# Germanium's Sound blaster ZXR mod thread



## germanium

.
  


  

  
  
  
 The caps in the red box need to be shorted underneath the board. This is for the analog stereo output section of the card
  
 The caps in the green box need to be bypassed underneath with two 12uf metalized film caps each.
  
 The caps in the purple need to be bypassed with one 12uf metalized film cap each.
  
 The caps in the blue box are for the surround sound analog output section. These only need to be shorted if you are using 5.1 speakers with analog input.
  
 This mod requires a total of 7-12uf capacitors
  
 That is the extent of my mods to this card at this point. 
  
 The sound coming from this card is to die for it is so much better than when fresh out of the box.
  
 Everything has much higher resolution. Bass though just as present is more detailed & takes it's proper place behind the midrange & still adding tremendous foundation to the music. Treble is massively more detailed yet easier on the ears as well. This is not to say the treble lacks dynamics as even the dynamics are improved as well. Instrument such as bell & triangles have a piercing but sweet quality. By piercing I mean that it projects it's sound above other instruments, not that it sounds harsh as it doesn't.
  
 Saving the best for last, The midrange is what tube lovers love about tubes. Well you tube lovers can put away your tube amps now as this card has that type of midrange in spades with out all the fuss rebiasing your tubes every time you listen to your music, not that all tube amp need constant rebiasing but many higher end tube amps do. Just joking about putting away your tube amp really though. It's just this card takes on the midrange in such an excellent fashion yet retains all the best attributes of transistor amps. I.E. tight extended bass & extended treble but improving on the treble by giving it the sweetness & detail of the finest tube amps & yes I have heard some of the finest in the world tubes amps as one of the was built by a friend of mine that now deseased but in his heyday was lead audio engineer for A&M records as well as Disney studios. These were true studio grade amps. Before he died he sold the design which some parts were cheapened & turned into a consumer grade amp & they are charging 40,000 dollars for. Only 5 of the original amp were built before he became too sick to continue. He was only charging $7,000 for a 50 watt version & $3500 for the 25watt version amp that had even better parts & had an output transformer that was truly a design that was never seen outside of the studio. Instead of having the standard 4, 8, & 16 ohm taps found on most output transformers  the winding of the transformer were sent out to a jones socket where the windings were reconfigured for each impedance tap inside the jones plug. This allowed him to double up the windings so they ran in parallel for the 4 ohm tap or run them in series for the 16ohm tap. Note he was not making a killing on these amps as the parts cost for the 25 watt version came to $2500.
  
 These picture I'm posting now are posted with permission of NCSUZoSo.
  
 
  

  
  
  
  
 He did a nice job on his mod. Better looking than mine.


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## atoff

Do you happen to know what needs to be done to the lowly Z?


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## germanium

atoff said:


> Do you happen to know what needs to be done to the lowly Z?


 

 You can do the same type of mods It's just I don't have one to point to which caps need to bypassed or shorted.


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## NoOneLt

Nice, seems like i also will do this mod in near future, found these caps, will use 10uF, only thing i'll try to find some semi-pro to do soldering, as i'am afraid of my hands 
  
@germanium How do You think, what is the smallest capacity that is still usefull in this mod? Caps i found is 23mm diameter, and i'am afraid they could not fit, so then only option is to get even smaller. What is the smallest capacity You believe still do the job right?


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## germanium

noonelt said:


> Nice, seems like i also will do this mod in near future, found these caps, will use 10uF, only thing i'll try to find some semi-pro to do soldering, as i'am afraid of my hands
> 
> @germanium How do You think, what is the smallest capacity that is still usefull in this mod? Caps i found is 23mm diameter, and i'am afraid they could not fit, so then only option is to get even smaller. What is the smallest capacity You believe still do the job right?


 
 5 uf each would probably work just fine but that is about as small as I would go & still have a nice consistent sound signature.


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## NoOneLt

Wanted to add schematics of what should be done, colors is the same as in first picture.

 UPDATED to the latest version germanium posted, not to confuse people who see different pic.
  
If i brake any forum rule by posting image with logo on it please inform, this is not advertisement, google helped to find HQ image, and i didn't wan't to hide logo.


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## germanium

I would like to mention that D.C. offset must always be checked at the output before connecting to anything in order to make sure there is no bad connections on the shorted caps as if you have a bad connection on one leg you will have excessive d.c. offset that could damage anything it is connected to. D.C. offset should be less than 5mv when properly done. if there is a bad connection there will be about 2.5 volts. At that voltage you could see the hazard posed not checking.


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## germanium

Didn't mean to scare anyone off by this warning. It's just something that needs to be checked is all. Sound is wonderful when completed properly. I have yet to have a bad connection so it's not that hard to do this mod.


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## germanium

Man, have I been doing a lot of listening since my modifications were complete. I like what I'm hearing so far. The potential of this card is incredible sonically at least for music I have listened to my setup almost all weekend The incredible sound of this card really draws you into the music & you can clearly hear just about everything in the mix. Much better than I could hear stock.


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## NoOneLt

Huston, i have a problem  The thing is that my CPU cooler leaves me very little space for modding (when ZxR is in PCI-E X1_1 slot). Imagine that free space where i can place caps starts after red line, until then there is CPU cooler and only few mm behind board. GPU blocks other PCI-E X1 slots, actually block only second, but leaves no place behind 3 one. So several solutions i can think of:
  
 1. Keep ZxR in PCI-E X1_1 (look MoBo picture) and design caps mod like in picture below, what i worry about that there is need in extending caps legs with some wires, and i afraid it will ruin the mod idea, there will appear interference or other electronic staff i have no idea about ) What do you think about it?

 2. Get PCI-E cable extension, and just place ZxR somewhere.. Not such good idea as then i can not get to connections so easily. Also it costs.
 3. Place my card in PCI-E X8 slot, but then i loose my PCI-E X16 full speed, it becames PCI-E X8, it is not a big lost i believe, as benchmark shows only small lost of of VGA performance. Easiest solution, but what if i would like to go SLI someday, who knows 
  
 Still i believe 1 solutions is the "neatest" one, because it is most universal one, and without compromises. But what will i loose by prolonging caps legs?
  
 Thanks in advance!
  
 My MoBo: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3853#bios


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## germanium

noonelt said:


> Huston, i have a problem  The thing is that my CPU cooler leaves me very little space for modding (when ZxR is in PCI-E X1_1 slot). Imagine that free space where i can place caps starts after red line, until then there is CPU cooler and only few mm behind board. GPU blocks other PCI-E X1 slots, actually block only second, but leaves no place behind 3 one. So several solutions i can think of:
> 
> 1. Keep ZxR in PCI-E X1_1 (look MoBo picture) and design caps mod like in picture below, what i worry about that there is need in extending caps legs with some wires, and i afraid it will ruin the mod idea, there will appear interference or other electronic staff i have no idea about ) What do you think about it?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  Yes, Houston we do have a problem. It does look like your placement will solve the problem though. Lead length shouldn't be a huge problem. Try to keep the voltage input side as short as possible & attached to the inner foil side ( side the writing begins on cap & the ground attached to the outer foil which is the tail end of writing). You can attach the ground side to an alternate ground site such as near the I/O panel of the card . That is how I did the Titanium HD card & it works fine.


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## verde57

An XO mod like on the STX is feasible here?


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## germanium

verde57 said:


> An XO mod like on the STX is feasible here?


 

  It may be feasible but then again it may be pointless. This card already seems to have better sound without changing the XO. there may be a circuit to remove jitter already on the board inside that big chip next to it. this card shows a lot of potential already by sounding better than the STX as much as I can remember it sounding anyway.


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## germanium

I just had a friend from where I work over to my place yesterday & listened to my setup. You should have seen the look on his face which emerged at the very first note played. His lower jaw dropped down almost to his chest & said this is good. He was shocked how good it sounds. I played several cuts from different albums & he remained very impressed the whole time including some very well recorded live stuff from the Allman Brothers band Live At the Phillmore East. His comments were about how clear everything was yet there was a natural warmth to the sound as well, never any congestion at all.


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## NCSUZoSo

Source for affordable caps:
  
 ERSE PEx 12uF 250V: http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/PEx250v/12uF-250-volt-Metallized-Polyester-Mylar-Film-Capacitor *($2.97/unit = $20.79 (For 5.1))*
 ERSE PulseX 12uF 250V: http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/PulseX250v/MPX25-03-12-00   (*$4.57/unit = $31.99 (For 5.1)*)
  
 The other good thing about ERSE Audio is the shipping rates in the US are very low, my cost was two dollars and some change to have 6 *7* capacitors sent to my house for the 5.1 mod. 
  
  
 *EDIT*: It should be 7 caps, not 6.  This was an error that Germanium caught after I had done my mod.  All other posts were corrected to reflect this, but I forgot about this one.  Sorry to anyone who purchased 6 and is one short.  I actually have 3 spare PulseX Caps if someone did buy 6 instead of 7 please contact me through a PM.


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## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> Source for affordable caps:
> 
> ERSE PEx 12uF 250V: http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/PEx250v/12uF-250-volt-Metallized-Polyester-Mylar-Film-Capacitor *($2.97/unit = $17.82 (For 5.1))*
> ERSE PulseX 12uF 250V: http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/PulseX250v/MPX25-03-12-00   (*$4.57/unit = $27.42 (For 5.1)*)
> ...




That sounds great!!!


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## NCSUZoSo

I thought you might like your own picture of the mod in the mod thread, lol.
  
 I enhanced it so you can see more detail at the traces and solder points on the PCB.


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## germanium

People will probably mention about the long leads of the bypass capacitors I'm using & some people might even get rather bent out of shape about that issue. I have not had any excess noise issues & cards that I have modified in the past in same way have measured at least as well as stock if not even better noise wise with distortion within reasonable expected deviation one would expect from a stock card  with an even cleaner profile as in fewer spurae that go above the base noise profile.
  
 I believe the reason for this is that these metalized film caps are significantly high quality with a much higher resonance frequency & much lower ESR over a broad frequency range thus any noise picked up by the longer leads is countered by the improved ability to shunt that noise to ground. Even when you consider the long leads the overall performance is still far above what an electrolytic can offer. All the caps I used are on the power supply  side & not used for coupling & as such will not add noise to the signal path & actually will probably offer better performance in reducing noise than the short lead electrolytic would be able to offer.
  
 The other aspect is that these caps offer better audio performance when used in the power supply as the power supply in transistor gear is typically in the direct signal path so you not only get better RF noise rejection but better offer better audio performance from the amplifier as you can use sufficiently large caps to assist the lower grade electrolytic's in all but the lowest audio frequencies.


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## NCSUZoSo

Look at what showed up in the mail today


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## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> Look at what showed up in the mail today


 
  
 Glad you got them.
  
 Let me know how it goes
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


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## NCSUZoSo

Germanium, if you aren't using the headphone amp section of the card at all, do you need to worry with the green boxed caps?


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## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> Germanium, if you aren't using the headphone amp section of the card at all, do you need to worry with the green boxed caps?


 
 The green box caps supply power to the opamps as well so yes bypass them with metalized films you have.


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## NCSUZoSo

I should be doing this mod either today or tomorrow.  Out of curiosity, what did yall use to short each cap with?  I figure just cut lead ends to size off some spare resistors and solder each end.  I do have a conductive ink pen (you mask off the path between the two points with tape and draw across it), but I really prefer hard connections.


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## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> I should be doing this mod either today or tomorrow.  Out of curiosity, what did yall use to short each cap with?  I figure just cut lead ends to size off some spare resistors and solder each end.  I do have a conductive ink pen (you mask off the path between the two points with tape and draw across it), but I really prefer hard connections.




I used bare copper 30 gage wire & soldered them in place with soldering iron & lead free solder.


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## NCSUZoSo

I'll have pictures up by tonight (10PM EST) of the mod done in detail.


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## NCSUZoSo

Ok so here is my guide on how to do this with pictures:
  
  
 1) Things Needed (for my way)
  
 Soldering Iron and Solder
 Extra Resistors/Capacitors/LED (for cutting leads to size for shorts)
 7 Metal Film Capacitors (Here are the ones I used, 12uF 250V, I would have gotten lower voltage but it wasn't available)
 Solid Copper Core Wire
 Shrink Wrap
 Hot Glue Gun and Glue
  
  
 2) First Step
  
 The first step is to cut a lead off one of your spare resistors or whatever you have (you can buy a 5 pack at Radio Shack for like $3) to the size of the distance between the capacitor you are shorting and then you basically do this 11 more times (12 total).  I used NoOneLt's diagram:
  

  
  
  
 You can see here how my shorts match the diagram exactly (if you don't know what a short is then you shouldn't be doing this mod).
  
 Basically you just put one of those lead pieces you cut in the position to solder and get one side soldered and then solder the other, although it can be tricky with pieces of metal that small.  If you put too much heat the solder will melt on both ends.
  
  

  
 3) Now comes the tricky part that can be modified based on your PC and the capacitors you bought.  This is the arrangement I went with.  You can see the use of shrink wrap and hot glue.  I had to use the solid core copper wire to bridge the distance between back of the capacitor and solder point.  I'm sure I will make this more detailed as questions come in.
  

  
 Each capacitor is hot glued on the connection end where they are joined (on the doubles) and also underneath to secure them to the board
  
  
 You can see in the next picture the type of spacing I have using the Thermaltake Water2.0 Pro and if you have some of the big air coolers, you should have close to the same since my tubes coming out are at the same spot a heat sink would be normally.
  
  
 (please excuse dust in next picture)
  

  
  
 Any questions, feel free to ask.


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## germanium

Good job. How does it sound to you??


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## NCSUZoSo

I only had about 30 minutes before I had to switch over to my Aune T1 (noise issues where I live), so I can't really make a judgement yet.  The one thing I did notice right off the bat was a much more pronounced mid range.
  
  
 BTW here is what my opamp setup looks like (see sig for details) before I put the caps on the back and made it difficult to remove the cover, since I never took a picture after swapping out my MUSES 01


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## germanium

Yes more pronounced midrange & treble is indeed a characteristic of the modification, however a frequency sweep will not reveal any of that type of change. In fact you will see flatter response at the bottom end due To The direct coupling Of the I/V to buffer amp stage. It is like it is fleshing out the harmonic structure of the music better than before the modification.


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## NCSUZoSo

I've got about 5 hours on it now and after adjusting my EQ curve there is clarity there that didn't exist before. BTW, if you want to use any of my pics in your OP to show users what it looks like, that is fine.


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## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> I've got about 5 hours on it now and after adjusting my EQ curve there is clarity there that didn't exist before. BTW, if you want to use any of my pics in your OP to show users what it looks like, that is fine.




In what ways did you adjust the EQ?


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## NCSUZoSo




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## germanium

Looks like you brought them down closer to level & you still getting more detail than before from what you were saying particularly in the presence region.


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## NCSUZoSo

Yea that is about what I saw between them too, like I said before, feel free to use any pictures I have posted in the original post you made.


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## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> Yea that is about what I saw between them too, like I said before, feel free to use any pictures I have posted in the original post you made.


 
 You may want to try headphones as well now & compare to your tube DAC/Amp. Just curious if my discription of have a tube like sound is in fact true. I have listened to a tube preamp some years back that used the 6922 tube you are using & it seemed to have a somewhat bright & very open sound as well.


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## NCSUZoSo

Wow...  With headphones hooked up, this almost rivals my Aune T1 w/ Siemens 6992...   Thanks for the tip.
  
  
 Is there anything else we can do to these cards that we haven't already done (DC Coupled Buffer + Opamp Upgrade)?  lol


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## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> Wow...  With headphones hooked up, this almost rivals my Aune T1 w/ Siemens 6992...   Thanks for the tip.
> 
> 
> Is there anything else we can do to these cards that we haven't already done (DC Coupled Buffer + Opamp Upgrade)?  lol


 
 output is already D.C. coupled. You have already done an opamp upgrade. I personally am running stock opamps & it sounds great.


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## germanium

NCSUZoSo
  
 Just checking in with you to see what your opinion is now that you had more time to listen to it.


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## NCSUZoSo

Well personally I am a classic rock guy, but playing even just these two songs in 48khz/24bit (FLAC) makes me a believer that the mod is worth (worth, if you have the money/experience) doing:
  
 http://youtu.be/zSif77IVQdY
  
 and
  
 http://youtu.be/g93mz_eZ5N4
  
 I have been going through some medical problems, so I haven't had quite as much time as you think.  I have however listened to multiple Blu-Ray concerts/movies (Saving Private Ryan, Gimme Shelter, Crossroads Guitar Festival 2013, Joe Bonamassa - An Acoustic Evening at the Vienna Opera House (I actually have heard that show Bonamassa show in person), etc).
  
 I think this mod should be left to people like yourself and I, because you can get similar quality gains with changing the opamps.  It is different, but the amount of actual change is about equal.  I would say to anyone not comfortable taking a soldering iron to perfectly good hardware to look into the Opamp Thread.
  
 Not saying anything bad about this mod in terms of sound quality improvement, but the difficulty is at least equal to hardware volt-modding a GPU with a potentiometer due to all the soldering.  Not to mention we are dealing with a gloss PCB on the ZXR, so if you don't have a temperature controlled station, there is a good chance you will ruin the gloss in places (no biggie, but it's just what happens).
  
 If I had to describe the sound you would have to be a guitar player to understand probably, it is basically giving you more of an analog sound like you get from analog guitar effect pedals vs. digital.


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## germanium

I can relate to medical issues as I have some well that are very painful & some nights I can't sleep at all due to the pain. Given I drive truck for a living that is not good at all. 

On my system at home I have virtually everything modified in like manner & as such performs at a very high level.


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## NCSUZoSo

Germanium did you look at what I changed on the circuit diagram on page 2 that I assumed was an error?  Check the original picture with the one I posted, the green caps, which one is correct.
  
  
 Original Post Diagram by NoOneLt:
  

  
  
  
 BTW, which ever one is correct, it should be in the OP.


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## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> Germanium did you look at what I changed on the circuit diagram on page 2 that I assumed was an error?  Check the original picture with the one I posted, the green caps, which one is correct.
> 
> 
> Original Post Diagram by NoOneLt:
> ...




Top picture is correct. Looks like you actually did the job. Correctly thought. If it was done incorrectly as in the second picture the power supply would be shorted out & you would have a dead card & possibly dead computer so I would go back & change your picture so others don't mistakenly use it & damage their card or computer.


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## NCSUZoSo

Mine is actually wired up exactly like I have it shown, I guess I'll correct that, lol.
  
  
 So you are supposed to be using a jumper to whatever pin that is? 5?
  
  
 In your own picture I don't see that connection made.


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## germanium

NCSBZ OSO call me . My number is in a PM I sent you yesterday


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## NCSUZoSo

But look, you can see you didn't make that connection:


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## NCSUZoSo

I need verification on the circuit before I am putting my card back in at this point.


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## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> But look, you can see you didn't make that connection:


:



Please call me I'm not at home so hard to text. I can clear things up better on phone


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## germanium

Please call as I'm not home.I can answer better on phone please.


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## NCSUZoSo

Well it's pretty simple though. Do you tie into the Takamisawa A5W-K Relay or not?  In your picture it is not tied into.


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## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> Well it's pretty simple though. Do you tie into the Takamisawa A5W-K Relay or not?  In your picture it is not tied into.




No


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## NCSUZoSo

Then my diagram is correct on those two caps.  His shows it tying into the relay on pin 5/10.


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## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> Then my diagram is correct on those two caps.  His shows it tying into the relay on pin 5/10.


 

 No his just overlapped those pins not connected to them look where the lead ends are, not where the diagram overlaps. by the way I'm home now I was at the pier earlier trying to get rid of my load so it was hard for me to text as I was doing so from my cell phone. your diagram was not correct because it shows either no connection at all to the board or a  shorted power supply cap which would destroy the card & possibly computer. The upper connection is exactly as the lower one should be with no connection to the relay.
  
 I"m starting to get the feeling you are trying to confuse others so they won't try it when you yourself did it correctly & seemed to like the results but later tried to discourage others from doing so in this statement, ~~I think this mod should be left to people like yourself and I, because you can get similar quality gains with changing the opamps. It is different, but the amount of actual change is about equal. I would say to anyone not comfortable taking a soldering iron to perfectly good hardware to look into the Opamp Thread.
  
 I think my instructions were clear & NoOneLT's diagram was very good except for where the schematic overlapped the relay pins but it was still clear enough for you to do the job correct originally. While I would agree that people with no soldering experience should not do it themselves just about anyone with rudimentary soldering experience very well can & others I recommend taking my instruction to a qualified tech to do the soldering.


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## NCSUZoSo

Well if you show a connection point between two points, you assume that is a jumper/short.  However like I said, I assumed he used the same layout.  I wish NoOneLt would just reply back and clear this up.  I am not trying to discourage anyone, I am trying to make sure that my own mod is correct.  If you look at this too quickly you would assume you solder on the relay pin and jumper back to the original two points.


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## germanium

As an explanation as to how I came about these modifications I figured I should give you a rundown of my earlier years trying different things till I found something that worked.
  
 While I have been interested in audio since I was 5 years old. I could never afford any of the better gear so I had to make do with what I could afford. My first amp that had any kind of decent sound was a small 40 watt JVC integrated amp that at least the amp section was full D.C. coupled meaning it could amplify signal down to & including D.C.. This amp seemed to have a better sound than others in it's price & power class. At the time I didn't know how to make a amp flat down to D.C. but years later I found out & started doing that wherever I could & the results were predictably excellent but I always still felt I could get even more resolution than I was getting at that time.
  
 Some years later I bought an Adcom GFA545 amp. This amp became a test bed for many ideas some of which worked & some which didn't. I wanted to D.C. couple it but D.C. offset was too high at the input to be safe it seemed so I started looking for other things I could do to improve this amp as it definitely needed improvement. The upper midrange & treble was too bright & the bass end was soft & soggy sounding. I seriously wanted to correct that sound signature. So I started playing around with the caps going to ground from the negative feedback circuit which had if I remember correctly a 47uf electrolytic cap bypassed by a 1uf metalized film cap. As a test I pulled 1uf metalized film cap & the sound became very dead. This told me that the loss caused by the electrolytic cap was quite huge. Because the gain of this amp was quite large at 20+db the character faults of the electrolytic was amplified by the same degree. I was able to later substitute a metalized film cap of huge size (100uf) & this corrected the split personality between the bass & the midrange. I now had firm  very well defined bass that went very deep & much clearer & fuller sounding midrange & treble. I still other issues to fix with this amp such grainy texture to the sound which I fixed by replacing the ceramic frequency compensation cap with a silvered mica cap, much improved no more grainy texture to the sound. There was many other things I did with this amp as well to improve thing as well but I'm going to consider those a trade secret for now as if I can get with someone who could design basic amp circuits I have some special tricks up my sleeve for them.
  
 It was this experimental phase in my life that lead me to conclude that electrolytic caps are just a necessary evil that is very hard to get around but if one could get rid of them or assist them with a much higher grade cap that things could be vastly improved but unlike many people who only used small metalized film caps I chose to go as large as possible even use them in the power supply as I was sure that there was still a fair amount of signal loss even there & sure enough my experiments have shown this to be true.
  
 Later I began experimenting with sound cards for computer & found much the same to be true that I could get much better sound by D.C. coupling & bypassing power supply caps with metalized film initially of smaller value but still larger than anybody else was using for this purpose & as time progressed I started using larger ones in an attempt to get a better & more even sound signature than possible using small bypasses that most manufacturers use. The extra room inside the computer case was a huge boon to my experimentation as I could use quite large ones that wouldn't fit in the confines of most stereo components.
  
 My goal was to approach as closely as possible the sound of very high end gear that cost more than 100,000dollars with only spending 1% of that amount. I feel that I have accomplished that. I may not be able to fill a large room like them or play as loud as them but within its power capability this system that I have now performs as well at any reasonable volume. The imaging is even better on mine due to the fact that
  
 1. They are small
  
 2. I have them positioned in the room to prevent nearby reflection of sound
  
 3. They are positioned in the room in a manner to break up standing waves with little or no room treatment necessary.


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## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> Well if you show a connection point between two points, you assume that is a jumper/short.  However like I said, I assumed he used the same layout.  I wish NoOneLt would just reply back and clear this up.  I am not trying to discourage anyone, I am trying to make sure that my own mod is correct.  If you look at this too quickly you would assume you solder on the relay pin and jumper back to the original two points.


 

 Why you asking NoOne Lt? He is not the one that came up with these mods , I Am the one. He was just going by my picture & directions when he made the schematic on the back side of the card about my mod. I'm telling you & you seen in my picture there is no connection to the relay. He has not even done the mod himself yet.


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## NoOneLt

Hey, i believe problem was that it seemed from drawing that green caps should touch one unnecessary pin. Fixed drawing on the first page, it looks like this now, only caps legs should be shorten/bypassed, nothing more:

 Still waiting for my mod


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## germanium

noonelt said:


> Hey, i believe problem was that it seemed from drawing that green caps should touch one unnecessary pin. Fixed drawing on the first page, it looks like this now, only caps legs should be shorten/bypassed, nothing more:
> 
> Still waiting for my mod


 
  
 Thank you very much


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## NCSUZoSo

Awesome, that means I did it right, lol.
  
 When I was trying to Photoshop his diagram I ended up drawing a short, instead of connecting the leads to make a single on each end as it was done.


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## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> Awesome, that means I did it right, lol.
> 
> When I was trying to Photoshop his diagram I ended up drawing a short, instead of connecting the leads to make a single on each end as it was done.




Sorry about what I said earlier about seeming that you were trying to cause confusion as I now see what you were trying to correct. Thank you for your persistence. Bear in mind that during the day time I'm out on the road hauling heavy container freight & it is hard for me to respond in text as I have be stopped. & I generally have very limited time to answer in text.

I would like to actually speak with you sometime however about hi-fi in general. 

Thank You also to NoOneLt for his quick fixing of his diagram to prevent any further confusion.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I have to say now that I have given this mod time to break in with the new op-amps it is by far the highest resolution audio source I have, which is impressive because it's coming out of loud speakers.  I have $500 in headphones and headphone amp + tubes and about $900 in my car (Kenwood Excelon X994 + Kenwood KAC-8405 4 Ch Amp + Infinity Kappa 4x6" Plate and 6x9" + 12" Bazooka 200W) and I prefer my signal chain that starts with the modded ZXR.  I have it going into the multi-channel input on my Yamaha RX-V863, which automatically just amplifies the source and can't be altered by digital circuitry.  They even have a setting called Pure Direct will kill all PCBs non-essential like video processing, so it's a great amp to pair with a sound card.  Then that is going into a 5.2 setup that you can see in my sig.  The warmth is only matched by my modded Aune T1 and SoundMAGIC HP100, but the resolution is unmatched by anything I have.  Although my car is damn good for a car, it can't keep up with this much equipment even though it is completely jam packed.
  
 Overall I would say this is one of the most worthwhile mods I have done on anything and I have done a lot of mods including soldering directly to motherboards and video cards.


----------



## germanium

I made one mistake. There is a third capacitor near the DAC that needs bypassing. Do not remove any of the others just get another cap & bypass it like the others
  

  
 It is the one purple boxed capacitor that is by itself that is on the back side of the EMI shield copper strip. It will yield only a minor improvement but an improvement none the less.


----------



## ModJPB

I am a newb when it comes to audio electronics. I have done voltage mods and worked on car electronics but never audio equipment. Could you educate me on a few things for this mod.
  
 1. Do the mods have to be done all at the same time. Can I just do the shorted caps in the red and blue boxes and will this show some improvement?
  
 2. If you are shorting the caps in the red and blue areas aren't you essentially disabling them. What is there purpose if the audio sounds better without them?
  
 3. In order, which mods make the greatest to least change in audio difference.
  
 4. What does each mod actually help the card do? 
  
 5. Why are you suggesting film capacitors rather than the electrolytic ones? Could I use electrolytic ones, I am limited on space and aren't electrolytic caps smaller?


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Look inside of a high end guitar amp and you'll get you answer on the caps, for the rest of your questions it was mostly covered in the OP.


----------



## germanium

modjpb said:


> I am a newb when it comes to audio electronics. I have done voltage mods and worked on car electronics but never audio equipment. Could you educate me on a few things for this mod.
> 
> 1. Do the mods have to be done all at the same time. Can I just do the shorted caps in the red and blue boxes and will this show some improvement?
> 
> ...


 
 1. Yes you will get some improvement but you won't get the smoother more extended treble or the warmth in the mids.
  
 2. Yes you are disabling them, they are not necessary nor are they called for by the DAC manufacturer
  
 3. You won't get the full benefit of the film caps bypasses without shorting the coupling caps. Shorting must be done before attaching film caps.
  
 4. All of the mods improve the DAC's ability to pass the signal to the next stage. The film caps provide an improved signal return path resulting in radically higher resolution both from the DAC & from the I/V converters & buffers. All caps bypasses should be done to get the combined warmth & detail that this card is capable of.
  
 5. Because electrolytic capacitors are a very low grade capacitor which only real advantage is the ability to store lots of energy in a small space, The losses in the signal can be quite large with them especially noticeable if used in the negative feedback loop going to ground controlling the gain of a high gain amplifier which is how I found out how bad sounding the really are.


----------



## raymond555

I swapped the I\V section with MUSE02 and OPA627BP in the buffers......Awesome sounding card,but stock omps really suck!


----------



## germanium

raymond555 said:


> I swapped the I\V section with MUSE02 and OPA627BP in the buffers......Awesome sounding card,but stock omps really suck!




Note that I am still using stock opamps. They work extremely well with my modifications. Give the stock opamps an improved power supply & direct connection & they really shine. Everyone that has heard my system with the modified card has been slack jawed by how fine it sounds. They say that it is like being in the studio with the band.


----------



## ModJPB

I have another question after doing some research. The caps that you are bypassing in the red and blue boxes, are these the output coupling capacitors? If yes, then how will the card prevent from sending an amp or speakers a constant DC signal?  If no, then what the heck did Creative Labs put these caps here for? I mean if it sounds better without them then why did they spend money putting them in? Sorry, I am not doubting you, I am trying to figure out what Creative Labs purpose was behind their design.


----------



## germanium

modjpb said:


> I have another question after doing some research. The caps that you are bypassing in the red and blue boxes, are these the output coupling capacitors? If yes, then how will the card prevent from sending an amp or speakers a constant DC signal?  If no, then what the heck did Creative Labs put these caps here for? I mean if it sounds better without them then why did they spend money putting them in? Sorry, I am not doubting you, I am trying to figure out what Creative Labs purpose was behind their design.




These are not output coupling caps but interstage coupling caps. To my knowledge creative rarely uses output stage coupling cap only interstage coupling caps. The is no blocking of D.C. from being output from any of Creative's cards. The only concern really is that when short the interstage coupling caps is that if you get a bad short one of caps you will get about 2.5 volts of D.C. offset at the output. This can be hazardous to downline equipment. The DAC manufacturer does not recommend any coupling caps at all. Properly shorted you get almost zero D.C. offset as less than 5millivolts. This is perfectly safe.


----------



## germanium

This is a fixed picture of the back of the card showing the new cap location.


 There is now 3 caps near the DAC that need bypassing shown in purple. all get 12uf metal film caps.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I'm just waiting on ERSE to get my caps back in stock...
  
 http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/PulseX250v/MPX25-03-12-00


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I'm going to have 3 extra of the caps above that I'll sell for $4 each including shipping (inside the US).  The going price is $4.57 + SH and you have to spend at least $20 on ERSE.
  
 These are some of the best Metallized Polypropylene Film Capacitors you can buy that aren't NOS.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

today is D-Day for the capacitor fix that was posted, plus I'm going to desolder one that I never told what happened to it.  I actually broke the lead off of one of my capacitors when I had no extras so what I did was actually solder the lead back to the capacitor after scraping down some plastic to show the broken lead inside.  It worked, but I'm going to replace it today.
  
 Pics to come later.
  
 Here are my two Mylar ERSE PulseX caps (have 3 extras of these for sale):


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Here ya go:
  

  
 Change the pic of my modding in the OP to this picture.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I'm surprised more people aren't at least curious of this mod, but I guess soldering to a card that expensive scares some people.


----------



## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> I'm surprised more people aren't at least curious of this mod, but I guess soldering to a card that expensive scares some people.


 
  
  
 I know that there are some here that do considerably harder modifications to cards that are very nearly as expensive. To those people it may appear that this is too simple to yield the claimed result. To others that have limited or no experience with soldering the risk is real to them that they could mess it up in a bad way. It appears that I may have oversold it not because it doesn't meet my claims but that they sounds too good to be true.  There is also the factor that because of the extra room needed for the caps on the back side of the board that many computers just don't have the necessary room for these capacitors.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Yea I wouldn't have believed the end results came from this mod (+ upgraded opamps for my exact sound) if I hadn't done it myself.  I was expecting less out of the DC cap mod and more from the opamps and that ended up being in reverse.


----------



## MadKid

Hi Germanium and all I've been following this thread for a month
 What captured my interest is that I'm currently building a ES9018 DAC with 992Enh opamps from Sonic Imagery Labs to replace my ZxR
 Before I finish the DAC project I have swapped the opamps and already made a huge improvements
 I will make this mod to see if can further the quality of it
 Got a plan to make the whole thing neat and tidy
 Will share once I got it done
  
 Happy modding!


----------



## NCSUZoSo

If you have any questions just ask.  Like I mentioned before, you don't want to use any type of copper (even solid copper) wire to make it neater.  Mine isn't laid out perfectly, but it works perfectly


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Two other pictures:


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I found another good supplier for high quality capacitors and these boys carry lots of brands from Sprague to NOS.
  
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_all.html
  
 Some of those are insanely expensive, so just keep looking until you find one around the price or below my ERSE PulseX ($4.50), but some are over $55 a cap..


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I wanted to mention this in case someone hits the wrong brand.  The capacitors range from $3 each all the way up to above $500 so don't think they are all that high, but I would go with ERSE due to the price and the fast/cheap shipping.  You can get my ERSE PulseX capacitors for like $4-$5 each.


----------



## germanium

I updated my photo on the original post to include all the necessary mods. Will post a new picture of the completed mod later as to be honest I'm enjoying it too much to pull it out to take pictures of it but will next weekend.


----------



## MadKid

Managed to get the mod done last night and after enjoyed to some music I would like to share the mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But since I can't upload the pics here as a new comer I will link the pics I posted on other forum instead
  
http://www.hkepc.com/forum/attachments/month_1406/14062322048a0e29c736dfaa9c.jpg
  
http://www.hkepc.com/forum/attachments/month_1406/14062322044fa30de7f2d5fa6f.jpg
  
http://www.hkepc.com/forum/attachments/month_1406/140623220415b94fc74872610c.jpg
  
http://www.hkepc.com/forum/attachments/month_1406/140623220415657e2caca09b26.jpg
  
http://www.hkepc.com/forum/attachments/month_1406/14062322040ccc83c94e5b73eb.jpg


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I've always thought those Op-Amps are so huge and with how my GPUs are arranged I couldn't even use them.
  
 Good job on the mod.


----------



## germanium

Neat job especially with the bread boarding the caps though like NCSUZoso mentioned it would never fit in my situation. Is there any significant difference I.E. improvement in sound compared to using the discrete opamps themselves?


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Those are actually considered the most discrete because everything stays analog the entire time
  
 It works on the same principle as this:
  

  
  
 I was looking at these which are about the same size:
  
 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/OPA/OPAEN.htm


----------



## MadKid

germanium said:


> Neat job especially with the bread boarding the caps though like NCSUZoso mentioned it would never fit in my situation. Is there any significant difference I.E. improvement in sound compared to using the discrete opamps themselves?


 
  
 The opamps alone already improved a lot and the cap mod really brings it to another level
 Transparent mids, cut through but not over done highs is guaranteed
  
 I could say if the opamps mod scored 65/100, it well worth a 75 plus the cap mod


----------



## MadKid

My suggestion is...
  
 don't buy the audio-gd discrete opamp


----------



## NCSUZoSo

oh I'm past the opamp stage or I wouldn't have done this mod (check my sig for details):
  

  
  
 Now lets go to a different subject, Creative's Stereo Direct says it does this:
  


> Stereo Direct  is an option for direct playback to stereo speaker channel sampled at 192kHz.


 
  
 You lose SBX Pro, DTS Connect, DDL and for some reason the Equalizer??  You have to stop any audio source from playing and close it or you will freeze the PC.  What I want to know is what exactly is this doing?  You can't change the volume through windows, it has to be done on your output (receiver/powered speakers/etc.).


----------



## MadKid

Indeed Germanium I got a question after the mod.
  
 What is the purpose / advantage of having 12uf / 24uf for the bypass cap over the usual 0.1uf film cap?


----------



## germanium

madkid said:


> Indeed Germanium I got a question after the mod.
> 
> What is the purpose / advantage of having 12uf / 24uf for the bypass cap over the usual 0.1uf film cap?


 
  
  
 The large bypasses came about through a lot of experimentation over the years. I found that .1 microfarad film bypasses seemed to help sweeten the very high audio frequencies but not much anywhere else. Doubling & tripling that resulted upper midrange glare which I reasoned was due to an increase in output in that area without the necessary body support from the frequencies below so I started trying larger & larger caps until I could get the necessary body & hence get a consistent sound signature through out the frequency range. It is for the reason of glare I believe most all manufacturers & modifiers shy away from the slightly larger caps & really never try to go beyond those early attempts as it does sound worse than either staying small or going whole hog like I did. About 5uf is enough to get a consistent sound signature but I reasoned that larger ones would give me improved dynamics & so it has. Having a consistent sound signature is as important as improving apparent resolution which these mods do as well especially noticeable in the greater clarity of background instruments & voices. All this without glare because the body is there  These sizes work great for small signal amps & DAC's but even larger ones are necessary to get these improvements out of power amps.
  
 They work because the power supply is in the direct signal path & the benefits are identical to using film caps exclusively for coupling between stages & different components though I actually prefer to direct couple so there is no unneeded caps in the signal path. Even my power amps are full direct coupled even to ground from the negative feedback loop making the capable of amplifying all the way down to D.C..


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I just wanted to tell you guys, I just got this in the mail and it does DTS Master Audio 5.1, but it also can do 2.0 PCM (which some people say is better than the 5.1).  If you are an Elton John fan and have the dough, I would highly recommend it.  It got the same treatment the Pink Floyd Immersion Box Sets have (which are normally over $100 each).
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I48RA76/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 It's not cheap, but the audio is almost better than the Pink Floyd 5.1 Blu-Rays I have.


----------



## germanium

Posted new pictures on original post


----------



## nicoguy

Looks nice, should be paired with a B&W surround set..


----------



## germanium

nicoguy said:


> Looks nice, should be paired with a B&W surround set..


 

 Not much into surround & did not modify the surround section on mine. The speakers I have are better than most surround speaker sets & I have modified the amps in them for ultra high resolution & realism.
  
 I've had a few people over to hear it & they told how much it seemed as if like being there live in a studio with the musicians, that includes one was actually a musician.
  
 I can still hear surround type effects if recorded that way such as if recorded with a blumlien microphone setup which is crossed figure eight mikes. the effect incredible not only in the spread of the sound but in the preciseness of the imaging even when the sound go beyond the speakers.


----------



## VelictAF

I'm quite new to audio in general, but not electronics. I was wondering what amps you're using (blue and green) on the smd / dip 8 converters.


----------



## VelictAF

ncsuzoso said:


> I just wanted to tell you guys, I just got this in the mail and it does DTS Master Audio 5.1, but it also can do 2.0 PCM (which some people say is better than the 5.1).  If you are an Elton John fan and have the dough, I would highly recommend it.  It got the same treatment the Pink Floyd Immersion Box Sets have (which are normally over $100 each).
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I48RA76/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> It's not cheap, but the audio is almost better than the Pink Floyd 5.1 Blu-Rays I have.


 

 Woah! you're over at OCN!


----------



## germanium

velictaf said:


> I'm quite new to audio in general, but not electronics. I was wondering what amps you're using (blue and green) on the smd / dip 8 converters.


 

 Those are listed in NCSUZOso's signature at the bottom of his post.2x ADA8597 & 4x ADA4627-1BRZ


----------



## VelictAF

sweet, got it.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

This thread is starting to get shown on other forums 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The only thing is you have people who are anti-modding (they exist on every forum) asking what in the hell is the point and I tried to give them a quick rundown.
  
 http://www.overclock.net/t/1435931/zxr-op-amp-suggestions-needed-and-some-op-amp-general-questions/30#post_22623648


----------



## VelictAF

What are anti modders doing on a modder forum? I never understood that.


----------



## germanium

velictaf said:


> What are anti modders doing on a modder forum? I never understood that.


 

 Looking at that site I didn't so much get that they were so much anti modding but they didn't understand the reason for the large bypass caps as most people are taught that long leads are the bain of quiet amp operation. My tests have showed that noise is not a concern with these bypasses. What they don't take into account is that these caps are far superior to the original electrolytics even with their long leads to be able to shunt any extra noise to ground across a much broader frequency range. Plus they have much better audio performance.


----------



## VelictAF

Hey man, I like what you have done. Enough said. You found a way to make something better. You found a legitimate mod... and nothing will hurt your card. Honestly, thank you for the information.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

germanium said:


> Looking at that site I didn't so much get that they were so much anti modding but they didn't understand the reason for the large bypass caps as most people are taught that long leads are the bain of quiet amp operation. My tests have showed that noise is not a concern with these bypasses. What they don't take into account is that these caps are far superior to the original electrolytics even with their long leads to be able to shunt any extra noise to ground across a much broader frequency range. Plus they have much better audio performance.


 
  
  
 They are a bunch of idiots, I mean not knowing that some capacitors don't come in every voltage... and they based the long lead on my pictures, lol.  It's not physically possible to fit those capacitors in a better position and not block soldering points.


----------



## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> They are a bunch of idiots, I mean not knowing that some capacitors don't come in every voltage... and they based the long lead on my pictures, lol.  It's not physically possible to fit those capacitors in a better position and not block soldering points.


 
  
 Not idiots, just have to unlearn some things that they leaned elsewhere as there are different ways of doing things that can get as good if not better results than doing things the old accepted way of doing things. Every once in a while you have to try to think beyond the box, beyond what you are taught in school. Not every thing you learn in school is correct for all situations. This is particularly true in my profession. As a truck driver I leaned in school 2 different way to make a left hand turn onto a multi lane road. The CDL way & the safe way. The CDL way puts you at risk of hitting other drivers that might not figure quickly what you are doing & thus get into your blind spot. The safe way prevents them from getting into your blind spot at all. Even though the safe way is better the CDL way is what they want to see in any driver test for trucks.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Yea I know what you mean, but if you don't even understand what you are looking at then what is the point in trying to talk about it?  That was my point really towards the guy talking about 250V caps on a PC sound card.


----------



## Stadtpirat

Hi,
 After help from Germanium an NCSUZoSo
  
 i have all i need for my ZXR Mod:
 2x DIP8 = AD8597
 2x DIP8 = 2x ADA4627-1BRZ
 2x 24uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc
 3x 12uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc
  
 Can u help me please i have questions for the shorted Cap from first Post.
 I use a Beyerdynamic T70 Headphone
  


> The caps in the red box need to be shorted underneath the board. This is for the analog stereo output section of the card The caps in the blue box are for the surround sound analog output section. These only need to be shorted if you are using 5.1 speakers with analog input.


 
 When i use a Headphone i must shorted the caps only in the red box?? or blu and red box???


----------



## germanium

stadtpirat said:


> Hi,
> After help from Germanium an NCSUZoSo
> 
> i have all i need for my ZXR Mod:
> ...




Only need to short the caps shown with red short lines for stereo or headphones, other short lines are for surround sound. If you plan on doing surround sound at any time in the future it is best short them now. If you are sure you won't then leave those shorts out.

The reason you would want to do those shorts now if you plan on using the surround sound in the future is that it is strongly advisable to glue the film capacitors down to the board to prevent stress on the solder joints. This would make these short connections inacessable in the future so better to do it now.


----------



## Stadtpirat

sorry please delete. i understand it now  many thanks


----------



## NCSUZoSo

If you are going with the exact same op-amps as me you should use this guy unless you can do surface mount soldering:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Analog-Devices-ADA4627-1BRZs-converted-to-a-dual-op-amp-DIP8-Xonar-ASUS-STX-/271548587676?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f398e9e9c
  
 That is who did mine (see pictures in thread).


----------



## Stadtpirat

Yes sir!
 Your Sound setup with this ics are great for my Beyerdynamic T70
 After a long search.
 This Seller is the one and only i Found in the internet.
 i wait over 2 Weeks, but the Taiwan post use a little boat and a slave for transport to germany.
 And the ADA4627 are very hot, i plan a thermal pad between the emi shield and the dip8.
 But i have a problem. Left Channel at 20 and the right channel at 30 % for real Sterreo. I think 1 of the 2 ADA4627 are damage.
 Now i rebuy 2x and wait 2 Weeks and hope for real Sterreo.
  
 I Buy the AD8597 at this guy
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/371097726873?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Very Fast delivery to Germany


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Did you already return the opamp?  It's possible you just didn't have it seated completely or it just needs to be reseated.
  
 I have actually used that ebay seller you linked, he does good work.


----------



## Stadtpirat

Yes i dont say the reseller sell dammage ic.
 i seated the ic in the wrong direction, after no sound i change it. 
 i buy new ics, and in 2 weeks i use it in the right direction 
  
 Update:
 My Mod 

  
 I hope it is right to remove all the caps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Now i build a Case 
 Sorry my englich is not good


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Try to get clear close ups of where those caps are soldered both on the top side and the bottom side.


----------



## VelictAF

Is that carpet? Build on a table D:


----------



## NCSUZoSo

That is true, static electricity is not your friend


----------



## Stadtpirat

I remove the caps and make a wire to the new caps. 12uF and 24uf ClarityCap Kondensator PWA and i shorted the red marked caps.
 Nothing on the Backside. I asket for the caps on both sides (org + custom) or only on one side (only custom caps).
 Yes it is carpet 
 static electricity is my friend but today it is hims free day 
  
 Update:
 New Pic!
 Update 2:
 Sound is  very very very good 
  
 Update 3:
 My 4x ADA4627-1BRZ arive
 I have a question. I make my EQ Software like the Page 2. Can you say me please the value.
 31
 62
 125
 250
 500
 1K
 2K
 4K
 8K
 16K
 Level
  
 You can send me the profile.... from this:

  
 or only this section:


> </Preset>
> <Preset Id="12" Name="6D00650069006E00650020003200" Type="Custom">
> <Param FeatureId="268435472" ParamId="1" Type="Float" Value="0" />
> <Param FeatureId="268435472" ParamId="2" Type="Float" Value="14" />
> ...


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I wanted to see the solder points on the backside of the PCB, I realize they are going through the top of the PCB however the you soldered them on the backside.


----------



## ModJPB

Thanks for the mod!!!
  
 I have done the bypass on the coupling caps (Red and Blue section) on all the channels. The sound is now more upfront!!! This solves the one complaint I felt about the sound from this card being distant. This part of the mod was fairly easy and well worth it for me. The only downside I noticed is the center channel now seems more dominant.? I had to lower the volume slightly on the center channel to fix this. Any ideas why?
  
 I would like to do the decoupling capacitors (purple and green section) next, but finding space for them is very limited. Anybody have any ideas for doing this part of the mod but keeping it as compact as possible. When done I will report my impressions.


----------



## dutchdog

@germanium
Great thread.


----------



## dutchdog

stadtpirat said:


> I remove the caps and make a wire to the new caps. 12uF and 24uf ClarityCap Kondensator PWA and i shorted the red marked caps.
> Nothing on the Backside. I asket for the caps on both sides (org + custom) or only on one side (only custom caps).




I do like removing caps alltogether , shorting them on front and using long wire. 
Why now only 5 caps instead of 6/7 that are shown in earlier pictures on this thread. Is 5 now indeed correct?

I cleaned up after reading the thread fully to make 1 clear post. Can you mark the points, make a more detailed picture instruction?
If not I will do it myself as after making this summary I now understand what needs to be done. It its 21 steps.

Make numbers and say what you did. I allreadt made the index, just number the pictures on high res pictures.
This if for Front faced mod with long wires. Glue capacitors at the back with hot glue to make it neat.

*1. 21 steps to mod your ZXR*

_
1. Location of first AD8597 
2. Location of second AD8597 

3. Location of first ADA4627
4. Location of second ADA4627

GREEN
5. Remove cap and first 24uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc
6. Remove cap and second 24uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc

PURPLE
7. Remove cap and first 12uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc
8. Remove cap and second 12uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc
9. Remove cap and third 12uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc

RED
10. Remove cap and Short location 1 for stereo
11. Remove cap and Short location 2 for stereo
12. Remove cap and Short location 3 for stereo
13. Remove cap and Short location 4 for stereo

Optional if you want surround to ->

BLUE
14. Remove cap and Short location 5 for surround
15. Remove cap and Short location 6 for surround
16. Remove cap and Short location 7 for surround
17. Remove cap and Short location 8 for surround
18. Remove cap and Short location 9 for surround
19. Remove cap and Short location 10 for surround
20. Remove cap and Short location 11 for surround
21. Remove cap and Short location 12 for surround
_

*2. This is the full list of parts as mentioned earlier*

_
2x DIP8 = AD8597 (OP AMPS)

2x DIP8 = 2x ADA4627-1BRZ ( Precision Amplifiers)

2x 24uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc

3x 12uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc_

*3. You shorted only red as you shorted just for stereo, correct? Otherwise one can remove all caps and short them all if one wants surround.
What I find weird is that we remove/short 12 caps and only put 5 back and still card will work fully and better than before. Why is that?*


----------



## dutchdog

Since the Z is the same card , not surround, but same dac and a ton cheaper. I would be very intrested to do a similar mod to a Z. Shouldnt be to hard. I will buy one and post PCB.

Anyone keen in making a seperate thread for the Z?


----------



## germanium

dutchdog said:


> Since the Z is the same card , not surround, but same dac and a ton cheaper. I would be very intrested to do a similar mod to a Z. Shouldnt be to hard. I will buy one and post PCB.
> 
> Anyone keen in making a seperate thread for the Z?


 
 Card is not the same. DAC is not the same. I have modded cards before with the same DAC that is in the z  card & power supply mods to the DAC portion do not respond the same as it does with the Bur Brown DAC that is in the ZXR card. The Z uses a Cirrus Logic DAC. Power supply mods on the Opamp section are still good though. The Burr Brown DAC is a superior DAC to the Cirrus Logic DAC as well.


----------



## dutchdog

germanium said:


> Card is not the same. DAC is not the same. I have modded cards before with the same DAC that is in the z  card & power supply mods to the DAC portion do not respond the same as it does with the Bur Brown DAC that is in the ZXR card. The Z uses a Cirrus Logic DAC. Power supply mods on the Opamp section are still good though. The Burr Brown DAC is a superior DAC to the Cirrus Logic DAC as well.




Thanks. My bad. I thought they were the same.but indeed they are not. From web:
_
the ZxR is a completely different soundcard, as it has a better DAC in the form of a BURR BROWN DAC and has a Texas Instrument 600Ohms high fidelity AMP both of which ARE NOT on the Z or the ZX. The ZxR is also almost 2x the size of the Z/Zx card and also comes with another daughter board which comes with it's own soundcore chip on it meaning you get 2 soundcores on the ZxR vs the Z/ZX. The ZxR is meant to compete if not and in my opinion surpasses the Asus Xonar Essence STX as it's almost identical to the STX legendary sound qaulity but the ZxR has a few up on it as the ZxR supports full DTS and has full support for 5.1 via digital and analog which the STX doesn't._

Is my sumamrized instruction below ok @germanium?

I do like removing caps alltogether , shorting them on front and using long wire.
Why now only 5 caps instead of 6/7 that are shown in earlier pictures on this thread. Is 5 now indeed correct?

I cleaned up after reading the thread fully to make 1 clear post. Can you mark the points, make a more detailed picture instruction?
If not I will do it myself as after making this summary I now understand what needs to be done. It its 21 steps.

Make numbers and say what you did. I allreadt made the index, just number the pictures on high res pictures.
This if for Front faced mod with long wires. Glue capacitors at the back with hot glue to make it neat.

1. 21 steps to mod your ZXR


1. Location of first AD8597
2. Location of second AD8597

3. Location of first ADA4627
4. Location of second ADA4627

GREEN
5. Remove cap and first 24uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc
6. Remove cap and second 24uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc

PURPLE
7. Remove cap and first 12uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc
8. Remove cap and second 12uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc
9. Remove cap and third 12uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc

RED
10. Remove cap and Short location 1 for stereo
11. Remove cap and Short location 2 for stereo
12. Remove cap and Short location 3 for stereo
13. Remove cap and Short location 4 for stereo

Optional if you want surround to ->

BLUE
14. Remove cap and Short location 5 for surround
15. Remove cap and Short location 6 for surround
16. Remove cap and Short location 7 for surround
17. Remove cap and Short location 8 for surround
18. Remove cap and Short location 9 for surround
19. Remove cap and Short location 10 for surround
20. Remove cap and Short location 11 for surround
21. Remove cap and Short location 12 for surround


2. This is the full list of parts as mentioned earlier


2x DIP8 = AD8597 (OP AMPS)

2x DIP8 = 2x ADA4627-1BRZ ( Precision Amplifiers)

2x 24uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc

3x 12uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc

3. You shorted only red as you shorted just for stereo, correct? Otherwise one can remove all caps and short them all if one wants surround.
What I find weird is that we remove/short 12 caps and only put 5 back and still card will work fully and better than before. Why is that





Can you answer question 3 as Stadtpirat didnt delete and short the 5.1 caps,


----------



## germanium

dutchdog said:


> Thanks. My bad. I thought they were the same.but indeed they are not. From web:
> _
> the ZxR is a completely different soundcard, as it has a better DAC in the form of a BURR BROWN DAC and has a Texas Instrument 600Ohms high fidelity AMP both of which ARE NOT on the Z or the ZX. The ZxR is also almost 2x the size of the Z/Zx card and also comes with another daughter board which comes with it's own soundcore chip on it meaning you get 2 soundcores on the ZxR vs the Z/ZX. The ZxR is meant to compete if not and in my opinion surpasses the Asus Xonar Essence STX as it's almost identical to the STX legendary sound qaulity but the ZxR has a few up on it as the ZxR supports full DTS and has full support for 5.1 via digital and analog which the STX doesn't._
> 
> ...




The difference between my caps & the other guys is he used 1-24u cap in the place of my 2-12 if caps allowing him to use a total of only 5 caps to get the same values.

I did not choose to remove the original caps as I did not want to potentially damage the board traces/connection points as these boards are multi layer boards with hidden connections within the layers of the board it self that can be easily damaged.

I also felt that removing the original caps in the power supply could result in a kind of glaring sound without other having sufficient capacity capacitors to put in their place. Plus there is a lack of room for my prefered caps if I wanted to eliminate the original caps, I would have used larger metalized film caps in order to minimize glare.


----------



## Stadtpirat

My Mod are finish:

  

  

  
 Thermalpad on SoundIC and the DIP8 = AD8597 & 2x ADA4627-1BRZ


----------



## NCSUZoSo

LOL, did you put the caps inside of a movie box?
  
 Overall you did a good job on finding an alternate solution to the way germanium and I did it.
  
 Oh and just to clarify for future readers (or current), you do not have to buy the exact same opamps as me in order for this mod to work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I did spend a decent amount of cash to figure out the combo that would fit and I liked, so feel free to go with them.  However you can also get by with much cheaper opamps or leave the stock ones.
  
  
 ZoSo


----------



## germanium

Yes the stock ones work great for me & that is what I presented to my manufacturing friend.


----------



## Stadtpirat

Yes my one and oly old VHS Moviebox.
 Soundcard - Mainboard Screw - Moviebox (Isolated with Tempo / WC paper).
  
 Can you say me please the value of your EQ from Page 3 post #32
 31
 62
 125
 250
 500
 1K
 2K
 4K
 8K
 16K
 Level
  
 Thank you all for the Mod and your great help.
 I love the new ZXR Sound. And with the EQ from Page 3 post #32 the sound is perfekt!!!


----------



## NCSUZoSo

stadtpirat said:


> Yes my one and oly old VHS Moviebox.
> Soundcard - Mainboard Screw - Moviebox (Isolated with Tempo / WC paper).
> 
> Can you say me please the value of your EQ from Page 3 post #32
> ...


 
  
 Here are the EQ settings I am using (the one I am using is ZXR Mod 2), the one you saw on page 3 is the bottom one:
  
 ZXR Mod 2
 19 16 13 9 10 10 11 15 15 12

 ZXR Mod 1
 13 14 13 9 14 11 10 15 14 12

 ZXR Mod
 8 8 11 9 8 9 11 14 11 8
  
 You can't exactly copy EQ settings though with so many variables at play, although our sound cards are almost identically modded, our speakers/headphones aren't even close to the same.  If I was you I would use my EQ settings above as maybe a guide to start at, but you should play around with them to see if you don't find your "sweet" spot for your own setup.
  
 Good luck and I hope this helps.


----------



## germanium

Given the high average recording levels of most music now days & given the nature of digital EQ, EQ levels should not be boosted. Any EQ should be accomplished by cutting instead of boosting other wise you run the risk of clipping the music or running into on board limiter, both of which sound horrible.
  
 Clipping makes the music sound harsh & the limiter causes odd sudden shifts in volume as it yanks the volume down extremely quickly to avoid clipping & releases the volume somewhat more slowly causing short term holes in the relative volume making the music sound trippy but in a very uncomfortable sort of way.


----------



## Stadtpirat

Thanks,
 i make a little Pic.
 i play with the EQ but your Profile very good for me.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

germanium said:


> Given the high average recording levels of most music now days & given the nature of digital EQ, EQ levels should not be boosted. Any EQ should be accomplished by cutting instead of boosting other wise you run the risk of clipping the music or running into on board limiter, both of which sound horrible.
> 
> Clipping makes the music sound harsh & the limiter causes odd sudden shifts in volume as it yanks the volume down extremely quickly to avoid clipping & releases the volume somewhat more slowly causing short term holes in the relative volume making the music sound trippy but in a very uncomfortable sort of way.


 
  
 Are you saying you only run the EQ in the negative directions with flat (0) across the board as your start reference?  If so I have never heard anyone say what you just did, but that doesn't mean it's not true.  Can you show/tell us what your EQ is set to?
  
  


stadtpirat said:


> Thanks,
> i make a little Pic.
> i play with the EQ but your Profile very good for me.


 
  
 I'm glad to hear that it is helping you and that my settings are very close to what you find to be a sweet spot on your system.


----------



## germanium

If you really need to boost a frequency then first cut the overall volume by at least the same as the maximum boost of any one frequency.

There is a volume slider at the right hand side of the equalizer. It seems to be limited to +/- 12 dB so maximum boost should be 12 dB since you can only cut overall volume by 12db from the equalizer volume control.

Remember that any midrange & high frequencies ride on the low frequency waveform which means they are additive to the overall output by 50% of the maximum swing of the high frequency. If you have a low frequency signal that is right up against clipping a mid or high frequency signal will be clipped or limited causing a short term drop in overall volume from the limiter if present by the amount that the signal is drive past the point of clipping.

By the way I'm not using the EQ as I like the sound the way it is with my setup. Room placement does wonders in my case as I have largely eliminated standing waves & any near reflections due to the placement I have chosen in spite of my small room.

The reason you want to use the volume control in the EQ section to do this is that you need to reduce the overall volume before processing. If you wait until after processing the damage has already been done by the processing & will likely remain present even after reducing volume by the windows volume control which is a separate process. Reducing volume on a stream that has already been clipped will remain clipped because it was clipped before reaching the volume control process. The clipped wave will be reduced in volume but the clipped nature of the stream remains if correction doesn't take place where the original processing takes place.


----------



## germanium

bump


----------



## Stadtpirat

I have a question.
 Do you use the SBX Pro Studio?
 I only use the EQ.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Depends on the source material, but all I ever run is Crystalizer to give tracks some presence if they are lacking, nothing else is used in SBX by myself.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Ok I now believe in capacitor burn in time, which is because over the last 6 months the sound has only gotten better and better (my speakers already had at least 100-150 hours on them when I did the mod).  I have tracks that are 24 bit 96khz (some are binaural recordings) to test the quality along with Blu-Ray audio and movies, not only myself, but my gf can even hear this difference.  Once you do this mod the thing you will notice off the bat is more presence and the best way I know to describe other properties it is a more analog sound.  However as you keep using it the sound becomes even more detailed with a wider sound stage without losing the analog type sound you love from the first minute you hear it.
  
 Also if anyone is doing this mod, please ask any question you can think of or if you aren't positive about something.  I don't want to hear someone fried their card because they attempted this without asking a question they should have asked (there are no "dumb" questions when you are modding things like this).


----------



## Stadtpirat

I use the Mod to game with T70 and EQ ZXR Mod 2.
 The sound is great.
 But i must say for me and my pc.
 - i must use thermal pads for the dip8 and the EMI Shield
 - the dip8 are hot and shortcut with the EMI Shield
 - i must use the emi shield for best sound
 - my friend use my backup dip8 ( _2x AD8597, 4x ADA4627-1BRZ_ ) and he love it with beyerdynamic MMX 300 - 32 Ohm
  
 I think so:
 Stage 1: dip8 2xAD8597
 Stage 2: dip8 2xAD8597 + 4x ADA4627-1BRZ
 Stage 3: Custom Caps ( _24uF ClarityCap PWA 160Vdc_ )
 Stage 4: EQ Zxr Mod 2 
  
 Stage 2 is good but Stage 4 is the best.
 I write a tutorial in German, later if i have time 
 Because in Germany it is hard to buy the Dip8 
  
 No i search a cap with 12uF and 24uF but little and great sound.
 i found this:
 http://www.visaton.de/de/chassis_zubehoer/bauteile/mkp_kondensatoren/index.html
 But not with 12 and 24uF


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Well yea, if we could use any capacitor I would have gone with Sprague black beauties 

Is your "Stage 4" my EQ I posted, if so I am flattered my EQ = Stage 4 

Have you checked to see if your opamps are fully seated? That may sound obvious, but it is easy to overlook. However don't use too much pressure or you could damage the opamps, the sockets or even the pcb. I thought you used the same opamps on the same adapters that I am. Look at my picture in the gallery for a close up of the adapters I used. If you aren't using the same are all your opamps below the stock caps? If yours are the same as mine then you should have no clearance issues.

BTW, have you put enough hours on the caps yet, say 100 min, to hear a difference from burn in?

Also anyone in Germany could just use Google Translate and read this thread, just a thought.


----------



## Stadtpirat

You are right sir.
 Yes your EQ ZXR Mod 2 is the best what i hear in my life .
 I think the sound is after the burn in better
 - bass is not so deep but very very very good
 - vocals are very clear
 - instrumental i think i have the ear on it
  
 My heart go on or Candle in the wind or  i walk the line are soooooo good.
  
 My friend loves the dip8 too  Thanks from him to you


----------



## NCSUZoSo

bump, this mod deserves to stay alive, although Google sends you straight here if you just search "ZXR Mod"


----------



## Reckless95

So I guess since you bumped this and I have a ZxR in my system that I just got, I might as well go through with this. Are these the caps you guys used?
  
 http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/PulseX250v/MPX25-03-12-00
  
 Thanks


----------



## NCSUZoSo

One person used Clarity caps which are pretty costly, I am the one who used ERSE caps because they are available in the US and come at a fair price.  However yes, those are the same capacitors I have installed on mine.
  
 It is more important you understand the mod from beginning to end than it is which mylars you go with.


----------



## Reckless95

ncsuzoso said:


> One person used Clarity caps which are pretty costly, I am the one who used ERSE caps because they are available in the US and come at a fair price.  However yes, those are the same capacitors I have installed on mine.
> 
> It is more important you understand the mod from beginning to end than it is which mylars you go with.




So just one question about how he worded this. "The caps in the blue box are for the surround sound analog output section. These only need to be shorted if you are using 5.1 speakers with analog input." What does he mean by shorted?


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I don't intend this negatively at all, but if you are asking that question you may want to rethink doing this type of mod on equipment this expensive.
  
 However I will answer your question as I was one of the first people on head-fi to perform the mod.  A short takes the existing capacitor out of the circuit allowing you to use the mylars.
  
 You can see in the OP of this thread a picture of my shorts, which are essentially just pieces of metal (I used leads from the many extra LEDs I have).  Here is the picture, each location where a piece of LED lead is cut and soldered at two points corresponds to the picture and instructions you quoted above which are the stock capacitors you are taking out of the circuit.  Electricity follows the path of least resistance and because of this it flows across one solder point of capacitor directly to the other, in other words the capacitor is shorted out of the circuit.


----------



## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> I don't intend this negatively at all, but if you are asking that question you may want to rethink doing this type of mod on equipment this expensive.
> 
> However I will answer your question as I was one of the first people on head-fi to perform the mod.  A short takes the existing capacitor out of the circuit allowing you to use the mylars.
> 
> You can see in the OP of this thread a picture of my shorts, which are essentially just pieces of metal (I used leads from the many extra LEDs I have).  Here is the picture, each location where a piece of LED lead is cut and soldered at two points corresponds to the picture and instructions you quoted above which are the stock capacitors you are taking out of the circuit.  Electricity follows the path of least resistance and because of this it flows across one solder point of capacitor directly to the other, in other words the capacitor is shorted out of the circuit.


 
  
 Correction the caps do not need to be shorted to use the Mylar caps however you will not get the full benefit of the Mylar caps without shorting the coupling caps. Shorting the caps must be done before you permanently attach the caps to the board as they will need to be glued down to prevent movement in case the computer gets bumped so as not to stress the solder joints & cause them to come loose & possibly cause a short where there should not be one.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Well germanium I am sort of confused the point of using mylars if you don't short the existing ones.  You would then be using the old ones in some sort of way since they are not removed from the circuit.


----------



## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> Well germanium I am sort of confused the point of using mylars if you don't short the existing ones.  You would then be using the old ones in some sort of way since they are not removed from the circuit.




No need to be confused as I said that to get the full benefits from the Mylar caps that the coupling caps need to be shorted, it's just not an absolute requipment if someone feels uncomfortable doing that part. They just need to be done to get the absolute best from this mod.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

*Bump* for a mod that just sounds better and better with time.  If you have the skills and you have the ZXR this is one of the best mods I have ever done in terms of soldering iron to hardware.  I know germanium and I have both said it, but the best way to tell you the difference is like going from a solid state guitar amp to an all tube amplifier (more analog sound).  Keep in mind I have taken soldering irons directly to motherboards (two) and video cards (three) to increase voltage for higher clocks


----------



## lamka

very interesting, mod, there is two green connections one is easy to follow the other one is confusing can you kindly tell me more detials in diagram


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Is this the diagram in question?  I had this fixed at my request, between all the pictures available, what is the question?
  
  

  
 Look at my mod, you should be able to see almost exactly what it looks like when it is done.
  

  
 The caps are only turned due to best layout and what you are seeing there is hot glue to prevent possible shorts from occurring down the road.


----------



## lamka

can you kindly post a final diagram for connectiion point of green cap,purple and others, what is the value of cap ist 12uf, i have no permission to re-post your diagram


----------



## lamka

kindly provide the latest and final diagram of the card


----------



## germanium

lamka said:


> kindly provide the latest and final diagram of the card


 

 NCSUZoSo has already posted the final diagram & yes all bypass capacitors used are 12uf. There have been no changes since then.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

lamka said:


> can you kindly post a final diagram for connectiion point of green cap,purple and others, what is the value of cap ist 12uf, i have no permission to re-post your diagram


 
  
 You can easily repost it, just open it and then save it to your desktop.  Mark where you are confused using paint or whatever you want and then upload the picture again showing us your question/s.


----------



## lamka

i want to show you my dear, but "*Your account does not have the required permissions to access this page."*


----------



## lamka

can you tell me your e mail please


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I'm not sure what you are trying to do, but you can either use a link and use the picture button 2 to the left of the smiley face button.  Or you can upload a picture with the same button.  We don't have any more permissions than you do, we are all just board members.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Felt it was time to show people exactly what I am playing my modded ZXR through/with:
  

  

  
 See Sig for Home Theater specs.
  
 PC Specs:
  
 GPU: SLI ASUS GTX 660 Ti DCII 2GB @ 1215/7012
 LCD: BenQ XL2420TE (144Hz) (Primary Monitor) 24" Dell + 42" RCA 1080p
 Mobo: ASRock Z77 Extreme6
 Sound: SoundBlaster ZXR + Yamaha RX-V863 (LPCM) + Polk Audio Monitor 45Bs & 30s + Definitive Tech C/L/R 2002
 RAM: G.SKILL Sniper Series DDR3 2133 4x4GB
 Storage: Samsung 840 Pro 128GB + 4TB Seagate Barracuda +1TB WD Black Caviar + 1TB Seagate Barracuda
 PSU: Corsair HX 750W 80+ Silver (62A)
 UPS: Cyberpower CP1200AVR (720W)
 OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate x64
 Cooling: Corsair 650D + TT Water2.0 Pro


----------



## germanium

Here is a picture of my system.
  
  

  
 See my signature below for specs.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Nice setup, I remember it from a previous post.  Most people probably won't even notice, but my primary gaming monitor (the BenQ) is sitting on top of my Definitive Technology center channel speaker (C/L/R 2002).
  
 I think it is important for people to realize you need a good speaker/receiver setup (if you use passive speakers) to compliment the ZXR and this mod, just like you wouldn't buy a $700 CPU and a $200 GPU expecting to max out every game.


----------



## lamka

Dear,
  
 what is the value of capacitor 12uf/ 24uf (both caps were used)
 is the capacitors are polarity or non polarity
 is it required to remove the capacitors of the cards (shorten) before doing this .
 what will be the life of the card after modification.


----------



## germanium

lamka said:


> Dear,
> 
> what is the value of capacitor 12uf/ 24uf (both caps were used)
> is the capacitors are polarity or non polarity
> ...




1. I used all 12 uf caps. 24uf caps can be used in the place of the caps where I used 2-12uf caps. 

2.Metalized film caps are always nonpolerized.

3.Coupling caps must be shorted before ataching bypass caps. This is one area that great care must be taken not to short a power supply cap as that will destroy the card. Coupling caps may also be removed & wire put in thier place but I seriously recomend against it if you have minmal experience with multilayer circuit boards

4. Nothing changes as far as longevity as long as these mods are done properly.


----------



## lamka

thanks 
  
 it seems that removing of all coupling capacitor is recommended or shorten without removing, because no experience on dual board pcb so far


----------



## lamka

i some how am not fully confident on dual board pcb


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Well I have said this over and over in this thread, if you aren't confident you can handle the soldering part of the mod then don't even attempt it.
  
 With me for example, all I needed was the diagram and the replacement cap values and I was off to the races.  If you don't feel like you are somewhere in that ballpark, especially the soldering part, don't attempt it.


----------



## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> Well I have said this over and over in this thread, if you aren't confident you can handle the soldering part of the mod then don't even attempt it.
> 
> With me for example, all I needed was the diagram and the replacement cap values and I was off to the races.  If you don't feel like you are somewhere in that ballpark, especially the soldering part, don't attempt it.




I Agree


----------



## germanium

lamka said:


> i some how am not fully confident on dual board pcb




These are actually at least 4 layer boards with internal connections within the layers so real easy to damage. 4 layer meaning that there are 4 layers within the board that have conductive traces & there are pins that connect the various layer to each other at critical points.


----------



## lamka

kindly tell me more detail about pcb i.e layers and necessary care to be taken during replacing and desoldering caps as im new to dual lay pcb


----------



## germanium

lamka said:


> kindly tell me more detail about pcb i.e layers and necessary care to be taken during replacing and desoldering caps as im new to dual lay pcb




There are hollow pins where the through hole electrolytic capacitors attach. These pins not only make connection at the two surfases of the board but also make connections to traces that are on the inside of the board as well. Probable connectionare in the case of the coupling capacitor connection is a pass though connection for the internal headphone amp which is likely direct coupled. Accidently pull that pin out in the process of removing a coupling cap & you may break the internal connection to the headphone amp as well. For this reason I do not recommend removing these caps, shorting them accomplishes the same purpose without the risk of damage to the board.


----------



## lamka

thnks
  
 well, it mean shorten without removing is recommended, how can i by pass/replace 12uf/250 this portion also need not be removed of the capacitors of the board


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Why are you asking us to explain what has been detailed in this thread by 3 different people?
  
 Here is my posted step by step:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/705284/germaniums-sound-blaster-zxr-mod-thread/15#post_10353109
  
 If you have a specific question that is not covered in detailed (I doubt that exist for someone who can complete the mod with confidence, but it is possible) then ask us.  Asking how to short the caps instead of removing the caps is covered and discussed a lot in this thread.
  
 I'm not trying to be a d*ck here, but the stuff you have posted previously was borderline trolling.  I'm trying to see if you are serious about what you are even asking.  How about you show us a shot of your ZXR inside your PC.


----------



## lamka

im so sory for repeating the questions:
  
 but im not yet clear about, the purple and green replacement(placement /positioning of the replace cap is not my problems, removing/cuting out the the capacitor of the board which is not yet clear


----------



## germanium

lamka said:


> im so sory for repeating the questions:
> 
> but im not yet clear about, the purple and green replacement(placement /positioning of the replace cap is not my problems, removing/cuting out the the capacitor of the board which is not yet clear


 

 No capacitors are removed or cutout with my mod. Do like I said in my pm with you & take it to a professional along with the diagram & they would know exactly what to do no questions asked. It really is a very very simple mod. Also take the pictures provided as that tell them what kind of capacitor to use.


----------



## DarkThanatoS

Hi, I am a new user. Also buy the creative ZXR.
  
 Hare also modification.
  
 1.- According to the image need not unsolder the coupling capacitors in total are 12 and only have to weld and make a bridge diode filament.
  
 2. The non-polar capacitor 12 uf x250v - 3 units (purple) replace the capacitors stock of the pcb.
  
 3. The non-polar capacitor 24 uf 250v x - 2 units (green) replace the capacitors stock of the pcb.
  
 And for replacement of operational amplifiers which to choose:
  
 AD827SQ vs  4627-1  vs MUSES 02
  
 AD8597 vs NE5534N vs OPA627BP
  
 Greetings from Perú.


----------



## germanium

darkthanatos said:


> Hi, I am a new user. Also buy the creative ZXR.
> 
> Hare also modification.
> 
> ...




1. Yes just short out the coupling caps with a piece of plain wire , no need to remove the original caps as the short takes them out of the circuit electrically.

2.& 3. Non polar caps need to be metallized film. While one can remove the original power supply caps I do not recommend removing them as these regulators on this card are switch mode regulators & can be quite finicky. Reducing the amount of capacitance can lead to the regulators operating at a higher than intended frequency causing them to fail sooner. Note that there are nonpolarized electrolytics, do not use them for bypassing as they will offer you no improvement in sound.

As for the opamps I'm just using the stock opamps & they sound just fine to me. Switching opamps is more about obtaining a more suitable balance though this can improve perceived resolution I was going all out to improve resolution only without significantly coloring the sound compared to stock. Through listening to this card on other setups & comparing it straight across to a stock ZXR card with no modifications I feel that I have obtained my goal.

Welcome to Headfi DarkThanatoS. Be careful this hobby has the bad habit of draining your wallet & bank accounts.


----------



## lamka

I HAVE REPLACED THE SWAPABLE OPAMP WITH LME49710HA & LME 49710HA MADE SLIGHT CHANGE IN AUDIO QUALITY.


----------



## DarkThanatoS

Germanium, You will be able to post photos of both side of the PCB as well display the final work.
  
  
 Thanks.


----------



## germanium

darkthanatos said:


> Germanium, You will be able to post photos of both side of the PCB as well display the final work.
> 
> 
> Thanks.


 

 I did not take any pictures of the back side of the card before modification & I have since hot glued the metalized  film caps to the board permanently so I can't really take them off now however there is pictures from others who have done this mod & from someone who has drawn the schematic of the changes that need to be done on the back side of the card.
  
 NCSUZoSo provided a picture of the backside of the card that has the proper shorts applied before adding bypass caps  & after adding them. NoOneLt provided the one with the schematic drawn on the backside of a picture of the card. I provided the last piece in that drawing.
  
 NoOneLt has not actually modified his card yet but has kindly provided his computer drawing skills to this thread of mine. I'm not very good at drawing period & I'am even worse at doing so on the computer. I tried doing just one of the capacitor schematic drawings & it took me an hour just to get one that was just marginally acceptable to me so Much Thanks to NoOneLt for helping me out.
  
 The final mod pictures of mine are already provided on the first post.


----------



## DarkThanatoS

I need pictures once already completed the modification.
  
 ThankS.


----------



## germanium

darkthanatos said:


> I need pictures once already completed the modification.
> 
> ThankS.


 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/705284/germaniums-sound-blaster-zxr-mod-thread


----------



## NCSUZoSo

bump


----------



## NCSUZoSo

2015 bump for the best mod I have ever done and not a single problem since doing it in October 2013.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I've had a few PMs about Op-Amps to go with this mod, so I wanted to show yall these two pictures which should explain everything.
  
 The key is when you are buying them you either need a Dual DIP op-amp in the 1st stage as shown in the picture below, or you use two Single DIP op-amps with an adapter like I have done with my _4x ADA4627-1BRZ_.
  
 If anyone has any questions feel free to ask, these screens were sent to me by Creative Support about a year ago.  The 1st picture is just showing you where the Single vs. Dual DIP op-amps go, but the 2nd picture is the most informative.  It shows how the signal path is routed along with various other pieces of info.
  
  

  

  
  
 Here is how my op-amp setup looks:
  
 *Note: The blue adapters are holding two Single DIP op-amps per socket, there is another soldered on the bottom side that you can't see in the picture.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

My ZXR is in good company:


----------



## NoOneLt

At last i ordered 3x8 uF and 2x18 uF caps, and damn 18 are HUGE  Hope will put everything together and will share it here on weekend..


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Nice!!  Let us know if you have any questions.


----------



## NoOneLt

I thought i will do it myself, but after trying to put it all together i see that my hand is not that strong  I have taken it to experienced person.. He works mostly with Motorolla radio equipment. I haven't seen his work, so i just hope he will make it with care. 
  
 I'am a bit perfectionist in the wrong way...  so sometimes i don't even start something if i see a wont' get 100% result, and this was the case...
  
 Anyway, i have i closed PC case so i care most about sound quality + nothing will short out 
  
 Hope he will make it by tomorrow, if not he is out for 2 weeks  So then either i will do it myself either will look for someone to do it.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

It is definitely a good idea to give it to someone with enough soldering experience that this looks easy (how it looked to me).  That isn't saying I'm smarter than you or vice versa, it's just I have over a decade of soldering experience. 
  
 You may want to ask them to use similar methods to what I did in regards to using heat shrink and hot glue to prevent any possibility of a short.  However reading the instructions carefully and taking your time is much more important in the assembly of the mod.
  
 In my opinion this mod is 100% worth the risk.  If you know how a tube amp sounds, the change with this mod reminds me of comparing a SS amp to a tube amp. 
  
 The next thing I'd like to do to the ZXR is make all the op-amps replaceable.  If you look at the Creative supplied pictures I posted above you can see all the op-amps and it *IS* possible to put a DIP8 socket in the places of the SMD op-amps.
  

  
 Anyone interested?


----------



## NoOneLt

Hey guys, got my ZxR modded, still didn't plugged anything into it to try  Need to make measurements first, but it is already in my PC  Check it out 
 All respect and thanks go to germanium this was possible only with his help and the fact that he was so kind to answer all my noob questions  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 man!!!
  

  

  

  

  

  
 UPD: germanium found one wrong connection so i had to re-solder it, and now it not as neat as before, but i think it is still should do the job right. Uploaded pics from camera.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

It looks like 4 of the caps are connected to each other, are they?


----------



## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> It looks like all the caps are connected to each other on one end, are they?


 

 Yes that is ok as they are all going to ground. This was done so as to facilitate easier cap placement due to closeness of large CPU heat sink to sound card & should not negatively affect sound.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Ok, I couldn't tell what was going where on my phone, haha.
  
 It's looks like a great job with good use of heat shrink and hot glue.  Definitely let us know your impressions and are you going to be using just stereo or are you using 5.1?


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Hey germanium, you never did tell us the source of this mod.  You mentioned to me a few times about it, but I never found out where it started.  If you just Google "ZXR Mod" on my computer, the first hit is this thread and I don't see any other hits related so I am curious just where this did originate from.


----------



## germanium

ncsuzoso said:


> Hey germanium, you never did tell us the source of this mod.  You mentioned to me a few times about it, but I never found out where it started.  If you just Google "ZXR Mod" on my computer, the first hit is this thread and I don't see any other hits related so I am curious just where this did originate from.


 
 My own idea.
  
 Electricity usually takes the path of least resistance however in this case the load is shared through bass & lower midrange.as the impedance is still fairly close to each other however as you move up in frequency the metalized film takes more of the duty over as it's output impedance drops much faster than the electrolytic caps does.
  
 Electrolytics are far from a perfect cap. A perfect cap output impedance would drop to the point that at some frequency it would be like a superconductor. No Cap is perfect however all have some  inductance which restricts their high frequency potential. The point at which the capacitance meets inductance is what determines the resonant frequency of the cap. Virtually all caps resonate at some frequency & usually well above audio frequency. electrolytics also resonate but the have an odd property in that their resonance is highly damped. When something is damped it gives up energy I.E. it gets turned into heat. This tells me that something is getting lost & it may not be just heat It may just be signal that is lost as well, particularly soft sounds that form the background of the music.
  
 When one talks of the damping factor of an amplifier we are talking of controlling the driver by providing a means of braking. That means of breaking is by shorting the back electromotive force through the amps power supply. Guess what this uses some amplifier power to do & this power is given up in the form of heat. Same thing happens with electrolytics. This does not happen with metalized films to even near the same degree & consequently they will resonate quite a lot at their resonant frequency. This lack of internal damping in the metalized films allows them to pass all signals better below their resonant frequency & since their resonant frequency is very far above the audio range they pass the signal very well without adding anything.
  
  As you can see metalized films are pretty much the ideal cap for audio
  
 When used in the power supply they help maintain a low output impedance across all frequencies of interest. With transistor amps it is as important if not more important to maintain a power supply that has a low output impedance than it is to maintain rock solid voltage which is why most really good sounding power amps are still unregulated in the power supply. The best ones are regulated though. I'm just saying it is possible to have a good sounding amp without rock solid voltage regulation.
  
 The interesting thing is these mods work well in regulated amps as well as unregulated & can be placed either before or after the regulators & have the identical same effectiveness. Why these mods work is that the power supply is in the direct signal path & the sound effects are the same as replacing an electrolytic coupling cap with a metalized film one.
  
 The reason tube amps sound so good or at least part of it is that the power supply is largely outside of the signal path & is only supplying a constant current to the output tubes through the output transformer especially in a pure class a1 push/pull transformer coupled tube amp.
  
 These mods bring you much of this type sound the you get with tube amps to transistor amps without the tube problems of old like soggy sounding bass.
  
 This taken from a PM I sent someone else here


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I thought when the last capacitor was overlooked it was caught by someone else and that is what made me think it came from another source.  I am surprised you never mentioned it to me in our PMs, haha.
  
 Well here is a very, very late thank you for the best hardware mod I have ever done in my 10 years of modding.


----------



## NoOneLt

While talking to germanium i understood that he simply "feels" electricity and components, he knows how what impact it makes on sound...he knows what will happen after changing something here or there... I really envy someone who has that strong knowledge and passion.
  
 And i also want to say thanks one more time!


----------



## NoOneLt

First impressions that mod did removed some heights harshness from my T90  And it seems that stage got a bit wider.
  
 Can't tell anything more now, as i just enjoy the music right now


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Yea my sound became a lot more organic and warm after changing the op-amps and doing this mod.  Sound stage is much, much wider also.
  
 By the way, if you need any help on describing changes I always keep this bookmarked: HeadFi's "Describing Sound - A Glossary"


----------



## Kristijonas

Heya, so after hours of reading on all kinds of op-amps for ZXR, I still couldn't find a good match for myself. Are there any conclusive good suggestions for what op-amps I could take? Some details:
 I imagine I would like the sound sharp, crispy crystal, lows should be well-defined, not boomy (but with strength). The default ZXR sound is a little too muffled up and with too little contrast between sounds/levels. I'm sure long time users will understand what I mean?
 I am using 2 speakers through RCA. Will never use headphones with this card.
 My budget is limited, but I can still spend up to 50usd I suppose. So I guess no Muse'es for me. 
 I would also prefer being able to use the EM shield, but good sounding op-amps is a priority.
  
  
 Thank you very much for any suggestions! I really find it troublesome to decide myself on what to choose. It was fun reading it all for the first few hours, but on the 15th hour of reading into op-amps and peoples experiences with them I kinda got lost 

 Please feel free to advice on condesators if they are a worthy addition. I have no soldering experience but with those great schematics forum users here provided, it shouldn't be much of a problem for me to ask someone. Or perhaps I'll even risk doing it myself with a few online tutorials! 
  
 Sidenote: It would also be great to understand how op-amps and capacitors actually work in audio. Anything -really- easy to read? I have 0 electronics knowledge. Would love to get the bare minimum understanding.


----------



## shagrathborgir

"The caps in the red box need to be shorted underneath the board.
 The caps in the blue box are for the surround sound analog output section. These only need to be shorted if you are using 5.1 speakers with analog input."
  
 So,for this modd,you have to pull out every cap (de-solder) and shorted underneath the board,just like in the picture!
  
 "The caps in the green box need to be bypassed underneath with two 12uf metalized film caps each.
 The caps in the purple need to be bypassed with one 12uf metalized film cap each."
  
 I'm sorry,but I can't understand how is this done..I remove the caps from the green and purple boxex,but how do I solder the new ones?can you put some pictures please???
  
 thank you


----------



## shagrathborgir

kristijonas said:


> Heya, so after hours of reading on all kinds of op-amps for ZXR, I still couldn't find a good match for myself. Are there any conclusive good suggestions for what op-amps I could take? Some details:
> I imagine I would like the sound sharp, crispy crystal, lows should be well-defined, not boomy (but with strength). The default ZXR sound is a little too muffled up and with too little contrast between sounds/levels. I'm sure long time users will understand what I mean?
> I am using 2 speakers through RCA. Will never use headphones with this card.
> My budget is limited, but I can still spend up to 50usd I suppose. So I guess no Muse'es for me.
> ...


 
 http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/soundblaster_zxr_review,11.html
  
 have you read this??


----------



## raymond555

Hi guys.
 Just Installed Sparko's Labs discrete Opamp's SS3602 in my creative ZXR,and its amazing.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/728124/asus-stx-ii-vs-creative-zxr/75#post_11939172


----------



## soundsnice

Hello, I dont know anything about electronics but I need to try this. I dont know what the symbols in the schema on the first page mean (the green and purple symbols http://www.head-fi.org/t/705284/lightbox/post/10262742/id/1337168 ). It probably means that I need to couple the caps somehow and then solder them on to the PCB (looks like the caps on the pictures are soldered to eachother and then the ends of the coupled caps soldered on to the PCB ? ) ? Is there someone who could explain what the symbols mean ?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Stadtpirat

Nice new OP AMP.
 Sparko's Labs discrete Opamp's SS3602
  
@raymond555
 U say u use LT LT1028ACN8 with the SS3602.
 But i have the AD8597.
  
 http://datasheet.octopart.com/AD8599ARZ-Analog-Devices-datasheet-23752900.pdf
 http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/1028fc.pdf
  
 What do you think is better. LT1028ACN8 or AD8597 for the SS3602
  
 Thank you


----------



## raymond555

Hi
 LT1028ACN all the way!


----------



## Stadtpirat

Hi,
 thank you very mutch.
 now i can order:
 2x LT1028ACN
 2x SS3602
  
 I hope my Beyerdynamic T70 is good enough.
  
 Update:
 i replace the AD8597 with the LT1028ACN.
  
 i think the Sound is better with my T70.


----------



## JDThomsen

Hi,
  
 I'm going to be upgrading Op-Amps on my ZXR to 2xMUSES02 and 2xLT1028ACN (as both are available somewhat locally, and the SS3602 are a bit expensive), but I am a bit in doubt if LT1028ACN and LT1028ACN8 are the same, as I have seen both listed online?


----------



## Stadtpirat

ACN and ACN8 is the same:
  
 N8 PACKAGE
 8-LEAD PLASTIC DIP
  
 http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/1028fd.pdf


----------



## Waddymo

I want to do this - thanks for what you've posted here, very interesting. My only question for now is after shorting the caps as you've shown, what are you soldering the new caps to? The old shorted leads? This is what I have not been able to determine in reading about the Zxr cap mods.


----------



## NoOneLt

Shortening is needed only where it shown as shortening. Then just solder new caps "legs" to the old caps, germanium explained that new caps will override old one (i don't fully understand this but he is the man who understand how it flows) so just keep polarity in mind and solder new caps legs to old ones under the board.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

The caps we use for this mod aren't polarized, at least none of the caps anyone so far has used and posted about.
  
 Oh and look what I got to review from Burson Audio:
  

  
 I am seeing if they will send me out the 2nd stage also, (V5-OPA-S is what goes in the other socket).


----------



## NoOneLt

At least germanium told me to look at writings on caps and use it for choosing right "polarity" though it is not truly polarized.


----------



## Waddymo

I am only interested in upgrading the stereo fronts, not surround. Will I still need 7 caps or less because of that? Also, it appears Germanium (and yourself) doubled up on the caps for the fronts - it that so and why? Thanks!


----------



## germanium

bump


----------



## germanium

Didn't realize how old my thread is here. Almost three years old. A"out the polarity of the caps I used, yes these are nonpolarized but it is best to tie the outer foil to ground to reduce noise. No other reason than that. Direction of writing indicates outer foil, tail end of writing is the lead that is attached to outer foil.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Also good to note with caps like I used (ERSE PluseX), be careful with the leads because they can/will break off and you'll either have to solder the lead to the cap (like I did) or buy another one.

 I wanted to share my new review of the Burson Audio V5-OPA and V5i Series op-amps since this thread played a role in me being selected by Burson Audio.

 Wanted to give some credit to Germanium for opening the door for what is about to come. Soon you'll see a "ZoSo's SMD Op-Amp ZXR Tear Out" thread!
  
 For now here the review (still about 1/4 of it missing until I get replacement parts from Burson Audio):
  
https://zosoncsu.com/reviews/
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/burson-audio-supreme-sound-opamp-v5/reviews/17827
  

  
 The op-amps you see that are surface mount (circled in red and green), I will be changing those with BB OPA604AU's all around.
  

  
 (Every image/video you see used in my reviews/posts/website/forums are all taken by me and edited by me.)

 This is the video I am trying to expand on to create a video review. I would welcome any ideas on ways to use the written review + this type of analysis to make a full-length video review of an op-amp series.


----------



## NoOneLt

WOW, just WOW NCSUZoSo nicely done!


----------



## tonsing

i have one question to Germanium regarding shortening of caps:  is it harmfull for the card bypassing  with metalic caps without  without shortening of caps of front and surround ( green and red), what will the difference in sound.
 casava


----------



## germanium

tonsing said:


> i have one question to Germanium regarding shortening of caps:  is it harmfull for the card bypassing  with metalic caps without  without shortening of caps of front and surround ( green and red), what will the difference in sound.
> casava




Soundstage depth will shrink is the main difference.


----------



## SWalters

Does anyone happen to have a schematic for the ZXR?  I didn't see it posted anywhere here...


----------



## Elocai (Jun 6, 2017)

Hey, so can someone sum up what i have to do?

I will use my ZxR mostly for Headphone use.

1. Therefore I would only need to short the red caps right?

2. Would shorting the caps increase quality even without adding new caps?
And are there any Risks?

3. Then what about the caps, do i need all 5 (2x24uF and 3x12uF) or can I leave some out?(again only for Headphone use)

4. What are good parameters? is 24uf and 12uF the best thing to go, is 20uf and 10uf fine?Whats the lowest Voltage Rating I could use?


----------



## TOTONKA (Jun 2, 2017)

I've read through the whole post and haven't seen the question.
What if I only care about headphones. I game and use SBX mostly for COD and PUBG at the moment. I occasionally listen to music but only through my HD800s.
I have the Sparko's OP amps and a Darkvoice HP amp with some tubes I like.

If I truly only care about the headphone portion, I know I don't have to do all the shorts but can I delete some of the capacitors as well?

I've looked at this thread a few times over the last couple years and feel like this could be the last step to take my sound to another level to make kids cry more in games. :-D

OOPS! - After reading all 15 pages again, I see the previous post asked pretty much the same question.  Well, either way, a response would be appreciated.


----------



## Onik

NCSUZoSo said:


> Two other pictures:


does the Volts matter??


----------



## Onik

just ordered this https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/jb-jfx-series-polypropylene-capacitors.html, I will send updates soon about my CAP mod for ZXR


----------



## Onik

NCSUZoSo said:


> Also good to note with caps like I used (ERSE PluseX), be careful with the leads because they can/will break off and you'll either have to solder the lead to the cap (like I did) or buy another one.
> 
> I wanted to share my new review of the Burson Audio V5-OPA and V5i Series op-amps since this thread played a role in me being selected by Burson Audio.
> 
> ...




hi Mate is there any good Audio Analysing tool you know that I can use for ZXR??


----------



## Onik

NCSUZoSo said:


> Ok so here is my guide on how to do this with pictures:
> 
> 
> 1) Things Needed (for my way)
> ...






Hi did you use Flux to do the soldering??


----------



## Onik

germanium said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...





NCSUZoSo said:


> Source for affordable caps:
> 
> ERSE PEx 12uF 250V: http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/PEx250v/12uF-250-volt-Metallized-Polyester-Mylar-Film-Capacitor *($2.97/unit = $20.79 (For 5.1))*
> ERSE PulseX 12uF 250V: http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/PulseX250v/MPX25-03-12-00   (*$4.57/unit = $31.99 (For 5.1)*)
> ...



Hi mate if I use spdif cable for 5.1 speakers then is this mod still valid?


----------



## NCSUZoSo (Jan 5, 2018)

Probably not, this is mainly due to the I/V chain from the 1st and 2nd stage buffer and how that signal is routed. We would need to know when the SPIDF is pulled from the main signal. Is it before or after the op-amps. I would guess the main DSP chip takes care of this and the SPIDF never goes through the same hardware. This is just a "highly" educated guess.

See this picture from my first ever published review (lol)? The capacitors are exactly what we are bypassing. The SPIDF signal shouldn't need all this. Usually a SPIF connection only needs a few resistors and usually a large WIMA style capacitor.







Full Size: https://zosoncsu.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/zxr-signal-path-diagram.jpg?w=2720

https://hallmanlabs.com/reviews/bursonv5review/


----------



## Onik

My WD Case was really useful for this CAP MOD ,, now it fits perfectly and looks cool inside my damn case! 

Thanks again for this mod the sound is now crystal clear and real.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Hot glue really is one of the best ways to hold capacitors for long periods. They will never get hot enough to turn the glue soft so it is basically permanent unless you remove it yourself with a knife.

Good job and I am glad it worked out well for you! I am working on making a how to video on replacing the SMD op-amps both the 1st and 2nd stages for the Center/Sub and Rear L/Rear R op-amp locations. 

You can check my site for news on this, but it is on the backburner for now until I finish this massive discrete op-amp reviews using an ES9038Pro DAC w/ Modded Amanero for up to DSD512 native decoding, although it doesn't exist yet! Link is in my signature.

Let us know if you have any questions!


----------



## germanium

Been a while since I posted back here. I have since replaced this card with the Asus Strix Raid DLX using the same mods only I went & removed the electrolyitics as well & just used my metalized films that I had on the ZXR. Tried it both ways & like it without the electrolytics better. It even tests slightly better. It sound better than my friends Mytek Brooklyn DAC which is a 2,000 dollar DAC rated class A by Stereophile magazine. Better rendition of background reverb & better sense of depth in recording without resorting to tricks such as crosstalk cancellation or gundry dips in the 2-4KHz range. Still have not replaced any OPAMPS.

Glad to see your keeping this alive
. Thank you.


----------



## Onik

I received Bursons Cable + Pro from Bursons, but it doesn't seems to be working with my Sound Card and with Z906.

When I connect it I get Harsh noise from my Speakers mostly from the Left Speaker.

Anyone knows whats wrong with my setup??

and I get the following Voltage reading from RCA line out while its connected to ZXR.


----------



## germanium (Mar 17, 2018)

Onik said:


> I received Bursons Cable + Pro from Bursons, but it doesn't seems to be working with my Sound Card and with Z906.
> 
> When I connect it I get Harsh noise from my Speakers mostly from the Left Speaker.
> 
> ...



 Is that D.C. voltage? If it is then one of the capacitors may be shorted between the I/V converters & the buffer amp. If you did my mod then you have one cap with a bad short. In my mod if one cap is not shorted you will get the same results. They must be all shorted or all not shorted or you will run into this problem. Since the I/V converters out put + voltage to both the plus & - inputs of the buffer amp the 2 voltages cancel in the buffer amp but if one is not correctly shorted then no D.C. voltage cancelation occurs. Fix this problem quickly or you will damage other equipment.


----------



## Onik (Mar 17, 2018)

germanium said:


> Is that D.C. voltage? If it is then one of the capacitors may be shorted between the I/V converters & the buffer amp. If you did my mod then you have one cap with a bad short. In my mod if one cap is not shorted you will get the same results. They must be all shorted or all not shorted or you will run into this problem. Since the I/V converters out put both + &- voltage the 2 voltages cancel in the buffer amp but if one is not correctly shorted then no D.C. voltage cancelation occurs. Fix this problem quickly or you will damage other equipment.



I just desoldered again All the Caps and now my ZXR is working in default mode(no more mods), but still the same result with Bursons Cable+ pro RCA to RCA cable but it works fine with the standard RCA to RCA cable.

I assume its a compatible issue with Z906 internal AMP, but with my SB X7 it just works fine, hell knows whats wrong with ZXR with Z906.


----------



## germanium

Onik said:


> I just desoldered again All the Caps and now my ZXR is working in default mode(no more mods), but still the same result with Bursons Cable+ pro RCA to RCA cable but it works fine with the standard RCA to RCA cable.
> 
> I assume its a compatible issue with Z906 internal AMP, but with my SB X7 it just works fine, hell knows whats wrong with ZXR with Z906.


Problem is with the Z906 then not the ZXR.


Onik said:


> I just desoldered again All the Caps and now my ZXR is working in default mode(no more mods), but still the same result with Bursons Cable+ pro RCA to RCA cable but it works fine with the standard RCA to RCA cable.
> 
> I assume its a compatible issue with Z906 internal AMP, but with my SB X7 it just works fine, hell knows whats wrong with ZXR with Z906.


 

Weird.


----------



## Onik (Mar 17, 2018)

germanium said:


> Problem is with the Z906 then not the ZXR.
> 
> 
> 
> Weird.



I think the issue is only with Z906 not really with ZXR, I hear some unusual noise from z906 even there is no input to to cable+ pro. so its definitely internal amp causing the issue. I wish I had other speakers to test cable+ pro right now.

Whats the best way to test Cable + pro RCA to RCA do you know?


----------



## germanium (Mar 17, 2018)

Onik said:


> I think the issue is only with Z906 not really with ZXR, I hear some unusual noise from z906 even there is no input to to cable+ pro. so its definitely internal amp causing the issue. I wish I had other speakers to test cable+ pro right now.
> 
> Whats the best way to test Cable + pro RCA to RCA do you know?



Unless it is an active cable which means it has an amplifier built in & a power connection  it can't be the cable doing this. this is a very highly unlikely situation. What is highly likely is you have a failed coupling capacitor in the Z906. Failed as in shorted internally allowing D.C. to escape from it's input jack.

Just looked at the Burson's  cable + It is an active cable that takes D.C. from a USB connection in the cable itself.So the cable could in fact be at fault.

If you have a multimeter you can plug the cable into it's USB cable & measure the D.C. coming out of the cable without the cable being connected to anything else. It there is more than a few millivolts coming out of the cable the cable is junk. Throw it away. I take that back send it back to burson's & try to get your money back. You shouldn't need an active cable to drive relatively short runs of cable. Active cables are really only useful for really long runs of cable & even then is questionable with most computer based systems as computers already have a faily low output impedance which can drive long cables with ease.


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## Onik (Mar 18, 2018)

I tested the RCA outputs of Cable + pro again without being connected to anything, and this is what I get reading on my MM:

Right RCA OUTPUT Voltage:


Left RCA OUTPUT Voltage:


guess you are right this cable came faulty. Even if I don't connect it to anything it's still gives me harsh noise on my speakers, and then when I connect it to SB X7 I hear constant white noise on the Left speaker, It's from the very first day I plugged in this cable to my SB X7 to Z906.

I didnt buy it was a review sample from SS AUDIO.

I mailed Charles still waiting for his response.


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## germanium (Mar 19, 2018)

Wow!!!!! This is definitely what you can call a snake oil product. One should never need an amplified cable for the short runs they are displaying on their website. What I do is always make my own very low capacitance cables which are very low loss even with standard home audio components that have high output impedance.

Been doing this for 30 years & it always provides the best sound. These cables are just a loosely twisted pair soldered to RCA jack. They are very easy to make. No shielding is needed in most cases I found. Shielding only adds capacitance & does not seem to do anything to help with RF interference. I found that RF interference more often than not sneaks in through the back door as in through the speaker cable. Most amps already have adequate input RF interference protection. How it sneaks in through the back door is through interaction with the negative feedback loop which often has no protection. Since negative feedback has a very small delay it can at audio frequencies provide correction for audio frequency distortions but as you go above audio frequencies the feedback gets out of sync with the rest of the amp & can instead of reducing gain start amplifying at very high frequencies. They do provide frequency compensation that reduces this effect but this reduces feedback so the amp doesn't go fruitcake on you but there is still enough there to interact with RF in a bad way.


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## germanium (Mar 20, 2018)

Another problem I see is the placement of the inline amp close to the driven device as opposed to close to the source. Many dedicated sources have high output impedance. The longer the cable before reaching the amp the greater the loss due to capacitance. placing the inline amp closer to the source makes more sense as the inline amp can provide the lower source impedance to drive the driven device as a result it would be less sensitive to capacitance in the long section of the cable than having the long section before the inline amp.

Granted with relative short cables they are selling it is still largely a moot point unless the output impedance of the source is greater than 1Kohm. These high impedances can happen with passive preamps so low capacitance cabling is an absolute must unless you use an amplified cable but most people using passive preamps are trying to avoid using more amp stages so an inline amp in most cases for them is anathema. The cabling I make for myself usually comes in at less than 100 picofarads/meter. Most commercially available cabling come in at between 250-350 picofarads/meter. ​


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## Onik (Oct 14, 2019)

.


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## Onik

I think the the cable+ pro works with my X7 quite well when I use it as a preamp, but still on Z906 I hear some white noise on the left speaker, but the noise disappear when I start playing music LOL


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## Onik

MadKid said:


> Managed to get the mod done last night and after enjoyed to some music I would like to share the mod
> 
> 
> 
> ...



are you using some kind of custom Voltage regulator??


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## Onik

Can I replace series capacitor in the place of a single capacitor or 50uf instead of 47uf?? 

Also as the voltage added is it gonna be a problem for performance?


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## germanium (Apr 26, 2018)

oops


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## germanium

Onik said:


> Can I replace series capacitor in the place of a single capacitor or 50uf instead of 47uf??
> 
> Also as the voltage added is it gonna be a problem for performance?



Not recommended. you lose 1/2 capacitance by doing so as well as half voltage in each capacitor mean you get much lower energy storage because energy stored goes by the square of the voltage. Much better to use a single capacitor. I would only use series capacitor in a super high voltage power supply where there is no capacitor with a high enough voltage rating to accept the full voltage of the power supply. In this case a pair of balancing resistors must be used to keep the leakage voltage from over charging the second cap. otherwise you may be in for an explosive surprise. This type of circuit is only needed for voltages in excess of 500-550 volts as it is very hard to come by Electrolytics in excess of these voltage ratings


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## Onik

germanium said:


> Not recommended. you lose 1/2 capacitance by doing so as well as half voltage in each capacitor mean you get much lower energy storage because energy stored goes by the square of the voltage. Much better to use a single capacitor. I would only use series capacitor in a super high voltage power supply where there is no capacitor with a high enough voltage rating to accept the full voltage of the power supply. In this case a pair of balancing resistors must be used to keep the leakage voltage from over charging the second cap. otherwise you may be in for an explosive surprise. This type of circuit is only needed for voltages in excess of 500-550 volts as it is very hard to come by Electrolytics in excess of these voltage ratings



I had no intention to use series caps instead of single,but by mistake ordered only 2 47uf(16v) simic ii, where I had to get 4 for ZXR, but I have few spare of similic 220uf(16v) and while adding 4 in series makes it 55uf(64v) which is close to 47uf and also I read from a website that having few uf difference will not be a big performance issues but maybe they were wrong.

I decided to reorder 2 more 47uf.


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## germanium (Apr 26, 2018)

Onik said:


> I had no intention to use series caps instead of single,but by mistake ordered only 2 47uf(16v) simic ii, where I had to get 4 for ZXR, but I have few spare of similic 220uf(16v) and while adding 4 in series makes it 55uf(64v) which is close to 47uf and also I read from a website that having few uf difference will not be a big performance issues but maybe they were wrong.
> 
> I decided to reorder 2 more 47uf.



Sorry. The way it was worded made me think that's what you were asking. You will not however get 64 volts by having 4 in series. 4 in series would be still 12 volts. 12 volts divided by 4 which equals 3 volt on each capacitor. 12 volts is the rail you are working from so can not  be higher than that plus none of the circuitry can handle 64 volts on the ZXR card. 64 volts would be the max potential voltage provided the circuit actual operated that high but it doesn't. You would definitely need balance resistors if it did.Series connections also increases electrical series resistance & as such will have poorer ability to sink noise from the power supply. You are correct that the equivalent capacitance would be 55uf with 4-220uf caps in series. You should just use the 220uf caps singly to get best performance in analog section. If it is in the analog  power supply having more capacitance than stock is not critical generally though some digital circuits may protest if the size & type are both altered. 

Digital circuits often need very low ESR at high frequencies in order to function correctly. Higher capacitance generally hurts high frequency ESR so could be bad for digital circuits.  When I modify these cards I leave the digital side alone. I only work with the analog side in order to keep from messing up how the digital side works as the manufacturers have that worked out really well.


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## Onik (Oct 14, 2019)

.


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## Onik (Oct 14, 2019)

.


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## carfabian

Hello first of all greetings and congratulations to all for this mod

I have 1 question I can use jantzen audio capacitor
7 x Jantzen Superior Z-Cap MKP 800 VDC 12 uF

my question is if I can use vdc 800 instead of 250vdc?


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## Random-Guy-UK (Jan 31, 2020)

.


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## NCSUZoSo (Jun 26, 2020)

Hello to everyone! It has been years since I last posted in this thread, but I keep getting messages on how to upgrade those SMD op-amps to full-size (as I mentioned as possible).

Well, I happened to have made a video, showing me doing that modification. It wasn't on a ZXr though, it's for a SMSL sAp-10 balanced headphone amp. However, *it is still a SOIC-8 op-amp that I upgraded to DIP-8* and I think it will help anyone trying to do it. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. My email can be found on the site in the contact section.

https://hallmanlabs.com/2019/09/08/...ts-to-full-size-op-amps-and-capacitors-shown/

Full disclosure: If you don't understand SMD soldering, you will ruin the card. The SOIC-8 pads are very sensitive to heat (if you apply over 450F for more than a few seconds, you'll lift/ruin the pads) and the op-amps are not designed to be removed, however *it can be done *(as you can see in the video above). 

I *definitely* recommend using *ChipQuik**. *With that, you can easily remove the ICs from the pads, without risk of pulling a pad/trace from the board. You can see that I try desoldering wick first (in the vid), but it's just not enough. The only thing about ChipQuik is it can make a mess, if you aren't careful with how you apply it. This is due to the fact it stays molten for so long and can run along the board to other parts, so be careful with it.


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## Razork




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## Razork




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## Dartin Bout

Razork said:


>


Hi,
How are you affixing the opamps to the card. Is this just a hot glue gun?


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## Razork

Yes


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## ray555

my opinion is that the ZXR is the best PCIE soundcard...well above the new AE9...
here my quick impression on how both compared:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sb-ae-9-vs-x7-and-pci-e-vs-usb-in-general.942722/

post #8


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## Razork

Another upgrade performed. All smd amplifiers replaced by dip-8. Really incredible sound that is coming out.


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## ray555 (Oct 16, 2020)

Does anyone know what's the difference between the green and the gold caps used in the zxr? Early revision adopted gold ones while new ones adopt green.


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## automattic

Greetings, I have done this mood on my ZXR and it sounds fantastic. I'm looking to get a x7 for a more modular choice and not need a PCI-e devices. Is a similar mod possible on the sound blaster x7?


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## selvakumar

please post some pic


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## selvakumar

im gona replace all the caps with exact same model since my sound card is being used for almost 8 years now how about the esr value will it be reduced after long use


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