# Musiland Monitor 01 USD 24/192 USB to SPDIF



## TheShaman

Looks interesting, to say the least!
 XILINX, pulse transformers, drivers etc and the price is certainly right (at the moment)...
 There is also the "Monitor 01 US" (not USD) version with a DAC and headphone amp.

Manufacturer's website.
Ebay auction ($75).


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## Mik

At that price, it looks tempting. I'll try it out.


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## TheShaman

It certainly does!
 Please report back if you do try it out.
 Looks like a nice match for my Buffalo DAC!


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## Mik

Will do. I bought one from ebay just now. I'll compare it to my Trends converter when it arrives.


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## Cankin

All I need now is a USB to SPDIF converter and my rig is done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm considering this one or M Audio Transit


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## hrjacob

Does any of you know if it'll work in Mac OS X?


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## Mik

I only see Windows drivers on the site for now.


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## ericj

fwiw "xilinx" is a vendor of programmable gate arrays. how "good" the part on the board is, is determined by how good the program it's running is. 

 The other major chip on the board looks like a Cypress EZ-USB interface. 

 My guess is that the musiland people took some notes from the other high resolution usb audio devices on the market and just configured the ez-usb chip to behave as though it's a standard usb audio device that happens to support some higher bandwidth modes -- this is how the M-Audio and Tascam devices work, at least. 

 Also, both of these chips don't have to be programmed at the factory - there's a fair chance that these are just so much digital playdough until the device driver uploads some firmware files. 

 So, since I use linux more often than windows, until i see an alsa driver for these, I'm not interested. plus i already have an m-audio transit anyhow.


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## Lil' Knight

So does this transport can truly support 24/192?


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## ericj

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So does this transport can truly support 24/192?_

 

That's the claim. It's all custom though - no off the shelf spdif transmitter - so who knows for sure?


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## Lil' Knight

hmmm, one question.
 If I want to feed my external DAC (which doesn't have USB input) by optical, which is better? Using the USB transport (this one or the M-Audio Transit) or optical out of the Sound Card Blaster Audigy 2 ZS?


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## dukja

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will do. I bought one from ebay just now. I'll compare it to my Trends converter when it arrives._

 

Please please let us know how does it go. I am also looking for low jitter USB->coax converter to feed my Audiosector NOS DAC. I was thinking about trends but really dislike getting a full DAC along (plus its size). This Musiland may be the solution with its small size if it sound great.

 Thanks in advance!


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## fiber404

Let us know how it goes - I'm interesting in picking one up. 

 If you could take some pictures - that'd be nice too.


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## Mik

Will do. It hasn't arrived yet. Maybe in a week or so.


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## glt

Very interesting little device. Uses "ASIO" type of driver. Lets us know if it works with iTunes...


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## Mik

The ebay seller apparently had trouble meeting demand so my unit only shipped out earlier this week. Hopefully it will arrive next week. I will be testing it on a Windows XP PC with foobar2000. Sorry, I don't want itunes on my computer.


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## Shiki

I got mine today.

 It comes in a plain old cardboard box. Inside, there's the device, a driver CD, USB cable (about 5 inches long), warranty card and installation guide.

 The latest driver is v1.3.0, which you can get here:

http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.3.0.zip

 The device itself is about the size of a 2.5'' hard disk.

 On one side are the RCA and BNC connectors. On the other are the USB and TOSLINK ones.

 I've done some testing with foobar2000 and playing some movies. It does 5.1 channel AC3 passthrough. The box also says DTS, but I haven't tested that yet.

 With foobar2000, you can add it as an ASIO device. When switching between 44.1 and 96KHz files it switches the output sample rate by itself (the display on my 840C says that). I don't have any 192KHz files to try.

 Also, it installs a traybar icon which opens up a simple control panel to adjust the volume. It also displays the current output sample rate.


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## dukja

Thanks for the update. And certainly you will let us know how it sounds (compare to USB), right?


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## cclragnarok

Does the control panel allow you to mute the outputs separately?


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## Shiki

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cclragnarok* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does the control panel allow you to mute the outputs separately?_

 

No, it doesn't. There's a master volume control and then separate controls for WDM and ASIO. You can adjust left and right channels separately if you want.

 You can adjust the sample rate for WDM manually. The default is AUTO. There's also a setting for ASIO buffer size.

 And that's about it.


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## Cankin

Did anyone try it with WASAPI under foobar2000? Mine didn't work.


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## cclragnarok

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shiki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, it doesn't. There's a master volume control and then separate controls for WDM and ASIO. You can adjust left and right channels separately if you want.

 You can adjust the sample rate for WDM manually. The default is AUTO. There's also a setting for ASIO buffer size.

 And that's about it._

 


 Thanks for the info. I guess I'll wait and see if they make a version with both analog and coaxial outputs.


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## justin2net

Hmm, that's interesting. Is it absolutely bit perfect if it has a master volume control? I mean, it would alter the digital output when changing the volume...this isn't a DAC...

 Could you find some 192 khz material to try?
 You can PM me.

 Thank you for your observations so far.


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## Skorpitarius

I don't understand the use of this thing - forgive the noob-ness of my question or whatever but - if I have a headphone amp that has USB , do I need one of these or ?
 If yes, why ? I do prefer to hear 24 bit music when at all possible ...
 Just not sure of the application of these converters ..


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## Kpalsm

This one is really only useful to you if you want to have an optical TOSLINK output from your computer and you don't have one for whatever reason (for example, you want to digitally hook up your computer to a home A/V receiver). I came across this looking for the opposite...a way to get a TOSLINK INPUT into my computer. Haven't had much luck there but barely looked anyways...


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## Shiki

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin2net* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, that's interesting. Is it absolutely bit perfect if it has a master volume control? I mean, it would alter the digital output when changing the volume...this isn't a DAC...

 Could you find some 192 khz material to try?
 You can PM me.

 Thank you for your observations so far._

 

I think it should be bit perfect if you leave the volume at max? I don't have equipment to test it though.

 As for 192KHz output, I added the resampler in foobar, set it to 192KHz and my DAC says that it's receiving 192KHz so it seems to be working.


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## Nick 214

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skorpitarius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't understand the use of this thing - forgive the noob-ness of my question or whatever but - if I have a headphone amp that has USB , do I need one of these or ?
 If yes, why ? I do prefer to hear 24 bit music when at all possible ...
 Just not sure of the application of these converters .._

 

It's for those of use who use DACs (or in my case, a DAC, Word Clock, Upsampler) that only have S/PDIF inputs, not usb. It's a gloried converter. 

 (You do not need it)

 NK


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## Skorpitarius

ah ok thanks Nick and others ... I have a Compass which I am using the USB with ... sounds good but i'd love to hear more bits ....


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## Mik

Just trying out my Musiland Monitor01 USD for the first time today. It works at passing through 24/96 just fine. So far I can't hear any differences between it and my Trends at 16/44.1. The ASIO drivers work without any problems in foobar on XP.


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## dukja

Cool! Have been waiting for your update for a long time. Could you let us know more when you have time for more serious listening? It could be very good solution for us. Or maybe your DAC is just so good that your system become transport (USD) independent.

 Thanks!


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## justin2net

Does it work without the supplied drivers (as a generic USB audio device)?


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## TheShaman

...and the $1.000.000 question:
 Can it give 24/192 bit-perfect on it's output?


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## Mik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheShaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...and the $1.000.000 question:
 Can it give 24/192 bit-perfect on it's output?_

 

I just tested playing a 24/192 flac file in foobar on XP with the Musiland feeding my Cambridge 840C. The 840C shows the input as 20/192. I don't know if that's a foobar quirk or a Musiland problem. Any ideas?

 And it does play out of my 840C.


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## keyid

Mik, how does the musiland as a transport compare to your Azur 840c? Have you tried running them both into the dacmagic to compare same music?


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## Mik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *keyid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mik, how does the musiland as a transport compare to your Azur 840c? Have you tried running them both into the dacmagic to compare same music?_

 

I haven't tried that yet. I've mainly been comparing my new Audio-gd dac to my 840C's dac. I'll try a Musiland vs. 840C transport comparison in the next few days.


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## Mik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *justin2net* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you find some 192 khz material to try?_

 

There are some 24/96 and 24/192 samples available here: High Resolution Music DOWNLOAD services.


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## Mik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dukja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool! Have been waiting for your update for a long time. Could you let us know more when you have time for more serious listening? It could be very good solution for us. Or maybe your DAC is just so good that your system become transport (USD) independent.

 Thanks!_

 

So far it sounds as good as the Trends, with the added bonus of supporting higher bit and sampling rates. You don't have to fiddle with asio4all on the Musiland. The Musiland is also smaller, and looks and feels better than the Trends.

 That it sounds the same as the Trends at 16/44.1 is actually a good thing in my opinion. I've heard usb audio conversion done poorly as well. For example, the Trends (and Musiland) both sound better converting usb to spdif than does the usb to spdif converter built-in to my DacMagic.

 All that and the Musiland is less expensive than the Trends. I can easily recommend it as my favourite usb to spdif converter to date. I can't say whether there will be any issues running it on Vista or Windows 7 though.


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## Mr.Duck

Interesting product. Can it support vista 64? If you have to use their drivers than that is a shame.

 What about the USB transfer mode? If it is steaming USB audio then it's not much better than spdif. Jitter performance will not be great in other words since USB runs at a multiple of 48MHz, most these USB devices use some PLL to generate 44.1 KHz clocks.

 Alowing the transport to control the audio transfer is the proper way to do it. I believe Empirical Audio Off-Ramp does it properly. But then so does Emu 0404 USB. AFAIK M-Audio transit isn't good enough since it is just a simple streaming device like 90% or more of these USB devices.


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## radio

I am also intrested in this product as it is exactly something i can use to feed sound out of my laptop to the vda2.

 The people who have this product i have a couple of questions.

 - How much CPU does this use when you are using audio that is being streamed through this device.

 - How is the sound quality.. i read the whole thread and i have not read anything specific about sound quality.

 - Would like to confirm if it is bit perfect so if you run hd dd or hd dts would it pass through to a reciever...

 - Any differences between coax / optical output?


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## Mik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr.Duck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting product. Can it support vista 64? If you have to use their drivers than that is a shame._

 

It requires drivers. I don't know of any 24/192 usb audio device that doesn't require drivers. USB 2.0 is required to support 24/192 and there is no native USB 2.0 audio support in any version of Windows.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr.Duck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What about the USB transfer mode? If it is steaming USB audio then it's not much better than spdif. Jitter performance will not be great in other words since USB runs at a multiple of 48MHz, most these USB devices use some PLL to generate 44.1 KHz clocks.

 Alowing the transport to control the audio transfer is the proper way to do it. I believe Empirical Audio Off-Ramp does it properly. But then so does Emu 0404 USB. AFAIK M-Audio transit isn't good enough since it is just a simple streaming device like 90% or more of these USB devices._

 

I assume by "using the transport to control the audio transfer", you mean asynchronous usb. The Emu products do something like that by running in some sort of mass storage device mode using their own drivers. I don't know of any other usb to spdif converter that uses asynchronous mode or something like it. The Empirical Audio devices use adaptive mode at the moment, but that may change later in the year. Last I checked, Wavelength Audio had no plans of making a usb to spdif converter using its asynchronous usb technology. I don't know which usb mode is used by the Musiland, but it is also an $80-ish device that does up to 24/192 over usb and sounds as good as I've heard usb audio sound. If it cost $1000+ I would be disappointed if it didn't use asynchronous usb, but for $80 I'm very happy with it.


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## Mr.Duck

Some USB devices can do 24/96 with standard windows drivers. I think that is preferable to a 24/192 device that requires custom drivers.

 I'm not 100% sure on all the details, but yes I think I mean asynchronous USB. It is where the USB device controls the flow of music data from the PC, as opposed to the PC streaming music data to the USB device. I've no idea what adaptive mode is.

 The only other external device I know of that can output 24/192 spdif is an RME Fireface. Nevermind a 24/192 USB audio device that doesn't require drivers... is there any other USB device at all that can do 24/192 spdif?


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## slim.a

Hi,
 I just got my Musiland Monitor 01 USD yesterday.
 So far I have listened to it for around for around 2 hours and it is much better sounding than the EMU 0404 USB used as transport.
 I have tried it with 16/44, 24/88 and 24/96 and it works flawlessly either in foobar or windows media player. (I haven't tried 24/192 since my DAC doesn't support sample rates higher than 96.)


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## NiToNi

Can this be modded with a word clock input (in place of the crystal) so it could be a slaved transport? That'd be a killer!


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## linuxworks

I'm slightly tempted to check this out.

 any confirmations that it at least works at 44.1/16 on linux?


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## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mr.Duck* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some USB devices can do 24/96 with standard windows drivers. I think that is preferable to a 24/192 device that requires custom drivers._

 

its possible the device uses standard usb protocols but that it does a firmware download (to the device from the pc) at power-on time. pretty common to suck down firmware via usb for 'extensions' or more updated functionality.

 so the fact that it needs xylinx code does not mean it will not work with regular old usb-audio.


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## Lil' Knight

Would be interesting if there are some comparisons with the M-audio Transit.


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So far it sounds as good as the Trends, with the added bonus of supporting higher bit and sampling rates. You don't have to fiddle with asio4all on the Musiland. The Musiland is also smaller, and looks and feels better than the Trends.

 That it sounds the same as the Trends at 16/44.1 is actually a good thing in my opinion. I've heard usb audio conversion done poorly as well. For example, the Trends (and Musiland) both sound better converting usb to spdif than does the usb to spdif converter built-in to my DacMagic.

 All that and the Musiland is less expensive than the Trends. I can easily recommend it as my favourite usb to spdif converter to date. I can't say whether there will be any issues running it on Vista or Windows 7 though._

 

How do you power your Trends?


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## Andrew_WOT

The first picture shows bnc and coax out, the board shows toslink and usb input.
 What is the actual configuration. Does it have bnc and coax on front and usb and toslink on the back? The input is only USB, right? Does it actually accept 24/192?


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## krusty09

yes it has one usb input on one side and a bnc and optical output one the other.

 this works with vista 64bit home edition and it sounds great with my stello dac.


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *krusty09* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes it has one usb input on one side and a bnc and optical output one the other.

 this works with vista 64bit home edition and it sounds great with my stello dac._

 

Yes? Sorry, your answer is a bit confusing.
 The spec says coax, bnc and opical. I see just coax and bnc on this picture, so I assume usb and optical are on the other side, not what you stated. BTW, Stello has quite decent USB implementation, have you noticed any improvement playing RedBook material over Stello with ASIO4ALL.


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## Andrew_WOT

This is actually 01 US but I guess USD looks the same from behind


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## DoYouRight

USB to optical work? since they are on the same side?

 Or do you pick one and output to BNC/RCA?

 THIS LOOKS SWEET!


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_USB to optical work? since they are on the same side?

 Or do you pick one and output to BNC/RCA?

 THIS LOOKS SWEET!_

 

I doubt that anything except USB to everything else works as any conversion requires power and only USB can carry some.


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## DoYouRight

What I mean is, usb > bnc/rca but can it do usb/optical since both are on the same side of the unit.

 i know usb is the start, are their 3 end points? bnc, rca, optical?


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What I mean is, usb > bnc/rca but can it do usb/optical since both are on the same side of the unit.

 i know usb is the start, are their 3 end points? bnc, rca, optical?_

 

If it can't work as in due to lack of external power, what else it's good for?


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## kukku

Can we extract I2S signal from Musiland 01 USD ? If it does, it is good transport for DIY DAC.

 I think it is possible on Musiland 01 US (or 02 US) b/c it has PCM1793 on board


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## linuxworks

if you only want i2s (which is just a 'cleanly separated clock and data' - why not just a gamma1 lite? the pcm chip it uses separates the 2 just fine and is the heat of many of the usb 'audio output' devices, both digital and analog (and even i2s if you want all those extra wires, lol)


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## linuxworks

if anyone who has one of these could also take maybe an hour of time and download/burn a live ubuntu cdrom and do a live-boot (not install, but just a cdrom based test drive) and let us know if the device is even seen by linux? or if it tries to get its xilinx ucode from the pc? there are ways to snag the microcode so that fxload (I think that's what its called) can supply it when the usb device cold boots (power-on, microcode download).

 I'm tempted to get one and try, but I really don't want to be stuck with a windows-only device. (otoh, I'm game to order one and try if someone who *wants* the windows side of things is willing to buy mine if it won't run on linux) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but a quick boot on a live cdrom based linux system and a few commands should give us an idea if this can be made to work for more than windows, or not.

 anyone up for it, that has one at home?


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## DoYouRight

Andrew what are you talking about? Can you plug usb into your pc, and plug optical into your dac and run it? thats all I want to know


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## HeatFan12

I believe he's talking about a lack of PSU on it.

 I have a couple of these converters (not the one mentioned here) and one of them has an optional psu. On the one with the psu, if you input usb you do not need the psu. The psu is only needed if you want to input optical and output coax or vice versa (for whatever reason).

 However, what makes this one a bit confusing is the optical is on the usb (input) side. Usually, inputs on one side and outputs on the other with these converters. Unless it has optical and usb input.


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## kukku

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if you only want i2s (which is just a 'cleanly separated clock and data' - why not just a gamma1 lite? the pcm chip it uses separates the 2 just fine and is the heat of many of the usb 'audio output' devices, both digital and analog (and even i2s if you want all those extra wires, lol)_

 

the reason I ask for I2S from this Musiland is that The y1 and some other common USB receivers can't work with 24/96 or 24/192 natively.

 I currently try to implement following setup for my laptop:

 PC ->USB receiver capable of 24/192 ->I2S->DAC capable of 24/192 -> balanced buffer -> B22 balanced 

 I don't want over sampling rate by ASRC up-sample in the DAC. So, with this setup, if I want to, I still can over sampling by using PC plug-in software. Also, I can play source that has high sampling rate natively (96 or 192)

 Again, can any one please check if I2S can be pulled form Musiland ?

 thanks


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Andrew what are you talking about? Can you plug usb into your pc, and plug optical into your dac and run it? thats all I want to know_

 

Sorry for the confusion, I meant if conversion from optical IN requires external power and unit does not have one, optical can only be used as OUT. Unless of course they allow to use USB in as power line which is possible but very unlikely.


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kukku* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the reason I ask for I2S from this Musiland is that The y1 and some other common USB receivers can't work with 24/96 or 24/192 natively.

 I currently try to implement following setup for my laptop:

 PC ->USB receiver capable of 24/192 ->I2S->DAC capable of 24/192 -> balanced buffer -> B22 balanced 

 I don't want over sampling rate by ASRC up-sample in the DAC. So, with this setup, if I want to, I still can over sampling by using PC plug-in software. Also, I can play source that has high sampling rate natively (96 or 192)

 Again, can any one please check if I2S can be pulled form Musiland ?

 thanks_

 

Software does upsampling, DAC oversampling, slightly different things. You can disable upsampling on some DACs, but not oversampling, unless it's NOS to begin with.
 Some info here and in linked white papers http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f133/u...ng-nos-395439/


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## DoYouRight

input usb, output optical?


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## roadtonowhere08

On the ebay link, it states that USB is input, and everything else is output. That might clear some questions that were posed on this thread.

 I am interested in this but I have a few thoughts/questions:


 - Anyone know what brand capacitors are on this board? Looks like Rubycon, but the pictures are too small to confirm. 
 - Why have a volume slider for the ASIO output?
 - There was mention of a Cambridge CDP reporting 20/192 when it was fed with 24/192. Were all of the volume sliders maxed when this was reported? 
 - I owned a Sndscape cinema, and the drivers were crap. Anyone have any problems with these using Vista x64 or 7 x64?
 - Anyone know if the BNC connector is a true 75ohm connector? I read that the true ones do not have the Teflon shielding by the copper signal pin. Can anyone perhaps take a picture to confirm either way?


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## yoginasser

Has anyone here tried their Monitor 01 US DAC?


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## DoYouRight

im getting one to compare to the bel canto usblink


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## Patu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_im getting one to compare to the bel canto usblink_

 

Just the comparison I was expecting. Can't wait to read your impressions.


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## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just the comparison I was expecting. Can't wait to read your impressions._

 

Transit would do too, as it's comparable (same level) to Bel Canto link.


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## Patu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Transit would do too, as it's comparable (same level) to Bel Canto link._

 

I've briefly auditioned Bel Canto's USB Link and it didn't impress me that much. It sounded more digital to me than a regular bit perfect optical output via cheap sound card + cmediadrivers.


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## Shiki

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roadtonowhere08* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_- There was mention of a Cambridge CDP reporting 20/192 when it was fed with 24/192. Were all of the volume sliders maxed when this was reported?_

 

I use an 840C and I also get this issue with the volume sliders maxed on my Musiland.

 It happens with the on-board Realtek audio and M-Audio Transit I used to have too. They show up as <= 20-bit on my 840C even when I've set the output to 24-bit.

 The only source where it has ever displayed 24-bit for me is a Sound Blaster X-Fi 5.1 USB.

 The 840C's manual says that it simply displays the word width that the source says it is, regardless of what it actually is.


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## roadtonowhere08

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shiki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use an 840C and I also get this issue with the volume sliders maxed on my Musiland.

 It happens with the on-board Realtek audio and M-Audio Transit I used to have too. They show up as <= 20-bit on my 840C even when I've set the output to 24-bit.

 The only source where it has ever displayed 24-bit for me is a Sound Blaster X-Fi 5.1 USB.

 The 840C's manual says that it simply displays the word width that the source says it is, regardless of what it actually is._

 

Very interesting, thanks for your input. I wonder why the two sources you mentioned would report incorrect bit depth if what they are sending is correct.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 EDIT: Anyone have an idea as to who makes the capacitors inside? If anyone has one, a game of "peek-a-boo" would be very appreciated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, anyone using Windows 7 RC X64 with this?

 If the parts are good, and the drivers are good, I might pull the trigger.


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## dugq

This could be just what I've been looking for. One question though, can anyone confirm if 24/192 is available via the optical output? I've seen quite a few products that offer 24/192 via coax but only 24/96 through optical.


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## DoYouRight

I think only coax does 192, but maybe Im wrong.


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## linuxworks

toslink can also run that high, I believe, but you need special toslink blocks for it.

Digi-Key - TORX142L-ND (Toshiba - TORX142L)

 torx142 has a 25mhz base rate. most of the others are 6mhz or 15mhz.

 one of them (non standard connector, for audio) supporting even 125mhz!

Digi-Key - TORX1400F-ND (Toshiba - TORX1400(F))






 so, I think its possible. is it a good idea? not sure


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## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dugq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This could be just what I've been looking for. One question though, can anyone confirm if 24/192 is available via the optical output? I've seen quite a few products that offer 24/192 via coax but only 24/96 through optical._

 

btw, the frequency (bit rate * word length, pretty much) is what matters.

 from a table I found online:


 2.8224 Mbit/s 44.1 kHz sampling rate, CD, DAT
 3.0720 Mbit/s 48 kHz sampling rate, DAT
 2.0480 Mbit/s 32 kHz sampling rate, for satellite purposes

 those are for the 'old' sample rates.

 if we take 3mhz as the 48k rate (close enough) and multiply it by 4 for 192 we get 12mhz.

 my guess is that the 16mhz parts may work and the 25mhz parts really *should* work ok, for toslink.

 realize you need 'good parts' on both sides to make it work.


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## insyte

Can anyone compare this with the m audio transit?


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## dugq

I've just heard back from the e-bay seller that this does support 24/192 over toslink! Looks like I'll be getting one of these.


----------



## gevorg

Is the USB interface synchronous or asynchronous?

 Is it bitperfect (i.e. does not resample, etc)?


----------



## linuxworks

take what 'sellers' have to say with a grain of salt, please.

 they frequently know very little about their products when it comes to the finer details. they are simply SELLERS. don't confuse them with folks like us who know our details 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 more than once I've seen really wrong info come back from so-called power sellers.


----------



## dugq

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_take what 'sellers' have to say with a grain of salt, please.

 they frequently know very little about their products when it comes to the finer details. they are simply SELLERS. don't confuse them with folks like us who know our details 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 more than once I've seen really wrong info come back from so-called power sellers._

 

LOL, quite right. But I've been looking for a USB > toslink interface for a while and was about to get a EMU 0404 which only offers 24/96 and is about 3 times the cost. The only 24/192 interfaces I've seen are costly pro-audio firewire. So if it does 24/192, sweet, if not, it's still a saving on the 0404. I'll report back with my findings once I've got it.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dugq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LOL, quite right. But I've been looking for a USB > toslink interface for a while and was about to get a EMU 0404 which only offers 24/96 and is about 3 times the cost. The only 24/192 interfaces I've seen are costly pro-audio firewire. So if it does 24/192, sweet, if not, it's still a saving on the 0404. I'll report back with my findings once I've got it._

 

In Stereophile Bel Canto USB Link review they found EMU 0404 inferior and Transit same level.


----------



## Patu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In Stereophile Bel Canto USB Link review they found EMU 0404 inferior and Transit same level._

 

Can you tell us more about the review. Or is it maybe available online?

 EDIT: Nevermind. I found the review already.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the USB interface synchronous or asynchronous?

 Is it bitperfect (i.e. does not resample, etc)?_

 

Must be isochronous.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Patu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can you tell us more about the review. Or is it maybe available online?

 EDIT: Nevermind. I found the review already._

 

For the rest
Stereophile: Bel Canto USB Link 24/96 USB-S/PDIF converter


----------



## indydieselnut

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the rest
Stereophile: Bel Canto USB Link 24/96 USB-S/PDIF converter_

 

I read that review with interest but it left me confused. JA seemed to feel it measured terribly but he thought it sounded fine. 

 My question is whether I'm better off running optical straight out of my Mac into my DAC or getting one of these USB converters? Probably a question that's already been answered somewhere on here...


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read that review with interest but it left me confused. JA seemed to feel it measured terribly but he thought it sounded fine. 

 My question is whether I'm better off running optical straight out of my Mac into my DAC or getting one of these USB converters? Probably a question that's already been answered somewhere on here..._

 


 IMO, yes. I have a couple of different converters and I think they're great and do their job. I personally only use them on the PCs that do not have optical. I use optical to dac on the ones with it.

 Remember, the end result is your DAC....


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *indydieselnut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read that review with interest but it left me confused. JA seemed to feel it measured terribly but he thought it sounded fine. 

 My question is whether I'm better off running optical straight out of my Mac into my DAC or getting one of these USB converters? Probably a question that's already been answered somewhere on here..._

 

I've found Trends UD-10.1 performing better than optical out of Sony Vaio AW. But it maxes out at 16/48.


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Must be isochronous._

 

Whats _iso_chronous? As far as I know USB audio interfaces are either asynchronous (like Wavelength Audio dacs) or synchronous (like Empirical Audio dacs).


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats isochronous? As far as I know USB audio interfaces are either asynchronous (like Wavelength Audio dacs) or synchronous (like Empirical Audio dacs)._

 

USB in a NutShell - Chapter 4 - Endpoint Types


----------



## red15

Very interesting device! And it looks cool too!


----------



## eventius

I bought this gadget from Jeffrey Tam's "coolfungadget" ebay site, and I am delighted to confirm bit-perfect transfer ability at 24/88 and 24/96. Here was the setup:

 Monitor 01 USD connected via supplied USB cable to HP nc8430 laptop running XP Pro SP3. Updated the Monitor's driver to the latest version off their Website (this one gives you English legends in the control panel, the one on the CD is Chinese legends).

 The Musiland S/PDIF Out (coax) connected to S/PDIF In of an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 PCI card. The latter was in a Dell Optiplex 755 running XP Pro SP3.

 On the laptop I used the version of foobar2000 that was supplied on the Musiland driver CD. I also copied the foo_out_ks.dll on the CD to the foobar components directory. Then configured foobar to use the KS : Monitor 01 (USB) Series output. Set output data format to 32-bit (24-bit gave an error and would not play). Disabled all processing in the foobar Output screens.

 I then set the latest version of Goldwave up to record on the Dell, selecting the M-Audio's S/PDIF Input as recording device, and started recording. I then played 24/96 and 24/88 WAV, FLAC or WV files in foobar on the laptop, recording them in Goldwave and saving to Raw (binary) output files.

 I also used Goldwave to convert the original source clips to Raw files. (I confirmed that Goldwave was not corrupting the bits on the conversion, by reconverting back to the original formats and doing checksums.) 

 In order to compare the source and recorded clips, I first converted the raw files to numerical text files using a little C program I wrote which simply reads in 3 bytes at a time and then prints the values as integer text, one sample per line.

 The only problem now, was that the recorded versions were of course always longer than the originals, due to silence at the beginning and end of the recorded versions (the time it took me to hit the foobar Play button after beginnning a recording, and the time it took me to stop the recording after the clip was done playing). But this was trivial, because the samples at the beginning and end of the dubbed text files were all zeroes. Using an editor I simply deleted these zero lines, leaving just the audio sample data. I then saved this text file, then did checksums of the original and dubbed data.... perfect!

 A few notes:

 1. I could not get bit-perfect going through the standard Wave (DirectSound) driver, nearly every sample had been mucked with.
 2. I could not get bit-perfect with the foobar ASIO driver. Interestingly, in my setup, the first 4096 samples were corrupted; but the remaining sampled were bit-perfect. Using the latest foo_out_asio.dlll from the foobar website made no difference.
 3. The volume control sliders in the Musiland control panel are still operative even in KS or ASIO mode. So of course be sure they are always maxed for bit-perfect transfers.
 4. With the Musiland connected to my laptop, going into standby and coming out causes the video to disappear,screen blank. I must do a hard powerdown/up to resolve. Disconnecting the USB cable before entering standby solves the problem. AT Jeffrey's suggestion I will update my BIOS and power management drivers in hopes of resolving.

 My eventual use of the Musliand is to feed as-yet-to-be-purchased Meridian digital active loudspeakers (which only accept S/PDIF coax in), thus having a nice high-definition audio system comprised of only two speakers and a computer.

 I got superb technical support from Jeffrey from the moment I bought the item. I was new to foobar, kernel streaming, etc and he helped me get up to speed. He says the ASIO should also be bit-perfect; could be my setup.

 Cheers,
 eventius


----------



## DoYouRight

Excellent I really enjoy mine also might give up the Bel Canto unit


----------



## roadtonowhere08

eventius: excellent news!!!

 Would you have a chance to identify the capacitors that are in the unit?


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dugq* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've just heard back from the e-bay seller that this does support 24/192 over toslink! Looks like I'll be getting one of these._

 

It is true. I've confirmed that.


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the USB interface synchronous or asynchronous?

 Is it bitperfect (i.e. does not resample, etc)?_

 

It is async.

 For 16/48, you can say most bits are perfect whatever driver you use.

 For 24/192:
 Using foobar with DS, it's not bit-perfect, even if you maximize all volumes.
 Using KS, it is bit-perfect.
 using ASIO, the first piece of data is not perfect. The following data is bit-perfect. Some devices may not lock on 24/192.

 So, KS is recommended for this sound card.


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *roadtonowhere08* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_eventius: excellent news!!!

 Would you have a chance to identify the capacitors that are in the unit?_

 

Guess I can help you with that. PM me please.


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jtam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is async.
_

 


 Async is good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as long as its properly implemented. Takes away the hassle of messing with the computer config too much.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jtam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For 16/48, you can say most bits are perfect whatever driver you use.

 For 24/192:
 Using foobar with DS, it's not bit-perfect, even if you maximize all volumes.
 Using KS, it is bit-perfect.
 using ASIO,* the first piece of data is not perfect. The following data is bit-perfect.* Some devices may not lock on 24/192.

 So, KS is recommended for this sound card._

 

Never heard of this before, do you know why its doing this? How often this "first piece of data" occurs? (every time you hit play, every time it switches songs, etc). Maybe this is how they designed their custom driver. Can you (or someone) try the USB-Audio ASIO driver with it and see if its possible use it instead of Musiland's driver? There is a trial version of it that beeps every 30 seconds, but otherwise should be fine.

 Also, I noticed on eBay that there is a "2009 version" of this converter that seems to add "independent control unit MU1010". No idea what it is and what difference will it make (if any).


----------



## Mikeb

The monitor 02 version has a power supply built in which must be an upgrade from taking the power from the usb connection which I assume the 01 does as I can't see any power cable in the photos of the unit, also the 02 version includes a headphone amp which may be useful for some installations with connections for low and high sensitivity headphones, the output is rather limited 50mw but should be ok for sensitive not too load demanding headphones, and the box is a little better, the only downside I can see is the price which is around double that of the 01, however the price is still relatively cheap, its presently showing on a ebay site for around £100 (UK pounds), anyone tried one of these yet?


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jtam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is true. I've confirmed that._

 

confirmed how? asking or SEEING/trying yourself with known working 192k parts?

 I rarely ask ebay sellers anything that is 'hard'. they are salesman. they don't know.

 have you DONE the experiment yourself?


----------



## jtam

Quote:


 Never heard of this before, do you know why its doing this? How often this "first piece of data" occurs? (every time you hit play, every time it switches songs, etc). Maybe this is how they designed their custom driver. Can you (or someone) try the USB-Audio ASIO driver with it and see if its possible use it instead of Musiland's driver? There is a trial version of it that beeps every 30 seconds, but otherwise should be fine. 
 

I am pretty sure it won't work because Musiland is using their proprietary USB chipset in this sound card.

  Quote:


 Also, I noticed on eBay that there is a "2009 version" of this converter that seems to add "independent control unit MU1010". No idea what it is and what difference will it make (if any). 
 

There is only one version of Monitor01 USD and it is using a MU1010/MU6010 chipset with is developed by themselves.


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_confirmed how? asking or SEEING/trying yourself with known working 192k parts?

 I rarely ask ebay sellers anything that is 'hard'. they are salesman. they don't know.

 have you DONE the experiment yourself?_

 

Can the attached pictures prove something?


----------



## linuxworks

ah, ok, real data on a device. good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just was checking it wasn't just some guys word who wants to sell these


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mikeb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The monitor 02 version has a power supply built in which must be an upgrade from taking the power from the usb connection which I assume the 01 does as I can't see any power cable in the photos of the unit, also the 02 version includes a headphone amp which may be useful for some installations with connections for low and high sensitivity headphones, the output is rather limited 50mw but should be ok for sensitive not too load demanding headphones, and the box is a little better, the only downside I can see is the price which is around double that of the 01, however the price is still relatively cheap, its presently showing on a ebay site for around £100 (UK pounds), anyone tried one of these yet?_

 

The price is $150 and £88...

 Another good thing for Monitor 02 US is it takes wide voltage 85-240v.


----------



## keyid

jtam you a dealer/seller of this product?


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *keyid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jtam you a dealer/seller of this product?_

 

With 9 posts all of which are about Musicland I would say it's a pretty good guess.
 jtam, while you are still there, can you please elaborate on async implementation.


----------



## DoYouRight

I decided to sell the Bel Canto USBLink and keep this as I think it performs better technically. Only drawback is the drivers, however Windows 7 is better than vista so unix is still there but... 24/96 is ok. I might keep it for a little while longer but not much.


----------



## Patu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I decided to sell the Bel Canto USBLink and keep this as I think it performs better technically. Only drawback is the drivers, however Windows 7 is better than vista so unix is still there but... 24/96 is ok. I might keep it for a little while longer but not much._

 

Could you do more in-depth preview between these two?


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I decided to sell the Bel Canto USBLink and keep this as I think it performs better technically. Only drawback is the drivers, however Windows 7 is better than vista so unix is still there but... 24/96 is ok. I might keep it for a little while longer but not much._

 

Is this with the updated drivers from last month for Vista?

 Thanks


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *keyid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jtam you a dealer/seller of this product?_

 

Yes but on eBay only.


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With 9 posts all of which are about Musicland I would say it's a pretty good guess.
 jtam, while you are still there, can you please elaborate on async implementation._

 

To my best knowledge, the USD has a pretty precise internal clock and a data buffer. When receiving data from the computer via USB, the MU1010/6010 chip sets feedback the master clock back to PC to control the speed of the data stream. They claimed that the algorithm they used is good at controlling jitters.


----------



## DoYouRight

alright Patu Ill compare them side by side tonight and post tomorrow. More detailed breakdown of what I hear.


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jtam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is async.

 For 16/48, you can say most bits are perfect whatever driver you use.

 For 24/192:
 Using foobar with DS, it's not bit-perfect, even if you maximize all volumes.
*Using KS, it is bit-perfect.*
 using ASIO, the first piece of data is not perfect. The following data is bit-perfect. Some devices may not lock on 24/192.

*So, KS is recommended for this sound card.*_

 

Do you know if Vista's WASAPI exclusive mode will work with this card? I believe WASAPI is Vista's native implementation of KS.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_alright Patu Ill compare them side by side tonight and post tomorrow. More detailed breakdown of what I hear._

 

Do it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 My M-Audio Transit sucks with Vista. I'm looking for other options, this one and the PopPulse are great choices now.


----------



## linuxworks

I have not seen any reports (yet) about this running on linux.

 any plans? can you (ebay guy) ask the manuf if they plan to have linux support for this?


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not seen any reports (yet) about this running on linux.

 any plans? can you (ebay guy) ask the manuf if they plan to have linux support for this?_

 

Asked, no hope for Linux.

 They plan to make a very similar model for Mac though. Good news?


----------



## Kpalsm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you know if Vista's WASAPI exclusive mode will work with this card? I believe WASAPI is Vista's native implementation of KS._

 

I imagine it should work, KS and WASAPI are pretty similar. KS does work under Vista, although poorly, but it is considered the better choice for USB devices according to Foobar2000's wiki. That said, I'm using WASAPI with my USB X-Fi sound card and it works great. Just had to set the output buffer as low as it goes in Foobar. Don't know if you use F2k or not though so that might not have been very helpful. Here's some general info: ASIO is more selective about the devices it works with; there generally need to be specific ASIO drivers for a device in order to get it working (with the possible exception of ASIO4ALL). WASAPI will work with any audio device with a Vista driver. The end result of either method is pretty well the same. Not sure about bit-perfect output via WASAPI, though I know it can be done in ASIO. I don't care much about it myself, I just like to block out all the other sounds on my computer by using WASAPI. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There's a link to a guide to setting up WASAPI and/or ASIO with F2k in my signature if you're interested (as well as instructions for ripping CDs to FLAC using EAC).


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jtam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Asked, no hope for Linux.

 They plan to make a very similar model for Mac though. Good news?_

 

not for me; mac is not linux.

 I have a fanless pc that runs linux and mpd (music play daemon). my config works well with standard usb audio devices (from a very old xitel usb/opto box from 2000 timeframe up thru the BB pcm chips and cmedia chips).

 but I'm NOT willing to dump my:
 - os
 - apps
 - config

 because the company is too 'proud' to tell us how their code or architecture works. they won't play ball with the open source guys, I want no part of their products.

 sorry.

 go tell them they lose a LOT of sales because, more and more, media players are going linux as the back-end.

 and this hiding game that vendors play; reminds me of those that rub off the chip names before they ship the board. I can't support companies that do stuff like that.

 thanks for letting us know. it would have been a shame to order one, TRY to get unix working with it only to find out the vendor doesn't ever want it to work with unix.


----------



## mmerrill99

I agree with Linuxworks - it really needs to support Linux for true audiophile use which is what it is purported to address.

 Here's an announcement from Musiland (translated) which talks about the Functional units & their workings, Includes USB 2.0 support, using Xilnx FPGA gives 24bit/768KHz, clock management unit for low jitter clock 1PPM(?) plus it mentions future functions (through software) of multichannel support, DTS, audio effects,etc

 Sorry for the long quote but I thought all of it interesting

  Quote:


 A new generation of high-definition MUSILAND upcoming chipset USB AUDIO

 MUSILAND Audio Labs is about to release a new generation of high-definition USB AUDIO solution, independent from MUSILAND Audio Labs research and development, there will continue to be issued a number of models. Traditional sound card with the previous chip is different, MUSILAND Audio Labs solutions developed by the two chips ICU (I / O control unit, I / O control unit) and APU (Audio processor unit, audio processing unit) Unit into a similar computer motherboard chipsets Dragon framework, ICU and the APU through high-speed parallel bus communications. 
 First of all, the listing will be Monitor01 HD-USB chip set by the ICU (I / O control unit, I / O control unit) MU1010, APU (Audio processor unit, audio processing unit) MU6010 composition. 
 ICU MU1010 
 ICU MU1010 the use of generic CPYRESS programmable processor (DSP) to achieve. MU1010 true USB2.0 support high-speed transmission, the instantaneous transfer rate up to 480Mbps. With sarin MUSILAND driven by high-speed parallel bus, bi-directional transmission of up to 16-channel audio data to the APU for processing. Cache and multi-layer state machine to deal with the mechanism to achieve MU1010 makes the system similar to PCI device priority levels, USB high-speed transmission of data so that the true real-time. 
 APU MU6010 
 APU MU6010 common use of XILINX field programmable gate array (FPGA) to achieve. MU6010 Audio 24Bit support for real data processing, sample-rate support to 768kHz. In addition to between the ICU and high-speed parallel data bus through the exchange of audio data, MU6010 have powerful audio processing capabilities. Moreover, the audio processor is a real-time operating system, programming can be downloaded through an independent unit. By running the different processing algorithms, MU6010 to be completed such as: Kara OK Reverberation, Virtual 3D computing, the voice of harmonic analysis, the acoustic excitation, 3D audio acceleration, multi-channel coding and decoding, digital signal to the jitter, sampling rate conversion all audio processing functions.
 MU6010 with 5 groups I2S output interface connected to 5-chip stereo digital-to-analog converter (DAC), to achieve up to 10 channels of analog output. 2 groups with I2S input, can connect two stereo analog-to-digital converter chip (ADC), the completion of 4-channel analog input. MU6010 also has a group of S / PDIF output interface, you can output S / PDIF digital signal. All digital I / O all have the 24Bit processing capacity to support up to 768kHz sampling rate of audio signal transmission.
 MU6010 integrated precision internal clock generation circuit, to load the professional clock synthesis algorithm, the XILINX FPGA with internal DCM (clock management module) generated by the audio clock, the measured precision of up to plus or minus 1ppm, the resulting clock to restore the audio or voice recording, harmonic distortion close to the limit of human hearing.
 MU6010 integrated precision internal S / PDIF transmitter. Can be PCM, Dolby, DTS and other popular digital signal output, and the future meeting times with the upgrade of audio formats. Since the S / PDIF transmitter driven by a precision clock, so the output signal jitter is very low audio laboratory to achieve the required test equipment accuracy. S / PDIF output format support physical consumer, professional-type optical fiber, coaxial signal norms, and to support the professional norms of AES transmission.
 MU6010 have I 2C Interface, can be driven through the system to control external ADC / DAC. 16Bit external expansion bus, in addition to SDRAM can be used to store a large amount of real-time algorithm, or link up with other APU to achieve functions such as the expansion of HDMI interface.
 At present, Sarin has mature driver (supports the latest operating system Windows 7), can be used with chipset MU1010 + MU6010. And more of the audio processing algorithm library, will be gradually enriched MUSILAND Audio Labs.
 MUSILAND Audio Labs announced that it would release by the end of March this chipset, and the first chipsets to use this product, it will be MUSILAND brand Monitor01 US / USD products. The future, MU1010 + MU6010 chipset will be available to over MUSILAND and DIYEDEN In addition to third-party use of brands. High-quality USB AUDIO era.


----------



## mmerrill99

Further research has unearthed a review (in Chinese & in 3 parts) & pics of the Monitor 01 US (same as USD but with PCM1973 DAC). Pics of board (in Part 2 ) show, what to me looks like a reasonably well designed & implemented board but it also mentions that I2S is used to send audio to the DAC. So I2S should be recoverable from the unit (I know I2S signal has to be short to avoid clock corruption). The PCM1793 is the weak part of this unit, I feel

 Translated article Part 1 : Google Translate
 Translated article Part 2 : Google Translate
 Translated article Part 3: Google Translate


----------



## DoYouRight

When are these coming out?

 By the way, Im still testing the 2 different usb converters to get a detailed breakdown of all I have tried. I am also installing Windows 7 tonight and will add that to issues and pro's.


----------



## mmerrill99

Can anybody post pics of the internals of th 01 USD to try establish if I2S is interceptible?


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anybody post pics of the internals of th 01 USD to try establish if I2S is interceptible?_

 

It likely to be possible with "US" version of this converter (not "USD"), since it adds PCM1793 for analog outputs. This link which was posted above has more detailed pics of the "US" version:

Google Translate

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When are these coming out?

 By the way, Im still testing the 2 different usb converters to get a detailed breakdown of all I have tried. I am also installing Windows 7 tonight and will add that to issues and pro's._

 

Cool! If possible, can you try WASAPI exclusive in Windows7 and see how it works? Not sure what kind of media players you are using, but J.River (available as a trial) works great with WASAPI so far.


----------



## DoYouRight

I will tomorrow. Also, when I asked when its coming out I meant the new models from that copied post.


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you know if Vista's WASAPI exclusive mode will work with this card? I believe WASAPI is Vista's native implementation of KS._

 

The answer (from Musiland) is Yes. I haven't personally confirmed it yet coz I don't have a PC running Windows Vista/7.


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jtam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The answer (from Musiland) is Yes. I haven't personally confirmed it yet coz I don't have a PC running Windows Vista/7._

 

Thanks! So it should be bitperfect at all supported sample rates like KS right? (not like ASIO)


----------



## adelias

I totally agree with linuxworks. I was waiting for a confirmation on whether or not linux was supported before going ahead and ordering.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gevorg* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It likely to be possible with "US" version of this converter (not "USD"), since it adds PCM1793 for analog outputs. This link which was posted above has more detailed pics of the "US" version:

Google Translate_

 

I know it's probably available with the "US" version - I'm the one who posted the link to the pics above (it's like Chinese whispers here) that's why I requested pics of the "USD" internals.

 Although I can agree with Linuxworks, I see the companies IP concerns - this code has been achieved through the employment of some programmers, it's the companies IP. Try asking Gordon Rankin of Wavelength to release his asynch code (which he says took him 900 hours work?)


----------



## linuxworks

at least a start would be to release the binary blob that would get loaded at power-on boot time (I assume the code gets sucked in to the device from the pc host at every power-on).

 even that would get the linux guys running with this.

 you don't have to release source. but if you go the blob route, you then are 'in the loop' (aka, in the way!) of every kernel upgrade. that's something vendors hate and understandably so.

 I prefer to avoid kernel locked versions of binary objects (blobs). I want to be able to upgrade my kernel and not be stuck with some older version because the blob is locked to it.

 but at the very least, they should do something for linux.

 I stopped using windows for media center things years ago. I wont' go back. and I won't re-buy equipment by buying a mac.


----------



## DoYouRight

Alright I have finally gotten this done for the time being.

 Here is a review of comparing Transit, Bel Canto USBLink, and the Musiland 01USD for USB>Digital Input converter for my Buffalo32s D/AC. Which btw has phenomenal jitter correction from the Sabre chip and all around creates an amazing sound, so the below is all IMHO and YYMV. 

 Equipment Used:
 DIY Buffalo32s Balanced DAC - XLR Balanced output into ->
 DIY Beta22 Balanced Amplifier (6 Board to give SE active grounds)
 Denon D7000 - SE/XLR via adapter
 Grado HF2 - SE
 Sennheiser HD650 - APS V3 XLR Recable
 M-Audio Transit
 Bel Canto USBLink 24/96
 Musiland 01USD

 Music: All FLAC/ALAC Accurate Rips cept Vinyl Ripped in 24/96 via Foobar2k WASAPI/ASIO enabled, no DSP or EQ.
 Jack Johnson - Sleep Through the Static
 Shpongle - Nothing Lasts
 Muse - HAARP + 2 singles from Resistance 
 Pink Floyd - UmmaGumma - MFSL Vinyl Rip 24/96
 Duke Ellington - Money Jungle - MFSL Vinyl Rip 24/96
 1812 Overture - 24/192 HD
 Bear McReary - BattleStar Galactica Season 4 Score

 Alright let's get down to business. I have spent many MANY hundreds of hours stressing over this USB issue for DACs. I would have just dealt with it and gotten an AYRE which has asynchronous USB of 24/192 without drivers, however it only has USB I/Os which to me is a problem for versitility. Anyway, I searched every possible solution and to keep my Buffalo32 which is an amazing D/AC and the best sound I have ever heard, I still wanted a way to connect it to my laptop with all of my FLAC with easy no mess connections, if only 16/44.1 was around this would not be an issue, but alas we have vinyl rips and HD audio. I know replaced Vista x64 with Windows 7 x64 which is fairly faster, I also run Ubuntu 9.04 or Ubuntu Studio for it's built in JACK and ALSA tools and framework. This proved to be an issue since my creative expresscard notebook had no functioning drivers, and my laptops spdif out was converted to the HDMI out that I use for my LCD. So how do I get above 16/44.1 in the best quality now?

 I find the shortcomings of USB 1.1 audio to be a huge PITA, and I am hoping the newly announced USB 2.0 audio rec's will release WAY easier ability to gain higher bitrate and rates without all of the hassle of programming from scratch. So I tried the following devices, to get USB > SPDIF since Ubuntu was a pain and I wanted to have quick connections wherever I go, Emu 0404 USB, M-Audio Transit, Bel Canto USBLink 24/96, and now the Musiland 01USD. 

 Emu 0404 USB - This is a great little machine but ended up being too clunky for it's worth and not anything better for the $200 price considering I just wanted the conversion. Next the Transit-

 M-Audio Transit - Was my second attempt, this little sucker was very nice and it also works in Linux! KACHING! I did not figure out how to get above 96hz but for Vinyl alone it was a great little gadgit. However I think it sounded a little hazy and also cold and lifeless. My system is already extremely neutral and it just took away from the music to me. So next I tried...

 Bel Canto USBLink 24/96 - Ok this thing is a huge chunk of money coming from the others, however it needs no drivers and has specially written commands for the chip to process audio and purely for a musical basis. I love the fact it will run on anything without the fuss of drivers, big plus! The inclusion of BNC 75ohm is also a plus as I prefer Coaxial over optical as I don't have so many locking issues. The musicality of the Bel Canto is superb and no matter what stereophile says this thing feels and sounds more natural than the Transit. I believe their test for jitter was ghetto and not affective, as this thing sounds much cleaner and just a little bit better than the transit. Like the difference between a first pressing cd of Zeppelin and the MFSL cd's. Though the huge pricetag was a issue to me, it still is a very strong performer, and if I have a Bel Canto DAC 3 I would be in utter love, only 1 problem... where's the 24/192 love?

 Musiland 01 USD - I was not expecting much from this little baby as it was much cheaper than the Bel Canto and foreign. However, this thing is a really amazing gadget, it works in Windows 7 x64 with no issues and actually does 24/192 with the ability to do BNC, Coaxial, and optical make your choice! This does need drivers, and Linux is out of the option, but this thing is indistinguishable from the USBLink and gives you more output options and 192hz. It gives a nice added authority to the music and just feels like it is invisible in the chain between PC > Buffalo > B22.

 Now the BC USBLink and Musiland Monitor 01USD were the best I tried, and I do love the Bel Canto but it doesn't do 192 and but on the other hand the Musiland won't work in linux. So it's a toss up depending on your OS. I feel the USBLink at $400~ is just too steep for the only benefit of Linux compatibility. So I will just enjoy the Musiland on Windows 7 and wait for a better option for Ubuntu, let's hope USB 2.0 brings us more driverless HD audio converters.

 Basically, the transit is a good tool for Linux if you can get it to work it's a little picky. It does sound colder and less powerful than the other 2 but it is a great linux tool for the price. The Bel Canto would be the king if it had 192hz and the soundstage depth added from the Musiland ( it is a minor increase but it's there). However, the Musiland is the most versital of the bunch with its 3 outputs and 24/192 support, just no opensource for you! says Musiland 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 The Bel Canto is very pricey and I believe unwarranted price increase, however it does give great sound and driverless functionality. Let your wallet and your alliagance to Windows/Linux be your guide. Hope this helps...


 This is my first lengthy comparison, sorry if it is slightly washy, I will edit it in the morning and add more details on specific's in the morning when Ive had a little sleep


----------



## Lil' Knight

wow, when did you get the B22 and B32s built?


----------



## Patu

Thank you very much DoYouRight. Maybe I should give this little thing a try.


----------



## DoYouRight

Lil Knight, I finished them about a week or so ago, just have to finish up the casing and connectors I am not using but will use later. Buffalo and B22 are sitting on my drafting table near my desk/laptop on a old aluminum chassis until my FPE panels get here.


----------



## rmask

@DoYouRight 

 Any "subjective" differences in sound (between the belcanto and the musiland)?
 You were able to pinpoint some between the transit and the belcanto... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Thanks


----------



## mmerrill99

Thanks for the review DoYouRight, the 01 USD seems to be a good piece of kit. Have you opened it up yet? I'm interested in some pics, if you get a chance, to try determine if I2S can be tapped into.

 I intend also feeding it via I2S into a Sabre DAC (not Buffalo board, though) so your review is particularly relevant. Funnily enough I just finished building a TAS1020B DAC (the chip used in both the Bel Canto & Transit) & will be listening to this soon, I hope.

 I presume you are feeding S/PDIF from all your DACs to the Buffalo (no mods?)?


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the review DoYouRight, the 01 USD seems to be a good piece of kit. Have you opened it up yet? I'm interested in some pics, if you get a chance, to try determine if I2S can be tapped into.

 I intend also feeding it via I2S into a Sabre DAC (not Buffalo board, though) so your review is particularly relevant. Funnily enough I just finished building a TAS1020B DAC (the chip used in both the Bel Canto & Transit) & will be listening to this soon, I hope.

 I presume you are feeding S/PDIF from all your DACs to the Buffalo (no mods?)?_

 

*Download*


----------



## mmerrill99

Jtam,
 I already have that pic (I may even have posted it) but that's the US model (the one with PCM1793DAC) - what I'm trying to establish is whether I2S is also used in the USD model (no DAC).


----------



## mmerrill99

Jtam,
 PM sent!


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jtam,
 I already have that pic (I may even have posted it) but that's the US model (the one with PCM1793DAC) - what I'm trying to establish is whether I2S is also used in the USD model (no DAC)._

 

Musiland Monitor 01, the USD model:

Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3
Pic 4


----------



## roadtonowhere08

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jtam,
 PM sent!_

 

.


----------



## mmerrill99

Thanks Jtam,
 For these pics, Do you have a link to where these came from? I could only find internal pics of Monitor US model & review. 
 I see 2 Pulse transformers - it looks like one for RCA output (JK1) & one other output? (JK3). In what format are these signals? The optical Torx is S/PDIF format, I think.

 What I'm trying to get is an I2S signal, usually consists of 3 or 4 lines. The reason being that it is a lower jitter way of communicating (over short distances) with a DAC than a S/PDIF signal. Why? Because the clock signal is on it's own separate line in I2S but is intermingled with data signal in S/PDIF.

 I can see from the pic that it's available on the US model as it feeds this to the PCM1793 DAC


----------



## mmerrill99

Here's my further quick analysis of the pics
 For the USD model pin 5 of the FPGA feeds a signal to the HCU04 chip (buffer) which is output through the Pulse transformer to JK3. Pin 28 or 29 feeds another HCU04 & output to JK1. Pin 28 or 29 feeds Torx SPDIF optical output.

 For the US model (with PCM1793 DAC) pins 3,4,5 of FPGA seem to feed I2S to PCM DAC

 Does this make sense?

 Edit: This would seem to signify that there was separate firmware for the US than there was for the USD?


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my further quick analysis of the pics
 For the USD model pin 5 of the FPGA feeds a signal to the HCU04 chip (buffer) which is output through the Pulse transformer to JK3. Pin 28 or 29 feeds another HCU04 & output to JK1. Pin 28 or 29 feeds Torx SPDIF optical output.

 For the US model (with PCM1793 DAC) pins 3,4,5 of FPGA seem to feed I2S to PCM DAC

 Does this make sense?

 Edit: This would seem to signify that there was separate firmware for the US than there was for the USD?_

 

I guess I don't have the knowledge to answer these questions...


----------



## DoYouRight

I would love to get i2s from this sucker would make it the ultimate music converter for me, and use my creative expresscard for games/movies.

 Yes, my USB transports are all stock not modded.


 The Bel Canto vs the Musiland monitor subjective comments:
 They are both my favorite options sound wise, the Musiland has a faster and more accurate sound to my ears, yet this is very minor. The Bel Canto seems to add warmth on 16/44.1 recordings, maybe this is because of the way the 24/96 was programmed onto the chip? Im not entirely sure, I will do some more direct comparisons with more albums, tomorrow as I am off from work.

 I think the Bel Canto is more attractive looking with my setup, yet the musiland has more features, and seems to sound more in line with my system, whereas the Bel Canto now feels like it affects some detail awkwardly with the Buffalo32s, I know it would be great with the Dac3 but maybe the way it samples doesn't mesh as well with the Sabre 9018 as the Musiland.

 These are all highly subjective and IMHO, so please take them for what it's worth. The Musiland also lock's better as well, the main thing is looks and driver issues depending on OS. Though minor sound differences are observed, I will repeat this all tomorrow with fresh ears to see if it stands again, and will have my fiance swap USB devices without telling me tomorrow night and see what I notice, to find out if this is more concrete.

 BTW: I was really not expecting much from the Musiland but I was extremely suprised and am now very curious about their future releases.


----------



## some1x

Thanks for the comparisons DoYouRight. I ordered it to try out - need flexibility of an external USB->SPDIF converter because my next DAC may not have USB. It'd be nice if this is better than the built in USB of my DA100 also.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jtam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess I don't have the knowledge to answer these questions...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hi Jtam,
 You can probably confirm that there is only one firmware download file for both the US & USD as I seem to remember from their downloads section? 

 Hi DoYouRight,
 Again thanks for the on-going review. One obvious upgrade for both of these USB/SPDIF converters is to the PS. USB PS is never going to be as goood as external clean PS. Another possible upgrade would be implementing a better clock. And the final one would be getting I2S out of both of them. So there's some more to be had from both of these units yet.

 Just a point of clarification, DoYouRight, you're testing with both units is via the optical SPDIF of both or am I wrong here?

 Finally, I was tired when I posted last night, but I'm pretty sure that the USD model doesn't have I2S available for tapping into - the RCA & BNC outputs are SPDIF, I'm pretty sure, as both go through a Pulse transformer.


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Jtam,
 You can probably confirm that there is only one firmware download file for both the US & USD as I seem to remember from their downloads section? 

 Hi DoYouRight,
 Again thanks for the on-going review. One obvious upgrade for both of these USB/SPDIF converters is to the PS. USB PS is never going to be as goood as external clean PS. Another possible upgrade would be implementing a better clock. And the final one would be getting I2S out of both of them. So there's some more to be had from both of these units yet.

 Just a point of clarification, DoYouRight, you're testing with both units is via the optical SPDIF of both or am I wrong here?

 Finally, I was tired when I posted last night, but I'm pretty sure that the USD model doesn't have I2S available for tapping into - the RCA & BNC outputs are SPDIF, I'm pretty sure, as both go through a Pulse transformer._

 

One size fits all. The same driver for Monitor 01 US/USD, Monitor 02 US.


----------



## DoYouRight

Both BNC with comparison between Bel Canto and Musiland to be fair, and optical for good measure. I really like BNC though


----------



## mmerrill99

Sorry, DYR, I keep thinking the USD only has an optical out that's why I asked, doh!

 I'm pretty sure you won't be able to tap into I2S in that model, I'm afraid. Shame! That's the model I would prefer for a number of reasons 
 - it's cheaper (but only $10 or so), 
 - it has SPDIF out so easy to connect up & compare external DACs (it would have been nice to compare SPDIF Vs I2S into the Buffalo), 
 - I don't really want the PCM1793 DAC in the US model

 Edit: The only possibility would have been if there was a different firmware for each model but this appears not to be the case. I would then have suggested to use the US firmware in the USD & this could have enabled the I2S pins on the FPGA (with the option of reverting back to USD functionality at any stage by loading the USD firmware). Unfortunately, the one firmware file suggests that the board identifies itself to the firmware in some way & the correct software model gets loaded!


----------



## DoYouRight

Well I too would love to tap into i2s, maybe they will release it later as a diff firmware, or something.


----------



## mmerrill99

Well DYR, I don't think so because the USD isn't wired in the same way as the US so pins 3,4,5 of the FPGA are not connected - it's possible to connect fine wires to them if really needed but it's not ideal so - no go, I'm afraid!


----------



## gevorg

What do you guys think about the Monitor US 02 model? Will its dedicated power supply be an improvement over USD model that uses USB power? One downside is that Monitor US 02 doesn't have the BNC outputs.


----------



## mmerrill99

I looked at this but didn't think it was, for me, worth the extra as I would probably build a better external supply & I'm not that interested in the headphone outs. 

 An external supply should be better than the noisy USB PS. The biggest component to benefit is usually the clock with a lower jitter result (indeed it's recommended to give the clock it's own PS) but other components should also benefit from a cleaner supply.

 Having said that, is there any info about the PS? It looks to be a reasonable good front end including a CM choke (the component with copper wire showing) on the PS input but what's in the black box - is it an SMPS? I suspect it is & depending on design, these can be very noisy & spray a lot emissions around. This could well be a problem being as it's so close to the digital circuits. I suspect that black box is some kind of screen to reduce these emissions. 

 Best to review the unit first!


----------



## mmerrill99

Hey guys why does my saved signature not show - is it 'cause I'm a noob with too few posts?


----------



## gevorg

Yeah, I had the same concerns about that PS since its on the same board and so close to everything else, which can make it even worse or no better than USB power.

 EDIT: Maybe the USD version will work better with a USB hub that has its own dedicated linear power supply (wall wart). But even then, the power will still be going with the audio data stream.


----------



## mmerrill99

Jtam,
 Could you ask Musiland if the Cypress USB controller chip runs in bulk mode with the PC when transferring USB data? I think you mentioned asynchronous mode before but I don't think the chip has this mode.


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jtam,
 Could you ask Musiland if the Cypress USB controller chip runs in bulk mode with the PC when transferring USB data? I think you mentioned asynchronous mode before but I don't think the chip has this mode._

 

I've confirmed that with Musiland and they were very sure about it.


----------



## mmerrill99

Thanks Jtam,
 I was hoping it was Bulk mode because this would be completely isolated from the clock quality. Asynch mode is good if the clock that is being sent back to the PC is low jitter. The clock in the Monitor is derived using a PLL from a the 24MHz crystal. A PLL is not the ideal as it creates jitter!

 Sorry for all the questions, Jtam, but I seem to remember in the translated review I posted here http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/mu...ml#post5910068 mention of a clock management system which gave +/- 1 ppm jitter? Can they say any more about this?


----------



## jtam

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Jtam,
 I was hoping it was Bulk mode because this would be completely isolated from the clock quality. Asynch mode is good if the clock that is being sent back to the PC is low jitter. The clock in the Monitor is derived using a PLL from a the 24MHz crystal. A PLL is not the ideal as it creates jitter!

 Sorry for all the questions, Jtam, but I seem to remember in the translated review I posted here http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/mu...ml#post5910068 mention of a clock management system which gave +/- 1 ppm jitter? Can they say any more about this?_

 

According to Musiland, the master clock is generated by some algorithm in the chip instead of a simple PLL to achieve low jitter. As for their claim of +-1 ppm, it means the FPGA chip only creates +-1 ppm jitter when processing the clock from the 24MHz crystal. The final jitter actually depends on the crystal...


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jtam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to Musiland, the master clock is generated by some algorithm in the chip instead of a simple PLL to achieve low jitter. As for their claim of +-1 ppm, it means the FPGA chip only creates +-1 ppm jitter when processing the clock from the 24MHz crystal. The final jitter actually depends on the crystal..._

 

I would love to know more details on this in order to try judge how effective it is & whether putting in a low jitter clock would improve it but I can't register on their forum site & I don't speak Chinese.


----------



## mmerrill99

I seem to be able to register with Musiland but when I try to read a post on their forum - I get this message "Your user group (tourists) can not carry out this operation." but I can't seem to register on the forum - anybody else try? There are a number of threads about the Monitor devices and I fancied having a read & maybe posting a message.

 Tried also to email them with the email address fro the "contact Us" link but it bounced back. I also tried sales@musiland.com.cn but it bounced back.

 Has anybody used the forum or emailed them successfully? Jtam?


----------



## tosehee

Interesting beast.. I am gonna have to dig up more on this..


----------



## mmerrill99

post here if you get more info - there's lots of posts on their forum which I would like to read but no way to get access - when trying to register, I get as far as a box that seems to want me to enter some Chinese characters - to prove I'm a carbon-based life-form, I guess - but I can't enter Chinese characters from my keyboard - and I can't seem to find a valid email address for them!


----------



## tosehee

Does this device give bit perfect play up to 24/192 or just 24/96 (using KS, of course)?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eventius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I bought this gadget from Jeffrey Tam's "coolfungadget" ebay site, and I am delighted to confirm bit-perfect transfer ability at 24/88 and 24/96. Here was the setup:

 Monitor 01 USD connected via supplied USB cable to HP nc8430 laptop running XP Pro SP3. Updated the Monitor's driver to the latest version off their Website (this one gives you English legends in the control panel, the one on the CD is Chinese legends).

 The Musiland S/PDIF Out (coax) connected to S/PDIF In of an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 PCI card. The latter was in a Dell Optiplex 755 running XP Pro SP3.

 On the laptop I used the version of foobar2000 that was supplied on the Musiland driver CD. I also copied the foo_out_ks.dll on the CD to the foobar components directory. Then configured foobar to use the KS : Monitor 01 (USB) Series output. Set output data format to 32-bit (24-bit gave an error and would not play). Disabled all processing in the foobar Output screens.

 I then set the latest version of Goldwave up to record on the Dell, selecting the M-Audio's S/PDIF Input as recording device, and started recording. I then played 24/96 and 24/88 WAV, FLAC or WV files in foobar on the laptop, recording them in Goldwave and saving to Raw (binary) output files.

 I also used Goldwave to convert the original source clips to Raw files. (I confirmed that Goldwave was not corrupting the bits on the conversion, by reconverting back to the original formats and doing checksums.) 

 In order to compare the source and recorded clips, I first converted the raw files to numerical text files using a little C program I wrote which simply reads in 3 bytes at a time and then prints the values as integer text, one sample per line.

 The only problem now, was that the recorded versions were of course always longer than the originals, due to silence at the beginning and end of the recorded versions (the time it took me to hit the foobar Play button after beginnning a recording, and the time it took me to stop the recording after the clip was done playing). But this was trivial, because the samples at the beginning and end of the dubbed text files were all zeroes. Using an editor I simply deleted these zero lines, leaving just the audio sample data. I then saved this text file, then did checksums of the original and dubbed data.... perfect!

 A few notes:

 1. I could not get bit-perfect going through the standard Wave (DirectSound) driver, nearly every sample had been mucked with.
 2. I could not get bit-perfect with the foobar ASIO driver. Interestingly, in my setup, the first 4096 samples were corrupted; but the remaining sampled were bit-perfect. Using the latest foo_out_asio.dlll from the foobar website made no difference.
 3. The volume control sliders in the Musiland control panel are still operative even in KS or ASIO mode. So of course be sure they are always maxed for bit-perfect transfers.
 4. With the Musiland connected to my laptop, going into standby and coming out causes the video to disappear,screen blank. I must do a hard powerdown/up to resolve. Disconnecting the USB cable before entering standby solves the problem. AT Jeffrey's suggestion I will update my BIOS and power management drivers in hopes of resolving.

 My eventual use of the Musliand is to feed as-yet-to-be-purchased Meridian digital active loudspeakers (which only accept S/PDIF coax in), thus having a nice high-definition audio system comprised of only two speakers and a computer.

 I got superb technical support from Jeffrey from the moment I bought the item. I was new to foobar, kernel streaming, etc and he helped me get up to speed. He says the ASIO should also be bit-perfect; could be my setup.

 Cheers,
 eventius_


----------



## mmerrill99

If you do a search - http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/mu...ml#post5902806


----------



## eventius

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does this device give bit perfect play up to 24/192 or just 24/96 (using KS, of course)?_

 

I didn't have the means to test it, as the M-Audio card won't go that fast. If anyone has proved bit-perfect 192 I'd be interested to know how they confirmed it.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *eventius* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't have the means to test it, as the M-Audio card won't go that fast. If anyone has proved bit-perfect 192 I'd be interested to know how they confirmed it._

 

One right above your post has a link to it.


----------



## mmerrill99

Testing confirms it works at 24/192 - DIYHiFi.org &bull; View topic - Musiland 24/192 USB Asynchronous Devices


----------



## DoYouRight

I already thought I said that much, my bad. I only said 24/96 vinyl forgot to say I have a few HDCDs that ran perfectly thru to my Buffalo. This thing is a fantastic gear and shows great things don't have to cost a fortune in this hobby, especially for varied outputs, anything other than optical usually goes up largely for converters, while BNC rocks on this.


----------



## mmerrill99

Don't worry DYR, I think you might have but I just posted this for further confirmation & for the following:

 One issue the tester found was that "transformers not really rated for 192k and an output level only about 57% of what it supposed to be when loaded with a 75 ohm load."


----------



## tosehee

Still waiting on the mac driver with same capability, then I am getting onboard myself.


----------



## mmerrill99

Yes, tosehee, if that is released shortly I'll be impressed - it probably signifies a company active in developing the drivers and augers well for the future of the DACs. They released a new driver since the launch of the card which is maybe worrying but not surprising as it was to fix some bugs in the original.


----------



## DoYouRight

That is only what he tested, and that was based on his unknown crystal type, not all crystals for the Musiland are identical as it varies depending on culture.


----------



## mmerrill99

Sorry DYR, I don't understand what you're saying - do you know some technical details on the crystals used? Do they vary across models? Any links to this info? 

 Edit: Are you talking about the level of jitter he reported?

 2 Upgrades that I plan (when I buy one of these!) - external clean PS & possibly a low jitter clock (Tent, etc along with a clean separate clock PS) substitution for the crystal BUT this might not be an upgrade because the audio clock is synthesised in the FPGA so there might be a base jitter level below which you cannot go?


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This thing is a fantastic gear and shows great things don't have to cost a fortune in this hobby, especially for varied outputs, anything other than optical usually goes up largely for converters, while BNC rocks on this._

 


 My thoughts exactly...I received mine a couple of days ago. Hooked it up to my Musiland MD10 via BNC after updating the drivers and 24/96 files were rocking in no time. For the price, the inputs, its own ASIO driver and the high rez capability from usb, this device is definitely a winner. I also used it with KS and it also works flawlessly...







 Cheers


----------



## DoYouRight

Yea heat I didn't even know they made fullsize DACs and such, very nice gadget.


----------



## tosehee

Come out with mac driver, damn it. Hurry already~.


----------



## Mr.Mantas

I think this is an example of gear that doesnt need to cost you a fortune to give you satisfaction 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Who is selling these nice gadgets?
 I found few on ebay, but i would like to know where you bought them?
 Im looking for trusted seller.
 Thanks.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


 Yea heat I didn't even know they made fullsize DACs and such, very nice gadget. 
 


 Absolutely DYR...I have had my MD10 for over a year and have not been disappointed. It has BNC, Coax, Optical and USB input. The Monitor 01 USD and MD10 are getting along great together....


  Quote:


 I found few on ebay, but i would like to know where you bought them?
 Im looking for trusted seller.
 Thanks. 
 


 I purchased mine from coolfungadget...great service throughout....


----------



## StateRadioFan

They may not offer the cheapest prices but they are reliable from my experience...

Pacific Valve & Electric Company Musiland Gallery


----------



## mmerrill99

For anybody wishing to check out their Musiland DAC with high-res material - here's some 24/176 free downloads Complimentary 24/176.4 HRx Downloads Courtesy of Reference Recordings | Computer Audiophile

 Or for 24/192 you can buy a track (reasonable prices) here 2L - the Nordic Sound


----------



## NiToNi

I can't seem to download the latest driver from their website. Does anyone have direct link?

 Thanks.


----------



## jilgiljongiljing

Can someone explain to me if I'll benefit from this? I have been using TBAAM as digital out to dacmagic. I tested if its bit perfect using DTS signals on my home receiver and using ASIO4all its bitperfect and using Directsound it wasnt. I can clearly tell the difference between the USB input on Dacmagic and digital input, but I'd like to know if the Musliand is better in any regard.


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NiToNi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't seem to download the latest driver from their website. Does anyone have direct link?

 Thanks._

 

http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.3.2.zip


----------



## NiToNi

Thanks for the link!


----------



## DoYouRight

just to throw it out there, I still have used this solely and pretty much abandoned the USBLink, even with 16/44.1 music.


----------



## tosehee

How is this compared to a dedicated transport? I know there are people who spend $1000+ for transport duty alone. How is this fair against those? It's got no dedicated psu, nor a fancy clock.


----------



## DoYouRight

It meshes with my laptop for transport duties instead of a CD player. And it is better than anything I have tried in this regard with its flexibility.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It meshes with my laptop for transport duties instead of a CD player. And it is better than anything I have tried in this regard with its flexibility._

 

For its price, I am sure it knocks the socks off other competitors. However, I am more interested in absolute performance compared to say...

 1. SB3 + dedicated PSU
 2. Logitech Transporter
 3. DAC-1 as pure transport

 and etc.

 I know it can do bit perfect and it's USB. So, does it eliminate all the clocking issues and jitters and such which other transports have to deal with? Or are we still having to worry about all that and the best transporters are still better for ultimate performance?


----------



## mmerrill99

Guys,
 I ordered a US model (the one with a PCM1793 internal DAC) even though I'm probably not going to use the DAC. One of the reasons I ordered this is that from what I can tell from the pics, there is far more PS supply filtering in the US model. I'll know better when I get it if this extra PS treatment is just for the DAC & output stage or also applies to the USB controller & FPGA chips.

 Anyway, I intend to do some mods on this board - providing it with an external supply & possibly changing the crystal to a clock+ supply plus tapping into the I2S signal traces.

 Oh & this still has SPDIF output via optical!

 Tosehee,
 Remember it isn't a high-end design (but doesn't have high-end prices either). As somebody said, it's a good piece of engineering for the market it aims at. Time will tell how it compares to other units but as to forgetting about jitter - will we ever achieve that?

 Edit: I just see from your sig you already have an Audio-GD reference one - is this not a jitter buster anyway?


----------



## mmerrill99

NiToNi,
 Now that you have the latest drivers, can you give an assessment & comparison of the sound?


----------



## tosehee

DYR. Did you own Bel Canto USB?

 How does it compare when both fed using USB and output to BNC using same set of gears other than the converter device itself?

 I am looking for a better transport myself, and I might turn my server (using linux at the moment) into a dedicated music transport (Probably use XP) using this device. Or I might just wait for the mac driver... But without knowing when it could happen, I am thinking the xp route.

 Any thoughts on Bel canto vs. Musiland?


----------



## DoYouRight

I posted a mini review tosehee in here if you look back. They are extremely close and main thing is drivers. USBLink needs zero drivers, but also has BNC only and the Musiland has more output options and has drivers, but also does 24/192 and just seems a great gadget for 1/4 the cost. Better than the 4-5 things Ive tried already to connect my pc to buffalo32.


----------



## NiToNi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_NiToNi,
 Now that you have the latest drivers, can you give an assessment & comparison of the sound?_

 

I could but it is burning in at the moment (Isotek's disc on repeat). I have listened a little bit (Win 2k8 x86=>Foobar=>WASAPI=>Locus Design Polestar USB=>Musiland Monitor USD 01=>Stereovox XV2 BNC) to a few tracks (16/44,24/96 and 24/192) through a few DACs (Havana, Zero '09) using HD800 and I think it sounds really good. Organic is the first impression. Will be getting my Buffalo32s soon hopefully, more impressions then.


----------



## mmerrill99

Aha, NiToNi, another Buffalo (soon-to-be) owner - look forward to your impressions but good first indications. 

 DYR, so this is the best PC to Buffalo32 (coax SPDIF?) connection, so far? What else have you tried beside Bel Canto USB Link. (OT How do you find the sound of the Buffalo32 - did you have the Buffalo?)


----------



## DoYouRight

No I didnt have the original buffalo. It is the most amazing thing I have ever heard simply put. I wish I could use it for surround speakers. It has the most engaging, detailed, accurate, spacious, REAL, and textured sound I couldn't believe what I was hearing at first. It is really up there with DACs costing around $5K. For headphones only COME ON that is beastly.

 I tried the Emu-0404 USB, Transit, Creative Expresscard SPDIF out, those 2, and a fasttrack pro. Musiland is my favorite hands down.


----------



## mmerrill99

I have the Sabre32 DAC (not the Buffalo & not yet fully built up) & wondered how this Musiland USB transport married with it - excellently by your account. Yes it would be good to hear multichannel from this DAC - one of the things I'm putting into my build; a bridgeable 8 channel output.

 What's the bit about headphones - I don't get it?

 One of the things I'll probably be running this from is a Dell Mini 10V (with SSD) connected via ethernet to my Music Server - seems like another good marriage

 I thought you had a Bel Canto USB Link, no? You compared the USD to this.


----------



## mmerrill99

Hey guys, I suggest you try to read the Musiland forum where there is a lot of posting on these DACs (have to read it in translation though, by copy & paste, which is PITA).

 Anyway what I wanted to report was a thread about Ubuntu & this quote
  Quote:


 7 # 
 Published in yesterday 00:44 | only the author 
 linux driver, this has been in the scheme, but not sure when. 
 Report Quote Reply props TOP 
 aihaozhe 
 

I'm reading this to mean that Linux drivers are planned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but maybe a native Chinese speaker could confirm this? JTam, how about it? Sales would increase, I'm sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Don't forget - You heard it here first - Must deserve a free DAC with all those increased sales


----------



## tosehee

I doubt we'll see the linux driver... not before Mac. That translation is crude at best. Maybe it's another person wanting to see the linux driver..


----------



## some1x

Just got mine. I'm getting some random clicks (followed by 1/2 second where the music seems to slow down/speed up a bit) once in a while. Tried both kernel streaming and ASIO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't think its my DAC because I don't get this problem when connecting DAC directly to digital out of my motherboard.


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *some1x* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got mine. I'm getting some random clicks (followed by 1/2 second where the music seems to slow down/speed up a bit) once in a while. Tried both kernel streaming and ASIO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't think its my DAC because I don't get this problem when connecting DAC directly to digital out of my motherboard._

 

Might be related to the USB port. One of my customers had continuous clicks which was resolved by reinstalling Windows XP. Try the card with another computer and see if this problem is still there.


----------



## some1x

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't really want to reinstall Windows XP (my current install is very clean). Might try on another computer, but I need it to work with my desktop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe it can be fixed with a driver update? I'm using 1.0.3.2


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *some1x* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the suggestion. I don't really want to reinstall Windows XP (my current install is very clean). Might try on another computer, but I need it to work with my desktop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe it can be fixed with a driver update? I'm using 1.0.3.2_

 

It's already the most current version. Did you buy from me?


----------



## some1x

Are selling on ebay under name dpmega? If I can't fix this under 7 days, I'm going to have to return it.


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *some1x* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are selling on ebay under name dpmega? If I can't fix this under 7 days, I'm going to have to return it._

 

Not me, go ahead go ahead


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *some1x* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got mine. I'm getting some random clicks (followed by 1/2 second where the music seems to slow down/speed up a bit) once in a while. Tried both kernel streaming and ASIO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't think its my DAC because I don't get this problem when connecting DAC directly to digital out of my motherboard._

 

Try to disable network card, esp. wireless if you have one.


----------



## glt

Try a different USB port,


----------



## DoYouRight

some usb ports are a pain, do you have a powered hub? 

 BTW: Jkeny I do have the USBLink I just didnt add it in there again, I just put the 2, since them were mentioned earlier.


----------



## some1x

Tried different USB port ... always straight to motherboard. Disabling wifi didn't help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Trying a shorter USB cable now ...

 edit: shorter cable didn't help either.


----------



## Dexon

Sorry for this off topic but can any of you experienced users here tell is it possible to achieve at least 96khz bit perfect output directly trough mother board's s/pdif out? Some kind of cable extension that provides optical and coaxial outputs from the mboard is available at my local store. Is it any good?


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *some1x* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tried different USB port ... always straight to motherboard. Disabling wifi didn't help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Trying a shorter USB cable now ...

 edit: shorter cable didn't help either._

 

How about DS, same problem?


----------



## keyid

try a powered usb hub


----------



## mmerrill99

Trying it on a different computer will prove whether the problem is the USD or your PC. What's your PC make/model? Some USB 2.0 chipsets are not as good as others - standards, eh! 

 Have you anything else running off any other USB port on the desktop - external HDD, etc, that might effect current draw on the port?


----------



## some1x

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 Haven't tried DS yet, but if the device doesn't work with ASIO or KS, then it isn't really useful imho. Testing now... doesn't work either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It seems to be even worse.

 Only other thing connected to USB on my computer is a mouse. I'm using Asus P5Q-E (Intel P45 chipset) motherboard. Never had a problem with Stello DA100's internal USB implementation on this motherboard. Right now, I'm using Musiland -> MSB Power DAC though, which is causing many problems... However, motherboard's digital out -> MSB Power DAC is fine.


----------



## mmerrill99

I'm guessing here but the total current draw on the USB might be too great - can you try running it without the mouse plugged in?

 Stello may have had less current draw, I don't know?

 Found this in realation to USB on that M/B http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/...3589_12_0.html where it reports a problem on USB power:  Quote:


 - USB headers are underpowered. I can no longer download from my digita SLR from my front panel USB port. They worked fine with my old A8N-SLI Premium board. 
 

Is this the same motherboard ?


----------



## some1x

The mouse isn't on the same port. It should be independent of the Monitor 01. 

 Thanks for looking into it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My board is from the same line, but better than the P5Q Pro. In the thread, he mentions that the rear USB ports are fine. I'm using the rear USB ports on my mobo.


 I noticed that Foobar 0.9.6.9 just came out today, it didn't help either :-/


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *some1x* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The mouse isn't on the same port. It should be independent of the Monitor 01. 

 I noticed that Foobar 0.9.6.9 just came out today, it didn't help either :-/_

 

It doesn't matter if the mouse is on the same USB port or not - I think it's the total draw across all USB ports that counts - try running without mouse to prove/disprove!

 Anyway, look at that link I gave - read down through the thread - lots of people reporting USB power problems on that m/b!


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stello may have had less current draw, I don't know?_

 

Stello has external power supply. I would try powered hub suggestion.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Stello has external power supply. I would try powered hub suggestion._

 

Aha! But what does  Quote:


 Stello DA100's internal USB implementation 
 

 mean then?


----------



## some1x

Don't want to jinx it, but it seems to work fine on my laptop. Thanks again for the help.

 Oddly enough, the USB specifications for the Monitor 01 says it only needs 100mA of current... 

 Now I just have to decide whether its worth keeping this and buy a USB hub or try to find another USB->SPDIF solution.


----------



## mmerrill99

Give us a quicky review of how it sounds compared to the Stello (which is about *10 the price & pretty highly rated, I think)?


----------



## some1x

They cannot be compared. Stello is a USB DAC (with SPDIF inputs also), Monitor 01 is a USB to SPDIF converter...


----------



## DoYouRight

A powered USB hub costs like $15 don't discredit it and it runs on your laptop hows that sounding?


----------



## mmerrill99

Oh, OK, but can't you feed the SPDIF from the 01 USD to the Stello & compare it that way - test it out as a USB->SPDIF transport? Just wondering?


----------



## some1x

I could, but I got this to use with my MSB Power DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Stello will either be moved to a different system or sold.

 edit: ooops. Just got the pop again :facepalm: its offficially hopeless. Seeing as how there are new options for USB->SPDIF converters are becoming available every day, I'm gonna return this. Up next is Tascam US-144 (async and high-res also), Audio-Gd Ref-3, HagUsb, or ???


----------



## mmerrill99

Ok, I didn't think it was difficult to plug the two together & give a quick review but maybe it is? So how does it sound with the MSB?


----------



## DoYouRight

Audio-GD Ref-3 does not accept 24/96 files from the pc. Only upsamples


----------



## Budley007

Have you tried a USB cable with the extra power connector? One of my external hard drives comes with a cable like this.


----------



## mmerrill99

Oh, well, Some1X, sounds like a bad'un - send it back


----------



## some1x

For what its worth, it had less pop problems on my laptop.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, I didn't think it was difficult to plug the two together & give a quick review but maybe it is? So how does it sound with the MSB?_

 

I just got the MSB a couple of days ago. It already sounds very good with my motherboard's digital out. The Monitor 01 may sound better, but the pop issue is an absolute deal killer. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Budley007* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried a USB cable with the extra power connector? One of my external hard drives comes with a cable like this.




_

 

Dunno if I can actually find a cable like that... and it would need to have the larger connection "square" on the device-end. Love the Avatar, btw


----------



## DoYouRight

that is a sweet idea for a cable.


----------



## DoYouRight

maybe it is a driver thing.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *some1x* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For what its worth, it had less pop problems on my laptop.
 I just got the MSB a couple of days ago. It already sounds very good with my motherboard's digital out. The Monitor 01 may sound better, but the pop issue is an absolute deal killer._

 

I agree, it's a deal killer but I'm pretty sure you have a bad unit & not a driver issue!


----------



## Budley007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *some1x* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dunno if I can actually find a cable like that... and it would need to have the larger connection "square" on the device-end. Love the Avatar, btw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Like this? USB 2.0 B Male to 2 USB A Male Y-Cable - Cables To Go

 Thanks for the comment, btw


----------



## Kpalsm

Perhaps you just got a bad unit, it happens. Try e-mailing the seller and see if you can get an exchange going.

 Also, I recommend this USB hub, I use two of them and have everything I use plugged into them, including: keyboard, mouse, usb mic, ipod sync cable, 1TB external HDD, Xbox wireless controller adapter, etc. and all of it works perfectly. It's a Multi-TT hub, which if you're unfamiliar, means that opposed to a single-TT hub, each USB port has it's own data controller meaning each USB port gets full bandwidth capabilities, rather than having one port's shared bandwidth (more useful for having a usb 1.1 device and a usb 2.0 device connected, a single-TT hub would bring the speed down to 1.1 for the 2.0 device).

*7 Port USB 2.0 HUB w/ AC adapter - Monoprice.com*


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kpalsm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Perhaps you just got a bad unit, it happens. Try e-mailing the seller and see if you can get an exchange going.

 Also, I recommend this USB hub, I use two of them and have everything I use plugged into them, including: keyboard, mouse, usb mic, ipod sync cable, 1TB external HDD, Xbox wireless controller adapter, etc. and all of it works perfectly. It's a Multi-TT hub, which if you're unfamiliar, means that opposed to a single-TT hub, each USB port has it's own data controller meaning each USB port gets full bandwidth capabilities, rather than having one port's shared bandwidth (more useful for having a usb 1.1 device and a usb 2.0 device connected, a single-TT hub would bring the speed down to 1.1 for the 2.0 device).

*7 Port USB 2.0 HUB w/ AC adapter - Monoprice.com*_

 


 Those are the hubs I use...They're great....


 some1x, you must have a bad unit. I have tried the USD01 on 2 desktops and 2 laptops and never experienced any sort of pop. Just smooth sound...I did not use the enclosed cd. Just downloaded the updated drivers and plugged it in...
 I did not purchase mine from the seller you did, though. Mine was from coolfungadget...


----------



## tosehee

Is there any update on the mac driver?

 or

 is there a website/newsgroup where I can monitor the driver update notification?


----------



## DoYouRight

It might very well take a month or so to get it out, remember they are programming the chip for 24/192 usb. Not an easy task or every dac company would do it.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It might very well take a month or so to get it out, remember they are programming the chip for 24/192 usb. Not an easy task or every dac company would do it._

 

Yeah. I understand. I was just wondering if there is a page where I can periodically check for updates and such. Or even register to get notification or similar.


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah. I understand. I was just wondering if there is a page where I can periodically check for updates and such. Or even register to get notification or similar._

 

å¤–ç½®USBå£°å¡(USB Sound Devices) - MUSILAND ä¹ä¹‹é‚¦ ä¸*å›½ å®¢æˆ·è®ºå› - Powered by Discuz!

 You need Google Translate to read it. But I guess I will post a notice here if they release anything new.


----------



## tosehee

So.. I thought about this source/transport for awhile, but can't seem to understand the logic behind this..

 The reason why we want the USB is to provide the timing issue and avoid the SPDIF in the chain. However, this very device does nothing more than providing another SPDIF to the DAC since it can't provide I2S feed directly to DAC.

 Why is this any better than having a direction connection from SC's optical/coax? This one comes with better timing device in the converter?


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolfungadget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_å¤–ç½®USBå£°å¡(USB Sound Devices) - MUSILAND ä¹ä¹‹é‚¦ ä¸*å›½ å®¢æˆ·è®ºå› - Powered by Discuz!

 You need Google Translate to read it. But I guess I will post a notice here if they release anything new._

 

How to register? is a mission impossible
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 for me


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How to register? is a mission impossible
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for me_

 

pm me.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So.. I thought about this source/transport for awhile, but can't seem to understand the logic behind this..

 The reason why we want the USB is to provide the timing issue and avoid the SPDIF in the chain. However, this very device does nothing more than providing another SPDIF to the DAC since it can't provide I2S feed directly to DAC.

 Why is this any better than having a direction connection from SC's optical/coax? This one comes with better timing device in the converter?_

 

I agree that using SPDIF adds back some jitter,; that's why I went with the US version to get at the I2S signals. Having said that, this is a new USB interface & another option to using PCM27XX, TAS1020, TAS30?? chips. Whether this is shown, in the long term, to be better than products with these offerings, remains to be seen. Early indications are good but implementation is everything!


----------



## tosehee

There is a jitter from PC to USB Device. Then, there is another jitter from USB device to whatever DAC you are attaching to.

 In short, I think this will add more jitters unless the timing chip on the USB device has superior reclocking and etc. Even then, I don't know if this is superior to optical straight to DAC.

 Just my opinion without any formal testing and etc. Musiland is on my wishlist. When the mac driver comes out, I am definitely going to try out myself.


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jtam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to Musiland, the master clock is generated by some algorithm in the chip instead of a simple PLL to achieve low jitter. As for their claim of +-1 ppm, it means the FPGA chip only creates +-1 ppm jitter when processing the clock from the 24MHz crystal. The final jitter actually depends on the crystal..._

 

Hi guys,

 Do you think that by replacing the 24MHz crystal with an ultra low jitter clock, we could get the overall jitter down to 1ppm ? If this is true, a modded Musiland should be the best usb to spdif around ? Am I wrong ?


----------



## mmerrill99

ppm is not a measure of jitter but of precision - this figure, when quoted for clocks, means that over a long time period (months/years?) the frequency will not have changed by more than 1 part per million. This is not relevant to audio or important for good sound. I don't know what the Musiland figure actually means - I think they use it because the Chinese clock manufacturers use ppm as a measure of clock quality.

 I looked into Xilinx FPGA & Jitter and found that worse case figure quoted for jitter *added *by DCM (Digital Clock Management) in FPGA is 100ps. This is a pessimistic figure & real world is probably a lot less than this. Now Musiland may have a clever way of minimising this. We won't know unless they publish real jitter figures or somebody tests it.

 So this jitter is added to the clock jitter or in this case crystal jitter to get the total jitter.

 I had the same thought as you & figured a better clock might bring the jitter to shrinkingly low values. But I paused, because the clock is first fed through the Cypress USB controller chip (EZ-USB) and then onto the FPGA. Jitter may be added at this stage, I don't know & if so it might swamp the amount of clock jitter.

 Having said all that, some early signs are that this is a low jitter unit - some measure <100ps - listening results indicate a low jitter sound.

 So maybe it is worthwhile to change the crystal for a low jitter clock but the crystal itself could be low jitter, we don't know!


----------



## slim.a

Jkeny, tahnks for looking at the jitter of the Xilinx FPGA.
 Even if the jitter is around 100ps, it is a very good number for usb to spdif device. 
 Looking at stereophile measurement of usb dacs, most of them (except the benchmark dac1) have high jitter from their usb input, usually higher than 1ns. They also measured the jitter from the digital out of the EMU 0404 usb at 8ns.


----------



## mmerrill99

I agree slim.a but let's wait until we have some agreement on jitter figures and the test bed etc. This is a notorious mine field. I guess sending a unit to Stereophile would give a comparative jitter result. 

 I'm hoping that in stock form it proves to be a very low jitter unit & I would look at the PS as the first area for improvement. Replacing USB power with external clean PS can only improve everything, including jitter - this will be my first mod. Possibly , separate power to crystal would be another consideration. I2S from FPGA, next & then maybe low jitter clock.


----------



## DoYouRight

I hope these stay cheap for those not yet onboard


----------



## mmerrill99

Yeh, DYR, I predict that these will be like the T-amp Tripath wave - not the ultimate in sound quality (and they'll have lot's of detractors) but getting most of the way there for very little money!

 Shh, maybe we should go quiet now & buy up all we can


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeh, DYR, I predict that these will be like the T-amp Tripath wave - not the ultimate in sound quality (and they'll have lot's of detractors) but getting most of the way there for very little money!

 Shh, maybe we should go quiet now & buy up all we can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I am going to order a second unit just to be safe


----------



## K3cT

I'm intrigued. 

 Will putting this between the Audio-gd Compass and my laptop to make use of Compass' SPDIF input optimize overall audio performance?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm intrigued. 

 Will putting this between the Audio-gd Compass and my laptop to make use of Compass' SPDIF input optimize overall audio performance?_

 

Yes it will probably improve upon the USB input of the Compass. 
 I have an Audio-gd DAC-100 which is basically the DAC section of the Compass and I had very good results putting the musiland between the computer and the spdif input of the dac. You just have to use it with a decent quality spdif cable.


----------



## mmerrill99

OK, I need to correct my jitter figures above and add some info:
 - the maximum allowable jitter on the input clock is +/-300ps (so this defines the worst acceptable crystal jitter)
 - the actual worse case *added *jitter is 1% of the input clock period (CLKIN) + 150ps
 - so if the input clock is 100MHz, CLKIN is 10ns; 1% of this 0.1ns or 100ps added to 150ps for an absolute worse case of 250ps
 - This is then *added *to the input clock jitter to give the total jitter!
 - But as I said above this is with all gates firing and at a much higher speed than the 48MHz that this FPGA is operating at.

 Just so as I didn't mislead anybody with optimistic figures!


----------



## K3cT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *slim.a* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes it will probably improve upon the USB input of the Compass. 
 I have an Audio-gd DAC-100 which is basically the DAC section of the Compass and I had very good results putting the musiland between the computer and the spdif input of the dac. You just have to use it with a decent quality spdif cable._

 

Aite, thanks. I will probably buy the coaxial cable that Audio-gd sells here. That should work with the Musiland unit right?


----------



## slim.a

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K3cT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aite, thanks. I will probably buy the coaxial cable that Audio-gd sells here. That should work with the Musiland unit right?_

 

That cable should work fine (though I tested a slightly different Canare Digital with my system).
 However, I have had much better results with a cable from "Hifi Cables et Compagnie" here but it is a bit expensive in comparison (130euros for 1m).
 You might want to check cables from Blue Jeans Cables. According to users in the ref1 thread, it is supposed to be much better than any other spdif cable when used in lengths above 15ft. Something to do with reflection.
 I have just ordered yesterday an 18ft. Belden 1694A BNC cable which only costs about 24usd. I will report back how it performs against my other digital cables when I get it.


----------



## mmerrill99

Just to fill in the full picture - here's some RMAA results for these units with the internal PMC1793 DAC - the first one Monitor 01 US is the same as the USD but with PCM1793 DAC - the second one Monitors 02 US, has PCM1793 also & two headphone outs but is powered from it's internal SMPS

 These results are pretty good! The internal PS (even though a SMPS) improves the 02 results somewhat


----------



## dinga

I got it today, but I failed to make it work.
 How does it work?
 I installed the driver and connected US 01 to my laptop (running XP) and to an amp.
 Then I ran winamp, but no sound comes out. The headphone does not work either.
 Am I missing something?


----------



## Budley007

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dinga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got it today, but I failed to make it work.
 How does it work?
 I installed the driver and connected US 01 to my laptop (running XP) and to an amp.
 Then I ran winamp, but no sound comes out. The headphone does not work either.
 Am I missing something?_

 

I don't use Winamp, but of the two media players that I have used, there usually is a procedure I need to go through to tell the software which output I want to use. Try that.


----------



## DoYouRight

You must select the output source on your media player. Winamp im not too familiar with the settings menu's. But just goto audio properties and output. Should be on DirectSound or something and switch it to usb.


----------



## glt

In addition, you must open the musiland control panel application (in the musiland folder) and:

 Turn on digital so you can get digital out
 Turn on HP so you can get HP output


----------



## dinga

which media player do you use?
 I have Windows media player and winamp. I could not find any options to redirect the output in the properties.
 yes, I opened the the monitor series control panel.
 please help!
 thx


----------



## DoYouRight

foobar2k


----------



## glt

I suppose it is obvious, but first you redirect the sound to the device in the sound control panel, then some applications let you choose the internal path (asio or kmixer, I think)


----------



## gevorg

For those of you who already have the Musiland checkout these recordings at up 24/192 FLAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





High Resolution Music DOWNLOAD services (FREE!)

 On Blu-Ray (Stereo 24/192 and even 5.1 channel 24/192):

2L audiophile reference recordings, The Nordic Sound, MP3 Download - 2L - Powered by Klicktrack MDT


----------



## dinga

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I suppose it is obvious, but first you redirect the sound to the device in the sound control panel, then some applications let you choose the internal path (asio or kmixer, I think)_

 

Sorry for my ignorance. I am not a computer audio guy and this is my first attempt to listen to mp3 files from my full audio system. So, please bear with me. On the musiland sound control box I see two menus (System and MMDI). Do I need to bother of those?
 Then I see two tabs -- Mixer and Advance. On Mixer tab there are four small windows -- Analog CH, Digital CH, WDM, and ASIO. Do I need to change any default setting? The default settings are
 Analog CH: Sync, Line, 50 50
 Digital CH: Sync, 100 100
 WDM: Sync, ANA, 100 100
 ASIO: Sync, ANA, 100 100

 Current SR: 48

 Is there anything that needs to be changed? I guess I don't need to worry about the Advance tab. Anything else I need to worry about? I will try foobar and see if it works on my system.

 Many thanks.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dinga* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry for my ignorance. I am not a computer audio guy and this is my first attempt to listen to mp3 files from my full audio system. So, please bear with me. On the musiland sound control box I see two menus (System and MMDI). Do I need to bother of those?
 Then I see two tabs -- Mixer and Advance. On Mixer tab there are four small windows -- Analog CH, Digital CH, WDM, and ASIO. Do I need to change any default setting? The default settings are
 Analog CH: Sync, Line, 50 50
 Digital CH: Sync, 100 100
 WDM: Sync, ANA, 100 100
 ASIO: Sync, ANA, 100 100

 Current SR: 48

 Is there anything that needs to be changed? I guess I don't need to worry about the Advance tab. Anything else I need to worry about? I will try foobar and see if it works on my system.

 Many thanks._

 

Here is my control panel














 Make sure you select the correct output in Foobar...


----------



## glt

The 01US has the Analog CH box and that is where you neable headphone output and/or analog line output


----------



## mmerrill99

Guys, I got my 01 US today (along with a Lepai amp - just for kicks & mods). Jeez, this thing sounds sweet with crappy Sony headphones even from an old Dell inspiron 6000 Laptop while surfing & downloading high res files, I get no hiccups - mighty impressed. Sound is, you know all the cliches, analogue, veils removed, etc, etc but it is sweet & smooth with detail, nice! Listening at the moment, to Buddy Guy - Buddy's Baddest, man that guy knows how to complain about women in the most melodic way I've heard!

 Anyway, this is running off USB power and with the middle of the road DAC PCM1793 & OP275 op-amp output stage. God knows how this will sound with external PS into a Sabre DAC?

 Oh, yea, meant to ask, what's the MMDI / HD-Box, HF-Box?


----------



## tosehee

I thought the bit perfect only worked in KS mode. What modes are currently supporting bit perfect under Windows Vista/7? up to 24/192?


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


 I got one of those (the model USD). It does playback 192/24 and with fairly low jitter measured on an AP SYS-2722. *I know* it is not the best tool to do the measurement so please don't start on that.

 The jitter spectrum is purely white noise in the audio frequency range, although the "noise floor" is about 20dB higher than the AP digital generator looped-back.

 It is overall quite well designed, using DCM inside the FPGA to generate audio clock from the 24MHz EZUSB system clock. The down side - the coaxial outputs is a bust - transformers not really rated for 192k and an output level only about 57% of what it supposed to be when loaded with a 75 ohm load. 
 

Anyone know what this means? I am referring to the last sentence.


----------



## glt

Means it works but not "audiophile perfect"


----------



## mmerrill99

glt is correct about this & if you read the whole thread simmconn later corrects his statement that the noise floor is 20dB higher - he was measuring incorrectly - he later posts a graph which shows about 2dB higher. I believe he also estimates jitter to be <100ps.

 I have an issue with my 01 US which you guys might be able to help me with - I don't know if it's the unit or the track or a interaction of the two.

 I noticed a muddiness on a 24/96 track "Sister Rosetta goes before U" from the album Raising Sand. This showed up in analog & digital Toslink out but not on headphone. I don't have another track from that album but all other high res tracks (from other albums) are fine.

 I had a theory that this track was very hotly cut & might be over-driving the amp's input stage.

 So, I took some measurements today - at full volume with the track, I record max 1600mV on the RCA out - any other track I get about 800mV max!

 2000mV is the spec on analag out - is this rms? Does this mean +/-1000mV? Does this explain the muddiness? Does this explain the toslink muddiness also?


----------



## glt

jkenny, some dacs have de-emphasis switch. Also the analog is running with 5V supply, so maybe clipping? (just speculating)


----------



## macrog

I purchased a monitor 01usd and monitor 02 which arrived on Wednesday. The sound quality from the monitor 02 used as a coaxial digital input for my Cambridge 840c is much better than the sound quality I get from the monitor 01usd. The monitor 01usd sounds a bit bright in the treble and not as natural pitch wise. I guess the monitor 01usd might take longer to run in due to usb power rather than mains ?

 The sound quality from the monitor 02's analogue outputs is a noticeable step up from my Dacmagic when fed a usb source even on 44.1khz recordings with more detail apparent.

 The coaxial digital output of the monitor 02 compares well to the coaxial digital output of my Asus Xonar stx which really suprises me. It is probably just a fraction behind and as it is still not fully run in may well equal or beat the stx for digital output.

 I am very impressed with musiland and will probably use the monitor 01usd for usb sources to the dacmagic. If it doesnt improve to be closer to the quality of the monitor 02 I will grab another monitor 02.

 Hope this helps someone.


----------



## TheShaman

Perhaps 01USD will sound more like (or better) than the 02 when fed from a separate power supply rather than rely on USB power.


----------



## mmerrill99

I agree, TheShaman, I believe the difference in sound between them is down to the internal SMPS powering the DAC & output stage of the monitor 02. I think I remember reading that it runs the output stage at a higher voltage than the +5V available from USB.

 My first experiment will be to run the whole unit off external 5V supply - the next step will require a mod inside the unit to split the supply to the output stage & feed it off a higher voltage external supply - can't remember what value supply - will have to check out the datasheets of PCM1793 & OP275


----------



## rmask

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *macrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I purchased a monitor 01usd and monitor 02 which arrived on Wednesday. The sound quality from the monitor 02 used as a coaxial digital input for my Cambridge 840c is much better than the sound quality I get from the monitor 01usd. The monitor 01usd sounds a bit bright in the treble and not as natural pitch wise. I guess the monitor 01usd might take longer to run in due to usb power rather than mains ?_

 

Please note any future changes in the USD's sound signature (if any). Thanks


----------



## mmerrill99

OK, here's what I discovered:

 I did some experiments & I supplied my monitor 01 US (the PCM1973 DAC based one) with external (SMPS) 5V supply & it greatly improves the sound from the headphone out. I had heard a tiny bit of headphone distortion (on the "Sister Rosetta" track - see my post above) but assumed it was the cheap Sony headphones I'm using - this is now gone. I won't get a chance to try the analog out in the recording studio for a while.

 So maybe it was current starved operating off the USB supply? Which would explain why the digital out was also distorted! Maybe the USD model (transport only - no DAC) isn't as badly affected by this as it has no DAC or op-amp drawing current away from the crystal, FPGA & USB controller chips?

 I'll next try some batteries running this! I don't know what the current consumption of the unit is as to whether batteries are practical & still portable.

 Edit: glt, I recommend trying this - here's what I did - quick & dirty - just tap into the USB leads; cut the +5V (Red wire in my case - I think this is the standard) and connect the DAC facing red to your external 5V supply; expose the gnd wire (black) and connect the external ground to this.

 Edit again: glt, first of all try the track & see if you get similar distortion - email me for details!


----------



## danny_66

Has someone tried to get I2S out of these ?

 When looking at the pictures of the PCM1793 in the 01 US I see that pins 26 and 28 are tied together and pin 27 not:
Google Translate

 According to the datasheet (page 15) of the PCM1793 that corresponds probably with 24-bit I2S format.
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1793.pdf
 Can someone check if pin 26,28 are high?

 I2S can than be taken from pins 1,2,3 from the PCM1793 of probably pins 3,4,5 from the FPGA.


----------



## mmerrill99

Hi Danny,
 I haven't measured these pins yet mainly because of their proximity - this thing is about 1.5 times the size of a cigarette box. Also I've destroyed too many pieces with a slip of the measuring probe but your analysis is exactly the same as mine & I bought the 01 US specifically for the I2S signals

 BTW, I analysed the track & it turns out to be badly over-recorded & distorted - it's not the DAC after-all!!! I'm writing to the on-line shop I bought it from!


----------



## danny_66

Hello jkeny,
 it looked bigger on the detailed pictures 
 Yes, with such small lines an error is easily made.
 Maybe you can check with the power off if pin 26,28 is connected with a powerline somewhere?


----------



## mmerrill99

I know, you have to have your magnifier glass cleaned up for this work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I have an idea how to tap into these lines - scratch the varnish off trace 1 & 3 and a bit further along off 2 & 4 - this will allow me to flux & solder these exposed copper tracks & there will be a bit of separation between them now (not a lot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I was going to then solder fine wires to each of the copper traces & bring them to the edge of the board, ensuring that all the line distance from the FPGA pins to the board edge are the same (recommended for I2S).

 So I might do this on one of the lines first and measure it but I'm not ready to do it yet.

 I can confirm it by checking PCM1793 pins 26 & 28 are tied to High (+3.3V) & 27 to Low (gnd) so we have 24 bit I2S format !


----------



## mmerrill99

Just in case I wasn't clear in the last post - the pins are high & low as I stated - I measured them - so we have I2S from the FPGA running in those 4 traces to the PCM1793.

 Can you think of any better way to tap into those signals other than the method I outlined?


----------



## danny_66

Thanks for being the pioneer 
 I just ordered a Musiland monitor 02 US and a 01 USD.

 Sounds like a good method for tapping of I2S, just make the two wires that have the shortest trace to the FPGA a little longer. Don't heat the PCB too much or the traces can otherwise peel off.
 Success!


----------



## mmerrill99

Oh, BTW, this is a well made pcb - I did some soldering on it already - very robust - nice groundplane on the underside split into digital & analog areas.

 Let us know of your progress!


----------



## glt

Jkenny, have you looked at the power regulation? I can see there is 3.3 and 1.2, is the opamp using 5v straight from USB? The 4 nimh batteries are 5.5 when fully charged and no load. I suppose this is safe... (It is .25v beyond usb max power spec)


----------



## donunus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *macrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The sound quality from the monitor 02's analogue outputs is a noticeable step up from my Dacmagic when fed a usb source even on 44.1khz recordings with more detail apparent._

 

Monitor 02 is better than the dacmagic via usb? Just wondering what other dacs have you tried? Do you think I should go with the musiland over an emu0404?


----------



## mmerrill99

glt,
 you're safe - 3.3V & 1.2V are provided through regulators (Vin is +5V from USB). PCM1793 has VCC of 5V (max of 6.5V) & VDD of 3.3V; OP275 has bipolar supply of + & - 5V (max +&- 22V). Batteries should be very nice - I haven't tried yet.

 I've been experimenting with PCM1793 Vcom cap (I took out 1uf Wima & put in a socket). Those on Diyhifi.org say low leakage, high capacitance is best - no film caps need apply (of course their opinions differ) - too early to say yet - Electros tried so far Panasonic FC, Silmic, Elna, Blackgate (C, NX, STD, non-polar), Philips - will try Muse &some others tomorrow as well as film.

 Should be testing it against a Beresford DAC tomorrow also.


----------



## TheShaman

So, jkeny, the way to go for external power is *not* to cut the GND cable altogether but *just* expose it so you can solder an extension cable that'll go to the external regulator?


----------



## mmerrill99

Here's my cable diagram - hope it's clear


----------



## TheShaman

Ok, no cutting of GND wire.


----------



## mmerrill99

The ground wire needs to come straight through from the PC because it is used as a reference for the signal wires - so just connect the new external supply ground to it also.


----------



## mmerrill99

I tried 4*1.2V NiMh batteries (4.9V) but probably slightly prefer the SMPS which gives out 5.06V at 2 Amp. I think I'll have to give a good 5V shunt regulator Salas) a go.

 Vcom - seems to respond like signal passing caps - film caps for the clearer highs but need higher uF for decent bass response. I don't have any high uF film caps so trying some electro or MKT uf with small value film bypass cap.

 No Beresford comparison - the guy forgot the DC PS for it!

 Rigged up a USB socket that accepts external PS - easier & neater than hacking into USB cable


----------



## denydog

I've been following this thread with interest, but some of you are getting out of my league with the mods, though I can see what you're trying to do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I ordered a monitor 01 USD last night. my hopes for it are modest, and I think pretty common.

 First off, I just want to feed PC based music to my Grace m902 using other than its USB input, which has a reputation for fairly high jitter. I'm hoping this will result in an overall improvement in sq, even with the Internet radio I've come to enjoy. Secondly, this will also allow me to play some of my music files with higher rez than 16/44.1-48

 I have been considering the Bel Canto converter for some time, but it's a lot of money just to see if I'd like it. The 01 USD is a lower stakes gamble. I've been encouraged by some of the reports and comparisons I've read on this thread, and will look forward to more.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denydog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been considering the Bel Canto converter for some time, but it's a lot of money just to see if I'd like it. The 01 USD is a lower stakes gamble. I've been encouraged by some of the reports and comparisons I've read on this thread, and will look forward to more._

 

You are exactly on the same boat as me. I am debating whether I should get this or not, but still holding onto it because I see several conflicting reports.


----------



## mmerrill99

Here's what I've done so far and I must say the sound of this 01 US is stunning
 - replaced capacitors on digital 3.3V with Oscons
 - put in some extra capacitance where USB comes onto the board
 - put some extra capacitors (10uf) at the PCM1793 supply pins
 - put a socket in place for Vcom so I can experiment with different capacitors
 - put Oscon caps across the input & ground of both regulators

 Great improvement in sound when running from external power supply
 Vcom capacitors seems to act like signal passing capacitors so big capacitance needed for good bass but film capacitor needed for clean high frequencies. Still experimenting.


----------



## glt

jkeny,

 "- put in some extra capacitance where USB comes onto the board"

 Is that across the 5V?


----------



## glt

I just did a comparison between usb power and battery power. Can't tell if there is any difference... (94/24 material in iTunes for windows, Lenovo laptop, headphone output, HD580). This means USB power filtering is pretty good...


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jkeny,

 "- put in some extra capacitance where USB comes onto the board"

 Is that across the 5V?_

 

Yep, just behind the USB connector you'll see a green sleeved 2,200uf capacitor connected across the 6 legged chip (don't know what ID or function this chip has but it connects across gnd & 5V).


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just did a comparison between usb power and battery power. Can't tell if there is any difference... (94/24 material in iTunes for windows, Lenovo laptop, headphone output, HD580). This means USB power filtering is pretty good..._

 

Did you use the laptop running on it's batteries or a separate external battery? I noticed a distinctly better sound on external supply - somewhat better with SMPS than batteries (but I'll try batteries again with large capacitance across the terminals)

 Yes the internal PS filtering is quiet good - all the extra circuitry in the 01 US seems to be concerned with PS filtering smoothing for the DAC & output stage (& to generate the -5V for OP275 op-amp). It only feeds the output stage - the USB 5V is directly fed to the 3.3V & 1.2V regulators.


----------



## Mr.Mantas

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's what I've done so far and I must say the sound of this 01 US is stunning
 - replaced capacitors on digital 3.3V with Oscons
 - put in some extra capacitance where USB comes onto the board
 - put some extra capacitors (10uf) at the PCM1793 supply pins
 - put a socket in place for Vcom so I can experiment with different capacitors
 - put Oscon caps across the input & ground of both regulators

 Great improvement in sound when running from external power supply
 Vcom capacitors seems to act like signal passing capacitors so big capacitance needed for good bass but film capacitor needed for clean high frequencies. Still experimenting._

 

Great job jkeny !!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 i following your mod job with big interest, because i believe that 01US can sound really great!

 Please keep updating your mods


----------



## MikeW

Been following this thread and have a few questions, I understand the need for a device like this if you are using a laptop. But how does this thing compare to high end PC Sound cards for Digital output, for example EMU 0404 (PCI), with it's transformer coupled SPDIF output, or EMU 1212m, or a High end Asus card, M-Audio, etc. I currently use an X-FI's flexijack Digital output with a custom made (blue jeans) 3.5 > coax cable. Im curious if a device like this, or just upgrading to somthing like a 0404 would give a jitter improvment to my dac. I've seen on this thread people saying it sounds better then an 0404 USB, but it seems to me you'd get better performance out of the PCI Version, for SPDIF Output anyways. So much talk of the usb 0404 everyone forgot about the PCI version. (which can be had for the same price as this device)


----------



## rated1975

DD please keep us posted with your results


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denydog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been following this thread with interest, but some of you are getting out of my league with the mods, though I can see what you're trying to do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I ordered a monitor 01 USD last night. my hopes for it are modest, and I think pretty common.

 First off, I just want to feed PC based music to my Grace m902 using other than its USB input, which has a reputation for fairly high jitter. I'm hoping this will result in an overall improvement in sq, even with the Internet radio I've come to enjoy. Secondly, this will also allow me to play some of my music files with higher rez than 16/44.1-48

 I have been considering the Bel Canto converter for some time, but it's a lot of money just to see if I'd like it. The 01 USD is a lower stakes gamble. I've been encouraged by some of the reports and comparisons I've read on this thread, and will look forward to more._


----------



## chipzahoy

Sorry, but neither the 0404 nor the 1212M come close to "Hi-End" devices without an extensive of modding.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikeW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been following this thread and have a few questions, I understand the need for a device like this if you are using a laptop. But how does this thing compare to high end PC Sound cards for Digital output, for example EMU 0404 (PCI), with it's transformer coupled SPDIF output, or EMU 1212m, or a High end Asus card, M-Audio, etc. I currently use an X-FI's flexijack Digital output with a custom made (blue jeans) 3.5 > coax cable. Im curious if a device like this, or just upgrading to somthing like a 0404 would give a jitter improvment to my dac. I've seen on this thread people saying it sounds better then an 0404 USB, but it seems to me you'd get better performance out of the PCI Version, for SPDIF Output anyways. So much talk of the usb 0404 everyone forgot about the PCI version. (which can be had for the same price as this device)_


----------



## MikeW

I disagree, yes they are obviously not high end in comparision to stand-alone audiophile dacs, but compared to the vast majority of sound cards on the market, they are "high end" in their respective field. Keep in mind we're also only talking about SPDIF Output here, so any mods to the dac's opamps etc are usless, unless the mod directly effects the SPDIF output. ( most sound card mods focus on improving analog output )


----------



## chipzahoy

I was referring to the S/PDIF output quality of 0404 and 1212m. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikeW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I disagree, yes they are obviously not high end in comparision to stand-alone audiophile dacs, but compared to the vast majority of sound cards on the market, they are "high end" in their respective field. Keep in mind we're also only talking about SPDIF Output here, so any mods to the dac's opamps etc are usless, unless the mod directly effects the SPDIF output. ( most sound card mods focus on improving analog output )_


----------



## erfmd

have read through the forum and called pacific valve (Joe) about this device and am intrigued but remain confused. forgive my ignorance, but can someone explain - in layman's english - exactly what this device does and why it may or may not be useful with and without a standard DAC? thanks!! BTW, joe states he uses this out of his computer to power AKG701's without an amplifier which seems a bit far-fetched to me. any opinions on this?


----------



## glt

There are 3 models: USD01, US01 and US02. USD01 is USB to spdif and toslink converver. US01 adds a DAC and headphone amp. US02 adds a built in power supply to US01 and an extra headphone amp (one for high imp, one for low, I think). Volume is digital in the PC (there is no analog attenuation)

 All 3 models are capable of passing 24bit 192KHz material. The devices require that you install their driver and right now it is only compatible with windows xp/vista.


----------



## MikeW

Dac's require a digital input signal, SPDIF, this device hooks into your USB port and creates the required SPDIF signal to be fed to your dac.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erfmd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_have read through the forum and called pacific valve (Joe) about this device and am intrigued but remain confused. forgive my ignorance, but can someone explain - in layman's english - exactly what this device does and why it may or may not be useful with and without a standard DAC? thanks!! BTW, joe states he uses this out of his computer to power AKG701's without an amplifier which seems a bit far-fetched to me. any opinions on this?_

 

I believe PV stocks the 01 US...This thread was started for the 01 USD. The 01 US can be connected to an amp. The 01 USD is just a converter.

 What glt wrote....Great description...


----------



## erfmd

thanks all. so, if i am understanding, a "USB DAC" actually first converts the usb signal to a digital signal and then converts this to an analog signal? thus a "usb dac" functions as the usd 01 plus a standard dac? if my understanding is correct, is there an advantage to having these steps broken up between two components rather than purchasing a "usb dac?" and, what is the quality of the dac portion of the us 01? and the headphone output? 

 Joe at PV was trying to explain this as follows: a usb dac "pushes" the upconversion through the dac from the computer whereas the monitor software performs the actual conversion within the computer and the monitor than "pulls" the information out. does this make any sense?

 thanks again.


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are 3 models: USD01, US01 and US02. USD01 is USB to spdif and toslink converver. US01 adds a DAC and headphone amp. US02 adds a built in power supply to US01 and an extra headphone amp (one for high imp, one for low, I think). Volume is digital in the PC (there is no analog attenuation)

 All 3 models are capable of passing 24bit 192KHz material. The devices require that you install their driver and right now it is only compatible with windows xp/vista._

 

Actually 4 models. Take a look on the new Monitor 01MINI...


----------



## erfmd

another question: i read that one should use Foobar as the music server with this product. do you know if this is true? currently i use the zune software with lossless files. would i need to change servers? and is foobar easy and intuitive? thanks again.


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erfmd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_another question: i read that one should use Foobar as the music server with this product. do you know if this is true? currently i use the zune software with lossless files. would i need to change servers? and is foobar easy and intuitive? thanks again._

 

Using Foobar, you can select the audio device (sound card, suppose you have more than one sound cards) without using Windows' Control Panel. Like iTunes, I believe Zune software doesn't have the function to switch audio device. However, you can first select the external sound card in Control Panel, and then load Zune software to play your music.


----------



## glt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *erfmd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks all. so, if i am understanding, a "USB DAC" actually first converts the usb signal to a digital signal and then converts this to an analog signal? thus a "usb dac" functions as the usd 01 plus a standard dac? if my understanding is correct, is there an advantage to having these steps broken up between two components rather than purchasing a "usb dac?" and, what is the quality of the dac portion of the us 01? and the headphone output? 

 Joe at PV was trying to explain this as follows: a usb dac "pushes" the upconversion through the dac from the computer whereas the monitor software performs the actual conversion within the computer and the monitor than "pulls" the information out. does this make any sense?

 thanks again._

 

The US01 and US02 can connect straight to a preamp/amp because it has an internal DAC. But if you have a better DAC then you can use the USD01 to connect to the PC and to the DAC.

 So why not just buy a better DAC with USB? Because most DAC are limited to 48KHz so you can't play high res material. In addition most DAC's usb interface are based on the PCM270X family which has a bad reputation among audiophiles. Now why not buy a more expensive USB DAC that can handle high res? well, those will cost you $1K or more and most will only handle up to 96KHz

 It all boils down to "how do I get regular and high res material from my PC to my HiFi?". This device seems to be the most cost effective way (and some say better than most) to do so...

 This device and associated driver does not do any rate conversion. It merely passes the music data through the USB bus.


----------



## Mikeb

I have a musiland 02usd and it is an excellent usb converter, I have also tried it with my akg 701 headphones and although it works it really doesn't drive them well enough, the volume typically needs to be flat out and with some lower level recordings there isn't always enough volume, a much better combination are the Audio Technica ATH 1000, these are more sensitive and the musiland drives them extremely well, needing a typical volume setting on the musiland control panel of around 55/60, and they sound excellent with the musiland using foobar, I must say I really like the musiland control panel its very comprehensive and easy to use and the driver loads with no problems, can thoroughly recommend the musiland 02usd partically at the price it can be obtained, in sound terms it comes close to my main system which uses an RME 9632 soundcard with balanced digital out and the wordclock slaved to a pandora dac.


----------



## tosehee

This device is mostly targeted for people with no optical/rca/bnc output on their system. If you got an external dac, but no immediate output from your pc setup, this is an easy solution. If you got a desktop, buying a pc sound card is one option. However, if you are limited to laptop, then what? This is a perfect solution in that case.

 I doubt this has any other benefit over existing optical outputs. Most DACs have re-clocking feature and controls jitter to a pretty darn good degree. It's mostly for a convenience and for those who lacks the said inputs.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This device is mostly targeted for people with no optical/rca/bnc output on their system. If you got an external dac, but no immediate output from your pc setup, this is an easy solution. If you got a desktop, buying a pc sound card is one option. However, if you are limited to laptop, then what? This is a perfect solution in that case.

 I doubt this has any other benefit over existing optical outputs. Most DACs have re-clocking feature and controls jitter to a pretty darn good degree. It's mostly for a convenience and for those who lacks the said inputs._

 

Optical out quality is not always up to external USB converter, usually it's consumer level low grade. For instance Trends UD-10.1 paired with CiAudio PSU outperforms optical out from my Vaio AW laptop.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Andrew_WOT* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Optical out quality is not always up to external USB converter, usually it's consumer level low grade. For instance Trends UD-10.1 paired with CiAudio PSU outperforms optical out from my Vaio AW laptop._

 

I am hoping Linux_Works jump in here. 

 The bit perfect output is bit perfect output, and most non-NOS DACs provide the re-clocking which corrects most jitter issue.

 In another words, non-issue.


----------



## Andrew_WOT

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am hoping Linux_Works jump in here. 

 The bit perfect output is bit perfect output, and most non-NOS DACs provide the re-clocking which corrects most jitter issue.

 In another words, non-issue._

 

In theory, may be, my experiments don't seem to be in agreement though.


----------



## joe_cool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The bit perfect output is bit perfect output, and most non-NOS DACs provide the re-clocking which corrects most jitter issue._

 

Bit-perfect is not enough. NOS, non-NOS (all modern dac chips oversample) has NOTHING to do with reclocking. SPDIF receivers (a different chip) use PLL to "average" detect a clock signal but this is NOT reclocking.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joe_cool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bit-perfect is not enough. NOS, non-NOS (all modern dac chips oversample) has NOTHING to do with reclocking. SPDIF receivers (a different chip) use PLL to "average" detect a clock signal but this is NOT reclocking._

 

Instead of debating this argument, I have quoted Linux_works response in another thread.

  Quote:


 I use a cmedia usb dongle, sometimes, and I've not noticed any degradation sending its opto out to my dac (gamma 2).

 perhaps its the dac. its probably is but its not an *expensive* dac at all; yet it fully reclocks well enough to mask any errors other than gross bit-loss dropouts (which I've never in my life had happen, anyway).

 it could also be the asrc chip that the dac (y2) uses. or the raw dac chip itself and asrc is not really in the picture.

 at any rate, I never care about 'jitterbugs' (lol). jitter is a complete non issue on any modern dac I've tried.


----------



## MikeW

I think he was trying to say that even a NOS dac can have a reclocking spdif reciever and still be fully NOS, just because the dac is nos does not meant it can't reclock the SPDIF signal. It just does not oversample. 

 Off topic, how did you VDA-2 compare to your current DAC, when the VDA-2 first came out I owned it, and regret selling it, this valabs as good a value as it is, is no comparision imo.


----------



## mmerrill99

Rather than confuse people reading this thread by writing about modding this 01 US DAC unit, I'll start another thread.


----------



## Hellenback

I haven't been here for awhile and now I remember why I stopped perusing the forum. Every time I have wanted some straight forward information about the quality of a particular item that has looked promising (at a reasonable price), I run into a 10+ page thread about how to "mod" said piece of gear.
 For a little over a hundred dollars, how does this compare to other NOS DACs in the same price range; and is it a significant (read audible) upgrade to the PCM2702-4-6 etc. family of DAC chips found in most other modestly priced gear?


----------



## mmerrill99

Sorry about that Hellenback - welcome to Hell - that would be me - guilty as charged your honour.

 The answer to your question how good is it - excellent compared to the DAC chips you mentioned - better than a TAS1020B as used in the EMU 0404, I would say. There are posts on Audioasylum about it also (& not as long as here)

 As you can see from above post just above yours, I am no longer posting my mods here in deference to people like you who don't want to read them !


----------



## MikeW

except the tas1020b is not a dac chip lol(it's a streaming usb controller). The dac chip in the 0404 is Burr Brown/TI PCM1804 ADC and the AK4396.

 For analog out you'd compare the AKM 4396 vs the PCM1793, but the usb controller chip has little to do with it.


----------



## danny_66

I got my 01 USD and 02 US, just did some listening with the 02 US on the analog outputs and I'm surprised that it plays this good. It's very detailed and transparent almost at the same level as my CS4398 DAC with Audio-GD discrete output stages (no output caps). 
 I think that it easily outperforms most of the DACs below 300$, if you want better than this Musiland Monitor 02 US then you need something like the Audio-GD DAC 19Mk3.

 For 100$ this is a real bargain !
 And it plays 24/96 over USB, perfect for my portable!


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MikeW* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_except the tas1020b is not a dac chip lol(it's a streaming usb controller). The dac chip in the 0404 is Burr Brown/TI PCM1804 ADC and the AK4396.

 For analog out you'd compare the AKM 4396 vs the PCM1793, but the usb controller chip has little to do with it._

 

There will always be hair splitters - sorry I was not accurate enough for you. MikeW - but The PCM 2702-4-6, etc is a USB controller & DAC combined so what?- I think Hellenback got the point, don't you? If you think the USB controller has nothing to do with it you need to study some more!


----------



## MikeW

the difference is a dedicated usb controller feeding a dedicated dac chip, not a cheap, half ass hybrid solution like 2702.


----------



## denydog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rated1975* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_DD please keep us posted with your results_

 

I bought the 01 USD from coolfungadget. The ebay notice that it shipped came in less than two days, and it arrived exactly seven days after that, with no additional charges.

 Take my very subjective observations with a grain of salt! I downloaded the latest 01 USD driver, and installed on my asus netbook. Connected the 01 USD to the S/PDIF input of the Grace M902. The Musiland ASIO showed up in foobar output, as well as (Musiland) kernal streaming that I downloaded from the foobar site. Both seem to work equally well.

 Playing 16/44.1 files sounds the same to me as playing the same music from CD on a NAD C542 player feeding the Grace's analog inputs, and maybe slightly better than the music files straight into the Graces USB input, but I'm not really sure.

 I'm pretty sure 24/96 files sound better than any of the 16/44.1, but I have little to compare with on an equal basis.

 A couple odd things I haven't figured out. When playing 16/44.1 files through the Musiland, the Grace's S-Lock indicator light refuses to light up, indicating the Grace's clock isn't locking onto the signal. It does light up when playing 24/96.

 The other thing is that using kernal streaming with 24 bit files, foobar output data format must be set to 32 bit, 24 doesn't work. I saw the same thing mentioned earliar in this thread. With the musiland ASIO, the adjustment box is greyed out, no setting possible.

 I can only sum it up by saying that besides as a headphone amp, I use the Grace w/DAC as my main system pre-amp (into the power amp section of a NAD C372, and Epos M12.2 speakers), and I've never heard it sound better than with the few Hi-Rez music files I have, playing through the Musiland, and it sounds at least as good as the straight USB connection from the PC with the standard files.

 Sorry I can't be more specific than this, but to say I'm very satisfied with the 01 USD purchase.


----------



## mmerrill99

Could the reason for the S-lock light not coming on be that the 44.1KHz speed is off (only .04% and not enough to be noticed by anybody) as has been reported on Diyhifi.org


----------



## DoYouRight

curious about the teralink device, maybe musiland will make a audiophile grado converter to kill the cryoparts and EA stuff.


----------



## denydog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could the reason for the S-lock light not coming on be that the 44.1KHz speed is off (only .04% and not enough to be noticed by anybody) as has been reported on Diyhifi.org_

 

That was along the lines of what I was thinking after reading this somewhere;

 "The s-Lock system can lock to input sample rates of 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz +/- 10 Hz, 88.2 or 96 kHz +/- 20 Hz, and 176.4 kHz or 192 kHz +/- 40 Hz. If the incoming signal clock frequency is outside of these tolerances, the s- Lock circuit will not lock and the s-Lock indicator will shut off. Even if the s-Lock does not achieve lock, the digital audio receiver circuits still achieve decent jitter performance. "

 I missed the inaccuracy info on Diyhifi.org though. I'll take a look at it again, thanks.


----------



## Olev

Seems that there is a new driver available. But WARNING I did not get it to work on my 02. Had to uninstall the new driver and go back to the old one ... but for the brave here is the link http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.5.0.zip

 Anyone have any inside info from Chinese forums etc why it does not work for 02 and Musiland Control panel even shows Warning: License invalid? Are they now selling licenses for software update???


----------



## DoYouRight

I need to get the m2tech thing to compare as i think it might be neck and neck. but I dont have $150 at the moment.


----------



## glt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seems that there is a new driver available. But WARNING I did not get it to work on my 02. Had to uninstall the new driver and go back to the old one ... but for the brave here is the link http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.5.0.zip

 Anyone have any inside info from Chinese forums etc why it does not work for 02 and Musiland Control panel even shows Warning: License invalid? Are they now selling licenses for software update???_

 

I copied this from the musiland forum via google translate:

 1, Monior 01 MINI do not need to refresh the firmware, you can directly use the new drive (including the subsequent release of all the new drivers). Several other models, the need for refreshing the firmware, see the steps in step 4.
 2, please protect your License and product serial numbers, because the same serial number or product License allows only used once, once you are in the two numbers were stolen, you will lose the right to install a new driver.
 3, please in strict accordance with the following steps and, if steps are not correct, will lead to inexplicable problems.
 4, firmware only need to refresh. After a successful update, you can install the new version of drivers for all the future without further firmware update (once).
 5, if you do not update the firmware, will not be able to use in future, all new versions of drivers, including the development of the "digital turntable edition of" drive.
 6, the firmware update program is only effective in 32-bit operating system, please refresh the 32-bit operating system firmware. The driver is applicable to 32-bit and 64-bit systems.

 Operation steps: (Please strictly in accordance with the steps)
 1, unplug the Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI the USB cable.
 2, uninstall the old drivers previously.
 3, download and install Monitor USB Series 1.0.5.0 version of the driver:
http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.5.0.zip
 4, restart the system, plug in the Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI the USB cable, if the sound card's control interface displays "license invalid", then you need to refresh the firmware.
 5, download Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI firmware update program, and unzip to a folder (the following description, with MlCyMonAct folder for example).
http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...MlCyMonAct.zip
 6, run MlCyMonAct file plus the "MlCyMonUser.exe", will be MlCyMonAct directory generates a "License.dat" document.
 7, issued a mail to the activate@musiland.com.cn mailbox. Please write on the contents of your "Model", "Product Serial Number" and put the resulting "License.dat" as an annex. Please check up your mail and click the send, mail must contain three elements: product model, serial number and License.dat document. The three elements are indispensable, and the three elements can not have mistakes or do not correspond.
 8, our staff will be during working hours to your reply letter (using the unique mailbox activate@musiland.com.cn), the letter will contain a "License.key" document. Please save the file to MlCyMonAct this folder.
 9, run MlCyMonAct folder "MlCyMonProg.exe", will automatically refresh the firmware.
 10, restart your computer and ok.

 Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI 1.0.5.0 version of the driver update:
 1, the driver playing the kernel update to address some players in the music sampling rate conversion change.
 2, the digital output timing update to resolve some cases, Dolby Digital signal output is not a normal issue.
 3, ASIO playback kernel updates, compatibility higher.
 4, WIN7 compatibility with the next increase.
 5, sample rate control, complete with VISTA, WIN7 compatible to resolve some cases, VISTA, WIN7 system sampling rate is not a normal issue.
 6, drive by adding 256-bit RSA public key encryption mechanisms to prevent the fake products, cottage products has emerged to ensure that the products we buy are genuine.


----------



## mmerrill99

Olev,
 From my very bad Google translation of the text, this is an initiative by Musiland to put an encryption on the software - I need to find out more about the new firmware & driver that is being downloaded but it also entails sending them the serial No. of the product & receiving a license code from them. I don't know what, if any advantage the new software has compared to the old drivers. I know future releases will require the new firmware to be in place but I'm not so sure there will be any advantages to the future releases either. So I'm sitting tight until I see compelling reasons to migrate!

 Edit: glt, our posts crossed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I don't particularly like the direction this is going in so it might be the death knell of the product as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## mmerrill99

I see on the M2-Tech thread, Slim-a posted this:
  Quote:


 While the Musiland is very good as a transport (better than the emu 0404 usb), I have found that the Teralink-x is even better probably because it uses a low jitter clock and good capacitors (while the cmedia chip is in theory inferior to the async protocol of the musiland). 
 

Anybody else experience this or similar? i.e lets hear your negative impressions of the Musiland to try get a balanced view of it!


----------



## DoYouRight

wait for reviews of the m2tech and the musiland with these new drivers. if they have a serial on the drivers means it must be a huge upgrade im thinking.


----------



## tosehee

Well, I ordered hiface, so in 2 weeks, I will be able to review.

 As fo this device, I wonder what's the point of serial #. What's the driver outside of this device? someone will benefit from using this driver w/o the device? I don't get it.

 I think they are making things more complicated for no reason. if they have a resource to do these stupid development, spend those on mac/linux driver development.


----------



## glt

I'm OK with encryption. As the note indicates there maybe people copying the hardware and reusing the musiland driver. Since they don't make money on the software, all the profits are from the hardware devices. That is a fair approach as they are protecting their investment in developing the software. It also seems from the note that they are developing a "digital turntable" which I think is a memory player? (is that right jkenny?) and maybe it won't be able to communicate to the musiland device without the firmware upgrade.

 It is good to see chinese products protect their IP (this in turn will educate people in respecting others IP). I think it is progress in the right direction.


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm OK with encryption. As the note indicates there maybe people copying the hardware and reusing the musiland driver. Since they don't make money on the software, all the profits are from the hardware devices. That is a fair approach as they are protecting their investment in developing the software. It also seems from the note that they are developing a "digital turntable" which I think is a memory player? (is that right jkenny?) and maybe it won't be able to communicate to the musiland device without the firmware upgrade.

 It is good to see chinese products protect their IP (this in turn will educate people in respecting others IP). I think it is progress in the right direction._

 

Not exactly. It's a special version of driver for the Monitor series that fixes the sampling rate at 44.1 only but with a very high clock accuracy and very low jitters. They are plan to sell this driver to whoever needs it instead of releasing it free.


----------



## coolfungadget

Hey guys, I will spend some time to try the new driver and firmware on Monitor 01 US/USD and 02 US. Then, I will post a more comprehensive howto here.


----------



## barleyguy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm OK with encryption. As the note indicates there maybe people copying the hardware and reusing the musiland driver. Since they don't make money on the software, all the profits are from the hardware devices. That is a fair approach as they are protecting their investment in developing the software. It also seems from the note that they are developing a "digital turntable" which I think is a memory player? (is that right jkenny?) and maybe it won't be able to communicate to the musiland device without the firmware upgrade.

 It is good to see chinese products protect their IP (this in turn will educate people in respecting others IP). I think it is progress in the right direction._

 

I disagree. I'm very strongly against DRM in all forms, and even more so on hardware drivers, as it makes developing open drivers more difficult. Just my personal feelings about it though.


----------



## Olev

Ok I did that mailing and received my License.key. Wrote it to EEPROM with MlCyMonProg.exe, restarted/uninstalled/reinstalled etc and it still says invalid license. What now?


----------



## hawkhead

I followed the instructions posted here and it all works OK with the driver BUT ASIO output from MediaMonkey is completely borked - no sound at all. Waveoutput from MediaMonkey works as does sound from VLC


----------



## denydog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolfungadget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not exactly. It's a special version of driver for the Monitor series that fixes the sampling rate at 44.1 only but with a very high clock accuracy and very low jitters. They are plan to sell this driver to whoever needs it instead of releasing it free._

 

I won't be very happy to pay to fix a designed in problem (I suppose the sample rate error is considered acceptable), but I'll wait to see the cost.
  Quote:


 Hey guys, I will spend some time to try the new driver and firmware on Monitor 01 US/USD and 02 US. Then, I will post a more comprehensive howto here. 
 

I'll be waiting. Thanks


----------



## hawkhead

Just to add ASIO only does not work in Foobar either


----------



## mtan002

I managed to upgrade my USD successfully. The new interface has more info than the previous one. Here is the process:

 1. Disconnect Monitor from system
 2. Uninstall your old driver
 3. Install 1.0.5
 4. Restart
 5. Reconnect your USD/US
 6. You will get Invalid License. Download the 
http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...MlCyMonAct.zip
 7. Unpack to a directory, said MICyMonAct
 8. Run MlCyMonUser.exe
 9. Send email to activate@musiland.com.cn, attaching License.dat from step 8 plus your Model number and Serial number
 10. You will get license.key in return, place it in MICyMonAct
 11. Run MlCyMonProg.exe
 12. Restart and should be fine from there

 Good luck.


----------



## coolfungadget

Musiland has re-released the new driver. Reinstalling the driver (if you have already updated the firmware) will resolve the ASIO issue.

Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI 1.0.5.0ç‰ˆæœ¬é©±åŠ¨ã€å›ºä»¶ï¼ˆæ*£å¼ç‰ˆï¼‰ - å¤–ç½®USBå£°å¡ (USB Sound Devices) - ä¹ä¹‹é‚¦å®¢æˆ·è®ºå› MUSILAND Forums - Powered by Discuz!

 English is available there.


----------



## hawkhead

Thanks - ignore the message I sent you via ebay ! (ebay id dmsims)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolfungadget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Musiland has re-released the new driver. Reinstalling the driver (if you have already updated the firmware) will resolve the ASIO issue.

Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI 1.0.5.0ç‰ˆæœ¬é©±åŠ¨ã€å›ºä»¶ï¼ˆæ*£å¼ç‰ˆï¼‰ - å¤–ç½®USBå£°å¡ (USB Sound Devices) - ä¹ä¹‹é‚¦å®¢æˆ·è®ºå› MUSILAND Forums - Powered by Discuz!

 English is available there._


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hawkhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks - ignore the message I sent you via ebay ! (ebay id dmsims)_

 

Is the new release working now?


----------



## Olev

Musiland does really nice English support btw! I managed to get mine updated now.


----------



## hawkhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolfungadget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the new release working now?_

 

Yes thank you

 They might want to include instructions as well in future


----------



## mtan002

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolfungadget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Musiland has re-released the new driver. Reinstalling the driver (if you have already updated the firmware) will resolve the ASIO issue.

Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI 1.0.5.0ç‰ˆæœ¬é©±åŠ¨ã€å›ºä»¶ï¼ˆæ*£å¼ç‰ˆï¼‰ - å¤–ç½®USBå£°å¡ (USB Sound Devices) - ä¹ä¹‹é‚¦å®¢æˆ·è®ºå› MUSILAND Forums - Powered by Discuz!

 English is available there._

 

That fixed ASIO problem I had before.


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolfungadget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the new release working now?_

 

Yes, in my setup all seems work well and ok with foobar and asio, now I don't are sure but to me the driver seems to make an improvement on sound quality.


----------



## Olev

How do you register to that official forums? It asks a security question in Chinese and then a CAPTCHA. I can write the correct information from the pic but I don't understand the security question.

 UPDATE: Tried again and now the security questions answer was Musiland so I could join


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, in my setup all seems work well and ok with foobar and asio, now I don't are sure but to me the driver seems to make an improvement on sound quality._

 

As I said, unless there is an obvious increase in sound quality in this or future releases why bother going to the new driver/firmware?

 This new driver that you are expected to pay for (which Google tranlates into something like "digital turntable") is to fix a clock problem they had at 44.1KHz, where the speed was off by 0.04%. This speed is constant and I challenge anyone to be able to hear a pitch slowness of .04% across all frequencies. 

 As to their reduction in jitter, I have my doubts. Firstly, I have posted on their forum a lot about this - I suggested a technique for possible jitter reduction - they seemed to be reticent about this - I don't think they adopted it or looked into it, I got no feedback. They have not stated how they have reduced the jitter or even what the old jitter value was & what the new one is! They have a tendency to talk about ppm which is clock accuracy over the long term (years) rather than true jitter measurements given in other units, so I'm doubtful that they have actually achieved anything with the jitter. The final decider on how low the jitter can go is the jitter of the crystal used to generate all the clocking signals - this is still just a basic crystal on the pcb.

 For all these reasons I doubt I'll be buying the new "special" driver. 

 This is why I don't like the direction that this product is taking - firstly the DRM aspect is over the top - did M-audio, Wavelength, Ayre or any other USB DAC vendor do this with their drivers? They now seem to have an inflated view of their product having shifted from a mass market focus to now trying to charge for new drivers that fix problems in their product &/or purport to have lower jitter with no evidence or information about this. 

 BTW, they were very reluctant to accept the problem with their product when it was first pointed out to them by simmconn who did a series of fair and unbiased tests on the 01USD reported on DIYHIFi.org 

 He has since been banned from the Musiland forum for being a criticiser of their products. I don't think his last analysis of their 02US product & the power needed from USB to run it was correct, but banning him is way over the top. He is an engineer & Chinese & had offered his help & support when he first started posting on their forum but this seems to have been rebuffed. They strike me as somewhat naive in business


----------



## gattari

Jkeny your objections are justified, but we must also say that this toy used as transport is very good. 
 I used various USB and FireWire pro audio cards to allow the signal to my DAC, and the musiland it exceptionally good at their job. 
 I have the 02 us. 
 Where can I see the jitter measured musiland 01 us? I believe or at least I think it is low.


----------



## mmerrill99

Jitter figures were never released by Musiland. Tests on Diyhifi.org & audioasylum indicate that the jitter is less than 100ps (not spectacular)- how much less we don't know.

 I agree the product is good and could be made better but there are other products coming on-stream which may well equal or better the Musiland & offer a better platform for modding, etc? I just feel that Musiland are treating it as a world class product & it's not! It has a small window of opportunity to maximise it's position but I don't see this happening


----------



## tosehee

Hrm. isnt' 100 ps fantastic?


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hrm. isnt' 100 ps fantastic?_

 

Compared to a lot of run-of-the-mill USB based DACs, (up around 2000 - 3000ps), yes it's fantastic! Compared to what they could achieve (with a couple of $ more) with use of separate low jitter clocks & software techniques , it's a missed opportunity for a state of the art product at phenomenal price.

 Here's a discussion on it and analysis by John Swenson http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?...ohn+swenson&r=


----------



## tosehee

I don't know. A lot of fantastic dedicated CD players have around 100 ps. If approx 100ps is measured and confirmed, it's a fantastic device regardless of price. I ordered m2tech hiface myself because mac driver is critical to me, but this, imo, is a very good product with and without considering the cost.


----------



## FauDrei

How long do you have to wait for this key thing? Or am I just lucky that weekend started and so I ******* up my Monitor until they send me the key sometime next Monday? Is there a posibility of downgrading to 1.0.3.2 so that I can use it until I get my 1.0.5.0 key?

 Also, when I installed 01 USD on my laptop (primary installation was on office desktop) the utility program had "[02]" in the title... Does this mean that with the new driver, beside authentication, we also have limited number of installations?







 ...don't like where this is heading...


----------



## mmerrill99

Tosehee, it's not been measured & confirmed just indicated!


----------



## HeatFan12

Is this update necessary? I have had the 01USD for a while and it runs flawlessly. I use XP and Vista w/ its ASIO, WASAPI and KS....Mainly 16/44.1 but have tried 24/96 many times and never a glitch and with various DACs also...


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Compared to a lot of run-of-the-mill USB based DACs, (up around 2000 - 3000ps), yes it's fantastic! Compared to what they could achieve (with a couple of $ more) with use of separate low jitter clocks & software techniques , it's a missed opportunity for a state of the art product at phenomenal price.

 Here's a discussion on it and analysis by John Swenson Computer Audio Asylum: Musiland, FPGA and jitter by John Swenson_

 

Yes I agree but rewrite all driver for that you suggesting is a lot of work.
 You want a jitter more lower than 20 pps
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ciao


----------



## tosehee

If it's not measured, where in the world 100ps came from? That number seems out of nowhere then.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I agree but rewrite all driver for that you suggesting is a lot of work.
 You want a jitter more lower than 20 pps
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ciao_

 

The Driver on the PC does not have to be re-written, just a few changes to the firmware, probably. 

 If jitter of 20ps was achievable from this hardware without undue cost or trouble then why not? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As I said, it could possible be a world class product but I'm not so sure about the company's intentions
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are mostly interested in high profits, audio is just a means to an end!


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If it's not measured, where in the world 100ps came from? That number seems out of nowhere then._

 

What I mean is, it was not measured directly using the standard Jtest or other jitter measurement techniques - just read the diyhifi.org & Audioasylum threads & you'll see where the figure came from. It wasn't plucked out of the air!


----------



## Olev

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This new driver that you are expected to pay for (which Google tranlates into something like "digital turntable") is to fix a clock problem they had at 44.1KHz, where the speed was off by 0.04%. This speed is constant and I challenge anyone to be able to hear a pitch slowness of .04% across all frequencies. _

 

It is and as fas as I understand will be a free upgrade, just the inconvenience of contacting Musiland required. The digital turntable feature/box whatever it is will be another product altogether and for money of course.


----------



## gattari

After some few hours of listening with these new drivers, I can reasonably say that the performance is further improved. 
 I believe that thinking to be close to a jitter of 70 ps 80 based on what I feel is not far from reality. 
 My DAC is in heaven.


----------



## hawkhead

I needed to get from my PC to a CI VDA-2 VAC1 (which is just fabulous but that's another story) via Coax SPDIF . The onboard Realtek AC888 was rather poor to my ears main problem being harsh treble and lack of bass.

 I tried an Asus Sonar STX and whilst an big improvement it had issues with humming/buzzing (which I accept may be just my PC config) and those drivers are real *****: so that has been returned

 The Musiland is great little box - best sound by far (black background nicely extended) and great service from Coolfungadget on ebay


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After some few hours of listening with these new drivers, I can reasonably say that the performance is further improved. 
 I believe that thinking to be close to a jitter of 70 ps 80 based on what I feel is not far from reality. 
 My DAC is in heaven._

 

Damn. I need your ear. You are probably the only one in the world who can measure the jitter with listening.


----------



## DoYouRight

This thing is marvelous, jkeny means well and has a point. But DO NOT take his (not spectacular) statements to heart. This thing has jitter along with $5k USD cd players. It is remarkable. I am curious about the m2tech HiFace because it claims to negate the usb clock and make even less jitter or just better implementation. This and the musiland are WAYYYY better than the cryoparts, bel canto, and emu devices. Dont fear I compared many. I have no reason to lie and I dont do BS over the top reviews. Just what is real and tested with a fiance who doesnt give a damn about my gear just says "ok this one sounds better because... can we do something else now?"


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Damn. I need your ear. You are probably the only one in the world who can measure the jitter with listening. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 My sentence was a paradox to underline the goodness of the product, we can not measure some jitter with ears, but I'm pretty sure based on what I feel that musiland has a very low jitter. 
 Ciao


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DoYouRight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This thing is marvelous, jkeny means well and has a point. But DO NOT take his (not spectacular) statements to heart. This thing has jitter along with $5k USD cd players. It is remarkable. I am curious about the m2tech HiFace because it claims to negate the usb clock and make even less jitter or just better implementation. This and the musiland are WAYYYY better than the cryoparts, bel canto, and emu devices. Dont fear I compared many. I have no reason to lie and I dont do BS over the top reviews. Just what is real and tested with a fiance who doesnt give a damn about my gear just says "ok this one sounds better because... can we do something else now?"_

 

Don't get me wrong, I do believe this is a good product - I don't mean to put people off it, I just feel they missed an opportunity. I'm taking steps to mod it with a low jitter clock (& other mods) so I'm trying to address the product's shortcomings, as best I can.

 I would love to think that the new software is sonically better but I'll wait for a consensus opinion on this!

 Let's hear your review, DYR, when you get the new driver in place!


----------



## HeatFan12

jkeny

 By the time you get through with it, it will be the Musiland 05USD...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 jk, good work....

 Can anyone advise if this update is necessary?


 @DYR- How's the IbizaV2 treating you?


----------



## mmerrill99

Best upgrade so far, by a long chalk - transformer output stage - incredible soundstage, blah,blah,etc.


 Looking forward to hearing if substituting the crystal for a low jitter Crystek clock (with clean PS) will be a noticeable improvement.

 I've stopped posting my upgrade mods on this forum as it doesn't seem to be the correct venue for it!


----------



## mmerrill99

Here's the English translation of the instructions from the Musiland forum:
  Quote:


 Can anybody tell me the instructions in English & the advantages of the new firmware & driver? Any differences in the current sound or stability?
 jkenny 2009-9-25 05:30 
 Step by Step
 1. unplug the usb cable of your device (Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI)
 2. uninstall the old version driver.
 3. download & install the new version driver of 1.0.5.0
http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.5.0.zip
 4. After restarting, plug the device usb cable, check if the soundcard console displays "invalid license" , if yes, then update your firmware.
 5. download and extract the firmware in a filefold (hereafter will use MlCyMonAct as the example)
http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...MlCyMonAct.zip
 6. run the application of MlCyMonUser.exe in the fold and it will produce a file named License.dat.
 7. send a mail to activate@musiland.com.cn , you should give your device model, device S/N and the file License.dat as the attatchment. make sure they are correct.
 8. the service center will reply you a mail with an attachment named “License.key”, place this file in the fold of MlCyMonAct
 9. run the appliction named MlCyMonProg.exe, it will update the firmware automaticlly.
 10. restart and it's done. 
 

Edit: Not wanting to influence anybody but the reports from the Musiland forum seem to indicate that this update contains no new sonic improvements to the normal playback - it mostly focuses on encryption security!


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's the English translation of the instructions from the Musiland forum:

 Edit: Not wanting to influence anybody but the reports from the Musiland forum seem to indicate that this update contains no new sonic improvements to the normal playback - it mostly focuses on encryption security!_

 

Any news or update on mac / linux drivers?


----------



## mmerrill99

Nope,
 It took them a prolonged period to get this driver out - between announcement & it hitting the streets. Now that they've complicated the software even more with key encryption, I imagine it might push the Mac/Linux versions out even further, if at all?

 Sorry for being so negative about them but none of what they are doing is of use to the us, the end-users - it's all just serving their needs!


----------



## some1x

jkeny,

 Can you link to the jitter measurements, the ones that indicate Musiland has < 100 ps jitter? John Swenson's post you linked to says it should have > 300 ps jitter...


----------



## mmerrill99

Do a search on diyhifi.org for the musiland by author simmconn - it's in there!
 Also, I think, fmak mentions it on audioasylum, if not he mentions that the SPDIF eye pattern at 96KHz is excellent & at 192KHz is pretty good - indications of low jitter. Audio Asylum Thread Printer

 As I said, it's not direct jitter measurement but derived conclusions


----------



## some1x

Thanks for the heads up. Tbh, I don't like the idea that the Musiland's 44.1khz clock isn't even 44.1khz (didn't know this before). 

 Why is it so hard to get decent digital out from a PC and not have to pay an arm and leg? Here's to hoping someone makes an async USB-SPDIF converter with proper high quality clocks...


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *some1x* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the heads up. Tbh, I don't like the idea that the Musiland's 44.1khz clock isn't even 44.1khz (didn't know this before)._

 

Don't worry about that - it's not an issue as far as sonics are concerned - I challenge you or anyone to be able to hear the speed diff! 

 It is an issue for Musiland as it does cast them in a bad technical light - not being aware of this & the fact that there is a set of standards in audio & USB that have to be adhered to if you want your equipment to be accepted. I think their clock output is just borderline acceptable, can't honestly remember, though 

 Simmconn exposed this in his measurements of the 01USD & the only manifestation of this incorrect speed seems to have been some equipment connected to the DAC not showing a signal lock or not showing the speed correctly but still playing fine!


----------



## Tachikoma

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Best upgrade so far, by a long chalk - transformer output stage - incredible soundstage, blah,blah,etc.


 Looking forward to hearing if substituting the crystal for a low jitter Crystek clock (with clean PS) will be a noticeable improvement.

 I've stopped posting my upgrade mods on this forum as it doesn't seem to be the correct venue for it!_

 

Didn't John Swenson say the clock is generated within the Xilinx FPGA, rather than by a dedicated crystal oscillator? If thats true, how would you "substitute" the crystal?

 I'd love to get one of these but I need the Tascam's recording features as well... now if only someone would just tell me how to replace the oscillators in my unit


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's the English translation of the instructions from the Musiland forum:


 Edit: Not wanting to influence anybody but the reports from the Musiland forum seem to indicate that this update contains no new sonic improvements to the normal playback - it mostly focuses on encryption security!_

 

Maybe so, but I feel that especially with files 44.1kHz listening has improved. I would appreciate other opinions from those who have upgraded the drivers. 
 My suggestion would be, but I think not. 
 Jkeny, I am using win seven, maybe something about drv have improved for this operating system?


----------



## danny_66

Just installed the license keys that I got from Musiland and my 01 USD and 02 US are working flawlessly


----------



## gattari

Maybe I'm wrong but I feel that the key is the same for everyone ..... for now
 Danny you have two key. Do you can control by editing key file if it is the same?


----------



## mmerrill99

Apologies, this Google translate of Chinese is crazy - I have now been told in English by one of the Musiland forum moderators that the new drivers DO improve the sound - I've asked "how? Is it the new ASIO driver" but haven't received a reply & probably won't


----------



## danny_66

Hello Gattari,
 I've compared the license key of the 01 USD with the 02 US and they're completely different.


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *danny_66* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Gattari,
 I've compared the license key of the 01 USD with the 02 US and they're completely different._

 

Thahnks


----------



## gattari

Problem
 Using winseven today the control panel crash, I reinstalling drv but the musiland control panel continue to crash.
 Anyone have same problem?


----------



## mmerrill99

gattari, still the same or have you sorted the problem?

 Can those who have updated say how the sound has improved?


----------



## coolfungadget

[size=x-large]Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI driver 1.0.5.0 and firmware upgrade (English)[/size]

*Username: headfi
 Password: headheadfifi
*


----------



## hawkhead

You cannot access this as a guest. You must register - I can complete the registration but it says "wrong secret answer" with a popup in Chinese even though I switched to English 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolfungadget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_[size=x-large]Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI driver 1.0.5.0 and firmware upgrade (English)[/size]_


----------



## Olev

Try to reload it some times, I managed to register then the Security questions answer was Musiland. All other questions are in Chinese.


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hawkhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You cannot access this as a guest. You must register - I can complete the registration but it says "wrong secret answer" with a popup in Chinese even though I switched to English_

 

I've got you guys an account for the forum. Just don't use it to post anything naughty, it will last.


----------



## hawkhead

OK thanks

 Don't keep typing out all your details like Mr Stupid did here!

 Hit refresh and put your cursor in the secret question box. A little box pops up. Normally it contains Chinese characters. Then it will change and display the word MUSILAND underneath as well.

 You have to type MUSILAND (in capitals) and fill in the rest

 Phew!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try to reload it some times, I managed to register then the Security questions answer was Musiland. All other questions are in Chinese._


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_gattari, still the same or have you sorted the problem?

 Can those who have updated say how the sound has improved?_

 

The problem seems solved....but relatively , the musiland control panel start if in the mixer of winseven are not disabled playback devices, Once started the musiland control panel you can disable, if you want, the playback devices .
 Ciao


----------



## mmerrill99

I'll post the translation here - I don't see any problem in doing this:


  Quote:


 translated from Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI 1.0.5.0ç‰ˆæœ¬é©±åŠ¨ã€å›ºä»¶ï¼ˆæ*£å¼ç‰ˆï¼‰ - å¤–ç½®USBå£°å¡ (USB Sound Devices) - ä¹ä¹‹é‚¦å®¢æˆ·è®ºå› MUSILAND Forums - Powered by Discuz!

 IMPORTANT:
 ===
 1, Monitor 01 MINI do NOT require the firmware update to use the new driver(and/or all future driver updates), other products might need that, pay attention to step 4.
 2, protect your license and serial, since they can be used only once, if somebody used it, you will lose your privilege to use new drivers.
 3, follow the step-by-step guide to avoid unnecessary problems.
 4, once the firmware's been upgraded, it will suite all future driver updates, no need to upgrade the firmware again.
 5, if you do not upgrade the firmware, you can't use the new driver and/or all future driver updates, including the 'digital CD' driver(a special driver optimized specifically for 16bit/44.1khz).
 6, the firmware upgrade program only runs on 32 bit OS, while the driver is suitable for both 32/64 bit.

 STEP-BY-STEP:
 ===
 1, unplug your Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI from your computer.
 2, uninstall the old driver.
 3, download and install the new driver:
http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.5.0.zip
 4, reboot, plug Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI in, if the control panel shows 'Warning: License invalid', it needs the firmware upgrade, otherwise you can skip the following steps and enjoy it now.
 5, download the Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI firmware upgrade program and extract it to a folder('MlCyMonAct' from now on):
http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...MlCyMonAct.zip
 6, run 'MlCyMonUser.exe' in 'MlCyMonAct', it will create a file named 'License.dat'.
 7, send the 'License.data' to activate@musiland.com.cn as an attachment, also your product name and serial, double check your mail before sending, the three entry must present and match each other.
 8, we will reply your mail in business time using activate@musiland.com.cn, it will include a 'License.key' file as an attachment, save it to the 'MlCyMonAct' folder.
 9, run 'MlCyMonProg.exe' in 'MlCyMonAct', it will upgrade the firmware for you.
 10, reboot and have fun

 CHANGE LOG:
 ===
 1, driver kernel upgrade, sound quality improved, fixed the problem while changing sample rate in some player.
 2, digital output timing improved, fixed the problem causing Dolby Digital output not correctly working in some circumstances.
 3, ASIO kernel upgrade, better compatibility.
 4, better Windows 7 compatibility.
 5, sample rate control is completely compatible with Vista/Win7 now, fixed the problem sometimes the system sample rate is not correct in Vista/Win7.
 6, the driver is 256bit RSA encrypted to prevent fake/duplicates, ensure every customer got genuine products presented by MUSILAND.


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll post the translation here - I don't see any problem in doing this:_

 

Jkeny have you installed the new driver or not?


----------



## mmerrill99

Nope I haven't updated to the new driver yet - as I said already, I wanted to see compelling reasons to do so (& anyway, I didn't want to be in the first rush - to let any problems get ironed out - we've seen a few already)

 That's why I asked about the improvement in sound quality! Can you say how it has improved?


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nope I haven't updated to the new driver yet - as I said already, I wanted to see compelling reasons to do so (& anyway, I didn't want to be in the first rush - to let any problems get ironed out - we've seen a few already)

 That's why I asked about the improvement in sound quality! Can you say how it has improved?_

 

Although I still would like the opinion of others, for what it's worth my opinion: I hope that is not suggestive, I noticed a major clean and detail in the upper spectrum. 
 little major separation between the instruments. 

 But I would be supported by others about this.


----------



## mmerrill99

So mostly improvement in HF & instrument separation?


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So mostly improvement in HF & instrument separation?_

 

Yes, not incredible step up, but step up for my musiland 02 us
 I forgot, in the musiland control panel is not more present the option auto for the frequency I don't know why.
 Ciao


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, not incredible step up, but step up for my musiland 02 us
 I forgot, in the musiland control panel is not more present the option auto for the frequency I don't know why.
 Ciao_

 

But the system automatically sets itself to the speed of the incoming signal, I take it i.e. if playing 24/96 you don't have to manually select this speed on the control panel?

 Well the 02US is probably the best stock implementation of the Musiland as it doesn't use USB power! What percentage would you put on the improvement, 5%, 10%?

 Just trying to get a feel for whether I'll bother! Is there a way back to the old driver once updated or is this a one-way street?


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But the system automatically sets itself to the speed of the incoming signal, I take it i.e. if playing 24/96 you don't have to manually select this speed on the control panel?

 Well the 02US is probably the best stock implementation of the Musiland as it doesn't use USB power! What percentage would you put on the improvement, 5%, 10%?

 Just trying to get a feel for whether I'll bother! Is there a way back to the old driver once updated or is this a one-way street?_

 

In musiland mixer appears automatically the right frequency. 
 I wonder what percentage of improvement, but to do exactly musiland I have two, one with older drivers and one with the new. 
 Anyway just got the new drv I immediately had the feeling that they were better, however I try to quantify a 6%. 
 Another user in this forum has updated the drivers , I would like give an opinion even if it does not coincide with mine.
 I don't know if it is possible return to old firmware.
 Ciao


----------



## mmerrill99

So you can compare the old & new drivers - both on a 02US?

 Are these improvements noticed when playing through the analog outs or through digital outs as well?

 Yes, I would like to hear from others as well!


----------



## HeatFan12

I just uninstalled the old driver and installed the 1.0.5.0...I received the "license not valid" on the top of the control panel. I attached the "license.dat" to an email with my model and serial#...

 How long does it take for a response?

 IMO, it's a great product, but too many obstacles for this firmware update...

 I have used the 01USD on all 5 of my PCs...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






 EDIT: I also received what I'm assuming is an automated response of some kind, but since it is in Chinese, your guess is as good as mine to what it says. No attachment in it...


----------



## TheShaman

It is just an automated message.
 They only reply during (their) working hours, ofc. You might need to wait a bit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did the upgrade for a brand new Musiland so I really can't offer any input on the improvement.


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So you can compare the old & new drivers - both on a 02US?

 Are these improvements noticed when playing through the analog outs or through digital outs as well?

 Yes, I would like to hear from others as well!_

 

Pardon my english I can not compare nothing whith one musiland 02
 My impressions are referring to the coaxial digital out,in general, I don't like much toslink digital out and I don't like very much the musiland analogic out of their dac, i use it as transport to my Dac.
 I repeat, Anyway just got the new drv I immediately had the feeling that it were better.


----------



## gattari

jkeny;6043644 said:
			
		

> But the system automatically sets itself to the speed of the incoming signal, I take it i.e. if playing 24/96 you don't have to manually select this speed on the control panel?
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> I have now verified that in xp the option - auto - in control panel is visible, in seven no....


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheShaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is just an automated message.
 They only reply during (their) working hours, ofc. You might need to wait a bit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did the upgrade for a brand new Musiland so I really can't offer any input on the improvement._

 


 Hi Shaman

 I believe you are the OP. Thanks very much for starting this thread. I have had my 01USD for a while and really enjoy it.

 But this is a classic case of the Head-Fi "double edged sword". If there would be 28 pages of negative reviews for any of these Musiland devices, we would not have to jump all of these hoops for a firmware upgrade. But that is not the case.

 It is absolutely absurd to have us go through all of this nonsense to upgrade the firmware. 

 I unistalled the 1.0.5.0 and went back to the 1.0.3.2....sounds awesome...That's all I need...If Musiland ever decides on releasing a firmware upgrade on these things without all the drama, I'm in....Until then "rock on"...

 Thanks for letting me vent....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 @Jeffrey- You know I'm a big fan of some of their devices including DACs, but this is absolutely ridiculous...BTW- I'm enjoying my Matrix Mini-i balanced DAC very much...Thanks


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Shaman

 I believe you are the OP. Thanks very much for starting this thread. I have had my 01USD for a while and really enjoy it.

 But this is a classic case of the Head-Fi "double edged sword". If there would be 28 pages of negative reviews for any of these Musiland devices, we would not have to jump all of these hoops for a firmware upgrade. But that is not the case.

 It is absolutely absurd to have us go through all of this nonsense to upgrade the firmware. 

 I unistalled the 1.0.5.0 and went back to the 1.0.3.2....sounds awesome...That's all I need...If Musiland ever decides on releasing a firmware upgrade on these things without all the drama, I'm in....Until then "rock on"...

 Thanks for letting me vent....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 @Jeffrey- You know I'm a big fan of some of their devices including DACs, but this is absolutely ridiculous...BTW- I'm enjoying my Matrix Mini-i balanced DAC very much...Thanks_

 

Do you have installed the firmare or not?


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have installed the firmare or not?_

 


 Hi gattari

 I installed it and sent the email, but I went back to the previous firmware (1.0.3.2)...


----------



## TheShaman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is absolutely absurd to have us go through all of this nonsense to upgrade the firmware._

 

I know what you mean.

 What I did was sent the email, go to bed and find the reply in my inbox the next morning.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 At some point later in the day you'll get that email though, don't worry.
 After that, the process takes a few seconds + a restart. 

 I'm more worried about the whole "pay for the upgrade" thing someone wrote about.. Hope it's all a misunderstanding.


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi gattari

 I installed it and sent the email, but I went back to the previous firmware (1.0.3.2)..._

 

How to for reinstall the old firmware?
 Perhaps have you installed only the driver?


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheShaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know what you mean.

 What I did was sent the email, go to bed and find the reply in my inbox the next morning.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 At some point later in the day you'll get that email though, don't worry.
 After that, the process takes a few seconds + a restart. 

 I'm more worried about the whole "pay for the upgrade" thing someone wrote about.. Hope it's all a misunderstanding._

 


 Lol...It's not the waiting...It's like you wrote maybe a "pay for upgrade" or who knows, once you update everything with the license, the device is "locked" only to one computer. When it comes to manufacturers capitalizing on a good product, who really knows. I have PCs all over the house and move the 01USD all over the place. I don't think that would be the case, but again, who knows.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How to for reinstall the old firmware?
 Perhaps have you installed only the driver?_

 

I uninstalled and deleted everything I unzipped in reference to the new update (there were folders everywhere
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 I reinstalled my previous version (1.0.3.2)...I never waited for the email with the new key...


----------



## joe_cool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I reinstalled my previous version (1.0.3.2)...I never waited for the email with the new key..._

 

Hard core. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 We don't need no stinkin' ...er... keys.


----------



## gattari

heatfan12 write:
 the device is "locked" only to one computer

 No, I use the same musiland 02 us in a computer with xp and in a notebook with seven for now, and I think this is possible for ever.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *joe_cool* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hard core. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 We don't need no stinkin' ...er... keys._

 







 Honestly, updating the firmware on an existing device that you purchased, should not be this time-consuming.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_heatfan12 write:
 the device is "locked" only to one computer


 No, I use the same musiland 02 us in a computer with xp and in a notebook with seven for now, and I think this is possible for ever._

 

Thank you gattari...I was using a possible example and you confirmed this is not the case.

 Grazie tanto...


----------



## denydog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheShaman* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is just an automated message.
 They only reply during (their) working hours, ofc. You might need to wait a bit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm starting to get a little impatient. I sent email Friday 4:45pm Bejing time, and have not received any type of response. 

 I figured they went home for the weekend, but I later read one post at least (on the Chinese Musiland forum?) about emailing Saturday evening and receiving key Sunday morning.

 I had a slight model number error in my first email, so I sent corrected email 3:00am Sunday, Bejing time. I had the License.dat file attached, and I also included the series of letters and numbers from the stick on bar code label that was afixed to the unit itself, as well as the warranty card, and also on the outside of the box it came in. I hope this is the serial number.

 Well, it will be the start of the Bejing Monday morning work day in an hour or two, so I'll see what happens then.


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Honestly, updating the firmware on an existing device that you purchased, should not be this time-consuming.





 Thank you gattari...I was using a possible example and you confirmed this is not the case.

 Grazie tanto...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 






 prego


----------



## kaushama

I have two devices USD01 and US01. I bought them to feed optical into my D10. But both of them gives me clicks and pops when using optical with D10. Annoying! It happens with both devices and WASPAI and ASIO. But analog out of the USD gives no such problem. This happens with both driver versions.


----------



## Kpalsm

I feel satisfied. I pointed a user at AVSforum to this thread and it resulted in them buying an 01.


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kaushama* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have two devices USD01 and US01. I bought them to feed optical into my D10. But both of them gives me clicks and pops when using optical with D10. Annoying! It happens with both devices and WASPAI and ASIO. But analog out of the USD gives no such problem. This happens with both driver versions._

 


 Hello k...

 Long time no see...

 I never had any clicks or pops at all. Just great sound and have tried it with several DACs, however, don't own the D10, sorry. I have tried it with its ASIO driver, WASAPI, KS. I have the 01USD, no analog. USB input, optical, coax, BNC (coax) output.



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kpalsm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I feel satisfied. I pointed a user at AVSforum to this thread and it resulted in them buying an 01. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 They are great devices, no doubt, it's just the whole updating the new firmware issue that has recently surfaced.


----------



## Kpalsm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are great devices, no doubt, it's just the whole updating the new firmware issue that has recently surfaced._

 

I made sure to point that out as well, but he bought it anyway. It must not be a concern to him. I'd buy one of these as well if I needed it, but my laptop has an HDMI output (via ATi HD2600) which suits me fine.


----------



## mmerrill99

Does this upgrade "Lock" the DAC to one computer? What is the number that somebody mentioned appeared in brackets in the installation? It seemed to indicate number of installations, maybe? Can anybody test installing & running DAC on another computer?


----------



## kaushama

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello k...

 Long time no see...

 I never had any clicks or pops at all. Just great sound and have tried it with several DACs, however, don't own the D10, sorry. I have tried it with its ASIO driver, WASAPI, KS. I have the 01USD, no analog. USB input, optical, coax, BNC (coax) output.






 They are great devices, no doubt, it's just the whole updating the new firmware issue that has recently surfaced._

 

I have been very busy but always closely watching the forum! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do not know whether it is due to a problem with D10 or the short optical cable I am using. 

 I do not have other DACs as i am confined to my portable rig these days. I am serving war affected population in Sri lanka as a consultant physician these days. So it is a very busy and mobile life.


----------



## seaice

Thanks jkeny for your great instructions on page 27. I have done everything accordingly and it was very easy, quick and without any problem, just one restart needed as you wrote. 

 I have received the e-mail with the licence.key only 6 hours after sending my request, that is nice.

 Only one note for all: After updating the firmware, there was still the message "Warning: Licence Invalid" in the drivers. I had to unplug my Musiland 01 USD for a while and plug it back and everything is ok now. I hope this may help someone potentially confused after updating the firmware. (But do NOT unplug it during the updating procedure! This could damage the device.)

 I am now going to investigate the sound. As far I have tried - the sound is at least as good as with the older drivers (1.0.3.2) - no clicking, no problem. I do not want to judge more now. It seems there may be some improvement, but there is always a new-driver-placebo-effect risk due to the more critical listening after the update.


----------



## Mikeb

I have the musiland 02 version which I find is an excellent usb sound device with excellent sound quality particularly when using the sdif output and have had no issues with wasapi or asio when using foobar (latest version) and I particularly like the control panel. I am however having second thoughts and a little peaved with the need to email and all the other requirements just to update the firmware or drivers, all the other usb devices I have eg. emu 0404usb do not not require anything like this, also the web site is difficult when trying to create a log on due to language problems, all very dissconcerting and has put me off buying another musiland product, I think I will stick with the original drivers, this has soured a very good product for me.


----------



## Olev

Mikeb, it is not that difficult, just do the steps and you are future proof. The drivers WILL BE free, they just want to implement a new framework for future driver releases. Do it once and you are set for as long as they support the devices.


----------



## danny_66

I've updated my 01USD and 02US without any problems. 
 The update is easy and painless 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It's basically nothing more than sending an email and applying the license key (10 minutes of work)
 See the instructions of jkeny on page 27.


----------



## glt

For those "afraid" of security, the new firmware probably has a handshaking feature that checks for a digital signature to make sure the driver and device are made by Musiland. The driver cannot be encrypted because it has to run on your computer. 

 But you already support this king of checking whether you know it or not: https, hdmi, DVI, etc. 

 The only people that are going to be affected are those that plan on cloning the hardware and taking advantage of the Musiland driver.


----------



## joe_cool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only people that are going to be affected are those that plan on cloning the hardware and taking advantage of the Musiland driver._

 

This is probably true but still many are concerned because of what Sony and others have done in the past. IMO it's a poor marketing decision because the restrictions of DRM will usually be defeated when there is a strong incentive.


----------



## glt

There is always incentive to pirate stuff... Marketing could have been smart about it and make the error messages less obvious (something like, "this version requires new firmware because of timing improvements") and then no one would know that a signature is being checked. But I guess in a different culture, trying to protect your stuff with RSA crypto is a good marketing thing. At least they were straight about it.


----------



## Olev

Agreed, they did not sneak anything thru the back door - change log clearly stated what and why they included a RSA authentication system. Being the first who discovered the new driver here I am somewhat ashamed that I asked if they were licensing the new driver - again, THEY ARE NOT ASKING MONEY FOR THE NEW DRIVER! They are just implementing hardware verification in the driver because of clones. And they are NOT restricting on how many computers you can use your hw (it is not anyhow connected to your PC like windows activation!)


----------



## joe_cool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed, they did not sneak anything thru the back door - change log clearly stated what and why they included a RSA authentication system. Being the first who discovered the new driver here I am somewhat ashamed that I asked if they were licensing the new driver - again, THEY ARE NOT ASKING MONEY FOR THE NEW DRIVER! They are just implementing hardware verification in the driver because of clones. And they are NOT restricting on how many computers you can use your hw (it is not anyhow connected to your PC like windows activation!)_

 

We all hope this is true and correct, but with drivers and other software that is not independently verified, "let the buyer beware".


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Agreed, they did not sneak anything thru the back door - change log clearly stated what and why they included a RSA authentication system. Being the first who discovered the new driver here *I am somewhat ashamed that I asked if they were licensing the new driver *- again, THEY ARE NOT ASKING MONEY FOR THE NEW DRIVER! They are just implementing hardware verification in the driver because of clones. And they are NOT restricting on how many computers you can use your hw (it is not anyhow connected to your PC like windows activation!)_

 


 Thanks for all the input joe_cool, glt, Olev, gattari.. and everyone else pertaining to this matter.

 And Olev, there is nothing to be ashamed about asking anything. You were correct to bring up the issue about licensing. Thanks...As you can tell, I was a bit surprised, but bringing it to light was the right thing to do, to sort all the facts.


----------



## tosehee

I found it little funny that 'cloning' is an issue that Chinese company wants to protect against..


----------



## Olev

Well that's another topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am more than sure that whoever is cloning will not stop cloning anymore because of respect for other china men etc, they will break the protection sooner or later like they have been doing since the 90's.


----------



## mmerrill99

So, it looks like it's not restricted to a single version or locked to a particular PC - good!

 So, sound improvements? - can more report on the improvements they are finding, if any!

 I know anti-piracy is the commercial reason for this encryption but no other USB DAC manufacturers have done similar, AFAIK - so why are they so paranoid?

 Edit: I too find it ironic, Toshee, Olev


----------



## HeatFan12

I personally think all this paranoia has stemmed from them reading jkeny's disassembling and conversion of their units...LOL

 Just kidding j....Good work...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Oh wait...I'm checking my email and I believe I see a license key in an attachment.....

 Good times ahead?


----------



## mmerrill99

Jeez, Heatfan - I'm getting paranoid now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Seriously though, I hope they understand that all I'm doing is modding the unit for better operation - there is a Cinese modder on their forum who has done similar mods to me.

 I did say to them at one point that the value of their product was in their software & that the hardware was standard off-the-shelf parts. Oops, I hope this didn't precipitate their move. This statement would apply to EMU, etc so it isn't any different for them.

 The point is, I doubt anybody could make the same or similar board as theirs for the price that they retail it at, so it doesn't make sense - why not just buy their DAC?


----------



## seaice

By the way, I own the Musiland Monitor 01 USD and E-MU 0404. What is the E-MU concerned, I have not found any way to work its digital output for standard Windows applications like Media Player etc. I can use the digital out of the E-MU only in some applications like Foobar etc. The E-MU 0404 drivers are very old, maybe that is the point... But the Musiland works well in this respect, there is no problem, I really like this small card as an universal digital transport for Windows. SQ is good and what is the new driver concerned, there may be some improvement, I think, but too soon to judge. The SQ is not worse, it is for sure - I hear deterioration in SQ very quickly. So, SQ is the same or better with the new driver, but I am not sure if it is better at the moment.


----------



## Clubnewmen

Hi. Anyone can answer under Windows Seven and Foobar2000 hi-res files 24/88.2 24/192 worked with some external 24/192 dac ?
 I`m have DrDac2 and it not worked with WASAPI and asio4all.
 I`m think Musiland help me.


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clubnewmen* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi. Anyone can answer under Windows Seven and Foobar2000 hi-res files 24/88.2 24/192 worked with some external 24/192 dac ?
 I`m have DrDac2 and it not worked with WASAPI and asio4all.
 I`m think Musiland help me._

 

Yes seems to work with asio and foobar, in seven I have option - auto - in control panel not visible.
 But I have other little problem in seven.
 It does not work means what? null output, foobar problem or what?
 Ciao


----------



## denydog

I finally received the unlock key, along with an apology for the delay. I now have the new driver up and running.

 The issue I've had with the clock lock indicator light on the Grace DAC not lighting at 44.1 kHz is unresolved. So there may still be a minor timing error at that sample rate. Looking at the Change Log, it doesn't seem like this was addressed. I guess this will be the pay-to-fix after all, that I saw mentioned earlier?

 The clock does lock on at 96 kHz, and still sounds fine at 44.1 kHz, even without the lock. I'm only concerned with the Grace's clock locking to the Musiland's signal as a potential for jitter reduction. 

 As for whether the sound is improved with the new driver, I'm not sure yet, and with my poor hearing I'm not sure I'll have a definitive answer.


----------



## azzafromnz

Got my unlock key today, running it on asio on windows 7. soundstage has gotten wider, bass seems a bit more pronounced than before. doesn't seem as delicate as before although the top end has improved, will leave it playing tonight and have listen in the morning. To me anyway its a night and day comparison from before and my system is only fairly revealing. Macrog will probably post his findings as he just got his running and he mentioned definitely a change in the sound department. Any more chinese reviews on the bbs yet?


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denydog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally received the unlock key, along with an apology for the delay. I now have the new driver up and running.

 The issue I've had with the clock lock indicator light on the Grace DAC not lighting at 44.1 kHz is unresolved. So there may still be a minor timing error at that sample rate. Looking at the Change Log, it doesn't seem like this was addressed. I guess this will be the pay-to-fix after all, that I saw mentioned earlier?

 The clock does lock on at 96 kHz, and still sounds fine at 44.1 kHz, even without the lock. I'm only concerned with the Grace's clock locking to the Musiland's signal as a potential for jitter reduction. 

 As for whether the sound is improved with the new driver, I'm not sure yet, and with my poor hearing I'm not sure I'll have a definitive answer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ah, so they haven't dealt with the 44.1KHz issue - I imagine you are correct about the paid version addressing this. If the only change to the paid version is this then you won't hear any difference - it doesn't effect the jitter. It's simply got to do with the combination of multipliers & dividers they are restricted to in using this particular FPGA to derive the clock. When they release the paid version it will probably be restricted to the 44.1, 96 speeds only.

 Thanks for the sound review!


----------



## HeatFan12

Okay, finally after following all the steps, receiving the license key and giving the required blood sample, I upgraded to 1.0.5.0 on my 01USD...


 First thing I noticed is where is the signal "auto" switching in the control panel? It has disappeared. Most of my music is 16/44.1 but I do have 24/96 albums also. Upon listening to redbook for 2 albums, next up was a 24/96 album. Music stopped and I had to reset it manually. Before the update, I was able to go from 16/44.1 to 24/96 without any re-setting.

 Before the update- 







 The sound- It sounds great, however, it sounded great before the update. The only difference I noticed is that it does not sound worse. 

 In reference to the "lock" issue. I have not had that problem, before or after the upgrade. Tried it on three different DACs and signal is correct and locked.

 I understand the "licensing issue" but why take away features of the original product on an upgrade?

 I still think this device is great. Just would like features to be "added" not "subtracted" from an upgrade.




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azzafromnz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got my unlock key today, running it on asio on windows 7. soundstage has gotten wider, bass seems a bit more pronounced than before. doesn't seem as delicate as before although the top end has improved, will leave it playing tonight and have listen in the morning. To me anyway its a night and day comparison from before and my system is only fairly revealing. Macrog will probably post his findings as he just got his running and he mentioned definitely a change in the sound department. Any more chinese reviews on the bbs yet?_

 


 Well, more power to you azzafromnz if you noticed all these changes.


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_

 First thing I noticed is where is the signal "auto" switching in the control panel? It has disappeared. 
 Well, more power to you azzafromnz if you noticed all these changes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Whats your operative system?
 In seven I have the same problem and little other, in xp I have no problem.
 Ciao


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Whats your operative system?
 In seven I have the same problem and little other, in xp I have no problem.
 Ciao_

 


 The laptop I have it connected to now is VistaX32.


----------



## DoYouRight

Windows 7 should be the selling point. Windows 7 destroys vista, the taskbar and libraries make it better than OSX and it runs as fast and some places faster than XP SP3. This thing is fantastic, if Microsoft can just get consumers angry at vista to trust its an upgrade. Shouldnt have to pay for it though if you have vista ultimate.

 Either way, Windows 7 is the key they need to address this ASAP. While I wait for my hiface, which sadly only works in DS or Kernel mode from my understanding. But kernel streaming should be alright I think. It uses a proprietary driver.


----------



## danny_66

Hello Heatfan2,
 I've also upgraded to 1.05 and I still have the AUTO in the control panel.
 OS: Windows XP


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *danny_66* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Heatfan2,
 I've also upgrade to 1.05 and I still got the AUTO in the control panel.
 OS: Windows XP_

 

Yes xp seems ok, vista and seven no


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *danny_66* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello Heatfan2,
 I've also upgrade to 1.05 and I still got the AUTO in the control panel.
 OS: Windows XP_

 


 Thank you danny_66...It must be a Vista issue...


 Here is the 1.0.5.0.







 This is in VistaX32...


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes xp seems ok, vista and seven no
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Thanks

 Vista & 7...


----------



## azzafromnz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HeatFan12* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First thing I noticed is where is the signal "auto" switching in the control panel? It has disappeared. Most of my music is 16/44.1 but I do have 24/96 albums also. Upon listening to redbook for 2 albums, next up was a 24/96 album. Music stopped and I had to reset it manually. Before the update, I was able to go from 16/44.1 to 24/96 without any re-setting.

 Well, more power to you azzafromnz if you noticed all these changes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey dude, what i have noticed is that although under the advanced section it shows the last sample rate used it does seem to be in auto as on the mixer screen the correct sample light is lit. I've just been playing around between redbook/96 and 192 and it hits it correct every time without pausing. Maybe reset up the playback software? I'm using win 7 and foobar with asio out.

 After leaving it playing all night i can honestly say there is an improvement in the sound from previous firmware/driver combo so something has most likely been improved in the jitter department unless the new driver sneaked in a new opamp while i wasn't watching, the sound is too night and day to be the imagination and i'm not sure that the driver has access to any other parameters that would affect the sound on such a scale.

 I would be curious to hear from anyone who has modded their US (not USD) and upgraded the driver.

 Best bang for buck in HiFi I've ever heard, I didn't even mind the huge hassle to flash the firmware.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *azzafromnz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After leaving it playing all night i can honestly say there is an improvement in the sound from previous firmware/driver combo so something has most likely been improved in the jitter department unless the new driver sneaked in a new opamp while i wasn't watching, the sound is too night and day to be the imagination and i'm not sure that the driver has access to any other parameters that would affect the sound on such a scale.

 I would be curious to hear from anyone who has modded their US (not USD) and upgraded the driver.

 Best bang for buck in HiFi I've ever heard, I didn't even mind the huge hassle to flash the firmware._

 

You have a model 01US & are playing back through analog out? Has the sound changed through the digital out? This would give an idea about what has changed.

 I have a modded 01US but I haven't yet upgraded the driver - why are you asking about a modded version?


----------



## azzafromnz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have a model 01US & are playing back through analog out? Has the sound changed through the digital out? This would give an idea about what has changed.

 I have a modded 01US but I haven't yet upgraded the driver - why are you asking about a modded version?_

 

Yep, direct into my pre. I can't test digital out as i have nothing to feed with the digital.

 Was curious to see what you could hear with the new driver as the mods you've done should increase the amount of detail let through. I intend to pull a couple of the easier mods on mine when i get a spare afternoon one day.


----------



## mmerrill99

What about others - any change through digital out?

 Easiest mod & good upgrade - external 5V supply

 Best mod for me - bypass output stage - feed DAC differential Vout to transformers

 I have a low jitter clock coming for next mod & I'm in no rush to upgrade driver/firmware, yet


----------



## Mikeb

As suggested on here I downloaded the new driver/firmware, unzipped it and installed as outlined in one of the posts on here sent off an email to musiland with the necessary details to await the licence key, still waiting after more than 24 hours no sign of key as yet, how long do you need to wait in this day and age of the internet for a mere key to unlock a programme/driver, I now have a part installed driver/firmware and a totally useless piece of musiland hardware which I can't use, its a great little usb dac spoilt totally by the very poor support of the manufacturer.


----------



## macrog

Yes the sound has improved through digital output also. The digital output now sounds better from the monitor 02us than from my Asus Xonar STX. They were both on a par before the driver upgrade.

 Biggest improvements from digital output are more precise imaging and increased naturalness of tone.

 I expected very little from upgrade and I am very suprised by how significant it is.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *macrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes the sound has improved through digital output also. The digital output now sounds better from the monitor 02us than from my Asus Xonar STX. They were both on a par before the driver upgrade.

 Biggest improvements from digital output are more precise imaging and increased naturalness of tone.

 I expected very little from upgrade and I am very suprised by how significant it is._

 

Hmm, that's interesting, macrog, as it suggests a reduction in jitter & the improvements you describe are typical to improvements when jitter is decreased. You say it's a significant improvement & not a maybe but a definite improvement? Others are less definite, maybe your playback system is more discerning? What's your playback system comprised of?

 It's frustrating that they don't say exactly what the improvements are in a new release, as other manufacturers do! If they have purposefully addressed some jitter issues, then why not say? Unless it's just an accident?

 Looks like I might be installing this after all if that is the general consensus?


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *macrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes the sound has improved through digital output also. The digital output now sounds better from the monitor 02us than from my Asus Xonar STX. They were both on a par before the driver upgrade.

 Biggest improvements from digital output are more precise imaging and increased naturalness of tone.

 I expected very little from upgrade and I am very suprised by how significant it is._

 

Yes I confirm now the digital output has increase, usually I don't like toslink output but now i verified that it seems perfect and yes I agree is the best step up of this new driver.
 Anyone can measure the total jitter of this toy?
 Ciao


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes I confirm now the digital output has increase, usually I don't like toslink output but now i verified that it seems perfect and yes I agree is the best step up of this new driver.
 Anyone can measure the total jitter of this toy?
 Ciao_

 

Measuring the jitter is a big job & requires expensive & sophisticated equipment - I doubt you will find anybody, other than manufacturers or Stereophile have such equipment. If the unit gets a review in Stereophile, we can expect a jitter measurement that can be compared with other equipment they have measured.

 In the absence of this, the best we can do is use our ears/brain, which ultimately is what it is all about, anyway. The problem is that the brain can often fool the ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not suggesting that this is happening here just that it's worth noting


----------



## Mikeb

Have finally got the licence key from musiland after sending another email after waiting nearly 48 hours, installation ok easy to upgrade firmware. Sounds great with my ATH AD1000 headphones, but noticed on the adavnce section there is now no auto just the sampling rates not sure what use these are as when I play a 88.2 or 96khz track it automatically changes the sampling rate on the first page of the control panel but the shown sampling rate on the advance tab still stays at 44khz. Also MMDI at the top of the panel when opened shows HF-BOX and HD-BOX what are these for any ideas, just to finish up are there any problems using the new driver/firmware on another computer and still maintaining it on my laptop?


----------



## gattari

Nothing problem to use musiland on more than one pc or laptop.
 Ciao


----------



## mmerrill99

Hey guys, I took the plunge - sent my email went shopping for the afternoon & when I came back saw that a license key had arrived via email 2 hours later - good service, I'm impressed. Haven't loaded & listened yet, just thought I'd post this first


----------



## denydog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nothing problem to use musiland on more than one pc or laptop.
 Ciao_

 

Correct.

 I've seen questions as to why the Musiland driver listed in some players is sometimes followed by a number. I believe it was explained on the Musiland forum that this has something to do with the number of USB drivers installed on that machine, and additional drivers installed would show sequentially higher numbers. I could be wrong since I don't read Chinese well (at all). My drivers (ASIO and KS) are no longer followed by a number for some reason.

 BTW- I don't think I can offer a useful comparison on any difference in sound between the driver versions, because I don't have a way to switch back and forth without a long delay.

 My hearing is also limited because I can't hear much above 10 kHz. In fact, I'm sort of questioning why I'm bothering to attend the RMAF in Denver this weekend since I can't hear half of it


----------



## lordearl

just got my 01 USD unit - only to read the last 5 pages of this thread to find out what a saga I was entering into! Can anyone post a link to the previous driver so us newbies w/musiland gear can play around with it while we wait for our confirmation emails?


----------



## glt

The enclosed CD should have the old driver


----------



## lordearl

yes - it does, but the software platform is in chinese....seems from the posts here that subsequent to the cd pressings there were other versions of the software released....


----------



## hawkhead

From this thread

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shiki* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.3.0.zip_


----------



## lordearl




----------



## AaronFL

Hi,
 I just received my Monitor 01US. I'm really excited to use this for the digital output. I am having some troubles however. I installed the included drivers and hooked up the optical output to my AV receiver. I went to my control panel and chose the Monitor as my hardware. Whenever I play music, the Monitor control panel mixer levels jump around, however I am not getting any digital output. I have the following settings:

 Digital Channel: Sync on
 WDM: Sync on
 Dig on
 Ana on
 ASIO Sync on
 Dig on
 Ana on

 I tried the headphone output and it seems to work just fine. I tried 2 difference AV receivers and both showed no output from the digital optical output. Anyone have any guidance...I can't wait to get this thing set up


----------



## joe_cool

Try a different cable.


----------



## AaronFL

Hi,
 Thanks for the reply! I went ahead and installed a different version of the drivers (1.0.3.2) and it works great now! This sounds soooo nice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...now I just have to wait for my license key for the 1.0.5 firmware.


----------



## DoYouRight

enjoy it! Very sweet indeed!


----------



## AaronFL

Wow! I've listened with the 01US via Dig for a few minutes and I am blown away! Before I was using the on-board sound card via 3.5mm to RCA output to the receiver. Using the 01US with the digital output to the receiver is amazing! The depth and separation are amazing. It gives me 3 dimensional character to the sound instead of sounding flat. I'm going to have a fun night messing with this!


----------



## AaronFL

I got the new 1.0.5.0 firmware upgrade and the digital out is still working perfectly. Have a great night
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!


----------



## AaronFL

I did a little reconfiguring last night. I decided to bypass my AV receiver and took the RCA outputs directly from 01US to my 2ch amp. Wow, the clarity is much better...so much for a $1400 receiver for the DAC. The internal DAC on the Musiland is far superior. It looks like I'm going to sell off the AV receiver and invest in a nice pre-amp and just feed it the analog RCA from the musiland. Maybe down the road I will purchase a high end DAC and feed it the optical from the Musiland.


----------



## K3cT

Anymore comparisons between this and the VALAB Teralink-X unit? I recalled slim.a seemed to prefer his Teralink no?


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AaronFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did a little reconfiguring last night. I decided to bypass my AV receiver and took the RCA outputs directly from 01US to my 2ch amp. Wow, the clarity is much better...so much for a $1400 receiver for the DAC. The internal DAC on the Musiland is far superior. It looks like I'm going to sell off the AV receiver and invest in a nice pre-amp and just feed it the analog RCA from the musiland. Maybe down the road I will purchase a high end DAC and feed it the optical from the Musiland._

 

What receiver are you using and what dedicated amp?


----------



## AaronFL

Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH and an Adcom GFA-555 Amp


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AaronFL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH and an Adcom GFA-555 Amp_

 

Hrm. I use VSX-92TXh and I thought it was pretty good. Have you played around with the setting and used "direct pure" or whatever it's called?


----------



## AaronFL

I think I'll play around with it some more. I like the control of having it hooked up with the receiver rather than directly off the musiland. I'll try a different optical cable too...the one I have is kind of old.


----------



## MerlinWerks

I just wanted to clarify my understanding of how the Musiland driver/license model works.

 For the regular firmware/driver (loose 44.1k clock accuracy) no special license is required. I could use this device freely between my HTPC and laptop.

 For the more accurate and purchased 44.1khz only firmware/driver, a license key is required and this locks your use of the device to only one computer at a time.

 Is this correct?


----------



## joe_cool

I have to say I believe this is incorrect.

 Why don't you take the time to fill out your profile. At least tell us what country you live in. Then read the other 32 pages of the thread.


----------



## hawkhead

I think there is only one driver (but several different version numbers). I have never had to pay and it works on more than one computer


----------



## denydog

Quote:


 For the regular firmware/driver (loose 44.1k clock accuracy) no special license is required. I could use this device freely between my HTPC and laptop.

 For the more accurate and purchased 44.1khz only firmware/driver, a license key is required and this locks your use of the device to only one computer at a time.

 Is this correct? 
 

Incorrect. joe_cool makes the point that the correct information is there, but I understand there are a lot of posts to sift through.

 To summarize my knowledge from reading all the information I've seen written so far, and my own experience;

 The first driver was 1.0.3.2, the second driver is 1.0.5.0 which does require a license key, but this key has no other consequence than the fact that it is needed to be able to use the driver with your Musiland on any device you wish.

 It is claimed by Musiland, and confirmed by some users, that the newer driver increases the sound quality, but I have not been able to confirm this myself.

 The slight sample inaccuracy at 44.1 kHz does not appear to have been corrected at this time. I have not run across any hard information, other than being mentioned by another poster, that there is or will be a driver to correct the 44.1 kHz sample rate, or what, if anything it might cost.

 I am open to correction by anyone with better information.


----------



## macrog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *MerlinWerks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just wanted to clarify my understanding of how the Musiland driver/license model works.

 For the regular firmware/driver (loose 44.1k clock accuracy) no special license is required. I could use this device freely between my HTPC and laptop.

 For the more accurate and purchased 44.1khz only firmware/driver, a license key is required and this locks your use of the device to only one computer at a time.

 Is this correct?_

 

I do not believe this would be logical in any way and this would clearly diminish sales which no company in their right mind would want to do. Free drivers that maximize the performance of manufactured products are in musilands interests.

 The 1.05 driver is not locked to a single computer if this is the driver you are refering to ? The license is locked to a single musiland product i.e. serial number etc


----------



## Tachikoma

They don't want the async code to be stolen by someone else, I guess?


----------



## lordearl

I found the updating process quite simple - the customer service was good (the language barrier was a marginal hassle - but that's part of an international dealing) and it is good to be part of a community of people using exactly the same gear. This device is, $ for $, one of the best available in the audio world.


----------



## MerlinWerks

Thanks for the replies. 

 Although I hadn't read the whole thread, I did read from the point of discussing the paid for upgrade (accurate 44.1khz clock/low jitter) through the license requirement for the new firmware/driver, to the end. I obviously missed something and was simply looking for clarification.

 Cheers


----------



## sampo

Is the headphone output in 01 US any good for driving 100ohm ER4Ss and does it have decent filtering for noisy usb power?


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sampo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the headphone output in 01 US any good for driving 100ohm ER4Ss and does it have decent filtering for noisy usb power?_

 

Yes and Yes.


----------



## shadowlord

my monitor 01usd arrived today.
 right now i'm testing it with my pc rig. i will later perform the necessary steps for the firmware upgrade.
 sounds good so far.

 since my main rig isn't easy to access i wonder if i should replace the esi maya44 soundcard, which provides digital out there, with the monitor?
 anyone compared the monitor with a decent soundcard?


----------



## macrog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shadowlord* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my monitor 01usd arrived today.
 right now i'm testing it with my pc rig. i will later perform the necessary steps for the firmware upgrade.
 sounds good so far.

 since my main rig isn't easy to access i wonder if i should replace the esi maya44 soundcard, which provides digital out there, with the monitor?
 anyone compared the monitor with a decent soundcard?_

 

The digital output of the monitor 02us sounds better than the digital output from my Asus Xonar stx soundcard (does that count as a decent soundcard?)


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *macrog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The digital output of the monitor 02us sounds better than the digital output from my Asus Xonar stx soundcard (does that count as a decent soundcard?)_

 

IMHO both are decent sound cards


----------



## shadowlord

update:
 i installed the new firmware today and tried it in my main rig where it supplies a audio-gd dac 3SE with the digital signal. (over coax cable)
 I noticed a lower noise floor than with the esi maya and the sound is at least as good if not better. 
 so it will definately keep it in my main rig.


----------



## Uri Cohen

I'm going to buy the 02 since it has a power supply (should be better than the 01 plus I don't have to use my laptop for power).

 This should do the trick, I don't want the Hifiman Ef2 since my laptop is loud enough so I don't really need an amp plus I could really use a better DAC than the one in the EF2. This DAC really helps when there's a headphone jack just for low power cans like Grados. 

 coolfungadget answer my email via ebay!

 thunderforcexiv is my handle there.


----------



## yanfeng

Hi there, I just upgraded from 1.0.3.0 to 1.0.5.0, and the improvement of sound quality is very obvious. It's completely worth the hassle. And it's not much hassle. Easier done than said.
 Mine is 01usd.


----------



## Ultratone

I would like to comment on the sound quality upgrading from 1.0.3.0 to 1.0.5.0 however I've been waiting since Friday (Oct. 16th) and have not received the required key from Musiland!!! 

 Asked coolfungadget on fleabay about response times and have not heard from them either?

 How long have people had to wait for their key?


----------



## denydog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ultratone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How long have people had to wait for their key?_

 

I sent three requests over a four day period before receiving the key and an apology.

 The response time seems to vary from about six hours, up to four days. You are at the long end of the range now.


----------



## Ultratone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denydog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I sent three requests over a four day period ......... You are at the long end of the range now._

 

Thanks dog. At least now, I see a little hope that I'll get the key someday.
 The weekend may have extended the time also, I guess.


----------



## Olev

New driver out ... google translation:
 Version Number: 1.0.5.2 

 Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI 1.0.5.2 version of the driver update: 
 1, to improve the DMA performance, reduce the risk of sonic boom. 
 2, Control Panel, optimized CPU occupancy.

http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.5.2.zip


----------



## mmerrill99

Anybody know what is meant by sonic boom - obviously something lost in translation


----------



## chinesekiwi

I have a big problem...I can't install even the drivers from the CD!

 I had to reformat my PC (yay for bad motherboard needing replacement) thus I had to install it again or at least try to. When I 'install' the driver off the CD, it says it's installed but Windows doesn't detect it one little bit. No Control Panel, it doesn't even show up in Device Manager under audio devices nor can I use it in Foobar2000. 

 Need help!


----------



## Olev

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody know what is meant by sonic boom - obviously something lost in translation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I guess some kind of crackling with buffer underrun? Just installed it, only thing that has changed according to version info is Driver 1.0.5.0>1.0.5.2. Everything else is the same as 1.0.5.0 - this is a minor update and before you ask - NO IT WILL NOT COST MONEY AND NO IT WILL NOT MAKE 44.1 BETTER FOR MONEY! This forum has gone nuts with Musiland and everyone thinking they are charging for drivers.


----------



## hawkhead

Should be under Sound, Video etc 


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a big problem...I can't install even the drivers from the CD!

 I had to reformat my PC (yay for bad motherboard needing replacement) thus I had to install it again or at least try to. When I 'install' the driver off the CD, it says it's installed but Windows doesn't detect it one little bit. No Control Panel, it doesn't even show up in Device Manager under audio devices nor can I use it in Foobar2000. 

 Need help!_


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess some kind of crackling with buffer underrun? Just installed it, only thing that has changed according to version info is Driver 1.0.5.0>1.0.5.2. Everything else is the same as 1.0.5.0 - this is a minor update and before you ask - NO IT WILL NOT COST MONEY AND NO IT WILL NOT MAKE 44.1 BETTER FOR MONEY! This forum has gone nuts with Musiland and everyone thinking they are charging for drivers._

 

No need to get prickly with me or shout 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - they are intending to release a driver which you will have to pay for & this driver is designed to fix the 44.1KHz speed issue which is probably what most people riled against. Trying to read translations from Chinese leads to less than perfect information so it's not surprising there are lots of questions.


----------



## Olev

Sorry I was not screaming to you. This has just popped up on many threads where people are deciding against Musiland with the only argument being "they are charging money for drivers". Sorry again!


----------



## momomo6789

if you use it in the same usb port that has windows usb driver installed you will get nothing.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry I was not screaming to you. This has just popped up on many threads where people are deciding against Musiland with the only argument being "they are charging money for drivers". Sorry again!_

 

No problem, Olev, I thought it was directed at me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I see that they have signed a contract with some European amp manufacturer for 1,000 units of their module version (MU8660) for inclusion in an amp priced at 2000 euro or $, I don't know - this is as much as I can glean from the translation.

 I do think they have made a two marketing boobs - one is the driver registration issue & secondly the 44.1KHz issue. I'm surprised they didn't find a way to resolve this 44.1KHz issue without drawing attention to it because it is a glaring technical fault (although it doesn't effect the sound). They failed to understand that, in the high street, hifi products tend to compete on specifications and this is a major blot on the specs!


----------



## StateRadioFan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ultratone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks dog. At least now, I see a little hope that I'll get the key someday.
 The weekend may have extended the time also, I guess._

 

Just an FYI from my experience with Musiland's license process. I sent the email with my Model/Serial Number/Dat File at 8:03PM PST. The auto responder came back around 8:30 and the new License.key file arrived at 9:10PM. This was done last night, 10/20/09. 

 The new driver does seem to improve SQ (wider soundstage, smoother HF) on my system. This is purely based on memory of a few songs I use for listening tests. I have no idea how you would do an A/B test of drivers without two identical systems & converters.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hawkhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Should be under Sound, Video etc_

 

It's not under there, I'm not silly...>.<


----------



## hawkhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's not under there, I'm not silly...>.<_

 

Sorry - best start at the beginning!

 Was this an upgrade from a previous driver ?

 Have you tried another USB cable / port ?
USB Problem Solver


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hawkhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry - best start at the beginning!

 Was this an upgrade from a previous driver ?

 Have you tried another USB cable / port ?
USB Problem Solver_

 

Tried different USB ports, I know the USB ports are working fine as I tested them with other devices. The drivers 'install' but the Control Panel never shows up. I did try the newer drivers but that didn't work. Tried another USB cable (same kind, used my printer's) and it still doesn't detect....


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do think they have made a two marketing boobs - one is the driver registration issue & secondly the 44.1KHz issue. I'm surprised they didn't find a way to resolve this 44.1KHz issue without drawing attention to it because it is a glaring technical fault (although it doesn't effect the sound). They failed to understand that, in the high street, hifi products tend to compete on specifications and this is a major blot on the specs!_

 

why is registration needed if the driver is free? they're afraid it'd be used for another USB device?

 ah, so it was a good guess that w/ a 24Mhz clock, there was no way in hell it could support 44.1KHz...


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tried different USB ports, I know the USB ports are working fine as I tested them with other devices. The drivers 'install' but the Control Panel never shows up. I did try the newer drivers but that didn't work. Tried another USB cable (same kind, used my printer's) and it still doesn't detect...._

 

 I R Sad. I need a solution eh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 In Task Manager, the driver process (MlCyMon.exe) shows up but my GUIs such as the Musiland Control Panel doesn't show up nor does it show up in Device Manager


----------



## argent81

think musiland dac is better than a audigy 2 zs?


----------



## Ultratone

Received the required key from Musiland today, actually from coolfungadget who helped me to 
 aquire the key. Thanks coolfungadget !!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Updated driver to 1.0.5.2 , no comments on sound yet, alto 
 playing cd tracks via foobar, which are at 44.1k are horrible 
 with static/noise. I guess this is what some people are complaining 
 about.


----------



## Prevtzer

How does this thing compare to HeadRoom Total BitHead?


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why is registration needed if the driver is free? they're afraid it'd be used for another USB device?

 ah, so it was a good guess that w/ a 24Mhz clock, there was no way in hell it could support 44.1KHz..._

 

The 44.1KHz issue does not effect the sound in any way that is noticeable - it's just a specification boob that magazine reviews would pick up on & expose.

 I don't know why they didn't devote their undoubted software expertise to correcting this if even to stop us talking about it - look how many sales have been lost because of the false notion that this effects the sound. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ultratone* 
_Updated driver to 1.0.5.2 , no comments on sound yet, alto playing cd tracks via foobar, which are at 44.1k are horrible 
 with static/noise. I guess this is what some people are complaining 
 about. ._

 

Is it the above 44.1KHz issue you are referring to? If so then you're incorrect - it doesn't effect the sound - your static noise issues cause is to be found elsewhere. Was it not there on the previous driver version?


----------



## momomo6789

Switching from 1.0.5.0 to 1.0.5.2 theirs no difference in SQ. also mine works fine with cds no static.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *argent81* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_think musiland dac is better than a audigy 2 zs?_

 

it sounds better then from my forte so i would think so.


----------



## momomo6789

so right after i wrote that post guess what happened STATIC just playing a regular old mp3 320. paused then started again and it was gone.


----------



## FauDrei

New 1.0.5.2 has noise/clicking issues only in ASIO mode:

When playing music for the first time (constant noise in right channel). Solvable with stop/play again.
Between tracks (short click at the start of new track) - only when starting different track while playing first track.
By the symptoms it seems that Musiland programmers forgot to "flush" or "silence" buffers somewhere in ASIO code...


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FauDrei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New 1.0.5.2 has noise/clicking issues only in ASIO mode:

When playing music for the first time (constant noise in right channel). Solvable with stop/play again.
Between tracks (short click at the start of new track) - only when starting different track while playing first track.
By the symptoms it seems that Musiland programmers forgot to "flush" or "silence" buffers somewhere in ASIO code..._

 

Has anybody else experienced this? I haven't been using mine for a while & I' still on 1.0.5.0 version but I did notice a click at the start of playing or switching tracks . I wonder is this what is referred to as "sonic boom" in translation?

 Faudrei, you seem to know something about ASIO programming - have you encountered these symptoms before?


----------



## coolfungadget

*A reviewed sample of Musiland Monitor 01 US is for sale starting from $0.99. Click HERE to bid.*


----------



## Ultratone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ultratone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_.........playing cd tracks via foobar, which are at 44.1k are horrible 
 with static/noise. I guess this is what some people are complaining 
 about._

 

Sorry about that, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 restarting does fix it. Not sure I have all settings 
 configured for best output. Currently using Foobar w/SecretRabbitCode 
 set to 176 or 192 output.

 Output is to Buffalo Sabre32.


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FauDrei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New 1.0.5.2 has noise/clicking issues only in ASIO mode:

When playing music for the first time (constant noise in right channel). Solvable with stop/play again.
Between tracks (short click at the start of new track) - only when starting different track while playing first track.
By the symptoms it seems that Musiland programmers forgot to "flush" or "silence" buffers somewhere in ASIO code..._

 

I have the same problem, I reinstalled the 1.50
 Ciao


----------



## mmerrill99

Remember the 1.0.5.2 is BETA software - so some problems are to be expected!


----------



## FauDrei

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anybody else experienced this? I haven't been using mine for a while & I' still on 1.0.5.0 version but I did notice a click at the start of playing or switching tracks . I wonder is this what is referred to as "sonic boom" in translation?

 Faudrei, you seem to know something about ASIO programming - have you encountered these symptoms before?_

 

JKeny,

 I have no experience with ASIO programming. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I "diagnosed" the possible source of the problem based on my general programming experience (I'm some kind of SW engineer): if you do not flush and/or initalize your buffers - you never know what lies there (old data?) and if you just play such a buffer, this non flushed data can sound like anything.

 But this is rather minor and very easy solvable problem. I find 1.0.5.2 somewhat unstable under stressing conditions (opening, closing, changing sample rates, swaping WDM and ASIO)... I had two or three occasions when I had to unplug and re-plug my Monitor (USB connection) to get it "right on track". I find this more worrying although definitely NOT a showstopper.

 Beside that, 1.0.5.2 is "faster" - it uses less CPU and associated IRQ's/DPC's and therefore have better latencies. Most probably Musiland programmers are optimising DMA usage in the drivers. It seems they are going in good direction... but they are not yet there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...as you said - it is beta, and by installing beta you implicitly accept possible glitches. I find 1.0.5.2 acceptable and are still using it in my setup.


----------



## joe_cool

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ultratone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Currently using Foobar w/SecretRabbitCode 
 set to 176 or 192 output._

 

In my experience, using SecretRabbitCode at "Best Sinc Interpolator" for 96kHz or 192kHz conversion always causes problems (I use a 3GHz Prescott CPU).

 Try a different SRC, maybe PPHS and see if problems are reduced. On the other hand, if your Buffalo (very high quality) DAC can't play 44kHz music with good sound then I would be surprised. SRC is not always a good thing.


----------



## Ektalog

I am looking for one that does this for a friend. He wants the closest to audiophile quality that also can work with Media Center (and variants) for movies, USB type. The only good choice I currently see is the M-Audio Transit USB.

 For myself (audio only), the Musiland USD is intriguing, the M2tech HiFace is most appealing. The basic HRT Streamer could also be in the run if I decide not to pursue 24/192...but it really would need to be superior in sound (at this price point, of course).

 Your input will be appreciated.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *FauDrei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_JKeny,

 I have no experience with ASIO programming. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I "diagnosed" the possible source of the problem based on my general programming experience (I'm some kind of SW engineer): if you do not flush and/or initalize your buffers - you never know what lies there (old data?) and if you just play such a buffer, this non flushed data can sound like anything.

 But this is rather minor and very easy solvable problem. I find 1.0.5.2 somewhat unstable under stressing conditions (opening, closing, changing sample rates, swaping WDM and ASIO)... I had two or three occasions when I had to unplug and re-plug my Monitor (USB connection) to get it "right on track". I find this more worrying although definitely NOT a showstopper.

 Beside that, 1.0.5.2 is "faster" - it uses less CPU and associated IRQ's/DPC's and therefore have better latencies. Most probably Musiland programmers are optimising DMA usage in the drivers. It seems they are going in good direction... but they are not yet there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...as you said - it is beta, and by installing beta you implicitly accept possible glitches. I find 1.0.5.2 acceptable and are still using it in my setup._

 

Interesting, faudrei, I sent Musiland a link to a Xilinx paper which showed how to improve cycle to cycle jitter which you might be interested in as you come from a software background http://japan.xilinx.com/products/boa..._generator.pdf
 PM me if you want to discuss it further as I know it is off-topic & don't want to pollute the thread


----------



## Audio Bling

Interesting comments made by John Swenson about the musiland here:

Digital Drive: Some thoughts on async etc. by John Swenson

 John does an excellent job of explaining the musiland methodology and its deficiencies, viz. the drivers will need to be supported and its clocks could be much better!


----------



## gevorg

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Audio Bling* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Interesting comments made by John Swenson about the musiland here:

Digital Drive: Some thoughts on async etc. by John Swenson

 John does an excellent job of explaining the musiland methodology and its deficiencies, viz. the drivers will need to be supported and its clocks could be much better!_

 

I found this interesting:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *John Swenson* 
_The one that is interesting is the Musiland thingy. It actually implements an async mode, but NOT the official one, so it requires a custom driver. They took an asynchronous bulk data mode implemented by the USB chip they use and wrote a custom driver to implement an audio interface for it.* But then they messed up the rest of it by using a frequency synthesizer to generate the audio clocks rather than using very low jitter oscillators!*_

 

Wonder if Musiland can comment on this. Or maybe address this issue in the next revision of 01 USD and its variants.


----------



## mmerrill99

Yep, JS is correct, they should have used two low jitter clocks to generate the audio clocks. As far as I can tell their business strategy is to release a product later at a higher price that is further up on the audio ladder - I've gleaned this by reading their forum replies translated by Google
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. They consider the existing product range just for mass market appeal.

 So the question is - how bad is the frequency synthesiser used? Normally, these add a lot of jitter to the clock. In this case, it seems not to be so bad because it's using the Xilinx DCM (digital clock management) in the FPGA. JS did a good analysis of this also here: DiyHiFi graph of Musiland Vs AP SYS2722

 His conclusion of 300ps jitter at the output pins is probably considered good, but not excellent (he doesn't consider it good). This is compared to the 970ps being reported for the M2Tech at the output. Edit: slim.a pointed out that this was an unfaircomparison as the M2tech jitter was a measured value at the output of the SPDIF whereas the Musiland was a theoretical jitter value at the FPGA pin output 

 This 300ps is also the max value that it could be with all gates in the FPGA firing, etc. Another view on this comes from some measurements taken http://go.head-fi.org/?id=475X763&ur...40486%23p40486 where the noise of the Musiland was plotted against the noise from an AP SYS2722 and showed it only slightly higher (2-5dB). Interestingly, the SYS2722 was(is?) the equipment used by Stereophile to do it's jitter measurements on equipment. Other measurements were done by FMAK on Audioasylum which indicated a jitter measure of about 100ps.

 It would be good to measure the Musiland & M2Tech & whatever else with the same equipment to get a relative ranking of jitter from these units as using absolute jitter figures is fraught with danger.

 Anyway, I'm changing the crystal in the Musiland for a low jitter clock (with good PS) & will see if it makes a difference to the sound


----------



## Olev

Reading Musiland BBS and translating with google it seems that 1.0.6.0 driver is in the beta phase (not general download) and reportedly it has again reduced CPU usage and ASIO "sonic boom" (nice translation) problems.


----------



## mmerrill99

Have I been a bold boy?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I went to the Musiland forum I saw that my account status had changed to "Beggar" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 & I could no longer read any threads - I had to get Jeffrey to register me under another username. Has anybody else had this problem?

 Is the ASIO "sonic boom" problem the static noise & clicks reported here? 

 Good to see they are turning around beta releases quickly - it augers well for future driver support (one of the issues Swenson drew attention to) 

 BTW, I just missed out on that unit on ebay - my $50 bid was a second too late 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - did one of you guys snag it at $48.70? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS Faudrei, Looks like they copped the ASIO buffer problem or else they might have read your analysis


----------



## jjsoviet

Okay, a noob question. What is the Musiland Monitor's output? Can it be used in conjunction with the iBasso D2+Boa or the D10 Cobra? Thanks.


----------



## Mr.Mantas

jjsoviet, you can use it with D10.


----------



## seraphjei

I was looking for a relatively cheap alternative DAC I could buy that I could pair with the Heed Canamp while I save up a few more weeks until I can buy a V-dac. Is the Musiland Monitor 01 US a good choice for a budget DAC to use with my laptop and Canamp?


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep, JS is correct, they should have used two low jitter clocks to generate the audio clocks. As far as I can tell their business strategy is to release a product later at a higher price that is further up on the audio ladder - I've gleaned this by reading their forum replies translated by Google
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. They consider the existing product range just for mass market appeal.

 So the question is - how bad is the frequency synthesiser used? Normally, these add a lot of jitter to the clock. In this case, it seems not to be so bad because it's using the Xilinx DCM (digital clock management) in the FPGA. JS did a good analysis of this also here: DiyHiFi graph of Musiland Vs AP SYS2722

 His conclusion of 300ps jitter at the output pins is probably considered good, but not excellent (he doesn't consider it good). This is compared to the 970ps being reported for the M2Tech at the output. Edit: slim.a pointed out that this was an unfaircomparison as the M2tech jitter was a measured value at the output of the SPDIF whereas the Musiland was a theoretical jitter value at the FPGA pin output 

 This 300ps is also the max value that it could be with all gates in the FPGA firing, etc. Another view on this comes from some measurements taken DIYHiFi.org &bull; View topic - Musiland 24/192 USB Asynchronous Devices where the noise of the Musiland was plotted against the noise from an AP SYS2722 and showed it only slightly higher (2-5dB). Interestingly, the SYS2722 was(is?) the equipment used by Stereophile to do it's jitter measurements on equipment. Oth

 Anyway, I'm changing the crystal in the Musiland for a low jitter clock (with good PS) & will see if it makes a difference to the sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Another measurement of jitter in musiland 02 us:




 Show about 270ps, this is a measurement of GEFRUSTI a videohifi forum member.


----------



## Uri Cohen

^^

 Good or terrible?


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *HyperDuel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^

 Good or terrible?_

 

For the price I think is an excellent result.
 I believe that a jitter less than 250 ps is very difficult to detect even for those who have ears and trained experts. 
 With this value we are almost there.
 But it seems however that the opinions about the musiland's jitter are far from homogeneous.
 Jkeny let us know the impressions after crystal change. 
 Ciao


----------



## Uri Cohen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gattari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the price I think is an excellent result.
 I believe that a jitter less than 250 ps is very difficult to detect even for those who have ears and trained experts. 
 With this value we are almost there.
 Ciao_

 

Sweet, well I already own it on the 02 US thread and so far it's pretty amazing for the price.


----------



## denydog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *seraphjei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is the Musiland Monitor 01 US a good choice for a budget DAC to use with my laptop and Canamp?_

 

You probably had a typo, but it's either 02 US or 01 USD.

 02 US includes a DAC and PS, along with converter function. I'd give it a thumbs up.


----------



## FauDrei

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Olev* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reading Musiland BBS and translating with google it seems that 1.0.6.0 driver is in the beta phase (not general download) and reportedly it has again reduced CPU usage and ASIO "sonic boom" (nice translation) problems._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_PS Faudrei, Looks like they copped the ASIO buffer problem or else they might have read your analysis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I can only confirm that 1.0.6.0 has no "sonic boom" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in ASIO, latency is on 1.0.5.2 level or lower and, most importantly, reliability has improved under stress testing (could not manage to make it crash or freeze). SQ wise I perceive no difference to 1.0.5.2 (there might be some to 1.0.5.0 but not sure and definitely not for worse).

 AFAIC - 1.0.6.0 can easily be released.


----------



## seraphjei

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denydog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You probably had a typo, but it's either 02 US or 01 USD.

 02 US includes a DAC and PS, along with converter function. I'd give it a thumbs up._

 

I was referring to:

USB Digital Sound Card - Musiland Monitor 01 US - eBay (item 350224614201 end time Nov-07-09 09:18:19 PST)

 Or will this not work with my intended setup?


----------



## Kpalsm

What about using this as a digital (S/PDIF) transport for 5.1/7.1, is that possible, or is it stereo only?


----------



## denydog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *seraphjei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was referring to:

USB Digital Sound Card - Musiland Monitor 01 US - eBay (item 350224614201 end time Nov-07-09 09:18:19 PST)

 Or will this not work with my intended setup?_

 

Sorry, my mistake. I didn't remember there are three similar models. The 01 US has a DAC, so will work for you. The other version I mentioned has the PS added. 

 coolfungadget is a great vender. That's who I got mine from. I received mine for the advertised price in 4 days from Shanghai !


----------



## Ektalog

It appears so, please see my posting and others' here:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/mu...86/index6.html


----------



## Wood

I have been trying the Musiland 01 usd with all drivers up to 1.0.6.0 with my Valab Dac.

 Very disapointed from what I expected reading this forum. The Musiland, removes the inner detail that gives the musicality and reality to the music. It also kills the impact of timpany, snares drums etc. Added to that a loss of bass/depth. I cant think of anything positive to say about this toy!


----------



## Wood

Ok been swapping some of the caps for silmic and panasonic fm. Vast improvement over the stock caps.

 It now reduces noise from jitter, without taking anything away. Its gone from a dud to a keeper! Suspect this unit requires some burn in as well. But will still do some more testing for long term musicality.


----------



## mmerrill99

Wood,
 Glad it's coming good for you - I've done some mods to it which improves it tremendously & here's a thread which also did some mods to it & concludes it's the equal of his CD transport (don't know which one yet?). Music Server Computer transport - Hop On! - diyAudio


----------



## Wood

jkeny,

 Basicaly swapped the 5 caps there, but when I tried to put a 1000uf 16v across the usb power in on the bottom of the board, the computer did not recognise the Musiland, so I took it of, any ideas for on this? Ive seen your mod now, wow you must have superb eyesight to cap that p2mu!


----------



## mmerrill99

There is a timing constraint on the Cypress chip where the clock has to be initialised within 200uS of power to the Cypress but this shouldn't effect your set-up with the 1000uf cap if it was on the USB power-in & it was the correct polarity. AFAIR, I put 1000uF across the USB PS in at the p2mu esd chip but I've since taken it off as I think it became disconnected & I felt it wasn't stable enough there!
 What will give you a much cleaner PS is to supply it from external PS - no mods needed to DAC, just cut into your USB cable & snip the red +5V wire & bare the Black ground wire (don't cut it). Now connect your external +5V to red & external ground to black wire. This can all be hidden in an external box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Best mod to date apart from clock mod which is still under evaluation.


----------



## Wood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is a timing constraint on the Cypress chip where the clock has to be initialised within 200uS of power to the Cypress but this shouldn't effect your set-up with the 1000uf cap if it was on the USB power-in & it was the correct polarity. AFAIR, I put 1000uF across the USB PS in at the p2mu esd chip but I've since taken it off as I think it became disconnected & I felt it wasn't stable enough there!
 What will give you a much cleaner PS is to supply it from external PS - no mods needed to DAC, just cut into your USB cable & snip the red +5V wire & bare the Black ground wire (don't cut it). Now connect your external +5V to red & external ground to black wire. This can all be hidden in an external box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Best mod to date apart from clock mod which is still under evaluation._

 

Thanks for the thread etc, I will try tapping the 5v from my DC-30w external dac power supply, will let you know what happens!


----------



## mmerrill99

Just be careful to ensure that you connect it properly - make sure your USB red wire is carrying the +5V & black is ground, before you connect up the external 5V DC - one person I know of has destroyed their unit & I suspect it could only have been wrong connection or the +5V getting onto the D+/D- lines by shorting across. So be careful - I don't want to be seen as responsible for drumming up more business for Musiland


----------



## Wood

Ok did the cable mod, wow, gives it the kick it was missing!

 Will try replacing the pulse transformes with resistors, if we find out what value they used on DIYAUDIO, though still not sure why this would be a good thing?


----------



## Wood

There is still a slight lack of grip in the sound though. But still needs burning in I guess?


----------



## mmerrill99

I wouldn't suggest changing the transformers for resistors until more evidence is shown that they are an advantage - I have a question in to BCherry on that thread on DIYA. To me you lose galvanic isolation by removing the SPDIF transformers & that is not a good thing. So as long as the transformers pass the signal without too much corruption then they are probably fine.

 The transformers are fine! This was an early posting on Diyhifi about their unsuitablility but was later modified. Fmak, on AA has done many tests on this DAC & has passed the transformers as fit for the job up at 24/192 & has reported that the eye pattern is very good!

 A lack of grip on the sound, hmm, maybe the clock, maybe try a better external supply - it will respond to this! What are the details of the PS you are using? Try 5 from battery to see if there is any value to a cleaner PS


----------



## Wood

Pretty certain lack of grip isnt the power supply, as its the one I use to drive the dac. It could well be the crummy coax I am using. I place the board inside the Dac box, and wire the spidf directly with silver hook up, and see what happens.

 Am a little suspicious about throwing out the tranformers for the same reasons. But the clock thing hmmm, have you had any luck with that Jkeny?


----------



## Wood

Jkeny,

 With a nice glass of wine and the kind assistance of Mr Beethoven and Mr Karajan, Ive now compared closely the Musiland and the AC97 output from the MB, using the same crummy coax. There is no doubt the Musiland goes a long way to teasing out the strands of the orchestra, and cleaning grunge. But the AC97 does a better job of attack, and kettle drums sound deeper and more resonant then with the Musiland. 

 This leaves the AC97 the more musical, and the Musiland a more precise but a softer presentation.

 These differences are not huge, but at the moment the AC97 still has the edge, literaly, for me.

 But I think there is great potential in this little box, as seen by the changes with simple mods so far. So I will perservere


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Pretty certain lack of grip isnt the power supply, as its the one I use to drive the dac. It could well be the crummy coax I am using. I place the board inside the Dac box, and wire the spidf directly with silver hook up, and see what happens.

 Am a little suspicious about throwing out the tranformers for the same reasons. But the clock thing hmmm, have you had any luck with that Jkeny?_

 

Yep, have a look here: M2TECH Hiface USB->SPDIF 24/192Khz asynch - Page 5 - diyAudio


----------



## Wood

jkeny,

 The improvements you describe seem exactly what Ive noticed lacking, any chance you could post some pics in this forum, as I am not a member of diyaudio?


----------



## mmerrill99

Ah go on, become a member - it'll be easier than me posting the pics here as there is a size limitation here that means I would have to compress them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Besides that there's no general interest in these modifications over here based on the thread I started here


----------



## Wood

Ok jkeny, will join in over there (looking back on this thread I see there was an, err? issue about modding, pity).

 But first some more testing (listening to music, god I love this hobby!)


----------



## Wood

Ok I think I cracked it, that is got the musicality out of the Musiland. I tapped the output of the spidf before the Galvanic transformers and using short wires and soldered them directly onto the spidf in on my Teradak 2.5 dac board. It now rocks!

 Also changed 3 of the caps for 1000uf which gives a deeper bass.

 This whole setup now is the closest I have heard digital come to a decent turntable since philips dropped the CD player on us.


----------



## lordearl

Wood - can you now give us a listing of all your mods + the complete system you are using?


----------



## Wood

Latest version foobar

 Musiland, powered to usb lead by Teradak DC-30w (also powers my Teradak v2.5) replaced caps with any old caps, just higher UF, yet to try low esr types. Tapped the output before the Galvanic spidf transformer, and short wired it directly onto spidf input on Dac board.

 Terakdac 2.5 built in reclocker, 1uf Obligato output caps bypassed with Russian Teflon, Texas naked resistors for i/v.

 Yaquin cd1 valve buffer, 1uf Obligato output caps bypassed with Russian Teflon, input caps replaced with wire, large Cerefine cap across power rails, and with tesla gold pin 6922.

 Charlize2, caps replaced with Silmic2, TKD pot, Cerefine across power pins of chip, SLA battery powered, hook up all silver high purity.

 Speakers, Polk Rti A1. tweeter cap replaced with Clarity cap SA, bypassed with Russian Teflon, (still waiting to change other caps with Amphom ).
 Speaker cable, high purity silver in litz configuration


----------



## Wood

I think the thing to try, is move the spidf wires to the input of the transformer, that for me brought back the musicality, my reasoning to solder straight to the dac, was because I have a crummy coax, and I figured the usb side of things is corrected by the Musiland async control, but the coax is not. Its easy to do, and can be put back if it doesnt work for you.


----------



## shadowlord

hmm, i might try the power supply mod.
 Only thing is where to get a decent PSU ?


----------



## mmerrill99

Aha, Wood, so the idea of dispensing with the SPDIF transformer is not such a bad one after all - after my questions to BCherry over on DIYA, I was coming to the same conclusion but needed some consensus or measurements to confirm this. Your experience seems to add weight to the benefit of the mod. Well done!

 My focus up to now, has been on the output from the on-board PCM1793 DAC so I've ignored the SPDIF out!


----------



## Wood

No need to take the transformer out and replace with resistors this way, and so totally reversible. If you try it Jkeny let us know what you think, I need to know if I am still sane, and that works for others. I soldered to the pins on the bottom of the board.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No need to take the transformer out and replace with resistors this way, and so totally reversible. If you try it Jkeny let us know what you think, I need to know if I am still sane, and that works for others. I soldered to the pins on the bottom of the board._

 

The only proviso I would put on the mod would be to use some resistors in series on the lines to bring the signal within SPDIF spec & to put about 10R in the ground line for some gnd isolation as BCherry did. I'm not in a position to try this for a number of days yet!


----------



## Wood

Mine is grounded on the dac side with a resistor so I guess thats ok, would you use a 75r in the signal, or somthing else?


----------



## mmerrill99

I'll have to look into all of this but here's what the DIYA poster did:
  Quote:


 So what we have done is place a low value resistor in the ground leg (10R - IIRC) to provide some ground loop isolation and a second series resistor with the output of the driving gate, to bring the impledance close to 75R, ...

 This way we get around 1.5V P-P into 75R. 
 

BTW, is it the resistor attenuation circuit before the transformer that's at fault leading to a lower SPDIF voltage output & not the transformer itself? Where have you connected your wires to?


----------



## Wood

Hi, connected the wires to the underside of the board to the input side of the transformer, so I get the signal going into the transformer not going out, on the dac side they just go to the point on the board where the rca wires go.


----------



## Wood

Ive been doing some more listening, this time comparing with the direct usb input to the dac. 

 At first I thought the bass timpany instruments were tighter with the direct usb, but with more A/B'ing, it seems there is more bass in that the instruments sound larger with the musiland. In fact the soundstage is the same width and only slightly deeper with the musiland, but now I have height, like seeing a taller photograph, but not wider. This also gave me the false impression that the volume was louder with the musiland, it is not, its just.... bigger! All this is with no nothing caps I had lying around, and cheap wiring, as this is just a test rig.


----------



## Wood

Now compared the jkeny special powered usb cable to normal.

 Normal is still a big improvement over the unmodded Musiland, but the jkeny special is the grown up sound.


----------



## momomo6789

these work in 64 bit vista ?


----------



## Wood

I think so, I am using 32 bit vista. But stock I found this Musiland sterile, very disapointing. It was only when I bypassed the transformer on the board, the musicality returned. Other mods like caps and extenal power contribute other important benifits, but in themselves did not help the sterility much. It was so bad I nearly dumped it in the parts bin. But now modded, its more then I had hoped.


----------



## mmerrill99

Now that I'm home from work & have a moment to think, I realise I don't have a SPDIF out on my 01US only Toslink - so no transformer to bypass or remove 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 In time, I had intended to mod into SPDIF, so I'll be trying it with just series resistors in the lines first off.


----------



## Wood

Replaced the 5 caps with Silmic II 10uf.

 Lots of detail coming through, cleaned up the bass nicely. 
 But got to wait at least a week until they settle in


----------



## Ultratone

Hi,
 Has anyone else experienced this problem after modifying the Monitor 01 USD
 to use an external PS via the "jkeny" USB cable mod for external PS? 

 When disconnecting the mod'ed cable to A/B against an unmod'ed cable the PC locks up! I'm guessing the grounds between the PCs USB ground and the external PS on the USB cable may have a voltage differential? 

 I did seem to hear a smoother more detailed sound via the mod'ed USB cable. 
 Would like to A/B to be sure.


----------



## Wood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ultratone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 Has anyone else experienced this problem after modifying the Monitor 01 USD
 to use an external PS via the "jkeny" USB cable mod for external PS? 

 When disconnecting the mod'ed cable to A/B against an unmod'ed cable the PC locks up! I'm guessing the grounds between the PCs USB ground and the external PS on the USB cable may have a voltage differential? 

 I did seem to hear a smoother more detailed sound via the mod'ed USB cable. 
 Would like to A/B to be sure._

 

I'm not getting that at all, but computers are strange animals. If its only with A/Bing then I guess long term it wont be a problem.

 But strange nevertheless............


----------



## mmerrill99

Ultratone, you are probably right about the ground(s) differential. I can't say I have experienced the PC locking up. You're sure all is wired up correctly because the difference in sound between the USB & external PS was immediately noticeable in my system. I guess it depends on the quality of the USB PS - mine was from a Dell laptop run off the Dell external brick PS (not the cleanest)


----------



## Ultratone

Thanks jkeny & Wood for your replies. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure the cable is done correctly, as per directions. 
 Red power wire snipped and external ps connected to red line 
 going into Monitor 01 USD. USB black ground wire insulation 
 opened up to allow connection to extnL ps. 
 External ps is hobbled together with 8volt xfmr>diode bridge>
 22,000uF cap with 100R bleeder resistor>7805ct reg>cable

 And, yes the improvement seemed obvious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd like to try bypassing the spdif transformer on the board. 
 However, when I opened up the case I find that the circuit 
 board seems to be hot glued, at least at the end I can see.
 How did you guys manage to push out the board!


----------



## glt

Yeah, whenever you interrupt the power (like swapping cables), the driver will loose its connection to the device. I guess that's normal behaviour.


----------



## Wood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ultratone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks jkeny & Wood for your replies. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure the cable is done correctly, as per directions. 
 Red power wire snipped and external ps connected to red line 
 going into Monitor 01 USD. USB black ground wire insulation 
 opened up to allow connection to extnL ps. 
 External ps is hobbled together with 8volt xfmr>diode bridge>
 22,000uF cap with 100R bleeder resistor>7805ct reg>cable

 And, yes the improvement seemed obvious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd like to try bypassing the spdif transformer on the board. 
 However, when I opened up the case I find that the circuit 
 board seems to be hot glued, at least at the end I can see.
 How did you guys manage to push out the board! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Same for me, I delicately, chipped away at the glue which is on one side, until it was free. The downside is that it slips to easily into the case when you put everything back, so putting the usb in pushes the board further into the case, so you would have to reglue it when mods are finnished.


----------



## Ultratone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Same for me,..., so you would have to reglue it when mods are finnished._

 

Thanks


----------



## mmerrill99

I've looked into the SPDIF transformer bypassing a bit more & am quite convinced that if there are no ground loop problems then bypassing the transformer is beneficial. If you are sending the SPDIF signal to a DAC with CS84XX receivers then you will need a higher voltage - these chips are built for something like 3-10V peak-to-peak signals.


----------



## Wood

Yes I think the transformer is for isolation from the pc. They are also used for attenuation, but perhaps because I have short wire direct to dac, and perhaps are lucky with ground loops etc, it works. 

 Sound wise it is the character tone, as without the Musiland, but bigger everything, perhaps because the Musiland is extracting more micro details, for positioning etc and in fact now with transformer bypass even more musical.

 But strangley, even if its not supposed to work.....it does!


----------



## Wood

Oh yes my receiver is a DIR-9001


----------



## Ultratone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, whenever you interrupt the power (like swapping cables), the driver will loose its connection to the device. I guess that's normal behaviour._

 

Yes, loosing connection, true. But, what's happens here is a pc lockup.

 I've pulled mouse, keyboard and monitor outputs without lockups. 
 With USB cables pulling & plugging as a rule should not cause problems, 
 these devices by their nature are plug & play or that's my understanding anyway. Never had crashes p&p'ing thumb drives, cameras, usb printers.

 What I see might be the problem now is Foobar. While playing a web radio streaming source via Entercom/Streamworld through their players &WDM via the Monitor 01 USD, I can unplug without a PC crash. A connection to the web site must be re-establish tho. I will download cPlay and see if it is better behaved than Floobar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Wood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ultratone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've pulled mouse, keyboard and monitor outputs without disruptions. 
 With USB cables pulling & plugging as a rule should not cause problems, 
 these devices by their nature are plug & play or that's my understanding anyway. Never had crashes p&p'ing thumb drives, cameras, usb printers.

 What I see might be the problem now is Foobar. While playing a web radio streaming source via Entercom/Streamworld through their players &WDM via the Monitor 01 USD, I can unplug without a PC crash. A connection to the web site must be re-establish tho. I will download cPlay and see if it is better behaved that Floobar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

Have you tried a different USB port, sometimes it can help. Be a shame to give up Foobar...


----------



## Ultratone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried a different USB port, sometimes it can help. Be a shame to give up Foobar..._

 

Yes. 

 Investigating differrence in ground potentials.


----------



## Wood

If you suspect foobar, perhaps a full reinstall might be worth investigating.


----------



## Ultratone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you suspect foobar, perhaps a full reinstall might be worth investigating._

 

Will try. Probably not tonight tho.


----------



## mmerrill99

BTW, I believe this is the SPDIF output stage schematic:


----------



## chinesekiwi

As the drivers for the 01 USD are the same as the 02 US (correct me if I'm wrong), what is the process I have to do to get the latest drivers, that reportedly significantly improves 44.1 kHz playback?

 Thanks.


----------



## lgo51

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, I believe this is the SPDIF output stage schematic:_

 

Assuming: C5 is very low Z at S/PDIF frequencies, and paralleled U5 ouputs are very low Z source, and that T1 is 1:1

 Then: effective Z (ac) s/b R2||R4 or ~89R ...which is not 75R 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Juggling R2, R4 could correct this, and maybe fix the output level issue too. Can someone tell me what was measured vs. what it should be (output level that is)?

 Cheers


----------



## lgo51

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lgo51* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Juggling R2, R4 could correct this, and maybe fix the output level issue too. Can someone tell me what was measured vs. what it should be (output level that is)?_

 

For example: with R2=330R and R4=100R, then Zout=76R and Vout is 20% up

 Cheers


----------



## Wood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_As the drivers for the 01 USD are the same as the 02 US (correct me if I'm wrong), what is the process I have to do to get the latest drivers, that reportedly significantly improves 44.1 kHz playback?

 Thanks._

 

Hi, you will find links to the latest drivers earlier on in this thread, with a complete explanation how to install them


----------



## sachu

are win XP64 bit drivers available for the musiland?


----------



## gornir

A new driver is out (1.0.7.0) 

http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.7.0.zip


----------



## lordearl

well! that was an easy install, let's see what has changed!
 thanks gornir - that would have to be the best first head-fi post ever!


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lgo51* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For example: with R2=330R and R4=100R, then Zout=76R and Vout is 20% up

 Cheers_

 

Thanks Igo! I too would be interested in measured voltages at the SPDIF output.
 Yes Gornir - thanks for heads-up on the new driver - any info on the revision changes (I'm fed-up trying to read the Musiland forum in translation). Any report Lordearl?


----------



## lgo51

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gornir* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A new driver is out (1.0.7.0) 

http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.7.0.zip_

 

Anyone else having troubles w/ ASIO under 1.0.7.0 ?


----------



## Ultratone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lgo51* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone else having troubles w/ ASIO under 1.0.7.0 ?_

 

Yes,
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 seems my Foobar will not function now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Wow, just tried again and Foobar recognizes the Monitor01USD?
 All I did was eat diner and come back & it worked? And no, 
 the PC was up all that time, no reboot involved???


----------



## hawkhead

In Foobar I had to go into Playback - Output and select the 01 USD again


----------



## denydog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lgo51* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone else having troubles w/ ASIO under 1.0.7.0 ?_

 

using foobar, I went back to 1.0.5 until I can figure it out.


----------



## lgo51

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denydog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_using foobar, I went back to 1.0.5 until I can figure it out._

 

Ah... so there's the trouble... no little sticker that said "OC OK"


----------



## Uri Cohen

Not working on the 02 US the new driver. Going back to 1.0.5 until they can get their act together.


----------



## Uri Cohen

Oh yeah anyone has a download link for 1.0.5.2? I lost my setup file.


----------



## Uri Cohen

It's a foobar issue, ASIO works on Winamp with the ASIO plug-in. On foobar ASIO setting the test single works for some reason.

 Edit: What? Foobar works now in ASIO with the latest drivers. What the hell is going on damn it!?


----------



## momomo6789

just remove the old asio in output then add it back and it works fine.


----------



## denydog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *momomo6789* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_just remove the old asio in output then add it back and it works fine._

 

Yes, that was it.

 Not only did I have to uninstall the old driver from my PC, I had to remove the old driver listed under foobar-> preferences-> asio virtual devices. Then add the new driver back to asio vitual devices after it had been installed on the PC.

 Funny, I don't recall doing that during the last driver update, but who knows?


----------



## Ultratone

Question, should I copy Musiland ASIO driver {MlCyMonASIO.dll} to the Foobar 'components' folder?


----------



## coolfungadget

Some resources for Musiland Monitor series
Index of /musiland


----------



## Wood

To install on Vista, I had to run it, restart the computer and run it again.

 Sound? I think there is a change, perhaps more detailed and transparant, dynamic. Hard to tell without A/Bing.


----------



## gattari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To install on Vista, I had to run it, restart the computer and run it again.

 Sound? I think there is a change, perhaps more detailed and transparant, dynamic. Hard to tell without A/Bing._

 

I think there is a change in sound
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I prefer sounds with the drv 1.0.5.0 Ciao


----------



## lgo51

I've noticed that when the Mon01USD is in 44.1 or 88.2 SR modes, the 2nd PLL LED on my DAC is off - no lock. However, in 48 and 96 kHz modes, it locks-in right away. This generally means that the DAC is unhappy with the master clock (freq, error, or jitter). I wonder if their software generated clock is not so dandy.


----------



## denydog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lgo51* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This generally means that the DAC is unhappy with the master clock (freq, error, or jitter). I wonder if their software generated clock is not so dandy._

 

Frequency error.

 This has been discussed earlier in this thread, and more technically on the DIY Forum. I'm still waiting for the correction solution that was mentioned once on this thread.

 BTW- I think I saw mentioned on the Musiland forum something about the latest driver correcting a "sleep" problem. I'll say that I did have an issue with the Musiland not working after bringing the PC out of standby. I'd have to remove and reinsert the usb cable to get it functioning again.

 With the latest driver, it seems to operate correctly after waking from sleep mode.


----------



## Mike Portnoy

I have musiland usd01, and I love it. Driver 1.0.7 fine on Win XP Pro + Foobar latest version/standard asio plugin.

 The Dac is NG94. But, I ordered the Audio-GD Dac 19MK3. BNC-BNC digital connection is my goal.

 From Brazil to you,

 Fernando.

 *Excuse the bad english, hehehehe.


----------



## Knutaa

Hi,
 I have just received th Monitor 01 US running firmware v. 1.2.5. It is only the line out connections working, not the headphone jack. I'm running Windows 7 and the the properties for the Musiland driver states”No jack information available”.
 How can I get the jack output working? Does the firmware 1.2.5 not support this - do I have to upgrade?
 Please help me - I'm new to this.
 Thanks!
 Knut


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Knutaa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,
 I have just received th Monitor 01 US running firmware v. 1.2.5. It is only the line out connections working, not the headphone jack. I'm running Windows 7 and the the properties for the Musiland driver states”No jack information available”.
 How can I get the jack output working? Does the firmware 1.2.5 not support this - do I have to upgrade?
 Please help me - I'm new to this.
 Thanks!
 Knut_

 

Have you gone into the Musiland control panel & clicked on the HP button - you should hear the click of the relay inside the 01US box which means you headphone jack now has the signal.

 The later drivers are purported to be better sounding than 1.2.5 - I don't know, never ran it with that version!


----------



## Knutaa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you gone into the Musiland control panel & clicked on the HP button - you should hear the click of the relay inside the 01US box which means you headphone jack now has the signal.

 The later drivers are purported to be better sounding than 1.2.5 - I don't know, never ran it with that version!_

 

Thank you for the advice, jkeny!

 I'm new to this, could you please tell me how I start th Musiland control panel?
 Thanks again!
 Knut


----------



## mmerrill99

Just click on the Musiland icon which appears on your status bar when you plug in the 01US - it will bring you to the Musiland control panel where you can choose Line/HP, vol, analog/digital outs, etc


----------



## Knutaa

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just click on the Musiland icon which appears on your status bar when you plug in the 01US - it will bring you to the Musiland control panel where you can choose Line/HP, vol, analog/digital outs, etc_

 

Thank you again - tried it and now everything works!!
 Thanks! Now I will try to upgrade to 1.7.0 is that release ok?
 Knut


----------



## Clubnewmen

What the difference between:
 SPDIF Interface (MUSILAND Monitor 01 USD)
 Speakers (MUSILAND Mnitor 01 USD)
 in output devices Foobar2000 ?


----------



## JulioCat2

Clubnewmen, I second that to.


----------



## David.M

i just bought these recently

 I just wanna make sure if these will drive a beyerdynamic dt880 well?

 and any differences between this and the Monitor 02 US??


----------



## lordearl

monitor 01 usd?
 will sound OK with DT880, but IMHO to get the best results you'll need AKG K701

 ; )


----------



## Mikeb

I have musiland 02US and I have DT880 headphones, although the 02US will drive the DT880's I personally don't think it is a good match, I find my more efficient Audio Technica ATH AD1000 a better match, I think the 02US suits a higher efficient headphone better, regarding the 01US I believe this has a lower output headphone amp than the 02US so I would have some concerns as to a good match, I personally would use a more efficient headphone or budget for a seperate headphone amp, I think if you want the best sound whether you use a 01US or 02US both will sound better with a proper headphone amp.


----------



## lordearl

01 does not have a headphone output....(in my earlier post I was assuming Dave was referring to how it might sound in conjunction with a headphone amp)


----------



## Mikeb

I was assuming the musiland 01US which has an headphone output, but the 01USD doesn't (D standing for digital only I assume), very similar names bit confusing.


----------



## lordearl

hhaha yeah ultra confusing - BTW can't speak for the headphone output, but the Musiland 01 US does in fact sound pretty good on my Beyers, and that's after testing it on about 3 headphone amps....


----------



## mmerrill99

I have done some more mods on my unit - completely turning off all the output stage & sending I2S to a 2 channel Sabre Vout DAC - excellent sound - best I've heard coming out of this unit so far. Thread here Musiland 01US USB DAC I2S into Sabre - diyAudio


----------



## Wood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have done some more mods on my unit - completely turning off all the output stage & sending I2S to a 2 channel Sabre Vout DAC - excellent sound - best I've heard coming out of this unit so far. Thread here Musiland 01US USB DAC I2S into Sabre - diyAudio_

 

Excellent work!!!


----------



## Wood

Jkeny, the replacement crystal, does it run ok direct from the board power?

 Also appreciate it if you point me in the direction obtained it from.

 Tah!


----------



## glt

I had a brief discussion with jkeny regarding the replacement of the crystal with a clock, but we did not conclude anything. 

 But here is my take:

 The cypress chip has an internal clock and uses an external crystal as reference. You can replace the crystal with a clock but is that better or worse?. The cypress chip doesn't know it and the clock is still generated internally. 

 The external clock still uses a built in crystal

 crystal specification don't vary much. Most are spec'ed at 50 ppm. The data sheet requires a 100 ppm crystal. The best crystals are spec'ed at 10 ppm but may not be available for the specified load capacitance.

 So my take is (in order of priority): use clean digital power so the internal clock can perform better, replace crystal with a crystal of better spec.

 Other opinions?


----------



## mmerrill99

Yes I would like to experiment with crystals as glt brought up a very good point but I don't know a source for low jitter crystals - anybody help? Using an external USB supply is gives some clean power to the Cypress chip although it has to go through a 3.3V regulator first. I did try bypassing this regulator with a direct 3.3V but noticed no improvement. Now this was a while ago & the system may not have been as refined as it is now!

 I definitely hear benefits to the sound with the low jitter clock in place that I put in but this may be largely due to the better power supply feeding it. I'm running it off an external 3.3V battery - I might just try it off the 3.3V regulator & see if there is any difference. It's a Crystek clock from Mouser C3391-24.000 Crystek Crystals Oscillators


----------



## Lil' Knight

Just pulled the trigger on the 01 USD. Can't wait to try it with my Buffalo32s.

 Anyone knows how long would it take to ship to the States?


----------



## Ultratone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just pulled the trigger on the 01 USD. Can't wait to try it with my Buffalo32s.

 Anyone knows how long would it take to ship to the States?_

 

Ordered mine on a Sunday and got it on Thursday, ordered from coolfungadget on EPay. That's to Western New York.


----------



## Wood

Here is an easy and cheap way to provide external power without modifying a usb cable.

 I bought a very cheap powered usb hub this type, 

USB 2.0 4 Port Powered Hub on eBay (end time 08-Dec-09 16:38:31 GMT)


 disconnected its power input from its usb cable so it was dependent only on its smps supply, and then replaced the cap with a quality Panasonic fm. This particular hub has 2 empty cap spaces on its pcb, so I added 2 more caps there. Finally removed the annoying red led, no need to waste power for that! 

 Compared to the current regulated psu, I was previously using I could tell no difference after extensive listening.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ultratone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordered mine on a Sunday and got it on Thursday, ordered from coolfungadget on EPay. That's to Western New York._

 

Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Hopefully I'll receive it soon.


----------



## Wood

glt, jkeny, thank you both for your input on the crystal mod. I decided to keep out of the debate for a while because I replace 17 caps throughout my system including 6 Teflon’s in the audio path, so you can imagine the mud. Anyway coming out of it now so some refection.

 Apart from the modified usb hub I tried recently, I think the best sound I get out of this Musiland is via the Toslink, not my first choice, but it avoids the questionable pulse transformer on the spidf and bnc. After close listening this is the preferred output despite the fact I am only using fibre and not glass connector. This strongly suggests the pulse transformers need an upgrade.

 The direct connection I was using before, bypassing the pulse transformers, and using a short wire directly to my dac pcb, does produce slightly more noise than the toslink connection. I am sure that any improvement would require at least a glass toslink, and better still a high quality pulse transformer on the Musiland board (and dac).

 As for the crystal mod, I can see in theory it should not improve matters much, as it’s only used as a reference point for the Cypress chip. If , jkeny, could determine whether the improvement came from his independent psu or the new crystal, or indeed both, it would be interesting to see if theory crashes once again.

 As an aside, the latest driver 1.7.0, gave me very bad glare. I compared with early drivers and although the glare was reduced with early ones I got more noise instead.... dilemma. Then I wrapped plasticine around the caps in my speakers to dampen them... no more glare. You guys figure that one out! The new driver sounds great now.


----------



## glt

Wood,

 Do you mean speaker crossover caps? That's interesting.

 The crystal mod would require more research I feel. First we'll have to determine the correct CL specification (I think it is 12 pF). The typical 12pF, 24 MHz can crystal is typically 50 ppm and the best you can get are 10 ppm. Then there is quartz vs ceramic crystals, and in theory, the quartz are supposed to be "better" than ceramic. Then there are companies that manufacture "low phase noise crystals" but those are not available through the normal channels.

 So I do agree to leave the crystal alone until more research is done.


----------



## lordearl

Wood - the power mod sounds easy enough for us DIY morons out there, do you have some pics?


----------



## Wood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wood,

 Do you mean speaker crossover caps? That's interesting.

 ._

 

Yes indeed, the plasticine prevents the caps vibrating, and interfering with their natural oscillation as they charge and discharge to the music frequency.

 But why was this not a problem before I used the latest driver? Anybody?


----------



## Wood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *lordearl* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wood - the power mod sounds easy enough for us DIY morons out there, do you have some pics?_

 

Will do lordearl, once I pull out the finger.


----------



## Wood

Powered Usb hub mod


----------



## Wood

Used panasonic fm 16v 47uf


----------



## Wood

The order for the mod, 

 first lift power input from the attached usb cord, you can see which is the power one from the bottom of the board, it goes to the positive rail.

 Second, Led should be off now when plugged into usb, but come on only when the SMPS is plugged into the hub. Congrats, youve ridden yourself of the dirty pc power input.

 Third, replace caps, this cleans and provides decent energy reserve to the power supply, check led status again should be on.

 Fourth, lift led leg, this lets all the power be used for the Musiland, and away you go.

 Can be used for any USB powered device, so useful first project, not much cost if it gets screwed up.


----------



## lordearl

yes - looks like it is worth a shot!

 Thanks for the added detail Wood


----------



## Wood

What I didn't mention is that I tried a 1000uf cap as well when I was modding this powered USB, but found that the 3 47uf had the same effect.

 I might try in the future using a higher current SMPS (the stock one that comes with the hub is 2A) or batteries. But I suspect because I couldn’t tell the difference between the Current modded version of the USB hub, and my direct supply from current regulated DC30-W dac PSU, that it might not do much.

 Another option is to direct wire on the bottom of the USB hub, the power input to the USB out that you are using, thus bypassing the copper track on the board.


----------



## mmerrill99

Yep, Wood, that's the way I do it too, through an external USB board that came out of a defunct USB device. 
 I will try powering the clock from the on-board 3.3V today, if I get a chance - as there's a Ireland Vs South Africa rugby match on today & some drinks will be taken 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now my on-board 3.3V only powers the Cypress & Xilinx chips & provides the input for the 1.2V regulator that also powers the Xilinx chip. I haven't done careful listening but as far as I can tell, it now makes no difference if I power it directly from USB or from external USB power. 

 These on-board AMS117 regulators are noisy so using a cleaner PS should improve matters but maybe not when it's just powering the above digital chips? I haven't looked at the Toslink on my board but I think it's powered from the dc-dc switching circuit that the 3063 chip is at the centre of (thanks to glt for identifying this). This will be the next area I look at when all my other experiments are finished and again the PS would be the first & maybe only improvement possible.


----------



## K&K Audio

I just got a 01 US and can't get any of the drivers available as links here or the 1.0.5 on the supplied disc to produce a positive result after installation on my Dell NetBook running XP Home. I've tried palying using Foobar or MicroSoft MediaPlayer 10. Nada. The Monitor is shown in the applications list, but doesn't do anything when an attempt to open it is made. Help!?


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *K&K Audio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a 01 US and can't get any of the drivers available as links here or the 1.0.5 on the supplied disc to produce a positive result after installation on my Dell NetBook running XP Home. I've tried palying using Foobar or MicroSoft MediaPlayer 10. Nada. The Monitor is shown in the applications list, but doesn't do anything when an attempt to open it is made. Help!?_

 

You need to set the output in Foobar preferences to Musiland ASIO - have you done this? Don't know about MS Media Player.


----------



## K&K Audio

Thanks, but I would if I could find a place to do so in the preference menu. No such place is obvious...

 Kevin


----------



## lordearl

preferences - playback - output device, then you can choose the musiland ; )


----------



## K&K Audio

It turned out that I had a USB cable issue, so once that was replaced, all was well. Dohhh! Thanks for your help!

 Kevin


----------



## Wood

jkenny, what replacement coupling caps values did you settle for? I'm using 10uf, but I'm going to try 47uf, because I think I'm losing out on the bass and the high end is a little to bright.

 For the dac ouptut on your Musiland 02 have you tried film caps? I get good results with my Valab using film caps.


----------



## mmerrill99

Wood, I mostly used Oscons that I have a bunch of - not high values - I think 22uF from memory. I used these on everything that is digital i.e all except the PCM1793 DAC analogue stage. But I've since gopne to I2S so don't use the PCM DAC now, I'm using I2S to a Sabre 2 channel Vout DAC (ES9022) with great results through a transfiormer.

 I'm about to try some high value film caps instead of the transformer - the only ones I have are motor start caps so we'll see how they sound. One issue I have to adress with the Tripath Ta2020 amp (which is what I'm using at the moment) is the turn on thump when using caps - there is a nulling circuit to prevent this DC on the outputs which is the cause of the thump.


----------



## Wood

On my tripath i use a resistor switch circuit, works well if I remember to wait 5 secs. would be interested in your automatic circuit design though (my memory tends to slip, then thump!).


----------



## Lil' Knight

Ok, so I just received my 01 USD. Plugged it in my laptop and DAC via RCA-RCA digital cable, installed the driver and Windows recognized it. Opened foobar2k, chose WASAPI : SPDIF Interface (musiland 01 USD), played a song and got this error message: 
  Quote:


 Unrecoverable playback error: Endpoint creation failed (0x8889000F) 
 

Any idea how to fix this?


----------



## Wood

do you have the foobar wasapi driver in the foobar 'components' folder ?


----------



## Lil' Knight

Of course I do. Been using with my Buffalo32s for a long time. Tried KS and DS also but the same problem happened.


----------



## Wood

Sorry, Just trying to help Lil' Knight.

 I guess then you've tried all the obvious things like restart the computer.

 If you rerun the Musiland driver software it will give you an option to 'repair' this helped me once.


----------



## Wood

Try using the musiland wasipi usb option in foobar if its there


----------



## Lil' Knight

Thanks, Wood. I'm trying to figure out the stuffs. The firmware is kinda messed up.


----------



## Lil' Knight

It works now. Sounds pretty good. Now I have to send the license.dat file to get the updated firmware.

 @edit: Just wonder if I have to change any setting in foobar if I play some 24/96 music? My 16/44 play without any problem but the 24/96 can't.


----------



## Wood

Lil' Knight, just in case, check your spam folder tomorrow morning, thats were my email system sent the musiland email with my license.dat file.


----------



## Lil' Knight

Surely I'll pay attention to it. The old driver is working great now though.


----------



## glt

jkenny, can you tell if the I2S output in the US-01 is at native sample rate or upsampled? I've discovered that the I2S on the MINI is at 88.1 or 96K. Too bad...


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_jkenny, can you tell if the I2S output in the US-01 is at native sample rate or upsampled? I've discovered that the I2S on the MINI is at 88.1 or 96K. Too bad..._

 

Oh, oh, that's worrying, as I expect it will be the same in the 01US also - same firmware I believe. How did you ascertain that? I have a 100MHz scope but would need some directions to use it - is it just a matter of putting the hot probe on the clock line & the cold probe on ground & reading the clock speed?

 So when playing music in the 44.1KHz speed family it re-samples to 88.1KHz & for the 48KHz family it re-samples to 96KHz?


----------



## glt

I'm able to control the internal upsampling of the WM8741. For 44.1/48 input sampling rate, I can choose beteen no upsample, low and maximum internal umsampling. For 88.2/96 I can only choose no and low internal upsampling.

 When using the US-01 through toslink, 44.1 material, I'm able to select max upsampling. When using the MINI through the I2S tap, I can only select no upsampling and low upsampling

 Therefore the signal is either 88.2 or 96. 

 Maybe it is synchronous upsampling as everything is based off a single clock?

 But I found that in the Wolfson DAC, the upsampling is tied to the digital filters and they work together, so better let the DAC do the upsampling.

 In any case, it sounds really good...

 For measuring with a scope, I'll have to read up on i2s specs...


----------



## krusty09

Hey Guy's

 Maybe someone can help me. I'm running vista 64 bit and i have installed the 01 and i have what i think sounds like a sync issue with the 01. When i play anything it sounds like NEXTEL PHONE is on next to it i get like pops and hash like its locking and un locking. I am running Ver 1.0.7.0 ICU1.6 Apu 1.14 Driver 1.0.7.0 asio 1.0.1.4 cpl 1.0.4.8 mode usb 2.0 high speed.

 When i first got it i had different driver and it seemed to be ok but when i updated to this it started to do this.

 Any help would be cool.


----------



## glt

Try de-installing and re-installing an earlier version. Driver 1.0.5 seem solid. You can find all the drivers earlier in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6166590-post630.html


----------



## Wood

Anybody got opinions of the sound of the different drivers, their favourite for instance, or least favourite, do you think the SQ of the driver releases is getting better, or are they getting worse.?

 Like to hear what you think!


----------



## rhythmdevils

is there support for mac now?


----------



## wackyterbacky

I received a delivery failure when trying to activate. I have now resent from two different accounts so it may yet work.

 Yes I ran MlCyMonUser.exe. Yes I attached the license.dat file. Yes I included the Model and Serial Number of the device.

 Has anyone encountered this?

 Details.txt says:

 Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net

 Final-Recipient: rfc822;activate@musiland.com.cn
 Action: failed
 Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
 Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.4.7 - Delivery expired (message too old) 'timeout' (delivery attempts: 0)


----------



## glt

musiland.com.cn domain seems to be down...


----------



## mmerrill99

glt,
 I did the scope measurements & took some pics - because of the restrictions on attachment sizes on this forum I'm posting them here (sorry about this): Musiland 01US USB DAC I2S into Sabre - Page 3 - diyAudio


----------



## Lil' Knight

Sent them 2 emails but still haven't received the license key.


----------



## glt

Anyone using iTunes with Vista32 and Quicktime Audio output set at 192KHz?
 (Musiland driver 1.0.7)

 Playback intermittently slows down (with a lot of noise). 

 Same setting in XP works fine


----------



## Lil' Knight

Just got the license file and installed the 1.0.7.0 driver.

 Not sure if there's any improvement in SQ but the treble somehow becomes more sparkling.


----------



## Wood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lil' Knight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got the license file and installed the 1.0.7.0 driver.

 Not sure if there's any improvement in SQ but the treble somehow becomes more sparkling._

 

I noticed the same, in fact it borders on the bright for me.


----------



## Wood

Anybody seen this,

USB 6 Channel 5.1 External Audio Sound Card TAUS45 on eBay (end time 06-Dec-09 20:27:46 GMT)

 it claims

 'Isochronous transfer uses adaptive and asynchronous synchronization'


----------



## Kpalsm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody seen this,

USB 6 Channel 5.1 External Audio Sound Card TAUS45 on eBay (end time 06-Dec-09 20:27:46 GMT)

 it claims

 'Isochronous transfer uses adaptive and asynchronous synchronization'_

 

Is that an optical input and output I see? Suddenly very intrigued. Someone buy one and try it out! I'd do it but I have no money atm.


----------



## adelias

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rhythmdevils* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is there support for mac now?_

 

For Mac you may want to consider the XMOS instead.
https://www.xmos.com/products/develo...kits/usbaudio2


----------



## Wood

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adelias* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For Mac you may want to consider the XMOS instead.
https://www.xmos.com/products/develo...kits/usbaudio2_

 

Now that looks interesting.

 I guess by this time next year we will be drowning in async devices


----------



## sachu

guess i'll ask again...is the BNC ouput native 75R or does one need to mod it in order to get it to 75R.

 If so , what kind of mods?


----------



## thebathingape

I ordered a 01-USD today, so I am eager to see what difference it can make. 

 I got a bit worried when i saw the posts about the poorer coax output (saw it after i ordered). I was initially going to use coax but is optical better then?


----------



## sachu

ordered my 01-USD as well..have some 75 1206 SMD resistors oon the way as well so I can change the BNC out to true 75 ohm


----------



## David.M

**noob ques alert** 

 before i start finding random people and sending them pms, I hope people will answer my post in this thread.



 - I'm using Monitor 01 US version. In the equalizer, i have WDM highlighted and used instead of ASIO. which one is better, do i need to switch, if so, how?

 - I'm using Windows Media Player, how can i sample high quality 24/192 files. 
 In the Current SR: equalizer, it highlights 192 with blue circle over it. Do i need to change that? will it affect my sound quality?


 -last ques: when i get my little dot mark 3 amp, how do i use this thing as DAC only? same method as right now but don't use the built in 3.5mm jack, right?


----------



## Kpalsm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *David.M* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_before i start finding random people and sending them pms, I hope people will answer my post in this thread._

 

Haha don't feel too bad about that, I happily answered and helped as much as I possibly could and I'm sure anyone else in this thread would have as well, and would have answered every question you had from memory. You just happened to pick the one name that had little knowledge of the Monitor series 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 BTW: You didn't say anything about ASIO in your PM to me, I do know a fair bit about that. Select that if you can figure out how to configure it, and if not, I'll try to help you out as much as I can. Here is the link to a thread that can help you configure ASIO, scroll down past the EAC and Foobar2000 parts, ASIO is the third part (don't know how Musiland's ASIO driver looks, this page describes how to use ASIO4ALL, also he uses Foobar2000 not Windows Media Player so you will need to interpret it for your needs a bit). I'm going to put the link to this back in my signature...I just took it out yesterday, and now someone could have used it! Good timing eh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you can't figure out ASIO from that thread PM me again.


----------



## Wood

Well I finally put in my 5 270uF 16V Sanyo SP Oscon to my 01 usd. Only 12hrs burn in on them but already huge differences. Sounds more powerful, deeper bass, richer midrange and more air all round, like a whole system upgrade. Not bad for £5.


----------



## Lam3r_co.

Hi.
 I'm considering buying this little device, so I've read this thread to page 20, but I haven't found what's the difference between the old and the new model except usb2 support (I'd like to buy a used device). Another thing - does it really works with win7 x64? Because I asked the seller on ebay and he replied it does not. (any chances for linux?)
 Forgot to mention, I'd like to plug it in Dispre2 V4 via the stereo RCA.
 Thanks


----------



## momomo6789

works fine with win 7 ult x64


----------



## doctorcilantro

Quote:


 so I can change the BNC out to true 75 ohm 
 

The unit doesn't have a 75 ohm BNC? 50?


----------



## doctorcilantro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sachu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_guess i'll ask again...is the BNC ouput native 75R or does one need to mod it in order to get it to 75R.

 If so , what kind of mods?_

 

Would like to know too.


----------



## BT5000

where can I buy it? What is the best price?


----------



## lordearl

it's about the same $$ everywhere


----------



## doctorcilantro

I emailed them and they gave me the American distributor where it was $150. I pikced up a Musliand for $60 from a fellow Head-Fi member.


----------



## BT5000

compare to m2tech, musiland and firewire from mac which one is the best?


----------



## lordearl

depends on the rest of your gear...
 what is your system BT500?


----------



## BT5000

I use apogee mini dac.


----------



## chinesekiwi

A quick question but important:

 Can the Musiland process EAX via optical or digital out?
 Anyone tried this, I'm pretty sure it can but I'm not 100% sure.


----------



## Mangemongen

I'm seriously looking to buy one of these to update from my Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Guess there will be a slight improvement in SQ, no? It does support 24/96 already (the SB), but it just can't be that good for music?

 I'm planning on using it as a sound card for my computer, to listen to music. Through my, as of now, HD555's. Yeah, I know they kinda suck too.

 Edit: Maybe I should just by a new internal sound card... And close down Google Chrome for tonight 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And yeah, I just KS with 24bit output in fb2k.


----------



## seaice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Lam3r_co.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi.... does it really works with win7 x64? Because I asked the seller on ebay and he replied it does not. (any chances for linux?)_

 

I have just installed the last driver 1.0.7.0 on Win7 Pro (64-bit) and everything seems to be OK. All programs work correctly (e.g. wasapi in foobar2000 works without any problem). But, as was mentined before, in most (all? ) cases it is necessary to update the firmware of the card to be able to use the newest driver (probably from the driver version 1.0.5.0 - I am not absolutely sure now). The program for the firmware update works on 32-bit Windows only, but the driver itself works on both 32/64-bit Windows.


----------



## thebathingape

I received mine today, and installed the 1.0.7.0 driver without having to update firmware. A good thing I didn't have to go through that hassle.

 I am still trying a lot of settings but my first impression is that it definitely is taking me on to another level of sound from pc. I was using usb straight out of the Dacmagic before.

 Using win 7 x64, I haven't had any driver issues other than when changing windows default sample rate it only works through their control panel otherwise windows hangs. No big deal at all. They are synced.

 The control panel is simple and works with no issues so far and is with no fuss as I like it.

 I will post some comparisons after I get to know it


----------



## Snell

Ordered my Musiland USD01 yesterday. Looking forward to get it. After reading all 49 pages in this thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I found that this gadget was the thing for me. Not exactly headfi I´m interested in, but so that I can connect my laptop to my receiver with Optical input. 

 Was frustrated that I couldn´t get surround from my laptop to my home theater, but it looks like with the Musiland it´s possible...and with a great sound quality.

 Thanks for all the info in here - really helped me in my decision


----------



## seaice

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denydog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW- I think I saw mentioned on the Musiland forum something about the latest driver correcting a "sleep" problem. I'll say that I did have an issue with the Musiland not working after bringing the PC out of standby. I'd have to remove and reinsert the usb cable to get it functioning again.

 With the latest driver, it seems to operate correctly after waking from sleep mode._

 

You have good luck, because my Musiland 01 USD still do this with the latest drivers (1.0.7.0) on Win XP and Win 7. But it is the only problem with the card and I hope they will fix it soon.


----------



## wali

My Musiland, which i had bought recently and i was really happy with, stopped working today... : (

 The little light is off and even though the computer detects it as a USB drive, no sound is coming from it... I have asked for a replacement, but is there anyone else who had similar experience or are there any tips you guys can give me to get this working again?


----------



## Snell

Received my 01 USD today, downloaded the 1.0.7.0 driver, installed it, connected everything through optical to my surround receiver and BOOOM....what a sound!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tried a DVD from my laptop and DTS surround was awesome. Played an Armin Van Buuren cd and bass/treble was incredible.

 I can really recommend this device - at the price of $79 incl. shipping it´s a bargain!


----------



## thebathingape

New drivers 1.0.8.0 are on Index of /downloads/drivers

 Direct link http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.8.0.exe

 I just started using them on windows 7 64 bit with no problems yet.


----------



## Snell

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thebathingape* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New drivers 1.0.8.0 are on Index of /downloads/drivers

 Direct link http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.8.0.exe

 I just started using them on windows 7 64 bit with no problems yet._

 

Thanks for the heads-up


----------



## seaice

These 1.0.8.0 drivers are great! The last problem with waking up from the sleep mode in Windows has disappeared (at least on my Win 7 Pro 64-bit). Now everything works fine!


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Snell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Received my 01 USD today, downloaded the 1.0.7.0 driver, installed it, connected everything through optical to my surround receiver and BOOOM....what a sound!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tried a DVD from my laptop and DTS surround was awesome. Played an Armin Van Buuren cd and bass/treble was incredible.

 I can really recommend this device - at the price of $79 incl. shipping it´s a bargain!_

 

My price is $73.95...


----------



## thoppa

Hi,

 Does anyone know if it is possible to hack this to output an I2S signal ? I'd like to hook it up to a Gamma2 dac from AMB. 

 Apologies if this has already been asked - 49 pages is a bit much to read.....and are there any photos on this thread ? 

 EDIT : Found the answer. Thanks jkeny !

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/mu...0/index19.html


----------



## Ciu

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolfungadget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My price is $73.95...



_

 

Without the shipping charges !!!

 And when I asked about ...11/06/2009

_$15 to France. The sound card comes with v1.0.3. To use the new driver, please refer to the firmware update guide here: Index of /musiland_

 R.C.


----------



## thebathingape

Version 1.0.8.2 beta up on Index of /downloads/drivers/beta

 Seems like they are on a mission 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit:

 hmm new SR control mode options. Haven't tried it out yet.


----------



## mmerrill99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thebathingape* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Version 1.0.8.2 beta up on Index of /downloads/drivers/beta

 Seems like they are on a mission 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 edit:

 hmm new SR control mode options. Haven't tried it out yet.



_

 

What mission are they on do you reckon? I haven't looked in on their forum for a long time - got fed-up reading in translation & still being unsure about what was said 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What do they say about this fast speed/precision speed thing?


----------



## thebathingape

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What mission are they on do you reckon? I haven't looked in on their forum for a long time - got fed-up reading in translation & still being unsure about what was said 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 What do they say about this fast speed/precision speed thing?_

 

I have no idea. I just checked their site and there were new drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 Precision mode sounds great for now. Fast mode i have just tested a little but first impression is it doesn't sound as good as precision mode for me.

 Ahh didnt see that there was an own thread for this driver :
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/mu...ersion-468953/


----------



## jbbidet

Hello,

 I'm reading this thread since its birth, I have 2 01 USD and I'm very satisfied.
 My musiland is connected with an ANAGRAM DAC + TimeLock and the volume control is done by a OPC271 controlled by the PC with a BusPirate V3.
 I'm always looking for modifications which could improve the audio quality, and I'm reading a lot of topics in this thread about mods, but most of them let me confused.
 Ok for the replacement of the caps, but for the digital spdif output, too much advices and no real approved conclusion.
 I thought to use a Lundahl digital transformer like LL1572 or LL1574, what do you think about?

 PS : sorry for my approximative english (I'm french)


----------



## Danilo84

Hello. Is this card Bit-Perfect?? Will send after SPDIS DTS.wav (DTS CD) 5.1 Pass-Trought?? Regrads Daniel


----------



## ssabripo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thebathingape* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_New drivers 1.0.8.0 are on Index of /downloads/drivers

 Direct link http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.8.0.exe

 I just started using them on windows 7 64 bit with no problems yet.



_

 

Hi guys,

 I have a small idiotic question here: so are the drivers ready for install if I buy the unit from ebay, or do I have to get some special key/firmware code from china? I was told that we have to ‘activate’ emails into china, that New drivers cannot be installed until firmware is updated, and new Firmware cannot be updated until they give you a license file. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 can someone give me the cliffs on this, before I get stuck for a few weeks trying to get the latest firmware/driver working when I buy this thing?

 ps- running Windows7 Pro 64-bit


----------



## wwmhf

ssabripo, 

 Sadly, your concern was confirmed by my Monitor 01USD. I got it yesterday and found that I could use the 1.03 version driver but not any of the newer ones. For a newer driver, I get the "License invalid" warning in the control panel. I have sent the request for the license code but haven't received it yet. 

 According to the information I found on Musiland's discussion forum, the products made after Sept. of 2009 do not need activation. This seems to be confirmed by my Monitor 02US which works with all the drivers without activation at all. Hence, it might help to ask the seller to send you the product made after Sept. 2009 and I wish I have done that. 

 My Monitor 02US works well with Win7/64


----------



## Ciu

Hello !

 Prior to this release, I've installed 1.0.8.2(Beta release), not the same components levels ?
 1.0.8.2______________1.0.8.0
 ICU : *1.8*_____________1.6
 APU : *2.0*____________1.14
 Driver : *1.0.8.2*________1.0.8.0 
 ASIO : 1.0.1.4________1.0.1.4
 CPL : *1.0.5.0*_________1.0.4.8

 And no more "Precision Mode" ?
 Any comment ?

 R.C.


----------



## ssabripo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wwmhf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ssabripo, 

 Sadly, your concern was confirmed by my Monitor 01USD. I got it yesterday and found that I could use the 1.03 version driver but not any of the newer ones. For a newer driver, I get the "License invalid" warning in the control panel. I have sent the request for the license code but haven't received it yet. 

 According to the information I found on Musiland's discussion forum, the products made after Sept. of 2009 do not need activation. This seems to be confirmed by my Monitor 02US which works with all the drivers without activation at all. Hence, it might help to ask the seller to send you the product made after Sept. 2009 and I wish I have done that. 

 My Monitor 02US works well with Win7/64_

 

shucks! thanks for the feedback! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so where are you guys getting the newest yet best price "02" models from? all the ebay ones seem to be 01 and no real way of knowing build dates, and the 02's are double the price of the 01s.

 At that price, I'm thinking the M2Tech Hiface may be a better value:
M2Tech

 any info is appreciated.


----------



## glt

The "license" is an upgrade to the firmware. It is a trivial task if you have used and installed software in a computer. You just have to follow the instructions, and those have been posted here, I think.


----------



## ssabripo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The "license" is an upgrade to the firmware. It is a trivial task if you have used and installed software in a computer. You just have to follow the instructions, and those have been posted here, I think._

 

I have, but can't hack this one... perhaps someone can PM me the new valid key for the newest firmware, or link on how to bypass this. Much appreciated


----------



## glt

The firmware upgrade only works on 32 bit systems. So you can take your musiland to a computer running a 32 bit OS and upgrade there. 

 After you upgrade the firmware, then the driver work in any OS

 You cannot bypass this process
 The file you got in the mail is tied to the serial number in your musiland, so no other file will work.

 I copied this from the Musiland forum:
 IMPORTANT:
 ===
 1, Monitor 01 MINI do NOT require the firmware update to use the new driver(and/or all future driver updates), other products might need that, pay attention to step 4.
 2, protect your license and serial, since they can be used only once, if somebody used it, you will lose your privilege to use new drivers.
 3, follow the step-by-step guide to avoid unnecessary problems.
 4, once the firmware's been upgraded, it will suite all future driver updates, no need to upgrade the firmware again.
 5, if you do not upgrade the firmware, you can't use the new driver and/or all future driver updates, including the 'digital CD' driver(a special driver optimized specifically for 16bit/44.1khz).
 6, the firmware upgrade program only runs on 32 bit OS, while the driver is suitable for both 32/64 bit.

 STEP-BY-STEP:
 ===
 1, unplug your Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI from your computer.
 2, uninstall the old driver.
 3, download and install the new driver:
http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...on_1.0.5.0.zip
 4, reboot, plug Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI in, if the control panel shows 'Warning: License invalid', it needs the firmware upgrade, otherwise you can skip the following steps and enjoy it now.
 5, download the Monitor 01 US/USD/02US/MINI firmware upgrade program and extract it to a folder('MlCyMonAct' from now on):
http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads...MlCyMonAct.zip
 6, run 'MlCyMonUser.exe' in 'MlCyMonAct', it will create a file named 'License.dat'.
 7, send the 'License.data' to activate@musiland.com.cn as an attachment, also your product name and serial, double check your mail before sending, the three entry must present and match each other.
 8, we will reply your mail in business time using activate@musiland.com.cn, it will include a 'License.key' file as an attachment, save it to the 'MlCyMonAct' folder.
 9, run 'MlCyMonProg.exe' in 'MlCyMonAct', it will upgrade the firmware for you.
 10, reboot and have fun

 CHANGE LOG:
 ===
 1, driver kernel upgrade, sound quality improved, fixed the problem while changing sample rate in some player.
 2, digital output timing improved, fixed the problem causing Dolby Digital output not correctly working in some circumstances.
 3, ASIO kernel upgrade, better compatibility.
 4, better Windows 7 compatibility.
 5, sample rate control is completely compatible with Vista/Win7 now, fixed the problem sometimes the system sample rate is not correct in Vista/Win7.
 6, the driver is 256bit RSA encrypted to prevent fake/duplicates, ensure every customer got genuine products presented by MUSILAND.


 Hope this helps.


----------



## wwmhf

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The "license" is an upgrade to the firmware. It is a trivial task if you have used and installed software in a computer. You just have to follow the instructions, and those have been posted here, I think._

 

According to the instructions, the upgrading procedure itself does not seem to be complicated, but the waiting to obtain the license data really hurts my feeling about Musiland. 

 This is like that you have spent a lot of time to identify a big screen TV and made an effort to move it home and get it hooked up. Then turn on this nice looking TV and find the message: "License Invalid, Contact The Manufacture". By reading the fine print, you further find that it will take a few days to obtain the license. Do we want to buy this kind of TV? 

 The good thing is that Musiland realized this activation procedure is bad for the user of their products and has abandoned it. I just wish the sellers know the actual status of the products they are selling and pass the related information to the buyers.


----------



## wwmhf

glt: 

 Thank you very much for putting the detailed upgrading procedure here. It is useful to many people including myself. 

 I would like to point out that Steps 7 and 8 will probably take the longest time (days instead of minutes in other steps) to finish in the whole upgrading procedure.


----------



## ssabripo

glt, 
 thank you very much for the detailed email! that's exactly what I was looking for. So my understanding is, as per your post, that I need to first run the procedure from steps 1-9 in a 32bit System, then once the firmware upgrade is done, I can just plug it into my 64bit system and run with it?

 also, is there a way to force win7 to run the install in 32bit mode for the install upgrade, and then back the 64bit operation from thereafter?

 Musiland should have really thought this thru!


----------



## glt

Not sure if you can "force" win7-64.

 Regarding the need to send your serial number and wait for file, the story goes like this:


 - All products work with the drivers included in the CD.
 - Some products before driver 1.05 has the old firmaware
 - Around that time, Musiland figured that some people were copying their s/w and using it in hardware other than Musiland
 - Musiland decided to add some authentication code that will ensure musiland s/w would only work with musiland h/w
 - Older products required firmware upgrade, but the firmware was specific to the serial number 
 - Thus the e-mail process

 Sure there is a couple of days wait, some people longer, some people shorter. And sure Musiland can do this better, but after the old devices are sold, there will be no more of this. Besides, the old driver would still work while you wait for the new driver so not quite like your TV example . Besides where can you get USB 24/192K solution for 80 bucks?


----------



## ssabripo

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure if you can "force" win7-64.

 Regarding the need to send your serial number and wait for file, the story goes like this:


 - All products work with the drivers included in the CD.
 - Some products before driver 1.05 has the old firmaware
 - Around that time, Musiland figured that some people were copying their s/w and using it in hardware other than Musiland
 - Musiland decided to add some authentication code that will ensure musiland s/w would only work with musiland h/w
 - Older products required firmware upgrade, but the firmware was specific to the serial number 
 - Thus the e-mail process

 Sure there is a couple of days wait, some people longer, some people shorter. And sure Musiland can do this better, but after the old devices are sold, there will be no more of this. Besides, the old driver would still work while you wait for the new driver so not quite like your TV example . Besides where can you get USB 24/192K solution for 80 bucks?_

 

very true, although it leaves a sour taste in the mouth that you buy a couple of months old device, and it has this "old" feel to it, when the newer ones dont have that


----------



## FauDrei

Whatever the reasons for this firmware encryption nuisance, the least fortunate of us might also have other driver related problems...

 Namely, I'm "old" user who started with 1.0.3.2 drivers at the time and was really enthusiastic about the device (Monitor 01 USD).

 Then came the 1.0.5.0 and the firmware encryption. Went through the .dat mailing and encrypted .key upgrading procedure without problems. It took less than two days to receive the key from Musiland's support.

 Subsequent 1.0.5.2 and 1.0.6.0 were further driver improvements and I even participated in problem reporting and solution suggesting.

 Then it came 1.0.7.0. My 01 USD exhibited a strange problem: no matter what I tried, the APU driver module was not installing or loading properly (APU: 0.0 in Musiland's Control Panel) and there was no music at all. I had to fall back to older drivers. I've reported the problem and Musiland guys from their support forum said they will look into it. It was November 2009.

 I patiently waited for a new driver version which recently came out (January 22th 2010; 1.0.8.0). My problem was still there. I've reported it again, asking for help. Ten days went by without any confirmation or update from Musiland's support.

 I'm, kind of disappointed...


----------



## ssabripo

FauDrei,
 I noticed in your sig you had both the musiland and the M2Tech hiface...any comments/insights between the two you can give me? price aside, any issues between the m2tech and win7 64bit? how is their driver support, etc?

 we are talkin $40 in the grand scheme of things, so it may be worth the headache and price... also, smaller unit that plugs in like dongle so it appeals better to me.


----------



## momomo6789

m2tech now HAS DS ! in win 64 bit and i prefer is over musiland


----------



## Alexdad54

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ssabripo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_glt, 
 thank you very much for the detailed email! that's exactly what I was looking for. So my understanding is, as per your post, that I need to first run the procedure from steps 1-9 in a 32bit System, then once the firmware upgrade is done, I can just plug it into my 64bit system and run with it?

 also, is there a way to force win7 to run the install in 32bit mode for the install upgrade, and then back the 64bit operation from thereafter?

 Musiland should have really thought this thru! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I'm new around here but I just bought the Musiland based on this thread and have updated the driver twice now, first to 1.07 and now to 1.0.8.2 and both times this was done on an Acer Aspire 1410 netbook with Win 7. Seems to be working fine but having never run it on an XP machine I'm just assuming this. I have running via Foobar 1.0 in "precision" mode with WASAPI.


----------



## wwmhf

Just for fun, not for arguing with glt in any way, let me modify my statements a little to see how ridiculous Musiland's activation is for general users:

 This is like that you have spent a lot of time to identify a big screen TV and made an effort to move it home and get it hooked up. Then turn on this nice looking TV to play an exciting BlueRay movie but find following message on the screen: "License Invalid. Only standard DVD movies can be played. To play BlueRay HD movies, please contact the the manufacture for an updated license". By reading the fine print, you further find that it will take a few days to obtain the license. In this situation, I will be very very disappointed. 

 Again, it is good to see that Musiland has realized this was a blunder and has abandoned it. I am not happy just because I thought it has been several months since the Sept. of 2009 and the one I ordered two weeks ago should not have this issue anymore. I put my complains here just to hope all the new buyer get the products in new version.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure if you can "force" win7-64.

 Regarding the need to send your serial number and wait for file, the story goes like this:


 - All products work with the drivers included in the CD.
 - Some products before driver 1.05 has the old firmaware
 - Around that time, Musiland figured that some people were copying their s/w and using it in hardware other than Musiland
 - Musiland decided to add some authentication code that will ensure musiland s/w would only work with musiland h/w
 - Older products required firmware upgrade, but the firmware was specific to the serial number 
 - Thus the e-mail process

 Sure there is a couple of days wait, some people longer, some people shorter. And sure Musiland can do this better, but after the old devices are sold, there will be no more of this. Besides, the old driver would still work while you wait for the new driver so not quite like your TV example . Besides where can you get USB 24/192K solution for 80 bucks?_


----------



## doctorcilantro

Who can email to make sure I have the newest driver?

 I bought one 2nd-hand and found a version online.

 thanks!
 DC


----------



## FauDrei

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ssabripo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any issues between the m2tech and win7 64bit? how is their driver support, etc?_

 

hiFace did just kernel streaming on 7 x64. A couple of days ago I've received beta 1.03 driver which supposedly does also WASAPI and DS on 7 x64. Cannot confirm that yet - had no opportunity to swap my XP with 7 x64 disk this week. Reports from other people have been positive though, and I can add that 1.03 works very well on XP x32.

 M2Tech driver development is split between several Windows and Mac platforms (perhaps also linux in the future), so their drivers are developed/updated in cycles. Releases are not very frequent, but issues are prioritized and resolved continuously according to priority. I had less issues with hiFace drivers then with Musiland ones (as you probably know from few posts back).

 Personally I prefer Musiland's Monitor 01 USD "metal box" device format to hiFace's "dongle" format. I think is more versatile and robust, and I do not mind nor care for presence or absence of USB cable inbetween.

 That said, hiFace outperforms 01 USD in my setup - it goes little higher and lower than 01 USD, it is more clear and ambiance cues are better conveyed.


----------



## glt

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wwmhf* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just for fun, not for arguing with glt in any way, let me modify my statements a little to see how ridiculous Musiland's activation is for general users:

 ..._

 

 but still a stretch. It would be like DVD and DVD with a blacker black


----------



## wwmhf

glt, I think I should give up on you, but not on my crippled Monitor 01USD. I am still waiting for the license code and I am sure I will get it soon.


----------



## glt

This is the link I was trying to locate before:

Index of /musiland


----------



## DrDave

I reinstalled the older driver because it seems to sound better. The newer ones seemed to be digitally boosting the sound.


----------



## shrisha

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *DrDave* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I reinstalled the older driver because it seems to sound better. The newer ones seemed to be digitally boosting the sound._

 

Which among of the oldest is better then new one?


----------



## ssabripo

ok guys, need a confirmation ASAP!!

 will musiland's 01 USD play 192khz from within windows Media Player or Windows Media Center???!

 I'm confused on whether WMP/MCE uses WASAPI and if wether or not Musiland 01 uses it to interface out.

 I don't want to install yet another player like J river or play them via foobar...I just want to be able to play them via windows Media Center.

 what are my alternatives?


----------



## Alexdad54

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *shrisha* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which among of the oldest is better then new one?_

 

I'd love to know as well. I've only used 1.07 and 1.08.2 and I'm not too crazy about either . I would also agree that the latest one sounds more 'digital" but would the older versions still support Windows 7 64?


----------



## Wood

Alexdad54, In what way do you prefer the earlier version?

 I am concerned that these drivers all change the sq as well, all this device is supposed to do is deliver untainted bits to our dacs. Its hard for me to make a judgement myself at the moment as I am suffering from new cap burn in. One of these drivers must be closer to 'no artifical ingrediants' then the others but which one?


----------



## FauDrei

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ssabripo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_will musiland's 01 USD play 192khz from within windows Media Player or Windows Media Center???!_

 

It will. Monitor 01 USD does DS on XP, Vista and 7. It would not be "bit perfect" but it will play 24/192 if your preferred playing application can handle 24/192 media files.

 A crash course: If audio device supports Direct Sound (DS) on windows platform (XP, Win 7...) it will work as standard windows audio device and can be used with any application on that platform.


----------



## Alexdad54

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alexdad54, In what way do you prefer the earlier version?

 I am concerned that these drivers all change the sq as well, all this device is supposed to do is deliver untainted bits to our dacs. Its hard for me to make a judgement myself at the moment as I am suffering from new cap burn in. One of these drivers must be closer to 'no artifical ingrediants' then the others but which one?_

 

Its very subjective but I thought that the latest driver was a titch brighter than the previous one. To be honest I haven't done any serious A/B'ing so I will defer to those who know more about the technical side than I do.....


----------



## leeperry

.


----------



## feket663

Hello! I'd like a buy an USB/SPDIF converter for my non oversampling AD1865N dac (with CS8414 RECEIVER). I know this config not accept 24bit/192 khz just 18 bit/48 khz, but currently i'm not listening higher resolution music. Wich product recommend me? M2Tech, one of many Musiland product (which is the best?) or one of Teralink X or X2 (i read somwhere the Teralink X not much worse than M2tech, what about the X2?)?
 I think the AD1865N dac can't handle the I2S signal, and if possible i don't need spent much money.


----------



## chris1

Hi Folks,

 Bought a Musiland Monitor 01 USD from coolfungadget and I'm having trouble with instalation of the software. I'm getting a dos-like "Device not found!" message appearing when I run MlCyMonUser.exe. I have done everything according to the Update_Firmware.html file on the ebay site. Version 1.0.8.2 seems to have installed OK. It comes up with 'Warning: License invalid' in the title bar but at the next stage, running MlCyMonUser.exe I get the "Device not found!" message and no liscese.dat file is created. I have tried various USB ports restarting the computer, uninstaling and reinstaling and have had no luck. If anyone has any suggestions I would be most gratefull. I've searched the forums but not found anything relevant. I emailed coolfungadget thru ebay but haven't had a reply. Thanks in advance!

 Chris


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chris1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi Folks,

 Bought a Musiland Monitor 01 USD from coolfungadget and I'm having trouble with instalation of the software. I'm getting a dos-like "Device not found!" message appearing when I run MlCyMonUser.exe. I have done everything according to the Update_Firmware.html file on the ebay site. Version 1.0.8.2 seems to have installed OK. It comes up with 'Warning: License invalid' in the title bar but at the next stage, running MlCyMonUser.exe I get the "Device not found!" message and no liscese.dat file is created. I have tried various USB ports restarting the computer, uninstaling and reinstaling and have had no luck. If anyone has any suggestions I would be most gratefull. I've searched the forums but not found anything relevant. I emailed coolfungadget thru ebay but haven't had a reply. Thanks in advance!

 Chris_

 

Are you running the program on 32 or 64 bit Windows?

 Is the sound card well connected?


----------



## chris1

I am running 32 bit Vista. I have tried several USB cables and ports with no luck. Would it be possible to try installing on a different PC. I seem to remember reading in this forum somewhere that there might be issues with instalation on more than one computer due to the liscence being valid for one machine only tho I could be mistaken...Thanks for your help!


----------



## wwmhf

Older version drivers have to be used in order to update the license. Driver 1.08 definitely does not work for updating, use 1.05, 1.06 or something like those.


----------



## chris1

Nice one- that worked! Where it says "Download and install the new driver..." I assumed that meant 1.0.8. Thanks for your help!


----------



## mummy_ua

Seems new driver released 1.8.0.4: Index of /musiland


----------



## Kooka

I know it should already have been posted here, but could not find it in 30 pages... in that totally idiot chinese forum is impossible to register! It keeps on telling me that I have an uncorrecy secret answer, but I do not have a secret answer since it displays in ...chinese!
 Any help, please?


----------



## glt

The secret answer is provided in the same page. Just copy it and paste it in the secret answer field (that's how I remember I did it)


----------



## jasonwc

Wrong thread, sorry.


----------



## Kooka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The secret answer is provided in the same page. Just copy it and paste it in the secret answer field (that's how I remember I did it)_

 

No, it's not possible to copy/paste the text, if you try doing it the window disappears, not possible doing it.
 Any other suggestion/help tring to solve this totally idiot chinese forum issue, please..?


----------



## Kooka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kooka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, it's not possible to copy/paste the text, if you try doing it the window disappears, not possible doing it.
 Any other suggestion/help tring to solve this totally idiot chinese forum issue, please..? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No one? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ok, if nobody wants to help in this task, maybe someone can tell me: my USD 01 comes with 1.03 drivers/software, do you think these should be updated to a newer version or are they ok like this for best sonic performance?


----------



## denydog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kooka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... in that totally idiot chinese forum is impossible to register!_

 

Do you really think it's an idiot Chinese forum? Who's trying to use a Chinese forum when they don't speak Chinese anyway?

 I posted this in another thread a couple weeks ago if it helps. Coolfungadget may even be Chinese for all I know.


 "ebay seller/Head-fi member Coolfungadget created an account for Head-fi'ers back in September. Don't know if it's still active, I use my own.

 Username: headfi
 Password: headheadfifi 
 "


----------



## Kooka

Yes, definitely, I think that in a forum where there is an english language option and there is not a way for digiting a proper occidental alphabet password to login is an idiot thing.
 And, mainly, trhanks for the password!


----------



## Wood

Anyone tried this last driver? Can't tell any differnce sq wise, yet, but it did install without a hitch, I had hassle with the previous one with vista 32.


----------



## seaice

I have tried it too - but on 64-bit Win 7. Installation without a prob, I cant tell any SQ difference after a few hours of listening.


----------



## Kooka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wood* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can't tell any differnce sq wise._

 

You mean compared to 1.06 version or so, right?


----------



## batal

I'm going to buy Musiland Monitor 01 US and SH HD 555, is 01 US enough for HD555, i meen do i need AMP?


----------



## chris1

Does anyone know if there is any documentation (online or otherwise) in english explaining the functionality of the Musiland drivers? Just got my 01 USD up and running (ASIO with Media Monkey) but I'm not sure about what the "MMDI" menu does for example... Thanks in advance!


----------



## lordsegan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *batal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm going to buy Musiland Monitor 01 US and SH HD 555, is 01 US enough for HD555, i meen do i need AMP?_

 

The 01 US has an amp in it that is more than enough for the HD555. I use the 02 US with an HD600 and even that works great (although I am upgrading to balanced setup soon).


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chris1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone know if there is any documentation (online or otherwise) in english explaining the functionality of the Musiland drivers? Just got my 01 USD up and running (ASIO with Media Monkey) but I'm not sure about what the "MMDI" menu does for example... Thanks in advance!_

 

It's an interface developed by Musiland, used to interconnect Musiland products.


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denydog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you really think it's an idiot Chinese forum? Who's trying to use a Chinese forum when they don't speak Chinese anyway?

 I posted this in another thread a couple weeks ago if it helps. Coolfungadget may even be Chinese for all I know.


 "ebay seller/Head-fi member Coolfungadget created an account for Head-fi'ers back in September. Don't know if it's still active, I use my own.

 Username: headfi
 Password: headheadfifi 
 "_

 

I am Chinese but not idiot


----------



## chris1

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolfungadget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's an interface developed by Musiland, used to interconnect Musiland products._

 

Thanks for that. Does this mean that the two functions HF-BOX and HD-BOX from the MMDI menu are non-functional at the moment as I have no other Musiland products at present? Also the ASIO buffer is presently set at 10. Is this the best setting to have it at? My Media Monkey ASIO.dll is set at a buffer size of 7. Neither of these figures was set by me so I'm wondering if they are the optimum settings?

 Thanks again for your help!


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chris1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for that. Does this mean that the two functions HF-BOX and HD-BOX from the MMDI menu are non-functional at the moment as I have no other Musiland products at present? Also the ASIO buffer is presently set at 10. Is this the best setting to have it at? My Media Monkey ASIO.dll is set at a buffer size of 7. Neither of these figures was set by me so I'm wondering if they are the optimum settings?

 Thanks again for your help!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You are right about MMDI.

 The buffer size doesn't really matter.


----------



## chris1

Couple more questions for those in the know...

 I now have a choice between: "Speakers- Musiland Monitor 01 USD" and "SPDIF Interface- Musiland Monitor 01 USD" as my Playback device. What are the diferences between the two?

 Anyone got any ideas why the sound should start to distort after around 20 mins playing flacs thru Media Monkey (not just 24/96)?. If I close and restart Media Monkey its OK for a while and then distorts again. Same happens using both Musiland playback devices listed above. Probably a Media Monkey issue- will post accordingly but thought I may as well ask here too.

 Thanks in advance!


----------



## denydog

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *coolfungadget* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am Chinese..._

 

I thought you might be.

 BTW- I didn't mind the other poster referring to the Musiland forum as an idiot forum when he couldn't figure it out, but I thought the "Chinese idiot" reference wasn't really necessary.


----------



## lordearl

second that....nutcase


----------



## Kooka

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *denydog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought you might be.

 BTW- I didn't mind the other poster referring to the Musiland forum as an idiot forum when he couldn't figure it out, but I thought the "Chinese idiot" reference wasn't really necessary._

 

"Idiot" was referred to the forum: a forum that does not allow to copy paste password when password is provided only in chinese is idiot. Chinese or american, european or whatever.


----------



## Geir

Musiland 01 usd, recently bought it, and I have a lil question I hope someone can help me with.
 With wasapi, how do I set it to run in exclusive mode?


----------



## miyinan

Will it work as a dac/amp combo? As I am only new to these hifi stuffs, I am looking for a easy and simple setup (computer - dac/amp combo - headphone). Will Monitor 01 or 02 serve my needs?


----------



## wwmhf

Musiland Monitor 01 USD can only read data from your computer. You need a DAC to work together Musiland Monitor 01 USD. There is no place on it to plug a headphone.

 Yes, Monitor 01 or 02 can serve your needs for an easy and simple set up. Monitor 01 might be simpler because it gets data and power through an USB cable while Monitor 02 uses a USB cable to read data but needs be to be plug in wall for an external power. However, Monitor 02 sounds a little better.


----------



## miyinan

Thanks. I never known that Monitor 02 need external power supply. So yes, Monitor 01 seems simpler!


----------



## coolfungadget

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *miyinan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks. I never known that Monitor 02 need external power supply. So yes, Monitor 01 seems simpler!_

 

To clarify, 02US has a built-in power supply unit. 01US/USD can be powered by the USB port on your PC.


----------



## miyinan

Thanks Coolfungadget,

 I was actually looking at many of your products on ebay. Trying to decide among this Monitor 02, Zero and Aune Mk2. I believe that you are selling all of them. Definitely gonna buy one from you very soon, just can't decide which one. They don;t have much difference in price and all have very good feekback from this forum. Do you have any suggestion? The only thing I worried about for the Monitor 02 is the drive problem. It seems that a lot people here had trouble to get it work properly, especially with foobar2000 and vista (although they pretty much all ended up working
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)

 Thanks


----------



## TrumpOrMonkey

Does WASAPI work with the Musiland Monitor 01 USD?


----------



## Ektalog

...at least in Foobar and JRiver. I have not fully tested in Media Player or MC but it does seem to be the case as well. WASAPI, sent to my 02 or 01 via Foobar is really good. Perhaps, tweaked, it is as good as ASIO, though the latter keeps being my choice for now. I do have to spend more time comparing them.

 cPlay does not report WASAPI as available. Not that many people know of cPlay but it is worth trying. Clunky (but stable) interface and terrific sound; both the 01 & 02 are good enough to show this.

 This is all with Win7 pro.


----------



## TrumpOrMonkey

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ektalog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...at least in Foobar and JRiver. I have not fully tested in Media Player or MC but it does seem to be the case as well. WASAPI, sent to my 02 or 01 via Foobar is really good. Perhaps, tweaked, it is as good as ASIO, though the latter keeps being my choice for now. I do have to spend more time comparing them.

 cPlay does not report WASAPI as available. Not that many people know of cPlay but it is worth trying. Clunky (but stable) interface and terrific sound; both the 01 & 02 are good enough to show this.

 This is all with Win7 pro._

 

Thanks for the help Ektalog. I run a very similar player setup to you. Although, ASIO and KS don't work with Foobar2000 on my computer for some reason from the onboard coax digital out. Is ASIO that much better than WASAPI? Aren't they both meant to be bit-perfect? (Or close to it, *don't flame me*)

 I run Windows 7 Home Premium.


----------



## techenvy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jkeny* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll post the translation here - I don't see any problem in doing this:_

 

1, Monitor 01 MINI do NOT require the firmware update to use the new driver(and/or all future driver updates), other products might need that, pay attention to step 4.
 2, protect your license and serial, since they can be used only once, if somebody used it, you will lose your privilege to use new drivers.
 3, follow the step-by-step guide to avoid unnecessary problems.
 4, once the firmware's been upgraded, it will suite all future driver updates, no need to upgrade the firmware again.
 5, if you do not upgrade the firmware, you can't use the new driver and/or all future driver updates, including the 'digital CD' driver(a special driver optimized specifically for 16bit/44.1khz).
 6, the firmware upgrade program only runs on 32 bit OS, while the driver is suitable for both 32/64 bit.

 so does this mean i cannot get the driver upgrade to work on my vista 64 bit OS? 
 bummer,
 anyone have 64 bit and the musiland o1


----------



## mmerrill99

Whoa, 
 That's a post of mine from way back - there may well be more up-to-date information than this. This was a translation taken from the Musiland site when the big firmware changeover was taking place!


----------



## yianni

should i be able to have my laptop volume and musiland volume all the way up with my hfi 780s and handle it?


----------



## thebathingape

New beta driver 1.0.8.6 for Musiland USD1 dated 2 May here : Index of /downloads/drivers/beta

 Quite big. 19mb compared to the 3mb 1.0.8.4.

 New Controlpanel:





 Just started listening with them now and they work fine in win 7 64 bit so far.


----------



## glt

Apparently it has a HDCD decoder...


----------



## lordearl

It's quite user friendly...no comment on the sound yet....


----------



## Uri Cohen

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apparently it has a HDCD decoder..._

 

How do you know that?


----------



## azafeiros

Hi people,
  I am having problems to update my monitor 01USD firmware. I have sent the licence.dat file with my serial  and product model to activate@musiland.com.cn
  But i got no response! ANd the Musiland contact email is not valid!
  I read the 55 pages of posts and saw that it can take up to 2 days to send me  the key. (allready 3 have passed)
  Can somebody tell me what to do next??
   
  Thanks
  Alex


----------



## denydog

Not sure why the musiland contact email might be invalid, but my activation took four days, which included a weekend, to be returned.


----------



## glt

I've heard of some email domains being blocked. Try sending through another email domain.


----------



## Ultratone

azafeiros   ......   Try contacting jeffreytam-at-gmail-dot-com of coolfungadget
  he helped me when I was having trouble getting mine.


----------



## fmak

Viewing forum posts at Musiland.com.cn
   
  Like some others, I am frustrated by not being able to register to view forum posts.
   
  The problem is in inserting the secret answer in Chinese w/o a Chinese keyboard.
   
  Can Coolfungadget get them to put this right? Or can someone without the need for confidentiality post their login details so that we can all read what's been going on?
   
  I am particularly interested on the posts on the new 1.0.8.6 driver.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Ultratone

fmak 
  Hope this is what you need, you can logon with this
   
  Check post #399


----------



## coolfungadget

Thanks for the recap.


----------



## fmak

Thanks; it works. But seriously I can't see why Musiland makes it so difficult to view.
   
  It seems that 1.0.8.6 isn't favoured by quite a few and that 1.0.8.4 sounds better to them. I like it too.
   
  This MUBass business is totally unnecessary as most players have plugins if needed.


----------



## glt

Quote: 





fmak said:


> ...
> The problem is in inserting the secret answer in Chinese w/o a Chinese keyboard.
> 
> ...


 

 I used cut and paste...


----------



## leeperry

quick questions if someone can help please:
   
  -does the master volume work in KS over toslink on XP? possibly in their GUI?
  -does KS run in exclusive mode on XP? like if you play a track in KS or ASIO, can you play a youtube video afterwards?


----------



## leeperry

anyone tried to plug the 01USD directly to their DAC using this adapter? http://cgi.ebay.com/5-pcs-BNC-Male-RCA-Male-plug-adapters-/290438701657


----------



## leeperry

anyone knows if that's the latest firmware?


----------



## FauDrei

Hi Blondie ,
   
  Volume sliders on Musliand Control panel affect all outputs. Yes, KS locks the device on XP. To play something else on Monitor you have to:

 exit KS mode either by exiting player or by using some other non exclusive output type in the player
 when 1st step is performed, (re)start the browser/player to have playback from Monitor in browser/player.
   
  ...but you most probably know all this by now.
   
  Also, yes - 1.0.8.6 is the latest beta.


----------



## leeperry

oh, exclusive mode...very nice! last time I tried a 02US a few months ago it was running KS in shared mode on XP.
   
  the windows master volume shouldn't affect the coax output...strange?! yes the latest beta drivers are always available here: http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads/drivers/beta/
   
  I'll do the procedure to get the latest firmware update, I guess they'll tell me if I run the latest.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





faudrei said:


> Hi Blondie ,
> 
> Volume sliders on Musliand Control panel affect all outputs. Yes, KS locks the device on XP. To play something else on Monitor you have to:
> 
> ...


 

 That is normal for proper KS or ASIO implementation.  The device is locked to one stream and sample rate, it is both good and bad.  Great for music but bad if you are playing more then 1 stream which many of us do as in cheaper products it will cause errors and even crash the card completely.


----------



## leeperry

hehe, I see Patrick82 says that RCA adaptors "beat all the reference interconnects in the whole world": http://www.exeres.org/audio.htm
   
  got to be onto something using this to plug the 01USD straight into my DAC


----------



## qusp

short yes, free of jitter?? no way. maybe it beats RCA interconnects for spdif, but thats not saying too much, its impossible to make any type of RCA that is 75 ohms no matter what the manufacturers say its just not doable, so neither will this and short is not necessarily better with spdif anyway. BNC is where its at.


----------



## leeperry

I show you my secret weapon: http://www.uauctionsource.com/picture/SKU004912_0.jpg
   
  if it's any good I'll prolly grab the gold plated version: http://i.ebayimg.com/06/!BS0tYgQCGk~$(KGrHgoH-DIEjlLlul7eBKFILHJJOQ~~_12.JPG
   
  but someone has reported that the Musiland didn't have a true 75Ω BNC, and some ppl seem to believe that 75Ω coax is not really possible IRL: http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/some-audio-wisdom/


> the impedance mismatch problem at the connector is academical


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





qusp said:


> short yes, free of jitter?? no way. maybe it beats RCA interconnects for spdif, but thats not saying too much, its impossible to make any type of RCA that is 75 ohms no matter what the manufacturers say its just not doable, so neither will this and short is not necessarily better with spdif anyway. BNC is where its at.


 


 There seems to be may opinions on this subject.  Some consider otical to be the best as it isolates the system from the DAC..etc However, what some fail to understand is the quality of the tranceivers is where ths problems can be.
  That is why many suggest using Coax, however, then we get into the 75 ohm information..etc. Again with poor quality coupling etc. 
  So people go with BNC instead, although many think that this connection has it's issues also.
   
  You also get some using adapters from coax to optical or coax to BNC thinking they have magically prevented the issue of that conneciton type.  Sorry, but most of the issues with coax are also in the transmitters and receivers.  Same thing with Coax to optical, you are still using poor quality converters...


----------



## pterodactilo

Are the analog outputs in Musiland Monitor 01 US any good? I read somewhere that compared to e-mu 0404 they are very bad but I can't spend much on a DAC, 100$ is my maximun budget. Do you think there are better options for the price?


----------



## leeperry

"2010: The Year We Make Contact"


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





pterodactilo said:


> Are the analog outputs in Musiland Monitor 01 US any good? I read somewhere that compared to e-mu 0404 they are very bad but I can't spend much on a DAC, 100$ is my maximun budget. Do you think there are better options for the price?


 

 Maybe it would be a beter idea to wait until you have the budget to get what you want.  If you settle for something because you don't have the budget right now....it will drive you crazy and you will want to upgrade again.  Why not wait? Do a bit more research and find a product that gives you exactly what you want.


----------



## wotam

My solution to Musiland:
  bnc male with a true 75 ohms connector.


----------



## thebathingape

New non-beta driver for Musiland USD1 (and others) at http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads/drivers/
  Version 1.0.9.0_build20100612.
   
  Will test it out 
   
  edit: Early impressions are that they seem much less sparkly in the higher frequencies than the 1.0.8.- betas.


----------



## leeperry

very nice, will test them too


----------



## thebathingape

Driver 1.0.10.0 out : http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads/drivers/
   
  http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads/drivers/MlCyMon_1.0.10.0_build20100702.exe
   
  Had some BSOD's with 1.0.9. which i saw others in the chinese forums had as well so hope these fix it since i like the SQ from the 1.0.9.0 alot


----------



## leeperry

yes, that *** soundcard was BSOD'ing all over the place in Reclock via KS on XP SP3 using 1.09


----------



## thebathingape

Yes i thought it was my overclock at first (with summer heat etc), then i downclocked but the still got BSOD's. Then i saw the similar experiences in the musiland forums.


----------



## leeperry

yeah, their drivers engineers are clueless...like most computer audio companies they sell you datasheets and crappy drivers. I'm so glad my current USB S/PDIF transport doesn't need drivers, Tenor TE7022L all the way baby! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  It was also crashing to death w/ 1.86 btw..and their lame clock synthesis is inexcusable anyway. That's the kind of product that gives the Chinese a bad name, coz everything's half-*rsed.


----------



## thebathingape

Yes they make mistakes but at least the driver updates are pretty frequent compared to many other brands.
   
  That Tenor device is DIY only?


----------



## leeperry

many units use that Tenor chip nowadays, Audinst, Teralink X2, Firestone Bravo, Stello U2.
   
  no drivers means no hassle, the generic USB Audio 1.0 drivers work perfectly fine...and up to 24/96 over USB1, so you can use the beautiful USB Isolator(also said to be compatible w/ the Musiland). I've made a thread about the Bravo if you wanna have a look: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/496735/


----------



## thebathingape

Thanks bud ill read up on it


----------



## Audio Bling

[size=medium]I have Musiland 01USD and have swapped out the stock BNC for Vampire true 75ohm. [/size]
   
  [size=medium]Question: Should I also swap out the short connection wires from BNC to PCB so that they match? (This assumes the stock wire is not 75ohm..?) Is 75ohm wire easy to obtain?[/size]
   
  [size=medium]P.S. I would like someone who has actually done this to make a comment as to whether it is worth the trouble.[/size]


----------



## fmak

Yes, space the wires the same distance as the bnc solder points. There are two feeds from the logic chip to two sockets. One may be better than the other, especially where symmetry is concerned. Listen to each and choose the better one.
   
  I see the differenceon a scope and hear slight differences.


----------



## x_lk

Found an interesting article on a Chinese audio forum site. The original link is http://www.hifidiy.net/index.php?action-viewnews-itemid-281
   
  [size=10pt]To summarize this guy's finding in English: he took some serious measurements with an audio analyzer ([/size]Audio Precision SYS-2722-192k), and posted the results as follows (applies to both RCA and BNC),
   
  1. According to IEC-60958, SPDIF output should have an impedance of 75+/-15 ohms and a peak-to-peak voltage of 0.5+/-0.1V. Impedance of 01USD is 77.6 ohms and output voltage is 0.59V (w/o load) or 0.29V (w/ 75 ohms load). Not bad.
   
  2. Average jitter is less than 100ps. This result is for reference only, because it is close to AP SYS-2722-192k's resolution limit. This looks very good.
   
  3. Clock accuracy is not so good and barely meets USB audio spec's +/-500ppm accuracy requirement. 01USD outputs 44.122K for 44.1K source, and 192.019K for 192K source. The differences are +500ppm and +100ppm, respectively.
   
  [Credit goes to hifidiy, the author of the original Chinese version]


----------



## Ultratone

So, I ordered the
 ADuM4160 USB Isolator board, populated from circuitsathome.com  on Sunday and recieved it today, Wednesday, excellent!     Plugged the Isolator into a USB port and then the Musiland 01USD Monitor into the isolator,
  plugged a wall wort into the Isolator. I have not A/B'd with & without the Isolator yet, but I
  believe the improvement is_ great_.
   
    So, what seems to be the best 'MlCyMon' version sound & stability wize??? Opinions please.
  I had problems at first, due to my using a faulty usb cable.
  Oleg Mazurov at circuitsathome responded very quickly to my email for help.
  I would recommend this product and company to anyone.


----------



## AntuanMark

Ultratone,
   
  Could you please compare sound with and without an isolator? It is very interesting to know your opinion.
  And what about your problems with cable? Do you need a special cable? O_o


----------



## Ultratone

AntuanMark  Could you please compare sound with and without an isolator? 
  
    As luck would have it, last week I tried out a different wall wort to see/hear if it made a difference.
  Yes it did. It fried the isolator 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .  In my haste I did not note that the plug has the +- voltage reversed.
    What I can say is, listening without the isolator, since I now have no choice, the sound has a very
  mild/fine grittiness and a loss of air and cohesiveness, that is to say the impression that performers
  are playing in the same space. A loss of musical flow? For the small cost it's worth a try.
    As to the cable problem, at first I was using a compromised cable I had modified to use an
  external power supply. Once I swapped in my printer usb cable it worked ok.
   
  UPDATE: This morning ......
  I don't understand how or why but after poking around with a meter checking for voltages
  which were 5v after the sm-reg, good, then pluging the monitor01usd in and then into the
  Buffalo dac, well, it's playing!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe checking the diodes reverse biased them or ??
   
  I will compare the sound with and without the isolator.


----------



## K3cT

I'm having serious driver issues at the moment with Windows 7 64-bit. At first I thought my DAC went crazy but after checking with the optical and coaxial outputs of my DVD player, it turns out that it is the Musiland unit that is acting up. Any consensus which driver version is the best to use stability-wise with the above-mentioned OS?


----------



## AntuanMark

I have the same OS and no problems. I use the latest driver. 1.0.9.0


----------



## back

hi guys.i have a musiland 01usd  version 2009.
  reading all the 57 pages i wasn`t able to upgrade it`s firmware.
  when i run micymonuser it keeps telling me device not found.
   
  any suggestions?


----------



## Ultratone

Maybe post #405 and 745 can help you.


----------



## robob

hi everybody,
   
  I read a lot of pages but I didn't find anywhere the confimation : is the *Musiland 1 monitor USD *working in bulk mode or not ?
   
]audioasylum.com, John Swenson :
_"The one that is interesting is the Musiland thingy. It actually implements an async mode, but NOT the official one, so it requires a custom driver. They took *an asynchronous bulk data *mode implemented by the USB chip they use and wrote a custom driver to implement an audio interface for it."_
   
  the Musiland chip is a CY7C68013A (Cypress EZ-usb) :  this chip can work both in BULK or ISOCHRONOUS mode...
   
  On another site :
 "_Some audiophiles friends of mine think that HiFace & Musiland Monitor 01 USD are using 24/192-capable asynchronous USB reception. I doubt about that. What's your comment?"_

 Gordon Rankin (Wavelength Audio) response :
_"I think these guys are using the Cypress EZ-USB controller and driver setup. This would use *BULK protocol *long with drivers for operating systems that make them look like an Audio device."_
   
  So is-it asynchronous bulk transfert (data correction and time control like hard drive usb) or asynchronous isochronous transfert (only time control)
   
  (Sorry for my english)


----------



## leeperry

IIRC Musiland first said isochronous, then quickly said "async"...but god knows what happens in their (crappy) drivers. A good rule of thumb is to never believe what manufacturers state...w/o proofs. The same way companies that sell grossly overpriced TAS1020B firmwares will diss the competition whenever they get the chance.


----------



## robob

So nobody know the reponse in these 57 pages ?
   
  I have not buy the Musiland monitor 1 USd for the moment. A way to know if it is, or not, working in bulk mode is to build a very long USB wire (with phone wire for example) : with a certain length, there will be transmission errors: If the protocol is bulk, the latency should increase but there will be no mistake (like with network protocol). If the protocol is isochronous, there will be errors (pop in the sound).
   
  May be there is a software solution to know, with some Windows tools what is the USB protocol used...


----------



## robob

Hi,
   
  I received a Musiland monitor 1 USD next week but I have some "lisense invalid" problems :
  - The drivers on the CD are the 1.0.7 : "lisense invalid"
  -I tried the 1.0.5, 1.06, 1.0.12, same thing : "lisense invalid"
  - With the 1.0.3 firware, I had no message but the player don't play music to the Musiland output.
  -If I go back to 1.0.5 (or highest) from 1.0.3 : "lisense invalid"
   
  I asked Musiland for the licence.key, I'm waiting for It. I hope it will be better after.
   
  Otherwise, I started to do some tests using a software called "Advanced USB Port Monitor". With Windows XP, the Musiland driver is recognized as "Bulk Transfer"( not isochronous/asynchronous). I'll try to have more info, but as my Musiland does not seem to want to work,it is a bit difficult.


----------



## robob

Hi, always me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I sent my request for the licence.key file 5 days ago (thursday the 13). I immediately received a reply

```
Your email has been received, please wait for reply.
```
  But nothing new for the moment...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm going to resend the mail.


----------



## robob

I Receive my license.key this morning : doesn't work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Always the "license invalid" message with all the firmware (1.0.5 to 1.0.13).
  I don't understand, I tried all possible combinations, installing firmwares, uninstalling, rebooting, connecting,unconnecting, deleting the registry key, changing computer...
   
  I asked Musiland for another license.key.


----------



## leeperry

the only thing I can say is that at some point my 01USD was whining about the license, so I asked the manufacturer for an update. It took them several days to get back to me, so in the meantime I tried to install it again and it worked. Still, I installed the update they gave me by email but it was the same fw version.
   
  did you try several different versions of their (buggy) drivers?


----------



## glt

I seem to remember that updating the firmware must be done in a 32 bit machine... Also, there is a version of the drivers that does not require firmware update. I believe the drive that came with the device in the CD should work right away.
  Quote: 





robob said:


> I Receive my license.key this morning : doesn't work
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## robob

I tried all the firmware at Musiland download : http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads/drivers/ and http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads/drivers/history/ 
  For information the last one is 1.0.13.0
  The 1.0.3 doesn't give me the "license invalid" message. I get it here : http://coolfungadget.com/musiland/Monitor_Series/
  But this firmware 1.0.3 doesn't work : the player do not play the music (like in pause).
   
  I tried only the MlcyMon drivers (supposing the other ones are not for Monitor 01 USD).
   
  I don't understand if there is only one Monitor 1USD version or two, or if there is only different firmware. It seems some download gives both the firmware and the  drivers and others only the drivers.
   
  Sorry again for my poor english.


----------



## robob

My computer is 32 bits...


----------



## glt

License invalid only means the firmware was not updated. The only reason to upgrade the firmware (and that is the only time firmware upgrade was provided) is to enable a security feature so that musiland drivers can only be used on musiland devices... I would retry the firmware update again.
   
  PS: There is a difference between "driver" and "firmware". Firmware is MlCyMonAct.zip
   
  Quote: 





robob said:


> I tried all the firmware at Musiland download : http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads/drivers/ and http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads/drivers/history/
> For information the last one is 1.0.13.0
> The 1.0.3 doesn't give me the "license invalid" message. I get it here : http://coolfungadget.com/musiland/Monitor_Series/
> But this firmware 1.0.3 doesn't work : the player do not play the music (like in pause).
> ...


----------



## robob

Quote: 





glt said:


> License invalid only means the firmware was not updated. The only reason to upgrade the firmware (and that is the only time firmware upgrade was provided) is to enable a security feature so that musiland drivers can only be used on musiland devices... I would retry the firmware update again.
> 
> PS: There is a difference between "driver" and "firmware". Firmware is MlCyMonAct.zip


 
   
  No,
   
  For example the last MlCyMon_1.0.13.0_build20110117.exe  download : running the exe file and pluging the Musiland, you get 3 hardware installations :

   
  I know that is in French langage but you can see the name in english 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Musiland Monitor Bus Driver
  Musiland Monitor 01
*Musiland Monitor Firmware driver*
* *
  not all the download have the Firmware driver.
   
  The result is "License invalid" in the title bar with my Musiland Monitor :
   

   
  I can then try running the MlCyMonAct stuff to update my license, running MlCyMonProg.exe with the license.key sent by Musiland :
   

   
  I suppose this tool gives an encryption key for it to work with newer firmware .. I try ..... ....


----------



## robob

...I tried to run this tool after different download installations : 1.0.5, 1.0.6 ,1.0.9, etc...
  I always have the "invalid license" message .


----------



## glt

I can't read French, but that looks like the standard "unsigned" driver installation warning message. Just click continue. The drivers are unsigned with the Microsoft key. Many people do that (I think to avoid fees?) but if you trust the driver, then go ahead and install it. If you don't trust the driver, then you can bail out...


----------



## robob

hi,
  I know that of course.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I only show these screenshots to show you the drivers name.
  Anyway, I'm waiting for a new license.key file from www.musiland.com.cn. If this new one doesn't work I will return back the Musiland monitor.


----------



## glt

But can you play music? It seems you have installed the drivers.


----------



## AntuanMark

Does anybody know how can it be installed on the Linux? Ubuntu.


----------



## Markitch

Which is the problem updating firmwre with win7 64b? I made the process without any errors and it dissapears the warning license message. But the audio sounds strange, with noise and like stutering. 
   
  Im going to try to update with the laptop win xp 32b...


----------



## robob

Hi,
  Just to inform anybody helping me that I replaced my -not working- Musiland by a new one, all is ok now.
   
  This website confirms my view that the Musiland Monitor 01USD uses bulk mode (asynchronous/asynchronous transfert with error correction).
   
  Sory again for my limited english


----------



## AntuanMark

Hello,
  I updated to the new driver from musiland - 2.0.0.0 and it shows license invalid and doesnt play any sound. So I back to 1.0.13.0 and for now when I have ASIO output in foobar I have a lot of noice and distortion. Before this update all was perfect. Any ideas?
  PS. I tried to reinstall and reboot my pc  a few times.. no success.


----------



## JavierS

Quote: 





antuanmark said:


> Hello,
> I updated to the new driver from musiland - 2.0.0.0 and it shows license invalid and doesnt play any sound. So I back to 1.0.13.0 an d for now when I have ASIO output in foobar I have a lot of noice and distortion. Before this update all was perfect. Any ideas?
> PS. I tried to reinstall and reboot my pc  a few times.. no success.


 

 Did you use the July 27th ( MlCyMon_2.0.0.0_build20110727.exe) or the August 12th one (MlCyMon_2.0.0.0_build20110809.exe)?
   
  I also had the same problem with the August one but July's work fine.


----------



## trog

Hi a fren of mine might be getting this : so did it work fine in Ubuntu?
  Quote: 





antuanmark said:


> Does anybody know how can it be installed on the Linux? Ubuntu.


----------



## K3cT

We don't really talk about this converter anymore do we? It's actually surprisingly decent and despite the Chinese origin, Musiland actually puts a focus on its USB driver development and the latest driver 2.0.0.0 seems to improve the sound a fair bit. 
   
  Here is an awesome blog that has a comprehensive information repository regarding the Musiland converter series including some technical notes.


----------



## ybaus

Hey Guys! I have received my Musilan 01 yesterday, but I can't get any "noise" out of it. I don't know what else should I do. I downloaded the beta version of the driver, since the cd came with didn't work, but still no success to listen any music. I have the Cambridge Audio 840 cd player connected to my vista laptop by Musiland 01, but still nothing. Are there anybody who has the same or similar configuration and went trough this problem and could help me out? We could connect by Team viewer 4 to get some real help, since I'm not too good with this computer music stuff........... Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!!!


----------



## ybaus

My problem has been solved!!!


----------



## wuf

How is this compared to the m2tech hiface?? Im looking for something cheaper that can play 24 bit 96 khz audio from usb.


----------



## LugBug1

Just got one of these guys today and must say it works a treat! I'm using it via toslink with optical cable out.
   
  Pros: (using both my budget dacs, Vdac and Super pro 707) More authoritative performance all round. Clearer yet smoother. Tighter bass. More detail and air between instruments. Less hardness at the top with brass for e.g. Can now use 24 bits as opposed to 16 bit via USB dac input.
   
  Ofcourse all of these are subtle differences but they do mount up to a significant whole.
   
  Cons: the only minor thing that I encountered was when using my Netbook which is not very powerful. When I'm using the computer at the same time as listening to music I'm getting some jitter. This goes when I'm only listening to music and I've disabled the wireless connection. Must be said however that my Netbook is about 4 year old and it overheats at the very mention of 24 bits!  
   
  Easy enough to set up but you have to manually set the sample rate to 24/96 as it automatically sets at 24/48. 24/192 does not work with both my computers...
   
  For those having probs with Asio, unless you are using it for recording purposes where latency will be an obvious problem, then you don't really need it if you are using a Spdif link such as this. (I've had nothing but problems with it too) 
   
  Its nice to be able to get the very best out of my dacs now, as before and with most USB dacs you will always get an inferior performance compared to a spdif signal direct to the dac.
   
  Not bad for £50. A highly recommended upgrade!


----------



## kiteki

I think this is the new driver?, downloading from China Zzzzzzzzzzz...
   





 MlCyMon_2.1.0.0_build20111026.exe


----------



## kiteki

First I used the driver on the CD, which worked perfectly, however it's very basic, I want to try the MU-DSP and like the look of the black interface.
   
  So I downloaded MlXCMon_2.1.0.0_build20111109.exe, which was for PCI, ok, deleted.
   
  Next, I tried M1CyMon_2.1.0.0_build20111109, (black UI) no sound.
   
  Then I tried M1CyMon_2.1.0.0_build20111026, (white UI) the MU-DSP didn't work, and I couldn't hear the differences in upsampling anymore.
   
  Downloading this one now, *Zzzzzzzzzzzz.......*





 MlCyMon_2.0.0.0_build20110727.exe 27-Jul-2011 12:59 17M


----------



## kiteki

The 0727 driver looks really good and works well:
   

   
  However I can't get MU-DSP or the upsampling to work.
   
  Anyone?
   
   
   
  OK Now I downloaded the MlCyMon_1.0.14.0_build20110701 driver, which looks like this:
   

   
  Now the MU-BASS is working (when you click on the panel, it activates and becomes green), however I still find it quite difficult to hear the upsampling.
   
  For reference I'm using various FLAC, and a violin clip on youtube, where in the most basic driver I felt it was quite easy to differentiate 44.1kHz and 192kHz resampling yesterday.
   
   
  When selecting "Precision" mode.
   

   
  It takes a few seconds to change to precision mode, and then there is no sound, it doesn't work. It worked in driver 0727 - it may have been illusory, too close to call, however it felt like precision mode sounded ever so slightly more refined, when it was working in driver 0727.
   
  Ftr, MU-BASS and upsampling has zero effect when running in ASIO.
   
   
   
  I went around the loop!
   
  I'm now back to the driver that came with the CD, Version 1.0.7.0
   

   
   
  After spending all day downloading different drivers (approx 45 minute download per driver), this is the only one were I feel upsampling is actually working.
   
  After listening to the same violin track on all of them, I know this is the only one where something is happening.
   
   
  MU-BASS / MU-DSP is only a novelty anyway.
   
  Really loved the look of driver 0727 however.


----------



## kiteki

Wow! I installed the KS file. This sounds good.


----------



## kiteki

It's much faster to download from here: http://download.tamaudio.com/musiland/Monitor_USB/
   
  Driver 1.0.9.0 = Fail
   
  Driver 1.0.8.4 = Fail
   
  Trying 1.0.8.0 now...


----------



## mhconley

I recieved a new Musiland 01 USD on Saturday, installed the latest drivers from Musiland (MlCyMon_2.2.0.0_build20111228) and have been using it off an on all weekend playing everything from 16/44.1 to 24/192 and everything in between.
   
  I use foobar and note the device shows up under Output several ways, the two most interesting of which are "ASIO : Musiland Monitor Series(USB)" which I expected, and "WASAPI : SPDIF Interface (MUSILAND Monitor 01 USD)" which I did not.

   
  I find when I choose ASIO the Musiland control panel shows ASIO lit under status and the DSPs all seem active.

   
  What I have found really interesting and completely unexpected is when I choose WASAPI the control panel shows PASS lit under status and none of the DSPs are active.

   
  My Citypulse DA7.2x II DAC is detecting and properly locking onto all sampling rate rates when I use WASAPI.  When I choose ASIO I lose the lock when I switch between songs with different sampling rates; this does not occur with WASAPI.
   
  I guess ASIO is still a little buggy but WASAPI is working flawlessly.  Seems like a better choice to me...  Am I missing something?  Or should I just be happy I have something working so darned well and sounding better than I could have hoped?  
   
  Martin
   
  EDIT: I found the ASIO lock issue is fixed in the latest foobar ASIO update (foo_out_asio 2.1).


----------



## Microcuts

Anyone using this on a Mac? If so, does it require drivers? I'm looking for a usb to spdif or bnc or aes converter that supports 24/192 without drivers on Mac. Something like the Stello U3 but preferably cheaper .


----------



## JulioCat2

The drivers for the Mac ar in beta state check here
   
  http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/category/usb-audio/


----------



## Microcuts

I'd prefer a converter that doesn't require separate drivers on Mac. They exist: Stello U3, but I'm looking for a cheaper option.


----------



## ybaus

I could use some help though. I downloaded the latest driver for my Musiland US 01 and the left channel is muted. The asio shows both channels working, but the digital out level meter on the left bottom (musiland control panel) shows only the right channel. When I listen XBMC internet radio with status pass, everything is O.K. I didn't have any problem with the old driver. Any idea what could be my problem is? Thanks for any replay.


----------



## ybaus

Also some questions, since English is not my native language. First step to uninstall the old driver, but with the card plugged in or pulled out? Next step is install the driver first from the link listed on their website and plug the card after, or first plug the card wait for the installation, and download the software? Sorry for my misunderstanding, but I'm not a computer wizard anyway. Thanks


----------



## ybaus

O.K., I'm fine now. I reinstalled it 3 times, and now work fine!!!


----------



## chaosallied

hi, just started to use the 01USD with Win7 64bit to matrix mini-i... i just noticed that the windows default is to send 32bit/44.1khz to the 01usd, i have to click 24bit/192khz everytime i restart my PC... is there a way to make 24/192 as default? it will not affect foobar because i'm using ASIO for bit-perfect transfer but i like 24/192 for my movies... unless you guys say 32/44.1 is better, then i will take your word for it


----------



## Microcuts

Quote: 





chaosallied said:


> hi, just started to use the 01USD with Win7 64bit to matrix mini-i... i just noticed that the windows default is to send 32bit/44.1khz to the 01usd, i have to click 24bit/192khz everytime i restart my PC... is there a way to make 24/192 as default? it will not affect foobar because i'm using ASIO for bit-perfect transfer but i like 24/192 for my movies... unless you guys say 32/44.1 is better, then i will take your word for it


 

 How do you compare the sound of the mini-i's usb to using a 01USD?


----------



## chaosallied

have not tried yet, will do in when i have time then will report back =)


----------



## nmxdaven

For people that have tried it, has anyone noticed a significant diffrence when using the Musiland to run coax or optical to their dac as opposed to just using a USB direct to the dac?


----------



## bruce108

Quote: 





> For people that have tried it, has anyone noticed a significant diffrence when using the Musiland to run coax or optical to their dac as opposed to just using a USB direct to the dac?


 
   
  Tried it. My desktop DAC is the SuperPro 707. I prefer the Musiland - DAC combination, but it's not a dramatic difference. I guess the jitter reduction in the SuperPro must be pretty good.


----------



## NiToNi

Musiland's website is down.
   
http://www.­musiland.­com.­cn/­downloads/­drivers/­beta/­MlCyMon_2.­3.­0.­0_build20120413.­exe
   
  Could somebody kindly send me the file or link to a mirror somewhere. Googling comes up with nothing.


----------



## NiToNi

Nevermind, I found a mirror (to an even newer version):
   
http://dl.musiland.cn/MlCyMon_2.4.1.0_build20120822.exe
   
  But now I am struggling with downloading a non-corrupt copy of the the MlCyMonAct.zip file for the activation process:
   
http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads/utils/MlCyMonAct.zip
   
  This one is only 13k so if some kind soul could send me a copy, that would be swell


----------



## chaosallied

does anybody know if the 01USD can "bitstream" dts/dolby digital to a "decoder"?


----------



## Sofyan88

Hi, I'm new here
  looking for some DAC and interesting to Musiland Monitor 01 US, but have some question.
  1. a couple mounths ago, I use Sony Home Theatre connect via optical toslink onboard soundcard from Rampage IV extreme motherboard. result is I can hear Surround 5.1 in movies. but NO Surrond in game, it's stereo in game. it's not what I want.
   
  2. so, I upgrade the soundcard to Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro. and yes.. I can hear Surround 5.1 in game, also better SQ
   
  3. Now I have Thonet & Vander Kurbis 2.0 as Music while my Sony Home Theatre is for Movie and game. so when I want to listen music, I switch to Analog output (T&V Kurbis) and when I want to watch movie or playin' games, I switch to Optical Output (sony Home theatre). my X Fi Fatal1ty is doing well. it's Surround 5.1 in movie and games.
   
  but I was curious to upgrade my X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro to DAC Musiland Monitor 01 US.
  the question is: Will Musiland Monitor 01 US do Surround 5.1 in GAME via Digital Output???
   
  thanks in advance


----------



## Sphinx

I know this is an old thread but I'm wondering if someone could help me out. I just recently got a monitor 01 USD, and today received the license key. I put it in the directory and rant the prog software to burn the eeprom. I unplugged the USB and waited a couple minutes and when I plugged it back in I still get the License invalid error. 
  
 Am I missing something? How did you guys end up getting them to work?


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## greatwl

My Musiland Monitor 01 stop working after I tried my homemade
 USB cable (later I discovered wire was connected wrong).
 Anybody know how to fix it or it is beyond repair?
 Thanks!


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## mateusfig

antuanmark said:


> Does anybody know how can it be installed on the Linux? Ubuntu.


 
 Unfortunatelly, not still.


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