# Have money, need cable :-)



## vberch

I just purchased a Singlepower PPX3 Slam (will be used with RS-1 and K701) and need to purchase a decent cable to connect it to my source. In all honesty, I don't think my ears are trained enough to know the difference to justify spending a lot of money. All I need is a decent cable for as little money as I can get away with. 

 Your suggestions are greatly appreciated.


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## JohnFerrier

I've read good things about Nordost Valhalla.


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## hYdrociTy

Try Signal Cable interconnects. The ones with the Eichmann Bullet plugs are great value for the price!


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## threEchelon

Blue Jeans Cables


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## hYdrociTy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *threEchelon* 
_Blue Jeans Cables_

 

x2 if you want even more bang for the bux...


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## vberch

Although I think it would be an interesting task to listen to a $2,000 cable, I think my kids would object . They do want to eat sometimes.

 Can somebody suggest cables in:

 1. < $30
 2. < $50
 3. < $100

 I would really appreciate your help.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JohnFerrier* 
_I've read good things about Nordost Valhalla._


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## hYdrociTy

For under 30 bucks you might want to looks at the Blue Jeans Cables.

 The Signal Cable Analog Two starts at 50 bucks, but with the amazing Bullet Plugs are 75 dollars, which IMO is a very good under 100 USD option.

 Around 100(as low as 40 on ebay) dollars is the Zu Oxyfuel, which is looks very nice and boasts "100% solderless termination" and is definately a step up from the signal Analog Two.

 IMO the cable construction and termination with quality plugs matters much more than exotic metals used in the actual conductor.

 Your equipment looks respectable, and judging from that, I would go definately go for the oxyfuel, as the 1 meter is <50 dollars, which is a _very_ reasonable price for what you're getting.


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## PhilS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JohnFerrier* 
_I've read good things about Nordost Valhalla._

 

Ba-dum! JF will be appearing nightly folks, with an extra show on Sunday afternoon.


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## music_man

hmm. a $30 cable for a ppx3 slam? that's like putting 87 octane in a murcielago. lol.

 music_man


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## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_hmm. a $30 cable for a ppx3 slam? that's like putting 87 octane in a murcielago. lol.

 music_man_

 

I kind of agree, I'm not sure I'd use a cheapy $30 BJC interconnect with a $1k amp. I saw a BMC (Black Mountain Cable) solid silver interconnect terminated with WBT Midline RCA connectors go for under a hundred the other week on eBay. IMO it's better to buy cables used since they depreciate quite quickly. Another option would be to have one custom made by a DIY'er, or make on yourself. You can make yourself a pretty nice interconnect for $100.

 Edit: The Zu Oxyfuels aren't $100, Zu sells them through their eBay store new and they usually go for around $35, though I've seen them sell occasionally for as low as $15. Heartland cables is another manufacturer you might want to check into. They sell Eichman bullet plug terminated Belden interconnects for only $50.


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## vberch

Music_man, 

 I agree. I just wanted to see what's out there. What would you recommend under $100?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *music_man* 
_hmm. a $30 cable for a ppx3 slam? that's like putting 87 octane in a murcielago. lol.

 music_man_


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## music_man

i guess we could discuss why silver? i do not really like what silver does to the sound. as usual, ymmv.

 the intresting thing is a lot of people disagree with patrick82's posts as to how much a cable makes a difference. i think serious listeners could pick the copper and the silver cables though. many people do like silver however and the higher end cables tend to be silver. i still prefer very pure copper.

 very pure copper with good designs can be plenty expensive too. so i do not consider copper a lower end cable even though as a comodity silver is of course more expensive. look at the price of the cables though and the amount of silver in them. it is not the actual silver content that makes some cables $10,000.

 music_man


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## music_man

don't laugh. under $100 i found the ar for like $10 at bb to be really good. that was the s/pdif though. i don't know about their interconects.

 look at the construction of that ar cable. then wonder why some of the other ones are $90 more. same deal with the blue jeans.

 that is a problem because if shopped carefully there can be little difference between a $10,$30 and $100 cable. that $1,000 amp really needs at least a $200 cable imho. maybe a straightwire. 

 music_man


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## threEchelon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skyline889* 
_I kind of agree, I'm not sure I'd use a cheapy $30 BJC interconnect with a $1k amp._

 

I don't think that blue jeans cables should be described as cheapy. Welly Wu compared a BJC to a Cardas Reference Cable and found the differences to be minimal and nowhere worth the extra cost.


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## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *threEchelon* 
_I don't think that blue jeans cables should be described as cheapy. Welly Wu compared a BJC to a Cardas Reference Cable and found the differences to be minimal and nowhere worth the extra cost._

 

Well I wouldn't exactly classify Welly Wu's reviews as being remotely unbiased.


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## djbnh

For less than $100/pr - I don't have any recommendations. It also would be helpful to know what length cable you need, whether you want shielded or unshielded, etc. 

 Anyway, for less than $100/each (in no particular order): 
 1) VH Audio Pulsar @ $82.99 for 1/2 meter length, shipping extra; and 
 2) Gregg Straley's Reality Cable ICs (the Original version, which comes in "tube" or "solid state" versions) @ $150.00 for a 3 foot pair, shipping included. Both 1) and 2) are cryoed. Furthermore, Gregg Straley's cables are pre-cooked for 15 days, and according to his web site only need 48 hours of burn-in on your system.

Other Considerations
Contact Klaus Bunge of Odyssey Audio (call him at (317) 299-5578 - don't even consider e-mailing the man) to see if he's got any B-stock or returned Groneberg cables that might fit the bill.

Check The Trading Post at AC for 2nd hand ICs for far less than buying new. Ditto for AudioGon.

Myo of RnB Audio is currently backed up with projects. However, once that backlog clears and he reappears on Head-Fi, you could contact him about making you a pair of ICs. (Do a forum search on "RnB180" for contact information.)
Best of luck with your quest.


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## hYdrociTy

If the zu oxyfuel could be had for blue jeans price on ebay then I wouldnt hesitate to get em. They are no frills, dont use exotic stuff and are well made with no solder. Fits the bill nicely. Dont let cost be a big factor. Even if your gear cost more than a car there are still reasons not to get a 3000 dollar cable to "match" them up.

 Yea bill gates has billions and his house is on a mountain. I dont see him with any rolex watches.. Its silly to assume that if your amp and phones are expensive than you have to get an expensive cable. It is not right to compare it like civic vs lambo. The difference is much less. But I dont recommend stock cables and thats a given. Doesnt me I endorse exotics either. Cables need to be well build and well priced.
 Most cables under 100 dollars are the best values. If I were you I would contact the DIYers at that particular forum here and have them make a good one. They can probably whip up some nice quality stuff out of top of the line parts for a major fraction off, and you would be supporting their work!

 Im pretty sure the cardas reference owns blue jeans but with those benjamins in my pocket I can say that money saved owns a whole lot more.


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## mrarroyo

I have been using Blue Jean Cable's offering for a while and I am very happy. If you do not like them you can always sell them or use them on a secondary system.


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## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hYdrociTy* 
_If the zu oxyfuel could be had for blue jeans price on ebay then I wouldnt hesitate to get em. They are no frills, dont use exotic stuff and are well made with no solder. Fits the bill nicely. Dont let cost be a big factor. Even if your gear cost more than a car there are still reasons not to get a 3000 dollar cable to "match" them up.

 Yea bill gates has billions and his house is on a mountain. I dont see him with any rolex watches.. Its silly to assume that if your amp and phones are expensive than you have to get an expensive cable. It is not right to compare it like civic vs lambo. The difference is much less. But I dont recommend stock cables and thats a given. Doesnt me I endorse exotics either. Cables need to be well build and well priced.
 Most cables under 100 dollars are the best values. If I were you I would contact the DIYers at that particular forum here and have them make a good one. They can probably whip up some nice quality stuff out of top of the line parts for a major fraction off, and you would be supporting their work!

 Im pretty sure the cardas reference owns blue jeans but with those benjamins in my pocket I can say that money saved owns a whole lot more._

 

I hadn't meant to say that cables should be decided on by price. It's just that imo and ime, the $150-200 (Used) mark comprises cables that have the best price to performance ratio for interconnects however, the 
 $50-100 (Used) mark also includes some excellent sounding cables. Personally I just don't care for BJC, if I wanted a no frills simplisitic cable, I'd just make one myself however, if it works for you, that's all that matters.


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## Asr

It's been said on Head-Fi before that you should spend no more than 20% of your system's value on cables, and I agree. And you need to *really* hone your hearing and train your ears to be able to tell differences between different cables of the same material (as in, between 2 different silver cables, or 2 different copper cables). Don't listen to these guys that say you need to spend more than $100 for an IC to use with your PPX3. If you had an amp that was $2K maybe, you should get a better cable, but the affordable ones already mentioned are more than enough for the job, especially if your ears aren't trained.


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## hYdrociTy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skyline889* 
_I hadn't meant to say that cables should be decided on by price. It's just that imo and ime, the $150-200 (Used) mark comprises cables that have the best price to performance ratio for interconnects however, the 
 $50-100 (Used) mark also includes some excellent sounding cables. Personally I just don't care for BJC, if I wanted a no frills simplisitic cable, I'd just make one myself however, if it works for you, that's all that matters._

 


 Thats right. I think its best to make cables yourself, as theres (relatively) not much involved (ducks). You can use what you like. Make it as asthetically pleasing as you want. I think the cables I made give me more joy in the fact that its my hard work and my own touch added to the music. Probably plecebo but then diy is still nice and worth the couple of hours of time spent.


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## Patrick82

If you become a skeptic you will save a lot of money by buying Radio Shack.

 If you become a believer you will get great sound, placebo or not.


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## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* 
_I have been using Blue Jean Cable's offering for a while and I am very happy. If you do not like them you can always sell them or use them on a secondary system._

 

Or better, just return them for a full refund, and no questions asked...I have returned a few of them after I minimized my system, and had no use for them, so why keeping them if I was not going to use them...

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skyline889* 
_Well I wouldn't exactly classify Welly Wu's reviews as being remotely unbiased._

 

Really? That is funny, so he own both cables (same applies to all his gear reviewed BTW) tried them, and post the reviews of both of them. BTW he is not selling any of the two, so he is keeping both, and HAD THE BALLS to admit that he was fooling himself, and that he was wasting his money in a lot of stuff that he had paid for, that at the end, just offer minimal differences, and even posted the numbers...Sorry but if this is not an unbiased review, which is? The ones who are always praising what they got, and trying to justify what they have invested that can not return, to sell it later on here......gimme a break!!!!

 Your choice of using them, or not, is a personal decision at the end, of course, but one thing is sure, after trying them, unless I have a half a million setup, any other cash will go to other parts of the system, that will offer more benefits than any other IC over the Blue Jeans...or some more music...

 The Blue Jeans cables offer an unbeatable performance for the price, and for many times as much, just try them and you will see, just because they are cheap, and the guys are honest, and post what they do, and what materials they use, does not make them "cheapy sounding" cables....OTOH other manufacturers will mask the materials and methods they use, with phrases like "proprietary materials", "metal alloys", "geometries", "special dielectrics", etc...that IMO are a bunch of BS with no scientific basis or evidence, to sustain these theories, behind them at all, and not even a single number in a paper...and in some cases what they use is indeed the same Belden cables...


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## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* 
_Really? That is funny, so he own both cables (same applies to all his gear reviewed BTW) tried them, and post the reviews of both of them. BTW he is not selling any of the two, so he is keeping both, and HAD THE BALLS to admit that he was fooling himself, and that he was wasting his money in a lot of stuff that he had paid for, that at the end, just offer minimal differences, and even posted the numbers...Sorry but if this is not an unbiased review, which is? The ones who are always praising what they got, and trying to justify what they have invested that can not return, to sell it later on here......gimme a break!!!!

 Your choice of using them, or not, is a personal decision at the end, of course, but one thing is sure, after trying them, unless I have a half a million setup, any other cash will go to other parts of the system, that will offer more benefits than any other IC over the Blue Jeans...or some more music...

 The Blue Jeans cables offer an unbeatable performance for the price, and for many times as much, just try them and you will see, just because they are cheap, and the guys are honest, and post what they do, and what materials they use, does not make them "cheapy sounding" cables....OTOH other manufacturers will mask the materials and methods they use, with phrases like "proprietary materials", "metal alloys", "geometries", "special dielectrics", etc...that IMO are a bunch of BS with no scientific basis or evidence, to sustain these theories, behind them at all, and not even a single number in a paper...and in some cases what they use is indeed the same Belden cables..._

 

Remotely unbiased might have been too strong of a term however, I found it hard to believe that Welly heard little to no difference between the Cardas Golden Reference and the Blue Jeans Cable/Volex interconnects, but heard a _huge_ difference between the stock HD650 cable and the SAA Equinox cable, it seemed a bit contradictory to me. 

 When I had the HD650 I also owned a Zu Mobius cable and A/B'd between the Zu and the stock HD650. I found that the differences were quite noticeable, with increased detail, clarity and even a mild harshness that overwhelmed my old preferences however, they were not _that_ much more noticeable than the difference between interconnects I had A/B'd at the time (Nordost Solar Wind vs Cardas Crosslink, both around $100 cables). For one to barely be able to distinguish between a pair of interconnects, yet hear a "wow"ing difference between headphone cables, seems like a conundrum imo.

 Again I'd like to state that I don't look down on people who use BJC, in fact I think that would be pretty child-like, a "my cables are better than yours" thing, however they are "cheapy" cables in a sense. Not sound quality wise which is the most important to most, but imo they both look and feel cheap and well, they are cheap. 

 For me at least, I need a cable that both looks great and sounds good, it's not because I care what other people think of them, I don't, it's because I am extremely ocd and everytime I see a cheap cable in my system or any system, it drives me bonkers. I'll tear an interconnect or cable apart, resheath it, and reterminate it just so that it looks better to me. I can see how this might not be important to a lot of people 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, however, aesthetics are equally important to me as performance.

 BJC does make good sounding interconnects, when I first joined I bought a pair from them however, "big name" and boutique company cables can be had on eBay and A'gon for very little as well, and to me offer a better overall value. Heartland cables, which I mentioned earlier, sells a belden interconnect for not much more than what the connectors are worth, Zu sells cables for almost a third what their retail prices are, killer deals and better deals at least imo, than BJC can be found on the used market or eBay, I just thought that should be known. If you don't agree and think that BJC offers the best value, I'm not contradicting you, in fact how can I? Sound quality is all subjective. I apologize if my earlier posts didn't make my intentions clear.


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## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skyline889* 
_Remotely unbiased might have been too strong of a term however, I found it hard to believe that Welly heard little to no difference between the Cardas Golden Reference and the Blue Jeans Cable/Volex interconnects, but heard a huge difference between the stock HD650 cable and the SAA Equinox cable, it seemed a bit contradictory to me. 

 When I had the HD650 I also owned a Zu Mobius cable and A/B'd between the Zu and the stock HD650. I found that the differences were quite noticeable, with increased detail, clarity and even a mild harshness that overwhelmed my old preferences however, they were not that much more noticeable than the difference between interconnects I had A/B'd at the time (Nordost Solar Wind vs Cardas Crosslink, both around $100 cables). For one to barely be able to distinguish between a pair of interconnects, yet hear a "wow"ing difference between headphone cables, seems like a conundrum imo._

 

Well maybe the Blue Jeans are better than the stock Senn cable, that is why the differences are bigger..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 While I had the HD600 I also owned the Cardas, and honestly the call differences were not that big, and the called improvements, are IMO a different flavor, to the point that I'm one of the very few that preffer the stock to it...IMO one of the reasons people change the cable in the Senns, is because they are very easy to remove, but the same people if they need to pay for someone to do it, and mod the headphones, will hesitate in doing so...

 I have also a far better than the Cardas cable in my PROline 2500, and the differences are not that big neither, (if any)...


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## hYdrociTy

This is turning into a do cables make a difference thread...

 Lets get back to recommending some nice cables for the op shall we? if he hears any more of this hes gonna become a victim of this vicious cycle and forced to choose a side.

 Its nice to just have the best of both worlds. A decent cable that doesnt fubar the signal. No extremes- radioshack vs some godly brand. Just get something in between, since its the BAD cables that make the difference so make sure you dont get a bad cable...eg the all-plastic glued nickle + 5 other element plated pos red/white things forged with blackened solder.


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## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skyline889* 
_Again I'd like to state that I don't look down on people who use BJC, in fact I think that would be pretty child-like, a "my cables are better than yours" thing, however they are "cheapy" cables in a sense. Not sound quality wise which is the most important to most, but imo they both look and feel cheap and well, they are cheap. 

 For me at least, I need a cable that both looks great and sounds good, it's not because I care what other people think of them, I don't, it's because I am extremely ocd and everytime I see a cheap cable in my system or any system, it drives me bonkers. I'll tear an interconnect or cable apart, resheath it, and reterminate it just so that it looks better to me. I can see how this might not be important to a lot of people 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, however, aesthetics are equally important to me as performance._

 

Well I do not agree in the the Blue Jeans cables sound cheap, the recording studios, all of them, use or Canare, or Belden, so in other words they are professional quality and meet all the standards for professional use, you are hearing them all over the recordings, and not all of them can be wrong, if they were that bad, Cardas, Nordost or any other will be the standard instead, and please don't tell me about cost, as that will be a one time investment for the record company, that will last a lifetime in many cases as some of them offer lifetime warranty....but they simply do not beleive in that as many other people do not...

 BTW the look is not that bad neither, and in case it was, what is the relevance of that, if they will be behind the gear, and you will not see them. Also do you really consider that a tube amp with these horrible tubes exposed looks cool, and is nice to look, or a Grado headphone, or the K-1000, or the CD3K, IMO they look like museum pieces from the last century!!!


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## applebook

I think that this needs to be considered above anything else, that the Sennheiser cables were designed specifically for a a series of headphones, while the Cardas (and 99% of other interconnects) are made as general purpose for all products, so the perceived quality of difference of an interconnect will vary from one model to the next as much as it will be received differently among different ears.


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## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* 
_Well I do not agree in the the Blue Jeans cables sound cheap, the recording studios, all of them, use or Canare, or Belden, so in other words they are professional quality and meet all the standards for professional use, you are hearing them all over the recordings, and not all of them can be wrong, if they were that bad, Cardas, Nordost or any other will be the standard instead, and please don't tell me about cost, as that will be a one time investment for the record company, that will last a lifetime in many cases as some of them offer lifetime warranty....but they simply do not beleive in that as many other people do not...

 BTW the look is not that bad neither, and in case it was, what is the relevance of that, if they will be behind the gear, and you will not see them. Also do you really consider that a tube amp with these horrible tubes exposed looks cool, and is nice to look, or a Grado headphone, or the K-1000, or the CD3K, IMO they look like museum pieces from the last century!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








_

 

Where did I state they sounded cheap. In my argument that _you_ just quoted, it specifically states _not_ SQ wise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 You seem to just want to argue with me for the sake of arguing.

 I do find the Grado heapdhones mildly atractive, especially the RS series and also Grado's metal cans. I also find many tube amps quite attractive. I find my Bloodwood CD3ks quite attractive too. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it seems to me that you're the one telling me how I should feel about certain products, not the other way around. I'm not Patrick82 nor as I have already stated a Boutique or brand name cable enthusiast, it's just that I have found, and I'll say for the thousandth time IN MY EXPERIENCE AND IN MY OPINION, generally, used cables in the $100-200 range have yielded the best synergy and most noticeable increase in performance with the systems I have tried. So why don't we stop the bickering and stop the bantering and get back on topic okay?


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## Sovkiller

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *skyline889* 
_Where did I state they sounded cheap. In my argument that you just quoted, it specifically states not SQ wise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 You seem to just want to argue with me for the sake of arguing.

 I do find the Grado heapdhones mildly atractive, especially the RS series and also Grado's metal cans. I also find many tube amps quite attractive. I find my Bloodwood CD3ks quite attractive too. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it seems to me that you're the one telling me how I should feel about certain products, not the other way around. I'm not Patrick82 nor as I have already stated a Boutique or brand name cable enthusiast, it's just that I have found, and I'll say for the thousandth time IN MY EXPERIENCE AND IN MY OPINION, generally, used cables in the $100-200 range have yielded the best synergy and most noticeable increase in performance with the systems I have tried._

 

Sorry, now I realize that it was confusing the way I posted, do not misunderstood me, it was just a comment without the intention of bothering you. I apologize if I make you feel attacked, but as I know for sure that they do not sound cheap, just state that as a side info, but not because of your post, you clearly state the opposite...Sorry...but also I feel that they do not look nor feel cheap neither... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	










 And it is true that they are just that, plain simple cables, not very attractive, but not ugly netiher, with all what a cable need to sound good, a good plug, good insulation, very good joint, and very very good manufacture, you have also the option of insert them in sleeves that will make them look better, at the expense of flexibility....

 Please, no need to get rude, or become this thread in a pissing match, as you stated, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but just for the records I do found the Grados completelly unatractive, the tube amps horrible, unless they hide the tubes inside the case, and the CD3K which I love is not very attractive neither, now if you went the woody way, those will be a lot more attractive than the grey cups in mine for sure...And I'm not telling you the way you have to feel about those products, I'm just stating mine...and of course you can feel about them the way you please, that will be your personal opinion as you stated... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peace!!!


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## skyline889

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Sovkiller* 
_Sorry, now I realize that it was confusing the way I posted, do not misunderstood me, it was just a comment without the intention of bothering you. I apologize if I make you feel attacked, but as I know for sure that they do not sound cheap, just state that as a side info, but not because of your post, you clearly state the opposite...Sorry...but also I feel that they do not look nor feel cheap neither... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











 And it is true that they are just that, plain simple cables, not very attractive, but not ugly netiher, with all what a cable need to sound good, a good plug, good insulation, very good joint, and very very good manufacture, you have also the option of insert them in sleeves that will make them look better, at the expense of flexibility....

 Please, no need to get rude, or become this thread in a pissing match, as you stated, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but just for the records I do found the Grados completelly unatractive, the tube amps horrible, unless they hide the tubes inside the case, and the CD3K which I love is not very attractive neither, now if you went the woody way, those will be a lot more attractive than the grey cups in mine for sure...And I'm not telling you the way you have to feel about those products, I'm just stating mine...and of course you can feel about them the way you please, that will be your personal opinion as you stated... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Peace!!!_

 

No problem man, you have some really nice gear, and if you find the BJC interconnects to work best for you I have no problem with that. Just didn't to get into another cable argument, as they tend to get fiesty rather quickly. 

 Aloha, David


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## Boltman

I've seen a few other posters around here with some X2 also. About $40 for 30 feet. Then double up the run for better bass. Matching RCA's would be Sidewinder or Copperhead. The combo sounds nice.


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## jrosenth

I won't say Blue Jeans sound cheap - but even with a vintage Kyocera CD player, a Regar Ear and a Senn 580, I found real improvements with the Zu oxyfuel over them.

 Anyway, and this is based on some revelations with speaker cables, namely that some Radio Shack magnet wire simply killed a variety of much more expensive speaker cables with some full range speakers 

 - but maybe you might want to at least try making (or having made) some magnet wire ICs - they have been written up in a variety of online magazines and boards and are very cheap to make. 

 I'm using a digital in otherwise I seriously would have given this a shot. There are some guys on the audio boards who absolutely swear by them.


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