# WA22 let's roll some tubes (Done Mod, Burnning-in)



## Seamaster

For those of you own WA22 now. What tubes have you been rolling? Too busy to listen your Amp or too lazy to post?

 All listening is done with only HD650 with Stefan AudioArt and Cardas Balanced cable .

 Round 1
 Russian 6AS7G, Sylvania 6SN7WGTA brown base, Mullard 5AS4
 This is not very good start. I could tell the high is congested, mid is sweet and too creammy. there is big mid bass hump mix with lower mid. lower bass has good impact. there is some fuzz around the edge of the sound. Hump at left channel in and out sometimes. HD650 sound darker than It was.

 Round 2
 Russian 6AS7G 2nd Tested pair, Brimar 6SN7GT tall black glass ($250 a pair), Mullard 5AS4
 Change out Sylvania was good idea for 2nd though. Brimar clean and opened up sound little bit while have the tube sweetness. bass get tighter and deeper with more info in there.

 round 3
 changed out Mullard 5AS4 to Amperex GZ34 Holland
 This is 1st major change to sound, it took away all the slowness and extra fat of amp. no more hump. Not super black background but black enough even at 1:00 in the morning. Nice pair with HD650. I guess the problem I had was 5AS4, which was to creammy.

 Round 4
 2 Pair of GEC 6AS7G arrived, Brown base with round sidewall (both pair for $300)
 Compare with Russian tubes, well there is nothing to compare. GEC bettered in every way, but the change was not as big as GZ34 swap. I would say there is one star better out of 5 star rating system for GEC 6AS7G.

 Round 5
 I ordered a pair of 6F8G/VT-99 adapters from ebay, a guy name Glenn. pictures is in the thread " Got my paws on WA22". They are very well made for the price at $40/pair. and you can chose cable color too. For those of you remember SiglePower Audio was charging people over $100 for adapters?
 Now pair of Raytheon in place of 6SN7. Turn on the amp let it warmed up for 5 min. Put on Headphone...... Holy crap! I jump out the chair. My amp is burnning!


























 No just kidding. The amp sounds so expansive with ton of air on top, while still tube sweet. the mid is very clear and engaging, soundfile has enlarge with all 3 dimensions The bass is very clean and powerful, when low bass note kicks in you feel your heart is pumping faster. Compare to 6F8G's Brimar are very tubey maybe good to pair with HD800 or something bright. then I put Sylvania 6SN7WGTA back in just to make sure, Sylvania just don't have the "impact" to music like 6F8G do.

 Round 6
 Got 6CG7/6FQ7 adapter fro same guy. pair of Amperex 6CG7/6FQ7 made in US by Philips. They look like very tall 12AU7, Very quick to warm up.
 6CG7 sound even Little more open than 6F8G, very deep impactfull bass. At this time my Zu Varial cable sound little harsh on the top so I swap the cable to ELF Gold (gold plated copper) that made sound more life like again. Note: ELF is not slow and boring by any mean, they have no shielding. 6CG7 are most soild state sounding so far, as well as in speed, detail and impact. It is very strange about them, as they don't have the body like Brimar, but the bass weight much more, kicks harder and faster than Brimar. 6F8G have mixture of both type. To my tast I would not use 6CG7 with silver cable as they may sound bright. But very good match with HD650.

 For those of you still pay big bucks for 6SN7 type, it is the time to move on.

 I would like to try 12AU7 , 274B, and 5U4G soon.
  
  
  
Update as 1/13/2017, I don't believe this thread is still going after 8 years. I sold my WA22 and moved on to better amps and headphones. I did have fun with my WA22 that taught me many things in my audiophile life and I am still benefited from the knowledge I gained. My WA22 quickly got very expensive with all the tubes, but SQ wise, the investment to performance ratio was very very poor with WA22. Now, I am enjoying an ALO Audio continental dual mono amp with Mullard tubes much better than my maxed out WA22 at 1/3 of the total price. So, time to move on guys, there are many fishes in the sea......


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## TheAudioDude

The Raytheons sure seem like something I'd like to try once it comes time to start tube rolling. I definitely can't wait to hear your impressions on the 5U4G.


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## Seamaster

Now I debating between NOS Mullard or EML 5U4G

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/eml...s-wa22-456533/


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## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now I debating between NOS Mullard or EML 5U4G_

 

Have you tried the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier. 

 I have been rolling the EML 274B mesh and solid plate, In my 6SE maxxed.

 It is starting to seem to me that the Princess is the best choice. 

 ss


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## pedalhead

Thanks for the impressions, Seamaster. I can't add anything as my WA22 won't be with me for a week or so, but I'd sure be interested in your impressions of the EML 5U4G mesh as that's what I've ordered with mine .


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## Ricey20

Im using the Sophia Princess Mesh 274B Rectifier, Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z x2 (from Woo), and 2x GEC 6AS7 round brown base for power. I've never enjoyed a dynamic amp as much. Better than my balanced SP Supra and Jade by far, the only amp keeping me with dynamics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We'll see if that changes whenever i get my KGBH SE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do want to try a GZ34 metal plate and 7236 in power one of these days though. But so far I haven't had much motivation to move away from the current tube choice


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## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier. 

 I have been rolling the EML 274B mesh and solid plate, In my 6SE maxxed.

 It is starting to seem to me that the Princess is the best choice. 

 ss_

 

Yes , I do remember your recomendation. thanks. But WA22 is designed to use 5U4G as Woo 6 is using 274B in mind. As jack said he like 5U4G better WITH wa22. I try to get a NOS 5U4G 1st, try to avoid sepnt $219 for EML mesh.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ricey20* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im using the Sophia Princess Mesh 274B Rectifier, Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z x2 (from Woo), and 2x GEC 6AS7 round brown base for power. I've never enjoyed a dynamic amp as much. Better than my balanced SP Supra and Jade by far, the only amp keeping me with dynamics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We'll see if that changes whenever i get my KGBH SE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I do want to try a GZ34 metal plate and 7236 in power one of these days though. But so far I haven't had much motivation to move away from the current tube choice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

GZ34 metal plate is so expensive and not much better than UK or Holland made tubes. 

 Sorry Shuguang Treasure CV181 is not worthy their pirce, since a real pair Brimar or Mulldard only $100 more.


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## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the impressions, Seamaster. I can't add anything as my WA22 won't be with me for a week or so, but I'd sure be interested in your impressions of the EML 5U4G mesh as that's what I've ordered with mine ._

 

I am very happy with the 6F8G and 6CG7. They are very cheap. When you buy 6CG7, make sure get shield tpye unless they are Amperex or Philips both made in US , as unshield tubes are cheapper type of same kind.


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## Seamaster

I ordered EML 5U4G mesh plate. I will report back.


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## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered EML 5U4G mesh plate. I will report back._

 

Fantastic


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## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered EML 5U4G mesh plate. I will report back._

 

any update to this?


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## pedalhead

Yes good point! I have mine now as well, but I haven't even tried the stock tube yet, so unable to make a comparison at the moment. I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the EML 5U4G mesh, Seamaster.


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## Seamaster

I will as soon as I get home today. 
 So far I have tried GZ34, 5As4, EML 5U4G mesh, and 53KU


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## tosehee

How long does it take to get home?


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## Seamaster

I was reviewing 2 tubes but fall in sleep in the chair with headphone on and Maker's Mark on ice in my hand. Tried next day I did same thing! Shoot. I enjoy the music so much now, and it is very hard to do it right.


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## rurika

Well, I was rolling only 6sn7 tubes.

 Power : Sylvania 7236
 Rectifier : Sophia Princess 274B
 listen through cryoed OCC copper balanced cable + HD800

 Here is my 6sn7 top list.
 1.Tungsol 6sn7 RP
 2.ECC32 Mullard
 3.Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
 4.Sylvania 6sn7w black base short bottle
 5.5692 RCA redbase

 I also try sylvania 6sn7gt (chrome top), tungsol micky-mouse ears, sylvania 6sn7gt badboy, kenrad vt231 (clear glass), tungsol 6sn7gtb, rca 6sn7gt (grey glass), sophia 6sn7 (made by TJ Full music).

 Wanna try brimar 6sn7 , ECC33 mullard , shuguang treasure cv181-z but not now.

 picture :


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## glitch39

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Raytheons sure seem like something I'd like to try once it comes time to start tube rolling._

 

My experience with the Raytheons is that they are very, very quiet. On a balanced rig, I felt it lowered the noise floor even more, making the listening experience better. Can't stand the russian and CN tubes. No life at all. But YMMV


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## glitch39

To follow up on Rurika's post, my top 6SN7's are:

 Raytheon VT-231
 RCA 6SN7GT flat plates
 Sylvania 6SN7GTB angled T-plates
 Tungsol 6SN7GT T-plates
 CBS 5692

 You should try equivalents using adapters. These are electrically equivalent so should not affect the amp in any way:

 7N7
 6F8G
 6CG7


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## Seamaster

shuguang treasure cv181 maybe wast of money. brimar 6sn7 are very very good amount of 6SN7.

 Raytheon 6F8G and Amperex (US) 6CG7 are better than US made 6SN7's. Beside they are super cheap compare to 6SN7


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## Parafeed

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glitch39* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My experience with the Raytheons is that they are very, very quiet._

 

In general, the Raytheon 'T' plate VT-231's tend to be very quiet. The 'flat' plates vary a lot, sample to sample. IMHO, of course.


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## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rurika* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I was rolling only 6sn7 tubes.

 Power : Sylvania 7236
 Rectifier : Sophia Princess 274B
 listen through cryoed OCC copper balanced cable + HD800

 Here is my 6sn7 top list.
 1.Tungsol 6sn7 RP
 2.ECC32 Mullard
 3.Sylvania 6sn7w metal base
 4.Sylvania 6sn7w black base short bottle
 5.5692 RCA redbase

 I also try sylvania 6sn7gt (chrome top), tungsol micky-mouse ears, sylvania 6sn7gt badboy, kenrad vt231 (clear glass), tungsol 6sn7gtb, rca 6sn7gt (grey glass), sophia 6sn7 (made by TJ Full music).

 Wanna try brimar 6sn7 , ECC33 mullard , shuguang treasure cv181-z but not now.
_

 

How do you compare between those 6SN7 you have?


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## tosehee

Ordered WA22 today. I guess I will be re-read your review and start to get these tubes before it arrives. i got a long way, so I have a lot of lead time... Good or bad.


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## rurika

Quote:


 How do you compare between those 6SN7 you have? 
 

Well, actually I compared them with my use(listen) time.
 (but not for the sylvania metal base cause their life are short so I don't want to let them die quickly)

 I found that I like to use Tungsol RP more than other tubes.( I rolling tubes every 3-4 days or week / time) & I bought them a second pair for backup.
 I like the sound of mullard. It's very musical to me.

 Price of tubes is not my subject.
 In my tubes list the mullard are expensive than other tubes , the badboy are little expensive than the RCA redbase, the sophia are expensive than badboy & RCA redbase & 6sn7w (short bottle).

 So, my top list is my FAV tubes that I like to use.
 That's it, nothing more than that.

 For the tubes that not in my top list, they are good tubes but compare to my FAV tubes they aren't good enough IMO.

 I can't explain about sound well cause English is not my main language.(even in my nature language I can't explain well)

 well , I like to try 6F8G too.


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## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ordered WA22 today. I guess I will be re-read your review and start to get these tubes before it arrives. i got a long way, so I have a lot of lead time... Good or bad. _

 

Other people did homework for you, I guess it is good in your case. ha ha

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *rurika* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, actually I compared them with my use(listen) time.
 (but not for the sylvania metal base cause their life are short so I don't want to let them die quickly)

 I found that I like to use Tungsol RP more than other tubes.( I rolling tubes every 3-4 days or week / time) & I bought them a second pair for backup.
 I like the sound of mullard. It's very musical to me.

 Price of tubes is not my subject.
 In my tubes list the mullard are expensive than other tubes , the badboy are little expensive than the RCA redbase, the sophia are expensive than badboy & RCA redbase & 6sn7w (short bottle).

 So, my top list is my FAV tubes that I like to use.
 That's it, nothing more than that.

 For the tubes that not in my top list, they are good tubes but compare to my FAV tubes they aren't good enough IMO.

 I can't explain about sound well cause English is not my main language.(even in my nature language I can't explain well)

 well , I like to try 6F8G too._

 

what is FAV tubes?

 Make sure ask Glenn for red wire otherwise you get green in defalt


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## rurika

favorite tubes.(top list tubes)


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## tosehee

Does WA22 output all headphone jacks? Meaning, if I have several headphone with different connector types, would it drive them all with sufficient power?


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## mrarroyo

I would like to try the Sophia Electric 6SN7 in a Singlepower MPX3 Slam SE but it seems you all do not like them much. Currently I am using a pair of Raytheon 6SN7-GTB as the power tubes and they sound superb driven by a Tungsol 6BL7-GT.

 I have a second pair of Raytheon 6SN7-GTB from the 50's. In your opinion should I sell them to get a pair of the Sophia Electric 6SN7?


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## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does WA22 output all headphone jacks? Meaning, if I have several headphone with different connector types, would it drive them all with sufficient power?_

 

It'll certainly drive the single-ended output along with the 2x3-pin balanced. I can't test the 4-pin balanced output as I don't have any of those. It's got bags of power, to the point where I actually unplug my balanced hd800s when listening to my HF-2s as they could easily get driven too loud.


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## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does WA22 output all headphone jacks? Meaning, if I have several headphone with different connector types, would it drive them all with sufficient power?_

 

All headphone outputs on WA22 will drive 2~3 headphones at same time. BUT they are not driven to their best performance, which means the sound will degrade. 
 Test:
 WA22 on high with HD650, plug in RS-1, sound degraded.
 WA22 on Low with RS-1, plug in HD650, sound degraded.
 WA22 on high with HD650, plug the preamp thing, sound degraded
 WA22 on Low with RS-1, plug the preamp thing, sound degraded.
 In both case both headphones are still listenable. It took aways about 5%~8% of WA22's sound quality. 
 The preamp thing is a headphone similator that jack made to creat a feak headphone load. If you use WA22 as preamp, you must either leave a pair headphone on the amp or the "thing" at the SE 1/4" headpone output. Otherwise will over load the transformers.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to try the Sophia Electric 6SN7 in a Singlepower MPX3 Slam SE but it seems you all do not like them much. Currently I am using a pair of Raytheon 6SN7-GTB as the power tubes and they sound superb driven by a Tungsol 6BL7-GT.

 I have a second pair of Raytheon 6SN7-GTB from the 50's. In your opinion should I sell them to get a pair of the Sophia Electric 6SN7?_

 

"6SN7 Specification is identical to GE 6SN7 and RCA 5692" on Sophia website.
 Why not give it one shot for all, get CV1988, Brimar 6SN7GT, etc. The best 6SN7 type.


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## yilmaz196

Where can we buy these tubes? Is there a good website selling these tubes worlwide?


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## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yilmaz196* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where can we buy these tubes? Is there a good website selling these tubes worlwide?_

 

Just keep eyes on ebay. There is no better way to do it. Most the time I have good luck. Twice tubes arrived dead.


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## Seamaster

I got 12au7 adapters in the mail today. Thanks Glenn. They are always well made. Drop in a pair of Mullard CV4003, and let's roll......


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## Seamaster

Well, 12au7 was wast of money. Anyone pair WA22 with Grado beside me? I did not like my Grado RS-1 with WA22 a bit.


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## pedalhead

My HF-2s are definitely my second string headphones, but I quite enjoy them through the WA22, currently using EML 5U4G mesh, CV181-Z and Sylvania 7236. They're still too forward to be my favourite cans, but are quite a nice antidote to my usual HD800s if you know what I mean. What is it you're hearing (or not) with the RS-1/WA22 combo?


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## Seamaster

Compare with HD650, RS-1 got no soul. Sound dry not engaging, tone base not as solid as HD650. there is disconnection between mid range and bass. My DT880 sound better than that.

 How do you like your CV181-Z? Is that Shuguang?


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## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you like your CV181-Z? Is that Shuguang?_

 

Yes, they are the Shuguang. They're fine, but I struggle to hear any difference over the stock Motorola 6SN7s. So far, I don't hear any reason to spend the (big) money on them.


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## Seamaster

On offence, I could tell form your tube set-up is far from ideal with WA22.


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## tosehee

For me, the tube is suited for each individual's taste. I don't think there is THE tube for any particular setup. If it suits you, all the better. However, your setup may not be THE setup for others.

 Just a thought.


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## Seamaster

I have not find a person that do not like GEC 6AS7G compare with other 6AS7. No one would say GZ34 is very warm. Sometimes something is universal. You get my point.


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## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For me, the tube is suited for each individual's taste. I don't think there is THE tube for any particular setup. If it suits you, all the better. However, your setup may not be THE setup for others.

 Just a thought._

 

^ Agreed.


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## Seamaster

I know pedalhead's amp can do much better than his current tube set-up. I am just to help here.

 OK, I quit. Do where ever you want people.

 I feel really wast my time to write those reviews.


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## tosehee

Your reviews are helpful, and it's especially great when someone is trying to find the tube that meets his taste. My point is, while the great soundstage and impact is what you are after, it's not something that I or someone else is after.. You might like the detail and bass hit, but that's hardly what I like... You get the point?

 It'd be great to read your reviews on more objective manner and what they are good at and lacks. Not whether it's the best suited for you or someone else. That's ours to make.

 Just my $0.02.

 Regards


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## Seamaster

Like I said Sometimes something is universal that everyone will love. Stock WA22 Vs. tubed-up WA22 just like Bose Vs. a nice pair of Tannoy. I take Tannoy anytime. Only using stock tubes with WA22, you really have no idea what you have missed, or you already missed everything. 

 I don't think when Jack and his father created WA22, to expect to sound this good. I did not expect this good for $2350 (preamp) or $1900 either. That is why I tried 12AU7 to find out what was their design goal, what they were trying to achieve, and tonal reference was. Larry tested the prototype which used 12AU7 with very good result. But after tube rolling, I can tell WA22 got new life. I am not a bass head by any mean. The "impact" thing is very hard to explain for a person use English as 3rd language. It makes you "feel" the music...... Someone help me here?

 When I did my reviews, I did have everybody else tast in mind.

 When you get your own WA22 on hands, and find out what's going on, then you will owe me an apology. Remember that.


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## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_On offence, I could tell form your tube set-up is far from ideal with WA22._

 

No offence taken mate, everyone's ears are different, but you're doing a lot of legwork so the rest of us don't have to, and that is appreciated. As I mentioned in the other thread, I have a few tubes coming based on your recommendations & looking foward to hearing the results.


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## tosehee

What apologies do I have to make for sharing my thoughts? Like I said, I appreciate your doing this so rest of us have a head start. However, I still believe that every tube have their strength and weakness and while I agree that certain tubes excel than the other, the combo may not sound their best to one's ear than yours.

 In any rate, I will have to try out different things when my WA22 arrives at my door. That's still 4+ weeks away for me unfortunately. It's great though that you have such a high praise for this amp. What tube amp have you tried before WA22?


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## Frihed89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mrarroyo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would like to try the Sophia Electric 6SN7 in a Singlepower MPX3 Slam SE but it seems you all do not like them much. Currently I am using a pair of Raytheon 6SN7-GTB as the power tubes and they sound superb driven by a Tungsol 6BL7-GT._

 

I have never used this setup. Let me see if I have it straight.

 You are using a 6BL7GT (450-500V plate) as the input tube (I think the max plate voltage on the input is around 350V) and then you are using the 6SN7GTBs (also designed for around 450-500V) as the 2 output tube and, from other posts, I think I read that you have either bypassed the high-voltage switch for the output tubes, or you never had one.

 I am not being at all critical. I have never tried any of the high voltage tubes as inputs because of the lower plate voltage applied to the input.

 I have read elsewhere that the high voltage tubes sound good running as outputs at low voltage, but have never heard of anyone running them as inputs.

 So, what you are doing is interesting to me, given I also own an MPX3 Slam SE that's been repaired a bit.


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## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got 12au7 adapters in the mail today. Thanks Glenn. They are always well made. Drop in a pair of Mullard CV4003, and let's roll......_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, 12au7 was wast of money. Anyone pair WA22 with Grado beside me? I did not like my Grado RS-1 with WA22 a bit._

 

Oh shoot. I just ordered those adapters from Glenn to try out the Mullard ECC82/12AU7 I just ordered from the UK. I should have waited. Then again, the sound shift/difference and/or "feel" may be agreeable to my ears (mind, body & soul). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And honestly, Seamaster, thanks for all of your leg work with all of _them thar toobs_. It's been very enlightening. I only wish my hearing were as acute as yours.


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## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh shoot. I just ordered those adapters from Glenn to try out the Mullard ECC82/12AU7 I just ordered from the UK. I should have waited. Then again, the sound shift/difference and/or "feel" may be agreeable to my ears (mind, body & soul). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And honestly, Seamaster, thanks for all of your leg work with all of them thar toobs. It's been very enlightening. I only wish my hearing were as acute as yours._

 

best 12AU7 is nothing special against best 6SN7 with. 

 I had review on this. Maybe you could email glenn ASAP to cancel order or change to something else. Or you could comfrim my 12au7 finding for me. That make you feel better? Ha ha


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## Seamaster

Mullard CV4003 did sound better than Sylvania 6SN7WGTA brown base. But Both Ken Rad VT-231 clear glass and Brimar bettered CV4003. 12AU7 did do bass, but tonally not very balanced (or liner) across the range. Also sound little drier than 6SN7.


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## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Mullard CV4003 did sound better than Sylvania 6SN7WGTA brown base. But Both Ken Rad VT-231 clear glass and Brimar bettered CV4003. 12AU7 did do bass, but tonally not very balanced (or liner) across the range. Also sound little drier than 6SN7._

 

I can't wait to try out those VT-99 I got from Peter in UK. I did get Glenn to make those adapters with red wire--looks ultra- ubercool, and I guess you like VT-99, yes? These were Raytheon JAN CRP 6F8G VT-99.


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## Seamaster

I would love to try National Union, but no luck so far. But I am really happy with Raytheon JAN CRP 6F8G VT-99 for right now. 

 The Mazda 6CG7/6FQ7 bettered the Amperex 6CG7/6FQ7 US made by Philips. Mazda added back lifeness and tube lushness, which at one time I thought going to lose with Amperex in exchange for dynamic and impact. They cured the bass impact problem with EML to a point I would accept and willing to live with. But still less compare with GZ34.

 Then I wiped out all remianing Mazda 6CG7/6FQ7 on ebay for later use with my Melody M880. But all the tubes I got does not have shield. 

 One day Head-Fi member "sachu" ask me opinions on the 6CG7/6FQ7. I told him what I experienced. 5 min later he PM me said found a pair on the ebay. I check the picture he sent. Sure, a NOS pair of UK made Mazda 6CG7/6FQ7 with shield. " that is a home run" I told him. sachu worked out a deal with seller to close the auction just for him at higher price. But stilll he snatch the best tubes. I emailed him: " if you do not like the tubes when you get them, I will buy" 

 I am worndering shield and unshield make big difference? I am deeply in thought right now......


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## Seamaster

to me when matching gears and tubes, the most difficult are tonal balance and correctness. Midrange quality. Then the relation of the bass/mid bass matching other frequnency. Then treble balance.


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## pedalhead

Now that the adapaters have arrived, I've been comparing the Raytheon JAN 6F8G/VT99 with the Shuguang CV181. Clearly, I could have saved myself 300+ bucks. The sound opens up with these 6F8Gs, a little more space, and the bass is definitely harder hitting. Daft Punk's "Discovery" is great for testing bass tightness & impact, and this is definitely the best I have heard it. The 6F8G is less "tubey" sounding, with more of a SS flavour to it, but not so much that I no longer think I'm listening to a tube amp.

 Only problem is, one of my Raytheons has some noise which is audible during quiet passages. Nevertheless, depending on how the Mazda's sound (once their adapaters arrive), I may well buy another pair of these 6F8Gs.

 Anyway, everyone loves pictures, so here are a few....

 Adapters from 2359glenn on ebay





 6F8G details





 Shuguang CV181 installed





 Raytheon 6F8G + adapters installed





 closeup


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## pedalhead

Update...after some troubleshooting, the noise isn't from a particular tube, as it doesn't follow the tube when I swap channels. I swapped the adapters from one tube to the other and now the noise is only audible beyond listening levels. No idea why, but I'm not complaining. Might be an interference thing, so I'll try shutting everything else down later. One thing I can say in favour of the Shuguangs, they are absolutely silent.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Update...after some troubleshooting, the noise isn't from a particular tube, as it doesn't follow the tube when I swap channels. I swapped the adapters from one tube to the other and now the noise is only audible beyond listening levels. No idea why, but I'm not complaining. Might be an interference thing, so I'll try shutting everything else down later. One thing I can say in favour of the Shuguangs, they are absolutely silent._

 

Is this noise added "WITH" the adapter or audible without it?


----------



## pedalhead

It's present with the 6F8Gs installed (with adapters of course), but not present with the Shuguangs installed (no adapters obviously).


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's present with the 6F8Gs installed (with adapters of course), but not present with the Shuguangs installed (no adapters obviously)._

 

So, it's safe to say that hum is attributed to this adapter then. Not the fault w/ WA22.


----------



## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, it's safe to say that hum is attributed to this adapter then. Not the fault w/ WA22._

 

Well it's definitely not the amp, as the Shuguangs are totally silent on full volume, but I can't say for sure whether it's the adapters or the Raytheon tubes (which could be more succeptible to noise interferance perhaps). The noise is mainly in the left channel (when I say mainly, I mean it's louder in the left channel, but also audible in the right channel if I whack up the volume). But, when I swap the tubes (including adapters) around, it stays the same...mainly in the left channel. Moving the tubes on to each other's adapters kept the noise in the same channel, but made it quieter in both channels, meaning I have to raise the volume a few steps above listening level in order to hear the noise, even out of the left channel. Don't know why, maybe just needed reseating, although for sure there still is some noise, it is no longer audible at listening level.

 If it stays that way, I'm happy, but I'll do some more troubleshooting later on. I presume it's ok to power on this amp with just the adapters and no driver tubes present?


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Now that the adapaters have arrived, I've been comparing the Raytheon JAN 6F8G/VT99 with the Shuguang CV181. Clearly, I could have saved myself 300+ bucks. ...

 closeup



_

 

Hey pedalhead. Is that red wire on the left 6F8G adapter coming in contact with the EML 5U4G? Could that be the cause of the hum?


----------



## pedalhead

Good thought but the pics are a bit misleading as I made sure the wires were clear of the rectifier. Having said that, the left wire is closer than the right and I haven't tested that as a potential culprit, so thanks and I'll check that out in the morning (working tonight).


----------



## Seamaster

I had same problem before. 6F8G will quit down with use. Let it run about 20 hours, and see if the noise still there. Keep the wire away form the EML, that thing is HOT. If you want add some tubiness back to your system, use GEC 6080.


----------



## pedalhead

Thanks Seamaster. Yeah it's a shame that adapter cable exits right towards the rectifier, which as you say does get hot as blazes. I might ask Glenn what his cable outer is rated to for heat actually, as I think it'll be impossible to get the wire more than a centimeter or two away from the EML.


----------



## Seamaster

turn the Cap little bit, that will give you more clearance, 2~3 cm is all you need I think. Have you try to clean pins and caps? I aways clean all sockets, pins and contacts before use them.


----------



## pedalhead

Haven't cleaned them no. Is there any specific product that's recommended for this, or will some isopropyl alcohol do? I always have a load of that around for cleaning bike bits.


----------



## Seamaster

I use Deoxit Gold GX5. For pins and caps I spray it on a Q-tip then wipe the pins with. You do not have to clean them off, just leave the product on there. For Sockets I just spray in side and holes. Works geat! for heavily stained the pins, apply Deoxit Gold GX5, and let it sit over night and do it again.


----------



## pedalhead

Great, thanks for the info. I'll see if I can track some down over here. It's really ok to spray that stuff into the sockets? Does it evaporate like isopropyl alcohol?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great, thanks for the info. I'll see if I can track some down over here. It's really ok to spray that stuff into the sockets? Does it evaporate like isopropyl alcohol?_

 

For more detail:

caig.com - Home of DeoxIT - CAIG Laboratories, Inc.

 I never had problem.


----------



## pedalhead

Cheers for the link. That stuff isn't cheap, but I guess it probably lasts quite a while.

 On another note, I don't know about anyone else, but I do get a kick out of the thought that I'm listening to tubes manufacturered as far back as during WWII, and they sound great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Seamaster. Yeah it's a shame that adapter cable exits right towards the rectifier, which as you say does get hot as blazes. I might ask Glenn what his cable outer is rated to for heat actually, as I think it'll be impossible to get the wire more than a centimeter or two away from the EML._

 

I got those same adapters from Glenn last month. Before I ordered them I asked him if he could make them with red wire as suggested by Seamaster and he said: *I have new silacon [sic] rubber red wire that I am going to use on the new adapters that i'll be making for you.* I then asked him what was "new" about the wire and his answer was: _*"New wire is more flexable has more strands can stand high temperatures and looks better. I think it sounds better Hard to tell just 5" of different wire in a [w]hole system. It's much more expensive for me to buy. You will like it." --Regards Glenn*_. I know his answer doesn't exactly address what the cable is rated at but it does tell you a little more about its makeup. I hope this helps.


----------



## Seamaster

Great Clayton SF, you just broke my heart by tell me this new wire


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cheers for the link. That stuff isn't cheap, but I guess it probably lasts quite a while.

 On another note, I don't know about anyone else, but I do get a kick out of the thought that I'm listening to tubes manufacturered as far back as during WWII, and they sound great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




._

 

That stuff works like magic. Well worthy the money. I spray all the socket and connectors when I 1st got my WA22

 Ｉ　ｆｅｅｌ　ｔｈｅ　ｓａｍｅ　ｗａｙ．


----------



## pedalhead

Great news...the noise on my amp is definitely caused by the proximity of the left adapter wire to the rectifier tube. I've rotated it as far away as possible, and it's no longer an issue. Phew!


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great news...the noise on my amp is definitely caused by the proximity of the left adapter wire to the rectifier tube. I've rotated it as far away as possible, and it's no longer an issue. Phew!_

 

Good to hear. I might order one of these adapters and try out the 6F8G.


----------



## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear. I might order one of these adapters and try out the 6F8G._

 

Good idea, though I'd recommend getting two adapters


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good idea, though I'd recommend getting two adapters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I just might do that. 

 What tubes make the most dramatic changes? I am wondering what order I should roll the tubes.. Rec/Driver/power?


----------



## pedalhead

I haven't played around with the rectifier yet, but rolling power and driver tubes both yielded a fair bit of difference. Well, to be more accurate on the driver tubes, going from 6SN7 to 6F8G made a difference, but two different sets of 6SN7 sounded similar to me. At some point I'll try out the stock rectifier as well & see what a difference the EML makes, but I like it too much to remove it so far .


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Great news...the noise on my amp is definitely caused by the proximity of the left adapter wire to the rectifier tube. I've rotated it as far away as possible, and it's no longer an issue. Phew!_

 

Wonderful news. No *Hum*bug this Christmas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Heheheehee. It seems that people are loving the 6F8G. I had never heard of that tube until I saw Seamaster's pictures. Actually, I had never heard of most of the tubes that Seamaster's been rolling. It's hard to keep up with him!


----------



## Seamaster

Rec/Driver Change the sound the most. power tube does change the sound too. WA22 very sensitive to tube rolling.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Rec/Driver Change the sound the most. power tube does change the sound too. WA22 very sensitive to tube rolling._

 

Cool. Thanks for this info.

 I guess I will roll those first.. Thanks.


----------



## Seamaster

Tubes Asylum: RE: 6F8G/ VT99 Observations by posbwp55@msn.com


----------



## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wonderful news. No *Hum*bug this Christmas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 









  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Tubes Asylum: RE: 6F8G/ VT99 Observations by posbwp55@msn.com_

 

Interesting reading, cheers. Good to see Skylab in action over there too. Looks like a good place to learn about tubes.


----------



## pedalhead

So, Glenn has been in touch & confirmed that the adapter wire should be fine from a heat perspective if it's 1 centimeter or so away from the rectifier. He also mentioned that it can pick up interference if it's very close, which concurs with my experience.


----------



## Seamaster

End of Report


----------



## tosehee

Seamaster.

 Have you tried/compared Sylvania 7236 with 6AS7 and 6080?


----------



## Seamaster

Here is the thing with many people have comfirmed: GEC 6AS7G are the best. So I kind jump the chain went for the GEC and never looked back. Sorry I never try and wast my money on Sylvania 7236


----------



## Oskari

How would you describe the difference in sound quality between GEC 6080 and GEC 6AS7G?


----------



## pedalhead

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is the thing with many people have comfirmed: GEC 6AS7G are the best. So I kind jump the chain went for the GEC and never looked back. Sorry I never try and wast my money on Sylvania 7236_

 

Do you mean the stock GE 6AS7GA that Jack supplies with the WA22?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean the stock GE 6AS7GA that Jack supplies with the WA22?_

 

I mean G.E.C 6AS7G that made in England.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How would you describe the difference in sound quality between GEC 6080 and GEC 6AS7G?_

 


 1st of all GEC 6080 are very nice tubes. Compare to GEC 6AS7G, 6080 have less sparkly hight, and less up-range extention. Both types have very nice soomth engaging mid range and vocal. 6080 sound little darker, warm, and very little bit thick. Bass maybe different but not noticed. Sondstage with 6AS7G seens little wider, maybe caused by its brighter imaging or persentation. 

 Also please notice all my cables are copper and I used HD650 for review. At this point I don't want anymore detail retriving power from my system. Or otherwise half my CD collection will be sorry.

 Belive or not the best sounding CD in my collection by far are two female vocal albums that were Made in China. Yes you heard that right. My wife found them for me, she is pretty handy. These two CDs were recorded from Vinyl that originally recorded and made in Germany. Looks like a turntable is my next step down the road.


----------



## Seamaster

Got a pair of Telefunken 6080WA in the mail. The tube internal built and finish very tight like the GEC, Regular Telefunken logo as usually seen on one side. "Made in Germany" under logo. There is code "68-33", then under that there is very small crown looking logo say "BWB 448". Inside amost indentical to GEC beside: two big O getters on the top as GEC have D getters. There are two heat shields under the each O getter, GEC have none. Heater have more copper color to it. Metal base, black socket. I checked all 4 pair GEC and few pair of US made 6080, nothing like these.

 hum... I was told by Skylab Telefunken never made such tubes, must be russian.

 Well I will plug in to find out now.


----------



## Seamaster

Hum... they are qiuet, not as soomth as GEC 6080, good high extension, good sense of air, less warm and less body and much colder tone. Bass has less impact but pretty quick and clean. GEC 6080 sound BIG compare with those. Well, GEC are still the king for 6AS7G and 6080 type no doubt anymore. 

 For those of you can't find or afford GEC Macroni 6AS7G, GEC 6080 are nice improvment over other tubes of this family.


----------



## yilmaz196

Guys, should we change tubes with power cord plugged off, or it is enough to power off the amp by the power knob.


----------



## Seamaster

You don't have to unplug the cord. Just turn off the amp, and wait tubes to cool down for 5~10 min, then pull the tubes.


----------



## Oskari

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got a pair of Telefunken 6080WA in the mail. The tube internal built and finish very tight like the GEC, Regular Telefunken logo as usually seen on one side. "Made in Germany" under logo. There is code "68-33", then under that there is very small crown looking logo say "BWB 448"._

 

Is it the eagle symbol like on these Siemens E81CC tubes?

 BWB = Bundesamt für Wehrtechnik und Beschaffung = Federal Office of Defense Technology and Procurement

 I.e., tubes for the German military.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hum... I was told by Skylab Telefunken never made such tubes, must be russian._

 

According to this message (in German) Telefunken did make them in Ulm, and the photo here shows a code starting with the letter U for Ulm. I have yet to see a Russian equivalent.

 By the way, thanks for the GEC 6AS7G vs. 6080 comparison.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it the eagle symbol like on these Siemens E81CC tubes?

 BWB = Bundesamt für Wehrtechnik und Beschaffung = Federal Office of Defense Technology and Procurement

 I.e., tubes for the German military.._

 

Yes, that is what on the tubes!


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Oskari* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to this message (in German) Telefunken did make them in Ulm, and the photo here shows a code starting with the letter U for Ulm. I have yet to see a Russian equivalent.

 By the way, thanks for the GEC 6AS7G vs. 6080 comparison._

 

Yes same print, beside mine have small BWB 448 logo.

 I got them for $20, they will lid up a dark system.


----------



## Seamaster

Back from Seattle mini meet:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f45/se...ml#post6234753


----------



## Seamaster

I combind http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/eml...s-wa22-456533/ and this thread together at 3rd post.


----------



## pedalhead

Yeah good idea on merging the threads.

 So, I've been trying out the Mazda 6CG7s as the adapters arrived today. Perhaps it's just these specific tubes, but they're not a patch on the Raytheon 6F8Gs in my system. The Mazdas are far less resolving, which a comparatively compressed soundstage. Basically, the Raytheons do everything better. I'll give them some more time to run in, but unless something drastic improves I'll be sticking with the Raytheons (and may actually buy a third pair...I like them that much).


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah good idea on merging the threads.

 So, I've been trying out the Mazda 6CG7s as the adapters arrived today. Perhaps it's just these specific tubes, but they're not a patch on the Raytheon 6F8Gs in my system. The Mazdas are far less resolving, which a comparatively compressed soundstage. Basically, the Raytheons do everything better. I'll give them some more time to run in, but unless something drastic improves I'll be sticking with the Raytheons (and may actually buy a third pair...I like them that much)._

 

I was under the impression that Mazda is one of the best 6CG7 tube. It should have trump the Raytheon.. I found your findings little odd..


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah good idea on merging the threads.

 So, I've been trying out the Mazda 6CG7s as the adapters arrived today. Perhaps it's just these specific tubes, but they're not a patch on the Raytheon 6F8Gs in my system. The Mazdas are far less resolving, which a comparatively compressed soundstage. Basically, the Raytheons do everything better. I'll give them some more time to run in, but unless something drastic improves I'll be sticking with the Raytheons (and may actually buy a third pair...I like them that much)._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was under the impression that Mazda is one of the best 6CG7 tube. It should have trump the Raytheon.. I found your findings little odd.._

 

 I will double check tonight, and have special listening section just for you.


----------



## pedalhead

Yes after Seamaster's positive findings with the Mazdas, I was expecting a lot more. I'll spend some more time with them but the differences were quite marked to my ears.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes after Seamaster's positive findings with the Mazdas, I was expecting a lot more. I'll spend some more time with them but the differences were quite marked to my ears._

 

Mazda 6FQ7 is actually quite well known to be a top performer. I was curious about this tube for a while, but it was pretty difficult to find a NOS in ebay.

 Thanks to Seamaster, I was able to find them online and bought one. I thought it would be great, but your finding got me little puzzled. 

 If your WA22 is not fully burned in, I'd wait till it settles down and try it again.


----------



## Seamaster

There is no win or lose about 6F8G VS. UK made Mazda 6FQ7. It all come down to personal tast.

 Note: Other 6FQ7 is not up to the task.

 I just emailed Modwright for cap upgrade, since he is local to me(2.5 hours drive). I heard many good things about this company. Hope I could get good deal/sound out of this.


----------



## Seamaster

I am intrigued with the option as I know that it is a popular product, but at the moment, we are simply too busy. I am interested in pursuing this however, as the headphone market is a strong one and I know that we could REALLY improve the designs!

 I am pretty much booked until after CES! If you would be so good as to contact me after Jan. 12th, I would be most interested in speaking with you about it and would offer you mods for your unit as a discounted rate, in order to have the opportunity to explore the design and see what is possible in terms of improving the design for mods!

 Thanks and please do check back with me!

 Dan

 President, ModWright Instruments Inc (MWI) Modwright - Elegance. Simplicity. Truth. Great audio gear from the ground up, and first class modifications.
 1.360.247.6688 


 ________________________________


 Hi Sir,

 My mane is Griffin, I have this stock Woo Audio 22 balanced headphone
 amplifier:
Woo Audio 22 Fully Balanced Headphone Tube Amplifier

 After some very intense tube rolling, it sounds much better than stock. But last weekend I brought my amp to Seattle Head-Fi mini meet, and pair it up with Sennheiser HD800, which is new king of headphone around block. I found my amp lost its "impact" and "density" with music. The amp right now is lush, polite, have very nice soundstage and 3D imaging, but no impact and density. 

 I came across this fellow Head-Fier with much lower end Woo Audio amp Woo3+, but with blackgate upgrade. The sound quality took me by surprise. The blackgate is huge improvement over stock. That made me think of cap upgrade.
 So far Wood Audio only offer stock WA22 with no upgrade option what so ever. 

 Your company name was mentioned many times at Seattle meet, and I also heard you make your own caps, and many good things about your other products. I am here asking for your help to take my amp to next level. Thank you very much.

 Very lucky I live local at Montesano WA 98563


----------



## Seamaster

I asked Dan comes up with a upgrade package for WA22. But seen it is going to take some time.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I asked Dan comes up with a upgrade package for WA22. But seen it is going to take some time._

 

I gather your WA22 will be Dan's first Woo. Did you meet anyone at the Seattle meet with Dan's mods? And if so on which amps? It will be interesting to see what he does with your power supply.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I gather your WA22 will be Dan's first Woo. Did you meet anyone at the Seattle meet with Dan's mods? And if so on which amps? It will be interesting to see what he does with your power supply. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

No, that idea just popped up in my mind at meet. I rather just let him mod the PC board section where all the caps are, try to keep the cost down. There is no reason to spend $2000 USD to mod $2000 gear.


----------



## yilmaz196

Which one is better? Sylvania 7236 comes with wa22(for extra dollars forsure) or tung sol 5998?


----------



## Seamaster

I just went straight to G.E.Cs


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just went straight to G.E.Cs_

 

Aren't you the lucky one. Most people can't find these available on ebay.

 With that said, the general consensus is that 5AS7G from Tung Sol or Raytheon is great. RCA is also very good.

 Sylvania 7236 will more than double the output and it's definitely a good performer also.


----------



## anetode

So after a couple of months of use the Sophia 274b has developed an annoying buzz. Has anyone else had this uber-rectifier fail quite so soon?


----------



## yilmaz196

I read something about this in this forum. I hope mine dont fail so soon.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anetode* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So after a couple of months of use the Sophia 274b has developed an annoying buzz. Has anyone else had this uber-rectifier fail quite so soon?_

 

Have you try to clean tubes pins and your sockets? You are not the 1st case with Sophia I think. 


 Well I never had failed tube so far, very lucky.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, that idea just popped up in my mind at meet. I rather just let him mod the PC board section where all the caps are, try to keep the cost down. There is no reason to spend $2000 USD to mod $2000 gear._

 

I read somewhere that you favored the SPL Phonitor over the WA22 with the HD800. Did you have a chance to listen to the SPL Auditor with your HD800?


----------



## Clayton SF

I just got a Sovtek 5U4G rectifier. It's not like the stock rectifier that comes with some Woos like the WA6 and WA22 (before being replaced with the 5Z4G). This rectifier differs in that it has 2 getters and the glass seems to be much thicker--look at it's left shoulder; thick green glass like a Margarita glass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am wondering that since 2 getters make for a better vacuum it would also have a positive impact in the amp's sound stage. That is one Sovtek over the other =C=. That is the single getter versus the duo one. I guess time will tell. Jus' a-wonderin' if anyone else has tried this tube. The photos below are of the two-getter Sovtek.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read somewhere that you favored the SPL Phonitor over the WA22 with the HD800. Did you have a chance to listen to the SPL Auditor with your HD800?_

 

The tonal balanced SPL Phonitor with HD800 is better than WA22 with SE HD800 IMO, HD800 sounds lean with WA22 no matter what tubes I used. I did brought quite few tubes to the meet. BUT at same time Phonitor lack tube magic, it is not as soulfull as WA22, and less 3D imaging, more 2D feel with Phonitor.

 I never heard SPL Auditor. HD800 was not mine, and was lawtonaudio recabled, which means it is much more soomth and more impact than stock HD800. Even all that, HD800 was not my cup of tea, it did not put me INTO the music. I ordered T1 instead. 

 Now, the weakest link in my system is my balanced HD650.


----------



## ygm

How important is power tube matching for the wa22? Across sections and channels?

 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Seamaster

WA22 is quite forgiving on tube matching. You would not hear difference if tubes are within 20% I guess. 

 I just bought B&K 747 Tube Tester Calibrated 2008, and test the tubes I have beening using are off match as much as 20%. But I could not hear any difference.


----------



## tosehee

I thought power tube is quite important in tube matching, but not the driver.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just got a Sovtek 5U4G rectifier. It's not like the stock rectifier that comes with some Woos like the WA6 and WA22 (before being replaced with the 5Z4G). This rectifier differs in that it has 2 getters and the glass seems to be much thicker--look at it's left shoulder; thick green glass like a Margarita glass. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am wondering that since 2 getters make for a better vacuum it would also have a positive impact in the amp's sound stage. That is one Sovtek over the other =C=. That is the single getter versus the duo one. I guess time will tell. Jus' a-wonderin' if anyone else has tried this tube. The photos below are of the two-getter Sovtek.







_

 

Why are your 6SN7's so clean? Both of mine have a big black spot on the side of the tube and the top is blackened a bit (I think).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are your 6SN7's so clean? Both of mine have a big black spot on the side of the tube and the top is blackened a bit (I think)._

 

Oops. Sorry. I replaced the WA22's stock 6SN7's with some GE's from Canada that I had bought a few months ago. The 6SN7's that came with my WA22 have black spots as well. And one is darkening more than the other.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought power tube is quite important in tube matching, but not the driver._

 

Woo Amps are auto braising I guess. Matching tubes is always good for the amp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The tonal balanced SPL Phonitor with HD800 is better than WA22 with SE HD800 IMO, HD800 sounds lean with WA22 no matter what tubes I used. I did brought quite few tubes to the meet. BUT at same time Phonitor lack tube magic, it is not as soulfull as WA22, and less 3D imaging, more 2D feel with Phonitor.

 I never heard SPL Auditor. HD800 was not mine, and was lawtonaudio recabled, which means it is much more soomth and more impact than stock HD800. Even all that, HD800 was not my cup of tea, it did not put me INTO the music. I ordered T1 instead. 

 Now, the weakest link in my system is my balanced HD650._

 

I've just been recently reading about the T1. As I understand it the Beyerdynamic Tesla T1 Headphones can be preordered. Where were you able to audition these or are you getting them solely upon someone's recommendation or your good intuition? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You must let us know how they compare to the HD800s.


----------



## Seamaster

I heard a few different top of the line cans at meet. They were all better than my HD650 balanced, which I have owned for many years, piss me off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Well those cans were better in different ways, and each carries their own signatures. Some Signatures I like , and some I don't; but they all sounded better than my HD650.

 I was going to buy HD800 as replacement of my HD650 untill I heard them. HD800 is not good with all kind of music. If you only listen to soft music, they may do just fine. But I want to rock out sometimes. I have owned Grado RS-1 for a few month, the divoice was rather quick. Edition 8 was very close, look at the price Vs. the sound production: No. And they sound closed-in. Denon D7000 even recabled, the tonal balanced is off. AT L3000, way too much midrange with WA22 that overcome every other range. What else on the market? So the T1.

 I keep my fingers crossed on T1, that's all I got for now on them.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I heard a few different top of the line cans at meet. They were all better than my HD650 balanced, which I have owned for many years, piss me off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Well those cans were better in different ways, and each carries their own signatures. Some Signatures I like , and some I don't; but they all sounded better than my HD650.

 I was going to buy HD800 as replacement of my HD650 untill I heard them. HD800 is not good with all kind of music. If you only listen to soft music, they may do just fine. But I want to rock out sometimes. I have owned Grado RS-1 for a few month, the divoice was rather quick. Edition 8 was very close, look at the price Vs. the sound production: No. And they sound closed-in. Denon D7000 even recabled, the tonal balanced is off. AT L3000, way too much midrange with WA22 that overcome every other range. What else on the market? So the T1.

 I keep my fingers crossed on T1, that's all I got for now on them._

 

The specs and pricing make its purchase compelling (they're priced slightly under the HD800s). I hope they fit the bill--literally. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And hope its a perfect marriage between Woo and Beyer. Well, nothing's perfect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so I hope it almost perfect. It'll just be another episode of rolling tubes. Almost like cracking a safe--6SN7 to the left, KT99 to the right--but not at the same time!


----------



## Seamaster

Problem I have with HD800 is their strength, soundstage, which is so far apart makes me feel the artists fell off the stage and playing on against side wall of the hall. 

 Also the impact feel and bass.

 I love VT99, they put a lot souls in WA22.


----------



## Clayton SF

Seamaster, when you rolled lots of tubes at the Seattle meet, how long did you listen to a set of tubes before rolling to the next set and how long did you leave the amp off before turning it on again to listen to the next set of tubes?


----------



## Seamaster

I got there early, and preheated the amp for 45min+. I had each set of tube about over one hour. I swaped tubes after 2min I turnned it off. I know it was not healthy for the amp, but there was no time to wait. The meet had only 8 people, so noise was too big of issure.

 I totaly rolled 3 sets, best 3 sets I had.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woo Amps are auto braising I guess. Matching tubes is always good for the amp._

 

What is auto braising?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Auto biasing, I think is what he meant to say?


----------



## Clayton SF

This is a description of auto biasing on the PrimaLuna DiaLogue 2 amp.

 [T]his circuit monitors and adjusts bias automatically. Each power tube is monitored to stay in a peak operating range. Improved performance and better sound, with distortion reduced by 40% to 50% over conventional designs. No need for matched tubes. No bias adjustments. Ever. ...


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Auto biasing, I think is what he meant to say?_

 

Oh. lol.

 I got it now. So, is Woo amps really auto biasing?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh. lol.

 I got it now. So, is Woo amps really auto biasing?_

 

When they last time you see Woo owners have to adjust their amps? So, yes they are auto "Braising" LOL


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When they last time you see Woo owners have to adjust their amps? So, yes they are auto "Braising" LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Auto "Braising" means the Woo makes you dinner while you listen to your music! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The more the Woo costs, the better the meal.


----------



## ygm

So is everyone using matched power tubes as well as driver tubes in their wa22?


----------



## Seamaster

Matched tubes are better, but not critical. I can't hear any difference.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So is everyone using matched power tubes as well as driver tubes in their wa22?_

 

I'd get matched power tube if you could. I don't care too much about the driver being matched though.


----------



## ygm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd get matched power tube if you could. I don't care too much about the driver being matched though._

 

Do you mean matched sections or matched left-to-right or both?


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean matched sections or matched left-to-right or both?_

 

matched left to right usually.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Update...after some troubleshooting, the noise isn't from a particular tube, as it doesn't follow the tube when I swap channels. I swapped the adapters from one tube to the other and now the noise is only audible beyond listening levels. No idea why, but I'm not complaining. Might be an interference thing, so I'll try shutting everything else down later. One thing I can say in favour of the Shuguangs, they are absolutely silent._

 

How do you like your WA22 now? Please share. Thanks


----------



## yilmaz196

What power tubes can we buy other than gec 6as7g? It is very hard to find. I have sylvania 7236. Is there any good tubes makes difference in sq? Is it worth to change this 7236?


----------



## BIG POPPA

The Sylvania is an OK tube. Mullard CV2986(6080) is way nicer. The GEC A1834 (6as7) is the smoothest and most musical tube IMO. Listening to it now. Have a Bendix 6080 coming too. If you PM me I will share my tricks to scoring tubes.


----------



## Seamaster

Welcome to GEC club BIG POPPA, I kenw you are going to fall in love with them


----------



## BIG POPPA

What is going to happen when the Bendix 6080WB comes? I will have some tough choices it looks like? Will have a decent tube collection at least.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Problem I have with HD800 is their strength, soundstage, which is so far apart makes me feel the artists fell off the stage and playing on against side wall of the hall. 

 Also the impact feel and bass.

 I love VT99, they put a lot souls in WA22._

 

Ahh yes, when I ran my HD-800 stock SE cord with my WA6SE and Sylvania 6EW7 along with my BD-83, the soundstage was kinda as you describe it.

 However with my new Oppo BD-83SE Nuforce edition, all of what you described has gone away. The soundstage is still wide but only where you would expect it to be. And there is also a more 3D effect in the soundstage. 

 I am now using a HD-800 Cardas Cable SE and RCA circa 1963 6EW7. This combo with my BD-83 took care of the soundstage being to wide, but with the BD-83NE there is very little difference in what tubes I use and also what headphone cable I use. 

 ss


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yilmaz196* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What power tubes can we buy other than gec 6as7g? It is very hard to find. I have sylvania 7236. Is there any good tubes makes difference in sq? Is it worth to change this 7236?_

 

Sylvania 7236 is an excellent power tube. It's more than great one unless you can score something better such as GEC named here..

 GEC is rare beauty and very hard to spot one. I'd be happy with 7236 for the most part though.


----------



## Seamaster

If you can't afford/find GEC 6AS7G, try GEC 6880 / CV2984

 Here is one pair on ebay right now:
MULLARD VALVE TUBE CV2984 6080 MATCHED PR 2 PCS N.O.S. - eBay (item 310191191840 end time Jan-07-10 04:28:06 PST)

 I just scored some matched pair NOS National Union 6F8G, at $90 a pair. They suppose to be the best 6F8G type. I hope they are worthy the money.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahh yes, when I ran my HD-800 stock SE cord with my WA6SE and Sylvania 6EW7 along with my BD-83, the soundstage was kinda as you describe it.

 However with my new Oppo BD-83SE Nuforce edition, all of what you described has gone away. The soundstage is still wide but only where you would expect it to be. And there is also a more 3D effect in the soundstage. 

 I am now using a HD-800 Cardas Cable SE and RCA circa 1963 6EW7. This combo with my BD-83 took care of the soundstage being to wide, but with the BD-83NE there is very little difference in what tubes I use and also what headphone cable I use. 

 ss_

 

So HD800 are your finnal headphone? Seem like you made setup change just to make HD800 happy.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you can't afford/find GEC 6AS7G, try GEC 6880 / CV2984

 Here is one pair on ebay right now:
MULLARD VALVE TUBE CV2984 6080 MATCHED PR 2 PCS N.O.S. - eBay (item 310191191840 end time Jan-07-10 04:28:06 PST)

 I just scored some matched pair NOS National Union 6F8G, at $90 a pair. They suppose to be the best 6F8G type. I hope they are worthy the money._

 

I got a pair from him. Very nice compared to the Sylvainia. GEC is smoother though. The CV 2984 is what I used until the GEC showed up.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got a pair from him. Very nice compared to the Sylvainia. GEC is smoother though. The CV 2984 is what I used until the GEC showed up._

 

For that price, thay are very nice indeed.

 Don't forget to write up Bendix 6080WB VS. GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## TheAudioDude

This is making me really excited. I can't wait to try out some tubes!

 Seamaster- thanks for replying to my PMs, same goes to you BIG POPPA.

 I think the combination of 6F8G (still have to decide which one to buy, or I could buy all of them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and GEC would be something great. I'll probably wait a little longer to upgrade my rectifier tube though.


----------



## yilmaz196

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you can't afford/find GEC 6AS7G, try GEC 6880 / CV2984

 Here is one pair on ebay right now:
MULLARD VALVE TUBE CV2984 6080 MATCHED PR 2 PCS N.O.S. - eBay (item 310191191840 end time Jan-07-10 04:28:06 PST)

 I just scored some matched pair NOS National Union 6F8G, at $90 a pair. They suppose to be the best 6F8G type. I hope they are worthy the money._

 

 It says low impedance. Cant these drives high impedance headphones? I am using hd800.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is making me really excited. I can't wait to try out some tubes!

 Seamaster- thanks for replying to my PMs, same goes to you BIG POPPA.

 I think the combination of 6F8G (still have to decide which one to buy, or I could buy all of them
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and GEC would be something great. I'll probably wait a little longer to upgrade my rectifier tube though._

 

IMHO, I would upgrade rectifier to EML since you are using D7000 right now, as Sophia is going to make sound brighter. Mean time holding on to your money keep seeking GEC, and right dirver tubes.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yilmaz196* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It says low impedance. Cant these drives high impedance headphones? I am using hd800._

 

No problem, I have some these myself, they work just like 6AS7G


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For that price, thay are very nice indeed.

 Don't forget to write up Bendix 6080WB VS. GEC 6AS7G. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I will have a write up after I have a few more tubes show up in the mail. Mullard CV2984 vs GEC A1834 vs Bendix 6080WB. Hell of a write up.


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So HD800 are your finnal headphone? Seem like you made setup change just to make HD800 happy._

 

Not really, the only necessary change was rolling out the Sylvania 6EW7 for the RCAs.

 Yes I did upgrade my source player but that was to improve the overall AQ. 

 The EML 274B solid plate I already was using by the time I got the HD-800s.

 imo because of the very large EML Rectifier and its longer plate structure, complements the HD-800 because the EML has a deeper, wider sound stage and spatial effect and thus uses the strengths of the HD-800. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So HD800 are your finnal headphone? Seem like you made setup change just to make HD800 happy._

 

Not really, the only necessary change was rolling out the Sylvania 6EW7 for the RCAs.

 Yes I did upgrade my source player but that was to improve the overall AQ. 

 The EML 274B solid plate I already was using by the time I got the HD-800s.

 imo because of the very large EML Rectifier and its longer plate structure, complements the HD-800 because the EML has a deeper, wider sound stage and spatial effect and thus uses the strengths of the HD-800, along with my BD-83NE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss


----------



## tosehee

EML is one of the best rectifier for Woo Amps for sure. It's pretty darn hard to beat that from many impressions I read.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not really, the only necessary change was rolling out the Sylvania 6EW7 for the RCAs.

 Yes I did upgrade my source player but that was to improve the overall AQ. 

 The EML 274B solid plate I already was using by the time I got the HD-800s.

 imo because of the very large EML Rectifier and its longer plate structure, complements the HD-800 because the EML has a deeper, wider sound stage and spatial effect and thus uses the strengths of the HD-800. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ss_

 

What sound difference between EML 274B and EML 5U4G? Any idea? EML begain to reduce glass size of their tubes, I just emailed them.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EML is one of the best rectifier for Woo Amps for sure. It's pretty darn hard to beat that from many impressions I read._

 

EML is it one of the best with right driver tubes. I dislike them with 6SN7 type, which make the amp too warm. Only 6SN7 I own sound good is Ken Rad VT-231. But again they can be beaten by 6F8G. HD800 owner could get away using 6SN7 as driver since HD800 need some help with thickness and body with WA22


----------



## tosehee

My WA22 is shipping at the end of this week, so I will be able to contribute my impression soon enough..


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA22 is shipping at the end of this week, so I will be able to contribute my impression soon enough.._

 

Welcome to the bad boy's club bro. I am happy for you. Please make sure you log 50+ hours on the amp before getting any serious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What color did you get?


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Welcome to the bad boy's club bro. I am happy for you. Please make sure you log 50+ hours on the amp before getting any serious 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What color did you get?_

 

Silver.


----------



## yilmaz196

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yilmaz196* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It says low impedance. Cant these drives high impedance headphones? I am using hd800._

 

Seamaster, these power tubes really makes difference over my 7236s? Dont want to make unnecessary expense.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yilmaz196* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seamaster, these power tubes really makes difference over my 7236s? Dont want to make unnecessary expense. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Why don't you sell me your 7236 for cheap and get yourself a GEC?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yilmaz196* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seamaster, these power tubes really makes difference over my 7236s? Dont want to make unnecessary expense. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The improvment over power tube is not as great as either driver tube and rectifier, but well worthy 10% better in SQ and 20% in refinment. I did not mean over stock tubes, because I ordered my amp with no tubes, knowing I was going to trash stocks tubes anyway. I got GEC, and never looked back. I tried a few times put in other 6AS7 types I got, none of them stay on the amp for one whole day. Ofcourse I did use them before. 

 Tubes tried:
 GEC 6AS7G Cup base
 GEC 6AS7G Straight base
 Russian 6AS7G a few
 CBS 6AS7G
 RCA 6AS7G / black and gray plate
 Jan CRC 6AS7G
 Telefunken 6080WA
 Mullard 6080 / A2984
 GEC 6080 / A2984
 Slyvania 6080WC
 GE 6080

 Only GEC and Mullard 6080 were good replacement if I don't have GEC 6AS7G

 The end


----------



## sillysally

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What sound difference between EML 274B and EML 5U4G? Any idea? EML begain to reduce glass size of their tubes, I just emailed them._

 

I have both the mesh and solid plate 274B EML. There is no comparison between the solid and mesh. The solid is a much faster tube than the mesh, also the glass on the solid is taller and ticker. The EML 274B solid sounds very close to the Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier, except the EML 274B Solid plate has a deeper and higher soundstage plus a spatial effect. 

 I don't see a lot of difference between the EML 274B mesh and the 5U4G mesh, so I am not interested in the EML 5U4G mesh. What would be interesting is a EML 5U4G solid plate. 

 ss


----------



## Seamaster

Thanks, I think last time I asked for worng tube, 5U4G soild.


----------



## ygm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My WA22 is shipping at the end of this week, so I will be able to contribute my impression soon enough.._

 

When did you place your order? Mine was on Nov 5th. (Also in silver)


----------



## ygm

What stock tubes did your wa22 come with?

 Thanks in advance


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What stock tubes did your wa22 come with?

 Thanks in advance_

 

I haven't received yet. As I said, it's shipping at the end of this week or early next week. I will probably get it by mid or late next week.


----------



## ygm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I haven't received yet. As I said, it's shipping at the end of this week or early next week. I will probably get it by mid or late next week._

 

When did you place the order if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When did you place the order if you don't mind me asking?_

 

I don't remember exactly. About 8 weeks ago.


----------



## Seamaster

I will drop off my amp this coming Monday at Modwright. 2 hours 15 min drive for me, not bad. Then I will have fun at strip club at Portland after that. No, just kidding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I talked to Dan the owner, only thing that for sure right now is using Mundorf Sliver/Oil Caps. I chose that cap based on my intense study, the sound signature of the cap relate to WA22, size, and price point. I DO NOT want blackgtes. I know Modwright have their own caps, but I could not find reviews or any comments, I do not want to take the risk. 

 I mainly want to Mod the PC board section, which should be easy. Dan told me he will come up a package price for all WA22. My goal is using WA22 as base, and given sub $3000 USD (with amp) to compete with other top the line headphone/pre amps.

 Dan is very nice to deal with so far. I will provide the caps, he only charge for the labor. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can someone tell me what values of those caps? I already pack the amp and tubes.


----------



## tosehee

Shouldn't you ask Jack about those cap values?

 Also, if you are making those mods, does it void the warranty or ?

 I'm interested in seeing the upgrade, but the above question kinda bothers me.

 Did you confirm that with Jack?


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shouldn't you ask Jack about those cap values?

 Also, if you are making those mods, does it void the warranty or ?

 I'm interested in seeing the upgrade, but the above question kinda bothers me.

 Did you confirm that with Jack?_

 

I emailed Jack about this, no reply so far (2days). Woo Amps are very solid built products. If there is nothing worng within 1st two months, more likely it will be trouble free for many years. I am pretty sure what I am about to do is going to void warranty. But what the hell, I am already felt sorry for my wallet, take a step further is not going to hurt much more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At $1900 USD, WA22 is sure bargan. After took look inside the amp, I see a lot of room for improvment for less than $1000 total. This idea popped up in my head after Seattle mini meet. Big Proppa's Woo 3+ had blackgates, which took the amp a few notches up. Blackgates are rated 2.5~3 out 5 point scale, that made me wordering what if I drop 4.5 star rating caps in the amp for only a few hundred bucks more? Hummmm.......


----------



## BIG POPPA

Dude, blackgates are burning mighty fine. With the Bendix and the GEC tubes it is mighty fine. You will have to come to the meet to hear the huge improvements. Really glad to get the Blackgates.


----------



## Seamaster

Those Nichicon and Rubycom caps are bothering me to death. I really wish Woo Audio offered cap upgrade from start.

 Please don't get me worng, WA22 sounds super good as it is. 

 Both Nichicon and Rubycom are huge companies. For those caps, I am feeling like using BOSE Tripot in terms of headphone. I want T1 caps in my amp in terms of headphone!

 Speak of blackgates, I feel they are some where between HD600~HD650 in terms of headphone. More towards to HD650. They were legend for many years untill now new caps with new tech are knocking them off the stage.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Jack will accommodate most wishes. You just have to ask before hand. I traded a least a dozen emails before any deal was done.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jax 
 Seamaster - I've never been to a 'meet' before and really don't even know what one is (have a vague idea). Dan's a personal friend and I do most of his photography and graphic design, and advertising for him. If he goes I may be coming down from Seattle as I don't get to see him that often during the year, and I always enjoy seeing him - he's a great guy. If I do I'll bring a pair of GS1000's for you to listen to. Sorry, they're not the i's but they still sound wonderful to my ears and with my preferences in music. It will really depend on how that month shapes up for me. I'm currently recovering from a foot surgery and on one leg (sounds like you are hopping as well). I should be bipedal by mid-February. 

 Regarding the recap - Don't forget those new caps are going to need some burn-in time before they settle in. Check with Dan - he's familiar with his own, but he may also be able to suggest what burn-in on the Mundorfs might be like. If you are doing a complete recap I'd bet you were looking at 200-300 hours of burn-in, but ask Dan for a more accurate estimate. BTW - you could not be in better hands or have better ears on your side than Dan's. I've been after him to put his hat in the headphone ring for a while. I think he's getting there. If and when he does, you can be sure it will be a significant contribution. I started using his stuff back when he first came out with the prototype preamp.I've owned a few of his modified players...all great stuff. He's really come a long way since then...I think that's about ten years ago. My system (speakers - sorry to say I prefer them to cans - am I banished?) is mostly Modwright now. I'm loving it - in over 30 years in this hobby it's definitely of the top two favorite states of my main system (which has changed a few times over that period)...actually it eeks out the SET system in terms of versatility and takes top honors for me. If only I could get my room to cooperate now...OK now there's one place where cans redeem themselves (among several). Phew, saved my sorry ass from a bunch of angry head-fiers! Seriously, I've been enjoying the heck out of my headphone system since being confined with this foot thing. 

 Today I drove 120 miles (eachway) to visit Dan's shop, and drop off my amp, alone with HD650, few cables and tubes. Man, I did not expect that far away in to the woods, out of nowhere in a little town have such high end audio work shop/brand. I got lost in the 1st place and asked local people, where his shop is, they just looked at me think I am talking alien from space. Dan showed me his reference system. I love the craftmanship of his KWA 150 Amplifier, the quality is eye popping. Pictures on his website DON'T do any justice! Since there was only very short listening, and one CD only. I can't speak for other parts. The main things noticed with my instinct were the level of transparency and tonal correctness. Those two things just slapped on my face. Also the system have great hight extension/air without lose density of music. At this point, well I just go ahead let Dan takes care my amp, it is in good hands. Also I am not fixed to use Mundorf Caps anymore. Dan is very nice person talk to, soft and humble. We talked about headphone market for long time, I think I convined him to jump on this band wagon, and making headphone amp. Idea so far is direct sale from his website without going through dealer, to reduce cost that way. My sugestion was one balanced reference level model priced between $2000~$3000 USD using best parts, and tech. One lower end model priced around $900 USD.

 Jax, thanks for the headphone. Yes I am hopping too, from 2nd sonwboard accident in 2 months. I twisted my ankle big time even with stiff snowboard boots. I tried to jump a ramp, landed sideway. My board and my body both had their own idea, and wanted to roll different directions. Sorry ankle!


----------



## TheAudioDude

That's great to hear, Seamaster. I'll be looking forward to hearing what you think about your upgraded WA22!

 I'm actually about ready to purchase the EML 5U4G mesh! I'll update on my opinions with it.

 BTW, I'm going snowboarding this weekend (first time I've ever gone for real, aside from going down small hills near my neighborhood when I was a kid). Let's hope I can avoid those damn trees!


----------



## tosehee

How much is the upgrade, Seamaster?

 My WA22 is finally shipping tomorrow, so I am hoping to get it this Friday (crossing fingers). I doubt I will do such upgrade right away, but it's something to keep in mind when I get tired of it.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much is the upgrade, Seamaster?

 My WA22 is finally shipping tomorrow, so I am hoping to get it this Friday (crossing fingers). I doubt I will do such upgrade right away, but it's something to keep in mind when I get tired of it. _

 

I will have to wait Dan to test the amp out frist, and tells me what's his opinion on he amp, and what options, parts, and mods needed. I already told his the mod can't be too expensive, and select parts very carefully. I will post our email exchange in public here. So you guys will also have ideas what's going on. But test will take time.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will have to wait Dan to test the amp out frist, and tells me what's his opinion on he amp, and what options, parts, and mods needed. I already told his the mod can't be too expensive, and select parts very carefully. I will post our email exchange in public here. So you guys will also have ideas what's going on. But test will take time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Awesome, Seamaster.

 I am very interested in this upgrade as well. If the price is within my range, I might dive in sooner than later..


----------



## Seamaster

Hi Griffin, I first of all want to really thank you for the opportunity to pursue this project for you. This is a REALLY GREAT amp and with the Senn's, sounds better than I have ever heard a headphone amp sound! I had my techs all listen and even the UPS guy and the unanimous reply was WOW!

 I have been listening to it off and on this week while I work, being fed via the Transporter, to get a feel for the stock sound of the unit. I intend to open it up before the end of the day and outline my intended upgrades and make a proposal for you.

 I am really excited about headphones now and not only want to pursue a mods offering for the Woo products, but will also want to both add headphone outs to our preamps AND design a headphone amp of our own at some point.

 I have to say that I don't know that I would prefer to STRICTLY listen to headphones, but they certainly have their place, and when it sounds THIS GOOD, it is an incredible way to enjoy music!

 Thanks, an update and proposal to follow later today.

 Sincerely,

 Dan W.

 President, ModWright Instruments Inc (MWI)
Modwright - Elegance. Simplicity. Truth. Great audio gear from the ground up, and first class modifications.
 1.360.247.6688


 The headphone he is using is my balanced HD650 with Equinox cable


----------



## Seamaster

They REALLY DO! It is quite an accomplishment and if you speak with the designer ever, please pass this along to him from me as a fellow designer. It is not difficult to engineer a functional circuit. Infusing the design with MUSIC and Soul is quite another thing.

 Thanks,

 Dan

 President, ModWright Instruments Inc (MWI)
Modwright - Elegance. Simplicity. Truth. Great audio gear from the ground up, and first class modifications.
 1.360.247.6688 





 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 From: GRIFFIN CUI 
 To: ModWright 
 Sent: Fri, January 22, 2010 1:29:21 PM
 Subject: RE: Woo Audio 22 headphone Amp Mod

 The best part of Woo Audio amp is, these amps have soul.


----------



## tosehee

That's a great endorsement. Good to be a WA22 owner..


----------



## Seamaster

Tubes used in the amp:

 EML 5U4G Mesh Plate
 National Union 6F8G round plate
 G.E.C 6AS7G brown cup base


----------



## Frihed89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those of you own WA22 now. What tubes have you been rolling? Too busy to listen your Amp or too lazy to post?

 All listening is done with only HD650 with Stefan AudioArt and Cardas Balanced cable .


 Round 5
 I ordered a pair of 6F8G/VT-99 adapters from ebay, a guy name Glenn. pictures is in the thread " Got my paws on WA22". They are very well made for the price at $40/pair. and you can chose cable color too. For those of you remember SiglePower Audio was charging people over $100 for adapters?
 Now pair of Raytheon in place of 6SN7. Turn on the amp let it warmed up for 5 min. Put on Headphone...... Holy crap! I jump out the chair. My amp is burnning! 

 No just kidding. The amp sounds so expansive with ton of air on top, while still tube sweet. the mid is very clear and engaging, soundfile has enlarge with all 3 dimensions The bass is very clean and powerful, when low bass note kicks in you feel your heart is pumping faster. Compare to 6F8G's Brimar are very tubey maybe good to pair with HD800 or something bright. then I put Sylvania 6SN7WGTA back in just to make sure, Sylvania just don't have the "impact" to music like 6F8G do. 
_

 

Last time I looked and bought these tubes were, what, $35/pair? And now they are ???, but still worth it. They are, indisputably, the best 6SN7GT I have heard in my SP rig as output tubes. I have also used them as drivers in preamps amps, with good success.


----------



## Seamaster

I got 3 pair of National Union 6F8G round plate at $60~$80 USD a pair. Still well worth every penny, consider they leave my $250 pair Brimar 6SN7GT in dust.


----------



## Seamaster

I am asking him if the amp has little more density and dynamic, transparency would be nice. 

 I haven't put together a scope or price yet as I am still working out the best places to upgrade. I did however, several days ago, install four of our .22uf TEF coupling caps to replace the Dayton caps that were stock. I have been running it 24/7 to break them in and decide if they are the sound that you want. I next intend to replace the grid-stop resistors with Riken Carbon Films. I would also like to bypass the power supply electrolytics with MWI film caps. I don't know that the voltage regulator circuit that I initially proposed will work for a number of reasons. There are a few other components that can be upgraded however.

 The DACT volume pot is excellent, as is the signal wiring. The signal path components benefit from being upgraded.

 I will quote you a final price


----------



## tosehee

Thx for update


----------



## Seamaster

Dan claims his own cap is better than Mundorf cap. He said Mundorf sound too warm. What do you guys think?


----------



## h.rav

^ Mundorf (silver/oil) sounds very dynamic, musical, not warm at all. IMHO, it's better than V-Cap. I'm curious about Modwright's cap, I might try it soon.


----------



## Seamaster

I know when he started his business and before he came up with his own cap. He was using AURICAP in all his mod job. So, his cap should be at least better than AURICAP, this is just my guess


----------



## Seamaster

Correction above: He been using Sonicap.

 I found some reviews:
http://www.10audio.com/sonicap_oimp_multicap.htm


----------



## tosehee

EML 5u4g mesh is coming on its way. I will update with some impressions along with short comparison with Phoenix once properly burned-in.


----------



## Seamaster

Nice, I have EML 5U4G soild plate comming. Those EML tubes need very long time to bring out the bass. Still little shy for me. Because I listen to hard rock too. Other than that they sound very good out of box.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice, I have EML 5U4G soild plate comming. Those EML tubes need very long time to bring out the bass. Still little shy for me. Because I listen to hard rock too. Other than that they sound very good out of box._

 

That's nice. You also got mesh right? I wonder how they compare..


----------



## Seamaster

I have EML mesh and solid is on its way, I also have Sophia 274B Princess mesh. I just got too lazy to review tubes and busy to mod my amp.


----------



## ygm

Continuing to roll tubes. 

 * GE 6SN7GTA are head and shoulders above the GE 6SN7GTB which came with the amp. Much tighter bass and smoother highs. A downright bargain at $6 a pop. Interestingly enough construction looks very similar if not identical.

 * Chatham 5998 - very punchy sound. Love the bass, however, the rest of the spectrum sounds a little forced|congested|thick. There is also less air than with the RCA 6AS7G grey plates. The RCAs sound almost elegant in comparison. Jury is still out - I may go back to the RCAs.

*Seamaster - you may want to try the 5998s - they probably have the impact you're looking for.*


----------



## tosehee

My EML 5u4g arrived and on the WA22 for burn-in.

 On the sneak peek, the bass is tighter and stronger. Slightly wider on the soundstage as well.

 More to report later.


----------



## ygm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My EML 5u4g arrived and on the WA22 for burn-in.

 On the sneak peek, the bass is tighter and stronger. Slightly wider on the soundstage as well.

 More to report later._

 

Are you comparing the EML to the stock rectifier (Sovtek)?


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you comparing the EML to the stock rectifier (Sovtek)?_

 

Yes.


----------



## Seamaster

I never had any of those stock tubes. My amp came as bare bone as I knew stock tubes are heading to the trash can anyway.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I never had any of those stock tubes. My amp came as bare bone as I knew stock tubes are heading to the trash can anyway._

 

I use those tubes for amp burn-in.


----------



## ygm

A Shuguang/VA 274B vs EML would also be an interesting comparison. I've read somewhere that the Shuguang is as good as the Sophia.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A Shuguang/VA 274B vs EML would also be an interesting comparison. I've read somewhere that the Shuguang is as good as the Sophia._

 

It was here, and it was direct impression from one of the gentleman who also happens to own WA22. I am interested as well in finding that, but that would be my future agenda.


----------



## Seamaster

Here is a ture story that really funny.

 I emailed EML:

 "Please tell me how different in sound and signature between your 5U4G mesh plate, 5U4G solid plate, and 274B mesh plate......? Because they look drfferent in your website picture......Thank for the help......"

 EML replied

 "We are very sorry are not able to help you...... We only make tubes...... don't know what the difference in sound between those tubes......"

 (What......really......?? in my head)

 "We have began to reduce the size of the glass, inside are all the same. 274B is one of the earlist to start with"


----------



## tosehee

Let me tell you.. I thought WA22 wasn't too great at first listen. I hold my impression until at least 50+ hours.

 Now, the sound seems to stabilize whole lot, and it mimics the sound that I remembered. I can truly say that I am enjoying the music like never before.. (at least with headphone). HD800 seems to match up well with WA22..

 For those who know, i was going to sell WA22 + HD800 if it didn't match up well, and spend more on analog gears. Thanks to Jack that dilemma is now gone.. 

 To MY ear, WA22 > Phoenix for pure musicality. Phoenix is more transparent, but edgy and harsh to listen to. It's a great amp to observe the music, but not to enjoy.

 WA22 is more forgiving of the poor records also. Oh, did I mention that with WA22, the HD800 really disappears and it's all you and the musics? 

 EML 5u4g is great tube.. Very solid bass, good extension, very nice resolution and soundstage. Sylvania 7236 is on order. So, i will update with more info.

 Currently have Mazda + EML with RCA 6080.


----------



## h.rav

^ You might want to try Tung-Sol 5998. IMHO, it is the best power tube, better than 7236 by a large margin. Sylvania 7236 sounds thin and dull if compared with the 5998. Any 5998 is made by Tung-Sol.


----------



## tosehee

h.rav. 

 Are you the one who shared the impression about Shuguang 274B bettering the Sophia?

 BTW, is this T-S?

http://thetubestore.com/nos-5998.html


----------



## h.rav

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_h.rav. 

 Are you the one who shared the impression about Shuguang 274B bettering the Sophia?_

 

No


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, is this T-S?

5998A_

 

No, i believe 5998A is made by GE.

 5998 is getting rare to find and expensive.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No




 No, i believe 5998A is made by GE.

 5998 is getting rare to find and expensive._

 

Cool.

 Thanks for info. Almost wasted $$ on 5998A.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_* Chatham 5998 - very punchy sound. Love the bass, however, the rest of the spectrum sounds a little forced|congested|thick. There is also less air than with the RCA 6AS7G grey plates. The RCAs sound almost elegant in comparison. Jury is still out - I may go back to the RCAs.

*Seamaster - you may want to try the 5998s - they probably have the impact you're looking for.*_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_5998 is getting rare to find and expensive._

 

Yes those are the reasons I did not try 5998. Yes I may got the bass I want with 5998, but lost other good quality of the sound. I had too many RCAs, they are no where near as good as GEC.

 Thanks for sharing guys


----------



## tosehee

5998 isn't as rare as it said to be.. Most can be bought for less than $50.

 GEC, on the other hand, is truly rare and equally expensive.. 

 RCA 6AS7G is also almost as good TS 5998, and usually cheaper (usually 1/2 cost of 5998).

 I got Syl 7236 coming, and I am currently bidding on 6AS7G and TS 5998 also.


----------



## h.rav

^ Where can you get a matched pair for $50?

 have you tried 5998 before?


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Where can you get a matched pair for $50?

 have you tried 5998 before?_

 

5998 tube, Electronics. Great deals on eBay!

 $50 was meant for a single tube, not a pair, BTW.

 Also, I haven't tried 5998 myself. It was a reference from Skylab.

Tubes Asylum - 6AS7G tube types explained... - Skylab - June 06, 2009 at 18:45:30

  Quote:


 There is also the 5998 tube, made only by Tung-Sol regardless of branding, which does have different operating characteristics, and may or may not work in any given 6AS7G application, although it does in the amps I have, snd sounds a little better than most 6AS7G's. In general the 5998 offers slightly more neutral sound, slightly better transparency, and are less likely to be noisy. They are approximately 2-3x the price, generally, and I have seen some idiots paying $50 per tube on Ebay when you can buy them NOS from reputable online tube-sellers for $25 each. Still, this is more than double the 6AS7G price.


----------



## h.rav

^ Thanks for the link. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But you would need a matched pair for the WA22.
 Don't buy them from supra_buyer, it's Single Power (Mikhail Rotenberg)!


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Thanks for the link. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But you would need a matched pair for the WA22.
 Don't buy them from supra_buyer, it's Single Power (Mikhail Rotenberg)!_

 

Most are rated within the 'matched' range.. But, yeah, thanks for letting me know about "ikhail" #*@#>.


----------



## Seamaster

I hate that guy with passion


----------



## ygm

Slowly going up the 6SN7 chain.

 The Sylvania GTA have a more immediate presentation with extended highs. GE GTAs are much smoother ... to their detriment. 

 What can I say - I like it rough. =)

 The Sylvania GTA seem to be a better match for the 5998s as well.

 Sylvania GT are next.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Slowly going up the 6SN7 chain.

 The Sylvania GTA have a more immediate presentation with extended highs. GE GTAs are much smoother ... to their detriment. 

 What can I say - I like it rough. =)

 The Sylvania GTA seem to be a better match for the 5998s as well.

 Sylvania GT are next._

 

Have you tried Ken Rad VT-231? Clear glass and smoke glass sound the same. They are very exciting tubes.


----------



## ygm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have you tried Ken Rad VT-231? Clear glass and smoke glass sound the same. They are very exciting tubes._

 

Not yet - I've got the following waiting to be rolled:

 Sylvania GT
 Tung-Sol GT "Mouse Ears"
 Raytheon VT-231 (2 sets of different types of plate)
 Sylvania "Bad Boys" 

 At this point I've exhaused my tube funds, however, supposedly Raytheons sound similar to Ken Rad.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not yet - I've got:

 Sylvania GT
 Tung-Sol GT (Mouse Ears)
 Raytheon VT-231
 Sylvania "Bad Boys" 

 waiting in the wings. Supposedly Raytheons sound similar to Ken Rad._

 

Ken-rad that are made in 1940 and 1941s are hard to come by, and it is in smoke glass. It should have a better sounding than later clear glass type. But it 's also known to have some phonics..

 BTW, what do you like from the list above? Let me guess, TS?


----------



## ygm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ken-rad that are made in 1940 and 1941s are hard to come by, and it is in smoke glass. It should have a better sounding than later clear glass type. But it 's also known to have some phonics.._

 

and prohibitively expensive to boot.

  Quote:


 BTW, what do you like from the list above? Let me guess, TS? 
 

I havn't rolled any of those yet. I'll do them in order from first to last.


----------



## tosehee

I was able to score one pair of TS 5998, thanks largely to Skylab!

 Thanks again, Skylab.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Well my WA22 is in for a treat! I just sent the payment for an EML 5U4G Mesh, and yesterday I bought a pair of Tung Sol 6F8Gs from eBay. I'll let everyone know my initial impressions.


----------



## tosehee

TS 5998 just arrived.

 First impression. Quite stronger than RCA 6080. Can't listen to the same volume as before.. 

 As for music, it hits deeper, stronger, wider, and with more impact in every notes.

 Very nice upgrade.. I seem to favor this over Syl 7236.

 Thanks again to Skylab for selling one of his great TS for me.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well my WA22 is in for a treat! I just sent the payment for an EML 5U4G Mesh, and yesterday I bought a pair of Tung Sol 6F8Gs from eBay. I'll let everyone know my initial impressions.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Are you the one snatched the "round plate" pair? I looked really hard on that pair......can't see where is the round plate......
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TS 5998 just arrived.

 First impression. Quite stronger than RCA 6080. Can't listen to the same volume as before.. 

 As for music, it hits deeper, stronger, wider, and with more impact in every notes.

 Very nice upgrade.. I seem to favor this over Syl 7236.

 Thanks again to Skylab for selling one of his great TS for me. _

 

great news for 5998 tosehee, you also should look for GEC 6AS7G

 I got 7N7 adapters and GE tubes from Glenn to test out.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you the one snatched the "round plate" pair? I looked really hard on that pair......can't see where is the round plate......_

 

The Ken Rads? Nope, it wasn't me. Someone outbid me by $1 (they sold for ~$27 I think) and when I went to counter-bid, I missed it by about 3 seconds! But yeah, the plate didn't look round to me either. Oh well, I'm sure I'll be happy with my Tung-Sols.


----------



## tosehee

I've been eying GEC, but can't find it.. 

 One of my buddy here owns 2 pair, but he refuses to sell it.. 

 Oh well


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been eying GEC, but can't find it.. 

 One of my buddy here owns 2 pair, but he refuses to sell it.. 

 Oh well_

 

You know there is reason behind it


----------



## BIG POPPA

Keep looking for the GEC, they do pop up from time to time. It took me 6 months to wait for a Bendix 6080WB. That was a wait.


----------



## tosehee

Well, I am not in rush. If it pops up somewhere, cool. I can try my luck. If not, TS 5998 is almost as great..


----------



## TheAudioDude

Which GEC is the best? I know I read it but I forgot. Was it GE?

 EDIT nvm. GEC is the brand... mind fart


----------



## ygm

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_TS 5998 just arrived.

 First impression. Quite stronger than RCA 6080. Can't listen to the same volume as before.. 

 As for music, it hits deeper, stronger, wider, and with more impact in every notes.

 Very nice upgrade.. I seem to favor this over Syl 7236._

 

Could you describe the differences in sonics between the 5998 and 7236?

 I have a chance to pick up a *quad *of matched Tung Sol 7236 or a *pair *of Tung Sol 5998 for the same price.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Which GEC is the best? I know I read it but I forgot. Was it GE?

 EDIT nvm. GEC is the brand... mind fart_

 



 There is GEC 6080 and GEC 6AS7G.

 The latter is better by a small margin. Both are equally hard to get.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ygm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you describe the differences in sonics between the 5998 and 7236?

 I have a chance to pick up a *quad *of matched Tung Sol 7236 or a *pair *of Tung Sol 5998 for the same price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

From what I know, 7236 and 5998 are pretty much same design and etc.

 7236 is a latter design of 5998. 5998 is made only by TS, and sold to WE as 421A which costs like a #*#@.

 Not all models sound the same... So, in short, you are buying the Tung Sol brand of 7236 instead of Sylvania. 

 The sound signature is similar along with the output power.


----------



## tosehee

Oh, if you buy WE 421A, you are buying TS 5998 with re-branded WE label..

 And last time I checked, WE 421A is one rare tube which usually costs $200+ per tube.. 

 Notice also that 5998A is NOT 5998. So, don't get confused. Any 5998 with other brand than TS are just re-branded, and all made by TS.


----------



## Double F

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, if you buy WE 421A, you are buying TS 5998 with re-branded WE label..

 And last time I checked, WE 421A is one rare tube which usually costs $200+ per tube.. 

 Notice also that 5998A is NOT 5998. So, don't get confused. Any 5998 with other brand than TS are just re-branded, and all made by TS._

 

I have 5998's labeled Chatham and IBM. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Other than the name and slightly different base colors they are exactly the same.


----------



## Skylab

That's becaise as Tosehee said, they are identical. Only Tung-Sol ever made the 5998. This is why people paying big $$$ for the WE421A are wasting their money.

 Although lately 5998's have been going up in price a lot, and the one big web tube seller that had stock is out (maybe these are related). 5998's on Ebay are now going for $50 each and up.


----------



## Double F

Skylab, is the tung-sol 6as7g and the chatham 6as7g both made by Tung-sol, thanks
 Frank


----------



## Skylab

I believe so. Tung-sol bought Chatham at one point. I'm not 100% certain that Chatham 6AS7G tubes that were sold before they were part of Tung-Sol were in fact Tung-Sols re-branded, but they sure LOOK that way. All of the JAN-Chatham 6AS7G's I have were from the period Chatham was owned by Tung-Sol, as were the Chatham-braded 5998's, which were definitely Tung-Sol made, as mentioned above.


----------



## TheAudioDude

My EML 5U4G just arrived! It was shipped yesterday... that was fast. Luckily I woke up from my nap 5 min before it came.

 I'll update later with impressions.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My EML 5U4G just arrived! It was shipped yesterday... that was fast. Luckily I woke up from my nap 5 min before it came.

 I'll update later with impressions._

 

Grats.


----------



## Seamaster

Congrats TheAudioDude. Do some impression and correct me if needed. EML 5U4G solid plate is here, but I don't have amp to test it out.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Man oh man this is a good upgrade. The tube is freaking huge too! I let the tube warm up for ~10 minutes before listening.

 Stock vs 5U4G
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






















 At first, I didn't notice much except for a more 'tubey' and warm sound. Also, I've always had a very small hum in my amp... as far as I can tell it has been reduced even further!
 EDIT: The small hum is still there. I think it's more of a power line issue than anything else.

 After listening to a few more songs, I can safely say the clarity has improved a lot. I can't say much for the soundstage yet, but I am noticing a slight increase in it. I'm definitely hearing more detail, but this does not come with any harshness. Eric Clapton's unplugged version of Layla is so nice. You can hear every amount of detail as he sings, plays the guitar, and you can even hear more voices singing (not just the backup vocalists).

 The sound is much smoother. I used to get a little bit of sibilance, but now it's a bit better. Everything has been cleaned up.

 Listening to Rush is a treat with this tube. Drums have more body to them; as do guitars. They are more the focus of the music now, as opposed to being hidden by the vocals. As a related note, the vocals aren't as up-front as they used to be, and I like that. I used to feel like they were dominating the music.

 I don't want to say the bass has decreased (I love my deep bass!) but it is different. I think it's more robust and refined. I put on Brain Damage by Pink Floyd, and in the beginning of the first chorus there is a very deep bass line. I swear it used to have more impact than what I'm hearing right now, but its still there and still sounds good.

 So far, so good. I'm enjoying the upgrade. I'll make updates as I put more hours on the tube. The only bad thing is the socket on my amp is misaligned. The EML symbol on the tube is facing to the right.

 BTW, I received my 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters today from glenn, and I should be getting my Tung Sol 6F8Gs fairly soon.


----------



## h.rav

You should have rotated the tube socket before you took those pics


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *h.rav* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You should have rotated the tube socket before you took those pics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha, it'll be my weekend project! Let's hope I don't rotate it the wrong way
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I noticed that it's not a very tight fight; it slid in pretty easily.


----------



## TheAudioDude

I received my Tung Sol 6F8Gs today and just had a quick listen. At first I turned the volume all the way up (no music playing of course) and heard a buzzing. I let the tubes settle for a few min and it has gone down a bit.

 To be honest I don't know what to think of the sound. I feel like the highs are more accentuated. I don't want to say it's slightly more harsh, but that's what comes to mind. I don't know... it doesn't bother me though. I'm definitely hearing more subtle detail in songs. Bass seems relatively unchanged. Same with midrange. I'll have to listen more tonight...

 BTW, the WA22 just looks so badass with the massive 5U4G and Tung Sols.


----------



## Seamaster

What do you have for rectifier and power tube with Tung Sol. The Raythron and NU never sound harsh. You may want give them 20 hours to come down. Also the adapter.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you have for rectifier and power tube with Tung Sol. The Raythron and NU never sound harsh. You may want give them 20 hours to come down. Also the adapter._

 

Yeah, I was thinking they need time to burn in. My rectifier is the EML 5U4G Mesh, and my power tubes are the stock GE 6080s.

 EDIT:
 Perhaps I'm wrong about the harshness. It's not harsh. I need to listen to a lot more music tonight. So much detail!


----------



## tosehee

Try the Power tube upgrade. Most significant upgrade for me.

 I also have EML for rec, and while it's definitely an upgrade, not as much as power tube.

 I strongly recommend TS 5998. Real treat.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try the Power tube upgrade. Most significant upgrade for me.

 I also have EML for rec, and while it's definitely an upgrade, not as much as power tube.

 I strongly recommend TS 5998. Real treat._

 

Are these the same as the 7236s?


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are these the same as the 7236s?_

 

Tung Sol version of 7236. Same output power. Simply great.

 6AS7G tubes are nice, but TS 5998 is really great..

 I also own Sylvania 7236, but I am not using it any more. Probably going to sell it or store on the garage.

 TS 5998 usually sells for $25- $50. Not too bad of price.

 All 5998 is TS rebranded to other maker. So, feel comfortable with buying any 5998 tubes. They are all TS.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Try to find a NOS pair of TS branded 5998 is crazy. Used ones not so hard.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Try to find a NOS pair of TS branded 5998 is crazy. Used ones not so hard._

 

There are two auction on ebay going on. I am bidding on both. If I win those, i will sell pair to fellow WA22 owners at the price I paid for.


----------



## tosehee

BTW, anyone heard of CTech Electronics?

 They are supposedly making re-branded Tung Sung 6SN7 GTB. Just wondering if anyone used in the past and if you did, how you like it..


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 EDIT:
 Perhaps I'm wrong about the harshness. It's not harsh. I need to listen to a lot more music tonight. So much detail!_

 

If the Tung-Sol 6F8G's you got are the black-glass round-plate, the magic of that tube, IMO, is that it had such great detail without being harsh, and while still having serious tube midrange magic.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I was thinking they need time to burn in. My rectifier is the EML 5U4G Mesh, and my power tubes are the stock GE 6080s.

 EDIT:
 Perhaps I'm wrong about the harshness. It's not harsh. I need to listen to a lot more music tonight. So much detail!_

 

According to your tube set-up, if there is ever harshness, try to replace the GE, find a pair GEC 6080 to start with.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the Tung-Sol 6F8G's you got are the black-glass round-plate, the magic of that tube, IMO, is that it had such great detail without being harsh, and while still having serious tube midrange magic._

 

Even just regular Tung-Sol 6F8G, SQ should be plenty good. Good luck to find any round plate 6F8Gs these days.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are two auction on ebay going on. I am bidding on both. If I win those, i will sell pair to fellow WA22 owners at the price I paid for._

 

Can I reserve a pair now?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If the Tung-Sol 6F8G's you got are the black-glass round-plate, the magic of that tube, IMO, is that it had such great detail without being harsh, and while still having serious tube midrange magic._

 

Yep, they are black glass but are not round plate. Time flew by and before I knew it, it was 1A.M. when I stopped listening to music. I'm really liking these tubes.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_According to your tube set-up, if there is ever harshness, try to replace the GE, find a pair GEC 6080 to start with.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It's impossible to find a pair of GEC 6080s. I'm going to try a pair of Tung Sol 5998/7236s, since they're at least somewhat easier to find.

 BTW I made a mistake, my power tubes are the GE *6AS7GA*, not 6080.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It's impossible to find a pair of GEC 6080s. I'm going to try a pair of Tung Sol 5998/7236s, since they're at least somewhat easier to find.

 BTW I made a mistake, my power tubes are the GE *6AS7GA*, not 6080._

 

There is alot of three UK made Philips CV2984 on ebay now. CV2984 is UK military version of 6080. They should meet your need before you get a pair GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There is alot of three UK made Philips CV2984 on ebay now. CV2984 is UK military version of 6080. They should meet your need before you get a pair GEC 6AS7G._

 

Yeah, I saw those. I may pick up a pair to hold me over until I can get GEC or Tung Sol. I'm seeing a lot of Svetlana 6N13S tubes (6AS7G); any opinions on those?

 Thanks for posting the eBay link for the NU round plates. I'll be keeping an eye on the auction.


----------



## Clayton SF

Has anyone had any luck with rolling 7N7 loctals in place of 6SN7? I used to see some mention of them and WA22 but not lately.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I'm seeing a lot of Svetlana 6N13S tubes (6AS7G_

 

I had alot (still ahve some) of russain tubes, they do sound, but never good, not refined, and quite harsh. Do not wast money on those.


----------



## BIG POPPA

You need an adapter to use those.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anyone had any luck with rolling 7N7 loctals in place of 6SN7? I used to see some mention of them and WA22 but not lately. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You are luky I will have answer to this soon. Glenn sent me a pair of 7N7 adapters alone with tubes to try. I will report back as soon as I have my WA22. "they sound unique" Glenn told me. I aslo sent him my Sophia to try, he loves it in his preamp.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You need an adapter to use those._

 

I know. You also need an adapter to use those 2 National Union 6F8G Tubes-Sim 6SN7GT-Roundplates that Seamaster gave us a heads-up on. Boy to think those tubes were out of my vocabulary a few months ago and they were probably really cheap a year ago. I wonder what the next golden-voice "6SN7" will be?


----------



## Seamaster

Two more tubes will work with WA22:
 6GU7 same as 6CG7/6FQ7
 6C8G (look like 6F8G but sound different, may not be better)


----------



## Seamaster

WA22 owner take note:

 When you order adapters, ask for the grid wires exit out the adapters base in symmetrical manner. Tell him: just like Griffin's amp. Glenn knows what to do. I just ordered new pair of 6F8G adapter with single crystal sliver wires and Mundorf sliver/gold solder, of course the grid wires exit out the adapters base in symmetrical manner this time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This will keep the left wire away from rectifier.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are luky I will have answer to this soon. Glenn sent me a pair of 7N7 adapters alone with tubes to try. I will report back as soon as I have my WA22. "they sound unique" Glenn told me. I aslo sent him my Sophia to try, he loves it in his preamp.




_

 

Clear photo shot. It looks like silver sockets. Unusual looking. And the 7N7 bases look heavy-duty. Can't wait for you to try them out. What kind of preamp is Glenn using your Sophia in?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WA22 owner take note:

 When you order adapters, ask for the grid wires exit out the adapters base in symmetrical manner. Tell him: just like Griffin's amp. Glenn knows what to do. I just ordered new pair of 6F8G adapter with single crystal sliver wires and Mundorf siver/gold solder, of course the grid wires exit out the adapters base in symmetrical manner this time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This will keep the left wire away from rectifier._

 

Yeah, when I messaged Glenn he had already shipped my order. Today I am going to turn the tube sockets in my WA22 so it looks more symmetrical.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Clear photo shot. It looks like silver sockets. Unusual looking. And the 7N7 bases look heavy-duty. Can't wait for you to try them out. What kind of preamp is Glenn using your Sophia in?_

 

I don't know what other 7N7 adapters looks like, as these adapters are Glenn's personal pair.

 They fit nice and tight, have positive click when I plug in tubes.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_WA22 owner take note:

 When you order adapters, ask for the grid wires exit out the adapters base in symmetrical manner. Tell him: just like Griffin's amp. Glenn knows what to do. I just ordered new pair of 6F8G adapter *with single crystal sliver wires and Mundorf sliver/gold solder, *of course the grid wires exit out the adapters base in symmetrical manner this time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This will keep the left wire away from rectifier._

 

How much are the adapters with with single crystal silver wires and Mundorf silver/gold solder? And is it a big difference in SQ compared to his standard adapters?


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I know. You also need an adapter to use those 2 National Union 6F8G Tubes-Sim 6SN7GT-Roundplates that Seamaster gave us a heads-up on. Boy to think those tubes were out of my vocabulary a few months ago and they were probably really cheap a year ago._

 

About a year ago I bought NOS Tung-Sol black-glass round-plate 6F8G's for $20 a PAIR. But word got out...


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How much are the adapters with with single crystal silver wires and Mundorf silver/gold solder? And is it a big difference in SQ compared to his standard adapters?_

 

I could not tell you right now, because my WA22 is still with Modwright. I did a lot of research with hook-up wires, as Nanotech soild core single crystal silver wires or copper offer best performance within good price. I chose 20 AWG instead 18 AWG that Glenn sugested, when I pick up the silver, because I don't want to lose the body and density in tone. Silver tend to sound thin compare to copper. So I added Mundorf solder instead regular silver solder for further soomthing out the sound of silver wire.

 I bought those supplies myself and sent to Glenn. you need 1.25~1.5 feet of wire for one pair of adapters, that not includes grid wire. the grid wire can not be soild core, must be stranded wire.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About a year ago I bought NOS Tung-Sol black-glass round-plate 6F8G's for $20 a PAIR. But word got out..._

 

Lucky you. Try $120 + today!


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_About a year ago I bought NOS Tung-Sol black-glass round-plate 6F8G's for $20 a PAIR. But word got out..._

 






 Is there no end to this incessant tube rolling? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will I be forever chained to my WA22 and its tube habit--or is it my tube habit? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm having fun, though.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Lucky you. Try $120 + today!_

 

Too bad I only bought 2 pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Is there no end to this incessant tube rolling? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will I be forever chained to my WA22 and its tube habit--or is it my tube habit? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm having fun, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Tube rolling is addicting...but it's great fun


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Is there no end to this incessant tube rolling? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will I be forever chained to my WA22 and its tube habit--or is it my tube habit? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm having fun, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It is only money


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Too bad I only bought 2 pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Tube rolling is addicting...but it's great fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've often reminded more than not of NOS tubes commanding 10x more than they were worth a year or two ago after their obvious benefits were unveiled to the general public at large! So I wonder what the current $20 pair-of-the-moment is (that will surely cost $200 in a year or two). I bet no one is talking (except maybe for a PM or two here or there, right Seamaster?). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 FUN FUN!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've often reminded more than not of NOS tubes commanding 10x more than they were worth a year or two ago after their obvious benefits were unveiled to the general public at large! So I wonder what the current $20 pair-of-the-moment is (that will surely cost $200 in a year or two). I bet no one is talking (except maybe for a PM or two here or there, right Seamaster?). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 FUN FUN!_

 

There were people long time ago before me started this 6F8G crap already. When I caught up, the market price already went to S**t 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got mine at "bargain price" at $80 a pair for round plate.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There were people long time ago before me started this 6F8G crap already. When I caught up, the market price already went to S**t 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got mine at "bargain price" at $80 a pair for round plate._

 

I see--so what do you have to say about these 6GU7; it's the first I've heard any mention of them.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Two more tubes will work with WA22:
 6GU7 same as 6CG7/6FQ7
 6C8G (look like 6F8G but sound different, may not be better)_

 

Do I use the 6CG7/6FQ7 > 6SN7 adapter with the 6GU7? And have you heard any good 6GU7? Oh boy, more tubes.


----------



## TheAudioDude

I won the auction for the four NOS Tung Sol 7236s. I didn't think I would win but I'll definitely sell a pair to a lucky Head-Fi member once I get them.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I won the auction for the four NOS Tung Sol 7236s. I didn't think I would win but I'll definitely sell a pair to a lucky Head-Fi member once I get them.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Contact with tosehee, make sure you two don't bid on each other to death.


----------



## Clayton SF

Would you spend $$$ on NOS Mullard GZ34 or the like or spend about the same $$$ on current production tubes like the Sophia, etc. I know they're different but if you wanted to save up for a nice tube which would you spring for--NOS or current production? Thanks!


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Would you spend $$$ on NOS Mullard GZ34 or the like or spend about the same $$$ on current production tubes like the Sophia, etc. I know they're different but if you wanted to save up for a nice tube which would you spring for--NOS or current production? Thanks!_

 

What kind music do you listen to? What headphone do you mainly use?


----------



## Seamaster

Today from Dan:

 The mod is coming along well and I feel that the MWI cpacitors are now broken in and the result is FANTASTIC. The grid-stop resistors (Riken Carbon film) go in today and I will order the remaining electrolytic capacitors for the power supply. It will be done and burned in, in time for the meet.


 I have not had a chance to either evaluate the Wu as a preamp or my preamp as a headphone amp, but I will at least try to evaluate your Wu as a preamp today and report.


 Thanks!


 Dan

 President, ModWright Instruments Inc (MWI)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What kind music do you listen to? What headphone do you mainly use?_

 

I love all kinds of music but gravitate between two worlds: Extremely dynamic symphony orchestras--big sound:  give the first cut a listen--it's sonically WILD! Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances; to technical studio recordings like Grizzly Bear, Pink Floyd, David Byrne (w/Brian Eno, "My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts). Ah, yes, and then there is jazz. Cool jazz. Like early Miles Davis, and current artist Michel Camilo (thanks to atbglenn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). The headphones I primarily use are the HD650 but often use the K701
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as well (which are better suited, at least to my ears, for acoustic guitar works whether it be folk, flamenco, gypsy, or classical).


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Today from Dan: The mod is coming along well and I feel that the MWI cpacitors are now broken in and the result is FANTASTIC. The grid-stop resistors (Riken Carbon film) go in today and I will order the remaining electrolytic capacitors for the power supply. It will be done and burned in, in time for the meet.

 I have not had a chance to either evaluate the Wu as a preamp or my preamp as a headphone amp, but I will at least try to evaluate your Wu as a preamp today and report.

 Thanks!

 Dan
 President, ModWright Instruments Inc (MWI)_

 

Wow. Consider yourself very fortunate. Not very many of us will be able to experience your new Woo. I wish I could make it up there to Seattle to be part of that meet.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I love all kinds of music but gravitate between two worlds: Extremely dynamic symphony orchestras--big sound:  give the first cut a listen--it's sonically WILD! Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances; to technical studio recordings like Grizzly Bear, Pink Floyd, David Byrne (w/Brian Eno, "My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts). Ah, yes, and then there is jazz. Cool jazz. Like early Miles Davis, and current artist Michel Camilo (thanks to atbglenn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). The headphones I primarily use are the HD650 but often use the K701
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as well (which are better suited, at least to my ears, for acoustic guitar works whether it be folk, flamenco, gypsy, or classical)._

 

So, no hard rock and punk. For your tast EML is better choice than Sophia. Sophia may make K701 sound too sharp. EML is all around good perfermer.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, no hard rock and punk. For your tast EML is better choice than Sophia. Sophia may make K701 sound too sharp. EML is all around good perfermer._

 

+1 for EML. It's great with the more 'laid-back' type of rock. It's even good with stuff like Rush. The sound I get is great with the tubes I have now: EML 5U4G Mesh, Tung Sol 6F8Gs, stock GE 6AS7GAs... but I did EQ 5kHz and 7kHz down 2dB, which takes the edge off of voices in certain songs.

 The only bad thing about the EML is it's not facing forward! I'll have to re-align my tube socket once my fingers heal.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_+1 for EML. It's great with the more 'laid-back' type of rock. It's even good with stuff like Rush. The sound I get is great with the tubes I have now: EML 5U4G Mesh, Tung Sol 6F8Gs, stock GE 6AS7GAs... but I did EQ 5kHz and 7kHz down 2dB, which takes the edge off of voices in certain songs.

 The only bad thing about the EML is it's not facing forward! I'll have to re-align my tube socket once my fingers heal.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Why isn't the WA22 socket aligned to show off the tube in the first place? I know it's entirely a cosmetic call but don't you think it may be a design issue as well? I know nothing about amp design so it's just a wild guess on my part.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why isn't the WA22 socket aligned to show off the tube in the first place? I know it's entirely a cosmetic call but don't you think it may be a design issue as well? I know nothing about amp design so it's just a wild guess on my part._

 

Jack is the one to blame 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe all sockets are points to one direction looked nice and neat wihout tubes. Or maybe the wiring. Personally I don't really care.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Jack is the one to blame 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe all sockets are points to one direction looked nice and neat wihout tubes. Or maybe the wiring. Personally I don't really care. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is it true that you can ask Jack to position the sockets so that the tubes can exhibit its logo front and center? I also have some tubes from the same manufacturer that are inconsistent as to where they place their logo. I guess the more top-drawer tubes always have their logos placed at the same spot.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it true that you can ask Jack to position the sockets so that the tubes can exhibit its logo front and center? I also have some tubes from the same manufacturer that are inconsistent as to where they place their logo. I guess the more top-drawer tubes always have their logos placed at the same spot._

 

Yes, you could ask jack. Someone has Woo6 done that. To be honest, I never look into the positioning of the logo. Maybe I should


----------



## tosehee

Sad news. I didn't win any of TS 5998 tube auction.. Someone outbid me by a few dollars. Sigh..


----------



## Skylab

5998's are getting much harder to get, all of the sudden...


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_5998's are getting much harder to get, all of the sudden..._

 

That seems to be the trend, for sure..


----------



## Seamaster

I will test that before I shut down for the night. What I did do tonight however, is completely diagram the circuit, so that I understand which components will benefit most from upgrades.

 I did replace the input stage grid-stop resistors with Japanese Riken carbon films. I also bypassed the cathode capacitors on those same input tubes, with 1uf MW oil-poly caps. This is a DIRECT audio signal path and while it is necessary to use an electrolytic there, given its size, using a smaller value high-quality cap like ours to bypass it, means that the higher frequencies will pass through our cap instead of the 'lytic, improving the sound.

 The carbon film resistors will make the sound has more body.

 I would also like to replace the plate resistors from the input stage with Tantalum or carbon films.

 All of the other electrolytic capacitors are purely in the power supply, only one exception. There are also cathode capacitors at the output tubes, that would benefit from the same MWI cap bypass.

 The Nichicon caps that are used in the power supply are good. It would be difficult to do better with electrolytics without using Black Gates and they are prohibitively expensive. I am more inclined to bypass the final PS decoupling cap at each circuit, with a high quality MW cap, for the same reason as mentioned before. It is always the last capacitor in the stage, before the load, that is most important.

 Please let me know your thoughts. I know that you wanted all of the 'lytics replaced, but they are not terrible and I don't know that there is necessarily a better cap (i.e. would yield real audible differences). I recapped the entire supply in my old Jolida P-P EL34 amp, amongst a NUMBER of other upgrades and while I didn't use Black Gates, I really didn't hear any difference. I got the BIGGEST improvement by replacing coupling caps (already have done so here), grid-stop resistors (also already done so here) and bypassing critical 'lytic capacitors with high-quality films. Plate resistors also made a nice difference. I will determine the value of these and get them ordered. In the meantime, I will continue to burn-in the most recent upgrades.

 Thanks!

 Dan

 President, ModWright Instruments Inc (MWI)


----------



## Seamaster

Me:
 will do Blackgates on my own (this) amp if their sound signature goes alone with mod. Thanks Dan.

 Dan reply: no dent on sound signature.

 Me:
 I know use blackgate in the power supply may not do any help to improve the sound, but I already went this far, what the hell...... Just about less than $100 extra


----------



## Seamaster

Me:
 Just please make sure the amp still maintain great voltage swing, and damping factor. Thanks.



 No problem!

 Dan

 President, ModWright Instruments Inc (MWI)


----------



## KingStyles

All that work and you arent going to have all the point to point wiring replaced also.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingStyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All that work and you arent going to have all the point to point wiring replaced also.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I have not lost my mind yet. I am trying to come up a package price that is good for everyone.


----------



## Seamaster

Wait now you mention it. I will ask Dan to rewire the signal path with Chinese rice noodle


----------



## KingStyles

Them going to be some fried rice noodles once those tubes heat up.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingStyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Them going to be some fried rice noodles once those tubes heat up._

 

All I need then are some to go boxes, and fortune cookie of the day.


----------



## KingStyles

Seriously, how about changing out the output transforners to partial silver cores. Im assuming it has transformers?


----------



## Seamaster

No, I rather not to go that way. If you touch the output transforners, that is going to be $1000~$2000 job. Too much for most people to swallow.


----------



## tosehee

Shh. This torture gotta stop~!


----------



## Seamaster

tosehee just like my wallet, crys like girl......


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_tosehee just like my wallet, crys like girl...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingStyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Them going to be some fried rice noodles once those tubes heat up._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_All I need then are some to go boxes, and fortune cookie of the day._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingStyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seriously, how about changing out the output transforners to partial silver cores. Im assuming it has transformers?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, I rather not to go that way. If you touch the output transforners, that is going to be $1000~$2000 job. *Too much for most people to swallow.*_

 

...easier to swallow fried rice noodles and a fortune cookie than the cost of output transformer mods. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I'm hungry. Woo Café.


----------



## tosehee

Sheesh. If you are gonna spend $2000 on transformer, might as well get a darn good one to start off with. That doesn't cost $2000.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sad news. I didn't win any of TS 5998 tube auction.. Someone outbid me by a few dollars. Sigh.._

 

I won the auction for the four TS 7236s. They're not here yet but I may be willing to sell a pair some time in the future.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, I just found this auction. It says 'as-is' but it may be worth a shot.

6 5998 / 6AS7WA Vacuum Tubes New Military - eBay (item 200440386265 end time Feb-19-10 17:48:54 PST)

 Also, there are a couple of new auctions for the Tung Sol 5998/7236s.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Just won a pair of NU 6F8G roundplates!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh man I'm excited. Sorry to anyone who missed out on them.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just won a pair of NU 6F8G roundplates!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Oh man I'm excited. Sorry to anyone who missed out on them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What the... So you were the one who outbid me...


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What the... So you were the one who outbid me... _

 

Indeed I was! I had my max bid at $80. It was pretty funny watching the last few seconds... the bids jumped up to $45, then $68 and it was all over!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I'm getting my TS 7236s today, I'll update later tonight with impressions.


----------



## Seamaster

Like I said you guys should have better communication all together. I was watching that auction too. But I was busy talking to my wife, and forgot about it. Lucky you. I am pretty sure you will enjoy this pair for long time.


----------



## tosehee

GEC 6SN7 on ebay...!!!

Rare Pair of New GEC B65 / 6SN7GT Valve Tubes in Box - eBay (item 180469649630 end time Feb-21-10 18:54:23 PST)

 Sigh..


----------



## Seamaster

$900 yeah right. I just bought a Springfiled XD-45 tactical 5", no money right now.


----------



## Skylab

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_GEC 6SN7 on ebay...!!!

Rare Pair of New GEC B65 / 6SN7GT Valve Tubes in Box - eBay (item 180469649630 end time Feb-21-10 18:54:23 PST)

 Sigh.._

 

The scuttlebutt on the B65 is that it has very weak bass. No clue why they sell for so much.


----------



## tosehee

GEC is great, but hard to try at that price range


----------



## tosehee

Btw, I score tung sol 6sn7gt from 1960s. Not the black glass 1940s, but I got it for $25 shipped. Can't complain too much~~


----------



## TheAudioDude

Well, first impressions of my TS 7236s...

 More power, that's for sure. I have to back down a few notches on the volume from my normal position. It's akin to going balanced.

 I'm hearing more air in my songs; the soundstage is a bit larger. Bass is hitting harder but very tight. Midrange is emphasized and highs are very extended, wayyy into the stratosphere with no harshness at all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sibilance is tamed, it doesn't seem as drawn-out and emphasized. I've removed the EQ for the time being. Very musical sounding, it almost sounds faster but it also lets you really hear the music at the same time. These are my #1 power tubes and I see no need to ever change them.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I need to stock up on these babies.

 I'm now able to listen to the remix of Pearl Jam's Black at high volumes without knives in my ears! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is a great combo: TS 7236, TS 6F8G, EML 5U4G. My only complaint is a buzzing, just when no music is playing. I first got the buzzing back when I put in my TS 6F8Gs, so today I'll roll my NU 6F8G RPs and see what happens.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT:

 Just put in my NU 6F8Gs. The sound is pretty much the same, but it's a bit smoother. More midrange and slightly more detail than the TS 6F8Gs. No harshness at all. Bass is still deep and tight. The buzzing I talked about earlier occurs at a higher volume. 

 I noticed that the tube I have on the right channel picks up any vibration incredibly easily. Tapping on the chassis, for example, is picked up by the tube. At first I thought there was a loud hum in the right channel, but then my refrigerator shut off and so did the hum! This tube is extremely sensitive... the one in my left channel is fine. Would a tube damper help?

 To be honest, from what I've heard so far, I'd be hard pressed to find a large difference between my TS 6F8Gs and my NU 6F8G RPs. Rolling the power tubes had a larger change.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, first impressions of my TS 7236s...

 More power, that's for sure. I have to back down a few notches on the volume from my normal position. It's akin to going balanced.

 I'm hearing more air in my songs; the soundstage is a bit larger. Bass is hitting harder but very tight. Midrange is emphasized and highs are very extended, wayyy into the stratosphere with no harshness at all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sibilance is tamed, it doesn't seem as drawn-out and emphasized. I've removed the EQ for the time being. Very musical sounding, it almost sounds faster but it also lets you really hear the music at the same time. These are my #1 power tubes and I see no need to ever change them.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 I need to stock up on these babies.

 I'm now able to listen to the remix of Pearl Jam's Black at high volumes without knives in my ears! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This is a great combo: TS 7236, TS 6F8G, EML 5U4G. My only complaint is a buzzing, just when no music is playing. I first got the buzzing back when I put in my TS 6F8Gs, so today I'll roll my NU 6F8G RPs and see what happens.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT:

 Just put in my NU 6F8Gs. The sound is pretty much the same, but it's a bit smoother. More midrange and slightly more detail than the TS 6F8Gs. No harshness at all. Bass is still deep and tight. The buzzing I talked about earlier occurs at a higher volume. 

 I noticed that the tube I have on the right channel picks up any vibration incredibly easily. Tapping on the chassis, for example, is picked up by the tube. At first I thought there was a loud hum in the right channel, but then my refrigerator shut off and so did the hum! This tube is extremely sensitive... the one in my left channel is fine. Would a tube damper help?

 To be honest, from what I've heard so far, I'd be hard pressed to find a large difference between my TS 6F8Gs and my NU 6F8G RPs. Rolling the power tubes had a larger change._

 

Wow, you've come a long way. Pretty high-end tubes you have there. How is your finger doing? Has it healed pretty well or is it also picking up vibrations like the tube on the right channel?


----------



## Seamaster

EDIT:

 Just put in my NU 6F8Gs. The sound is pretty much the same, but it's a bit smoother. More midrange and slightly more detail than the TS 6F8Gs. No harshness at all. Bass is still deep and tight. 

 What else do you want from already excellent TS 6F8G? IMHO


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, you've come a long way. Pretty high-end tubes you have there. How is your finger doing? Has it healed pretty well or is it also picking up vibrations like the tube on the right channel?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep, very nice tubes if I do say so myself. I updated my thread this weekend. I probably shouldn't go into the details here.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_EDIT:

 Just put in my NU 6F8Gs. The sound is pretty much the same, but it's a bit smoother. More midrange and slightly more detail than the TS 6F8Gs. No harshness at all. Bass is still deep and tight. 

 What else do you want from already excellent TS 6F8G? IMHO_

 

I've heard great things about the NUs! I was expecting more.


----------



## tosehee

Is your TS 6F8G smoke glass ?


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is your TS 6F8G smoke glass ?_

 

It has black glass.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It has black glass._

 

Cool find.

 Grats.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Cool find.

 Grats._

 

I got the pair for $26


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I got the pair for $26
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sheesh!

 I was bidding on auction and didn't win for a pair at $100. WTH. Lucky you.


----------



## tosehee

EML 5u4g + TS 6AS7G + TS 6SN7GT (Not A/B or the newer ones from Russia) combo is the really great..

 Easily better than Mazda combo for me.


----------



## Seamaster

I did listen briefly to the T1's also and they are fantastic. They are also very different than the Senn's.

 I believe that you will be very pleased with the results. Some of the parts will still require break-in, as the final upgrade - Mills plate resistors and BG caps were installed this week. The MWI coupling and cathode bypass caps as well as Riken carbon film grid-stop resistors were installed some time ago.

 Our capacitors still require 400+ hours to reach their full potential.

 Look forward to your listening impression of the final unit. I think it REALLY sounds good! The Mills plate resistor and BG cap upgrade were SIGNIFICANT, on top of the rest of the mods.



 Dan Wright

 President, ModWright Instruments Inc (MWI)

 Me:
 I send my T1 to him to try.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did listen briefly to the T1's also and they are fantastic. They are also very different than the Senn's.

 I believe that you will be very pleased with the results. Some of the parts will still require break-in, as the final upgrade - Mills plate resistors and BG caps were installed this week. The MWI coupling and cathode bypass caps as well as Riken carbon film grid-stop resistors were installed some time ago.

 Our capacitors still require 400+ hours to reach their full potential.

 Look forward to your listening impression of the final unit. I think it REALLY sounds good! The Mills plate resistor and BG cap upgrade were SIGNIFICANT, on top of the rest of the mods.



 Dan Wright

 President, ModWright Instruments Inc (MWI)

 Me:
 I send my T1 to him to try._

 

Has Dan discussed with you what Dan ModWright Instruments might charge for these mods if and when he offers them to other WA22 owners?


----------



## Seamaster

WA22 stock before Mod:










 WA22 ModWright:










 So far the amp still need long time burn-in. But as right now, sound GREAT! Knock out WA6SE at meet with ease.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 So far the amp still need long time burn-in. But as right now, sound GREAT! Knock out WA6SE at meet with ease._

 

That looks great man; he did a very clean job! I'm definitely looking forward to hearing your impressions as it burns-in. Does Dan sell those parts off-the-shelf? I'd probably like to get my WA22 modded at some point, but it would be fun to do it myself (and cheaper!)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, what's the asking price for the mod?


----------



## sillysally

Seamaster, looking good. Who is going to warranty your WA22, if its like the Oppo that Dan is modding he will only warranty his work and his mod voids Oppos warranty. 

 btw, is that WA6SE max and what tubes did it have in it?

 ss


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *TheAudioDude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That looks great man; he did a very clean job! I'm definitely looking forward to hearing your impressions as it burns-in. Does Dan sell those parts off-the-shelf? I'd probably like to get my WA22 modded at some point, but it would be fun to do it myself (and cheaper!)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, what's the asking price for the mod?_

 

For the Modwright house caps are off the shelf. He had to order other caps and parts. I will ask him more in detail. price wise it will be cheaper than his mod on other product. Less than $1000 for sure. The new parts still need to settle in, not super refined as now. But more effortlessly let music flow, sounds like the amp don't even breath hard to pump out music. I was already to sell my HD650. But waite, after mod, I might still keep them......

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sillysally* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Seamaster, looking good. Who is going to warranty your WA22, if its like the Oppo that Dan is modding he will only warranty his work and his mod voids Oppos warranty. 

 btw, is that WA6SE max and what tubes did it have in it?

 ss_

 

About warranty issue, I don't know. The amp is piont to point wiring, and not that hard for any good amp builder to figure it out.

 The WA6SE has GE tubes and Sophia Princess 274B, I am not sure if the amp had cap upgrade. But I will ask people at meet. 

 So far the amp sound little HOT on the top (maybe the power cable), only time will tell.

 By the way T1 sound beautifull with both WA6 and WA22. But I listen T1 at 3 O'clock at meet and 2 O'clock at home. Not too easy to drive.


----------



## tosehee

So, it's slightly under $1000 for a mod?

 It's quite tempting, but if I were to get my WA22 modded, I might as well sell my WA22 and get ZD balancing act.. It's getting very close to that price territory.

 Well, it's a good upgrade path I suppose..


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, it's slightly under $1000 for a mod?

 It's quite tempting, but if I were to get my WA22 modded, I might as well sell my WA22 and get ZD balancing act.. It's getting very close to that price territory.

 Well, it's a good upgrade path I suppose.._

 

You really need to listen them side by side to make the call. modded WA22 is very different from stock.

 Kingstyle will have his ZD BA soon. Let seen what happen at next meet.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You really need to listen them side by side to make the call. modded WA22 is very different from stock.

 Kingstyle will have his ZD BA soon. Let seen what happen at next meet._

 

True. I didn't listen to it, so i can't comment on it. I was referring to the price range where this things gets to.

 I already have several WE 300B (2 pairs) that I can use right away for BA if I go with 300B option, and $1000 mod seems to steer my direction toward selling my WA22 and get BA instead.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Man, that modded 22 is awesome. I have listened before and after the mod. To me it fixed some of the shortcomings of the amp.


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Man, that modded 22 is awesome. I have listened before and after the mod. To me it fixed some of the shortcomings of the amp._

 

Hrm... 

 Wish there is a way I can audition this darn mod..


----------



## BIG POPPA

The Seattle meets are where it's at to listen to this stuff.


----------



## Seamaster

So far the amp can handle dynamic and very busy music passage without bunch together. Vocal little on the bright side of my liking with T1 (Both need burn-in thought), with HD650 is right at home. Still effortlessly let music flow, sounds like the amp don't even breath hard to pump out music. Bass come out hitting harder with more clear definition. Music added little density. WA22 sound much much more open, you can pin point instruments easier than before. Soundfiled enlargement and effortlessness are the most noticeble change. I hope the vocal will come down and round off little bit after brun-in. Ofcourse I love warm sound, some one may just like it as it is.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ I hope the vocal will come down and round off little bit after brun-in. Ofcourse I love warm sound, some one may just like it as it is._

 

I mean the amp brings T1 sound closer to HD800 in vocal and still on warm side, but with great bass. Less bright than Grado by a lot. It will never sound like Audio Technica L3000 warm or ED8 warm. I never likes HD800 anyway. Just gave you guys a idea how "Bright " it is right now.

 The amp did clam down compare to when I just got it at meet.


----------



## TheAudioDude

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mean the amp brings T1 sound closer to HD800 in vocal and still on warm side, but with great bass. Less bright than Grado by a lot. It will never sound like Audio Technica L3000 warm or ED8 warm. I never likes HD800 anyway. Just gave you guys a idea how "Bright " it is right now.

 The amp did clam down compare to when I just got it at meet._

 

Try some Tung Sol 7236 power tubes. They did help to 'even-out' the bright vocals on my D7000s.

 Wow, who would have thought I'd be giving tube recommendations to Seamaster?


----------



## Seamaster

I run IsoTek Enhancement CD for 12 hours per day. Things are getting better faster with both WA22 and T1.


----------



## nautilus983

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 The WA6SE has GE tubes and Sophia Princess 274B, I am not sure if the amp had cap upgrade. But I will ask people at meet. _

 

In what way was the 22 better than the wa6se? I'm contemplating on getting either a 6se with upgraded parts or a stock wa 22, and don't know what I should get. The 22 and its tubes are more expensive, and so I'm hoping if a wa6se with upgraded parts could be able to match up with a stock wa 22...


----------



## tosehee

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nautilus983* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In what way was the 22 better than the wa6se? I'm contemplating on getting either a 6se with upgraded parts or a stock wa 22, and don't know what I should get. The 22 and its tubes are more expensive, and so I'm hoping if a wa6se with upgraded parts could be able to match up with a stock wa 22..._

 

I'd say the differences are minor, but:

 1. WA22 is balanced
 2. WA22 has twice or more of output power
 3. WA22 has a lot of room for upgrade.

 That's about what I can think of. In reality, if your source and headphone is not balanced, you would hear only a slight improvement over 6SE.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tosehee* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'd say the differences are minor, but:

 1. WA22 is balanced
 2. WA22 has twice or more of output power
 3. WA22 has a lot of room for upgrade.

 That's about what I can think of. In reality, if your source and headphone is not balanced, you would hear only a slight improvement over 6SE._

 

Totally agree. It is the balanced headphones you are after with WA22 (stock).


----------



## Seamaster

The price for my Mod cost $800 without shipping. That price is OFFICAL from Dan, same price as for everyone else too.


----------



## ygm

Seamaster - what are the values of the caps replaced - I can see 4 x .22uf in the picture. What about the other ones? (Just trying to price out the upgrade =))


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The price for my Mod cost $800 without shipping. That price is OFFICAL from Dan, same price as for everyone else too._

 

atbglenn pointed out to me that because of the DACT CT2 balanced stereo stepped attenuator, one of the MW caps had to be installed right below one of the 6080 sockets (or on top of the socket depending on how you look at it)--it looks like it is over the left channel 6080 socket. I guess this must be okay since Dan positioned it there himself.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Clayton SF* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_atbglenn pointed out to me that because of the DACT CT2 balanced stereo stepped attenuator, one of the MW caps had to be installed right below one of the 6080 sockets (or on top of the socket depending on how you look at it)--it looks like it is over the left channel 6080 socket. I guess this must be okay since Dan positioned it there himself._

 

I don't notice any inbalanced or difference between L/R channels. The solder point of those two caps are the same. Only the lead wires are prebent in to different shape but the lenght are the same.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Seattle meets are where it's at to listen to this stuff._

 

I saw some photos of the meet. It looked like a great turnout. How many meets to you have in Seattle a year?


----------



## KingStyles

Typically 3-4 meets a year with an occasional mini meet.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't notice any inbalanced or difference between L/R channels. The solder point of those two caps are the same. Only the lead wires are prebent in to different shape but the lenght are the same._

 

I did worry very much at meet when I just got the amp, and asked many people to tested out. It was the CDs that not ideally mastered.


----------



## BIG POPPA

That last meet came together very well. The Newbies were in for an awesome experience this time around. The people and the gear were incredible. The meet was very laid back with the best opportunities to mix and match gear. My cans were poached most of the meet. Seamasters T1's were all over the place. Just a really good meet in general. Those Portlanders are a great bunch of Head-fiers.


----------



## yilmaz196

These adaptors r the same with glenn's solds? A little cheaper than him. Any quality differences? http://cgi.ebay.com/TWO-NEW-Tube-ada...item439d6b412c
 And seamaster, u suggested 5z3 for rectifier on some page. My sophia died, i want to buy another rectifier tube. Whick u suggest? If 5zes r good, which one u suggest?


 ::: I forgot to write the link 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## tosehee

EML is better than most NOS except a few. And there are always a chance that you might land on some poor one.

 If u got a fund, EML is one nice rectifier to get.


----------



## yilmaz196

Thnx for reply tosehee, sophia is buzzing with some tubes. How is eml about this? I want to use 6f8gs.


----------



## tosehee

I don't have any buzz or hum, but then I also don't use 6f8g.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yilmaz196* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These adaptors r the same with glenn's solds? A little cheaper than him. Any quality differences? TWO NEW Tube adaptor 6F8G to 6SN7 free shipping world - eBay (item 290403860780 end time Mar-19-10 09:39:20 PDT)
 And seamaster, u suggested 5z3 for rectifier on some page. My sophia died, i want to buy another rectifier tube. Whick u suggest? If 5zes r good, which one u suggest?


 ::: I forgot to write the link 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)_

 

No these are not same as Glenn made, just look at those skinny wires. When come to adapters, you want quality instead price. For "cheap" rectifier, 5Z3 type is one the best for money (With adapter). Especically UK made Mullard 5Z3. 5Z3 adapter also could let you use 274A type tube.

 tosehee is right about EML. I have Sophia too, it buzz like crazy with 6F8G tubes, but silent with other type. Maybe the design of Sophia have problem with the grid wires of 6F8Gs.


----------



## yilmaz196

Eml buzzing with 6f8g?


----------



## ygm

After balancing my HE-5s I can report that while the quality of bass has increased, its quantity and impact have decreased. I've been going through all my tubes again trying to restore the impact - without much success ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 Best combo so far are 5998 + Tung-Sol GT. 

 Saving up for an EML rectifier - although I'm not sure how much added impact it will provide....


----------



## Clayton SF

Seamaster. I thought I read somewhere (I can't find it now) that you are using a test CD to help burn in your WA22 mod. If you did use a CD what is it? Is the T1 settling in too?


----------



## KingStyles

He is using the isotek cd.
MUSICDIRECT - ISOTEK - Full System Enhancer Burn-In CD


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingStyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He is using the isotek cd.
MUSICDIRECT - ISOTEK - Full System Enhancer Burn-In CD_

 

Thanks, KingStyles--I just went to the site and read about it. I was unaware that sound had demagnetizing capabilities. Interesting.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingStyles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He is using the isotek cd.
MUSICDIRECT - ISOTEK - Full System Enhancer Burn-In CD_

 

Thanks Kingstyles. Yes, Isotek is best for burn-in headphone and speakers.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *yilmaz196* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eml buzzing with 6f8g?_

 

So far, I don't heave any buzz or noise with EML pair with any driver/power tubes. Don't ask why, they are just silent.


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Seamaster* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Kingstyles. Yes, Isotek is best for burn-in headphone and speakers._

 

If your speakers and headphones are already burned in, is the recording good for just burning in new caps as well?


----------



## ygm

I just had an interesting conversation with a tube amp designer. Looking at the pictures of the WA22 internals he commented that the WA22 is optimized for the 6AS7 and is severely underbiased for the 5998/7236. Which sort of matches my observations after switching to 5998 - the sound got "flatter" and lost that magic feeling. I decided to do some research and found similar commentary here:

Griffon 6AS7G


  Quote:


 The most noticeable valves I'm using are Svetlana 6AS7Gs for both the power output double-triodes and the regulated power supply. I'm choosing them for both quality and looks, but I'm initially going to use my amps with my old Brimar 6080 pulls. The 6080 is a rugged version of the 6AS7G, looking very much like a 6550. They're both common types, usually cheap as they're not considered "premium" audio ones like 2A3s or 6L6GCs, and are plentiful as both NOS and current manufacture. You could spend heavily on Tung-Sol 6AS7GAs, *or similar types like the 5998 - which has twice the gain - or the impressive Western Electric 421A (note that you'd need different cathode bias resistors for these!*), but I'm working with what I've got.


----------



## Seamaster

Not only 6AS7 are underbiased, 6SN7 are underbiased with WA22 too. But this helps tube life and reliability.


----------



## Skylab

The 5998 is *not* a direct equivalent to the 6AS7. It isn't "dangerous" to use it, since it actually draws just slightly less heater current. But it does have twice the transconductance of a 6AS7, among other differences. So for sure it will not be perfect in all amps that use 6AS7's. I don't know much about the WA22, but as far as the tubes go, the 5998 and 6AS7 certainly differ enough that there will be significant sonic differences. Might be for the better - or not.


----------



## ygm

From my experience with a VAC PA80/80 (a push-pull tube amp with manual bias adjustment) under/over biased tubes sound perceptably worse than optimally biased ones.

 The amp designer indicated that the 5998 would be up to 40% underbiased in the wa22 circuit. If, however, as Seamaster has indicated, the 6AS7G is already underbiased then the 5998 would be even worse off.


----------



## ygm

On a side note - I went back to the stock Sovtek rectifier and have to admit that I like it a lot more than the NU 5U4G. Much more dynamic presentation. The NU is a bit tooby for me: loose bass and rolled-off highs.

 I can't spring for the EML 5U4G mesh yet - any other rectifiers worth considering? Maybe a Svetlana 5C3S Black Plate circa 1959?


----------



## yilmaz196

What about mullard gz34? Good rectifier i think but alittle expensive.


----------



## ygm

I take it back. I was listening to some SKA and the snap/sizzle of the sovtek fitted the music to a tee. Moving to some jazz I found the sovtek underwhelming (and thats an understatement)

 I'm going to try a JAN RCA 5r4GY and a Tung Sol 5U4G while I save up for the EML. =)


----------



## grokit

Okay tube newbie here bumping another thread, trying to understand how each kind of tube on the WA22 affects the sound signature. The only thing I really get at this point is that using a different power tube, like the Sylvania 7236 over the GE 6AS7, can increase the output level of the amp.
   
  But could someone please explain in simple terms how the power, rectifier and driver tubes interact with each other, and how each one affects the SQ individually?
   
  Thanks in advance to anyone who attempts to answer this stoopid-sounding question


----------



## Skylab

Here is a good thread to read regarding the power tubes...
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/410326/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here/


----------



## grokit

Any idea what happened to the "tube tutorial" sticky, did it get "lost in the cloud"?


----------



## Seamaster

As far as WA22
   
  Driver tubes affect the sound the most, then rectifier. Power tubes affect the sound the least. For example: I you get too drunk, you would not tell the difference between GEC 6080 and GEC 6AS7G


----------



## Double F

Is there a difference between the 6080 and 6as7g  GEC.  I am not drunk at the moment


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





double f said:


> Is there a difference between the 6080 and 6as7g  GEC.  I am not drunk at the moment


 

 Electrically, they are the same.  Physically, not the same. 
   
  6080:
   

   
  6AS7G:


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





seamaster said:


> As far as WA22
> 
> Driver tubes affect the sound the most, then rectifier. Power tubes affect the sound the least. For example: I you get too drunk, you would not tell the difference between GEC 6080 and GEC 6AS7G


 

 Thank you very much for that simple yet informative response Seamaster, it is what I have been looking for!
   
  And thank you Skylab, for the link. Threads like those (and this one) are quite interesting and informative as well, but they do assume some basic knowledge that I do not currently have. The books that I have looked into seem to want to educate me on how to build my own tube amp, which is not my objective. I would be most interested in something like "headamp tube rolling for dummies".
   
  Which leads me to another silly question, inspired by a post on that thread:
   
  Is the input tube the same as the driver tube, or the power tube?


----------



## Skylab

I did post quite a bit of information on the 6AS7G and its variants here:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/324469/review-four-6as7g-based-home-tube-headphone-amps-reviewed-and-compared
   
  And yes, input = driver, for all intents and purposes.


----------



## Seamaster

Quote: 





double f said:


> Is there a difference between the 6080 and 6as7g  GEC.  I am not drunk at the moment


 

 GEC 6080 is little darker than GEC 6AS7G, little lack spark on the top compare to also. 6AS7G is little brighter and resolving, which may give you a sense of more dynamic also. The difference is small but audioble. Cans like Grado or HD-800 are actrullay benifit from using GEC 6080.


  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Electrically, they are the same.  Physically, not the same.


 
  Sonically also



  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Thank you very much for that simple yet informative response Seamaster, it is what I have been looking for!


 

 You are welcome


----------



## grokit

Does anybody know the output impedance of the WA22 as far as the HI / LO impedance switch goes?
   
  Obviously a 32 ohm headphone would be used on LO and a 600 ohm on HI, but what about those in between cans, like a 50-75 ohm, or a 100-250 ohm?
   
  I know it says, "Headphones impedance: 8-600 Ohms", and "Output: 810 mw with 6080, 2 watts with 7236 power tubes", but what doeas that mean for nominal output impedance?
   
  That shouildn't change with the power tube selection, right?


----------



## nututubes

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Does anybody know the output impedance of the WA22 as far as the HI / LO impedance switch goes?
> 
> Obviously a 32 ohm headphone would be used on LO and a 600 ohm on HI, but what about those in between cans, like a 50-75 ohm, or a 100-250 ohm?
> 
> ...


 


 Exactly my question at the moment. My WA22 won't be here for a month, but I still would like to know now. The headphones are Senn HD800.


----------



## minimus

Has anybody discussed the use of tube adaptors in the WA22 with Jack Wu? 
   
  I know Mikhail sold tube adaptors for Singlepower amps and everybody by now should know he was a fraud.  His amps also have failed at an alarming rate.  Most failures probably resulted from poor construction, but it is possible that the use of tube adaptors he sold hastened their demise.
   
  Since then, a number of people who understand something about tube amp design (Kevin Gilmore, Nikongod) have written elsewhere on Head-Fi that tube adaptors are a terrible idea and that one should only use the tubes the amp was designed for. 
   
  In the same vein,  I know of no manufacturer of tube preamps or power amps for use in speaker rigs who has ever sanctioned, let alone recommended, the use of tube adaptors in their components.


----------



## Clayton SF

x2. Thanks for bringing this up.
   
  Craig Uthus (Eddie Current LLC) advised me against using tube adapters in his Zana Deux SE. The specific adapter is the 6C8G to 6SL7. He emailed me:
   
  [size=x-small]"You can't put a 6SL7/6C8G in the ZD because it has twice the heater current, and it will not bias up correctly."[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]This adapter is [/size]specifically made to use 6C8G tubes in place of 6SL7 but Craig strongly advises against the practice in his ZDse.
   
  Up until last night I used 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters in my WA22. Now I've put the 6SN7 tubes back into my Woo and I am wondering if I should ever use those adapters again. I just don't want to use an adapter that wasn't sanctioned by Jack.


----------



## jc9394

Quote:  





> Up until last night I used 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters in my WA22. Now I've put the 6SN7 tubes back into my Woo and I am wondering if I should ever use those adapters again. I just don't want to use an adapter that wasn't sanctioned by Jack.


 


  I do use the 6F8G to 6SN7 adapter with my WA22 few times.  I did emailed Jack this adapter, he did said it is ok to use and he do sell them.  From what I read, the spec on the 6F8G is the same as 6SN7. (I may be wrong, I can't find where did I saw that)


----------



## Clayton SF

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> I do use the 6F8G to 6SN7 adapter with my WA22 few times.  I did emailed Jack this adapter, he did said it is ok to use and he do sell them.  From what I read, the spec on the 6F8G is the same as 6SN7. (I may be wrong, I can't find where did I saw that)


 

 Well that's a relief. I can now throw the 6F8G's back into the mix.Thanks!


----------



## Seamaster

Jack of Wooaudio as now have in-house made 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters. All my adapters made by Glenn also never failed. I have used them over how long? The key is these adapters have to be made by people who have knowledge and skill to do so


----------



## M25K2

Gec U52, VT99, 5998 for my WA22


----------



## Dubstep Girl

GEC u52!!!1 nice tubes!
   
  how does it sound? i'm thinking of buying one for my WA6-SE


----------



## britneedadvice

Hi 
 New Amp for me, so just going through the motions of 'testing' the tubes I've bought .
 Best combination so far GEC 6AS7G Curved/ Mullard ECC32 / GEC 5R4GY curved(looks like a U52?) with Classical music( British ears-British tubes??)Just rolled in a Brimar 5Z4G. (also tried WE422A TS 5995 Mullard 6080)Full report later.
  
 I also have a pair of ECC33s which I need some feedback on.Not so much for the SQ but as a viable sub for 6SN7. Any views?
 Woo Audio & Tube supplier (respected source in UK) say YES, Seller who supplied the pair(respected source in US) says NO.
 Thank you.


----------



## kchew

I have the ECC33 in my WA22 right now for a few days already. No worries.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

Interesting...i did not think gec made a 5r4gy, it might actually be a u52 kinda like how some u52 are labeled 5u4g or cv575 or cv1071


----------



## britneedadvice

When you have two opposing opinions , both from reliable sources, it's difficult to know who to go with.Just shows,even the best aren't always right?


----------



## britneedadvice

Yes, definitely  , GEC 5R4GY, but I as I said, looks every bit a U52!


----------



## Badas

Okay, My WA22 should be here in the next day or two.
  
 I have been told that the best tubes for my Audeeze are:
  
 Rectifier: Mullard GZ32. I have ordered two to start with.
 Power: TS 7236. Ordered a set from Woo. They are on the way.
 Driver: TSBG 6F8G plus adapters.
  
 Thanks for those recommendations.
  
 The drivers and adapters are really hard to find. Not sure if I want to do the whole adapter thingy also. Is the stock drivers okay or crap? I think I read in this thread that the Brimar CV1988 / 6SN7GT was endgame for a 6SN7 type of tube. Does that mean good or bad? I think I might like to stay with this type of tube for convenience. The Brimar CV1988 / 6SN7GT is very easy to get also.
  
 See here: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/brimar-cv1988-6sn7gt/
  
 Do you think I will be okay with these?


----------



## Stereolab42

WA22 + LCD-XC here. Stock drivers are OK except for the Shuggy rectifier, which doesn't sound terrible but the build quality is (glue leaking from the base, some break easily, etc.) I run a Sophia Princess, which handily beats every NOS rectifier I've tried for detail and resolution.
  
 TS 7236 are the best power tubes. They both run the amp cool and have high gain, but the only source for them I can find is Woo. In general finding NOS power tubes that aren't noisy is terribly hard (stay away from RCA 6AS7Gs!). Some of the modern Russian 6AS7Gs, like the Winged "C"s, are quite good. NOS RCA 6080s also make cheap, decent backups.
  
 For drivers, I like the Sophia new-production 6SN7s, mid-priced Sylvania brown-base NOS, and the pricey Woo Sylvania VT231s.


----------



## Badas

stereolab42 said:


> For drivers, I like the Sophia new-production 6SN7s, mid-priced Sylvania brown-base NOS, and the pricey Woo Sylvania VT231s.


 
  
 Cool so the Sophia 6SN7's are okay. What about this:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-PSVANE-UK-Design-Vacuum-Tubes-UK-6SN7-CV181-/321519006988?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4adc06b50c
  
 I've been eying that one up.


----------



## Stereolab42

I've been tempted to try the PSVanes as well. I encourage you to do so and report back, my tube drawer is full at the moment (counting the pack of power tubes en-route to me from Moscow.)


----------



## punit

stereolab42 said:


> I run a Sophia Princess, which handily beats every NOS rectifier I've tried for detail and resolution.


 
 (Sorry, Don't mean to be rude ) But in that case you have not tried the right NOS rectifiers.
  
 edit :
  
 Please check this thread for good NOS rectifier recommendations
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## Dubstep Girl

punit said:


> (Sorry, Don't mean to be rude ) But in that case you have not tried the right NOS rectifiers.


 
  
 +1
  
 i didn't wanna say anything lol


----------



## Stereolab42

I did look at that list, and so many are simply unavailable now. What's the point in recommending a tube that can't be bought for any price?


----------



## punit

I bought quite a few from that list in the last 6 months. Some from classifieds here some from ebay. Some patience is required.


----------



## Badas

badas said:


> Okay, My WA22 should be here in the next day or two.
> 
> I have been told that the best tubes for my Audeeze are:
> 
> ...




Any comments on the Brimar 6SN7 being any good as a driver tube? I would probably like to stay NOS for the whole system. 

Ohh yeah my WA22 is in customs as we speak. Should be in my very excited hands early next week.


----------



## punit

The Brimar CV1988 are amazing tubes but the ones I have look different than the Upscale link. Mine look like this
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Brimar-CV1988-6SN7GTY-FE-Vacuum-Tubes-Two-2-Available-/131294015922?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e91bbb1b2
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2Pcs-NOS-CV1988-6SN7GTY-CV181-5692-6SN7GT-ECC32-Matched-Pair-/291234795068?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43cef24e3c
  
 so am not sure if these are the exact same tubes. Will check with the experts in the 6sn7 thread.


----------



## Dubstep Girl

should be same tube i think.


----------



## a1uc

New WA22 owner looking for suggestions on tube upgrades


----------



## abvolt

a1uc said:


> New WA22 owner looking for suggestions on tube upgrades


 
 This is a more active thread ask here -->http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite
 congrats on the wa22..


----------



## jayband

Just purchased the WA22 (upgrade from a WA3) to drive my HD800, thinking about doing 422A + 421A + Tung Sol 6F8G, what do you guys think?


----------



## IndieGradoFan

jayband said:


> Just purchased the WA22 (upgrade from a WA3) to drive my HD800, thinking about doing 422A + 421A + Tung Sol 6F8G, what do you guys think?


 

 That's basically what I use, though sub the 421A with either TS 5998 or TS 6AS7G depending on mood. I'd love a pair of 421A but those are out of my reach. Great combo all around.


----------



## abvolt

jayband said:


> Just purchased the WA22 (upgrade from a WA3) to drive my HD800, thinking about doing 422A + 421A + Tung Sol 6F8G, what do you guys think?


 
  
 Sounds cool but if your going to the expense of the 422a +421b , I'd suggest  better driver tubes since I've owned the mullard ecc31's I've sold all my ts 6f8g / 6c8g's the ecc31's are far superior. You might also want to check out the ts 5998's very nice..


----------



## jayband

abvolt said:


> Sounds cool but if your going to the expense of the 422a +421b , I'd suggest  better driver tubes since I've owned the mullard ecc31's I've sold all my ts 6f8g / 6c8g's the ecc31's are far superior. You might also want to check out the ts 5998's very nice..


 

 I thought the 421A is a better breed of the 5998. Will do some research on the ECC31


----------



## abvolt

it is but sometimes it's also nice to save a little $$..


----------



## jayband

Mean, any WA22 owner has the Jupiter Cu Cap installed? Want to get some feedbacks on my next mod


----------



## abvolt

jayband said:


> Mean, any WA22 owner has the Jupiter Cu Cap installed? Want to get some feedbacks on my next mod


 
 That sounds like a cool idea I've read others doing that but never heard any real big differences in sq,from them, post any impressions if you do install new caps really like to hear them..
  
 Also I think you'll find more Woo users over here it's a much more active thread --> http://www.head-fi.org/t/428570/woo-audio-amp-owner-unite


----------



## leftside

Looking forward to adding to this thread in the near future. I should be picking up a WA22 with upgraded tubes next week. Will be interesting to see how it compares to my Bryston BHA-1 "as is" and then I might consider doing some tube rolling myself later.
  
 I prefer this thread over the "woo-audio-amp-owner-unite" thread as that one is simply a "catch-all", and this one is dedicated to the subject I'm interested in.


----------



## abvolt

leftside said:


> Looking forward to adding to this thread in the near future. I should be picking up a WA22 with upgraded tubes next week. Will be interesting to see how it compares to my Bryston BHA-1 "as is" and then I might consider doing some tube rolling myself later.
> 
> I prefer this thread over the "woo-audio-amp-owner-unite" thread as that one is simply a "catch-all", and this one is dedicated to the subject I'm interested in.


 
 awesome news dude, love to see this thread live also..


----------



## leftside

Any recent tube upgrades that have made a difference to your WA22?
  
 These are the tubes I have (or will have when I collect my WA22 next week).
 - Power: Sylvania 7236 NOS 1963
 - Rectifier: EML 5U4G and Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B
 - Drive: Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z
  
 The above tubes get good reviews from the searches that I've done, but I still wouldn't mind experimenting with other tubes. Are there any tubes I might want to consider as an improvement to the above?


----------



## u2u2

leftside said:


> Any recent tube upgrades that have made a difference to your WA22?
> 
> These are the tubes I have (or will have when I collect my WA22 next week).
> - Power: Sylvania 7236 NOS 1963
> ...


 

 Looks like you may have bought some tubes from Woo with your amp. I also have the 1963 7236 power tubes (actually late 1962) and a SP 274B mesh plate. I have a fair variety of tubes to roll but none of the hard to find expensive ones noted in the 6AS7G thread or Dubstep Girl's rectifier review thread. My 7236 and SP 274B are good but I am more satisfied with several less costly tubes. I have tried several Mullard rectifiers and got better value from 1972 Brimar 5Z4GY and 1952 RCA 5R4GY that are readily available as true new old stock. For power tubes Mullard 6080 in civilian or military labels and GEC 6080WA are also readily available as true new old stock and perform every bit as well as the Sylvania at better cost. Driver wise I am settling in on Sylvania tubes that don't get much love here. The 6SN7WGT brown base. If you are supporting Canadian vendors there are reliable in country sources for many good tubes. James at Langrex for Brimar rectifiers and the power tubes. Hope you enjoy your WA22 at least as much as I have mine. Do expect the amp to need some time to run in.


----------



## leftside

Yes, those tubes came from Woo. I've purchased this from a fellow Canuck who is a member of this site, so it should be run in already. I always try and support local vendors where ever possible, so please feel free to PM me other vendors that you might know.
  
 I also like a single malt whisky, and just because a particular single malt might be difficult to find doesn't necessarily make it "good". Willing to try a few tube recommendations from people on this site.


----------



## abvolt

The biggest change I've had was when I switched  out my driver tubes from ts 6f8g & nu 6c8g's to a pair of mullard ecc31's there so much better sounding, I'll also be getting a pair of mullard ecc35's some time next week, I also really like the ts 5998's & mullard 6080's for my power tubes..Enjoy


----------



## leftside

Did you need an adapter for those ECC31's?
  
 Also, on the WA22 compatibility list I only see the ECC32 and ECC33 listed. Obviously you've had no problems though?
 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html#


----------



## abvolt

yes their is a adapter needed you can get them off ebay their cheap look for a ecc31 to ecc33 or ecc31 to 6sn7 like this
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-plated-ECC31-6N7G-TO-6SN7-CV181-B65-ECC33-ECC32-tube-converter-adapter-/201408123468?hash=item2ee4dc124c:g:3-UAAOSwMmBVvXRv


----------



## leftside

Thanks for the link and info. I plugged in the WA22 last night and time for a quick listen with stock tubes. Certainly nothing wrong with it. I hope to do some more extensive listening this evening.
  
 I've also ordered more tubes, so will report on my findings later.


----------



## leftside

The sound out of the box with the stock tubes was ok apart from a fault with one of the Sylvania 6SN7GTB - humming noise in the right channel - so I threw those out. There was a definite improvement with the tube upgrades that I also received. The EML 5U4G is a very sweet sounding rectifier. The Sylvania 7236 added some extra power that my LCD3's definitely liked and I'm pleased with the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z. To my ears this is a very warm/smooth combo without losing any of the detail I hear through my Bryston BHA-1. 
  
 Original:
 One Rectifier: 274B
 Two Drivers: Sylvania 6SN7GTB
 Two Power: RCA 6080 Power
  
 Upgrades:
 One Rectifier: EML 5U4G
 Two Driver: Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z
 Two Power: Sylvania 7236 NOS 1963
  
 The Woo definitely received wife approval. Loves the look of the tubes. Romantic  So far I'm very happy with this purchase.


----------



## abvolt

leftside said:


> The sound out of the box with the stock tubes was ok apart from a fault with one of the Sylvania 6SN7GTB - humming noise in the right channel - so I threw those out. There was a definite improvement with the tube upgrades that I also received. The EML 5U4G is a very sweet sounding rectifier. The Sylvania 7236 added some extra power that my LCD3's definitely liked and I'm pleased with the Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z. To my ears this is a very warm/smooth combo without losing any of the detail I hear through my Bryston BHA-1.
> 
> Original:
> One Rectifier: 274B
> ...


 
  
 Very cool I've never tried the Shuguang Treasure's hope to sometime though, I'm currently using a set of ts 5998's  and a set set of mullard ecc31's  with a mullard gz 37 rectifier. simply awesome sounding..


----------



## leftside

abvolt said:


> Very cool I've never tried the Shuguang Treasure's hope to sometime though, I'm currently using a set of ts 5998's  and a set set of mullard ecc31's  with a mullard gz 37 rectifier. simply awesome sounding..


 

 The Treasure's seem to get mixed reviews on here, but I like them. I have a set of TS 5998's, Mullard ECC31's and Mullard GZ 37 on order so hopefully they'll arrive soon. Meant to be a nice combo. The Sylvania 7236, TS 5998 or WE 421A power tubes are meant to be the best with my LCD-3's (more power). I certainly noticed a difference going from the stock RCA 6080 to the Sylvania 7236.


----------



## grokit

I like the treasures too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quote:


leftside said:


> Upgrades:
> One Rectifier: EML 5U4G
> Two Driver: Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z
> Two Power: Sylvania 7236 NOS 1963


 
  
 I ended up with these same tubes in my WA22, except the rectifier. I went back and forth between the 5U4G and the Princess for a while, and liked them both. This tube combination was the best for driving the two headphones I was using at the time, which had very different sound signatures. (HD800/LCD2.1). Then I tried out the USAF 596 with an adapter and haven't rolled since. My WA22 is modded as a preamp, but when I use it to drive headphones directly the HD800 has been replaced by a PS1000.


----------



## leftside

I've had a few tubes starting to arrive, but my favorite combo right now is the following:
 - Power: Western 421A NOS 
 - Rectifier: Valvo labelled 1958 Stittard Plant Philips GZ34 NOS
 - Driver: Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z
  
 I've done a few A/B swaps against my Bryston BHA-1 and initially the differences were very subtle. Now the sound is more engaging - especially the vocals. The vocals have really come forward in the sound stage.
  
 Initially I was a little concerned about this tube rolling, as I tend to have OCD about these things, and was really worried about the amount of time I'd devote to this. But, I'm enjoying it a lot - even if my pocket isn't!


----------



## abvolt

leftside said:


> I've had a few tubes starting to arrive, but my favorite combo right now is the following:
> - Power: Western 421A NOS
> - Rectifier: Valvo labelled 1958 Stittard Plant Philips GZ34 NOS
> - Driver: Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z
> ...


 
 Wow your off to a really nice start, I've never heard the treasures sure would like sometime..Enjoy


----------



## leftside

Think I've got a new favorite combo:
  
 - Power: Western 421A NOS 
 - Rectifier: Cossor 53KU ST Fat Shape 
 - Driver: Mullard ECC32
  
 My goal is to get three sets of favorite combo's and then rotate them. Socket savers are on their way...


----------



## abvolt

I'll bet those are some really great tubes you've got..


----------



## leftside

Some of the lettering has rubbed off the Mullards, but they do sound nice. And it was reading your posts that put me onto the Mullards. Thanks, but my pockets are a little lighter lol.


----------



## abvolt

Yeah I agree those driver tubes are some of my favorites, once I started listening to the mullards they've not been taken out, there so sweet sounding..Enjoy


----------



## leftside

The biggest difference I've noticed with the better tubes to my untrained ear is the bass.


----------



## abvolt

Yes that is part of the experience one gets with more sought after tubes like you've got. I found the best way to really notice the differences in stock tubes over the better sounding tube is to first know the very stock sound of your amp, if you have a cd of piece or music your very familiar with listen closely with stock tube you'll find with your better tubes sound stage is wider mids are finer sounding and the trebel is so sweet and the bass goes very deep. You should notice the differences immediately..Enjoy


----------



## leftside

Yes, to do proper testing I play the same 60 seconds of one of my favorite tracks that combines a lot of different instruments and vocal pitches.


----------



## kyle1010

Hey guys! Walked out of CanJam SoCal last weekend having ordered up a brand new show discounted WA22! I got the black one with a Sophia Princess rectifier as well for starters. This will be an upgrade from my current WA7tp. I also grabbed a Chord Mojo for dac duty, and a new copper Dana Cable for my LCD-Xs. 

Here's the thing..of all the totl stuff I heard at CanJam, the WA22 won me over immediately because it had BALLS. Even in stock form. I listen to mostly hard hitting analog synth based electronic music and almost none of the giant but delicate sounding amps, dacs, or cans were doing it for me. I absolutely love the sound of electronic music through tubes. I guess the only reason I'm stepping up from WA7 is because it sounds insanely good on some tracks, but on others the highs get harsh and out of hand. I had it fully upgraded to CBS Hytron 5814a, Mullard CV4003, or Siemens ECC82 power supply tubes, but I still couldn't tame the highs or get enough low end. 

As for my new WA22 on its way, I'm looking for tube upgrades that give some intense 3D holographic imaging, lots of low end slam, plenty of detail, smooth highs, and as wide a soundstage as is reasonable. I understand that's probably a tall order, but if anyone can point me in the right direction it's you guys! Anyway, I'm hoping this beast will be my 3rd and final headphone amp. Looks-wise, there's nothing on the market I'd rather own. It's gorgeous. I can't WAIT til it arrives this week. But yeah, just poking my head in the door of the WA22 club for now..how you guys doin??


----------



## Contrails

Kyle1010,
  
 Good choice on the WA22 for powering the LCD-X.  I am in the same boat as you including several others.  I honestly think a powerful tube amp coupled with the X is a beautiful sounding system.  Add a good DAC and you are sorted for a very long time, so good choice on the Hugo too.  
  
 Here are my recommendation for tubes for the WA22 and LCD-X.  Personally, I am not a fan of laid back tubes, IMO it doesn't suit the LCD-X sound signature. 
  
 Rectifier:
 TAK-274b
 WE 422a
 GZ34 Brown base (I didn't like the metal base that much especially for what it usually sells for).
 GZ32 great starter tube and can be had for cheap.  
  
 Drivers:
 I have tried Mullard 6sn7gty (cv1988), Tung sol 6su7gty black glass, Stock drivers - I think they are Sylvania, NU 6f8g, Tung sol black glass round plate 6f8g and the only tube I keep going back to is Mullard ECC31.  But you will need some ECC31 to 6sn7 adapters to run these.  A little more bassy, more 3d holographic sound and extended treble and I mean they sound sublime.  I honestly think it's a gem of a tube to the point where I am thinking of selling the rest just to stock up on more ecc31. 
  
 Power tube: I don't think these have much effect on the sound in a WA22 but YMMV.
 Tung sol 5998/Chatham 2399
 GEC 6sa7g
 Bendix 6080wb graphite columns - currently in use in my system.  These are built like a tank. I have both the slotted column version and solid column, makes no difference. 
 Chatham 6as7g
 *don't bother with 7236.  Not worth it as IMO they sound a bit dry. 
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## leftside

I've also purchased a WA22 fairly recently and have purchased a lot of different tubes. I have the LCD-3 headphones. All the WE 422A, WE 274A (which I currently use), Sophia Princess 274B, etc, have caused my Woo to generate a very slight hum that is only noticeable if you place your ear close to the unit. Please note this is NOT a problem for me, but might be for others. Much more importantly, there is no hum generated in the headphones. I also have high-end solid state gear that generates a very slight hum if you place your ear closely to it. My Cossor CV378/GZ37/53KU makes the unit dead silent. When I first used it I thought there might be something wrong...
  
 I've had varying success with driver and power tubes. Some are amazing, but unfortunately some will generate a humming noise in the headphones themselves. I'm a big fan of the Mullard or equivalent ECC31 - ECC35 tubes, but unfortunately they are very expensive - especially if they are genuine NOS. Beware - a lot of sellers advertise tubes as "NOS", but a lot of the time this is total BS. They may test as "NOS", but are hardly "new". My current combo in use is the WE 274A, Mullard ECC32 and WE 421A, but I'm equally happy with the mentioned Cossor or the Valvo labelled 1958 Stittard Plant Philips GZ34, Mullard ECC33, TungSol 5998.
  
 I've had one pair of TungSol 7236 generate a hum noise, but have another pair arriving soon. I really like the Sylvania 7236.
  
 I'll post more of my thoughts at the weekend when I have a little more time. There are a lot of other good drivers that I haven't mentioned.


----------



## abvolt

Congrats on your new wa22 certainly my favorite amp..


----------



## kyle1010

contrails said:


> Kyle1010,
> 
> Good choice on the WA22 for powering the LCD-X.  I am in the same boat as you including several others.  I honestly think a powerful tube amp coupled with the X is a beautiful sounding system.  Add a good DAC and you are sorted for a very long time, so good choice on the Hugo too.
> 
> ...




Thanks! Yeah this seems like a great place to start. I think you nailed exactly what I'm looking for with the Mullard ECC31s. Those will likely be my first upgrade now. So about this Tak-274b. Is that the one Woo sells for just shy of $1k? If so is it really worth it?? What exactly do you gain from such an unbelievably expensive tube? I mean, if it's life changing I'll start saving up for it but wow. I also see that WE 422a was mentioned by leftside as well. What are your impressions of that one?


----------



## kyle1010

leftside said:


> I've also purchased a WA22 fairly recently and have purchased a lot of different tubes. I have the LCD-3 headphones. All the WE 422A, WE 274A (which I currently use), Sophia Princess 274B, etc, have caused my Woo to generate a very slight hum that is only noticeable if you place your ear close to the unit. Please note this is NOT a problem for me, but might be for others. Much more importantly, there is no hum generated in the headphones. I also have high-end solid state gear that generates a very slight hum if you place your ear closely to it. My Cossor CV378/GZ37/53KU makes the unit dead silent. When I first used it I thought there might be something wrong...
> 
> I've had varying success with driver and power tubes. Some are amazing, but unfortunately some will generate a humming noise in the headphones themselves. I'm a big fan of the Mullard or equivalent ECC31 - ECC35 tubes, but unfortunately they are very expensive - especially if they are genuine NOS. Beware - a lot of sellers advertise tubes as "NOS", but a lot of the time this is total BS. They may test as "NOS", but are hardly "new". My current combo in use is the WE 274A, Mullard ECC32 and WE 421A, but I'm equally happy with the mentioned Cossor or the Valvo labelled 1958 Stittard Plant Philips GZ34, Mullard ECC33, TungSol 5998.
> 
> ...




Sweeeet. Definitely looking forward to your impressions. And yeah, I've dealt with the "NOS" thing with my WA7. I got lucky and most of my tubes sound great, but some were obviously not "new". What are your preferences in sound signature?


----------



## Contrails

> So about this Tak-274b


 
  
 Nope, not worth it in my opinion.  Tube rolling on a WA22 is subtle.  And going from a GZ34/GZ32 which can be had for bargain prices in comparison. If you're gonna spend 1k on the rectifier, then you might as well be prepared to go all out on the others. B65 Osram are selling for 3k for a pair.  ECC32 are about $800 for a pair.  GEC6AS7G are around $500 for a pair these days. That's 4k on tubes! You might as well pull the trigger on a Apex Teton/Eddie Current 445 amp instead.  This is all my opinion of course.


----------



## leftside

contrails said:


> Nope, not worth it in my opinion.  Tube rolling on a WA22 is subtle.  And going from a GZ34/GZ32 which can be had for bargain prices in comparison. If you're gonna spend 1k on the rectifier, then you might as well be prepared to go all out on the others. B65 Osram are selling for 3k for a pair.  ECC32 are about $800 for a pair.  GEC6AS7G are around $500 for a pair these days. That's 4k on tubes! You might as well pull the trigger on a Apex Teton/Eddie Current 445 amp instead.  This is all my opinion of course.


 

 The prices you mention are for "absolutely mint let's see if I get lucky on eBay" prices, but still there is a lot of truth to what you write. I imagine the B65 are so expensive due to their rarity and not necessarily all because of their sonic qualities.
  
 Here is my "expensive, but still reasonable" tubes that I really like:
 TungSol 5998
 Brimar CV1988 6SN7GTY, Mullard ECC31, Sylvania 6SN7W / 6SN7GT metal base (bit more expensive)
 Valvo labelled 1958 Stittard Plant Philips GZ34


----------



## Contrails

> TungSol 5998
> Brimar CV1988 6SN7GTY, Mullard ECC31, Sylvania 6SN7W / 6SN7GT metal base (bit more expensive)
> Valvo labelled 1958 Stittard Plant Philips GZ34


 
  
 That would sound sweet.  What headphones are you using btw? 
  
 If you don't mind me asking, how would you compare the Metal base 6sn7gt vs ECC31?


----------



## leftside

contrails said:


> That would sound sweet.  What headphones are you using btw?
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, how would you compare the Metal base 6sn7gt vs ECC31?


 

 LCD-3F. I'm going to do some more comparing of the Metal base 6sn7gt vs ECC31 at the weekend. As *Contrails *mentioned the differences can be subtle. But, once my brain/ears identify the subtle differences, then the subtle differences become less subtle. If that makes sense.


----------



## abvolt

I agree one has to be very careful when buying tubes because it can become out of control very fast, you can literally spend more on tubes then your amp cost I have..Enjoy


----------



## leftside

abvolt said:


> I agree one has to be very careful when buying tubes because it can become out of control very fast, you can literally spend more on tubes then your amp cost I have..Enjoy


 
 Tell me about it lol


----------



## kyle1010

contrails said:


> Nope, not worth it in my opinion.  Tube rolling on a WA22 is subtle.  And going from a GZ34/GZ32 which can be had for bargain prices in comparison. If you're gonna spend 1k on the rectifier, then you might as well be prepared to go all out on the others. B65 Osram are selling for 3k for a pair.  ECC32 are about $800 for a pair.  GEC6AS7G are around $500 for a pair these days. That's 4k on tubes! You might as well pull the trigger on a Apex Teton/Eddie Current 445 amp instead.  This is all my opinion of course.




Dude I totally hear you guys. Luckily the 12AU7 tubes in my WA7 were relatively cheap, but that didn't stop me from spending half the cost of a new amp on sets. I'm gonna try and keep it simpler with the WA22 if you guys say the swaps make subtle differences. I was enjoying it stock at CanJam on my LCD-Xs, but I think Woo has changed the stock rectifier to a Psvane. It was already far more smooth and powerful than my WA7. I figure with a little more bass and 3D-ness of that Mullard ECC31 I might be set as far as my tastes and music goes. But we'll see. Here's a pic of the stock WA22 fresh out the box at CanJam. Looks like a Psvane in there to me..


----------



## Contrails

> I agree one has to be very careful when buying tubes because it can become out of control very fast, you can literally spend more on tubes then your amp cost I have..Enjoy


 
 Me three! I went on a tube buying binge... Next thing I had all the decent  tubes for the WA22 but didn't have the actual amp to put them into.  I ended up buying the amp as the last piece to complete the puzzle.


----------



## leftside

contrails said:


> Me three! I went on a tube buying binge... Next thing I had all the decent  tubes for the WA22 but didn't have the actual amp to put them into.  I ended up buying the amp as the last piece to complete the puzzle.


 
 Lucky you liked the Woo  I'm finished buying tubes now though - unless I ever buy another tube amp


----------



## leftside

kyle1010 said:


> Dude I totally hear you guys. Luckily the 12AU7 tubes in my WA7 were relatively cheap, but that didn't stop me from spending half the cost of a new amp on sets. I'm gonna try and keep it simpler with the WA22 if you guys say the swaps make subtle differences. I was enjoying it stock at CanJam on my LCD-Xs, but I think Woo has changed the stock rectifier to a Psvane. It was already far more smooth and powerful than my WA7. I figure with a little more bass and 3D-ness of that Mullard ECC31 I might be set as far as my tastes and music goes.


 
 Yeah you should be good. I did notice an improvement by changing the power tubes, but I have the LCD-3 which like a little more power. Sylvania 7236, TS 7236 and TS 5998 are all good.
  
 To answer a previous question of yours, I compared the Sylvania metal base to the Mullard ECC31 last night. The differences were very subtle, but I have to give the slight nod to the Sylvania's. There is an extra element of silky smoothness there. I'll compare to the more expensive ECC32 and ECC33 at the weekend, but I'm not expecting too much more of a difference. The $200-$300 range of the ECC31, Sylvania metal and other similar tubes could be the "sweet spot" for the WA22.
  
 I've also have a bunch of "mid-range" driver tubes to try out this weekend:
 RCA GT "grey glass"
 Sylvania WGTA "brown base"
 Tung-Sol "tall boys"
 RCA GTB "black plate"
 Ken Rad GT "black plate"
  
 Managed to purchase the above in a batch from the same seller. All test as NOS.
  
 I'm going to have to scale down the amount of tubes I have, so will start selling some in a month or two.


----------



## kyle1010

Hmmmm. Now you got me torn as to the ECC31 or this Sylvania metal base. Chances are I'll leave the power tubes alone. The LCD-Xs are really efficient and when I listened to the stock WA22 at CanJam, it was almost at peak listening levels for me with half the volume knob to spare. I love it. So much headroom. Well hopefully you get some time this weekend to compare the ECC31 and Sylvania driver tubes and give some detailed impressions. Those bad boys are pricey so I'd like to only buy one pair for now off of you guys' words. As for rectifier, will I be ok with the Sophia 274b for my type of music, or was that a waste of $ for an initial upgrade? 

Oh, and Mike from Woo emailed me today saying my WA22 will ship tomorrow, and that it requires up to 150-200hrs for the amp and tubes to burn in. That's a lot! I usually only listen maybe 3-5hrs a week. Did you guys notice many differences during that period? I mean, a brand new one out of the box at CanJam was easily a top 5 amp of the whole show to me so does it get better??


----------



## Contrails

I would highly recommend you have a read of Dubstep girl's Rectifier shootout.  Very informative. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/694525/dubstep-girls-massive-5ar4-5r4-5u4g-rectifier-review-comparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## kyle1010

Read it. Do you use any of those?


----------



## Contrails

These are the tubes I have in my little stash.
  
 Wester Electric 422a (haven't used it yet)
 Bendix/USAF596 (haven't used it yet)
 Phillips GZ34 Metal base - didn't think it was all that it was hyped to be.  I may have to listen to this tube again.  
 MullardGZ34 Brown base - I really like this tube.  Has the midrange of a GZ32 but opens up the soundstage and gives good bass. 
 Mullard GZ32 - Beautiful midrange
 Brimar 5r4gy - Smooth but too laid back for my liking
 Marconi 5r4gy - Ok sounding
 Stock tube - Sounded good but after I put the others in, this is collecting dust.
  
 I have heard the TAK-274b in someone else's WA22 with the LCD-X and it sounded very nice.  But I couldn't really say how and was it the TAK cos that person has a different DAC to mine and was using different drivers and power tubes.
  
 I use a Metrum Mussette NOS DAC btw.


----------



## abvolt

contrails said:


>


 
 I agree I've gained a lot of  tube knowledge there..


----------



## leftside

Here are my thoughts on the rectifiers I tried out today. Please note this is not as descriptive or as eloquent as DubStepGirls thread. The system consisted of a McIntosh MVP 861, McIntosh C100 preamp, Woo Audio WA22 and LCD-3F headphones. To be honest I didn't notice a huge difference between the rectifiers.
  
 The driver tubes I used were Sylvania metal base, and the power tubes were Tung Sol 7326. I do have slightly better driver and power tubes, but the Sylvania and TS made for a nice reference set. First of all I tested with no music playing and the Woo WA22 at the 3 'o' clock position. The Mac preamp was always at 60 (out of 100). Then I turned the WA22 to max volume with no music playing. At each point I listened for hum from the amp and hum and hiss from the headphones. I played music with the WA22 at the 3 'o' clock position. My reference rectifier was the Valvo GZ34 5AR4.
  
 There was a very slight hiss in the headphones at max volume from all rectifiers, so I won't mention it again. Please note music would be extremely loud at this volume and would probably deafen you, so it is not a concern. I almost think some compromise has been made in tube amps that proclaim a completely black background at max volume, but I digress...
  
 - Valvo GZ34 5AR4: WA22 was dead silent. Great sound. Definitely one of my favorites. Treble, bass, vocals, soundstage all outstanding.
 - Sophia Princess. Very slight hum from WA22. Not quite as full a sound as the Valvo, but still very nice. Spectacular looking tube. One to bring out to show off to your friends.
 - Emission EML 5U4G. Very slight hum from WA22. Not quite as detailed as the Valvo. Again, one to bring out to show off to your friends.
 - Osram CV575. Very slight hum from WA22. Full sound, very detailed. Up there with the Valvo in sound quality.
- Mullard CV593. WA22 was dead silent. Slightly lighter sound. Vocals not as forward/pronounced. 
- Mullard CV378. WA22 was dead silent. Very similar to the CV593
- Cossor 53KU. WA22 was dead silent. Slightly wider soundstage to the Valvo. Vocals slightly more pronounced. This tube is my second favorite.
- Western 274A. Very slight hum from WA22. This tube has bit more of everything, Soundstage, detail, vocals, depth, etc. Very expensive tube. For less than a third of the price you can get the Valvo. You have to decide for yourself if you think these fairly slight differences are worth it.
  
Here is my list of favorites, though I'd be more than happy with any of the above rectifiers.
1) Western 274A
2) Cossor 53KU
3) Valvo GZ34 5AR4
  
As mentioned, I didn't notice a huge difference between the rectifiers. This might be because of my SACD player, preamp and headphones. As long as there is enough power, those headphones sound good anywhere. The only other rectifier I have due to arrive is a Philips metal base. This should arrive next week.
  
I've got a whole bunch of driver tubes to try out next.


----------



## abvolt

awesome write-up..


----------



## leftside

I tried a whole bunch of driver tubes today. I obtained most of these in one batch from the same seller. The tube pins were some of the dirtiest/dusty I'd ever seen, but they cleaned up really nicely with Deoxit cleaner and then were conditioned with Deoxit gold and left over night (I do this with all my tubes). Here's a pic of some of them:
  

  
 There was also a 1940's Sylvania VT-231 and Tung Sol BGRP. All of these tubes were really nice, and I thoroughly enjoyed listening to them this afternoon. But, to be honest I couldn't tell much difference between them. Maybe subtle differences here and there, but I was expecting more. All dead silent with no hum.
  
 The stand-out tubes were the Sylvania metal base and even more so the brown base Mullard ECC33. The ECC33's were really superb. The differences weren't striking, but they were definitely there with this tube. Almost sounded louder - so much so that I had to check the volume control. I also have the Mullard ECC31's and ECC32's, but after closer inspection it appears these are not matched, so I'm on the hunt for matching tubes. I have ECC34's and ECC35's arriving next week.
  
 In the near future I'll start selling off some of these tubes, but I need to finish selling a bunch of vinyl records first. Which ones am I keeping? RCA red base, Sylvania VT-231, Tung-Sol tall boys, Sylvania chrome top/brown base, all the ECCxx, Shuguang Treasure and Sylvania metal base. Though that's probably still too much...


----------



## kkcc

contrails said:


> Tube rolling on a WA22 is subtle.




I tend to agree with this. Spent a ton of time and $$$ rolling over the years and end up settling for a set of nice but reasonable tubes: ts5998 vt231 and usaf596. They sound great with my hd800 and HE6 with Hugo.


----------



## kyle1010

leftside said:


> I tried a whole bunch of driver tubes today. I obtained most of these in one batch from the same seller. The tube pins were some of the dirtiest/dusty I'd ever seen, but they cleaned up really nicely with Deoxit cleaner and then were conditioned with Deoxit gold and left over night (I do this with all my tubes). Here's a pic of some of them:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sooo I don't suppose you'd sell me those Sylvania metal bases huh? I searched around a bit and it's definitely not easy to find a pair of those.


----------



## Contrails

Ok, so I finally pulled the WE422a out along with the 5998s.  Sonic bliss, here I come or so I thought.  Turns out the WE422a, 5998 and ECC31 don't like each other.  The ECC31 has flashed a couple of times during play and the music has stopped for the quarter of the second during the flash but this is not good.  I had to turn the amp off.  I have seen the ECC31s flash during cold start up which I read is normal.  Do you think the adapters might be causing the issue? The 5998 haven't been used in almost 2 years and have about 20-30 hours on them. 
  
 I will substitute some 6su7gty instead of the ECC31s.
  
 Edit: The TS 6su7gty are getting along very very well with the WE422a and 5998. They have a higher gain for sure. But oh man the WE422a.  The holographic soundstage, extends beautifully in both directions.  Instrument decay, dynamics, oh man this is one gorgeous tube to look at and listen too.  Coupled with the 5998 (next test will be with Bendix 6080wb power tubes)... Sonic Bliss finally.


----------



## leftside

kyle1010 said:


> Sooo I don't suppose you'd sell me those Sylvania metal bases huh? I searched around a bit and it's definitely not easy to find a pair of those.


 

 Afraid not. They are hard to find, but quite often appear on eBay (though tough to find exact matches in good shape for a decent price). I wanted the metal base "set" (i.e. power/driver/rectifier) and should have that complete this week.


----------



## leftside

contrails said:


> Ok, so I finally pulled the WE422a out along with the 5998s.  Sonic bliss, here I come or so I thought.  Turns out the WE422a, 5998 and ECC31 don't like each other.  The ECC31 has flashed a couple of times during play and the music has stopped for the quarter of the second during the flash but this is not good.  I had to turn the amp off.  I have seen the ECC31s flash during cold start up which I read is normal.  Do you think the adapters might be causing the issue? The 5998 haven't been used in almost 2 years and have about 20-30 hours on them.
> 
> I will substitute some 6su7gty instead of the ECC31s.
> 
> Edit: The TS 6su7gty are getting along very very well with the WE422a and 5998. They have a higher gain for sure. But oh man the WE422a.  The holographic soundstage, extends beautifully in both directions.  Instrument decay, dynamics, oh man this is one gorgeous tube to look at and listen too.  Coupled with the 5998 (next test will be with Bendix 6080wb power tubes)... Sonic Bliss finally.


 

 Yikes. My Mullard ECC31's are fine with a similar combo. Must be your ECC31's or adapter.
  
 Let us know how it goes with the Bendix. Those are hard to find....


----------



## kyle1010

leftside said:


> Afraid not. They are hard to find, but quite often appear on eBay (though tough to find exact matches in good shape for a decent price). I wanted the metal base "set" (i.e. power/driver/rectifier) and should have that complete this week.




Haha I hear ya. Just wishful thinking. I'll set the alerts on ebay for em. Not in a huge rush. My WA22 hasn't even arrived yet..two more days ugh.


----------



## leftside

kyle1010 said:


> Haha I hear ya. Just wishful thinking. I'll set the alerts on ebay for em. Not in a huge rush. My WA22 hasn't even arrived yet..two more days ugh.


 

 Just two days? You're going to love it. If it's new then you might as well break it in with the stock tubes.


----------



## Contrails

> If it's new then you might as well break it in with the stock tubes.


 
  
 Bingo.  And from the main woo thread, instead of going all out on uber tubes, another possibility is to upgrade the DAC too.


----------



## kyle1010

contrails said:


> Bingo.  And from the main woo thread, instead of going all out on uber tubes, another possibility is to upgrade the DAC too.




Roger that. Aw man. The dreaded break-in period. Luckily I really liked the sound of the brand new straight out the box stock WA22 at CanJam. If it gets better from there holy crap I'm in for a wild ride. I'll more than likely only grab one more rectifier and one set of driver tubes and call it. My nightstand can't really hold much more than the Mojo now as far as DACs. Plus for the music I listen to, and the fact that I only use Tidal via iPhone to feed it, a better/bigger/more pricey dac wouldn't make sense right now. 

Anyway, you guys are a huge help. Thanks for taking the time to write those tube impressions! I think I'm gonna grab a WE422a and those Sylvania metal base drivers and be done with the rolls cuz I need to concentrate on upgrades to the big system in the living room. I'll definitely be posting my thoughts when the WA22 gets here Thursday..oh..and pics!


----------



## Contrails

> I think I'm gonna grab a WE422a and those Sylvania metal base drivers and be done with the rolls cuz I need to concentrate on upgrades to the big system in the living room. I'll definitely be posting my thoughts when the WA22 gets here Thursday..oh..and pics!


 
  
 And a couple of 5998s.  You will be set for a very very long time.


----------



## abvolt

yeah the 5998's are for me extremely nice sounding..


----------



## kyle1010

Fresh out the box, on the nightstand, and breaking in!


----------



## abvolt

That looks good congrats..Enjoy


----------



## kyle1010

abvolt said:


> That looks good congrats..Enjoy




Thanks! Even with no break-in hours and the stock tubes it's fantastic. So much more natural and better depth than my WA7.


----------



## kyle1010

What kinds of improvements did you guys hear after your WA22s broke in?


----------



## abvolt

kyle1010 said:


> What kinds of improvements did you guys hear after your WA22s broke in?


 
  
 It does takes a certain amount of usage time or burn-in for tubes amps to lose their brittle sound and develop their beautiful "warm tone" mine seen to take about maybe 2 months I do listen most everyday 3-5 hours. What I noticed is my amp really opened up in a very big way the improvements in sq were so noticeably better I could tell right away. But keep in mind that's just my opinion others will say something like "10% of perceived improvement over a long period is real, 90% is imagined". I personally don't believe that to be true..Enjoy


----------



## kyle1010

abvolt said:


> It does takes a certain amount of usage time or burn-in for tubes amps to lose their brittle sound and develop their beautiful "warm tone" mine seen to take about maybe 2 months I do listen most everyday 3-5 hours. What I noticed is my amp really opened up in a very big way the improvements in sq were so noticeably better I could tell right away. But keep in mind that's just my opinion others will say something like "10% of perceived improvement over a long period is real, 90% is imagined". I personally don't believe that to be true..Enjoy




Yeah brittle is a perfect word to describe how it sounds right now. Even so, I'm floored with the Mojo/WA22 combo. The Sophia rectifier definitely smooths things out a little, as well as widens the sound stage over the stock Psvane. However the Psvane is definitely a little more bassy(which I likes..). I'll be swapping those two back and forth during the break-in period, but I can already tell I'm in "end-game good" territory even before I move on to a couple more tube rolls. This amp is ridiculously great sounding with the LCD-Xs. As future DAC technology progresses, I'll maybe upgrade that, but the WA22 stays.


----------



## kkcc

kyle1010 said:


> Yeah brittle is a perfect word to describe how it sounds right now. Even so, I'm floored with the Mojo/WA22 combo. The Sophia rectifier definitely smooths things out a little, as well as widens the sound stage over the stock Psvane. However the Psvane is definitely a little more bassy(which I likes..). I'll be swapping those two back and forth during the break-in period, but I can already tell I'm in "end-game good" territory even before I move on to a couple more tube rolls. This amp is ridiculously great sounding with the LCD-Xs. As future DAC technology progresses, I'll maybe upgrade that, but the WA22 stays.




Generally out the 3 I found the biggest change/improvement with the power tube, followed by the rectifier, and last the drivers. While the sophia has the pretties lights


----------



## abvolt

kkcc said:


> Generally out the 3 I found the biggest change/improvement with the power tube, followed by the rectifier, and last the drivers. While the sophia has the pretties lights


 
 Right -on I agree but the driver tubes do make a very big difference as well..Enjoy


----------



## kyle1010

kkcc said:


> Generally out the 3 I found the biggest change/improvement with the power tube, followed by the rectifier, and last the drivers. While the sophia has the pretties lights




Which power tubes are you using and what kinds of changes or improvements did you hear? Oh and yeah the sophia is absolutely gorgeous at night.


----------



## abvolt

kyle1010 said:


> Which power tubes are you using and what kinds of changes or improvements did you hear? Oh and yeah the sophia is absolutely gorgeous at night.


 
 I like using the ecc35's (favorites), I also really enjoy the ecc31's.. The details in my music are so much better it's noticeable different you really need to try them for your self to understand, you won't go back to what ever driver tube your using..Enjoy


----------



## kkcc

kyle1010 said:


> Which power tubes are you using and what kinds of changes or improvements did you hear? Oh and yeah the sophia is absolutely gorgeous at night.




I'm settled with ts5998 that gives me a more euphoric bass with more weight and body for my hd800 and he6. I prefer this over the 7236 which has tighter bass, and the we421a which I find nice smooth sounding but a tad less transparent and less bass impact than the 5998.


----------



## kkcc

abvolt said:


> I like using the ecc35's (favorites), I also really enjoy the ecc31's.. The details in my music are so much better it's noticeable different you really need to try them for your self to understand, you won't go back to what ever driver tube your using..Enjoy




Yea drivers definitely also give you a lot improvement. Just that the 6sn7 prices had been more and more crazy! For 6SN7, I tried and quite like ecc31. Also liked the RCA 5692 , CV1988 but now fin back to vt231 which I feel gave me best transparency.


----------



## kyle1010

kkcc said:


> I'm settled with ts5998 that gives me a more euphoric bass with more weight and body for my hd800 and he6. I prefer this over the 7236 which has tighter bass, and the we421a which I find nice smooth sounding but a tad less transparent and less bass impact than the 5998.




That sounds awesome. So would these be the 5998s to get?


----------



## abvolt

I will say that the ts 5998's are among my favorites If you've never tried them well worth a go on these simply amazing sound..


----------



## u2u2

kkcc said:


> Generally out the 3 I found the biggest change/improvement with the power tube, followed by the rectifier, and last the drivers. While the sophia has the pretties lights


 

 +1 but I would add the power tubes are most likely to be the source of problems such as unwanted noise. They are followed by drivers for unwanted issues. As to rectifiers the 22 is very tolerant. The WA22 is fussy, unforgiving, and demands the best to get it running well. Tubes that perform well in other amps might not in a 22. When you get it right it rewards you handsomely.
  
 One item I have not noticed being discussed is the temperature the amp runs at. Mine typically runs just shy of 120 degrees on the chassis ahead of the tubes. Adding socket savers has reduced that temperature by almost twenty degrees. I assume by getting the tubes further away from the chassis and providing more cooling surface. Has anyone noticed temperature related performance issues? Will the amp run better or be more tolerant of marginal tubes if it is running cooler? I added the savers today so I have not had a chance to make any further observations.


----------



## a1uc

I ended up buying my WA22 back because I missed it , I sold it a short time after it was modded " Jupiter Caps "  Furutech IEC
  
 Long story short , I sold the upgraded Power Tubes I had  TS VT231  but still had the others    
  
  
 Current Tubes
  
 Power Tubes Sylvania 7236
 Driver Tubes Stock
 Rectifier Tube 5AR4 Power Tubes Sylvania 7236
  
  
 Question is what have you guys found to be a good driver tube since I will need to order some .....   I also ended up buying a Lio preamp with a headphone module which will be here in the morning , I want to compare the hp module to the Woo if there isnt a big difference I will probaly sell the Woo again since this will all be paet of my 2 ch setup now .


----------



## leftside

a1uc said:


> I ended up buying my WA22 back because I missed it , I sold it a short time after it was modded " Jupiter Caps "  Furutech IEC
> 
> Long story short , I sold the upgraded Power Tubes I had  TS VT231  but still had the others
> 
> ...


 

 That will be an interesting comparison with the Lio. Please let us know how it goes.


----------



## leftside

I had a big tube rolling session last night. I managed to find a matched pair of Osram B65. I thought these were so expensive because of their rarity, but they also sound fantastic. Even though the ECC33 and ECC35 have more gain, I think I slightly prefer the B65's. Some great pairings of tubes for my setup are the following:
  
 - GEC 6AS7G/ECC33 or ECC35/GEC 53KU
 - WE 421A/Osram B65/WE 274A
  
 A more affordable set of pairings that I also really like:
 - TS 5998/Sylvania VT-231 (1940's)/Valvo/Philips GZ34
  
 I've also found a lot of great tubes that I would consider to be quite reasonably priced:
 - TS 7236/Sylvania 6SN7WGTA brown base chrome dome/Mullard CV593/GZ32
  
 Other reasonably priced drivers: (The ones I have are all NOS): TS GTB Tall Boy, RCA 6SN7 GT Grey Glass, RCA 6SN7GTB Parallel Black Plate. Obviously there are a lot of others out there (many that I don't have)
  
 One of the biggest problems with these old tubes is that some might be in far better condition than others, and obviously that will effect people's opinions. A lot of sellers sell "NOS" tubes that are far from NOS condition. They might advertise them as "tests as NOS", which is not the same. True NOS tubes from the 1940's/1950's that are truly mint and test strong, are very rare. Finding a matching/balanced pair is even rarer. I've found a few, but I won't be using them.
  
 I've now finished buying tubes. I have the WA22 and I know there are much more expensive headphone amps out there, but unless I can compare directly against these amps using my headphones with the music I listen to (perhaps at a CanJam), then I'll be sticking to what I have. A technician I know has recommended some mods/upgrades that I might want to consider, but I'm in no rush.


----------



## u2u2

I spent the last couple of days tube rolling as well. There is too much truth in what leftside has posted so I roll on the lower end of the market. It helps keep peace at home and there are still good true NOS tubes from some reliable sources at the lower end of the price scale. I have been comparing GEC CV2984, CV5008, and CV8614 with Mullard 6080 and CV2984. Drivers were Raytheon 6SN7WGT and GE 6SN7GT labeled made for the Canadian market and made in Canada respectively. They came back to Canada by way of Langrex. Mullard GZ30 for the rectifier. The WA22 performed well with all but the edge goes to GEC CV2984 power tubes. If I move upmarket it will be for a Tak 274B. If that works out  I am going to hope leftside has some casts offs he wants to move east. Tonights WA22 configuration...


----------



## Badas

Didn't even know this thread was here :eek: and I've been on the general Woo thread for just about 2 years. 

Oh well. I will subscribe now. 

Over the past 18 months to two years I have tried so many tubes. I also hunt down cheaper options as I like to hold future stocks. I work on the principle that tube sets will last 5 years so I need 16 sets of everything. 80 years worth. 

I've kinda reached my endgame and are now very near to stocked. 

This is my top setup. 



Rectifier TAK274B, drive tubes Tung-Sol round plates 6C8G and the Sylvania made 6BL7 X plates (often rebranded (I don't care what brand is printed)). 

The TAK274B is not cheap however I find the Brimar 5Z4GY gets ya bloody close. To me close enough. So that is what I've stocked up on.

On rectifiers I have one TAK 274B, 16 Brimar 5Z4GY's and as backups 4 Mullard GZ32's

Drivers I have 32 NOS NIB Tung-Sol RP 6C8g's and 4 NU 6F8G's. Backups 40 RCA 6C8g's. I tried a lot of 6SN7's but none of them really grabbed me. I just held on to a set of RCA WW2 era grey plates.

Power tubes I struggled. I own and tried Mullard, RCA, Bendix graphite plate, Sylvania, Thomson, GEC 6080's and RCA, Chatham, Tung-Sol, GE 6AS7g's and the Tung-Sol 7236. 

In the end the 6BL7 was superior to them all. So at the moment I have 9 sets. With 5 more sets coming. Only a few more sets to stock up on. 

The sound from the TAK274 or Brimar5Z4GY, Tung-Sol 6C8g and Sylvania 6BL7's is truely magical. I've heard a lot of 300B HP tube amps and this tube arrangement gets very close. My WA22 sounds like a great tubed WA5.

Ask away on any tubes I've tried.


----------



## kyle1010

badas said:


> Didn't even know this thread was here :eek: and I've been on the general Woo thread for just about 2 years.
> 
> Oh well. I will subscribe now.
> 
> ...




Dude that looks so cool. With the cost of all those tubes why not just go WA5? Or something even more up the chain for that matter? 

Here's a problem I'm encountering after about 20ish hours of break-in so far with the stock tubes. It's definitely sounding smoother by the day, but WHERE'S MY BASS GOING? Gahhhh! I swear it's a constant fight for low-end weight when you enjoy higher end amps. I'm still recovering from splurging on the WA22, the Mojo, and the new cable for my LCD-Xs, but I want my damn bass lol. I managed to sell off some of my old WA7 tubes and a pair of Jordans out my closet for some extra tube cash. What are some tubes I can grab for around $200-300 that'll get me my bass back? I'm a heavy electronic music guy so I needs it bad.


----------



## u2u2

kyle1010 said:


> Dude that looks so cool. With the cost of all those tubes why not just go WA5? Or something even more up the chain for that matter?
> 
> Here's a problem I'm encountering after about 20ish hours of break-in so far with the stock tubes. It's definitely sounding smoother by the day, but WHERE'S MY BASS GOING? Gahhhh! I swear it's a constant fight for low-end weight when you enjoy higher end amps. I'm still recovering from splurging on the WA22, the Mojo, and the new cable for my LCD-Xs, but I want my damn bass lol. I managed to sell off some of my old WA7 tubes and a pair of Jordans out my closet for some extra tube cash. What are some tubes I can grab for around $200-300 that'll get me my bass back? I'm a heavy electronic music guy so I needs it bad.


 
  
 The tube set in my post just above is well within your price range and easy to get as true NOS from Langrex. I use HD800 phones and bass is no problem - plenty ... Much better than stock. You do need a lot more hours on the new amp though. 150-200. YMMV.


----------



## Badas

kyle1010 said:


> Dude that looks so cool. With the cost of all those tubes why not just go WA5? Or something even more up the chain for that matter?
> 
> Here's a problem I'm encountering after about 20ish hours of break-in so far with the stock tubes. It's definitely sounding smoother by the day, but WHERE'S MY BASS GOING? Gahhhh! I swear it's a constant fight for low-end weight when you enjoy higher end amps. I'm still recovering from splurging on the WA22, the Mojo, and the new cable for my LCD-Xs, but I want my damn bass lol. I managed to sell off some of my old WA7 tubes and a pair of Jordans out my closet for some extra tube cash. What are some tubes I can grab for around $200-300 that'll get me my bass back? I'm a heavy electronic music guy so I needs it bad.




Just go and get the Brimar 5Z4GY from Langrex and you will get nice bass. Very close to solid state.

I didn't want a WA5 or any 300B amp. I just can't get into the price of 300B tubes. Really do we need 300B power for HP's? I've always thought it was over the top. 

I've always had a footprint problem. I don't have much space. Any amp will need to be mid size. Not massive like the WA5.

*See not much space.*


----------



## kyle1010

badas said:


> Just go and get the Brimar 5Z4GY from Langrex and you will get nice bass. Very close to solid state.
> 
> I didn't want a WA5 or any 300B amp. I just can't get into the price of 300B tubes. Really do we need 300B power for HP's? I've always thought it was over the top.
> 
> ...





Roger that. So when you say very close to solid state do you mean just the bass? Or will I lose the liquid warm tube sound altogether? And yeah I see what you mean about the massive WA5 footprint. I'm not down with all that either so I went with WA22. Nice Marantz gear btw. I use an SR7008 for HT duty. Atmos 7010 upgrading soon.


----------



## Badas

kyle1010 said:


> Roger that. So when you say very close to solid state do you mean just the bass? Or will I lose the liquid warm tube sound altogether? And yeah I see what you mean about the massive WA5 footprint. I'm not down with all that either so I went with WA22. Nice Marantz gear btw. I use an SR7008 for HT duty. Atmos 7010 upgrading soon.




Brimar is very dynamic. It delves deep and extends high. So it gives ya dynamic range like SS. Not as lush in the mid-range as say the Mullard GZ32. However you can tweak that with drive tubes.

I have the SR7009. So enjoy Atmos when we get the occasional title. I've just got the minimum ceiling speakers for Atmos. Might install more if the tech develops.


----------



## kyle1010

badas said:


> Brimar is very dynamic. It delves deep and extends high. So it gives ya dynamic range like SS. Not as lush in the mid-range as say the Mullard GZ32. However you can tweak that with drive tubes.
> 
> I have the SR7009. So enjoy Atmos when we get the occasional title. I've just got the minimum ceiling speakers for Atmos. Might install more if the tech develops.




Just ordered the Brimar last weekend(I hope I get a black one). What are some drive tubes I can use to get the mid-range lushness back?


----------



## Badas

kyle1010 said:


> Just ordered the Brimar last weekend(I hope I get a black one). What are some drive tubes I can use to get the mid-range lushness back?




RCA231 or 5692

Tung-Sol round plate 6SN7, 6SL7, 6SU7, 6F8G or 6C8g

NU 6F8g or 6C8g


----------



## kyle1010

badas said:


> RCA231 or 5692
> 
> Tung-Sol round plate 6SN7, 6SL7, 6SU7, 6F8G or 6C8g
> 
> NU 6F8g or 6C8g




Thanks! Whoa that's quite a list. Can I trouble you for some quick impressions and approximate prices of each?


----------



## Badas

kyle1010 said:


> Thanks! Whoa that's quite a list. Can I trouble you for some quick impressions and approximate prices of each?


 

 Just my impressions
  
 RCA V231. Nice midrange. Never gets harsh. I suspect a little treble roll. I may be wrong. $100.
  
 RCA 5692. Like above. More detail. Smokey sounding. Very addictive. $150-$200.
  
 Tung-Sol. My favorite. Just has everything. Just my opinion. Deep bass, warm midrange, plenty of treble detail without going harsh. Very full sounding. Massive soundstage. $80-$800.
  
 NU (National Union). So close to Tung-Sol (99%). A tad leaner but with ever so slightly sweeter treble. $30-$150.


----------



## leftside

I can also strongly recommend the ECC32 - ECC35 tubes. Expensive, but worth it. Genuine NOS in mint condition with original box are extremely rare and extremely expensive. Almost too expensive to play I'd argue. Better to go with a lightly used pair.


----------



## leftside

Here are 3 of my favorite setups. Tube base colour's are colour matched.
  
 Brown Base:
  

  
  
 Silver/Metal Base:
  

  
  
  
 Black Base:
  

  
  
  
 And my favorite combo:


----------



## toidcans

Hey everyone, I have been away from the audio scene for a while, as I was satisfied with what I had at the moment. But after coming back and lurking for a while, I saw some new headphones that I may have an interest in so I picked them up. I have a pair of Ethers coming. So I also decided, to upgrade my set up for them. I am trying to pick up the wa22, currently in the classifieds... I was hoping someone can help me decide if the stock tubes or the ones listed, 6su7 round plate drivers and 6bl7 power tubes, would go well with them. If I am able to purchase it I will give it a whirl with those first to learn the amp. But I would like to see what suggestions you all may have regarding any other tubes that may be worthwhile to keep an eye out for.

Ok nevermind guys, the seller sold it to someone else for some reason. So I will have to decide if I want to go purchase a new one or go a different route. Any suggestions on how this pairs with the Ether's with the stock tubes would be appreciated, to know if I would have to go out and change them from the get go.


Thanks


----------



## leftside

Some GZ34's:


----------



## kyle1010

I seriously can't wait til I get some new tubes. My WA22 is noticeably sounding different with burn-in. Like so much rolloff in the low end and no tube magic midrange now. Boring. I'm actually considering listening straight from my Mojo until I talk myself into buying all these costly new tubes. I'm missing my WA7's deep and lush sound. Too bad it's back in its box in my closet. I still feel like I made a good upgrade choice, but I'm a firm believer in going big or going home. So until I grab some of these $$$ holy grail nos tubes in a few months, my WA22 isn't gonna get much action.


----------



## leftside

kyle1010 said:


> I seriously can't wait til I get some new tubes. My WA22 is noticeably sounding different with burn-in. Like so much rolloff in the low end and no tube magic midrange now. Boring. I'm actually considering listening straight from my Mojo until I talk myself into buying all these costly new tubes. I'm missing my WA7's deep and lush sound. Too bad it's back in its box in my closet. I still feel like I made a good upgrade choice, but I'm a firm believer in going big or going home. So until I grab some of these $$$ holy grail nos tubes in a few months, my WA22 isn't gonna get much action.


 

 I've found the WA22 to sound pretty good with some quite cheap tubes. The trick with this unit is the synergy. Go for lightly used and strongly matched. See my other posts for come good combos that I've found. I feel that I now have the WA22 set up perfectly, but it did take quite some time.The sound is so luscious that I could almost taste it and eat it.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Here are 3 of my favorite setups. Tube base colour's are colour matched.
> 
> Brown Base:
> 
> ...




That is some serious tube porn going on there.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> I've found the WA22 to sound pretty good with some quite cheap tubes. The trick with this unit is the synergy. Go for lightly used and strongly matched. See my other posts for come good combos that I've found. I feel that I now have the WA22 set up perfectly, but it did take quite some time.The sound is so luscious that I could almost taste it and eat it.




Geez. Great statement. I couldn't agree more. Especially the taste the sound statement. 

I've also being playing around with the WA22 far too long and think I've got the sound dialled in perfectly. Also silky and lush. 

One of my favourite combos is also very cheap. Brimar 5Z4GY which I bought at 10 quid (US$15). They have gone up a bit now. Tung-Sol round plate 6C8G's. I purchased 16 sets NOS, NIB at US$60 a set. Crazy cheap. Everyone else was sleeping. Then the 6BL7's which were picked up at US$30. So a total tube cost of US$105. 

It can be done. Wonderful sound without too much $$'s.



US$105 tube arrangement. Thick lush sound. Never gets harsh or out of control.


----------



## abvolt

leftside said:


> Some GZ34's:


 
  
 Very nice..


----------



## leftside

Anyone else heard of Triotron? They were another company owned by Philips (like Mullard). Their tubes are very nice if you can find them. Here is a collection of ECC32 - ECC35


----------



## kyle1010

Interesting. How do the individual sets sound?


----------



## leftside

kyle1010 said:


> Interesting. How do the individual sets sound?


 

 They all sound really nice. Amongst the best tubes I have. Sound the same as the Mullards - as they should - as they appear to be exactly the same tubes (just with different branding).


----------



## kyle1010

Initial thoughts on this Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier. It's only been a few hours with it, and my WA22 is maybe at 22 or so hours total break-in time. Eh. The tonality with the 5Z4GY is definitely lovely. Slightly more open sounding than the stock Psvane, but not a dry sounding openness like with the Sophia Princess. However, the bass, once again, is lackin. Idk if it's because my power and driver tubes are stock, but the slam just is not there. The stock Psvane rectifier easily gives a discernible 3db more low end, at the expense of the overall smoothness and harmonic awesomeness of the 5Z4GY. Welp, back to square one in trying to get the slam back in this rig. Maybe with some new drivers or power tubes mixed with this Brimar I'll be good to go. 

I've been window shopping all of you guys' suggestions. It's so hard to make a decision based on reading short impressions especially since all the great drivers cost a ton. (I drooled over a $1200 ebay pair of Sylvania metal base 6SN7s all weekend. So. Freakin. Gorgeous.) I wish there was a meet somewhere near SD where I live that I could try these things out. Click and pray just does not sound fun.


----------



## Badas

kyle1010 said:


> Initial thoughts on this Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier. It's only been a few hours with it, and my WA22 is maybe at 22 or so hours total break-in time. Eh. The tonality with the 5Z4GY is definitely lovely. Slightly more open sounding than the stock Psvane, but not a dry sounding openness like with the Sophia Princess. However, the bass, once again, is lackin. Idk if it's because my power and driver tubes are stock, but the slam just is not there. The stock Psvane rectifier easily gives a discernible 3db more low end, at the expense of the overall smoothness and harmonic awesomeness of the 5Z4GY. Welp, back to square one in trying to get the slam back in this rig. Maybe with some new drivers or power tubes mixed with this Brimar I'll be good to go.
> 
> I've been window shopping all of you guys' suggestions. It's so hard to make a decision based on reading short impressions especially since all the great drivers cost a ton. (I drooled over a $1200 ebay pair of Sylvania metal base 6SN7s all weekend. So. Freakin. Gorgeous.) I wish there was a meet somewhere near SD where I live that I could try these things out. Click and pray just does not sound fun.




Ya going to have more luck with power tubes with bass. Ya want the rectifier to be dynamic.

Try 7236, 5998, RCA or Mullard 6080 and GE6AS7GA. All produce good bass. Some better in other areas.


----------



## leftside

That's a crazy price for the Sylvania metal base. Have patience and you should be able to get them for 1/4 that price.
  
 I second the power tubes mentioned above. Also give the WA22 another 80 hours or so of burn-in (use the stock tubes for this). I am more than satisfied with the bass in the WA22, but it doesn't "slam" and neither is this something I am looking for. You can get a cheap amp that delivers bass slam. It might not deliver much else though...  When you get used to the sound of this amp, you might try out other amps and think "all I can hear is the bass, it totally overrides all the magical quality in the music".  I like a lot of electronic music, so I definitely like a decent amount of bass. I just don't want the bass to override everything else.
  
 Different headphones might deliver more bass than different tubes.


----------



## Badas

The Russian 6N13 (6AS7G) delivers stack of bass as well. Too much in my opinion. Everything else sounds muddy with that tube tho. Also very difficult to get a quiet set. I went through 4 sets before I could fine two tubes that worked together quietly.
  
 Not recommended but very bassy.


----------



## kyle1010

leftside said:


> That's a crazy price for the Sylvania metal base. Have patience and you should be able to get them for 1/4 that price.
> 
> I second the power tubes mentioned above. Also give the WA22 another 80 hours or so of burn-in (use the stock tubes for this). I am more than satisfied with the bass in the WA22, but it doesn't "slam" and neither is this something I am looking for. You can get a cheap amp that delivers bass slam. It might not deliver much else though...  When you get used to the sound of this amp, you might try out other amps and think "all I can hear is the bass, it totally overrides all the magical quality in the music".  I like a lot of electronic music, so I definitely like a decent amount of bass. I just don't want the bass to override everything else.
> 
> Different headphones might deliver more bass than different tubes.




I hear ya dude. Here's my retort about bass. Maybe "slam" was a bit of an exaggeration on my part. Being a true hi-fi guy that also loves the thump is not a fun spot to be in. I've read and heard almost those exact same words multiple times in forums and at trade shows. I get it. I absolutely love all of the other magic in music that makes this hobby worthwhile. Lovely midrange, silky extended highs, 3D imaging, wide or intimate soundstaging depending on the tune, I dig it all. Having that stuff with really authoritative bass CAN be done without messing with the rest of the frequency spectrum. I've heard it done right many times on many systems. I'm actually finishing up college right now for a BS in Audio Production. I've definitely learned from my Grammy award winning studio engineer professors here in SoCal that too much bass can muddy up the scene. I don't want a "cheap amp" that overdoes it in the lows, but I do want to rock the f out sometimes with my cans. That's why I went LCD-X. That's why I go tube amps so I can tailor the sound signature and also get that intoxicating even order harmonic distortion. But anyhoo, stepping off my soapbox now. 

Thanks to you awesome WA22 brethren, the problem might be solved. I picked up a NOS matched pair of TS 5998s over the weekend, and I think I'm back in Bassville. Using them with the Brimar 5Z4GY and stock drivers definitely fills out the bottom end correctly, but I feel like the openness heard with the stock power tubes is sacrificed slightly. Not much, but noticeable. Hmmm. Gonna toss in my Sophia Princess with the 5998s and see how that goes. Overall the Tung Sol's sound incredible. This should hold me over til the next upgrade for sure. However, I'm just having a little fun with these initial tube rolls. I'm gonna set everything back to stock soon and finish the burn-in period with those tubes. I really appreciate you guys' impressions. Nothing better than feeling like you made well educated tube purchase decisions 

Ayyyy this is my 100th post on Head-Fi! Pretty sure there's a profile promotion for that.


----------



## Contrails

> Using them with the Brimar 5Z4GY and stock drivers definitely fills out the bottom end correctly, but I feel like the openness heard with the stock power tubes is sacrificed slightly.


 
  
 One of my favourite combo is 5998s with 6su7gty and Western Electric 422a as rectifier.  Beautiful analogue sound with holographic soundstage. Substitute 6BL7 for the 5998 and then I get a more fast clean sound much like Solid state (V200).  I am using a Metrum Musette DAC btw.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> One of my favourite combo is 5998s with 6su7gty and Western Electric 422a as rectifier.  Beautiful analogue sound with holographic soundstage. Substitute 6BL7 for the 5998 and then I get a more fast clean sound much like Solid state (V200).  I am using a Metrum Musette DAC btw.


 

 What version 6SU7GTY? Tung-Sol?


----------



## kyle1010

contrails said:


> One of my favourite combo is 5998s with 6su7gty and Western Electric 422a as rectifier.  Beautiful analogue sound with holographic soundstage. Substitute 6BL7 for the 5998 and then I get a more fast clean sound much like Solid state (V200).  I am using a Metrum Musette DAC btw.




Yesss. I'm renting out my loft for San Diego Comic Con weekend in July and using the extra cash to get that WE 422a. A few nights crashing at my buddy's house(with his insane 11.2 home theater)and I'll be right on target to pick up that tube and some Shure SE846 IEMs without touching the piggy bank. Score!


----------



## Contrails

> What version 6SU7GTY? Tung-Sol?


 
  
 Yep, black glass brown base.


----------



## Contrails

> Yesss. I'm renting out my loft for San Diego Comic Con weekend in July and using the extra cash to get that WE 422a. A few nights crashing at my buddy's house(with his insane 11.2 home theater)and I'll be right on target to pick up that tube and some Shure SE846 IEMs without touching the piggy bank. Score!


 
  
 I would suggest not paying more than $400 for the WE422a. And if you can, pick up some 6BL7 too.  These are cheap as chips.


----------



## Badas

contrails said:


> Yep, black glass brown base.


 
  
 Those are the military aged 48 hour tubes. Sexy buggers.


contrails said:


> I would suggest not paying more than $400 for the WE422a. And if you can, pick up some 6BL7 too.  These are cheap as chips.


 
  
 Ssssssh!


----------



## kyle1010

contrails said:


> I would suggest not paying more than $400 for the WE422a. And if you can, pick up some 6BL7 too.  These are cheap as chips.




Which brand of 6BL7?


----------



## abvolt

I've been enjoying the flat plate Sylvania's very nice..


----------



## leftside

I tried a pair of NOS TS 6C8G this week. I haven't had too much luck with these types of tubes in the past, but this set is really nice. They have a certain warmth to them that I haven't found in most other tubes. I know describing a tube as "warm" might seem a little odd, but that was my immediate thought when I listened to them. Thanks to @Badas to making me go hunting for another set.


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> I've been enjoying the flat plate Sylvania's very nice..




I've just taken delivery of another set of those plus others. I think I agree and would say they are the nicest. Not by a lot tho. 




leftside said:


> I tried a pair of NOS TS 6C8G this week. I haven't had too much luck with these types of tubes in the past, but this set is really nice. They have a certain warmth to them that I haven't found in most other tubes. I know describing a tube as "warm" might seem a little odd, but that was my immediate thought when I listened to them. Thanks to @Badas to making me go hunting for another set.




I've been comparing NU to TS this week. All week I've had the NU in and have now rolled the TS. The sound is extremely similar. I can't say one is better than the other. NU has a little bit sweeter treble. TS seems a little more natural. 

I will point out tho. The NU is one friggin fussy bloody tube. It doesn't like a lot of power tubes. Don't even try with 6BL7. Total noise mess. Both 6F and 6C is the same. I did find it behaves with GE6AS7GA and the Mullard 6080. Not a lot of others tho. The TS was stable and behaved with everything.


----------



## leftside

kyle1010 said:


> Yesss. I'm renting out my loft for San Diego Comic Con weekend in July and using the extra cash to get that WE 422a. A few nights crashing at my buddy's house(with his insane 11.2 home theater)and I'll be right on target to pick up that tube and some Shure SE846 IEMs without touching the piggy bank. Score!


 

 I just picked up a 6 month old set of SE846 IEM's from a local audio buy/sell site. Very nice!


----------



## leftside

As others have mentioned the 6BL7's work very well in the WA22. I have rebranded Sylvania and also GE quads. I posted further thoughts and pics on the 6BL7 thread.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> As others have mentioned the 6BL7's work very well in the WA22. I have rebranded Sylvania and also GE quads. I posted further thoughts and pics on the 6BL7 thread.


 

 Funny you should mention. I did this last night.
  
 Finally got around to running 2 6BL7 tubes off the single 6080 power tube circuit on the WA22. Using the adjustable position adapter. I was hoping the adapter had enough scope to have the tubes in line. It does.
  
 Haven't listen too much yet (a few hours). Very clean, no noise and the transformers don't get hot. I did notice a big bass jump. Amazing how much bass the WA22 can throw out. I will evaluate over the next few weeks.
  
 It is a tight fit but everything does fit.


----------



## leftside

No concern with using different construction types for the 6BL7's? Took me a little while to find matching quads, but wasn't too difficult (for now...)


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> No concern with using different construction types for the 6BL7's? Took me a little while to find matching quads, but wasn't too difficult (for now...)


 

 No concerns. I actually wanted different types. I want to mix it all up to get different flavors. I have 1 of each of the Sylvania made tube and 1 of each RCA in each socket at the moment.
  
 Soon I want to put in the Sylvania X plate and flat plate together in each socket. That should sound good.


----------



## kyle1010

leftside said:


> I just picked up a 6 month old set of SE846 IEM's from a local audio buy/sell site. Very nice!




Yeah I gotta have those. It sucks Shure flaked out on CanJam SoCal cuz I like to try before I buy with headphone stuff, but if they mean what they advertise as "true subwoofer performance" you know I'm all in.


----------



## kyle1010

Tube amps are seriously the strangest electrical devices ever. Did some tube rolling earlier and ended up with the TS 5998s, stock drivers(since I'm waiting to buy the Sylvania metal base 6SN7s soon), and of all things the Sophia 274b. I tried this combo about a month ago when I first got the 5998s and hated it. Brittle, sharp, overly crisp, and artificially wide sounding. Yuck. Same combo after that extra month's worth of burn-in time sounds great now. Smooth, bassy, warm, and wide. Still not as liquid and tonally perfect as I'd like, but we're getting there. Tubes man...strange creatures.

Also, heading to T.H.E. Show Newport on Sunday. Anybody want me to audition any gear while I'm there and report back with impressions? New LCD-X rev2's? HD800S's? Lemme know.


----------



## Badas

kyle1010 said:


> Tube amps are seriously the strangest electrical devices ever. Did some tube rolling earlier and ended up with the TS 5998s, stock drivers(since I'm waiting to buy the Sylvania metal base 6SN7s soon), and of all things the Sophia 274b. I tried this combo about a month ago when I first got the 5998s and hated it. Brittle, sharp, overly crisp, and artificially wide sounding. Yuck. Same combo after that extra month's worth of burn-in time sounds great now. Smooth, bassy, warm, and wide. Still not as liquid and tonally perfect as I'd like, but we're getting there. Tubes man...strange creatures.
> 
> Also, heading to T.H.E. Show Newport on Sunday. Anybody want me to audition any gear while I'm there and report back with impressions? New LCD-X rev2's? HD800S's? Lemme know.




It gets even stranger when working on tube synergy. I have two beautiful sets of NU 6F8G's. They produce a wonderfully sweet sound. In a number of ways I think they are nicer than my favourite driver the TSRP 6C8G. However the NU synergy is a nightmare. They do not behave with other tubes. With a lot of tubes they buzz (an actual audiable buzz). Switch the power tubes and everything is quiet again. Unfortunately they do not behave with the best power tubes. If they did it would be a compelling sound.


----------



## kyle1010

badas said:


> It gets even stranger when working on tube synergy. I have two beautiful sets of NU 6F8G's. They produce a wonderfully sweet sound. In a number of ways I think they are nicer than my favourite driver the TSRP 6C8G. However the NU synergy is a nightmare. They do not behave with other tubes. With a lot of tubes they buzz (an actual audiable buzz). Switch the power tubes and everything is quiet again. Unfortunately they do not behave with the best power tubes. If they did it would be a compelling sound.




Yeah that's weird. I hope I never run into that problem. WA22 is picky enough, I don't need the tubes themselves to also be drama.


----------



## leftside

I don't seem to hear as many differences in sound between the various tubes as other people, so I purchased some very cheap tubes to see if I could hear the differences more clearly. Sure enough, the differences were very obvious. The most obvious differences (to my ears) were the highs and treble. Very bright. In general, I found the cheaper tubes to sound more harsh. The more expensive tubes are more smooth and lush. Of course the bass, imaging and detail are better with the more expensive tubes, but it's the differences in the highs and treble I noticed the most.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> I don't seem to hear as many differences in sound between the various tubes as other people, so I purchased some very cheap tubes to see if I could hear the differences more clearly. Sure enough, the differences were very obvious. The most obvious differences (to my ears) were the highs and treble. Very bright. In general, I found the cheaper tubes to sound more harsh. The more expensive tubes are more smooth and lush. Of course the bass, imaging and detail are better with the more expensive tubes, *but it's the differences in the highs and treble I noticed the most.*


 
  
 I would agree with that. You didn't so happen to buy Sylvania did you? I find them very bright and harsh in the treble (especially the driver). A lot of fans tho.


----------



## leftside

It wasn't Sylvania's. I like their early VT-231's and metal base. I bought a batch of tested NOS tubes from a guy for less than $100, cleaned up the pins and gave them a test. My ears seem to stop being able to tell the difference once I reach a certain price point - typically around the $250-$300 mark for a single rectifier or pair of driver tubes. Notable exception are the B65's. I'd also really like to try the Tak. Haven't really bothered trying any other power tubes since I got the 6BL7's.
  
 I seem to have also "settled" on the Cossor 53KU as my go to rectifier tube. I can't tell too much difference between it and the WE 274A and I'm always worried about damaging the expensive WE 274A when I'm rolling out the driver tubes. Still roll in other rectifier tubes for fun sometimes.


----------



## leftside

Obtained some more ECC33 (black base, dark grey/black plates, yellow Mullard lettering) and some more ECC35 (black base, dark grey/black plates, white Mullard lettering). Compared them to the Osram B65's. The ECC33's and ECC35's sound very similar. They are louder than the B65's. The ECC's are more "in your face'. I was listening to Atmosphere by Joy Division and the drums are louder - almost a little startling, whereas with the B65's they are smoother/more lush, and more at the same sound level as the rest of the music. I'm not saying one is "better" than the other - just different flavors - but I think I slightly prefer the B65's - certainly for slower music like Joy Division and Massive Attack. Perhaps for harder hitting music I'd prefer the more lively ECC's.


----------



## Badas

This is a stunning tube combo for the WA22.

TAK274B. I purchased a second TAK274B second hand with about 1000 hours on it. $250. I like it more than my other TAK274B. The extra hours obviously helps.

NU6F8G drivers. Such a pain in the ass tube. Lovely sounding. A little less mid-range that the Tung-Sol roundplates. Tung-Sol blooms in the mid-range sometimes. NU is smoother and sweeter in the treble. I think I like the NU just a bit more than the Tung-Sol. Both a close tho. The pain thing about the NU is you get noisy ones. I had to cycle through a few to find this quiet set. These are 100% quiet. 

GE6AS7GA. Not concidered highly. However always been a favorite of mine. Synergy seems to work. Actually a fairly neutral tube. Doesn't do anything wrong. A little mid-range warmth that suits the NU. Side note NU's don't play nice with 6BL7 power tubes. Get very noisy. They play nice with these tho. Another reason why I'm using them.


----------



## a1uc

badas said:


> This is a stunning tube combo for the WA22.
> 
> TAK274B. I purchased a second TAK274B second hand with about 1000 hours on it. $250. I like it more than my other TAK274B. The extra hours obviously helps.
> 
> ...


 
 wow awesome price on the 274B


----------



## Badas

a1uc said:


> wow awesome price on the 274B




Yes. Very happy with that purchase. I wanted a spare. Sounds cleaner and smoother. My first one obviously needs more burn time. I've heard these need lots of time to settle. So I will roll my first one back in soon. 

I've also been playing around with Solid State rectification. With good results. I have more work to do on that and will report on it after I finish experimenting.


----------



## Badas

Some more Solid State mucking around.
  
 Tried one of these:
  

  

  
 Sounded the same as the other Solid State rectifier which is really nice. However it had the same over heat issue where at 2 hours the whole amp gets very hot.
  
 Then I got the Weber Copper Caps (ordered two).
  

  

  
 This is the bomb. The best sound. Everything is better than the best tube rectifier I own (Takasuzuki 274B). Sweeter clearer treble which produced more detail. I heard things in my favorite tracks that I hadn't heard before. Alison Krauss's New Favorite. Her voice croaks on some high notes. Never heard that before. Noise level is extremely low. Just not there at all. I've always had one of my drive tubes (TS RP 6C8G) that on occasion got a little buzzy/hum sound. Not a bit of noise from it last night. I've noted some rectifiers work better with the other tubes in the amp. Solid State kept them all dead quiet. I would guess good clean voltage keeps the other tubes happy. Holographics and soundstage sounded as good as the TAK274B. Bass deeper and clearer. Speed was excellent. Not as quick as the other SS rectifiers but better than the TAK274B. I'm not too worried about speed. It sounded good enough and I don't listen to a lot of lightning fast music.
 Music in general had more snap and sounded far more natural.
  
 With the amp on for three hours the amp was warm. No heat issues. Normal tube rectifier makes the amp hotter.
  
 I adore Weber's Copper Cap. May look odd however it sounds amazing.


----------



## kyle1010

This is madness! But I like it. Hey so did you get rid of your LCD-Xs?


----------



## Badas

kyle1010 said:


> This is madness! But I like it. Hey so did you get rid of your LCD-Xs?




Yes. I got the AudioQuest NightHawks and got addicted to them. The Hawks have the best treble I have heard from a HP. They sound like speakers. Not perfect as they bloom a bit in the upper bass notes. However overall I like them better than both of the Audeze HP's I owned.

So I sold the LCD-X and decided to just keep the LCD-3C and the Hawks.


----------



## kyle1010

badas said:


> Yes. I got the AudioQuest NightHawks and got addicted to them. The Hawks have the best treble I have heard from a HP. They sound like speakers. Not perfect as they bloom a bit in the upper bass notes. However overall I like them better than both of the Audeze HP's I owned.
> 
> So I sold the LCD-X and decided to just keep the LCD-3C and the Hawks.




Interesting. I'm thinking about switching to an LCD-3C, LCD-3F(2016 drivers), or selling my Xs and re-buying a pair of non-2016 driver Xs. The new drivers aren't doing it for me. Way better mid detail, better imaging, and smoother highs but the bass quantity is noticeably less and I can't deal with that for my electronic music. I feel as if I go with the 3C, I'll lose out on the sharp fazor imaging I'm used to with the Xs. Is that true? But I read that their bass output is on par with the Xs. The 2016 3F's graphs look like they have more sub bass than the original 3Fs so that might work too. Not sure what to do here. I might rent a 3F from the cable company library to do some A/B for a week or so. Hopefully they have the 2016 version. Any other advice?


----------



## cheeseeater

Way back in this thread there was talk of a Glenn who made 6F8G to 6SN7 adaptors. Is he still around our is there someone else now? I ordered some but they'll take forever to get here from China and they look cheap.


----------



## MIKELAP

cheeseeater said:


> Way back in this thread there was talk of a Glenn who made 6F8G to 6SN7 adaptors. Is he still around our is there someone else now? I ordered some but they'll take forever to get here from China and they look cheap.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn


----------



## Seamaster

mikelap said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/u/158007/2359glenn


 

 He is the guy, I know him since 2009, quality work every time.


----------



## cheeseeater

seamaster said:


> The price for my Mod cost $800 without shipping. That price is OFFICAL from Dan, same price as for everyone else too.



I realize the post I'm quoting was from almost 7 years ago but who is Dan and how can he be reached?


----------



## Seamaster

cheeseeater said:


> I realize the post I'm quoting was from almost 7 years ago but who is Dan and how can he be reached?


 
 http://www.modwright.com


----------



## Seamaster

Beware, their caps need long burn in time 400 hours


----------



## cheeseeater

I'm not going to have to worry about burning in those caps. Dan responded promptly but said he's only done one wa22 and doesn't have time these days.


----------



## cheeseeater

seamaster said:


> Matched tubes are better, but not critical. I can't hear any difference.







clayton sf said:


> This is a description of auto biasing on the PrimaLuna DiaLogue 2 amp.
> 
> 
> [T]his circuit monitors and adjusts bias automatically. Each power tube is monitored to stay in a peak operating range. Improved performance and better sound, with distortion reduced by 40% to 50% over conventional designs. No need for matched tubes. No bias adjustments. Ever. ...







tosehee said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is this true, that pairs don't need to be matched? Particularly the drivers? I've asked Woo about this and have yet to get a clear answer. There is an addiction ending in less than 6 hours of unmatched tubes.


----------



## MIKELAP

cheeseeater said:


> seamaster said:
> 
> 
> > Matched tubes are better, but not critical. I can't hear any difference.
> ...


 
 I never used matched pairs  except in the beginning because i didnt know better


----------



## cheeseeater

mikelap said:


> I never used matched pairs  except in the beginning because i didnt know better



Wow. That's a game changer.


----------



## Seamaster

mikelap said:


> I never used matched pairs  except in the beginning because i didnt know better




to a point


----------



## MIKELAP

seamaster said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > I never used matched pairs  except in the beginning because i didnt know better
> ...


 
 Dont need them in my amps


----------



## cheeseeater

mikelap said:


> Dont need them in my amps



I've just did the experiment for myself. I've never been able to compare matched vs unmatched pairs until now. I have two matched pair TS 5998. Both pair have beautiful holographic sound. So I swapped one tube from each making two unmatched pairs. The sound was still beautiful, with the same lushness. Just as dynamic. Just add detailed. The same tone. Everything was exactly the same except it wasn't holographic. I used the HD800S, my favorite can so far. I love it for its imaging. 
I then did the same comparison with the LCD 2 and could find no difference between matched and unmatched. 
For me it's a settled issue. Imaging and soundstage are very important to me. With the HD800S I could tell the difference between matched and unmatched if I ran blind trials. I am sure of it. I will only be buying matched tubes. For many phones it may not matter. As beautiful sounding as the Focal Utopia is, it has no imaging. If that were the sound I was looking for I'd save my money and buy unmatched pairs. Maybe...


----------



## cheeseeater

badas said:


> Funny you should mention. I did this last night.
> 
> Finally got around to running 2 6BL7 tubes off the single 6080 power tube circuit on the WA22. Using the adjustable position adapter. I was hoping the adapter had enough scope to have the tubes in line. It does.
> 
> ...


 
Are those Herbie's dampened? I notice you only have them on the driver. Is that because that particular tube needs them or do you always use them on drivers. Do you ever use them on power or rectifier tubes? I'm considering getting some but they seem pricey and wondering if/when I would use them. Is it just trial and error? What type should I get?


----------



## cheeseeater

badas said:


> It gets even stranger when working on tube synergy. I have two beautiful sets of NU 6F8G's. They produce a wonderfully sweet sound. In a number of ways I think they are nicer than my favourite driver the TSRP 6C8G. However the NU synergy is a nightmare. They do not behave with other tubes. With a lot of tubes they buzz (an actual audiable buzz). Switch the power tubes and everything is quiet again. Unfortunately they do not behave with the best power tubes. If they did it would be a compelling sound.


 
I'm using the NU 6F8G with the TS 5998 and the EML mesh. Sounds great. No issues with noise. Very nice.


----------



## Seamaster

Update as 1/13/2017, I don't believe this thread is still going after 8 years. I sold my WA22 and moved on to better amps and headphones. I did have fun with my WA22 that taught me many things in my audiophile life and I am still benefited from the knowledge I gained. My WA22 quickly got very expensive with all the tubes, but SQ wise, the investment to performance ratio was very very poor with WA22. Now, I am enjoying an ALO Audio continental dual mono amp with Mullard tubes much better than my maxed out WA22 at 1/3 of the total price. So, time to move on guys, there are many fishes in the sea......


----------



## Seamaster

Please delete, thanks


----------



## cheeseeater

badas said:


> Some more Solid State mucking around.
> 
> Tried one of these:
> 
> ...



Weber copper cap? Your best rectifier? Really? Even the tak274b? I am intrigued. What other rectifier have you compared it to?


----------



## cheeseeater

seamaster said:


> [COLOR=FF0000]Update as 1/13/2017[/COLOR], I don't believe this thread is still going after 8 years. I sold my WA22 and moved on to better amps and headphones. I did have fun with my WA22 that taught me many things in my audiophile life and I am still benefited from the knowledge I gained. My WA22 quickly got very expensive with all the tubes, but SQ wise, the investment to performance ratio was very very poor with WA22. Now, I am enjoying an ALO Audio continental dual mono amp with Mullard tubes much better than my maxed out WA22 at 1/3 of the total price. So, time to move on guys, there are many fishes in the sea......



I've been reading this thread on my coffee and lunch breaks and I finally finished today. I have learned so much from this thread and I thank you all. Seamaster, your English has improved so much in 8 years. I was planning on thanking you all today, it's just coincidence that on the same day that the person who started it admonishes us all to move on and leave WA22 behind. In the early days some posts pointed out that Seamaster made broad judgements about tubes and which tubes were better or best without taking into account that others have differing tastes, priorities or gear. With my LCD -2 I can't tell the difference between the lyr2 with 300.00 tubes, but with HD800S there is a world of difference. And I have some music that I will never listen to on anything but the WA22/HD800S combo and I have music I will never listen to with HD800S, only the LCD-2 will do. This thread has been exceptional for me because somehow it has managed to stay focused. Very informative. Thank you.


----------



## leftside

It's a good thread. Continue to post on here, or the main WA22 thread. I was doing a DAC shootout tonight with DACs costing between $2000 - $6500 and the WA22 was quite convincingly picking out the differences. Also had the turntable running, and again the WA22 was highlighting the differences. My preamp probably also helps a lot tho.


----------



## Seamaster

leftside said:


> It's a good thread. Continue to post on here, or the main WA22 thread. I was doing a DAC shootout tonight with DACs costing between $2000 - $6500 and the WA22 was quite convincingly picking out the differences. Also had the turntable running, and again the WA22 was highlighting the differences. My preamp probably also helps a lot tho.


 

 Let us know what is the outcome for the DAC shootout. Thanks.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

seamaster said:


> Update as 1/13/2017,* I don't believe this thread is still going after 8 years.* I sold my WA22 and moved on to better amps and headphones. I did have fun with my WA22 that taught me many things in my audiophile life and I am still benefited from the knowledge I gained. My WA22 quickly got very expensive with all the tubes, but SQ wise, the investment to performance ratio was very very poor with WA22. Now, I am enjoying an ALO Audio continental dual mono amp with Mullard tubes much better than my maxed out WA22 at 1/3 of the total price. So, time to move on guys, there are many fishes in the sea......


 
  
 WA22 is still in production today mostly unchanged aside from minor improvements. It proves that there's no need to change for the sake of change. We don't make disposable audio products.  
  
 Enjoy your WA22 everyone.


----------



## leftside

seamaster said:


> Let us know what is the outcome for the DAC shootout. Thanks.


 
 Will do!


----------



## Badas

cheeseeater said:


> Weber copper cap? Your best rectifier? Really? Even the tak274b? I am intrigued. What other rectifier have you compared it to?




I have 4 Mullard GZ32's, 2 Mullard GZ34's, 16 Brimar 5Z4GY's, 2 Tak 274B's, 4 United 596's and two Webber WU4G's. 

Webber is technically the best rectifier. Clean, detailed, more bass. Also runs very well in my WA22 (No noise, hum or buzz what so ever).

My next picks which gives a some what more musical presentation rather than technical would be the Brimar 5Z4GY and TAK 274B. Tak has the smoothest treble, Brimar is a little spitty in the treble however has a very addictive signature. A note on Tak274B. They make my transformer hum. All 274B's make my transformer hum. Which is strange as it is a 274B that Woo supplies with a new amp. With the Tak I found that after about 800 hours burn in the tube settled. All background hum and noise in HP's disappeared. My transformer still hums but it can't be heard in HP's. Tak takes a real long time to burn in however on the flip side they seem to last. One member used the Tak for 4000 hours and tested. The result was that it was testing like brand new. A few of us are starting to think we will get 15-20 years use out of the Tak. 

596 is very nice. However buzzes with my drivers. So I haven't played with them too much. I've teamed them up with the Tung-Sol roundplates 6SL7 drivers and the result was excellent. So another great rectifier. It just needs the right drivers.

Mullards are the bottom of the heap. Purely there if one day I truely get desperate. 

Just my opinion.


----------



## JackDiesel

Just got my WA22 and the first rectifier I threw in there was a Mullard GZ32, listened to a couple songs and then the WA22 shuts off and won't turn back on. Blew a fuse. After getting new fuses, put in stock tubes to troubleshoot and sure enough I have a bad Mullard. I doubt the eBay seller will give me a refund.

So now I'm rocking a Brimar 5Z4GY. My TS 6F8G round plates should be in before too long, can't wait to listen to those. But even as is, my god what an amp. Combined with my Spring R2R DAC, pure bliss.


----------



## leftside

R2R DAC's rock! Was listening to my new R2R DAC for most of yesterday afternoon! Great combo with the WA22 for sure. Still can't believe how quiet the WA22 is running these days with the right tube combo (Cossor 53KU + matched B65's (black base) + 4 * matched 6BL7's). Never thought a tube amp could have such a black background.
  
 I've also blown a couple of fuses with bad rectifiers.


----------



## JackDiesel

Should I try a Sophia 274B mesh for a different sound than the Brimar or go for another Mullard? Can't get over the pics of those meshes in the dark.


----------



## kyle1010

jackdiesel said:


> Should I try a Sophia 274B mesh for a different sound than the Brimar or go for another Mullard? Can't get over the pics of those meshes in the dark.




They are a stunning looking tube in the dark. The sound is very wide and airy but you lose a little of that euphonic liquid quality. Combined with 5998s it's good stuff though. Compared to the Brimar 5Z4GY it's definitely more open sounding. I have an extra brand new Sophia I can sell you at a head-fi buddy discount if you want.


----------



## kyle1010

Question guys. I just received a pair of 200 ohm LCD-4s and wow, marvelous sound but I have to turn the volume up to 3/4 to get those things going on my WA22 with stock tubes. I ordered some Sylvania metal base 6SN7s and a WE422a rectifier last night. Will either of those tubes give me a little gain boost over the stock tubes?


----------



## JackDiesel

kyle1010 said:


> They are a stunning looking tube in the dark. The sound is very wide and airy but you lose a little of that euphonic liquid quality. Combined with 5998s it's good stuff though. Compared to the Brimar 5Z4GY it's definitely more open sounding. I have an extra brand new Sophia I can sell you at a head-fi buddy discount if you want.




PMed.


----------



## leftside

kyle1010 said:


> Question guys. I just received a pair of 200 ohm LCD-4s and wow, marvelous sound but I have to turn the volume up to 3/4 to get those things going on my WA22 with stock tubes. I ordered some Sylvania metal base 6SN7s and a WE422a rectifier last night. Will either of those tubes give me a little gain boost over the stock tubes?


 
 I have LCD-3F and 3/4 volume would be uncomfortably loud. Try 5998 power tubes or 4 * 6BL7's. Also a higher gain driver tube such as an ECC33.
  
 The Sylvania metal base and WE422A are lovely tubes but won't make a difference to the volume.


----------



## kyle1010

leftside said:


> I have LCD-3F and 3/4 volume would be uncomfortably loud. Try 5998 power tubes or 4 * 6BL7's. Also a higher gain driver tube such as an ECC33.
> 
> The Sylvania metal base and WE422A are lovely tubes but won't make a difference to the volume.




Gotcha. I have the 5998s so I'll try those out. But yeah, I have the soon to be sold LCD-3C and 3/4 volume would hurt. But with the LCD-4s that part of the volume knob range is just starting to open them up. Not much headroom left which is a little concerning. I don't wanna have to step up to the WA22-SE when it comes out but I feel like I might be forced to. That's what I get for buying totl cans huh?


----------



## Seamaster

kyle1010 said:


> with the LCD-4s that part of the volume knob range is just starting to open them up. Not much headroom left which is a little concerning.


 
  
 WA22 had hard time to drive T1 V1.


----------



## leftside

Do you have a preamp? You can get some more gain there.
  
 Do you prefer the LCD4 over the LCD3? The LCD4 are on my shopping list for this year. And maybe the WA22SE.


----------



## kyle1010

leftside said:


> Do you have a preamp? You can get some more gain there.
> 
> Do you prefer the LCD4 over the LCD3? The LCD4 are on my shopping list for this year. And maybe the WA22SE.




I was just thinking that. I use a Mojo in line level out mode as dac. I suppose I could crank its volume up a few notches past that to get more gain out of the WA22 but is that bad for the input stage of the amp to receive a signal higher than line level?

Literally just got the 4s today and only listened briefly just to make sure they work. But I could immediately tell they were smoother and had more detail and sparkle in the upper treble. Mids sounded more refined and bass extended lower and hit harder. Soundstage and imaging tests will have to wait til I log some more time on them. So far I'm impressed though. 

I can already tell I'm gonna hear that WA22-SE w/ the 4s at canjam and fall in love. I'll be needing a bigger nightstand now cuz its footprint looks slightly larger than WA-22. Hopefully it accepts all my current rectifiers and driver tubes. Looks like it should right?


----------



## leftside

You're going to hate me for recommending another DAC. I've listened to the Mojo, and I like it so much I'm going to get one for my iPhone, but I'm not sure I'd use it as input to the WA22 driving the LCD4
  
 Let us know how it goes with the WA22SE at the canjam.


----------



## kyle1010

leftside said:


> You're going to hate me for recommending another DAC. I've listened to the Mojo, and I like it so much I'm going to get one for my iPhone, but I'm not sure I'd use it as input to the WA22 driving the LCD4
> 
> Let us know how it goes with the WA22SE at the canjam.




Will do. I'm probably going to pick up the new Hugo 2 at canjam for dac duty since Chord offers show discounts. It has an improved dac chip set, various filter modes, and most importantly small form factor for my nightstand. Anything up the ladder from that would be silly since I mainly listen to electronic music and the Mojo is already pretty mind blowing for that stuff.


----------



## leftside

Good stuff. I listen to a lot of electronic music. Don't underestimate what a decent system can do for all forms of electronic music. Everything from Massive Attack to banging techno. But, hey, I consider Chord Hugo + WA22 to be very decent. I've found the WA22 really likes a balanced connection, so also bear that in mind for one day in the future.


----------



## cheeseeater

Does anyone know how many hours to expect from Tung-Sol 5998?


----------



## Badas

cheeseeater said:


> Does anyone know how many hours to expect from Tung-Sol 5998?


 

 General rule is 5000 hours for tubes. Most important thing is to make sure the tubes are quiet and don't pop from new. Or else you will have a noisy tube for 5000 hours.


----------



## cheeseeater

badas said:


> General rule is 5000 hours for tubes. Most important thing is to make sure the tubes are quiet and don't pop from new. Or else you will have a noisy tube for 5000 hours.


 
What is this mythical 10,000 hour figure? Is that for the original tube application?


----------



## Badas

cheeseeater said:


> What is this mythical 10,000 hour figure? Is that for the original tube application?


 

 There is a theory. Headphone tube amps draw less power on certain tubes than what the tubes were designed for.
 So a mythical 10,000 hours gets talked about.

 From what I've heard that theory really is for drive tubes only. Not really power tubes.
 I wouldn't plan on tubes lasting 10,000 hours. 5,000 is more realistic.


----------



## cheeseeater

badas said:


> There is a theory. Headphone tube amps draw less power on certain tubes than what the tubes were designed for.
> 
> So a mythical 10,000 hours gets talked about.
> 
> ...



Then I'm set for drivers til I'm over 100 years old and for power tubes til I'm over 70!


----------



## Badas

cheeseeater said:


> Then I'm set for drivers til I'm over 100 years old and for power tubes til I'm over 70!


 

 Yeah! I've got 16 sets of everything I like.

 So I have 16 Brimar 5Z4GY's
 16 sets of Tung-Sol 6C8G's
 16 sets of GE 6AS7GA's
  
 All tubes have been run for a few hours quiet and tested.
  
 I figure 5000 hours per tube. 1000 hours per year. Tubes last 5 years. 16 sets = 80 years. That puts me at age 127. So I'm covered. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 By then I likely bored of tubes or deaf or most likely worm feed / dust.


----------



## abvolt

so your saying your children will inherit a great tube collection by then worth lots of $$..enjoy dude


----------



## cheeseeater

abvolt said:


> so your saying your children will inherit a great tube collection by then worth lots of $$..enjoy dude


 
Thanks. Though if I had kids, the most in gear my wife would let me have is Bose.


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> so your saying your children will inherit a great tube collection by then worth lots of $$..enjoy dude


 
  






 Yeah! Likely. I have two boys. One would likely keep them as he is keen on electronics. The other would take the ca$h.


cheeseeater said:


> Thanks. Though if I had kids, the most in gear my wife would let me have is Bose.


 
  




  
 I have two kids and this is what my wife lets me have:
  
 http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Badas


----------



## cheeseeater

badas said:


> Yeah! Likely. I have two boys. One would likely keep them as he is keen on electronics. The other would take the ca$h.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 At least you can cuddle with it.


----------



## abvolt

badas said:


> Yeah! Likely. I have two boys. One would likely keep them as he is keen on electronics. The other would take the ca$h.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow dude you've got an awesome looking place & all those toys sweet..enjoy


----------



## cheeseeater

cheeseeater said:


> At least you can cuddle with it.







badas said:


> Yeah! Likely. I have two boys. One would likely keep them as he is keen on electronics. The other would take the ca$h.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All I saw was the Mickey Mouse. Jesus, Badas. That place is badass.


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Wow dude you've got an awesome looking place & all those toys sweet..enjoy


 
  
  


cheeseeater said:


> All I saw was the Mickey Mouse. Jesus, Badas. That place is badass.


 

 Thanks Guys. The mancave gets well used.


----------



## leftside

We have the same taste in movies and a few similar tastes in tunes.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> We have the same taste in movies and a few similar tastes in tunes.




We both have great taste then.  Cultured.


----------



## kyle1010

Just received WE422a. Currently rocking it to some Lane 8 with the stock drivers, 5998s, and my new LCD-4s. Dude, that 422, out of control awesome liquid 3D sound. The LCD-4s are extremely sensitive to tube rolls btw. That super thin driver tells it like it is, wow. More detailed impressions and pics coming soon..


----------



## abvolt

kyle1010 said:


> Just received WE422a. Currently rocking it to some Lane 8 with the stock drivers, 5998s, and my new LCD-4s. Dude, that 422, out of control awesome liquid 3D sound. The LCD-4s are extremely sensitive to tube rolls btw. That super thin driver tells it like it is, wow. More detailed impressions and pics coming soon..


 
  
 I can only imagine how sweet that must sound..enjoy


----------



## cheeseeater

kyle1010 said:


> Just received WE422a. Currently rocking it to some Lane 8 with the stock drivers, 5998s, and my new LCD-4s. Dude, that 422, out of control awesome liquid 3D sound. The LCD-4s are extremely sensitive to tube rolls btw. That super thin driver tells it like it is, wow. More detailed impressions and pics coming soon..



Absolutely, enjoy! 
I'm wondering for myself though whether the LCD4 is so sensitive to tubes that one HAS to have a 422A for premium sound. It's so hard to find perfect pairs, if the LCD4 must have perfect pairs can those perfect pairs be found?


----------



## Khragon

Try solid state rectifier, I am guessing that it's better than any tube. I no longer have wa22 so can't say for sure.


----------



## cheeseeater

khragon said:


> Try solid state rectifier, I am guessing that it's better than any tube. I no longer have wa22 so can't say for sure.



 That is literally what I am doing right now. I am literally switching back and forth between solid state rectifier and tube.


----------



## kyle1010

cheeseeater said:


> Absolutely, enjoy!
> I'm wondering for myself though whether the LCD4 is so sensitive to tubes that one HAS to have a 422A for premium sound. It's so hard to find perfect pairs, if the LCD4 must have perfect pairs can those perfect pairs be found?



Thanks! And no not at all. In fact when I first received the 4s last week I ran them on the WA22 with all the stock tubes for a few days and they still sounded great. It's just that their sound changes pretty dramatically with each change of tubes. A lot more so than with my old LCD-Xs. I wouldn't say you HAVE to have a 422a, but just be aware that with LCD-4s you're REALLY hearing what each tube is capable of. Like even my Sophia Princess sounds better than before.


----------



## abvolt

kyle1010 said:


> Thanks! And no not at all. In fact when I first received the 4s last week I ran them on the WA22 with all the stock tubes for a few days and they still sounded great. It's just that their sound changes pretty dramatically with each change of tubes. A lot more so than with my old LCD-Xs. I wouldn't say you HAVE to have a 422a, but just be aware that with LCD-4s you're REALLY hearing what each tube is capable of. Like even my Sophia Princess sounds better than before.


 
  
 Dude I'm sitting here drooling I've wanted the 4's since their release just the 4k price sorry and coupled with the 422a wow your wa22 must sound just great..enjoy


----------



## kyle1010

abvolt said:


> Dude I'm sitting here drooling I've wanted the 4's since their release just the 4k price sorry and coupled with the 422a wow your wa22 must sound just great..enjoy




Thanks! I actually got them from a guy on here from Australia for 2800. Then sold my 3Cs immediately to make up some of the difference. That was the only way 4s were ever gonna happen for me, 4k is ridiculous. I do love them though. Every tube roll sounds like a new and insanely good headphone. Speaking of, I just got the metal base Sylvania 6SN7s in the mail today as per leftside's recommendation a while back. I hope they jive well with the 422a. But anyway like I said, detailed impressions and pics coming soon..


----------



## Badas

Speaking of HP's I'm finding the Ether Flows are a dream. They have broken in nicely. Match really well with both my amps and seem to suit all music. I don't miss Audeze at all and as I use to own two of them (LCD-3 and X) I thought I would.

Regarding the WA22 for kicks I threw in the cheap Brimar 5Z4GY into my WA22 a few weeks ago. Damn I like this tube. Sounds great with the Flows. I have no desire to take it out. So I guess cheap will do for now.


----------



## kyle1010

Oh..well then, that looks better than I expected.


----------



## Badas

^

Nice.


----------



## abvolt

badas said:


> Speaking of HP's I'm finding the Ether Flows are a dream. They have broken in nicely. Match really well with both my amps and seem to suit all music. I don't miss Audeze at all and as I use to own two of them (LCD-3 and X) I thought I would.
> 
> Regarding the WA22 for kicks I threw in the cheap Brimar 5Z4GY into my WA22 a few weeks ago. Damn I like this tube. Sounds great with the Flows. I have no desire to take it out. So I guess cheap will do for now.


 
  
 Awesome I'm still eyeing the flows the elear's that I just got are really sweet sounding but a pair of flows next xmas will probably happen, I'd also agree that brimar is very nice & one of my favorites..enjoy


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Awesome I'm still eyeing the flows the elear's that I just got are really sweet sounding but a pair of flows next xmas will probably happen, I'd also agree that brimar is very nice & one of my favorites..enjoy




Flows and Elears will be awesome. Maybe, maybe is what I'm thinking.

I've got some adjustments coming for the AQ NightHawks as well. So I should see what happens there.

I'm finally coming back to appreciating the WA22 again. I adore the V281 however I've learned to hear the differences between the two amps. WA22 being a little less detailed and relaxed. Qualities I like.


----------



## cheeseeater

badas said:


> Flows and Elears will be awesome. Maybe, maybe is what I'm thinking.
> 
> I've got some adjustments coming for the AQ NightHawks as well. So I should see what happens there.
> 
> I'm finally coming back to appreciating the WA22 again. I adore the V281 however I've learned to hear the differences between the two amps. WA22 being a little less detailed and relaxed. Qualities I like.



 Adjustments to the Nighthawks? What is this talk of adjustments? Frankly, I was surprised awhile back when I noticed a pair of nighthawks in one of your photos. From what I've read, they are nice but not at your level. Am I wrong? They are quite attractive looking and I was going to give them a listen next weekend at Canjam


----------



## Badas

cheeseeater said:


> Adjustments to the Nighthawks? What is this talk of adjustments? Frankly, I was surprised awhile back when I noticed a pair of nighthawks in one of your photos. From what I've read, they are nice but not at your level. Am I wrong? They are quite attractive looking and I was going to give them a listen next weekend at Canjam




I really, really like the Hawks. They are like a really comfy and light pair of LCD-2's. Probably the smoothest, silky, holographic HP's I have heard.

The adjustment is new ear pads that Skylar the designer has come up with. He calls them boost pads. They are suppose to elevate the treble a little. I'm suspecting that a slightly elevated treble would make the Hawks close to the Flows which is a real achievement.


----------



## cheeseeater

badas said:


> I really, really like the Hawks. They are like a really comfy and light pair of LCD-2's. Probably the smoothest, silky, holographic HP's I have heard.
> 
> The adjustment is new ear pads that Skylar the designer has come up with. He calls them boost pads. They are suppose to elevate the treble a little. I'm suspecting that a slightly elevated treble would make the Hawks close to the Flows which is a real achievement.



I've suffered some hearing loss. Nothing too extreme but enough and in such a way that the "holographic" is the most important characteristic for me. I have my own sense of detail but I sense that my sense of detail is not the same as someone's who has had no loss. I found the LCD-2 couldn't compete with the HD800S in holographics. I've heard the Ether but not the flow. I will very soon at can jam. But are you suggesting that the nighthawk with mod might be able to reach the holographics of HD800S?


----------



## Badas

cheeseeater said:


> I've suffered some hearing loss. Nothing too extreme but enough and in such a way that the "holographic" is the most important characteristic for me. I have my own sense of detail but I sense that my sense of detail is not the same as someone's who has had no loss. I found the LCD-2 couldn't compete with the HD800S in holographics. I've heard the Ether but not the flow. I will very soon at can jam. But are you suggesting that the nighthawk with mod might be able to reach the holographics of HD800S?




Too hard to say. HD800S is not my kind of HP. Too much treble. I understand the love tho. That treble gives the apearence of a larger soundstage which in turn gives the illusion of holographics. In my opinion from the times I have heard the HD800S it has too much soundstage.

Hawks standard are lush with great holographics. Just a little dull (dark). Flows are more lively without elevating treble. Extremely nice. I actually wouldn't want to change a thing. Hawks are my backups and they do suit some music over the Flows. Elevating the treble just a tad on the Hawks should be very interesting. I'm hoping it just takes a little dullness off and just remains a little darker than the Flows. If it does I will be set.


----------



## abvolt

badas said:


> Too hard to say. HD800S is not my kind of HP. Too much treble. I understand the love tho. That treble gives the apearence of a larger soundstage which in turn gives the illusion of holographics. In my opinion from the times I have heard the HD800S it has too much soundstage.
> 
> Hawks standard are lush with great holographics. Just a little dull (dark). Flows are more lively without elevating treble. Extremely nice. I actually wouldn't want to change a thing. Hawks are my backups and they do suit some music over the Flows. Elevating the treble just a tad on the Hawks should be very interesting. I'm hoping it just takes a little dullness off and just remains a little darker than the Flows. If it does I will be set.


 
  
 Spot on with the 800s couldn't have said it better my self, still haven't heard the hawks hope to soon..enjoy


----------



## cheeseeater

badas said:


> Too hard to say. HD800S is not my kind of HP. Too much treble. I understand the love tho. That treble gives the apearence of a larger soundstage which in turn gives the illusion of holographics. In my opinion from the times I have heard the HD800S it has too much soundstage.
> 
> Hawks standard are lush with great holographics. Just a little dull (dark). Flows are more lively without elevating treble. Extremely nice. I actually wouldn't want to change a thing. Hawks are my backups and they do suit some music over the Flows. Elevating the treble just a tad on the Hawks should be very interesting. I'm hoping it just takes a little dullness off and just remains a little darker than the Flows. If it does I will be set.







abvolt said:


> Spot on with the 800s couldn't have said it better my self, still haven't heard the hawks hope to soon..enjoy



When I tried the HD800 I couldn't get them off my head fast enough. For me everything you say held true. They were detailed and terrible. So when I saw the HD800-S I had no interest but I had some time to kill. And I found the HD800S was everything the HD800 was and everything it wasn't. It's now my favorite. Compared to the Elear, there were was so much lacking from the Elear. I mean literally. There were things I just couldn't hear with Elear that came through loud and clear on HD800-S. I tried Focal Utopia and it sounded great. But there was no soundstage. NONE. I don't even know what too much soundstage even means. To me that's like saying too real. To me. Other people have different emphasis. But when I'm in my buddy's basement and he's playing the drums, the sound from his cymbals float in the air. And the HD800-S take me closer to that "reality" than any I've heard so far. I'm looking for more soundstage, not less.


----------



## Badas

cheeseeater said:


> When I tried the HD800 I couldn't get them off my head fast enough. For me everything you say held true. They were detailed and terrible. So when I saw the HD800-S I had no interest but I had some time to kill. And I found the HD800S was everything the HD800 was and everything it wasn't. It's now my favorite. Compared to the Elear, there were was so much lacking from the Elear. I mean literally. There were things I just couldn't hear with Elear that came through loud and clear on HD800-S. I tried Focal Utopia and it sounded great. But there was no soundstage. NONE. I don't even know what too much soundstage even means. To me that's like saying too real. To me. Other people have different emphasis. But when I'm in my buddy's basement and he's playing the drums, the sound from his cymbals float in the air. And the HD800-S take me closer to that "reality" than any I've heard so far. I'm looking for more soundstage, not less.


 

 I think the HD800S is your HP then. I agree the HD800S is a lot better than the HD800. Slightly less treble and better bass.
 I don't think you will get a larger soundstage than the HD800 and HD800S.
  
 I loved the Utopia's.
  
 Have you tried some Chesky bineral recordings? They have massive soundstages.


----------



## kyle1010

This is random but do any of you ever just have a bad amp day with tube amps? As in all things equal from the last session it just doesn't sound as meltingly gorgeous? Bass is a little meh, euphonics aren't as good, sound is a little dry even if you have your most lush tubes in. But then maybe the next day it's all back. I remember having the same issue even back in my WA7tp days and wondering did I not let it warm up long enough, too long, or is the temperature in my room too cool, did I accidentally nudge a tube, idk. I definitely trust my ears that this isn't some brain trick, and I know tube amps are strange creatures, but I'm just wondering if maybe it's just me and I might be crazy.


----------



## Badas

kyle1010 said:


> This is random but do any of you ever just have a bad amp day with tube amps? As in all things equal from the last session it just doesn't sound as meltingly gorgeous? Bass is a little meh, euphonics aren't as good, sound is a little dry even if you have your most lush tubes in. But then maybe the next day it's all back. I remember having the same issue even back in my WA7tp days and wondering did I not let it warm up long enough, too long, or is the temperature in my room too cool, did I accidentally nudge a tube, idk. I definitely trust my ears that this isn't some brain trick, and I know tube amps are strange creatures, but I'm just wondering if maybe it's just me and I might be crazy.




Yeah. Tube amps can swing. I have noticed my WA22 sounds best on warm/hot days. Best when the amp is warm bordering on hot. 

However I think us humans swing more dramatically. Moods, headaches, tiredness or even blocked ears effect the sound the most.

Occasionally I note that a particular song didn't sound as great as previous. So I start that song again and raise the volume a tad. 9 times out of 10 the volume changes my impressions.


----------



## kyle1010

badas said:


> Yeah. Tube amps can swing. I have noticed my WA22 sounds best on warm/hot days. Best when the amp is warm bordering on hot.
> 
> However I think us humans swing more dramatically. Moods, headaches, tiredness or even blocked ears effect the sound the most.
> 
> Occasionally I note that a particular song didn't sound as great as previous. So I start that song again and raise the volume a tad. 9 times out of 10 the volume changes my impressions.




Yeah I agree it does sound best when the amp is warm or bordering on hot. Super strange that the temperature of the day can affect that "swing" in its sound. Ok good I'm not crazy then. How long do you let your WA22 warm up before sending it an audio signal? I feel like sometimes it sounds better with less warm up time. And it hits full euphonics at around 1-2hrs. Closer to 2hrs. Same for you?


----------



## Badas

kyle1010 said:


> Yeah I agree it does sound best when the amp is warm or bordering on hot. Super strange that the temperature of the day can affect that "swing" in its sound. Ok good I'm not crazy then. How long do you let your WA22 warm up before sending it an audio signal? I feel like sometimes it sounds better with less warm up time. And it hits full euphonics at around 1-2hrs. Closer to 2hrs. Same for you?




I'm not fussy. I listen and enjoy straight from cold.

My understanding is warm up should be with music playing. Not at full volume but about 60-80% listening volume.
There should always be a load on tube amps. Either HP's or speakers.

Yes. My estimate of best sound quality is 1.5-2 hours.


----------



## abvolt

I agree the best sq for me is when my amp is warm like Badas said 1-2 hours, although most of the time I seem to only get a 30 or 40 minute warm up can't wait you know how that goes..enjoy all


----------



## qrtas

I know you posted this a while back. I own the woo wa22, but I am very curious to know what headphones you are using with the ALO Audio continental dual mono amp. I am very happy with my setup. However I would love to downsize it if the sound is not compromised. 

Currently I have the woo wa22, schiit jotunheim snd audeze lcd3f.


----------



## Seamaster

qrtas said:


> I know you posted this a while back. I own the woo wa22, but I am very curious to know what headphones you are using with the ALO Audio continental dual mono amp. I am very happy with my setup. However I would love to downsize it if the sound is not compromised.
> 
> Currently I have the woo wa22, schiit jotunheim snd audeze lcd3f.




I don't own anything serious any more, and just sold my HD800 last month. I am using TH-X00 Ebony to watch movies while my family are asleep, am mainly listening to speakers now days. My Tannoy can act like giant headphones when placed next to my chair, so far no HP can beat that, haha. I do like ALO ADM quite bit better than WA22 because of it has better transparency, speed and bass while still has tube sound.


----------



## qrtas

seamaster said:


> I don't own anything serious any more, and just sold my HD800 last month. I am using TH-X00 Ebony to watch movies while my family are asleep, am mainly listening to speakers now days. My Tannoy can act like giant headphones when placed next to my chair, so far no HP can beat that, haha. I do like ALO ADM quite bit better than WA22 because of it has better transparency, speed and bass while still has tube sound.




Thanks for your reply. The ALO amp looks very interesting. I'll keep it in my radar.


----------



## kyle1010

Quick and dirty impressions of LCD-4s with my newest tubes. All combined with TS5998s:

Western 422a-Lush and soulful with tons of holographics. Tonality is basically perfect. My only gripe is it doesn't have the weight and impact I always long for. Even with the 5998s the bass is a little flat for my tastes. I'm gonna hang on to it though for use with my future more powerful WA22-SE. See if the extra juice will get it to kick a little harder. Then it'll be an end game tube.

Sylvania 6SN7 metal base- These are interesting. Overall they give a boost in detail over the stock tubes, but they also push very highly textured mids a little more forward and in your face like how my LCD-Xs sounded. They take for-ever to warm up and honestly I never make it to the 2hr mark listening to them because they, like the 422a, don't really have much weight in the low end and I can't deal with that. But I'll keep them around for the WA22-SE as well. Who knows, those quad power tubes might help.

I've kinda settled in on the Sophia Princess with stock drivers and 5998s as my daily drivers with the LCD-4s. That's the only combo that gets the bass right. The Sophia still sounds a little dry, but after an hour or so heating up its euphonics keep me happy enough. WA22 can certainly drive the 4s acceptably, but with every listen I can almost hear these cans begging for more power. i shoulda known what I was getting into lol.


----------



## leftside

Do you use a preamp? What's your DAC? If I have my current preamp with DAC at 55 volume (out of 100) and the WA22 at 1 o clock I find it's almost too loud.
  
 Edit: I see you have a Chord Mojo. A $4000 set of headphones and a $2000 - $3000 headphone amp deserve a $3000 - $4000 DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Come join us over here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/727918/techno-electro-underground-beats


----------



## kyle1010

leftside said:


> Do you use a preamp? What's your DAC? If I have my current preamp with DAC at 55 volume (out of 100) and the WA22 at 1 o clock I find it's almost too loud.
> 
> Edit: I see you have a Chord Mojo. A $4000 set of headphones and a $2000 - $3000 headphone amp deserve a $3000 - $4000 DAC :basshead:
> 
> ...




You're absolutely right dude. I just got the 4s a few weeks ago, so the DAC upgrade is coming trust me. I'm waiting for CanJam SoCal in the beginning of April so I can drive up there and grab the new Chord Hugo 2 at show discount. That should do the trick. Early reviews including Jude's have already praised it as a portable DAVE as far as sq. Obviously not quite DAVE level but close. Plus it has 4 filter options for sound shaping. Soo yeah I'm sold. 

But for right now I only run the Mojo line level out. Not sure if cranking it up higher will eventually damage the input stage of the WA22 as I'm sure it was designed to only receive line level signal. Idk. You also have 3F's which aren't greedy little power hungry brats like the 4s are.

Did somebody say techno??  Oh I'll come join you for sure.


----------



## leftside

Yeah one thing at a time. Gets really expensive very quickly.


----------



## qrtas

kyle1010 said:


> You're absolutely right dude. I just got the 4s a few weeks ago, so the DAC upgrade is coming trust me. I'm waiting for CanJam SoCal in the beginning of April so I can drive up there and grab the new Chord Hugo 2 at show discount. That should do the trick. Early reviews including Jude's have already praised it as a portable DAVE as far as sq. Obviously not quite DAVE level but close. Plus it has 4 filter options for sound shaping. Soo yeah I'm sold.
> 
> But for right now I only run the Mojo line level out. Not sure if cranking it up higher will eventually damage the input stage of the WA22 as I'm sure it was designed to only receive line level signal. Idk. You also have 3F's which aren't greedy little power hungry brats like the 4s are.
> 
> Did somebody say techno??  Oh I'll come join you for sure.


I

Are you using the wa22 with the lcd4 unbalanced or unbalanced? I don't have the LCD 4, but I have the LCD 3F and driving the the headphone balanced from the wa22 makes a huge difference on dynamics and impact. I don't think you need to spend a fortune on a DAC. The schiit jotunheim DAC work wonderfully with the woo wa22.


----------



## kyle1010

qrtas said:


> I
> 
> Are you using the wa22 with the lcd4 unbalanced or unbalanced? I don't have the LCD 4, but I have the LCD 3F and driving the the headphone balanced from the wa22 makes a huge difference on dynamics and impact. I don't think you need to spend a fortune on a DAC. The schiit jotunheim DAC work wonderfully with the woo wa22.




Unbalanced from the Mojo. I'd love to go balanced at some point but I need a very small form factor DAC for my nightstand where the WA22 lives as well. Also, no offense, but I've listened to Schiit dacs all the way up to Yggdrasil and I'm just not a fan. I'll keep your advice in mind though as I'm DAC shopping at Canjam. Maybe something balanced will pull me away from the Hugo 2. Idk though I really love Chord sound.


----------



## qrtas

kyle1010 said:


> Unbalanced from the Mojo. I'd love to go balanced at some point but I need a very small form factor DAC for my nightstand where the WA22 lives as well. Also, no offense, but I've listened to Schiit dacs all the way up to Yggdrasil and I'm just not a fan. I'll keep your advice in mind though as I'm DAC shopping at Canjam. Maybe something balanced will pull me away from the Hugo 2. Idk though I really love Chord sound.


 
 No offense at all   I think once you go balanced with your wa22 and Audeze lcd4, you'll be in heaven. No matter what balanced DAC you'll end up getting


----------



## Badas

qrtas said:


> No offense at all   I think once you go balanced with your wa22 and Audeze lcd4, you'll be in heaven. No matter what balanced DAC you'll end up getting


 
  
 Hhmmm. See I think the DAC is one of the most important pieces of the puzzle. I got a far better result from a DAC change than I ever did from changing amps or going to balanced (I just can't hear a difference between balanced or unbalanced).
  
 The actual HP's and the DAC are the most important thing to me.


----------



## kyle1010

badas said:


> Hhmmm. See I think the DAC is one of the most important pieces of the puzzle. I got a far better result from a DAC change than I ever did from changing amps or going to balanced (I just can't hear a difference between balanced or unbalanced).
> 
> The actual HP's and the DAC are the most important thing to me.




Yeah that's what I'm thinking, but with high impedance HPs like the 4s they definitely need more power to really show what they can do. That's why I figured I'd go with the baby DAVE..Hugo 2..for all the extreme detail and transient response, then eventually send that through a powerhouse like WA22-SE which not only will (barely)fit on my nightstand but still uses some of my existing tubes. 

I know these are pricey options but I usually find ways to get decent deals. My 4s were only 2800 used in perfect condition..minus the 1000 I sold my 3Cs for. If there's a will there's a way


----------



## qrtas

badas said:


> Hhmmm. See I think the DAC is one of the most important pieces of the puzzle. I got a far better result from a DAC change than I ever did from changing amps or going to balanced (I just can't hear a difference between balanced or unbalanced).
> 
> The actual HP's and the DAC are the most important thing to me.




I thought you needed more power. The wa22 balanced will give you more power. The DAC is extremely important, but you are underutilizing the wa22 in terms of power if you are using it single ended.


----------



## kyle1010

qrtas said:


> I thought you needed more power. The wa22 balanced will give you more power. The DAC is extremely important, but you are underutilizing the wa22 in terms of power if you are using it single ended.




Badas is this true?


----------



## Badas

qrtas said:


> I thought you needed more power. The wa22 balanced will give you more power. The DAC is extremely important, but you are underutilizing the wa22 in terms of power if you are using it single ended.


 

 I have wired my WA22 (remember there is various model changes) previously in both balanced and unbalanced. Using a HP in the balanced 4 pin XLR I switched the toggle at the back between the two. To my ears there was no difference in sound quality or volume.


----------



## abvolt

Badas I gotta comment on that link in your signature wow what a fun room that must be bet the family loves it you've sure got some great looking gear very nice..enjoy


----------



## Badas

Thanks Abvolt.
  
 The room gets well used. I got a new toy for the family this week.


  
 We take it out for a ride for the first time this weekend.


----------



## abvolt

Oh my that does look fun only wish I was a little younger well maybe a lot younger for that one nearing 7 decades myself..enjoy


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> Oh my that does look fun only wish I was a little younger well maybe a lot younger for that one nearing 7 decades myself..enjoy


 
  
 I wonder if I can get a tube amp and HP's that will work while I'm riding? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			











 
  
 It might be asking a bit too much.


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> Oh my that does look fun only wish I was a little younger well maybe a lot younger for that one nearing 7 decades myself..enjoy


 
 I know exactly what you mean ,had motorcycles since the 1973 i quit 3 years ago, plagued with back problems ,  it was fun while it lasted and it didnt kill that's a plus lol. Yes definitely enjoy .


----------



## leftside

I get more power in balanced mode. Both from the amp and from the DAC.


----------



## abvolt

My current tube combo is absolutely great sounding, quad salvania 6bl7 flat ribbed plates, mullard ecc31's, 596..enjoy


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> My current tube combo is absolutely great sounding, quad salvania 6bl7 flat ribbed plates, mullard ecc31's, 596..enjoy




That would sound good. Enjoy back.


----------



## kyle1010

abvolt said:


> My current tube combo is absolutely great sounding, quad salvania 6bl7 flat ribbed plates, mullard ecc31's, 596..enjoy




Can you describe how it sounds? Pics?


----------



## abvolt

kyle1010 said:


> Can you describe how it sounds? Pics?


 
  
 My wa22 with the quad 6BL7's flat ribbed plates along with the mighty 596 rectifier and a must have imo any mullard eccxx, the one I'm currently using is the ecc31 which is soo smooth with a deep bass that's amazing, the 596 rectifier is really a must have if you haven't heard one before & their price is well worth it.
  
  A single 6BL7's sq is simply great but 4 wow I've noticed a big difference in sq. This is the first time I've removed my ts 5998's I'm not saying the quad 6BL7's are better than the ts 5998's but it sure is close and so much more affordable if you haven't tried quad 6BL7's you're missing out. I not much of an audiophile but this combo truly is fine sounding..enjoy


----------



## MIKELAP

Also using 596 along with 5998 and 6201 as drivers with adapters


----------



## leftside

I'll join the party. Here are pics of my tube combos from the WA22 thread:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/826386/woo-audio-wa22-amp-owner-unite


----------



## abvolt

Is that a 53ku  sorry eyes no good any more, if so must be very sweet never heard that rectifier cool..


----------



## leftside

Yes it is.They are not super expensive and they do show up every now and then.


----------



## Jhors2

badas said:


> Some more Solid State mucking around.
> 
> Tried one of these:
> 
> ...


 
 Is there a reason you decided on the 5U4GB instead of the WS1?  Just looking on their site it looks like they recommend the WS1 for "hi-fi amps" and only recommend the 5U4GB for guitar amps.


----------



## Badas

jhors2 said:


> Is there a reason you decided on the 5U4GB instead of the WS1?  Just looking on their site it looks like they recommend the WS1 for "hi-fi amps" and only recommend the 5U4GB for guitar amps.


 

 There is not much difference electronically between them. I went WU4G as it is closest to a 5U4GB which the WA22 circuit is designed for. WU4G has been said that it is closest to a tube sound as far as pacing/speed goes. WS1 will have a faster pace. More SS type of sound.
 A slower more relaxed pace is more my taste.
 If you contact Weber and ask they will also recommend WU4G. They designed it as a drop in replacement for 5U4GB.
  
 Either will be a good choice.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

We have a small supply of NOS (new old stock) Tung Sol 5998 on hand right now. Send an email to info@wooaudio.com if you're interested.


----------



## Badas

hifiguy528 said:


> We have a small supply of NOS (new old stock) Tung Sol 5998 on hand right now. Send an email to info@wooaudio.com if you're interested.


 

 What price???


----------



## abvolt

Woo will want top $ for that tube..


----------



## Jhors2

badas said:


> There is not much difference electronically between them. I went WU4G as it is closest to a 5U4GB which the WA22 circuit is designed for. WU4G has been said that it is closest to a tube sound as far as pacing/speed goes. WS1 will have a faster pace. More SS type of sound.
> A slower more relaxed pace is more my taste.
> If you contact Weber and ask they will also recommend WU4G. They designed it as a drop in replacement for 5U4GB.
> 
> Either will be a good choice.


 
 Thanks Badas!
 I ordered one, I'll post some impressions when I get my hands on it.  Currently using a Brimar 5Z4GY


----------



## attmci

$45 plus $450 shipping to you. LOL


----------



## abvolt

Oh Yeah very true..


----------



## Jhors2

I can echo badas's comments about the copper cap.  It is quite exquisite.  Definitely delivers music really effortlessly, with more detail than the Brimar I was using by far, and better instrument separation.  Thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## abvolt

I've not yet tried the Weber copper cap WU4G is this thing really worth giving a try? thanks..enjoy guys


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> I've not yet tried the Weber copper cap WU4G is this thing really worth giving a try? thanks..enjoy guys




Yeah it is. 

Think 596 with more bass and better soundfield.


----------



## abvolt

badas said:


> Yeah it is.
> 
> Think 596 with more bass and better soundfield.


 
 Awesome I'll be getting one thanks..


----------



## kyle1010

Can anyone comment on WE422a vs. Tak 274b? What's the difference in SQ? Worth the upgrade? I really feel like I've maxed out my WA22. The sound from the WE422a/Sylvania metal base 6SN7/TS 5998/LCD-4 combo is straight up magic. I could live with this system indefinitely. But, greedy. Besides, when I step up to WA22-SE I can still use all my rectifiers and driver tubes. So yeah, what's that Tak 274b like?


----------



## Contrails

I have heard both but didn't get enough time to really figure out the differences. Also, there were other variations in regards to DAC, Power and Driver tubes. 

In saying that I would say that the Tak 274b is a very very good tube. You won't go wrong with it. It would be a minuscule upgrade from a WE422a. Although the WE422a does require an adapter (PM Glenn2359).

With the LCD-X I prefer using WE422a but with my speakers and running the WA22 in preamp mode I prefer using the GZ34 metal base. Power tubes are 6BL7 and 6su7gty are drivers.


----------



## kyle1010

contrails said:


> I have heard both but didn't get enough time to really figure out the differences. Also, there were other variations in regards to DAC, Power and Driver tubes.
> 
> In saying that I would say that the Tak 274b is a very very good tube. You won't go wrong with it. It would be a minuscule upgrade from a WE422a. Although the WE422a does require an adapter (PM Glenn2359).
> 
> With the LCD-X I prefer using WE422a but with my speakers and running the WA22 in preamp mode I prefer using the GZ34 metal base. Power tubes are 6BL7 and 6su7gty are drivers.




Ahhh ok roger that. Not gonna pay that much for a minuscule upgrade. DAC upgrade is happening next weekend. Mojo to Hugo 2. I can hardly even imagine better sound than Mojo through the WA22 with my NOS tubes. Going from a $500 dac to a $2200 one might actually make me go crosseyed whilst listening. As Samuel L. Jackson so eloquently put it in Jurassic Park, "Hold on to ya butts."


----------



## Contrails

Is the Hugo 2 balanced? There's also the Kitsune Holo 3 Spring DAC which is getting a lot of attention lately.


----------



## kyle1010

contrails said:


> Is the Hugo 2 balanced? There's also the Kitsune Holo 3 Spring DAC which is getting a lot of attention lately.




Nope, it's SE. That Kitsune looks awesome but it's too big. I need Hugo 2 for its small footprint to fit on my nightstand where the WA22 and LCD-4s live as well. Balanced isn't in the cards this round of upgrades unfortunately, but I doubt Hugo 2 is gonna suck from lacking that feature. 

I'm a little bummed though cuz my 4s came with a dual 3 pin Alo Audio reference cable I've been dying to test out. I'll probably bring it to CanJam next weekend and plug it into somebody's balanced rig.


----------



## BillinSF

I'm a head-fi and WA22 newbie.  I read this post on the Head-Fi "The Reference 6SN7 Thread" re the RCA gray glass 6SN7GT.  This thread is from 2005-6.
  
  
 RCA produced a grey glass 6SN7GT with side micas straight through from 1942 until at least 1956, and there is a great deal of sonic variation among tubes within that period. None are bad. But the early one sound far better. This is one of my favorite 6SN7's, but let's face it - it is very warm and lush, has a huge soundstage and huge bloom - not for Cary owners (for example) whose amps are already tubby sounding. In a good, neutral tube amp - which is what a good tube amp is, actually - this tube is a king. But be VERY careful about the vintage. Early ones have the magic. Later ones are good but no moondust.”
  
 So I had to go find some.  In the mail to me are a pair of 1943 tubes.  Can't wait. I'll post my impressions.
  
 This will be my first "tube roll." 
  
 Anyone have experience with these?


----------



## kyle1010

billinsf said:


> I'm a head-fi and WA22 newbie.  I read this post on the Head-Fi "The Reference 6SN7 Thread" re the RCA gray glass 6SN7GT.  This thread is from 2005-6.
> 
> 
> RCA produced a grey glass 6SN7GT with side micas straight through from 1942 until at least 1956, and there is a great deal of sonic variation among tubes within that period. None are bad. But the early one sound far better. This is one of my favorite 6SN7's, but let's face it - it is very warm and lush, has a huge soundstage and huge bloom - not for Cary owners (for example) whose amps are already tubby sounding. In a good, neutral tube amp - which is what a good tube amp is, actually - this tube is a king. But be VERY careful about the vintage. Early ones have the magic. Later ones are good but no moondust.”
> ...




Haven't heard em but you've piqued my interest with the characteristics you say they have. I'm beyond happy with my Sylvania metal base 6SN7's, but tube rolling is so fun and interesting. So yeah let us know asap how they perform


----------



## abvolt

billinsf said:


> I'm a head-fi and WA22 newbie.  I read this post on the Head-Fi "The Reference 6SN7 Thread" re the RCA gray glass 6SN7GT.  This thread is from 2005-6.
> 
> 
> RCA produced a grey glass 6SN7GT with side micas straight through from 1942 until at least 1956, and there is a great deal of sonic variation among tubes within that period. None are bad. But the early one sound far better. This is one of my favorite 6SN7's, but let's face it - it is very warm and lush, has a huge soundstage and huge bloom - not for Cary owners (for example) whose amps are already tubby sounding. In a good, neutral tube amp - which is what a good tube amp is, actually - this tube is a king. But be VERY careful about the vintage. Early ones have the magic. Later ones are good but no moondust.”
> ...


 
  
 Awesome & congrats on your new headamp, I've had the rca gray glass 6sn7gt's very nice sounding when you can be sure to give a try to say some mullards ecc31's32,33,35's just the finest sounding driver tubes $ can buy..enjoy


----------



## Contrails

I have the ECC31 and using adapters to use in the WA22.  But the right tube flashes from time to time and pops.  Bad tube perhaps?
  
 I am in love at the moment with the GZ34 metal base, TS 6SU7GTY black glass and 6BL7.  Absolutely beautiful sounding.  Detailed yet very Euphonic.  This is a better pairing than the WE422, TS 6SU7GTY and 5998, IMO.


----------



## MIKELAP

i think it would be interesting to see what tubes with adapters have you guys been using in your WA22 .as  power tubes,  rectifier  or drivers ?


----------



## kyle1010

mikelap said:


> i think it would be interesting to see what tubes with adapters have you guys been using in your WA22 .as  power tubes,  rectifier  or drivers ?




You probably wanna talk to @badas about that.


----------



## Badas

kyle1010 said:


> You probably wanna talk to @badas about that.


 

 I've only tried 6SN7 to 6F8G driver adapters and twin 6BL7's in the power.

  
 I haven't tried and rectifier or exotic driver adapters.


----------



## BillinSF

billinsf said:


> I'm a head-fi and WA22 newbie.  I read this post on the Head-Fi "The Reference 6SN7 Thread" re the RCA gray glass 6SN7GT.  This thread is from 2005-6.
> 
> 
> RCA produced a grey glass 6SN7GT with side micas straight through from 1942 until at least 1956, and there is a great deal of sonic variation among tubes within that period. None are bad. But the early one sound far better. This is one of my favorite 6SN7's, but let's face it - it is very warm and lush, has a huge soundstage and huge bloom - not for Cary owners (for example) whose amps are already tubby sounding. In a good, neutral tube amp - which is what a good tube amp is, actually - this tube is a king. But be VERY careful about the vintage. Early ones have the magic. Later ones are good but no moondust.”
> ...


 
  
 1943 RCA Gray Glass tubes arrived.  Swapped out the Sylvania 6SN7GT drivers that were the Woo upgrade.  The 2005 quote above is spot on.  The soundstage was awesome.  The bass through my Senn. 800S has never sounded more present and correct.  The treble gets compressed a bit and the not so precise but it's all good. 
  
 I like horn bands like Tower of Power and modern music with orchestral instrument accompaniment and these tubes delivered the "tube" sound I was looking for out of he Woo.  Now I get the  tube rolling" thing.  I was as relaxed as if I was lying on a velvet couch in a New Orleans bawdy house. 
  
 The Sylvania is a better tube in terms of detail, but these are gonna make me smile for years with their warmth and soundstage.
  
 -Bill


----------



## drbobbybones

Just heard the Tung Sol 5998 POWER tubes at the Woo Audio room at Can Jam SoCal. That may have been the best driver tube I have ever heard. I ordered a pair from Jack Wu on the spot. This should hold me over until I get a WA33 

Edit: I meant POWER tubes, not driver tubes.


----------



## abvolt

I do agree these are one of my favorites..


----------



## kyle1010

drbobbybones said:


> Just heard the Tung Sol 5998 driver tubes at the Woo Audio room at Can Jam SoCal. That may have been the best driver tube I have ever heard. I ordered a pair from Jack Wu on the spot. This should hold me over until I get a WA33




Yeah those are legit. How bout that WA33 though?! I mean, it had holy grail tubes installed and an insane dac hooked up to it along with many other pricey upgrades, but honestly..to my ears..I think it sounded better than the Sennheiser HE-1 system. Granted at the end of the day both systems were within +\- $4k of eachother but IMO the Woo x Abyss phi combo wins hands down. Incredible.


----------



## Contrails

I thought 5998 are power tubes...? Interesting to see what 6sn7 type were being used though. And what DAC was connected.


----------



## drbobbybones

kyle1010 said:


> Yeah those are legit. How bout that WA33 though?! I mean, it had holy grail tubes installed and an insane dac hooked up to it along with many other pricey upgrades, but honestly..to my ears..I think it sounded better than the Sennheiser HE-1 system. Granted at the end of the day both systems were within +\- $4k of eachother but IMO the Woo x Abyss phi combo wins hands down. Incredible.




Yes, I agree--the WA33 was the most stunning thing at the show, after the Smyth Realizer A16. It made the Utopia, the Eikon, and the Abyss Ph do things I have never heard. Gotta get one.


----------



## kyle1010

contrails said:


> I thought 5998 are power tubes...? Interesting to see what 6sn7 type were being used though. And what DAC was connected.




Sadly, I only got a quick peak at the dac so I don't know the model, but I was told by the Woo guys it costs $30k. But whatever, that system outshined the HE-1 system with no need for a silly appointment to listen to it for 10 minutes with some dude picking the tracks for you. Bravo to Woo Audio for showing them how it's done even if a little trickery was at play. It's all in good fun!


----------



## Contrails

Nice. I must put the effort in to fly over one day for canjam events.

Did you get some pics btw?

On a side note: the 6BL7s are coming out of my system. I just put the 7236s in and oh man. The amp was sounding slow and too lush with the 6BL7. The 7236 sounded more correct in regards to speed and better bass punch of course. The Highs also didn't sound harsh. And then I inserted the Bendix 6080wb slotted. What a tube! Faster, more dynamic and more detailed. Pure solid state. No wonder some people have labeled this tube to be dry sounding. I am using the Metal Gz34. Might put the WE422a to add some extra sweetness. But for rock/electronic, metal Gz34 and Bendix slotted is a perfect combo.


----------



## drbobbybones

Finally have a decent amount of burn in on my Tung Sol 5998 power tubes. These are the best power tubes I have ever heard for the WA22. They are authoritative and powerful, but with incredible detail and finesse. No wonder Woo Audio was showing the WA22 with these babies at CanJam SoCal. 

I think my current setup is close to as good as I'll get. Tung Sol 5998, Sylvania 6SN7GT, and PS Vane 274B replica. I have a USAF 596 as well, but I am waiting on my adapter. After that, I think I'm done until I get a WA33


----------



## Contrails

How do you rate the Slys 6sn7gt?


----------



## drbobbybones

contrails said:


> How do you rate the Slys 6sn7gt?




Well, compared to stock they are much better. The stock ones are tinny and flat in comparison. But that's the only comparison I can make. But Woo was using the same tubes in the WA22 demo they had at CanJam, so I think that's one rabbit hole I don't plan on diving down unless someone figures out a new combo that is mind blowing. 

I figure if Woo was using them for the demo, they must be able to show the WA22 in their best light. 

Here's a pic of mine right now--sorry about the cables in the back. Gotta consolidate now that my setup is near complete. And I just dusted my setup after seeing this pic


----------



## BillinSF

Some folks asked what the DAC was in the Woo WA33 setup at SoCal Canjam.  I found the answer on another site (audiobacon.net).  EMM Labs DA2 DAC.
  
  
http://www.emmlabs.com/html/audio/dac2/dac2.html


----------



## leftside

You should also try the ECC33 or ECC35. Or if you don't mind an adapter the ECC31. I'd also recommend the ECC32 but finding a good pair of those in decent shape at a decent price is tough.


----------



## Contrails

Thanks leftside, I tried the Ecc31 and it's a very good tube indeed. But the sound is very very similar to a 6su7gty. I have heard the Slyvania being slighty neutral and hence I am wanting to try them.


----------



## drbobbybones

Okay, I think I've finally hit my sonic nirvana with the WA22.  Here goes:
  
 Tung Sol 5998 power tubes
 Sylvania 6SN7GT drivers
 USAF 596 rectifier with adapter
  
 Funny, this is exactly the combo that Woo had at CanJam.  Now I get why.  This is the most transparent and holographic I have ever heard my Utopias and my HD800's in my life.  It is very similar to the transparency of the DAVE alone, except with better bass and midrange--both of which are problematic for those cans out of the DAVE.  I think it actually expands the soundstage of the Utopias as well somehow (???).  It essentially "fixes" the flaws of both headphones perfectly to my ears.  
  
 So basically, the WA22 and the above tube setup is like listening to the DAVE, except if the DAVE went to the gym for 8 hours daily and ate 5000 calories a day.  Kinda like if the DAVE turned into The Rock:


----------



## Contrails

Pics or didn't happen!


----------



## drbobbybones

contrails said:


> Pics or didn't happen!






How's that? And yes, I am working on the wire situation. Just got cable ties.


----------



## kyle1010

badas said:


> I've only tried 6SN7 to 6F8G driver adapters and twin 6BL7's in the power.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't tried and rectifier or exotic driver adapters.




Badas, I think I finally understand why you like the V281 so much. Heard it with AQ Nightowls at CanJam and did not want to take those things off! Wow that amp sounds good. It doesn't do crazy textured 3D euphonics like the WA22 with appropriate tubes, but man you just wanna sit back, relax, and enjoy it. You're a man of good taste I gotta admit.


----------



## Badas

kyle1010 said:


> Badas, I think I finally understand why you like the V281 so much. Heard it with AQ Nightowls at CanJam and did not want to take those things off! Wow that amp sounds good. It doesn't do crazy textured 3D euphonics like the WA22 with appropriate tubes, but man you just wanna sit back, relax, and enjoy it. You're a man of good taste I gotta admit.




Thanks dude. I'm listening to it now with NightHawks. I think it is my favourite combo.


----------



## BillinSF (Apr 27, 2017)

Oh my poor wallet.

I just traded e-mails with the guys at Woo with a question about the WE 274A rectifier. Mike sent me a gorgeous photo on one mounted on a WA33 (Head-Fi won't let me post photos or I'd share).  It turns out that Jack has a small box of them (NOS) plus adapters.  They are not cheap, but are a true Holy Grail.

Anyone have an impression of these?


----------



## Contrails

Deleted.


----------



## kyle1010

I know this thread isn't so active these days, but I had one of those life changing listening sessions last night with the LCD-4s/WA22 and I wanted to thank all you guys that gave me advice on my current nirvana tube combo of WE422A, Sylvania metal base chrome top 6SN7s, and TS5998s. I tried to think hard while listening if there's anything soundwise that I could possibly want more and I'm stumped. Together with the Hugo 2 and Alo Audio reference cable, what I heard last night was probably 8/10 as good as what I heard from my 4s and the WA33/EMM Labs DA2 dac at CanJam to my ears. That WA33 combo with the new Abyss Phi was the best I've ever heard from a headphone. For my tastes it beat the Sennheiser HE-1 by a decent margin. Anyway, I couldn't have this experience without you guys so again, thank you!


----------



## Badas

kyle1010 said:


> I know this thread isn't so active these days, but I had one of those life changing listening sessions last night with the LCD-4s/WA22 and I wanted to thank all you guys that gave me advice on my current nirvana tube combo of WE422A, Sylvania metal base chrome top 6SN7s, and TS5998s. I tried to think hard while listening if there's anything soundwise that I could possibly want more and I'm stumped. Together with the Hugo 2 and Alo Audio reference cable, what I heard last night was probably 8/10 as good as what I heard from my 4s and the WA33/EMM Labs DA2 dac at CanJam to my ears. That WA33 combo with the new Abyss Phi was the best I've ever heard from a headphone. For my tastes it beat the Sennheiser HE-1 by a decent margin. Anyway, I couldn't have this experience without you guys so again, thank you!



Nice post.

I haven't been the nicest critic to the WA22 in the past. Sometimes for good reason. My amp new buzzed, spitted and hummed like mad. Tube changes made it sound nicer signature wise but all the buzzing and humming frankly pissed me off.

In the past 3-4 months I don't know what happened??? It's like it has turned over a new leaf or something. It has been amazing. I don't know if it needed stacks of hours to burn in or if my tubes have settled. Hard to tell. If I was going to guess I would say it's the transformers that need tons of hours on them. They have been getting steadily quieter and that makes a huge difference.

Anyhow. A while back I was seriously concidering kickin the WA22 to the curb with disgust. 
Now I see it as a important part of my system. I have new respect for it.


----------



## drbobbybones

kyle1010 said:


> I know this thread isn't so active these days, but I had one of those life changing listening sessions last night with the LCD-4s/WA22 and I wanted to thank all you guys that gave me advice on my current nirvana tube combo of WE422A, Sylvania metal base chrome top 6SN7s, and TS5998s. I tried to think hard while listening if there's anything soundwise that I could possibly want more and I'm stumped. Together with the Hugo 2 and Alo Audio reference cable, what I heard last night was probably 8/10 as good as what I heard from my 4s and the WA33/EMM Labs DA2 dac at CanJam to my ears. That WA33 combo with the new Abyss Phi was the best I've ever heard from a headphone. For my tastes it beat the Sennheiser HE-1 by a decent margin. Anyway, I couldn't have this experience without you guys so again, thank you!



I have that setup, but with the USAF 596 tube instead.  Definitely think it approaches the WA33, but not quite as powerful or holographic.  Still really awesome, and better than almost any other tube setup I have ever heard.  

The WA33 should be getting to me in a month or two and I can't wait to A/B it with the WA22


----------



## kyle1010

Badas said:


> Nice post.
> 
> I haven't been the nicest critic to the WA22 in the past. Sometimes for good reason. My amp new buzzed, spitted and hummed like mad. Tube changes made it sound nicer signature wise but all the buzzing and humming frankly pissed me off.
> 
> ...



I agree. I've had love/hate moments over this course of 15 months owning the WA22, but I feel like I believed in it and it's paying off in spades now. Oh hey finally had a listen to that V281 you have with AQ Nightowls. Long story short, I could count on one hand how many systems I didn't want to stop listening to at CanJam and that was one of them. So smooth, musical, and addictive. One of very few solid state amps I actually liked. 



drbobbybones said:


> I have that setup, but with the USAF 596 tube instead.  Definitely think it approaches the WA33, but not quite as powerful or holographic.  Still really awesome, and better than almost any other tube setup I have ever heard.
> 
> The WA33 should be getting to me in a month or two and I can't wait to A/B it with the WA22



I'm curious about that USAF 596 rectifier. I've read some reviews and impressions about it that are all positive, but I'm not sure it would fit my tastes the way the 422a does. What are your impressions of it?

And yeah you nailed it..that's exactly what I thought regarding our upgraded WA22s vs. WA33. More power and holographics with WA33 which was expected, but not by as much as I thought. Omg I'm so jealous you're getting a WA33. Did you order any other 2A3s with it? I'd go for it too, but I'm sidelining headphone system upgrades for a while to work on the living room rig.


----------



## drbobbybones

kyle1010 said:


> I'm curious about that USAF 596 rectifier. I've read some reviews and impressions about it that are all positive, but I'm not sure it would fit my tastes the way the 422a does. What are your impressions of it?
> 
> And yeah you nailed it..that's exactly what I thought regarding our upgraded WA22s vs. WA33. More power and holographics with WA33 which was expected, but not by as much as I thought. Omg I'm so jealous you're getting a WA33. Did you order any other 2A3s with it? I'd go for it too, but I'm sidelining headphone system upgrades for a while to work on the living room rig.



The USAF 596 is awesome.  I don't have a WE422A, so I don't know how much better or worse it is than the 596.  But compared to the Sophia Electric, PS Vane 422B replica, and Brimar 5Z4GY tubes, it has superior soundstage and bass definition.  The most complete sounding of all of my rectifiers, if that makes sense.  All of the others had some issues (Princess: thin low end but pretty, PS Vane: slightly weak bass and rolled off treble, Brimar: too slow and romantic overall), but the 596 is a winner.  I use a custom made Glenn adapter to make it fit.

The WA33 is incredible.  I had no intention of upgrading until I heard it at CanJam LA.  I ordered the KR audio tubes as well--those were what was on the demo model.  I haven't heard the Elite edition yet.  Not sure I would want to pay that much extra money to improve something that already sounds glorious.  I'm gonna use the WA33 as a preamp to feed a NuForce STA200 speaker amplifier and KEF LS50 speakers as well.


----------



## kyle1010 (Jul 20, 2017)

Oops


----------



## kyle1010

drbobbybones said:


> The USAF 596 is awesome.  I don't have a WE422A, so I don't know how much better or worse it is than the 596.  But compared to the Sophia Electric, PS Vane 422B replica, and Brimar 5Z4GY tubes, it has superior soundstage and bass definition.  The most complete sounding of all of my rectifiers, if that makes sense.  All of the others had some issues (Princess: thin low end but pretty, PS Vane: slightly weak bass and rolled off treble, Brimar: too slow and romantic overall), but the 596 is a winner.  I use a custom made Glenn adapter to make it fit.
> 
> The WA33 is incredible.  I had no intention of upgrading until I heard it at CanJam LA.  I ordered the KR audio tubes as well--those were what was on the demo model.  I haven't heard the Elite edition yet.  Not sure I would want to pay that much extra money to improve something that already sounds glorious.  I'm gonna use the WA33 as a preamp to feed a NuForce STA200 speaker amplifier and KEF LS50 speakers as well.



Interesting. I think I'm gonna have to find a 596 then. I have all those rectifiers you mentioned and yup spot on with their weaknesses. 422a probably isn't quite as fast as 596, but it makes up for it in overwhelmingly beautiful tonality and holographics. I really thought I was nuts for spending that much on one tube but I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Especially since WA33 will take it and eventually I'm gonna have to have that. But yeah once you get yours would you mind sharing what differences you hear with the KRs? I feel like I'd wanna keep the Sovtek 6C45 drivers in there instead of EH gold pins. Never liked those in my WA7tp..too flat sounding.


----------



## Usejimmy (Sep 28, 2017)

Hi

Im looking to upgrade the stock tubes on my WA22 and need some recommendations.

I would like to have some more Warmth and Bass Impact, i got so much Clarity Already 

The only one i changed so far is the Rectifier, and replaced it with Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B

Im now looking at some Power Tubes and Driver Tubes. Is this any good?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6AS7G-RC...d757d7a4c:g:MmQAAOSwDuJWuFFH&autorefresh=true

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Cod...373681?hash=item238cc1e8f1:g:DP8AAOSwR29ZCUxS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-NOS-NIB-V...50486?hash=item4d599a0f56:g:o8MAAOSwlY1ZE~mr#


----------



## abvolt

The RCA's are way over priced you can get a mullard 6080 for about 38. each and way better sounding than the 6as7's.  As far as the RCA 6080 again the mullard from Langrex.com beats them in sq by a big way. 6as7ga's are very plain sounding, also take a look at the 6BL7's are very nice..enjoy


----------



## kyle1010

Usejimmy said:


> Hi
> 
> Im looking to upgrade the stock tubes on my WA22 and need some recommendations.
> 
> ...



Oh I got this. First of all what headphones are you using? Secondly, get the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes. They’re about $300, but way worth it. Higher gain and more bass impact with more warmth and rich sound than stock but still very detailed. Ditch that Sophia unless you wanna show off the looks of it to friends. Save up and get a Western Electric 422a rectifier. There’s some that get close, but if you like a similar sound signature as I do(warm, detailed, 3D, impactful)just get the 422a and be done with it. I use Sylvania chrome top 6SN7s and they’re fantastic as far as midrange tonality and texture, but they’re super expensive at around $450/pair. So yeah, there’s plenty of cheaper alternatives that get the job done, but honestly I’d rather just get the good stuff and be done with it. With my tubes and Hugo 2 as dac, I’ve only heard a few systems that sound better as far as my preferences. Good luck!


----------



## abvolt

I'd agree the 5998's are excellent my favorites, also I didn't know the Sylvania chrome top 6SN7s  are that high priced now wow I got 2 pair of them can't remember what I paid not 450. that's for sure, Tube prices are indeed going up..enjoy


----------



## Usejimmy (Oct 7, 2017)

kyle1010 said:


> Oh I got this. First of all what headphones are you using? Secondly, get the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes. They’re about $300, but way worth it. Higher gain and more bass impact with more warmth and rich sound than stock but still very detailed. Ditch that Sophia unless you wanna show off the looks of it to friends. Save up and get a Western Electric 422a rectifier. There’s some that get close, but if you like a similar sound signature as I do(warm, detailed, 3D, impactful)just get the 422a and be done with it. I use Sylvania chrome top 6SN7s and they’re fantastic as far as midrange tonality and texture, but they’re super expensive at around $450/pair. So yeah, there’s plenty of cheaper alternatives that get the job done, but honestly I’d rather just get the good stuff and be done with it. With my tubes and Hugo 2 as dac, I’ve only heard a few systems that sound better as far as my preferences. Good luck!



I'm using Sennheiser HD 800S

I just bought 2x SYLVANIA 6SN7GTB CHROME TOP from ebay and paid $44 + shipping hope they are good ^^   How come you paid $450/pair ? that's a high price are mine not the same Chrome Top? http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-USA-SYLVANIA-6SN7GTB-CHROME-TOP-TUBES-The-same-batch/152683822699?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

The price for a Western Electric 422a is just Insane! what would be a good price to pay for one?

What about the PSVANE, are they any good or just New Hyped Stuff? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Psvane-...899702?hash=item2eea26b076:g:nOwAAOSwKtlWi3DB

Same goes for http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-Matche...313270?hash=item3612b87836:g:LhwAAOSw2gxYoI94

What about this Sopia?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sophia-Elec...886661?hash=item25e02dc805:g:6sEAAOSwEzxYeShi


----------



## Usejimmy

Is there any Huge difference in tonal sound performance between 6080 vs 6AS7, the design is totally different looking and i tend to like big cool looking tubes, my vote goes to 6AS7^^

Woo Audio did go for 6080 so i am just curious why


----------



## BillinSF

You might enjoy reading these two threads to get some info as to what to look for.  The good tubes are going to be $300-400 per pair for drivers and powers tubes and a little more a for a quality rectifier.  I am 100% on board with the WE422A rectifier and Tung-Sol 5998 power tubes as the best.  There is a big price variation for drivers (6SN7 or VT-231)  and you pick according to taste and budget.

Read the first couple of pages of each thread.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/


----------



## kyle1010

Usejimmy said:


> I'm using Sennheiser HD 800S
> 
> I just bought 2x SYLVANIA 6SN7GTB CHROME TOP from ebay and paid $44 + shipping hope they are good ^^   How come you paid $450/pair ? that's a high price are mine not the same Chrome Top? http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONE-USA-SYLVANIA-6SN7GTB-CHROME-TOP-TUBES-The-same-batch/152683822699?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> ...



No I’m using Sylvania metal base chrome tops. I should have specified that but I didn’t even know there was a black base version my fault. Let us know how those sound though! And yeah, the 422a price is nuts, but the way I saw it is I’d probably spend that much on other rectfiers through trial and error trying to find that perfect sound. So, why not just get one of THE best right away and be done with it..which it is and I’d spend that again in a heartbeat.


----------



## abvolt

Anyone here playing with inexpensive tube combo's, here's one that's simply amazing sounding, (power tubes) 6BL7, (Driver tubes) 7N7 needs adapters, (rectifier tube) 5Z3 needs adapter that's about 55. for the tubes & about 28. for the adapters and I bet even the guys who only buy the most rare tubes would like this combo plus when one dies get another for about 10..Have fun


----------



## kyle1010

abvolt said:


> Anyone here playing with inexpensive tube combo's, here's one that's simply amazing sounding, (power tubes) 6BL7, (Driver tubes) 7N7 needs adapters, (rectifier tube) 5Z3 needs adapter that's about 55. for the tubes & about 28. for the adapters and I bet even the guys who only buy the most rare tubes would like this combo plus when one dies get another for about 10..Have fun


Can you describe what each tube type does to the sound individually vs stock? And maybe what the combo all together sounds like through your LCD-3s?


----------



## abvolt

First of all for my power tubes my favorite is the holy grail of 6080's the TS 5998's their cost is like 175.-250. each. The 6BL7's (cost 10.-25.) are a high gain tube also with a very nice smoothness, it has a sweeter treble than most other 6080's (except for the mullard 6080).

For driver tubes the mullard ECC35's are the favorites, very well detailed in their sq but they are of course 400.+ a pair. That said the 7N7 driver tube gives great nuance to tones and also has an astounding detail and resolution to them, not as good as the rare tubes but for a 10.-25. tube still very enjoyable.

For rectifiers I have so many it's hard to say which is my favorite. The NU 5Z3 (it's like a type 80 so an adapter is needed) has a very smooth and deep low end very noticeable & enjoyable. This is one of  the main reasons I got the wa22, because of it's huge tube rolling possibilities. I don't remember what the stock tubes sounded like I sold them long ago. I have a very nice collection of rare tubes also for the wa22, but it's fun seeing how good I can get the wa22 to sound on a 150. tube set vs. a 16-1800. tube set.

You might also check out 6SC7 (adapter needed) & 6SL7GT's for driver tubes, I have a pair of brimar 6SC7's among my favorites for only 45.a pair hard to find but well worth it..enjoy


----------



## MIKELAP (Oct 6, 2017)

abvolt said:


> First of all for my power tubes my favorite is the holy grail of 6080's the TS 5998's their cost is like 175.-250. each. The 6BL7's (cost 10.-25.) are a high gain tube also with a very nice smoothness, it has a sweeter treble than most other 6080's (except for the mullard 6080).
> 
> For driver tubes the mullard ECC35's are the favorites, very well detailed in their sq but they are of course 400.+ a pair. That said the 7N7 driver tube gives great nuance to tones and also has an astounding detail and resolution to them, not as good as the rare tubes but for a 10.-25. tube still very enjoyable.
> 
> ...


What type of 6SC7 have you tried the ones with metal casing or the GT and which one did you prefer .These adapters are ok  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-pl...ter-adapter-/191341604228?hash=item2c8cd92d84     Thanks


----------



## abvolt

Hello Mike I have both glass & metal envelopes, the glass is much smoother, the metal almost has an ss sound to it, I enjoy both and yes that's the adapters you'll need. langrex.com has some really nice 6SC7GT by FIVRE around 28. each..


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> Hello Mike I have both glass & metal envelopes, the glass is much smoother, the metal almost has an ss sound to it, I enjoy both and yes that's the adapters you'll need. langrex.com has some really nice 6SC7GT by FIVRE around 28. each..


Think i will give them a go .Thanks for the infos .


----------



## Usejimmy

Will this be a great buy? http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAI...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## abvolt (Oct 7, 2017)

I've never seen them that cheap..


----------



## Usejimmy

abvolt said:


> I've never seen them that cheap..


Is that good or bad? I just bought them ^^ 

MATCHED PAIR and Unused he says! I dont know how to read if the tubes are good condition when he says..

15600-15200
16000-16200


----------



## Usejimmy

kyle1010 said:


> No I’m using Sylvania metal base chrome tops. I should have specified that but I didn’t even know there was a black base version my fault. Let us know how those sound though! And yeah, the 422a price is nuts, but the way I saw it is I’d probably spend that much on other rectfiers through trial and error trying to find that perfect sound. So, why not just get one of THE best right away and be done with it..which it is and I’d spend that again in a heartbeat.


Is this the Rectifier you are using in your setup?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Ele...002174?hash=item3af2d2c3fe:g:mp8AAOSwMVdYD17Y


----------



## kyle1010

Usejimmy said:


> Is this the Rectifier you are using in your setup?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Ele...002174?hash=item3af2d2c3fe:g:mp8AAOSwMVdYD17Y


Yup. That’s it, but $699 is too much to pay for it. I got it for $499 and it’s absolutely worth it.


----------



## abvolt

Usejimmy said:


> Is that good or bad? I just bought them ^^
> 
> MATCHED PAIR and Unused he says! I dont know how to read if the tubes are good condition when he says..
> 
> ...


 The 421a's have always been a little higher priced then the less premium 5998's..


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> Hello Mike I have both glass & metal envelopes, the glass is much smoother, the metal almost has an ss sound to it, I enjoy both and yes that's the adapters you'll need. langrex.com has some really nice 6SC7GT by FIVRE around 28. each..


About the sound signature of the 6SC7GT do they sound similar to anything else or have a sound of there own Do you think they  are worth it  since there is added cost of adapters to consider ? Thanks


----------



## abvolt

Hello Mike I'm currently listening to my Brimar 6SC7GT's, Their sound is really excellent almost like a TS 6C8G but smoother like say an ECC31, my current combo is GZ37 fat bottle,TS 5998, and the Brimar 6SC7GT. I'll admit it's definitely one of my favorite driver tubes. If you can find a source for either a Brimar or Mullard get them they do imo have the best sound of the 6SC7's, the Fivre is good also not as good though. If I run across some I'll let you know also on the adapters I got these -> .http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-pl...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

For me their worth having I'm getting tired of my TS 6C8G's also the 6F8G's RCA's, Sylvania, & some Ken Rad I guess I've gotten used to my ECC31,32,35's the others seem to all sound the same, The 6SC7's are a new sound I like, I'll say this if you can find a Brimar or Mullard set and don't enjoy them I'll buy them from you including the adapters..enjoy


----------



## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> Hello Mike I'm currently listening to my Brimar 6SC7GT's, Their sound is really excellent almost like a TS 6C8G but smoother like say an ECC31, my current combo is GZ37 fat bottle,TS 5998, and the Brimar 6SC7GT. I'll admit it's definitely one of my favorite driver tubes. If you can find a source for either a Brimar or Mullard get them they do imo have the best sound of the 6SC7's, the Fivre is good also not as good though. If I run across some I'll let you know also on the adapters I got these -> .http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-6SC7-CV1969-TO-6SL7GT-CV1984-VT229-6H9C-tube-converter-adapter/191341600322?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> For me their worth having I'm getting tired of my TS 6C8G's also the 6F8G's RCA's, Sylvania, & some Ken Rad I guess I've gotten used to my ECC31,32,35's the others seem to all sound the same, The 6SC7's are a new sound I like, I'll say this if you can find a Brimar or Mullard set and don't enjoy them I'll buy them from you including the adapters..enjoy


i found some Tung Sol 6SC7GT black glass possibly wanted to try those .As for the adapters that is usually where i buy them because these days you get decent shipping speed .To bad those adapters dont have the better quality CMC sockets .Those tubes are kinda rare ,i have a tube seller i do business with over here and he only had the steel casing ones and only 5 of them .will definitely  be looking out for those Brimars and Mullards thanks for the infos .


----------



## Usejimmy

I have been looking at some PSVANE and wondering if this can be used in WA22 without any sockets?

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair...%3A158a8c0b15f0a9c9b8cced0efffc2212%7Ciid%3A9

https://m.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-Psvane-...%3A158a8c0b15f0a9c9b8cced0efffc2212%7Ciid%3A8

https://m.ebay.com/itm/4pcs-Matched...%3A158a8c0b15f0a9c9b8cced0efffc2212%7Ciid%3A4

https://m.ebay.com/itm/1-PCS-Shugua...%3A1591df7e15f0a88f15449622fffd1f6a%7Ciid%3A2


----------



## abvolt

They can all be used just not sure on the EL34's I've never looked into them..


----------



## BillinSF (Oct 16, 2017)

Bump


----------



## abvolt

I just got an awesome deal on some Philips Miniwatt ECC35's my favorite 6SN7 variant I'll post some pics when I get them only paid 97.50 each + 10. ship an old friend sold them to me, wish he had more..enjoy


----------



## MIKELAP

Got 3 pairs of NOS Brimars 6SC7GT today but still waiting for the adapters should get here soon .


----------



## abvolt

Those are very nice boxes and all, does the seller have more..?


----------



## MIKELAP

Im afraid that's all he had and he only sells locally


----------



## MIKELAP

Received my adapters today for the 6SC7GT tubes Put in the BRIMAR's  and they sound very good in my WA22 and Grado's RS2E .


----------



## Badas

Usejimmy said:


> I have been looking at some PSVANE and wondering if this can be used in WA22 without any sockets?
> 
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-Psvane-UK-6SN7-HIFI-series-Vacuum-Tubes-CV181-EL34-/261756361473?epid=141000399&hash=item3cf1e51b01:g:nPwAAOSwm8VUzzcf&_trkparms=pageci%3A8786d9bc-b00b-11e7-be04-74dbd180e393%7Cparentrq%3A158a8c0b15f0a9c9b8cced0efffc2212%7Ciid%3A9
> 
> ...



They blow up dude. I know of two Woo's wrecked by them. 
WA5 and a WA22. WA5 had all the caps repaired. Not sure what happened to the WA22.

I wouldn't put Chinese tubes in my amp unless they were willing to buy my amp.


----------



## BillinSF

My response, which may be unpopular.  I do not mean insult or offense.

Buying a Woo WA22 is purchasing the best platform you can buy.  Looking at these cheap tubes is like a Ferrari owner buying gas at Arco, or tires at Big O.  
Save up for the good stuff.   Check the Reference 6SN7 thread on Head-Fi.  Drivers are $200-400 a pair.


----------



## abvolt

I say their are quite a few inexpensive tubes that are very good, one doesn't need to spend lots on rare tubes to get a good sound. An example might be say a pair of metal envelope 6SC7's 20-30., a Brimar  5Z4GY rectifier 35., maybe a pair of Mullard 6080's 80. that's under 150. for a really nice sound, tube rolling is one of best parts of owning a wa22..


----------



## abvolt

MIKELAP said:


> Received my adapters today for the 6SC7GT tubes Put in the BRIMAR's  and they sound very good in my WA22 and Grado's RS2E .


I'm happy you enjoy them I sure do & those Brimar's you got are the best I've seen, great find..


----------



## Usejimmy

How would you compare Ken Rad Black Glass 6SN7 against Mullard ECC32 ? the price is nearly the same.


----------



## leftside

Usejimmy said:


> How would you compare Ken Rad Black Glass 6SN7 against Mullard ECC32 ? the price is nearly the same.


Crikey the Ken Rad must have gone up a lot in price lately then. I'd choose the ECC32 any day as long as you can find a nice pair. A lot seem to have been well used.


----------



## kyle1010

Interesting thing happened the other day..wondering if you guys can confirm my suspicions. I’ve been running a Hugo 2 through my WA22 since September and haven’t loved it. Way too distant sounding, lean, scratchy highs, and just overall hollow signature. I was thinking, how? Tubes were my usual TS5998s, Sylvania metal base 6SN7s, and WE422A, good stuff right? Sounded incredible with Mojo as dac. So I tried Hugo 2 straight to the LCD-4s sans WA22 and voila, rich presentation is back, treble is more natural, other than note impact and lush tube euphonics it’s a win. So it must be the WA22 somehow. I swap in my cheapo Psvane stock rectifier and everything smooths out and sounds lovely. Huh? My thinking is that since Hugo 2 already presents a very wide soundstage and sparkling highs..that mixed with the WE422A doing the same thing to the sound was too much and things got weird and “out of phasey”? The Psvane was my most intimate and full sounding rectifier tube so maybe it was a balance thing? I’m shooting from the hip here I really have no clue. But now I have an expensive 422A sitting around that sounds like crap with my new Hugo 2 dac. Well, if I have to stick to full/intimate sounding rectifiers now, do you guys have any recommendations? Thoughts?


----------



## BillinSF

Well, these tubes are all 60-70 years old.  Sounds to me like the 422A may be worn out; they don't last forever. Just my humble opinion.


----------



## kyle1010

BillinSF said:


> Well, these tubes are all 60-70 years old.  Sounds to me like the 422A may be worn out; they don't last forever. Just my humble opinion.



Interesting. But weird that it would start sounding wack instantly the day I switched from Mojo to Hugo 2 as dac.


----------



## BillinSF

kyle1010 said:


> Interesting. But weird that it would start sounding wack instantly the day I switched from Mojo to Hugo 2 as dac.



I guess I misread your post.  Have no idea why DAC change alone would matter.


----------



## kyle1010

BillinSF said:


> I guess I misread your post.  Have no idea why DAC change alone would matter.



Yeah that’s the mystery. Wide dac + wide rectifier = too wide? Therefore hollow, lean, and unnatural sounding? Tubes are weird. Anyway, suggestions for an intimate/full sounding rectifier?


----------



## Badas

kyle1010 said:


> Interesting. But weird that it would start sounding wack instantly the day I switched from Mojo to Hugo 2 as dac.



I find DAC’s voltage really plays havoc with most Woo products. I’ve heard it on my WA22 and my mates WA5. There was a big discussion on it somewhere but I can’t find it now.
Pre-amping gets rid of the problem. Control the volume input. 
I use my V281 to preamp to my WA22. It cleans up the whole thing.

The issues I hear with this phenomenon is treble gets harsh and transitor sounding, things get lean.


----------



## Usejimmy

Have any one compared WE421A vs Tung Sol 5998 ? some say its the same, some say WE got better clarity and separation and Tung sol better low end kick?


----------



## kyle1010

Badas said:


> I find DAC’s voltage really plays havoc with most Woo products. I’ve heard it on my WA22 and my mates WA5. There was a big discussion on it somewhere but I can’t find it now.
> Pre-amping gets rid of the problem. Control the volume input.
> I use my V281 to preamp to my WA22. It cleans up the whole thing.
> 
> The issues I hear with this phenomenon is treble gets harsh and transitor sounding, things get lean.



Hmmm. Yeah I’ll try lowering the volume from Hugo 2’s line out level and see if that helps.


----------



## kyle1010

Usejimmy said:


> Have any one compared WE421A vs Tung Sol 5998 ? some say its the same, some say WE got better clarity and separation and Tung sol better low end kick?



I’ve never heard WE421A but the TS5998s definitely have excellent low end kick and are of higher gain than the stock WA22 tubes. They’re a little warmer sounding than stock as well.


----------



## attmci (Jan 5, 2018)

Usejimmy said:


> Have any one compared WE421A vs Tung Sol 5998 ? some say its the same, some say WE got better clarity and separation and Tung sol better low end kick?



On all amps, the WE421A performs better. Clear-top 5998/Chattham 2399  (bottom getter) is closer to a WE421A than normal ones (top getter).

What's your amp? For WA22, you may want to try those 6bx7 tubes too. I love those tubes. Even Matt don't think so. LOL


----------



## Usejimmy

attmci said:


> On all amps, the WE421A performs better. Clear-top 5998/Chattham 2399  (bottom getter) is closer to a WE421A than normal ones (top getter).
> 
> What's your amp? For WA22, you may want to try those 6bx7 tubes too. I love those tubes. Even Matt don't think so. LOL


This is my Setup


----------



## Usejimmy (Jan 6, 2018)

attmci said:


> On all amps, the WE421A performs better. Clear-top 5998/Chattham 2399  (bottom getter) is closer to a WE421A than normal ones (top getter).
> 
> What's your amp? For WA22, you may want to try those 6bx7 tubes too. I love those tubes. Even Matt don't think so. LOL


I just bought some new Tubes from Ebay, (5998) that's why i ask vs the (WE 421).
I am trying to get some more bass and soften the highs on my HD 800S
I hope i will like them all, if not i will be selling this Beauties again!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-ecc32-cv181-A-smoked-pair-of-early-1950s-black-bottom-copper-grid-post/322941293679?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECC32-VINTAGE-MULLARD-BLACK-BASE-MATCHED-PAIR-NOS-VALVE-TUBE/272726862587?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5998-TUNG-SOL-X-6-tubes-2-in-box-inv-westelect300b845211RCAgenacunningham437Ab/202159037321?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
https://www.ebay.com/itm/G44-Match-1-Pair-Tung-sol-6SN7-tube-same-ECC32-CV181-Tall-D-getter/252928010113?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## BillinSF

Usejimmy said:


> I am trying to get some more bass and soften the highs on my HD 800S



Ken-Rad VT-231 dark glass driver tubes (1940's) are known for really powerful, tight bass.


----------



## Usejimmy (Jan 6, 2018)

BillinSF said:


> Ken-Rad VT-231 dark glass driver tubes (1940's) are known for really powerful, tight bass.


That's what some told me and then some say the ECC 32 is the better one with higher gain and more Bass so i just bought 2 pairs of ECC 32
I'm still thinking about the Ken Rad


----------



## leftside

You should love those ECC 32's. They certainly don't seem to be going any lower in price. I'll sell mine one day, but not yet.


----------



## BillinSF

I bought some nice Mullard ECC33.  They really sound great, with nice bass.  I mean awesome sound reproduction and the high gain really makes my Senn's sing.  But I think they sound a bit too "solid state" for my taste.

I picked up a pair of Sylvania 6SN7W and those have slamming bass with more of the tubey sound I love.

Jimmy, I'm teasing you a bit, but when you first started posting, you were seeking budget tubes.  Now you are spending bigger bucks (as I humbly suggested, in spite of some group ridicule).  But, it's cool how great this WA22 can sound with the right tubes, huh?


----------



## attmci (Jan 7, 2018)

Usejimmy said:


> I just bought some new Tubes from Ebay, (5998) that's why i ask vs the (WE 421).
> I am trying to get some more bass and soften the highs on my HD 800S
> I hope i will like them all, if not i will be selling this Beauties again!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-ecc32-cv181-A-smoked-pair-of-early-1950s-black-bottom-copper-grid-post/322941293679?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> ...



You are moving way too fast into this tube rolling business/trap.


----------



## Usejimmy (Jan 8, 2018)

BillinSF said:


> I bought some nice Mullard ECC33.  They really sound great, with nice bass.  I mean awesome sound reproduction and the high gain really makes my Senn's sing.  But I think they sound a bit too "solid state" for my taste.
> 
> I picked up a pair of Sylvania 6SN7W and those have slamming bass with more of the tubey sound I love.
> 
> Jimmy, I'm teasing you a bit, but when you first started posting, you were seeking budget tubes.  Now you are spending bigger bucks (as I humbly suggested, in spite of some group ridicule).  But, it's cool how great this WA22 can sound with the right tubes, huh?


Teasing HAHA^^
When i changed the stock 6080 to WE421A i noticed that it sounded more open Clear and High End also needed to turn the volume up, compared to the 6080 that sounded slow and boring, but when i try different 6SN7 i do not notice much of a difference,
Comparing Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B  to WE422A, the Sophia sounded a little bit Slow and Harsh but its hard to remember the sound signature when you have to swap them out and let the warm up before use...



attmci said:


> You are moving way too fast into this tube rolling business/trap.


Maybe, but i have been reading so many forums the past mounts so i just gotta try it my self. I really want it to sound as good as it can and i'm willing to try some expensive tubes just to see for my self if its really that good.


----------



## Usejimmy (Jan 17, 2018)

Just received all the new Tubes and i'm really happy ^^
The Tung Sol's 5998 is really good and great condition with no Humm that my WE421 gives...mine is not perfect i guess
The ECC32 is really good to. think i'm gonna save them for the future ^^
The 6SN7 feels a little bit slow against the ECC32


----------



## abvolt

That's a really nice combo, have you ever tried the ECC35's ? excellent sounding..enjoy


----------



## dstubked

I don’t see ecc35 listed in the manual as a compatible tube..is it safe? side effects..?


----------



## abvolt

The ECC35 is imo the finest sounding 6SN7 variant, it is safe no adapters needed just plug & play, here's the Woo tube list enjoy.. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Zap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html#


----------



## dstubked

abvolt said:


> The ECC35 is imo the finest sounding 6SN7 variant, it is safe no adapters needed just plug & play, here's the Woo tube list enjoy.. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Zap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pub?hl=en&output=html#



Nice..what are the ecc35 variants that are recommended?


----------



## leftside

All of them


----------



## dstubked

leftside said:


> All of them



Nice..time to stock them up!


----------



## BillinSF

With all this tube rolling, don't forget to grab some socket savers.

https://vacuumtubesinc.com/index.ph...-tube-tester-sockets-from-excessive-wear.html


----------



## dstubked

Saw this for sale locally: ECC35 6SL7GT MULLARD NOS BRITISH VINTAGE VALVE AUDIO TUBE for S$0 https://sg.carousell.com/p/106340616

Anyone got any sound impressions on them?


----------



## abvolt

This is one of my favorites (I own 4 pairs)  among the 6SN7 variants I've never seen that site before so I can't say anything their, but the ECC35 is absolutely great sounding if you can get them at a good price do it you will love their sq..enjoy


----------



## dstubked

abvolt said:


> This is one of my favorites (I own 4 pairs)  among the 6SN7 variants I've never seen that site before so I can't say anything their, but the ECC35 is absolutely great sounding if you can get them at a good price do it you will love their sq..enjoy


Great thanks!


----------



## dstubked

Anyone using the WA22 with a Focal Utopia? Curious about your tubes combination.

I’m using a combination of WE421A for power / Sylvania 6SN7 bad boys for driver / GEC U52 as rectifier. Sounds awesome with my HD800s but it seem to sound a little too full with the Utopia.

Have a USAF 596 inbound from Ebay and currently sourcing for a nice pair of ECC35s..


----------



## Autostart (Feb 11, 2018)

Hello guys and gals. Doing a little cleaning and would like to offer a sets of tubes that I no longer use. Both work great and sound decent. Not my favorite so I will pass them on to someone if they can use them. You will need the 6SN7 to 6F8G adapters for these tubes.


TUNG SOL VT 163 1945

Note: one of the TS tubes has a tiny metal piece floating around inside but from my ears..... cannot tell the difference.

Does anyone use these adpater that might be interested in these tubes?


----------



## Autostart

VT 163


----------



## attmci

abvolt said:


> This is one of my favorites (I own 4 pairs)  among the 6SN7 variants I've never seen that site before so I can't say anything their, but the ECC35 is absolutely great sounding if you can get them at a good price do it you will love their sq..enjoy


Hey, where do you live?


----------



## abvolt

Unfortunately i'm in California should have moved when I was younger & had more money..


----------



## attmci

abvolt said:


> Unfortunately i'm in California should have moved when I was younger & had more money..


I was joking because you have four pairs of ECC35.

California is a nice place to live. I am in NJ, so I can feel your pain.


----------



## Slerpy

dstubked said:


> Anyone using the WA22 with a Focal Utopia? Curious about your tubes combination.
> 
> I’m using a combination of WE421A for power / Sylvania 6SN7 bad boys for driver / GEC U52 as rectifier. Sounds awesome with my HD800s but it seem to sound a little too full with the Utopia.
> 
> Have a USAF 596 inbound from Ebay and currently sourcing for a nice pair of ECC35s..


Curious what you settle on.
Just picked up a WA22 this week with stock tubes to power my Utopia.
Will be rolling WE422a and TS5998's first  (arriving next week).
5998's might be to hot for the phones but couldn't resist all the great reviews.


----------



## dstubked

Slerpy said:


> Curious what you settle on.
> Just picked up a WA22 this week with stock tubes to power my Utopia.
> Will be rolling WE422a and TS5998's first  (arriving next week).
> 5998's might be to hot for the phones but couldn't resist all the great



well..i sold the wa22 and the utopias and settled on a wa5-le with an abyss..never looked back!


----------



## Slerpy

dstubked said:


> well..i sold the wa22 and the utopias and settled on a wa5-le with an abyss..never looked back!


Less than 2 months and never looked back, huh?
Guess we can throw diminishing returns out the window after $4000 HP's and $2000 amps.
Congratulations.


----------



## dstubked

Slerpy said:


> Less than 2 months and never looked back, huh?
> Guess we can throw diminishing returns out the window after $4000 HP's and $2000 amps.
> Congratulations.



dude that post was in feb 2018. welcome to 2019!


----------



## Slerpy (Apr 10, 2019)

dstubked said:


> dude that post was in feb 2018. welcome to 2019!


You're right.  New Year.  New rig.


----------



## Dan Lee

If any of you tube rolling gurus are willing to offer me a little advice I would be very appreciative.  I am looking to have a set of tubes to achieve two different sound signatures.

1.  I want to hear a more bassy, and open 3 dimensional soundstage.  With this I want a euphonic/euphoric sound.  (I had an MJ2 for a while and had this sound with some WE and some OTK labeled tubes that was amazing)

2.  I want a very detail oriented sound that will pair nicely as preamp to my Carbon amp allowing the crystal clear crunch of rock and metal guitar to come through along with the beautiful snap sound made by a snare drum.

Not sure if these are realistic goals for this amp or not, but if they are I would genuinely appreciate the information.

Also have any of you heard the Ether 2's on this amp and if so how do you like them?

Thanks fellow headfier's


----------



## kyle1010

Dan Lee said:


> If any of you tube rolling gurus are willing to offer me a little advice I would be very appreciative.  I am looking to have a set of tubes to achieve two different sound signatures.
> 
> 1.  I want to hear a more bassy, and open 3 dimensional soundstage.  With this I want a euphonic/euphoric sound.  (I had an MJ2 for a while and had this sound with some WE and some OTK labeled tubes that was amazing)
> 
> ...



I can answer #1. That’s my preferred sound signature, so for the WA22 I used a Western Electric 422a (extremely 3D and detailed), Tung Sol 5998s(powerful, warm, and bassy), and some SUPER hard to find Sylvania metal base 6SN7s(outrageous midrange texture and clarity). Sorry, sold the WA22 before I could plug an Ether 2 into it but I have heard the E2s multiple times and they would sound fantastic on the WA22. Hope this helps


----------



## Dan Lee

@kyle1010 that helps alot.  Thank u very much.  Now i have a direction to go in for that sig.  Though the super rare may be hard to find and expensive.

No worries on E2 i am pretty confident it would sound good too.


----------



## Roasty

Favourite Rectifier? 

I have the following. 

Sophia Electric 274b
Brimar 5Z4G
RCA 5U4G
Emission Labs 5U4G

I quite like the Sophia and the RCA. The Brimar is very smooth up top but maybe a little boring that way.

The WE rectifier is very pricey... Have not considered going down that route..


----------



## Dan Lee

I think I may try the Sophia 1st cause its a good bit less expensive than the WE and some suggest it to be close to the sound.


----------



## attmci

Dan Lee said:


> I think I may try the Sophia 1st cause its a good bit less expensive than the WE and some suggest it to be close to the sound.


Don't waste your $.......Get a better tube if you want better SQ.

But I know it depends.


----------



## Roasty

I just sprung for a pair of mullard ecc35 on ebay. Heard they're good.

Anyone have experience pairing them with TS5998 / WE421A / Mullard 6080?


----------



## Dan Lee

@attmci you don't think the Sophia 274B is any good?  How bout the Brimar?  I will happily take as many recommendations as I can get.  I don't have endless money to spend on tubes, but I also don't want the sound to be equal to or less then the stock tubes.

Thanks


----------



## attmci

Dan Lee said:


> @attmci you don't think the Sophia 274B is any good?  How bout the Brimar?  I will happily take as many recommendations as I can get.  I don't have endless money to spend on tubes, but I also don't want the sound to be equal to or less then the stock tubes.
> 
> Thanks


According to your signature, you have a very good taste. So a WE422a is recommended for your 22.


----------



## Dan Lee

Thank you for the advice my friend I will look at those as well.  I have always liked WE's.


----------



## Dan Lee

So I have recently done some tube rolling and got a pair of Ether 2's which were my previous favorite pair of planars even over the LCD 4 (though in fairness I simply could have been one of the unlucky few to get a 4 in which the drivers werent as good as they were meant to be).  

My Ether 2 only came with single ended cables unfortunately.  I have in the past heard vast differences between SE and Balanced, but I am not familiar enough with the WA22 or any Woo products for that matter to know if it is worth getting a balanced cable to hear the difference.  Right now the E2's do sound good, but compared to the 009S they are noticeably flawed.  Perhaps this should be an obvious observation, but I do wonder if having a decent balanced would help all that much.

I was also wondering if any of you with the 2nd gen wa22's have by chance compared the preamp function of this amp to that of the Schiit Freya or Freya+?  I only ask because if I do end up running no planars then having the WA22 becomes less of a necessity.  Where the Freya + has a bypass feature, an auto shut off feature, a remote control, and would seemingly be a bit easier to roll tubes.


----------



## Dave01236

Hi everyone, I'm looking to buy a wa-22 in the future. I do know I absolutely have to buy upgraded tubes. The problem is, I'm a noob and I really don't know what to get. Some help would REALLY be appreciated. I will probably be willing to spend around $400 on tubes the day I will buy the amp, and maybe another 400 a few weeks later. My setup is the he 1000SE headphones, the yggdrasil DAC and for now I have the mjolnir 2 amp. 

So Im looking for an upgraded rectifier, upgraded driver tubes and upgraded power tubes. In all honesty all I want is the tubes to sound really good, a lot better than the stock tubes. I listen to metal music, only. So possibly some tubes that can give the wa22 some impact, some punch and some speed would be awesome.

I'm asking help to people that spent a lot on tubes, people that tried a lot of tubes out there. The thread is old but I hope people can still help me.  Thanks


----------



## Thaddy

I have been very satisfied with a few pairs of NOS Chatham 6AS7G bottom getter clear top power tubes ($40), RCA JAN 6SN7 Gray Glass preamp tubes ($100), and an RCA dual-bottom getter smooth plate 5R4GY rectifier.  With these tubes, the background is nearly as black as my GS-X Mk2, and the sound is a good improvement over stock, all for under $200.  The Chatham's were purchased a while ago, but the 6SN7 Gray Glass and RCA 5R4GY are recent purchases.  You don't have to start with the 5998's and WE 274B's.  I would suggest finding some low noise NOS tubes that test well, and they don't have to break the bank to sound good.


----------



## BillinSF

I have been away from my Woo for a few months.  Just played about 50 of my 60's through 80's songs.  Mostly through my PC with Tidal and a couple of NPR tiny desk concerts.  Concerts, funk and dance music.

Damn!  We are all so lucky to have this equipment.  My friend who was over could not believe the SQ.

Only tube comments are WE422A, TS 5998s and RCA early 40's gray glass VT-231 drivers kill it all.

Nice weekend to all.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

I have a WA22 on the way and have been looking through this thread. Looks lie for a more lush or "creamy" sound signature the RCA gray glass is a great bet. Is there a huge difference between the 1940's and 60's models, other than price?

1960s: https://tubedepot.com/products/rca-6sn7gt-gtb-black-plate?

1940s: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-Matched-RCA-JAN-6SN7GT-VT-231-WWII-Tubes-USA-1945/193415580206


----------



## abvolt

Congrats on your wa22 purchase you'll love their sound. With the wa22 there are a ton of variations in different tube combo's that's what really cinched the deal for me getting this amp.The rca @ tubedepot seems a little high priced to me you can find much better deals, The vt-231 on ebay is a good choice I own 2 pair they sound very good..enjoy your new amp.


----------



## koven

Relaxasaurus said:


> I have a WA22 on the way and have been looking through this thread. Looks lie for a more lush or "creamy" sound signature the RCA gray glass is a great bet. Is there a huge difference between the 1940's and 60's models, other than price?
> 
> 1960s: https://tubedepot.com/products/rca-6sn7gt-gtb-black-plate?
> 
> 1940s: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-Matched-RCA-JAN-6SN7GT-VT-231-WWII-Tubes-USA-1945/193415580206



Unrelated but I just watched some of your videos in your YT link. Keep up the good work and wish you success. WA22 is going to sound amazing w/ the headphones you have.


----------



## Relaxasaurus

koven said:


> Unrelated but I just watched some of your videos in your YT link. Keep up the good work and wish you success. WA22 is going to sound amazing w/ the headphones you have.


Many thanks! I'm having a blast doing these videos with my daughter 😁 Be sure to subscribe, have some fun stuff in the pipeline 😉


----------



## Zurv

Relaxasaurus said:


> I have a WA22 on the way and have been looking through this thread. Looks lie for a more lush or "creamy" sound signature the RCA gray glass is a great bet. Is there a huge difference between the 1940's and 60's models, other than price?
> 
> 1960s: https://tubedepot.com/products/rca-6sn7gt-gtb-black-plate?
> 
> 1940s: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NOS-Matched-RCA-JAN-6SN7GT-VT-231-WWII-Tubes-USA-1945/193415580206



*necro*

What did you end up getting?


----------



## whirlwind

Roasty said:


> I just sprung for a pair of mullard ecc35 on ebay. Heard they're good.
> 
> Anyone have experience pairing them with TS5998 / WE421A / Mullard 6080?


Not on this amp...but I have heard the tube combo on another amp many times.....5998 / ECC35   & Mullard 6080 / ECC35
You should be quite happy


----------



## Roasty

whirlwind said:


> Not on this amp...but I have heard the tube combo on another amp many times.....5998 / ECC35   & Mullard 6080 / ECC35
> You should be quite happy



Wow dude! I posted that in 2019 haha
The WA22 went to a new owner a while back...


----------



## whirlwind

Roasty said:


> Wow dude! I posted that in 2019 haha
> The WA22 went to a new owner a while back...


Ha....man this thread must not get much action....LOL


----------



## Zurv

Roasty said:


> Wow dude! I posted that in 2019 haha
> The WA22 went to a new owner a while back...


Can't fault the guy... playing catch up with Roasty gear is a full time job! (My personal fav for your gear is still those plastic panels to make cut outs.)
(also i nero'd this thread  sorry )


----------



## hillbilly559

I really like my new WA22, but was wondering what tubes I could look for that provide extended highs?

It's not that the amp is lacking on top, but probably more that my older ears sometimes crave more treble.


----------



## MIKELAP (Aug 25, 2021)

hillbilly559 said:


> I really like my new WA22, but was wondering what tubes I could look for that provide extended highs?
> 
> It's not that the amp is lacking on top, but probably more that my older ears sometimes crave more treble.


I really liked these,but you will need adapters


----------



## hillbilly559

Are those driver tubes?

Thanks


----------



## MIKELAP (Aug 27, 2021)

hillbilly559 said:


> Are those driver tubes?
> 
> Thanks


yes ,   i had 7308 written down so compatible with these here's a list of 6v. tubes


----------



## hillbilly559

That's cool, thanks!

I only had the tube list from Woo. I'll check these out.


----------



## MIKELAP

hillbilly559 said:


> That's cool, thanks!
> 
> I only had the tube list from Woo. I'll check these out.


These are tubes and adapters i am actually using as Driver's . First a 5670 to 6SN7 adapter with this adapter i can use (6385,5670,6N3P,6N26P,396A,) - 12AX7to 6SN7 adapter tubes used are 12AV7,6414,5965,12AT7,5814,5751,6201. - ECC88 to 6SN7 adapter tube used are 6DJ8,6H31PI-EB, 6922,6N6P,6FQ7,6GU7,6CG7,- Another adapter is the ECC31 to 6SN7 -  Also there's the 6F8G\6C8G to 6SN7 adapter - Rectifier adapter's 5Z3 to 5U4G -  RK60 to 5U4G Adapter . That should keep you busy .Have fun


----------



## hifixman

Seamaster said:


> For those of you own WA22 now. What tubes have you been rolling? Too busy to listen your Amp or too lazy to post?
> 
> All listening is done with only HD650 with Stefan AudioArt and Cardas Balanced cable .
> 
> ...


This thread still is going after 13 years thank you for starting it


----------



## alishafai

hifixman said:


> This thread still is going after 13 years thank you for starting it


I've pretty much stayed with the stock set. I spent money getting a TT2 to go along with the WA22.


----------



## Seamaster

After many years of burning Benjamin and gear changes, looking back at my old path with WA22, it was wild and crazy to try everything first-hand, experiences gained and benefit my entire Hi-Fi life, the WA22 was rather a learning tool to me than an instrument to enjoy music. There was a lots money wasted. WA22, sound quality wise, it is a mid-fi product by today's standard. Peace-out guys.

Low powered SET amp, or 300B driven 845 are the ways to go......


----------



## Seamaster (Jun 22, 2022)

Seamaster said:


> After many years of burning Benjamin and gear changes, looking back at my old path with WA22, it was wild and crazy to try everything first-hand, experiences gained and benefit my entire Hi-Fi life, the WA22 was rather a learning tool to me than an instrument to enjoy music. There was a lots money wasted. WA22, sound quality wise, it is a mid-fi product by today's standard. Peace-out guys.
> 
> Low powered SET amp, or 300B driven 845 are the ways to go......


And don't forget great OTL amps as well. Single ended all the way, balanced design is relatively unnecessary, because in a lots of cases, it adds technical correctness to the sound signature and takes away emotion and timbre.


----------



## hifixman

Seamaster said:


> Like I said Sometimes something is universal that everyone will love. Stock WA22 Vs. tubed-up WA22 just like Bose Vs. a nice pair of Tannoy. I take Tannoy anytime. Only using stock tubes with WA22, you really have no idea what you have missed, or you already missed everything.
> 
> I don't think when Jack and his father created WA22, to expect to sound this good. I did not expect this good for $2350 (preamp) or $1900 either. That is why I tried 12AU7 to find out what was their design goal, what they were trying to achieve, and tonal reference was. Larry tested the prototype which used 12AU7 with very good result. But after tube rolling, I can tell WA22 got new life. I am not a bass head by any mean. The "impact" thing is very hard to explain for a person use English as 3rd language. It makes you "feel" the music...... Someone help me here?
> 
> ...


could you graciously confirm which 12AU7 tubes specifically you were referring to? I'm new to tube rolling but I know I want more and better bass and dynamics.

Sincerely!


----------



## hifixman

tosehee said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *pedalhead* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


Any idea where to buy the adapter for 6F8G? TY TY


----------



## Seamaster (Jul 6, 2022)

hifixman said:


> could you graciously confirm which 12AU7 tubes specifically you were referring to? I'm new to tube rolling but I know I want more and better bass and dynamics.
> 
> Sincerely!


Sorry I can’t remember that was a loooooooong time ago but I can tell you that use 6SN7 instead 12AU7 family tube is a generally a good direction. Change the coupling caps or bypass them with something like jupiter copper foil caps is a cheaper and more effective way to improve your WA22 instead the expensive tube rolling. I remember the values of the two coupling caps are 0.22uf 600vdc, I don’t recall the minimal voltage rating requirement  for the amp because I don’t have the amp here with me (300vdc is probably enough) but 600vdc is a very safe bet, some caps with higher voltage rating sound better than lower voltage rating ones. Thanks!


----------



## VanHai

hifixman said:


> Any idea where to buy the adapter for 6F8G? TY TY


I bought them from here. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124331374783?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


----------



## jonathan c

Or from Woo Audio ($$ but amazing build):


----------



## nephilim32

I just got my WA 22 (2nd gen) today, but I’ll be using these to leap frog the stock tubes right off the bat. 
Doing the all Soviet line up. 

Rectifier— 5AR4 (Sovtek)
Power tubes— 6N13S (Sovtek) NOS
driver Tubes— Tungsol 6SN7 GTB 


Wish me luck. ☺️


----------



## nephilim32

My Thomson stock tubes (CSF 6080WA) look a little crooked. Lol. Just tube inspections right now. One of my 6080 tubes has a rattling noise like something is loose inside, however I can’t see any visible problems that something is ajar.
Oh well. Just gotta test it out…


----------



## nephilim32

My Thomson stock tubes (CSF 6080WA) look a little crooked. Lol. Just tube inspections right now. One of my 6080 tubes has a rattling noise like something is loose inside, however I can’t see any visible problems that something is ajar. 
Oh well. Just gotta test it out


----------



## Seamaster

nephilim32 said:


> My Thomson stock tubes (CSF 6080WA) look a little crooked. Lol. Just tube inspections right now. One of my 6080 tubes has a rattling noise like something is loose inside, however I can’t see any visible problems that something is ajar.
> Oh well. Just gotta test it out


Rattling is OK as long as they sound good,  also there is nothing you can do about rattling.


----------

