# NEWS: Apple acquires Beats for $3 Billion (Update: Full interview on recode.net)



## thievesarmy

oh boy... http://techcrunch.com/2014/05/08/apple-in-talks-to-acquire-beats-for-3-2-billion-says-ft/


 


Courtesy of TechCrunch via Financial Times


 






> _This could be Apple’s largest acquisition to date. According to the Financial Times, Apple is about to close the acquisition of Beats Electronics. Beats is the maker of the popular Beats headphones, as well as the music service called Beats Music._
> 
> 
> 
> ...






 


2 of the sites most BELOVED brands coming together… I actually like Apple, but am kinda surprised to see them interested in Beats for more than their streaming service. Will be interesting to see what comes of this.


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## Netforce

Can't say I saw that coming, if this goes through and they start implementing iphones with silly beats stuff on it then I shall not touch a iphone any time in the future.


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## AUDIOBREEDER

netforce said:


> Can't say I saw that coming, if this goes through and they start implementing iphones with silly beats stuff on it then I shall not touch a iphone any time in the future.


 
 Well if this happens I can actually spend time with a beats IEM/headphone as I've never heard one outside of Best Buy.


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## cat6man

and the WSJ article on line says that this is apple's move to complement current lower-fi earbuds with (sit down, prepare yourself) 'high-end headphones'
  
 snobs'r'us


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## kurochin

I think it's more to do with the Beats music streaming service, and possibly patents if Beats has any. Apple is technically a bigger brand than Beats in terms of media exposure anyway, so I doubt they'd acquire Beats for the branding.
  
 Funny though. I've often branded Apple's biggest hardware competitor, Samsung, as having no taste - copying hardware designs, TouchWizz UI, Swarovski studded handsets, articicially boosted benchmarks - but Apple devices having "Beats by Dre" branding on the back would bring testelessness to a whole new level. Shame really, because I like the iOS app ecosystem and can't see myself getting the same quality apps from Android.
  
 I truly hope this acquisition is to eliminate a competing music service and acquire whatever might have been of engineering value, effectively killing Beats as a brand in the process. The Beats founders will cash out, I'll remain on iOS, and we all won't have to see the Beats logo ever again. Wishful thinking.
  
 Edit:
 The more I think about this, the more it just doesn't make sense for Apple. It's definitely not about the branding. It's definitely not about the technology as Apple could design higher quality accessories in-house if they wanted to, and it doesn't even make much sense for the music streaming (especially for the price of 3.2 billion) since Apple's iTunes Radio already has their own lucrative streaming deals in place. Then again, I'm no analyst.


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## JIMINITRO

You know, I have been thinking about this too and I agree on two of your points but I think they are doing it for the style. I feel like apple may be worried they will lose their image the longer they go without Steve at the helm. I feel like if they start including really fancy looking earbuds and package selling Iphones with different level headphones (Think good, better, best) at different price points. I feel like they would pull more people in then they would lose. Lets not kid ourselves Beats is extremely popular in main stream and so is the Iphone. If they could attract more people, charge more for having nicer headphones included on certain models, and kill a competitive streaming service in one swoop.....That 3.2 Billion may pay for itself in no time.


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## Currawong

I think that assuming Apple will do anything obvious is a bad idea. This happens because they don't give any hints about what their plans are, which are very often _not_ what people expect when it comes to new markets. If they are going to buy them, then they have something in mind far more interesting than just buy-and-label-in-store.


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## KimLaroux

I also find this news too ridiculous to be true. It seems like professional trolling and nothing else.
  
 It's like "Omgz the two most hyped tech companies, I haz to make a troll news article about one buying the other. Fanbois are gonna droooooolllll."


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## Bansaku

Noooooooooooooooooooooo!


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## thievesarmy

kimlaroux said:


> I also find this news too ridiculous to be true. It seems like professional trolling and nothing else.
> 
> It's like "Omgz the two most hyped tech companies, I haz to make a troll news article about one buying the other. Fanbois are gonna droooooolllll."


 
  
 You don't believe an article that is being widely reported on numerous legit sites?? Oooooookay


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## Vloeibaarglas

Apple just wants the branding.
  
 They can hire some of the best audio engineers out there. Apple is not a company that will tolerate their product being second tier, ie making headphones that are clearly outclassed by Senn, AT, Beyer, AKG, etc.
  
 Prepare for some really expensive and really nice headphones.


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## Koolpep

currawong said:


> I think that assuming Apple will do anything obvious is a bad idea. This happens because they don't give any hints about what their plans are, which are very often _not_ what people expect when it comes to new markets. If they are going to buy them, then they have something in mind far more interesting than just buy-and-label-in-store.


 
  
 This.
  
 And the general perception problem for established brands. Kids don't want to be on Facebook anymore since their whole family, parents, aunts anreven grand parents hang out there. If there is one thing I can remember from my long gone pubertal times, it's not being where the older generation is.
  
 Apple loves music - they very often iterated that and the great audio quality of their hardware (maybe except the EarPods) are testament to it. How beats (and IF that is true) fits in there, well... I don't know yet, but I am sure Apple won't splash out serious money like this without a very good plan.
  
 However since Apple sells beats products in their stores, they have a very good insight about the products itself (and the recent quality improvements they made) and the sales/return/warranty figures.
  
 Only Apple knows.


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## ToddTheMetalGod

Perhaps this is possibility for improvement, or perhaps they won't change a thing and just rake in profit.


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## Koolpep

vloeibaarglas said:


> Apple just wants the branding.
> 
> They can hire some of the best audio engineers out there. Apple is not a company that will tolerate their product being second tier, ie making headphones that are clearly outclassed by Senn, AT, Beyer, AKG, etc.
> 
> Prepare for some really expensive and really nice headphones.


 
  
 Hmm, but that's what I don't understand, since the original iPod their headphones were outclassed pretty much from the start for the last 13 years. Even the aftermarket ones, the Apple in-ears. The EarPods and the in-ears are both ok, though not really great and you could find better sounding headphones for less. In the Apple online store both headphones have a 4 and 3 star rating by customers...on Amazon a 3.5 star rating.


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## Lukalop

netforce said:


> Can't say I saw that coming, if this goes through and they start implementing iphones with silly beats stuff on it then I shall not touch a iphone any time in the future.




Ditto


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## cat6man

toddthemetalgod said:


> Perhaps this is possibility for improvement, or perhaps they won't change a thing and just rake in profit.


 
  
 according to the NYT this morning, mfr cost of Beats is as low as $16 (cheapest model i assume)


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## VAF Research

currawong said:


> I think that assuming Apple will do anything obvious is a bad idea. This happens because they don't give any hints about what their plans are, which are very often _not_ what people expect when it comes to new markets. If they are going to buy them, then they have something in mind far more interesting than just buy-and-label-in-store.


 

 I think that's an excellent call. If any of us could guess what Apple were up to we'd be worth our weight in gold. Apple "own" the pocket (go with me here) and their next biggest competitor is Samsung, who have a much broader reach in terms of TV, lounge room etc. Beats happen to have a number of clever products/patents in small transducers that could be used in lap-tops (already are?) or even TVs. Jiminitro has also made an insightful comment - the obvious defensive strategy is to buy an competition and maintain share.
  
 If it goes ahead you can be sure there is a lot of mental horsepower behind the decision.


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## GloryUprising

Well if they get Jimmy Iovine in the deal, I think its actually a good move for Apple in terms of future negotiations with recording labels.  Benefits both traditional iTunes and future streaming services.
  
....damn never thought I'd see the day then I'd use "iTunes" with the term "traditional"....
  
#supportyourlocalrecordstores!!!
  
EDIT: Not sure the branding angle works either; Apple is already a master at branding already and historically Beats branding doesn't mean much.... Just ask HTC. =p


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## Mediahound

Apple knows what they are doing. They see the Beats music streaming service as competiion; makes sense to buy Beats before that barely even gets a foot hold. 

Hopefully they'll kill off the headphones.


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## ToddTheMetalGod

cat6man said:


> according to the NYT this morning, mfr cost of Beats is as low as $16 (cheapest model i assume)


 
 I knew it was low, but that is just sickening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Well then, hopefully Apple will make new models that actually take advantage of the sound quality potential of such a high price point and great marketing schemes.


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## Ruppin

As a serious Apple user, and long time shareholder, I am so distressed by this acquisition that I was motivated to post after having been inactive on Head-Fi for about 6 years. Hi Friends, I'm back.
  
 Apple is paying too much for too little. Apple has made money with style, but it was almost always quality and ease of use first, and glitz second. Cook is a marketing guy, under pressure to do something with the company and justify his CEOishness. There is nothing more dangerous than a CEO looking to justify his existence. Remember the worst corporate acquisitions of all time (although admittedly larger than this one): Compaq, AOL. To those who have speculated on the value of the streaming service, I doubt that Apple either could not design a better one, or acquire a better one.
  
 Just one added thought: does one refer to Beats as "anti-intellectual property."


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## kurochin

ruppin said:


> There is nothing more dangerous than a CEO looking to justify his existence.


 
  
 Beats by Dr. Cook =P
  
 Joking aside, I actually prefer the post-Jobs Apple. More sensibility, less sensationalism.... at least until this Beats deal.


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## imackler

I wonder if this is some a move toward a Beats-branded, voice-controlled, music-streaming, bluetooth, smart-headphone synced with the iphone in your pocket.


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## phillkillv2

Yay, now Apple will toss more money into their marketing plans and shove the Beats brand down our throats even further.


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## mcandmar

currawong said:


> I think that assuming Apple will do anything obvious is a bad idea. This happens because they don't give any hints about what their plans are, which are very often _not_ what people expect when it comes to new markets. If they are going to buy them, then they have something in mind far more interesting than just buy-and-label-in-store.


 
  
 Hopefully to liquidate and stomp them out of existence and then re purpose their manufacturing facilities and design team to make fancy big apple ear muffs.


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## wink

Beats me why this is going down...............


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## AustinListens

I don't really see the problem with this. Tons of HTC phones have been using Beats Audio and have been good phones, and any audiophile looking for clear sound isn't going to be listening on their iPhone, they're going to have a Zune HD or even something like the RoCoo P. And honestly, this is probably just more for Beats Music than hardware.


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## JIMINITRO

kimlaroux said:


> I also find this news too ridiculous to be true. It seems like professional trolling and nothing else.
> 
> It's like "Omgz the two most hyped tech companies, I haz to make a troll news article about one buying the other. Fanbois are gonna droooooolllll."


 
 Well, I guess the fanboys can start drooling. GSM Arena and others are reporting it's done.


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## HiFiAudio

Reference:
Apple In Talks To Buy Beats - AudioStream
  


> The Financial Times has reported that Apple is in talks to buy Beats Electronics for $3.2 billion as early as next week (see report). As the article points out:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 
Remember we had that earlier rumor about Apple possibly allowing you to purchase High Resolution audio download in a couple of months, this could be the keystone to that move.


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## thievesarmy

ruppin said:


> As a serious Apple user, and long time shareholder, I am so distressed by this acquisition that I was motivated to post after having been inactive on Head-Fi for about 6 years. Hi Friends, I'm back.
> 
> Apple is paying too much for too little. Apple has made money with style, but it was almost always quality and ease of use first, and glitz second. Cook is a marketing guy, under pressure to do something with the company and justify his CEOishness. There is nothing more dangerous than a CEO looking to justify his existence. Remember the worst corporate acquisitions of all time (although admittedly larger than this one): Compaq, AOL. To those who have speculated on the value of the streaming service, I doubt that Apple either could not design a better one, or acquire a better one.
> 
> Just one added thought: does one refer to Beats as "anti-intellectual property."


 
  
 I agree… on the surface I also don't like the deal, and I think they could have created a better streaming service on their own. However, like Currawong stated, their real motives here may not be obvious. They already acqui-hired LaLa and when that went down everyone thought they would use that as their new streaming service, but I believe all the engineers / devs from Lala were reassigned to a completely different project, and they killed the Lala service entirely. At least, that's how I recall it happening, but maybe I'm wrong.


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## Ruppin

I wonder if the price being mentioned isn't just a teensy weensie bit high for all the talent and products at Beat put together. That whooshing noise is the sound of the average IQ of Apple's target customer plummeting. There might be enough bass in the sound that you might be able to hear it on Beat headphones.


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## HiFiAudio

I keep thinking of that other comment from AudioStream text above:
  


> How does Apple differentiate its huge stockpile of Mastered for iTunes music downloads? By offering them in high res. And how do we enjoy these better quality versions? With a new pair of Beats headphones.


 
 Apple has more or less painted themselves into a bleak business corner with iPod/iTunes marketplace, people have bought large amount of tunes in the past and are somewhat satisfied with what they presently own.  But just like the video industry turned everything around by going from SD to HD, its possible that the tandem of buying/marketing the Beats Music with higher resolution audio service and the sales of associated Beats headphones in their Apple Stores could jumpstart personal audio sales.   Everyone in this audio related business would benefit, regardless of what we think of Beats Headphones in general.


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## thievesarmy

LOL - was just browsing Huffpost and saw this headline:
  
*Face The Music: Beats By Dre Headphones Are 'Extraordinarily Bad'*
  
 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/09/beats-headphones-reviews_n_5294628.html
  
 Tyll is quoted in the article.


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## Byronb

If Apple had any desire to make a Head-Fi quality headphone they could afford to buy just about any of the existing highly regarded companies. This is a money play, plain and simple!


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## scrypt

Since I tend not to care about stock earphones, I'll feel even less sentimental about tossing cartoonish eighth notes back into the box with cellophane unopened, knowing their notation-inspired design was created by and for someone who probably can't read music.
  
 What worries me more is the possibility that Apple's semi-flat but malleable sonic aesthetic will be overshadowed in every default setting and initial sound option by a _fun_ signature consisting of a cavernous car radio soundstage, submarine-hits-bottom lows and drooping Claes-Oldenburg-butter-knife highs.  
  
Apple computers (and even iPads with the camera kit, external ADC and mic pres) are typically used by musicians for recording.  For that reason, a partnership with Sennheiser would have been ideal for consumers _and_ pros, but I can't think of a less reference-unfriendly headphone than the Beats Studio.  You have to be able to hear the nude signal in all its unappetizing glory to begin to know what to fix.
  
 I can see it now -- a mass migration to Cubase on PCs.
  
 BTW:  I'm not questioning the intelligence or taste of people who like Beats. I'm merely frothing over the possibility of having my primary audio tool blunted (as it were -- hello, _Fellini Satyricon_).


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## CantScareMe

This is actually really big news for the audio world. Wow.
  
 I guess you can say that both apple and beats support the 'style over substance' methodology, so in that sense it's not surprising. 
  
 But yea, still surprised by this.


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## thievesarmy

It's a money play regardless, but I'm sure they're more interested in the Beats streaming service than the headphones. 
  
 Actually, I wonder if this had more to do with the licenses that Beats had already negotiated w/ the lables & publishers. It's not a secret in the music industry that the labels aren't happy with the deal they struck w/ Apple originally to have their music on the iTunes music store. At the time the labels had a very weak position and they struck a deal that is VERY favorable to Apple, that they have been trying to restructure for awhile (to little avail). For Apple to go to them to work out a new deal for their streaming service, they would certainly not give them such favorable terms this time, at least not without renegotiating the original iTunes store deal first. So this purchase may have been a way for Apple to circumvent a new negotiation w/ the labels and obtained more favorable licensing terms than they could have on their own, PLUS a ready-built streaming service that they can re-brand or tweak as needed (not to mention a very profitable headphone company) to boot.
  
 Hmmmm…


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## CantScareMe

Maybe that then. The headphones or the brand just can't be the only factors not least as it's over $3billion.
  
 Time will tell, but apple aren't stupid. Well, they're famously shrewd rather, so there's got to be solid reasons behind it. 
  
  
 Looks like a headfier has had his say on the matter:
 http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2014/05/09/why-apple-has-lost-the-plot-with-3-2-billion-purchase-of-beats-by-dre/


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## styler

definitely not a beats fan but the acquisition makes sense to me. it brings a huge demographic to apple and gives apple wireless headphones which will be a big selling point. headfiers know that beats suck but the masses like their products and they aren't necessarily apple customers... yet. apple also gets a streaming service that is already successful and taps into 12-17yo age segment in a big way. also, don't forget that beats were originally Monster and got most of the Monster intellectual property when they went out on their own. HOPEFULLY, apple ups the quality and though i won't be buying anything beats related, millions of others will.


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## thievesarmy

if by 'successful' you mean profitable, I don't think it is yet. In fact, I don't think any of the streaming services have yet turned a profit, including Spotify which is the big boy in the field. I always assumed the streaming service was a good loss-leader for Beats, something they could bundle / market w/ their headphones and through that could EVENTUALLY become profitable itself, but that's yet to be seen.


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## thievesarmy

from Hypebot: http://hypebot.com/hypebot/2014/02/-spotify-pandora-and-other-streaming-music-services-will-never-be-profitable-says-study.html
  


> _Subscription music services like Spotify and Pandora are on track to double by 2017, according to a new study, but they will never turn a profit. The barrier to profitability for steaming music, according to the analysis, is the 60-70% of revenue each service pays to labels, publishers and artists. _
> 
> _So to survive, says the study, music strreamers likely need to be sold to a deep pocketed partner…Brights spots include bundling with other services (like AT&T and Beats) and selling value added services to consumers. "Services like iTunes Match and Google and Amazon are already heading in this direction," the research stated._


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## HiFiAudio

Time has another thought:
  


> One possible explanation for Apple’s interest in Beats might be the booming “wearable computing” space. After all, Beats’ signature product is the high-bass headphone unit. If Apple can incorporate the Beats product into its wearable computing system — think Internet connected headphones — then the deal could pose a threat to Google, Facebook, and other companies that are forging ahead on smart glasses and watches.


 
  
 Then if one looks at a earlier article
Four Trends from CES 2014​

Connected Car (Apple)
Premium Audio  (Beats Electronics Headphones)
High Resolution Audio (Beat Music streaming, licenses, iTunes as another entry point for sales)
Wearables (Apple and possible Beats Electronics products merging)
  
 Looks like a decent alignment.
  
 From that article


> A consistent bright spot in audio has been premium headphones, which accounts for 40% of the $2 billion U.S. headphones market. U.S. unit sales of headphones priced above $100 exploded 96% between Nov. 24 and Dec. 21, thanks to aggressive promotions by Beats Electronics and Bose, the two companies that dominate this segment, according to NPD Group. For the first 11 months of 2013, unit sales grew 37% versus the same period a year earlier.


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## thatBeatsguy

Read an article on this yesterday. Both Beats and Apple are the two most ludicrous companies in the entire world, and now they're looking to merge. We're looking at a catastrophe unlike anything we've ever seen. Hopefully Apple will do the right thing...but they haven't been doing anything right since Cook was on the throne. They're really changing it up this time:

Release date of the iPhone 6 *moved back* to August.
iPhone 6 has a *4.7"* screen
Apple allegedly *losing grip* on the music industry
  
 That just doesn't seem very orthodox for Apple. They look like they're beginning to crumble from the looks of it. Who knows, they might end up as a regular giant like Samsung and not the premium company with lavishly overpriced products.


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## Mediahound

thatbeatsguy said:


> Read an article on this yesterday. Both Beats and Apple are the two most ludicrous companies in the entire world, and now they're looking to merge. We're looking at a catastrophe unlike anything we've ever seen. Hopefully Apple will do the right thing...but they haven't been doing anything right since Cook was on the throne. They're really changing it up this time:
> 
> Release date of the iPhone 6 *moved back* to August.
> iPhone 6 has a *4.7"* screen
> ...




Wrong thread, Lucacris headphones are called Soul.


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## thatBeatsguy

mediahound said:


> Wrong thread, Lucacris headphones are called Soul.


 
 No, *Ludacris* headphones are called Soul.


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## ouchia

I'm assuming Beats has the patent on some kind of compression algorithm for "high-def" streaming.  Since apple is already going 24/96 (rumored) this would make a whole lot of sense.  That or I'm hoping that there is some kind of compression algorithm there that will either ease apple's distribution of those new high def files, or something along those lines.  If this has anything to do with hardware someone needs to to get fired.


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## thievesarmy

thatbeatsguy said:


> Read an article on this yesterday. Both Beats and Apple are the two most ludicrous companies in the entire world, and now they're looking to merge. We're looking at a catastrophe unlike anything we've ever seen. Hopefully Apple will do the right thing...but they haven't been doing anything right since Cook was on the throne. They're really changing it up this time:
> 
> Release date of the iPhone 6 *moved back* to August.
> iPhone 6 has a *4.7"* screen
> ...


 
  
 so, why would this be a catastrophe exactly? And what is this "right thing" that you hope Apple will do?
  
 LOL @ "allegedly *lo**sing grip*" on the music industry… you mean the music industry that has been in steady decline over the last decade, hemorrhaging profits & consistently downsizing? Why would losing their grip on that concern them when they're in an completely different (and profitable) business? Besides, I believe the iTunes store has always been a loss-leader for them, so its debatable that they ever had a "grip" on the music industry. Its something they run because their consumers like the convenience, and it helps sell their phones, tablets & computers - THAT is where they make their money.
  
 Also, they're not merging, Apple is outright buying them. How exactly do they "look like they're beginning to crumble" ? They have more cash on hand then any company in the world, and more than most countries as well. While this would be their largest acquisition to date, it's barely going to make a dent in their short-term financial picture, and Apple remains insanely profitable on their own, altho I'm sure the masses will continue buying Beats which will only contribute further to Apple's insane profits. 
  
 And god forbid they launch the iPhone 6 in…AUGUST!!! THE HORROR… THE HORROR!


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## Hawaiibadboy

View from Japan here...
  
  
 I run my own English School and I thought I'd add my 2 cents. 
 I teach Japanese kids and adults.
  
 RE: Apple
  
 Many adults own and bring their ipad or ipad mini to class. I have yet to see any other brand. Does Sony make a tablet?  I wouldn't know. I have never seen one in person.
  
 Most electronic stores that sell Apple goods have them front and center. I had to go looking for Sony HD walkmen that I saw on here. They were dust covered and off to the right and back. Plastic dummy demos. The Apple are on and can be interacted with.
 Apple is doing just fine over here in Japan....Sony would love it's piece of the pie back.
  
 A Junior High school girl? Pretty much the trend driving clique over here. It's like a right of passage to graduate from a family contract galaxy phone to a iphone 5. Custom cover...man...they are on cloud 9!
  
 Beats??
  

  

  
 My DJ friends use Pioneer at work but rock Beats when they go out. They say it's portable and looks cool. It's about image and that's not a problem.
  
 Apple and Beats...doing just fine over here. Together? Seems like an epic idea if executed right.


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## kramer5150

My macbook Pro has been bomb-proof reliable over 3+ years, and my iPhone has likewise been just as reliable.  Its an added bonus that they also sound good with most of my headphones.     I think Apple has always catered to musicians and "the arts" (for lack of a better term).  I can't imagine them de-emphasizing this market segment, and abandoning sonic fidelity and durability / reliability.  Even despite how _*horrid Beats are across the board in every way.*_
  
 I have found the latest design EarPods OEM earbuds to be very good sounding and extremely durable too, as I bounce back and forth between them and my KSC75 and SR60i.  Hopefully Apple will continue along this path in the consumer market arena with Beats.  That whole Dre-Beats versus Monster fia$co a few years ago still leaves me with a negative impression of both.  Its going to take a lot of image repair from Apple to overcome that ugly history.  Beats/Apple need some serious dedication to sound quality, overall quality, and design robustness... but even that can't erase history.


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## endallchaos

kramer5150 said:


> My macbook Pro has been bomb-proof reliable over 3+ years, and my iPhone has likewise been just as reliable.  Its an added bonus that they also sound good with most of my headphones.     I think Apple has always catered to musicians and "the arts" (for lack of a better term).  I can't imagine them de-emphasizing this market segment, and abandoning sonic fidelity and durability / reliability.  Even despite how _*horrid Beats are across the board in every way.*_
> 
> I have found the latest design EarPods OEM earbuds to be very good sounding and extremely durable too, as I bounce back and forth between them and my KSC75 and SR60i.  Hopefully Apple will continue along this path in the consumer market arena with Beats.  That whole Dre-Beats versus Monster fia$co a few years ago still leaves me with a negative impression of both.  Its going to take a lot of image repair from Apple to overcome that ugly history.  Beats/Apple need some serious dedication to sound quality, overall quality, and design robustness... but even that can't erase history.




Hell yea, Apple makes things that last! I still have my iMac from 2005! Still works fine!


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## Xeculus

Apple better not start putting all the Beats Audio crap into their products. 
  
 I read an article a few months ago about how on the HTC One (might've been on Head-fi actually), it purposely tampers with the sound to make it bad when the software is turned off.


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## kramer5150

endallchaos said:


> Hell yea, Apple makes things that last! I still have my iMac from 2005! Still works fine!


 
 Yep... the brand as a whole really focuses on reliability, and I have no complaints.
  
 Beats on the other hand are purely an image/lifestyle company.  They are not what I would consider an audio-centric or a sonic fidelity company.  Add to that their long history of fragility and poor robustness and you have a complete turd of a product.
  
 Its not impossible to turn around.  Just look at the original Bose triport AE1, versus their re-designed (far superior) AE2.  Its the damage to the brand and image though thats hardest to repair.


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## endallchaos

kramer5150 said:


> Yep... the brand as a whole really focuses on reliability, and I have no complaints.
> 
> Beats on the other hand are purely an image/lifestyle company.  They are not what I would consider an audio-centric or a sonic fidelity company.  Add to that their long history of fragility and poor robustness and you have a complete turd of a product.
> 
> Its not impossible to turn around.  Just look at the original Bose triport AE1, versus their re-designed (far superior) AE2.  Its the damage to the brand and image though thats hardest to repair.




Yea, I agree.


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## Bansaku

I think that most people, myself included view this possible sale like so; Apple makes quality products that are in the end, unrivalled. Some may not like their 'ecosystem', some may believe that Apple products are overpriced. Some may have a destain for Apple just because. Regardless of people's personal opinions, and tastes, Apple does not make crap. Period! Apple does not overcharge for their products. Period! Apple listens to their users and don't include useless 'buzz-worthy' technology. Simple, clean, elegant, powerful, useful. That is Apple.
  
 Beats on the other hand are not that bad in terms of quality of sound and design, but they are also not great either. Unlike Apple, Beats is pure marketing; their products do not sound as good as the price leads you to believe, and are 3 times overpriced (minimum, I have seen what resellers pay and it's sickening). For $400 I could get a killer pair of top end  Sennheiser, Audio Technica, AKG, or Grados, that sound like $400 headphones. Beats HD headphones at that price point seriously sound like a pair of $50 Zoro HD. I am not knocking the Zoro HD in any way, rather simply accurately pricing the sound of any Beats products.
  
 Go to Kijiji and check out the headphones section. In Edmonton, 5 pairs of Beats are added daily, and I can honestly jump to each page going back to the new year and 95% of all headphones listed are Beats. That alone says a lot about the actual quality of their products, and why I will never waste my money on anything labeled 'Monster' or 'Beats'. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me 5 times and I become a realist.


----------



## inthere

Beats since inception were louder than any other headphone out and designed for portable listening. If you connect Sennheiser, Bose, or any other headphone to a smartphone it will not be as loud as Beats. To the general public demoing headphones in a store by connecting them to his or her smartphone, any other headphone will sound thin and weak compared to Beats. This is why Beats have flown off the shelves, and this is what "audiophiles" don't understand.
  
  Because audiophiles listen to music at much lower volumes instead of max volume, they're not aware of Beats overwhelming sound level advantage.
  
  Notice that Beats are available for demo at every single store where they're sold; they *know *that their cans will wipe the floor with every other set on display because of the volume advantage. Beats made today's in-store headphone rack almost mandatory; before that the headphone listening rack was only in high end audio outlets.
  
  "If" Beats were purely a product of marketing and style with crap sound, it would be ridiculous for them to promote audio demo listening in stores-they would avoid them at all costs.


----------



## thievesarmy

inthere said:


> Beats since inception were louder than any other headphone out and designed for portable listening. If you connect Sennheiser, Bose, or any other headphone to a smartphone it will not be as loud as Beats. To the general public demoing headphones in a store by connecting them to his or her smartphone, any other headphone will sound thin and weak compared to Beats. This is why Beats have flown off the shelves, and this is what "audiophiles" don't understand.
> 
> Because audiophiles listen to music at much lower volumes instead of max volume, they're not aware of Beats overwhelming sound level advantage.
> 
> ...


 
  
 lol... Strongly disagree. Because the average person does not KNOW what good audio is. They think strong bass & loud = good or ideal sound. So when they listen in a demo station, they don't know that what they are hearing isn't great - they don't know any better! And a big reason for that is the marketing - "The way music was MEANT to be heard…" and "The headphone used in all professional recording studios…" Riiiiiiight…
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Plus all the major headphone companies are now making efficient portable phones that work well on today's devices, but many of those are not stocked in the big box stores, so they're not able to demo them alongside Beats. Even if they were, I don't know that people would even reach for them because of the insane marketing that Beats does. To say that marketing isn't a huge motivating force for the average uninformed person is ridiculous. Why would they spend so much money on marketing if it wasn't working ?
  
 Also strongly disagree with your statement about audiophiles listening at lower levels. Maybe some do, but definitely not ALL. And the ones that do are not going for Beats because they're loud.


----------



## Smarty-pants

thievesarmy said:


> inthere said:
> 
> 
> > Beats since inception were louder than any other headphone out and designed for portable listening. If you connect Sennheiser, Bose, or any other headphone to a smartphone it will not be as loud as Beats. To the general public demoing headphones in a store by connecting them to his or her smartphone, any other headphone will sound thin and weak compared to Beats. This is why Beats have flown off the shelves, and this is what "audiophiles" don't understand.
> ...




I pretty much agree with all of that, plus as far as the bolded remark is concerned, a big part of that is the profit margin that resellers make on Beats.
It's very high, so stores WANT to sell as many as possible to make big profits. The stores couldn't care less about you getting the best sound quality.
The stores, and the people in charge of Beats, only care about making money, and if you're willing to pay the piper, they're the ones laughing all the way to the bank.


----------



## Sonido

inthere said:


> Beats since inception were louder than any other headphone out and designed for portable listening. If you connect Sennheiser, Bose, or any other headphone to a smartphone it will not be as loud as Beats. To the general public demoing headphones in a store by connecting them to his or her smartphone, any other headphone will sound thin and weak compared to Beats. This is why Beats have flown off the shelves, and this is what "audiophiles" don't understand.
> 
> Because audiophiles listen to music at much lower volumes instead of max volume, they're not aware of Beats overwhelming sound level advantage.
> 
> ...



Actually if you have a really good headphone with low distortion, playing at louder volumes won't seem as loud to your ears.


----------



## inthere

thievesarmy said:


> lol... Strongly disagree. Because the average person does not KNOW what good audio is. They think strong bass & loud = good or ideal sound. So when they listen in a demo station, they don't know that what they are hearing isn't great - they don't know any better! And a big reason for that is the marketing - "The way music was MEANT to be heard…" and "The headphone used in all professional recording studios…" Riiiiiiight…


 
  You do realize you've agreed with all I said *except* listening at lower levels? "*They think strong bass & loud = good or ideal sound."  I *said marketing gets Beats demoed, so it does play a part, but once people have listened they only know what they like. Beats are the loudest cans out for portable listening and I defy anyone to prove otherwise.


----------



## inthere

sonido said:


> Actually if you have a really good headphone with low distortion, playing at louder volumes won't seem as loud to your ears.


 
  
 I have over 60 pairs of headphones........HE-500's, TH 600's, and Ultrasones among them. Soon I'll have Alpha Dogs.
  
 "Plug in your own source!" the store displays say.
  
 I love the sound of my TH600's for example. However, if you put them on a smartphone in a store without a headphone amp, a lot of listeners will pick Beats over them.
 I've seen it happen. *Many* times. Of course I put the TH600's on a Schiit Asguard or better and they're ready to throw the Beats in a blender.
  
 But this has been the situation for a few years now. Momentums and Momentum on ears? Not as loud as Beats. Period. V-Moda? Not in stores, but also not as loud as Beats. Extremely overrated anyway imo. Everyone I've let hear my new XS's think they sound like crap. Bose? Not in the conversation. Sony? Not as loud as Beats. Not Sol Republic, Not UE, Not JVC,* none of them*
  
 Not when people are plugging in their own smartphones.
  
 Now of course we here at Head-Fi are aware of a number of low cost headphone amp solutions that even the playing field, but the person listening at the airport doesn't know about headphone amps, they're not even on sale, and he doesn't want to be bothered with all the wires and headaches when he's on the move.


----------



## Ruppin

byronb said:


> If Apple had any desire to make a Head-Fi quality headphone they could afford to buy just about any of the existing highly regarded companies. ....


 
 Ironically, if Apple purchased a quality headphone company, a lot more people would purchase those phones and learn just how much better sound can be. Apple has been a great force behind quality and good design. That is why a Beats deal would be so awful. IMHO, of course.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

ruppin said:


> Ironically, if Apple purchased a quality headphone company, a lot more people would purchase those phones and learn just how much better sound can be. Apple has been a great force behind quality and good design. That is why a Beats deal would be so awful. IMHO, of course.


I think they want the market share and branding, what Beats sound like is totally irrelevant to Apple. It's all about the mindless followers, kind of like Apple's other products... just kidding . If they really wanted to, they could start producing quality headphones under the Beats name as long as they keep a slightly bass emphasized sound, but that's not what Beats is about. Beats is about name-branding, style, and bass that sounds like common low quality subwoofers.


----------



## Hapster

"Meanwhile if it is about streaming why not aim for the very top since Spotify itself carries a valuation of roughly $4 billion. Apple takes top spot and removes its biggest rival in one fell swoop." 

This is extremely important, if it were about streaming, thet could literally buy spotify for just 800M more.


----------



## Smarty-pants

^LOL, you are assuming that Spotify is for sale at the price you think Apple should pay.
A very large and illogical assumption imo.


----------



## ivanflo

Beats purchase May be related to manufacturing processes or perhaps current factories. Who's to say apple  doesn't re engineer beats headphones for the better and make some great quality headphones. I think beats has the capability to make brilliant headphones, they have just targeted a specific market > bass HEAVY sound. 

I would assume the brands would remain separate, perhaps beats as a sub brand, a la xbox. Some of the ideas around the beasts streaming service is quite brilliant, Apple could take alot from it.


----------



## Hapster

Then it'd be similar to logitech buying UE. They want a seperate branch so that they cover more of the market. Beats and apple were already represented together (selling beats in apple storess) so it's not hard to believe they would rather profit from that.

I still think it's dillusional to think we're gonna get hifi beats, but I do see $500+ mediocre beats in our future.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

hapster said:


> I still think it's dillusional to think we're gonna get hifi beats, but I do see $500+ mediocre beats in our future.


Even if there were 90% of Head-Fiers would refuse to buy them because they're a consumer marketed headphone . Everyone here seems to have an elitist attitude toward Beats whether they mean to or not. I'm all right with Monster's other headphones because they're attempting to improve sound quality.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

toddthemetalgod said:


> Even if there were 90% of Head-Fiers would refuse to buy them because they're a consumer marketed headphone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Apparently, Monster knows what they're doing. Having come from hi-fi speakers, I think they're competent enough to be respected as a headphone brand, despite their affiliation with Beats in the past. But that's gone now. Now, we know them as a great brand with awesome offerings like the Turbines, Gratitudes, Trumpets, and most recently, the DNA Pro (which the almighty Jude Mansilla uses as an on-the-go can).


----------



## thievesarmy

hapster said:


> "Meanwhile if it is about streaming why not aim for the very top since Spotify itself carries a valuation of roughly $4 billion. Apple takes top spot and removes its biggest rival in one fell swoop."
> 
> This is extremely important, if it were about streaming, thet could literally buy spotify for just 800M more.


 
  
 Except for the fact that Spotify is just a streaming service, and it isn't profitable. At least with Beats, they get a ready-made streaming service AND a profitable headphone business, not to mention the brainpower / cachet from Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre coming on board. Spotify doesn't really have any big names attached to it, except for CEO Daniel Ek who isn't an icon of the music industry like the other 2 guys are.
  
 I think from Apple's perspective, they feel like if they get in the game they can probably overtake Spotify, so this deal makes the most sense from all angles and especially when it comes to satisfying their stockholders.


----------



## ToddTheMetalGod

thatbeatsguy said:


> Apparently, Monster knows what they're doing. Having come from hi-fi speakers, I think they're competent enough to be respected as a headphone brand, despite their affiliation with Beats in the past. But that's gone now. Now, we know them as a great brand with awesome offerings like the Turbines, Gratitudes, Trumpets, and most recently, the DNA Pro (which the almighty Jude Mansilla uses as an on-the-go can).


I didn't even know they made speakers too, cool. I thought they were just a cable company outside of headphones. They really aren't a bad company at all, especially for a regular consumer brand. Most of us here are used to odd and exotic headphones, but a regular consumer wouldn't consider those brands. They're pretty much on the same level as Ultimate Ears, Yamaha's new portable headphone line, and V-Moda. 

They do deserve more respect here, but at the same time they are highly overpriced for what you get, don't have the greatest build quality, and have marketing that is shameful towards the audio community.


----------



## Sonido

It's funny how loudness of Beats in stores is what allows it to sell. I do notice that they're always setup by themselves. Perhaps they're pulling a card from Monster where their HDMI cables were compared comes next to TVs with standard definition. Perhaps that Beats station in store has a special EQ.


----------



## thievesarmy

Those in-store demo's are BS. I have NEVER seen one where you use your own source, it's always the one where you just push a button and it lights up. Also, most of the demo units I have seen (in Best Buy's) there was little to no selection of headphones to choose from. This was like a year ago, but it was almost ALL Beats, maybe 1 or 2 of the Sony DJ-style / Bass-heavy models, and some ugly-as-sin Monster or Skull Candy's. That's it. In fact, it was the terrible selection that led me to find Head-Fi. I went in hoping to find something, and I didn't know much at the time, but I knew I didn't want Beats or Skull Candy. Since their options were so limited, I left the store and started searching online, THANK GOD.


----------



## CJs06

I'm not too sure what to think about this news. Other than a retardedly strong brand that Beats has... I don't think their Beats music service would be any sort of a competitive advantage. Licensing? Infrastructure? IP?
  
 Curious indeed.


----------



## Bansaku

The more I have been reading on the possible acquisition, the more I realize that literally every site that has reported on it is basically regurgitating the same 'rumour', backed up by no facts or hyperlinks. There has been lots of speculation but nothing even remotely concrete to validate the story.
  
 Anyway, the more I think about it the more I see the logic behind Apple's potential purchase. Headphones with built in iPods with Siri anyone? New pack in IEM vs the standard white buds? 3.2 Billion would probably be more than enough to buy out Sennheiser, Sony's headphone department, UE, B&W, and probably every other company that makes headphones. That is no small sum to the average company that is not above 600pts on the stock market. Obviously there is more to their thinking than acquiring good headphone tech. Beats already is well established with the 'in' crowd/hipsters/sheep. Apple could easily tweak Beats and transition into a more balanced market. As I stated, Beats is not bad, just tailored to a specific demography willing to overpay for ok sound that puts the smile of the faces of otolaryngologists the same way Halloween does for dentists.
  
 Hopefully more reliable news comes forward this next week and shed some light on this very heated rumour!


----------



## StanD

Siri said that if the deal goes through, she's quiting and getting a job at Google.


----------



## CantScareMe

Yea, it looks like pure speculation and a rumor from somewhere.


----------



## StanD

cantscareme said:


> Yea, it looks like pure speculation and a rumor from somewhere.


 
 Siri started the rumor.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> Siri started the rumor.


 
 lol you're probably right... damn Siri.


----------



## Byronb

stand said:


> Siri started the rumor.


 
 LOL...So true.


----------



## CantScareMe

Who's Siri?


----------



## StanD

cantscareme said:


> Who's Siri?


 
 Don't get too excited, she's not that kind of girl..


----------



## Hapster

I use the male siri :/


----------



## thievesarmy

cjs06 said:


> I'm not too sure what to think about this news. Other than a retardedly strong brand that Beats has... I don't think their Beats music service would be any sort of a competitive advantage. Licensing? Infrastructure? IP?


 
  
 They do have a competitive advantage over Spotify in that their headphones are so popular, and they can market through them or even bundle headphones w/ Beats subscriptions. They also have big music industry names in the company. Jimmy is arguably the most well known music industry figure (that hasn't also been a performing artist) and he has a high position at the largest label conglomerate (Universal). That, paired with Apple's iOS / iTunes infrastructure & install base, and I'm pretty confident they could deliver something that is significantly better than Spotify. Apple is really phenomenal with device ecosystem 'synergy', where if you have a mac computer, iphone, ipad, airport, apple tv, etc. they all work really well together.
  
 Here's some more insight in the wake of a leaked Beats royalty statement, which I believe adds credence to my earlier theory that part of Apple's interest could be in their existing licensing / royalty agreements: http://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/13/beats-music-subscribers/


----------



## CJs06

thievesarmy said:


> They do have a competitive advantage over Spotify in that their headphones are so popular, and they can market through them or even bundle headphones w/ Beats subscriptions. They also have big music industry names in the company. Jimmy is arguably the most well known music industry figure (that hasn't also been a performing artist) and he has a high position at the largest label conglomerate (Universal). That, paired with Apple's iOS / iTunes infrastructure & install base, and I'm pretty confident they could deliver something that is significantly better than Spotify. Apple is really phenomenal with device ecosystem 'synergy', where if you have a mac computer, iphone, ipad, airport, apple tv, etc. they all work really well together.
> 
> Here's some more insight in the wake of a leaked Beats royalty statement, which I believe adds credence to my earlier theory that part of Apple's interest could be in their existing licensing / royalty agreements: http://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/13/beats-music-subscribers/


 
 This makes sense, I think Apple's aim at Beat's licensing and royalty agreements is spot on. That would constitute a competitive advantage along with the strong Beats brand recognition. I guess it is to be seen if Apple can sustain this competitive advantage over Spotify by introducing the threat of a new entrance into the music streaming industry.


----------



## LFC_SL

It's combination of both. Bass bias in your face sound and marketing. Not as if Beats were the first ever to tap into popular culture preference for a bassy signature. They have just been the most successful at execution to date. You always find over-analysis in these kind of threads, if you cut away the superiority there is a lot of respect due. And hey, Beats has helped the headphone market to grow and brought many competitors to market, some of which are respected on enthusiast sites such as this one. Still a plus


----------



## thievesarmy

This really isn't about that. This thread should really only be about the Apple + Beats acquisition, and things directly related to that. There are plenty of other threads for anyone that wants to harp on Beats' general success or shortcomings, etc.


----------



## CantScareMe

stand said:


> Don't get too excited, she's not that kind of girl..


 
  
 Lol, my safe search was off. Don't think she started the rumor.


----------



## HiFiAudio

Per AudioStream


> Thanks to reader CG for pointing us to this article on MacRumors (see article) which claims Apple will introduce 24-bit capability with the launch of their updated mobile app iOS 8 coming June 2 at the Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC).
> 
> At present, iOS 7's music app is limited to 24/48, which in and of itself ain't bad, and while you can have your iOS device play back greater resolutions using Onkyo's HF Player (see article) and an external DAC, internal playback is currently limited to 16-bit.
> 
> ...


----------



## StanD

hapster said:


> I use the male siri :/


 
 You can't trick me, I saw the woman that was the voice of Siri on the news. Apparently she made the recorded voice samples long before Siri came to be and didn't even know it was her voice when Siri surfaced.


----------



## StanD

I really don't see why Apple needs Beats for that much cash. Apple already has a strong brand name with a dedicated following. They have the technical prowess and fincancial force to pull off a streaming service and the business accumin to strike deals for content as they already have the relationships since they already sell the content on iTunes. For that much money they could do all of this and partner with a headphone company that knows how to make great sounding cans/IEMs. Tim Cook is not the creative genuis that Steve Jobs was, but he is brilliant at contracts, supply chains and manufacturing in China. If I was him, I'd tell Dre to beat it.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Here's my take: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/why-might-apple-buy-beats-one-word-hearables


----------



## Mediahound

In semi-related rumor news, sounds like Apple may be releasing an 'HD' audio format soon. This would be great. 
  
 I've only been buying CDs these days to get better audio quality than what is available via iTunes. If they release a CD or better quality format on iTunes and it doesn't cost more than a CD, I'd be all for that. 
  
 http://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/13/hd-audio-ios-8-new-in-ear-headphones-lightning/


----------



## ferday

tyll hertsens said:


> Here's my take: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/why-might-apple-buy-beats-one-word-hearables




Yup. Anyone that doubts it, take a google for iBeacon

It'll all come together after that (watching minority report may help lol)


----------



## rptlead

and here i thought HP will buy em..


----------



## HiFiAudio

rptlead said:


> and here i thought HP will buy em..


 
 And HP is finally starting to have positive analyst's opinions finally after 10 years. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Seriously they do indeed have products that use/display beats logo, but are making a no comment to this rumor.


----------



## rptlead

hifiaudio said:


> And HP is finally starting to have positive analyst's opinions finally after 10 years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 lol.  I wonder how many years it will take for beats to get positive opinions here


----------



## StanD

rptlead said:


> lol.  I wonder how many years it will take for beats to get positive opinions here


 
 We should live so long.


----------



## Makiah S

netforce said:


> Can't say I saw that coming, if this goes through and they start implementing iphones with silly beats stuff on it then I shall not touch a iphone any time in the future.


 
 Thank gawd, all you Apple lovers can finally come join the rest of us on the everythingbutiANYTHING side of head fi lol 
  
 oh gawd hearables... can I just give that whole concept a big middle finger? HEY let's make the modern public even more dependant on technology! Let's make them some what lazier too while we are at it! Or let's give stalkers an easier way to... STALK!!!


----------



## Hapster

mshenay said:


> Thank gawd, all you Apple lovers can finally come join the rest of us on the everythingbutiANYTHING side of head fi lol
> 
> oh gawd hearables... can I just give that whole concept a big middle finger? HEY let's make the modern public even more dependant on technology! Let's make them some what lazier too while we are at it! Or let's give stalkers an easier way to... STALK!!!




Siri, what is that?
"That's the same girl you've been looking at for the last 5 minutes"
What's her name?
"Checking social media outlets..."


----------



## Makiah S

hapster said:


> Siri, what is that?
> "That's the same girl you've been looking at for the last 5 minutes"
> What's her name?
> "Checking social media outlets..."


 
 this my friends, is the future... if were lucky Siri will alert the girl that about 15 feet to her left is a man starring at her and attempting to find her contact information :/


----------



## fabio-fi

Oh well, not sure if this was posted before:


----------



## Hapster

That about sums it up^


----------



## CantScareMe

In most stores where I've seen beats headphones on display, they're broken. An earcup semi/fully detached, cable missing, headband broken, earpad dislodged.....and when I ask the shop assistant they often admit it's not because they're the most popular. Just simply fragile.
  
 The pictures probably correct in that apple will fix that if they were to buy beats over. Maybe it was a story put out there just to see the consumer/media response. Clever way of testing.
  
 Still find it very interesting. Surprised it's not much of an active topic of discussion on headfi though.


----------



## StanD

cantscareme said:


> In most stores where I've seen beats headphones on display, they're broken. An earcup semi/fully detached, cable missing, headband broken, earpad dislodged.....and when I ask the shop assistant they often admit it's not because they're the most popular. Just simply fragile.
> 
> The pictures probably correct in that apple will fix that if they were to buy beats over. Maybe it was a story put out there just to see the consumer/media response. Clever way of testing.
> 
> Still find it very interesting. Surprised it's not much of an active topic of discussion on headfi though.


 
 Why waste time? "If you *Beat* a dead horse headphone, it won't get up and run."


----------



## HalSF

stand said:


> Why waste time? "If you *Beat* a dead horse headphone, it won't get up and run."




You can lead a Beats to Apple, but you can't make him think different.


----------



## CantScareMe

stand said:


> Why waste time? "If you *Beat* a dead horse headphone, it won't get up and run."


 
  
 Lol, that's a good way of saying it.


----------



## HiFiAudio

Might as well throw water on the fire
Is App Telling Us A "Secret" About Apple-Beats Deal?


----------



## thatBeatsguy

hifiaudio said:


> Might as well throw water on the fire
> Is App Telling Us A "Secret" About Apple-Beats Deal?


 
 Cool. So if ever the 'leak' was right, will "Secret" become the app version of WikiLeaks?


----------



## HiFiAudio

Apple’s Beats Deal Is Happening, And It’s A Dre Acquihire
  


> A well-placed source has confirmed rumors that Apple’s acquisition of Beats “is happening” but was close to falling apart multiple times. The source said with “70% certainty” that Apple’s planned multi-billion acquisition of headphone maker Beats will go through. But Apple isn’t buying Beats for the technology, they’re buying the talent.


 
 Oh great now laying odds . . . . .70% probability 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


> Rumors in Asia also point to previous moves by Samsung to buy the Beats brand, a deal that fell through “earlier in the year.”
> Apple’s efforts, it seems, will bear more fruit. “The deal hasn’t fallen apart yet,” the source said.


 
 Interesting about the Samsung tidbit, because that's would have been a perfect build quality marriage!   (I'm joking)


----------



## StanD

Quote:


> A well-placed source has confirmed rumors that Apple’s acquisition of Beats “is happening” but was close to falling apart multiple times. The source said with “70% certainty” that Apple’s planned multi-billion acquisition of headphone maker Beats will go through. But Apple isn’t buying Beats for the technology, *they’re buying the talent*.



 What talent?


----------



## thatBeatsguy

stand said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> > A well-placed source has confirmed rumors that Apple’s acquisition of Beats “is happening” but was close to falling apart multiple times. The source said with “70% certainty” that Apple’s planned multi-billion acquisition of headphone maker Beats will go through. But Apple isn’t buying Beats for the technology, *they’re buying the talent*.
> ...


 
 I think they're buying Beats because of Jimmy Iovine, who is one of the larger names in the musci industry. With him at Apple's disposal, he could have lots of record producers talked into releasing their albums on iTunes first (which should more than bump up sales).


----------



## StanD

thatbeatsguy said:


> I think they're buying Beats because of Jimmy Iovine, who is one of the larger names in the musci industry. With him at Apple's disposal, he could have lots of record producers talked into releasing their albums on iTunes first (which should more than bump up sales).


 
 That's buying connections. Apple already has enough connections due to iTunes and reputation due to the sales volume of iTunes. I wouldn't be surprised if the deal fell through.


----------



## thievesarmy

From The Verge -


> The most likely [cause of delay] seems to simply be that it's complicated to make a $3.2 billion acquisition — Apple's largest ever and the first major deal under CEO Tim Cook — and perhaps word of the purchase leaked out far earlier than expected. _Billboard_ also notes that the Beats Music streaming service is a separate business unit only partly owned by Beats Electronics, and if the unlimited-access music service is key to Apple's interest, there could be a disagreement over the purchase price. One source tells the music industry magazine that there are also concerns over whether Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre are a good fit as Apple executives. Especially after Dr. Dre's expletive-filled celebration of the news that was posted on Facebook and subsequently seen by thousands online. No matter what's holding up a deal, we should find out soon whether Apple still intends to purchase the headphone empire.


----------



## Silent Xaxal

Ah well. Call me back when an actual audiophile grade company gets bought out.


----------



## eugenius

Next time try for N-Sync.


----------



## Makiah S

silent xaxal said:


> Ah well. Call me back when an actual audiophile grade company gets bought out.


 
 this is actually a big deal, the biggest headphone company being bought out by one of the biggest PC sales companies in the US, what that means is tons of ppl are going to need hardware to start decoding all of that new high res we might be getting from apple, I think as soon as Apple starts selling Hi Res... that's the instant the big companies are going to start pushing into the market that Apple is trying to command. cans like the new LCD X and AKG K812 demonstrate that, these easy to drive headphones paired with what could be a forward movement on apple part to start selling high res, will ultimatly land more average users here at head fi looking to get the best out of their high res music


----------



## Silent Xaxal

mshenay said:


> this is actually a big deal, the biggest headphone company being bought out by one of the biggest PC sales companies in the US, what that means is tons of ppl are going to need hardware to start decoding all of that new high res we might be getting from apple, I think as soon as Apple starts selling Hi Res... that's the instant the big companies are going to start pushing into the market that Apple is trying to command. cans like the new LCD X and AKG K812 demonstrate that, these easy to drive headphones paired with what could be a forward movement on apple part to start selling high res, will ultimatly land more average users here at head fi looking to get the best out of their high res music


 
 That actually sounds pretty good.
  
 Was just stating because I could care less about Beats being bought out. Bu the possibility you mention does sound enticing. For as long as it is accessible.


----------



## Sonido

This hi res thing is just a marketing ploy. They all know no one will be able to hear the difference from the cheap headphones on the market today. But people will believe they can hear a difference through placebo effect. Anything they can do to separate themselves from competition. Just like the beyond 20kHz rating you get on many headphones. I just hope hi res doesn't mean they add bass to the mastering of songs to actually provide a difference, but that would not surprise me at all.


----------



## Silent Xaxal

sonido said:


> This hi res thing is just a marketing ploy. They all know no one will be able to hear the difference from the cheap headphones on the market today. But people will believe they can hear a difference through placebo effect. Anything they can do to separate themselves from competition. Just like the beyond 20kHz rating you get on many headphones. I just hope hi res doesn't mean they add bass to the mastering of songs to actually provide a difference, but that would not surprise me at all.


 
  
 Maybe, maybe not. Hopefully, it results in better audio available on a wider scale.
  
 Me personally? I'll just wait and see. Am pretty indifferent to this.


----------



## Makiah S

sonido said:


> This hi res thing is just a marketing ploy. They all know no one will be able to hear the difference from the cheap headphones on the market today. But people will believe they can hear a difference through placebo effect. Anything they can do to separate themselves from competition. Just like the beyond 20kHz rating you get on many headphones. I just hope hi res doesn't mean they add bass to the mastering of songs to actually provide a difference, but that would not surprise me at all.


 
  
  


silent xaxal said:


> Maybe, maybe not. Hopefully, it results in better audio available on a wider scale.
> 
> Me personally? I'll just wait and see. Am pretty indifferent to this.


 
  
 I agree with Sonido that it's mostly a marketing ploy, but when one of the biggest portable media device corps in the world beings a push to high res, the whole audiophile market stands to benifit


----------



## bixby

stand said:


> That's buying connections. Apple already has enough connections due to iTunes and reputation due to the sales volume of iTunes. I wouldn't be surprised if the deal fell through.


 
 +1


----------



## bixby

sonido said:


> This hi res thing is just a marketing ploy. They all know no one will be able to hear the difference from the cheap headphones on the market today. But people will believe they can hear a difference through placebo effect. Anything they can do to separate themselves from competition. Just like the beyond 20kHz rating you get on many headphones. I just hope hi res doesn't mean they add bass to the mastering of songs to actually provide a difference, but that would not surprise me at all.


 
 yea, that's it................. HDtracks, DSD,  SACD rips, double dsd,  24/384 mastering, 24/912 downloads, yes all these people are nuts .........they are just adding bass to it!


----------



## Hapster

Who knows what they're doing to it? But yea, the stuff is bogus, don't want to turn it to one of those threads...but the only thing that matters is bit rate, and 320 is lossless. Even flac is pointless.


----------



## CJs06

The ideal situation is receiving a bit-perfect copy of the original engineered master of an album/ single. There is many methods labels, audio companies and media services can skin the "bit-perfect" cat. The differences between these methods while technically different in execution, leave extremely minute differences in performance that are still being debated to death today. 
  
 So, regardless if its 24/192, 24/96, 24/48, 16/44 FLAC/ AIFF or DSD (downloaded or SACD)... I really don't care. Just give me a bit-perfect copy of the recording that isn't compressed to hell and back by crap audio production engineering. Let me worry about the volume knob, there is a really nice one attached to my amplifier.


----------



## bixby

hapster said:


> Who knows what they're doing to it? But yea, the stuff is bogus, don't want to turn it to one of those threads...but the only thing that matters is bit rate, and 320 is lossless. Even flac is pointless.


----------



## Makiah S

hapster said:


> Who knows what they're doing to it? But yea, the stuff is bogus, don't want to turn it to one of those threads...but the only thing that matters is bit rate, and 320 is lossless. Even flac is pointless.


 
 we both know that it isn't true don't be one of those people, Digital Audio was first Loseless, the compressed files came later after the Loseless standard or red book was established. Objectively it's clear that FLAC has advantages over 320k Mp3, such as mp3's lack of "white noise" or it's 20k Shelf 
  
 16bit flac is what we get off of RedBook, anything byound that is debateable 
  


bixby said:


>


 
  
  


cjs06 said:


> The ideal situation is receiving a bit-perfect copy of the original engineered master of an album/ single. There is many methods labels, audio companies and media services can skin the "bit-perfect" cat. The differences between these methods while technically different in execution, leave extremely minute differences in performance that are still being debated to death today.
> 
> So, regardless if its 24/192, 24/96, 24/48, 16/44 FLAC/ AIFF or DSD (downloaded or SACD)... I really don't care. Just give me a bit-perfect copy of the recording that isn't compressed to hell and back by crap audio production engineering. Let me worry about the volume knob, there is a really nice one attached to my amplifier.


 
 agreed


----------



## bixby

hi-res?  ...........................these folks must have been in Denver on 4-20  or Neil paid them all off.................or no it's PLACEBO!
  
 And he used his car stereo to demo the difference.  Makes you go hmmmmm
  
 https://d2pq0u4uni88oo.cloudfront.net/projects/884493/video-355903-h264_high.mp4


----------



## Hapster

Meh, I'm fine with people playing whatever files they want, and sure, it'd be nice for 320 files from iTunes, but as soon as they start charging more, or start making 96khz+ I'll get edgey, since everyone knows 96kz+ hurts the fidelity and it'll be clear it's just a cash grab.


----------



## bixby

hapster said:


> Meh, I'm fine with people playing whatever files they want, and sure, it'd be nice for 320 files from iTunes, but as soon as they start charging more, or start making 96khz+ I'll get edgey, since everyone knows 96kz+ hurts the fidelity and it'll be clear it's just a cash grab.


 
 Hi Hapster:
  
 I might be one of the few that does not know, so could you please explain or help me understand your statement: "everyone knows 96kz+ hurts the fidelity"
  
 thanks


----------



## Hapster

...y'know what. I'll just stop. I don't think there's a way to do this without insulting people. I just don't want iTunes taking advantage of people, like so many audio companies do already.

Also, 





bixby said:


> Hi Hapster:
> 
> I might be one of the few that does not know, so could you please explain or help me understand your statement: "everyone knows 96kz+ hurts the fidelity"
> 
> thanks




http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html


----------



## Makiah S

hapster said:


> Meh, I'm fine with people playing whatever files they want, and sure, it'd be nice for 320 files from iTunes, but as soon as they start charging more, or start making 96khz+ I'll get edgey, since everyone knows 96kz+ hurts the fidelity and it'll be clear it's just a cash grab.


 
  
  


bixby said:


> Hi Hapster:
> 
> I might be one of the few that does not know, so could you please explain or help me understand your statement: "everyone knows 96kz+ hurts the fidelity"
> 
> thanks


 
  
  


hapster said:


> ...y'know what. I'll just stop. I don't think there's a way to do this without insulting people. I just don't want iTunes taking advantage of people, like so many audio companies do already.
> 
> Also,
> http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html


 
 Actually Hapster makes a good point, I got a chance to read over that article a few months back my self. It's a good one indeed.
  
 back to what I mentioned earlier anything above Red Book, or 16/44.1 imo is unessicary. And most of the 24/96khz that I have are Vinyl Rips, and I can understand the people ripping those doing it at such a high sample rate, but anything byound that is unessicary imo


----------



## pfurey89

Woof.


----------



## HalSF

All of these digressions about the Hi-Res Holy Wars don't really belong here IMO. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Back on topice, I'm beginning the lean toward this doubters about the Apple-Beats deal really happening.
  
 Although a top business publication (the New York Post) is reporting that the deal is still on but the price has dropped:
  
*Apple Cuts Purchase Price of Beats*


----------



## kurochin

pfurey89 said:


> Woof.


 
  
 Wrong rapper, mate.


----------



## Makiah S

halsf said:


> All of these digressions about the Hi-Res Holy Wars don't really belong here IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That might just be Apple retailiating against Dr Dre's foolishness


----------



## Hapster

I don't think they bought them just to say "Beats is earning money..I want some of that", they could've just bought shares. No, if anything it was the branding.


----------



## thievesarmy

welp, it's official. BARF.
  
 http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140528006701/en/Apple-Acquire-Beats-Music-Beats-Electronics
  
 thread title updated.


----------



## CantScareMe

Yep, Wow!!
  
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27613243 
  
 Most read on BBC...cos apple and beats are both kind of popular...


----------



## attilahun

Sigh.


----------



## FuzzyD

The "Apple products are just fashion accessories" crowd is going to love this.


----------



## CantScareMe

Execs: 'We need something to boost our Music division. What should we do?'. 
Tim: 'Beats me.' 
  
 Sorry, had to quote this from the web.
 Borderline cheesy/funny. I think it's cheesy


----------



## thievesarmy

I'm a very loyal Apple fan, and this has seriously changed my perception of their brand, which is arguably their most valuable asset.


----------



## thievesarmy

"Could Eddy's [Cue] team have built a subscription service? Of course. We could've built those 27 other things ourselves, too," referencing the 27 other companies acquired over the last year, "you don't build everything yourself." That's especially true if you think that you're buying the "first subscription service that really got it right," as he told _Re/code_.
  
 http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/28/apple-could-have-built-subscription-music-service/


----------



## FuzzyD

Same


thievesarmy said:


> I'm a very loyal Apple fan, and this has seriously changed my perception of their brand, which is arguably their most valuable asset.


 
  
 Same. Just wait until iOS 8 has its music player renamed "Beats" and you can't you delete it. I'll be done with the iPhone at that point.


----------



## Bansaku

thievesarmy said:


> I'm a very loyal Apple fan, and this has seriously changed my perception of their brand, which is arguably their most valuable asset.


 
 Same here. I know it seems silly, but one can't help how they feel. I know this deal is more than 'headphones', but seriously, Beats has absolutely NOTHING that appeals to me; not it's style, not it's music, especially not it's endorsements.
  
 Apple has a gazillion dollars and could have literally bought every other music streaming service out there (and half the headphone market). Why Beats? Image!!!!!
  
 I hate to say this, and what I am about to say has been speculated by reputable sources since the news broke earlier this month. I think Apple did this to attract more blacks. There, I said it. Their logic (reasoning) is that it is a fact that iDevices are not popular with black community; I take public transit daily to and from work, and I have literally yet to see a single black person with one (and I am obsessed with gazing at peoples headphones/IEM and their music players). I can also tell you that by my observations 98% of Asians (Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Filipino) have iPhones and 0% wear beats.


----------



## Makiah S

bansaku said:


> Same here. I know it seems silly, but one can't help how they feel. I know this deal is more than 'headphones', but seriously, Beats has absolutely NOTHING that appeals to me; not it's style, not it's music, especially not it's endorsements.
> 
> Apple has a gazillion dollars and could have literally bought every other music streaming service out there (and half the headphone market). Why Beats? Image!!!!!
> 
> I hate to say this, and what I am about to say has been speculated by reputable sources since the news broke earlier this month. I think Apple did this to attract more blacks. There, I said it. Their logic (reasoning) is that it is a fact that iDevices are not popular with black community; I take public transit daily to and from work, and I have literally yet to see a single black person with one (and I am obsessed with gazing at peoples headphones/IEM and their music players). I can also tell you that by my observations 98% of Asians (Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Filipino) have iPhones and 0% wear beats.


 
 I HIGHLY doubt they are going to keep any of the style that Beats developed, I think Apple is purely after the infrustructure, Beats Audio has the facilities to develop decent sounding headphones and the connections to manufactor a lot of them. Apple is going to use their infrerstructure and pre existing hard ware and software to advance their own brand. Im sure Apple will still sell one or two brand of "beats" styled headphones but I for see Apple launching their own headphones with a slighty different estectics


----------



## Currawong

I think all the crazy ideas as to why they bought the company are nonsense. Apple's thinking is vastly more complex and carefully considered than what most people imagine. If it weren't, they wouldn't be as big or successful as they are now.
  
 If anything, they will have a long term goal with this, which we'll find out about soon enough. The iPod, iPhone and iPad seemed crazy when they were respectively announced, yet look where we are now.


----------



## Makiah S

currawong said:


> I think all the crazy ideas as to why they bought the company are nonsense. Apple's thinking is vastly more complex and carefully considered than what most people imagine. If it weren't, they wouldn't be as big or successful as they are now.
> 
> If anything, they will have a long term goal with this, which we'll find out about soon enough. The iPod, iPhone and iPad seemed crazy when they were respectively announced, yet look where we are now.


 
 Oh I think the crazy ideas are Valid, personally I think buying beats was a Smart move for Apple, what ever they do with it will only benifit Apple, granted they may lose a few hundred "audioPhiles" but they'll gain a ton more customers, Beats was the Highest grossing headphone in what 2012 or something? Apple will take that success and push it to the next level, I hope this is the start of a push into High Res for Apple, If they offered a streaming service that featured  lossless files that would be very cool, something else to thing about is the new 802.11ac wireless standard... if Wireless has moved up to 5g Streaming Celluar Technology can't b far behind, and I can very easily for see Apple making a LOT of money doing a High Res Streaming service in the near Future, again they have infrustructure in place with Beats and the Hard ware in the Headphones to have a decent platform to launch a campagin into High Res, not to mention if Apple starts to Stream and sell High Res music in bulk it'll change the market again. As far as I know, there are no millions of people subscribed to lossless quality streamign services yet... imagine if Apple was the first to brign taht technology to their millions of customers :/
  
 if anything, with Apple Purchasing Beats and their streaming service, along with the CEO of Audeze in the Public Eye... something big is about to happen in our little Headphone Market, not a bubble... but there's a wave coming
  
 that said, I've got a job offer in the works that will hopefully give me the chance to help push this wave forward... but to those of you in the industry... I wish you the best as I think the industry stands to gain a lot in the future... were on the brink of something that will hopefully start selling more $500+ headphones 
  
 Again look at AKG's choice to launch the K812, imagine again, High Res Streaming on your iPad... with a pair of AKG K812s, or better yet lap tops now adays "brag" about having beats audio inside... you've seen the cool commecerials, now if the Beats Brand is Apples "high Res" option, and they start pushing out some decent quality cans... again some one's going to get very wealthy...


----------



## Bansaku

mshenay said:


> I HIGHLY doubt they are going to keep any of the style that Beats developed, I think Apple is purely after the infrustructure, Beats Audio has the facilities to develop decent sounding headphones and the connections to manufactor a lot of them. Apple is going to use their infrerstructure and pre existing hard ware and software to advance their own brand. Im sure Apple will still sell one or two brand of "beats" styled headphones but I for see Apple launching their own headphones with a slighty different estectics


 
  
 There is a very high probability (no doubt)  that Apple will indeed make use the existing infrastructure and re-brand/re-develope Beats into their own. However Apple could have bought any other headphone manufacturer and do what you hypothesize. Why do they 'need' Beats? Marketing. If not for the headphones, for Dre and Iovine.  Apple could literally hire the best of the best from anywhere in the world who have the same skills and knowledge as those two. But will they be as 'cool' as Dre and Iovine? Me thinks not. But that's just my 2 cents.


----------



## StanD

currawong said:


> I think all the crazy ideas as to why they bought the company are nonsense. Apple's thinking is vastly more complex and carefully considered than what most people imagine. If it weren't, they wouldn't be as big or successful as they are now.
> 
> If anything, they will have a long term goal with this, which we'll find out about soon enough. The iPod, iPhone and iPad seemed crazy when they were respectively announced, yet look where we are now.


 
 Isn't $3B off the deep end for this? Their (Beats) Streaming service doesn't have all that many subscribers. As far as manufacturing and engineering, I'd say Apple is well established in these areas and if they wanted to design a headphone they could contract the work to an established headphone company for far less money and get better results. As far as a customer base, Apple is not wanting. This deal, if it goes through, may end up being a major blunder.


----------



## Makiah S

bansaku said:


> There is a very high probability (no doubt)  that Apple will indeed make use the existing infrastructure and re-brand/re-develope Beats into their own. However Apple could have bought any other headphone manufacturer and do what you hypothesize. Why do they 'need' Beats? Marketing. If not for the headphones, for Dre and Iovine.  Apple could literally hire the best of the best from anywhere in the world who have the same skills and knowledge as those two. But will they be as 'cool' as Dre and Iovine? Me thinks not. But that's just my 2 cents.


 
 this is going to sound rude but it's truth... both apple and Beats are social statements, and both of them are... hugely popular with consumers. I think Apple plans to use the existing success that Beats had and take it to the next level,  we all remember how tacky some of us where in High School... well we can think of Beats time with Dr Dre as a "high School run" he got hugely popular but now that Beats is under Apples name... it's like when you went to College... what ever made you cool in High School... might have gotten replaced by what may now allow
  
 Maturity, why build a new brand when you can enhance and mature an existing one, you know? Some one else has already done the ground work, now your purchase that base and build off of it. saves time and money 
  
 Apple won't try to be "cool" with the Beats name, they are going to aim to mature the brand and hopefully get the consumers who bought into the "cool" factor of beats to mature with the brand they love, I think Apple Wants to ReBoot the beats name, take all of their previous customers and get some new ones


----------



## StanD

mshenay said:


> this is going to sound rude but it's truth... both apple and Beats are social statements, and both of them are... hugely popular with consumers. I think Apple plans to use the existing success that Beats had and take it to the next level,  we all remember how tacky some of us where in High School... well we can think of Beats time with Dr Dre as a "high School run" he got hugely popular but now that Beats is under Apples name... it's like when you went to College... what ever made you cool in High School... might have gotten replaced by what may now allow
> 
> Maturity, why build a new brand when you can enhance and mature an existing one, you know? Some one else has already done the ground work, now your purchase that base and build off of it. saves time and money
> 
> Apple won't try to be "cool" with the Beats name, they are going to aim to mature the brand and hopefully get the consumers who bought into the "cool" factor of beats to mature with the brand they love, I think Apple Wants to ReBoot the beats name, take all of their previous customers and get some new ones


 
 Sounds like you're ready to get your wallet flogged.


----------



## Makiah S

stand said:


> Sounds like you're ready to get your wallet flogged.


 
 NOPE :3, I've never been an Apple fan and I have no intention of buying any more gear, I've found a nice stopping point for my portable and At home rigs, I don't do streaming because I live in an area where... theres a LOT of trees and celluarphones never have service lol, I would how ever LOVE to get a job in the industry so... my wallet can get flogged with dollar bills xD
  
 but I'm good where I'm at with my headphones, I'm just waiting to see what the market does... but there's not really anything outside of the Hm901, and LCD X and XC that I desire to own... that and maybe an Audio GD REF 10.32, so for me for now... I'm either going to invest $5000 into new gear OR enjoy what I have [I'm leaning to enjoying what I have atm lol]


----------



## kurochin

So Apple, often a company that gets accused for being style over substance, goes out and buys the one brand that epitomizes everything they get accused for....
  
 From a business standpoint, I'm sure there's some method to this madness. But from a branding standpoint, it's as tacky as a footballer's wife in a Range Rover.


----------



## StanD

mshenay said:


> NOPE :3, I've never been an Apple fan and I have no intention of buying any more gear, I've found a nice stopping point for my portable and At home rigs, I don't do streaming because I live in an area where... theres a LOT of trees and celluarphones never have service lol, I would how ever LOVE to get a job in the industry so... my wallet can get flogged with dollar bills xD
> 
> but I'm good where I'm at with my headphones, I'm just waiting to see what the market does... but there's not really anything outside of the Hm901, and LCD X and XC that I desire to own... that and maybe an Audio GD REF 10.32, so for me for now... I'm either going to invest $5000 into new gear OR enjoy what I have [I'm leaning to enjoying what I have atm lol]


 
 So then, you have no intention of helping the eco*money*? I guess that we'll have to leave it to Forest Gump, he did invest in that fruit company.


----------



## linglingjr

I heard about this from some hipster apple fan on facebook.  "Steve Jobs would have _NEVER_ done this."  Gotta love the reactions.  
  
 To be honest I don't think it will effect anyone on here very much other then beats maybe becoming a more hi fi.  The revenue that AKG and Sennheiser bring in is nothing compared to Apple and Beats.  They'll continue to make a ton of money and other audio brands will continue to make products for their much smaller and different audience.  
  
 If Apple plans on turning Beats into something to compete with real high end cans I don't think everyone will suddenly become ultra concerned with sound quality.  Just my uneducated opinion :3


----------



## Makiah S

linglingjr said:


> I heard about this from some hipster apple fan on facebook.  "Steve Jobs would have _NEVER_ done this."  Gotta love the reactions.
> 
> To be honest I don't think it will effect anyone on here very much other then beats maybe becoming a more hi fi.  The revenue that AKG and Sennheiser bring in is nothing compared to Apple and Beats.  They'll continue to make a ton of money and other audio brands will continue to make products for their much smaller and different audience.
> 
> If Apple plans on turning Beats into something to compete with real high end cans I don't think everyone will suddenly become ultra concerned with sound quality.  Just my uneducated opinion :3


 
 well I think the market will grow, if only marginally. Yea not one is taking out bank loans to INCREASE PRODUCTION, but it'll be a nice little bonus... that and inbeforethehundredsofwhatsbetterthanmybeatsheadphones or thesedrappleheadphonesjustbrokenowwhat threads pop up... because we already have a ton of people wondering what's better than their third... busted pair of beats headphones...


----------



## Currawong

stand said:


> Isn't $3B off the deep end for this? Their (Beats) Streaming service doesn't have all that many subscribers. As far as manufacturing and engineering, I'd say Apple is well established in these areas and if they wanted to design a headphone they could contract the work to an established headphone company for far less money and get better results. As far as a customer base, Apple is not wanting. This deal, if it goes through, may end up being a major blunder.


 
  
 The iDevices had zero users to start with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


kurochin said:


> So Apple, often a company that gets accused for being style over substance, goes out and buys the one brand that epitomizes everything they get accused for....
> 
> From a business standpoint, I'm sure there's some method to this madness. But from a branding standpoint, it's as tacky as a footballer's wife in a Range Rover.


 
  
 At the start, with Monster making their headphones, most definitely. I don't see many people knocking their current line-up as badly as back then.
  


linglingjr said:


> I heard about this from some hipster apple fan on facebook.  "Steve Jobs would have _NEVER_ done this."  Gotta love the reactions.


 
  
 No, he probably wouldn't have done this either. But he also told everyone not to keep asking what he would have done or wouldn't have done. Though they have created and re-defined multiple markets, something no business has ever done in history, they have to keep evolving or they'll end up where Blackberry did when they didn't see the iPhone as a threat. I think they have to stay in the forefront as a deliverer of content, not just a conduit for content, otherwise it becomes too easy for people to switch to someone else's products.
  
 I do get the feeling that, to a degree, they are buying a brand, but strategically it's clever, more so because I don't doubt they've got something planned they've been working on for years. You guys know there is a keynote coming up shortly?


----------



## kurochin

currawong said:


> I do get the feeling that, to a degree, they are buying a brand, but strategically it's clever, more so because I don't doubt they've got something planned they've been working on for years. You guys know there is a keynote coming up shortly? :eek:




I still don't get the whole "buying the brand" thing. As much as their respective PR departments spin it, the two companies seem to be very different in terms of identity. One is famous for sleekness and Dieter Rams inspired design cues, while the other uses brash colours and celebrity endorsment deals to make a branding statement.

I do know about the upcoming keynote. It's rumored that Apple will announce something to do with "smart home" technology, or the "internet of things" as all the tech journalists call it. Seems plausible, given that most of the tech giants are moving in that direction (as are the hackers - botnet army, baby!!). Looking forward to that, as cautious as I am about the security and privacy risks.


----------



## Silent Xaxal

Buying the brand is mostly a means of updating image. Especially now, in a time where more and more people are moving to Apple's competition, a move such as this is viewed as a good thing from a brand standpoint.


----------



## StanD

Quote:
 Originally Posted by *StanD* 


  
 Isn't $3B off the deep end for this? Their (Beats) Streaming service doesn't have all that many subscribers. As far as manufacturing and engineering, I'd say Apple is well established in these areas and if they wanted to design a headphone they could contract the work to an established headphone company for far less money and get better results. As far as a customer base, Apple is not wanting. This deal, if it goes through, may end up being a major blunder.


currawong said:


> The iDevices had zero users to start with.


 
 They've grown since then 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a whole lot. Today's another story. Apple already has relationships with musical content providers for sales via iTunes. The brand is so well established that I don't think that they need Dre and company's name to attract or forge any business deals or alliances. Articles that I've read indicate that Beats' music streaming service has not been very sucessful at picking up subscribers. So will we ever see a picture of you headbanging while wearing a set of Beats?


----------



## god-bluff

Why are Beats even discussed here.
  
 They have nothing to do with headphones or music appreciation. Just tacky over priced fashion accessories for guillable wannabe gangstas, drug dealers or PL footballers who follow fashion like sheep and have zero individuality. They're the headphone equivalent of a blacked out Range Rover Sport on 22" chrome alloys.
  
 Whenever I go to London I am amazed to see idiots on buses wearing these *over* a beanie with the hat actually pulled over their ears, *Beats actually worn over the material !* Presumably this tactic increases the bass response as well as being a really cool look. I would have laughed but there's always the chance of being stabbed. Nothing sums up better for me what Beats are all about.
  
 Whatever you say about Apple (i have 2 ipod classics, nothing better out there imo) they make beautifully deigned functional products that work almost indefinitely. They are the complete opposite of Beats which serve no function and are hideously designed rubbish.
  
 Anyway sorry, enough of my rant. as you may have gathered  I am not a fan and haven't a clue what Apple are thinking, if they actually value their brand.


----------



## Hapster

Wat


----------



## mcandmar

Not sure if anybody has said this, but the acquisition has nothing to do with headphones and everything to do with Beats streaming service.  i.e. the pay to download a track model is going the way of the Dodo with on demand streaming services like Spotify growing market share, Apple NEEDS to get in on the act asap.


----------



## god-bluff

mcandmar said:


> Not sure if anybody has said this, but the acquisition has nothing to do with headphones and everything to do with Beats streaming service.  i.e. the pay to download a track model is going the way of the Dodo with on demand streaming services like Spotify growing market share, Apple NEEDS to get in on the act asap.


 
 Maybe ,but in my opinion to even be associated with the name 'Beats' devalues the brand. Surely they don't need Beats to get in to the streaming market, they have Itunes already which is quite well known.
 This is coming from an old git someone who still buys CDs of course and isn't an expert (I do occasionally use Spotify and Tunein radio though)


----------



## ComradeDylie

Perfect match for apple.
  
 They get a great streaming service, MOG 2.0, to help flesh out their iTunes offerings package.
  
 The sound quality on beats is not that bad.  There is a premium paid for style and logo but all things considered the beats lineup is a big sq improvement for apple, and gets some pretty good noise canceling tech to boot.
  
 C'mon how is this even surprising?
  
 Apple stuff costs more because....it has the apple logo and people think their products look cool, work well enough, are easy enough to operate, most "experts" say the products are high quality and not because the performance or hardware is better/more costly.
  
 Beats stuff costs what it does for the exact same reasons!  
  
 As far as I can see this will be a match made in heaven, greatly improving the offerings of both sides most likely.


----------



## Hapster

Yay.


----------



## Makiah S

396629 said:


> Maybe ,but in my opinion to even be associated with the name 'Beats' devalues the brand. Surely they don't need Beats to get in to the streaming market, they have Itunes already which is quite well known.
> This is coming from an old git someone who still buys CDs of course and isn't an expert (I do occasionally use Spotify and Tunein radio though)


 
  
  


comradedylie said:


> Perfect match for apple.
> 
> They get a great streaming service, MOG 2.0, to help flesh out their iTunes offerings package.
> 
> ...


 
 exactly, this is a smart move for apple they are going to get pretty stankin rich! Yea Jobs might be rolling over in his grave... but that will only be because some one's diggin it up to make room for a new wing of Apple INC lol


----------



## StanD

mcandmar said:


> Not sure if anybody has said this, but the acquisition has nothing to do with headphones and everything to do with Beats streaming service.  i.e. the pay to download a track model is going the way of the Dodo with on demand streaming services like Spotify growing market share, Apple NEEDS to get in on the act asap.


 
 If that's the case Tim Cooke has to get his head examined. Beats Streaming Music is a desert island, they've failed to attract many paying customers.


----------



## Sonido

And so the Apple era begins...

http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/29/beats-solo-2-headphones/


----------



## Redcarmoose

sonido said:


> And so the Apple era begins...
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/29/beats-solo-2-headphones/[/
> 
> ...


----------



## CantScareMe

Probably took them less than half an hour to make that headphone sound better. Some solder a screwdriver and probably (if you like jeremy clarkson) a hammer too.


----------



## thievesarmy

sonido said:


> And so the Apple era begins...
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/29/beats-solo-2-headphones/


 
  
 gross color, and I'm not a fan of shiny plastic, but maybe it would look better in a different hue.
  
 and that's certainly NOT Apple/Ive industrial design. Don't think we'll see any of that in Beats for awhile.


----------



## thievesarmy

mcandmar said:


> Not sure if anybody has said this, but the acquisition has nothing to do with headphones and everything to do with Beats streaming service.  i.e. the pay to download a track model is going the way of the Dodo with on demand streaming services like Spotify growing market share, Apple NEEDS to get in on the act asap.


 
  
 Bull. It wasn't JUST about the service. If that were the case they could have gotten Spotify for around the same price (maybe less) and instantly become the market leader w/ 10 Mil+ paying subscribers. Instead of going that route, they bought a PROFITABLE "wearables" company, which is something Apple has intense interest in. Plus they got "Jimmy and Dre", as well as the other people at Beats music (formerly MOG) like Ian Rogers & Trent Reznor. The actual service on its own without the people is _something_, but it's a distant 2nd to Spotify, so it wasn't JUST about that. It was a package deal, with the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.


----------



## thievesarmy

*Beats Breakdown* (from MacRumors.com):
  
_As it turns out, Apple is paying slightly less than $500 million for the Beats Music streaming service, with the bulk of the money ($2.5B) going towards the purchase of Beats Electronics, which includes the company's popular line of headphones and speakers. _
 ...
_At yesterday's Code Conference, Beats co-founder Jimmy Iovine revealed that the service has 250,000 subscribers in the United States, a small number compared to Spotify's 10 million worldwide listeners._


----------



## StanD

What a bad deal, I'd say that Apple got beat.


----------



## Hapster

stand said:


> What a bad deal, I'd say that Apple got beat.


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## ruthieandjohn

Think what you might... both Apple and Beats paid meticulous attention to the whole user experience, not just the technology inside the cases of their products.
  
 Apple, of course, with:
  

Clean design with minimum buttons and tremendous ease of use;
An entire work environment (iTunes and the Apple App Store) with automatic synchronization across multiple Apple devices;
Innovative human/machine interfaces, such as Siri speech recognition, and the first wide-spread use of ultra-high-definition displays (the Retina) while increasing portability by decreasing weight and thickness.
  
 And Beats, with:
  

Headphones that are both attractive and simple to use, assuring that their plugs will fit into Apple products even through iPhone cases and the like (try to fit a Sennheiser 1/8" plug into the little hole on an iPhone case to see what I mean);
Headphones that are light weight enough to stay put and comfortable to wear;
Headphones that accommodate the whole portable music scene, with attractive boxing, carrying cases, and multiple plugs.
  
 Neither Apple nor Beats are generally where leading edge technology will first appear.  But both pay far more attention to improving the entire usage experience, not just the data sheet specs, of their products.
  
 I have 6 Beats systems (Beats Pro HP, Beats Studio 2013, Beats Studio Wireless 2013, HeartBeats IEMs, Beats Music, and Beats Automotive stereo), and 8 Apple systems (iPad Air, iPad original, iPod Classic, iPod Touch 5th gen, iPod Touch 4th Gen, iPhone 4, and iPhone 5, and iPod nano).


----------



## daerron

Can anyone say "iBeats! Coming to an iPhone near you!
  
 I doubt Beats headphones had much to do with it, though it is a profitable business with high visibility. Funnily enough our local iStores don't sell any Beats products at all in their stores, I guess that will change soon.
 Personally I think Apple were more after the two founders of Beats. I suspect we are going to see a move to music album and single exclusives in a battle of music eco systems (much like the console games exclusives wars), then you need high profile music industry vets to boost your profile. Also a good chance that Apple could launch their own music label and change the way the industry does business?


----------



## StanD

ruthieandjohn said:


> Think what you might... both Apple and Beats paid meticulous attention to the whole user experience, not just the technology inside the cases of their products.
> 
> Apple, of course, with:
> 
> ...


 
 Not everyone would consider the SQ nor the Price/Performance of Beats to be a good user experience.


----------



## ruthieandjohn

stand said:


> Not everyone would consider the SQ nor the Price/Performance of Beats to be a good user experience.



Agreed. Likewise for Apple.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Not everyone would consider the SQ nor the Price/Performance of Beats to be a good user experience.


 
  
  


ruthieandjohn said:


> Agreed. Likewise for Apple.


 
 I will say other than possible issues with storage space the latest iPod Touch 5G is rather good but getting a bit pricey once you opt for more SSD. The DAC and Amp are excellent, although if you need gobs of power the internal Amp isn't going to deliver. That said, it does a rather good job with HD600's. And using the CCK it's easy to hook up to an external DAC, etc.


----------



## eugenius

Come on!
  
 Somebody in the Apple marketing dept. thought: what's the other company that succeeded at gouging their customers better than we do? 'cause we have 100 B$ in the bank - better we buy them today or we'll compete against them tomorrow ...
  
 We also get the fools who bought into both brands, those are the extra juicy fools. 
  
 Smoosh! Smoosh!


----------



## Makiah S

eugenius said:


> Come on!
> 
> Somebody in the Apple marketing dept. thought: who's the other company that has succeeded in gouging their customers better than we do? 'cause we have 100 B$ in the bank - better we buy them today or we'll compete against them tomorrow ...
> 
> ...


 
 ... it's a little crude but yea... this pretty much sums it up. In both cases Apple and Beats offer very "plug n Play" products, products that are very simple to use, while I feel Apples price is more justified than Beats... in both cases consumers purchase the brands for reasons outside of JUST  performance


----------



## eugenius

Yeah! Can you imagine a BeatsiPhone? It'll be like the HTC One all over again.


----------



## StanD

When this goes belly up, I think the shareholders will be more than just annoyed. They might have preferred getting a nice dividend rather than flushing $3B down the toilet.


----------



## Hapster

eugenius said:


> Yeah! Can you imagine a BeatsiPhone? It'll be like the HTC One all over again.




Good thing we all have dacs then. Simply just bypass it


----------



## daerron

Well Apple could have bought Whatsapp for $19 billion.... They were under pressure for sitting on a big pile of cash and not looking particularly innovative. In the context of that at least this make some sense on a certain level, though if it was my money I would rather have purchased Sennheiser and have them churn out fashionable headphones. Goes to show that this is more about the Beats service and getting some creative thinking and industry know how on board.


----------



## Hapster

daerron said:


> Well Apple could have bought Whatsapp for $19 billion.... They were under pressure for sitting on a big pile of cash and not looking particularly innovative. In the context of that at least this make some sense on a certain level, though if it was my money I would rather have purchased Sennheiser and have them churn out fashionable headphones. Goes to show that this is more about the Beats service and getting some creative thinking and industry know how on board.




Not at all, sennheiser has such low brand recognitiom compared to beats, especially to the audience of apple. 

You tell your friend you bought a pair of beats, they'll say "sweet dude"

Tell them you bought a pair of sennheisers "what the hell is that? Just buy beats dude, they're really loud."


----------



## Makiah S

hapster said:


> Not at all, sennheiser has such low brand recognitiom compared to beats, especially to the audience of apple.
> 
> You tell your friend you bought a pair of beats, they'll say "sweet dude"
> 
> Tell them you bought a pair of sennheisers "what the hell is that? Just buy beats dude, they're really loud."


 
 ding ding ding!


----------



## Currawong

stand said:


> When this goes belly up, I think the shareholders will be more than just annoyed. They might have preferred getting a nice dividend rather than flushing $3B down the toilet.


 
  
 Beats earns $1.3B a year. Apple don't have to do anything to get a return on their investment.


----------



## thievesarmy

daerron said:


> Well Apple could have bought Whatsapp for $19 billion.... They were under pressure for sitting on a big pile of cash and not looking particularly innovative. In the context of that at least this make some sense on a certain level, though if it was my money I would rather have purchased Sennheiser and have them churn out fashionable headphones. Goes to show that this is more about the Beats service and getting some creative thinking and industry know how on board.


 
  
 So Apple buys Sennheiser, one of the most respected brands in audio, and turns them into a Beats wannabe? Churning out "fashionable headphones"? HELL NO. Thank god they didn't do that. At least with this deal, they may actually improve Beats or change their brand, but even if they just let them stay exactly what they are, it will just be Apple having a stake in them, not changing what was previously a well respected innovative company and making them into a trendwhore also-ran.


----------



## thievesarmy

currawong said:


> Beats earns $1.3B a year. Apple don't have to do anything to get a return on their investment.


 
  
 Not to mention the INSANE cash position that Apple has (and has had for quite some time). 
  
 http://www.businessinsider.com/global-cash-reserves-companies-nations-2014-4
  
 #1 with 159 BIL. This deal will barely make a dent, and will pay for itself in short order.


----------



## Makiah S

thievesarmy said:


> So Apple buys Sennheiser, one of the most respected brands in audio, and turns them into a Beats wannabe? Churning out "fashionable headphones"? HELL NO. Thank god they didn't do that. At least with this deal, they may actually improve Beats or change their brand, but even if they just let them stay exactly what they are, it will just be Apple having a stake in them, not changing what was previously a well respected innovative company and making them into a trendwhore also-ran.


 
 Apple could not afford to Buy Sennheiser nor would Sennheiser benifit from a sale, Beats run my... what two Hip Hop Producers? It much better in Appls hands, and the two guys who what owned it, Dre and that other fellow get tons of money. I doubt either of those two have a passion for the technology behind their headphones, yes the two may LOVE music, but not in the way the engineers of Sennhieser do, Beats isn't a headphone you buy for the sound... maybe in a few years it will b but it's more of a nice sound social statement [and a cash cow]


----------



## StanD

currawong said:


> Beats earns $1.3B a year. Apple don't have to do anything to get a return on their investment.


 
 You just ruined my weekend, I think I'm starting to feel ill. And don't you dare say, "Good on'ya," no thanks.


----------



## Currawong

daerron said:


> Well Apple could have bought Whatsapp for $19 billion.... They were under pressure for sitting on a big pile of cash and not looking particularly innovative. In the context of that at least this make some sense on a certain level, though if it was my money I would rather have purchased Sennheiser and have them churn out fashionable headphones. Goes to show that this is more about the Beats service and getting some creative thinking and industry know how on board.


 
  
 When you don't follow the trend of announcing vapourware all the time, or stuff that turns out to be far worse than hyped to be, but are instead busy working on great stuff in secret, a company certainly can look this way. 
  
 They aren't "under pressure" from anyone -- they don't give a toss. Apple are extremely focussed. They know what they want to make and do. They could buy any of a bazillion companies, but none that people are suggesting would make sense. For example, WhatsApp. Why would they buy a messaging service when they already have a successful one?
  
 We're so used to reading rubbish from the press, including rubbish from "market analysts" that we get used to these reactionist ideas about what Apple "should" do. 99% of the time they prove to be wrong. Apple is successful because they say "no" to this kind of thing.


----------



## thievesarmy

mshenay said:


> Apple could not afford to Buy Sennheiser nor would Sennheiser benifit from a sale, Beats run my... what two Hip Hop Producers? It much better in Appls hands, and the two guys who what owned it, Dre and that other fellow get tons of money. I doubt either of those two have a passion for the technology behind their headphones, yes the two may LOVE music, but not in the way the engineers of Sennhieser do, Beats isn't a headphone you buy for the sound... maybe in a few years it will b but it's more of a nice sound social statement [and a cash cow]


 
  
 Apple couldn't afford to buy sennheiser??? What are you talking about?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

thievesarmy said:


> Apple couldn't afford to buy sennheiser??? What are you talking about?


 
 Simple... Apple didn't buy Sennheiser because the Sennheiser 1/8" headphone plugs don't fit into the hole of the Apple iPhone 5S Case... they have a shoulder around the metal plug that is too fat... just like Grado does on their 1/4" to 1/8" converter.
  
 And Apple didn't buy Grado either.
  
 Q.E.D.


----------



## thievesarmy

Haha. You're joking right?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

thievesarmy said:


> Haha. You're joking right?




Gee.... Makes as much sense as some other comments... But yes, I was joking.

(and I DO get irritated at headphone manufacturers who put too-fat shoulders on their plugs. Ever try to take off an iPhone 5S case? Maybe they pretend to be back in Olden Times, before there was an iPhone, before there was portable music, before the transistors, when amplifiers were based on vacuum tubes. Oh wait, that's NOW, for audiophiles!)


----------



## Redcarmoose

Apple could actually give Beats a ruler flat frequency response. 

I would then buy a pair.


----------



## Smarty-pants

redcarmoose said:


> Apple could actually give Beats a ruler flat frequency response.
> 
> I would then buy a pair.




Ya, wouldn't that be nice? Never gonna happen though, because all the gullibles would lose their bass, yo.
It would make a lot more sense to make them that way, and then build in a software EQ to every iDevice and if people want to crank their frequencies permanently,
they could do it with the software. However that would make too much sense.


----------



## Redcarmoose

smarty-pants said:


> Ya, wouldn't that be nice? Never gonna happen though, because all the gullibles would lose their bass, yo.
> It would make a lot more sense to make them that way, and then build in a software EQ to every iDevice and if people want to crank their frequencies permanently,
> they could do it with the software. However that would make too much sense.






Around 1993 Panasonic had active portable "Shock-wave" bass headphone player that became bass head shakers at a flick of a switch. No reason they couldn't make a flat frequency response that could then be additional amp modified.


----------



## daerron

Sennheiser as a label with the general public might not have a lot of clout, but there would be nothing stopping Apple from putting on their own branding. It would be a solid entry into high-end IEMs as well. Could even be used to promote and bundle accessories with their music recording programs. This is really where I would like to see Apple regaining the innovation initiative. Also wasn't suggesting that Apple buy Whatsapp. Was just noting the general trend with tech companies splashing ridiculous sums of money on stuff of dubious value. I hope this trend is not an indication of the start of long period without real innovation happening. This crazy buying going on seems like big companies trying to hedge their bets where the next money maker is going to come from.
  
 Apple used as a rule, to only invest in companies that would add value to them, especially in the long term. Guess it is easier making poor sounding headphones better, than trying build a brand from scratch. People were asking when Apple was going to get into the acquisition game with everybody buying companies left, right and centre. So Apple buys a very public brand with a guaranteed revenue spinner, pretty smart, though conservative, but will let the CEO keep his job and keeps the shareholders at bay for the time being.


----------



## Currawong

I think Tyll's analysis over at Innerfidelity about this being about hearables is a pretty good one actually.


----------



## daerron

"Hearables" are the ultimate in why I think technology companies have run out of ideas. Just like Oculus Rift in a way. Fitness fanatics and athletes might like it, but face it, the world is not getting fitter, its getting lazier. CTOs need to watch "Wall-E" and plan accordingly.


----------



## Makiah S

thievesarmy said:


> Apple couldn't afford to buy sennheiser??? What are you talking about?


 
 Yea, they couldn't afford to, what could Apple offer Sennheiser... money? I think Sennheiser already has enough of that and they have what appears to be a very steady market presance, I don't see Sennhesier as a company established soley for the pourpose of making money, I think they along with Beyer and AKG have a group of employee's who are hopefully as dedicated to the pursuit of headphones and high end sound, and they've made a good buisness doing what they hopefully have a passion for
  
 Beats on the other hand did not arrise out of a passion for sound, I mean DR. Dre was THRILLED to be the first billionare in the hip hop buisness, he's cleary more interested in money than how his headphones sound, and honestly there's nothing wrong with that. He had and still has a very prosperous buisness and he sold his buisness for a nice sum, I think for him it's a smart move
  
 now for, Sennheiser, AKG and Beyer along with Audio Technica and the other serious audio companies, I don't think Apple has anything to offer them, a partnership maybe but an outright buy out I don't think they'll have any traction to do so 
  


daerron said:


> "Hearables" are the ultimate in why I think technology companies have run out of ideas. Just like Oculus Rift in a way. Fitness fanatics and athletes might like it, but face it, the world is not getting fitter, its getting lazier. CTOs need to watch "Wall-E" and plan accordingly.


 
 Yea I also think the Hearables is what they intend to do with it, and yea that also worries me. Not to mention when people complicate things, issue arrise. I like my headphones to simply play music


----------



## Silent Xaxal

daerron said:


> "Hearables" are the ultimate in why I think technology companies have run out of ideas. Just like Oculus Rift in a way. Fitness fanatics and athletes might like it, but face it, the world is not getting fitter, its getting lazier. CTOs need to watch "Wall-E" and plan accordingly.


 
  
 You clearly haven't been to many places/countries or met that diverse a group of people.


----------



## StanD

"Hearables for the audibely challenged"
 My ears are ringing at the thought of the outcome.


----------



## Mikeybear

I've never understood why the iPhone/iOS doesn't offer equalization like the iTunes app does. Seems like the hardware on the iPhone would be up to the task, no? When listening using iTunes I will sometimes tweak a little depending on which phones I'm using and if there is a particularly heinous-sounding recording I'm listening to. No way to do this on an iPhone.


----------



## Hapster

mikeybear said:


> I've never understood why the iPhone/iOS doesn't offer equalization like the iTunes app does. Seems like the hardware on the iPhone would be up to the task, no? When listening using iTunes I will sometimes tweak a little depending on which phones I'm using and if there is a particularly heinous-sounding recording I'm listening to. No way to do this on an iPhone.



Use the Denon Club app, never look back. I prefer it infinitely more than the stock music app. Costs $1.99 for eq.


----------



## Mikeybear

Thanks for the tip. Will try the app.


----------



## Mikeybear

Isn't it ironic that Apple, never known for high audio quality 'phones/buds, has acquired a company that also makes less-than-optimal audio quality 'phones?
  
 I can only hope that perhaps the Beats line will come out with models geared to listeners with discerning ears. (Not that I will probably ever considering buying Beats phones. I value sound quality way more than making a style statement with trendy, overpriced bling.)


----------



## Makiah S

mikeybear said:


> Isn't it ironic that Apple, never known for high audio quality 'phones/buds, has acquired a company that also makes less-than-optimal audio quality 'phones?
> 
> I can only hope that perhaps the Beats line will come out with models geared to listeners with discerning ears. (Not that I will probably ever considering buying Beats phones. I value sound quality way more than making a style statement with trendy, overpriced bling.)


 
 I know right, quality of music reproduction has never been Apples First priority, and it won't be. Apple needs and wants to give their customers the best of everything, the simplest solution to any problem, it's that simplicity and elegance that leaves consumers LOVING or HATING apple.
  
 Beats is a very friendly company for Apple to intergrate into it's overall concept, going back to Seenhesier, what would Apple do with 3-4 headphones that work best with an amp? Sennhesiers buisness isn't "Apple Friendly" the solve the problem of "high quaity qudio reproduction" with a some what complicated answer, IE get the best Headphone and pair it with equally GOOD Dacs, Amps ect...
  
 Apple on the other hand, solves the problem of "high quality Audio reproduction" with a sufficent and effiecient solution, IE use high quality wolfson Dacs, and optimize play back for use with low impdeance headphones oh and it HAS TO BE SEXY, beats is just that. Low impdeance, easy to drive and it looks good, all Apple has to do now is tune them a little differently which Beats old parent company Monster, has been doing with it's own headphones. 
  
 I think Apple stands to give Monster some compeition,


----------



## ruthieandjohn




----------



## achristilaw

Your just witnessing the beginning of the demise of Apple. Without the former head and focused direction? Mistakes were bound to be made............


----------



## StanD

achristilaw said:


> Your just witnessing the beginning of the demise of Apple. Without the former head and focused direction? Mistakes were bound to be made............


 
 Isn't it nice to be able to blow $3B, piss off your stockholders and still have about $150B left over?


----------



## StoneJack

mikeybear said:


> I've never understood why the iPhone/iOS doesn't offer equalization like the iTunes app does. Seems like the hardware on the iPhone would be up to the task, no? When listening using iTunes I will sometimes tweak a little depending on which phones I'm using and if there is a particularly heinous-sounding recording I'm listening to. No way to do this on an iPhone.


 
 There is built in equalizer with profiles in the settings app in iOS.
 Also you can use free apps that allow you to customize your settings even according to your headphone (they have a database of headphones and best profiles for them). I use Groove which is great for me, but you can use Beat, Denon, Onkyo  and about thousand others you may wish


----------



## Redcarmoose

stonejack said:


> There is built in equalizer with profiles in the settings app in iOS.
> Also you can use free apps that allow you to customize your settings even according to your headphone (they have a database of headphones and best profiles for them). I use Groove which is great for me, but you can use Beat, Denon, Onkyo  and about thousand others you may wish





I hope that we may see EQ in iOS8 being released maybe tomorrow?


----------



## StoneJack

Now, while Apple's own earbuds not bad at all (some say even one of best in their price category), there is a lot of room for improvement. Apple surely would need some help in this field, and best probably would be to OEM Beats IEMs, but with better, not bass-heavy sound. Beats Tour IEM with active noise canceling have very good reviews on amazon, I would imagine something like that might be incorporated in Apple earbuds. Also


----------



## StoneJack

redcarmoose said:


> I hope that we may see EQ in iOS8 being released maybe tomorrow?


 
 Man, you already have hundreds of apps for iOS with equalizer and built in equalizer in OS7 works too. Not sure what you asking for, its already there.


----------



## Redcarmoose

stonejack said:


> Man, you already have hundreds of apps for iOS with equalizer and built in equalizer in OS7 works too. Not sure what you asking for, its already there.





The original post was just asking for a multi band in an iOS phone or iPod playback. Just a statement that it may become a reality. I know aftermarket apps do it now.


----------



## linglingjr

stonejack said:


> and best probably would be to OEM Beats IEMs, but with better, not bass-heavy sound.


 
 I don't know if they would ever want to bundle beats products with their phones/tablets.  I think so much of their brand image would be lost doing that with every phone sold.  Buy a mac book and get a free pair of beats? Sure that would seem acceptable by their standards but I'm sure designers/marketing at apple take pride in seeing all these people walking around the streets with ibuds (or whatever you call them) hanging out of their ear.


----------



## JeremyLaurenson

Apple buys Beats.
  
 I groan... indication that Apple is even less interested in good music quality than aI thought....
  
 But then last night I listen to the entirety of the interview on Re-Code...
  
 Take a look at the whole interview on Re-Code and listen carefully to what is said... You'll be horrified that Eddy Cue says Beats built "incredible headphones"... we need to take him to task on twitter for that one (@Cue) ... but keep going, most of the discussion is not about headphones, but rather around music, the industry and what Beats brings to Apple.
  
 This is another Pono'esque indication that the industry understands there is a desire for better quality out there.
  
 What was said that resonated with me:

Apple just spent a lot of money (3B) to improve Music on their platform. They're serious.
They bought people with "Ears" who can listen critically and help Apple's engineers make their hardware sound better.
They bought a discovery/curation service run by true professionals -  people who know music.

  
 So, for the vast majority of users out there this will hopefully lead in a year or three to a new line of Macs, iDevices and iTunes which will significantly improve the DACs etc, and provide a much better way to discover new music.
  
 Iovine is also looking to "fix" the implosion of the music industry by reinvigorating it ala Neil Young.... which may be a taller order.
  
 Apple is clearly looking to innovate around the Music experience. Good for us.
  
 Pretty sure Iovine and his boys don't listen on Beats.... and pretty sure they'll push for the entire music delivery from encoding to sound-waves to suck a hell of a lot less... 3B less.


----------



## 1c3d0g

Do *not* overestimate Apple's ability to produce something with audiophile quality, and do *not* underestimate their ability to design something just for the looks of it.


----------



## Silent Xaxal

You know, this and Tyll's analyses would have been viable, had it not been for the fact that Steve Jobs isn't running the show anymore. And do recall that Steve Jobs was pretty adamant against giving any greater emphasis on games on iDevices, only for that to be thrown out the window.


----------



## JeremyLaurenson

Ill happily be lumped in with Tyll... Spending $3B and keeping folks like Reznor around (Whose all over not screwing up quality) will all help push in the right direction.
  
 As usual, we shall see.


----------



## TRapz

I watched a good part of the interview, and they repeated that they loved how Beats sounded- as in, they likely aren't going to change the quality. Beats are okay headphones, but for the price, they could be improved a lot. I've been hearing about how Apple may try to implement hi-res, and if that isn't true, then they explained in the video how they want to have better audio than other companies; my point is, with headphones like these, and no improvements, the higher quality will be wasted. No, I'm not just a Beats hater, I've listened to a few pairs, and I didn't enjoy them. I was really hoping that Apple would plan to improve the SQ of Beats because Apple is a great company, and they're renowned for their quality. The streaming service might be good, but in the headphones department, it seems that it really won't be better for us who enjoy better SQ.


----------



## JeremyLaurenson

I believe this has zero to do with headphones. I don't think they're interested in headphones, they're too personal.
  
 I think they're interested in improving the quality of everything-but-the-headphones.


----------



## Silent Xaxal

I still stand by my and 1c3dog's statements, though.
  
 Though, it would be nice to see easier access to higher quality music. The more people get into hi-fi, the more people will potentially get into the hi-fi scene, which would be great for us and the audio companies we love.


----------



## thievesarmy

jeremylaurenson said:


> I think they're interested in improving the quality of everything-but-the-headphones.


 
  
 Beats has been actively working on improving the audio in their headphones, specifically to address the common criticisms from "audiophiles". That was long before the Apple deal, and I doubt Apple is going to put an end to that. It shouldn't be too long before we see some of the results from this initiative.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

Got a chance to listen to the new Beats Solo2 this weekend. It's much better than the previous one....much.
  
 It's got a problem though: Not enough bass!!!
  
 Ha ha ha ha ha ha!


----------



## RoMee

tyll hertsens said:


> Got a chance to listen to the new Beats Solo2 this weekend. It's much better than the previous one....much.
> 
> *It's got a problem though: Not enough bass!!!*
> 
> Ha ha ha ha ha ha!


 
  
 Beats fanboys is not going to like this, they hate mids.


----------



## kurochin

A new biginning, or the beginning of the end?
 http://www.slashgear.com/apple-lightning-headphones-on-the-horizon-04332021/


----------



## mcandmar

Proprietary headphone interfaces, brilliant. So let me guess, all regular headphone sockets will be removed from future models forcing Apple fan boys to buy their revolutionary new headphone technology


----------



## Koolpep

mcandmar said:


> Proprietary headphone interfaces, brilliant. So let me guess, all regular headphone sockets will be removed from future models forcing Apple fan boys to buy their revolutionary new headphone technology


 
  
 Of course, since Apple likes to do these things. That's why the created the Apple Lossless File Format (ALAC) and made it open source and ROYALTY FREE. And why did they do that? Because ALAC is easier to decode than FLAC and gives Apple devices better energy efficiency. But they didn't stop supporting mp3 or your own CDs.
  
 Since they produce a few hundred million headphones/headsets already every year (every iPod, iPhone etc. comes with one) they could have done that years ago. But they are not.
  
 The headphone jack is not going anywhere. However what's possible is, that you will get better audio quality via the lightning port. Which is something you can already do now with a DAC/Amp and a camera connection kit, though it's a bit bulky. Imagine that kit being integrated in a headphone - that would be smart....
  
 So, you want "superior" quality, you pay for it. THAT does sound more like the apple I know.


----------



## JeremyLaurenson

So now the new news from WWDC is that "Apple has introduced new specifications for manufacturers in the company's Made for iPhone (MFi) program that allow them to create headphones that connect to iOS devices via a Lightning cable rather than a regular 3.5mm headphone jack"
  
Put dat DAC into the Cans... I wonder whats possible here...


----------



## Redcarmoose

This out 16 hours ago. New mfi specs!
  
 http://9to5mac.com/2014/06/03/apple-introduces-mfi-specs-for-lightning-cable-headphones-support-arriving-in-future-ios-update/
  
  
 The Lightning headphones will be capable of receiving lossless stereo 48 kHz digital audio output from Apple devices and sending mono 48 kHz digital audio input. The input means that the headphones will also support a microphone for audio input following Apple’s upcoming update. Manufacturers will be able to take advantage of Apple Headphone Remote controls like Volume Up/Down/etc, as well as other buttons for launching specific apps such as iTunes Radio or initiating playback controls on iOS. In addition, the headphones can be made to work specifically with a companion iOS app and launch a specific app when connected to an iOS device.
  
  
  
  
 The DACs top out at 48kHz. Hopefully we will see HD DACS coming out next year.


----------



## Tyll Hertsens

There's a lot possible here....a LOT!!!
  
 In fact, in this article I wrote prior to the Lightning cable announcement, I propose that headphone jacks on portable devices might simply go away.
  
 It is the most common failure point on those devices; hand-held manufacturers must hate those things.
 Apple patented a flexible 3.5mm plug to reduce jack strain when inadvertently yanked out.
  
 In 20 years (and likely a lot less) a headphone with a cable on it is going to look just as obscure to the common person as a turntable or open-reel deck.


----------



## BeyerMonster

Quote(emphasis mine): 





jeremylaurenson said:


> Spending $3B and _*keeping folks like Reznor around*_ (Whose all over not screwing up quality) will all help push in the right direction.


 
 I wouldn't be so sure:
 http://productionadvice.co.uk/nine-inch-nails/


----------



## linglingjr

shoving a bunch of PCB and a dac into a headphone that will do ANC?  Why not just make it wireless?  I mean you're already stuffing the cups with everything... a battery and bluetooth or some other proprietary wireless transmitter wouldn't hurt.
  
 Woah!!! Some wire can carry 48Khz digital file??? So could usb's for the past how many years?  I bet a lot of people will be very excited about this ground breaking technology "Apple continues to revolutionize the way we hear our music with their ground breaking technology." 
 EDIT: also inb4 the fanboys who claim 48Khz is vastly superior to the 44.1Khz that they've been used to.


----------



## AUDIOBREEDER

So I'm guessing Apple bought the beats because of the new cable attachment and beats would have sold far more units than apple?


----------



## daerron

Not to mention the cable is probably worth more than the headphones. Lightning cables cost a pretty penny.


----------



## Koolpep

I think for really slim devices the 3.5mm headphone jack gets increasingly in the way of design and form factor, so the lightning port can be way to get around this...it's certainly flatter...


----------



## StanD

kurochin said:


> A new biginning, or the beginning of the end?
> http://www.slashgear.com/apple-lightning-headphones-on-the-horizon-04332021/


 
 More overpriced junk?


----------



## ruthieandjohn

Did anyone figure out if this new development will make the actual digital signal available on the lightening connector in a way it can be used, or if it will continue to be converted to an analog "Line In" via a DAC in the connector plug?  Thanks!


----------



## phillkillv2

It's alright guys, Apple will have you covered with an adapter for $30!


----------



## linglingjr

ruthieandjohn said:


> Did anyone figure out if this new development will make the actual digital signal available on the lightening connector in a way it can be used, or if it will continue to be converted to an analog "Line In" via a DAC in the connector plug?  Thanks!


 
 I seriously doubt it.  IIRC companies that want to make DACs for apple products currently need to get some licencing rights or something.  I'm sure someone here can explain it much better than me.


----------



## Hapster

linglingjr said:


> I seriously doubt it.  IIRC companies that want to make DACs for apple products currently need to get some licencing rights or something.  I'm sure someone here can explain it much better than me.


 

 Technically not. Cayin was one of the first to do this, correct me if I'm wrong, but they actually took the components of a lightning camera connector and basically put it on the interior. So while you have V-Moda vamps and whatnot that are $600, cayin (while exclusively an iDevice Dac/amp) remains only $175-200


----------



## Makiah S

Hmm kinda of interesting 
  
 Audio Technica has a headphone that functions as a Dac as well, it's nice to hear their using their Lightingcables along with their new headphones, let's hope the sound is half decent


----------



## ruthieandjohn

In 1980, Dr. Jim Flanagan of Bell Laboratories proposed and then built a transducer that had the DAC built right into the speaker! It was a series of concentriic rings around the membrane, wired appropriately so that based on the combination of bits that were on in the digital sample, the right rings of the speaker would be displaced.

Abstract here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.1538-7305.1980.tb03056.x/abstract

We report initial experiments on voice-band acoustic transducers (receivers) designed to accept digital (pcm) signals and directly convert the received bits into analog acoustic output. We describe experimental designs for 4, 5, and 6-bit digital receivers and for an acoustic system that functions as the desampling filter for the decoded signals. We report measurements on the frequency response, amplitude linearity, and signal-to-quantizing noise for the digital receivers and show that these quantities fall into expected design ranges. Though relatively primitive in their initial forms, the transducers accomplish direct digital conversion with acceptable fidelity and suggest a further means for minimizing per-line equipment complexity in digital voice systems.


----------



## Redcarmoose

redcarmoose said:


> This out 16 hours ago. New mfi specs!
> 
> http://9to5mac.com/2014/06/03/apple-introduces-mfi-specs-for-lightning-cable-headphones-support-arriving-in-future-ios-update/
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 This is what Logitech headsets were doing with USB in 2003? New?


----------



## Makiah S

redcarmoose said:


> This is what Logitech headsets were doing with USB in 2003? New?


 
 ikr, logitech and Audio Technica


----------



## Redcarmoose

mshenay said:


> ikr, logitech and Audio Technica



 




Headphones which do 24/96 DAC will be the cool thing. Just taking the digital out of the I devices and doing in house headphone DA.They will wait till they sell everyone 48 kHz models then release the good ones.lol


Doing it in the headphones would effectively result in a cable-less process leading to higher SQ!


----------



## Makiah S

redcarmoose said:


> mshenay said:
> 
> 
> > ikr, logitech and Audio Technica
> ...


 
 Yeap, classic Apple, re launch something that was unsuccsesfull years ago with their "personal touches" used as a front to sell a more expensive product, force the now "hooked" masses into upgrading 
  
 I'm not opposed to Apple pushing a High Res format forward, nor am I opposed to them starting a line of Headphones with amp/Dacs on board I am how ever opposed to over complicating music playback, in a sense it's simplified, but when one of those headphones goes down, will apple offer to fix it? If so kudos to them, 
  
 it'll be interesting to hear how these new devices sound


----------



## linglingjr

mshenay said:


> it'll be interesting to hear how these new devices sound


 
 It absolutely will be but I don't think Apple will be able to make sound quality "cool"  They can advertise it as being" ultra high, none compressed, studio quality" just like beats has done but it's a lot more profitable to advertise your products like that without actually pouring money into the R&D to make them sound that way.  All the money they would pour into making headphones sound amazing would be a waste of money when they could change nothing and still sell 99.999% as many cans.
  
 I don't think sound quality will ever be something that a 'mainstream' market is really concerned with.  Could you imagine average consumers with 24/96 tracks?  "This is bull, I can only fit 200 songs on my phone."


----------



## StanD

linglingjr said:


> I seriously doubt it.  IIRC companies that want to make DACs for apple products currently need to get some licencing rights or something.  I'm sure someone here can explain it much better than me.


 
 I don't think this is true any longer. I can attach my iPod Touch 5G to my Schiit Uber Bifrost USB DAC using a Lightning CCK cable and a powered USB Hub. Works perfectly. I believe in IOS 7, possibly somewhere along IOS 6 that Apple adopted a proper USB Audio Spec 2. I've also attached it to USB Audio Spec 1 DACs as well. Apparently someone at Apple came to their senses.


----------



## Redcarmoose

linglingjr said:


> It absolutely will be but I don't think Apple will be able to make sound quality "cool"  They can advertise it as being" ultra high, none compressed, studio quality" just like beats has done but it's a lot more profitable to advertise your products like that without actually pouring money into the R&D to make them sound that way.  All the money they would pour into making headphones sound amazing would be a waste of money when they could change nothing and still sell 99.999% as many cans.
> 
> I don't think sound quality will ever be something that a 'mainstream' market is really concerned with.  Could you imagine average consumers with 24/96 tracks?  "This is bull, I can only fit 200 songs on my phone."



The only positive trend I see is that their iPods and iPhones have had a slow and gradual change into ruler flat audiophile units. Not saying 48 kHz is that great but the iPhone 4 and Touch iPod 5 sound good to my ears. So I think they are moving in a low level audiophile direction but spending money on all the new developments that you hear about in iOS 8 like home network controlers for your toaster.


----------



## Redcarmoose




----------



## Currawong

I merged both threads on this. I strongly recommend watching the interview linked in the post below if you want to understand what went on and what is going on.
  
 Quote:


jeremylaurenson said:


> Apple buys Beats.
> 
> I groan... indication that Apple is even less interested in good music quality than aI thought....
> 
> ...


----------



## Makiah S

redcarmoose said:


>




 No word about Beats outside the phone call, 
  
 Oh yea, HEY my phone now controls my house! SUCH a safe idea! yea... no me gusta. I still like having analog systems in my home, but that's not relveant to thread
  
 non the less, let's hope we see a reVamp of itunes in the furture


----------



## daerron

I am sure the aim is to eventually have all our heads connected to the iCloud. Then we can be in many places at the same time and have are thoughts synchronised! The Beats acquisition is starting to make sense.


----------



## Koolpep

daerron said:


> I'd like my head to be connected to the iCloud. Then I can be in many places at the same time and have all my thoughts synchronised! A Beats headphone that could do that would be truly amazing.


 
  
 Oh, then I want to become Johnny Mnemonic.
  
 Now to something completely different:
  
 Everybody chill out. We will know when and IF Apple will do something, when they do. I wonder how so many people get so excited or angry about something hypothetical. The only fact is that even for existing iPhones, iPads you will be able to use the lightning port in a batter and new way. That's it. New feature for existing hardware. What's not to like....


----------



## daerron

I have watched the video and from my perspective it seems like Apple is trying to fix the music industry with this acquisition. Essentially it is a battle about quality, copyright and compensation, a model that was broken with the advent of the iPod with MP3 music and one that the industry have been unable to fix since then. You could argue that it was broken before then.
  
 Essentially they are arguing that music has become a fast food industry and Apple would like it to become restaurant food again with the promise that people would pay good money for restaurant food and compensate artists accordingly. Artists don't want to create restaurant food whilst being compensated with fast food money. It is kind of a chicken and egg problem. Apple is hoping through the leverage of Beats products to get end users to want a taste for restaurant food, that it will kick start this process, and that having the possibility of enjoying your higher class food anywhere will make it irresistible and that everyone will be happy. I guess its tough to say whether this will happen. People like fast food.


----------



## Redcarmoose

mshenay said:


> No word about Beats outside the phone call,
> 
> Oh yea, HEY my phone now controls my house! SUCH a safe idea! yea... no me gusta. I still like having analog systems in my home, but that's not relveant to thread
> 
> non the less, let's hope we see a reVamp of itunes in the furture


 
 I will use it when they can remotely control my Wife!


----------



## StanD

When not in striking range of WiFi your Mobile minutes will skyrocket if you listen to music in the cloud. Most carriers have dumped the all you can eat plan for cellular data. Living in the cloud with music will be too expensive for most people. Unless this changes very soon, this will be problematic for that business plan.


----------



## Makiah S

stand said:


> When not in striking range of WiFi your Mobile minutes will skyrocket if you listen to music in the cloud. Most carriers have dumped the all you can eat plan for cellular data. Living in the cloud with music will be too expensive for most people. Unless this changes very soon, this will be problematic for that business plan.


 
 that is some what true, but you do know that there is a new wirless standard right? 802.11ac, 3 times as fast as the N standard with more range... :\ with home wireless interenet moving to "5g" speeds there's a chance we will start to see more celluar plans running of wifi, as opposed to those big ole celluar towers, but for now yea mobile plans are going to guage their customers


----------



## StanD

mshenay said:


> that is some what true, but you do know that there is a new wirless standard right? 802.11ac, 3 times as fast as the N standard with more range... :\ with home wireless interenet moving to "5g" speeds there's a chance we will start to see more celluar plans running of wifi, as opposed to those big ole celluar towers, but for now yea mobile plans are going to guage their customers


 
 Last summer I got my wife into streaming with Google All Access. She didn't listen to the part I explained about caching playlists onto one's device when at home on wifi. She tore through 2 GB in just a couple of days at the beach. Now she knows better, explore the cloud at home on wifi and listen to cached playlists or cached albums when on the road.


----------



## AUDIOBREEDER

Beats founder must be scratching his head, thinking why he went through this deal cause he could have made double of what was paid.


----------



## vantt1

Let's see what they have to offer in their new Beats Pro. Any time now! It'd better be something revolutionary and innovative.


----------



## Redcarmoose

I just read the Forbs artical about Apple doing away with the headphone jack in favor of lighting headphones only.

Forbs as a publication seems to have lowered itself to National Enquirer level of reporting with pure sensationalism just to get readers. 

People love to complain about any new changes when most changes have been beneficial over all. Anyone with iPhones or an iPod knows how those 30 pin connectors broke. The lightning connector really seems nice. If Apple does away with the TRS mini- jack they would lose business so I speculate it will not happen.


----------



## whatisjitter

Quote from the thread "Pointless Thread Titled "Apple to Abandon Headphone Jack?" to Stay Open?" 
 Thanks for locking it by the way, it really was pointless!
  
 by Currawong
 Quote:


> *sigh*
> 
> The title is (after they modified it, as it was originally a false statement):
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am not so sure about that. If it is done right Apple could be the big winner of the whole thing since they earn money from every single MFi headphone sold. Living currently in the US I totally see this working because people will just believe that the new lightning standard is a great Apple invention. There are going to be the earbuds shipped with the iPhone so around 60% of the customers won't care anyways because earbuds are good enough for them. Furthermore, most people around me haven't invested more than $60 in headphones so compared to the $800 for a new phone it is going to be easy to acquire new headphones.
  
 In terms of design the 3.5mm headphonejack is a bottleneck when it comes to the slimness of a device. I don't really think you can below 6mm total thickness if you have such a plug and I totally see Apple trying to make their iPhone thinner than this.
  
 It's still a rumor but to me it makes a lot of sense.


----------



## vantt1

redcarmoose said:


> I just read the Forbs artical about Apple doing away with the headphone jack in favor of lighting headphones only.
> 
> Forbs as a publication seems to have lowered itself to National Enquirer level of reporting with pure sensationalism just to get readers.
> 
> People love to complain about any new changes when most changes have been beneficial over all. Anyone with iPhones or an iPod knows how those 30 pin connectors broke. The lightning connector really seems nice. If Apple does away with the TRS mini- jack they would lose business so I speculate it will not happen.


  

 Yep.
  


> Originally posted by *Currawong* /img/forum/go_quote.gif *sigh*
> 
> The title is (after they modified it, as it was originally a false statement):
> 
> ...


----------



## Currawong

whatisjitter said:


> It's still a rumor but to me it makes a lot of sense.


 
  
 From the Wiki I linked to (though this quote was referring to a Techcrunch article):
  


> This story is a great demonstration of my maxim that any headline which ends in a question mark can be answered by the word "no". The reason why journalists use that style of headline is that they know the story is probably ********, and don’t actually have the sources and facts to back it up, but still want to run it.


 
  
 Plus what @Redcarmoose said.
  
 Just remember that, for the purposes of any news service, Apple only exists to generate headlines to sell newspapers or ads. That is why, when Apple hasn't done anything newsworthy for a while, they start posting negative stuff about Apple, with quotes from brain-dead analysts or "market share" statistics, or any comparison with any other brand.


----------



## eugenius

Next week, Apple to abandon Ethernet and/or USB.


----------



## vantt1

Substituting it with Thunderbolt


----------



## whatisjitter

eugenius said:


> Next week, Apple to abandon Ethernet and/or USB.


 
  
 "The new models omit Ethernet and FireWire 800 ports, though Apple offers Thunderbolt adapters for both interfaces."
  
 Ethernet is gone since mid 2012. I think they would love to get rid of USB and replace it with thunderbolt - for the MFi reasons.
  
 edit: I am talking about the MacBooks above
  


vantt1 said:


> Substituting it with Thunderbolt


----------



## kurochin

The new cylindrical/dustbin styled Mac Pro models still come with ethernet ports, though. They come with two, in fact.


----------



## thatBeatsguy

kurochin said:


> The new cylindrical/dustbin styled Mac Pro models still come with ethernet ports, though. They come with two, in fact.


 
 Not only that, they support Gigabit Ethernet too.
 They also come with USB 3.0 ports, IIRC.


----------



## Silent Xaxal

whatisjitter said:


> I am not so sure about that. If it is done right Apple could be the big winner of the whole thing since they earn money from every single MFi headphone sold. Living currently in the US I totally see this working because people will just believe that the new lightning standard is a great Apple invention. There are going to be the earbuds shipped with the iPhone so around 60% of the customers won't care anyways because earbuds are good enough for them. Furthermore, most people around me haven't invested more than $60 in headphones so compared to the $800 for a new phone it is going to be easy to acquire new headphones.
> 
> In terms of design the 3.5mm headphonejack is a bottleneck when it comes to the slimness of a device. I don't really think you can below 6mm total thickness if you have such a plug and I totally see Apple trying to make their iPhone thinner than this.
> 
> It's still a rumor but to me it makes a lot of sense.


 
  
 For this to work, they'd need to start licensing out Lightning to other companies. Your analysis fails to take into consideration that Apple hasn't seen as much userbase growth as say Windows Phone (The numbers will surprise you) or Android.
  
 If anything, this move could eventually end up being similar to when Sony and Samsung were running proprietary standards for their devices.


----------



## Redcarmoose

silent xaxal said:


> For this to work, they'd need to start licensing out Lightning to other companies. Your analysis fails to take into consideration that Apple hasn't seen as much userbase growth as say Windows Phone (The numbers will surprise you) or Android.
> 
> If anything, this move could eventually end up being similar to when Sony and Samsung were running proprietary standards for their devices.






Exactly, it is the same story when Apple and Microsoft first went into war. The Microsoft programs were made by everyone and Apple had a hand full.


----------



## thievesarmy

silent xaxal said:


> For this to work, they'd need to start licensing out Lightning to other companies. Your analysis fails to take into consideration that Apple hasn't seen as much userbase growth as say Windows Phone (The numbers will surprise you) or Android.
> 
> If anything, this move could eventually end up being similar to when Sony and Samsung were running proprietary standards for their devices.


 
  
 their userbase / market share growth isn't huge, BUT I believe they make FAR more profit on what share they do have than the other companies do. Android is free for device makers... Not sure about Windows mobile.
  
 That said, Apple DOES need to increase their market share, and this Beats deal could be a huge move towards that. If they start creating synergy in the products, or having features & functionality exclusive to iOS / Beats, all of a sudden all the people that have or had Beats headphones are going to want to take full advantage of them, and could be tempted to get an iPhone. Much in the same way that the original iPod was essentially a trojan horse for Windows users to fall in love with an Apple product at an affordable price-point, and from there transition into the full Apple ecosystem with a Mac computer, Apple TV, iPad or what have you. Beats headphones could serve the same purpose now.


----------



## thievesarmy

kurochin said:


> The new cylindrical/dustbin styled Mac Pro models still come with ethernet ports, though. They come with two, in fact.


 
 don't forget the iMac.


----------



## Silent Xaxal

thievesarmy said:


> their userbase / market share growth isn't huge, BUT I believe they make FAR more profit on what share they do have than the other companies do. Android is free for device makers... Not sure about Windows mobile.
> 
> That said, Apple DOES need to increase their market share, and this Beats deal could be a huge move towards that. If they start creating synergy in the products, or having features & functionality exclusive to iOS / Beats, all of a sudden all the people that have or had Beats headphones are going to want to take full advantage of them, and could be tempted to get an iPhone. Much in the same way that the original iPod was essentially a trojan horse for Windows users to fall in love with an Apple product at an affordable price-point, and from there transition into the full Apple ecosystem with a Mac computer, Apple TV, iPad or what have you. Beats headphones could serve the same purpose now.


 
  
 It was stated by a number of individuals that they don't make too much per sale of Iphones/Ipads/Macs. Pretty much, it's when people start getting enveloped in the ecosystem where profit starts getting made. Which leads to the problem with the Beats acquisition, because, admittedly, audio currently isn't a large concern for most individuals. The streaming service may actually be a stronger gateway drug for the kind of situation you're postulating, but even then, Apple isn't in the strong position it had in the mid-late 2000s. This now more of an uphill battle if anything and forcing people onto a singular standard could do them more harm than good, though what would do more harm would be if they introduced lightning as the be-all end-all peripheral standard, then suddenly go back on their word and bring back more universal formats (Steve Jobs would never do this, but I honestly think that Tim Cook would be way too prone to doing this.)


----------



## thievesarmy

They don't make a ton on Mac's, but they do on iPhone's. Here's an article on their latest quarterly earnings: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/181290-apples-iphone-continues-to-drive-record-quarterly-profits-despite-ipad-sales-stalling
  


> Apple made a profit of $10.2 billion on revenue of $45.6 billion in its second fiscal quarter of 2014, up from $9.5 billion and $43.6 billion respectively for the same period last year. *The increase in revenue was mostly bolstered by a big jump in iPhone sales (from 37.4 million to 43.7 million).*


 
  
 iPads are also still big business, even though in this most recent statement they were actually down (I think for the first time ever) - but still, they're VERY profitable. From the same article, regarding iPad:
  


> It’s worth pointing out that sales of 16.35 million is still very, very strong; no other tablet comes close.


 
  
 I wasn't even getting into the prospect of a Lightning standard, but since you brought it up - honestly do you really think they would eliminate a headphone port COMPLETELY? That would SERIOUSLY piss off (and alienate) a HUGE amount of their customers who wouldn't be able to use ANY of their current headphones. I cannot see them ever doing something so radical. What is more likely is that they'll build in exclusive functionality or advantages when using Lightning, especially in conjunction with Beats headphones. Incentivize that while still retaining the most common standard that EVERY headphone uses is the best of both worlds, and everyone wins.


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## thievesarmy

I could certainly see them make an premium, ultra-thin device (iPhone Air ?) that sheds the 3.5mm headphone jack for a thinner Lightning port, but they would still offer a model that included a headphone port.


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## Makiah S

silent xaxal said:


> For this to work, they'd need to start licensing out Lightning to other companies. Your analysis fails to take into consideration that Apple hasn't seen as much userbase growth as say Windows Phone (The numbers will surprise you) or Android.
> 
> If anything, this move could eventually end up being similar to when Sony and Samsung were running proprietary standards for their devices.


 
 Dude, I used to own a Zune HD, I liked it very much. The OS was much better than Android or apple, and for that reasons I'd like  windows phone my self, I'm not a huge app person. I just want Gmail, Google Maps and... uhh well that's it 
  
 that said it's good to hear windows is growing


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## Xeculus

Good news! 
  
 The *iPhone 6 will have the 3.5mm headphone jack!* 
  
 http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2014/06/12/new-iphone-6-photos-leaked-by-taiwanese-pop-star/?partner=yahootix


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## Redcarmoose

xeculus said:


> Good news!
> 
> The *iPhone 6 will have the 3.5mm headphone jack!*
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2014/06/12/new-iphone-6-photos-leaked-by-taiwanese-pop-star/?partner=yahootix


 
 Looks almost like iPod Touch 5?


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## Hapster

Psh. For the first time I'm going to switch from iPod to iPhone and they make the iPhone look just like the ipod I already have! XD
  
 And yes, not almost like, exactly like. The only difference I could see what a tiny little dot next to the power button on the top.


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## Xeculus

hapster said:


> Psh. For the first time I'm going to switch from iPod to iPhone and they make the iPhone look just like the ipod I already have! XD
> 
> And yes, not almost like, exactly like. The only difference I could see what a tiny little dot next to the power button on the top.


 
  
 Same dilemma here! 
  
 It's ok, the LTE makes up for it


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## Redcarmoose

http://www.zadtech.com/iphone-6-reportedly-launching-sooner-than-expected.html?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=referral


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## AUDIOBREEDER

thievesarmy said:


> They don't make a ton on Mac's,


 
 I dont know if that is true 'cause I'm returning to college after 15 years (Man, have things changed), and the college I'm going has almost 30 Mac for their computer design classes. So I'm guessing other Colleges / Universities in the US have the same number or even more for their departments.


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## thievesarmy

audiobreeder said:


> I dont know if that is true 'cause I'm returning to college after 15 years (Man, have things changed), and the college I'm going has almost 30 Mac for their computer design classes. So I'm guessing other Colleges / Universities in the US have the same number or even more for their departments.




First of all that's completely anecdotal. Just because you notice a lot of new macs in your school, it doesn't mean anything for the company overall. Regardless, don't get me wrong, they still make a lot of money on computers. Tons of money relative to the rest of the industry. But overall, the vast majority of their profits come from iPhone and iPad related sales. This isn't secret stuff, you can look up the breakdowns of where their sales / profits come from. They're a public company and as such they must disclose this info. To your credit, apple has long had a strong foothold in education, and I think offers a significant educational / student discount on their products, but a lot of those schools are actually moving towards iPads in many situations.


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## csglinux

For any iPhone owners that also happen to own a good pair of headphones and don't want to be forced to throw them away and buy a new pair of lightning-equipped Beats headphones:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/stop-apple-from-getting-rid-of-headphone-jacks-in


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## StanD

csglinux said:


> For any iPhone owners that also happen to own a good pair of headphones and don't want to be forced to throw them away and buy a new pair of lightning-equipped Beats headphones:
> 
> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/stop-apple-from-getting-rid-of-headphone-jacks-in


 
 The fools in Cupertino will find out when we vote with our wallets.


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## Koolpep

Ok. But even if they do it you can still:

- use Bluetooth headphones
- use your old headphones with a dac/amp with the Lightning to USB adapter (like C5D, idsd, Chord mojo and many others).
- use shells like then entrance hifi skÿn

So it's not the end of the world, even if it would happen. Though I doubt it. 

Cheers,
K


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## StanD

koolpep said:


> Ok. But even if they do it you can still:
> 
> - use Bluetooth headphones
> - use your old headphones with a dac/amp with the Lightning to USB adapter (like C5D, idsd, Chord mojo and many others).
> ...


 
 Many people have carefully selected sensitive headphones/IEMs so that they can drive them directly without carrying extra gadgets. They will not be pleased if such a dumb decision is made.


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## Koolpep

stand said:


> Many people have carefully selected sensitive headphones/IEMs so that they can drive them directly without carrying extra gadgets. They will not be pleased if such a dumb decision is made.




Well let's see if apple would do that, so far nothing but rumors. I still doubt it....but that's why you have choice. 

Anyhow. There is always the possibility to just continue to use the carefully matched phone and IEMs then and not to upgrade.


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## StanD

koolpep said:


> Well let's see if apple would do that, so far nothing but rumors. I still doubt it....but that's why you have choice.
> 
> Anyhow. There is always the possibility to just continue to use the carefully matched phone and IEMs then and not to upgrade.


 
 Yes,I don't think they would make such a bad decision, otherwise they will lose business and Steve Jobs will haunt them.
 I think their rank and file customers are accustomed to cheap earbuds and may not be willing to spend another load of money on an Apple only gadget.


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## vantt1

csglinux said:


> For any iPhone owners that also happen to own a good pair of headphones and don't want to be forced to throw them away and buy a new pair of lightning-equipped Beats headphones:
> 
> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/stop-apple-from-getting-rid-of-headphone-jacks-in


 
 At this point, Apple ditching the mini jack in the next iPhone is nothing more than just a rumor. I doubt they'll remove the mini jack; since there are so many existing headphones/earphones that use it (including their own ubiquitous EarPods). But who knows, only time will tell.
  
 No-one's really forced to do anything, though. It's not like Apple's gonna forcefully take your existing iPhone from you and remove the headphone jack from it. No-one's forced to throw away their existing headphones, and nor are they forced to buy Lightning-equipped Beats headphones. Philips already made a Lightning headphone, and I'm sure many other manufacturers will start to make them too.
  
 Besides, why would anyone force themselves to buy the new iPhone if they really value the mini jack that much?


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## StanD

vantt1 said:


> At this point, Apple ditching the mini jack in the next iPhone is nothing more than just a rumor. I doubt they'll remove the mini jack; since there are so many existing headphones/earphones that use it (including their own ubiquitous EarPods). But who knows, only time will tell.
> 
> No-one's really forced to do anything, though. It's not like Apple's gonna forcefully take your existing iPhone from you and remove the headphone jack from it. No-one's forced to throw away their existing headphones, and nor are they forced to buy Lightning-equipped Beats headphones. Philips already made a Lightning headphone, and I'm sure many other manufacturers will start to make them too.
> 
> Besides, why would anyone force themselves to buy the new iPhone if they really value the mini jack that much?


 
 And yet every year the line of the faithful extends from Apple Stores, clear over the horizon. Should this rumor pan out, it might cause some confusion withing the ranks. Not everyone has purchased an iWatch to accompany their iPhone, however, one does not need the watch but _must have_ the phone.


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