# Singxer SA-1 / Balanced Amplifier Fully Discrete Class A -  beyond THX 888  ?!



## Muataz (Jan 4, 2022)

This is a new Headphone Amp/Preamp fully discrete resistor with superb measurement ( The cleanest ever ) ?!
At maximum output, SNR and DNR are *147db. *
When outputting 50mv at low gain, THD+N still has *-96db* @1khz A weighting 20-22khz.

More masurements on this link >  Measurements of Singxer SA-1 Headphone Amp(Pre Retail) | L7Audiolab

It can output
16Ω   10W
32Ω    5.5W
68Ω    3.1W
120Ω  2.0W
****************************************************************
*UPDATE:*
The Class A mode of the SA-1:

In Balanced 16 ohm load: under 500mw;
32 ohm load: under 1000mw;
68 ohm load: under 3000mw;
Load of more than 68 ohm : almost all the power is class A.
****************************************************************

It has Low-Z / Hi-Z  Headphone output impedance switch ( 0.7 Ohm to 11 Ohm )
2 Gains which can be switched from *the bottom* of the unit. ( You have to turn all 4 switches on the bottom)

The following is the *maximum input without distortion at the maximum volume*. no load：

low gain:    XLR 15.5VRMS,RCA 7.4V RMS;
high gain :  XLR 4.4VRMS,RCA 2.1VRMS.

When there is a load, it is about 10% lower.

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I got mine this week and I liked it so sooo much, I'm waiting for my other amps to come to compare it. I have DAC Aeon and Focal Clear pro to test it with.

I open this thread to get any feedback from anyone brought this amp, I have feeling this amp will be a big hit as it measure well better than THX amps and based on discrete design and can function as Preamp










I got mine this week and I liked it so sooo much, I'm waiting for my other amp to come to compare it but it is clearly .


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## Muataz (Feb 3, 2021)

*Manual:*
*http://7097607.s21i.faiusr.com/61/ABUIABA9GAAg3a3g-wUo4P3k9gY.pdf*

Internal picture:








Some Measurement from L7audiolab:

Singxer SA-1 XLRIO 5.2V No load.  Awt.






Dynamic range No weighting on the left and A weighting on the right :


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## mikechw

I also bought this.. Now replaced my Topping A90 with SA-1.
My chain:
Roon->HQPlayer->Topping D90->Singxer SA-1->2x Benchmark AHB2
Headphones tested:
Hifiman Ananda, Sennheiser HD650, Meze Classics99


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## Muataz (Jan 13, 2021)

mikechw said:


> I also bought this.. Now replaced my Topping A90 with SA-1.
> My chain:
> Roon->HQPlayer->Topping D90->Singxer SA-1->2x Benchmark AHB2
> Headphones tested:
> Hifiman Ananda, Sennheiser HD650, Meze Classics99



how you compare it to A90? 
Have you thought about DAC Singxer SDA-6 ? It seems better DAC with USB isolation and non-feedback preamp with good measurement


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## mikechw

Muataz said:


> how you compare it to A90 ?



It arrived last Friday.
I made some comments on 
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eadphone-amp-preview.17510/page-4#post-630454

Well, first impression is good.  I think sound quality is on par (may be better) with A90.  It has better bass control when I am using HD650.


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## Voxata

I've picked one up to demo, high hopes the pre performance is exemplary so I can move some gear around.

This is a really nice design with quality parts.


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## Muataz

Voxata said:


> I've picked one up to demo, high hopes the pre performance is exemplary so I can move some gear around.
> 
> This is a really nice design with quality parts.



Did you got it ? Any thought


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## Voxata

Arrives today, I'll need some time. I'll be testing it with HE-6 and in my 2ch setup. Unfortunately it looks like SE performance is not good, which my 2ch is RCA so conversion there will be bad so it's all down to headphone performance for me. This'll be compared to Jot2.


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## Muataz

Voxata said:


> Arrives today, I'll need some time. I'll be testing it with HE-6 and in my 2ch setup. Unfortunately it looks like SE performance is not good, which my 2ch is RCA so conversion there will be bad so it's all down to headphone performance for me. This'll be compared to Jot2.


SE performance even it is lower SNR but still better than many high product.

I prefer SE headphone output to my topping L30 for Focal headphone


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## Voxata (Jan 26, 2021)

I've given it a listen for a few hours and it's fantastic. I also ordered some jumpers for the DC cap bypass and will test that soon but as-is it's decent. The Jot2 has more treble energy however the SA-1 is definitely more even. The bass presentation on Jot2 is more inviting however, SA-1 is neutral and tight. Drives the HE6 just fine as well. I got a bit of listening fatigue though that seems to happen to me sometimes on hyper-measurement focused gear. Will give it a few more days of testing to see if it settles into my stack nicely. The amp seems to run warmer when not in use than when running headphones. It doesn't get hot which is nice, especially given the power output. It's less powerful than the Jot2 which IMO is a good thing. Jot2 is just through the roof.


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## Voxata

Tonight's session went well, no fatigue. Great amp! The class A of chip amps, though I'm unsure it's true class A due to low heat. It's not constant heat output. Single ended is low power for sure on my headphone, but still sounds clean enough. This amp is a home run!


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## Muataz

Voxata said:


> Tonight's session went well, no fatigue. Great amp! The class A of chip amps, though I'm unsure it's true class A due to low heat. It's not constant heat output. Single ended is low power for sure on my headphone, but still sounds clean enough. This amp is a home run!


At high output it will switch to Class AB


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## mikechw

With my HiFiman Ananda, I had mine on low gain mode.
The volume is near 4 o'clock all the time..


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## Muataz

Voxata said:


> Tonight's session went well, no fatigue. Great amp! The class A of chip amps, though I'm unsure it's true class A due to low heat. It's not constant heat output. Single ended is low power for sure on my headphone, but still sounds clean enough. This amp is a home run!



If you have HD660S try it, it may sound a lot better than iDSD BL ( as per your signature


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## mikechw

Muataz said:


> If you have HD660S try it, it may sound a lot better than iDSD BL ( as per your signature



My HD650 sound much better on SA-1


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## Kafé

mikechw said:


> It arrived last Friday.
> I made some comments on
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eadphone-amp-preview.17510/page-4#post-630454
> 
> Well, first impression is good.  I think sound quality is on par (may be better) with A90.  It has better bass control when I am using HD650.



Have you compared the high gain power between A90 and SA-1?


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## Voxata (Jan 27, 2021)

Muataz said:


> If you have HD660S try it, it may sound a lot better than iDSD BL ( as per your signature


I'm using HE6se, the 660S sounds great on the SA-1 as well. I am saying though, RCA in is not as good as BAL (I'm using Freya so the RCA/BAL is of equal SQ) and SE out on the amp is significantly underpowered compared to BAL. That said, this is an amp made to be run fully balanced. The SE is there for convenience. Bal in-out this amp is much preferred in my books.

Not welcomed is the warranty void if removed sticker on bottom screw holding the top lid.


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## Voxata

I just crossed the DC jumpers inside the unit. Yeah, wow. It sounds much better.. it's a huge leap over the Jot2 at this point. I'm curious what the risk is using those jumpers.


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## Muataz

Voxata said:


> I just crossed the DC jumpers inside the unit. Yeah, wow. It sounds much better.. it's a huge leap over the Jot2 at this point. I'm curious what the risk is using those jumpers.


Can you take picture for the jumper, I want to do it but want to make sure I don't cross things.


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## mikechw

http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-741745-1-1.html

(Its in chinese)


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## Voxata

Alright so, this puts the amp into DC couple mode. You have to ensure your dac/pre don't leak DC. Using a meter I measured my Freya S, flat 0 powered on with no music playing. Safe.


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## lexterminator

I currently have the Singxer SDA-6 Advanced version DAC and I love it. Very musical. I currently use it with the Violectric V100 amp along with Beyerdynamic T1.3 headphones. I have the SA-1 on order that should arrive soon. The SDA-6 DAC is my favorite so far over the Gustard A-18, Teac UD-505 and Violectric USB 24\192 card that I also own.


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## Voxata

Do yourself a favor, order this knob. Perfect fit. Stock knob is terrible.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TY3262...abc_Y7VTT9GTD8FS5F7G0BD3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


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## Roasty

I just placed an order for the sa-1 on drop. 
Looking forward to giving this a go. 
Intention is for use with Utopia, Stellia and GS3000e as my other amps have too much gain/power for these sensitive headphones.


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## Muataz

Roasty said:


> I just placed an order for the sa-1 on drop.
> Looking forward to giving this a go.
> Intention is for use with Utopia, Stellia and GS3000e as my other amps have too much gain/power for these sensitive headphones.


What DAC do you have ? and do you have the Susvara to try it on SA-1 !


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## Roasty

Muataz said:


> What DAC do you have ? and do you have the Susvara to try it on SA-1 !



I have the rockna wavelight. But will probably pair this with an okto dac8 stereo. Yes I have susvara. Will try the susvara with this amp and see how it goes.


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## Muataz

Roasty said:


> I have the rockna wavelight. But will probably pair this with an okto dac8 stereo. Yes I have susvara. Will try the susvara with this amp and see how it goes.


FYI this amp has high gain mode, but the switch on the bottom and there are 4 switches which you need to toggle them all to enable H Gain


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## Muataz

Manual:

http://7097607.s21i.faiusr.com/61/ABUIABA9GAAg3a3g-wUo4P3k9gY.pdf


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## VeeAndBobby

I received my Singxer SA-1 today from Drop.com. I'm using it with a Chord Qutest DAC and Meze Empyrean headphone. This is my first amp with an impedance switch (Hi-Z or Low-Z). Can anyone advise me on how to set this? The Empyrean's impedance is 32 ohms.  I found the User Handbook for download from the Singxer website. According to the manual, "The low-impedance output impedance is 1.4 ohms (balanced) and 0.7 ohms (single-ended); the high-impedance output impedance is 11.4 ohms (balanced) and 10.7 ohms (single-ended)."


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## Muataz

VeeAndBobby said:


> I received my Singxer SA-1 today from Drop.com. I'm using it with a Chord Qutest DAC and Meze Empyrean headphone. This is my first amp with an impedance switch (Hi-Z or Low-Z). Can anyone advise me on how to set this? The Empyrean's impedance is 32 ohms.  I found the User Handbook for download from the Singxer website. According to the manual, "The low-impedance output impedance is 1.4 ohms (balanced) and 0.7 ohms (single-ended); the high-impedance output impedance is 11.4 ohms (balanced) and 10.7 ohms (single-ended)."


Low-z for all low impedance up to 90+ohm 

More than 90ohm you may try High-z and see if the bass still tight or get back to Low-z


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## lexterminator

Received my SA-1 today. It's plugged in with Singxer SDA-6 DAC along with Nordost Tyr2 cables (power cord, XLR, USB) and testing with Beyerdynamic T1 3rd gen. Despite the T1s being 32ohm and 100db sensitivity, I have to use high gain on the SA-1 to drive the T1.3 adequately. I'm using the single-end cable so far, I'm awaiting the Beyerdynamic balanced cable that should arrive this week. Out of the box the sound signature is in line with the SDA-6, smooth, detailed and musical. Compared to the Violectric V100 headphone amp, the SA-1 is more musical and a bit smoother. Detail level is similar. Bass is deeper on SA-1. But so far soundstage and bass control is better on the V100. I will see if the SA-1 improves after a while. Overall it's a great bargain at $539 on Drop.


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## Muataz

lexterminator said:


> Received my SA-1 today. It's plugged in with Singxer SDA-6 DAC along with Nordost Tyr2 cables (power cord, XLR, USB) and testing with Beyerdynamic T1 3rd gen. Despite the T1s being 32ohm and 100db sensitivity, I have to use high gain on the SA-1 to drive the T1.3 adequately. I'm using the single-end cable so far, I'm awaiting the Beyerdynamic balanced cable that should arrive this week. Out of the box the sound signature is in line with the SDA-6, smooth, detailed and musical. Compared to the Violectric V100 headphone amp, the SA-1 is more musical and a bit smoother. Detail level is similar. Bass is deeper on SA-1. But so far soundstage and bass control is better on the V100. I will see if the SA-1 improves after a while. Overall it's a great bargain at $539 on Drop.


Balance cable will improve bass and soundstage separation much better. And good you start with se cable so you will notice the jump later


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## VeeAndBobby

lexterminator said:


> Received my SA-1 today. It's plugged in with Singxer SDA-6 DAC along with Nordost Tyr2 cables (power cord, XLR, USB) and testing with Beyerdynamic T1 3rd gen. Despite the T1s being 32ohm and 100db sensitivity, I have to use high gain on the SA-1 to drive the T1.3 adequately. I'm using the single-end cable so far, I'm awaiting the Beyerdynamic balanced cable that should arrive this week. Out of the box the sound signature is in line with the SDA-6, smooth, detailed and musical. Compared to the Violectric V100 headphone amp, the SA-1 is more musical and a bit smoother. Detail level is similar. Bass is deeper on SA-1. But so far soundstage and bass control is better on the V100. I will see if the SA-1 improves after a while. Overall it's a great bargain at $539 on Drop.


I am also very impressed with the SA-1 that I received yesterday from Drop. Where did you buy your Singxer SDA-6 DAC?


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## lexterminator

VeeAndBobby said:


> I am also very impressed with the SA-1 that I received yesterday from Drop. Where did you buy your Singxer SDA-6 DAC?


 I got the SDA-6 "advanced" version online from Magna Hifi. This is a keeper for sure.


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## lexterminator

I switched it back to low gain, on deep bass tracks the bass is tighter and better controlled on low gain with the 32ohm Beyerdynamic T1.3.


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## VeeAndBobby (Feb 6, 2021)

lexterminator said:


> I switched it back to low gain, on deep bass tracks the bass is tighter and better controlled on low gain with the 32ohm Beyerdynamic T1.3.


My first impression is that I prefer the SA-1 on low-gain with my Meze Empyrean and Ether 2, with plenty of power for either headphone. Since it's somewhat inconvenient to change those 4 switches, I'll probably just leave it on low-gain. The DAC I'm using is a Singxer SDA-2 (also from Drop), which is sounding very good, but I may order the SDA-6. I also have a Chord Qutest DAC, but its only output is not balanced. The SA-1 seems to sound best with balanced input.


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## Muataz

lexterminator said:


> I switched it back to low gain, on deep bass tracks the bass is tighter and better controlled on low gain with the 32ohm Beyerdynamic T1.3.


Feel free to turn the volume to max if you need so. It is not a car engine to worry about ;p


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## Muataz

VeeAndBobby said:


> My first impression is that I prefer the SA-1 on low-gain with my Meze Empyrean and Ether 2, with plenty of power for either headphone. Since it's somewhat inconvenient change those 4 switches, I'll probably just leave it on low-gain. The DAC I'm using is a Singxer SDA-2 (also from Drop), which is sounding very good, but I may order the SDA-6. I also have a Chord Qutest DAC, but its only output is not balanced. The SA-1 seems to sound best with balanced input.


For sure it sound better with balance headphone output but I think SE input maybe not critical for it. Can you test more with Qutest 3v mode


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## VeeAndBobby (Feb 6, 2021)

Muataz said:


> For sure it sound better with balance headphone output but I think SE input maybe not critical for it. Can you test more with Qutest 3v mode


OK, that's a clever idea. I've never before used the Qutest in 3v mode. I've just now set it for 3v output and connected to the RCA inputs on the SA-1. That makes it slightly louder than the XLR input, so it seems to sound better, but may be an illusion. My quick impression is that the 3v Qutest on RCA input now sounds better than the Singxer SDA-2 DAC on XLR input.  This will require extended listening. Thankfully I don't hear any adverse effects like clipping. Thanks for your suggestion!


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## Muataz

VeeAndBobby said:


> OK, that's a clever idea. I've never before used the Qutest in 3v mode. I've just now set it for 3v output and connected to the RCA inputs on the SA-1. That makes it slightly louder than the XLR input, so it seems to sound better, but may be an illusion. My quick impression is that the 3v Qutest on RCA input now sounds better than the Singxer SDA-2 DAC on XLR input.  This will require extended listening. Thankfully I don't hear any adverse effects like clipping. Thanks for your suggestion!


FYI, I feed SA-1 with 6.8v with XLR. No clipping


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## VeeAndBobby

lexterminator said:


> I got the SDA-6 "advanced" version online from Magna Hifi. This is a keeper for sure.


Thanks for the information. I'm now using my Chord Qutest DAC with the SA-1 and really liking the sound. At first, I was reluctant to use the Qutest because it only has RCA outputs. However, the Qutest indeed sounds way better with the SA-1 than the Singxer SDA-2 DAC on XLR input. Do you have any opinion on whether the Singxer SDA-6 Advanced would be an upgrade over the Qutest?


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## Muataz

@VeeAndBobby  How do you compare GS-X mini to SA-1 if you still have the mini ?


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## VeeAndBobby (Feb 10, 2021)

Muataz said:


> @VeeAndBobby  How do you compare GS-X mini to SA-1 if you still have the mini ?


Good question. Yes I still have the HeadAmp GS-X mini. I'm a bit surprised to find I actually prefer the SA-1, considering the price difference. They are both excellent. In comparison, the HeadAmp sounds just a bit dry. The SA-1 is a bit warmer with a very intimate, inviting sound. Vocals are amazing. It is easier to visualize singers and instruments. 
A caveat: It is possible I could change my mind with extended listening to the SA-1. At first, I liked the Topping A90, but began to realize it didn't sound quite right to me in the high frequencies.
For now, I'm liking the SA-1 a lot, with my Chord Qutest DAC, and Meze Empyrean.  The SA-1 is set to low-gain and low-Z. I've also used my Ether 2 and Shure SE846 with very good results with the SA-1.


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## lexterminator

VeeAndBobby said:


> Thanks for the information. I'm now using my Chord Qutest DAC with the SA-1 and really liking the sound. At first, I was reluctant to use the Qutest because it only has RCA outputs. However, the Qutest indeed sounds way better with the SA-1 than the Singxer SDA-2 DAC on XLR input. Do you have any opinion on whether the Singxer SDA-6 Advanced would be an upgrade over the Qutest?



I never had a chance to hear any Chord products yet (hopefully one day) nor the Singxer SDA-2. I'm guessing though that the SDA-6 even in its advanced version is slightly better than SDA-2. I would not think it's drastically better though. If you find the Qutest sounding way better than SDA-2 then I'm quite sure the Qutest will sound better than the SDA-6 in your setup. Honestly the biggest improvement on my side is the cable upgrade with Nordost Tyr2 all around (power, xlr, usb) especially the power cords but I don't want to start a cable debate here


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## VeeAndBobby (Feb 9, 2021)

lexterminator said:


> I never had a chance to hear any Chord products yet (hopefully one day) nor the Singxer SDA-2. I'm guessing though that the SDA-6 even in its advanced version is slightly better than SDA-2. I would not think it's drastically better though. If you find the Qutest sounding way better than SDA-2 then I'm quite sure the Qutest will sound better than the SDA-6 in your setup. Honestly the biggest improvement on my side is the cable upgrade with Nordost Tyr2 all around (power, xlr, usb) especially the power cords but I don't want to start a cable debate here


No debate needed, cables definitely make a difference, although I hesitate to spend that much. My interconnects between Qutest and SA-1 are 0.5M Straight Wire Virtuoso R; not a current model, I've had these for many years. They are also based on silver-plated high purity copper.


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## lexterminator (Feb 9, 2021)

So far I find that the USB cable makes less difference than the interconnect and less difference than the power cords.... but that's just me. I have received my Beyerdynamic XLR balanced cable for my T1.3 headphones. It makes a very nice difference in clarity and soundstage compared to single ended connection, which was darker and more congested.


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## VeeAndBobby

lexterminator said:


> So far I find that the USB cable makes less difference than the interconnect and less difference than the power cords.... but that's just me. I have received my Beyerdynamic XLR balanced cable for my T1.3 headphones. It makes a very nice difference in clarity and soundstage compared to single ended connection, which was darker and more congested.


That looks like a great-sounding system. I notice "44.1K" on the display. If you are running Windows 10, you can upscale the USB output via Windows Control Panel. I have mine set to 24 bit, 192000 Hz. It's in the advanced properties for your device.


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## lexterminator

VeeAndBobby said:


> That looks like a great-sounding system. I notice "44.1K" on the display. If you are running Windows 10, you can upscale the USB output via Windows Control Panel. I have mine set to 24 bit, 192000 Hz. It's in the advanced properties for your device.



Thanks for the info, I was listening to a Flac from a cd rip. With other dacs I found that upsampling was becoming softer and more mellow. I'll try with the SDA-6 if it improves the sound.


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## Muataz

VeeAndBobby said:


> That looks like a great-sounding system. I notice "44.1K" on the display. If you are running Windows 10, you can upscale the USB output via Windows Control Panel. I have mine set to 24 bit, 192000 Hz. It's in the advanced properties for your device.


This upsampling not perfect, I upsample with ROON or Hqplayer


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## joseG86

If any of you own both A90 and SA-1 did you really notice any difference? Like punchiness etc... Is it worth the "upgrade" from A90 to SA-1? I'm seriously thinking about getting new amp like Gustard H16 or this Singxer SA-1

Thanks in advance


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## Muataz

joseG86 said:


> If any of you own both A90 and SA-1 did you really notice any difference? Like punchiness etc... Is it worth the "upgrade" from A90 to SA-1? I'm seriously thinking about getting new amp like Gustard H16 or this Singxer SA-1
> 
> Thanks in advance


If you want to use it with balance, just get SA-1. Few people had SA-1 and A90 and they prefer SA-1. Other thing it is build better from design point of view


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## VeeAndBobby

joseG86 said:


> If any of you own both A90 and SA-1 did you really notice any difference? Like punchiness etc... Is it worth the "upgrade" from A90 to SA-1? I'm seriously thinking about getting new amp like Gustard H16 or this Singxer SA-1
> 
> Thanks in advance


Yes, I own Topping A90 and Singxer SA-1. I quit using the A90 as the high frequencies became annoying; strings in classical music didn't sound right. I really like the SA-1, and feel it outperforms its price. My review is posted at Drop.com.


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## spw1880

Hi guys, Hows the driving power on a high impedemce heaphone like the zmf. 300ohms, please share.

Thank you


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## VeeAndBobby

spw1880 said:


> Hi guys, Hows the driving power on a high impedemce heaphone like the zmf. 300ohms, please share.
> 
> Thank you


I don't have a high-impedance headphone, however the SA-1 actually has an impedance switch (Hi-Z / Low-Z), in addition to its Low-Gain / High-Gain switches, so it ought to be fine with high-impedance headphones.


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## spw1880

VeeAndBobby said:


> I don't have a high-impedance headphone, however the SA-1 actually has an impedance switch (Hi-Z / Low-Z), in addition to its Low-Gain / High-Gain switches, so it ought to be fine with high-impedance headphones.


Thanks. Its features seem rather eccentric from what i have been reading. do you think that a dac like schitt bifrost 2 will be a good match for it?


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## VeeAndBobby

spw1880 said:


> Thanks. Its features seem rather eccentric from what i have been reading. do you think that a dac like schitt bifrost 2 will be a good match for it?


Yes, I think a Bifrost 2 and SA-1 should work very well together.


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## ES_EF

spw1880 said:


> Hi guys, Hows the driving power on a high impedemce heaphone like the zmf. 300ohms, please share.
> 
> Thank you


ZMF Auteur sound amazing on this amp, tons of power on reserve and sound is ever so slightly warm but, great bass control and details

Also Thieaudio Monarch are heavenly. 4.4mm output, low Z / low gain absolutely zero noise 

this is from SA-1 Manual and hopefully it clears up the low / high Z differences

"The low-impedance output impedance is 1.4 ohms (balanced) and 0.7 ohms (single-ended); the high-impedance output impedance is 11.4 ohms (balanced) and 10.7 ohms (single-ended). This mode is only valid in the headamp mode. In the PRE output, the single-ended impedance is 22.5 ohms, and the balanced impedance is 45 ohms"


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## Random Lunatic

Has anyone in here had the chance to compare the SA-1 to either of the Liquid GoldX or Platinum amps? I've been considering one of those for a while, but apparently this amp shares some similarities?


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## VeeAndBobby

Random Lunatic said:


> Has anyone in here had the chance to compare the SA-1 to either of the Liquid GoldX or Platinum amps? I've been considering one of those for a while, but apparently this amp shares some similarities?


I haven't heard either of the Cavalli Audio amps you mentioned, but if considering that price range, you might consider the Burson Soloist 3X. Of the amps I now own, I would rank them in the following order. The Burson outclasses the others by a considerable margin, even though I really like the Singxer too.
1. Burson Soloist 3X
2. Singxer SA-1
3. HeadAmp GS-X Mini
4. Topping A90


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## Random Lunatic

VeeAndBobby said:


> I haven't heard either of the Cavalli Audio amps you mentioned, but if considering that price range, you might consider the Burson Soloist 3X. Of the amps I now own, I would rank them in the following order. The Burson outclasses the others by a considerable margin, even though I really like the Singxer too.
> 1. Burson Soloist 3X
> 2. Singxer SA-1
> 3. HeadAmp GS-X Mini
> 4. Topping A90


I’m somewhat hesitant about blind buying amps, since I’ve usually been disappointed with them, including an early Burson in the last - but haven’t heard that one specifically.
Ive heard the original Cavalli amps and liked them in part due to the added body/low end they gave fx. My HD800... which is why I was looking at the SA-1 and have been steering clear of the THX amps and Topping A90 since I suspect they’d be too bright or at best just boring straight wire with gain


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## Voxata

Muataz said:


> If you have HD660S try it, it may sound a lot better than iDSD BL ( as per your signature


Better yes, but I like the BL and 660S with my laptop and mobile  if I'm using SA-1 it's with HE-6se for the most part.


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## Voxata

Random Lunatic said:


> Has anyone in here had the chance to compare the SA-1 to either of the Liquid GoldX or Platinum amps? I've been considering one of those for a while, but apparently this amp shares some similarities?


Very different than LP. SA-1 is solid state and LP has tubes. The SA-1's bass is MUCH tighter and the amp is much quicker and more dynamic. LP is more euphoric and has looser bass that helps slam come across a bit more.


----------



## Random Lunatic

Voxata said:


> Very different than LP. SA-1 is solid state and LP has tubes. The SA-1's bass is MUCH tighter and the amp is much quicker and more dynamic. LP is more euphoric and has looser bass that helps slam come across a bit more.


The Liquid Gold is the one I’m leaning more towards too - since I’m generally not into tubes.


----------



## Muataz

lexterminator said:


> So far I find that the USB cable makes less difference than the interconnect and less difference than the power cords.... but that's just me. I have received my Beyerdynamic XLR balanced cable for my T1.3 headphones. It makes a very nice difference in clarity and soundstage compared to single ended connection, which was darker and more congested.



Hi, I see you have Gustard A18, how it's compare to SDA-6 ? and did you tried other headphone on SA-1


----------



## Muataz

VeeAndBobby said:


> I haven't heard either of the Cavalli Audio amps you mentioned, but if considering that price range, you might consider the Burson Soloist 3X. Of the amps I now own, I would rank them in the following order. The Burson outclasses the others by a considerable margin, even though I really like the Singxer too.
> 1. Burson Soloist 3X
> 2. Singxer SA-1
> 3. HeadAmp GS-X Mini
> 4. Topping A90


Can you elaborate more on Burson Soloist 3X performance compare to SA-1.


----------



## lexterminator

Muataz said:


> Hi, I see you have Gustard A18, how it's compare to SDA-6 ? and did you tried other headphone on SA-1


I just tried comparing the A18 against the SDA-6 on the SA-1. The SDA-6 is a much better match for the SA-1 as it exhibits the same sound signature, smooth, musical while being detailed. The A18 with the SA-1 sounds colder, more forward and less musical. Soundstage is smaller also. I have the SDA-6 Pro version with the Mundorf capacitors. I have only tried so far the AKT1P and T1.3 headphones on the SA-1, the T1.3 matches better the sound signature of the Singxer kit. I would be very curious to hear the Denafrips Pontus or Venus DACS with the Artemis headphone amp. I still have a Violectric V100 that I pair with the A18 DAC for a more neutral setup. In an ideal world for my preference I would like a bigger soundstage and better / faster bass control from the SA-1. But for the price zero complaint. I believe the Violectric V280/V281 would match great with the SDA-6. I would also be very curious to try something like the Schiit Bifrost or Gungnir against the SDA-6. I will post comments if I get a chance to try any of these. I have a Modi Multibit in a separate setup but it's not balanced and my better cables are XLR so I have not tried it against the SDA-6.


----------



## Hamlap

Just heard about this beautifull amp. Had my eye on the Gustard H16 for my ZMF Verite, but this amp looks amazing to.

Anyone that had the H16 and can compare ?


----------



## Lolito

This is the new flavour of the month in amps, the latest on the hype train. I hope miss April has the gain switch back on the front, off position in the center of the switch... But boy, miss march is a honey.


----------



## Garak

VeeAndBobby said:


> I haven't heard either of the Cavalli Audio amps you mentioned, but if considering that price range, you might consider the Burson Soloist 3X. Of the amps I now own, I would rank them in the following order. The Burson outclasses the others by a considerable margin, even though I really like the Singxer too.
> 1. Burson Soloist 3X
> 2. Singxer SA-1
> 3. HeadAmp GS-X Mini
> 4. Topping A90



I kind of expected the Soloist 3x to be above Singxer on a list given it's almost double the price, but seeing the GSX mini in 3rd is somewhat difficult to compute lol. GSX mini is at the top of my list right now and I'm hoping to find a cheaper alternative, with Soloist being one of those contenders. But your ranking is definitely the highest praise I've seen for it so far!


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## Muataz (Mar 9, 2021)

Garak said:


> I kind of expected the Soloist 3x to be above Singxer on a list given it's almost double the price, but seeing the GSX mini in 3rd is somewhat difficult to compute lol. GSX mini is at the top of my list right now and I'm hoping to find a cheaper alternative, with Soloist being one of those contenders. But your ranking is definitely the highest praise I've seen for it so far!


Price is not an indicate for a performance especially for a Chinese base company as the have lower cost.
If you want an amp try the SA-1 way cheaper and powerful so the risk is low.


----------



## Arniesb

Garak said:


> I kind of expected the Soloist 3x to be above Singxer on a list given it's almost double the price, but seeing the GSX mini in 3rd is somewhat difficult to compute lol. GSX mini is at the top of my list right now and I'm hoping to find a cheaper alternative, with Soloist being one of those contenders. But your ranking is definitely the highest praise I've seen for it so far!


People like different things. Personally i would never rate amps prowess based on sound signature, but only based on technicalities. You can always eq headphones or just get different ones.
Lots of people like amps with a lot distortion to compensate harshness in a system.


----------



## VielenDanke

I Just bought one of these AMPs. I won't get it until early April due to limited stock, but I'm hoping it brings some life to my Ether CXs.


----------



## Muataz

VielenDanke said:


> I Just bought one of these AMPs. I won't get it until early April due to limited stock, but I'm hoping it brings some life to my Ether CXs.


What DAC you have ? and you should use this amp balance.


----------



## VielenDanke

Muataz said:


> What DAC you have ? and you should use this amp balance.


I currently have a Soncoz LA-QXD1, which is balanced, but I was looking to get an Ares II to pair with it down the road.


----------



## Lolito

VielenDanke said:


> I Just bought one of these AMPs. I won't get it until early April due to limited stock, but I'm hoping it brings some life to my Ether CXs.


or early june mate, don't create expectations


----------



## VielenDanke

Lolito said:


> or early june mate, don't create expectations


I got an email from Apos saying they should get a new shipment by March 23rd. Early April was just easier to say than the exact date at the time. I'll try to dampen my expectations.


----------



## Lolito

I mention it because in the shop I will buy it the have the exact same dates posted for next stock, and I am already preparing for a delay... goes with the current times. Not sure if this amp will be actually really good or just another hyped thing... Looks promising. Not the cheapest, gain below quite weird if you ask me. The know is replaceable, so tht is a good thing. The pot is large. Jt2 was the other candidate, a bit cheaper for USA, not for EU, also this one seems to be a step higher, 4.4mm, full class A... Maybe schiit one looks better design than this one actually, blue led doesnt help. This one probably better built, more high range hifi cnc aluminium


----------



## Dopaminer

Like others here I am trying to decide between Gustard H16 and this SA-1. 
H16's r2r volume and remote are advantages, but the overall design of the Singxer is more appealing to me. 
They both seem like amazing-performing powerhouses with pre-amp capabilities.

I will be using the amp with Aryas and powered monitors...


----------



## VielenDanke

Dopaminer said:


> Like others here I am trying to decide between Gustard H16 and this SA-1.
> H16's r2r volume and remote are advantages, but the overall design of the Singxer is more appealing to me.
> They both seem like amazing-performing powerhouses with pre-amp capabilities.
> 
> I will be using the amp with Aryas and powered monitors...


Funny enough that was my decision to make as well. In the end I went with the Singxer because it was class A and I wanted to have a less clinical sound compared to my 789. I plan on selling my 789 after I get the Singxer SA-1


----------



## bithloman

has anyone with the sa1 compared it to the newer budget amps? such as the heresy or liquid spark? is this an upgrade? my heresy has 2.5 watts and im using the ananda which dont need more power. will i notice the upgrade? tame the highs a bit? thanks


----------



## Hamlap

VielenDanke said:


> Funny enough that was my decision to make as well. In the end I went with the Singxer because it was class A and I wanted to have a less clinical sound compared to my 789. I plan on selling my 789 after I get the Singxer SA-1


This might be a bit nooby, but still. What the difference between class A (Singxer) and the Gustard H16, in terms of sound?


----------



## Bruc3

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but this is a clear rip off of the design from Questyle. Check out the CMA 400i

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0035/5119/9345/products/mac_00075web_1024x1024.jpg?v=1536069566

It seems well priced though, I can give it that.

Wonder how the sound compares though? Hopefully someone happens to have this and a CMA400i could compare.


----------



## Dopaminer

VielenDanke said:


> Funny enough that was my decision to make as well. In the end I went with the Singxer because it was class A and I wanted to have a less clinical sound compared to my 789. I plan on selling my 789 after I get the Singxer SA-1


Your comment made me realize Gustard make no claims that the H16 is class A.  Now I am leaning even more heavily towards the SA-1! 
However, on Alie express it looks like the H16 is being discounted.... Probably because of Zeos' glowing Singxer review last week.


----------



## bithloman

Bruc3 said:


> Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but this is a clear rip off of the design from Questyle. Check out the CMA 400i
> 
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0035/5119/9345/products/mac_00075web_1024x1024.jpg?v=1536069566
> 
> ...


I mean the class a power section does look sort of similar. But the power supply and volume control are totally different. Also the CMA as a whole DAC section which I feel would complicate the whole design so even if it's similar they did a ton of their own engineering.


----------



## Bruc3

bithloman said:


> I mean the class a power section does look sort of similar. But the power supply and volume control are totally different. Also the CMA as a whole DAC section which I feel would complicate the whole design so even if it's similar they did a ton of their own engineering.



Ah ok, I was just referring to the aesthetics looking similar. 

Anyway, this singxer amp seems to perform well for its price so definitely a good alternative options for those who don't want to spend $1k+


----------



## VielenDanke

Hamlap said:


> This might be a bit nooby, but still. What the difference between class A (Singxer) and the Gustard H16, in terms of sound?


From what I have heard, Class A AMPS generally has a more warm sound to them compared to class D AMPS. I guess what you might notice is a more "organic" and pronounced midrange and lowrange with music compared to a class D AMP, like a 789. Class D generally sound more neutral, uncolored, and are more powerful. Surprisingly, the Singxer AMP can push a lot of watts into 32 ohms.


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## pankar0 (Mar 10, 2021)

I m on the market for a new amp...
Today I receive my new dac (Gustard X16) ..!!
My headphones is the Arya's and for now I feed them with idsd signature.
I m thinking to buy one of these amps..

Schiit jotunheim 2 (490€)
Singxer sa-1 (499€)
Gustard H16.. (350€)
The prices is for the Europe. 

I m trying to read every review for these amps also I m waiting to see more videos and comparisons for those amps.
I believe for my preference the right way is a class A amp.
I prefer the warmer side .
Any other suggestions..??? For my list.
My highest budget is 500€...
600-650$.
TIA.


----------



## Lolito

class A sounds nicer than class D. Class D makes you want to turn it of sooner than class A.


----------



## bithloman

pankar0 said:


> I m on the market for a new amp...
> Today I receive my new dac (Gustard X16) ..!!
> My headphones is the Arya's and for now I feed them with idsd signature.
> I m thinking to buy one of these amps..
> ...


liquid platinum, schiit lyr


----------



## pankar0

bithloman said:


> liquid platinum, schiit lyr


I don't want tube or hybrid amps... maybe if I have the budget go for the Feliks audio Euforia... 
I don't believe that the tubes amplifiers suits well with the Hifiman Arya's.


----------



## VielenDanke

pankar0 said:


> I m on the market for a new amp...
> Today I receive my new dac (Gustard X16) ..!!
> My headphones is the Arya's and for now I feed them with idsd signature.
> I m thinking to buy one of these amps..
> ...


The answer to what AMP you should get depends on the headphones you currently own. The Singxer and the Schiit can push about 6 watts into 32 ohms, I think 6.4W for the Singxer and about 6W for the Schiit. What headphones do you own?


----------



## bithloman

pankar0 said:


> I don't want tube or hybrid amps... maybe if I have the budget go for the Feliks audio Euforia...
> I don't believe that the tubes amplifiers suits well with the Hifiman Arya's.


yes pure tube is bad for arya but i think tube hybrid or class A is best for hifiman to add something to the high freq and mids. other wise they can sound slightly clinical


----------



## pankar0

VielenDanke said:


> The answer to what AMP you should get depends on the headphones you currently own. The Singxer and the Schiit can push about 6 watts into 32 ohms, I think 6.4W for the Singxer and about 6W for the Schiit. What headphones do you own?


Arya's Hifiman


----------



## VielenDanke

pankar0 said:


> Arya's Hifiman


My bad if you already stated. Recently, Joshua Valor paired the H16 with the Arya in a complete headphone build. I haven't heard the pairing myself, but it goes to show that someone with experience has stated the H16 can adequately drive the Aryas. If you trust Joshua's word/like him as a reviewer. I'm pretty sure you can't go wrong with any of these AMPS. It's just a matter of how much you want to spend/physical appearance.


----------



## Dopaminer

pankar0 said:


> I m on the market for a new amp...
> Today I receive my new dac (Gustard X16) ..!!
> My headphones is the Arya's and for now I feed them with idsd signature.
> I m thinking to buy one of these amps..
> ...


We're on the same path - Arya plus Singxer SA-1, Gustard H16. I am also considering the Flux Lab FA-12 ($750usd)
About the Jotuneheim 2 - that was on my list but this review put me off it. From 10:32 he talks about how the amp is basically overpowered, and with all the HP he tried on it, he never got past 11 o'clock or around 25% of the volume range. 
I want to be able to use more of the amp than that. So maybe the Singxer, like the Jot 2, is too powerful for the Arya...


----------



## wazzupi

Dopaminer said:


> We're on the same path - Arya plus Singxer SA-1, Gustard H16. I am also considering the Flux Lab FA-12 ($750usd)
> About the Jotuneheim 2 - that was on my list but this review put me off it. From 10:32 he talks about how the amp is basically overpowered, and with all the HP he tried on it, he never got past 11 o'clock or around 25% of the volume range.
> I want to be able to use more of the amp than that. So maybe the Singxer, like the Jot 2, is too powerful for the Arya...


?!? Singxer has more power than the jotunheim


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## Dopaminer (Mar 10, 2021)

wazzupi said:


> ?!? Singxer has more power than the jotunheim


The figures I'm seeing are

32Ω: 6480mW for SA-1 from Shenzen audio product page, but 32Ω:5500mW from this page

32Ω: 6000mW for Jot 2 
and

32Ω: 3200mW for H16


----------



## wazzupi

any jotunheim 2 vs SA-1 comparisons ?


----------



## Lolito

Dopaminer said:


> We're on the same path - Arya plus Singxer SA-1, Gustard H16. I am also considering the Flux Lab FA-12 ($750usd)
> About the Jotuneheim 2 - that was on my list but this review put me off it. From 10:32 he talks about how the amp is basically overpowered, and with all the HP he tried on it, he never got past 11 o'clock or around 25% of the volume range.
> I want to be able to use more of the amp than that. So maybe the Singxer, like the Jot 2, is too powerful for the Arya...


You made the wrong conclusion. It is not too powerful, it is lacking a third gain stage, a lower one.


----------



## Random Lunatic

Lolito said:


> class A sounds nicer than class D. Class D makes you want to turn it of sooner than class A.


Opposite for me, if we're generalising.
class A sounds muffled and soft. Class D sounds precise and controlled.


----------



## Contrails (Mar 11, 2021)

Anyway, I have just put an order through for the SA-1.  Let's see/hear what the hype is about.


----------



## wazzupi (Mar 11, 2021)

Contrails said:


> Anyway, I have just put an order through for the SA-1.  Let's see/hear what the hype is about.


you shouldn't buy the SA-1 Z reviewed it and loves it !


----------



## Contrails (Mar 10, 2021)

@wazzupi I bought it because first, measurements.  Second, I own a SU-1 USB bridge and I was very happy with the sound and the build quality.  Third - that Volume pot. 

Oh, I bought the Metrum Flint DAC two as well.  I owned a Metrum Musette years ago and a Holo Spring DAC lvl 3 - I am a sucker for a good R2R DAC.


----------



## Lolito (Mar 11, 2021)

Random Lunatic said:


> Opposite for me, if we're generalising.
> class A sounds muffled and soft. Class D sounds precise and controlled.


it really depends, each category can be had in very very different implementations. I n my speakers system, all active, tweeters use class A, woofers both class D, subwoofer class D. So softness for the twitter, power and precision for the lows... perfect combo. That being said, and back to headphone amps... I do not have that much experience, but most higher range amps are class A because that is what people prefer, it allows less ear fatigue for most people, longer listening sessions. That is my understanding, and that is what I want more in my systems; that I wanted to hear 20 minutes, but was so good I lost 2 hours.


----------



## wazzupi

Contrails said:


> @wazzupi I bought it because first, measurements.  Second, I own a SU-1 USB bridge and I was very happy with the sound and the build quality.  Third - that Volume pot.
> 
> Oh, I bought the Metrum Flint DAC two as well.  I owned a Metrum Musette years ago and a Holo Spring DAC lvl 3 - I am a sucker for a good R2R DAC.


i was joking


----------



## Contrails

wazzupi said:


> i was joking


No worries mate. Unfortunately, a lot of jokes go over my head due to lack of face to face communication.


----------



## shinewu

I have this amp. And it can drive from IEMs to Hifiman HE6SE. Highly recommended.

The overall sound is a bit warm. But it fits Hifiman's slightly bright tuning very well!


----------



## Contrails (Mar 11, 2021)

shinewu said:


> I have this amp. And it can drive from IEMs to Hifiman HE6SE. Highly recommended.
> 
> The overall sound is a bit warm. But it fits Hifiman's slightly bright tuning very well!


Could you compare this to another amp? Is it as warm as a V200/280?

And is the Treble rolled off or Bass is boosted?


----------



## Kafé

shinewu said:


> I have this amp. And it can drive from IEMs to Hifiman HE6SE. Highly recommended.
> 
> The overall sound is a bit warm. But it fits Hifiman's slightly bright tuning very well!


Thank you Shinewu for this feedback.

I look forward to listening comments from SA-1 and Arya


----------



## Hamlap

VielenDanke said:


> From what I have heard, Class A AMPS generally has a more warm sound to them compared to class D AMPS. I guess what you might notice is a more "organic" and pronounced midrange and lowrange with music compared to a class D AMP, like a 789. Class D generally sound more neutral, uncolored, and are more powerful. Surprisingly, the Singxer AMP can push a lot of watts into 32 ohms.


Thanks! Seems like Class A is a great match for my Verite Closed.


----------



## AxelCloris

After receiving some reports we've removed a number of posts that were off-topic from the thread. Thank you to everyone who kept the conversation focused on the SA-1, we appreciate it.


----------



## Dopaminer

Kafé said:


> I look forward to listening comments from SA-1 and Arya


I second this! 
My Arya arrives in 3 days and want to choose an amplifier soon. 
Actually, any impressions would be welcome.


----------



## Lolito

I would say, the gustard is very good on paper for a class D amp, with remote for analog, stepped volume, a display... Maybe best one in class D? depends for who. Some may not like that knob really...

Then Jot2 and Singxer are class A, A-A/B for jot 2, singxer it is supposed to be full class A i think? Both great units. 200% jot2 in USA. For europeans, same price really... unless you switch gain often, singxer is supposed to sound better overall... I woner if the gain or resistance switch affect the preamped outputs in XLR or RCA.


----------



## arar (Mar 14, 2021)

VielenDanke said:


> From what I have heard, Class A AMPS generally has a more warm sound to them compared to class D AMPS. I guess what you might notice is a more "organic" and pronounced midrange and lowrange with music compared to a class D AMP, like a 789. Class D generally sound more neutral, uncolored, and are more powerful. Surprisingly, the Singxer AMP can push a lot of watts into 32 ohms.



Starting to sound like I should be looking at Class A amps too, then, as an upgrade from my kinda boring sounding Schiit Magni 3. I guess my headphones already lean towards warm/bassy quite a bit (HD58X, Meze 99C, Aeolus coming "soon") so I suppose there's always a risk of going too warm, but.. I dunno, I feel like I might love the "too warm" sound too. I'm also thinking the Aeolus + universe suede pads + a Class A amp might be a wild combo.

Making an actual purchase decision is going to be hard, though. I'm currently between this, the Flux Lab FA-12S and RebelAmp, all pretty much exactly the same price.


----------



## Arniesb

arar said:


> Starting to sound like I should be looking at Class A amps too, then, as an upgrade from my kinda boring sounding Schiit Magni 3. I guess my headphones already lean towards warm/bassy quite a bit (HD58X, Meze 99C, Aeolus coming "soon") so I suppose there's always a risk of going too warm, but.. I dunno, I feel like I might love the "too warm" sound too. I'm also thinking the Aeolus + universe suede pads + a Class A amp might be a wild combo.
> 
> Making an actual purchase decision is going to be hard, though. I'm currently between this, the Flux Lab FA-12S and RebelAmp, all pretty much exactly the same price.


Warm amps pair extremely well with transparent, neutral dacs.
Personally i like neutral dacs like sabre ones with warm amps.
 If you aim for more transparent amp you can still add some warmth with copper cables.
Utopia users had plenty of succes with danacables copper cable for example.


----------



## lexterminator

Contrails said:


> Could you compare this to another amp? Is it as warm as a V200/280?
> 
> And is the Treble rolled off or Bass is boosted?


SA-1 is not as warm as V200. I sold my V200 because the SA-1 is more musical and not as warm... especially when using the balanced input on the SA-1, it sounds more opened, detailed and netural. It sounds great, I really really like that sound signature. V200 advantage was the bass control and a bit wider soundstage. SA-1 bass control is pretty good and soundstage is deeper and fairly wide. I have the SA-1 paired with the SDA-6 dac (advanced version) and they are really made for each other sound wise. I have another setup that is more neutral (Violectric V100 paired with Gustard A18 dac) and while it sounds pretty good it is kind of dry and lifeless compared to SA-1+SDA-6 combo. I was tempted at some point to shoot for V280 or the new V550 prior to discover Singxer but I will probably sell the V100+A18 and get something in the "musical" sound signature like the Denafrips Pontus+Atermis combo and keep SA-1+SDA-6 for the second system... unless Singxer comes up with a more upscale headphone amp. Also keeping an eye on upcoming reviews of the Mcintosh MHA200.


----------



## arar

Arniesb said:


> Warm amps pair extremely well with transparent, neutral dacs.
> Personally i like neutral dacs like sabre ones with warm amps.
> If you aim for more transparent amp you can still add some warmth with copper cables.
> Utopia users had plenty of succes with danacables copper cable for example.



I have a Topping D10 and honestly have no idea what it's supposed to sound like. Neutral, I guess? I admittedly have very little experience with DACs in general, but I sort of buy into the school of thought that DACs are "supposed" to be completely invisible, that all they're supposed to do is change the bits into waves and not color the sound in any way and when you want to color your sound, the primary way is the headphones (or speakers) and the secondary, optional way is the amp.

And speaking of that, I'm not seeing a LOT on the SA-1, but everything I am is making me extremely excited. The post above this one, Z's recent video (I don't like him and I doubt he's super well regarded here, but his hype can be infectious), all make the SA-1 sound like a fantastic choice of amp if you're looking for something to make everything sound more pleasing. It also seems to offer by far the most options of the three I mentioned in my earlier post, with different outputs, the high Z/low Z switch, etc. I think I'm gonna change my plans a bit and start saving up for this.


----------



## bithloman

arar said:


> I have a Topping D10 and honestly have no idea what it's supposed to sound like. Neutral, I guess? I admittedly have very little experience with DACs in general, but I sort of buy into the school of thought that DACs are "supposed" to be completely invisible, that all they're supposed to do is change the bits into waves and not color the sound in any way and when you want to color your sound, the primary way is the headphones (or speakers) and the secondary, optional way is the amp.
> 
> And speaking of that, I'm not seeing a LOT on the SA-1, but everything I am is making me extremely excited. The post above this one, Z's recent video (I don't like him and I doubt he's super well regarded here, but his hype can be infectious), all make the SA-1 sound like a fantastic choice of amp if you're looking for something to make everything sound more pleasing. It also seems to offer by far the most options of the three I mentioned in my earlier post, with different outputs, the high Z/low Z switch, etc. I think I'm gonna change my plans a bit and start saving up for this.


well you arent wrong however a dac is supposed to be more flat and less invisible, depending on the price and taste. the d10 is transparent but it colors the sound in other ways. such as sounding more sterile. that has nothing to do with its measurements its just something that has been proven in blind tests. engineering is required to make things sound different without changing the actual freq curve itself such as soundstage imaging or sparkle. this is done by a combination of parts and modulations and harminics that different companies use to design. companies that focus on numbers tend to be the cheapest to make because they just copy the specs from the chip manufacturer and make everything simple therefore cheaper. it tends to sound stale but clean. same with amplifiers and even speakers in a way . the reason people like class A is because it has more engineering and more parts interaction and can therefore sound different and generally more rich but can be the opposite depending on parts. even amps that measure literally identically like the SMSL SH9 & SP400 which The Next Best Thing Studio showed in a blind test that you can hear a difference let alone with a custom class A. bits are not just bits , and watts are not just watts. though people that sell basic and cheap products that measure just fine would tell you otherwise. "its transparent" yeah so it a good tube amp. but it also grabs MORE details in the time domain and the spacial domain. so experiment and enjoy i have heard the sa1 does great but i dont think it is "warm " like you are thinking it is. less cold would be a better word than "warm" i know confusing but try it out. Z is not reputable watch for pure entertainment.


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## arar (Mar 15, 2021)

bithloman said:


> so experiment and enjoy i have heard the sa1 does great but i dont think it is "warm " like you are thinking it is. less cold would be a better word than "warm" i know confusing but try it out.


That does seem to be the case! Specially with lex's post a bit earlier, and being more than just "warm" (or less cold, as you put it) excites me greatly. I'm thinking I'll get this, the Aeolus and a DIY tube amp kit this spring and later in the year look into upgrading from my D10, too, but for now, for all its sterility, it'll have to do.



> Z is not reputable watch for pure entertainment.


I'd rather not watch him at all to be honest, but nobody else is talking about the SA-1! (Well, other than this utterly bizarre video where someone compares it to the iFi Zen Can without actually owning or having ever heard the SA-1)


----------



## Muataz

arar said:


> I have a Topping D10 and honestly have no idea what it's supposed to sound like. Neutral, I guess? I admittedly have very little experience with DACs in general, but I sort of buy into the school of thought that DACs are "supposed" to be completely invisible, that all they're supposed to do is change the bits into waves and not color the sound in any way and when you want to color your sound, the primary way is the headphones (or speakers) and the secondary, optional way is the amp.
> 
> And speaking of that, I'm not seeing a LOT on the SA-1, but everything I am is making me extremely excited. The post above this one, Z's recent video (I don't like him and I doubt he's super well regarded here, but his hype can be infectious), all make the SA-1 sound like a fantastic choice of amp if you're looking for something to make everything sound more pleasing. It also seems to offer by far the most options of the three I mentioned in my earlier post, with different outputs, the high Z/low Z switch, etc. I think I'm gonna change my plans a bit and start saving up for this.


D10 will be good for SA-1. Maybe better with DAC has XLRs. However, the better investment to get a great amp like SA-1.


----------



## Lolito

Can any of the owners comment on:

- Gain change, from low gain to high gain, changes the pre amp output volumen, or the pre amped volume is never affected by the gain switch?
- What is the knob travel from low gain with hd6XX? from 7 to 12, or how much?

Thanks so much. Waiting for it to be in stock to order one.


----------



## Random Lunatic

Lolito said:


> Thanks so much. Waiting for it to be in stock to order one.


I was also just about ready to get one and then realized its out of stock - either its way more popular than the amount of reviews would suggest, or they just didn't make many....


----------



## bithloman

Random Lunatic said:


> I was also just about ready to get one and then realized its out of stock - either its way more popular than the amount of reviews would suggest, or they just didn't make many....


did you check all the websites? there was like 3 major ones selling it.


----------



## Lolito

it is out of stock world wide, all shops waiting for them. End of march or april is the expected dates to have more stock, initially, we will see. Some shops might have some left, or just charge you money to have you waiting... don't buy til april, or until more reviews come out.


----------



## Random Lunatic

bithloman said:


> did you check all the websites? there was like 3 major ones selling it.


All the major ones in Europe I could find, yea, they all say they're expecting restock at the end of the month basically.


----------



## Habas1

Does anyone know yet what is the output power on the Low Gain? (either Balanced or SE)


----------



## Muataz

Habas1 said:


> Does anyone know yet what is the output power on the Low Gain? (either Balanced or SE)


It is depends on the input voltage from your DAC.

You can get all the power if you give at least 12v which not possible.


----------



## Habas1

Muataz said:


> It is depends on the input voltage from your DAC.
> 
> You can get all the power if you give at least 12v which not possible.


Oh, I see.
I do have RME ADI-2, which I believe can do 6.9 volts. Is there some way to calculate this to get the output power of amplifier in low gain?


----------



## Muataz

Habas1 said:


> Oh, I see.
> I do have RME ADI-2, which I believe can do 6.9 volts. Is there some way to calculate this to get the output power of amplifier in low gain?


I asked the product manager in email. I hope he replay correctly 
Last I asked and he replied something else:

SA-1 headphone amplifier gains:
1. Single-ended input, single-ended output: low gain is 0db, high gain is 11db;
2. Single-ended input, balanced output: low gain is 6db, high gain is 17db;
3. Balanced input, single-ended output: low gain is -6db, high gain is 5db;
4. Balanced input, balanced output: low gain is 0db, high gain is 11db;


----------



## JGA007

I ordered one from Drop.  So far the shipping has been delayed.  They were suppose to ship on March 10th.  I can hardly wait.


----------



## Muataz (Mar 18, 2021)

The following is the *maximum input without distortion at the maximum volume*. no load：

low gain: XLR 15.5VRMS,RCA 7.4V RMS;
high gain : XLR 4.4VRMS,RCA 2.1VRMS.

   When there is a load, it is about 10% lower.


----------



## Muataz

Habas1 said:


> Oh, I see.
> I do have RME ADI-2, which I believe can do 6.9 volts. Is there some way to calculate this to get the output power of amplifier in low gain?


low gain: XLR 15.5VRMS,RCA 7.4V RMS;
high gain : XLR 4.4VRMS,RCA 2.1VRMS.


----------



## tommo21

Hi. I'm a long time member but far between my posts. Generelly lurking and reading other members postings before I spam with same question again and again. But here I might med doing this anyway. 30 years of hifi obsession with plenty of stuff passed through, but never really got going with the world of head-fi.

I need advice on selecting a good amp for headphones and pre-amp for powered speakers(balanced). I have a list of three amps that I am interested in.

Singxer SA-1
Topping A90
Jotunheim 2

I live in Norway and due to shipping cost, unit cost and tax duties, these three all cost about the same for us here in Norway when importing them ourselves.

You can see my equipment so far in my signature I think. Hd560s and X3 will be run balanced. (both are new to me and I haven't much experience with them yet. Looking to expand and try other things in the future,

My preferences in sound: 

I like detail, and am usually not bothered about so called treble peaky headphones like Beyerdynamics DT1990 and T90, having had both before. 
I also kinda prefer sound depth over ultra wide soundfield. I dislike recessed mids, but also don't like pushed forward mids. If I have to commit to something it would be fairly detailed neutral/even sound from the top through the mids with a little hint...possibly just 1db...in the bass region. I also don't like overly warm sound. Have had my time with tubes(expensive ones as well), but the warm "fuzz" don't do anything for me.

I chose this thread  because I think Singxer SA-1 might be closest to what I'm looking for after reading some of you guys experience with it.

I must also note that I like for speakers and headphones to show their character...not necessarily be colored(too much) by the equipment before in the chain. I like for them to show of their strenghts and weaknesses. This might make me a so-called "reviewer" instead of enjoying the music. I'm trying more and more to enjoy music rather than changing equipment all the time.

I'm a bit confused and really undecided of which amp to go for. I want something that kinda is an allrounder that don't need to be best at everything, but can work for multiple uses and headphones. I use the Kali Audio IN-5 as my powered desk-speakers. (Might have read that the SA-1 could have the better pre-amp over A90?)

As I have written this it might be clearer to me that the Jot 2 is not such a good deal as it will cost nearer to $600 when shipping and taxes have been paid. It would for me probably be the most expensive one of these.

So.....SA-1 or A90??? Any help will be apreciated.

Oh....by the way....I do like to read measurements and graphs, but how it sounds trumps measurements for me. But if it has both.....😂


----------



## Habas1

Muataz said:


> The following is the *maximum input without distortion at the maximum volume*. no load：
> 
> low gain: XLR 15.5VRMS,RCA 7.4V RMS;
> high gain : XLR 4.4VRMS,RCA 2.1VRMS.
> ...



When I see lower VRMS on a high gain, what do you mean by that? Does it means that on a high gain above 4.4VRMS there is some distortion? or this 4.4VRMS is on top of 15.5VRMS?


----------



## Habas1 (Mar 18, 2021)

tommo21 said:


> Hi. I'm a long time member but far between my posts. Generelly lurking and reading other members postings before I spam with same question again and again. But here I might med doing this anyway. 30 years of hifi obsession with plenty of stuff passed through, but never really got going with the world of head-fi.
> 
> I need advice on selecting a good amp for headphones and pre-amp for powered speakers(balanced). I have a list of three amps that I am interested in.
> 
> ...



Hi, I'm pretty sure others can give you more details, but I did a lot of researching those amps I can say that the general consensus for those 2 amps were, that A90 has rather very linear approach, where as SA-1 has warmer undertone (slightly more musical?).
From my perspective, I am definitely more interested in SA-1 due to that it has a warmer signature ("fun" session listening) than A90 and its linear approach.

In regards of measurements, if using Balanced output (Since SE output for SA-1 is possibly not that good), they both win. Possibly SA-1 on the balanced output have even better measurements, but on that level - beyond A90 measurements (SINAD above 120db) its just getting irrelevant and inaudible .

My personal decision is now coming to SA-1 or Burson Soloist 3x, which is of course way more expensive, but it also has some weird quirks with volume inconsistencies and some noise on high gain and even it seems on a mid gain, and also some altogether noise issues with some of those Omps that are included, so not sure if this price jump is worth it (if money counts).


----------



## bithloman

tommo21 said:


> Hi. I'm a long time member but far between my posts. Generelly lurking and reading other members postings before I spam with same question again and again. But here I might med doing this anyway. 30 years of hifi obsession with plenty of stuff passed through, but never really got going with the world of head-fi.
> 
> I need advice on selecting a good amp for headphones and pre-amp for powered speakers(balanced). I have a list of three amps that I am interested in.
> 
> ...


Id say if they are all the same price get the SA-1 and if not most people are prefering the JOT 2 over the a90


----------



## Muataz

Habas1 said:


> When I see lower VRMS on a high gain, what do you mean by that? Does it means that on a high gain above 4.4VRMS there is some distortion? or this 4.4VRMS is on top of 15.5VRMS?


With High Gain, your DAC need to output 4.4V from XLR to get the spec full power.
In low Gain you can get the spec full power but your DAC has to output 15.5 V XLR which is difficult as most DACs can't.

So what if you feed more than 4.4v into High gain, then you can't reach knob max volume as it will clip before max.


----------



## Muataz

tommo21 said:


> Hi. I'm a long time member but far between my posts. Generelly lurking and reading other members postings before I spam with same question again and again. But here I might med doing this anyway. 30 years of hifi obsession with plenty of stuff passed through, but never really got going with the world of head-fi.
> 
> I need advice on selecting a good amp for headphones and pre-amp for powered speakers(balanced). I have a list of three amps that I am interested in.
> 
> ...


I see you have Smsl M500 like mine, so just get SA-1 as it shine and push dynamic headphones very well.
For the preamp, I don't have a setup to test but a friend of mine is trying my amp as preamp and I will get his impression later but I don't see any reason why it will not perform well.


----------



## godmax

tommo21 said:


> So.....SA-1 or A90??? Any help will be apreciated.
> 
> Oh....by the way....I do like to read measurements and graphs, but how it sounds trumps measurements for me. But if it has both.....


Since the SA-1 already has been measured and the SINAD is basically on the same level (A90 121dB@4.0V vs.  SA-1 122dB@4.2V), I would go with the SA-1 (all 3 mentioned models are not fully class A anyway). I am tempted myself, even I got enough headphone amplifiers already.


Habas1 said:


> In regards of measurements, if using Balanced output (Since SE output for SA-1 is possibly not that good), they both win. Possibly SA-1 on the balanced output have even better measurements, but on that level - beyond A90 measurements (SINAD above 120db) its just getting irrelevant and inaudible .
> 
> My personal decision is now coming to SA-1 or Burson Soloist 3x, which is of course way more expensive, but it also has some weird quirks with volume inconsistencies and some noise on high gain and even it seems on a mid gain, and also some altogether noise issues with some of those Omps that are included, so not sure if this price jump is worth it (if money counts).


Even with all it quirks the Soloist 3X is a great headphone amplifier, I will still keep him even I am tempted to order the SA-1 too.


----------



## Lolito

godmax said:


> Since the SA-1 already has been measured and the SINAD is basically on the same level (A90 121dB@4.0V vs.  SA-1 122dB@4.2V), I would go with the SA-1 (all 3 mentioned models are not fully class A anyway). I am tempted myself, even I got enough headphone amplifiers already.
> 
> Even with all it quirks the Soloist 3X is a great headphone amplifier, I will still keep him even I am tempted to order the SA-1 too.


what dac: denafrips are 2, burson or RME.

And don't say it depends please, choose one and say why please. thank you so much.



tommo21 said:


> Hi. I'm a long time member but far between my posts. Generelly lurking and reading other members postings before I spam with same question again and again. But here I might med doing this anyway. 30 years of hifi obsession with plenty of stuff passed through, but never really got going with the world of head-fi.
> 
> I need advice on selecting a good amp for headphones and pre-amp for powered speakers(balanced). I have a list of three amps that I am interested in.
> 
> ...



In europe, A90 or the singxer. Singxer is new, but if you wait a bit of time people will have found its caveats and quirks. Jot2, great device, great price in USA and great 5 years warranty, but in Europe, you don't want to have to return that thing to USA, and the shipping costs from USA to Europe have sky rocketet in the last years, not worth it at all. Wait until there is stock in Europe of jot2 or buy any other one. A90 is too analytical, Singxer is the only option we have really. I´m in the exact same position, but to be honest, I think each one of these things always have flaws, better wait until they are shown. or buy the singxer directly when there is stock. I will do that I think, just buy one when it's available and cry later.


----------



## Habas1

Muataz said:


> With High Gain, your DAC need to output 4.4V from XLR to get the spec full power.
> In low Gain you can get the spec full power but your DAC has to output 15.5 V XLR which is difficult as most DACs can't.
> 
> So what if you feed more than 4.4v into High gain, then you can't reach knob max volume as it will clip before max.



Does such mathematics work? If low gain needs 15.5V for full power, so then if it receives 7.75V - the amp would just give the half of the power that it is stated in the specs? half of these mW?
6480mW @ 32Ω
2000mW @ 120Ω
380mW @ 600Ω


----------



## Habas1

godmax said:


> Since the SA-1 already has been measured and the SINAD is basically on the same level (A90 121dB@4.0V vs.  SA-1 122dB@4.2V), I would go with the SA-1 (all 3 mentioned models are not fully class A anyway). I am tempted myself, even I got enough headphone amplifiers already.
> 
> Even with all it quirks the Soloist 3X is a great headphone amplifier, I will still keep him even I am tempted to order the SA-1 too.


 I would be very interested to hear the comparison between SA-1 and Soloist 3x.


----------



## Mister Pig

I use a Singxer USB/SPDIF converter in the main system, they do build some very nice electronics. I bet the headphone amp is a gem.


----------



## godmax

Lolito said:


> what dac: denafrips are 2, burson or RME.
> 
> And don't say it depends please, choose one and say why please. thank you so much.


At once sire! Overall I would pick the Ares II, as I have to pick one 😁 (good USB interface, impression of a slightly expanded soundstage). Together with the Soloist I use the Composer 3X, the RME with the V281. From my experience the DAC has the smallest impact on overall sound performance (but there different opinions on this topic).


Habas1 said:


> I would be very interested to hear the comparison between SA-1 and Soloist 3x.


Yea, would be nice to know, but cannot tell yet. But I expect some difference, since the Soloist is a little „leaner“ sounding (in comparison to my other amps) and from the first impressions I have read, the SA-1 might have a more „meaty“ sound (like my V281or the Rebel/Fluxlab amps).


----------



## Lolito

thank you so much for the answer, your opinion counts a lot since you actually have them all.


----------



## tommo21

Thanks for all of your feedback on my post yesterday. Audiophonics in Europe got a batch in today and I got the last one, so next week I'll be trying the SA-1 out for myself 😀


----------



## Lolito

Nice!! I will wait for it to be available in my country, hopefully soon. Saves me 10€ compared to buying it from France.


----------



## Lolito

15:30 notification of stock available was sent, 15:40 was sold out...

the hype train


----------



## VielenDanke

I live in the USA, just got the AMP last night. Did about 2 hours of listening before bed. Compared to my 789 the soundstage and separation improved and overall, no loss of detail. Improved detail in the mids and bass. The highs are not as sparkly as with the 789, but the 789 can sound overly analytical/harsh to people. I am using the Soncoz LA-QXD1 DAC as of right now, but I just bought an Denafrips Ares II to pair with it. Should be a good warm/organic pairing.


----------



## tommo21

Lolito said:


> 15:30 notification of stock available was sent, 15:40 was sold out...
> 
> the hype train


Got the notification at 15:30 and confirmed order mail at 15:33. So didn't even think about it or hesitate. It said "Last One" when I ordered it. Now it says 15-25 days for next batch to arrive at Audiophonics.fr. So got lucky this time 🙂


----------



## skhan007

Habas1 said:


> I would be very interested to hear the comparison between SA-1 and Soloist 3x.


I think somebody spoke about this comparison in post #59 of this thread. He ranked the Burson above the Singxer.


----------



## Deceneu808

Just pulled the trigger on the SA-1. 15 to 25 days wait time...


----------



## Habas1

I am thinking to do the same, wonder who has better customer service (in case of anything) - audiophonics.fr (I've read a post that its pretty bad in terms of customer service) or magnahifi.com (haven't heard anything yet).


----------



## Habas1

skhan007 said:


> I think somebody spoke about this comparison in post #59 of this thread. He ranked the Burson above the Singxer.


I feel like the next Burson product will be even better, fixing all those quirks (hopefully)  for the time being I guess I am going to get SA-1 and in a year or two upgrade to something more sophisticated.


----------



## Kafé

Habas1 said:


> I am thinking to do the same, wonder who has better customer service (in case of anything) - audiophonics.fr (I've read a post that its pretty bad in terms of customer service) or magnahifi.com (haven't heard anything yet).


I bought several products from Audiophonics (Hifiman headphone, Topping D90 ...) and I never had any problems.

The point is that you can order the SA-1 and the Burson Soloist and return the one you like the least


----------



## skhan007

Yeah, the Burson Soloist 3x and Singxer SA-1 seem to be topping my list, as I'm researching solid state headphone amps. For me, I'm listening to my music at fairly low dB. In fact, I just used a spectrum analyzer app and noted my comfortable listening level on my ZMF Auteur is about 60 dB. I'm currently using a DAC/amp combo unit (RME) and I'm REALLY curious if a separate and dedicated headphone amp, like the Singxer, would add to my experience. I would imagine yes, as many Burson owners have stated staging, separation, and other intangibles are there.


----------



## Habas1

Kafé said:


> I bought several products from Audiophonics (Hifiman headphone, Topping D90 ...) and I never had any problems.
> 
> The point is that you can order the SA-1 and the Burson Soloist and return the one you like the least


Have you ever tried to return an item bought from Audiophonics? Was it easy process?

It would be actually cool do to this way and find out myself which one I would prefer. Though in the beginning it seemed it might be a risky thing to do, from audiophonics return policy:


> *Cannot be taken back:*
> - Sealed products, or with a special packaging such as plastic that has been opened by the customer


Need to have a look on the Soloist packaging.


----------



## Kafé

Habas1 said:


> Have you ever tried to return an item bought from Audiophonics? Was it easy process?
> 
> It would be actually cool do to this way and find out myself which one I would prefer. Though in the beginning it seemed it might be a risky thing to do, from audiophonics return policy:
> 
> Need to have a look on the Soloist packaging.



A few months ago, I ordered the Topping D90 and the Gustard A-18, contacted the after-sales service and returned the Gustard within 15 days without any problem.
Feel free to contact them


----------



## nlwouter

Habas1 said:


> I am thinking to do the same, wonder who has better customer service (in case of anything) - audiophonics.fr (I've read a post that its pretty bad in terms of customer service) or magnahifi.com (haven't heard anything yet).


I have ordered 2 Audio-GD products from Magnhifi with good customer service, they are a reputable company.  Same experience with Audiophonics: ordered a power amp that I didn't end up liking, so I returned it with no issues.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Habas1 said:


> I am thinking to do the same, wonder who has better customer service (in case of anything) - audiophonics.fr (I've read a post that its pretty bad in terms of customer service) or magnahifi.com (haven't heard anything yet).



I bought 2 Audio GD DACs from MagnaHifi--both were excellent experiences. Jos was extremely knowledgeable & helpful. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them...


----------



## ES_EF

Pharmaboy said:


> I bought 2 Audio GD DACs from MagnaHifi--both were excellent experiences. Jos was extremely knowledgeable & helpful. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them...


I've purchased 3 Singxer items and an Audio GD Dac from Magna and Jos has always delivered, properly packed and quick to ship


----------



## Lolito

no stock on any of those at the moment


----------



## Fly2High

does anyone have the numbers on the Singxer SA-1 for Single Ended output at 32, 64, 300 and 600 ohm impedances?  I think they only list the balanced ones.  

Also, anyone have a PDF of the Singxer SA-1 manual?  I know there is not much to it but I like to see the operational comparisons too.

I was thinking of the Gustard H16 but got a bit turned off when I found out that the SE output maxed out at 1W ( 800mW @ 32Ohms, 1W @64, ~250mW @300 and 133mW @ 600).  Not too sure if the Gustard can drive much single ended.  Also, I think the menu system and display in a SMSL SH-9 is better than the Gustard H16.  They should have spent a bit more in that.


----------



## Deceneu808

Fly2High said:


> does anyone have the numbers on the Singxer SA-1 for Single Ended output at 32, 64, 300 and 600 ohm impedances?  I think they only list the balanced ones.
> 
> Also, anyone have a PDF of the Singxer SA-1 manual?  I know there is not much to it but I like to see the operational comparisons too.
> 
> I was thinking of the Gustard H16 but got a bit turned off when I found out that the SE output maxed out at 1W ( 800mW @ 32Ohms, 1W @64, ~250mW @300 and 133mW @ 600).  Not too sure if the Gustard can drive much single ended.  Also, I think the menu system and display in a SMSL SH-9 is better than the Gustard H16.  They should have spent a bit more in that.


I think the power output is about the same either SE or Balanced


----------



## ES_EF

Fly2High said:


> does anyone have the numbers on the Singxer SA-1 for Single Ended output at 32, 64, 300 and 600 ohm impedances?  I think they only list the balanced ones.
> 
> Also, anyone have a PDF of the Singxer SA-1 manual?  I know there is not much to it but I like to see the operational comparisons too.
> 
> I was thinking of the Gustard H16 but got a bit turned off when I found out that the SE output maxed out at 1W ( 800mW @ 32Ohms, 1W @64, ~250mW @300 and 133mW @ 600).  Not too sure if the Gustard can drive much single ended.  Also, I think the menu system and display in a SMSL SH-9 is better than the Gustard H16.  They should have spent a bit more in that.


http://www.singxer.com/col.jsp?id=108


----------



## skhan007 (Mar 24, 2021)

I also have the same question about 32, 64, 300 and 600 ohm impedances (balanced or unbalanced). The PDF in the link is the handbook, but I didn't see these data presented. Does anyone know?

I did see this on a google search:

6480mW @ 32Ω
2000mW @ 120Ω
380mW @ 600Ω

Mostly, I'm curious out 300 Ohm.


----------



## pankar0

I think somewhere I read the Sa-1 has the same watts output from bal and SE.
Also is full balanced inside either the connection is RCA or xlr.. the amp convert the signal to balanced.


----------



## Muataz (Mar 24, 2021)

I think SA-1 half what balance gives.
Not match to Gustard H16 SE performance


----------



## Fly2High

Deceneu808 said:


> I think the power output is about the same either SE or Balanced


Usually for a fully balanced amp, the SE is at best half the BAL output.  I was shocked to see the Gustard so low.  How does this one go the other way and be fully balanced and equal power output?  Doesn’t make sense to me but then again I am new to all this...


----------



## Dopaminer

pankar0 said:


> I think somewhere I read the Sa-1 has the same watts output from bal and SE.
> Also is full balanced inside either the connection is RCA or xlr.. the amp convert the signal to balanced.


Here are some measurements from a Chinese site. Looking at this, the SE and Bal circuits are not equal, and it would not make sense for a balanced amplifier to have equal measurements from both outputs. Remember, popular recent amps like the 789, Monolith THX,  SMSL 200, etc, are not actually balanced. They only provide the 'balanced' connectors for convenience and/or marketing.


----------



## quawn0418

skhan007 said:


> I also have the same question about 32, 64, 300 and 600 ohm impedances (balanced or unbalanced). The PDF in the link is the handbook, but I didn't see these data presented. Does anyone know?
> 
> I did see this on a google search:
> 
> ...


Based on the numbers above you’ll be getting around at least 760mw at 300ohms, again that’s at least


----------



## skhan007

quawn0418 said:


> Based on the numbers above you’ll be getting around at least 760mw at 300ohms, again that’s at least


Thanks, those are impressive numbers! If you don't mind, is there a certain math formula involved to determine this? If so, I'd like to learn it and apply it to figuring out different values for different headphones. Much appreciated.


----------



## Muataz

skhan007 said:


> Thanks, those are impressive numbers! If you don't mind, is there a certain math formula involved to determine this? If so, I'd like to learn it and apply it to figuring out different values for different headphones. Much appreciated.


Double  the power with half impedance


----------



## Fly2High (Mar 24, 2021)

Muataz said:


> Double  the power with half impedance


Not always true.  Looking at the SMSL SH-9, it starts at 6W at 16Ohms, 3W@32, 440W@300 and 220@600.

by your math, it should be
1.5W@64
750mW@128
375mW@256
187mW@512

And from the published data we see it is not.  It is higher.

looking at the published power curve on the Gustard H16, we also see it is not true.


----------



## Muataz (Mar 24, 2021)

Fly2High said:


> Not always true.  Looking at the SMSL SH-9, it starts at 6W at 16Ohms, 3W@32, 440W@300 and 220@600.
> 
> by your math, it should be
> 1.5W@64
> ...


You are right, but usually coming from very high impedance you will double until your reach the design capacity of current.


----------



## Dopaminer

I would really like to hear from any SA-1 owners - how much volume range are you getting with the headphones you are using? Are you able to get up around 12 o'clock?

With this trend in amplifiers of ever-greater output power, I really want to avoid a situation where I am only using 15 or 20 percent of the volume range.

Thanks!


----------



## Lolito

Dopaminer said:


> I would really like to hear from any SA-1 owners - how much volume range are you getting with the headphones you are using? Are you able to get up around 12 o'clock?
> 
> With this trend in amplifiers of ever-greater output power, I really want to avoid a situation where I am only using 15 or 20 percent of the volume range.
> 
> Thanks!


exact same question here, with a hd6xx, that should be a proper reference that most people use.


----------



## Muataz

Dopaminer said:


> I would really like to hear from any SA-1 owners - how much volume range are you getting with the headphones you are using? Are you able to get up around 12 o'clock?
> 
> With this trend in amplifiers of ever-greater output power, I really want to avoid a situation where I am only using 15 or 20 percent of the volume range.
> 
> Thanks!




You can achieve it, first you have two Gains ( 0db Gain + 11 db )
Also you can adjust your DAC output. for example in my DAC smsl m5000 I dial 35/40 volume then I use the amplifer on 0 Gain and I use around 10 to 1 o'clock.

You can drop the DAC volume so you raise you amplifer volume nope.


----------



## Lolito

Muataz said:


> You can achieve it, first you have two Gains ( 0db Gain + 11 db )
> Also you can adjust your DAC output. for example in my DAC smsl m5000 I dial 35/40 volume then I use the amplifer on 0 Gain and I use around 10 to 1 o'clock.
> 
> You can drop the DAC volume so you raise you amplifer volume nope.


if you lower volume in the digital realm, you are lowering audio resolution. That your ear can notice it, of course not, but that it is listening to lower quality audio with lower engagement, also true, even if you don't notice it on a blind ABX test, before people starts with that. If you travel in a train at 300Km/h, or at 400 Km/h, not sure if you will notice it really at that speed, but guess what, the one at 400 Km/h gets to destination earlier, gives more pleasure, if you notice it or not at the instant, that is another story, but the one at 400 Km/h arrives faster.

that is why we need to know, with a set amplifier, a set headphones, and a given RCA connected dac or XLR connected dac at max dac volume, what is the usable knob travel?? of course that lowering the dac volume solves this, but that is what we don't want to do, otherwise the question would be totally unecessary...

I did what you say when I was starting, then I learned.


----------



## Dopaminer

Muataz said:


> You can achieve it, first you have two Gains ( 0db Gain + 11 db )
> Also you can adjust your DAC output. for example in my DAC smsl m5000 I dial 35/40 volume then I use the amplifer on 0 Gain and I use around 10 to 1 o'clock.
> 
> You can drop the DAC volume so you raise you amplifer volume nope.


Yes, I was assuming low gain. And let's also assume the DAC output is fixed. 
I recently tried an Oppo HA-1 with Focal Stellias and it was ridiculous - even on low gain I wasn't much past 9 o'clock. It was simply way too loud. 
The reviewer Passion for Sound found similar limitations with the Jotenheim 2 and the Liquid Platinum. He ran several headphones through them and never got past 11 o'clock. 
 It seems to me that 'can drive the Susvara' is some kind of marketing tagline, and so we have headphone amps with 8, 12, 16 watts per channel. I love the idea of headroom, but seriously.......


----------



## Muataz

Dopaminer said:


> Yes, I was assuming low gain. And let's also assume the DAC output is fixed.
> I recently tried an Oppo HA-1 with Focal Stellias and it was ridiculous - even on low gain I wasn't much past 9 o'clock. It was simply way too loud.
> The reviewer Passion for Sound found similar limitations with the Jotenheim 2 and the Liquid Platinum. He ran several headphones through them and never got past 11 o'clock.
> It seems to me that 'can drive the Susvara' is some kind of marketing tagline, and so we have headphone amps with 8, 12, 16 watts per channel. I love the idea of headroom, but seriously.......


I don't see any issue reaching high volume at low as 9 o'clock.
However SA-1 is another story, the dynamic range of it at low volume is way way better than anything. At 50mw you can reach 94db or better of Dynamic range and other headphones amp can't reach 90 or even 85db.


----------



## Habas1

Dopaminer said:


> Yes, I was assuming low gain. And let's also assume the DAC output is fixed.
> I recently tried an Oppo HA-1 with Focal Stellias and it was ridiculous - even on low gain I wasn't much past 9 o'clock. It was simply way too loud.
> The reviewer Passion for Sound found similar limitations with the Jotenheim 2 and the Liquid Platinum. He ran several headphones through them and never got past 11 o'clock.
> It seems to me that 'can drive the Susvara' is some kind of marketing tagline, and so we have headphone amps with 8, 12, 16 watts per channel. I love the idea of headroom, but seriously.......


What about lowering volume on the DAC? Does it effect the sound quality at the end or you have DAC without volume control?


----------



## Fly2High

Adjusting the ‘volume’ at the DAC attenuated the signal which I have heard is not a good thing.  

I think it is desired to use a gain setting that gets you closer to full volume to gain max dynamic range but not so high a again such that you hear the noise floor.  Also, you need space for those calls by the music for more power so some headroom is needed.  I have heard of some amps , on the Susvara, needing 90% volume and did not sound good not having enough power to spare for dynamic calls of more power.  
To me, this sounds like one would strive for 60-70% volume levels, maybe a slight bit more but not much.


----------



## bithloman

Alot of people have the he 6 headphone that needs 5 watts at 50ohms. And the jot 2 is great for that and cleaner than most even for iems so it's best of both really . Although I think the JOT 2 has better low volume .


----------



## Muataz

Habas1 said:


> What about lowering volume on the DAC? Does it effect the sound quality at the end or you have DAC without volume control?


It is fine if it is digital.


----------



## Dopaminer (Mar 29, 2021)

Well, with the start of Shenzhen Audio's sale today, I could stand it no longer and purchased the SA-1. Should be here in a week or two. Super excited for this pairing with my new Arya. Now, to source a DAC......


----------



## Muataz

Dopaminer said:


> Well, with the start of Shenzen Audio's sale today, I could stand it no longer and purchased the SA-1. Should be here in a week or two. Super excited for this pairing with my new Arya. Now, to source a DAC......


Get DAC with at least 4.4v from its XLR


----------



## nekky

Muataz said:


> Get DAC with at least 4.4v from its XLR


I just ordered the X16 to pair with the SA-1.  The X16 does just over 4V according to Amir's ASR - will this be an ideal match or should I consider Topping D70S which does 5V I believe??

I should also note that I am driving a 13ohm pair of Dan Clark Audio x Drop Aeon Open X - any feedback on the setup including these headphones is welcome.


----------



## Muataz

nekky said:


> I just ordered the X16 to pair with the SA-1.  The X16 does just over 4V according to Amir's ASR - will this be an ideal match or should I consider Topping D70S which does 5V I believe??
> 
> I should also note that I am driving a 13ohm pair of Dan Clark Audio x Drop Aeon Open X - any feedback on the setup including these headphones is welcome.


I have the Aeon and I drove it from SE output and on low Gain .. Easy to drive .. don't think too much .. but you should drive it form balance


----------



## Dopaminer

nekky said:


> I just ordered the X16 to pair with the SA-1.  The X16 does just over 4V according to Amir's ASR - will this be an ideal match or should I consider Topping D70S which does 5V I believe??
> 
> I should also note that I am driving a 13ohm pair of Dan Clark Audio x Drop Aeon Open X - any feedback on the setup including these headphones is welcome.



Considering how powerful the SA-1 is, the standard 2.2v/4.4v for SE/Bal will be enough for headphones. Unless you're planning to feed the X16 to a power amp, no more v should be needed. I have the opposite worry - The SA-1 will be too powerful. 

I am also considering the X16 and the D70S. I can also get a Topping DX7S locally for very cheap.
Also very interested, suddenly, in the Cayin iDAC-6MK2. So many DACs....


----------



## nekky

Muataz said:


> I have the Aeon and I drove it from SE output and on low Gain .. Easy to drive .. don't think too much .. but you should drive it form balance


Great. And yes I am balanced from X16 to SA-1 to Aeons with a hart audio cable.
Low gain or high gain do you think? Low-z or high-z more importantly?!
Of course I will experiment.


----------



## nekky

Dopaminer said:


> Considering how powerful the SA-1 is, the standard 2.2v/4.4v for SE/Bal will be enough for headphones. Unless you're planning to feed the X16 to a power amp, no more v should be needed. I have the opposite worry - The SA-1 will be too powerful.
> 
> I am also considering the X16 and the D70S. I can also get a Topping DX7S locally for very cheap.
> Also very interested, suddenly, in the Cayin iDAC-6MK2. So many DACs....


Thank you for your reply! Do you know the headphones at all? Hoping it sounds good but 99.99% sure it will hehe 🙃


----------



## Dopaminer

nekky said:


> Thank you for your reply! Do you know the headphones at all? Hoping it sounds good but 99.99% sure it will hehe 🙃


I've never heard the Aeon, but I owned the Ether C until a couple of months ago.  
13 Ohm is really low. Luckily, the SA-1 has low output impedance of 1.4 Ohm on its Low z setting, so the you'll be right at the recommended 1:8 ratio. 
Though I have recently read that impedance-matching is not a thing for planars. I want to learn more about that. 

Be sure to share some images of that SA-1/X16 stack!


----------



## nekky

Dopaminer said:


> I've never heard the Aeon, but I owned the Ether C until a couple of months ago.
> 13 Ohm is really low. Luckily, the SA-1 has low output impedance of 1.4 Ohm on its Low z setting, so the you'll be right at the recommended 1:8 ratio.
> Though I have recently read that impedance-matching is not a thing for planars. I want to learn more about that.
> 
> Be sure to share some images of that SA-1/X16 stack!


Thank you sir! I definitely will. Currently have the X16 already but it’s powering two Geshelli Labs amps, which will be for sale shortly as they don’t work well with such low impedance cans. They both sound fantastic though, but am hoping for an overall upgrade with moving to Class A discrete


----------



## Pharmaboy

Dopaminer said:


> I've never heard the Aeon, but I owned the Ether C until a couple of months ago.
> 13 Ohm is really low. Luckily, the SA-1 has low output impedance of 1.4 Ohm on its Low z setting, so the you'll be right at the recommended 1:8 ratio.
> Though I have recently read that impedance-matching is not a thing for planars. I want to learn more about that.
> 
> Be sure to share some images of that SA-1/X16 stack!



I have an original AFO on the way...arriving tomorrow. Heard it a couple times at shows 2-3 yrs ago and liked it. The amplification at the show setups was well below what I can do IMS, so I'm looking forward to finding out if the AFO scales with bigger/stronger amps.

I own/owned a number of planars. The highest impedance planar I owned was the pre-fazor LCD-2.1 @80 ohms. The lowest impedance planar I own is the Kennerton Odin (20 ohms); next lowest was the Hifiman Edition X v2 (25 ohms). The latter 2 HPs also have relatively high sensitivity. I found a couple things to be true of all planars, regardless of their impedance:

Planars seem to appreciate a lot of dynamic headroom--amplifier power above & beyond the minimum required to get a given planar up to full volume. Not sure why this is, but I've found it to be true w/all planars I've had IMS. Low power SS amps definitely can get them up to full volume, but higher power SS amps almost always sound better
And all the planars I've tried on my OTL tube amp (Woo WA3) sounded just fine--no bass boost like what I hear with low impedance dynamic headphones on the same amp
I understand that planar drivers tend to have flat impedance curves that vary little at the frequency extremes. By contrast, most dynamics have quite a bit more impedance variation by frequency: the bass frequencies usually dip lower in  impedance than the other frequencies--thus drawing more power from the OTL amp into the lows, causing that familiar OTL bass boost.


----------



## pankar0

nekky said:


> Thank you sir! I definitely will. Currently have the X16 already but it’s powering two Geshelli Labs amps, which will be for sale shortly as they don’t work well with such low impedance cans. They both sound fantastic though, but am hoping for an overall upgrade with moving to Class A discrete


I have the x16 and the Arya's and I m thinking to purchase the sa-1.... now I m waiting your thoughts about this set..
Especially the driving section from sa-1 too Arya's.


----------



## nekky

pankar0 said:


> I have the x16 and the Arya's and I m thinking to purchase the sa-1.... now I m waiting your thoughts about this set..
> Especially the driving section from sa-1 too Arya's.


I will let you know as soon as it arrives in a week or two. I’m hoping mine comes very quickly like @Chibs but I’m not holding my breath.
Would really love to try Arya’s someday... or maybe not..$$$ lol


----------



## quawn0418

DHL for the win today, will be listening for the next hour or so...sounds really really good so far, compared to the thx amps it’s less clean for sure, but it’s more full and just a bit more excellent overall


----------



## nekky

quawn0418 said:


> DHL for the win today, will be listening for the next hour or so...sounds really really good so far, compared to the thx amps it’s less clean for sure, but it’s more full and just a bit more excellent overall


I’ll be the first to say that is one sexy stack/can combo... there really isn’t anything like the ADI 2 FS... which makes me sad and afraid that I’ll buy one one day...


----------



## Kafé

quawn0418 said:


> DHL for the win today, will be listening for the next hour or so...sounds really really good so far, compared to the thx amps it’s less clean for sure, but it’s more full and just a bit more excellent overall



Great ! looking forward to reading your comments after a few days of use


----------



## Dopaminer (Mar 30, 2021)

I am really liking this SA-1/Arya club we have going here.

That is a very drool-worthy stack there with the ADI. Where did you get that cable for the Arya?


----------



## Fly2High (Mar 30, 2021)

I hope I can at least be a honorary member in good standing.

Just ordered a SA-1 with a Gustard X16 to go with my Sundara headphones.  With the price drop Shenzen Audio has now, I got this instead of a Gustard H16/X16 stack for $20 more.  I think that stack would have been good enough but I think the SA-1 will be closer to end game for much longer time period.  Still not sure if the SMSL SU-9 would have been better or not.  Right now since I have no DAC at all, everything would be better than what I have now (Blu-ray internal or on board audio in computer).  What sold me on the X16 over the SU-9 was the description of the sound in the reviews.  I think the measurements of the two DACs are very close to not be that important. 

Wish me luck!


----------



## nekky

Fly2High said:


> I hope I can at least be a honorary member in good standing.
> 
> Just ordered a SA-1 with a Gustard X16 to go with my Sundara headphones.  With the price drop Shenzen Audio has now, I got this instead of a Gustard H16/X16 stack for $20 more.  I think that stack would have been good enough but I think the SA-1 will be closer to end game for much longer time period.  Still not sure if the SMSL SU-9 would have been better or not.  Right now since I have no DAC at all, everything would be better than what I have now (Blu-ray internal or on board audio in computer).  What sold me on the X16 over the SU-9 was the description of the sound in the reviews.  I think the measurements of the two DACs are very close to not be that important.
> 
> Wish me luck!


I have the exact same combo en route and using Aeons. Rest assured the X16 is excellent. Hoping the SA-1 is as good as everyone says. I’ll be gaming on it too.


----------



## quawn0418

Dopaminer said:


> I am really liking this SA-1/Arya club we have going here.
> 
> That is a very drool-worthy stack there with the ADI. Where did you get that cable for the Arya?


Thanks, the cable is from periapt, joshua valour raves about them, he’s my favorite reviewer by the way, I’ve never returned anything I purchased due to a review of his, now zeos on the other hand, he’s a different story, he was right this time, i do like the sa-1


----------



## quawn0418

Just stopping by to tell you guys that this volume knob is not your friend. You don’t get much drive until about 2-3 o’ clock. It certainly handles more voltage than the thx does. Just beware of the volume knob, definitely gonna take some getting used to.


----------



## nekky

quawn0418 said:


> Just stopping by to tell you guys that this volume knob is not your friend. You don’t get much drive until about 2-3 o’ clock. It certainly handles more voltage than the thx does. Just beware of the volume knob, definitely gonna take some getting used to.


Low gain or high gain, or both?


----------



## quawn0418

nekky said:


> Low gain or high gain, or both?


low and high gain feel about the same till about 2 o clock, so I’d say it’s really high gain that takes some getting used to


----------



## joseG86

quawn0418 said:


> DHL for the win today, will be listening for the next hour or so...sounds really really good so far, compared to the thx amps it’s less clean for sure, but it’s more full and just a bit more excellent overall


Beautiful, looking forward more impressions!


----------



## nekky

quawn0418 said:


> low and high gain feel about the same till about 2 o clock, so I’d say it’s really high gain that takes some getting used to


You run on low-Z or high-Z?


----------



## quawn0418

nekky said:


> You run on low-Z or high-Z?


I’ve been leaning towards high, with the Arya’s high z gives u less volume but there’s this smoothness that comes wit it, it’s minor, but appreciated, it all boils down to your headphones impedance


----------



## Pharmaboy

joseG86 said:


> Beautiful, looking forward more impressions!



Luciano--is that you?


----------



## joseG86

Pharmaboy said:


> Luciano--is that you?


----------



## Pharmaboy

joseG86 said:


>



I just realized--you must be Jose Carreras.


----------



## joseG86

Pharmaboy said:


> I just realized--you must be Jose Carreras.


I like him too but I prefer Luciano haha


----------



## Jay_vs

Anyone know what the power output is at 20 Ohms on the SA-1, also on the Gustard H16? please.


----------



## Gorillaphant

Messing with the idea of picking up either an SA-1 or a Jotunheim 2 in a couple of months. Currently leaning toward this for the output options. I typically prefer a warmer sound signature and will be coming from a Topping A90. Any thoughts to steer my in the right direction?


----------



## nekky

Gorillaphant said:


> Messing with the idea of picking up either an SA-1 or a Jotunheim 2 in a couple of months. Currently leaning toward this for the output options. I typically prefer a warmer sound signature and will be coming from a Topping A90. Any thoughts to steer my in the right direction?


Mine is in the mail but it sounds like you're on the right track based on everything I've read and heard - warmer than A90 by a longshot, maybe not as tight, but still very powerful.


----------



## Fly2High

take advantage of the Shenzen Audio sale.  The Singxer SA-1 is at a good price right now.  You would have to check with their return policies but from what I read, the SA-1 is warmer and more musical than the clinical and neutral A90 - their descriptions , not mine.  I have min and a Gustard X16 in the mail myself.


----------



## Gorillaphant

Trying to hold off on the purchase until at least the summer months, otherwise I would probably go for it now. I'm sure the sale price will come back around.


----------



## bithloman

Gorillaphant said:


> Trying to hold off on the purchase until at least the summer months, otherwise I would probably go for it now. I'm sure the sale price will come back around.


I just got my jot 2 and It has exceeded all my expectations and I'm using it with the HE6 SE It is a properly well made amplifier and the sound is truly a step up from other 200 to $300 amps and the power is immense . I noticed far more spatial detail in my music and the center image is to die for. I never really noticed anything special about a center image until now I think it just throws the insurance and separations so well that I'm finally noticing it


----------



## Gorillaphant (Mar 30, 2021)

bithloman said:


> I just got my jot 2 and It has exceeded all my expectations and I'm using it with the HE6 SE It is a properly well made amplifier and the sound is truly a step up from other 200 to $300 amps and the power is immense . I noticed far more spatial detail in my music and the center image is to die for. I never really noticed anything special about a center image until now I think it just throws the insurance and separations so well that I'm finally noticing it


Genuinely the only thing that makes me lean toward the SA-1 is is the lack of a 4.4mm balanced option on the Jot2. I have a 4.4 to XLR adapter but it would be nicer to just have both available. That being said, I haven't really looked into either one in great detail and by the time I decide to go for the purchase, there may be something else available as well.


----------



## Jay_vs

Fly2High said:


> take advantage of the Shenzen Audio sale.  The Singxer SA-1 is at a good price right now.  You would have to check with their return policies but from what I read, the SA-1 is warmer and more musical than the clinical and neutral A90 - their descriptions , not mine.  I have min and a Gustard X16 in the mail myself.


I ordered the Gustard X16 and Singxer SA-1 from Hifigo. Really good prices right now. Was really torn between the SA-1 and the H16. Still not sure I made the right choice. lol


----------



## kdub

Roasty said:


> I just placed an order for the sa-1 on drop.
> Looking forward to giving this a go.
> Intention is for use with Utopia, Stellia and GS3000e as my other amps have too much gain/power for these sensitive headphones.


Same here. SA-1 on order and first thing to try will be my Stellia. My dac is the SMSL SU-9 MQA. I hope the dac plays nice but will see. If you find any perfect dac pairings please let me know TIA.


----------



## Fly2High

kdub said:


> Same here. SA-1 on order and first thing to try will be my Stellia. My dac is the SMSL SU-9 MQA. I hope the dac plays nice but will see. If you find any perfect dac pairings please let me know TIA.


Let us know how you like the SU-9.  That was my other choice.


----------



## Muataz

I placed an order for Singxer SDA-6 DAC, I will use SA-1 to compare SDA-6 to SMSL M500.

Regards,


----------



## nekky

Jay_vs said:


> I ordered the Gustard X16 and Singxer SA-1 from Hifigo. Really good prices right now. Was really torn between the SA-1 and the H16. Still not sure I made the right choice. lol


Exactly the same position I was in and subsequent order placed lol.


----------



## Jay_vs

Fingers crossed we chose well. my only real concern is not knowing the amount power the SA-1 outputs at 20 Ohms. My Audeze Deckard is 4W at 20 Ohms and sounds excellent. So hope this isn't a downgrade.


----------



## nekky

Jay_vs said:


> Fingers crossed we chose well. my only real concern is not knowing the amount power the SA-1 outputs at 20 Ohms. My Audeze Deckard is 4W at 20 Ohms and sounds excellent. So hope this isn't a downgrade.


My cans are 13ohms, also very curious what the power is down low.


----------



## Fly2High

Just chatted with Shenzen Audio.  They have too many orders for the SA-1 and are hoping to get more and so my order will be delayed to ship at the earliest next week.


----------



## joseG86

Ordered one for 430€ with the discount and a coupon I had. Can't wait to receive it and compare with Jotunheim 2!


----------



## pankar0 (Mar 31, 2021)

joseG86 said:


> Ordered one for 430€ with the discount and a coupon I had. Can't wait to receive it and compare with Jotunheim 2!


You are my men....!!! I m waiting to decide between those two amps for my Arya's.
Pleaseeeee send me your thoughts.
It s very important for me before I pull the trigger to one of them.

You ordered from China..??


----------



## joseG86

pankar0 said:


> You are my men....!!! I m waiting to decide between those two amps for my Arya's.
> Pleaseeeee send me your thoughts.
> It s very important for me before I pull the trigger to one of them.
> 
> You ordered from China..??


Yeah! I ordered Gustard X16 from them and received in less than 5 days, very amazing ^^

I'll share thoughts as soon as I get it, I love the Jotunheim 2 but I really want to try SA-1 coming from A90 haha


----------



## Gorillaphant

joseG86 said:


> Yeah! I ordered Gustard X16 from them and received in less than 5 days, very amazing ^^
> 
> I'll share thoughts as soon as I get it, I love the Jotunheim 2 but I really want to try SA-1 coming from A90 haha


Basically in a similar position to you (coming from A90) - will be waiting for your review!


----------



## pankar0

joseG86 said:


> Yeah! I ordered Gustard X16 from them and received in less than 5 days, very amazing ^^
> 
> I'll share thoughts as soon as I get it, I love the Jotunheim 2 but I really want to try SA-1 coming from A90 haha


What about taxes and customs fees... 
Here in Greece they charge me extra 24% taxes and 30€ customs fees.... for the product from China 
If I order the singxer I probably go either with Audiophonics either with magna hifi...


----------



## Arniesb

pankar0 said:


> What about taxes and customs fees...
> Here in Greece they charge me extra 24% taxes and 30€ customs fees.... for the product from China
> If I order the singxer I probably go either with Audiophonics either with magna hifi...


I was thinking the same.


----------



## joseG86

In Spain I paid 25€ customs and that was all for X16


----------



## xanlamin

This amp is really something. It makes a lot of my headphones sound better!


----------



## kdub

Fly2High said:


> Just chatted with Shenzen Audio.  They have too many orders for the SA-1 and are hoping to get more and so my order will be delayed to ship at the earliest next week.


When did you placed your order? I also ordered from Shenzhen Audio. Placed order on Mar 30th and hoping to receive shipping confirmation soon.


----------



## kdub

xanlamin said:


> This amp is really something. It makes a lot of my headphones sound better!


Does that include the Focal Stellia like your avatar image. I have a pair of the Stellia and very interested how the amp sounds with it.


----------



## xanlamin

That's not Stellia but Clear Mg non-pro. Definitely bring it up a few notches with the SA-1. I was previously running it off iFi Zen DAC but it is no match for the SA-1.


----------



## kdub

Fly2High said:


> Let us know how you like the SU-9.  That was my other choice.


It is currently paired with a Drop THX AAA 789 and overall I'm not liking the sound. Too sharp and clinical it feels. This could be more of the amp than the dac. Will test the SU-9 more once I get the SA-1 amp on arrival.


----------



## Muataz

quawn0418 said:


> I’ve been leaning towards high, with the Arya’s high z gives u less volume but there’s this smoothness that comes wit it, it’s minor, but appreciated, it all boils down to your headphones impedance


High-Z technically not good with arya, you will loss bass control and may sound roll off.


----------



## Fly2High

kdub said:


> When did you placed your order? I also ordered from Shenzhen Audio. Placed order on Mar 30th and hoping to receive shipping confirmation soon.


I also placed my order on Monday 29th.  I chatted with them yesterday about the order since most seem to receive order shipping notice very quickly and have received delivery within the week.


----------



## nekky

Fly2High said:


> I also placed my order on Monday 29th.  I chatted with them yesterday about the order since most seem to receive order shipping notice very quickly and have received delivery within the week.


I also chatted with them yesterday and they are still waiting for their new shipment of SA-1 to arrive so it will ship next week.  Kind of crappy honestly, all the items I ordered showed in stock with quantities closer to 100 units.  No big deal, first world problems.  I would be happy if it showed by next Friday.

Oh, and I placed my order on the 29th, first half of the day of the sale.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Muataz said:


> High-Z technically not good with arya, you will loss bass control and may sound roll off.



That's not necessarily true. The Arya uses planar drivers, and planars generally have a flatter impedance curve by frequency. In particular, planar usually have less of an impedance drop in the bass range--unlike dynamic drivers, which often have a significant impedance drop in the bass range (bringing greater amp power to low frequencies, thus the boosted lows). 

I own or owned 4-5 different planars, and all sounded quite good & normal on my high-impedance OTL tube amp. By contrast, dynamic headphones of all kinds sound pretty bad on the OTL, with noticeably boosted low frequencies.


----------



## Fly2High

I was wondering why would they put the gain switches on the bottom of the Singxer SA-1?  

Also, when do you use the impedance switch and when do you use the gain switches ( on the bottom)?

I believe when the headphones are lower in efficiency, you switch to the higher gain? If this is true, why would they put them on the bottom and make them as 4 separate switches where all other puts it on the front as a single switch?  If they only have the two gain settings, couldn't they just have put a relay in place of each bottom switch which is then controlled by a single switch on the front?

I read the manual but still do not know when to use the impedance switch? I get that the headphones should be at least 8X higher impedance and I thought more is better.

The real question is why would you want to increase output impedance? How does the sound get affected by increasing or lowering it?


----------



## Lolito

Fly2High said:


> I was wondering why would they put the gain switches on the bottom of the Singxer SA-1?
> 
> Also, when do you use the impedance switch and when do you use the gain switches ( on the bottom)?
> 
> ...


probably because they found a way to change gain in a cheaper way, but keeping a higher level of sound quality. And because most people just need low gain most of the time. Seems like the compromise was the 4 switches below, the advantage is sound quality and pure balanced/diferential amp. Stereo balanced has 4 was, not 2.


----------



## quawn0418

Muataz said:


> High-Z technically not good with arya, you will loss bass control and may sound roll off.


Technically maybe not, have you heard it personally? I favor it over low z, low z sounds closer to the thx amps, which is fine. But I’m tired of that clean clinical sound, I like the smooth roll off that comes with high z


----------



## deafenears

Lolito said:


> probably because they found a way to change gain in a cheaper way, but keeping a higher level of sound quality. And because most people just need low gain most of the time. Seems like the compromise was the 4 switches below, the advantage is sound quality and pure balanced/diferential amp. Stereo balanced has 4 was, not 2.


I read somewhere that that was done as a design decision. Not many switch gain frequently and doing it at the bottom right on the circuit paths means not having to run paths back to the front panel if a switch was to be put there.


----------



## Lolito

A design decision? yes, of course, LOL


----------



## XLR2XLR

I'm wondering if anyone has compared the SA-1 and Flux FA-12. They both are Class A with a sub-1K price tag and both have positive reviews.


----------



## Lolito

XLR2XLR said:


> I'm wondering if anyone has compared the SA-1 and Flux FA-12. They both are Class A with a sub-1K price tag and both have positive reviews.


very good question. But flux has no pre amp outs, much bigger, less compact, more expensive. It has 3 gain stages though, and in the front, and it has a toroidal psu, instead of 2x tiny ones like que singxer. fluid seems like more old school class A, more like a proper class A actually. But I can't tlk about performace or sound qualities of any of them though.


----------



## JGA007

When using the SA1 as a preamp does it just have volume and switching, or is their also a gain stage that applies?


----------



## Muataz

Fly2High said:


> I was wondering why would they put the gain switches on the bottom of the Singxer SA-1?
> 
> Also, when do you use the impedance switch and when do you use the gain switches ( on the bottom)?
> 
> ...


There is 4 channel and the gain on each one, and rewire the board for each to front panal and send the sound back may degrade the sound quality. So it is only a switch on the line of the sound. I liked the idea little bit.


----------



## XLR2XLR

Lolito said:


> very good question. But flux has no pre amp outs, much bigger, less compact, more expensive. It has 3 gain stages though, and in the front, and it has a toroidal psu, instead of 2x tiny ones like que singxer. fluid seems like more old school class A, more like a proper class A actually. But I can't tlk about performace or sound qualities of any of them though.


I would also add that the Flux has a relay-based volume control attenuator – the feature you don't usually see in the amps of this price range. 
I currently have the FA-12 connected to the Yggdrasil A2 and I preferer its sound signature to the Jot2 and A90. To my ears, it beats the Jot2 in soundstage and its timbre is more natural compared to the A90.


----------



## Fly2High

Does this act as a preamp with the output RCA and XLR?  Can I control the volume of a set of active speakers with the SA-1 volume knob?


----------



## joseG86

Fly2High said:


> Does this act as a preamp with the output RCA and XLR?  Can I control the volume of a set of active speakers with the SA-1 volume knob?


Yes


----------



## Fly2High

joseG86 said:


> Yes


I was hoping it would .  I plan on using this with my computer and a set of Edifier R1850DB speakers.  I wasn’t loving the idea to need to adjust the speakers by their remote so this works out perfectly!  One control for all volume control.

cool. Thanks.

now to wait patiently for it to ship!


----------



## joseG86

Fly2High said:


> I was hoping it would .  I plan on using this with my computer and a set of Edifier R1850DB speakers.  I wasn’t loving the idea to need to adjust the speakers by their remote so this works out perfectly!  One control for all volume control.
> 
> cool. Thanks.
> 
> now to wait patiently for it to ship!


I don't own SA-1 yet but I had my Focal Alpha 50 connected to preamp of A90 and now Jotunheim 2 and you control volume directly through the amp knob, the gain stages also affect the volume of active speakers but that's not to be used.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Fly2High said:


> I was hoping it would .  I plan on using this with my computer and a set of Edifier R1850DB speakers.  I wasn’t loving the idea to need to adjust the speakers by their remote so this works out perfectly!  One control for all volume control.
> 
> cool. Thanks.
> 
> now to wait patiently for it to ship!


I really wish this one had a remote control, because if I used it as a preamp it would be just out of arm's reach. 

In every other way it the way it's described seems pretty fine...


----------



## quawn0418

So after a couple of days with the sa-1 here are my thoughts, coming from a thx 887 it’s not a huge jump forward, very minimal actually...i definitely prefer the class A fullness that comes with it, but if you have a thx amp you shouldn’t be hard pressed to upgrade, I may even return the sa-1 and look into a tube hybrid. The mids are there with the sa-1 just a tad bit more...and sometimes it was extremely hard to tell. Great amp, but if you have a thx amp you are fine, look into something else. I noticed no difference in stage and separation. Zeos is just being zeos.


----------



## Lolito

quawn0418 said:


> So after a couple of days with the sa-1 here are my thoughts, coming from a thx 887 it’s not a huge jump forward, very minimal actually...i definitely prefer the class A fullness that comes with it, but if you have a thx amp you shouldn’t be hard pressed to upgrade, I may even return the sa-1 and look into a tube hybrid. The mids are there with the sa-1 just a tad bit more...and sometimes it was extremely hard to tell. Great amp, but if you have a thx amp you are fine, look into something else. I noticed no difference in stage and separation. Zeos is just being zeos.


what dac and what cans and what kinda source files you tested it? thanks for this kind of review, helps a lot, but if you could elaborate a tad on the details, thanks again!!


----------



## DaKing (Apr 3, 2021)

quawn0418 said:


> So after a couple of days with the sa-1 here are my thoughts, coming from a thx 887 it’s not a huge jump forward, very minimal actually...i definitely prefer the class A fullness that comes with it, but if you have a thx amp you shouldn’t be hard pressed to upgrade, I may even return the sa-1 and look into a tube hybrid. The mids are there with the sa-1 just a tad bit more...and sometimes it was extremely hard to tell. Great amp, but if you have a thx amp you are fine, look into something else. I noticed no difference in stage and separation. Zeos is just being zeos.


Thanks for the observation. I have a THX AAA 987 paired with a Chord Qutest and Sony MDR Z1R, Sennheiser HD 660s as well as CA Solaris. I am wondering if the SA-1 would be a worthwhile upgrade to have that Class A experience? What do others think?


----------



## kdub (Apr 3, 2021)

quawn0418 said:


> So after a couple of days with the sa-1 here are my thoughts, coming from a thx 887 it’s not a huge jump forward, very minimal actually...i definitely prefer the class A fullness that comes with it, but if you have a thx amp you shouldn’t be hard pressed to upgrade, I may even return the sa-1 and look into a tube hybrid. The mids are there with the sa-1 just a tad bit more...and sometimes it was extremely hard to tell. Great amp, but if you have a thx amp you are fine, look into something else. I noticed no difference in stage and separation. Zeos is just being zeos.


Not what us with the Drop THX AAA 789 wanted to hear. I find my SMSL SU-9 > Drop THX AAA 789 a bit bright and harsh. Now I am wondering if changing the amp or dac will yield bigger difference. Was hoping the SA-1 would smooth things out. Was also considering changing the dac to SMSL M400 or a R2R like the Denafrips Ares II. Btw hp are Senn HD6XX and Focal Stellia.


----------



## arar (Apr 3, 2021)

quawn0418 said:


> So after a couple of days with the sa-1 here are my thoughts, coming from a thx 887 it’s not a huge jump forward, very minimal actually...i definitely prefer the class A fullness that comes with it, but if you have a thx amp you shouldn’t be hard pressed to upgrade, I may even return the sa-1 and look into a tube hybrid. The mids are there with the sa-1 just a tad bit more...and sometimes it was extremely hard to tell. Great amp, but if you have a thx amp you are fine, look into something else. I noticed no difference in stage and separation. Zeos is just being zeos.



That's surprising to hear. I know audiophiles tend to overexaggerate the differences (at least to my hearing, "massive" changes are... rarely that) but "very minimal" between one that's supposed to be leaning towards musical and/or warm and one that's supposed to be analytical and sterile, huh. Well, I've still got a Magni 3 so I'm sure it'll be an upgrade from that, anyway.

Has anyone compared the SA-1 to RebelAmp and Flux Labs FA-12? Sound-wise, specifically. I'm looking to add a bit of that supposed Class A smoothness to my setup and those three seem to be the top budget picks.


----------



## quawn0418

DaKing said:


> Thanks for the observation. I have a THX AAA 987 paired with a Chord Qutest and Sony MDR Z1R, Sennheiser HD 660s as well as CA Solaris. I am wondering if the SA-1 would be a worthwhile upgrade to have that Class A experience? What do others think?


Beautiful set up, and I’d say pass on the sa-1, it’s not worth the additional $600 investment...keep the thx, and put that 600 towards something else


----------



## quawn0418

kdub said:


> Not what us with the Drop THX AAA 789 wanted to hear. I find my SMSL SU-9 > Drop THX AAA 789 a bit bright and harsh. Now I am wondering if changing the amp or dac will yield bigger difference. Was hoping the SA-1 would smooth things out. Was also considering changing the dac to SMSL M400 or a R2R like the Denafrips Ares II. Btw hp are Senn HD6XX and Focal Stellia.


From what I hear, the denefrips could help, but as far as amps, I think I’m gonna invest in a jotenhiem 2


----------



## joseG86

I ordered Singxer SA-1 with the discount to try a different amp, a more neutral one similar to A90 but with some life. Jotunheim 2 is glory in that regard, will always embrace your ears with pure joy, slam, punchiness and many different options depending on the connection used.

If SA-1 can provide a different kind of sound neutrality with a bit of warm to the play then It's going to be a good couple


----------



## arar

Read up on Jot 2 and watched Passion for Sound's review and sheesh, now that's also in the running lol. PfS's description of the sound signature has me a bit giddy. I have the ZMF Aeolus coming soon and apparently those two go together really well, and with the shipping and VAT (I'm in EU) the Jot 2 would be right around 500 euros too.


----------



## Muataz (Mar 7, 2022)

quawn0418 said:


> So after a couple of days with the sa-1 here are my thoughts, coming from a thx 887 it’s not a huge jump forward, very minimal actually...i definitely prefer the class A fullness that comes with it, but if you have a thx amp you shouldn’t be hard pressed to upgrade, I may even return the sa-1 and look into a tube hybrid. The mids are there with the sa-1 just a tad bit more...and sometimes it was extremely hard to tell. Great amp, but if you have a thx amp you are fine, look into something else. I noticed no difference in stage and separation. Zeos is just being zeos.


Try install jumpers to bypass the Capacitors. Should improve the sound 
*Updated* after a lot of experiment, I can't hear a difference


----------



## Arniesb

kdub said:


> Not what us with the Drop THX AAA 789 wanted to hear. I find my SMSL SU-9 > Drop THX AAA 789 a bit bright and harsh. Now I am wondering if changing the amp or dac will yield bigger difference. Was hoping the SA-1 would smooth things out. Was also considering changing the dac to SMSL M400 or a R2R like the Denafrips Ares II. Btw hp are Senn HD6XX and Focal Stellia.


If youre using usb as a source as stated then amp wont fix brightness that usb produce. Some might add bit of coloration so that harshness will not be as noticable.


----------



## Fly2High (Apr 3, 2021)

kdub said:


> Not what us with the Drop THX AAA 789 wanted to hear. I find my SMSL SU-9 > Drop THX AAA 789 a bit bright and harsh. Now I am wondering if changing the amp or dac will yield bigger difference. Was hoping the SA-1 would smooth things out. Was also considering changing the dac to SMSL M400 or a R2R like the Denafrips Ares II. Btw hp are Senn HD6XX and Focal Stellia.


Maybe I am mixing up the SMSL components but doesn’t the SU-9 have coloration.  Try the Tube or Rich ones with the higher number (Tube3, Rich3) Do you find they have any affect?


----------



## Cat Music

quawn0418 said:


> So after a couple of days with the sa-1 here are my thoughts, coming from a thx 887 it’s not a huge jump forward, very minimal actually...i definitely prefer the class A fullness that comes with it, but if you have a thx amp you shouldn’t be hard pressed to upgrade, I may even return the sa-1 and look into a tube hybrid. The mids are there with the sa-1 just a tad bit more...and sometimes it was extremely hard to tell. Great amp, but if you have a thx amp you are fine, look into something else. I noticed no difference in stage and separation. Zeos is just being zeos.


I'm curious which headphones and dac you paired for the comparison of the THX 887 to the SA-1.
When you say that you do not consider it an upgrade to your THX 788, do you mean that the SA-1 has the same performance as the THX 788 in sound quality related to technical aspects (Resolution, Transparency, Image, Soundstage, etc.)? since the fact that they coincide in technical capabilities does not mean that they necessarily sound the same, perhaps the characteristic flavor of each amplifier (depending on the amplifier's own implementation) can result in 2 different experiences, in such a way that an amplifier can sound the frequencies softer highs or give more body to the frequencies, or perhaps you are looking for precision in an amplifier above realism? I do not know, I am speculating and that is why I would like to understand your thoughts better.
By the way, what sound signature do you prefer? And what genre of music do you listen to the most? which may also help me better understand your conclusions on SA-1.
Sorry, I know there are a lot of questions, but I have a feeling that your final thoughts on the SA-1 compared to the THX 887 leave a lot of loose ends as I see it, especially since there aren't many experiences on SA -1, and I think it could also be useful for the community interested in this thread, thanks for your understanding!


----------



## Fly2High (Apr 3, 2021)

I am the other way.  I do not know the audiophile abilities of anyone on these forums.  When I hear that one amp has slight improvements over another, even slight, that means they are noticeable.  That may be all someone needs to improve on the pairing with their headphones.  I read this in your response comparing the THX 887:
1.  SA-1 has a fullness over the 887
2.  Not as tubie as tube amps
3.  Slightly more mids than 887 but dependent on the recording
4.  sound stage and depth similar to 887

To me that says a lot.  887 is touted as critical, more neutral sound.  For me, I want accuracy and some warmth with good definition of the highs like cymbal strikes and such.  So far, this sounds to me like the SA-1 is right where I want it to be.

Will find out in a week or two I guess.

I also did a quick search and found these comments (included the links).


This guys said this (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-16102819)


> I think sound quality is on par (may be better) with A90. It has better bass control when I am using HD650.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another said thishttps://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-16134865)



> I've given it a listen for a few hours and it's fantastic. I also ordered some jumpers for the DC cap bypass and will test that soon but as-is it's decent. T*he Jot2 has more treble energy however the SA-1 is definitely more even. The bass presentation on Jot2 is more inviting however, SA-1 is neutral and tight.* Drives the HE6 just fine as well. I got a bit of listening fatigue though that seems to happen to me sometimes on hyper-measurement focused gear. Will give it a few more days of testing to see if it settles into my stack nicely. The amp seems to run warmer when not in use than when running headphones. It doesn't get hot which is nice, especially given the power output. It's less powerful than the Jot2 which IMO is a good thing. Jot2 is just through the roof.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another said this for the sound: (https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/singxer-sa-1-balanced-class-a/20356/17)



> I also received my SA-1 yesterday. Currently comparing especially with the A90 to determine which one to keep or if it’s worth it to keep both.* At the moment I prefer the lush sound of the SA-1. It’s smoother and more alive at the same time compared to the A90*. I especially prefer my Arya on the Singxer. *Those on the A90 can sound a little bit clinical and lifeless.* That was the main reason I wanted to try the SA-1 and for now I think it’s giving me exactly what I was hoping for. Even on low gain it has plenty of power.
> *My Aeolus and Celestee also sound very nice on it. Normally I listen especially Aeolus only on tubes. I still prefer them on tubes but the Singxer is also more enjoyable than the A90. I guess pure linearity is just not my preferred sound signature.*
> 
> Btw: I’m also using *the Singxer also as a Pre for my Adam T5V. Don’t know if I’m imagining it but they sound quite a bit fuller and more punchy.* It’s hard to A/B so I can’t compare directly.
> ...



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another comment on sound: (https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/kh2sgy/singxer_sa1_fully_balanced_discrete_class_a/)



> Yes, three people tried both and all prefer SA-1, *better dynamic and clearer sound with slight warmer tone*. Also you can bypass the internal DC Cap which will take this amp another level. I have SA-1 and I compare it to Topping L30 with Focal Clear.
> 
> I can't listen to L30 any more




From these, I think the comments you made, quawn0418,  are spot on.  Also, I think it describes the sound I would like most.  Dynamic, clear, fullness with a slight warmth.



Thank you for your comments on this quawn0418.


----------



## nekky

Fly2High said:


> I am the other way.  I do not know the audiophile abilities of anyone on these forums.  When I hear that one amp has slight improvements over another, even slight, that means they are noticeable.  That may be all someone needs to improve on the pairing with their headphones.  I read this in your response comparing the THX 887:
> 1.  SA-1 has a fullness over the 887
> 2.  Not as tubie as tube amps
> 3.  Slightly more mids than 887 but dependent on the recording
> ...


Thank you for that very well-thought-out read!


----------



## J Mirra

I have moved from the RNHP to the Singxer SA-1 using the Sennheiser HD800 dupont mod. I produce music and my DAC reflects that as I am using the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4.

I have gained more soundstage (as i knew I would because the RNHP amp is an imaging and speed king IMO) The RNHP sounds like music in an anechoic chamber in a good way which i really enjoy.

I have more dynamics and bass presence, speed is still great just not the hardwired to my brain speed of the RNHP, imagining is still great, slightly more highs.

I think those that have purchased the SA-1 and are waiting for it to arrive will be pleased with their choice.


----------



## quawn0418 (Apr 3, 2021)

arar said:


> That's surprising to hear. I know audiophiles tend to overexaggerate the differences (at least to my hearing, "massive" changes are... rarely that) but "very minimal" between one that's supposed to be leaning towards musical and/or warm and one that's supposed to be analytical and sterile, huh. Well, I've still got a Magni 3 so I'm sure it'll be an upgrade from that, anyway.
> 
> Has anyone compared the SA-1 to RebelAmp and Flux Labs FA-12? Sound-wise, specifically. I'm looking to add a bit of that supposed Class A smoothness to my setup and those three seem to be the top budget picks.





Cat Music said:


> I'm curious which headphones and dac you paired for the comparison of the THX 887 to the SA-1.
> When you say that you do not consider it an upgrade to your THX 788, do you mean that the SA-1 has the same performance as the THX 788 in sound quality related to technical aspects (Resolution, Transparency, Image, Soundstage, etc.)? since the fact that they coincide in technical capabilities does not mean that they necessarily sound the same, perhaps the characteristic flavor of each amplifier (depending on the amplifier's own implementation) can result in 2 different experiences, in such a way that an amplifier can sound the frequencies softer highs or give more body to the frequencies, or perhaps you are looking for precision in an amplifier above realism? I do not know, I am speculating and that is why I would like to understand your thoughts better.
> By the way, what sound signature do you prefer? And what genre of music do you listen to the most? which may also help me better understand your conclusions on SA-1.
> Sorry, I know there are a lot of questions, but I have a feeling that your final thoughts on the SA-1 compared to the THX 887 leave a lot of loose ends as I see it, especially since there aren't many experiences on SA -1, and I think it could also be useful for the community interested in this thread, thanks for your understanding!


So I A/B’d the amps using the rme adi-2...I’m into vocals, so I listen to a lot of sam smith, Adele, tones and I, I even ran some Sinatra through them. And again, the singxer is the better amp, but it’s just by a hair. You make me want to listen even more lol. But if it will help I did decide to keep the singxer, will be selling the thx this week.

The singxer had better mids, and when I say better I mean just a tad bit. You really have to listen for it. Stage and separation sounded the same. Dynamics were actually better on the thx to me. But I’m not really into dynamics. I prefer a smoother fuller sorta compressed sound. Anyhow, the singxer isn’t that. It’s better than the 887 and bit more musical, JUST BY A HAIR, but not $250 better. I think we’ve just grown tired of the thx amps. That’s not to say that they aren’t really nice amps for the price. They are quite amazing actually. I will say this. Zeos’s review was inaccurate, and I don’t see me pulling the trigger on anything he recommends again. I bought the gl2000 because he raved about it being better than the Arya sold it after a month. The singxer will stay, but only because it is the better amp of the 2. It’s no where near as “fun” as he described.


----------



## kdub

Fly2High said:


> Maybe I am mixing up the SMSL components but doesn’t the SU-9 have coloration.  Try the Tube or Rich ones with the higher number (Tube3, Rich3) Do you find they have any affect?


Correct but the color profiles don’t do much. Not much difference if any. Other reviewers have commented the same.


----------



## kdub

Arniesb said:


> If youre using usb as a source as stated then amp wont fix brightness that usb produce. Some might add bit of coloration so that harshness will not be as noticable.


Yes usb from Mac to su-9 dac to thx aaa 789 amp. I’m running Audirvana from mac. Didn’t know usb exhibits this bright harness. I would think majority of ppl use usb these days. I guess I’ll test SA-1 with dac once it arrives. It not enough coloration then maybe I need to also change dac as well.


----------



## arar

Interesting impressions, thanks a lot to everyone posting them! I'm looking for a sort of a... Full, warm, rich amp with a lot of slam for that sweet, sweet bass and overall just pleasant listening sessions, and I was set on getting the SA-1 but it's starting to sound like maybe that's not the best choice after all. Reading the RebelAmp's reviews on their site it's starting to sound like maybe that's the best choice for me. That or Jot 2, but I'm super wary of Jot 2 right now due to all the technical issues people have been talking about in its thread. Sucks that Schiit Europe is apparently pretty much dead. The lack of XLR out for the RebelAmp is a bummer.


----------



## kdub

Fly2High said:


> I am the other way.  I do not know the audiophile abilities of anyone on these forums.  When I hear that one amp has slight improvements over another, even slight, that means they are noticeable.  That may be all someone needs to improve on the pairing with their headphones.  I read this in your response comparing the THX 887:
> 1.  SA-1 has a fullness over the 887
> 2.  Not as tubie as tube amps
> 3.  Slightly more mids than 887 but dependent on the recording
> ...


Exactly what I am after as well. I am happy with the thx 789 detail and accuracy but just want to soften a bit with some warmth and smooth the highs a bit so not so harsh and sharp.


----------



## Arniesb

kdub said:


> Yes usb from Mac to su-9 dac to thx aaa 789 amp. I’m running Audirvana from mac. Didn’t know usb exhibits this bright harness. I would think majority of ppl use usb these days. I guess I’ll test SA-1 with dac once it arrives. It not enough coloration then maybe I need to also change dac as well.


Try if you can to use Your smarthphone as a usb source you will see how much cleaner and smoother as a source you will see how good it can sound from a clean source.
I have a laptop and even running from the battery it never sound as clean or as warm as from my S20+
It sound like a good reclocker.


----------



## quawn0418

kdub said:


> Exactly what I am after as well. I am happy with the thx 789 detail and accuracy but just want to soften a bit with some warmth and smooth the highs a bit so not so harsh and sharp.


I think you’ll like the singxer then...all’s I’m saying is to not be misled by the exaggerating going on in this thread, because I was. Just so happens that I’m going to keep the sa-1, with plans on selling the thx, but I’m still on the search for an actual warm and musical amp.


----------



## kdub

quawn0418 said:


> I think you’ll like the singxer then...all’s I’m saying is to not be misled by the exaggerating going on in this thread, because I was. Just so happens that I’m going to keep the sa-1, with plans on selling the thx, but I’m still on the search for an actual warm and musical amp.


I like to get a second amp that is more extreme warm and musical as well to switch listening preferences sometimes. If you find such amp please share. We might have to go tube amp for this route.


----------



## Pharmaboy

kdub said:


> I like to get a second amp that is more extreme warm and musical as well to switch listening preferences sometimes. If you find such amp please share. We might have to go tube amp for this route.



I wouldn't say this amp is extremely warm--but it's distinctly musical, with excellent bass & output power (SE & balanced) despite small size: try to find an original Cavalli Liquid Carbon (mine is v2, which fixed occasional channel balance issues some had w/v1). The LC is somewhat warm--but IMO more importantly, it refuses to exaggerate the upper midrange, treble, note transients and vocal sibilants, all things I've heard in some amps that advertise themselves as "neutral"/resolving.

Drop sometimes offers a larger-case version of the LC circuit, though some users report it doesn't sound identical to the LC.

You certainly could go tube--I refer to transformer-coupled tube amps that are comfortable with headphones of low & high impedance--though these tend to be larger, more expensive, and usually don't offer balanced output. I've heard a number of these amps (including one, the Woo WA22) IMS. As a group they offer all manner of sonic upgrades vs SS, and not just warm vs cold tonality stuff. These are relatively subtle, but meaningful sonic differences IMO.


----------



## pankar0

I found a new review...
https://soundperfectionreviews.com/review-singxer-sa-1-class-a-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## quawn0418

pankar0 said:


> I found a new review...
> https://soundperfectionreviews.com/review-singxer-sa-1-class-a-headphone-amplifier/


Really good and accurate review


----------



## Fly2High

pankar0 said:


> I found a new review...
> https://soundperfectionreviews.com/review-singxer-sa-1-class-a-headphone-amplifier/



Wow, so many here hit the nail on the head.  Either we have some really skilled listeners here or they are moonlighting as reviewers!! .  From that review, I will love the SA01.  I do not think I want the sound colored like that of a tube amp  but at the same time I do not want pure analytical and tiring.  I think the SA-1 will fill the line of being detailed, smooth slight warmth with just enough to have extended listening sessions without being fatiguing.  

Accuracy without fatigue and a slight warmth and tight and impactful bass.  I think that would be perfect to me


----------



## kdub

VeeAndBobby said:


> I haven't heard either of the Cavalli Audio amps you mentioned, but if considering that price range, you might consider the Burson Soloist 3X. Of the amps I now own, I would rank them in the following order. The Burson outclasses the others by a considerable margin, even though I really like the Singxer too.
> 1. Burson Soloist 3X
> 2. Singxer SA-1
> 3. HeadAmp GS-X Mini
> 4. Topping A90


What do you like about the Burson Soloist 3X in terms of topping over vs Singxer SA-1? I am also considering cancelling SA-1 order and selling existing gear and just go for a Burson Conductor 3X Performance. Have you listen to this as a comparison?


----------



## quawn0418

Hey guys, just came back to tell you all that this amp has to be opening up with use or something. Now I actually do think it’s worth the extra money over the thx amps. Today it’s like the thx is flat and brighter when in comparison. The singxer has become more dynamic with better depth and smoothness while still retaining the high end and all of its details. Again, i don’t know if it’s use, or just my ears finally picking up on these things. Either way, I assure you, the singxer is growing on me more and more with each day that passes. It’s still not that full class a warm musical sound that I was looking for, but it is one damn good amp.


----------



## Pharmaboy

quawn0418 said:


> Hey guys, just came back to tell you all that this amp has to be opening up with use or something. Now I actually do think it’s worth the extra money over the thx amps. Today it’s like the thx is flat and brighter when in comparison. The singxer has become more dynamic with better depth and smoothness while still retaining the high end and all of its details. Again, i don’t know if it’s use, or just my ears finally picking up on these things. Either way, I assure you, the singxer is growing on me more and more with each day that passes. It’s still not that full class a warm musical sound that I was looking for, but it is one damn good amp.



Did you burn-in this amp, or just start using it out-of-the-box? If the latter, you're probably hearing sonic benefits of burn-in.

I'll probably start a pillow fight here by saying that, but I've found that burn-in strongly benefits the sound of many (but not all) new headphones & electronics. Because I never know which new HP, amp, or DAC will benefit from burn-in, I routinely burn in any new gear.


----------



## quawn0418

Pharmaboy said:


> Did you burn-in this amp, or just start using it out-of-the-box? If the latter, you're probably hearing sonic benefits of burn-in.
> 
> I'll probably start a pillow fight here by saying that, but I've found that burn-in strongly benefits the sound of many (but not all) new headphones & electronics. Because I never know which new HP, amp, or DAC will benefit from burn-in, I routinely burn in any new gear.


Pillow fight for sure...I will say that I do believe in burn in, but only with things like dynamic drivers, tubes, and things of those natures, but this being a class a amp maybe burn in can be a thing here.


----------



## kdub

quawn0418 said:


> Hey guys, just came back to tell you all that this amp has to be opening up with use or something. Now I actually do think it’s worth the extra money over the thx amps. Today it’s like the thx is flat and brighter when in comparison. The singxer has become more dynamic with better depth and smoothness while still retaining the high end and all of its details. Again, i don’t know if it’s use, or just my ears finally picking up on these things. Either way, I assure you, the singxer is growing on me more and more with each day that passes. It’s still not that full class a warm musical sound that I was looking for, but it is one damn good amp.


That’s awesome news to hear. How many hours of use (burn-in) until you heard the differences? I’m going to keep my SA-1 order and evaluate from there.


----------



## quawn0418

kdub said:


> That’s awesome news to hear. How many hours of use (burn-in) until you heard the differences? I’m going to keep my SA-1 order and evaluate from there.


To be honest with you, It’s just been pure listening this whole time, maybe around 15 hours or so...makes me wanna get some real hours on it, like 100+


----------



## joseG86

kdub said:


> That’s awesome news to hear. How many hours of use (burn-in) until you heard the differences? I’m going to keep my SA-1 order and evaluate from there.


I'll have it 3-4 weeks powered 24/7 and test every single day against Jot 2

If any of you have tried SA-1 and Burson 3X what's the differences you find?


----------



## Lolito

50% of burn in is your brain catching up to the missing staff and the new nuances in sound.


----------



## nekky

joseG86 said:


> I'll have it 3-4 weeks powered 24/7 and test every single day against Jot 2
> 
> If any of you have tried SA-1 and Burson 3X what's the differences you find?


Also curious as I just missed on a Soloist 3XP for $500 USD....


----------



## quawn0418

nekky said:


> Also curious as I just missed on a Soloist 3XP for $500 USD....


Ouch!


----------



## nekky

quawn0418 said:


> Ouch!


By a few minutes on craigslist, no joke. Pretty bummed. But then I scored some Focal Elegia for similar money, so am still happy.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Apr 4, 2021)

quawn0418 said:


> Pillow fight for sure...I will say that I do believe in burn in, but only with things like dynamic drivers, tubes, and things of those natures, but this being a class a amp maybe burn in can be a thing here.



When I bought my first NOS DAC, the Audio GD NOS 19, people on Audio GD boards for its sister-DAC, the pretty well known multibit DAC-19, warned that over 300 hours was needed for the sound to fully settle down--and 400 hours was preferable. I thought they must be out of their minds.

Well, they weren't. I used the NOS 19 as my main desktop system's DAC from day-1 with low volume classical music streaming ~12 hrs/day to speakers + sub. From day-1, the sound of this DAC was wildly variable: one day it would sound muffled, closed, dull; and the next it would sound wide-open but bright and edgy. Weeks went by and these changes slowed down in frequency and became lower in amplitude until finally, after ~400 hrs total, the sound stopped changing (I loved that  sound BTW). Later I got my own new DAC-19, which I still use in the side system. I burned the DAC-19 in on the main system and it behaved exactly as the NOS 19 had, with >400 hrs burn-in needed to stabilize.

I also had some startling experiences w/new headphones that started pretty ragged sounding then got way better. After all that, I stopped fighting it & just burn-in everything...


----------



## Kafé

quawn0418 said:


> Hey guys, just came back to tell you all that this amp has to be opening up with use or something. Now I actually do think it’s worth the extra money over the thx amps. Today it’s like the thx is flat and brighter when in comparison. The singxer has become more dynamic with better depth and smoothness while still retaining the high end and all of its details. Again, i don’t know if it’s use, or just my ears finally picking up on these things. Either way, I assure you, the singxer is growing on me more and more with each day that passes. It’s still not that full class a warm musical sound that I was looking for, but it is one damn good amp.


Thank you for your comment, with which Dac and which headphones are you testing the SA-1 ?


----------



## quawn0418

Kafé said:


> Thank you for your comment, with which Dac and which headphones are you testing the SA-1 ?


RME ADI 2 DAC AND HIFIMAN ARYA’S...WHICH IF YOU KNOW BOTH OF THEM YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND WHY IM LOOKING FOR SOME WARMTH


----------



## Kafé (Apr 5, 2021)

quawn0418 said:


> RME ADI 2 DAC AND HIFIMAN ARYA’S...WHICH IF YOU KNOW BOTH OF THEM YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND WHY IM LOOKING FOR SOME WARMTH


and by using the equalizer of the RME you do not get an improvement ?


----------



## Muataz

quawn0418 said:


> RME ADI 2 DAC AND HIFIMAN ARYA’S...WHICH IF YOU KNOW BOTH OF THEM YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND WHY IM LOOKING FOR SOME WARMTH


I think you can add warmth by increasing the amp bais to more current but you need some expertise. I think it is running with 30mA and maybe jumping to 60mA will warm it up.

https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/bias_e.html

I never done it and I will try to understand it and experiment my self


----------



## quawn0418

Kafé said:


> and by using the equalizer of the RME you do not get an improvement ?


The equalizer certainly helps, but it doesn’t add that good ol’ natural analog warmth that we drool over


----------



## Dopaminer

Tracking just announced mine has cleared customs and should be in my hands tomorrow.

Dying to join the SA-1 + Arya search-for-analogwarmth team. 

I am also interested in doing the mod with the jumper.


----------



## quawn0418

Dopaminer said:


> Tracking just announced mine has cleared customs and should be in my hands tomorrow.
> 
> Dying to join the SA-1 + Arya search-for-analogwarmth team.
> 
> I am also interested in doing the mod with the jumper.


What dac do you use?


----------



## Dopaminer

quawn0418 said:


> What dac do you use?



For now, Topping DX7 (ESS).


----------



## Pharmaboy

quawn0418 said:


> good ol’ natural analog warmth that we drool over



YES!


----------



## nekky

Dopaminer said:


> Tracking just announced mine has cleared customs and should be in my hands tomorrow.
> 
> Dying to join the SA-1 + Arya search-for-analogwarmth team.
> 
> I am also interested in doing the mod with the jumper.


Lucky guy.


----------



## Jay_vs

My order has been delayed due to no stock. So sad


----------



## Lolito

out of stock everywhere for this


----------



## Fly2High

good problem for Singxer to have.  Everyone wants their product.  Let's hope in this age of COVID that they are able to fulfill the orders in a reasonable amount of time.

All I can do at this point is wait patiently.


----------



## Lolito

If I was in USA I would have already a Jot2 or a Magnius.

or somehting from Gheselli labs. But I am not in USA, LOL!


----------



## nekky

Lolito said:


> If I was in USA I would have already a Jot2 or a Magnius.
> 
> or somehting from Gheselli labs. But I am not in USA, LOL!


Happy to sell you either my Archel2.5 Pro or my Erish if you really want one in Europe.


----------



## arar

I've got another month to go before I can really splurge on one of these ~500 euro amps anyway so waiting patiently sounds good to me. Hopefully a bunch of you will get the SA-1 in the mean time, though, and post some more impressions - I'm having a hell of a hard time trying to decide if I want this, or the Jot 2, or the RebelAmp, or one of the Flux Labs amps, or...


----------



## Lolito

nekky said:


> Happy to sell you either my Archel2.5 Pro or my Erish if you really want one in Europe.


I don't really want one of those, I need xlr with pre amp outs


----------



## domiji

I will receive my SA-1 tomorrow and was wondering if i can safely use the DC-jumper method with my Singxer SDA 6 Pro. 

Does anyone have expierence with that?

Thanks a lot


----------



## Fly2High

domiji said:


> I will receive my SA-1 tomorrow and was wondering if i can safely use the DC-jumper method with my Singxer SDA 6 Pro.
> 
> Does anyone have expierence with that?
> 
> Thanks a lot


Why not see how it sounds without doing the jumper first?  How much better can it be if at all?  I would think the made the synergy as best as possible as sold.


----------



## nekky

Lolito said:


> I don't really want one of those, I need xlr with pre amp outs


No problem! I plan on preamping both with the SA-1 via RCA (Archel) and XLR (Erish). The Archel is great but also sounds better when being fed by XLR, so ultimately it will be up for sale unless it just sits, which is fine too. They’re both such great amps.


----------



## Lolito

As other people mentioned already in this forum, the Singxer is as good as good as a GSX Mini, also full class A. Maybe there is a level in which it is really splitting hair. Experience will be different of course, aesthetics, reliability, the ladder knob, color anodized, toroidal PSU. Then again some people also say Burson is better. And then some other youtube reviewer said the burson sounds just like most other good amps... so... waiting for stock. Long life to the hype train!!!!


----------



## nekky

Lolito said:


> As other people mentioned already in this forum, the Singxer is as good as good as a GSX Mini, also full class A. Maybe there is a level in which it is really splitting hair. Experience will be different of course, aesthetics, reliability, the ladder knob, color anodized, toroidal PSU. Then again some people also say Burson is better. And then some other youtube reviewer said the burson sounds just like most other good amps... so... waiting for stock. Long life to the hype train!!!!



Watched today as well of course. Can’t fault Zeos for his honesty - I do enjoy watching the guy if not for the fact he seems genuinely good natured and would be a hoot to have a beer with!

...also I got a shipping notification today from DHL for something coming from Shenzhen. Fingers crossed it shows before the weekend but I don’t have my hopes up.


----------



## Lolito

Best of luck with DHL, in one month they lost me 388€ in one order from amazon, got refunded. And then a parcel I shipped to Italy with them, also lost, 122€ lost... not refunded there, I was the sender... covid logistics...


----------



## Firevortex (Apr 7, 2021)

Lolito said:


> out of stock everywhere for this



was curious about this amp for paring with the Aria. had a look around and saw the official shop on Taobao in china they have heaps of stock and it costs $560USD
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...o9nbu&id=631626338112&ns=1&abbucket=18#detail
Looks like a small chifi DIY brand thats been around for 12yrs...

you can get a shopping agent like https://www.superbuy.com/en/ to get it and ship it out for you.


----------



## kdub

Firevortex said:


> was curious about this amp for paring with the Aria. had a look around and saw the official shop on Taobao in china they have heaps of stock and it costs $560USD
> https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...o9nbu&id=631626338112&ns=1&abbucket=18#detail
> 
> you can get a shopping agent like https://www.superbuy.com/en/ to get it and ship it out for you. i've use shipping agents to get my stuff directly over seas and saved a bundle.


Managed to grab this off ShenZhen Audio when they had a sale last week for $524 usd. But have not received shipping confirmation yet so might be awhile wait unfortunately : (


----------



## Firevortex

kdub said:


> Managed to grab this off ShenZhen Audio when they had a sale last week for $524 usd. But have not received shipping confirmation yet so might be awhile wait unfortunately : (



Nice. reviews has been decent on taobao so it should be a decent amp.


----------



## kdub

Firevortex said:


> Nice. reviews has been decent on taobao so it should be a decent amp.


Hope it sounds more than just decent.  I was also considering just getting the Burson Soloist 3XP but the power is not as high as SA-1. Not sure how far different sound is between the two so thought I try the cheaper option first. But with the wait each day I am getting more tempted to ordering the Soloist as likely to ship sooner.


----------



## nekky

Missed out on a Soloist 3XP myself as I mentioned above, and had I gotten it I likely would have just quit shopping for a while.  I think it also has a mic input, which is great for closet gamer nerds like myself.


----------



## kdub

nekky said:


> Missed out on a Soloist 3XP myself as I mentioned above, and had I gotten it I likely would have just quit shopping for a while.  I think it also has a mic input, which is great for closet gamer nerds like myself.


Have you listened to the Soloist? I have not heard either so hard to decide hence buying cheaper option first.


----------



## nekky

kdub said:


> Have you listened to the Soloist? I have not heard either so hard to decide hence buying cheaper option first.


Nope I haven’t but not sure I would care as I’ve heard enough people say it’s great that I would take a chance blindly. Same as I’m doing with the SA-1.


----------



## kdub

nekky said:


> Nope I haven’t but not sure I would care as I’ve heard enough people say it’s great that I would take a chance blindly. Same as I’m doing with the SA-1.


So from what you heard from others which one would be more smooth, warmer and less treble brightness sounding amp while still revealing and high resolution in details?


----------



## nekky

kdub said:


> So from what you heard from others which one would be more smooth, warmer and less treble brightness sounding amp while still revealing and high resolution in details?


Sounds like the Singxer based on your description but I know significantly less about the Burson.


----------



## Fly2High

nekky said:


> Sounds like the Singxer based on your description but I know significantly less about the Burson.


I would have said the Burson from comments here and elsewhere but that is just based on word of mouth.  I have no experience with both.


----------



## kdub

nekky said:


> Sounds like the Singxer based on your description but I know significantly less about the Burson.


just measured my cabinet shelf. The Burson would be on the edge of too long to fit nicely so I'll stick with the SA-1 order (dimensions more similar to existing THX AAA 789 amp) and evaluate from there lol. Also read some isolated issues of some Soloist units having hissing sound issues.


----------



## marcgii

Does anyone have more comparisons between the SA-1 and other $500+ amps?  I've already gone through this whole thread, and so now I'm considering the Burson Solo 3X as well. Though I'm super tempted by the SA-1 since there's no deals on the Burson amp ATM
I also intend to get an Ares II soon.  So if someone has tried that with SA-1, please chime in.


----------



## nekky

marcgii said:


> Does anyone have more comparisons between the SA-1 and other $500+ amps?  I've already gone through this whole thread, and so now I'm considering the Burson Solo 3X as well. Though I'm super tempted by the SA-1 since there's no deals on the Burson amp ATM
> I also intend to get an Ares II soon.  So if someone has tried that with SA-1, please chime in.


Ares and SA-1 has got to be a sweet combo. Same way I feel about a potential RME ADI 2 FS / SA-1.

Beyond that, I’m looking at GSX Mk2. So nice.


----------



## JGA007

Got my SA-1 today.  Unfortunately I have no other decent amp to compare it to.   I owned my HD600s since 1997.  I always just plugged them into whatever amp or receiver I was using.  Just recently a Cambridge integrated amp, with fairly decent headphone jack.  I also went to a balanced cable.  

The first thing I noticed was the dead silent background.  Also very very clean and detailed.  I am definitely hearing all sorts of new details on my CDs,  I am also hearing a small bit of high frequency hash on some recordings, but it seams to be settling in.  I suppose I have both a new amp and cable to break in.   

It works a lot better for me on high gain,  I am using high Z and have not yet tried the lower setting.


----------



## domiji

My SA-1 is still on the way - i hope it will arrive next week and i can compare it to the A90.

I've had a Burson Conductor 3XP in the past. Sound was "good" but it doesn't blew me away. All the reviews out there set my expectations so high that the 3XP couldn't keep up with it i guess. 

To be honest... i liked my Topping DX7 Pro with Burson V6 Classic OP-Amps much more than the Conductor 3XP.


----------



## Muataz

JGA007 said:


> Got my SA-1 today.  Unfortunately I have no other decent amp to compare it to.   I owned my HD600s since 1997.  I always just plugged them into whatever amp or receiver I was using.  Just recently a Cambridge integrated amp, with fairly decent headphone jack.  I also went to a balanced cable.
> 
> The first thing I noticed was the dead silent background.  Also very very clean and detailed.  I am definitely hearing all sorts of new details on my CDs,  I am also hearing a small bit of high frequency hash on some recordings, but it seams to be settling in.  I suppose I have both a new amp and cable to break in.
> 
> It works a lot better for me on high gain,  I am using high Z and have not yet tried the lower setting.


Try more with Low-Z.


----------



## kdub

marcgii said:


> Does anyone have more comparisons between the SA-1 and other $500+ amps?  I've already gone through this whole thread, and so now I'm considering the Burson Solo 3X as well. Though I'm super tempted by the SA-1 since there's no deals on the Burson amp ATM
> I also intend to get an Ares II soon.  So if someone has tried that with SA-1, please chime in.No


No deep deals but I think on Burson's own site the Soloist 3XP is on a bit of a discount.  I definitely want to get a R2R dac down the road as well. So far the Denafrips excites me. Please let us know how the Ares II pairs with the SA-1 if you end up getting it.  I am considering such a pair myself or the Pontus (which should be very similar to Ares II in airy soundness and bit more body warmth from what I read).


----------



## kdub

JGA007 said:


> Got my SA-1 today.  Unfortunately I have no other decent amp to compare it to.   I owned my HD600s since 1997.  I always just plugged them into whatever amp or receiver I was using.  Just recently a Cambridge integrated amp, with fairly decent headphone jack.  I also went to a balanced cable.
> 
> The first thing I noticed was the dead silent background.  Also very very clean and detailed.  I am definitely hearing all sorts of new details on my CDs,  I am also hearing a small bit of high frequency hash on some recordings, but it seams to be settling in.  I suppose I have both a new amp and cable to break in.
> 
> It works a lot better for me on high gain,  I am using high Z and have not yet tried the lower setting.


For your 300 ohm hp it should be enough power on low gain and low Z. Spend more time on this to see.


----------



## JGA007

kdub said:


> For your 300 ohm hp it should be enough power on low gain and low Z. Spend more time on this to see.


Good point.  I will try.


----------



## godmax

My SA-1 arrived 2 days ago together with the Musician Pegasus. It very early to make a qualified statement, but so far I do like the unit very much (so far it might not rival my other amps 100%, but the 4.4mm Pentacon alone was enough reason for me). Even so the SA-1 is not fully class A, it powers e.g. my HP-3 as good as my other class A amplifiers.




Seems Singxer was "inspired" by the Questyle product design


----------



## simon740

godmax said:


> My SA-1 arrived 2 days ago together with the Musician Pegasus. It very early to make a qualified statement, but so far I do like the unit very much (so far it might not rival my other amps 100%, but the 4.4mm Pentacon alone was enough reason for me). Even so the SA-1 is not fully class A, it powers e.g. my HP-3 as good as my other class A amplifiers.
> 
> Seems Singxer was "inspired" by the Questyle product design


Is it Ares II a good match with SA-1? 

regards,
Simon


----------



## tamleo (Apr 11, 2021)

godmax said:


> My SA-1 arrived 2 days ago together with the Musician Pegasus. It very early to make a qualified statement, but so far I do like the unit very much (so far it might not rival my other amps 100%, but the 4.4mm Pentacon alone was enough reason for me). Even so the SA-1 is not fully class A, it powers e.g. my HP-3 as good as my other class A amplifiers.
> 
> Seems Singxer was "inspired" by the Questyle product design


Hello,
May I ask which amp has the widest soundstage of all? Tks


----------



## godmax

simon740 said:


> Is it Ares II a good match with SA-1?


I did not try the Ares II with the SA-1 yet, only with the Musician Pegasus (which is basically an modded Ares II, since designed from the same OEM team) and the Questyle CMA400i (AKM AK4490). But in general the Ares II is a very good DAC and pairs very well with any amplifier.


----------



## godmax

tamleo said:


> May I ask which amp has the widest soundstage of all? Tks


The deepest soundstage is "created" by the Violectric V281 and the widest by the Soloist 3XP.


----------



## Muataz

godmax said:


> I did not try the Ares II with the SA-1 yet, only with the Musician Pegasus (which is basically an modded Ares II, since designed from the same OEM team) and the Questyle CMA400i (AKM AK4490). But in general the Ares II is a very good DAC and pairs very well with any amplifier.


Can you feed SA-1 From CMA400i ? I think it has excellent preamp.


----------



## godmax

Muataz said:


> Can you feed SA-1 From CMA400i ? I think it has excellent preamp.


Yes, I connected the CMA400i to the SA-1 balanced with XLR (with variable output on the CMA400i selected on the back). Even the 4490 is a little outdated, it is still good enough.


----------



## simon740

godmax said:


> I did not try the Ares II with the SA-1 yet, only with the Musician Pegasus (which is basically an modded Ares II, since designed from the same OEM team) and the Questyle CMA400i (AKM AK4490). But in general the Ares II is a very good DAC and pairs very well with any amplifier.


Thank you for this info.

regards,
Simon


----------



## Shane D

godmax said:


> My SA-1 arrived 2 days ago together with the Musician Pegasus. It very early to make a qualified statement, but so far I do like the unit very much (so far it might not rival my other amps 100%, but the 4.4mm Pentacon alone was enough reason for me). Even so the SA-1 is not fully class A, it powers e.g. my HP-3 as good as my other class A amplifiers.
> 
> Seems Singxer was "inspired" by the Questyle product design


Nice collection!


----------



## joshUKUSA

godmax said:


> My SA-1 arrived 2 days ago together with the Musician Pegasus. It very early to make a qualified statement, but so far I do like the unit very much (so far it might not rival my other amps 100%, but the 4.4mm Pentacon alone was enough reason for me). Even so the SA-1 is not fully class A, it powers e.g. my HP-3 as good as my other class A amplifiers.
> 
> Seems Singxer was "inspired" by the Questyle product design


Definitely interested in hearing a comparison between the gs-x mini, sa-1 and soloist, only person I've heard compared the headamp and the singxer is zeos and I think I only ever agree with that guy like 10% of the time


----------



## Lolito

godmax said:


> I did not try the Ares II with the SA-1 yet, only with the Musician Pegasus (which is basically an modded Ares II, since designed from the same OEM team) and the Questyle CMA400i (AKM AK4490). But in general the Ares II is a very good DAC and pairs very well with any amplifier.


Once the sa1 is burned in, let us know how do you like it compared to the rest. Thanks!


----------



## Pharmaboy

godmax said:


> My SA-1 arrived 2 days ago together with the Musician Pegasus. It very early to make a qualified statement, but so far I do like the unit very much (so far it might not rival my other amps 100%, but the 4.4mm Pentacon alone was enough reason for me). Even so the SA-1 is not fully class A, it powers e.g. my HP-3 as good as my other class A amplifiers.
> 
> Seems Singxer was "inspired" by the Questyle product design



V281! (my favorite amp/preamp ever). How does the SA-1 compare to the V281 sonically?


----------



## Pharmaboy

joshUKUSA said:


> only person I've heard compared the headamp and the singxer is zeos and I think I only ever agree with that guy like 10% of the time



10% beats my agreement stat. When I first got into this hobby I was dazzled by the first couple Z videos I saw. The dude has more gear than God and can make any comparison he wants. But after awhile, I had to stop watching--he rarely makes  straightforward, non-fanboy sonic characterizations, and most of the comps are of the verbal drive-by type w/little detail. Then there's his disturbing tendency to gush/overpraise ~25% of the gear that passes through his hands.

I don't need anybody to amplify the hype train for me. I _do_ need the rational comments and observations of others (here & elsewhere) to minimize the hype train, or at least, put it into some perspective...


----------



## godmax

Shane D said:


> Nice collection!


Thanks! ... I guess support too many manufactures (audio gear hoarder syndrom™)


joshUKUSA said:


> Definitely interested in hearing a comparison between the gs-x mini, sa-1 and soloist, only person I've heard compared the headamp and the singxer is zeos and I think I only ever agree with that guy like 10% of the time





Pharmaboy said:


> 10% beats my agreement stat. When I first got into this hobby I was dazzled by the first couple Z videos I saw. The dude has more gear than God and can make any comparison he wants. But after awhile, I had to stop watching--he rarely makes straightforward, non-fanboy sonic characterizations, and most of the comps are of the verbal drive-by type w/little detail. Then there's his disturbing tendency to gush/overpraise ~25% of the gear that passes through his hands.


Will take some more time for me to really make an educated guess , but from the first impressions of the SA-1 vs. the GS-X mini, they share definitely some characteristics, but I would not go that far, that SA-1 and GS-X mini sound undistinguishable the same (like Z did ... but after his video qualifying the Focal Clear as the "Beats of Focal" I cannot take his judgements seriously most of the time).


Pharmaboy said:


> V281! (my favorite amp/preamp ever). How does the SA-1 compare to the V281 sonically?


Also very early for me to tell, but so far the SA-1 is not quite up to the level of the V281 (especially comparing sound stage depth) - well that is expected and its the way it should be  . But the SA-1 can power my Klipsch HP-3 (up to 1800mW) better than the V281 to my liking. The paring of the Musician Pegasus DAC (extra soundstage width) together with V281 (extra soundstage depth) I currently really like.


----------



## kdub (Apr 11, 2021)

godmax said:


> The deepest soundstage is "created" by the Violectric V281 and the widest by the Soloist 3XP.


Other than wide soundstage do you hear any other sonic superiority from Soloist 3XP vs SA-1? This was my other strong consideration when ordering the Singxer.


----------



## Chamade

Just ordered one of these to pair with the Arya and will feed it from an iFi Micro BL and Honey H1. Hoping for a sonic upgrade as I never owned a desktop amp.


----------



## godmax

kdub said:


> Other than wide soundstage do you hear any other sonic superiority from Soloist 3XP vs SA-1? This was my other strong consideration when ordering the Singxer.


Also take my words with grain of salt since I did not hear both amps side-by-side with the same source yet, but the Soloist has a overall „leaner“ presentation than the SA-1 (and also the GS-X mini or V281), but that brings also more details and nuances. Especially with bass emphasised headphones this can be favorable (e.g. my EMU Teaks just sound more „educated“ on the Soloist 😇). So this is more a question of personal preference. Both are very good amps and you can’t go wrong either of these two.


----------



## kdub

godmax said:


> Also take my words with grain of salt since I did not hear both amps side-by-side with the same source yet, but the Soloist has a overall „leaner“ presentation than the SA-1 (and also the GS-X mini or V281), but that brings also more details and nuances. Especially with bass emphasised headphones this can be favorable (e.g. my EMU Teaks just sound more „educated“ on the Soloist 😇). So this is more a question of personal preference. Both are very good amps and you can’t go wrong either of these two.


Thanks for more comparison info on this. The Stellia are quite resolving so maybe something with more fuller body would be a nice pair like the SA-1. Yeah not sure I want to add more lean sound into the chain. Just ordered an Allo USBridge Signature Player streamer last night to add to the chain. Will see if it makes a difference vs sending music from Audirvana on the Mac mini. Moode player suppose to be quite good sq from  other’s comments.


----------



## Nitrium (Apr 11, 2021)

Anybody here got the SA-1 paired with an RME ADI-2 FS DAC? I’m struggling a little bit with the output volume of mine. Even on XLR, the RME doesn’t seem to be outputting enough for the SA-1, to the point that I have to increase the volume to the 3 o’clock mark. Looking for a suggestion on the line out config on the ADI-2 - I’m current running it at ref. level 13dBu / -5.0 dB and it’s getting right there on the yellow mark


----------



## quawn0418

Nitrium said:


> Anybody here got the SA-1 paired with an RME ADI-2 FS DAC? I’m struggling a little bit with the output volume of mine. Even on XLR, the RME doesn’t seem to be outputting enough for the SA-1, to the point that I have to increase the volume to the 3 o’clock mark. Looking for a suggestion on the line out config on the ADI-2 - I’m current running it at ref. level 13dBu / -5.0 dB and it’s getting right there on the yellow mark


What headphones are you using?


----------



## Nitrium

quawn0418 said:


> What headphones are you using?


Focal Elex via XLR. Got a bunch others to try. Haven’t messed with the gain switches on the bottom, and this is Low-Z.


----------



## Lolito

I would suggest to do some burn in for the new sa1 amps... let them roll a bit.


----------



## quawn0418

Nitrium said:


> Focal Elex via XLR. Got a bunch others to try. Haven’t messed with the gain switches on the bottom, and this is Low-Z.


Well i have the Arya’s and I’m loud enough with those right before 3 o clock on the same ref level and volume if that helps, not sure how hard the elex are to drive but the Arya’s need a fair bit of juice


----------



## Nitrium

quawn0418 said:


> Well i have the Arya’s and I’m loud enough with those right before 3 o clock on the same ref level and volume if that helps, not sure how hard the elex are to drive but the Arya’s need a fair bit of juice


 And Low-Z and switches on the bottom on what I assume is low gain?


----------



## quawn0418

Nitrium said:


> And Low-Z and switches on the bottom on what I assume is low gain?


I prefer hi z and switches on bottom are on high, do you have your switches all set to high?


----------



## Nitrium

quawn0418 said:


> I prefer hi z and switches on bottom are on high, do you have your switches all set to high?


Actually, I don't. I'm going to give it a shot. Another question: does this amp needs some warming up time in your experience?


----------



## joshUKUSA

Has anyone tried these with a susvara or he-6? Wondering whether this amp is capable of getting the most out of those famously inefficient cans


----------



## quawn0418

Nitrium said:


> Actually, I don't. I'm going to give it a shot. Another question: does this amp needs some warming up time in your experience?


Switching them all to high will certainly help, and yes I find that it improves with 15 maybe 20 minutes after a cold start.


----------



## Nitrium

quawn0418 said:


> Switching them all to high will certainly help, and yes I find that it improves with 15 maybe 20 minutes after a cold start.


Thanks, I'll try that tonight!


----------



## Nitrium

quawn0418 said:


> Switching them all to high will certainly help, and yes I find that it improves with 15 maybe 20 minutes after a cold start.


Ok, wow, now it really came alive. Anything over 9 oclock is deafening now. Thanks, I might actually just go with Low Gain on this one.


----------



## joseG86

I wanna get mine asap... Contacted shenzen today and they always say: "we will send soon" lol


----------



## Nitrium

joseG86 said:


> I wanna get mine asap... Contacted shenzen today and they always say: "we will send soon" lol



Yeah, same for me, it took about three days after I got the e-mail. They're not the fastest but you'll get it soon.


----------



## Lolito

The distributor in my country says they have told him it is shipped, but no tracking yet. They told me still 15-22 april are the expected dates for arrival of the amps.


----------



## kdub

Nitrium said:


> Ok, wow, now it really came alive. Anything over 9 oclock is deafening now. Thanks, I might actually just go with Low Gain on this one.


Mine has shipped finally. Expected this week sometime. Will update everyone how it sounds compare to the existing Drop THX AAA 789 pair with a SMSL SU-9 dac.  I have an Allo USBridge Signature Player streamer on the way. Will compare Audirvana from Mac mini vs using the streamer later when it arrives next month.


----------



## Lolito

kdub said:


> Mine has shipped finally. Expected this week sometime. Will update everyone how it sounds compare to the existing Drop THX AAA 789 pair with a SMSL SU-9 dac.  I have an Allo USBridge Signature Player streamer on the way. Will compare Audirvana from Mac mini vs using the streamer later when it arrives next month.



I also use Mac and Audirvana. Remember this class A(A-A/B) amp it needs a bit of time to sound properly, apparently. Give it some time folks before drawing final conclusions, other buyers experienced the same thing, they said... I think before may they will all be delivered, all of those who already have ordered earlier in the month. Covid+sweppes canal+logistics crazy worldwide+end of chinese new year, not good.


----------



## Nitrium

kdub said:


> Mine has shipped finally. Expected this week sometime. Will update everyone how it sounds compare to the existing Drop THX AAA 789 pair with a SMSL SU-9 dac.  I have an Allo USBridge Signature Player streamer on the way. Will compare Audirvana from Mac mini vs using the streamer later when it arrives next month.


Funny, that's the same config I own - SU-9 with THX 789. And I now have an RME ADI-2 FS DAC outputting to the Singxer SA-1.


----------



## Fly2High (Apr 12, 2021)

I do not have any real basis to draw from and am very new to this hobby but compared to the best I had (1990 Onkyo receiver), the Gustard X16 and Singxer SA-1 is amazing!  The clarity on my Hifiman Sundara is just beautiful.  If I had to call it, it has a warm tone but then again I am currently listening to Chris Botti and his trumpet had a warmth to it.  Listened prior to that to Billy Joel Lullabye and it was great.  Love the highs and there is definitely more bass now with this than the old receiver.  Then some Han Halen 51/50 and I was afraid the Sundara would lack bass but there it was to my surprise!   Enough punch without being booming.  Next was the free Spotify Dead Poet's Society.  Curious how the pipes and the tinkling beginning would sound.  Then to Game of Thrones.  Windmills of your Mind by Michela Lombardi was crystal clear and every hit of the drum and cymbals with the brush was as if I could hear each filament strike.  The plucking of the string bass you can hear how the string is stretched and the note changes with each pluck.  I will say that I almost want a slight touch more brightness only in her voice otherwise it was amazing.

With the Sundara on low gain, I am at about 3 O'clock on the dial for comfortable listening but I tend to like it a little louder than most.  I would not be surprised many would listen on 1 or 2 o'clock.  I switched to high gain and I only moved the dial down to 1 o'clock.  Not sure which gain I prefer but both drive them well.

On a few songs, there could have been more bass.  Sundara are what they are.  VH Seventh Seal needed more punch but was very clear.  Then again, I have only heard these songs through lousy stuff so who am I to judge.

Now I am using the cheapest RCA I had to connect them.  Better cables are on their way.  I also would like to get a reasonable balanced cable for the Sundara, if you have any recommendations, let me know.

Very impressed with the clarity and the sound is how I would want it.  It has enough sparkle for the highs to be clear for me and yet it doesn't overpower the mids and bass.  I like the balance overall.  Still lots of learning to do as to what to look for and how to detect all the subtle differences in gear but I am just blown away by this stack.  Being my first DAC and HPA, that was bound to happen with just about anything I got.  It is so much better than the built in motherboard outputs and and is slightly better than the receiver but definitely noticeable.  What blows me away is hearing the sound differences between each source and how they express the music.  No EQ on any of the components.  

Very happy and cannot wait for it to be fully broken in.  I was surprised how much the Sundara changed after putting over 150+ hours on them.  Some of the sparkle/brightness is gone but now it is just enough instead of prominent.   I never felt they were too much.  Wonder how this stack will sound a a couple weeks of listening.

All the best to all of you who have one on order.


----------



## kdub

Nitrium said:


> Funny, that's the same config I own - SU-9 with THX 789. And I now have an RME ADI-2 FS DAC outputting to the Singxer SA-1.


how do you compare the RME vs SU-9 dac connected to the SA-1 or in general? I am on the fence about keeping my SU-9 or not.


----------



## deafenears

joshUKUSA said:


> Has anyone tried these with a susvara or he-6? Wondering whether this amp is capable of getting the most out of those famously inefficient cans


Would be interested in knowing this as well. Especially the HE6SEv2.


----------



## nekky

Just got mine today, and I’ll keep it short for now because I’m on my phone. 

I had my first wow moment today with this amp and my Aeon Open Xs. It is very, very good so far to my ear.


----------



## Nitrium

kdub said:


> how do you compare the RME vs SU-9 dac connected to the SA-1 or in general? I am on the fence about keeping my SU-9 or not.


 I'm seriously considering selling the SU-9. Just because I can just split the XLR signal from the RME to both the THX 789 and the SA-1. And the Singxer has the pre-amp connection to my Loxjie P20 and my Valhalla 2... so yeah. The RME is quite capable as a "pure" DAC, and, honestly, I use the SE from time to time because of the different profiles per output (as in, I can keep an EQ profile lined up for the Phones output and always plug my Ananda or Elex there).


----------



## kdub

Nitrium said:


> I'm seriously considering selling the SU-9. Just because I can just split the XLR signal from the RME to both the THX 789 and the SA-1. And the Singxer has the pre-amp connection to my Loxjie P20 and my Valhalla 2... so yeah. The RME is quite capable as a "pure" DAC, and, honestly, I use the SE from time to time because of the different profiles per output (as in, I can keep an EQ profile lined up for the Phones output and always plug my Ananda or Elex there).


I'm planning to sell the THX 789 as I expect the SA-1 to be better. Interesting you are keeping both. You find them different?


----------



## Nitrium

kdub said:


> I'm planning to sell the THX 789 as I expect the SA-1 to be better. Interesting you are keeping both. You find them different?


A bit too early to tell. As you know, the THX 789 is as transparent as it gets, while the Singxer sounds, so far, a bit... different. Not worse or better, just different. I *might* keep the THX just to have a reference, but I don't know yet. Need more testing.


----------



## Chamade

Nitrium said:


> A bit too early to tell. As you know, the THX 789 is as transparent as it gets, while the Singxer sounds, so far, a bit... different. Not worse or better, just different. I *might* keep the THX just to have a reference, but I don't know yet. Need more testing.


That should be the case...those two are supposed to compliment each other and not replace each other.


----------



## bithloman

deafenears said:


> Would be interested in knowing this as well. Especially the HE6SEv2.


He6se needs jotunheim 2 4 or 5 watts per channel minimum


----------



## kdub

Chamade said:


> That should be the case...those two are supposed to compliment each other and not replace each other.


Maybe I’ll need to test and end up keeping both after all haha


----------



## Nitrium

kdub said:


> Maybe I’ll need to test and end up keeping both after all haha


<insert thinking.gif here>


----------



## Qupie (Apr 13, 2021)

I have read not so great things about the single ended performance of this amp. Do you guys find that true from first hand experience? And if so, is that for the output to headphone, the input from DAC (RCA), or both? Is this amp worth it for someone who only has RCA dac and single ended headphones? Some headphones might get a balanced cable upgrade one day, but not all can, and my gaming DAC only outputs RCA.

Really amazed how many good reviews this amp is getting!

edit: also, if one would buy a separate balanced DAC for this, has anyone figured out a way to create a neat stack? Somewhat obsessed by that LMAO.


----------



## godmax

Qupie said:


> I have read not so great things about the single ended performance of this amp. Do you guys find that true from first hand experience? And if so, is that for the output to headphone, the input from DAC (RCA), or both? Is this amp worth it for someone who only has RCA dac and single ended headphones? Some headphones might get a balanced cable upgrade one day, but not all can, and my gaming DAC only outputs RCA.
> 
> Really amazed how many good reviews this amp is getting!
> 
> edit: also, if one would buy a separate balanced DAC for this, has anyone figured out a way to create a neat stack? Somewhat obsessed by that LMAO.


I just switched the same headphone from balanced to single ended (Hart Audio Cables system), did not hear any significant changes, besides you need to adjust the volume again, since lower power output. I also use my "main" DAC for the Singxer (Musician Pegasus) connected by RCA to the SA-1 ... also no major differences to XLR (if so thats by the DAC itself). So I would assume you can use it fully SE both for input and output with no major degradation in sound quality (if any at all).
Singxer itself has a DAC, but that has not same size (and is much more expensive), but you can many options like (RME ADI-2 DAC, Gustard X16/A18, Topping etc.)


----------



## J Mirra

Qupie said:


> I have read not so great things about the single ended performance of this amp. Do you guys find that true from first hand experience? And if so, is that for the output to headphone, the input from DAC (RCA), or both? Is this amp worth it for someone who only has RCA dac and single ended headphones?


I am using single ended from my 4i4 the SA-1 then single ended to my HD800 and they have dynamics and punch, great sound stage when the recordings production has these attributes. I can drive them loud with no harshness.

I have not noticed any post's about the single ended being bad, it sounds great to me.


----------



## NascentAP

Hi all, this is my first post after months of lurking. In the past year, I started getting into mid-fi gear and one of the most recent product I purchased is the SA-1. My main set up consists of Amazon Music HD -> (USB) Denafrips Ares II -> (XLR) SA-1. I primarily use Hifiman Arya and Focal Elex both balanced using Hart audio cable. I bought the SA-1 because I was not happy with the Topping A90's sound as well as the impedance mismatch between the Ares II and A90 using balanced connections. Having listened to the SA-1 for few hours, SA-1 sounds like what I expected the A90 to sound like.

Other have already mentioned several key characteristics of the SA-1 and they were immediately apparent (i.e. better bass and ever so slightly warmer sound) relative to the A90. However, SA-1 also has a noticeably better transient response (or decay) that makes cymbal and drum hits sound very defined/snappy and I wonder whether this contributes further to the impression of a better bass performance.

I also have the Emotiva BasX-100, which is also a class A/B amp, and although the bass response on it is amazing (especially on the Elex), I don't use it very it often due to the upper frequencies sounding dithered and not refined. The SA-1 sound signature reminds me of an amp you get when you mix the A90 and BasX-100 - it has the airy top end of the A90 while the low frequency kicks like the BasX. As I am not a huge fan of very warm sounding gear (I like the airy sparkle), the SA-1's sound signature is exactly what I was looking for and I am very happy with the purchase.


----------



## kdub

NascentAP said:


> Hi all, this is my first post after months of lurking. In the past year, I started getting into mid-fi gear and one of the most recent product I purchased is the SA-1. My main set up consists of Amazon Music HD -> (USB) Denafrips Ares II -> (XLR) SA-1. I primarily use Hifiman Arya and Focal Elex both balanced using Hart audio cable. I bought the SA-1 because I was not happy with the Topping A90's sound as well as the impedance mismatch between the Ares II and A90 using balanced connections. Having listened to the SA-1 for few hours, SA-1 sounds like what I expected the A90 to sound like.
> 
> Other have already mentioned several key characteristics of the SA-1 and they were immediately apparent (i.e. better bass and ever so slightly warmer sound) relative to the A90. However, SA-1 also has a noticeably better transient response (or decay) that makes cymbal and drum hits sound very defined/snappy and I wonder whether this contributes further to the impression of a better bass performance.
> 
> I also have the Emotiva BasX-100, which is also a class A/B amp, and although the bass response on it is amazing (especially on the Elex), I don't use it very it often due to the upper frequencies sounding dithered and not refined. The SA-1 sound signature reminds me of an amp you get when you mix the A90 and BasX-100 - it has the airy top end of the A90 while the low frequency kicks like the BasX. As I am not a huge fan of very warm sounding gear (I like the airy sparkle), the SA-1's sound signature is exactly what I was looking for and I am very happy with the purchase.


Nice setup. Are you using Amazon HD directly on website or is there a dedicated app? So the Denafrips Ares II pairs well with the SA-1? I am considering upgrading the dac or getting a second one being R2R and Denafrips Pontus/Ares II is circled for consideration.


----------



## NascentAP

kdub said:


> Nice setup. Are you using Amazon HD directly on website or is there a dedicated app? So the Denafrips Ares II pairs well with the SA-1? I am considering upgrading the dac or getting a second one being R2R and Denafrips Pontus/Ares II is circled for consideration.


I'm using the dedicated app (Windows 10) in direct mode. Toggling direct mode clearly increases the dbs but not sure if anything else changes if you volume match.

As to whether the SA-1 pairs well with Ares II, I think they sound the best out of all the gear I have thus far but unfortunately, this isn't saying much as the only other DAC in my possession is the E30 and I haven't used it with the SA-1 yet. To tell you the truth, I didn't feel like there was a quantum leap in sound quality when I got the Ares II as I did with some of my headphones or the SA-1. I fully realize however that this may be b/c I do not have the ears and/or the gears resolving enough to discern.


----------



## Shane D

NascentAP said:


> I'm using the dedicated app (Windows 10) in direct mode. Toggling direct mode clearly increases the dbs but not sure if anything else changes if you volume match.
> 
> As to whether the SA-1 pairs well with Ares II, I think they sound the best out of all the gear I have thus far but unfortunately, this isn't saying much as the only other DAC in my possession is the E30 and I haven't used it with the SA-1 yet. To tell you the truth, I didn't feel like there was a quantum leap in sound quality when I got the Ares II as I did with some of my headphones or the SA-1. I fully realize however that this may be b/c I do not have the ears and/or the gears resolving enough to discern.


That is not unusual. I felt the same way about my Bifrost 2. A DAC makes the smallest difference in your chain, by far, unless it's broken or just inferior.
Biggest payoff is headphones, followed by amp upgrade.


----------



## Nitrium

Anybody running HD 6xx, HD800S or HD650 on the SA-1? If so, what’s your gain setting, Z setting, and normal volume level?


----------



## kdub

Nitrium said:


> I'm seriously considering selling the SU-9. Just because I can just split the XLR signal from the RME to both the THX 789 and the SA-1. And the Singxer has the pre-amp connection to my Loxjie P20 and my Valhalla 2... so yeah. The RME is quite capable as a "pure" DAC, and, honestly, I use the SE from time to time because of the different profiles per output (as in, I can keep an EQ profile lined up for the Phones output and always plug my Ananda or Elex there).


How are you splitting the digital signal from the RME to the two amps exactly? I think the RME only has one xlr output.


----------



## J Mirra (Apr 14, 2021)

Nitrium said:


> Anybody running HD 6xx, HD800S or HD650 on the SA-1? If so, what’s your gain setting, Z setting, and normal volume level?


I am using the HD800 non s on low Z, using high Z has less bass and slam when listening to progressive trance and has a smaller soundstage sounding closer to my RNHP.

I like the sound of high gain for the 800 as it gives it more energy it is less laid back with more slam in the bass area to my ears.
Volume around 10-11.
It is the best my 800 has sounded to date for me on my audio journey.


----------



## Nitrium

kdub said:


> How are you splitting the digital signal from the RME to the two amps exactly? I think the RME only has one xlr output.


An XLR splitter cable I bought at Amazon (well, two, technically).


----------



## Lolito

Nitrium said:


> Anybody running HD 6xx, HD800S or HD650 on the SA-1? If so, what’s your gain setting, Z setting, and normal volume level?


should be low gain and high Z


----------



## Nitrium

Lolito said:


> should be low gain and high Z



That’s interesting. I am not getting the expected performance with that configuration - not only Hi-Z makes the sound a bit... weirder, but in Low Gain, I need to crank both my HD800S and HD6xx to 3-4 o’clock to get enough listening volume. That’s why I was asking. Also, it feels like the volume control is exponential - after 4 o’clock (in Low Gain), it increases substantially.

I’m hesitant of switching to High Gain because the other headphones I have here are lower impedance (Clear Mg Pro, Ananda, etc.), and High Gain is way overkill for those.


----------



## Lolito

think about it, talk it with the wife to check her opinion about it, if it worth it maybe to take that walk on the wild side and test the high gain and or move the impedance switch. You never know what awaits you around the corner. In any case, it is quite a decision, so give it as much time as needed.


----------



## kdub

Nitrium said:


> An XLR splitter cable I bought at Amazon (well, two, technically).


but does it reduce the amount of available power going into each amp? Because the dac is sending analogue signals out to the amps.


----------



## Shane D

kdub said:


> but does it reduce the amount of available power going into each amp? Because the dac is sending analogue signals out to the amps.


No it doesn't. At least not in a noticeable way. I am using a split cable from my Schiit Bifrost2 out to my Violectric V220 and Liquid Platinum. The sound is clean and I have not noted any difference in power levels going straight out or split out.


----------



## Nitrium

kdub said:


> but does it reduce the amount of available power going into each amp? Because the dac is sending analogue signals out to the amps.



Not in a meaningful way, that I could notice.


----------



## TitaniumDust

I am getting my SA-1 on Monday!  Chain will be: PC > Singxer SU-2 > Bifrost 2 > Singxer SA-1 > LCD-X.  Recently sold my SP200 since I discovered that I actually liked my $100 Liquid Spark slightly better than the SP200, even with SP200 running "balanced" and Liquid Spark running single-ended.  I seriously thought about forking over the cash for a Soloist 3XP, but thought I'd try the SA-1 first and see how it goes.  I don't have any IEMs or hard-to-drive headphones, so I'm confident the SA-1 and its gain settings will have me totally covered.


----------



## Random Lunatic

TitaniumDust said:


> I am getting my SA-1 on Monday!  Chain will be: PC > Singxer SU-2 > Bifrost 2 > Singxer SA-1 > LCD-X.  Recently sold my SP200 since I discovered that I actually liked my $100 Liquid Spark slightly better than the SP200, even with SP200 running "balanced" and Liquid Spark running single-ended.  I seriously thought about forking over the cash for a Soloist 3XP, but thought I'd try the SA-1 first and see how it goes.  I don't have any IEMs or hard-to-drive headphones, so I'm confident the SA-1 and its gain settings will have me totally covered.


I'll be very interested to hear how that goes, since I'm between the SA-1 and a Liquid Goldx... I know the spark isn't quite the Gold, but I'd wager it has some of the same Cavalli magic of adding some heft to the sound, so to speak?


----------



## kdub

TitaniumDust said:


> I am getting my SA-1 on Monday!  Chain will be: PC > Singxer SU-2 > Bifrost 2 > Singxer SA-1 > LCD-X.  Recently sold my SP200 since I discovered that I actually liked my $100 Liquid Spark slightly better than the SP200, even with SP200 running "balanced" and Liquid Spark running single-ended.  I seriously thought about forking over the cash for a Soloist 3XP, but thought I'd try the SA-1 first and see how it goes.  I don't have any IEMs or hard-to-drive headphones, so I'm confident the SA-1 and its gain settings will have me totally covered.


I'm very curious about your chain setup. Is the SU-2 like a device to clean the usb noise before sending to the dac? Which output interface are you connecting SU-2 t the Bitfrost 2 dac? I don't see an usb out on the SU-2.  I recently ordered an Allo USBridge Signature Player streamer but didn't know about this option you have.  Currently I am only running an usb cable from Mac mini (running Audirvana) to SMSL SU-9 dac.


----------



## TitaniumDust

kdub said:


> Is the SU-2 like a device to clean the usb noise before sending to the dac? Which output interface are you connecting SU-2 t the Bitfrost 2 dac?


The SU-2 is called a "USB Converter" or "Bridge" or DDC.  It converts USB to standard digital outputs like coax, BNC, optical (I think?), AES and IIS.  I have a nice silver USB cable from PC to DDC, then a high-end silver BNC/SPDIF cable connecting it to the Bifrost 2.  While the USB inputs on most DACs are average in sound quality, the SU-2 does indeed isolate and re-clock the USB input (I think but don't quote me) and then outputs a really good-sounding signal that the USB input on most DACs just can't compete with.  The USB input on DACs is, obviously, easier to use since you need fewer components and cables.  I discovered many years ago the benefit of a good DDC.  While I haven't tested the Bifrost 2 USB input, I did have the previous generation Schiit standalone USB DDC (I forget what it was called) and it wasn't even a fair comparison at the time compared to SU-2.  I have no doubt that Schiit (and other companies) are starting to place more R&D on the USB input, but having a dedicated DDC is a must for me, personally.  YMMV of course!


----------



## Lolito

TitaniumDust said:


> The SU-2 is called a "USB Converter" or "Bridge" or DDC.  It converts USB to standard digital outputs like coax, BNC, optical (I think?), AES and IIS.  I have a nice silver USB cable from PC to DDC, then a high-end silver BNC/SPDIF cable connecting it to the Bifrost 2.  While the USB inputs on most DACs are average in sound quality, the SU-2 does indeed isolate and re-clock the USB input (I think but don't quote me) and then outputs a really good-sounding signal that the USB input on most DACs just can't compete with.  The USB input on DACs is, obviously, easier to use since you need fewer components and cables.  I discovered many years ago the benefit of a good DDC.  While I haven't tested the Bifrost 2 USB input, I did have the previous generation Schiit standalone USB DDC (I forget what it was called) and it wasn't even a fair comparison at the time compared to SU-2.  I have no doubt that Schiit (and other companies) are starting to place more R&D on the USB input, but having a dedicated DDC is a must for me, personally.  YMMV of course!



Sounds really interesting, I just wonder how much of worth it is it... Like, maybe a better r2r dac sounds already better? say ares2, instead of "USB cleaner" + just a decent dac... Just asking, I have no clue about the answer, but maybe you know, let us know, thanks!


----------



## kdub

TitaniumDust said:


> The SU-2 is called a "USB Converter" or "Bridge" or DDC.  It converts USB to standard digital outputs like coax, BNC, optical (I think?), AES and IIS.  I have a nice silver USB cable from PC to DDC, then a high-end silver BNC/SPDIF cable connecting it to the Bifrost 2.  While the USB inputs on most DACs are average in sound quality, the SU-2 does indeed isolate and re-clock the USB input (I think but don't quote me) and then outputs a really good-sounding signal that the USB input on most DACs just can't compete with.  The USB input on DACs is, obviously, easier to use since you need fewer components and cables.  I discovered many years ago the benefit of a good DDC.  While I haven't tested the Bifrost 2 USB input, I did have the previous generation Schiit standalone USB DDC (I forget what it was called) and it wasn't even a fair comparison at the time compared to SU-2.  I have no doubt that Schiit (and other companies) are starting to place more R&D on the USB input, but having a dedicated DDC is a must for me, personally.  YMMV of course!


Thanks for the explanation. Didn't know there was such a product. I need usb input as my dac only decodes MQA via usb. So I guess the streamer option would be better in my chain.


----------



## TitaniumDust

kdub said:


> Thanks for the explanation. Didn't know there was such a product. I need usb input as my dac only decodes MQA via usb. So I guess the streamer option would be better in my chain.


I think you are right.  I don't have any experience with streamers, but my guess is that one of their biggest benefits is that they have better quality outputs compared to what you typically find on a computer, which would lessen any need for a dedicated USB device like the SU-2.


----------



## Nitrium

Lolito said:


> think about it, talk it with the wife to check her opinion about it, if it worth it maybe to take that walk on the wild side and test the high gain and or move the impedance switch. You never know what awaits you around the corner. In any case, it is quite a decision, so give it as much time as needed.


Haha, the reason I’m asking is because the gain switches couldn’t be placed in a more inconvenient spot in the SA-1 - it’s under the unit. So for those of us who have it stacked which a bunch of other stuff on top, it’s a major decision


----------



## TitaniumDust

Lolito said:


> Sounds really interesting, I just wonder how much of worth it is it... Like, maybe a better r2r dac sounds already better? say ares2, instead of "USB cleaner" + just a decent dac... Just asking, I have no clue about the answer, but maybe you know, let us know, thanks!


I can *try* to answer that based on my experiences, but keep in mind that every system and pair of ears is totally unique.  To me, adding in a good DDC is like upgrading the DAC. On my Bifrost (1) the SPDIF input definitely sounded better than the USB input.  I never tested USB on my Bifrost 2.  On the flip side, if you get a good DDC and then use standard Amazon cables then you may see little (or even no) difference in going directly to the USB input on the DAC.  I don't want to start any type of cable war here, but IMHO high-quality digital (and analog) cables make a real difference, especially on the digital end, which can seem counterintuitive.  So, good DDC + good USB/SPDIF/HDMI/AES/transport cables  = upgrading DAC to the next tier.  You can always find DACs (usually more expensive) with good USB inputs which would lessen or negate the need for a DDC, so everyone's experience would be highly dependent on their own audio chain.  I wish there was a definitive answer, but there is not.


----------



## Lolito

TitaniumDust said:


> I can *try* to answer that based on my experiences, but keep in mind that every system and pair of ears is totally unique.  To me, adding in a good DDC is like upgrading the DAC. On my Bifrost (1) the SPDIF input definitely sounded better than the USB input.  I never tested USB on my Bifrost 2.  On the flip side, if you get a good DDC and then use standard Amazon cables then you may see little (or even no) difference in going directly to the USB input on the DAC.  I don't want to start any type of cable war here, but IMHO high-quality digital (and analog) cables make a real difference, especially on the digital end, which can seem counterintuitive.  So, good DDC + good USB/SPDIF/HDMI/AES/transport cables  = upgrading DAC to the next tier.  You can always find DACs (usually more expensive) with good USB inputs which would lessen or negate the need for a DDC, so everyone's experience would be highly dependent on their own audio chain.  I wish there was a definitive answer, but there is not.


thanks for the explanation, it comes from actual experience with such devices so it is highly appreciated. Budget limitations are also there so, at the end of the day $ will be key. But good information non the less. It is hard sometimes to test stuff, like I swapped my usb cable for an audiophile one, 10€ aliexpress shipped. I didn't even bother trying to compare any difference. I just hope it is more isolated, got a linear PSU for the dac.. Will eventually swap to something like an ARES2 pricewise, but nothing more, that is top of budget for a dac for me. 1000€ dac+amp


----------



## kdub

TitaniumDust said:


> I think you are right.  I don't have any experience with streamers, but my guess is that one of their biggest benefits is that they have better quality outputs compared to what you typically find on a computer, which would lessen any need for a dedicated USB device like the SU-2.


Yes from my understanding dedicated music streamers uses low jitter components or methods to reduce the noises from the ports.  Link is for the one I ordered along with the upgraded Shanti power supply.  https://allo.com/sparky/usbridge-signature-player.html


----------



## Pharmaboy (Apr 15, 2021)

TitaniumDust said:


> The SU-2 is called a "USB Converter" or "Bridge" or DDC.  It converts USB to standard digital outputs like coax, BNC, optical (I think?), AES and IIS.  I have a nice silver USB cable from PC to DDC, then a high-end silver BNC/SPDIF cable connecting it to the Bifrost 2.  While the USB inputs on most DACs are average in sound quality, the SU-2 does indeed isolate and re-clock the USB input (I think but don't quote me) and then outputs a really good-sounding signal that the USB input on most DACs just can't compete with.  The USB input on DACs is, obviously, easier to use since you need fewer components and cables.  I discovered many years ago the benefit of a good DDC.  While I haven't tested the Bifrost 2 USB input, I did have the previous generation Schiit standalone USB DDC (I forget what it was called) and it wasn't even a fair comparison at the time compared to SU-2.  I have no doubt that Schiit (and other companies) are starting to place more R&D on the USB input, but having a dedicated DDC is a must for me, personally.  YMMV of course!



Like you, I've used one SPDIF convertor or another for ~12 years. I started using toslink from my 1st converter (Musical Fidelity V-link 96) because I kept hearing that USB input boards did nothing good for sound (my 1st DAC had primitive sychronous USB). The USB implementation of DACs kept getting better, but especially after I switched to the coax output of my converter, no USB inputs could complete sonically w/coax in. Then ~3 years ago I upgraded from inexpensive Billy Jeans coax cable to a pricey silver one (Oyaide DR-510) based on positive user comments. They were right--the sound got even better.

I now have 2 different SPDIF converters: Musical Fidelity V-Link 192/24; and Wyred 4 Sound uLink. I generally use the V-Link because it's driven by the 5V signal on the USB cable, not a wall wart like the uLink. That's a real advantage in my complex desktop system, which is plagued by a groundloop I can't seem to eradicate.


----------



## Jay_vs

My SA-1 arrived today. My Gustard X16 is still on it's way. Hooked it up with RCA out of my Deckard. Initial impression is that it sounds slightly better than the amp in the Deckard. Just sounds cleaner, tighter bass and better detail separation. But running this balanced XLR so that probably is playing a part in that. 
Very impressed for £380. I keep hearing various people say the LCD-X don't need lots of power, that is so not the case at all. This amp needs to be on high gain to get the best out of them. The Deckard needs to be on medium gain. 
Very pleased with the SA-1, it's a keeper.


----------



## godmax

Jay_vs said:


> My SA-1 arrived today. My Gustard X16 is still on it's way. Hooked it up with RCA out of my Deckard. Initial impression is that it sounds slightly better than the amp in the Deckard. Just sounds cleaner, tighter bass and better detail separation. But running this balanced XLR so that probably is playing a part in that.
> Very impressed for £380. I keep hearing various people say the LCD-X don't need lots of power, that is so not the case at all. This amp needs to be on high gain to get the best out of them. The Deckard needs to be on medium gain.
> Very pleased with the SA-1, it's a keeper.


Give the SA-1 some days it will improve a bit (I could even reduce the volume after some days of use with the same headphones and source connected).
Yea getting sound off a headphone and power it properly is something different


----------



## Fly2High

godmax said:


> Give the SA-1 some days it will improve a bit (I could even reduce the volume after some days of use with the same headphones and source connected).
> Yea getting sound off a headphone and power it properly is something different


I hate to say it but I thought it also seemed to get a bit louder as I have been using it.  I thought it was me or that I accidentally turned the DAC volume down (Gustard X16).


----------



## nekky

Fly2High said:


> I hate to say it but I thought it also seemed to get a bit louder as I have been using it.  I thought it was me or that I accidentally turned the DAC volume down (Gustard X16).


I’ve also just switched to High Gain, which is more usable all around I find. The amp really would benefit from a third gain stage.


----------



## Lolito

that is gonna be the next feature, for the next vagon into the hype train: class A amp, powerful, and with 3 gain levels, and the switch on the front. For the schiit jot 3 will have that feature too. power still on the back for the jot3 though. Jot 7 has power switch on the front, 2030.


----------



## Chamade

Lolito said:


> that is gonna be the next feature, for the next vagon into the hype train: class A amp, powerful, and with 3 gain levels, and the switch on the front. For the schiit jot 3 will have that feature too. power still on the back for the jot3 though. Jot 7 has power switch on the front, 2030.


Can someone explain how will I miss the 3 stage gain? For example I will pairing with the Arya. Will the volume be able to get to 110db and more...very loud?


----------



## Lolito

you might not miss it, for some people though, apparently, low gain is too low and high gain is too high. not a problem with 3 level stages for same wattage.

but again, maybe you do not need a middle setting.


----------



## KenMan85

kdub said:


> Yes from my understanding dedicated music streamers uses low jitter components or methods to reduce the noises from the ports.  Link is for the one I ordered along with the upgraded Shanti power supply.  https://allo.com/sparky/usbridge-signature-player.html


I get my allo in a week.   I'm going from pc audirvana to pc / laptop as host for audirvana, streaming from allo usbridge to D90 via USB


----------



## kdub

KenMan85 said:


> I get my allo in a week.   I'm going from pc audirvana to pc / laptop as host for audirvana, streaming from allo usbridge to D90 via USB


Very nice. Hope this streamer makes a sonic difference. Love to hear your initial feedback as you will probably receive it much sooner than me.


----------



## KenMan85

I just wanted a streamer so I can move my laptop from the music desk.  I would love to hear an improvement but skeptical.


----------



## Jay_vs

That is good to know. I'm so impressed with it already, if it improves over time then that's a bonus. Can't believe how cool it runs. you could fry an egg on my Deckard.


----------



## kdub

KenMan85 said:


> I just wanted a streamer so I can move my laptop from the music desk.  I would love to hear an improvement but skeptical.


There should be a sonic difference but I'm not sure how much. Because the laptop/desktop computer circuitry is noisy vs dedicated audio streamers aiming for audio objective.  That is what I hear and my motivation to change my chain setup. Also I hear that the Moose Audio player OS for the Raspberry Pi which this streamer is built on is a very good sonically audio player.  So will be a fun experiment!


----------



## Jay_vs

Chamade said:


> Can someone explain how will I miss the 3 stage gain? For example I will pairing with the Arya. Will the volume be able to get to 110db and more...very loud?


Don't think you've got anything to worry about Arya's are 32Ω. The SA-1 is 6480mW @ 32Ω


----------



## tamleo (Apr 15, 2021)

Lolito said:


> that is gonna be the next feature, for the next vagon into the hype train: class A amp, powerful, and with 3 gain levels, and the switch on the front. For the schiit jot 3 will have that feature too. power still on the back for the jot3 though. Jot 7 has power switch on the front, 2030.


It's funny. I don't like the Schiit house sound but I like their designs. Front panel with too many buttons, switchs or words is just a bad idea to my eyes.
3 levels of gain is just a gimmick imo


----------



## Lolito

DaKing said:


> Thanks for the observation. I have a THX AAA 987 paired with a Chord Qutest and Sony MDR Z1R, Sennheiser HD 660s as well as CA Solaris. I am wondering if the SA-1 would be a worthwhile upgrade to have that Class A experience? What do others think?



everything is a gimmick brother, everything.

that being said 3 levels of gain it's like a car of 3 gears... could be 2, could be 4 gears. Far from a gimmick really, but anyways, to each brain it's own understandings.


----------



## joseG86

Jay_vs said:


> Don't think you've got anything to worry about Arya's are 32Ω. The SA-1 is 6480mW @ 32Ω


Arya's 41Ω


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## Jay_vs (Apr 16, 2021)

joseG86 said:


> Arya's 41Ω


Excuse my ignorance.


----------



## joseG86 (Apr 16, 2021)

My SA-1 was shipped this Tuesday and it's already here, will try and give some feedback 



Jay_vs said:


> Excuse my ignorance.


Nothing to excuse haha


----------



## Lolito

For all those who received it, post some photos for the rest of people!!


----------



## joseG86

Lolito said:


> For all those who received it, post some photos for the rest of people!!


----------



## pankar0

I can't wait about your thoughts... !!!
Sa-1 vs Jot2... x16 and Arya's....


----------



## NascentAP

Lolito said:


> For all those who received it, post some photos for the rest of people!!


Well here is mine currently set up along with my "top" gear. The A90 is boxed up in the box the SA-1 came in. I get it when others in this thread stated earlier that the SA-1 doesn't complement but replaces A90.


----------



## nekky




----------



## Lolito

NascentAP said:


> Well here is mine currently set up along with my "top" gear. The A90 is boxed up in the box the SA-1 came in. I get it when others in this thread stated earlier that the SA-1 doesn't complement but replaces A90.


That is the current state of the art in 1000€ dac+amp combo. How do you lie the ARES2, and how does it match with the SA-1?


----------



## Lolito

Another beautiful combo, this one also non delta sigma, but multibit. Very nice. And tubes up there too. All in one.


----------



## NascentAP

Lolito said:


> That is the current state of the art in 1000€ dac+amp combo. How do you lie the ARES2, and how does it match with the SA-1?


To me, they sound the best together out of all my gear but my dac collection is limited as the only other in my possession is the E30. I will most likely a/b with the Ares II at some point but it won’t be a fair fight since the Ares II will be a balanced connection as opposed to E30.


----------



## Lolito

NascentAP said:


> To me, they sound the best together out of all my gear but my dac collection is limited as the only other in my possession is the E30. I will most likely a/b with the Ares II at some point but it won’t be a fair fight since the Ares II will be a balanced connection as opposed to E30.


I´m really interested on that test comparisson, since I have the E30, which repalced a khadas tone board, and I am looking into getting an r2r dac, and ARES2 is the current candidate.


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## Jay_vs (Apr 16, 2021)

Lolito said:


> For all those who received it, post some photos for the rest of people





Lolito said:


> For all those who received it, post some photos for the rest of people!!


Patiently waiting for the X16 to arrive. The trusty Deckard is doing a fine job on DAC duty.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nekky said:


>



How does this amp work w/the AFO?


----------



## nekky

Pharmaboy said:


> How does this amp work w/the AFO?


Extremely well. Definitely go high gain - I spent a few days on low and it’s night and day, should’ve just started on high. The soundstage is excellent, tons of detail. And these headphones have impressed me even more now with “proper” amplification (coming from a Schiit stack originally and then Geshelli products, which aren’t meant for these low impedance cans). I actually prefer them over my Elegias for some music; they are not lower in performance, only in price.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nekky said:


> Extremely well. Definitely go high gain - I spent a few days on low and it’s night and day, should’ve just started on high. The soundstage is excellent, tons of detail. And these headphones have impressed me even more now with “proper” amplification (coming from a Schiit stack originally and then Geshelli products, which aren’t meant for these low impedance cans). I actually prefer them over my Elegias for some music; they are not lower in performance, only in price.



Yes, the AFO is a planar, and all planars seem to appreciate power, even if only a fraction of it is being actively used. 

I've tried my AFO on 3-4 amps (these are all amps I like a lot), but as usual, the V281 is king.


----------



## nekky

Pharmaboy said:


> Yes, the AFO is a planar, and all planars seem to appreciate power, even if only a fraction of it is being actively used.
> 
> I've tried my AFO on 3-4 amps (these are all amps I like a lot), but as usual, the V281 is king.


Very curious about these “Lake People” myself


----------



## Pharmaboy

nekky said:


> Very curious about these “Lake People” myself


Funny you'd say that. One of the other SS amps I tried is the small but powerful Lake People G109-A (discontinued several years ago). The sound is very similar to the V281, as it should be: made by the company that owns Violectric.

The G109-A is single-ended and somewhat less powerful than the balanced V281--but either can drive the AFO all day long. The "Violectric house sound" is a real thing, I'm happy to say...


----------



## Jay_vs

X16 arrived this morning. Hifigo are excellent, will definitely use them again.


----------



## joseG86

I am really enjoying SA-1 in high gain mode but still too soon to give real feedback. So far so good tho


----------



## nekky

joseG86 said:


> I am really enjoying SA-1 in high gain mode but still too soon to give real feedback. So far so good tho


Same.


----------



## Jay_vs

I've gone back to low gain, it's actually really amazing.


----------



## Dopaminer (Apr 17, 2021)

I've had mine for a week now, absolutely loving it.
Impressions:
- It's way smaller than I though it would be.
- It's even better built than I expected - even the sides with the venting are heavy plate aluminum.
- Arya sounds fantastic on low gain/low Z and from 11 to 3 o'clock - exactly where I want it.
- It gets pleasantly hot.
- The knob is a quality solid piece of aluminum but too shallow for my hands; it's even smaller than the Topping DX7 knob. I changed it out for a much larger, machined 
   aluminum knob I had, which works much better. I can adjust the volume without touching the faceplate of the amp, which is some kind of OCD thing I have.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Dopaminer said:


> I've had mine for a week now, absolutely loving it.
> Impressions:
> - It's way smaller than I though it would be.
> - It's even better built than I expected - even the sides with the venting are heavy plate aluminum.
> ...


Wow, now that's a knob upgrade! 👍 You just happened to have a perfectly fitting one on hand?


----------



## joseG86

Dopaminer said:


> I've had mine for a week now, absolutely loving it.
> Impressions:
> - It's way smaller than I though it would be.
> - It's even better built than I expected - even the sides with the venting are heavy plate aluminum.
> ...


I love that knob, where did you get it? lol


----------



## joseG86

Relaxasaurus said:


> Wow, now that's a knob upgrade! 👍 You just happened to have a perfectly fitting one on hand?


I would love you to compare Jotunheim 2, SA-1, Burson Soloist 3X and Violectric 280/281   

Love your vids


----------



## Chamade

Dopaminer said:


> I've had mine for a week now, absolutely loving it.
> Impressions:
> - It's way smaller than I though it would be.
> - It's even better built than I expected - even the sides with the venting are heavy plate aluminum.
> ...


I love your knob!


----------



## nekky

Also in for knob purchase URL... all jokes aside, I did see another one posted weeks ago before I had purchased mine, so I didn’t take as much interest as I ought to have. It was black anodized, knurled aluminum. Anyone know where to find a job upgrade or at the least the specs we need to look for?

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but also loving the amp. I’ve also gone and ordered the X26 Pro to pair it with and see if I can extract even more detail. It’s close to perfect for me already. Fingers crossed. My X16 will be up for sale.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

joseG86 said:


> I would love you to compare Jotunheim 2, SA-1, Burson Soloist 3X and Violectric 280/281
> 
> Love your vids


Thanks! Currently reviewing those + more 😁 Stay tuned


----------



## Lolito

Dopaminer said:


> I've had mine for a week now, absolutely loving it.
> Impressions:
> - It's way smaller than I though it would be.
> - It's even better built than I expected - even the sides with the venting are heavy plate aluminum.
> ...


that is a proper knob, I was thinking about replacing the knob by something like the schiit knobs... but this one is even better, post some info about it please, thanks a lot!!!


----------



## pankar0

Dopaminer said:


> I've had mine for a week now, absolutely loving it.
> Impressions:
> - It's way smaller than I though it would be.
> - It's even better built than I expected - even the sides with the venting are heavy plate aluminum.
> ...


May I ask you a few details about the knob... can you send me a photo without any knob... to see the shape of the pot..
The og knob it's with screw.. ??? 
I want to order one aftermarket but I don't know the right dimensions ...
Thanks for your help.


----------



## joseG86 (Apr 17, 2021)

nekky said:


> Also in for knob purchase URL... all jokes aside, I did see another one posted weeks ago before I had purchased mine, so I didn’t take as much interest as I ought to have. It was black anodized, knurled aluminum. Anyone know where to find a job upgrade or at the least the specs we need to look for?
> 
> Sorry to sound like a broken record, but also loving the amp. I’ve also gone and ordered the X26 Pro to pair it with and see if I can extract even more detail. It’s close to perfect for me already. Fingers crossed. My X16 will be up for sale.


I wonder if one can really notice any difference between X16, D90, Bifrost 2 against the X26 Pro, I'd instantly sell my X16 and BF2 if so....


----------



## nekky (Apr 17, 2021)

joseG86 said:


> I wonder if one can really notice any difference between X16, D90, Bifrost 2 against the X26 Pro, I'd instantly sell my X16 and BF2 if so....


It’s taken me a little while but I feel like I “know” some particular tracks very well that have left me going “wow” due to the wonderful channel separation and airiness a magnet planar provides. I’m hoping I can get more of that, slightly more easily on tap, and actually perceive it. Maybe I’m dreaming but if I don’t lose anything and do gain anywhere close to what I’m expecting, that would be nice.

Also, do you mind commenting on the Aryas paired with this amp? There are a lot of nice cans in the $1200-1500 USD range and I guess I’d feel silly for not considering them as a step up, but I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t been visiting ZMFs page quite a lot. I game a lot and am now really quite happy with the detail my Elegias provide for that particular use case, so looking for something very musical and effortless, much less “in your face” than the Focals are known to be. I would also say that they are.


----------



## joseG86

nekky said:


> It’s taken me a little while but I feel like I “know” some particular tracks very well that have left me going “wow” due to the wonderful channel separation and airiness a magnet planar provides. I’m hoping I can get more of that, slightly more easily on tap, and actually perceive it. Maybe I’m dreaming but if I don’t lose anything and do gain anywhere close to what I’m expecting, that would be nice.
> 
> Also, do you mind commenting on the Aryas paired with this amp? There are a lot of nice cans in the $1200-1500 USD range and I guess I’d feel silly for not considering them as a step up, but I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t been visiting ZMFs page quite a lot. I game a lot and am now really quite happy with the detail my Elegias provide for that particular use case, so looking for something very musical and effortless, much less “in your face” than the Focals are known to be. I would also say that they are.


SA-1 is close to A90 but SA-1 is superior in presentation, really engaging. Arya sound is crystal clear with it, really sharp and detailed, sharper than Jotunheim 2 I'd say, specially high frequencies.

SA-1 is never going to disappoint I'm sure about it.

I also have a Clear and I don't really mind the "in your face" thing, I have developed several DSP profiles depending on what I'm listening and Clear sounds like a pair of HQ speakers in front of you, same feeling everytime I use then, I forget I'm wearing HPs.


----------



## nekky

joseG86 said:


> SA-1 is close to A90 but SA-1 is superior in presentation, really engaging. Arya sound is crystal clear with it, really sharp and detailed, sharper than Jotunheim 2 I'd say, specially high frequencies.
> 
> SA-1 is never going to disappoint I'm sure about it.
> 
> I also have a Clear and I don't really mind the "in your face" thing, I have developed several DSP profiles depending on what I'm listening and Clear sounds like a pair of HQ speakers in front of you, same feeling everytime I use then, I forget I'm wearing HPs.


Thank you.
How do the Aryas compare to the Clears? There are a few of the new Mg version, both non and Pro versions for sale in Canada - have been tempted.


----------



## joseG86 (Apr 17, 2021)

nekky said:


> Thank you.
> How do the Aryas compare to the Clears? There are a few of the new Mg version, both non and Pro versions for sale in Canada - have been tempted.


I have the original Clear Pro, haven't had the chance to try the new Mg. Mg's are supposed to be superior due to the use of magnesium instead of aluminum but not really sure about that because in this hobby the: "it's better than" is subjective and relative

They are total different HPs, Arya presentation allows you to place yourself a few meters away from where the music is playing while Clear is more intimate in that aspect, like in front of the musicians. Both are amazing tho.


----------



## nekky

joseG86 said:


> I have the original Clear Pro, haven't had the chance to try the new Mg. Mg's are supposed to be superior due to the use of magnesium instead of aluminum but not really sure about that because in this hobby the: "it's better than" is subjective and relative
> 
> They are total different HPs, Arya presentation allows you to place yourself a few meters away from where the music is playing while Clear is more intimate in that aspect, like in front of the musicians. Both are amazing tho.


Thanks Jose! Ever heard a set of GL2000s by any chance?


----------



## quawn0418

nekky said:


> Thanks Jose! Ever heard a set of GL2000s by any chance?


I have and compared to the Arya, initially they sound more impressive, but after your ears adjust to both sets (usually somewhere between 5 and 10 minutes for me) you understand that the Arya is the clear winner here...the gl2000 has a very neat and precise playback, but there’s no life, the Arya has that naturalness, that life, and the bass capabilities. The gl2000 isn’t good with bass at all in my opinion, it’s flat. It’s a good amount but just flat with no punch, Arya is really a good set, and he’s being very accurate when he says the clear sounds like a good set of speakers.


----------



## NascentAP (Apr 17, 2021)

Lolito said:


> I´m really interested on that test comparisson, since I have the E30, which repalced a khadas tone board, and I am looking into getting an r2r dac, and ARES2 is the current candidate.


I got around to A/B'ing the E30 and the Ares II. The chain was Windows 10 PC Amazon Music HD app ->Ares II (OS)/E30 (both via USB) ->SA-1 (E30 via RCA and Ares II via XLR) -> Arya. The SA-1 was set to Low Z/low gain and the volume pot was at 2'o clock, which is my comfortable listening level. Amazon Music was set to exclusive mode, which gives direct control of sound to the app by bypassing OS level control. While listening to tracks that emphasize various frequencies, I toggled between E30 and Ares II by using the switch in the front. The process of switching the DAC source on the PC then flipping the switch on the SA-1 was less than a second process. Between the two inputs, there wasn't an obvious volume difference.

Being able to switch the DAC source this quickly, the sound difference between the E30 and Ares II is pretty dramatic and it would be hard to believe that anyone with healthy hearing wouldn't be able to notice. With regard to the sound, the E30 sounds slightly V shaped relative to the Ares II. The bass impact feels more noticeable and the treble is definitely hotter. Furthermore, the E30 sounds more compressed and the sound has a more noticeable "edge" to them.

The Ares II in comparison sounds clearly warmer with mid frequencies being more audible and the treble being tamed without sounding rolled off or losing detail. The sound from Ares II had less of that "edge" heard in the E30 and therefore sounded smoother overall. Because of this smoothing effect, the drum hits feel less punchy. The Ares II also sounds less compressed and more dynamic (I mean dynamic range), which imparts a sense of better spacing.  Interestingly, the sound stage didn't seem to change much. Overall, the Ares II sound is warmer, softer, and feels more sophisticated due to better dynamic range.

This was actually a uh,.,,,ear-opening experience. I went into this biased that there will be a negligible difference, thereby confirming my initial impression. But with the benefit of A/B'ing directly and perhaps with a more revealing headphone (my initial impression of was made mostly with Sundara and HD6XX), the difference is dramatic. Keep in mind that by no means the E30 is a bad DAC and I can see E30 performing better than Ares II with certain genres/setups. The differences I noted here are relative to the two DACs.


----------



## Dopaminer (Apr 17, 2021)

For all those interested in my knob, and their own knobs, here are the details.
The SA-1 uses the traditional oldschool 6mm post - there are literally millions of knobs that will work on it. SA-1's knob is 30mm diameter and attached with a 1.5mm allen capture screw. The Topping DX7 knob, for comparison, is also a solid aluminum knob, 34mm in diameter; however, it's attached by pressure/adhesive. On another forum a rep from Topping said you will almost definitely damage the pot pulling it off. With the Singxer, it's no problem:


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## pankar0 (Apr 18, 2021)

Dopaminer said:


> For all those interested in my knob, and their own knobs, here are the details.
> The SA-1 uses the traditional oldschool 6mm post - there are literally millions of knobs that will work on it. SA-1's knob is 30mm diameter and attached with a 1.5mm allen capture screw. The Topping DX7 knob, for comparison, is also a solid aluminum knob, 34mm in diameter; however, it's attached by pressure/adhesive. On another forum a rep from Topping said you will almost definitely damage the pot pulling it off. With the Singxer, it's no problem:


Thank you for your help, which diameter you believe suits better 34mm or 38mm..
I found those two sizes on web.

35mm and 38mm
€ 7,50  4%OFF | HIFI audio amp Aluminum Volume knob 1pcs Diameter 35mm Height 22mm amplifier Potentiometer knob https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrfJtLN

34 and 40mm
€ 7,73  35%OFF | KYYSLB 26*30 30*30 34*30 40*30MM Volume Potentiometer Knob CD Amplifier Chassis Switch Instrument All Aluminum Solid Knob https://a.aliexpress.com/_mr4l7IF


----------



## Lolito

NascentAP said:


> I got around to A/B'ing the E30 and the Ares II. The chain was Windows 10 PC Amazon Music HD app ->Ares II (OS)/E30 (both via USB) ->SA-1 (E30 via RCA and Ares II via XLR) -> Arya. The SA-1 was set to Low Z/low gain and the volume pot was at 2'o clock, which is my comfortable listening level. Amazon Music was set to exclusive mode, which gives direct control of sound to the app by bypassing OS level control. While listening to tracks that emphasize various frequencies, I toggled between E30 and Ares II by using the switch in the front. The process of switching the DAC source on the PC then flipping the switch on the SA-1 was less than a second process. Between the two inputs, there wasn't an obvious volume difference.
> 
> Being able to switch the DAC source this quickly, the sound difference between the E30 and Ares II is pretty dramatic and it would be hard to believe that anyone with healthy hearing wouldn't be able to notice. With regard to the sound, the E30 sounds slightly V shaped relative to the Ares II. The bass impact feels more noticeable and the treble is definitely hotter. Furthermore, the E30 sounds more compressed and the sound has a more noticeable "edge" to them.
> 
> ...


thanks for such a great comparison.


----------



## Lolito

Dopaminer said:


> For all those interested in my knob, and their own knobs, here are the details.
> The SA-1 uses the traditional oldschool 6mm post - there are literally millions of knobs that will work on it. SA-1's knob is 30mm diameter and attached with a 1.5mm allen capture screw. The Topping DX7 knob, for comparison, is also a solid aluminum knob, 34mm in diameter; however, it's attached by pressure/adhesive. On another forum a rep from Topping said you will almost definitely damage the pot pulling it off. With the Singxer, it's no problem:


but your knob, the silver one, seems larger than stock, larger than those 30mm, and it seems to be installed over that sank edge, no? where can we buy a knob like yours?? thanks again!!


----------



## joseG86

nekky said:


> Thanks Jose! Ever heard a set of GL2000s by any chance?


Never I'm sorry, I'm looking for a HE1000SE at the moment, might be end game for me....



pankar0 said:


> Thank you for your help, which diameter you believe suits better 34mm or 38mm..
> I found those two sizes on web.
> 
> 35mm and 38mm
> ...


Thanks mate


----------



## Lolito

NascentAP said:


> I got around to A/B'ing the E30 and the Ares II. The chain was Windows 10 PC Amazon Music HD app ->Ares II (OS)/E30 (both via USB) ->SA-1 (E30 via RCA and Ares II via XLR) -> Arya. The SA-1 was set to Low Z/low gain and the volume pot was at 2'o clock, which is my comfortable listening level. Amazon Music was set to exclusive mode, which gives direct control of sound to the app by bypassing OS level control. While listening to tracks that emphasize various frequencies, I toggled between E30 and Ares II by using the switch in the front. The process of switching the DAC source on the PC then flipping the switch on the SA-1 was less than a second process. Between the two inputs, there wasn't an obvious volume difference.
> 
> Being able to switch the DAC source this quickly, the sound difference between the E30 and Ares II is pretty dramatic and it would be hard to believe that anyone with healthy hearing wouldn't be able to notice. With regard to the sound, the E30 sounds slightly V shaped relative to the Ares II. The bass impact feels more noticeable and the treble is definitely hotter. Furthermore, the E30 sounds more compressed and the sound has a more noticeable "edge" to them.
> 
> ...


Thanks again, it is really helpful. My current speakers maybe lack a bit on that, mids are a tiny bit behind treble and bass. I can adjust the speakers... but then treble detail is gone... I think, as far as today, SA-1+ARES-2 it's a superb "musical" combo, at the level of GSX Mini, almost, paired with an affordable great sounding R2R dac. Then about headphones, that's a longer journey.


----------



## Dopaminer

Lolito said:


> but your knob, the silver one, seems larger than stock, larger than those 30mm, and it seems to be installed over that sank edge, no? where can we buy a knob like yours?? thanks again!!


The silver knob I have on there is 38mm diameter (originally from a Luxman amp). The SA-1 stock knob is 30mm, and there is an indented ring in the faceplate so that the 30mm knob will fit inside. 
With a larger knob, it is possible to install it against the faceplate where it will scrape - you definitely don't want to do that.

I guess even a 40mm knob will fit.


----------



## Dopaminer

pankar0 said:


> Thank you for your help, which diameter you believe suits better 34mm or 38mm..
> I found those two sizes on web.
> 
> 35mm and 38mm
> ...



Mine is 38mm. I think 40mm will fit, maybe 42.
I think it depends on the shape and color of the knob you want.
Stock is only 30mm diameter but for me the biggest problem was how shallow it is. I basically couldn't reach for the volume control without touching the faceplate, which bugs me. And the level of sound I am hearing - the power of the music - was controlled by this fiddly little thing... (I have large hands.) I know the giant silver 38mm knob on my SA-1 may look ridiculous. I don't mind the look of it, and the physical-interaction/psycho-acoustic benefits are huge, for me. If it were black, or knurled, it might look better.


----------



## Lolito (Apr 18, 2021)

Thanks again for the explanations. The interaction with the knob is crucial. When you are into the music, the device has to disapear, and volume needs to be able to be adjusted without even looking. The hand should find the way easily without looking. And yes, the knob needs to be large to be able to facilitate this.

Why do you say not to do that when you are actually doing it? It will really depend on how deep is the set screw, and if it allows to be separated enough from the front plate not to scratch it, and that is really hard to know before you have the knob in your hand, since it is not specified really... But your knob is perfect really, now it is a Luxman knob, not an aliexpress one LOL. I like it silver, contrast looks great, like in Schiit stuff.

Some I found on aliexpress:



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000123852606.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.51a0654bkidDtM&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.169870.0&scm_id=1007.13339.169870.0&scm-url=1007.13339.169870.0&pvid=26c200c3-d109-4ead-9eaa-4fcc008c27e4&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller,scm-url:1007.13339.169870.0,pvid:26c200c3-d109-4ead-9eaa-4fcc008c27e4,tpp_buckets:668#0#131923#77_668#0#131923#77_668#888#3325#1_668#888#3325#1_668#2846#8107#1934_668#2717#7565#702_668#1000022185#1000066058#0_668#3468#15609#253_668#2846#8107#1934_668#2717#7565#702_668#3164#9976#203_668#3468#15609#253

38x28 is this one. Very very like yours.

Another ones:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...9#342_4452#5108#23442#993_4452#3564#16062#700

this one is available in 34 and 38:


----------



## Lolito

More. 30x25, aluminium full body, this would be like a schiit knob for this I guess, very deep at 25mm, good price, simple aesthetics:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_



And again that luxman like knob, measuring 38x28mm deep

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/329...7565#702_668#3164#9976#203_668#3468#15609#253


----------



## Pharmaboy

NascentAP said:


> I got around to A/B'ing the E30 and the Ares II. The chain was Windows 10 PC Amazon Music HD app ->Ares II (OS)/E30 (both via USB) ->SA-1 (E30 via RCA and Ares II via XLR) -> Arya. The SA-1 was set to Low Z/low gain and the volume pot was at 2'o clock, which is my comfortable listening level. Amazon Music was set to exclusive mode, which gives direct control of sound to the app by bypassing OS level control. While listening to tracks that emphasize various frequencies, I toggled between E30 and Ares II by using the switch in the front. The process of switching the DAC source on the PC then flipping the switch on the SA-1 was less than a second process. Between the two inputs, there wasn't an obvious volume difference.
> 
> Being able to switch the DAC source this quickly, the sound difference between the E30 and Ares II is pretty dramatic and it would be hard to believe that anyone with healthy hearing wouldn't be able to notice. With regard to the sound, the E30 sounds slightly V shaped relative to the Ares II. The bass impact feels more noticeable and the treble is definitely hotter. Furthermore, the E30 sounds more compressed and the sound has a more noticeable "edge" to them.
> 
> ...



You do everyone here a real service with this post. The hardest thing in audio is to rise above one's sonic assumptions &  preferences and use the ears to truly compare 2 things--keeping an open mind re whatever is heard. That's a rare thing.

I never compared DACs in the way you did (ingenious, really)--but can report that my entire relationship with digital audio changed when I started using NOS and/or multibit DACs instead of delta/sigma designs. My troubled relationship w/digital (that began in '87) had always stopped me from loving its sound--or at least, no longer being conscious of digital sound due to sonic nasties that came with it. With NOS & multibit, I no longer think about digital vs analog & just enjoy the sound of my ripped .wav or .flac files.

Kudos for an excellent post...


----------



## Lolito

Music is an outburst of the soul.

What a beautiful sentence. Music is all. What dacs do you use or recommend?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Lolito said:


> Music is an outburst of the soul.
> 
> What a beautiful sentence. Music is all. What dacs do you use or recommend?


Frederick Delius is one of my top 2-3 favorite composers. He was described as a pretty horrible man in certain ways; so it's kind of odd that his music & written sentiments would be so exalted.

I don't have room on my desktop for some of the DAC designs that most interest me (Holo "May"; Denafrips Pontus; Gustard X26 Pro). The 3rd one is delta-sigma but its sound is so much praised that I'd love to hear it IMS. But they're all so big...

I have 2 audio systems ~6 ft. apart in home office: 

The big/complicated desktop system (speakers, sub, electronic crossover, DAC, 2 HP amps at any given time). My DAC in that system is the MHDT Labs Orchid, an NOS design w/a tube buffer. I ordered mine modded by addition of a 2nd RCA output pair (that's how I get 2 HP amps at any given time). I love the sound of this DAC, and its compact form factor makes it very useful IMS;
And the side system, which is headphone only. There I use an Audio GD DAC-19 with a constantly rotating cast of headphone amps, whatever pleases me that day. Another very good sounding DAC, though fairly large.
I'm not a DAC expert by any means. I can only tell you that NOS and/or multibit designs really work for me. My local head-fi pal Anthony has a Schiit Bifrost 2 (multibit) that he really likes. That one sounds pretty good to me, too.


----------



## Chamade

Relaxasaurus said:


> Thanks! Currently reviewing those + more 😁 Stay tuned


Hey, what made you get rid of the Arya? You mentioned that you really likem them in  a review. 





Pharmaboy said:


> You do everyone here a real service with this post. The hardest thing in audio is to rise above one's sonic assumptions &  preferences and use the ears to truly compare 2 things--keeping an open mind re whatever is heard. That's a rare thing.
> 
> I never compared DACs in the way you did (ingenious, really)--but can report that my entire relationship with digital audio changed when I started using NOS and/or multibit DACs instead of delta/sigma designs. My troubled relationship w/digital (that began in '87) had always stopped me from loving its sound--or at least, no longer being conscious of digital sound due to sonic nasties that came with it. With NOS & multibit, I no longer think about digital vs analog & just enjoy the sound of my ripped .wav or .flac files.
> 
> Kudos for an excellent post...



What is NOS? I may need some NOS in my life.


----------



## Pharmaboy

NOS = non-oversampling

NOS DACs are multibit DACs that are designed to not oversample the signal; in other words, they don't use oversampling as a way to nail the sound (they use other means to do that). To my ears, a really good NOS DAC sounds like a solid multibit DAC that's a little bit better in all the ways multibit DACs improve on the sound of delta-sigma digital.

Hard to explain, though. Here's a better explanation than I could do: 
https://sw1xad.co.uk/technology_post/delta-sigma-vs-non-oversampling-r2r-dac-designs/


----------



## Lolito

Thanks for the explanation, I will look at those DACS you mention, at least to learn something. I will also look for that music. Some dacs allow to choose between NOS and oversampling, but not sure in what category type those dacs would fall... Denafrips ARES 2 dac you can change from NOS to OS, you can not adjust volume though. It's a fixed volume dac, unless you change volume via software, or the pre amp, of course.

Schiit Bifrost 2 multibit is praised from a lot of people. Doesnt measure as good as a proper delta sigma dac, but sounds more pleasent, more "musical". But there are other options in the market now, like audio GD stuff, ARES 2, soakris...


----------



## Chamade (Apr 18, 2021)

Lolito said:


> Thanks for the explanation, I will look at those DACS you mention, at least to learn something. I will also look for that music. Some dacs allow to choose between NOS and oversampling, but not sure in what category type those dacs would fall... Denafrips ARES 2 dac you can change from NOS to OS, you can not adjust volume though. It's a fixed volume dac, unless you change volume via software, or the pre amp, of course.
> 
> Schiit Bifrost 2 multibit is praised from a lot of people. Doesnt measure as good as a proper delta sigma dac, but sounds more pleasent, more "musical". But there are other options in the market now, like audio GD stuff, ARES 2, soakris...


The Gustard X26 Pro is receiving a lot of praise for sounding very musical/warm and detailed. That one is a delta sigma DAC I believe...hmm.


----------



## Lolito (Apr 18, 2021)

Chamade said:


> The Gustard X26 Pro is receiving a lot of praise for sounding very musical/warm and detailed. That one is a sigma delta DAC I believe...hmm.


That one has a price over 1000€, iI bet it sounds like Jesus Christ tears mixed with unicorn blood. But it is still just a very polished delta sigma, with dual toroidal power supply and what not. I have not used it though, but it should trickle down in price if it's good. ARES2 much cheaper and different typology.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Lolito said:


> iI bet it sounds like Jesus Christ tears mixed with unicorn blood



Not the stock X26--only the "SE" (special edition) sounds like that...


----------



## NascentAP

Lolito said:


> Thanks again, it is really helpful. My current speakers maybe lack a bit on that, mids are a tiny bit behind treble and bass. I can adjust the speakers... but then treble detail is gone... I think, as far as today, SA-1+ARES-2 it's a superb "musical" combo, at the level of GSX Mini, almost, paired with an affordable great sounding R2R dac. Then about headphones, that's a longer journey.


No problem. I'm glad it was able to help a fellow human being with the same hobby. I was somewhat curious myself and now came away more enlightened.


Pharmaboy said:


> You do everyone here a real service with this post. The hardest thing in audio is to rise above one's sonic assumptions &  preferences and use the ears to truly compare 2 things--keeping an open mind re whatever is heard. That's a rare thing.
> 
> I never compared DACs in the way you did (ingenious, really)--but can report that my entire relationship with digital audio changed when I started using NOS and/or multibit DACs instead of delta/sigma designs. My troubled relationship w/digital (that began in '87) had always stopped me from loving its sound--or at least, no longer being conscious of digital sound due to sonic nasties that came with it. With NOS & multibit, I no longer think about digital vs analog & just enjoy the sound of my ripped .wav or .flac files.
> 
> Kudos for an excellent post...


Thank you for your kind words. Biomedical research is my day job so bias is something I pay close attention to. As mentioned earlier, I did not expect this obvious difference but I suspect that this is mainly due to being able to A/B quickly. Without this, I probably would not be able to identify what DAC is producing the sound. Nonetheless, however small absolute differences in the sound might be between the E30 and Ares II, just the knowledge that there are discernable relative differences between the two will  reinforce the perceived listening experience with the individual DACs.


----------



## Fly2High (Apr 19, 2021)

I was not expecting this amp to be able to pass the balanced XLR input out to RCA output, but it does! 

OK, yeah, that is expected when you talk about a preamp but with so many HP amps only having pass through and many sound like they can only pass out what comes in, I ordered a full set of RCA and XLR for my Gustard X16.  I am running this amp to also send signal to a pair of Edifier R1850DB active speakers.  I love that I now have a single volume control , on the SA-1, which will control the volume of either the headphones and my active speakers. 

It wasn't so obvious to me that this unit would work that way and be able to send SE out when only XLR in is provided.  I actually think the speakers sound better that they did before.  I think I hear more highs and maybe a little more detail (maybe) where as when they were SPDIF(optical) connected to the computer I thought they lacked some highs which I felt they needed.  Now this amp makes me even happier.  Also think the speakers are a little louder than before.   

Also, when switching between XLR and RCA inputs, there is absolutely no change in volume.  They made the change between the inputs absolutely perfect.  I only have SE cables for my HPs so I am not talking about volume changes on the HP output.  Only toggling the input switch on the front.  

I am sure several of you already knew this but as you can tell I was expecting a difference experience and am so happy with the results.


----------



## quawn0418

Fly2High said:


> I was not expecting this amp to be able to pass the balanced XLR input out to RCA output, but it does!
> 
> OK, yeah, that is expected when you talk about a preamp but with so many HP amps only having pass through and many sound like they can only pass out what comes in, I ordered a full set of RCA and XLR for my Gustard X16.  I am running this amp to also send signal to a pair of Edifier R1850DB active speakers.  I love that I now have a single volume control , on the SA-1, which will control the volume of either the headphones and my active speakers.
> 
> ...


There’s something weird about the inputs and outputs with this amp, my dac outputs twice the voltage from the balanced out compared to the rca out and this amp plays back each input at the same volume when switching back and forth, I don’t know what to make of that but I’ve never seen that before, if I’m getting twice the power from the balanced input i’d expect more gain than what I’m getting from the single ended input

but nope, not with the sa-1...shrugs


----------



## ra990

quawn0418 said:


> There’s something weird about the inputs and outputs with this amp, my dac outputs twice the voltage from the balanced out compared to the rca out and this amp plays back each input at the same volume when switching back and forth, I don’t know what to make of that but I’ve never seen that before, if I’m getting twice the power from the balanced input i’d expect more gain than what I’m getting from the single ended input
> 
> but nope, not with the sa-1...shrugs


This is not unusual for amps, I think the Liquid Platinum does the same as do a few others I've come across. Basically, the single ended is converted to balanced signal before the balanced amp stage, so what you're hearing is the converted single ended (which becomes as loud as the balanced when converted).


----------



## joseG86

Has anyone here tested the DC mode of SA-1?

That is the only thing I'm missing so far regarding the comparison against Jotunheim 2, so far I prefer the Jot 2 but I need to try the DC mode for a final conclusion/decision


----------



## quawn0418

joseG86 said:


> Has anyone here tested the DC mode of SA-1?
> 
> That is the only thing I'm missing so far regarding the comparison against Jotunheim 2, so far I prefer the Jot 2 but I need to try the DC mode for a final conclusion/decision


What is it about the jot 2 that you prefer it over the sa-1


----------



## VielenDanke

Has anyone tried a Diana V2 on this AMP? I have heard that the Diana V2s are fairly AMP forgiving and somewhat scale to the quality of AMP and DAC. I don't know how much of this is snake oil, to be honest.


----------



## joseG86 (Apr 24, 2021)

quawn0418 said:


> What is it about the jot 2 that you prefer it over the sa-1


· I have been testing *SA-1* and *Jot 2* with *Arya* and *Clear* for *5 days*. XLR was used as output (Forza Noir Hybrid HPC cable)
· *Bifrost 2* was the DAC used.
· Both amps were *connected 24/7* to the same pure sine wave UPS.
·* XLR* and *RCA* were used for this test (Mogami XLR and AudioQuest RCA) (DAC>AMP)
·* A/B* *test* took less than 1 second to switch between the amps. *Volume were matched* using a sound meter and 1khz tone. *Low gain and Low Z*.
· For this test I selected songs that I knew 100% from start to end. HQ FLACs with Foobar2000 and JRiver. ASIO/Bit Perfect mode.

*SA-1:* Very first time I noticed the same as with A90. Really clean and detailed sound, dark background, very defined and sharp, but not TOO sharp.
*Jot 2: *I won't forget the first time with this, the slam everyone was talking about is real, how it presents the music the first hours until your ears make use to it was a really gratifying experience.

*Differences are really small, very hard to notice but they're there*, it was easier to find them with Arya so I opted to only use the Arya for this comparison.

*SA-1 is more accurate playing music*, *slightly superior to Jot 2*, sharper if you will. Details of songs come out easily to the point where some instruments sound like they have an sharpy edge attached to them, like it sharpens every sound on purpose and I don't really like that, it's not as analytical as A90 but it's there. Anyhow, this is extremelly hard to notice in A/B test.

Changing to Jot 2 I had to try the same song over and over to find real differences to avoid psychoacoustics from controlling my mind and judgment. Like when you eat sushi and take a laminae of ginger to refresh the palate.

*Jot 2 doesn't sound as sharp nor defined/detailed as SA-1*. It has something that smoothes the edges of some instruments attaining/making them sound more real/natural to my ears. I always seek organic/texturized sound over sharp/detail. I've had the luck to assist many times to events like Distant Worlds in different countries with different echoes, distances and room sizes and I know how instruments must sound in real life.

*Soundstage, wide, depth, air* etc was almost identical to my ears. Both were able to transmit holographic sound and with Arya it was very easy to pinpoint instruments in space with both amps. But of course, it was always depending on how the music was recorded and the intention of the engineer behind it.

*Volume: *While the Jot 2 moves the Arya effortlessly at 12 o'clock without high gain with SA-1 I had to go 2-3 o'clock, always low gain both amps.
*Volume update 04/23/21:* It opened somehow and now it is almost similar in power, Arya at 12 and SA-1 at 12:30 for a normal listening (both amps matched in volume using sound meter)


*Temporal Verdict:*

You cannot never go wrong with any of these 2 amps, they are both beasts at playing music in a really pleasant way, I wouldn't care to keep one or the other but to my ears from my own perspective, liking and judgment I must go, for now, with Jotunheim 2.

I'm not a Schiit fan-boy and I have nothing against the infame so-called Chi-Fi, I respect every company's work and the people behind it. I'm not a professional or audio engineer but I know what I like and how the things I like must sound.

I will make more tests in the next days and I really want to try DC mode using jumpers with the SA-1 when I make sure it is safe.

*Update 04/24/2021:*
While I still prefer the Jotunheim 2 over the SA-1 from the words above, the SA-1 keeps getting better day after day and I must be honest here: I still prefer the Jot 2 but I really want to keep trying SA-1 to get the best out of it and see what I do, specially now that I got a Final D8000 Pro and it sounds almost perfect even from the mobile.


----------



## Gorillaphant

Nice detailed post Jose. I think I'm leaning toward the Jot2 now. 

Did you feel like either of the two amps was fatiguing to use after a while?


----------



## joseG86

Gorillaphant said:


> Nice detailed post Jose. I think I'm leaning toward the Jot2 now.
> 
> Did you feel like either of the two amps was fatiguing to use after a while?


Thank you, I'm not really good or technical when trying to explain a comparison like that, specially in a different language.

If I was in NY like you are I'd go for Jot 2 because of proximity, easy decision haha.

Not really, not at all, I think I have never experienced any kind of fatigue due to listening to music. I'm always working so if I have to focus I just pause my playlist so I don't get annoyed.


----------



## Arniesb

joseG86 said:


> · I have been testing *SA-1* and *Jot 2* with *Arya* and *Clear* for *5 days*. XLR was used as output (Forza Noir Hybrid HPC cable)
> · *Bifrost 2* was the DAC used.
> · Both amps were *connected 24/7* to the same pure sine wave UPS.
> ·* XLR* and *RCA* were used for this test (Mogami XLR and AudioQuest RCA) (DAC>AMP)
> ...


So in short you like amp that is less transparent and less resolving and the one that gloss flaws in your system?
Maybe problem is your source or dac and resolving amp highlights flaws easier?...
Bifrost is not good enough in my opinion and certainly not the caliber of these headphones...
Then again source matters too.


----------



## Lolito (Apr 20, 2021)

Arniesb said:


> So in short you like amp that is less transparent and less resolving and the one that gloss flaws in your system?
> Maybe problem is your source or dac and resolving amp highlights flaws easier?...
> Bifrost is not good enough in my opinion and certainly not the caliber of these headphones...
> Then again source matters too.


Maybe less resolving dacs and/or amps sound better or are more comfortable or pleasant for long listening? maybe the brain gets less fatigue with less "resolving"? I get that with my ipods too, early gens wolfson dac more transparent/annoying, later 6gen much smoother, velvety, warmer so much more comfy and pleasant. Background audio psychoacoustics is so under-rated, I think, maybe.


----------



## Chamade

Arniesb said:


> So in short you like amp that is less transparent and less resolving and the one that gloss flaws in your system?
> Maybe problem is your source or dac and resolving amp highlights flaws easier?...
> Bifrost is not good enough in my opinion and certainly not the caliber of these headphones...
> Then again source matters too.


Can you explain why his FLAC files played in direct mode would not be good? Also Bifrost is certainly good enough for those headphones. Sounds like he just prefers rolled off highs which understandable.


----------



## joseG86

Arniesb said:


> So in short you like amp that is less transparent and less resolving and the one that gloss flaws in your system?
> Maybe problem is your source or dac and resolving amp highlights flaws easier?...
> Bifrost is not good enough in my opinion and certainly not the caliber of these headphones...
> Then again source matters too.


There is never a problem with a sound system, it is all about the user and less the machine. Things that cannot be measured play the biggest part here, I just shared my humble opinion. Jot 2 is not less transparent/resolving, they're different on how they present the music but it is extremely hard, at least to my ears, to find those diferences.

I'd love to try Gungnir


----------



## Muataz

Nitrium said:


> Anybody here got the SA-1 paired with an RME ADI-2 FS DAC? I’m struggling a little bit with the output volume of mine. Even on XLR, the RME doesn’t seem to be outputting enough for the SA-1, to the point that I have to increase the volume to the 3 o’clock mark. Looking for a suggestion on the line out config on the ADI-2 - I’m current running it at ref. level 13dBu / -5.0 dB and it’s getting right there on the yellow mark


What is the issue if you use volume to the 3 o’clock mark ?! still you have until 5 o'c and you have high gain.


----------



## joseG86

Muataz said:


> What is the issue if you use volume to the 3 o’clock mark ?! still you have until 5 o'c and you have high gain.


Yeah, just go high gain, give it the intended use


----------



## Nitrium

Muataz said:


> What is the issue if you use volume to the 3 o’clock mark ?! still you have until 5 o'c and you have high gain.


No issue, just that feeling that I don't have much headroom. To be fair, volume increases exponentially after the 3 o'clock mark, instead of linearly.


----------



## joseG86

Nitrium said:


> No issue, just that feeling that I don't have much headroom. To be fair, volume increases exponentially after the 3 o'clock mark, instead of linearly.


Regarding the volume, if you want to improve your listening experience try to find and match the original volume of the song's recording you're listening to. Louder ain't better, from my pov lol


----------



## TitaniumDust

I received my SA-1 yesterday and let it burn-in overnight.  I highly doubt burn-in is complete, but I can already tell that this amp is a major step up from the other amp I currently own which is the Liquid Spark.  I preferred my Liquid Spark slightly more than my SP200 THX amp, and I found the SP200 but be only slightly worse than my 789 (R.I.P.).  This is to say, the SA-1 the best amp I've ever owned and I'm definitely glad I tried it.  From memory, it seems just slightly less bright than Liquid Spark and THX amps, but I didn't do any a/b'ing.  The midrange is full and detailed, which is unlike the sterile/anemic midrange on my THX amps, and is better detailed than Liquid Spark which is a little rough around the edges. I can confirm @Jay_vs comment that the LCD-X benefits from high gain on this amp.  There is certainly enough volume on low gain, but it just sounds a touch underpowered.  I ordered the volume knob suggested by @Voxata on page 2 of this thread, but it is 34mm in diameter and scratches the faceplate, so I ordered the equivalent 30mm knob from Amazon and should get it in a few days.  I may post a pic once I confirm it fits correctly.


----------



## Lolito

Mine just payed, ships friday hopefully, maybe saturday I get it, or next week.


----------



## Lolito

TitaniumDust said:


> I received my SA-1 yesterday and let it burn-in overnight.  I highly doubt burn-in is complete, but I can already tell that this amp is a major step up from the other amp I currently own which is the Liquid Spark.  I preferred my Liquid Spark slightly more than my SP200 THX amp, and I found the SP200 but be only slightly worse than my 789 (R.I.P.).  This is to say, the SA-1 the best amp I've ever owned and I'm definitely glad I tried it.  From memory, it seems just slightly less bright than Liquid Spark and THX amps, but I didn't do any a/b'ing.  The midrange is full and detailed, which is unlike the sterile/anemic midrange on my THX amps, and is better detailed than Liquid Spark which is a little rough around the edges. I can confirm @Jay_vs comment that the LCD-X benefits from high gain on this amp.  There is certainly enough volume on low gain, but it just sounds a touch underpowered.  I ordered the volume knob suggested by @Voxata on page 2 of this thread, but it is 34mm in diameter and scratches the faceplate, so I ordered the equivalent 30mm knob from Amazon and should get it in a few days.  I may post a pic once I confirm it fits correctly.


Have you tried to have that new 34mm knob moved a bit separated from the faceplate, and then tighten the set screw at the very tippy top of the pot axle?


----------



## TitaniumDust

Lolito said:


> Have you tried to have that new 34mm knob moved a bit separated from the faceplate, and then tighten the set screw at the very tippy top of the pot axle?


I actually did try that, and it looked funny to me.  Probably would be ok functionally.  If you get the knob closer to the faceplate where it looks better, there is an indentation on the axle that guides the knob right into the faceplate when you tighten the screw.  I figured $9 for another knob should solve all the above issues.


----------



## Fly2High

get a index card, or a couple of pieces of paper and use it as a shim behind the knob.  That should guarantee there is enough space not to contact.


----------



## kdub

TitaniumDust said:


> I received my SA-1 yesterday and let it burn-in overnight.  I highly doubt burn-in is complete, but I can already tell that this amp is a major step up from the other amp I currently own which is the Liquid Spark.  I preferred my Liquid Spark slightly more than my SP200 THX amp, and I found the SP200 but be only slightly worse than my 789 (R.I.P.).  This is to say, the SA-1 the best amp I've ever owned and I'm definitely glad I tried it.  From memory, it seems just slightly less bright than Liquid Spark and THX amps, but I didn't do any a/b'ing.  The midrange is full and detailed, which is unlike the sterile/anemic midrange on my THX amps, and is better detailed than Liquid Spark which is a little rough around the edges. I can confirm @Jay_vs comment that the LCD-X benefits from high gain on this amp.  There is certainly enough volume on low gain, but it just sounds a touch underpowered.  I ordered the volume knob suggested by @Voxata on page 2 of this thread, but it is 34mm in diameter and scratches the faceplate, so I ordered the equivalent 30mm knob from Amazon and should get it in a few days.  I may post a pic once I confirm it fits correctly.


I also received my SA-1 this week on Monday.  Still trying to let it burn-in more. I would agree with your findings so far. The mids do sound fuller and bit forward. I need to do some A/B with my THX AAA 789 amp as well to determine if there is any reason to keep but so far I am liking the SA-1 much more (albeit it does get more HOT vs the THX).  This is chained to a SMSL SU-9 DAC > XLR > SA-1 > XLR to Focal Stellia.  

Side note I am not finding any issues with the factory volume dial. Works perfectly fine for me. Sure it can be more longer but not enough of an issue for me to bother changing it.  The bright blue led though I wished they used something less dramatic.


----------



## saadi703

Has anyone used this amp with Susvara yet?


----------



## Chamade

kdub said:


> The bright blue led though I wished they used something less dramatic.



Oh no it’s one of those....hopefully a few dabs with a black sharpie works.

Still waiting for mine to ship from Shenzhenaudio...ordered on April, 10 🤔


----------



## Lolito

TitaniumDust said:


> I actually did try that, and it looked funny to me.  Probably would be ok functionally.  If you get the knob closer to the faceplate where it looks better, there is an indentation on the axle that guides the knob right into the faceplate when you tighten the screw.  I figured $9 for another knob should solve all the above issues.


I understand, maybe that set screw it's a problematic depth for that knob in this pot. I would like to install a 38mm knob at a certain time, but will try 30mm first I guess.


----------



## Jay_vs

So I'm finding the sound is changing. Sadly not for the better. it's getting so bright and fatiguing. The low end has kinda reduced as well. Hoping this is just a phase until it settles down, but right now I'm not enjoying it at all.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Jay_vs said:


> So I'm finding the sound is changing. Sadly not for the better. it's getting so bright and fatiguing. The low end has kinda reduced as well. Hoping this is just a phase until it settles down, but right now I'm not enjoying it at all.



Do you have another amp to A/B compare to make certain it's the SA-1 and not some other factor?


----------



## joseG86

saadi703 said:


> Has anyone used this amp with Susvara yet?


You might want to ask the user "Inkey31" @ audiosciencereview.com, he's got many amps, SA-1 included and Susvara


----------



## TitaniumDust

Lolito said:


> I understand, maybe that set screw it's a problematic depth for that knob in this pot. I would like to install a 38mm knob at a certain time, but will try 30mm first I guess.


Keep in mind that this is the first time I've ever tried replacing a volume knob, so I'm a noob and it is possible that the specific knob I ordered acts that way and is not representative of other knobs.  And if you don't mind a gap of several mm between faceplate and knob, then you could probably install any size knob you wish.

@kdub - Normally I don't worry about things like volume knobs, but with this specific amp, I find that, since the pot is heavy-duty and requires more force to turn, that the stock knob is too shallow and too slippery for me.


----------



## quawn0418

Jay_vs said:


> So I'm finding the sound is changing. Sadly not for the better. it's getting so bright and fatiguing. The low end has kinda reduced as well. Hoping this is just a phase until it settles down, but right now I'm not enjoying it at all.


What dac are you using? Many people will argue DACs matter, and I’m starting to believe it myself, I use a RME ADI 2 DAC and I’ve heard people describe it as cold...and this may be true considering that’s it’s designed for accuracy. I’m now considering one of the denefrips dacs to find out for myself.


----------



## kdub

TitaniumDust said:


> Keep in mind that this is the first time I've ever tried replacing a volume knob, so I'm a noob and it is possible that the specific knob I ordered acts that way and is not representative of other knobs.  And if you don't mind a gap of several mm between faceplate and knob, then you could probably install any size knob you wish.
> 
> @kdub - Normally I don't worry about things like volume knobs, but with this specific amp, I find that, since the pot is heavy-duty and requires more force to turn, that the stock knob is too shallow and too slippery for me.


I do agree that the friction of turning with this knob is more stiff vs my existing THX AA 789 which require very little effort and also had a bigger knob.  I do have to pinch a bit when turning the SA-1 knob but maybe with my smaller hands its not an issue for me.


----------



## Lolito

those amps have a very tiny potentiometer, that is why they are so smooth. This singer has a balanced pot, so 4 elements on it. It is a very big pot, like schiit jot2 pot, that is why it feels tighter to turn, but that is a good thing, most people we prefer it like that, good hifi pots are like that. But, they should also have a porper big knob. Jot2 has proper knob in size, this one has a very decent compact knob, better than a90, but similar flat style.


----------



## Jay_vs

Relaxasaurus said:


> Do you have another amp to A/B compare to make certain it's the SA-1 and not some other factor?


I've had a quick compare with my Deckard, which sounds great. Not sure why I'm changing it now lol?
I put the X16 through the Deckard and it sounded really good. 
I'm sure it's just bedding in and it'll settle down soon.


----------



## Jay_vs

quawn0418 said:


> What dac are you using? Many people will argue DACs matter, and I’m starting to believe it myself, I use a RME ADI 2 DAC and I’ve heard people describe it as cold...and this may be true considering that’s it’s designed for accuracy. I’m now considering one of the denefrips dacs to find out for myself.


I had a RME ADI 2 DAC but had to return it, it was like broken glass in my ears. Shame cos it was an awesome bit of kit.


----------



## TitaniumDust

Jay_vs said:


> So I'm finding the sound is changing. Sadly not for the better. it's getting so bright and fatiguing. The low end has kinda reduced as well. Hoping this is just a phase until it settles down, but right now I'm not enjoying it at all.


I wouldn't worry about it now.  Looking back at the thread, it looks like your SA-1 is only about a week old at this point.  Some amps take 300+ hours to fully burn in.  I woke up today and my amp sounded worse and it had definitely entered the pits of burn-in hell, and will probably not completely re-emerge for some time.  Just the normal burn-in process as I've experienced in the past with other components and gear.  I use mine normally during the day and loop pink noise overnight, and will continue to do so for at least 2 weeks.  I'm postponing any further sound quality judgements until the process completes.


----------



## Jay_vs

TitaniumDust said:


> I wouldn't worry about it now.  Looking back at the thread, it looks like your SA-1 is only about a week old at this point.  Some amps take 300+ hours to fully burn in.  I woke up today and my amp sounded worse and it had definitely entered the pits of burn-in hell, and will probably not completely re-emerge for some time.  Just the normal burn-in process as I've experienced in the past with other components and gear.  I use mine normally during the day and loop pink noise overnight, and will continue to do so for at least 2 weeks.  I'm postponing any further sound quality judgements until the process completes.


Ah so I'm not alone. Yeah it's definitely in that zone right now. I'm not to worried at this point.


----------



## nekky

TitaniumDust said:


> I wouldn't worry about it now.  Looking back at the thread, it looks like your SA-1 is only about a week old at this point.  Some amps take 300+ hours to fully burn in.  I woke up today and my amp sounded worse and it had definitely entered the pits of burn-in hell, and will probably not completely re-emerge for some time.  Just the normal burn-in process as I've experienced in the past with other components and gear.  I use mine normally during the day and loop pink noise overnight, and will continue to do so for at least 2 weeks.  I'm postponing any further sound quality judgements until the process completes.





Jay_vs said:


> Ah so I'm not alone. Yeah it's definitely in that zone right now. I'm not to worried at this point.



This forum makes a great support group LOL. What type of pink noise do you use? Silly question probably. I’ve left mine just playing music on low-medium volume - is that acceptable generally speaking?


----------



## ra990

My order from two weeks ago just shipped from Apos. Just fyi for those waiting on theirs.


----------



## Lolito

Units arrived at Europe suppliers today and already sold out. Mine ships tomorrow.


----------



## quawn0418

Haven’t listened to music in maybe a week but I did today and I must say this amp is definitely a step up from the a90 and two steps up from the 789/887...also I was messing around with it and noticed that my Arya’s became more alive when I maxed out the amps volume and adjusted my dacs volume to listening level, just had a more full and engaging feel to them. I don’t know if that’s misuse but I think I’ll be listening this way from now on.


----------



## Lolito

quawn0418 said:


> Haven’t listened to music in maybe a week but I did today and I must say this amp is definitely a step up from the a90 and two steps up from the 789/887...also I was messing around with it and noticed that my Arya’s became more alive when I maxed out the amps volume and adjusted my dacs volume to listening level, just had a more full and engaging feel to them. I don’t know if that’s misuse but I think I’ll be listening this way from now on.


Theory has it that it's better to have the DAC at 100% volumen, 100% detail, then adjust sound level with the pre-amp or headphone amp. If you do it the other way around you are adjusting volume on the digital field, which means lower the volume lowering audio resolution...

Then again for use with a remote, a dac with remote is very cheap, a preamp or headphone amp with remote is very expensive, so, for that use digital volume is the only thing possible.

Tehn again, if the dac provides a ton of power, and the amp has to work in low load and sounds thin or anemic, then well, no other option either... No golden rules i guess.


----------



## quawn0418

Lolito said:


> Theory has it that it's better to have the DAC at 100% volumen, 100% detail, then adjust sound level with the pre-amp or headphone amp. If you do it the other way around you are adjusting volume on the digital field, which means lower the volume lowering audio resolution...
> 
> Then again for use with a remote, a dac with remote is very cheap, a preamp or headphone amp with remote is very expensive, so, for that use digital volume is the only thing possible.
> 
> Tehn again, if the dac provides a ton of power, and the amp has to work in low load and sounds thin or anemic, then well, no other option either... No golden rules i guess.


Yea it’s def something I never done before, but it sounded really good for some reason


----------



## ra990

quawn0418 said:


> Haven’t listened to music in maybe a week but I did today and I must say this amp is definitely a step up from the a90 and two steps up from the 789/887...also I was messing around with it and noticed that my Arya’s became more alive when I maxed out the amps volume and adjusted my dacs volume to listening level, just had a more full and engaging feel to them. I don’t know if that’s misuse but I think I’ll be listening this way from now on.


Nothing wrong with that, it depends on which device has the more transparent volume control. You're essentially using it as a power amplifier, which I wish someone would make for headphones!


----------



## Lolito

Jay_vs said:


> I had a RME ADI 2 DAC but had to return it, it was like broken glass in my ears. Shame cos it was an awesome bit of kit.


I really think any of the current delta sigma chip dacs sound like broken glass really in any busy part of the track. R2R or multibit or chord is the only viable option apparently to leave behind the digital world of broken glass. But for less than rme you can get ARES2. Much less features, but potentially much sweeter and smoother and less sharp sound.


----------



## Jay_vs

Lolito said:


> I really think any of the current delta sigma chip dacs sound like broken glass really in any busy part of the track. R2R or multibit or chord is the only viable option apparently to leave behind the digital world of broken glass. But for less than rme you can get ARES2. Much less features, but potentially much sweeter and smoother and less sharp sound.


I think you might be right. I'm going to give this X16 a chance to run in, it's sounding very good, but does start to sound like a wall of sound when things get busy in a song, then it's a bit fatiguing. The Ares2 is probably where I'll end up I recon.


----------



## Jay_vs

Also wanted to give MQA a go. I was really close to getting the Ares2 but I wanted to see what MQA had to offer. Turns out absolutely nothing, what a swizz.


----------



## nekky

Jay_vs said:


> Also wanted to give MQA a go. I was really close to getting the Ares2 but I wanted to see what MQA had to offer. Turns out absolutely nothing, what a swizz.


I’m in the same boat re: MQA. Don’t find a huge huge difference but there is usually a slightly higher volume level and a little more depth. Varies song to song.
I ended up going with the X26 Pro because I like the clinical nature for electronic music and gaming. I think an R2R will be in my future though, I’d really love to hear and A/B one.


----------



## Lolito (Apr 22, 2021)

MQA is very bad in terms of sound quality, it's a gimmick really. DSD on the other hand has some really good advantages, it really has a transient response faster than vinyl. Sounds really awesome, sometimes, when properly recorded for it and what not. Anyways, it can not be EQ DSD, so another format than not much worth it really. MQA is out of the question, it's a rip off gimmick.

Some dacs tests and links. Even in youtube you can notice some slight differences...


----------



## Jay_vs

nekky said:


> I’m in the same boat re: MQA. Don’t find a huge huge difference but there is usually a slightly higher volume level and a little more depth. Varies song to song.
> I ended up going with the X26 Pro because I like the clinical nature for electronic music and gaming. I think an R2R will be in my future though, I’d really love to hear and A/B one.


I think that's all it is, a slight volume increase which gives the impression of louder is better. I tried it now with roon decoding it, the X16 decoding and it sounds no different. It's a scam for sure.


----------



## nekky

Jay_vs said:


> I think that's all it is, a slight volume increase which gives the impression of louder is better. I tried it now with roon decoding it, the X16 decoding and it sounds no different. It's a scam for sure.


Wish I would’ve known beforehand, I may have ended up with an R2R. Bastards got me. Oh well!


----------



## quawn0418

nekky said:


> Wish I would’ve known beforehand, I may have ended up with an R2R. Bastards got me. Oh well!


Fooled us both, I invested $1200 on my ADI 2 DAC, but I hear so much about denefrips dacs and how even at 1700 the Pontus II is a steal...that’s what I’m saving for now...zeos just uploaded a video on how he can’t hear a difference between fair priced delta-sigs and a $4000+ R2R...but ive learned to take everything he says and believe the exact opposite


----------



## tamleo

Jay_vs said:


> I think you might be right. I'm going to give this X16 a chance to run in, it's sounding very good, but does start to sound like a wall of sound when things get busy in a song, then it's a bit fatiguing. The Ares2 is probably where I'll end up I recon.


Schiit dacs have that wall-of-sound as well. Which is a very dull sound to my ear. I don’t know if it is the way they implemented their hardware or the characteristic of r2r dac chips


----------



## joseG86 (Apr 23, 2021)

tamleo said:


> Schiit dacs have that wall-of-sound as well. Which is a very dull sound to my ear. I don’t know if it is the way they implemented their hardware or the characteristic of r2r dac chips


I've noticed that wall-of-sound thing when playing music from Foobar, soundstage and air increases when using JRiver. Specially orchestras. I'd love if anyone could check this out


----------



## tamleo (Apr 23, 2021)

joseG86 said:


> I've noticed that wall-of-sound thing when playing music from Foobar, soundstange and air increases when using JRiver. Specially orchestras. I'd love if anyone could check this out


Hi, 
I use both jriver and foobar. The Jriver has an upfront sounding and losing details in the lower mids range. Yes it makes the music a little more airy than on the Foobar but still a compressed type of sound. Especially when paired with Schiit amps, it is very irritating to my ears.
Schiit had made one very open sounding amp that was their Asgard 1. Don't know why they have changed to the currently  "try to impress" and congested house sound. Sorry for my topic derail


----------



## J Mirra

tamleo said:


> Hi,
> I use both jriver and foobar. The Jriver has an upfront sounding and losing details in the lower mids range. Yes it makes the music a little more airy than on the Foobar but still a compressed type of sound. Especially when paired with Schiit amps, it is very irritating to my ears.
> Schiit had made one very open sounding amp it was their Asgard 1. Don't know why they have changed to the current "try to impress" and congested house sound. Sorry for my topic derail


I agree, I had used JRiver for a good few years and when I tried foobar I was majorly impressed, like you say JRiver sounds compressed and i think it has a dry harsh sound in comparison.


----------



## Lolito

You can try Audirvana, sounds very good too.


----------



## TitaniumDust

@nekky - I just use a 16/44 wav file of pink noise.  TBH it doesn't really matter what you use for burn in.  My thoughts were that pink noise has the best distribution of frequencies from the lowest to the highest, unlike brown noise which is biased on the low end and white noise which is biased on the high end.  I just googled "pink noise wav" and found a file somewhere.

Regarding DACs: When I purchased my Bifrost 2, I seriously considered adding either MQA or DSD to my capabilities, but ultimately decided that, since my main genres have very little music available in DSD (and I was not really interested in supporting MQA), that I would be better served maximizing PCM playback.  I personally like a fairly sharp sound, but not so sharp that it pierces my eardrums, so after considering DACs like Bifrost 2, Denafrips R2R, D90, etc, I decided that the Bifrost 2 probably had the sound I was most looking for, and luckily I was right.  A good DDC with good cables in the chain really opens up that DAC.

Regarding JRiver: I've been using JRiver for many years now.  A couple of tricks are: (1) If your sound device supports ASIO, use it.  Otherwise use WASAPI.  (2) I enabled memory playback which cleans things up very nicely, though the difference is subtle (but we are all audiophiles, right?).  (3) Minimize any buffers to the lowest setting that doesn't result in playback issues like clicks, stuttering, etc. and that increases sound quality.  (4) Don't use any of the built-in DSPs like EQ, I use a seriously good VST3 EQ plugin (from DMG Audio) and it does really help.  My LCD-X headphones are awesome, but too dark, which is why I need an EQ for them.


----------



## Jay_vs

godmax said:


> Give the SA-1 some days it will improve a bit (I could even reduce the volume after some days of use with the same headphones and source connected).
> Yea getting sound off a headphone and power it properly is something different


I'm convinced you were right. Today this amp feels like it's kicking my head in. It's great. On high gain about 10 o'clock. the bass has really opened up and my LCD-X are thumping like never before. I'm just baffled by the evolution of this thing.


----------



## Jay_vs

Think I may of got around the bright harshness I've been experiencing. It's definitely the X16, not the amp. 
If you turn NOS on in the menu it sounds like crap. All the top end disappears. But, in Roon, if I upsample to 768KHz the top end comes back, but it sounds smooth and not harsh. So i'm going with that for the time being. Sounds really good now.


----------



## cobrabucket

Anyone have any experience comparing the SA-1 with a Jotunheim 2? Would it be redundant to own both? I am not gonna sugar-coat it. I already have a Jot 2 but would really like to have the SA-1 in addition. Thanks!


----------



## Pharmaboy

cobrabucket said:


> Anyone have any experience comparing the SA-1 with a Jotunheim 2? Would it be redundant to own both? I am not gonna sugar-coat it. I already have a Jot 2 but would really like to have the SA-1 in addition. Thanks!



I have 6 amps at present. It has been as many as 9. Here's my 2 cents FWIW:

If your finances allow, get the SA-1
You're obviously curious about it & it might become a great amp for you
Not to mention, it might contrast nicely w/the Jot 2
I have fun switching up amps. Different amps bring different things to each headphone. I like particular things about each amp and wouldn't want to be without any of them.


----------



## cobrabucket (Apr 23, 2021)

Pharmaboy said:


> I have 6 amps at present. It has been as many as 9. Here's my 2 cents FWIW:
> 
> If your finances allow, get the SA-1
> You're obviously curious about it & it might become a great amp for you
> ...


Oh I definitely agree. Just wondering how they compare and contrast. BTW, I am looking to buy an SA-1. Please message me if anyone knows of one available! Cheers!


----------



## nekky

cobrabucket said:


> Oh I definitely agree. Just wondering how they compare and contrast. BTW, I am looking to buy an SA-1. Please message me if anyone knows of one available! Cheers!


There were some in Apos members aisle certified refurbished or something to that effect for $509USD.


----------



## nekky (Apr 23, 2021)

Jay_vs said:


> Think I may of got around the bright harshness I've been experiencing. It's definitely the X16, not the amp.
> If you turn NOS on in the menu it sounds like crap. All the top end disappears. But, in Roon, if I upsample to 768KHz the top end comes back, but it sounds smooth and not harsh. So i'm going with that for the time being. Sounds really good now.


I sort of feel the same re: brightness. I also just upgraded the sound of my SA-1 big time by jumping from the X16 to the X26 Pro. It is a substantial difference. To the point where PCM sounds so much better it’s easily noticeable.


----------



## cobrabucket

nekky said:


> There were some in Apos members aisle certified refurbished or something to that effect for $509USD.


I had it in my cart and it sold out!


----------



## nekky

cobrabucket said:


> I had it in my cart and it sold out!


Damn son! Sorry to hear.  This amp pounds - can confirm. Combined with X26 Pro, I am now SUPER happy with the sound I am getting. Time for more headphones.


----------



## nekky

cobrabucket said:


> I had it in my cart and it sold out!


Hey I just thought actually that it may be worth messaging Shenzhenaudio or Aoshida HiFi directly and see if they might offer you 10% off... I doubt it’s an impossibility.


----------



## cobrabucket

Aoshida uses WhatApp for real time communications.   :/
Waiting to hear back from ShenzhenAudio


----------



## domiji

Does anyone already opened the SA-1 and set the jumpers for the DC mod?

I removed the 4 long screws but unfortunately i can not open the device. 

Beside of that i am still a bit aware of the mod. I dont want to ruin my headphones 😳


----------



## Random Lunatic

Any reports on how this amp matches with HD800 by the way?


----------



## joseG86

nekky said:


> I sort of feel the same re: brightness. I also just upgraded the sound of my SA-1 big time by jumping from the X16 to the X26 Pro. It is a substantial difference. To the point where PCM sounds so much better it’s easily noticeable.


Can you explain how the jump from X16 to X26 is really that noticeable? Thanks!


----------



## Kafé

joseG86 said:


> Can you explain how the jump from X16 to X26 is really that noticeable? Thanks!



I think you can find some interesting comparative information on this link

https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/gustard-x16-dac-review/

friendly


----------



## nekky

joseG86 said:


> Can you explain how the jump from X16 to X26 is really that noticeable? Thanks!


The bass hits SO much harder, cleaner, and in parts of the track where it simply didn’t exist before. It changed my open back planars completely. Everything is better, clearer, and more musical. There are so many more sounds to hear in a given track, it’s not even funny. 

I realize there is a $1k USD delta between the two units, and for some, it will not be worth it. The X26 Pro is easily 3x the unit in materials and weight alone. My unit is not even burned in yet and the difference is quite simply astonishing. And the X16 is fantastic already; everything is relative. 

I am new and arguably naive, but this is end game for my desktop setup, period


----------



## joseG86

nekky said:


> The bass hits SO much harder, cleaner, and in parts of the track where it simply didn’t exist before. It changed my open back planars completely. Everything is better, clearer, and more musical. There are so many more sounds to hear in a given track, it’s not even funny.
> 
> I realize there is a $1k USD delta between the two units, and for some, it will not be worth it. The X26 Pro is easily 3x the unit in materials and weight alone. My unit is not even burned in yet and the difference is quite simply astonishing. And the X16 is fantastic already; everything is relative.
> 
> I am new and arguably naive, but this is end game for my desktop setup, period


Thank you so much, not really important if you are new, your ears and perceptions are not. I will consider X26 Pro but first I've got to sell BF2 and X16 ; ;


----------



## nekky

joseG86 said:


> Thank you so much, not really important if you are new, your ears and perceptions are not. I will consider X26 Pro but first I've got to sell BF2 and X16 ; ;


My pleasure, Jose! I’d love to hear some Final D8000 one day


----------



## joseG86

nekky said:


> My pleasure, Jose! I’d love to hear some Final D8000 one day


It does sound incredibly well defined, detailed and punchy in SA-1


----------



## Lolito

nekky said:


> The bass hits SO much harder, cleaner, and in parts of the track where it simply didn’t exist before. It changed my open back planars completely. Everything is better, clearer, and more musical. There are so many more sounds to hear in a given track, it’s not even funny.
> 
> I realize there is a $1k USD delta between the two units, and for some, it will not be worth it. The X26 Pro is easily 3x the unit in materials and weight alone. My unit is not even burned in yet and the difference is quite simply astonishing. And the X16 is fantastic already; everything is relative.
> 
> I am new and arguably naive, but this is end game for my desktop setup, period


blind test it, then come back.


----------



## nekky

Lolito said:


> blind test it, then come back.


Honestly man, I have listened to hours and hours and hours of tracks on the X16. The X26pro is IMMEDIATELY different. I am way too new to this to propose that I have a golden ear - it is really just that much better. Sorry I can’t comment any more articulately but I wouldn’t even skip a beat asking a random to see if they hear a difference; they will.


----------



## Lolito

Ok, I believe you then. God bless you with no tinitus.


----------



## nekky

Lolito said:


> Ok, I believe you then. God bless you with no tinitus.


It’s funny you mention Tinnitus - now BOTH of my headphones have produced something that gives me “ear shivers” in between songs. I think it’s the “glass-like” sound that typically disappears after burn in. Furthermore, my Elegias were the first to do this on the X16/SA-1 combo, and then they stopped. Now the Aeon Open Xs are doing the same with the new X26pro, but again my unit is pretty fresh. The amount of air that the X26 moves over the X16 is insane in a planar magnetic.


----------



## Jay_vs

Be careful mate, don't mess your hearing up. How does the X26 look with the SA-1? I know it's stupid but the size of the unit on my small desk was why I went for the X16 instead.  I should've just went with it.
Anyone with an idea how the X26pro compares to the Ares2? I'm starting to see a few mixed opinions on the Ares2, the hype isn't real kind of stuff.


----------



## nekky

Jay_vs said:


> Be careful mate, don't mess your hearing up. How does the X26 look with the SA-1? I know it's stupid but the size of the unit on my small desk was why I went for the X16 instead.  I should've just went with it.
> Anyone with an idea how the X26pro compares to the Ares2? I'm starting to see a few mixed opinions on the Ares2, the hype isn't real kind of stuff.


Good advice and yes I have turned it down depending on the track but this new DAC quite literally sucks me into the music. I know it’s very hard to describe as it is a very subjective, personal experience but it is VISCERAL. I have a bit of anxiety when I should be working on something off hours but the music last night literally shut my brain up. Weird explanation, I know, but a big difference from before is all I can say with my hand on my heart. And I was nervous spending the extra dough, trust me.

The unit is way bigger and I share the same concern re: desk space. @Chibs had a really nice dual monitor riser setup in glass that I picked up, and it just fits the X26pro with slight overlap (the feet are all well within the confines of the glass surface).
Bad picture, but here it is for comparison:





Lastly, sorry but I can’t comment on the Ares II comparison - one actually came up for sale locally and if I hadn’t pulled the trigger on the new chonky Gustard, I probably would’ve bought the Ares. Having said that - absolutely zero regrets now.


----------



## Jay_vs

wow it's a beast. Thanks for the pic. It absolutely dwarfs the SA-1 lol 
You've definitely convinced me! What you going to do with the X16?


----------



## Lolito

All these delta sigma dacs are indistinguishible in a blind test, but also unnecesarily overpriced, but they still have that digital sound inherent on that typology. If you look at the real expensive DACS, the Bartoks DCS of the world, the denafrips terminators, etc... ALL OF THEM, all, are R2R ladder, or FPFGA like Chord, or multibit. There is no high end, highly regarded delta sigma dac's out there. They all sound like broken glass.


----------



## Chibs

nekky said:


> Good advice and yes I have turned it down depending on the track but this new DAC quite literally sucks me into the music. I know it’s very hard to describe as it is a very subjective, personal experience but it is VISCERAL. I have a bit of anxiety when I should be working on something off hours but the music last night literally shut my brain up. Weird explanation, I know, but a big difference from before is all I can say with my hand on my heart. And I was nervous spending the extra dough, trust me.
> 
> The unit is way bigger and I share the same concern re: desk space. @Chibs had a really nice dual monitor riser setup in glass that I picked up, and it just fits the X26pro with slight overlap (the feet are all well within the confines of the glass surface).
> Bad picture, but here it is for comparison:
> ...


You're killing me with that X26..
Glad you like the glass shelves are working out for you!


----------



## nekky

Jay_vs said:


> wow it's a beast. Thanks for the pic. It absolutely dwarfs the SA-1 lol
> You've definitely convinced me! What you going to do with the X16?


No problem and sorry for your wallet lol. Probably will sell the X16 - too expensive to return ship to China. 


Lolito said:


> All these delta sigma dacs are indistinguishible in a blind test, but also unnecesarily overpriced, but they still have that digital sound inherent on that typology. If you look at the real expensive DACS, the Bartoks DCS of the world, the denafrips terminators, etc... ALL OF THEM, all, are R2R ladder, or FPFGA like Chord, or multibit. There is no high end, highly regarded delta sigma dac's out there. They all sound like broken glass.


I simply can’t compare so cannot agree or disagree except to say my X26pro sounds great and doesn’t leave me desiring anything. 


Chibs said:


> You're killing me with that X26..
> Glad you like the glass shelves are working out for you!


Haha thanks again for sharing man! Might have to step down to a single unit but we’ll see how I feel in a few days


----------



## Arniesb

Lolito said:


> All these delta sigma dacs are indistinguishible in a blind test, but also unnecesarily overpriced, but they still have that digital sound inherent on that typology. If you look at the real expensive DACS, the Bartoks DCS of the world, the denafrips terminators, etc... ALL OF THEM, all, are R2R ladder, or FPFGA like Chord, or multibit. There is no high end, highly regarded delta sigma dac's out there. They all sound like broken glass.


blah blah. Mate, you read some arcticle and you think you know it all?
All chip dacs sound bad cause enginner of certain dac say so? Ofc they gonna say their technology is best! That is marketing to bait people like you.
Parts, Clocks, power supplies is suddenly not important? R2r, or fpga dacs sound better mostly, because they are generaly more expensive and if Delta sigma dacs cost a lot then it can also sound just as great.
Also delta sigma chips are getting better and better and with better silicon in the future they only gonna get better.
Sure fpga dacs are better when it comes to jitter immunity, but you can also get outsanding jitter performance with great clocks.


----------



## Lolito (Apr 24, 2021)

LOL

The main issue here though is that, nowadays you can get a very analitical amp, with a very analitical dac, with a very capable and neutral and precise speakers or headphones... When the audio it is all surgical, it's broken glass time!!! 

And then you gotta walk the way back and think... "how do I make this less surgical??, hum... " and you gotta swap some stuff in your chain. Many times, often times, you either need a very capable pro/neutral speakers or headphones, so they can play well many genres... Or you have a proper collection of several headphones... and speakers... Oh wait, speakers collection sounds even more complicated that headphones collection... Ok well, then we will rather have 1 versatil set of speakers, if they are studio monitors, there you have the surgical amp integrated... you gotta get some mellow dac and/or amp, tube amp, R2R dac's, etc... If you plan to do listening to musics for say one full afternoon. People prefer vinyl for a reason, as worse as they sound, it's smoother. In a digital source chain, when some parts of the audio chain can not be swapped (speakers+amp, headphones and amp), you better get some mellow electronics, otherwise... broken glass time!!!

NOW, if you have a vintage set of speakers, and a mellow warm headphones and or headphone amp... welcome delta sigma dacs every time, they are cheaper and more precise. If you have a warm output, and also say a tube amp, then delta sigma dac will be more than welcome, and the surgical broken glass will be the most welcomed signature for that part of the audio chain.


----------



## Jay_vs

The Singxer SDA-6 Pro version looks like another good option. Wonder how it compares to the X26 pro and Ares 2? Now I don't give a monkeys about MQA it's an option.


----------



## nekky

Jay_vs said:


> The Singxer SDA-6 Pro version looks like another good option. Wonder how it compares to the X26 pro and Ares 2? Now I don't give a monkeys about MQA it's an option.


It’s probably great as I hear most Singxer products are. I’m interested in their DDC but not sure I need it really being fed from my PC.


----------



## Jay_vs

It's so hard to make decisions with zero chance of demoing and having to buy blind.  
Just seen a Denafrips Pontus II discounted, that would be a big upgrade I'd imagine.
​


----------



## Chibs

Jay_vs said:


> It's so hard to make decisions with zero chance of demoing and having to buy blind.
> Just seen a Denafrips Pontus II discounted, that would be a big upgrade I'd imagine.
> ​


You're preaching to the quire. Would love to demo Meze Empyrean before dropping $$ on it.


----------



## nekky

Chibs said:


> You're preaching to the quire. Would love to demo Meze Empyrean before dropping $$ on it.


----------



## Dopaminer

Lolito said:


> All these delta sigma dacs are indistinguishible in a blind test, but also unnecesarily overpriced, but they still have that digital sound inherent on that typology. If you look at the real expensive DACS, the Bartoks DCS of the world, the denafrips terminators, etc... ALL OF THEM, all, are R2R ladder, or FPFGA like Chord, or multibit. There is no high end, highly regarded delta sigma dac's out there. They all sound like broken glass.


 
I had the Luxman DA-06 for a few years in Japan but sold it when I left (incredibly dumb decision). As someone who was able to demo and own many many DACs, the DA-06 sounded distinctive. It's a DS dac using Burr-Bown.  I had the opportunity to blnd-test it using my own amp, speakers, and source files, against my balanced TEAC dac (AK), the mystery 24/192 dac in my tube preamp, and my A&K player with Cirrus chips. 
I could pick the Luxman out every single time - the other 3 were basically random-chance, though the dac in the preamp I did identify as the worse of the bunch more times than not.


----------



## Dopaminer

Jay_vs said:


> Just seen a Denafrips Pontus II discounted, that would be a big upgrade I'd imagine.
> ​


I catch myself trying to re-organize my life in order to afford the Venus II.


----------



## tenisnut333 (Apr 25, 2021)

Based on my recent listening experience, this Chinese-made class A ss amp is very musical-sounding (coming from a modern tube guy), and very dynamic!   Using balanced headphone output, low gain, and low impedence settings, it wonderfully reproduces the acoustic piano (as played by Keiko Matsui on her "The Piano" CD), which the piano is usually very difficult to accurately reproduce, through my Focal Elex and ZMF Aeolus headphones! 

The top end of this amp is mildly sweet, however, I noted that the treble area became slightly "bright" and eventually fatiguing (after 30+ minutes) when the SA-1 is set to high gain setting with the Focal Elex.   (Yes, I'm aware that some readers have noted some brightness when listening to the Focal Flex.)  So, the low gain setting is highly recommended for this wonderful amp for most headphones unless high gain is needed for difficult-to-drive headphones.  

(BTW I'm currently using the original Bifrost MB DAC but I'm planning to get the new Bifrost 2 in order to have full balanced operation, let's see if the sound quality improves a bit.)


----------



## Random Lunatic

Lolito said:


> All these delta sigma dacs are indistinguishible in a blind test, but also unnecesarily overpriced, but they still have that digital sound inherent on that typology. If you look at the real expensive DACS, the Bartoks DCS of the world, the denafrips terminators, etc... ALL OF THEM, all, are R2R ladder, or FPFGA like Chord, or multibit. There is no high end, highly regarded delta sigma dac's out there. They all sound like broken glass.


Pretty sure Bricasti makes a delta sigma dac for one, as well as Auralic... and that’s just ones I know off the top of my head.
Although, in before those don’t qualify as high end, highly regarded or good sounding by some arbitrary logic, ignoring all their glowing reviews and user feedback... Though wether they sound indistinguishable I couldn’t say - but they certainly sound very good.


----------



## Muataz

Jay_vs said:


> The Singxer SDA-6 Pro version looks like another good option. Wonder how it compares to the X26 pro and Ares 2? Now I don't give a monkeys about MQA it's an option.


I friend of mine sold his ares ii after getting x26pro. But he didn't like ares ii in first please


----------



## Jay_vs

Chibs said:


> You're preaching to the quire. Would love to demo Meze Empyrean before dropping $$ on it.


Yeah dumb thing to say. Sorry


----------



## Jay_vs

Muataz said:


> I friend of mine sold his ares ii after getting x26pro. But he didn't like ares ii in first please


The more I read it's becoming more apparent that it's not the holy grail.


----------



## bouscadie

Hi all,

what is the preamp part of the Singxer worth?

and how does it heat up?

Thanks,


----------



## nekky

bouscadie said:


> Hi all,
> 
> what is the preamp part of the Singxer worth?
> 
> ...


I only preamped my Geshelli Archel 2.5 Pro via XLR but it’s hard to judge as it’s only SE and I always listen balanced. It’s a great little amp but nowhere near as resolving and full as the SA-1.

It heats up nicely and stays warm - I just leave mine on all the time now. X26 Pro also gets very warm


----------



## Fly2High

My SA-1 barely feels warmer than ambient. If I didn’t see the light, I wouldn’t know it is on. I also use it all day while at work both with headphones and as a preamp to a pair of Edifiers.  Love the single volume control for both.


----------



## joseG86

I'd like to add something as SA-1 owner, please save money and get better headphones, it will improve 70% of the system lol


----------



## nekky

joseG86 said:


> I'd like to add something as SA-1 owner, please save money and get better headphones, it will improve 70% of the system lol


This. One doesn’t need any more HPA than this. Upgrade your DAC, your headphones, or better yet, buy nice something for your wife or kids.


----------



## joseG86

nekky said:


> This. One doesn’t need any more HPA than this. Upgrade your DAC, your headphones, or better yet, buy nice something for your wife or kids.


I'd spend all my money cheap-traveling everywhere, Cvid killed my traveling-journey but music saved me.


----------



## nekky

joseG86 said:


> I'd spend all my money cheap-traveling everywhere, Cvid killed my traveling-journey but music saved me.


Same. Haven’t been able to travel to the UK for work since last March.


----------



## Jay_vs

joseG86 said:


> I'd like to add something as SA-1 owner, please save money and get better headphones, it will improve 70% of the system lol


So weird. I've been thinking today, instead of looking for better electronics, get more headphones. this amp is amazing and the dac is growing on me, so as you say get better headphones.


----------



## Aztech

Would the SA-1 be an upgrade to my Audio-gd NFB-1AMP? Has anyone made a comparison? Thanks in advance


----------



## saadi703

joseG86 said:


> You might want to ask the user "Inkey31" @ audiosciencereview.com, he's got many amps, SA-1 included and Susvara


I sent him a private message on head-fi but it seems that he is not active on the forum these days. He didn't reply and I am not sure how to send private message on audiosciencereview.com website.


----------



## Lolito

Lolito said:


> LOL





Random Lunatic said:


> Pretty sure Bricasti makes a delta sigma dac for one, as well as Auralic... and that’s just ones I know off the top of my head.
> Although, in before those don’t qualify as high end, highly regarded or good sounding by some arbitrary logic, ignoring all their glowing reviews and user feedback... Though wether they sound indistinguishable I couldn’t say - but they certainly sound very good.


Not even after 500€ in drugs I spend any money in a DAC from Bricasti, or Auralic. Not even very very high. RME, fine, but Brocasti???? I mean, really??? Seriously??

A Bartok,  a chord, a.... But A dac, from Brocasti??? hahahahaha And why not bugatti? LOL



Ducati DAC, La Ferrari


----------



## Lolito

Bartok R2R all the way!!


----------



## Jay_vs

Umm, it's £11,499 do you own one?


----------



## Chibs

I just spent half an hour switching from my Rme Adi 2 Dac to the Gustard X16, both connected to the GSX mini. I can't tell the difference between the two. Would I be able to pick out a Bartok? I think it's better to spend $ on Headphones and a good amp.


----------



## saadi703 (Apr 25, 2021)

Chibs said:


> I just spent half an hour switching from my Rme Adi 2 Dac to the Gustard X16, both connected to the GSX mini. I can't tell the difference between the two. Would I be able to pick out a Bartok? I think it's better to spend $ on Headphones and a good amp.


In my opinion, headphones make 80% of difference, amps 15% and DACs 5%. Better to spend money on headphones. I spend most of my money on headphones.
By the way, how is GSX mini in terms of sound signature and at the same time detail retrieval. Do you also own SA-1? If yes then how does it compare with Mini?


----------



## Lolito

Chibs said:


> I just spent half an hour switching from my Rme Adi 2 Dac to the Gustard X16, both connected to the GSX mini. I can't tell the difference between the two. Would I be able to pick out a Bartok? I think it's better to spend $ on Headphones and a good amp.


Exactly, those are both similar range of quality, same type dac. RME more features. Some people might notice a difference with a fast A/B switching. Some people might not notice any difference without that switch, and still would claim they are a world apart and they noticed. bias.

If you have a big house in the center of manhattan like the guy of the video, a 10 million euros house, or more, buy the bartok. Otherwise buy the Ares 2. You would certainly pick a bartok, it's a different type, if you have a revealing speakers of headphones of a certain quality. HD6xx or better you will tell the difference.


----------



## Random Lunatic (Apr 25, 2021)

Lolito said:


> Not even after 500€ in drugs I spend any money in a DAC from Bricasti, or Auralic. Not even very very high. RME, fine, but Brocasti???? I mean, really??? Seriously??
> 
> A Bartok,  a chord, a.... But A dac, from Brocasti??? hahahahaha And why not bugatti? LOL


Got to love how you set up a hyperbolic statement, and when its proven wrong, you just ignore that, and move right along to the next ridiculous response, and actually managing something even more ridiculous than what I'd chalked up. If you've heard and tested the amps you're ridiculing, do tell - though given your attitude and conclusion they all sound the same (which is a perfectly fair conclusion), I doubt there would be any point.

So could you either A) make an actual response, contributing something to the conversation, rather than just ridiculing/trolling. Or B) If you have nothing to contribute, lets get back to the actual topic of this thread, i.e. the SA-1? So this thread isn't derailed with another 'controversial' topic.

I for one am not responding to any further to this scene you're making. - And I would honestly find it more in order for this string to be removed from the thread.


----------



## Random Lunatic

saadi703 said:


> In my opinion, headphones make 80% of difference, amps 15% and DACs 5%. Better to spend money on headphones. I spend most of my money on headphones.
> By the way, how is GSX mini in terms of sound signature and at the same time detail retrieval. Do you also own SA-1? If yes then how does it compare with Mini?


I'd agree with that - I started out in this hobby not seeing the point in most expensive desktop gear, as I found most of it to not be audibly any better than the best portable gear on the market at the time; which was way more convenient, not to mention cheaper.
Since then I've dabbled in some of the more expensive stuff on the market, and have arrived back at a similar conclusion in all honesty - there are improvements to be gained, particularly with hard to drive headphones of course, but just in general, but amps/dacs have always been the least exciting to spend money on for me, as they generally present the least notable effect, once you've passed a certain level of quality... Ignoring oddities that intentionally colour the sound of course.
This is also why I'm curious about the SA-1: it seems like a good bet at that reasonable standard.


----------



## Lolito

schiit bifrost or multibit also very musical dacs, and with a good price.


----------



## Lolito

Random Lunatic said:


> Got to love how you set up a hyperbolic statement, and when its proven wrong, you just ignore that, and move right along to the next ridiculous response, and actually managing something even more ridiculous than what I'd chalked up. If you've heard and tested the amps you're ridiculing, do tell - though given your attitude and conclusion they all sound the same (which is a perfectly fair conclusion), I doubt there would be any point.
> 
> So could you either A) make an actual response, contributing something to the conversation, rather than just ridiculing/trolling. Or B) If you have nothing to contribute, lets get back to the actual topic of this thread, i.e. the SA-1? So this thread isn't derailed with another 'controversial' topic.
> 
> I for one am not responding to any further to this scene you're making. - And I would honestly find it more in order for this string to be removed from the thread.


Hoho, so much drama!! oh my gosh. I said i´m not buying anything bisconti or aurealic, no matter what. Respect my opinion, like I always respect yours. I you like bisconti dac, then biscotis dac that is. Or ducati. Or bugati, whatever suits your boat, mrs drama. But I´m not buying any bisconti. SA-1, mine said ready for pick up, but went there and it is not there, so... monday if i am lucky it will be there for pick up, but with all the corona logistics issues, I doubt it.


----------



## Lolito (Apr 25, 2021)

Bricasti!!

LOL !!

https://www.stereophile.com/content/bricasti-design-m1-da-converter-page-2

diplodocus dac. looks beautiful inside, 3 toroidal psu.


----------



## Chibs

saadi703 said:


> In my opinion, headphones make 80% of difference, amps 15% and DACs 5%. Better to spend money on headphones. I spend most of my money on headphones.
> By the way, how is GSX mini in terms of sound signature and at the same time detail retrieval. Do you also own SA-1? If yes then how does it compare with Mini?


Don't own the SA-1 to compare unfortunately. According to Z reviews there's not much difference in sound between the two. Not sure if affiliate links influenced his decision though. The GSX Mini is the nicest sounding amp I've ever heard. Unlike my dacs I can easily discern the difference between it and my other amps. Love the way it looks and the build quality is excellent. 



Chib


----------



## Chibs

Lolito said:


> Exactly, those are both similar range of quality, same type dac. RME more features. Some people might notice a difference with a fast A/B switching. Some people might not notice any difference without that switch, and still would claim they are a world apart and they noticed. bias.
> 
> If you have a big house in the center of manhattan like the guy of the video, a 10 million euros house, or more, buy the bartok. Otherwise buy the Ares 2. You would certainly pick a bartok, it's a different type, if you have a revealing speakers of headphones of a certain quality. HD6xx or better you will tell the difference.


Ares 2 keeps coming up all over the place. Will have to somehow demo one at some point and see if I can hear a deference.
The Rme is a well built dac that looks great and has so many features I never use. It's pretty much wasted on me.


----------



## Dopaminer

Aztech said:


> Would the SA-1 be an upgrade to my Audio-gd NFB-1AMP? Has anyone made a comparison? Thanks in advance


This. 
I was originally planning to get the 1AMP but it's discontinued. I am super happy with the SA-1 but would love to compare them side by side. 
The 1AMP weighs 3x the SA-1 LOL


----------



## Lolito

Mine arrived finally. Had to remove the feet to fit it under the desk. Feet bolt thread is done in a hole of the botyom plate, so the thread is part of the plate, no loose nut, nothing to loose. Testing it fully single ended. First impression is the noise floor very high, very dirty sound when in silent parts, compared to a well used jds labs atom. A bit sibilant too, or lush. More lush than sibilant. Has to break in and i have to get used to it, at this moment 99$ jds sounds better.


----------



## Lolito (Apr 26, 2021)

The included knob measures exactly 32mm, not 30mm as someone else wrote. Bass is very round, is full, it is not recessed, it might have been recesed before, with jds, or when outputting directly from the dac. It certainly sounds better than straight from the dac, not so much broken glass, edges smoothed out. Bass has body.


----------



## Jay_vs

Give it some time. I've got an Atom amp, as good as it is, the SA-1 beats it in every way.


----------



## arar

I've always been skeptical of burn-in in general and I haven't even heard of it being a thing with amps at all, so it's a bit surprising to hear how all over the place the sound seems to be for the first days for some of you. What's there in an amplifier that could change so drastically with a bit of use?


----------



## Muataz

Lolito said:


> Mine arrived finally. Had to remove the feet to fit it under the desk. Feet bolt thread is done in a hole of the botyom plate, so the thread is part of the plate, no loose nut, nothing to loose. Testing it fully single ended. First impression is the noise floor very high, very dirty sound when in silent parts, compared to a well used jds labs atom. A bit sibilant too, or lush. More lush than sibilant. Has to break in and i have to get used to it, at this moment 99$ jds sounds better.


SE output is 32 times noisier than balance.


----------



## Jay_vs

arar said:


> I've always been skeptical of burn-in in general and I haven't even heard of it being a thing with amps at all, so it's a bit surprising to hear how all over the place the sound seems to be for the first days for some of you. What's there in an amplifier that could change so drastically with a bit of use?


No idea what it is, but for me personally I've experienced it with loads of different equipment, like My Kuro plasma and now OLED TV, AV receivers/amps, headphones. Maybe it's all in my head, but I'm convinced it's not.


----------



## Lolito

Lolito said:


> The included knob measures exactly 32mm, not 30mm as someone else wrote. Bass is very round, is full, it is not recessed, it might have been recesed before, with jds, or when outputting directly from the dac. It certainly sounds better than straight from the dac, not so much broken glass, edges smoothed out. Bass has body.


Actually it was an eq preset with bass tilted that I like to use and didn't noticed it was activated, bass is like with the atom, sounds the same really.


----------



## joseG86

arar said:


> I've always been skeptical of burn-in in general and I haven't even heard of it being a thing with amps at all, so it's a bit surprising to hear how all over the place the sound seems to be for the first days for some of you. What's there in an amplifier that could change so drastically with a bit of use?


I let the SA-1 4-5 days straight 24/7 and needed to go 3:30 o'clock in Arya while Jot 2 only 12 o'clock at same level. It suddenly became "louder" and now I just need 12 o'clock for the same volume, the SA-1 improves everyday


Lolito said:


> Mine arrived finally. Had to remove the feet to fit it under the desk. Feet bolt thread is done in a hole of the botyom plate, so the thread is part of the plate, no loose nut, nothing to loose. Testing it fully single ended. First impression is the noise floor very high, very dirty sound when in silent parts, compared to a well used jds labs atom. A bit sibilant too, or lush. More lush than sibilant. Has to break in and i have to get used to it, at this moment 99$ jds sounds better.


Looks amazing!


----------



## nekky

joseG86 said:


> I let the SA-1 4-5 days straight 24/7 and needed to go 3:30 o'clock in Arya while Jot 2 only 12 o'clock at same level. It suddenly became "louder" and now I just need 12 o'clock for the same volume, the SA-1 improves everyday



Same.  Also a big difference going to the new DAC as well - can someone tell me if this would have to do with the X26pro outputting 5V via XLR as opposed to 4V on the X16?


----------



## Jay_vs

nekky said:


> Same.  Also a big difference going to the new DAC as well - can someone tell me if this would have to do with the X26pro outputting 5V via XLR as opposed to 4V on the X16?


I would hope the improvement isn't just down to the increased input voltage. Have you volume match them and can you hear differences then?


----------



## nekky

Jay_vs said:


> I would hope the improvement isn't just down to the increased input voltage. Have you volume match them and can you hear differences then?


No, the difference is not volume only, I swear lol


----------



## Jay_vs

How does the volume knob come off? Non of my Alan keys work


----------



## Chibs

Jay_vs said:


> How does the volume knob come off? Non of my Alan keys work


Don't force it, you may need the correct size. My alan key was metric and off by a mm or less and had the same problem. I ordered an imperial set and it came out easily.


----------



## Jay_vs

Thanks. Nothings easy lol


----------



## Aztech (Apr 26, 2021)

Dopaminer said:


> This.
> I was originally planning to get the 1AMP but it's discontinued. I am super happy with the SA-1 but would love to compare them side by side.
> The 1AMP weighs 3x the SA-1 LOL


The size of the 1amp is the reason I want to upgrade to something better but smaller lol. It just takes up too much desk real estate... The SA-1 just might be what I'm looking for.


----------



## joseG86

Aztech said:


> The size of the 1amp is the reason I want to upgrade to something better but smaller lol. It just takes up too much desk real estate... The SA-1 just might be what I'm looking for.


That 1080 wants an upgrade to 3080 too


----------



## Lolito

Aztech said:


> The size of the 1amp is the reason I want to upgrade to something better but smaller lol. It just takes up too much desk real estate... The SA-1 just might be what I'm looking for.


That thing looks cool. I would install it under the desk, so it takes zero space desk, and the knob position is actually better from when not typing. When typing you can adjust volume via keyboard. Or that is how I would do it at least. With some large L screws, 4 of them, you can attach that thing underneath.


----------



## Aztech

joseG86 said:


> That 1080 wants an upgrade to 3080


Most definitely lol... But with the current GPU market its almost impossible to get one, Let alone at msrp.


Lolito said:


> That thing looks cool. I would install it under the desk, so it takes zero space desk, and the knob position is actually better from when not typing. When typing you can adjust volume via keyboard. Or that is how I would do it at least. With some large L screws, 4 of them, you can attach that thing underneath.


Well it sounds like a good idea but in the digital domain you want to avoid adjusting the volume through windows. You will lose resolution...


----------



## Lolito

It's a great looking amp this SA-1. I think just for the quality of construction, connection options, in and outputs, pot quality, real balanced/differential, just for all that it is worth it the SA-1 price. 

The knob movement is very nice, solid, smooth, but can not move by itself. It will not go crazy up in volume, it is like in an expensive hifi integrated amp from back in the day. Knob size and design is understandable considering current trends, spaces and all that, but it really needs something much deeper and bigger, will order the large silver knob as the one from the wellow forum member who showed it first. Testing all single ended now, both speakers out as pre-amp and with HD6xx as amp. Will replace both cables with XLR/balanced and report back results. Low gain seems high enough, at this moment. I guess I will use 98% low gain, but in low gain already went right to the 6 o clock end, wanting for more, just like any other amp. Gain switch on the bottom would be the only complain that I could make at the moment. And the noise floor is through the roof compared with JDS atom. Not necessarily a bad thing, and not sure if that will stay or go with break in. Soundwise also waiting to break it in more, but I can already notice there is body in the bass, also when you rise the volume, didn't happen with jds. Volume levels now make more sense, jds could go way too high, and loose bass when volume was up, not anymore with SA-1.


----------



## nekky

Lolito said:


> It's a great looking amp this SA-1. I think just for the quality of construction, connection options, in and outputs, pot quality, real balanced/differential, just for all that it is worth it the SA-1 price.
> 
> The knob movement is very nice, solid, smooth, but can not move by itself. It will not go crazy up in volume, it is like in an expensive hifi integrated amp from back in the day. Knob size and design is understandable considering current trends, spaces and all that, but it really needs something much deeper and bigger, will order the large silver knob as the one from the wellow forum member who showed it first. Testing all single ended now, both speakers out as pre-amp and with HD6xx as amp. Will replace both cables with XLR/balanced and report back results. Low gain seems high enough, at this moment. I guess I will use 98% low gain, but in low gain already went right to the 6 o clock end, wanting for more, just like any other amp. Gain switch on the bottom would be the only complain that I could make at the moment. And the noise floor is through the roof compared with JDS atom. Not necessarily a bad thing, and not sure if that will stay or go with break in. Soundwise also waiting to break it in more, but I can already notice there is body in the bass, also when you rise the volume, didn't happen with jds. Volume levels now make more sense, jds could go way too high, and loose bass when volume was up, not anymore with SA-1.


Glad to hear you are coming around


----------



## Jay_vs

So I just purchased an Ares2. I have to know what it's like, it'll drive me insane never finding out.


----------



## Fly2High

Jay_vs said:


> How does the volume knob come off? Non of my Alan keys work


I think it is a 1/16" Allen


----------



## Lolito

Aztech said:


> Most definitely lol... But with the current GPU market its almost impossible to get one, Let alone at msrp.
> 
> Well it sounds like a good idea but in the digital domain you want to avoid adjusting the volume through windows. You will lose resolution...


yes, but sometimes you are doing your accounting in excel, with the keyboard and will need to turn down the volume just a moment, I use the keyboard for that moment. Or you can use the knob all the time.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Apr 26, 2021)

Jay_vs said:


> No idea what it is, but for me personally I've experienced it with loads of different equipment, like My Kuro plasma and now OLED TV, AV receivers/amps, headphones. Maybe it's all in my head, but I'm convinced it's not.



Not all audio/video gear will benefit from burn-in. But for any gear that does benefit, the changes in sound are pretty easy to hear. I can think of 4 or 5 audio items I probably would've sold pretty quickly had I not waited for min. 150 hrs burn-in to critically evaluate.

Because I can never predict which gear will benefit, I burn it all in. Headphones & speakers, being physical transducers of sound, are always candidates for burn-in IMO.

I burned in my Kuro, too--but the reason there was to reduce the likelihood of image retention (which I'm pretty sure it did).


----------



## Random Lunatic

arar said:


> I've always been skeptical of burn-in in general and I haven't even heard of it being a thing with amps at all, so it's a bit surprising to hear how all over the place the sound seems to be for the first days for some of you. What's there in an amplifier that could change so drastically with a bit of use?


Don't know if its the case here, but I know some engineers who work with the stuff, who say capacitors take burn in. Transformers can too in a sense - the result of which, if you're unlucky, can be the dreaded trafo-hum, if the windings settle in an unfortunate way, as can sometimes be heard from big old class A/AB amplifiers.
Though whether any of that affects the sound to an appreciable degree, I personally couldn't tell you.


----------



## joseG86

Jay_vs said:


> So I just purchased an Ares2. I have to know what it's like, it'll drive me insane never finding out.


were you able to find a single difference between it and x16? be honest, please


----------



## Jay_vs

joseG86 said:


> were you able to find a single difference between it and x16? be honest, please


Won't know until it arrives


----------



## Chibs

Jay_vs said:


> So I just purchased an Ares2. I have to know what it's like, it'll drive me insane never finding out.





joseG86 said:


> were you able to find a single difference between it and x16? be honest, please



I'm super curious myself!! I don't own a Sa-1, and am not even considering buying one but really enjoying this thread!
Glad someone mentioned me earlier or I would have never walked in the door!


----------



## joseG86

Jay_vs said:


> Won't know until it arrives


ops 🤣


----------



## Jay_vs

You should get one it's outstanding.


----------



## quawn0418

Jay_vs said:


> You should get one it's outstanding.


Are you referring to the sa-1 or the ares 2


----------



## Jay_vs

quawn0418 said:


> Are you referring to the sa-1 or the ares 2


sorry, the SA-1


----------



## Lolito

A couple of questions for anyone using balanced cables, since this amp takes balanced... If you want to make your current balanced cable longer, say 3 meters, or 5 meters. 3 would be enough though, where do I buy such extension cable??? seen them of 3.5 and 6.35, and XLR 3 pin male female, but 2.5mm, or pentacon, or pentacon to 2.5mm 3 m long, I can not find. Please let me know. Otherwise I can maybe order a custom thing...


----------



## Jay_vs

I think you'd be looking at a custom job for that. 4pin XLR to XLR are easy to find. But not 4.4mm female to 2.2mm male.


----------



## Lolito

more like 4.4 male, to 4.4 female. or 44mm male to 2.5mm female is what I would like to have, so I can either use BTR5, or with tiny adapter to amp, or with an extra 3m adapter cable to the nearby area up to 3m...


----------



## quawn0418

I just let my girlfriend (non-audiophile) a/b the sa-1 and thx 887/789 runnin the singxers pre out to the 887 (don’t know how practical that is..still learning the rules lol) but I volume matched both amps and had both set to hi gain, it took her about 2 minutes of back and forth listening to tell me what she thought, and somehow her thoughts were the exact same as mines. She said that the thx sounded cleaner, and that she prefers the thx over the sa-1. I told her she doesn’t know anything about long listening sessions lol anyhow again, the sa-1 isn’t as clean as the thx amps, but it has some character with it, and it’s more dynamic than the 887/789 for sure, there’s more space between notes and vocals with the sa-1, not saying that it has more soundstage (I can’t tell any difference between soundstage) but it is more dynamic and may come off that way. However nothing reaches out any further to me than with the thx. The sa-1 is a really good amp, glad I decided to keep it.


----------



## Capunk

Jay_vs said:


> So I just purchased an Ares2. I have to know what it's like, it'll drive me insane never finding out.


Same here, mate
but I sold my gustard x16 beforehand and turns out Ares 2 is...
"different"


----------



## quawn0418

Capunk said:


> Same here, mate
> but I sold my gustard x16 beforehand and turns out Ares 2 is...
> "different"


Different as in better? Do tell


----------



## Jay_vs

Capunk said:


> Same here, mate
> but I sold my gustard x16 beforehand and turns out Ares 2 is...
> "different"


Lol you tease. I hope its a good different


----------



## Chibs

Capunk said:


> Same here, mate
> but I sold my gustard x16 beforehand and turns out Ares 2 is...
> "different"


I just sold my RME Adi 2 dac and am left with X-16.
Using funds to buy Meze Empyrean. Hope I did the right thing. Just boxed it up and already missing that beautiful screen with it's spectral analyzer!


----------



## Jay_vs

Chibs said:


> I just sold my RME Adi 2 dac and am left with X-16.
> Using funds to buy Meze Empyrean. Hope I did the right thing. Just boxed it up and already missing that beautiful screen with it's spectral analyzer!


From my memory of the RME adi 2, the X16 sounds better to me.


----------



## Lolito

I have to say, this class A thing really is pleasurable. Specially after 4 weeks without an amp, with speakers connected directly to the dac, was all broken glass sound, kind of. Could be equed down, but anyhow, this amp now takes out those edges, and gives body to the bass. Sounds clearly less clean than the previous jds atom opamp good measuring amp, but gives quite some body to the bass with my speakers. Used it all afternoon with the subwoofer off, didn't want the sub, which just works way way down anyways. The SA-1 gives warmth around the 60-120Hz I guess. Maybe gives better subbass too? didn't test that, subwoofer was off all time. I would not call this amp edgy or sharp. Didnt try modern electronic music or transient speed... not sure it is any "faster" than usual class d, but then again, i just tested it for 8 hours.

All in all, like Zeos said of rebel amp: sounds expensive, like good old HIFI warm-ish, but still precise, like a expensive class A amp Sansui with super-feedforward system. It is just maybe a tiny bit of reverb on the notes, bass guitar notes sound now thick as they should.

Soundstage seems to me now HUGE in headphones, but I think that is because I spent 2-4 week via BTR5 in APTX bluetooth only, now soundstage feels huge in comparison. Seems powerful enough to me in low gain already with 300Ohm HD6XX single ended. Balanced should be even louder, so no need for high gain anyways.

I do not notice any difference with the Z switch with this headphone. Didn't try with an IEM yet. The knob has some resistance, which is welcome, but then it is slippery, need a bit of force to clamp it to turn it, I think one or those molted or riveted or spike surfaced knob would be the best. Could not find any knobs on 32mm like the original knob. It does get warm to the touch indeed.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32814287576.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.68a93c003qkd3o&mp=1


----------



## quawn0418

Chibs said:


> I just sold my RME Adi 2 dac and am left with X-16.
> Using funds to buy Meze Empyrean. Hope I did the right thing. Just boxed it up and already missing that beautiful screen with it's spectral analyzer!


That’s my fear also, I want to sell mines but I know I’ll miss it


----------



## kdub

Jay_vs said:


> So I just purchased an Ares2. I have to know what it's like, it'll drive me insane never finding out.


very tempted to try a R2R dac to hear what all the fuss is about too. Please report your results vs best delta sigma dac you have heard as a comparison. The Ares II or Pontus II got me very interested if it is need fuller body, more airy, natural and more organic sounding, wider sound stage as they say.


----------



## Capunk

quawn0418 said:


> Different as in better? Do tell





Jay_vs said:


> Lol you tease. I hope its a good different





Jay_vs said:


> Lol you tease. I hope its a good different



Alright, just a slighty OOT (sorry OP) X16 was an upgrade from my previous DAC, Topping D70 (AKM4497EQ). 
With Topping A90 + X16 my setup is becoming an "uber" bright sounding setup especially paired with HD800 (SDR), 
although those details and resolutions are really shining with the previous setup, Ares II was my first entry to R-2R and the real key difference is in the technicalities. 
It can be detailed enough to my liking but somewhat some of the songs in my playlist has a certain distinct "distortion" as if the DAC wasn't fully rendered the music?
this only applies to certain music (especially with complex math rock / instrumentals), but I can see the analog appeal out this DAC, with NOS mode on, the sound is widened a bit compared to OS mode, yet i can identify the location of instruments within the track. This kinda worries me a bit if I gone sell my A90 and get a Class A amp someday, cause the warmness of this DAC might suited best with the neutral or analytical amp.


----------



## Jay_vs

Thanks for that mate. A little worrying I have to say, I listen to the same music. I was hoping intense parts would be rendered clearer and not just mush up into a wall of noise like it does on every day dac I've ever owned. The distortion thing is especially troubling, I'm very sensitive to clipping sounds and distortion which most modern music is riddled with. Oh no...
Well, time will tell.


----------



## domiji

joseG86 said:


> · I have been testing *SA-1* and *Jot 2* with *Arya* and *Clear* for *5 days*. XLR was used as output (Forza Noir Hybrid HPC cable)
> · *Bifrost 2* was the DAC used.
> · Both amps were *connected 24/7* to the same pure sine wave UPS.
> ·* XLR* and *RCA* were used for this test (Mogami XLR and AudioQuest RCA) (DAC>AMP)
> ...



Hello  

thanks for your great comparision! Did you still use the SA-1 with your Aryas in low gain mode?

Best
Dominik


----------



## domiji

Singxer SA-1 pairs exceptionally well with the Arya in low-gain/low-z mode


----------



## joseG86

domiji said:


> Hello
> 
> thanks for your great comparision! Did you still use the SA-1 with your Aryas in low gain mode?
> 
> ...


I don't usually use Arya anymore but I really enjoyed the crystal clear sound from SA-1 with it, extremelly detailed sound and enough bass without EQ!

Low gain mode when default tuning and high gain when EQed, I think SA-1 can make Arya sound to its best where it's all about the quality of the music recording you play and I can say that Arya is very very cheap at its price, compared to D8000 Pro, Arya performs amazingly good.


----------



## domiji

joseG86 said:


> I don't usually use Arya anymore but I really enjoyed the crystal clear sound from SA-1 with it, extremelly detailed sound and enough bass without EQ!
> 
> Low gain mode when default tuning and high gain when EQed, I think SA-1 can make Arya sound to its best where it's all about the quality of the music recording you play and I can say that Arya is very very cheap at its price, compared to D8000 Pro, Arya performs amazingly good.



Thank you very much  

Do you may can post your EQ settings for the Arya with the SA-1? That would be aweseome 

Best
Dominik


----------



## joseG86

domiji said:


> Thank you very much
> 
> Do you may can post your EQ settings for the Arya with the SA-1? That would be aweseome
> 
> ...


Of course! I have many but I prefer this so far, I can send you all of them in private if you want. I'd recommend high gain for this profile, try bass songs ;D


----------



## Jay_vs

New knob feels much better in the hand


----------



## Lolito

Capunk said:


> Alright, just a slighty OOT (sorry OP) X16 was an upgrade from my previous DAC, Topping D70 (AKM4497EQ).
> With Topping A90 + X16 my setup is becoming an "uber" bright sounding setup especially paired with HD800 (SDR),
> although those details and resolutions are really shining with the previous setup, Ares II was my first entry to R-2R and the real key difference is in the technicalities.
> It can be detailed enough to my liking but somewhat some of the songs in my playlist has a certain distinct "distortion" as if the DAC wasn't fully rendered the music?
> this only applies to certain music (especially with complex math rock / instrumentals), but I can see the analog appeal out this DAC, with NOS mode on, the sound is widened a bit compared to OS mode, yet i can identify the location of instruments within the track. This kinda worries me a bit if I gone sell my A90 and get a Class A amp someday, cause the warmness of this DAC might suited best with the neutral or analytical amp.


If you can use A90+DS dac + Senn HD800, and your ears do not even bleed yet, maybe, other components more "analog" sounding might be very imprecise, or lacking something or... no? I would certainly like to try one of those clinical setups, but then just swap just the dac for R2r ad test, or swap just the amp for a class A and test, or change ust the headphones and test... will depend on each person's ears and music, but interesting to try it all out non the less.


----------



## nekky

Jay_vs said:


> New knob feels much better in the hand


Can you link to that exact knob please?


----------



## Jay_vs

Sure here here you go. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B089D4H55W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## pankar0

Jay_vs said:


> Sure here here you go. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B089D4H55W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


A similar here..
In 35mm and the same seller has and 38mm
€ 7,43  4%OFF | HIFI audio amp Aluminum Volume knob 1pcs Diameter 35mm Height 22mm amplifier Potentiometer knob https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrHdZL3

And another one with more height 30mm

€ 7,65  35%OFF | KYYSLB 26*30 30*30 34*30 40*30MM Volume Potentiometer Knob CD Amplifier Chassis Switch Instrument All Aluminum Solid Knob https://a.aliexpress.com/_mszWlnj


----------



## Capunk (Apr 27, 2021)

Lolito said:


> If you can use A90+DS dac + Senn HD800, and your ears do not even bleed yet, maybe, other components more "analog" sounding might be very imprecise, or lacking something or... no? I would certainly like to try one of those clinical setups, but then just swap just the dac for R2r ad test, or swap just the amp for a class A and test, or change ust the headphones and test... will depend on each person's ears and music, but interesting to try it all out non the less.


I still got my cayin n6ii with E02 module (ESS9038Q2M), in some occasion i swapped the balanced input to cayin just to AB test between
R-2R and Delta Sigma, turns out i still prefer delta sigma sound for most of my playlist but i still can’t shake those goosebump moment like someone whispering from my back when i first tested ares ii.  So i’m grateful i can enjoy both worlds right now.


----------



## godmax (Apr 27, 2021)

...seems everyone is busy uglifying...err...knobifying his/her SA-1

@domiji did you have any other DAC before the Singxer SDA-6 Pro you can compare to? I am still on the fence if the SDA-6 would be an option for me.


----------



## Jay_vs

godmax said:


> ...seems everyone is busy uglifying...err...knobifying his/her SA-1
> 
> @domiji did you have any other DAC before the Singxer SDA-6 Pro you can compare to? I am still on the fence if the SDA-6 would be an option for me.


uglifying? Ok each to their own I guess.


----------



## Fly2High

Just leave them playing with their knob.

each to their own


----------



## Lolito

Anybody already did the jumpers thing? I already ordered balanced cables for both speakers and headphones. As a pre-amp for studio monitors, RCA output, sounds gorgeous. Sharp DS dac with neutral studio monitors welcomed class A hifi warmth, nuanced. Bass is now more lush or blossoming, in the 100-200Hz area.

Included knob very nice looking, but not practical to use, ordered one from ali, will post photos once arrived.


----------



## joseG86

Lolito said:


> Anybody already did the jumpers thing? I already ordered balanced cables for both speakers and headphones. As a pre-amp for studio monitors, RCA output, sounds gorgeous. Sharp DS dac with neutral studio monitors welcomed class A hifi warmth, nuanced. Bass is now more lush or blossoming, in the 100-200Hz area.
> 
> Included knob very nice looking, but not practical to use, ordered one from ali, will post photos once arrived.


Really interested in the first brave to try DC mode


----------



## Jay_vs

I'd try it if I knew where to get the jumpers from and how to open the unit. I can't figure it out. But I'm not very bright.


----------



## nekky

Jay_vs said:


> I'd try it if I knew where to get the jumpers from and how to open the unit. I can't figure it out. But I'm not very bright.


We should start a club


----------



## joseG86 (Apr 27, 2021)

Jay_vs said:


> I'd try it if I knew where to get the jumpers from and how to open the unit. I can't figure it out. But I'm not very bright.






Anyone with an old computer at home probably has jumpers inside the case attached to the motherboard, you can easily get them at any computer repair store or amazon "jumper pc"

SA-1 is beautiful inside


----------



## Jay_vs

Certainly looks well put together. Wish someone would do a video guide on how to do it. Only seen a couple of people say they've done it and it's a really big upgrade. A must. But people say a lot of things on the internet.


----------



## Lolito

Peoplel say lot of things online indeed, maybe we could dig a bit into what is the deal about that whole DC thing, how does it works, why is it supposed to sound better, if it affects just headphones or also pre amped outputs, etc... all the small fine print of the contract, not to have surprises later, but we are gonna mod this thing to the max, that is for sure.

I noticed that the LED is at least double colour, red sometimes when it is not warm yet, turns to blue afterwards. A white led mod wouldbe great, I wonder if a firmware mod could do that. I have chip programmer here if necessary, to edit the firmware chip, all 8 legs chips.


----------



## Pharmaboy

kdub said:


> very tempted to try a R2R dac to hear what all the fuss is about too. Please report your results vs best delta sigma dac you have heard as a comparison. The Ares II or Pontus II got me very interested if it is need fuller body, more airy, natural and more organic sounding, wider sound stage as they say.



When I heard my first non-delta/sigma DAC (Audio GD NOS 19), everything changed--hard to imagine going back to delta-sigma after that. Then came the DAC-19, a multibit (listening to it right now) & another NOS DAC, the MHDT Labs Orchid. Their sound isn't identical, but they share certain qualities vs delta/sigma:

Differences aren't just tonal, though these DACs are definitely less bright & edgy 
They render note bodies more realistically & dimensionally. Notes sound pretty much like real notes, not cardboard cutouts of notes. 
The tone is less "dry" & the treble less shimmery/glittery; the bass goes just as deep, but notes are more rounded & real-sounding. The timbre of each instrument is easier to distinguish.
The word "organic" pretty much covers it. When I hear these DACs, I can stop thinking about "digital" and just think "music."


----------



## Random Lunatic

Is the SA-1 quiet enough to use with IEMs? I know at least the A90 is known to be - don’t know about the THX amps...


----------



## Chamade (Apr 28, 2021)

I just got the SA-1 and currently pairing it with the iFi Micro BL through RCA to drive the Arya (connected to 4.4mm balanced).

I must say I am surprised that the volume pot is at ~80–90% for the Arya to get loud. SA-1 is set at low Z and high gain.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

Chamade said:


> I just got the SA-1 and currently pairing it with the iFi Micro BL through RCA to drive the Arya (connected to 4.4mm balanced).
> 
> I must say I am surprised that the volume pot is at ~80–90% for the Arya to get loud. SA-1 is set at low Z and high gain.


You're not alone. I'm close to maxing out the volume with my headphones as well.

I never really *need* to go all the way to 100% but was wondering if anyone else was listening at the same position.


----------



## Chamade (Apr 28, 2021)

Relaxasaurus said:


> You're not alone. I'm close to maxing out the volume with my headphones as well.
> 
> I never really *need* to go all the way to 100% but was wondering if anyone else was listening at the same position.



This makes no sense to me. My Micro BL is louder, yet the SA-1 is supposed be almost 7W at 32Ohm balanced vs. 5W for the Micro BL.

Initially I was thinking it was the 2V RCA connection between the amp and dac, but someone in this thread mentioned that the SA-1 has the same volume whether RCA or XLR inputs are used. Hmm.


----------



## Jay_vs

Chamade said:


> This makes no sense to me. My Micro BL is louder, yet the SA-1 is supposed be almost 7W at 32Ohm balanced vs. 5W for the Micro BL.
> 
> Initially I was thinking it was the 2V SE RCA connection between the amp and dac, but someone in this thread mentioned that the SA-1 has the same volume whether RCA or XLR inputs are used. Hmm.


When I was testing between two Dacs, one rca the other xlr, the volume on xlr was definitely louder.


----------



## domiji (Apr 28, 2021)

I think the volume settings are just as the developer intended it.

I know some very good high end devices that uses the same technique to nearly "remove" the impact of the volume pot in the signal-chain. Thats probably why i gets really useful after 12 o'clock  

Actually i am a little aware of the DC mod because i damage a speaker with DC in the past and i don't wanted to damage my headphones 
The guys from AST said that there should normally be no difference with the mod.


----------



## nekky

Relaxasaurus said:


> You're not alone. I'm close to maxing out the volume with my headphones as well.
> 
> I never really *need* to go all the way to 100% but was wondering if anyone else was listening at the same position.


Love your videos pare!!

On my Aeon Open X, I can get close to maxing out too, but it’s a strange feeling. The music is plenty loud by noon, but turning it up does not produce anything harsh, just straight up more air and more oomph. I have remarked, like some others, that after burn in, the amp gets louder. I have left mine on together with X26pro for a week, and both it and the X26 get toasty!! I’ll get my thermometer next time but for sure they were about 40*C if I had to guess. Both get very warm, I am not mincing words. When they’re warm like that, don’t need to max volume at all, and compared to my Elegias, which only require 9-11 o’clock volume. Both low-Z and high gain.


----------



## Fly2High (Apr 28, 2021)

For the life of me, I cannot find where I saw it but I thought the SA-1 had some weird gain values that were based on input.

When you are SE In, to SE out it was like 0 and 11 dB.
SE In XLR out I think had higher gains on both??  I forget
XLR In and SE out was like -18 and -8  .  I cannot find the real numbers but they were both smaller like they were attenuating the higher Bal Input.
XLR in XLR out same as SE: SE I think.
See later post for proper values. (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-16323792)

I do not see it in the pamphlet nor any of the websites.  I could be mixing this up with something else but based on how it seems to work, it might be attempting to keep the volume constant for a selected gain setting regardless of input or output.

Am I off base?


----------



## nekky

Fly2High said:


> For the life of me, I cannot find where I saw it but I thought the SA-1 had some weird gain values that were based on input.
> 
> When you are SE In, to SE out it was like 0 and 11 dB.
> SE In XLR out I think had higher gains on both??  I forget
> ...


I don’t think you’re off base completely but I can’t verify and I don’t remember where I saw that or heard something to that effect.

To be honest I just don’t eff around and run balanced everything. I could see myself preamping SE out to a nice tube amp some day, but otherwise I don’t know why anyone would run SE into this amp unless they were using an older DAC maybe?


----------



## Chamade

I must say this thing strikes a wonderful balance...lots of detail and sparkle, but not the feeling of broken glass in your ears.
Not sure how much of that is my iFi DAC...


----------



## J Mirra

I found this on audiosciencereview and I copied two different posts to a text file for reference, so these are not my figures.

SA-1 headphone amplifier gains:
1. Single-ended input, single-ended output: low gain is 0db, high gain is 11db;
2. Single-ended input, balanced output: low gain is 6db, high gain is 17db;
3. Balanced input, single-ended output: low gain is -6db, high gain is 5db;
4. Balanced input, balanced output: low gain is 0db, high gain is 11db;

The following is the maximum input without distortion at the maximum volume. no load：

low gain: XLR 15.5VRMS,RCA 7.4V RMS;
high gain : XLR 4.4VRMS,RCA 2.1VRMS.

When there is a load, it is about 10% lower.


----------



## Chamade

J Mirra said:


> I found this on audiosciencereview and I copied two different posts to a text file for reference, so these are not my figures.
> 
> SA-1 headphone amplifier gains:
> 1. Single-ended input, single-ended output: low gain is 0db, high gain is 11db;
> ...



Thanks for the info, can you clarify something for me.

I am using SE input (the iFi DAC outputs 2V over RCA) with balanced output so according to this I am already achieving the highest volume possible in high gain.

Would I actually loose volume by using XLR input or would I gain volume since the input voltage is higher with XLR?


----------



## Fly2High (Apr 28, 2021)

Chamade said:


> Thanks for the info, can you clarify something for me.
> 
> I am using SE input (the iFi DAC outputs 2V over RCA) with balanced output so according to this I am already achieving the highest volume possible in high gain.
> 
> Would I actually loose volume by using XLR input or would I gain volume since the input voltage is higher with XLR?


I have my Gustard X16 connected by XLR and SE to the SA-1 which is connected to a set of powered Edifier speakers as well as a SE connected HP.  I change the input all the time but see no change in volume on either output.  Now, I would expect changing between HP Bal output vs HP SE will change volume.

Now, I have WBC Mogami cables for XLR and WBC Gotham for SE and do hear on certain songs a slight reduction in the treble which seems to make the bass more punchy in the Gotham.  The Mogami seem brighter and more balanced.  I am new to all this and hearing this slight change surprised me. 

I think they worked to keep the volume constant for a given output regardless of which input is used.


----------



## Lolito

I´ve spent the last 20 minutes like an idiot, trying to find what was happening on my system, there was a huge channel in-balance, huge. and way more bass on the R channel. Had to put one speaker at 7 and the other at 3 to be balanced... I thought I had effed a speaker... swapped cables, and problem swapped too, so not the speakers!!!!, good. I thought the subwoofer had a ****ed up channel in the crossover to satellites... what a pity, 5 months old sub... tried with headphones, same problem!!!! so not the sub... oh god, I got a efff-ed SA-1, I thought... unless the gain is switched one side only, or a side of a side or... fricking jesus christ, that was it. maybe it was from the factory like that or I switched one accidentally...

What did we learned today???? the gain works on pre-amped outputs too. and it has 4 channels, 2 per side...


----------



## Lolito

J Mirra said:


> I found this on audiosciencereview and I copied two different posts to a text file for reference, so these are not my figures.
> 
> SA-1 headphone amplifier gains:
> 1. Single-ended input, single-ended output: low gain is 0db, high gain is 11db;
> ...



Would be great to know how does number are at the preamped outputs behind, RCA and XLR.


----------



## Lolito

Fly2High said:


> I have my Gustard X16 connected by XLR and SE to the SA-1 which is connected to a set of powered Edifier speakers as well as a SE connected HP.  I change the input all the time but see no change in volume on either output.  Now, I would expect changing between HP Bal output vs HP SE will change volume.
> 
> Now, I have WBC Mogami cables for XLR and WBC Gotham for SE and do hear on certain songs a slight reduction in the treble which seems to make the bass more punchy in the Gotham.  The Mogami seem brighter and more balanced.  I am new to all this and hearing this slight change surprised me.
> 
> I think they worked to keep the volume constant for a given output regardless of which input is used.


I do know that different inputs SE or XLR, will have exact same gain level, exact, because the SE is turned into balanced right at the entrance. So different inputs will have same volume. Now, for a given headphones, if you are running a SE cable, and you swap to a balanced cable, I do not know if volume will be higher or not, didn't test it yet. It should go louder, I hope it does, because in low gain, savs my ears, but sometimes I want that last extra bit, so gonna turn into balanced cables to get that extra, still in low gain.

I do know that gain affects not just headphone output but also preamp outputs, at least RCA outputs, for sure.


----------



## TitaniumDust

Hey guys, last update as I tend to stay away from head-fi once I am completely happy with my chain, so that I am not tempted to spend more money!  I'm sure some of you can relate, LOL!  SA-1 = awesome.  It will be staying in my hands for quite some time.  Attached are a couple of pics to get you through the day.  Sorry for the fish eye effect as my only camera is my phone. I put some white vinyl on the cabinet so I could place things on top without scratching the amp.  I also put a new knob on which I got on Amazon and it is much easier to grip now.  Peace, y'all!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TZSMPC6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Jay_vs

That looks great


----------



## joseG86

TitaniumDust said:


> Hey guys, last update as I tend to stay away from head-fi once I am completely happy with my chain, so that I am not tempted to spend more money!  I'm sure some of you can relate, LOL!  SA-1 = awesome.  It will be staying in my hands for quite some time.  Attached are a couple of pics to get you through the day.  Sorry for the fish eye effect as my only camera is my phone. I put some white vinyl on the cabinet so I could place things on top without scratching the amp.  I also put a new knob on which I got on Amazon and it is much easier to grip now.  Peace, y'all!
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TZSMPC6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Beautiful, I don't believe you won't spend more money, we all say that hahah



Jay_vs said:


> That looks great


Did you receive your AresII?


----------



## Jay_vs

Not yet. Probably not until next week now.


----------



## Lolito

TitaniumDust said:


> Hey guys, last update as I tend to stay away from head-fi once I am completely happy with my chain, so that I am not tempted to spend more money!  I'm sure some of you can relate, LOL!  SA-1 = awesome.  It will be staying in my hands for quite some time.  Attached are a couple of pics to get you through the day.  Sorry for the fish eye effect as my only camera is my phone. I put some white vinyl on the cabinet so I could place things on top without scratching the amp.  I also put a new knob on which I got on Amazon and it is much easier to grip now.  Peace, y'all!
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TZSMPC6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


beautiful!!!!!


----------



## 19844

Hifiman hek2 + HeadAmp GS-X Mini + Topping D90 and Hifiman hek2 Singxer SA1 + Gustard x26pro I more prefer Singxer SA1 + Gustard x26pro it has more body in midrange and more punchy  that suite me well with Hifiman hek2


----------



## Kafé

19844 said:


> Hifiman hek2 + HeadAmp GS-X Mini + Topping D90 and Hifiman hek2 Singxer SA1 + Gustard x26pro I more prefer Singxer SA1 + Gustard x26pro it has more body in midrange and more punchy  that suite me well with Hifiman hek2




Can you tell us a little more about Soundstage & Depth as well as bass and treble?
Thank's


----------



## 19844

Kafé said:


> Can you tell us a little more about Soundstage & Depth as well as bass and treble?
> Thank's


width & depth I think mini is a bit better. Mini is also has more detail. SA-1 has more full body and a little more bass and punchy. Overall I prefer because Hifiman hek2 quite bright to my ears and already detail headphone.


----------



## joseG86

Chibs said:


> I just sold my RME Adi 2 dac and am left with X-16.
> Using funds to buy Meze Empyrean. Hope I did the right thing. Just boxed it up and already missing that beautiful screen with it's spectral analyzer!


Besides the ability of limited EQ and some more tools I think X-16 is better


----------



## ra990

Just got this in today finally! Almost gave up on it ever arriving. Solid build and the volume control is nice and stiff, the way I like it. It has all ins and outs I'll ever need. Will post on sound impressions later. It's integrated into a listening station with multiple sources and I'm planning to use it mostly for production to amplify the output of my RME babyface pro and also serve as a preamp to my JBL monitors. Certainly seems like this will be up for the task.


----------



## joseG86

ra990 said:


> Just got this in today finally! Almost gave up on it ever arriving. Solid build and the volume control is nice and stiff, the way I like it. It has all ins and outs I'll ever need. Will post on sound impressions later. It's integrated into a listening station with multiple sources and I'm planning to use it mostly for production to amplify the output of my RME babyface pro and also serve as a preamp to my JBL monitors. Certainly seems like this will be up for the task.


Damn, Susvara and 1266. Awaiting on your impressions and... can it move Susvara?


----------



## Middy (Apr 30, 2021)

Hey all,  Not as much information as I'd like around but you guys convinced me to pull the trigger to try as a new main setup.  Just the month waiting times....
I've still not seen much information about the jumper mod. My cheap multimeter may not be sensitive to measure DC but can't see a Chord Qutest being an issue.
Jumper caps come in 2.0mm and 2.54mm sizes. ?
Does anyone know what the fuse is on the power inlet?  That can change the sig to play with if inclined.

Currently I'm running a Dan Clarke Ether 2> Gilmore lite MK 2 + custom Power supply > Qutest > Nord easy-stream.. + PSUs, conditioners  ifi decrapifiers ect.

Can't wait for more insights and will pass on my basic impressions as soon as possible.

Good luck

Dave 👍😷👍


----------



## saadi703

ra990 said:


> Just got this in today finally! Almost gave up on it ever arriving. Solid build and the volume control is nice and stiff, the way I like it. It has all ins and outs I'll ever need. Will post on sound impressions later. It's integrated into a listening station with multiple sources and I'm planning to use it mostly for production to amplify the output of my RME babyface pro and also serve as a preamp to my JBL monitors. Certainly seems like this will be up for the task.


Nice setup. I would be really interested to know that if the Singxer can drive the Susvara? I myself have Susvara and looking for a Susvara owner who has this amp and give his impressions. Really interested. Thanks.


----------



## ra990

To all those wondering about the Susvara with this amp, let me ease your concerns. YES the amp can handle the Susvara without any problems. I'm using my TT2 SE into the RCA in of the amp. Volume on the amp is turned up all the way, so I'm essentially bypassing it's volume control and using it as a power amp. I'm controlling the volume from the TT2 and it's getting plenty loud while I'm not even close to the standard DAC output level of the TT2. I'm a good 12db below that, which leaves plenty of headroom. 

It's easy to tell when the Susvara isn't being driven properly, it sounds dead and very light on bass - that's not what I'm hearing at all here. The Susvara is energetic with juicy bass. 

I'm sure the amp will get even better with break-in. The preamp outs to my monitors sound great as well. At this price, this amp is a winner and an easy recommendation.


----------



## saadi703

ra990 said:


> To all those wondering about the Susvara with this amp, let me ease your concerns. YES the amp can handle the Susvara without any problems. I'm using my TT2 SE into the RCA in of the amp. Volume on the amp is turned up all the way, so I'm essentially bypassing it's volume control and using it as a power amp. I'm controlling the volume from the TT2 and it's getting plenty loud while I'm not even close to the standard DAC output level of the TT2. I'm a good 12db below that, which leaves plenty of headroom.
> 
> It's easy to tell when the Susvara isn't being driven properly, it sounds dead and very light on bass - that's not what I'm hearing at all here. The Susvara is energetic with juicy bass.
> 
> I'm sure the amp will get even better with break-in. The preamp outs to my monitors sound great as well. At this price, this amp is a winner and an easy recommendation.


Thanks for confirming that this can drive Susvara, how is the sound with Sa-1 + Susvara as compared to your other amps.


----------



## Lolito

ra990 said:


> Just got this in today finally! Almost gave up on it ever arriving. Solid build and the volume control is nice and stiff, the way I like it. It has all ins and outs I'll ever need. Will post on sound impressions later. It's integrated into a listening station with multiple sources and I'm planning to use it mostly for production to amplify the output of my RME babyface pro and also serve as a preamp to my JBL monitors. Certainly seems like this will be up for the task.


Such a beautiful setup. I just love Chord interface and colors, it's so beautiful and different and interesting and... Lot of people hate it, which makes them even better IMHO.

Like touching coloured stones with lights inside... OOOHHHHHHHH!!!!


----------



## ra990

saadi703 said:


> Thanks for confirming that this can drive Susvara, how is the sound with Sa-1 + Susvara as compared to your other amps.


It's pretty similar to the power output of the TT2 balanced. I think the Etude is in another class so it's not a fair comparison. I just switched to the Etude after a few hours with the Singxer and the first thing I'm noticing is the kick drum has more impact and the Etude is moving the Susvara with greater ease. The Singxer was doing fine for a headphone amp but it can't fairly compete with a 100watt speaker amp when driving the Susvara.


----------



## domiji

Middy said:


> Hey all,  Not as much information as I'd like around but you guys convinced me to pull the trigger to try as a new main setup.  Just the month waiting times....
> I've still not seen much information about the jumper mod. My cheap multimeter may not be sensitive to measure DC but can't see a Chord Qutest being an issue.
> Jumper caps come in 2.0mm and 2.54mm sizes. ?
> Does anyone know what the fuse is on the power inlet?  That can change the sig to play with if inclined.
> ...


Did you do the DC mod? I still have my jumpers here  

I changed the fuse to a Hifituning Supreme 3 and the Sound is awesome 👍🏻


----------



## pankar0

domiji said:


> Did you do the DC mod? I still have my jumpers here
> 
> I changed the fuse to a Hifituning Supreme 3 and the Sound is awesome 👍🏻


Can you post the link for the fuse...


----------



## domiji

It is the T2A Version in my case

https://www.sieveking-sound.de/zubehoer/hifi-tuning.html

I have very good experience with this fuses and put it in nearly every Component...


----------



## Middy

https://www.sieveking-sound.de/zubehoer/hifi-tuning.html

Sorry... Singxer Sa-1 is it the 5x20mm size? T2A just making sure😁 

Hmm.. not sure what the UK rating will be for 240v+ or would be the same 2.5A maybe.? I hear people up the rating slightly for custom fuses.. Synergistic research sell the Blacks for £59 so could be classed as reasonable in our hobby...☹😳🤔
I hate the fact that they do change the sound... my EE friends think i am insane but one of the easiest differences to hear when burned in.. Synergistic anyway....

Thank you @domiji 👍


----------



## domiji

I live in germany and i use the 5*20mm (250v) with T2A without any problems 

Okay guys i've made the DC mod this morning. The device is now playing flawless and smoothly. I tested it short with my Aryas and now let the Singxer play for a few hours with a pair of cheap IEMs. Just to be safe that nothing happens


----------



## domiji

Voxata said:


> Alright so, this puts the amp into DC couple mode. You have to ensure your dac/pre don't leak DC. Using a meter I measured my Freya S, flat 0 powered on with no music playing. Safe.


 Can you may please describe how to measure the DC output of the DAC? 

Thank you very much


----------



## Lolito

domiji said:


> The device is now playing flawless and smoothly.


It wasn't like that before the jumpers mod?


----------



## joseG86

domiji said:


> I live in germany and i use the 5*20mm (250v) with T2A without any problems
> 
> Okay guys i've made the DC mod this morning. The device is now playing flawless and smoothly. I tested it short with my Aryas and now let the Singxer play for a few hours with a pair of cheap IEMs. Just to be safe that nothing happens


Please give us a more detailed insight 

Danke !


----------



## domiji

Lolito said:


> It wasn't like that before the jumpers mod?


It works also flawless before the mod  but i want to be sure that it works flawless with the mod and i dont damage my Aryas because of leaking dc 😅



joseG86 said:


> Please give us a more detailed insight
> 
> Danke !


It is definately a hugh improvemend. It sounds more open, punchier with more dynamics and relaxed at the same time. 

It sounds a bit like releasing a handbrake 😅


----------



## Middy

Its what people have wanted to know and a good idea to try an old pair of headphones.  Ordered the jumpers and a 2a synergistic fuse for when it arrives. I better dig out the deoxit gold while i am at it..

Thank you @domiji


----------



## nekky

Middy said:


> Its what people have wanted to know and a good idea to try an old pair of headphones.  Ordered the jumpers and a 2a synergistic fuse for when it arrives. I better dig out the deoxit gold while i am at it..
> 
> Thank you @domiji


Is there anywhere I can read in depth about the jumper mod and the potential consequences?


----------



## Chamade

I am in heaven with the SA-1 and Arya. Currently using the Micro iDSD Black Label as DAC and the sound is so lush yet detailed with a huge soundstage.

I am thinking about getting an AC power battery bank so I can make this setup “transportable”…the Micro BL and Honey H1 just aren’t cutting it anymore for amp duties…


----------



## Lolito (May 1, 2021)

Mine 5 days all day on now. I´m really happy with the purchase, today I swapped from RCA to the subwoofer to XLR, so much better connections, and more gain for the sub.
As a preamp to my 2 channel system, it does sounds lush, but more than lush I would say thumby on the bass, compared to jds atom. Lush and thumby and dynamic. Also fast and detailed but never piercing or sibilant. I keep it with zero EQ from dac to speakers of how great it just sounds. Speakers have little eq built in due to room acoustics though. Analog eq. Class A really is worth it. Probably not the fastest, or crystal surgical clean, not totally black background at all, maybe not the very most detailed ever, but detailed non the less, if you feed it proper hi res stuff, it is detailed. Not flat presentation, it has depth and soundstage, more soundstage than a jds labs atom.

Really solid build, like expensive hifi gear. The knob very nice looking, but not good at all, it needs molted surface and a deeper knob, that can be swapped easily. Single ended in and single ended out to headphones, still doesnt sound sperfect I think. Waiting for a balanced cable to test it that way. It gets quite warm, not hot. The pot used as preamp, goes very loud from 4 to 6 o´clock, from 5 to 6 gets a big jump up.

The impedance switch, I notice nothing with that switch, nothing. And then the gain at the button, and with 4 separated switches, that is really quite crappy to be honest. For people who switch that a lot or have a big collection... not nice.

I love class A, exactly what I was looking for. Maybe some people still might prefer Jot2 from Schiit, similar offering, even cheaper, with US warranty of 5 years... worse built, no 4.4 connector, but lower price and knob looks good. GSX or burson for who ever wants a digital ladder pot or color anodized or a display or... remote or... Shame the upper lid can not be swapped for a transparent panel to see the inside.


----------



## Middy

nekky said:


> Is there anywhere I can read in depth about the jumper mod and the potential consequences?


Not that i can find anyway, i first heard from the Zeos Review. Not a lot of information even for checking DC offset from a DAC. The jumpers cost cents, it seem old Dacs custom or tube may have issues. I suppose we need the more knowledgeable  to intervene.. and educated us..

Our friend above trying is the first conformation  i have heard..

Nice to get a free upgrade if it works,  i dont think my Qutest will be an issue... but right to find out before...


----------



## joseG86

Lolito said:


> Mine 5 days all day on now. I´m really happy with the purchase, today I swapped from RCA to the subwoofer to XLR, so much better connections, and more gain for the sub.
> As a preamp to my 2 channel system, it does sounds lush, but more than lush I would say thumby on the bass, compared to jds atom. Luss and thumby and dynamic. Also fast and detailed but never piercing or sibilant. I keep it with zero EQ from dac to speakers of how great it just sounds. Speakers have little eq built in due to room acoustics though. Analog eq. Class A really is worth it. Probably not the fastest, or crystal surgical clean, not totally black background at all, maybe not the very most detailed ever, but detailed non the less, if you feed it proper hi res stuff, it is detailed. Not flat presentation, it has depth and soundstage, more soundstage than a jds labs atom.
> 
> Really solid build, like expensive hifi gear. The knob very nice looking, but not good at all, it needs molted surface and a deeper knob, that can be swapped easily. Single ended in and single ended out to headphones, still doesnt sound sperfect I think. Waiting for a balanced cable to test it that way. It gets quite warm, not hot. The pot used as preamp, goes very loud from 4 to 6 o´clock, from 5 to 6 gets a big jump up.
> ...


That was an amazing insight and almost a review, focusing on preamp which is unusual. I find Jot 2 equally good to SA-1, only thing to consider is Jot 2 has more juice and SE connection gives you a relaxed / laid back sound.

Looks like Singxer is no joke at developing quality and cheap stuff, I'd like somebody with SA-1 and Burson 3XP to give some details and A/B comparatives, at this point I think you couldn't notice any difference and we're talking double the price.

Cheers


----------



## Lolito

joseG86 said:


> That was an amazing insight and almost a review, focusing on preamp which is unusual. I find Jot 2 equally good to SA-1, only thing to consider is Jot 2 has more juice and SE connection gives you a relaxed / laid back sound.
> 
> Looks like Singxer is no joke at developing quality and cheap stuff, I'd like somebody with SA-1 and Burson 3XP to give some details and A/B comparatives, at this point I think you couldn't notice any difference and we're talking double the price.
> 
> Cheers


Yes, didn't used it with many headphones yet, only hd6xx, which sounds great once highs are lowered and lows are highered, LOL. It really is a thumby and punchy bass, in a headphones with no bass... you loose the highs details though with such EQ. You get no bass from hd6XX without the eq. It's a great amp, but no magic there of course.

Just forgot to mention, it totally removes the edge of delta sigma dacs, so I think it can pair well with any decent cheap DAC. I guess it will sound even better with an organic DAC, but since it removes those edges, already great, and from rca in. Waiting for the knob and new cable, long long way to arrive from far far East!!!!!


----------



## ra990

What's surprising about this amp is it sounds warm and organic, not at all clinical, and it does so while measuring really well apparently. I don't care much about measurements, more about how it sounds to me, but I appreciate a well engineered product. Topping and SMSL will need to step up their game!

I'm tempted to try the jumpers, I have a few I can pull off really old PC components I have lying around. Not sure if it's worth it, but something to play with later on.


----------



## Lolito

ra990 said:


> What's surprising about this amp is it sounds warm and organic, not at all clinical, and it does so while measuring really well apparently. I don't care much about measurements, more about how it sounds to me, but I appreciate a well engineered product. Topping and SMSL will need to step up their game!
> 
> I'm tempted to try the jumpers, I have a few I can pull off really old PC components I have lying around. Not sure if it's worth it, but something to play with later on.


There are so many things that can not be measured yet, and still are clearly there. Topping and SMSL have been playing the measurements and features and price game, but then that only takes you so far sound wise, but also less warranty, more failure due to lower quality parts, cheap tiny pots, only DS dacs with uber clinical sound. Or a bit weird aesthetics, or blue displays like SMSL... Other companies like Schiit for example looked way forward, looked for pleasurable sound, multibit organic dacs, and 5 years warranty. this amp or a jot2 amp, will play well with an RME or Ares2 or bifrost 2 multibit I guess, or any good ds dac like gustard or whatever suits your boat.


----------



## nekky

Lolito said:


> There are so many things that can not be measured yet, and still are clearly there. Topping and SMSL have been playing the measurements and features and price game, but then that only takes you so far sound wise, but also less warranty, more failure due to lower quality parts, cheap tiny pots, only DS dacs with uber clinical sound. Or a bit weird aesthetics, or blue displays like SMSL... Other companies like Schiit for example looked way forward, looked for pleasurable sound, multibit organic dacs, and 5 years warranty. this amp or a jot2 amp, will play well with an RME or Ares2 or bifrost 2 multibit I guess, or any good ds dac like gustard or whatever suits your boat.


Options, options, options.


----------



## saadi703

ra990 said:


> To all those wondering about the Susvara with this amp, let me ease your concerns. YES the amp can handle the Susvara without any problems. I'm using my TT2 SE into the RCA in of the amp. Volume on the amp is turned up all the way, so I'm essentially bypassing it's volume control and using it as a power amp. I'm controlling the volume from the TT2 and it's getting plenty loud while I'm not even close to the standard DAC output level of the TT2. I'm a good 12db below that, which leaves plenty of headroom.
> 
> It's easy to tell when the Susvara isn't being driven properly, it sounds dead and very light on bass - that's not what I'm hearing at all here. The Susvara is energetic with juicy bass.
> 
> I'm sure the amp will get even better with break-in. The preamp outs to my monitors sound great as well. At this price, this amp is a winner and an easy recommendation.


Thanks for this detail impression. What about the headroom on volume pot while adequately driving Susvara to 77-80db?


----------



## Jay_vs (May 1, 2021)

Can I ask, what are you all doing in regard to powering the amp off? Are you leaving it on all the time? The switch on the front which say's HPA/PRE/OFF. Is it actually turning it off? Or do you use the switch on the back?


----------



## ra990

saadi703 said:


> Thanks for this detail impression. What about the headroom on volume pot while adequately driving Susvara to 77-80db?


You might need to push the volume way up but it has enough headroom for the Susvara. It seems to get really loud near the end of the volume, so don't be afraid to set it as high as you need. You're just lowering the attenuation on the signal before it enters the amplification stage. I use it turned all the way up and then control volume digitally with the TT2, and like I stated before, I rarely get close to the standard DAC output level, I'm about 12db lower.


----------



## Random Lunatic

Has this been compared by anyone to the Liquid Gold or Platinum by chance?


----------



## ra990

Random Lunatic said:


> Has this been compared by anyone to the Liquid Gold or Platinum by chance?


I have and I would go with the SA1 from what I'm hearing out of it. Maybe the Platinum because you can change flavors of the input stage with tubes, but the Liquid Gold X was a severe disappointment and just didn't work properly for me. That DAC on it is pretty useless as well.


----------



## domiji

Here are some Informations on the DC mod 

http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-741745-1-1.html

https://kktl2ren3hfqrjgpnr4uxujfiy-...m.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2212956&extra=page=1


----------



## godmax

Jay_vs said:


> Can I ask, what are you all doing in regard to powering the amp off? Are you leaving it on all the time? The switch on the front which say's HPA/PRE/OFF. Is it actually turning it off? Or do you use the switch on the back?


I use a individual switchable power strip since I can not reach the switch on the back easily in my rack. So I do turn it off when not used (for power saving and to extend the life of the built-in components), since the switch on the front does not actually turn-off the unit and stays very warm.


----------



## Middy

@domiji
Great Googling 👍😁 i wonder if other languages  seem just not quite right for our Chinese friends when they translate in google.... We all moan and worry about the same issues..... Fuse arguments, power conditioners MODS🤔... Even direct soldering the cap pins lol.  Component replacement Mod potential is interesting for those with the technical ability but always about changing the flavour of the sound.

I have to wait and see.. if i feel its better than what i have and i enjoy it with my modest chain... i have invested a lot in power improvements so hopefully i can get the most out of the SA1. 

What i really wanted was the Sparkos Labs Aries but if wishes were fishes....

 So easy to do mod but no guide yet for taking the lid off.  A fuse swap may be pleasing to the tonality... 

Stay safe all 😷
Dave🙂


----------



## domiji

Middy said:


> So easy to do mod but no guide yet for taking the lid of



Its just 6 long screws at the bottom of the device


----------



## domiji

I have measured the "incoming" DC at the headphone cable and in my case it is the same with or without the jumpers (dc coupling). 

So at least in my case it is safe. It is also fairly easy to measure the incoming DC from a DAC with a simple multimeter :

https://www.wikihow.com/Measure-DC-Offset


----------



## joseG86

Proud silver metal knob SA-1 in da house


----------



## nekky

joseG86 said:


> Proud silver metal knob SA-1 in da house


Beauty! Is the same style available in black with a volume indicator?


----------



## joseG86

nekky said:


> Beauty! Is the same style available in black with a volume indicator?


Yeah! KNOB-06-30BK is the reference for that one


----------



## nekky

joseG86 said:


> Yeah! KNOB-06-30BK is the reference for that one


Thank you hombre!


----------



## Random Lunatic

ra990 said:


> I have and I would go with the SA1 from what I'm hearing out of it. Maybe the Platinum because you can change flavors of the input stage with tubes, but the Liquid Gold X was a severe disappointment and just didn't work properly for me. That DAC on it is pretty useless as well.


What made you prefer the SA-1?  The reason I’m considering the Cavalli is that I remember hearing the originals (liquid Crimson and Glass) and they added some much needed note-weight and low end heft to my HD800 and other headphones... so I’m looking for something that can do the same - since the original Cavalli amps are incredibly rare...


----------



## ra990

Random Lunatic said:


> What made you prefer the SA-1?  The reason I’m considering the Cavalli is that I remember hearing the originals (liquid Crimson and Glass) and they added some much needed note-weight and low end heft to my HD800 and other headphones... so I’m looking for something that can do the same - since the original Cavalli amps are incredibly rare...


The monoprice versions aren't in the same league as the originals. Try them out. I do think that the platinum is a great amp, especially at the frequently discounted prices. The gold x is just not worth the price.


----------



## Lolito

mine does not get hot when the rear switch is on, red light on, but front switch is off. Basically when the led is off it is cold.


----------



## domiji

DaKing said:


> Thanks for the observation. I have a THX AAA 987 paired with a Chord Qutest and Sony MDR Z1R, Sennheiser HD 660s as well as CA Solaris. I am wondering if the SA-1 would be a worthwhile upgrade to have that Class A experience? What do others think?




Does anyone know where i can order these or similar acrylic (or wood) stands/racks? 

Thank you very much


----------



## Middy

domiji said:


> Does anyone know where i can order these or similar acrylic (or wood) stands/racks?
> 
> Thank you very much



Should be able to get them off the shelf, shopping. But phoning companys near you could get you custom sizes make easily.  Maybe for a little more..... this was the first google result..  Acrylic display stands...


https://displaypro.co.uk/products/c...SMVyREnCiVbw4vjzGWgRi13ygPYczDMwaAq4FEALw_wcB


----------



## Fly2High

Lolito said:


> mine does not get hot when the rear switch is on, red light on, but front switch is off. Basically when the led is off it is cold.


I misspoke when I said my amp is room temp.  I have been using it as a pre amp and as a HP amp and at the time, I was using it as a pre amp.  As a pre amp, it remains barely over room temp.  When I use it as a HP amp, it does warm up  but nothing crazy.

Question:  If you tend to have the volume knob towards the higher end, does that mean this amp is using more/most of the power to drive the headphones and turn less into heat?   Would a lower volume setting cause more heat to be produced?


----------



## joseG86

Fly2High said:


> I misspoke when I said my amp is room temp.  I have been using it as a pre amp and as a HP amp and at the time, I was using it as a pre amp.  As a pre amp, it remains barely over room temp.  When I use it as a HP amp, it does warm up  but nothing crazy.
> 
> Question:  If you tend to have the volume knob towards the higher end, does that mean this amp is using more/most of the power to drive the headphones and turn less into heat?   Would a lower volume setting cause more heat to be produced?


Heat is never going to be a problem with SA-1, the heatsink is kind of big lol


----------



## Fly2High

joseG86 said:


> Heat is never going to be a problem with SA-1, the heatsink is kind of big lol


I know, I was just curious if it will feel cooler when the knob is turned up and slightly warmer when it is putting out less.   As I understand it, a class A amp is always consuming full power and dissipates what it doesn't use as heat.  Curious if that was the case with this and if I am understanding Class A.


----------



## Chamade (May 3, 2021)

Mine get


Fly2High said:


> I know, I was just curious if it will feel cooler when the knob is turned up and slightly warmer when it is putting out less.   As I understand it, a class A amp is always consuming full power and dissipates what it doesn't use as heat.  Curious if that was the case with this and if I am understanding Class A.


I read in multiple places that this is a Class AB amp, not pure Class A. I guess that would explain it…which makes me wonder why is it advertised as Class A? Even if it’s Class A biased, that doesn’t feel quite right 🤔


----------



## tamleo

Well well so isn't this a real class-a amp? After horrible stories about Topping amps and some of my Chinese iems in the past, It will take a long time for me to trust and put my money on Chinese audio products


----------



## Lolito (May 3, 2021)

tamleo said:


> Well well so isn't this a real class-a amp? After horrible stories about Topping amps and some of my Chinese iems in the past, It will take a long time for me to trust and put my money on Chinese audio products





Chamade said:


> Mine get
> 
> I read in multiple places that this is a Class AB amp, not pure Class A. I guess that would explain it…which makes me wonder why is it advertised as Class A? Even if it’s Class A biased, that doesn’t feel quite right 🤔


I have read 30 times minimum it is A/AB and not a pure real 100%  class A before buying it, in fact, I have not seen anything pure class A I think in my life, or in the last 30 years. When they say class A, it is never pure real class A until probed the other way around. There is no pure class A, there is fake class A unless otherwise really demostrated.


----------



## tamleo

Lolito said:


> I have read 30 times it is not a pure real 100% and not AB class A before buying it, in fact, I have not seeing anything pure class A I think in my life, or in the last 30 years. When they say class A, it is never pure real class A until probed the other way around. There is no pure class A, there is fake class A unless otherwise really demostrated.


Are you sure? I can name you a number of real class-a headamps right now (not mimicking or tricking or something..)


----------



## Chibs

GSX Mini is a class A amp.
Chibs


----------



## joseG86

Can these companies claim their amps are class A when they really are A/B? I mean, can they really scam the customers just like that when they can get busted at forums like these? It is really tricky


----------



## ra990

Admit it, most of us wouldn't be able to tell the difference between class A/AB/D/T when listening. Most amps that are class A are actually A/B with a class A bias. Who cares? Don't let "Class A" become a marketing ploy, it is meaningless.  Just because one amp is class A and one is AB or D, it doesn't mean the class A will be better. Just like DACs, it's all about the amp's implementation and how it sounds and this one sounds really good.


----------



## Pharmaboy

ra990 said:


> Admit it, most of us wouldn't be able to tell the difference between class A/AB/D/T when listening. Most amps that are class A are actually A/B with a class A bias. Who cares? Don't let "Class A" become a marketing ploy, it is meaningless.  Just because one amp is class A and one is AB or D, it doesn't mean the class A will be better. Just like DACs, it's all about the amp's implementation and how it sounds and this one sounds really good.


 I think a primo headphone run directly off the amp = the best opportunity to hear differences between class A/AB/D/T amps.

There have been any number of pure class A amplifiers in high-end audio systems. These large 2-channel designs are renowned for heat output, inefficiency--and sometimes exalted sound. There are also class A amps used for headphones. The one I can think of offhand is the now-discontinued Audeze Deckard.

You're correct in saying class-A design doesn't guarantee better sound. But class A is more than a marketing ploy. Pure class A amps, designed & built to a high standard, are said to sound pretty special (I've never heard one so can't comment).


----------



## ra990

Pharmaboy said:


> I think a primo headphone run directly off the amp = the best opportunity to hear differences between class A/AB/D/T amps.
> 
> There have been any number of pure class A amplifiers in high-end audio systems. These large 2-channel designs are renowned for heat output, inefficiency--and sometimes exalted sound. There are also class A amps used for headphones. The one I can think of offhand is the now-discontinued Audeze Deckard.
> 
> You're correct in saying class-A design doesn't guarantee better sound. But class A is more than a marketing ploy. Pure class A amps, designed & built to a high standard, are said to sound pretty special (I've never heard one so can't comment).


I have, it's not much different. I had a Pass XA25, pure class A amp for my Susvara and now have a Chord Etude, a class A/B. The Etude is as good, if not better, in a smaller size and much less heat and power waste.


----------



## brianfromspace

Just hooked up my Arya's to the SA-1. Sounds very sweet. I moved away from a FA-12 as I found the unit too big. One thing I don't understand is that I have to crank the SA-1 (6480mW @ 32Ω) up to 3 o'clock (high gain) and the FA-12 (2600mW @ 32Ω) only just passed 12 o'clock. The FA-12 should be a pure class A amp, but I thought the SA-1 is that as well so they say...

Can somebody explain me while the SA-1 has more then twice the amount of power I still have to move the volume pot further?

thx!


----------



## Lolito (May 3, 2021)

ra990 said:


> Admit it, most of us wouldn't be able to tell the difference between class A/AB/D/T when listening. Most amps that are class A are actually A/B with a class A bias. Who cares? Don't let "Class A" become a marketing ploy, it is meaningless.  Just because one amp is class A and one is AB or D, it doesn't mean the class A will be better. Just like DACs, it's all about the amp's implementation and how it sounds and this one sounds really good.


class A pretty much doesn't exist, so no body can even try that, much less tell the difference. But between class A (A+a/B), and class D anybody can tell the difference, in a blind test or with a switcher. By memory, depends on how stupid that person is, there is a lot of people who are very stupid, or older,  for something so complicated.

Now, between a pure class A and and an A+B type, well, they might sound different for other reasons not the class type. In any case, amplifiers do not fall from the sky, to tell the difference you have to first have access to them...


----------



## Chamade

brianfromspace said:


> Just hooked up my Arya's to the SA-1. Sounds very sweet. I moved away from a FA-12 as I found the unit too big. One thing I don't understand is that I have to crank the SA-1 (6480mW @ 32Ω) up to 3 o'clock (high gain) and the FA-12 (2600mW @ 32Ω) only just passed 12 o'clock. The FA-12 should be a pure class A amp, but I thought the SA-1 is that as well so they say...
> 
> Can somebody explain me while the SA-1 has more then twice the amount of power I still have to move the volume pot further?
> 
> thx!



I am also confused by this, my iFi micro BL is able to get louder (4.8W at 32ohm).
I'll be honest I don't know if I trust Singxer with their specs anymore.

This amp sounds great, but I wouldn't bet on it being 6.5W..or Class A strictly speaking...


----------



## ra990

The volume pot works differently on every amp. Some are linear, some logarithmic, etc. 12'oclock on one amp might be as loud as 3'oclock on a much more powerful amp. That has nothing to do with the amp's power. Volume pots are just attenuation for the incoming signal before the amplification stage. Don't be afraid to max it out if you have to, that's not a bad thing.


----------



## quawn0418

Chamade said:


> I am also confused by this, my iFi micro BL is able to get louder (4.8W at 32ohm).
> I'll be honest I don't know if I trust Singxer with their specs anymore.
> 
> This amp sounds great, but I wouldn't bet on it being 6.5W..or Class A strictly speaking...


Wattage doesn’t completely determine how loud it will drive your cans or speakers. Fidelity, density, weight, and things of that nature also come into play when power is concerned. One thing I can tell you is that the thx 887 dumps 6w into 32 ohms and does in fact get louder than the sa-1 but it distorts horribly at really high volume where as I couldnt get the sa-1 to distort if I tried. Get what I mean??


----------



## Pharmaboy

Chamade said:


> I am also confused by this, my iFi micro BL is able to get louder (4.8W at 32ohm).
> I'll be honest I don't know if I trust Singxer with their specs anymore.
> 
> This amp sounds great, but I wouldn't bet on it being 6.5W..or Class A strictly speaking...



There are 2 types of analog volume pots:

*Linear: *these track increasing or decreasing volume at the same rate of change over the entire rotational span of the pot
*Logarithmic:* these track very differently at lower volumes (where change in volume is gradual) than at higher volume (where change in volume comes faster and faster per degree of rotation)
It sounds like the SA-1's volume pot is logarithmic. That would fully explain why the volume goes up dramatically when it's 3/4s rotated vs more slowly lower down in the volume range. I have an amp w/a complex logarithmic pot, and it behaves just like I described--the volume really rises quickly, in this case when the volume is ~2/3s raised. I would guess the increase in volume in the last 1/3 of rotation is more than in the entire 2/3s rotation that preceded it.

The type of volume pot used doesn't reflect the power capability of the amp--but it would explain these anomalous observations from users of the SA-1.


----------



## joseG86 (May 3, 2021)

brianfromspace said:


> Just hooked up my Arya's to the SA-1. Sounds very sweet. I moved away from a FA-12 as I found the unit too big. One thing I don't understand is that I have to crank the SA-1 (6480mW @ 32Ω) up to 3 o'clock (high gain) and the FA-12 (2600mW @ 32Ω) only just passed 12 o'clock. The FA-12 should be a pure class A amp, but I thought the SA-1 is that as well so they say...
> 
> Can somebody explain me while the SA-1 has more then twice the amount of power I still have to move the volume pot further?
> 
> thx!


You'll need to go high gain for Arya in SA-1



Pharmaboy said:


> There are 2 types of analog volume pots:
> 
> *Linear: *these track increasing or decreasing volume at the same rate of change over the entire rotational span of the pot
> *Logarithmic:* these track very differently at lower volumes (where change in volume is gradual) than at higher volume (where change in volume comes faster and faster per degree of rotation)
> ...


I really appreciate SA-1 being logarithmic, for D8000 Pro, where you have a lot of range to adjust the volume to your needs. Jotunheim 2 for example is linear and you instantly notice. Thanks @Pharmaboy for the master class, new thing learnt


----------



## Chamade

Lolito said:


> class A pretty much doesn't exist, so no body can even try that, much less tell the difference. But between class A (A+a/B), and class D anybody can tell the difference, in a blind test or with a switcher. By memory, depends on how stupid that person is, there is a lot of people who are very stupid, or older,  for something so complicated.
> 
> Now, between a pure class A and and an A+B type, well, they might sound different for other reasons not the class type. In any case, amplifiers do not fall from the sky, to tell the difference you have to first have access to them...


You guys are making good points, but Singxer should have been more honest about it and not put Class A on the chassis. Chord advertises the Etude as Class AB, transparency in advertising is nice. Then again, Chord makes some other wild claims….😅


----------



## Lolito (May 3, 2021)

Chamade said:


> I am also confused by this, my iFi micro BL is able to get louder (4.8W at 32ohm).
> I'll be honest I don't know if I trust Singxer with their specs anymore.
> 
> This amp sounds great, but I wouldn't bet on it being 6.5W..or Class A strictly speaking...


For what reason did you ever trusted any specs? I don't even read the specs anymore. I watched Zeos review, I didn't believe him, but I said, what the hell, let this **** fool me, and guess what, it was actually good. Now, if you ever trust a spec, maybe you are the problem? think about it. A spec of a new item from a new brand... like not a sennheiser hd600 built since 1995, no. it is a ***** piece of pure ****, LOL I never saw any singer claim, and also this was already mentioned in the measurements thread forum, it is not class A, it is AB. This is like a surprise hype, an antenagate hype, LOL....

It is not pure class A, ooohhhhhh my god!!!!!!!! For ennio morricone, oh my lord, what a scam!!! this and cryptocurency, what a scam!!!!! tey said classs AAA.

Oh my god!!!!!!! the scammers mafia, A and not AB, my god!!!!!! should be in prison this people. Oh my god me via matá, wiiiiii!!!!!!!! Wiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!


----------



## joseG86

Lolito said:


> For what reason did you ever trusted any specs? I don't even read the specs anymore. I watched Zeos review, I didn't believe him, but I said, what the hell, let this **** fool me, and guess what, it was actually good. Now, if you ever trust a spec, maybe you are the problem? think about it. A spec of a new item from a new brand... like not a sennheiser hd600 built since 1995, no. it is a ***** piece of pure ****, LOL I never saw any singer claim, and also this was already mentioned in the measurements thread forum, it is not class A, it is AB. This is like a surprise hype, an antenagate hype, LOL....
> 
> It is not pure class A, ooohhhhhh my god!!!!!!!! For ennio morricone, oh my lord, what a scam!!! this and cryptocurency, what a scam!!!!! tey said classs AAA.
> 
> Oh my god!!!!!!! the scammers mafia, A and not AB, my god!!!!!! should be in prison this people. Oh my god me via matá, wiiiiii!!!!!!!! Wiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!



I wanna try your mushrooms


----------



## ra990

joseG86 said:


> I wanna try your mushrooms


That's not mushrooms, that's cocaine.


----------



## Lolito

Chamade said:


> You guys are making good points, but Singxer should have been more honest about it and not put Class A on the chassis. Chord advertises the Etude as Class AB, transparency in advertising is nice. Then again, Chord makes some other wild claims….😅


you are right I think too, should be more clear, for people who can get missleaded. But this is not going to be in wallmart shelf, and I would just do not trust the company, trust the forum, reviewer who do know, etc... I guess.

I noticed that on the pot too, wrote it on my take on this device, the amp gets exponentially louder at the end of the travel specially. I do not know myself if this is caused by the amp or the pot, if you guys knows it's the pot... I would certainly prefer a non logarithmic pot, or at least not so much. In low gain you ave to move too much pot to alter volume... can be practical for iems I guess, but... I personally I think I would prefer a linear pot. another thing to indicate properly by the manufacturer.

Wiiiiiiiiii!!!!!


----------



## Lolito

ra990 said:


> That's not mushrooms, that's cocaine.


Oh bro, wish I had that money. Just a coffee too much, a problem less, a sale made, oh my god, MEVIA MATÁ... WIIIIIIIII!!!!!!! wiiiiiiiiiiii!!!


----------



## ra990

Lolito said:


> you are right I think too, should be more clear, for people who can get missleaded. But this is not going to be in wallmart shelf, and I would just do not trust the company, trust the forum, reviewer who do know, etc... I guess.
> 
> I noticed that on the pot too, wrote it on my take on this device, the amp gets exponentially louder at the end of the travel specially. I do not know myself if this is caused by the amp or the pot, if you guys knows it's the pot... I would certainly prefer a non logarithmic pot, or at least not so much. In low gain you ave to move too much pot to alter volume... can be practical for iems I guess, but... I personally I think I would prefer a linear pot. another thing to indicate properly by the manufacturer.
> 
> Wiiiiiiiiii!!!!!


Volume pot on it is fine, it's these old hifi misconceptions about headroom on the volume pot and how you don't want to be really high on the volume because of increased distortion and all this BS that really don't hold true, except with particular devices.


----------



## joseG86

ra990 said:


> Volume pot on it is fine, it's these old hifi misconceptions about headroom on the volume pot and how you don't want to be really high on the volume because of increased distortion and all this BS that really don't hold true, except with particular devices.


What is your fav HP???


----------



## ra990

joseG86 said:


> What is your fav HP???


It's between the Abyss and the Susvara. Whichever one I had on my head last 

For a fun and lively listen, Abyss for sure. For a relaxed and nuanced listen, the Susvara is tops.


----------



## joseG86

ra990 said:


> It's between the Abyss and the Susvara. Whichever one I had on my head last
> 
> For a fun and lively listen, Abyss for sure. For a relaxed and nuanced listen, the Susvara is tops.


  Roger that, sorry about the off-topic lol, you're a good singer btw


----------



## Pharmaboy (May 3, 2021)

Lolito said:


> you are right I think too, should be more clear, for people who can get missleaded. But this is not going to be in wallmart shelf, and I would just do not trust the company, trust the forum, reviewer who do know, etc... I guess.
> 
> I noticed that on the pot too, wrote it on my take on this device, the amp gets exponentially louder at the end of the travel specially. I do not know myself if this is caused by the amp or the pot, if you guys knows it's the pot... I would certainly prefer a non logarithmic pot, or at least not so much. In low gain you ave to move too much pot to alter volume... can be practical for iems I guess, but... I personally I think I would prefer a linear pot. another thing to indicate properly by the manufacturer.
> 
> Wiiiiiiiiii!!!!!


The design of a logarithmic pot tends to favor those who listen a low volumes (at which there is considerable range of rotation available) vs those who listen at high volumes (where there is far less rotational range).

My amp with a logarithmic volume pot is both a headphone amp & rather full-featured preamp. I'm using it primarily as a system preamp for my complicated desktop audio system (sub + 2 large bookshelf speakers + electronic crossover). Except for the infrequent occasions where I crank the speakers, I primarily listen to low volume classical music. This amp's logarithmic pot is perfect for that--I have quite granular & wide-ranging control of low volumes. But when I wish to crank the speakers, I have to push the pot above ~2/3s of its range, where things become less granular, making it easier to over- or under-shoot the intended high volume.

This HP amp/preamp is powerful (10 wpc @40 ohms), so almost certainly the logarithmic pot was used to prevent casual headphone users from blowing their brains out...


----------



## Pharmaboy

ra990 said:


> Volume pot on it is fine, it's these old hifi misconceptions about headroom on the volume pot and how you don't want to be really high on the volume because of increased distortion and all this BS that really don't hold true, except with particular devices.



That's exactly right. 

With a linear volume pot, when you've rotated the pot ~3/4s, you really are approaching the maximum power output of the amp where headroom & clipping become concerns. But with a logarithmic volume pot, when you've rotated it ~3/4s, you still quite a ways to go in power output.


----------



## ra990 (May 3, 2021)

Pharmaboy said:


> That's exactly right.
> 
> With a linear volume pot, when you've rotated the pot ~3/4s, you really are approaching the maximum power output of the amp where headroom & clipping become concerns. But with a logarithmic volume pot, when you've rotated it ~3/4s, you still quite a ways to go in power output.


Not only that, a lot of amps now don't let you clip, even at max volume (assuming standard input signal level). This seems like one of those amps because I don't use its volume pot. Mine's always on max and I use my DAC as a preamp to control volume. There's no distortion, increased noise, or anything like that at max volume.


----------



## Lolito

Pharmaboy said:


> The design of a logarithmic pot tends to favor those who listen a low volumes (at which there is considerable range of rotation available) vs those who listen at high volumes (where there is far less rotational range).
> 
> My amp with a logarithmic volume pot is both a headphone amp & rather full-featured preamp. I'm using it primarily as a system preamp for my complicated desktop audio system (sub + 2 large bookshelf speakers + electronic crossover). Except for the infrequent occasions where I crank the speakers, I primarily listen to low volume classical music. This amp's logarithmic pot is perfect for that--I have quite granular & wide-ranging control of low volumes. But when I wish to crank the speakers, I have to push the pot above ~2/3s of its range, where things become less granular, making it easier to over- or under-shoot the intended high volume.
> 
> This HP amp/preamp is powerful (10 wpc @40 ohms), so almost certainly the logarithmic pot was used to prevent casual headphone users from blowing their brains out...


I see, thanks both for the proper explanation, makes sense, this exponential thing is certainly safer. My only concern is, I also use it as pre amp, and when I want to crank it for a moment, takes a lot of rotation. I have to make half a full turn to get into higher volume, and then position it with precision, but there lis almost half a turn of useless travel at times, in low gain. But it is safer indeed and therefore I think now probably better like this, after reading your explanations. Then again, everything has its caveats... if you are using headphones, in low gain, many times you are at 6 o'clock, and not gonna go under it to make it louder, 6 would be ok, but then you leave it there, not good... Also, I think gain switch also changes pre-amped output, right? has anyone tested this?


----------



## Chamade

ra990 said:


> Not only that, a lot of amps now don't let you clip, even at max volume (assuming standard input signal level). This seems like one of those amps because I don't use it's volume pot, mine's always on max and I use my DAC as a preamp to control volume. There's no distortion, increased noise, or anything like that at max volume.


Hopefully that's the reason. At maxed out volume my iFi (4.8W) is louder in absolute terms, even if the quality does seem to degrade.
Either the SA-1 isn't 6.5W or the volume is limited to prevent clipping.

...and yes, I have all 4 switches set to high gain.


----------



## joseG86 (May 3, 2021)

Chamade said:


> Hopefully that's the reason. At maxed out volume my iFi (4.8W) is louder in absolute terms, even if the quality does seem to degrade.
> Either the SA-1 isn't 6.5W or the volume is limited to prevent clipping.
> 
> ...and yes, I have all 4 switches set to high gain.


2 switches are for RCA the other 2 for XLR, I read that in a chinese forum, kind of smart if you let me say it. SA-1 design is smart (I have to test this myself tho)


----------



## Lolito

joseG86 said:


> 2 switches are for RCA the other 2 for XLR, I read that in a chinese forum, kind of smart if you let me say it. SA-1 design is smart (I have to test this myself tho)


would be great if we could find this out, I am using XLR rear outputs, and then single ended for headphones. I would not mind to leave the rear XLR low gain, and front single ended headphones connection high gain... For some reason I though the 4 switches are for XLR rear outputs, 2 per channel.


----------



## Lolito

ra990 said:


> It's between the Abyss and the Susvara. Whichever one I had on my head last
> 
> For a fun and lively listen, Abyss for sure. For a relaxed and nuanced listen, the Susvara is tops.


No Audeze love, ever? how come? is there polarization in headphone users regarding planars for some reason? sound or otherwise?


----------



## ra990

Lolito said:


> No Audeze love, ever? how come? is there polarization in headphone users regarding planars for some reason? sound or otherwise?


I have no experience with Audeze, but I am open to trying them! I have nothing against them.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Lolito said:


> I see, thanks both for the proper explanation, makes sense, this exponential thing is certainly safer. My only concern is, I also use it as pre amp, and when I want to crank it for a moment, takes a lot of rotation. I have to make half a full turn to get into higher volume, and then position it with precision, but there lis almost half a turn of useless travel at times, in low gain. But it is safer indeed and therefore I think now probably better like this, after reading your explanations. Then again, everything has its caveats... if you are using headphones, in low gain, many times you are at 6 o'clock, and not gonna go under it to make it louder, 6 would be ok, but then you leave it there, not good... Also, I think gain switch also changes pre-amped output, right? has anyone tested this?



I've seen a few others here comment that the gain switch affects the preamp out as well as HP amp.

RE: "when I want to crank it for a moment, takes a lot of rotation" ... This brings us to a real failing in the merchandizing of this amp IMO--no remote. I would have already purchased one if it had a remote. In my main system the nearest volume pot of the amp/preamp du jour is 4'-5' away, too far to comfortably control by hand.

It's child's play to install a remote circuit in an amp, and it's not in the signal path. Do that (even you have to add $25 or so to the list price) and I'll buy one.

I like everything I'm reading about the SA-1's sound, but no remote is a deal-breaker for me.


----------



## Lolito (May 3, 2021)

My dac has a remote, my media player has a phone app to adjust volume... an amp with remote would require a motorized pot, or a digital ladder pot, in which case it would add cost, it would enter burson territory, that has remote, spl has some models with remote, I think, maybe... not a cheap feature what you are asking, unless digital pot...


----------



## Chamade (May 3, 2021)

joseG86 said:


> 2 switches are for RCA the other 2 for XLR, I read that in a chinese forum, kind of smart if you let me say it. SA-1 design is smart (I have to test this myself tho)


This doesn't seem to be the case. Switch 1-2 affect one channel and switch 3-4 affect the other channel, for both RCA and XLR...I just tried it on my iFi and SMSL SU-9.
For example when I switch 1 to low it lowers the left channel gain, when I turn switch 2 to low it further lowers the left channel gain.

Isn't this effectively like having medium gain (having switches 2 and 4 set to low gain) ???

I am doing this with the amp on and music playing so the effect is quite clear.


----------



## ra990

Chamade said:


> This doesn't seem to be the case. Switch 1-2 affect one channel and switch 3-4 affect the other channel, for both RCA and XLR...I just tried it on my iFi and SMSL SU-9.
> For example when I switch 1 to low it lowers the left channel gain, when I turn switch 2 to low it further lowers the left channel gain.
> 
> Isn't this effectively like having medium gain (having switches 2 and 4 set to low gain) ???
> ...


I believe there's two amplification modules per channel, since it's a balanced amp. I don't think it's meant to have a medium gain by only toggling two of the four switches, but interesting discovery nonetheless!


----------



## Fly2High

Pharmaboy said:


> I've seen a few others here comment that the gain switch affects the preamp out as well as HP amp.
> 
> RE: "when I want to crank it for a moment, takes a lot of rotation" ... This brings us to a real failing in the merchandizing of this amp IMO--no remote. I would have already purchased one if it had a remote. In my main system the nearest volume pot of the amp/preamp du jour is 4'-5' away, too far to comfortably control by hand.
> 
> ...


I have a SA-1.  This IS primarily a headphone amp, is it not?

How long is the chord on your headphones or how short are your arms that you need a remote?

My experience is using it as a pre amp with my powered desk speakers and I enjoy the headphones in the desk chair.   My headphones tend to have cables less than 6 ft long.

Doesn't take much to reach out to adjust the volume but YMMV.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Fly2High said:


> I have a SA-1.  This IS primarily a headphone amp, is it not?
> 
> How long is the chord on your headphones or how short are your arms that you need a remote?
> 
> ...



The electronics for my desktop system are ~5 ft from where I sit on this big L-shaped desk. I can't reach a volume control on any amp in the typical amp location in that stack of gear, so remote is pretty important.

FWIW, I have 35" sleeve...somewhat short of what's required.

As for SA-1 primarily being a headphone amp: it is if you primarily use it for headphones. But if you're me and use it primarily as a preamp (with occasional HP use), it would primarily be a preamp.

When I get interested in a headphone amp/preamp, typically I'm hoping the wonderful sound people describe for it on headphones would equally apply on preamp output (because I love my desktop speakers & use them constantly). The clear winner in my current setup at this dual/good-sound trick is the Violectric V281.


----------



## nekky

Pharmaboy said:


> The electronics for my desktop system are ~5 ft from where I sit on this big L-shaped desk. I can't reach a volume control on any amp in the typical amp location in that stack of gear, so remote is pretty important.
> 
> FWIW, I have 35" sleeve...somewhat short of what's required.
> 
> ...


Sooo tempted to pull the trigger on the V280FE on drop but I feel like maybe I’m being redundant, already owning the SA-1??


----------



## godmax

nekky said:


> Sooo tempted to pull the trigger on the V280FE on drop but I feel like maybe I’m being redundant, already owning the SA-1??


You never can have too many amps


----------



## Chamade

nekky said:


> Sooo tempted to pull the trigger on the V280FE on drop but I feel like maybe I’m being redundant, already owning the SA-1??


You know you need it...also we need a comparison to the SA-1.


----------



## Middy

godmax said:


> You never can have too many amps


Frankenstein agrees  . .. 

For those who have the SA1 .. is it better than your last Amp and do you enjoy it.  That sense of enjoyment with your music again...
A bit of a poll....
I ask as its the only true statement i can really share when i get new equipment.....

Dave🙂 
DHL printed a despatch so i am one step closer..


----------



## Chamade

godmax said:


> You never can have too many amps


You are not kidding there.


----------



## Jay_vs

Middy said:


> Frankenstein agrees  . ..
> 
> For those who have the SA1 .. is it better than your last Amp and do you enjoy it.  That sense of enjoyment with your music again...
> A bit of a poll....
> ...


It is better than my last amp and I love it. Can't see how you'd want more from a headphone amp.


----------



## Pharmaboy

nekky said:


> Sooo tempted to pull the trigger on the V280FE on drop but I feel like maybe I’m being redundant, already owning the SA-1??


What's wrong with being redundant? Art collectors try to have multiple works from the same style/time period...so why should we restrain ourselves re amps?

As the V281 is my #1 favorite HP amps AND preamp--the absolutely ideal sound for my tastes. Yet I'm still interested in the SA-1 and would have bought one if not for lack of remote. I have 6 amps at present, each with a slightly different flavor of my preferred sound. I switch amps way more often than I switch HPs...


----------



## Lolito

Pharmaboy said:


> The electronics for my desktop system are ~5 ft from where I sit on this big L-shaped desk. I can't reach a volume control on any amp in the typical amp location in that stack of gear, so remote is pretty important.
> 
> FWIW, I have 35" sleeve...somewhat short of what's required.
> 
> ...


why don't you adjust the volume remotely in the digital field instead of in the analog field? it is certainly cheaper, I know it lowers the resolution but, that is what I do. otherwise there is a physically adjusting knob thing via bluetooth and an app, no? it has a motor and a rubber band and it moves the knob remotely. any knob you want. do not have the link for that unfortunately.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Lolito said:


> why don't you adjust the volume remotely in the digital field instead of in the analog field? it is certainly cheaper, I know it lowers the resolution but, that is what I do. otherwise there is a physically adjusting knob thing via bluetooth and an app, no? it has a motor and a rubber band and it moves the knob remotely. any knob you want. do not have the link for that unfortunately.


Never heard of any bluetooth knob...is that for real?

I stopped adjusting volume via digital/onscreen controls years ago. The reduction in resolution was audible and unwelcome (I spend good $$ for resolution in gear, thus reluctant to give it away for convenience). Also, each program typically has its own digital controls w/rather different noise floors & setpoints. I got some real "volume surprises" bouncing between apps.


----------



## Lolito

Yes, it was a physical motorized potentiometer, with a rubber band, like a bicycle chain, like a turntable with external motor, that moves the actual knob in your preamp... very neat. A friend showed it to me years back, can't find it anymore.

You certainly need something with a remote, the Burson maybe is good for you? 400$ extra though.


----------



## ra990

Lolito said:


> Yes, it was a physical motorized potentiometer, with a rubber band, like a bicycle chain, like a turntable with external motor, that moves the actual knob in your preamp... very neat. A friend showed it to me years back, can't find it anymore.
> 
> You certainly need something with a remote, the Burson maybe is good for you? 400$ extra though.


I can see something like that working and looking very interesting while it does its thing. Never come across it before either, but sounds like an interesting idea. Props to whoever came up with it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Lolito said:


> Yes, it was a physical motorized potentiometer, with a rubber band, like a bicycle chain, like a turntable with external motor, that moves the actual knob in your preamp... very neat. A friend showed it to me years back, can't find it anymore.
> 
> You certainly need something with a remote, the Burson maybe is good for you? 400$ extra though.



Had a Burson once...never again. It was the Burson Soloist--the bigger version that also acted as a preamp. Read many reviews, and it was routinely described as "musical" and "slightly warm" -- unfortunately it was neither. It has a typical spotlighted/upper frequencies come first SS sound. Great bass, but average mids, annoying upper mids & highs. I also wrestled with the stepped volume pot that had (if memory serves) just 14 steps, way too few for usability. 

I figured out the hard way that I'm not an ideal Burson customer...


----------



## nekky

Pharmaboy said:


> What's wrong with being redundant? Art collectors try to have multiple works from the same style/time period...so why should we restrain ourselves re amps?
> 
> As the V281 is my #1 favorite HP amps AND preamp--the absolutely ideal sound for my tastes. Yet I'm still interested in the SA-1 and would have bought one if not for lack of remote. I have 6 amps at present, each with a slightly different flavor of my preferred sound. I switch amps way more often than I switch HPs...


You’re not helping 😆


----------



## Arniesb

godmax said:


> You never can have too many amps


Rather spend money on source upgrades than rather on things that add no improvements besides different flavours.


----------



## paradoxper

joseG86 said:


> Can these companies claim their amps are class A when they really are A/B? I mean, can they really scam the customers just like that when they can get busted at forums like these? It is really tricky


I haven't looked at the specs of this amplifier but are you sure your rather efficient headphone ever leaves class A operation. Very few headphones actually push their inefficiency on the amplifier.

Not that you could tell the difference, anyhow.

You could always build a CFA3 headamp that pushes 15W into 50 ohms and ignite your headphones on fire for show.


----------



## Lolito

Pharmaboy said:


> Had a Burson once...never again. It was the Burson Soloist--the bigger version that also acted as a preamp. Read many reviews, and it was routinely described as "musical" and "slightly warm" -- unfortunately it was neither. It has a typical spotlighted/upper frequencies come first SS sound. Great bass, but average mids, annoying upper mids & highs. I also wrestled with the stepped volume pot that had (if memory serves) just 14 steps, way too few for usability.
> 
> I figured out the hard way that I'm not an ideal Burson customer...


It also looks a bit weird on the outside to be honest those burson... and the knob too tiny... violectric or gsx or spl or the singxer look better, but no remote. F#&K burson then. not many options less. What about a 10K$ nelson pass? they make those with a remote?


----------



## Chamade

godmax said:


> You never can have too many amps


How do you like the SA-1 compared to the Violectric, GSX Mini and Soloist?


----------



## Middy

This is why Head fi has a million posts asking the same questions.. few of us are able to really try  so many different Amps headphones ect. Lucky we have people who have and let us know...


----------



## godmax

Chamade said:


> How do you like the SA-1 compared to the Violectric, GSX Mini and Soloist?


I do like the SA-1 very much so far, very powerful (still on low gain since day 1, even on my hardest to drive headphone the A2C) and transparent. Not any detectable hiss on any of my headphones so far (Soloist 3XP can have some minor hiss on sensitive headphones when on medium/high gain, V281 needed also some reduction from default pre-gain setting), same as the GS-X mini in this regard. In my opinion the SA-1 might not supersede the other 3 mentioned amps (all have their uniqueness and right to exist) in all sonic properties, but gets very close and offers a very good price-performance ratio. The SA-1 will definitely stay in my collection!

_Just right now I am listening to the Quad ERA-1 on the SA-1 with Musician Pegasus - very good combo!_


----------



## domiji

After over 2 weeks with my SA-1 i can say that i just love this amp. It is much better for my taste than my A90 and my H16.

The DC mod, the HifiTuning Supreme 3 fuse and the Supra SPC anniversary power cord moved this amp to another tier in my opinion.

I use it in high gain mode (low-Z) with my Aryas because i think in low gain the Arya don't get that kind of punchiness and dynamics that this headphone needs.


----------



## Muataz

domiji said:


> After over 2 weeks with my SA-1 i can say that i just love this amp. It is much better for my taste than my A90 and my H16.
> 
> The DC mod, the HifiTuning Supreme 3 fuse and the Supra SPC anniversary power cord moved this amp to another tier in my opinion.
> 
> I use it in high gain mode (low-Z) with my Aryas because i think in low gain the Arya don't get that kind of punchiness and dynamics that this headphone needs.


Which fuse you got, the size and A rating ? I'm lazy to check


----------



## domiji

Hifituning Supreme3 silver/gold.

In my case it was a 5x20mm and T2A


----------



## sparkfuzz

domiji said:


> After over 2 weeks with my SA-1 i can say that i just love this amp. It is much better for my taste than my A90 and my H16.
> 
> The DC mod, the HifiTuning Supreme 3 fuse and the Supra SPC anniversary power cord moved this amp to another tier in my opinion.
> 
> I use it in high gain mode (low-Z) with my Aryas because i think in low gain the Arya don't get that kind of punchiness and dynamics that this headphone needs.


Can you please explain how to do the DC mod with the jumpers? Do you need four jumpers? I have scoured this whole thread and nobody has really said how to do it. Thank you very much


----------



## nekky

sparkfuzz said:


> Can you please explain how to do the DC mod with the jumpers? Do you need four jumpers? I have scoured this whole thread and nobody has really said how to do it. Thank you very much


Also include fuse info and why T2A is the right size and amperage


----------



## Chamade

nekky said:


> Also include fuse info and why T2A is the right size and amperage


Also, how does this improve the sound? 🎼


----------



## sparkfuzz

nekky said:


> Also include fuse info and why T2A is the right size and amperage


I am assuming the fuse you need is in correlation with your Voltage output as there are different AC voltages specific to where you live.  120V 60hz USA and 240V 60hz Europe. Maybe someone can suggest the fuse for people in the US and people in Europe? Thank you


----------



## Middy

Id always check with the manufacturer first for ratings but sound wise its quite suprising how it changes the sound. I tried a few brands but Synergistic research changed the sound but cost 1/5 of the Singxer.. It drives me crazy they do.. it shouldn't....  but lIke the Amps it is a choice if you like it.
120v regions check your fuse..
Ill pass on impressions when my Singxer arrives....


----------



## joseG86

Really sad you are selling your gear @domiji please don't leave us!


----------



## Lolito

Chamade said:


> Also, how does this improve the sound? 🎼


Yes, I still did not understand that part. I get it that when I put those jumpers on I will crap on my pants or something like that because of how good it's going to sound. Or pee on my panties from the pleasure like julia roberts said. But in terms of sound, what will be the change exactly?, or aproximately? someone said like releasing a hand brake, but, what is that supposed to be, LOL !!!


----------



## domiji

Lolito said:


> releasing a hand brake, but, what is that supposed to be, LOL !!!


I have said that the jumper mod is like releasing a handbrake. Not the fuse.

A german hifi magazine measured differences in voltage drops with different fuses (i dont know if this is the correct explanation in english, sorry.)

http://www.hifi-tuning.com/Review/Klangtuning_HT511.pdf

The guys at the Chinese Forums also recognize differences in fuses with the SA1.


----------



## domiji

sparkfuzz said:


> Can you please explain how to do the DC mod with the jumpers? Do you need four jumpers? I have scoured this whole thread and nobody has really said how to do it. Thank you very much



You have have to open the device and put 4 jumpers in this location:

http://www.headphoneclub.com/data/attachment/image/000/63/92/46_3000_0.jpg?mobile=2


Here are some Informations on the DC mod

http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-741745-1-1.html

https://kktl2ren3hfqrjgpnr4uxujfiy-...m.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2212956&extra=page=1


----------



## sparkfuzz

domiji said:


> You have have to open the device and put 4 jumpers in this location:
> 
> http://www.headphoneclub.com/data/attachment/image/000/63/92/46_3000_0.jpg?mobile=2
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for you help!


----------



## Lolito

so what does the jumper mod do soundwise, still not clear, at all. Thanks!!


----------



## domiji

domiji said:


> It is definately a hugh improvemend. It sounds more open, punchier with more dynamics and relaxed at the same time.
> 
> It sounds a bit like releasing a handbrake



I quote myself for this


----------



## Middy

Basically not using those dc protection capacitors helps. I  am suprised that guy on the Chinese forum hadnt upgraded those basic caps to something higher quality. But they built that option in. Premium Caps only cost 50 cents more but margins must be really tight. You void your warranty trying anyway.... you are good with fuse rolling....

Always nothing is free....🤔🙂


----------



## domiji

I know i void the warranty   

Trying the DC mod was just fun and i want to see what it can change in the sound. I've already had the fuse in my drawer from a previous device - so i just test it and for me - personally - it made a difference.


----------



## Middy

Its the first thing i am doing when i get mine.. Thank you @domiji for the help..
🙂


----------



## Lolito

definately a hugh improvemend

I see, thanks.


----------



## domiji (May 6, 2021)

*deleted* not worth the discussion


----------



## Lolito

New Knob arrived. not the best knob for this, had to sand this new knob a bit and put electrical tape on the axle to make it fit. Looks good though.


----------



## Jay_vs

That looks really good mate


----------



## Middy

A straw would work as well or tin foil... some places do copper model tubing..

Estimated Delivery Date
May, 11 2021 - By End of Day​SHENZHEN - SHENZHEN - CHINA MAINLAND​BIRMINGHAM - BIRMINGHAM - UK​
Oh yes... Fuse is here just waiting on the jumpers... wire can do to bridge the jumpers..

Ive even looked at sparkos labs op amps but not sure whats on the board.. unless some one has detailed pictures...


----------



## Pharmaboy

Lolito said:


> Yes, I still did not understand that part. I get it that when I put those jumpers on I will crap on my pants or something like that because of how good it's going to sound. Or pee on my panties from the pleasure like julia roberts said. But in terms of sound, what will be the change exactly?, or aproximately? someone said like releasing a hand brake, but, what is that supposed to be, LOL !!!



Well, you're #1 -- and #2 -- in my book.

(and you'll be hearing from Julia Roberts' lawyer)


----------



## Muataz

Middy said:


> A straw would work as well or tin foil... some places do copper model tubing..
> 
> Estimated Delivery Date
> May, 11 2021 - By End of Day​SHENZHEN - SHENZHEN - CHINA MAINLAND​BIRMINGHAM - BIRMINGHAM - UK​
> ...





Middy said:


> A straw would work as well or tin foil... some places do copper model tubing..
> 
> Estimated Delivery Date
> May, 11 2021 - By End of Day​SHENZHEN - SHENZHEN - CHINA MAINLAND​BIRMINGHAM - BIRMINGHAM - UK​
> ...






Opamp 1612A


----------



## joseG86

Muataz said:


> Opamp 1612A


How can you describe default mode vs dc mode?


----------



## Lolito

Jay_vs said:


> That looks really good mate


Yes, unfortunately, it does not work as good as it should. This amp has a very deep recession, like 5mm almost. This knob could not grab the axle, almost. Had to sand the knob rear, and the fixing screw to make it flatter where it touches the pot. But If I get the proper machine I can sand it 1-2mm more, then it will be ok. Otherwise it turns a little bit crooked. Apart from that, not only looks very good but the molted surface goes to the very edge, so it is always there. Also available in silver this knob.


----------



## Chamade (May 6, 2021)

Do any of these mods increase max volume output? I am still concerned that my other amp which is rated under 5W gets way louder at max volume.

I find myself maxing out (and wishing for more) the SA-1 on certain low gain tunes like Pink Floyd stuff, which should not be happening…


----------



## TitaniumDust (May 6, 2021)

I'm back one more time...   LOL!!!!!

I only burned in the SA-1 overnight for a week, and used it normally the rest of the time.  Today, I was greeted with a fully burned-in SA-1.  Just wow.  Take the clean, detailed sound of a THX amp like the 789, replace the soulless midrange with one that is full, detailed, dynamic, and a bit less bright.  Now take the 2-dimensionality of THX amps and replace it with actual soundstage depth that sounds nice and "holographic".  The result is the SA-1.  Could not be any happier with it.  I may try the jumper mod in the future, but for now I'm leaving it as is.  Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...


----------



## Lolito

TitaniumDust said:


> I'm back one more time...   LOL!!!!!
> 
> I only burned in the SA-1 overnight for a week, and used it normally the rest of the time.  Today, I was greeted with a fully burned-in SA-1.  Just wow.  Take the clean, detailed sound of a THX amp like the 789, replace the soulless midrange with one that is full, detailed, dynamic, and a bit less bright.  Now take the 2-dimensionality of THX amps and replace it with actual soundstage depth that sounds nice and "holographic".  The result is the SA-1.  Could not be any happier with it.  I may try the jumper mod in the future, but for now I'm leaving it as is.  Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...


Do the jumper mod and tell us about it.


----------



## quawn0418

TitaniumDust said:


> I'm back one more time...   LOL!!!!!
> 
> I only burned in the SA-1 overnight for a week, and used it normally the rest of the time.  Today, I was greeted with a fully burned-in SA-1.  Just wow.  Take the clean, detailed sound of a THX amp like the 789, replace the soulless midrange with one that is full, detailed, dynamic, and a bit less bright.  Now take the 2-dimensionality of THX amps and replace it with actual soundstage depth that sounds nice and "holographic".  The result is the SA-1.  Could not be any happier with it.  I may try the jumper mod in the future, but for now I'm leaving it as is.  Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...


Funny because today was “the day” for me...the day it hit me that I can no longer bare the sound of my thx 887, an amp I once loved...a burned in sa-1 is really solid leap forward. Especially considering that I almost returned the sa-1 because I could barely hear any difference between the two in the beginning. Now when I A/B them, the 887 just disappoints me. I will be selling the 887 soon. Only reason I still have it is because I’m using it to monitor the sa-1’s progress lol Thanks singxer!!


----------



## Muataz

joseG86 said:


> How can you describe default mode vs dc mode?


I compare in one song and I swap manu times quickly. I felt more tight. I will compare more later but have no time.


One interesting finding, I compare DAC smsl m500 using RCA to SDA-6 by XLR. The SDA-6 has surprise more bass and punch which I was not expected to hear.


----------



## sparkfuzz

TitaniumDust said:


> I'm back one more time...   LOL!!!!!
> 
> I only burned in the SA-1 overnight for a week, and used it normally the rest of the time.  Today, I was greeted with a fully burned-in SA-1.  Just wow.  Take the clean, detailed sound of a THX amp like the 789, replace the soulless midrange with one that is full, detailed, dynamic, and a bit less bright.  Now take the 2-dimensionality of THX amps and replace it with actual soundstage depth that sounds nice and "holographic".  The result is the SA-1.  Could not be any happier with it.  I may try the jumper mod in the future, but for now I'm leaving it as is.  Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...


That is exciting. I just got mine yesterday and I already highly prefer it over my 789.


----------



## Middy

Muataz said:


> Opamp 1612A


Thank you ever so much. @Muataz 
😁👍
It may be an option as people prefer Sparkos to the Bursons. I am no EE but have done soldering and electronic assembly for 20 years. The foot print can get in the adaptor but not sure if there is space for the customs  width wise to replace the Burr Browns.... 
i have only Capacitor rolled in my Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk2...  If Sparko says the Op amps are ok to swap.... and  foot print ok  i may try it.... but £70 per Op amp UK...  Value propositions always a killer...
A cable, a fuse, a power supply,  anti vibration... weights.... Then you tell people its a bargin AMP.. and spent as much or more pimping it out....lol
Options are available and something to think about at least for fun...
https://sparkoslabs.com/discrete-op-amps/soic-to-dip-adapter/


----------



## nekky

Well I am also really loving my SA-1. So much so that I held off buying the V280FE and pulled the trigger (at a steal) on a set of 2021 LCD-XC from a dealer in Ontario. I know they don’t take much to power but they should sound pretty good on the SA-1 I am hoping. Anyone else have them on this amp already?


----------



## Middy

Deutschland cha cha Deutschland cha cha
Estimate was 29th of May to UK

Friday

May, 07 2021​
22:34 Local time  |  Processed at LEIPZIG - GERMANYLEIPZIG - GERMANY
Soon my precious...soon...


----------



## Lolito

Mine 2 weeks old now, always on, did not burned in anything, just left it always on. This thing really sounds well and pleasant. I like to eq a bit the HD6xx, give it some bass kick, but with this amp i can also enjoy it so much with no eq, the xumb is still there. Now I just need an affordable bassy cans, that I am missing. Audeze LCD 2C or DT 1770pro are my candidates, or sundaras, or...


----------



## Middy

@Lolito Sorry i cant give you a can suggestion. My Ethers dont do deep Bass or affordable ☹.
As your 2 weeks in 320 hours.. ish.
Did you notice any burn in, i know others may have but i am always interested what people think..


----------



## nekky

Middy said:


> @Lolito Sorry i cant give you a can suggestion. My Ethers dont do deep Bass or affordable ☹.
> As your 2 weeks in 320 hours.. ish.
> Did you notice any burn in, i know others may have but i am always interested what people think..


There was burn in for me for certain. I think most will agree.


----------



## nekky

Lolito said:


> Mine 2 weeks old now, always on, did not burned in anything, just left it always on. This thing really sounds well and pleasant. I like to eq a bit the HD6xx, give it some bass kick, but with this amp i can also enjoy it so much with no eq, the xumb is still there. Now I just need an affordable bassy cans, that I am missing. Audeze LCD 2C or DT 1770pro are my candidates, or sundaras, or...


I would look at the LCD 2C as long as you’re ok with something heavy. Just got my LCD-XC and they sound great.


----------



## Lolito

Middy said:


> @Lolito Sorry i cant give you a can suggestion. My Ethers dont do deep Bass or affordable ☹.
> As your 2 weeks in 320 hours.. ish.
> Did you notice any burn in, i know others may have but i am always interested what people think..


I can tell you what I felt, if it's real or it's my head, or my ears getting used, I really don't know, but I noticed that they now sound better, at the beginning i noticed it lacked detail compared to jds atom, and background felt not so black, not it changed, feels like a clean black background, sounds like a bit louder, never needed to go high gain really, low gain and single ended can blow my ears already. Bass is there but from first day, i also notice maybe jds atom when playing loud as pre amp, it get a bit sharper on the highs when loud, not here.

I do not enjoy that much that logarithmic pot in low gain i must say, I´m always at 3 to 6 when enjoying music, and there you have to be precise with the finger or you get blown, LOL. The knob with molted surface definitely a must for this amp.

I also noted once when playing sound from cold, sounds a bit harsh, as to be warm to play well and smooth. Tested it with blon 03 iems the other day, all god. 30$ iems, sounds like crap to be honest, but that was the expected. Very sibilant sound compared to a proper hd6xx headphones. Expected.


----------



## Lolito

dc mod, I would like to know what the risks are and what the benefits are. my dac psu is 5V, not sure how that can create any damage, but I know nothing john snow.


----------



## Middy

@Lolito Thank you thats fantastic. Thermal stability is always better in a lot of amps than from cold. There are a few  big capacitors in there that form quickly but do seem to take time to settle..  and get use to the sound. ( old arguments).
If i followed the test correctly, i got no change from measuring the RCA out.
I measured a low 5V DC power supply just to make sure i was doing it right. 
Then turned it down and measured the RCA. All seemed good  no Volts.. But trying old headphones seems sensible.

I am impatient and will probably try the fuse and DC mod before the burn in period...

I keep my reviews simple now... is it different to what i have and do i like it.

Subjective is the largest part of enjoying this hobby,  Headfi wouldn't exist and be one giant graph... or ASR without the snark lol 😋.
Its all part of the experience, like life..

Silly fact... the pattern diamond or otherwise is called knurling on the volume knobs. And more knobs here than a pornhub search...😁
Anyone trained on a lathe has done this and shown thier mum.... Their Knurling that is...

"Knurling - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knurling

Keep smiling
Dave


----------



## Muataz

Lolito said:


> dc mod, I would like to know what the risks are and what the benefits are. my dac psu is 5V, not sure how that can create any damage, but I know nothing john snow.


Your DAC E30 is well engineer and I think no risk


----------



## nekky

Middy said:


> @Lolito Thank you thats fantastic. Thermal stability is always better in a lot of amps than from cold. There are a few  big capacitors in there that form quickly but do seem to take time to settle..  and get use to the sound. ( old arguments).
> If i followed the test correctly, i got no change from measuring the RCA out.
> I measured a low 5V DC power supply just to make sure i was doing it right.
> Then turned it down and measured the RCA. All seemed good  no Volts.. But trying old headphones seems sensible.
> ...


I know knurling from the car biz but rarely use the word as no one knows what it is.. but my knurled knob is on way


----------



## Middy

I may order one a couple look ok and as people said the one supplied is awful and in need of finer control.
I am sure someone mentioned issues with the back..  try lapping it.

An old mirror...wet and dry paper..

Wet mirror place wet and dry sand paper.  Wet top of sand paper. Place on middle and do a figure of eight pattern rubbing  down the back face until flat of desired size..  you could also find some thin plastic draw around the 2 holes and cut it out then glue on the back as a low friction washer.

If the hole is to big for the spindle then tin foil a couple of wraps can help centralize it better... or more..

Not that you need this level but the basics if your volume knob is rough..

"How to Lap a Heatsink Guide - Overclockers Club" https://www.overclockersclub.com/guides/lapping/


----------



## sparkfuzz

Lolito said:


> I can tell you what I felt, if it's real or it's my head, or my ears getting used, I really don't know, but I noticed that they now sound better, at the beginning i noticed it lacked detail compared to jds atom, and background felt not so black, not it changed, feels like a clean black background, sounds like a bit louder, never needed to go high gain really, low gain and single ended can blow my ears already. Bass is there but from first day, i also notice maybe jds atom when playing loud as pre amp, it get a bit sharper on the highs when loud, not here.
> 
> I do not enjoy that much that logarithmic pot in low gain i must say, I´m always at 3 to 6 when enjoying music, and there you have to be precise with the finger or you get blown, LOL. The knob with molted surface definitely a must for this amp.
> 
> I also noted once when playing sound from cold, sounds a bit harsh, as to be warm to play well and smooth. Tested it with blon 03 iems the other day, all god. 30$ iems, sounds like crap to be honest, but that was the expected. Very sibilant sound compared to a proper hd6xx headphones. Expected.


I agree and have noticed from 3:00 to 6:00 there's definitely an exponential increase in the sound you got to be careful


----------



## sparkfuzz

One thing I will say is the volume knob is firm when you turn it but I actually prefer this. I have no problems slowly turning the knob to get the volume I desire, especially with the three to six exponential increase in sound


----------



## quawn0418

sparkfuzz said:


> I agree and have noticed from 3:00 to 6:00 there's definitely an exponential increase in the sound you got to be careful


Up until 3 o clock allows for really precise volumes, we have to remember that most cans aren’t that hard to drive, so a lot of people won’t need 3 o clock, I can understand why they went that route


----------



## Lolito

Muataz said:


> Your DAC E30 is well engineer and I think no risk


Topping is not well engineer. In fact, in the first units the polarity was inverted, it was flipped. The opposite of good engineering. It is good price and good sound for the price, but...


----------



## domiji

Lolito said:


> Topping is not well engineer. In fact, in the first units the polarity was inverted, it was flipped. The opposite of good engineering. It is good price and good sound for the price, but...



If you may have a multimeter you can mesaure the DC output of the E30.


----------



## Lolito

I understand, but if the DAC uses 5V, what are the possible damages? 5V PSU can create any DC output that can cause damage? because if the answer to this is NO, there is no need to measure anything, correct? most simple logic ever.


----------



## Lolito

domiji said:


> If you may have a multimeter you can mesaure the DC output of the E30.


I do have a good multimeter here, I just don't know how to measure that thing or where or how, but multimeter I have it here.


----------



## domiji

This tutorial Should work fine  

https://www.wikihow.com/Measure-DC-Offset


----------



## Alex May

Lolito said:


> I understand, but if the DAC uses 5V, what are the possible damages? 5V PSU can create any DC output that can cause damage?


Yes, because the amp will amplify the signal to the whooping 6.5 Watts. It's not the amp you should worry about. It's your headphones that might be ruined. If a headphone is solid enough, it will survive, but it will certainly distort. Focal Elex will be dead immediately due to the most fragile coil in the world. DC at 6 Watts will displace the membrane to the extreme. Any planars might be easily damaged. Anything that has more or less fragile membrane or coil.


----------



## Lolito (May 10, 2021)

I see. A failure or something that happened with my jds atom amp broke a 70ohm sennheiser driver. Same amp, with same problem, with a cheap iem, the driver burnt immediately and smelt to burnt. But this was due to amp failure.


----------



## kdub

Have you guys watched this?


----------



## Lolito (May 11, 2021)

kdub said:


> Have you guys watched this?



I was gonna post it, did not watch it yet.


----------



## kdub

Lolito said:


> I was gonna post it, did not watched it yet.


great comparison between Burson Soloist 3XP, SA-1 and Jot 2.


----------



## joseG86

kdub said:


> great comparison between Burson Soloist 3XP, SA-1 and Jot 2.


Loved the video, I really doubt there are much differences between Soloist and SA-1 besides the usage of the Bursons Vivid Op-amps slightly coloring the sound


----------



## kdub

joseG86 said:


> Loved the video, I really doubt there are much differences between Soloist and SA-1 besides the usage of the Bursons Vivid Op-amps slightly coloring the sound


Vs the Soloist 3XP the reviewer said the SA-1 is bit more richer and smoother. Soloist is bit more neutral and analytical. Glad I picked the SA-1 as these were my top choices and I do prefer more rich smooth sounds.


----------



## joseG86

kdub said:


> Vs the Soloist 3XP the reviewer said the SA-1 is bit more richer and smoother. Soloist is bit more neutral and analytical. Glad I picked the SA-1 as these were my top choices and I do prefer more rich smooth sounds.


That is really surprising yeah, Burson should be richer and smoother because of the Vivid op-amps, I have experimented those in my Topping A30 and makes every song funnier and more engaging to listen to, it also produces a fatigue but enjoyable sometimes


----------



## kdub

joseG86 said:


> That is really surprising yeah, Burson should be richer and smoother because of the Vivid op-amps, I have experimented those in my Topping A30 and makes every song funnier and more engaging to listen to, it also produces a fatigue but enjoyable sometimes


the SA-1 is a discrete design with resistors and capacitors. Burson uses op-amps. Not entirely sure of Burson design inside but this might be the reason.


----------



## Lolito

I've been using the SA-1 with SE cable only, ordered a balanced cable, looking forward to get it to be able to enjoy that other step up. This australian guy makes very good reviews always, very detailed and he doesn't miss anything. Just he said the build is standard, nothing remarkable... the build is quite solid compared to others of similar price or lower. Much beefier. Doesn't mention the heat or burn in time or time from turning it on to perform well.

He says Burson is more life like, more tridimensional, or more depth to the sound. And then also more resolving, and I think he doesn't mean that Burson is more clinical like A90, but that SA-1 loses a tiny bit of detail, and depth of sound, just a bit, but gets that richness, lush, class A sound, warmish, little tiny bit of reverb. I think that is what he means.


----------



## Middy

I am about 4 hours in and trying to zone into the sound.... wider left right field than my Gilmore. Using the simple  TMB analogy feel more 25% 30% 45% ish weighted in my thoughts so far.
Treble not biting, mids smooth,  A1 vocals from power on, detailed but the Bass deep but a little over powering ATM and a little bleed into the mids. 
Unfair as an early comparison but what i am finding going  through Electronics/ brain burn in.... and may help others as they get thiers..  in there initial impressions.. 

So far better than my Gilmore in many aspects and like it but hope it balances out more on time but any thing under 200 hours in  normally doesn't count. Especially as you guys have told me to expect more to come..

Thank you all on here so far for your help advice and views.
Really appreciated 😁

Chord Qutest 
Dan Clarks Ethers 2
Nord streamer
Many custom power add ons

David


----------



## Loquah

joseG86 said:


> That is really surprising yeah, Burson should be richer and smoother because of the Vivid op-amps, I have experimented those in my Topping A30 and makes every song funnier and more engaging to listen to, it also produces a fatigue but enjoyable sometimes



The V6 Vivids are quite clean in a clean system. It's often the volume pot that smooths out or warms up the sound in a lot of amps/pre-amps. Case in point the Composer vs Soloist. The Soloist's volume control is insanely transparent and it really helps improve the insight into the music.



kdub said:


> the SA-1 is a discrete design with resistors and capacitors. Burson uses op-amps. Not entirely sure of Burson design inside but this might be the reason.


Burson op-amps are actually discrete (V6s at least, V5s are a hybrid) so the Soloist is also a fully discrete, Class A (I think) headphone amp.

Both the SA-1 and Soloist are excellent - really depends on what you're looking for and listening with as to which will be preferred, but I do think the Soloist is technically superior.


----------



## Lolito (May 12, 2021)

Hey Lachlan, you are #1 already, so why try harder?


----------



## Middy (May 12, 2021)

A notice for any Chord Qutest owners, even though i did a check (i think i did it right) i got hold of Chord support to double check and there isn't any chance of DC offset on the RCA out.
"Alot of work went into making sure it didn't".. So the Bypass bridging jumpers mod is ok.

Free SQ for all yerrr 🥳🥳🥳🍺🎈🎈

The same should be done for your DAC supplier if in any doubt...

Good luck

Dave🙂👍


----------



## Loquah

Lolito said:


> Hey Lachlan, you are #1 already, so why try harder?


Always looking to learn and improve, Lolito 🙂


----------



## quawn0418

Loquah said:


> Always looking to learn and improve, Lolito 🙂


Really good and in depth review, I’ve seen quite a few of your reviews, really nice stuff brother.


----------



## Lolito

Loquah said:


> Always looking to learn and improve, Lolito 🙂


Ok


----------



## Loquah

Lolito said:


> Ok



Damn, thought I'd scrubbed that photo of me from the internet...


----------



## J Mirra

Loquah said:


> Always looking to learn and improve, Lolito 🙂


Loquah in your video you mention even if you use RCA from your DAC to the SA-1 the sound quality is the same as XLR in.
Does the RCA go on to use the balanced internals of the amp?

I am using single ended cable on my HD800 from what you say I would benefit from using an XLR cable even though I am using RCA from my RCA only DAC.

I am thinking about doing this now, can you or anyone else that is in my situation tell me how much difference I am likely to hear, thank you.


----------



## Middy (May 13, 2021)

Loquah said:


> Damn, thought I'd scrubbed that photo of me from the internet...


I see what you mean about the Z switch.. But while you're here thanks for your work. Anyone adding to the community and creating extra perspective is a lovely thing. Just hope you have fun doing it.

I saw the Sparkos OP amps researching and I wondered if they could work here in the singxer, with effort...Bursons seem for flavour, was thinking Sparkos if they add detail.
Not a simple mod in a singxer as SMT.
Working in electronics theres characteristics the Chinese engineers chose for their TI op amps. But thats later...and a Mr sparko conversation. Wishing i could end game off his Headamp..$$$$

A day + in the units starting to dial in.

Shame you never tried the jumper mod... but you can only judge a virgin unit for a fair comparison...

Good luck and keep up the good work..

Dave


----------



## Alex May

J Mirra said:


> Does the RCA go on to use the balanced internals of the amp?
> 
> I am using single ended cable on my HD800 from what you say I would benefit from using an XLR cable even though I am using RCA from my RCA only DAC.
> 
> I am thinking about doing this now, can you or anyone else that is in my situation tell me how much difference I am likely to hear, thank you.


Yes, RCA do use the balanced internals of the amp. Zeos talked about that in his review of the SA-1, specifically at 14:20. He expressed his belief that there is no appreciable difference between a balanced and unbalanced connection from the DAC if the amp itself has a balanced architecture anyway. Especially if the cables are short and of good quality. He didn't hear the difference in his system. But some people here actually can... unless it's some placebo effect. If you listen in your HD800 or Arya, you probably can distinguish a better channel separation if your DAC is balanced. I guess it depends on your configuration where hundreds of factors may or may not create that difference. If you can buy a balanced outputting DAC, why not. If you can't, don't stress about that.


----------



## J Mirra

Alex May said:


> Yes, RCA do use the balanced internals of the amp. Zeos talked about that in his review of the SA-1, specifically at 14:20. He expressed his belief that there is no appreciable difference between a balanced and unbalanced connection from the DAC if the amp itself has a balanced architecture anyway. Especially if the cables are short and of good quality. He didn't hear the difference in his system. But some people here actually can... unless it's some placebo effect. If you listen in your HD800 or Arya, you probably can distinguish a better channel separation if your DAC is balanced. I guess it depends on your configuration where hundreds of factors may or may not create that difference. If you can buy a balanced outputting DAC, why not. If you can't, don't stress about that.


I will probably buy an XLR for my HD800, thank you for letting me know.


----------



## Middy

Mine just felt a little louder, but ones an OEM 6.3mm the other a custom with 4pin xlr. Let us all know what you think if you do on those lovely cans you have..🙂


----------



## J Mirra

Middy said:


> Mine just felt a little louder, but ones an OEM 6.3mm the other a custom with 4pin xlr. Let us all know what you think if you do on those lovely cans you have..🙂


In Loquah video he mentions the a wider width in the sound stage, better clarity, separation etc when using XLR to the headphones.
Do you not find that at all Middy? only a loudness difference you mention there.


----------



## Loquah

Middy said:


> I see what you mean about the Z switch.. But while you're here thanks for your work. Anyone adding to the community and creating extra perspective is a lovely thing. Just hope you have fun doing it.
> 
> I saw the Sparkos OP amps researching and I wondered if they could work here in the singxer, with effort...Bursons seem for flavour, was thinking Sparkos if they add detail.
> Not a simple mod in a singxer as SMT.
> ...



Thanks Dave!

I don't know if the SA-1 uses any op-amps - it shouldn't because it's a discrete design based on the marketing I think.

I will come back around at some point to try the jumper mod I expect


----------



## joseG86

Loquah said:


> Thanks Dave!
> 
> I don't know if the SA-1 uses any op-amps - it shouldn't because it's a discrete design based on the marketing I think.
> 
> I will come back around at some point to try the jumper mod I expect


Please do try the DC mode


----------



## Middy (May 13, 2021)

J Mirra said:


> In Loquah video he mentions the a wider width in the sound stage, better clarity, separation etc when using XLR to the headphones.
> Do you not find that at all Middy? only a loudness difference you mention there.


I am still burning in not even 2 days new but that was my original thought on a quick test after i saw that excellent review... i had the 4 pin xlr from my old OPPO ha1 4 amps ago..

I cant yet say for sure as a recommendation... even at the best of times... i just post with thoughts and hope it helps people or confirm thier thoughts.  My SA1 is changing and still sounds a little wonky as its settling and me learning its secrets.  I am the opposite of an expert just helpful..
If you can afford a custom anyway and keeping the 800 then only you can know if it was worth it.. The trap we are all in but some lucky reviewers who can play with lots of kit...
Ill try again to see if it makes a difference and not just the increased loudness to my ears... swapping My Ether Hirose cables.

Hopefully others have both on thier headphones and can comment

Cheers and apologies 
Dave


----------



## quawn0418 (May 13, 2021)

J Mirra said:


> Loquah in your video you mention even if you use RCA from your DAC to the SA-1 the sound quality is the same as XLR in.
> Does the RCA go on to use the balanced internals of the amp?
> 
> I am using single ended cable on my HD800 from what you say I would benefit from using an XLR cable even though I am using RCA from my RCA only DAC.
> ...


There is a difference, and it’s not placebo...I think he meant that the gain is equal, so the volume is identical, but the fidelity is definitely different. And yes maybe only some can hear it, maybe it depends on your cans, but when I run my rme adi 2 dac both balanced and rca into my sa-1 and continuously toggle the input switch from xlr to rca using the Arya’s I notice a difference. The balanced input is better, is it much better??? Ofcorse not, but it is indeed better and it’s fairly easy to notice.


----------



## Alex May

quawn0418 said:


> ...but when I run my rme adi 2 dac both balanced and rca into my sa-1 and continuously toggle the input switch from xlr to rca using the Arya’s I notice a difference. The balanced input is better, is it much better??? Ofcorse not, but it is indeed better and it’s fairly easy to notice.


Yeah I agree. Sometimes this difference is very pronounced, therefore it becomes noticeable whether you connect your DAC via balanced or unbalanced connection. But again, it depends on so many factors that will specify whether a person will hear that difference or not. Even if we take two equally sensitive and/or trained pairs of ears. Arya, as I said, will probably present you this difference more or less effortlessly between a balanced and unbalanced DAC output. The more EMI gets in and/or being produced inside your house, the more distinctively you will hear the difference between a balanced and non-balanced connection (simply because RCA will catch more of this electromagnetic interference whereas XLR will eliminate it). Similarly, the quality of the cables, the length of the cables, their shielding, the input and output circuit characteristics of your DAC+amp and how they match together - these and hundreds more factors will influence your perception of the difference in sound quality between balanced and non-balanced DAC+amp connection.

I'll describe my situation. I live in a "bunker" where I can barely use my cell phone. Our mains in the condominium is of really high quality. And I also use RCA cables of one particular brand with such a high quality that they would never catch any interference whatsoever. Sometimes I have a hard time trying to bend my RCA cables because they are so thicc. I struggle a lot when trying to distinguish any difference when switching between XLR and RCA input from my SMSL SU9. Even if there is any difference, it's so negligible. I tried listening with Ananda, Arya, LCD-X. As I mentioned, Zeos also didn't hear any appreciable difference between balanced and non-balanced connections from Loxjie D50 to his SA-1. Of course, there IS a difference, at least due to the separated ground, hence slightly better channel separation on input, even if the RCA signal is almost as clear as the XLR. But in a configuration close to ideal, it becomes almost impossible to distinguish that difference even in Arya. The amp itself gives you much more distinguishable difference upon processing the sound with its balanced architecture. Hence:


J Mirra said:


> wider width in the sound stage, better clarity, separation etc when using XLR to the headphones.


Therefore, it becomes much more important to connect your headphones to the balanced output of the amp rather than connecting your DAC to the amp via XLR. Of course, if you can, then do it. It's certainly better. I just pointed out that it's not worth worrying about and stressing hard to buy a balanced DAC when using SA-1, if a person doesn't have a balanced DAC.


----------



## Fly2High (May 13, 2021)

when you talk of switching cables, are you talking about the input cables from the DAC or the output cables to the headphones.

I have a set of WBC Gotham RCA and WBC Mogami XLR and at first, I thought I heard the Mogami have better even sound while the Gotham sounded less bright and slightly more warm with more bass.  I have a feeling things have changed now.  I have a feeling that things have broken in and now I have a very hard time differentiating them in most songs.  It could just be that I was breaking the amp in using the XLR mostly and those (or the internal balanced parts) settled first.  Now the RCA has.

Not sure myself anymore.  If there is a difference between input cables, it is only with certain songs and very slight for me.

Then again, I am waiting for a balanced cable to come in and I only have Sundara on SE so all of that may factor into my ability to discern as well.  Of course, being a novice has nothing to do with it  .


----------



## nekky

Fly2High said:


> when you talk of switching cables, are you talking about the input cables from the DAC or the output cables to the headphones.
> 
> I have a set of WBC Gotham RCA and WBC Mogami XLR and at first, I thought I heard the Mogami have better even sound while the Gotham sounded less bright and slightly more warm with more bass.  I have a feeling things have changed now.  I have a feeling that things have broken in and now I have a very hard time differentiating them in most songs.  It could just be that I was breaking the amp in using the XLR mostly and those (or the internal balanced parts) settled first.  Now the RCA has.
> 
> ...


You run Sandaras on SE via the SA-1? How much do you feel you are leaving on the table not running them through a speaker amp?


----------



## Fly2High

nekky said:


> You run Sandaras on SE via the SA-1? How much do you feel you are leaving on the table not running them through a speaker amp?


The only speaker amp I have is a 1990 Onkyo TX SV90 Pro AV receiver.  That said, it was a $1100 receiver back in '90.  I have not had the chance to compare them side by side and am only going on recollection.  Also, I was not using the Gustard X16 DAC and only had a Sony Blu-Ray player so my source was not as good.  That said, the X16/SA-1 does better with the Sundara but that could be due to cheap cables and a poor audio source.  I will need to bring the X16 to that receiver and do a better comparison.  That receiver was also only SE.  No balanced connectors on it .  Not sure we even had XLR back in '90 or if they were available if they had trickled down to the general market stuff.


----------



## Lolito

Do you eq te sundaras? if not, don't you miss bass? I am thinking on purchasing a Sundara, but the lack of bass pulls me back. I want bassy cans!!


----------



## nekky

Fly2High said:


> The only speaker amp I have is a 1990 Onkyo TX SV90 Pro AV receiver.  That said, it was a $1100 receiver back in '90.  I have not had the chance to compare them side by side and am only going on recollection.  Also, I was not using the Gustard X16 DAC and only had a Sony Blu-Ray player so my source was not as good.  That said, the X16/SA-1 does better with the Sundara but that could be due to cheap cables and a poor audio source.  I will need to bring the X16 to that receiver and do a better comparison.  That receiver was also only SE.  No balanced connectors on it .  Not sure we even had XLR back in '90 or if they were available if they had trickled down to the general market stuff.


My bad man, I had Susvara on the brain, totally wrong set of cans. Sorry!


----------



## Kafé

Singxer SA-1 Review (Balanced Headphone Amp) :

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...xer-sa-1-review-balanced-headphone-amp.23365/


----------



## Jay_vs

Kafé said:


> Singxer SA-1 Review (Balanced Headphone Amp) :
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...xer-sa-1-review-balanced-headphone-amp.23365/


----------



## Middy (May 13, 2021)

Loquah said:


> Thanks Dave!
> 
> I don't know if the SA-1 uses any op-amps - it shouldn't because it's a discrete design based on the marketing I think.
> 
> I will come back around at some point to try the jumper mod I expect


One of the guys photographed 2 TI dual op amps smt near the volume pot and DC protection circuit. It will be tight and some work but maybe doable. Not nice removable ones but i can solder with wire or SMT riser. More a thought but i can only blame you.. for such a good review..🙂👍.
Ill have to talk to Mr Sparko first... as a future project...  only if it adds to the SQ.. But the ideas there... if as you say possible or not
Thanks for taking the time to respond

Kind regards

Dave


----------



## Middy

Kafé said:


> Singxer SA-1 Review (Balanced Headphone Amp) :
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...xer-sa-1-review-balanced-headphone-amp.23365/


Hi praise from ASR,  more meat for the Singxer story.. thank you for the link🙂


----------



## Fly2High (May 13, 2021)

Lolito said:


> Do you eq te sundaras? if not, don't you miss bass? I am thinking on purchasing a Sundara, but the lack of bass pulls me back. I want bassy cans!!


I do not have much to compare to and am new to the hobby.  This may be a little exaggerated but foe me, this is just so much better than what I have heard.  That includes many floor standing speaker but I have limited exposure there too. That said, I find the Sundara have tight bass but it is not moving.  I do not get that rumble bassier cans get.  Now, I love that they go lower than just about everything I have experienced which is mostly cheap stuff.  I love that I can make out all the bass guitar tones and really have a good sense of the effort an electric or string bass player does.  Before, that bass sound just felt monotone or real simple.  Having played a violin in my younger years, I love hearing the change in 'thwang' of a string bass and how the note changes as it slows its vibration.  Couldn't hear that before.  Now, it is blatant.  Jazz and classical has new life.  Rock, when well recorded, has more detail.  Same improved detail I find all throughout the range.  Again, these are my first planars and am enjoying critical listening.  Sure, I love deep emotional, body shocking bass too but these are not for that purpose.  These give me clarity.  The bass is good but not body jolting in the least.  So many songs now became more detailed and for that I love them.  I will use Foobar2000 with some bass turned up when I just have to have more feel but it never reaches what a good floor standing speaker a with a sub can do.  When I turn up the bass, I seem to need to turn up the treble too.  More bass EQ seems to make the HP sound like they have muted highs.  I enjoy the sparkle of cymbals, xylophone and tambourine.  Bells ring more like real bells.  These HP are like the difference between old 80's computer music and listening to live.  It is not just about hitting the tones but the change in tone as the artist moves, changes blow pressure or bow speed and direction.  I love listening again to violins and hearing the bow direction.  Again, I have not experienced more expensive than this.  they would be out of my budget. 

I also feel as if the drums and other percussion have moved closer to the mic while the bass guitar sounds a step or two further back.  I can really make out the sound or each drum it, various tines of a brush on a cymbal and the sound of the drum skin stretch and the sound change as it decays.

What do you want the headphones for?  If you are looking for deep body rocking emotional bass, look elsewhere. 

If you want enough bass but be able to hear all the articulations of the instrument and the subtleness of the artist, these will start you on that journey.  I 'hear' there are better still but the dollar goes way up.   Sundara is, in my opinion, a good starting headphone to embark on a journey to enjoy critical listening. 

I have found that music has more to offer than just emotions and body shaking bass because of these.  It is good to shed new light on what I thought was gone from my life.  These allow me to re-experience all the songs I love all over again.

Well, that at least is my interpretation.


----------



## Kafé

*Soundnews*: Singxer SA-1 Class-A Headphone Amplifier Review

https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/singxer-sa-1-class-a-headphone-amplifier-review/


----------



## Middy (May 14, 2021)

Thanks @Kafé  Google Guru 👍🙂

Never realised..
Singxer Amplifier 1 or SA-1


----------



## Lolito

Fly2High said:


> I do not have much to compare to and am new to the hobby.  This may be a little exaggerated but foe me, this is just so much better than what I have heard.  That includes many floor standing speaker but I have limited exposure there too. That said, I find the Sundara have tight bass but it is not moving.  I do not get that rumble bassier cans get.  Now, I love that they go lower than just about everything I have experienced which is mostly cheap stuff.  I love that I can make out all the bass guitar tones and really have a good sense of the effort an electric or string bass player does.  Before, that bass sound just felt monotone or real simple.  Having played a violin in my younger years, I love hearing the change in 'thwang' of a string bass and how the note changes as it slows its vibration.  Couldn't hear that before.  Now, it is blatant.  Jazz and classical has new life.  Rock, when well recorded, has more detail.  Same improved detail I find all throughout the range.  Again, these are my first planars and am enjoying critical listening.  Sure, I love deep emotional, body shocking bass too but these are not for that purpose.  These give me clarity.  The bass is good but not body jolting in the least.  So many songs now became more detailed and for that I love them.  I will use Foobar2000 with some bass turned up when I just have to have more feel but it never reaches what a good floor standing speaker a with a sub can do.  When I turn up the bass, I seem to need to turn up the treble too.  More bass EQ seems to make the HP sound like they have muted highs.  I enjoy the sparkle of cymbals, xylophone and tambourine.  Bells ring more like real bells.  These HP are like the difference between old 80's computer music and listening to live.  It is not just about hitting the tones but the change in tone as the artist moves, changes blow pressure or bow speed and direction.  I love listening again to violins and hearing the bow direction.  Again, I have not experienced more expensive than this.  they would be out of my budget.
> 
> I also feel as if the drums and other percussion have moved closer to the mic while the bass guitar sounds a step or two further back.  I can really make out the sound or each drum it, various tines of a brush on a cymbal and the sound of the drum skin stretch and the sound change as it decays.
> 
> ...


Very good story, thank you. Still, I want Bass. And you too,


----------



## Lolito

Kafé said:


> *Soundnews*: Singxer SA-1 Class-A Headphone Amplifier Review
> 
> https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/singxer-sa-1-class-a-headphone-amplifier-review/


this guy is less informative than zeos, and then more boring and more full of nothing


----------



## joseG86 (May 14, 2021)

I don't find Zeos particularly informative lol, it's more a hype-free maker than anything else imho


----------



## domiji

I like Sandu 👍🏻


----------



## kdub

Another review. This time from Soundnews. Watched a few of his previous reviews and like his work.


----------



## Lolito

This guy is boring and comments things no one really bothers. Also, what the hell is the deal with always talking about how much powerful is a headphone amp?? it's for headphones, it is 100 times less powerful than speaker amp. It is extremely easy to make a powerful headphone amp. Susvara users know what they need already anyways. Boring.


----------



## domiji

kdub said:


> Another review. This time from Soundnews. Watched a few of his previous reviews and like his work.



Absolutely. I think he does great reviews with focus on things that not every reviewer does...


----------



## Middy

J Mirra said:


> I will probably buy an XLR for my HD800, thank you for letting me know.


I had a play with both SE and XLR. I can't properly volume match just try and match the volume as best i can.

My unit started to stabilise now so..

Dan Clarks Ether 2 have Fast change Hirose connects but it does take 30 seconds +  to swap cables. From Dans premium SE 6.35mm to the custom XLR from Forza Noir a few years old..

As best i can tell with my equipment and ears..yes.  not a simple sideways extension more circular in shape and a touch more width/ diameter 🙂.  Id say the layering is also a touch better.

Take this with a pinch of salt but ill  be keeping the XLRs in my case.

Custom cable makers Charge premium but there should be more off the shelf options for Senns.

I hope this helps my friend

David 🙂👍


----------



## Middy

A few days in my and my unit is started to settle. I added custom fuse but even before the first thing i thought was what have i done.. i have to send this back. Everything sounded wrong compressed and the opposite of all the descriptions here. 
Bass sound coming upward next to my ears, drowing out the mids and highs fighting the bass from the top down. Like someone had taken a speaker apart and put it in wrong directions.
Thank god thats ok now, i am getting so much more separation width and spatial cues all the good stuff...insert trope here...

Is it better than i had ..yes do i like it so far yes.... my EDM sounds a touch bass heavy and missing a bit of extra high frequency sparkle. Judging from the reviews and thoughts here is about  right. My cans are mid range experts and the SA1 is smooth.

As i said early days, i could only find one jumper  to try the mod so still waiting for my Chinese delivery.

Ive another week before i can really make an informed decision.... i put the new Justin bieber song on for the wife as its here new favourite and got the thumbs up as it sound right.... Who needs youtube experts huh..

I hope theres more to come with the SA1 as it settles in more, i am really liking it so far and  happy i bought it. Not a semi hyped flavour of the month but a solid purchase i can live with for a few years. 

Apologies i do ramble on too much but try and add back to the community thats helped me so many times...  

Random guy
Dave 🙂


----------



## aravaioli (May 15, 2021)

Got mine today with the usual fast and excellent service from Shenzhenaudio.

I am rather puzzled by the volume. In high gain, low Z and XLR in from my SU-9 mode the wheel needs to be at 4 o'clock position with my Arya (balanced) and 3 for ADX5000 (unbalanced) and I do not listen that loud. The Violectric V200 which this was meant to replace had to be at 12 position. At 1 o'clock would be already too much.

Is that possible?


----------



## Lolito

aravaioli said:


> Got mine today with the usual fast and excellent service from Shenzhenaudio.
> 
> I am rather puzzled by the volume. In high gain, low Z and XLR in from my SU-9 mode the wheel needs to be at 4 o'clock position and I do not listen that loud. The Violectric V200 which this was meant to replace had to be at 12 position. At 1 o'clock would be already too much.
> 
> Is that possible?


Yes, the pot is very exponential. If you want loud, you have to go 3 o'clock minimum.


----------



## Alex May

aravaioli said:


> Got mine today with the usual fast and excellent service from Shenzhenaudio.
> 
> I am rather puzzled by the volume. In high gain, low Z and XLR in from my SU-9 mode the wheel needs to be at 4 o'clock position with my Arya (balanced) and 3 for ADX5000 (unbalanced) and I do not listen that loud. The Violectric V200 which this was meant to replace had to be at 12 position. At 1 o'clock would be already too much.
> 
> Is that possible?


Yes, it's a normal condition on arrival. Now you'll have to burn it in for several days. And then it will get louder. joseG86 already talked about it here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-16319349


----------



## nekky

It will get louder, yes.


----------



## Lolito

It gets louder if you change from SE headphone to the same headphone with a balanced cable, then i gets very louder. Then, it doesnt get much louder really, you get used to the pot, you crank it more because it is a very very exponential pot. So if you compare it with another amp with the exact same power and DB at max, if you volume mathc, this one would be at 3 when the other would be at 12... but again, at 6 o´clock they would be the same... very exponential pot. Passion for sound explained it very very well on his video.


----------



## Middy (May 15, 2021)

But better? 😁 Thats a loose term.. but cant wait for that 170 hour.. mark.. But i cant seem to get the volume right so far always a tad quiet or loud..


----------



## aravaioli

Thanks for the encouraging replies. It must be the first amplifier I owned where the usable volume starts at 75-80% which sound paradoxical being also the most powerful of them.


----------



## equalspeace

I feel like this amp has been designed to get full sound at lower volumes. People are used to having to get fuller sound at higher volumes, thus this quality from the SA-1 takes some getting used to.

I absolutely loved the sound from the SA-1 out of the box. Good to know it should get much better.


----------



## Jay_vs

equalspeace said:


> I feel like this amp has been designed to get full sound at lower volumes. People are used to having to get fuller sound at higher volumes, thus this quality from the SA-1 takes some getting used to.
> 
> I absolutely loved the sound from the SA-1 out of the box. Good to know it should get much better.


Totally agree with you. I'm listening at much lower volume than I used to. the sound is full and satisfying even at lower level. Does take some getting used to. It most certainly has got louder also.


----------



## quawn0418

equalspeace said:


> I feel like this amp has been designed to get full sound at lower volumes. People are used to having to get fuller sound at higher volumes, thus this quality from the SA-1 takes some getting used to.
> 
> I absolutely loved the sound from the SA-1 out of the box. Good to know it should get much better.


Agreed, really impressive. I don’t feel the need to crank it up, i get everything I need at lower volumes compared to other amps Ive had/tried.


----------



## nekky

What’s impressive is being able to go up and up and the sound just gets better and fuller without damaging your ear holes. It takes harshness away from my very forward pair of Elegias - YNMV.


----------



## Jay_vs

nekky said:


> What’s impressive is being able to go up and up and the sound just gets better and fuller without damaging your ear holes. It takes harshness away from my very forward pair of Elegias - YNMV.


Stick on The Island pt2 by Pendulum and crank it up. It's insane lol


----------



## Lolito

Try:

Starway to Heaven - Led Zeppelin

2 minutes from the end


----------



## Pharmaboy (May 15, 2021)

Middy said:


> I see what you mean about the Z switch.. But while you're here thanks for your work. Anyone adding to the community and creating extra perspective is a lovely thing. Just hope you have fun doing it.
> 
> I saw the Sparkos OP amps researching and I wondered if they could work here in the singxer, with effort...Bursons seem for flavour, was thinking Sparkos if they add detail.
> Not a simple mod in a singxer as SMT.
> ...



I used a pair of Sparkos SS3602 opamps in the output board of my V281, which I routinely use as a preamp (opamps in that board only affect the sound of preamp outputs). The V281 is already a very rich & dimensional sounding SS device, but the sound via preamp outputs got just a little better IMO.

I'd heard about Sparkos because this opamp was available as an option in the input board of the Nord stereo class D amp I'm interested in. I read many user & reviewer comments that preferred the Sparkos opamps in that amp over the Sonic Imagery opamps, which to some sounded overly neutral.

So I'm a real fan of Sparkos, and in fact, of quality opamps in general. But I don't see how they could be used in the Singxer, which is designed w/no opamps & no connections for opamps.


----------



## Middy (May 15, 2021)

Pharmaboy said:


> So I'm a real fan of Sparkos, and in fact, of quality opamps in general. But I don't see how they could be used in the Singxer, which is designed w/no opamps & no connections for opamps.


I think you and others are correct and not anywhere in the signal path as i was hoping. I am a skilled monkey with a soldering iron but no EE. Manufacturing only. I dont know if those TI amps can be replaced or to what benefit those 2 next to the DC Protection capacitors Alps pot..

He does an SOIC adapter but it would be tight if it was functionally appropriate or beneficial electrical replacement..  


... i am always looking but rely on professionals for answers. Was going to ask Mr Sparks
People seem to like the Nord with thier ice modules. I only know as i have thier starter streamer.. i put 3 ifi i silencers on the usb bus and got a nice boost. As a Bus filter. I got the same on an intel NUC.. this hobby things start adding up ££££

Thanks for the heads up @Pharmaboy

I got bored and fast ordered jumpers on amazon for sunday... at least i can do a guide for us here, if people want to experiment....

For those who know electrickery
"OPA1612 data sheet, product information and support | TI.com" https://www.ti.com/product/OPA1612


----------



## nekky

Jay_vs said:


> Stick on The Island pt2 by Pendulum and crank it up. It's insane lol


I am a big time Pendulum/Knife Party/Rob Swire fan - already done that long ago


----------



## Pharmaboy

aravaioli said:


> Got mine today with the usual fast and excellent service from Shenzhenaudio.
> 
> I am rather puzzled by the volume. In high gain, low Z and XLR in from my SU-9 mode the wheel needs to be at 4 o'clock position with my Arya (balanced) and 3 for ADX5000 (unbalanced) and I do not listen that loud. The Violectric V200 which this was meant to replace had to be at 12 position. At 1 o'clock would be already too much.
> 
> Is that possible?


Yes, it is. I posted a couple times on this topic earlier this month. Others did, as well. BTW, I'm not an expert in electronics, but I've learned a few things about volume pots in this hobby--because I own/owned many amps, and each amp seems to handle volume attenuation somewhat differently:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...a-beyond-thx-888.952074/page-52#post-16333097

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...a-beyond-thx-888.952074/page-53#post-16333234


----------



## aravaioli (May 16, 2021)

Pharmaboy said:


> Yes, it is. I posted a couple times on this topic earlier this month. Others did, as well. BTW, I'm not an expert in electronics, but I've learned a few things about volume pots in this hobby--because I own/owned many amps, and each amp seems to handle volume attenuation somewhat differently:
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...a-beyond-thx-888.952074/page-52#post-16333097
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...a-beyond-thx-888.952074/page-53#post-16333234


I have now read your informative posts, thank you.

I still do not get the designer choice of opting for an exponential volume pot when so much of the wheel run is doing almost nothing.


----------



## joseG86

aravaioli said:


> I now read your informative posts, thank you.
> 
> I still do not get the designer choice of opting for an exponential volume pot when so much of the wheel run is doing almost nothing.


I guess they had in mind IEM users/really low impedance as well, I think the design is flawless at the price.


----------



## Pharmaboy (May 16, 2021)

aravaioli said:


> I now read your informative posts, thank you.
> 
> I still do not get the designer choice of opting for an exponential volume pot when so much of the wheel run is doing almost nothing.


I can't read the designer's mind, but my guess for the reason is as follows:

There are more pricey/TOTL headphones around now (incl. planars) that are far more efficient/sensitive/low impedance than ever before
This is a very powerful amp (~6.5 wpc @32 ohms)
So use of a linear volume pot would confine users w/sensitive HPs to a small portion of the pot's range (ie, from ~7:30 to 8:30 on the dial). 
I've had a few powerful amps like that--it's no fun trying to dial in a satisfactory volume when just 1-2mm of additional play of the volume pot can blow your ears off...


----------



## nekky

Anyone have experience with the Hifiman HE6se on the SA-1?


----------



## Lolito

Let's be honest here, this pot is just half good. The exponential effect went too far and a different curve of progression would have been welcome. Nice to get loud at 12 instead of 9, but not 3. It's really too much, por people in low gain, to be honest...


----------



## Middy (May 16, 2021)

Ill do a guide tomorrow but not a fun day so far. Really really really lucky to find a manufacturing fault you can fix yourself as you just voided the warranty doing it.. 

As i just did the jumper mod i thought... hey ill use a touch of Caig dexoit on the pins from the AC socket..
They arent crimped but soldered on... the wire snapped on a little movement and its thick wire.. stripped back and redone correctly and well soldered back in... Bloody hell needed new underpants...
Just thinking i never checked the neutral.. rushing as i have a 3 yold to sort out...

Unit is fine, dont know if the connection was affecting anything..  Jumper mod works fine and £4k of headphones haven't blown up.. Chord support told the truth..

Just a quick update for Jumper mod.. The highs sound more clear as i was hoping just a little to dull before.. Better for me and yes you can notice easy...

Just need a shower....☹💩


David ...


----------



## joseG86

Middy said:


> Ill do a guide tomorrow but not a fun day so far. Really really really lucky to find a manufacturing fault you can fix yourself as you just voided the warranty doing it..
> 
> As i just did the jumper mod i thought... hey ill use a touch of Caig dexoit on the pins from the AC socket..
> They arent crimped but soldered on... the wire snapped on a little movement and its thick wire.. stripped back and redone correctly and well soldered back in... Bloody hell needed new underpants...
> ...


Impressive haha, cheers David!


----------



## Middy (May 17, 2021)

Ok more details to complete the "Jumper Cap  DC  offset  circuit bypass MOD"
3 things to consider:
This is what i did. Get a professional if in any doubt. All your own risk as it was mine..
1. A screw is covered with a tamper proof sticker. So they know you opened the unit voiding the warranty..
2. This circuit is for blocking DC offset. This can damage your headphones.  I contacted my DAC manufacturer prior to trying this and asked.
3. You should be earth grounded with an ESD  earth strap. (Can stop you breaking your AMP Electrostatic discharge kill ICs.) Earthing plugs are cheap as well.....You can leave the cable in but off at plug

Old man warnings out the way...

The MOD is basically done for you.
4 sets of 2 pins require Jumpers to bridge and create a connection.
I bought these and worked great.

10Pcs Jumper Cap Shunts 2.54mm Blue Standard Circuit Board Mini Jumper Cap Connector​AMAZON for speed but easy and cheap.

You will need some small Allen key sets. Imperial i think but no great force needed. Dont force or over tighten later on.
To make life easy, get  some tweezers, i borrowed the wifes eyebrow tweezers as the last 2 are a tight fit..

Turn off unit red switch... turn of at socket but leave in..Why?  ESD STRAP needs a path to earth to remove static build up on you.. That can damage ICs.. No warranty remember.. £7 ESD strap.. safest is no mains cable and esd plug and strap.

Turn the unit over place on something soft.. foam from Packaging works..

You will see 5 small screw heads and a sticker. Thats no 6.
Undo these 6 screws they are long but dont need much to take out..

Turn over and inside you can see by the volume pot 4 green round capacitors these are where the 2 x 4 pins are.

Use your ESD STRAP and ensure its powered off at the wall... better esd wall plug. One to unit one on your wrist..

Use tweezers as its easier and fit the 4 jumper caps. Job done..

Tips: check which way the curved slot is before removing the lid... so you know which around it goes...

Be gentle . Hold lid and AMP in one hand and feel with screw intil in place.. finger tighten only... Any force you might cross thread it.
Repeat on opposite sides but dont tighten yet.

With Allen key just the lightest nip is needed...dont swing on it...

I like Caig Deoxit i added that to the pins.

Please check all the details.

Read about ESD get a plug strap its a tool and cheap.
Electricity is dangerous... comfort zones arent the same as a professional skilled qualified engineer.
"Electrostatic discharge - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_discharge


Enjoy a different detailed sound....

Pics below


----------



## Middy

Final thoughts post DC MOD..

Its really nice and clean-'er' sounding now. Really my personal preference..

Its unfair to say  'dark' but without the DC offset circuit its so much more cleaner not bright but sharper in upper mids and highs. The bass is more in the right place a little . The sound stage in my head seems rounded and this opened up more after. 

Curse all those reviewers for not trying this, Zeos even popped the lid so he could have tried.....

Being the internet its easy to say yes go do this dont worry... some guy from the UK says its great. Warranty is voided can you afford €500.. ?? i checked with a cheap volt meter but only when Chord electronics support said there is no DC offset on my Qutest. So my £2000 phones don't go bang..

You can't say it enough be.. electrical safety aware...

That said it beats my gilmore lite MK2 and Magni 3 in all aspects.. more +++  L-M-H..

Its really good as a virgin under warranty AMP.. 

Sorry i can't compare for you all but hopefully someone who has tried all the midfi brands and higher + can give you a better idea of what this brings to the table and is it worth trying... 

It just not the same Amp....

I wont spam on the thread anymore and just enjoy. But feel free to ask any questions or advice in my limited way i can help with...

Again thanks to all the posters for helping me decide to buy this and general help advice..
Just hope i added a bit more...🙂


Good luck

David


----------



## nekky

Middy said:


> Final thoughts post DC MOD..
> 
> Its really nice and clean-'er' sounding now. Really my personal preference..
> 
> ...


Thank you for your service to our little community sir!


----------



## Middy

That means a lot.. thank you 👍


----------



## Chamade

Anyone with knowledge of DC offset…how likely is this to damage headphones? Does it depend on the DAC used? On the mains electric quality? Grounding?

There must be a very good reason it’s there, especially since it apparently degrades sound quality.


----------



## Lolito

You are already #1 Middy

If more people do the DC mod and nothing explodes in 6 months, I will try it too.


----------



## Middy (May 17, 2021)

Chamade said:


> Anyone with knowledge of DC offset…how likely is this to damage headphones? Does it depend on the DAC used? On the mains electric quality? Grounding?
> 
> There must be a very good reason it’s there, especially since it apparently degrades sound quality.


These are the questions we should ask. Id never forgive myself if something went wrong for people here and people Googling... minimum email your DAC manufacturer.. i only learned this by reading this thread about DC offset by more knowledgeable people..
Its a great amp already...

Why i hate recommendations, i want to help. £480 is a lot to me.. but any doubts dont or wait please... its an option not a necessity... 🙂
Wait until the upgradeitus itch calls..


----------



## domiji

The mod is absolutely worth a try.


Middy said:


> Final thoughts post DC MOD..
> 
> Its really nice and clean-'er' sounding now. Really my personal preference..
> 
> ...


I told you the mod would be very good 😅

To me it feels like releasing the handbrake of this amp 😁


----------



## cobrabucket

Hey y'all. I have one of these in-bound and am excited. After reading the latest about the Jumper Mod, I have a few questions: I use 2 different DACs [Schiit Gumby / Topping D70s] so I would need to contact both to inquire about the DC offset, I guess? How should I word this email, exactly? Not sure that I am even going to do the mod right now. Just want to know in case I do decide to later and want to understand what I need to ask [and more importantly, what it means]. Cheers!


----------



## Middy

Hi @cobrabucket as @domiji says yes i think its a fantastic change and so simple to change back.
But as a member said has the potential to damage headphones. Only from another member saying test first. and you kill your warranty. 
Ill be boring and keep repeating this as i am a nobody rando internet guy... Not an expert, just posted what i did to help...

My email to Chord electronics was just to ask is there any DC offset produced by the DACs  RCA output. Others should ask the same if they use 3 pin XLR also.

Others here if i missed anything out important ? please say and post..

You could try a cheap pair of headphones but you still dont know if some expensive pair wont..  An Amp and and 2k headphones is an expensive experiment.... be sure before. I am glad i had peace of mind first. 
The Amp is on me but my phones are ok..  make sure its turned off at wall unplugged  and used an esd strap and plug..or get an Electronics trained guy to do it... be safe its just an Amp you're health is Infinitely more important my friend..

Good luck
David


----------



## Francisk

Middy said:


> Hi @cobrabucket as @domiji says yes i think its a fantastic change and so simple to change back.
> But as a member said has the potential to damage headphones. Only from another member saying test first. and you kill your warranty.
> Ill be boring and keep repeating this as i am a nobody rando internet guy... Not an expert, just posted what i did to help...
> 
> ...


Middy, it'd be really helpful if you can give us a step by step tutorial so that we can all try the MOD as soon as the warranty expire


----------



## Middy

Francisk said:


> Middy, it'd be really helpful if you can give us a step by step tutorial so that we can all try the MOD as soon as the warranty expire


Lol ring me next April..

Its so good, i only know three people who have tried it including me here, its just so much better.... The guides basically done above.. me working in aerospace electronics wanted to make sure everyone is safe and knows the risks.. cash and safety... 
I am so happy with the sound.... love to hear from more people who have tried it so i am not going crazy....


----------



## Middy

"Singxer SA-1 Review (Balanced Headphone Amp) | Page 9 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum" https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-1-review-balanced-headphone-amp.23365/page-9

Tom Chen the designer doesn't recommend coupling.. But as we have the option we can... later issues wont as this was for testing only.. A new rev pcb probably will not have this option.

Then he needs to keep it and make it sound this good 😁 A great piece of electronics he and his team have designed though..... 👍


----------



## joseG86

Hahahha Topping VS Singxer


----------



## Middy

Lol 🤣


----------



## Chamade

Middy said:


> "Singxer SA-1 Review (Balanced Headphone Amp) | Page 9 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum" https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-1-review-balanced-headphone-amp.23365/page-9
> 
> Tom Chen the designer doesn't recommend coupling.. But as we have the option we can... later issues wont as this was for testing only.. A new rev pcb probably will not have this option.
> 
> Then he needs to keep it and make it sound this good 😁 A great piece of electronics he and his team have designed though..... 👍



The plot thickens...is it possible that what you guys perceive as better sound after the mod, is actually not better, just different and possibly worse?


----------



## TitaniumDust

cobrabucket said:


> Hey y'all. I have one of these in-bound and am excited. After reading the latest about the Jumper Mod, I have a few questions: I use 2 different DACs [Schiit Gumby / Topping D70s] so I would need to contact both to inquire about the DC offset, I guess? How should I word this email, exactly? Not sure that I am even going to do the mod right now. Just want to know in case I do decide to later and want to understand what I need to ask [and more importantly, what it means]. Cheers!


I have a Bifrost 2 and I have already sent the question about DC offset for that DAC.  No response yet.  My wording was:

"I own a Bifrost 2 DAC I purchased directly from your store.  I just bought a new headphone amplifier (Singxer SA-1) and it allows me to very easily bypass the input capacitors which are intended to protect the amp and headphones from DC offset.  Bypassing the caps is done to improve sound quality of the amp.  My question is - has the Bifrost 2 DAC been specifically engineered to prevent DC offset from appearing on either XLR or RCA outputs?  I'm trying to determine if it is safe for me to bypass those amp input capacitors without risking damage to my $1200 headphones."

I don't have any immediate plans for doing the jumper mod myself since I like to take time with the stock unit first.  If more positive feedback comes in, either here or from Schiit directly, that could change in the future.


----------



## Middy (May 18, 2021)

Hey @Chamade

Both are equally valid... Amir can FFT his little socks off and see less or more sub fruit  bat hearing level spikes, doesn't mean better. 100% yes its different... better is 4 jumpers and an Allen key.. only you can decide....
Loosely.. top end warmth is now open and detailed not that slight tubey highs.. IMHO. No idea if bypassing those caps inproves the circuit noise, throws the ciruit out of whack, at the expense of DC coupling. Mr Chen or EEs here might know.
Modern DAC maybe fine or not? A fault in the Amp might do it... it is there for a reason.... 🙂  Not sure by  0.001% dont do it.. easy.. and be happy..... its what i did, not what you should do... That jumper Genie left the bottle long before me...

Thank you though Chamade.. i wish someone definitive can say for god sake noo.. dont or you should be fine don't worry.  I could have posted did it.. like it..
but i worry like an old woman..


----------



## Lolito

Middy said:


> Hi @cobrabucket as @domiji says yes i think its a fantastic change and so simple to change back.
> But as a member said has the potential to damage headphones. Only from another member saying test first. and you kill your warranty.
> Ill be boring and keep repeating this as i am a nobody rando internet guy... Not an expert, just posted what i did to help...
> 
> ...


have you thought about making this mod switchable? I remember zeos mentioning that too; something like bring those pins out, like with extension cables, and be able to put the jumpers in and out but from the outside... maybe with some kind of switch?


----------



## cobrabucket

Did you guys say the Topping D70s is safe to use?


----------



## Middy (May 19, 2021)

Lolito said:


> have you thought about making this mod switchable? I remember zeos mentioning that too; something like bring those pins out, like with extension cables, and be able to put the jumpers in and out but from the outside... maybe with some kind of switch?


It could be doable cut cutting a hole in the case 8 wires split on a 2 pole switch..  i am happy as it is... The cat is out the bag by taking the lid off anyway... Good for A\B ing  sound like a secondary review.. Yes Mr Zeos looking at you..🙂👍. but the same issues apply for DC coupling risks....
Good idea..


----------



## cobrabucket

Here's the Reply to the email I sent Topping:
"Dear Sir/Madam
Thank you for contacting TOPPING support. We are happy to assist.
Bypassing the cap is not recommended by their designer. Although there's no dc offset on d70s. You can certainly do that but any potential damage is warned. 
Best Regards"
So it looks like the D70s is all good. I still haven't heard back from Schiit though...


----------



## joseG86

I'm sure DC mode is 100% worth it, I've got the Kinki THR-1 which is DC coupled and it sounds like I removed a thin veil out of SA-1, like under the effects of magic mushrooms. I wonder if DC mode users can verify this opinion lol


----------



## nottheseapples

Does the DC mod affect warranty?


----------



## Middy

nottheseapples said:


> Does the DC mod affect warranty?


Taking the lid off does.. the 6th screw is under a securty sticker so you can't have a sneeky try...

The fancy term is :
*Caveat emptor *


----------



## Middy

My music play list the very well recorded sound almost holographic with more perceived details super clean. That super smooth sheen unmodded is gone, nice but doesn't let sparkle stand out. Like standing at the door of a concert hall  like strange a EQ  setting but not the terrible software version were you gain and loose. 
Vocals more intimate cymbals drums more realistic.. The poor recordings sound a touch edgy but if thats the real version so be it..
@joseG86  If that helps??)

All very nice sounding subjective descriptive and almost meaningless but there you go.. if someone can test and apply figure to the changes great..

I havent tried other settings though. I upped the voltage of my Qutest up too 3 volts.. low gain under the SA1 from day one .. 7-9 on the dial is about too loud for me. The Dan Clark Ethers 2 dont need much...


----------



## joseG86

Middy said:


> My music play list the very well recorded sound almost holographic with more perceived details super clean. That super smooth sheen unmodded is gone, nice but doesn't let sparkle stand out. Like standing at the door of a concert hall  like strange a EQ  setting but not the terrible software version were you gain and loose.
> Vocals more intimate cymbals drums more realistic.. The poor recordings sound a touch edgy but if thats the real version so be it..
> @joseG86  If that helps??)
> 
> ...


Cheers, Agree 101%


----------



## cobrabucket

I ran this past the wife and, unsurprisingly, she advised against it. She doesn't want me to void the warranty or explode my headphones, but I am trying to reassure her. LOL. Only thing is that since I got this through Apos, there is a 2 year warranty period on this. Not sure I can hold out that long. I guess I can just sit back and get more feedback from folks doing the mod before performing it myself.


----------



## Lolito

Voxata said:


> Arrives today, I'll need some time. I'll be testing it with HE-6 and in my 2ch setup. Unfortunately it looks like SE performance is not good, which my 2ch is RCA so conversion there will be bad so it's all down to headphone performance for me. This'll be compared to Jot2.


headphones se indeed not perfect, but good, true. But rca outputs are clean as the XLR, for sure.



Voxata said:


> Tonight's session went well, no fatigue. Great amp! The class A of chip amps, though I'm unsure it's true class A due to low heat. It's not constant heat output. Single ended is low power for sure on my headphone, but still sounds clean enough. This amp is a home run!


correct, same here, single ended I was missing high gain, but then went balanced cable and it is now plenty plenty loud in low gain.


----------



## cobrabucket

I read folks on here saying that the volume knob gets more "play" as the amp gets more use. I can attest to this. When I first got it, I could max out the volume with my HE6SE. It was just barely loud enough for some music. Today, it looks like I can get the volume close to maxing out, but it has a bit more headroom; the HE6SE can get loud enough around 3 o'clock as opposed to maxing it out. I was unsure if this was a good fit for the HE6SE, but I think it is just _barely_ adequate. I think this [stock] amp sounds really good. Will have to do more comparisons with my Jot 2 as a Headphone Amp, but I definitely prefer this as a Pre-amp for my powered monitors over the Jot 2. So far, so good!


----------



## deafenears

cobrabucket said:


> I was unsure if this was a good fit for the HE6SE, but I think it is just _barely_ adequate


That's with high gain?


----------



## nekky

Damn, I was wondering about HE6se V2 as I absolutely LOVE the look of those cans with modded grills/headband + a bright cable.. plus I hear they sound like Susvaras.


----------



## Middy (May 22, 2021)

I forget there are hard to drives about and need grunt. Originally people were driving the old one HE6 from stereo amps.🤔
Dan Clarks are 16ohm 9 o clock low gain  is killing it . I suppose as long as its within regular listening levels does it matter? Was never sure if there is an optimal spot on the alps pot.. 12 o clock ect..


----------



## nottheseapples

Middy said:


> Taking the lid off does.. the 6th screw is under a securty sticker so you can't have a sneeky try...
> 
> The fancy term is :
> *Caveat emptor *


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfOZKj8ZGqo 
maybe this works :-D


----------



## Middy

nottheseapples said:


> maybe this works :-D



I did think of a heat gun but wasnt sure it would work.... you could try a loyalty card and 300 grit paper... or a plastic knife  or a £3000 milling machine and 3/4 HSS milling bit....☹ i made handy tools as an apprentice... softening up the glues the key... as they are bi layer plastic strips so the under glue is stronger than the middle layer......

SA1 still sounds bloody good.... taking your headphones off as you think someones talking to you noises and its just more detail in an old song.... good..


----------



## nekky

Middy said:


> I did think of a heat gun but wasnt sure it would work.... you could try a loyalty card and 300 grit paper... or a plastic knife  or a £3000 milling machine and 3/4 HSS milling bit....☹ i made handy tools as an apprentice... softening up the glues the key... as they are bi layer plastic strips so the under glue is stronger than the middle layer......
> 
> SA1 still sounds bloody good.... taking your headphones off as you think someones talking to you noises and its just more detail in an old song.... good..


Happens to me every day lol


----------



## naynay

It's an Anti- tamper sticker it just breaks up in bits if you try to lift it of with a blade.


----------



## Middy

Also wifes hairdryer may do it.. but only if you're at that point... Next time how to copy DVDs and fake I phones and an introduction into the international cocaine smuggling market.


----------



## Voxata (May 22, 2021)

cobrabucket said:


> I read folks on here saying that the volume knob gets more "play" as the amp gets more use. I can attest to this. When I first got it, I could max out the volume with my HE6SE. It was just barely loud enough for some music. Today, it looks like I can get the volume close to maxing out, but it has a bit more headroom; the HE6SE can get loud enough around 3 o'clock as opposed to maxing it out. I was unsure if this was a good fit for the HE6SE, but I think it is just _barely_ adequate. I think this [stock] amp sounds really good. Will have to do more comparisons with my Jot 2 as a Headphone Amp, but I definitely prefer this as a Pre-amp for my powered monitors over the Jot 2. So far, so good!


Interesting.. using Gungnir into the Singxer and mine is a release week unit it still has enough power to make me uncomfortable by noon using HE6se. It's an Alps RK27 pot, it doesn't break in.. check your source and max it out. I'm in high gain and low z. There's enough power on tap to have really good attenuation range on the pot with this amp. I've some others where you can barely turn it up like Jot2. The Singxer to me is perfect. Also to note, I'm using passive max volume into the Singxer for headphone listening. No additional gain from my DAC.


----------



## cobrabucket (May 22, 2021)

Something like this, "Thousand Knives" [DSD128] by Ryuichi Sakamoto that's at a low volume requires around 3 o'clock to get to be "loud enough" for my personal tastes. (Look at the Waveform to see the differences in volume.)
"Violator" [DST64] by Depeche Mode, which is louder, only has to go to 12 or 1...


----------



## joseG86

Ryuichi Sakamoto...   If you knew how many times I've listened to "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence" and watched the movie lol


cobrabucket said:


> Something like this "Thousand Knives" [DSD128] by Ryuichi Sakamoto that's at a low volume requires around 3 o'clock to get to be "loud enough" for my personal tastes.
> "Violator" [DSD64] by Depeche Mode, which is louder, only has to go to 12 or 1...


----------



## Lolito

Voxata said:


> Interesting.. using Gungnir into the Singxer and mine is a release week unit it still has enough power to make me uncomfortable by noon using HE6se. It's an Alps RK27 pot, it doesn't break in.. check your source and max it out. I'm in high gain and low z. There's enough power on tap to have really good attenuation range on the pot with this amp. I've some others where you can barely turn it up like Jot2. The Singxer to me is perfect. Also to note, I'm using passive max volume into the Singxer for headphone listening. No additional gain from my DAC.


Yes, other people say that about jot2 pot, little usable range for low volume and/or low impedance. This pot does break in. Mine is much softer to turn now, no static resistance anymore, but when new it had it. The molted knob helped there at the beginning, but now it is velvety soft to turn.



cobrabucket said:


> Something like this, "Thousand Knives" [DSD128] by Ryuichi Sakamoto that's at a low volume requires around 3 o'clock to get to be "loud enough" for my personal tastes. (Look at the Waveform to see the differences in volume.)
> "Violator" [DST64] by Depeche Mode, which is louder, only has to go to 12 or 1...


Very wellastered violator for dsd, snappiest transients ever. Shows how dsd can sound better than pcm, maybe...


----------



## cobrabucket (May 22, 2021)

joseG86 said:


> Ryuichi Sakamoto...   If you knew how many times I've listened to "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence" and watched the movie lol


Fantastic OST. I also enjoy his Soundtrack to the Japanese version of "Milo and Otis" AKA "The Adventures of Chatran." Pretty much everything he and YMO released is excellent!


----------



## Middy (May 23, 2021)

One for the thread and new users? Any special songs now the SA1 has shone a light on them.... as great as it is.. its shifted some of my faves around.... rank of now sounding special/ than artist.. something you'd use to show off your system.... i am always looking for something new but the best of what you think.... i new ish to streaming so still collating a play list...
As long as its special to you..

Like this one with the mod its just a ton more space and bass like rolling thunder from being a background noise for reading..


----------



## Celty

I was trying to resist the temptation, but I ordered the SA-1 after Apos price matched for me to $539. I have ordered from them before, so I am confident they are a great vendor.

My current DAC is the SMSL SU-8 v2. Any opinions from SA-1 owners on whether a DAC upgrade would be worthwhile? I know newer DACs have better/additional features such as larger screens, Bluetooth, MQA (not important for me), etc.  I am primarily interested in actual sound performance gains/synergism. Is pairing the SA-1 with a higher voltage output DAC (above the standard XLR 4 volts) actually worthwhile?

Thanks in advance for your recommendations.


----------



## quawn0418 (May 23, 2021)

Celty said:


> I was trying to resist the temptation, but I ordered the SA-1 after Apos price matched for me to $539. I have ordered from them before, so I am confident they are a great vendor.
> 
> My current DAC is the SMSL SU-8 v2. Any opinions from SA-1 owners on whether a DAC upgrade would be worthwhile? I know newer DACs have better/additional features such as larger screens, Bluetooth, MQA (not important for me), etc.  I am primarily interested in actual sound performance gains/synergism. Is pairing the SA-1 with a higher voltage output DAC (above the standard XLR 4 volts) actually worthwhile?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your recommendations.


The SA-1 can certainly handle the 6.9v my adi 2 can dump into it, but it’s just fine when I’m dumping in 3.4v also, you’ll be more than ok with the 4v, unless we are talking about he6 or susvara lol which you still might get away with depending on how loud you like to listen


----------



## jwilliamhurst

Just ordered my sa-1 today! Can’t wait to receive it


----------



## jwilliamhurst (May 23, 2021)

Middy said:


> My music play list the very well recorded sound almost holographic with more perceived details super clean. That super smooth sheen unmodded is gone, nice but doesn't let sparkle stand out. Like standing at the door of a concert hall  like strange a EQ  setting but not the terrible software version were you gain and loose.
> Vocals more intimate cymbals drums more realistic.. The poor recordings sound a touch edgy but if thats the real version so be it..
> @joseG86  If that helps??)
> 
> ...


Are you using balanced or rca? I’m assuming rca with the Qutest.  I wonder if you would’ve had better SQ with balanced xlr had you been able to try it before the MOD. Can anyone speak to this? As this is a balanced amp. And from what I know most gear made balanced will sound best implemented in that fashion….


----------



## Lolito

welcome to the singxer class A club!!!


----------



## Currawong

Voxata said:


> Interesting.. using Gungnir into the Singxer and mine is a release week unit it still has enough power to make me uncomfortable by noon using HE6se. It's an Alps RK27 pot, it doesn't break in.. check your source and max it out. I'm in high gain and low z. There's enough power on tap to have really good attenuation range on the pot with this amp. I've some others where you can barely turn it up like Jot2. The Singxer to me is perfect. Also to note, I'm using passive max volume into the Singxer for headphone listening. No additional gain from my DAC.


The trick i've found is to play something like The Silent Sound Spectrum, which has very low bass. A good enough amp wont distort with the Susvaras when playing those low notes, even if with most music it may sound fine. 


jwilliamhurst said:


> Are you using balanced or rca? I’m assuming rca with the Qutest.  I wonder if you would’ve had better SQ with balanced xlr had you been able to try it before the MOD. Can anyone speak to this? As this is a balanced amp. And from what I know most gear made balanced will sound best implemented in that fashion….


You want to use the balanced output of a balanced amp. The input isn't quite so important. If an amp manufacturer can't do a phase splitter right, that'd be a real problem. I tried the RCA vs. balanced inputs from an Yggy without noticeable differences, so I'd say a Qutest would be fine as a source.


----------



## Middy

jwilliamhurst said:


> Are you using balanced or rca? I’m assuming rca with the Qutest.  I wonder if you would’ve had better SQ with balanced xlr had you been able to try it before the MOD. Can anyone speak to this? As this is a balanced amp. And from what I know most gear made balanced will sound best implemented in that fashion….


Yes, id love to try just for my own experience,  shorter and shielded was what i was told early on. Design and implementation.... of the gear.. nice to hear it shouldnt be an issue from Currawong... not hard to try both if you have that option.. i keep finding more details with the mod and changing my preferences.. Good vocals sound intimate....

Its always felt that the Amps have been holding back what a good DAC can do... every change for me seems one step further..


----------



## Lolito

Currawong said:


> The trick i've found is to play something like The Silent Sound Spectrum, which has very low bass. A good enough amp wont distort with the Susvaras when playing those low notes, even if with most music it may sound fine.
> 
> You want to use the balanced output of a balanced amp. The input isn't quite so important. If an amp manufacturer can't do a phase splitter right, that'd be a real problem. I tried the RCA vs. balanced inputs from an Yggy without noticeable differences, so I'd say a Qutest would be fine as a source.


Love your videos Curra. When I see your videos it reminds me that we are both getting fatter man, and we should do something about it. not that is summer, gotta get the bike around japan Curra!!


----------



## Bob Ley

Anyone else here happen to have the Cayin IHA-6?
​


----------



## Muataz

Celty said:


> I was trying to resist the temptation, but I ordered the SA-1 after Apos price matched for me to $539. I have ordered from them before, so I am confident they are a great vendor.
> 
> My current DAC is the SMSL SU-8 v2. Any opinions from SA-1 owners on whether a DAC upgrade would be worthwhile? I know newer DACs have better/additional features such as larger screens, Bluetooth, MQA (not important for me), etc.  I am primarily interested in actual sound performance gains/synergism. Is pairing the SA-1 with a higher voltage output DAC (above the standard XLR 4 volts) actually worthwhile?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your recommendations.


You will have fun with SU-8 v2 and SA-1. SU-8 v2 is balanced which is very good.


----------



## audiophonicshz

I have a iha-6. Its got a scratchy right channel but I'm pretty familiar with it.  The Singxer sa-1 has a bigger soundstage, better female vocals/airyness. The iha-6 has a  soundstage that is smaller but I would say PRAT is better on the iha-6. Also it has more power on tap, that much is palpable, it has better bass control.   

Still, it seems after a brief warmup the Singxer sa-1 opened up nicely. Better for most music because it makes my Z1Rs almost seem like they are open backs. Crazy!


----------



## J Mirra

I received a balanced cable for my HD800 yesterday. Better separation, deeper stage.
Gaming was great, better placement of sounds.
Is it majorly different that the single ended, no. The slight change is obvious to me an a great upgrade in quality.
Thanks to the people that posted about the balanced option that made me try it.


----------



## audiophonicshz

Yea, many people say it’s just a volume difference but I tend to think that xlr is quieter, darker background. Dynamics is probably better as well.


----------



## Middy

I didn't find the difference so large but ask me to go back to SE... no... To be fair experiences may vary, kit headphones, your ears. Subjectivity is hard to gain an answer from.. We can only hope for honesty and base are decision off others thoughts. I just bought a new xlr cable with a low Pf per foot rating... and shorter.... 
Yes different but so subtle...
I am just glad its made a bigger to you guys and your set ups..

Dave


----------



## J Mirra (May 27, 2021)

I got a 84 strand litz copper version, I was using a single ended version prior to this both from Custom Cans UK.


----------



## Bob Ley

audiophonicshz said:


> I have a iha-6. Its got a scratchy right channel but I'm pretty familiar with it.  The Singxer sa-1 has a bigger soundstage, better female vocals/airyness. The iha-6 has a  soundstage that is smaller but I would say PRAT is better on the iha-6. Also it has more power on tap, that much is palpable, it has better bass control.
> 
> Still, it seems after a brief warmup the Singxer sa-1 opened up nicely. Better for most music because it makes my Z1Rs almost seem like they are open backs. Crazy!


How long of a warmup? The SA-1 works ok (12:00) with my dynamic headphones volume wise but with my planars, I don't know why, but it just bothers me that I have to go to 3:00-4:00 to get where I like to listen. That's why I like my IHA-6, plenty of power on tap.


----------



## Middy (May 27, 2021)

J Mirra said:


> I got a 84 strand litz copper version, I was using a single ended version prior to this both from Custom Cans UK.


Yup i asked for any in stock ready and not buy a rainbow cable came in a day amazing..
 1.5m Ether xlr.. its not bad subtlety different. Good service


----------



## Fly2High

Bob Ley said:


> How long of a warmup? The SA-1 works ok (12:00) with my dynamic headphones volume wise but with my planars, I don't know why, but it just bothers me that I have to go to 3:00-4:00 to get where I like to listen. That's why I like my IHA-6, plenty of power on tap.


sounds to me you prefer a linear volume control over exponential.  SA-1 is exponential.

Also sounds like you are defining power output by volume position and not actual output.  The dial does not suggest the amount of headroom or power output unless you map it to the exponential curve and read it or measure it. 

For me, I like that easy to drive HP have a nice section on the dial where I can fine tune the volume.  For me, I have no issue adjusting my planars.    Not sure if this exponential control will ease the need to adjust gain or not.  It might.  Instead of changing gain, I might have enough tuning control not to have to change it at the lower range.


----------



## Bob Ley (May 27, 2021)

Fly2High said:


> sounds to me you prefer a linear volume control over exponential.  SA-1 is exponential.
> 
> Also sounds like you are defining power output by volume position and not actual output.  The dial does not suggest the amount of headroom or power output unless you map it to the exponential curve and read it or measure it.
> 
> For me, I like that easy to drive HP have a nice section on the dial where I can fine tune the volume.  For me, I have no issue adjusting my planars.    Not sure if this exponential control will ease the need to adjust gain or not.  It might.  Instead of changing gain, I might have enough tuning control not to have to change it at the lower range.


I set to high gain right out of the box. I need to research more  linear vs. exponential volume control. 

I really need to get past that stigma I've created of the volume knob needing to go all the way to 3:00.


----------



## Muataz

audiophonicshz said:


> I have a iha-6. Its got a scratchy right channel but I'm pretty familiar with it.  The Singxer sa-1 has a bigger soundstage, better female vocals/airyness. The iha-6 has a  soundstage that is smaller but I would say PRAT is better on the iha-6. Also it has more power on tap, that much is palpable, it has better bass control.
> 
> Still, it seems after a brief warmup the Singxer sa-1 opened up nicely. Better for most music because it makes my Z1Rs almost seem like they are open backs. Crazy!


Try to use more volume while playing in SA-1


----------



## audiophonicshz

Bob Ley said:


> How long of a warmup? The SA-1 works ok (12:00) with my dynamic headphones volume wise but with my planars, I don't know why, but it just bothers me that I have to go to 3:00-4:00 to get where I like to listen. That's why I like my IHA-6, plenty of power on tap.


2hours or so? The hiss just slowly gets louder.  Maybe dc offset buildup of some kind? I feel the same way.  I drive Z1rs and they really come to life in a different way than my SA-1.  The SA-1 is alittle underpowered. Deciding between the SA-1 and the Burson Soloist 3xp.  The Cayin is a great amp.


----------



## Bob Ley

audiophonicshz said:


> 2hours or so? The hiss just slowly gets louder.  Maybe dc offset buildup of some kind? I feel the same way.  I drive Z1rs and they really come to life in a different way than my SA-1.  The SA-1 is alittle underpowered. Deciding between the SA-1 and the Burson Soloist 3xp.  The Cayin is a great amp.


Thanaks, I'm probably gonna return the SA-1


----------



## Bob Ley

Bob Ley said:


> Thanks, I'm probably gonna return the SA-1. I like the Burson Soloist 3xp better than the SA-1.


----------



## Muataz

Bob Ley said:


> How long of a warmup? The SA-1 works ok (12:00) with my dynamic headphones volume wise but with my planars, I don't know why, but it just bothers me that I have to go to 3:00-4:00 to get where I like to listen. That's why I like my IHA-6, plenty of power on tap.



SA-1 perform the same at all volume. you can go to maximize 5:30 without and drawback.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...xer-sa-1-review-balanced-headphone-amp.23365/


----------



## deafenears

Bob Ley said:


> I set to high gain right out of the box. I need to research more linear vs. exponential volume control.


https://www.hoaglandcustom.com/2017/05/15/hello-world/



> An AUDIO taper pot increases the signal from your guitar to your amp in a logarithmic (exponential) fashion. Simply explained, “1”, “2”, or “3” on the volume knob will produce little, if any, signal but once you get past “3” or so, the volume will ramp up a LOT. Past “8” or so there will be very little volume increase. ...





> A LINEAR taper pot increases the signal in a linear fashion. (“1” on your control is equal to 10%, “4” is equal to 40% and so forth) This works very different from an audio taper volume pot. ...


----------



## Pharmaboy

Bob Ley said:


> I set to high gain right out of the box. I need to research more  linear vs. exponential volume control.
> 
> I really need to get past that stigma I've created of the volume knob needing to go all the way to 3:00.



In defense of your "stigma" of having to go high on the volume knob to get required loudness: almost all the line level gear we use in our lifetimes (anything w/a volume knob) used linear volume potentiometers. After years of being heavily into audio, I encountered my very first logarithmic volume post just ~4 years ago. It took me awhile to get used to it--but now I really value that wide adjustment space on the lower end of low gain--because that's where most of my gear wants to live. I'm including my speakers & sub, which I listen to at low volume most of the time; and on this logarithmic pot, it's child's play to exactly dial in the perfect low volume because the pot gives so much rotational real estate to do so.

Every once in awhile I try a less sensitive/efficient headphone on that amp, and feel slightly uncomfortable pushing the volume to levels that would blow my ears off w/more sensitive stuff. So I know that feeling...

It's all about what you're used to. But I predict that the longer you use a logarithmic pot--especially if you have any efficient/sensitive headphones that don't want to go anywhere near 3 to 4PM on the dial--the more you'll appreciate it.


----------



## Middy

Thank you for the explanations gents... i get the weirdness factor though but easily live with the pot..🙂


----------



## Bob Ley

Pharmaboy said:


> In defense of your "stigma" of having to go high on the volume knob to get required loudness: almost all the line level gear we use in our lifetimes (anything w/a volume knob) used linear volume potentiometers. After years of being heavily into audio, I encountered my very first logarithmic volume post just ~4 years ago. It took me awhile to get used to it--but now I really value that wide adjustment space on the lower end of low gain--because that's where most of my gear wants to live. I'm including my speakers & sub, which I listen to at low volume most of the time; and on this logarithmic pot, it's child's play to exactly dial in the perfect low volume because the pot gives so much rotational real estate to do so.
> 
> Every once in awhile I try a less sensitive/efficient headphone on that amp, and feel slightly uncomfortable pushing the volume to levels that would blow my ears off w/more sensitive stuff. So I know that feeling...
> 
> It's all about what you're used to. But I predict that the longer you use a logarithmic pot--especially if you have any efficient/sensitive headphones that don't want to go anywhere near 3 to 4PM on the dial--the more you'll appreciate it.





Pharmaboy said:


> In defense of your "stigma" of having to go high on the volume knob to get required loudness: almost all the line level gear we use in our lifetimes (anything w/a volume knob) used linear volume potentiometers. After years of being heavily into audio, I encountered my very first logarithmic volume post just ~4 years ago. It took me awhile to get used to it--but now I really value that wide adjustment space on the lower end of low gain--because that's where most of my gear wants to live. I'm including my speakers & sub, which I listen to at low volume most of the time; and on this logarithmic pot, it's child's play to exactly dial in the perfect low volume because the pot gives so much rotational real estate to do so.
> 
> Every once in awhile I try a less sensitive/efficient headphone on that amp, and feel slightly uncomfortable pushing the volume to levels that would blow my ears off w/more sensitive stuff. So I know that feeling...
> 
> It's all about what you're used to. But I predict that the longer you use a logarithmic pot--especially if you have any efficient/sensitive headphones that don't want to go anywhere near 3 to 4PM on the dial--the more you'll appreciate it.


That's the problem, even my Grado's need to go to 3:00. All my planars also, Dan Clark Aeon 2 Noire, Hifiman Sundara's, etc


----------



## Middy

Bob Ley said:


> That's the problem, even my Grado's need to go to 3:00. All my planars also, Dan Clark Aeon 2 Noire, Hifiman Sundara's, etc


Do you know the line in voltage,  3 volts from my Qutest gets me 9 o'clock  DClarks Ether 2s  2v 12 o'clock on low gain no z.. but past 12 doesnt blow my head off until 3 o'clock...


----------



## jwilliamhurst

I’ve received my Singxer Sa-1 and have been listening for a few days. I bought this from another headfier that has only used the amp for 20hours or so. So I’m sure the amp needs more burn in time.
As of now, the transients are snappy and fast. Everything sounds punchy and clear. The amp does not seem warm to me at all but also not cold or sterile…. However the bass may be the deal breaker for me….it’s very soft. Sounds like the kick drum has a blanket thrown over it. It’s def not the bass I thought I would get from a balanced amp, at least not at the moment. I’m going to give it a few weeks but if it doesn’t open up I will be selling.
My whole chain is balanced, using the 4.4 balanced.  I can hear the potential of the amp and it does a lot of things well.  The soundstage seems average…I was hoping for more after all the rave reviews of its wide open soundstage. So far Schiit is winning in my books. I’ll be back with an update in a few weeks….


----------



## Lolito

jwilliamhurst said:


> I’ve received my Singxer Sa-1 and have been listening for a few days. I bought this from another headfier that has only used the amp for 20hours or so. So I’m sure the amp needs more burn in time.
> As of now, the transients are snappy and fast. Everything sounds punchy and clear. The amp does not seem warm to me at all but also not cold or sterile…. However the bass may be the deal breaker for me….it’s very soft. Sounds like the kick drum has a blanket thrown over it. It’s def not the bass I thought I would get from a balanced amp, at least not at the moment. I’m going to give it a few weeks but if it doesn’t open up I will be selling.
> My whole chain is balanced, using the 4.4 balanced.  I can hear the potential of the amp and it does a lot of things well.  The soundstage seems average…I was hoping for more after all the rave reviews of its wide open soundstage. So far Schiit is winning in my books. I’ll be back with an update in a few weeks….


what headphones are you using them with, and dac or speakers?


----------



## jwilliamhurst

Lolito said:


> what headphones are you using them with, and dac or speakers?


I’m using Oriolus Traillii iem with a Denafrips  Pontus 2 R2R Dac. Haven’t tried with speakers as I’m mainly an iem user.
Traillii already has an impressive soundstage but sounds wider and more life like on my lyr 3 and the lyr sounds more natural, just not as fast and punchy as the singxer. Which makes sense due to the tube hybrid aspect. Maybe that’s just my preference.


----------



## seppukuslick

Has anybody tried this with CA DacMagic200m? Interested in getting this.


----------



## Muataz

Bob Ley said:


> That's the problem, even my Grado's need to go to 3:00. All my planars also, Dan Clark Aeon 2 Noire, Hifiman Sundara's, etc


What player do you use and you use DSP EQ ? and do you max your DAC output to max, I think you can output +6v from  REM ADI ?

However, the volume and the sound quality should not changed even if you used it all max.


----------



## Bob Ley

Muataz said:


> What player do you use and you use DSP EQ ? and do you max your DAC output to max, I think you can output +6v from  REM ADI ?
> 
> However, the volume and the sound quality should not changed even if you used it all max.


I usually keep the dac output at -15 dBr.  I do use the EQ.


----------



## Muataz

Bob Ley said:


> I usually keep the dac output at -15 dBr.  I do use the EQ.


Okay   -15dBr is too much and this why you have to raise the volume much higher in the SA-1

If you do EQ in you DAC, I'm sure you are not boosting the Bass 15+db ! so you can reduce the DAC output the same amount of your maximum gain db+ in your EQ.

For example: if your maximum value in EQ for Bass by +5db then reduce the Dac preamp output by -5db only otherwise you loss a lot of headroom .


----------



## jwilliamhurst (May 29, 2021)

***UPDATE***

Alright, alright, alright…..ALRIGHT!! I now understand the hype of the almighty Singxer Sa-1!

I came home tonight and turned on the sa-1 in low gain and let her warm up for about 45 min before starting my journey…
Plugged directly into the 4.4 with my Oriolus Traillii.

I know I posted earlier today I was a bit let down by this amp….(backstory…I use roon upsampled to dsd before the dac.)…Well, tonight I turned off upsampling via roon and let the dac upsample  in os mode, slow filter and I heard the magic!!

First and foremost the soundstage became EPIC!!! Wide and spacious, deep and tall! All directions! The Traillii really helps here as well, but def could tell the amp was pushing it further in a natural way.  I now hear the warmth and it’s welcomed because all the transients are still there in spades; articulate, fast and punchy but with a layer of warmth. The layers and imaging are all present and in good measure. The trailli resolves like a champ and the sa-1 shows it off with muscle.
I have to be completely honest here.( I know this is a controversial subject about this amp…) but, I love the volume pot! It’s PERFECT for iem use! It’s quite amazing in my opinion but YMMV. The bass is still a bit blunted.  Which I hope (🤞) tightens up more with burn in. That is my only complaint as of now.  I’m pretty impressed by this affordable balanced amp. It definitely deserves all the praise it’s been getting. Kudos to Singxer!

I read a review on _*Audiophilia* by *Michael Johnson* _about the Pontus 2 dac which I own and use.  He stated _“Dynamics on the Pontus are impressive and reminiscent of a good 45rpm vinyl record, they ebb and flow and can really hit you with impact when required.” _ I concur completely!  It IS very analog and natural with so much clarity and is easily *doubled* when adding the sa-1 into the equation.
I will be enjoying this burn in process. I will report back soon.


----------



## Middy

jwilliamhurst said:


> ***UPDATE***
> 
> Alright, alright, alright…..ALRIGHT!! I now understand the hype of the almighty Singxer Sa-1!
> 
> ...


I panicked and thought id bought into the hype train and failed....why i quoted my initial impressions.. Horrible and disjointed ... When you said before about the denifrips i read that it was a warmish midrange R2R Dac.  I jumped the gun early with the mod.. i am at the point of it sounding like a spacious empty concert dependant on the recording.... does take so settle time, i just hope its what you like or at least better than before... thats all we can hope for...

Good luck
Dave


----------



## ActuallySparky

My SA-1 arrived about a week ago, and I thought I'd share some impressions. So far I'm VERY impressed with this, although admittedly it's more than twice the cost of any standalone amp I've used, so I'm likely easy to impress. It's also worth noting that I'm primarily an IEM guy, and am using this to power the IER-Z1R, so only really bothering with low gain.

Net-net, I really like it. It's a little warmer than the Topping A30 Pro, but not so warm as to be 'flavored' (not that I'm against a little flavor now and then). The SA-1 handles impact, punch, and dynamics better than any amp I've ever auditioned; percussion is crisp from the lows to the highs. The bass is beautifully powered, although not overdone. The bass was a little limp for my taste on the A30 Pro, and the SA-1 fixes that. Overall though, the Topping and Signxer have a similar sound profile.

Compared to the JDS Labs Atom there's more differences in profile - the SA-1 is dramatically faster. I love the Atom for being warm and punchy, but to the extent of being a bit of a flavor amp. I'm certainly keeping it around on the RCA output of my Bifrost for when I'd rather chill and enjoy beats, but the SA-1 is a much faster, crisper, and more engaging. The Z1R isn't perfectly powered by the Atom, but is absolutely commanded by the SA-1. Easier to drive options like the Atlas or Andromeda Gold lean into the more laid back Atom presentation a bit more.

I see why people like the Singxer.


----------



## shwnwllms

Just ordered my Singxer SA-1 today from ShenzhenAudio. (Along with a Gustard X16 DAC). Curious from any recent owners how long international shipping on the SA-1 is taking lately?


----------



## Bob Ley

shwnwllms said:


> Just ordered my Singxer SA-1 today from ShenzhenAudio. (Along with a Gustard X16 DAC). Curious from any recent owners how long international shipping on the SA-1 is taking lately?


DHL has been crazy fast lately (for me) Order was shipped out on a Friday and at my door by Tuesday (Boston)


----------



## Middy

Bob Ley said:


> DHL has been crazy fast lately (for me) Order was shipped out on a Friday and at my door by Tuesday (Boston)


Yes i was expecting month  but its like they popped around from next door..🙂👍


----------



## Celty

Bob Ley said:


> DHL has been crazy fast lately (for me) Order was shipped out on a Friday and at my door by Tuesday (Boston)



I ordered a Singxer SA-1 amp on May 21st. They followed through swiftly with a price match (same day). The expected delivery by DHL was June 1st, and I received emails from Apos and DHL on May 22nd that the item was shipped!

On May 24th, Apos notified me that they had done a complementary upgrade of the shipping of my order from Priority Shipping to Express Shipping to get it to me a few days sooner. I was surprised and of course pleased. I emailed my thanks, but also let them know that the DHL tracking showed the order had been stuck on hold and had not advanced from the original location. They responded quickly that the Support Team had alerted the Transportation Manager to look into the DHL delay. I received several more updates until the 27th, when I got emails from both Apos and DHL that the shipment was advancing and DHL said they had experienced a high growth of shipments from Asia-Pacific into the U.S, which had resulted in a slight delay.

I actually got the SA-1 on May 28th. The point of all this is to say that Apos went above and beyond with their responsiveness and communication, and exceeded expectations. I cannot say that about any other vendor that I have dealt with. My thanks to Bob, Darwin, and Sheila of Apos, they are great!


----------



## shwnwllms

Celty said:


> I ordered a Singxer SA-1 amp on May 21st. They followed through swiftly with a price match (same day). The expected delivery by DHL was June 1st, and I received emails from Apos and DHL on May 22nd that the item was shipped!
> 
> On May 24th, Apos notified me that they had done a complementary upgrade of the shipping of my order from Priority Shipping to Express Shipping to get it to me a few days sooner. I was surprised and of course pleased. I emailed my thanks, but also let them know that the DHL tracking showed the order had been stuck on hold and had not advanced from the original location. They responded quickly that the Support Team had alerted the Transportation Manager to look into the DHL delay. I received several more updates until the 27th, when I got emails from both Apos and DHL that the shipment was advancing and DHL said they had experienced a high growth of shipments from Asia-Pacific into the U.S, which had resulted in a slight delay.
> 
> I actually got the SA-1 on May 28th. The point of all this is to say that Apos went above and beyond with their responsiveness and communication, and exceeded expectations. I cannot say that about any other vendor that I have dealt with. My thanks to Bob, Darwin, and Sheila of Apos, they are great!


Apos was out of stock on the X16 so I just ordered both the X16 & SA-1 from ShenzhenAudio. So far I haven’t received a shipping confirmation, so I have no idea what lead time to expect from them. Sounds like a great experience with Apos, I’ll certainly keep them in mind for future purchases.


----------



## Bob Ley

I'm selling mine if anyone interested, PM me.


----------



## joseG86

Me too, mint condition 3 months old 


Bob Ley said:


> I'm selling mine if anyone interested, PM me.


----------



## Jay_vs

Really? How come? You not happy with it?


----------



## Middy

Qutest and jumper mod i am really happy so far...I always want more for less though 😁
What are you guys thinking of moving on to?
Good luck selling,
I know the rule.. you cant buy to early but can sell to late...

Cheers
Dave🙂


----------



## joseG86

Jay_vs said:


> Really? How come? You not happy with it?


Just got better amp matching with my HPs, I don't need it anymore but it is really good amp of course! I want to end my hi-fi journey with 1 DAC-AMP-HPs


----------



## nekky

joseG86 said:


> Just got better amp matching with my HPs, I don't need it anymore but it is really good amp of course! I want to end my hi-fi journey with 1 DAC-AMP-HPs


Which amp??


----------



## joseG86

Kinki THR-1, bought from a head-fier


nekky said:


> Which amp??


----------



## Bob Ley

joseG86 said:


> Kinki THR-1, bought from a head-fier


Never heard of that but looks interesting!


----------



## joseG86

Bob Ley said:


> Never heard of that but looks interesting!


Indeed, I had no idea about that DC coupled amp, my friend @Lolito sent me a PM and I bought it right away lol


----------



## Bob Ley

joseG86 said:


> Indeed, I had no idea about that DC coupled amp, my friend @Lolito sent me a PM and I bought it right away lol


You like it a lot?


----------



## joseG86

Yeah, I bought it because it is kind of similar to the XI Formula S, overwhelming power. Bass is way better than SA-1 and upper region is never bright, EQ wasn't needed before but it was lacking energy in 40-80hz, that got fixed with it.

I guess SA-1 with DC couple mod sounds better.


----------



## Muataz

Bob Ley said:


> Never heard of that but looks interesting!


https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/kinki-studio-vision-thr-1-review-a-gentle-giant/

Both amp reviewd in this site.


----------



## Bob Ley

joseG86 said:


> Yeah, I bought it because it is kind of similar to the XI Formula S, overwhelming power. Bass is way better than SA-1 and upper region is never bright, EQ wasn't needed before but it was lacking energy in 40-80hz, that got fixed with it.
> 
> I guess SA-1 with DC couple mod sounds better.


sent you a pm


----------



## Jay_vs

It's great that you found what you were looking for. It looks like a really nice amp. Shame it doesn't come in black


----------



## Lolito

hype is over, what's the new flavour of the month? nothing til september october I guess.


----------



## Pharmaboy

joseG86 said:


> Yeah, I bought it because it is kind of similar to the XI Formula S, overwhelming power. Bass is way better than SA-1 and upper region is never bright, EQ wasn't needed before but it was lacking energy in 40-80hz, that got fixed with it.
> 
> I guess SA-1 with DC couple mod sounds better.



I was extremely interested in the Kinki amp for a time. But 2 things stopped me:

No remote. That's a dealbreaker because I would want to use an amp of this quality as a preamp, in addition to HP amp
And it has a ton of gain w/a linear volume pot. In my system, which has too much gain to begin with, that would effectively mean I would be confined to the bottom ~15% of the pot's rotation (all the way on the left)...not a good place to be IMS
If Kinki ever addressed these issues, I'd jump on that amp. BTW, it made me crazy the Kinki manual stated that a remote control was included--something I check on & found was not accurate.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Lolito said:


> hype is over, what's the new flavour of the month? nothing til september october I guess.


There's no hype. It's a great amp. I find it to be better than the THX amps, better than the Topping A90, and better than the Jot 2. It's just really smooth and solid.


----------



## joseG86

Pharmaboy said:


> I was extremely interested in the Kinki amp for a time. But 2 things stopped me:
> 
> No remote. That's a dealbreaker because I would want to use an amp of this quality as a preamp, in addition to HP amp
> And it has a ton of gain w/a linear volume pot. In my system, which has too much gain to begin with, that would effectively mean I would be confined to the bottom ~15% of the pot's rotation (all the way on the left)...not a good place to be IMS
> If Kinki ever addressed these issues, I'd jump on that amp. BTW, it made me crazy the Kinki manual stated that a remote control was included--something I check on & found was not accurate.


This is so far the best amp I've ever tried and I had the chance to get a V281 but I decided to go Kinki way


----------



## Pharmaboy

joseG86 said:


> This is so far the best amp I've ever tried and I had the chance to get a V281 but I decided to go Kinki way



I have a V281 (w/stepped attenuator & remote). It's the best SS amp & preamp I've ever heard. But it won't last forever--and the newer Violectrics admittedly have a more "neutral" sound (that's not happy news for me, as the V281's sound is ideal IMO).

All to say that I always keep my eyes open for a potential TOTL backup amp/preamp. Plus I confess--I just have a thing for headphone amps.


----------



## Bob Ley

joseG86 said:


> This is so far the best amp I've ever tried and I had the chance to get a V281 but I decided to go Kinki way


Sold my Sa-1 for a Kinki


----------



## Lolito

Hifiearspeakers said:


> There's no hype. It's a great amp. I find it to be better than the THX amps, better than the Topping A90, and better than the Jot 2. It's just really smooth and solid.


There is hype. Hype can be justified or not, no  a bad thing per se, but boy, there was hype, of course there was. Still flavour fo the month, at these prices... Til september october I guess.


----------



## Lolito

Pharmaboy said:


> I was extremely interested in the Kinki amp for a time. But 2 things stopped me:
> 
> No remote. That's a dealbreaker because I would want to use an amp of this quality as a preamp, in addition to HP amp
> And it has a ton of gain w/a linear volume pot. In my system, which has too much gain to begin with, that would effectively mean I would be confined to the bottom ~15% of the pot's rotation (all the way on the left)...not a good place to be IMS
> If Kinki ever addressed these issues, I'd jump on that amp. BTW, it made me crazy the Kinki manual stated that a remote control was included--something I check on & found was not accurate.


Remote is a great idea indeed for when used with speakers... gotta get a digital ladder knob I guess. Burson has remote. mini GSX has remote? not sure.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Jun 10, 2021)

Lolito said:


> Remote is a great idea indeed for when used with speakers... gotta get a digital ladder knob I guess. Burson has remote. mini GSX has remote? not sure.



BTW, my need for a remote isn't just laziness. The equipment stack is 4-5 feet from my seat in front of the big desktop system. That's a long way to reach--not convenient, especially when I'm busy. So for the main system, a remote is critical.

I have a 2nd system to the side of the main one (attached to a laptop). I just swing my chair around and there it is, very close to the volume pot, no need for a remote. But there aren't any speakers on the side system--just headphones.


----------



## Zyma

Can i ask some questions about via output connection? 
There is any problem if my input is rca and output is 4.4mm or xlr ?
Or I must use input rca and output 6.35mm.


----------



## joseG86

Zyma said:


> Can i ask some questions about via output connection?
> There is any problem if my input is rca and output is 4.4mm or xlr ?
> Or I must use input rca and output 6.35mm.




There is 0 problem with that, you can interconnect it anyway you want to, input RCA or XLR and ouput 4.4mm, 6.35 or XLR it will work, you just choose in the front what input is getting the signal


----------



## joseG86

Pharmaboy said:


> I have a V281 (w/stepped attenuator & remote). It's the best SS amp & preamp I've ever heard. But it won't last forever--and the newer Violectrics admittedly have a more "neutral" sound (that's not happy news for me, as the V281's sound is ideal IMO).
> 
> All to say that I always keep my eyes open for a potential TOTL backup amp/preamp. Plus I confess--I just have a thing for headphone amps.


I was like you with headphone amps, then I realized I was wasting money, all of them sounded good and differences were so little that I just kept the one that sounded best to me and sold the rest (still trying to sell the SA-1 mint lol)

Now I've got a Pontus 2 and this is probably and finally my end game, end of journey until New Order


----------



## Bob Ley

joseG86 said:


> Pontus 2


But that's a DAC, right? Is the Kinki your end game amp for the moment?


----------



## joseG86

Bob Ley said:


> But that's a DAC, right? Is the Kinki your end game amp for the moment?



Yes, absolutely! No matter how much money you put into DACs or Amps, the real deal is always headphones, when I got mine, after Arya and Clear, made me realize that I found what I was looking for: Pure realism in front of the computer, translate myself into the concert halls and let go

Kinki for my headphones is so detailed, lively and organic.... I'd love to try so many amps but money is a problem here haha, Artemis looks so good....


----------



## Pharmaboy

joseG86 said:


> then I realized I was wasting money



You say that like it's a bad thing...


----------



## joseG86

Pharmaboy said:


> You say that like it's a bad thing...


Please don't misinterpret my words, it is never a bad thing, just from my point of view I felt like I was wasting it because every single device I adquired sounded great haha

So I ended up with 5 amps and liked all of them but it made no sense to me having all of them and switching over and over!


----------



## Pharmaboy (Jun 11, 2021)

joseG86 said:


> Please don't misinterpret my words, it is never a bad thing, just from my point of view I felt like I was wasting it because every single device I adquired sounded great haha
> 
> So I ended up with 5 amps and liked all of them but it made no sense to me having all of them and switching over and over!



I was joking. For most people, having many amps would be a waste of money. But I really have a thing for headphone amps (also amp/preamps). I have 6 at this time and had as many as 9 before.

But my complicated audio systems allow me to use 3 amps (or amp/preamps) at any given time:

One amp goes in the side system.
And two go in the main system. Both are live at all times thanks to having dual RCA outputs on my DACs (usually the MHDT Labs Orchid; at the moment it's the Audio GD DAC-19).
With this kind of setup I can quite easily listen to the same song with a friend (each w/his own amp); or listen to the side system vs main system, and so on.
Sometimes I rotate this HP amp in to replace that one, or this amp/preamp in to replace that one...I like changing it up
The main system has the passive speakers, speaker amp, electronic crossover, and sub (using either the V281 or AGD SA-31SE as amp/preamp, alllowing me to listen to music all day long w/o even plugging in a headphone.
I spend a lot of time in this home office, so I made it very responsive to my audio needs.

BTW, that Pontus DAC is one that I would love to try--but it's simply too large for my limited desktop space (by contrast, the MHDT Labs Orchid is <1/2 the size of the Pontus).

I am thinking hard about getting a DDC as a step-up/evolution from my SPDIF converters--but it's a gamble, since the whole reclocker/jitter eliminator thing only really helps DACs that don't control jitter well. I don't know if MHDT Labs Orchid is a good or a bad DAC that way (though I do love the sound).


----------



## joseG86

I'd appreciate pics of your setup haha, I've read you for quite some time already over this forum and you seem know a lot about this hobby

I'm not really into DDC but I'll test Ares vs Pontus and give some feedback on its thread, I'll also try the SA-1 with Pontus and give impressions here


----------



## gdwallasign

Has anyone done a write-up of geshelli erish compared to the sa-1 or the other competitors in this class?


----------



## Alien2085

joseG86 said:


> I'd appreciate pics of your setup haha, I've read you for quite some time already over this forum and you seem know a lot about this hobby
> 
> I'm not really into DDC but I'll test Ares vs Pontus and give some feedback on its thread, I'll also try the SA-1 with Pontus and give impressions here


I’m looking to purchase Pontus as well so your overall impression and test with Singxer SA-1 would be most welcome! Thanks a ton.


----------



## nekky

gdwallasign said:


> Has anyone done a write-up of geshelli erish compared to the sa-1 or the other competitors in this class?


Had one - great amp but no ability to drive anything lower than 16ohms. SA-1 is arguably better in every way.


----------



## quawn0418

joseG86 said:


> I'd appreciate pics of your setup haha, I've read you for quite some time already over this forum and you seem know a lot about this hobby
> 
> I'm not really into DDC but I'll test Ares vs Pontus and give some feedback on its thread, I'll also try the SA-1 with Pontus and give impressions here


Looking forward to your impressions


----------



## gdwallasign

nekky said:


> Had one - great amp but no ability to drive anything lower than 16ohms. SA-1 is arguably better in every way.


Thank you! By lower impedences do you mean iems? I've ran mine through the erish and have been having a good enough time with it.


----------



## nekky

gdwallasign said:


> Thank you! By lower impedences do you mean iems? I've ran mine through the erish and have been having a good enough time with it.


No I mean literally low impedance, ie. Dan Clark Audio which are 13 ohm and require lots of juice. The Erish didn’t play nice at all.


----------



## gdwallasign

nekky said:


> No I mean literally low impedance, ie. Dan Clark Audio which are 13 ohm and require lots of juice. The Erish didn’t play nice at all.


No crap huh. Well well.


----------



## nekky

gdwallasign said:


> No crap huh. Well well.


Yeah I was shocked but it was *completely* my fault for missing that. Long story short, Geshelli Labs is an amazing company and took care of me as a customer. Their products are excellent and their support is likely second to none, for real.


----------



## KanaMaloundi

joseG86 said:


> Now I've got a Pontus 2 and this is probably and finally my end game, end of journey until New Order


There is something I don't understand, "José": today and two days ago, as we were exchanging about your announce for a Ares 2, you told me that you WILL receive a Pontus soon so that you could compare them. (And told me too that you cancelled this buying and so wouldn't sell the Ares, when I said I would pay with Paypal). And on this thread, six months ago, you were telling that you had a Pontus. Could you explain this?


----------



## joseG86

KanaMaloundi said:


> There is something I don't understand, "José": today and two days ago, as we were exchanging about your announce for a Ares 2, you told me that you WILL receive a Pontus soon so that you could compare them. (And told me too that you cancelled this buying and so wouldn't sell the Ares, when I said I would pay with Paypal). And on this thread, six months ago, you were telling that you had a Pontus. Could you explain this?


I am receiving Pontus and selling Ares but I need 2 days to receive it and try it out!

I was about to cancel it as I am very nervous and undecided person but I just threw my money at it.....


----------



## gdwallasign

nekky said:


> Yeah I was shocked but it was *completely* my fault for missing that. Long story short, Geshelli Labs is an amazing company and took care of me as a customer. Their products are excellent and their support is likely second to none, for real.


Yeah they have been great. They reached out to me to get a heatsink on the dac chip of my new j2 to help for longevity. Just proactively helping me out like that is kind of badass.


----------



## shwnwllms

Got my SA-1 a week ago and this baby is really starting to singx


----------



## Lolito

Any fatalities due to the dc mod???


----------



## Currawong

I finally got around to shooting my review, now that other work is out of the way:


----------



## Lolito (Jun 19, 2021)

Currawong said:


> I finally got around to shooting my review, now that other work is out of the way:



How is it going with the cycling Curra? did you followed my advise? I´m doing 140Km-210Km per week. ATM I´m fat like a tuna.

Check out this channel, I think those routes are nearby where you live:
https://www.youtube.com/c/RidesofJapan/videos

God bless you and your great videos.

UPDATE - Following the sensei:

Bolts are Torx T08, the bigger ones are Torx T10 and you don't need to remove them



My phone camera is bad, but this device is a beauty inside. Fully loaded. The aluminium plates are way thick. Overbuilt.



The jumpers I have at hand now, ordered new short ones.



Very flowery San Franciscan jumpers. Holo Spring.




Sounds great now, before sounded great already. Maybe now much more dynamic range? no top limit? tomorrow will test properly. So far so good, sounds sweet.



I have this in 24-96, remastered 2020 version, upsampled to 192 inside audirvana, with DC mod. Sounds better than being there. Better. I left it cool before doing the job, then right after was still cold, sounded so so. Now warm and with the mod, it does sound great.


----------



## Alien2085

Lolito said:


> How is it going with the cycling Curra? did you followed my advise? I´m doing 140Km-210Km per week. ATM I´m fat like a tuna.
> 
> Check out this channel, I think those routes are nearby where you live:
> https://www.youtube.com/c/RidesofJapan/videos
> ...



Thank you 🙏 I guess it is time to follow with the jumpers upgrade, do you think any computer jumper caps from  Amazon, like this for instance (RuiLing 120-Pack 4 Color 30PCS Each Open Top 2.54mm Standard Computer Jumper Caps Shunts Short Circuit Cap 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RRTQTW3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_PSG4ZXZN03VS0CEXK5AG would suffice?


----------



## Lolito

Any 2.54mm jumper will do


----------



## Middy

Thanks to @Currawong for the review and doing the Mod also... Very much appreciated by myself and others interested in the mod.


----------



## Middy

Lolito said:


> How is it going with the cycling Curra? did you followed my advise? I´m doing 140Km-210Km per week. ATM I´m fat like a tuna.
> 
> Check out this channel, I think those routes are nearby where you live:
> https://www.youtube.com/c/RidesofJapan/videos
> ...



Hey @Lolito  can you link the shorter jumper cables please I'd like to try them also..

Thank you 
Dave😁👍


----------



## Lolito

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000683311083.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.27f83c00DNk5Gq&mp=1


----------



## Middy

I googled Lolito and I found it means 'handsome superstar' 
Thanks for the link better fire up AliExpress not done that for a while...

Take care 
Dave 🙂👍


----------



## Middy (Jun 20, 2021)

Meh.. as much as I like AliExpress for cost next month is tooooo long for an impatient old man....

I think I have the right Dupont female crimps and a thicker silver plated wire... Why not...
eBay and UK seller 3 days postage...

They can be crimped by hand without an expensive crimp tool but I'll silver solder then in... And it's a bit of fun... Again thanks @Lolito for pointing me in the right direction ..
Dupont female crimps and housings  and wire sizes... Thicker is better.. as my wife says.. 🤔

Dave🙂🤞


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

I think this amp sounds great without any mods. It only sounds "soft" to my ears when it is on low gain with high impedance headphones. Once I flip it to high gain, that softness is gone. This isn't needed when the headphones have low impedance. YMMV.


----------



## Middy (Jun 20, 2021)

Honestly if your happy great.. My Dan Clark Ether 2s are 16ohm I wouldn't go back to unmodded... But no warranty for me...☹️

Note I came from a Gilmore lite MK 2 and golden PSU so the highs had a bit more sparkle and the magni 3..

Unmodded the SA1 is still better.. but got more of what I am use to +++


----------



## shwnwllms

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I think this amp sounds great without any mods. It only sounds "soft" to my ears when it is on low gain with high impedance headphones. Once I flip it to high gain, that softness is gone. This isn't needed when the headphones have low impedance. YMMV.


So far I’ve only run it low gain mostly with my 2021 LCD-X. Are you running on high gain always or switching depending on the impedance of your headphones? Would my LCD-X being a low impedance HP (20 Ohms) benefit sonically (other than more headroom) running in high gain? (I’d rather not do the DC mod for various reasons, especially if the benefits don’t outweigh the risk involved)


----------



## Lolito (Jun 20, 2021)

I have made 3 little mods in the last 2 days, so I do not know where the improvement is coming from; I learned to connect the dac directly to the computer via a usb 2.0 hub, learned audirvana upscale to 2x resolution, and then the sa-1 amp mod, so... the audirvana upscaling makes audio maybe more holographic, but also thinner, much more instrument separation, and more soundstage, but... not sure about that completely yet, but something like that. About the SA-1 jumper mod... If Currawong has done it... take the wild side of life, go crazy, like Telma & Louise, put the jumpers on and enjoy the wild life.

On a serious note, the mod sounds really better, I think, I don't have an A/B switch to test and compare with certainty, but seems like microdynamics roof has gone up. Before jumps on volumen where like limited, here there is no such a limit, and sounds more open, more soundstage maybe... All very subjective things that can be true or not...


----------



## Muataz

I think the jumper mod can degrade the sound quality as the sound pass through it. The quality of the jumpers is important like cables. The best solution bring a speaker cable cut 4 pieces each 15mm and twist it u shape and install it.


----------



## Muataz (Jun 20, 2021)

Lolito said:


> I have made 3 little mods in the last 2 days, so I do not know where the improvement is coming from; I learned to connect the dac directly to the computer via a usb 2.0 hub, learned audirvana upscale to 2x resolution, and then the sa-1 amp mod, so... the audirvana upscaling makes audio maybe more holographic, but also thinner, much more instrument separation, and more soundstage, but... not sure about that completely yet, but something like that. About the SA-1 jumper mod... If Currawong has done it... take the wild side of life, go crazy, like Telma & Louise, put the jumpers on and enjoy the wild life.
> 
> On a serious note, the mod sounds really better, I think, I don't have an A/B switch to test and compare with certainty, but seems like microdynamics roof has gone up. Before jumps on volumen where like limited, here there is no such a limit, and sounds more open, more soundstage maybe... All very subjective things that can be true or not...


I liked the audirvana upscale to 2x resolution ALOT more than what roon lab can do. But I noticed DSD upsampling was very CPU demanding so my laptop fan noise upset the experience.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

shwnwllms said:


> So far I’ve only run it low gain mostly with my 2021 LCD-X. Are you running on high gain always or switching depending on the impedance of your headphones? Would my LCD-X being a low impedance HP (20 Ohms) benefit sonically (other than more headroom) running in high gain? (I’d rather not do the DC mod for various reasons, especially if the benefits don’t outweigh the risk involved)


I have been switching the gain depending on the headphone impedance. For anything under 60 ohms, I don't hear much difference between low and high gain. But my Verite needs high gain or it sounds "soft" in transients/attack.

I don't know if your LCD X will sound better to you in high gain or not, but it wouldn't hurt to try it and hear for yourself.


----------



## DuerumBen

Muataz said:


> I think the jumper mod can degrade the sound quality as the sound pass through it. The quality of the jumpers is important like cables. The best solution bring a speaker cable cut 4 pieces each 15mm and twist it u shape and install it.


wouldnt recommend that approach cause im pretty shure you wont get a good connection on all the jumpers, think youll have more luck with the normal jumpers or you solder some quality wire in


----------



## Middy (Jun 20, 2021)

@Lolito
Same here.. always worth relooking at your set up again after new purchase..

Swapped a streamer for a pimped celeron NUC fanless with industrial memory. Custom LPS.
 I had not used for a year... Spotify premium, all the Audio changes to reduce latency in win 10 and make it audiophile friendly... Headless via phone.. Fidelizer as it's cheap..really good sounding and worth the effort doing up the nuc for headless audio..
Win 10 key was £6.89.

If you have a dedicated windows audio computer.. From pro audio to audiophile tips such as these below...
And other software like HQP ect...

Not done them all yet but from a saved Googling session.... Linux is normally best sounding but can be difficult..well for me..



https://software.intel.com/content/...-latency-part-1-configuring-the-hardware.html


https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

https://windowsreport.com/audio-lagging/

https://www.audinate.com/learning/faqs/how-can-i-tune-a-windows-pc-for-best-audio-performance


https://www.ircache.net/fix-sound-delays-lags-and-audio-latency-in-windows-10/

https://www.gearnews.com/optimize-w...04-update-20h2-edition-power-tweaks-revealed/

Hope it helps
Dave


----------



## Lolito

Last time I turned on a windows machine was 2009. For 5 million $ i would turn on a windows machine again, but otherwise, i am not touching that piece of **** ever again.

Linux or a streamer... Maybe, but i prefer simplicity. I already have a computer, i will use that one i already own.


----------



## deafenears

Lolito said:


> Last time I turned on a windows machine was 2009. For 5 million $ i would turn on a windows machine again, but otherwise, i am not touching that piece of **** ever again.
> 
> Linux or a streamer... Maybe, but i prefer simplicity. I already have a computer, i will use that one i already own.


Shame there's not really any competing Chromecast audio product on the market now - cheap dongle with SPDIF output easily controlled by phone or PC supporting casting.


----------



## Middy

The best one in the world* is the taiko extreme..custom windows server... Give you lots of change from $500000..

"SGM EXTREME – Taiko Audio" https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/product/sgm-extreme-high-end-music-server/


----------



## Jay_vs

shwnwllms said:


> So far I’ve only run it low gain mostly with my 2021 LCD-X. Are you running on high gain always or switching depending on the impedance of your headphones? Would my LCD-X being a low impedance HP (20 Ohms) benefit sonically (other than more headroom) running in high gain? (I’d rather not do the DC mod for various reasons, especially if the benefits don’t outweigh the risk involved)


I'm on high gain all the time. LCD-X to me needs the extra gain, they're more dynamic and low end is massive. Are you using balanced connection? Makes a big difference as well.


----------



## shwnwllms

Jay_vs said:


> I'm on high gain all the time. LCD-X to me needs the extra gain, they're more dynamic and low end is massive. Are you using balanced connection? Makes a big difference as well.


Yeah I’m using balanced, I’ll give high gain a go tomorrow. I was listening anywhere from 12:00-2:00 on low, my thought was keeping it the low gain made it less likely to switch to class AB but you’re probably right on needing the extra punch in the low end and I can honestly use the additional headroom at a minimum since I started EQ’ing them.


----------



## Lolito

Alien2085 said:


> Thank you 🙏 I guess it is time to follow with the jumpers upgrade, do you think any computer jumper caps from  Amazon, like this for instance (RuiLing 120-Pack 4 Color 30PCS Each Open Top 2.54mm Standard Computer Jumper Caps Shunts Short Circuit Cap
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RRTQTW3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_PSG4ZXZN03VS0CEXK5AG would suffice?


anything you need Björk


----------



## Alien2085

Lolito said:


> anything you need Björk


Appreciate, Massive Attack on Nabokov


----------



## Alien2085

Singxer sa1 is on sale on Amazon at the moment. Singxer SA-1 Fully Balanced Fully Discrete Class A Amp XLR 6.35 Single-Ended 4.4 Balanced Pre-Amp Amplifier https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QMDM631/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_2FXPN487NR8TFC06369H


----------



## Middy

If you want to go the whole hog and buy everything all in one... This has everything in one kit....each country should have something similar.. aboy £6 more than the custom bits I bought... 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1550Pcs-...-/193730205086?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286


----------



## Muataz

Muataz said:


> I think the jumper mod can degrade the sound quality as the sound pass through it. The quality of the jumpers is important like cables. The best solution bring a speaker cable cut 4 pieces each 15mm and twist it u shape and install it.


This how I did it. Pure OCC cable.


----------



## DuerumBen

Muataz said:


> This how I did it. Pure OCC cable.


well that is something i defenitly would not thought of XD


----------



## Middy

Cheapest fast delivered UK cable silver plated was 5 metres... I could mod head fi and most of Europe 😉.
This is what forums are about.. helping and best practice. I did think of direct soldering... 

Low tweaks for low latency on my NUC celeron and I keep getting more out of the Singxer...  It's a hobby that keeps on giving.... Mostly taking from my wallet..but ..


----------



## Lolito (Jun 21, 2021)

Alien2085 said:


> Appreciate, Massive Attack on Nabokov



Nabokov?? Iceland souns good for the summer of the future.



even better recorded though: 

Singxer+DCmod+ares2+bjork+raimundo BINGO!!!


----------



## Jay_vs

Looks sweet mate.


----------



## Middy

@Lolito 

The look like twins than different companies... Looks really good... Linear PSU..nice

Not. Sure if you have seen this from Darko.... 

https://darko.audio/2021/06/a-short-film-about-the-denafrips-ares-ii/

Take care🙂


----------



## Alien2085

Lolito said:


> Nabokov?? Iceland souns good for the summer of the future.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, I thought your nick was inspired by Lolita🤣, must be reading too much into it. I love Bjork, was going to see her live in NY but it got canceled.


----------



## Lolito

Alien2085 said:


> Sorry, I thought your nick was inspired by Lolita🤣, must be reading too much into it. I love Bjork, was going to see her live in NY but it got canceled.


Now I understand, LOL!!


----------



## Shoulon

Could someone help me find the origin of the jumper mod? I can't find an explanation for it. 
My SA-1 comes in next week, stoked to try it out!


----------



## Muataz

Shoulon said:


> Could someone help me find the origin of the jumper mod? I can't find an explanation for it.
> My SA-1 comes in next week, stoked to try it out!


Don't think about it. Enjoy it as it built and try to understand the sound signature and you can try it later.


----------



## equalspeace

I haven't even wrapped my mind around how good the SA-1 sounds yet and people are modding this beauty. I don't understand it.


----------



## Shoulon

Muataz said:


> Don't think about it. Enjoy it as it built and try to understand the sound signature and you can try it later.



It's definitely how I plan too. 
But I'm an Electrical Engineer at heart so going vanilla will only last a few weeks if I'm being honest lol.


----------



## Middy (Jun 22, 2021)

Think fries they are great but it's time to ketchup and get with the program....

Bah forgot how small these are will need may magnifier to solder these..
Don't know if letting my 3 year old play with£2000 headphones is great idea..

Googled nearly every win 10 pro audio tweak  I could find latency and stability.  A real uptick in SQ... Some can be done on a normal desktop this is a dedicated PC via Spotify connect.. for now but another level..... Always room for improvements...


----------



## joseG86

equalspeace said:


> I haven't even wrapped my mind around how good the SA-1 sounds yet and people are modding this beauty. I don't understand it.


Sometimes you want to check how really fast is your brand new car haha


----------



## Lolito

Shoulon said:


> Could someone help me find the origin of the jumper mod? I can't find an explanation for it.
> My SA-1 comes in next week, stoked to try it out!


The origin? like indiana jones in the lost ark? soudns like an awesome adventure... "The Search of the DC Mod Origin", soon in NetFlix.


----------



## Stompy

Has anyone else ordered the SA-1 from magnahifi? It said in stock at first but then after I ordered it said backordered  How long have you guys been waiting? I talked to one of the owners of Magnahifi and he seemed like a great guy, he said that they hadn't recieved an email response from the guys running the factory for this amp which had been shut down due to covid. Kind of in the dark. Just asking in case some of you have been waiting for like a month or have an idea of how long it'll take, cause I'll be honest I'm fine with 1-2 weeks, 3 is stretching it but I won't wait a month or more cause right now I'm without a dac or amp and am running my headphones off my motherboard *cluthes pearls*.


----------



## shwnwllms

Stompy said:


> Has anyone else ordered the SA-1 from magnahifi? It said in stock at first but then after I ordered it said backordered  How long have you guys been waiting? I talked to one of the owners of Magnahifi and he seemed like a great guy, he said that they hadn't recieved an email response from the guys running the factory for this amp which had been shut down due to covid. Kind of in the dark. Just asking in case some of you have been waiting for like a month or have an idea of how long it'll take, cause I'll be honest I'm fine with 1-2 weeks, 3 is stretching it but I won't wait a month or more cause right now I'm without a dac or amp and am running my headphones off my motherboard *cluthes pearls*.


I ordered from ShenzhenAudio, even though it was back ordered it only took a week. If magnahifi can’t give you an ETA cancel and try ShenzhenAudio (they are having a sale right now but not sure if it applies to Singxer)


----------



## Shoulon

I ordered mine from Apos, they honored a price match to the sale Shenzhen Audio was having. ($524.03)


----------



## seppukuslick (Jun 23, 2021)

So I've had this for a few days now. Paired it easily with the DacMagic200M through a balanced connection to the SA-1. Oh man the volume control is nice on this thing, it has a very satisfying turn to it. I'm quite impressed with this amp, it brought with it a nice amount of warmth, detail, and soundstage.

There's been a few moments it just blew my mind. The sheer quality of the bass is thrilling alone. Examples:

"On & On" by Erykah Badu
"Better Together" by Jack Johnson
"Isobel [Family Tree Version]" by Bjork
"Blueberry Yum Yum" by Ludacris (this one makes my ears flap and vibrate. It's chefs kiss

Cons: Not too much difference between high and low gain. Z switch should be on the bottom and gain switch should be on the front. Glaring blue light that can't be dimmed (not really an issue for me).

This is such a sweet amp!


----------



## seppukuslick

Celty said:


> I ordered a Singxer SA-1 amp on May 21st. They followed through swiftly with a price match (same day). The expected delivery by DHL was June 1st, and I received emails from Apos and DHL on May 22nd that the item was shipped!
> 
> On May 24th, Apos notified me that they had done a complementary upgrade of the shipping of my order from Priority Shipping to Express Shipping to get it to me a few days sooner. I was surprised and of course pleased. I emailed my thanks, but also let them know that the DHL tracking showed the order had been stuck on hold and had not advanced from the original location. They responded quickly that the Support Team had alerted the Transportation Manager to look into the DHL delay. I received several more updates until the 27th, when I got emails from both Apos and DHL that the shipment was advancing and DHL said they had experienced a high growth of shipments from Asia-Pacific into the U.S, which had resulted in a slight delay.
> 
> I actually got the SA-1 on May 28th. The point of all this is to say that Apos went above and beyond with their responsiveness and communication, and exceeded expectations. I cannot say that about any other vendor that I have dealt with. My thanks to Bob, Darwin, and Sheila of Apos, they are great!



This was my experience as well! First time shopping with Apos and it was a great experience. Super fast shipping!


----------



## Muataz

seppukuslick said:


> So I've had this for a few days now. Paired it easily with the DacMagic200M through a balanced connection to the SA-1. Oh man the volume control is nice on this thing, it has a very satisfying turn to it. I'm quite impressed with this amp, it brought with it a nice amount of warmth, detail, and soundstage.
> 
> There's been a few moments it just blew my mind. The sheer quality of the bass is thrilling alone. Examples:
> 
> ...


If you have Focal Clear MG, you will enjoy a detailed and control bass like no other.
I don't know why but focal headphone enjoy the bass control from this amp. the impedance for the bass region goes to 300 ohm then dip to 80 and not many amp can control this vary well.


----------



## Stompy

shwnwllms said:


> I ordered from ShenzhenAudio, even though it was back ordered it only took a week. If magnahifi can’t give you an ETA cancel and try ShenzhenAudio (they are having a sale right now but not sure if it applies to Singxer)


For me the real question is this: I just asked Shenzen audio through the live chat function if they have it in stock, they said no but that might have it in 3-5 days again, my question is if I can trust that or not, cause from what I heard the EU stores have no clue when it'll be back in stock. I asked if it was a guess or if they had been told this by Singxer, but no reply so far.


----------



## Lolito

Stompy said:


> Has anyone else ordered the SA-1 from magnahifi? It said in stock at first but then after I ordered it said backordered  How long have you guys been waiting? I talked to one of the owners of Magnahifi and he seemed like a great guy, he said that they hadn't recieved an email response from the guys running the factory for this amp which had been shut down due to covid. Kind of in the dark. Just asking in case some of you have been waiting for like a month or have an idea of how long it'll take, cause I'll be honest I'm fine with 1-2 weeks, 3 is stretching it but I won't wait a month or more cause right now I'm without a dac or amp and am running my headphones off my motherboard *cluthes pearls*.



I ordered mine from MagnaHifi, you can trust them and they can reserve yours, once they get it they tell you inmediately, then you can pay and they ship it inmediately. Here in classifieds you have them in stock for sale.


----------



## shwnwllms

Middy said:


> Think fries they are great but it's time to ketchup and get with the program....
> 
> Bah forgot how small these are will need may magnifier to solder these..
> Don't know if letting my 3 year old play with£2000 headphones is great idea..
> ...


I can’t decide if you are braver for putting those headphones on your 3 year old or doing the DC jumper mod.


----------



## Middy (Jun 23, 2021)

A week and I think for mine I amazoned it but most here said it was silly fast delivery from China..no slow boat..

Some people where asking on face book about the mod. IFI said thier DAC  was +_12mv


The wiki says this : as a guide
I hope.this helps.... If you get a figure from your DAC support or measure it yourself....


----------



## shwnwllms

Stompy said:


> For me the real question is this: I just asked Shenzen audio through the live chat function if they have it in stock, they said no but that might have it in 3-5 days again, my question is if I can trust that or not, cause from what I heard the EU stores have no clue when it'll be back in stock. I asked if it was a guess or if they had been told this by Singxer, but no reply so far.


I bought an X16 and the SA-1 at the same time from ShenzhenAudio. X16 shipped immediately and they told me might be another week on the SA-1. The SA-1 arrived at my door 4 days after the X16. They also just issued a refund down to their sale price on both and were a pleasure to deal with. This was my first time buying from them but my experience was positive and I’d say they are trustworthy. There are going to be circumstances out of their control but they stuck to and beat the ETA on the SA-1 they gave me when I ordered.


----------



## Middy

shwnwllms said:


> I can’t decide if you are braver for putting those headphones on your 3 year old or doing the DC jumper mod.


Funny as he was randomly nodding.... Slayer... Clair De lune and EDM...

No... I am crazy on both counts... Don't feel pressured by us here but get the info to give you that confidence.. ..
Currawong tried a few so gave me more confidence... Pandora's box has been opened and it need a tx8 or Allen key set... 👍🤔


----------



## Middy (Jun 24, 2021)

This hobby is just crazy people with headphones ..The difference is the Asylum's front door is open with 'All welcome please come in' on the sign...

So small.. I am getting old, this was a pain.. wire hard to strip.. wife came home to find me on the bedroom floor. With my soldering gear so I can do it and watch baby on the camera next door. Not the garage... Got flux on the carpet.. ultra sonic cleaned in 100% IPA and deoxit...

@Muataz How the hell did you do yours so tight... My wire is thick High voltage. Sleeving... You must have tiny Elf fingers😁
Good job sir..👏.  🤜🤛


----------



## aravaioli (Jun 25, 2021)

Stompy said:


> For me the real question is this: I just asked Shenzen audio through the live chat function if they have it in stock, they said no but that might have it in 3-5 days again, my question is if I can trust that or not, cause from what I heard the EU stores have no clue when it'll be back in stock. I asked if it was a guess or if they had been told this by Singxer, but no reply so far.





Stompy said:


> For me the real question is this: I just asked Shenzen audio through the live chat function if they have it in stock, they said no but that might have it in 3-5 days again, my question is if I can trust that or not, cause from what I heard the EU stores have no clue when it'll be back in stock. I asked if it was a guess or if they had been told this by Singxer, but no reply so far.


I ordered many times from Shenzhenaudio and they never let me down. If anything, they exceeded my expectations. I no longer order chifi items from European distributors because I actually get faster deliveries from Shenzhenaudio. Added bonus is that I have never paid any Customs duties from their shipments; I am in the UK so in other countries the Customs may be more severe.


----------



## Stompy

aravaioli said:


> I ordered many times from Shenzhenaudio and they never let me down. If anything, they exceeded my expectations. I no longer order chifi items from European distributors because I actually get faster deliveries from Shenzhenaudio. Added bonus is that I have never paid any Customs duties from their shipments; I am in the UK so in other countries the Customs may be more severe.



Actually Magnahifi (the NL store I ordered from) said that they are getting a shipment at the end of next week hopefully for anyone else reading this and wondering if an EU store has it in stock. I'd wait and call them later next week to find out. 

As for the import tax that's cause you're not in the EU, we however do need to dish out an extra 25%. Man I am so freaking amped to get this amp. Yes I went there.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Have had this amp for over a month now, and it is just fantastic. No regrets at all for this purchase. This leaves the THX amps and Jot 2 in the dust. It makes everything sound nice and clear but without treble harshness. This is the ZMF Verite of amps.


----------



## Lolito

Stompy said:


> Actually Magnahifi (the NL store I ordered from) said that they are getting a shipment at the end of next week hopefully for anyone else reading this and wondering if an EU store has it in stock. I'd wait and call them later next week to find out.
> 
> As for the import tax that's cause you're not in the EU, we however do need to dish out an extra 25%. Man I am so freaking amped to get this amp. Yes I went there.



I ordered mine from them too, you can trust them, very reliable and answer by WhatsApp. The carry also hifiman all the singxer line and other stuff too. Great to have some reliable resellers like them in EU. Hope they get more stuff to sell. Netherlands has very good logistics, and customer service here is better than anywhere, much better than Germany. Klanten is Konig, they say here.


----------



## Qupie

Lolito said:


> Klanten is Konig



Klant is koning, but close enough


----------



## quawn0418

Said f it, did the mod, worth it? Yes...sucks that the warranty vanishes with it though...having a hard time placing the lid back on becuase the inside looks so damn pretty lol


----------



## Lolito

quawn0418 said:


> Said f it, did the mod, worth it? Yes...sucks that the warranty vanishes with it though...having a hard time placing the lid back on becuase the inside looks so damn pretty lol


That is a sweet setup, gonna order those jumpers too, but they send a lot, was thinking on selling them, 4 jumpers pieces kit, 3€ worldwide shipping included. What do you think?

We could make it rasta, or rainbow, each jumper of a different color.


----------



## Muataz

Middy said:


> This hobby is just crazy people with headphones ..The difference is the Asylum's front door is open with 'All welcome please come in' on the sign...
> 
> So small.. I am getting old, this was a pain.. wire hard to strip.. wife came home to find me on the bedroom floor. With my soldering gear so I can do it and watch baby on the camera next door. Not the garage... Got flux on the carpet.. ultra sonic cleaned in 100% IPA and deoxit...
> 
> ...


My fingers are big  but I used small Pliers


----------



## Middy

Been playing again with the PC.. shielded the internal cables and SSD... Contact cleaned all the connections. Ram More latency tweaks... Nice as an extra layering of detail again but still mileage to go squeezing more SQ out.
The SA1 giving as good as it gets....   I'd love to see what mixed out does..
I may try this....
SRC DX but it's expensive, in my case it can clean up and bypass the USB on my Qutest..
"SRC•DX USB to DX Bridge – AudioWise" https://audiowise-canada.myshopify.com/products/src-dx-usb-to-dual-spdif-interface

I hate this hobby there's always something more....


----------



## shwnwllms

For anyone willing to wait till October, Drop has the SA-1 up for $539 😂


----------



## deafenears

quawn0418 said:


> Said f it, did the mod, worth it? Yes...sucks that the warranty vanishes with it though...having a hard time placing the lid back on becuase the inside looks so damn pretty lol


Very nice. A sheet of perspex should do it. Also swap out the RME with the anniversary edition with the clear top to match


----------



## J Mirra

I did the jumpers last night I was not expecting much as I really liked the SA-1 as it was. I was bowled over last night but I thought no do not make a write up until the morning as I have always fall into the music more on a night while relaxed.

So this morning I have jumped right on to double check and what I heard last night is still present.

Focusrite 4i4 > RCA >SA-1 >XLR >HD800 (Dupont)

Separation, every sound has its own space, width increase, depth the vocalist is out in front of me now.

Imaging, there is no glare at all to get in the way of frequencies giving a precise reality to the instruments and vocalist to my ears. (You can still hear if the engineer has pushed the limiter / compressor to hard and it is clipping, no way to get rid of that)

A real upgrade from what was already a good amp.

Thanks everyone that has posted about this.


----------



## Muataz

J Mirra said:


> I did the jumpers last night I was not expecting much as I really liked the SA-1 as it was. I was bowled over last night but I thought no do not make a write up until the morning as I have always fall into the music more on a night while relaxed.
> 
> So this morning I have jumped right on to double check and what I heard last night is still present.
> 
> ...


Good to hear you liked it.
If you have Audio-GD DAC can you tried it with SA-1.


----------



## J Mirra

Muataz said:


> Good to hear you liked it.
> If you have Audio-GD DAC can you tried it with SA-1.


The R2R-11 is softer at the further reaches of the sound stage which makes it seem like is not a wide where the 4i4 is more detailed at the left and right edges. The vocal is also softer slightly. 

The sound of the 4i4 is not harsh at all just more detailed but this is to be expected as the R2R was bought for a tube like presentation.
Pre DC mod the R2R-11 had better depth than the 4i4 but after the mod now the 4i4 has great depth.

I do like the 4i4 over the 11 with this mod one for the extra detail and width and two because I use the card for creating music and it has great low latency within Cubase.


----------



## shwnwllms

All of you taking the plunge has got me considering it for the first time. I’m very happy with it vanilla, but could it possibly get better? Any X16 owners try it yet? (I don’t have a multimeter laying around to test mine for DC leakage)


----------



## Muataz

shwnwllms said:


> All of you taking the plunge has got me considering it for the first time. I’m very happy with it vanilla, but could it possibly get better? Any X16 owners try it yet? (I don’t have a multimeter laying around to test mine for DC leakage)


I don't think any new DAC will have issue. Yours for sure.


----------



## quawn0418

shwnwllms said:


> All of you taking the plunge has got me considering it for the first time. I’m very happy with it vanilla, but could it possibly get better? Any X16 owners try it yet? (I don’t have a multimeter laying around to test mine for DC leakage)


You should only have problems with poorly designed (cheap) dacs. Just about every dac has offset, it’s about how much offset, as too much can be harmful ofcorse, don’t quote me but I think your fine, gustard makes really nice stuff.


----------



## Lolito (Jun 27, 2021)

I don't know if it was my head tricking me, or the dac or anything else, but i started getting headache with my modded sa1, like ultra sound vibrations or something like that that gives a bit of ear pain, could be just my ears, I don't know, but was getting ear pain. Again, maybe not related, but I removed the jumpers and will try again like this. Anyone else experienced this thing?

It could also be that I had two different dacs connected and on, only one playing music, but, maybe that was it? I will test and check that...


----------



## NascentAP

Lolito said:


> Nabokov?? Iceland souns good for the summer of the future.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I remember you having the E30 and now it appears you have the Ares II. Given your experience here, I guess it’s safe to assume that the E30 and the Ares II are safe to pair with a modded SA-1. That’s reassuring and thanks for posting about it.


----------



## Lolito

NascentAP said:


> I remember you having the E30 and now it appears you have the Ares II. Given your experience here, I guess it’s safe to assume that the E30 and the Ares II are safe to pair with a modded SA-1. That’s reassuring and thanks for posting about it.


No, it is never safe to assume anything. Not only I did not tested it deeply, but also I just removed the mod jumpers due to issues that might or might not be related.
Furthermore, there will never be anything safe working with this kind of extreme low quality and niché use... I mean, topping, no comments, and then Denafrips, that you have to connect the dac in such a sequence, with a usb 2.0 hub between the dac and the mac, with nothing else on that hubm, otherwise the mac doesn't even boot.

So go figure where the safety is...

Often I understand metal 571, when he says if he was starting again he would buy a magni a modi a sundara and be done with wasting time with crap for nothing worth it really, and just enjoy.


----------



## shwnwllms

Lolito said:


> I don't know if it was my head tricking me, or the dac or anything else, but i started getting headache with my modded sa1, like ultra sound vibrations or something like that that gives a bit of ear pain, could be just my ears, I don't know, but was getting ear pain. Again, maybe not related, but I removed the jumpers and will try again like this. Anyone else experienced this thing?
> 
> It could also be that I had two different dacs connected and on, only one playing music, but, maybe that was it? I will test and check that...


…and I’m back on the vanilla bus


----------



## Lolito

shwnwllms said:


> …and I’m back on the vanilla bus


Vanilla has a hell of a lot of benefits. Dark side is over rated. The avangarde comes from the French Avant Guarde, the front guard, the front line, those who die the first ones. You will not hear back from those who died, only from the Mavericks. Vanilla is fine in this crazy world.


----------



## Qupie

What DAC do you guys pair with your Singxer?


----------



## shwnwllms

Qupie said:


> What DAC do you guys pair with your Singxer?


I’m using a Gustard X16, my thoughts were to have a transparent DAC that measures well, really letting the Singxer SA-1 and HP be the star of the show. I was coming from a Multibit DAC which has its merits but I opted for technical capabilities this time. It worked out well and I’m happy with the synergy between the X16, SA-1 & LCD-X 2021.


----------



## Middy

Qupie said:


> What DAC do you guys pair with your Singxer?


mines a Chord Qutest.


----------



## Middy (Jun 27, 2021)

was going to ask have any of you guys here have tried the Singxer SU-2 in your systems..as well... I've enjoyed their headphone amp I looked again at this.... If not no worries off topic.. just synergy's..


----------



## Lolito

shwnwllms said:


> I’m using a Gustard X16, my thoughts were to have a transparent DAC that measures well, really letting the Singxer SA-1 and HP be the star of the show. I was coming from a Multibit DAC which has its merits but I opted for technical capabilities this time. It worked out well and I’m happy with the synergy between the X16, SA-1 & LCD-X 2021.


can you say the name of the multibit dac you are coming from? I just bought an Ares2 with the hype, it's like low res audio... I see what you mean.


----------



## nekky

Qupie said:


> What DAC do you guys pair with your Singxer?


Gustard X26pro and I am confident in saying that it is wonderful.


----------



## aravaioli

Stompy said:


> As for the import tax that's cause you're not in the EU, we however do need to dish out an extra 25%. Man I am so freaking amped to get this amp. Yes I went there.


Not quite, we also get 20% VAT collected by UK Customs for shipments crossing the UK border. For some reasons it seems that Customs charges are more likely to happen for shipments from the EU.


----------



## di5mal

Sounds so much better than the 888


----------



## aravaioli

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Have had this amp for over a month now, and it is just fantastic. No regrets at all for this purchase. This leaves the THX amps and Jot 2 in the dust. It makes everything sound nice and clear but without treble harshness. This is the ZMF Verite of amps.


I also prefer it in sound to the 2 THX amplifier I owned so far.


----------



## shwnwllms

Lolito said:


> can you say the name of the multibit dac you are coming from? I just bought an Ares2 with the hype, it's like low res audio... I see what you mean.


I was using a Mimby (Modi Multibit) & Vali 2 Schiit stack. I was quite happy with it and honestly the Ares 2 was the front runner for Multibit if I didn’t stick with Schiit and get the Bifrost 2. I wouldn’t say Multibit is low res, they just don’t measure well, but a well implemented one like the Ares 2 should be more musical than a Delta Sigma which can sound hollow or processed (like a cardboard cutout of the notes). I feel this is less pronounced on newer Delta Sigma DACs, there is always a trade off but it’s less pronounced on the newer chipsets. For instance I don’t get any of the Sabre glare on the X16 that plagued older Sabre DACs

Are you using the Ares 2 with USB? Some other users can speak to this better than I can but I think it has poor USB implementation and you need a filter in it before your DAC to reduce jitter.

The X16 is great, plug and play. Everything sounds the way it should. USB implementation is great and MQA is decoded on the chip itself. Everything just works. No muss no fuss, it does exactly what a DAC show do, get out of the way and it lets you enjoy the music. Are there better ones out there? Absolutely. For the money though it’s hard to beat.


----------



## Qupie (Jun 28, 2021)

Thanks, the X16 seems like a nice pairing. Also in the looks department. How do the chassis compare in size? (for some reason, that seems relevant  )

( I have no need for MQA support though, so that is a small waste but there have been plenty discussions on that  )


----------



## Middy (Jun 28, 2021)

Qupie said:


> How do the chassis compare in size? (for some reason, that seems relevant  )
> 
> ( I hav )


I wish someone had asked me that before marrying the wife...


----------



## shwnwllms (Jun 28, 2021)

Qupie said:


> Thanks, the X16 seems like a nice pairing. Also in the looks department. How do the chassis compare in size? (for some reason, that seems relevant  )
> 
> ( I have no need for MQA support though, so that is a small waste but there have been plenty discussions on that  )


They actually stack pretty well, the SA-1 is a smidge wider, but not by much (length is identical). The legs fit perfectly on top of the X16 the body just hangs over about a 1/4” on ether side. I may eventually move it to the bottom of the stack which would look better, but with the gain switches on the bottom of the SA-1 I opted for top. Pretty sure I’m not going to move it from High Gain at this point though.

***Edited to add photo***


----------



## Muataz (Jun 29, 2021)

I have HE6SE to try it with SA-1.
I can confirm Low-Gain is enough for it. But you need volume between 2 to 4-5  ( 70-90% ). but I feed it SDA-6 DAC that output 4.6V into SA-1.
At full volume it very uncomfortable load And I dial it back to 85% (4:30). Note: The volume after 3 to 5:30(max)  is not linear like the 7 to 3.

I enjoy it a lot and liked the sound more than high gain. I feel high gain not as transparent as Low, I need more relax time to listen.


----------



## Lolito

Qupie said:


> What DAC do you guys pair with your Singxer?


Denafrips ares2 and topping e30 with linear psu


----------



## Qupie

Went for the SU9, curious how that is going to match


----------



## equalspeace

Qupie said:


> Went for the SU9, curious how that is going to match



I have this combo. I like it so far


----------



## Stompy

Hey guys, I've been getting into hifi for the last few months and recently decided to pull the trigger on the SA-1 as my first amp, I'm trying to build a stack that's fairly neutral but still fun, lively, not too clinical/boring. I obviously need a dac too and have about another $500 (including VAT in EU) to spend on a dac (though I'd prefer $300-400). I was looking at the zen dac signature after I was given that rec by several people but from what I heard it's very laid back which is kind of a bad thing cause I use the HD650 as of now (and when I demo more expensive headphones I want an accurate enough impression) and obv a laid back dac + hd650 = messy for some of the music I listen to (extreme metal). Why did I get hd650 if I listen to extreme metal? It's temporary while looking for my endgame.  

So which dac (in combo with sa-1) would you recommend that is: natural sounding, not overly laid back OR analytical, neutral bass/mids/treble wise, is for desktop use and under $500 including VAT (cries in Europe). The main purpose of this stack is to have it fit a lot of headphones, as I do not yet know what my endgame will be and will use this stack to demo many cans.

Sorry if I'm still crap at describing what I want, if I'm not being clear let me know and also tell me things I should describe.


----------



## shwnwllms

Stompy said:


> Hey guys, I've been getting into hifi for the last few months and recently decided to pull the trigger on the SA-1 as my first amp, I'm trying to build a stack that's fairly neutral but still fun, lively, not too clinical/boring. I obviously need a dac too and have about another $500 (including VAT in EU) to spend on a dac (though I'd prefer $300-400). I was looking at the zen dac signature after I was given that rec by several people but from what I heard it's very laid back which is kind of a bad thing cause I use the HD650 as of now (and when I demo more expensive headphones I want an accurate enough impression) and obv a laid back dac + hd650 = messy for some of the music I listen to (extreme metal). Why did I get hd650 if I listen to extreme metal? It's temporary while looking for my endgame.
> 
> So which dac (in combo with sa-1) would you recommend that is: natural sounding, not overly laid back OR analytical, neutral bass/mids/treble wise, is for desktop use and under $500 including VAT (cries in Europe). The main purpose of this stack is to have it fit a lot of headphones, as I do not yet know what my endgame will be and will use this stack to demo many cans.
> 
> Sorry if I'm still crap at describing what I want, if I'm not being clear let me know and also tell me things I should describe.


Gustard X16, it ticks all the boxes and then some. It’s a great combo with the SA-1 as it’s very detailed and dynamic without sounding clinical. It’s surprisingly well equipped at its price point.

The only downside is the HD650 is going to be the weak point in your chain. They scale well, don’t get me wrong but you’re going to want to upgrade to take full advantage of the SA-1, regardless of the DAC you choose.


----------



## Stompy

shwnwllms said:


> Gustard X16, it ticks all the boxes and then some. It’s a great combo with the SA-1 as it’s very detailed and dynamic without sounding clinical. It’s surprisingly well equipped at its price point.
> 
> The only downside is the HD650 is going to be the weak point in your chain. They scale well, don’t get me wrong but you’re going to want to upgrade to take full advantage of the SA-1, regardless of the DAC you choose.



That's absolutely true, I do need to replace the hd650, the reason I ended up getting them was because when I initially got into headfi I was very naive thinking I could find "the one" perfect pair of cans for me, then I realized that I'd always need to compromise or, pay up, big time. I realized I'd probably be better off getting a midfi pair first so I could spend a lot more time trying stuff out and doing research, which is what I've been doing.


----------



## Qupie

Stompy said:


> Hey guys, I've been getting into hifi for the last few months and recently decided to pull the trigger on the SA-1 as my first amp, I'm trying to build a stack that's fairly neutral but still fun, lively, not too clinical/boring. I obviously need a dac too and have about another $500 (including VAT in EU) to spend on a dac (though I'd prefer $300-400). I was looking at the zen dac signature after I was given that rec by several people but from what I heard it's very laid back which is kind of a bad thing cause I use the HD650 as of now (and when I demo more expensive headphones I want an accurate enough impression) and obv a laid back dac + hd650 = messy for some of the music I listen to (extreme metal). Why did I get hd650 if I listen to extreme metal? It's temporary while looking for my endgame.
> 
> So which dac (in combo with sa-1) would you recommend that is: natural sounding, not overly laid back OR analytical, neutral bass/mids/treble wise, is for desktop use and under $500 including VAT (cries in Europe). The main purpose of this stack is to have it fit a lot of headphones, as I do not yet know what my endgame will be and will use this stack to demo many cans.
> 
> Sorry if I'm still crap at describing what I want, if I'm not being clear let me know and also tell me things I should describe.


Honestly, X16 or SU9. Both are known to be precise, but not extremely clinical. Both are having some firmware issues though you should be aware off. Gustard has some issues with stuttering while listening to DSD (firmware update is being rolled out), SMSL had some weird distortion spike in one channel (firmware is rolled out but only dealers can update it! so check with your dealer if it is an updated version). 

None of this is of my own experience btw, but I just researched the same question for like 3 days online


----------



## equalspeace

Qupie said:


> Honestly, X16 or SU9. Both are known to be precise, but not extremely clinical. Both are having some firmware issues though you should be aware off. Gustard has some issues with stuttering while listening to DSD (firmware update is being rolled out), SMSL had some weird distortion spike in one channel (firmware is rolled out but only dealers can update it! so check with your dealer if it is an updated version).
> 
> None of this is of my own experience btw, but I just researched the same question for like 3 days online



Well I can say SU-9 it's sounds pretty clean and plays DSD really well. I like it better than the DX7 Pro I had prior. I really like the sound customization options it has. Been using Crystal 2 with my HD600 with good effect.


----------



## Lolito

Stompy said:


> Hey guys, I've been getting into hifi for the last few months and recently decided to pull the trigger on the SA-1 as my first amp, I'm trying to build a stack that's fairly neutral but still fun, lively, not too clinical/boring. I obviously need a dac too and have about another $500 (including VAT in EU) to spend on a dac (though I'd prefer $300-400). I was looking at the zen dac signature after I was given that rec by several people but from what I heard it's very laid back which is kind of a bad thing cause I use the HD650 as of now (and when I demo more expensive headphones I want an accurate enough impression) and obv a laid back dac + hd650 = messy for some of the music I listen to (extreme metal). Why did I get hd650 if I listen to extreme metal? It's temporary while looking for my endgame.
> 
> So which dac (in combo with sa-1) would you recommend that is: natural sounding, not overly laid back OR analytical, neutral bass/mids/treble wise, is for desktop use and under $500 including VAT (cries in Europe). The main purpose of this stack is to have it fit a lot of headphones, as I do not yet know what my endgame will be and will use this stack to demo many cans.
> 
> Sorry if I'm still crap at describing what I want, if I'm not being clear let me know and also tell me things I should describe.



At that price, better buy a 100$ DAC, save money, then get a decent R2R or multibit dac. Or a schitt minby I think it is 2-300$... or an Audio GD... I  would suggest to get a cheap delta sigma, don't spend a lot on that, better save for other better dac type. If you can still get an AKM dac, they were the best, I have a topping E30, sounds good for a delta sigma, still very shouty and edged and flat compared to my Ares 2.


----------



## shwnwllms

Lolito said:


> At that price, better buy a 100$ DAC, save money, then get a decent R2R or multibit dac. Or a schitt minby I think it is 2-300$... or an Audio GD... I  would suggest to get a cheap delta sigma, don't spend a lot on that, better save for other better dac type. If you can still get an AKM dac, they were the best, I have a topping E30, sounds good for a delta sigma, still very shouty and edged and flat compared to my Ares 2.


FWIW the Mimby is not a good fit with the SA-1 (I’ll be selling mine soon), Bifrost 2 with its significantly better staging would be a good option though but not within his budget.


----------



## Roasty

I had mine on order with Drop, but then it got delayed and i cancelled the order.
Just ordered again from Amazon, and just got notification it has shipped out.
Was reading this thread and with regards to the jumper mod; can it be done, without doing any measurements with a voltmeter? (i have zero electrical knowledge). All i know is i can order some jumpers online and just follow the pics on this thread.


----------



## shwnwllms

Roasty said:


> I had mine on order with Drop, but then it got delayed and i cancelled the order.
> Just ordered again from Amazon, and just got notification it has shipped out.
> Was reading this thread and with regards to the jumper mod; can it be done, without doing any measurements with a voltmeter? (i have zero electrical knowledge). All i know is i can order some jumpers online and just follow the pics on this thread.


I haven’t done it, but based on my limited knowledge on the subject I wouldn’t personally without checking my DAC for DC leakage. At the very least I would make sure someone else on the forum who has done it has the same model DAC you have and didn’t fry themselves or their components. You’ve invested enough money in this hobby already at this point, a multimeter should be a no brainer to protect your headphones and source components.


----------



## Roasty

shwnwllms said:


> I haven’t done it, but based on my limited knowledge on the subject I wouldn’t personally without checking my DAC for DC leakage. At the very least I would make sure someone else on the forum who has done it has the same model DAC you have and didn’t fry themselves or their components. You’ve invested enough money in this hobby already at this point, a multimeter should be a no brainer to protect your headphones and source components.



thanks for that sound and sane advice. looks like i will have to do some more reading!


----------



## Lolito

shwnwllms said:


> FWIW the Mimby is not a good fit with the SA-1 (I’ll be selling mine soon), Bifrost 2 with its significantly better staging would be a good option though but not within his budget.


obviously, but the guy who asked has a limited budget, read his question again.


----------



## Lolito

shwnwllms said:


> I haven’t done it, but based on my limited knowledge on the subject I wouldn’t personally without checking my DAC for DC leakage. At the very least I would make sure someone else on the forum who has done it has the same model DAC you have and didn’t fry themselves or their components. You’ve invested enough money in this hobby already at this point, a multimeter should be a no brainer to protect your headphones and source components.


The multimeter makes a reading at the reading moment. If the chinese DAC lack of QC means it will leak DC, two weeks later... well. I would do the mod as advised by curra. but do not think any multimeter check will give warranty of anything.


----------



## Muataz

Roasty said:


> I had mine on order with Drop, but then it got delayed and i cancelled the order.
> Just ordered again from Amazon, and just got notification it has shipped out.
> Was reading this thread and with regards to the jumper mod; can it be done, without doing any measurements with a voltmeter? (i have zero electrical knowledge). All i know is i can order some jumpers online and just follow the pics on this thread.


One guy did measure with jumpers and without it and it is identical performance for both mods. Also he share same result to what I hear, there is no difference


----------



## Roasty

Sorry if this has been asked before, but are you guys pairing the sa1 with the sda1, sda6 or some other dac?


----------



## Muataz

Roasty said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before, but are you guys pairing the sa1 with the sda1, sda6 or some other dac?


sda6


----------



## Fly2High

Roasty said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before, but are you guys pairing the sa1 with the sda1, sda6 or some other dac?


Have mine with a Gustard X16


----------



## nekky

Roasty said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before, but are you guys pairing the sa1 with the sda1, sda6 or some other dac?


X26pro here


----------



## victorfb

I'm seeing some people relating little to no difference after the jumpers mod, and I might say this is one of the things that people hear differently. Not in taste, but the perception of sound is different from person to person.
I was about to sell my SA-1 (and keep my Jot 1) and fell in love with it after doing the mod. The improvement is so brutal I'm having difficulties trusting any reviewer that praised it without doing the mod first (as their perception is very different than mine). The difference I hear is in both timbre (much more natural) and dynamics. I always liked Currawong's work, but right now he's my #1 reviewer for sources/amps.


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## Lolito

Problem with the mod is that no body has made it with some kind of switch, so one can A/B fast, or immediately. Doing the mod, you gotta trust a lot your audio memory, which is something that can lead to a certain bias... I did the mod once, I did noticed something, but the thing gets so hot where I have it, and I started getting little pain in the ear, I was not sure maybe was related to the mod, which it was not, found it after removing it... I am now waiting for proper jumpers to do it again fine. Wihtout the mod sounds great too in my opinion, in my case I have made so many changes of dac and dac cable and headphones and headphones cables that it is hard to follow the effects of the mod with so many changes... but once it all settles, will try it again with more time to test and to get a proper opinion. It takes time to give a proper review, curra certainly has the experience and knowledge. But I think zeos goes by pure instinct sometimes... same with lachlan, great reviewer, but many times it is just the expected, but he is very critic sometimes. In the end, you gotta read between the lines of each reviewer, like in anything that involves professional review.


----------



## Lolito

About the impedance switch, which one is better for an audeze lcd2? I notice nothing really. with the sennheiser maybe, but with the audeze nothing really.


----------



## Verificateur

Is anyone pairing Singxer SA-1 with the RME ADI-2 DAC? 
How do you like it. And do you mind sharing what settings you used on the RME side to output to SA-1?


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## Lolito

Verificateur said:


> Is anyone pairing Singxer SA-1 with the RME ADI-2 DAC?
> How do you like it. And do you mind sharing what settings you used on the RME side to output to SA-1?


I'm sure it makes a great pairing, it is a great delta sigma dac.

I re-did the mod again. waiting for a balanced cable for the audeze... sounds really god. It sounded amazing already, don't know if there is much of a difference really, can't trust my audio memory, both sounded great. Maybe now more dynamic range? can do now louder fast changes in volumen, better micro dynamics? To be honest, I don't know, I can't A/B the mod, but sounds just great.




If anyone wants jumpers, I can ship them for 2€ paypal GIFT, worldwide shipping included. send me a message.


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## Lolito (Jul 11, 2021)

I undid the mod... I do not notice any improvement, I just noticed some ear pain at times, specially after adjusting volume, or making an eq preset change... not sure how or why or if related, but happened before too. I just un-modded it, also read in the nerds at ASR, not really worth it, dangerous unnecessarily, and singxer people say next versions will not have this pins for jumpers... Best part though is that, I hear no differences really. Not sure how reviewers really hear a difference...


----------



## Muataz

I had weird experiment recently.
I tired 2 DAC to power SA-1, SMSL M500 & Singxer SDA-6.

The M500 should output 6.8V and SDA-6 only 4.6V, however the sound volume is much higher with SDA-6 even it output less voltage ⚡.
I recorded a video and I will upload it later to show the volume change when I switch manually input ( only XLR ).

What could be the explanation?


----------



## Alex May

Muataz said:


> The M500 should output 6.8V and SDA-6 only 4.6V, however the sound volume is much higher with SDA-6 even it output less voltage ⚡.
> I recorded a video and I will upload it later to show the volume change when I switch manually input ( only XLR ).
> 
> What could be the explanation?


The M500 consumes only 5 watts of power. And the SDA-6 has a whooping 40-watts transformer. Current is more important here than voltage. So the SDA-6 is more powerful than the M500 regardless of the output voltage. I assume, the M500 has more output impedance, therefore, more voltage but less power. Less power = less volume.


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## Maxdalax (Jul 12, 2021)

Could someone summarise the Junper-thing for me? I thought the "mod" would just be to remove thhe jumpers which are normally in there. But now it confuses me that on the first pictures there already are no jumpers installed and when I skip here to page 80, there are some yellow new jumpers installed.


----------



## Muataz

Alex May said:


> The M500 consumes only 5 watts of power. And the SDA-6 has a whooping 40-watts transformer. Current is more important here than voltage. So the SDA-6 is more powerful than the M500 regardless of the output voltage. I assume, the M500 has more output impedance, therefore, more voltage but less power. Less power = less volume.


This what I thought, but previously I believed the output voltage is correlated with volume level but know I witness something else.


----------



## Zyma

I want to ask one question. Can sa-1 and SU-9 can fully drive Heddphone ? I know that it great with arya.


----------



## Alex May

Maxdalax said:


> Could someone summarise the Junper-thing for me? I thought the "mod" would just be to remove thhe jumpers which are normally in there.


It's the other way around. There are no jumpers by default. The point of the mod is to install the jumpers in order to bypass the capacitors that protect the output circuit from the DC offset. And this action already voids your warranty (the cover is sealed). The amp is protected by the capacitors from the DC offset by default. DC offset is a constant voltage plus or minus in the signal. As the signal hits a certain level, the DC offset can potentially damage your expensive headphone or the amp itself. Keep in mind that no replacement can be provided for the headphone if the damage occurs due to the user's actions like modifying the amplifier.

The improvement to the sound quality due to this mod is questionable. Most likely, you will gain a little bit of microdynamics from bypassing the capacitors. But losing the protection and warranty is not worth it.


----------



## Maxdalax

Alex May said:


> It's the other way around. There are no jumpers by default. The point of the mod is to install the jumpers in order to bypass the capacitors that protect the output circuit from the DC offset. And this action already voids your warranty (the cover is sealed). The amp is protected by the capacitors from the DC offset by default. DC offset is a constant voltage plus or minus in the signal. As the signal hits a certain level, the DC offset can potentially damage your expensive headphone or the amp itself. Keep in mind that no replacement can be provided for the headphone if the damage occurs due to the user's actions like modifying the amplifier.
> 
> The improvement to the sound quality due to this mod is questionable. Most likely, you will gain a little bit of microdynamics from bypassing the capacitors. But losing the protection and warranty is not worth it.


Thank you for your help. 

Just to be able to assess the risk: Is this protection in all the headphone amps or are most amps without this? How do you assess the risk?


----------



## Verificateur

Is anyone using the SA-1 with HE6SE? Is it able to fully drive them?


----------



## brianfromspace

Anyone using Diana V2 w/SA-1?


----------



## Alex May

Maxdalax said:


> Is this protection in all the headphone amps or are most amps without this? How do you assess the risk?


All the quality amps should guarantee an appropriate signal processing that would meet technical requirements for the output signal to be safe for any appropriate headphone. That's why I would stay on the safe side and use my gear as directed by the manufacturer without modifying anything.


----------



## Muataz

Verificateur said:


> Is anyone using the SA-1 with HE6SE? Is it able to fully drive them?


I have he6se loan from a friend, yes it can driven with low gain but at 90% with volume for some songs, but with high gain you have more volume to play with.


----------



## Muataz

brianfromspace said:


> Anyone using Diana V2 w/SA-1?


it is much easer than HE6se, so SA-1 can blow it up if you want.


----------



## Verificateur

Muataz said:


> I have he6se loan from a friend, yes it can driven with low gain but at 90% with volume for some songs, but with high gain you have more volume to play with.


Thank you!
Also, wanted to ask if SA-1 can be used with IEMs on the more sensitive side, when on Low gain (like the Gustard H16 can, for example), or is it a no go as SA-1 is too powerful/introduces hissing?


----------



## Maxdalax

Alex May said:


> All the quality amps should guarantee an appropriate signal processing that would meet technical requirements for the output signal to be safe for any appropriate headphone. That's why I would stay on the safe side and use my gear as directed by the manufacturer without modifying anything.


Currawong on youtube said it wouldnt matter because you still don´t damage your hadphones if you don´t turn the volume too high. He says thats just all about it when it comes to damaging headphones with the amp


----------



## brianfromspace

Soundnews said noise floor was really low, so perfect for IEM's


----------



## deafenears

Verificateur said:


> Is anyone using the SA-1 with HE6SE? Is it able to fully drive them?


Yes, I'm using the SA-1 with a HE6SEv2 and it drives it fine. I'm running it in high gain though, as ASR showed no penalty for high gain.



Verificateur said:


> Also, wanted to ask if SA-1 can be used with IEMs on the more sensitive side, when on Low gain (like the Gustard H16 can, for example), or is it a no go as SA-1 is too powerful/introduces hissing?


Seems to be, I do have a few IEMs myself but haven't yet tried with the SA-1 (have dongles that I use and use headphones when at desk where the SA-1 is at). See https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...most-quiet-balanced-headphone-amp-png.129582/


----------



## Lolito

has plenty of power, it drives anything really in low gain and SE. If you want louder, go hi gain and balanced. Balanced sounds better, but I am using a new audeze by single ended, sounds great already.


----------



## Maxdalax

Lolito just sent jumpers to me like he offered here in the forum. Very nice guy!


----------



## joseG86

Maxdalax said:


> Lolito just sent jumpers to me like he offered here in the forum. Very nice guy!


Lolito es god tier


----------



## deafenears

Lolito said:


> has plenty of power, it drives anything really in low gain and SE. If you want louder, go hi gain and balanced. Balanced sounds better, but I am using a new audeze by single ended, sounds great already.


If you wanted to go even louder, go SE in, balanced out.

SA-1 headphone amplifier gains:

1. Single-ended input, single-ended output: low gain is 0db, high gain is 11db;
2. Single-ended input, balanced output: low gain is 6db, high gain is 17db;
3. Balanced input, single-ended output: low gain is -6db, high gain is 5db;
4. Balanced input, balanced output: low gain is 0db, high gain is 11db;


----------



## gdwallasign

Arrived yesterday l


Verificateur said:


> Thank you!
> Also, wanted to ask if SA-1 can be used with IEMs on the more sensitive side, when on Low gain (like the Gustard H16 can, for example), or is it a no go as SA-1 is too powerful/introduces hissing?


I've been having the most fun with the iems in the 36 hours I've owned it.


----------



## Muataz

deafenears said:


> If you wanted to go even louder, go SE in, balanced out.
> 
> SA-1 headphone amplifier gains:
> 
> ...


It is not what look like.

Usually with RCA you have lower voltage around 2V so the amp will amplify 6db so it will match Balance input in terms of volume level


----------



## Lolito

deafenears said:


> If you wanted to go even louder, go SE in, balanced out.
> 
> SA-1 headphone amplifier gains:
> 
> ...


not sure those maths are correct or not correct, but SE input has a 6db Boost, but because RCA will come with less power than XLR. This amp certainly levels the inputs, you can A/B RCA and XLR, and will sound exactly same level if they are both matched at max volume.


----------



## Middy (Jul 14, 2021)

Hi gents still loving the Singxer but I've managed to get a lot more from my setup...
1. My Qutest from the high-end sites bypassing the USB with  SRC-DX DDC into the coalxial BNC. You can keep the USB chain but miss the Qutests not so good USB controller..very nice boost.

Some of us have used shielding cables or a metal case some copper tape....
EMI RFI have specialist EEs just working on this or either Regulations , functional issues or testing...
So what.. the guys designing this did that before selling it....hmmm the design is set in stone..

I've no EE skills Industrial EMC testing or a lab but i do have scissors a screwdriver and EMI absorbing tape..

So?
The SRC DX designers other designs are RFI EMI reduction based...
This got me researching for layman explanations.. Basically theres sources and victims in components...CPUs Ram clocks and others can cause disruptions through various mechanisms affecting the device or circuit ...just noise... some more than others... and that can degrade your final output signal..


An oversimplified but informative info
https://hollandshielding.com/Flexible-EMI-absorber-sheets

https://interferencetechnology.com/...ctromagnetic-noise-absorber-technology-1/amp/

Off this i bought some...it might not be perfect for the specific mhz range but it was £10 for a big roll.... and its Industrial...  3M AB5010 I later the 5030 5050..

I've tried it on parts of my entire and had good results some minor but my Qutest the most..

I wasn't sure about analogue..the SA1 but as I'd done the the MOD...Try the end of my chain.


I quickly did the ICs the MOD links, the lid for reflections and the roughly around the dual meanwell's
I am going to make Mu metal shields bonded to the chassis EMI absorbing material under the shield...
But a touch more again in SQ IMHO in the chain.. ill do more details but the tape is easy to remove..

All of this was luck and just trying to reduce EMI RFI accumulatively.  very nice.
Ill do the Power shield properly with a drain and see what happens....

Just another avenue to consider, most won't but its there for people to disprove,  improve or ignore...

For example in the Qutest..

Ill do picture when i finish and report back with more details... read the 2 article links as thats my main information..... but a change by trying... 
Even just some advice from more knowledgeable would be gratefully recieved.... so much to get your head around so all i did was luck...

My journey was added to this thread...all a bit of fun but worked out quite nicely..

Cheap and easy bur feel free to rip apart anything i did wrong. I just followed some basic principles and fingers crossed for every part of my chain...


----------



## deafenears (Jul 14, 2021)

Muataz said:


> It is not what look like.
> 
> Usually with RCA you have lower voltage around 2V so the amp will amplify 6db so it will match Balance input in terms of volume level





Lolito said:


> not sure those maths are correct or not correct, but SE input has a 6db Boost, but because RCA will come with less power than XLR. This amp certainly levels the inputs, you can A/B RCA and XLR, and will sound exactly same level if they are both matched at max volume.


Ah right, these all make sense. IIUC, there isn't really a standard for 2V SE and 4V balanced but it seems to be widely used. Chord DACs for example, outputs 3V SE and 6V balanced. With some others 5V balanced.

Those numbers were from the SA-1 designer/engineer himself from https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...lanced-headphone-amp.23365/page-6#post-781775


----------



## Lolito

deafenears said:


> Ah right, these all make sense. IIUC, there isn't really a standard for 2V SE and 4V balanced but it seems to be widely used. Chord DACs for example, outputs 3V SE and 6V balanced. With some others 5V balanced.
> 
> Those numbers were from the SA-1 designer/engineer himself from https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...lanced-headphone-amp.23365/page-6#post-781775


yes, those numbers are correct, what is not correct is assuming SE will be louder, because of that 6db boost, but you didn't count on rca being half voltage of xlr. Long sotry short, that 6db is to make them same level, no effective boost.


----------



## Muataz

deafenears said:


> Ah right, these all make sense. IIUC, there isn't really a standard for 2V SE and 4V balanced but it seems to be widely used. Chord DACs for example, outputs 3V SE and 6V balanced. With some others 5V balanced.
> 
> Those numbers were from the SA-1 designer/engineer himself from https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...lanced-headphone-amp.23365/page-6#post-781775


Chord Hugo2 can output 5V out of it RCA, so you can push the amp more in this situation. ( I don't know if it will clip or not )


----------



## godmax (Jul 16, 2021)

A Sing(x)er Must Die .... today I switched on my SA-1 once more, but the led remains now permanently red and produces no sound in headphone or pre-amp mode (should be blue) regardless if load connected or not. According to the „manual“ this indicates the overload protection.
Anyone experienced this yet?


----------



## Middy

Sorry no..


----------



## hottyson (Jul 15, 2021)

godmax said:


> A Sing(x)er Must Die .... today I switched on my SA-1 once more, but the led remains now permanently red and produces no sound in headphone or per-amp mode (should be blue) regardless if load connected or not. According to the „manual“ this indicates the overload protection.
> Anyone experienced this yet?


Oh crap! Do you have it under warranty?

And, did you do the bypass mod?


----------



## gdwallasign

Had a magic  moment with my few day old baby singxer today. Haven't been able to get much time with it because stuff. Love it.


----------



## godmax

hottyson said:


> Oh crap! Do you have it under warranty?
> 
> And, did you do the bypass mod?


I hope to get it repaired/replaced by warranty, working on that.
My unit was completely unmodified, I did not even open it.


----------



## hottyson

godmax said:


> I hope to get it repaired/replaced by warranty, working on that.
> My unit was completely unmodified, I did not even open it.


Well, that is good to hear. I hope that this is not too common for the Singxer SA-1 to break down. It is my favorite amp in regards to quality per dollar. Good luck with the warranty. I hope it all works out for you. Let us know what happens.


----------



## Maxdalax

godmax said:


> A Sing(x)er Must Die .... today I switched on my SA-1 once more, but the led remains now permanently red and produces no sound in headphone or pre-amp mode (should be blue) regardless if load connected or not. According to the „manual“ this indicates the overload protection.
> Anyone experienced this yet?


Hey was this problem from day 1 on? It makes me concerned if I should wait a bit with the modification


----------



## godmax

Maxdalax said:


> Hey was this problem from day 1 on? It makes me concerned if I should wait a bit with the modification


No, I have the SA-1 for more the 3 month now and just failed yesterday. So that should not prevent you from your planned modification, but if it fails in the future you may not get a warranty replacement for it.


----------



## joseG86

godmax said:


> No, I have the SA-1 for more the 3 month now and just failed yesterday. So that should not prevent you from your planned modification, but if it fails in the future you may not get a warranty replacement for it.


Was it modified with dc mod?


----------



## Maxdalax

Hey everyone, I heard the Singxer SA-1 jumper mod can be dangerous if the plugged in DAC has no DC output voltage protection-whatever..... Dies anybody know what is meant with that and if my Chord Qutests RCA output is on the risky side in this case?


----------



## Alex May

Maxdalax said:


> Hey everyone, I heard the Singxer SA-1 jumper mod can be dangerous if the plugged in DAC has no DC output voltage protection-whatever..... Dies anybody know what is meant with that and if my Chord Qutests RCA output is on the risky side in this case?


I explained it here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-16452035
Chord Qutest should be fine. However, you're strongly advised not to perform any modifications regardless if your DAC has a problem with DC or not. Any modification is always performed at your own risk and responsibility. You will be void of warranty. If anything happens, even if the fault is not due to the mod or DC whatsoever, you will not be able to replace this amp. Your $600 will be gone.


----------



## Middy

As alex says.. but my Qutest sounds better with it...if you read back i asked Chord support..


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Muataz said:


> Chord Hugo2 can output 5V out of it RCA, so you can push the amp more in this situation. ( I don't know if it will clip or not )


how to do 5v out of Hugo 2?


----------



## Roasty

what an amazing little amp!
it is a perfect pairing with the Utopia! i posted in the Utopia thread; this amp reminds me of the DNA Stellaris.
great build quality too.


----------



## naynay

Maxdalax said:


> Hey everyone, I heard the Singxer SA-1 jumper mod can be dangerous if the plugged in DAC has no DC output voltage protection-whatever..... Dies anybody know what is meant with that and if my Chord Qutests RCA output is on the risky side in this case?


A few members on this forum as well as myself use the Qutest with Singxer jump mod with no issues.
I didn't go as far as to try the Dave though a bit to risky.


----------



## Maxdalax

Middy said:


> As alex says.. but my Qutest sounds better with it...if you read back i asked Chord support..


Could you tell me more about it since this here is 83 pages now?


----------



## Voxata

Selling my unit as the headphones I'm using primarily no longer require much, in case anyone is interested.


----------



## Stompy

Got mine today, it even make the 650s bass sound good lmao. Seriously though between the amazing changes in bass and how it makes headphones sound ALIVE this is great for me. Keep in mind I'm very new to the audio enthusiast community but I've still demo'd the Moon by Simaudio, burson conductor series, soloist, dragonfly red, ifi zen sig bundle. 

I know I can't really compare it well yet since I'm new but my headphones SING. So engaging. The bass control is so good that I can honestly listen to metal on the hd650s and enjoy which says a lot. Dac is Zen dac sig for anyone wondering.


----------



## Stompy (Jul 16, 2021)

Also I'm curious since I'm running single ended now; how big is the difference between SE and XLR? I'm running XLR between the dac and the amp but not to the HP. I've already spent quite a lot and thought the HP cable being balanced would be the least important, I've seen mixed replies of how important it is. Also, if it makes a difference big enough to warrant buying a new cable, could someone give some sub 100 euro suggestions in europe for sennheiser cables (I have 650 and will have 580 next week) shipping times are long from outside europe and import tax is 25%.


----------



## Middy (Jul 16, 2021)

Maxdalax said:


> Could you tell me more about it since this here is 83 pages now?


They said they worked very hard to ensure there was no DC offset...

If you use the USB in..as a Chord Qutest owner... get one of these..not a fancy PSU or any cable make this as your next upgrade..

"SRC•DX USB to DX Bridge – AudioWise" https://audiowise-canada.myshopify.com/products/src-dx-usb-to-dual-spdif-interface

And if your Qutest is out of warranty then consider doing this as you can gain nice SQ from shielding the noisy ICs clocks... 3M AB5010 and AB5050
I have gone through my chain including the Singxer.. i now have  a superior sounding set up.  Doing both + Singxer mod.
If you do the Singxer MOD read back through this thread for help warnings and get an esd mat and strap...

But yes from Chord no DC offset

I might do a guide on the Qutest thread but Rob might moan.. i can only honestly say shielding changed the sound and i liked it.

Like the Singxer MOD...but thats just as easy and surprisingly good


----------



## naynay

@Middy How old is your Chord Qutest as opening the case voids the warranty?


----------



## Middy

naynay said:


> @Middy How old is your Chord Qutest as opening the case voids the warranty?


Over 2 years but there's no sneeky security sticker.... The EMI absorbing tape is a tiny giveaway  but can be removed.... Took me a week for the SA1... ill be adding more soon as i was Conservative with the Qutest and Doing the meanwells in the SA1.
From what i read they are noisey...

Just to see what works and works well..


----------



## Lolito

for those who made the mod, what were the sound differences? if there are 2 dacs connected, the mod acts backwards? like worse quality sound, have you guys checked that?


----------



## Voxata

Middy said:


> They said they worked very hard to ensure there was no DC offset...
> 
> If you use the USB in..as a Chord Qutest owner... get one of these..not a fancy PSU or any cable make this as your next upgrade..
> 
> ...


What in the world are you using there


----------



## Middy

I based the experiment off the below principles as best i could...for EMI RFI shielding and what compenents can cause issues creating noise like the Spartan FPGA processor and Clocks.

I tried some and think it sounds cleaner and open.. i was sick of no real improvements, Than minor cable and power upgrades. Rob W saying less RF noise from using Battery or Toshlink...


I tried the Tape in my chain including the SA1 as the warranty ship has already sailed... with the jumper mod.

But its comfort zones.. don't do any Mod if you don't want to and be happy.

Others have shown the incoming USB isn't that good compared to the BNC in. Ie using  DDC converter but this sounds good:. PC> USB chain>  SRC DX DDC> Into single or dual coaxial BNC. 

quoted from above
An oversimplified but informative info
https://hollandshielding.com/Flexible-EMI-absorber-sheets

https://interferencetechnology.com/...ctromagnetic-noise-absorber-technology-1/amp/

Off this i bought some...it might not be perfect for the specific mhz range but it was £10 for a big roll.... and its Industrial... 3M AB5010 I later the 5030 5050


----------



## DuerumBen

Stompy said:


> Also I'm curious since I'm running single ended now; how big is the difference between SE and XLR? I'm running XLR between the dac and the amp but not to the HP. I've already spent quite a lot and thought the HP cable being balanced would be the least important, I've seen mixed replies of how important it is. Also, if it makes a difference big enough to warrant buying a new cable, could someone give some sub 100 euro suggestions in europe for sennheiser cables (I have 650 and will have 580 next week) shipping times are long from outside europe and import tax is 25%.


you hear less the difference between the cables but more the difference of the outputs of the Amp, as a rule of thumb if the amp is a balanced desine the balaced outout sounds often better then the singlended one (LP as an extreme example )
For a decend cable you could use this one or build your one for a bit less


----------



## Roasty

https://www.amazon.com/mxuteuk-Alum...1&keywords=volume+knob&qid=1626594537&sr=8-19

is this the knob that can fit the SA-1?


----------



## Alex May

Roasty said:


> https://www.amazon.com/mxuteuk-Alum...1&keywords=volume+knob&qid=1626594537&sr=8-19
> 
> is this the knob that can fit the SA-1?


Yes.


----------



## Middy

I was going to swap the knob but its ok for me as it is..
I am already satisfied with my large one...
Plus..
Don't want to effect the warranty on my SA1...🤣


----------



## Lolito

Alex May said:


> Yes.


34mm fits? this was discussed earlier in the thread, can't remember the number. But it is a recessed pot for the knob, so better be same diameter as original, or smaller, otherwise it can not grab the pot axle.


----------



## equalspeace

If you burn in the SA-1 sufficiently I see no reason do any modding. This amp pushes the HD 600 incredibly well in its stock state. On high gain I don't need to go past 10 o'clock w the volume knob and I get ridiculously full sound. This has been hard to accomplish with solid state amps w the 600. The Atom does a good job regarding fullness as well, but the sound isn't as separated on the stage, and I get faster attack/decay and effortless layering when things get busy in classical passages with the SA-1. So I'm def in the no need to mod camp as it stands.


----------



## Maxdalax

Middy said:


> They said they worked very hard to ensure there was no DC offset...
> 
> If you use the USB in..as a Chord Qutest owner... get one of these..not a fancy PSU or any cable make this as your next upgrade..
> 
> ...


Thank you so mich for the advice. How do I find this Isolation mat? How is it called? 

Also could you explain to me how the usb Interface changes the sound? I think it is a digital upscaler that works with a software. Aß far as I understand it wouldnt scale up music listened with Qobuz or tidal which are my main sources.
Would be great if you could tell me a bit about it.


----------



## Middy

Maxdalax said:


> Thank you so mich for the advice. How do I find this Isolation mat? How is it called?
> 
> Also could you explain to me how the usb Interface changes the sound? I think it is a digital upscaler that works with a software. Aß far as I understand it wouldnt scale up music listened with Qobuz or tidal which are my main sources.
> Would be great if you could tell me a bit about it.


Its not an upscaler its a USB2.0 to coaxial converter.DDC Too much to type here and a bit off topic...but makes my SA1 sing... The Asian guys who have mega bucks systems and Chord Daves..20k PCs.. use this to bypass the Amanero Chord usb in.. The BNC coaxial in is much better sounding.. your USB chain stays the same but just plugged into the single or dual BNC.
Here is the AS SRC DX thread and my experiments using 3M AB5010 0.1mm Emi absorbing/ attenuation tape.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...s-with-the-chord-qutest-before-moving-to-tt2/

The SrC DX just improves all aspects and shows what the Qutest can really do.
Think sound noise reduction for the tape with noisy neighbours... The attenuation frequency might not right for this tape but i got it for £10 off amazon and Ebay and got lucky... incremental gains across all my chain..
Even the singxer SA1....DC cables, PC Intona Ect..

Cheers

Dave


----------



## naynay

If you have plenty of free storage to use then PGGB remastero is the way to go.


----------



## Maxdalax

So I just recieved the jumpers by Lolito, set them in my SA-1 and compared. There is a change in sound and it is well worth to mod in my opinion.
Sound gets more air while there is just a better dynamic. It´s less dark sounding in a positive way and still bass feels a bit more impactfull.

I like my combination with the Qutest. Looking forward to read more about the suggested SRC-DX and maybe get one (what seems to be hard here in germany).


Lolito sent me more than one set of jumpers so I see it as my duty to send some to the german guys here that would like some for what shipping costs me.


----------



## naynay

Maxdalax said:


> Looking forward to read more about the suggested SRC-DX and maybe get one (what seems to be hard here in germany).


There is a UK supplier for the SRC-DX which may be better if you decide to buy.


----------



## Roasty

Anyone rolling power cords with the sa1? 

I tried AQ tornado source, atlas eos4dd, twl obsession and wywires platinum digital. 

The wywires and twl obsession sounded the best to me. Atlas was the thinnest sounding but with the best separation. AQ had the lushest sound but a bit crowded/congested with busy passages.


----------



## Middy

Nick ships them really fast.. get a simple female to female cctv adapter for now...


----------



## Maxdalax

If I dont want to use upscaling (because I am streaming music) is then the singxer SU-1 a good alternative to the SRC DX?


----------



## Middy

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BNC-MALE...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EMI-Abso...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0


----------



## Middy

Maxdalax said:


> If I dont want to use upscaling (because I am streaming music) is then the singxer SU-1 a good alternative to the SRC DX?


I am not upscaling at all... 330 Spotify until lossless comes out... single into one bnc port only..

Computer  a few USB cleaners SRC DX then into Qutest...


----------



## Alex May

Lolito said:


> 34mm fits? this was discussed earlier in the thread, can't remember the number. But it is a recessed pot for the knob, so better be same diameter as original, or smaller, otherwise it can not grab the pot axle.


Yes, it fits. The post about it was here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-16144315


----------



## Maxdalax

Middy said:


> I am not upscaling at all... 330 Spotify until lossless comes out... single into one bnc port only..
> 
> Computer  a few USB cleaners SRC DX then into Qutest...


So in this use case as a usb to coaxial bridge it does basically the same as the singxer su-2/6 right?
So ist would be interesting how these would compare


----------



## Muataz (Jul 19, 2021)

TheMiddleSky said:


> how to do 5v out of Hugo 2?


You need to start with line out mode which give 3v, then maybe you need 8 clicks to reach 5v ?! I don't know but I remember my mojo I click it down 4 clicks to go from 3 to 2 volt.


----------



## Middy

Maxdalax said:


> So in this use case as a usb to coaxial bridge it does basically the same as the singxer su-2/6 right?
> So ist would be interesting how these would compare


I've only heard of one comparison of the X-spdif 2.. for the price the SRC-DX Singxer makes sense, I heard someone preferred the DX than the Kitsune version... That's what pushed me to try the DX.... i can't find the reference sorry

But always examine all avenue of what may be best.

I was searching for 1 year before I got the Singxer SA1.. with its Mod was perfect for me....

Good luck whatever you decide Max.
PM me if i can help and not go off topic here as its a little rude.

The Singxer SA1 keeps improving with what you feed it...

David 🙂👍


----------



## Maxdalax

Middy said:


> I've only heard of one comparison of the X-spdif 2.. for the price the SRC-DX Singxer makes sense, I heard someone preferred the DX than the Kitsune version... That's what pushed me to try the DX.... i can't find the reference sorry
> 
> But always examine all avenue of what may be best.
> 
> ...


Hi Middy, thank you for your answer and the offer to contact you personally. I appreciate that a lot. And sorry for inappropriately going off-topic. Since I just jumped into this 84 pages long thread without going through all the messages I didn´t see the level of focus on the main topic.
Could you explain to me a bit how you see the chords improvement with the src dx without upsampling? Would you still rate the sound improvement with steaming services (Qobus/ Tidal) higher than with a good power supply?
I see high gains in better power supplies so it shocked me to read, that this usb bridge may be even more significant.


----------



## Middy (Jul 20, 2021)

Deleted double post.. i am getting old..


----------



## Middy (Jul 20, 2021)

@Maxdalax


The truth is i can't and thats the reason i nearly didn't get the SRC DX. I thought my system wasn't good enough. Daves and TT2s with Mscalers only.  I was thinking about it when the UK supplier tried it on Single BNC for fun for me.

I saw this as it was released and dismissed it for my Qutest. Not until i got the Singxer did i get the urge again to try and improve my chain as the SingxerAMP sounds so good.

The Amanero USB is to slow to other new USB chips and causes latency....
These latencies can be bypassed by a good USB2.0 converter. The DX is unofficially designed for the Chords up to 24 bit 786 I think.. The streamer doesn't matter as its converted at the end. People are using HQP and PGGB files upscaling via software with tidal Qobuz. This end conversion to Coaxial allows the Chords to shine and let is real capabilities be heard.. like taking the breaks off and sound great with my new Singxer Sa1... not 10x .. Internet descriptions can be exaggerated and lead to buyer regret.. many times with me.. it makes it sound better... you can only say how much...
I found the power supply and extra DXP-1A5DSC separate LT3045s subtle but polished only. No great leap.. The change to bypassing the final Chords USB in is not.. not huge Qutest to Dave but very nice. My experiments with EMI  absorbing each stage was like another small  new power supply... 2% _4%. up each time..

I'd described it as like the Singxer MOD a change but this is focus and clarity.

Even doing the Singxer  SA1 got a small improvement for me... with the shielding and pure luck... i need to finish the Meanwell power supplies..

 But read the SRC DX thread linked

"Audiowise Opto-USB, SRC-DX and early experiments with the Chord Qutest before moving to TT2 - DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion - Audiophile Style" https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...s-with-the-chord-qutest-before-moving-to-tt2/


 EMAIL QUESTIONS UK SUPPLIER

"Contact — Wave High Fidelity" https://www.wavehighfidelity.com/contact

Nick Bacon can answer more questions than i can..

I hate this hobby as most have to pay to find out if something really is good... i was worried yet again I'd be disappointed with another purchase..
I felt the same for the Singxer but some good knowledgeable people on this thread and the reviews matched what i heard...
The DX is a must for Chord users i am sure for others DACs but milage may vary as they say...

Never feel pressure to buy anything...
If its affordable for you and enough honest reviews then wait a while.... if its still there and interesting then buy it.
You can always return it i suppose...

Good luck

David


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Muataz said:


> You need to start with line out mode which give 3v, then maybe you need 8 clicks to reach 5v ?! I don't know but I remember my mojo I click it down 4 clicks to go from 3 to 2 volt.



There is no click on hugo 2, also I don't think it's capable to do 5v without any clipping or distortion problem

You are correct about mojo 2V output.


----------



## Middy

Qutest 1-3v at the boot stage..


----------



## Lolito

Alex May said:


> Yes, it fits. The post about it was here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-16144315


i would swear we found out a few pages later that was wrong and max size is actually 32mm, or 33mm?


----------



## Lolito

I received my XLR cable for my new cans Audeze. The pot now is perfect. Before it didn't work as well staying at low gain. Now it is perfect at low gain with balanced connection of the headphones. 11 0 clock already too loud maybe, 10 o clock perfect normal position, kinda. Very precise the exponential pot like this. I dont miss the mod.


----------



## Alex May

Lolito said:


> i would swear we found out a few pages later that was wrong and max size is actually 32mm, or 33mm?


And I would swear that was a photo evidence))

This one of course won't fit (38mm), so you actually bought a wrong knob: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-16338465
This leaves a couple mm gap on both sides (30mm): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-16326154
And this fits perfect (34mm): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-16144315


----------



## Lolito

Alex May said:


> And I would swear that was a photo evidence))
> 
> This one of course won't fit (38mm), so you actually bought a wrong knob: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-16338465
> This leaves a couple mm gap on both sides (30mm): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-16326154
> And this fits perfect (34mm): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-16144315



"Fits perfect" given too fast maybe. I think stock one was 33 or 31 or 32


----------



## nekky

Hey guys anyone compared SA-1 to Audio-GD Master 19?


----------



## Stompy

Is the Jumper mod physically difficult to do? I was born with only one hand, I have a stump (left arm ends at wrist), would I be able to do it do you think? I can basically use one hand normally and hold something down with the other arm.


----------



## Forsaked

Stompy said:


> Is the Jumper mod physically difficult to do? I was born with only one hand, I have a stump (left arm ends at wrist), would I be able to do it do you think? I can basically use one hand normally and hold something down with the other arm.


Should be doable, since you only need to remove some screws and put 4 jumpers on some pins.
If you also want to change the fuse, it should be doable.


----------



## Stompy

Thank you, 2 quick questions: 1. The void warranty sticker is a problem but I bought my SA-1 from Magnahifi, and IIRC those stickers aren't legally relevant in Europe, right? But then it'd also have to be sent of to China to get fixed, so is removing that sticker gonna prevent you from getting warranty-repairs or nah? 2. Where can I get such jumpers?


----------



## Forsaked

Stompy said:


> Thank you, 2 quick questions: 1. The void warranty sticker is a problem but I bought my SA-1 from Magnahifi, and IIRC those stickers aren't legally relevant in Europe, right? But then it'd also have to be sent of to China to get fixed, so is removing that sticker gonna prevent you from getting warranty-repairs or nah? 2. Where can I get such jumpers?


1. Since most dealers won't repair it themself they or you have to send it back, which then get's no warrenty repair.
2. Every electronics shop or even Amazon has it, just search for "pc jumper 2,54mm".


----------



## Roasty

sorry if this has been asked before, but any detriment to running two headphones together?
4pin XLR out to Utopia and 4.4mm balanced out to Stellia.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Spent an hour with SA-1. Pair with Hugo 2 and Diana Phi.

My initial impression is I can't decide which part amaze me more, the midrange tuning that full body yet highly resolving, or these amount of micro details that definitely a steal for the price.


----------



## Roasty

Roasty said:


> sorry if this has been asked before, but any detriment to running two headphones together?
> 4pin XLR out to Utopia and 4.4mm balanced out to Stellia.



Got a reply from Singxer about the above. This was Leter's reply.

"hi,yes.

it can work .
but not the best.
the best is only one headphone.

------------------
Leter Chen   Product Manager"


----------



## Muataz

Roasty said:


> sorry if this has been asked before, but any detriment to running two headphones together?
> 4pin XLR out to Utopia and 4.4mm balanced out to Stellia.


I believe it is very easy, I tired HE6se with Focal clear one time and one time with Aeon closed.

for both focal headphones with impedance for each is 80+ will be very easy


----------



## Muataz

nekky said:


> Hey guys anyone compared SA-1 to Audio-GD Master 19?


A friend of mine tried mater 9 against my SA-1.
He describe SA-1 more detailed and precise, moreover he like the HE6se in the mater 9 little more.


----------



## NascentAP

Muataz said:


> A friend of mine tried mater 9 against my SA-1.
> He describe SA-1 more detailed and precise, moreover he like the HE6se in the mater 9 little more.


My experience has been somewhat similar with HE6SE V2 with SA-1 and Emotiva BasX-100. Arya sounds better and more refined on the SA-1 but HE6 on the BasX via speaker tap is much more engaging despite loss of some detail and definition at both the high and the low ends.


----------



## nekky

NascentAP said:


> My experience has been somewhat similar with HE6SE V2 with SA-1 and Emotiva BasX-100. Arya sounds better and more refined on the SA-1 but HE6 on the BasX via speaker tap is much more engaging despite loss of some detail and definition at both the high and the low ends.


Thx for the info! I think I need an Arya or HEKse in my life eventually… currently loving my Aeolus via SA-1.


----------



## Middy

Stompy said:


> Is the Jumper mod physically difficult to do? I was born with only one hand, I have a stump (left arm ends at wrist), would I be able to do it do you think? I can basically use one hand normally and hold something down with the other arm.


No the weight of the unit will allow you to easily remove the six screws and be stable...I suggested use tweezers to for the small 2.54 jumpers near the case wall as its a tight fit and makes it easier. My uncle has the same issue, I wish I was  a dextrous as he is.. 

Eyebrow tweezers worked great for me  as I have fairy big hands...

Shouldn't be an issue... Good luck and let people know what you think good or bad
Dave🙂


----------



## Forsaked

Ordered the Singxer at ShenzenAudio via Amazon, it will arrive 18.-27. August, just when i come back from my vacation.
Jumpers and tuning fuse is also ordered, but should be here much faster.


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Aug 5, 2021)

nekky said:


> Thx for the info! I think I need an Arya or HEKse in my life eventually… currently loving my Aeolus via SA-1.


There is something about hfiman and singxer synergy I guess, as SA-1 sound excellent as well with Arya. Improve the vocal quality with smoother treble. However, pair really well to audeze lcd-x too. On both headphone I prefer singxer than topping A90.


----------



## Middy (Jul 30, 2021)

A silly question all....
The red lighted on  switch at the back of the SA1..
Is the light flickering on your units?

Thanks

Dave


----------



## NascentAP (Jul 30, 2021)

Middy said:


> A silly question all....
> The red lighted on  switch at the back of the SA1..
> Is the light flickering on your units?
> 
> ...


I could have sworn that mine flickered but looking at it for ~30 seconds continuously just now, it stayed on solid red.

Edit: looked at it again several times and still no flicker. I may have been wrong about it flickering before.


----------



## Forsaked

Does anyone use the Singxer as pre-amp for active monitors?
I think about getting the Neumann KH120A to pair with it.


----------



## Middy

NascentAP said:


> I could have sworn that mine flickered but looking at it for ~30 seconds continuously just now, it stayed on solid red.
> 
> Edit: looked at it again several times and still no flicker. I may have been wrong about it flickering before.


Mines flickering like a cheap artificial candle... or a cheap power strip....

Might be nothing but wanted to make sure it isn't a wider issue...

Could be the socket unit or more bad Singxer wiring... 1 wire was hanging off by the solder and 1 wire twist..only. ..

Thanks

Dave


----------



## Lolito

Forsaked said:


> Does anyone use the Singxer as pre-amp for active monitors?
> I think about getting the Neumann KH120A to pair with it.


me, works good.


----------



## tommo21

Forsaked said:


> Does anyone use the Singxer as pre-amp for active monitors?
> I think about getting the Neumann KH120A to pair with it.


I listen to it more as pre-amp vs headphones. I have the Kali Audio In-5's. I really enjoy this combo.


----------



## gdwallasign

Forsaked said:


> Does anyone use the Singxer as pre-amp for active monitors?
> I think about getting the Neumann KH120A to pair with it.


I preamp to my da-8s to my passives.  Makes that crap smooth. Turned off the sdb filter on the da-8s for dir and sounds wonderful


----------



## Forsaked (Aug 2, 2021)

Looks like ShenzhenAudio was a way faster then stated, ordered on friday, shipped saturday, delivered on monday.
I am now a happy new owner of this baby, now i have to try the settings for my RME also gain and the DC mod.









Next stop, Denafrips Ares II and HiFiMan Arya!


----------



## Forsaked (Aug 2, 2021)

I think the warranty seal was a joke... came very easy without any damage.





It's DC modded now, but still waiting for my HiFi-Tuning SUPREME³ T2A (Gold/Silver) fuse and the mxuteuk KNOB-06-30BK knob!


----------



## Roasty

tried my 64audio A12T with the SA-1 and just WOW!


----------



## Bimbleton (Aug 18, 2021)

DELETE


----------



## thegratefuldad

Bimbleton said:


> Hey y'all, I'm noticing the SA-1 with my LCD-X (2021) is really lacking bass slam. Nice sweet mids and highs, but really not much bass slam. It's extremely evident, even compared to my little dongle Qudelix. Any thoughts?
> 
> I use EQ both with the dongle and over windows, and even with _double_ the bass shelf, not noticing much increased bass out of the Singxer.
> 
> Low gain, fed by a Schiit Modi 3+ (reportedly a pretty warm DAC too), output via balanced 4.4. Volume around 9-10 o'clock.


----------



## thegratefuldad

Bass Slam was the problem that Soundnews review talked about.
All else was very good. Just no slam.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Bimbleton said:


> Hey y'all, I'm noticing the SA-1 with my LCD-X (2021) is really lacking bass slam. Nice sweet mids and highs, but really not much bass slam. It's extremely evident, even compared to my little dongle Qudelix. Any thoughts?
> 
> I use EQ both with the dongle and over windows, and even with _double_ the bass shelf, not noticing much increased bass out of the Singxer.
> 
> Low gain, fed by a Schiit Modi 3+ (reportedly a pretty warm DAC too), output via balanced 4.4. Volume around 9-10 o'clock.


Put it on high gain.


----------



## Bimbleton

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Put it on high gain.


Sad to say this improved things very slightly, but enormously limited my usable volume range. Oh well, this amp is not for me.


----------



## royalemint

Bimbleton said:


> Sad to say this improved things very slightly, but enormously limited my usable volume range. Oh well, this amp is not for me.


Did you use balanced connection from your DAC?


----------



## Bimbleton

royalemint said:


> Did you use balanced connection from your DAC?


I don’t have a balanced DAC, but most reviewers have said the input doesn’t make much of a difference. The output has always been balanced.


----------



## royalemint

Bimbleton said:


> I don’t have a balanced DAC, but most reviewers have said the input doesn’t make much of a difference. The output has always been balanced.


I see. I'm currently pairing it with the Denafrips Ares 2 XLR to Singxer with Hifiman Arya, the max I could do with the volume knob is at 1 o'clock on low gain.


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Aug 5, 2021)

Apologize, wrong impression due to software issue


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

TheMiddleSky said:


> I would say Singxer is a netral and smooth sounding amp. From bite treble, to sweet midrange, and bass's behaviour that more on relax side. Great for most headphone out there with dynamic nature or have some peaks area.
> 
> Some headphone like Audeze LCD-X, Hifiman Arya, Focal Clear MG definitely sound great on Singxer. Of course, preference play big role, if someone bought an amp and expect it to boost certain frequency (e.g: bass quantity), then SIngxer is not for them. Better to get something punchier / more aggressive amplifier like schiit, headamp, wells audio, etc.
> 
> Frankly speaking, it's rare for me to see an amp that work well on both Audeze and Hifiman headphones (So far I've tried: LCD-X, LCD-2, Arya, Ananda).


OR if you want more bass, how about buy a bassier headphone.


----------



## Bimbleton

Hifiearspeakers said:


> OR if you want more bass, how about buy a bassier headphone.


Ah of course why didn’t I think of that


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Bimbleton said:


> Ah of course why didn’t I think of that


😂


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Aug 5, 2021)

Apologize, wrong impression due to software issue.


----------



## NascentAP (Aug 4, 2021)

TheMiddleSky said:


> if you still want to stick with neutral sounding amp, with similar price range, take a look topping A90. It offer more bass slam, more energy (bite) on upper mid/treble with slight drier vocal than Singxer.


When I read comments like this, it really amazes me how different our individual experiences really are. I went from A90 to SA-1 and the first and the most obvious change I noticed from this transition was the bass quantity as well as quality using the Arya and the Elex. It makes me wonder just how much of this discrepancy is due to our subjective experiences or to unit-to-unit variability in audio equipment.


----------



## Bimbleton

NascentAP said:


> When I read comments like this, it really amazes me how different our individual experiences really are. I went from A90 to SA-1 and the first and the most obvious change I noticed from this transition was the bass quantity as well as quality using the Arya and the Elex. It makes me wonder just how much of this discrepancy is due to our subjective experiences or to unit-to-unit variability in audio equipment.


Wholeheartedly agree. The headphones, the type of music, our _ear shape_ probably have enormous impact on our gear's perceived capabilities. Singxer SA-1 is an impressive device, just not to my taste. I'm happy for everyone who enjoys it!


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Aug 5, 2021)

NascentAP said:


> When I read comments like this, it really amazes me how different our individual experiences really are. I went from A90 to SA-1 and the first and the most obvious change I noticed from this transition was the bass quantity as well as quality using the Arya and the Elex. It makes me wonder just how much of this discrepancy is due to our subjective experiences or to unit-to-unit variability in audio equipment.




I'd put bass quality of singxer at same level as A90, only different in presentation.

My only problem from singxer is channel matching at low volume, not as precise as the one with A90. Could be device variation of course. Not that it becomes deal breaker because there is gain control.


----------



## Alex May (Aug 5, 2021)

Bimbleton said:


> Hey y'all, I'm noticing the SA-1 with my LCD-X (2021) is really lacking bass slam. Nice sweet mids and highs, but really not much bass slam. It's extremely evident, even compared to my little dongle Qudelix. Any thoughts?


I really think that you might have received a faulty unit. Try contacting the seller and simply replace it for another one.


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Aug 5, 2021)

Apologize to everyone who already read my impression about Singxer and topping A90 before. Due to software issue (different settings) my previous opinion was simply invalid.

After spent almost 2 hours comparing them again side by side today (with Diana Phi and Focal Clear MG), here are my conclusion:
- Singxer offer more energy, and musical feel through all spectrum. Trble has more bite, vocal is a little more upfront, with punchier low frequency. If I draw a frequency graph, Singxer (very) slight more W-Shape where A90 is more linear. Both amp definitely still consider as neutral though, and measurement show both of them actually dead flat.
- Bass, yes Singxer offer fuller mid bass, and more rumble to lowest sub bass note as well

- I think I prefer Singxer now, as technical wise this amp offer a little (no, not much) better resolution in term of micro detail, black background and accuracy imaging of each notes, easier to notice with percussion instrument. Singxer also perform slight better soundstage width, depth and especially height.
- A90 offer more linear sound, more bland, this could be good/bad thing based on synergy and preference.

- Vocal is beautiful in Singxer, I have no idea how the designer able to deliver flat frequency response with crazy SNR number, but vocal seems melodius, smooth, with open airy feeling. A90 is more laidback, with less air in this regard.
- Still, A90 wins in term of volume pot quality, really good at low volume. At morning usually my listening volume around 45-50db.
- A90 is cheaper in price, with better layout. Gain control on Singxer that located at the bottom is annoying when someone have hard and easy to drive headphones.


----------



## NascentAP

TheMiddleSky said:


> Apologize to everyone who already read my impression about Singxer and topping A90 before. Due to software issue (different settings) my previous opinion was simply invalid.
> 
> After spent almost 2 hours comparing them again side by side today (with Diana Phi and Focal Clear MG), here are my conclusion:
> - Singxer offer more energy, and musical feel through all spectrum. Trble has more bite, vocal is a little more upfront, with punchier low frequency. If I draw a frequency graph, Singxer (very) slight more W-Shape where A90 is more linear. Both amp definitely still consider as neutral though, and measurement show both of them actually dead flat.
> ...


That's interesting about your more recent test results, which is more in line with my experience.

I forgot to mention that in my situation, perhaps my DAC (Ares II) did not play nicely with the A90. Apparently, Ares II has an unusually high output impedance via balanced (was something like 2.4k ohm) and the A90 has an unusually low input impedance (couldn't find numbers from official outlets but I remember reading somewhere it's less than 10K ohms). I read that for ideal situations, the output : input impedance ratio should be something like 1:10 (which the Ares II/A90 is nowhere close to) and when it deviates too far from this, you can lose power. Others who seemed much smarter than I couldn't really articulate what the other effects of this "mismatch" would be. I'm no electrical engineer so I'm just parroting what I read elsewhere but I always wondered whether this interfered with the sound reproduction.


----------



## Tazyn (Aug 6, 2021)

I didn't like Singxer at all at first. In general, it turns out to be cleaner, a little faster, with better control than my old amplifier, which I bought not new for $ 250 + I changed the OPA in it to burson v6 classic. The old amplifier, despite the fact that it is inferior to everyone in this, wins in some general feeling from listening, I don't know, the naturalness of the feed in it is probably better. And only when I shorted the fuse with a good copper wire and changed the standard power cable to a good one - Singxer began to suit me. Working with the fuse gave an even greater result than replacing the standard power cable.
Headphones  Snorry Si-1
Dac - Energy Audio DAC hI


----------



## ES_EF

Hi yall

wondering if this product added to the upstream dac (sda-6 pro in my case) and the SA1 will add a layer of protection if one were to do the dc mod

https://ifi-audio.com/products/dc-blocker/


----------



## Alex May

ES_EF said:


> Hi yall
> 
> wondering if this product added to the upstream dac (sda-6 pro in my case) and the SA1 will add a layer of protection if one were to do the dc mod
> 
> https://ifi-audio.com/products/dc-blocker/


It will make your mod absolutely invalid and leave you with cancelled warranty for no good reason. What's the point in bypassing the DC protection inside the amp if you're going to add it outside? Just think for a moment. Don't do the mod in the first place. Everybody reverses their mod eventually because it doesn't do any good for the sound, except adding excessive peaks that we mistakenly perceive as some improvement to the microdynamics. Eventually the sound appears to be very fatiguing after the mod. Don't do it! Only at your own risk. Nobody will help you if anything goes wrong, do you understand it?


----------



## Tazyn

Please tell me, is there a difference in the sound of the Singxer sa-1 between the output of 6.3 and the balanced output? I only have one 6.3 cable


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Tazyn said:


> Please tell me, is there a difference in the sound of the Singxer sa-1 between the output of 6.3 and the balanced output? I only have one 6.3 cable


Yes, the harder to drive your headphone is, the more effect you would noticed. Basically single ended use 1 board of amplification, while balance use 4 boards.

My today's comparison would be singxer vs topping a30pro, oh man, this little topping is surely a beast!


----------



## gdwallasign

Tazyn said:


> I didn't like Singxer at all at first. In general, it turns out to be cleaner, a little faster, with better control than my old amplifier, which I bought not new for $ 250 + I changed the OPA in it to burson v6 classic. The old amplifier, despite the fact that it is inferior to everyone in this, wins in some general feeling from listening, I don't know, the naturalness of the feed in it is probably better. And only when I shorted the fuse with a good copper wire and changed the standard power cable to a good one - Singxer began to suit me. Working with the fuse gave an even greater result than replacing the standard power cable.
> Headphones  Snorry Si-1
> Dac - Energy Audio DAC hI


Which power cable did you go with?


----------



## Tazyn (Aug 6, 2021)

gdwallasign​*cable* https://tchernovcable.com/en/products/special-series/special-ac25-power-cables/​plug https://aliexpress.ru/item/40012754...716.1404729436.1628237852-24137429.1611573905"​


----------



## equalspeace

The SA-1 power the HD600 so amazingly. Once I got enough hours on it I never heard the 600 sound so precise with Beethoven in the stage elements. I could almost see how the players were organized on the stage and every note was there separated with effortless speed, weight and naturalness in the tonality. This amp is a home run hitter every time.


----------



## thegratefuldad

I don't know how to set up a poll here, but,
Just wondering how many SingXer SA1 owners are using
HIGH GAIN VS LOW GAIN in everyday use.
This whole Class A going into AB has me confused on which gain to stick with.
I think I understand the reason for the LOW gain is that is l
LESS likely to go into AB at full volume rotation, while at HIGH gain
you'll switch from A to AB sooner on volume pot rotation. (Half way, 3/4, ?) 
I don't have proper tools to measure but shouldn't there be a way to tell when the switch is going to happen
Can you hear it even? How loud does the HP need to be to know you are in Class A or AB.
Anyone refrain from HIGH GAIN, why?


----------



## shwnwllms

I started out in low gain (using the same reasoning, that it would be less likely to switch from A to AB). Tried it once in high gain and never looked back. While my LCD-X aren’t particularly hard to drive they certainly benefit from high gain and I needed the extra headroom for Roon DSP anyway. I say try it in both and make your own decision. Everyone’s setup is going to to be different, only you will ge able to tell what works best for yours.


----------



## Deceneu808

I personally can not hear any difference regarding sound when and if it switches from A to AB. I personally use High gain for most of my cans. Only when using the LCD-X I lower the volume on the DAC to have more control over the volume range and not blow my ear drums


----------



## TheMiddleSky

I don't care at all about class A vs AB, as that is not a sign of good/bad sound quality. I use low gain at almost all the time as in the morning I usually listen to low volume (around 45-50db). Even at night when I sometime blast my brain with music, low gain still giving me too much power (Yes, even with Diana Phi).


----------



## Arion128

Hello All, can the Singxer sa1 drive the abyss 1266 phi TC? looking at a cheap amp to start off, however had the Abyss as my end game as a headphone for now. Thanks


----------



## Tazyn (Aug 11, 2021)

For abyss 1266, it is rational to use nimbus as a end game.


----------



## Arion128

Tazyn said:


> For abyss 1266, it is rational to use nimbus as a end game.


thanks


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Tazyn said:


> For abyss 1266, it is rational to use nimbus as a end game.


It would be fun to read comparison of nimbus and singxer, I love violectric products too!


----------



## Tazyn (Aug 11, 2021)

Nimbus and singxer SA-1 are positioned in different weight categories. According to the reviews of people on another forum who have heard nimbus, this is really an uncompromising amplifier. Singxer sa-1 is just a good product for its price, which you can find fault with (if you want).

p.s within a week I will get a neutrik xlr connector, I will redo the cable and try singxer on the balanced output. If nothing changes, then I will probably sell it because I am very used to my old amplifier and despite the positive qualities of singxer, for me it is not better than the old amplifier.


----------



## nekky

Tazyn said:


> Nimbus and singxer SA-1 are positioned in different weight categories. According to the reviews of people on another forum who have heard nimbus, this is really an uncompromising amplifier. Singxer sa-1 is just a good product for its price, which you can find fault with (if you want).
> 
> p.s within a week I will get a neutrik xlr connector, I will redo the cable and try singxer on the balanced output. If nothing changes, then I will probably sell it because I am very used to my old amplifier and despite the positive qualities of singxer, for me it is not better than the old amplifier.


Which is your old one?


----------



## Maxdalax

Anyone here used the Singxer sa1 as pre amplifier for a Stereo?


----------



## Tazyn (Aug 12, 2021)

Maxdalax I used Singxer sa1 in pre-amplifier mode on active speakers. With this use, it adds a signal from itself and changes the sound.

nekky my old amp is an Energy Audio M3 mod C amplifier. an old and rare amplifier, made by hand by one master. + I inserted a burson v6 classic into it and opa from zerofox into it.


----------



## Maxdalax

Tazyn said:


> Maxdalax I used Singxer sa1 in pre-amplifier mode on active speakers. With this use, it adds a signal from itself and changes the sound.
> 
> nekky my old amp is an Energy Audio M3 mod C amplifier. an old and rare amplifier, made by hand by one master. + I inserted a burson v6 classic into it and opa from zerofox into it.


How did you like it as a pre amplifier?


----------



## Sense

I have one of these on order from Drop...so I watched a few reviews and they said something about it not always being a class-A amp...so how does that work? What circumstances would cause it to switch from Class-A to A/B?


----------



## Tazyn

Maxdalax I didn't like it very much. But maybe I'm just used to the sound when connected directly to the dac. And my speakers are entry-level.

Sense it will switch to class AB at a certain level of gain and volume. In everyday use, this moment is not felt.


----------



## Sense

Tazyn said:


> Sense it will switch to class AB at a certain level of gain and volume. In everyday use, this moment is not felt.


Is there any way of knowing if you've gone from class-A to A/B? I got this from Drop because I had drop credits...also...I already have an A90...trying to figure out if there is a reason to keep one over the other. Reading back it sounds like people are split on these two. Some like one...some like others. I had hoped that the Singxer would be a much warmer amp than the A90.


----------



## Alex May

Sense said:


> Is there any way of knowing if you've gone from class-A to A/B? I got this from Drop because I had drop credits...also...I already have an A90...trying to figure out if there is a reason to keep one over the other. Reading back it sounds like people are split on these two. Some like one...some like others. I had hoped that the Singxer would be a much warmer amp than the A90.


The warmth of the amp doesn't have anything to do with its class A or AB. Class A/AB simply means energy consumption within the amp circuit and nothing else. There is no way on earth to figure out when the amplification transfers from A to AB because it's a gradual ramping process. As the gain increases, there is a point on the curve where the energy consumption gradually starts following the amplified signal (Class AB) instead of flowing at a constant rate (Class A). There is NO audible difference! No change to the sound signature at all. But I'd assume that the amp becomes AB when on high gain and the volume pot is at 3 o'clock.

The difference between the A90 and SA-1 is that the chip based A90 is clinical af but the SA-1 is a transistor based amp. Therefore, the SA-1 might add some 3rd order harmonics with suppressed 2nd order harmonics. As opposed to tube amps that add 2nd order and 3rd order harmonics with some 4th order harmonics. Transistor based amps might sound fuller and slightly warmer than clinical chip-based/OP amps but not to the point where the difference is big enough to be appreciable. In high tier headphones you can definitely hear it though. However, both A90 and SA-1 are very resolving and neutral amps. The SA-1 might sound slightly more layered and full but I wouldn't call it warmth. The A90 is good for mixing and mastering and all sorts of critical listening because it preserves the sound as it is being a 'wire with gain'. The Singxer is more musical, if you will.


----------



## equalspeace (Aug 14, 2021)

Sense said:


> Is there any way of knowing if you've gone from class-A to A/B? I got this from Drop because I had drop credits...also...I already have an A90...trying to figure out if there is a reason to keep one over the other. Reading back it sounds like people are split on these two. Some like one...some like others. I had hoped that the Singxer would be a much warmer amp than the A90.


I’ve owned both the SA-1 and the A90. The SA-1 is def warmer and just all around better than the A90 imo.

Unrelated, it’s weird, my HD600 sounds better from the 4.4 output than XLR. My HD660s on the other hand sounds amazeballs on the XLR and not as good on the 4.4 output. I have no idea why these differences exist but it’s nice to have all of the options this amp provides, and also that both balanced outputs pretty much sound awesome. This amp is just so cool


----------



## Currawong

For everyone worrying about the DC protection, let me clarify something. If a DAC manufacturer cannot make a DAC that has *zero *DC on the output, they are so grossly incompetent that they shouldn't be making products at all.  Generally though, that tiny handful of [insert suitable insult here in the plural] usually make NOS (non-oversampling) DACs, using old R2R chips, which don't use an output stage after the DAC converter for "purity" or some BS.  If you haven't encountered one of these things, you don't need to worry about it. 


TheMiddleSky said:


> If I draw a frequency graph, Singxer (very) slight more W-Shape where A90 is more linear. Both amp definitely still consider as neutral though, and measurement show both of them actually dead flat.


Just FYI, you want to look at the crosstalk graph of an amp or DAC to see how it is tuned.


equalspeace said:


> Unrelated, it’s weird, my HD600 sounds better from the 4.4 output better than XLR. My HD660s on the other hand sounds amazeballs on the XLR and not as good on the 4.4 output. I have no idea why these differences exist but it’s nice to have all of the options this amp provides, and also that both balanced outputs pretty much sound awesome. This amp is just so cool


Some plugs and sockets seem to cause a bit of an increase in crosstalk between the connectors.


----------



## Sense

Currawong said:


> Generally though, that tiny handful of [insert suitable insult here in the plural] usually make NOS (non-oversampling) DACs, using old R2R chips, which don't use an output stage after the DAC converter for "purity" or some BS.


Hmmm…NOS + R2R…is Holo one of the brands? I was thinking about picking one of those up.


----------



## Forsaked

Sense said:


> Hmmm…NOS + R2R…is Holo one of the brands? I was thinking about picking one of those up.


Or maybe Denafrips?


----------



## NascentAP

Forsaked said:


> Or maybe Denafrips?


Pretty sure it’s Denafrips Ares II although I’m not sure if it applies to all of their DACs. I seem to remember reading that the Ares II is missing an output stage, which underlies the unusually high output impedance.


----------



## Forsaked

NascentAP said:


> Pretty sure it’s Denafrips Ares II although I’m not sure if it applies to all of their DACs. I seem to remember reading that the Ares II is missing an output stage, which underlies the unusually high output impedance.



I think none of the Denafrips DACs has one.


----------



## NascentAP

Forsaked said:


> I think none of the Denafrips DACs has one.


Fortunately for me, I am happy with the way the stock SA-1 sounds with the Ares II.


----------



## Currawong

I was thinking of way more obscure brands that use old R2R chips and minimal circuitry. Nothing mainstream.  But basically I wanted to say that people are over-thinking this.


----------



## Voxata (Aug 14, 2021)

I sold my SA-1! Loved the amp guys, treated me well for 8 months. I did however acquire a vintage amp that sounds a bit more engaging and thicker to my ears, especially in the bass with a really intoxicating sound. Less precise but everything is a trade. Guess I like a little dash of distortion. Have an enjoyable listen all!


----------



## Celty

My question at this point is in regard to matching the SA-1 with a DAC. I'm currently using my trusty SU-8 v2. Right now my top choices are leaning toward a Topping D70s or D90SE, and a Denafrips Ares 2.

One factor I am wondering about is the relative importance of a DAC's XLR voltage - 4 volts vs. 5 or more when using with the SA-1.


----------



## nekky

Celty said:


> My question at this point is in regard to matching the SA-1 with a DAC. I'm currently using my trusty SU-8 v2. Right now my top choices are leaning toward a Topping D70s or D90SE, and a Denafrips Ares 2.
> 
> One factor I am wondering about is the relative importance of a DAC's XLR voltage - 4 volts vs. 5 or more when using with the SA-1.


There was a noticeable improvement for me in both volume and punch when moving from X16 (4V) to X26pro (5V) and I believe there are others who have recommended pairing it with a hotter source. YMMV.

oh and I would add the SMSL VMV D1SE to your list maybe


----------



## Stompy

So... my Borealis should get here in a few days, does anyone have experience with the Bori + SA-1? I find with my 580 I do get some upper mid harshness but I don't have much to compare with, I think it's my SA-1 causing it, but I'm not sure since I don't have many other dacs/amps to change with and test. Right now I'm running Soncoz SGD-1 > Singxer SA-1, do you think it'll fit decently with the Boris? 

Also, has anyone here tried the RNHP amp? How does it compare with the SA-1? I hope I like the bori as much as I expect, if I do I may tailor a stack for it, which may mean letting the SA-1 go :/ For anyone wonder I've yet to try the jumpers mod.


----------



## quawn0418

Voxata said:


> I sold my SA-1! Loved the amp guys, treated me well for 8 months. I did however acquire a vintage amp that sounds a bit more engaging and thicker to my ears, especially in the bass with a really intoxicating sound. Less precise but everything is a trade. Guess I like a little dash of distortion. Have an enjoyable listen all!


Which amp would that be?


----------



## equalspeace

I put the Yamaha EPH200 on the SA-1 earlier from the 4.4mm output and just wow. That little iem scales like crazy and loves power it seems. Sounded incredible


----------



## Stompy

The Bori finally got here! I think they seem to be working pretty well with the SA-1, but it looks like another dac with more slam and warmth may be a good plan. Has anyone tried the Bifrost 2 + SA-1?


----------



## Voxata (Aug 17, 2021)

quawn0418 said:


> Which amp would that be?


I was able to get my hands on a nice Dynahi build.


----------



## Bimbleton

Oy Singxers, any of you lot pair the SA-1 with a Bifrost 2? How’s it sound?


----------



## luis.ryot22

Hi, has anyone paired this amp with an Audeze LCD-4z headpone. I have an ADI-2 Pro which is quite neutral and I would like to add some warmth. Someone with these headphones over here and please share your experience


----------



## Roasty

So i had some issues with my Singxer SA-1 and Holo May KTE, which i posted about on AS forum, but thought i'd share it here too.

"is it not advisable to use both xlr and rca output from the May at the same time? i have the KTE May, XLR out to a Wells Audio Milo Reference headamp (and sometimes swapped for an integrated amp) and RCA out to a Singxer SA-1 headamp. 

when both the xlr and rca outputs are connected, i get this faint distortion/static/buzz audible with vocals of higher pitch and volume, eg female vocals at the peak of a crescendo. if i disconnect the rca cables from the Singxer headamp, the distortion/static/buzz goes away.

i have tried changing out cables, swapping out power cords, moving the power cord from the same block (an AQ Niagara 1200) to separate blocks and also directly to the wall outlet. but seemingly the only solution is to not use both rca/xlr together. the same issue also occurs if i swap connections ie RCA to integrated/Milo headamp and XLR to Singxer headamp, and resolved by removing the XLR connection."


and my follow up post:

"Ok so i tried a ground box with grounding cable to the unused coaxial out and it didnt solve the problem.
Tried several other RCA cables and power cords into the Singxer with no luck.
Then today i decided to swap connections ie RCA into my pre, and XLR into the Singxer, and it did the trick. that distortion/buzz has gone away. Not sure what the actual problem is, but it is an OK compromise for me."


----------



## TheRealDz

The SA-1 is live on Drop for the next week. 

FYI, some retailers will price match Drop... 😉

I took the plunge, and look forward to seeing how it stacks up against my Jot2...


----------



## nekky

Anyone compared SA-1 to iFi PRO iCAN?


----------



## Pigeon X

Just got mine. Waiting on a Gustard x16 to pair with it. Using a scarlet 2i2 for now. so far, it sounds great. I'm loving this high-z switch. Sounds like its pulling back on the upper mids in really helpful way, making the sound wider and more suited to longer listening without irritation. its also generally lowering the treble a bit. Really brings out the best in the hp-3 which is an uncomfortablely bright headphone usually. Warmth traditionally refers to distortion, so i wouldn't call this a warm amp in that sense since it resolves very clearly and accurately. But it surely cools down hot treble to very listenable levels.


----------



## TheRealDz

Warmth = distortion??? 🤔🤔🤔


----------



## Mansinthe86

Hi , new the forum and I need someone that is able to explain this to me like I'm 6 years old 😅

I've just ordered the Singxer SA1. I want to use it with Focal Elegia Headphones and a balanced cable. 

I've got a Cambridge CXN V2 that is a DAC + streamer but has the option to run as Pre-amp as well.

Is it possible to just use the Singxer as Poweramp so I'm able to use the Volume Control on the CXN V2? That volume control works through the streammagic app. So that would be pretty nice.

I noticed the singer has a switch that is labeled "hpa" "pre" and "off"


----------



## Forsaked

Mansinthe86 said:


> Hi , new the forum and I need someone that is able to explain this to me like I'm 6 years old 😅
> 
> I've just ordered the Singxer SA1. I want to use it with Focal Elegia Headphones and a balanced cable.
> 
> ...


Just set the DAC to the max volume level you want, adjust it on the Singxer and then just use the DAC control.
I do this the same way on my RME.


----------



## Forsaked

I came back today from my vacation, to see that my knob got delivered.
How do you guys removed the old knob?
The screw is to deep to reach it with my iFixit kit.

The fuse is still not delivered...


----------



## Mansinthe86

Are you guys still doing the DC mod? And what's that with the replacement fuse?


----------



## Tazyn (Aug 23, 2021)

I did not spend money on a new fuse. I soldered the already installed copper wire, which gave an improvement, a free improvement. Then I'll take a new fuse at the sale to put it in the dac. Then I can compare a good purchased fuse and a soldered old fuse.



Spoiler: fuse


----------



## Stompy

I have a question guys: On a scale from 1-10 how dynamic do you find the SA-1 to be? I'm running it without the jumper mod and on low gain due to my headphone (Borealis) not sounding as good on high gain. I have to decide what part of my system I want to tweak - DAC or the Amp, or both. 

Also, on a scale from 1-10 how bright do you all find it?


----------



## NascentAP

Stompy said:


> I have a question guys: On a scale from 1-10 how dynamic do you find the SA-1 to be? I'm running it without the jumper mod and on low gain due to my headphone (Borealis) not sounding as good on high gain. I have to decide what part of my system I want to tweak - DAC or the Amp, or both.
> 
> Also, on a scale from 1-10 how bright do you all find it?


Can you clarify what you mean by dynamic? As for brightness, I would give it a 5.


----------



## Alex May

Stompy said:


> I have a question guys: On a scale from 1-10 how dynamic do you find the SA-1 to be? I'm running it without the jumper mod and on low gain due to my headphone (Borealis) not sounding as good on high gain. I have to decide what part of my system I want to tweak - DAC or the Amp, or both.
> 
> Also, on a scale from 1-10 how bright do you all find it?


Dynamics depend on Low-Z or High-Z, not gain. On High-Z the dynamics indeed become slightly relaxed. Therefore, it's best to keep it on Low-Z regardless of your headphones impedance, if you prioritize dynamic response, punch and slam.


----------



## Sanlitun

Anyone have any thoughts on how this might compare to the older OG Burson Soloist? 

I'm considering buying the SA-1 but have doubts it would be an improvement for me.


----------



## xfusion

Hi, if Jotunheim 2 is the best $400 amplifier that beats $2400 amp. How about Singxer SA-1? Has anyone got the chance to compare it to Jotunheim 2? Do you agree that this Singxer SA-1 can compete with the big boys in the $2000 class and above?


----------



## Stompy

NascentAP said:


> Can you clarify what you mean by dynamic? As for brightness, I would give it a 5.


I mean macrodynamics, specifically how much slam it has.


----------



## Alex May

For Sanlitun and xfusion, there is a video on the *Passion for Sound* channel which compares the SA-1 to both the Burson Soloist (16:48) and the Jotunheim 2 (14:27):


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Stompy said:


> I have a question guys: On a scale from 1-10 how dynamic do you find the SA-1 to be? I'm running it without the jumper mod and on low gain due to my headphone (Borealis) not sounding as good on high gain. I have to decide what part of my system I want to tweak - DAC or the Amp, or both.
> 
> Also, on a scale from 1-10 how bright do you all find it?



I'd say at neutral group, not relax/mellow like 300B amp, and definitely not as aggressive/punchy like American amps (GSX MK2, Wells Milo). Still, it produce more "dynamic" feel into music compare to Topping A90. 

For brightness (the quantity of treble) for me is 6 out of 10. It helps to push more airy feeling which is check my preference.


----------



## TheRealDz

xfusion said:


> Hi, if Jotunheim 2 is the best $400 amplifier that beats $2400 amp. How about Singxer SA-1? Has anyone got the chance to compare it to Jotunheim 2? Do you agree that this Singxer SA-1 can compete with the big boys in the $2000 class and above?


I will be able to do so over the next few days. 

Mine comes in tomorrow, and after some burn in time, it will be in a cage match, fighting to the death with my Jot2.


----------



## xfusion

Alex May said:


> For Sanlitun and xfusion, there is a video on the *Passion for Sound* channel which compares the SA-1 to both the Burson Soloist (16:48) and the Jotunheim 2 (14:27):



Thank you @Alex May for the link. The reviewer mentioned that Singxer SA-1 is definitely to go in compare to Jotunheim2, but it is not at the same level as Burson Soloist eventhough Singxer SA-1 has a warmer sound and more pleasant timbre. It has to do with depth and layering, as well as detail and coherence, which is a surprised because I personally found Singxer SA-1 is very detailed, clean and with added smoothness, while it has a decent width and decent depth although not quite the same as a 300b tube amp soundstage but close enough. For me Singxer dynamic is pretty decent too, not overtly dynamic like most american amplifiers, but the amount of damping control to the sound is pretty remarkable. No blurry voice, bloomy bass, shrilling high, nothing clinical and far from fatiguing,  there is even a hint of warmth that is quite similar to 6sn7/12ax7/6C45 tube sound signature, not quite as lush as V281 but definitely better dynamic and detail compare to V281 Singxer also has immense detail and clarity, so yeah the control is quite remarkable.

Perhaps anyone who had the chance to compare it with Burson Soloist, or Violectric V281 that want to prove otherwise?


----------



## xfusion (Aug 24, 2021)

TheMiddleSky said:


> I'd say at neutral group, not relax/mellow like 300B amp, and definitely not as aggressive/punchy like American amps (GSX MK2, Wells Milo). Still, it produce more "dynamic" feel into music compare to Topping A90.
> 
> For brightness (the quantity of treble) for me is 6 out of 10. It helps to push more airy feeling which is check my preference.


In your personal opinion and taste, does Singxer SA-1 has enough in it to be in the GSX and Wells Milo level? Do you prefer their punchy and aggresive dynamic or the Singxer warmth and richness? Is the quantity of treble at 6 to be considered adequate or lacking especially in hyper detail cans like Diana Phi or HE susvara/1000SE?


----------



## xfusion

TheRealDz said:


> I will be able to do so over the next few days.
> 
> Mine comes in tomorrow, and after some burn in time, it will be in a cage match, fighting to the death with my Jot2.


I am excited to await your review as I imagine both are equally matched and capable balanced class A amplifier in the market!!


----------



## NascentAP

Stompy said:


> I mean macrodynamics, specifically how much slam it has.


 Got cha. I would rate the slam as 6.5 but my references are A90 (would rate as 4) and BaX-100 (would rate as 8.5 but can sound a bit bloated with certain headphones).



TheMiddleSky said:


> I'd say at neutral group, not relax/mellow like 300B amp, and definitely not as aggressive/punchy like American amps (GSX MK2, Wells Milo). Still, it produce more "dynamic" feel into music compare to Topping A90.
> 
> For brightness (the quantity of treble) for me is 6 out of 10. It helps to push more airy feeling which is check my preference.



I think TheMiddleSky nailed the description IMHO.


----------



## Greg121986

Need some quick help here. I just got an SA-1 and I hooked it up to a DAC with balanced XLR cables. I do not have any sound from the 1/4 inch jack this way. I only get output from the balanced headphone out. Is this normal? Am I missing something?


----------



## ahossain81

I was going to get Toppin A90, after reading this, i am not so sure any more. Seems like many upgraded from A90 to SA-1. Do you guys recommend any Dac that will be good with this Amp? Trying to keep the cost within 1k usd.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

ahossain81 said:


> I was going to get Toppin A90, after reading this, i am not so sure any more. Seems like many upgraded from A90 to SA-1. Do you guys recommend any Dac that will be good with this Amp? Trying to keep the cost within 1k usd.


Modius


----------



## ahossain81

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Modius


Oh I already have Modius, stack with Magnius. I was playing Dan Clark Aeon 2 Noire and Focal Elegia, and for some reason they sounded better on Xduoo XD05 bal portable amp/dac.  I think my ears are broken.


----------



## NascentAP

Greg121986 said:


> Need some quick help here. I just got an SA-1 and I hooked it up to a DAC with balanced XLR cables. I do not have any sound from the 1/4 inch jack this way. I only get output from the balanced headphone out. Is this normal? Am I missing something?


I'm not home to test atm but I'm pretty sure I get sound via both the XLR and the 1/4" with the DAC connected to the SA-1 via XLR although they were never connected together simultaneously (if this is your situation).



ahossain81 said:


> I was going to get Toppin A90, after reading this, i am not so sure any more. Seems like many upgraded from A90 to SA-1. Do you guys recommend any Dac that will be good with this Amp? Trying to keep the cost within 1k usd.


I use Denafrips Ares II and it sounds fantastic with the SA-1. I did a direct comparison between the Ares II and the Topping E30 on SA-1 and wrote about my thoughts on page 32 or so (early 30s for sure).


----------



## Sanlitun

I am taking a chance and have ordered one. I am putting together a second system to counterpoint my excellent Sony TA-ZH1ES.

My big concern is that it will be no better than my classic Burson Soloist (the older fully discrete unbalanced model with the stepped volume).


----------



## ahossain81

NascentAP said:


> I use Denafrips Ares II and it sounds fantastic with the SA-1. I did a direct comparison between the Ares II and the Topping E30 on SA-1 and wrote about my thoughts on page 32 or so (early 30s for sure).


Thank you so much. I will look into it and read up.


----------



## Greg121986

I tried again and there is definitely something wrong. I have headphones plugged into the 1/4" jack only. XLR balanced input from the DAC. I can only hear audio through the 1/4" headphone jack output with the volume at 100% and it is very quiet. I tried this with Low Z, High Z, Low Gain, and High Gain. I turned the AC off completely before changing High Gain or Low Gain. This amp is definitely bad.


----------



## Celty

xfusion said:


> Hi, if Jotunheim 2 is the best $400 amplifier that beats $2400 amp. How about Singxer SA-1? Has anyone got the chance to compare it to Jotunheim 2? Do you agree that this Singxer SA-1 can compete with the big boys in the $2000 class and above?


This YouTube reviewer's SA-1 video does give his take on the SA-1 vs. the Jotunheim 2 at 14:27 in. He also comments further on the comparison in the conclusion.


----------



## TheRealDz

ahossain81 said:


> Oh I already have Modius, stack with Magnius. I was playing Dan Clark Aeon 2 Noire and Focal Elegia, and for some reason they sounded better on Xduoo XD05 bal portable amp/dac.  I think my ears are broken.


I have a Focal Elegia and DCA Ether CX, along with Jot2 and Denafrips Ares 2.  My SA-1 is slated for delivery today - I will let you know how it all sounds, once burned in.  I concur that the Ares is excellent, and well below your budget.


----------



## ahossain81 (Aug 24, 2021)

TheRealDz said:


> I have a Focal Elegia and DCA Ether CX, along with Jot2 and Denafrips Ares 2.  My SA-1 is slated for delivery today - I will let you know how it all sounds, once burned in.  I concur that the Ares is excellent, and well below your budget.


Thank you, it will be highly appreciated. I also have Audeze Lcd-XC, Lcd-2C, Sony MDR Z1R, Sen HD600 and ZMF Auteur on the way. If you have any of these, let me know how they work with SA-1


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Aug 25, 2021)

xfusion said:


> In your personal opinion and taste, does Singxer SA-1 has enough in it to be in the GSX and Wells Milo level? Do you prefer their punchy and aggresive dynamic or the Singxer warmth and richness? Is the quantity of treble at 6 to be considered adequate or lacking especially in hyper detail cans like Diana Phi or HE susvara/1000SE?



I haven't heard GSX Mini, so can not comment about that. For GSX MK2, definitely a more mature amp compare to Singxer. GSX punch harder, more agility, richer detail, wider soundstage with more structure on imaging. This amp could be too aggressive or bright for some neutral-bright headphones though (such as Arya or Utopia or HD800), but still depend on your DAC or other parts in the system of course.

I do hear more micro detail on Singxer compare to Milo that I had. Milo perform stronger impact, fuller body of sound, with "sharper" imaging. Both amp has different character, Milo is darker, bassier, more bite/punch while Singxer is brighter, more relax in nature. Overall I would place Milo as a little better amp (but much more expensive), although everything back to synergise of our system.

For me 6 is adequate, not too sparkly to make Hifiman headphones sound too airy and lack of body, but it's good to boost more Open and Airy feeling on more intimate presentation of Diana. I haven't tried Susvara with Singxer, but this amp works well with Diana Phi and HE1000SE, definitely at smoother side of sound.


----------



## chaotic_angel

Any one have both Gustard H16 and SA1? would love to hear comparison of sound..


----------



## aroldan

Greg121986 said:


> I tried again and there is definitely something wrong. I have headphones plugged into the 1/4" jack only. XLR balanced input from the DAC. I can only hear audio through the 1/4" headphone jack output with the volume at 100% and it is very quiet. I tried this with Low Z, High Z, Low Gain, and High Gain. I turned the AC off completely before changing High Gain or Low Gain. This amp is definitely bad.


Did you check with RCA instead of XLR from DAC?

My unit is on the way and this kind of malfunctioning bothers me.


----------



## Mansinthe86

aroldan said:


> Did you check with RCA instead of XLR from DAC?
> 
> My unit is on the way and this kind of malfunctioning bothers me.


Got mine today. XLR connection from my Cambridge cxn V2.

Balanced headphone cable with XLR connection.

Everything is on low* gain.

and the amp works perfectly fine. 


Just a bit surprised how warm the amp gets compared to my Cambridge Cxa81 class A/B amp.*


----------



## aroldan

Mansinthe86 said:


> Got mine today. XLR connection from my Cambridge cxn V2.
> 
> Balanced headphone cable with XLR connection.
> 
> ...


Good to read that. What headphones are you running with the amp?


----------



## Mansinthe86

aroldan said:


> Good to read that. What headphones are you running with the amp?



Focal Elegia with Dekonis Sheepskin Stellia pads


----------



## Xareh

I've had mine for a couple months now with the ARES II and I really like it - but the volume is definitely odd. I definitely suspect low gain is really orientated towards very sensitive headphones and IEMs, I have to use high gain with my Eikons and when I had Aryas (briefly).

Now I have Clear MGs and it's a great sound on low gain but I'm normally close to max (maybe 3-4 o clock) if I want it up reasonably loud (what I would call my normal listening volume). If I switch to high gain, it's definitely 'louder' and I can stay closer to 12 o'clock, the travel is a lot faster and it feels like more headroom (maybe less harsh than up near max). But of course, high gain has its own issues (compression of details/dynamics/noise). 

Going back and forth I can't really tell which I prefer the sound of - if anyone has more experience can suggest to me whether I would be better off leaving it in low or high gain. I really hope the SA-2 or whatever they choose to replace this with has a better gain layout and a much better pot because this amp has so much clean and lovely power.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers (Aug 27, 2021)

Xareh said:


> I've had mine for a couple months now with the ARES II and I really like it - but the volume is definitely odd. I definitely suspect low gain is really orientated towards very sensitive headphones and IEMs, I have to use high gain with my Eikons and when I had Aryas (briefly).
> 
> Now I have Clear MGs and it's a great sound on low gain but I'm normally close to max (maybe 3-4 o clock) if I want it up reasonably loud (what I would call my normal listening volume). If I switch to high gain, it's definitely 'louder' and I can stay closer to 12 o'clock, the travel is a lot faster and it feels like more headroom (maybe less harsh than up near max). But of course, high gain has its own issues (compression of details/dynamics/noise).
> 
> Going back and forth I can't really tell which I prefer the sound of - if anyone has more experience can suggest to me whether I would be better off leaving it in low or high gain. I really hope the SA-2 or whatever they choose to replace this with has a better gain layout and a much better pot because this amp has so much clean and lovely power.


I've had mine for months and I have always preferred low gain. It's not a linear pot, it's logarithmic. So I don't mind if I'm at 4-5 o'clock consistently. That just leaves a lot more fine tuning for iem's and much less demanding headphones.


----------



## Xareh

Hifiearspeakers said:


> I've had mine for months and I have always preferred low gain. It's not a linear pot, it's logarithmic. So I don't mind if I'm at 4-5 o'clock consistently. That just leaves a lot more fine tuning for iem's and much less demanding headphones.


Is there not a risk of damaging amp/headphones running it so close to max so often?


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Xareh said:


> Is there not a risk of damaging amp/headphones running it so close to max so often?


Not at all. And it's not as close to max as you think. Because it's logarithmic, you get  an exponential increase as you get close to 6 pm. So small turns will start to make huge differences there. But on a linear pot, that would happen around 12-1 o'clock for example.


----------



## dstarr3

I just pulled the trigger on a Schiit Modius and Singxer SA-1. Very exciting!


----------



## Mansinthe86

dstarr3 said:


> I just pulled the trigger on a Schiit Modius and Singxer SA-1. Very exciting!




I'm thinking about getting a R2R DAC like the new "musician Draco" or maybe the denafrips ares 2


----------



## TheRealDz

Mansinthe86 said:


> I'm thinking about getting a R2R DAC like the new "musician Draco" or maybe the denafrips ares 2


The Ares 2 is an easy recommendation - that is what I am running into my SA-1, and it sounds fantastic.  

But that Draco looks interesting - especially with its I2S input...


----------



## TheRealDz

I am working my way through through the burn in period, and am now near 100 hours. 

The first day or so was the proverbial "OMG, what have I done???", but now it is settling in. At first, it seemed drier than my Jot2, but now they are both about even in that regard.  As some said, the bass strengthens over time, and that's definitely what I hear.  In fact, I have had to adjust EQ settings that I have had for months, in order to reduce the bass back to equivalent levels.

The Jot2 still seems to have a bit more body, but the SA-1 has more resolution and is more refined sounding.

It is interesting;  the treble doesn't sound dull or blunted, but my Sony IER-M7s sound more mellow than ever - which is a good thing.

The SA-1 still isn't as open sounding as I had hoped, but I will continue to be patient...


----------



## dstarr3

What's the best way to burn it in? Just leave it on overnight pushing some white noise through it for a few days?


----------



## Mansinthe86

I was using mine for a couple of hours today with the focal Elegia that are 32 ohm. And I have everything on low gain. I noticed someone mentioned the SA 1 wouldn't get very loud  with the volume set to 12 o'clock up to
 3pm .

I was more around 10am and it was comfortably Loud for me for Johnny cash, John Lennon, Beatles kinda music.

Rammstein is something I like to listen loud..so I went to 12 o'clock .. maybe 1pm.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Mansinthe86 said:


> I was using mine for a couple of hours today with the focal Elegia that are 32 ohm. And I have everything on low gain. I noticed someone mentioned the SA 1 wouldn't get very loud  with the volume set to 12 o'clock up to
> 3pm .
> 
> I was more around 10am and it was comfortably Loud for me for Johnny cash, John Lennon, Beatles kinda music.
> ...


It definitely depends on the impedance level of the headphones. My Verite are 300 ohms, with a sensitivity of 97 db's. That said, I have never needed high gain. Even on quietly recorded tracks, like Brothers in Arms by Dire Straits, I can still get enough volume on low gain. I am close to max with that song and some songs by Pink Floyd, though.

No worries though, because that's what high gain is for should the need ever arise.


----------



## TheRealDz

dstarr3 said:


> What's the best way to burn it in? Just leave it on overnight pushing some white noise through it for a few days?


I don't think it matters what is playing.  I just put on a long playlist on repeat and let it go for a week.


----------



## TheRealDz

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-V...b-for-6mm-Potentiometer-33-12mm-/193704192766

I bought this for my Jot2, but it didn't fit.  What do you know - it is a direct replacement for the SA-1 knob, except with grooves for a better grip.


----------



## aroldan

Do you guys leave the headphones plugged in when turning on/off the amp?


----------



## jonathan c

aroldan said:


> Do you guys leave the headphones plugged in when turning on/off the amp?


Always: turn amp on, plug in headphone; take out headphone, turn off amp.


----------



## Xareh

oop, I've always left my headphones plugged in when turning on and off. I do turn the amp off when swapping headphones though.


----------



## dstarr3

I also had no idea.


----------



## Mansinthe86

jonathan c said:


> Always: turn amp on, plug in headphone; take out headphone, turn off amp.


Why?

You unplug your loudspeakers from the amp as well before turning the amp off?


----------



## jonathan c

Mansinthe86 said:


> Why?
> 
> You unplug your loudspeakers from the amp as well before turning the amp off?


Not all headphone amplifiers have delay/mute functions. For loudspeaker amplifiers, turn on/off is best done at minimum volume setting.


----------



## ahossain81

Do you guys think SA-1 will work better with Denafrips Ares 2 or Soncoz SGD1?


----------



## Mansinthe86

jonathan c said:


> Not all headphone amplifiers have delay/mute functions. For loudspeaker amplifiers, turn on/off is best done at minimum volume setting.




You are right!
They even say in the manual that you should turn the machine on before plugging headphones in.

http://7097607.s21d-7.faiusrd.com/0...?f=Singxer+SA-1+handbook_V10.pdf&v=1610094301

Another thing they mention is to change slowly from off-pre-amp to hpa.


----------



## Tazyn (Aug 30, 2021)

TheRealDz said:


> ,,, The SA-1 still isn't as open sounding as I had hoped, but I will continue to be patient...


the fuse is the weak point of the SA-1.if you replace it or just solder a standard fuse with a copper wire, it will sound more open.


The SA-1 has built-in protection against overloading the headphones during switching on and off. I don't take out the headphones and don't even turn off the amplifier itself - I just turn off the current supply to the amplifier. The protection relay is triggered in it and the amplifier turns off without harm to the headphones. I do not recommend this method to everyone. But if you turn off the headphones every time you turn off the amplifier , there is a risk that the headphone connection socket may eventually become loose and lose good contact (this will take more than one year).


----------



## Mansinthe86

Tazyn said:


> the fuse is the weak point of the SA-1 if you replace



What fuse would you recommend?



Tazyn said:


> risk that the headphone jack may eventually become loose and lose good contact (this will take more than one year).




I don't see this happening with the XLR connection


----------



## Tazyn

Mansinthe86 said:


> What fuse would you recommend?


I haven't received a new fuse yet. I will not recommend it without my own experience. And I soldered the standard fuse from the outside with a copper wire. The improvements I have heard give me reason to say that this method works.


----------



## nekky

Mansinthe86 said:


> What fuse would you recommend?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There was a good fuse option mentioned earlier in this thread from Hifi-Tuning I believe?? Haven’t looked back but believe it was German or something to that effect. I’m sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in and give the correct size and amperage.


----------



## TheRealDz

Tazyn said:


> I haven't received a new fuse yet. I will not recommend it without my own experience. And I soldered the standard fuse from the outside with a copper wire. The improvements I have heard give me reason to say that this method works.


I am eager to hear your experience with the new fuse.  Dumb question, but what value fuse is required (or is it listed on the unit)? 

I am hesitant to bypass the fuse with wire though. Wouldn't we be giving up the fuse's protection by doing so?


----------



## dstarr3

I also would be interested to hear about your upcoming fuse replacement experience. Please keep us posted!


----------



## Tazyn

Mansinthe86 said:


> I don't see this happening with the XLR connection


you won't see it quickly. But when that happens it will be a problem. Any contact with constant mechanical action (connection/disconnection) will wear out.


----------



## Tazyn

TheRealDz said:


> I am eager to hear your experience with the new fuse.  Dumb question, but what value fuse is required (or is it listed on the unit)?
> 
> I am hesitant to bypass the fuse with wire though. Wouldn't we be giving up the fuse's protection by doing so?


I won't have a new fuse for a while. Closer to winter.
the marking is indicated on the most standard fuse.
yes, if you short-circuit the fuse with a copper wire , it will cease to perform its function.


----------



## Mansinthe86

Tazyn said:


> you won't see it quickly. But when that happens it will be a problem. Any contact with constant mechanical action (connection/disconnection) will wear out.


Just get a short adapter for 4.4mm to XLR or the other way around and leave that plugged in the amp?


----------



## Forsaked

nekky said:


> There was a good fuse option mentioned earlier in this thread from Hifi-Tuning I believe?? Haven’t looked back but believe it was German or something to that effect. I’m sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in and give the correct size and amperage.


The problem with the HiFi-Tuning fuse is, it's delivery backlog.
I am waiting since a month for it, even the company is based in the city i live in.


----------



## Tazyn (Aug 30, 2021)

Mansinthe86 said:


> Just get a short adapter for 4.4mm to XLR or the other way around and leave that plugged in the amp?


as an alternative.

I am not afraid of the wear of the 6.3 jack socket. The simpler the contact , the more reliable it is. My old amplifier is already nine years old and its 6.3 jack from neutrik works well (I usually did not take out the headphones when disconnecting) (but the volume potentiometer from alps is already worn out). The 4-pin XLR contact is more complex than the 6.3 jack, so I assume that it will be easier to break it.


----------



## Tazyn (Aug 30, 2021)

deleted


----------



## Bimbleton

Got a question for you guys. I ordered a Singxer through Apos, was supposed to be delivered via DHL last week. The item hasn't gotten an update since it supposedly 'left' China, and DHL and Apos have been unable to give me any updates on my amp. Both parties keep saying they're looking into it. Delivery date was supposed to be 5 days ago, and now there's not even an estimated delivery date.

Any advice?


----------



## LMTLESS

Bimbleton said:


> Got a question for you guys. I ordered a Singxer through Apos, was supposed to be delivered via DHL last week. The item hasn't gotten an update since it supposedly 'left' China, and DHL and Apos have been unable to give me any updates on my amp. Both parties keep saying they're looking into it. Delivery date was supposed to be 5 days ago, and now there's not even an estimated delivery date.
> 
> Any advice?


Keep chasing daily and if it doesnt arrive within the next 5 working day, look in to doing a chargeback.


----------



## NascentAP

Bimbleton said:


> Got a question for you guys. I ordered a Singxer through Apos, was supposed to be delivered via DHL last week. The item hasn't gotten an update since it supposedly 'left' China, and DHL and Apos have been unable to give me any updates on my amp. Both parties keep saying they're looking into it. Delivery date was supposed to be 5 days ago, and now there's not even an estimated delivery date.
> 
> Any advice?


I don't think you can do anything else other than wait until they figure out where your package is. I've bought several stuff from Apos and they have been excellent to deal with when issues arose (delays in shipping). They will take care of you -eventually- and might even give you a discount coupon for your troubles like they did in my case. I would just email them every several days for an update.


----------



## Bimbleton

Thanks. I just feel left in the dark, and wish I had a delivery date so I could coordinate having someone home to grab the package. It’s a frustrating situation… hope Apos can provide more information.


----------



## spruce

Does anyone have experience pairing the  Singxer  SA-1 with the Ares II? Any feedback would be appreciated!


----------



## NascentAP

spruce said:


> Does anyone have experience pairing the  Singxer  SA-1 with the Ares II? Any feedback would be appreciated!


I do. They sound lovely together with my Arya (best combo), Elex, and Sundara. They are ok on the Hd6xx (like it better on Little Dot MKII) and HE6SE V2 (better on Basx-100).


----------



## spruce (Aug 30, 2021)

Thanks so much! I have the Elex also. I’ve hooked up my Ares II to my RNHP and 6XX with good results, at least to my ears.


----------



## TheRealDz

spruce said:


> Does anyone have experience pairing the  Singxer  SA-1 with the Ares II? Any feedback would be appreciated!


I have the SA-1 and Ares 2, and they sound fantastic together.  I will hook up my HD650 and comment, but I can't imagine it sounding bad with the combo.


----------



## spruce

Thanks! Perhaps it’s a bit smooth for the 6XX…


----------



## Mansinthe86

Does the ares 2 introduce jitter with the SA1 ? Someone told me that the power supply unit in the SA1 would introduce high frequency jitter ? (On this forum)

But while reading on the ASR forum about jitter I'm just getting more confused.


----------



## kingoftown1

Don't listen to sajunky


----------



## Stompy

ahossain81 said:


> Do you guys think SA-1 will work better with Denafrips Ares 2 or Soncoz SGD1?


I don't really have _that _much experience in HiFi but when I went from a Zen Dac Sig + SA-1 to the SGD-1 + SA-1 I felt like I could actually hear the music... heh. I can't speak on the Ares, but I can say that the Singxer + SGD-1 can be a tad bright for my pref, but you also have to keep in mind I'm using the Borealis which are kind of bright. With EQ I like the stack a lot, though. It would also sound good with a darker headphones (like LCD-2, hd650, etc). To be honest with you I feel like I want more slam sometimes, that's the big downside of the SGD-1 for me, which may honestly make me switch dacs down the line.


----------



## TheRealDz

spruce said:


> Thanks! Perhaps it’s a bit smooth for the 6XX…


I gave it a listen, and can say the HD650 sounds fantastic with the SA-1 and Ares 2 - not that it should come at any surprise.  The 650 sounded more open, with a wider soundstage than I have ever heard it.  Truth told, it wasn't THAT much better though - I get the feeling that the 650 finally was reaching the limits of its scalability. 

The SA-1 was NOT too smooth by any stretch.  It is missing the bit of glare in upper mids/lower treble that I didn't previously realize the Jot2 has, but the SA-1 still sounds more open and extended in the higher frequencies than the Jot2.


----------



## Ricey20

So which fuse should I get for 120v? Seems most are using T2A but they're from the 240v areas?


----------



## leter15

Bimbleton said:


> 谢谢。我只是觉得一头雾水，希望我有一个交货日期，这样我就可以协调有人回家拿包裹。这是一个令人沮丧的情况......希望Apos可以提供更多信息。





Bimbleton said:


> Thanks. I just feel left in the dark, and wish I had a delivery date so I could coordinate having someone home to grab the package. It’s a frustrating situation… hope Apos can provide more information.


Now SA-1 production is normal, but it may need to wait.


----------



## leter15

I'm glad to see that everyone likes SA-1.


----------



## Roasty

leter15 said:


> I'm glad to see that everyone likes SA-1.



Leter, will an amp that can drive the susvara well be developed?


----------



## leter15

Roasty said:


> Leter, will an amp that can drive the susvara well be developed?


hi
There is no such plan at present. SA-1 is already very good.


----------



## spruce

Burson Soloist 3X


----------



## Tazyn (Sep 5, 2021)

I wanted to make a volume control-five pieces came out. I worked without a lathe, so the geometry is not perfect. Four handles still need to be finalized, and the fifth immediately fit perfectly. Made of oak and cherry. Photo under the spoiler. 



Spoiler: pens


----------



## Mansinthe86

Is it difficult to replace the volume knob?


----------



## Tazyn

make-yes, replace-no

I have a constant current of 42mA on the dac. Am I not allowed to put jumpers?


----------



## Mansinthe86

What DAC are you all using with the SA1?


----------



## Lolito

ares2



leter15 said:


> I'm glad to see that everyone likes SA-1.


mine gets hot, but other than that...


----------



## equalspeace

Loxjie D50.

It's weird, mine doesn't get that hot anymore. Gets mildly warm now.


----------



## TheRealDz

Mine stays just a bit above room temperature, regardless of load.


----------



## Mansinthe86 (Sep 8, 2021)

Mine got only hot the first couple of times I used it. Now it doesn't get warmer than every other A/B amp that I owned.

Meaning you notice it is on, but nothing to worry about.

So far really impressed with the buildquality. Soundquality. if Singxer ever made A/B loudspeaker amps I would seriously consider getting one.


----------



## Stompy

I just wanted to drop by and give some totally unsolicited advice real quick. If someone has a 6x0 go ahead and try it on high gain. I've been using my new Bori for the last 3 weeks and just wanted to try my 580 and 650 and compare, but they sounded HORRIBLE to me (very, very unengaging, no dynamics at all) and it turns out I had it on low gain. I switched back to high gained like I used to have it and all of a sudden everything came alive.

Not everyone will prefer it but if you have a 6x0 and usually listen to low gain try high gain, it's much more engaging. Don't forget to switch it like me, it almost made me sell my 580 cause I thought they sounded so bad LOL.


----------



## Roland68

Mansinthe86 said:


> Is it difficult to replace the volume knob?


Against what you want to replace him?


----------



## equalspeace

Stompy said:


> I just wanted to drop by and give some totally unsolicited advice real quick. If someone has a 6x0 go ahead and try it on high gain. I've been using my new Bori for the last 3 weeks and just wanted to try my 580 and 650 and compare, but they sounded HORRIBLE to me (very, very unengaging, no dynamics at all) and it turns out I had it on low gain. I switched back to high gained like I used to have it and all of a sudden everything came alive.
> 
> Not everyone will prefer it but if you have a 6x0 and usually listen to low gain try high gain, it's much more engaging. Don't forget to switch it like me, it almost made me sell my 580 cause I thought they sounded so bad LOL.



Agreed, always use high gain with my 600. I also use it w my M1ST which really doesn't need it but sounds phenomenal also


----------



## Mansinthe86

Roland68 said:


> Against what you want to replace him?


Something in silver/grey 😬


----------



## TheRealDz

I may be in the minority, but I prefer the softer sound of low gain.

You all are otherwise right though:  right around the 300 hour mark, mine both mellowed out and opened up.  Juicy midrange, delicate highs, and a wide open soundstage.  My closed-back DCA Ether CX now sound way more open than a closed-back design should sound. Damn.


----------



## dstarr3

Aw heck yeah, just took delivery today.


----------



## dstarr3

Boy, the AKG Sextetts are some thirsty headphones. I mean, that much is obvious, but even with this amp on high gain and Hi-Z, I still need to turn the volume to about 2 o'clock or 2:30 to rock. This is only single-ended, though. I've been considering doing a balanced mod on these, because if there's any headphone that would benefit from the extra juice a balanced amp can provide, it's the Sextett.


----------



## jonathan c

dstarr3 said:


> Boy, the AKG Sextetts are some thirsty headphones. I mean, that much is obvious, but even with this amp on high gain and Hi-Z, I still need to turn the volume to about 2 o'clock or 2:30 to rock. This is only single-ended, though. I've been considering doing a balanced mod on these, because if there's any headphone that would benefit from the extra juice a balanced amp can provide, it's the Sextett.


~ The AKG Sextett has a sensitivity of 95.7 dB/V; in comparison, the Sennheiser HD-600 has a sensitivity of 105.1 dB/V - quite a difference!
~ What are you seeking to modify? Amp or headphone? If the headphone, I doubt that the sensitivity would be increased.


----------



## aroldan

I've been running the SA-1 using singled ended output for two weeks and I loved the sound. Yesterday, the XLR cable arrived for my Arya's and now I think I'm missing something with the sound. It's definitely punchier but It's lacking some sweetness. Is that normal? Will it be improving with time?


----------



## TheMiddleSky

aroldan said:


> I've been running the SA-1 using singled ended output for two weeks and I loved the sound. Yesterday, the XLR cable arrived for my Arya's and now I think I'm missing something with the sound. It's definitely punchier but It's lacking some sweetness. Is that normal? Will it be improving with time?



Nice photo.

Do you use exactly same cable for SE and XLR? 

Generally balance produce wider soundstage, extra clarity, also extra bass weight while removing some harmonic distortion


----------



## aroldan

TheMiddleSky said:


> Nice photo.
> 
> Do you use exactly same cable for SE and XLR?
> 
> Generally balance produce wider soundstage, extra clarity, also extra bass weight while removing some harmonic distortion


I was using Arya's stock SE cable. I think I should take a look for a DAC upgrade now


----------



## Roland68

Mansinthe86 said:


> Something in silver/grey 😬


I thought wrong, you want to replace the rotary knob.
Since my potentiometer has a strong deviation in the channels at the beginning and at the end, I am considering swapping it for a potentiometer with SMD resistors or something relay-based.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

aroldan said:


> I was using Arya's stock SE cable. I think I should take a look for a DAC upgrade now


If you use XLR silver cable it may become another factor to count of loss a little of sweetness compare to copper based standard cable..


----------



## patatchod

Tazyn said:


> For abyss 1266, it is rational to use nimbus as a end game.


Rational ?
What does that mean, rational ?

I've listened to the Abyss with the XI Audio Formula S, which is supposed to be the most "competent" amp and then with a simple little SMSL SP200.

The last was 95% as good as the former...

The main difference was a better staging with the formula.

The SA-1 will certainly drive perfectly the Abyss...


----------



## Roland68

patatchod said:


> The SA-1 will certainly drive perfectly the Abyss...


I would also like to hear a Niimbus against the SA-1. I had listened to several amplifiers at a headphone fair 2 years ago, but the Niimbus was the only one that really flashed me.
In addition to the SA-1, I have had a Violectric HPA V100 for years and I know the (very small) tonal difference to the V200 / V280. That's why I didn't expect any quantum leaps from the Niimbus. The V280 sounded like I expected it to be at the show, but the Niimbus was a lot better. Much blacker background and much clearer / more resolving. Both on the same DAC, of course.
This is one of the few devices I would trust myself to do a blind test on.
But I'm also sure that the SA-1 powers the Abyss without problems

If someone in Germany has a Niimbus in Cologne or in the Ruhr area, I'll be happy to bring a few devices and headphones for comparison.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

patatchod said:


> Rational ?
> What does that mean, rational ?
> 
> I've listened to the Abyss with the XI Audio Formula S, which is supposed to be the most "competent" amp and then with a simple little SMSL SP200.
> ...



which dac you use?


----------



## patatchod

TheMiddleSky said:


> which dac you use?


Denafrips pontus 2 > formula / sp200 > superconducor > abyss phy


----------



## TheMiddleSky

We listen differently then 

For me the upgrade from SP200 to Formuls S for Abyss 1266 Phi TC is huge and jaw dropping.


----------



## patatchod

TheMiddleSky said:


> We listen differently then
> 
> For me the upgrade from SP200 to Formuls S for Abyss 1266 Phi TC is huge and jaw dropping.


I don't think we listen differently. 
I think that your definition of "huge" and "jaws dropping" in not the same as mine... 
There are some differences, I do agree,  but very thin, mainly in the soundstage. 
Moreover, it also depends on the headphones. For example, when I replace the Abyss with the D8000Pro, the differences become almost inaudible (except for the sound stage...).


----------



## Mansinthe86

Would the SA1 work with planar headphones like the Dan Clark 2 Noir ?


----------



## Roland68

Mansinthe86 said:


> Would the SA1 work with planar headphones like the Dan Clark 2 Noir ?


Why shouldn't he? There is enough power.


----------



## NPWS

Hi everyone, my SA-1 just arrived today. any suggestion what's DAC would be the best pair on budget not more than $700? I have mojo right now, but I need new balance DAC for pairing with SA-1 to drive my oppo PM-1, Hifiman Edition X V2 and Senn HD 660S.
I've been reading the review for Ares 2 / Topping D70s / D90SE / Schiit Bifrost.
unfortunately I can't try the demo unit, because there's no local distributor in my country for those items.
thanks


----------



## Roland68

NPWS said:


> Hi everyone, my SA-1 just arrived today. any suggestion what's DAC would be the best pair on budget not more than $700? I have mojo right now, but I need new balance DAC for pairing with SA-1 to drive my oppo PM-1, Hifiman Edition X V2 and Senn HD 660S.
> I've been reading the review for Ares 2 / Topping D70s / D90SE / Schiit Bifrost.
> unfortunately I can't try the demo unit, because there's no local distributor in my country for those items.
> thanks


If you can still get a Gustard A18 with MQA, I would suggest that too.
I had compared it with X16, D70, SMSL M400, Loxjie D50 and A18 without MQA and it was allowed to remain unambiguous. Of course, this has nothing to do with MQA, I suspect that either the XMOS 216 chip does a better job, or Gustard has improved something significantly between the two versions.

But I would also like to make a comparison with the D90SE topping.


----------



## NPWS (Sep 14, 2021)

Roland68 said:


> If you can still get a Gustard A18 with MQA, I would suggest that too.
> I had compared it with X16, D70, SMSL M400, Loxjie D50 and A18 without MQA and it was allowed to remain unambiguous. Of course, this has nothing to do with MQA, I suspect that either the XMOS 216 chip does a better job, or Gustard has improved something significantly between the two versions.
> 
> But I would also like to make a comparison with the D90SE topping.


so sad, same with Gustard, no local distributor in my country.
but I found in my local second hand audio store, there's D70 without S and SMSL SU-9 MQA, is it a good choice to take D70? I never heard both of them before.
honestly I don't really need MQA decoder for now, maybe for futureproof it's okay.


----------



## Roland68

NPWS said:


> so sad, same with Gustard, no local distributor in my country.
> but I found in my local second hand audio store, there's D70 without S and SMSL SU-9 MQA, is it a good choice to take D70? I never heard both of them before.
> honestly I don't really need MQA decoder for now, maybe for futureproof it's okay.


It's also very difficult to find an MQA version. As I said, with the MQA version only applies to the A18 and does not refer to MQA files, I cannot say it for other devices. So far I haven't heard any advantage with MQA files over normal Flac's (only my personal experience).
The SU-9 had any problems with (harmonic?) Distortions on a channel, which could be fixed by a software update at support. But there is no way, not even from the firmware version, to tell whether it was done. Since it has only been known for a short time, a used device will not yet be the current version.

So I would take the D70, it also has a very good reputation.


----------



## benteo87

Will the sa1 pair well with the Ares 2 and he5se?


----------



## Roland68

Does anyone know how much K the potentiometer has in the SA-1?


----------



## Pigeon X

I just got my gustard x16 in and it sounds really good with sa1 so far. I don't have anything to compare with aside from a scarlet 2i2 and xduoo xd05 though. And it's very clearly better than those. Really clear and spacious sound overall. But the NOS mode is a bit of a head-scratcher.


----------



## equalspeace

NPWS said:


> Hi everyone, my SA-1 just arrived today. any suggestion what's DAC would be the best pair on budget not more than $700? I have mojo right now, but I need new balance DAC for pairing with SA-1 to drive my oppo PM-1, Hifiman Edition X V2 and Senn HD 660S.
> I've been reading the review for Ares 2 / Topping D70s / D90SE / Schiit Bifrost.
> unfortunately I can't try the demo unit, because there's no local distributor in my country for those items.
> thanks



I luv my Loxjie D50, so it gets my vote. Sounds amazin w the SA-1


----------



## Roland68

equalspeace said:


> I luv my Loxjie D50, so it gets my vote. Sounds amazin w the SA-1


Have you compared the Loxjie D50 with other DACs?


----------



## equalspeace

Roland68 said:


> Have you compared the Loxjie D50 with other DACs?



Only to the Topping DX7 Pro and SMSL SU-9. It's beats both of them hands down. The main characteristics the D50 is bringing to the table is naturalness with nice note weight and preciseness/effortlessness in how it's positioning/layering instruments in the stage presentation. Oh and it gave me more headroom on the Atom and SA-1, as well as the ability to listen at lower volumes without sacrificing textures and dynamics


----------



## NPWS

Roland68 said:


> It's also very difficult to find an MQA version. As I said, with the MQA version only applies to the A18 and does not refer to MQA files, I cannot say it for other devices. So far I haven't heard any advantage with MQA files over normal Flac's (only my personal experience).
> The SU-9 had any problems with (harmonic?) Distortions on a channel, which could be fixed by a software update at support. But there is no way, not even from the firmware version, to tell whether it was done. Since it has only been known for a short time, a used device will not yet be the current version.
> 
> So I would take the D70, it also has a very good reputation.


thanks mate! still considering between D70 and DX7Pro, I found that DX7Pro $530 in my local audio store BNIB just old stock, is it good price?


equalspeace said:


> I luv my Loxjie D50, so it gets my vote. Sounds amazin w the SA-1


thanks! I'll searching review for Loxjie D50


----------



## Muataz

NPWS said:


> Hi everyone, my SA-1 just arrived today. any suggestion what's DAC would be the best pair on budget not more than $700? I have mojo right now, but I need new balance DAC for pairing with SA-1 to drive my oppo PM-1, Hifiman Edition X V2 and Senn HD 660S.
> I've been reading the review for Ares 2 / Topping D70s / D90SE / Schiit Bifrost.
> unfortunately I can't try the demo unit, because there's no local distributor in my country for those items.
> thanks


I think you should go for D70s cheaper and will done dac or you may jump for SDA-6 basic version.


----------



## NPWS (Sep 21, 2021)

Muataz said:


> I think you should go for D70s cheaper and will done dac or you may jump for SDA-6 basic version.


way out of budget for SDA-6 for now.
is there anyone had trying this with schiit Gungnir with no multibit ?


----------



## Stompy

So I'm trying to decide if I want to keep this amp long term or sell it. So far I've only tested the SE output. I just wanted to quickly ask: does using the balanced output improve sound with the SA-1? Is it a significant difference? I know a lot of people said that was the case with Schiit amps and other balanced amps, including this one according to some. Any replies would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Muataz

Stompy said:


> So I'm trying to decide if I want to keep this amp long term or sell it. So far I've only tested the SE output. I just wanted to quickly ask: does using the balanced output improve sound with the SA-1? Is it a significant difference? I know a lot of people said that was the case with Schiit amps and other balanced amps, including this one according to some. Any replies would be greatly appreciated.


You should try the balance cable. it is the strength point of this amp.


----------



## Mansinthe86

Se uses only 1 of the for 4 amp things inside. Don't really know how to call it. Balanced uses all 4.


----------



## JaquesGelee (Sep 21, 2021)

Mansinthe86 said:


> Se uses only 1 of the for 4 amp things inside. Don't really know how to call it. Balanced uses all 4.


Do you mean the gain switches on the bottom of the device or to use a 6W balanced amplification at all?


----------



## Muataz

JaquesGelee said:


> Do you mean the gain switches on the bottom of the device or to use a 6W balanced amplification at all?


I think he mean the amplifer channels, their are 4 amplifer section


----------



## Stompy

Thanks for the responses, I know the point is that it can run balanced but how does it actually affect sound? It seems like it's a positive change, but what changes, exactly?


----------



## JaquesGelee (Sep 21, 2021)

Stompy said:


> Thanks for the responses, I know the point is that it can run balanced but how does it actually affect sound? It seems like it's a positive change, but what changes, exactly?



I could explain it in my own words, but my english isn't that good. So....

There you are:

https://www.moon-audio.com/single-ended-versus-balanced-connection

and 

https://www.moon-audio.com/how-to-choose-balanced-unbalanced-audio

*Only an example

Cheers


----------



## Stompy

JaquesGelee said:


> I could explain it in my own words, but my english isn't that good. So....
> 
> There you are:
> 
> ...


Thank you, but what I meant is what differences did you notice between SE and XLR on the sa-1, specifically? Like, what can I expect to change in this specific case?


----------



## JaquesGelee

Stompy said:


> Thank you, but what I meant is what differences did you notice between SE and XLR on the sa-1, specifically? Like, what can I expect to change in this specific case?


Depends on your ears and headphones.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Stompy said:


> Thank you, but what I meant is what differences did you notice between SE and XLR on the sa-1, specifically? Like, what can I expect to change in this specific case?


For higher impedance and/or more difficult to drive headphones, balanced always yields a larger and wider soundstage with better separation and a more defined bass line. I also noticed these same traits with the THX 789.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Stompy said:


> Thank you, but what I meant is what differences did you notice between SE and XLR on the sa-1, specifically? Like, what can I expect to change in this specific case?


For easy to drive headphone, expect cleaner black background, better separation, micro detail and treble/bass extension. Also expect a slight cooler midrange tonality.

For hard to drive headphone, balance would provide "everything is upgrade" improvement.


----------



## aroldan

Stompy said:


> Thank you, but what I meant is what differences did you notice between SE and XLR on the sa-1, specifically? Like, what can I expect to change in this specific case?


You can't honestly expect a night and day difference. With my Arya's, when I switched from SE to XLR, I noticed maybe a slightly better imaging and little more natural voices. The only thing that was more pronounced was the bass impact, without being actually a huge change.


----------



## Stompy

Awesome. I actually forgot, I did try the ZMF cans on XLR once and I thought they had wonderful microdynamics, when I later asked a very experienced friend he said that he actually thinks they aren't too good, which might point to XLR helping with that. I will be getting the cheapest version of Forza cables (130 euros for my variant) and I hope to see some improvements.

Thank you all for taking your time to answer my question. I hope it will make a small difference at least. I've been using my Borealis for over a month now so I should pick up on smaller differences too


----------



## MAK1975

Enjoying reading the impressions of the SA-1.  I currently have the Jot1 and this would be a nice upgrade.  The only thing that bothers me about this amp is the gain switches on the very bottom.  I wish they would have just put the low and high gain right on the front next to the low z/high z switch.  If I am switching from my HD650 (300ohm) on high gain down to say my AKG371 (32ohms) to low gain it would be a major pain.  Lifting up my stack (AMP, DAC, Streamer) everytime I switch from an easy to drive to a hard to drive headphone would get old really quick.  My Jot1 is larger than my DAC and Streamer so I would most likely have the SA-1 on the very bottom of the stack. If you are going to use the SA-1 with a larger assortment of headphones it would benefit from sitting on the top of your stack so you could easily pick it up and switch it. 

Or can you power most headphones including the 650s and ZMFs strictly on the low gain setting?  What about the Fostex T50-RP MKIII's on low gain?  I have an SMSL SU8 v2 balanced DAC so I can get a higher voltage output via balanced.

 Maybe I'll just have to be patient and wait until they release the SA-2 or just upgrade to the Jot2.


----------



## Stompy

MAK1975 said:


> Enjoying reading the impressions of the SA-1.  I currently have the Jot1 and this would be a nice upgrade.  The only thing that bothers me about this amp is the gain switches on the very bottom.  I wish they would have just put the low and high gain right on the front next to the low z/high z switch.  If I am switching from my HD650 (300ohm) on high gain down to say my AKG371 (32ohms) to low gain it would be a major pain.  Lifting up my stack (AMP, DAC, Streamer) everytime I switch from an easy to drive to a hard to drive headphone would get old really quick.  My Jot1 is larger than my DAC and Streamer so I would most likely have the SA-1 on the very bottom of the stack. If you are going to use the SA-1 with a larger assortment of headphones it would benefit from sitting on the top of your stack so you could easily pick it up and switch it.
> 
> Or can you power most headphones including the 650s and ZMFs strictly on the low gain setting?  What about the Fostex T50-RP MKIII's on low gain?  I have an SMSL SU8 v2 balanced DAC so I can get a higher voltage output via balanced.
> 
> Maybe I'll just have to be patient and wait until they release the SA-2 or just upgrade to the Jot2.


It's indeed a huge pain. It can drive an hd650 and (IIRC from my testing) ZMF on low gain, but that just doesn't sound good, to be honest. My Borealis sounds good on low gain but that's the only one that's sounded good on low gain. The 650 on low gain sounds much less dynamic, too soft, boring. Generally just not engaging, at all, IMO. like I said the question might not be if it can drive something to satisfactory volume, but if it actually sounds good on low gain, which none of the high impedeance cans I tried did. Including 650, 580, ZMF Auteur & Aeolus, Arya, etc.


----------



## MAK1975

Stompy said:


> It's indeed a huge pain. It can drive an hd650 and (IIRC from my testing) ZMF on low gain, but that just doesn't sound good, to be honest. My Borealis sounds good on low gain but that's the only one that's sounded good on low gain. The 650 on low gain sounds much less dynamic, too soft, boring. Generally just not engaging, at all, IMO. like I said the question might not be if it can drive something to satisfactory volume, but if it actually sounds good on low gain, which none of the high impedeance cans I tried did. Including 650, 580, ZMF Auteur & Aeolus, Arya, etc.


You confirmed exactly what I was afraid of.  I love that the SA-1 is mostly Class A, but it will get old really fast having to pickup my stack everytime I have to switch from low to high gain.  I tried low gain on my Jot1 with my HD650s and it sounds underwhelming. Poor dynamics and bass response.  I have to turn the volume knob all the way to 2 o' clock to get the right listening level and even then it sounds sounds like the amp is straining.  

The other amps in this range available right now are the A90 and Jot2, but I am not sure how much of an audible upgrade these would be.  I have Roon running with parametric EQ and the Jot1 has enough juice to power all of my headphones.  It sounds really good to me.  Plus it's easy to switch from low to high gain.  I can even deal with the power switch being on the back of the unit.  At least it's not underneath! 

I appreciate the info. I think I am going to be patient for now and wait for something else to come along.  The Burson Soloist 3x looks like a very nice option, but it's nearly twice the price at $1100 and the form factor might be too deep for my narriow desk.  The Jots or SA-1 will fit perfectly.


----------



## Muataz

MAK1975 said:


> Enjoying reading the impressions of the SA-1.  I currently have the Jot1 and this would be a nice upgrade.  The only thing that bothers me about this amp is the gain switches on the very bottom.  I wish they would have just put the low and high gain right on the front next to the low z/high z switch.  If I am switching from my HD650 (300ohm) on high gain down to say my AKG371 (32ohms) to low gain it would be a major pain.  Lifting up my stack (AMP, DAC, Streamer) everytime I switch from an easy to drive to a hard to drive headphone would get old really quick.  My Jot1 is larger than my DAC and Streamer so I would most likely have the SA-1 on the very bottom of the stack. If you are going to use the SA-1 with a larger assortment of headphones it would benefit from sitting on the top of your stack so you could easily pick it up and switch it.
> 
> Or can you power most headphones including the 650s and ZMFs strictly on the low gain setting?  What about the Fostex T50-RP MKIII's on low gain?  I have an SMSL SU8 v2 balanced DAC so I can get a higher voltage output via balanced.
> 
> Maybe I'll just have to be patient and wait until they release the SA-2 or just upgrade to the Jot2.


I think low gain may drive hd650 to very loud level ? Does it ?


----------



## TheRealDz (Sep 22, 2021)

MAK1975 said:


> You confirmed exactly what I was afraid of.  I love that the SA-1 is mostly Class A, but it will get old really fast having to pickup my stack everytime I have to switch from low to high gain.  I tried low gain on my Jot1 with my HD650s and it sounds underwhelming. Poor dynamics and bass response.  I have to turn the volume knob all the way to 2 o' clock to get the right listening level and even then it sounds sounds like the amp is straining.
> 
> The other amps in this range available right now are the A90 and Jot2, but I am not sure how much of an audible upgrade these would be.  I have Roon running with parametric EQ and the Jot1 has enough juice to power all of my headphones.  It sounds really good to me.  Plus it's easy to switch from low to high gain.  I can even deal with the power switch being on the back of the unit.  At least it's not underneath!
> 
> I appreciate the info. I think I am going to be patient for now and wait for something else to come along.  The Burson Soloist 3x looks like a very nice option, but it's nearly twice the price at $1100 and the form factor might be too deep for my narriow desk.  The Jots or SA-1 will fit perfectly.


I owned the A90 for about 2 months, but hated it.  I got sucked into the hype, and then wanted to give it time to burn in.  It never did, so I sold it.

I then bought a Jot2 and had it for about 6 months.  I honestly had no complaints - it is a solid unit and sounds light years better than the A90 (regardless of what the measurements say).

I recently bought an SA-1 and sold my Jot2.  It took about 300 hours of use to settle in.  But now it sounds spectacular.

I use it in low gain.  I prefer its softer sound, compared to high gain, which I believe has an edge.   I run it balanced (input and output), and it goes beyond loud.  Ie, louder than I could ever come close to being able to stand for more than a second.

Fwiw, I use an Ether CX, which draws a lot of power.  I have also tried my HD650.  While it may take up to 2 or 3 o'clock on the SA-1's dial, it never runs out of power.

TL;DR:  You would be missing out on a spectacular sounding unit out of what I believe are ungrounded fears.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

TheRealDz said:


> I owned the A90 for about 2 months, but hated it.  I got sucked into the hype, and then wanted to give it time to burn in.  It never did, so I sold it.
> 
> I then bought a Jot2 and had it for about 6 months.  I honestly had no complaints - it is a solid unit and sounds light years better than the A90 (regardless of what the measurements say).
> 
> ...


Agreed. It drives my 300 ohm Verite to very loud levels on low gain. I never use high gain, and also think it sounds better on low.


----------



## Roland68

MAK1975 said:


> The only thing that bothers me about this amp is the gain switches on the very bottom.  I wish they would have just put the low and high gain right on the front next to the low z/high z switch.


Each manufacturer has to decide in the development phase whether he or she is to base the design (both comfort and circuit board layout) on good sound reproduction or on simple operation.
Singxer has clearly opted for the best sound solution for the SA-1. The signal is fed from the inputs directly through the coupling capacitors, potentiometer and then immediately into the first discrete amplifier stage. This is one of the most consistent layouts I've seen so far.
The switches for low / high gain are located directly in the first amplifier stage. The signal paths in this area should be kept as short as possible. To route these signals through half the device at very low levels, ideally through the power supply to the other switches, would be more than idiotic.
I suspect that the developer did not expect to switch them all the time, otherwise the whole thing could have been controlled via relays. But also again more complex and expensive.

There is no need to worry about the lifespan of the switches. Such switches are specified with over 50,000 switching cycles, even if they are switched 10 times a day that is enough for 15 years.


----------



## NascentAP

TheRealDz said:


> I owned the A90 for about 2 months, but hated it.  I got sucked into the hype, and then wanted to give it time to burn in.  It never did, so I sold it.
> 
> I then bought a Jot2 and had it for about 6 months.  I honestly had no complaints - it is a solid unit and sounds light years better than the A90 (regardless of what the measurements say).
> 
> ...


This has been my experience as well - even down to the preference for low gain - except I skipped Jot2 and went straight to the SA-1 from A90.

Prior to A90, my only exposure to amplifiers was L30, Liquid Spark (which I really like a lot for the $80 I paid), and BasX-a100 and despite waddling only in entry level gear, I was never impressed by the A90. Using primarily Arya and Elex, I gave A90 time to burn, got a new DAC (Ares II), and switched to all balanced connection but I could not get over the flat sound that lacked contours. When I first plugged in the SA-1, it sounded like how I imagined the A90 to sound.

Fed by Ares II via balanced, SA-1 is powerful enough, even for my HE6SE V2. With the Arya, it usually stays between 2-3pm on low gain. It gets plenty loud and dynamic at this volume. HE6 is around 5pm and maxing out the SA-1 (~5:30pm) on low gain gets to "too loud but not painful". Like you, I didn't really like the sound on high gain but didn't realize why.


----------



## Stompy

MAK1975 said:


> You confirmed exactly what I was afraid of.  I love that the SA-1 is mostly Class A, but it will get old really fast having to pickup my stack everytime I have to switch from low to high gain.  I tried low gain on my Jot1 with my HD650s and it sounds underwhelming. Poor dynamics and bass response.  I have to turn the volume knob all the way to 2 o' clock to get the right listening level and even then it sounds sounds like the amp is straining.
> 
> The other amps in this range available right now are the A90 and Jot2, but I am not sure how much of an audible upgrade these would be.  I have Roon running with parametric EQ and the Jot1 has enough juice to power all of my headphones.  It sounds really good to me.  Plus it's easy to switch from low to high gain.  I can even deal with the power switch being on the back of the unit.  At least it's not underneath!
> 
> I appreciate the info. I think I am going to be patient for now and wait for something else to come along.  The Burson Soloist 3x looks like a very nice option, but it's nearly twice the price at $1100 and the form factor might be too deep for my narriow desk.  The Jots or SA-1 will fit perfectly.


Sounds like a good idea. If my budget increases in the future I too will likely get a Soloist 3x. The rebel amp is another option in the price range, though.


----------



## GabrielC

Hi guys, looking for help/advice.

My Sinxer sa 1 worked fine last evening. When starting it today the led will not turn blue (stays on red). Any idea what may have caused it and how to fix it?
Notes :  didn’t do the jumper mod (so warranty is still valid); I live in NL and there are no power outrages .

Thank you very much in advance.


----------



## equalspeace (Sep 25, 2021)

TheRealDz said:


> I owned the A90 for about 2 months, but hated it.  I got sucked into the hype, and then wanted to give it time to burn in.  It never did, so I sold it.
> 
> I then bought a Jot2 and had it for about 6 months.  I honestly had no complaints - it is a solid unit and sounds light years better than the A90 (regardless of what the measurements say).
> 
> ...



I'm prob approaching something like 60 hours on the SA-1. Looking forward to hearing what it sounds like at 300. Love this amp.


----------



## Muataz

NascentAP said:


> This has been my experience as well - even down to the preference for low gain - except I skipped Jot2 and went straight to the SA-1 from A90.
> 
> Prior to A90, my only exposure to amplifiers was L30, Liquid Spark (which I really like a lot for the $80 I paid), and BasX-a100 and despite waddling only in entry level gear, I was never impressed by the A90. Using primarily Arya and Elex, I gave A90 time to burn, got a new DAC (Ares II), and switched to all balanced connection but I could not get over the flat sound that lacked contours. When I first plugged in the SA-1, it sounded like how I imagined the A90 to sound.
> 
> Fed by Ares II via balanced, SA-1 is powerful enough, even for my HE6SE V2. With the Arya, it usually stays between 2-3pm on low gain. It gets plenty loud and dynamic at this volume. HE6 is around 5pm and maxing out the SA-1 (~5:30pm) on low gain gets to "too loud but not painful". Like you, I didn't really like the sound on high gain but didn't realize why.


Even your Ares II output only 4.0V you have enough volume, that is good. SA-1 Can take 4.4v to reach max watt power.


----------



## Stompy

equalspeace said:


> I'm prob approaching something like 60 hours on the SA-1. Looking forward to hearing what it sounds like at 300. Love this amp.


I've been using for every day 10 hours a day since July and I may be remembering incorrectly but I feel like after a few hundred hours they became more natural sounding. I know someone else mentioned it becoming more bassy over time, I think this may actually be the case. I used to feel like I was lacking a lot of bass with my hd580 but now they feel more balanced in terms of roll off. I don't know. This is all very easy to misremember, so don't trust a word i say


----------



## Stompy

GabrielC said:


> Hi guys, looking for help/advice.
> 
> My Sinxer sa 1 worked fine last evening. When starting it today the led will not turn blue (stays on red). Any idea what may have caused it and how to fix it?
> Notes :  didn’t do the jumper mod (so warranty is still valid); I live in NL and there are no power outrages .
> ...


I really don't know how to help you but since you're from the NL I assume you also bought it from Magnahifi? Just know that if anything goes wrong they're great guys to deal with and will do anythnig they can to help.


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno

TheRealDz said:


> I owned the A90 for about 2 months, but hated it.  I got sucked into the hype, and then wanted to give it time to burn in.  It never did, so I sold it.
> 
> I then bought a Jot2 and had it for about 6 months.  I honestly had no complaints - it is a solid unit and sounds light years better than the A90 (regardless of what the measurements say).
> 
> ...


I'm stuck debating between a Jot2 and the SA-1. Both seem like great amps that are hard to go wrong with. Anything in particular you enjoy more about the SA-1 vs Jot2 that justifies the price difference?


----------



## Friskyseal

LetTheKidsTechno said:


> I'm stuck debating between a Jot2 and the SA-1. Both seem like great amps that are hard to go wrong with. Anything in particular you enjoy more about the SA-1 vs Jot2 that justifies the price difference?



My SA-1 is arriving Monday so I haven't heard it yet, but I just returned the Jot 2 to buy it instead. The Jot 2 has a fatal flaw for me in that it's usable volume range is so poor. Feeding from the Bifrost 2, I couldn't use the XLR outs at all because I couldn't get past 8:30 on the volume dial. Switching to SE out, I got about a half hour more of range but it still went something like this: 8:00 is too quiet and 9:00 is approaching painfully loud. It was unacceptable to me that I couldn't use the full capabilities of the matching DAC so I returned it. From everything I've read the SA-1 has a much wider range of usable volume, so I'm super excited for it.

It's such a shame because it's a beautiful amp, especially stacked on top of Bifrost.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

The SA-1 combined with the Musician Audio Pegasus is simply a sublime combo. I have never owned an R2R DAC before, but their reputation is warranted. The Singxer already casts a wide and layered soundstage, and the Pegasus adds to that effect. I don’t think I could ever go back to a delta sigma DAC. I will be selling my Modius very soon.

This amp is just fantastic to my ears.


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno

Friskyseal said:


> My SA-1 is arriving Monday so I haven't heard it yet, but I just returned the Jot 2 to buy it instead. The Jot 2 has a fatal flaw for me in that it's usable volume range is so poor. Feeding from the Bifrost 2, I couldn't use the XLR outs at all because I couldn't get past 8:30 on the volume dial. Switching to SE out, I got about a half hour more of range but it still went something like this: 8:00 is too quiet and 9:00 is approaching painfully loud. It was unacceptable to me that I couldn't use the full capabilities of the matching DAC so I returned it. From everything I've read the SA-1 has a much wider range of usable volume, so I'm super excited for it.
> 
> It's such a shame because it's a beautiful amp, especially stacked on top of Bifrost.


Oh dam, I can see how that would be very frustrating. Thanks for your input. Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the SA-1 once you get some time with it.


----------



## TheRealDz (Sep 28, 2021)

LetTheKidsTechno said:


> I'm stuck debating between a Jot2 and the SA-1. Both seem like great amps that are hard to go wrong with. Anything in particular you enjoy more about the SA-1 vs Jot2 that justifies the price difference?


@Hifiearspeakers sums it up well;  the SA-1 has a wide and layered soundstage - more so than the Jot2.  Those are the differences that stand out most to me.  Also, treble is simultaneously more extended, but smoother.  Ie, I don't feel the need to use EQ to tame the treble on my Sony IER-M7 as I otherwise did with the Jot2.

You truly can't go wrong with either, but I think SA-1 is well worth the $200 or so difference in price.  That soundstage improvement brings such a smile to my face every time...


----------



## TheRealDz

LetTheKidsTechno said:


> Oh dam, I can see how that would be very frustrating. Thanks for your input. Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the SA-1 once you get some time with it.


I never had a problem with the Jot2 volume range (or lack thereof).  But admittedly the entire listening range was between perhaps 9 and 11 o'clock for me.  Whereas, the SA-1 ranges between maybe 11 and 3 o'clock for most of my listening (on low gain).


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno

TheRealDz said:


> @Hifiearspeakers sums it up well;  the SA-1 has a wide and layered soundstage - more so than the Jot2.  Those are the differences that stand out to me.  Treble is simultaneously more extended, but smoother.  Ie, I don't feel the need to EQ to tame the treble on my Sony IER-M7 as I otherwise did with the Jot2.
> 
> You truly can't go wrong with either, but I think SA-1 is well worth the $200 or so difference in price.  That soundstage improvement brings such a smile to my face every time...


Thank you for the explanation. Sounds like a worthwhile upgrade over the Jot2. Would love to stretch and just grab a Burson Soloist but it's a bit outside the price range for now. Going to keep my eyes peeled for a good deal on a used SA-1


----------



## TheRealDz

LetTheKidsTechno said:


> Thank you for the explanation. Sounds like a worthwhile upgrade over the Jot2. Would love to stretch and just grab a Burson Soloist but it's a bit outside the price range for now. Going to keep my eyes peeled for a good deal on a used SA-1


That was my logic exactly. 

If you are in the US, Apos will price match for $539...


----------



## TheMiddleSky

TheRealDz said:


> I never had a problem with the Jot2 volume range (or lack thereof).  But admittedly the entire listening range was between perhaps 9 and 11 o'clock for me.  Whereas, the SA-1 ranges between maybe 11 and 3 o'clock for most of my listening (on low gain).


still plenty power left after 3 o'clock, it's a non linear potentiometer


----------



## Mansinthe86

TheMiddleSky said:


> still plenty power left after 3 o'clock, it's a non linear potentiometer



Never went above 1 o'clock on low gain with the SA1


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

I'm on the verge of getting the SA-1, but one of my Main concerns is being able to use it as a preamp, with no coloration. Can anyone comment on pre-amp usage for the SA?

Thanks in advance!!


----------



## dstarr3

I can't really comment on it in regards to coloration because I don't think its sound is that particularly colored to begin with, but I do also use mine as a preamp for my computer speakers and it sounds great. I use the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers connected to the preamp out via RCA-to-3.5mm adapter.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

dstarr3 said:


> I can't really comment on it in regards to coloration because I don't think its sound is that particularly colored to begin with, but I do also use mine as a preamp for my computer speakers and it sounds great. I use the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers connected to the preamp out via RCA-to-3.5mm adapter.


Thank you so much, I appreciate the feedback!


----------



## JaquesGelee

Hey there,

I got the Singxer SA-1 here and what should i say!?

I got it on High Gain and the Volume Nov to max and it isn't that loud!?

Normal or DOA?

Thank you


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

JaquesGelee said:


> Hey there,
> 
> I got the Singxer SA-1 here and what should i say!?
> 
> ...


How are you feeding it? What headphones are you using?


----------



## JaquesGelee

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> How are you feeding it? What headphones are you using?


Denafrips Ares II with Mac via USB.
Connected via RCA, XLR is not available at present. But as i understood Currawong(?) right, there should be no difference!?

I used:

Fostex T50RP MKIII, Koss KPH30i, several Grado's, DT770 250 Ohm, Aeon 2 Flow, Philipps SPH 9500 so far in the first Test.

Cheers


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

JaquesGelee said:


> Denafrips Ares II with Mac via USB.
> Connected via RCA, XLR is not available at present. But as i understood Currawong(?) right, there should be no difference!?
> 
> I used:
> ...


Thanks so much! I have yet to get my Singxer and was curious as I'm being told there are some issues with "Mac OS" and Ares II but I'm not 100% fixed on what they are yet.

I did have an issue with a HPA and USB mac connection, but it was completely on me as I didn't realize at the moment that it was the Volume on the Mac that was doing it to me, went crazy for a bit until I realized it, lol

Looking forward to more results as I count down the days to order!!

Thanks!!


----------



## JaquesGelee

Mr BubbaHyde said:


> Thanks so much! I have yet to get my Singxer and was curious as I'm being told there are some issues with "Mac OS" and Ares II but I'm not 100% fixed on what they are yet.
> 
> I did have an issue with a HPA and USB mac connection, but it was completely on me as I didn't realize at the moment that it was the Volume on the Mac that was doing it to me, went crazy for a bit until I realized it, lol
> 
> ...


Software Volume is on 100% in Mac.

So, i am really confused actually.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

That's interesting, I was going to order soon, probably from Apos unless there's a better option.

I am trying to use IEM's more as they are of current interest to me, but I have Sennheiser 58x Jubilee from Drop, Phillips Fidelio X2HR ,and Grado's Ill be using with it as well!

Cheers!!


----------



## Roland68

JaquesGelee said:


> Denafrips Ares II with Mac via USB.
> Connected via RCA, XLR is not available at present. But as i understood Currawong(?) right, there should be no difference!?
> 
> I used:
> ...


With what software?

The volume is the same, regardless of whether it is XLR or chinch.
I already had the SA-1 on several DACs, currently on the Gustard A18, and I can't turn up the T50RP MK III fully at low gain, but almost.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

JaquesGelee said:


> Hey there,
> 
> I got the Singxer SA-1 here and what should i say!?
> 
> ...


Makes no sense to me. I could drive my 300ohm Verite with ease on low gain to deafening levels. In fact, I’ve never needed high gain for any of my headphones.


----------



## JaquesGelee (Oct 1, 2021)

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Makes no sense to me. I could drive my 300ohm Verite with ease on low gain to deafening levels. In fact, I’ve never needed high gain for any of my headphones.


Maybe i overlooked something!? These where my first impressions for a short duration till i had to go for my second workshift today. Like noticed before, RCA and XLR shouldn't be different. Same Loudness in both a saw and read.

Then the device is doa i think!?

@Roland68 :

I've tested with foobar.


----------



## NascentAP (Oct 1, 2021)

JaquesGelee said:


> Maybe i overlooked something!? These where my first impressions for a short duration till i have to go for my second shift today. Like noticed before, RCA and XLR shouldn't be different. Same Loudness in both a saw and read.
> 
> Then the device is doa i think!?
> 
> ...


These are steps I would take before contacting your vendor for a faulty device:

1) Update Ares II USB driver to the latest one at (I think its like v5.2).
2) Give the SA-1 time to burn in - I remember reading earlier in the thread where several users commented about coincident volume increases with burn in.

However, despite these steps, my gut feeling is that you got a dud. Mine never needed to burn in to get louder nor did I ever feel that the volume is too low. I can drive HE6 V2 to sufficiently loud levels on low gain.

Perhaps it might be good to catalogue issues relevant to the SA-1. I remember a couple of users (even recently) having issues with red error light, which indicates amp overload(?). I wonder if and how these issues were resolved.

Edit: I should note that my connection (both input/output) are all balanced, which is relevant as indicated by TheMiddleSky.


----------



## Roland68

JaquesGelee said:


> Maybe i overlooked something!? These where my first impressions for a short duration till i had to go for my second workshift today. Like noticed before, RCA and XLR shouldn't be different. Same Loudness in both a saw and read.
> 
> Then the device is doa i think!?
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, I don't know Foobar.
Are you sure the volume isn't turned down somewhere?
Foobar settings or midi settings on the MAC?

Before you send the SA-1 back as a DOA, you should check all possibilities. It would be annoying if you have the same situation on the next device.
- Measure the output voltage AC on the DAC with a multimeter with a 1KHz sine signal
- or connect the SA-1 to a DAP or MAC


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Oct 1, 2021)

JaquesGelee said:


> Denafrips Ares II with Mac via USB.
> Connected via RCA, XLR is not available at present. But as i understood Currawong(?) right, there should be no difference!?
> 
> I used:
> ...


https://www.denafrips.com/specs-ares

Ares II would provide 4V via XLR out, which is twice more powerful than RCA out at 2V. Having XLR connection would provide louder sound when everything is equal.

Back when I owned Singxer, I only use low gain for ZMF Verite (97dB/300 Ohm) and Abyss Diana Phi (90db/32 Ohm). Feed by 3V signal from Chord Qutest. Also, always remember that it's non linear potentiometer, even after 3 o'clock there is still plenty power left.


----------



## quawn0418

JaquesGelee said:


> Denafrips Ares II with Mac via USB.
> Connected via RCA, XLR is not available at present. But as i understood Currawong(?) right, there should be no difference!?
> 
> I used:
> ...


Hey my friend, you have the right idea just at the wrong stage, the singxer will match levels with balanced and single ended output, what your are referring to is the input stage, which is all determined by your dac, you’ll certainly see more gain using xlr.


----------



## Ohhellyea

Anyon has experience with the OG Focal clear and the gain settings here? What is your preferred setting?


----------



## Pigeon X

Ohhellyea said:


> Anyon has experience with the OG Focal clear and the gain settings here? What is your preferred setting?


I don't find much of a difference between the gain settings on the clear so I keep it on low gain. The z setting makes a huge difference though. Hi-z sounds much more spacious and less aggressive.


----------



## equalspeace (Oct 4, 2021)

The SA-1 just gets better and better. I leave mine on high gain as I listen mostly with the HD600. Volume usually stays at 10 o'clock and i adjust the DAC volume as needed. Been using the ZX300 and A35 as sources from the line out with fantastic effect. They sound better from the line out than my xDuoo X10t, with more depth to the stage and overall musicality. Even the A35 from the line out sounds so so good. It's really an underrated aspect of the Sony players.


----------



## Friskyseal

equalspeace said:


> The SA-1 just gets better and better. I leave mine on high gain as I listen mostly with the HD600. Volume usually stays at 10 o'clock and i adjust the DAC volume as needed. Been using the ZX300 and A35 as sources from the line out with fantastic effect. They sound better than from the line out than my xDuoo X10t, with more depth to the stage and overall musicality. Even the A35 from the line out sounds so so good. It's really an underrated aspect of the Sony players.



Just curious, do you run the HD600 out of the SE or XLR? Have you tested for a difference?


----------



## equalspeace

Friskyseal said:


> Just curious, do you run the HD600 out of the SE or XLR? Have you tested for a difference?



Mostly run them with a 4.4mm to XLR adapter. or directly from the 4.4mm output. Depends on how I'm feeling haha. I haven't actually listened to the SE that much, perhaps only once or twice. I can try it, but it'll be with an adapter. Listening now..


----------



## Friskyseal

equalspeace said:


> Mostly run them with a 4.4mm to XLR adapter. or directly from the 4.4mm output. Depends on how I'm feeling haha. I haven't actually listened to the SE that much, perhaps only once or twice. I can try it, but it'll be with an adapter. Listening now..



The reason I ask is that I just swapped my Jotunheim 2 for the Singxer. On the Jot 2, I definitely preferred the SE out for HD6XX specifically (not for other headphones though). The XLR out of the Jot 2 was actually *too* dynamic and made the 6XX sound a little too out-of-character for my taste. I'm wondering if it would be the same case with the Singxer; I suspect not, but I don't have a balanced cable right now to test.


----------



## equalspeace

Separation is better on balanced. Instrument placement is different, a bit more complex if that's the word. It's def not the same. In terms of sound character for me the tonality is almost the same. Balanced sounds a bit louder and a hair clearer, nothing drastic. 


Friskyseal said:


> The reason I ask is that I just swapped my Jotunheim 2 for the Singxer. On the Jot 2, I definitely preferred the SE out for HD6XX specifically (not for other headphones though). The XLR out of the Jot 2 was actually *too* dynamic and made the 6XX sound a little too out-of-character for my taste. I'm wondering if it would be the same case with the Singxer; I suspect not, but I don't have a balanced cable right now to test.


----------



## Friskyseal

equalspeace said:


> Separation is better on balanced. Instrument placement is different, a bit more complex if that's the word. It's def not the same. In terms of sound character for me the tonality is almost the same. Balanced sounds a bit louder and a hair clearer, nothing drastic.



Okay, thanks for your reply. I'm gonna order a cheap cable to test it out myself.


----------



## equalspeace

Friskyseal said:


> Okay, thanks for your reply. I'm gonna order a cheap cable to test it out myself.



No problem. 

Random pic of the gear mentioned:


----------



## Roland68

equalspeace said:


> The SA-1 just gets better and better. I leave mine on high gain as I listen mostly with the HD600. Volume usually stays at 10 o'clock and i adjust the DAC volume as needed. Been using the ZX300 and A35 as sources from the line out with fantastic effect. They sound better from the line out than my xDuoo X10t, with more depth to the stage and overall musicality. Even the A35 from the line out sounds so so good. It's really an underrated aspect of the Sony players.


I had the same experience with the xDuoo X10T and the Sony A45, the X10T was actually better with headphones.
Has anyone used the X10T-II?


----------



## equalspeace

Roland68 said:


> I had the same experience with the xDuoo X10T and the Sony A45, the X10T was actually better with headphones.
> Has anyone used the X10T-II?



I was actually referring to the X10T-II. My bad, I should've been clearer in my previous posts


----------



## Ohhellyea

Sweet jesus and all thats holy, this thing is incredible! Just got it delivered, connected it to my dac using a Focal Clear, and I'm literally laughing in awe while listening to Goldfrapp's Tales of Us album.  What the everloving voodo heck they built into this amp works.


----------



## TheRealDz

Ohhellyea said:


> Sweet jesus and all thats holy, this thing is incredible! Just got it delivered, connected it to my dac using a Focal Clear, and I'm literally laughing in awe while listening to Goldfrapp's Tales of Us album.  What the everloving voodo heck they built into this amp works.


Now just give it another 300 hours and then you will REALLY be impressed...


----------



## Roland68

equalspeace said:


> I was actually referring to the X10T-II. My bad, I should've been clearer in my previous posts


You wrote that the Sony's sounded better from the line out. The X10T-II only has digital outputs, what was the setup like?


----------



## equalspeace

Roland68 said:


> You wrote that the Sony's sounded better from the line out. The X10T-II only has digital outputs, what was the setup like?



I connected the X10T-II via the USB C port. It's only a container for music files. It's not a full DAP.


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno

So I've had this amp a few days now and in short I love it. My path so far with my LCD2's has been Schiit Heresy/Modi3 -> Schiit Magnius/Modius. I've been keeping an eye out for a used black Jot2 but decided to try something different after reading and seeing glowing reviews for the Singxer. I wasn't quite sure how big an upgrade this would be as its my first entry into $500+ amps, but my worries were forgotten immediately.

The Singxer is more revealing, has a wider soundstage and brings actual depth to the music. The Magnius is a great amp for $200 as an entry into fully balanced setups, but it's definitely outclassed by the Singxer. The Magnius brings everything forward, while the Singxer has a wider soundstage and is better at tracing how far or close different sounds are coming from. The Singxer is also a lot smoother of a listening experience. I never really made anything of it, but the Magnius was fatiguing for me after a few hours listening session. I would take breaks then come back to it. With the Singxer I'm able to listen for much longer without having to take breaks. Its just a clean, smooth, and enjoyable listening experience. Also, what is it going to take for Schiit to have a power switch on the front! The Singxer is well built and I much prefer its volume pot versus the Magnius. Having the high/low switch on the bottom is a strange design decision but I don't really fiddle with it so no issues for me there. 

As my name suggests, I listen to a lot of electronic music. Techno, progressive house, etc.. Herein lies my only gripe with the amp. I feel like the dynamics could be a bit better. I'm using it on high gain, and when a track calls for it there's decent punch. But from what I recall of my experiences at Canjam with using LCD's, there was better low end punch/slam on some of the amps I tried. This is obviously an absolutely terrible comparison since many of those amps cost in the thousands. From what I've read the Jot2 brings more energy in that sense, but I'm really loving the Singxer and don't have plans on switching/upgrading anytime soon.

I've read some of the reviews of those who've done the mod, and quite honestly I'm extremely hesitant to open the amp and give it a try. I'll be running this thing in its stock form for the foreseeable future.


----------



## AltCtrl

Is this amp more neutral or warm? I currently have a THX 887 which is more neutral but I'm looking for a more warm amp to go with my Beyerdynamic headphone collection. I listed to EDM/Metal/Industrial. Any suggestions?


----------



## NascentAP

LetTheKidsTechno said:


> So I've had this amp a few days now and in short I love it. My path so far with my LCD2's has been Schiit Heresy/Modi3 -> Schiit Magnius/Modius. I've been keeping an eye out for a used black Jot2 but decided to try something different after reading and seeing glowing reviews for the Singxer. I wasn't quite sure how big an upgrade this would be as its my first entry into $500+ amps, but my worries were forgotten immediately.
> 
> The Singxer is more revealing, has a wider soundstage and brings actual depth to the music. The Magnius is a great amp for $200 as an entry into fully balanced setups, but it's definitely outclassed by the Singxer. The Magnius brings everything forward, while the Singxer has a wider soundstage and is better at tracing how far or close different sounds are coming from. The Singxer is also a lot smoother of a listening experience. I never really made anything of it, but the Magnius was fatiguing for me after a few hours listening session. I would take breaks then come back to it. With the Singxer I'm able to listen for much longer without having to take breaks. Its just a clean, smooth, and enjoyable listening experience. Also, what is it going to take for Schiit to have a power switch on the front! The Singxer is well built and I much prefer its volume pot versus the Magnius. Having the high/low switch on the bottom is a strange design decision but I don't really fiddle with it so no issues for me there.
> 
> ...


Yep, totally agree about the low end dynamics. The SA-1 outclasses my Emotiva BasX A-100 in just about everything _except_ for the low end punch. I especially notice this when I use the HE6 V2, which sounds better to me on the BasX just for this reason.



AltCtrl said:


> Is this amp more neutral or warm? I currently have a THX 887 which is more neutral but I'm looking for a more warm amp to go with my Beyerdynamic headphone collection. I listed to EDM/Metal/Industrial. Any suggestions?


I never heard the THX 887 but I did move from the A90 (which is supposed to have THX-like neutrality) to the SA-1. From this transition, I would say the SA-1 is warmer than the A90 for sure but I would not characterize the SA-1 as a warm amp. So somewhere in between neutral and warm is where I would put the SA-1 in my humble opinion.


----------



## TheRealDz

AltCtrl said:


> Is this amp more neutral or warm? I currently have a THX 887 which is more neutral but I'm looking for a more warm amp to go with my Beyerdynamic headphone collection. I listed to EDM/Metal/Industrial. Any suggestions?


I would call it pretty neutral, with a hint of warmth.  More important, it simply isn't sterile or clinical (like the A90) - which many people mistake for being warm.


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno

AltCtrl said:


> Is this amp more neutral or warm? I currently have a THX 887 which is more neutral but I'm looking for a more warm amp to go with my Beyerdynamic headphone collection. I listed to EDM/Metal/Industrial. Any suggestions?


Best bet is probably a Jot2, especially with the type of music you listen to. It will have the warmth and low end punch you're looking for. The Singxer is definitely not warm, but not completely neutral either.


----------



## AltCtrl

LetTheKidsTechno said:


> Best bet is probably a Jot2, especially with the type of music you listen to. It will have the warmth and low end punch you're looking for. The Singxer is definitely not warm, but not completely neutral either.


Does the Jot2 have a pre-amp switch so I can effortlessly switch between headphones/speakers? Is the Bitfrost 2 a good dac to go with it? I currently have a Chord 2Qute.


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno

AltCtrl said:


> Does the Jot2 have a pre-amp switch so I can effortlessly switch between headphones/speakers? Is the Bitfrost 2 a good dac to go with it? I currently have a Chord 2Qute.


It does.  I know the BF2 is one of the best DACs under a $1000, not sure how it compares to your Chord 2Qute. I'm sure someone else can weigh in.


----------



## jrjr99

AltCtrl said:


> Is this amp more neutral or warm? I currently have a THX 887 which is more neutral but I'm looking for a more warm amp to go with my Beyerdynamic headphone collection. I listed to EDM/Metal/Industrial. Any suggestions?


it would be worth having a listen to a Violectric V280/281....plenty of power and a hint of warmth that makes my old HD800 sing


has anyone compared the Singxer to the V280??? i would be interested in opinions


----------



## jotaku

equalspeace said:


> No problem.
> 
> Random pic of the gear mentioned:


Is that the Loxjie D50? I've been bouncing around the idea of getting this as an upgrade from my Grace SDAC Balanced. How have you liked it?


----------



## equalspeace

jotaku said:


> Is that the Loxjie D50? I've been bouncing around the idea of getting this as an upgrade from my Grace SDAC Balanced. How have you liked it?



I luv it. It's awesome. I had the SU-9 prior to getting it and it's a nice step up from that DAC.


----------



## Vzyenyx

For someone who skimmed through a few pages whats the mod that people are doing internally and what purpose does it accomplish? Was looking into trying this out sometime


----------



## Tazyn (Oct 12, 2021)

Tazyn said:


> I have a constant current of 42mA on the dac. Am I not allowed to put jumpers?


The master who made my headphones (snorry si-1) said that they could only be broken by a faulty amplifier or if they were connected to speaker terminals. Therefore, I made the mod despite the presence of a constant current in the DAC (42mA). The mod was made a month ago and did not come back. I enjoyed it. Later today I will remove the mod, let's see if there will be a difference


----------



## Tazyn

I removed the jumpers in sa-1 (returned to the factory state), then put them back, repeated twice. Without the mod, I heard a decrease in resolution and an increase in the average bass. But there is a positive point to be found in this - bad records are softened. In fact, the mod only removes the capacitors from the signal path, which, though a little, but tinge the sound. Perhaps such an influence may come to taste. I think the manufacturer also knew about this and selected capacitors in accordance with his understanding. Perhaps later I myself will return the sa-1 to factory condition, but not today.
The impact of the mod can be compared to replacing the power cable. I still think that first of all you need to change the fuse in the sa-1. The rest later.


----------



## arnesto (Oct 13, 2021)

Long time lurker here, I just received my Singxer SA-1 amp today. I wanted to ask if anyone else was having this problem with their amp. I’m using the HD800 and the listenable range is when the volume knob is between 4 to 5 o’clock. At max volume (which is about 5:30 o’clock) it is loud enough but anything below 3 o’clock the volume is too low. I set the gain settings underneath the amp, all 4 switches to high gain, it improved only a little bit. I tried different dacs at max gain setting, so I know it’s not the dac signal.

Do I have a defective unit?


----------



## Friskyseal

arnesto said:


> Long time lurker here, I just received my Singxer SA-1 amp today. I wanted to ask if anyone else was having this problem with their amp. I’m using the HD800 and the listenable range is when the volume knob is between 9 to 11 o’clock. At max volume it’s loud enough but anything below 8 o’clock the volume is too low. I set the gain settings underneath the amp, all 4 switches to high gain, it improved only a little bit. I tried different dacs at max gain setting, so I know it’s not the dac signal.
> 
> Do I have a defective unit?



Your numbers don't make sense; I think you might have them reversed? (You're really saying it's too quiet all the way up to 3, and then the listening range is between 3 and 5? The 9 is on the left [low volume] and the 3 is on the right [high volume])

In any case, I suspect you are using SE and not XLR? If you're using SE, it does make sense if you are a moderate to higher volume listener. Get a balanced cable for your HD800 and it should solve your problem. If you are already using XLR, then yes it would seem like there is a problem with the unit.


----------



## arnesto (Oct 13, 2021)

Friskyseal said:


> Your numbers don't make sense; I think you might have them reversed? (You're really saying it's too quiet all the way up to 3, and then the listening range is between 3 and 5? The 9 is on the left [low volume] and the 3 is on the right [high volume])
> 
> In any case, I suspect you are using SE and not XLR? If you're using SE, it does make sense if you are a moderate to higher volume listener. Get a balanced cable for your HD800 and it should solve your problem. If you are already using XLR, then yes it would seem like there is a problem with the unit.


Yeah, you are right. I meant the listenable range 4 to 5 o’clock.
and the volume knob maxes out at 5:30pm.

I have both SE and XLR cables, there was a small increase in volume switching over to XLR. I also tried using a balanced headphone cable and XLR from DAC to amp.

Thanks for confirming that I have a defective unit.


----------



## gdwallasign

arnesto said:


> Yeah, you are right. I meant the listenable range 4 to 5 o’clock.
> and the volume knob maxes out at 5:30pm.
> 
> I have both SE and XLR cables, there was a small increase in volume switching over to XLR. I also tried using a balanced headphone cable and XLR from DAC to amp.
> ...


When I first got mine I had an instance where it was like that. I just let it burn in for another day or so and I'm all good.


----------



## arnesto

gdwallasign said:


> When I first got mine I had an instance where it was like that. I just let it burn in for another day or so and I'm all good.


Hmm, that’s very interesting. I’ll leave it on overnight and try again tomorrow.


----------



## GabrielC

Stompy said:


> I really don't know how to help you but since you're from the NL I assume you also bought it from Magnahifi? Just know that if anything goes wrong they're great guys to deal with and will do anythnig they can to help.


Thank you. Indeed the kind gentlemen from Magna Hifi sorted it out.  Excellent customer service. 
It looks like my  SA1 went on permanent protection mode. Nothing I could have done to prevent it. Now works fine (glad i didn't do the MOD otherwise would have had to pay the repair).


----------



## Francisk

GabrielC said:


> Thank you. Indeed the kind gentlemen from Magna Hifi sorted it out.  Excellent customer service.
> It looks like my  SA1 went on permanent protection mode. Nothing I could have done to prevent it. Now works fine (glad i didn't do the MOD otherwise would have had to pay the repair).


Maybe you can share with us regarding your permanent protection issue that you're facing so that it can help the others here who's facing the same issue. Thank you.


----------



## JaquesGelee (Oct 15, 2021)

arnesto said:


> Yeah, you are right. I meant the listenable range 4 to 5 o’clock.
> and the volume knob maxes out at 5:30pm.
> 
> I have both SE and XLR cables, there was a small increase in volume switching over to XLR. I also tried using a balanced headphone cable and XLR from DAC to amp.
> ...


Same to me like you described. The device get's louder after a special period of time instantly without switching the volume knob.

@GabrielC:
How could i define that my device also is in this mode?

Thank you


----------



## dstarr3

I was having a look through the manual for this amp, and I saw this little bit in regards to the off/preamp/headphone switch:


> Note: do not dial the mode selection switch quickly.


When I'm done listening to headphones, I'll just hit the switch straight from HPA to off. Does this bit in the manual mean that I should hang out on the Preamp setting for a few seconds before turning it off, or does it mean just that I shouldn't sit here twiddling the switch up and down constantly for fun?


----------



## aroldan

Tazyn said:


> I removed the jumpers in sa-1 (returned to the factory state), then put them back, repeated twice. Without the mod, I heard a decrease in resolution and an increase in the average bass. But there is a positive point to be found in this - bad records are softened. In fact, the mod only removes the capacitors from the signal path, which, though a little, but tinge the sound. Perhaps such an influence may come to taste. I think the manufacturer also knew about this and selected capacitors in accordance with his understanding. Perhaps later I myself will return the sa-1 to factory condition, but not today.
> The impact of the mod can be compared to replacing the power cable. I still think that first of all you need to change the fuse in the sa-1. The rest later.


Which fuse do you recommend?


----------



## royalemint

dstarr3 said:


> I was having a look through the manual for this amp, and I saw this little bit in regards to the off/preamp/headphone switch:
> 
> When I'm done listening to headphones, I'll just hit the switch straight from HPA to off. Does this bit in the manual mean that I should hang out on the Preamp setting for a few seconds before turning it off, or does it mean just that I shouldn't sit here twiddling the switch up and down constantly for fun?


That's a good question, I would like to know as well.


----------



## TheRealDz

aroldan said:


> Which fuse do you recommend?


Yes - which fuse do you recommend for US 115v power?


----------



## rjacko01

I've had mine for 6 months or so & never turned it off on the back, & it seems fine, just using the front toggle


----------



## TheMiddleSky

arnesto said:


> Long time lurker here, I just received my Singxer SA-1 amp today. I wanted to ask if anyone else was having this problem with their amp. I’m using the HD800 and the listenable range is when the volume knob is between 4 to 5 o’clock. At max volume (which is about 5:30 o’clock) it is loud enough but anything below 3 o’clock the volume is too low. I set the gain settings underneath the amp, all 4 switches to high gain, it improved only a little bit. I tried different dacs at max gain setting, so I know it’s not the dac signal.
> 
> Do I have a defective unit?


What is your source or dac?

Amplifier job is to amplify signal, if you feed them with weak voltage, then singxer only amplified weak signal. Something 2-3V should be working well for most headphones.


----------



## rjacko01

I'm driving HE6se & they are not the most easy to drive & I do have to turn the volume pot up,
running from SMSL SU-9, wouldn't say there is loads of headroom, but never need to turn it full.
Are you running balanced or SE? Know it's said makes no difference, but it sure as hell does coming from your source
as previous poster said...


----------



## rjacko01

arnesto said:


> Long time lurker here, I just received my Singxer SA-1 amp today. I wanted to ask if anyone else was having this problem with their amp. I’m using the HD800 and the listenable range is when the volume knob is between 4 to 5 o’clock. At max volume (which is about 5:30 o’clock) it is loud enough but anything below 3 o’clock the volume is too low. I set the gain settings underneath the amp, all 4 switches to high gain, it improved only a little bit. I tried different dacs at max gain setting, so I know it’s not the dac signal.
> 
> Do I have a defective unit?



you need to give a bit more info about your chain rather than sig. only.. I can listen to those HE6se no problem at 11 o'clock, although I'm not not rocking out in any sense,
but plenty ok, with the HD800 you should have no real problem if your source is good?


----------



## Deceneu808

arnesto said:


> Long time lurker here, I just received my Singxer SA-1 amp today. I wanted to ask if anyone else was having this problem with their amp. I’m using the HD800 and the listenable range is when the volume knob is between 4 to 5 o’clock. At max volume (which is about 5:30 o’clock) it is loud enough but anything below 3 o’clock the volume is too low. I set the gain settings underneath the amp, all 4 switches to high gain, it improved only a little bit. I tried different dacs at max gain setting, so I know it’s not the dac signal.
> 
> Do I have a defective unit?


I'm in the exact same boat. Feeding it XLR from RME ADI-2. Volume increases very gently until 3 o clock and the it goes from quiet to loud very quick. Must be the pot. I know they use Alps but is it a 20K, 50K, 100K ? Haven't bothered too much with it though


----------



## Tazyn

aroldan said:


> Which fuse do you recommend?





Tazyn said:


> I haven't received a new fuse yet. I will not recommend it without my own experience. And I soldered the standard fuse from the outside with a copper wire. The improvements I have heard give me reason to say that this method works.


----------



## Tazyn

TheRealDz said:


> Yes - which fuse do you recommend for US 115v power?


I have a 220 volt amplifier


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Deceneu808 said:


> I'm in the exact same boat. Feeding it XLR from RME ADI-2. Volume increases very gently until 3 o clock and the it goes from quiet to loud very quick. Must be the pot. I know they use Alps but is it a 20K, 50K, 100K ? Haven't bothered too much with it though


The Singxer uses a logarithmic volume pot. It is NOT LINEAR.


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Oct 18, 2021)

It was fun comparison! Topping D90SE with XLR output feed Topping A90, Singxer SA-1, and Schiit Jotunheim 2

At that moment I tried with Abyss Diana Phi and Focal Clear MG.

All three amps are indeed excellent for the price.

Power: (Based on Gain and Watt)
1. Schiit Jotunheim 2
2. Topping A90
3. Singxer SA1

Note: Singxer is far from weak, it's just that Singxer provide the lowest gain (amplified factor). Singxer capable to push Diana with ease.

Treble:
1. Singxer SA-1
2. Topping A90
3. Schiit Jotunheim 2

Most airy feeling, with most micro detail, Singxer take the crown here. The best part, Singxer is actually the most linear in treble area, high pitch of piano seems free of peak/harshness. A90 and Jotunheim 2 while less airy, but produce more peak in piano notes. Jotunheim is the darkest of the three with the least airy feeling as well. (Remember that these three amps still close to neutral, so don't imagine awful lack of treble quantity from Schiit).

Midrange:
1a. Singxer SA-1
1b. Schiit Jotunheim 2
2. Topping A90

Both singxer and schiit provide slight forward vocal with dense and full body tonality. While texture slight better with Singxer, Jotun provide slight fuller lower midrange. Sibilance is hard to heard, unless the recording produce much of them. Topping is a little drier in this section, with more laidback position. I'd give a nod to Topping if the extreme neutrality is your main concern. Personally, I chase natural more than neutral here.

Bass:
1a. Schiit Jotunheim 2
1b. Singxer SA-1
1c. Topping A90

Love them all! Jotunheim 2 produce biggest bass, Topping is the least, Singxer on the middle. Both three amps render bass texture nicely, deep down to sub bass level. Most impact goes to Jotunheim, while A90 and SA-1 share the same result.

Soundstage:
1. SIngxer SA-1
2. Topping A90
3. Schiit Jotunheim 2

The airy feeling, combine with the actual soundstage size, make Singxer goes to the top. Not only the size, actually imaging also more structured on Singxer SA-1 compared the other amps. Schiit Jotunheim 2 definitely create the "narrowest" imaging here.

Conclusion:
Singxer SA-1 is still my most favourite amp for under $1000, very all round character with great micro detail and soundstage. Being neutral, but slight sweetness on vocal is blissful.

Schiit Jotunheim 2, punch the hardest, in expense of airy feeling and soundstage.

Topping A90, is most dead neutral, even when compared to other close to neutral amps.


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

TheMiddleSky said:


> It was fun comparison! Topping D90SE with XLR output feed Topping A90, Singxer SA-1, and Schiit Jotunheim 2
> 
> At that moment I tried with Abyss Diana Phi and Focal Clear MG.
> 
> ...


 Very nice comparisons!


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Hifiearspeakers said:


> Very nice comparisons!



Thanks. There are solid reasons whey they so hyped up in the market nowadays!


----------



## TheRealDz

TheMiddleSky said:


> Thanks. There are solid reasons whey they so hyped up in the market nowadays!


Great descriptions! 

I own the SA-1, but used to own the A90, then Jot2.  Your take on the SA-1 and Jot2 is spot on.  Your take on the A90 is also accurate, but I think a bit kind.  It is indeed neutral, but also sterile and clinical sounding.  The SA-1 sounds so much more like real music, regardless of its neutrality or lack thereof...


----------



## JaquesGelee (Oct 18, 2021)

Hifiearspeakers said:


> The Singxer uses a logarithmic volume pot. It is NOT LINEAR.


Actually i feed my SA-1 in Low-Gain with Ares II via XLR. Music came from a MacBook via Foobar.

*I already asked for help a few weeks ago.

I tried several Headphones. Actually i test with Arya V1with XLR and with Poti on max. The Volume is absolutely moderate, not loud in any way.

Still about to find the mistake.


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno

TheMiddleSky said:


> It was fun comparison! Topping D90SE with XLR output feed Topping A90, Singxer SA-1, and Schiit Jotunheim 2
> 
> At that moment I tried with Abyss Diana Phi and Focal Clear MG.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this. Definitely the three main amps I was looking at for upgrading. I've gone with the Singxer and love it so far. Curious, would you say the Singxer is pretty far behind the Jot2 in terms of "punchiness" or is it close? That's literally my only gripe with the Singxer, it's such a great all around amp.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

TheRealDz said:


> Great descriptions!
> 
> I own the SA-1, but used to own the A90, then Jot2.  Your take on the SA-1 and Jot2 is spot on.  Your take on the A90 is also accurate, but I think a bit kind.  It is indeed neutral, but also sterile and clinical sounding.  The SA-1 sounds so much more like real music, regardless of its neutrality or lack thereof...



I notice there are some areas in upper mid that may cause "sterile" effect on A90, and the fact that A90 produce the least mid-bass compare the other two amps.



LetTheKidsTechno said:


> Thank you so much for this. Definitely the three main amps I was looking at for upgrading. I've gone with the Singxer and love it so far. Curious, would you say the Singxer is pretty far behind the Jot2 in terms of "punchiness" or is it close? That's literally my only gripe with the Singxer, it's such a great all around amp.


I don't think the difference in punch is that big and become deal breaker for Singxer. On Clear MG (which is very punch and lively headphone) it's possible some people would prefer more polite punch of Singxer. So everything back on synergy and preference. 

I do also realise that both headphone I tested (Diana Phi and Clear MG) is rather intimate and don't have such large soundstage, therefore Singxer's performance in soundstage is so beneficial. Perhaps my thought about favourite amp could be different if I use Senn HD800 (solid punch with smaller soundstage of Jotun 2 could take a lead).


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno

TheMiddleSky said:


> I notice there are some areas in upper mid that may cause "sterile" effect on A90, and the fact that A90 produce the least mid-bass compare the other two amps.
> 
> 
> I don't think the difference in punch is that big and become deal breaker for Singxer. On Clear MG (which is very punch and lively headphone) it's possible some people would prefer more polite punch of Singxer. So everything back on synergy and preference.
> ...


Thank you for your input, really appreciated. I currently have an LCD2 and the larger soundstage was definitely the first thing that popped out at me with the Singxer. Honestly, I'm done trying to upgrade or find something better. This amp fits all my needs at a reasonable price. Time to just enjoy the music


----------



## IZONE

TheMiddleSky said:


> Thanks. There are solid reasons whey they so hyped up in the market nowadays!


Great comparison MiddleSky! I have two of the three sitting at home along with the OG Jot 

I'm still trying to form more solid impressions before doing a mini comparison for folks on this thread but I do agree with you in general. Just when I thought I had some firm impressions burn-in keeps changing the sound plus juggling two DACs, the Qutest and Bifrost 2, between them has been a lot of fun but also delaying comparison impressions. I went through a phase when I thought that A90 was too sterile, but I've moved beyond that now with a lot of burn-in, when it's toasty hot it sounds crazy transparent/wide-spectrum top to bottom without being sterile - it's a great amp just need to burn-in and also clean up the power supply. Having said that, the Singxer seems to be pulling ahead. My thoughts are to keep both and pair one with the Qutest and the other with the Bifrost 2. I will update you all once I get more solid impressions as the SA-1 only has about a 100 hours right now. OG Jot is not being used much lately but it was a champ for many years in the past and has its own thing


----------



## TheMiddleSky (Oct 22, 2021)

IZONE said:


> Great comparison MiddleSky! I have two of the three sitting at home along with the OG Jot
> 
> I'm still trying to form more solid impressions before doing a mini comparison for folks on this thread but I do agree with you in general. Just when I thought I had some firm impressions burn-in keeps changing the sound plus juggling two DACs, the Qutest and Bifrost 2, between them has been a lot of fun but also delaying comparison impressions. I went through a phase when I thought that A90 was too sterile, but I've moved beyond that now with a lot of burn-in, when it's toasty hot it sounds crazy transparent/wide-spectrum top to bottom without being sterile - it's a great amp just need to burn-in and also clean up the power supply. Having said that, the Singxer seems to be pulling ahead. My thoughts are to keep both and pair one with the Qutest and the other with the Bifrost 2. I will update you all once I get more solid impressions as the SA-1 only has about a 100 hours right now. OG Jot is not being used much lately but it was a champ for many years in the past and has its own thing



Sometimes I feel that A90 has noticeable glare that may bother me, but when I try with some smoother sounding headphone, the problem disappear. For something like Clear MG, LCD 2 Classic, and ZMF Aeolus, definitely A90 has no such harsh problem, and the synergy is actually great with these headphones.

As you wrote though, everytime I think A90 perform really nice, when I switch to Singxer, it always pulling ahead again in soundstage and "extra" smoothness without being less detail and transparent. I know some people here who listen a lot of rock and japanese songs that prefer the extra treble bite of A90 though (compare to Singxer), so everything always back to preference.

Not so long ago (3-4 months ago) actually my main set up consist of Qutest + Singxer SA-1. Lovely combo with Diana Phi indeed.


----------



## pirex (Oct 25, 2021)

AltCtrl said:


> Does the Jot2 have a pre-amp switch so I can effortlessly switch between headphones/speakers?


no, it doesn't, you can only switch between headphones / headphones + speakers


----------



## arnesto

arnesto said:


> Long time lurker here, I just received my Singxer SA-1 amp today. I wanted to ask if anyone else was having this problem with their amp. I’m using the HD800 and the listenable range is when the volume knob is between 4 to 5 o’clock. At max volume (which is about 5:30 o’clock) it is loud enough but anything below 3 o’clock the volume is too low. I set the gain settings underneath the amp, all 4 switches to high gain, it improved only a little bit. I tried different dacs at max gain setting, so I know it’s not the dac signal.
> 
> Do I have a defective unit?


I contacted Drop and they were good enough to send me out a new replacement unit. With the new unit, same thing, listenable volume levels are between 3 - 5:30 o’clock. I guess my first unit was not defective, maybe it has more to do my headphone impedance than the amplifier.

I also wanted to mention, for those people who own the Drop THX 789, I also bought Drop THX 789 and the Singxer Amplifier is definitely a worthwhile upgrade from the Drop THX 789.
My opinion with the THX 789, it had a crunchy shadowy sound in the mids and upper range. The Singxer doesn’t have that extra sound. Just wanted to point that out in case anyone was on the fence about it.


----------



## AltCtrl (Oct 25, 2021)

IZONE said:


> Great comparison MiddleSky! I have two of the three sitting at home along with the OG Jot
> 
> I'm still trying to form more solid impressions before doing a mini comparison for folks on this thread but I do agree with you in general. Just when I thought I had some firm impressions burn-in keeps changing the sound plus juggling two DACs, the Qutest and Bifrost 2, between them has been a lot of fun but also delaying comparison impressions. I went through a phase when I thought that A90 was too sterile, but I've moved beyond that now with a lot of burn-in, when it's toasty hot it sounds crazy transparent/wide-spectrum top to bottom without being sterile - it's a great amp just need to burn-in and also clean up the power supply. Having said that, the Singxer seems to be pulling ahead. My thoughts are to keep both and pair one with the Qutest and the other with the Bifrost 2. I will update you all once I get more solid impressions as the SA-1 only has about a 100 hours right now. OG Jot is not being used much lately but it was a champ for many years in the past and has its own thing


Would love your comparisons as I have a 2Qute and a THX 887. I also just ordered a Jot 2. I was pretty close to ordering a Singxer SA-1 but thought the THX 887 might be to similar in sound. I am kinda worried about losing some stoundstage with the Jot 2 but will appreciate the bass punch as long as its not muddy. Will post impressions when I get the Jot 2.


----------



## IZONE (Oct 27, 2021)

AltCtrl said:


> Would love your comparisons as I have a 2Qute and a THX 887. I also just ordered a Jot 2. I was pretty close to ordering a Singxer SA-1 but thought the THX 887 might be to similar in sound. I am kinda worried about losing some stoundstage with the Jot 2 but will appreciate the bass punch as long as its not muddy. Will post impressions when I get the Jot 2.


Sorry about the late reply. I've been doing a lot of listening swapping back and forth with the A90/SA-1 and Bifrost 2/Qutest. What I can say for now is that Qutest has better synergy with the SA-1 and Bifrost 2 has the the better synergy with A90. SA-1 is fantastic and I think most people would consider it a better amp than the A90, but IMO the A90 is also a champ it sometimes just brings that clean transparency like there is nothing between me and the DAC that's like a breath of fresh air. The SA-1 sounds expensive/refined with wider soundstage/three-dimensionality and also has good transparency/clarity but I sometimes feel like the A90 is more transparent. A90 is kind of mid forward/upfront with an engaging presentation while the SA-1 sounds thinner/recessed in the mids due to the large sound stage kind of like an Utopia vs. HD800S but sounds wide and impressive/3D. One thing that the SA-1 excels at is that it really grabs planars by the balls and brings about extraordinary control in the bass and highs... gets rid of that last 1% flabbyness/looseness. Arya V3 is a crazy good match for the SA-1. I'm nearly at 200 hours with the SA-1 and I still keep hearing improvements and changes so these are my initial thoughts. I've also only tried 4 out of my 14 headphones so I need to rotate in more headphones to get a better sense of what this can do. I'll update everyone once I get a better understanding.


----------



## Muataz

JaquesGelee said:


> Actually i feed my SA-1 in Low-Gain with Ares II via XLR. Music came from a MacBook via Foobar.
> 
> *I already asked for help a few weeks ago.
> 
> ...


turn the volume to max. I'm sure you will find what you need at 5pm


----------



## orangecrescent

I feed Topping D70s xlr into the SA-1, from PC I use foobar2000.  Headphone is Arya.  I found that in low gain, I need the volume mostly at 3 o'clock position and sometimes need to go to 5.  I am wondering is that absolutely fine or if I should set it to high gain.  At low gain and with the volume knob turned to the max will it have any adverse effect on the head room and/or dynamic range?  I'd prefer low gain setting if possible.  Thanks for your advice in advance.


----------



## Muataz

orangecrescent said:


> I feed Topping D70s xlr into the SA-1, from PC I use foobar2000.  Headphone is Arya.  I found that in low gain, I need the volume mostly at 3 o'clock position and sometimes need to go to 5.  I am wondering is that absolutely fine or if I should set it to high gain.  At low gain and with the volume knob turned to the max will it have any adverse effect on the head room and/or dynamic range?  I'd prefer low gain setting if possible.  Thanks for your advice in advance.


100% fine and this is better than high gain. Nothing better than 0 gain 😎 with high voltage from the DAC


----------



## yaps66

orangecrescent said:


> I feed Topping D70s xlr into the SA-1, from PC I use foobar2000.  Headphone is Arya.  I found that in low gain, I need the volume mostly at 3 o'clock position and sometimes need to go to 5.  I am wondering is that absolutely fine or if I should set it to high gain.  At low gain and with the volume knob turned to the max will it have any adverse effect on the head room and/or dynamic range?  I'd prefer low gain setting if possible.  Thanks for your advice in advance.


Sounds like a killer combination! How do you like the D70s paired with the SA-1?


----------



## orangecrescent

Ok then I'll keep it at low gain. Thanks Muataz.

I bought the D70s for its higher output level for the SA-1.  I have nothing to complain about the sound quality at all.  Indeed, this combination produced a slightly clearer (slight but noticeable if I look for it) sound than my M15.  Sound stage is expansive and natural.  It also tamed the arya's high frequency and made it less offensive on certain tracks.  One thing I found surprising is that sometimes I can actually hear a difference when selecting different low pass filter on the D70s, as I can never tell on the M15.

Since the SA-1 is my only amp I have no idea how it compares to the others. However, I simply do not find any issues that make me want to try something else.


----------



## yaps66

orangecrescent said:


> Ok then I'll keep it at low gain. Thanks Muataz.
> 
> I bought the D70s for its higher output level for the SA-1.  I have nothing to complain about the sound quality at all.  Indeed, this combination produced a slightly clearer (slight but noticeable if I look for it) sound than my M15.  Sound stage is expansive and natural.  It also tamed the arya's high frequency and made it less offensive on certain tracks.  One thing I found surprising is that sometimes I can actually hear a difference when selecting different low pass filter on the D70s, as I can never tell on the M15.
> 
> Since the SA-1 is my only amp I have no idea how it compares to the others. However, I simply do not find any issues that make me want to try something else.


That's interesting about the effect of the filters on the D70s. I will have to try that out myself.


----------



## orangecrescent

yaps66 said:


> That's interesting about the effect of the filters on the D70s. I will have to try that out myself.


The keyword is "sometimes".  It totally depends on the track I am listening to.  But in any case the difference is very very minor.  For me it's more of playing with it rather than seriously adjusting certain characteristics.


----------



## Mansinthe86

orangecrescent said:


> Since the SA-1 is my only amp I have no idea how it compares to the others. However, I simply do not find any issues that make me want to try something else.



I feel exactly the same about the Singxer. I can't imagine another amp could possibly be better (without spending a lot more money)

I wish it would be that easy with DACs.


----------



## David222

Mansinthe86 said:


> I feel exactly the same about the Singxer. I can't imagine another amp could possibly be better (without spending a lot more money)
> 
> I wish it would be that easy with DACs.



Your comment above (_can't imagine another amp could be better_)...caught my eye...I just wanted to respectfully drop you a note and possibly persuade, or maybe even save you from a lifelong fait of listening solely to your Singxer 

Again, no disrespect to Singxer/value, but you may want to consider in the future...

SS:
RebelAmp
FluxLabs 
Burson 

Tubed: 
BHC
Hagerman
Valhalla


----------



## Mansinthe86

David222 said:


> Your comment above (_can't imagine another amp could be better_)...caught my eye...I just wanted to respectfully drop you a note and possibly persuade, or maybe even save you from a lifelong fait of listening solely to your Singxer
> 
> Again, no disrespect to Singxer/value, but you may want to consider in the future...
> 
> ...




Thanks for the feedback. But I will probably never get a tube amp. Might as well listen to vinyl 😅

US based amps are out of question for me as well. 

But burson audio might be something for a second setup in the future. But the ones I'm interested in are 2-3 times the price of the Singxer.


----------



## Friskyseal

Something to consider is that while sound is the primary consideration, everything matters when choosing an amp. If I'm going to spend this kind of money on a product that sits on my desk and I look at and use every single day, I have to love its look and feel. The Singxer is the perfect form factor for me; it sits perfectly on my desk, goes with the aesthetic of my setup, is a joy to use, and sounds amazing. Something like the Burson, even if it sounds way better, doesn't appeal to me at all with it's bright silver industrial design. The Rebel amp is uh, green? Yeah, no thanks. Doesn't matter how it sounds if I can't stand to look at it.


----------



## quawn0418

Hey, anyone care to share their preferences when high and low gain are concerned, after spending months with the SA-1 I prefer the sound quality of low gain, I can recall someone saying that it may be true class A on low gain and class AB when on high gain, is it just me? Because I’m pretty convinced that the sound is better in low gain at this point.


----------



## Thetaburn

Spent about a week with the Singxer amp (about 50 hours). I did not like it in the beginning as this amp or my mind needs burn in.
My perferrred source chain currently is - PC (Tidal streaming to Jriver media player (ASIO, DSP output encoded in 8xDSD) - Ares 2 (OS slow filter) - Singxer (low gain, XLR balanced, volume around 9pm to 11pm) - Arya v3 - XLR silver plated cable (ordered a pure 16core copper cable as well as an 8 core silver cable to see if the sound characteristics changes).

Different source chain configuration changes the sound characteristics. 
I did not like use the SE output with this amp using the stock SE cables with the Arya V3. After market Balanced cables is better (separation, clarity, tonality and liveliness).
Tidal on its own wasn't that good. I had to use Jriver media player to stream Tidal using DSP 8xdsd (sounds much better and analog). 
Tried high gain - didnt like it. The music was pushed forward and lacked separation.

The whole source chain with the Singxer sounds fantastic. Took me awhile to tweak the source chain as any changes changes the sound completely.


----------



## orangecrescent

quawn0418 said:


> Hey, anyone care to share their preferences when high and low gain are concerned, after spending months with the SA-1 I prefer the sound quality of low gain, I can recall someone saying that it may be true class A on low gain and class AB when on high gain, is it just me? Because I’m pretty convinced that the sound is better in low gain at this point.


People said it switches to class AB when pass 2 or 3'o clock position on high gain. Otherwise class A.  For me personally the difference between low and high gain is just the volume.  Preferred low gain mainly to protect against accidental max volume that may damage my ear and the headphone.


----------



## Nitrium

orangecrescent said:


> People said it switches to class AB when pass 2 or 3'o clock position on high gain. Otherwise class A.  For me personally the difference between low and high gain is just the volume.  Preferred low gain mainly to protect against accidental max volume that may damage my ear and the headphone.


Yeah same here.


----------



## kion

quawn0418 said:


> Hey, anyone care to share their preferences when high and low gain are concerned, after spending months with the SA-1 I prefer the sound quality of low gain, I can recall someone saying that it may be true class A on low gain and class AB when on high gain, is it just me? Because I’m pretty convinced that the sound is better in low gain at this point.


Apparently pure class A below 30ma according to the manufacturer (user singxer in the Chinese forum)

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...view-balanced-headphone-amp.23365/post-780604


----------



## Nitrium

Does anybody here see a huge difference between Low-Z and High-Z? I swear there's minimal, if any, difference to it when using my HD800s (I was expecting to be a major difference)


----------



## Friskyseal

Nitrium said:


> Does anybody here see a huge difference between Low-Z and High-Z? I swear there's minimal, if any, difference to it when using my HD800s (I was expecting to be a major difference)



It's very subtle. High Z seems to take away some bass punch, that's all. I leave it on low.


----------



## Pigeon X

Nitrium said:


> Does anybody here see a huge difference between Low-Z and High-Z? I swear there's minimal, if any, difference to it when using my HD800s (I was expecting to be a major difference)


I find it makes a pretty big difference in general. With the hd8xx there is only a minimal difference, but it swings a lot with each headphone. The focal clears sound very different on high vs low z. In general the stage size improves and the upper mids mellow out in high z. Low z has a little more impact and closeness. I tend to use high z because I like the less intense presentation. But I flip back and forth a lot.


----------



## TheRealDz

It makes no difference on my Focal Elegia.  But on my DCA Ether CX, lowZ setting is noticeably louder.


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno

Very cool to see a reviewer do the mod and explain everything in thorough detail.


----------



## fixedfreak (Nov 7, 2021)

I would like to ask which DAC you would buy with my equipment. I plan to order the Singxer SA-1 in the next days and add a new DAC to set up a second system / upgrade from my existing one.

At the moment I am using the Sabaj D5 with Moode on  a RaPi3 as a source for my two Focals (Clear and Celestee). Both a connected balanced -  Clear with original cable and the Celestee with a Beyerdynamic XLR cable.

Now I am not sure which DAC would be the best partner for the Singxer SA-1 to drive the Focals.

At the moment I am I between the Gustard x16 and the Ares II. R2R might be a good idea to smooth the Focals a little bit. Sometimes both HP are a little bit metallic sounding with the D5 with some mediocre recordings.

The X26pro is too expensive atm. Bifrost is not avaliable in Europe at the moment.

Looking forward to hear your suggestions/opinions.


----------



## Ohhellyea

fixedfreak said:


> I would like to ask which DAC you would buy with my equipment. I plan to order the Singxer SA-1 in the next days and add a new DAC to set up a second system / upgrade from my existing one.
> 
> At the moment I am using the Sabaj D5 with Moode on  a RaPi3 as a source for my two Focals (Clear and Celestee). Both a connected balanced -  Clear with original cable and the Celestee with a Beyerdynamic XLR cable.
> 
> ...


I use a Khadas Tone 2 Pro with my Clears, it is absolutely fantastic.


----------



## TheRealDz

fixedfreak said:


> I would like to ask which DAC you would buy with my equipment. I plan to order the Singxer SA-1 in the next days and add a new DAC to set up a second system / upgrade from my existing one.
> 
> At the moment I am using the Sabaj D5 with Moode on  a RaPi3 as a source for my two Focals (Clear and Celestee). Both a connected balanced -  Clear with original cable and the Celestee with a Beyerdynamic XLR cable.
> 
> ...


I am running my Focal Elegia/DCA CX balanced from my SA-1.  I have the Ares 2 DAC and it does smooth things out.  But the Ares was just the beginning - I know that I am late to the party, but I am really enjoying the difference that R2R brings. 

I've really gone deep down the rabbit hole and have now purchased a half dozen different different cheap Chinese multibit DACs from eBay/Aliexpress.  After bypassing the output capacitors on each, they sound surprisingly close to the Ares at nearly 1/20 the cost. (Ironically I can bypass the DAC output capacitors because I DIDN'T do the SA-1 capacitor mod). 

As much as I am impressed by the Ares, I could happily live with these TDA1543/1387 DACs.  They bring far more musicality and overall enjoyment than my previous Chord Mojo/Hugo, SMSL SU-8v2, Dragonfly Red, etc.


----------



## fixedfreak (Nov 7, 2021)

TheRealDz said:


> As much as I am impressed by the Ares, I could happily live with these TDA1543/1387 DACs.  They bring far more musicality and overall enjoyment than my previous Chord Mojo/Hugo, SMSL SU-8v2, Dragonfly Red, etc.



Can you say which one of the 1543/1387 DAC would be the best choice and the nearest to the ares in terms of Sq? For balanced use.

Do you have a Ali link? 11.11 is near.


----------



## spruce (Nov 14, 2021)

First impressions with the SA-1 and Ares II is that my LCD 2 Classic match well. My LCD2C also have felt pads with some black Dan Clark dampening pads. I really like the Elex on this chain as well, otherwise the Elex is too bright for me on everything else I’ve tried.

I also own the D90 and as much as I love it’s quickness, clarity and incisiveness the Ares II is easily my favorite of the two due to its natural sound presentation. The Ares II also retains all the details and clarity I need!


----------



## aroldan

Another vote for Ares II as DAC


----------



## Thetaburn

Another vote for the Singxer with Ares 2 (OS mode with slow filter). The Ares 2 give a good amount of width to the soundstage.


----------



## Tazyn

I was puzzled by the filtration of the system's power supply. The assembled filters on aliexpress turned out to be beautiful in appearance, but with very cheap and simple filters. After searching, I came across separate filtration boards link
I made a homemade filter out of an improvised box for the board. So far, the impressions are positive. I can recommend it.


----------



## NPWS

orangecrescent said:


> I feed Topping D70s xlr into the SA-1, from PC I use foobar2000.  Headphone is Arya.  I found that in low gain, I need the volume mostly at 3 o'clock position and sometimes need to go to 5.  I am wondering is that absolutely fine or if I should set it to high gain.  At low gain and with the volume knob turned to the max will it have any adverse effect on the head room and/or dynamic range?  I'd prefer low gain setting if possible.  Thanks for your advice in advance.


hi, I have D90SE pairing with Singxer SA-1, I've tried several times to listen between Line out Type : RCA out only, XLR only and RCA+XLR using USB from my PC using foobar, turnout that RCA only have bigger power , more clear and everything than XLR only or RCA+XLR, using XLR it should have more power yes?
can you please test with your d70s?
thanks


----------



## IZONE

fixedfreak said:


> I would like to ask which DAC you would buy with my equipment. I plan to order the Singxer SA-1 in the next days and add a new DAC to set up a second system / upgrade from my existing one.
> 
> At the moment I am using the Sabaj D5 with Moode on  a RaPi3 as a source for my two Focals (Clear and Celestee). Both a connected balanced -  Clear with original cable and the Celestee with a Beyerdynamic XLR cable.
> 
> ...


I recommend the Chord Qutest. Amazing combo with the SA-1. Just avoid Bifrost 2 as it does not seem to have good synergy. The BF2 has better synergy with the A90 in my experience


----------



## BuckAcog

TheRealDz said:


> I am running my Focal Elegia/DCA CX balanced from my SA-1.  I have the Ares 2 DAC and it does smooth things out.  But the Ares was just the beginning - I know that I am late to the party, but I am really enjoying the difference that R2R brings.
> 
> I've really gone deep down the rabbit hole and have now purchased a half dozen different different cheap Chinese multibit DACs from eBay/Aliexpress.  After bypassing the output capacitors on each, they sound surprisingly close to the Ares at nearly 1/20 the cost. (Ironically I can bypass the DAC output capacitors because I DIDN'T do the SA-1 capacitor mod).
> 
> As much as I am impressed by the Ares, I could happily live with these TDA1543/1387 DACs.  They bring far more musicality and overall enjoyment than my previous Chord Mojo/Hugo, SMSL SU-8v2, Dragonfly Red, etc.


Could you share and elaborate further on your experiences with bypassing the cheap r2r DACs? How did u do it and what difference did it make?


----------



## yaps66

NPWS said:


> hi, I have D90SE pairing with Singxer SA-1, I've tried several times to listen between Line out Type : RCA out only, XLR only and RCA+XLR using USB from my PC using foobar, turnout that RCA only have bigger power , more clear and everything than XLR only or RCA+XLR, using XLR it should have more power yes?
> can you please test with your d70s?
> thanks


I have the D70S pairing with Singxer SA-1 and have tried as requested: RCA out only, XLR out only and both RCA+XLR out from D70S to Singxer SA-1.  I am connecting from PC using Roon. I do not see any difference in power or clarity using either connection.


----------



## Muataz

yaps66 said:


> I have the D70S pairing with Singxer SA-1 and have tried as requested: RCA out only, XLR out only and both RCA+XLR out from D70S to Singxer SA-1.  I am connecting from PC using Roon. I do not see any difference in power or clarity using either connection.


If the RCA give more voltage than 2.5v like chord qutest does at 3v then it will sound louder than 5v XLR.


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno

IZONE said:


> I recommend the Chord Qutest. Amazing combo with the SA-1. Just avoid Bifrost 2 as it does not seem to have good synergy. The BF2 has better synergy with the A90 in my experience


Uh oh, have a BF2 on the way. Is it overly warm paired with the SA-1?


----------



## TheRealDz

fixedfreak said:


> Can you say which one of the 1543/1387 DAC would be the best choice and the nearest to the ares in terms of Sq? For balanced use.
> 
> Do you have a Ali link? 11.11 is near.


None of the ones I purchased are balanced, which is not surprising at this price point.  

This one sounds closest to the Ares;  L1387A.  The downsides are that you need a 15v power supply, and the unit runs HOT.  Supposedly the headphone amp in it is class A, which is hottest with no load - which was the majority of the time, since I use it mainly as a DAC.  The case is way too small for its thermal output, and even drilling holes + adding heat sinks doesn't solve the problem.  

Note that the headphone amp is quite good though.  I will probably take it to work for desktop duty when I return to the office. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/L1387A-8X-...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


This is one I recommend though:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HIFI-USB-8...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

It is a bit softer sounding than the Ares, but highly enjoyable.  It also has a decent sounding headphone amp, but it is not as powerful.  You can power it off of the USB connection, but I recommend an outboard linear power supply for greater clarity.


----------



## TheRealDz

BuckAcog said:


> Could you share and elaborate further on your experiences with bypassing the cheap r2r DACs? How did u do it and what difference did it make?


Bypassing the capacitors is as simple as flipping the circuit board over, finding the positive and negative leads of the output capacitors (generally right next to the RCA jacks), then soldering a small ~1cm length of wire between the two leads. 

Doing so brought much more transparency to the sound - which really balanced out the strengths of the DACs.  Ie, they are mellow sounding, and the added clarity keeps them from sounding mushy. 

A no brainer, so long as your amp still has input capacitors - ie, you can't do the capacitor mod that some folks have done to their SA-1.


----------



## dstarr3

Quick question. Do the 4.4mm balanced output and the XLR balanced output share the same circuitry? The 3.5mm output sounds different because it's of course single-ended and uses differently circuitry. Is there any difference between the two balanced outputs or are they identical?


----------



## ra990

dstarr3 said:


> Quick question. Do the 4.4mm balanced output and the XLR balanced output share the same circuitry? The 3.5mm output sounds different because it's of course single-ended and uses differently circuitry. Is there any difference between the two balanced outputs or are they identical?


Yes, just different connections but the same balanced outputs.


----------



## AltCtrl

IZONE said:


> Sorry about the late reply. I've been doing a lot of listening swapping back and forth with the A90/SA-1 and Bifrost 2/Qutest. What I can say for now is that Qutest has better synergy with the SA-1 and Bifrost 2 has the the better synergy with A90. SA-1 is fantastic and I think most people would consider it a better amp than the A90, but IMO the A90 is also a champ it sometimes just brings that clean transparency like there is nothing between me and the DAC that's like a breath of fresh air. The SA-1 sounds expensive/refined with wider soundstage/three-dimensionality and also has good transparency/clarity but I sometimes feel like the A90 is more transparent. A90 is kind of mid forward/upfront with an engaging presentation while the SA-1 sounds thinner/recessed in the mids due to the large sound stage kind of like an Utopia vs. HD800S but sounds wide and impressive/3D. One thing that the SA-1 excels at is that it really grabs planars by the balls and brings about extraordinary control in the bass and highs... gets rid of that last 1% flabbyness/looseness. Arya V3 is a crazy good match for the SA-1. I'm nearly at 200 hours with the SA-1 and I still keep hearing improvements and changes so these are my initial thoughts. I've also only tried 4 out of my 14 headphones so I need to rotate in more headphones to get a better sense of what this can do. I'll update everyone once I get a better understanding.


Nice wonder how much of a upgrade the Qutest is over the 2Qute.

I just got my Jot2 very impressed with it especially for the music I listen to. I was worried the bass would be muddy/boomy but I really like it it’s nice and distinct.


----------



## NPWS

yaps66 said:


> I have the D70S pairing with Singxer SA-1 and have tried as requested: RCA out only, XLR out only and both RCA+XLR out from D70S to Singxer SA-1.  I am connecting from PC using Roon. I do not see any difference in power or clarity using either connection.


hhhmmm, I start wondering about topping's QC. maybe I'll ask my friend who has d90se or d70s to test it later.
thanks for your time


----------



## yaps66

NPWS said:


> hhhmmm, I start wondering about topping's QC. maybe I'll ask my friend who has d90se or d70s to test it later.
> thanks for your time


Then again, you sometimes can't trust my 55 year old ears!


----------



## IZONE (Nov 12, 2021)

AltCtrl said:


> Nice wonder how much of a upgrade the Qutest is over the 2Qute.
> 
> I just got my Jot2 very impressed with it especially for the music I listen to. I was worried the bass would be muddy/boomy but I really like it it’s nice and distinct.


I've never owned the 2Qute but owned the Mojo for many years. The upgrade in sound by the Qutest was noticeable and significant IMHO. I don't think you'll be disappointed. I actually didn't "get" the Chord sound until getting the Qutest and now I'm a big fan thinking about moving up to Dave / M-Scaler early next year

If you watch Rob's lectures on YT, I think the fact that Qutest went to ten element pulse array from 4 elements of the original Hugo/2Qute + doubling the taps should yield some dramatic results (theoretically of course)


----------



## Pigeon X

On high gain my sa1 is still listenable at full volume using my hd8xx. If I plug into the xduoo mt602  it gets brutally loud at like 2 oclock. This is a 1.3 watt amp. Why is the sa1 so much quieter?  Am I missing something?


----------



## Mansinthe86

Pigeon X said:


> On high gain my sa1 is still listenable at full volume using my hd8xx. If I plug into the xduoo mt602  it gets brutally loud at like 2 oclock. This is a 1.3 watt amp. Why is the sa1 so much quieter?  Am I missing something?



I'm not really knowledgeable about this stuff but could it have to do with the output voltage of your DAC?


----------



## equalspeace (Nov 21, 2021)

Pigeon X said:


> On high gain my sa1 is still listenable at full volume using my hd8xx. If I plug into the xduoo mt602  it gets brutally loud at like 2 oclock. This is a 1.3 watt amp. Why is the sa1 so much quieter?  Am I missing something?



It is a quiet amp. You're not missing anything. I think they designed it w the intention people could get full sound at lower volumes. It does a lot of things right, but for me it's a touch too warm, soft and doesn't give me as much headroom as I'd like. I still have mine but it's out of the rotation currently. Trying to decide what to do w it. I honestly prefer my Atom over it


----------



## dstarr3

I don't know, that doesn't sound right. I have an AKG Sextett, which is notoriously hard to drive. 600 ohms, 95db sensitivity. On my Singxer, balanced output, high gain, Low-Z, very demanding headphones, they're unsafely loud after about 1 o'clock

There are four switches on the bottom and you have to move them all in the same direction to select high vs. low gain. Do you have all four switches on the same direction, whichever direction it is?


----------



## Nitrium

Pigeon X said:


> On high gain my sa1 is still listenable at full volume using my hd8xx. If I plug into the xduoo mt602  it gets brutally loud at like 2 oclock. This is a 1.3 watt amp. Why is the sa1 so much quieter?  Am I missing something?


Is the Gustard the one hooked up to it? Is it in pass-through mode?

FYI, I have an RME ADI2 connected to my Singxer, and my HD800S sounds a bit quiet - I need to turn it up to 3 o'clock (in Low gain) to get it to a loud enough level.


----------



## Celty

Odd, I get way more volume than I would ever listen to with both the HD6XX and ZMF Auteur. Lots of headroom for me. That is with the SMSL SU-8 which I believe puts out 4 volts. At some point when I upgrade the DAC I will probably go with a 5 volt model just for the heck of it, but I am very happy with the SA-1.


----------



## Nitrium

I have a question for the SA-1 owners here: are you looking into upgrading? If so, what to? Burson? GSX Mini? Phonitor?

Personally, I feel like I reached a very good point with this amp, and I feel like I would have to shell out 2 grand or more to get a very minor upgrade. What do you all say?


----------



## hottyson (Nov 21, 2021)

Nitrium said:


> I have a question for the SA-1 owners here: are you looking into upgrading? If so, what to? Burson? GSX Mini? Phonitor?
> 
> Personally, I feel like I reached a very good point with this amp, and I feel like I would have to shell out 2 grand or more to get a very minor upgrade. What do you all say?


I upgraded to the Questyle CMA Twelve. I still own my Singxer SA-1 but is sitting on the shelf. I still use my RebelAmp, my Schiit Jotunheim 2, and my Lyr 3 quiet regularly. If you have a good pairing with your headphones, the SA-1 is excellent.


----------



## Pigeon X

dstarr3 said:


> I don't know, that doesn't sound right. I have an AKG Sextett, which is notoriously hard to drive. 600 ohms, 95db sensitivity. On my Singxer, balanced output, high gain, Low-Z, very demanding headphones, they're unsafely loud after about 1 o'clock
> 
> There are four switches on the bottom and you have to move them all in the same direction to select high vs. low gain. Do you have all four switches on the same direction, whichever direction it is?


Yep, all in high gain position.




Nitrium said:


> Is the Gustard the one hooked up to it? Is it in pass-through mode?
> 
> FYI, I have an RME ADI2 connected to my Singxer, and my HD800S sounds a bit quiet - I need to turn it up to 3 o'clock (in Low gain) to get it to a loud enough level.


Yes, connected to the Gustard x16. What is pass-through mode?


----------



## etroze86

Pigeon X said:


> Yep, all in high gain position.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, connected to the Gustard x16. What is pass-through mode?


Is your volume knob tight? I had to tighten the set screw on mine to achieve full volume potential. I also when with a topping D90 balanced after I found out that my jds EL2 dac wasn't outputting enough voltage.


----------



## Nitrium

hottyson said:


> I upgraded to the Questyle CMA Twelve. I still own my Singxer SA-1 but is sitting on the shelf. I still use my RebelAmp, my Schiit Jotunheim 2, and my Lyr 3 quiet regularly. If you have a good pairing with your headphones, the SA-1 is excellent.


Oh, nice. How do you like the RebelAmp compared to the others?


----------



## hottyson

Nitrium said:


> Oh, nice. How do you like the RebelAmp compared to the others?


The RebelAmp is SMOOTH! The sound it produces is rich across the entire frequency spectrum. It is underpriced for what it accomplishes. For $500 you are getting $800 or $900 worth of amplifier.
.
The Schiit Jotunheim 2 is powerful and open sounding due to the accentuated highs. Great amp for $400 but I prefer the smooth, less detailed, rich presentation of the RebelAmp. If one has hard to drive planar magnetic headphones and no money, this is the amp to get if the RebelAmp lack of detail bothers them.
.
The Singxer SA-1 is no match for the RebelAmp with most headphones. It can pair it with my Monoprice M1570 better than the RebelAmp and the Jotunheim 2. It has a great feature set with the xlr and rca preamp outputs which is handy. 
.
I did not like my Lyr 3 at first but I am just starting to roll some tubes lately and it is not bad after all. More solid state than tube amp. I still have lots of listening to do with the Lyr 3.
.
The Questyle outclasses all except for the Lyr 3 which may once I have listened to it more. But still an unknown at this time.


----------



## BuckAcog

hottyson said:


> The RebelAmp is SMOOTH! The sound it produces is rich across the entire frequency spectrum. It is underpriced for what it accomplishes. For $500 you are getting $800 or $900 worth of amplifier.
> .
> The Schiit Jotunheim 2 is powerful and open sounding due to the accentuated highs. Great amp for $400 but I prefer the smooth, less detailed, rich presentation of the RebelAmp. If one has hard to drive planar magnetic headphones and no money, this is the amp to get if the RebelAmp lack of detail bothers them.
> .
> ...


Have you tried he6se v2 and arya on sa 1 vs rebelamp? If yes, how do they compare? And what's the difference in depth and imaging between the 2 amps?


----------



## Mansinthe86

Nitrium said:


> I have a question for the SA-1 owners here: are you looking into upgrading? If so, what to? Burson? GSX Mini? Phonitor?
> 
> Personally, I feel like I reached a very good point with this amp, and I feel like I would have to shell out 2 grand or more to get a very minor upgrade. What do you all say?



Nope. Not going to upgrade. I have everything on low gain and the volume knob stays most of the time at 2pm. 

If I where ever go get a second amp it would be for another Setup (bedroom for example).

In that case I would most likely get a Burson amp.


----------



## hottyson

BuckAcog said:


> Have you tried he6se v2 and arya on sa 1 vs rebelamp? If yes, how do they compare? And what's the difference in depth and imaging between the 2 amps?


I don't own HifiMan Arya but I do own HifiMan HE6se V2.
.
Hifiman HE6se V2 is fantastic on the RebelAmp. It scales well with better amps. However with the Singxer SA-1 the HE6se V2 was muffled, had a stifled soundstage, and seemed less dynamic compared to when paired with the RebelAmp. This is comparative. I am sure that some are content pairing the SA-1 with the HE6se V2. However if one has not yet purchased the SA-1 and intends purchase a better match in the same price range for the HE6se V2, then the RebelAmp, or Schiit Jotunheim 1 or 2 might be a better choice. RebelAmp is refined, smoother, less detailed. Schiit Jotunheim 2 is intense treble focused. Jotunheim 1 is known for glaring highs but it is not too much of an issue on the HE6se V2. So, if one is broke and desperate, they might pick up a used Jotunheim 1. But that would also mean getting old tired equipment that after years of operating at high temperatures might have problems. Perhaps it would be wise to just use that money towards the purchase of  Jotunheim 2 or RebelAmp. For my ears the RebelAmp is the real winner.


----------



## IZONE

Dear confused SA-1 owners. The reason we have so much range in the volume knob is that even on high gain there is only 11db gain. Other amps like the A90 or Schiit Jot2 amps have more of gain (15.5db, 18db), but do not confuse gain for power. Voltage is not current and current is not voltage (although linked at the hip). SA-1 is a powerful amp because it has lots of current on tap, do not be afraid to turn the knob to near max to get the volume you want. If you are still not getting enough gain please increase the gain of your source. Normally sources will be 2V for single or 4V for balanced but you can increase it as needed on some DACs like Chord products or if you just want to go super loud just get the A90  The only headphone in my collection where I'm near the max are Susvaras for SA-1, for the others it's near 12 to 2pm depending on the music's dynamic range


----------



## IZONE

Nitrium said:


> I have a question for the SA-1 owners here: are you looking into upgrading? If so, what to? Burson? GSX Mini? Phonitor?
> 
> Personally, I feel like I reached a very good point with this amp, and I feel like I would have to shell out 2 grand or more to get a very minor upgrade. What do you all say?


That's kind of how I feel. I've been also looking at the GS-X mini, and Soloist GT, Schiit Rag2, Master 9, etc. Other than the Mini they take up a lot more desk space and not sure how much of an upgrade they are? I'm sure they are better at the end of the day but SA-1 is also a really good sweet spot and the perfect size IMHO


----------



## alvinmate

IZONE said:


> Dear confused SA-1 owners. The reason we have so much range in the volume knob is that even on high gain there is only 11db gain. Other amps like the A90 or Schiit Jot2 amps have more of gain (15.5db, 18db), but do not confuse gain for power. Voltage is not current and current is not voltage (although linked at the hip). SA-1 is a powerful amp because it has lots of current on tap, do not be afraid to turn the knob to near max to get the volume you want. If you are still not getting enough gain please increase the gain of your source. Normally sources will be 2V for single or 4V for balanced but you can increase it as needed on some DACs like Chord products or if you just want to go super loud just get the A90  The only headphone in my collection where I'm near the max are Susvaras for SA-1, for the others it's near 12 to 2pm depending on the music's dynamic range


As described this is exactly how my set-up is configured. My source(Cambridge 851N) is on max setting where as amp is on low gain. It easily drives my ZMF VO effortlessly and I would add that I cannot go past 11pm as it gets really loud beyond that point. Looks like different people have different experiences. Im suspecting good source is the key to achieve the best synergy with SA-1.  So far I'm enjoying it and for the price this is a really great amp.


----------



## dstarr3 (Nov 22, 2021)

I suppose just for the sake of clarity I should point out that I'm feeding my SA-1 with my Schiit Modius running balanced, which according to the specs on Schiit's website means I'm feeding my SA-1 a 4V source signal. Maybe this has something to do with the success I'm having that others aren't. It might be that to get the most out of the SA-1 you need to give it a balanced source and use the balanced output whenever possible.

Because yeah, I've got absolute miles of headroom on my amp no matter what headphone I hook up to it. I don't have an HD800 or Susvara handy to test, but I at least know my AKG Sextett is an extremely hungry headphone and, after balanced-modding my Sextett, my SA-1 powers it effortlessly.


----------



## orangecrescent

Nitrium said:


> I have a question for the SA-1 owners here: are you looking into upgrading? If so, what to? Burson? GSX Mini? Phonitor?
> 
> Personally, I feel like I reached a very good point with this amp, and I feel like I would have to shell out 2 grand or more to get a very minor upgrade. What do you all say?


Only if I am out of my mind and buy a susvara then I probably have to get another amp like the burson.  As sa-1 is my only amp other than daps I am not able to compare but I cannot find any faults with this unit.  I primarily use it to drive arya v2.


----------



## dstarr3 (Nov 22, 2021)

Nitrium said:


> I have a question for the SA-1 owners here: are you looking into upgrading? If so, what to? Burson? GSX Mini? Phonitor?
> 
> Personally, I feel like I reached a very good point with this amp, and I feel like I would have to shell out 2 grand or more to get a very minor upgrade. What do you all say?



I'm a bit torn, because I thought I made the right choice until I became aware of the RebelAmp. When I was amp shopping, it was between the Topping A90, Schiit Jotenheim, or the SA-1. Topping A90 is the most detailed of the three, but also the least musical. Very dry and analytical, not really my jam. The Jot is a bit more musical while still being quite detailed, but the top end can apparently be pretty sizzly at times and as someone with treble sensitivity, that turned me off. The SA-1 loses some detail but gains some warmth, some smoothness, and a lot more musicality, and that sounded right up my alley, so I picked it and have been very pleased.

Of course, now that I've recently been made aware of the RebelAmp, there's the possibility that would've been the better choice, but it's hard to say without owning both and A/B'ing the two. It sounds like the RebelAmp is the smoothest and most musical of the four mentioned, but is also the least detailed. I personally would prefer musicality over detail, but having both would be better, so maybe the SA-1 is the best compromise for me.

The thing about the RebelAmp is that I already have another super-smooth, super-musical, super-powerful amp on my shopping list: The Bottlehead Crack. And I think rather than buying a RebelAmp to possibly replace my SA-1, I'd rather buy a BHC to _complement _my SA-1.

The BHC and the Senn 6XX is an iconic pairing, and apparently the amp also pairs with the AKG Sextett very well, and I own and love both of these headphones, so I'm eventually getting a BHC on that basis, I've already made this decision, I just haven't made the purchase yet. And then owning that could possibly make the RebelAmp redundant, whereas the SA-1 would not be made redundant.

The primary motivation for me to get my SA-1 was to pair it with my T50 Argon, but the same day I ordered my SA-1, I sent my Argon in to have the balanced conversion done and it hasn't come back yet. I suspect SA-1 + Argon will be a tremendous pair, I can't wait to get it back. Since I'm getting the BHC sometime in the near future, I think the only reason I would end up buying a RebelAmp at this point is if I buy a Hifiman HE6se and find it underwhelming on my SA-1. Who knows when that'll happen, if ever.


----------



## Arniesb

dstarr3 said:


> I'm a bit torn, because I thought I made the right choice until I became aware of the RebelAmp. When I was amp shopping, it was between the Topping A90, Schiit Jotenheim, or the SA-1. Topping A90 is the most detailed of the three, but also the least musical. Very dry and analytical, not really my jam. The Jot is a bit more musical while still being quite detailed, but the top end can apparently be pretty sizzly at times and as someone with treble sensitivity, that turned me off. The SA-1 loses some detail but gains some warmth, some smoothness, and a lot more musicality, and that sounded right up my alley, so I picked it and have been very pleased.
> 
> Of course, now that I've recently been made aware of the RebelAmp, there's the possibility that would've been the better choice, but it's hard to say without owning both and A/B'ing the two. It sounds like the RebelAmp is the smoothest and most musical of the four mentioned, but is also the least detailed. I personally would prefer musicality over detail, but having both would be better, so maybe the SA-1 is the best compromise for me.
> 
> ...


Thing is most of the good headphones have very little bass and the more linear amp the more lack of bass foundation gonna be exposed. When you take HD800S and pair it with A90 it sound like tweeter with a very weak sub, but if you eq it sound very good. I think eq is essential with open back headphones...


----------



## hottyson

dstarr3 said:


> I'm a bit torn, because I thought I made the right choice until I became aware of the RebelAmp. When I was amp shopping, it was between the Topping A90, Schiit Jotenheim, or the SA-1. Topping A90 is the most detailed of the three, but also the least musical. Very dry and analytical, not really my jam. The Jot is a bit more musical while still being quite detailed, but the top end can apparently be pretty sizzly at times and as someone with treble sensitivity, that turned me off. The SA-1 loses some detail but gains some warmth, some smoothness, and a lot more musicality, and that sounded right up my alley, so I picked it and have been very pleased.
> 
> Of course, now that I've recently been made aware of the RebelAmp, there's the possibility that would've been the better choice, but it's hard to say without owning both and A/B'ing the two. It sounds like the RebelAmp is the smoothest and most musical of the four mentioned, but is also the least detailed. I personally would prefer musicality over detail, but having both would be better, so maybe the SA-1 is the best compromise for me.
> 
> ...


I think you are spot on with this. Even though I love my RebelAmp, I would take a tube amp over all of my solid state amps. The RebelAmp is the only solid state amp under a grand that comes close to a tube amp. In an ideal setup, one would own a good tube amp, and a good solid state amp that is technically adept. Then, all bases are covered. If I were forced with the choice  to give up my RebelAmp or tube amp, I would surrender the RebelAmp.


----------



## Mozbach

quawn0418 said:


> Said f it, did the mod, worth it? Yes...sucks that the warranty vanishes with it though...having a hard time placing the lid back on becuase the inside looks so damn pretty lol


Hows the pairing with Aryas?


----------



## dstarr3

That mod looks super easy and easily reversible. I'd be interested in learning more about it


----------



## dstarr3 (Nov 23, 2021)

By the way, does anybody else's SA-1 behave like this?

I'm not sure if this is one of those things where it's always been like this and I just recently noticed, or if this is new behavior, but the rear power switch on my amp is always flickering. Here's a video:



The video makes it look a little worse than it is, but not by a lot. Obvious in a dark room, less obvious in a light room. The amp sounds fine, no audio issues of any sort.

In the video, the front switch is in the off position, but it flickers like this whether the front switch is on or off, headphone or preamp mode, receiving a signal or not, other devices on the same UPS powered on or not, etc. If this rear switch is on, it flickers.

I noticed this for the first time a couple weeks ago, but again, I don't know if this is new behavior or I only just recently noticed it. And again, no audio issues or functionality issues at the moment. Just curious if this is normal.

Does anybody else's do this?


----------



## IZONE (Nov 23, 2021)

dstarr3 said:


> By the way, does anybody else's SA-1 behave like this?
> 
> I'm not sure if this is one of those things where it's always been like this and I just recently noticed, or if this is new behavior, but the rear power switch on my amp is always flickering. Here's a video:
> 
> ...



Mine doesn't do this, although I've unplugged my SA-1 for the last few days as I'm moving all my audio stuff to a different room, just bought new dedicated desk for all my audio junk. The flickering seems to be a problem with the power outlet/power lines to your house and not the amp IMHO as I experienced something like this at a different house with other electronics that would flicker. Are you using a bad power strip or power cable? You should try a different wall outlet in your house / different power strip / cable or try plugging in the SA-1 at a friend's house and see if it still flickers. This is purely my guess and in my experience only.

Also for the SA-1 volume. Guys if you read this thread there is mention that the single-ended input has more gain to compensate for the lower 2V input. I've used the SA-1 with both my Qutest (single-ended only) and Bifrost 2 (balanced XLR), they are each 2V and also 4V as standard. I get equal volume range for both sources so it doesn't matter if you use single-ended or balanced source. Also, low gain is really low. I'm near max with most of my headphones so I switched to high gain and never looked back. On most of my headphones I'm near 11am to 2pm depending on how loud the music was mastered. I'm near 4pm to max using the Susvaras. I do listen pretty loud but not as loud as some others on Head Fi LOL

Like I mentioned before if you want something that gets super loud super fast just get the A90 and be happy. I cannot go past 1pm to 2pm even using the Susvaras as it gets crazy loud and I'm afraid it will damage/blow the drivers  I know it's not great but the SA-1 running the Susvaras near max volume does sound great. It has all the great qualities of the SA-1 even near max volume IMHO / experience only. Having said that, if you are buying the SA-1 to primarily drive the Susvaras I would advise against it. The A90 does drive them better and I assume other amps will drive them even better. SA-1 is really wonderful with headphones like Arya, HD800S, LCD-X, Utopia, Empyrean, etc. etc., pretty much anything and everything other than the Susvara


----------



## alvinmate

IZONE said:


> Mine doesn't do this, although I've unplugged my SA-1 for the last few days as I'm moving all my audio stuff to a different room, just bought new dedicated desk for all my audio junk. The flickering seems to be a problem with the power outlet/power lines to your house and not the amp IMHO as I experienced something like this at a different house with other electronics that would flicker. Are you using a bad power strip or power cable? You should try a different wall outlet in your house / different power strip / cable or try plugging in the SA-1 at a friend's house and see if it still flickers. This is purely my guess and in my experience only.
> 
> Also for the SA-1 volume. Guys if you read this thread there is mention that the single-ended input has more gain to compensate for the lower 2V input. I've used the SA-1 with both my Qutest (single-ended only) and Bifrost 2 (balanced XLR), they are each 2V and also 4V as standard. I get equal volume range for both sources so it doesn't matter if you use single-ended or balanced source. Also, low gain is really low. I'm near max with most of my headphones so I switched to high gain and never looked back. On most of my headphones I'm near 11am to 2pm depending on how loud the music was mastered. I'm near 4pm to max using the Susvaras. I do listen pretty loud but not as loud as some others on Head Fi LOL
> 
> Like I mentioned before if you want something that gets super loud super fast just get the A90 and be happy. I cannot go past 1pm to 2pm even using the Susvaras as it gets crazy loud and I'm afraid it will damage/blow the drivers  I know it's not great but the SA-1 running the Susvaras near max volume does sound great. It has all the great qualities of the SA-1 even near max volume IMHO / experience only. Having said that, if you are buying the SA-1 to primarily drive the Susvaras I would advise against it. The A90 does drive them better and I assume other amps will drive them even better. SA-1 is really wonderful with headphones like Arya, HD800S, LCD-X, Utopia, Empyrean, etc. etc., pretty much anything and everything other than the Susvara


Just adding it does sound wonderful with ZMF headphones too🙂


----------



## Mozbach (Nov 24, 2021)

Deleted


----------



## Mozbach (Nov 23, 2021)

NascentAP said:


> Fed by Ares II via balanced, SA-1 is powerful enough, even for my HE6SE V2. With the Arya, it usually stays between 2-3pm on low gain.


Im planning to get one this black friday sale as my end game to pair with Ares2 and Arya. While i plan to run it balanced, wanted to know from you if you had any experience using the arya

1. Is there a performance drop with standard 2v dac input vs 4v bslanced input from ares2? Have you tried a single ended in and bal out config?

2. At 2-3 pm on low gain, how are the dynamics? While i suspect it would be audibly pretty loud, the Aryas 'perform' their best with more power, esp. wrt macro dynamics and impact. How did you find the bass punch/impact on the pairing - how would you describe from slam, texture, layering perspective?

3. Are u using it with high Z or low Z (not gain). Also do you listen loudly (past 90db) or hover in 80-85 db mostly?

4. Whats the headroom like past 3 pm..i guess it pushes all the way upto 5:30 pm.. Does it distort at very high volumes/maxed out? At what point wud u say it reaches loud listening thresholds (ie will go deaf if u listen at this level for more than a few minutes)

5. For pop, rnb, edm, does the SA1 pairing bring out the bass properly (being the hardest part to render for any amp). i have heard the Ares2 in my stereo setup wirh Ares2 vs mimby and found bass from Ares2 to be better textured and deeper in lowest octaves, while mimby had more body and bloom. With SA1, Arya, Ares2 combo, is the bass quantity/volume exciting or just rendered/check boxed? Why i ask is because i feel (ymmv) the arya (v2) need power to produce bass quantity and impact (texture and reach are good already with Arya and Ares2 combo).


Would be super to hear your and others views on the above..

Arya, Ares2 owners - please chime in!!


----------



## Mozbach

hottyson said:


> I upgraded to the Questyle CMA Twelve. I still own my Singxer SA-1 but is sitting on the shelf. I still use my RebelAmp, my Schiit Jotunheim 2, and my Lyr 3 quiet regularly. If you have a good pairing with your headphones, the SA-1 is excellent.


Interesting... would love to know how the lyr3 compares vs sa1 on soundstage, resolution, warmth? Iv heard Aryas are like butter with the Lyr3!! Quite tempted to look at lyr3 over Jot2 or just push more $ to the Sa1


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## Thetaburn (Nov 24, 2021)

Mozbach said:


> Im planning to get one this black friday sale as my end game to pair with Ares2 and Arya. While i plan to run it balanced, wanted to know from you if you had any experience using the arya
> 
> 1. Is there a performance drop with standard 2v dac input vs 4v bslanced input from ares2? Have you tried a single ended in and bal out config?
> 
> ...


1) only used with balanced connections

2) on the arya v2 Iow gain even maxed at 5pm dial positions is just 'loud enough'. High gain is better for arya v2. But high gains changes the sound presentation and brings alot of the sound characteristics forward.  Layering is better on low gain. Slam is better on high gain.
On the arya v3, 10 to 12pm dial position is more than enough sound on low gain.
Dynamics on the arya v2 is meh. Dynamics on the v3 is much better.

4) no distortions - in low gain all the way to the max on arya v2 - you will likely want more volume. High gain is very loud on the arya v2 @ 12 to 1pm dial.

5) I think the Sa1 with ares2 with no eq is adequate with bass. Bass response on the v3 is better than v2s. If you want more bass you have to add it with eq. Arya eq's very well.
The strength of the Ares 2 and Sa1 combo is the width and depth of sound stage. Separation of background instruments is also excellent with this combo.


----------



## Mozbach

Thetaburn said:


> 1) only used with balanced connections
> 2) on the arya v2 Iow gain even maxed at 5pm dial positions is just 'loud enough'. High gain is better for arya v2. But high gains changes the sound presentation and brings alot of the sound characteristics forward.  Layering is better on low gain. Slam is better on high gain.
> On the arya v3, 10 to 12pm dial position is more than enough sound on low gain.
> 4) no distortions - in low gain all the way to the max on arya v2 - you will likely want more volume. High gain is very loud on the arya v2 @ 12 to 1pm dial.
> ...


Thanks.. much appreciate the reply!! Quite right about the EQ aspect on Arya.. that definately helps. 

The trade off i read here is that if one wants volume and dynamics, go high gain and sacrifice some of that soundstage and layering or stay low gain at max vol on pot and enjoy the best the SA1, Ares2 combo offers? Is that a correct understanding?


----------



## Thetaburn

Mozbach said:


> Thanks.. much appreciate the reply!! Quite right about the EQ aspect on Arya.. that definately helps.
> 
> The trade off i read here is that if one wants volume and dynamics, go high gain and sacrifice some of that soundstage and layering or stay low gain at max vol on pot and enjoy the best the SA1, Ares2 combo offers? Is that a correct understanding?


Yes.
Depends if you are getting the Arya V2 or V3.
V3 has better dynamics and bass. Easier to drive (can use low gain on SA1).
V2 has a wider Soundstage (~15 percent more). Using max dial position in low gain might not be enough volume for your liking.


----------



## hottyson

Mozbach said:


> Interesting... would love to know how the lyr3 compares vs sa1 on soundstage, resolution, warmth? Iv heard Aryas are like butter with the Lyr3!! Quite tempted to look at lyr3 over Jot2 or just push more $ to the Sa1


It depends on the headphones. Unfortunately, I haven't owned nor yet listened to Aryas. Jot and Lyr are good, just don't go any lower in Schiit lineup than either one of these and you will be getting decent performance at a great value. My Jotunheim 2 pairs better with more of my planar headphones than my Singxer SA-1.


----------



## JaquesGelee

Thetaburn said:


> Yes.
> Depends if you are getting the Arya V2 or V3.
> V3 has better dynamics and bass. Easier to drive (can use low gain on SA1).
> V2 has a wider Soundstage (~15 percent more). Using max dial position in low gain might not be enough volume for your liking.


Got the V1 and Low Gain is the way to go like you described in soundstage. I don´t like it on high gain. 

But a ray of hope, when you wrote nearly maxed out your device on low gain is the way to go for an appropriate loudness. I still think i got a doa device. Cause maxed out on low gain my Arya V1 is whispering. And High gain sounds mehhh...Also RCA is louder than XLR, what i don´t understand at all.

I really would like to test the V2 and V3.



IZONE said:


> Having said that, if you are buying the SA-1 to primarily drive the Susvaras I would advise against it.


If i will ever own a susvara, I would never get the idea to use it permanently on an amp á la SA-1.


----------



## Mozbach

Thetaburn said:


> Yes.
> Depends if you are getting the Arya V2 or V3.
> V3 has better dynamics and bass. Easier to drive (can use low gain on SA1).
> V2 has a wider Soundstage (~15 percent more). Using max dial position in low gain might not be enough volume for your liking.


i got a sweet deal on the Arya's new (1000 USD) for v2 version as i value soundstage and layering (also why i chose ares2 over BF2).. that 600 USD saving is what i have to now get an amp for Arya v2. v3 is fantastic/better but its 600USD more! Happy with the v2.. there is no end to more/better


----------



## IZONE

Mozbach said:


> i got a sweet deal on the Arya's new (1000 USD) for v2 version as i value soundstage and layering (also why i chose ares2 over BF2).. that 600 USD saving is what i have to now get an amp for Arya v2. v3 is fantastic/better but its 600USD more! Happy with the v2.. there is no end to more/better



That is the truth brother but somehow I keep going for more and more and that is also kind of a sad truth  I'm listening to the Beyer-AK T1p on the Kann Alpha tonight and it sounds so heavenly I'm wondering, "wait why did I buy 14 more headphones and all these useless DACs and Amps?" So sad these wonderful headphones were discontinued so quickly. My advice is get a set up you like and then never log in to Head Fi again (I've been trying for more than a decade but I keep coming back here and keep listening to people who keep saying my gear is not good enough and I need to spend even more money). To be honest headphones in the $1K range are the sweet spot. The law of diminishing returns hits hard and fast. If you have all the money in the world that's fine just buy whatever you want but any version of the Arya puts you in the 0.1% of music fidelity IMHO and most people don't need to be in the 0.001% by dropping $50K or $100K on additional equipment. It only gets you more joy for a short time before you grow tired of all the new equipment again. Being happy with what you have is the true master of the game...


----------



## aroldan

Thetaburn said:


> 1) only used with balanced connections
> 
> 2) on the arya v2 Iow gain even maxed at 5pm dial positions is just 'loud enough'. High gain is better for arya v2. But high gains changes the sound presentation and brings alot of the sound characteristics forward.  Layering is better on low gain. Slam is better on high gain.
> On the arya v3, 10 to 12pm dial position is more than enough sound on low gain.
> ...



I'm currently using Ares 2 > SA-1 and Arya v2, using XLR interconnects and a XLR balanced cable to the Arya. SA-1 is in low gain.




 




Listening to Lizz Wright - The Orchard (a current favorite album), the SA-1 is around 10 or 11 o'clock. That album is good sounding with a standard compression
With Diana Krall's Quite Nights from HDTracks, I have to turn the volume around 12 or 1. At around 3 or 4pm it becomes just too loud.
Actually, I listen mostly to classical music and the SA-1 in low gain serves the purpose very well.


----------



## fattycheesebeef

aroldan said:


> I'm currently using Ares 2 > SA-1 and Arya v2, using XLR interconnects and a XLR balanced cable to the Arya. SA-1 is in low gain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This pairing is something I am looking get during Black Friday sales


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## NascentAP

Mozbach said:


> Im planning to get one this black friday sale as my end game to pair with Ares2 and Arya. While i plan to run it balanced, wanted to know from you if you had any experience using the arya
> 
> 1. Is there a performance drop with standard 2v dac input vs 4v bslanced input from ares2? Have you tried a single ended in and bal out config?
> - I have not directly tested SE in/Bal out with Arya. I've been using Bal in/out all the time. I will be away for Thanksgiving so wont be able to test soon but will report back once I do.





Mozbach said:


> 2. At 2-3 pm on low gain, how are the dynamics? While i suspect it would be audibly pretty loud, the Aryas 'perform' their best with more power, esp. wrt macro dynamics and impact. How did you find the bass punch/impact on the pairing - how would you describe from slam, texture, layering perspective?
> - Dynamics are great. That's the first thing I noticed when I switched from A90 to SA-1 was the bass was significantly more, defined, and textured. The BasX a-100 has more pronounced bass than SA-1 but can sound a bit bloated. I'm not a bass head so keep that in mind but I have not had any issues with dynamics. I also own HE6 V2 and Focal Elex and while it's clear that these two punch harder, I never felt the dynamics to be anemic in Arya. As for texture and layering, it's probably the best sounding bass I've ever heard. One thing I do know is that the Ares II is a smooth DAC so leading edge can sound smoothed out, lessening the perception of a punch.





Mozbach said:


> 3. Are u using it with high Z or low Z (not gain). Also do you listen loudly (past 90db) or hover in 80-85 db mostly?
> - I stay in low Z as I dont think Hi-Z makes that big of a difference, especially with the headphones in my collection (which are mostly planars). As for the loudness, I never accurately measured it but my guess is it's closer to 80-85 db.





Mozbach said:


> 4. Whats the headroom like past 3 pm..i guess it pushes all the way upto 5:30 pm.. Does it distort at very high volumes/maxed out? At what point wud u say it reaches loud listening thresholds (ie will go deaf if u listen at this level for more than a few minutes)
> - I never pushed it past 330pm on the Arya. 2pm is a good listening volume and 3pm is a jam session. I never tested Arya at the max volume but I probably went max to 4pm at one point and I'm pretty sure there was no distortion. I can try to test again when I return.





Mozbach said:


> 5. For pop, rnb, edm, does the SA1 pairing bring out the bass properly (being the hardest part to render for any amp). i have heard the Ares2 in my stereo setup wirh Ares2 vs mimby and found bass from Ares2 to be better textured and deeper in lowest octaves, while mimby had more body and bloom. With SA1, Arya, Ares2 combo, is the bass quantity/volume exciting or just rendered/check boxed? Why i ask is because i feel (ymmv) the arya (v2) need power to produce bass quantity and impact (texture and reach are good already with Arya and Ares2 combo).
> - In my experience, the SA1, Arya, Ares2 combo brings very defined and clean planar bass with ample sub bass. Using a delta sigma DAC like the E30 can probably sound a bit punchier due to its "edgier" sound and BasX A-100 might provide more but bloomy mid bass. Even so, I feel Ares II does dynamic range really well so the music sounds more spaced out and textured (even the bass), especially with a revealing headphone like the Arya. - Hope this helps!
> 
> Would be super to hear your and others views on the above.
> Arya, Ares2 owners - please chime in!!


I hear you. Ares II->SA-1->Arya v2 sound so good to my ears that I haven't felt the need to upgrade (yet). For context, my only other DAC is E30 and for HP amps, A90 and Emotiva BasX A-100. My answers are in line with your questions above:


----------



## Mozbach (Nov 26, 2021)

IZONE said:


> To be honest headphones in the $1K range are the sweet spot. The law of diminishing returns hits hard and fast. If you have all the money in the world that's fine just buy whatever you want but any version of the Arya puts you in the 0.1% of music fidelity IMHO and most people don't need to be in the 0.001% by dropping $50K or $100K on additional equipment. It only gets you more joy for a short time before you grow tired of all the new equipment again. Being happy with what you have is the true master of the game...


Completely agree on that! If u have spare cash in the 1000's, by all means go for it. Satisfaction doesnt have a price tag. Anything above 1k-2k is where the law of diminshing returns comes in. Anything beyond that, ur paying for nuances and niches in performance improvements. Plus even if u enter, it typically requires an overhaul of entire chain which to me (today) seems not worth it.
Heck i even tried to upgrade the v2 to v3, reaching out to HFM. But for an additional 500 USD, id rather save that or spend it on an OTL amp down the line, for the 6xx. Even the SA1 is sort of an itch since i dont have a dedicated amp for HPs... Yet time and again, that statement of "being happy with what you have" puts me in an oscillated mental state!!


----------



## Mozbach

NascentAP said:


> I hear you. Ares II->SA-1->Arya v2 sound so good to my ears that I haven't felt the need to upgrade (yet). For context, my only other DAC is E30 and for HP amps, A90 and Emotiva BasX A-100. My answers are in line with your questions above:


Thanks for taking the time to reply.. this is very helpful.. Will wait to hear from you on more tests.. Btw, which version of Arya do u own, somehow i missed asking that info  

Enjoy the thanksgiving vacay!


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## hottyson (Nov 24, 2021)

> IZONE said:
> That is the truth brother but somehow I keep going for more and more and that is also kind of a sad truth  I'm listening to the Beyer-AK T1p on the Kann Alpha tonight and it sounds so heavenly I'm wondering, "wait why did I buy 14 more headphones and all these useless DACs and Amps?" So sad these wonderful headphones were discontinued so quickly. My advice is get a set up you like and then never log in to Head Fi again (I've been trying for more than a decade but I keep coming back here and keep listening to people who keep saying my gear is not good enough and I need to spend even more money). To be honest headphones in the $1K range are the sweet spot. The law of diminishing returns hits hard and fast. If you have all the money in the world that's fine just buy whatever you want but any version of the Arya puts you in the 0.1% of music fidelity IMHO and most people don't need to be in the 0.001% by dropping $50K or $100K on additional equipment. It only gets you more joy for a short time before you grow tired of all the new equipment again. Being happy with what you have is the true master of the game...


----------



## NascentAP (Nov 24, 2021)

Mozbach said:


> Thanks for taking the time to reply.. this is very helpful.. Will wait to hear from you on more tests.. Btw, which version of Arya do u own, somehow i missed asking that info
> 
> Enjoy the thanksgiving vacay!


It’s v2. Never heard other versions. Curious about v3 though.

Edit: also forgot to mention that I keep my SA-1 in low gain.


----------



## Thetaburn

Mozbach said:


> Completely agree on that! If u have spare cash in the 1000's, by all means go for it. Satisfaction doesnt have a price tag. Anything above 1k-2k is where the law of diminshing returns comes in. Anything beyond that, ur paying for nuances and niches in performance improvements. Plus even if u enter, it typically requires an overhaul of entire chain which to me (today) seems not worth it.
> Heck i even tried to upgrade the v2 to v3, reaching out to HFM. But for an additional 500 USD, id rather save that or spend it on an OTL amp down the line, for the 6xx. Even the SA1 is sort of an itch since i dont have a dedicated amp for HPs. Im currently using the HP out of a marantz discrete component high current feedback topology stereo power amp (not integrated or AVR). Everytime i give it a listen, all the terms people describe get check boxed. But knowing the HP out has an output impedance of 400 OHMS, it seems i should get a proper amp (given the low impedance can).. Yet time and again, that statement of "being happy with what you have" puts me in an oscillated mental state!!


The Arya v2 or v3 connected to a synergistic source chain is enjoyable.


NascentAP said:


> It’s v2. Never heard other versions. Curious about v3 though.


You will be happy with either. Both are excellent and enjoyable headphones.


----------



## Mozbach

Thetaburn said:


> 2) on the arya v2 Iow gain even maxed at 5pm dial positions is just 'loud enough'. High gain is better for arya v2.


Just curious where does the arya get maxed on the vol. pot - when using on HIGH gain (for you). 

Is there headroom or is it nearing max (5 pm)?


----------



## Mozbach

JaquesGelee said:


> Got the V1 and Low Gain is the way to go like you described in soundstage. I don´t like it on high gain.
> 
> But a ray of hope, when you wrote nearly maxed out your device on low gain is the way to go for an appropriate loudness. I still think i got a doa device. Cause maxed out on low gain my Arya V1 is whispering. And High gain sounds mehhh...Also RCA is louder than XLR, what i don´t understand at all.



Seems like there isn't consensus on the powering abilities on SA1 for Arya's... And thats true even for reviewers - some say its enough (read no headroom) and some claim its more than enough... Even if its subjective, conflicting consensus on the vol. pot is putting a few people off (incl. myself) from spending 500$ on this amp...!!


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Mozbach said:


> Seems like there isn't consensus on the powering abilities on SA1 for Arya's... And thats true even for reviewers - some say its enough (read no headroom) and some claim its more than enough... Even if its subjective, conflicting consensus on the vol. pot is putting a few people off (incl. myself) from spending 500$ on this amp...!!



With 4V or 5V balance DAC and Arya V2 feed by XLR balance of Singxer, the headroom is plenty. 

If you use 2V (or lower) DAC, and feed Arya V2 with 6.3mm single ended, the headroom is almost max.

Note: Arya V3 would be easier to drive than Arya V2.

I think this is the main reason there is no consensus. Actually same problem to any balance amp out there too. Could be most people only complain/praise their set up, without mention the detail how they use the set up.


----------



## Mozbach

TheMiddleSky said:


> With 4V or 5V balance DAC and Arya V2 feed by XLR balance of Singxer, the headroom is plenty.


Wud that hold true even for the 4.4mm balanced out?


----------



## JaquesGelee

TheMiddleSky said:


> With 4V or 5V balance DAC and Arya V2 feed by XLR balance of Singxer, the headroom is plenty.
> 
> If you use 2V (or lower) DAC, and feed Arya V2 with 6.3mm single ended, the headroom is almost max.
> 
> ...


Nobody here is talking about the V1. 😅🤔


----------



## orangecrescent

Mozbach said:


> Seems like there isn't consensus on the powering abilities on SA1 for Arya's... And thats true even for reviewers - some say its enough (read no headroom) and some claim its more than enough... Even if its subjective, conflicting consensus on the vol. pot is putting a few people off (incl. myself) from spending 500$ on this amp...!!


Uhh... I think there is indeed a rough consensus.  That's how I based my purchases and later, the settings, on.  For v2, balanced all the way with 4 (or 5) Vrms dac you can stay in low gain, though the knob may turn near to the max sometimes for quieter tracks.  And almost certainly for v3 the low gain is comfortably adequate with those dac outputs.


----------



## Mansinthe86

Have been using the SA-1 in low gain mode with the focal Elegia in balanced mode. 1-2pm was Usually more than loud enough.

Today I got the Dan Clark Aeon 2 noire and I'm definitely closer to maximum volume if I want "loud". But that's still In low gain.


----------



## fattycheesebeef

After reading impressions on this thread, this amp is not neutral, can I say it's towards the warm side?


----------



## dstarr3

fattycheesebeef said:


> After reading impressions on this thread, this amp is not neutral, can I say it's towards the warm side?


This amp is definitely not neutral. That's why we like it.


----------



## fattycheesebeef

I wonder if there's LCD 2 impressions with SA-1?


----------



## Tex Irie

cobrabucket said:


> Something like this, "Thousand Knives" [DSD128] by Ryuichi Sakamoto that's at a low volume requires around 3 o'clock to get to be "loud enough" for my personal tastes. (Look at the Waveform to see the differences in volume.)
> "Violator" [DST64] by Depeche Mode, which is louder, only has to go to 12 or 1...


@cobrabucket Do you recall the name of the VU Meter Plugin you're using in these screenshots?


----------



## cobrabucket

Tex Irie said:


> @cobrabucket Do you recall the name of the VU Meter Plugin you're using in these screenshots?


foo_vis_vumeter.dll

*LINKY...*


----------



## Tex Irie

cobrabucket said:


> foo_vis_vumeter.dll
> 
> *LINKY...*


Thank you!


----------



## cobrabucket

Tex Irie said:


> Thank you!


Np, my dude.


----------



## Mansinthe86

fattycheesebeef said:


> After reading impressions on this thread, this amp is not neutral, can I say it's towards the warm side?


It's not neutral but it's not tube like "warm" at all.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

fattycheesebeef said:


> After reading impressions on this thread, this amp is not neutral, can I say it's towards the warm side?



Depend on what your reference being "neutral". Based on subjective perception, "neutral" may sound  different from one to each others. However, based on measurement test, Singxer is dead flat in term of frequency response. Of course only FR will not tell the whole story.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Mozbach said:


> Wud that hold true even for the 4.4mm balanced out?


4.4mm suppose to be produce same power as XLR



JaquesGelee said:


> Nobody here is talking about the V1. 😅🤔


Haha, V1 should be the same as V2 in term of sensitivity and impedance.


----------



## xtiva

I just ordered one this morning before reading this thread but think I might be lucky that Gustard H20 was out of stock from local retailer.  Retailer recommended me of this amp and advised I might enjoy this more than Gustard...  Opamp vs Discrete...

Gather this amp could be very musical amp,  hopefully it goes well with my DAC and headphone 

Can't wait for it be delivered


----------



## fattycheesebeef

How hot does this amp goes?


----------



## NPWS

fattycheesebeef said:


> How hot does this amp goes?


mine just get warm for driving IEM, and while I used headphones its get hot but still acceptable


----------



## TheRealDz

fattycheesebeef said:


> How hot does this amp goes?


Mine has never gone much above room temperature for any headphone, at any volume.  And that is on low gain.


----------



## Tex Irie

godmax said:


> My SA-1 arrived 2 days ago together with the Musician Pegasus. It very early to make a qualified statement, but so far I do like the unit very much (so far it might not rival my other amps 100%, but the 4.4mm Pentacon alone was enough reason for me). Even so the SA-1 is not fully class A, it powers e.g. my HP-3 as good as my other class A amplifiers.
> 
> Seems Singxer was "inspired" by the Questyle product design


@godmax Your gear is nice!!  Do you have a preference between the Singxer SA-1 and the Headamp GS-x Mini?


----------



## Mozbach

Tex Irie said:


> @godmax Your gear is nice!!  Do you have a preference between the Singxer SA-1 and the Headamp GS-x Mini


even im keen to know if the headamp is a major step up and hows the pairing with the ares2! 

Tx


----------



## godmax

Tex Irie said:


> @godmax Your gear is nice!!  Do you have a preference between the Singxer SA-1 and the Headamp GS-x Mini?


Even some of the gear changed since taking that photo, I still have the GS-X mini and SA-1. Although my SA-1 had the known permanent protection issue and was replaced under warranty, but that took 3 month including sending back to china and idling at their customs.
I still use both amps regularly: The GS-X mini is now paired with the Gustard X26 Pro and the SA-1 is hooked to the Ares II. 
Most of the time I use the Kennerton Rögnir or HE6se V2 on the SA-1/Ares II, even its almost max volume at low gain and configured a fixed -6db preamp gain for EQ, you can see it has enough power to drive even the hard-to-drive Hifiman. 
The GS-X mini might be overall the better amp still, but the SA-1 is not far off and with a little EQ you can take more purposeful influence to the sound than from going from the SA-1 to the mini.


Mozbach said:


> even im keen to know if the headamp is a major step up and hows the pairing with the ares2!


Before I switched to the Gustard X26 Pro I almost exclusively used the Ares II with the GS-X mini, so yes I would say you cannot go wrong with this combo. For me the SA-1 is more neutral and true to the source, the GS-X mini adds some euphoric distortion (that can always be a hit or miss, depended on your preference or headphone you use with)


----------



## Tex Irie

godmax said:


> Even some of the gear changed since taking that photo, I still have the GS-X mini and SA-1. Although my SA-1 had the known permanent protection issue and was replaced under warranty, but that took 3 month including sending back to china and idling at their customs.
> I still use both amps regularly: The GS-X mini is now paired with the Gustard X26 Pro and the SA-1 is hooked to the Ares II.
> Most of the time I use the Kennerton Rögnir or HE6se V2 on the SA-1/Ares II, even its almost max volume at low gain and configured a fixed -6db preamp gain for EQ, you can see it has enough power to drive even the hard-to-drive Hifiman.
> The GS-X mini might be overall the better amp still, but the SA-1 is not far off and with a little EQ you can take more purposeful influence to the sound than from going from the SA-1 to the mini.
> ...


@godmax Thank you for the response.  I happened to see your thoughts in the GS-X Mini thread as well.  I think I will opt for the GS-X Mini with the ALPS Pot and be done with searching for a new amp.


----------



## xtiva

Tex Irie said:


> @godmax Thank you for the response.  I happened to see your thoughts in the GS-X Mini thread as well.  I think I will opt for the GS-X Mini with the ALPS Pot and be done with searching for a new amp.


yeah was looking at GS-X mini too myself but decided to go with Phonitor after auditioning about a year ago... 

any amp in this price bracket are all extremely good, just matter of your perceived preference on sound  

I would also add one more for you to consider, Sparkos Aries   It had the best spacious sound stage and transparent amp.. only downside is no balanced 4 pin headphone output...


----------



## Tex Irie

xtiva said:


> yeah was looking at GS-X mini too myself but decided to go with Phonitor after auditioning about a year ago...
> 
> any amp in this price bracket are all extremely good, just matter of your perceived preference on sound
> 
> I would also add one more for you to consider, Sparkos Aries   It had the best spacious sound stage and transparent amp.. only downside is no balanced 4 pin headphone output...


@xtiva thank you.. I've never heard of the Sparkos Aries. I'll look it up! I'll definitely need a balanced output. Which Phonitor do you have?


----------



## xtiva

Tex Irie said:


> @xtiva thank you.. I've never heard of the Sparkos Aries. I'll look it up! I'll definitely need a balanced output. Which Phonitor do you have?


I have Phonitor X without DAC  but XE or E, apparently, sounds the same.. its just the feature sets.  X has pre amp and hence more expensive


----------



## Tex Irie

xtiva said:


> I have Phonitor X without DAC  but XE or E, apparently, sounds the same.. its just the feature sets.  X has pre amp and hence more expensive


Thank you for explaining the differences. I appreciate it @xtiva.


----------



## Thetaburn

Finally received the jumpers for the jumper mod from Aliexpress. Mod took ~5 mins to do. The clarity slightly improved, or it changed the treble a bit. Either way I like it.


----------



## brianfromspace

Have a SA-1 available, in Netherlands. PM me if you’re interested.


----------



## Tazyn (Dec 10, 2021)

Tazyn said:


> I haven't received a new fuse yet. I will not recommend it without my own experience. And I soldered the standard fuse from the outside with a copper wire. The improvements I have heard give me reason to say that this method works.


Got a fuse. It's really better than the standard one. An interesting experience. But I'll keep it in my dac. In Sa-1, I will leave the standard fuse previously soldered with a copper wire, as this form turned out to be no worse than the new one, but with a sound more interesting to me.
https://aliexpress.ru/item/10050025...9065.615227563.1638789129-24137429.1611573905


----------



## Mansinthe86

Tazyn said:


> Got a fuse. It's really better than the standard one. An interesting experience. But I'll keep it in my dac. In Sa-1, I will leave the standard fuse previously soldered with a copper wire, as this form turned out to be no worse than the new one, but with a sound more interesting to me.
> https://aliexpress.ru/item/10050025...9065.615227563.1638789129-24137429.1611573905


So that fuse works in the SA1? And I assume most gustard DACs?


----------



## Tazyn (Dec 13, 2021)

Mansinthe86 said:


> So that fuse works in the SA1? And I assume most gustard DACs?


Fuses are a standardized product. Its parameters correspond to the DIN system. This fuse can be placed in any suitable socket (even in a kettle or iron or TV), the main thing is that it fits in amperes.


----------



## Lovebox

My Singxer-SA1 just started to "whistle" while being on. It isn't noticeable while listening to headphones but it's constantly doing this beeping-kinda noise. I didn't change any gear or source, just switched it on 2 hours ago. I didn't have had any issues before. I also unplugged it from my dac, tried different sockets around my flat - same story. 

Here is a recording (I switch it off and back on so the differences are more noticeable):

Recording 

Anyone can give me advice?


----------



## hottyson (Dec 13, 2021)

Lovebox said:


> My Singxer-SA1 just started to "whistle" while being on. It isn't noticeable while listening to headphones but it's constantly doing this beeping-kinda noise. I didn't change any gear or source, just switched it on 2 hours ago. I didn't have had any issues before. I also unplugged it from my dac, tried different sockets around my flat - same story.
> 
> Here is a recording (I switch it off and back on so the differences are more noticeable):
> 
> ...


If I am hearing your recording correctly, this reminds me of the whine that electronics emit when they have leaky or dried up capacitors. This would however be hard to believed to be the case in such a new amp. So I don't think I will be able to help you diagnose the issue. You might end up having to have someone versed in electronics repair physically check it out with a meter and poke around until they find the problem. Sorry, about your issue.

This is one area that I fear when buying Chinese headphone amplifiers. One just never knows how short of a life span they will have. I especially would stay far away from the brand Topping as they are the worst of all.

There are some great brands out there that I would recommend to all for durability and longevity. I have great confidence in my *Rebel Audio* amp manufactured in the Ukraine. I have four *Ray Samuels* headphone amplifiers made in the USA with the oldest one over one and a half decades old and still going strong (18 years). I also have three *Beyerdynamic *amplifiers that are manufactured in Germany. My two headphone amplifiers made by *Headamp *here in the USA are also bullet proof. Those four brands are very trustworthy and I have confidence in them having long lifespans.


----------



## Tex Irie

hottyson said:


> If I am hearing your recording correctly, this reminds me of the whine that electronics emit when they have leaky or dried up capacitors. This would however be hard to believed to be the case in such a new amp. So I don't think I will be able to help you diagnose the issue. You might end up having to have someone versed in electronics repair physically check it out with a meter and poke around until they find the problem. Sorry, about your issue.
> 
> This is one area that I fear when buying Chinese headphone amplifiers. One just never knows how short of a life span they will have. I especially would stay far away from the brand Topping as they are the worst of all.
> 
> There are some great brands out there that I would recommend to all for durability and longevity. I have great confidence in my *Rebel Audio* amp manufactured in the Ukraine. I have four *Ray Samuels* headphone amplifiers made in the USA with the oldest one over one and a half decades old and still going strong (18 years). I also have three *Beyerdynamic *amplifiers that are manufactured in Germany. My two headphone amplifiers made by *Headamp *here in the USA are also bullet proof. Those four brands are very trustworthy and I have confidence in them having long lifespans.


@hottyson That Signature block of yours! 🏆


----------



## hottyson

Tex Irie said:


> @hottyson That Signature block of yours! 🏆






Sorry to derail the thread, but this is what I have hooked up tonight.


----------



## Tex Irie

hottyson said:


> Sorry to derail the thread, but this is what I have hooked up tonight.


Lovely setup!


----------



## Tazyn

Lovebox said:


> Anyone can give me advice?


To eliminate the possibility of poor power supply, can you connect another amplifier to the same outlet?


----------



## Lovebox

Tazyn said:


> To eliminate the possibility of poor power supply, can you connect another amplifier to the same outlet?


I just turned it on again - no whistling sound. I'm just wondering if the noise was caused by overheating. The amp gets warm with daily use, but I don't think it's hot.


----------



## Mansinthe86

hottyson said:


> ve great confidence in my *Rebel Audio* amp manufactured in the Ukraine. I have four *Ray Samuels* headphone amplifiers made in the USA with the oldest one over one and a half decades old and still going strong (18 years). I also have three *Beyerdynamic *amplifiers that are manufactured in Germany. My two headphone amplifiers made by *Headamp *here in the USA are also bullet proof. Those four brands are very trustworthy and I have confidence in them having long lifespans.




Is there a retailer for rebel amps in the EU?

Quality control and lifespan is a reason why I stay away from topping and hifiman.


----------



## Tazyn (Dec 15, 2021)

Lovebox said:


> I just turned it on again - no whistling sound. I'm just wondering if the noise was caused by overheating. The amp gets warm with daily use, but I don't think it's hot.


It is unlikely that the noise is caused by overheating. It was very hot for me this summer. The amplifier was heating up very much, it was not comfortable to hold your hand (65 degrees or higher). There was no noise. If there is noise again, try plugging another amplifier into the same outlet. If the noise is repeated on another amplifier, it means that the problem is unstable electrical power supply of the network.


----------



## jonathan c

Mansinthe86 said:


> Is there a retailer for rebel amps in the EU?
> 
> Quality control and lifespan is a reason why I stay away from topping and hifiman.


Purchase is from the Rebel Amp website only.


----------



## Tazyn

Mansinthe86 said:


> Quality control and lifespan is a reason why I stay away from topping and hifiman.


I've owned a hifiman 400i for three years. During this time, they fell off my table many times. There were no breakdowns, only minor scratches.


----------



## IZONE

hottyson said:


> Sorry to derail the thread, but this is what I have hooked up tonight.


Looks to be tube magic! God I miss tubes. What is your favorite? Any recommendations?


----------



## hottyson

IZONE said:


> Looks to be tube magic! God I miss tubes. What is your favorite? Any recommendations?


I love them all! But if we are talking about favorite as far as value, then the Darkvoice 336SE and Little Dot MKIII are super FUN sounding amps for the money. The Darkvoice when found for $200 and add about $20 in tubes gets some magic going on the cheap and probably edges the MKIII out on value. However, having a variety of tube amps and plugging into each on the fly is the way to go. Mullard tubes seem to have been my most listened tubes of late. Not that they are the best, just that the headphones that I have been listening to seem to gel well with them.


----------



## amele

I'm interested in the synergy between Singxer SA1 and Arya Stealth, if anyone has this combination and if they can tell how it sounds


----------



## NPWS

amele said:


> I'm interested in the synergy between Singxer SA1 and Arya Stealth, if anyone has this combination and if they can tell how it sounds


they sounds amazing, but sometimes too bright to my taste and music playlist


----------



## equalspeace (Dec 27, 2021)

.....


----------



## Qhao

amele said:


> I'm interested in the synergy between Singxer SA1 and Arya Stealth, if anyone has this combination and if they can tell how it sounds


its amazing, airy, soundstage is great with class a amp. im paired it with d90se and dont forget turn on setting 0 db from 4v to 5v.


----------



## Muataz

NPWS said:


> they sounds amazing, but sometimes too bright to my taste and music playlist


Try the High-Z, will soft the sound


----------



## Mansinthe86

Qhao said:


> its amazing, airy, soundstage is great with class a amp. im paired it with d90se and dont forget turn on setting 0 db from 4v to 5v.



The Singxer is only class A in low gain mode if you don't listen very loud. I think it was like 0.5 watt before it changes to A/B.

But i still love the Singxer.
Using it in high gain mode with high Z and the DC Aeon 2 Noire.

Focal Elegia in high gain as well because I'm to lazy to change it every time 😂


----------



## Muataz

Mansinthe86 said:


> Have been using the SA-1 in low gain mode with the focal Elegia in balanced mode. 1-2pm was Usually more than loud enough.
> 
> Today I got the Dan Clark Aeon 2 noire and I'm definitely closer to maximum volume if I want "loud". But that's still In low gain.


Who does the Aeon 2 sound to you compare to Elegia ? is it an upgrade ?


----------



## Muataz

Mansinthe86 said:


> The Singxer is only class A in low gain mode if you don't listen very loud. I think it was like 0.5 watt before it changes to A/B.
> 
> But i still love the Singxer.
> Using it in high gain mode with high Z and the DC Aeon 2 Noire.
> ...


The Class A mode of the SA-1: 

In Balanced 16 ohm load: under 500mw;
32 ohm load: under 1000mw; 
68 ohm load: under 3000mw;
Load of more than 68 ohm : almost all the power is class A.


----------



## Lovebox

Muataz said:


> The Class A mode of the SA-1:
> 
> In Balanced 16 ohm load: under 500mw;
> 32 ohm load: under 1000mw;
> ...


Where you got that information from?


----------



## Muataz

Lovebox said:


> Where you got that information from?


In the official website
http://www.singxer.com/pd.jsp?id=82


----------



## Qhao

Mansinthe86 said:


> The Singxer is only class A in low gain mode if you don't listen very loud. I think it was like 0.5 watt before it changes to A/B.
> 
> But i still love the Singxer.
> Using it in high gain mode with high Z and the DC Aeon 2 Noire.
> ...


Yes, i used it with low gain, but the dac d90se in 5v setting. 🤣


----------



## Mansinthe86 (Jan 4, 2022)

Muataz said:


> Who does the Aeon 2 sound to you compare to Elegia ? is it an upgrade ?


Yeah definitely a upgrade.
Even with sheepskin pads and EQ on the Elegia, the aeon 2 noire are "better".
(At least to me).

But if you prefer punchy fast bass and enjoy the "focal" sound they might be more to your liking.

I really enjoy the noire for most music. 
But my wife prefers the Elegia


----------



## the1andonly

almost took up an offer for a very good deal on this DAC, anyone ever compare it to the SABRE DAC in the Oppo HA-1 (ES9018) considering doing a setup with tubes, the AMP in this thing is magic but I want to see if there are any more resolving smooth DACs around and need to be careful after testing the E90/D90 which I thought was atrocious


----------



## Kitarist

Does anyone know how does this one compare to Topping A90?


----------



## Mozbach (Jan 8, 2022)

Kitarist said:


> Does anyone know how does this one compare to Topping A90?



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...-beyond-thx-888.952074/page-107#post-16618019

Cheers!

Remember to thank @TheMiddleSky !!


----------



## Pilotter

Use my  1 day old SA-1 with a Sundara with balanced cable. Can anybody explain what the high and low gain do in terms of sound, and the same for Hi-Z en Low-Z. I'm not so interested in the technical aspects, but more what these settings do for my ears.
What settings would be preferable for the Sundara. Thanx !


----------



## hottyson

Pilotter said:


> Use my  1 day old SA-1 with a Sundara with balanced cable. Can anybody explain what the high and low gain do in terms of sound, and the same for Hi-Z en Low-Z. I'm not so interested in the technical aspects, but more what these settings do for my ears.
> What settings would be preferable for the Sundara. Thanx !


Low gain will lower the noise floor. High gain will allow you to turn up volume on inefficient headphones. Since the switches are located on the bottom, power off your amp and just leave them on high gain.
.
Gain switch might change sound. Try it. If you don't hear a difference, then just put it on either one.


----------



## Pilotter

hottyson said:


> Low gain will lower the noise floor. High gain will allow you to turn up volume on inefficient headphones. Since the switches are located on the bottom, power off your amp and just leave them on high gain.
> .
> Gain switch might change sound. Try it. If you don't hear a difference, then just put it on either one.


Hi hottison. What do you mean by 'lower the noise floor' ? And what are inefficient headphones ? Are the Sundara inefficient ?


----------



## hottyson

When there is a pause in the music or between tracks you might hear hiss or noise. Lowering gain will reduce this. I just leave mine on high all of the time so that I don't have to turn off amp and adjust switches on the bottom.

Inefficient headphones are headphones that require you to turn up the volume knob because they are too quiet compared to other headphones.


----------



## Ricey20

anyone know what Amp fuse to use for the USA/NA SA-1?


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno

So I took the plunge and did the jumper mod today. I purchased the SA-1 secondhand so didn't have concerns about voiding the warranty, more so scared I'd fry the amp or headphones. It was fairly straight forward, I recommend watching Passion for Sound's youtube instruction video if you're uncertain. I did not A/B test once I had the jumper's on so mostly going off memory which is certainly not the best. I think the first thing that stood out to me after a few hours of listening is the treble. I listen to a lot of rock, electronic music (techno/progressive house in particular) and I think cymbals/hi-hats have a bit more clarity and emphasis. Its not harsh or sibilant but rather enjoyable (and this is coming from someone who enjoys warmer sound signatures). It's not a drastic difference but certainly noticeable enough. This next part I'm not certain on and wish I could A/B test better, but the amp seems fuller/livelier. This could be the treble's doing or my mind playing tricks on me haha. Overall I'm enjoying the mod and will probably leave it now that I know I didn't damage anything in the process


----------



## TheRealDz

Kitarist said:


> Does anyone know how does this one compare to Topping A90?


I owned the A90 for a few months before selling it and buying a Jot 2.  The Jot 2 was a fine Amp, but the SA1 was simply better.   

If the term "musical" means anything to you, the A90 is the antithesis of musical.   Whereas, I really, really like my SA1.


----------



## xtiva

TheRealDz said:


> I owned the A90 for a few months before selling it and buying a Jot 2.  The Jot 2 was a fine Amp, but the SA1 was simply better.
> 
> If the term "musical" means anything to you, the A90 is the antithesis of musical.   Whereas, I really, really like my SA1.


Thanks for comparison  with A90... how does it compared to Jot?  I know Jot is on warm musical sounding amp...is SA-1 Warner?

Thanks.


----------



## xtiva

Finally got my SA-1 after 2 month of wait... but it is worth the wait....  loving it already .. will see how much of improvement I would get after burn!!!

I can sell my Topping DX7 with Burson V6 Opamp now... this is far better than DX7...

Only wish is the remote control at least for the volume....


----------



## dstarr3 (Jan 20, 2022)

I'm glad you like it. I've only grown to love mine more and more after spending the past few months with it. Extremely satisfied.


----------



## xtiva

dstarr3 said:


> I'm glad you like it. I've only grown to love mine more and more after spending the past few months with it. Extremely satisfied.


Thanks btw how long did it take for it to open up? ie burn in time?


----------



## dstarr3

I don't know if I ever noticed any burn-in, I'm not particularly a believer in solid-state amp burn-in. But I will say that the balanced output does sound noticeably better that the SE output in my experience, so I would try to use that whenever possible.


----------



## xtiva

dstarr3 said:


> I don't know if I ever noticed any burn-in, I'm not particularly a believer in solid-state amp burn-in. But I will say that the balanced output does sound noticeably better that the SE output in my experience, so I would try to use that whenever possible.


Oh Great thanks for the information. I am using in balanced mode, both input and heaphone  


Thanks.


----------



## TheRealDz

xtiva said:


> Thanks btw how long did it take for it to open up? ie burn in time?


Give it about 200 hours and it will stabilize.


----------



## xtiva

TheRealDz said:


> Give it about 200 hours and it will stabilize.



Oh thanks for the confirmatio  will be patient


----------



## Mansinthe86

I'm using the Singxer SA1 exclusively in high gain mode these days. Balanced connection. Have the volume knob at 3pm with my aeon 2 noire.

Love this thing. 👌
But I saw plenty of reviews that mention that the Burson Soloist 3x performance would be a whole other beast. Especially when it comes to soundstage


----------



## TheRealDz

Mansinthe86 said:


> I'm using the Singxer SA1 exclusively in high gain mode these days. Balanced connection. Have the volume knob at 3pm with my aeon 2 noire.
> 
> Love this thing. 👌
> But I saw plenty of reviews that mention that the Burson Soloist 3x performance would be a whole other beast. Especially when it comes to soundstage


Way to go, @Mansinthe86 - now I will have to wonder about the Burson... 🙄


----------



## Mansinthe86

TheRealDz said:


> Way to go, @Mansinthe86 - now I will have to wonder about the Burson... 🙄




Yeah. The soloist 3x performance uses the muse chip from more expensive amplifiers. The conductor (amp+DAC) doesn't. The soloist has 8 watt. I believe the Singxer SA1 has 5.5-6 watt but is not pure class A.

So the Burson is probably going to require 70-80 watt to output these 8 watt.  But I'm looking for a bedroom setup anyway. So I could use the Burson in the living room and move the Singxer to the bedroom.

I've seen actually a lot of reviews that mention basically the same when it comes to your typicall amps like Singxer, topping , jotenheim, Smsl etc Vs the Burson.

The fluxlabs stuff is interesting as well but the Burson seems to be more refined and cleaner sounding. + U get to mess around with the OP amps.

So I'm seriously looking into a Burson Soloist 3x performance just not sure where I want to use it yet. 

The Singxer SA1 is my first headphone amp and I don't want to go a endless upgrade cycle. So I will just go for "Endgame" .

Doesn't look like Singxer has plans to release a beefier version of the SA1. 

And with the quality issues of topping, Smsl, Gustard etc there is not really much else left.


----------



## xtiva

Mansinthe86 said:


> Yeah. The soloist 3x performance uses the muse chip from more expensive amplifiers. The conductor (amp+DAC) doesn't. The soloist has 8 watt. I believe the Singxer SA1 has 5.5-6 watt but is not pure class A.
> 
> So the Burson is probably going to require 70-80 watt to output these 8 watt.  But I'm looking for a bedroom setup anyway. So I could use the Burson in the living room and move the Singxer to the bedroom.
> 
> ...



Burson I believe definitely has wider soundstage then SA-1. Feel SA-1's soundstage to be a little too narrow for my liking. Tonality is very good, it has great detail and hint of warmth but soundstage is real let down from my liking, as I listen mostly classical music.

But with this narrower soundstage, sometime, vocal could shine as vocal can be more in front of you.

Have listened to Soloist and they are a little warmer than SA-1 with a little rolled of treble for my ears.  from 0-10 scale, where 0 beling warm and 10 being bright, SA-1 would be 4.5 and Soloist at around 4.  This is just what i hear but people might hear it differently 

Pros for Soloist;
Soundstage
Remote Control (it can be cons as it is very basic and makes rattle noise when shaking the remote, looks like the button is not loose, could be the issue my friend's unit)

Cons for Soloist
Temperature - it is hot to touch, You won't be able to hold onto the unit for long.  SA-1 the other hand is just warm, guessing this tells, this might be in A/B mode, rather than pure class A mode.

They both are great unit though.  

Most of people would be the same but even if you get a end game device for today, that might not be end game for you tomorrow... you keep searching for something better all the time   Oh could be just me but lots of my friends who are into audio are like me in that sense... 

Have a listen to Soloist and other gears but for the price Soloist is a great performer.


----------



## Mansinthe86

xtiva said:


> Burson I believe definitely has wider soundstage then SA-1. Feel SA-1's soundstage to be a little too narrow for my liking. Tonality is very good, it has great detail and hint of warmth but soundstage is real let down from my liking, as I listen mostly classical music.
> 
> But with this narrower soundstage, sometime, vocal could shine as vocal can be more in front of you.
> 
> ...




Don't think I'm really one of the people that constantly look to upgrade. Sure it's "fun" to look at all the equipment Available and doing "research" but at the same time it's rather annoying as well.

I feel like the Singxer SA1 is a nice headphone amp.
At least I can't find a fault with it. 

I've read probably all the important reviews that are out there for the Jotenheim 2, topping A90, Gustard H16 and similar stuff in the price range of the Singxer SA1 and nothing looks like it's really better.

A second Singxer would be a option but feels like a wasted opportunity to mix and match equipment.

So I'm looking at the Burson or maybe a fluxlabs. 
But the Burson has a couple of advantages.. I could pay it in installments, local retailer, 5 years warranty.
Replaceable op-amps might be interesting.

But if Singxer where to announce a SA2 monster amp I would get that 😊


----------



## Alex May

Mansinthe86 said:


> But I saw plenty of reviews that mention that the Burson Soloist 3x performance would be a whole other beast. Especially when it comes to soundstage





xtiva said:


> Burson I believe definitely has wider soundstage then SA-1.


Actually, quite opposite. The Singxer SA-1 has wider soundstage than the Burson Soloist, although the Soloist has more depth and layering to the front, a hair more detail, and a more analytical sound albeit very dynamic. The Singxer SA-1 is smoother and a bit richer but not far behind in terms of detail. IDK, I wasn't impressed by the Soloist, especially given the price. Frankly, I had a hard time trying to distinguish it from my THX 789... Yes, there is a difference, layering, depth, dynamics and what not but... not so that I can justify the price.


----------



## Mansinthe86 (Jan 23, 2022)

Alex May said:


> Actually, quite opposite. The Singxer SA-1 has wider soundstage than the Burson Soloist, although the Soloist has more depth and layering to the front, a hair more detail, and a more analytical sound albeit very dynamic. The Singxer SA-1 is smoother and a bit richer but not far behind in terms of detail. IDK, I wasn't impressed by the Soloist, especially given the price. Frankly, I had a hard time trying to distinguish it from my THX 789... Yes, there is a difference, layering, depth, dynamics and what not but... not so that I can justify the price.



Some people say the Singxer SA1 doesn't sound that much better than a Smsl ho200 or a Schiit Magnius.

Or headphones.. they don't hear much of a difference from a iPad Vs a headphone amp. No difference between balanced and unbalanced.

Yet other people are blown away by the difference.

So often I'm torn between is one person blowing the difference out of proportion or is the other person just not able/willing to afford something better?

So I guess I have just go compare it myself 😉

The Burson is expensive and probably not that much better than something cheaper but it looks like a quality product. Expect the Singxer most of the topping and Smsl China amps just don't look that good to me. And seem to have their issues.


----------



## xtiva

Alex May said:


> Actually, quite opposite. The Singxer SA-1 has wider soundstage than the Burson Soloist, although the Soloist has more depth and layering to the front, a hair more detail, and a more analytical sound albeit very dynamic. The Singxer SA-1 is smoother and a bit richer but not far behind in terms of detail. IDK, I wasn't impressed by the Soloist, especially given the price. Frankly, I had a hard time trying to distinguish it from my THX 789... Yes, there is a difference, layering, depth, dynamics and what not but... not so that I can justify the price.



hey thanks... just read review from Passion for sound he agrees with you...  might have to get that Soloist again from my friend and listen to it again but little disapointed so far with SA-1, only had it on for less than 60 hours but hasn't got much better... actually it got a little warmer with more bass than when I first got it... soundstage has also widened a little but still too narrow & shallow for my liking... 



Mansinthe86 said:


> The Burson is expensive and probably not that much better than something cheaper but it looks like a quality product. Expect the Singxer most of the topping and Smsl China amps just don't look that good to me. And seem to have their issues.



It indded is well made, at least for amp itself can't say same for the remote control.. actually Singxer, Topping and SMSL are very well made and personally like these flick switch over button switch.. 

Anyway my quest for value for money headphone amp probably ends here for sometime..... 

Have ordered Sparkos Aries instead to compliment my main amp.... but was fun journey nevertheless


----------



## hottyson

Singxer? I haven't had any issues with yet. Seems well made.
Topping? This likely the worst brand out there. Topping is made like garbage and that is an insult to garbage.
SMSL? Not the best, but not the worst. My SP200 suffers from a poor quality 1/4 inch headphone jack, but everything else seems good.


----------



## dstarr3

Yeah, I've never heard a good thing about Topping build quality.

SMSL, I don't recall ever hearing anything about their build quality, one way or the other. I guess in this case, no news is probably good news. 

But yeah, no, Topping has a horrible reputation as far as build quality.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

Mansinthe86 said:


> Some people say the Singxer SA1 doesn't sound that much better than a Smsl ho200 or a Schiit Magnius.
> 
> Or headphones.. they don't hear much of a difference from a iPad Vs a headphone amp. No difference between balanced and unbalanced.
> 
> ...


Now take this for what it's worth as I am still getting around to getting my Singxer. I do have a lower Burson, the playmate 2 and while I do like it, I have found that throwing a set of SparkOS opamps in it made it so much better! I love it now, and probably the only reason I have held of a bit on the Singxer!

Cheers!!


----------



## Shoulon

Any recommendations for a higher watt sound signature SA-1? 

This amp is phenomenal on my Diana Abyss V2 but it requires me to be at 2/3 volume which I'm not a huge fan of.


----------



## ra990

Shoulon said:


> Any recommendations for a higher watt sound signature SA-1?
> 
> This amp is phenomenal on my Diana Abyss V2 but it requires me to be at 2/3 volume which I'm not a huge fan of.


The volume pot on this is not linear, most of the power is in that last 1/4 bit. Don't be afraid to max it out, it doesn't mean you need more power.


----------



## Mozbach

ra990 said:


> The volume pot on this is not linear, most of the power is in that last 1/4 bit. Don't be afraid to max it out, it doesn't mean you need more power.


Wondering how SA1 does with less sensitive Hifiman planars.. does the SA have headroom, given one is already at 3pm for reasonable listening levels


----------



## Qhao

Mozbach said:


> Wondering how SA1 does with less sensitive Hifiman planars.. does the SA have headroom, given one is already at 3pm for reasonable listening levels


With arya stealth in low gain low z i used it around 11 to 12


----------



## rjacko01

I have no issue with the hifiman he6se although I do have the volume knob quite high & high gain also. Depends on how high you like to listen really, there is a feeling that if you really wanted to max out you might run out of steam, but it would be far beyond comfortable listening for me..


----------



## dstarr3

I mean, I rock my AKG Sextett on my Singxer all the time. I balanced-modded my Sextett and I have to crank the volume up around 2 or 3 o'clock, but the Singxer can do it justice.


----------



## Voxata

xtiva said:


> hey thanks... just read review from Passion for sound he agrees with you...  might have to get that Soloist again from my friend and listen to it again but little disapointed so far with SA-1, only had it on for less than 60 hours but hasn't got much better... actually it got a little warmer with more bass than when I first got it... soundstage has also widened a little but still too narrow & shallow for my liking...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd recommend Jot2 if you are looking for a bit more of an engaging bottom end and some SET warmth. It's warmish, but the detail still shines through.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Shoulon said:


> Any recommendations for a higher watt sound signature SA-1?
> 
> This amp is phenomenal on my Diana Abyss V2 but it requires me to be at 2/3 volume which I'm not a huge fan of.



Your Dac should be able to push 4or 5 volt to Singxer. Which is means, in this case Singxer is a really powerful amp, and will produce more power needed for Diana V2. 

Non-linear volume control (which is great for IEM or sensitive headphone) make listening volume may around 1-3 o'clock for Diana V2 (if you like to listen loud), but actually Singxer still have plenty power left.


----------



## Lovebox

Does anyone have a recommendation for a worthwhile upgrade to the Singxer with similar characteristics?


----------



## ra990

Lovebox said:


> Does anyone have a recommendation for a worthwhile upgrade to the Singxer with similar characteristics?


What are you looking for? More power? Different sound signature?


----------



## dstarr3

I suppose the Ferrum Oor exists. I don't really see myself replacing this amp with anything similar until we start talking about that kind of money.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Mansinthe86 said:


> Yeah. The soloist 3x performance uses the muse chip from more expensive amplifiers. The conductor (amp+DAC) doesn't. The soloist has 8 watt. I believe the Singxer SA1 has 5.5-6 watt but is not pure class A.


Nope. Soloist 3x produce 8 watt at 16 ohm, while Singxer 6.4 watt at 32 ohm. Burson "only" push 4 watt at 32 ohm.


----------



## Mansinthe86

TheMiddleSky said:


> Nope. Soloist 3x produce 8 watt at 16 ohm, while Singxer 6.4 watt at 32 ohm. Burson "only" push 4 watt at 32 ohm.



Thanks. But wouldn't pure class A be more interesting for planar magnetic?  

The SA1 sounds great with my Aeon Noire but the SA1 is not pure class A. (Not that isn't strong enough).

So I guess I'm going to look at fluxlabs again 🤣


----------



## the1andonly

Pilotter said:


> Hi hottison. What do you mean by 'lower the noise floor' ? And what are inefficient headphones ? Are the Sundara inefficient ?


more or less gain increases power with increases volume, there is noise in all amps, in many you cannot hear it, by using high gain and raising all volume of audio playing it also raises the volume of the noise, since it raises the volume of everything indiscriminately. You may hear the noise on low gain and high gain, or just on high gain, or maybe on both not at all, but regardless the level of the noise although imperceptible or not, will be raised, just not necessarily in all cases to audible levels.


----------



## dstarr3

More directly, with a Sundara, I would try high gain first. If you hear a quiet hiss where there should be silence, switch it to low gain. 

Generally the low gain mode on this amp is only needed for IEMs, but maybe there are some super-efficient planars out there that also benefit. In my experience, when I got mine I just set it to high gain and forgot about it. I've thrown quite a few planars and IEMs at it by now and haven't yet heard the noise floor. I suspect you won't have any problems, but if you do, low gain mode is there.


----------



## Friskyseal

dstarr3 said:


> More directly, with a Sundara, I would try high gain first. If you hear a quiet hiss where there should be silence, switch it to low gain.
> 
> Generally the low gain mode on this amp is only needed for IEMs, but maybe there are some super-efficient planars out there that also benefit. In my experience, when I got mine I just set it to high gain and forgot about it. I've thrown quite a few planars and IEMs at it by now and haven't yet heard the noise floor. I suspect you won't have any problems, but if you do, low gain mode is there.



Wow, I couldn't disagree with this more. On low gain running fully balanced I can hardly get past 9:30 on this amp (Focals) before it gets too loud. Running the Sennheiser HD600 series single ended (I prefer SE for those), I have a very comfortable full range of volume where ~10:30 is soft but enjoyable and ~12:30 is loud. Some tracks require more but I have never pushed past 2 on this amp, and everybody says most of the power is actually beyond that.

Protect your hearing!


----------



## dstarr3 (Jan 31, 2022)

Friskyseal said:


> Wow, I couldn't disagree with this more. On low gain running fully balanced I can hardly get past 9:30 on this amp (Focals) before it gets too loud. Running the Sennheiser HD600 series single ended (I prefer SE for those), I have a very comfortable full range of volume where ~10:30 is soft but enjoyable and ~12:30 is loud. Some tracks require more but I have never pushed past 2 on this amp, and everybody says most of the power is actually beyond that.
> 
> Protect your hearing!


I'm not talking about overall volume, I'm talking about hearing the hiss from the noise floor. Even on planars and IEMs, on high gain, I've never turned the amp up loud enough to hear the noise floor. So even on high gain, the noise floor should be low enough to not be audible on most gear. But if it is audible on high gain with some particularly super-sensitive gear, low gain mode can be used instead.

In context, the question I was originally responding to was about what another poster meant by noise floor and if it'd be a problem with the Sundara. My point was, even in high gain, most likely not. But if so, low gain is an option.


----------



## JaquesGelee

Mansinthe86 said:


> Thanks. But wouldn't pure class A be more interesting for planar magnetic?
> 
> The SA1 sounds great with my Aeon Noire but the SA1 is not pure class A. (Not that isn't strong enough).
> 
> So I guess I'm going to look at fluxlabs again 🤣


That's exactly the point, not only to throw numbers...


----------



## Lovebox

ra990 said:


> What are you looking for? More power? Different sound signature?


Looking for something more neutral


----------



## Friskyseal

Lovebox said:


> Looking for something more neutral



Have you tried the DC jumper mod? With my unit, after trying the mod, the amp sounds rather dull (comparatively) without it. The treble gets more prominent and the overall sound is livelier. It still retains its smoothness but just gets a pinch or two more neutral.


----------



## the1andonly

Friskyseal said:


> Have you tried the DC jumper mod? With my unit, after trying the mod, the amp sounds rather dull (comparatively) without it. The treble gets more prominent and the overall sound is livelier. It still retains its smoothness but just gets a pinch or two more neutral.


messed up hard one day, someone was selling with the mod (reversed, but disclosed it was done) for $350.... was dumb enough to send them a offer instead of just buy, still wanna try this amp but I doubt it will beat the HDV 820, might give the Oppo HA-1 a run for it's money and beat all my other amp and dac/amps.... still I know I would probably strongly prefer it, but  I am running out of dang desk space, still buying an amp only is better than buying another dac/amp and I am maxed out on all the portable dac/amp units I want (iFi BL/Mojo)...

buying the next cheap modded one I see


----------



## dangusyra

Is there anyone here who uses SA-1 connected to RME ADI-2? Could you please share what ref level and volume settings you set on ADI2?
My volume locked at 0bB and ref level at +13dBu. Not sure if it is best option..


----------



## quawn0418

dangusyra said:


> Is there anyone here who uses SA-1 connected to RME ADI-2? Could you please share what ref level and volume settings you set on ADI2?
> My volume locked at 0bB and ref level at +13dBu. Not sure if it is best option..


I set mines to +7, but anything under 0db should be fine, the +13 setting is very high output though, you might want to not use it unless you know it’s safe or absolutely have to, in most cases you don’t need it.


----------



## dangusyra

quawn0418 said:


> I set mines to +7, but anything under 0db should be fine, the +13 setting is very high output though, you might want to not use it unless you know it’s safe or absolutely have to, in most cases you don’t need it.


Thank you. And Volume at 0dB?


----------



## quawn0418

dangusyra said:


> Thank you. And Volume at 0dB?


0db is ok, just be sure to always lower it if your meters say your clipping…the EQ can sometimes boost the signal into clipping, i like to add some low end, so when i do i have to bring the volume down a bit.


----------



## Lovebox

Friskyseal said:


> Have you tried the DC jumper mod? With my unit, after trying the mod, the amp sounds rather dull (comparatively) without it. The treble gets more prominent and the overall sound is livelier. It still retains its smoothness but just gets a pinch or two more neutral.


I didnt try it yet, dont want to wipe the warranty


----------



## dangusyra

I'm running my headphones on Hi gain at ~11 a clock and on Low gain at ~3 a clock. Do you recommend to stay on Hi gain or it is worth to switch to Low gain? If it makes any sense at all.. Thank you.


----------



## Mansinthe86

dangusyra said:


> I'm running my headphones on Hi gain at ~11 a clock and on Low gain at ~3 a clock. Do you recommend to stay on Hi gain or it is worth to switch to Low gain? If it makes any sense at all.. Thank you.


High gain should increase the noise floor. But as long as you are not using IEMs that's probably not going to be a issue 

Im running my SA1 in high gain as well. Even though I could run both my headphones in low gain.


----------



## RayMets1

Does anyone here have there Singxer SA-1 connected to the Matrix Mini I Pro 3 as the Dac?
If so can you explain the sound as opposed to the Matrix Mini alone? (Matrix Mini is a Dac/Amp/Streamer)


----------



## Lovebox

dangusyra said:


> I'm running my headphones on Hi gain at ~11 a clock and on Low gain at ~3 a clock. Do you recommend to stay on Hi gain or it is worth to switch to Low gain? If it makes any sense at all.. Thank you.


I tested both gain options on different cans (Rögnir, Atticus, Aeolus, Verum, Sundara) and for me the high gain option sounds much livelier and more dynamic. On low gain it feels more laid back, which I don't prefer that much for my music preferences. Family members have reported similar experiences. In that respect, I would rather go for a preferred signature, since there should be enough headroom even at 3 o'clock.


----------



## Muataz

IZONE said:


> Dear confused SA-1 owners. The reason we have so much range in the volume knob is that even on high gain there is only 11db gain. Other amps like the A90 or Schiit Jot2 amps have more of gain (15.5db, 18db), but do not confuse gain for power. Voltage is not current and current is not voltage (although linked at the hip). SA-1 is a powerful amp because it has lots of current on tap, do not be afraid to turn the knob to near max to get the volume you want. If you are still not getting enough gain please increase the gain of your source. Normally sources will be 2V for single or 4V for balanced but you can increase it as needed on some DACs like Chord products or if you just want to go super loud just get the A90  The only headphone in my collection where I'm near the max are Susvaras for SA-1, for the others it's near 12 to 2pm depending on the music's dynamic range


some people have anxiety turning volume to max. The SA-1 has no issue at ALL.


----------



## hottyson (Feb 14, 2022)

IZONE said:


> Dear confused SA-1 owners. The reason we have so much range in the volume knob is that even on high gain there is only 11db gain. Other amps like the A90 or Schiit Jot2 amps have more of gain (15.5db, 18db), but do not confuse gain for power. Voltage is not current and current is not voltage (although linked at the hip). SA-1 is a powerful amp because it has lots of current on tap, do not be afraid to turn the knob to near max to get the volume you want. If you are still not getting enough gain please increase the gain of your source. Normally sources will be 2V for single or 4V for balanced but you can increase it as needed on some DACs like Chord products or if you just want to go super loud just get the A90  The only headphone in my collection where I'm near the max are Susvaras for SA-1, for the others it's near 12 to 2pm depending on the music's dynamic range


To begin with, in one sentence he states, "just get the A90." If anyone is recommending a Topping product, I would be wary of following any of their advice. Topping is nothing more than poorly pieced together garbage.
.
Furthermore, *sound quality wise*, I would estimate that perhaps 90% of my headphone collection pair better with my Schiit Jotunheim 2 than my Singxer SA-1. Yes, magic can happen once you find synergy with the right headphone and the Singxer SA-1 such as with my Fostex T50RP, Fostex T60RP, Beyerdynamic DT770, Beyerdynamic DT880, Beyerdynamic DT990, Marantz MPH-2 clone, Sony MDR-CD780, M1570 and half of my Grados. However, the majority of the rest of my collection mostly favor pairing with the Schiit Jotunheim 2. Keep in mind that each headphone of my collection is under $1,200 and your mileage may vary on the summit-fi level headphones.
.
*Design and features* are similar but I prefer the Singxer SA-1 over the Jotunheim for the sealed design not needing vents and cool operation. The switch for speaker/headphone is nice. The main drawback for some but not me is the SA-1 gain switches being on the bottom. If you leave them on high like me it is not a problem.


----------



## the1andonly (Feb 14, 2022)

hottyson said:


> To begin with, in one sentence he states, "just get the A90." If anyone is recommending a Topping product, I would be wary of following any of their advice. Topping is nothing more than poorly pieced together garbage.
> .
> Furthermore, *sound quality wise*, I would estimate that perhaps 90% of my headphone collection pair better with my Schiit Jotunheim 2 than my Singxer SA-1. Yes, magic can happen once you find synergy with the right headphone and the Singxer SA-1 such as with my Fostex T60RP, Beyerdynamic DT770, Beyerdynamic DT880, Beyerdynamic DT990, Marantz MPH-2 clone, Sony MDR-CD780, M1570 and half of my Grados. However, the majority of the rest of my collection mostly favor pairing with the Schiit Jotunheim 2. *Keep in mind that each headphone of my collection is under $1,200 and your mileage may vary on the summit-fi level headphones.*
> .
> *Design and features* are similar but I prefer the Singxer SA-1 over the Jotunheim for the sealed design not needing vents and cool operation. The switch for speaker/headphone is nice. The main drawback for some but not me is the SA-1 gain switches being on the bottom. If you leave them on high like me it is not a problem.


Well said and I have to agree... The sound of a topping is not anything I want in my house, as far as Summit-Fi that does sometimes react strangely, on my new 2022 LCD-3F they actually sound is a bit harsh on my Oppo HA-1 which is crazy because both my DEKFEN Ananda and HD800 do not sound harsh on that because it's not a harsh amp, but do on the HDV 820! However the LCD-3F sounds smooth on the HDV 820 despite being harsh on the smooth Oppo!

I would take a Singxer DA-1 over a topping A90 any day! Which is doing a disservice because I would not take a Topping A90 or D90 at all unless I was explicitly allowed to sell them!

You also have to factor in the company's product literally fried a small number of people's headphones due to bad QC and instead of forking probably $10k or less to do the right thing they left them out in the cold knowing people like me would make that knowledge the final straw to know I will never, EVER, buy a topping product. I stand with the consumers who got screwed, and not with a company who refuses to take responsibility, any value that might be had there even if I loved the sound signature is offset by the worrying I would do wondering if I will get incur a heavy loss!

For others the sound signature and the admittedly very very small risk doesn't dissuade them and is superior to other brands, if that's you then good for you, but it's not for me.


----------



## ra990 (Feb 15, 2022)

I did the jumper mod this morning and have been listening all day. Just want to report nothing has blown up or anything. I actually think I hear a slight improvement in transparency, but there's no way for me to A/B it. What a fantastic little amp this is, amazing for the price.


----------



## Lovebox

Tazyn said:


> It is unlikely that the noise is caused by overheating. It was very hot for me this summer. The amplifier was heating up very much, it was not comfortable to hold your hand (65 degrees or higher). There was no noise. If there is noise again, try plugging another amplifier into the same outlet. If the noise is repeated on another amplifier, it means that the problem is unstable electrical power supply of the network.


Any method to "stabilize" it ?


----------



## fattycheesebeef

The heat is something I'm on the fence on. I know it shouldn't be a deciding factor but I live in a warm country and can't have it joining the dark side to further increase the warmth of my room XD


----------



## Mansinthe86

fattycheesebeef said:


> The heat is something I'm on the fence on. I know it shouldn't be a deciding factor but I live in a warm country and can't have it joining the dark side to further increase the warmth of my room XD


The Singxer doesn't really get warm.


----------



## TheRealDz

fattycheesebeef said:


> The heat is something I'm on the fence on. I know it shouldn't be a deciding factor but I live in a warm country and can't have it joining the dark side to further increase the warmth of my room XD


Mine does not get warm at all either.


----------



## Qhao

Mansinthe86 said:


> The Singxer doesn't really get warm.


Mine too


----------



## Hifiearspeakers

Mine doesn’t either.


----------



## yaps66

Mine does but not to an extent that bothers me.  I always thought all Class A amps got somewhat warm?


----------



## kalibur

I live in summer temperatures all year round and it doesn’t get too hot nor does it heat up the room


----------



## fattycheesebeef

Wow, looks like a resounding no to it being warm. Very tempting now~


----------



## kalibur

added a gold knob for better grip and contrast


----------



## yaps66

kalibur said:


> added a gold knob for better grip and contrast


Cool!   Nice pairing with the gold cables!!  What do you have at the end?  FDX?!


----------



## kalibur

yaps66 said:


> Cool!   Nice pairing with the gold cables!!  What do you have at the end?  FDX?!


 it’s connected to a HD650 😁


----------



## fattycheesebeef

kalibur said:


> it’s connected to a HD650 😁



Nice. I'm using HD650 too, what cable is that?


----------



## kalibur

fattycheesebeef said:


> Nice. I'm using HD650 too, what cable is that?


it’s a 7N OCC cable from aliexpress 

US $26.88 4％ Off | LN006730 16 Core 99％ 7N OCC Earphone Cable For Sennheiser HD580 HD600 HD650 HDxxx HD660S HD58x HD6xx https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNM7AhE


----------



## Mansinthe86

yaps66 said:


> Mine does but not to an extent that bothers me.  I always thought all Class A amps got somewhat warm?


The Singxer is not a real class A amp. Once you use a bit more power in high gain it switches to A/B


----------



## fattycheesebeef

Mansinthe86 said:


> The Singxer is not a real class A amp. Once you use a bit more power in high gain it switches to A/B



In other words, it remains a B class if extra power is not needed?


----------



## Mansinthe86

fattycheesebeef said:


> In other words, it remains a B class if extra power is not needed?


Class A.


----------



## deafenears

fattycheesebeef said:


> In other words, it remains a B class if extra power is not needed?


From one of the designers here:

_SA-1's Class A model:
Balanced 16 ohm load: below 500mw;
Balanced 32 ohm load: below 1000mw;
Balanced load of 68 ohms: below 3000mw;
Balance the load above 68 ohms: almost all power is Class A;_

So operates in class A mode per the above. Anything over and it switches to class B.


----------



## MalinYamato

Did the DC mod after checking the DC outputs of my DAC which was less than 5mv.
Yes, the mod improved the sound.


----------



## nigel801

Hi,
Anyone can share their experience of using HE6SE V2 with Singxer SA1 compared to Topping A90 if both can drive the He6se to it's full potential. 
Thanks


----------



## ostewart

nigel801 said:


> Hi,
> Anyone can share their experience of using HE6SE V2 with Singxer SA1 compared to Topping A90 if both can drive the He6se to it's full potential.
> Thanks



From my SA-1 review 

"Using the SA-1 with the HE6SE it is incredibly tight and snappy sounding, controlling the drivers with precision. Yet it isn’t quite as analytical sounding as the A90, this isn’t to say it’s particularly coloured but it sounds a little warmer with a slightly more laid back treble presentation."

Personally both amps sounded excellent with the HE6SE - but I would probably pick the SA-1 to live with long term


----------



## nigel801

ostewart said:


> From my SA-1 review
> 
> "Using the SA-1 with the HE6SE it is incredibly tight and snappy sounding, controlling the drivers with precision. Yet it isn’t quite as analytical sounding as the A90, this isn’t to say it’s particularly coloured but it sounds a little warmer with a slightly more laid back treble presentation."
> 
> Personally both amps sounded excellent with the HE6SE - but I would probably pick the SA-1 to live with long term


Thanks for your feedback, have you done grill mod for he6se V2 if yes is there a EU seller where I can buy the honeycomb grill.


----------



## ostewart

nigel801 said:


> Thanks for your feedback, have you done grill mod for he6se V2 if yes is there a EU seller where I can buy the honeycomb grill.



I didn't unfortunately - and wouldn't know for any sellers


----------



## hottyson (Feb 21, 2022)

nigel801 said:


> Hi,
> Anyone can share their experience of using HE6SE V2 with Singxer SA1 compared to Topping A90 if both can drive the He6se to it's full potential.
> Thanks


I can't compare it to the Topping A90 since I don't purchase anything Topping as they are garbage.

However, I did compare the Singxer SA-1 with about twenty amplifiers side by side with the HE6SE V2. The Singxer did not pair well compared to many of the other amps and placed seventh. I found the Singxer was muffled, had a stifled soundstage, poor dynamics compared to the amps that paired better:
1. Questyle CMA Twelve - Pure, clear sound
2. Schiit Jotunheim 2 - Fantastic soundstage and three dimensional envelopment
3. Schiit Jotunheim 1
4. Massdrop Liquid Carbon X + SDAC - Slight reduce soundstage/image, good tonality, loss of resolution and texture
5, Beyerdynamic A20 - Volume maxes out, lacks dynamic slam, overly smooth, wide soundstage
6. Headamp Gilmore Lite MK2 - Highs clearer but too much treble energy
7. SINGXER SA-1 - Muffled, stifled soundstage, Less dynamic


----------



## Stompy

I've been using my SA-1 for 7 months now as my first Headphone Amp and it's been great, but my neck isn't doing so great so I'm moving over to speakers. Would it work to run my SA-1 as a preamp and then into a power amp which then goes into the speakers? The speakers in question are a pair of Dynaudio Contour 1.3 mk2. I'm super new to speakers after only having used headphones since forever, hence me asking on head-fi


----------



## hottyson

Stompy said:


> I've been using my SA-1 for 7 months now as my first Headphone Amp and it's been great, but my neck isn't doing so great so I'm moving over to speakers. Would it work to run my SA-1 as a preamp and then into a power amp which then goes into the speakers? The speakers in question are a pair of Dynaudio Contour 1.3 mk2. I'm super new to speakers after only having used headphones since forever, hence me asking on head-fi


The Singxer SA-1 excels as a preamp in my office system as it does not have vent holes in the top to collect things that would fall in, and it has both RCA and XLR preamp outputs. I have run the RCA output to my subwoofer and the XLR output to powered Emotiva studio monitors with quite satisfying results.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

deafenears said:


> From one of the designers here:
> 
> _SA-1's Class A model:
> Balanced 16 ohm load: below 500mw;
> ...



Just add information about this statement to people that may think it's so limited to use Class A part on Singxer: 

Audeze LCD-X, 20 ohm, 103 db sensitivity. Singxer will push 130dB with 500mW power, that's the limit of LCD-X's capability based on Audeze web. 

Hifiman Arya Stealth Magnet, with 32 ohm and sensitivity 94 dB, Singxer will push 124dB with 1000mW of power. Which may explode your eardrum. 

If your headphone even easier to drive than both headphones above or more than 68 ohm impedance, basically Singxer is pure Class A.


----------



## TheRealDz

hottyson said:


> I can't compare it to the Topping A90 since I don't purchase anything Topping as they are garbage.
> 
> However, I did compare the Singxer SA-1 with about twenty amplifiers side by side with the HE6SE V2. The Singxer did not pair well compared to many of the other amps and placed seventh. I found the Singxer was muffled, had a stifled soundstage, poor dynamics compared to the amps that paired better:
> 1. Questyle CMA Twelve - Pure, clear sound
> ...


While I agree with your assessment of the A90 (I gave it a few months, but ultimately hated it), I disagree with your take on the Jot2 and Liquid Carbon after owning both;  they are fine amps for the price, but are outclassed in all regards by the Singxer.  Specifically, I would not call it at all muffled, and I think soundstaging is one of its best traits. 

Just another man's opinion...


----------



## hottyson

TheRealDz said:


> While I agree with your assessment of the A90 (I gave it a few months, but ultimately hated it), I disagree with your take on the Jot2 and Liquid Carbon after owning both;  they are fine amps for the price, but are outclassed in all regards by the Singxer.  Specifically, I would not call it at all muffled, and I think soundstaging is one of its best traits.
> 
> Just another man's opinion...


I did NOT state the the Singxer SA-1 outclasses the Jotunheim 2 nor the Liquid Carbon. I stated that the Singxer SA-1 is only outclassed in sound quality by those two amplifiers *when pairing with the Hifiman HE6SE V2. *

This Singxer SA-1 out classes both of those amps when paired with SOME headphones such as the Monolith M1570, Fostex T50RP, Fostex T60RP, Beyerdynamic DT770, Beyerdynamic DT880, Beyerdynamic DT990, Marantz MPH-2 clone, Sony MDR-CD780. It all depends on the headphone that you are pairing the amplifiers with and the synergy they have together.


----------



## orangecrescent

About DC mod. I just tried, very easy to do, generic jumper caps, didn't blow up anything, and everything still functions with no issue. But I ultimately have to undo the mod. Reason is that I have an Arya v2, the mod certainly brings out more clarity and transparency but at the same time it also adds more noticeable sssss sound. The vocals becomes more forward thus it negates a very nice quality of the Arya v2. Instruments and classical are fine though with the mod for its better imaging. The Sundara generally works well with the mod. My observation is, whether the mod is desirable or not depends on the headphone and the musical genre. YMMV.


----------



## Cisco150

Hi guys i have the Hifiman Ananda and Dac SMSL VMV D1SE with the SP200 but looking at a different amp looking at the Topping a30pro or this Singxer-SA1. what would you think be good match i would like more bass out of my Anandas and not as harsh highs


----------



## Alex May

Cisco150 said:


> Hi guys i have the Hifiman Ananda and Dac SMSL VMV D1SE with the SP200 but looking at a different amp looking at the Topping a30pro or this Singxer-SA1. what would you think be good match i would like more bass out of my Anandas and not as harsh highs


NO other amp will give you more bass or change the frequency response in any way unless it's a broken unit or a heavy tube amp specifically developed to change the FR and add harmonics i.e. distortion. A good amp is always developed such that it doesn't interfere with the sound. The best amp is the one that adds nothing to the signal but amplifies it as clean as possible (maybe adding some character but those features I'll explain in the next paragraph). If you think that changing amps will improve your headphones, you've been seriously mislead. BTW Ananda does not have harsh highs. If you hear them as harsh, they will absolutely be harsh in any situation on any amp with these headphones. That's how you hear, 'cause every person hears differently. Yes, bass is not the strongest feature of these headphones, but man, use EQ for that matter - it's FREE! No amp will give you more bass, including the SA-1, unless there is a switch like the XBass on the iFi Zen Can.

All the nuances we are talking about here in regards to the sound signatures of amplifiers are really minute and can be appreciated by trained ears and music connoisseurs, like trailing ends of tones, micro- and macro dynamics, soundstage width and depth, impact, separation, and so on. But even if we talk about dynamics, simply changing your headphones will give you 99% difference compared to what can be achieved by changing an amplifier.

Of course, you can absolutely disagree with a random dude on a forum who tries to ruin your faith in amplifiers but here is a similar view from Crinacle who, I believe, is not the least person in the audio community:


----------



## Arniesb

Alex May said:


> NO other amp will give you more bass or change the frequency response in any way unless it's a broken unit or a heavy tube amp specifically developed to change the FR and add harmonics i.e. distortion. A good amp is always developed such that it doesn't interfere with the sound. The best amp is the one that adds nothing to the signal but amplifies it as clean as possible (maybe adding some character but those features I'll explain in the next paragraph). If you think that changing amps will improve your headphones, you've been seriously mislead. BTW Ananda does not have harsh highs. If you hear them as harsh, they will absolutely be harsh in any situation on any amp with these headphones. That's how you hear, 'cause every person hears differently. Yes, bass is not the strongest feature of these headphones, but man, use EQ for that matter - it's FREE! No amp will give you more bass, including the SA-1, unless there is a switch like the XBass on the iFi Zen Can.
> 
> All the nuances we are talking about here in regards to the sound signatures of amplifiers are really minute and can be appreciated by trained ears and music connoisseurs, like trailing ends of tones, micro- and macro dynamics, soundstage width and depth, impact, separation, and so on. But even if we talk about dynamics, simply changing your headphones will give you 99% difference compared to what can be achieved by changing an amplifier.
> 
> Of course, you can absolutely disagree with a random dude on a forum who tries to ruin your faith in amplifiers but here is a similar view from Crinacle who, I believe, is not the least person in the audio community:



Yes, but people hate accurate amps or dacs cause they are exposing many flaws of their belowed headphones! Thats why many like tubes amps, they are softening the highs, slowing down the pace and you get fuller sound, but not accurate represantation of headphones or speakers.


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## hottyson (Mar 3, 2022)

Cisco150 said:


> Hi guys i have the Hifiman Ananda and Dac SMSL VMV D1SE with the SP200 but looking at a different amp looking at the Topping a30pro or this Singxer-SA1. what would you think be good match i would like more bass out of my Anandas and not as harsh highs


I can't comment on anything Topping because I stay far away from anything made by them as they make horrible products with defects.

Each of my headphones pairs with different amps with different results and unique amp order of preference. I do own both the Hifiman Ananda and the SMSL SP200. I do not like to pair those two together as the perceived soundstage becomes too narrow.

Of my amps, the ones that pair better with Ananda are in this order:

RebelAmp (Unavailable new due to war) Clear distant sound stage, longer time enjoyed listening with. This pair gains the sense of open space that creates a smooth enveloping stage, the center stage images from all of an arc above the stage. Highs are just dreamy!
SCHIIT JOTUNHEIM 2 $400 Accentuated highs instead of glaring highs initially makes me pick this as first place, clear near stage presence but the middle of the stage images under the stage sort of in a v-shape.
SCHIIT JOTUNHEIM ($300 used) Serious slam even guitars.
Massdrop Liquid Carbon X + SDAC $380 sacrifices slightly soundstage and image, good tonality
BEYERDYNAMIC A20 ($300 used) volume maxes out lacks dynamic slam, too smooth for some, wide
HEADAMP GILMORE LITE MK2 $800 Highs a bit piercing.
SINGXER SA-1 $540 Too smooth lacking slam for my rock tracks.


----------



## nigel801 (Mar 3, 2022)

After several hours of comparison listening to same tracks again and again I realisd how good Topping A90 is and with authority can handle the HE6SE V2, just look at the volume level on both Singxer and A90 I doubt if Singxer is true class A.
Detail retrieval and getting every little nuances is not a cup of tea for Singxer but it's a great enjoyable Amp where notes linger around a little longer and gives a bit euphoric sounds. 
So if you have bit brighter sounding headphone with easy to drive use case then Singxer is definitely a good recommendation. Some call it a poor mens GSX mini I fully concur that.


----------



## Mansinthe86

nigel801 said:


> After several hours of comparison listening to same tracks again and again I realisd how good Topping A90 is and with authority can handle the HE6SE V2, just look at the volume level on both Singxer and A90 I doubt if Singxer is true class A.
> Detail retrieval and getting every little nuances is not a cup of tea for Singxer but it's a great enjoyable Amp where notes linger around a little longer and gives a bit euphoric sounds.
> So if you have bit brighter sounding headphone with easy to drive use case then Singxer is definitely a good recommendation. Some call it a poor mens GSX mini I fully concur that.




Pretty sure most people are aware that the SA1 is only class A up to a certain level. 😉


----------



## deafenears

nigel801 said:


> After several hours of comparison listening to same tracks again and again I realisd how good Topping A90 is and with authority can handle the HE6SE V2, just look at the volume level on both Singxer and A90 *I doubt if Singxer is true class A*.





Mansinthe86 said:


> Pretty sure most people are aware that the SA1 is only class A up to a certain level. 😉



Yeah, here... except, I meant class AB and not class B:


deafenears said:


> From one of the designers here:
> 
> _SA-1's Class A model:
> Balanced 16 ohm load: below 500mw;
> ...


That's class AB!


----------



## fattycheesebeef

nigel801 said:


> After several hours of comparison listening to same tracks again and again I realisd how good Topping A90 is and with authority can handle the HE6SE V2, just look at the volume level on both Singxer and A90 I doubt if Singxer is true class A.
> Detail retrieval and getting every little nuances is not a cup of tea for Singxer but it's a great enjoyable Amp where notes linger around a little longer and gives a bit euphoric sounds.
> So if you have bit brighter sounding headphone with easy to drive use case then Singxer is definitely a good recommendation. Some call it a poor mens GSX mini I fully concur that.



Does the Topping A90 runs hot? How's the heat compared to SA-1?


----------



## Cisco150

Thanks, everyone for the recommendation ill try an eq to see how it goes.


----------



## Cisco150

Alex May said:


> NO other amp will give you more bass or change the frequency response in any way unless it's a broken unit or a heavy tube amp specifically developed to change the FR and add harmonics i.e. distortion. A good amp is always developed such that it doesn't interfere with the sound. The best amp is the one that adds nothing to the signal but amplifies it as clean as possible (maybe adding some character but those features I'll explain in the next paragraph). If you think that changing amps will improve your headphones, you've been seriously mislead. BTW Ananda does not have harsh highs. If you hear them as harsh, they will absolutely be harsh in any situation on any amp with these headphones. That's how you hear, 'cause every person hears differently. Yes, bass is not the strongest feature of these headphones, but man, use EQ for that matter - it's FREE! No amp will give you more bass, including the SA-1, unless there is a switch like the XBass on the iFi Zen Can.
> 
> All the nuances we are talking about here in regards to the sound signatures of amplifiers are really minute and can be appreciated by trained ears and music connoisseurs, like trailing ends of tones, micro- and macro dynamics, soundstage width and depth, impact, separation, and so on. But even if we talk about dynamics, simply changing your headphones will give you 99% difference compared to what can be achieved by changing an amplifier.
> 
> Of course, you can absolutely disagree with a random dude on a forum who tries to ruin your faith in amplifiers but here is a similar view from Crinacle who, I believe, is not the least person in the audio community:



The SMSL SP200 I have is defective on the Balance side thru the xlr inputs it works in RCA mode. I tried crossing the xlr inputs to see if the problem moves to another channel but it stays in the right channel. So I'm returning it and probably getting it again or another Amp and ideas. I paid $140.00 USD for the SP400.


----------



## ostewart

nigel801 said:


> After several hours of comparison listening to same tracks again and again I realisd how good Topping A90 is and with authority can handle the HE6SE V2, just look at the volume level on both Singxer and A90 I doubt if Singxer is true class A.
> Detail retrieval and getting every little nuances is not a cup of tea for Singxer but it's a great enjoyable Amp where notes linger around a little longer and gives a bit euphoric sounds.
> So if you have bit brighter sounding headphone with easy to drive use case then Singxer is definitely a good recommendation. Some call it a poor mens GSX mini I fully concur that.



Is the SA-1 in high or low gain - also why have you got the High-Z output mode on when the HE6SE is low impedance?


----------



## nigel801

ostewart said:


> Is the SA-1 in high or low gain - also why have you got the High-Z output mode on when the HE6SE is low impedance?


I have the Singxer high gain all switches at bottom. I was trying LCD XC as well that's why it was left in hi-z


----------



## nigel801

fattycheesebeef said:


> Does the Topping A90 runs hot? How's the heat compared to SA-1?


A90 is cool as cucumber same for Singxer but not enough volume


----------



## ostewart

nigel801 said:


> I have the Singxer high gain all switches at bottom. I was trying LCD XC as well that's why it was left in hi-z



LCD-XC is even lower impedance... 

High-Z raises the output impedance to 11 Ohms

Keep it in Low-Z mode unless using 150 Ohm+ headphones IMO


----------



## NascentAP

nigel801 said:


> I have the Singxer high gain all switches at bottom. I was trying LCD XC as well that's why it was left in hi-z


If you're using all balanced connection throughout, I would check 1) whether you can increase the output voltage from your DAC and/or 2) check whether you have stuck membranes on your HE6V2. On my setup using Ares II>SA-1 (all balanced), the low gain gets plenty loud on the HE6V2 at around 4 o'clock and loud enough to cause damage at 5. And I'm not much of a quiet listener.

I believe several seasoned veterans of this hobby have chimed in to explain why people were experiencing wildly variable volume output from SA-1. It always seemed to boil down to connection (balanced vs SE) that can impact DAC output voltage (2V for SE vs 4V for balanced).


----------



## kfotheringham

NascentAP said:


> If you're using all balanced connection throughout, I would check 1) whether you can increase the output voltage from your DAC and/or 2) check whether you have stuck membranes on your HE6V2. On my setup using Ares II>SA-1 (all balanced), the low gain gets plenty loud on the HE6V2 at around 4 o'clock and loud enough to cause damage at 5. And I'm not much of a quiet listener.
> 
> I believe several seasoned veterans of this hobby have chimed in to explain why people were experiencing wildly variable volume output from SA-1. It always seemed to boil down to connection (balanced vs SE) that can impact DAC output voltage (2V for SE vs 4V for balanced).


Having read all the positive reviews of this amplifier, I went ahead and ordered it. I own the (controversial )  Verum One MkII headphones  - also Planer.

Regardless of high or low gain, this amplifier could not drive them properly. In my opinion, low gain ran out of volume pot as described by other headfi'ers above, and high gain sounded different - soundstage was wider but did not control the low end very well.

And what a hoot it was to return it via Amazon.


----------



## fattycheesebeef

What would be a good DAC pairing with SA-1?


----------



## deafenears

kfotheringham said:


> Regardless of high or low gain, this amplifier could not drive them properly. In my opinion, low gain ran out of volume pot as described by other headfi'ers above, and high gain sounded different - soundstage was wider but did not control the low end very well.


What's your source? Also single/RCA or balanced/XLR?


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## kfotheringham

deafenears said:


> What's your source? Also single/RCA or balanced/XLR?


Musician Draco Dac.

I should have stated  that I was driving the complete system single ended.

In comparison, I have a Naim clone headphone amplifier - SE only, that I can`t turn past 12 o'clock before it gets uncomfortably loud,.. with no issues controlling the bottom end..


----------



## Mansinthe86

kfotheringham said:


> Musician Draco Dac.
> 
> I should have stated  that I was driving the complete system single ended.
> 
> In comparison, I have a Naim clone headphone amplifier - SE only, that I can`t turn past 12 o'clock before it gets uncomfortably loud,.. with no issues controlling the bottom end..


Single ended you are only using half the amplifier. The SA-1 benefits greatly from balanced and 4v-5v output from the dac


----------



## hottyson

Mansinthe86 said:


> Single ended you are only using half the amplifier. The SA-1 benefits greatly from balanced and 4v-5v output from the dac


With my Singxer SA-1 the balanced HEADPHONE OUTPUT makes a great difference in getting the best performance out of headphones compared to the single ended HEADPHONE OUTPUT.
.
However, on the balanced XLR output of my DACs into the balanced XLR input of my Singxer SA-1 has very little discernable difference in performance compared to the non-balanced RCA output of my DACs into the RCA non-balanced RCA input of my Singxer SA-1. Actually, I prefer using non-balanced RCA input slightly over the balanced XLR input on the Singxer SA-1 due to the higher quality interconnects I have that are terminated with RCA.
.
In real world use, I have only gained a benefit of using balanced interconnects when I have run long cable runs in commercial spaces (like fifty feet of cable) where there was lots of electronic interference that would introduce noise into the signal. In my home, I run short under three feet length interconnects. There is no need for me to use balanced input of my Singxer SA-1. No performance gain for me and most likely no performance upgrade for most everyone in there home systems.


----------



## NascentAP

hottyson said:


> With my Singxer SA-1 the balanced HEADPHONE OUTPUT makes a great difference in getting the best performance out of headphones compared to the single ended HEADPHONE OUTPUT.
> .
> However, on the balanced XLR output of my DACs into the balanced XLR input of my Singxer SA-1 has very little discernable difference in performance compared to the non-balanced RCA output of my DACs into the RCA non-balanced RCA input of my Singxer SA-1. Actually, I prefer using non-balanced RCA input slightly over the balanced XLR input on the Singxer SA-1 due to the higher quality interconnects I have that are terminated with RCA.
> .
> In real world use, I have only gained a benefit of using balanced interconnects when I have run long cable runs in commercial spaces (like fifty feet of cable) where there was lots of electronic interference that would introduce noise into the signal. In my home, I run short under three feet length interconnects. There is no need for me to use balanced input of my Singxer SA-1. No performance gain for me and most likely no performance upgrade for most everyone in there home systems.


I should've specified that it matters for a DAC like Ares II. This is straight from their vendor's tech spec:

*Analog Output* 

RCA at 2.0Vrms, 625 Ω
XLR at 4.0Vrms, 1250 Ω
https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-ares-r2r-dac


----------



## kfotheringham (Mar 6, 2022)

Mansinthe86 said:


> Single ended you are only using half the amplifier. The SA-1 benefits greatly from balanced and 4v-5v output from the dac


Completely understand, and I genuinely  accept the merits of the SA-1. Very early in this thread based on headfi'ers comments, it was clear that balanced was the way to go with this amplifier. My initial reply was to concur with that ethos, having experienced 1st hand what happens using (my) planar headphones in single ended mode with the SA-1 (although I failed to mentioned SE in my 1st post..my apologies).

Would you believe, I actually ordered the balanced XLR cables, and the 4-pole XLR headphone socket to convert my headphone cable to complete the fully balanced route (both are still in their respective  packets in a drawer now).

But the point I wanted to make with my personal set-up, was that with a different headphone amplifier (Naim clone) -  single ended mode all the way through (which cost $150 from aliexpress) is that I don`t "think " I am missing anything single ended. I could fire the typical clichés of "impactful, "articulate" "wide soundstage" , "subtle", "great controlled low end" at this, and it would be true, particularly with these planars (in fact absolute) , but the amplifier I am using now cost one third of the SA-1 and in single ended mode all the way, it drives Planar headphones to deafening levels that are ultimately enjoyable. YMMV

I'm Scottish, hence I sent it back - it was a no brainer.


----------



## Mansinthe86

kfotheringham said:


> Completely understand, and I genuinely  accept the merits of the SA-1. Very early in this thread based on headfi'ers comments, it was clear that balanced was the way to go with this amplifier. My initial reply was to concur with that ethos, having experienced 1st hand what happens using (my) planar headphones in single ended mode with the SA-1 (although I failed to mentioned SE in my 1st post..my apologies).
> 
> Would you believe, I actually ordered the balanced XLR cables, and the 4-pole XLR headphone socket to convert my headphone cable to complete the fully balanced route (both are still in their perspective packets in a drawer now).
> 
> ...



Makes sense 😉
For me the SA-1 has been great with both my headphones. 
And with my aeon 2 noire I'm most of the time only at 12 o'clock in high gain.

All the reviews I have been reading mentions how the SA1 benefits from a DAC with 4v, better 5v output. 
And your Draco DAC has 2v (I think I saw measurements of even less).

That's just something to consider before purchasing hardware, I guess. 

If there is a cheaper amp out there that does the job, that's great.  

Would be interesting to know how the Schiit jotenheim 2 would work with your headphones.


----------



## Cisco150 (Mar 7, 2022)

Mansinthe86 said:


> Makes sense 😉
> For me the SA-1 has been great with both my headphones.
> And with my aeon 2 noire I'm most of the time only at 12 o'clock in high gain.
> 
> ...


Same looking to replace my broken SP200, looking at the Singxer SA-1 or the  Schiit jotenheim 2


----------



## deafenears

hottyson said:


> However, on the balanced XLR output of my DACs into the balanced XLR input of my Singxer SA-1 has very little discernable difference in performance compared to the non-balanced RCA output of my DACs into the RCA non-balanced RCA input of my Singxer SA-1. Actually, I prefer using non-balanced RCA input slightly over the balanced XLR input on the Singxer SA-1 due to the higher quality interconnects I have that are terminated with RCA.


I think it's important to mention which DAC here as well. Mainly, was it designed with balanced output in mind or was the XLR connectors just added for convenience? Also, does it output double that from XLR as RCA?

Finally, is the amp designed for balanced or single-ended inputs? The Singxer SA-1 is. Here's something from one of the SA-1 designers:
_
SA-1 headphone amplifier gains:
1. Single-ended input, single-ended output: low gain is 0db, high gain is 11db;
2. Single-ended input, balanced output: low gain is 6db, high gain is 17db;
3. Balanced input, single-ended output: low gain is -6db, high gain is 5db;
4. Balanced input, balanced output: low gain is 0db, high gain is 11db;

...

At the front stage output, the single-ended impedance is 22.5 ohms, and the balanced impedance is 45 ohms.

Usage suggestions and precautions:
1. Based on the SA-1 is an amp with a fully balanced design concept, it has made the greatest optimization for total balance. Therefore, the recommended way to use it is: balanced input and balanced output, followed by single-ended input and balanced output.
2. If you need to use single-ended, it is recommended to use single-ended input; it is not recommended to use balanced input, single-ended output.
3. For high-sensitive headphones such as earplugs, high gain mode is not recommended._

Ultimately, it's the complete chain and not just SE or balanced on component X vs. component Y, IMO.


----------



## Cisco150 (Mar 7, 2022)

quawn0418 said:


> DHL for the win today, will be listening for the next hour or so...sounds really really good so far, compared to the thx amps it’s less clean for sure, but it’s more full and just a bit more excellent overall


Did you end up keeping the SA1. Just got the VMV D1SE and using it with the SP200 but the XLR on the SP200 is broken and need a new amp. I'm looking at the SA1 or even the JOTUNHEIM 2 I have the Hifiman Ananda. What would you think would sound great. And i hope i made a good choice for the D1SE.


----------



## quawn0418

Cisco150 said:


> Did you end up keeping the SA1. Just got the VMV D1SE and using it with the SP200 but the XLR on the SP200 is broken and need a new amp. I'm looking at the SA1 or the A30PRO or even the JOTUNHEIM 2 I have the Hifiman Ananda. What would you think would sound great. And i hope i made a good choice for the D1SE.


Kept it for a year, sold it yesterday actually, and sold the ADI 2 about a week ago, was thinking about keeping the SA-1, but Fiio has something special with the k9 pro, that’s all I’ve been needing lately. You may not be into dac/amp combos though, it’s my preference for now. The singxers great, i hear good things about the jotunheim also.


----------



## Cisco150

TheRealDz said:


> I am working my way through through the burn in period, and am now near 100 hours.
> 
> The first day or so was the proverbial "OMG, what have I done???", but now it is settling in. At first, it seemed drier than my Jot2, but now they are both about even in that regard.  As some said, the bass strengthens over time, and that's definitely what I hear.  In fact, I have had to adjust EQ settings that I have had for months, in order to reduce the bass back to equivalent levels.
> 
> ...


Im looking at the SA1 or the Jot2 im using a D1SE and Ananda. What amp you think is better im moving from a thx amp the sp200 and i think it sounds to nuts for me harsh and dry


----------



## Cisco150

TheMiddleSky said:


> It was fun comparison! Topping D90SE with XLR output feed Topping A90, Singxer SA-1, and Schiit Jotunheim 2
> 
> At that moment I tried with Abyss Diana Phi and Focal Clear MG.
> 
> ...


Would you choose the SA1 Over the Jot2 for the Hifiman Ananda i have the THX SP200 and need to return it the XLR inputs are defective and feel the SP200 is Harsh with the Ananda. In using the VMV D1SE DAC in XLR balance mode


----------



## Alex May

Cisco150 said:


> Im looking at the SA1 or the Jot2 im using a D1SE and Ananda. What amp you think is better im moving from a thx amp the sp200 and i think it sounds to nuts for me harsh and dry


Both amps are fine, mate! They are slightly different in presentation, but that's just a matter of preference. Look, if you want cheaper, go for the Jot2. Alternatively, choose whatever is available to you locally. I'd choose my SA-1. Another person will go for the Jot2. There is NO superiority of one over the other. You have to choose for yourself based on what you've read already. You can't go wrong with either of them.


----------



## Cisco150

Alex May said:


> Both amps are fine, mate! They are slightly different in presentation, but that's just a matter of preference. Look, if you want cheaper, go for the Jot2. Alternatively, choose whatever is available to you locally. I'd choose my SA-1. Another person will go for the Jot2. There is NO superiority of one over the other. You have to choose for yourself based on what you've read already. You can't go wrong with either of them.


The price difference between the SA-1 and the Jot2 is less than $100 USD im kind of sensitive to high treble or it could be the thx sp200 doing it.


----------



## Alex May

Cisco150 said:


> The price difference between the SA-1 and the Jot2 is less than $100 USD im kind of sensitive to high treble or it could be the thx sp200 doing it.


No difference in this regard between the SA-1 and the Jot2. And as I said, the SP200 should not add any high treble energy either, unless it's a broken unit. Amps do not change the frequency response of your headphones. Period. Dynamics, punch, detail, separation - yes, they can change slightly, especially with Class A amps. But not frequency response. And no more than the actual capacity of your headphones.

I hope this video will help you decide between those two at last. Watch from 14:27 if you need the exact comparison between the SA-1 and Jot2:


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## hottyson (Mar 7, 2022)

Alex May said:


> Amps do not change the frequency response of your headphones. Period.


I have a hard time believing this. When I plug my Hifiman HE6SE V2 into my Darkvoice 336SE, or my Little Dot MKIII, lowest bass frequencies disappear and upper bass frequencies are barely audible. This frequency response makes music awful sounding is unlistenable to me. However when I plug the same Hifiman HE6SE V2 into a low impedance friendly headphone amplifier such as my Schiit Jotunheim 2, the lowest bass exists again and the upper bass returns.


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## Alex May

hottyson said:


> I have a hard time believing this. When I plug my Hifiman HE6SE V2 into my Darkvoice 336SE, or my Little Dot MKIII, lowest bass frequencies disappear and upper bass frequencies are barely audible. This frequency response makes music awful sounding is unlistenable to me. However when I plug the same Hifiman HE6SE V2 into a low impedance friendly headphone amplifier such as my Schiit Jotunheim 2, the lowest bass exists again and the upper bass returns.


Mate, I previously specifically mentioned *tube* amplifiers as intentionally made to add harmonics, i.e. distortion, and therefore change tonality, timbre, and a in some cases change frequency response. That's their *design intention*. Please, read my previous comment here. Secondly, your HE6 is a fringe case of a very hard to drive headphone with low impedance and current bias which may perform absolutely unexpectedly on tube amps with voltage bias.

Tube amps are voltage biased amps, they are not intended for use with HE6 or any other current-hungry headphones, i.e. planars.

Therefore, we are *not* talking here about:

fringe cases
tube amps
incompatible cases
specific design of an amp that intentionally assumes change in frequency response. No amp is intended to change FR unless it's a tube design or a special feature like XBass, Air, Presence, or similar. I didn't even think I had to reiterate it again. I thought it was clear for everybody.
correlation between an output impedance of an amp, its power, and an impedance curve of your *dynamic* headphone in relation to specific frequencies (again, planars don't count)
A good amp that is designed to *amplify* should never change frequency response of your headphone *in compatible situation*. Unless this is a special case of an amp that's intended to color, add harmonics or otherwise change the incoming sound.

I wrote my answer to a specific person considering his particular circumstances, specific needs and knowledge. In your case my answer would probably be different because I would consider quite a different set of amplifying devices and transducers that you possess or consider.


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## Mansinthe86

hottyson said:


> I have a hard time believing this. When I plug my Hifiman HE6SE V2 into my Darkvoice 336SE, or my Little Dot MKIII, lowest bass frequencies disappear and upper bass frequencies are barely audible. This frequency response makes music awful sounding is unlistenable to me. However when I plug the same Hifiman HE6SE V2 into a low impedance friendly headphone amplifier such as my Schiit Jotunheim 2, the lowest bass exists again and the upper bass returns.



Tube amps don't really count 🙄


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## Cisco150

Alex May said:


> Both amps are fine, mate! They are slightly different in presentation, but that's just a matter of preference. Look, if you want cheaper, go for the Jot2. Alternatively, choose whatever is available to you locally. I'd choose my SA-1. Another person will go for the Jot2. There is NO superiority of one over the other. You have to choose for yourself based on what you've read already. You can't go wrong with either of them.


Thanks. I am really looking to tame the Ananda in the highs and make them more bass and warmth more musical.  I listen to Rap, Hip-Hop reggae, and r&b. And Spanish music.  I like vocals to shine too in females or in males. Just want to make sure I pick right amp. As I'm not sure if I over did it in the Dac department with the D1SE.


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## Alex May

Cisco150 said:


> Thanks. I am really looking to tame the Ananda in the highs and make them more bass and warmth more musical.  I listen to Rap, Hip-Hop reggae, and r&b. And Spanish music.  I like vocals to shine too in females or in males. Just want to make sure I pick right amp. As I'm not sure if I over did it in the Dac department with the D1SE.


Use EQ, mate. That's what you really need. Forget about choosing "the right" amp. Choose whatever is available, 'cause neither of them will tame highs or add bass. That's what EQs are for.


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## Cisco150 (Mar 8, 2022)

Alex May said:


> Use EQ, mate. That's what you really need. Forget about choosing "the right" amp. Choose whatever is available, 'cause neither of them will tame highs or add bass. That's what EQs are for.


Ok say no more. I might just return the sp200 and get the Jot 2 or should i just get a replacement sp200 and call it a day. i paid $140 usd for it. You think i wasted 612 bucks on the Dac D1SE could i have gotten the su9n and saved or is it ok


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## Mansinthe86

Cisco150 said:


> Ok say no more. I might just return the sp200 and get the Jot 2 or should i just get a replacement sp200 and call it a day. i paid $140 usd for it. You think i wasted 612 bucks on the Dac D1SE could i have gotten the su9n and saved or is it ok


Yeah you definitely wasted money on the DAC.. the su-9n would have been enough. Or the D300 and plenty of other DACs.

Use a equilizer and don't look for magical hardware combinations


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## Cisco150

Mansinthe86 said:


> Yeah you definitely wasted money on the DAC.. the su-9n would have been enough. Or the D300 and plenty of other DACs.
> 
> Use a equilizer and don't look for magical hardware combinations


How would you compare the D300 to the SU-9N or the DO200 and should i go for the replacement SMSL SP200 THX AAA-888 or Get the JOTUNHEIM 2 or the Singxer SA-1


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## Mansinthe86

Cisco150 said:


> How would you compare the D300 to the SU-9N or the DO200 and should i go for the replacement SMSL SP200 THX AAA-888 or Get the JOTUNHEIM 2 or the Singxer SA-1


You keep repeating yourself over and over 🙄
Get the DAC that does what you want (filters etc), has the inputs you need and buy the amp that is available and cheaper.

But neither of these things will suddenly elevate your headphones to another level . All these amps are powerful enough and the differences with the DACs are at best meassureable but as long as your not a dog or bat probably not audible.

If you want to change the sound profile of your headphones, use a EQ.


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## Alex May

Cisco150 said:


> How would you compare the D300 to the SU-9N or the DO200 and should i go for the replacement SMSL SP200 THX AAA-888 or Get the JOTUNHEIM 2 or the Singxer SA-1



Keep your D1SE. You already have it anyway
Buy yourself a Singxer SA-1
If your budget is limited, then buy a Jot 2 instead of a Singxer SA-1
Don't buy a SMSL SP200
*Disclaimer:* just to save myself from misjudgment, all these dot points are written for a specific person with particular circumstances and specific needs, experience and knowledge, and should not serve as a guide for anyone else.


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## Cisco150

Alex May said:


> Keep your D1SE. You already have it anyway
> Buy yourself a Singxer SA-1
> If your budget is limited, then buy a Jot 2 instead of a Singxer SA-1
> Don't buy a SMSL SP200
> *Disclaimer:* just to save myself from misjudgment, all these dot points are written for a specific person with particular circumstances and specific needs, experience and knowledge, and should not serve as a guide for anyone else.


The Singxer SA-1 I can get for just $100 bucks more than the Jot 2 you think that $100 is worth it and thanks for the input


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## koikoikoi

Anyone here use the SA-1 mostly for preamp? If you do, how warm does your unit get? I have balanced xlr in, rca out for preamp and the unit gets pretty warm (never hot, but definitely warmer than room temp). Sometimes it gets around room temp in use, but 90% of the time it is warm to the touch.


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## NascentAP

koikoikoi said:


> Anyone here use the SA-1 mostly for preamp? If you do, how warm does your unit get? I have balanced xlr in, rca out for preamp and the unit gets pretty warm (never hot, but definitely warmer than room temp). Sometimes it gets around room temp in use, but 90% of the time it is warm to the touch.


I do. Mine behaves the same way.


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## Tazyn

I got an improved version of my headphones (Snorry Si-1 Mk2) and now I can definitely hear that the mod with jumpers gives more detail (it's clearly audible), better timbres and removes the tinted bass in the form of a slightly larger volume. The last point may upset.


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## Muataz

Tazyn said:


> I got an improved version of my headphones (Snorry Si-1 Mk2) and now I can definitely hear that the mod with jumpers gives more detail (it's clearly audible), better timbres and removes the tinted bass in the form of a slightly larger volume. The last point may upset.


while listing to music, open the cover and remove the jumpers. this way you can judge. I did it and was safe


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## ra990

Muataz said:


> while listing to music, open the cover and remove the jumpers. this way you can judge. I did it and was safe


This is a bad idea. You shouldn't be messing with anything on the circuit board while power is on.


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## amiga505

hi. anyone used the Singxer as a preamp? any experience matching to power amps? what is the output impedance of the Singxer - can't seem to find it anywhere.


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## Alex May

amiga505 said:


> hi. anyone used the Singxer as a preamp? any experience matching to power amps? what is the output impedance of the Singxer - can't seem to find it anywhere.


As the manufacturer says, the single-ended preamp output impedance is 22.5 ohms, and the balanced preamp impedance is 45 ohms. All the impedance parameters are listed in the Q&A section on ShenzhenAudio.


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## Jawsq

koikoikoi said:


> Anyone here use the SA-1 mostly for preamp? If you do, how warm does your unit get? I have balanced xlr in, rca out for preamp and the unit gets pretty warm (never hot, but definitely warmer than room temp). Sometimes it gets around room temp in use, but 90% of the time it is warm to the touch.


I use it as well and it does get warm but never any issues.


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## FinHifi (May 4, 2022)

Yet another comparison with Topping A90, test setup: Topping E50 balanced to topping and RCA to Singxer (i switched these and i think balanced might sound better, heavy might)
First issue that people have: Not enough volume, well this setup i can run my Diana v2(4.4mm) and ADX5000(xlr) too loud, volume knob is at 14.00 o clock with adx5000(xlr) to make it slightly too loud for casual listening.   : Dianas require the knob on the 17.00 position for loud experience, as those are harder to drive 91 dB/mw vs ADX 100dB/mw. If you want power, A90 is the winner.

Sound: SA-1 is more musical, whereas A90 clinical. A90 is faster and might have the edge on resolution, but SA-1 is more relaxed and has edge on musicality. Soundstage is wider on the SA-1 but only so slightly. Bass is slightly tighter and more focused on the A90 and more spread out on the SA-1 (low z appears to increase bass) The difference is not big, and had to switch back and forth to distinguish a difference. Treble is where the biggest difference lies: A90 is harsh with bright headphones like my ADX5000, and SA-1 slightly less so. If you have dark headphones, get the A90, bright get the SA-1.

I dont think one is better than other, just different. SA-1 fits my needs better, so im selling my A90.


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## TheMiddleSky

FinHifi said:


> Yet another comparison with Topping A90, test setup: Topping E50 balanced to topping and RCA to Singxer (i switched these and i think balanced might sound better, heavy might)
> First issue that people have: Not enough volume, well this setup i can run my Diana v2(4.4mm) and ADX5000(xlr) too loud, volume knob is at 14.00 o clock with adx5000(xlr) to make it slightly too loud for casual listening.  Weirdly: Dianas require the knob on the 17.00 position for loud experience. If you want power, A90 is the winner.
> 
> Sound: SA-1 is more musical, whereas A90 clinical. A90 is faster and might have the edge on resolution, but SA-1 is more relaxed and has edge on musicality. Soundstage is wider on the SA-1 but only so slightly. Bass is slightly tighter and more focused on the A90 and more spread out on the SA-1 (low z appears to increase bass) The difference is not big, and had to switch back and forth to distinguish a difference. Treble is where the biggest difference lies: A90 is harsh with bright headphones like my ADX5000, and SA-1 slightly less so. If you have dark headphones, get the A90, bright get the SA-1.
> ...



Nice comparison. 

If I may add few things:
1. E50 is balance DAC, via XLR is 4V compared to RCA 2V. Of course Topping seems twice as powerful because the input signal already twice stronger. 
2. Singxer use non-linear volume pot (to giving IEM user some room to turn the volume pot). 5 o'clock on singxer doesn't mean the same as 5 o'clock on other amps with regular potentiometer.


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## rjacko01

I'm using the SA-1 as a preamp out into a pair of AE-1 actives's when not driving my HE6SE. Get's warm, but nothing like my B&W MPA-810's(650W into 8 ohms)
Not sure what the issue is?
Any class A (A/B) amp is going to be warm, are you getting problems?
As for sound, it sounds great, but have to add into mix how much of that is the power amplification.
On the headphone side love this amp. Still warm when driving the phones, but nothing to worry about A nice functional bit of kit..


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## TheMiddleSky

Personally, temperature wise singxer is at "cool" side of class A amp, compared to something like burson soloist 3xp


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## Alex May

TheMiddleSky said:


> Personally, temperature wise singxer is at "cool" side of class A amp, compared to something like burson soloist 3xp


I'm still thinking about moving my SU-9 away from it 'cause it sits on top of my SA-1 and it warms up to the point where I start worrying about the durability of the SU-9.


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## jonathan c

Alex May said:


> I'm still thinking about moving my SU-9 away from it 'cause it sits on top of my SA-1 and it warms up to the point where I start worrying about the durability of the SU-9.


Switch?…SA-1 on top?


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## rjacko01

Ah sorry I should have been clearer, I was referring to the heat that is generated, tathet than the sound signature.. I have my su-9 sat on top of the sa-1 both have been on for over a year now with no issues...


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## Alex May

jonathan c said:


> Switch?…SA-1 on top?


No, that's physically impossible to swap them, if that's what you meant.


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## TheRealDz

Alex May said:


> I'm still thinking about moving my SU-9 away from it 'cause it sits on top of my SA-1 and it warms up to the point where I start worrying about the durability of the SU-9.


This is odd - mine runs barely over room temperature, regardless of how hard it is driven. 🤔


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## rjacko01




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## rjacko01

could do with a clean, but no can't swap position 
What are you after?


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## amiga505

rjacko01 said:


> could do with a clean, but no can't swap position
> What are you after?


you sure could... do with a a bit of dusting I mean


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## Voxata (May 5, 2022)

TheRealDz said:


> This is odd - mine runs barely over room temperature, regardless of how hard it is driven. 🤔



If you are comfortable doing so open your unit and ensure the heatsink pad is making proper contact.. mine was TERRIBLE. After replacing it and coupling my unit runs 'warm'. The heat is now properly dissipating.


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## Alex May

rjacko01 said:


>


OMG  I thought my rack was a terrible dust magnet


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## Friskyseal

I agree the SA-1 doesn't get "hot," but if you think it doesn't get "warm," try turning off the unit completely (via the switch on the back) and waiting a half hour. The aluminum case will go ICE COLD and you'll realize how much it heats up.


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## dstarr3

Yeah, I would say my SA-1 runs closer to human body temp than room temp. It's a perfectly acceptable and totally safe amount of heat, but it's still clearly generating _some _heat


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## TrumpOrMonkey

Has anyone determined whether there is actually variance in the potentiometers or gain, or is it that more just variances in peoples listening levels?


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## Alex May (May 6, 2022)

TrumpOrMonkey said:


> Has anyone determined whether there is actually variance in the potentiometers or gain, or is it that more just variances in peoples listening levels?


AFAIK, there is no potentiometer variation. But due to the nature of the circuit, there is a lot of factors that can produce a variety of volume ranges.

The potentiometer here is exponential. You have to crank an exponential potentiometer to 90% in order to reach the same loudness as a normal linear one would reach at 50%. But then they all reach their 100% with the same volume.
Then there is an input voltage that plays a huge role in how much volume you get out of the SA-1. So, the variety of DACs and their different output voltage is actually why people experience different volume levels out of their Singxer.
Next is a difference in power between the SE and balanced outputs.
Then there is a difference between current-biased planar magnetic headphones and voltage-biased dynamic headphones.
I also noticed a slight difference in volume depending on whether the amp is cold or hot
I can barely crank at 75% with my Arya connected to the XLR while inputting from the SU-9 on low gain. At the same time I barely hear a thing when inputting straight from the PC card and with my K702 connected to the SE output at 100%. This complicated variety of factors combined together is what causes such a huge difference in volume ranges.


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## lightoflight (May 14, 2022)

I got this as a summertime amp as I do not want my room to heat up. So far, it's running warm and that's good. The sound could be better though, I ran it through my preamp and it improved the clarity and soundstage, then again that's running another unit that will heat up my room.


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## lightoflight (May 17, 2022)

I've gone and did the DC mod and I have to say it does have more clarity now. It sounds Hi-Fi. Those are two very important things to have in a stereo system.


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## FinHifi

Here is an observation: I think the general idea is to put this on low z on low impedance hp, and vice versa. On low-z my adx5000 (420Ω) sound more alive, and has a wider soundstage. With my Dianas (42Ω) high-z setting now does the same, bottom setting is on high-z. The possible distortion these settings cause make these headphones shine(to me). I will try the dc offset mod at some point, and the low z on bottom. crappy documentation does not help with figuring out what those bottom switches do :S


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## Alex May

FinHifi said:


> Here is an observation: I think the general idea is to put this on low z on low impedance hp, and vice versa. On low-z my adx5000 (420Ω) sound more alive, and has a wider soundstage. With my Dianas (42Ω) high-z setting now does the same, bottom setting is on high-z. The possible distortion these settings cause make these headphones shine(to me). I will try the dc offset mod at some point, and the low z on bottom. crappy documentation does not help with figuring out what those bottom switches do :S


Low-z and hi-z have nothing to do with the gain setting at the bottom. So when you say 'bottom setting on high-z' it doesn't make sense. Z means impedance, not gain. Can you clarify what exactly you mean? There is an impedance (z) switch on the front panel and four gain switches on the bottom. Those at the bottom are attached directly to the PCB, each individual pair per channel in the balanced circuitry, so that to avoid additional cabling extension to the front and associated interference. Yeah, not the best design choice.


----------



## FinHifi

Alex May said:


> Low-z and hi-z have nothing to do with the gain setting at the bottom. So when you say 'bottom setting on high-z' it doesn't make sense. Z means impedance, not gain. Can you clarify what exactly you mean? There is an impedance (z) switch on the front panel and four gain switches on the bottom. Those at the bottom are attached directly to the PCB, each individual pair per channel in the balanced circuitry, so that to avoid additional cabling extension to the front and associated interference. Yeah, not the best design choice.


I mean the front impedance switch, and how it affects sound. By bottom i mean apparently those gain switches.


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## koikoikoi

FinHifi said:


> Here is an observation: I think the general idea is to put this on low z on low impedance hp, and vice versa. On low-z my adx5000 (420Ω) sound more alive, and has a wider soundstage. With my Dianas (42Ω) high-z setting now does the same, bottom setting is on high-z. The possible distortion these settings cause make these headphones shine(to me). I will try the dc offset mod at some point, and the low z on bottom. crappy documentation does not help with figuring out what those bottom switches do :S


I will say in my experience with my ADX5K there is no difference in low or high impedance setting on this amp. There is barely a difference that will only affect very high sensitivity IEM at most (balanced out low-z is 1.4ohm, high-z is 10ohm).


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## FinHifi (May 30, 2022)

koikoikoi said:


> I will say in my experience with my ADX5K there is no difference in low or high impedance setting on this amp. There is barely a difference that will only affect very high sensitivity IEM at most (balanced out low-z is 1.4ohm, high-z is 10ohm).


Your mileage may vary, the switch is not instant atleast to me, this is the song i hear it the most: 
i listen to the beginning and then switch and listen again. It's not night and day difference to me neither, and might just be in my head, but i still hear it 

 I think this video might explain why the sound alters with my Diana V2 so much tough. I think when I set the output impedance to High, it creates distortion that I find favourable. Part 2.30->

And i tried DC-jumper mod, made the sound slightly more dynamic and clear, but also reduced soundstage slightly. I like soundstage and slightly warmer sound, so i did go back to normal.


----------



## roderickvd

Anyone have any subjective comparisons to an AMB β22?

Objectively:
- both have MOSFET output stages
- the β22 has higher input impedance and lower output impedance
- the β22 has greater class A operating range: it is usually biased around 120mA and the SA-1 at 80mA I think
- the β22 is DC coupled by default
- the SA-1 output measures better

Since they are both based on MOSFETs I am really curious how they compare.


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## Mark200

After my 20-year-old Creek OBH-11 SE pure class A headphone amp died, and based on good reviews, I bought an Singxer SA-1 a couple of months ago, but sold it soon afterward.  The SA-1 made my Sennheiser HD-660S headphones (using RCA connections from my DAC, but balanced 4.4mm output headphone cables that came with my HD-660S) sound like they were muffled with a heavy piece of cloth or something. I did not make the jumper mod on the SA-1, which some say improves the level of high frequency detail, and maybe I should have tried that, but most reviewers said the difference was minor and opening the case voids the warranty (there is a sticker that must be removed to get into the SA-1 case).

I just replaced the SA-1 with a Schiit Magnius (one third the cost of the SA-1) and the sound is clear and detailed using the fully balanced input and output connections.

I am still at a loss as to how so many people can recommend the SA-1, unless they are willing to admit it sounds a lot better (not just a little better) with the jumper mod (which I did not try).


----------



## lightoflight

Mark200 said:


> After my 20-year-old Creek OBH-11 SE pure class A headphone amp died, and based on good reviews, I bought an Singxer SA-1 a couple of months ago, but sold it soon afterward.  The SA-1 made my Sennheiser HD-660S headphones (using RCA connections from my DAC, but balanced 4.4mm output headphone cables that came with my HD-660S) sound like they were muffled with a heavy piece of cloth or something. I did not make the jumper mod on the SA-1, which some say improves the level of high frequency detail, and maybe I should have tried that, but most reviewers said the difference was minor and opening the case voids the warranty (there is a sticker that must be removed to get into the SA-1 case).
> 
> I just replaced the SA-1 with a Schiit Magnius (one third the cost of the SA-1) and the sound is clear and detailed using the fully balanced input and output connections.
> 
> I am still at a loss as to how so many people can recommend the SA-1, unless they are willing to admit it sounds a lot better (not just a little better) with the jumper mod (which I did not try).



You didn't like the sound of high gain? It sounds like you're describing listening in low gain.


----------



## Mark200

lightoflight said:


> You didn't like the sound of high gain? It sounds like you're describing listening in low gain.


I tried high gain and low gain. No discernable difference in clarity. The HD-660S is 150 ohms and I ran it using the supplied balanced 4.4mm output cable.


----------



## Friskyseal

Mark200 said:


> The SA-1 made my Sennheiser HD-660S headphones (using RCA connections from my DAC, but balanced 4.4mm output headphone cables that came with my HD-660S) sound like they were muffled with a heavy piece of cloth or something.



It's in the amp's documentation that it is designed to be used either SE-in/SE-out or BAL-in/BAL-out. You used SE-in to balanced out, which likely explains why it didn't sound right. When you use the Magnius, you say you're doing fully balanced in and out, so I don't understand why you didn't try that with the SA-1.

For the record, I think the SA-1 sounds _significantly _better with the jumper mod. But even before that, I thought it sounded better than Jotunheim 2, so I would be surprised if you actually preferred Magnius to it. But, Magnius is a chip-based opamp design as opposed to fully discrete and maybe you just prefer that flavor of sound.


----------



## Mark200 (Jun 7, 2022)

Friskyseal said:


> It's in the amp's documentation that it is designed to be used either SE-in/SE-out or BAL-in/BAL-out. You used SE-in to balanced out, which likely explains why it didn't sound right. When you use the Magnius, you say you're doing fully balanced in and out, so I don't understand why you didn't try that with the SA-1.
> 
> For the record, I think the SA-1 sounds _significantly _better with the jumper mod. But even before that, I thought it sounded better than Jotunheim 2, so I would be surprised if you actually preferred Magnius to it. But, Magnius is a chip-based opamp design as opposed to fully discrete and maybe you just prefer that flavor of sound.


I didn't read the SA-1 documentation where it said that, but I don't recall any reviewers or other owners mentioning it. On the contrary, a lot of people said that the Schiit Magnius needs to have balanced input *and *balanced output to perform well so I knew going in that I had to purchase a a 4.4mm (from my DAC) to XLR balanced cable to get balanced input. But I have also heard some people say that balanced input is not that important, as the amp converts a SE input to balanced upfront.

My fully discrete Creek OH-11 SE Pure Class A headphone amp was the best sounding one I have ever heard (better than Magnius), so I would *not *say that I prefer opamp designs to discrete. In fact, the Creek didn't have a single IC anywhere in it.

I think you are one of the few people who claimed the SA-1 sounds "significantly" better with the jumper mod. I guess I should have tried that before selling it, but if that is the case why would Singxer even sell it without the jumpers installed.

*Edit: *BTW, I did try the SA-1 with SE input and SE output, as the HD-660S comes with both SE and Balanced cables. I used an Audioquest RCA one meter cable for SE input from my DAC.


----------



## Alex May

Mark200 said:


> The SA-1 made my Sennheiser HD-660S headphones (using RCA connections from my DAC, but balanced 4.4mm output headphone cables that came with my HD-660S) sound like they were muffled with a heavy piece of cloth or something.


If you describe it in such drastic terms as *heavy piece of cloth*, it sounds like you've got a faulty unit. I don't have any other explanation. Although you didn't mention whether you tried hi-z/low-z switch that could potentially influence what you hear. It doesn't matter if you connect your DAC via unbalanced and output balanced. Nor should it make any difference in sound signature if you switch from high gain to low gain and vice versa. I admit that I never connected my Sennheisers to the 4.4 socket, I mostly use this socket with my IEMs but I never experienced any veil. I always use the XLR for all my full sized headphones. And since I'm a mastering engineer, my hearing is not the worst in the world, I suppose. I would certainly notice if there was any veil of some sort. I might also mention that this amp has an exponential potentiometer, so it has to be cranked a lot higher in order to get a proper sound, otherwise it might be perceived as lacking in dynamics and, therefore, sounding veiled as Lachlan (Passion for Sound) also mentioned in his video (see below).

So if you hadn't sold your amp, I would have checked the cable first if it had proper soldering and wasn't faulty, then the impedance switch, and then I would have returned my *faulty* unit to the store rather than re-selling it to another unfortunate person because _a heavy piece of cloth_ veil is absolutely not what this amp is known for:


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## roderickvd (Jun 8, 2022)

I have a SA-1 on order and while I don’t have it yet, I thought to chime in on some topics.

I too have an ear and distinct disliking of AC coupled amplifiers. I won’t say that I have golden ears — I can’t really tell between 320 kbps compressed and lossless — but I *can* distinguish between AC and DC coupled, easily.

AC coupling gives a definitive veil over the sound that I disdain and immediately want to do something about. I open up the amp and bypass the coupling capacitors. Usually this requires a bit of soldering. For the SA-1, the jumpers are extremely convenient and I can only hope that they will remain there on future board revisions.

In the case of the SA-1, the coupling capacitors are Nichicon MUSE series. Which are excellent as far as electrolytics go. Usually the capacitor quality will be much lower. Better or worse, they all color the sound.

Reading through these pages it seems to me there is some fear over doing the DC mod because it is not well understood technically. Statemens like “taking off the handbrake” do little to further that and do not strike me as a good analogy. I would respond that you need to take the handbrake off, if you want to get racing.

Principally the source should ensure that they do not have a large DC offset. And indeed 99.9% do my means of a coupling capacitor or transformer on the output. I currently own an Ares II which already has caps on the output. So did my Soekris dam1121 before. And my Denon AVR before. And so on. If you’re unsure, it’s easy to measure with even a cheap digital multimeter.

Input caps are there as an ultimate safety device that you will likely never need. On the other hand, keeping them increases the total capacitance because the input and output caps now work in series. The effect of this is that it will increase the cutoff frequency (passing more ultrasonic noise) and decrease transient response.

While I understand that many amplifier manufacturers like to add this as an extra insurance so they are never held liable, it’s worthy to note that the likes of Hypex don’t on their nCore models. They are already DC coupled for ultimate performance.

Again, you just don’t need it in 99.9% of cases and the effect is very audible, at least to my ears.

On the topic of output impedance, objectively you will get the best sound quality with the lowest possible output impedance. Increasing output impedance always changes the frequency response of the headphones, regardless whether they are low or high impedance headphones. However, the higher the headphones impedance, the smaller the effect will be.

Increasing output impedance will work in tandem with headphones to decrease bass, increase midrange, and lower transient response. Subjectively you may like this better as this can sound more tubey.

Last on the topic of single-ended input and balanced output, I do think this is suboptimal on a fully-differential amplifier that just takes the positive leg of the signal without further unbalanced-to-balanced conversion with an input transformer or some opamps. Doing so the “negative” leg of the balanced output will be an amplification of the single-ended ground noise. Noise! Better to go single-ended out then.


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## Mark200

Alex May said:


> If you describe it in such drastic terms as *heavy piece of cloth*, it sounds like you've got a faulty unit. I don't have any other explanation. Although you didn't mention whether you tried hi-z/low-z switch that could potentially influence what you hear. It doesn't matter if you connect your DAC via unbalanced and output balanced. Nor should it make any difference in sound signature if you switch from high gain to low gain and vice versa. I admit that I never connected my Sennheisers to the 4.4 socket, I mostly use this socket with my IEMs but I never experienced any veil. I always use the XLR for all my full sized headphones. And since I'm a mastering engineer, my hearing is not the worst in the world, I suppose. I would certainly notice if there was any veil of some sort. I might also mention that this amp has an exponential potentiometer, so it has to be cranked a lot higher in order to get a proper sound, otherwise it might be perceived as lacking in dynamics and, therefore, sounding veiled as Lachlan (Passion for Sound) also mentioned in his video (see below).
> 
> So if you hadn't sold your amp, I would have checked the cable first if it had proper soldering and wasn't faulty, then the impedance switch, and then I would have returned my *faulty* unit to the store rather than re-selling it to another unfortunate person because _a heavy piece of cloth_ veil is absolutely not what this amp is known for:



I think my comments about a heavy piece of cloth are being blown out of proportion. Many headphones and speakers have "grills" that do little to degrade the sound, and a heavier piece of cloth would not render totally unusable, but would reduce the clarity. The point is that my impression of the SA-1 is that creates a veil that many listeners prefer and many believe makes the amp sound more tube-like or maybe they believe that is how Class A amps are supposed to sound (which I don't agree with).

There is nothing wrong with my Audioquest RCA cable, which I have owned for awhile and used it several different applications over the years. I used the same cable on my Creek OBH-11 SE Class A headphone amp.

I think the issue is that a lot of people today prefer the sound of tubes, and many solid state amp makers are trying to create amps that sound like tubes, with a smoother more musical sound, but with some loss in clarity and transients. I just prefer the amp to only amplify the signal, not change it in any way. I may be in the minority these days.

I can assure you that I tried every combination of switches on the SA-1 before I sold it. I took a $250 hit on selling it on Ebay (taking into consideration selling fees, etc).


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## Mark200

roderickvd said:


> Reading through these pages it seems to me there is some fear over doing the DC mod because it is not well understood technically. Statemens like “taking off the handbrake” do little to further that and do not strike me as a good analogy. I would respond that you need to take the handbrake off, if you want to get racing.


I didn't perform the SA-1 jumper mod out of any fear per se. Years ago I built 3 Hafler kits (amp, pre-amp, and equalizer) and I am pretty good with a soldering iron. Of course, the SA-1 mod only requires adding some jumpers, which I am also very familiar with since I have built 5 PC's over the years.

My concern about trying the jumper mod is that it voids the warranty, and if it didn't work then that would reduce the amount of money I could get for the unit if I sold it. There is a sticker on one of case screws, so there is no way to open the case without it being known and Singxer explicitly says the warranty is voided if the case is opened (even if no changes are made). Since most (if not all) of the reviewers I watched on YouTube claimed that difference was small after performing the jumper mod, I just decided to cut my losses and try another amp.


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## Alex May

Mark200 said:


> I just prefer the amp to only amplify the signal, not change it in any way. I may be in the minority these days.


A90 then. Why bother with class A? Any class A amp is supposed to color the sound more or less in one way or another. If you need a quality 'wire with gain', then A90 is the best choice. Or a budget alternative THX 789 that will pretty much tick all the boxes, except for the ability to show off an expensive gear. The only class A amp that I know of that comes closest to the 'wire with gain' concept is Burson Soloist 3X for $1100 US. It's pretty much the cleanest and most transparent class A amp with excellent dynamics.


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## godmax

Mark200 said:


> I think my comments about a heavy piece of cloth are being blown out of proportion. Many headphones and speakers have "grills" that do little to degrade the sound, and a heavier piece of cloth would not render totally unusable, but would reduce the clarity. The point is that my impression of the SA-1 is that creates a veil that many listeners prefer and many believe makes the amp sound more tube-like or maybe they believe that is how Class A amps are supposed to sound (which I don't agree with).
> 
> There is nothing wrong with my Audioquest RCA cable, which I have owned for awhile and used it several different applications over the years. I used the same cable on my Creek OBH-11 SE Class A headphone amp.
> 
> ...


Did you buy the SA-1 brand new and how many hours did it have when you sold it? In the first days/weeks my own SA-1 had very boomy sound to it - that went away over time (should'nt be possible on a solid-state amp?!) and is now my most neutral/transparent amplifier I have (even many claim its "warm"). But for sure you can take a look at A90 (or successor) or a THX based amplifier. Just a note: the SA-1 is not fully class A anyway, that even Singxer acknowledged.


Alex May said:


> A90 then. Why bother with class A? Any class A amp is supposed to color the sound more or less in one way or another. If you need a quality 'wire with gain', then A90 is the best choice. Or a budget alternative THX 789 that will pretty much tick all the boxes, except for the ability to show off an expensive gear. The only class A amp that I know of that comes closest to the 'wire with gain' concept is Burson Soloist 3X for $1100 US. It's pretty much the cleanest and most transparent class A amp with excellent dynamics.


Don't get me wrong - I have and like the Soloist 3XP myself, but its far from "wire with gain" - rather the opposite if you look the recent measurements (euphonic distortion unit )


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## Mark200

Alex May said:


> A90 then. Why bother with class A? Any class A amp is supposed to color the sound more or less in one way or another. If you need a quality 'wire with gain', then A90 is the best choice. Or a budget alternative THX 789 that will pretty much tick all the boxes, except for the ability to show off an expensive gear. The only class A amp that I know of that comes closest to the 'wire with gain' concept is Burson Soloist 3X for $1100 US. It's pretty much the cleanest and most transparent class A amp with excellent dynamics.


I already purchased the Schiit Magnius (Class A/B) and I am satisfied with it.

I don't agree that a Class A amp is "supposed" to color the sound, it just doesn't add any negative feedback, so in effect it should have less colorization. But many Class A amps these days seem to have additional processing that does color the sound to make it clearly more distinguishable from A/B, usually by adding some warmth or smoothness to the sound.

I did consider the A90, but there were too many reliability issues reported on various forums.


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## Mark200

godmax said:


> Did you buy the SA-1 brand new and how many hours did it have when you sold it? In the first days/weeks my own SA-1 had very boomy sound to it - that went away over time (should'nt be possible on a solid-state amp?!) and is now my most neutral/transparent amplifier I have (even many claim its "warm"). But for sure you can take a look at A90 (or successor) or a THX based amplifier. Just a note: the SA-1 is not fully class A anyway, that even Singxer acknowledged.
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I have and like the Soloist 3XP myself, but its far from "wire with gain" - rather the opposite if you look the recent measurements (euphonic distortion unit )


Yes, I purchased the SA-1 brand new from Mass Drop. I put about 20 hours on it. I never noticed any boomy sound, just lack of the transparency. I have already purchased the Schiit Magnius and it sounds fine, although not quite as good as my 24 year-old Creek OBH-11 SE Class A amp that recently quit working.


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## roderickvd (Jun 8, 2022)

A few common misconceptions here.

(Almost?) all push-pull class A amps are class A up until the current at which they are biased. At higher current they go into A/B. Which is the same as saying that class A/B amps operate in class A mode up until their bias point.

For amps designated as class A, this usually means that they are biased higher so that they may be expected to work within their class A region for the output devices they were rated with. Unlike class A/B amps which means that you can expect A/B operation. Some may call this a marketing gimmick but I don’t think it is. Looking at the class A range for the SA-1, this is usually the case but for the most demanding of headphones at high volumes.

Regarding negative feedback, there is no reason why class A amps couldn’t have any. In fact I know the AMB designs have. I don’t known about the SA-1. Edit: assuming a good feedback implementation, you will objectively have _less_ colorization with feedback — the very point of feedback is to get the output to track the input as close as possible. 

Finally about burn-in, it’s well known that capacitors sound different after so many hours. I don’t think this has been measured for film caps (though our ears know it’s true!). But for electrolytics it is known that their properties change after charging cycles.

Then hysteresis is a real thing that’s present in MOSFETs and changes their  properties. So in all, yes class A designs are also subject to burn-in.


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## Mark200

roderickvd said:


> A few common misconceptions here.
> 
> (Almost?) all push-pull class A amps are class A up until the current at which they are biased. At higher current they go into A/B. Which is the same as saying that class A/B amps operate in class A mode up until their bias point.
> 
> ...


I don't want to get into an argument about this, but the differences I heard cannot be attributed to burn-in. Admittedly, the trend these days is for making solid-state amps sound like tube amps, but that is not my particular cup of tea, even if the majority of people don't agree with me.


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## Mansinthe86

Alex May said:


> A90 then. Why bother with class A? Any class A amp is supposed to color the sound more or less in one way or another. If you need a quality 'wire with gain', then A90 is the best choice. Or a budget alternative THX 789 that will pretty much tick all the boxes, except for the ability to show off an expensive gear. The only class A amp that I know of that comes closest to the 'wire with gain' concept is Burson Soloist 3X for $1100 US. It's pretty much the cleanest and most transparent class A amp with excellent dynamics.


The SA1 isn't even a class A amp. When you really push it a bit with demanding headphones it's A/B.


The soloist 3XP is as much a wire with a gain like a tube amp is....not really recommended at all if you don't need the power.
And if U need that kind of output power there are better amps like fluxlabs or the schiit Ragnarok.

(That is if U care at all for measurements.. )


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## roderickvd

Mark200 said:


> I don't want to get into an argument about this, but the differences I heard cannot be attributed to burn-in. Admittedly, the trend these days is for making solid-state amps sound like tube amps, but that is not my particular cup of tea, even if the majority of people don't agree with me.


No arguments from me. We’re on Head-Fi here, not on ASR. Just trying to further the collectively knowledge of what all this means technically. Then to each making his or her own decision on personal preferences.


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## dstarr3

roderickvd said:


> We’re on Head-Fi here, not on ASR.


Thank god for that


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## Alex May (Jun 9, 2022)

Mansinthe86 said:


> The SA1 isn't even a class A amp. When you really push it a bit with demanding headphones it's A/B.


Well, in most cases the SA-1 is actually Class A. As the manufacturer says, pure Class A operation remains when:
- Balanced 16 ohm load: below 500mw;
- Balanced 32 ohm load: below 1000mw;
- Balanced load of 68 ohms: below 3000mw;
- Balanced load above 68 ohms: almost all power is Class A

Most of the headphones will always be driven with pure Class A amplification when connected to the SA-1. It will always be Class A for the LCD-X (20 Ohm, 500 mW = 130 dB). In order to drive Arya to class A/B on SA-1 you need to damage your hearing at 124 dB with 1000 mW of power, because only at that point the SA-1 turns into Class A/B.


Mansinthe86 said:


> The soloist 3XP is as much a wire with a gain like a tube amp is


I didn't say it was. I said that the Soloist was the closest one among the Class A amps to the _'wire with gain'_ concept due to its clarity and transparency. It's still miles away nonetheless. Of course it's not _wire with gain_ per se. It means that the rest of the Class A amps are galaxies away from being _wire with gain_. The point was that the person was looking for a _wire with gain_ with Class A amplification at the same time in one piece of gear for some reason. So I told him that this was not possible, although he insisted that in his ideal world, the concept of _'wire with gain'_ *should* be applied to a Class A amplifier. There is no point to argue with me about that. You'd better address your reasoning to @Mark200


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## Mark200

Alex May said:


> Well, in most cases the SA-1 is actually Class A. As the manufacturer says, pure Class A operation remains when:
> - Balanced 16 ohm load: below 500mw;
> - Balanced 32 ohm load: below 1000mw;
> - Balanced load of 68 ohms: below 3000mw;
> ...


I didn't demand that a Class A amp be simply wire with gain. I said (or meant) I didn't want an amp (any class) that had extra processing to make it sound like a tube amp or to attempt to smooth out the sound. More specifically, the SA-1 sounded to me like listening to music behind a veil. This is contrasted with several other amps I tried (including the SE headphone jack of a 15 year old Onkyo integrated stereo receiver, my old Creek OBH-11 SE class A headphone amp, or my new Schiit Magnius headphone amp), all three of which sounded like the veil is lifted and clarity is greatly enhanced compared to the SA-1.

I am assuming that SA-1 has some extra circuitry in it to make it sound like a tube amp, because that is the only explanation I have for the significant number of IC's on the circuit board and the way it sounds. Obviously, a lot of amps have circuitry in them switch between class A and class B, including those which claim to run mostly in class A mode. In my experience, this later kind of processing would not account for the veil I experienced with the SA-1.

I would not expect every person to experience the same thing I did with the SA-1, at least partly because others weren't using a Sennheiser HD 660S, which is quite detailed and revealing, but without harshness. Many listeners like a softer sounding headphone, which may not reveal the differences in amps as much as I experienced. Also, I listed to my HD 660S (150 ohms) with balanced output cables on all the amps that had balanced output, even if the input from the DAC was RCA cables (Audioquest). I did notice that the SPL was a bit higher with the balanced output cables versus SE headphone cables (the HD 660S comes with both types cables), but no other difference in quality of sound was noticed.


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## Alex May

@Mark200 
Well, according to the specifications, the SA-1 is always Class A for the HD660s at all times. It will never switch to Class A/B for this particular headphone no matter what. I still believe that you simply had a faulty unit. Normally, the Schiit Magnius would never sound more open and airy than the Singxer SA-1. Maybe slightly more compressed and forward for some. Of course, now we will never know what happened to your particular unit since you re-sold it instead of returning it back to Drop. Why didn't you return it to Drop given that Drop has a fairly benign return policy in US?


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## Mark200

Alex May said:


> @Mark200
> Well, according to the specifications, the SA-1 is always Class A for the HD660s at all times. It will never switch to Class A/B for this particular headphone no matter what. I still believe that you simply had a faulty unit. Normally, the Schiit Magnius would never sound more open and airy than the Singxer SA-1. Maybe slightly more compressed and forward for some. Of course, now we will never know what happened to your particular unit since you re-sold it instead of returning it back to Drop. Why didn't you return it to Drop given that Drop has a fairly benign return policy in US?


Drop didn't have a return policy listed on their website for the SA-1, unlike many of their other products. Maybe there was one anyway.

I don't believe my SA-1 was defective. I just think I have more sensitivity to colorization in audio equipment, and also the HD 660S is quite revealing. It is possible that doing the jumper mod would have addressed the problem, but I was relying on the numerous reviews I read or watched on YouTube that said the difference was minor. Maybe with their headphones the difference was minor. At least one member of this forum said the difference (and improvement) was quite noticeable, but I didn't see that comment until just a few days ago.

It is interesting that you mention "airy" with regard to amplifier sound. Some people would interpret an airy quality as a amp that slightly softens some of harsh tones in a recording, which is not something I want. If a recording is too harsh (some definitely are) I just listen to better recordings that are properly produced for accurate high-end equipment (as opposed to produced for OEM earbuds attached to a smartphone). Also, I don't see why the Schiit Magnius sound would be more compressed than the SA-1.

Sometimes a $200 amp actually does sound better than a $600 amp. I suspect that Singxer was just trying to do too many things in their amp to improve the sound (or add protection circuits), when maybe "less" would have been "more". My 24 year-old Creek OBH-11 SE Class A headphone amp had only discrete components (no IC's of any kind) and a relatively small number of individual transistors, resistors, capacitors, and a few diodes on a small circuit board, and it was the best sounding headphone amp I have heard.

But again, my comments are just one man's opinion based on my subjective listening judgements, and I am quite sure that not everyone agrees with me.


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## roderickvd (Jun 9, 2022)

Mark200 said:


> My 24 year-old Creek OBH-11 SE Class A headphone amp had *only discrete components (no IC's of any kind)*


I am sorry to say that this is not true from what I read. The OBH-11 is based on an NE5532 opamp. It is not discrete at all.


Mark200 said:


> I don't agree that a Class A amp is "supposed" to color the sound, it just doesn't add any negative feedback, so in effect it should have less colorization. But many Class A amps these days seem to have additional processing that does color the sound to make it clearly more distinguishable from A/B, usually by adding some warmth or smoothness to the sound.


You keep saying that the SA-1 must be doing signal processing, but it isn't. It's the MOSFETs that give a certain characteristic to the sound.

Somewhere you drew the conclusion that it must be doing signal processing, because there are a lot of components on there. This is not correct. There are more components there compared to an opamp-based design, because it is a discrete design. Also, it is balanced, so times two again.

I have also explained before that negative feedback done well *decreases* colorization, contrary to what you state.

I *do* get that you don't like the SA-1's sound. You stated that you dislike warm, tube-like sounds. The amps you did like, are based on opamps (including the OBH-11). Now the SA-1 has MOSFETs and those are known to be the most tube-like you can find in a solid state design (though still miles apart from a true tube amp). So it makes sense that the SA-1 never would be to your liking. For the cleanest, most analytical reproduction that you seek, you should look for opamp-based amps.

Again I respect everyone's personal preferences  but I'm trying to be transparent on the facts.


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## Mark200

roderickvd said:


> I am sorry to say that this is not true from what I read. The OBH-11 is based on an NE5532 opamp. It is not discrete at all.
> 
> You keep saying that the SA-1 must be doing signal processing, but it isn't. It's the MOSFETs that give a certain characteristic to the sound.
> 
> ...


You apparently did not read what I wrote. I have a Creek OBH-11 SE Class A headphone amp, which is not the same as the OBH-11 headphone amp.

As far "discrete" I said that the OBH-11 SE has only discrete components, no IC's (integrated circuits), which is not surprising for a 1998 product. I have attached a photo of the Creek to verify that my statements are correct. Of course, an Op Amp can be built using discrete components, but I didn't say anything about that subject with regard to my Creek amp.









Regarding signal processing, I did not say the SA-1 does DSP (digital signal processing), because it would need a ADC and DAC to do that. As to whether it has discrete components or IC's that affect the signal, yes it does have those, such as the capacitors that can be bypassed with the jumpers. As to what other components affect the signal, I don't have information on that and neither do you, since I assume that information is proprietary. However, looking at the SA-1 circuit board, it has quite a few IC's, especially compared to the Schiit Magnius. I would assume that any included components in the SA-1 (or any amp) will affect the signal in some way (or else why are they there), hopefully for the better.

Negative feedback is used to improve gain stability, reduce distortion, and improve frequency response. If done correctly, it can make a amplifier sound more linear, so if I think the SA-1 is not neutral and transparent sounding, then that can be for a number reasons in their design other than negative feedback.

I have owned and listened extensively to a number of amps over the the years that used MOSFETs, including (but not limited to):

*Hafler DH-220* (115 wpc) that I assembled from a kit in 1982 (main circuit boards came pre-assembled). It used Hitachi MOSFET output transistors.
*Onkyo A-9555* ((100 wpc) Integrated amp (designed for speakers but with a headphone amp included on front panel) purchased in 2009 that claims to have a "Discrete Output Stage Circuitry." I compared the sound of my HD-660S headphones with the headphone output (using SE headphone cable) on this Onkyo integrated amp with the SA-1 (using SE and Balanced headphone cables) and found the sound from the Onkyo headphone output much clearer and distinct compared to the SA-1.
I completely disagree with your comments that amps with MOSFET's are tube-like in their sound, based on my many years using amps with MOSFET output transistors.

However, my judgements are not based on the design of the SA-1 amp (or any amp), but purely based on my listening judgment, and that is where I find the SA-1 lacking in clarity and transparency. As I said before, maybe the jumper mod to bypass the capacitors would have fixed this for me, but that would have voided the warranty and I decided to move on to another amp (Schiit Magnius) that I am quite happy with.


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## Mark200

roderickvd said:


> I am sorry to say that this is not true from what I read. The OBH-11 is based on an NE5532 opamp. It is not discrete at all.


Here is a photo of a Texas Instruments NE5532AP OP AMP, DUAL LOW NOISE, 5532, DIP8. *There is no such component (or any IC) in the Creek OBH-11 SE. *I also have a schematic of the OBH-11 SE, but I prefer to not post that because it may be proprietary.


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## roderickvd

Mark200 said:


> You apparently did not read what I wrote. I have a Creek OBH-11 SE Class A headphone amp, which is not the same as the OBH-11 headphone amp.


My apologies. I was not aware of that distinction.


Mark200 said:


> Regarding signal processing, I did not say the SA-1 does DSP (digital signal processing), because it would need a ADC and DAC to do that. As to whether it has discrete components or IC's that affect the signal, yes it does have those, such as the capacitors that can be bypassed with the jumpers. As to what other components affect the signal, I don't have information on that and neither do you, since I assume that information is proprietary. However, looking at the SA-1 circuit board, it has quite a few IC's, especially compared to the Schiit Magnius. I would assume that any included components in the SA-1 (or any amp) will affect the signal in some way (or else why are they there), hopefully for the better.


OK, I thought you meant DSP. Sure, any extra component in the signal path will have an impact big or small. From that one may conclude that the fewer components will also mean less colorization. That does not need to be the case. Indeed, more components *may* lead to "better" amplification but it all comes down to implementation. And with more components, that's certainly more complex and prone to mishaps.

Thanks for sharing the pictures. I haven't counted the difference between what's in that Creek and under the heatsink of the SA-1 where the four amplifier modules are, but judging from the pictures of the SA-1 the component there is entirely normal for a MOSFET output stage.

Surrounding the amplifier modules there indeed are some IC's. Singxer has stated that none of these are in the signal path, and that they are there for control and protection purposes. Seeing how they are also transparent on the bias point at which the amp goes into A/B, I believe them.


Mark200 said:


> Negative feedback is used to improve gain stability, reduce distortion, and improve frequency response. If done correctly, it can make a amplifier sound more linear, so if I think the SA-1 is not neutral and transparent sounding, then that can be for a number reasons in their design other than negative feedback.


I agree, it must have been something else. Also I don't know whether the SA-1 employs negative feedback or not. I was just latching onto a seemingly common misunderstanding that negative feedback is a bad thing. I think it got that image from poor implementations back in the days. Anyway it is a different discussion from what was happening to your SA-1.


Mark200 said:


> I have owned and listened extensively to a number of amps over the the years that used MOSFETs, including (but not limited to):
> 
> *Hafler DH-220* (115 wpc) that I assembled from a kit in 1982 (main circuit boards came pre-assembled). It used Hitachi MOSFET output transistors.
> *Onkyo A-9555* ((100 wpc) Integrated amp (designed for speakers but with a headphone amp included on front panel) purchased in 2009 that claims to have a "Discrete Output Stage Circuitry." I compared the sound of my HD-660S headphones with the headphone output (using SE headphone cable) on this Onkyo integrated amp with the SA-1 (using SE and Balanced headphone cables) and found the sound from the Onkyo headphone output much clearer and distinct compared to the SA-1.
> I completely disagree with your comments that amps with MOSFET's are tube-like in their sound, based on my many years using amps with MOSFET output transistors.


I won't argue with anyone's tastes and subjective impressions. I just make the observation that more than one person (myself included) feels that way, if you Google for "mosfet sound characteristic". I have even entered a (perhaps a bit biased) search for "Onkyo A-9555 tube" and found quite the number of hits that felt that way for that amp. When I said "it is well-known" these are the observations that I mean -- and for sure anyone can feel differently about that.

I thought I had found a correlation to your personal taste and amplifier technology. That might have been a helpful buyer's guide, but alas! I am glad that you are happy with your Magnius. Happy listening


----------



## Tazyn

Mark200 said:


> I don't believe my SA-1 was defective. I just think I have more sensitivity to colorization in audio equipment, and also the HD 660S is quite revealing. It is possible that doing the jumper mod would have addressed the problem, but I was relying on the numerous reviews I read or watched on YouTube that said the difference was minor. Maybe with their headphones the difference was minor. At least one member of this forum said the difference (and improvement) was quite noticeable, but I didn't see that comment until just a few days ago.


It's always better to try the jumper mod yourself.
I can't listen to Sa-1 without jumper mod.
The fuse also has a bad effect on the sound (I replaced it with a fuse from gustard). Having done these two things, I forgot about the veil in the sound.


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## Tazyn (Jun 10, 2022)

I have a problem that I haven't figured out yet. The culprit could be Sa-1 or my headphones. What is the problem: if the headphones lie dormant for a long time or my computer goes into standby mode - if after that I put on the headphones and turn on the music - there is an imbalance of the right and left channels of the headphones (the right earphone is quieter). Have any of the owners of Sa1 encountered this? (I've owned an amplifier for about a year). My channel balance is restored after the amplifier is turned off or the volume is sharply increased.


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## Alex May

Tazyn said:


> I have a problem that I haven't figured out yet. The culprit could be Sa-1 or my headphones. What is the problem: if the headphones lie dormant for a long time or my computer goes into standby mode - if after that I put on the headphones and turn on the music - there is an imbalance of the right and left channels of the headphones (the right earphone is quieter). Have any of the owners of Sa1 encountered this? (I've owned an amplifier for about a year). My channel balance is restored after the amplifier is turned off.


I can only guess that it might be due to the jumper mod you did where you might have touched something like IC leaving a static charge on it from your hands. Something like that. As a result, some component might have started accumulating a charge when idle which is discharged upon restarting a unit. That's why everyone has been warned that any modification can only be done at your own risk. It's not approved by the manufacturer. It's not safe, nor recommended. Any fault that occurs after such an intervention is automatically considered as a result of it, even if the real cause is not related to it. If you think that the SA-1 sounds better after the mod, you might as well just buy a different amp that sounds in accordance with your tastes rather than trying to apply a risky mod to an amp you don't like out of the box.

I can only repeat that I'm against doing these mods, I always talk people out of doing any mods in the first place. You pay $600 for a piece of gear for what? To *fix* it? Just buy a different amp for god's sake!


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## Mark200 (Jun 10, 2022)

Tazyn said:


> It's always better to try the jumper mod yourself.
> I can't listen to Sa-1 without jumper mod.
> The fuse also has a bad effect on the sound (I replaced it with a fuse from gustard). Having done these two things, I forgot about the veil in the sound.


The problem is that to try install the jumpers to bypass the capacitors, I would have had to remove/damage a sticker over a case screw that would void the warranty. I am reasonably sure I got a lot more money when selling my unit with the warranty intact. But in hindsight, and seeing more comments about the improvements of making the jumper mod, I probably would have tried it. Most of YouTube reviews said the difference was only slight, but I am now thinking that was not accurate.

Interestingly, one YouTube reviewer said that SA-1 manufacturer/distributor told him that the jumper option will not be available on upcoming versions. He didn't say if that meant the capacitors cannot be bypassed, or that the capacitors will be removed. My understanding is that the capacitors are there for some kind of circuit protection when hooking up with Output Tansformer Less (OTL) components, but not 100% sure about that. I have seen other headphone amps just flat out say that their product has no such protection when connected to OTL products, and therefore they should not be used with their headphone amp,


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## Tazyn (Jun 10, 2022)

I have no proof that the problem is with Sa-1. Moreover, there is no evidence that jumper mod is involved in this problem. While I'm just collecting information.
P.S. Once I already had a problem with channel imbalance, at that time it was a malfunction of the headphones and the symptoms were similar.


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## Mark200

roderickvd said:


> I won't argue with anyone's tastes and subjective impressions. I just make the observation that more than one person (myself included) feels that way, if you Google for "mosfet sound characteristic". I have even entered a (perhaps a bit biased) search for "Onkyo A-9555 tube" and found quite the number of hits that felt that way for that amp. When I said "it is well-known" these are the observations that I mean -- and for sure anyone can feel differently about that.


Whether the Onkyo A-9555 sounds like a tube amp or sounds like a solid-state amp is always debatable. Not all tube amps sound the same anyway. Doing a Google search, I can probably find tens of millions of people on the Internet who don't think the USA landed a man on the moon in 1969 (that it was faked), so I don't put much faith in your conclusions based on searching "Onkyo A-9555 tube".

But in this case, I listened to the headphone output on the front panel of the amp on the A-9555, which I am sure is a pretty minimalist and separate amp from the main amp section that drives loudspeakers.


----------



## Mark200

roderickvd said:


> I thought I had found a correlation to your personal taste and amplifier technology. That might have been a helpful buyer's guide, but alas! I am glad that you are happy with your Magnius. Happy listening


My Creek OBH-11 SE headphone amp was pure class A, and it is the best headphone amp I have ever listened to (unfortunately no longer working after 24 years). So I thought that buying another class A headphone amp, even if it cost $600, would be worth it. Therefor, I also thought there was correlation between amplifier technology and my preferences. But with the SA-1, I found it to be too soft without performing the jumper mod that bypasses the capacitors. It was tough decision to not try the mod, but I sold it and got a decent price for it.


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## Tazyn

Mark200 The sticker can be carefully peeled off without damage using a razor blade (it will be in pristine condition).
I did the mod without fear of losing the warranty. I do not plan to sell the amplifier. But even if I sell it, it's only inside the country, and the guarantee for such a sale does not matter because no one pays attention to the existence of a guarantee related to shipping to another country. In our secondary audio market, only the local warranty is valued (with shipping within the country). Therefore, it is not necessary to have a guarantee for my sale.


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## roderickvd

Mark200 said:


> Interestingly, one YouTube reviewer said that SA-1 manufacturer/distributor told him that the jumper option will not be available on upcoming versions. He didn't say if that meant the capacitors cannot be bypassed, or that the capacitors will be removed. My understanding is that the capacitors are there for some kind of circuit protection when hooking up with Output Tansformer Less (OTL) components, but not 100% sure about that. I have seen other headphone amps just flat out say that their product has no such protection when connected to OTL products, and therefore they should not be used with their headphone amp,


I have read a post by one Singxer engineer on ASR, stating that they might remove the jumpers in future board revisions. It would make the bypass mod more difficult but not impossible. In other amps I just soldered the leads together.

If there's an OTL design that emits DC offset then indeed you would be in trouble... and would have a defective or very poorly designed OTL on your hands. OTL's need coupling capacitors on their output. Generally any source that emits DC offset is either defective or bespoke, I'd say.


Mark200 said:


> But in this case, I listened to the headphone output on the front panel of the amp on the A-9555, which I am sure is a pretty minimalist and separate amp from the main amp section that drives loudspeakers.


Can be. Sometimes (often?) speaker amps tap a headphone out from the speaker out which a series resistor. Pretty minimalist but it causes damping issues, particularly with lower impedance cans. Better amps have a separate output buffer or put resistors in parallel. I don't know about Onkyo, but I owned a Denon that cheaped out on its headphone out.


Mark200 said:


> My Creek OBH-11 SE headphone amp was pure class A, and it is the best headphone amp I have ever listened to (unfortunately no longer working after 24 years). So I thought that buying another class A headphone amp, even if it cost $600, would be worth it. Therefor, I also thought there was correlation between amplifier technology and my preferences. But with the SA-1, I found it to be too soft without performing the jumper mod that bypasses the capacitors. It was tough decision to not try the mod, but I sold it and got a decent price for it.


Have you tried sending the Creek to your local repair shop? If they could fix it up it sounds like something that'd be valuable to you?


----------



## Tazyn

If you are the owner of Sa1 and you do not intend to make a jumper mod for any reason, you can always change the fuse (if you are not satisfied with something in the sound). In this case, you do not lose the warranty.
I still think that singxer unsuccessfully picked up the fuse. It has an effect on sound. Even before the jumper mod, I tried to replace the fuse in Sa1 by removing the fuse from another amplifier (experiment). And the result was positive.
Only select a fuse with the same technical parameters (or similar).


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## Mansinthe86

What Gustard Fuse did U use for the SA1? They have 4 different versions at hifigo


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## dstarr3

To anyone concerned about damaging the warranty sticker, you can buy sheets of them from eBay for very little. Just slap a new one on when you're done. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1444844343...30IhguOTDm&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


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## lightoflight

Tazyn said:


> It's always better to try the jumper mod yourself.
> I can't listen to Sa-1 without jumper mod.
> The fuse also has a bad effect on the sound (I replaced it with a fuse from gustard). Having done these two things, I forgot about the veil in the sound.


That's interesting, which Gustard fuse rating did you use?


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## roderickvd

Though I’m skeptic about the audibility of fuses, the stock fuse is a Littelfuse T2AH 250V. 

I just received my SA-1, immediately did the DC mod and think it sounds f-ing amazing without any burn-in!


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## lightoflight

roderickvd said:


> Though I’m skeptic about the audibility of fuses, the stock fuse is a Littelfuse T2AH 250V.
> 
> I just received my SA-1, immediately did the DC mod and think it sounds f-ing amazing without any burn-in!


I agree, SA-1 sound is very good with DC mod. It didn't sound bad without the mod either.

The Gustard fuses are fairly cheap compared to other audiophile grade fuses and I feel it's worth a try. However, Gustard fuses does not have a 2 amp rating version, maybe their 1.6 amp might work?


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## roderickvd

The SA-1 has two Meanwell IRM-20-15 switching mode power supplies. Their typical AC current is specified as 0.6A @ 115VAC and 0.4A @ 230VAC (in-rush being much higher at 20A and 40A respectively). So total 1.2A @ 115VAC or 0.8A @ 230VAC. You may want a little headroom in the current rating, because the SMPS may impose a lot of pulses on the fuse. I think a 1.6A slow-blow fuse will be fine.


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## allinhead

J Mirra said:


> I am using the HD800 non s on low Z, using high Z has less bass and slam when listening to progressive trance and has a smaller soundstage sounding closer to my RNHP.
> 
> I like the sound of high gain for the 800 as it gives it more energy it is less laid back with more slam in the bass area to my ears.
> Volume around 10-11.
> It is the best my 800 has sounded to date for me on my audio journey.


Hi J Mirra !
Could you tell me the main difference betwin the SA-1  and rnhp in sonic perspective idee you dont mind plus ?
I am betwin those two amp for my elex.
Thanx


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## lightoflight

roderickvd said:


> The SA-1 has two Meanwell IRM-20-15 switching mode power supplies. Their typical AC current is specified as 0.6A @ 115VAC and 0.4A @ 230VAC (in-rush being much higher at 20A and 40A respectively). So total 1.2A @ 115VAC or 0.8A @ 230VAC. You may want a little headroom in the current rating, because the SMPS may impose a lot of pulses on the fuse. I think a 1.6A slow-blow fuse will be fine.


Great! Thank you for that information.


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## Mansinthe86

Oh Boy... 
When I see reviews like this I unsubscribe from a Channel.


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## Mark200 (Jun 11, 2022)

Mansinthe86 said:


> Oh Boy...
> When I see reviews like this I unsubscribe from a Channel.


On the contrary, I think it was a *very *accurate review based on A/B listening tests. However, he didn't mention the jumper mod to bypass the capacitors, so maybe that accounts for his (and my) opinion that the sound is a bit warm and soft.

My concern about the A90 was that it seemed to have a more than average number of reliability problems as reported by purchasers on retail websites that allow customer reviews.


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## Alex May

Mark200 said:


> My concern about the A90 was that it seemed to have a more than average number of reliability problems as reported on some on retail websites that allow customer reviews.


No more than any other amp, especially made in China. I reckon no one has abolished such useful practices as warranty, cooling-off and DOA returns.


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## hottyson (Jun 11, 2022)

Mansinthe86 said:


> Oh Boy...
> When I see reviews like this I unsubscribe from a Channel.


You guys got me to watch this Joshua Valour video. It was extremely painful to watch as is all of his videos.

First of all, he likes the Topping A90. Topping is built out of crap. Don't trust anyone that recommends Topping. They are garbage and poorly designed/constructed amplifiers constructed of piss poor parts.

Next, he likes the THX 789. The THX789 is able to have a silent sound floor for low $, but the THX circuitry deadens sound. If one is poor and on a budget, sure you save money on a THX 789 if you can't hear any difference. Those of you that have listened to many headphone amplifiers can probably hear this. Just purchase a different budget headphone amp if you are on a budget.

Lastly. Even though I cannot stand watching Joshua Valour videos, he is correct that the competition at this price point beats it. Just not the Topping A90 which is garbage, and not the THX 789 which sounds bad. Instead, the two amplifiers that can beat the Singxer SA-1 the Schiit Jotunheim 2 at $400 and the Rebel Audio RebelAmp at $660. The Schiit Jotunheim 2 sounding better than the Singxer SA-1 most of the time and the Rebel Audio RebelAmp sound better than the Singxer SA-1 almost all of the time.

I hope I never have to watch another Joshua Valour video, but at least he got this one partially right.


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## Mark200

hottyson said:


> First of all, he likes the Topping A90. Topping is built out of crap. Don't trust anyone that recommends Topping. They are garbage and poorly designed/constructed with piss poor parts.


I reached the same conclusion about the A90 based on higher than average reliability problems reported by purchasers on retail web sites. However, I don't think Joshua evaluates equipment by taking them apart to evaluate the quality of components, he just listens to them, and on that score I think he got things pretty accurate in that the SA-1 is a bit warm, especially since it appears he didn't install the jumpers to bypass the capacitors.


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## Mark200

Alex May said:


> No more than any other amp, especially made in China. I reckon no one has abolished such useful practices as warranty, cooling-off and DOA returns.


My comments about A90 reliability was based on reading customer reviews on sites like Amazon, and it appeared to me that they had a higher than average number of problems, and some problems getting warranty service. Since some of them are shipped directly from China where there is no USA distributor to handle warranty claims. But if you get it from a USA distributor like Apos, then that would probably be OK.


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## TheMiddleSky

hottyson said:


> You guys got me to watch this Joshua Valour video. It was extremely painful to watch as is all of his videos.
> 
> First of all, he likes the Topping A90. Topping is built out of crap. Don't trust anyone that recommends Topping. They are garbage and poorly designed/constructed amplifiers constructed of piss poor parts.
> 
> ...



Agree on THX topic. Lukewarm about topping discussion. Disagree with Jotunheim 2 vs Singxer.

Singxer does produce closer to neutral character, better clarity, micro detail, and throw more spacious soundstage. Yes, Jotun2 produce stronger impact with thicker body, but also narrower presentation and not as detailed as Singxer. Synergy with the system is the key.


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## Mansinthe86

hottyson said:


> You guys got me to watch this Joshua Valour video. It was extremely painful to watch as is all of his videos.
> 
> First of all, he likes the Topping A90. Topping is built out of crap. Don't trust anyone that recommends Topping. They are garbage and poorly designed/constructed amplifiers constructed of piss poor parts.
> 
> ...




Rebel amp is single ended. Kinda useless to me. I run all my headphones balanced.

And it's $660 + shipping and tax (19%). So it's more like a $800 amp.

The Singxer SA1 was 499 euros ($525 )


It's similar with the jotenheim 2..$460 + tax and it's a $540 amp.


The Singxer has full EU warranty.


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## hottyson (Jun 11, 2022)

TheMiddleSky said:


> Lukewarm about topping discussion.


Let me give you an example:
Topping has stated that if you remove the knob on the A90 and many other of their amps, it can break the solder joints between the potentiometer and the circuit board. They also state that their installation at their factory it also sometimes breaks the connection. This is due to them spending as little money as possible on crappy potentiometers and knobs that press fit to install. This is probably what killed my Topping L30 and burned up and killed my headphones. Topping sells this crap knowing all too well that they cut corners and have a horrible quality product.






TheMiddleSky said:


> Disagree with Jotunheim 2 vs Singxer.
> Synergy with the system is the key.


I shall have to revisit these two A vs. B now that I have better DACs. Back when I was using under $400 DACs, the Singxer SA-1 synergized  better with Monolith M1570, Hifiman HE560, Fostex T50RP, Fostex T60RP and most Beyerdynamics. The Jotunheim 2 synergized better with Audeze LCD-X, Hifiman Ananda, Hifiman HE6se V2 and most Sennheisers. I also have a bunch more headphones now that I could throw into the mix.
.
Actually, perhaps I shall hook up about thirty of my relevant to today amps and have a fifty headphone shootout to rate all of my headphones for each amp. This would be a huge undertaking but I think very useful for many on selecting which amp for each headphone.


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## hottyson

hottyson said:


> Topping


I found the exact quote from Topping Rep himself:
“The removal process could have degraded the pot further(I’m very certain it has, and again with reinstalling). (Also the pot is fully customized, you almost are not able to find exact replacement for the pot, 5k 4gang 5% -60db tracking) So this is not recommended for everyone else. Also as I posted earlier it’s clearly described and explained. It is the pot itself. But it’s caused by external forced applied to the pot during the knob installation process. Some ended up requiring less force some with more. So the end result is some units may exhibit this behavior. But like many others have said, it’s acceptable and doesn’t affect the performance itself of the volume control.”

So, knowing full well that amps may arrive DOA, Topping still sells them. Do you see why I say don't trust anyone that recommends Topping.


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## Angel III

hottyson said:


> You guys got me to watch this Joshua Valour video. It was extremely painful to watch as is all of his videos.
> 
> First of all, he likes the Topping A90. Topping is built out of crap. Don't trust anyone that recommends Topping. They are garbage and poorly designed/constructed amplifiers constructed of piss poor parts.
> 
> ...


It seems like a competition to me as to who produces the amplifier with the lowest THD (indeed ultra-low).
I think that in most of these op amps, there is a trade-off between minimizing THD and making a neutral extreme, it could be a plus to bring out more micro-detail. In my opinion these amplifiers sound empty and in any case not similar to reality, a bad high fidelity but with perfect measures (suitable for those who want to get bored instead of listening to music). I prefer my amplifiers which mathematically will have more distortion, but faithfully replicate the sound of musical instruments and a faithful listening perception when in a small or very large room.

Competent amplifier builders know the best audio compromise to achieve and years to build them.. so they will never churn out precarious amps every six months.👋


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## Friskyseal

I enjoyed watching the video; I don’t think it’s as negative as I expected, but the utility of it seems to me to be very low. It really is nothing more than one person’s opinion, but the focus on measurements is very strange to me. At this price range and above, there is simply no replacement for auditioning the equipment for yourself to see if it meets your sonic and aesthetic preferences. The vast majority of people (non-audiophiles) are not likely to be able to detect any significant differences. Therefore, the focus on value in regards to +/- a hundred (or a few hundred) dollars seems irrelevant to me. The people that are going to spend $300+ on an amp are not going to choose one that’s a tiny bit cheaper if they don’t like how it sounds to them, subjectively.

For instance, I auditioned Jotunheim 2 alongside my Bifrost 2. It sounded fine to me and I thought it looked gorgeous, but it had a fatal flaw for me in that it was so powerful that the range of usable volume was extremely low. With my Elex, it was basically unusable fully balanced because I had about a half hour of volume range before it became uncomfortably loud. In that sense, it could not even perform its core function, so how it sounded was totally irrelevant.

The SA-1 was $200 more, solved this issue for me with its slightly lower power and logarithmic volume pot, and sounded more refined and musical to me. At $600 it seemed fair enough of a value in the context of the $700 Bifrost 2. It could have been $300 or $700, I don’t know, but it’s about what I was looking for at this stage of the hobby so it’s what I kept. This was even before I performed the jumper mod.

I would be curious to try out the Burson Soloist 3XP, it’s probably the maximum price I would ever spend on an amp, but keeping the simple black aesthetic is important to me and the Burson is only available in (ugly, IMO) silver. It doesn’t matter to me how it sounds, because I would never buy it solely based on how it looks.

To my fortunate surprise, performing the jumper mod on the SA-1 results in a big jump in performance—to the extent that I can no longer listen to it without the mod. It results in an overall more vivid sound, with punchier bass, clearer midrange, and a much more detailed and defined treble. Just to pick an arbitrary number, it feels like a $200 jump in performance, making the SA-1 an even better value than it was before. It’s the kind of jump that I would anticipate if I tried out the $1200 Burson, but in the form factor that I was already happy with. However, if I wasn’t happy with the SA-1 right out of the box, I would have sent it back for sure.


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## NascentAP

In my experience, SA-1 clearly does not play nice with my HD6xx (unfortunately, I do not have a HD660S to contribute directly to the ongoing discussion). It sounds like a muffled muddy mess with all balanced connection and it surprisingly sounds marginally better via all SE. My guess is that the frequency response gets altered with the SA-1 and gets worse with increased power. 

HD6xx opens up on the littledot mk2 and sounds like the veil is gone with amazing midrange and the best timbre I’ve ever heard. I think as TheMiddlesky allude to, this is probably signal-chain dependent and that SA-1 synergizes well with Hifiman cans but perhaps not so much sennheisers.


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## hottyson

NascentAP said:


> HD6xx opens up on the littledot mk2 and sounds like the veil is gone with amazing midrange and the best timbre I’ve ever heard. I think as TheMiddlesky allude to, this is probably signal-chain dependent and that SA-1 synergizes well with Hifiman cans but perhaps not so much sennheisers.


I have tons of solid state amplifiers. I cannot find a single one the pairs well with the Sennheiser Drop HD6XX. The only way for me to get any performance out of them are OTL tube amplifiers. I have had decent results with my Darkvoice 336se and Little Dot Mkiii and very good results with my Ray Samuels Emmeline II The Raptor using special tube combinations.


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## MacMan31

NascentAP said:


> In my experience, SA-1 clearly does not play nice with my HD6xx (unfortunately, I do not have a HD660S to contribute directly to the ongoing discussion). It sounds like a muffled muddy mess with all balanced connection and it surprisingly sounds marginally better via all SE. My guess is that the frequency response gets altered with the SA-1 and gets worse with increased power.
> 
> HD6xx opens up on the littledot mk2 and sounds like the veil is gone with amazing midrange and the best timbre I’ve ever heard. I think as TheMiddlesky allude to, this is probably signal-chain dependent and that SA-1 synergizes well with Hifiman cans but perhaps not so much sennheisers.





hottyson said:


> I have tons of solid state amplifiers. I cannot find a single one the pairs well with the Sennheiser Drop HD6XX. The only way for me to get any performance out of them are OTL tube amplifiers. I have had decent results with my Darkvoice 336se and Little Dot Mkiii and very good results with my Ray Samuels Emmeline II The Raptor using special tube combinations.



This makes me reconsider getting an SA-1. I have the HD6XX along with ZMF Aeolus and now an HD800S. Currently I have the Bifrost 2 -> Jot 2 and Feliks Audio Echo MKII. I'm swapping between the Echo and BottleHead Crack to compare them. The Jot 2 is great but the SA-1 seems to get pretty high praise so I have been curious to try it. The Jot 2 can be a bit heavy in the bass so perhaps a more neutral amp would be better.


----------



## Friskyseal

MacMan31 said:


> This makes me reconsider getting an SA-1. I have the HD6XX along with ZMF Aeolus and now an HD800S. Currently I have the Bifrost 2 -> Jot 2 and Feliks Audio Echo MKII. I'm swapping between the Echo and BottleHead Crack to compare them. The Jot 2 is great but the SA-1 seems to get pretty high praise so I have been curious to try it. The Jot 2 can be a bit heavy in the bass so perhaps a more neutral amp would be better.



I love my HD6XX with my Bifrost 2 > SA-1.  The only caveat I would have is that I peronally believe the Sennheiser 6 series sounds better _single-ended. _The 600 and 650 are supposed to be smooth, intimate headphones and I feel like using them with XLR cables pulls apart the soundstage artificially and imparts aggressive dynamics that don't fit the character of the headphones. I came to this conclusion with both Jot 2 and SA-1 so I don't think it's an amp-specific thing. I don't feel this way with any other headphone or IEM; everything sounds superior balanced _except _600 and 650. On Reddit I get downvoted to oblivion for suggesting balanced operation changes anything besides volume but this is my honest finding.

Also, I don't think the SA-1 has less bass than Jot 2. It is overall smoother and less aggressive (from memory) but I would still describe the Bifrost 2 > SA-1 chain as "bass-forward."


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## MacMan31

Friskyseal said:


> I love my HD6XX with my Bifrost 2 > SA-1.  The only caveat I would have is that I peronally believe the Sennheiser 6 series sounds better _single-ended. _The 600 and 650 are supposed to be smooth, intimate headphones and I feel like using them with XLR cables pulls apart the soundstage artificially and imparts aggressive dynamics that don't fit the character of the headphones. I came to this conclusion with both Jot 2 and SA-1 so I don't think it's an amp-specific thing. I don't feel this way with any other headphone or IEM; everything sounds superior balanced _except _600 and 650. On Reddit I get downvoted to oblivion for suggesting balanced operation changes anything besides volume but this is my honest finding.
> 
> Also, I don't think the SA-1 has less bass than Jot 2. It is overall smoother and less aggressive (from memory) but I would still describe the Bifrost 2 > SA-1 chain as "bass-forward."



So would you say the SA-1 is more of a side grade instead of an upgrade from the Jot 2?


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## hottyson (Jun 12, 2022)

MacMan31 said:


> This makes me reconsider getting an SA-1. I have the HD6XX along with ZMF Aeolus and now an HD800S. Currently I have the Bifrost 2 -> Jot 2 and Feliks Audio Echo MKII. I'm swapping between the Echo and BottleHead Crack to compare them. The Jot 2 is great but the SA-1 seems to get pretty high praise so I have been curious to try it. The Jot 2 can be a bit heavy in the bass so perhaps a more neutral amp would be better.


Out of all headphones, my favorite headphone is my ZMF Aeolus. It sounds wonderful from the Schiit Jotunheim 2 amplifier, but only when I put the gain switch set to low gain. Have you tried low gain? I would just stick with the Jotunheim 2 in low gain in your case.

My top amplifiers of my collection to pair with the ZMF Aeolus headphones using Bifrost 2 DAC are:
A+ Ray Samuels Emmeline HR-2 (AD825 opamps installed)
A   Ray Samuels  Emmeline II The Raptor Tube
A   Darkvoice 336SE
A- Ray Samuels Emmeline XP-7 (AD825 opamps installed)
A- Questyle CMA Twelve
A- Jotunheim 2 (low gain only)

Average or below acceptable performance amps, in order of preference using Bifrost 2 DAC:

Schiit Lyr 3
Drop x Alex Cavalli Tube Hybrid Amp (CTH)
Singxer SA-1  needs more bite in the treble in order to come alive, but mids flow smoothly, it is fuller rounder compared to Cavalli Hybrid
Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk 2
Drop THX AAA 789
LCX +SDAC
RebelAmp
Not up to par grade D

Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk1
Schiit Asgard 3
Fail grade F

Beyerdynamic A20
SMSL SP200
I would think that your BottleHead Crack would be great with the Sennheiser Drop HD6XX if you rolled some tubes to find what synergizes with them.


----------



## Mansinthe86

Or you just use a Equilizer. Instead of having a crazy collection of amps.


----------



## hottyson (Jun 12, 2022)

Mansinthe86 said:


> Or you just use a Equilizer. Instead of having a crazy collection of amps.


I use equalization with all of my amplifiers.
Some people simply don't hear the difference between a Ray Samuels Emmeline HR-2 and an SMSL SP200. They will save lots of money.


----------



## MacMan31

hottyson said:


> Out of all headphones, my favorite headphone is my ZMF Aeolus. It sounds wonderful from the Schiit Jotunheim 2 amplifier, but only when I put the gain switch set to low gain. Have you tried low gain? I would just stick with the Jotunheim 2 in low gain in your case.
> 
> My top amplifiers of my collection to pair with the ZMF Aeolus headphones using Bifrost 2 DAC are:
> A+ Ray Samuels Emmeline HR-2 (AD825 opamps installed)
> ...



I never have to use high gain on my amps as I never need to turn the volume up past 12 o'clock. Yes my Aeolus and HD6XX sound great on tube amps. But it's nice to have a good solid state amp so I'm not burning away the tubes as quickly.


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 12, 2022)

NascentAP said:


> In my experience, SA-1 clearly does not play nice with my HD6xx (unfortunately, I do not have a HD660S to contribute directly to the ongoing discussion). It sounds like a muffled muddy mess with all balanced connection and it surprisingly sounds marginally better via all SE. My guess is that the frequency response gets altered with the SA-1 and gets worse with increased power.
> 
> HD6xx opens up on the littledot mk2 and sounds like the veil is gone with amazing midrange and the best timbre I’ve ever heard. I think as TheMiddlesky allude to, this is probably signal-chain dependent and that SA-1 synergizes well with Hifiman cans but perhaps not so much sennheisers.


High impedance headphones such as the HD6XX (300 ohms) thrive on h/p/a that have high output impedance / high voltage swing capability. This means, for the most part, tube h/p/a: transformer-coupled or transformer-less. [Solid-state h/p/a that do match well with high impedance headphones are Phonitor and Violectric.]


----------



## jonathan c

Mansinthe86 said:


> Or you just use a Equilizer. Instead of having a crazy collection of amps.


A headphone amplifier collection is _fun _!!


----------



## roderickvd (Jun 12, 2022)

I have 250 ohm Beyers that pair great with the SA-1. I have them in Lo-Z and low gain. Comfortable listening is around 12 o’clock. At maximum value it’s not comfortable anymore.


----------



## NascentAP

hottyson said:


> I have tons of solid state amplifiers. I cannot find a single one the pairs well with the Sennheiser Drop HD6XX. The only way for me to get any performance out of them are OTL tube amplifiers. I have had decent results with my Darkvoice 336se and Little Dot Mkiii and very good results with my Ray Samuels Emmeline II The Raptor using special tube combinations.


Interesting. I’ve tried several myself and my experience is similar. From memory (big caveat), I remember monoprice liquid spark sounding the best (non OTLs) out of my limited entry to mid-fi gear, but can’t remember if the relativity effect is at play here (ie whether I was listening to a particularly sounding headphone just prior that influenced my impression). Do you have liquid spark in you possession and if so, do you remember how the 6xx sounded with it?


----------



## TheMiddleSky

Friskyseal said:


> Also, I don't think the SA-1 has less bass than Jot 2. It is overall smoother and less aggressive (from memory) but I would still describe the Bifrost 2 > SA-1 chain as "bass-forward."



Singxer is not thin sounding by any means, however Jotun 2 does fuller mid bass punch (While both of amps retain close to neutral presentation of course, not bass head). Something that I consider thin sounding would be any amps from SMSL. 



hottyson said:


> Out of all headphones, my favorite headphone is my ZMF Aeolus. It sounds wonderful from the Schiit Jotunheim 2 amplifier, but only when I put the gain switch set to low gain. Have you tried low gain? I would just stick with the Jotunheim 2 in low gain in your case.
> 
> My top amplifiers of my collection to pair with the ZMF Aeolus headphones using Bifrost 2 DAC are:
> A+ Ray Samuels Emmeline HR-2 (AD825 opamps installed)
> ...



Nice to see some RSA still kicking these days. Back in the day, the portable Mustang was my most favourite. 

At around 2019 I also run ZMF Aeolus through CMA 12. Terrific pairing.


----------



## NascentAP

Friskyseal said:


> I love my HD6XX with my Bifrost 2 > SA-1.  The only caveat I would have is that I peronally believe the Sennheiser 6 series sounds better _single-ended. _The 600 and 650 are supposed to be smooth, intimate headphones and I feel like using them with XLR cables pulls apart the soundstage artificially and imparts aggressive dynamics that don't fit the character of the headphones. I came to this conclusion with both Jot 2 and SA-1 so I don't think it's an amp-specific thing. I don't feel this way with any other headphone or IEM; everything sounds superior balanced _except _600 and 650. On Reddit I get downvoted to oblivion for suggesting balanced operation changes anything besides volume but this is my honest finding.
> 
> Also, I don't think the SA-1 has less bass than Jot 2. It is overall smoother and less aggressive (from memory) but I would still describe the Bifrost 2 > SA-1 chain as "bass-forward."


I should’ve done a better job of describing my experience with the 6xx and Sa-1. I realized early on that clearly prefer the airy detail that Hifiman and some electrostats provide and immediate noticed the sennheiser veil that ppl talk about. Therefore, I should’ve made it clear that criticism of the 6xx has everything to do with my preference in sound. It is interesting that you found that SE sounds better on the 6xx as well though.


----------



## hottyson (Jun 12, 2022)

NascentAP said:


> Interesting. I’ve tried several myself and my experience is similar. From memory (big caveat), I remember monoprice liquid spark sounding the best (non OTLs) out of my limited entry to mid-fi gear, but can’t remember if the relativity effect is at play here (ie whether I was listening to a particularly sounding headphone just prior that influenced my impression). Do you have liquid spark in you possession and if so, do you remember how the 6xx sounded with it?


I have three Liquid Spark amps. One for each of my Beyerdynamic DT series headphones, which they pair well with.






I hooked one of the Liquid Spark amps up just now for a quick comparison. Next to it is a Schiit Bifrost 2/Jotunheim and a couple of Darkvoice 336SE. One Darkvoice with wet driver tube and other with bright driver tube.




The Sennheiser veil was in full force on both solid state amps. The Liquid Spark had less resolved detail as expected at its price range. The Jotunheim 2 had more prominent mids than any of the setups, but that veil just killed it for me. No go for either solid state amps so I would not pair either.

Moving to the tube amps, things got really good! Veil all but disappeared and the bright tube brought out balance and sparkly clarity. The wet tube brought fun smoothness. Tubes were a success!


----------



## MacMan31

Friskyseal said:


> I love my HD6XX with my Bifrost 2 > SA-1.  The only caveat I would have is that I peronally believe the Sennheiser 6 series sounds better _single-ended. _The 600 and 650 are supposed to be smooth, intimate headphones and I feel like using them with XLR cables pulls apart the soundstage artificially and imparts aggressive dynamics that don't fit the character of the headphones. I came to this conclusion with both Jot 2 and SA-1 so I don't think it's an amp-specific thing. I don't feel this way with any other headphone or IEM; everything sounds superior balanced _except _600 and 650. On Reddit I get downvoted to oblivion for suggesting balanced operation changes anything besides volume but this is my honest finding.
> 
> Also, I don't think the SA-1 has less bass than Jot 2. It is overall smoother and less aggressive (from memory) but I would still describe the Bifrost 2 > SA-1 chain as "bass-forward."



Coming back to this comment about the SE sounding better on the Jot 2 with the HD6XX. I might have to agree. However how can you make a truly fair comparison when the volume is louder out of the XLR than the SE with the volume knob at the same setting?


----------



## Friskyseal

MacMan31 said:


> Coming back to this comment about the SE sounding better on the Jot 2 with the HD6XX. I might have to agree. However how can you make a truly fair comparison when the volume is louder out of the XLR than the SE with the volume knob at the same setting?



Oh I volume match, of course. I have very sensitive hearing so I always listen at the lowest possible volume, no matter what. I have a little (joking) heuristic where I say: find a comfortable volume and then cut it in half, then, just to be safe—cut it in half again!

I also want to clarify that when I listen to HD6XX SE, I am running "fully single ended" with the source being the SE outs of the Bifrost 2. I have the exact same cables for XLR and RCA so I just flip the input switch on the front of SA-1 whenever I plug in my 6XX.


----------



## Friskyseal

MacMan31 said:


> So would you say the SA-1 is more of a side grade instead of an upgrade from the Jot 2?



Pretty much, yeah. If you like and already own the Jot 2, I don't think the SA-1 is worth the extra $200. When you say you're looking for more neutrality, it makes me think you want something a a little leaner and brighter, which the SA-1 is not. It's smoother and more refined, maybe a hair more detailed, but I would still describe it as warm-tilted. If you're looking for an upgrade that is straight neutral, from what I've read it seems like the Burson Soloist 3XP would be the one to look at.


----------



## MacMan31

Friskyseal said:


> Pretty much, yeah. If you like and already own the Jot 2, I don't think the SA-1 is worth the extra $200. When you say you're looking for more neutrality, it makes me think you want something a a little leaner and brighter, which the SA-1 is not. It's smoother and more refined, maybe a hair more detailed, but I would still describe it as warm-tilted. If you're looking for an upgrade that is straight neutral, from what I've read it seems like the Burson Soloist 3XP would be the one to look at.



Is there a noticeable difference between the 3XP and 3X GT?


----------



## Friskyseal

MacMan31 said:


> Is there a noticeable difference between the 3XP and 3X GT?



Sorry, I have no idea! I'm just sharing what I've gleaned from here and Youtube. I haven't heard either.


----------



## roderickvd

lightoflight said:


> The Gustard fuses are fairly cheap compared to other audiophile grade fuses and I feel it's worth a try. However, Gustard fuses does not have a 2 amp rating version, maybe their 1.6 amp might work?


Though I always have been skeptical about audibility of fuses, I was able to get a Gustard fuse with a discount, and was tempted to satisfy my curiosity. I now learned that:

a 1.6A fuse is fine on 230V 50Hz;
I hear no audible difference.


----------



## lightoflight

roderickvd said:


> Though I always have been skeptical about audibility of fuses, I was able to get a Gustard fuse with a discount, and was tempted to satisfy my curiosity. I now learned that:
> 
> a 1.6A fuse is fine on 230V 50Hz;
> I hear no audible difference.


Boy, that was quick. Mine will be here in a couple of weeks or so. Thanks for your feedback. I'm curious of what headphone did you used for the evaluation?


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## roderickvd

Yeah I got one from a local vendor, not from our friendly Chinese web store. Headphones are 250 ohm balanced Beyerdynamic Amiron Home.


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## Tazyn (Jun 16, 2022)

lightoflight With my headphones Snorry Si-1 the changes from Gustard are audible. It looks like you also have good isodynamic headphones, I think you will hear the change.


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## MykeHBM

I got a SA-1 off ebay but sadly it got damaged in post. It powers on but then the blue light goes red and there is no sound out the rca speaker terminals SE headphone jack or the 4.4 headphone jack
Any ideas if it can repaired or is it dead on arrival?


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## Mark200 (Jun 16, 2022)

MykeHBM said:


> I got a SA-1 off ebay but sadly it got damaged in post. It powers on but then the blue light goes red and there is no sound out the rca speaker terminals SE headphone jack or the 4.4 headphone jack
> Any ideas if it can repaired or is it dead on arrival?


Are you sure it is connected correctly? The RCA "terminals" are not speaker connections, but are line level going to a amplifier when the SA-1 is used only as a pre-amp. Also, on the front panel there is a switch for selecting line level out (to an amplifier) or to send the signal to the internal amplifier and out the front speaker jacks. Make sure you it selected correctly. To use the SA-1 as a headphone amp, set the middle of the 3 switches to the HPA position. Then try your headphones.


----------



## MykeHBM

My mistake I meant the rca out were connected to my speaker amp. Yes checked all the switches to make sure things were correct and I had no sound from any output, as I said earlier when I turned on the amp it had a blue light then it went red after about 3 seconds.


----------



## Mark200

MykeHBM said:


> My mistake I meant the rca out were connected to my speaker amp. Yes checked all the switches to make sure things were correct and I had no sound from any output, as I said earlier when I turned on the amp it had a blue light then it went red after about 3 seconds.


I guess you should return it via eBay policy for DOA product.


----------



## MykeHBM

Mark200 said:


> I guess you should return it via eBay policy for DOA product.


I already got a refund from the seller so just waiting to see what happens but was wondering if there was a way to fix it stays in my possession.


----------



## lightoflight

Tazyn said:


> lightoflight With my headphones Snorry Si-1 the changes from Gustard are audible. It looks like you also have good isodynamic headphones, I think you will hear the change.


I am hoping to detect a difference and I'll provide an impression once I do an evaluation. Thanks for your feedback.


----------



## Magol79

MykeHBM said:


> I already got a refund from the seller so just waiting to see what happens but was wondering if there was a way to fix it stays in my possession.


Try another power cable. The one that came with mine had a tendency to come loose easily. That resulted in the red light every so often. I changed it for another power cable and the problem went away.


----------



## MykeHBM

Magol79 said:


> Try another power cable. The one that came with mine had a tendency to come loose easily. That resulted in the red light every so often. I changed it for another power cable and the problem went away.


Sadly tried it with 3 different power leads and it did the same on all 3 started with a blue light then after 3 - 5 seconds it goes red.


----------



## Mansinthe86

MykeHBM said:


> Sadly tried it with 3 different power leads and it did the same on all 3 started with a blue light then after 3 - 5 seconds it goes red.


The fuse is ok ?


----------



## MykeHBM

Mansinthe86 said:


> The fuse is ok ?


They were both new cables if you mean that so would think they were ok


----------



## dstarr3

I'm going to turn my SA-1 down to low-gain mode next time I rearrange my audio stack. Whereabout on the dial does the amp go from being Class A to Class A/B in low-gain mode? If any of my headphones have me pushing that far, I'll put it back into high-gain.


----------



## roderickvd

When it goes over 80 mA is what I gathered. Where this is on the volume knob, depends on the headphones. You can use an online headphones calculator to calculate where the current lands, given a certain sensitivity, impedance and sound pressure level.


----------



## lightoflight

lightoflight said:


> I am hoping to detect a difference and I'll provide an impression once I do an evaluation. Thanks for your feedback.


I have them in after 2 and a half weeks. For more context, I'm upgrading the stock fuse to a Gustard hifi 1.6A fuse.

I've taped the volume knob so that it remained unchanged and listened to one song on repeat for a couple of hours before the switch. Using the Qutest and HE1000se, I have detected an improvement in clarity and a slight gain in imaging. Not bad for a $21 USD upgrade.


----------



## gonintendo

I caved and did the jumper mod on mine. For some context, I had a GS-X mini that I sold as I have found myself mostly using my tube amp lately, but I wanted a decent enough solid state amp for the summer months and when I just don't feel like warming up the tube amp (The GS-X and the burson soloist, both of which I've tried out and either sold or returned, run really hot and heat my room up almost as much as a tube amp). I was a bit disappointed with the SA1 at first, I noticed this weird graininess especially noticeable on vocals on my VCs that didn't seem to be present on my LCD-2s for some reason, and that has entirely gone away after installing the jumpers. I really feel like it made a huge difference and I now find this amp to be really enjoyable with both my ZMFs and Audezes. I would still say the GS-X mini is a better amp, but doing the jumper mod brought it MUCH closer to the sound of the GS-X to the point where I honestly don't really miss it much. The singxer actually has some qualities which I prefer, like the bass is a bit punchier (I always felt the GS-X sounded a bit lean in the bass compared to other amps, but the reason I kept it for a while is that it made up for it with its midrange and treble detail). It's definitely less detailed than the GS-X but tonally it's really nice and it meshes nicely with my gear.


----------



## yaps66

gonintendo said:


> I caved and did the jumper mod on mine. For some context, I had a GS-X mini that I sold as I have found myself mostly using my tube amp lately, but I wanted a decent enough solid state amp for the summer months and when I just don't feel like warming up the tube amp (The GS-X and the burson soloist, both of which I've tried out and either sold or returned, run really hot and heat my room up almost as much as a tube amp). I was a bit disappointed with the SA1 at first, I noticed this weird graininess especially noticeable on vocals on my VCs that didn't seem to be present on my LCD-2s for some reason, and that has entirely gone away after installing the jumpers. I really feel like it made a huge difference and I now find this amp to be really enjoyable with both my ZMFs and Audezes. I would still say the GS-X mini is a better amp, but doing the jumper mod brought it MUCH closer to the sound of the GS-X to the point where I honestly don't really miss it much. The singxer actually has some qualities which I prefer, like the bass is a bit punchier (I always felt the GS-X sounded a bit lean in the bass compared to other amps, but the reason I kept it for a while is that it made up for it with its midrange and treble detail). It's definitely less detailed than the GS-X but tonally it's really nice and it meshes nicely with my gear.


Thanks for sharing! Very useful information!


----------



## OhmsClaw

lightoflight said:


> I have them in after 2 and a half weeks. For more context, I'm upgrading the stock fuse to a Gustard hifi 1.6A fuse.
> 
> I've taped the volume knob so that it remained unchanged and listened to one song on repeat for a couple of hours before the switch. Using the Qutest and HE1000se, I have detected an improvement in clarity and a slight gain in imaging. Not bad for a $21 USD upgrade.


How.


----------



## OhmsClaw

roderickvd said:


> Though I always have been skeptical about audibility of fuses, I was able to get a Gustard fuse with a discount, and was tempted to satisfy my curiosity. I now learned that:
> 
> a 1.6A fuse is fine on 230V 50Hz;
> I hear no audible difference.


It's a safety device. Not a filter. It's also transformer powered, so there's DC isolation from the mains but transients will remain. 

Unless you have grounding issues or the device is poorly engineered there is no mains hum leakage. 

Hope that didn't cost more than a large pizza 🤣


----------



## lightoflight

OhmsClaw said:


> How.


Technically how? I don't know. I would guess there's a voltage variance.


----------



## OhmsClaw (Jul 19, 2022)

lightoflight said:


> Technically how? I don't know. I would guess there's a voltage variance.


In the safety device with next to no resistance, virtually no capacitance or inductance, in-between the wall power and the power supply... designed to fast or slow blow in the event of an over current condition from an unregulated surge... not connected to the audio path, not filtering mains ripple... 

This like claiming getting a new gas cap added horsepower to your vehicle and really Improved the low end torque.

Edit: people will spend money how they see fit, however there is no such thing as audiophile grade components. There are only high quality components which have the characteristics of reliability, tight tolerances, and high precision over similarly spec'd components with wide tolerances, high failure rates, low temperature stability and cheap production. 

In terms of a fuse, you want reliability. A device which blows within a specified overcurrent to protect the rest of the components in the device. Nothing more. A poor fuse may allow damaging current past prior to opening up as designed. It will not alter anything audible. If you wish, seek a line conditioner to mitigate 50/60Hz harmonics or invest in a dedicated, clean powersupply.


----------



## lightoflight (Jul 20, 2022)

OhmsClaw said:


> In the safety device with next to no resistance, virtually no capacitance or inductance, in-between the wall power and the power supply... designed to fast or slow blow in the event of an over current condition from an unregulated surge... not connected to the audio path, not filtering mains ripple...
> 
> This like claiming getting a new gas cap added horsepower to your vehicle and really Improved the low end torque.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your opinion, my fuse experiment with the SA-1 was a fun budgeted project of $21 USD, and the outcome was I heard a positive difference in the sound. I've enjoyed the whole journey from the beginning to the end, and I wanted to share the outcome as a witness.

I was a little curious in the beginning after the experiment as to why there was a change in the sound, and I came across this video on YouTube from PS Audio.



When Paul from PS Audio couldn't explain why a hifi fuse has a positive impact on sound, I felt I didn't need to research any further and just enjoy the new sound of the SA-1.  The SA-1 is such a fun amp to tinker with; by far my best purchase.


----------



## dstarr3

I picked up a bag of those jumpers for like, a buck, intending that some day I'd eventually toy around with the jumper mod. Now that I'm thinking more about it, I kind of would rather put the pins that the jumper bridges on a switch, so I can more easily do an A/B. Or at least slap some Dupont connectors on those pins so I can route some wires outside the case so I can bridge them and unbridge them without taking the amp apart.


----------



## OhmsClaw

lightoflight said:


> I appreciate your opinion, my fuse experiment with the SA-1 was a fun budgeted project of $21 USD, and the outcome was I heard a positive difference in the sound. I've enjoyed the whole journey from the beginning to the end, and I wanted to share the outcome as a witness.
> 
> I was a little curious in the beginning after the experiment as to why there was a change in the sound, and I came across this video on YouTube from PS Audio.
> 
> ...



I like Paul. But he has some very esoteric beliefs not grounded in science. I'm torn between the SA-1 and a black Jott 2. It's the most difficult decision I'll make this year (so far. 🤣)


----------



## Mansinthe86

OhmsClaw said:


> I like Paul. But he has some very esoteric beliefs not grounded in science. I'm torn between the SA-1 and a black Jott 2. It's the most difficult decision I'll make this year (so far. 🤣)


Get the one you are able to purchase for less money. If I were in the U.S. I would get the jott2.

In the EU it was the SA1 for me. Full local warranty and cheaper


----------



## Tazyn (Jul 21, 2022)

I can recommend an inexpensive power filter based on which you can assemble the basis for powering the amplifier, DAC and PC.
https://aliexpress.ru/item/10050022...0077184&spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.33d245f7fQvJ0P
This filter is better than the offered ready-made assemblies in the range of $ 70-100. A similar filter assembly will cost $ 200-220 (at least in my country). Before this filter, I had already bought a ready-made one for $ 80 and it was a complete disappointment (although it was well assembled and was based on a toroidal transformer), it not only did not improve the sound, but also managed to make the sound worse (returned to the store). The changes will be approximately equal to replacing the fuse with gustard.


----------



## houdini06

Guys for USA Singxer fuse is slow blow 2A ? Would it be ok


----------



## lightoflight (Jul 21, 2022)

houdini06 said:


> Guys for USA Singxer fuse is slow blow 2A ? Would it be ok


Yes, stock fuse is slow blow 2A 250V.


----------



## houdini06

lightoflight said:


> Yes, stock fuse is slow blow 2A.



Thank you for the response.


----------



## thugnificent

Whats a good DAC to pair with this amp? Have a pair of He6se-v2 that I plan to use with it.


----------



## hottyson (Aug 7, 2022)

thugnificent said:


> Whats a good DAC to pair with this amp? Have a pair of He6se-v2 that I plan to use with it.


The Singxer SA-1 does not pair well with the Hifiman HE6se V2. The combination of those two tend to gravitate to muffled, stifled soundstage, and reduced dynamics when compared to a better paired amp such as a Rebel Audio Rebel Amp or even a Schiit Jotunheim 2 or Schiit Jotunheim 1. So I would not expect to squeeze very much performance out of any DAC with the two you mentioned.




Update: This post was incorrect. Please see my follow up post https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sin...e-class-a-beyond-thx-888.952074/post-17086203


----------



## JohanE

Got my new Singxer SA-1 today. Pairing it with a Topping D70S.
Headphones are Hifiman Ananda and Focal Clear OG.
So far it sounds great! Very happy!


----------



## yaps66

JohanE said:


> Got my new Singxer SA-1 today. Pairing it with a Topping D70S.
> Headphones are Hifiman Ananda and Focal Clear OG.
> So far it sounds great! Very happy!


That's my exact pairing too! Very happy too!


----------



## JohanE

yaps66 said:


> That's my exact pairing too! Very happy too!



Do you also have the Ananda?  And tried the combination with other headphones as well?


----------



## amiga505

JohanE said:


> Got my new Singxer SA-1 today. Pairing it with a Topping D70S.
> Headphones are Hifiman Ananda and Focal Clear OG.
> So far it sounds great! Very happy!


I see you are running them SE, you're happy with the performance?


----------



## quawn0418 (Aug 5, 2022)

amiga505 said:


> I see you are running them SE, you're happy with the performance?


Yea I’d definitely go balanced with the sa-1, i was never crazy about its single ended performance.


----------



## yaps66

JohanE said:


> Do you also have the Ananda?  And tried the combination with other headphones as well?


No. I meant only the DAC/AMP stack. I am more an iem guy and the only headphone I have is the HE400i.


----------



## JohanE (Aug 6, 2022)

quawn0418 said:


> Yea I’d definitely go balanced with the sa-1, i was never crazy about its single ended performance.


I just tried the balanced original cable that went with my Focal Clear. It sounds much better balanced. So much that I just placed an order from Forza Audioworks for a balanced cable.


----------



## JohanE

amiga505 said:


> I see you are running them SE, you're happy with the performance?



I just tried the balanced original cable that went with my Focal Clear. It sounds much better balanced. So much that I just placed an order from Forza Audioworks for a balanced cable.  SE sounds good too but balanced was another step up!


----------



## wazzupi

Anyone compare singxer to a90 discrete?


----------



## Alex May

wazzupi said:


> Anyone compare singxer to a90 discrete?


These are completely different products with a different approach. One of them is designed to give musicality and warmth to the sound, and the other is a perfect example of a wire with gain, the most non-intrusive amplifier that tends not to interfere with the original sound at all when it is amplified. Do you really think these amplifiers can and should be compared? It's like an apple and a sausage. I reckon Joshua Valour was the only one who tried comparing them. Zeos just labelled them as representatives of different classes of amplifiers when suggested having at least one of each class (a solid state clinical, a tube, and a class A-ish).


----------



## JohanE

I have listened to so much music now since I got my SA-1 that my girlfriend started to complain about sound leakage from my Ananda and Clear.  
That has now given me a reason to add a pair of closed back headphones to the collection. 

Any recommendation about closed back that would pair well with the Singxer SA-1? 
Been looking at Beyerdynamic T5 mk3, Denon AH-D7200, Hifiman HE-R9, Kennerton Magni and Dan Clark Aeon 2 Noire for example.


----------



## dstarr3

JohanE said:


> I have listened to so much music now since I got my SA-1 that my girlfriend started to complain about sound leakage from my Ananda and Clear.
> That has now given me a reason to add a pair of closed back headphones to the collection.
> 
> Any recommendation about closed back that would pair well with the Singxer SA-1?
> Been looking at Beyerdynamic T5 mk3, Denon AH-D7200, Hifiman HE-R9, Kennerton Magni and Dan Clark Aeon 2 Noire for example.


I'm absolutely loving my Teaks and SA-1 combo


----------



## wazzupi

JohanE said:


> I have listened to so much music now since I got my SA-1 that my girlfriend started to complain about sound leakage from my Ananda and Clear.
> That has now given me a reason to add a pair of closed back headphones to the collection.
> 
> Any recommendation about closed back that would pair well with the Singxer SA-1?
> Been looking at Beyerdynamic T5 mk3, Denon AH-D7200, Hifiman HE-R9, Kennerton Magni and Dan Clark Aeon 2 Noire for example.


Rognir for totl closed back


----------



## Mansinthe86

JohanE said:


> I have listened to so much music now since I got my SA-1 that my girlfriend started to complain about sound leakage from my Ananda and Clear.
> That has now given me a reason to add a pair of closed back headphones to the collection.
> 
> Any recommendation about closed back that would pair well with the Singxer SA-1?
> Been looking at Beyerdynamic T5 mk3, Denon AH-D7200, Hifiman HE-R9, Kennerton Magni and Dan Clark Aeon 2 Noire for example.


I'm using the noire with the SA1. 
And I just ordered the meze liric.

They should all work perfectly fine with the SA1


----------



## JohanE

Mansinthe86 said:


> I'm using the noire with the SA1.
> And I just ordered the meze liric.
> 
> They should all work perfectly fine with the SA1


How is the Noire?


----------



## Mansinthe86

JohanE said:


> How is the Noire?




I enjoy them tremendously. But there are plenty of reviews out there that tell you everything you possibly could want to know. 

I would buy them again. Same for the SA1. 

If you are in the US the jotenheim 2 might be a more affordable alternative.


----------



## JohanE

Mansinthe86 said:


> I enjoy them tremendously. But there are plenty of reviews out there that tell you everything you possibly could want to know.
> 
> I would buy them again. Same for the SA1.
> 
> If you are in the US the jotenheim 2 might be a more affordable alternative.


I already own the SA-1.  Now looking for a pair of closed backs for it. Thanks for input about the Noire!


----------



## dstarr3

quawn0418 said:


> Yea I’d definitely go balanced with the sa-1, i was never crazy about its single ended performance.


Yeah, I strongly advise any SA-1 users to start using the balanced output if you're not already. The SA-1's single-ended output, honestly I prefer my Liquid Spark for SE listening. Just more detailed and dynamic. The SA-1's SE output gets beat by amps I've compared that run 1/5 the price. The SA-1's balanced output, however, sounds completely different and is phenomenal if you like a warm, musical sound. The balanced output is why we love this amp and where it far exceeds anything else in its price point. SE output, though, nah, just sounds like a total afterthought.


----------



## Friskyseal

dstarr3 said:


> Yeah, I strongly advise any SA-1 users to start using the balanced output if you're not already. The SA-1's single-ended output, honestly I prefer my Liquid Spark for SE listening. Just more detailed and dynamic. The SA-1's SE output gets beat by amps I've compared that run 1/5 the price. The SA-1's balanced output, however, sounds completely different and is phenomenal if you like a warm, musical sound. The balanced output is why we love this amp and where it far exceeds anything else in its price point. SE output, though, nah, just sounds like a total afterthought.



I disagree, but you need to clarify if you are talking about 1:1 input/output. If you run single-ended in and out, the sound quality is identical if you account for the differences between balanced and unbalanced. However, if you are feeding XLR in and 1/4" out, yes there is a deduction in sound quality because it is only taking a part of the signal. The designer wrote this in the documentation on some forum somewhere.


----------



## dstarr3

Friskyseal said:


> I disagree, but you need to clarify if you are talking about 1:1 input/output. If you run single-ended in and out, the sound quality is identical if you account for the differences between balanced and unbalanced. However, if you are feeding XLR in and 1/4" out, yes there is a deduction in sound quality because it is only taking a part of the signal. The designer wrote this in the documentation on some forum somewhere.


I suppose that is true, I've never fed my SA-1 an unbalanced signal. It's been connected to my Modius via XLR since delivery. I'll have to tinker with that.


----------



## hottyson (Aug 7, 2022)

thugnificent said:


> Whats a good DAC to pair with this amp? Have a pair of He6se-v2 that I plan to use with it.





hottyson said:


> The Singxer SA-1 does not pair well with the Hifiman HE6se V2. The combination of those two tend to gravitate to muffled, stifled soundstage, and reduced dynamics when compared to a better paired amp such as a Rebel Audio Rebel Amp or even a Schiit Jotunheim 2 or Schiit Jotunheim 1. So I would not expect to squeeze very much performance out of any DAC with the two you mentioned.



I have to amend my comment. I incorrectly stated that "Singxer SA-1 does not pair well with the Hifiman HE6se V2." I have them hooked up right now and they do pair well. Yes, not as well as the Rebel Amp nor the Jotunheim. But I am exaggerating and likely making a false and snobbish statement by stating that they don't pair well. I am listening right now to them and the sound is good.

Also, this pairing is good enough to squeeze performance out of the right DAC which I also falsely claimed. Please except my apology as I am sorry for any confusion and misinformation I have caused anyone.

As for a good DAC to pair with them, I find the Schiit Bifrost 2 to sound very good with these headphones. In general, I have found the Schiit Bifrost 2 to sound good with pretty much all of my planar magnetic headphones and a major improvement from the general mainstream Chinese DACS. Good luck in DAC hunting.


----------



## deafenears

hottyson said:


> I have to amend my comment. I incorrectly stated that "Singxer SA-1 does not pair well with the Hifiman HE6se V2." I have them hooked up right now and they do pair well. *Yes, not as well as the Rebel Amp nor the Jotunheim*. But I am exaggerating and likely making a false and snobbish statement by stating that they don't pair well. I am listening right now to them and the sound is good.


Hmm, you're using RCA inputs and 4-pin XLR outputs to the headphones? Umm... no, don't do that. The amp was designed balanced, so either you use fully balanced all the way through or use single-ended all the way through.


----------



## TheMiddleSky

JohanE said:


> How is the Noire?



As a person who doesn't like close back headphone, and own Meze flagship, I prefer Noire to Liric. Crazy value for that one headphone.


----------



## godmax

deafenears said:


> Hmm, you're using RCA inputs and 4-pin XLR outputs to the headphones? Umm... no, don't do that. The amp was designed balanced, so either you use fully balanced all the way through or use single-ended all the way through.


In my opinion this will not make much of a difference especially on the SA-1, since the RCA input signal gets boosted by 6dB by default to match XLR input in regards of volume. And also converting single-ended to balanced by the SA-1 as done by many other amps (e.g. GS-X mini, Violectrics, etc.) is also without degrading the signal, only ground-loop injected noise by the source DAC could potentially degrade sound quality on the headphone out of the SA-1.


----------



## hottyson (Aug 8, 2022)

godmax said:


> In my opinion this will not make much of a difference especially on the SA-1, since the RCA input signal gets boosted by 6dB by default to match XLR input in regards of volume. And also converting single-ended to balanced by the SA-1 as done by many other amps (e.g. GS-X mini, Violectrics, etc.) is also without degrading the signal, only ground-loop injected noise by the source DAC could potentially degrade sound quality on the headphone out of the SA-1.


I have been using both RCA and XLR interconnects moving between them back and forth in all of my amps and DACs. I too do not notice any differences. If anything, my unbalanced interconnects are better because some of my RCA interconnects are high quality made from Canare Star Quad cable and WBT silver solder whereas my XLR are store bought. In the 1990s I used balanced cables in my pro-audio gear for work and that made a difference in commercial atmospheres that had lots of electrical pollution/interference. But, in home audio chains the use of balanced signals if often propagated misinformation based on myth.


----------



## JohanE

TheMiddleSky said:


> As a person who doesn't like close back headphone, and own Meze flagship, I prefer Noire to Liric. Crazy value for that one headphone.


Just emailed a dealer here about getting both the Kennerton Magni and the Noire on loan for evaluation. Will demo both of them and compare.


----------



## dstarr3

hottyson said:


> But, in home audio chains the use of balanced signals if often propagated misinformation based on myth.


I just want to check my understanding. Is it right to say that the primary benefit of balanced signals vs. unbalanced is that a balanced signal will typically have a lower noise floor? And outside of that, most of the other differences are just down to the amp circuitry being different at all, rather than specifically being balanced?


----------



## roderickvd

dstarr3 said:


> I just want to check my understanding. Is it right to say that the primary benefit of balanced signals vs. unbalanced is that a balanced signal will typically have a lower noise floor? And outside of that, most of the other differences are just down to the amp circuitry being different at all, rather than specifically being balanced?


Maybe not to go into the technical details of the merits of balanced or not — certainly a topic of much debate and with many threads — in the case of SA-1 the device itself has been engineered and optimized for balanced in, balanced out. Every other configuration has higher noise (and coming back to your question, that’s not so much typical for balanced per se but it is for this device).


----------



## hottyson

dstarr3 said:


> I just want to check my understanding. Is it right to say that the primary benefit of balanced signals vs. unbalanced is that a balanced signal will typically have a lower noise floor? And outside of that, most of the other differences are just down to the amp circuitry being different at all, rather than specifically being balanced?


Balanced cables contain a third conductor used to both cancel out electrical interferences that interfere with the audio signal and sometimes also incorporated into the shielding. This is part of the reason why I used balanced signal interconnects in commercial settings with long runs always over fifty feet, crossing many circuits that would otherwise contaminate the signal. Yes, sometimes, to answer your question. In an electrically polluted environment, the noise floor may be increased due to electrical interference and the balanced interconnect would silence the introduced interference. In a home setting one is likely to have much less electrical interferences due to short interconnect runs and the silent nature of electronic interference pollution of home environments.


----------



## hottyson

roderickvd said:


> in the case of SA-1 the device itself has been engineered and optimized for balanced in, balanced out. Every other configuration has higher noise (and coming back to your question, that’s not so much typical for balanced per se but it is for this device).


What cables did you use to test this? And, were they short runs typical of a home environment? Did the manufacture make this claim? Yes, the balanced output is engineered to be optimized in terms of power, but where does this claim stem from that the single ended input was not engineered well on the Singxer SA-1?


----------



## roderickvd

hottyson said:


> What cables did you use to test this? And, were they short runs typical of a home environment? Did the manufacture make this claim? Yes, the balanced output is engineered to be optimized in terms of power, but where does this claim stem from that the single ended input was not engineered well on the Singxer SA-1?


Yes, this was claimed by Singxer itself by voice of one of its engineers on ASR. 

On SBAF there are measurements of the single-ended versus balanced operation. 

To be super exact I did not say single ended was not engineered well, I repeated Singxer’s claim that it had been optimized for fully balanced operation.


----------



## deafenears

hottyson said:


> I have been using both RCA and XLR interconnects moving between them back and forth in all of my amps and DACs. I too do not notice any differences. If anything, my unbalanced interconnects are better because some of my RCA interconnects are high quality made from Canare Star Quad cable and WBT silver solder whereas my XLR are store bought. In the 1990s I used balanced cables in my pro-audio gear for work and that made a difference in commercial atmospheres that had lots of electrical pollution/interference. But, in home audio chains the use of balanced signals if often propagated misinformation based on myth.





roderickvd said:


> Yes, this was claimed by Singxer itself by voice of one of its engineers on ASR.
> 
> On SBAF there are measurements of the single-ended versus balanced operation.
> 
> To be super exact I did not say single ended was not engineered well, I repeated Singxer’s claim that it had been optimized for fully balanced operation.


This post by @roderickvd . We're not talking about balanced vs. SE here. We're talking about this device, the Singxer SA-1. It was designed balanced, the circuits were all optimized for it. To convert to SE, there are some trade offs and the engineer from Singxer acknowledges and recommends balanced-in balanced out as the best. Even measurements, though I didn't want to bring that up, shows the same.


----------



## hottyson (Aug 8, 2022)

.
I just hooked up both XLR balanced input and RCA single ended input from my Questyle CMA Twelve to my Singxer SA-1. I compared the sound of the music on a few tracks and prefered the single ended RCA on the Singxer SA-1. The RCA seemed slightly clearer. Probably because I made custom the cable out of good components.
.
I also paused the music and played silence with the volume turned to maximum on the Singxer SA-1. Both balanced and single ended were DEAD SILENT. Just as I had suggested. These claims are nothing more than Head-fi stories on the internet continuing to propagate myth about balanced input over single ended input.
.
Ultimately, on the Singxer SA-1, the RCA single ended inputs were engineered and implemented properly. To claim that I should be using XLR balanced interconnects over my RCA interconnects is a load of bollocks.


----------



## FinHifi (Aug 9, 2022)

I previously wrote about high z an low z and how it affects sound on my adx5000, but did not include an example, now i have one:

In this song, with adx5000 at least, high z has a slightly wider soundstage, most notable in the beginning of this song.
I noticed this when I listened this and had left the setting on low z and thought that something was wrong as it did not feel the same. Switched back and the emotion was back. It might also be about notes "hanging" longer, a term I came across one day and not about the stage. This is a minor but notable difference in my opinion.

ps to test this, first run low-z and listen the beginning and then switch to high z and same. With rapid switching i cant hear a difference.


----------



## roderickvd

hottyson said:


> . I just hooked up both XLR balanced input and RCA single ended input from my Questyle CMA Twelve to my Singxer SA-1. I compared the sound of the music on a few tracks and prefered the single ended RCA on the Singxer SA-1. The RCA seemed slightly clearer. Probably because I made custom the cable out of good components. . I also paused the music and played silence with the volume turned to maximum on the Singxer SA-1. Both balanced and single ended were DEAD SILENT. Just as I had suggested. These claims are nothing more than Head-fi stories on the internet continuing to propagate myth about balanced input over single ended input. . Ultimately, on the Singxer SA-1, the RCA single ended inputs were engineered and implemented properly. To claim that I should be using XLR balanced interconnects over my RCA interconnects is a load of bollocks.


Don’t remember saying you *should* do anything. I’ll just leave this here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ingxer-sa-1-headphone-amp-measurements.12427/

I could look up the post by the Singxer engineer as well. Or not, as you seem to be implying that I’m full of it anyway. Your tone strikes me as hostile when I have only ever tried to be helpful.


----------



## hottyson (Aug 9, 2022)

roderickvd said:


> Don’t remember saying you *should* do anything. I’ll just leave this here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ingxer-sa-1-headphone-amp-measurements.12427/
> 
> I could look up the post by the Singxer engineer as well. Or not, as you seem to be implying that I’m full of it anyway. Your tone strikes me as hostile when I have only ever tried to be helpful.


I think if you read back at the posts, you will see that it was someone else that suggested that I not run my RCA interconnects and instead run balanced cables into my Singxer SA-1. Not you. You are mistaken suggesting that I identified yourself as the individual that made this statement to me.
.
As for hostility. Some may find truth hostile. However it is better to deal with truth and put the misinformation to rest before too many forum members regurgitate lies that they believe because they had read somewhere else. It is all too common that forum members on Head-fi make unsubstantiated claims all too often based of theory, falsehoods, and propagated myth without any real world experience. This is really bad for those new to audio when they read our false posts and start believing it because they read it on Head-fi. I have been a longtime member of Head-fi and I am growing tired of those here on Head-fi that continue to destroy Head-fi reputation with this all too common spread of false information. Otherwise we may end up with a poor reputation similar to ASR.


----------



## deafenears

hottyson said:


> I think if you read back at the posts, you will see that it was someone else that suggested that I not run my RCA interconnects and instead run balanced cables into my Singxer SA-1. Not you. You are mistaken suggesting that I identified yourself as the individual that made this statement to me.
> .
> As for hostility. Some may find truth hostile. However it is better to deal with truth and put the misinformation to rest before too many forum members regurgitate lies that they believe because they had read somewhere else. It is all too common that forum members on Head-fi make unsubstantiated claims all too often based of theory, falsehoods, and propagated myth without any real world experience. This is really bad for those new to audio when they read our false posts and start believing it because they read it on Head-fi. I have been a longtime member of Head-fi and I am growing tired of those here on Head-fi that continue to destroy Head-fi reputation with this all too common spread of false information. Otherwise we may end up with a poor reputation similar to ASR.


That would be me. Like I said, the amp was designed balanced and is what the engineer from Singxer recommends. It is also what is measured and proven better. I'm not spreading misinformation about balanced vs. SE but rather for *this* amp, balanced is best. If you can't hear a difference, that's fine, but still, the truth is, for *this* amp, there is a difference between balanced and SE.


----------



## Thetaburn (Aug 12, 2022)

For a few months I have been listening to the Sa1 with the 4 modded jumper pins and I had to remove them due to listening fatigue.
The jumper mod makes a significant difference in high-end treble and clarity (at least 10-15%).
My headphones are the Arya V3 and more treble or clarity was not needed.  
On high gain - I couldnt go pass 9 o'clock, as the treble and clarity were overwhelming. 

My headphones are significantly louder and slightly more dynamic (this could be because the volume is louder using balanced cable vs stock  SE.....) when used with balance in and balanced out.


----------



## Tazyn (Aug 12, 2022)

Hifiman has its own vision of what the sound should be. Just like other companies. Perhaps the preset setting of your headphones does not go well with the sound of the mod. I have Snorry Si-1mk2 headphones. I do not feel the lack of mod.


----------



## orangecrescent

During testing my headphones, I accidentally have both headphones connected to the sa-1. One to the 4.4 and the other the xlr.  I didn't fry the amp nor my headphones.  They are all working correctly, with no noticeable sound differences from the headphones when both are connected.  The two headphones have similar impedance and sensitivity.  Is this allowed or I am just lucky?  Because if I can plug both in it will be a lot easier when comparing them and reduce the tear and wear of the sockets.


----------



## yaps66

orangecrescent said:


> During testing my headphones, I accidentally have both headphones connected to the sa-1. One to the 4.4 and the other the xlr.  I didn't fry the amp nor my headphones.  They are all working correctly, with no noticeable sound differences from the headphones when both are connected.  The two headphones have similar impedance and sensitivity.  Is this allowed or I am just lucky?  Because if I can plug both in it will be a lot easier when comparing them and reduce the tear and wear of the sockets.


For burn-in pủposes I plug in to all three outputs without any discernible difference (to my 56 year old ears).


----------



## dstarr3

orangecrescent said:


> During testing my headphones, I accidentally have both headphones connected to the sa-1. One to the 4.4 and the other the xlr.  I didn't fry the amp nor my headphones.  They are all working correctly, with no noticeable sound differences from the headphones when both are connected.  The two headphones have similar impedance and sensitivity.  Is this allowed or I am just lucky?  Because if I can plug both in it will be a lot easier when comparing them and reduce the tear and wear of the sockets.


There's a chance that plugging or unplugging a 4.4mm or 3.5mm headphone while playing music into an XLR headphone could cause a brief short circuit that might have potential to damage something. So I would do all your plugging and unplugging while the amp is off or at least at minimum volume and/or not receiving a signal. But yeah, once everything is connected, playing music into multiple headphones is fine.


----------



## yaps66

dstarr3 said:


> There's a chance that plugging or unplugging a 4.4mm or 3.5mm headphone while playing music into an XLR headphone could cause a brief short circuit that might have potential to damage something. So I would do all your plugging and unplugging while the amp is off or at least at minimum volume and/or not receiving a signal. But yeah, once everything is connected, playing music into multiple headphones is fine.


Hey! That’s good advice! Thanks! I was not aware of the risk.


----------



## orangecrescent

dstarr3 said:


> There's a chance that plugging or unplugging a 4.4mm or 3.5mm headphone while playing music into an XLR headphone could cause a brief short circuit that might have potential to damage something. So I would do all your plugging and unplugging while the amp is off or at least at minimum volume and/or not receiving a signal. But yeah, once everything is connected, playing music into multiple headphones is fine.


Yep. I always turn the volume to minimum when plugging/unplugging headphones.


----------



## Thetaburn

Had to put the jumper mod back in.
Without it, amp was a bit veiled and dull.
EQ the treble down a bit to counteract the increased treble from the jumper mod.
All good now.


----------



## MykeHBM

Any idea on a balanced dac to pair with the SA-1? Not looking for something crazy priced just something reasonable. Being in the UK trying to get Schitt or Geshelli is tough and add a lot to the cost.


----------



## dstarr3

I don't have personal experience with them, but you could probably do something like the SMSL SU-8 or Topping D10 Balanced. All Sigma-Delta DACs sound the same, so really as long as it has a USB input and a 4V balanced output, you're golden.


----------



## JaquesGelee

MykeHBM said:


> Any idea on a balanced dac to pair with the SA-1? Not looking for something crazy priced just something reasonable. Being in the UK trying to get Schitt or Geshelli is tough and add a lot to the cost.


Soncoz LA-QXD1. Done.


----------



## MacMan31

Thetaburn said:


> Had to put the jumper mod back in.
> Without it, amp was a bit veiled and dull.
> EQ the treble down a bit to counteract the increased treble from the jumper mod.
> All good now.



Is the jumper mod easy to do? I just got this amp today. So far it sounds good but I think I agree with it sounding a bit dull or veiled.


----------



## Thetaburn (Sep 7, 2022)

The Singer sa1 I got from Drop.com has developed a channel imbalance. Hope drop.com will

I have to use peace eq at -0.24 to center the sound.


MacMan31 said:


> Is the jumper mod easy to do? I just got this amp today. So far it sounds good but I think I agree with it sounding a bit dull or veiled.


Yes.
Unplug the device.
Unscrew the hex screws.
Buy and install the 4 jumpers.
Screw the hex screws back on and finished.
There's a YouTube video if you need more details.



The downside of this mod is that treble is increased and you might need to eq that down.


----------



## Friskyseal

It's even a little misleading to call it a "mod," it's more like just plugging in 4 little lego pieces and getting a way better amp.


----------



## MacMan31

Thetaburn said:


> The Singer sa1 I got from Drop.com has developed a channel imbalance. Hope drop.com will
> 
> I have to use peace eq at -0.24 to center the sound.
> 
> ...




Where can I find these jumpers? The reviewer in the video did not link any in the description box. I'm comparing the SA-1 with the Rebel Amp right now. So far to me they sound very similar. But I think the Rebel Amp is a tad bit brighter or livelier than the SA-1. Perhaps it's more forward sounding.


----------



## dstarr3

MacMan31 said:


> Where can I find these jumpers? The reviewer in the video did not link any in the description box. I'm comparing the SA-1 with the Rebel Amp right now. So far to me they sound very similar. But I think the Rebel Amp is a tad bit brighter or livelier than the SA-1. Perhaps it's more forward sounding.


uxcell 30pcs 2.54mm Pin Header Jumper Cap Lengthened Short Circuit Connection Cap Mini Micro Jumper Bridge Plug Yellow https://a.co/d/ehPpCtT


----------



## Plieb (Sep 18, 2022)

quawn0418 said:


> Yea I’d definitely go balanced with the sa-1, i was never crazy about its single ended performance.


Using my singxer via rca input with 2.1v dac and balanced out on high gain. Great sound with my 660S.Totally unlistenable if i switch output to single ended. Very low with little power via my very efficient Elex. Getting balanced cable which will allow me to see how the Elex fairs with the singxer.


----------



## Plieb (Sep 18, 2022)

deafenears said:


> Hmm, you're using RCA inputs and 4-pin XLR outputs to the headphones? Umm... no, don't do that. The amp was designed balanced, so either you use fully balanced all the way through or use single-ended all the way through.


Im using 2.1v single ended and balanced out and getting superior sound. There should not be any difference in using single ended input or balanced since amp converts everything to balanced output. Every review that i heard has gone out of their way to state this fact. Of course dac quality will make the difference.
Using single ended output is another story.


----------



## Plieb

Plieb said:


> Using my singxer via rca input with 2.1v dac and balanced out on high gain. Great sound with my 660S.Totally unlistenable if i switch output to single ended. Very low with little power via my very efficient Elex. Getting balanced cable which will allow me to see how the Elex fairs with the singxer.


----------



## Plieb

hottyson said:


> I can't comment on anything Topping because I stay far away from anything made by them as they make horrible products with defects.
> 
> Each of my headphones pairs with different amps with different results and unique amp order of preference. I do own both the Hifiman Ananda and the SMSL SP200. I do not like to pair those two together as the perceived soundstage becomes too narrow.
> 
> ...


----------



## Plieb (Sep 22, 2022)

FYI Focal Elex loses all of its main assets paired with the sa-1. Punch, dynamics,  the close up  in your face perspective. The Elex on the Rebel heightens all those assets lost with the sa-1.
Love the singxer with the senn 660s. Elex is very smooth with the sa-1 however its not an Elex anymore. 
Compatibility is everything.


----------



## sahmen

Is it okay to leave the sa-1 on all the time, even if it is not playing? Also, how many hours of "burn-in" (if any) does the sa-1 require to hit its ideal stride in performance?


----------



## Alex May

sahmen said:


> Is it okay to leave the sa-1 on all the time, even if it is not playing?


Only if you don't care about your electricity bills.


sahmen said:


> Also, how many hours of "burn-in" (if any) does the sa-1 require to hit its ideal stride in performance?


Until it's warm.


----------



## Plieb

sahmen said:


> Is it okay to leave the sa-1 on all the time, even if it is not playing? Also, how many hours of "burn-in" (if any) does the sa-1 require to hit its ideal stride in performance?


Much less than many others. I think a few days and its there. I keep master switch on in back of unit  for standby but turn off front switch which keeps amplification off. For a few days i kept unit in highz mode to offset slight brightness. Now its always in lowz.


----------



## amiga505

so, in case someone is curious, I am doing an A/B of the SA-1 as a pre-amp against the SW51+ as a pre-amp. setup is this: (1) J2 SE to SW51+, then from the low-z headphone out of the SW51+ with a Canare cable to first line in of Musical Paradise MP-301 tube amp; (2) J2 via balanced XLR cable into SA-1, and then from the SE pre-outs to another line in of PM-301, I can flip the switch handily to catch the difference. speakers are Triangle Titus Ez. well, performance is passable, but I am not impressed with SA-1 as a preamp, at least via SE outs. the thing it has over SW51+ is bass definition, but other than that the problem seems identical to that the SE headphone output of SA-1 - not enough juice. not only do I have to crank the volume all the way to 3 o'clock to match the SW51+ 11 o'clock, but the sound still lacks dynamic punch, the soundstage is noticeably narrower... perhaps things will improve with XLR pre-outs of SA-1, but I don't have a passing power amp on hand to test this.


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## Plieb

amiga505 said:


> so, in case someone is curious, I am doing an A/B of the SA-1 as a pre-amp against the SW51+ as a pre-amp. setup is this: (1) J2 SE to SW51+, then from the low-z headphone out of the SW51+ with a Canare cable to first line in of Musical Paradise MP-301 tube amp; (2) J2 via balanced XLR cable into SA-1, and then from the SE pre-outs to another line in of PM-301, I can flip the switch handily to catch the difference. speakers are Triangle Titus Ez. well, performance is passable, but I am not impressed with SA-1 as a preamp, at least via SE outs. the thing it has over SW51+ is bass definition, but other than that the problem seems identical to that the SE headphone output of SA-1 - not enough juice. not only do I have to crank the volume all the way to 3 o'clock to match the SW51+ 11 o'clock, but the sound still lacks dynamic punch, the soundstage is noticeably narrower... perhaps things will improve with XLR pre-outs of SA-1, but I don't have a passing power amp on hand to test this.


Yeah SE out sucks


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## P1ayer (Oct 1, 2022)

Greetings to all. I have Singxer-Sa1 in my use for about 6-8 months. With all this hype, I did not appreciate the prospects of transferring all headphones to Bal. connection


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## P1ayer

Honestly. This amplifier causes mixed feelings. Even after DC mode, it doesn't sound fantastic, as many people write about it. There is a lack of dynamics (energy) and warmth, an amorphous sound, detached, as if the vocals sound far away (muffled) and this is called a "wide stage". There is no emotion. I'm not impressed with this pitch, I'm upset.


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## amiga505

P1ayer said:


> Honestly. This amplifier causes mixed feelings. Even after DC mode, it doesn't sound fantastic, as many people write about it. There is a lack of dynamics (energy) and warmth, an amorphous sound, detached, as if the vocals sound far away (muffled) and this is called a "wide stage". There is no emotion. I'm not impressed with this pitch, I'm upset.


to be honest, I can't say I agree with your impressions, with Verum 1 balanced I get a pretty good slam, warmth to my liking and all. having said that, I am also a bit disappointed, but I guess this is due to me having high expectations - I though that this would be a much bigger step up from Cavalli LCX.


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## Plieb

amiga505 said:


> to be honest, I can't say I agree with your impressions, with Verum 1 balanced I get a pretty good slam, warmth to my liking and all. having said that, I am also a bit disappointed, but I guess this is due to me having high expectations - I though that this would be a much bigger step up from Cavalli LCX.


Was a huge step up from Cavalli CTH and all thx amps for me. (789 & 887)


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## Thetaburn

P1ayer said:


> Honestly. This amplifier causes mixed feelings. Even after DC mode, it doesn't sound fantastic, as many people write about it. There is a lack of dynamics (energy) and warmth, an amorphous sound, detached, as if the vocals sound far away (muffled) and this is called a "wide stage". There is no emotion. I'm not impressed with this pitch, I'm upset.


What Dac are you pairing the Singxer with?


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## P1ayer (Oct 2, 2022)

Thetaburn said:


> What Dac are you pairing the Singxer with?


I use this amplifier with pc, g6 and AE9, the sound is still worse through China clone Lehman that was before, and no need to spend money on the balance cable)


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## P1ayer (Oct 1, 2022)

delite


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## P1ayer (Oct 2, 2022)

.


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## sahmen (Oct 2, 2022)

I have got the singxer SA-1 (no mods) paired with a Schiit Bifrost 2/64 in a Home Study rig, which sources music from Roon (Tidal/Qobuz/local files) either through my Macmini (USB) or Metrum Acoustics Ambre.   However I slice it, this chain rocks, and I have got mucho dynamics, details, spaciousness, and extension at both ends coming out of my ears. Even more interestingly, I can listen to this chain for hours non-stop without any fatigue.

This rig sounds very satisfying--so satisfying--that it always succeeds in playing a funny trick on me by concealing its own limitations to me quite perfectly. Whenever I start off any day listening to it, it sounds quite perfect to me : I can't find any shortcomings to complain about, and wouldn't were I to listen to it all day! I even have a Schiit Lokius hooked up to this stack which is always in bypass mode, because I never feel the need to use it.

However, I do know it has limitations, but I only become aware of those limitations when I switch rigs and begin listening to the same music on another rig which is about 6 times more expensive than the Singxer sa-1/Bifrost 2/64 stack... Personally, I say that's a pretty impressive and neat trick the rig has up its sleeve and it gets me every single time.  I have never heard anything on this rig that has been less than impressive my to ears... I do recognize, however, that mileages may vary, for several good reasons.

By the way the HPs I have been using with this particular rig are the Arya V3 and the OG Audeze LCD-X.


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## Plieb (Oct 1, 2022)

sahmen said:


> I have got the singxer SA-1 (no mods) paired with a Schiit Bifrost 2/64 in a Home Study rig, which sources music from Roon (Tidal/Qobuz/local files) either through my Macmini (USB) or Metrum Acoustics Ambre.   However I slice it, this chain rocks, and I have got mucho dynamics, details, spaciousness, and extension at both ends coming out of my ears. Even more interestingly, I can listen to this chain for hours non-stop without any fatigue.
> 
> This rig sounds very satisfying--so satisfying--that it always succeeds in playing a funny trick on me by concealing its own limitations to me quite perfectly. Whenever I start off any day listening to it, it sounds quite perfect to me : I can't find any shortcomings to complain about, and wouldn't were I to listen to it all day! I even have a Schiit Lokius hooked up to this stack which is always in bypass mode, because I never feel the need to use it.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with you on balanced out mode. Wonderful amp that is never harsh. Using with 660s and it is a perfect combo. Smooth as hell with tons of detail and excellent dynamics. I have to also reiterate how well constructed this amp is.


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## P1ayer

sahmen said:


> I have got the singxer SA-1 (no mods) paired with a Schiit Bifrost 2/64 in a Home Study rig, which sources music from Roon (Tidal/Qobuz/local files) either through my Macmini (USB) or Metrum Acoustics Ambre.   However I slice it, this chain rocks, and I have got mucho dynamics, details, spaciousness, and extension at both ends coming out of my ears. Even more interestingly, I can listen to this chain for hours non-stop without any fatigue.
> 
> This rig sounds very satisfying--so satisfying--that it always succeeds in playing a funny trick on me by concealing its own limitations to me quite perfectly. Whenever I start off any day listening to it, it sounds quite perfect to me : I can't find any shortcomings to complain about, and wouldn't were I to listen to it all day! I even have a Schiit Lokius hooked up to this stack which is always in bypass mode, because I never feel the need to use it.
> 
> ...


I perfectly understand what you are talking about. But what do you write down in the pros, as not tedious listening, I regard as "background". Try to concentrate on pleasure, and you won't get it. To me, it sounds like left-right, but never as the Center, there is no focus, the image is blurred.


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## Alex May

@P1ayer are you sure you didn't receive a faulty unit? On my side there is nothing like those negatives you've mentioned. I've got a pretty dynamic unit with lots of detail and clarity, good imaging and overall quite more musical than any THX amp. I personally compared it to the Burson Soloist and I prefer a slightly warmer laid back presentation in SA-1 where the soundstage is wider too. I listen to Arya V2 and LCD-X. Anything more dynamic than the LCD-X would give me pain rather than pleasure. Therefore, I never even did a DC mod because the Singxer SA-1 in its factory state is on the edge of what I consider a pleasure. If you want something more accurate and quality though, take a look at the Burson Soloist. Yes, more expensive but that's the nature of the beast. Something more dynamic would probably be Jot2, amps from Audio-GD, RebelAmp... although you won't get a RebelAmp any time soon 'cause Ukraine, you know... But if we look away from Class-A amps and consider linear AB solid state amps, there are lots of good amps to choose from.


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## sahmen (Oct 2, 2022)

P1ayer said:


> I perfectly understand what you are talking about. But what do you write down in the pros, as not tedious listening, I regard as "background". Try to concentrate on pleasure, and you won't get it. To me, it sounds like left-right, but never as the Center, there is no focus, the image is blurred.


My experience is quite different. I am getting the pleasure alright, in easy, spontaneous flow, and feeling the entire wide, generous, and rich sound-field without having to do any concentration, unless I choose to, but I feel no need for that. . That ease is a big part of the joy and thrill. I hear no channel imbalance (if that is what you mean by "left-right, but never at the center") and absolutely no blurred images.

In short, I am not recognizing my Singxer SA-1 in your description at all. It sounds to me as if something in your chain is not working right. I wish I could help you with that.  I would have all the components, cables, and connections checked if I were in your position, honestly.


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## P1ayer

Alex May said:


> @P1ayer are you sure you didn't receive a faulty unit? On my side there is nothing like those negatives you've mentioned. I've got a pretty dynamic unit with lots of detail and clarity, good imaging and overall quite more musical than any THX amp. I personally compared it to the Burson Soloist and I prefer a slightly warmer laid back presentation in SA-1 where the soundstage is wider too. I listen to Arya V2 and LCD-X. Anything more dynamic than the LCD-X would give me pain rather than pleasure. Therefore, I never even did a DC mod because the Singxer SA-1 in its factory state is on the edge of what I consider a pleasure. If you want something more accurate and quality though, take a look at the Burson Soloist. Yes, more expensive but that's the nature of the beast. Something more dynamic would probably be Jot2, amps from Audio-GD, RebelAmp... although you won't get a RebelAmp any time soon 'cause Ukraine, you know... But if we look away from Class-A amps and consider linear AB solid state amps, there are lots of good amps to choose from.


You don't have to worry about DC mode, it adds 5% to the overall quality, and affects High frequencies. Without adding them, but slightly improving their quality and liveliness. Try it, it's not day and night.


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## NascentAP (Oct 3, 2022)

Just want to also chime in that I still have my SA-1 as my daily driver paired with the ares ii driving mainly HE6SEV2 and Arya and they still sound fantastic to me.

Every time this thread pops up, it’s always due to one of these explanations.  One is that SA-1 was designed for balanced connection throughout for optimal performance. Secondly, a dac that can output >4v is ideal for best performance. Gain seeming insufficient is mainly due to using a lower voltage dac or misunderstanding of a logarithmic volume pot. Lastly, imho SA-1 appears to have synergy with planars esp hifimans and may not play nicely with high ohm cans ie hd650/xx, hence properly matching gear in your signal chain is very important (can personally vouch).


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## Thetaburn (Oct 3, 2022)

P1ayer said:


> I perfectly understand what you are talking about. But what do you write down in the pros, as not tedious listening, I regard as "background". Try to concentrate on pleasure, and you won't get it. To me, it sounds like left-right, but never as the Center, there is no focus, the image is blurred.


I am listening to the Singxer Sa1 as I type, the center image is quite focused.
You may have a defective unit OR there is another part of your audio chain that is causing an issue, as every little part makes a difference. (Could be cables, interconnects, Dac, electrical power, PC issues and etc).
I remember early on, I plugged my DAC and Amp into the same power bar as my computer and the sound imaging was a bit blurry. Plugging my DAC and amp into a separate electrical outlet from the PC fixed it.

You can to connect your smart phone's 3.5mm jack to phono cable directly to the Singxer sa1 and see how that sounds.

If you share in detail your whole audio chain, one of the more experienced members might be able to help you troubleshoot.

For example. My chain is PC - J River (flac) / Tidal - Ares2 (XLR) - Singxer Sa1 (XLR) / No jumper mod - pure silver cable 4.4 balance - Hekv2.
Mid vocals are solid, background instruments are clear, separated and layered with some depth.
The sound signature is very warm - the way I prefer as I can listen much longer without fatigue.
My critique would be that the bass is relatively soft.


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## dstarr3

NascentAP said:


> Lastly, SA-1 appears to have synergy with planars esp hifimans and do not play nicely with high ohm cans ie hd650/xx, showing that properly matching gear in your signal chain is very important (can personally vouch)


That's counter to my experience. I've tried a few planars on my SA-1 now, the HE6se V2, Monolith M1570, and T50rp Argon. The Argon's the only one I've liked on it. Granted, I think the Argon + SA-1 is a match made in heaven, but yeah, the other two pairings, I wasn't fond of at all. And also, my HD6XX is another headphone that I think is a match made in heaven with my SA-1.

I think it might have something to do with your DAC, the Ares is pretty warm and soft. Warm/soft DAC like the Ares into a warm/soft amp like the SA-1 into warm/soft headphones like the Senn HD600-series, even for fans of a warm/soft kind of sound like myself, that might be a bit much.


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## NascentAP

dstarr3 said:


> That's counter to my experience. I've tried a few planars on my SA-1 now, the HE6se V2, Monolith M1570, and T50rp Argon. The Argon's the only one I've liked on it. Granted, I think the Argon + SA-1 is a match made in heaven, but yeah, the other two pairings, I wasn't fond of at all. And also, my HD6XX is another headphone that I think is a match made in heaven with my SA-1.
> 
> I think it might have something to do with your DAC, the Ares is pretty warm and soft. Warm/soft DAC like the Ares into a warm/soft amp like the SA-1 into warm/soft headphones like the Senn HD600-series, even for fans of a warm/soft kind of sound like myself, that might be a bit much.


Perhaps. Ares II apparently has an unusually high output impedance, which is a bad match for amps with low input impedance ie A90. SA-1 input impedance is not as low as A90 but also not as high as some other amps. Or it may also be due differences in our subjective sonic presences. 

We had a discussion here (I think) not too long ago about hd6xx and sa-1. Whatever the reason may be, you raise a salient point and I edited my statement above to not read so definitive.


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## Mansinthe86 (Oct 3, 2022)

NascentAP said:


> Perhaps. Ares II apparently has an unusually high output impedance, which is a bad match for amps with low input impedance ie A90. SA-1 input impedance is not as low as A90 but also not as high as some other amps. Or it may also be due differences in our subjective sonic presences.
> 
> We had a discussion here (I think) not too long ago about hd6xx and sa-1. Whatever the reason may be, you raise a salient point and I edited my statement above to not read so definitive.


True, but the problem in that Setup is the ares and sure enough not the Singxer.
The "warmth" introduced by the ares is just distortion really. A bit like the bloated bass you get from tube amps.

I'm using my singxer with a Cambridge CXN v2 .. used it before with a Smsl D300.

Both setups work perfectly fine together with both my low impedance planar headphones. (Aeon 2 Noire, Meze liric)


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## amiga505

my biggest beef with this amp of course is the damned blue LED... totally breaks my symphony of green, yellow and red.


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## amiga505

Alex May said:


> ...although you won't get a RebelAmp any time soon 'cause Ukraine, you know...


I just checked the Rebel Audio website, they seem to be taking orders.


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## Alex May

amiga505 said:


> I just checked the Rebel Audio website, they seem to be taking orders.


Something tells me you're not Russian


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## Plieb

NascentAP said:


> Just want to also chime in that I still have my SA-1 as my daily driver paired with the ares ii driving mainly HE6SEV2 and Arya and they still sound fantastic to me.
> 
> Every time this thread pops up, it’s always due to one of these explanations.  One is that SA-1 was designed for balanced connection throughout for optimal performance. Secondly, a dac that can output >4v is ideal for best performance. Gain seeming insufficient is mainly due to using a lower voltage dac or misunderstanding of a logarithmic volume pot. Lastly, imho SA-1 appears to have synergy with planars esp hifimans and may not play nicely with high ohm cans ie hd650/xx, hence properly matching gear in your signal chain is very important (can personally vouch).


Sa-1 and senn 660S is another great pairing. Very neutral sound in a good way.


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## NascentAP (Oct 3, 2022)

Mansinthe86 said:


> True, but the problem in that Setup is the ares and sure enough not the Singxer.


For sure. Not trying to assign blame or
to find the culprit but rather wanted to illustrate that each device in the chain has their own characteristics (both in subjective sound and in objective technicalities) and it’s best to take these into consideration when buying gear. These facts and concepts might be obvious to experts but wasn’t to me when getting into the hobby depending on who you watch/read.


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## NascentAP

Plieb said:


> Sa-1 and senn 660S is another great pairing. Very neutral sound in a good way.


That’s cool. I have the hd6xx and can’t say the same. I hear the sennheiser veil that ppl talk about. However, with even a cheap OTL amp like the littledot2, it lifts the veil completely and the 6xx sounds like a different headphone (sound stage and imaging is still lacking). It was explained to me that this may be due to planars being dependent on high current whereas a 300 ohm cans like the 6xx require more voltage. But hey, if you like the sound coming out of your chain, who cares about all this technical stuff.


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## Plieb

NascentAP said:


> That’s cool. I have the hd6xx and can’t say the same. I hear the sennheiser veil that ppl talk about. However, with even a cheap OTL amp like the littledot2, it lifts the veil completely and the 6xx sounds like a different headphone (sound stage and imaging is still lacking). It was explained to me that this may be due to planars being dependent on high current whereas a 300 ohm cans like the 6xx require more voltage. But hey, if you like the sound coming out of your chain, who cares about all this technical stuff.


Yeah. The 660S  at 150 ohms is more efficient than 650 and more crisp sounding with noticeably more detail.  No Veil. The sa-1  being softer in the high end than my other amps seems to be the perfect fit.


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## amiga505

Alex May said:


> Something tells me you're not Russian


I think I get your drift)))


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## amiga505

ok, this is probably an upgrade neurosis setting in (what with being a bit less impressed with SA-1 than expected), but what are some alternatives which are a step up, but not at Master 19 level just yet? something similar to Flux Labs FA-12 say? I was going to jump directly to FA-12 from the LCX, but since the beginning of the war Flux Labs closed shop, so I ended grabbing a good deal on SA-1 here on the forum.


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## Alex May

amiga505 said:


> ok, this is probably an upgrade neurosis setting in (what with being a bit less impressed with SA-1 than expected), but what are some alternatives which are a step up, but not at Master 19 level just yet? something similar to Flux Labs FA-12 say? I was going to jump directly to FA-12 from the LCX, but since the beginning of the war Flux Labs closed shop, so I ended grabbing a good deal on SA-1 here on the forum.


Flux Labs FA-12 is $749
Master 19 is $880

Not a huge difference in terms of price I'd say. I would suggest waiting until you can afford Master 19. Everything by Audio-GD is considered premium quality. Otherwise there might not be any real upgrade until at least the level of Burson Soloist. The sidegrade, however, is Jotunheim 2.


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## amiga505

Alex May said:


> Flux Labs FA-12 is $749
> Master 19 is $880
> 
> Not a huge difference in terms of price I'd say. I would suggest waiting until you can afford Master 19. Everything by Audio-GD is considered premium quality. Otherwise there might not be any real upgrade until at least the level of Burson Soloist. The sidegrade, however, is Jotunheim 2.


Master 19 is over 1K EUR on both Audiophonics and MagnaHiFi now here in Europe, I guess the prices are really climbing up due to economic and logistical impact of covid and the war combined. I am almost positive it was something like EUR 970 on MagnaHiFI a month ago, which was still a lot.


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## etroze86

I would recommend saving up for the Burson. Mine sits next to my SA1 and really I'm probably going to sell the SA1 since the Burson just turns everything that the SA1 does up to 11.


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## amiga505

looks like the guy on HiFiGuides came up with a way to overcome the SA1 SE out limitations, his solution - bi-amping!


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## TheMiddleSky

Damn, I wonder why anyone never thought about that handy solution


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## FinHifi (Oct 10, 2022)

Thetaburn said:


> Had to put the jumper mod back in.
> Without it, amp was a bit veiled and dull.
> EQ the treble down a bit to counteract the increased treble from the jumper mod.
> All good now.


I agree and disagree with you. Yes with mod this amp seems to get slightly brighter, but it also makes it slightly more fatigueing to my ears. ADX5000 is too bright with the mod, also some songs on my Elite also become too bright for my taste. However Michael Jackson sounds better with the mod on my elites, like you say, a veil is lifted. I would describe the un-modded SA-1 to be slightly more like tube-amp and with the mod more like a solid state amp. I did compare just now back and forth and desided not to use mod because I prefer slightly warmer and smooth sound overall, even tough some songs do in fact sound better with the mod.
I am going to switch my amp in the future, when i have enough cash saved, and i think ill get Violectric v550 pro when the time comes. Now is it going to sound "better" ? maybe  hope so.


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## Lolito2

NascentAP said:


> Just want to also chime in that I still have my SA-1 as my daily driver paired with the ares ii driving mainly HE6SEV2 and Arya and they still sound fantastic to me.
> 
> Every time this thread pops up, it’s always due to one of these explanations.  One is that SA-1 was designed for balanced connection throughout for optimal performance. Secondly, a dac that can output >4v is ideal for best performance. Gain seeming insufficient is mainly due to using a lower voltage dac or misunderstanding of a logarithmic volume pot. Lastly, imho SA-1 appears to have synergy with planars esp hifimans and may not play nicely with high ohm cans ie hd650/xx, hence properly matching gear in your signal chain is very important (can personally vouch).



Same here, Ares2+SA1 for about... 18 months now... Very happy overall, so happy that don't want to upgrade. I would like of course a remote control, more rca inputs... I use it balanced with the dac, with the speakers, and with headphones. no mod done, did it once but had to revert it. Very solid construction. I left it in high gain, so it always works on class A, using just half the volume pot. Since the pot is not linear but exponential, in low gain you always enter class B. Not anymore in high gain though, nice.

Complaints? well, it gets too hot. I rather have white or green led rather than blue. The pot knob has a recession, so you can not install larger knobs. No complaints really, very solid device. neutral leaning to the class A lush and warmish, still detailed if put a detailed dac with it.


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## deafenears

Lolito2 said:


> I left it in high gain, so it always works on class A, using just half the volume pot.





Lolito2 said:


> Complaints? well, it gets too hot.


Class A means lower efficiency so that energy turns to heat.



Lolito2 said:


> I rather have white or green led rather than blue. The pot knob has a recession, so you can not install larger knobs.


Agreed on the light. Don't know what's the go with manufacturers using blue LEDs for devices where you're likely to have them on with the lights turned off.

As for the volume knob, you can still install a larger one. I have one on mine (Schiit knob works/fits, also one found on Aliexpress).


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## Lolito2

The knob you can get a deeper one, or taller one, depends on how you consider it. But if you get a larger one in diameter, it will not go into the recess area, so it will not be able to get enough purchase from the axle of the potentiometer, so it can not be attached, when the diameter of the knob is larger. I did it myself already. Gonna have to look for one with same diameter as stock, or smaller, just taller or deeper.

I know the class A heat, but properly insulated with decently sized heatsinks, the temperature to the touch is different. My unit also is not very ventilated on the top part, so i can understand it. Still, it really gets hot, quite hot, rather than just warm.


----------



## Alex May

Lolito2 said:


> The knob you can get a deeper one, or taller one, depends on how you consider it. But if you get a larger one in diameter, it will not go into the recess area, so it will not be able to get enough purchase from the axle of the potentiometer, so it can not be attached, when the diameter of the knob is larger. I did it myself already. Gonna have to look for one with same diameter as stock, or smaller, just taller or deeper.


I already told you, mate, this 34mm one works! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32813579033.html
Although 34mm outer diameter, it has 32mm at the back, so it snugly fits into the recess if you don't push it all the way. I have it, I've installed it and it works perfectly fine:


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## aroldan

Lolito2 said:


> Same here, Ares2+SA1 for about... 18 months now... Very happy overall, so happy that don't want to upgrade. I would like of course a remote control, more rca inputs... I use it balanced with the dac, with the speakers, and with headphones. no mod done, did it once but had to revert it. Very solid construction. I left it in high gain, so it always works on class A, using just half the volume pot. Since the pot is not linear but exponential, in low gain you always enter class B. Not anymore in high gain though, nice.
> 
> Complaints? well, it gets too hot. I rather have white or green led rather than blue. The pot knob has a recession, so you can not install larger knobs. No complaints really, very solid device. neutral leaning to the class A lush and warmish, still detailed if put a detailed dac with it.


Here also an Ares2+SA1+Arya V2 owner for about 1 year and I don't feel the need of upgrading. It's been a year of enjoying music with this combo.


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## Lolito2

Alex May said:


> I already told you, mate, this 34mm one works! https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32813579033.html
> Although 34mm outer diameter, it has 32mm at the back, so it snugly fits into the recess if you don't push it all the way. I have it, I've installed it and it works perfectly fine:


That one, not only is not 34mm, it is 32mm, but also is a downgrade from the original, since it is extremely ugly, pretty much as tall as the stock one. The molted surface is very low quality, the rolled mechanizing on the front gives this 70's aesthetics, and last but not least, the white triangle has no haptic feedback, unlike the original with the spheric mechanization.

Internet forums...


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## Alex May (Oct 16, 2022)

Lolito2 said:


> That one, not only is not 34mm, it is 32mm


I don't have calipers but my ruler shows more than 32mm. It's definitely bigger that the original 32mm knob because only the back ring gets inside the recess, however very snugly and deep enough. The knurled ridges do not fit in there but they are not supposed to. So it perfectly fits if you don't push it too far until the serrations start touching the body. Back it off a little bit and tighten the screw and it works smoothly.


Lolito2 said:


> it is extremely ugly


Really? I can't really see what's ugly on my photo... except the omnipresent dust 


Lolito2 said:


> The molted surface is very low quality


Mine is of good quality, in line with all the other gear I have including MOTU's knobs with the same knurling surface. Those fine serrations provide a secure grip. And I like it a lot more than the original knob where too much resistance is not for the slick surface. And I'd rather have a good visual reference presented by the white triangle rather than a spherical indentation that you can't see in low light unless you paint it white like Zeos did.


Lolito2 said:


> the rolled mechanizing on the front gives this 70's aesthetics


That's what I love about this thing! Love how the light plays on it's front.


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## amiga505

NascentAP said:


> Just want to also chime in that I still have my SA-1 as my daily driver paired with the ares ii driving mainly HE6SEV2 and Arya and they still sound fantastic to me.
> 
> Every time this thread pops up, it’s always due to one of these explanations.  One is that SA-1 was designed for balanced connection throughout for optimal performance. Secondly, a dac that can output >4v is ideal for best performance. Gain seeming insufficient is mainly due to using a lower voltage dac or misunderstanding of a logarithmic volume pot. Lastly, imho SA-1 appears to have synergy with planars esp hifimans and may not play nicely with high ohm cans ie hd650/xx, hence properly matching gear in your signal chain is very important (can personally vouch).


this is actually a very good hint, thanks. my Singxer kicked ass paired with a Parasound D/AC-1600 which delivers something like 6V over XLRs, kicked ass that is, until the Parasound died on my 3 days after I got it, I am learning the hard way the perils of the vintage gear path.


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## Patu (Oct 26, 2022)

This has probably been discussed in the thread already but how do you like SA-1 as preamp on speaker setup? Sorry for being lazy and not reading through the 144 pages. I'm considering testing this in front of my ATC actives. It could also replace my ADI-2 as headphone amp since my headphone listening has moved from the office (now children's room) to living room. Thanks for any input.


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## rjacko01

I'm using it as a preamp for my AE1 Active's PC desktop set up when not on my he6se and it works beautifully, nice and clean, fed from SMSL SU-9. Would highly recommend


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## dstarr3

Patu said:


> This has probably been discussed in the thread already but how do you like SA-1 as preamp on speaker setup? Sorry for being lazy and not reading through the 144 pages. I'm considering testing this in front of my ATC actives. It could also replace my ADI-2 as headphone amp since my headphone listening has moved from the office (now children' room) to living room. Thanks for any input.


I don't have the most in-depth input, but I use my SA-1 as a preamp with my Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 computer speakers and I like it. I used to just run them out of my PC soundcard, tried the SA-1 when I got it because why not. The bass response improved noticeably.

I wouldn't buy an SA-1 solely for the preamp outputs, but if you already are getting one for use with headphones and could also get some use out of it as a speaker preamp, yeah, it's worth doing, I think.


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## Patu

Yeah it would mostly be used as preamp between my Linn streamer and ATC actives. I would still control volume level from Linn but with SA-1 I wouldn’t need to digitally attenuate so much. I tested Benchmark HPA4 there and while it added nice amount of grunt and punchiness, it was just too clinical sounding, which will cause listening fatigue in the long run. SA-1 would be a low cost test and it might just surprise as preamp being Class-A true balanced design.


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## rjacko01

If you have something like the ATC SCM50, might want to look for something more in line. That being said did try it with my B&W 802's in the cinema room just out of interest and it didn't disappoint


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## Patu

rjacko01 said:


> If you have something like the ATC SCM50, might want to look for something more in line. That being said did try it with my B&W 802's in the cinema room just out of interest and it didn't disappoint


Yeah obviously some well-known brand multi-thousand dollar preamp would look great on the equipment stand but it isn’t always about the price. It’ll be an interesting test, mostly a test of no preamp vs preamp.


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## rjacko01

can certainly recommend it as a headphone amp, but not too much experience in that area, just have the chord mojo for mobile travelling with the Shure 1540's but knew I needed something a bit stronger to drive the HifiMan. I know there has been discussion about when it transitions from pure class A as it's not class A all the way although tbh I can't detect the change, I'm sure others probably can, but as you say as a low cost test sounds like a great idea


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## RayMets1

I paired my Ayras SE with the Hifiman EF400 and it was a definite upgrade from the IFI IDSD Signature. The sound was much more open and the detailed and more prominent. I then purchased the Singxer SA1 amp and attached it to my EF400 and for me I believe have found the perfect pairing I was looking for with no EQ. The Singxer adds a slightly fuller low end and smooths the high end peaks of the Arya a bit, which I like because I'm treble sensitive. Love it.


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## Patu

Well I have one arriving next week (I hope so). I'll let you know how it runs my Dan Clarks and also the ATC's.


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## RayMets1 (Oct 28, 2022)

Patu said:


> Well I have one arriving next week (I hope so). I'll let you know how it runs my Dan Clarks and also the ATC's.


Yes please do when you receive.
I found it sounds best for me in Low gain setting with low Z impedance and attached fully balanced.  (made correction to low gain.)


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## RayMets1

You can pick up the Singxer SA1 on Apos.com right now for $509


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## DeckHiFi

RayMets1 said:


> You can pick up the Singxer SA1 on Apos.com right now for $509


Wow that's big news, thanks! The Burton Soloist 3x is on a good sale on headphones.com right now too. But then the SA-1 is looking like a super attractive price on Apos. Dang.


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## JohanE

The SA-1 and DCA Aeon 2 Noire makes for a GREAT match!  Loving this combination. 
Oh and yes, I have a balanced cable already ordered. Waiting for it to arrive!


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## JaquesGelee

JohanE said:


> The SA-1 and DCA Aeon 2 Noire makes for a GREAT match!  Loving this combination.
> Oh and yes, I have a balanced cable already ordered. Waiting for it to arrive!


Low or High Gain?


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## etroze86

JaquesGelee said:


> Low or High Gain?


Always high gain with the SA1 lol


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## DeckHiFi

Just got this thing today. Sounds awesome with my HD600. Using high gain based on some feedback I've read online. Single Ended so far. Sorry if it's already been mentioned a ton of times in this thread. Do you think I will notice a difference changing my HD600 to balanced for this amp? Loving it so far. The volume pot feels so much better and less harsh changing volume coming from Magni 3+. Glad I got a good price on this thanks to someone posting on this forum! Very happy...but would love to hear thoughts on HD600 with this amp and Balanced vs SE thoughts?


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## TheMiddleSky

DeckHiFi said:


> Just got this thing today. Sounds awesome with my HD600. Using high gain based on some feedback I've read online. Single Ended so far. Sorry if it's already been mentioned a ton of times in this thread. Do you think I will notice a difference changing my HD600 to balanced for this amp? Loving it so far. The volume pot feels so much better and less harsh changing volume coming from Magni 3+. Glad I got a good price on this thanks to someone posting on this forum! Very happy...but would love to hear thoughts on HD600 with this amp and Balanced vs SE thoughts?



Balance all the way with SA-1.


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## dstarr3

I agree 100%, you gotta go balanced. Here's an inexpensive balanced cable for Senn cans, I have this same one on my 6XX, never let me down:
https://smile.amazon.com/Youkamoo-Replacement-Upgrade-Compatible-Headphones/dp/B08LF295B2


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## Plieb

DeckHiFi said:


> Just got this thing today. Sounds awesome with my HD600. Using high gain based on some feedback I've read online. Single Ended so far. Sorry if it's already been mentioned a ton of times in this thread. Do you think I will notice a difference changing my HD600 to balanced for this amp? Loving it so far. The volume pot feels so much better and less harsh changing volume coming from Magni 3+. Glad I got a good price on this thanks to someone posting on this forum! Very happy...but would love to hear thoughts on HD600 with this amp and Balanced vs SE thoughts?


No comparison! You must go balanced output. I have 6xx and 660s. Using rca 2.1 volt input high gain low z. Lots of headroom.  Using single ended output way too low. Need balanced output to gain the benefits of balanced sound.


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## RayMets1 (Nov 7, 2022)

Although just received my Singxer Sa1 last week from Apos.com, i also just purchased the Focal Radiance and considered selling the SA1, but I like it to much and took it off classified and going to keep it.


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## Friskyseal

I'm going to be the voice of dissent and put in a vote for running the HD 600 single ended. 🤷‍♂️I have the SA-1 and both 600/650 and always have felt that the 600 series sounds better single-ended. They are supposed to be a smooth and intimate listen so I feel like the changes balanced operation brings do not play to its strengths and it sounds weird. The stage is farther out and spread apart. Dynamics are better but it's still not a dynamic headphone so it just sounds fake and forced.

Obviously for this I mean SE-in/SE-out so there is no degradation in sound quality. I run them out of the SA-1 on low gain and am never wanting for power.

I don't feel this way with any other headphone. Everything else sounds better balanced.


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## Plieb

Friskyseal said:


> I'm going to be the voice of dissent and put in a vote for running the HD 600 single ended. 🤷‍♂️I have the SA-1 and both 600/650 and always have felt that the 600 series sounds better single-ended. They are supposed to be a smooth and intimate listen so I feel like the changes balanced operation brings do not play to its strengths and it sounds weird. The stage is farther out and spread apart. Dynamics are better but it's still not a dynamic headphone so it just sounds fake and forced.
> 
> Obviously for this I mean SE-in/SE-out so there is no degradation in sound quality. I run them out of the SA-1 on low gain and am never wanting for power.
> 
> I don't feel this way with any other headphone. Everything else sounds better balanced.


How may volts via your rca in? I would think it needs to be more than 2 volts?


----------



## Friskyseal

Plieb said:


> How may volts via your rca in? I would think it needs to be more than 2 volts?



2 volts via the Bifrost 2/64. I have identical pairs of cables (XLR, RCA) out of the DAC into the SA-1. Whenever I listen to the 6XX I flip the switch on the amp to toggle RCA input.


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## DeckHiFi

Friskyseal said:


> 2 volts via the Bifrost 2/64. I have identical pairs of cables (XLR, RCA) out of the DAC into the SA-1. Whenever I listen to the 6XX I flip the switch on the amp to toggle RCA input.


I've been using HD600 SE with high gain so far. I might try low gain since you like it. It sounds great so far overall. But yea it's always the classic - could it be even better? Very much appreciate you chiming in with the dissenting opinion. It totally makes sense based on the strengths of the HD600 with what you're saying.


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## Plieb

DeckHiFi said:


> I've been using HD600 SE with high gain so far. I might try low gain since you like it. It sounds great so far overall. But yea it's always the classic - could it be even better? Very much appreciate you chiming in with the dissenting opinion. It totally makes sense based on the strengths of the HD600 with what you're saying.


Funny. Im using a 2.1 volt ess 9038q2m dac via  SE  input  high gain and the volume is anemic via SE output. Im using a very efficient focal elex that doesn't require a lot of power. Using the same apparatus with my SE Rebel amp and i can blow your head off!


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## DeckHiFi (Nov 7, 2022)

Might just be new equipment bias: with my HD600 with Modius and the SA-1... I don't need my low shelf EQ that I did on the Magni 3+ to make the headphones have a bass life. I'm liking the sound with no EQ a lot more on this amp. Loving with high gain with no EQ so far. I feel like it has plenty of volume SE (about 2 o'clock on pot or less on high gain) to give everything impact. Not saying it's better than balanced, because haven't tested yet. But I wonder if some people think this amp doesn't have enough impact SE because they don't turn up the volume pot enough (or use high gain). Passion for Sound video on this amp goes over the volume pot increase compared to other amps (not sure if he separated that thought out SE vs balanced).


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## hottyson

Friskyseal said:


> I'm going to be the voice of dissent and put in a vote for running the HD 600 single ended. 🤷‍♂️I have the SA-1 and both 600/650 and always have felt that the 600 series sounds better single-ended.


The Sennheiser Massdrop HD-6XX is the headphone that I absolutely hated the sound out of every single solid state amplifier that I own when listened with it single ended output connecting the stock factory single ended cable. I complained plenty for about two years telling everyone everywhere how I hated the HD-6XX. I hated it so much that I deemed it not worthy of purchasing a balanced headphone cable for it.
.
However, I finally got a cheap balanced cable for my beloved HD-58X. When I experimented with it connected the HD-6XX through balanced output of my solid state headphone amplifiers my jaw dropped and I ate crow. How is it that I had been hating these headphones for such a long period of time? Using balanced output to drive HD-6XX, the following amplifiers in order of preference sounded wonderful:

Questyle CMA Twelve (A+)
Headamp GS-X mini (A+)
SCHIIT JOTUNHEIM 2 (A)
SINGXER SA-1 (A)


----------



## DeckHiFi

^ Ha ok. you twisted my arm. I'll buy a cheap balanced cable for my HD600 (even if it is a different situation). I have to after that post. If it made THAT much of a difference. Exciting stuff.


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## dstarr3

My 6XX (and by extension, the 600 and 650) on my SA-1 is one of those synergies that makes me go "Okay, the engineers designed this amp specifically for this headphone, didn't they?" It is an absolutely outstanding combo, and if you're only a cheap balanced cable away from fully experiencing it, I can't recommend it enough


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## DeckHiFi (Nov 7, 2022)

dstarr3 said:


> My 6XX (and by extension, the 600 and 650) on my SA-1 is one of those synergies that makes me go "Okay, the engineers designed this amp specifically for this headphone, didn't they?" It is an absolutely outstanding combo, and if you're only a cheap balanced cable away from fully experiencing it, I can't recommend it enough


This amp is already so amazing with what I wrote above...I'm loving it. So if balanced makes it even better...I might not know what to do. : ) Danggg this is fun. Also tonight definitely makes me a believer that thinking all amps are the same is silly. This amp sounds so much better than Magni 3+ to me - feels like I'm finally getting the magic. There is a reason why this amp got great reviews.


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## Plieb (Nov 7, 2022)

dstarr3 said:


> My 6XX (and by extension, the 600 and 650) on my SA-1 is one of those synergies that makes me go "Okay, the engineers designed this amp specifically for this headphone, didn't they?" It is an absolutely outstanding combo, and if you're only a cheap balanced cable away from fully experiencing it, I can't recommend it enough


I  think the 660s leaves the 6xx in the dust on the SA 1. Great combo where the amp fixes the  slight brightness of the 660s. Ultra smooth  and dynamic sound. Fantastic detail and tons of power with this 150 ohm headphone. Of course im using the supplied balanced cable. The 660s on Amazon is around $320 which now makes it a fantastic bargain vs any 600 series version. Again to reiterate you get a SE and Balanced cable with the 660s.


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## roderickvd

Adding to this, it’s not just about the extra voltage swing a balanced connection gives. The SA-1 just has better SQ on balanced in, balanced out. To my ears: more clarity, wider soundstage.


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## Lolito2

After a year, i switched it to high gain, and works so much better for both external active speakers and for headphones... Since the potentiometer is exponential, in high gain works better, louder for m the get go, when it is in pure class A, distorts much less than when it gets into class A/B. I se also 6XX with balanced cable, I have also single ended cable, but this amp works better balanced.


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## TheMiddleSky

Lolito2 said:


> After a year, i switched it to high gain, and works so much better for both external active speakers and for headphones... Since the potentiometer is exponential, in high gain works better, louder for m the get go, when it is in pure class A, distorts much less than when it gets into class A/B. I se also 6XX with balanced cable, I have also single ended cable, but this amp works better balanced.



How do you know when the amp start to switch from Pure A to AB?


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## DeckHiFi (Nov 11, 2022)

All these impressions are with SE-in. I don't have balanced cables going from Modius to SA-1 yet. I wonder what people thoughts are if Balanced-in matters or not. 

First impressions with balanced with HD 600, Modius, and SA-1, high gain - THIS IS GREAT! thanks for the suggestion everyone. I'm not the best at describing differences but for balanced vs SE differences: seems like balanced has more bass impact and the voices around the studio seem to feel more real. It's not as much of on SE where it's like - ok this instrument is right there on your head. Now it's like everything has more impact and blends together more and goes around me more on more songs. If any of that makes sense. I can see why someone might prefer the SE in my setup, there are differences. SE is more relaxed and still has great center focus on the singer where you can feel how close they are to the mic. Balanced just does everything well though. Hard to find any faults so far, I'll do some more listening this weekend.

Edit: it's possible SE might be better for the singer/center focus of that main voice. I totally see what the person was saying. That can bring out more emotion potentially. Too early to tell though.

Double Edit: I think I might like low gain better than high gain with balanced. It just felt like everything was really loud and lost the smoothness I loved on SE when in high gain, balanced. Low gain brings back the easy to listen quality of this amp so far. Center focus voices sound great low gain balanced. Seems to make logical sense that I would like low gain on balanced, and high gain on SE since balanced is getting more power.


----------



## Alex May

DeckHiFi said:


> Double Edit: I think I might like low gain better than high gain with balanced. It just felt like everything was really loud and lost the smoothness I loved on SE when in high gain, balanced. Low gain brings back the easy to listen quality of this amp so far. Center focus voices sound great low gain balanced. Seems to make logical sense that I would like low gain on balanced, and high gain on SE since balanced is getting more power.


Are you sure you're talking about gain (four switches on the bottom) and not Hi/Low-Z (impedance)?


----------



## DeckHiFi

Alex May said:


> Are you sure you're talking about gain (four switches on the bottom) and not Hi/Low-Z (impedance)?


Yes talking about the switches on bottom. Just fun initial impressions. I know on balanced the high gain is a lot louder so I need to turn the knob down of course, it just seems like everything was in my face too much and I was losing presence of the singer which seemed similar to what the person that preferred SE on this amp was saying 
. But I could have just had the volume pot in the wrong position on high gain without testing enough. It seems like low gain fixed all those issues for me on a quick check.


----------



## roderickvd

It is likely that there is a little more distortion on high gain. That might explain for some perceived differences. 

I also run in low gain whenever I can.


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## DeckHiFi (Nov 12, 2022)

Yes - anyone that didn't like how this amp sounded balanced, try low gain with volume pot at around 2 o'clock (or close to max volume) with lo-z -with HD600 or similar headphone. Disclaimer: this is while using a modius dac with rca into the SA-1. Waiting for my balanced cables in the mail to see if the balanced connection from dac to amp makes a difference.

I think you need to turn up low gain a good amount on this amp, but it sounds so good when you get the volume right. The center voice sounds great now, and it's a very head bobbing experience with balanced out as it's a very full sound. SE out was also great on high gain, but I can see why people love balanced now on this thing. It's tremendous.


----------



## Lolito2

TheMiddleSky said:


> How do you know when the amp start to switch from Pure A to AB?



I do not know it, but the beginning of the volume is A, the highest is AB and distorts. In high gain it can stay in class A at higher volume. for the same amount of DB, sounds better in high gain, much more solid and powerful.


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## DeckHiFi (Nov 13, 2022)

Lolito2 said:


> I do not know it, but the beginning of the volume is A, the highest is AB and distorts. In high gain it can stay in class A at higher volume. for the same amount of DB, sounds better in high gain, much more solid and powerful.


Yes I might be noticing that on low gain when I turn it up too high or I’m just overdoing outside the midrange which clutters the sound. I still think low gain at around 2-4 o’clock is amazing for the hd600. Preserving the great mid range - balanced out. Balanced-out in general seems much more powerful. What headphones do you use with this amp?


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## RayMets1

Lolito2 said:


> I do not know it, but the beginning of the volume is A, the highest is AB and distorts. In high gain it can stay in class A at higher volume. for the same amount of DB, sounds better in high gain, much more solid and powerful.


I agree, I listen to my Aryas in High gain, low z and I get nice full sound at 9 to 10 o'clock, especially in the low end. I don't get that in low gain, which gets shouty after about 2 o'clock which I assume is the transition to A/B.


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## DeckHiFi (Nov 13, 2022)

Ok I’m going to use high gain just in case the A/B is a thing on low gain. Sounds good so far. Just have to keep the volume pot low but this should be great too. It’s always a better feeling knowing you’re maxing out the amp. Sounds great. Thanks for all your help you two and others ! Now we just have to enjoy the music.


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## roderickvd

Class A or AB operation is totally dependent on the connected headphones and power output. From Singxer:

_SA-1's Class A model:
Balanced 16 ohm load: below 500mw;
Balanced 32 ohm load: below 1000mw;
Balanced load of 68 ohms: below 3000mw;
Balance the load above 68 ohms: almost all power is Class A;_


----------



## Lolito2

DeckHiFi said:


> Yes I might be noticing that on low gain when I turn it up too high or I’m just overdoing outside the midrange which clutters the sound. I still think low gain at around 2-4 o’clock is amazing for the hd600. Preserving the great mid range - balanced out. Balanced-out in general seems much more powerful. What headphones do you use with this amp?


Well, balanced is already 2 times the wattage, to start with. But also, this amp is designed balanced, single ended sounds great too, but worse, less detail, less soundstage... hd600 sounds great in low or high gain, but still, in my experience, sounds better in high gain at 9-10, than at low gain at 2-4... also, since the pot is exponential, from 9-10 is much more lineal, you have much more range of adjustment, from 2-4 you have to be much more precise with the finger. I use them more with LCD2C, and are2 dac.


----------



## DeckHiFi

Lolito2 said:


> Well, balanced is already 2 times the wattage, to start with. But also, this amp is designed balanced, single ended sounds great too, but worse, less detail, less soundstage... hd600 sounds great in low or high gain, but still, in my experience, sounds better in high gain at 9-10, than at low gain at 2-4... also, since the pot is exponential, from 9-10 is much more lineal, you have much more range of adjustment, from 2-4 you have to be much more precise with the finger. I use them more with LCD2C, and are2 dac.


Yea I have modius right now. Thinking about Bifrost or Ares 2 / new one at some point. Or something at similar price point with great performance. I wonder if one has the advantage with hd600.


----------



## Thetaburn

DeckHiFi said:


> Ok I’m going to use high gain just in case the A/B is a thing on low gain. Sounds good so far. Just have to keep the volume pot low but this should be great too. It’s always a better feeling knowing you’re maxing out the amp. Sounds great. Thanks for all your help you two and others ! Now we just have to enjoy the music.


I find that on low gain, their is more sound seperation and space.  High gain more dynamics and bass but the sound become a bit messy.


----------



## RayMets1

DeckHiFi said:


> Yea I have modius right now. Thinking about Bifrost or Ares 2 / new one at some point. Or something at similar price point with great performance. I wonder if one has the advantage with hd600.


I am using the Hifiman EF400 Dac/Amp paired with the Singxer Sa1 amp with the Aryas. The EF400 has the Hifiman Himalaya R2R DAC in it. That Dac sounds amazing and also has a decent Amp, but paired with the Singxer makes the Aryas really shine. They are actually on sale this week at Apos for $500. Which could be a cheaper alternative.


----------



## DeckHiFi

I am using the Hifiman EF400 Dac/Amp paired with the Singxer Sa1 amp with the Aryas. The EF400 has the Hifiman Himalaya R2R DAC in it. That Dac sounds amazing and also has a decent Amp, but paired with the Singxer makes the Aryas really shine. They are actually on sale this week at Apos for $500. Which could be a cheaper alternative

Cool. Just curious have you noticed differences between your dac with the Sa-1 compared to a delta sigma dac?


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## RayMets1 (Nov 14, 2022)

DeckHiFi said:


> I am using the Hifiman EF400 Dac/Amp paired with the Singxer Sa1 amp with the Aryas. The EF400 has the Hifiman Himalaya R2R DAC in it. That Dac sounds amazing and also has a decent Amp, but paired with the Singxer makes the Aryas really shine. They are actually on sale this week at Apos for $500. Which could be a cheaper alternative
> 
> Cool. Just curious have you noticed differences between your dac with the Sa-1 compared to a delta sigma dac?


Yes, with the R2R Dac it has a smoother sound especially in the high end. I no longer have to eq the treble down on my Aryas. The Delta Sigma Dac has a harsher more and analytical sound. Depends on what you want, you can choose between them.


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## DeckHiFi (Nov 14, 2022)

Thetaburn said:


> I find that on low gain, their is more sound seperation and space.  High gain more dynamics and bass but the sound become a bit messy.


It's hard to judge the differences between low and high gain. Because it's subtle compared to the difference between balanced and single ended. High gain and low gain could just be getting to the right gain/power that sounds great to each individual based on how their headphones work and their own preferences.

The differences between balanced and single ended on this amp seems significant for the HD600. And I don't mean significant necessarily in terms of one is clearly better than the other. It seems the more I get into this hobby, the more I realize there are trade offs to everything. Single ended with HD600 does seem to create more emotion to certain songs because more focus is on the midrange and some voices going to the side have more presence in the middle too. Something about it works well for certain songs. Perhaps more emotion comes from the magic of the midrange with single ended. Single ended seems to do a great job of positioning a sound. However, balanced does an incredible job of giving tons of room to the center voice, and then having a super dynamic/musical sound. A fuller sound too. And it's not like the center voice is bad, it might be even better as it has so much to it and it's totally engrossing. Any instruments in the center of the soundstage really have impact with balanced out too.

I think analytically, balanced out sounds better in terms of all the positives it's doing. Everything sounds full and musical. But is it better when it comes to emotion of listening to music? Perhaps this all depends on the song. For example: on balanced out: paranoid android by Radiohead sounds incredible. Let down by Radiohead doesn't have the emotion/impact that it should.

Either way, this amp is super enjoyable.

Edit: Around 12-1 o'clock with high gain sounds great single ended. Around 10-11 on dial with high gain sounds great balanced. This is all with modius(single ended in). I'll report back if I notice any difference going to balanced out of the modius.


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## DeckHiFi (Nov 17, 2022)

Thetaburn said:


> I find that on low gain, their is more sound seperation and space.  High gain more dynamics and bass but the sound become a bit messy.


Perfect example that I shouldn't have been too quick to judge or too lazy to change gain again. I think you're completely right. I was just noticing this tonight on high gain and thought about your comment again. You're right - the bass and dynamics is really enjoyable on high gain, but you can lose the voices because things get messy. It's almost like instruments literally trample over voices. That's what was causing a lot of my observations between single ended and balanced out per my comment above. Balanced out low gain fixes the problems of ruining Let Down by Radiohead and probably many other songs. This is it!! Thank you for explaining it well. So basically cancel everything I said before about the limitations of balanced out. Balanced out low gain is GREAT!! I like it around 1-3 on dial for HD600. Thanks again!!! You brought back the separation of the voices that I needed to feel the music (or hear what I am supposed to, ha).

Take away: There are probably some differences still between single ended out high gain and balanced out low gain, but this fixes the biggest problems with balanced out and keeps a lot of the great stuff. Maybe other headphones are different, but I think Thetaburn nailed the key to this amp.


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## Friskyseal (Nov 17, 2022)

If you are doing these comparisons with the Modius, it's important to note that there is a significant difference between the SE and XLR outs of the Modius. It uses separate and distinct opamps for the analog stage so they are noted to sound quite different. (It's right there on Schiit's page: LME49724 for balanced and OPA1656 for the SE.) The subjective reports are that the SE outs of the Modius are inferior to the XLR, with the SE out being thicker and bassier and the XLR being more balanced and "studio neutral." The Modius is not a good DAC to compare the SE and XLR outs of the Singxer; you need a DAC that has identical components for its output (like Bifrost 2). You may just be hearing the differences in the DAC.


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## DeckHiFi (Nov 30, 2022)

Friskyseal said:


> If you are doing these comparisons with the Modius, it's important to note that there is a significant difference between the SE and XLR outs of the Modius. It uses separate and distinct opamps for the analog stage so they are noted to sound quite different. (It's right there on Schiit's page: LME49724 for balanced and OPA1656 for the SE.) The subjective reports are that the SE outs of the Modius are inferior to the XLR, with the SE out being thicker and bassier and the XLR being more balanced and "studio neutral." The Modius is not a good DAC to compare the SE and XLR outs of the Singxer; you need a DAC that has identical components for its output (like Bifrost 2). You may just be hearing the differences in the DAC.


Thank you!

Edit again: not really testing different modius outs back and forth (might as well use modius as intended-balanced), but loving this amp!
Final equipment and settings for now:
- Modius->SA-1->HD600.
- balanced in/balanced out.
- high gain
- low-Z
- using EQ from Amir's HD650 review (Find the review and EQ on the ASR website. Preamp at -8.5 in EQ software seems to work well to bring bass to 0dB).
- Verdict: I can't believe how good this sounds. I hope everyone has a setup this good or better. This completely blows me away. Makes me think that perhaps all subjective stuff other than soundstage and having enough power is completely bs. The clarity now is so good and dynamic. Love Amir's conservative approach to EQ and preference for balanced (really helps when using EQ especially - need the extra power). He gets it and explains headphone measurements and what not to do with EQ really well in a YouTube video. I know this is an amp review, but just in case anyone wants to get the most out of their setup.


----------



## hundreth

I recently got an SA-1, really enjoying it.

I was considering getting some 4.4 cables for my 6XX to pair with it. Has anyone used the 4.4 output and compared it to the XLR? Are they the same in performance?


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## lightoflight

hundreth said:


> I recently got an SA-1, really enjoying it.
> 
> I was considering getting some 4.4 cables for my 6XX to pair with it. Has anyone used the 4.4 output and compared it to the XLR? Are they the same in performance?


I've tried the 4.4 output and it sounded different in a bad way than the XLR.


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## Plieb

lightoflight said:


> I've tried the 4.4 output and it sounded different in a bad way than the XLR.


I tried both and could not detect a sonic difference.


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## Thetaburn

lightoflight said:


> I've tried the 4.4 output and it sounded different in a bad way than the XLR.


What is the difference?


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## Thetaburn

Recently purchased a used Burson Soloist 3x.
A/ B ING that against the Sa1. Initial impression is that the Sa1 has tremendous value. 

Ease of use goes to the SA1.
Toogle switches is the way to go.

Technically the soloist is better in term of depth. 
The Soloist is quirky, you have to power the unit with nothing plugged in. If headphone ares are plugged in, there is a moderately loud pop sound. Same for powering down. 

On the Soloist, sound signature is very dynamic, whereas singxer is soft and relaxed. That's personal preference.

Still not sure which one to keep, as the Soloist is double the price of a SA1.


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## lightoflight

Plieb said:


> I tried both and could not detect a sonic difference.


Because we're both using different equipment so results will vary. In my case, I will never use the 4.4.


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## lightoflight

Thetaburn said:


> What is the difference?


My SA-1 is my summertime amp, so it's not plugged in right now. I'm going by memory here; 4.4 was noticeably lower in resolution.


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## Alex May

lightoflight said:


> I've tried the 4.4 output and it sounded different in a bad way than the XLR.


It means that your 4.4 cable sucked in a bad way in terms of low quality materials used or some fault in assembly. There is no other explanation because the SA-1 circuitry connecting to the XLR and 4.4 is absolutely the same.


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## lightoflight (Dec 8, 2022)

Alex May said:


> It means that your 4.4 cable sucked in a bad way in terms of low quality materials used or some fault in assembly. There is no other explanation because the SA-1 circuitry connecting to the XLR and 4.4 is absolutely the same.


I don't know, maybe. I used the same headphone HE1000se, same silver plated 7N OCC cable terminated in 4.4 and a ddHifi 4.4 to 4 pin XLR adapter. The equipment shown here.


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## Alex May (Dec 8, 2022)

@lightoflight Silver plated technology is a bad choice in the first place, especially for high resolving transducers. It might not be noticeable for the majority of the headphones, especially dynamic. But when using silver plated cables as interconnects between DACs and amplifiers, or for high resolving planars, you can sometimes hear the difference. Since the signal travels primarily along the surface of the conductor, coating it with a metal of different conductivity, combined with high capacitance, degrades the signal. Of course, it depends on many factors that lead to difference in conductivity, capacitance, interference and filtering caused by plating. I clearly see that you have a low quality cable in your photograph that's not commensurate with the quality of your headphones. I have no idea why there might be an improvement using the XLR adapter. Maybe it rectifies the filtering effect in some way. Maybe it has some influence on capacitance, I don't know.

Regardless of the explanation, the fact remains the same: the circuitry that feeds the signal to the 4.4 and XLR in the SA-1 is the same. If you hear a difference, it is caused by external factors and nothing else. The problem here is to isolate those external factors. Anyway, it has nothing to do with the amplifier itself.


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## hundreth

lightoflight said:


> Because we're both using different equipment so results will vary. In my case, I will never use the 4.4.


Thanks for the response. Seems odd that they would sound different but it is possible. Hopefully others chime in.


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## Thetaburn

Alex May said:


> @lightoflight Silver plated technology is a bad choice in the first place, especially for high resolving transducers. It might not be noticeable for the majority of the headphones, especially dynamic. But when using silver plated cables as interconnects between DACs and amplifiers, or for high resolving planars, you can sometimes hear the difference. Since the signal travels primarily along the surface of the conductor, coating it with a metal of different conductivity, combined with high capacitance, degrades the signal. Of course, it depends on many factors that lead to difference in conductivity, capacitance, interference and filtering caused by plating. I clearly see that you have a low quality cable in your photograph that's not commensurate with the quality of your headphones. I have no idea why there might be an improvement using the XLR adapter. Maybe it rectifies the filtering effect in some way. Maybe it has some influence on capacitance, I don't know.
> 
> Regardless of the explanation, the fact remains the same: the circuitry that feeds the signal to the 4.4 and XLR in the SA-1 is the same. If you hear a difference, it is caused by external factors and nothing else. The problem here is to isolate those external factors. Anyway, it has nothing to do with the amplifier itself.


The 3 stock cables included with the Hekv2 are silver plated.......
Sound signature is different from pure OCC copper vs silver plated vs pure silver.
Didn't know, silver plated cable could degrade signal though.


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## Alex May

Thetaburn said:


> The 3 stock cables included with the Hekv2 are silver plated.......


The stock cables from Hifiman are notoriously the worst among all the headphone manufacturers. Even with their highest top tier headphones. Therefore, all the Hifiman users always have to buy third party cables. At least those I heard of, including myself. Audiophile Ninja, Hart Audio Cables and Periapt are the most popular budget options. Tripowin GranVia is an honorable mention as a very budget but still quality option. And then there are Arctic Cables and Forza AudioWorks.


Thetaburn said:


> Sound signature is different from pure OCC copper vs silver plated vs pure silver.


Absolutely.


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## Lolito2

It sounds so much better via balanced output than single ended...

kanker lol


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## hundreth

Can anyone explain something related to this amp and gain levels?

On high gain it's at +11db. Some reviewers and normal listeners have noted that they weren't able to get enough drive out of this amp because it's only +11db, where standard amps are between +16db and +30db gain.

If that's the case, then what is the relationship between this gain level, volume, and measured power? If we're measuring 6+ watts out of this unit, why are there reports that it can't drive certain headphones and how is that related to this gain level?


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## Glokta

The measured / declared power is already with the gain switches to max, at a certain input voltage, usually 4V using the balanced input. That gain value that you see (11, 16dB....etc) is not added to the power output shown on paper.
What you need to look at an amp is if it distorts at the said gain level (this one doesn't) and what are you going to feed it with because if you're going RCA 2V route then obviously you're not going to reach peak power.
I've no idea what other user reported and what it can't drive, from what I've seen a lot don't know or understand that it has a logarithmic volume pot and they get scared when it reaches 3 o'clock and the volume is lower than their other less powerful amp. What I can tell you is that fed by a 5V output DAC it can drive HE6SE v2 in normal gain mode without even reaching max volume on the pot.


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## hundreth (Dec 29, 2022)

Glokta said:


> The measured / declared power is already with the gain switches to max, at a certain input voltage, usually 4V using the balanced input. That gain value that you see (11, 16dB....etc) is not added to the power output shown on paper.
> What you need to look at an amp is if it distorts at the said gain level (this one doesn't) and what are you going to feed it with because if you're going RCA 2V route then obviously you're not going to reach peak power.
> I've no idea what other user reported and what it can't drive, from what I've seen a lot don't know or understand that it has a logarithmic volume pot and they get scared when it reaches 3 o'clock and the volume is lower than their other less powerful amp. What I can tell you is that fed by a 5V output DAC it can drive HE6SE v2 in normal gain mode without even reaching max volume on the pot.



Thanks for the explanation. Very helpful.

I was looking at this review here:
https://soundnews.net/amplifiers/headphone-amps/singxer-sa-1-class-a-headphone-amplifier-review/

Where he says:
"It offers some 6480 mW in 32Ω and 380mW in 600Ω on its balanced outputs and I’m not sure how much power is being offered on its regular jack, since there aren’t any official specifications. Its low gain position uses the unity gain (0 dB) and that is the best gain setting for IEMs and sensitive headphones. Its high-gain adds 11 dB of gain and that could be a slight issue with hard to drive headphones, as usually high-gain sits at around 16 to 30 dB of gain, sometimes even higher, will see about that very soon."

and...

"I’ve observed that with the Audiobyte HydraVox that offers a lower voltage of 3.8 V on its XLR output, the high-gain wasn’t enough with some particular headphones. For example, Audeze LCD-4 were almost maxed out, leaving little to no headroom for better mastered music. In my humble opinion, Singxer should go with a higher gain, 16, 20 or 25 dB would be perfect with much harder loads. The good news is that when I’ve switched to a Gustard X26 PRO that outputs a much higher 5V on its XLR, the volume plunged higher and SA-1 was now fully driving the LCD-4 with flying colors, leaving plenty of headroom for higher dynamics. If you find it a little overwhelming at first, I recommend trying a source that can output a higher voltage to the industry standard 4V and you’ll be squeezing more power from it."

"
There is one thing that I dislike the most about it: its gain settings, more exactly its high gain that offers an increase of only 11 dB (a 3.8-time magnification). Usually, desktop headphone amplifiers offer a higher gain, somewhere between 16 and 30 dB on their high-gain setting. Here are just several examples: Headamp goes with a gain of ~21 dB on their GSX MKII, Flux Lab Acoustics goes with a gain of 25 dB on their FA-10, Audio-GD goes higher to 31 dB with HE-9, so on and so forth. In simpler words, SA-1 can struggle with several hard to drive headphones as Audeze LCD-4, even Hifiman Arya can pose a small problem. You can solve that issue by adding gain from your source. If your DAC outputs 4V or less on its XLR output, then SA-1 will be almost maxed out with headphones like Audeze LCD-4, but if your DAC provides a higher voltage like 5V (Topping D70S, Gustard X26 PRO) or 6V (Gustard A22), then that will work as a gain increase and SA-1 will offer you back more power, driving harder loads much easier. When I’ve used it with the Audiobyte Hydravox that outputs 3.8V, Singxer struggled a bit and it worked much better with DACs that offered a higher voltage."

So I'm guessing he just didn't understand the logarithmic pot? If the measured power is at 4V, we shouldn't need a special DAC to pair with this amp.


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## Glokta

I don't remember LCD-4 being harder to drive than HE6SE...
With 630mw at 300Ohm, if you feed it 4V you should be alright for almost everything you throw at it.
As I said above, the hardest to drive headphone that I own is the HE6SE v2 and SA-1 delivers without a problem.


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## hottyson

Glokta said:


> What I can tell you is that fed by a 5V output DAC it can drive HE6SE v2 in normal gain mode without even reaching max volume on the pot.


I agree with your statement. However I would not recommend the Singxer SA-1 to anyone that is searching for an amplifier to pair with the HifiMan HE6se V2 as there are much better amplifiers that pair with the HEse V2 for less money. The Singxer SA-1/HifiMan HE6se V2 pairing does not sound bad since it has some muscle, but the combo is less than stellar producing a comparatively muffled, stifled sound stage that is less dynamic compared to many of my other amplifiers.
.
My top three placing amplifiers to pair with the HE6se V2 in no particular order are:
Rebel Audio RebelAmp creating dreamy refined highs. Pairs as well as the next two amplifiers in this list but at a very low price point!
Headamp GS-X mini excelling at creating a sense of clarity but pronounced brightness that helps to achieve pronounced imaging
Questyle CMA Twelve pure clear mid range, rounded with the edges taken off
.
Just slightly below those three amazing pairings is no slouch, the Schiit Jotunheim 2 which produces a superior sound stage and enveloping three dimensional realism that the Singxer SA-1 lacks. This is one amplifier that costs less than the SA-1 that I would recommend pairing with the HifiMan HE6se V2.
.
Some other  of my amplifiers that I do not recommend, also outperform the Singxer SA-1. These are:
Massdrop Liquid Carbon X + SDAC retains god tonality of the HE6se V2 but has reduced width of the soundstage/image of the Jotunheim 2, and loss of resolution and texture
Beyerdynamic A20 widened sound stage, however the volume maxes out and this pairing lacks dynamic slam. Too smoothed out.
Headamp Gilmore Lite MK2 Highs are clearer than Jotunheim 2, but treble overload
.
So, those are my amplifiers that outperform the Singxer SA-1 when pairing with HifiMan HE6se V2. The remaining unmentioned amplifiers of my collection are outperformed by the SA-1 when paired with the HifiMan HE6se V2.


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## Glokta (Dec 30, 2022)

hottyson said:


> I agree with your statement. However I would not recommend the Singxer SA-1 to anyone that is searching for an amplifier to pair with the HifiMan HE6se V2 as there are much better amplifiers that pair with the HEse V2 for less money. The Singxer SA-1/HifiMan HE6se V2 pairing does not sound bad since it has some muscle, but the combo is less than stellar producing a comparatively muffled, stifled sound stage that is less dynamic compared to many of my other amplifiers.


I've done some A/B testing, I have a sound level meter and a switch box...
To be honest I haven't heard any difference between it and the Violectric V550 or the iFi pro ican. I don't have any experience with the other amps that you've mentioned.


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## P1ayer

hottyson said:


> Just slightly below those three amazing pairings is no slouch, the Schiit Jotunheim 2 which produces a superior sound stage and enveloping three dimensional realism that the Singxer SA-1 lacks. This is one amplifier that costs less than the SA-1 that I would recommend pairing with the HifiMan HE6se V2.


I can't disagree with you. 
I will listen to SA1 with HD600 and comparing it I come to the same conclusion. 
SA1 sounds like a "wall of sound", this is its main problem for me. Unfortunately, I can't get into the music and enjoy listening to it.. 
Another unsolvable problem is the acquisition of Schiit Jotunheim 2 in russia..


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## DeckHiFi (Dec 30, 2022)

P1ayer said:


> I can't disagree with you.
> I will listen to SA1 with HD600 and comparing it I come to the same conclusion.
> SA1 sounds like a "wall of sound", this is its main problem for me. Unfortunately, I can't get into the music and enjoy listening to it..
> Another unsolvable problem is the acquisition of Schiit Jotunheim 2 in russia..


Just remember that is the HD600 signature. It's very enjoyable in the midrange but it isn't doing anything special in terms of staging. Not saying an amp can't make a difference, but in terms of accuracy, I haven't seen any evidence that it matters. If we are talking about distortions, then sure.

I have the SA-1 and HD600 and I think it sounds amazing with the EQ I have. The most important thing is the headphones and the song. : ) Oh and making sure you have enough power to get the most dynamics out of said headphones.


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## hottyson

P1ayer said:


> I will listen to SA1 with HD600





DeckHiFi said:


> I have the SA-1 and HD600 and I think it sounds amazing with the EQ I have.


I recently acquired more headphone gear for a Christmas present to myself. I haven't taken the time to listen to the new stuff yet. One of the items is a new Sennheiser HD600. I will have to do some listening with my headphone amplifiers before I come to any conclusions. I do know that with my old Sennheiser Massdrop HD6XX I found the Singxer SA-1 to be a good pairing over balanced output. Time with my new HD600 will tell me more about which amps work best.


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## hottyson

Glokta said:


> I've done some A/B testing, I have a sound level meter and a switch box...
> To be honest I haven't heard any difference between it and the Violectric V550 or the iFi pro ican. I don't have any experience with the other amps that you've mentioned.


I don't have any experience with either of your amplifiers as they are way above my price range. I do know that both of your amplifiers have extremely good reputations and I would have guessed that they would drive the HifiMan HE6se V2 much better than anything I own. I am surprised that you are not getting superior results from them over the Singxer SA-1.


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## rjacko01

Tell you what I am enjoying is a good pre feeding ae1 actives. Drives the he6se ok for me, but don't have the luxury of others to compare to..


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## DeckHiFi

hottyson said:


> I recently acquired more headphone gear for a Christmas present to myself. I haven't taken the time to listen to the new stuff yet. One of the items is a new Sennheiser HD600. I will have to do some listening with my headphone amplifiers before I come to any conclusions. I do know that with my old Sennheiser Massdrop HD6XX I found the Singxer SA-1 to be a good pairing over balanced output. Time with my new HD600 will tell me more about which amps work best.


Yeah, would love to hear your thoughts over time. I'm very happy with this amp as it seems to do a great job in high gain. Which is important for me to run everything balanced (as even the objective guy Amir would say) because I'm using EQ. So the power requirements to do my EQ setup is more than just getting by. I think there's a very good reason why people still love the HD600. Great sound, and once I got it up to the dynamic volume...I've been constantly loving it.


----------



## hundreth

hottyson said:


> I agree with your statement. However I would not recommend the Singxer SA-1 to anyone that is searching for an amplifier to pair with the HifiMan HE6se V2 as there are much better amplifiers that pair with the HEse V2 for less money. The Singxer SA-1/HifiMan HE6se V2 pairing does not sound bad since it has some muscle, but the combo is less than stellar producing a comparatively muffled, stifled sound stage that is less dynamic compared to many of my other amplifiers.
> .
> My top three placing amplifiers to pair with the HE6se V2 in no particular order are:
> Rebel Audio RebelAmp creating dreamy refined highs. Pairs as well as the next two amplifiers in this list but at a very low price point!
> ...



I wish I had golden ears like yourself to hear all of these subtle differences between those amplifiers.

I volume match A/B tested my Singxer SA-1 against a $150 THX AAA One and they sounded absolutely identical. Before doing this, I experienced massive differences between them.

I do really like the Singxer amp for its power, build, and feature set. Though based on all the reports here I’d have expected it to sound very different from an op amp based linear amp.


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## Revolution1 (Jan 2, 2023)

P1ayer said:


> Another unsolvable problem is the acquisition of Schiit Jotunheim 2 in russia..


Don't worry, you have the opportunity to purchase the wonderful Audio-GD Master 19 without any problems.
Or inexpensive, quality amplifiers on MOSFET transistors from MS Audio Laboratory.


----------



## Glokta

hundreth said:


> I wish I had golden ears like yourself to hear all of these subtle differences between those amplifiers.
> 
> I volume match A/B tested my Singxer SA-1 against a $150 THX AAA One and they sounded absolutely identical. Before doing this, I experienced massive differences between them.
> 
> I do really like the Singxer amp for its power, build, and feature set. Though based on all the reports here I’d have expected it to sound very different from an op amp based linear amp.



I couldn't agree more, our brain is not a precision tool, far by it, plus auditory memory is not something you can rely on, I've fooled myself before until I've done a proper A/B test to see what's what. Topology doesn't change sound signature, an amp's job is to act like a gain wire, if it sounds different then it wasn't designed / built properly (with the exception of tubes).


----------



## dstarr3

Glokta said:


> I couldn't agree more, our brain is not a precision tool, far by it, plus auditory memory is not something you can rely on, I've fooled myself before until I've done a proper A/B test to see what's what. Topology doesn't change sound signature, an amp's job is to act like a gain wire, if it sounds different then it wasn't designed / built properly (with the exception of tubes).


Some would say that in a perfect world, amps wouldn't color the sound in any way. But we don't live in a perfect world, all amps do color the sound in different ways, sometimes subtly and sometimes less so. So in the real world, your only option is to pursue amps that color the sound in a way that suits your tastes.


----------



## hundreth

dstarr3 said:


> Some would say that in a perfect world, amps wouldn't color the sound in any way. But we don't live in a perfect world, all amps do color the sound in different ways, sometimes subtly and sometimes less so. So in the real world, your only option is to pursue amps that color the sound in a way that suits your tastes.



Based on reports from head-fi, youtube reviewers, and other forums the THX and Singxer amps sound very different right? An op-amp based linear amp sounds different from a Class A discrete amp? 

So then why did I hear no difference at all when listening to them against another? Literally no difference, zero, identical sound. Do you believe this is because my ears are defective? Or because I volume matched them with an instantaneous switcher?


----------



## Glokta

dstarr3 said:


> Some would say that in a perfect world, amps wouldn't color the sound in any way. But we don't live in a perfect world, all amps do color the sound in different ways, sometimes subtly and sometimes less so. So in the real world, your only option is to pursue amps that color the sound in a way that suits your tastes.



You are right, they do color the sound in a certain way because there's no such thing 'as the artist intended' but I can't hear any difference between my three solid state amps and I've had my fair share of other different models in the past... 
I have good and revealing headphones so it can't be that and I've scored 39 and then 42 dB (final values) on the Klippel audio distortion test so I guess I have pretty good ears.
Kudos to the guys that can spot the differences, it certainly makes this hobby more fun.


----------



## Glokta

hundreth said:


> Based on reports from head-fi, youtube reviewers, and other forums the THX and Singxer amps sound very different right? An op-amp based linear amp sounds different from a Class A discrete amp?
> 
> So then why did I hear no difference at all when listening to them against another? Literally no difference, zero, identical sound. Do you believe this is because my ears are defective? Or because I volume matched them with an instantaneous switcher?



Oh well, it wouldn't be that good for a reviewer to say that all amps sound the same...
The exception would be Andrew from the Headphone show.


----------



## dstarr3

hundreth said:


> Based on reports from head-fi, youtube reviewers, and other forums the THX and Singxer amps sound very different right? An op-amp based linear amp sounds different from a Class A discrete amp?
> 
> So then why did I hear no difference at all when listening to them against another? Literally no difference, zero, identical sound. Do you believe this is because my ears are defective? Or because I volume matched them with an instantaneous switcher?


I mean, if you can't hear a difference, more power to ya. Certainly simplifies your shopping experience.


----------



## hundreth

dstarr3 said:


> I mean, if you can't hear a difference, more power to ya. Certainly simplifies your shopping experience.



Defective ears then, got it. 🤣

I do agree with your conclusion. Happy listening.


----------



## hottyson

Glokta said:


> I couldn't agree more, our brain is not a precision tool, far by it, plus auditory memory is not something you can rely on, I've fooled myself before until I've done a proper A/B test to see what's what. Topology doesn't change sound signature, an amp's job is to act like a gain wire, if it sounds different then it wasn't designed / built properly (with the exception of tubes).


I don't rely on auditory memory. I have a collection of all of those amplifiers and I A/B them.


----------



## Alex May

hundreth said:


> So then why did I hear no difference at all when listening to them against another? Literally no difference, zero, identical sound. Do you believe this is because my ears are defective? Or because I volume matched them with an instantaneous switcher?


I personally did A/B comparison of the SA-1 vs Drop THX 789. The sound signature is almost the same but the difference is in the micro dynamic and the way it influences the soundstage and separation of the instruments. You simply may not know what to listen for. You might pay attention to color or frequency spectrum and legitimately say there is no difference. Although, it still depends on the music material. Maybe you just listen to the music that is not presenting you audible changes. Alternatively, your headphones may not be wide and detailed enough in order to physically respond to these differences. As already said, this makes your shopping decisions easier. The whole chain should be commensurate with each other in terms of technicalities. Otherwise, the quality of the resulting sound will be determined by the bottleneck in your chain. Look for the bottleneck - the cheapest and/or less quality element in your whole chain. I didn't even mention your hearing abilities yet 

I'll give an example using optical lenses for cameras. The Drop THX is like a telephoto lens. And the SA-1 is more like a normal 50mm lens or even slightly towards a wide-angle. Though the primary object in the resulting photo might look absolutely the same, the background is different in the way it either closes in like a solid wall or backs up and separates in 3-dimensional space. This is the main difference between these amplifiers from my A/B experience.


----------



## ic257

hundreth said:


> I wish I had golden ears like yourself to hear all of these subtle differences between those amplifiers.
> 
> I volume match A/B tested my Singxer SA-1 against a $150 THX AAA One and they sounded absolutely identical. Before doing this, I experienced massive differences between them.
> 
> I do really like the Singxer amp for its power, build, and feature set. Though based on all the reports here I’d have expected it to sound very different from an op amp based linear amp.


Link to that switch box?


----------



## NascentAP

Alex May said:


> I personally did A/B comparison of the SA-1 vs Drop THX 789. The sound signature is almost the same but the difference is in the micro dynamic and the way it influences the soundstage and separation of the instruments. You simply may not know what to listen for. You might pay attention to color or frequency spectrum and legitimately say there is no difference. Although, it still depends on the music material. Maybe you just listen to the music that is not presenting you audible changes. *Alternatively, your headphones may not be wide and detailed enough in order to physically respond to these differences*. As already said, this makes your shopping decisions easier. The whole chain should be commensurate with each other in terms of technicalities. Otherwise, the quality of the resulting sound will be determined by the bottleneck in your chain. Look for the bottleneck - the cheapest and/or less quality element in your whole chain. I didn't even mention your hearing abilities yet
> 
> I'll give an example using optical lenses for cameras. The Drop THX is like a telephoto lens. And the SA-1 is more like a normal 50mm lens or even slightly towards a wide-angle. Though the primary object in the resulting photo might look absolutely the same, the background is different in the way it either closes in like a solid wall or backs up and separates in 3-dimensional space. This is the main difference between these amplifiers from my A/B experience.


I can relate. It was difficult to discern differences between SA-1 and A90 (which is similar to THX789 from what I understand) with something like Sundara and HD6xx, which are HPs that I started out with. It wasn't until Arya and He6V2 that I started to notice differences that are subtle but really changes the soundscape once you realize they are there. DACs also make a big difference in this regard, which was countercurrent to my own initial bias


----------



## hundreth

Alex May said:


> I personally did A/B comparison of the SA-1 vs Drop THX 789. The sound signature is almost the same but the difference is in the micro dynamic and the way it influences the soundstage and separation of the instruments. You simply may not know what to listen for. You might pay attention to color or frequency spectrum and legitimately say there is no difference. Although, it still depends on the music material. Maybe you just listen to the music that is not presenting you audible changes. Alternatively, your headphones may not be wide and detailed enough in order to physically respond to these differences. As already said, this makes your shopping decisions easier. The whole chain should be commensurate with each other in terms of technicalities. Otherwise, the quality of the resulting sound will be determined by the bottleneck in your chain. Look for the bottleneck - the cheapest and/or less quality element in your whole chain. I didn't even mention your hearing abilities yet
> 
> I'll give an example using optical lenses for cameras. The Drop THX is like a telephoto lens. And the SA-1 is more like a normal 50mm lens or even slightly towards a wide-angle. Though the primary object in the resulting photo might look absolutely the same, the background is different in the way it either closes in like a solid wall or backs up and separates in 3-dimensional space. This is the main difference between these amplifiers from my A/B experience.



Thanks for the detailed reply and explanation.

For added context, I was searching for those soundstage and depth related differences. I let my normal library of music play throughout an entire day switching back and forth. I was not using specific test tracks. 

Also, I did much of my testing with Focal Clears - which are much more resolving than the 6XX. Neither of them are super soundstage kings, so maybe that's a factor. I'm also running everything through a Motu M2, which is not an audiophile DAC, but very neutral and low distortion. I don't believe anything in my system is enough of an outlier to be an outright bottleneck, but I'm sure opinions differ.

Photography is one of my hobbies, and I can very much relate to the depth of field differences you're describing. The thing is, I can easily see the larger bokeh, blur, and facial distortion changes between focal points of lenses. 

I've been fascinated by the entire subject around well measuring solid state amps and how they sound. I tried getting the two most different sounding amps as described. One being lean, harsh, soulless, analytical (THX) and the other being soft, rolled off, smooth (Singxer). 

At the very least, I will say these claims are highly exaggerated. I find calling the THX amp soulless disingenuous to say the least and a disservice to many getting into this hobby and starting out with a quality product. These differences should be put into context, and hyperbolic terms like "soulless" are not helpful.


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## NascentAP

hundreth said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply and explanation.
> 
> For added context, I was searching for those soundstage and depth related differences. I let my normal library of music play throughout an entire day switching back and forth. I was not using specific test tracks.
> 
> ...


My bad for the interjection but this was not my impression. I've never listened to THX amps but A90 (which is also described as soulless and clinical) and SA-1 are more similar than different. I did A/B like the previous poster and my impression was that SA-1 adds a bit of warmth with less intense treble but the main difference was that the soundscape from SA-1 had contours whereas A90 was relatively flat if that makes any sense. This became more obvious once I moved onto R2R dac ie Ares II in which I felt like I was inside the soundscape with music/sound all around me. My prior dac E30+A90 combo presented music akin to a dome screen; the music sounded flat and projected onto a flat dome screen. Just sharing my experience and its cool if yours is different


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## jonathan c

NascentAP said:


> My bad for the interjection but this was not my impression. I've never listened to THX amps but A90 (which is also described as soulless and clinical) and SA-1 are more similar than different. I did A/B like the previous poster and my impression was that SA-1 adds a bit of warmth with less intense treble but the main difference was that the soundscape from SA-1 had contours whereas A90 was relatively flat if that makes any sense. This became more obvious once I moved onto R2R dac ie Ares II in which I felt like I was inside the soundscape with music/sound all around me. My prior dac E30+A90 combo presented music akin to a dome screen; the music sounded flat and projected onto a flat dome screen. Just sharing my experience and its cool if yours is different


Well said !


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