. I thought it was gonna be hundreds of dollars or something. lol


 
 Yeah, I mean there are definitely more expensive keyboards out there, but I don't think there's going to be any tangible benefit.
  
 I've seen a lot of reviewers loving the Corsair K95, but speaking personally, the K70 didn't exactly wow me, and since the 95 is just a "more of that" keyboard I'm not really sold.


----------



## akg fanboy

If I was in the market, these would be what I'd go for:
 60%- _Vortex POK3R_
 TKL- _CM masterkeys pro s_
 Full sized- _Corsair strafe mx silent switches _
 General typing- _Das keyboard 4_
 Fastest gaming- _K70 mx speed switches_


----------



## Music Alchemist

someguydude said:


> Yeah, I mean there are definitely more expensive keyboards out there, but I don't think there's going to be any tangible benefit.
> 
> I've seen a lot of reviewers loving the Corsair K95, but speaking personally, the K70 didn't exactly wow me, and since the 95 is just a "more of that" keyboard I'm not really sold.


 
  
 I was replying to your comments on the Razer DeathAdder mouse. It looks pretty cool too.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

music alchemist said:


> I was replying to your comments on the Razer DeathAdder mouse. It looks pretty cool too.


 
 Oh that! Hell yeah. More expensive mice might be necessary for MLG dudes, or people who absolutely need as many macro keys as possible, but the sensor on that thing is all you could possibly need for 95% of us.


----------



## sti23

Console all the way! Just because I'm used to them...


----------



## MuttonChew

I would say the biggest advantage of consoles is the ability for split-screen play. There's nothing like sitting down with a good friend and sharing a great game.
  
 I still vote for PC though.


----------



## Music Alchemist

muttonchew said:


> I would say the biggest advantage of consoles is the ability for split-screen play. There's nothing like sitting down with a good friend and sharing a great game.


 
  
 I was saddened that so many modern games only have online multiplayer without the option of traditional split-screen two player, so even if you have a friend with you, you can't have them play with you.


----------



## Yethal

music alchemist said:


> I was saddened that so many modern games only have online multiplayer without the option of traditional split-screen two player, so even if you have a friend with you, you can't have them play with you.


 

 Loss of split-screen and LAN support was easily top 3 biggest mistakes of the gaming industry.


----------



## lantian

I am a pc guy, just prefer the better visual/audio experience available on pc, only reason I ever got a console was to play uncharted series back on ps3.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

yethal said:


> Loss of split-screen and LAN support was easily top 3 biggest mistakes of the gaming industry.


 
 The loss of split screen sure wasn't. Now when people want to play with friends everyone has to buy an individual copy of the game.


----------



## Rhamnetin

muttonchew said:


> I would say the biggest advantage of consoles is the ability for split-screen play. There's nothing like sitting down with a good friend and sharing a great game.
> 
> I still vote for PC though.


 
  
 As Music Alchemist suggested, split screen is mostly gone.  It's uncommon in console games too, although not as rare as PC.  The only PC games I know of with split screen are the Serious Sam games.
  
 You can still sit down with a friend and play multiplayer on PC, via LAN which requires two PCs and two sets of peripherals (including two displays).  More expensive, but a far better experience, and can support larger amounts of people.


----------



## Yethal

rhamnetin said:


> As Music Alchemist suggested, split screen is mostly gone.  It's uncommon in console games too, although not as rare as PC.  The only PC games I know of with split screen are the Serious Sam games.
> 
> You can still sit down with a friend and play multiplayer on PC, via LAN which requires two PCs and two sets of peripherals (including two displays).  More expensive, but a far better experience, and can support larger amounts of people.


 

 LAN support is mostly gone too. Even games that internally use P2P connectivity still require a listen server inbetween players.


----------



## Rhamnetin

yethal said:


> LAN support is mostly gone too. Even games that internally use P2P connectivity still require a listen server inbetween players.


 
  
 LAN support doesn't seem mostly gone to me.  Maybe it's gone from the Battlefields and Call of Duties of the world, I wouldn't know.  I no longer pay attention to those kinds of games because so many other good things are gone from them.
  
 Some recent multiplayer games I've played include Divinity: Original Sin 2, Divinity: Original Sin Enhanced Edition, Killing Floor 2, all have LAN support.  So does Shadow Warrior 2 I believe, although I could be wrong about this one (I never checked out its multiplayer).  I also play ArmA 3 which is still heavily supported to this day, which has LAN.
  
 So maybe LAN is gone from console focused multiplatform titles, but PC focused multiplayer games still have it.


----------



## Music Alchemist

yethal said:


> Loss of split-screen and LAN support was easily top 3 biggest mistakes of the gaming industry.


 
  
 By the way, I borrowed somebody's Raspberry Pi. It sounded slightly better than my laptop (using a Chord Mojo as DAC/amp with both) but not enough of an improvement for me to bother buying. So I'll wait until I upgrade to a high-end Chord DAC/amp and then eventually get the SOtM sMS-200, which is said to be the best network player, beating ones that cost five figures!
  


rhamnetin said:


> As Music Alchemist suggested, split screen is mostly gone.  It's uncommon in console games too, although not as rare as PC.  The only PC games I know of with split screen are the Serious Sam games.
> 
> You can still sit down with a friend and play multiplayer on PC, via LAN which requires two PCs and two sets of peripherals (including two displays).  More expensive, but a far better experience, and can support larger amounts of people.


 
  
 WipEout HD (futuristic racing game) on PS3 (and even Vita) was so fun to play with split-screen two player. It's being released on PS4 now too.


----------



## Yethal

rhamnetin said:


> LAN support doesn't seem mostly gone to me.  Maybe it's gone from the Battlefields and Call of Duties of the world, I wouldn't know.  I no longer pay attention to those kinds of games because so many other good things are gone from them.
> 
> Some recent multiplayer games I've played include Divinity: Original Sin 2, Divinity: Original Sin Enhanced Edition, Killing Floor 2, all have LAN support.  So does Shadow Warrior 2 I believe, although I could be wrong about this one (I never checked out its multiplayer).  I also play ArmA 3 which is still heavily supported to this day, which has LAN.
> 
> So maybe LAN is gone from console focused multiplatform titles, but PC focused multiplayer games still have it.


 

 Dunno about Divinity, Overwatch has a separate LAN client only used on Blizzard sponsored events, Souls series use P2P and require a listen server. Rainbow Six Siege supports LAN on PC only so it's out of the equation for me until Wine supports it (unlikely) or Linux port is released. (highly unlikely). Insurgency and Rocket League have LAN support so there's that. Aside from those games I don't care that much although the trend to drop LAN support is there nonetheless.
  


music alchemist said:


> By the way, I borrowed somebody's Raspberry Pi. It sounded slightly better than my laptop (using a Chord Mojo as DAC/amp with both) but not enough of an improvement for me to bother buying. So I'll wait until I upgrade to a high-end Chord DAC/amp and then eventually get the SOtM sMS-200, which is said to be the best network player, beating ones that cost five figures!
> 
> 
> WipEout HD (futuristic racing game) on PS3 (and even Vita) was so fun to play with split-screen two player. It's being released on PS4 now too.


 
 Some say Raspberry Pi improves with HiFiBerry+ (S/PDIF output add-on card) and a linear power supply. Unfortunately I wasn't able to test that claim myself but I was very happy with a stock Pi as a network player.


----------



## Rhamnetin

yethal said:


> Dunno about Divinity, Overwatch has a separate LAN client only used on Blizzard sponsored events, Souls series use P2P and require a listen server. Rainbow Six Siege supports LAN on PC only so it's out of the equation for me until Wine supports it (unlikely) or Linux port is released. (highly unlikely). Insurgency and Rocket League have LAN support so there's that. Aside from those games I don't care that much although the trend to drop LAN support is there nonetheless.


 
  
 Source games will probably always have it.  Dark Souls is not surprising, since they are meant primarily for console where LAN gaming is rare.  And what an annoying move by Blizzard for Overwatch.
  
 The trend is not unlike the trend to restrict dedicated servers to paid rentals, like what Battlefield 1 does.  This is even more atrocious if anything, and as with the dropped LAN support it's a trend seen on console focused titles.


----------



## Yethal

rhamnetin said:


> Source games will probably always have it.  Dark Souls is not surprising, since they are meant primarily for console where LAN gaming is rare.  And what an annoying move by Blizzard for Overwatch.
> 
> The trend is not unlike the trend to restrict dedicated servers to paid rentals, like what Battlefield 1 does.  This is even more atrocious if anything, and as with the dropped LAN support it's a trend seen on console focused titles.


 

 EA went even further with BF1. They dropped support for third-party hosting companies and server management software like ProCon. Now the seervers can be rented from EA only and server admins cannot manage the servers remotely and run custom scripts (such as auto-kick).


----------



## Rhamnetin

yethal said:


> EA went even further with BF1. They dropped support for third-party hosting companies and server management software like ProCon. Now the seervers can be rented from EA only and server admins cannot manage the servers remotely and run custom scripts (such as auto-kick).


 
  
 I remember that.  And BF1 players on PC are totally okay with it lol.  Even the ones who understand what they're missing out on.  Multiplayer gaming was so much better 10-15 years ago when the games were 100% moddable and servers 100% customizable, I have such great memories of those times even though I only saw the tail end of it.
  
 A few great multiplayer games retain those capabilities, but many have very few players like Natural Selection 2 (my favorite PvP shooter in almost a decade), Rising Storm, even Insurgency has a small amount of players.


----------



## Yethal

rhamnetin said:


> I remember that.  And BF1 players on PC are totally okay with it lol.  Even the ones who understand what they're missing out on.  Multiplayer gaming was so much better 10-15 years ago when the games were 100% moddable and servers 100% customizable, I have such great memories of those times even though I only saw the tail end of it.
> 
> A few great multiplayer games retain those capabilities, but many have very few players like Natural Selection 2 (my favorite PvP shooter in almost a decade), Rising Storm, even Insurgency has a small amount of players.


 

 Industry was much smaller back then and money didn't affect the decision making process as much. Which is ironic considering how easy it is now for indie developers to publish games compared to 15 years ago.


----------



## Music Alchemist

This is loosely related, so I thought I'd mention it...
  





  
 This is the area to the right of my laptop. No room for a mouse at the moment. I'm gonna have to push everything back to use my mouse at all. It hurts my wrist/hand/fingers a lot less than the touchpad.
  
 I think @Rhamnetin is the only other electrostat freak in this thread.


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> This is loosely related, so I thought I'd mention it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 bigger desk?


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> bigger desk?


 
  
 It's all on a fairly large table that is bigger than most desks. I have no urge to get anything else right now. I can easily move that stuff further back at any time. I would just have to reach further to adjust the volume and so on. Or I could leave the amp where it is and move everything else.


----------



## akg fanboy

music alchemist said:


> It's all on a fairly large table that is bigger than most desks. I have no urge to get anything else right now. I can easily move that stuff further back at any time. I would just have to reach further to adjust the volume and so on. Or I could leave the amp where it is and move everything else.


 
 That must mean you have more equipment than you can handle lol. If you have space to move the other stuff then I guess that works


----------



## Music Alchemist

akg fanboy said:


> That must mean you have more equipment than you can handle lol. If you have space to move the other stuff then I guess that works


 
  
 heh. Read through my profile. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The photo shows less than half of the table. I could put the headphone stand and most of the electronics on or next to that black thing so it's still within reach.


----------



## Digitalis

Yes it seems the days of the old Lan party are pretty much over. At least I have my moment in the sun - beating professional Korean Q3A players 3:1 in 5 straight matches. I'm not sure I could do that again.
  
 I was kind of annoyed that Star citizen won't be getting dedicated servers: it would be kind of awesome to build a small ITX Shuttle PC, and have it set up as a server with an entire galaxy running in it. Elite Dangerous also had its offline play functionality taken out of the game.
  
 I still play ESO PvP*, though there isn't a dedicated Australian/Asia server, so lag can be a big issue. I love the elder scrolls games, even though ESO was developed by Zeni they have done good work with it and kept with the Elder scrolls lore. On release it was the least bug ridden MMORPG experience in a decade. Bioware should be taking notes from their game development team.
  
 * I have given up on Overwatch, the sheer number of underage/immature/idiotic players is profoundly annoying.


----------



## Music Alchemist

All this online multiplayer talk has me thinking about this anime:
  
 https://myanimelist.net/anime/14345/Btooom
  


> Ryouta Sakamoto is unemployed and lives with his mother, his only real achievement being that he is Japan's top player of the popular online video game, "Btooom!" However, his peaceful life is about to change when he finds himself stranded on an island in the middle of nowhere, with a small, green crystal embedded in his left hand and no memory of how he got there. To his shock, someone has decided to recreate the game he is so fond of in real life, with the stakes being life or death.
> 
> Armed with a bag full of unique bombs known as "BIM," the players are tasked with killing seven of their fellow participants to obtain their green crystals, used as proof of their victory, in order to return home. Initially condemning any form of violence, Ryouta is forced to fight when he realizes that many of the other players are not as welcoming as they may seem. Teaming up with Himiko, a fellow _Btooom!_ player who turns out to be his in-game wife, they attempt to get off of the island together, slowly coming closer and closer to the truth behind this contest of death.


 
  
 The fact that the video game is about blowing other players up with bombs _and_ it has the option to marry other players in-game is _hilarious!_


----------



## Yethal

music alchemist said:


> All this online multiplayer talk has me thinking about this anime:
> 
> https://myanimelist.net/anime/14345/Btooom
> 
> ...



So, Battle Royale meets D.U.D.S Hunt meets Fable 2?


----------



## Music Alchemist

yethal said:


> So, Battle Royale meets D.U.D.S Hunt meets Fable 2?


 
  
 heh. When I saw it, I thought: The Hunger Games: Anime Edition. But Battle Royale came out long before that and was a decent movie. I've been meaning to watch the sequel.


----------



## Yethal

music alchemist said:


> heh. When I saw it, I thought: The Hunger Games: Anime Edition. But Battle Royale came out long before that and was a decent movie. I've been meaning to watch the sequel.



There's a sequel? Must watch.


----------



## sti23

lantian said:


> I am a pc guy, just prefer the better visual/audio experience available on pc, only reason I ever got a console was to play uncharted series back on ps3.


 
 Uncharted is the best!!


----------



## lantian

Probably my favorite games ever, next would be withcer 3


----------



## Music Alchemist

I wonder if I should get another PS3 controller so I can use it on my laptop. (Especially for PlayStation ports from Steam.)
  


yethal said:


> There's a sequel? Must watch.


 
  
 Another good Asian live action movie is Oldboy. Way better than the American remake.


----------



## Yethal

music alchemist said:


> I wonder if I should get another PS3 controller so I can use it on my laptop. (Especially for PlayStation ports from Steam.)
> 
> 
> Another good Asian live action movie is Oldboy. Way better than the American remake.


 

 I've seen the Asian Oldboy, I've even read the manga it is based on. A great movie (and a great manga) indeed.


----------



## GivenTheOkiDoke

Pc gamer if I want to play for real. But I grew up on Playstation so I will always enjoy realaxing with a dualshock in my hand. My favorite video game memories were playing Socom with my friends. That game made a lot of people degenerates myself included.


----------



## Rhamnetin

digitalis said:


> Yes it seems the days of the old Lan party are pretty much over.


 
  
 Only if you exclusively play the most recent AAA games, maybe.
  
 Quote:


music alchemist said:


> I wonder if I should get another PS3 controller so I can use it on my laptop. (Especially for PlayStation ports from Steam.)


 
  
 Since you're more comfortable with controllers, go for it.  Any controller that uses a USB connection.


----------



## shaisalem15

pc master race


----------



## Honkymagoo21

I've always been both. Most of my gaming is PC these days but I still have my PS3 hooked up in the bedroom, and my SNES, PS2, and Wii in there too to hook up when I want to play those.
  
 Been playing BF1, Overwatch, and Battlerite on PC lately. Finished Vanquish on PS3 recently and I'm playing Nier (the first one) on PS3 now.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Argh. My mouse is hurting my wrist. Are more expensive ones better in this regard?


----------



## Yethal

music alchemist said:


> Argh. My mouse is hurting my wrist. Are more expensive ones better in this regard?


 

 Not really, it all depends on the shape. $5 mouse might be more comfortable than $100 mouse for some users. What mouse do you use?


----------



## Music Alchemist

yethal said:


> Not really, it all depends on the shape. $5 mouse might be more comfortable than $100 mouse for some users. What mouse do you use?


 
  
 Just a cheapo Insignia NS-PNC5001.


----------



## Yethal

music alchemist said:


> Just a cheapo Insignia NS-PNC5001.


 

 Choosing a comfortable mouse is not an easy task, it's very difficult to eyeball. Probably the best course of action would be to go to a physical store and try a few of them out. Or simply buy a Cyborg R.A.T as these can be customized to any hand size and shape.


----------



## Honkymagoo21

music alchemist said:


> Argh. My mouse is hurting my wrist. Are more expensive ones better in this regard?


 
 I've been using variants of the Logitech MX518 for about 10 years and love them for comfort and ergonomics. The newer ones are the G400 series but they're based off the same model, I think. Usually run about $50. Fairly simple 5-button mouse with on-the-fly DPI buttons, which is more than enough for gaming imo.


----------



## Rhamnetin

yethal said:


> Choosing a comfortable mouse is not an easy task, it's very difficult to eyeball. Probably the best course of action would be to go to a physical store and try a few of them out. Or simply buy a Cyborg R.A.T as these can be customized to any hand size and shape.


 
  
 Such customizable mice are indeed a good place to start.  Aside from this, if you can determine which of these (pictures below) is closer to how you prefer to grip the mouse, we can help you choose one better suited for you.


----------



## Rompe

As a kid I had C64, NES and Sega Megadrive. I got my first PC at my late teens. Have been mostly a PC gamer since. I also play games infrequently with my phone and iPad. The reason I prefer PC over consoles is pretty much listed by Rhamnetin on the first page of this thread.


----------



## Music Alchemist

I think that even if I transitioned to being a hardcore PC gamer, I'd still use portable consoles. There's something special about playing games in the palm of your hand, so to speak, especially now that they're so much more advanced than they used to be.


----------



## ibage

I do have an Xbone to keep in touch with friends. It's also nice to play from bed when I tire of sitting up. I've also got a 3DS, which is nice for something to do on the can. However, I am primarily a PC gamer. Cheaper games, better quality in graphics and sound, mods, and the potential for emulators. PC gaming is much nicer, but I've nothing against the filthy console peasants (just kidding, yall are great).


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I found for best comfort with mouse is to get an L shaped desk and have your hand resting to the side of you rather than in front. Also height please a role.


----------



## Music Alchemist

ibage said:


> I do have an Xbone to keep in touch with friends. It's also nice to play from bed when I tire of sitting up. I've also got a 3DS, which is nice for something to do on the can.


 
  
 Playing 3DS, Vita and PSP in bed was so fun back in the day! I'm sure I'll get them again someday.
  


doctacosmos said:


> I found for best comfort with mouse is to get an L shaped desk and have your hand resting to the side of you rather than in front. Also height please a role.


 
  
 I just tried this. Unfortunately, I don't have enough control when my hand is on the side of the mouse.


----------



## Sencha

I go between the two and while I like both I think of myself as a mouse and keyboard player regardless of platform. To pick though I prefer PC. I feel the experience is more whole. I find with PC I'm happy to play games without thinking about whats coming where as with console there tends to be a lot of focus for me on what's next. And so I tend to go through periods of not playing on console as the latest MP shooter gets a little dry. PC for example I'm currently enjoying some very active BF3 servers. And after that the list is endless about what I could play. As with most things in life I think on balance they are pretty equal. Just have to decide what's important to you. And of course friends should be top of that list. If you have any real world friends that game then get on their format!


----------



## Rhamnetin

sencha said:


> And of course friends should be top of that list. If you have any real world friends that game then get on their format!


 
  
 That was once a minor problem for me (minor because I play mostly single player games).  I play on PC, they played on console.  Solution?  Induct them into PC gaming!


----------



## Music Alchemist

sencha said:


> And of course friends should be top of that list. If you have any real world friends that game then get on their format!


 
  
 Now I'm thinking of the console wars in South Park.
  


rhamnetin said:


> That was once a minor problem for me (minor because I play mostly single player games).  I play on PC, they played on console.  Solution?  Induct them into PC gaming!


 
  
 I used to like taking turns with single player games to turn them into two player. (Sort of.)


----------



## jamjkv

> I used to like taking turns with single player games to turn them into two player. (Sort of.)


 
 I miss those days. Having a few friends over, drinking and taking turns. We did this so many times with GTA.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Here's a pic of my awesome speakers in my crappy room along with what little "computer rig" I have. (Beverages placed there just for fun.)
  

  
 If I ever get into serious PC gaming, I'll already have the speaker side of things taken care of.
  


Spoiler: Why I'm focusing on speakers now






music alchemist said:


> Talk about a 180. I previously said that I preferred the more intimate presentation of headphones. Well, that has changed. Ever since getting JBL LSR305 active studio monitor speakers (now with Samson MS200 stands), I've pretty much lost interest in headphones. Even without doing any room treatments or EQ yet, these sound _many times_ more realistic than any headphone I've heard. (I've owned/heard multiple five figures worth of headphones and other gear.) It often sounds like the instruments are in the room with me. I don't think headphones have more detail; they just make some details more apparent by putting everything right next to your ears. But that's not how the original performance was. Speakers reproduce far more depth and subtlety than headphones ever could. I'm hearing countless details on these speakers that I never noticed before on headphones. I only spent $250 on these and I think they are superior to headphones in every way regardless of price. Can't wait to upgrade to a serious speaker system!


----------



## Rhamnetin

For serious gaming, you might want to get even more speakers and a subwoofer.  Surround sound was the biggest gaming upgrade I've made in years.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> For serious gaming, you might want to get even more speakers and a subwoofer.  Surround sound was the biggest gaming upgrade I've made in years.


 
  
 I'm thinkin' a Dolby Atmos system (real 3D sound) would be pretty epic for gaming.


----------



## Muinarc

music alchemist said:


> Here's a pic of my awesome speakers in my crappy room along with what little "computer rig" I have. (Beverages placed there just for fun.)
> 
> 
> 
> If I ever get into serious PC gaming, I'll already have the speaker side of things taken care of.


 
  
 Is your laptop hinge broken? Surprised it's working looking that detached lol . Have you tried moving your speakers further apart at all? Sometimes adding a few feet of width between them really helps the stage.


----------



## Music Alchemist

muinarc said:


> Is your laptop hinge broken? Surprised it's working looking that detached lol . Have you tried moving your speakers further apart at all? Sometimes adding a few feet of width between them really helps the stage.


 
  
 Yep, it's literally falling apart. I have it resting against a box, as you can see. This overpriced Alienware has served me well for six years despite all the issues. I'm not gonna bother doing anything to fix it and will upgrade to a custom desktop sooner or later.
  
 I tried all the positions in this part of the room and prefer them the way they are now: this exact distance, height, angle, etc. It's a good balance between intimacy and spaciousness. Won't get into room treatments and EQ until I feel the urge...or may just not get around to doing things like that until I get a much nicer speaker system.


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> I'm thinkin' a Dolby Atmos system (real 3D sound) would be pretty epic for gaming.


 
  
 The interesting thing about that is, 3D object oriented sound has existed in PC gaming since the late 1990s.  It never made its way to console gaming until Dolby Atmos enabled games, which are very recent (Battlefield 1 is one of few).  3D sound then essentially died off about ten years ago with the release of Windows Vista, and is now starting to resurface through Atmos (which probably costs far more to license/implement than using the older and probably better method, OpenAL).
  
 So any PC game released between the late 1990s and 2008 or so should have 3D sound, including binaural sound simulation for headphones and stereo/2.1 speakers.  This also includes probably the majority of Unreal Engine 3 games, which was the most used game engine from 2007 until maybe 2013.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> The interesting thing about that is, 3D object oriented sound has existed in PC gaming since the late 1990s.  It never made its way to console gaming until Dolby Atmos enabled games, which are very recent (Battlefield 1 is one of few).  3D sound then essentially died off about ten years ago with the release of Windows Vista, and is now starting to resurface through Atmos (which probably costs far more to license/implement than using the older and probably better method, OpenAL).
> 
> So any PC game released between the late 1990s and 2008 or so should have 3D sound, including binaural sound simulation for headphones and stereo/2.1 speakers.  This also includes probably the majority of Unreal Engine 3 games, which was the most used game engine from 2007 until maybe 2013.


 
  
 Yeah, but I meant real 3D sound, with the speakers literally all around you. (Not a digital simulation that isn't actually 3D.)


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> Yeah, but I meant real 3D sound, with the speakers literally all around you. (Not a digital simulation that isn't actually 3D.)


 
  
 Surround sound then, like I initially suggested, although the extra Atmos speakers wouldn't be used in non-Atmos games.  When more Atmos games come out (ones I care about), I'll get an Atmos receiver and upgrade my 5.1 setup to 5.1.2.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> Surround sound then, like I initially suggested, although the extra Atmos speakers wouldn't be used in non-Atmos games.  When more Atmos games come out (ones I care about), I'll get an Atmos receiver and upgrade my 5.1 setup to 5.1.2.


 
  
 I just want to be clear (for those who are not familiar) that Dolby Atmos places speakers above you as well, so it's 3D, so to speak. It could be considered surround sound, but it's not like most surround sound systems.


----------



## Rhamnetin

music alchemist said:


> I just want to be clear (for those who are not familiar) that Dolby Atmos places speakers above you as well, so it's 3D, so to speak. It could be considered surround sound, but it's not like most surround sound systems.


 
  
 Yes, that's what the third digit specifies.  5.1.2 = a 5.1 setup but with two top speakers in addition.  This combined with the object based spatial sound processing is what makes it work.  I wonder what's next, upward facing speakers mounted below you?


----------



## Music Alchemist

rhamnetin said:


> I wonder what's next, upward facing speakers mounted below you?


 
  
 I was thinking about that, actually. heh


----------



## Yethal

music alchemist said:


> I was thinking about that, actually. heh



There is a 22.2 surround sound standard that places speakers in three layers to simulate height cues.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Blue screen of lame. Windows 10 is by far my favorite Windows operating system, but that darn blue screen randomly appears too often (forcing my computer to restart) and I don't know how to prevent it.
  


yethal said:


> There is a 22.2 surround sound standard that places speakers in three layers to simulate height cues.


 
  
 Looks like those place the speakers at a distance, with some being below. I was thinking of having them directly below, though.


----------



## Rompe

music alchemist said:


> Blue screen of lame. Windows 10 is by far my favorite Windows operating system, but that darn blue screen randomly appears too often (forcing my computer to restart) and I don't know how to prevent it.


 
 Have you diagnosed what's causing it? You need to know the cause to be able to prevent it. Google 'solve bsod' to get some guidande. Check your ram, disks, temperatures, malware etc. Correctly working hardware with malware free and correctly functioning software (drivers+Windows installation) wont cause any bsods. Consider doing a clean Windows install if you think there's some issue in the software.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rompe said:


> Have you diagnosed what's causing it? You need to know the cause to be able to prevent it. Google 'solve bsod' to get some guidande. Check your ram, disks, temperatures, malware etc. Correctly working hardware with malware free and correctly functioning software (drivers+Windows installation) wont cause any bsods. Consider doing a clean Windows install if you think there's some issue in the software.


 
  
 Any number of things could cause it. I don't care enough to do anything about it.


----------



## Digitalis

W10 has a lot of incompatibilities with older hardware - forced obsolescence from micro$oft. you might be better off going to W7 - at least you won't have mirco$oft looking over your shoulder every time you need to change a system setting.


----------



## Music Alchemist

digitalis said:


> W10 has a lot of incompatibilities with older hardware - forced obsolescence from micro$oft. you might be better off going to W7 - at least you won't have mirco$oft looking over your shoulder every time you need to change a system setting.


 
  
 My computer originally came with Windows 7. I got a free upgrade to Windows 10 and love it. I don't mind the few downsides I've noticed.


----------



## ibage

digitalis said:


> W10 has a lot of incompatibilities with older hardware - forced obsolescence from micro$oft. you might be better off going to W7 - at least you won't have mirco$oft looking over your shoulder every time you need to change a system setting.


 
 MS has been aggressively pushing for Windows 10. I wouldn't count on 7 to be active for too much longer (or at least supported).W10 is a pain in the ass at times, especially being so damn commercialized, but ultimately its the safer bet. Most hardware issues have been sorted out by drivers at this point. 
  
 That said, I miss Windows 7 myself. I hate how much advertising and garbage 10 throws down your throat at times.


----------



## Digitalis

ibage said:


> MS has been aggressively pushing for Windows 10. I wouldn't count on 7 to be active for too much longer


 
  
 Microsoft released this fact sheet, stating they will continue support for windows 7 until 2020.


----------



## castleofargh

digitalis said:


> ibage said:
> 
> 
> > MS has been aggressively pushing for Windows 10. I wouldn't count on 7 to be active for too much longer
> ...


 
 supporting 7 for critical updates and pushing for win10 seem to really go hand in hand as they use the updates to annoy the hell out of us until we break. I've spent years without any sort of trouble that I didn't create myself on win7, in the "get win 10 free" year long war, I've had all sorts of problems. the firewall being spammed by the update and spy processes, so I got rid of those, but then widows update itself starting working like crazy while doing nothing and made my 2 computers a good 10° warmer until I gave in and allowed some of the spying crap to be installed. if all those problems are only accidents, they sure happened at the most convenient time. and then we had all the dishonest tricks they pulled that year. automatic upgrade of the OS without asking, unnecessary spyware component flagged as security updates, confusing icons... all that compliment of the updates. there is nothing saying that they won't keep doing that kind of stuff until 2020.
 plus all the things they never cared to update on 7, like bluetooth LE standard to name something potentially related to audio. support can mean a lot of things sadly.


----------



## PeteBrooks

I've been modding PCs since the mid 90s, spent more than I would possibly like to calculate on parts to build the fastest rig (just for the sake of it some cases, hacking old Celeron processors to work in a dual cpu motherboard for example). Games would run like lightening if they could make use of the mods, along with the associated mega cooling needed etc.
  
 I then went on to a career in software engineering which meant sitting at a desk with a variety of computers for many hours a day, the last thing I wanted to do was to sit at a PC again if I wanted to unwind with a video game.
  
 Consoles to me (and I started with a PS1 purely to play Gran Turismo / F1 etc) may well have less visually stunning versions of the same games on a PC, but oddly I prefer using them over my PC. The different user interfaces, quality of the controllers etc disconnect me from the PC world and for me thats a good thing.
  
 Plus, if I feel the need to upgrade then flogging the old one on eBay and getting the latest version is no more than the cost of a mediocre PC graphics card. Game backwards compatibility is an issue, but not being a game hoarder its not a massive issue for me.


----------



## ibage

I kinda get that. My PC is school and work as well. My Xbox is there solely for entertainment purposes. I still like gaming on the PC more, but there is no substitute for playing games on the couch or bed


----------



## Rhamnetin

ibage said:


> I kinda get that. My PC is school and work as well. My Xbox is there solely for entertainment purposes. I still like gaming on the PC more, but there is no substitute for playing games on the couch or bed


 
  
 But of course you can play PC games on the couch or the bed, so that's not an advantage exclusive to consoles.  Steam Big Picture mode is an interface designed for this, and a better interface than the one most consoles provide _and_ you're not limited to Steam games on it (you can launch all your PC games through it).


----------



## ibage

rhamnetin said:


> But of course you can play PC games on the couch or the bed, so that's not an advantage exclusive to consoles.  Steam Big Picture mode is an interface designed for this, and a better interface than the one most consoles provide _and_ you're not limited to Steam games on it (you can launch all your PC games through it).




Yeah. I know this. The last time I tried it however, I had to restart the game several times (New Vegas wasnt the best option for that). It was just more hassle than sliding the disc in and playing

Its merely a matter of convenience in my opinion.


----------



## ousooner15

I prefer console, but there are times I'll get in the mood to game on some old favorites from the PC.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Has anyone else here played Einhänder on PS1? It's a scrolling shooter with 3D graphics that's one of the most challenging games I know of. Even with a near-invincibility GameShark code, I don't think it's possible to beat it without getting blown up countless times. haha. The electronic soundtrack is amazing too. I bought it on CD. It would be epic if this game was ported to PC.
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einh%C3%A4nder


----------



## Music Alchemist




----------



## itzpookiie

Went PC gaming
Playing on max settings, 144hz, 1080p, and surfing/multitasking on a separate screen is the best
Don't miss console gaming at all especially having to pay additional subscription fee on top of my internet bill in order to play online


----------



## Music Alchemist

The images I uploaded (two) in the previous post no longer exist thanks to the site update. Grr.


----------



## ScottFree

Started out as a PC gamer until about say 2010. Now exclusively a console gamer. First PC was a Amiga 500. Earliest game I can remember was Midwinter. First console I played was my brother's PS1 when he would let me, or he wasn't around. First console I ever owned was the Xbox 360 and I currently own the Xbox One.


----------



## Music Alchemist

ScottFree said:


> Started out as a PC gamer until about say 2010. Now exclusively a console gamer. First PC was a Amiga 500. Earliest game I can remember was Midwinter. First console I played was my brother's PS1 when he would let me, or he wasn't around. First console I ever owned was the Xbox 360 and I currently own the Xbox One.



It's interesting to see someone go that route. More often, in this thread, I see people that have switched from console to PC. Anyway, you missed out on so many great console games! When my mom bought me an SNES in the early '90s, it blew my mind.


----------



## Fred Wang

Hi all, just saw that there was a section on video games and thought I would jump in too. 

I'm going to say that about 80% of the time, I'm gaming on the PC and have been for years and years. That being said, I also have had both Nintendo and Sony consoles, and just finished Horizon: Zero Dawn on the PS4. This is probably more to do with the fact that I mostly play games on the PC, but I find that pressing the left stick inward to sprint in games to be pretty tedious on my left hand, and it cramps after a while. I've never had an issue like that on the PC, and I think it's mostly due to muscle memory.

I'm actually a bit curious, looking through the posts before, how many people who are PC gamers also use the PC as their primary music source.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Fred Wang said:


> I've never had an issue like that on the PC, and I think it's mostly due to muscle memory.
> 
> I'm actually a bit curious, looking through the posts before, how many people who are PC gamers also use the PC as their primary music source.



My wrists/hands/fingers have been hurting from PC gaming lately. Need to get a controller for it... lol

I'd bet the majority of members use a PC as their primary music source.


----------



## Music Alchemist

In case this helps anyone:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-connect-a-ps3-controller-to-a-pc/


----------



## Music Alchemist

Pretty interesting!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_video_games

So what's your favorite video game released after 2010?

I might catch some flak for this, but mine is probably Final Fantasy XIII-2. Played it for hundreds of hours on PS3 and would love to try the PC version from Steam sometime. The soundtrack is also phenomenal.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Fred Wang said:


> I'm actually a bit curious, looking through the posts before, how many people who are PC gamers also use the PC as their primary music source.



I would guess many of us.  I'm one of them.  My music system starts with a Gustard U12 connected to my PC via USB, which is connected to my DAC via coaxial (Bel Canto DAC 3).  The DAC feeds my KGSS clone which powers my SR-007. 

The gaming audio setup is completely different, starting with my sound card as the source (Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD) which is connected to an A/V receiver via optical TOSLINK, powering a 5.1 surround setup.  Once I get better front speakers I will just use the speaker setup for music (in 2.1 mode) unless I'm not entirely satisfied with it.



Music Alchemist said:


> Pretty interesting!
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_video_games
> 
> ...



The 2010s has been a far weaker decade for gaming than the 2000s to be sure, but I will have to say it is either SOMA (a horror game) or The Talos Principle (a puzzle game).  The writing quality and thematic depth of both of them make them forces to be reckoned with.  Anyone who thinks gaming cannot be a serious, high quality storytelling medium and works of art needs to play those.

Although if we include remasters/remakes, then my answer is Planescape: Torment - Enhanced Edition which just came out this year.  That's an RPG as well, although a wRPG opposed to a JRPG.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Rhamnetin said:


> The 2010s has been a far weaker decade for gaming than the 2000s to be sure, but I will have to say it is either SOMA (a horror game) or The Talos Principle (a puzzle game).  The writing quality and thematic depth of both of them make them forces to be reckoned with.  Anyone who thinks gaming cannot be a serious, high quality storytelling medium and works of art needs to play those.
> 
> Although if we include remasters/remakes, then my answer is Planescape: Torment - Enhanced Edition which just came out this year.  That's an RPG as well, although a wRPG opposed to a JRPG.



I'm a sucker for JRPGs. They have such great stories too. I rarely make time for gaming nowadays, but I've been replaying Mother 3 (the sequel to my second favorite game EarthBound) lately.


----------



## Malfunkt

I love consoles, I love the idea of them, and making games that squeeze the most out of the hardware (ie. Naughty Dog). Also enjoyed that I don't think I ever ran into a hacker problem, and even if there were it is not even comparable to the issues on certain PC titles. I had both PS3 and then a PS4. 

The big problem, was that the controllers gave me tendinitis. Moving a little stick around with your thumb is just a bad idea. I always end up going back to PC, where especially for FPS the experience IMO is just superior - by a large amount. The mouse just gives you so much finer control. 

And then there is Steam sales (actually some of the Sony sales were pretty good).

[off to play Day of Infamy on PC]


----------



## Music Alchemist (May 4, 2017)

Malfunkt said:


> The big problem, was that the controllers gave me tendinitis. Moving a little stick around with your thumb is just a bad idea. I always end up going back to PC, where especially for FPS the experience IMO is just superior - by a large amount. The mouse just gives you so much finer control.



Hmm. Mice and keyboards do far more damage to me than any controller ever did, and I've owned a good number of the well-known consoles. It's interesting how even something like this can be subjective.

I've been meaning to get a controller (probably another PS3 one) to use on PC. I still have a USB adapter that I used to use with an SNES controller.


----------



## Malfunkt

Music Alchemist said:


> Hmm. Mice and keyboards do far more damage to me than any controller ever did, and I've owned a good number of the well-known consoles. It's interesting how even something like this can be subjective.
> 
> I've been meaning to get a controller (probably another PS3 one) to use on PC. I still have a USB adapter that I used to use with an SNES controller.



Yes, mice can be bad too. I remember I had to stop playing Torchlight II, just too much damn mouse clicking. Also, I spend a fair bit of time on a computer doing graphic design, but I alternate using a Wacom. Using different interfaces is the key to avoiding repetitive stress. 

I do miss comfy couch gaming though


----------



## Digitalis

Wacom tablets have saved me from RSI too. The R.A.T 7 mouse also helped quite a bit. Though I still get wrist strain issues with my Saitek Rhino X55 HOTAS, though strangely I find wearing a pair of finger-less weightlifter bitch gloves eliminate the issue.


----------



## Music Alchemist

I was looking at the PSPgo earlier. Used to have the PSP and PS Vita and loved them. The PSPgo (originally $250 but discontinued) is under $100 now on the used market, which is tempting. There's nothin' like playing games in bed on a small screen! But I have too many other things to do, so I'll have to postpone it...


----------



## Twilight_Link

Well, i used to have PSP 3000 and PSP GO. Go is bit smaller and lightweight, but i don't find it too comfortable when playing games for hours on it. I decided to sell it and get PSP 3000. The only great thing from Go is the save state functionality.


----------



## Music Alchemist

*sigh* Since the site update, so many threads have slowed to a crawl.



Twilight_Link said:


> Well, i used to have PSP 3000 and PSP GO. Go is bit smaller and lightweight, but i don't find it too comfortable when playing games for hours on it. I decided to sell it and get PSP 3000. The only great thing from Go is the save state functionality.



I had one too, as well as a PS Vita. I loved them, but get the feeling I'd prefer the smaller PSPgo in terms of being able to do whatever wherever with it.


----------



## Twilight_Link

Music Alchemist said:


> *sigh* Since the site update, so many threads have slowed to a crawl.
> 
> 
> 
> I had one too, as well as a PS Vita. I loved them, but get the feeling I'd prefer the smaller PSPgo in terms of being able to do whatever wherever with it.



Well, last week i got Vita for such a cheap price. I really know that it is not worth enough to get on 2017, but for me its worth enough for playing games such Persona 4, SNK, and of course SAO. I could not finish Persona 4 on PS2 and that is the main reason for getting Vita.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Twilight_Link said:


> Well, last week i got Vita for such a cheap price. I really know that it is not worth enough to get on 2017, but for me its worth enough for playing games such Persona 4, SNK, and of course SAO. I could not finish Persona 4 on PS2 and that is the main reason for getting Vita.



I will almost certainly get another Vita sooner or later. I didn't mean to imply it was inferior; just larger.

Patiently waiting for the day when Sony makes all PlayStation titles available digitally and playable on Vita and PS4 like they promised years ago. I see conflicting information on whether they will keep that promise.

SAO, eh? I've seen all the anime, but haven't played any of the games.


----------



## Twilight_Link

Music Alchemist said:


> I will almost certainly get another Vita sooner or later. I didn't mean to imply it was inferior; just larger.
> 
> Patiently waiting for the day when Sony makes all PlayStation titles available digitally and playable on Vita and PS4 like they promised years ago. I see conflicting information on whether they will keep that promise.
> 
> SAO, eh? I've seen all the anime, but haven't played any of the games.



BTW, i got the FAT one and i noticed that its harder to change the battery. You might need to look at Vita TV, its probably cheaper.

Sony won't make any further move for Vita, The firmware is already jail broken and the only thing that they do until now is only releasing new firmware.

You should try Hollow Realization and Fragment. Both of them are great and fun. Its typical JRPG with action battle.


----------



## kman1211

I'm a PC gamer mainly, always been a bit of both PC and console gaming. But I got out of the large consoles around 2008 when I made my first good gaming computer. I still had handhelds though. Currently not too interested in handhelds because they don't have the game library they used to.


----------



## karloil (May 25, 2017)

for me i would say depending on the game - if i need more controls (strategy, simulation) i'd go with a pc. But for RPG, definitely console. But currently spending most of my time with the Switch!


----------



## haralds12

I have played both since the mid 90s. I preferte console games when im hagning with other people. But for real gaming the PC allways winns. But on the other hand Im an old CS player....


----------



## Nidus123

PC mainly + PS4 exclusives ... damn those Japanese ...Y U NO RELEASE TO PC !


----------



## liqz

PC for the most part but there are some console exclusives that looks good.


----------



## L0rdGwyn

Like others on here, I am PC mainly but have a PS4 for console exclusives.  In case it wasn't obvious from my avatar, I am a huge fan of the Souls series; I bought my PS4 exclusively for Bloodborne, which was well worth it in my opinion!  Love that game, took that one all the way to platinum.  Also played Destiny on PS4 and will play the FFVII remake if it ever comes out.  I built my gaming PC three or four years ago for a) higher frame rate/resolution b) ability to play nearly an unlimited catalog of legacy titles!  So many emulators out there, you can play console games all the way up to the Wii (if you're willing to setup Dolphin with the Wiimote).  No doubt consoles are convenient for plug-n-play and chillin' on the couch.  Sometimes optimizing a game on PC can be a bit of a pain, but it is a labor of love


----------



## Dipesh

Both.. I have been a pc gamer for more then 20 years.. But recently because of certain exclusive games on ps4.. I had to bend my knee to ps4. Bloodborne, souls games and last of us are my absolute favorite games. I haven't been disappointed so far.. But if games are multi platform I always pick pc.


----------



## Music Alchemist

I've been so tempted to buy a PSPgo to download and play PlayStation games I bought years ago...but it would take up far too much of my time. I'm planning on moving sometime in the next few months and have so much work to do revolving around that. I already spent...I dunno how much time playing through Mother 3 (EarthBound sequel) again not too long ago.

I did a bit of research into the most comfortable mouse and plan on buying that sooner or later...but I doubt it would fix the issues I'm having with my poor hands.


----------



## Music Alchemist

The thread has surpassed 10,000 views now. Thanks to everyone for contributing.

I think I may do some PC gaming while hanging out at my brother's trailer soon...


----------



## Planetic

To be honest.. 
i tried the PS4 but it didn´t matter which game it was, i never really felt the urge to get to the couch and play it... 
If i play PC i can watch a stream on the other screen or have some article open to read if I´m in an loading screen thats just so much more comfortable


----------



## Music Alchemist

Planetic said:


> i tried the PS4 but it didn´t matter which game it was, i never really felt the urge to get to the couch and play it...



I think many modern gamers are unfairly turned off by consoles due to how different they are nowadays, and may never get to experience the magic of the classics like SNES and PS1.


----------



## Wyville

Planetic said:


> To be honest..
> i tried the PS4 but it didn´t matter which game it was, i never really felt the urge to get to the couch and play it...
> If i play PC i can watch a stream on the other screen or have some article open to read if I´m in an loading screen thats just so much more comfortable


I know what you mean and it takes some getting used to. I switched from PC to PS3 and later PS4, but kept a desk-based setup for years because I was so used to it. I only switched to my TV recently and I still miss sitting at my desk, although I never had a multi-screen setup for my PC.

I still miss a gaming PC, but now do prefer the PS4 just because it is far more stable and easy to use. The one thing I really miss is good TRS and simulator games. In a couple of weeks Cities Skylines is coming to PS4 and I am very curious about playing it. I know it will be a significant compromise, but if I had the money to spare for a PC, I would be more tempted to buy myself some TOTL IEMs.


----------



## swallace

Both. My RL friends play on console exclusively, so if they all switched to PC I probably would only play on PC.


----------



## loki993

I play 90 percent FPS games and almost exclusively on PC. I have a PS3 that I played for a while when I don't really have to money to build a proper gaming computer but once I did the PS3 because a glorified media center. In fact I've wanted a PS4 or xbox one since they were released but I haven't gotten one because basically I haven't been able to justify the price for how much I would probably use one.


----------



## Music Alchemist

My brother used to be a console gamer, but now he only plays games on his tablet PC.

On the topic of console prices...older consoles cost next to nothing now and are a much better value than new ones.


----------



## FlyingWing

It's gonna be a lot of fun for Console-Games when in mid 2018 emulators for Xone and PS4 will start emerging in the ryzen-overflooded PC-sector- 
don't get me wrong, please, I do not prefer PC or Console as I have used and own both, the problem is just that we will witness the problem of piracy completely destroying the Console-sector until 2021.


----------



## Music Alchemist

FlyingWing said:


> It's gonna be a lot of fun for Console-Games when in mid 2018 emulators for Xone and PS4 will start emerging in the ryzen-overflooded PC-sector-
> don't get me wrong, please, I do not prefer PC or Console as I have used and own both, the problem is just that we will witness the problem of piracy completely destroying the Console-sector until 2021.



What happens in 2021?


----------



## CaveManta

Music Alchemist said:


> What happens in 2021?


The gap between PC and console will shrink further and further...until there's no difference! D=


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Just picked up a PS4 not too long ago (had the Xbone for a long time now) and I love Bloodborne!! I never got into PC gaming since the PC's I have been around growing up were never anything special in regards to power and graphics cards. I think PC gaming is totally the way to go though if you have the scratch for a  decent comp. I just really hope there is more cross compatibility games between PC and consoles. I think that would open up more possibilities from a game development standpoint.


----------



## Obukhov

MTMECraig said:


> Just picked up a PS4 not too long ago (had the Xbone for a long time now) and I love Bloodborne!! I never got into PC gaming since the PC's I have been around growing up were never anything special in regards to power and graphics cards. I think PC gaming is totally the way to go though if you have the scratch for a  decent comp. I just really hope there is more cross compatibility games between PC and consoles. I think that would open up more possibilities from a game development standpoint.



Oh, yeah. Bloodborne is fantastic. My favourite title from “souls series”)


----------



## kvzrock

I actually have fond memories of when my PS4 was just a Bloodborne box. Also my favorite Souls game.


----------



## uoods

Which side does Steam Link fall on?


----------



## Rhamnetin

uoods said:


> Which side does Steam Link fall on?



PC master race. Ain't nothing a console can do that a PC can't do better.


----------



## grantman102002

Rhamnetin said:


> PC master race. Ain't nothing a console can do that a PC can't do better.



You're not wrong, although there are some sports games I enjoy that never get released on PC. The biggest reason I continue to return to playing my Xbox one, despite having a nice PC, is to play with my friends. None of my friends have a gaming PC. Pretty lame, I know...


----------



## Rhamnetin

grantman102002 said:


> You're not wrong, although there are some sports games I enjoy that never get released on PC. The biggest reason I continue to return to playing my Xbox one, despite having a nice PC, is to play with my friends. None of my friends have a gaming PC. Pretty lame, I know...



Yeah, I would just try to get those people into PC gaming. Show them first hand. That's what I've done, as I want nothing to do with gaming on consoles. I consider gaming with actual friends on console to be less worthy of my time than gaming alone or gaming with people I don't know in person on PC, but thankfully I have the best of both worlds in that regard.


----------



## grantman102002

Rhamnetin said:


> Yeah, I would just try to get those people into PC gaming. Show them first hand. That's what I've done, as I want nothing to do with gaming on consoles. I consider gaming with actual friends on console to be less worthy of my time than gaming alone or gaming with people I don't know in person on PC, but thankfully I have the best of both worlds in that regard.


Yeah, guess I will have to start converting them. I am putting together another PC out of used parts, maybe one of my friends will buy it and I can get the process started...


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

grantman102002 said:


> You're not wrong, although there are some sports games I enjoy that never get released on PC. The biggest reason I continue to return to playing my Xbox one, despite having a nice PC, is to play with my friends. None of my friends have a gaming PC. Pretty lame, I know...


I totally get this.. It was sadly the same case with me.

I wish that I had gotten into PC gaming though. (not like I can't but all my friend base is on Xbone)


----------



## Music Alchemist

Hmm. I've never heard of people gaming on a PC with traditional multiplayer like consoles have. Can anyone link me to examples involving a single PC and multiple players sitting next to each other? It can be keyboards or more console-like controllers.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Music Alchemist said:


> Hmm. I've never heard of people gaming on a PC with traditional multiplayer like consoles have. Can anyone link me to examples involving a single PC and multiple players sitting next to each other? It can be keyboards or more console-like controllers.



You mean split-screen, yeah. Now that you mention it, I think there are fewer split-screen games on PC than on all consoles combined. Every Serious Sam game has it, I think at least one of the Borderlands games has it too, and there are a few other popular examples which I don't currently remember since I consider split-screen multiplayer to be terrible. Sharing a screen = less screen space, and if it's versus then you have players looking at each other's screens. For close proximity multiplayer with friends, nothing beats LAN gaming (everyone puts their gaming PC on the same network and joins a LAN-only server).


----------



## Music Alchemist

Rhamnetin said:


> For close proximity multiplayer with friends, nothing beats LAN gaming (everyone puts their gaming PC on the same network and joins a LAN-only server).



So it requires multiple PCs?

Is there any way to do it with a single PC and multiple monitors?

Which types of games are compatible with this and which are not?


----------



## Deftone

I used to be a dedicated pc gamer but became obsessed with the best graphics and high frame rates, over time I started to enjoy pc gaming less and less until it completely lost its appeal. 

Nintendo put the fun back in gaming for me and now this is where I reside with a Switch, WiiU, 3DS and GameCube. I haven’t enjoyed playing games this much since I was a child.


----------



## Music Alchemist (Nov 27, 2017)

Deftone said:


> I used to be a dedicated pc gamer but became obsessed with the best graphics and high frame rates, over time I started to enjoy pc gaming less and less until it completely lost its appeal.
> 
> Nintendo put the fun back in gaming for me and now this is where I reside with a Switch, WiiU, 3DS and GameCube. I haven’t enjoyed playing games this much since I was a child.



Hey there, buddy! Glad to see ya here.

As you probably noticed, I've always been a console gamer, without much PC gaming experience, but I plan on focusing on PC eventually. (But still use consoles for exclusive titles and such.)

Nintendo consoles I've owned: NES, SNES, N64, GameCube, Wii, GBASP, 3DS

You should really check out the classic SNES games if you haven't already. A few of my faves are EarthBound, The Legend Of Zelda: A Link To The Past, Final Fantasy VI (originally released as Final Fantasy III in the US), the Donkey Kong Country trilogy, Killer Instinct, and Mega Man X. You can get many of them in digital format on modern Nintendo consoles.

And some of my favorites on other consoles:
GameCube: Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (remake of the PS1 game Metal Gear Solid)
Wii: The Legend Of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Game Boy Advance: Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
3DS: The Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina Of Time 3D (remaster of the N64 game)

I think I enjoy PlayStation more than Nintendo overall. (Had PS1, PS3, PSP, and PS Vita.)


----------



## Rhamnetin (Nov 27, 2017)

Music Alchemist said:


> So it requires multiple PCs?
> 
> Is there any way to do it with a single PC and multiple monitors?
> 
> Which types of games are compatible with this and which are not?



LAN multiplayer requires separate PCs yes. As I said, that simply refers to connecting everyone's PC to the same local area network (and typically subnet) and joining a locally hosted LAN-only server that is not connected to the internet. Basically online multiplayer but not over the internet, just over a local network (thus virtually no lag). This is the best way to do close proximity multiplayer, far better than split-screen since you aren't sharing screens (though technically you can with a picture-in-picture display lol but nobody does this) and you can get a little bit more elbow room.

Here is a more typical looking LAN:







Though when I've done LAN gaming, we were all in different rooms in my house.

All PC game tournaments are LANs. You've probably seen them in photos like this one:






Technically every PC game that lets you host your own server supports LAN multiplayer, so that is probably 99% of multiplayer games on PC. The exceptions are modern AAA garbage like Battlefield 1 and their rent-a-server only model, which is utterly disgusting. Nobody should pay those studios.



Deftone said:


> I used to be a dedicated pc gamer but became obsessed with the best graphics and high frame rates, over time I started to enjoy pc gaming less and less until it completely lost its appeal.
> 
> Nintendo put the fun back in gaming for me and now this is where I reside with a Switch, WiiU, 3DS and GameCube. I haven’t enjoyed playing games this much since I was a child.



You should check and see the state of Wii U emulators on PC. I know for a fact that PC (Dolphin emulator) plays GameCube and Wii games far better than the actual Nintendo systems, in every way.


----------



## Deftone

Rhamnetin said:


> LAN multiplayer requires separate PCs yes. As I said, that simply refers to connecting everyone's PC to the same local area network (and typically subnet) and joining a locally hosted LAN-only server that is not connected to the internet. Basically online multiplayer but not over the internet, just over a local network (thus virtually no lag). This is the best way to do close proximity multiplayer, far better than split-screen since you aren't sharing screens (though technically you can with a picture-in-picture display lol but nobody does this) and you can get a little bit more elbow room.
> 
> Here is a more typical looking LAN:
> 
> ...



I know about the emulators but I’d rather play them on the oringinal consoles, like I said I don’t care for graphics any more and my pc hasn’t been  turned on for months. The reason iv grown to love Nintendo so much is because you get so many solid well crafted games that are a lot of fun, the development staff are masterful in this respect.

Cheers


----------



## Deftone

Music Alchemist said:


> Hey there, buddy! Glad to see ya here.
> 
> As you probably noticed, I've always been a console gamer, without much PC gaming experience, but I plan on focusing on PC eventually. (But still use consoles for exclusive titles and such.)
> 
> ...



Hey, iv been looking in to getting an SNES classic to play the games I’ve missed out on during my younger years. I’ll check out those others you mentioned too!


----------



## Music Alchemist

Eh. Multiplayer with separate screens (and worse, with players not next to each other) ruins the entire personal connection I'd want with my fellow players. I prefer traditional multiplayer, which is all but dead now.



Deftone said:


> Hey, iv been looking in to getting an SNES classic to play the games I’ve missed out on during my younger years. I’ll check out those others you mentioned too!



You don't necessarily need to get an old console since many of the games are available as digital downloads for modern consoles now.

The downside (at least with my old Wii) is that, unlike PlayStation, the games are not connected to an account; instead, they are connected to that particular console, so if you sell it, you normally can't play those digital games again unless you repurchase them on a different console. This may have changed for newer Nintendo consoles, however. Hopefully they don't screw over their customers like they used to.

I love the fact that I can download and play all the digital games and content I bought years ago on most modern PlayStation consoles. (PS3, PS Vita, PSP...but PS4 is more restricted in what type of content you can use on it.)


----------



## Rhamnetin (Nov 27, 2017)

Music Alchemist said:


> Eh. Multiplayer with separate screens (and worse, with players not next to each other) ruins the entire personal connection I'd want with my fellow players. I prefer traditional multiplayer, which is all but dead now.



Did you see those photos? Everyone is right next to each other. I'm surprised you'd rather share a screen than sit right next to each other and use your own and enjoy the real estate.

Though I'm not the type who likes to game on headphones, so I actually prefer LAN with me being in my own room with my 5.1 surround setup, communicating via VOIP, and I would want everyone else to have their own banging surround system too.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Rhamnetin said:


> Did you see those photos? Everyone is right next to each other. I'm surprised you'd rather share a screen than sit right next to each other and use your own and enjoy the real estate.



That's completely different than sitting on a couch with friends and sharing a screen. Sharing the screen lets you share powerful emotions that you wouldn't necessarily get when using separate screens. You get to watch the other players play. Plus there are games where everything is on one screen anyway.


----------



## illram

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I was REALLY wanting that case myself, but the availability is so random. I would love it though. Just stick a nice i5/i7 with a 1080ti and call it a day. That or the Caselabs Bulletcase BH2 or BH4. But that too has sporadic availability.



So, something very close to the Dan A4, the Ghost S1, just released on Kickstarter today. I went in for one. (I am not affiliated with them at all, just like the case.) If you missed the A4, or just like sexy looking mini-ITX cases, this is a good substitute (might even be better.)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/louqe/ghost-s1-mkii/description#


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

illram said:


> So, something very close to the Dan A4, the Ghost S1, just released on Kickstarter today. I went in for one. (I am not affiliated with them at all, just like the case.) If you missed the A4, or just like sexy looking mini-ITX cases, this is a good substitute (might even be better.)
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/louqe/ghost-s1-mkii/description#



Yeah I saw it today on JayzTwoCents channel.

I have a Fractal Meshify C case for my PC (still not completed). I figured I'm ok with a mid tower for home. I want small form factor more for a transportable rig which I don't really have a strong need for right now, but would like.

Something with a handle though, like the Lian Li TU200, but more current.


----------



## illram (Nov 30, 2017)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah I saw it today on JayzTwoCents channel.
> 
> I have a Fractal Meshify C case for my PC (still not completed). I figured I'm ok with a mid tower for home. I want small form factor more for a transportable rig which I don't really have a strong need for right now, but would like.
> 
> Something with a handle though, like the Lian Li TU200, but more current.



The Ghost S1 folks mentioned in the KS comments they will be making a number of different "tophats" and "bottomhats" accessories if the campaign is successful, and they specifically mentioned a handle. (Usual caveat of "things Kickstarters say" applies obviously..)


----------



## Whazzzup (Nov 30, 2017)

I’m addicted to battle supremacy other wise known as tank on my iMac . I like the head to head action, folks just rage and rage. I have a ps4 and strangely don’t use it much, find the control tricky.
Addicted so much I think I have repetitive stress injury from my mouse on my right tricep


----------



## Music Alchemist (Nov 30, 2017)

Whazzzup said:


> I have a ps4 and strangely don’t use it much, find the control tricky.



Hmm. The PS3 controller was the most intuitive for me, and PS4 is mostly the same. But I've been a console gamer for decades.

I haven't gotten used to using a keyboard as a controller, and you can't do many things with a typical keyboard. (Like precise three-dimensional control over movement of both characters and cameras with the dual joysticks of a PS3 controller.)


----------



## Whazzzup

Like anything if i stuck it out long enough id get the subtleties of the x and y axis control, i tend to overcompensate. So wsda for up down left and right are easy for me. except my right tricep thats f^%d


----------



## Music Alchemist

Whazzzup said:


> Like anything if i stuck it out long enough id get the subtleties of the x and y axis control, i tend to overcompensate. So wsda for up down left and right are easy for me. except my right tricep thats f^%d



I suppose that makes things simpler, but it can't work for games with more precise joystick features like Final Fantasy XIII-2...which was later released on PC as well. I guess some PC gamers are using some sort of controller that gives them more precision. I think this was discussed earlier in this thread, but I didn't bother remembering.


----------



## Rhamnetin

illram said:


> The Ghost S1 folks mentioned in the KS comments they will be making a number of different "tophats" and "bottomhats" accessories if the campaign is successful, and they specifically mentioned a handle. (Usual caveat of "things Kickstarters say" applies obviously..)



Very interesting case. In the meantime though, I'm going to go with one of the absolute smallest ITX cases I can find that can fit a full sized GPU, for my secondary PC (which won't be used primarily for gaming but whatever). The Sentry is probably the smallest:

http://zaber.com.pl/sentry/

But that's too hard to acquire. So I'll have to go with a Fractal Node 202 or something from Silverstone.


----------



## illram

Rhamnetin said:


> Very interesting case. In the meantime though, I'm going to go with one of the absolute smallest ITX cases I can find that can fit a full sized GPU, for my secondary PC (which won't be used primarily for gaming but whatever). The Sentry is probably the smallest:
> 
> http://zaber.com.pl/sentry/
> 
> But that's too hard to acquire. So I'll have to go with a Fractal Node 202 or something from Silverstone.



Yeah the Sentry is a great case. Liters wise I think it's about the size of the Dan A4, but when you get down to the 7L-ish area it's really about the console footprint vs. shoebox footprint preference really. If I had not already bought the Dan case (2 of them! what is wrong with me) I'd have probably also gone for the Sentry. Other than headphones, good looking mini-ITX cases are my other guilty pleasure...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd have bought the Corsair 380t if they kept making it. Now it's a chore trying to hunt one down for a reasonable price.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Dec 2, 2017)

Have you fellow PC gamers ever added up the total cost of your PC build, including all peripherals and A/V components? You might be surprised if you don't buy everything at once. My WIP build (all parts ordered, waiting on a few) is rather scary... $6,874.40. Not all bought at once but still.


----------



## illram

Like, everything connected to the PC? I have one PC in my living room hooked up to an OLED TV, SoundBlaster X7 and HD800S, so that one would add up to a pretty penny. There will be a Realiser A16 in there next year also...


----------



## Music Alchemist

Rhamnetin said:


> Have you fellow PC gamers ever added up the total cost of your PC build, including all peripherals and A/V components? You might be surprised if you don't buy everything at once. My WIP build (all parts ordered, waiting on a few) is rather scary... $7,373.40. Not all bought at once but still.



Total cost including stuff I no longer own? If I use the original MSRPs, it would be multiple five figures worth of audio equipment...but I haven't done anything fancy on the PC side yet.

As you may recall, I only have an Alienware M11x R2 laptop. Although it has good specs (quad core i7 processor, 8 GB RAM, etc.), it's literally falling apart at the hinges. Not a good value either...originally paid $1,400 for it. I'm sure I could get a pretty nice custom desktop for that much that would be vastly better.

Oh, and I'd say I'm not a qualified PC gamer yet since I don't do PC gaming all that often...









illram said:


> There will be a Realiser A16 in there next year also...



Can't wait until I eventually try that! It's obviously impossible to fully replicate the experience of listening to loudspeakers with headphones, but I'm sure it will make it a lot closer.


----------



## Rhamnetin (Dec 2, 2017)

illram said:


> Like, everything connected to the PC? I have one PC in my living room hooked up to an OLED TV, SoundBlaster X7 and HD800S, so that one would add up to a pretty penny. There will be a Realiser A16 in there next year also...



Yes, literally everything connected (and also the OS), but only the stuff used for gaming. Let's hear your price, especially with the Realiser factored in haha.

@Music Alchemist - Yeah, gaming laptops cost way more apples to apples than a desktop. More than double even.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Rhamnetin said:


> Yes, literally everything connected, but only the stuff used for gaming.



Hmm. I'm currently using the following system for both music and gaming:

passive floorstanding speakers: Klipsch RP-250F
power amp: Behringer KM750
passive preamp: Schiit SYS
audio interface: Behringer UCA202

Not counting the laptop, it's a little under $1,000 retail, but the price I paid was significantly lower since I bought the speakers used.

You probably remember that earlier this year I was using an (originally) $1,800 DAC (Chord 2Qute) with $300 speakers (JBL LSR305). That was a foolish combo. I downgraded to a cheapo DAC but upgraded the speakers and am getting the best sound I've had so far. (And that includes much more expensive headphones. Even the four STAX systems I had sound like a cheap toy in comparison.)

Really excited to delve further into the world of speakers. I believe you settled on the Fluance speakers we discussed some time ago?

I only game occasionally nowadays. Played through Final Fantasy VI a few months ago. Still need to play through the PC remaster of Final Fantasy VII (still my favorite video game of all time), which I have but have barely spent time on.


----------



## illram (Dec 2, 2017)

Rhamnetin said:


> Yes, literally everything connected (and also the OS), but only the stuff used for gaming. Let's hear your price, especially with the Realiser factored in haha.



Here goes:
PC: $2419.70
SoundBlaster X7: $299
HD800S: $800 (used, I think that's how much I paid?)
Xbox 360 controller+wireless dongle: $45 (MSRP when bought)
2x external HD's: $200
2x Polk Monitor70's: $348 (when bought 4 years ago, used sometimes, I dislike them now)
LG OLED65E6P: $5,434 (WAY cheaper now)
HDMI/optical/USB hub and various USB cables: ~$60

Total: $9,605.7

With Realiser at pre-release price (and minus X7):
$10,906.70

We are in divorce territory if my wife ever figures that out.  Although she loves the TV so much I think I'd ultimately survive. (It's mainly the headphones she'd throw out the window...) It's basically our living room entertainment center, which some people blow way more on, so I don't feel _too _bad. Just a little...

Oops forgot G602 mouse and wireless keyboard... let's call it $75 on top. Controller, KB/Mouse are all used depending on the game. Usually Xbox controller + mouse for FPS, controller for everything else. KB+mouse for Civ IV...


----------



## Vilhelm (Dec 9, 2017)

Yo. I'm _both_ a PC _and_ a console gamer. Crazy right? My first console was a NES 8-bit and my first PC was a 286, it had no windows yet so games had to be launched thru DOS. ^^ 

My PC is now very much outdated but suits my needs until the update bug bites me again:
FX-8350@4.2ghz, GTX 560 TI(been looking to replace this and return to full AMD since my 7970 broke), Xonar DG Soundcard, 8GB RAM, some SSD's.
On PC I play CS:GO (AK WIZARD @ Steam) and Hearthstone (ask if you wanna check out some of my crazy decks)  I'm also looking to play on that official Vanilla WoW server once it's released.

On my Xbox One S I currently play Forza Horizon 3, Overwatch, Skyrim Special edition and Call of Duty MW2 remastered.

On both devices I use the DT770 Pro 80 ohm and it's so great for gaming I keep recommending it  just need to find some solution for using mic on xbox while using the DT770's...

By the way anyone else notice how good SQ the xbox one has?


----------



## meringo

I'm down to a 4790k/1080TI rig for most everything and a Nintendo switch for Mariokart and Splatoon.

Couldn't be happier... well, my PC monitor could support HDR, but that will come with time.


----------



## Music Alchemist

I've been playing The Legend Of Zelda: A Link To The Past on my laptop lately. Brings back so many fond memories of my childhood.


----------



## Obukhov

Yeah, Zelda - system seller of Nintendo Switch. The best game of 2018, i think.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Obukhov said:


> Yeah, Zelda - system seller of Nintendo Switch. The best game of 2018, i think.



I never owned the Wii U or Switch and haven't played any of the newest Zelda games.

The newest Zelda games I have played are Skyward Sword on Wii and Ocarina Of Time 3D on 3DS.


----------



## Obukhov

New Zelda and Mario Odyssey - are awesome, u should play it, bro


----------



## CyberAmplified

PC gaming all the way. Much more expensive to get into, but pays off in dividends. Mostly in the increased enjoyment and impressiveness but even more in computer experience and a career if you do that sort of thing with games.
Have my custom-built PC, been going strong for 3 years. Runs just as fast as when I built it. All those computers you buy in the store (unless you spend a fortune), last 6-7 months and slow down to a crawl. Poor 2.5" hdd


----------



## Boogee134

Obukhov said:


> Yeah, Zelda - system seller of Nintendo Switch. The best game of 2018, i think.



l liked it. But I think it's a little bit overrated. The story was weak and the ending disappointing. The experience was great, but that's about it. I gave it a 8.7 (still great).


----------



## Growler

PC all the way man!!!! You just can't beat the flexiblity on hardware and rendering quality.


----------



## saddleup

Growler said:


> PC all the way man!!!! You just can't beat the flexiblity on hardware and rendering quality.



Yes This.  My rig is far from top of the line and it provides a great 1080p image on my 60" LED display.  PC game machines don't need to cost an arm and a leg to give graphics qualities that rival the latest consoles.  I personally don't feel any urgency to upgrade to a 4K compatible system.


----------



## raf1919

Have both but always keep coming back to ps4. Just more comfortable to lay on couch and play than sit at desk. Plus on PC I still would use a controller so I'm not true pc gsmer could never get used to keyboard and mouse


----------



## saddleup

My game PC is part of my home theater.  I use controllers and keyboard and mouse.  Depends on the game.  All from my couch.


----------



## raf1919

saddleup said:


> My game PC is part of my home theater.  I use controllers and keyboard and mouse.  Depends on the game.  All from my couch.


 
i have 2 toddlers and anything with lights and buttons is like red meat to lion.   One day i hope to have a setup like yours too.


----------



## steph280

I started with a console I'd bet many of you have never heard of before:  Sears Tele Games 2600.  (I actually still have it in storage)
It's basically a rebadged Atari 2600 which I'm sure some of you heard before.
Then I went on to Intellivision, Colecovision, Nintendo, NEC Supergrafix, then several iteration from the Playstation family.

But now I play everything on PC.  First person games just feels better to me with mouse and keyboard control.

And 2 years ago I built a dedicated PC for VR use, and have been having a blast with HTC Vive ever since.  It's the future of gaming IMO.


----------



## canthearyou

Well, my less than 5 month old Xbox One X crapped out on me the other day. It's off to Microscam for repair then it's being sold. Luckily I have the superior PS4 Pro. I should have never strayed from Sony.


----------



## cheungbe

What's SFF PC case are people buying these days? Should be able to house a 1080. Like the sentry but seems difficult to get your hands on.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig (Mar 5, 2018)

canthearyou said:


> Well, my less than 5 month old Xbox One X crapped out on me the other day. It's off to Microscam for repair then it's being sold. Luckily I have the superior PS4 Pro. I should have never strayed from Sony.


dude thats horrible.. less then 5 months is really bad. knock on wood I have no issues and have owned mine a couple months after launch. I hope you get taken care of with no problems.

Edit- btw, I had 2 360's get the red ring of death. That was so annoying back in the day.


----------



## canthearyou

MTMECraig said:


> dude thats horrible.. less then 5 months is really bad. knock on wood I have no issues and have owned mine a couple months after launch. I hope you get taken care of with no problems.
> 
> Edit- btw, I had 2 360's get the red ring of death. That was so annoying back in the day.



I was on the phone with Microsoft tech support when it bricked.

I had a 360 back in the day. It rrod 3 times in one year. I swore I'd never own another Microsoft product.


----------



## raf1919

canthearyou said:


> Well, my less than 5 month old Xbox One X crapped out on me the other day. It's off to Microscam for repair then it's being sold. Luckily I have the superior PS4 Pro. I should have never strayed from Sony.



I learned that lesson with my xbox 360..  my first and only xbox.  I've had ps1 ps2 ps3 ps4, ps4pro never any issues.


----------



## canthearyou

raf1919 said:


> I learned that lesson with my xbox 360..  my first and only xbox.  I've had ps1 ps2 ps3 ps4, ps4pro never any issues.



Right there with you! Never a hiccup with PlayStation. But I wanted to see what "The Most Powerful Console" was about. Definitely not worth the extra cash over the Sony. Plus the game line-up sucks! Although I did enjoy streaming 4k Netflix with Dolby Atmos.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

raf1919 said:


> I learned that lesson with my xbox 360..  my first and only xbox.  I've had ps1 ps2 ps3 ps4, ps4pro never any issues.


my stupid friends were determined to buy the xbox one. Since the majority of gaming I do is online with them it funneled me into getting xbox one... I wanted to get a ps4 (have one now to play the exclusives though). In the end I should have just gotten new friends.


----------



## raf1919

MTMECraig said:


> my stupid friends were determined to buy the xbox one. Since the majority of gaming I do is online with them it funneled me into getting xbox one... I wanted to get a ps4 (have one now to play the exclusives though). In the end I should have just gotten new friends.


Hahaha


----------



## Dorokun

Played on PS1, GameBoy Advance SP, PS2, PSP, 3DS, and PC of course, throughout my childhood until my teen years. Now i don't even know where my PS1, Gameboy and PS2 is. PSP and 3DS broke and couldn't be bothered to fix them. Avid PC gamer now that plays mostly 1-2 free games. I do play games on my android phone too, but usually I'd get bored of it in 1 month max and uninstalled them. Currently playing this one Japanese mobage called Princess Connect Reive and don't think I'd get sick of it anytime soon. There are some cool games on console that I'd want to play such as Monster Hunter World, Dragonball Fighterz, etc. But I'd have to buy the PS4 just to play a few games and that's why I'm sticking to my PC.


----------



## Rhamnetin

I had another "Oh man, PC gaming is awesome" moment recently. The other day I got a 21:9 ultrawide monitor, an unusual aspect ratio with a 3440 x 1440 resolution. I tested a bunch of early to mid 2000s games and late 1990s games, and most of them support the resolution with no issue! And the ones I tested that do have issue still run at 2560 x 1440, which I can run with black bars on the sides of the monitor so it's not bad.


----------



## saddleup (Mar 18, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> I had another "Oh man, PC gaming is awesome" moment recently. The other day I got a 21:9 ultrawide monitor, an unusual aspect ratio with a 3440 x 1440 resolution. I tested a bunch of early to mid 2000s games and late 1990s games, and most of them support the resolution with no issue! And the ones I tested that do have issue still run at 2560 x 1440, which I can run with black bars on the sides of the monitor so it's not bad.



The fact that you are still playing games from the 1990s and 2000s really emphasizes the PCs versatility.  I built a gaming PC instead of going next gen consoles so I could still play games like Magic Carpet on GOG.com.  Would love to see Black & White on GOG.


----------



## Rhamnetin

saddleup said:


> The fact that you are still playing games from the 1990s and 2000s really emphasizes the PCs versatility.  I built a gaming PC instead of going next gen consoles so I could still play games like Magic Carpet on GOG.com.  Would love to see Black & White on GOG.



Yeah, many genres were flat out better in the 2000s and there are plenty of gems from the 1990s as well. 2000s PC games generally had the most content, most emphasis on technological innovation and often even used technology better than today's games. Innovation in gaming was at its highest in the 2000s, also higher in the late 1990s than now, since developers were inspired by all the new major technologies like 3D rendering. One example I like to use to illustrate this point is this one: PC gamers went from considering Unreal Tournament 2003 unacceptable for having too little content (52 maps, 8 game modes, 14 UNIQUE weapons, 100% endless moddability, dedicated server application and SDK included with the game) to being perfectly fine with unmoddable games limited to rent-a-server programs, 8-12 maps, 1-4 unoriginal game modes, only generic guns with mostly the same functionality and poor balance, and hundreds of dollars worth of DLC. Compare even UT2003's amount and quality of content to a PvP shooter from today... no contest.

Other examples I like to use:



Spoiler
































Also, games from these past eras were often much more moddable, to the point where people constantly made what equates to their own games belonging to separate genres. Some examples:

http://www.moddb.com/games/unreal-tournament-2004/mods

http://www.moddb.com/games/medieval-ii-total-war-kingdoms/mods

http://www.moddb.com/games/mount-blade-warband/mods

http://www.moddb.com/games/half-life-2/mods

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=4000

The list goes on... most of my game time goes to 2000s games. Endless replay value in so many of those games.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 19, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> I had another "Oh man, PC gaming is awesome" moment recently. The other day I got a 21:9 ultrawide monitor, an unusual aspect ratio with a 3440 x 1440 resolution. I tested a bunch of early to mid 2000s games and late 1990s games, and most of them support the resolution with no issue! And the ones I tested that do have issue still run at 2560 x 1440, which I can run with black bars on the sides of the monitor so it's not bad.


Actually, what a lot of the older stuff do is crop out the top and bottom. It's not real 21:9 support. You''re actually getting less of the intended image on screen.

Easily done but putting something like the corner of an object in the top left corner of a 16:9 image, thhen change to 21:9 and check if the view has expanded beyond the corner of the object in either height or width. You should take a picture, and possibly restart after changing the res, as some games need a reboot to properly engage in 16:9 to 21:9 if supported.

You don't need a 21:9 screen to test 21:9 resolutions. Just set custom resolutions if your displays support arbritrary resolutions.

Like on a 1080p screen (1920x1080), you can change to 1920x810 or even 800 or so. For a 2560x1440p screen (1440p), you can set to the ultrawide res of 2560x1080 (which many ultrawide monitors are sold as today). For 4k/uhd (3840x2160 screens), you can set to 3840x1600 which is the newest ultrawides sold today).

In third person games, you can easily tell it's fake ultriwide because your character's body gets more cut off instead of actually expanding your extreme left/right fov.

So yes, make sure it's not just cropping the image from what you can see in 16:9 mode. One example of fake Ultrawide is Castlevania Lord Of Shadows. I get less of an image. Now if I play Tomb Raider, I get the same image PLUS more on the left and right.

In fact, I'm positive you're cropping out the vast majority of those old games because they were made back when 4:3 was the main aspect ratio of video games. As monitors became more and more wide, more games started supporting actual wider fovs instead of cropping out to fit the majority of the image.

Let me give you some examples:

Here's DMC. It supports native 21:9. Disregard the black bars (as obviously I have a 16:9 4k display)











You see on the 1st image that is 21:9 how there's more to see on the left and right? More of the chandelier, more of the bottom of the stairs, while the top and bottom parts of the screen stop in the same places.

Now here's Remember Me, which does NOT have proper 21:9 support. This is how it would look like on your screen (minus the black bars, obviously)











Notice how her feet are cropped out, the top of the screen stops just past the neon sign in 21:9? And how the lest and right sides stop in the same parts as the 16:9? You're getting LESS of an image = not real 21:9 ultrawide support. Just cropping trickery. Real 21:9 should expand on what you see vs 16:9, not the other way around.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Actually, what a lot of the older stuff do is crop out the top and bottom. It's not real 21:9 support. You''re actually getting less of the intended image on screen.
> 
> Easily done but putting something like the corner of an object in the top left corner of a 16:9 image, thhen change to 21:9 and check if the view has expanded beyond the corner of the object in either height or width. You should take a picture, and possibly restart after changing the res, as some games need a reboot to properly engage in 16:9 to 21:9 if supported.
> 
> ...


This is VERY fascinating to me and something I don’t think about... I do all my gaming on Xbone, so I’m guessing I don’t have much to think about in regards to aspect ratio? I believe my TV is set to “standard” or some equivalent in regards to aspect ratio. 

I like when games give you the ability to change the size of the screen. Nice feature!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, consoles don't have to worry about this as the vast majority of games are limited to tv resolutions of 16:9. If you were playing a console on a 21:9 screen you'd have black bars on the left and right. Unless you manuallymforced a stretched image or cropped the top and bottom with a 21:9 monitor's resize options.


----------



## Rhamnetin

Thanks for the post Mad Lust Envy, that's not something I really thought of either. I suppose that explains why in some of those games, I had to increase the FOV - my image was getting cropped. Better looking than black bars on the sides though. I plan to return to 16:9 anyway once we get 40-43" 4k high refresh rate HDMI 2.1 OLED TVs (or monitors but I don't see that happening, not any time soon at least), and the GPU horsepower for such a thing (though by that time the GPU horsepower will be there).


----------



## Pairzilla

PC all day.


----------



## Fan0Cans

I PC game 99% of the time, my consoles are for those odd Single player platform exclusive games they dont release on pc lol.


----------



## Tex Irie

PC Gamer.... I do have a question.  Are there any issues with selling or Trading Video Cards on Head-Fi?


----------



## Rhamnetin

Tex Irie said:


> PC Gamer.... I do have a question.  Are there any issues with selling or Trading Video Cards on Head-Fi?



Only audio equipment is sold here. Wouldn't be much buyers for video cards here anyway. Try [h]ardforum, Overclock.net, Techpowerup, Guru3D, Xtremesystems, or of course Ebay or Amazon.


----------



## Tex Irie

Rhamnetin said:


> Only audio equipment is sold here. Wouldn't be much buyers for video cards here anyway. Try [h]ardforum, Overclock.net, Techpowerup, Guru3D, Xtremesystems, or of course Ebay or Amazon.


Good to know.


----------



## raccoon city

I mostly emulate console games, but I sometimes play PC games.
I haven't had a new console system since my PlayStation 2.


----------



## kinonik90

PC definitely. 
Long overdue for an upgrade to the PC.
Maybe even a ps4 for them sony exclusives.


----------



## NBigbee

Console...Mainly because of the numbers of friends who also console game.


----------



## possitivepollution

PC by far, just dont understand why people would sacrifice the versatility of a pc


----------



## Thundereagle

I loved Final Fantasy! I played it on the PSone 
However, I have since long gone to the side of PC master race


----------



## jguest

I've always played both but PC seems to be what I prefer. Though the switch has won me over quite a bit.


----------



## Tex Irie

If anyone is looking for a GTX 980Ti feel free to pm me.


----------



## YVWM47

pc all the way


----------



## snapz47

PCMR!


----------



## Jinoh

Grew up with both, but mainly console. Nintendo and Sony, but made the switch later to PC. Love both


----------



## mikerrr

i am pc  gamer...  i dont  like   consoles

i,play all the  kind of games


----------



## KungFuNat

Both


----------



## Tigermelon

PC gamer because I love tinkering with my toys and I have multiple hobbies utilizing a PC.


----------



## freb03

Got my gaming pc since 2015. I studied in graphic design before so i was with mac for a decade. I know hardware and compatibility is better with pc but i will always preffer mac os x. Anyway, since then im gaming pc more than console because there's a lot more choice of games and like others said i can always play emulator if i feel like. It just sucks that there are done PlayStation game that i would like to play like last of us 2 that will come out and little big planet 3.


----------



## bradysays

Been a pc gamer for about 20 years now. I see how much these new consoles which come out every couple of years cost and think f*ck that lol I can just upgrade my graphics card if needed.


----------



## ongsta

Grew up playing counter-strike on the PC, have never fully managed to play a shooter on a console.

Having said that, I do love console for RPG's. Currently unit is a Switch which I use to play games on my daily commute.


----------



## Zeo-Gold92

Right now I'm just a console gamer, that is until I get my rig underway. Pretty excited as it'll be the first I build from scratch. Exciting.


----------



## SteezyRayVaughan

I've been wanting to build a pc here recently, but with the inflated prices of gpu's and ram (thanks crypto miners!), I'm going to wait a little longer. If you're quick though, you can find decent prices here and there. Still it can be a hassle.


----------



## Zeo-Gold92

It definitely can be, I put off building a PC only because at the time I couldn't justify it. But I'm looking forward to it now.


----------



## totte

Used to be all about super nintendo and then n64. But as soon as I built my first pc(celeron 400 mhz)and we got a decent internet connection (not a lousy 56k modem) it was all pc. The 64 was very nice though. Alot of great times playing golden eye and mario cart!


----------



## Fotopaul

Nothing beats "PC hardcore gamers" telling everyone why their custom neon build is da crap.. and that console games sucks becuase they are not played on a pc.. LOL


----------



## headhuan (Jul 29, 2018)

If they enjoy their games and don't feel like theyre missing out then more power to them, its all about having fun
Have you ever copy the video files or pictures to discs for preservation? There is more or less quality loss when you convert video to DVD or BD, especially the burn high definition one. But you could reduce the quality loss to a minimum.


----------



## stray1000

Mostly a PC gamer. That said, there are so many console-exclusive games that are simply too fun to pass up. Will definitely get a console when Black Friday swings by.


----------



## outdooradventurer

I was a PS4 person but just switched to PC gaming this year. Couldn't be happier! It also allows me to play with my friends who have Xbox


----------



## jomy

Both; console for ambience and relaxed play, PC for competitive play!


----------



## Kukuk

Because of work most of my gaming is done on portable lately, namely on my Vita, but my main system is PC. I'm actually in the process of building a new computer.

Building off of this beauty. 






It's going to be a few weeks until I finish building it. Parts are expensive...


----------



## seanheis

Console, so I can play split screen with my kid on my 120 inch projection screen.


----------



## loryko

Both. I love my PC and PS. But honestly spend more game time with PC now


----------



## Kukuk

Not sure if anyone cares, but I finished my computer a couple weeks ago.










Threadripper 2950x OC'd to 4ghz cooled with a Noctua NH-U14S TR4
32GB of DDR4, 3000mhz in quad channel
EVGA GTX 1080ti
SoundblasterX AE-5
1 480GB SSD, 1 6TB HDD
Antec HCG 900w PSU

Also got a full set of Noctua fans, case is Fractal Design Meshify C.

It's pretty much overkill just for gaming.


----------



## Tex Irie

Kukuk said:


> Not sure if anyone cares, but I finished my computer a couple weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a nice build.


----------



## loopy.s

Kukuk said:


> Not sure if anyone cares, but I finished my computer a couple weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Damn, such a clean build too. I used to be a heavy PC gamer, I built a rig when the GTX 680 was top of the line, but most of my friends are console gamers so I followed suit


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Just found this thread. I play on both PC and console ... I do definitely prefer the PC in general, but I hate to game with keyboard and mouse. Reminds me of work and office. So, I do play the games I can play on PC with a controller ... Single Player Games, mostly. But since I love battlefield and MP FPS, I need a console since I cannot compete on PC with my controller against the kB/m crowd. What a shame, why do things need to be so complicated.


----------



## stavros.m

Depends on the mood i will say i play most of the time on the PC, but since i work all day on a computer there are night's i rather be on the couch. Plus lately my kids are getting into gaming and sitting on the couch as a family is easier. For gaming i have a PS4 and Xbox one X and using the X more then the ps4 lately especially with game pass.


----------



## stavros.m

Kukuk said:


> Not sure if anyone cares, but I finished my computer a couple weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



love the build i was looking at upgrading my pc but undecided on threadripper now or waiting for amd 7nm next year


----------



## Rhamnetin

Threadripper will perform considerably worse than Intel for gaming, but obviously it has other uses.


----------



## Kukuk (Oct 25, 2018)

Rhamnetin said:


> Threadripper will perform considerably worse than Intel for gaming, but obviously it has other uses.



Really only for high-fps, low resolution gaming. 1440p and higher will see basically the same performance between a Threadripper and even an 8700k.




stavros.m said:


> love the build i was looking at upgrading my pc but undecided on threadripper now or waiting for amd 7nm next year



Yeah, right now's kinda a tough time to get a 100% new build. 7nm is coming on both the CPU and GPU front. It's why I'm passing on the RTX 2000 series. I'm pretty sure 7nm Nvidia cards are coming next year, or early 2020.


----------



## Keisuk3

Pc gamer with a want to buy a switch


----------



## Por_Tu_Guy

I'm a console peasant  only game casually with friends but wouldn't mind a cool PC rig but I'm not really tech savvy enough to build my own.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

PC Mostly.


----------



## Kukuk

On a whim I bought a new monitor. It's an Omen 27. It's kind of an interesting monitor: it's 1440p and 165hz with G-Sync. I actually bought it because I wanted to try out high refresh gameplay, and this monitor was marked down significantly from its MSRP. It was normally $800, which is absolutely absurd, even for it's specs. At one point it was marked down to $500, which was somewhat competitive with other monitors, but it got one final markdown to $350, and that's when I decided to jump on it.

The downside to this is it's a TN panel. Colors are not great, viewing angles are garbage, and it's hard to go back to 16:9.

The upside is the crazy high refresh rate. I've never used anything more than like 75hz, so this is a huge jump. Like, a game changer for FPS and the like. Especially with G-Sync, the experience is just so much smoother. Even sub-optimal framerates feel better.

It's definitely not going to be my daily driver, but it's an interesting experience none-the-less. The next time I'm in the market for a new monitor I'm definitely going to look into high-refresh ultrawides.


----------



## Regnum

A little of both.


----------



## fonkh

I own all consoles, but once i got my 120 Hz G-Sync monitor, its hard to go back to them, so mostly PC. But lets see when the 4K OLED arrives with X1X, might shift my interest.


----------



## Rhamnetin

fonkh said:


> I own all consoles, but once i got my 120 Hz G-Sync monitor, its hard to go back to them, so mostly PC. But lets see when the 4K OLED arrives with X1X, might shift my interest.



If that happens, then connect your PC to the 4k OLED!


----------



## blackdragon87

PS4 all the way


----------



## Randonneur

PC. Could never give up the keyboard/mouse for a gamepaddything.


----------



## flareburst

I used to be a huge console gamer growing up, but I am now leaning more towards being a PC gamer. I think it just has more to do with the fact that I only had my PC in college, and thus I ended up playing more games on it.


----------



## pretzel06

I never owned a console so I used pc for my gaming needs.


----------



## blackdragon87 (Nov 26, 2018)

sorry, didnt realize i posted already in this thread


----------



## konstanzzz

pc. been at least 5 years since i last touched a console.


----------



## jamjkv

I prefer playing FPS on PC with keyboard, mouse and a high refresh rate monitor. I just find it frustrating on consoles. When it comes to other games, like multi-platform, I'll pick PC if the developer is known to do good PC games. I prefer having the best graphic I can. Otherwise, I'll play console especially for exclusive games on PlayStation.


----------



## BrightKO

I like both of it. Depends on the game you play


----------



## Playstation

Over 3000 trophies and counting!


----------



## hikaruchisaki

I've always owned consoles as a kid (starting with the NES) cause I could never afford to have a good enough PC to properly game on. I played DOS games, point & click adventures and the Sims though and some others. 

The last consoles I bought were the 360 and the PS3. I just stopped gaming for a long time due to "life" and other circumstances. When I started to get back into gaming again, none of the consoles stood out to me enough that made me want to spend the money. I instead invested in upgrading my PC so that I could finally play whatever game I wanted to. Right now I'm slowly working through my backlog. I have a lot of games I never even played on the last gen consoles. There are a bunch of Sony exclusive games that look good, so I would like to get a PS4 someday...


----------



## CyberAmplified

I played console when I was younger but after I realized how much more graphic freedom you have with a PC and that some of the games are so much cheaper I migrated to PC and never looked back. I have nothing against console games, and I have to admit I enjoy some of the games that are console exclusive like Red Dead Redemption 2, but PC all the way for me.


----------



## hikaruchisaki

CyberAmplified said:


> I played console when I was younger but after I realized how much more graphic freedom you have with a PC and that some of the games are so much cheaper I migrated to PC and never looked back. I have nothing against console games, and I have to admit I enjoy some of the games that are console exclusive like Red Dead Redemption 2, but PC all the way for me.


I agree with you. I'm glad I got into PC gaming now too. It just makes sense - especially if you like to build the PC yourself. I thought it would be too complicated or stressful and didn't want the "hassle" but it was definitely worth learning. Plus it was actually a lot of fun.


----------



## msuroo

hikaruchisaki said:


> I agree with you. I'm glad I got into PC gaming now too. It just makes sense - especially if you like to build the PC yourself. I thought it would be too complicated or stressful and didn't want the "hassle" but it was definitely worth learning. Plus it was actually a lot of fun.



Building a PC was so much easier than I expected it to be - basically grown up legos lol.  Added bonus, it now serves as my source (via Tidal) for my Valhalla/Bifrost stack and HD700s!


----------



## ChevyMonsenhor

I am both, i'm originally a console gamer from the PS1 era onwards, my first proper gaming-capable PC was built by myself in 2013 and since then i keep updating my hardware pretty much every year.


----------



## demonstrative

PC, the only consoles I had were Sega and Gameboys. My parents would bring me to their work when I was a child and there was a PC store right next door that would just let me sit and game there for hours...turns out I was good marketing for the store, hah.


----------



## Kopfkraut

PC all the way. Mom wouldn't let us kids have consoles when we were children, but dad eventually talked her into agreeing to a family PC. Later got permitted to buy my own PC, so I simply grew up with the stuff (a Gameboy for Pokemon aside), and I honestly have to say that after being so used to be I actually prefer it by far and large. I can sit at a desk for longer hours than on a sofa, console controllers only make my hands sweaty, I'm not used to the thumbstick and shoulder trigger controls at all, mouse is more precise, keyboard has a greater number of inputs, and last but not least computers are faster and more powerful and more versatile in general. Console loading times always feel like a huge drag on the rare occasion, and you can barely do anything other than play games or movies on them. It's just better.


----------



## Remmnever

PC here. I played consoles for years. Finally made the switch to PC last year. Never going back.. well except for console exclusives. The new spider man and red dead 2 have been fun on ps4.


----------



## KcMsterpce

When consoles started becoming a PC-in-a-box, required monthly payments to properly upgrade/play games, the hardware was a sad low-rent version of what a PC was capable of... AND games were constantly coming out broken with 1GB+ sized patches at release... I quit buying consoles altogether.
It's not that PC games are a perfect-world scenario either, but I loved console gaming because of the convenience of plug-and-play. Now, they are just as bug-riddled and dependent on patches and internet connection as a PC. However, the hardware specs are less impressive than a homemade $500 computer, and you can't upgrade the GPU, etc...
I love that PC games end up dropping in price after time, and many games that allow mods makes them even more intricate and exciting to play.
PC all the way for me now.


----------



## 340519

I'm the opposite as I'm fully console. I have the X and the Pro on a 4k hdr monitor. I became sick of upgrading my pc constantly and troubleshooting when I wanted to relax and game. That and the cost. I will never go back to pc.


----------



## Jason Van Patten

PC Master Race.  I was 20 when the original Doom was launched on PC.  The moment I saw that game, I knew gaming would be changed forever.  I set my Sega Genesis controller down, and I've never picked up another console controller since.


----------



## AzmiAN

I am all the way console gamer


----------



## protoss

Console gamer because I used to own all consoles.


----------



## Curtis95

PC gamer everyday all day, I have had both Xbox and PS but I always turn back to PC gaming, the only thing I liked about console gaming is a lot more of my friends play console. It's a shame that people always go to consoles, PC games have such better gameplay in my eyes and just feel more natural movements. But thats my opinion. =)


----------



## Hoegaardener70

Curtis95 said:


> PC gamer everyday all day, I have had both Xbox and PS but I always turn back to PC gaming, the only thing I liked about console gaming is a lot more of my friends play console. It's a shame that people always go to consoles, PC games have such better gameplay in my eyes and just feel more natural movements. But thats my opinion. =)



I love  PC gaming  for the  better (=smoother) graphics  and my 3440x1440 widescreen.  However, I do only play single  player games with  the PC which are playable with  a controller. I do hate playing with a keyboard and mouse,  I miss the rumble feedback and more importantly, I feel like being at work. Ouch! Since I mostly  play Battlefield (besides stuff like Doom, Metro on PC), I am literally forced to go console since I'd be destroyed on PC playing battlefield with  a controller. I wish there would be more options for controller guys  like me on  pc, e.g.  with special servers.


----------



## CoryGillmore

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I love  PC gaming  for the  better (=smoother) graphics  and my 3440x1440 widescreen.  However, I do only play single  player games with  the PC which are playable with  a controller. I do hate playing with a keyboard and mouse,  I miss the rumble feedback and more importantly, I feel like being at work. Ouch! Since I mostly  play Battlefield (besides stuff like Doom, Metro on PC), I am literally forced to go console since I'd be destroyed on PC playing battlefield with  a controller. I wish there would be more options for controller guys  like me on  pc, e.g.  with special servers.


Same here! Though I will will play some games with kb/m. Like Fallout 4 for some reason. But I went through nearly 1000 hours on Witcher 3 for PC on my Xbox controller.


----------



## Curtis95

Hoegaardener70 said:


> I love  PC gaming  for the  better (=smoother) graphics  and my 3440x1440 widescreen.  However, I do only play single  player games with  the PC which are playable with  a controller. I do hate playing with a keyboard and mouse,  I miss the rumble feedback and more importantly, I feel like being at work. Ouch! Since I mostly  play Battlefield (besides stuff like Doom, Metro on PC), I am literally forced to go console since I'd be destroyed on PC playing battlefield with  a controller. I wish there would be more options for controller guys  like me on  pc, e.g.  with special servers.



Yeah im with you, I also understand the whole "work thing". Haha, yeah I still get smashed at Battlefield myself, I used to think I was a decent player, maybe I'm just getting worse as I age lol, who knows!

But yeah hopefully one day controllers will be able to compete with PC gamers and have a fair game. Would also be awesome if cross-platform started to become a big thing, which I believe it is looking that way! Fingers crossed. Then I'll happily stay loyal to PC and still be able to game with friends and family, happy days!


----------



## SpectrewMuller

I didn't really have time to sit in front of monitor and play games, so I found some games to play on my old PS Vita in my spare time.
Thanks to that and thanks to Techgara's article, I played back the games from my childhood like Lost Dimension or Tearaway.


----------



## wmf (Jun 21, 2019)

mostly PC games, but i also have a xbox one X.  i prefer the FPS games on the PC, Battlefield , Cod WW2, PUBG, etc.... sports games, like Madden, NBA or Forza Horizon4,
RDR2, i like on the xbox. I could never use a controller for FPS games.. people do tho, and they are awesome at it... i just cant do it.. maybe if practice a lot.


----------



## N00bAudiophile

I do console Games. I just dont wanna be surprised at the electrical bill in the end of the month..


----------



## mariopepper (Jun 28, 2019)

I am pc gamer  and it's much more comfortable for me and I used to it since I was a child. I got my first pc when I was 12y.o. and I downloaded as many games as could. Honestly it's a pleasure to choose wich game should you play, it's so exciting.


----------



## Amish

I play both but prefer PC.

There are 3 PC gaming rigs in my house, a WiiU, XB360, XBone, PS4, and PS4 Pro.

My son is a bigger console game and spends a lot of time with the PS4. Daughter is more a PC gamer. Wife doesn't care.


----------



## Audiophonicalistic

PC all the way with a lovely 2080ti. All of my friends have xbox though which sucks.


----------



## clouddasher

I am mainly a pc gamer more because of the type of games I play than anything really.


----------



## TLAS43

I do both, but usually just because of exclusives. If everything was available everywhere I would stick with PC. I do still enjoy console gaming tho.


----------



## Ult1mat3X

I'm a cross-platform gamer: mobile: Summoners war 5 years; xbox: mortal combat on my job with colleagues, and at home I use PC: currently playing Heroes of the Storm with friends only


----------



## JR1911

I was a PC gamer for 25 years but about 1½ years ago I got a PS4 Pro along with a nice 65" TV and since then I've pretty much completely switched over to console gaming.


----------



## swollazn

Currently PC gamer. I grew up with xbox -> x360 -> built my pc

Now I would just get a google stadia whenever that comes out, not sure where that falls in this category.


----------



## tdockweiler

I was both for awhile and stopped playing PC games around 2007.
It got too expensive for me. At the time I bought an expensive graphics card and some games still wouldn't play well.
I think this was possibly when the Geforce 8400 was considered very good and Half Life 2 was going to be released soon.
I also had to stop my addictions of constantly upgrading my PC. It was never enough and I kept throwing so much money at it.
Now I get only what I need and believe it or not that is a Core i3-6100  I must have like a dozen hard drives though.
Pathetic that I still use onboard video too and only need 8gb of ram.

I still remember the days when you had to have a 2d AND 3d card to play games!
I remember once having two Voodoo2 cards. Why two? You got to run games at 800x600 instead or lower resolutions if I remember right.
I actually bought a PC because of DOOM!
Remember also those days where it was impossible to run most DOS games under Windows 3.11?

One reason I don't use my PC for gaming is that I need it for work and it's constantly in use. I could multitask, but I do a lot of video encoding and burning of DVD-Rs.

There is another big reason too...My TV is a LOT bigger!
I prefer not to connect my PC to a TV. 
My desktop display is only a 24" at a max of 1920x1200.

Sadly no 4k TV for me yet and I was forced to sell my PS4. Hope to score another by the end of the year.
Sometimes I feel like i'm the only person in the USA without a 4k TV! They're so common and cheap now.
No name brands for $198.


----------



## NZtechfreak

Both, currently have monster gaming PC as well as PS4 Pro and Nintendo Switch and 3DS. Mostly playing Switch, but do enjoy firing up the PC (ironically I mostly play games from my console library in emulators there though).


----------



## CoryGillmore

NZtechfreak said:


> Both, currently have monster gaming PC as well as PS4 Pro and Nintendo Switch and 3DS. Mostly playing Switch, but do enjoy firing up the PC (ironically I mostly play games from my console library in emulators there though).


Nice! I've got a 7700k and SLI 980Ti's. I've had those 980Ti's since 2015! They've been great cards but I can no longer run most new games in 4k and even 1440p is pushing it. I intend to drop in a 2080Ti before spring or I may see if they bring in a new generation this upcoming year. I own all the other consoles except the Switch and I want a new Switch Lite so bad! I'll have one before Christmas I suspect. It's time. I loved my 3DS and all the versions of it.


----------



## Wyville

tdockweiler said:


> I was both for awhile and stopped playing PC games around 2007.
> It got too expensive for me. At the time I bought an expensive graphics card and some games still wouldn't play well.
> I think this was possibly when the Geforce 8400 was considered very good and Half Life 2 was going to be released soon.
> I also had to stop my addictions of constantly upgrading my PC. It was never enough and I kept throwing so much money at it.
> ...


LOL! I remember the first Windows PCs, but our first PC was a Wang that only ran DOS and had a whopping 4MB harddrive.  With the newer PCs I played the original DOOM until my eyes bled. And Wolfenstein 3D. 

These days I stick to my PS4 because I had too many crashes with my last gaming PC. Constantly got the 'blue screen of death' (yep, it was running Vista, lol!) and when it kept crashing after a $1,000 upgrade, I just had enough and switched to consoles. The PS2 initially, PS3 soon after and got a PS4 a few months after it was first released. Been pretty happy with it, although I miss some aspects of PC gaming. Will have a good think when the PS5 comes out next year, whether to upgrade or switch back to PC.


----------



## dieterverberck

I play always on pc,i have now the  msi ge 63 raider laptop with rtx 2070 ,144hz screen i7 8750 processor
I have played on a desktop pc but now i have no place for that.
I sit in a sofa with the laptop on a laptop desk and thats fine


----------



## sigmasix

Mainly PC these days, lukcily my 970 GTX has lasted the test of time and can still play nearly all games on high, not 4k or ultra but still great. For strategy games and city builders need a PC!

A bit of PS4 here and there, was a big XBOX 360 fan for couch/friends gaming back in the day especially when they had free games every month, but not seeing the depth in gaming these days.


----------



## bryceu

Always PC. But at many times Playstation in the past.


----------



## Slaphead

Was a PS4 guy, and still am, but I felt the need to up my game (pun intended) so I recently went for a AIO cooled i9 9900k and RTX 2080 Ti with 32GB RAM, 4TB of SSD goodness and a Rift-S for VR

Man, Elite Dangerous in VR is really something to behold

My main gaming is race sims though and Assetto Corsa, Dirt Rally 1 and 2, and Project Cars 2 are absolutely beautiful in VR.


----------



## fcw0

I'm all PC except for the rare console exclusive.


----------



## S1ngerho

Mainly PC but sometimes I play games on PSP and Switch


----------



## CoryGillmore

CoryGillmore said:


> Nice! I've got a 7700k and SLI 980Ti's. I've had those 980Ti's since 2015! They've been great cards but I can no longer run most new games in 4k and even 1440p is pushing it. I intend to drop in a 2080Ti before spring or I may see if they bring in a new generation this upcoming year. I own all the other consoles except the Switch and I want a new Switch Lite so bad! I'll have one before Christmas I suspect. It's time. I loved my 3DS and all the versions of it.


Just a little update I picked up a Switch a couple weeks ago and couldn't be happier with it. All those 1st party Nintendo exclusives are worth the price of admission easily. I picked up Breath Of The Wild, Mario Odessey and Smash, but I coud've easily spent another $300 and got another 6 games I want. I didn't get the Lite version though I do only play in handheld mode, just the novelty of it being such a powerful handheld keeps me in that mode. Once you plug it into the TV it loses what makes it special IMO.


----------



## HiGHFLYiN9

CoryGillmore said:


> Nice! I've got a 7700k and SLI 980Ti's. I've had those 980Ti's since 2015!


Nothing wrong with sticking with what works  I have an old 4790K and 1080GTX and bumping up to a fresh processor/mobo wouldn't offer much gains... at least not yet.


----------



## hifi nub (Feb 13, 2020)

all pc, in fact i just ordered a iKBC CD87 Mechanical Keyboard with Cherry MX Brown Switch. coming from a 1986 ibm model m mechanical kboard. I've been in PC since Wolfenstein 3D. I got into building them back in 2006. I still have the original call of duty 1 call of duty United offensive and call of duty 2 multipack. call of duty 4 modern warfare. call of duty world at war. another game we can't mention here.


----------



## Deferenz (Mar 10, 2020)

I am a console gamer.

I started console gaming in 1979. The first console was a Pong type system by Binatone called the TV Master. I cannot recall which version but I remember it was black and orange.

The next console, bought as a Christmas present in 1980/81, was the Atari VCS. This came with the PAC-Man game. This gave me untold hours of gaming fun and this console had a large number of games available for it.

Next up, around 1985, was actually a computer; the ZX Spectrum+ 48K. Although a basic home computer, it was used predominantly just for gaming. There were literally thousands of games for this machine. It also introduced me to the first console war I am aware of. This had ZX Spectrum owners and Commodore 64 owners at each other’s throats over which machine was better.

Next for me was the Saga Megadrive (Genesis in US). Loads of great games for this console. Favourites on this were probably FIFA international soccer and Mortal Kombat.

Then the list of consoles owned goes:
Play Station
Play Station 2
Sega Dreamcast 
Nintendo Game Cube
Nintendo Wii
XBox 360
Play Station 3
Play Station 4
Nintendo Wii U
Play Station 4 Pro

I just like consoles. I have nothing against PC gaming, and I accept that gaming PC’s are better in virtually all respects. But for me  I just do not want a gaming PC.


----------



## ScottFree

Started as a PC gamer, then PC and console, then exclusively console when my PC fell far behind in the power stakes and I lost interest in upgrading hardware.

Now however I'm both at the moment thanks to Nvidia and GeForce Now. If you have a decent connection (50mbps recommended) though at my office I can get 35mbps and I have very few quality drops. YMMV of course. Personally I think it's a damn, damn good service. Been using it since the Beta and now it's gone live I will definitely recommended it for $5 a month. Now if they could only get Activision Blizzard and Bethesda to play nice so they can bring back their games back on the service. 

In terms of the availability of games there's a decent spread but it's missing some big titles and some games are only available to play through GeForce Now through certain services. Some games are only available through Steam which if you've bought it anywhere else means you're SOL, but some you can play from Steam and Uplay or Steam and Epic. 

If you want to get back into PC gaming and have a decent connection and don't have much money to spend on a PC or upgrades to your current PC then check out GeForce Now.


----------



## alex9090

PC Gaming for quite some time, even though some games are perfect on a console.


----------



## KarlAgathon

Both


----------



## LOPO1985

I used to be Pc gamer but after long time of non playin i have bought xbox one s and after that i sold it and now i have ps4.


----------



## mariopepper

I prefer console gaming. Even with augmented reality atributes


----------



## Playstation

The ps3 was A LOT stronger than the ps2. The leap from the ps3 to ps4 wasn't as big. I'm no math wizard, but the ps5 is looking nice on paper. I wonder what it will cost.


----------



## SilverEars (Mar 28, 2020)

Playstation said:


> The ps3 was A LOT stronger than the ps2. The leap from the ps3 to ps4 wasn't as big. I'm no math wizard, but the ps5 is looking nice on paper. I wonder what it will cost.


Yeah, I thought PS3 was a huge leap.  I recall being blown alway when I saw the trailers for stuff processed by PS3.  The PS3/XBOX360 generation was an impressive leap in graphics, and then it wasn't as significant after that.  These days I'm not seeing milestones.  There needs to be a companies like Crytek, etc.. to create software that can really impress us.  Not seeing much innovations in that direction these days.


----------



## Iplaydrunk99

PC GAMER FOR LIFE !! cheaper games, and you can incrementally upgrade your system anytime you want unlike consoles


----------



## Camph

Always PC


----------



## phcjpp

PC Games - built this beast - now being used to work from home. Such a shame!!!




upload photo


----------



## Iceberg420

Casually play console, but definitely spend the vast majority gaming on PC. 

There's something about the ability to upgrade components as time and money see fit. With the way things are trending, I could definitely see consoles eventually shifting to modular components in the future, oand essentially becoming PC's over time...


----------



## Slaphead

phcjpp said:


> PC Games - built this beast - now being used to work from home. Such a shame!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did a unicorn vomit over that?


----------



## F208Frank

When younger Console, when older PC, when getting even more older, VR.


----------



## phcjpp

Slaphead said:


> Did a unicorn vomit over that?


Something like that yes!


----------



## CTR640

PC and always PC. Also because of keyboard and mouse and complete freedom. I am truly horrible with controllers.
I think I'm a odd duck too using audiophile headphones for gaming and movies but what can I do when they sound so amazing and have the best wearing comfort too.


----------



## stavros.m

I use everything PC (requires an upgrade), Stadia , PS4 Pro and Xbox one X (kids)


----------



## Kra507tos

Ps4, as all my friends are on it compared to the rare few I play in PC.


----------



## zeny

Pc... playing online multiplayer games or occasionaly vr.  I do have a ps4 and switch though but very rarely play them...


----------



## turbo1

Pc gamer here too...tho I’ve always owned a PlayStation


----------



## MEGALADON

I've always been a console gamer. These last couple of years I should have given pc a try. Console gaming consists of alot of false advertisement. I also heard that pc users have more freedom.


----------



## silentz3r0

Mainly pc but switch for portable and couch gaming!


----------



## EtherealCereal

Primarily PC.  I don't have any of the new consoles, but I still have some older consoles around that I like to hook up and play when I'm getting the itch to relive a childhood game.  I intend on buying a newer Playstation some point though, because I want to play the FFVII remake.


----------



## mantsm

Always preffered PC gaming. More flexibility on games, modding, settings.


----------



## Nihsnek

Once you try PC gaming, it's very hard to go back to consoles except for exclusives. PC has so much more firepower and is a way better way to play FPS's.


----------



## Nebula769

pc gamer


----------



## kotaku

Console gamer, pretty much exclusively Nintendo consoles.


----------



## Floris888

Always preffered console gaming.


----------



## charlee

I play on PS4 now. Simply cant keep up with all the pc hardware changes. Not to mention the costs. If I had to choose, and money was no object, I would go for pc gaming. I miss fiddling with the mouse.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Playstation only for like 4 years now, used to be both all my life


----------



## soundguyz

pc masterace checking in. can't beat good ole qwerty


----------



## asatiir

I'm more into hanheld, but I will play on PC too. Nothing against console, but I hardly ever sit in front of the TV to solely play games, I tend to watch something while playing anything.


----------



## PointyFox

I don't see any reason to use something that goes out of its way to limit what you can play and how you can play it.


----------



## stephenlee2801

I'm usually a PC gamer but I've found myself console gaming more this year. Been working from home for the last 6 months so subconsciously been trying to avoid spending time at my desk when I'm done with work.


----------



## Outspread

Owned many consoles and use to play them a lot too. Over the years I've started using them less and less though, and now it's mostly always PC gaming for me.


----------



## TubeStack

Console here, Nintendo through every system since the first, plus PS4 and a brief XBox 360 fling.  Now much pretty much exclusively PS4, although I may have to get an XBox if Elder Scrolls and Fallout become exclusives for that system.

I like the simplicity of consoles; I’m a light-to-medium gamer and play zero online multiplayer.  I can’t be bothered assembling a PC system, for the amount of time I spend gaming.  I’m also very happy with previous gen systems and games, no rush for a PS5, etc.


----------



## erotimatic

PC only, I play multiple PC exclusives like MMORPGs and I really like PC building


----------



## dgindlespergerd

Xbox only for gaming. I work in IS so I get away from the PC after hours.


----------



## Hawk600us

99% PC gamer and 1% PS4


----------



## wjb812

Both Xbox and PC but perfer PC and really thinking about going for the ps/5


----------



## Hoegaardener70

wjb812 said:


> Both Xbox and PC but perfer PC and really thinking about going for the ps/5


Doesn't make much sense anymore to have both PC and the new Xbox, imo. Same for me, just that it will be 2022 until I can get hold of a PS5....


----------



## Jagust

I will pick PC first if it's a multi-platform release, usually the performance is better than the game runs in PS4, but still can use a console on PC gaming.


----------



## looter

Definitely a PC gamer.


----------



## vodkadebugger

PC gamer. Sure I miss out on some exclusives, but I have a 144Hz screen being driven by a 3060Ti (ray tracing is the future) backed by a 5600X. I prefer mouse and keyboard for anything that isn't a JRPG, and I have a G920 for racing games.

I'd get a Switch tho


----------



## aftermath666

Console + PC gamer almost 20 years. Switched to only console with this gen. But lack of serious sound support at Xbox I am feeling lack of something. Write almost every Xbox official Twitter accounts about usb dac support. But I know we are some kind of minority giving huge importance to game audio quality.


----------



## JES

I was an Xbox person for 13 years. I only play FPS games. Made the switch to PC this past summer. I wish I would have done it sooner.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

JES said:


> I was an Xbox person for 13 years. I only play FPS games. Made the switch to PC this past summer. I wish I would have done it sooner.


But gaming with kb/m sucks .... at least for me.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

aftermath666 said:


> Console + PC gamer almost 20 years. Switched to only console with this gen. But lack of serious sound support at Xbox I am feeling lack of something. Write almost every Xbox official Twitter accounts about usb dac support. But I know we are some kind of minority giving huge importance to game audio quality.


I am connected to my DAC via a hmdi hub, works great. Creative X7 does a good job, and even provides high gain output.


----------



## JES

Hoegaardener70 said:


> But gaming with kb/m sucks .... at least for me.


I use a Microsoft Elite Series 2 controller ... KB/Mouse hurts my hands and I'm too old to make the switch.


----------



## 340519

JES said:


> I was an Xbox person for 13 years. I only play FPS games. Made the switch to PC this past summer. I wish I would have done it sooner.


Funny I'm the opposite.  I have a high end pc but the Xbox series x with my new lg cx tv is just too awesome so I'm on the console side again.


----------



## 340519

JES said:


> I use a Microsoft Elite Series 2 controller ... KB/Mouse hurts my hands and I'm too old to make the switch.


I'm all scuf baby.  I just bought 4 new prestige and I absolutely love them.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

I can't game with keyboard and mouse. That's why I have to use a steam controller. I have an xbox controller too.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

dmdm said:


> Funny I'm the opposite.  I have a high end pc but the Xbox series x with my new lg cx tv is just too awesome so I'm on the console side again.


Just use your oled as your pc monitor. I use a 55' oled as my monitor. Best of both worlds.

I have an optical running from my tv to my Sony TA-ZH1ES with my MDR-Z1Rs.


----------



## Hoegaardener70

JES said:


> I use a Microsoft Elite Series 2 controller ... KB/Mouse hurts my hands and I'm too old to make the switch.


Same here. I am tied to console because playing Battlefield againt the kb/m guys on PC ... is no fun at all.


----------



## illram

Hoegaardener70 said:


> But gaming with kb/m sucks .... at least for me.


As someone who started as a kid playing on PC, then went to console, then back to PC again...my frankenstein monster solution is a controller in my left hand and a mouse in my right. (For FPS games at least.)

Best of both worlds, to me. I hate using WASD, feels clunky and awkward. But I also hate aiming with an analog stick. 

For most other games a controller is preferred, for sure.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 4, 2021)

illram said:


> As someone who started as a kid playing on PC, then went to console, then back to PC again...my frankenstein monster solution is a controller in my left hand and a mouse in my right. (For FPS games at least.)
> 
> Best of both worlds, to me. I hate using WASD, feels clunky and awkward. But I also hate aiming with an analog stick.
> 
> For most other games a controller is preferred, for sure.









You need one of these. Fragchuk something. I have one and I'm gonna try and get good with it soon. I'm someone who uses controllers, but I definitely feel disadvantaged be when playing WZ on pc with my mates who all use kb&m.

I will NEVER use keyboard for movement, but a mouse for aiming just makes sense.

I'm just trying to find the right mouse. I need enough buttons on the right to emulate enough of the right side of controllers. Some have too many buttons, and most don't have enough, or are placed in uncomfortable positions.


----------



## illram (Mar 5, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You need one of these. Fragchuk something. I have one and I'm gonna try and get good with it soon. I'm someone who uses controllers, but I definitely feel disadvantaged be when playing WZ on pc with my mates who all use kb&m.
> 
> I will NEVER use keyboard for movement, but a mouse for aiming just makes sense.
> 
> I'm just trying to find the right mouse. I need enough buttons on the right to emulate enough of the right side of controllers. Some have too many buttons, and most don't have enough, or are placed in uncomfortable positions.



Ha! I have three of these. One that I use and two in boxes when it breaks. (I went through one already, and it takes forever to order a new one, and I am slightly worried the company will go bankrupt as I think it's a one man operation at this point.) I highly recommend trying the Logitech G502, it is perfect for me for Warzone.

I love that they can switch between being seen as a keyboard or a stick. (Meaning, they can be seen as a keyboard on a console as well!) The one limitation of these is for one handed use, I wish the "frag" key could be re-mapped, but it can't. For some games, like Warzone, I still need another button (even with all the G502 buttons), so I use the left half of a Steam Controller and use the paddle on the back to shift to different bindings, so I basically have two controller mappings in one hand which is neat. You can also use Joytokey (free) and do this for any controller, actually, but I like using the rear paddle to enable the shift functionality, and there really are not a lot of controllers that have a rear paddle you can easily bind. 

Now that the Steam controller is also defunct, not sure what I will do when I run through my Fragchucks and my Steam controllers. I really really really don't want to spend $150 or whatever on an Elite controller. I tried one once and it had dreaded stick drift, and I am not a fan of how easy the rear paddles are to accidentally push.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 5, 2021)

I ended up buying an ergonomic mouse with analog stick. I'll use the analog stick to replace the face buttons on a controller. So, A, B, X, Y. The press will replace probably crouch (R3). Since the L2 on the Fragchuk will be zoom, I'll use right mouse click as shoot, and left click as grenade. I need right click for shoot since that's the finger I use for shooting on a controller. I know traditionally left click is shoot.

Lets see how it works out.


----------



## illram

Oooh didn't even know that was a thing. I guess I'd be worried about my grip on the mouse with my thumb on the stick? But with how it is vertical maybe that doesn't matter.

Like you I prefer to keep the default control binds I am used to on the right half of the controller on the mouse. So, I personally bind crouch to right click and jump to the G502 thumb button. Then between the 4 directional clickwheel and all the other buttons there's still 10 other buttons to remap to whatever.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 5, 2021)

I had bought one of those, not sure if it was the G502 a few months ago but I couldn't get used to the side button layout  that's why I'm hoping the stick being in one place and it having 5 inputs worth of actions will be good for me.

I'll let you know.

I did try a different ergo mouse like this in store and really liked the feeling. It feels intuitive. Just gotta see if the analog placement here isn't awkward on my hand.


----------



## 340519

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> Just use your oled as your pc monitor. I use a 55' oled as my monitor. Best of both worlds.
> 
> I have an optical running from my tv to my Sony TA-ZH1ES with my MDR-Z1Rs.


I'm similar, but I use the benchmark dac3, the bryston bha1, and the abyss 1266tc phis hooked up to my cx.


----------



## 340519

Hoegaardener70 said:


> Same here. I am tied to console because playing Battlefield againt the kb/m guys on PC ... is no fun at all.


Yes and no cheaters on console. I do not play it on pc any longer due to this problem.


----------



## Shawnb

PC gamer all the way.
I’ll post some pics of my overkill setup once it’s all installed


----------



## Whitigir

I have played with all platforms, and in the past, consoles didn’t have the keyboard and mouse as compatible controllers.  Nowadays they are like a PC but with much more games to choose from.  I also build PC and so on, but the limited games for PC as a platform is never my take.  So, I am with Consoles side.  Whatever consoles, their selection of available games are always awesome


----------



## JES

dmdm said:


> Yes and no cheaters on console. I do not play it on pc any longer due to this problem.


I picked up BF1 for PC recently for $5 or some pittance like that. I played it on Xbox and it was one of my all-time favorites. $5 wasted. The cheating was too much.


----------



## Shawnb

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> Just use your oled as your pc monitor. I use a 55' oled as my monitor. Best of both worlds.
> 
> I have an optical running from my tv to my Sony TA-ZH1ES with my MDR-Z1Rs.



That’s what I’m doing as well. 56” CX as my monitor, looks amazing. Helps that I have a 3090 KPE.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 5, 2021)

I was using my 65" C9 Oled as a monitor, but recently moved to the Samsung G7 monitor. I miss the OLED, but I got tired of sitting with a keyboard on my lap.

I mean I still use it for PC games, but if I can't run a game at 4K or need 240hz, I'll game on the monitor.

Not sure I wanna keep the monitor. I really wish OLED monitors were out already and not $3K.

I may return the monitor and get the 32-40" OLEDs that are supposedly coming.




And here's an older picture showing where the OLED is placed.


----------



## 340519 (Mar 5, 2021)

Yes it's unfortunate


JES said:


> I picked up BF1 for PC recently for $5 or some pittance like that. I played it on Xbox and it was one of my all-time favorites. $5 wasted. The cheating was too much


And the series x really has bridged the gap with 60 fps. Simply beautiful and smooth. I just don't have the need for the pc for modern games, but what I do use it for is all the retro games I have on steam. It's an aorus gigabyte 17g i7 10750 2070s 16gig with ssd. I dig it but the series x is a game changer. Definitely my favorite console of all time, and this is coming from someone who had the ps1, ps2, and 4.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I was using my 65" C9 Oled as a monitor, but recently moved to the Samsung G7 monitor. I miss the OLED, but I got tired of sitting with a keyboard on my lap.
> 
> I mean I still use it for PC games, but if I can't run a game at 4K or need 240hz, I'll game on the monitor.
> 
> ...


Keyboard in your lap? There are 2 possible solutions to that problem.

One is a bigger desk. You can pick up a wood dinner table for cheap. It may seem absurd but you'll get used to it pretty quickly. 

Personally, I have an under the desk keyboard tray mount. So the top of my desk is pretty clear and I pull out my keyboard/mouse tray from under the desk. It just clamps on to the front lip of my desk no problem.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 5, 2021)

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> Keyboard in your lap? There are 2 possible solutions to that problem.
> 
> One is a bigger desk. You can pick up a wood dinner table for cheap. It may seem absurd but you'll get used to it pretty quickly.
> 
> Personally, I have an under the desk keyboard tray mount. So the top of my desk is pretty clear and I pull out my keyboard/mouse tray from under the desk. It just clamps on to the front lip of my desk no problem.


No, I mean that's what I was do when playing on the TV.  I have a 74" desk now, lol. I needed a monitor to put on said desk. So I got one, and now the setup is fine. As you can see on the first image of the last post.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I got the ergo mouse with the analog stick. The analog feels good, but the placement is too far up. I'd pass on it. It feels awkward to utilize, and praying down it like it was a controller R3, will make you move the mouse when you don't want to.


----------



## pr0ximity

I used to be almost exclusively PC, but as I get older I feel being able to pick up a Switch or an XBox controller to resume a game from the couch and then put it down feels like less of a commitment of time. There’s probably not much actual difference between that and sitting down at a desk for a short session, but it feels different psychologically.


----------



## JL Pettimore

I'd love to have a gaming PC but they seem very expensive so I've always used consoles. I'm working my way towards 1000/1000 in Fenyx Rising currently. Whenever I get the Series X, I will do another playthrough on nightmare difficulty. I am really looking forward to playing it at 60fps.


----------



## 340519

JL Pettimore said:


> I'd love to have a gaming PC but they seem very expensive so I've always used consoles. I'm working my way towards 1000/1000 in Fenyx Rising currently. Whenever I get the Series X, I will do another playthrough on nightmare difficulty. I am really looking forward to playing it at 60fps.


I have it on the series x and it runs beautifully.


----------



## JL Pettimore

dmdm said:


> I have it on the series x and it runs beautifully.



I've heard it is a nice upgrade. Does it look better on the 60fps performance setting as well? 

The game is gorgeous even on the XB1 but you can tell everything is down rezzed. There is very little texture to everything and when Fenyx takes off and flies, it's like a wide aperture camera lens effect. Everything in the distance is blurred to help it run smooth. 

Have you played Civ 6 on the Series X? It crashes constantly on XB1.


----------



## 340519

JL Pettimore said:


> I've heard it is a nice upgrade. Does it look better on the 60fps performance setting as well?
> 
> The game is gorgeous even on the XB1 but you can tell everything is down rezzed. There is very little texture to everything and when Fenyx takes off and flies, it's like a wide aperture camera lens effect. Everything in the distance is blurred to help it run smooth.
> 
> Have you played Civ 6 on the Series X? It crashes constantly on XB1.


Yes it does look better.


----------



## AudioManNewb

JES said:


> I picked up BF1 for PC recently for $5 or some pittance like that. I played it on Xbox and it was one of my all-time favorites. $5 wasted. The cheating was too much.


Odd I play every other day and rarely encounter a hacker but I also join custom servers.


----------



## JES

AudioManNewb said:


> Odd I play every other day and rarely encounter a hacker but I also join custom servers.


They weren't custom


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Every time I see this topic I'm interested to know more about it but I just don't have time. I remember my buddies had Ataris and maybe something else and when we were in grade school and then high school we used to hang out and play games on consoles. I haven't seen an updated console or PC game in probably 30 or 40 years. Seems awesome but one of those things that will never make it to the top of my list. Work, cooking, cleaning, music take whatever time I have left.


----------



## AudioManNewb

Yea I play on only the custom or owned by someone else whatever you want to call them. The official dice ones are horrible it is either hackers or someone spamming racist crap.


----------



## Eryc

PC and PS5 currently, prefer PC when possible but Sony has solid exclusives and is where most of my friends play these days.


----------



## 340519

Eryc said:


> PC and PS5 currently, prefer PC when possible but Sony has solid exclusives and is where most of my friends play these days.


I prefer my series x with my cx for shooters, but I can't play Baldur's gate 3 on console, so my gaming pc is great to have.


----------



## Twizzleshnizzle

I was a PC and console gamer, but years of online PC play exposed me to far too many online games spoilt by hacking and cheating. So I hung up my PC boots a few years back just use.  Sadly, PC and console cross-play is now exposing console players to the idiots.


----------



## beanxinh

PC and Switch currently. I used to have ps4 and ps3 but didn't find enough time to play lately so I gave them to my cousins.


----------



## Kurome

PC all the way. I have consoles for exclusives but for everything else, I'm playing it on my PC.


----------



## Blind Joe

I only play pc. I have a powerful machine to work with right away. I can easily play on the TV. I can have 120Fps, not a locked 30fps. I buying games for a few dollars, not the standard price of console games.


----------



## 6PANDEMONIUM6

But the Playstation and Nintendo exclusives keep me coming back.


----------



## Blind Joe

6PANDEMONIUM6 said:


> But the Playstation and Nintendo exclusives keep me coming back.


This is the only argument for consoles for me. Some pc games versions are slowly appearing, but exclusive games will always be. This is the main argument to buy a console (in my opinion)


----------



## JES

This was my first exposure to gaming on a "screen". It was hardwired into a Heathkit TV. 1977 or 1978.







I moved to consoles after that. I've had and played more than I can remember. Last year I bought a gaming laptop and it's improved my gaming experience significantly. Nothing's perfect, but I'm definitely enjoying gaming more that I have in years.


----------



## ddeitz

Started on NES\Sega\PS\PS2 and then I got myself a PC of my own and have never looked back. I bought a PS3 at launch and thought id play it but never really did, put maybe 20 hours total on it over the course of a week and never touched it again. Used it as a blu-ray player a bit but that was it. 

Picked up a switch maybe 1.5 years ago or so and had like 10 hours on it. Bought it to play at work on nights but i just end up listening to audiobooks instead, cant get into playing a portable at home when my PC is right there. Always loved nintendo's game design philosophy of just making crap fun but i never get around to using it.


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## Glouton

PC Gamer // ps5  hockey  lol


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## ochildrift

I prefer PC since it has more variety. Also, mouse and keyboard are easier to use than a console controller


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## Knightyear

PC and switch right now. PC for the big games and the switch for the mobility be: travel, in bed, on the couch etc. The mobility of the switch just makes gaming so cozy.


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## Slaphead

ochildrift said:


> I prefer PC since it has more variety.* Also, mouse and keyboard are easier to use than a console controller*


Not always. For first and third person shooters you are 100% correct, but if you try playing something like Elite, Sturmovik, DCS or Star Wars Squadrons with a mouse and keyboard you'll come unstuck very quickly - actually DCS requires the use of around $600 - $1000 of additional joysticks, throttles and rudder pedals to get the best out of it.

When I'm playing GTA V I use the mouse and keyboard when on foot, but swap to the controller when driving


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## Nebula769

I used to play on ps3 and 3ds but now I only play on my pc.


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## LMTLESS

Both.

PC gaming which practically includes Xbox. However with Sony as much, therefore still have a Playstation.

Also VR on PC is the way.


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## Bobby0Fincher

Hello, everyone. I'm a fan of both console and PC games. But lately, I've been focusing more on consoles. The Xbox One is one of my favorite console. The purpose of this post is to tell all the users of Xbox One. I will tell you how to solve a particular issue of the Xbox One console today. Because this problem happened to me also. The problem is, Xbox One apps are taking too long to start. You can use this article to solve this problem. Although online you will probably find plenty of ways. You can follow that too.


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## Soul Shinobi

Pretty hardcore PC gamer, I can't give up the precision of a mouse and functionality of a full keyboard, but that is dependent on the types of games you like. I have to admit this is such a hard time to be one as graphics cards are almost impossible to find. I did upgrade my CPU to a Ryzen 3600 this year, and helped a friend build a new one but it was a chore finding even a low end GPU.


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## stomaha

PC. Always and forever.


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## EevelutionZ

Both. Mainly plays on PC if the game is offered there, using console for console exclusive titles


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## kochoop

I bought a switch a few years ago. Played for a few hours and then it was untouched until I sold it.

I´ve always had quite powerful computers but then I find myself only playing indie games that dont require anything from your computer such as Noita and Slay the spire which can be run on any potato machine.

Dont have the time to play any time demanding games anymore unfortunately


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## frictiongg

pc

better hardware across the board

prefer mouse and keyboard over controller for most of the games I played

console hardware used to be way behind until some years ago and I just stuck with pc through that time


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## afernandezfada

PC gaming all the way


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## SilverEars

They recently released one of the best looking games ever (PS4 exclusive), 'God of War' for PC yesterday.  I  wish they'd release Bloodborne for PC so we can play 4k 60fps for it.  30fps  is  painful.


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## whirlwind

I have had my same pc build for a little over 10 years.....I am going to start looking at components for another build. i may get a used GPU until prices come down....are all the other components reasonably priced.


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## IceSeven

PC (laptop) gaming


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## deanorthk

PC gaming mostly because the RPG genre I like is there, Baldur's Gate, Jagged Alliance , and I prefer FPS with a mouse... though I do have a PS3 for rock band, uncharted, god of war and a few J RPG that I like to play with a pad
Cyberpunk 2077 for example for me is a no go on console, even more because of the beauty of the game that is.... enhanced by 4K and manye optimisation only possible on PC (and humougous GPU of course, that come at a cost...)


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## AuRiMaS666

I have been a PC gamer all my life, but have owned a PS4 and will own a PS5 for their fantastic exclusives. Xbox is pretty much irrelevant when you game on PC and they release all their games on Windows as well, except maybe a few edge cases like RDR1 with 4K enhanced backwards compatibility and RDR2 for Xbox One X being a superior version to PS4 Pro at the time of release.


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## Amish

I play both but I do prefer PC overall. I have a dedicated VR PC, my main gaming PC, and two others as well as a PS2, PS3, PS4, PS4 Pro, 2DS, Wii U, OLED Switch, Xbox 360, and Xbox One. So yeah I like them all but PC is where my heart is.


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## robm321

PC only


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## Skrowski

Pc only, the versatility of that thing is just insane. I played Fight night round 4 the other day on my pc.. thats a PS3 game.. 
With pc, you can.


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## deanorthk

Amish said:


> I play both but I do prefer PC overall. I have a dedicated VR PC, my main gaming PC, and two others as well as a PS2, PS3, PS4, PS4 Pro, 2DS, Wii U, OLED Switch, Xbox 360, and Xbox One. So yeah I like them all but PC is where my heart is.


That's quite the collection of gaming gear, it's great!! I have left almost everything except my gaming PC, PS3 and PS4pro, and... a PSP OLED that is so incredible for retro gaming and emulation. But pc gaming is something else, a game like Total Warhammer 3 is tailored for pc only, and a game that is in my heart, jagged Alliance 2, would never have existed outside of the pc world
PS3 on the other hand, with things like Rock band 3 with its pro mode for drums...


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## sungmj

Been a console gamer, recently COD vanguard got me converted as I played both XB and PC version, there was no match in gaming experience between the two. Far superior in PC side.


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## topofthepop1

When i see the capacity of my Razer laptop with oled and GTX 2080 Max Q, I really don't have any reason to buy a PS5...


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## ptenorio

I’m mostly console, with life and work it’s hard to actually get gaming sessions in, but I also use a ps5 controller connected via Steam on PC.


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## ptenorio

Anybody tried out the Steam Deck? I know they are sold out currently.


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## Just85

My first experiences with games were on PC in the early nineties. Had one myself, mostly for single player games and later CS. But now I enjoy console more, since my main computer is an iMac and I can use Playstation on TV.


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## carbonchris

PC, I can emulate any console games that I'm interested in. I did use the PS4 for a while before I got my PC


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## whitedragem

As a PC tech of ‘many decades’; I just quietly shut the service shop down well after Win10 came to market.. it was too anticonsumer..
Getting banned from the Forza forum for helping people get their PCs to work (on the most intentionally crippled game ever released) (for 245+ years no less)

Microsoft cannot make money in the PC gaming space; they need gamers on consoles (where they get money from licensed peripheral sales/network subscriptions and money for every gaming title sold); their present ’war’ and massive underhanded tactics to ‘keep PC gaming down’, is just ‘not fun anymore…

It was the basic stuff like playing Wonderboy and having screen pans ‘to the left’ be jerky.. or 25 mins to get Forza started, due to ‘optimising my system’ (and then defaulting to a bunch of setting to make it subpar to an XBOX’)..
Collusions in the industry to bury technologies and my twin Vega 64 GB quad channel ram 6core/12 thread 5Ghz beast has sat in the corner for two years plus ‘gathering dust’.
I did sell the Vega 64 (’Vegas) during the height of the video card shortage (for well below market average due to ‘ethics’) even gave away older Nvidia GTX 970 etc..

It was the little things like ‘foistered security updates‘ that were fake/‘unnecessary’ that would cripple my 16megabytes of CPU cache (so my three year old CPU would perform worse than new ‘budget’ models from Intel coming to market)- thats right - the Wintel Consortium is a ‘thing’; they control the market without regulation and can do whatever they want.. and they don’t care about ‘endusers’ (same as Nvidia)- just evil evil tactics every step of the way (optimise stuff to perform worse on the competitors system even if it means making it run ‘poorly’ on your own product)..
It is the worst of consumerism,.. and then Microsoft actively went to all software partners and app developers and asked them to build ‘overlay’ apps.. knowing that this is a sure fire way to interrupt games and make the gaming experience subpar on PC (ensures ‘Xbox gaming- what they need to recoup ten years+ of gaming industry losses)

They realised that the entire PC gaming market was about to leave their control when Vulkan and ‘to the metal‘ APIs were coming to market (Direct X HAS NEVER BEEN A ‘to the metal API’ ie we pay for ridiculous hardware power but can never tap it)- Vulkan and ‘other APIs (specific to AMD and Nvidia) would have allowed gamers to jump ship to Apple/Linux,.. so they incorporated it into the new Direct X (DX12) and then buried all the features that would prove useful to gamers (such as using two different video cards for multicard gaming- even across hardware ecosystems - ie AMD and Nvidia).. the only real feature they lean on is the ‘store all textures as one large texture’ file, and that is only cause it is an easy way to cripple 30% plus performance from graphics rendering.. (they set the Xbox one to 5Gb of graphics RAM allocation and the Xbox One X to 9GB (when consumer cards were 4Gb and 8Gb respectively); in Forza they even took it a step further and actually ‘encrypted‘ the graphics file (larger than any video card had in available RAM (at the time)), the PC had to constantly do math to do ‘decryption’ (one of the biggest CPU math hits).. and then put the decryption pass on the primary CPU core responsible of the games minimum framerate.. 
meant that PC would sit there using 12-20% of a users total CPU power (one core overloaded and bottlenecking the throughput) and the game would run poorly/‘no better than a console’.
When Turn10 got the dev kits for the Scorpio (/xbox x) they detuned the PC graphics with lower draw distances (equal to what the new ‘super console’ would do) and then fixed the ‘single core game’ to run, again, no better than a Console (potatoe powered or otherwise)

Sure, third parties will keep it honest..
but Microsoft owning the UeFI BIOS means ‘not friendly to dual booting’ (enjoy running windoze), and making DX12 a ‘how its meant to be crippled’ affair - Microsoft NEED gamers on console and hence don’t want PCs to render better than consoles (ever noticed how bad HDR support is on your PC? -that is no accident!)..

They have done this all before- remember when ‘hardware sound died’ (with Vista) cause Xboxs had the nforce chipset…  (sure drink the coolaid.. the HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) stopped all the old sound cards working.. Daniel K showed us this wasn’t true(he hacked creative drivers in a heartbeat.. ))

microsoft, when they realised they lost this last console round to the Playstation 5, doubled down on a cheap console.. they went to the hardware team with the attitue ‘make it cheap’ at next refresh.. a console purely designed around making the replacement (series S version II) as cheap as possible.. they then came up with the RAM specs etc.. The series S outselss the series X at a rate of 2:1.. and it is obvious from early build testings that the Series S is the platform the internal teams are optimising for..
Which also means that PC games have a new low bar set as the standard..

Now I fully agree that ‘other companies’ bringing games to PC is ‘a great thing’ and will keep things going.
(great that Sony will release games on PC, as it will stymy pc gamers moving to XBOX when they have had enough.. and as someone who lived and breathed those Forza threads when their anticonsumer practices were in full effect- so many gamers did ‘just that’ (I will buy an xbox cause it just works)(in HDR too).
So tactics like altering Direct X inputs that hadn’t been changed in 20 years, would make my steering wheel gear 1 be gear 6 or reverse.. and games released a ‘few years ago’ don’t get patches for when mickeysoft break stuff.. it just remains broken.

The PC is a horrible platform to game on due to ‘anti consumerism’.. savage industry practices.. and M$ need to recoup ten years + of losing money in the games market.
All those buyouts and tactics and money lost WILL NEED TO BE RECOUPED.. and (having serviced PC tech since the eighties), Microsoft only play nice when they are loosing.
If they get a foothold again, they will make that money back (which basically requires moving gamers from PC- the only reason they allow PC gaming in a ‘loose’ sense right now is that they count WinX installs as ‘Xbox consoles’ (so they can mislead developers that they have unit sales)(ahem ‘xbox live contact hours’- the reason I had to reinstall Forza 3 times in a month at one point.. the download time was ‘contact hours’)

They are an evil company and don’t care about ANYONE but the share holders..
PC gaming was great.. until gaming became such big business that microsoft ‘got involved’.
I totally agree on Keyboard and mouse gameplay and RTS and ‘some genres’ of games being VASTLY better on PC (no argument),.. but when I game I don’t want constant hassles..
(like in forza - having to force core 0 off, having to set program affinity to ‘very low’ and ‘all the opposite things a user should need do to make software work’) (the ’games mode’ that made games run worse, and was then forced on, on all software.. hence no games run in ‘full screen mode’ anymore (needed for best performance)

They know how to cripple, and they get away with it..
Pc gaming is paying a lot of money for VERY POWERFUL HARDWARE, and then not getting ‘bugger all’ of the performance.
Console gaming equals an ecosystem that is optimised for (so long as console hardware has long lifetimes and get ‘second wave releases(not in a microsoft ecosystem)), console gaming is fun and enjoyable.. sure ‘costs a little more’ per title and ‘network costs’, but the reliable experience with less cheating/hacking and hardware that just works/works flawlessly/reliably means that on Saturday morning when I get 30 mins of time to game, I don’t lose 25 minutes to rebooting a title to have it work (poorly) (sure this is Microsoft titles only, but then, ‘haven’t they been buying up a lot of developers?)- their titles will be optimised for Series S (version 2), and will perform at 60 fps (not faster) and have ‘artificial limitations’ in the PC space that are not necessary.. (ie it sells better if the console gamers can say “look- it is running PC ultra details”; so you think PC ultra details are going to make use of your nice high end tech…?

PC is good for learning a craft- servicing computers
PCs are good for doing tasks (many of which can be done on a twenty year old PC or a lap friendly/couch friendly tablet)
PCs are dying cause’ “Macroshaft”

I game on console cause I like having fun when gaming, and don’t mind having titles perform in a way that works well on my TV (eg HDR and 60 frames per second); given most peoples 4K TVs don’t render 800 lines of ‘motion resolution’ I am happy with variable resolution technologies pushing for 1440 res (at 60 fps in HDR and NO SCREEN TEARING).

Sure I miss 200 hz gaming (doing since the nineties), sure miss having $500 sound cards for ultimate sound output etc.. 
But I don’t miss wanting throw my mouse out the window cause of ‘anti end user sentiments to attempt to force me to buy an XBOX’; 
friends don’t let friends buy Microsoft (and ‘any competing product to the microsoft product is generally the ‘better product’)
as a PC tech and hardware expert for ‘many decades’ and who has been in game development and ‘understand the industry’; not even a new Bethesda game is going to get me on a PC.. (okay, MAYBE on a PC.. but certainly not an XBOX.. sadly one is the gateway drug to the other(if microsoft can ‘have their way’- history says they will do ANY underhanded tactic until they do)

I know this is a loaded post.. and “I am just the messenger”.. 
but I believe in ‘educate the end user’ (teach a person to fish)

please be repsectful with your comments (hurting me won’t fix the PC!)


Food for thunk- if Direct X 12 actually did what it was supposed to do, I’d still happily be playing battlefield 1 at 4K HDR in ultra details, sound output from my Xonar STX, sipping a lowly 80watts of power per video card.. and future titles would make great use of my 24 teraflops of power.. 
And please- I just upgraded my nephews PC last week (a PC I fully built for him) with a new graphics card, and next week will be a friends PC.
This week I am hoping to service a different friends PC sound setup.. 
I am not incapable of making this stuff work.. (heck I was rebuiling PCs 30 years ago and doing ‘very high end‘ tricks with PC hardware before Windows was an operating system..)

I like PCs/like PC hardware.. and if modern Direct X came to linux or modern games get written for platform agnostic APIs, then ‘call me a PC gamer’; 
as an adult with limited time up my sleeve and a love to enjoy time with my family, picking up four Playstation 5 controllers and duking out Spongebob vs Invader Zim (or Returnal or Gran Turismo etc etc- heck console Elden Ring is ‘good enough’.. ) I play ‘games‘ and not systems;; I don’t have times to ‘play hardware troubleshooting‘ on my saturday morning free time.

(remember ‘just a messenger’)


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## ptenorio

Awesome post , very informative, with kids and work I definitely agree that time is limited for gaming.


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## whirlwind

PC


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## Zeno26

Mostly on Pc, but I do play on my ps5 as well when I feel like playing some awesome single player games that I can't play on my pc.


----------



## wailord

played pc and console since I was young but have a hard preference for pc


----------



## Drak3

played on console and pc.


----------



## Twizzleshnizzle

Whether on PC or console, I do miss CRT gaming.


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## hifi nub

pc since 1990, Wolfenstein 3d was my first fps.


----------



## Kukuk

My new toy basically splits the difference between console, handheld, and PC.

I feel like the best use care for this might be to play PS3/360 era games. Playing FFXIII, even with 8xAA, the GPU sits at like 30-50% usage. If I'm playing a game that taxes the GPU 100% the battery life is only like an hour.


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## hifi nub

looking to upgrade to


Kukuk said:


> My new toy basically splits the difference between console, handheld, and PC.
> 
> I feel like the best use care for this might be to play PS3/360 era games. Playing FFXIII, even with 8xAA, the GPU sits at like 30-50% usage. If I'm playing a game that taxes the GPU 100% the battery life is only like an hour.



You say taxes?


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## Radio81

Kukuk said:


> My new toy basically splits the difference between console, handheld, and PC.
> 
> I feel like the best use care for this might be to play PS3/360 era games. Playing FFXIII, even with 8xAA, the GPU sits at like 30-50% usage. If I'm playing a game that taxes the GPU 100% the battery life is only like an hour.




I've had my 256GB for almost a couple of months.  It's great.  Yes, I agree if it's mostly for portable use you're best suited with older games.  Though if at home or docked, it's not an issue.  There are options like Deck Mate and others that have clip-on battery bank attachments.  If you look on Etsy, there's a ton of options for accessories.

As a reference, playing Halo MCC I get a little under 3 hours, and playing Ori & The Blind Forest I get a little over 5 hours.  This is with default settings on each game, brightness a touch under medium, and volume at an audible level.


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## Grunt66 (Oct 3, 2022)

PC gamer EVGA 3090 Hybrid, LG 48CX OLED.


----------



## Deekay896

I used to be mainly a console player, until my friends finally convinced me to build a pc which eventually led me to discovering custom keyboards and the audiophile lobby.

I still play both, but PC is where it's at for me since all my friends are there now and it has so much more to offer.


----------



## magicspot

Just got a 3090FE and making the move back to PC gaming. Picked up destiny 2 which I havent played in years.


----------



## BBuzecky

Why choose when you can have both?  Amazing exclusives on console and PC unique gaming experience.


----------



## Elen

I prefer to play games on the PC, to play in my opinion is much more convenient in terms of control than on the console.


----------



## AnalogEuphoria

Started off as a playstation fan growing up and then went hardcore on pc but go sick of the hassle and distractions so just went back to playstation and been really enjoying gaming these past few years.


----------



## YungOmbat

hifi nub said:


> pc since 1990, Wolfenstein 3d was my first fps.


thats one sick build


----------



## oqvist

I do both but preferr the more powerful format with better controls. Most of the time that is pc and that is why pc gamers often are called elitistic 

Simplicity with console are quite nice though and for many genres very sufficient. Can easily live with less impressive graphics most of the time.


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## Lado75

Console all the way now. Playing on PC takes too much cash and the outlay feels like it never ends to play the games to their full extent.


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