# iPod Dock Pinout



## xluben

Using this pinout of the iPod dock connector:

http://pinouts.ru/data/ipod_pinout.shtml

 Could I just pop open the dock connection part of an Apple included cable, solder to the correct pins and get, line out, video out, charging via firewire, etc. I think I'm gonna re-do my DIY iPod dock (better enclosure) and I was hoping I could get more than just line out and firewire, and also make it smaller than the Pocketdock w/firewire plug sticking out of it. The actual dock connection part won't have to look good because it'd be hiddin inside the dock, but does anyone know what it will look like when I bust open a dock connector? Or should I pop open the Pocketdock (does it have all the pins in there?). Opening the Pocketdock seems like it might even work better.


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## xluben

Well, I opened up the included dock connector to USB cable (destroying the plastic around the dock connector) and then removed some copper tape and cut off one side of the dock connector and this is what I saw:







 There are a few wires covered in a blob of hot glue and the are holes (which I assume lead to the pins) are tiny! Even if I could get that hotglue wire mess out of there I don't know if I could find or work with wire that small. Maybe a single strand of stranded wire, but I don't know how I could keep it in the holes (I wouldn't know where to solder).


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## clarke68

Buy one of these instead.


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## xluben

Thanks for the link. I think I heard about this a while ago, but figured they were all probably gone. Now I see where TURBO must get his parts. I ordered 5 of them, but I'll probably just use one for my new DIY dock (hopefully fully featured) and then make one as a line out only pocket dock. I don't know what I'll do with the rest (I'll probably screw up a few while trying to make the dock). Too bad I already destroyed my iPod to USB cable when I went at it with a dremel.


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## steinba

Wouldn't it be possible to add an extra minijack somewhere on the ipod's enclosure, and make a line out without any extra connector?


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## RnB180

you cant mod that stock connector for several reasons,

 two of the most important are
 1. hot glue = permanent
 2. no pins to solder to.


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## RnB180

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xluben* 
_Thanks for the link. I think I heard about this a while ago, but figured they were all probably gone. Now I see where TURBO must get his parts. I ordered 5 of them, but I'll probably just use one for my new DIY dock (hopefully fully featured) and then make one as a line out only pocket dock. I don't know what I'll do with the rest (I'll probably screw up a few while trying to make the dock). Too bad I already destroyed my iPod to USB cable when I went at it with a dremel._

 


 the forum member name is Ridax on the iPod linux forum.
 He sells them for like $2 bucks a pop. I think he has a continuous supply of them. It would be fun if someone organized a group buy. I think they can be purchased in bulks of 500 directly from Asia.


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## gtp

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RnB180* 
_the forum member name is Ridax on the iPod linux forum.
 He sells them for like $2 bucks a pop. I think he has a continuous supply of them. It would be fun if someone organized a group buy. I think they can be purchased in bulks of 500 directly from Asia._

 

And I believe you can buy them from Mouser now...but they are around $5-6.


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## Chris Allen

I think on the final page, someone said mouser's didn't work.


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## xluben

I sent money to Ridax for 5 of them. Hopefully PayPal will transfer my money quickly so he can ship them. And yes, I think someone bought the Mouser docks, and they don't fit into the bottom of the iPod.


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## AtomBoy

I've also just ordered some connectors from Ridax. I want to send power to the iPod and take the line out signal from it. Running power and signal in parallel is normally a bad idea. The commercial adapters I've seen are using two separate cables for power and line out. I suspect the answer is 'no', but is there a sanitary way to use one cable? I've been slicing open USB, mouse, and keyboard cables looking for something with two separately shielded pairs.


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## NeilR

I think it would be very cool to build a Pimeta or whatever in a Hammond case and mount a universal dock connector on top, like the Apple dock. With a cup to cradle the iPod.... I know Ridax sells the electrical part, designed for PC mount but I'm not sure how I would fix that to the top of the case. I wonder if someone makes a plate or something similar to mount on a flat panel?

 If I could do that, I would hard wire input lines from the dock to the amp, elilminating the minijack. Could power it too... ooohhhhhh


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## xluben

I think the PC mount part Ridax sells is the female portion of the dock (the part in the iPod), so that wouldn't really work. My plan is to mount the dock connecter inside the universal dock adapter that comes with new iPods and then mount that into the top of an enclosure. I'm sure I could easily integrate and amp, but I'd be using the dock mostly for going to my receiver, so I don't think it's really necessary.

 As for one cable for power and line out, what would be the purpose of this? It would have to split eventually? Why not just use two different cables? I plan on wiring up lineout, power(firewire), usb(syncing) and rca(video out) jacks into my dock.


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## AtomBoy

I'm planning on connecting the iPod to my amp by about 3 feet of cable so the amp sits next to the couch and I can still work the iPod. So, I'm not looking at a dock situation- more like an umbilicus.


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## xluben

I don't really understand what you are looking for. By power do you mean to power the iPod?

 power -> iPod -> amp -> heaphones -> you

 Is that correct? If so, then I see no need for a power/lineout cable in one. If I'm not understanding correctly (probably) please clarify.

 Or is the amp a reciever to power speakers? Even so, that still doesn't seem to pose much of a problem. I actually see no situation where it would be favorable to line out and power in one cable.


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## NeilR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *xluben* 
_As for one cable for power and line out, what would be the purpose of this? It would have to split eventually? Why not just use two different cables? I plan on wiring up lineout, power(firewire), usb(syncing) and rca(video out) jacks into my dock._

 

xluben,

 What I am envisioning is an amp with dock on top, with no additional wiring. The audio out pins of the connector would be internally wired into the amp. The amp itself would probably be AC powered, with a Tread inside the case. The iPod connector could be powered by the Tread (with appropriate voltage reduction of course- maybe a 3.3V or 5V regulator- whatever the iPod needs). Now you can put the amp on a table next to you and pop the iPod in, just like it works on some commercial powered speaker amps. The amp, of course, could also be battery powered (or dual ac-battery) rather than wall powered, eliminating that last wire.

 My life is full of tangled messes of ac cords, line ins, line outs, etc., etc. This would be a sort of minimalist setup that is easy to use and completely self contained. Something I can pick up with one hand and take out to the patio without an armful of wires, warts, amps, iPods.....

 I ordered a few each of the connectors Ridax is selling. I see where you are going by just using the universal dock plate adapter. I guess the connector will have to be glued firmly into place in the plate adapter. When I get the parts I think it will be clearer.

 Regards,
 Neil


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## AtomBoy

Sorry for not being clear. I'll try to paint a better picture here and I hope I'm not highjacking your thread.

 I'm working on a Dynalo and I'm using a super regulator power supply in the Dynalo. I'd like to stick a +12V regulator in front of the +15V part of the power supply and run that to the iPod to give it a very clean +12V. I'd also like to take the line out from the iPod and feed it to the Dynalo. I don't want to dock the iPod right into the amp because that would make it awkward to change tracks- I want to be able to hold it in my hand.


  Code:


```
[left] ----- Wall Power --->| amp |------------------>iPod | | | |----------------->Phones -----[/left]
```

Running power in parallel with signal is usually a bad idea because any noise on the power line will make it into the signal via inductance (crosstalk). The pairs in cat-5 network cable have different rates of twist to prevent crosstalk, but they aren't designed with audio frequencies in mind and a cat-5 cable is a little thicker than what I'd want. I have loads of dead computer gear and I was hoping to find a cable that would isolate the power from the signal.


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## xluben

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *NeilR* 
_xluben,

 What I am envisioning is an amp with dock on top, with no additional wiring. The audio out pins of the connector would be internally wired into the amp. The amp itself would probably be AC powered, with a Tread inside the case. The iPod connector could be powered by the Tread (with appropriate voltage reduction of course- maybe a 3.3V or 5V regulator- whatever the iPod needs). Now you can put the amp on a table next to you and pop the iPod in, just like it works on some commercial powered speaker amps. The amp, of course, could also be battery powered (or dual ac-battery) rather than wall powered, eliminating that last wire.

 My life is full of tangled messes of ac cords, line ins, line outs, etc., etc. This would be a sort of minimalist setup that is easy to use and completely self contained. Something I can pick up with one hand and take out to the patio without an armful of wires, warts, amps, iPods.....

 I ordered a few each of the connectors Ridax is selling. I see where you are going by just using the universal dock plate adapter. I guess the connector will have to be glued firmly into place in the plate adapter. When I get the parts I think it will be clearer.

 Regards,
 Neil_

 

My comments were towards AtomBoy's setup. I think what you are evnisioning would be rather easy to do and would be a great setup for at home amped headphone listening. I don't think I'd want to amp my dock, because I'll be using the dock more for hooking up to my reciever to power my speakers.


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AtomBoy* 
_Sorry for not being clear. I'll try to paint a better picture here and I hope I'm not highjacking your thread.

 I'm working on a Dynalo and I'm using a super regulator power supply in the Dynalo. I'd like to stick a +12V regulator in front of the +15V part of the power supply and run that to the iPod to give it a very clean +12V. I'd also like to take the line out from the iPod and feed it to the Dynalo. I don't want to dock the iPod right into the amp because that would make it awkward to change tracks- I want to be able to hold it in my hand.


  Code:



		Code:
	

[left] ----- Wall Power --->| amp |------------------>iPod | | | |----------------->Phones -----[/left]


Running power in parallel with signal is usually a bad idea because any noise on the power line will make it into the signal via inductance (crosstalk). The pairs in cat-5 network cable have different rates of twist to prevent crosstalk, but they aren't designed with audio frequencies in mind and a cat-5 cable is a little thicker than what I'd want. I have loads of dead computer gear and I was hoping to find a cable that would isolate the power from the signal._

 

OK, I understand better now. The drawing helped a lot. I would have suggested Cat-5, but it seems like that won't work well enough. You'll just have to look for something with better shielding, or make something yourself.


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## hoosterw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *clarke68* 
_Buy one of these instead._

 

Well, there is a better one.
 A) it is slimmer
 B) it has gold plated contacts
 C) it is shielded

 For those reasons I use it on the cables I build.











 It can be bought via a guy here in Sweden but I know there was a guy selling the same in the US.

 Just an idea.

 Rgds Hans


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## AtomBoy

What a tease!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That is a fabulous looking cable, Hans! The connector does look much cleaner than the one I've ordered. I'd love to know more about your source.


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## xluben

I believe that is the same connector that Ridax offers for $2.50 He has the chunkier looking ones in white or black for $2. I got 4 of the larger black ones and one of the slim white ones you posted.


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## hoosterw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AtomBoy* 
_What a tease!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That is a fabulous looking cable, Hans! The connector does look much cleaner than the one I've ordered. I'd love to know more about your source._

 

Hi

 The guy in sweden is reachable via:
laopo_paypal@hotmail.com

 I also build cables to order 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .

 Rgds


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## BleckLord

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AtomBoy* 
_Sorry for not being clear. I'll try to paint a better picture here and I hope I'm not highjacking your thread.

 I'm working on a Dynalo and I'm using a super regulator power supply in the Dynalo. I'd like to stick a +12V regulator in front of the +15V part of the power supply and run that to the iPod to give it a very clean +12V. I'd also like to take the line out from the iPod and feed it to the Dynalo. I don't want to dock the iPod right into the amp because that would make it awkward to change tracks- I want to be able to hold it in my hand.


  Code:



		Code:
	

[left] ----- Wall Power --->| amp |------------------>iPod | | | |----------------->Phones -----[/left]


Running power in parallel with signal is usually a bad idea because any noise on the power line will make it into the signal via inductance (crosstalk). The pairs in cat-5 network cable have different rates of twist to prevent crosstalk, but they aren't designed with audio frequencies in mind and a cat-5 cable is a little thicker than what I'd want. I have loads of dead computer gear and I was hoping to find a cable that would isolate the power from the signal._

 

I have two comments:

 1. Remember that the iPod will internally regulate the +12V provided by the dock connector, so you don't need to over engineer the external +12V supply. Also, note that the iPod Nano (should you want to use one) won't work with the +12V Firewire supply, Apple removed Firewire support. My nano won't charge off Firewire, only USB. So you might want to aim for supplying 5V like the Apple iPod AC-DC converter.

 2. I'd suggest using the Cat5 for audio and a separate shielded cable for power. I like Cat5 for audio. Whatever you choose, make sure the power cable is rated for at least 500mA. The internal regulators are designed to current limit the draw on the 5V USB to 100mA or 500mA while connected to a USB host, but they have the ability to ignore the current limits all together when no USB host is present (AC-DC wall charging/charging in powered dock).

 Example, from the Video iPod:
 (5 Volt input)
 LTC4066 Linear USB Power Manager / Li-Ion Battery Charger
 -Custom version of the LTC4055, added the disable current limit feature
 -Current limits: 100mA, 500mA, None (draws as much as needed to charge the battery and run the iPod)
 -Charges the battery and regulates battery/5V input for PMU

 (12 Volt input)
 LM34910 High Voltage step-down converter, I'm pretty sure this is for the FW power input
 -Internal current limit: 1.25A, adjustable (down)
 -Steps down to 5V internal bus

 PMU (Power Management Unit)
 Recently (Nano/Video) provided by Phillips
 -5V internal bus input, multiple regulators for all other internal power domains


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## AtomBoy

BleckLord,

 Thanks much for the tips. I wasn't aware that the Nano wouldn't use 12V. As for over engineering- I was just going to stick an LM317 in front of the already over engineered PS in my amp to drop the +15 to +12. From what you said, it looks like its worthwhile to make it +5V from a separate supply. It sounds like the iPod could just decide to pull enough juice to throw my +/- amp supply out of whack (which on a Dynalo means DC to the phones!)

 As for the cable- It looks like one could buy S-Video cable where the lines are shielded from each other, but I knew if I tore up enough scrap computer gear I would find something.

 Old Sun monitor cables have three shielded single cables and 5 twisted pairs (26awg?). I'm going to try using two lengths of the shielded for left and right line out and one or two lengths of the twisted pair for +V and power gnd. I've got enough of it to try a few different combos. I like it because its much more flexible than any of the cat-5 I have kicking around and I'm not convinced that twisted pair is better than braided shield for blocking solar flares, hard drives, and hair dryers.

 (Oh, and BleckLord- welcome to Head-Fi- sorry for your wallet!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


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## skyskraper

you guys who have used the various dock connectors, do they lock on? if so is it easily disabled? id like to build my own desktop dock and wouldnt like to put the ipod in it and have it locked. im assuming ill be able to pull it apart to use only the connector portion and at the same time disable the locking mechanism.


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## RnB180

the oem docks do lock.


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## xluben

But you can take out the locking pins on the sides.


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## AtomBoy

Well, Ridax* is the real thing- I got my connectors.

 I knew the contacts would be small, but they are small. I mean realy realy small. They do pull out and push back into the body of the connector, so that's how I soldered most of them, but man those pins are small!






 I used two shielded cables for left and right line out (the red and the blue) and the twisted pair going to a little +5v regulated suply on a bread board. Its about 5 feet long and I guess I need some Techflex.

 Plugging it in the first time was a little nerve wracking. I was picturing my new toy going BANG, but it works fine. There's no hum and the little lightning bolt flashes to say its charging.

 * See here http://ipodlinux.org/Dock_Connector for info on ordering.


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## xluben

I haven't gotten mine yet.


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## AtomBoy

The stamps on the envelope from Ridax were in Kronor, so I can see how the shipping might take a while. I was surprised to get mine as soon as I did.

 I might not be as clever as I thought. The sound comes through my cable fine, but it stops charging at random moments. I don't think its a loose connection, because it always tests fine and I don't think its a current thing because nothing gets hot. It will charge for a long time if I leave it alone. Its only when I've been using it that it stops charging- it seems like a software thing? I can wiggle the cable and its fine.

 If I unplug and plug back in, it will start charging again after a minute or so.

 Footnote (4) here http://ipodlinux.org/Dock_Connector mentions putting different resistors between pin 21 and GND to tell the iPod what its plugged into. I didn't do anything with this pin- I wonder if I shoulda?

 I've got an iPod Video with the latest firmware.


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## hoosterw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AtomBoy* 
_The stamps on the envelope from Ridax were in Kronor, so I can see how the shipping might take a while. I was surprised to get mine as soon as I did._

 

My envelope was also in swedish kronor, and the senders name was "Ridax programutv". So laopo_paypal@hotmail.com
 and Ridax are one and the same!

 Hans.


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## RnB180

ordered about 20 pieces from the guy in two seperate orders.
 He is definately legit.


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## AtomBoy

Well, I wired in a couple of sockets to pins 11 and 21 to try various resistors for the Accessory Indicator. I know the picture looks like it all must be shorted out, but trust me, its not. None of my previous work survived the hot glue, so its all new pins.







 No luck at all. Plug it in, the iPod starts charging untill I start a movie. It might continue to charge if I start a song, but will stop charging within a few minutes while playing tunes.

 The ameter shows about 100ma draw while its charging which drops down to 0 when it stops, so the little blinking batery is telling the truth.

 I've tried 10K 500K and 1M.

 I am using a 5V 2A wall wart. I tried using a 6V 4A through a 5V regulator thinking I didn't have enough juice- no difference.

 It will still charge the iPod up to full if I don't try to play anything.

 My iPod will play a movie and take a charge at the same time using Apple's cable pluged into a powered USB hub with no computer. Apple's cable only has the 4 USB pins on it.

 I am getting better at soldering those little tiny pins. The trick is to tin the wire, tin the pin (clamped in a hemostat), put a tiny bit of flux on the wire, place the wire on the pin, then just touch it for a moment with the iron.


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## ridax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AtomBoy* 
_What a tease!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That is a fabulous looking cable, Hans! The connector does look much cleaner than the one I've ordered. I'd love to know more about your source._

 

Just want to tell that those connectors are among the ones I am selling (I am the one you have linked to earlier in the discussion). The connector showed in the last picture is the one called "slim/thin" in the iPodLinux discussion and can be ordered just like the others. You can also purchase them directly on-line now here


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## ridax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AtomBoy* 
_No luck at all. Plug it in, the iPod starts charging untill I start a movie. It might continue to charge if I start a song, but will stop charging within a few minutes while playing tunes._

 

I have heard from others, that the iPod needs something like 2.5V on pin 25 (USB data) to go into charging reliably. A better option would be to use the Firewire power pins as it is regulated input (can accept much higher voltage), don't know which is the minimum voltage on the Firewire power pins though.

 The 2.5V on pin 25 is just something someone else told me, I don't know anything about it really.


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## RnB180

wow, welcome to the forum Ridax. Did a had fi member lead you here?


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## AtomBoy

I've posted a plea for help on the ipodlinux.org forums: http://ipodlinux.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7015

 Ridax, thanks for the tip (and for the prompt shipping of the very reasonably priced connectors!), but the pinout guide shows pin 25 as being USB Data (-). I've tried poking the giant, clumsy tips of my multimeter into my Apple USB connector and I did see a small negative voltage for just a moment before my hand sliped. I'll try to rig up a better test, but I hesitate to bust open a $20 cable or send positive voltage where negative belongs. Pin 27 is USB Data (+).

 Anybody know more about how USB works? Is there really a negative signal?

 I guess I could just make a duplicate of the apple cable with a spare USB cable and another of Ridax's connectors. Stay tuned...


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## Pars

You guys might want to check out these two older threads...

Number 1
Number 2

 WHat seems to be the verdict in terms of the connectors? The thicker one or the thinner one? Is there reoom in the thinner one to stuff a mini jack for lineout (would seem to be as I think this is what Turbo uses).

 Thanks,

 Chris


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## AtomBoy

Thanks, Pars, but the other threads don't address charging via the USB pins, though the jack in the connector looks like a neat idea. There are some very small smt jacks out there that I bet would work in the little iPod connector. (The one in Turbo's pictures is the larger, $2.00 one.)

 I made a copy of Apple's connector using an old USB cable and another dock connector. It works fine- I can start a movie and it keeps charging. Putting the volt meter on pins 25 and 27 (USB data + and -) shows nothing either between 25 and 27 or from either to USB ground.

 I don't have a logic probe though and I'm guessing that if I did I might see a conversation like, "Hey, I'm an iPod and I want some electricity!", "Hey, iPod! I'm a Belkin powered USB hub. You can have 500ma if you want it!", then silence. My computer isn't connected to the hub and it still works fine.

 I'm a little hesitant to just throw a constant voltage on the USB data ports. Maybe I should just find the cheapest powered hub out there and Frankenstien that into my amp?

 I'm betting that just throwing 12V at the Firewire pin would work without all this fuss, but I dont want to do something that won't work with the next iPod. (See earlier post from BleckLord about the Nano not supporting Firewire.)


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## Pars

In the first link Turbo had a diagram showing a 500K resistor from pins 30 and 21, and a jumper from pin 30 to 11. These are labeled enable dock serial connector in his diagram. I'd ohm out your working cable pin to pin and see what it's got, but guessing, I would say the the resistor and jumper plus what you already have might do it.

 There are alot of other links in those threads... not sure if you read them all or not (I haven't yet). I may poke around with one of my son's cables here... damn those pins are small


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## AtomBoy

I've tried the 500K resistor- no love. Mine's between pin 21 and 11, but it should be functionally equivalent to Turbo's diagram. 11 and 30 are both ground.

 The Apple cable that works only has four pins going to the USB connections- pins 16, 23, 25, and 27.

 I'm using this page http://ipodlinux.org/index.php/Dock_Connector as a reference for what pin does what.

 If someone has the Apple USB power adapter and is willing to pop it open, I'd be curious to see what's in there.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...More=M9837LL/A


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## ridax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AtomBoy* 
_I'm betting that just throwing 12V at the Firewire pin would work without all this fuss, but I dont want to do something that won't work with the next iPod. (See earlier post from BleckLord about the Nano not supporting Firewire.)_

 

The newer iPods (nano and video) can be charged through the Firewire cable/pins, just like the previous iPods. They just can't be synced through Firewire but still support charging. So using the Firewire-port for charging would be my choice.

 As for the USB Data - and +, I don't think you should interprete these as absolute plus and minus voltages, but instead as a balanced signalling there putting a positive voltage on Data+ and negative on Data- indicates a 1 and putting a positive voltage on Data- and negative on Data+ would indicate a 0. Thus a positive voltage on Data- would be a quite "normal" state and nothing to worry about.


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## hoosterw

Apparently the price for the connectors has gone up
 2.63USD and 25% VAT extra makes 3.29US$ whereas a while ago we paid 2.50$ no VAT?

 That requires some action I think.

 Power-buy ourselves maybe?

 pm me if there is an interest.

 Rgds Hans.


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## ridax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hoosterw* 
_Apparently the price for the connectors has gone up
 2.63USD and 25% VAT extra makes 3.29US$ whereas a while ago we paid 2.50$ no VAT?
 That requires some action I think.
 Power-buy ourselves maybe?
 pm me if there is an interest.
 Rgds Hans._

 

No, the price generally has not gone up. It is still US$ 2 for the thick and US$ 2.50 for the slim if you order the old way (except now VAT is charged within EU). The prices you are quoted are from the WEB shop, that is 5% higher due to processing costs there.


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## hoosterw

Ahh ok I see.
 But the VAT has come extra then.

 Then I still wonder what the purchasing price of such a connector is?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Rgds Hans.


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## AtomBoy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hoosterw* 
_Ahh ok I see.
 But the VAT has come extra then.

 Then I still wonder what the purchasing price of such a connector is?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Rgds Hans._

 

Mouser has a connector that looks like it should work, but doesn't:
http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?&han...d&N=0&crc=true
 I've read that this connector doesn't have the exactly correct keyways to work with the iPod. Just evil.

 Its $7.46 ea for one and $6.34 ea if you buy 100. So, Ridax's prices look very reasonable indeed.

 As for charging, I guess the next thing I'll try is 12V to the Firewire pins. Thanks for your help, Ridax!

 I'm still curious about the Apple USB Power Adapter. I wonder if its got the brains for a USB hub in there?


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## hoosterw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AtomBoy* 
_Mouser has a connector that looks like it should work, but doesn't:
http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?&han...d&N=0&crc=true
 I've read that this connector doesn't have the exactly correct keyways to work with the iPod. Just evil.

 Its $7.46 ea for one and $6.34 ea if you buy 100. So, Ridax's prices look very reasonable indeed.

 As for charging, I guess the next thing I'll try is 12V to the Firewire pins. Thanks for your help, Ridax!

 I'm still curious about the Apple USB Power Adapter. I wonder if its got the brains for a USB hub in there?_

 


 Well I have heard about frying iPods so I would personally take care about +12V on the firewire 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and for the price .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 forget I ever said anything.


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## Pars

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AtomBoy* 
_I've tried the 500K resistor- no love. Mine's between pin 21 and 11, but it should be functionally equivalent to Turbo's diagram. 11 and 30 are both ground.

 The Apple cable that works only has four pins going to the USB connections- pins 16, 23, 25, and 27.

 <snip>_

 

Yeah, I ohmed out one of our cables and as you noted, those are the only 4 pins used. 27 and 25 are USB data, so doubtful that those are really even needed for charging. Should be 23 (USB Power +5V) and 16 (USB Gnd). Looking at the USB connector end (is that a USB Type A? not up on this USB crap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), the connections are:

 Dock/iPod connector pin USB pin
 27 -----> 3
 25 -----> 2
 23 -----> 1
 16 -----> 4

 I numbered the USB pins as on the iPod connector, USB logo up, plug facing away from me, numbering from L to R. Also verified that no pins are connected together. Not sure if this helps.


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## labrat

Deleted.


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## ridax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *labrat* 
_The "Apple USB Power Adapter" has 5 Volt out, period.
 There is no other connector on the adapter, so there is no "brain" in there, and no possibility to use it as a hub.
 Sorry._

 

I have measured a original Apple USB charger and it gives around +5V for USB power, +2.7V for Data- och 2.0V for Data+. All these voltages relative to ground. So the Data pins are connected and not free in space and I think the information I got before, that putting 2.5V on Data- might do the trick (but no guarantee on this). To put 2.5V on Data- you can use two similar resistors in series between GND and +5V (like 2 1kOhm resistors) and you will get 2.5V between the two resistors (if any of you are not familiar with electronics).

 About Firewire, there is no problem at all putting +12V on Firewire power and it will charge all iPods (except Shuffle of course). Here is my "charger" adapter for the iPod (it just connects to an ordinary +12V (or whatever) power adapter).


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## JamesBond

Hi Guys,

 I am quite happy that other people have similar problems charging the ipod via USB and the suggest explanation seems very reasonable:

 Just to summarize:

 Risax -> You have measued 5V on the Power pin (no surprise here), +2.7V on Data- and 2.0V on Data+. I guess you have used a standard voltmeter (one with a big lcd display, for instance). This would allow for the possibility that there are not a reallt 2V (or 2.7V) but rather a quickly alternating logic signal (between 0V and 5V). The Voltmeter is avering over this signal and shows some value inbetween 0V and 5V. 

 Now it would be very helpful, in order to check what is going by 
 EITHER to use an osilloscope and have a look at the data lines of the apple wall charger
 OR to open the wall charger and check what is connected to the data lines.

 It would be really cool if someone with a wall charger could check that out for us !!!


 Thanks
 James


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## ridax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *JamesBond* 
_Ridax -> You have measued 5V on the Power pin (no surprise here), +2.7V on Data- and 2.0V on Data+. I guess you have used a standard voltmeter (one with a big lcd display, for instance). This would allow for the possibility that there are not a reallt 2V (or 2.7V) but rather a quickly alternating logic signal (between 0V and 5V). The Voltmeter is avering over this signal and shows some value inbetween 0V and 5V. _

 

No, I scoped it with a DSO (storage scope) and the voltages I specified are as flat as Netherlands.... Nothing there, just those voltages.


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## AndrewFischer

Is there a real sound quality advantage to using the audio out from the dock connector over the jack on the top of the iPod?


 Just wondering if I should make / buy a dock connector for use with my PPA. I always run on the iPod battery.


 Forgive me if I missed this somewhere else.


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## saab

If you are really interested in finding out, I say pick one up. If you are not certain that you want one, I would not inverst the time that it takes to figure out how to put it together.

 My advice would be to get the dock from say Turbo here on the forums. If you really like it, either keep it, or sell it and make one of your own. By making one, you could have it configured axactly how you want it.

 By most all accounts, including my own, you should be impressed by the improvments using the line out can make.

 My two cents, and of course, ymmv. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -John


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## hoosterw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AndrewFischer* 
_Is there a real sound quality advantage to using the audio out from the dock connector over the jack on the top of the iPod?


 Just wondering if I should make / buy a dock connector for use with my PPA. I always run on the iPod battery.


 Forgive me if I missed this somewhere else._

 

Well, there is to my humble opinion a VERY BIG difference between the top-jack output and the bottom-dock.

 BUT experience yourself.

 There are also alternatives to the 'turbo solution' .

 I have the opinion that a mini-to-mini jack has the disadvantage of yet another connector to connector weakness.

 That is why I went for a hardwired iPod dock to mini, making the female to male jack connection superfluous!
 Here are some examples:

















 Rgds hans.


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## saab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hoosterw* 
_There are also alternatives to the 'turbo solution' .

 I have the opinion that a mini-to-mini jack has the disadvantage of yet another connector to connector weakness.

 That is why I went for a hardwired iPod dock to mini, making the female to male jack connection superfluous!_

 


 I am in complete agreement. I also prefer to not include another jack into the equation. 

 I made this suggestion because the Turbo dock is cheap enough to try the dock line out. At this point Andrew doesn't even know if there is a difference from the head out to the line out. This way he can see if the difference would be worth his time/money to have a more permanent solution.

 [edit] Yes, I do think that going from the dock line out is worth it. [/edit]


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## hoosterw

What is the price of a Turbo dock II? and subsequent a mini to mini cable?

 And then??? What is the price of a hardwired iPod dock to mini?


 Rgds Hans


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## saab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hoosterw* 
_What is the price of a Turbo dock II?_

 

I believe it is around $26, but I am not sure. I know it can be sold for very little loss if he decides to move on.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hoosterw* 
_and subsequent a mini to mini cable?_

 

I am assuming he already has one that he has been using from the headphone output.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hoosterw* 
_And then??? What is the price of a hardwired iPod dock to mini?_

 

I am not sure of a hardwired version, but I can't imagine one would be cheaper than $26.
 The other option he mentioned is to make one, and you must know as well as I do that this can vary greatly depending on materials used, tools needed to be purchased, and how valuable his time is.

 To me, this still sounds like the best option for figuring it out himself, but you are more than welcome to disagree. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 -John


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## AndrewFischer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *saab* 
_I believe it is around $26, but I am not sure. I know it can be sold for very little loss if he decides to move on.


 I am assuming he already has one that he has been using from the headphone output.
_

 

Actually mini to RCA as my PPA only has RCA inputs. There was a group buy for Vampire RCA jacks awhile back. I initially built the PPA to use with a DVD/CD player that had no headphone jack. I've since ditched the player for my iPod.


  Quote:


 The other option he mentioned is to make one 
 

I have the tools. 

 Only thing I don't have is the connectors. Cost is about $26 + my time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Dock connector looks like a pain to work with.


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## Pars

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AndrewFischer* 
_Actually mini to RCA as my PPA only has RCA inputs. There was a group buy for Vampire RCA jacks awhile back. I initially built the PPA to use with a DVD/CD player that had no headphone jack. I've since ditched the player for my iPod.

 I have the tools. 

 Only thing I don't have is the connectors. Cost is about $26 + my time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Dock connector looks like a pain to work with._

 

Cost of the connectors is $2.63 for the thin one, ~$2 for the snap-together one (plus shipping per order of ~$4). The thin one would be a problem to put a connector in the jack unless you pick the connector carefully (the normal Switchcraft minis will barely fit the larger dock connector... I had to cut the clear top off to get it back together). The pins are small, but pull all of them, then carefully note which ones go on which side (upper or lower). Use something like those helping hands things, and tin both the connector pin and the wire (small, like 28ga). Put the the wire in place and heat it up. It wasn't too bad at all. 1/16" heatshrink is too big (I used it, but don't think I would again as it made it hard to get the pins back in). Some kind of insulation would be good, but probably not required if you are careful. Then you just have the cost of the cable and the mini plug if you go that route.


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## hoosterw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *saab* 
_
 I am assuming he already has one that he has been using from the headphone output.

 -John_

 

Ah yes of course. If that is the case then you are right! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But if he would have to buy both it comes around to at least 60$ or so and a hardwired iPod dock to mini would only be 45$.

 Hans.


----------



## saab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *AndrewFischer* 
_I have the tools. 

 Only thing I don't have is the connectors. Cost is about $26 + my time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Dock connector looks like a pain to work with._

 

Absolutely, build one, or as many as you want. They are totally worth it in my opinion. If you have everything you need besides the connectors from ridax, making your own would definately be cheapest, and the most fun. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry for the confusion.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 John


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## tekstyle

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pars* 
_Yeah, I ohmed out one of our cables and as you noted, those are the only 4 pins used. 27 and 25 are USB data, so doubtful that those are really even needed for charging. Should be 23 (USB Power +5V) and 16 (USB Gnd). Looking at the USB connector end (is that a USB Type A? not up on this USB crap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), the connections are:

 Dock/iPod connector pin USB pin
 27 -----> 3
 25 -----> 2
 23 -----> 1
 16 -----> 4

 I numbered the USB pins as on the iPod connector, USB logo up, plug facing away from me, numbering from L to R. Also verified that no pins are connected together. Not sure if this helps._

 

did you see what's the ohm between these connections? i just want to know if there's anything between them. like a resistor.


----------



## Pars

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tekstyle* 
_did you see what's the ohm between these connections? i just want to know if there's anything between them. like a resistor._

 

I could not fine any interconnection between any pins on the iPod connector... its just a straight thru as indicated.

 I got a Pocketdock this week and I'm going to ohm that out and see what is connected to what... would be nice if you could get those flat-faced dock connectors like they use.... would make mounting jacks alot easier.


----------



## hoosterw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *saab* 
_Absolutely, build one, or as many as you want. They are totally worth it in my opinion. If you have everything you need besides the connectors from ridax, making your own would definately be cheapest, and the most fun. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sorry for the confusion.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 John_

 

Well maybe a small point, Ridax is not the only one selling them, I sell them as well although I only sell the smaller, shielded ones, and my prices are cheaper then Ridax's.

 Please find my Mall-Fi here: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168776

 Thanks for looking.


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## Qsilver2001

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pars* 
_WHat seems to be the verdict in terms of the connectors? The thicker one or the thinner one? Is there room in the thinner one to stuff a mini jack for lineout_

 

You mean this?


----------



## hoosterw

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Qsilver2001* 
_You mean this?



_

 

Wauw! nice. hadn't tried this one.
 Wonder how it looks on the inside?

 Rgds Hans.


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## Qsilver2001

using silver plated copper wire and pulled out the surrounding of pin 2/3/4.
 (pin1/5/6). Its been cased can't open it to take snap shot.


----------



## Pars

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Qsilver2001* 
_using silver plated copper wire and pulled out the surrounding of pin 2/3/4.
 (pin1/5/6). Its been cased can't open it to take snap shot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Do you mind sharing what jack you used for this? The Switchcraft (or Ratshack) jack definitely will not fit in this connector. BTW, is the black one as pictured identical to the slim white ones that Ridax sells?

 Thanks,

 Chris


----------



## saab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hoosterw* 
_Well maybe a small point, Ridax is not the only one selling them, I sell them as well although I only sell the smaller, shielded ones, and my prices are cheaper then Ridax's.

 Please find my Mall-Fi here: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168776

 Thanks for looking._

 

A small point, I made that post well before you announced that you are selling the connectors as well, at least as far as I am aware.


----------



## Qsilver2001

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pars* 
_Do you mind sharing what jack you used for this? The Switchcraft (or Ratshack) jack definitely will not fit in this connector. BTW, is the black one as pictured identical to the slim white ones that Ridax sells?

 Thanks,

 Chris_

 

Got those slim mounting jacks from ratshack(my country). Try hunt around for the max height 5mm inorder to fit into the slim connector. Hope that helps.


----------



## ridax

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hoosterw* 
_Well maybe a small point, Ridax is not the only one selling them, I sell them as well although I only sell the smaller, shielded ones, and my prices are cheaper then Ridax's._

 

Another small point is that hoosterw is shipping with economy mail, so it takes forever to get them. I know, I just made a test order from him. Even now, after 7 working days, I still haven't got them (and this is within Europe). Shipping to US economy will take between 8 and 12 WORKING days (i.e. up to 2.5 week).

 Another small point is that I was the one taking the risk to buy these unknown connectors (as a "group buy" for the iPodLinux forum) , that only were marketed to big businesses for ultrasound welding. He would never have dared to take the risk of buying 4000 connectors, if he had not sampled from me first.

 He is US$ 0.12 cheaper/connector. I will let him have this benefit of selling it slightly cheaper. If you want to have a wider choice of connectors, want to do the business with the one who will continously front up funds for these and future iPod connectors, you are welcome to check out my signature below for online ordering.

 On the other hand, if alot of you are desperate and feel these US$ 0.12 are all that matters, then you have your choice. If it comes to this and a lot of buyers decides on this, I will not continue providing these connectors, and hoosterw will no doubt increase the price in that case (as he has emailed me before and wanted to buy me out of business as he wanted to be "alone") and he will not have this wide choice of connectors as he is only interested in the thin "glue together" type of connectors.

 Sorry, if this sounds like a commercial, but I feel that there needs to be some balance to hoosterw, that just picks up an old thread to advertise his stuff.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Pars* 
_Do you mind sharing what jack you used for this? The Switchcraft (or Ratshack) jack definitely will not fit in this connector. BTW, is the black one as pictured identical to the slim white ones that Ridax sells?_

 

They are identical, except for the colour, and both white and black is available at both places...


----------



## rudemood11

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ridax* 
_I have measured a original Apple USB charger and it gives around +5V for USB power, +2.7V for Data- och 2.0V for Data+. All these voltages relative to ground. So the Data pins are connected and not free in space and I think the information I got before, *that putting 2.5V on Data- might do the trick* (but no guarantee on this). To put 2.5V on Data- you can use two similar resistors in series between GND and +5V (like 2 1kOhm resistors) and you will get 2.5V between the two resistors (if any of you are not familiar with electronics)._

 

I tried this trick on a US$2.5 generic USB wallwart. It Works! It won't get kick out of charge mode anymore on my 5g. Thanks ridax.


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