# The Ikea Lack-Rack thread



## Thaddy

I just got back from Ikea and I purchased 3 of their Lack tables to make a nice budget audio stand. These have been mentioned many times before, but an official thread really doesn't exist, so I figured I'd make one to be used as a simple How-To guide and a reference for others seeking a low budget audio rack.

 The Lack tables are incredible inexpensive, and I paid $41.69 for *three*. It's a fairly sturdy table, especially for the price. In the future I also plan on using some smaller carpet spikes or rubber feet to keep them from sliding, but at the moment the funds aren't available for them (I'm sort of in the middle of moving to Houston).

 I won't be able to have pictures up tonight, but I'm going to hack 5 inches off each leg. My components aren't very tall, and by my calulations this will still leave 10 inches of clearance between the tables. For my equipment, that's plenty of room, since my tallest component (my amp _on_ Vibrapods) stands a hair over 5 inches.

 I'll update this thread as I progress, and will definately include pictures when I can get ahold of my digital camera again
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Edit: Here's a picture of the finished product! I ended up only taking off 5 inches, and I'm glad I did. I've got plenty of room for future upgrades.


----------



## recstar24

Cool, just what the doctor ordered. Can't wait to see pics though.


----------



## soundboy

Do something like this....


----------



## jumping jupiters

Nice idea guys...i am in the middle of building my own rack too...i am basing it off of a rack i saw on the Virtual Systems page of Audiogon:

 5 Maple cutting boards...18" x 24" x 1 1/2"...using 3/4 treaded rod and zinc plated hardware to make each shelf independently adjustable. it is going to be more along the looks of a coffee table then a tower...about 3' high...I'll post some pics here in a week or two...waiting for the shelves to come it.

 total expense is about $250 (including cherry stain to match speakers)!


----------



## Thaddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *soundboy* 
_Do something like this....

image removed_

 

That's the idea! But mine won't be quite the same. I just got done cutting the legs, and I'm assembling the tables now. I cut 5 inches off of all the legs (unfortunately mine *are* hollow
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and will just be stacking the 3 tables on top of each other. I'm sure some day I'll add another table-top for my power conditioner on the bottom.


----------



## euclid

i've been thinking of using the same layout with the double width coffee table version, dlp tv on top, sources and headphone amp on middle shelf, power amps on the lower level. but i need to double check load ratings first.

 is there a definative answer to the hollow vs honeycomb core situation? could all the tables be hollow now? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thaddy what finish did you buy?


----------



## Thaddy

I got the Birch, and the legs are definately hollow, except for ~2 inches on either end of the legs.

 To keep them from sliding around, I'm cutting some 2mm thick foam to the exact shape of the legs footprint. I just set the table on top to get a nice impression, then cut out the shape using some sharp fabric scissors. It seems to be working well so far.


----------



## NightWoundsTime

What are the feet in the picture? Looks nice.


----------



## Thaddy

Well, I'm finished with the rack now, and I think it turned out ok. I mean hell, for $40 you can't go wrong...

 I also ended up finding my camera here at home, so if I can dig up the software I'll post some pictures tonight. It's a good thing my parents let me make room next to the couch downstairs to set it up


----------



## n_maher

Can't wait to see the Millett displayed properly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 When is the big move?


----------



## euclid

this is the coffee table version, ideally id like to use 3. the base having no legs and then the first level tall enough to allow ventilation for monoblocks. edit: im doubting that will hold a 70lb tv actually


----------



## Thaddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *n_maher* 
_Can't wait to see the Millett displayed properly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 When is the big move?_

 

I updated my first post with a picture. 

 [size=xx-small]Nate, I'll be leaving the 'Burgh on June 25th
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 [/size]

 Edit: Euclid, I'm sure it would hold the TV if you added two more legs (not needed from the bottom table) and put them in the middle.


----------



## Jon L

This is my two-tier coffee-table Lack version. I have spikes under the feet and under the bottom shelf. 

 For my speaker setup, the Lack rack actually sounds better than most racks/isolation devices I've tried, but for headphone setups where speaker/room vibrations are a non-issue, it doesn't make much difference in sound quality.


----------



## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *euclid* 
_this is the coffee table version, ideally id like to use 3. the base having no legs and then the first level tall enough to allow ventilation for monoblocks. edit: im doubting that will hold a 70lb tv actually




_

 

That's nice, too bad there's no Ikea here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Do you know if they ship? All the places charge so much for shipping to Hawaii that I decided when I finally buy a new rack, I'm probably just going to go all out and buy a Lovan.


----------



## Glod

Nice tables and solutions guys!

 I also had an IKEA table some years ago for the speaker system, but since a couple of years I have a three-column rack of own design, construction and make. The columns are 80mm, thin-walled SS tubes, filled with sand. To be honest, the sound did not improve as much as when I moved the equipment from a book case to the IKEA table. It looks nicer though.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can anybody report changes in the sound from their equipment when placed on these tables?


----------



## digitalmind

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thaddy* 
_That's the idea! But mine won't be quite the same. I just got done cutting the legs, and I'm assembling the tables now. I cut 5 inches off of all the legs (unfortunately mine *are* hollow
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) and will just be stacking the 3 tables on top of each other. I'm sure some day I'll add another table-top for my power conditioner on the bottom._

 

Hollow legs! Awesome! 
 You can route cables through them. I might have to drop by ikea afterall.


----------



## mattigol

Now you got me started....do you know if they are available in a walnut veneer?


----------



## sjt78

Ikea has some great stuff. I try to visit the Ikea on Long Island whenever I'm in the area. As for an alternative to the Lack table rack, I found a great rack at Target that comes in either cherry/caramel or black. It has very nice glass shelves as well. I just bought a second one last night. Here is a picture:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and here is a link to find it on their website:http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...sin=B000DT7DG2

 I think for $110 it is very well made and requires no modifications. Each shelf has three positions so you should be able to fit any component you'd like. I thought I'd share this other option with everyone. 
 -Steve


----------



## Jon L

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sjt78* 
_Ikea has some great stuff. I try to visit the Ikea on Long Island whenever I'm in the area. As for an alternative to the Lack table rack, I found a great rack at Target that comes in either cherry/caramel or black. It has very nice glass shelves as well. I just bought a second one last night. Here is a picture:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and here is a link to find it on their website:http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...sin=B000DT7DG2

 I think for $110 it is very well made and requires no modifications. Each shelf has three positions so you should be able to fit any component you'd like. I thought I'd share this other option with everyone. 
 -Steve_

 

That's a great buy for headphone users. But if you use speakers, I would try to avoid glass shelves, especially thin ones like those. Both MDF and glass sound similarly sub-optimal in speaker-based systems. Compared to Lack shelves (or my Neuance shelves), glass tends to sound bright and thin. MDF tends to deaden the sound while hardening the upper-mids..

 Quick and dirty way to predict what a certain shelf will sound like in speaker systems is to hit it with a mallet or even knuckle. The sound of 'thwack' you hear will surprisingly resemble the sound signature you will hear from your speakers...


----------



## AlanY

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jon L* 
_Both MDF and glass sound similarly sub-optimal in speaker-based systems. Compared to Lack shelves (or my Neuance shelves), glass tends to sound bright and thin. MDF tends to deaden the sound while hardening the upper-mids.._

 

I don't understand your comment about MDF. Didn't you praises the Lack rack for speakers just a couple posts ago? All the Lacks are made of is veneered particle board, which is even less dense than MDF.


----------



## clarke68

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thaddy* 
_unfortunately mine *are* hollow
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Interesting...I started building one a few months ago and the legs are solid. I've heard Ikea uses different factories to build their stuff, and certain things vary. If you still have your Lack boxes, take a look and see where yours were made. Mine are from Poland, with the Birch finish.


----------



## sjt78

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jon L* 
_That's a great buy for headphone users. But if you use speakers, I would try to avoid glass shelves, especially thin ones like those. Both MDF and glass sound similarly sub-optimal in speaker-based systems. Compared to Lack shelves (or my Neuance shelves), glass tends to sound bright and thin. MDF tends to deaden the sound while hardening the upper-mids..

 Quick and dirty way to predict what a certain shelf will sound like in speaker systems is to hit it with a mallet or even knuckle. The sound of 'thwack' you hear will surprisingly resemble the sound signature you will hear from your speakers..._

 

Jon,
 How does the material of the shelf affect the sound? I can see if I were putting speakers on thin glass shelves how they would vibrate and not sound good, but for components? I'm not sure I believe that. How about 1" thick glass, would that sound different than 1" MDF or 1" hard wood? Not that I'm saying I wouldn't like thicker glass shelves to come with the Target audio rack, but I'm not convinced it is degrading the sound.
 -Steve


----------



## euclid

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AlanY* 
_I don't understand your comment about MDF. Didn't you praises the Lack rack for speakers just a couple posts ago? All the Lacks are made of is veneered particle board, which is even less dense than MDF._

 

actually the lack tables that earned them their reputation alittle while back were some sort of honeycomb core.

 to briefly answer the question regarding material selection, a speaker creates noise (esp bass) by moving air, when that happens there is a small shockwave that the component rack must neutralize or the vibration will continue into the cd player/amp and affect the sound. different materials have different talents


----------



## Thaddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clarke68* 
_Interesting...I started building one a few months ago and the legs are solid. I've heard Ikea uses different factories to build their stuff, and certain things vary. If you still have your Lack boxes, take a look and see where yours were made. Mine are from Poland, with the Birch finish._

 

Mine actually can shrinkwrapped in clear plastic. No box!


----------



## Patu

Very nice Thaddy. I have one lack table also but I use it for what it's meant to be used.


----------



## jumping jupiters

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sjt78* 
_Jon,
 How does the material of the shelf affect the sound? I can see if I were putting speakers on thin glass shelves how they would vibrate and not sound good, but for components? I'm not sure I believe that. How about 1" thick glass, would that sound different than 1" MDF or 1" hard wood? Not that I'm saying I wouldn't like thicker glass shelves to come with the Target audio rack, but I'm not convinced it is degrading the sound.
 -Steve_

 


 believe it or not your equipment has a similar issue as your speakers do (not as extreme albeit)...especially tubed gear. look on any audio site...they all spend significant pages devoted to isolation...every material (glass, wood, mdf) has different resonant properties and will change sound somewhat...tighten loosen bass (slightly), round off a bright top end, add clarity, etc.... 

 do an experiment...put wood under a component (make sure it is one piece and not spererate wood for each leg...and the thicker the better)...first listen to a familiar disc as is...then add the other material and listen again...you may notice immediate change or possibly less fatigue over time...or nothing at all...everything is component/system dependent.


----------



## Thaddy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jumping jupiters* 
_believe it or not your equipment has a similar issue as your speakers do (not as extreme albeit)...especially tubed gear. look on any audio site...they all spend significant pages devoted to isolation...every material (glass, wood, mdf) has different resonant properties and will change sound somewhat...tighten loosen bass (slightly), round off a bright top end, add clarity, etc.... 

 do an experiment...put wood under a component (make sure it is one piece and not spererate wood for each leg...and the thicker the better)...first listen to a familiar disc as is...then add the other material and listen again...you may notice immediate change or possibly less fatigue over time...or nothing at all...everything is component/system dependent._

 

Just because many audio sites have sections dedicated to isolation does not mean it's a legit way to tweak and change the sound of your system.

 Do not turn this thread into a debate about which material sounds better. Personally, I think it's a bunch of bull****. If you don't like the way your system sounds, then get different speakers/CDP/amps etc... Either way, this thread is for budget audio racks, especially the Lack tables.


----------



## clarke68

Just in case anyone missed it, the original plan/design for the Ikea Lack Rack is here, as posted by Ken Lyon. Ken runs a company called Neuance, which makes highly-regarded (and expensive) audio racks, and he found that the Ikea tables are similar in construction to his, and so they "work" on the same principle. 

 I haven't personally experienced the dramatic improvements some people talk about with different shelf/platform materials, but (as Thaddy mentioned just above) the Lack tables do the job, and look great considering the price and ease of construction.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jon L* 
_That's a great buy for headphone users. But if you use speakers, I would try to avoid glass shelves, especially thin ones like those. Both MDF and glass sound similarly sub-optimal in speaker-based systems. Compared to Lack shelves (or my Neuance shelves), glass tends to sound bright and thin._

 

Like I said, I haven't experienced any consistent "sound" of different shelf materials, but there are more practical & obvious things to consider with speaker systems. We have a china cabinet with thin glass shelves in my 2-channel listening room (read: our living room), and when the bass gets going, the shelves rattle & buzz horrifically.


----------



## Oliver :)

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thaddy* 
_Just because many audio sites have sections dedicated to isolation does not mean it's a legit way to tweak and change the sound of your system._

 

Many people make a lot of money with isolation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The issue is: It _may_ or _may not_ make a difference, and if it does results may vary a lot. You have to try things with your personal setup in order to get valid resulty, everything else is pretty pointless. 

 Tose LACK setups look really sweet. I have a more self-made setup created from other, non-LACK IKEA boards 





 that made everything sound terrible until I tweaked it with Pandafeet.


----------



## Jon L

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sjt78* 
_Jon,
 How does the material of the shelf affect the sound? I can see if I were putting speakers on thin glass shelves how they would vibrate and not sound good, but for components? I'm not sure I believe that. How about 1" thick glass, would that sound different than 1" MDF or 1" hard wood? Not that I'm saying I wouldn't like thicker glass shelves to come with the Target audio rack, but I'm not convinced it is degrading the sound.
 -Steve_

 

This is really a huge topic, admittedly controversial. My approach is this. Once again, the effects will be much more important in speaker systems due to speaker-induced vibrations and room vibrations. 

 Various gear will have varying susceptibility to vibrations and resonance. Gear with less moving parts, more robust enclosure/construction will be affected less. CDP in general will be most affected, especially if using the typical cheap, flimsy sheet-metal most cheap gear uses. Clocks and digital chips widely in use today are very susceptible to vibrations. A room that is constructed from wood/plaster will be more affected than concrete rooms. 

 A given gear, let's say a CDP, is under attack from 4 sources of vibration/resonance:

 1) Floor-born vibration--speaker/room vibration will be transmitted to the gear straight through the audio rack. This is probably the main reason better racks like Lack make the most difference. Some believe the very low frequency resonance from the earth itself affect sensitive gear. Denser material such as steel is not necessarily better b/c they tend to better transmit the floor vibration to the gear (bad). Something like Lack, by virtue of its multi-layer low-energy-storing design, dissipates more of the floor vibration before it hits the gear.

 2) Air-born vibration--the more air speaker can move, the worse this affect. When air-born vibrations hits the CDP, that vibrational/resonance energy will both stay in the CDP and dissipate through its feet to the shelf/rack. The more energy that stays in the CDP and affects the delicate chips, transport mechanism, etc, the worse the affect. Designs such as Lack increases the portion of energy that's dissipated through the shelf/rack (good). A MDF shelf or glass tends to receive the energy, but they are not as good as dissipating that energy away. Instead, MDF/glass can even spit back the vibration energy into the gear it's sitting on. 

 3) Cable-born vibration--those stiff audiophile interconnects, speaker cables, power cords can transmit vibration from speakers/air/room right back into the gear. It is my belief this is part of the reason why the external jacket of cable alone can make some difference in sound by their damping properties, both for electrical signal going towards speakers and mechanical vibration coming back to the gear. 

 4) Internal vibration--in the case of CDP, the rapid motor mechanism, vibration of the CD/transport generate self-vibration that has to stay inside the CDP or be dissipated outside. Even gear without "moving parts" actually do have a lot of low-level and/or microscopic vibrations. All those transformers all have varying amounts of vibrations as well as low-level 60Hz hum that permeates everything. Various strategies to drain away these self-vibrations, including Lack, will be important especially in headphone systems, where the bigger speaker-affects are absent, unmasking the problems that are usually masked by speaker/room vibrations. 

 That is how I digest the various theories I've read about or experienced by trying various strategies. And I'm sticking by it


----------



## Thaddy

Nice post JonL, you don't have to be a believer in isolation but you can't deny the existence of vibrations, which you outlined nicely. Whether is does or doesn't affect the sound, I can't say. But I don't see anything wrong with trying out a few different isolation materials for the sake of learning what does and doesn't work.

 The way I see it, if I cover my bases fairly well (in regards to isolation, vibration dampening, power conditioning, and cables) then things will be fine. Although I don't believe in a lot of the "snake oil" hype, I don't think it's a black or white issue. So, my philosophy is that good quality/budget tweaks, conditioning, and cables will keep my wallet heavier and my ears happier (whether they know the difference or not).

 That's my story and I'm sticking to it


----------



## jumping jupiters

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Thaddy* 
_Just because many audio sites have sections dedicated to isolation does not mean it's a legit way to tweak and change the sound of your system.

 Do not turn this thread into a debate about which material sounds better. Personally, I think it's a bunch of bull****. If you don't like the way your system sounds, then get different speakers/CDP/amps etc... Either way, this thread is for budget audio racks, especially the Lack tables._

 


 if you re-read my post you will see that i was recommending he try different materials to see their effect...a point you seem to pick up as a recommendation in the post just above. in fact i wrote earlier about my budget rack as well...i like the ikea rack and i was mearly encouraging everyone to try cheap experiments.

 i wasn't trying to hijack the thread...just give some other budget ideas for trial...please continue on with your flip-flopping recommendations as witnessed in the quoted thread here and the post just above.

 cheers


----------



## Thaddy

Flip-flopping recommendations? I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean...

 I wasn't picking on your per se, I just didn't want to see this thread turn into a "which isolation material sound better" argument.

 I've got nothing against trying out new things, especially those dealing with tweaks that some might consider snake oil or uncommon. Sorry if I came off like I was attacking you, it wasn't my intention.


----------



## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Anyone know where to buy spikes for one of these in Canada?

 Thanks,

 Biggie.


----------



## firedog

Hi-

 Can anyone give me more information about the type of spikes used? I saw that some users used "plum bob" spikes, others used generic "speaker spikes".

 Thanks


----------



## LFF

Not a lack rack - but this is what I will be getting from Ikea for a rack:






 Amp will go on the floor, followed by preamp, CD player and my turntable at the very top. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really like the fact that it is made out of solid wood.

 EDIT:

 Here is the link if anyone is interested:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/70011793


----------



## IceClass

LFF, I think you will find that wholly inappropriate for a turntable on top.


----------



## Headphony

Interesting thread. I was using a Lack table as a hifi equipment rack for a few years. I had no idea that it was a more common usage for them. They really are sturdy, neat-looking, and cheap.


----------



## Jon L

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Headphony* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ They really are sturdy, neat-looking, and cheap._

 

Wow, way to bring back an old thread. The Lack is "really" sturdy for sure. I've been using mine for many years now, and it even survived a house move couple years back. I thought I lost it after it got soaked by water, but after some hair-dryer action, it's still doing well and most importantly, sounding great. This is my old Lack shelf using the wider version of same Ikea Lack, spikes under legs and bottom shelf also. That DIY-looking amp is First Watt F5..


----------



## LFF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LFF, I think you will find that wholly inappropriate for a turntable on top._

 

Yeah - I am not mounting it directly to the top. I will have an isolation platform on the top and then the turntable on top of the platform. Should work fine.


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LFF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah - I am not mounting it directly to the top. I will have an isolation platform on the top and then the turntable on top of the platform. Should work fine.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I looked at the same item for the same use minus the TT and found it horribly rickety.


----------



## ingwe

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *euclid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_this is the coffee table version, ideally id like to use 3. the base having no legs and then the first level tall enough to allow ventilation for monoblocks. edit: im doubting that will hold a 70lb tv actually




_

 

Anyone with a P500 _must _be awesome!


----------



## cyberspyder

Here's my project for the next several months (Cheaper than the Lack tables and more satisfying IMO, plus it looks better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ):





 Brendan


----------



## LFF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *IceClass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I looked at the same item for the same use minus the TT and found it horribly rickety.



_

 

The one I saw in the store was very solid, more so than the lack tables. 

 I guess it depends on who puts it together.


----------



## IceClass

Nice one Brendan. Looks very pleasant on the eye and quite solid too.

 What's the story behind it and what does it cost out at?


----------



## LFF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cyberspyder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here's my project for the next several months (Cheaper than the Lack tables and more satisfying IMO, plus it looks better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ):





 Brendan_

 

I built something similar out of MDF and it cost me over $100.00.

 If cheap is what you want - go for the lack racks.


----------



## IceClass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *LFF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The one I saw in the store was very solid, more so than the lack tables. 

 I guess it depends on who puts it together. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Use a lot of glue.


----------



## BobSaysHi

Bump, this thread is awesome.


----------



## fatcat28037

Ikea is an amazing place. Their media storage solutions are very cool and inexpensive.
   
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/search/?query=cd+storage&pageNumber=0


----------



## porky1911

Thaddy said:


> I just got back from Ikea and I purchased 3 of their Lack tables to make a nice budget audio stand. These have been mentioned many times before, but an official thread really doesn't exist, so I figured I'd make one to be used as a simple How-To guide and a reference for others seeking a low budget audio rack.
> 
> The Lack tables are incredible inexpensive, and I paid $41.69 for *three*. It's a fairly sturdy table, especially for the price. In the future I also plan on using some smaller carpet spikes or rubber feet to keep them from sliding, but at the moment the funds aren't available for them (I'm sort of in the middle of moving to Houston).
> 
> ...


To


----------

